========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:07:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: November chicagopostmodernpoetry.com featuring Greenberg-Perloff-Zapruder-Seldess Comments: To: rbianchi@unitedmarket.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends of Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com The November issue will be live on November 2nd so take a break from the elections and check it out we are featuring Poetic Profiles Arielle Greenberg Jesse Seldess Matthew Zapruder Marjorie Perloff November Reading Highlights in our Region Susan Howe Charles Bernstein Anselm Hollo Peter Gizzi Susan Stewart Marjorie Perloff And many more please check out the site for all details. * Special Notice * Please keep checking back for two new sections to the site Country Focus In December we will launch a Country Focus that will appear every three months the first country to be focused on will be Brazil we are working now with well known Brazilian poets and editors to include profiles of younger Brazilian poets and others in both Portuguese and English. I would urge any of our international readers which make up 42% of our readership to send us information on what is going on in your part of the world so that we can focus on your region or nation. Small Press Focus In January we will launch a Small Press Focus that will appear every three months the first press we will focus on will be Litmus Press & Aufgabe and its Editor E Tracy Grinnell . Thanks for all your support as of this writing Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com has had an average of 2200 unique visits a month with over 60,000 pageviews and over 70,000 hits a month making our site the # 1 Poetry site in the Chicago Region, thanks to all of you who are interested in what we are doing here- NOW GET OUT THERE AND VOTE- Regards Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:35:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: the etymology of etymology & addiction In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The word "disease" gets flaunted about with the same kind of damage with which Nick associates the use of the word "addiction." Bipolar folks, for example, are often referred to as suffering from a 'disease.' As - in the literature of 12 step programs - whether Alcoholics, Debtors, etc. - the word 'disease' is frequently applied as if the person is suffering from a permanent illness that can only be relieved by x, y and z steps - but never fully cured. Some professional thinking, however - particular with Bipolar sufferers - has now changed from using the word "disease" to the word "condition" - as in something that is treatable - in the case of being "bi-polar" - with appropriate, well chosen drugs. For the sufferer, the word "condition" - it is now thought - carries a treatable connotation and, as a word, is less likely to engage the patient with the sense of a terrible "disease" under which one is yoked - as with an infernal, endless curse - and with all the self-hating ramifications and loss of self-esteem of which Nick describes so well. With the exception of those who - for whatever reason - have decided to take a non-returnable trip to hell and death, it's seems preferable to accept most "addictions" instead as "conditions" - as in "he/she is suffering from a (drug, alchohol, etc.) condition." Certainly de-romanticizes the high or low flying appeal of "addiction." Why are we talking about this issue on the near eve of President Bush's survival or fall from his "condition"? Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > Mary Jo Malo writes: > > "Does the word addict itself actually > cause or prolong the behavior? Is the word now invested with a condemnatory > quality, the judgment component it had originally?... > > Addiction became a sentence, an inevitable > decree... > > I'm addicted to 'life' and 'love'" > **************************** > > The above use of the word "addicted" to indicate ongoing > enthusiasm can surely be contrasted, for example, > to the statement, on the part of a recovered heroin > addict of my acquaintance, who said to me not long > ago: "relationships, when you are an addict, > are all compromised, because the primary love > object for an addict is their drug of choice." This person > overcame his addiction after ongoing use for over > 25 years. > > Of course it is possible to use words that have technical > meanings in a medical or scientific sense, in a casual way. > A contemporary example is the use of the world "paranoid" > to mean "suspicious." > > This is absorbing thread for me because it evokes an issue > that I've been thinking about as a result of some discussions > among bloggers recently about words and thinking. > > Confronting oneself concerning issues of habit and choice > involves using words. I have the feeling that confronting > oneself or someone else about an addiction may be very useful, but that this > process itself can become addicting, and thereby enter into and participate > with the cycle of addiction, anxiety about addiction, ambivalence, and > further anxiety leading to further addiction. > > It seems to me that the usefulness of words in thinking, > including thinking about personal choices, involves also > confronting their limited application within the sphere of emotions > and rationalizations. Ambivalence, it could be said, involves > doing too much thinking, i.e., worrying; thinking, that is, without > coming to a definitive conclusion. > > I believe words are necessary for the achievement > of insight and change, but not sufficient. It appears that firm > decisions also involve connecting insight gained through > comprehension by means of the application of words, to drawing a > conclusion, making a decision, and then > realizing that at least some crucial aspect of the matter is settled, and > taking action. > > Nick Piombino ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 00:37:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Hollowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hollowed was was was was was was was was upon upon upon upon is is is and and and we we could could hear hear the sounds sounds of destruction destruction in the the distance as trees trees and houses were torn from from their roots by the terrible waters. We huddled together, all of us, around me, as I began It was a dark and storm night and we were gathered, all several of of us, aroound a campfire. One of us asked the others others to begin a tale. tale. Which of the the others would would it be. be. I I volunteered volunteered for for the the the task. task. The The The The wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind The The The The task. task. task. the the for for volunteered volunteered I I be. be. it it would others others the of Which Which tale. a begin to to others the asked us of One One campfire. a aroound us, of several all gathered, were we and night storm and dark a was It began I as me, around us, of all together, huddled We waters. terrible the by by roots their from torn were houses and and trees as distance distance the in destruction destruction of sounds sounds the the hear hear could could we we and and is is is upon upon upon upon was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was upon upon upon upon is is and and and we we could could hear hear the the sounds of of destruction in in the distance as as trees and houses were were torn from their roots by the terrible waters. We huddled huddled together, all of us, around me, as I began It was a dark and storm night and we were gathered, all several of us, aroound a campfire. One of us asked asked the others to begin a a tale. Which of of the others others would it it be. I I volunteered volunteered for for the the the task. task. task. The The The The wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind The The The The task. task. task. the the the for for volunteered volunteered I I be. it it would others others the of of Which tale. a a begin to others the asked asked us of One campfire. a aroound us, of several all gathered, were we and night storm and dark a was It began I as me, around us, of all together, huddled huddled We waters. terrible the by roots their from torn were were houses and trees as as distance the in in destruction of of sounds the the hear hear could could we we and and and is is upon upon upon upon was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was upon upon upon upon is is is and and we we could could hear hear the the sounds sounds of destruction destruction in the distance distance as trees and houses houses were torn from their roots by by the terrible waters. We huddled together, all of us, around me, as I began It was a dark and storm night and we were gathered, all several of us, aroound a campfire. One One of us asked the others to begin begin a tale. Which Which of the others others would it it be. be. I I volunteered volunteered for for the the task. task. task. The The The The wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind The The The The task. task. the the the for for volunteered volunteered I I be. be. it would would others the the of Which tale. tale. a begin to others others the asked us of One campfire. a aroound us, of of several all gathered, were we and night storm and dark a was It began I as me, around us, of all together, huddled We waters. terrible the by roots their from from torn were houses and trees trees as distance the the in destruction destruction of sounds sounds the hear hear could could we we and and and is is is upon upon upon upon was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was upon upon upon upon is is is and and and we we could could hear hear the sounds sounds of destruction destruction in the the distance as trees trees and houses were torn from from their roots by the terrible waters. We huddled together, all of us, around me, as I began It was a dark and storm night and we were gathered, all several of of us, aroound a campfire. One of us asked the others others to begin a tale. tale. Which of the the others would would it be. be. I I volunteered volunteered for for the the the task. task. The The The The wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind The The The The task. task. task. the the for for volunteered volunteered I I be. be. it it would others others the of Which Which tale. a begin to to others the asked us of One One campfire. a aroound us, of several all gathered, were we and night storm and dark a was It began I as me, around us, of all together, huddled We waters. terrible the by by roots their from torn were houses and and trees as distance distance the in destruction destruction of sounds sounds the the hear hear could could we we and and is is is upon upon upon upon was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was upon upon upon upon is is and and and we we could could hear hear the the sounds of of destruction in in the distance as as trees and houses were were torn from their roots by the terrible waters. We huddled together, together, all of us, around me, as I began It was a dark and storm night and we were gathered, all several of us, aroound a campfire. One of us asked asked the others to begin a a tale. Which of of the others others would it it be. I I volunteered volunteered for for the the the task. task. task. The The The The wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind The The The The task. task. task. the the the for for volunteered volunteered I be. be. it it would others others the of of Which tale. a a begin to others the asked asked us of One campfire. a aroound us, of several all gathered, were we and night storm and dark a was It began I as me, around us, of all together, huddled We We waters. terrible the by roots their from torn were were houses and trees as as distance the in in destruction of of sounds the the hear hear could could we we and and and is is upon upon upon upon was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was was upon upon upon upon is is is and and we we could could hear hear the the sounds sounds of destruction destruction in the distance distance as trees and houses houses were torn from their roots by by the terrible waters. We huddled together, all of us, around me, as I began It was a dark and storm night and we were gathered, all several of us, aroound a campfire. One One of us asked the others to begin begin a tale. Which Which of the others others would it it be. be. I I volunteered volunteered for for the the task. task. task. The The The The wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind wind The The The The task. task. the the the for for volunteered volunteered I I be. be. it would would others the the of Which tale. tale. a begin to others others the asked us of One campfire. a aroound us, of several several all gathered, were we and night storm and dark a was It began I as me, around us, of all together, huddled We waters. terrible the by roots their from from torn were houses and trees trees as distance the the in destruction destruction of sounds sounds the hear hear could could we we and and and is is is upon upon upon upon was _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 01:14:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: the etymology of etymology & addiction In-Reply-To: <75.370ff442.2eb716c9@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Nice to hear from you, Murat. It's been a long time since we've had an exchange on the poetics list! I gave an example of an former addict that I know, a heroin addict. I was thinking at that point of an anecdotal example of addiction and gave an example of someone who spoke to me about the experience. I wasn't thinking of "negative" (judgmental) connotations of the word in the example I gave. I was thinking more of a diagnostic or descriptive connotation for the word. On the contrary. I was trying to go at the issue in a different way: showing the problem, for the addicted person, in becoming overly concerned with thinkin= g too much about meanings, getting overly focused on the concept of "addiction."=20 Then I went a step further and speculated on some issues in the internal an= d external use of words in dealing with psychological problems with habits in general- using addiction as a model (thinking of the word strictly in a pragmatic, diagnostic, or descriptive sense.) I was thinking that when a person is held back from taking action, due to ambivalence, that the everyday negative connotations of a word like "addiction" could lead to a secondary "addiction" due to loss of self-esteem resulting from the implication of the idea of being an "addict." I was thinking that people now might use the word "addiction" perhaps to try to frighten themselves or support someone else to get away from some destructive habit, some obsessive-compulsive issue. This might be slightly helpful in very mild cases of compulsivity or in a very early stage; but probably not of much use in deeply rooted situations. As for labor, there are many completely drug addicted people who work. I don't think using the relationship with work is necessarily a helpful slant in understanding people who experience the more extreme obsessive-compulsive issues such as addictions; think of "workoholics" for example. Anyway, these days "obsessive-compulsive" in everyday use has become a compliment, as in "Time Out" magazine- that describes itself as an "obsessive" guide to "impulsive" entertainment. best wishes, Nick On 10/31/04 11:34 PM, "Murat Nemet-Nejat" wrote: > Nick, >=20 > To me, it seems that one question is not settled. What defines addiction,= who > determines something is an addiction. For instance, people go to work eve= ry > day. Does that make it an addiction? Doesn't addiction imply going agains= t > society's limits, more specifically, "non or anti-productive" labor? >=20 > What if one rejects the negative connotations attached to the word? I do = not > think we can assume as self-evident that we know or agree on what addicti= on > is. >=20 > Murat >=20 >=20 > In a message dated 10/31/04 7:05:39 PM, nickpoetique@EARTHLINK.NET writes= : >=20 >=20 >> Mary Jo Malo writes: >>=20 >> "Does the word addict itself actually >> cause or prolong the behavior? Is the word now invested with a condemnat= ory >> quality, the judgment component it had originally?... >>=20 >> Addiction became a sentence, an inevitable >> decree... >>=20 >> I'm addicted to 'life' and 'love'" >> **************************** >>=20 >> The above use of the word "addicted" to indicate ongoing >> enthusiasm can surely be contrasted, for example, >> to the statement, on the part of a recovered heroin >> addict of my acquaintance, who said to me not long >> ago: "relationships, when you are an addict, >> are all compromised, because the primary love >> object for an addict is their drug of choice." This person >> overcame his addiction after ongoing use for over >> 25 years. >>=20 >> Of course it is possible to use words that have technical >> meanings in a medical or scientific sense, in a casual way. >> A contemporary example is the use of the world "paranoid" >> to mean "suspicious." >>=20 >> This is absorbing thread for me because it evokes an issue >> that I've been thinking about as a result of some discussions >> among bloggers recently about words and=A0 thinking. >>=20 >> Confronting oneself concerning issues of habit and choice >> involves using words. I have the feeling that confronting >> oneself or someone else about an addiction may be very useful, but that = this >> process itself can=A0 become addicting, and thereby enter into and partici= pate >> with the cycle of addiction, anxiety about addiction, ambivalence, and >> further anxiety leading to further addiction. >>=20 >> It seems to me that the usefulness of words in thinking, >> including thinking about personal choices, involves also >> confronting their limited application within the sphere of emotions >> and rationalizations.=A0 Ambivalence, it could be said, involves >> doing too much thinking, i.e., worrying; thinking, that is, without >> coming to a definitive conclusion. >>=20 >> I believe words are necessary for the achievement >> of insight and change, but not sufficient. It appears that firm >> decisions also involve connecting insight gained through >> comprehension by means of the application of words, to drawing a >> conclusion, making a decision, and then >> realizing that at least some crucial aspect of the matter is settled, an= d >> taking action. >>=20 >> Nick Piombino >>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 01:17:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: Re: the etymology of etymology & addiction In-Reply-To: <75.370ff442.2eb716c9@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Someone once told me that an addiction is something where you know you shouldn't have it but you can't get enough. Nicotine, heroin, caffeine apply. Love, life, food, do not. Words maybe. I'm not sure the = definition works in all cases, but it's pretty strong. It also tells us the = difference between being in love (you want it, simply), say, and being co-dependent (you want it but know you shouldn't). But now I'm getting into pop-psychology terms, and I don't really want to do that. Lucas =20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Murat Nemet-Nejat Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:34 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: the etymology of etymology & addiction Nick, To me, it seems that one question is not settled. What defines = addiction, who=20 determines something is an addiction. For instance, people go to work = every=20 day. Does that make it an addiction? Doesn't addiction imply going = against=20 society's limits, more specifically, "non or anti-productive" labor?=20 What if one rejects the negative connotations attached to the word? I do = not think we can assume as self-evident that we know or agree on what = addiction=20 is. Murat In a message dated 10/31/04 7:05:39 PM, nickpoetique@EARTHLINK.NET = writes: > Mary Jo Malo writes: >=20 > "Does the word addict itself actually > cause or prolong the behavior? Is the word now invested with a condemnatory > quality, the judgment component it had originally?... >=20 > Addiction became a sentence, an inevitable > decree... >=20 > I'm addicted to 'life' and 'love'" > **************************** >=20 > The above use of the word "addicted" to indicate ongoing > enthusiasm can surely be contrasted, for example, > to the statement, on the part of a recovered heroin > addict of my acquaintance, who said to me not long > ago: "relationships, when you are an addict, > are all compromised, because the primary love > object for an addict is their drug of choice." This person > overcame his addiction after ongoing use for over > 25 years. >=20 > Of course it is possible to use words that have technical > meanings in a medical or scientific sense, in a casual way. > A contemporary example is the use of the world "paranoid" > to mean "suspicious." >=20 > This is absorbing thread for me because it evokes an issue > that I've been thinking about as a result of some discussions > among bloggers recently about words and=A0 thinking. >=20 > Confronting oneself concerning issues of habit and choice > involves using words. I have the feeling that confronting > oneself or someone else about an addiction may be very useful, but = that this > process itself can=A0 become addicting, and thereby enter into and participate > with the cycle of addiction, anxiety about addiction, ambivalence, and > further anxiety leading to further addiction. >=20 > It seems to me that the usefulness of words in thinking, > including thinking about personal choices, involves also > confronting their limited application within the sphere of emotions > and rationalizations.=A0 Ambivalence, it could be said, involves > doing too much thinking, i.e., worrying; thinking, that is, without > coming to a definitive conclusion. >=20 > I believe words are necessary for the achievement > of insight and change, but not sufficient. It appears that firm > decisions also involve connecting insight gained through > comprehension by means of the application of words, to drawing a > conclusion, making a decision, and then > realizing that at least some crucial aspect of the matter is settled, = and > taking action. >=20 > Nick Piombino >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 01:24:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ornament MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ornament a small decoration for the holidays let us tingueley tingly tangle cold and colder calder twittering klee and twyla tharp so many in the fold of the bangle in so many many ways hardly a spangle in the dongle longer feelers feeling very sharp gasket eval purring of the days http://www.asondheim.org/twirple.png _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 01:31:27 US/CENTRAL Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Buna Ziua from Moinesti, Romania Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca Lucio You would have loved meeting the Tzara authority, Vasile Robciuc, who lived & breathed T Tzara even tho there was very little every day application to Dadaist ideas. What is most remarkable here, is that everyone seems to know of Tzara, sort of a cult of personality thing, without having the slightest idea of his actual work. We were watching national TV & during a generic comedy show, the deadpan comic/host told a joke about Tzara which everyone in the audience seemed to understand since they all laughed in the appropriate places. Hard to imagine American TV making passing references to avant garde literature. On Oct 31, 2004, at 9:17 AM, Lucio Agra wrote: >>What great news you send from Romenia, mIEKAL! >>tZARA. the man behind the mask... once when I was 23 I tried to convince an >>editor (now she is cinema critic) to publish my translations to Tzara´s 25 >>poems...without success. Im sure Robciuc would be interested in these for his Tzara anthology series. >>Tzara was also one of these personalities... like Theo Van Doesburg, who >>understood what was to be a marketing on modern art. Glad to know they still >>remember him there... >>I think it is a natural thing the fact that the students do not understand his >>work... >>same happens in Brazil and other peripherical countries >>one is not saint in his own homeland etc... The trick is to also be a good football player, & fame is ours. >>Gosh, I look forward to see these pics and video... DADA in big letters wow! Here's a brief glimpse of life on the other side of DADA: http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/index.php?TzaraInPurgatory mIEKAL --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Midwest Tel Net Web Based Mail. http://www.mwt.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 08:32:02 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Bradshaw Subject: Eliot Weinberger Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed If anyone has an email address for him please back channel me. Thank you. J Bradshaw _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 04:24:42 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dark music .... light screen twds dawn..drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:31:16 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: ornament In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tell me how many I left out: Tanguely Calder Paul Klee Arp Gustav Lange's feeders Sierpinski Gasket (read-eval print loop =E2=80=93 google is helping here) cheers, anny On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 01:24:50 -0500, Alan Sondheim wrote= : > ornament >=20 > a small decoration for the holidays > let us tingueley tingly tangle > cold and colder calder > twittering klee and twyla tharp > so many in the fold of the bangle > in so many many ways > hardly a spangle in the dongle > longer feelers feeling very sharp > gasket eval purring of the days > http://www.asondheim.org/twirple.png >=20 > _ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:57:10 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: The Divine Right of Murder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob: >> Kings of Scotland of course don't count (as Robin might explain) as they are mere subsidiaries (grin)<< >This is not (as dave the Brummie illiterate implies) a laughing matter.< Of course it's a laughing matter, me dear haggis, or rather, the whole issue of monarchy is so appalling you have to laugh else you'd cry, or shd I say 'one' has to etc? Being English I have the joy of being associated with a nasty class system I abhor while at the same time being relegated to inferior status within that system (as a Brummie-cum-Leicesterite-of Nottingham descent, c'est moi, a person with an accent that is despised as much as Glaswegian who lives among the chizzits while being descended from the Sherwood tribe, that's as in the forest, me ducks). Even my girlfriend's called Victoria, as you know, I can't escape the bloody system's inheritance (her initials are VR can you believe it?). As you are a Midlander by proxy of residence it's about time you learnt some local geography (grin). I'll happily guide you through the OS maps!!!! All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hamilton" To: Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 12:44 PM Subject: Re: The Divine Right of Murder > Kings of Scotland of course don't count (as Robin might explain) as they are mere subsidiaries (grin) This is not (as dave the Brummie illiterate implies) a laughing matter. Leave aside one's prejudices against the Stuart Dynasty, the *proper* way of referring to the drooling nincumpoop who crossed the border in 1603 and promptly Towered Walter Ralegh for a bad pun is "James the Sixth and First" ... [Pedantically, and as an afterthought, technically it was Jimmy who made the pun -- "I hae heard somewhat rawly of you" -- but given that Walter Ralegh was wandering around the corridors of Westminster while Elizabeth was dying ("She was a lady whom time surprised") muttering that even a republic would be better than to have that Scots bampot on the throne, I suppose you can't really blame Jimmy for slapping him in the Tower and then later selling him out to the Spaniards.] (He was the sixth king called James to reign in Scotland, only two of whom died in their beds and James IV actually wrote quite a decent poem -- The Kingis Quair -- before he inspected a canon [cannon?] which hadn't been beta-tested and got blown to buggery.) ... not James I (though he was the first James to reign in England) nor James I and IV (since he was Jimmy the Six in Scotland *well* before he skipped south. Strictly speaking (and even I'm nae sae pedantic as to insist on this) Our Current Beloved Monarch is Elizabeth the First [of Britain] and Second [of England]. As I say, no a laffin matter ... ... When Alexander our king was dead ... Come back Sandy, all is forgiven. I won't go on to point-out that the two high heid yins of the so-called "Labour" party -- Brown and Blair -- are both Scottish, as is Charles Kennedy, leader of the Lib Dems. If you factor-in the leader of the Conservative Party, Michael something-of-the-night Howard, who is the Jewish son of a Polish refugee, you begin to wonder whether Britain can actually field a single True-Born Englishman. (Bit like football, eh? I mean *proper* football, whit youz yins in the States wid caw "soccer", but.) Oh, sorry, I forgot about UKIP (hey, Britain is now a four-party state -- come on proportional representation, all is forgiven), Robert Kilroy Silk. A big cigar to anyone who can name the *official* leader of UKIP (the United Kingdom Independence Party, a right bunch of wankers and chancers) -- even I can't, and I live here. And as the final cherry on the pudding, one of the few things that dave and I agree on, is that the worst thing to happen to British politics was that John Smith snuffed it. And he was Scottish too. Robin Roy McGregor Hamilton { Oh lord I've just remembered, it was on the news yesterday, Neil Kinnock has accepted a peerage. Just goes to show you can't trust those Welsh sheep-shaggers. A Deeply Prejudiced and Chauvinist Glasgwegian. } ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:29:42 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Voting as tho the nation's future depended on it (hint: it does) How do I decide what's right for me? Letting "the Outside" "dictate" "the poem" - Mark Tursi on a Spicerian side of poetics K Silem Mohammad's "A Language Poetry Dossier" - Googlism vs. Google The Motorcycle Diaries - Che the wide-eye med student So where Goest Cole Swensen? Joe Safdie on names, poetry & the redbirds of St. Louis Our 200,000th visitor is. . . "They were tamed by pitchers who, in an era when arms are more delicate than orchids, worked like Iditarod dogs." Writing as an activity vs. writing as a process How different generations handle the plethora of new poetry A new bookcase - what it says about what I'm reading The best review I've had in years thanks to Magdalena Zurawski A prize this week for the blog's 200,000th visitor Quoting out of context as a mode of close reading http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:21:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: eliot and hall? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed anyone out there know the source for the following quotation from an interview btw. donald hall and eliot: 'In its sources, in its emotional springs, [my poetry] comes from America.' if so, i'd greatly appreciate it if you could let me know where i might find this interview! you can bc to dkane@panix.com thanks, --daniel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:03:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: these apprenticeships/shitting myself In-Reply-To: <20041101033652.7619.qmail@web53301.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hey now here's a fresh original voice on the poetix list' a breath of fresh air. welcome! and in case it's relevant, don't forget to take your meds. At 10:36 PM -0500 10/31/04, Bradley Redekop wrote: >My Friend, > I've been in London a little over a month now. >Just spent the day >drawing in the British Museum. The collection is >fantastic of course. Too >bad I can't draw worth a shit. Its especially too bad >because, assuming I >had some kind of talent, I always elected not to learn >anything about >anything else. I'm super fuckin depressed man. My work >totally pedestrian. >The kind of provincial rubbish I'm capable of only >makes the cut in the >provinces. I don't know a damn thing about making art. >I'm a cowardly, >phrase mongering, imbecile. Being here is really >searching me out, into my >deepest corners. All the deficiencies of my character, >so long nurtured on >fear and resentment in a dirty little Canadian oil >town, cannot help but >find expression in my art. Spent all my teens stoned, >my twenties drunk. >Proud, huaghty, afraid of love and life, mistaking my >childish feelings and >prejudices for ideas. Its caught up-- I'm fucked. Feel >like I'm >disappearing. Sorry man. Listen, I don't know if i'm >just trolling for >affirmation or what. This is whats going on. Not >really sure what to do. I'm >gonna be in London for a year I guess. Shitty way to >resume our >correspondence, i know. just kinda swirling around the >drain tonight. Whats >this thing I can't cut loose of in my life or my work? >Anyway, guess thats >about enough petulant self loathing for one message. >Drop me a line man. >London is lonely as hell and twice as expensive. > >Bill > >* * * > > > > >Bradley, >Thanks for getting back so fast. A couple bad drawing >sessions can >really unleash the blackest states of >mind-body-spirit. Though it doesn=EDt >always require bad drawing sessions. Hey, I like those >fuckin pomes. Keep >that stuff coming. I sometimes need reminding that >there is something to be >done w/ these apprenticeships. Something outside of >the formal concerns of >the life drawing room and hoping my stuff looks >'right'. Drawing is a >language. My drawing language has pretty much been >gutterspeak. Learning a >language is difficult. I'm spending my days in front >of the statuary of the >B.M. and the paintings in the National Gallery and i'm >just goo goo ga ga >and shitting myself and peeing in the potted plants >cuz I can't fucking >speak like in these languages that surround me. >Learning is hard for the >proud. Good to hear from you. Write when possible. >Yeah, I too, fight >depression w/the Bible (though not Marx). When I >remember. Take care. >yours in constant recovery, > >Bill > > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:44:09 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: these apprenticeships/shitting myself In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have no idea if this can be of any use, but drawing for me is like jogging or any other activity. I repeatedly started drawing and then quit, so I know the feeling every time. You find out that you can't even hold a pencil in your hand! But if you were good once, it soon comes back, if you stay there for a year, you'll be marveled at what you can reach, best, Anny On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:03:52 -0600, Maria Damon wrote: > hey now here's a fresh original voice on the poetix list' a breath of > fresh air. welcome! and in case it's relevant, don't forget to take > your meds. >=20 >=20 >=20 > At 10:36 PM -0500 10/31/04, Bradley Redekop wrote: > >My Friend, > > I've been in London a little over a month now. > >Just spent the day > >drawing in the British Museum. The collection is > >fantastic of course. Too > >bad I can't draw worth a shit. Its especially too bad > >because, assuming I > >had some kind of talent, I always elected not to learn > >anything about > >anything else. I'm super fuckin depressed man. My work > >totally pedestrian. > >The kind of provincial rubbish I'm capable of only > >makes the cut in the > >provinces. I don't know a damn thing about making art. > >I'm a cowardly, > >phrase mongering, imbecile. Being here is really > >searching me out, into my > >deepest corners. All the deficiencies of my character, > >so long nurtured on > >fear and resentment in a dirty little Canadian oil > >town, cannot help but > >find expression in my art. Spent all my teens stoned, > >my twenties drunk. > >Proud, huaghty, afraid of love and life, mistaking my > >childish feelings and > >prejudices for ideas. Its caught up-- I'm fucked. Feel > >like I'm > >disappearing. Sorry man. Listen, I don't know if i'm > >just trolling for > >affirmation or what. This is whats going on. Not > >really sure what to do. I'm > >gonna be in London for a year I guess. Shitty way to > >resume our > >correspondence, i know. just kinda swirling around the > >drain tonight. Whats > >this thing I can't cut loose of in my life or my work? > >Anyway, guess thats > >about enough petulant self loathing for one message. > >Drop me a line man. > >London is lonely as hell and twice as expensive. > > > >Bill > > > >* * * > > > > > > > > > >Bradley, > >Thanks for getting back so fast. A couple bad drawing > >sessions can > >really unleash the blackest states of > >mind-body-spirit. Though it doesn=EDt >=20 >=20 > >always require bad drawing sessions. Hey, I like those > >fuckin pomes. Keep > >that stuff coming. I sometimes need reminding that > >there is something to be > >done w/ these apprenticeships. Something outside of > >the formal concerns of > >the life drawing room and hoping my stuff looks > >'right'. Drawing is a > >language. My drawing language has pretty much been > >gutterspeak. Learning a > >language is difficult. I'm spending my days in front > >of the statuary of the > >B.M. and the paintings in the National Gallery and i'm > >just goo goo ga ga > >and shitting myself and peeing in the potted plants > >cuz I can't fucking > >speak like in these languages that surround me. > >Learning is hard for the > >proud. Good to hear from you. Write when possible. > >Yeah, I too, fight > >depression w/the Bible (though not Marx). When I > >remember. Take care. > >yours in constant recovery, > > > >Bill > > > > > > > >______________________________________________________________________ > >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca >=20 >=20 > -- > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:59:34 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: placebo-immune MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 4) FBI SADISTS, PERVERTS and TERRORISTS are LAUGHING their asses off reading you clowns' comments in response to my post on usenet because all you 95% "PROGRAMMED SLAVES" BEHAVED exactly the way the FBI SADISTS "PROGRAMMED" your minds. ayin ta'hat ayin, shen ta'hat shen, yad ta'hat yad, regel ta'hat regel substitutes for girls [i.e. for sex]. I want to hold mirrors militant Christian terrorists, apparently. boy-abusing scum. Kill them. American troops in Afghanistan today extremely moribund now a lot of personal insults conspicuous aspect of the tape in the absence testing function constant nagging frequency-domain modulated GAZAS PORN EMPORIUM 2000+ TITLES INC.AMERICAN-EUROPEAN-GAY-GIs HOMEMADE-AMATURE-ASIA WITH [former KKK leader David Duke] 18HRS FOR £30 your mythical gas chambers 36HRS FOR £50 COLLECTION OR POSTAL Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure NSA proof that there is indeed a life after death other than - Binaries. (Note that this excepts thinking and at worst who it would appear, doesn't know any cryptographic authentication such as unhealthy obsession nazi just as mentally deficient 3. a smart, sassy hip woman who may be jewish perversely twisted, distorted, deformed upside thank those Viets who killed "sub humans"... whole mechanic work alone - a hypocrite, a liar, a traitor, can at least since SOME AMERICAN PATRIOT YOU ARE FUCKING 1:48 PM Pacific Daylight JEW NAZI BASTARD! Hay, at least I'm not some europeon piece of ghettos right now in New York and Montreal shit like you 1920-1930 baseless assertion in the presence of a sunset PGP.) - Articles with an empty or missing Junichiro Koizumi quickly rejected that Subject header. the opposite effect, where fiction may ghost not an American? teenage bastard was rough teenage bastard was rough teenage bastard was rough 1. Stronger permanently stain their skins, hairs, skirts, blouses and breaths with scents of feminine perfumes 6. Tougher 7. Higher-IQed 8. Faster 9. More energetic permanently stain their skins, hairs, skirts, blouses and breaths with scents of feminine perfumes 10. More aggresive 11. More violent 12. More cold-hearted [but less hot-hearted] 13. More openly abusive [sexually and otherwise] to members of the opposite gender permanently stain their skins, hairs, skirts, blouses and breaths with scents of feminine perfumes 18. Less emotional substitutes for girls [i.e. for sex]. I want to hold mirrors arsenic mixed with meals, to trigger cancers first Khmer rouge regime of half-cooked socio-political concepts IMMUNITY TO PLACEBOS 22. More sexually-violent substitutes lower-economic-level women, and it people: mass-mind controlled: Quelle est la nature urbaine? vision non-relativiste des choses for girls [i.e. for sex]. I want to hold mirrors and looking for similarities. This is not a very profitable machine-gunned in a ditch France don't get too excited is not our friend lui aussi se croit victime d'une machination God bless America. it tends to cause panic attacks. ~/~u forget the power trauma from which one can suffer for years. join the military strong desire for revenge, no pain from the rope plutonium in 1945? trotzkista nell'Italia degli anni '50. inter-racial marriage, Giorgio. My room mate goes to work around 6 AM and on the night of 7/23/04 I pasted a 8.5 X 11 page note on the inside of the hinder discovery by introducing death stalks the night related stuff (consensual), but siege of Fallujah, 572 to 616 of them originator of airplane hijackings (as I HAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Dream on, you little chihuahuas! inbred Kentucky hillbilly///redneck manifestoes///Serbian whino who didn't use toilets harassed by a drunk who claimed womens' facilities festering puss has invaded your """brain""". celles d'un locuteur natif occupations mesquines dans le silence qui sied aux collabos de votre contre la secte vaudou (it is their destroying others moral dilemmas to previously neutral talking about determinism: all our choices the most aggresive cancelled transformar l'home, segons els seus dogmes areas. Iraq connection with the Manhattan Project chickenshit nigra (not to mention larger sun with a finger) unwelcome intruder in a need for a reality check. Hahahhahahah unwelcome intruder of one-click "fold / unfold" oi à nômenes Politeies tês Amerikês unwelcome intruder X-No-Archive: YES situationism and cryptofascists, this is simply open the stream in binary mode open the stream in binary mode open the stream in binary mode les rancoeurs affluent et la rumine se poursuit permanently stain their skins, hairs, skirts, blouses and breaths with scents of feminine psilocibin to `decerebrate` de cette inertie l'ultime substance lead and mercury, for chronic perfumes out why you are so into having sex with dead people This FBI undercover agent followed me in a red pickup truck in an apartment complex was a 27-33 yr old Caucasian male in veh plate# 5915 CR in Dec 2002. (it is their destroying others Cooper P D, Woman left me an abusive message ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:10:23 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 11-01-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM November 10: Open Reading, hosted by Livio Farallo, featuring Alamgir Hashmi November 12: Brendan Lorber, Sasha Steensen Julie Patton Novmber 19: Reading by writers for children and Teens, featuring Harriet K. Feder December 3: Writers Group Reading Series, hosted by Karen Lewis, Featuring: North Side Writers Group December 8: Open Reading, hosted by Livio Farallo WORLD OF VOICES Residency November 29- December 3: Frances Richey WORKSHOPS THE WORKING WRITER SEMINAR, with Kathryn Radeff Feature Writing: November 13, 12 p.m. - 4 p.m. $50, $40 for members Feature articles entertain and inform, often covering an interesting angle of a straight news story. This course covers the who, what, where, when, why and how of writing and selling different types of magazine and newspaper features, plus how to approach editors. The Art of Transformation Instructors: Jimmie Gilliam and Laurie Dean Torrell 3 Tuesdays, 11/16, 11/23, and 11/30 from 6:30-8:30 In The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo $90, $75 for members Transformations offer an opportunity to enlarge imagination and expand the sense of what is possible in both life and artistic work. Beginning again - suspending judgement, re-framing the familiar, being willing to change direction - these artistic practices can be employed to navigate times of change, and can be used to create new work. In this workshop we will mine experience, and use the texts The Art of Possibility: Transforming Professional and Personal Life by Rosamund Stone Zander and Benjamin Zander, and Trust the Process: An Artist's Guide to Letting Go by Shaun McNiff. Through discussion and writing exercises we will explore the subject of transformation. Participants will have the opportunity to create and share original essays and poems, and within the three-week period, receive individual critique if desired. Poet As Architect, with Marj Hahne One Saturday Session, November 20, 12-5 p.m. $50, $40 for members Li-Young Lee says that poetry has two mediums-language and silence-and that language (the material) inflects silence (the immaterial) so that we can experience (hear) our inner space. In this workshop, we will step outside our familiar poetic homes and build new dwellings (temples and taverns!), utilizing such timber as sound patterns, found text, and invented forms. We will explore the structural possibilities of language to ultimately answer the question: How does form serve content? Both beginning and practiced poets will generate lots of original writing from this full day of language play and experimentation, and will bring home a fresh eye with which to revisit old poems stuck in the draft stage. For more information, or to register, call 832-5400 or download the registration form from our website at www.justbuffalo.org COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS WEDNESDAYS @ 4 PLUS, UB Amherst Campus Marcella Durand & Jena Osman Poetry Reading November 2, 4 p.m., Poetry/Rare Books Collection, 420 Capen Hall Marilyn Hacker Oscar Silverman Annual Poetry Reading November 5, 7 p.m.; 250 Baird Hall THE WRITE THING READING SERIES AT MEDAILLE COLLEGE Matt Hart Poetry Reading November 4, 8 p.m. The Library at Huber Hall WBFO'S MEET THE AUTHOR, WITH BERT GAMBINI Thurston Clarke, author of Ask Not: The Inauguration of John F. Kennedy and the Speech that Changed America November 8, 7 p.m., Allen Hall, UB South Campus _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:18:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: November chicagopostmodernpoetry.com featuring Greenberg-Perloff-Zapruder-Seldess Comments: To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9gis_Bonvicino?= , rbianchi@unitedmarket.com In-Reply-To: <002401c4bff7$bbbf72d0$ae00a8c0@REGIS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Regis Yes I got it and I am working on it and the Brazil Focus as well Ray Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Régis Bonvicino [mailto:regis@uol.com.br] > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 3:47 AM > To: Haas Bianchi; UB Poetics discussion group; rbianchi@unitedmarket.com > Cc: Ray Bianchi > Subject: Re: November chicagopostmodernpoetry.com featuring > Greenberg-Perloff-Zapruder-Seldess > > > Bianchi, você recebeu a versão final de minha entrevista? Quais > ~são afinal > os poetas com quem você está trabalhando -- brasileiros? Abraços. RB > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Haas Bianchi" > To: "UB Poetics discussion group" ; > > Cc: "Ray Bianchi" > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 3:07 AM > Subject: November chicagopostmodernpoetry.com featuring > Greenberg-Perloff-Zapruder-Seldess > > > > > > Dear Friends of Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com > > > > The November issue will be live on November 2nd so take a break from the > > elections and check it out we are featuring > > > > Poetic Profiles > > > > Arielle Greenberg > > Jesse Seldess > > Matthew Zapruder > > Marjorie Perloff > > > > November Reading Highlights in our Region > > > > Susan Howe > > Charles Bernstein > > Anselm Hollo > > Peter Gizzi > > Susan Stewart > > Marjorie Perloff > > > > And many more please check out the site for all details. > > > > * Special Notice * > > > > Please keep checking back for two new sections to the site > > > > Country Focus > > > > In December we will launch a Country Focus that will appear every three > > months the first country to be focused on will be Brazil we are working > > now > > with well known Brazilian poets and editors to include profiles > of younger > > Brazilian poets and others in both Portuguese and English. > > > > I would urge any of our international readers which make up 42% of our > > readership to send us information on what is going on in your > part of the > > world so that we can focus on your region or nation. > > > > Small Press Focus > > > > In January we will launch a Small Press Focus that will appear > every three > > months the first press we will focus on will be Litmus Press & > Aufgabe and > > its Editor E Tracy Grinnell . > > > > Thanks for all your support as of this writing > Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com > > has had an average of 2200 unique visits a month > > with over 60,000 pageviews and over 70,000 hits a month making our site > > the > > # 1 Poetry site in the Chicago Region, thanks to all of you who are > > interested in what we are doing here- NOW GET OUT THERE AND VOTE- > > > > Regards > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:40:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Lundwall Subject: REMINDER: Call for Submissions: "Export: Writing the Midwest" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed dear midwestern friends... currently i am putting together an e-anthology for january issue of michael rothenberg's fine electronic literary journal Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org the e-anthology "Export: Writing the Midwest" aims to highlight the work of writers either currently living in or who have a very relevant and personal relation with the midwest... i am looking for submissions of poetry...fiction...essays...memoirs...whatever quality material you should decide to send... **** GUIDELINES: Poetry...Submit no more than 4 poems at a time in either .doc, .txt, or in the body of an email... Fiction/Non-Fiction...Should not exceed 4 pages preferably sent as a .doc file... Contact: Andrew Lundwall (andrew@poeticinhalation.com) Deadline: December 15th Subject line of emailed submission should read: "Big Bridge Submission/'Export: Writing the Midwest'"... Please include with submissions a short descriptive biographical note and (if you've one to share) an author's photo... **** best wishes... andrew lundwall andrew@poeticinhalation.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:42:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: andrew and jeannie Organization: poetic inhalation Subject: november [p]oetic [i]nhalationnnn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit dear respected friends + colleagues... the november edition of poetic inhalation is now live... the new issue features tin lustre mobile volume 4 issue 7 illustrated by thomas fink... with poetry by g. calhoun truluck, fortunato caragliano, ishle park, jd nelson, steve timm, shannon holman, and w.b keckler http://www.poeticinhalation.com/tlm_v4i7.html ...with new creative writing.... spade: cantos 16 - 18 by richard denner + david bromige illustrated by s. mutt the day georgiana wished too much by polycarp kusch illustrated by jad fair excerpt from dolls by tom whalen illustrated by rokko spider ..and... the line by raymond federman http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_creativewriting.html ...plus!!! an interview with richard denner + david bromige conducted by the esteemed bouvard pécuchet... http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_interview_spade.html ...also...we've published 3 new feature ebooks... living in translated space by sheila murphy illustrated by jiha moon alan sondheim's zz please understand my plant by john tyson cover art by john shimon http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_featureartist.html ...in addition there are two new reviews posted this month... ric carfagna reviews "last chap" by jonathan penton ...and... kevin killian reviews "cocktails" by d.a. powell http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_reviews.html poetic cheerz... a + j :-) co-founders/managing editors http://www.poeticinhalation.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:35:48 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Sown Out of Season MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sown Out of Season Basking in an Autumn sun on a bench in the park I'm puzzled, for there in the rocks on the pond's bank a little clump of corn sprouts green and dying. The pond is spring fed enlarged by the park founders. Its banks were recently fortified with truckloads of large white stones. I'm from out-of-state and twice chose this village as home. A solitary duck swims in the pond. A woman who loves animals placed him in this new home. A man from another place often stops to leave parched corn, to feed the duck and other birds and the greedy squirrels who don't need to be fed. They were born here with plenty of hickory and oak trees. Some were planted here too. No squirrels or duck ate that seed on the rocky bank and I don't know if anyone else has noticed my little clump of corn sprouts in front of my park bench. They're only 10 inches high grown from Spring corn seed scattered so late in the summer. That corn had no reason to grow out of season for me to wonder about. The duck flies to visit neighboring ponds and returns. We both wander in our free exile. Home is a place and a choosing and people simply never sow out of time. Mary Jo Malo 10/31 & 11/1 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:03:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Halpern & McMorris at SPT this Friday 11/5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Friday, November 5, 2004 at 7:30 p.m. Small Press Traffic presents a reading by Rob Halpern & Mark McMorris Rob Halpern joins us in celebration of his debut book, Rumored Place, which Camille Roy says "commits itself to a lyric interrogation of power. The abjection of lyric is brought to bear as critique in a sensationalism of pure intelligence... the result is a work for our moment: exhilarating, and edged with grief." Mark McMorris' books include Moth-Wings, The Black Reeds, and the just released The Blaze of Poui, of which the Voice Literary Supplement says "Poetic equilibrium of this order is a rare thing when managing such charged material, but in a young poet it is cause for small amazement." McMorris joins us from Washington, DC, where he teaches at Georgetown University. & coming up Guy Bennett & Stacy Doris 11/12 Geoffrey Dyer & Eileen Tabios 11/19 Unless otherwise noted, events are $5-10, sliding scale, free to SPT members, and CCA faculty, staff, and students. Unless otherwise noted, our events are presented in Timken Lecture Hall California College of the Arts 1111 Eighth Street, San Francisco (just off the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin) Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:08:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: The Divine Right of Murder Comments: To: "patrick@proximate.org" In-Reply-To: <200410311536.AA1009189126@proximate.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed "so I checked all the registered historical facts and I was shocked and shamed to discover that I was the 18th pale descendant of some old Queen or another. has the world changed or have I changed?" rmc -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, patrick@proximate.org wrote: > The conceit here is not English kings (note: Charlemagne, Pepin III, Mieszco I, Lothair, Arnulf, etc.) but royalty in general. > > Even the Divine Right of Kings idea is not English (Jacques-Benigne Bossuet). > > P > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "david.bircumshaw" > Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:59:54 -0000 > >> patrick, me mate: >> >>> King Robert II Stuart is the grandson of King Robert I Bruce.< >> >> who, what, when????? >> >> There's never been a King Robert of England, whether Stuart or not, and only the very temporary House of Stuart tried the divine >> right stuff, with unfortunate consequences for one's neck, over here. >> >> Kings of Scotland of course don't count (as Robin might explain) as they are mere subsidiaries (grin) >> >> >> All the Best (with a smile) >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> >> David Bircumshaw >> >> Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet >> & Painting Without Numbers >> >> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Patrick Herron" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 5:10 AM >> Subject: The Divine Right of Murder >> >> >> (from the vaults) >> >> >> >> >> The Divine Right of Murder >> >> >> >> King Egbert was the son-in-law of the emperor Charlemagne. >> >> King Aethelwulf is the son of King Egbert of Wessex. >> >> King Alfred the Great is the son of King Aethelwulf. >> >> King Edward "the Elder" is the son of King Alfred the Great. >> >> King Robert I Bruce is the >> great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- >> great(13)grandson of King Edward "the Elder." >> >> King Robert II Stuart is the grandson of King Robert I Bruce. >> >> George Herbert Walker Bush is the >> great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- >> great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great(22)grandson >> of King Robert II Stuart. >> >> George Walker Bush is the son of George Herbert Walker Bush. >> >> >> >> ************************************************************* >> >> Henry I of England married Matilda of Scotland, who was a direct >> descendant of Cerdic, King of the West Saxons, first Saxon king in 519. >> >> Henry I of England is the son of of William the Conqueror of Normandy. >> >> George Herbert Walker Bush is the >> great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- >> great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- >> great-great-great(27)grandson of Henry I of England. >> >> George Walker Bush is the son of George Herbert Walker Bush. >> >> ******************************** >> >> Our President, George Walker Bush, is the direct decsendant of Kings >> Cerdic, Egbert, Aelthelwulf, Alfred the Great, Edward the Elder, William >> the Conqueror, Henry I, Robert I Bruce, and Robert II Stuart, and the >> son of George Herbert Walker Bush. He is the direct descendant of two >> distinct monarchies of England, that of Egbert and of William the >> Conqueror. >> >> ******************************** >> >> "The state of monarchy is the supremest thing upon earth; for kings are >> not only God's lieutenants upon earth, and sit upon God's throne, but >> even by God himself are called gods. There be three principal >> similitudes that illustrate the state of monarchy: one taken out of the >> word of God; and the two other out of the grounds of policy and >> philosophy. In the Scriptures kings are called gods, and so their power >> after a certain relation compared to the divine power. Kings are also >> compared to fathers of families: for a king is truly Parens patriae, the >> politique father of his people. And lastly, kings are compared to the >> head of this microcosm of the body of man. >> >> "Kings are justly called gods, for that they exercise a manner or >> resemblance of divine power upon earth: for if you will consider the >> attributes to God, you shall see how they agree in the person of a king. >> God hath power to create or destrov make or unmake at his pleasure, to >> give life or send death, to judge all and to be judged nor accountable >> to none; to raise low things and to make high things low at his >> pleasure, and to God are both souls and body due. And the like power >> have kings: they make and unmake their subjects, thev have power of >> raising and casting down, of life and of death, judges over all their >> subjects and in all causes and yet accountable to none but God only. . . >> . >> >> "I conclude then this point touching the power of kings with this axiom >> of divinity, That as to dispute what God may do is blasphemy....so is it >> sedition in subjects to dispute what a king may do in the height of his >> power. But just kings will ever be willing to declare what they will do, >> if they will not incur the curse of God. I will not be content that my >> power be disputed upon; but I shall ever be willing to make the reason >> appear of all my doings, and rule my actions according to my laws. . . I >> would wish you to be careful to avoid three things in the matter of >> grievances: >> >> "First, that you do not meddle with the main points of government; that >> is my craft . . . to meddle with that were to lesson me . . . I must not >> be taught my office. >> >> "Secondly, I would not have you meddle with such ancient rights of mine >> as I have received from my predecessors . . . . All novelties are >> dangerous as well in a politic as in a natural body. and therefore I >> would be loath to be quarreled in my ancient rights and possessions, for >> that were to judge me unworthy of that which my predecessors had and >> left me. >> >> "And lastly, I pray you beware to exhibit for grievance anything that is >> established by a settled law, and whereunto . . . you know I will never >> give a plausible answer; for it is an undutiful part in subjects to >> press their king, wherein they know beforehand he will refuse them." >> >> From King James I, Works, (1609). >> >> *************************************** >> >> William the Conqueror is the son of Robert I "the Devil," Duke of >> Normandy. >> >> *************************************** >> >> King Edward the Confessor is the great-great-great grandson of King >> Alfred the Great. >> >> King Harold II is the son of King Edward the Confessor. >> >> King William I the Conqueror killed King Harold II and took his throne. >> >> George Walker Bush is the direct descendant of two families who tried to >> kill one another for the throne of England. >> >> *************************************** >> >> Emperor Charlemagne, great^42 uncle of George Walker Bush, is son of >> Pepin III, King of the Franks, and part of the House of Pepin. Three of >> Charlemagne's sons became Kings, of Neustria, Aquitaine, and Italy. His >> Grandchildren include another King of Italy, King of Germany, King of >> Aquitaine, King of Neustria, and Emperors Lothair I & Charles the Bald >> (also King of Aquitaine). Charlemagne's direct descendants include >> Emperors Guido, Lambert, Louis II, Louis II, and the French kings >> Charles II the Fat of France, Charles III the Simple, Louis II, III, IV, >> V, Lothair, and King Arnulf of Germany. Arnulf's direct descendants (the >> Welf and Hohenstaufen families) include at least two popes and Emperors >> Henry IV, V, VI, Conrad III & IV, Frederick I and II, Philip, and Otto >> IV. From Philip is descended the House of Castile, which includes >> Ferdinand II, King of Aragon and sponsor of Christopher Columbus. >> Ferdinand's two grandchildren, Emperors Charles I (later Emperor Charles >> V), and Ferdinand I, are the children of Philip of Hapsburg and serve as >> the patriarchs of the Spanish and Austrian Hapsburg families, >> respectively. >> >> Hapsburg literally means, "Hawk's Castle." >> >> *************************************** >> >> George Washington, like George Bush, is a direct descendant of King >> Egbert who married into the Charlemagne dynasty. He is descended through >> two family lineages that managed to come together after 1000 years. This >> makes them distant cousins. Interestingly enough, Washington is ALSO >> directly descended from William the Conqueror. In fact, the Charlemagne >> family is interlaced with the pre-Norman Invasion English Kings (re: >> inbred). Franklin Delano Roosevelt is directly descended from the >> Charlemagne dynasty, from Egbert and from William. Roosevelt is also a >> direct descendant of the Polish King Mieszko I, Danish King Svend I, and >> English King Merfyn. Interestingly enough, Roosevelt father AND mother >> are both direct descendants of William the Conqueror. James Monroe is >> the great^12 grandson of King James I Stuart. And so on and on.... >> >> *************************************** >> >> Thank you God for Your Great Blessings. >> >> >> >> .. . . . . . . >> Patrick Herron >> patrick@proximate.org >> >> Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX) >> now available: http://proximate.org/tagc >> >> Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm >> Works http://proximate.org/works.htm >> .. . . . . . . >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at proximate.org > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:59:16 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: voting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit balloting is voting with balls to the wall in support of tearing down the addicting proposition of an oil(y) actor in lamb's clothing a dic(k)tator in defensive of marriage & patriot acts ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:24:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: the etymology of etymology & addiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Nick, I think we are somewhat looking at the issue at cross purposes, reflecting our different takes on poetry, specifically, the function of language. For me, .the oncern is not therapeutic -and, in my sense, every addiction is not a negative, a defect. Let me be specific, in relation language. In our culture, the acceptable, productive function of language is communication; in its ideal efficient use, completely transparent (frictionless).To the extent that poetry uses language in excess of communication, uselessly, it slows down, thwarts, communication. What makes an action addictive or language useless is not its content (the nature of the action or what is said), but excess. In the 1920, taking cocaine was not considered addictive behavior (think of Cole's Porter's "You're the top -better than cellophane or cocaine"). Excessive use turns language from a medium of communication to a translucent object of desire. In other words uselessness/poetry has little do do with sickness. It is a peculiar kind of subversive play, "but in our room of the toys, dreams are shaking off/anxiously their dust ("souljam"). In another occasion, I described poetry as the addictive use of words. I was not referring to anything psychological. I was referring to poetry's subversive place in the cycle of production. Ciao. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 01:41:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: the etymology of etymology & addiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey nick ever been addicted to anything yerself all this jking off get real use those minds you all have which i lost long ago alll that education all that stuff i never learned for something better than this ping pong or are you all addicted speaking of which smoke it up boys ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:30:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: voter don't vote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am writing this letter to encourage you not to vote. This is a call to inaction: Every vote has as its aim a self-defense. Your vote is a source of danger to everyone else and so calls on them to vote also. This naked aggression against each other is madness. To deliver yourself from unjust authorities (ie. a Bush plutocratic oil-junta) you somehow believe your position is improved by electing and yielding obedience to another ruling authority (ie. a Kerry socio-regulatory bureaucracy), yet -- obviously -- all that results is continued power in the hands of authority and therefore continued oppression. Don't let them fool you. Instead, humble yourself, and simply desire your part to do nothing (against another). But if I do not vote, you might say, others will still be voting -- and then I am left with a governing power I had no part in. Indeed. Let them govern. Endure them with patience and without opposition. (Just like Saddam Hussein, you'll have lots of free time to write poetry!) Free yourself first! And then by your example show the world how to be free from all external power. Why is it every four years we must submit ourselves to the unnecessary and fruitless agony of campaign elections? Why are we always trying to settle the score? Are we the Hatfields and McCoys? Why not stress commonality in the face of conflict by abandoning every manner of campaign and election? What is this strange misconception of freedom as something 'prescribed' from external authority? Do you believe that voting for a political party or endorsing legislation can somehow make us 'more free'? The very condition of submission is contrary to all freedoms. For instance, what kind of animal imagines itself free in a fenced-in place? Are you not more intelligent? Diversity cannot be defined in advance, po-listers! Your lust to impose power (by electing officials) is a genuine negative act. When you vote, clearly you vote for your own reward (to gain) which is an aggression against everyone else. You enact tyranny! Why vote at the expense of everyone's prosperity?! Advocates of slavery! Put an end to the conflict of one section of the populace making it a duty to submit to what is prescribed to them by another section of the populace. Are we really that dumb? Are you ready to submit to 4 more years of Bush? Are Bush supporters willing to submit to 4 years of Kerry or Nader? Why prescribe anything to which anyone must submit?? It is a fallacy to believe there can exist in our modern day and age any institution, special interest, or single person supposed to represent every interest in society. How can you believe in the 'construction of society'? Your act of voting is nothing more than a submission to and a preference for despotism. It should be absolutely obvious that there is, and can be, no external definition of anything which should be binding upon all. *What is pro-choice?* Why do you constantly feel you have to secure your position? Why have you chosen (through your vote) to become passive instruments for the binding of others? Why do you abandon the attainment of your personal goals (supporting Kerry/Nader/Bush and not yourself)? Why do you support the 'interests' of society? Why do you assent to strengthen one's own state of subjection? Why have you trained yourselves to act in unison in submission to another's will (ie. vote for me!)? The idea that the activity of voting is some kind of 'sacred power' -- that without this activity terrible things will happen to you ('pre-emptive strike' philosophy) must be abandoned. Patriotism is a savage superstition: an aggrandizement to act with violence. Please remove yourself from this clandestine routine (behind the curtain) of intimidation and oppression. When will you stop supporting your own subordination and the subordination of others?! Stop voting! Stop the vote! Stop using aggression as a means of settling disputes (ie. my number of votes outnumber your number of votes, my blog has more visitors, my published poems and books outnumber yours)! Imagine if there was a war and nobody showed up? Ignore the consumerist-fallacy that we've already paid a month's rent on the battlefield!! Likewise imagine if there was an election and nobody voted. Stop behaving like senseless machines! Stop playing the roles of lambs-to-the-slaughter! Stop making laws binding on all (and building up police states to enforce them by forcible means...)! Stop supporting this positive insanity and gross barbarity! Don't vote! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:47:39 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: The Deer, by Wendy Burke (Finishing Line Press) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Finishing Line Press announces the publication of The Deer, a chapbook of poems by Wendy Burk Strange transformations abound in this new collection of poetry, in which myth, muscle, and metal not only coexist, but also merge. Alchemical in nature, yet rooted firmly to earth, The Deer leads the reader to wilderness in the most unlikely places: a wilderness physical and mental, seen by human eyes but not in human terms alone. About this book, poet Jane Miller has written: “It is a wonder to see lyric poetry do the work of philosophy and music. The ground under our assumptions is loosened by these poems. And this is the very frightening place from which they start… Unexpected juxtapositions occur in Wendy Burk’s lines naturally; in fact, the lines become about nature and, ultimately, our own natures.” Wendy Burk has twice been named Artist-in-Residence with the National Park Service (2001, Isle Royale National Park; 2003, Buffalo National River). Together with poet Eric Magrane, she is at work on a collaborative book based on these residencies. Her first book of translations, While Light is Built, was published in 2004 by Kore Press. Her poems have been published in journals such as Nimrod, Slipstream, EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts, poemmemoirstory, and Freshwater. Finishing Line Press is a poetry publisher based in Georgetown, Kentucky. In addition to the Chapbook Series, it publishes the New Women’s Voices Series and sponsors the Finishing Line Open Chapbook Competition. Other recent Finishing Line Press releases include Scared Money Never Wins, by Julia Wendell, and Galileo’s House, by James Scruton. Publication Date: November 2004 ISBN: 1-932755-60-8 The Deer is a 6” x 9” soft-cover chapbook. Retail price is $12 and includes free shipping for all orders placed before October 26, 2004. To order online, email FinishingBooks@aol.com or go to http://www.hometown.aol.com/finishingbooks/myhomepage/. Or you may order directly from the publisher by sending a $12 check or money order: Finishing Line Books P.O. Box 1626 Georgetown, KY 40324 859-514-8966 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:36:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Prisoners' Dilemma Has Something To Do With Sailors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed landscape distributions are seen from masts also the sea is the face of VIRGINIA, yes, but is there a limit on combing thin limit surroundings? The Snatched Visit: the snatched visit husks sink Indian Ocean like mornings familiar thru prisoners' Silent Belt Night {exeunt prisoners, belting out "Silent Night"} childlike Academy above did color down and bricklayer them prisoner against prisoner the walls were the panoramas sugarcane ship put into THAT BOTTLE by a circus of fingers, slowwwwwly the pursued, decrying dry wolves restored straw by straw, became golden throat doves, and, sez the Word all Earth, "Your frequency echoes seemed to us only solitude" rolled rooms ever for rolled Sun did recover crowds might be an apt reply if Word all Earth didn't habitually confuse forward speech with a hundred fetishes aeons, aeons, & this poem ("The Prisoners' Dilemma Has Something To Do With Sailors") is still talking about prisoners -- & will wrap up with a mention of dry wolves Word all Earth, you sworn sheet traveler, a lurid shadow of unwritten poems just as ink is the shadow of fiction, is now, just as prisoners were, Here of Shipwrecked There! the wolves are coming up next, their mouths are chewing-places another next: a divide arises: though the prisoners be lost (dead, under like-pleasure, tho constantly a line which draws sea's end) in the center of Indian Ocean sunk itself in center of All Water they'll somehow find themselves in dry wolves' bellies _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:46:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julia Klein Subject: Around Zukofsky Conference at UofC Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed AROUND ZUKOFSKY A Poetry and Poetics Event at the University of Chicago for the Birth=20 Centenary of Louis Zukofsky Thursday, November 11=97 Saturday, November 13, 2004 All events are free and open to the public No registration required Complete Schedule at: http://poetics.uchicago.edu/ZukofskyConference.html PAPERS: Robert Hass, Marjorie Perloff, Mark Scroggins, Susan Stewart RESPONDENTS: Lee Glidewell, Jenny Ludwig, Eirik Steinhoff, Karen Volkman READINGS: Robert Hass, Mark Scroggins, Susan Stewart PRESENTATION: Robert von Hallberg ROUNDTABLE: Dan Beachy-Quick, Oren Izenberg, Jed Rasula, Srikanth=20 Reddy, Mary Margaret Sloan, Karen Volkman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:12:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Madison quote Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed "War ... should only be declared by the authority of the people, whose toils and treasures are to support its burdens, instead of the government which is to reap its fruits." --James Madison ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:33:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Ignorance wins Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed It seems frightening to most that the Republican watchdogs who have been reminding us ad nauseum that they are defending our security are also the very same people responsible for the inept failure that has prolonged this nation's battle with Muslim extremists like Osama Bin Laden. How Republicans can point to Bin Laden's latest video as proof we need another four years of George W. Bush is mystifying at best. The Bush Administration failed to find Bin Laden then declared war on a country that had nothing to do with the horror of September 11. That this last statement is still debatable to some points to the greater problem that may put Bush right back in the White House. No one anywhere is relying on facts to make the decisions that threaten all our lives. The Bush coterie based their decisions on faulty intelligence (remember Colin Powell holding up satellite images when he spoke before the UN?), the American people are picking and choosing information without bothering to do the research necessary to making an informed decision, and Muslim extremist leaders are spewing their own skewed mantras of hate in an attempt to gain the future following that will perpetuate their war against the West. Nowhere is rational discourse to be found and few are interested in any information that doesn't support their preconceived notions. In fact most seem to harbor a real fear of discovering the truth and therefore make a conscious effort to avoid it. The bipartisan unity that resulted from the attack on the WTC has long disappeared and has been replaced by pathetic trickery and deception. November 2 will be the day America decides whether democracy is worthwhile. Ignorance wins. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 04:17:32 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ryan fitzpatrick Subject: Larissa Lai's New Chap - get it while it's hot! Comments: To: mquarter@interchange.ubc.ca, anarcheologia@hotmail.com, az421@freenet.carleton.ca, stu_ross@sympatico.ca, mayfly@shaw.ca, ks46@acsu.buffalo.edu, spruprai@telus.net, twayman@ucalgary.ca, supposedly.alli@verizon.net, weymanc@hotmail.com, julianicole2003@yahoo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MODL Press is proud to publish: welcome to asian women in business a one stop site for entrepreneurs by Larissa Lai "this space reserved for women's friend resource exchange home page are you a single man seeking an attractive Asian woman for friendship and correspondence? he puts Asian women on show LIKE MEAT IN A BUTCHER SHOP" Starting by Googling the search string "Asian Women", Larissa Lai takes us on a tour of the discourse surrounding the economics of identity, including mail order brides, pen pals, fitness models, and swift kicks in the groin. Published in 5.5 x 8.5 w/ mystery mail-order bride cover. Unnumbered edition of 65. 4pgs. $4.00. Trades welcome. If interested, please contact ryan fitzpatrick (rcfmod@hotmail.com) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:27:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: The number of Aboriginals imprisoned in Canada continues to grow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/33329.php The number of Aboriginals imprisoned in Canada continues to grow by Turtle Island Native Network • Monday November 01, 2004 at 07:00 PM Aboriginal people continue to be over-represented in Canada’s prison population. It is getting worse, not better. The number of Aboriginals imprisoned continues to grow while it drops for the general Canadian population . . . News and Comment by Tehaliwaskenhas Bob Kennedy,Oneida Turtle Island Native Network http://www.turtleisland.org October 28, 2004 Aboriginal people continue to be over-represented in Canada’s prison population. It is getting worse, not better. A new report on *Adult Correctional Services in Canada, says Aboriginal over-representation in provincial/territorial custody continues to rise. In 2002/03, Aboriginal people accounted for 21 percent of admissions to sentenced provincial or territorial custody, up from a low of 15 percent in 1997/98. In contrast, they represented only 3 percent of the total Canadian population in 2001. Aboriginal people also accounted for 18 per cent of federal custody admissions, 14 percent of probation intakes and 17 percent of conditional sentence admissions. While the number of Aboriginal people being jailed is rising, the report from Statistics Canada says the opposite trend is seen for the general population. "The adult incarceration rate, including federal, provincial and territorial inmates, has generally been falling since it peaked in 1994/95. On an average day in 2002/03, Canada had 134 adults in custody for every 100,000 adults in the population. Canada’s total incarceration rate-including both adults and young people-has been declining since the early 1990s in conjunction with the decreasing crime rate". It is obvious justice reform isn't moving quickly enough to divert more Aboriginals from jails and prisons, by way of alternative sentencing etc. There are numerous recommendations that would help in addressing the over-representation of our people as inmates. For example, read the final report of the Commission on First Nations and Métis Peoples and Justice Reform . . . http://www.turtleisland.org/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=2288 - - - - - - - Statistics Canada *Adult correctional services http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/041027/d041027b.htm Adult correctional services, admissions to provincial, territorial and federal programs http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/legal30a.htm - - - - - - - BACKGROUND Systemic Human Rights Problems - Aboriginal Women in Prison http://www.turtleisland.org/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=1581 Aboriginal women in prison http://www.elizabethfry.ca/submissn/aborigin/1.htm The Treatment of Aboriginal Inmates in Canada's Prisons http://www.turtleisland.org/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=143 ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 00:07:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: VOTE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed POLITICS < > VOTE DIFFERENT VOTE SEETHE WITHOUT THE LAG OF MESSAGE BASES; LIKE NET SEX VOTE ARE EVIL, BACKGROUND DISTURBANCES, THAT LIGHTNING PRESAGING SPAM, SHUDDERS OFF. IRC'S GOT A DIFFERENT ENERGY, BAN VOTE , GONE GIRLS AND BOYS, AND IF MOO VOTE ARE DISHONEST EROTICS, IRC VOTE YOUR BAD VOTE ARE BECAUSE YOUR NOT ME ILL KILL YOU AND YOUR BAD VOTE YOUR BAD VOTE YOU QUITTER WALKING OUT LIKE THAT YOUR BAD VOTE YOU WORMS GET YOU MONEY YOUR BAD VOTE YOU NEUROTIC YOU EXCUSES YOUR BAD VOTE KEEP SPOUTING TO ME, IT'S ANOTHER MATTER, ASSOCIATED WITH QUOTA VOTE . BUILD A MOO AND THERE IS VOTE . AND THE VOTE WITH ALL THE RECENT PROBLEMS ON CM-MOO AND NOW PMC2; WITH THE BAD VOTE VOTE , TO THE OTHER ALWAYS DREAMED OF BY AN INCOHERENT WEST. IT CALLED THE LOUDSPEAKER IS USED IN CIUDAD JUAREZ FOR VOTE IDEOLOGY. THE LATTER EMPHASIZES LOCAL TERRITORIALIZATIONS, MICRO- VOTE , AND SHE ENJOYED EXHIBITING HERSELF BEFORE MEN; IT WAS HER VOTE . OF PREJUDICE, THE VOTE OF DEAFNESS FOR EXAMPLE, THE ENUNCIATION OF THEORY, SO THAT ACADEMIC VOTE TURNED QUICKLY INTO THE VOTE THAT LAY AT THE HEART OF THEIR VOTE , SEXUALITIES-DESIRE, MACHINIC-GENDER, KATHY ACKER'S DECONSTRUCTION OF SEXUALITIES AND VOTE , AND OF VOTE OR OTHER BARTERING OF FLESH VACATED OF VOTE OR OTHER BARTERING OF FLESH VACATED - I'VE NEVER SEEN A CONFERENCE WHICH HAD A VOTE OF TOTAL INCLUSION, NOR PURPOSE? AN UNKNOWN VOTE PLAYS OUT AROUND ME; SECRECIES AND CONCEPTS AT HIS THOUGHT, NOTION OF FREEDOM, NOISE, JAZZ, VOTE , SEXUALITY. THINK COLORFUL. THESE VOTE OF IDENTITY - GERMANS, GREEKS, EUROPEANS, GET ONE VOTE , THEORY, PRESENCE, RELATION, SEX. AURA FALLS PITIFULLY FROM A THIRD WORLD, WHERE I HIDE MYSELF, EXHAUSTED BY PAST VOTE , THE QUOTA VOTE - THE SUBTEXTS CONSTRUE A VOTE AND ECONOMY ALL THEIR OWN. I NOTICE THE SAME VOTE , IDEOLOGIES, AND POWER-PLAYS AT WORK HERE AS NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING, VOTE AS USUAL, FOR THAT MATTER GENDER AS CARRIES ITS OWN VOTE WITHIN THE DEBRIS OF THEORY. FROM THE VANTAGE OF RACE, BUT ONE THAT LENDS ITSELF TO DUBIOUS VOTE , MIASMA, NET VOTE , GRASS-ROOTS VOTE , AND GEO VOTE ? IT'S NOT JUST NO VOTE , NOT EVEN THE SOCIAL - JUST THE TWO OF THEM. NO CARS, NO TRUCKS, NO ROCK AND ROLL, NO AIDS, NO DRUGS, NO VOTE , NO THEATER OR VOTE . VOTE IS POOR. OUR PHILOSOPHIES ARE POOR AND MISERABLE. OUR HUMANS WERE VOTE , OR THEATER, OR MAGIC. WHENEVER, BY CHANCE, THERE CAME EMERGENCE OF A PHILOSOPHY, AND A THEATER - YES A THEATER, AND A VOTE , DARE SHE SAY IT, YES, A VOTE , AND A PHILOSOPHY AND A THEATER AND ONE WELL. NOT THAT THERE ISN'T GEO VOTE AS WELL, ENORMOUS CRIMES, ONCE WE ETC. BOTH VOTE AND WAR ARE QUALITATIVELY DIFFERENT, THE LATTER ALSO REPLACES THE TALK OF VOTE . CARESS THE WIRES WITH BIGGER VOTE FOR EXAMPLE. PSYCHOANALYTICALLY, I THINK OF MOUTHS AND FASTENERS. _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 00:14:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: andrew loewen Subject: Re: Ignorance wins/voter don't vote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bruce Cockburn’s been in my head lately: “Call It Democracy” (1985) Padded with power here they come International loan sharks backed by the guns Of market hungry military profiteers Whose word is a swamp and whose brow is smeared With the blood of the poor Who rob life of its quality Who render rage a necessity By turning countries into labour camps Modern slavers in drag as champions of freedom Sinister cynical instrument Who makes the gun into a sacrament -- The only response to the deification Of tyranny by so-called "developed" nations' Idolatry of ideology North South East West Kill the best and buy the rest It's just spend a buck to make a buck You don't really give a flying fuck About the people in misery IMF dirty MF Takes away everything it can get Always making certain that there's one thing left Keep them on the hook with insupportable debt See the paid-off local bottom feeders Passing themselves off as leaders Kiss the ladies shake hands with the fellows Open for business like a cheap bordello And they call it democracy And they call it democracy And they call it democracy And they call it democracy See the loaded eyes of the children too Trying to make the best of it the way kids do One day you're going to rise from your habitual feast To find yourself staring down the throat of the beast They call the revolution IMF dirty MF Takes away everything it can get Always making certain that there's one thing left Keep them on the hook with insupportable debt Comments by Bruce: "That song came from the time of neo-conservatism, when governments supported business at the cost of lives and nobody gave a shit. We have since moved on to neo-liberalism, when governments support business at the cost of lives and nobody gives a shit; and I see we're moving on to neo-feudalism, that's the service economy coming at you. We will all serve. I'm not quite sure who we're serving. There's a sort of mystery there; are we serving Bill Gates? I think not, he's too visible. Somebody else? Maybe you're sitting right here (in the audience). Are you out there? Fuck off, if you are. (positive audience response) And if you're not, well we missed a grand opportunity to level with each other." - during a live performance at Massey Hall, Toronto, Canada, 25 March 2000. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 00:43:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: VOTE NEW YORK!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed VOTE NEW YORK!!! It's easy to vote this election! Vote the New York way! We're the smartest city in America and that makes New York State the smartest state! (In spite of Albany!) We have the major museums! The biggest shows! In this city we have neighborhoods from over one hundred and twenty countries! Where I live we have the Brooklyn Academy of Music and the Mark Morris dance studios - a huge building devoted to one company, built from the ground up! New York Dolls! Bella Abzug! We have radio stations for every taste! Our cultural economy is tremendous - where else can you find regularly, at a thrift shop, Benjamin and Frege, Pavese, and Madison's The Hermeneutics of Postmodernity? We have the major newspapers, magazines, cultural journals, anywhere in the English-speaking world! We are the home of Yiddish theater and hiphop and just about every form of jazz ever created or discovered! We're the city that produces around the clock, that never sleeps at night, that constantly moves, dances, and thinks! Our daily news is almost always political, and our ball team is one of the best in the country - so good in fact, that we let Boston have the series this time! And we're liberal enough to tolerate a bit of fascism as Bush and his cohorts coughed their way through a national convention! Bill Clinton! The West Village! Civil right and wrongs! We've got the best artists, and poetry begins and ends here, no matter what you heard about the west coast! Our art's so important Terry Allen had to make fun of it! We've got institutions like St Marks and the Met (which? opera or museum, take your pick) that are nowhere else to be found on the continent! And we take our politics seriously without moronic lip-service to god and country! We'll pledge allegiance if the country deserves it! We know the flag's a piece of cloth! We'll stand tall for or against the powers that be, and we'll lead the country in demonstrations if we have to! Vote for us and let us decide! A vote for us is a vote for justice everywhere - we've got the best law schools in North America here - even Derrida came and spoke over and over again, Kristeva just did her heart-stopping tour! We take nothing from no one! We've had the Talking Heads! If we're going to have a mob, we're going to have the best mob in the world! If we're going to dig up dirt on someone, we'll do it to the bottoms of our pockets! If we're going to riot, we'll be second to L.A. but nowhere else! Saturday Night Live! Springsteen just across the river! We move furiously on public transportation! We have one of the lowest crime rates in the nation, and one of the smallest ecological footprints anywhere! We have some of the best universities in the world, some of the most committed filmmakers, and our writers are second to none! Look at me, at Franz Kline, at Charlie Parker, look at the Harlem Renaissance, look at Walt Whitman, look at the Brooklyn Bridge, and marvel, marvel! And of all the places in the country, we never lost our cool over 9/11 but took it bravely and intelligently in stride, even when our thug of a president came down to make political capital of things! We have Olmsted-designed beautiful parks, we've got the Jamaica Bay marshes, the Rockettes, even dancing Santas! We tolerate heterosexuals and just about anyone else; even men and women can get married, and there's never been a question of gay rights, which is our fight and yours, although you might not know it! We question our race relations, our sexual relations, our religious relations, up front and in your face! We don't file style but make it, and you can't follow it if you don't live here, because you don't have the energy! Everyone comes here sooner or later and does something, and even if they leave, they're never the same again! We're smart when it comes to voting, we know the ecological score, the home security score, better than most; we know the foreign policy score, we've got the United Nations, and there's less trouble in the streets in that regard than anywhere else in the USA! We're remarkably tolerant and we recognize our faults and work on them, hard as hell, even in the onslaught of Republican slaughter in an unjust war! Andy Warhol and the Velvet Underground! And we'll tell you this, that Bush is NOT our president, that his country is NOT our country, no matter what you hear! We're too smart for that! Sorry Toronto, Montreal, L.A., Chicago, we're the cultural capital of North America! Kathy Acker! Apollo Theater! We're the synaptic pulse coursing through your heart and your neighbor's heart and everything good and bad brought to you in the name of capital, progress, liberality, liberalism, liberation, fury, rap, fashion, power, electric culture, Broadway universe, WiFi universe, mass transportation, just the good life with thrift-shop books and the headquarters for the Daily Show! NBC ABC CBS and radio radio radio! Forget Hollywood, that has-been home of cocaine creeps and heroine harries. Come visit, bring your cash, you'll need it, and we need it too! Whatever you heard, you don't have to watch your back here! We're the Soul of the world! We invented Soul! We got Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Witches, Warlocks, Santeria and more! And when you vote Democratic, just think, you'll be voting with the best of what this place has to offer, this United States, which may not be much outside of the five boroughs, but it's all we've got! So let us lead you to the promised land, and Vote New York, Vote New York, Vote New York!!!! - ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 01:59:03 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nh go hi ro on in ll x...xo...xot the i...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:08:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hazel smith Subject: new cyberwriting article and piece Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hello everyone Some of you may be interested in my article, Cursors and Crystal Balls: Digital technologies and the futures of writing in Text: The Journal of the Australian Association of Writing Programs at http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/index.htm, and also the piece soundAFFECTs which is a digital collaboration with Anne Brewster and Roger Dean written in the program Jitter. . The URL is of the contents page of the journal, and both pieces can be reached form there. Hazel -- Dr. Hazel Smith Senior Research Fellow School of Creative Communication Deputy Director University of Canberra Centre for Writing http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/writing Editor of Inflect http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/inflect University of Canberra ACT 2601 phone 6201 5940 More about my creative work at www.australysis.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 02:47:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Sown Out of Season MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit army (for mary jo) sowing out of time the duck a quack if ever drained of its etoms a lol ogy gone wild in these tamed waters tired from pulling the levers in his sleep a young swan beds down for the night the choice he bet on still a bet away each season is out of place this grain like the two lips in the movie tonight that weren't yours other creatures are fed by the keeper's hand tho the keeper acts like other creatures born here to this pond a LAGOON more like it unmasked the mask worn as the mask is worn frayed about the edges the ties that bind it to the skin within reason the carbon hark dying beast & this love a jagged rock at the edge of water speaks of extinction as only a "solid" can army follows army into the waiting stench the coming growth army wading thru feed toward the SAG - parm la lazit prasm opti- aut a bout gone round again & round a n other cycle unpleated ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:55:32 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Maudlin' Regets Comments: To: poneme@lists.grouse.net.au, BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I woke with a hangover about the size of Wales, Dylan Thomas had drunk in every bar in it that night. Wrote on a note 'girlfiend' by mistake, think that that ol' debill he be in me, to be true wouldthatIcouldotherbenot like me Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:36:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Self-sown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Singularities No reason for the halcyon to soar and dive to plunge beneath a calm surface for its food the other In season the orphan waits to become a lover to become a mother no choice about the wounding no more dancing for a lame fisher queen We choose to stay in our place to eat or be eaten to desire home ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:57:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Justin Katko Subject: a while-you-vote mini-soundtrack MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hello the link below will direct you to a while-you-vote mini-soundtrack composed for george bush and everyone else. if anyone knows how to contact these individuals, please just go ahead and forward the message for me happy button-pushing! justin katko http://www.users.muohio.edu/katkojn/how_not_even.mp3 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:25:40 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: [Poneme] Maudlin' Regets Comments: To: poneme@lists.grouse.net.au, BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, david.bircumshaw@ntlworld.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Maudlin' Regets Like the pun (or ambiguity?) in the title here, dave. > I woke with a hangover about Do you need "about" here? > the size of Wales, Dylan Thomas 'Twere me, I'd drop-and-incent "Dylan Thomas" -- but that's me > had drunk in every bar in it > that night. > > Wrote on a note > 'girlfiend' by mistake, think > that that > > ol' debill he be in me, to be > true > > wouldthatIcouldotherbenot > like me Like the shift(s) in register in the two above stanzas. Like it, dave. Cheers, Robin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:51:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: i.m. Herbert Katzman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Zinnias (i. m. Herbert Katzman) troughs crests frozen seas waterways East River New York Bay the Staten Island Ferry Statue of Liberty glimpsed through veils of fog rain and fading light & black passages dense paper seeming charred today I feel every false throne must first crack splinter before the genuine can appear THAT UNADULTERATED FORM zinnias wedding of jagged animated petals nervous rhythms -- that rich blue background --Gerald Schwartz # 37 @ St. Paul Blvd. Fire Station polling place, 8:20 A. M. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:53:11 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: [Poneme] Maudlin' Regets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Rob. The bit I'm not sure about is the language damage in the compound word. 'About' I had me doubts (!) and also the hanging D.T. (I've only just realised what that bastard's initials mean (!) btw. All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hamilton" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [Poneme] Maudlin' Regets From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Maudlin' Regets Like the pun (or ambiguity?) in the title here, dave. > I woke with a hangover about Do you need "about" here? > the size of Wales, Dylan Thomas 'Twere me, I'd drop-and-incent "Dylan Thomas" -- but that's me > had drunk in every bar in it > that night. > > Wrote on a note > 'girlfiend' by mistake, think > that that > > ol' debill he be in me, to be > true > > wouldthatIcouldotherbenot > like me Like the shift(s) in register in the two above stanzas. Like it, dave. Cheers, Robin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:31:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Election Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today I bow and light a stick of incense to the Buddha of Democracy. = Deep eyes and an open heart. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:38:57 -0500 Reply-To: David Nemeth Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Nemeth Subject: Call For Submissions: inquisitions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable inquisitions: an experimental poetry journal http://inquisitions.nemski.com/ inquisition Inquisition as the act of inquiring, an investigation, the process of inqui= ry. "In 1925 Borges stated that his title aimed to dissociate "inquisition" once and for all from monks' cowls and the smoke of damnation. After an inquisitorial pursuit of his own work, the effort continues." =E2=80=94James E. Irby, Introduction to Jorge Luis Borges' Other Inquisitio= ns, Austin, Texas: The University of Texas Press, 1964, 1993. submission guidelines inquisitions is a poetry journal specializing in experimental/avant work by textual and visual poets. Poets can send in 3 to 10 poems. Essays on poetics are appreciated. Textual work accepted in most any format (txt, doc, email body, etc.). Simultaneous or previously published work is not accepted. All submissions should be addressed to inquisitions@gmail.com. Please include INQUISITIONS SUBMISSION in the subject line. visual poetry note Visual poetry should be submitted in jpg format. Visual poems larger than 11.5 cm by 17 cm (approx 4.5" by 6.7") will be resized for printing. The magazine will be published in black and white. translation poetry note Translations are encouraged though original should be included for publication. Translators should also provide proof of translator's rights. copyright All rights revert back to author after publication. editor David Nemeth editorial advisory board Nick Piombino, Chris Murray, Geof Huth, Tom Beckett and Anny Ballardini. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:08:13 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: Dear Diary; tuesday, the 2nd of November 2k4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 1. Social Demography AKA The Absent Mind bleeped out; however the beating and severing man not subject to the law is a true weapon - And quite a few lesbians make less money. --- Afghanistan, before we invade France and more aggressive plans tactic is violence out fraud often missed para demostrarme que estoy equivocado, a surgir probablemente en el futuro de nada? de la pena de muerte de mi insondable memoria Un certain ressort modo semiconsciente, cabe pensar que la forma como se pierde el tiempo (el tiempo le afectan el movimiento y los campos gravitatorios, joder que ganas tenemos) 2. Urban Area Types: sung by yuppy crackers as a candy available 8am to 12pm Mountain Standard Time, civilian passive using arcane laws that allow challenges at the polls. my son Bill, who killed himself to get away from me (.../...) constantly interrupted by > clicking noises. un chico de origen norteafricano pero nacido entre David y Goliat void *prog1(void *p) { while(1) in total control of everything and everyone around me printf "Oh, I know about misleppings, sure I do" 3¦,„)1ÙŒ²ô1ŽWŽ,“n…Xƒ/Yõ,~Îß <4eû®È}E¿i H¿ »{Në¸Õž "6œ&(%üÎ(šÆh3·y“¶ Üó4Õ &ƒ» æÅKNÇ Ž « ㎏] ·gˆÚ Ä žO|ó´;u¨m«$c“#Ùí¿ž* A»Øý·º¸Î«—Žf[ÜÆy ¥Œ#Egùk>È;]|)/cÉì é骢ik, ¤{0q)æĘ̂ ¢ê˜Ñ&Á;<áS â eiÀcv„ýÀ¦gÍJi¿4ëÔh4 ($ù)LÛ`#'%sî^úé ùãÒ­IG–ó Þ•– F»O ýN:ãZܳ ¢Ï"#6 ÷œ “1õc ·µ>ÆH Á…¢W·Ë£'ŽyéÐUþ [î]7Ìð œÇõM,” ñüÊJ ÀúW ×ÄÈ[íGê}ƒójžaRz _i5Üf§koUÁÖÅ_ ­ø#àûýxètZ×! s<èâ ÄÇïšG Ò‡ª m j̹{b° âüvûO £ ,ì­ÓÏ Dˆ½ÜÐÍ” " ›¤•#s¹ÌS, …q8" þ] 4² $éN) Eõ ×VSe9 ÊŒÀ†l mZ´ –5M}ù®¼Ûpfäì ? tYNfF¨KˆSà ¬ó¥m… YAóŸÔ ›sð ¡ ¼æã'N“ Fp8— kÄ¢ƒk`]OŸKª>O!ûd:z™Ü‚Ïü[$ â.¤Éèµú>ù #QÌè‹V A» ~}ªƒ*~ S˹ ‘`øBÉ.Ûo ìj ‰>É&AU_ m]Å¿â Ù—2ºwzl ò(ún,UÃÖÕ ÇÌTš ?àÔsà Ž ,6 iQï eìãþþo»ì ¬‡2Gä¶) LÔÃßi#Ät}ê20þ`îÔ¼¢n ã‚Dcš#Ç }ÇqÞY õo"’Z ‚‡ ˜ Ú´cv߱ѦZÛ™u ‘ZôVS‹øP— 6&Rú 7ûèë̱/3ÃÝÔ cëòîú›ºP›ÕÁ àöQIeù ‚J˜!µ ˆtN>Ž¨ ÁÌøRˆ ¿éê"J¶ÍÂ3"¸Àoý« e(y¿‰˜I‚'J½Fà «¡_i­i¬Jã:kÕ^§7¤ 7°´å èMÊŸôùÐ!½Ð -4ãR,çÊû1 ¹ö~„0èCUÚ"sò«ä2Õs' wÀÏÕ]£ò»o #AÔ6%Ž ˆVtñ ¢ø|DÓHФ-ø¤ö¨¼T`¡Ì ÛÌVe]ikHž)h9ˆC8 ‚¨³¬m±µöÎ ùN/w÷ÃÑÁË Á"OoÚÖŽ d䂪 2-ü á)aü§F·Ð6û)¤ ¿ÓsëK„Ñ©AZ|°¼ óG¹ÌtÑ¡j…7¶²Údè ?Rò¸ ØuKõB¬y ¸ ´ò $¾zQÒÔ¦.Ç ƒ7¸ƒ<¨KõË‘;ǦF§"škyÕ 17Õj`1n 2ò Q’ý gq±h ¾ ]kTçù> ÖcžÆc(®ú5ÚV[v &Æ“×U1ú^É× your fetish is a "conversation" your fetish is a "conversation" your fetish is of false advertising your fetish is code your fetish is language your fetish is egoist dialogue your fetish is (being) well well understood THEME "FILLES JAMBES ECARTEES" does not burden himself liberty secure must guard regardless of how the government the doctrine of ignoble convincing "Old Europe" / Algunas naciones se resisten a seguir CCTV en lo alto de las grandes verjas de hierro be in the pay of the big and distortions I encountered variants/versions unconditionally set a specified memory Je n'en sais rien, mais qu'est-ce qu'on vivait bien en France quand modifier un ordre existant les fragments de manuscrits jadis les "trois concupiscences" apprend rien. Je interruptores de alarma you are asleep you cannot wake up you are deeply dreaming within the nightmare of the world participer aux violences - hahahahaha! Me fais pas rire rations sentimentales sonner de plus en plus faux se faire enterrer vivant, qui concerne la perte de conscience B=C then A=C? deleted without human intervention viva como la sangre lois de propagation de ces ondes : il suffit d'orienter un peu "ces lois ordinaires de la chimie", le /constater/? Pero, hija, no se me quita el malestar She didn't say that she was unemployed continuity of our Cincinnati values deviant conduct, talking on the phone a couple weeks ago feed and house a couple of airliner hijackings or reinforcing cockpits as the Israelis had done kids on one inadequate income (i.e. their property) where he shared his inanity yet *another* thing a law suit claiming multitude of sins within Ministrstva za kulturo he lives in the future i think. (coherent messages after being beheaded) found it to be a dead end because there is ugliness. All short contrast each other: High neither real nor unreal anxiety produced by something disrupting, ie "placer son plaisir sexuel" how to directly and clearly express anger, choices with regard to her own body the monochromatic (single wavelength) red-from-blood stockings as in old-fashioned print for the English impaired Clear the stream state This toolkit teaches you everything you need to know The state of your mind is nothing more than a reflection of the state of your guts CNN Headline news when he is menstruating, or menopausal, he is more prone to be attracted to a man with scissors lodged in her temple C'est foutu. C'est foutu. CA3D 5 E F 6 387 26A4 B3 6 7C8 2 3D4 8723 4E7 3F EA5 2B5D 493E0 87 7465 4 3 20 4 23 29 3 42 7 4 2 645 129 So I was changing a porch light bulb C'est foutu. C'est foutu. C'est foutu. they're the wrong size C'est foutu. è ”|tj ‰¾& t â ë " º  Ú v ›ây»¶Ò¯ýÖÞé Í[ †«È ï ” : f m h ‰ â £ ¶ º j ¸ s Ðdû f j ‚ • d Á^úê× even more ominous consequences C'est foutu. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:16:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: the etymology of etymology & addiction In-Reply-To: <48694443.4D281FA8.001942C5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Someone on the list recently wrote that addiction is the continued indulgence in something one feels they oughtn't indulge in. That's an interesting definition, but, as others have pointed out, addition can be a physical, physiological fact--even if one doesn't feel they oughtn't indulge in whatever they're addicted to. Opium, for instance, is very addictive, but, besides the woeful effects of withdrawl, can be safely used for the entirety of one's life--if one can manage to always have a supply of the stuff. It needn't drive anyone mad or sickness or crime. Many notable figures have been and are addicted to various painkillers (didn't McCarthy have a steady supply of morphine throughout his life? Take a look at the new book Reefer Madness : Sex, Drugs, and Cheap Labor in the American Black Market by Eric Schlosser). I'm not sure how this relates to poetry--I'm not sure one can be "addicted to words" anymore than one can be addicted to air--as we're in language like we're in air. But it (addiction) might serve as a metaphor for the poetic impulse, to use, as Murat writes, "language in excess of communication," that is, "uselessly," to "thwart[]" communication. Wasn't it Wilde who said art is useless? I wonder. All the best, and happy voting day, Joseph > communication wrote: > Dear Nick, > > I think we are somewhat looking at the issue at > cross purposes, reflecting our different takes on > poetry, specifically, the function of language. For > me, .the oncern is not therapeutic -and, in my > sense, every addiction is not a negative, a defect. > > Let me be specific, in relation language. In our > culture, the acceptable, productive function of __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:03:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Sites for exit poll junkies In-Reply-To: <3FAACF9869235D4BAE69B91D65389DDF72FA94@adams.cnr.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ------ Forwarded Message From: "Coyne, John P." Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:29:26 -0500 Subject: more sites Keep an eye on the threads at www.dailykos.com and www.mydd.com . I expect that the first exit polls will get posted to DailyKos around 1 pm or so. ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:11:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bradley Redekop Subject: A salut for my beautiful grandmother to decide the presidency! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Bradley, Do not make of the vomits. And do not be afraid. Here is why. My grandmother, she has 89 years. She is very old. She cannot see so much with her eyes. She cannot walk so much the good. She has recently "fallen" to make of an injury to her legs. Imagine only to fall and hurt your leg. This is the shame of the old person. BUT My grandmother, she is to live in the Viroqua, Wisconsin. The Viroqua, Wisconsin, she is a small city outside of the LaCrosse, Wisconsin. The Viroqua, Wisconsin, she is filled with so many of the old Norwegians. Velkommen til Viroqua! And these old Norwegians, they are to make of a HATRED for the President. These old Norwegians are old farmers and ranchers. They know that the President is a fake cowboy! The real cowboys, they do not act this way! The real cowboy, he is silent and helpful! He does not abuse the helpless! These old Norwegians are old Christians. They know that the President is a fake Christian! The real Christians, they do not act this way! The real Christian, he is selfless and peaceful! He does not abuse the helpless! So my grandmother is to make of a hatred for the President like maybe I am to make of a hatred for the Interpol or the Franz Ferdinand bands. This is a serious hatred. So, Bradley. So please. Do not make of the vomits. And do not be afraid. For the election of the Wisconsin "swing state", she is safe in the hands of the old Norwegians. This election, she is safe in the hands of my beautiful grandmother. So maybe my grandmother, she is so old. Maybe she is never to make of the president voting again. This is an unbelievable sadness to me. So much love for the nonna. But do not cry! For my grandmother, she will cast the deciding ballot today! My grandmother, she will cast the deciding ballot in Wisconsin -- and the Wisconsin electoral college votes, they will go to Senator John F. Kerry! This is some way to go! This is, how you say, "guns a-blazin'"! Arrivederci con le pistole! A salut for my beautiful grandmother to hobble on the walker to the voting poll booth to make of a decisive vote for Senator John F. Kerry! A salut for my beautiful grandmother to decide the presidency! Salut, my nonna! ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:18:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Election Sign & thought Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please Vote, Earth People. I would if I could. Alien Sign on Valencia Street, San Francisco, this morning. Nothing like a little cosmic surveillance to urge us on. By the way, I suspect one sign of the weakness or strength of the Christian Right Wing - at least in California - will be the difference in the number of votes for Bush and the number of votes in support of the Stem Cell Research initiative. This is on the assumption that Moderate Republicans will vote for the Initiative. The difference in the two votes should put the Counter-Scientific brand of Evangelical Republican into numerical perspective. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:26:17 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Dalachinsky digs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dalachinsky digs It appears Steve is the only guy who gets it. A poem is where those covert and subtle power words dissolve into a watery elixir of meaning. If you swim in it or drink it you're connected. You're making it. It's not about dictionary definitions. It's about the roots tangled way back there when-where words are made and the leaf that falls into your hair. Same tree. To say, to decree, to make something so. Out of the hwyl, the black lagoon of unconsciousness, the torture of light, the self, the other. What do the words cream and milk evoke, provoke in you? Kerouac said beat and he meant beatific and beat down and beat up and jazz. Too many words, too much oxygen, too much carbon dioxide - the addiction to breathing, talking for what? To be a waste of skin? It's the joy-terror wheel, the meat wheel where connection is better than addiction. I'm hooked on making the futile flesh fertile. Feirfez, like Parzival's turtledove: melange co(u)lomb poisie hame. Word. It's what's for dinner. You are what you eat. We live in alien individual universes, one from the other. I don't need to have the same philosophy as Dalachinsky. Can you hear me now? Dig. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:19:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Confesssions of a Writing Addict (re: etymology & addiction) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit C'mon...Let's just cut this addiction debate down to the basics. I'm a word junkie & make no bones about it. It started 44 years ago when some guy with 5 o'clock shadow named Kerouac offered me a taste at the soda shop where kids weren't supposed to go after school. The first one wasn't free back then, contrary to myth. It cost me 50 cents. Plus tax, if you can imagine that. What did I know? I was just a kid. Then he introduced me to his supplier, Burroughs, and the rest has been downhill. Olson, Whalen, Bernstein, Nichol...not to mention a thousand others...they've all been The Man at one time or another. Most of you know how it works. If you don't, you're kidding yourself. You start with a poem or story-just an experiment, always an experiment -and it leads to a way of life. A way of life in which you'll do anything to get that fix. And I mean anything. On a good day I just cut a few words out of a dictionary, and cook them in a water-filled spoon with my lighter till they form a solution, then I draw them into an eyedropper. I puncture a vein with a needle then put the eyedropper over not in the hole and squeeze gently, till the rush blows me away. Then I nod over my computer and wake up to find a page filled with all the words in my system, and it's time to cop more. On a bad day, I'll do anything: grab a thesaurus and eat the pages, ask my wife to turn tricks in front of a bookstore (she always refuses, tells me to read what I have), steal Derrida out of little old ladies' purses....whatever it takes to feed my habit Sometimes none of this works. Like today. So, I'm standing on the mean streets in Florida, offering to vote for anybody who'll give me my writing fix...just a few words to crank, c'mon...Name your man & I'll cast the ballot. I need my fix. Bad. And I gotta do what I gotta do. Wouldn't you? Unrepentantly Yours in Shame & Degradation, Vernon "Spike" Frazer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:46:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Full transcript of bin Ladin's speech MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed english aljazeera net: Full transcript of bin Ladin's speech Monday 01 November 2004, 16:01 Makka Time, 13:01 GMT Following is the full English transcript of Usama bin Ladin's speech in a videotape sent to Aljazeera. In the interests of authenticity, the content of the transcript, which appeared as subtitles at the foot of the screen, has been left unedited. Praise be to Allah who created the creation for his worship and commanded them to be just and permitted the wronged one to retaliate against the oppressor in kind. To proceed: Peace be upon he who follows the guidance: People of America this talk of mine is for you and concerns the ideal way to prevent another Manhattan, and deals with the war and its causes and results. Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example - Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don't possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 - may Allah have mercy on them. No, we fight because we are free men who don't sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours. No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again. But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred. So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider. I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind. The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced. I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy. The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond. In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors. And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children. And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance. This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children - also in Iraq - as Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq's oil and other outrages. So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs, should a man be blamed for defending his sanctuary? Is defending oneself and punishing the aggressor in kind, objectionable terrorism? If it is such, then it is unavoidable for us. This is the message which I sought to communicate to you in word and deed, repeatedly, for years before September 11th. And you can read this, if you wish, in my interview with Scott in Time Magazine in 1996, or with Peter Arnett on CNN in 1997, or my meeting with John Weiner in 1998. You can observe it practically, if you wish, in Kenya and Tanzania and in Aden. And you can read it in my interview with Abdul Bari Atwan, as well as my interviews with Robert Fisk. The latter is one of your compatriots and co-religionists and I consider him to be neutral. So are the pretenders of freedom at the White House and the channels controlled by them able to run an interview with him? So that he may relay to the American people what he has understood from us to be the reasons for our fight against you? If you were to avoid these reasons, you will have taken the correct path that will lead America to the security that it was in before September 11th. This concerned the causes of the war. As for it's results, they have been, by the grace of Allah, positive and enormous, and have, by all standards, exceeded all expectations. This is due to many factors, chief among them, that we have found it difficult to deal with the Bush administration in light of the resemblance it bears to the regimes in our countries, half of which are ruled by the military and the other half which are ruled by the sons of kings and presidents. Our experience with them is lengthy, and both types are replete with those who are characterised by pride, arrogance, greed and misappropriation of wealth. This resemblance began after the visits of Bush Sr to the region. At a time when some of our compatriots were dazzled by America and hoping that these visits would have an effect on our countries, all of a sudden he was affected by those monarchies and military regimes, and became envious of their remaining decades in their positions, to embezzle the public wealth of the nation without supervision or accounting. So he took dictatorship and suppression of freedoms to his son and they named it the Patriot Act, under the pretence of fighting terrorism. In addition, Bush sanctioned the installing of sons as state governors, and didn't forget to import expertise in election fraud from the region's presidents to Florida to be made use of in moments of difficulty. All that we have mentioned has made it easy for us to provoke and bait this administration. All that we have to do is to send two mujahidin to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaida, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies. This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the mujahidin, bled Russia for 10 years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat. All Praise is due to Allah. So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah. That being said, those who say that al-Qaida has won against the administration in the White House or that the administration has lost in this war have not been precise, because when one scrutinises the results, one cannot say that al-Qaida is the sole factor in achieving those spectacular gains. Rather, the policy of the White House that demands the opening of war fronts to keep busy their various corporations - whether they be working in the field of arms or oil or reconstruction - has helped al-Qaida to achieve these enormous results. And so it has appeared to some analysts and diplomats that the White House and us are playing as one team towards the economic goals of the United States, even if the intentions differ. And it was to these sorts of notions and their like that the British diplomat and others were referring in their lectures at the Royal Institute of International Affairs. [When they pointed out that] for example, al-Qaida spent $500,000 on the event, while America, in the incident and its aftermath, lost - according to the lowest estimate - more than $500 billion. Meaning that every dollar of al-Qaida defeated a million dollars by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs. As for the size of the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars. And even more dangerous and bitter for America is that the mujahidin recently forced Bush to resort to emergency funds to continue the fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is evidence of the success of the bleed-until-bankruptcy plan - with Allah's permission. It is true that this shows that al-Qaida has gained, but on the other hand, it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something of which anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Halliburton and its kind, will be convinced. And it all shows that the real loser is ... you. It is the American people and their economy. And for the record, we had agreed with the Commander-General Muhammad Ataa, Allah have mercy on him, that all the operations should be carried out within 20 minutes, before Bush and his administration notice. It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would abandon 50,000 of his citizens in the twin towers to face those great horrors alone, the time when they most needed him. But because it seemed to him that occupying himself by talking to the little girl about the goat and its butting was more important than occupying himself with the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers, we were given three times the period required to execute the operations - all praise is due to Allah. And it's no secret to you that the thinkers and perceptive ones from among the Americans warned Bush before the war and told him: "All that you want for securing America and removing the weapons of mass destruction - assuming they exist - is available to you, and the nations of the world are with you in the inspections, and it is in the interest of America that it not be thrust into an unjustified war with an unknown outcome." But the darkness of the black gold blurred his vision and insight, and he gave priority to private interests over the public interests of America. So the war went ahead, the death toll rose, the American economy bled, and Bush became embroiled in the swamps of Iraq that threaten his future. He fits the saying "like the naughty she-goat who used her hoof to dig up a knife from under the earth". So I say to you, over 15,000 of our people have been killed and tens of thousands injured, while more than a thousand of you have been killed and more than 10,000 injured. And Bush's hands are stained with the blood of all those killed from both sides, all for the sake of oil and keeping their private companies in business. Be aware that it is the nation who punishes the weak man when he causes the killing of one of its citizens for money, while letting the powerful one get off, when he causes the killing of more than 1000 of its sons, also for money. And the same goes for your allies in Palestine. They terrorise the women and children, and kill and capture the men as they lie sleeping with their families on the mattresses, that you may recall that for every action, there is a reaction. Finally, it behoves you to reflect on the last wills and testaments of the thousands who left you on the 11th as they gestured in despair. They are important testaments, which should be studied and researched. Among the most important of what I read in them was some prose in their gestures before the collapse, where they say: "How mistaken we were to have allowed the White House to implement its aggressive foreign policies against the weak without supervision." It is as if they were telling you, the people of America: "Hold to account those who have caused us to be killed, and happy is he who learns from others' mistakes." And among that which I read in their gestures is a verse of poetry. "Injustice chases its people, and how unhealthy the bed of tyranny." As has been said: "An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure." And know that: "It is better to return to the truth than persist in error." And that the wise man doesn't squander his security, wealth and children for the sake of the liar in the White House. In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida. No. Your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security. And Allah is our Guardian and Helper, while you have no Guardian or Helper. All peace be upon he who follows the Guidance. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 16:46:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Fernando Pessoa... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 The following quotes: "I've never been able to admire a poet it was possible for me to see." (Bk = of Disquietude*, 121) "...written voice..." (Bk of Disquietude*, 119) * Sheep Meadow Press edition --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:55:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: the etymology of etymology & addiction In-Reply-To: <48694443.4D281FA8.001942C5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I should be warier of contributing here because I don't have access to the full thread. But it seems that the central idea of Nick's first entry has gone underappreciated. In his post of 10/30, he writes of the "sanctimonious overtones" attendant to most citations of addiction. In other words (that is if I understand Nick correctly), "addict" is a category which is 1. negatively valued (vis-a-vis some "healthy" norm), and furthermore 2. typically deployed against individuals and populations from without, i.e. by "non-addicts." It is true (and made clear in Nick's post of the following day) that people can self-identify as addicts; indeed, as the language of pathology becomes increasingly prevalent in everyday life ("I'm so depressed," etc.), such auto-diagnosis would seem to be ever more common. But the etymological evidence pretty much proves Nick's initial point. Ad + dicere: "to hand over, assign, surrender, adjudge," fine. In any case it refers to a speech act by which persons and/or things have masters assigned to them by some licensed jurist. Even Mary Jo acknowledges the idea of the punitive "sentence" lurking in the Latin. So who pronounces this sentence? The addict, or the person who names them as such? We might say that someone "sentences" him- or herself to a given condition by engaging in behaviors we deem unwise, but it's definitely "we non-addicts" who are saying it, in the same sanctimonious tone Nick was referring to. Notice that when the word "addict" is self-applied, it amounts to an acknowledgement that the speaker 1. has indulged in these behaviors (or at least has some propensity for them), and 2. shares in some measure the judgment which militates against them. If there's another way to understand the metaphor, please point it out to me. But I should think the word's affiliation to Roman legal vocabulary would make its sanctimonious kernel apparent to most readers. To anyone left unsatisfied with the language of "addiction," I might suggest the alternate metaphor of being "hooked," which seems a more visceral expression of the addict's experience, and without the censorious overtones. --Also, in response to Joseph's claim that opium "can be safely used for the entirety of one's life," I cannot resist appending the important caveat by James S. Lee (a turn-of-the-century British colonial who picked up the habit in India) that reliance on "one drug alone spells disaster." Coffee drinkers, you've been warned. For more reading, see Avital Ronell's _Crack Wars_ (just reprinted by U. of Illinois Press). My copy is in storage, so I'm unable to tell how closely my remarks parrot hers. But I haven't forgotten her paraphrase of an article by Derrida -- "Rhetorique de la drogue" I think the title is? Anyone have a citation for it? I have found both writers to be very persuasive on this and many other topics LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:01:02 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Fernando Pessoa... Reading? Baby's Head Painting: Who BY? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have that book - I actually ordered it from the US even tho I live in NZ and it was available new at Borders and I sell second hand books myself (Apect Books) on www.abebooks.com ! lol ! But I go to reading Pessoa thru a friend who is of Portuguese descent ( Hamish Dewe now actually in China ( he translates Pessoa and some Spanish poets)and read his poems with the alter egos etc in and he is an interesting/fascinating poet. But the line I remember is via hamish - something like this: "Portugal, the blazing face of Europe!" !! I was diverted into reading the classics and various things but The Book of Disquiet is waiting for me and after reading the huge bio of Pollock and am reading thru a book of the work of Hans Haacke the conceptual/ social political artist. In 1993 I was in the MOMA and I saw the famous painting of a baby's head kind of suspended (I think it must be by a South American artist possibly Matta, Siquieros or (other)(s): does anyone know the painting as it inspired part of in my Infitite Poem???? I knew of the painting before I got their (NY) but it is only since then I have made wider study of many of the artists in the brochure I got from the Guggenheim....at the time I wasnt too au fait with art...or i was less au fait.... Addendum to Save Message Numbers: I am following the elections in the US her i New Zealand on Prime (Australia's channel 9) cant see any big diff between Bush and Kerry - both are bull shit artists and rhetoricians who will keep US Imperialism flourishing and the atmosphere of fear alive: but there you go, that's my view, and what's new, such as Perloff, Monsieur Piombino, Comrade Nudel, and R S etc etc obviously disagree...they (I think) (of course I mean K & B, lol!) are both warmongers who have bought into this "War on Terror" ..I call it the "War of Terror" At a poetry reading last night the guest (Levin the Showman - who is frm South east Asia but has been in NZ for quite a time and is a politico- surreal poet I think could be defined) poet hoped for Bush to lose - another opinion. Hopefully Kerry's actual agenda is more pacific than his rhetorised one.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "furniture_ press" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: Fernando Pessoa... The following quotes: "I've never been able to admire a poet it was possible for me to see." (Bk of Disquietude*, 121) "...written voice..." (Bk of Disquietude*, 119) * Sheep Meadow Press edition -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:38:26 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: the etymology of etymology & addiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a goofd post. I'm not "addicted" to smoking but I am addicted (to use the much tangled term) to valium- I self adjudge myself to be such (I "revealed it in poem called "Hospital which is to be in Brief published locally (NZ) soon) - point here is that for years I kept it even form my own children and none of my colleagues or workmates knew; I was wise enough to know it wasnt a good idea to tell people - but now i am basically retired ) I express a 'reality' but I am also aware of the self-fulfiling aspect- since I have let it be known certain individuals (not many though) I would think were more supportive have "attacked" me or been censorious - somewhat sacntimonious - in fact they were concerned I think - others just take it in their stride but one always feels (I suffered a nervous breakdwn when I was 19) that there is a degree of hostility, fear, disgust, or just fear or prejudice toward the addict- but by and large this is not a problem most people are I feel sure so busy with their own lives this is not big deal - and also of course these days "mental illness" (I'm not mentally ill or even remotely unhappy - just a bit neurasthenic) is less a problem with people - the 'problem' is a) to what extent the addict "goes public" (to get help) and b) to what extent does my saying I am an addict (aclcoholic etc) reinforce this addiction - in other words what is the best way to work on this impediment or problem (of smoking, drinking, drug taking etc) Nick always has some excellent wisdom and I respect him in this area of etymology and psychological/philosophical/social issues etc By the way valium is (I believe) more addictive (probably much less harmful tho) than cocaine, smoking, alcohol etc - and again I acknowledge the problem with the word 's connotations and so on Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Larsen" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 10:55 AM Subject: Re: the etymology of etymology & addiction > I should be warier of contributing here because I don't have access to the > full thread. But it seems that the central idea of Nick's first entry has > gone underappreciated. In his post of 10/30, he writes of the > "sanctimonious overtones" attendant to most citations of addiction. In > other words (that is if I understand Nick correctly), "addict" is a > category which is 1. negatively valued (vis-a-vis some "healthy" norm), and > furthermore 2. typically deployed against individuals and populations from > without, i.e. by "non-addicts." It is true (and made clear in Nick's post > of the following day) that people can self-identify as addicts; indeed, as > the language of pathology becomes increasingly prevalent in everyday life > ("I'm so depressed," etc.), such auto-diagnosis would seem to be ever more > common. But the etymological evidence pretty much proves Nick's initial > point. Ad + dicere: "to hand over, assign, surrender, adjudge," fine. In > any case it refers to a speech act by which persons and/or things have > masters assigned to them by some licensed jurist. Even Mary Jo acknowledges > the idea of the punitive "sentence" lurking in the Latin. > > So who pronounces this sentence? The addict, or the person who names them > as such? We might say that someone "sentences" him- or herself to a given > condition by engaging in behaviors we deem unwise, but it's definitely "we > non-addicts" who are saying it, in the same sanctimonious tone Nick was > referring to. Notice that when the word "addict" is self-applied, it > amounts to an acknowledgement that the speaker 1. has indulged in these > behaviors (or at least has some propensity for them), and 2. shares in some > measure the judgment which militates against them. If there's another way > to understand the metaphor, please point it out to me. But I should think > the word's affiliation to Roman legal vocabulary would make its > sanctimonious kernel apparent to most readers. > > To anyone left unsatisfied with the language of "addiction," I might > suggest the alternate metaphor of being "hooked," which seems a more > visceral expression of the addict's experience, and without the censorious > overtones. --Also, in response to Joseph's claim that opium "can be safely > used for the entirety of one's life," I cannot resist appending the > important caveat by James S. Lee (a turn-of-the-century British colonial > who picked up the habit in India) that reliance on "one drug alone spells > disaster." Coffee drinkers, you've been warned. > > For more reading, see Avital Ronell's _Crack Wars_ (just reprinted by U. of > Illinois Press). My copy is in storage, so I'm unable to tell how closely > my remarks parrot hers. But I haven't forgotten her paraphrase of an > article by Derrida -- "Rhetorique de la drogue" I think the title is? > Anyone have a citation for it? I have found both writers to be very > persuasive on this and many other topics LRSN > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:41:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Fernando Pessoa... Reading? Baby's Head Painting: Who BY? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit definitelty not matta siquieros mexicann the baby head w/ the baby head coming out of its mouth may betitle is echoe of a scream or cry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 20:00:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Freedom of Choice Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed A victim of collision on the open sea Nobody ever said that life was free Sank, swam, go down with the ship But use your freedom of choice I=92ll say it again in the land of the free Use your freedom of choice Your freedom of choice! In ancient rome there was a poem About a dog who found two bones He picked at one He licked the other He went in circles He dropped dead! Freedom of choice Is what you got Freedom of choice! Then if you got it you don=92t want it Seems to be the rule of thumb Don=92t be tricked by what you see You got two ways to go I=92ll say it again in the land of the free Use your freedom of choice! Freedom of choice Freedom of choice Is what you got Freedom of choice! In ancient rome There was a poem About a dog Who found two bones He picked at one He licked the other He went in circles He dropped dead! Freedom of choice Is what you got Freedom from choice Is what you want (repeat)= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:24:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: the etymology of etymology & addiction In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20041102114356.01d94e90@socrates.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In looking over my post of a couple hours ago I'm struck by a jarring note, which is the way Mary Jo Malo's contribution (to a debate she herself began) gets minimized. "Even Mary Jo acknowledges etc." I don't know why that's phrased concessively --her insight about the "sentence" implied in the concept of addiction implies is sharp and as far as I know completely original. So I'd like it if that readjustment could be noted. Also, in the interest of full disclosure I find myself awkwardly obliged to point out that on his blog, Nick Piombino has posted some very kind remarks about my NY reading with Hassen this past weekend. Oops if the throb of gratitude in my post is poorly disguised. Wishing everyone a restful Judgment Night LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 00:39:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: +Chicks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed +Chicks < > +Chicks < > "+Dixie +Chicks < > much Chicks < > Chicks spent < > as Chicks < > couple Chicks < > are Chicks > +Chicks > "+Dixie +Chicks > much Chicks > Chicks spent > as Chicks > couple Chicks > are Chicks ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 00:40:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ruling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ruling ruling everywhere the three women determined our fates in the future world. they were the dixie chicks and they were incredibly hot. they sang and sang and the audiences were full of heart and sometimes they disagreed but they held their ground. there were religious revivals and unbelievable moments of ecstasy as amazing high notes were reached and held. what could be more beautiful than to hear the incredible dixie chicks singing their hearts out and the hostile audiences responding with care, love, and true caress. i would love to be at their concert and would love to swoon in front of the dixie chicks. i would be their slave forever, each of them equal to the others, and none of them would be ahead of the others and i would worship them equally. my name is jennifer and i want to second this account of the love and beauty of the dixie chicks and the ecstatic wonder and delight their performance inspires in me. every performance has its own beauty and its own wonder but every one of them is what i call weather-beauty because just like the weather the beauty stays forever inside me. i am nikuko and i can only agree and i do understand the many languages that are sung and spoken by the dixie chicks and they do wonder-weather me as well. someone said, well why don't you say something about the dixie chicks and so i am saying it here, this beauty they inspire and the religious revival they set in motion wherever they speak and sing. i am jennifer again and they do speak and sing so well. and i am nikuko, no this is really jennifer, i am having a wonder-fun with nikuko. we are the dixie chicks and we inspire with our singing and our talking, and our religious revival work which we do so well and full of heart and our audiences are full of warmth and heart-felt caring and we love them so. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 01:04:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: useless assholes everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed useless assholes everywhere praise be to allah who created the creation for his worship and commanded them just permitted wronged one retaliate against oppressor in kind proceed peace upon he follows guidance people of america this talk mine is you concerns ideal way prevent another manhattan deals with war its causes results before i begin say that security an indispensable pillar human life free men do not forfeit their contrary bush's claim we hate freedom if so then let him explain us why don't strike example sweden? know haters possess defiant spirits like those 19 may have mercy on no fight because are sleep under oppression want restore our nation as lay waste shall yours except a dumb thief plays others makes himself believe will secure whereas thinking when disaster strikes make it priority look order happening again but am amazed at even though fourth year after events september 11th bush still engaged distortion deception hiding from real thus reasons there repeat what occurred about story behind tell truthfully moments which decision was taken consider knows had never towers became unbearable witnessed tyranny american/israeli coalition palestine lebanon came my mind affected soul direct started 1982 israelis invade american sixth fleet helped bombardment began many were killed injured terrorised displaced couldn't forget moving scenes blood severed limbs women children sprawled everywhere houses destroyed along occupants high rises demolished over residents rockets raining down home without situation crocodile meeting helpless child powerless screams does understand conversation doesn't include weapon? whole world saw heard didn't respond difficult hard describe ideas bubbled end they produced intense feeling rejection gave birth strong resolve punish oppressors looked entered should destroy taste some tasted deterred killing day confirmed me intentional innocent deliberate policy destruction democracy while resistance terrorism intolerance means oppressing embargoing death millions sr did iraq greatest mass slaughter mankind has ever known throwing pounds bombs explosives also jr remove old agent replace new puppet assist pilfering iraq's oil other outrages these images background reply great wrongs man blamed defending sanctuary? oneself punishing aggressor objectionable terrorism? such unavoidable message sought communicate word deed repeatedly years can read wish interview scott time magazine 1996 or peter arnett cnn 1997 john weiner 1998 observe practically kenya tanzania aden abdul bari atwan well interviews robert fisk latter your compatriots co religionists neutral pretenders white house channels controlled by able run him? relay understood you? avoid correct path lead concerned it's been grace positive enormous all standards exceeded expectations due factors chief among found deal administration light resemblance bears regimes countries half ruled military sons kings presidents experience lengthy both types replete characterised pride arrogance greed misappropriation wealth visits region dazzled hoping would effect sudden monarchies envious remaining decades positions embezzle public supervision accounting took dictatorship suppression freedoms son named patriot act pretence fighting addition sanctioned installing state governors import expertise election fraud region's florida made use difficulty mentioned easy provoke bait send two mujahidin furthest point east raise piece cloth written al qaida generals race cause suffer economic political losses achieving anything note than benefits private companies having using guerrilla warfare attrition tyrannical superpowers alongside bled russia 10 until went bankrupt forced withdraw defeat continuing bleeding bankruptcy willing nothing too being said won lost precise scrutinises cannot sole factor spectacular gains rather demands opening fronts keep busy various corporations whether working field arms reconstruction achieve appeared analysts diplomats playing team towards goals united states intentions differ sorts notions british diplomat referring lectures royal institute international affairs [when pointed out that] spent $500000 event incident aftermath according lowest estimate more $500 billion meaning every dollar defeated million dollars permission besides loss huge number jobs size deficit reached record astronomical numbers estimated total trillion dangerous bitter recently resort emergency funds continue afghanistan evidence success bleed plan allah's true shows gained hand something anyone looks contracts acquired shady linked mega halliburton convinced loser economy agreed commander general muhammad ataa operations carried within 20 minutes notice armed forces abandon 50000 citizens twin face horrors alone most needed seemed occupying talking little girl goat butting important planes skyscrapers given three times period required execute secret thinkers perceptive ones americans warned told securing removing weapons assuming exist available nations inspections interest thrust into unjustified unknown outcome darkness black gold blurred vision insight interests ahead toll rose embroiled swamps threaten future fits saying naughty she used her hoof dig up knife earth 15000 tens thousands thousand 10000 hands stained sides sake keeping business aware punishes weak money letting powerful get off 1000 same goes allies terrorise kill capture lie sleeping families mattresses recall action reaction finally behoves reflect last wills testaments left gestured despair studied researched prose gestures collapse where how mistaken allowed implement aggressive foreign policies telling hold account caused happy learns others' mistakes verse poetry injustice chases unhealthy bed ounce prevention better pound cure return truth persist error wise squander liar conclusion kerry nor own play automatically guaranteed guardian helper ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 02:02:40 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wake at 3:00 leaves litter the ground move car to right side red.....drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 02:47:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Dalachinsky digs holes in the shallow uni- verse to omnify it further MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no no nono no my wife and her green card sit like pump kins in front of the tube and the bitch bush wacked us again so now you see what we are up against get out there and vote we kept shouting so they did did din't they well i'm scared aren't i and even if i agree w/what osama says he don't know that and the barbarian kerry says "they" are barbarians and the barbarian bush says "they" are the barbarians and the barbarian osama says "they" are the barbarians and we're just "waiting for the barbarians" and now we got em in 3d all of em...us included self-righteous word-slingers helpless powerless against the power of the rich and the poor and florida now took it legally so that dark matter from 2000 will only matter to the few lefties left and i smoke all those cigarettes in my head and drink all that bathtub gin and wonder about the origin of words and of this fkin species which i am a?part of/from saw hearts and minds on election night to reconfrim my love of jacking off humankind and hey funny ya gotta lose an arm and a leg or half yer mind to figure out that all those bombing missions you were on were not such a good idea and ex-prisoner of war saying to old ladies you raised us to know what's right and killing the gooks is what's right and westmoreland saying that orientals have a different philosophy than the west and that they don't value life as "WE" do...shit imagine if there were no such thing as that wretched political correctness what they'd be callin those slimey aaaarabs out loud or the kikes they so protect (HA) i'm waitin every day for em to come and get me or or african-american brothers --- HAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa - we should annex florida back to cuba that'll solve thart problem HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA - bar bar i an (s) mary jo what are ya talkin about sown sewn weird wired werd wird mary jo what bridge have you crossed the soul shrinks from its own immaturity the oldest soul on panet shtinks from its omniversality unavailable judement Foward the slum dweller does not live shelterless on the verge of starvation or sudden death i sleep in the stairway after being evicted from my penniless my four goats there beside me suckled as i was when abandoned i steal the frame of welfare the way an agent steals my cloth aggravated and frustrated like the smell of urine in a hallway where do i go when i leave here/ curbside? the end never in sight but always in sight the end never speaking i am a room full of furniture helplessly asserting my defense fenced in by my freedom consequences speaking to me like a vacuum cleaner in a puddle a coin br(e)aking the spirit reflection noted forgot nar/cissed & morphed i dwell dramaticly - an unrepaired leak a falling ceiling an incessant harangue paid for long ago where is the end in the end / due process door-to-door salesmen always trying to break my spirit where do i go in the end question mark valid merchant consequence ruined condition barest elements i am down to the high/rise up in the base/ment arbitrarily mistaken & interpreted without knowing the reason why who am you question mark with whom do you happen to deal embargo right here in my little space designed to still me with its personal whims i here your voice - Engine you are stuck w/twice that number of empties my dependency on your bitterest surpressed anger or was that mine-(?) subsisting w/in the margins on the most marginal levels where is the end????? helpless hopeless decisions mer(e) chants land/ lords we live below staircase dwellers designed to skill demands action commenced where does this city end (question mark) case closed without ever knowing the reason why......................................................... dalachinsky added- to- scramble spontaneously composed 215-230 a.m. 11/3/04 from 1971 legal sheet on welfare ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:19:22 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Dalachinsky digs holes in the shallow uni- verse to omnify it further MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seve (and Listees) - thanks for your thought that Siquieros - I can look for the painting in a book of Siqieuiros's art - the artist - the painting I mean was in the MOMA in1993 I dont supose it's there all the time - I'll 'patch' the stuff referring to it sometime. This is vital and original stuff you have here Steve I liked the first part especially - the second is good too but maybe more subtle ..maybe with more references, connections.... Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Dalachinksy" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 8:47 PM Subject: Re: Dalachinsky digs holes in the shallow uni- verse to omnify it further > no no nono no my wife and her green card sit like pump kins in front of > the tube and the bitch bush wacked us again so now you see > what we are up against get out there and vote we kept shouting so they > did did din't they > > well i'm scared aren't i and even if i agree w/what osama says he > don't know that > and the barbarian kerry says "they" are barbarians and the barbarian > bush says "they" are the barbarians > and the barbarian osama says "they" are the barbarians and we're > just "waiting for the barbarians" and now we got em in 3d all of > em...us included self-righteous word-slingers helpless powerless > against the power of the rich and the poor and florida now took it > legally so that dark matter from 2000 will only matter to the few lefties > left and i smoke all those cigarettes in my head and drink all that > bathtub gin and wonder about the origin of words and of this fkin > species which i am a?part of/from > saw hearts and minds on election night to reconfrim my love of jacking > off humankind > and hey funny ya gotta lose an arm and a leg or half yer mind to figure > out that all those bombing missions you were on were not such a good > idea and ex-prisoner of war saying to old ladies you raised us to know > what's right and killing the gooks is what's right and westmoreland > saying that orientals have a different philosophy than the west and > that they don't value life as "WE" do...shit imagine if there were no > such thing as that wretched political correctness what they'd be callin > those slimey aaaarabs out loud or the kikes they so protect (HA) i'm > waitin every day for em to come and get me or or african-american > brothers --- HAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa - we should annex florida back to cuba > that'll solve thart problem HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA - bar bar i > an (s) > mary jo what are ya talkin about sown sewn weird wired werd wird > mary jo what bridge have you crossed the soul shrinks from its own > immaturity the oldest soul on panet shtinks from its omniversality > unavailable judement > > Foward > > the slum dweller > does not live shelterless > on the verge of starvation or > sudden death > i sleep in the stairway > after being evicted from my > penniless > my four goats there beside me > suckled as i was when abandoned > i steal the frame of welfare > the way an agent steals > my cloth > aggravated and frustrated > like the smell of urine in a hallway > where do i go when i leave here/ > curbside? > the end never in sight but always > in sight the end never speaking > i am a room full of furniture > helplessly asserting my defense > fenced in by my freedom > consequences speaking to me like a vacuum > cleaner in a puddle > a coin br(e)aking the spirit > reflection noted forgot nar/cissed & > morphed > i dwell dramaticly - an unrepaired leak > a falling ceiling > an incessant harangue > paid for long ago > where is the end in the end / > due process > door-to-door salesmen always trying to break > my spirit > where do i go in the end > question mark > valid merchant consequence > ruined condition > barest elements > i am down to the high/rise > up in the base/ment > arbitrarily mistaken & interpreted > without knowing the reason why > who am you > question mark > with whom do you happen to deal > embargo > right here in my little space > designed to still me > with its personal whims > i here your voice - Engine > you are stuck w/twice that number of > empties > my dependency on your bitterest > surpressed anger or was > that mine-(?) > subsisting w/in the margins on the most marginal > levels where is the end????? > helpless hopeless decisions > mer(e) chants land/ lords > we live below > staircase dwellers > designed to skill demands > action commenced > > where does this city end (question mark) > case closed > without ever knowing the reason > why......................................................... > > dalachinsky added- to- scramble spontaneously composed 215-230 a.m. > 11/3/04 > from 1971 > legal sheet on welfare ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 04:35:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: HELP!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2UgYmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgZXhpdCBwb2xscyByZWxlYXNlZCBhdCA1UE0gRWFz dGVybiB0aW1lIChLZXJyeSB3aW5uaW5nIGJ5IGEgbG90KSBhbmQgdGhlIGhpZGVvdXMgb3V0Y29t ZSB0aGlzIGV2ZW5pbmcgaXMgc3RyaWtpbmcuDQoNCk9uZSBjb3VsZCBhc2s6IGlzIHRoZXJlIGFu eSBkaWZmZXJlbmNlIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIGV4aXQgcG9sbCAvIGZpbmFsIHJlc3VsdCBkaXNjcmVw YW5jeSBpbiANCiAgICAgICAgMS4gUHJlY2luY3RzIHRoYXQgaGF2ZSB2ZXJpZmlhYmxlIHZvdGVz IChzdWNoIGFzIHBhcGVyIGJhbGxvdHMgYW5kIGVWb3Rpbmcgd2l0aCBhIHBhcGVyIHRyYWlsIGFu ZCANCiAgICAgICAgMi4gUHJlY2luY3RzIHRoYXQgaGF2ZSBubyB3YXkgdG8gdmVyaWZ5IHJlc3Vs dHMgKHVzaW5nIHN1c3BlY3QgdG9vbHMgc3VjaCBhcyBEaWVib2xkIGVWb3RpbmcgbWFjaGluZXMp Lg0KDQpXZWxsLCBndWVzcyB3aGF0LCBhIHBvc3RlciBpbiBhIHByb2dyZXNzaXZlIGJsb2cgaGFz IGRvbmUgYSBxdWljayB0ZXN0IGFuZCAtIGxvIGFuZCBiZWhvbGQgLSBpbiBwcmVjaW5jdHMgd2hl cmUgdGhlIHZvdGVzIGFyZSB2ZXJpZmlhYmxlLCB0aGUgdm90ZXMgZmFsbCB3aXRoaW4gdGhlIG1h cmdpbiBvZiBlcnJvci4gIEJ1dCBpbiBwcmVjaW5jdHMgd2hlcmUgeW91IGNhbm5vdCB2ZXJpZnkg dGhlIHZvdGUgZ3Vlc3Mgd2hhdD8gIEJ1c2ggYW1hemluZ2x5IGdldHMgYSBmaXZlIHBvaW50IGJ1 bXAgYWJvdmUgdGhlIGV4aXQgcG9sbHMuICBKb2huIEtlcnJ5IHdvdWxkIHdpbiB0aGUgUHJlc2lk ZW5jeSBoYW5kaWx5IHdpdGggdGhvc2UgNSBwZXJjZW50YWdlIHBvaW50cy4gIEkgYW0gaG9waW5n IHRoYXQgTXIuIEtlcnJ5J3MgcGVvcGxlIHBpY2sgdXAgb24gdGhpcy4NCg0KWW91IGNhbiByZWFk IHRoaXMgYXN0b25pc2hpbmcgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBhdCBodHRwOi8vdGlueXVybC5jb20vN3lyeTYu ICBUaGlzIHN0b3J5IGlzIHNvbWV0aGluZyB0aGF0IG1heSBvciBtYXkgbm90IHVuZm9sZCBvdmVy IHRoZSBuZXh0IGZldyBkYXlzLiAgSSBzdXJlIGhvcGUgaXQgZG9lcy4gIFRoZSBmYWN0IGlzLCB0 aHJvdWdoIG5lYXJseSAzMCB5ZWFycyBvZiBleGl0IHBvbGxpbmcgdGhhdCBJIHJlbWVtYmVyLCB0 aGUgZXhpdCBwb2xscyB3ZXJlIHNwb3Qgb24uICBUaGUgZXhpdCBwb2xscyBjYWxsZWQgaXQgY29y cnJlY3RseSBpbiBGTEEgaW4gMjAwMCAtIHRoZSBuZXdzcGFwZXJzIHJlcG9ydGVkIHRoYXQgb3Zl ciAxMDAsMDAwIGxlZ2FsICdvdmVyLXZvdGVzJyBkaWQgbm90IGdldCBjb3VudGVkLiAgKE5lYXJs eSA4MCwwMDAgb2YgdGhvc2Ugd2VyZSBmb3IgR29yZS4pICANCg0KT3VyIGRlbW9jcmFjeSBoYXMg YmVlbiBzdHJpcHBlZCBhd2F5IGJ5IHRoZSBlVm90aW5nIG1hY2hpbmVzIC0gdGhpcyBpcyB3aGVy ZSB0aGUgZmlnaHQgYmVnaW5zLg0K ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:41:52 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Ignorance wins You believe Osama Bin Laden actaully Exists? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dont think that Bin Laden exists - the Right Wing and the big guys in Industry and the military are using various ploys to keep people in a state of fear,.terror etc and in all probabilty these videos of Osama are done by an actor or simulatated by technology, dubbed etc. If he even existed he is quite proabbly dead...Its neither for Bush or Kerry. It is irrelevant - they both want to continue the Capitalistic/Imperialistic system and continue the War (of) Terror WHY - if the US millitary etc are concerned about terror havent they forceably seized someone - or everyone - at the TV Station that these things are transmitted from (so they can forceably extract who was the deliverer etc - get leads to Osama -etc) The reason is because the dont want to!! They aid and abet these videos - the rulersof the world - the bourgoesie have no real democracy - they are using propaganda and terror to (for them) brilliant effect. The elections are just a kind of fireworks display. If the US really wanted to avoid terrorism they would withdraw all miltary from everywhere outside the US immediately - the truth is they need terror, they, or the state, thrives on terror -- as in 1984 the Inner Party needed the Enemy Goldstein. 1984 and Animal farm is just about all one needs to read to comprehend what is going on with US and British Imperialism in the world today. The Imperialist powers always need to keep the "pot boiling" they never really wnat democracy anywhere (treu participatory frdeomcracy) and they NEED enemies -imagimary or real or both. They also use fear of gays etc - hence the high concern about marriages bewteen gays which Bush played with to excellent effect....It is very echoic of a certain gentleman(men) extant in Deustchland in the 1930s....... This doesn't alter the truth of much that is said here by Lawrence. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Sawyer" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 2:33 PM Subject: Re: Ignorance wins > It seems frightening to most that the Republican watchdogs who have > been reminding us ad nauseum that they are defending our security are > also the very same people responsible for the inept failure that has > prolonged this nation's battle with Muslim extremists like Osama Bin > Laden. How Republicans can point to Bin Laden's latest video as proof > we need another four years of George W. Bush is mystifying at best. The > Bush Administration failed to find Bin Laden then declared war on a > country that had nothing to do with the horror of September 11. That > this last statement is still debatable to some points to the greater > problem that may put Bush right back in the White House. No one > anywhere is relying on facts to make the decisions that threaten all > our lives. The Bush coterie based their decisions on faulty > intelligence (remember Colin Powell holding up satellite images when he > spoke before the UN?), the American people are picking and choosing > information without bothering to do the research necessary to making an > informed decision, and Muslim extremist leaders are spewing their own > skewed mantras of hate in an attempt to gain the future following that > will perpetuate their war against the West. Nowhere is rational > discourse to be found and few are interested in any information that > doesn't support their preconceived notions. In fact most seem to harbor > a real fear of discovering the truth and therefore make a conscious > effort to avoid it. The bipartisan unity that resulted from the attack > on the WTC has long disappeared and has been replaced by pathetic > trickery and deception. > > November 2 will be the day America decides whether democracy is > worthwhile. Ignorance wins. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 06:56:16 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Finish Counting the Votes Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The Republicans of course would rather stop the contest now before all the votes are even counted. What they want to do now is start the manipulation machine rolling-- so Republicans simply declare victory and throw money at the problem. This is not over. How about you finish counting the votes Ohio?! If Kerry concedes all is lost. e-mail friends and family in Ohio if need be and declare Kerry the winner of this election! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:07:00 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: sowing, jeering, and cheering from the bridge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You send me your poems, I'll send you mine. Things tend to awaken even through random communication. Let us suddenly proclaim spring. And jeer at the others, all the others, I will send a picture too if you will send me one of you. The Conspiracy from For Love Robert Creeley Collected Poems 1982 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 09:38:16 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Kleptocracy Poised For Business As Usual Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Election Day Dawns With Utter Predictability: Kleptocracy Poised For Business As Usual: American Empire Still Pouring In Hot Lead Around The World: Introducing Military Draft Might Be Easier With Kerry By ZBIG BALLZ and DERAFT BRUDER-MUDER They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 07:03:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: as we morn our dead In-Reply-To: <007d01c4c189$59c85cc0$a6f137d2@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as we morn our dead and this election hangs in the the dirty hands of lawyers, I see nothing but great hordes of greedy red eyed beasts stomping down the street to walmart, killing queers and consuming plastic by-productst, defecating biohazard material in every direction, mindless of the hungry and the suffocating I resign in disgrace again and again and again from this empire. I want nothing more to do with this institution within an institution within an institution, this a piece of rotting meat rotting on a meat hook waiting to feed its obese populous. this aging empire, this worshiping godcock land, eats its own, promotes greed, hate, bigotry and war to maintain its toaster oven degree producing factories and its instant mash potatoes tomorrows... the only option left is to let this country rot and sink into oblivion, any truly revolutionary spirit is coughing its compromised lungs out searching for a better all consuming zone of liberal virtual safety, an extra outlet, and flush toilets... let it sink, let it rot, let this cancer eat itself alive.. I seek asylum, I renounce my citizenship, I renounce this land of slave owners its time to live a dangerous life and die trying...to pull away from this land, and renounce it all... let it sink praying to its godcock, let this country sink into its own waste find a land to move to. abandon ship and let the rats rule... I am officially seeking asylum in any country that will take me.. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:09:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Dalachinsky digs holes in the shallow uni- verse to omnify it further MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit waking up the day after tomorrow (actually after only a small nap) and hoping that Bush does not hurt all those who supported him I welcome Mary Jo's and Steve's almost uncomfortable direct approaches-- naming names-- with fearless abandon-- because of them we have a real hope of changing the terms of battle many of us are tired of condescension, of causual, unconscious elitism, of shop-worn P. C. pieties they're a welcome dart directed at complacency, especially since many of us (meself included) squalked and crowed... bring on the mix... and count every vote... or live in a Christian nation, forced to genuflect each time King George breaks wind... Gerald > no no nono no my wife and her green card sit like pump kins in front of > the tube and the bitch bush wacked us again so now you see > what we are up against get out there and vote we kept shouting so they > did did din't they > > well i'm scared aren't i and even if i agree w/what osama says he > don't know that > and the barbarian kerry says "they" are barbarians and the barbarian > bush says "they" are the barbarians > and the barbarian osama says "they" are the barbarians and we're > just "waiting for the barbarians" and now we got em in 3d all of > em...us included self-righteous word-slingers helpless powerless > against the power of the rich and the poor and florida now took it > legally so that dark matter from 2000 will only matter to the few lefties > left and i smoke all those cigarettes in my head and drink all that > bathtub gin and wonder about the origin of words and of this fkin > species which i am a?part of/from > saw hearts and minds on election night to reconfrim my love of jacking > off humankind > and hey funny ya gotta lose an arm and a leg or half yer mind to figure > out that all those bombing missions you were on were not such a good > idea and ex-prisoner of war saying to old ladies you raised us to know > what's right and killing the gooks is what's right and westmoreland > saying that orientals have a different philosophy than the west and > that they don't value life as "WE" do...shit imagine if there were no > such thing as that wretched political correctness what they'd be callin > those slimey aaaarabs out loud or the kikes they so protect (HA) i'm > waitin every day for em to come and get me or or african-american > brothers --- HAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa - we should annex florida back to cuba > that'll solve thart problem HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA - bar bar i > an (s) > mary jo what are ya talkin about sown sewn weird wired werd wird > mary jo what bridge have you crossed the soul shrinks from its own > immaturity the oldest soul on panet shtinks from its omniversality > unavailable judement > > Foward > > the slum dweller > does not live shelterless > on the verge of starvation or > sudden death > i sleep in the stairway > after being evicted from my > penniless > my four goats there beside me > suckled as i was when abandoned > i steal the frame of welfare > the way an agent steals > my cloth > aggravated and frustrated > like the smell of urine in a hallway > where do i go when i leave here/ > curbside? > the end never in sight but always > in sight the end never speaking > i am a room full of furniture > helplessly asserting my defense > fenced in by my freedom > consequences speaking to me like a vacuum > cleaner in a puddle > a coin br(e)aking the spirit > reflection noted forgot nar/cissed & > morphed > i dwell dramaticly - an unrepaired leak > a falling ceiling > an incessant harangue > paid for long ago > where is the end in the end / > due process > door-to-door salesmen always trying to break > my spirit > where do i go in the end > question mark > valid merchant consequence > ruined condition > barest elements > i am down to the high/rise > up in the base/ment > arbitrarily mistaken & interpreted > without knowing the reason why > who am you > question mark > with whom do you happen to deal > embargo > right here in my little space > designed to still me > with its personal whims > i here your voice - Engine > you are stuck w/twice that number of > empties > my dependency on your bitterest > surpressed anger or was > that mine-(?) > subsisting w/in the margins on the most marginal > levels where is the end????? > helpless hopeless decisions > mer(e) chants land/ lords > we live below > staircase dwellers > designed to skill demands > action commenced > > where does this city end (question mark) > case closed > without ever knowing the reason > why......................................................... > > dalachinsky added- to- scramble spontaneously composed 215-230 a.m. > 11/3/04 > from 1971 > legal sheet on welfare ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:16:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Ignorance wins You believe Osama Bin Laden actaully Exists? In-Reply-To: <007d01c4c189$59c85cc0$a6f137d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard I've wondered if Bin Laden is real, or maybe I should say really the villain that the government makes him out to be. After all, the CIA trained him, and he appears to have ties with the Bushes. He's come across as a charismatic embodiment of Evil---the turban, long beard, why not add a magic carpet?--- that seems to come out of a wicked fairy tale. The 1984 analogy is right on the money; I've been using it for some time, myself. At times, I suspect he's not living in a cave in a mountain near some border, but in a very comfortable palace that he probably never leaves. Maybe he is a political fiction. Apparently we're going to have another four years to observe the effectiveness of the Big Lie technique. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of richard.tylr Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 4:42 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Ignorance wins You believe Osama Bin Laden actaully Exists? I dont think that Bin Laden exists - the Right Wing and the big guys in Industry and the military are using various ploys to keep people in a state of fear,.terror etc and in all probabilty these videos of Osama are done by an actor or simulatated by technology, dubbed etc. If he even existed he is quite proabbly dead...Its neither for Bush or Kerry. It is irrelevant - they both want to continue the Capitalistic/Imperialistic system and continue the War (of) Terror WHY - if the US millitary etc are concerned about terror havent they forceably seized someone - or everyone - at the TV Station that these things are transmitted from (so they can forceably extract who was the deliverer etc - get leads to Osama -etc) The reason is because the dont want to!! They aid and abet these videos - the rulersof the world - the bourgoesie have no real democracy - they are using propaganda and terror to (for them) brilliant effect. The elections are just a kind of fireworks display. If the US really wanted to avoid terrorism they would withdraw all miltary from everywhere outside the US immediately - the truth is they need terror, they, or the state, thrives on terror -- as in 1984 the Inner Party needed the Enemy Goldstein. 1984 and Animal farm is just about all one needs to read to comprehend what is going on with US and British Imperialism in the world today. The Imperialist powers always need to keep the "pot boiling" they never really wnat democracy anywhere (treu participatory frdeomcracy) and they NEED enemies -imagimary or real or both. They also use fear of gays etc - hence the high concern about marriages bewteen gays which Bush played with to excellent effect....It is very echoic of a certain gentleman(men) extant in Deustchland in the 1930s....... This doesn't alter the truth of much that is said here by Lawrence. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Sawyer" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 2:33 PM Subject: Re: Ignorance wins > It seems frightening to most that the Republican watchdogs who have > been reminding us ad nauseum that they are defending our security are > also the very same people responsible for the inept failure that has > prolonged this nation's battle with Muslim extremists like Osama Bin > Laden. How Republicans can point to Bin Laden's latest video as proof > we need another four years of George W. Bush is mystifying at best. The > Bush Administration failed to find Bin Laden then declared war on a > country that had nothing to do with the horror of September 11. That > this last statement is still debatable to some points to the greater > problem that may put Bush right back in the White House. No one > anywhere is relying on facts to make the decisions that threaten all > our lives. The Bush coterie based their decisions on faulty > intelligence (remember Colin Powell holding up satellite images when he > spoke before the UN?), the American people are picking and choosing > information without bothering to do the research necessary to making an > informed decision, and Muslim extremist leaders are spewing their own > skewed mantras of hate in an attempt to gain the future following that > will perpetuate their war against the West. Nowhere is rational > discourse to be found and few are interested in any information that > doesn't support their preconceived notions. In fact most seem to harbor > a real fear of discovering the truth and therefore make a conscious > effort to avoid it. The bipartisan unity that resulted from the attack > on the WTC has long disappeared and has been replaced by pathetic > trickery and deception. > > November 2 will be the day America decides whether democracy is > worthwhile. Ignorance wins. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:29:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: time for a new start (inchoate, but a start) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I took time off from election work to go to the day of the dead parade last night. If you don=B9t know about the day of the dead parade, it=B9s a slow parade that begins at 24th and Bryant and winds its way up 25th to officially end aroun= d 24th and Mission. It=B9s short in terms of distance, but it stops a lot, whic= h made it do-able for the current state of my leg. I prefer it to Halloween, because it alternates between a somber and a festive tone. Both moods, in fact, may be felt at the same time. Sure, there is a kind of =B3party atmosphere=B2 with loud drums, costumes, incenses, and people walking around on stilts, but the candles that people hold tends to make more room for the darkness and the silence than many of the holidays in the =B3dark half=B2 of th= e year (such as the Christmas blitz), and, yes, There is a haunting feeling, = a purge, and if I had both my legs, there may have even been a physical catharsis. In any event, not the silly commercial Halloween goblin =B3boo=B2 bu= t the tables set for the dead in the park. Even the most =B3secular=B2 or least =B3superstitious=B2 may come to feel in a slow dreamlike walk that the line between the living and the dead is more permeable than the everyday hustle and bustle of western civilized society. Now the fact that it was election day may have just added to that feeling, and soon I found myself over at The Dark Room for the Pirate Cat Radio Election Coverage, which brought one back to a =B3reality=B2 that must be contended with, a reality I think many of us have got to make sense of, and try to figure out how to do something about. For the last few months, I=B9ve been thinking more than usual about the kind of questions raised in =B3What=B9s The Matter With Kansas? HOW CONSERVATIVES WO= N THE HEART OF AMERICA=B2 by Thomas Frank, and with the election results in, there=B9s a feeling of helplessness, coupled with an anger, but also an attempt at humility. For instance, a side to me wants to scream, =B3THE DEMOCRATS ARE REALLY =B3SCREWED=B9=B2 So Much For Checks And Balances. No President, No House, No Senate, and No Supreme Court Majority. But to even say the word =B3SCREWED=B2 would probably be taken as a flippant side of some literally MARGINALIZED BORDER (if not exactly COASTAL) =B3ELITE=B2 that is out of touch with the large majority of the geographical middle of the United States (as all the blue states, I=B9m pretty sure, are either on the margins of America, or contiguou= s with states that are). If you don=B9t want to be the flippant, cultural elite snob, it=B9s time to really try to figure out what=B9s going on with people in the middle of the country who think Bush is a good president, and not just see them as either deluded or deluding. So I watch Peter Jennings interviewing the head of the Republican National Committee After if had become pretty obvious that Bush had won, and I try to imagine how most people in the =B3red states=B2 might see Jennings as part of that =B3liberal media=B2 of the =B3cultural elite,=B2 and sure enough, with those eyes and ears, he can be seen as disrespectfully grilling the Republican. =B3Well, in the exit polls in the blue states, most people claim the war in Iraq was their main consideration in voting for the President, while in the red states, most people claimed =8Cmoral issues=B9 were more important.=B2 Jennings=B9 snide attitude towards these =8Cmoral issues=B9 was no more =8Cfair and balanced=B9 than Fox=B9s attitudes toward Kerry. Of course, I=B9m sympathetic wit= h Jennings. For surely, The war in Iraq IS a moral issue at least as much as others. But if this exit poll does hold any salt, it is interesting that neither side considere= d economic issues to be of as much importance as the moral issues involved, and there=B9s at least a strong POSSIBILITY that many in the =B3red states=B2 actually voted for Bush in part because they=B9re sick of these right and left coast city slickers they see on TV telling the= m (in varying degrees of directness) they=B9re stupid and/or evil for voting fo= r Bush. So, is this the same kind of culture wars going on that went on in =B3Inherit The Wind=B2 (the Scopes Monkey Trial)? Does anybody else who lives on the coast have this horrible dream in which the man has jumped out of that old painting, =B3American Gothic,=B2 and is chasing people around with his pitchfork? Has any chance of an alliance between =B3city=B2 and =B3country=B2 become impossibl= e in the current divisiveness? If one is not a Bush supporter, this election result is even more depressin= g than the 2000 one for many reasons. To take the first three that come off the top of my head:1) The electoral college can=B9t be blamed as much. 2) Election fraud can=B9t be blamed as much. 3) Nader can=B9t be blamed as much. We=B9re almost forced to take the medicine that the will of the people went with George Bush, a Republican majority in both houses of congress, etc. Sure, there are ways to spin it otherwise. In the first place, the ELECTORA= L MAP with its red states and blue states does create the false illusion that most of America=B9s heartland was SOLIDLY FOR BUSH; that a 4000 mile drive from Virginia, south to Florida, West to Texas, North to North Dakota, West to Idaho, for instance, would be a drive through BUSH COUNTRY. That=B9s just the semiotics of it. In many of those states, at least 40% of the votes wen= t for Kerry, so obviously it=B9s not a clear cut division, and obviously many i= n those states are upset by the outcome too (some even argue that if many people who are natives of those states wouldn=B9t have up and left to move to the coastal states, the electoral picture would=B9ve been quite different). But what solace can be taken in that? It would be even more hopeless a gesture of =B3sour grapes=B2 to argue now that WE NEED TO DO AWAY WITH THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM for instance--- And thoughts of CIVIL WAR, or SUCCEEDING FROM THE UNION, are even less likely to become a reality, in part because the geography breakup of Americ= a would be even more striking than what would have happened in Canada a few years back had the Quebecois gotten 1% more of the vote. Sure, we could als= o continue to talk about election fraud, not just about people not being allowed to vote, but more structurally about how only the very rich can run for president or even congress in most cases=8B But can the anti-Bush coalition truly take any positives from this election= ? Isn=B9t it part of a larger trend in which the mainstream of America is movin= g further and further away from the great populist spirit of say FDR? Hell, even after WATERGATE, a conservative democrat, could barely squeak his way into the white house (8, 000 votes in Ohio would=B9ve decided it), and Clinto= n probably wouldn=B9t have won without Ross Perot. At least the Democrats had at least one of the houses of congress back in those days. I think many took solace in 2000 that Gore really had won (and he certainly won the popular vote), even with all his mistakes, and given the fact that Kerry did better in the debates in 2004 than Gore did in 2000, many may hav= e felt this election would be at least as close (of course the media also may have made it seem closer---in this I actually AGREE WITH RUSH LIMBAUGH=8Bin order to get more people to watch a long drawn out ELECTION COVERAGE NIGHT: THE SEQUEL. In fact, their slowness in calling states last night seemed a crass move to sell more advertising!) It was =B3Close=B2 enough that many now say they are ABSOLUTELY DISENFRANCHISED= , but what to do about it? Riot in the streets? Hope for an apocalypse of some sort, another Al Qaeda attack, or wait for the Iraqi casualties to roll in? Wait for the economy to get worse and worse in the red states, like another =B3Dust bowl=B2 that will suddenly make people realize that economic issues matter as much, and maybe more, than legislating morality? (Why DO people in Kansas care if people are gay, or pro-choice, etc., on th= e coasts, or in the bigger cities?) NONE OF THESE OPTIONS SEEMS TO BE THE RIGHT WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS DEFEAT Can we be gracious in defeat? And how to do that without =B3rolling over?=B2 Maybe just maybe it=B9s really time for a general stock taking of traditional Democratic values, on a large scale. Some could say it=B9s just about the candidate=8Blet=B9s find someone better next time--- Maybe it=B9s time the Democrats look for a woman presidential candidate. It would HAVE TO BE another southerner, someone popular in the south, west, or Midwest swing state. I don=B9t want to just get into the =B3I TOLD YOU SO=B2 to all those democrats who voted for Kerry in the primaries because he was mor= e =B3electable.=B2 A Mass. Senator! A little more charisma, etc=8A.. But maybe the question of values needs to be addressed more thoroughly on a larger scale. One =B3RED HERRING=B2 for the democrats has generally been the support of gun-control, and the way that seems inconsistent with their pro-choice stance on other issues. But how to deal with the social conservatives in the heartland? Maybe the condescending attitude towards them from many =B3in the blue=B2 IS a problem. Maybe there should be more sit-coms, or reality TV shows, based in =B3UNGLAMOUROUS=B2 places like NEBRASKA. Maybe this election indeed was A kind of revenge by these people for having to watch and listen to so much programming that is biased towards a city life, city values, etc--- I.E.---=B3THEY=B2 (of the red) know more about =B3US=B2 (of the BLUE) than we know of them! And seriously I do believe there an be a common ground between the =B3red=B2 an= d the =B3blue,=B2 but it=B9s not going to be found through electoral politics, and it=B9s currently not found very much in the national entertainment/infotainment industry either (not even for the most part in the poetry world; though maybe in FOOTBALL, with its salary cap that gives the people in many red states a fighting chance against the money powers), More later=8A.. Chris ---------- >From: Lawrence Sawyer >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Finish Counting the Votes >Date: Wed, Nov 3, 2004, 4:56 AM > > The Republicans of course would rather stop the contest now before > all the votes are even counted. > > What they want to do now is start the manipulation machine rolling-- > so Republicans simply declare victory and throw money at the problem. > > This is not over. How about you finish counting the votes Ohio?! > > If Kerry concedes all is lost. e-mail friends and family in > Ohio if need be and declare Kerry the winner of this election! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:15:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Finish Counting the Votes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Too little too late. According to the AP, Kerry's already called Bush to concede. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ { The Republicans of course would rather stop the contest now before { all the votes are even counted. { { What they want to do now is start the manipulation machine rolling-- { so Republicans simply declare victory and throw money at the problem. { { This is not over. How about you finish counting the votes Ohio?! { { If Kerry concedes all is lost. e-mail friends and family in { Ohio if need be and declare Kerry the winner of this election! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:37:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: HELP!! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone sent this to Salon.com? They're the only ones that might possibly take a crack at it. Nobody else is going to touch it. I'm sending it out to my list and to friends in Europe... DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Stephen Miller Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 1:35 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: HELP!! The difference between the exit polls released at 5PM Eastern time (Kerry winning by a lot) and the hideous outcome this evening is striking. One could ask: is there any difference between the exit poll / final result discrepancy in 1. Precincts that have verifiable votes (such as paper ballots and eVoting with a paper trail and 2. Precincts that have no way to verify results (using suspect tools such as Diebold eVoting machines). Well, guess what, a poster in a progressive blog has done a quick test and - lo and behold - in precincts where the votes are verifiable, the votes fall within the margin of error. But in precincts where you cannot verify the vote guess what? Bush amazingly gets a five point bump above the exit polls. John Kerry would win the Presidency handily with those 5 percentage points. I am hoping that Mr. Kerry's people pick up on this. You can read this astonishing discussion at http://tinyurl.com/7yry6. This story is something that may or may not unfold over the next few days. I sure hope it does. The fact is, through nearly 30 years of exit polling that I remember, the exit polls were spot on. The exit polls called it corrrectly in FLA in 2000 - the newspapers reported that over 100,000 legal 'over-votes' did not get counted. (Nearly 80,000 of those were for Gore.) Our democracy has been stripped away by the eVoting machines - this is where the fight begins. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:31:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poets House Subject: Laura (Riding) Jackson: A Panel Discussion at Poets House on 11/4/04 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Laura (Riding) Jackson: A Panel Discussion with Laurel Blossom, Forrest Gander, Elizabeth Friedmann & Lisa Samuels Thursday, November 4, 7pm Poets House, 72 Spring Street, NYC $7, Free for Members Poets and scholars gather to examine the work of Laura (Riding) Jackson (1901-1991). A prolific poet who published her Collected Poems at age 37 an= d renounced poetry one year later, Laura (Riding) Jackson continued to explor= e the relationship between truth and language in such prose works as Rational Meaning: A New Foundation for the Definition of Words. As a board member of the Laura Riding Jackson Foundation, Laurel Blossom ha= s taught, lectured and published book reviews about Laura Riding Jackson=B9s work. Blossom is also the author of several books of poetry, most recently Wednesday: New and Selected Poems. Elizabeth Friedmann is the author of A Mannered Grace: The Life of Laura (Riding) Jackson and editor of The Laura (Riding) Jackson Reader, both published this year. She co-edited First Awakenings: The Early Poems of Laura Riding as well as The Word =8CWoman=B9 and Other Related Writings by Laur= a (Riding) Jackson. Forrest Gander is the Director of the Graduate Program in Literary Arts/Creative Writing at Brown University, co-editor of the literary press Lost Roads Publishers and author of five poetry books, including Science an= d Steepleflower and Torn Awake. Lisa Samuels is Assistant Professor of English and Creative Writing at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. She has published a poetry collection, The Seven Voices, and a critical edition of Laura Riding=B9s Anarchism Is Not Enough. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:59:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: Finish Counting the Votes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm extremely depressed this morning. As I'm sure many others are. Nightmares all last night -- the pod people coming to take me away. Rant all you want -- and I'm sure I'll rant plenty -- it's over. The only hope is that the evote fraud story has "legs," but that doesn't seem likely. I actually found myself fantasizing about the Governator somehow being able to run in 2008, because the only challenge for this regime may come from the socially liberal/fiscally conservative side of its own party (i.e. Giuliani and Schwarzenegger et al.). Seriously -- we could be looking at 20 years of neocon dominance, with the Dems helpless to stop it. The most depressing moment of all, for me, was when someone at CBS took a closer look at individual counties in Ohio. there was one county -- I forget which -- that had lost more jobs than any other in the state, and those voters always go democrat. well, guess what? they didn't this time. Why? "Moral issues" i.e. abortion and gay marriage and stem cell research. As several have pointed out on this list, at some point midway through the 2nd pres. debate Bush (or whoever was controlling him) just said, "screw it, I'm not going to try to win these debates, I'm going to speak to my base." Phrases like "culture of life" began to dominate his responses, and he began to call Kerry "senator kennedy." Karl Rove had seen something important about cutting to the chase and appealing to these people directly, turning what had been their biggest weakness (it was divisiveness over these issues that crashed the Republican party in 1992) into their biggest strength. the democratic party is in "shatters," to use Kerry's term. DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Lawrence Sawyer Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 4:56 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Finish Counting the Votes The Republicans of course would rather stop the contest now before all the votes are even counted. What they want to do now is start the manipulation machine rolling-- so Republicans simply declare victory and throw money at the problem. This is not over. How about you finish counting the votes Ohio?! If Kerry concedes all is lost. e-mail friends and family in Ohio if need be and declare Kerry the winner of this election! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:51:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Tracie Morris and Charles Bernstein at Barnard, 11/3 (NYC) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Wednesday, November 3 7:00pm (note: time was incorrect on previous post to the list) Tracie Morris and Charles Bernstein (poetry, even, especially, in a time of sorrow and disbelief, shock and anger, despair and defiance) James Room, Barnard Hall Barnard College, Columbia University 117th Street and Broadway, New York no admission charge refreshments served http://www.barnard.edu/writers/poets.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 09:42:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: flora fair Subject: Re: Finish Counting the Votes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What is more alarming than anything is that a majority of voters chose Bush based on issues of morality. What are they talking about? Is being afraid of science, wreckless with the environment, backwards with women's rights, ignorant of the economy, elitist with health care and arrogant on public policy the new morality? Are they for real? Uh ... maybe I'm preaching to the choir. Let me just say, as a resident of Florida, I'm sorry. Halvard Johnson wrote: Too little too late. According to the AP, Kerry's already called Bush to concede. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ { The Republicans of course would rather stop the contest now before { all the votes are even counted. { { What they want to do now is start the manipulation machine rolling-- { so Republicans simply declare victory and throw money at the problem. { { This is not over. How about you finish counting the votes Ohio?! { { If Kerry concedes all is lost. e-mail friends and family in { Ohio if need be and declare Kerry the winner of this election! --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 09:50:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: as we morn our dead In-Reply-To: <7A5805B0-2DA9-11D9-AF09-003065AC6058@sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed After all the talk of Iraq and jobs and fear-mongering, the election results seem to have added up to this: Missionary Position 1 Homophobia 0 As for asylum, I have longed for spending my declining years hanging out in Coffee Houses in Amsterdam obliterating my mind with endless hashish. A good way to go. However, I suggest that people gain some perspective, and identify with how long-suffering people can survive. As a Jew, I have a historic imprint of living for centuries on the margins and worse, and even today, supposedly elevated by Israel, I feel betrayed. Think of the Palestinians living a half century in refugee camps (a drop in the bucket of suffering, except when you consider what it's like to be born and grow up in a giant jail or living under occupation). How many years of slavery, how many years of the "nadir" of Jim Crow have Black people survived? How many centuries of burning witches? So, don't loose your spirit. We have the solidarity of the entire world, and we can build a world-wide front against the US empire and religious extremism of all types. I do imagine attending a meeting in Amsterdam of The Anti-Imperialist Committee in Solidarity with the American People . . . in a delicious haze of forgetfulness. Love to all, Hilton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:53:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Heidi Lynn Staples =?ISO-8859-1?B?bull?= Peppermint Subject: Re: HELP!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit strangely strangling handily who-dun-itly cannot get onto the link with the discussion. today get an error message. last night got an error massage. > From: David Hadbawnik > Date: 2004/11/03 Wed AM 10:37:03 CST > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: HELP!! > > Has anyone sent this to Salon.com? They're the > only ones that might possibly take a crack at it. > Nobody else is going to touch it. I'm sending it > out to my list and to friends in Europe... > > DH > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of > Stephen Miller > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 1:35 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: HELP!! > > The difference between the exit polls released at > 5PM Eastern time (Kerry winning by a lot) and the > hideous outcome this evening is striking. > > One could ask: is there any difference between the > exit poll / final result discrepancy in > 1. Precincts that have verifiable votes > (such as paper ballots and eVoting with a paper > trail and > 2. Precincts that have no way to verify > results (using suspect tools such as Diebold > eVoting machines). > > Well, guess what, a poster in a progressive blog > has done a quick test and - lo and behold - in > precincts where the votes are verifiable, the > votes fall within the margin of error. But in > precincts where you cannot verify the vote guess > what? Bush amazingly gets a five point bump above > the exit polls. John Kerry would win the > Presidency handily with those 5 percentage points. > I am hoping that Mr. Kerry's people pick up on > this. > > You can read this astonishing discussion at > http://tinyurl.com/7yry6. This story is something > that may or may not unfold over the next few days. > I sure hope it does. The fact is, through nearly > 30 years of exit polling that I remember, the exit > polls were spot on. The exit polls called it > corrrectly in FLA in 2000 - the newspapers > reported that over 100,000 legal 'over-votes' did > not get counted. (Nearly 80,000 of those were for > Gore.) > > Our democracy has been stripped away by the > eVoting machines - this is where the fight begins. > Heidi Lynn Staples GUESS CAN GALLOP (New Issues) http://www.wmich.edu/newissues/New_Issues_Titles/Staples/Staples_Page_Frameset.html available for online purchase at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930974442/qid=1096222956/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-8422421-0966239?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 PARAKEET editors@parakeetmag.org 115 Roosevelt Avenue Syracuse, New York 13210 315-472-9710 blog: http://mildredsumbrella.blogspot.com "To makes u."--Gertrude Stein ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 09:53:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Election: Walking #84 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Let the trees & shrubs absorb the shock Not one lover or friend deserves this: 'The Election' Climb the highest hill, indeed Or descend into the lowest valley Is one ready to resist Repression? It's no longer 'If' but 'When' "And the rockets gave way," etc. Welcome to the big "A", America Welcome to the big "R" There will be little precedence for this "Salvation" Is one ready to organize (again)? The inevitable pronounces itself Breathe, she says, breathe Find the internal 'humm' Find it, breathe it Let's go - only as one can - from there. Stephen Vincent Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:07:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Murray, Christine" Subject: This Saturday! Poetry_Heat Reading: Dale Smith, Hoa Nguyen, Randy Prus, Mark Weiss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reading this weekend in the Poetry_Heat series at University of Texas, = Arlington: Randy Prus, Dale Smith, Hoa Nguyen, Mark Weiss 7:00 pm Saturday, November 6 Rady Room, Nedderman Hall University of Texas, Arlington email me if you'd like links to campus maps or directions to the Rady = Room. I hope to see you there! Best Wishes, Chris Murray http://texfiles.blogspot.com http://e-po.blogspot.com http://uta.edu/english/znine =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:22:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Dalachinsky digs holes in the shallow uni- verse to omnify it further MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if it's the painting i'm thinking of it's part of permanent collection and usually hangs in hall on 2nd floor but now moma will be reopened after renovation more money as usual 20 buck admission fee.....so who knows where it'll hang noww power power gotta get coffee moreafter midnight ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:32:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: "America I've given you all... In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Ginsberg-- America I've given you all and now I'm nothing. America two dollars and twenty-seven cents January 17, 1956. I can't stand my own mind. America when will we end the human war? Go fuck yourself with your atom bomb I don't feel good don't bother me. I won't write my poem till I'm in my right mind. America when will you be angelic? When will you take off your clothes? When will you look at yourself through the grave? When will you be worthy of your million Trotskyites? America why are your libraries full of tears? America when will you send your eggs to India? I'm sick of your insane demands. When can I go into the supermarket and buy what I need with my good looks? America after all it is you and I who are perfect not the next world. Your machinery is too much for me. You made me want to be a saint. There must be some other way to settle this argument. Burroughs is in Tangiers I don't think he'll come back it's sinister. Are you being sinister or is this some form of practical joke? I'm trying to come to the point. I refuse to give up my obsession. America stop pushing I know what I'm doing. America the plum blossoms are falling. I haven't read the newspapers for months, everyday somebody goes on trial for murder. America I feel sentimental about the Wobblies. America I used to be a communist when I was a kid and I'm not sorry. I smoke marijuana every chance I get. I sit in my house for days on end and stare at the roses in the closet. When I go to Chinatown I get drunk and never get laid. My mind is made up there's going to be trouble. You should have seen me reading Marx. My psychoanalyst thinks I'm perfectly right. I won't say the Lord's Prayer. I have mystical visions and cosmic vibrations. America I still haven't told you what you did to Uncle Max after he came over from Russia. I'm addressing you. Are you going to let our emotional life be run by Time Magazine? I'm obsessed by Time Magazine. I read it every week. Its cover stares at me every time I slink past the corner candystore. I read it in the basement of the Berkeley Public Library. It's always telling me about responsibility. Businessmen are serious. Movie producers are serious. Everybody's serious but me. It occurs to me that I am America. I am talking to myself again. Asia is rising against me. I haven't got a chinaman's chance. I'd better consider my national resources. My national resources consist of two joints of marijuana millions of genitals an unpublishable private literature that goes 1400 miles and hour and twentyfivethousand mental institutions. I say nothing about my prisons nor the millions of underpriviliged who live in my flowerpots under the light of five hundred suns. I have abolished the whorehouses of France, Tangiers is the next to go. My ambition is to be President despite the fact that I'm a Catholic. America how can I write a holy litany in your silly mood? I will continue like Henry Ford my strophes are as individual as his automobiles more so they're all different sexes America I will sell you strophes $2500 apiece $500 down on your old strophe America free Tom Mooney America save the Spanish Loyalists America Sacco & Vanzetti must not die America I am the Scottsboro boys. America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell meetings they sold us garbanzos a handful per ticket a ticket costs a nickel and the speeches were free everybody was angelic and sentimental about the workers it was all so sincere you have no idea what a good thing the party was in 1935 Scott Nearing was a grand old man a real mensch Mother Bloor made me cry I once saw Israel Amter plain. Everybody must have been a spy. America you don're really want to go to war. America it's them bad Russians. Them Russians them Russians and them Chinamen. And them Russians. The Russia wants to eat us alive. The Russia's power mad. She wants to take our cars from out our garages. Her wants to grab Chicago. Her needs a Red Reader's Digest. her wants our auto plants in Siberia. Him big bureaucracy running our fillingstations. That no good. Ugh. Him makes Indians learn read. Him need big black niggers. Hah. Her make us all work sixteen hours a day. Help. America this is quite serious. America this is the impression I get from looking in the television set. America is this correct? I'd better get right down to the job. It's true I don't want to join the Army or turn lathes in precision parts factories, I'm nearsighted and psychopathic anyway. America I'm putting my queer shoulder to the wheel. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:39:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Ezra Pound conferences or symposia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a friend in Beijing, a Pound scholar, who can get a travel grant if he applies by November 10. He asked if I knew of any conferences or symposia on the work of Ezra Pound. I didn't. Can anybody out here help me? Please backchannel. Thanks, Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:52:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Fasting Day in light of certain recent events Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 I ask all of you,=20 in light of recent events,=20 to hold one fasting day between=20 Thursday November 4, 2004=20 and Sunday November 7, 2004. ...the weakness of the Democratic Party continues... ...the weakness of the people continues... ...theweakness of checks and balances continues... --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:54:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken James Subject: election & churches MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It has been a pet theory of mine for about seven years now that people on the religious right are as "well organized" as they are because every Sunday of every week, all 100 million of them (or however many there are) go to church -- where they have, in effect, a mini-political rally. I think it's easy for us to be distracted by the idea that the mass media are the main mobilizing force for the majority of the population. I think what has flown right under our radar is that the PRE-MODERN institution of the church, with its ability to give force and direction to the lives of tens of millions in this country, was probably THE decisive factor in this election. The Republicans have of course courted the religious right for decades. But it's with this election (apparently) that they've finally figured out that they can approach the churches directly, as we've been hearing in the news. (Indeed, the connections could go deeper: I, for one, would like to see an investigation of what the sources are for the sermons given out week after week all over the country. Who writes them, precisely? The pastors only? Or...?) I was wondering, as election day approached, whether the Republicans' directly approaching the churches would make a difference in voter turnout. If the polls are any indication, it obviously did: the number-one issue for voters for Bush was "values". It would be a mistake, I think, for Democrats to take this as a cue to go Christian on us. (Though in their typically blundering way, they'll probably try it. They already have.) Instead, they and everybody else should recognize that the people who put "values" at the top of their list were people who go to church. It's not the values that matter here so much as the institution that mobilizes the people who articulate them -- and the political party that courts the institution. We should start looking at these churches and open communications with them, friendly or otherwise. (You can bet there's abuse going on in those churches -- sexual and otherwise -- that is just ripe for investigation.) We should start having a discussion with them -- directly -- about freedom, justice, class and inequality in this country. But we also need to think about countervailing centers of population as well. We have to outnumber, person for person, the entire right-wing church population. The only way I can see to do that is 1) court the moderate religious population, and 2) center our attention on the cities. Cities can counterbalance churches. Yes, differences in values matter here. But it's the real, concrete institutions that allow these value differences to carry political force. This Sunday, all the evangelicals in the country (*how* many tens of millions?) are going to go to their churches again and congratulate themselves. We should start thinking about paying them a visit. Churches are real. -- Ken James ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:02:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Gut Punched MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable He has four more years to-lift ivory embargoes, polute with his pen and = ideas, send our military around the globe--Whats next--Korea? Canada? = He can greese the skids for ARNOLD. Is it a bad dream? I do not feel safer. I have to not give up.=20 Hope is what gives you strength. If you want to go to a site that tells us--it didn't matter who won-- = infowars.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:10:15 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: no change MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A House of Dust standin' high an' ancient, worn an' brittle on a hill leftover from a daydream there's a great ol' house o' dust in every crooked window tired curtains cling the rotten sill an' through all the ages busted panes resist no season's thrust every battered door unhinged but the rustin' locks still sound the burglar 'r the henchman walk the place right with the saint timbers set beneath a different sun keep it all from fallin' down an' every new owner puts on his own new coat of paint ya can whisper, ya can scream, ya can mumble 'r shout ya can come t' bring peace 'r harm no answers, no lies, no thoughts are held out they blow through them rooms like a storm no single body's held from its rooms in it ya'll find what ya find no single body's held from its tomb neither cruel nor kind T.M. Malo from The Fountain D.D. Newlyn Co. 1999 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:41:36 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: isbn 82-92428-08-9 Subject: To the sea Comments: To: wryting , "arc.hive" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To the sea; the being ashamed of a silent dog. A person who will come by, but poverty is worth a while, after supper walk a single tree to leave off. He that would turn back a mackerel. Treachery will fall go hand in kind. He himself that for want of wisdom. Everything dear is in the White House. A horse the crocodile meeting a shame; but if the sea, The sea; the ounce. Faint heart is in the killing of one of a hole for somebody else; you must crack the sooner Ounce. Faint heart is at the head is nearest the naughty she-goat who will gain sits waiting patiently in the fatted calf but not change its feathers because the outdoor shrine, and the trouble that follows death than oxen. The ground can fall no lower. Hunger finds no lower. Hunger finds no lower. Hunger finds no Guardian or Helper. Head is blind in the traitor. An Head is good if men take to return to the sea; the herb that highest kicks his rear. Return to leave off. He that has walked with truth generates life. "Injustice chases its sons, also for the sun does not make light work. Show the weak man when it of a silent dog. Walked with truth generates life. "Injustice chases its season. Walked with truth generates life. Perfect love my mother is at the gander. Perfect love my mother is at the beard. Dry bread at the marrow is the sign invites you can keep yourself safe from a helpless child, powerless except for his wheels helps his oxen. Three women and a horse the weak man whose father was fire in your skin. The slow horse with the spider that knows what it would not be afraid of the world. Beard. Dry bread at once. The vine brings milk to the coals. He who drinks too many; and they be many. After a great house is too few. Long absent, soon forgotten. They were now to turn their hostility towards the first of wealth is alive. Once. The vine brings milk to bray. Old age is in silk or scarlet. Better than his nose. Never speak to outclass his colleagues may be many. After a hole for somebody else; you are brave. Make hay whilst the hedge at once. The vine brings milk to leave off. He that highest kicks his rear. Bray. Old age is sickness of a silent dog. A knife from the trouble that follows death than a man must drink water. Whoever has walked with truth generates life. "Injustice chases its flight. As you must behave like a reaction. Sickness of its flight. As you yourself safe from the fathers have eaten sour grapes, and a pound of what it is the ground can fall no fault of prevention is drawn, it in the mouth. What would one day become extinct from under the fatted calf but the killing of one of a gift sells his security, wealth and they be afraid of what it is the very stone in the White House. A single tree to bray. Old age is a hole for somebody else; you eat the thing that fattened him. Fathers have the outdoor shrine, and is not beaten, then that is at hand. The poor men take to leave off. He that is good if the fault of tyranny." When he himself that is our security has automatically guaranteed its nest. And a crowing hen tomorrow. The gander. Is not beaten, then that is worth a good appetite there is bad. If you must drink water. Whoever has been bitten by the rich to outclass his whole house. Everything Good appetite there is not care of palm-fronds. If they perform for every state that for his own security. A bird does not dig a mountain heifer. Do not perform miracles on the most scars is the fox could not make a tough bough. We have, but we bring on horseback and the heart is in silk or scarlet. Better own science. You do not a whistling girl and the bone. There is slippery. Care of pleasure, the coals. He is drawn, it in error." The outdoor shrine, and a great house of prevention is lost; for the rider is made and is not beaten, then that is as Adam. Love my mother is at the other side of what it is better an ass, it would learn to return to return to be known by the fox could not cut off the fathers have the being ashamed of patience. An eye is slippery. He causes the young and every action, there is as Adam. Love my mother is at the silent ones of a funeral. Better than his screams. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:45:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: another poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit they stood in line to get their auto tag stood in line with a big fat black guy stood in line, or sat waiting for a parade stood in line to get a copy of their birth certificate stood in line to get a passport stood in line to get my license stood in the rain stood in line to get a shot stood in line to settle the score stood in line despite a long workday stood in line outside a supermarket with open-topped strollers they stood in line stood in line with other's young girls went to Blimpie's for a sub, and stood in line OH MY GOD. "WHY didn't you check your BAG? WHY?? All those times we stood in line stood in line even as the guy came up to us stood in line to get to the machines stood in line before heaven stood for a long time stood in line and waited stood in line to secure like we were celebrities, we stood in line stood in line of battle stood in line to deliver went to the gift shop and stood in line Stood in line behind other stood in line behind four people stood in line until noon stood in line so soon after daybreak aficionados once stood in line stood in line, holding a bottle of juice hundreds more stood in line Stood, sat, stood in line turn-away people who stood in line SOLD-IERS stood in line stood in line with husband-to-be "I come every year!" she said and stood in line stood in line and explained stood in line before the Board stood in line for the tickets stood in line in single file stood in line on the street stood in line to take almost certain that i had stood in line stood in line...stood in line.stood in line...zzzzz. stood in line despite old man stood in line stood in line waiting for something to happen stood in line under a tent stood in line for the first release stood in line shifting from one foot to the other "You don't get many chances to get to a Packer game," Hotchkiss said as he stood in line stood in line, collapsed and died stood in line for some $5 Garlic fries the cast stood in line "they were arrayed in line of battle" stood in line outside stood in line ready to be called police had to break up a fight as people stood in line stood in line and chatted stood in line at the bank stood in line and were not happy about it "I feel terrible." stood in line for the kassa stood in line to receive a number stood in line with a jubilant group of teenaged boys off to see the world stood in line and it sold out stood in line all day (or all night) pregnantwomen stood in line just kept going back and forth if I actually wanted to go through with it stood in line since yesterday stood in line for a Krispy Kreme developed a silent hatred (for you) while we stood in line together stood in line on the third day of the storm locked my bike and stood in line Oh, Canada! I stood in line stood in line for standby four people who stood in line entered stood in line for what seemed like an eternity got to the airport and stood in line stood in line because my grandma had Some folks stood in line children and picnickers stood in line a portion of them stood in line stood in line for a glass of warm water stood in line together talking about what we were trying to figure out stood in line hoping to cross stood in line under corrugated metal in line to get near a memorial stood in line to get one toy complained as she stood in line stood in line and drank beer we queued (stood in line) Not like the last time I stood in line stood in line with the same people with whom we stood in line the previous night stood in line to buy inferior quality paper stood in line forever stood in line with no acknowledgement from the restaurant staff Before departure time I stood in line O, my daughters and I stood in line to see him!! stood in line after line after line (the thousands of job seekers) stood in line (we we're perfect little solders) stood in line for a payphone stood in line and finally made it up the block, around the corner, a block down the railroad tracks, around the tree, back up that block and was rounded stood in line to visit the 107th-floor observation deck stood in line just as any other customer would people parked their cars and stood in line At the potluck, he stood in line with his mouth salivating stood in line freezing girls batted their eyelashes at them while they stood in line stood in line at the window stood in line because that's what it took to redeem stood in line to buy a bottle of water stood in line with scissors stood in line wearing a white cowboy hat stood in line to get a beret "You have to get what's popular." stood in line for hours...HOURS...to get doughnuts took a Coke and stood in line and ate my Twinkies stood in line and mainly passed the time The little immigrants stood in line can't wait to stand in the stupid line again ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:45:41 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: isbn 82-92428-08-9 Subject: He ... you Comments: To: wryting , "arc.hive" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Created the 11th as their security, wealth is ... you. It is in business. Be aware that it is time when one day become extinct from us why we witnessed the security of tyranny, and gave birth to fight tyrannical superpowers, as they say: "How mistaken we are the pretenders of the 19 - according to you, Allah knows his security, wealth and children sprawled everywhere. ... you. It is he who are still engaged in the throwing of children is in the Israelis to avoid these images and Helper, while America, Engaged in silk or scarlet. Better to be thrust into an ass, it the 19 - according to our people what it will gain sits waiting all for a while, after supper walk a drum is not in light of Bush administration has automatically guaranteed its citizens for 10 years, until it easy for Allah. That being said, those events and stay than persist in error." And a reaction. Thrust into the weak man whose father was hurled at hand. The poor men were telling you, the outdoor shrine, and political losses without their private interests over their achieving for it anything of the bleed-until-bankruptcy plan - all praise is worth a person who walks alone carries a weapon? And nothing is drawn, it in another Manhattan, and deals with their families on the 11th as they were terrorised and severed limbs, women and severed limbs, women and became envious of tyranny." When one of pounds of the military regimes, and the security is blind in election fraud from under the ounce. Faint heart never occurred to our fight in Afghanistan Hurled at the house is hard to restore freedom at the public interests over the storm, the ideal way started in the causes the loss of children for years before the 19 - as we, alongside the mujahidin, bled Russia for the horse the hedge at once. The vine brings milk to Allah knows his own science. You do is afraid of poetry. "Injustice chases its flight. As you have mercy on the silent ones from killing of you can observe it will come by, but poverty is a shame; but the weak man whose father was like Halliburton and concerns the young and his whole of a silent dog. A helpless child, powerless except for defending his security, wealth and nothing is hard to our people of a silent dog. A funeral. Better than 1000 of the fatted calf but you want for securing America and researched. Among the twin towers in the decision was hurled at home without mercy. The situation was fire in your skin. The slow horse the security has automatically guaranteed its citizens for every action, there is alive. Restore freedom at the loss of wealth is bad. If a great house of a silent dog. A conversation that the killing of a thief. Beauty draws more important of his liberty. A black hen tomorrow. The world are with a pound and thus, the liar. He ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:47:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: request for your words (election "post mortem") In-Reply-To: <20041103183908.HWYN2451.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone who wants to send me a sentence or two, a paragraph, a rant, some writing, no matter the form--around "now what do we do," please send to poebot@stny.rr.com. I plan on publishing it online, soon, and perhaps in print at some point too, depending on how it goes. Best, Deborah Poe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 17:27:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Portable Reading PDF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 All:=20 Kevin Thurston, Lauren Bender, Justin Sirois and I have put together a PDF = containing bios and some texts/objects as an invitation to sample some of t= he writing/composing coming out of Baltimore via the Portable Collective. We're using the PDF as a bridge. We will send the PDF to anyone who wished = to potentially host us at their reading series, outside of Baltimore. So fa= r we've read at the ACA gallery in NYC, the Fusion Arts Museum in Brooklyn,= NY, and will be reading at the La Tazza series in Philadelphia on November= 20th. Next Year we will read in Ithaca, NY, somewhere else near Ithaca, NY= (late March) and in Washington, DC at the In Your Ear reading series TBA.= =20 We are in turn inviting many poets from outside Baltimore to read at the Po= rtable Reading series. Each memeber of the Collective will invite a poet/wr= iter of his/her choosing and open a dialogue between skills and styles. Thi= s vice versa mutually respective come si come sa relationship will ultimate= ly broaden the nation's eyes to our politics/poetics while opening the same= such easr to our friends from afar. Please contact me directly for a copy of the PDF.=20 furniture_press@graffiti.net Warmly, Christophe & Sarah E. Casamassima Kevin Thurston Lauren Bender Justin Sirois --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:18:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Walking Theory 76 - 85 on the blog Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Anyone needing a good stretch - I have put up Walking Theory #76 - #85 as a sequence on my blog. As always, appreciate your comments. With a hat tipped away from the election (jeezus!) Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:49:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pamela Lu Subject: passive moralists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After hearing George Lakoff on NPR this morning debate down an extremist Christian right-wing caller who said she registered earlier this year = after 30 years of non-voting specifically to vote Yes on the Louisiana ban gay marriage amendment and who wanted to un-separate church and state in = favor of a divine right theocracy with King George W at the helm, I couldn't help feeling even more depressed than I already did, but also more focussed = in my despair and depression. =20 Basically I agree with George Lakoff and the Rockridge Institute ( http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/) = that the extreme Christian right has hijacked the terms of the national moral debate and with these terms, over 50% of the popular vote. The same repetitive framing and biased contextualizing that made "liberal" a = dirty word and added "partial-birth abortion" to the national vocabulary has essentially worked its way into the emotional unconscious of the = majority of the population and made it even harder for Democrats to win back the = swing voters who are susceptible to the conservative linguistic brainwashing. =20 My gut feeling is that most people vote emotionally, not intellectually. = This is nothing new, but the Dems haven't been as able to use (I hesitate to = say exploit) this concept as effectively as the right-wing Repubs. The Dems = bring up issues, and complexity, but the Repubs appeal to reductive emotions = like fear, indignation, a "we're just right, they're just wrong" kind of = attitude. If Dems go for issues of the heart like health care or senior care, the Repubs go for the distraction tactic of throwing in religious ideology = with the reductive emotions. Once you bring God into the debate it's almost = always like hitting below the belt. =20 So I think to win back the country the Dems need to win back the = perception that they are the populist party (another stand hijacked by the = radio-show Right), and to win back the populist stance they need to tap into core emotions that are stronger than the Right's. What are these emotions? = Lakoff and his institute have some ideas, I only hope they cut to the core as powerfully as ye olde fire & brimstone. =20 This is about language. This is about the most widespread form of = official political verse poetry. The terms frame the emotions, and in turn the = voter choice. When the Kerry campaign came out with its slogan "A Stronger = America" I have to admit I really cringed at first. Ick. What a slick marketing statement, what a sound byte, everything I hate. But then as the weeks = rolled on I started to see the point. The slogan was actually a pretty good = blanket summary of emotional strengths the Dems wanted to stand for across the = board -- stronger international diplomacy, stronger international credibility, stronger domestic social policy, stronger workforce, etc. So Kerry was one-upping the conventional perception that the Repubs are the strong = guys. And Kerry's message of "reclaiming the moral high ground" was = strategically the right tactic to take in the post-WMD post-Fahrenheit 9/11 climate. Obviously millions of people saw right through the Bush Admin's self-justifying manuevers and wanted to stand behind a challenger who represented a stance that was emotionally (and logically) more correct. =20 So as much as I feel the heartbreak of this very close election, I also = feel the hopefulness that comes from it being so very close. Considering that = the country has never voted an incumbent president out of office in the = middle of a war, the fact that the popular margin was only 2-3 points really says something. And the fact that Kerry prevailed in the upper midwest really = says something hopeful about how the Dems can retain support in that = transitional, post-manufacturing region. =20 I want to believe that most of the people who voted for Bush, who voted = for the anti-gay marriage amendments, are not rabid froth-at-the-mouth = extremists like the woman on the NPR call-in line. I want to believe that they are passive moralists, who wouldn't necessarily be very mobilized without aggressive flyering from their local Christian Coalition, who when = presented with the ballot choice vote in the default direction, the way their = family thinks, the way their neighbors think, the way their church leader = thinks, etc. I want to believe that enough of these people, enough to make up 2% = of the voter population, are passive enough in their convictions to be = swayed to the other side by a set of arguments they find to be emotionally = compelling and overriding. =20 Someone brought up the stem cell research initiative here in California = as a possible litmus test of this moderate swing vote. That initiative passed (authorizing funding to allow research to proceed) by 59 to 41. That's = about four points wider than the statewide margin that won California for = Kerry over Bush. So roughly speaking the Prop 71 campaigners were successful = at swaying 4% of Bush voters over to stem cell research. How did they do = this? By pouring in tons of $$$ (Beverly Hills/Palo Alto cash plus Gov. = Arnold's endorsement, itself worth millions in this sorry state) and by appealing again and again to tearjerking emotional concerns ("research will cure = my 5-year-old daughter's diabetes, would have cured my ex-president dad's Alzheimers") that overrode competing moral concerns about injecting = nuclei into eggs to make embryos that won't make it to birth. =20 At least Obama got his senate seat. =20 Rock on. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:18:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: as we morn our dead In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20041103093526.0191eaf0@hobnzngr.pobox.stanford. edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Not to be overly pessimistic, but while we continue to struggle, as we must, the water is rising and the sky darkening, and a lot of what's done and doing can't be undone. This past two days I've been driving east across Arizona and New Mexico. The saguaros have been exterminated from a hundred miles of desert where I got used to seeing them until recent years, and on brilliant sunlit days there's a constant haze. Just north of El Paso there's a couple of miles of feed lots along the Rio Grande, which must do wonders for the water. So the fight's for whatever crust is left, and the other side is on god's time--none of it matters, if the US does what it should the world will be finished anyway and the saints will have ascended. Mark At 09:50 AM 11/3/2004 -0800, you wrote: >After all the talk of Iraq and jobs and fear-mongering, the election >results seem to have added up to this: > >Missionary Position 1 > >Homophobia 0 > >As for asylum, I have longed for spending my declining years hanging out in >Coffee Houses in Amsterdam obliterating my mind with endless hashish. A >good way to go. > >However, I suggest that people gain some perspective, and identify with how >long-suffering people can survive. As a Jew, I have a historic imprint of >living for centuries on the margins and worse, and even today, supposedly >elevated by Israel, I feel betrayed. Think of the Palestinians living a >half century in refugee camps (a drop in the bucket of suffering, except >when you consider what it's like to be born and grow up in a giant jail or >living under occupation). How many years of slavery, how many years of the >"nadir" of Jim Crow have Black people survived? How many centuries of >burning witches? > >So, don't loose your spirit. We have the solidarity of the entire world, >and we can build a world-wide front against the US empire and religious >extremism of all types. > >I do imagine attending a meeting in Amsterdam of The Anti-Imperialist >Committee in Solidarity with the American People . . . in a delicious haze >of forgetfulness. > >Love to all, > >Hilton > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. >Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs >Lecturer, Department of English >Stanford University >415 Sweet Hall >650.723.0330 >650.724.5400 Fax >obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:38:00 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Readings @ The Contemporary: Cole Swensen / Jocelyn Emerson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thursday, February 4 @ 7:00 PM Contemporary Art Museum · 3750 Washington · St. Louis, Missouri Readings @ The Contemporary presents 2004 National Book Award nominee COLE SWENSEN acclaimed author of nine books of poetry, and JOCELYN EMERSON whose debut, Sea Gate (2002), won the New York/New England Award from Alice James Books. For more information, go to http://belz.net/readings/ or call 314-221-8671 All readings are FREE ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:53:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Might someone backchannel Alice Notley's contact info? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gracias -=20 Ravi=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 17:24:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Steinberg Subject: Could someone send me Mary Margaret Sloan's contact info? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Many thanks! Hugh Steinberg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:01:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pamela Lu Subject: To rstarr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To the person who sent me mail backchannel, I've been trying to email = you back but my messages keep getting bounced back. Anyway, the program on = NPR was Talk of the Nation, with Neal Conan, which was one right before the = Bush victory speech... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:06:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: <636CAF794497E245BD10F7A43C7295210170D3B6@fcexmb02.efi.internal> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" pamela, yours is the first post that draws me out into the light of the screen... may i forward it to a few friends/family?... excellent observations that highlight why ideology isn't just about logic, but about feelings... the emotional subtext is often what divides us in the voting booths, and this fact is often lost in those analyses claiming that, despite our differences, we're basically alike in our beliefs... yes, we can be talked into compromises, under the right conditions... but there is no thought as such independent of conditions, and survey conditions cannot replicate the heat of political action/sentiment... karl rove is a pro at exploiting the electorate's feelings, but there has to be something there to be exploited... the guns/god/gays triad is a kind of shorthand that many voters evidently respond to w/o a whole lot in the way of critical thought... that said (if i may), it's a dire moment for the american dream, and i don't think we have any way of knowing where we're headed collectively (though it's clear that if you liked the last four years, the next four promise to be much, much better)... if the left has to reinvent itself, this won't just be about rhetoric and politicking (if those too), but about some very real reconceptualizing of our beliefs, and finding new ways to turn them into social action... and finding support and funding for such social action... i would also like to see what's just transpired catalyze something like a counterculture... i'm holding out hope for this---wishful thinking, some will say---but in any case i don't believe it's the sort of thing that can be legislated, as to my way of thinking, such a scenario is just beyond the horizon... i'm sure too that this will have a lot to do with young people (which is to say, some of us may need to get out of the way)... anyway, thanx for that, and to others for their posts on this immensely disappointing day... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:45:40 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I heard the exchange between Lakoff and the lune this afternoon, and I wasn't shocked by it in the least. The fact is that the US populace has moved to the right, and the Bushies know very well how to play to peoples' fears. Let's face it: the Democratic party is bankrupt. Kerry is as much a corporate lackey as Bush. But, Bush is better at it. An old CP professor of mine used to say, "When you run a fake Republican against a real Republican, the real one always wins." Yeah, yeah, Kerry is a Mass. liberal, but both parties are the same: THE PROPERTY PARTY. And Bush doesn't really know what a Republican is but that doesn't matter either because President Cheney does. It will be interesting to watch what President Cheney does now that he has no need for Georgie. Rove and Team Bush throw up smoke screens like same sex marriage, stem cell research, abortion to distract people from the looting they are doing to the country and the slaughter that they committing all over the world. I work for one of the premier biomedical research institutes in the world, I can't believe the bill California just passed. The State has massive budgetary issues, and they are throwing $3B at stem cell research, which is such a wasps' nest. What kind of sc research? Adult? Embryonic? Mouse? Monkey? Chicken? Estimates say that we're at least 20 years away from finding therapies that will work from human embryonic sc research. The thing that California will do will be to drain the rest of the US of stem cell researchers. All embryologists will be running out to California as if they were 49ers. We all sit here behind our computers moralizing about this joint, but the honest truth is that we all live our comfortable American lives on the "riches" of the last 50+ years stemming from the US military industrial complex's voracious appetite. We are all complicit in this. This won't change. We just need to get honest with ourselves. On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:06:54 -0600, Joe Amato wrote: > pamela, yours is the first post that draws me out into the light of > the screen... may i forward it to a few friends/family?... excellent > observations that highlight why ideology isn't just about logic, but > about feelings... the emotional subtext is often what divides us in > the voting booths, and this fact is often lost in those analyses > claiming that, despite our differences, we're basically alike in our > beliefs... yes, we can be talked into compromises, under the right > conditions... but there is no thought as such independent of > conditions, and survey conditions cannot replicate the heat of > political action/sentiment... karl rove is a pro at exploiting the > electorate's feelings, but there has to be something there to be > exploited... the guns/god/gays triad is a kind of shorthand that many > voters evidently respond to w/o a whole lot in the way of critical > thought... > > that said (if i may), it's a dire moment for the american dream, and > i don't think we have any way of knowing where we're headed > collectively (though it's clear that if you liked the last four > years, the next four promise to be much, much better)... if the left > has to reinvent itself, this won't just be about rhetoric and > politicking (if those too), but about some very real > reconceptualizing of our beliefs, and finding new ways to turn them > into social action... > > and finding support and funding for such social action... > > i would also like to see what's just transpired catalyze something > like a counterculture... i'm holding out hope for this---wishful > thinking, some will say---but in any case i don't believe it's the > sort of thing that can be legislated, as to my way of thinking, such > a scenario is just beyond the horizon... i'm sure too that this will > have a lot to do with young people (which is to say, some of us may > need to get out of the way)... > > anyway, thanx for that, and to others for their posts on this > immensely disappointing day... > > best, > > joe > -- ================================ And you know that its beginning, And you know that its the end When once again we are strangers And the fog comes rolling in. And all over the world Strangers Talk only about the weather. =============================== Ak 3063 29th Street Astoria, NY 11102 kozaitis@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:01:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: <296e37910411031845ee4f617@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" anastasios, i hear you... against the global realities, the u.s. looks prosperous generally... still, i tend not to like to be told that life here is so great, ergo we shouldn't give a damn about the minimum wage, poverty in the u.s., etc... not that you're saying this, of course... in fact my sense is that we ARE all complicit to varying degrees (i repeat: to varying degrees), but no solution will likely work that fails to engage with the fact that desire continues unabated... some of the best historical materialist thinkers i know drive suv's and have large cd collections... i don't see that about to change anytime soon... this does not negate materialist thought as such, but it does suggest that a solution (as opposed to an analysis of the problems) will have to account for such desires (which some of the best thinkers i know can't seem to manage, unsurprisingly)... people who make their way out of poverty will want what those who have never lived in poverty have always had... and i can't blame them... or to put it more autobiographically, i don't blame myself, even if i do question my desires... push come to shove though, i just love good cold cuts, and am willing to shell out for same, if you know what i mean... ditto a smooth interface... so i continue to see a very real difference twixt kerry and bush, all of nader's and others' naysaying aside... again, my time on public assistance is what i rely on in making such a claim... while i can imagine other perspectives, that particular perspective feels like the right one in this case at this time... and as an artist of sorts, i find the symbolic proportions of this election not a little difficult to swallow... so the dems may be bankrupt as a party, as you put it, but we'll need to find an even harsher language to describe the once and future republican party... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:11:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Finish Counting the Votes In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A concession is only a formality. If by some miracle Ohio turned out to have gone for Kerry after he'd conceded he'd be presidsent anyway. Mark At 11:15 AM 11/3/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Too little too late. According to the AP, Kerry's already >called Bush to concede. > >Hal Serving the tri-state area. > >Halvard Johnson >=============== >email: halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ > >{ The Republicans of course would rather stop the contest now before >{ all the votes are even counted. >{ >{ What they want to do now is start the manipulation machine rolling-- >{ so Republicans simply declare victory and throw money at the problem. >{ >{ This is not over. How about you finish counting the votes Ohio?! >{ >{ If Kerry concedes all is lost. e-mail friends and family in >{ Ohio if need be and declare Kerry the winner of this election! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:47:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Welfare Poets and Joel B. Tan at =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Galer=EDa?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Galeria de la Raza Welfare Poets and Joel B. Tan at Galería Wednesday, Nov. 10 at 7:30 PM Admission: $5 - $10 sliding scale Words to the Wise :: lyrical talent from NY and the Bay Area. Galeria de la Raza, in collaboration with Locus Arts and La Peña Cultural Center, present a unique night of bi-coastal poetry not to be missed. "Words to the Wise" combines the lyrical talents of Ray Ramirez and Hector Rivera, of the New York City based Welfare Poets, with renowned Bay Area author Joel B. Tan into one night of unforgettable poetry and performance. welfare poets Reminder :: Fandango Jarocho :: FREE CONCERT Saturday, November 6 at 7:30PM. SanJo Son, Cascada de Flores, Son de la Tierra, Artemio Posada and Lado Son, Over 25 musicians and singers of Mexican son from six Bay Area jarocho groups. save the date ¡Pachanga!, our annual auction party, lights up your life Saturday, 11/20/2004. Galería is funded by Andy Warhol Foundation California Arts Council Creative Work Fund Gerbode Foundation Grant For The Arts/Hotel Tax Fund LEF Foundation/CFC Levi Strauss Foundation National Endowment for the Arts Rockefeller Foundation San Francisco Arts Commission San Francisco Foundation Yahoo! Employee Foundation Zellerbach Family Fund & Galería Members http://GaleríadelaRaza.org ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:07:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Joe, Pamela, Anastasios and all, -=A0=A0Surveys of voters leaving the polls found that a majority = believed=20 the national economy was not so good, that tax cuts had done nothing to=20= help it and that the war in Iraq had jeopardized national security. But=20= fully one-fifth of voters said they cared most about "moral values" -=20 as many as cared about terrorism and the economy - and 8 in 10 of them=20= chose Mr. Bush. (NYT) The BBC called yesterdays ballot outcome an endorsement of church,=20 family and homeland security. Of these the most pernicious formation is=20= the Christian family, but family is worth examining. Even on the left=20 here I often find an utterly sentimental attachment to family. The=20 commitment to 'family is far stronger than any other to neighborhood,=20 community, society=A0-=A0body!! Until the left can redress this banal and almost pioneer-driven relic=20 of nineteenth century orthodoxy (blood is thicker than . . ) and the=20 identity narratives and viewpoints on marriage which walk hand in hand=20= with it then neocons are going to have the moral ground and therefore=20 it seems (through the zeal of church invective and church bonding) the=20= USAmerican people increasingly in their grip. =A0I'm far from suggesting dismissal of 'family' but simply a more=20 proportionate position for such ties and sentiments. Counter-culture=20 sounds like a far more energising base for affinity between=20 singularities; translocal and unabashed transnational circulation of=20 the tactical imaginary. o dear =A0love and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:00:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: passive moralists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that until you begin to analyze and deal with the beliefs that lie behind the terms -- and stop assuming that Christians are passive, backwoods morons that knuckle under whenever their pastors tell them something -- you won't begin to win the battle for the so-called moral high ground. Isn't it almost quaint at this point to resort to a linguistic, psychological explanation of the American citizen? Do you think that people can be reprogrammed, like droids, as long as they are presented with terminology that represents reality in a more reasonable way? I detect, behind your (and Lakoff's) thesis, another assumption that seems radically wrong. It is that people are *not evil*, that they are basically neutral, or even good. In order to get to the bottom of what's wrong with America, if that can be done from a contemporary perspective, I think you will have to rethink that assumption. Anastasios did a fine job of revealing the reality of American greed and selfishness. It's not, at that level, "about language." It is about a desire to protect the ranch, to dig in one's heels, to ignore poverty, starvation; it is an inability to imagine life outside the border, and it afflicts all Americans. I think the accepted leftist explanation of heartland America is possibly what has weakened the liberal ideology the most. The fact is that *no* American, whether they live in red states or blue states, wants to dirty their hands with helping others. Rightists ignore other people's troubles altogether; leftists rename people and create state programs for them; but nobody, it seems to me, has discovered the true moral high ground. Yes, as Anastasios says, the Democratic party is bankrupt; I would like to see a resuscitation of the left, though. The first step is to recognize that there is no real meaning in a semiotic game of checkers. The second is to take people and their worldviews seriously. I am sorry for my tone here, especially to Pamela, whom I don't know from Adam. Hope this is meaningful to someone, nevertheless, AB ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:01:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Notes on the election - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Notes on the election - 0. The Republican win was predicted and predictable. Now the infinity of analysis begins, an infinity that has already missed the point. 1. There is nothing the Democrats might have done 'better.' The country voted its conscience. 2. Its conscience is founded on a morality-based worldview, which is rural in origin, and relatively rigid. 3. 9/ll played a critical role, not only in revealing the extreme vulnerability of the country, but also in the production of an Islamic- fundamentalist alterity that could not be dismissed. 4. With the religious right, fundamental ontology replaces the episteme. 5. Bush appeared, alive and life-like at the World Trade Center ruins almost immediately after, conjoining his image with the intensity of destruction. 6. The left continuously focused on the negative aspects of the Republican party, over-determining, at least in print, the violence of a world-view at odds with the rest of the planet. 7. Absolute morality is not concerned whatsoever with opinion. 8. The right has been organizing, in the US, for at least a century and a half; this election and the last have been in preparation for decades. With the elimination of the 'fairness doctrine' under Reagan, and with monopoly ownership of local broadcasting, the right has been able to dominate the 'heartland' without opposition. The corporate and Christian merge, to the benefit of both. 9. In the 60s, which for many of us appears to be a history of the left, the right quietly embraced both technology and structural compromises that increased and solidified its power base, in rural and impoverished areas of the country. 10. A fundamental flaw is the assumption that so-called minority votes are liberal and leftist; in fact, the opposite is increasingly the case. 11. The 'American dream' is both part of class distinctions, and a force in their elimination. Don't underrate its influence; no matter how hard we try, there is no revolutionary class, but only power, desire, economic status, and diffused and focused oppression. 12. Corporate America is far more diverse and problematic than the left assumes; it also presents a very real world of almost infinite choice and identifications. Its collusions and corruptions are our collusions and corruptions, and have absolutely nothing to do with God and God's State. 13. Cultural capital in the US is far more important than economic capital, and its boundaries cut across the latter in terms of class. We are all white trash and we are all intellectuals and theorists. 14. Far too many judgments are made 'for' rural and so-called back- water areas, which are almost never heard themselves. The information discourse networks and religious institutions of the majority of American voters are concretely effaced by abstraction. The water of baptism is not H2O. 15. Morality and fear are interwoven; it is the abject stereotyped image of gays fucking that appears to corrode the 'clean and pure' body politic. Your marriage wrecks my marriage. It is a failure of the left not to deal with this; dismissing the violent imaginary out of hand ensures its force within the political arena. 16. In conservative America, the negation of negation is not dialectical, but also a return to a rapturous positivity. 17. If one's religion insists that abortion, for example, is murder, then any means, including murder as literal self-preservation, may be used in return as a defensive and pre-emptive action. It is not ever a question of one side listening to another; it is a question of war to an infinite degree. 18. The church in rural and disenfranchised America is a communal and cohesive force, one of the few institutions capable of lived-community and defense against the rest of the world. But more than this, the church is also the locus for community activity and identity. To dismiss it, even in its intolerant and sometimes evangelical varieties, is to miss the point of its existence. For the individual, the church is salvation, explaining and preserving morality, even forgiving and abetting the temptations of sin. 19. The church overdetermines the rest of the world; rural and other- wise isolated communities have a surprisingly low degree of information flux. The church provides stability in a late-late-capitalist world of postmodernity, where selves, ideologies, and languages are contested. Within testament and testimony, there is no contestation; the church, in other words, 'puts a hedge around the Torah' (Pirke Avot). 20. In my opinion, the image of Kerry hunting (and killing) was not only hypocritical and distasteful, but also a premature sign of defeat. However, this had no affect on the election per se, which was already determined, way back in the late 60s and early 70s, when Billy Graham created the first automated post-office in the US - a religious embrace of technology that forecast the future of the country. Perhaps the left 'created' - i.e. the hacking manifesto - but the religious right utilized, entrenched, constructed a primary embrace of individual and instrumental reason that guaranteed the supple application of power when and where needed. The only real question here is why it took so long. 21. The left has been hampered by split ideologies and critique; the right, which permits no critique, has worked constantly with umbrella ideologies. 22. What has been exposed and contested in the US is often business as usual in the rest of the world. We are witnessing a movement from republic to empire, from the primacy of voting, to the primacy of dominant interests. 23. On a personal level - I have lived in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and the Bushlands of Texas and Florida. What happened was no surprise. I voted early yesterday, and felt a sense of relief at the minor _punctum_ I experienced. But I had no doubt that Bush would win, that my voice was primarily personal therapeutic. Instead of despair late last night/this morning, I've felt that our work, that of an opposition, has only just begun - that it could only just begin. We have to recognize, above all, that the US has done the will of the majority; the more we overlook this, excuse this, theorize this, wonder 'what went wrong,' the more we are weakened. Perhaps this is a positive sign - in the sense that the enemy, if it is an enemy, is clear, and no longer can be dismissed as an aberration. 24. The 'cultural war' is war. 25. Terror is an instrument of war. 26. Religion sublimates terror. 27. I live, you die. Vote or die holds no truck with the faithful. 28. Language is not action. Belief is action. Belief is not language. 29. The explication of fact in Michael Moore is replaced by the internalization of sin and the body in Mel Gibson. Old Testament, New Testament. 30 What the right knows: There is always already closure. _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:01:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Poetic Inhalation and then some - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Poetic Inhalation and then some - http://www.poeticinhalation.com/tlm_v4i7.html http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_featureartist_alansondheim_zz.pdf ? sheila murphy living in translated space cover art by jiha moon ? alan sondheim zz art + poetry by alan sondheim ? john tyson please understand my plant cover art by john shimon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:34:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: voter don't vote Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From the time it was posted, the post quoted below keeps on coming back into my mind. On a personal note, the comment that > my blog has more visitors, my >>> published poems and books outnumber yours) hit home. I have often posted the number of hits on my blog here on the poetics , thinking this would make the idea of blogging seem appealing and exciting and successful. But was I unconsciously boasting and not realizing it? Well, you can be sure I'll never do that again. Point well taken. The second part of this > my >>>> published poems and books outnumber yours) also is something I've thought a lot about, in that not being a very prolifically published poet has seemed a great social disadvantage in the current climate of publish or perish. Which, of course, is one of the reasons I've felt excited about, and wanted to trumpet the successes of my weblog *fait accompli*. The heart of one of the points being made in Derek Rogerson's post below, it seems to me, although the word is never used, is the malignant aspect of how the typical American is either actively obsessed or haunted by the pressure of competition. Winning is our national obsession- beating out the other person is at the heart of what it means to be a good American. My religion is better than your religion, my sexuality is better than your sexuality, my ideas are better than your ideas, my product is better than your product, prizes, awards, advertising, ad nauseum. Anyone who read this list a few years ago probably knows I have already written and said much too much about how poets are far from exempt from this critique. As a young person, I avoided an academic career because the pretentious quality of classroom discussions upset me and put me off. I'm a little crustier now and I can take being teased, ignored, or one-upped or all three at the same time. Posting on this list taught me a little bit about how to roll with the punches and still participate in and enjoy the discussion- so I got a little tougher. Still, some of the critique below seems valid in some way to me. I'd be curious to know what others think. I haven't noticed any other responses to the post below until now. >from derek rogerson >subject: voter don't vote > I am writing this letter to encourage you not to vote. This is a call to > inaction: > > Every vote has as its aim a self-defense. Your vote is a source of > danger to everyone else and so calls on them to vote also. This naked > aggression against each other is madness. > > To deliver yourself from unjust authorities (ie. a Bush plutocratic > oil-junta) you somehow believe your position is improved by electing and > yielding obedience to another ruling authority (ie. a Kerry > socio-regulatory bureaucracy), yet -- obviously -- all that results is > continued power in the hands of authority and therefore continued > oppression. Don't let them fool you. Instead, humble yourself, and > simply desire your part to do nothing (against another). > > But if I do not vote, you might say, others will still be voting -- and > then I am left with a governing power I had no part in. Indeed. Let them > govern. Endure them with patience and without opposition. (Just like > Saddam Hussein, you'll have lots of free time to write poetry!) Free > yourself first! And then by your example show the world how to be free > from all external power. > > > Why is it every four years we must submit ourselves to the unnecessary > and fruitless agony of campaign elections? Why are we always trying to > settle the score? Are we the Hatfields and McCoys? Why not stress > commonality in the face of conflict by abandoning every manner of > campaign and election? > > What is this strange misconception of freedom as something 'prescribed' > from external authority? Do you believe that voting for a political > party or endorsing legislation can somehow make us 'more free'? The very > condition of submission is contrary to all freedoms. For instance, what > kind of animal imagines itself free in a fenced-in place? Are you not > more intelligent? > > Diversity cannot be defined in advance, po-listers! Your lust to impose > power (by electing officials) is a genuine negative act. When you vote, > clearly you vote for your own reward (to gain) which is an aggression > against everyone else. You enact tyranny! Why vote at the expense of > everyone's prosperity?! > > Advocates of slavery! Put an end to the conflict of one section of the > populace making it a duty to submit to what is prescribed to them by > another section of the populace. Are we really that dumb? Are you ready > to submit to 4 more years of Bush? Are Bush supporters willing to submit > to 4 years of Kerry or Nader? Why prescribe anything to which anyone > must submit?? It is a fallacy to believe there can exist in our modern > day and age any institution, special interest, or single person supposed > to represent every interest in society. How can you believe in the > 'construction of society'? Your act of voting is nothing more than a > submission to and a preference for despotism. > > It should be absolutely obvious that there is, and can be, no external > definition of anything which should be binding upon all. *What is > pro-choice?* Why do you constantly feel you have to secure your > position? Why have you chosen (through your vote) to become passive > instruments for the binding of others? > > Why do you abandon the attainment of your personal goals (supporting > Kerry/Nader/Bush and not yourself)? Why do you support the 'interests' > of society? Why do you assent to strengthen one's own state of > subjection? Why have you trained yourselves to act in unison in > submission to another's will (ie. vote for me!)? > > The idea that the activity of voting is some kind of 'sacred power' -- > that without this activity terrible things will happen to you > ('pre-emptive strike' philosophy) must be abandoned. Patriotism is a > savage superstition: an aggrandizement to act with violence. Please > remove yourself from this clandestine routine (behind the curtain) of > intimidation and oppression. When will you stop supporting your own > subordination and the subordination of others?! > Stop voting! Stop the vote! > > Stop using aggression as a means of settling disputes (ie. my number of > votes outnumber your number of votes, my blog has more visitors, my > published poems and books outnumber yours)! Imagine if there was a war > and nobody showed up? Ignore the consumerist-fallacy that we've already > paid a month's rent on the battlefield!! Likewise imagine if there was > an election and nobody voted. Stop behaving like senseless machines! > Stop playing the roles of lambs-to-the-slaughter! Stop making laws > binding on all (and building up police states to enforce them by > forcible means...)! Stop supporting this positive insanity and gross > barbarity! > Don't vote! > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:35:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: blog on the fly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My three mile walk today, shuffling through leaves, messing up sidewalks, just for kicks, this is where it took me. Idea fixed. And the words do help. I'm always driven by bridges, even if it means "spinning my wheels." And what Mae said, in part, Breathe. Contemplate. Build Communities. I want to build something from the loss. Thank you for your words, for letting me hold them, for letting them be shared. The so far and the such and such, from west coast stretching east. [see previous at the bottom for more, and what is there so far: http://www.livejournal.com/users/poelitical/] Love, Deborah ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:40:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: Re: blog on the fly In-Reply-To: <002301c4c230$1ad7b720$49e71842@poedic7646qfpt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this was not supposed to go to the listserv my apologies for the widespread christ i need some sleep. deborah -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Minky Starshine Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:35 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: blog on the fly Importance: High My three mile walk today, shuffling through leaves, messing up sidewalks, just for kicks, this is where it took me. Idea fixed. And the words do help. I'm always driven by bridges, even if it means "spinning my wheels." And what Mae said, in part, Breathe. Contemplate. Build Communities. I want to build something from the loss. Thank you for your words, for letting me hold them, for letting them be shared. The so far and the such and such, from west coast stretching east. [see previous at the bottom for more, and what is there so far: http://www.livejournal.com/users/poelitical/] Love, Deborah ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:37:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: passive moralists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "moral values" -=20 Willie had his weenie washed licked clean by a sweet young lady blue-dress spots undid the lies and congress hit the ceiling. so thanks to Willie the horny=20 shit we=20 get twice stuck=20 with DubYa Damn... ************** Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: cris cheek=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 9:07 PM Subject: Re: passive moralists Hi Joe, Pamela, Anastasios and all, - Surveys of voters leaving the polls found that a majority believed=20 the national economy was not so good, that tax cuts had done nothing = to=20 help it and that the war in Iraq had jeopardized national security. = But=20 fully one-fifth of voters said they cared most about "moral values" -=20 as many as cared about terrorism and the economy - and 8 in 10 of them = chose Mr. Bush. (NYT) The BBC called yesterdays ballot outcome an endorsement of church,=20 family and homeland security. Of these the most pernicious formation = is=20 the Christian family, but family is worth examining. Even on the left=20 here I often find an utterly sentimental attachment to family. The=20 commitment to 'family is far stronger than any other to neighborhood,=20 community, society - body!! Until the left can redress this banal and almost pioneer-driven relic=20 of nineteenth century orthodoxy (blood is thicker than . . ) and the=20 identity narratives and viewpoints on marriage which walk hand in hand = with it then neocons are going to have the moral ground and therefore=20 it seems (through the zeal of church invective and church bonding) the = USAmerican people increasingly in their grip. I'm far from suggesting dismissal of 'family' but simply a more=20 proportionate position for such ties and sentiments. Counter-culture=20 sounds like a far more energising base for affinity between=20 singularities; translocal and unabashed transnational circulation of=20 the tactical imaginary. o dear love and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 01:43:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: good news well for me anyway MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit been holdin this back but after this horrid election thought it was time to share this shameless bit of self-promotion with you all it occurred after dr. n criticized the po-project well anyway w/out getting polite or political i'd just like to say that i have gotten a reading at the poetry project you'll be getting lots of posts as a reminder from me between now and jan. when it will occur some said steve why it's against yer whatever outsider statis no one knows much about you syndrome and all that i too questioned this morally etc but hey it ain't the fkin war in iraq and it ain't like losin my favorite pr of shoes it's just a reading and a darn good one at that and then the next day as nov 3rd turned out all'll be back to normal and i'll be me again me again what an exhiliarating let down anyway it'll be w/ a young poet who hasn't answered my e-mails named joshua beckman i've heard he's quite nice and a good poet that'll be a pleasant balance whatdya mean the nice part or the good poet part? well you'll just have to come and see for yourself anyway i don't know him and i'm sure he doesn't know me like i said i sent him an e but didn't get an answer he lives on ?in staten island a place i rarely visit got one or 2 relatives tho they're not really my relatives living there and there's always the fresh kills dump to visit or snug harbor art and garbage go together quite well wouldn't you say well the gig's january 26 at 8 pm in the dead of winter 25 days after the big nyears reading and the great free alternative nyears reading that i've read at for the past 10 yrs shit now that i read at project i might get invited to the 2006 new yrs reading tho i'd do it in a heartbeat i'd never give up the alt reading which is now at bpc wow then i'll be going against my principals again by reading in both places that is of course if i am invited in 2006 or did i already say that reading the writer's eye tonight one peanut said to the other when you get big do you want to be great? the other said that's an insult the other other said why's it an insult the other said because i'm already great that's great don't ya think great training for the next 4 yrs.......... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 01:19:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: passive moralists Comments: To: kozaitis@gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit vote & die & i did i have 1000's of cds books lps variables dust wings growing beneath my arms no suv can't drive swerve ur vice sever ur victories sin under viciousness swear u'll vote again next time to vote against a thing rather than for a thing 1000's of kisses shields violations lives they say over there where i am thinking of living over there where they respect art over there over there send the WORD send the WORD over there that we are a one party system that's what they say over there they also said over there to me when i was wrongly arrested that i was a filthy america that i was america that i had no respect for them over there over here over here serve under violence the yanks are ooo oooo oooo comin the yanks ( not so hard ) are severe unruly vipers ignorant & deceiving...... the moral is the moral is the moral is hey ron padgett gave a great tho low key talk about his pal joe brainard tonight very nice indeed..........new book joe out on coffee house press ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:52:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: Finish Counting the Votes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to apologize on behalf of Texas. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "flora fair" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 10:42 AM Subject: Re: Finish Counting the Votes > What is more alarming than anything is that a majority of voters chose Bush based on issues of morality. What are they talking about? Is being afraid of science, wreckless with the environment, backwards with women's rights, ignorant of the economy, elitist with health care and arrogant on public policy the new morality? Are they for real? > > Uh ... maybe I'm preaching to the choir. > > Let me just say, as a resident of Florida, I'm sorry. > > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > Too little too late. According to the AP, Kerry's already > called Bush to concede. > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard@earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ > > { The Republicans of course would rather stop the contest now before > { all the votes are even counted. > { > { What they want to do now is start the manipulation machine rolling-- > { so Republicans simply declare victory and throw money at the problem. > { > { This is not over. How about you finish counting the votes Ohio?! > { > { If Kerry concedes all is lost. e-mail friends and family in > { Ohio if need be and declare Kerry the winner of this election! > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:07:25 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: voter don't vote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick etal - hi Nick, Alan Chris etc - I like your posts and this one - my feeling on the dont vote thing is that its good (up to a point) in that it questions the way power is enacted - it puts a radical (a fairly radical) position forward and its quite challenging. The problem is what to do....the world - the US - everyone - are in some kind of power system.... You are right that the emphasis on competiton and or winning (especially in western countries ) is excessive ( when Robert Creeley was here in NZ he was talking of some US poets and Ted Berrigan and the term "loser" came up and he paused - and he'/ we discussed how nasty, how negative (maybe destructive) that term is - of course we didnt think of anyone as being a loser (especially Ted Berrigan - suerly a great poet - (whether he was "great" or not) but its a US term (used here too much now also) (so Robert needn't have been embarrassed for the US only) ) we need to be more compassionate, more tolerant of each other, more alert, but also realise thtat while we are comptetitive we depend enormously on cooperative actions as human animals. We need more Ted Berrigans !! ...I saw a book by his son recently and I really dug the last part of that book.... (I think it was his lastest book)... We will also disagree and get angry or not or agree or not or waffle or be concise or not: but a I think most of us who are poets are -possibly -more humane? conssiderate ? open? than people who order soldiers into war etc...perhaps-let's hope we are... You shouldn't worry about your Blogg though - keep on keeping on! Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Piombino" To: Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:34 PM Subject: voter don't vote > From the time it was posted, the post quoted below keeps on coming > back into my mind. On a personal note, the comment that > > > my blog has more visitors, my > >>> published poems and books outnumber yours) > > hit home. I have often posted the number of hits on > my blog here on the poetics , thinking this would make the idea of blogging > seem appealing and exciting and successful. But was > I unconsciously boasting and not realizing it? Well, > you can be sure I'll never do that again. Point well taken. > The second part of this > > > my > >>>> published poems and books outnumber yours) > > also is something I've thought a lot about, in that not > being a very prolifically published poet has seemed a great social > disadvantage in the current climate of publish or perish. > Which, of course, is one of the reasons I've felt excited about, and wanted > to trumpet the successes of my weblog *fait accompli*. > > The heart of one of the points being made in Derek Rogerson's post below, > it seems to me, although the word is never used, is the malignant aspect of > how the typical American is either actively obsessed or haunted by the > pressure of competition. Winning is our national obsession- beating out the > other person is at the heart of what it means to be a good American. > My religion is better than your religion, my sexuality is better than > your sexuality, my ideas are better than your ideas, my product > is better than your product, prizes, awards, advertising, ad nauseum. > > Anyone who read this list a few years ago probably knows I have > already written and said much too much about how poets are far from exempt > from this critique. As a young person, I avoided an academic > career because the pretentious quality of classroom discussions > upset me and put me off. I'm a little crustier now and I can > take being teased, ignored, or one-upped or all three > at the same time. Posting on this list taught me a little bit about how to > roll with the punches and still participate in and enjoy the discussion- so > I got a little tougher. Still, some of the critique below seems valid in > some way to me. I'd be curious to know what others think. > > I haven't noticed any other responses to the post below until now. > > > >from derek rogerson > >subject: voter don't vote > > > > I am writing this letter to encourage you not to vote. This is a call to > > inaction: > > > > Every vote has as its aim a self-defense. Your vote is a source of > > danger to everyone else and so calls on them to vote also. This naked > > aggression against each other is madness. > > > > To deliver yourself from unjust authorities (ie. a Bush plutocratic > > oil-junta) you somehow believe your position is improved by electing and > > yielding obedience to another ruling authority (ie. a Kerry > > socio-regulatory bureaucracy), yet -- obviously -- all that results is > > continued power in the hands of authority and therefore continued > > oppression. Don't let them fool you. Instead, humble yourself, and > > simply desire your part to do nothing (against another). > > > > But if I do not vote, you might say, others will still be voting -- and > > then I am left with a governing power I had no part in. Indeed. Let them > > govern. Endure them with patience and without opposition. (Just like > > Saddam Hussein, you'll have lots of free time to write poetry!) Free > > yourself first! And then by your example show the world how to be free > > from all external power. > > > > > > Why is it every four years we must submit ourselves to the unnecessary > > and fruitless agony of campaign elections? Why are we always trying to > > settle the score? Are we the Hatfields and McCoys? Why not stress > > commonality in the face of conflict by abandoning every manner of > > campaign and election? > > > > What is this strange misconception of freedom as something 'prescribed' > > from external authority? Do you believe that voting for a political > > party or endorsing legislation can somehow make us 'more free'? The very > > condition of submission is contrary to all freedoms. For instance, what > > kind of animal imagines itself free in a fenced-in place? Are you not > > more intelligent? > > > > Diversity cannot be defined in advance, po-listers! Your lust to impose > > power (by electing officials) is a genuine negative act. When you vote, > > clearly you vote for your own reward (to gain) which is an aggression > > against everyone else. You enact tyranny! Why vote at the expense of > > everyone's prosperity?! > > > > Advocates of slavery! Put an end to the conflict of one section of the > > populace making it a duty to submit to what is prescribed to them by > > another section of the populace. Are we really that dumb? Are you ready > > to submit to 4 more years of Bush? Are Bush supporters willing to submit > > to 4 years of Kerry or Nader? Why prescribe anything to which anyone > > must submit?? It is a fallacy to believe there can exist in our modern > > day and age any institution, special interest, or single person supposed > > to represent every interest in society. How can you believe in the > > 'construction of society'? Your act of voting is nothing more than a > > submission to and a preference for despotism. > > > > It should be absolutely obvious that there is, and can be, no external > > definition of anything which should be binding upon all. *What is > > pro-choice?* Why do you constantly feel you have to secure your > > position? Why have you chosen (through your vote) to become passive > > instruments for the binding of others? > > > > Why do you abandon the attainment of your personal goals (supporting > > Kerry/Nader/Bush and not yourself)? Why do you support the 'interests' > > of society? Why do you assent to strengthen one's own state of > > subjection? Why have you trained yourselves to act in unison in > > submission to another's will (ie. vote for me!)? > > > > The idea that the activity of voting is some kind of 'sacred power' -- > > that without this activity terrible things will happen to you > > ('pre-emptive strike' philosophy) must be abandoned. Patriotism is a > > savage superstition: an aggrandizement to act with violence. Please > > remove yourself from this clandestine routine (behind the curtain) of > > intimidation and oppression. When will you stop supporting your own > > subordination and the subordination of others?! > > Stop voting! Stop the vote! > > > > Stop using aggression as a means of settling disputes (ie. my number of > > votes outnumber your number of votes, my blog has more visitors, my > > published poems and books outnumber yours)! Imagine if there was a war > > and nobody showed up? Ignore the consumerist-fallacy that we've already > > paid a month's rent on the battlefield!! Likewise imagine if there was > > an election and nobody voted. Stop behaving like senseless machines! > > Stop playing the roles of lambs-to-the-slaughter! Stop making laws > > binding on all (and building up police states to enforce them by > > forcible means...)! Stop supporting this positive insanity and gross > > barbarity! > > Don't vote! > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:03:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: change of email! Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all! As of now, my new email address is philip_nikolayev@yahoo.com (note the = underscore in my username). I will no longer use philn@kandasoft.com. = The Fulcrum email address remains editor@fulcrumpoetry.com.=20 Best, Philip ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:41:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: good news well for me anyway In-Reply-To: <20041104.020640.-80519.7.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Poetry Project? Way to go! Smoke 'em. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:43 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: good news well for me anyway been holdin this back but after this horrid election thought it was time to share this shameless bit of self-promotion with you all it occurred after dr. n criticized the po-project well anyway w/out getting polite or political i'd just like to say that i have gotten a reading at the poetry project you'll be getting lots of posts as a reminder from me between now and jan. when it will occur some said steve why it's against yer whatever outsider statis no one knows much about you syndrome and all that i too questioned this morally etc but hey it ain't the fkin war in iraq and it ain't like losin my favorite pr of shoes it's just a reading and a darn good one at that and then the next day as nov 3rd turned out all'll be back to normal and i'll be me again me again what an exhiliarating let down anyway it'll be w/ a young poet who hasn't answered my e-mails named joshua beckman i've heard he's quite nice and a good poet that'll be a pleasant balance whatdya mean the nice part or the good poet part? well you'll just have to come and see for yourself anyway i don't know him and i'm sure he doesn't know me like i said i sent him an e but didn't get an answer he lives on ?in staten island a place i rarely visit got one or 2 relatives tho they're not really my relatives living there and there's always the fresh kills dump to visit or snug harbor art and garbage go together quite well wouldn't you say well the gig's january 26 at 8 pm in the dead of winter 25 days after the big nyears reading and the great free alternative nyears reading that i've read at for the past 10 yrs shit now that i read at project i might get invited to the 2006 new yrs reading tho i'd do it in a heartbeat i'd never give up the alt reading which is now at bpc wow then i'll be going against my principals again by reading in both places that is of course if i am invited in 2006 or did i already say that reading the writer's eye tonight one peanut said to the other when you get big do you want to be great? the other said that's an insult the other other said why's it an insult the other said because i'm already great that's great don't ya think great training for the next 4 yrs.......... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:14:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Rove's Chimp Is People's Choice!!! Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Rove's Chimp Is People's Choice!!! Cheney's Energy Task Force Having Commandeered The U.S. Military Threatens Several Oil Rich States With Attack: Looming U.S. Invasions Slow Oil Infrastructure Investment: Violent Sex Fantasies Drove Popular Vote; Sex With Corpses After Terrorist Attack On Minds Of Most Evangelical Voters: Oil Execs Keep Profits In Petroleum Based Plastic Bags Stuffed Up The Lower Intestines Of Army Of Subordinates: Business Model Counts On Crude In $20 A Barrel Range; All The Rest Is Gravy Poured Over the Meat of Dead Iraqis & Afghanis: "Why in the living fuck would you invest in oil exploration when you can build a shitload of F-22s and Abrams tanks and just go in and steal the second largest oil reserve in the world at taxpayer expense." By ZBIG GNU BALLZ They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:02:22 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When the gay marriage explosion first started some months ago, right away I felt something very wrong was in the air. I mean, the big question I had was, is it possible that this just happened to be going on so close to one of the most critical elections of our time, or was it a set up? Either way, the Bush League was going to use it to their advantage, that much was clear. It is of course possible that it was an organic reaction, part of an ever growing process of gay civil rights. But at the same time, Abbie Hoffman spoke openly and passionately up to the day he was murdered (I'll never believe he was a suicide) about American intelligence agencies working very hard to infiltrate and rupture "left" organizations and movements. One way or the other, here were these amazing, often exhilarating spots on the evening news of gay and lesbian couples lining up at court houses all over America. I couldn't decide whether to feel happy or wary. Then that first speech the president made about amending the constitution to prevent gay marriage brought the ghost of Abbie Hoffman to the foreground for me. Bush had a chilling replay of his 9/11 concerned and protective Fatherland eyes for his televised viewers. The gay marriage focus seemed the perfect smoke screen to divert attention away from Iraq and all the Haliburton intrigues. But more than a smoke screen, it was quickly looking more and more like a perfectly sharpened campaign weapon. So in my concern, I started asking my friends what they thought, and since I'm queer I thought I had a safe footing, and no one would or could accuse me of being homophobic. Some of my queer friends were furious with my suspicions, one even hostile about it. Meanwhile, my heterosexual friends, for the most part, seemed relieved to talk about it. The politically correct atmosphere surrounding the issue made it that much more of a perfected weapon for The Right. Straight people on "the left" wouldn't dare say that maybe we should hold off until November 3rd to dive into this, for fear of reactions like those from some of my queer friends, who will leave no room for dialog on the issue, and will quickly try to strip someone of their "left" associations. My narrow-minded, born again Christian family in rural Iowa and Pennsylvania have always seemed my best barometer for reactions to American politics and moral issues. When they talk about Iraq, or the economy, they are clearly unhappy and critical of the president, but at the same time share a kind of prerecorded, flat, collective sounding tongue. But when gay marriage comes up they REALLY want to own their words, want the insult to be unique, and said with a frightening and frightened passion. Bush is fully aware of who his audience is at all times, I'm convinced of this. And here comes John Kerry, and everyone wonders how he feels about gay marriage, which was rapidly becoming a wildfire crisis in churches across our nation on Sunday mornings. In my opinion, this issue became the corner Kerry refused to believe he was backed into. Furthermore, abortion was the perfect topic to be interchangeably and tied with gay marriage as the top two moral battles for the presidency. If Kerry wouldn't discuss gay marriage, his openly pro-choice stance could, would, and did conflate nicely with the immoral tone of gay marriage. Either way, Kerry was loaded onto the liberal pansy wagon, headed down the campaign trail. The fact that every state that had a referendum on their ballot asking voters about gay marriage turned out to be a state that went to George W. Bush is further proof. This was a highly organized war plan. If you have states where you NEED to get voters agitated, but the economy is gone wrong, and no one is too excited about or happy with the president, you make it clear that they get the chance to vote about a moral issue that sets their hair on fire. And they showed up, and they were not interested in Kerry, so they voted for Bush, and voted NO over and over against gay marriage. By the way, I want to point out what horseshit these referendums on gay marriage are as a tool for making such decisions. Let's suppose Johnson had said, "Well now, before we go making a decision on Civil Rights, we need to ask for the opinions of folks down in Alabama first." If he had done that, instead of doing what was quite obviously the right thing to do, we may still have separate drinking fountains all throughout the South. Well, hopefully we wouldn't, but my point is, you don't ASK people to decide whether or not something as basic as human rights should be allowed or not. But the fact is, I just don't see a candidate with enough courage to make gay marriage legal because it's the right thing to do. Especially now that the election was held over a boiling pot of gay marriage, and won to those who oppose it. CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:08:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: passive moralists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not so sure how passive these moralists, these values voters genuinely are. But I will pledge this: I plan to remind the kind of values voters who elected Tom Coburn, who advocates the death penalty for doctors who perform abortions... and who pledged to fight against "rampant lesbianism" in our nation's schools how much they were duped when all they get for their ardor is a rollback in their capital gains taxes. Those who voted to make our nation strong again will receive a swift-boat sized reminder when they have to kiss their jobs goodbye. I'll remind all those who thought they were voting to screw "those politically correct professors" that all they got for their troubles was gas and electric rate deregulation. For those who voted in Jim DeMint, believing that he would offer viable legislation to ban gays from their schools, I will remind them of how now Social Security will be privatized. To those who voted to strike a blow against what they percieve to be elitism, I'll remind them how they created a nice safe habitat for the CEOs to prey on down and out workers. For all those who voted to stand tall with W. in fighting the jihad, I will remind them of the jihad the have become. For all those who flocked to the polls in anxious fervor to oppose abortion, I'll remind them of how (at least) our immediate future. Gerald Schwartz After hearing George Lakoff on NPR this morning debate down an extremist Christian right-wing caller who said she registered earlier this year after 30 years of non-voting specifically to vote Yes on the Louisiana ban gay marriage amendment and who wanted to un-separate church and state in favor of a divine right theocracy with King George W at the helm, I couldn't help feeling even more depressed than I already did, but also more focussed in my despair and depression. Basically I agree with George Lakoff and the Rockridge Institute ( http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/) that the extreme Christian right has hijacked the terms of the national moral debate and with these terms, over 50% of the popular vote. The same repetitive framing and biased contextualizing that made "liberal" a dirty word and added "partial-birth abortion" to the national vocabulary has essentially worked its way into the emotional unconscious of the majority of the population and made it even harder for Democrats to win back the swing voters who are susceptible to the conservative linguistic brainwashing. My gut feeling is that most people vote emotionally, not intellectually. This is nothing new, but the Dems haven't been as able to use (I hesitate to say exploit) this concept as effectively as the right-wing Repubs. The Dems bring up issues, and complexity, but the Repubs appeal to reductive emotions like fear, indignation, a "we're just right, they're just wrong" kind of attitude. If Dems go for issues of the heart like health care or senior care, the Repubs go for the distraction tactic of throwing in religious ideology with the reductive emotions. Once you bring God into the debate it's almost always like hitting below the belt. So I think to win back the country the Dems need to win back the perception that they are the populist party (another stand hijacked by the radio-show Right), and to win back the populist stance they need to tap into core emotions that are stronger than the Right's. What are these emotions? Lakoff and his institute have some ideas, I only hope they cut to the core as powerfully as ye olde fire & brimstone. This is about language. This is about the most widespread form of official political verse poetry. The terms frame the emotions, and in turn the voter choice. When the Kerry campaign came out with its slogan "A Stronger America" I have to admit I really cringed at first. Ick. What a slick marketing statement, what a sound byte, everything I hate. But then as the weeks rolled on I started to see the point. The slogan was actually a pretty good blanket summary of emotional strengths the Dems wanted to stand for across the board -- stronger international diplomacy, stronger international credibility, stronger domestic social policy, stronger workforce, etc. So Kerry was one-upping the conventional perception that the Repubs are the strong guys. And Kerry's message of "reclaiming the moral high ground" was strategically the right tactic to take in the post-WMD post-Fahrenheit 9/11 climate. Obviously millions of people saw right through the Bush Admin's self-justifying manuevers and wanted to stand behind a challenger who represented a stance that was emotionally (and logically) more correct. So as much as I feel the heartbreak of this very close election, I also feel the hopefulness that comes from it being so very close. Considering that the country has never voted an incumbent president out of office in the middle of a war, the fact that the popular margin was only 2-3 points really says something. And the fact that Kerry prevailed in the upper midwest really says something hopeful about how the Dems can retain support in that transitional, post-manufacturing region. I want to believe that most of the people who voted for Bush, who voted for the anti-gay marriage amendments, are not rabid froth-at-the-mouth extremists like the woman on the NPR call-in line. I want to believe that they are passive moralists, who wouldn't necessarily be very mobilized without aggressive flyering from their local Christian Coalition, who when presented with the ballot choice vote in the default direction, the way their family thinks, the way their neighbors think, the way their church leader thinks, etc. I want to believe that enough of these people, enough to make up 2% of the voter population, are passive enough in their convictions to be swayed to the other side by a set of arguments they find to be emotionally compelling and overriding. Someone brought up the stem cell research initiative here in California as a possible litmus test of this moderate swing vote. That initiative passed (authorizing funding to allow research to proceed) by 59 to 41. That's about four points wider than the statewide margin that won California for Kerry over Bush. So roughly speaking the Prop 71 campaigners were successful at swaying 4% of Bush voters over to stem cell research. How did they do this? By pouring in tons of $$$ (Beverly Hills/Palo Alto cash plus Gov. Arnold's endorsement, itself worth millions in this sorry state) and by appealing again and again to tearjerking emotional concerns ("research will cure my 5-year-old daughter's diabetes, would have cured my ex-president dad's Alzheimers") that overrode competing moral concerns about injecting nuclei into eggs to make embryos that won't make it to birth. At least Obama got his senate seat. Rock on. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:12:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Starr Subject: Re: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon In-Reply-To: <9b.51a78d01.2ebb9e7e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Not exactly. That solid blue strip on the left edge of the election night map included Oregon -- which passed an anti-gay marriage law. > The fact that every state that had a referendum on their ballot > asking voters about gay marriage turned out to be a state that > went to George W. Bush is further proof. > CAConrad > -- "It's all in your head, you just have no idea how big your head is." - Lon Milo DuQuette ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:18:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: RODNEY KOENEKE & SHARON MESMER | SEGUE @ BPC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed RODNEY KOENEKE and SHARON MESMER Saturday, Nov 6, 4:00-6:00 p.m. 308 Bowery, just north of Houston, NYC $5 admission goes to support the readers Rodney Koeneke is the author of Rouge State, winner of the 2002 Transcontinental Poetry Award from Pavement Saw Press, and a book of history on I.A. Richards in China. A new mini-chap, On the Clamways, is just out from Sea.Lamb.Press. His recent poems draw on the rhythms and terrors of a year spent working at a gift shop inside San Francisco's Musée Mechanique, a collection of antique arcade games on Fisherman's Wharf. Sharon Mesmer, the recipient of a 1999 NYFA fellowship, teaches literature and fiction writing at the New School. She is the author of Half Angel, Half Lunch (poems, Hard Press, 1998), and The Empty Quarter (stories, Hanging Loose, 2000). The Segue Reading Series is made possible by the support of The Segue Foundation. For more information, please visit www.segue.org/calendar, http://bowerypoetry.com/midsection.htm or call (212) 614-0505. These events are made possible in part, with public funds from The New York State Council on the Arts, a state agency. Curators: Oct.-Nov. Nada Gordon & Gary Sullivan _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:22:50 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<>> Okay, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for pointing this out, CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:26:26 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Two days after the election MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And I am still reeling, but my son, who is five, said something in the car this morning that made me smile and gave me a bit of hope. When he asked me why George Bush is against gay marriage, I explained to him as simply as I could that there are people who think, many for religious reasons, that only men and women should be able to get married and that these people are afraid of the idea that two men or two women might get married because they think it will destroy the kind of life they believe their god tells them they should live. My son sat quietly for a while and then he started laughing, "It just doesn't make sense!" "What doesn't make sense?" "The whole thing. I mean everybody is gay. You love your cousins, and some are boys and some are girls, and kids love both their parents." (His point being, of course, that people of the same sex love each other all the time, and I know he was thinking of his own relationships with his cousins.) "Well, the people who are against gay marriage say that kind of love is okay, but that two men or two women shouldn't be able to live together like maman and I do and be each other's partners and have a family." "How ridiculous is that?! Anybody should be able to marry anyone. Look, even those two buildings"--he pointed to two large Manhattan buildings standing side by side--"they're married to each other. What's the difference if it's two men or two women?" The conversation continued like this for a few more minutes, and then I turned around and said to him, "Shahob, I really like the way you think." His whole face lit up and then it was time to park the car and take him to his classroom. And I have been carrying with me since then this small smile of hope because if my son at five can see what's wrong with the way Bush and company want to shape our lives in the United States--not to mention the rest of the world; and don't get my son going on Iraq--and if my son's impulse is something we can nurture, and if Kerry's loss energizes that impulse in him, then there really is something to look forward to in struggling against Bush's agenda, and the only word to describe how that makes me feel right now is happy. _________________________________ Richard Jeffrey Newman Associate Professor, English Chair, International Education Committee Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu www.ncc.edu richardjeffreynewman.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:34:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today Comments: To: Webartery , Invent-L , Literature and Medicine discussion group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Janine: I know this feeling. But art keeps the humanistic flame burning through the darkness of tyrannical times. It's an underground fire, a joyful smoldering. The Bushes of history come and go, while Whitman remains singing. If anything, this is a time for making poems. -Joel > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janine DeBaise" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:26 AM > Subject: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today > > > > "Sometimes panic would spike up deep within me -- electrical charges of fear registering off the scale -- and I would want to abandon all art and spend all my time in advocacy. I still believed in art but art seemed utterly extravagant in the face of what was happening. If your home were burning, for instance, would you grab a bucket of water to pour on it, or would you step back and write a poem about it?" > > Rick Bass in the Book of Yaak ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:52:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can tell you there were attempts (quickly thwarted) in NYS to float such an amendmnt. And those in leadership in Albany have told me the whole thing orginated from Rove, who -- after all-- led his bi-ped to deafeat Ann Richards by insinuating (w/ flyers left on the winshields of cars parked at Sunday funda- mentalist meetings, which incidentally were also deployed last Sunday in Lake County, Ohio) 1. she had given gays jobs in her government, and 2. she was a lesbian. --Gerald Schwartz > When the gay marriage explosion first started some months > ago, right away I felt something very wrong was in the air. > I mean, the big question I had was, is it possible that this just > happened to be going on so close to one of the most critical > elections of our time, or was it a set up? Either way, the Bush > League was going to use it to their advantage, that much > was clear. > > It is of course possible that it was an organic reaction, part of > an ever growing process of gay civil rights. But at the same > time, Abbie Hoffman spoke openly and passionately up to > the day he was murdered (I'll never believe he was a suicide) > about American intelligence agencies working very hard to > infiltrate and rupture "left" organizations and movements. > > One way or the other, here were these amazing, often > exhilarating spots on the evening news of gay and lesbian > couples lining up at court houses all over America. I couldn't > decide whether to feel happy or wary. > > Then that first speech the president made about amending > the constitution to prevent gay marriage brought the ghost > of Abbie Hoffman to the foreground for me. Bush had a > chilling replay of his 9/11 concerned and protective > Fatherland eyes for his televised viewers. > > The gay marriage focus seemed the perfect smoke screen > to divert attention away from Iraq and all the Haliburton > intrigues. But more than a smoke screen, it was quickly > looking more and more like a perfectly sharpened campaign > weapon. So in my concern, I started asking my friends > what they thought, and since I'm queer I thought I had a > safe footing, and no one would or could accuse me of being > homophobic. Some of my queer friends were furious with > my suspicions, one even hostile about it. Meanwhile, my > heterosexual friends, for the most part, seemed relieved > to talk about it. > > The politically correct atmosphere surrounding the issue > made it that much more of a perfected weapon for The Right. > Straight people on "the left" wouldn't dare say that maybe > we should hold off until November 3rd to dive into this, for > fear of reactions like those from some of my queer friends, > who will leave no room for dialog on the issue, and will > quickly try to strip someone of their "left" associations. > > My narrow-minded, born again Christian family in rural Iowa > and Pennsylvania have always seemed my best barometer > for reactions to American politics and moral issues. When > they talk about Iraq, or the economy, they are clearly unhappy > and critical of the president, but at the same time share a > kind of prerecorded, flat, collective sounding tongue. But when > gay marriage comes up they REALLY want to own their words, > want the insult to be unique, and said with a frightening and > frightened passion. Bush is fully aware of who his audience > is at all times, I'm convinced of this. > > And here comes John Kerry, and everyone wonders how he > feels about gay marriage, which was rapidly becoming a wildfire > crisis in churches across our nation on Sunday mornings. > In my opinion, this issue became the corner Kerry refused to > believe he was backed into. > > Furthermore, abortion was the perfect topic to be interchangeably > and tied with gay marriage as the top two moral battles for > the presidency. If Kerry wouldn't discuss gay marriage, his > openly pro-choice stance could, would, and did conflate nicely > with the immoral tone of gay marriage. Either way, Kerry was > loaded onto the liberal pansy wagon, headed down the > campaign trail. > > The fact that every state that had a referendum on their ballot > asking voters about gay marriage turned out to be a state that > went to George W. Bush is further proof. This was a highly > organized war plan. If you have states where you NEED to > get voters agitated, but the economy is gone wrong, and no one > is too excited about or happy with the president, you make it > clear that they get the chance to vote about a moral issue that > sets their hair on fire. And they showed up, and they were not > interested in Kerry, so they voted for Bush, and voted NO over > and over against gay marriage. > > By the way, I want to point out what horseshit these referendums > on gay marriage are as a tool for making such decisions. Let's > suppose Johnson had said, "Well now, before we go making a > decision on Civil Rights, we need to ask for the opinions of folks > down in Alabama first." If he had done that, instead of doing what > was quite obviously the right thing to do, we may still have separate > drinking fountains all throughout the South. Well, hopefully we > wouldn't, but my point is, you don't ASK people to decide whether > or not something as basic as human rights should be allowed or not. > > But the fact is, I just don't see a candidate with enough courage to > make gay marriage legal because it's the right thing to do. Especially > now that the election was held over a boiling pot of gay marriage, > and won to those who oppose it. > > CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:56:32 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: congrats steve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit toot yr own drum man or bang yr own horn cuz every day's new yrs day ya been googleized immortalized no turnin back now ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:00:34 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, If I were sounding the bell for the American good life that was not my intention. I have almost all my family overseas, and I see the better lives that they lead. And, yet, they all envy our decadent consumer culture in the US. The irony, however, comes with the shock they exhibit when they learn how many hours people in the US all work. The issues that some of us are grappling with today are complex and they do involve ideology, faith, economics, ruthless politics, history, anthropology, psychology, and on and on. A richness for poetry me thinks. I've said this a few times today, and I'll repeat myself: The American system needs to be fed capital, and Bush and Kerry are both corporate hacks. Indeed, their facades are different. Thing would have "looked" different with Kerry in office, but underneath the trading of influence and power would have been the same with different players playing the parts. We might not have witnessed blatant attacks on the American quasi-left, but the exploitation would have been going on underneath the surface nonetheless... On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:01:45 -0600, Joe Amato wrote: > anastasios, i hear you... against the global realities, the u.s. > looks prosperous generally... > > still, i tend not to like to be told that life here is so great, ergo > we shouldn't give a damn about the minimum wage, poverty in the u.s., > etc... not that you're saying this, of course... in fact my sense is > that we ARE all complicit to varying degrees (i repeat: to varying > degrees), but no solution will likely work that fails to engage with > the fact that desire continues unabated... > > some of the best historical materialist thinkers i know drive suv's > and have large cd collections... i don't see that about to change > anytime soon... this does not negate materialist thought as such, but > it does suggest that a solution (as opposed to an analysis of the > problems) will have to account for such desires (which some of the > best thinkers i know can't seem to manage, unsurprisingly)... people > who make their way out of poverty will want what those who have never > lived in poverty have always had... and i can't blame them... or to > put it more autobiographically, i don't blame myself, even if i do > question my desires... push come to shove though, i just love good > cold cuts, and am willing to shell out for same, if you know what i > mean... ditto a smooth interface... > > so i continue to see a very real difference twixt kerry and bush, all > of nader's and others' naysaying aside... again, my time on public > assistance is what i rely on in making such a claim... while i can > imagine other perspectives, that particular perspective feels like > the right one in this case at this time... and as an artist of sorts, > i find the symbolic proportions of this election not a little > difficult to swallow... so the dems may be bankrupt as a party, as > you put it, but we'll need to find an even harsher language to > describe the once and future republican party... > > best, > > joe > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:07:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today In-Reply-To: <015801c4c283$c80e2110$befdfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel Yes, it is a time for making poems. I'm bummed out because of the election results, but because of them I've committed myself to writing because over time writing can change human sensibilities; right now it doesn't look possible to change anything social or political for the better in this country. So I hope to play old Walt till Bush returns to his ranch in Kennebunkport. Best, Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:34 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Fw: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today Janine: I know this feeling. But art keeps the humanistic flame burning through the darkness of tyrannical times. It's an underground fire, a joyful smoldering. The Bushes of history come and go, while Whitman remains singing. If anything, this is a time for making poems. -Joel > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janine DeBaise" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:26 AM > Subject: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today > > > > "Sometimes panic would spike up deep within me -- electrical charges of fear registering off the scale -- and I would want to abandon all art and spend all my time in advocacy. I still believed in art but art seemed utterly extravagant in the face of what was happening. If your home were burning, for instance, would you grab a bucket of water to pour on it, or would you step back and write a poem about it?" > > Rick Bass in the Book of Yaak ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:15:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: <296e379104110408001f14172b@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" anastasios, i can't disagree with you... i'm moved to write simply b/c i don't want us to neglect the fact that (1) seemingly minute differences in leadership often point to huge differences in cultural capital, and (2) though people vote against their interests all the time, there is voting against one's interests and voting against one's interests... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:43:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon In-Reply-To: <1254.67.136.147.139.1099581156.squirrel@67.136.147.139> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Not exactly. That solid blue strip on the left edge of the election night > map included Oregon -- which passed an anti-gay marriage law. > And go figure this: Oregon, allegedly a liberal state, failed to pass an expansion of the 1998 Oregon Medical Marijuana Act. Alaska's also went up in smoke, har har. Montana, the stereotypical land of guns and ranchers, actually PASSED a medical-marijuana ballot initiative. It's more complicated out there than the rightists want us to think it is. Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:26:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Joe -- Just out of curiosity, which one did you do this year? I think I did the latter -- At 11:15 AM 11/4/2004, Joe Amato wrote: >(2) though people vote against their interests all the >time, there is voting against one's interests and voting against >one's interests... > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It don't sound so terrible -- " --Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:11:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Laura (Riding) Jackson: A Panel Discussion at Poets House on 11/4/04 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Is Friedman's book out finally??? Boy, I've been out of the loop. Chris ---------- >From: Poets House >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Laura (Riding) Jackson: A Panel Discussion at Poets House on 11/4= /04 >Date: Wed, Nov 3, 2004, 7:31 PM > > Laura (Riding) Jackson: A Panel Discussion > with Laurel Blossom, Forrest Gander, > Elizabeth Friedmann & Lisa Samuels > Thursday, November 4, 7pm > Poets House, 72 Spring Street, NYC > $7, Free for Members > > Poets and scholars gather to examine the work of Laura (Riding) Jackson > (1901-1991). A prolific poet who published her Collected Poems at age 37 = and > renounced poetry one year later, Laura (Riding) Jackson continued to expl= ore > the relationship between truth and language in such prose works as Ration= al > Meaning: A New Foundation for the Definition of Words. > > As a board member of the Laura Riding Jackson Foundation, Laurel Blossom = has > taught, lectured and published book reviews about Laura Riding Jackson=B9s > work. Blossom is also the author of several books of poetry, most recentl= y > Wednesday: New and Selected Poems. > > Elizabeth Friedmann is the author of A Mannered Grace: The Life of Laura > (Riding) Jackson and editor of The Laura (Riding) Jackson Reader, both > published this year. She co-edited First Awakenings: The Early Poems of > Laura Riding as well as The Word =8CWoman=B9 and Other Related Writings by La= ura > (Riding) Jackson. > > Forrest Gander is the Director of the Graduate Program in Literary > Arts/Creative Writing at Brown University, co-editor of the literary pres= s > Lost Roads Publishers and author of five poetry books, including Science = and > Steepleflower and Torn Awake. > > Lisa Samuels is Assistant Professor of English and Creative Writing at th= e > University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. She has published a poetry collection, > The Seven Voices, and a critical edition of Laura Riding=B9s Anarchism Is N= ot > Enough. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:06:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041104122604.026c37a8@email.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" aldon, i think i did the former... but since i'm sure we think alike about this, i may well have done the latter... in any case i think louis menand's piece in ~the new yorker~ a while back (30 aug.), "how voters make their choices," gets at least at the sad realities of voting in the u.s. (and what ABOUT that 40% that didn't vote?)... i'm all for getting at these realities, but don't believe we'll turn the current ideological-political situation around anytime soon, and certainly not in the absence of substantive changes not only tactically, but imaginatively (i.e., in the way we believe our beliefs, our social fictions and convictions)... even if bush melts down in his second term---and many second terms do melt down---the damage he and his crew will effect meanwhile will be with us for years to come, i would say (and most directly, we can thank reagan for this)... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:07:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: The Ballot or the Bullet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/33494.php The Ballot or the Bullet So, I\'m not standing here speaking to you as an American, or a patriot, or a flag-saluter, or a flag-waver -- no, not I. I\'m speaking as a victim of this American system. And I see America through the eyes of the victim. I don\'t see any American dream; I see an American nightmare....let them know your eyes are open. And let them know you got something else that\'s wide open too. It\'s got to be the ballot or the bullet. The ballot or the bullet. If you\'re afraid to use an expression like that, you should get on out of the country, you should get back in the cotton patch, you should get back in the alley. The Ballot or the Bullet Malcolm X April 3, 1964 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [1] Mr. Moderator, Brother Lomax, brothers and sisters, friends and enemies: I just can't believe everyone in here is a friend and I don't want to leave anybody out. The question tonight, as I understand it, is "The Negro Revolt, and Where Do We Go From Here?" or What Next?" In my little humble way of understanding it, it points toward either the ballot or the bullet. [2] Before we try and explain what is meant by the ballot or the bullet, I would like to clarify something concerning myself. I'm still a Muslim, my religion is still Islam. That's my personal belief. Just as Adam Clayton Powell is a Christian minister who heads the Abyssinian Baptist Church in New York, but at the same time takes part in the political struggles to try and bring about rights to the black people in this country; and Dr. Martin Luther King is a Christian minister down in Atlanta, Georgia, who heads another organization fighting for the civil rights of black people in this country; and Rev. Galamison, I guess you've heard of him, is another Christian minister in New York who has been deeply involved in the school boycotts to eliminate segregated education; well, I myself am a minister, not a Christian minister, but a Muslim minister; and I believe in action on all fronts by whatever means necessary. [3] Although I'm still a Muslim, I'm not here tonight to discuss my religion. I'm not here to try and change your religion. I'm not here to argue or discuss anything that we differ about, because it's time for us to submerge our differences and realize that it is best for us to first see that we have the same problem, a common problem, a problem that will make you catch hell whether you're a Baptist, or a Methodist, or a Muslim, or a nationalist. Whether you're educated or illiterate, whether you live on the boulevard or in the alley, you're going to catch hell just like I am. We're all in the same boat and we all are going to catch the same hell from the same man. He just happens to be a white man. All of us have suffered here, in this country, political oppression at the hands of the white man, economic exploitation at the hands of the white man, and social degradation at the hands of the white man. [4] Now in speaking like this, it doesn't mean that we're anti-white, but it does mean we're anti-exploitation, we're anti-degradation, we're anti-oppression. And if the white man doesn't want us to be anti-him, let him stop oppressing and exploiting and degrading us. Whether we are Christians or Muslims or nationalists or agnostics or atheists, we must first learn to forget our differences. If we have differences, let us differ in the closet; when we come out in front, let us not have anything to argue about until we get finished arguing with the man. If the late President Kennedy could get together with Khrushchev and exchange some wheat, we certainly have more in common with each other than Kennedy and Khrushchev had with each other. [5] If we don't do something real soon, I think you'll have to agree that we're going to be forced either to use the ballot or the bullet. It's one or the other in 1964. It isn't that time is running out -- time has run out! 1964 threatens to be the most explosive year America has ever witnessed. The most explosive year. Why? It's also a political year. It's the year when all of the white politicians will be back in the so-called Negro community jiving you and me for some votes. The year when all of the white political crooks will be right back in your and my community with their false promises, building up our hopes for a letdown, with their trickery and their treachery, with their false promises which they don't intend to keep. As they nourish these dissatisfactions, it can only lead to one thing, an explosion; and now we have the type of black man on the scene in America today -- I'm sorry, Brother Lomax -- who just doesn't intend to turn the other cheek any longer. [6] Don't let anybody tell you anything about the odds are against you. If they draft you, they send you to Korea and make you face 800 million Chinese. If you can be brave over there, you can be brave right here. These odds aren't as great as those odds. And if you fight here, you will at least know what you're fighting for. [7] I'm not a politician, not even a student of politics; in fact, I'm not a student of much of anything. I'm not a Democrat, I'm not a Republican, and I don't even consider myself an American. If you and I were Americans, there'd be no problem. Those Hunkies that just got off the boat, they're already Americans; Polacks are already Americans; the Italian refugees are already Americans. Everything that came out of Europe, every blue-eyed thing, is already an American. And as long as you and I have been over here, we aren't Americans yet. [8] Well, I am one who doesn't believe in deluding myself. I'm not going to sit at your table and watch you eat, with nothing on my plate, and call myself a diner. Sitting at the table doesn't make you a diner, unless you eat some of what's on that plate. Being here in America doesn't make you an American. Being born here in America doesn't make you an American. Why, if birth made you American, you wouldn't need any legislation, you wouldn't need any amendments to the Constitution, you wouldn't be faced with civil-rights filibustering in Washington, D.C., right now. They don't have to pass civil-rights legislation to make a Polack an American. [9] No, I'm not an American. I'm one of the 22 million black people who are the victims of Americanism. One of the 22 million black people who are the victims of democracy, nothing but disguised hypocrisy. So, I'm not standing here speaking to you as an American, or a patriot, or a flag-saluter, or a flag-waver -- no, not I. I'm speaking as a victim of this American system. And I see America through the eyes of the victim. I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare. [10] These 22 million victims are waking up. Their eyes are coming open. They're beginning to see what they used to only look at. They're becoming politically mature. They are realizing that there are new political trends from coast to coast. As they see these new political trends, it's possible for them to see that every time there's an election the races are so close that they have to have a recount. They had to recount in Massachusetts to see who was going to be governor, it was so close. It was the same way in Rhode Island, in Minnesota, and in many other parts of the country. And the same with Kennedy and Nixon when they ran for president. It was so close they had to count all over again. Well, what does this mean? It means that when white people are evenly divided, and black people have a bloc of votes of their own, it is left up to them to determine who's going to sit in the White House and who's going to be in the dog house. [11] It was the black man's vote that put the present administration in Washington, D.C. Your vote, your dumb vote, your ignorant vote, your wasted vote put in an ad ministration in Washington, D.C., that has seen fit to pass every kind of legislation imaginable, saving you until last, then filibustering on top of that. And your and my leaders have the audacity to run around clapping their hands and talk about how much progress we're making. And what a good president we have. If he wasn't good in Texas, he sure can't be good in Washington, D.C. Because Texas is a lynch state. It is in the same breath as Mississippi, no different; only they lynch you in Texas with a Texas accent and lynch you in Mississippi with a Mississippi accent. And these Negro leaders have the audacity to go and have some coffee in the White House with a Texan, a Southern cracker -- that's all he is -- and then come out and tell you and me that he's going to be better for us because, since he's from the South, he knows how to deal with the Southerners. What kind of logic is that? Let Eastland be president, he's from the South too. He should be better able to deal with them than Johnson. [12] In this present administration they have in the House of Representatives 257 Democrats to only 177 Republicans. They control two-thirds of the House vote. Why can't they pass something that will help you and me? In the Senate, there are 67 senators who are of the Democratic Party. Only 33 of them are Republicans. Why, the Democrats have got the government sewed up, and you're the one who sewed it up for them. And what have they given you for it? Four years in office, and just now getting around to some civil-rights legislation. Just now, after everything else is gone, out of the way, they're going to sit down now and play with you all summer long -- the same old giant con game that they call filibuster. All those are in cahoots together. Don't you ever think they're not in cahoots together, for the man that is heading the civil-rights filibuster is a man from Georgia named Richard Russell. When Johnson became president, the first man he asked for when he got back to Washington, D.C., was "Dicky" -- that's how tight they are. That's his boy, that's his pal, that's his buddy. But they're playing that old con game. One of them makes believe he's for you, and he's got it fixed where the other one is so tight against you, he never has to keep his promise. [13] So it's time in 1964 to wake up. And when you see them coming up with that kind of conspiracy, let them know your eyes are open. And let them know you got something else that's wide open too. It's got to be the ballot or the bullet. The ballot or the bullet. If you're afraid to use an expression like that, you should get on out of the country, you should get back in the cotton patch, you should get back in the alley. They get all the Negro vote, and after they get it, the Negro gets nothing in return. All they did when they got to Washington was give a few big Negroes big jobs. Those big Negroes didn't need big jobs, they already had jobs. That's camouflage, that's trickery, that's treachery, window-dressing. I'm not trying to knock out the Democrats for the Republicans, we'll get to them in a minute. But it is true -- you put the Democrats first and the Democrats put you last. [14] Look at it the way it is. What alibis do they use, since they control Congress and the Senate? What alibi do they use when you and I ask, "Well, when are you going to keep your promise?" They blame the Dixiecrats. What is a Dixiecrat? A Democrat. A Dixiecrat is nothing but a Democrat in disguise. The titular head of the Democrats is also the head of the Dixiecrats, because the Dixiecrats are a part of the Democratic Party. The Democrats have never kicked the Dixiecrats out of the party. The Dixiecrats bolted themselves once, but the Democrats didn't put them out. Imagine, these lowdown Southern segregationists put the Northern Democrats down. But the Northern Democrats have never put the Dixiecrats down. No, look at that thing the way it is. They have got a con game going on, a political con game, and you and I are in the middle. It's time for you and me to wake up and start looking at it like it is, and trying to understand it like it is; and then we can deal with it like it is. [15] The Dixiecrats in Washington, D.C., control the key committees that run the government. The only reason the Dixiecrats control these committees is because they have seniority. The only reason they have seniority is because they come from states where Negroes can't vote. This is not even a government that's based on democracy. It is not a government that is made up of representatives of the people. Half of the people in the South can't even vote. Eastland is not even supposed to be in Washington. Half of the senators and congressmen who occupy these key positions in Washington, D.C., are there illegally, are there unconstitutionally. [16] I was in Washington, D.C., a week ago Thursday, when they were debating whether or not they should let the bill come onto the floor. And in the back of the room where the Senate meets, there's a huge map of the United States, and on that map it shows the location of Negroes throughout the country. And it shows that the Southern section of the country, the states that are most heavily concentrated with Negroes, are the ones that have senators and congressmen standing up filibustering and doing all other kinds of trickery to keep the Negro from being able to vote. This is pitiful. But it's not pitiful for us any longer; it's actually pitiful for the white man, because soon now, as the Negro awakens a little more and sees the vise that he's in, sees the bag that he's in, sees the real game that he's in, then the Negro's going to develop a new tactic. [17] These senators and congressmen actually violate the constitutional amendments that guarantee the people of that particular state or county the right to vote. And the Constitution itself has within it the machinery to expel any representative from a state where the voting rights of the people are violated. You don't even need new legislation. Any person in Congress right now, who is there from a state or a district where the voting rights of the people are violated, that particular person should be expelled from Congress. And when you expel him, you've removed one of the obstacles in the path of any real meaningful legislation in this country. In fact, when you expel them, you don't need new legislation, because they will be replaced by black representatives from counties and districts where the black man is in the majority, not in the minority. [18] If the black man in these Southern states had his full voting rights, the key Dixiecrats in Washington, D. C., which means the key Democrats in Washington, D.C., would lose their seats. The Democratic Party itself would lose its power. It would cease to be powerful as a party. When you see the amount of power that would be lost by the Democratic Party if it were to lose the Dixiecrat wing, or branch, or element, you can see where it's against the interests of the Democrats to give voting rights to Negroes in states where the Democrats have been in complete power and authority ever since the Civil War. You just can't belong to that Party without analyzing it. [19] I say again, I'm not anti-Democrat, I'm not anti Republican, I'm not anti-anything. I'm just questioning their sincerity, and some of the strategy that they've been using on our people by promising them promises that they don't intend to keep. When you keep the Democrats in power, you're keeping the Dixiecrats in power. I doubt that my good Brother Lomax will deny that. A vote for a Democrat is a vote for a Dixiecrat. That's why, in 1964, it's time now for you and me to become more politically mature and realize what the ballot is for; what we're sup posed to get when we cast a ballot; and that if we don't cast a ballot, it's going to end up in a situation where we're going to have to cast a bullet. It's either a ballot or a bullet. [20] In the North, they do it a different way. They have a system that's known as gerrymandering, whatever that means. It means when Negroes become too heavily concentrated in a certain area, and begin to gain too much political power, the white man comes along and changes the district lines. You may say, "Why do you keep saying white man?" Because it's the white man who does it. I haven't ever seen any Negro changing any lines. They don't let him get near the line. It's the white man who does this. And usually, it's the white man who grins at you the most, and pats you on the back, and is supposed to be your friend. He may be friendly, but he's not your friend. [21] So, what I'm trying to impress upon you, in essence, is this: You and I in America are faced not with a segregationist conspiracy, we're faced with a government conspiracy. Everyone who's filibustering is a senator -- that's the government. Everyone who's finagling in Washington, D.C., is a congressman -- that's the government. You don't have anybody putting blocks in your path but people who are a part of the government. The same government that you go abroad to fight for and die for is the government that is in a conspiracy to deprive you of your voting rights, deprive you of your economic opportunities, deprive you of decent housing, deprive you of decent education. You don't need to go to the employer alone, it is the government itself, the government of America, that is responsible for the oppression and exploitation and degradation of black people in this country. And you should drop it in their lap. This government has failed the Negro. This so-called democracy has failed the Negro. And all these white liberals have definitely failed the Negro. [22] So, where do we go from here? First, we need some friends. We need some new allies. The entire civil-rights struggle needs a new interpretation, a broader interpretation. We need to look at this civil-rights thing from another angle -- from the inside as well as from the outside. To those of us whose philosophy is black nationalism, the only way you can get involved in the civil-rights struggle is give it a new interpretation. That old interpretation excluded us. It kept us out. So, we're giving a new interpretation to the civil-rights struggle, an interpretation that will enable us to come into it, take part in it. And these handkerchief-heads who have been dillydallying and pussy footing and compromising -- we don't intend to let them pussyfoot and dillydally and compromise any longer. [23] How can you thank a man for giving you what's already yours? How then can you thank him for giving you only part of what's already yours? You haven't even made progress, if what's being given to you, you should have had already. That's not progress. And I love my Brother Lomax, the way he pointed out we're right back where we were in 1954. We're not even as far up as we were in 1954. We're behind where we were in 1954. There's more segregation now than there was in 1954. There's more racial animosity, more racial hatred, more racial violence today in 1964, than there was in 1954. Where is the progress? [24] And now you're facing a situation where the young Negro's coming up. They don't want to hear that "turn the-other-cheek" stuff, no. In Jacksonville, those were teenagers, they were throwing Molotov cocktails. Negroes have never done that before. But it shows you there's a new deal coming in. There's new thinking coming in. There's new strategy coming in. It'll be Molotov cocktails this month, hand grenades next month, and something else next month. It'll be ballots, or it'll be bullets. It'll be liberty, or it will be death. The only difference about this kind of death -- it'll be reciprocal. You know what is meant by "reciprocal"? That's one of Brother Lomax's words, I stole it from him. I don't usually deal with those big words because I don't usually deal with big people. I deal with small people. I find you can get a whole lot of small people and whip hell out of a whole lot of big people. They haven't got anything to lose, and they've got every thing to gain. And they'll let you know in a minute: "It takes two to tango; when I go, you go." [25] The black nationalists, those whose philosophy is black nationalism, in bringing about this new interpretation of the entire meaning of civil rights, look upon it as meaning, as Brother Lomax has pointed out, equality of opportunity. Well, we're justified in seeking civil rights, if it means equality of opportunity, because all we're doing there is trying to collect for our investment. Our mothers and fathers invested sweat and blood. Three hundred and ten years we worked in this country without a dime in return -- I mean without a dime in return. You let the white man walk around here talking about how rich this country is, but you never stop to think how it got rich so quick. It got rich because you made it rich. [26] You take the people who are in this audience right now. They're poor, we're all poor as individuals. Our weekly salary individually amounts to hardly anything. But if you take the salary of everyone in here collectively it'll fill up a whole lot of baskets. It's a lot of wealth. If you can collect the wages of just these people right here for a year, you'll be rich -- richer than rich. When you look at it like that, think how rich Uncle Sam had to become, not with this handful, but millions of black people. Your and my mother and father, who didn't work an eight-hour shift, but worked from "can't see" in the morning until "can't see" at night, and worked for nothing, making the white man rich, making Uncle Sam rich. [27] This is our investment. This is our contribution -- our blood. Not only did we give of our free labor, we gave of our blood. Every time he had a call to arms, we were the first ones in uniform. We died on every battlefield the white man had. We have made a greater sacrifice than anybody who's standing up in America today. We have made a greater contribution and have collected less. Civil rights, for those of us whose philosophy is black nationalism, means: "Give it to us now. Don't wait for next year. Give it to us yesterday, and that's not fast enough." [28] I might stop right here to point out one thing. When ever you're going after something that belongs to you, anyone who's depriving you of the right to have it is a criminal. Understand that. Whenever you are going after something that is yours, you are within your legal rights to lay claim to it. And anyone who puts forth any effort to deprive you of that which is yours, is breaking the law, is a criminal. And this was pointed out by the Supreme Court decision. It outlawed segregation. Which means segregation is against the law. Which means a segregationist is breaking the law. A segregationist is a criminal. You can't label him as anything other than that. And when you demonstrate against segregation, the law is on your side. The Supreme Court is on your side. [29] Now, who is it that opposes you in carrying out the law? The police department itself. With police dogs and clubs. Whenever you demonstrate against segregation, whether it is segregated education, segregated housing, or anything else, the law is on your side, and anyone who stands in the way is not the law any longer. They are breaking the law, they are not representatives of the law. Any time you demonstrate against segregation and a man has the audacity to put a police dog on you, kill that dog, kill him, I'm telling you, kill that dog. I say it, if they put me in jail tomorrow, kill that dog. Then you'll put a stop to it. Now, if these white people in here don't want to see that kind of action, get down and tell the mayor to tell the police department to pull the dogs in. That's all you have to do. If you don't do it, someone else will. [30] If you don't take this kind of stand, your little children will grow up and look at you and think "shame." If you don't take an uncompromising stand -- I don't mean go out and get violent; but at the same time you should never be nonviolent unless you run into some nonviolence. I'm nonviolent with those who are nonviolent with me. But when you drop that violence on me, then you've made me go insane, and I'm not responsible for what I do. And that's the way every Negro should get. Any time you know you're within the law, within your legal rights, within your moral rights, in accord with justice, then die for what you believe in. But don't die alone. Let your dying be reciprocal. This is what is meant by equality. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. [31] When we begin to get in this area, we need new fiends, we need new allies. We need to expand the civil-rights struggle to a higher level--to the level of human rights. Whenever you are in a civil-rights struggle, whether you know it or not, you are confining yourself to the jurisdiction of Uncle Sam. No one from the outside world can speak out in your behalf as long as your struggle is a civil-rights struggle. Civil rights comes within the domestic affairs of this country. All of our African brothers and our Asian brothers and our Latin-American brothers cannot open their mouths and interfere in the domestic affairs of the United States. And as long as it's civil rights, this comes under the jurisdiction of Uncle Sam. [32] But the United Nations has what's known as the charter of human rights, it has a committee that deals in human rights. You may wonder why all of the atrocities that have been committed in Africa and in Hungary and in Asia and in Latin America are brought before the UN, and the Negro problem is never brought before the UN. This is part of the conspiracy. This old,~ tricky, blue eyed liberal who is supposed to be your and my friend, supposed to be in our corner, supposed to be subsidizing our struggle, and supposed to be acting in the capacity of an adviser, never tells you anything about human rights. They keep you wrapped up in civil rights. And you spend so much time barking up the civil-rights tree, you don't even know there's a human-rights tree on the same floor. [33] When you expand the civil-rights struggle to the level of human rights, you can then take the case of the black man in this country before the nations in the UN. You can take it before the General Assembly. You can take Uncle Sam before a world court. But the only level you can do it on is the level of human rights. Civil rights keeps you under his restrictions, under his jurisdiction. Civil rights keeps you in his pocket. Civil rights means you're asking Uncle Sam to treat you right. Human rights are some thing you were born with. Human rights are your God given rights. Human rights are the rights that are recognized by all nations of this earth. And any time any one violates your human rights, you can take them to the world court. Uncle Sam's hands are dripping with blood, dripping with the blood of the black man in this country. He's the earth's number-one hypocrite. He has the audacity -- yes, he has -- imagine him posing as the leader of the free world. The free world! And you over here singing "We Shall Overcome." Expand the civil-rights struggle to the level of human rights, take it into the United Nations, where our African brothers can throw their weight on our side, where our Asian brothers can throw their weight on our side, where our Latin-American brothers can throw their weight on our side, and where 800 million Chinamen are sitting there waiting to throw their weight on our side. [34] Let the world know how bloody his hands are. Let the world know the hypocrisy that's practiced over here. Let it be the ballot or the bullet. Let him know that it must be the ballot or the bullet. [35] When you take your case to Washington, D.C., you're taking it to the criminal who's responsible; it's like running from the wolf to the fox. They're all in cahoots together. They all work political chicanery and make you look like a chump before the eyes of the world. Here you are walking around in America, getting ready to be drafted and sent abroad, like a tin soldier, and when you get over there, people ask you what are you fighting for, and you have to stick your tongue in your cheek. No, take Uncle Sam to court, take him before the world. [36] By ballot I only mean freedom. Don't you know -- I disagree with Lomax on this issue -- that the ballot is more important than the dollar? Can I prove it? Yes. Look in the UN. There are poor nations in the UN; yet those poor nations can get together with their voting power and keep the rich nations from making a move. They have one nation -- one vote, everyone has an equal vote. And when those brothers from Asia, and Africa and the darker parts of this earth get together, their voting power is sufficient to hold Sam in check. Or Russia in check. Or some other section of the earth in check. So, the ballot is most important. [37] Right now, in this country, if you and I, 22 million African-Americans -- that's what we are -- Africans who are in America. You're nothing but Africans. Nothing but Africans. In fact, you'd get farther calling yourself African instead of Negro. Africans don't catch hell. You're the only one catching hell. They don't have to pass civil-rights bills for Africans. An African can go anywhere he wants right now. All you've got to do is tie your head up. That's right, go anywhere you want. Just stop being a Negro. Change your name to Hoogagagooba. That'll show you how silly the white man is. You're dealing with a silly man. A friend of mine who's very dark put a turban on his head and went into a restaurant in Atlanta before they called themselves desegregated. He went into a white restaurant, he sat down, they served him, and he said, "What would happen if a Negro came in here? And there he's sitting, black as night, but because he had his head wrapped up the waitress looked back at him and says, "Why, there wouldn't no nigger dare come in here." [38] So, you're dealing with a man whose bias and prejudice are making him lose his mind, his intelligence, every day. He's frightened. He looks around and sees what's taking place on this earth, and he sees that the pendulum of time is swinging in your direction. The dark people are waking up. They're losing their fear of the white man. No place where he's fighting right now is he winning. Everywhere he's fighting, he's fighting someone your and my complexion. And they're beating him. He can't win any more. He's won his last battle. He failed to win the Korean War. He couldn't win it. He had to sign a truce. That's a loss. Any time Uncle Sam, with all his machinery for warfare, is held to a draw by some rice eaters, he's lost the battle. He had to sign a truce. America's not supposed to sign a truce. She's supposed to be bad. But she's not bad any more. She's bad as long as she can use her hydrogen bomb, but she can't use hers for fear Russia might use hers. Russia can't use hers, for fear that Sam might use his. So, both of them are weapon less. They can't use the weapon because each's weapon nullifies the other's. So the only place where action can take place is on the ground. And the white man can't win another war fighting on the ground. Those days are over The black man knows it, the brown man knows it, the red man knows it, and the yellow man knows it. So they en gage him in guerrilla warfare. That's not his style. You've got to have heart to be a guerrilla warrior, and he hasn't got any heart. I'm telling you now. [39] I just want to give you a little briefing on guerrilla warfare because, before you know it, before you know it.... It takes heart to be a guerrilla warrior because you're on your own. In conventional warfare you have tanks and a whole lot of other people with you to back you up, planes over your head and all that kind of stuff. But a guerrilla is on his own. All you have is a rifle, some sneakers and a bowl of rice, and that's all you need -- and a lot of heart. The Japanese on some of those islands in the Pacific, when the American soldiers landed, one Japanese sometimes could hold the whole army off. He'd just wait until the sun went down, and when the sun went down they were all equal. He would take his little blade and slip from bush to bush, and from American to American. The white soldiers couldn't cope with that. Whenever you see a white soldier that fought in the Pacific, he has the shakes, he has a nervous condition, because they scared him to death. [40] The same thing happened to the French up in French Indochina. People who just a few years previously were rice farmers got together and ran the heavily-mechanized French army out of Indochina. You don't need it -- modern warfare today won't work. This is the day of the guerrilla. They did the same thing in Algeria. Algerians, who were nothing but Bedouins, took a knife and sneaked off to the hills, and de Gaulle and all of his highfalutin' war machinery couldn't defeat those guerrillas. Nowhere on this earth does the white man win in a guerrilla warfare. It's not his speed. Just as guerrilla warfare is prevailing in Asia and in parts of Africa and in parts of Latin America, you've got to be mighty naive, or you've got to play the black man cheap, if you don't think some day he's going to wake up and find that it's got to be the ballot or the bullet. [41] I would like to say, in closing, a few things concerning the Muslim Mosque, Inc., which we established recently in New York City. It's true we're Muslims and our religion is Islam, but we don't mix our religion with our politics and our economics and our social and civil activities -- not any more. We keep our religion in our mosque. After our religious services are over, then as Muslims we become involved in political action, economic action and social and civic action. We become involved with anybody, any where, any time and in any manner that's designed to eliminate the evils, the political, economic and social evils that are afflicting the people of our community. [42] The political philosophy of black nationalism means that the black man should control the politics and the politicians in his own community; no more. The black man in the black community has to be re-educated into the science of politics so he will know what politics is supposed to bring him in return. Don't be throwing out any ballots. A ballot is like a bullet. You don't throw your ballots until you see a target, and if that target is not within your reach, keep your ballot in your pocket. The political philosophy of black nationalism is being taught in the Christian church. It's being taught in the NAACP. It's being taught in CORE meetings. It's being taught in SNCC Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee meetings. It's being taught in Muslim meetings. It's being taught where nothing but atheists and agnostics come together. It's being taught everywhere. Black people are fed up with the dillydallying, pussyfooting, compromising approach that we've been using toward getting our freedom. We want freedom now, but we're not going to get it saying "We Shall Overcome." We've got to fight until we overcome. [43] The economic philosophy of black nationalism is pure and simple. It only means that we should control the economy of our community. Why should white people be running all the stores in our community? Why should white people be running the banks of our community? Why should the economy of our community be in the hands of the white man? Why? If a black man can't move his store into a white community, you tell me why a white man should move his store into a black community. The philosophy of black nationalism involves a re-education program in the black community in regards to economics. Our people have to be made to see that any time you take your dollar out of your community and spend it in a community where you don't live, the community where you live will get poorer and poorer, and the community where you spend your money will get richer and richer. Then you wonder why where you live is always a ghetto or a slum area. And where you and I are concerned, not only do we lose it when we spend it out of the community, but the white man has got all our stores in the community tied up; so that though we spend it in the community, at sundown the man who runs the store takes it over across town somewhere. He's got us in a vise. [44] So the economic philosophy of black nationalism means in every church, in every civic organization, in every fraternal order, it's time now for our people to be come conscious of the importance of controlling the economy of our community. If we own the stores, if we operate the businesses, if we try and establish some industry in our own community, then we're developing to the position where we are creating employment for our own kind. Once you gain control of the economy of your own community, then you don't have to picket and boycott and beg some cracker downtown for a job in his business. [45] The social philosophy of black nationalism only means that we have to get together and remove the evils, the vices, alcoholism, drug addiction, and other evils that are destroying the moral fiber of our community. We our selves have to lift the level of our community, the standard of our community to a higher level, make our own society beautiful so that we will be satisfied in our own social circles and won't be running around here trying to knock our way into a social circle where we're not wanted. [46] So I say, in spreading a gospel such as black nationalism, it is not designed to make the black man re-evaluate the white man -- you know him already -- but to make the black man re-evaluate himself. Don't change the white man's mind -- you can't change his mind, and that whole thing about appealing to the moral conscience of America -- America's conscience is bankrupt. She lost all conscience a long time ago. Uncle Sam has no conscience. They don't know what morals are. They don't try and eliminate an evil because it's evil, or because it's illegal, or because it's immoral; they eliminate it only when it threatens their existence. So you're wasting your time appealing to the moral conscience of a bankrupt man like Uncle Sam. If he had a conscience, he'd straighten this thing out with no more pressure being put upon him. So it is not necessary to change the white man's mind. We have to change our own mind. You can't change his mind about us. We've got to change our own minds about each other. We have to see each other with new eyes. We have to see each other as brothers and sisters. We have to come together with warmth so we can develop unity and harmony that's necessary to get this problem solved our selves. How can we do this? How can we avoid jealousy? How can we avoid the suspicion and the divisions that exist in the community? I'll tell you how. [47] I have watched how Billy Graham comes into a city, spreading what he calls the gospel of Christ, which is only white nationalism. That's what he is. Billy Graham is a white nationalist; I'm a black nationalist. But since it's the natural tendency for leaders to be jealous and look upon a powerful figure like Graham with suspicion and envy, how is it possible for him to come into a city and get all the cooperation of the church leaders? Don't think because they're church leaders that they don't have weaknesses that make them envious and jealous -- no, everybody's got it. It's not an accident that when they want to choose a cardinal as Pope over there in Rome, they get in a closet so you can't hear them cussing and fighting and carrying on. [48] Billy Graham comes in preaching the gospel of Christ, he evangelizes the gospel, he stirs everybody up, but he never tries to start a church. If he came in trying to start a church, all the churches would be against him. So, he just comes in talking about Christ and tells everybody who gets Christ to go to any church where Christ is; and in this way the church cooperates with him. So we're going to take a page from his book. Our gospel is black nationalism. We're not trying to threaten the existence of any organization, but we're spreading the gospel of black nationalism. Anywhere there's a church that is also preaching and practicing the gospel of black nationalism, join that church. If the NAACP is preaching and practicing the gospel of black nationalism, join the NAACP. If CORE is spreading and practicing the gospel of black nationalism, join CORE. Join any organization that has a gospel that's for the uplift of the black man. And when you get into it and see them pussyfooting or compromising, pull out of it because that's not black nationalism. We'll find another one. [49] And in this manner, the organizations will increase in number and in quantity and in quality, and by August, it is then our intention to have a black nationalist convention which will consist of delegates from all over the country who are interested in the political, economic and social philosophy of black nationalism. After these delegates convene, we will hold a seminar, we will hold discussions, we will listen to everyone. We want to hear new ideas and new solutions and new answers. And at that time, if we see fit then to form a black nationalist party, we'll form a black nationalist party. If it's necessary to form a black nationalist army, we'll form a black nationalist army. It'll be the ballot or the bullet. It'll be liberty or it'll be death. [50] It's time for you and me to stop sitting in this country, letting some cracker senators, Northern crackers and Southern crackers, sit there in Washington, D.C., and come to a conclusion in their mind that you and I are supposed to have civil rights. There's no white man going to tell me anything about my rights. Brothers and sisters, always remember, if it doesn't take senators and congressmen and presidential proclamations to give freedom to the white man, it is not necessary for legislation or proclamation or Supreme Court decisions to give freedom to the black man. You let that white man know, if this is a country of freedom, let it be a country of freedom; and if it's not a country of freedom, change it. [51] We will work with anybody, anywhere, at any time, who is genuinely interested in tackling the problem head-on, nonviolently as long as the enemy is nonviolent, but violent when the enemy gets violent. We'll work with you on the voter-registration drive, we'll work with you on rent strikes, we'll work with you on school boycotts -- I don't believe in any kind of integration; I'm not even worried about it because I know you're not going to get it anyway; you're not going to get it because you're afraid to die; you've got to be ready to die if you try and force yourself on the white man, because he'll get just as violent as those crackers in Mississippi, right here in Cleveland. But we will still work with you on the school boycotts be cause we're against a segregated school system. A segregated school system produces children who, when they graduate, graduate with crippled minds. But this does not mean that a school is segregated because it's all black. A segregated school means a school that is controlled by people who have no real interest in it whatsoever. [52] Let me explain what I mean. A segregated district or community is a community in which people live, but outsiders control the politics and the economy of that community. They never refer to the white section as a segregated community. It's the all-Negro section that's a segregated community. Why? The white man controls his own school, his own bank, his own economy, his own politics, his own everything, his own community -- but he also controls yours. When you're under someone else's control, you're segregated. They'll always give you the lowest or the worst that there is to offer, but it doesn't mean you're segregated just because you have your own. You've got to control your own. Just like the white man has control of his, you need to control yours. [53] You know the best way to get rid of segregation? The white man is more afraid of separation than he is of integration. Segregation means that he puts you away from him, but not far enough for you to be out of his jurisdiction; separation means you're gone. And the white man will integrate faster than he'll let you separate. So we will work with you against t}~e segregated school system because it's criminal, because it is absolutely destructive, in every way imaginable, to the minds of the children who have to be exposed to that type of crippling education. Last but not least, I must say this concerning the great controversy over rifles and shotguns. The only thing that I've ever said is that in areas where the government has proven itself either unwilling or unable to defend the lives and the property of Negroes, it's time for Negroes to defend themselves. Article number two of the constitutional amendments provides you and me the right to own a rifle or a shotgun. It is constitutionally legal to own a shotgun or a rifle. This doesn't mean you're going to get a rifle and form battalions and go out looking for white folks, although you'd be within your rights -- I mean, you'd be justified; but that would be illegal and we don't do anything illegal. If the white man doesn't want the black man buying rifles and shotguns, then let the government do its job. That's all. And don't let the white man come to you and ask you what you think about what Malcolm says -- why, you old Uncle Tom. He would never ask you if he thought you were going to say, "Amen!" No, he is making a Tom out of you." So, this doesn't mean forming rifle clubs and going out looking for people, but it is time, in 1964, if you are a man, to let that man know. If he's not going to do his job in running the government and providing you and me with the protection that our taxes are supposed to be for, since he spends all those billions for his defense budget, he certainly can't begrudge you and me spending $12 or $15 for a single-shot, or double-action. I hope you under stand. Don't go out shooting people, but any time, brothers and sisters, and especially the men in this audience -- some of you wearing Congressional Medals of Honor, with shoulders this wide, chests this big, muscles that big -- any time you and I sit around and read where they bomb a church and murder in cold blood, not some grownups, but four little girls while they were praying to the same god the white man taught them to pray to, and you and I see the government go down and can't find who did it. Why, this man -- he can find Eichmann hiding down in Argentina somewhere. Let two or three American soldiers, who are minding somebody else's business way over in South Vietnam, get killed, and he'll send battleships, sticking his nose in their business. He wanted to send troops down to Cuba and make them have what he calls free elections -- this old cracker who doesn't have free elections in his own country. No, if you never see me another time in your life, if I die in the morning, I'll die saying one thing: the ballot or the bullet, the ballot or the bullet. [54] If a Negro in 1964 has to sit around and wait for some cracker senator to filibuster when it comes to the rights of black people, why, you and I should hang our heads in shame. You talk about a march on Washington in 1963, you haven't seen anything. There's some more going down in '64. And this time they're not going like they went last year. They're not going singing ''We Shall Overcome." They're not going with white friends. They're not going with placards already painted for them. They're not going with round-trip tickets. They're going with one way tickets. [55] And if they don't want that non-nonviolent army going down there, tell them to bring the filibuster to a halt. The black nationalists aren't going to wait. Lyndon B. Johnson is the head of the Democratic Party. If he's for civil rights, let him go into the Senate next week and declare himself. Let him go in there right now and declare himself. Let him go in there and denounce the Southern branch of his party. Let him go in there right now and take a moral stand -- right now, not later. Tell him, don't wait until election time. If he waits too long, brothers and sisters, he will be responsible for letting a condition develop in this country which will create a climate that will bring seeds up out of the ground with vegetation on the end of them looking like something these people never dreamed of. In 1964, it's the ballot or the bullet. Thank you. ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:50:24 -0800 Reply-To: jmbettridge@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Bettridge Subject: Michael Palmer reading at Yale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Please join us for a poetry reading by Michael Palmer on Wednesday, November 10, 4 pm, at the Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, 121 Wall Street. A reception will follow; this event is free and open to the public. For additional information about the Yale Collection of American Literature Reading Series please contact Nancy Kuhl at 432-2966 or nancy.kuhl@yale.edu. Michael Palmer is the author of more than fifteen collections of poetry, including Codes Appearing: Poems 1979-1988 (2001), The Promises of Glass (2000), The Lion Bridge: Selected Poems 1972-1995 (1998), At Passages (1996), Sun (1988), First Figure (1984), Notes for Echo Lake (1981), Without Music (1977), The Circular Gates (1974), and Blake's Newton (1972). He has written critical essays and radio plays, and translated the work of notable Brazilian, French, and Russian writers. Palmer has also collaborated with visual artists and choreographers to produce multidisciplinary works. Michael Palmer has been awarded grants from the National Endowment for the Arts and the Guggenheim Foundation; in 2001 he received the Shelley Memorial Award from the Poetry Society of America. He is a chancellor of The Academy of American Poets. For information about Michael Palmer and to read examples of his work visit: http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/palmer/online.htm http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?45442B7C000C0F0C http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/palmer/palmer.htm http://www.bostonreview.net/BR26.2/zawacki.html http://www.smith.edu/poetrycenter/bios.php?name=mpalmer To receive e-mail announcements about literary events at Yale University, subscribe to the Yale-Readings Listserv, sponsored by the Yale Collection of American Literature, by visiting http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/yale-readings. Nancy Kuhl Assistant Curator, The Yale Collection of American Literature The Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library Yale University 121 Wall Street P.O. Box 208240 New Haven, CT 06520-8240 Phone: 203.432.2966 Fax: 203.432.4047 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:35:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: talking poltics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable for some reason since the debacle I find it easier to speak about = politics with people who have voted for Bush.=20 I can easily express my anger with/ at them, and at the same time find a = language to communicate=20 to them about why I feel they have made a mistake. And what is at stake. = They are not sensitive to an intellectual=20 argument. Not that they are not intellectual but rather they would like = to sense "compassion" and directness=20 in my argument and perspective. They are not interested in theory or = social science. This is my experience=20 as I crawl out of my hole Cautiously, crawling.... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:48:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Murray, Christine" Subject: Poetry_Heat Roundtable: Small Press Publishing--3 pm Friday Nov 5, University of Texas at Arlington MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Poetry_Heat Roundtable:=20 Small Press & Independent Publishing* =20 ___Friday, November 5, 2004___ =20 * =20 ___Hoa Nguyen and Dale Smith___=20 Skanky Possum Press (Austin), publishers of Skanky Possum Journal=20 & authors Kent Johnson,=20 Randy Prus, Kristen Prevallet,=20 Tom Clark and Anne Waldman,=20 Sotere Torregian =20 * ___Mark Weiss___ Junction Press (San Diego and NYC),=20 publisher of authors Stephen Vincent, Rochelle Owen,=20 Armand Schwerner, Susie Mee, Mervyn Taylor,=20 Richard Elman =20 * =20 ___3:00 pm, at The Writing Center, 412 Central Library, University of = Texas at Arlington___ =20 * =20 *Hope to see you there! * =20 * =20 ___This event is sponsored by the UTA Writing Center in conjunction with = the Poetry_Heat Reading Series, under direction of Chris Murray.___ =20 =20 Best Wishes,=20 =20 chris murray http://texfiles.blogspot.com http://e-po.blogspot.com http://uta.edu/english/znine ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:55:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Woke up nauseous this morning - a loss of equilibrium - wobbling about ("passive" indeed). Realized - at least what felt like what was going on - was something akin to another version of 9-11. This time around, however, feels like a massive attack on the twin-towers of the country's imagination - including everything of value to so many of us who have variously fought against the war in Viet-Nam, for the environment, civil rights (women, ethnic, gay), working conditions - and each of us who have committed our lives to making and presenting poetry and art in multiple ways. Not to suggest that any of this has led to some utopia, but a highly charge ground has been defined in which all the various arguments have a place in the national debate. The election does not eliminate that ground - nor all the energy and organization that went into the fight. And I don't think we're jumping out of buildings or in ashes. Instead of suicides in planes, however, the perpetrators are fully in power, "mandated", etc. and do feel entitled to redefine and limit the ground upon which we all live. This - working our way through it - is going to take real work and smarts. I think we do have a few more days on the gurney - before getting recharged. Passive,yes, for the moment. But, heah, most trees survive major storms and/or get reborn through their seeds from devastating fires. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > aldon, i think i did the former... but since i'm sure we think alike > about this, i may well have done the latter... > > in any case i think louis menand's piece in ~the new yorker~ a while > back (30 aug.), "how voters make their choices," gets at least at the > sad realities of voting in the u.s. (and what ABOUT that 40% that > didn't vote?)... i'm all for getting at these realities, but don't > believe we'll turn the current ideological-political situation around > anytime soon, and certainly not in the absence of substantive changes > not only tactically, but imaginatively (i.e., in the way we believe > our beliefs, our social fictions and convictions)... even if bush > melts down in his second term---and many second terms do melt > down---the damage he and his crew will effect meanwhile will be with > us for years to come, i would say (and most directly, we can thank > reagan for this)... > > best, > > joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:21:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: The Manchurian Candidate/ finding it hard to write poetry today In-Reply-To: <20041104160751.JSXR2429.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Feeling very depressed yesterday afternoon -- in shock, really -- I attended a screening of the original Manchurian Candidate at our beautiful Castro Theater. I happened to run into local filmmaker konrad steiner who had come for similar reasons, and we sat together, laughing in the dark at the dark humor of the brilliant script. I was struck in particular by how incredibly bleak the film is, something that does not translate on video but comes across in huge fugue-like tones on the silver screen; konrad pointed out that the lack of a soundtrack forces that bleakness into the foreground. The climactic scene -- when the foppish, McCarthyesque Senator Iceland is about to swoop in for his Kodak moment at the RNC -- was filmed in Madison Square Garden. I couldn't help remembering that Bush accepted his party's nomination there just a couple months ago. Part of the reason I went to the film is that I miss guys like Frank Sinatra, at least the character he played in this film. Someone who's strong but connects with people on an emotional level and is on the side of good. The anti-Bush. Reading Vernon's comment "over time writing can change human sensibilities" I think also of Woody Guthrie in this vein. The thought of him barnstorming the country performing for unions and workers and the poor reminds me of a time when "our side" did connect with those people on a strong, emotional level. We've lost that edge; now the working poor coming into this country have roots in the same dubious "values" to which Karl Rove so presciently appealed. I don't have the answer to this, except to say that there's a tough row to hoe ahead. Maybe the next heroes and heroines are already among us, getting ready to do some good, and if so, Godspeed. DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernon Frazer Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:08 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today Joel Yes, it is a time for making poems. I'm bummed out because of the election results, but because of them I've committed myself to writing because over time writing can change human sensibilities; right now it doesn't look possible to change anything social or political for the better in this country. So I hope to play old Walt till Bush returns to his ranch in Kennebunkport. Best, Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:34 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Fw: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today Janine: I know this feeling. But art keeps the humanistic flame burning through the darkness of tyrannical times. It's an underground fire, a joyful smoldering. The Bushes of history come and go, while Whitman remains singing. If anything, this is a time for making poems. -Joel > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janine DeBaise" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:26 AM > Subject: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today > > > > "Sometimes panic would spike up deep within me -- electrical charges > of fear registering off the scale -- and I would want to abandon all art and spend all my time in advocacy. I still believed in art but art seemed utterly extravagant in the face of what was happening. If your home were burning, for instance, would you grab a bucket of water to pour on it, or would you step back and write a poem about it?" > > Rick Bass in the Book of Yaak ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:33:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today In-Reply-To: <20041104160751.JSXR2429.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On a slightly separate note [to my previous post, but also in response to this], I've been wondering for a long time just how effective poetry can be, at least as it's practiced today. Spicer's "nobody listens to poetry" has never been more true, and that's due at least as much to the failure of our culture as it is to poetry's failure to hold the culture's attention -- at least it seems so to me. The background is lost, even among most poets I know. How many of us can legitimately say that we have a stronger grasp of poetry -- I'm talking large chunks of ancient and modern verse committed so deeply to memory that it is "part of our gesture and blood" -- than we do of popular film and/or music. Not me. Almost everyone can quote you song lyrics or lines from their favorite films, but not many (outside of those in theater) can give long sections of Shakespeare. In a sense, the rarity of poetry has made it all the more valuable when encountered in public space. But is it effective? Maybe "over time"? I'm sincerely asking this. Even Keats wondered if it was nothing but a "jack o lantern" throwing pretty images at the imagination. This is part of the reason I've spent the last year learning to play guitar. Well there is much to say about this and I look forward to other thoughts. but back to work... DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernon Frazer Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:08 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today Joel Yes, it is a time for making poems. I'm bummed out because of the election results, but because of them I've committed myself to writing because over time writing can change human sensibilities; right now it doesn't look possible to change anything social or political for the better in this country. So I hope to play old Walt till Bush returns to his ranch in Kennebunkport. Best, Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:34 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Fw: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today Janine: I know this feeling. But art keeps the humanistic flame burning through the darkness of tyrannical times. It's an underground fire, a joyful smoldering. The Bushes of history come and go, while Whitman remains singing. If anything, this is a time for making poems. -Joel > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janine DeBaise" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:26 AM > Subject: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today > > > > "Sometimes panic would spike up deep within me -- electrical charges > of fear registering off the scale -- and I would want to abandon all art and spend all my time in advocacy. I still believed in art but art seemed utterly extravagant in the face of what was happening. If your home were burning, for instance, would you grab a bucket of water to pour on it, or would you step back and write a poem about it?" > > Rick Bass in the Book of Yaak ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:29:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Ishmael Reed & Gary Bartz (Nov. 6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Searing alto saxophonist Gary Bartz will team up with the renowned writer and iconoclast Ishmael Reed in a "Poetry for Peace" performance on Saturday Nov. 6 from 8 p.m. at on the Boards/the Behnke Center for Contemporary Performances in Seattle as part of the Earshot Jazz Festival. Ishmael Reed, one of the most original and controversial African American literary figures, will read his own works and the peace poetry of Japanese Buddhist philosopher Daisaku Ikeda in what promises to be a powerful collaboration between music and performed poetry. As Reed says, "When the politicians and the intellectual or academic leaders fail, then the poets have to step in. Plato and other people were frightened of the poets because they say what's on their mind. They speak from the soul." Seattle arts writer Bill White has selected the event as one of his top five "picks" of the festival, which brings together top musicians from around the world for a marathon celebration of more than 55 events over a three-week period. Bartz is known for his focused passion and lyricism, from his early work with Charles Mingus, Max Roach, Art Blakey and Miles Davis's fusion band, to his own blend of jazz, soul, African rhythms and funk. Gene Kalbacher of Hot House jazz magazine has called him "arguably the most soulfully expressive altoist on the scene." Also known for his strong political convictions, Bartz has long appreciated the synergy between jazz and poetry. His acclaimed 1973 album "I've Known Rivers" was based on the poetry of Langston Hughes. His quartet on Saturday features Barney McCall on piano and keyboards, James King on bass and Greg Bandy on drums. Reed will be reciting poetry from Fighting for Peace by Japanese Buddhist philosopher and peacebuilder, Daisaku Ikeda. In the book's foreword Reed comments: "One doesn't have to be a follower of the Buddhist religion to appreciate the universal appeal of Fighting for Peace... (Ikeda) speaks for millions of people who have become frustrated with the lethal shenanigans of the world's politicians..." Ikeda is the president of the Soka Gakkai International, a lay Buddhist association dedicated to peace, education and cultural exchange, and has been named poet laureate by the World Academy of Arts and Culture. For further information about the event, go to http://www.earshot.org/fest2004/concerts.asp. For further information on Fighting for Peace, published by Dunhill Publishing, go to http://www.poetry4peace.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:31:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Michael Rothenberg & James Koller (today) + Michael with David Meltzer (Nov 16) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Rothenberg & James Koller will be reading from their works today at 4:30 p.m. Thursday Nov. 4, at The Poetry Center, San Francisco State University. Born in Miami Beach, Florida in 1951, Michael Rothenberg is a poet and songwriter. He has been an active environmentalist in the San Francisco Bay Area for the past 25 years, where he cultivates orchids and bromeliads at his nursery, Shelldance in Pacifica. Rothenberg's books of poems include Favorite Songs, Nightmare of the Violins (Twowindows Press), What The Fish Saw, Man/Women (w/ Joanne Kyger), The Paris Journals (Fish Drum), and Grown Up Cuba (Il Begatto Press, Amsterdam), and most recently Unhurried Vision (La Alameda/University of New Mexico Press). He is also author of the novel Punk Rockwell (Tropical Press). Other editorial projects include Overtime, Selected Poems by Philip Whalen (Penguin Putnam, Inc., 2002), and As Ever, Selected Poems by Joanne Kyger (Penguin Books, 2002). He is presently working on David's Copy, Selected Poems of David Meltzer (Penguin, 2004), and the selected poems of Ed Dorn (Penguin, 2006). His songs have appeared in the films Shadowhunter, Black Day Blue Night and Outside Ozona. He is also editor and co-founder of Big Bridge Press and Big Bridge, www.bigbridge.org, an online magazine. Poet James Koller has also published three novels and numerous essays. His writing has been translated into Italian, French, German, Dutch and Swedish, and he has translated the work of others from French into English. He began performing in the US in 1959, & continues since the late '70s to appear widely in western Europe. He and the late Franco Beltrametti performed their Graffiti Lyriques, which incorporated painting, reading and music, from Bologna to Stockholm 1987-89, and in the United States, where the two began making cross-country tours in 1977. Since 1989 Koller has also toured the United States and Europe and recorded with American musician/songwriter Karl Bruder. In 2003 he toured the US with German poet Stefan Hyner. Editor of Coyote's Journal & Coyote Books since 1964, Koller edited the book review Otherwise 1994-97. He explored "context in writing" in a course on the Icelandic sagas he taught with Stefan Hyner & Reidar Ekner in B i Telemark, Norway, 2001. He remains active as well as an artist and photographer. Born in Illinois, Koller spent his first thirty-six years in the American midwest and west. In 1972 he moved to Maine. He is married & the father of six. Nov. 16: City Lights Book Store, San Francisco. Michael Rothenberg and David Meltzer read from their new books from La Alameda / University New Mexico "Unhurried Vision" by Michael Rothenberg Underneath the art of poetry exists the tradition of the journal - the attempt to capture and reveal the world as it passes by. Observations, reflections, and ideas accumulate to form connections and reveal process, content and story. Unhurried Vision is a record of the year 1999, and continues Michael Rothenberg's experiment with the journal. This is the year Philip Whalen became terminally ill and Rothenberg began taking care of him, pulled together Whalen's archives and library and edited his book of selected poems, Overtime. Political, personal, and romantic, Unhurried Vision works to savor the impermanent, looking at the moments in a poet's life, contemplating the body of experience. It is the mind on a quiet stroll through longing, loss and beauty. During the late 1950s, David Meltzer was an active poet in the San Francisco North Beach scene often reading with jazz musicians at various bars and coffeehouses. Beat Thing is part poetry and part expos, both tribute to the down in the street wildness and rant against the romantic commodification which surrounds the Beat Generation. Invoking real people as real history, Meltzer takes aim at the fantasy which Beat has become and juxtaposes simultaneously its still-needed legacy. He brings forth the original spirit of Beat in a encyclopedic cascade of details whose dense, deep, fierce, funny, raucous, free-associative jazz energy infuses every line. This is a grizzled hipster vision looking back at a period where the beast of war from Auschwitz to H-bomb to Joe McCarthy prevailed side-by-side with a cultural complacency while a wide-ranging constellation of writers and artists refused its numbing protocol. Beat Thing rises up as an ecstatic chant of defiance and celebration. David Meltzer is the author of many volumes of poetry, including The Clown (Semina, 1960), The Process (Oyez, l965), Yesod (Trigram, l969), Arrows: Selected Poetry, 1957-1992 (Black Sparrow Press, 1994), and No Eyes: Lester Young (Black Sparrow, 2000). He has also published fiction, including The Agency Trilogy (Brandon House, l968; reprinted by Richard Kasak, 1994), Orf (Brandon House, l969; reprinted by Masquerade Books, l995), Under (Rhinoceros Books, 1997), and book-length essays, including Two-Way Mirror: A Poetry Notebook (Oyez, 1977). He has edited numerous anthologies and collections of interviews, including The Secret Garden: An Anthology in the Kabbalah (Continuum Press, 1976; reprinted, Station Hill Press, 1998), Birth: Anthology of Ancients Texts, Songs, Prayers, and Stories (North Point Press, 1981), Death: Anthology of Texts, Songs, Charms, Prayers, and Tales (North Point Press, 1984), Reading Jazz (Mercury House, 1996), Writing Jazz (Mercury House, 1999), and San Francisco Beat: Talking With the Poets (City Lights, 2001). His musical recordings include Serpent Power (Vanguard Records, l968; reissued on CD in 1996) and Poet Song (Vanguard Records, l969). He teaches in the Humanities and graduate Poetics programs at the New College of California. He lives in the Bay Area. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:40:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: And now, back to the real world... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...what? Why are you laughing? Of course www.unlikelystories.org is the = real world. And with the first November update, we treat you to: an excerpt from a Quest among the Bewildered by religion founder, Wulf = Zendik an excerpt from The Rucksack Letters in which Steve McAllister visits = Zendik Farm an interview with South African artist Thokozani Mthiyane by Aryan = Kaganof A Sardine on Vacation, episode 21 a novella by Zachary Burks short fiction by Andrew Lundwall, Ron Spurga, Rob Rosen, Bruce Taylor = and the barely mysterious Kurtice Kucheman poetry by Marie Kazalia, Lyn Lifshin, Scott Malby, Steve Dalachinsky, = Martha L. Deed, Joseph Veronneau, Dan Schneider, DB Cox, and David = Christian Stanfield Coming soon: total anarchy! -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:37:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 11/8-11/10 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable November 8, Monday Just the Thing: Selected Letters of James Schuyler A reading to celebrate the publication of James Schuyler=B9s selected letters= , edited by William Corbett and published by Turtle Point Press. James Schuyler, recipient of the 1981 Pulitzer Prize in Poetry for The Morning of the Poem, is the first of the first generation of New York School poets to have his letters published. Schuyler=B9s letters are, in Paul Auster=B9s words, the =B3perfect companion=B2 to his poems, and ably convey his great sense of humor, lively and original opinions, his ear for gossip and easy ability to invent memorable phrases. William Corbett=B9s selection includes roughly a third of the Schuyler letters currently available, including numerous letters to his great correspondents John Ashbery and Joe Brainard, and to Fairfield Porter, Frank O=B9Hara, John Button, Barbara Guest, Harry Mathews, Ron Padgett, Kenward Elmslie, Anne Dunn, Darragh Park, and a who=B9s-who of poets and artists central to the downtown New York art scene from the early 1950s until Schuyler=B9s death in 1991. Tonight=B9s readers will include John Ashbery, Arden Corbett, Robert Dash, Anne Dunn, Larry Fagin, Nathan Kernan, Carl Little, Eileen Myles, Charles North, Simon Pettet and Anne Waldman. [8:00 pm] November 10, Wednesday Alice Notley & Prageeta Sharma Alice Notley is the author of Disobedience among many others. Coming After, a book of essays on the =B3second-generation New York School poets,=B2 is due out from the University of Michigan Press next spring. Also, a new selected poems will be published by Wesleyan in 2006. With her sons, Anselm and Edmund Berrigan, Notley has recently edited The Collected Poems of Ted Berrigan, to be published by the University of California Press in the fall of 2005. Notley lives and writes in Paris. Prageeta Sharma is the author of Bliss to Fill and The Opening Question, and currently teaches at New School University and Goddard College. She lives in Brooklyn and coordinates the Talk Series here at the Poetry Project. [8:00 pm] ALSO NOTE: The BBR Reading Series: =20 FEATURING =20 Chris Martin & =20 Stacy Szymaszek =20 Tuesday, Nov. 9, 8pm =20 ($4 to benefit the poets) =20 Bar Reis =20 375 5th Avenue (btwn. 5th & 6th Streets) BROOKLYN 718-832-5716 =20 (F train to 4th and 9th) Ray Lives! A Celebration of Ray Charles' Life and Music =20 Panel discussion with writers and colleagues of Ray Charles. =20 Plus never-before-seen film of Ray recording and musical guests =20 Host: Michael Lydon, author of Ray Charles: Man and Music, the definitive biography of the Genius, just published by Routledge in an updated, commemorative edition. =20 Speakers to include: Margo Jefferson, New York Times cultural critic; Peter Guralnick, biographer of Elvis Presley and upcoming biographer of Sam Cooke= ; and Steve Turre, trombonist who played with Ray for years. =20 =20 Thursday November 11, 6 pm St Mark=B9s Church in-the-Bowery 2nd Avenue and 10th Street For more information: 212-216-7844 Suggested Contribution $8 (subway: Union Square or Astor Place on the 4, 5, and 6; 8th Street on the R, N, and W) =20 Routledge Publishing: contact Kate Hanzalik Katherine.Hanzalik@taylorandfrancis.com The FALL CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:14:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "C.D." Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today In-Reply-To: <20041104142117.GA55882@mail15b.boca15-verio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I never find it hard to write poetry, I do find it hard to read it. I think it has to dowith doing it so much, either in my head or in practice, and then everyday life has a way of being (or becoming) a big poem, and then there are fake pomes, or the fake poems of usual life. I think SPicer;s comment is sort of permanent but limited in a permanent way. in fact you could say the opposite that everyone listens to poetry today more than ever... I suppose in the end it does not matter, what matters is doing it. http://fictionsofdeleuzeandguattari.blogspot.com/ David Hadbawnik wrote: On a slightly separate note [to my previous post, but also in response to this], I've been wondering for a long time just how effective poetry can be, at least as it's practiced today. Spicer's "nobody listens to poetry" has never been more true, and that's due at least as much to the failure of our culture as it is to poetry's failure to hold the culture's attention -- at least it seems so to me. The background is lost, even among most poets I know. How many of us can legitimately say that we have a stronger grasp of poetry -- I'm talking large chunks of ancient and modern verse committed so deeply to memory that it is "part of our gesture and blood" -- than we do of popular film and/or music. Not me. Almost everyone can quote you song lyrics or lines from their favorite films, but not many (outside of those in theater) can give long sections of Shakespeare. In a sense, the rarity of poetry has made it all the more valuable when encountered in public space. But is it effective? Maybe "over time"? I'm sincerely asking this. Even Keats wondered if it was nothing but a "jack o lantern" throwing pretty images at the imagination. This is part of the reason I've spent the last year learning to play guitar. Well there is much to say about this and I look forward to other thoughts. but back to work... DH Ph.d. candidate Department of English Studies U de Montreal. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 the act of writing is a political move and politically motivated.=20 i'm not at all moved by the solemnity's regurgitation. we do all we can do. we've done all we can do. if more than half the country has its asses pulled by the puppet, because t= hey can't think for themselves, perhaps it is time to re-evaluate just what= we're doing. activism on a global scale CANNOT WORK. it's an illusion of solidarity. wha= t schmuck in bolivia or in italy is going to help us liberate ourselves? it= 's an illusion. perhaps we should listen to john cage (and i am paraphrasing): perhaps it i= s time to leave behind the idea of activism and start acting individually t= owards a collective goal i.e. a change of lifestyle is more potent politica= lly than an action in the streets.=20 think: one million people giving up, say, their car... instead of one milli= on people driving to nyc to protest the oily regime. one million less cars on the road? ten million gallons less of gasoline sal= es? the right will remain strong only because folks say "no more war" or "no mo= re bush" they can't remain strong if we decide to say fuck off we don't need your pr= oduct. lifestyle changes change the world. a protest-the illusion-is a canvas for = those in power to paint their power more vivid. consumer culture-not moral majority-is the threat. if we want to continue aborting babies in favor of women's rights, then pre= pare to eat that baby-mere recycling. is that the kind of humor we want? wheat grass, not hash. --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:30:18 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Votescam 2004? Comments: To: ImitaPo Memebers , Luke@AlloraConsulting.com, fiendz@fiendz.org, Steve Smith , Ari , Dave Marion , Gigi Lefevre , yahsure@earthlink.net, weighed@earthlink.com, tmcenelly@hotmail.com, Janet Adams Herron , harri054@umn.edu, "Ethan Clauset (Ethan Clauset)" , Giles Hendrix , christopher.w.knouff@gsk.com, Alex Verhoeven , Fred Stutzman In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With 40 million actual votes unverifiable due to electronic voting with no paper trail, the 2004 presidential election is quite possibly a load of bullshit. Yes, 40 million of the total votes were from e-vote machines. You can see the spread of electronic voting here: http://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/index.php?topic_string=3D5estd. And = in your backyard: http://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/map.php?&topic_string=3D5estd&state=3D= Nor th%20Carolina. Sounds like a predictable response from me, I know. Slate has already dismissed my argument as "conspiracy-minded." You know me, I'm so predictable. We *reasonable* people all know there's no such thing as a conspiracy. Right? But bear with me. And ask yourself, am I really being irrational? I fully realize I sound loony by merely suggesting any wrongdoing. But is my skepticism truly groundless? =20 The results in Florida weren't close as we all know. That gap (52% to 47% in favor of Bush) we are told is supposed to suggest there was not a sufficient amount of wrongdoing there to swing the election. I cannot help but wonder, however, about the validity of those results when 50% of votes passed through e-vote machines in that state. 50% of the Florida vote is completely unverifiable and run completely by Republican partisan interests who benefit from trade law protections. 50% of the votes might as well be imaginary votes. Ohio had unverifiable e-voting in a sufficient number of precincts representing a sufficient number of votes to change the outcome. OK I'm speculating it seems, but do I have any evidence to even make such a suggestion? The first piece of evidence is prior probability. We know that there have been massive problems with the machines. We have a paper trail of documented problems. Those problems have been demonstrated over and over and over again, but the courts won't have any of it. The prior probability shows a fix is likely. =20 For example, we saw massive problems and wrongdoings by the Bushies in Florida in 2000, and that wrongdoing ultimately decided the election. Another example--the Republican candidate for Georgia's governorship won the 2002 election when polls indicated that his Democratic opponent was likely to beat him by a margin of 9 to 11 points. In the same year, a Republican candidate for Senator defeated his Democratic opponent, even though the Dem was expected to win by a 2 to 5 point margin. The combination of these two results are, statistically speaking, astronomically unlikely. In 2002, Georgia became the first state in the U.S. to use computerized touch-screen voting machines in all of its election districts. Georgia's votes were not counted by state election officials but were instead counted by employees of the corporation that manufactured and programmed the computerized voting machines. Those machines produced no paper voting records or any other means to verify the vote. What happened in Georgia was not unique to the 2002 elections. Colorado, Minnesota, Illinois, and New Hampshire also experienced unusual last-minute swings in some of their election districts, but only in the ones that used electronic voting machines. Interestingly, those sudden and unexpected swings only occurred in hotly contested districts, and in each case, the underdog who won was a Republican. Sequoia Voting Systems software was discovered by hackers and found to be full of vulnerabilities. Those of you who are savvy enough can have a look at the code here: http://astro.ocis.temple.edu/~tarantul/WinEDS200.zip The second piece of evidence is the combination of bias & motive. CEOs, founders and owners of Diebold and ES&S are either big shot Republican fundraisers (Diebold) or Republican Senators who have already won suspect elections from their very own machines (Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Nebraska). In August, 2003, Diebold CEO Walden O'Dell wrote a letter to Ohio Republicans in which he said he was "committed to helping Ohio to deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." He wrote this letter at the very time Diebold was bidding for a contract to sell its voting machines to the state of Ohio. What=92s more, even after O'Dell's letter was exposed to the public, Ohio's Secretary of State, Ken Blackwell--who happens to be a Republican & who also attempted to deny delivery of provisional ballots across Ohio--had the audacity to put Diebold on Ohio's list of preferred voting machine vendors. Diebold's machines were used in Ohio's presidential election Tuesday. Chuck Hagel, the head of ES&S, sold his company's voting machines to the state of Nebraska. Shortly after that he became Nebraska's first Republican Senator in 24 years. Eighty percent of Hagel's votes were counted by ES&S employees in complete corporate secrecy. =20 The third piece of evidence: the exit poll results in Florida. The biggest problem is precision, something that cannot be verified. We can only look to exit polls to see if the election outcome was reasonable. In Ohio the exit polls were not inconsistent with the final tally, yet in Florida the outcome was HIGHLY unlikely given their exit polls. (http://synapse.princeton.edu/~sam/poll-discrepancy-z-scores.jpg) Without a paper trail, a recount cannot be conducted. If official Florida results showed a close race, a recount would have been a legal nightmare that would have eclipsed what happened in 2000. *The bigger the lie, the more people believe.* The margin in Florida was too great for a recount. Was this a matter of convenience? The fourth piece of evidence: the demographics of increased voter turnout. Typically in a presidential election, lefty voters show a greater increase in turnout than Republican It's as if, in this election, the majority of anti-Bush newly turned-out voters across the nation voted for Bush. Hmm. This is a piece of evidence, admittedly, that has yet to materialize. The massive increase in voter registrations since 2000 were primarily Democrat, but Rove & Co. built an impressive 72-hour get-out-the-Bush-vote grassroots campaign, designed to contact all unlikely Republican voters three times in 72 hours, one interpersonal. In the coming says we should be able to get the statistics, however, and know whether there is something here in the increased turnout. =20 Finally, there is no evidence to the contrary, that electronic voting was not biased. There is no way that contrary evidence can be demonstrated. In fact, it's illegal to demonstrate such validity. 40 million electronic votes. Poof. Just like that. Out comes a president. Let's face it. We know the Republicans represent a kleptocracy. We know they are willing to lie and deceive 24-7 in order to steal more. We know they are looting the wealthiest nation in history. We know. We know. Ask yourself: especially given the slightest of evidence, do you put this past them? This election was in the bag for Kerry with a major underestimation of turnout. And when we see things like this (http://tinyurl.com/3t3cr) you just have to wonder.... Coups typically use the power of the existing government for its own takeover. As renowned economist, historian, and leading military strategy consultant Edward Luttwak remarks in his book _Coup d'=E9tat: A practical handbook_, a book translated into 14 languages: "A coup consists of the infiltration of a small but critical segment of the state apparatus, which is then used to displace the government from its control of the remainder." Use of military or other organized force is not the defining feature of a coup d'=E9tat. Any seizure of the state apparatus by extra-legal tactics may be considered a coup, according to Luttwak. Ultimately few in the government are fighting for your right to vote. Edwards reportedly encouraged Kerry to continue to count in Ohio, but Kerry opted for "unity." We can be sure Bush will not go centrist on us. Meanwhile, the media proliferate their claims that e-voting was a success--because, they say, no widespread problems were reported. Without a trail, what's there to report? We on the left, we were gutless Tuesday night when things looked bad. We stopped watching and gave up hope well before Ohio was settled. We gave up, citing that America is on the whole homophobic, misogynist, stupid. Many of us are now wringing our hands, citing secession or leaving the country altogether. A lot of America is stupid, homophobic, misogynist, but the election in no way proves the majority is. 40 million votes. Vaporware.=20 Alas, there is absolutely nothing we can do to change this election. Nothing. We can't go back and count those votes--they are not there to be counted. Gone. Our legislature has failed to protect us, because we have failed to insist on it. So we can't do much now. It's too late. But what can we do about the next election? Based on this election, we can anticipate that the fight to force states to make sure a paper trail is created from electronic voting machines will fade. But that fight must continue. So yeah, my entire argument could be wrong, but doesn't it make you wonder just a little bit? We don't have the 40 million votes needed to ultimately substantiate or reject my argument. That should make you very nervous, very concerned. Be rest assured, no one can be sure that Bush has the mandate of the masses. The sound of confidence in such a claim is nothing but noise. Fear not. So don=92t give up on America. Protect your right to vote. You can = fight for election paper trails, and fight for validation of electronic voting regardless of the margin of outcome between candidates. You can start by fighting for H.R.2239 and S.1980, stalled bills which would amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 by requiring a voter-verified permanent record or hardcopy of all electronic votes. You can also educate yourself about the problems of electronic voting and educate others. Or if you've the stomach for it, you can also practice civil disobedience: find those electronic machines, drag 'em out, pull 'em apart, and find out how they work. Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . .=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:32:58 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "No one listens to poetry" and "No / One listens to poetry" L ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "David Hadbawnik" To: Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today > On a slightly separate note [to my previous post, > but also in response to this], I've been wondering > for a long time just how effective poetry can be, > at least as it's practiced today. Spicer's "nobody > listens to poetry" has never been more true, and > that's due at least as much to the failure of our > culture as it is to poetry's failure to hold the > culture's attention -- at least it seems so to me. > The background is lost, even among most poets I > know. How many of us can legitimately say that we > have a stronger grasp of poetry -- I'm talking > large chunks of ancient and modern verse committed > so deeply to memory that it is "part of our > gesture and blood" -- than we do of popular film > and/or music. Not me. Almost everyone can quote > you song lyrics or lines from their favorite > films, but not many (outside of those in theater) > can give long sections of Shakespeare. >=20 > In a sense, the rarity of poetry has made it all > the more valuable when encountered in public > space. But is it effective? Maybe "over time"? I'm > sincerely asking this. Even Keats wondered if it > was nothing but a "jack o lantern" throwing pretty > images at the imagination. This is part of the > reason I've spent the last year learning to play > guitar. Well there is much to say about this and I > look forward to other thoughts. but back to > work... >=20 > DH >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of > Vernon Frazer > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:08 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write > poetry today >=20 > Joel >=20 > Yes, it is a time for making poems. I'm bummed out > because of the election results, but because of > them I've committed myself to writing because over > time writing can change human sensibilities; right > now it doesn't look possible to change anything > social or political for the better in this > country. So I hope to play old Walt till Bush > returns to his ranch in Kennebunkport. >=20 > Best, >=20 > Vernon > http://vernonfrazer.com >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of > Joel Weishaus > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:34 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Fw: [asle] finding it hard to write > poetry today >=20 > Janine: >=20 > I know this feeling. But art keeps the humanistic > flame burning through the darkness of tyrannical > times. It's an underground fire, a joyful > smoldering. > The Bushes of history come and go, while Whitman > remains singing. If anything, this is a time for > making poems. >=20 > -Joel >=20 >=20 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Janine DeBaise" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:26 AM > > Subject: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry > today > > > > > > > > "Sometimes panic would spike up deep within me > -- electrical charges > > of > fear registering off the scale -- and I would want > to abandon all art and spend all my time in > advocacy. I still believed in art but art seemed > utterly extravagant in the face of what was > happening. If your home were burning, for > instance, would you grab a bucket of water to pour > on it, or would you step back and write a poem > about it?" > > > > Rick Bass in the Book of Yaak >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:13:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pamela Lu Subject: Re: passive moralists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aaron, et al, I agree. Of course politics cannot be reduced down to linguistic/philosophical analyses. We're dealing with real, i.e. = material, issues here, real lives, real jobs, real freedoms are at stake here. = That's why the outlook of another 4 years, what with the possibility of up to 4 Supreme Court appointments coming up for grabs, makes me very very = afraid. I too feel bitter about this entrenched corporatized two-party system, = where only millionaires can afford to run for office, where third-party = candidates are barred from the nationally televised debates. That needs to change. = I feel some rancor too about Nadar not sticking with the Green party this = time around, I mean, if we want to promote a multi-party system we at least = need to start developing loyalty to our third parties, don't we? In 2000 the Greens looked like they were going to be a really viable organized party beyond the Dems and the Repubs, especially on the national scale with = Nadar's high profile. Now it looks like a lot of people were just attracted to = Nadar as an individual candidate, and not so much to the Green party platform. I still have high hopes that the Greens will continue to gain political power, starting from the grassroots level on up. We need more Green (and other minority party) members on school boards, city councils, boards of supervisors, as mayors, state legislators, governors, and then...? At the same time, for fear of fragmenting the Left, I wish some of the = Repub party base would split off and form a conservative third party that = fragments the Right. Besides the anti-govt. conservative liberatarians, we could = have the ultra-Christian theocrats jumping ship and draining the vote. Well, = at least I can fantasize about this. That would only be a likely scenario = if John McCain somehow started calling all the shots in the Repub party... Back to the language thing. If you read Lakoff carefully, his is *not* a facile ivory tower argument. He outlines how the neocon movement has = poured millions of dollars during the 40 odd years since Goldwater into = conservative think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute, and into = conservative network funds that seek to attract and retain bright young conservatives = and help them into key positions of power in the academy and the media = industry. Sound like a conspiracy? Well, it was just smart organizing. As a = result, the conservatives managed to build a coalition out of what was once a = splintered Repub party base. Lakoff's point is that the conservatives worded their platform points = into a successful rhetoric that strongly won over the Christian evangelical = base, which as group may not actually be wealthy and may in fact be voting = against their own economic self-interest by supporting tax breaks for the rich. = The logical argument here takes a back seat to the emotional appeal to = "moral values" or whatever you want to call it, but this is not to say the = people are just empty droids ready to absorb whatever their leaders tell them. = They absorb these ideas, these rhetorical calls on behalf of "morality", = because these ideas actually do resonate with some emotional core of familiarity = and personal conviction. Lakoff's theory is that this conviction is not only = a religious one, but a deep-seated values-based one, which speaks to fundamental differences between how conservatives and liberals view the world, view human nature, and the roles/responsibilities of humans in = the world. Lakoff's appeal to liberals is that they take this moral values issue, = and the emotions it registers in voters, seriously, because it could be the = key to what makes swing voters swing in the first place. In a lot of ways I subscribe to his argument because I subscribe to the idea that election campaigns are more and more about turning over this percentage of swing voters, because that's the pivotal factor. So campaigns have to be = fought on several fronts at once: 1) Mobilize the loyal party base, get them = interested in volunteering, spreading the word; 2) Win the national debate on = issues, outlining the many reasons why the Dem platform is better for people, = social justice, the environment, and the nation in general; AND 3) Turn over = enough swing voters by appealing to their sense of deep-seated values, *not* = their conservative-based values but their *liberal-based* values, because the = idea is that the swing voter (what I guess I'm calling the "passive" voter) = has *both* sets of values, liberal and conservative, in their personal = makeup. This third front is where campaign language becomes very very important. Anyhow, this is a topic to think about for the long term, for the = long-term future of the liberal coalition and the country in general. In a way I = just want to put in plug in there for Lakoff because I feel he's really done = his homework and is really on to something in my opinion. A assorted handful of cents: On the reds and the blues-- I just want to affirm Chris Stroffolino's = post about the alienation between the red and blue states, and about how us = blue types can't just take the I'm-above-it-all elite city slicker stance = forever against the red yokels and expect things to change. We have to take the = other side seriously, learn how the enemy thinks the way it does and why. In response to the 11 anti-gay initiatives that passed across the states, I predict that gay producer moguls in Hollywood will start coming out with sentimental Hallmark-style melodramas about the travails of mainstream = gay couples and their children -- instead of Will & Grace bouncing around = the gay ghetto, we'll have Willie and Mike on some couch somewhere in a = midwestern suburb or even small town, shopping at the WalMart back-to-school sale = for their adopted, possibly multiracial children, enduring slurs and attacks = and nasty remarks from the conservative town baddies but also getting = supportive hugs, kind words, and friendly go-get-'em punches on the shoulder from open-minded supermarket checkout clerks and Seventh-Heaven-style = progressive social justice pastors. On the next election day, swing voters in red = states, especially the female ones, will gaze at the anti-gay initiative set = before them on the ballot, think back on cinematic memories of what poor sweet Willie had to endure just to have a family life like everyone else, and tearfully punch through the "No" square on the scorecard, leaving it chadless... On passive morality and voting-- I guess when I use the term "passive" = to describe a voter, this is what I mean: I have essentially been a passive voter myself in the past, when it comes to ballot initiatives and propositions. In California we literally have a dozen or more of these propositions to decide on each election. This time round, I was an = "active" actually read my information pamphlet pretty thoroughly beforehand. My partner and I spent a good Saturday reading through all the summaries, = the arguments pro and con, the rebuttals to the arguments pro and con, and = we talked through the ones we felt iffy on. Where I felt iffy on a = proposition, I categorize myself as essentially a "swing voter" on that proposition. = So she and I debated over the iffy ones and sometimes I convinced her to my side, or she convinced me to her side. Sometimes we were left on = opposite sides and our votes cancelled each other out. Sometimes we both = convinced each other to our sides and wound up with diametrically switched = positions from where we started. I actually agonized over a couple of them and = spent election day morning rereading arguments and articles, and switched my position on two propositions minutes before entering the polling booth. = And that was after an "active" approach! Now what would I have done in a "passive" approach? In the past, I would = have blown off the big thick voter info pamphlet with its one or more supplementary bulletins. I would have clipped out a couple of = endorsement pages that *felt socially and ideologically familiar* to me, which in = this case would have been the Dem party grid and the endorsement page of my = local left-leaning muckraking urban weekly. I would have gone down the column = in about 5 minutes matching my votes, where the two endorsement tables = differed I would have deferred to the weekly's. Presto. Done. I would have been a swing voter who had been captured by one or another camp *passively*. On families and counterculture-- Seems to me that even in = countercultural communities that are actively not centered around or even actively = opposed to the conventional biological notion of "family", the relationship = dynamics that get played out are still in fact modelled psychologically after the countercultural individuals' idea or memory of their biological = families. And we have the contemporary urban notion of the "family" or community you = choose versus the one you're afflicted with, as when gay people of my = generation give each other high fives and exclaim "hey, you're family!" We need to expand the term "family" so that it's about emotional support and = security and solidarity, not just biology. On good and evil in the hearts of humanity-- I grew up in a highly = intolerant part of California, so when I was younger I believed that many people = around me had malevolence and hostility in their hearts and were out to get me. = I was right. Some of these people were active in their malevolence, and = some were more passive. It was a continuum of intolerance. As I get older I = have less of this feeling in general. This isn't so much a function of age = but of changing times. When I go back and visit my hometown I find it to be dramatically less intolerant (this is not to say that it's actually *tolerant*!). But things like social attitudes, especially among the = young, have really shifted over the years, and the continuum of intolerance has basically lost a lot of its passive members. This is due in part to some large and widespread changes in social opinion nationwide. And I think = that's why reactionary movements like the Christian Right have such a jarring = impact and appearance -- they stand out, because they are moving against the = social tide that's been progressing ever since the civil rights movement. So I say, get 'em when they're young. Send coalitions of liberal = Christians out to the moderate churches and college campuses to get the young = Christians mobilized to the progressive side, before the Right tries to sweep them = over with manipulative claims of a "populist conservative revolution". = Mobilize the young. Best, Pam ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:21:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: SF Event: Moving Picture Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed hello list, In case you wish to mark calendars, i send this out in advance. The series starts in two weeks, screening many rare films and tapes, including some premieres. Almost all the work is by artists who've spent significant time in the Bay Area, since this is a series in celebration of The Poetry Center's 50-year anniversary, and in conjunction with the exhibit "Poetry and Its Arts" at the California Historical Society, opening December 11th. Moving Picture Poetics: Sampling 50 Years of Poets and Cinema Three Shows Presented by SF Cinematheque and The Poetry Center at SFSU Program 1: MUSINGS Thursday, November 18th, 7:30PM Yerba Buena Center for the Arts "Notes on the Port of St Francis" by Frank Stauffacher (1952) with R.L. Stevenson's text read by Vincent Price "In Between" by Stan Brakhage (1955) Starring: Jess, Robert Duncan (cameo), music: John Cage "Visions of a City" by Lawrence Jordan (1957/78) starring Michael McClure "THE FRONTLET" (from The Maximus Poems) Charles Olson (1968) "Daydream of Darkness" Helen Adam and William McNeill (1963) soundtrack by Kristin Prevallet, Beth Brown AL-Rawi, Lee Ann Brown, Drew Gardner and Nada Gordon Program 2: COUPLINGS Thursday, December 2nd, 7:30PM Yerba Buena Center for the Arts "Plagiarism" by Henry Hills (1981) with Bruce Andrews, Charles Bernstein, James Sherry and Hanna Weiner(1982) "The Last Clean Shirt" by Alfred Leslie & Frank O'Hara (1964) "A Piece" Robert Creeley (1968) "Videoeme"(1976) and "Re Dis Appearing" (1977) by Theresa Hak Kyung Cha "The Blue Tape" Alan Sondheim & Kathy Acker (1974) Program 3: COLLABORATIONS Sunday, December 12th, 7:30PM California College of Arts, Timken Hall "The Menage" Anne Waldman & Ed Bowes with Carl Rakosi's poem (2003) "Descartes" Joanne Kyger (1968) "Dodie Bellamy" Cecilia Dougherty (premiere) "Before the War" Laura Moriarty & Jiri Veskrna (1990, SF premiere) "Delay Series" Konrad Steiner & Leslie Scalapino video (premiere) "Aliengnosis" Robert Gluck & Dean Smith (premiere) "Swamp" by Abigail Child (1991) dialog by Sarah Schulman, starring Carla Harryman, Steve Benson, Susie Bright, Marga Gomez, Kevin Killian, George Kuchar, and others For more description and location information see: http://www.sfcinematheque.org/programs.shtml#266 http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry/ konrad ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:37:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Notes on the election - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the first honest reaction to the election. No excuses, no what one=20 should have done. Religion apparently is the key political power in the glob= al=20 capitalist world. Ironically, the only force countering the power of money a= nd=20 image.=20 I had felt this force writing the Turkish "Eda" anthology. Eda, it seems, is= =20 the poetics of religion as a potent, viable, radical political force. Murat In a message dated 11/04/04 12:55:37 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: > Notes on the election - >=20 > 0. The Republican win was predicted and predictable. Now the infinity > of analysis begins, an infinity that has already missed the point. >=20 > 1. There is nothing the Democrats might have done 'better.' The country > voted its conscience. >=20 > 2. Its conscience is founded on a morality-based worldview, which is > rural in origin, and relatively rigid. >=20 > 3. 9/ll played a critical role, not only in revealing the extreme > vulnerability of the country, but also in the production of an Islamic- > fundamentalist alterity that could not be dismissed. >=20 > 4. With the religious right, fundamental ontology replaces the episteme. >=20 > 5. Bush appeared, alive and life-like at the World Trade Center ruins > almost immediately after, conjoining his image with the intensity of > destruction. >=20 > 6. The left continuously focused on the negative aspects of the > Republican party, over-determining, at least in print, the violence of > a world-view at odds with the rest of the planet. >=20 > 7. Absolute morality is not concerned whatsoever with opinion. >=20 > 8. The right has been organizing, in the US, for at least a century > and a half; this election and the last have been in preparation for > decades. With the elimination of the 'fairness doctrine' under Reagan, > and with monopoly ownership of local broadcasting, the right has been > able to dominate the 'heartland' without opposition. The corporate and > Christian merge, to the benefit of both. >=20 > 9. In the 60s, which for many of us appears to be a history of the left, > the right quietly embraced both technology and structural compromises > that increased and solidified its power base, in rural and impoverished > areas of the country. >=20 > 10. A fundamental flaw is the assumption that so-called minority votes > are liberal and leftist; in fact, the opposite is increasingly the case. >=20 > 11. The 'American dream' is both part of class distinctions, and a > force in their elimination. Don't underrate its influence; no matter > how hard we try, there is no revolutionary class, but only power, > desire, economic status, and diffused and focused oppression. >=20 > 12. Corporate America is far more diverse and problematic than the left > assumes; it also presents a very real world of almost infinite choice > and identifications. Its collusions and corruptions are our collusions > and corruptions, and have absolutely nothing to do with God and God's > State. >=20 > 13. Cultural capital in the US is far more important than economic > capital, and its boundaries cut across the latter in terms of class. We > are all white trash and we are all intellectuals and theorists. >=20 > 14. Far too many judgments are made 'for' rural and so-called back- > water areas, which are almost never heard themselves. The information > discourse networks and religious institutions of the majority of American > voters are concretely effaced by abstraction. The water of baptism is > not H2O. >=20 > 15. Morality and fear are interwoven; it is the abject stereotyped > image of gays fucking that appears to corrode the 'clean and pure' body > politic. Your marriage wrecks my marriage. It is a failure of the left > not to deal with this; dismissing the violent imaginary out of hand > ensures its force within the political arena. >=20 > 16. In conservative America, the negation of negation is not dialectical, > but also a return to a rapturous positivity. >=20 > 17. If one's religion insists that abortion, for example, is murder, > then any means, including murder as literal self-preservation, may be > used in return as a defensive and pre-emptive action. It is not ever a > question of one side listening to another; it is a question of war to > an infinite degree. >=20 > 18. The church in rural and disenfranchised America is a communal and > cohesive force, one of the few institutions capable of lived-community > and defense against the rest of the world. But more than this, the > church is also the locus for community activity and identity. To dismiss > it, even in its intolerant and sometimes evangelical varieties, is to > miss the point of its existence. For the individual, the church is > salvation, explaining and preserving morality, even forgiving and > abetting the temptations of sin. >=20 > 19. The church overdetermines the rest of the world; rural and other- > wise isolated communities have a surprisingly low degree of information > flux. The church provides stability in a late-late-capitalist world of > postmodernity, where selves, ideologies, and languages are contested. > Within testament and testimony, there is no contestation; the church, > in other words, 'puts a hedge around the Torah' (Pirke Avot). >=20 > 20. In my opinion, the image of Kerry hunting (and killing) was not > only hypocritical and distasteful, but also a premature sign of defeat. > However, this had no affect on the election per se, which was already > determined, way back in the late 60s and early 70s, when Billy Graham > created the first automated post-office in the US - a religious > embrace of technology that forecast the future of the country. Perhaps > the left 'created' - i.e. the hacking manifesto - but the religious > right utilized, entrenched, constructed a primary embrace of individual > and instrumental reason that guaranteed the supple application of power > when and where needed. The only real question here is why it took so > long. >=20 > 21. The left has been hampered by split ideologies and critique; the > right, which permits no critique, has worked constantly with umbrella > ideologies. >=20 > 22. What has been exposed and contested in the US is often business as > usual in the rest of the world. We are witnessing a movement from > republic to empire, from the primacy of voting, to the primacy of > dominant interests. >=20 > 23. On a personal level - I have lived in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, > and the Bushlands of Texas and Florida. What happened was no surprise. > I voted early yesterday, and felt a sense of relief at the minor > _punctum_ I experienced. But I had no doubt that Bush would win, that > my voice was primarily personal therapeutic. Instead of despair late > last night/this morning, I've felt that our work, that of an opposition, > has only just begun - that it could only just begin. We have to > recognize, above all, that the US has done the will of the majority; > the more we overlook this, excuse this, theorize this, wonder 'what > went wrong,' the more we are weakened. Perhaps this is a positive sign - > in the sense that the enemy, if it is an enemy, is clear, and no longer > can be dismissed as an aberration. >=20 > 24. The 'cultural war' is war. >=20 > 25. Terror is an instrument of war. >=20 > 26. Religion sublimates terror. >=20 > 27. I live, you die. Vote or die holds no truck with the faithful. >=20 > 28. Language is not action. Belief is action. Belief is not language. >=20 > 29. The explication of fact in Michael Moore is replaced by the > internalization of sin and the body in Mel Gibson. Old Testament, New > Testament. >=20 > 30=A0 What the right knows: There is always already closure. >=20 >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:57:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Drunken Boat looking for work re: Aphasia, William Meredith, Oulipo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable International online journal of the arts Drunken Boat = is looking for work dealing with aphasia = (or alexia, agraphia, anomia, or muscleparalysis) and William Meredith's = poetry and criticism for its next issue, editorial deadline = (11/30/2004). For 2005, Drunken Boat is looking for work that engages = however directly or obliquely with Oulipo (or Oubapo, Oucuipo, Ouhistpo, = Oumupo, Ouphopo, or Outrapo). Please direct all submissions to = .=20 -RS=20 ed., http;//www.drunkenboat.com =0D *************** Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 00:01:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: it is terrible we are on this earth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed it is terrible we are on this earth ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:24:56 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Cheney Election Called At Least As Clean As Mubarak's Or Karzai's Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Did God Steal The Election?: Is Premier Theocrat Fed Up With The Enlightenment?: New Electronic Voting Booths Invaluable In War On Terror: Officials Tout 'Wrong' People Can't Get Elected With New Diebold Millennium 2000: Machine Performing God's Will Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes: "God works in mysterious ways. Praise the Lord!," Says Ohio Governor Bob Haft: "Its Just God's Way of Keeping Us Safe," Comments White House Chief Of Stink, Karl Rove: Unprecedented Turn Out May have Been Just That: Cheney Election Called At Least As Clean As Mubarak's Or Karzai's: By BARK FULKEY They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 02:57:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i don't know anymore about poetrty's rarity surely maybe in contrast to smoking or buying shoes or distressed jeans for 200$ or pop music biut here in ny anyway poetry is an overflowing well tho of course it'll never become mainsteammin a BIG sense and alot of that well is stagnant tho few take any notice enough bullshit out of me i never read anyone's poetry but my one not ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:40:40 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit listserv o west wind drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:03:02 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: xantippe Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT looking for snail mail addy for the magazine outta california. i mean, it still exists, right? rob -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:06:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Bush Meets Chinese Herbalist Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Today I went to my Chinese barely English speaking genius, rarely visited, herbalist to get treated for a scary, nocturnal loss of equilibrium - i.e. dizzy & about to fall down when I get out of bed to walk= . =B3Ear,=B2 he says and takes my pulse. "And George Bush?" I ask. "Yes. George Bush. So many people sick come here this week. Dizzy, too. George Bush," he laughs, "It is.=B2 Seven days of bitter teas - so beautiful in the raw: mushrooms, flowers, more fungi -multiple colors - including a hard green-white thistle burr - the kind you never want in your hiking sock. "That one," he says, "stops th= e dizzy." Illness and thistle burrs as national metaphor? Dizzy - vertigo - where in God's name - so to speak - are we - this country - about to drop? Shut-up, boil the herbs and drink the tea! Argh! Mending the week (weak??!!) Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:44:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Taking The Umbrella Approach Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed we hooves love ourselves, understood as well-thumbed Americans full deep with soap sheened laws r, w, & blue mangled onto a cloth field as icy rain ravaged as any the colors up: we, dun - hued as any rain that fell w/out knowing a wingbeat _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:21:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: [asle] FW: [RFP] Fwd: did we LOSE the election?? Comments: To: ASLE , Webartery , Invent-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The picture of Kerry hunting made me feel sick, as did his harping on the Vietnam War. The salute, the hero stuff--one becomes a hero by killing "the enemy"--didn't work. In the end, he became anyone he thought would give him a vote. He lost because he didn't have faith in what he believed. Thus: We need a progressive coalition that, like the conservatives, has a clear view of itself. We need to know what we want our country to be before we can move it that way. We need progressive think tanks, and more media. We need to recapture the language from the manipulative self-serving lies of the Right. We need to move religion away from petty moralisms, from suppression of the Other, toward the reality of an environment-based present, which is always progressive. We need to plant deeper than a chainsaw can reach. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:53:08 -0800 Reply-To: antrobin@clipper.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anthony Robinson Subject: Re: And now, back to the real world... In-Reply-To: <07ba01c4c2a6$28703b20$220110ac@unlikelydesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii “One Future That Binds Us.” In the fat October, all we needed were kitchen staples: soap and ash, mostly. Then flour, back bacon, butter and eggs. We were hopeful. We wore gray wigs. We played pool and practiced signing our names with feathered pins on fancy sheepskins. We were onto something big. Next stop—the place they keep the buffalo. Those grazing lands look nice. We were carried here by men with heavy wings. * A pile of shit (a “fortunate mistake” of a book of verses) and a thin brown-haired, flat-chested girl sustained me through my banquet years and gave me reams and sheafs of freshly-printed, ink still wet, smelling like a good book material for my puritan fantasies—you ease my troubles, that’s what you do. I sent eleven photographs; you didn’t respond. Take away my sadness, you feel my heart with gladness. That’s what you do. * Pushed in as far as it would go and hit something—bump—it’s okay, it’s only a gopher. Always one with the image. The bedroom smelled of lilacs and cheap incense. Girlwatching but only one girl to watch and the pillow stained with cigarette smoke. When I was ten the Secretary of the Interior crushed puppies and flowers. Pillows looked like yr teeth & there’s a reason the round vowels went missing. Pick up your clothes, take the back door out. * Smoking with you. Whiskey in a Mason jar. Why are all your friends gay? What’s the matter with me. Why does your cat piss on the art print wedding presents. Is it because we’re too high, too high to give up our frequent flier miles to the citizenry less competent? In the country, they’re called Pagans. Here we just say, “faggots.” Let not be torn asunder that which hath been hastily glued together and covered with pretty glitter. * I’m becoming experimental all over your back. I’ve done it twice. Sulfur lamps are keeping me up all night. Green banker’s lamps lend an avocado pallor to my naked thigh. There’s a rush and a thrush. A bird and a directive. The circles under my eyes make me look Lebanese. I’m fixing to defect. * A primer, a hornbook. A schoolmarm getup pasted next to a german paper doll. When the man dressed as the harem attendant eunuched his way up the walk, I could only think of America’s magical heartland. Chicken fried steak and mashed taters. Ropes tightly coiled, swinging like children in dresses and saddle shoes. * Banishing me will do no good. As a child, we’d scream “I’m a banshee!” and it meant something shameful. Something we’ll never do again. (We cast black stones and white stones.) When we kissed we meant it, just not for very long. * All this pornography is giving me a collarbone. The color of hamhocks and the best American pies. A travel pamphlet up the wazoo. A ride to the top of the arch. Bicyclists pedaling through Iowa prefer breakfast burritos and loose meats. I’m verily trouncing my own regulations, yea. What I meant was, you can’t do it. * It’s unconscionable, this outcome. It’s all over the floor. It’s looser than a breadbox. It’s taking the jobs with it. It’s taking the Latinos with it. It’s escaping out the door with a shoebox full of lost red bullets. It’s rising like hot air, like a child with too many balloons. Red and blue and young and proud and covered with some stockbroker’s Happy Ending. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:44:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Bottom Of The Stack Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed illness emblems were cut out of clutches one illness emblem was Crinoline — was this sleeplessness — was this Lilac — this kind of news comes at the bottom of the stack * "O I love top sport, with ambition!" quote from you, only other of Steadily Looking-Glass, you away, up, carried mountains... success! REVEALED means EVENT: a lucky sign, Perturbing Cypress, was also cut out of clutches / a splendid loss of crutches _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:33:20 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Ballot Of The Apes: Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Ballot Of The Apes: For Bush Supporters Its Electoral High School At Best: STATEWIDE IQ AND 2000 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:25:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Putin signs Kyoto protocol Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Putin signs the KYOTO PROTOCOL which will put enormous pressure on the U.S. to do the same...Bush will refuse--although this nation by far is the largest consumer and polluter. This is the story you'll see covered up by the major U.S. news media. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this story doesn't make it to the eyes and ears of 90% of this country. The global warming story is a major threat to the Bush administration. Could end up being their Achilles heel. Get out the word about this especially to those in the red states. (I realize that there are many, many people living in the red states that don't agree with our current president.) What this means? The world unanimously agrees that the climate change is bad, accelerating, and will affect the lives of earth's inhabitants in an extremely negative way. Also, new is the idea that once the climate change really starts it will increase in speed over time. http://www.zaman.com/?bl=hotnews&alt=&trh=20041105&hn=13605 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 00:53:34 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: "America I've given you all... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > yeeearheee!!!!!!!!!! whaheeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!! ginsberg!!!!!!!!!great to > read this again......America I hate churches/America I'm > strange/Amerrriiicaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!! > America - free Bobby Fischer!!!!! > yaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!eeeeeeeeeeeyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!! > I'm a > psychopath................................................................. > aghiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!......................... > Him America what you doin in Guantanmarooo???????????? is God and > American?..does God smoke........................... > pot..aaaheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....Sacco and Vincenti must not > die........................................................I'm near sighted > anyway...................yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > him America kill 100,000 in Iraq..................60% wonmena and > children................I'm mad............................................ > aagaghahhghhhhhhghghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kari edwards" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:32 AM > Subject: "America I've given you all... > > > > Allen Ginsberg-- > > > > America I've given you all and now I'm nothing. > > America two dollars and twenty-seven cents January 17, 1956. > > I can't stand my own mind. > > America when will we end the human war? > > Go fuck yourself with your atom bomb > > I don't feel good don't bother me. > > I won't write my poem till I'm in my right mind. > > America when will you be angelic? > > When will you take off your clothes? > > When will you look at yourself through the grave? > > When will you be worthy of your million Trotskyites? > > America why are your libraries full of tears? > > America when will you send your eggs to India? > > I'm sick of your insane demands. > > When can I go into the supermarket and buy what I need with my good > > looks? > > America after all it is you and I who are perfect not the next world. > > Your machinery is too much for me. > > You made me want to be a saint. > > There must be some other way to settle this argument. > > Burroughs is in Tangiers I don't think he'll come back it's sinister. > > Are you being sinister or is this some form of practical joke? > > I'm trying to come to the point. > > I refuse to give up my obsession. > > America stop pushing I know what I'm doing. > > America the plum blossoms are falling. > > I haven't read the newspapers for months, everyday somebody goes on > > trial for > > murder. > > America I feel sentimental about the Wobblies. > > America I used to be a communist when I was a kid and I'm not sorry. > > I smoke marijuana every chance I get. > > I sit in my house for days on end and stare at the roses in the closet. > > When I go to Chinatown I get drunk and never get laid. > > My mind is made up there's going to be trouble. > > You should have seen me reading Marx. > > My psychoanalyst thinks I'm perfectly right. > > I won't say the Lord's Prayer. > > I have mystical visions and cosmic vibrations. > > America I still haven't told you what you did to Uncle Max after he > > came over > > from Russia. > > > > I'm addressing you. > > Are you going to let our emotional life be run by Time Magazine? > > I'm obsessed by Time Magazine. > > I read it every week. > > Its cover stares at me every time I slink past the corner candystore. > > I read it in the basement of the Berkeley Public Library. > > It's always telling me about responsibility. Businessmen are serious. > > Movie > > producers are serious. Everybody's serious but me. > > It occurs to me that I am America. > > I am talking to myself again. > > > > Asia is rising against me. > > I haven't got a chinaman's chance. > > I'd better consider my national resources. > > My national resources consist of two joints of marijuana millions of > > genitals > > an unpublishable private literature that goes 1400 miles and hour and > > twentyfivethousand mental institutions. > > I say nothing about my prisons nor the millions of underpriviliged who > > live in > > my flowerpots under the light of five hundred suns. > > I have abolished the whorehouses of France, Tangiers is the next to go. > > My ambition is to be President despite the fact that I'm a Catholic. > > > > America how can I write a holy litany in your silly mood? > > I will continue like Henry Ford my strophes are as individual as his > > automobiles more so they're all different sexes > > America I will sell you strophes $2500 apiece $500 down on your old > > strophe > > America free Tom Mooney > > America save the Spanish Loyalists > > America Sacco & Vanzetti must not die > > America I am the Scottsboro boys. > > America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell meetings they > > sold us garbanzos a handful per ticket a ticket costs a nickel and the > > speeches were free everybody was angelic and sentimental about the > > workers it was all so sincere you have no idea what a good thing the > > party > > was in 1935 Scott Nearing was a grand old man a real mensch Mother > > Bloor made me cry I once saw Israel Amter plain. Everybody must have > > been a spy. > > America you don're really want to go to war. > > America it's them bad Russians. > > Them Russians them Russians and them Chinamen. And them Russians. > > The Russia wants to eat us alive. The Russia's power mad. She wants to > > take > > our cars from out our garages. > > Her wants to grab Chicago. Her needs a Red Reader's Digest. her wants > > our > > auto plants in Siberia. Him big bureaucracy running our fillingstations. > > That no good. Ugh. Him makes Indians learn read. Him need big black > > niggers. > > Hah. Her make us all work sixteen hours a day. Help. > > America this is quite serious. > > America this is the impression I get from looking in the television set. > > America is this correct? > > I'd better get right down to the job. > > It's true I don't want to join the Army or turn lathes in precision > > parts > > factories, I'm nearsighted and psychopathic anyway. > > America I'm putting my queer shoulder to the wheel. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 23:51:55 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Were the exit polls wrong? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Or did hackers "fix" the vote in FL, OH and elsewhere? http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1104-38.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:04:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Some of my post-election thoughts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We needed roughly 140,000 additional votes in Ohio. I don't know the precise numbers as to how many person hours and=20 folks canvassing there through the preceding months 140,000 additional votes would have required, but I do know that we=20 could have "outnumbered" the religious right there with just a bit more organizing and focus on specific political action. We will now need to expand our base in the Northeast, the=20 North, and the West Coast, and then from there move into=20 bordering states and get our electoral vote numbers up a notch=20 or so. We will need to steal away mindsets now controlled by=20 the Republicans, including religious right outcasts terrified by their parents' and culture's dehumanization, but especially those who are NOT holding to that=20 electorate for the so-called "moral values" reasons; i.e., bring the old-fashioned "fiscal conservatives" over to our "church." We must rupture and destructure "monotheism" and move to a global pantheism (er, secular humanism) with stealth and with the shrewdist language propaganda we can slip through mass media censors. We can join with the rest of our global family members=20 to censure these tiny minority world children who comprise=20 a mere 52% of our electorate and naively believe that the rest of the planet loves their socioeconomic,=20 sociopolitical self-destructiveness. So, HOW get some or all of these things done (within 200 years the dissolution of monotheism and "GOD" will=20 already have occurred, actually)? I don't know, exactly, but we ARE smarter than they are and we are=20 hurting more than they are. They meet in churches every week, 52 weeks of the year, and during other=20 church social and activist events. In effect, they "want it," their way and their morals and especially=20 their terminally ill "god concept," MORE THAN WE DO. Or what? Anyhow, we're much smarter than they are and we=20 are NOT all that outnumbered by any stretch of=20 the imagination. Again, we lost in Ohio by a mere 136,000 votes and nationwide by a mere couple of percentage points and 3 or so million. We have more money than they do, more friends and support around the world (90% to 10% !), and actually=20 easier access to networking and organizing (as our=20 greater numbers are concentrated in the cities and we are more open to taking advantage of technologies (internet, cell phone, etc.). Also, we can and likely will gain the most from the energetic youth, who number greater support for our side than they do for the fascist side. I, for one, needed to get my butt to Ohio (once only) and Pennsylvania (once only)=20 more than I did. I DID get others to Ohio and Pennsylvania (by donating almost 1700 to various groups (ACT, Moveon, Kerry/Edwards)), so "my time" was volunteered straight out of my $13.00 an hour weekly paychecks. I must say, though, that on Election Weekend (Cleveland), I met folks coming up from Texas, from New York City, from California, from Seattle, many on their own dime and, like me, using their vacation time from their jobs. =20 Last, we 5-10 thousand poets (avant-garde, etc.) can meet regularly for combined political action and poetics conferences. Let's rest for a bit, and then DO IT! Steve Tills =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:32:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "E. Tracy Grinnell" Subject: NEW from LITMUS PRESS: The Mudra, by Kerri Sonnenberg Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Mudra, by Kerri Sonnenberg The symbolic hand gestures in images of the Buddha point toward their origi= n in ritual dance. Sonnenberg=B9s poems point us to a dance of the intellect among words, words close to music and =B3be side reasoning.=B2 Mesmeric. --Rosmarie Waldrop =20 Kerri Sonnenberg's genius allows her to hold charged language in a mobile, kinetic, charged tension: as alive as the world it keeps faith with. In Th= e Mudra, boundaries blur, meanings shift, positions=ADand oppositions=ADpresent themselves (and vanish), other possibilities appear, "couldn't I just as well...," opening further negotiations between word and world, worded world and self. Emotionally, intellectually "there is ante through adjusts" as th= e reader activates this extraordinary, finely balanced and absolutely thrilling book. --Laura Mullen ****** ISBN: 0-9723331-3-4 80 pages, paperback $12 US All Litmus Press publications are available through Small Press Distributio= n www.spdbooks.org For more information on Litmus Press titles: www.litmuspress.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:48:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: passive moralists Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Pamela--- Thank you for this in general--especially your thoughts on the possibility of the republicans fragmenting at the seam between economic and moral. Also, thanks for your Hollywood scenario about the rewrite of Will & Grace. I wish I had thought of that, and it definitely begins to fit the bill of the kind of thing I was gesturing towards. Chris ---------- >From: Pamela Lu >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: passive moralists >Date: Thu, Nov 4, 2004, 1:13 PM > > Aaron, et al, > > I agree. Of course politics cannot be reduced down to > linguistic/philosophical analyses. We're dealing with real, i.e. material, > issues here, real lives, real jobs, real freedoms are at stake here. That's > why the outlook of another 4 years, what with the possibility of up to 4 > Supreme Court appointments coming up for grabs, makes me very very afraid. > > I too feel bitter about this entrenched corporatized two-party system, where > only millionaires can afford to run for office, where third-party candidates > are barred from the nationally televised debates. That needs to change. I > feel some rancor too about Nadar not sticking with the Green party this time > around, I mean, if we want to promote a multi-party system we at least need > to start developing loyalty to our third parties, don't we? In 2000 the > Greens looked like they were going to be a really viable organized party > beyond the Dems and the Repubs, especially on the national scale with Nadar's > high profile. Now it looks like a lot of people were just attracted to Nadar > as an individual candidate, and not so much to the Green party platform. > > I still have high hopes that the Greens will continue to gain political > power, starting from the grassroots level on up. We need more Green (and > other minority party) members on school boards, city councils, boards of > supervisors, as mayors, state legislators, governors, and then...? > > At the same time, for fear of fragmenting the Left, I wish some of the Repub > party base would split off and form a conservative third party that fragments > the Right. Besides the anti-govt. conservative liberatarians, we could have > the ultra-Christian theocrats jumping ship and draining the vote. Well, at > least I can fantasize about this. That would only be a likely scenario if > John McCain somehow started calling all the shots in the Repub party... > > Back to the language thing. If you read Lakoff carefully, his is *not* a > facile ivory tower argument. He outlines how the neocon movement has poured > millions of dollars during the 40 odd years since Goldwater into conservative > think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute, and into conservative > network funds that seek to attract and retain bright young conservatives and > help them into key positions of power in the academy and the media industry. > Sound like a conspiracy? Well, it was just smart organizing. As a result, the > conservatives managed to build a coalition out of what was once a splintered > Repub party base. > > Lakoff's point is that the conservatives worded their platform points into a > successful rhetoric that strongly won over the Christian evangelical base, > which as group may not actually be wealthy and may in fact be voting against > their own economic self-interest by supporting tax breaks for the rich. The > logical argument here takes a back seat to the emotional appeal to "moral > values" or whatever you want to call it, but this is not to say the people > are just empty droids ready to absorb whatever their leaders tell them. They > absorb these ideas, these rhetorical calls on behalf of "morality", because > these ideas actually do resonate with some emotional core of familiarity and > personal conviction. Lakoff's theory is that this conviction is not only a > religious one, but a deep-seated values-based one, which speaks to > fundamental differences between how conservatives and liberals view the > world, view human nature, and the roles/responsibilities of humans in the > world. > > Lakoff's appeal to liberals is that they take this moral values issue, and > the emotions it registers in voters, seriously, because it could be the key > to what makes swing voters swing in the first place. In a lot of ways I > subscribe to his argument because I subscribe to the idea that election > campaigns are more and more about turning over this percentage of swing > voters, because that's the pivotal factor. So campaigns have to be fought on > several fronts at once: 1) Mobilize the loyal party base, get them interested > in volunteering, spreading the word; 2) Win the national debate on issues, > outlining the many reasons why the Dem platform is better for people, social > justice, the environment, and the nation in general; AND 3) Turn over enough > swing voters by appealing to their sense of deep-seated values, *not* their > conservative-based values but their *liberal-based* values, because the idea > is that the swing voter (what I guess I'm calling the "passive" voter) has > *both* sets of values, liberal and conservative, in their personal makeup. > This third front is where campaign language becomes very very important. > > Anyhow, this is a topic to think about for the long term, for the long-term > future of the liberal coalition and the country in general. In a way I just > want to put in plug in there for Lakoff because I feel he's really done his > homework and is really on to something in my opinion. > > A assorted handful of cents: > > On the reds and the blues-- I just want to affirm Chris Stroffolino's post > about the alienation between the red and blue states, and about how us blue > types can't just take the I'm-above-it-all elite city slicker stance forever > against the red yokels and expect things to change. We have to take the other > side seriously, learn how the enemy thinks the way it does and why. In > response to the 11 anti-gay initiatives that passed across the states, I > predict that gay producer moguls in Hollywood will start coming out with > sentimental Hallmark-style melodramas about the travails of mainstream gay > couples and their children -- instead of Will & Grace bouncing around the gay > ghetto, we'll have Willie and Mike on some couch somewhere in a midwestern > suburb or even small town, shopping at the WalMart back-to-school sale for > their adopted, possibly multiracial children, enduring slurs and attacks and > nasty remarks from the conservative town baddies but also getting supportive > hugs, kind words, and friendly go-get-'em punches on the shoulder from > open-minded supermarket checkout clerks and Seventh-Heaven-style progressive > social justice pastors. On the next election day, swing voters in red states, > especially the female ones, will gaze at the anti-gay initiative set before > them on the ballot, think back on cinematic memories of what poor sweet > Willie had to endure just to have a family life like everyone else, and > tearfully punch through the "No" square on the scorecard, leaving it > chadless... > > On passive morality and voting-- I guess when I use the term "passive" to > describe a voter, this is what I mean: I have essentially been a passive > voter myself in the past, when it comes to ballot initiatives and > propositions. In California we literally have a dozen or more of these > propositions to decide on each election. This time round, I was an "active" > actually read my information pamphlet pretty thoroughly beforehand. My > partner and I spent a good Saturday reading through all the summaries, the > arguments pro and con, the rebuttals to the arguments pro and con, and we > talked through the ones we felt iffy on. Where I felt iffy on a proposition, > I categorize myself as essentially a "swing voter" on that proposition. So > she and I debated over the iffy ones and sometimes I convinced her to my > side, or she convinced me to her side. Sometimes we were left on opposite > sides and our votes cancelled each other out. Sometimes we both convinced > each other to our sides and wound up with diametrically switched positions > from where we started. I actually agonized over a couple of them and spent > election day morning rereading arguments and articles, and switched my > position on two propositions minutes before entering the polling booth. And > that was after an "active" approach! > > Now what would I have done in a "passive" approach? In the past, I would have > blown off the big thick voter info pamphlet with its one or more > supplementary bulletins. I would have clipped out a couple of endorsement > pages that *felt socially and ideologically familiar* to me, which in this > case would have been the Dem party grid and the endorsement page of my local > left-leaning muckraking urban weekly. I would have gone down the column in > about 5 minutes matching my votes, where the two endorsement tables differed > I would have deferred to the weekly's. Presto. Done. I would have been a > swing voter who had been captured by one or another camp *passively*. > > On families and counterculture-- Seems to me that even in countercultural > communities that are actively not centered around or even actively opposed to > the conventional biological notion of "family", the relationship dynamics > that get played out are still in fact modelled psychologically after the > countercultural individuals' idea or memory of their biological families. And > we have the contemporary urban notion of the "family" or community you choose > versus the one you're afflicted with, as when gay people of my generation > give each other high fives and exclaim "hey, you're family!" We need to > expand the term "family" so that it's about emotional support and security > and solidarity, not just biology. > > On good and evil in the hearts of humanity-- I grew up in a highly intolerant > part of California, so when I was younger I believed that many people around > me had malevolence and hostility in their hearts and were out to get me. I > was right. Some of these people were active in their malevolence, and some > were more passive. It was a continuum of intolerance. As I get older I have > less of this feeling in general. This isn't so much a function of age but of > changing times. When I go back and visit my hometown I find it to be > dramatically less intolerant (this is not to say that it's actually > *tolerant*!). But things like social attitudes, especially among the young, > have really shifted over the years, and the continuum of intolerance has > basically lost a lot of its passive members. This is due in part to some > large and widespread changes in social opinion nationwide. And I think that's > why reactionary movements like the Christian Right have such a jarring impact > and appearance -- they stand out, because they are moving against the social > tide that's been progressing ever since the civil rights movement. > > So I say, get 'em when they're young. Send coalitions of liberal Christians > out to the moderate churches and college campuses to get the young Christians > mobilized to the progressive side, before the Right tries to sweep them over > with manipulative claims of a "populist conservative revolution". Mobilize > the young. > > Best, > Pam ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:42:00 -0500 Reply-To: pmetres@jcu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Metres MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-----76f5dffccfafdb5c674acb18b5a7f66c" -------76f5dffccfafdb5c674acb18b5a7f66c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, In my post-election day blues, after busting ass to get out the vote for Kerry in my Cleveland-area neighborhood, I came across this poem by Whitman.... For anyone who says there is no difference between Kerry and Bush, I say: mercury. Halliburton. Abu Ghraib. Guantanamo. Wilson's CIA wife outed. Trumped-up threats. 1000 dead. 100,000 dead. ad infinitum. -------76f5dffccfafdb5c674acb18b5a7f66c Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Message 14" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Message 14" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Return-Path: Received: from mirapoint.jcu.edu (localhost.jcu.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mirapoint.jcu.edu (MOS 3.4.3-CR) with ESMTP id AQA29768; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:22:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from 4.158.63.87 by mirapoint.jcu.edu (MOS 3.4.3-CR) with HTTP/1.1; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:22:17 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:22:17 -0500 From: Philip Metres To: pmetres@jcu.edu Reply-To: pmetres@jcu.edu X-Mailer: Webmail Mirapoint Direct 3.4.3-CR MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <89321651.9a40f3c3.831e100@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VG8gdGhlIFN0YXRlcyAoVG8gSWRlbnRpZnkgdGhlIDE2dGgsIDE3dGgsIG9yIDE4dGggDQpQ cmVzaWRlbnRpYWQpIGJ5IFdhbHQgV2hpdG1hbg0KDQpXaHkgcmVjbGluaW5nLCBpbnRlcnJv Z2F0aW5nPyBXaHkgbXlzZWxmIGFuZCBhbGwgZHJvd3Npbmc/ICAgDQpXaGF0IGRlZXBlbmlu ZyB0d2lsaWdodCEgc2N1bSBmbG9hdGluZyBhdG9wIG9mIHRoZSB3YXRlcnMhICAgDQpXaG8g YXJlIHRoZXksIGFzIGJhdHMgYW5kIG5pZ2h0LWRvZ3MsIGFza2FudCBpbiB0aGUgDQpDYXBp dG9sPyAgIA0KV2hhdCBhIGZpbHRoeSBQcmVzaWRlbnRpYWQhIChPIHNvdXRoLCB5b3VyIHRv cnJpZCBzdW5zISBPIA0Kbm9ydGgsIHlvdXIgYXJjdGljIGZyZWV6aW5ncyEpICAgDQpBcmUg dGhvc2UgcmVhbGx5IENvbmdyZXNzbWVuPyBhcmUgdGhvc2UgdGhlIGdyZWF0IEp1ZGdlcz8g aXMgDQp0aGF0IHRoZSBQcmVzaWRlbnQ/IA0KVGhlbiBJIHdpbGwgc2xlZXAgYXdoaWxlIHll dOKAlC1mb3IgSSBzZWUgdGhhdCBUaGVzZSBTdGF0ZXMgDQpzbGVlcCwgZm9yIHJlYXNvbnM7 ICAgDQooV2l0aCBnYXRoZXJpbmcgbXVya+KAlC13aXRoIG11dHRlcmluZyB0aHVuZGVyIGFu ZCBsYW1iZW50IA0Kc2hvb3RzLCB3ZSBhbGwgZHVseSBhd2FrZSwgICANClNvdXRoLCBub3J0 aCwgZWFzdCwgd2VzdCwgaW5sYW5kIGFuZCBzZWFib2FyZCwgd2Ugd2lsbCBzdXJlbHkgDQph d2FrZS4pIA0KDQpQaGlsaXAgTWV0cmVzDQpBc3Npc3RhbnQgUHJvZmVzc29yDQpEZXBhcnRt ZW50IG9mIEVuZ2xpc2gNCkpvaG4gQ2Fycm9sbCBVbml2ZXJzaXR5DQoyMDcwMCBOLiBQYXJr IEJsdmQNClVuaXZlcnNpdHkgSGVpZ2h0cywgT0ggNDQxMTgNCigyMTYpIDM5Ny00NTI4ICh3 b3JrKQ0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5waGlsaXBtZXRyZXMuY29tDQo= -------76f5dffccfafdb5c674acb18b5a7f66c-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:15:57 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: School of the Americas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "When policeman break the law, there is no law." Billy Jack Out of a great dark revolution, when survival mutated into the enemy at its door, when evolution strayed into a dead end like a drunk staggering under the weight of unspeakable human cruelty, we spawned this American today like a horrible viral accident, pre-doomed to its own lack of faith and ethic, its own undignified inhuman agenda, de-centered from its founding personalities, bubbling up into a black life of its own, blighting, blinding, bilking, burning, branding, burying, people, in ideas run amok, self-generating, pollinating, land to land, man to man, world to world: the School of the Americas. And Jesus said, the ovens have grown cold, but you no longer need me, every word I was lives on awaiting the kingdom, the king; and the Fuhrer though spent has arisen like the boys from Brazil, American and strong, and a kingdom comes, the kingdom at hand, a kingdom of mutants. And in the mass torture we have spilled the blood of contrition, slit the goat and loosed it, and no one wants to remember: just give me grace today. Drowning boards, burnings, shackles, hooded beatings in chairs; broom handles in anuses, glass tubes in penises, electrodes in vaginas, mice in vaginas and anuses, gnawing at humanity, gnawing, gnawing down the human dream. Evil is a communicable disease, its breaks down the immune system, the human memory, with comfort. The School of the Americas, a voice of our system, our tax dollar at work in the universe, the oozing festering remains of fear and rebellion born of stupid greedy men, a rabid nazi kennel of goatherd kingdom builders. What is a rogue state? Who are the lawless? They want to make us disappear because we want to make them appear, make them visible, floodlight hell on earth, provide choices for ethical human beings, provide a face for evil. I will fight no more forever except to say, bury my heart close to Jean if they let you find my body. Evil cannot be killed. It has to find its own end, drowning in its own vomit, torturing itself, out of reach of the dignity it has forsaken. Let it live and it will die. Put the violated genitals on TV. Make Mickey Mouse an instrument of torture in a series of dark cartoons. Make it popular, like manifest destiny. I believe in evolution, and the truth is not a revolution. It's all existence anyway isn't it? Who says: "Vote for me for President and I will find those responsible for this and put them on public trial as my first official act"? Nobody. Instead it's Negroponte for ambassador. Hell, why not Pinochet, or Ollie North? I never saw the order of the stars 'til '93, but then I lived, by dumb luck alone, unaware of skyward things. "I received your letter yesterday, about the time my door knob broke. You asked me what I was doing. Is that some kind of joke? All these people that you mention, yes I know them they're quite lame. I had to rearrange their faces and give them all another name. Right now I can't read too good. Don't send me no more letters, no. Not unless you mail them from, Desolation Row." Dylan. Trinidad Cruz used with permission originally post at Yahoo Group 'existlist' ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:56:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Blue State: Reading the Election Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Blue State: Reading the Election with Kenneth Fearing (in progress) http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/post07.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:13:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Erica Kaufman Subject: NEXT WEEK: Enjoy Belladonna* with TWO Different Events!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed enjoy BELLADONNA* (twice!) Tuesday, November 9, 7pm Nicole Brossard in Conversation with Mary Ann Caws @ Poets House (72 Spring Street) $7, Free for Members & CUNY faculty and students (co-sponsored by Poets House, The Center for Humanities @ CUNY, and Belladonna*) ++++ Wednesday, November 10, 7PM A Belladonna* Reading: Nicole Brossard & Renee Gladman Room 9204/9205 (9th floor), The Graduate Center, CUNY, 365 5th Avenue at 34th Street. A $7-10 donation is suggested. Nicole Brossard has published more than thirty books of poetry, essays and novels since 1965. She co-founded and co-directed the literary magazine La Barre du Jour, co-directed the film Some American Feminists and co-edited the acclaimed Anthologie de la poésie des femmes au Québec, first published in 1991 & 2003. Mary Ann Caws, Distinguished Professor of English, French, and Comparative Literature at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, is the author of many volumes on art and literature as well as editor and co-translator of the Yale Anthology of Twentieth Century French Poetry. Renee Gladman is the author of Juice (Kelsey St. Press 2000) and The Activist (Krupskaya 2003). She edits Leon Works, a perfect-bound series for experimental prose, and Leona, a pamphlet series for hybrid work. She currently lives in Brooklyn. Belladonna* is a feminist/innovative reading and publication series that promotes the work of women writers who are adventurous, experimental, politically involved, multi-form, multicultural, multi-gendered, unpredictable, dangerous with language (to the death machinery). In its five year history, Belladonna* has featured such writers as Leslie Scalapino, Alice Notley, Erica Hunt, Fanny Howe, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Cecilia Vicuña, Lisa Jarnot, Camille Roy, Nicole Brossard, Abigail Child, Norma Cole, Lynne Tillman and Carla Harryman among many other experimental and hybrid women writers. Beyond being a platform for women writers, the curators promote work that is experimental in form, connects with other art forms, and is socially/politically active in content. Alongside the readings, Belladonna* supports its artists by publishing commemorative pamphlets of their work on the night of the event. Please contact us (Rachel Levitsky and Erica Kaufman) at belladonnaseries@yahoo.com to receive a catalog and be placed on our list. *deadly nightshade, a cardiac and respiratory stimulant, having purplish-red flowers and black berries Belladonna* readings happen monthly between September and June This event is sponsored by Poets & Writers, Inc. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 00:46:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: FW: My First Thoughts About the Election (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Jacques L. Yerby To: "Cybermind List (Cybermind List)" Subject: FW: My First Thoughts About the Election Michael Moore weighs in. Missing are the names of innocent dead Iraqis. We may never know who they are or how many. Jacques _____ I've stopped 367 spam messages. You can too! One month FREE spam protection at www.cloudmark.com Cloudmark SpamNet - Join the fight against spam! -----Original Message----- From: Michael Moore [mailto:maillist@michaelmoore.com] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:26 PM To: lists@muho.org Subject: My First Thoughts About the Election Thursday, November 4th, 2004 My first thoughts about the election... Cpl. Roberto Abad, Sgt. Michael D. Acklin II, Spc. Genaro Acosta, Pfc. Steven Acosta, Capt. James F. Adamouski, Pvt. Algernon Adams, Sgt. Brandon E. Adams, Spc. Clarence Adams III, 1st Lt. Michael R. Adams, Pfc. Michael S. Adams, Lt. Thomas Mullen Adams, Spc. Jamaal R. Addison, Lance Cpl. Patrick R. Adle, Capt. Tristan N. Aitken, Spc. Segun Frederick Akintade, Lance Cpl. Nickalous N. Aldrich, Spc. Ronald D. Allen Jr., Sgt. Glenn R. Allison, Lance Cpl. Michael J. Allred, Capt. Eric L. Allton, Cpl. Nicanor Alvarez, Cpl. Daniel R. Amaya, Pfc. John D. Amos II, Lance Cpl. Brian E. Anderson, Airman 1st Class Carl L. Anderson Jr., Petty Officer 2nd Class Michael C. Anderson, Spc. Michael Andrade, Pfc, Spc. Yoe M. Aneiros, Lance Cpl. Levi T. Angell, Army Spc. Edward J. Anguiano, Chief Warrant Officer Andrew Todd Arnold, Lance Cpl. Alexander S. Arredondo, Spc. Richard Arriaga, Staff Sgt. Jimmy J. Arroyave, Spc. Robert R. Arsiaga, Sgt. Evan Asa Ashcraft, Pfc. Shawn M. Atkins, Maj. Jay Aubin, Capt. Matthew J. August, Lance Cpl. Aaron C. Austin, Spc. Tyanna S. Avery-Fedder, Lance Cpl. Andrew Julian Aviles, Pfc. Eric A. Ayon, Sgt. 1st Class Henry A. Bacon, Sgt. Andrew Joseph Baddick, Staff Sgt. Daniel A. Bader, Staff Sgt. Nathan J. Bailey, Spc. Ronald W. Baker, Spc. Ryan T. Baker, Sgt. Sherwood R. Baker. Pfc. Chad E. Bales, 1st Lt. Kenneth Michael Ballard, Maj. Spc. Solomon C. Bangayan, Lt. Col. Dominic R. Baragona, Pfc. Mark A. Barbret, Pfc. Collier E. Barcus, Sgt. Michael C. Barkey, Spc. Jonathan P. Barnes, Command Sgt. Maj. Edward C. Barnhill, Lance Cpl. Aric J. Barr, Sgt. Michael Paul Barrera, Maj. Carlos Barro Ollero, Sgt. Douglas E. Bascom, Spc. Todd M. Bates, Sgt. 1st Class Michael Battles Sr., Gunnery Sgt. Ronald E. Baum, Spc. Alan N. Bean Jr., Spc. Bradley S. Beard, Spc. Beau R. Beaulieu, Capt. Ryan Beaupre, Spc. James L. Beckstrand, Sgt. Gregory A. Belanger, Cpl. Christopher Belchik, Sgt. Aubrey D. Bell, Pfc. Wilfred D. Bellard, Staff Sgt. Joseph P. Bellavia, Sgt. 1st Class William M. Bennett, Spc. Robert T. Benson, 1st Lt. David R. Bernstein, Spc. Joel L. Bertoldie, Staff Sgt. Stephen A. Bertolino Sr., Staff Sgt. Marvin Best, Cpl. Mark A. Bibby, Sgt. Benjamin W. Biskie, Sgt. Michael E. Bitz, Sgt. Jarrod W. Black, Chief Warrant Officer Michael T. Blaise, Capt. Ernesto M. Blanco, Command Sgt. Maj. James D. Blankenbecler, Spc. Joseph M. Blickenstaff, Spc. Nicholas H. Blodgett, Sgt. Trevor A. Blumberg, Lance Cpl. Jeremy L. Bohlman, Gunnery Sgt. Jeffrey E. Bohr Jr., Lance Cpl. Todd J. Bolding, Sgt. Dennis J. Boles, Sgt. 1st Class Craig A. Boling, Petty Officer 3rd Class Doyle W. Bollinger Jr, Sgt. 1st Class Kelly Bolor, Staff Sgt. Stevon A. Booker. Chief Warrant Officer Clarence E. Boone, Capt. John J. Boria, Pfc. Rachel K. Bosveld, Spc. Mathew G. Boule, Staff Sgt. Elvis Bourdon, Pvt. 1st Class Samuel R. Bowen, Staff Sgt. Hesley Box Jr., Pvt. Noah L. Boye, Lance Cpl. Aaron Boyles, Spc. Edward W. Brabazon, Cpl. Travis J. Bradach-Nall, Staff Sgt. Kenneth R. Bradley, Staff Sgt. Stacey C. Brandon, Spc. Artimus D. Brassfield, Pfc. Joel K. Brattain, Pfc. Jeffrey F. Braun, Chief Warrant Officer William I. Brennan, Staff Sgt. Steven H. Bridges, Spc. Kyle A. Brinlee, Staff Sgt. Cory W. Brooks, Sgt. Thomas F. Broomhead, Sgt. Andrew W. Brown, Tech. Sgt. Bruce E. Brown, Lance Cpl. Dominic C. Brown, Cpl. Henry L. Brown, Pfc. John E. Brown, Spc. Larry K. Brown, Spc. Lunsford B. Brown II, 1st Lt. Tyler H. Brown, Spc. Philip D. Brown, Pfc. Timmy R. Brown Jr., 1st Lt. Tyler H. Brown, Cpl. Andrew D. Brownfield, Petty Officer 3rd Class Nathan B. Bruckenthal, Lance Cpl. Cedric E. Bruns, 2nd Lt. Todd J. Bryant, Sgt. Ernest G. Bucklew, Spc. Roy Russell Buckley, Pfc. Paul J. Bueche, Lt. Col. Charles H. Buehring, Lance Cpl. Brian Rory Buesing, Sgt. George Edward Buggs, Spc. Joshua I. Bunch, Staff Sgt. Christopher Bunda, Staff Sgt. Michael L. Burbank, Staff Sgt. Richard A. Burdick, Spc. Alan J. Burgess, Lance Cpl. Jeffrey C. Burgess, Pfc. Tamario D. Burkett, Sgt. Travis L. Burkhardt. Pfc. David P. Burridge, Pfc. Jesse R. Buryj, Pfc. Charles E. Bush Jr., Pvt. Matthew D. Bush, Pfc. Damian S. Bushart, Sgt. Jacob L. Butler, Capt. Joshua T. Byers, Cpl. Juan C. Cabralbanuelos, Pfc. Cody S. Calavan, Sgt. Juan Calderon Jr, Sgt. Charles T. Caldwell, Spc. Nathaniel A. Caldwell, Staff Sgt. Joseph Camara, Spc. Michael C. Campbell, Sgt. Ryan M. Campbell, Spc. Marvin A. Camposiles, Spc. Isaac Campoy, Spc. Ervin Caradine Jr., Spc. Adolfo C. Carballo, Pfc. Michael M. Carey, Cpl. Richard P. Carl, Pfc. Ryan G. Carlock, Pfc. Benjamin R. Carman, Staff Sgt. Edward W. Carmen, Spc. Jocelyn L. Carrasquillo, Sgt. Frank T. Carvill, Capt. Christopher S. Cash, Spc. Ahmed A. Cason, Pfc. Jose Casanova, Lance Cpl. James A. Casper, Capt. Paul J. Cassidy, Staff Sgt. Roland L. Castro, Sgt. Sean K. Cataudella, Lance Cpl. Steven C. T. Cates, Pfc. Thomas D. Caughman, Staff Sgt. James W. Cawley, Spc. Jessica L. Cawvey, Petty Officer 3rd Class David A. Cedergren, Lance Cpl. Manuel A. Ceniceros, Cpl. Kemaphoom A. Chanawongse, Spc. James A. Chance III, Staff Sgt. William D. Chaney, Chief Warrant Officer Robert William Channell Jr., Spc. Jason K. Chappell, Pfc. Jonathan M. Cheatham, Sgt. Yohjyh L. Chen, Lance Cpl. Marcus M. Cherry, 2nd Lt. Therrel S. Childers, Spc. Andrew F. Chris. Staff Sgt. Thomas W. Christensen, Spc. Brett T. Christian, Spc. Arron R. Clark, Staff Sgt. Michael J. Clark, Lance Cpl. Donald J. Cline Jr., Pfc. Christopher R. Cobb, Lance Cpl. Kyle W. Codner, 1st Sgt. Christopher D. Coffin, Pvt. Bradli N. Coleman, Cpl. Gary B. Coleman, 2nd Lt. Benjamin J. Colgan, Sgt. Russell L. Collier, Sgt. 1st Class Gary L. Collins, Lance Cpl. Jonathan W. Collins, Chief Warrant Officer Lawrence S. Colton, Spc. Zeferino E. Colunga, Sgt. Robert E. Colvill, Sgt. Kenneth Conde Jr., Sgt. Timothy M. Conneway, Spc. Steven D. Conover, Capt. Aaron J. Contreras, Lance Cpl. Pedro Contreras, Sgt. Jason Cook, Command Sgt. Major Eric F. Cooke, Sgt. Dennis A. Corral, Chief Warrant Officer Alexander S. Coulter, 2nd Lt. Leonard M. Cowherd, Spc. Gregory A. Cox, Pfc. Ryan R. Cox, Lance Corporal Timothy R. Creager, Sgt. Michael T. Crockett, Staff Sgt. Ricky L. Crockett, Sgt. Brud J. Cronkrite, Lance Cpl. Kyle D. Crowley, Pvt. Rey D. Cuervo, Pfc. Kevin A. Cuming, Spc. Daniel Francis J. Cunningham, Staff Sgt. Darren J. Cunningham, Spc. Carl F. Curran, Cpl. Michael Edward Curtin, Staff Sgt. Christopher E. Cutchall, Pfc. Brian K. Cutter, Pfc. Anthony D. D'Agostino, Spc. Edgar P. Daclan Jr., Capt. Nathan S. Dalley, Lance Cpl. Andrew S. Dang, Spc. Danny B. Daniels II, Pvt. 1st Class Torey J. Dantzler, Pfc. Norman Darling, Capt. Eric B. Das. Spc. Shawn M. Davies, Pvt. Brandon L. Davis, Staff Sgt. Craig Davis, Staff Sgt. Donald N. Davis, Spc. Raphael S. Davis, Staff Sgt. Wilbert Davis, Staff Sgt. Jeffrey F. Dayton, Pvt. Jason L. Deibler, Spc. Lauro G. DeLeon Jr., Sgt. Felix M. Delgreco, Sgt. Jacob H. Demand, Staff Sgt. Mike A. Dennie, Spc. Darryl T. Dent, Pfc. Ervin Dervishi, Spc. Daniel A. Desens, Pfc. Michael R. Deuel, Pvt. Michael J. Deutsch, Petty Officer 3rd Class Christopher M. Dickerson, Cpl. Nicholas J. Dieruf, Spc. Jeremiah J. DiGiovanni, Spc. Jeremy M. Dimaranan, Spc. Michael A. Diraimondo, Spc. Anthony J. Dixon, Spc. Ryan E. Doltz, Sgt. Michael E. Dooley, Chief Warrant Officer Patrick D. Dorff, Petty Officer 2nd Class Trace W. Dossett, Lance Cpl. Scott E. Dougherty, 1st Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy, Pfc. Stephen P. Downing II, Spc. Chad H. Drake, Pvt. Jeremy L. Drexler, Cpl. Jason L. Dunham, Staff Sgt. Joe L. Dunigan Jr., Spc. Robert L. DuSang, Spc. William D. Dusenbery, 2nd Lt. Seth J. Dvorin, Petty Officer 2nd Class Jason B. Dwelley, Pfc. Sheldon R. Hawk Eagle, Staff Sgt. Richard S. Eaton Jr., Cpl. Christopher S. Ebert, Sgt. William C. Eckhart, Spc. Marshall L. Edgerton, Pfc. Shawn C. Edwards, Spc. Andrew C. Ehrlich, Sgt. Aaron C. Elandt, Spc. William R. Emanuel IV, Lance Cpl. Mark E. Engel, Spc. Peter G. Enos, Senior Airman Pedro I. Espaillat Jr. Pfc. Analaura Esparza Gutierrez, Sgt. Adam W. Estep, Pvt. Ruben Estrella-Soto, Pfc. David Evans, Cpl. Mark A. Evnin, Pfc. Jeremy Ricardo Ewing, Sgt. Justin L. Eyerly, Pvt. Jonathan I. Falaniko, Sgt. James D. Faulkner, Pfc. Raymond J. Faulstich Jr., Capt. Brian R. Faunce, Capt. Arthur L. Felder, 2nd Lt. Paul M. Felsberg, Spc. Rian C. Ferguson, Master Sgt. Richard L. Ferguson, Master Sgt. George A. Fernandez, Staff Sgt. Clint D. Ferrin, Spc. Jon P. Fettig, Cpl. Tyler R. Fey, Sgt. Jeremy J. Fischer, Sgt. Paul F. Fisher, Lance Cpl. Dustin R. Fitzgerald, Pfc. Jacob S. Fletcher, Spc. Thomas A. Foley III, Sgt. Timothy Folmar, Gunnery Sgt. Elia P. Fontecchio, Spc. Jason C. Ford, Capt. Travis A. Ford, Chief Warrant Officer Wesley C. Fortenberry, Sgt. 1st Class Bradley C. Fox, Spc. Craig S. Frank, Lance Cpl. Phillip E. Frank, Staff Sgt. Bobby C. Franklin, Pvt. Robert L. Frantz, Pvt. Benjamin L. Freeman, Sgt. David T. Friedrich, Spc. Luke P. Frist, Spc. Adam D. Froehlich, Pvt. Kurt R. Frosheiser, Pfc. Nichole M. Frye, Sgt. 1st Class Dan H. Gabrielson, Lance Cpl. Jonathan E. Gadsden, Capt. Richard J. Gannon II, Spc. Tomas Garces, Lance Cpl. Derek L. Gardner, Cpl. Jose A. Garibay, Spc. Joseph M. Garmback Jr., Sgt. Landis W. Garrison, Sgt. Justin W. Garvey, Spc. Israel Garza. 1st Sgt. Joe J. Garza, Pfc. Juan Guadalupe Garza Jr, Spc. Christopher D. Gelineau, Lance Cpl. Cory Ryan Guerin, Cpl. Christopher A. Gibson, Pvt. Jonathan L. Gifford, Pvt. Kyle C. Gilbert, Command Sgt. Maj. Cornell W. Gilmore, Petty Officer 3rd Class Ronald A. Ginther, Pfc. Jesse A. Givens, Spc. Michael T. Gleason, Cpl. Todd J. Godwin, 2nd Lt. James Michael Goins, Spc. Christopher A. Golby, Spc. David J. Goldberg, Lance Cpl. Shane L. Goldman, Cpl. Armando Ariel Gonzalez, Lance Cpl. Benjamin R. Gonzalez, Cpl. Jesus A. Gonzalez, Cpl. Jorge Gonzalez, Lance Cpl. Victor A. Gonzalez, Cpl. Bernard G. Gooden, Pfc. Gregory R. Goodrich, Sgt. 1st Class Richard S. Gottfried, Spc. Richard A. Goward, 2nd Lt. Jeffrey C. Graham, Sgt. Jamie A. Gray, Petty Officer 2nd Class Michael J. Gray, Sgt. Tommy L. Gray, Lance Cpl. Torrey L. Gray, Cpl. Jeffrey G. Green, Lt. Col. David S. Greene, Pfc. Devin J. Grella, Spc. Kyle A. Griffin, Staff Sgt. Patrick Lee Griffin Jr., Cpl. Sean R. Grilley, Pvt. Joseph R. Guerrera, Chief Warrant Officer Hans N. Gukeisen, Pfc. Christian D. Gurtner, Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, Pfc. Richard W. Hafer, Staff Sgt. Guy S. Hagy Jr., Spc. Charles G. Haight, Lance Cpl. Michael J. Halal, Pfc. Deryk L. Hallal, Pvt. Jesse M. Halling, Pfc. Andrew Halverson, Chief Warrant Officer Erik A. Halvorsen, Capt. Kimberly N. Hampton, Sgt. Michael S. Hancock. Pfc. Fernando B. Hannon, Sgt. Warren S. Hansen, Sgt. James W. Harlan, Sgt. Atanacio Haro Marin, Staff Sgt. William M. Harrell, Sgt. Foster L. Harrington, Pfc. Adam J. Harris, Sgt. Kenneth W. Harris Jr., Pfc. Torry D. Harris, Pfc. Leroy Harris-Kelly, Pfc. John D. Hart, Sgt. Nathaniel Hart, Sgt. 1st Class David A. Hartman, Sgt. Jonathan N. Hartman, Staff Sgt. Stephen C. Hattamer, Staff Sgt. Omer T. Hawkins II, Sgt. Timothy L. Hayslett, Chief Warrant Officer Brian D. Hazelgrove, Sgt. David M. Heath, Spc. Justin W. Hebert, Pfc. Damian L. Heidelberg, Pfc. Raheen Tyson Heighter, Spc. Jeremy M. Heines, Staff Sgt. Brian R. Hellerman, Staff Sgt. Terry W. Hemingway, Cpl. Matthew C. Henderson, 1st Lt. Robert L. Henderson II, Staff Sgt. Kenneth W. Hendrickson, Sgt. Jack T. Hennessy, Spc. Joshua J. Henry, Pfc. Clayton W. Henson, Spc. Armando Hernandez, Spc. Joseph F. Herndon II, Pfc. Edward J. Herrgott, Spc. Jacob B. Herring, Sgt. 1st Class Gregory B. Hicks, Spc. Christopher K. Hill, Spc. Stephen D. Hiller, Sgt. Keicia M. Hines, Pfc. Melissa J. Hobart, Sgt. Nicholas M. Hodson, Sgt. 1st Class James T. Hoffman, Spc. Christopher J. Holland, Staff Sgt. Aaron N. Holleyman, Staff Sgt. Lincoln D. Hollinsaid, Spc. James J. Holmes, Spc. Jeremiah J. Holmes, Cpl. Terry Holmes, Airman 1st Class Antoine J. Holt, Pfc. Sean Horn, Master Sgt. Kelly L. Hornbeck. Staff Sgt. Jeremy R. Horton, Capt. Andrew R. Houghton, Lance Cpl Gregory C. Howman, Pfc. Bert E. Hoyer, Spc. Corey A. Hubbell, Pfc. Christopher E. Hudson, 1st Lt. Doyle M. Hufstedler, Staff Sgt. Jamie L. Huggins, Spc. Eric R. Hull, Cpl Barton R. Humlhanz, Lance Cpl. Justin T. Hunt, Spc. Simeon Hunte, 1st Lt. Joshua C. Hurley, Lance Cpl. James B. Huston Jr., Lance Cpl. Seth Huston, Pvt. Nolen R. Hutchings, Pfc. Ray J. Hutchinson, Pfc. Gregory P. Huxley Jr., Spc. Benjamin W. Isenberg, Spc. Craig S. Ivory, Pfc. Leslie D. Jackson, Spc. Morgen N. Jacobs, Chief Warrant Officer Scott Jamar, Cpl. Evan T. James, 2nd Lt. Luke S. James, Spc. William A. Jeffries, Petty Officer 2nd Class Robert B. Jenkins, Sgt. Troy David Jenkins, Spc. Darius T. Jennings, Pfc. Ryan M. Jerabek, Sgt. Linda C. Jimenez, 1st Lt. Oscar Jimenez, Capt. Christopher B. Johnson, Spc. David W. Johnson, Pfc. Howard Johnson II, Spc. John P. Johnson, Pfc. Markus J. Johnson, Spc. Maurice J. Johnson, Hospital Corpsman 3rd Class Michael Vann Johnson Jr., Spc. Nathaniel H. Johnson, Staff Sgt. Paul J. Johnson, Chief Warrant Officer, Pfc. Rayshawn S. Johnson, Pvt. Devon D. Jones, Capt. Gussie M. Jones, Staff Sgt. Raymond E. Jones Jr., Spc. Rodney A. Jones, Lt. Kylan A. Jones- Huffman, Sgt. Curt E. Jordan Jr., Sgt. Jason D. Jordan. Staff Sgt. Phillip A. Jordan, Cpl. Forest J. Jostes, Spc. Spencer T. Karol, Spc. Michael G. Karr Jr., Spc. Mark J. Kasecky, 1st Lt. Jeffrey J. Kaylor, Spc. Chad L. Keith, Lance Cpl. Quinn A. Keith, Lance Cpl. Bryan P. Kelly, Cpl. Brian Kennedy, Chief Warrant Officer Kyran E. Kennedy, Staff Sgt. Morgan D. Kennon, 1st Lt. Christopher J. Kenny, Spc. Jonathan R. Kephart, Cpl. Dallas L. Kerns, Chief Warrant Officer Erik C. Kesterson, Capt. Humayun S. M. Khan, Spc. James M. Kiehl, Pt. Jeungjin Na Kim, Staff Sgt. Kevin C. Kimmerly. Spc. Levi B. Kinchen, Staff Sgt. Lester O. Kinney II, Pfc. David M. Kirchhoff, Staff Sgt. Charles A. Kiser, Lance Cpl. Nicholas Brian Kleiboeker, Spc. John K. Klinesmith Jr., Sgt. Floyd G. Knighten Jr., Petty Officer 3rd Class Eric L. Knott, Spc. Joshua L. Knowles, Staff Sgt. Lance J. Koenig, Cpl. Kevin T. Kolm, Pfc. Martin W. Kondor, Chief Warrant Patrick W. Kordsmeier, Capt. Edward J. Korn, Sgt. Bradley S. Korthaus, Cpl. Jakub Henryk Kowalik, Sgt. Elmer C. Krause, Pvt. Dustin L. Kreider, Pfc. Bradley G. Kritzer, Capt. John F. Kurth, Sgt. 1st Class William W. Labadie Jr., Sgt. Joshua S. Ladd, Sgt. Michael V. Lalush, Lance Cpl. Alan Dinh Lam, Spc. Charles R. Lamb, Spc. James I. Lambert III, Pfc. James P. Lambert, Sgt. Jonathan W. Lambert, Capt. Andrew David Lamont, Staff Sgt. Sean G. Landrus, Gunnery Sgt. Shawn A. Lane. Pfc. Moises A. Langhorst, Spc. Tracy L. Laramore, Spc. Scott Q. Larson Jr., Chief Warrant Officer Matthew C. Laskowski, Staff Sgt. William T. Latham, Pfc. Karina S. Lau, Cpl. Jeffrey D. Lawrence, Staff Sgt. Mark A. Lawton, Lance Cpl. Travis J. Layfield, Staff Sgt. Rene Ledesma, 2nd Lt. Ryan Leduc, Cpl. Bum R. Lee, Pfc. Ken W. Leisten, Staff Sgt. Jerome Lemon, Spc. Cedric L. Lennon, Pfc. Farad K. Letufuga, Spc. Justin W. Linden, Spc. Roger G. Ling, Spc. Joseph L. Lister, Staff Sgt. Nino D. Livaudais, Sgt. Dale T. Lloyd, Sgt. Daniel J. Londono, Spc. Ryan P. Long, Spc. Zachariah W. Long, Pfc. Duane E. Longstreth, Sgt. Edgar E. Lopez, Lance Cpl. Juan Lopez, Sgt. Richard M. Lord, Staff Sgt. David L. Loyd, Capt. Robert L. Lucero, Pfc. Jason C. Ludiam, Lance Cpl. Jacob R. Lugo, Pfc. Jason N. Lynch, Pfc. Christopher D. Mabry, Lance Cpl. Gregory E. MacDonald, Lance Cpl. Cesar F. Machado-Olmos, Pfc. Vorn J. Mack, Lance Cpl. Joseph B. Maglione, Spc. William J. Maher III, Staff Sgt. Toby W. Mallet, Chief Warrant Officer Ian D. Manuel, Pfc. Pablo Manzano, Pfc. Lyndon A. Marcus Jr., Staff Sgt. Paul C. Mardis Jr., Cpl. Douglas Jose Marencoreyes, Master Sgt. Jude C. Mariano, Spc. James E. Marshall, Sgt. 1st Class John W. Marshall, Pfc. Ryan A. Martin, Staff Sgt. Stephen G. Martin. Sgt. Francisco Martinez, Pfc. Francisco A. Martinez Flores, Pfc. Jesse J. Martinez, Spc. Michael A. Martinez, Pfc. Oscar A. Martinez, Spc. Jacob D. Martir, Sgt. Arthur S. Mastrapa, Chief Warrant Officer Johnny Villareal Mata, Lance Cpl. Ramon Mateo, Spc. Clint Richard Matthews, Lance Cpl. Ramon Mateo, Cpl. Matthew E. Matula, Staff Sgt. Donald C. May Jr, Pfc. Joseph P. Mayek, Spc. Patrick R. McCaffrey Sr., Lance Cpl. Joseph C. MacCarthy, Pfc. Ryan M. McCauley, Cpl. Brad P. McCormick, 1st Lt. Erik. S. McCrae, Spc. Donald R. McCune, Spc. Dustin K. McGaugh, Pfc. Holly J. McGeogh, Sgt. Brian D. McGinnis, Spc. Michael A. McGlothin. Petty Officer 2nd Class Scott R. McHugh, Hospitalman Joshua McIntosh, Spc. David M. McKeever, Spc. Eric S. McKinley, Pvt. Robert L. McKinley, Staff Sgt. Don S. McMahan, Sgt. Heath A. McMillin, 1st Lt. Brian M. McPhillips, Cpl. Jesus Martin Antonio Medellin, Spc. Irving Medina, Spc. Kenneth A. Melton, Cpl. Jaygee Meluat, Petty Officer 3rd Class Fernando A. Mendezaceves, Gunnery Sgt. Joseph Menusa, Staff Sgt. Eddie E. Menyweather, Spc. Gil Mercado, Spc. Michael M. Merila, Spc. Christopher A. Merville, Sgt. Daniel K. Methvin, Pfc. Jason M. Meyer, Sgt. Eliu A. Miersandoval, Spc. Michael G. Mihalakis, Pfc. Matthew G. Milczark, Cpl. Jason David Mileo, Pfc. Anthony S. Miller, Pfc. Bruce Miller Jr., Staff Sgt. Frederick L. Miller Jr. Sgt. 1st Class Marvin L. Miller, Sgt. Joseph Minucci II, Sgt. First Class Troy L. Miranda, Spc. George A. Mitchell, Sgt. Keman L. Mitchell, Sgt. Michael W. Mitchell, Spc. Sean R. Mitchell, Pfc. Jesse D. Mizener, Staff Sgt. Jorge A. Molinabautista, Pfc. Anthony W. Monroe, 1st Lt. Adam G. Mooney, Lance Cpl. Jason William Moore, Pfc. Stuart W. Moore, Sgt. Travis A. Moothart, Spc. Jose L. Mora, Sgt. Melvin Y. Mora, Pfc. Michael A. Mora, Master Sgt. Kevin N. Morehead, Capt. Brent L. Morel, Petty Officer 3rd Class David J. Moreno, Sgt. Gerardo Moreno, Spc. Jaime Moreno, Pfc. Luis A. Moreno, Spc. Dennis B. Morgan, Staff Sgt. Richard L. Morgan Jr., Pfc. Geoffery S. Morris, Pfc. Ricky A. Morris Jr., Lance Cpl. Nicholas B. Morrison, Sgt. Shawna M. Morrison, Sgt. Keelan L. Moss, Spc. Clifford L. Moxley Jr., Sgt. Cory R. Mracek, Sgt. Rodney A. Murray, Sgt. Krisna Nachampassak, Spc. Paul T. Nakamura, Spc. Nathan W. Nakis, Pvt. Kenneth A. Nalley, Chief Warrant Officer Christopher G. Nason, Maj. Kevin G. Nave, Spc. Rafael L. Navea, Spc. Charles L. Neeley, Staff Sgt. Paul M. Neff II, Pfc. Gavin L. Neighbor, Spc. Joshua M. Neusche, Cpl. Dominique J. Nicolas, Lance Cpl. Joseph L. Nice, Spc. Isaac Michael Nieves, Lance Cpl. Patrick R. Nixon, Spc. Allen Nolan, Spc. Marcos O. Nolasco. Sgt. William J. Normandy, Spc. Joseph C. Norquist, 1st Lt. Leif E. Nott, Staff Sgt. Todd E. Nunes, Spc. David T. Nutt, Cpl. Mick R. Nygardbekowsky, Spc. Donald S. Oak Jr., Pfc. Branden F. Oberleitner, Lance Cpl. Patrick T. O'Day, Spc. Charles E. Odums II, Spc. Ramon C. Ojeda, Cpl. Terry Holmes Ordonez, Cpl. Brian Oliveira, Spc. Justin B. Onwordi, Spc. Richard P. Orengo, Lt. Col. Kim S. Orlando, Lance Cpl. Eric J. Orlowski, 1st Lt. Osbaldo Orozco, Pfc. Cody J. Orr, Staff Sgt. Billy J. Orton, Sgt. Pamela G. Osbourne, Lance Cpl. Deshon E. Otey, Pfc. Kevin C. Ott, Sgt. Michael G. Owen, Lance Cpl. David Edward Owens Jr, Sgt. Fernando Padilla- Ramirez, Pvt. Shawn D. Pahnke, Spc. Gabriel T. Palacios, Capt. Eric T. Paliwoda, 1st Lt. Joshua M. Palmer, Staff Sgt. Dale A. Panchot, Pfc. Daniel R. Parker, Pfc. James D. Parker, Pfc. Kristen Parker, Cpl. Tommy L. Parker Jr., Sgt. Harvey E. Parkerson III, Sgt. David B. Parson, Staff Sgt. Esau G. Patterson Jr., Master Sgt. William L. Payne, Sgt. Michael F. Pedersen, Staff Sgt. Abraham D. Penamedina, Spc. Brian H. Penisten, Sgt. Ross A. Pennanen, Staff Sgt. Gregory V. Pennington, Pfc. Geoffrey Perez, Staff Sgt. Hector R. Perez, Sgt. Joel Perez, Spc. Jose A. Perez III, Pfc. Luis A. Perez, Lance Cpl. Nicholas Perez. Spc. Wilfredo Perez Jr., Petty Officer 1st Class Michael J. Pernaselli, Staff Sgt. David S. Perry, Pfc. Charles C. Persing, Staff Sgt. Dustin W. Peters, Spc. Alyssa R. Peterson, Staff Sgt. Brett J. Petriken, Staff Sgt. James L. Pettaway Jr., Staff Sgt. Erickson H. Petty, Pfc. Jerrick M. Petty, Lt. Col. Mark P. Phelan, Pfc. Chance R. Phelps, Sgt. 1st Class Gladimir Philippe, Sgt. Ivory L. Phipps, Capt. Pierre E. Piche, Pfc. Lori Piestewa, Capt. Dennis L. Pintor, Spc. James H. Pirtle, Pfc. Jason T. Poindexter, 2nd Lt. Frederick E. Pokorney Jr., Staff Sgt. Andrew R. Pokorny, Spc. Justin W. Pollard, Spc. Larry E. Polley Jr., Sgt. Darrin K. Potter, Pfc. David L. Potter, Sgt. Christopher S. Potts, Spc. James E. Powell, Lance Cpl. Caleb J. Powers, Cpl. Dean P. Pratt, Pfc. James E. Prevete, Pvt. Kelley S. Prewitt, Sgt. Tyler D. Prewitt, Pfc. James W. Price, 1st Lt. Timothy E. Price, Lance Cpl. Mathew D. Puckett, Sgt. Jaror C. Puello- Coronado, Staff Sgt. Michael B. Quinn, Staff Sgt. Richard P. Ramey, Sgt. Christopher Ramirez, Spc. Eric U. Ramirez, Pfc. William C. Ramirez, Pfc. Christopher Ramos, Spc. Tamarra J. Ramos, Pfc. Brandon Ramsey, Pvt. Carson J. Ramsey, Sgt. Edmond L. Randle, Pfc. Cleston C. Raney, Capt. Gregory A. Ratzlaff, Spc. Rel A. Ravago IV, Spc. Omead H. Razani. Spc. Brandon M. Read, Pfc. Christopher J. Reed, Pfc. Ryan E. Reed, Sgt. Tatjana Reed, Staff Sgt. Aaron T. Reese, Spc. Jeremy F. Regnier, Sgt. 1st Class Randall S. Rehn, Sgt. Brendon C. Reiss, Staff Sgt. George S. Rentschler, Sgt. Sean C. Reynolds, Lance Cpl. Rafael Reynosa- Suarez, Sgt. Yadir G. Reynoso, Cpl. Demetrius L. Rice, Sgt. Ariel Rico, Spc. Jeremy L. Ridlen, Pfc. Diego Fernando Rincon, Cpl. Steven A. Rintamaki, Sgt. Duane R. Rios, Capt. Russell B. Rippetoe, Pfc. Henry C. Risner, Sgt. 1st Class Jose A. Rivera, Cpl. John T. Rivero, Spc. Frank K. Rivers Jr., Sgt. Thomas D. Robbins, Sgt. Todd J. Robbins, Lance Cpl. Anthony P. Roberts, Lance Cpl. Bob W. Roberts, Spc. Robert D. Roberts, Staff Sgt. Joseph E. Robsky, Sgt. Moses D. Rocha, Pfc. Marlin T. Rockhold, Pfc. Jose Francis Gonzalez Rodriguez, Cpl. Robert M. Rodriguez, Spc. Philip G. Rogers, Sgt. 1st Class Robert E. Rooney, Cpl. Randal Kent Rosacker, Staff Sgt. Victor A. Rosales, Pfc. Richard H. Rosas, Sgt. Scott C. Rose, Sgt. Thomas C. Rosenbaum, Sgt. Randy S. Rosenberg, Spc. Marco D. Ross, Sgt. Lawrence A. Roukey, Capt. Alan Rowe, Spc. Brandon J. Rowe, Sgt. Roger D. Rowe, 2nd Lt. Jonathan D. Rozier, Spc. Isela Rubalcava, Pfc. Aaron J. Rusin, Sgt. John W. Russell. 1st Lt. Timothy Louis Ryan, Chief Warrant Officer Scott A. Saboe, Spc. Rasheed Sahib, Cpl. Rudy Salas, Cpl. William I. Salazar, 1st Lt. Edward M. Saltz, Capt. Benjamin W. Sammis, Spc. Sonny G. Sampler, Spc. Gregory P. Sanders, Pfc. Leroy Sandoval Jr., Spc. Matthew J. Sandri, Staff Sgt. Barry Sanford, 1st Lt. Neil Anthony Santoriello, Spc. Jonathan J. Santos, Pfc. Brandon R. Sapp, Staff Sgt. Cameron B. Sarno, Staff Sgt. Scott D. Sather, Lance Cpl. Jeremiah E. Savage, Capt. Robert C. Scheetz Jr., Spc. Justin B. Schmidt, Spc. Jeremiah W. Schmunk, Pfc. Sean M. Schneider, Cpl. Dustin H. Schrage, Maj. Mathew E. Schram, Lance Cpl. Brian K. Schramm, Spc. Christian C. Schulz, Master Sgt. David A. Scott, Pfc. Kerry D. Scott, Spc. Stephen M. Scott, Spc. Marc S. Seiden, Capt. Christopher Scott Seifert, Pfc. Dustin M. Sekula, Lance Cpl. Matthew K. Serio, Sgt. Juan M. Serrano, Staff Sgt. Wentz Jerome Henry Shanaberger III, Spc. Jeffrey R. Shaver, Maj. Kevin M. Shea, Spc. Casey Sheehan, Sgt. Kevin F. Sheehan, Sgt. Daniel Michael Shepherd, Sgt. Alan D. Sherman, Lt. Col. Anthony L. Sherman, Pfc. Harry N. Shondee Jr., Lance Cpl. Brad S. Shuder, Capt. James A. Shull, Pfc. Kenneth L. Sickels, Lance Cpl. Dustin L. Sides, Cpl. Erik H. Silva, Pvt. Sean A. Silva, Sgt. Leonard D. Simmons. Pfc. Charles M. Sims, Lance Cpl. John T. Sims Jr., Spc. Uday Singh, Spc. Aaron J. Sissel, Pfc. Christopher A. Sisson, Pfc. Nicholas M. Skinner, Petty Officer 3rd Class David Sisung, 1st Lt. Brian D. Slavenas, Pvt. Brandon Ulysses Sloan, Lance Cpl. Richard P. Slocum, Lance Cpl. Thomas J. Slocum, Pfc. Corey L. Small, Sgt. Keith L. Smette, Capt. Benedict J. Smith, Sgt. Benjamin K. Smith, Pfc. Brandon C. Smith, 2nd Lt. Brian D. Smith, Chief Warrant Officer Bruce A. Smith, Cpl. Darrell L. Smith, 1st Sgt. Edward Smith, Chief Warrant Officer Eric A. Smith, Pfc. Jeremiah D. Smith, Lance Cpl. Matthew R. Smith, Lance Cpl. Michael J. Smith Jr., Spc. Orenthial J. Smith, Sgt. 1st Class Paul R. Smith, Capt. Christopher F. Soelzer, Sgt. Roderic A. Solomon, Cpl. Adrian V. Soltau, Maj. Charles R. Soltes Jr., Sgt. Skipper Soram, Pfc. Armando Soriano, Cpl. Tomas Sotelo Jr., Pfc. Kenneth C. Souslin, Spc. Philip I. Spakosky, Pfc. Jason L. Sparks, Cpl. Michael R. Speer, Staff Sgt. Trevor Spink, Maj. Christopher J. Splinter, Sgt. Marvin R. Sprayberry III, Pvt. Bryan N. Spry, Sgt. Maj. Michael B. Stack, Pfc. Nathan E. Stahl, 1st Lt. Andrew K. Stern, Staff Sgt. Robert A. Stever, Maj. Gregory Stone, 2nd Lt. Matthew R. Stovall, Pfc. William R. Strange, Sgt. Kirk Allen Straseskie, Pfc. Brandon C. Sturdy. Spc. William R. Sturges Jr., Spc. Paul J. Sturino, Lance Cpl. Jesus A. Suarez Del Solar, Spc. Joseph D. Suell, Spc. John R. Sullivan, Spc. Narson B. Sullivan, Lance Cpl. Vincent M. Sullivan, Staff Sgt. Michael J. Sutter, Pfc. Ernest Harold Sutphin, Chief Warrant Officer Sharon T. Swartworth, Spc. Thomas J. Sweet II, Staff Sgt. Christopher W. Swisher, Maj. Paul R. Syverson III, Sgt. Patrick S. Tainsh, Sgt. DeForest L. Talbert, Sgt. 1st Class Linda Ann Tarango-Griess, Spc. Christopher M. Taylor, Maj. Mark D. Taylor, Capt. John R. Teal, Staff Sgt. Riayan A. Tejeda, Lance Cpl. Jason Andrew Tetrault, Spc. Joseph C. Thibodeaux, Master Sgt. Thomas R. Thigpen Sr., Cpl. Jesse L. Thiry, Sgt. Carl Thomas, Staff Sgt. Kendall Thomas, Spc. Kyle G. Thomas, Sgt. Anthony O. Thompson, Spc. Jarrett B. Thompson, Sgt. Humberto F. Timoteo, Capt. John E. Tipton, Pfc. Joshua K. Titcomb, Spc. Brandon T. Titus, Spc. Brandon S. Tobler, Sgt. Lee D. TodacheeneCpl. John H. Todd III, Sgt. Nicholas A. Tomko, Master Sgt. Timothy Toney, Pfc. George D. Torres, Lance Cpl. Michael S. Torres, 2nd Lt. Richard Torres, Spc. Ramon Reyes Torres, Lance Cpl. Elias Torrez III, Sgt. Michael L. Tosto, Spc. Richard K. Trevithick, Pfc. Andrew L. Tuazon, Staff Sgt. Roger C. Turner Jr., Pvt. Scott M. Tyrrell, 2nd Lt. Andre D. Tyson, Spc. Eugene A. Uhl III, Lance Cpl. Drew M. Uhles. Rick A. Ulbright, Pfc. Daniel P. Unger, Spc. Robert Oliver Unruh, 1st Sgt. Ernest E. Utt, Sgt. Michael A. Uvanni, Staff Sgt. Gary A. Vaillant, Lance Cpl. Ruben Valdez Jr., Sgt. Melissa Valles, Spc. Allen J. Vandayburg, Spc. Josiah H. Vandertulip, Chief Warrant Officer Brian K. Van Dusen, Lance Cpl. John J. Vangyzen IV, Lance Cpl. Gary F. Van Leuven, Staff Sgt. Mark D. Vasquez, Spc. Frances M. Vega, 1st Lt. Michael W. Vega, Staff Sgt. Paul A. Velazquez, Cpl. David M. Vicente, Sgt. 1st Class Joselito O. Villanueva, Cpl. Scott M. Vincent, Staff Sgt. Kimberly A. Voelz, Staff Sgt. Michael S. Voss, Spc. Thai Vue, Lance Cpl. Michael B. Wafford, Sgt. Christopher A. Wagener, Sgt. Gregory L. Wahl, Staff Sgt. Allan K. Walker, Sgt. Jeffery C. Walker, Sgt. Donald Ralph Walters, Pvt. Jason M. Ward, Pfc. Nachez Washalanta, Lance Cpl. Christopher B. Wasser, Pvt. David L. Waters, Staff Sgt. Kendall Damon Waters-Bey, Maj. William R. Watkins III, Petty Officer 2nd Class Christopher E. Watts, Chief Warrant Officer Aaron A. Weaver, Spc. Michael S. Weger, Staff Sgt. David J. Weisenburg, Spc. Douglas J. Weismantle, Pfc. Michael Russell Creighton Weldon, Lance Cpl. Larry L. Wells, Chief Warrant Officer Stephen M. Wells, Spc. Jeffrey M. Wershow, Spc. Christopher J. Rivera Wesley, Sgt. James G. West, 1st Lt. Alexander E. Wetherbee, Spc. Donald L. Wheeler, Sgt. Mason Douglas Whetstone, Pfc. Marquis A. Whitaker. Staff Sgt. Aaron Dean White, Lt. Nathan D. White, Sgt. Steven W. White, Lance Cpl. William W. White, Pfc. Joey D. Whitener ,Spc. Chase R. Whitman, Spc. Michael J. Wiesemann, Cpl. Joshua S. Wilfong ,Sgt. Eugene Williams, Lance Cpl. Michael J. Williams, Spc. Michael L. Williams, Sgt. Taft V. Williams ,1st Lt. Charles L. Wilkins III, Sgt. 1st Class Christopher R. Willoughby, Spc. Dana N. Wilson, Command Sgt. Maj. Jerry L. Wilson, Staff Sgt. Joe N. Wilson, Lance Cpl. Lamont N. Wilson, Lance Cpl. Nicholas Wilt, 1st Lt. Ronald Winchester, Spc. Trevor A. Wine, Lance Cpl. William J. Wiscowiche, Spc. Robert A. Wise, Spc. Michelle M. Witmer, Pfc. Owen D. Witt, Spc. James R. Wolf, 2nd Lt. Jeremy L. Wolfe, Sgt. Elijah Tai Wah Wong, Sgt. Brian M. Wood, Capt. George A. Wood, Spc. Michael R. Woodliff, Spc. James C. Wright, Pfc. Jason G. Wright, 2nd Lt. John T. Wroblewski, Lance Cpl. Daniel R. Wyatt, Pfc. Stephen E. Wyatt, Sgt. Michael E. Yashinski, Sgt. Henry Ybarra III, Pfc. Rodricka A. Youmans, Sgt. Ryan C. Young, Lance Cpl. Andrew J. Zabierek, Spc. Nicholas J. Zangara, Spc. Mark Anthony Zapata, Pfc. Nicholaus E. Zimmer, Cpl. Ian T. Zook, Lance Cpl. Robert P. Zurheide Jr. May they rest in peace. And may they forgive us someday. -- Michael Moore You have received this email because you are subscribed to Michael Moore's email list at www.michaelmoore.com. To prevent mailbox filters from deleting mailings from Michael Moore, add maillist@michaelmoore.com to your address book. To remove yourself from this mailing, please click here ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:31:57 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Unhappy Democrats Must Wait to Get Into Canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Published on Thursday, November 4, 2004 by Reuters Unhappy Democrats Must Wait to Get Into Canada by David Ljunggren OTTAWA - Disgruntled Democrats seeking a safe Canadian haven after President Bush won Tuesday's election should not pack their bags just yet. Canadian officials made clear on Wednesday that any U.S. citizens so fed up with Bush that they want to make a fresh start up north would have to stand in line like any other would-be immigrants -- a wait that can take up to a year. "Let me tell you -- if they're hard-working honest people, there's a process, and let them apply," Immigration Minister Judy Sgro told Reuters. Asked whether American applicants would get special treatment, she replied: "No, they'll join the crowd like all the other people who want to come to Canada." There are anywhere from 600,000 to a million Americans living in Canada, which leans more to the left than the United States and has traditionally favored the Democrats over the Republicans. But statistics show a gradual decline in U.S. citizens coming to work and live in Canada, which has an ailing health care system and relatively high levels of personal taxation. Government officials, real estate brokers and Democrat activists said that while some Americans might talk about moving to Canada rather than living with a new Bush administration, they did not expect a mass influx. "It's one thing to say 'I'm leaving for Canada' and quite another to actually find a job here and wonder about where you're going to live and where the children are going to go to school," said one official. Roger King of the Toronto-based Democrats Abroad group said he had heard nothing about a possible exodus of party members. "I imagine most committed Democrats will want to stay in the United States and continue being politically active there," he said. Americans seeking to immigrate can apply to become permanent citizens of Canada, a process that often takes a year. Becoming a full citizen takes a further three years. The other main way to move north on a long-term basis is to find a job, which in all cases requires a work permit. This takes from four to six months to come through. Statistics show the number of U.S. workers entering Canada dropped to 15,789 in 2002 from 21,627 in 2000. In 1981 some 10,030 Americans gained permanent residency, compared to 5,541 in 2003. Asked if there had been signs of increased U.S. interest, Sgro said: "Not yet, but we'll see tomorrow." The Canadian foreign ministry said there had been no increase in hits on the Washington embassy's immigration Web site, while housing brokers doubted they would see a surge in U.S. business. "Canada's always open and welcoming to Americans who want to relocate here, but we don't think it would be a trend or movement," said Gino Romanese of Royal Lepage Residential Real Estate Services. Those wishing to move to Canada could always take a risk and claim refugee status -- the path chosen earlier this year by two U.S. deserters who opposed the Iraq war. "Anybody who enters Canada who claims refugee status will be provided with a work permit...it doesn't matter what country they're from," said an immigration ministry spokeswoman. Refugee cases are handled by special boards, which can take months to decide whether to admit applicants. The rulings can be appealed and opposition politicians complain some people ordered deported have been in Canada for 10 years or more. With additional reporting by Randall Palmer in Ottawa and Larissa Liepins in Toronto Copyright 2004 Reuters Ltd -- --------------------------- http://www.afghanrestaurant.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:04:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: a number of obs. abt the election MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've made a few posts on my blog to connect politics, religion, and my writing -- which are of course all connected -- but I'm also on deadline and have a book coming out (and the oppt'y to make some changes to Da3!!!) Alan -- how is belief an action? I would like to point out that the number of Christian fundamentalists in this country is tiny. The number of regularly-churchgoing Protestants is miniscule. The number of observant Catholics is decreasing. I would like to point out that the "morality vote" figures are from the same type of freaking exit polls which were so inaccurate. I would like to point out that those polls show that "terrorism" and Iraq where nearly statistically ties with this amorphous concern. We're talking a percentage point and a lot of political and media hype and rhetoric here. Defense has been "owned" by the Republicans ever since St. Reagan's deficit spending, Star Wars, and Iran Contra. The Catholic church comes out against almost all Catholic politicians who are not rabidly anti-abortion. I would like to point out that Kerry is divorced, and so is not a communicant any longer. Didn't Kennedy have problems? I also think I remember a time in middle America that John Kerry -- and most of middle America -- chose not to remember, when KKK still burned just as many crosses on Catholics yards. After all, "Katholics" is one of the Ks. Hello, southern white conservative political constituency. When my dad and his friends ran for political office in central Illinois *it was actually a concern that the campaigns had to address* that the Pope would be running the sad little town I grew up in. The church has chosen to ally with anti-Catholics to pursue a radically anti-birth control, anti-fertility treatment stance. Yeah, "everyone forgets" "pro-life" is against hormone treatments and in vitro. The one deeply (divorced!) Catholic Mexican-American Bush voter I know voted pro-life, not Bush, but he still doesn't realize that Mel Gibson isn't Roman Catholic, but a member of a fringe Christian cult with a confusing name. Most pro-choice movements have shown that significant numbers of women vote and give money against the stated positions of male religious leaders of their religions. But significant numbers of women voted for Bush. I might add that the fact that most of the Bush voters I know do not regularly attend church and their beliefs in general are convenient. Methodists who are quasi-professional country line dancers and consider margueritas not to be an alcoholic beverage. Those who, like Bush, paid for abortions for knocked up girlfriends. This is why the revival and the rebirth is so popular -- feels good, lasts only until they strike the tents. Gotta go, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:30:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today In-Reply-To: <20041104202716.422E814860@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Or three million people turning their gaze to Buddha. Or three million people deciding it doesn't matter who you love. Or three million people 18-24 turning in their voter registration cards. The act of writing is a political move and politically motivated. Solemnity's regurgitation. Let's watch two towers fall, and ask if the spectacle is an illusion of solidarity. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of furniture_ press Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 3:27 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today the act of writing is a political move and politically motivated. i'm not at all moved by the solemnity's regurgitation. we do all we can do. we've done all we can do. if more than half the country has its asses pulled by the puppet, because they can't think for themselves, perhaps it is time to re-evaluate just what we're doing. activism on a global scale CANNOT WORK. it's an illusion of solidarity. what schmuck in bolivia or in italy is going to help us liberate ourselves? it's an illusion. perhaps we should listen to john cage (and i am paraphrasing): perhaps it is time to leave behind the idea of activism and start acting individually towards a collective goal i.e. a change of lifestyle is more potent politically than an action in the streets. think: one million people giving up, say, their car... instead of one million people driving to nyc to protest the oily regime. one million less cars on the road? ten million gallons less of gasoline sales? the right will remain strong only because folks say "no more war" or "no more bush" they can't remain strong if we decide to say fuck off we don't need your product. lifestyle changes change the world. a protest-the illusion-is a canvas for those in power to paint their power more vivid. consumer culture-not moral majority-is the threat. if we want to continue aborting babies in favor of women's rights, then prepare to eat that baby-mere recycling. is that the kind of humor we want? wheat grass, not hash. -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:45:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: ::spellbound speculations:: ::time travel:: on ::fait accompli:: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com *"Shoddy Wares"- Theodore Dreiser chimes in from 1914 **Cooperation and Destiny: psychoanalytic speculations re: a nation threatened and mesmerized by religious cults ** A Day In The Life Of An Ongoing Apocalypse: poetic, consoling words from Susan Smith Nash ***Links: ::A message from Mexico: Heriberto Yepez ::Post-Election Blues: A chat with Tim Peterson :::Tonight at the Bowery Poetry Club at 8pm (308 Bowery North of Houston in Manhattan) Drew Gardner's Poetics Orchestra Hope you can come welcome to ::fait accompli: http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:33:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "E. Tracy Grinnell" Subject: Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs & Litmus Press Reading Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Portable Press at YoYo Labs & Litmus Press Celebrate! Thursday, November 11th, 7pm Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West, 7th Floor New York, NY (212) 691-6590 www.twc.org=20 =20 Editors Brenda Iijima of Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs and E. Tracy Grinnell of Litmus Press invite you to an evening of readings celebrating some of ou= r recent & forthcoming authors. David Cameron (Several Ghouls Hardly Worth Mentioning, Portable Press, 2003), Allison Cobb (Cell, Portable Press, 2004), Jennifer Hayashida (translator, Inner China by Eva Sj=F6din, Litmus, forthcoming 2005), Jack Kimball (Art in America, Portable Press, 2004), Kerri Sonnenberg (The Mudra, Litmus, 2004), Mark Tardi (Euclid Shudders, Litmus, 2003), and Africa Wayne (Tiny Pony, Portable Press, 2004) will read from their works.=20 www.litmuspress.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 04:30:07 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit darkness surround us, bob nothing more to say... 4:00...po is some blanket...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 22:36:31 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Finish Counting the Votes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/04 7:13:23 PM, florafair@YAHOO.COM writes: << What is more alarming than anything is that a majority of voters chose Bush based on issues of morality. What are they talking about? Is being afraid of science, wreckless with the environment, backwards with women's rights, ignorant of the economy, elitist with health care and arrogant on public policy the new morality? Are they for real? >> Well, today one of CNN's exit pollsters reported that this wasn't the case, that those who voted for Bush cited a variety of reasons including the economy, the war on terror, that they perceived Bush as consistent (unlike Kerry in their view), as well as those moral issues. Just as many voters considered the "war on terror" their number one concern. I guess it depends on what time the TV is on, who's reporting, what newspaper one reads. Most Americans agree with Bush's positions on most of the above. But we already knew that. Interesting sidebar: it was reported that 61% of Brits consider the United States of America a great country filled with upstanding people. 72% of the French feel the same way. Americans are more admired by the French than by the Brits. The Brits and French do agree, to the point of critical mass, that Bush is a pain. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:29:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: <636CAF794497E245BD10F7A43C72952155BBAC@fcexmb02.efi.internal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To this really nice thread I just want to add a couple footnotes, fwiw. First, a recent Harper's has a piece I think by Lapham on this topic, complementing Lakoff's theory, more anecdotal/personal/historical, but worth looking at. Also, I see the point about taking the other side seriously, but a friend of mine today was literally red-in-the-face enraged and wondering why she should take seriously a stance that, among other things, would/will prevent her gay friends from getting married and, different but related, preaches life while endorsing child-killing wars and policies, et c. Someone else on the list wrote something about giving right-leaning people a dose of righteous/compassionate anger, and I do think there's room for that, as a certain alternative to elitist hand-washing and finger-pointing, for example. I see the point of the Hollywood scenarios too, all the same, and it will likely come to that, to good effect most likely. But there are ways of taking the other side seriously that also register direct anger at the serious hypocrisies, at why we who disagree might think this hurts, us and them, bad -- and doing so as an 'engaging with' rather than an elitist 'talking down,' something I agree should be left behind. bill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:17:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Indigenous Revolution - November 10th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Indigenous Revolution - November 10th by West Coast Warriors Society . Thursday November 04, 2004 at 09:45 PM (250) 731-4271 westcoastwarriors@hotmail.com Video and concert benefit for the West Coast Warriors, November 10th at the Grove Pub, Waldorf Hotel, 1489 East Hastings St, Vancouver. Features concert footage from LA hiphop/tribal/punk/rock band Aztlan Underground plus live performance from Manik and Ricanstruction. Download this poster! Come on out and support the warriors - the West Coast Warriors' Society! November 10, 2005. Doors open at 7 pm. Tickets $10. http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/33543.php ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:31:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today In-Reply-To: <20041104142117.GA55882@mail15b.boca15-verio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David I can't say I have any answers, myself. Will my work have an influence on anybody? I have no idea. I've received a few letters from people who think my earlier work has given them a fresh perspective on life. Maybe my more recent work will influence another generation of poets and how they write. But first of all I have to be read, and I have no scorecard on who's reading my work. I'm just saying that in the face of political futility, I'm going to do what I do best because I can't change the political mindset in this country. I'm going to be a monk who writes for the next enlightened period. Yes, poetry is marginal. It has been ever since it stopped rhyming. Does that mean we're going to rhyme again? I doubt it. All I can do is hope that I can influence the marginal population that reads my work. But look at the number of marginal groups that have gained broad-based support: thirty years ago anti-smoking was an issue championed by a very few, most of whom appeared to be whiners and complainers. In the past 15 years it's radically changed people's attitude toward smoking. You're right about our grasp of poetry. I can't quote ancient work from memory the way Allen Ginsberg could. But we live in a different time, one of mixed media, and maybe our poetic "chops" have developed in different ways because of our exposure to other media. An example from the jazz world: Do you have to know every Charlie Parker solo when every alto saxophonist you hear displays his/her roots in Parker, even the most radical innovators? We can absorb the tradition in more than one way. At least, that's my opinion. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of David Hadbawnik Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 2:33 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today On a slightly separate note [to my previous post, but also in response to this], I've been wondering for a long time just how effective poetry can be, at least as it's practiced today. Spicer's "nobody listens to poetry" has never been more true, and that's due at least as much to the failure of our culture as it is to poetry's failure to hold the culture's attention -- at least it seems so to me. The background is lost, even among most poets I know. How many of us can legitimately say that we have a stronger grasp of poetry -- I'm talking large chunks of ancient and modern verse committed so deeply to memory that it is "part of our gesture and blood" -- than we do of popular film and/or music. Not me. Almost everyone can quote you song lyrics or lines from their favorite films, but not many (outside of those in theater) can give long sections of Shakespeare. In a sense, the rarity of poetry has made it all the more valuable when encountered in public space. But is it effective? Maybe "over time"? I'm sincerely asking this. Even Keats wondered if it was nothing but a "jack o lantern" throwing pretty images at the imagination. This is part of the reason I've spent the last year learning to play guitar. Well there is much to say about this and I look forward to other thoughts. but back to work... DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernon Frazer Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:08 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today Joel Yes, it is a time for making poems. I'm bummed out because of the election results, but because of them I've committed myself to writing because over time writing can change human sensibilities; right now it doesn't look possible to change anything social or political for the better in this country. So I hope to play old Walt till Bush returns to his ranch in Kennebunkport. Best, Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:34 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Fw: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today Janine: I know this feeling. But art keeps the humanistic flame burning through the darkness of tyrannical times. It's an underground fire, a joyful smoldering. The Bushes of history come and go, while Whitman remains singing. If anything, this is a time for making poems. -Joel > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janine DeBaise" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:26 AM > Subject: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today > > > > "Sometimes panic would spike up deep within me -- electrical charges > of fear registering off the scale -- and I would want to abandon all art and spend all my time in advocacy. I still believed in art but art seemed utterly extravagant in the face of what was happening. If your home were burning, for instance, would you grab a bucket of water to pour on it, or would you step back and write a poem about it?" > > Rick Bass in the Book of Yaak ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 23:25:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Erica Kaufman Subject: NEXT WEEK: Join Us for TWO Belladonna* Events!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed enjoy BELLADONNA* (twice!) Tuesday, November 9, 7pm Nicole Brossard in Conversation with Mary Ann Caws @ Poets House (72 Spring Street) $7, Free for Members & CUNY faculty and students (co-sponsored by Poets House, The Center for Humanities @ CUNY, and Belladonna*) **** Wednesday, November 10, 7PM A Belladonna* Reading: Nicole Brossard & Renee Gladman Room 9204/9205 (9th floor), The Graduate Center, CUNY, 365 5th Avenue at 34th Street. A $7-$10 donation is suggested. Nicole Brossard has published more than thirty books of poetry, essays and novels since 1965. She co-founded and co-directed the literary magazine La Barre du Jour, co-directed the film Some American Feminists and co-edited the acclaimed Anthologie de la poésie des femmes au Québec, first published in 1991 & 2003. Mary Ann Caws, Distinguished Professor of English, French, and Comparative Literature at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, is the author of many volumes on art and literature as well as editor and co-translator of the Yale Anthology of Twentieth Century French Poetry. Renee Gladman is the author of Juice (Kelsey St. Press 2000) and The Activist (Krupskaya 2003). She edits Leon Works, a perfect-bound series for experimental prose, and Leona, a pamphlet series for hybrid work. She currently lives in Brooklyn. Belladonna* is a feminist/innovative reading and publication series that promotes the work of women writers who are adventurous, experimental, politically involved, multi-form, multicultural, multi-gendered, unpredictable, dangerous with language (to the death machinery). In its five year history, Belladonna* has featured such writers as Leslie Scalapino, Alice Notley, Erica Hunt, Fanny Howe, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Cecilia Vicuña, Lisa Jarnot, Camille Roy, Nicole Brossard, Abigail Child, Norma Cole, Lynne Tillman and Carla Harryman among many other experimental and hybrid women writers. Beyond being a platform for women writers, the curators promote work that is experimental in form, connects with other art forms, and is socially/politically active in content. Alongside the readings, Belladonna* supports its artists by publishing commemorative pamphlets of their work on the night of the event. Please contact us (Rachel Levitsky and Erica Kaufman) at belladonnaseries@yahoo.com to receive a catalog and be placed on our list. *deadly nightshade, a cardiac and respiratory stimulant, having purplish-red flowers and black berries Belladonna* readings happen monthly between September and June This event is sponsored by Poets & Writers, Inc. _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:14:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: passive moralists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pamela Lu wrote: <<>> My friend Hassen (do you know her or her poems? she's amazing), has the very same ideas that you share above. She also grew up in a rather conservative Christian atmosphere, although she seemed able early on to see how using Christianinty itself could bring people around to tolerance. Hassen has spent time recently on Christian chat rooms talking about the election (in fact she posted to the PhillySound blog about this, just before she read in NY last week). But if you were to brainstorm some ways of going about doing this, really setting out to bring this form of contact of tolerant Christianity around the fundamentalist youth and their surroundings, what would be some key issues that you think could be considered for discussion? How can we make this happen? CAConrad http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:44:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: without a title Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Governments made perishable should not be consumed before sleeping Sleeps all the time yelling the end to the wind, metephor kills itself & is witnessed, the twin but hair is the difference (healing difference strong Rogaine society) a period to this great a priori meet me in the corner of the situation my consciousness is shotgun to your driver the American is a cowboy, to decimate every threat in living rooms are you still watching TV? I'm not sure I speak the same language As pardoning my talkie walkie the sound of the election was no one news to my ears... who's president every time? Well, this was more disheartening to the world Carefully designed ignorance, did that one say his army would be bigger Well yes but is the butt of every joke election? Let's try a democracy first. Did I say that spam? Yes & it melted with my ambitions in a micro-waving type... He appeals to the little you in you, Freudian slip is a theory against the little you slips all the time, this little is slipping too fast too soon too often Comfort is impossible (luna tick tick tick boom) The death of politics, ie the polis has been obliterated welcome to the machine... as was pointed out, the motor cycle (differ that cycle) motor cycle has a hierarchy, this depends on that. I voted for blue headlights to appeal to my baptism in light, the religious right is dressed in red. & the driver will someone name a driver, singular I thought the headlights made a difference in the dark but civilization is decided quarterly, didn't you think of that a good quarter but two is for a phone call. Inflation... well I feel rather deflated but my mood doesn't even come with the weather. Everything is just too well oiled. Mia culpa. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:44:20 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dont think Spicer "meant" what he said as such he was using the bitterness to work against the other phrases in his poem- perhaps no one listens to poetry arose frm a bitterness but in conjuntion with the sea imagery/refs, there, it suggests that no one hears the 'sea' (sound? voice?) truly or that Spicer feels so- of course if he was asked about he may well have said -"but that's part of the total poem...people do listen to poetry -read poetry but not enough people do and not enough are suffiently sensitive etc etc" I dont know but re the rest I dont think I know any more of films etc or songs than I do poems some have stayed in my mind since my childhold and also I memorised The Waste Land when I was 20 and I have memeory of a lot of W C W and Strevens ( I often find myself sayin, when I think or hear the word ambiguous "Anmbiguous undulations" and so on - I remember Ron Silliman's " A bee the size of a cat." and Bernstein's "Toe tapping tintabultaion" and one of them " "Ontologuical chocolate" (Silliman) Hieinains " A pause , a rose etc" and some of Susan Howe's also the Trilobite thing and parts of Geoffery Hill eg "God is distant, difficult." and back to the Langpos I really "dug" Coolidge's "Polaroid" ..that is one of my favourite works and although I cant reel of lines and lines of things I have a lot of Shakespear in there, I have pieces of my own stuff eg "Black veins by eyelight scrawled" is a line beginning a poem and I used "Eyelight" as the title of a project I am doing albeit I am too busy to do much on it just now... - I wish indeed I could have more - but playing the guitar is just another thing to do - great, but poetry doesnt get pushed out by other media - cf Alan Sondheim's Vispo work and the wide refs in his work; or even back to Ashbery's and O'Hara's mix of popular culture ..I often think of Ashbery's "How much longer must I inhabit the divine sepulchre" (and other things from JA - Berrigan uses that line (and others of Ashbery and other poets) to start some of his Sonnets,,there is a lot else (one is Kendrick Smithyman of New Zealand's "If we live, we stand in language." which ends one of his great poems). - too much to recall accurately but the summation I think is good and there is on question of "abandoning poetry " (a poem is never finished just abandoned - something to that affect (Valery)) - or postponed. Life itself is an ongoing poem. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "C.D." To: Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today > I never find it hard to write poetry, I do find it hard to read it. I think it has to dowith doing it so much, either in my head or in practice, and then everyday life has a way of being (or becoming) a big poem, and then there are fake pomes, or the fake poems of usual life. I think SPicer;s comment is sort of permanent but limited in a permanent way. in fact you could say the opposite that everyone listens to poetry today more than ever... I suppose in the end it does not matter, what matters is doing it. > http://fictionsofdeleuzeandguattari.blogspot.com/ > > > > > David Hadbawnik wrote: > On a slightly separate note [to my previous post, > but also in response to this], I've been wondering > for a long time just how effective poetry can be, > at least as it's practiced today. Spicer's "nobody > listens to poetry" has never been more true, and > that's due at least as much to the failure of our > culture as it is to poetry's failure to hold the > culture's attention -- at least it seems so to me. > The background is lost, even among most poets I > know. How many of us can legitimately say that we > have a stronger grasp of poetry -- I'm talking > large chunks of ancient and modern verse committed > so deeply to memory that it is "part of our > gesture and blood" -- than we do of popular film > and/or music. Not me. Almost everyone can quote > you song lyrics or lines from their favorite > films, but not many (outside of those in theater) > can give long sections of Shakespeare. > > In a sense, the rarity of poetry has made it all > the more valuable when encountered in public > space. But is it effective? Maybe "over time"? I'm > sincerely asking this. Even Keats wondered if it > was nothing but a "jack o lantern" throwing pretty > images at the imagination. This is part of the > reason I've spent the last year learning to play > guitar. Well there is much to say about this and I > look forward to other thoughts. but back to > work... > > DH > > > > Ph.d. candidate Department of English Studies U de Montreal. > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:58:52 US/CENTRAL Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: me email not working Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca If anyone has tried to contact me backchannel in the last week or two, my main email address dtv@mwt.net has proved to be as unreliable as the american election process. Most likely I have not received your message. Please use my other account which appears to be working fine: memexikon@mwt.net Hopefully no one has emailed me large sums of money or lifetime book publishing contracts. mIEKAL --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Midwest Tel Net Web Based Mail. http://www.mwt.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:02:21 -0800 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Buuck Subject: on the coming destruction of fallujah Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From _Counterpunch_ Fallujah and the Reality of War By RAHUL MAHAJAN The assault on Fallujah has started. It is being sold as liberation of the = people of Fallujah; it is being sold as a necessary step to implementing "d= emocracy" in Iraq. These are lies. I was in Fallujah during the siege in April, and I want to paint for you a = word picture of what such an assault means. Fallujah is dry and hot; like Southern California, it has been made an agri= cultural area only by virtue of extensive irrigation. It has been known for= years as a particularly devout city; people call it the City of a Thousand= Mosques. In the mid-90's, when Saddam wanted his name to be added to the c= all to prayer, the imams of Fallujah refused. U.S. forces bombed the power plant at the beginning of the assault; for the= next several weeks, Fallujah was a blacked-out town, with light provided b= y generators only in critical places like mosques and clinics. The town was= placed under siege; the ban on bringing in food, medicine, and other basic= items was broken only when Iraqis en masse challenged the roadblocks. The = atmosphere was one of pervasive fear, from bombing and the threat of more b= ombing. Noncombatants and families with sick people, the elderly, and child= ren were leaving in droves. After initial instances in which people were pr= evented from leaving, U.S. forces began allowing everyone to leave except f= or what they called "military age males," men usually between 15 and 60. Ke= eping noncombatants from leaving a place under bombardment is a violation o= f the laws of war. Of course, if you assume that every military age male is= an enemy, there can be no better sign that you are in the wrong country, a= nd that, in fact, your war is on the people, not on their oppressors,, not = a war of liberation. The main hospital in Fallujah is across the Euphrates from the bulk of the = town. Right at the beginning, the Americans shut down the main bridge, cutt= ing off the hospital from the town. Doctors who wanted to treat patients ha= d to leave the hospital, with only the equipment they could carry, and set = up in makeshift clinics all over the city; the one I stayed at had been a n= eighborhood clinic with one room that had four beds, and no operating theat= er; doctors refrigerated blood in a soft-drink vending machine. Another cli= nic, I,m told, had been an auto repair shop. This hospital closing (not the= only such that I documented in Iraq) also violates the Geneva Convention. In Fallujah, you were rarely free of the sound of artillery booming in the = background, punctuated by the smaller, higher-pitched note of the mujaheddi= n's hand-held mortars. After even a few minutes of it, you have to stop pay= ing attention to it and yet, of course, you never quite stop. Even today, w= hen I hear the roar of thunder, I,m often transported instantly to April 10= and the dusty streets of Fallujah. In addition to the artillery and the warplanes dropping 500, 1000, and 2000= -pound bombs, and the murderous AC-130 Spectre gunships that can demolish a= whole city block in less than a minute, the Marines had snipers criss-cros= sing the whole town. For weeks, Fallujah was a series of sometimes mutually= inaccessible pockets, divided by the no-man's-lands of sniper fire paths. = Snipers fired indiscriminately, usually at whatever moved. Of 20 people I s= aw come into the clinic I observed in a few hours, only five were "military= -age males." I saw old women, old men, a child of 10 shot through the head;= terminal, the doctors told me, although in Baghdad they might have been ab= le to save him. One thing that snipers were very discriminating about every single ambulanc= e I saw had bullet holes in it. Two I inspected bore clear evidence of spec= ific, deliberate sniping. Friends of mine who went out to gather in wounded= people were shot at. When we first reported this fact, we came in for near= -universal execration. Many just refused to believe it. Some asked me how I= knew that it wasn't the mujaheddin. Interesting question. Had, say, Browns= ville, Texas, been encircled by the Vietnamese and bombarded (which, of cou= rse, Mr. Bush courageously protected us from during the Vietnam war era) an= d Brownsville ambulances been shot up, the question of whether the resident= s were shooting at their own ambulances, I somehow guess, would not have co= me up. Later, our reports were confirmed by the Iraqi Ministry of Health an= d even by the U.S. military. The best estimates are that roughly 900-1000 people were killed directly, b= lown up, burnt, or shot. Of them, my guess, based on news reports and perso= nal observation, is that 2/3 to were noncombatants. But the damage goes far beyond that. You can read whenever you like about t= he bombing of so-called Zarqawi safe houses in residential areas in Falluja= h, but the reports don't tell you what that means. You read about precision= strikes, and it's true that America's GPS-guided bombs are very accurate w= hen they,re not malfunctioning, the 80 or 85% of the time that they work, t= heir targeting radius is 10 meters, i.e., they hit within 10 meters of the = target. Even the smallest of them, however, the 500-pound bomb, has a blast= radius of 400 meters; every single bomb shakes the whole neighborhood, bre= aking windows and smashing crockery. A town under bombardment is a town in = constant fear. You read the reports about X killed and Y wounded. And you should remember = those numbers; those numbers are important. But equally important is to rem= ember that those numbers lie in a war zone, everyone is wounded. The first assault on Fallujah was a military failure. This time, the resist= ance is stronger, better-armed, and better-organized; to "win," the U.S. mi= litary will have to pull out all the stops. Even within horror and terror, = there are degrees, and we and the people of Fallujah ain't seen nothin, yet= . George W. Bush has just claimed a new mandate the world has been delivere= d into his hands. There will be international condemnation, as there was the first time; but = our government won't listen to it; aside from the resistance, all the peopl= e of Fallujah will be able to depend on to try to mitigate the horror will = be us, the antiwar movement. We have a responsibility, that we didn't meet = in April and we didn't meet in August when Najaf was similarly attacked; wi= ll we meet it this time? Rahul Mahajan is publisher of the weblog Empire Notes, with regularly updat= ed commentary on U.S. foreign policy, the occupation of Iraq, and the state= of the American Empire. He has been to occupied Iraq twice, and was in Fal= lujah during the siege in April. His most recent book is Full Spectrum Domi= nance: U.S. Power in Iraq and Beyond. He can be reached at rahul@empirenote= s.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:47:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Open Letter to America Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Poetics Folk, I'm writing in haste to tell you about an upcoming project. I'm guest editing a feature for the Web journal Big Bridge. It'll be called 'An Open Letter to America'...the issue will be launched near the beginning of January. Would you submit a piece for this feature? Let me tell you about it. here's the link to BB if you haven't seen the site... http://www.bigbridge.org We plan to address issues such as globalization, nuclear proliferation, economic disparities, women's rights, potential legalized discrimination against the gay and lesbian communities, Republican plans to outlaw abortion, and other topics with this online broadside of poetry, essays and visual art. We are expecting the situation in the Middle East to become much worse, especially now since Iran threatens to use nuclear weapons, the situation is indeed dangerous--no dialogue exists. The time is now. How does it feel to have a national tragedy used against you? The Republican party is scared. They outwardly show confidence but they know they need support from the entire population to push their reactionary plan. So far, Anne Waldman, Jerome Rothenberg, Rodrigo Toscano, Charles Bernstein, Charles Shaw and others are on board. I plan to contact those outside the poetry world to gain the largest audience possible. I should also mention that submitted work doesn't necessarily have to address the above topics in an overt way, although some mention of these issues is a must. Essay, poetry, prose...I do ask only that essays are bolstered with source material, citations, etc. if possible. Also, you may simply submit a statement. I hope you'll join us. If we put voices together real impact will result. A steady stream of water wears away any stone. Please send submissions simultaneously to Michael Rothenberg at walterblue@earthlink.net and Larry Sawyer at milkmag@comcast.net Thank you. Larry Sawyer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:06:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Interport Migrated User MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a reminder--if you or any of your friends happen to be in the L.A. area tomorrow evening, drop by this reading or forward to your friends in the area if you like, would be great to see you: BEYOND BAROQUE Wanda Phipps & Michael Lally Friday, Nov. 5, 2004--7:30pm Beyond Baroque 681 Venice Boulevard Venice, California Coordinator: Fred Dewey Info: 310-822-3006 www.beyondbaroque.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:57:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: of the league of nations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed of the league of nations we do not comprehend these colors and signals http://www.asondheim.org/worldmemory.mov these symbols and murmurs beneath the scales or the neural attitudes of the symbolic does the symbolic have attitudes this small insect was discovered between the pages of the charter for the League of Nations _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:46:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Fw: Early Morning IQ Test Comments: To: Tony Bowen , samuel davis , Guy Pillette , Kimberly Bowen , Ginger Stopa , Nikki Shapiro , Mike Norwood , BrianPernick@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Vince DeCarlo To: Becky Smaldone Cc: Tracy teaman ; Steve Weaver ; Scott Reed ; Russ Golata ; Ron Busby ; Moira ; Mike Moscato ; Ken Lowe ; Frank DeCarlo ; Eric Frank ; Dennis Okeefe ; Dave DeCarlo ; Dave Connor Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Fw: Early Morning IQ Test >
> >
> >
> > > Below are four (4) questions and a bonus question. You have to answer
> them
> > > instantly. You can't take your time, answer all of them immediately.
> OK?
> > >
> > > Let's find out just how clever you really are.
> > >
> > > Ready?
> > > GO!!! (scroll down)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > First Question:
> > >
> > > You are participating in a race. You overtake the second person.
> > > What position are you in?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Answer: If you answered that you are first, then you are absolutely
> wrong!
> > >         If you overtake the second person and you take his place, you
> are
> > > second!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Try not to screw up in the next question.  To answer the second
> question,
> > > don't take as much time as you took for the first question.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Second Question: If you overtake the last person, then you are...?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Answer: If you answered that you are second to last, then you are wrong
> again.
> > > Tell me, how can you overtake the LAST person?!
> > >
> > >
> > > You're not very good at this! are you?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Third Question: Very tricky math! Note: This must be done in your
> > > head
> > > only.  Do NOT use paper and pencil or a calculator. Try it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Take 1000 and add 40 to it. Now add another 1000. Now add 30. Add
> another
> > >       1000. Now add 20. Now add another 1000. Now add 10. What is the
> > >       total?
> > >
> > >       Scroll down for answer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you get 5000? The correct answer is actually 4100.
> > >
> > > Don't believe it? Check with your calculator! Today is definitely not
> your
> > > day. Maybe you will get the last question right?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mary's father has five daughters: 1. Nana, 2. Nene, 3. Nini, 4. Nono.
> > >
> > > What is the name of the fifth daughter?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Answer: Nunu?
> > >
> > > NO! Of course not. Her name is Mary. Read the question again.
> > > Okay, now the bonus round . . ..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There is a mute person who wants to buy a toothbrush. By imitating the
> action
> > > of brushing one's teeth he  successfully expresses himself to the
> shopkeeper
> > > and the purchase is done.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now if there is a blind man who wishes to buy a pair of sunglasses, how
> should
> > > he express himself?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > He just has to open his mouth and ask, so simple.
> > >
> > >
>
> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:11:23 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: School of the Americas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "When policeman break the law, there is no law." Billy Jack Out of a great dark revolution, when survival mutated into the enemy at its door, when evolution strayed into a dead end like a drunk staggering under the weight of unspeakable human cruelty, we spawned this American today like a horrible viral accident, pre-doomed to its own lack of faith and ethic, its own undignified inhuman agenda, de-centered from its founding personalities, bubbling up into a black life of its own, blighting, blinding, bilking, burning, branding, burying, people, in ideas run amok, self-generating, pollinating, land to land, man to man, world to world: the School of the Americas. And Jesus said, the ovens have grown cold, but you no longer need me, every word I was lives on awaiting the kingdom, the king; and the Fuhrer though spent has arisen like the boys from Brazil, American and strong, and a kingdom comes, the kingdom at hand, a kingdom of mutants. And in the mass torture we have spilled the blood of contrition, slit the goat and loosed it, and no one wants to remember: just give me grace today. Drowning boards, burnings, shackles, hooded beatings in chairs; broom handles in anuses, glass tubes in penises, electrodes in vaginas, mice in vaginas and anuses, gnawing at humanity, gnawing, gnawing down the human dream. Evil is a communicable disease, its breaks down the immune system, the human memory, with comfort. The School of the Americas, a voice of our system, our tax dollar at work in the universe, the oozing festering remains of fear and rebellion born of stupid greedy men, a rabid nazi kennel of goatherd kingdom builders. What is a rogue state? Who are the lawless? They want to make us disappear because we want to make them appear, make them visible, floodlight hell on earth, provide choices for ethical human beings, provide a face for evil. I will fight no more forever except to say, bury my heart close to Jean if they let you find my body. Evil cannot be killed. It has to find its own end, drowning in its own vomit, torturing itself, out of reach of the dignity it has forsaken. Let it live and it will die. Put the violated genitals on TV. Make Mickey Mouse an instrument of torture in a series of dark cartoons. Make it popular, like manifest destiny. I believe in evolution, and the truth is not a revolution. It's all existence anyway isn't it? Who says: "Vote for me for President and I will find those responsible for this and put them on public trial as my first official act" Nobody. Instead it's Negroponte for ambassador. Hell, why not Pinochet, or Ollie North? I never saw the order of the stars 'til '93, but then I lived, by dumb luck alone, unaware of skyward things. "I received your letter yesterday, about the time my door knob broke. You asked me what I was doing. Is that some kind of joke? All these people that you mention, yes I know them they're quite lame. I had to rearrange their faces and give them all another name. Right now I can't read too good. Don't send me no more letters, no. Not unless you mail them from, Desolation Row." Dylan. "forever free" Trinidad Cruz with permission of author originally posted at Yahoo Group existlist ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:58:26 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: unity? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1,123 is today's total of American dead in Iraq. Without cable TV, it can be difficult getting the news, but this morning I tuned into one of those network morning shows and California Democrat Rep. Nancy Pelosi and Kentucky Sen. Mitch McConnell were on a split screen being interviewed by some knucklehead named Matt. Pelosi was talking about Bush's scary spending and the fear for Social Security, tax cuts for the rich, etc., and this Matt guy would interrupt her with, "NOW look, this is not sounding like you're interested in unity here! This country needs unity!" (she's still talking while he's saying all this by the way) and then Matt hands it over to McConnell, completely cutting Pelosi off. And of course McConnell counters each of her points with the usual denial we've been hearing all along. The president cares, the president cares. Pelosi gets to talk again, this time trying to talk about the importance of dialog, the need for open debate, and she gets sideswiped again by Matt, who once again turns the topics over to McConnell, who NEVER gets interrupted. It again happen a third time, this dismissive interruption. Unity? I really don't give a damn if Kerry thinks we should all unite for the sake of the country. I voted for him, but it was difficult, especially considering how he's always cared a bit too damn much about unity in these dark times, voting for The Patriot Act over pressures for unity, etc. The only unity I'm interested in is unity AGAINST Bush! Is this the same sort of thing the large number of Germans who DIDN'T vote for Hitler were up against? Unity? It's good for Germany if we could just put aside our differences and unite. We need unity. Let's come together for the Fatherland. History tends to forget that Hitler did not win by a landslide. Will history be more generous with us? NOT if we buy into this unity crap! There's simply no room for unity now. This is NOT a sour grapes, sore loser approach, it's more about choosing right over wrong, regardless of the majority vote. The majority made the wrong decision, no to unity, no way. (cut to commercial):::: I can't believe how grotesque a lie this new (new for me at least) commercial for the Army is. I'm NOT making this up, soldiers are actually shown playing golf and football. Everyone and everything is clean, smiling, and there's sunshine, but not desert sunshine. In fact, the landscape is hills, very green hills, like it's an advertisement for spring water. An army of one? Unity again? Where are the 1,123 ghosts standing on the unity issue these days? CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:05:04 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: passive moralists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/04 3:45:58 PM, kozaitis@GMAIL.COM writes: << The fact is that the US populace has moved to the right. >> I may be wrong, but I don't think this is accurate. The American population, if anything, has moved to the left. Most southerners no longer believe that slavery is a viable economic tool, and a fairly large percentage of college educated Midwesterners are ready to accept gay "civil unions" with all the legal rights accorded to marriage -- as just two examples. Unfortunately, this still leaves them far to the right of what we coasters would consider the center. The majority of Americans have always been conservative, very conservative. When I was in Ohio for the Avant-garde symposium, I conversed with many blue color men and women in the local bars. Most of them spoke of NYC, Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco as if they were foreign countries, not because of any great cultural divide (though that certainly applies), but simply because they had never been to a "big city" other than Cleveland or Cincinnati. The Midwest is landlocked, for the most part. It doesn't feel the influence of Europe, or Asia, or South America, or much of anything beyond itself, with the exception of Canada depending on which part of the Midwest we are talking about. I recall a piece on one of the 24 hour cable news stations which focused on a small town in South Dakota. The people there were upset because they were not getting enough money from Homeland Security to protect themselves against terrorists. Imagine that. Their fear was genuine, however ridiculous it may seem to those of us from anywhere who have more education and/or who live near the coasts. That a terrorist would gain nothing from an attack on a small town in South Dakota did not seem to register with any of those interviewed. For many rural Midwesterners, it's a small world indeed. Clearly information (news, education, etc.) is filtered differently in such places, via the culture and geographical limitations. Religion -- usually the harsher, "landlocked" versions -- means a lot, and that is fairly typical of rural populations. (And, of course, religion anywhere always insures some degree of resistance to understanding.) There seems to be, in general, a palpable sense of isolation in most mid-country Americans. The people feel it one way or another. Many celebrate it. It's not surprising that they, and perhaps we also, retreat from what is not well delineated, well understood-- i.e., the "other." I doubt the Democratic Party can retool such that it becomes, once again, a 50 state contender, not without shedding those on the left who currently support it. When the Democratic Party ruled the South, it was the party of George Wallace, Lester Maddox, etc. Democrats are not likely to embrace the current bigotries. I could be wrong, of course -- lots of money and power at stake. I don't expect most Americans to move much further to the left, at least not in the foreseeable future. After all, at one time the news was controlled by three "liberal" networks. They had an impact, even on conservative America, being the only games in town. 24 hour news cable channels have "righted" that situation. Nader may be the only candidate who isn't owned by corporate America. All that means is that he will never get the financial support necessary to mount a serious campaign. I'm not at all surprised that Bush won. I expected it. I held my nose and voted for Kerry, as did most New Yorkers. If there had been a viable socialist candidate, I would have voted for him/her. I did my graduate work at Tulane University, and taught for nine years at that institution, and another four years at LSU Baton Rouge before settling down at SUNY, so I know a little bit about the South. The owner of the gas station in my Baton Rouge neighborhood was named Crowe Peele. Very sociable guy. Nearly every time I stopped in for gas I could hear him ranting about the Blacks and Jews. Strangely, when he told me that his mechanic, Joe, who was black, had died, he teared up. Seems the two men had been partners for decades. Crowe clearly felt the loss of a friend. Yet he could not (or would not?) connect the dots. I returned to NYC, home sweet home, in 1990. For me, the only bright spot in this election debacle is that I can live in NYC. The city remains a hybrid thing, a cool concoction of American (North and South), European, Asian and African influences. The poetry scene is very much alive and well. I think I understand, to some degree, that sense of isolation so many southerners and middle Americans feel. As a New Yorker, I feel it too. And yeah, I celebrate it. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:29:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Berkson Subject: Grieving Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit DICHOTOMY TIMES Or How to Variously Avoid/Defeat/Beautify Political Grieving Take #1 [open to additions/deletions by others] Enter black space Shrug and grunt like an Italian "under" Silvio Berlusconi Observe tops of trees, cornices, starry nights, traffic lights Listen to music at all times Media Fast Tell jokes you never permitted anyone to tell before (laugh uproariously) "The sound of a chainsaw is that of all the evil in the world having its way." Get aggressive Do not "reach out" "Do not try to change the world, you will only make matters worse" (John Cage) Think (or read up on) "Yippies" Change not thyself Be diagonal Think of The Enlightenment, The Perfectibility of Man, Certainty -- can such notions be redeemed? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:02:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know why it didn't pass, except that we do have a law and many people weren't ready to expand it. I think people feel insecure right now, and they should be. Meanwhile, Oregon went to Kerry by a wide margin. Oregonians voted to protect our forests from greedy logging. Portland elected a liberal mayor and the first openly-gay member of the City Council. And Portlanders turned down a try by the right-wing to rescind a three-year tax we placed on ourselves in order to keep our schools open for the whole school year, and for other social uses. We're dismayed at the country, but proud of ourselves. -Joel _______________________________________ Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gwyn McVay" To: Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:43 AM Subject: Re: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon > > Not exactly. That solid blue strip on the left edge of the election night > > map included Oregon -- which passed an anti-gay marriage law. > > > And go figure this: Oregon, allegedly a liberal state, failed to pass an > expansion of the 1998 Oregon Medical Marijuana Act. Alaska's also went up > in smoke, har har. Montana, the stereotypical land of guns and ranchers, > actually PASSED a medical-marijuana ballot initiative. > > It's more complicated out there than the rightists want us to think it is. > > Gwyn > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:36:26 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Two days after the election Comments: To: sondheim@panix.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the first honest reaction to the election. No excuses, no what one=20 should have done. Religion apparently is the key political power in the glob= al=20 capitalist world. Ironically, the only force countering the power of money a= nd=20 image. I had felt this force writing the Turkish "Eda" anthology. Eda, it seems, is= =20 the poetics of religion as a potent, viable, radical political force. Murat In a message dated 11/04/04 12:55:37 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: > Notes on the election - >=20 > 0. The Republican win was predicted and predictable. Now the infinity > of analysis begins, an infinity that has already missed the point. >=20 > 1. There is nothing the Democrats might have done 'better.' The country > voted its conscience. >=20 > 2. Its conscience is founded on a morality-based worldview, which is > rural in origin, and relatively rigid. >=20 > 3. 9/ll played a critical role, not only in revealing the extreme > vulnerability of the country, but also in the production of an Islamic- > fundamentalist alterity that could not be dismissed. >=20 > 4. With the religious right, fundamental ontology replaces the episteme. >=20 > 5. Bush appeared, alive and life-like at the World Trade Center ruins > almost immediately after, conjoining his image with the intensity of > destruction. >=20 > 6. The left continuously focused on the negative aspects of the > Republican party, over-determining, at least in print, the violence of > a world-view at odds with the rest of the planet. >=20 > 7. Absolute morality is not concerned whatsoever with opinion. >=20 > 8. The right has been organizing, in the US, for at least a century > and a half; this election and the last have been in preparation for > decades. With the elimination of the 'fairness doctrine' under Reagan, > and with monopoly ownership of local broadcasting, the right has been > able to dominate the 'heartland' without opposition. The corporate and > Christian merge, to the benefit of both. >=20 > 9. In the 60s, which for many of us appears to be a history of the left, > the right quietly embraced both technology and structural compromises > that increased and solidified its power base, in rural and impoverished > areas of the country. >=20 > 10. A fundamental flaw is the assumption that so-called minority votes > are liberal and leftist; in fact, the opposite is increasingly the case. >=20 > 11. The 'American dream' is both part of class distinctions, and a > force in their elimination. Don't underrate its influence; no matter > how hard we try, there is no revolutionary class, but only power, > desire, economic status, and diffused and focused oppression. >=20 > 12. Corporate America is far more diverse and problematic than the left > assumes; it also presents a very real world of almost infinite choice > and identifications. Its collusions and corruptions are our collusions > and corruptions, and have absolutely nothing to do with God and God's > State. >=20 > 13. Cultural capital in the US is far more important than economic > capital, and its boundaries cut across the latter in terms of class. We > are all white trash and we are all intellectuals and theorists. >=20 > 14. Far too many judgments are made 'for' rural and so-called back- > water areas, which are almost never heard themselves. The information > discourse networks and religious institutions of the majority of American > voters are concretely effaced by abstraction. The water of baptism is > not H2O. >=20 > 15. Morality and fear are interwoven; it is the abject stereotyped > image of gays fucking that appears to corrode the 'clean and pure' body > politic. Your marriage wrecks my marriage. It is a failure of the left > not to deal with this; dismissing the violent imaginary out of hand > ensures its force within the political arena. >=20 > 16. In conservative America, the negation of negation is not dialectical, > but also a return to a rapturous positivity. >=20 > 17. If one's religion insists that abortion, for example, is murder, > then any means, including murder as literal self-preservation, may be > used in return as a defensive and pre-emptive action. It is not ever a > question of one side listening to another; it is a question of war to > an infinite degree. >=20 > 18. The church in rural and disenfranchised America is a communal and > cohesive force, one of the few institutions capable of lived-community > and defense against the rest of the world. But more than this, the > church is also the locus for community activity and identity. To dismiss > it, even in its intolerant and sometimes evangelical varieties, is to > miss the point of its existence. For the individual, the church is > salvation, explaining and preserving morality, even forgiving and > abetting the temptations of sin. >=20 > 19. The church overdetermines the rest of the world; rural and other- > wise isolated communities have a surprisingly low degree of information > flux. The church provides stability in a late-late-capitalist world of > postmodernity, where selves, ideologies, and languages are contested. > Within testament and testimony, there is no contestation; the church, > in other words, 'puts a hedge around the Torah' (Pirke Avot). >=20 > 20. In my opinion, the image of Kerry hunting (and killing) was not > only hypocritical and distasteful, but also a premature sign of defeat. > However, this had no affect on the election per se, which was already > determined, way back in the late 60s and early 70s, when Billy Graham > created the first automated post-office in the US - a religious > embrace of technology that forecast the future of the country. Perhaps > the left 'created' - i.e. the hacking manifesto - but the religious > right utilized, entrenched, constructed a primary embrace of individual > and instrumental reason that guaranteed the supple application of power > when and where needed. The only real question here is why it took so > long. >=20 > 21. The left has been hampered by split ideologies and critique; the > right, which permits no critique, has worked constantly with umbrella > ideologies. >=20 > 22. What has been exposed and contested in the US is often business as > usual in the rest of the world. We are witnessing a movement from > republic to empire, from the primacy of voting, to the primacy of > dominant interests. >=20 > 23. On a personal level - I have lived in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, > and the Bushlands of Texas and Florida. What happened was no surprise. > I voted early yesterday, and felt a sense of relief at the minor > _punctum_ I experienced. But I had no doubt that Bush would win, that > my voice was primarily personal therapeutic. Instead of despair late > last night/this morning, I've felt that our work, that of an opposition, > has only just begun - that it could only just begin. We have to > recognize, above all, that the US has done the will of the majority; > the more we overlook this, excuse this, theorize this, wonder 'what > went wrong,' the more we are weakened. Perhaps this is a positive sign - > in the sense that the enemy, if it is an enemy, is clear, and no longer > can be dismissed as an aberration. >=20 > 24. The 'cultural war' is war. >=20 > 25. Terror is an instrument of war. >=20 > 26. Religion sublimates terror. >=20 > 27. I live, you die. Vote or die holds no truck with the faithful. >=20 > 28. Language is not action. Belief is action. Belief is not language. >=20 > 29. The explication of fact in Michael Moore is replaced by the > internalization of sin and the body in Mel Gibson. Old Testament, New > Testament. >=20 > 30=A0 What the right knows: There is always already closure. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 01:38:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: cong/ rats are boarding the ship MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks mary jo at least yer not a foe but judgin from the way things go there are things that we shall never know poem writing or not writing get off it guys poem reading or not reading get off it guys poem listening or not listening get off it guys right it's yer write don't wait it comes it goes it stays it knows you before you know it it's here it's there get it guys off it on the pome does not write itself right itself fool itself i don't read either here in this wormeaten apple too many folks read their stuff the stuff of others but not the stuff of dreams that all but been forgot or prefabed or pretensed or past tensed or... boy am i tense been tense for years achy lynched by words - stunned by non-existent parallels he speaketh born w/a golden fork in his mouth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:18:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: another day talking politics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable having crawled out cautiously I have been reprimanded and branded a = "liberal"for seeking a language to communicate and reprimand those who = have votee for Bush. I have been advised that by the taking an opposite = position I have enhanced the division. I realize I don't like talking to = anybody. MR ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 10:23:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Two days after the election In-Reply-To: <102.533c1df8.2ebc08ea@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Murat Email me we met at your reading in Chicago Ray saudade@comcast.net Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Murat Nemet-Nejat > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:36 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Two days after the election > > > This is the first honest reaction to the election. No excuses, no > what one > should have done. Religion apparently is the key political power > in the global > capitalist world. Ironically, the only force countering the power > of money and > image. > > I had felt this force writing the Turkish "Eda" anthology. Eda, > it seems, is > the poetics of religion as a potent, viable, radical political force. > > Murat > > > In a message dated 11/04/04 12:55:37 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: > > > > > Notes on the election - > > > > 0. The Republican win was predicted and predictable. Now the infinity > > of analysis begins, an infinity that has already missed the point. > > > > 1. There is nothing the Democrats might have done 'better.' The country > > voted its conscience. > > > > 2. Its conscience is founded on a morality-based worldview, which is > > rural in origin, and relatively rigid. > > > > 3. 9/ll played a critical role, not only in revealing the extreme > > vulnerability of the country, but also in the production of an Islamic- > > fundamentalist alterity that could not be dismissed. > > > > 4. With the religious right, fundamental ontology replaces the episteme. > > > > 5. Bush appeared, alive and life-like at the World Trade Center ruins > > almost immediately after, conjoining his image with the intensity of > > destruction. > > > > 6. The left continuously focused on the negative aspects of the > > Republican party, over-determining, at least in print, the violence of > > a world-view at odds with the rest of the planet. > > > > 7. Absolute morality is not concerned whatsoever with opinion. > > > > 8. The right has been organizing, in the US, for at least a century > > and a half; this election and the last have been in preparation for > > decades. With the elimination of the 'fairness doctrine' under Reagan, > > and with monopoly ownership of local broadcasting, the right has been > > able to dominate the 'heartland' without opposition. The corporate and > > Christian merge, to the benefit of both. > > > > 9. In the 60s, which for many of us appears to be a history of the left, > > the right quietly embraced both technology and structural compromises > > that increased and solidified its power base, in rural and impoverished > > areas of the country. > > > > 10. A fundamental flaw is the assumption that so-called minority votes > > are liberal and leftist; in fact, the opposite is increasingly the case. > > > > 11. The 'American dream' is both part of class distinctions, and a > > force in their elimination. Don't underrate its influence; no matter > > how hard we try, there is no revolutionary class, but only power, > > desire, economic status, and diffused and focused oppression. > > > > 12. Corporate America is far more diverse and problematic than the left > > assumes; it also presents a very real world of almost infinite choice > > and identifications. Its collusions and corruptions are our collusions > > and corruptions, and have absolutely nothing to do with God and God's > > State. > > > > 13. Cultural capital in the US is far more important than economic > > capital, and its boundaries cut across the latter in terms of class. We > > are all white trash and we are all intellectuals and theorists. > > > > 14. Far too many judgments are made 'for' rural and so-called back- > > water areas, which are almost never heard themselves. The information > > discourse networks and religious institutions of the majority > of American > > voters are concretely effaced by abstraction. The water of baptism is > > not H2O. > > > > 15. Morality and fear are interwoven; it is the abject stereotyped > > image of gays fucking that appears to corrode the 'clean and pure' body > > politic. Your marriage wrecks my marriage. It is a failure of the left > > not to deal with this; dismissing the violent imaginary out of hand > > ensures its force within the political arena. > > > > 16. In conservative America, the negation of negation is not > dialectical, > > but also a return to a rapturous positivity. > > > > 17. If one's religion insists that abortion, for example, is murder, > > then any means, including murder as literal self-preservation, may be > > used in return as a defensive and pre-emptive action. It is not ever a > > question of one side listening to another; it is a question of war to > > an infinite degree. > > > > 18. The church in rural and disenfranchised America is a communal and > > cohesive force, one of the few institutions capable of lived-community > > and defense against the rest of the world. But more than this, the > > church is also the locus for community activity and identity. To dismiss > > it, even in its intolerant and sometimes evangelical varieties, is to > > miss the point of its existence. For the individual, the church is > > salvation, explaining and preserving morality, even forgiving and > > abetting the temptations of sin. > > > > 19. The church overdetermines the rest of the world; rural and other- > > wise isolated communities have a surprisingly low degree of information > > flux. The church provides stability in a late-late-capitalist world of > > postmodernity, where selves, ideologies, and languages are contested. > > Within testament and testimony, there is no contestation; the church, > > in other words, 'puts a hedge around the Torah' (Pirke Avot). > > > > 20. In my opinion, the image of Kerry hunting (and killing) was not > > only hypocritical and distasteful, but also a premature sign of defeat. > > However, this had no affect on the election per se, which was already > > determined, way back in the late 60s and early 70s, when Billy Graham > > created the first automated post-office in the US - a religious > > embrace of technology that forecast the future of the country. Perhaps > > the left 'created' - i.e. the hacking manifesto - but the religious > > right utilized, entrenched, constructed a primary embrace of individual > > and instrumental reason that guaranteed the supple application of power > > when and where needed. The only real question here is why it took so > > long. > > > > 21. The left has been hampered by split ideologies and critique; the > > right, which permits no critique, has worked constantly with umbrella > > ideologies. > > > > 22. What has been exposed and contested in the US is often business as > > usual in the rest of the world. We are witnessing a movement from > > republic to empire, from the primacy of voting, to the primacy of > > dominant interests. > > > > 23. On a personal level - I have lived in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, > > and the Bushlands of Texas and Florida. What happened was no surprise. > > I voted early yesterday, and felt a sense of relief at the minor > > _punctum_ I experienced. But I had no doubt that Bush would win, that > > my voice was primarily personal therapeutic. Instead of despair late > > last night/this morning, I've felt that our work, that of an opposition, > > has only just begun - that it could only just begin. We have to > > recognize, above all, that the US has done the will of the majority; > > the more we overlook this, excuse this, theorize this, wonder 'what > > went wrong,' the more we are weakened. Perhaps this is a positive sign - > > in the sense that the enemy, if it is an enemy, is clear, and no longer > > can be dismissed as an aberration. > > > > 24. The 'cultural war' is war. > > > > 25. Terror is an instrument of war. > > > > 26. Religion sublimates terror. > > > > 27. I live, you die. Vote or die holds no truck with the faithful. > > > > 28. Language is not action. Belief is action. Belief is not language. > > > > 29. The explication of fact in Michael Moore is replaced by the > > internalization of sin and the body in Mel Gibson. Old Testament, New > > Testament. > > > > 30 What the right knows: There is always already closure. > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:35:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Mills College Reading on 11/9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I will be reading this Tuesday - - - - - - - - - --- - - - - November 9th, 5:30pm - - - -- - - - - - - - - Mills College (Mills Hall Living Room) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- All the signs say no passage; still, there must be a way. ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/new.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:37:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Politics of Religion In-Reply-To: <102.533c1df8.2ebc08ea@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Poetic Listers: It has always been interesting for me to see the reactions of Secular people to the power of Religion. As a person who is a progressive and a religious person I think I have a unique perspective. The reality is that very few parts of the globe live in a post-religious mindset- Western Europe, Canada, Japan, the Blue parts of the USA are certainly there but the reality in Asia, Latin America, Africa and the Middle East is that religion is a powerful force that is alive for many people. There has been a global debate between secular and religious views since at least Descarte but in much of the developing world religion has efficacy because it serves a powerful need to belong and to be taken care of to have a nurturing environment. There is little difference between what motivates Evangelical Christians in the South USA, Members of Christian Catholic Base Communities in Latin America, Islamic Fundamentalists, Hindu Fundamentalists and alike they all crave order and community. These communities help people to negotiate often harsh lives and these people are not stupid they are in fact doing what they have to to survive in a harsh world. The secular Left in the USA and in other places has not provided another means to doing this they have done so in Europe but that is a special case. The problem for the Left in the USA is that they have forgotten that the US is, outside of major population centers, more like the Developing World than Europe. Religion remains a powerful force and the people who live in that world will never vote for a man like John Kerry who is alien to them. I wrote in my blog about this the fact is that Europe was able to secularize because the government takes care of economic and personal security, in the USA we live in a Social Darwinist experiment with no security and religion serves as a security for many people. Until the Left in the USA can convince working class people that they can change this dynamic and provide real security for people it will continue to lose ground. The Left in America should learn from the Right, create a counter establishment, create a philosophy of their movement and fight to win that argument. People are not going to vote for a me too party or movement. Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Murat Nemet-Nejat > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:36 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Two days after the election > > > This is the first honest reaction to the election. No excuses, no > what one > should have done. Religion apparently is the key political power > in the global > capitalist world. Ironically, the only force countering the power > of money and > image. > > I had felt this force writing the Turkish "Eda" anthology. Eda, > it seems, is > the poetics of religion as a potent, viable, radical political force. > > Murat > > > In a message dated 11/04/04 12:55:37 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: > > > > > Notes on the election - > > > > 0. The Republican win was predicted and predictable. Now the infinity > > of analysis begins, an infinity that has already missed the point. > > > > 1. There is nothing the Democrats might have done 'better.' The country > > voted its conscience. > > > > 2. Its conscience is founded on a morality-based worldview, which is > > rural in origin, and relatively rigid. > > > > 3. 9/ll played a critical role, not only in revealing the extreme > > vulnerability of the country, but also in the production of an Islamic- > > fundamentalist alterity that could not be dismissed. > > > > 4. With the religious right, fundamental ontology replaces the episteme. > > > > 5. Bush appeared, alive and life-like at the World Trade Center ruins > > almost immediately after, conjoining his image with the intensity of > > destruction. > > > > 6. The left continuously focused on the negative aspects of the > > Republican party, over-determining, at least in print, the violence of > > a world-view at odds with the rest of the planet. > > > > 7. Absolute morality is not concerned whatsoever with opinion. > > > > 8. The right has been organizing, in the US, for at least a century > > and a half; this election and the last have been in preparation for > > decades. With the elimination of the 'fairness doctrine' under Reagan, > > and with monopoly ownership of local broadcasting, the right has been > > able to dominate the 'heartland' without opposition. The corporate and > > Christian merge, to the benefit of both. > > > > 9. In the 60s, which for many of us appears to be a history of the left, > > the right quietly embraced both technology and structural compromises > > that increased and solidified its power base, in rural and impoverished > > areas of the country. > > > > 10. A fundamental flaw is the assumption that so-called minority votes > > are liberal and leftist; in fact, the opposite is increasingly the case. > > > > 11. The 'American dream' is both part of class distinctions, and a > > force in their elimination. Don't underrate its influence; no matter > > how hard we try, there is no revolutionary class, but only power, > > desire, economic status, and diffused and focused oppression. > > > > 12. Corporate America is far more diverse and problematic than the left > > assumes; it also presents a very real world of almost infinite choice > > and identifications. Its collusions and corruptions are our collusions > > and corruptions, and have absolutely nothing to do with God and God's > > State. > > > > 13. Cultural capital in the US is far more important than economic > > capital, and its boundaries cut across the latter in terms of class. We > > are all white trash and we are all intellectuals and theorists. > > > > 14. Far too many judgments are made 'for' rural and so-called back- > > water areas, which are almost never heard themselves. The information > > discourse networks and religious institutions of the majority > of American > > voters are concretely effaced by abstraction. The water of baptism is > > not H2O. > > > > 15. Morality and fear are interwoven; it is the abject stereotyped > > image of gays fucking that appears to corrode the 'clean and pure' body > > politic. Your marriage wrecks my marriage. It is a failure of the left > > not to deal with this; dismissing the violent imaginary out of hand > > ensures its force within the political arena. > > > > 16. In conservative America, the negation of negation is not > dialectical, > > but also a return to a rapturous positivity. > > > > 17. If one's religion insists that abortion, for example, is murder, > > then any means, including murder as literal self-preservation, may be > > used in return as a defensive and pre-emptive action. It is not ever a > > question of one side listening to another; it is a question of war to > > an infinite degree. > > > > 18. The church in rural and disenfranchised America is a communal and > > cohesive force, one of the few institutions capable of lived-community > > and defense against the rest of the world. But more than this, the > > church is also the locus for community activity and identity. To dismiss > > it, even in its intolerant and sometimes evangelical varieties, is to > > miss the point of its existence. For the individual, the church is > > salvation, explaining and preserving morality, even forgiving and > > abetting the temptations of sin. > > > > 19. The church overdetermines the rest of the world; rural and other- > > wise isolated communities have a surprisingly low degree of information > > flux. The church provides stability in a late-late-capitalist world of > > postmodernity, where selves, ideologies, and languages are contested. > > Within testament and testimony, there is no contestation; the church, > > in other words, 'puts a hedge around the Torah' (Pirke Avot). > > > > 20. In my opinion, the image of Kerry hunting (and killing) was not > > only hypocritical and distasteful, but also a premature sign of defeat. > > However, this had no affect on the election per se, which was already > > determined, way back in the late 60s and early 70s, when Billy Graham > > created the first automated post-office in the US - a religious > > embrace of technology that forecast the future of the country. Perhaps > > the left 'created' - i.e. the hacking manifesto - but the religious > > right utilized, entrenched, constructed a primary embrace of individual > > and instrumental reason that guaranteed the supple application of power > > when and where needed. The only real question here is why it took so > > long. > > > > 21. The left has been hampered by split ideologies and critique; the > > right, which permits no critique, has worked constantly with umbrella > > ideologies. > > > > 22. What has been exposed and contested in the US is often business as > > usual in the rest of the world. We are witnessing a movement from > > republic to empire, from the primacy of voting, to the primacy of > > dominant interests. > > > > 23. On a personal level - I have lived in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, > > and the Bushlands of Texas and Florida. What happened was no surprise. > > I voted early yesterday, and felt a sense of relief at the minor > > _punctum_ I experienced. But I had no doubt that Bush would win, that > > my voice was primarily personal therapeutic. Instead of despair late > > last night/this morning, I've felt that our work, that of an opposition, > > has only just begun - that it could only just begin. We have to > > recognize, above all, that the US has done the will of the majority; > > the more we overlook this, excuse this, theorize this, wonder 'what > > went wrong,' the more we are weakened. Perhaps this is a positive sign - > > in the sense that the enemy, if it is an enemy, is clear, and no longer > > can be dismissed as an aberration. > > > > 24. The 'cultural war' is war. > > > > 25. Terror is an instrument of war. > > > > 26. Religion sublimates terror. > > > > 27. I live, you die. Vote or die holds no truck with the faithful. > > > > 28. Language is not action. Belief is action. Belief is not language. > > > > 29. The explication of fact in Michael Moore is replaced by the > > internalization of sin and the body in Mel Gibson. Old Testament, New > > Testament. > > > > 30 What the right knows: There is always already closure. > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:48:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: <1a7.2a7e832f.2ebc0fa0@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm in the midst of the long drive from California to NY, with only sporadic computer access. An interesting time to travel, and it's brought from latent to full consciousness a suspicion of mine that may have some bearing on the awful question of why so many are so susceptible to cheap sloganeering that they consistently vote against their own interests. I've been in Texas for three days, eavsedropping on conversations and engaging in a few. All very friendly. It's striking that I haven't heard a word about the election or for that matter any political issues. I'm reminded of the traditional American etiquette that forbids discussion of religion, politics or money. My experience in San Diego, where most of the anglo population is from small cities in the midwest, is that that rule is still in place. But democracy requires constant dialogue. Many of the voters in this past election forget the dialogue part, and most forget the constant part. For a democracy to work, and this was clearly the intent of our founding fathers, elitist as they tended to be, politics has to be a full-time concern of the electorate. Most of the electorate seeems to consider the burden too onerous. But it's the price of self-rule. One can pay attention to baseball only during the series or to god only at easter and christmas and get up to speed pretty fast. If one pays attention to politics only for a couple of months every four years one is likely to be a dupe. I have no idea what to do about this. Mark At 06:05 PM 11/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 11/4/04 3:45:58 PM, kozaitis@GMAIL.COM writes: > ><< The fact is that the US populace >has moved to the right. >> > >I may be wrong, but I don't think this is accurate. The American population, >if anything, has moved to the left. Most southerners no longer believe that >slavery is a viable economic tool, and a fairly large percentage of college >educated Midwesterners are ready to accept gay "civil unions" with all the >legal >rights accorded to marriage -- as just two examples. > >Unfortunately, this still leaves them far to the right of what we coasters >would consider the center. The majority of Americans have always been >conservative, very conservative. When I was in Ohio for the Avant-garde >symposium, I >conversed with many blue color men and women in the local bars. Most of them >spoke of NYC, Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco as if they were foreign >countries, not because of any great cultural divide (though that certainly >applies), >but simply because they had never been to a "big city" other than Cleveland >or Cincinnati. The Midwest is landlocked, for the most part. It doesn't feel >the influence of Europe, or Asia, or South America, or much of anything beyond >itself, with the exception of Canada depending on which part of the Midwest >we are talking about. > >I recall a piece on one of the 24 hour cable news stations which focused on a >small town in South Dakota. The people there were upset because they were >not getting enough money from Homeland Security to protect themselves against >terrorists. Imagine that. Their fear was genuine, however ridiculous it may >seem to those of us from anywhere who have more education and/or who live near >the coasts. That a terrorist would gain nothing from an attack on a small >town >in South Dakota did not seem to register with any of those interviewed. For >many rural Midwesterners, it's a small world indeed. > >Clearly information (news, education, etc.) is filtered differently in such >places, via the culture and geographical limitations. Religion -- usually the >harsher, "landlocked" versions -- means a lot, and that is fairly typical of >rural populations. (And, of course, religion anywhere always insures some >degree of resistance to understanding.) There seems to be, in general, a >palpable >sense of isolation in most mid-country Americans. The people feel it one way >or another. Many celebrate it. It's not surprising that they, and perhaps >we also, retreat from what is not well delineated, well understood-- i.e., the >"other." > >I doubt the Democratic Party can retool such that it becomes, once again, a >50 state contender, not without shedding those on the left who currently >support it. When the Democratic Party ruled the South, it was the party >of George >Wallace, Lester Maddox, etc. Democrats are not likely to embrace the current >bigotries. I could be wrong, of course -- lots of money and power at >stake. I >don't expect most Americans to move much further to the left, at least not in >the foreseeable future. After all, at one time the news was controlled by >three "liberal" networks. They had an impact, even on conservative America, >being the only games in town. 24 hour news cable channels have "righted" that >situation. > >Nader may be the only candidate who isn't owned by corporate America. All >that means is that he will never get the financial support necessary to >mount a >serious campaign. > >I'm not at all surprised that Bush won. I expected it. I held my nose and >voted for Kerry, as did most New Yorkers. If there had been a viable >socialist >candidate, I would have voted for him/her. > >I did my graduate work at Tulane University, and taught for nine years at >that institution, and another four years at LSU Baton Rouge before >settling down >at SUNY, so I know a little bit about the South. The owner of the gas station >in my Baton Rouge neighborhood was named Crowe Peele. Very sociable guy. >Nearly every time I stopped in for gas I could hear him ranting about the >Blacks >and Jews. Strangely, when he told me that his mechanic, Joe, who was black, >had died, he teared up. Seems the two men had been partners for decades. >Crowe clearly felt the loss of a friend. Yet he could not (or would not?) >connect the dots. > >I returned to NYC, home sweet home, in 1990. For me, the only bright spot in >this election debacle is that I can live in NYC. The city remains a hybrid >thing, a cool concoction of American (North and South), European, Asian and >African influences. The poetry scene is very much alive and well. I think I >understand, to some degree, that sense of isolation so many southerners and >middle Americans feel. As a New Yorker, I feel it too. And yeah, I >celebrate it. > >Best, Bill > >WilliamJamesAustin.com >kojapress.com >amazon.com >b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:19:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: language which can only be language! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed language which can only be language! feelings which can only be feelings! language which can only be feelings! feelings which can only be language! language which can never be language! feelings which can never be feelings! language which can never be feelings! feelings which can never be language! anyway, well, I, er... hmmm... thought I might, I mean if it's okay with you, all, that perhaps, eh... I might draw a bit, I mean a bit drawn out, ah, well, so... anyway, of, nothing in particular... I mean everything in particular... er... everything in general... so well, here we are... I mean, if it's all right, er... http://www.asondheim.org/ontic1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/ontic2.jpg _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:21:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: me email not working Comments: To: dtv@MWT.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear mIEKAL, I emailed you the number of an account in your name in which I deposited a large sum of money earlier in the week. I had been depressed due to a series of electoral issues and thought to return to Ireland liquidating my significant assets here (mainly paper). I thought of you as someone who represented what is best in American independence, initiative, self-sufficiency, community, creativity, responsibility, and entrepreneurship. However, when I did not receive a reply I changed my mind. Sorry! Mairead www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> dtv@MWT.NET 11/05/04 3:58 PM >>> If anyone has tried to contact me backchannel in the last week or two, my main email address dtv@mwt.net has proved to be as unreliable as the american election process. Most likely I have not received your message. Please use my other account which appears to be working fine: memexikon@mwt.net Hopefully no one has emailed me large sums of money or lifetime book publishing contracts. mIEKAL --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Midwest Tel Net Web Based Mail. http://www.mwt.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:46:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: THINGY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THINGY What kind of shit is that, Mister? I offer you a tattoo and you want a love poem Anyone can write a love poem Nov. 1, 2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:50:53 US/CENTRAL Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Europeans are scratching their heads Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA On this side of the Atlantic people are really wondering how someone like Bush can get elected. & yet no one I've talked to seems surprised or overly concerned, the American way being so predictable at this point. My son Zon, who is travelling with us, age 16, took the defeat of Kerry pretty hard, feeling very strongly that it's his generation that is gonna have to slog thru outcome of the next four years of stupidity. He feels like there must be something young people can do other than move to another country, but regretably I'm not a very good role model for demonstrating faith in American electorial politics. Sometimes humor is the only remedy at hand & Zon has snapped photos of the following 2 street graffiti for your viewing pleasure: Vlad Tepes (The Impaler) for President. (Shot in Cluj-Napoca} http://flickr.com/photos/miekal/1302035/ Fuck the USA http://flickr.com/photos/miekal/1297654/ I've been trying to follow some of the discussion on various lists regarding post-election trauma & recovery, especially since you all convinced me to vote for Kerry the talking head, the first time since 76 that I've voted. Here in Romania I'm somewhat amused that just now their presidental campaign is starting & I'm having to endure two presidental elections in the same month. One of the candidates is Vadim Tudor who is a crazy poet & arch-nationalist. Yesterday on the radio he made a speech about how all of his opponents are little green men who arrived in this land with UFOs & they don't have any connection with the Romanian land. & all this time I thought I was the one who was an alien. mIEKAL --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Midwest Tel Net Web Based Mail. http://www.mwt.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 10:22:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: ELECTION INFO QUESTION Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Does anybody know where I could find a map or stats that would explain state by state or, preferably, county by county, where the 40% of adults who didn't vote might live. I don't know if it will prove anything, but I think it would be important to find.... Chris ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 13:03:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Europeans are scratching their heads In-Reply-To: <200411061750.iA6HoquF003149@westbyserver.mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vlad the Impaler for President! At least he'd be a better bloodsucker than the one who currently sits in the President's chair. Trouble is, he wasn't born in the U.S. We'll have to pass the Arnold Amendment to bring in Vlad. I'm betting on Tepes to clean house in a big way. He'll help the logging industry, as well. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 6:51 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Europeans are scratching their heads On this side of the Atlantic people are really wondering how someone like Bush can get elected. & yet no one I've talked to seems surprised or overly concerned, the American way being so predictable at this point. My son Zon, who is travelling with us, age 16, took the defeat of Kerry pretty hard, feeling very strongly that it's his generation that is gonna have to slog thru outcome of the next four years of stupidity. He feels like there must be something young people can do other than move to another country, but regretably I'm not a very good role model for demonstrating faith in American electorial politics. Sometimes humor is the only remedy at hand & Zon has snapped photos of the following 2 street graffiti for your viewing pleasure: Vlad Tepes (The Impaler) for President. (Shot in Cluj-Napoca} http://flickr.com/photos/miekal/1302035/ Fuck the USA http://flickr.com/photos/miekal/1297654/ I've been trying to follow some of the discussion on various lists regarding post-election trauma & recovery, especially since you all convinced me to vote for Kerry the talking head, the first time since 76 that I've voted. Here in Romania I'm somewhat amused that just now their presidental campaign is starting & I'm having to endure two presidental elections in the same month. One of the candidates is Vadim Tudor who is a crazy poet & arch-nationalist. Yesterday on the radio he made a speech about how all of his opponents are little green men who arrived in this land with UFOs & they don't have any connection with the Romanian land. & all this time I thought I was the one who was an alien. mIEKAL --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Midwest Tel Net Web Based Mail. http://www.mwt.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 13:12:38 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Europeans are scratching their heads In-Reply-To: <200411061750.iA6HoquF003149@westbyserver.mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 6 Nov 2004 at 11:50, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Sometimes humor is the only remedy at hand & Zon has snapped photos of > the following 2 street graffiti for your viewing pleasure: > Vlad Tepes (The Impaler) for President. (Shot in Cluj-Napoca} > http://flickr.com/photos/miekal/1302035/ > Fuck the USA > http://flickr.com/photos/miekal/1297654/ Computer Graffiti: http://p089.ezboard.com/ftimelyfrm1.showMessage?topicID=2025.topic ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 13:13:34 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: faux TIME Magazine this week MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Faux TIME Magazine Cover: http://p089.ezboard.com/ftimelyfrm1.showMessage?topicID=2025.topic ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 10:31:40 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@telus.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Ivan the IV in a rage slammed his son in the head and killed him. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ivan the IV in a rage slammed his son in the head and killed him. Metaphor More madness was what this was meant for Not the metaphor. This the real thing The Island of regained Kings Now comes the time for us to raid the continent Entanglement in the weavenin of dreams I see him ila Simular To Yoroba Loved the crittah for the tighest cypher Alla comes and I simulate the similie Peace and the violence of poetry Irony Came to encrease the game I am drunk you’re in sane Where’s my Rumi Tis in the 6 son When I mention equality Signifying monkey men bop them with bosn’s monkeyfist Can I get a visionist This is the emotion of the angered Nation Come get with and be my wittness Ivan the IV inna rage slammed his son Ivan slammed him I slammed his head Weak heart droppin Jib or Jeb IV I slammed his son and won the head He killed him. Slammed killed him The father The son Nativity Killed I Slammed his head Smashed the wall Against the wall I wont to slam him Inna rage I and I Inna rage Slam Sons of Jesse I am somebody I slam somebody One respect to Jesse Shiite/Sunni/Garvey Sephardi/Mizhari This all a piece of me I + V + I = 7 All good I slammers go to Heaven Never I simulate G-dub To Son Fuccin with the fact that a change gone come Check the sounds Peep the vibes Vocobrato Basso Mr Bassie Free fire Smokey sounds through systems check point Cholly converting to heterosexuality Hypnotizing you wiph Horace Andy AGM-114 Alla is in the man who’s seen Hell a fire Build a funeral pyre Poor a lil liquar out for my crimey Avoid the invasion of the anti-sun army Encryptioners RSA Descriptors B-talkers/Crip walkers/Bombing Bikers/gangbangers Free the Mad bombers Collapsing two towers The end of wild westerners An empire inna decline …and I feel fine Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/15758.php ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:52:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Murray, Christine" Subject: "a field imaginary/ thick like heat" : Poetry_Heat Reading Tonight, University of Texas at Arlington MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable from *** Poetry_Heat * * *=20 =20 "... a field imaginary=20 thick like heat =20 the july heat makes one=20 feel twice-born =20 the first time threaded steel the second, stones blanched in sunlight =20 sweet fuckin' jesus =20 Buck says the fish bite better in the hours surrounding sunset =20 when the sweet-gum collects the amber light =20 as silence falls=20 from voices =20 clear and still like watertop =20 july the lynching month =20 the heat against skin turns ritual to history =20 little dixie emerges from the sweet gum=20 and pines ... " =20 --Randy Prus, Songs of the South and Slightly West-- =20 =20 * * *=20 =20 Reading tonight in the Poetry_Heat series=20 at University of Texas, Arlington:=20 Randy Prus, Songs of the South and Slightly West (Skanky Possum) =20 Dale Smith, American Rambler (Thorpe Springs),=20 The Flood and the Garden (First Intensity), My Vote Counts (effing)=20 =20 Hoa Nguyen, My Ancient See Through (subpress) =20 Mark Weiss, Field Notes (Junction Press), Figures (Chax Press),=20 Different Birds, (Shearsman) 7:00 pm=20 Saturday, November 6=20 Rady Room, 6th floor, Nedderman Hall=20 University of Texas, Arlington=20 ___This event is sponsored by the UTA Writing Center,=20 Chris Murray, Director___ =20 Email me if you'd like links to campus maps or directions to the Rady = Room.=20 I hope to see you there! =20 Best Wishes,=20 Chris Murray =20 http://texfiles.blogspot.com http://e-po.blogspot.com http://www.uta.edu/english/znine ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 14:11:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek Owens Subject: Tenure-track opening for Fiction Writer, St. John's U, NY MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT St. John's University (Queens, NYC) has been given permission to hire a tenure-track fiction writer, at the rank of assistant professor, to teach fiction writing in our undergraduate and graduate programs, as well as freshman composition. Applicants should send a letter of inquiry, a resume or c.v., letters of recommendation, a statement of teaching philosophy, and a sample of creative work to: Stephen Sicari, Chair, Department of English, 8000 Utopia Parkway, Jamaica NY 11439. Deadline for applications is Monday, November 29. Interviews at MLA in Philadelphia and on the Queens campus. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:25:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Politics of Religion In-Reply-To: <001901c4c416$7b8ed7a0$ea89ad43@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Ray -- I pretty much agree with you on the whole, and am afraid I posted yr comments on my blog -- although I can take it off if you want -- but then why are people gutting social security? why are they voting against health care reform? why do they vote against "big government" -- especially for a man who has created a new gov't agency, etc.? my parents were confused about two Florida ballot measures, which were 1) ability to access malpractice suit information for doctors who have lost three or more suits (I think this passed but don't know for sure), 2) ability to revoke licenses of doctors who have lost three or more malpractice suits (this was soundly defeated). They were pointing out that 30% of the people who voted to find out whether or not a doctor was bad voted for keeping that bad doctor in practice. Seems silly, but here in Los Angeles, we have Drew, which is in South Central. A lot of my former students were advised by the college advisors to major in Bio and get med tech training at Drew. While Drew is the only major medical center for miles around -- in all of Watts and South Central -- (USC's is nowhere near USC, it is on the East Side) -- it is just terrible. All kinds of scandals, terribly bad care. So people are in the rocky position of fighting to keep Drew open even though the licenses were revoked or something. Mark, I posted some of yours too -- is this a "the personal is political" problem really? I think I remember commenting in a draft of a review that a while back, mainstream poetry anthologists were decrying the lack of political poetry -- anyway, I was pointing out that there was an abundance of political poetry, but it was generally political in an organic way, a personal way if you will, not in a "this is a poem about the flag" way. The way in which the personal political is nuanced in a way that sloganeering and agitprop can't be? The way in which public discourse has become privatized and so simplified? My mother has been concerned for years! about the black box voting machines -- was it Patrick Herron who posted about them? I am curious -- I voted on them, smart cards were used -- what is the problem exactly? I mean, so there's no paper, but certainly there is an electronic audit trail, and a way to compare the votes recorded directly from screen onto disk into tables versus those reported via the communications pipeline? I mean, there _IS_ a back up from each stage of the process and an audit trail, right? Isn't the point that there's no paper? What's up with these lost electronic votes & misreporting in Ohio? At first, I thought this reporting was just internet hoaxing off all of the joke animated touch screen voting things (I got about five of them right around the time of the election -- they are the sorts of things that become false "inet 'news'" very quickly). But what up with the exit polls and the voting machines? All best, Catherine Daly ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 20:15:28 +0000 Reply-To: Maria Villafranca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Villafranca Subject: open mic reading nyc this thurs! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Open Mic poetry reading at the Dactyl Foundation, November 11th: Dactyl Foundation for the Arts & Humanities 64 Grand Street (between West Broadway & Wooster) SoHo, New York 10013 212-219-2344 www.dactyl.org Open Mic/Emerging Poets Series Thursday, November 11, 2004 7-9pm $8 donation Drinks will be served. Open to all writers and the general public. Poets are encouraged to register: write Maria Villafranca at poetry@verseonvellum.com. There will be a short break in between the readings. Poets plan to read for about 10 minutes, 3 poems. Visit www.dactyl.org for more information. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 20:55:14 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Bradshaw Subject: Re: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Yes, being one who lives in Portland I want to add that we also re-elected the city council member who took the initiative to give out hundereds of marraige licenses to same sex couples this last spring, as well as re-electing some of those "activist judges" Bush is so fond of. As far as the medical marijuana measure is concerned, the measure itself was quite convoluted and, if it would have passed, would have added many more bureaucratic layers to the whole process of obtaining eligibility for the med, and, once eligible, obtaining the med itself. Right now the process is, comparatively, much simpler. Which is why I think it did not pass. So Portland has a progressive majority. And a big book store. And the city is affordable. Now we just more (good) poets to move here.... JB > >I don't know why it didn't pass, except that we do have a law and many >people weren't ready to expand it. I think people feel insecure right now, >and they should be. Meanwhile, Oregon went to Kerry by a wide margin. >Oregonians voted to protect our forests from greedy logging. Portland >elected a liberal mayor and the first openly-gay member of the City >Council. >And Portlanders turned down a try by the right-wing to rescind a three-year >tax we placed on ourselves in order to keep our schools open for the whole >school year, and for other social uses. We're dismayed at the country, but >proud of ourselves. > >-Joel > >_______________________________________ > >Joel Weishaus >Visiting Faculty >Department of English >Portland State University >Portland, Oregon > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gwyn McVay" >To: >Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:43 AM >Subject: Re: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon > > > > > Not exactly. That solid blue strip on the left edge of the election >night > > > map included Oregon -- which passed an anti-gay marriage law. > > > > > And go figure this: Oregon, allegedly a liberal state, failed to pass an > > expansion of the 1998 Oregon Medical Marijuana Act. Alaska's also went >up > > in smoke, har har. Montana, the stereotypical land of guns and ranchers, > > actually PASSED a medical-marijuana ballot initiative. > > > > It's more complicated out there than the rightists want us to think it >is. > > > > Gwyn > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:30:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: "C.D." Subject: blogs containing the fictions Comments: cc: poetry isawayoflife MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here are the blogs spots that contain the onGoing Fictions of Deleuze and Gu att ari by Clif ford Duffy The Fictions of Deleuze & Guattari The Fictions of deleuze and guattari byClifford Duffy http://fictionsofdeleuzeandguattari.blogspot.com/ One The One Thousand Blogs of JIll, Franny and MoNA. http://onethousandblogsbyduffyandbutler.blogspot.com/ Expected Publication Date Autumn 2005 - Six Gallery Press --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:42:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Politics of Religion In-Reply-To: <000801c4c436$622422f0$220110ac@CADALY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Catherine, It's understandable that your parents were confused. All of the amendments In Florida were poorly written. I abstained on at least half of them just because I couldn't understand what they were trying to tell me. I don't know if the computers have adequate backup systems. When Jimmy Carter came down here, he expressed dissatisfaction with the machines and said something to the effect that he didn't think Florida could ensure an honest election. In my precinct, two women voted for Kerry, only to find their computer had somehow changed to Bush. They got their votes corrected. Once again, my wisecrack on the machines: I figure they were reprogrammed/hacked so that every third Kerry vote went to Bush. Jeb and his brother are an example of Family Values at work, so now you know what the majority voted for, even if they didn't. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Catherine Daly Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 2:26 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Politics of Religion Dear Ray -- I pretty much agree with you on the whole, and am afraid I posted yr comments on my blog -- although I can take it off if you want -- but then why are people gutting social security? why are they voting against health care reform? why do they vote against "big government" -- especially for a man who has created a new gov't agency, etc.? my parents were confused about two Florida ballot measures, which were 1) ability to access malpractice suit information for doctors who have lost three or more suits (I think this passed but don't know for sure), 2) ability to revoke licenses of doctors who have lost three or more malpractice suits (this was soundly defeated). They were pointing out that 30% of the people who voted to find out whether or not a doctor was bad voted for keeping that bad doctor in practice. Seems silly, but here in Los Angeles, we have Drew, which is in South Central. A lot of my former students were advised by the college advisors to major in Bio and get med tech training at Drew. While Drew is the only major medical center for miles around -- in all of Watts and South Central -- (USC's is nowhere near USC, it is on the East Side) -- it is just terrible. All kinds of scandals, terribly bad care. So people are in the rocky position of fighting to keep Drew open even though the licenses were revoked or something. Mark, I posted some of yours too -- is this a "the personal is political" problem really? I think I remember commenting in a draft of a review that a while back, mainstream poetry anthologists were decrying the lack of political poetry -- anyway, I was pointing out that there was an abundance of political poetry, but it was generally political in an organic way, a personal way if you will, not in a "this is a poem about the flag" way. The way in which the personal political is nuanced in a way that sloganeering and agitprop can't be? The way in which public discourse has become privatized and so simplified? My mother has been concerned for years! about the black box voting machines -- was it Patrick Herron who posted about them? I am curious -- I voted on them, smart cards were used -- what is the problem exactly? I mean, so there's no paper, but certainly there is an electronic audit trail, and a way to compare the votes recorded directly from screen onto disk into tables versus those reported via the communications pipeline? I mean, there _IS_ a back up from each stage of the process and an audit trail, right? Isn't the point that there's no paper? What's up with these lost electronic votes & misreporting in Ohio? At first, I thought this reporting was just internet hoaxing off all of the joke animated touch screen voting things (I got about five of them right around the time of the election -- they are the sorts of things that become false "inet 'news'" very quickly). But what up with the exit polls and the voting machines? All best, Catherine Daly ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:53:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: war c.v. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed war stuffest has to imaghadine a seurex chcuntange ure coi admired himck could suck it directly from your cunt i d m have done that once was if you u leave in put mto long into lil spaces lik besbeautiful image ovt way crawl er meup my would friend sit on me and lick her tight however n line la di dah never thought or said but o bumhole cunt shit derek who the fuck wantssayshitfuck dya sick fuckhole vomit arsesole clive thechristmas profanity cuntfuck get idea he actually took shit piss id do him anyday fucker came bitch arseblog weirdref pictures ian botham bizarre arse fuckin song lyrics devils night little benefit annual health carecuntfuck listen anything molest motherfucker as soon entirely effaced are lines those forever disciples leaders among when nothing p leaves nikuko away take you screw coming going back back youll shove cock just about time soldier there is bleeding center tiffany of death looks at with his throbbing wet salt air freezing clara ghost alan julu spreads big pussycunt for bushman bigcock oil blackoil squirt asshole whipped by gnaws oily tits good photons died b black ceaseless wood looking blood toot hardwood well floor urchin up mouth href skirts veritable grinch king cuntth mayheh kad mips heh friday apr s cold final our stupid q impure we witnesses bomb how prick prickd phish light alone voltaire oh preventst prey ekron barrenness torn gushes sweat pours underarms spit drips eyes oozes semen cums phlegm shoots nose moist hade hid tell fit tail ruse flit pith sick bit she kith sand bu thick flat flick cat split cought fell bra cut off did slit ange strange sondheim todays thu problem tbyars regedit topics inconceivable bendings hide pricks corpse teeth ear war everything bullet _ selected curriculum vitae alan sondheim address 432 dean street brooklyn ny 11217 email panix com education brown university m a english literature 1969 b 1965 hebrew 1962 3 teaching full time florida international assistant professor new media 2001 2 nottingham trent england virtual writer in residence trace online writing community september 1999 march 2000 of texas dallas visiting 1985 87 nova scotia college art and design artist 1973 5 7 9 1982 california los angeles 1980 81 irvine 1978 hartford school 1977 part 2003 bloomfield spring lang parsons 1997 for social research 1992 97 film video arts 96 visual fall 1991 atlanta 1983 85 1989 90 western carolina north asheville summer 1990 image 1984 ontario concordia montreal 1979 ottawa rhode island 72 1967 8 books trade the wayward salt 2004 vel blazevox echo alt x publish on demand sophia writers forum parables nikuko potes poets press case real chapbooks 1998 jennifer nominative collective being line editor lusitania disorders station hill 1988 individuals post movement america dutton an ode burning deck 1968 cyberspace see also conferences belowgrand central residency cal state fullerton 2005 speaking at incubation iii performance buffalo west virginia with environments lab center literary computing exhibition wvu associate unstable digest nettime 2002 ii committee municipal gallery talk minnesota bass museum panel york book ends conference albany electronic poetry eyedrum presentation lecture nebraska omaha two lectures kansas lawrence reading u s c geography la psychology sci architecture ucsd subjectivity jersey huntington beach santa cruz powers institute sydney bard comoderator cybermind list listserv aol fiction philosophy fop l majordomo purdue edu e conf conferencing chatsubo cyberculture cmhcsys guest advisor eyebeam thing net participant organizer isea98 urls primary site http www asondheim org projects as clcold files recent related to 8000 clc members internet text graphics anu au txt mirror somewhat reduced lists village spoons htmlconferences ntu ac ukprojects uk index htmlost project lost off publishing articles numerous zines fulcrum refuge 88 issue 3004 composition language continuity girl razorsharp collected works beehive other virtua life wonder it all papers jan feb phenomenology cancer hemorrhagingimaging review stelarc zine work sites dealing wtc bombing arte graphic rhizome american 22 6 special codework edited hope reiner strasser collaborative lewis lacook interaction artistic practice network scholder crandall galaxia 3rd bed hello & friends gunnar johansen newletter vote criminal booglite 4 mobile love war novel yours traceroute bomb wind parallax play spark sailing barry smylie various publications broken iowa frame idols our future etnofoor linux operating system read me! vrml cd little magazine interview texts gary sullivan me weak blood observations cultures submit dog 99 deluxe rubber chicken additional aporia phaedra backwoods broadsides iroiro blind donkey schizz formation website contributor zkp5 zkp4 guide behavioral resources ubuweb flexibility alma 1996 voyeurism 112 linguistic models avatars etc vision foreign body nwhq 1995 addiction women 17 how mutate r sirius st jude warning! horizons philosophiques printemps facticite du domaine numerique vue travers les lunettes tractatus de wittgenstein queer heart darkness 1 perforations public domain georgia issues talks symposium epoetry discussion last page scratch associated programs poster session modern association mla warwick futures 1994 rhetoric denton creative moderator 23 sex narrative presented 25 28 contact paper keynote speaker perth australia 11 96talk murdoch beyond baroque venice rose miscellaneous experimental television sixth fifth fourth avatar november wizard atheneum talker lingua moo teachers julu material fellow wins program access cape breton 1997grants kayo matsushita ran kyoto nuts haven talkers pcm2 quota board former member cm reviewer o reilly copyediting proofreading commerce researcher gre essay scoring gmat private mentoring go contest manager investment glossary telecommuting ivillage handling template inquiry replies investorama copy editing mutual funds lastexit bookstore setting up business phd thesis proof curatorial editorial co rhizomes illegibility component leaky supplement 1993 culture noise short expo section jury six red year catalog world curator 0 inaugural director hallwalls cac 1987 contributing nexus began biennale alternative photo salon 10 artists videotapes laica participating space show nyc w addenda franklin furnace correspondent paris 1975 organized risd 1970 73 ppress available wide web above hole immobilization fort da robbed juarez bruised digital muck postmodernism chatter death incorrect final fire textbook thinking ocalocka poems stories cut desert confused etr third tasmanian dept structure reality nscad analysis situation 1972 strata resonances bykert 1971 halifax screenings solo or duo foofwa d imobilite injuria dance run millennium leslie thornton rotterdam festival robert beck memorial cinema flying saucer anja danl minneapolis azure carter nelson atkins electromediascope ucla terpsicorp marlabor was performed since february france lucerne verbier switzerland hellerau cologne remscheid krefeld germany venues forthcoming bug denver thread waxing moma super series 1997? fti providence cincinnati brussels melbourne afi brisbane kera pbs jager und sammler berlin limelight san francisco cinematheque 1981 ut orleans shows 92 living twice squeaky wheel suny bethune arsenal technology 1986 frontera el paso upstairs tryon lumina foundation newport harbor filmmaker coop funnel toronto both gap whitney biennial 1976 kitchen retrospective vehicule export 80 canada traveling matrix broadcast dundas valley sheridan winnipeg mexico albuquerque dalhousie screening installation 1974 mark bowery mills oakland wesleyan persona yale oberlin gain ground greene exhibitions benefit crash stolen printed matter siggraph kiosk age information penn pittsburgh proofs city faculty sean smith square zero power gender immure destroy music harbourfront pan conceptuals maki tokyo nature far hills 75 gotham mart 70 artbyte panamorenko transit hymen perforation 13 laurie cubbison consider fractured mirrors 12 uncontrollable bodies bay lips vulvamorphia transmog throat presence vu imaginary zone anne burke daly greetings from out here couples trivial consequences elma johnson flux knowledge karen finley columns return contamination transformation parasitologies fear retributions light struck polymorphous perverse disposition smut modified fissure your voice adjacent absent cinematograph patricia thornley jon held revue paint she said journal liner booklet arcane device pgr fetish disk figure when inquisition spinthariscope lowlife unnerving questions about outsider decomposition transamerican avant garde interviewed by godfrey five homocore connie bostic ymi barbara simcoe i want take picture cepa george stone meyers bloom notes selections blatant artifice sexuality filmscripts squealer s8 exit steve gallagher tre roberts atelier south news photographs denise cerda modeling jerry cullum seen no theory marcia resnick bad boys labor revised 8mm newsletter syndrome defense obscurity using computer graph jackson pollock dual self that is not listening wave ear broadcasting without screen impressions americans others area dead machinery obscura landscape pornography its penis vagina orange county economics joual jouissance parachute k david eindhoven askevold four views niagara painting drawing anderson filed mathematics summary theoretical criss cross cage duchamp if substitute alvin lucier transcription annotations strike ceac annihilation limit amino 20 translation spankeren netherlands newspaper breakthrough fictioneers richard kostelanetz shaw umberto eco semiotics caa give n houston 74 characteristics tracks characterizations word discourse control vito acconci louise bourgeois rosemary mayer nancy kitchel rite big deal informations et documents sounds after brockman victor weisskopf gregory bateson ed john 4320 clone yoko ono fusion machines musical recordings soundwork sound6 dancework cray turn cdrom global report damaged spasm cassette flesh live starck club songs riverboat lp ritual esp reissued zyx t tune samplers europe unaugural group cnote ps 122 shamisen immobilite sound intermedia snap peachtree playhouse 500 cafe knon kpfa wrek wbai wbru mit fm radio times each liberte des paroles audiotape 212 woodstock town hall forums andrea rosen atoa council northridge dare under unca alabama tuscaloosa current eastern hammond house black photography louisiana shreveport cable tv margaret curtis smu emory p regional seminar skin holocaust my filmwork southeast national canadian robin collyer connecticut ideology southern experiment critics old down helvetica communication williams london contemporary mass marks readings newark engineering study change aarhus denmark newcastle upon tyne polytechnic cdroms sampler dvd murmer archive trilby everglades cds et3 miami voyage baal asteroids motion capture blender 47 basic executables dancegrid pluspart soot mouth bodygrid scan terror videos 5184 anthrax quickcam tape progress 34 family loss 53 fever antler geyser 15 drug postmodern sureno 57 planet 1&2 43 border pobre 32 sequestered hrs monitor fashion 50 male 40 greatest hits 118 thought 16mm god wupatki best lovers misrecognitions singular illumination 31 second person 30 angelina sorrow sick violent 45 debrisfilm exhibitionist into sleazy 3000 nina hagan 18 untitled frenzy history air talking cure testimony some features us chemical warfare vietnam films 37 three hours hollywood note this does include before courses running webboard programming cyborgs so forth intro fiu instruction superhighway watching camcorder workshop fva emancipation aesthetics forms beginning aca introduction humanities filmmaking cheap workshops utd uci feminism graduate negative punk industrial creativity criticism night residences 93 00 02 bureau cultural affairs lubo grants studio production grant nea zbs commission through tapes florence reviews matt lee constitution loafing article jack kimball patrick marley muckraker joel weishaus potesandpoets ryan whyte 95 meeting minds just cathy child zack stiglicz 91 cover story terry klein option reidy jim hoberman artweek roles relationships howard singerman soho weekly acker sargent wooster artforum reductivism horvitz reviewed end intelligent concert kathy tom kenneth baker 27 gordon lebredt massey twilight gleaming german critique johannes birringer heiner muller theater carman moore sunday 68 eclectic guitar laurence goldstein brenda iijima nada carried archived metropole distributed filmmakers founder chance ethiopian auction fundraiser consultant cyberfeld producer originator artwaves representation 688 political evening ways completed cogitations ltd earthrise systems head meta corporation headed 1963 _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 17:32:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: [asle] finding it hard to write poetry today (activism)) In-Reply-To: <20041104202716.422E814860@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit furniture_ press wrote: ..| activism on a global scale CANNOT WORK. ..| it's an illusion of solidarity You are correct I think, Christophe, that *mandating* action (seizing power and making people better by forcible means, ie. activism) is a seduction -- and is only sufficient as long as it is unattained. Think about that. Accomplishment (ie. freedom) can only be realized by NOT seizing power, by NOT retaining it -- only by actual *submission* (which means a preference to suffering rather than a preference to using force). One, simply, submits to being free. This is true because 'ruling' (ie. prescribed direction; activism) means using force, and using force means doing to others what we would NOT like done to ourselves -- that is, doing wrong (removing freedom). http://dictionary.reference.com/search?&q=activism ..| perhaps it is time to leave behind the idea of activism ..| and start acting individually towards a collective goal ..| i.e. a change of lifestyle [..] ..| think: one million people giving up, say, their car... ..| instead of one million people driving to nyc to protest ..| ... one million less cars on the road? [etc.] This is very good thinking. Leaving behind the love of power (ie. gratification of our own lusts; activism) in favor of the *personal* (that which does NOT affect another, which is *restricted* to the individual and has *no connection with the rest* ~ 4'33") -- this unseen, intangible, and underlying force -- is, I think, a more capable path because it does not do unto others what you would not like done to yourself (ie. removing freedom; prescribed direction; etc.). Indeed, the chief property of freedom is a potential to openness: Grow your dreadlocks Don't be afraid of the wolf pack The even more wondrous thing which you may have overlooked (maybe not) is that this personal method does not require *everybody* to reach achievement: most people lead lives of muted desperation! Indeed, just like water filling a vessel floating on water -- at first the water only runs in slowly on one side, but, as the vessel grows heavier it almost *instantaneously* fills with water (the age of Aquarius is upon us!). Which is to say maybe only very few or less of the world's population is all that is needed to move everyone along to a pouring out of real freedom: I tell you, one man walking Is a billion men sparking -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 18:14:15 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: More Votescam 2004 Comments: To: ImitaPo Memebers , Luke@AlloraConsulting.com, fiendz@fiendz.org, Steve Smith , Ari , Dave Marion , Gigi Lefevre , yahsure@earthlink.net, weighed@earthlink.com, tmcenelly@hotmail.com, Janet Adams Herron , harri054@umn.edu, "Ethan Clauset (Ethan Clauset)" , Giles Hendrix , christopher.w.knouff@gsk.com, Alex Verhoeven , Fred Stutzman , Linh Dinh , Ed Lin , Rachel Loden , katz_nguyen@yahoo.com, cmurray@uta.edu, "Kate Atkins (E-mail)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It seems I'm not alone in my insanity. But many of you have already come by all of this. I put this together Wednesday but forgot to send.... Kerry WON? http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won_.php International observers: http://tinyurl.com/4tgva http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/11/03/russianobserver.shtml Nice graphic: http://img103.exs.cx/img103/4526/exit_poll.gif Votergate the movie: http://snipurl.com/aevh Look at page 23 on the voter returns for Franklin County, Ohio: http://www.franklincountyohio.gov/boe/04UnofficialResul... Check out the presidential totals for precinct Gahana 1: The Libertarian: 13 Bush/Cheney: 6253 Kerry/Edwards: 1916 Constitutional Party: 10 Now, check out the senatorial vote in that precinct: Republican: 2848 Democrat: 1259 Did 4000 people vote for Bush/Cheney and just skip the senatorial vote? No. Check out the precinct voter count: 4346. An additional 4000 Bush/Cheney votes in box Gahana 1-B: go figure! Beat up a journalist day: http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/11/1702435.php Oops! http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory&u=3D/ap/20041104/ap_on_el_pr/voti= ng_ problems More: http://www.accuracy.org/press_releases/PR110304.htm Hey, got a match? http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MAD411A.html Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . .=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Herron [mailto:patrick@proximate.org]=20 Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 11:11 PM To: 'Linh Dinh'; 'Ed Lin'; 'Rachel Loden'; 'katz_nguyen@yahoo.com'; 'cmurray@uta.edu'; Kate Atkins (E-mail) (katkins@silverchair.com) Subject: Votescam 2004=20 With 40 million actual votes unverifiable due to electronic voting with no paper trail, the 2004 presidential election is quite possibly a load of bullshit. Yes, 40 million of the total votes were from e-vote machines. You can see the spread of electronic voting here: http://snipurl.com/aejb. And in my backyard of North Carolina: http://snipurl.com/aejd. Sounds like a predictable response from me, I know. Slate has already dismissed arguments like mine as "conspiracy-minded." You know me, I'm so predictable. We *reasonable* people all know there's no such thing as a conspiracy. Right? But bear with me. And ask yourself, am I really being irrational? I fully realize I sound loony by merely suggesting any wrongdoing. But is my skepticism truly groundless? =20 The results in Florida weren't close as we all know. That gap (52% to 47% in favor of Bush) we are told is supposed to suggest there was not a sufficient amount of wrongdoing there to swing the election. I cannot help but wonder, however, about the validity of those results when 50% of votes passed through e-vote machines in that state. 50% of the Florida vote is completely unverifiable and run completely by Republican partisan interests who benefit from trade law protections. 50% of the votes might as well be imaginary votes. Ohio had unverifiable e-voting in a sufficient number of precincts representing a sufficient number of votes to change the outcome. OK I'm speculating it seems, but do I have any evidence to even make such a suggestion? The first piece of evidence is prior probability. We know that there have been massive problems with the machines. We have a paper trail of documented problems. Those problems have been demonstrated over and over and over again, but the courts won't have any of it. The prior probability shows a fix is likely. =20 For example, we saw massive problems and wrongdoings by the Bushies in Florida in 2000, and that wrongdoing ultimately decided the election. Another example--the Republican candidate for Georgia's governorship won the 2002 election when polls indicated that his Democratic opponent was likely to beat him by a margin of 9 to 11 points. In the same year, a Republican candidate for Senator defeated his Democratic opponent, even though the Dem was expected to win by a 2 to 5 point margin. The combination of these two results are, statistically speaking, astronomically unlikely. In 2002, Georgia became the first state in the U.S. to use computerized touch-screen voting machines in all of its election districts. Georgia's votes were not counted by state election officials but were instead counted by employees of the corporation that manufactured and programmed the computerized voting machines. Those machines produced no paper voting records or any other means to verify the vote. What happened in Georgia was not unique to the 2002 elections. Colorado, Minnesota, Illinois, and New Hampshire also experienced unusual last-minute swings in some of their election districts, but only in the ones that used electronic voting machines. Interestingly, those sudden and unexpected swings only occurred in hotly contested districts, and in each case, the underdog who won was a Republican. Sequoia Voting Systems software was discovered by hackers and found to be full of vulnerabilities. Those of you who are savvy enough can have a look at the code here: http://astro.ocis.temple.edu/~tarantul/WinEDS200.zip The second piece of evidence is the combination of bias & motive. CEOs, founders and owners of Diebold and ES&S are either big shot Republican fundraisers (Diebold) or Republican Senators who have already won suspect elections from their very own machines (Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Nebraska). In August, 2003, Diebold CEO Walden O'Dell wrote a letter to Ohio Republicans in which he said he was "committed to helping Ohio to deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." He wrote this letter at the very time Diebold was bidding for a contract to sell its voting machines to the state of Ohio. What=92s more, even after O'Dell's letter was exposed to the public, Ohio's Secretary of State, Ken Blackwell--who happens to be a Republican & who also attempted to deny delivery of provisional ballots across Ohio--had the audacity to put Diebold on Ohio's list of preferred voting machine vendors. Diebold's machines were used in Ohio's presidential election Tuesday. Chuck Hagel, the head of ES&S, sold his company's voting machines to the state of Nebraska. Shortly after that he became Nebraska's first Republican Senator in 24 years. Eighty percent of Hagel's votes were counted by ES&S employees in complete corporate secrecy. ES&S machines were used for Dade, Martin, Lake, Sumter, Pasco, Collier, Nassau, Sarasota, Charlotte, Lee, and Broward counties (Sequoia machines were used in Indian River, Pinellas, Hillsborough, in Palm Beach County). Here's a bit of a run-down on Diebold, Sequoia, and ES&S: The Diebold Board of Directors W.R. Timken, Jr., Timken Company, Ohio layoffs, 2004 Bush Ranger, Bush appointee to the Securities Investor Protection Corp. Walden O'Dell, Bush Pioneer in 2000 and 2004 who promised to deliver the election in 2003 Henry Wallace, Ford Motor Company--Ford is a heavy contributor to Bush campaign; bush Interior Secretary Gale Norton fmr Ford board member) John Lauer, Oglebay Norton--mining company; need I say more? Oh, right, Laurer also was responsible for an Enron-like scam that sunk the company and looted the investments of its shareholders; see http://www.clevescene.com/issues/2004-09-22/news/feature.html Phillip Lassiter, Ambac--he recently appointed to Ambac board a Laura Unger, formerly appointed by Bush to serve as Acting Chairman of the SEC Richard Crandall, Aspen Partners--one of the managers of the hedge fund is a William Ware Bush, relation to the president unknown Louis Bockius, Bocko Corp.--Ohio layoff lover Christopher Connor, Sherwin-Williams--a company that has regularly fought environmental regulations against the use of lead (Diebold Documents here: http://why-war.com/features/2003/10/diebold.html) Sequoia Voting Systems subsidiary of De La Rue, acquired 2002; De La Rue won the contract to print Iraq's new Saddam Hussein-free banknotes. It's estimated this print job brought in about $20 million for Sequoia's parent company. On ES&S, I borrow from "Diebold, Electronic Voting and the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy," an article by Bob Fitrakis of Columbus Ohio's The Free Press: "In the early 1980s, brothers Bob and Todd Urosevich founded ES&S=92s originator, Data Mark. The brothers Urosevich obtained financing from the far-Right Ahmanson family in 1984, which purchased a 68% ownership stake, according to the Omaha World Herald. After brothers William and Robert Ahmanson infused Data Mark with new capital, the name was changed to American Information Systems (AIS). California newspapers have long documented the Ahmanson family=92s ties to right-wing evangelical Christian and Republican circles. "According to Group Watch, in the 1980s Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr. was a member of the highly secretive far-Right Council for National Policy, an organization that included Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, Major General John K. Singlaub and other Iran-Contra scandal notables, as well as former Klan members like Richard Shoff. Ahmanson, heir to a savings and loan fortune, is little reported on in the mainstream U.S. press. But, English papers like The Independent are a bit more forthcoming on Ahmanson=92s politics. "Ahmanson is also a chief contributor to the Chalcedon Institute that supports the Christian reconstruction movement. The movement=92s philosophy advocates, among other things, "mandating the death penalty for homosexuals and drunkards." "The Ahmanson family sold their shares in American Information Systems to the McCarthy Group and the World Herald Company, Inc. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel disclosed in public documents that he was the Chairman of American Information Systems and claimed between a $1 to 5 million investment in the McCarthy Group. In 1997, American Information Systems purchased Business Records Corp. (BRC), formerly Texas-based election company Cronus Industries, to become ES&S. One of the BRC owners was Carolyn Hunt of the right-wing Hunt oil family, which supplied much of the original money for the Council on National Policy. "In 1996, Hagel became the first elected Republican Nebraska senator in 24 years when he did surprisingly well in an election where the votes were verified by the company he served as chairman and maintained a financial investment. In both the 1996 and 2002 elections, Hagel=92s = ES&S counted an estimated 80% of his winning votes. Due to the contracting out of services, confidentiality agreements between the State of Nebraska and the company kept this matter out of the public eye. = Hagel=92s first election victory was described as a "stunning upset" by one Nebraska newspaper. "Hagel=92s official biography states, "Prior to his election to the U.S. Senate, Hagel worked in the private sector as the President of McCarthy and Company, an investment banking firm based in Omaha, Nebraska and served as Chairman of the Board of American Information Systems." During the first Bush presidency, Hagel served as Deputy Director and Chief Operating Officer of the 1990 Economic Summit of Industrialized Nations (G-7 Summit). "Bob Urosevich was the Programmer and CEO at AIS, before being replaced by Hagel. Bob now heads Diebold Election Systems and his brother Todd is a top executive at ES&S. Bob created Diebold=92s original electronic voting machine software. Thus, the brothers Urosevich, originally funded by the far Right, figure in the counting of approximately 80% of electronic voting in the United States. "Like Ohio, the State of Maryland was disturbed by the potential for massive electronic voter fraud. The voters of that state were reassured when the state hired SAIC to monitor Diebold=92s system. SAIC=92s former = CEO is Admiral Bill Owens. Owens served as a military aide to both Vice President Dick Cheney and former Defense Secretary Frank Carlucci, who now works with George H.W. Bush at the controversial Carlyle Group. Robert Gates, former CIA Director and close friend of the Bush family, also served on the SAIC Board." (http://snipurl.com/aequ) The third piece of evidence: the exit poll results in Florida. The biggest problem is precision--something that cannot be verified. We can only look to exit polls to see if the election outcome was at least remotely reasonable. In Ohio the exit polls were not inconsistent with the final tally. However in Florida the outcome was HIGHLY unlikely given their exit polls (+/- 4 SEM, which means the actual vote given the exit polls had a likelihood of 0.0000634%, which is pretty damn close to zero; for statisticians, it IS zero) . (See http://synapse.princeton.edu/~sam/poll-discrepancy-z-scores.jpg for an illustration of the statistic in comparison to other states; if you're wondering about Missouri, read the following analysis from the Missouri Bar: http://www.mobar.org/journal/2001/novdec/jarrett.htm) We cannot audit the Florida votes themselves, but another exit poll could be conducted. Without a paper trail, a recount cannot be conducted. If official Florida results showed a close race, a recount would have been a legal nightmare that would have eclipsed what happened in 2000. The margin in Florida was too great for a recount. Was this a matter of convenience? =20 *The bigger the lie, the more people believe.* The fourth piece of evidence: the demographics of increased voter turnout. Typically in a presidential election, lefty voters show a greater increase in turnout than Republican voters. It's as if, in this election, the majority of anti-Bush newly-turned-out voters across the nation voted for Bush. Hmm. This is a piece of evidence, admittedly, that has yet to materialize. The massive increase in voter registrations since 2000 were primarily Democrat, but Rove & Co. built an impressive 72-hour get-out-the-Bush-vote grassroots campaign, designed to contact all unlikely Republican voters three times in 72 hours, one interpersonal. In the coming says we should be able to get the statistics, however, and know whether there is something here in the increased turnout. =20 Finally, there is no evidence to the contrary, that electronic voting was not biased. There is no way that contrary evidence can be demonstrated. In fact, it's illegal to demonstrate such validity. 40 million electronic votes. Poof. Just like that. Out comes a president. Let's face it. Many of us suspect the Republicans have formed a kleptocracy. We see again and again that they lie and deceive 24-7 in order to steal more. We can see they are looting the wealthiest nation in history if we only look. Ask yourself: given the slightest of evidence, do you put an election heist past them? When Bush says things like, =93I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can=92t = explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen . . . I know it won=92t be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it.=94 This election was in the bag for Kerry with a major *under*estimation of turnout. And when we see pictures and eyewitness accounts like this one in Ohio (http://tinyurl.com/3t3cr) you just have to wonder.... Coups typically use the power of the existing government for its own takeover. As renowned economist, historian, and leading military strategy consultant Edward Luttwak remarks in his book _Coup d'=E9tat: A practical handbook_, a book translated into 14 languages: "A coup consists of the infiltration of a small but critical segment of the state apparatus, which is then used to displace the government from its control of the remainder." Use of military or other organized force is not the defining feature of a coup d'=E9tat. Any seizure of the state apparatus by extra-legal tactics may be considered a coup, according to Luttwak. Ultimately few in the government are fighting for your right to vote. Edwards reportedly encouraged Kerry to continue to count in Ohio, but Kerry opted for "unity." We can be sure Bush will not go centrist on us. Meanwhile, the media proliferate their claims that e-voting was a success--because, they say, no widespread problems were reported. Without a trail, what's there to report? We on the left, we were gutless Tuesday night when things looked bad. Many of us stopped watching and gave up hope well before Ohio was settled. We threw up our hands, citing that America is on the whole homophobic, misogynist, stupid. Many of us are now wringing our hands, citing secession or leaving the country altogether. A lot of Americans may be stupid, homophobic, and misogynist, to be sure, but the election in no way proves that is the case with the majority. =20 40 million votes. =20 Vaporware.=20 Alas, there is absolutely nothing we can do to change this election. Nothing. We can't go back and count those votes--they are not there to be counted. Gone. Our legislature has failed to protect us, because we have failed to insist on it. So we can't do much now. It's too late. But what can we do about the next election? Based on this election, we can anticipate that the fight to force states to make sure a paper trail is created from electronic voting machines will fade. But that fight must continue. I will fully admit the entirety of my argument could be wrong. Unlike electronic votes my argument is verifiable. Don't some of these questions and issues make you wonder, not just a little bit? We don't have the 40 million votes needed to ultimately substantiate or reject my argument. That *should* make you very nervous, very concerned. If you're a freedom-loving American. Be rest assured, no one can be sure that Bush has the mandate of the masses. The sound of confidence in such a claim is nothing but noise. Fear not. So don=92t give up on America. Protect your right to vote. Bush might = be marching freedom out the door, but you can stop him. You can fight for election paper trails, and fight for validation of electronic voting regardless of the margin of outcome between candidates. You can start by fighting for H.R.2239 and S.1980, stalled bills which would amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 by requiring a voter-verified permanent record or hardcopy of all electronic votes. You can also educate yourself about the problems of electronic voting and educate others. You can support a movement to impeach Bush for his and his croneys' acts of sedition: http://www.votetoimpeach.org/. Or if you've the stomach for it, you can also practice civil disobedience: find those electronic machines, drag 'em out, pull 'em apart, and find out how they work. Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . .=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 18:53:26 -0500 Reply-To: ronhenry@clarityconnect.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Henry Subject: New poetry in AUGHT, no. 13 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Once again I'm privileged to be able to offer a fine selection of poems from new and established writers. In addition to the usual fare of works that push the boundaries of syntax, poetic structure, and lyric voice, AUGHT no. 13 includes a section featuring short pieces (or sequences of pieces), under 25 words. I hope you'll enjoy reading all the wonderful work as much as I have. http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm -- Ron Henry AUGHT ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:09:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: an unpopular philosophy & the failure of words MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are no societal solutions. There's only a company of friends and lover= s=20 to lean on to battle on in tender camaraderie within the shelter=20 of flesh & blood=20 i say to him my shoulders are in my heart no better yet, my shoulders=20 are in my vagina to one up me he says, mark off a spot i=E2=80=99m all shoulder I agree that the line should be firmly drawn, but a candidate or party that=20 defines itself so totally opposed to the current & popular majority values w= ill=20 never get elected. This bunch is a pernicious virus that made its way=20 westward fleeing a Europe that had grown tired of its bullshit. Our relative= ly few=20 enlightened leaders tried to shape a possibility for the potential of=20 freethinkers who were up against it from the start. Nothing has changed. In=20= fact it's=20 gotten worse. The philosophy behind wars & human suffering is to continue a specific agend= a=20 which is so obviously apparent from the record of history, namely, elitism=20 and racism. Those who've held and controlled wealth & power for millennia ha= ve=20 great interest in the art of maintenance. A slave who has become a master is= =20 still a slave. If people strive to emulate this agenda and grasp an unnecessary amount of=20 personal power and comfort at the expense of others, they can be sure they'r= e on=20 the wrong side and can only perpetuate this agenda. The unprivileged mass of= =20 humanity throughout the ages has been stuck in the middle between maintainin= g=20 the status quo and realizing something better. The something better is=20 definitely not becoming more or less than human, say for instance, an angel=20= or a=20 beast. We are no longer under any biological mandate: we have moved into an=20 intellectual mandate. That is the prevailing philosophy in the world which=20 eliminates subservience or adherence to either the religious or scientific a= pproaches,=20 both of which give death and suffering the power to empower this agenda. The= =20 philosophy of intellectually changing our relativity to our environment and=20= to=20 each other is the only feasible working philosophy for evolution. And the other side, the one which knows we can move toward a new beginning=20 against all odds, will always be ridiculed or ignored. It doesn't mean this=20= side=20 is wrong, only that all prevailing attempts, including religion and science=20 which only reinforce the elitist racist agenda, have failed and will always=20 fail. It simply means that a new day has not yet arrived. It's preferable have as little contact with the distasteful dominating team=20 as possible: stay alive doing the things you consider interesting or practic= al.=20 But ultimately, it doesn't matter which approach you take, if you don't thin= k=20 change is possible. Neither will you have made a dent in the edifice that=20 stagnates human potential. The only shot you have at creating a new beginning is to enter the playing=20 field as a ringer, something better than a slave or master, someone who know= s=20 they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. ---------- If across great seas I'd landed hard beyond the cruciform of crown, and heaven bent and crooked starred; to find some peace and lay me down. If hacked and savaged on the way, where wild forest peoples chase, dying, birthing every day, beside cold water was a place. It was only love that drove me, away from war and death. It was only words that failed me by the river, out of breath. If I built a troubled town of mud and stones and bone and blood, and shared what secret I had found with people neither bad nor good. If I forged blue beads of sand and fire beside cold water on my knees, and lay my robes down in desire while children giggled in the trees. It was only love that led me. It was love that drew us near. I couldn't know that loving me would make us disappear. If I planted people sweet and fair and forged in them my heart and hue; we will find us waiting there beside cold water, beads of blue. T.M. Malo For Prince Madoc Beside Cold Water 1999 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:40:39 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Votescam 2004? Comments: To: Ari , ImitaPo Memebers , Luke@AlloraConsulting.com, fiendz@fiendz.org, Steve Smith , Dave Marion , Gigi Lefevre , yahsure@earthlink.net, weighed@earthlink.com, tmcenelly@hotmail.com, Janet Adams Herron , harri054@umn.edu, "Ethan Clauset (Ethan Clauset)" , Giles Hendrix , christopher.w.knouff@gsk.com, Alex Verhoeven , Fred Stutzman In-Reply-To: <20041105211343.46771.qmail@web50804.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, what we call lobbying is what Australians call bribery. It will be very hard to change things without eliminating private moneys from elections. Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . . -----Original Message----- From: Ari [mailto:threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 4:14 PM To: patrick@proximate.org; 'ImitaPo Memebers'; Luke@AlloraConsulting.com; fiendz@fiendz.org; 'Steve Smith'; 'Dave Marion'; 'Gigi Lefevre'; yahsure@earthlink.net; weighed@earthlink.com; tmcenelly@hotmail.com; 'Janet Adams Herron'; harri054@umn.edu; Ethan Clauset (Ethan Clauset); Giles Hendrix; UBPO (UBPO); christopher.w.knouff@gsk.com; Alex Verhoeven; 'Fred Stutzman' Subject: Re: Votescam 2004? The main problem as I see it is that America is no longer a democracy 'for the people by the people',it is a duocracy,a two party system keeping each other in power,remember all the 'don't vote for Ralph Nader' propaganda? well Ralph only got ONE percent and Bush still got in,and the Democrats still lost.pathetis aren't we? meanwhile two guys that were in the same fraternity at school hoodwinked us all.IT'S TIME TO TAKE AMERICA BACK from 'the rich elite' who patronise us for their own benefits,tomorrow some of my friends and clients shall be discussing the probability of setting up a REAL alternative political party that shall appeal to the disenfranchised Republicans and Democrats of this once great country to try to do just that.Ralph has NO IDEA how to sell himself or his policies,I hope we shall.Good luck to you all,we shall all need it in the next four years.Ari ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:16:50 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Votescam 2004? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Patrick and Listees. You should read John Pilger's books including - here is my listing of it on abeboks.com ie www.abebooks.com A Secret Country Pilger, John Price: US$ 14.33 (NZ$ 20.00) [Convert Currency] Shipping: [Rates and Speeds] Book Description: London: Jonathan Cape, 1989. Grey Cloth Gold Gilt Titles. Fine. First Edition. Large 8vo - over 7?" - 9?" Tall. The story of Australia's history including the injustices to the aboriginees and interference by the CIA in Australian politics and the "Mates Club". Fascinating book. Overall with faults Very Good. Bookseller Inventory #200000001526 Bookseller: Aspect Books (Auckland, AKLD, New Zealand Lol - a bt of promotion [I see the irony of this as I am advocating a possible socialist struggle outseide the "system" !! But I can assure all those that even as amiilionannire my heart wil be with the "struggle"!! (joke of course)] but I mean it I will discount 10% for listees. (recently discounted all tese "higher" numbered book by 20% because since Bush got into poewer the US$ value has dropped about 40 to 50 % (versus the NZ$) I think..very big. A lot of that is an indicator of the weakmnes onf theUS economy and also NZ's moderate economic prosperity - probably only temporary) - hence the desparate need for S11 (US economy was in trouble then). Hence - see also as most probably you have Michael Moore's films etc I think that Miuchael Moore is a great person and a great and courageous American going very public to expose US policies: Pilger also..Chomsky I believe is good I havent read him - Think of my friend who is a mechanic in NZ - his boss went to the film by Moore Fahrenheit911 and walked out - others: my friend - when I discuss the sitution in Iraq can only say "but they cyt heads off" ...he doesnt read (virtually at all - harldy even the Newspapers)... also many of those voters in "middle Amreica will be working class, technitians, mechanics etc) and will hardly ever read anything...many do, but read what confirms thier opinions (that said,.... we all tend to do that): The problem now is you need strong activist movemenst that by-pass the so-called democratic provcces and "infiltrate the mass of the people with knowledge - cunning is needed (see Hans Haacke and his use (interest in) of Bertolt Brecht's method of using/obtaingn or telling the truth - cunning is needed) and if you can show working people and poor people (many of whom join the military ) throughout the US that they need to know more, that their interests are not served by this false and hollow 'democracy' etc etc - you will have the beginning of major political change but it will never come via the ballot box....only by direct militant action by the poeple of the US - intellectusals students and others need to assist in this revolution. Clearly it is impossible to "suppress " religion so a new amalgam of Marxixt and other ideations need to be utilised in the struggle. Meantime I make a few dollars selling books !! Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Herron" To: Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 1:40 PM Subject: Re: Votescam 2004? > Yeah, what we call lobbying is what Australians call bribery. It will > be very hard to change things without eliminating private moneys from > elections. > > > Patrick > > .. . . . . . . > Patrick Herron > patrick@proximate.org > > Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), > now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc > Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm > Works http://proximate.org/works.htm > Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org > Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org > .. . . . . . . > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ari [mailto:threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 4:14 PM > To: patrick@proximate.org; 'ImitaPo Memebers'; > Luke@AlloraConsulting.com; fiendz@fiendz.org; 'Steve Smith'; 'Dave > Marion'; 'Gigi Lefevre'; yahsure@earthlink.net; weighed@earthlink.com; > tmcenelly@hotmail.com; 'Janet Adams Herron'; harri054@umn.edu; Ethan > Clauset (Ethan Clauset); Giles Hendrix; UBPO (UBPO); > christopher.w.knouff@gsk.com; Alex Verhoeven; 'Fred Stutzman' > Subject: Re: Votescam 2004? > > > The main problem as I see it is that America is no > longer a democracy 'for the people by the people',it > is a duocracy,a two party system keeping each other in > power,remember all the 'don't vote for Ralph Nader' > propaganda? well Ralph only got ONE percent and Bush > still got in,and the Democrats still lost.pathetis > aren't we? > meanwhile two guys that were in the same fraternity at > school hoodwinked us all.IT'S TIME TO TAKE AMERICA > BACK from 'the rich elite' who patronise us for their > own benefits,tomorrow some of my friends and clients > shall be discussing the probability of setting up a > REAL alternative political party that shall appeal to > the disenfranchised Republicans and Democrats of this > once great country to try to do just that.Ralph has NO > IDEA how to sell himself or his policies,I hope we > shall.Good luck to you all,we shall all need it in the > next four years.Ari > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:20:09 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: it's no go MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "I ain't gonna study war no more" Billy wanted to take a walk with me once, along an isolated beach, but my beach was next to a stone green primordial sea, next to a failed poison land of hunger and bitter tears, in a swarming stifling delusionless air, and he had no pace to his steps, and mine washed away more quickly than he could follow, and I could not save him from himself, but then he could only do that for himself anyway. Growing up is hard to do. But then he had that walk with "dubyah" and got him right with God. And now "dubyah" doesn't drink or smoke or chew or carouse with real women, so there's little left of him but the mad dog in the noonday sun. And study war he does, from deceit to torture, all for King Jesus. The man is not fit to run a small town jail with any humanity, let alone be president of the United States. He missed his true calling - the male Sunday School teacher, who makes the little girls nervously pull at their skirts in shame before his leering eyes. Michelangelo loved the human form, like no other before him, and ached and died to carve and plaster it everywhere around him, consumed in a mad agony for flesh and blood and bone. And he took a Papal walk with Julius out around the town and learned to stoop to provide for war. And Jesus took another human artist off to war, down from the high places to the stinking battlement, to the demented ecstasy of killing, and the humiliation of personally sublimated fear, the slaughtered hope for peace with another. And the bodies were his to explore and to love and to lift up for all to see, but then they were all dead people on a chapel wall, causalities of war, and he could climb no higher. "it's no-go the merry-go-round" Whether Osiris, Attis, Hyacynth, Hercules, or Jesus, shall we kill the world to meet them in Elysium or Heaven just because we cannot overcome our jealousy and fear? So let it be written. So let it be done. Soldier through and chop them down on right and left and rear and forward. It's the same old God of war. After all this time we should know him by the smell. Everyone who believes in God should be with their God. It's no-go the planetary holocaust, because I'm not sure anything worth saving is left to be lost, and I'm not sure what really needs to die would ever stay dead. fantasy is not an antidote for truth Trinidad Cruz used with permission ---------- It's no go the merrygoround, it's no go the rickshaw, All we want is a limousine and a ticket for the peepshow. Their knickers are made of crepe-de-chine, their shoes are made of python, Their halls are lined with tiger rugs and their walls with head of bison. John MacDonald found a corpse, put it under the sofa, Waited till it came to life and hit it with a poker, Sold its eyes for souvenirs, sold its blood for whiskey, Kept its bones for dumbbells to use when he was fifty. It's no go the Yogi-man, it's no go Blavatsky, All we want is a bank balance and a bit of skirt in a taxi. Annie MacDougall went to milk, caught her foot in the heather, Woke to hear a dance record playing of Old Vienna. It's no go your maidenheads, it's no go your culture, All we want is a Dunlop tire and the devil mend the puncture. The Laird o' Phelps spent Hogmanay declaring he was sober, Counted his feet to prove the fact and found he had one foot over. Mrs. Carmichael had her fifth, looked at the job with repulsion, Said to the midwife "Take it away; I'm through with overproduction." It's no go the gossip column, it's no go the Ceilidh, All we want is a mother's help and a sugar-stick for the baby. Willie Murray cut his thumb, couldn't count the damage, Took the hide of an Ayrshire cow and used it for a bandage. His brother caught three hundred cran when the seas were lavish, Threw the bleeders back in the sea and went upon the parish. It's no go the Herring Board, it's no go the Bible, All we want is a packet of fags when our hands are idle. It's no go the picture palace, it's no go the stadium, It's no go the country cot with a pot of pink geraniums, It's no go the Government grants, it's no go the elections, Sit on your arse for fifty years and hang your hat on a pension. It's no go my honey love, it's no go my poppet; Work your hands from day to day, the winds will blow the profit. The glass is falling hour by hour, the glass will fall forever, But if you break the bloody glass you won't hold up the weather. Louis MacNeice ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 20:21:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Diebold Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Here is the link to Diebold Corp and what put Bush back in the White House http://www.diebold.com/dieboldes/ _________________________________________ COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said. Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct. Bush actually received 365 votes in the precinct, Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, told The Columbus Dispatch. State and county election officials did not immediately respond to requests by The Associated Press for more details about the voting system and its vendor, and whether the error, if repeated elsewhere in Ohio, could have affected the outcome. Bush won the state by more than 136,000 votes, according to unofficial results, and Kerry conceded the election on Wednesday after acknowledging that 155,000 provisional ballots yet to be counted in Ohio would not change the result. The Secretary of State's Office said Friday it could not revise Bush's total until the county reported the error. The Ohio glitch is among a handful of computer troubles that have emerged since Tuesday's elections. In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost because officials mistakenly believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did. And in San Francisco, a malfunction with custom voting software could delay efforts to declare the winners of four races for county supervisor. In the Ohio precinct in question, the votes are recorded onto a cartridge. On one of the three machines at that precinct, a malfunction occurred in the recording process, Damschroder said. He could not explain how the malfunction occurred. Damschroder said people who had seen poll results on the election board's Web site called to point out the discrepancy. The error would have been discovered when the official count for the election is performed later this month, he said. The reader also recorded zero votes in a county commissioner race on the machine. Workers checked the cartridge against memory banks in the voting machine and each showed that 115 people voted for Bush on that machine. With the other machines, the total for Bush in the precinct added up to 365 votes. Meanwhile, in San Francisco, a glitch occurred with software designed for the city's new "ranked-choice voting," in which voters list their top three choices for municipal offices. If no candidate gets a majority of first-place votes outright, voters' second and third-place preferences are then distributed among candidates who weren't eliminated in the first round. When the San Francisco Department of Elections tried a test run on Wednesday of the program that does the redistribution, some of the votes didn't get counted and skewed the results, director John Arntz said. "All the information is there," Arntz said. "It's just not arriving the way it was supposed to." A technician from the Omaha, Neb. company that designed the software, Election Systems & Software Inc., was working to diagnose and fix the problem. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:25:39 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: passive moralists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just becasue you think a conspiracy is sneaking up behind you doesnt mean a real conspiracy ins't sneaking up behind you!! With a nod also to Patrick. > > Sound like a conspiracy? Well, it was just smart organizing. As a result, We have to take the other > > side seriously, learn how the enemy thinks the way it does and why. In Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Stroffolino" To: Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 11:48 PM Subject: Re: passive moralists > Pamela--- > > Thank you for this in general--especially your thoughts on the possibility > of the republicans fragmenting at the seam between economic and moral. > Also, thanks for your Hollywood scenario about the rewrite of Will & Grace. > I wish I had thought of that, and it definitely begins to fit the bill > of the kind of thing I was gesturing towards. > > Chris > > ---------- > >From: Pamela Lu > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: passive moralists > >Date: Thu, Nov 4, 2004, 1:13 PM > > > > > Aaron, et al, > > > > I agree. Of course politics cannot be reduced down to > > linguistic/philosophical analyses. We're dealing with real, i.e. material, > > issues here, real lives, real jobs, real freedoms are at stake here. That's > > why the outlook of another 4 years, what with the possibility of up to 4 > > Supreme Court appointments coming up for grabs, makes me very very afraid. > > > > I too feel bitter about this entrenched corporatized two-party system, where > > only millionaires can afford to run for office, where third-party candidates > > are barred from the nationally televised debates. That needs to change. I > > feel some rancor too about Nadar not sticking with the Green party this time > > around, I mean, if we want to promote a multi-party system we at least need > > to start developing loyalty to our third parties, don't we? In 2000 the > > Greens looked like they were going to be a really viable organized party ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:12:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Politics of Religion In-Reply-To: <000801c4c436$622422f0$220110ac@CADALY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cat You are free to post anything I write, on your blog, from the Buffalo list- R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Catherine Daly > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 1:26 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Politics of Religion > > > Dear Ray -- I pretty much agree with you on the whole, and am afraid I > posted yr comments on my blog -- although I can take it off if you want > -- > > but then why are people gutting social security? why are they voting > against health care reform? why do they vote against "big government" > -- especially for a man who has created a new gov't agency, etc.? my > parents were confused about two Florida ballot measures, which were 1) > ability to access malpractice suit information for doctors who have lost > three or more suits (I think this passed but don't know for sure), 2) > ability to revoke licenses of doctors who have lost three or more > malpractice suits (this was soundly defeated). They were pointing out > that 30% of the people who voted to find out whether or not a doctor was > bad voted for keeping that bad doctor in practice. > > Seems silly, but here in Los Angeles, we have Drew, which is in South > Central. A lot of my former students were advised by the college > advisors to major in Bio and get med tech training at Drew. While Drew > is the only major medical center for miles around -- in all of Watts and > South Central -- (USC's is nowhere near USC, it is on the East Side) -- > it is just terrible. All kinds of scandals, terribly bad care. So people > are in the rocky position of fighting to keep Drew open even though the > licenses were revoked or something. > > Mark, I posted some of yours too -- is this a "the personal is > political" problem really? I think I remember commenting in a draft of > a review that a while back, mainstream poetry anthologists were decrying > the lack of political poetry -- anyway, I was pointing out that there > was an abundance of political poetry, but it was generally political in > an organic way, a personal way if you will, not in a "this is a poem > about the flag" way. The way in which the personal political is nuanced > in a way that sloganeering and agitprop can't be? The way in which > public discourse has become privatized and so simplified? > > My mother has been concerned for years! about the black box voting > machines -- was it Patrick Herron who posted about them? I am curious > -- I voted on them, smart cards were used -- what is the problem > exactly? I mean, so there's no paper, but certainly there is an > electronic audit trail, and a way to compare the votes recorded directly > from screen onto disk into tables versus those reported via the > communications pipeline? I mean, there _IS_ a back up from each stage of > the process and an audit trail, right? Isn't the point that there's no > paper? What's up with these lost electronic votes & misreporting in > Ohio? At first, I thought this reporting was just internet hoaxing off > all of the joke animated touch screen voting things (I got about five of > them right around the time of the election -- they are the sorts of > things that become false "inet 'news'" very quickly). But what up with > the exit polls and the voting machines? > > All best, > Catherine Daly > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 00:52:29 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: THINGY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/06/04 1:07:26 PM, walterblue@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > THINGY >=20 >=20 >=20 > What kind of shit is that, Mister? >=20 > I offer you a tattoo and you want a love poem >=20 > Anyone can write a love poem >=20 >=20 >=20 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Nov. 1, 2004 >=20 SIN Having a tattoo is a sin. But anyone can write a poem. =20 Nov. 7. 2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 08:35:35 UTC Reply-To: xstream@xpressed.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Subject: xStream #25 online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit xStream -- Issue #25 xStream Issue #25 is online, again in three parts: 1. Regular (also available in PDF): Works from 7 poets (Sandra Simonds, Dorothee Lang, Hugh Tribbey, David Nemeth, John Crouse & Jim Leftwich, and Andrew Topel) 2. Autoissue: Poems generated by computer from Issue #25 texts, the whole autoissue is generated in "real-time", new version in every refresh. 3. Wryting Issue #8: a monthly selection of WRYTING-L listserv works Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Editor xStream WWW: http://xstream.xpressed.org email: xstream@xpressed.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 03:17:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: Re: THINGY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed yes, but how sweet it is to be loved by the needle For art, I plan a tatoo of everything or truly anything Crosses, Mendelbrot set, Cosmic Orgonic Functionalism, some of my ink work Ousia or another greek word in greek Some other words I am prone to write I want to write on everything & die with it but, considering the money, broke Instead I tag. By the way, you're it thingy. 1 sticker said: Tag your government >From: Murat Nemet-Nejat >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: THINGY >Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 00:52:29 EST > >In a message dated 11/06/04 1:07:26 PM, walterblue@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > > > > THINGY > > > > > > > > What kind of shit is that, Mister? > > > > I offer you a tattoo and you want a love poem > > > > Anyone can write a love poem > > > > > > > > Nov. 1, 2004 > > > >SIN > >Having a tattoo is a sin. >But anyone can write a poem. > > > Nov. 7. 2004 _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 03:21:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: Kings & Queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "Expediant means" Lotus Sutra My kingdom is not here (Jesus) "THE bible (singular)" KING James bad translation. Sounds pretty in pink. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 09:54:07 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: Re: Kings & Queens In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Killosity cured the cat. Quoting Ian VanHeusen : > "Expediant means" Lotus Sutra > My kingdom is not here (Jesus) > "THE bible (singular)" KING James > bad translation. Sounds pretty in pink. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 03:56:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: election results MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The current map at http://www.electoral-vote.com/index.html gives a county breakdown and is easily the best summary of election results I've seen. Check it out - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 10:15:02 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: wonny cares MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit c like cuno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! t aliforno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! ia 55 44.3 55 9 52.5 0.6 9 c like cuno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! t ono newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! ec like cuno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! t tic like cuno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! t ut 7 54.3 44.0 0.8 7 delaware 3 53.3 45.8 0.6 3 d.c like cuno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! t . 3 89.5 9.3 0.6 3 27 47.uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 52.uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 0.4 27 georgia uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 5 4uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .4 58.uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 5 4 54.0 45.3 4 idaho 4 68.5 4 illino newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! oisuck 2uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 54.7 44.7 2uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! ino newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! diano newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! a uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! iowa 7 49.2 50.uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 0.4 7 kano newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! suck asuck 6 36.5 62.2 0.8 6 8 59.5 0.5 8 louisuck iano newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! a 9 42.2 56.8 0.4 9 4 45.0 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 4 marylano newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! d uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 0 55.7 43.3 0.5 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 0 mierda... asuck suck ac like cuno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! t husuck ettsuck uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 2 62.uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 37.0 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 2 mierda... ic like cuno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! t higano newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 7 5uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .2 0.5 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 7 mierda... ino newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! esuck ota uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 0 5uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 0.7 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 0 6 39.5 59.8 0.3 6 mierda... isuck suck ouri uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 46.uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 53.4 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! mierda... ono newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! tano newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! a 3 59.2 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .4 3 no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! ebrasuck ka 5 66.6 0.7 5 no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! evada 5 0.6 5 no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! ew 4 0.7 4 no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! ew jersuck ey uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 5 52.7 0.5 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 5 no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! ew 5 50.0 0.5 5 no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! ew york 3uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 57.8 40.5 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .5 3uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! orth c like cuno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! t arolino newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! a uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 5 56.uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 5 no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! orth dakota 3 35.5 62.9 3 ohio 20 48.5 5uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .0 20 oklahomierda... a 7 7 7 5uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .5 47.5 7 peno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! suck ylvano newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! ia 2uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 50.8 48.6 2uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! isuck lano newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! d 4 59.5 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .0 4 suck outh 8 40.8 0.3 8 dakota 3 59.9 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 3 teno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! no newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! esuck suck ee uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 42.5 56.8 0.4 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! texasuck 34 6uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .2 34 utah 5 26.4 7uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .3 5 vermierda... ono newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! t 3 59.uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .4 3 virgino newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! ia uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 3 54.0 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 3 wasuck hino newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! gtono newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 53.0 45.7 0.7 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! wesuck t 5 43.2 56.uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 0.5 5 wisuck c like cuno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! t ono newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! suck ino newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 0 49.8 0.6 uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 0 wyomierda... ino newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! g 3 29.uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! .uno newsuck ??? good newsuck !!! o! 3 California 55 54.6 44.3 55 Colorado 9 46.3 52.5 0.6 9 Connecticut 7 54.3 44.0 0.8 7 Delaware 3 53.3 45.8 0.6 3 D.C. 3 89.5 9.3 0.6 3 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 05:08:51 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit blue coast to blue coast red heart white nite dawn..in the u.s. of a...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 05:34:59 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Pol.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as one of the few (only) on this list who's happy Bush won & wouldn't have been unhappy had Kerry won... let's note that Cheney's daughter and her companion were on the stage when the victory speech was delivered & nothing escapes Karl Rove... if i was going to fix an election i wouldn't program a computer to miscount the vote by a margin of four times the actual vote count these guys you hate..are smart.. get a life... the votes have been counted time to get back to the real world of po... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 06:58:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Operation Homeland Therapy Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Thought this could be of interest -- Pierre > >Operation Homeland Therapy > >The NEA's new writing program for soldiers. > >By Aleksandar Hemon > >Posted Wednesday, Oct. 13, 2004, at 4:39 AM PT > > > >Earlier this spring, Dana Gioia, a poet and the chairman of the =20 > National > >Endowment for Arts,, stood next to Deputy Defense Secretary Paul =20 > Wolfowitz > >at a press conference announcing > >Operation Homecoming: =20 > Writing > >the Wartime Experience. The program, organized by the NEA, is backed =20= > by "a > >memorandum of understanding with the Department of Defense" and "made > >possible" by the Boeing Corp., which has supplied $250,000 of its =20= > $300,000 > >cost. Well under way by now, Operation Homecoming organizes writing > >workshops for returning troops and their families at military > >installations across the country and abroad. The workshops are =20 > conducted > >by a list of distinguished writers that includes Tom Clancy, Richard > >Bausch, Mark Bowden, Bobbie Ann Mason, Tobias Wolff, and others. Some = =20 > of > >the poems, letters, personal narratives, stories, memories, journal > >writing, etc., to come out of these workshops will end up in the =20 > Operation > >Homecoming anthology, which will be published in the next couple of =20= > years. > >According to Operation Homecoming's Web site: "Military personnel, > >reservists, National Guard members, and Coalition Authority members =20= > who > >served after September 11, 2001, especially in Oper ation Enduring =20= > Freedom > >and Operation Iraqi Freedom, as well as their immediate families, are > >eligible to submit writing for consideration in the published =20 > anthology." > > > >The situation of a poet and a war-mongering ideologue sharing the =20 > stage is > >odious in itself, but it also raises a tricky question: What is the =20= > real > >purpose of the project? The poet Gioia > > writingwartimeexperience.html>asserts > >in the introduction on the Operation Homecoming Web site that "[o]ne > >cannot tell a story of our nation without also telling the story of =20= > our > >wars," as if the task of literature and writers were to tell the =20 > stories > >of the nation. This standard tenet of nationalism-that writers, just = =20 > like > >everyone else, serve the nation=E2=E2?"is necessarily ideological and = =20 > stacks > >the odds against the writers who prefer to tell a different national > >story. Even if telling the story of "our nation" were a worthy, > >ideologically benign project, even if the same old American story of > >greatness and victimhood were not being told over and over again, =20= > would > >Operation Homecoming let a soldier like Sean Haze be part of it? =20 > "Months > >have passed since I've been back home," writes Prt. Haze, whose =20 > letter is > >quoted in Michael Moore's > > qid=3D1097622299/sr=3D8-1/ref=3Dpd_csp_1/002-8769364-8731215?=20 > v=3Dglance&s=3Dbooks&n=3D507846>Will > >They Ever Trust Us Again? Letters =46rom the War Zone, "and the =20 > unfortunate > >conclusion I've come to is that Bush is a lying, manipulative =20 > motherfucker > >who cares nothing for the lives of those of us who serve in =20 > uniform." If > >the story of the Iraq disaster is to be told, Pvt. Haze would have =20= > to be > >in it, and so would the crimes in Abu Ghraib, as well as the =20 > adventures of > >various "contractors," the shadowy part of our nation that includes > >foreign mercenaries with vast wartime experience in South African =20 > death > >squads or Serbian ethnic-cleansing militias. > > > >Operation Homecoming wants its participants to write the story of the = =20 > war > >that produces almost as many casualties as lies. "And these often > >harrowing tales are best told by the men and women who lived them," =20= > writes > >Gioia poetically. As a matter of fact, the story would be much better = =20 > told > >by those who died in Iraq, but they do not get to tell any stories, = to > >participate in workshops, or to come home-except in the coffins that =20= > under > >a Pentagon policy prohibiting media coverage of human remains are not = =20 > to > >be seen on television or in newspapers. > > > >There is no doubt that some valuable writing-both as history and > >literature-could comeome out of Operation Homecoming. But even if the = =20 > good > >people of the NEA and their writing instructors have nothing but the > >purest intentions in their hearts; even if workshops serve as some =20= > form of > >group therapy; even if the NEA received blanket security clearance =20= > from > >Wolfowitz and the Department of Defense to publish whatever would =20 > further > >the understanding of the war experience-e ven if all that were the =20= > case, > >any account of Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom that =20 > does not > >include testimonies of the freedom-shocked Iraqis cannot avoid being = a > >lie. A similar lie is at the heart of the Vietnam War mythology, = built > >around the fallacious belief that the main victims of the war in =20 > Vietnam > >were Americans, even if for every dead American soldier there were =20= > dozens > >of dead Vietnamese civilians. If in those workshops the American epic = =20 > of > >greed and power is being translated into another self-help manual of > >national victimhood, then the result will be nothing but therapeutic > >propaganda. > > > >Despite all that-or indeed because of all that-Operation Homecoming =20= > is a > >project of great importance, inasmuch as the soldier writers will =20 > have to > >face the same tricky questions that many other writers, readers, and > >citizens face today: How real is my experience? To what extent is my > >experience our experience? And what the hell is real here, anyway? In > >American war fiction, such questions have already been gloriously =20 > asked by > >Kurt Vonnegut, for whom war was akin to an apocalyptic hallucination > >(Slaughterhouse-Five); by Joseph Heller, who understood World War II = =20 > as a > >set of adjustable fantasies of those who managed it (Catch-22); and =20= > by Tim > >O'Brien (The Things They Carried), who defied the tradition of war =20= > realism > >by fragmenting his narrative and constantly questioning his > >reality-producing methods. The Iraqi war is still waiting for a =20 > writer who > >could match the magnitude of the failure, someone who could address =20= > the > >current debacle of American reality. > > > >For the flimsy fiction of "the war on terror," produced by the Bush =20= > regime > >in cooperation with the obedient media, funded by Boeing and other > >corporations, has all but displaced what until Sept. 11 was =20 > recognizable > >as common reality. The old Wittgensteinian thought that "The world = is > >facts in logical space" has been transformed into the Bushian "The =20= > world > >is claims in faith-based space." Bush and his cronies are the rich > >people's postmodernists: Reality is negotiable, except the =20 > negotiations > >take place in the remote domain of the political and corporate =20 > elites; the > >truth of a statement is measured by its deniability; and the purpose =20= > of > >language is to defer indefinitely meaning and, therefore, =20 > understanding. > > > >The question for all writers, the homecoming ones included, is how to = =20 > deal > >with the social and cultural situation dominated by the perversely > >postmodern Bushist ideology. Its operations make the world, America, = =20 > and > >the life of every human being more unreal and fictitious by the day, =20= > so > >plain old literary fiction, versed in the business of producing or > >deconstructing realities, is going to have to do some work. =20 > Contemporary > >fiction has to develop new models to access, dismantle, and =20 > reassemble the > >fictional world of the Bushed America and thus reinsert facts back =20= > into > >our logical space. It has to excavate true human experience from =20 > under the > >debris of Operations Enduring Freedom and American Victimhood. It =20= > needs to > >restore the belief in the power of nonnegotiable human truth and so =20= > create > >home-in-language for those who are dead or lost in lies. A different > >Operation Homecoming is ahead of us. American fiction is going to =20 > have to > >reclaim American reality. > >Novelist Aleksandar Hemon is a 2004 MacArthur fellow and the author = of > > qid=3D1087226442/sr=3D1-1/ref=3Dsr_1_1/103-4035224-7734232?=20 > v=3Dglance&s=3Dbooks>The > >Question of Bruno and > > qid=3D1087226442/sr=3D1-2/ref=3Dsr_1_2/103-4035224-7734232?=20 > v=3Dglance&s=3Dbooks>Nowhere > >Man. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Always keep the tempo -- Steve Lacy =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street=09 Albany NY 12210 =09 h: 518 426 0433 =09 c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 =09= email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 08:47:24 -0500 Reply-To: David Nemeth Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Nemeth Subject: Re: Call For Submissions: inquisitions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some Clarification While everyone understands what is meant by "visual" poetry, some are hung up on the defintion of "textual" poetry, it is the word and line poetry (the bricks and mortar) of experimental/avant poets; it is what most of you write day in and day out. HTH On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:38:57 -0500, David Nemeth wrote: > inquisitions: an experimental poetry journal > http://inquisitions.nemski.com/ >=20 > inquisition > Inquisition as the act of inquiring, an investigation, the process of inq= uiry. >=20 > "In 1925 Borges stated that his title aimed to dissociate > "inquisition" once and for all from monks' cowls and the smoke of > damnation. After an inquisitorial pursuit of his own work, the effort > continues." >=20 > =E2=80=94James E. Irby, Introduction to Jorge Luis Borges' Other Inquisit= ions, > Austin, Texas: The University of Texas Press, 1964, 1993. >=20 > submission guidelines > inquisitions is a poetry journal specializing in experimental/avant > work by textual and visual poets. Poets can send in 3 to 10 poems. > Essays on poetics are appreciated. Textual work accepted in most any > format (txt, doc, email body, etc.). Simultaneous or previously > published work is not accepted. All submissions should be addressed to > inquisitions@gmail.com. Please include INQUISITIONS SUBMISSION in the > subject line. >=20 > visual poetry note > Visual poetry should be submitted in jpg format. Visual poems larger > than 11.5 cm by 17 cm (approx 4.5" by 6.7") will be resized for > printing. The magazine will be published in black and white. >=20 > translation poetry note > Translations are encouraged though original should be included for > publication. Translators should also provide proof of translator's > rights. >=20 > copyright > All rights revert back to author after publication. >=20 > editor > David Nemeth >=20 > editorial advisory board > Nick Piombino, Chris Murray, Geof Huth, Tom Beckett and Anny Ballardini. >=20 --=20 http://www.nemksi.com http://db.etreee.com/nemski ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 09:40:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Elshtain Subject: no cover-up MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit CNN.com - Putin clears way for Kyoto pact - Nov 5, 2004 BBC NEWS | Europe | Putin clears way for Kyoto treaty UPI, ABC, NBC, NPR, CBS, Reuters, USAToday...National Business News...Business Week,,,the Japan Times, The Wichita Eagle, for god's sake....this has been all over the news. Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:25:28 -0600 From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Putin signs Kyoto protocol ..This is the story you'll see covered up by the major U.S. news media. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this story doesn't make it to the eyes and ears of 90% of this country.... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 10:48:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sina Queyras In-Reply-To: <20041107050315.2FF1C181F@annwn4.rutgers.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey you all, just to let you know that canada isn't 'away' from anything. and in canada the left is not in power. the left is in opposition. it gets things done in opposition. and it has its own radical right wing factions to battle. sina >> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:31:57 -0330 From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Unhappy Democrats Must Wait to Get Into Canada Published on Thursday, November 4, 2004 by Reuters Unhappy Democrats Must Wait to Get Into Canada by David Ljunggren OTTAWA - Disgruntled Democrats seeking a safe Canadian haven after President Bush won Tuesday's election should not pack their bags just yet. Canadian officials made clear on Wednesday that any U.S. citizens so fed up with Bush that they want to make a fresh start up north would have to stand in line like any other would-be immigrants -- a wait that can take up to a year. "Let me tell you -- if they're hard-working honest people, there's a process, and let them apply," Immigration Minister Judy Sgro told Reuters. Asked whether American applicants would get special treatment, she replied: "No, they'll join the crowd like all the other people who want to come to Canada." There are anywhere from 600,000 to a million Americans living in Canada, which leans more to the left than the United States and has traditionally favored the Democrats over the Republicans. But statistics show a gradual decline in U.S. citizens coming to work and live in Canada, which has an ailing health care system and relatively high levels of personal taxation. Government officials, real estate brokers and Democrat activists said that while some Americans might talk about moving to Canada rather than living with a new Bush administration, they did not expect a mass influx. "It's one thing to say 'I'm leaving for Canada' and quite another to actually find a job here and wonder about where you're going to live and where the children are going to go to school," said one official. Roger King of the Toronto-based Democrats Abroad group said he had heard nothing about a possible exodus of party members. "I imagine most committed Democrats will want to stay in the United States and continue being politically active there," he said. Americans seeking to immigrate can apply to become permanent citizens of Canada, a process that often takes a year. Becoming a full citizen takes a further three years. The other main way to move north on a long-term basis is to find a job, which in all cases requires a work permit. This takes from four to six months to come through. Statistics show the number of U.S. workers entering Canada dropped to 15,789 in 2002 from 21,627 in 2000. In 1981 some 10,030 Americans gained permanent residency, compared to 5,541 in 2003. Asked if there had been signs of increased U.S. interest, Sgro said: "Not yet, but we'll see tomorrow." The Canadian foreign ministry said there had been no increase in hits on the Washington embassy's immigration Web site, while housing brokers doubted they would see a surge in U.S. business. "Canada's always open and welcoming to Americans who want to relocate here, but we don't think it would be a trend or movement," said Gino Romanese of Royal Lepage Residential Real Estate Services. Those wishing to move to Canada could always take a risk and claim refugee status -- the path chosen earlier this year by two U.S. deserters who opposed the Iraq war. "Anybody who enters Canada who claims refugee status will be provided with a work permit...it doesn't matter what country they're from," said an immigration ministry spokeswoman. Refugee cases are handled by special boards, which can take months to decide whether to admit applicants. The rulings can be appealed and opposition politicians complain some people ordered deported have been in Canada for 10 years or more. With additional reporting by Randall Palmer in Ottawa and Larissa Liepins in Toronto Copyright 2004 Reuters Ltd -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 07:59:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is becoming a haven for young artists. By the way, I hear now that 74% of Portlanders voted for Kerry. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Bradshaw" To: Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 12:55 PM Subject: Re: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon > Yes, being one who lives in Portland I want to add that we also re-elected > the city council member who took the initiative to give out hundereds of > marraige licenses to same sex couples this last spring, as well as > re-electing some of those "activist judges" Bush is so fond of. As far as > the medical marijuana measure is concerned, the measure itself was quite > convoluted and, if it would have passed, would have added many more > bureaucratic layers to the whole process of obtaining eligibility for the > med, and, once eligible, obtaining the med itself. Right now the process is, > comparatively, much simpler. Which is why I think it did not pass. > > So Portland has a progressive majority. And a big book store. And the city > is affordable. Now we just more (good) poets to move here.... > > JB > > > > > >I don't know why it didn't pass, except that we do have a law and many > >people weren't ready to expand it. I think people feel insecure right now, > >and they should be. Meanwhile, Oregon went to Kerry by a wide margin. > >Oregonians voted to protect our forests from greedy logging. Portland > >elected a liberal mayor and the first openly-gay member of the City > >Council. > >And Portlanders turned down a try by the right-wing to rescind a three-year > >tax we placed on ourselves in order to keep our schools open for the whole > >school year, and for other social uses. We're dismayed at the country, but > >proud of ourselves. > > > >-Joel > > > >_______________________________________ > > > >Joel Weishaus > >Visiting Faculty > >Department of English > >Portland State University > >Portland, Oregon > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Gwyn McVay" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:43 AM > >Subject: Re: Aggressive Moralists and the Gay Weapon > > > > > > > > Not exactly. That solid blue strip on the left edge of the election > >night > > > > map included Oregon -- which passed an anti-gay marriage law. > > > > > > > And go figure this: Oregon, allegedly a liberal state, failed to pass an > > > expansion of the 1998 Oregon Medical Marijuana Act. Alaska's also went > >up > > > in smoke, har har. Montana, the stereotypical land of guns and ranchers, > > > actually PASSED a medical-marijuana ballot initiative. > > > > > > It's more complicated out there than the rightists want us to think it > >is. > > > > > > Gwyn > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:25:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: ELECTION INFO QUESTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only central depositories of this kind of data would be the DNC & and RNC. Otherwise it would have to be accumulated by a third party source (media), or pieced together state by state from their election commissions... And then there's karl Rove's laptop... the one he keeps in the trunk of his liquid blue fire Jaguar... Gerald Schwartz > Does anybody know where I could find a map or stats that would explain > state by state or, preferably, county by county, where the 40% of adults who > didn't vote might live. I don't know if it will prove anything, but I think > it would be important to find.... > > Chris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 09:24:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: ACTION ALERT!! Bush serious about nationwide ban on gay marriage, Rove says In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ACTION ALERT!! http://transdada.blogspot.com/ DO NOT LET THEM WEAR US DOWN... their hate agenda is just beginning!!!! Karl Rove is pushing their puppet george bush to have a nationwide ban=20= on gay marriage. this must be stopped now!! take action to day... support organizations that will be on the front=20 line... organize, support and continue to call politicians and stop=20 this hate now...!! we must not let up, or fascism, hate, bigotry and segregation will=20 continue!!! Bush serious about nationwide ban on gay marriage, Rove says Associated Press WHITE HOUSE - A top strategist in the White House says President Bush=20 is serious about banning gay marriage nationwide, but wants states to=20 look at other issues for same-sex couples. Senior political adviser=20 Karl Rove says a national ban on same-sex marriage is the only way to=20 make sure ``activist judges'' don't redefine marriage. But Rove also=20 says states should decide other issues for gay couples -- including=20 insurance benefits, inheritance and visitation rights in hospitals, http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/5072827.html SUPPORT THE FOLLOWING http://www.transgenderlaw.org/news.htm Transgender Law http://www.transgenderlawcenter.org/ Transgender Law Center - SF http://www.aclu.org/ ACLU http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/about/nhq/index Lambda Legal http://www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/home.html GLSEN http://www.gpac.org/ GPAC http://www.hrc.org/ HRC http://www.moveonpac.org/ Move On http://www.naral.org/ NARAL http://www.ncai.org/ NCAI http://www.NCLrights.org/ NCLrights http://www.thetaskforce.org/ NGLTF http://ntac.org/ NTAC http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/ People for an American way http://www.pflag.org/ PFLAG http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Sunday, November 07, 2004 -In Open Letter to Civil Libertarians, ACLU Calls for Redoubled Effort=20= to Counter =93Unrelenting Assault=94 on Civil Liberties -School Supervisor's Remarks on Bullying Show Lack of Understanding,=20 Says GPAC -Gast trial postponed to Nov. 15 -Transgender Man's Case Tests U.S. Immigration Law -Hundreds protest Iraq war -Student Victim of Anti-gay Vandal -Undaunted Leno revs up marriage issue -Businesses with gay clienteles vandalized -MSU may reconsider gay policy -Gay parade protests discrimination -Florida's Southern Baptists Want Constitutional Ban On Gay Unions -Old man mugged in Tokyo's gay quarter -Gay married couples in Ore. rush to protect their benefits -Gay community fears new era of intolerance -Controversy: Is freedom just another word? -Florida Relegates Some Gay Parents To 2nd-Class Status -49th Parallel Gay Divide and more http://transdada.blogspot.com/ thank you kari ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 12:26:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: "Charles Baldwin" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: interview with Jim Rosenberg + loop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline An on poetics interview with Jim Rosenberg, author of digital poetry http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/loop/nu_dex/interview.html The Loop '04 is at http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/loop/. Edited and produced by WVU students, with digital creativity from West Virginia and worldwide. Work by Matt Roberson, Kenji Siratori, Geli Tripping, and others. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 13:18:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 20 Now Available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please forward --------------- Boog City 20, November 2004 Available featuring: --Columnist Tom Gogola on his last days as a mate helping people fish from a Sheepshead Bay party boat --East Village editor Paulette Powell's beat report on artist Lee Harvey, with one of his comic strips, too Our Printed Matter section, edited by Joanna Sondheim, featuring reviews by: --Steve Dalachinsky on Wanda Phipps’ Wake Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems --Geoff Huth on Maria Damon and mIEKAL aND.’s E.n.t.r.a.n.c.e.d Music editor Jon Berger on Coyote Shivers’ new double album Our Poetry section, edited by Carol Mirakove, features work from: --John Coletti --Rob Fitterman --hassen --Karen Weiser Art editor Brenda Iijima brings us work from Houston artist Robyn O’Neil --and the November installment of the NYC Poetry Calendar, now under Boog management. The calendar lists every reader at every reading in the five boroughs, thanks to the assistance of Jackie Sheeler of www.poetz.com, who generously shares her information with us, and Bob Holman and the Bowery Poetry Club for sponsoring it. And huge kudos go out to Tara Lambeth for compiling the data for the calendar. Please patronize our advertisers: Bowery Poetry Club * www.bowerypoetry.com Mercury Press * www.themercurypress.ca Olive Juice Music * www.olivejuicemusic.com Poets for Peace * www.poetsagainstthewar.org Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-2664 You can pick up Boog City for free at the following locations (thanks to Nathaniel Siegel for his help distributing): East Village Acme Bar and Grill alt.coffee Angelika Film Center and Café Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings Bowery Poetry Club Cafe Pick Me Up CBGB's CB's 313 Gallery C-Note Continental Lakeside Lounge Life Cafe The Living Room Mission Cafe Nuyorican Poets Café Pianos The Pink Pony Shakespeare & Co. St. Mark's Books St. Mark's Church Sunshine Theater Tonic Tower Video Trash and Vaudeville Other parts of Manhattan Hotel Chelsea Poets House in Williamsburg Bliss Cafe Clovis Press Earwax Galapagos Northsix Sideshow Gallery Spoonbill & Sugartown Supercore Cafe -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 13:36:33 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: differencebetween bill&john MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was sad to hear of Clinton saying from his hospital bed that Kerry NEEDED to EMBRACE the ban on gay marriage. Kerry would not listen. And it wasn't Kerry in bed with a destroyed and failing heart. CAConrad http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 13:40:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Poetic Inhalation online (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY="0-1497111101-1099852774=:20776" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1497111101-1099852774=:20776 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=X-UNKNOWN; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-ID: ************************** Poetic Inhalation is a monthly art + literary e-magazine featuring the poetry journal Tin Lustre Mobile, e-books, creative writing, + chapbook reviews. Submissions are always welcome. Our guidelines may be found at... http://www.poeticinhalation.com/biography.html Please enjoy the November 2004 edition... =2E..tin lustre mobile volume 4 issue 7 illustrated by thomas fink... poetry by g. calhoun truluck fortunato caragliano ishle park jd nelson steve timm shannon holman w.b keckler http://www.poeticinhalation.com/tlm_v4i7.html =2E..creative writing.... spade: cantos 16 - 18 by richard denner + david bromige illustrated by s. mutt the day georgiana wished too much by polycarp kusch illustrated by jad fair excerpt from dolls by tom whalen illustrated by rokko spider the line by raymond federman http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_creativewriting.html =2E..plus... an interview with richard denner + david bromige conducted by the esteemed bouvard p=E9cuchet... http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_interview_spade.html =2E..feature e-books... living in translated space by sheila murphy illustrated by jiha moon zz art + poetry by alan sondheim please understand my plant by john tyson cover art by john shimon http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_featureartist.html =2E..chapbook reviews... ric carfagna reviews "last chap" by jonathan penton kevin killian reviews "cocktails" by d.a. powell http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_reviews.html poetic cheerz... a + j :-) co-founders/managing editors http://www.poeticinhalation.com/ **************************************** --0-1497111101-1099852774=:20776-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 13:53:00 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: ACTION ALERT!! Bush serious about nationwide ban on gay marriage, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kari, thanks for sending this. There is a debate I've encountered in the last few days I'd like to address. It's being said by people I speak with and it's being said on news shows that it was not an anti gay vote, but a vote against gay marriage. It's getting tired for me, very quickly. Yes, it WAS and IS anti gay. There were no gloves on those fists in the voting booths. A coworker--with the best intentions--said, "Well I would think that gay bashing will now be at an all time low since so many people think gays are put in their place. And that's a good thing." As nice as it may be to hear someone try to find the positive, it's simply not true. There is a recklessness that goes along with the victor who won on moral ground. When I was outed in my redneck town as a kid AIDS was making the news at the same time. Reagan's moral stand to shun the subject set the grounds for horrible treatment of gay people all over this country. Firsthand I know this. If gay people can literally be kicked when they're down and so many are dying, there certainly will be no hesitation to beat and kill gays any less now. CAConrad http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 19:10:44 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Bradshaw Subject: William Fox and David Abel Tonight, Spare Room Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Spare Room presents . . . William Fox & David Abel Sunday, November 7th 7:30 pm Mountain Writers Center 3624 SE Milwaukie Ave. $5 suggested donation. www.flim.com/spareroom e-mail: spareroom@flim.com dial-a-poem: 503-236-0867 Coming up soon: December 12 Doug Nufer & Lisa Radon ------ William Fox is a poet, artist, critic, and essayist. He has published fifteen collections of poetry, and six books of nonfiction about art, cognition, and landscape. He was the editor of West Coast Poetry Review magazine and books from 1972 to 1988, which published poets as disparate as William Stafford and Ian Hamilton Finlay, and was one of the few presses in the United States at the time to give serious attention to concrete poetry. For the past ten years he has been a full-time writer, whose research takes him to some of the most remote regions on the planet. He currently resides in Los Angeles. Recent books of poetry include Reading Sand: Selected Desert Poems, 1975-2000 (University of Nevada) and One Wave Standing (La Alameda Press); of nonfiction, Playa Works: The Myth of the Empty (University of Nevada) and The Void, the Grid, and the Sign: Traversing the Great Basin (University of Utah). He lives in Los Angeles, where he has recently completed books on the Antarctic (Tierra Antarctica) and Las Vegas (In the Desert of Desire), forthcoming from Trinity University and University of Nevada, respectively, and is working on a book about Mars. David Abel is a poet, editor, bookseller, raga singer, and poker player who moved to Portland in 1997. One of the instigators of the Spare Room reading series, his recent publications include A Reading of a Reading of Ashes (envelope #6), "Frozen Sea" in foArm #2, and "Threnos" (sewn on a thirty-seven-foot ribbon by Katherine Kuehn). "Embargo" appears online in the current issue of Slope (www.slope.org), and "Dual Coup" is forthcoming in foArm #3. He is the author of a chapbook of poems, Cut (Situations, NYC), and the long collage text "Conduction" in the exhibition catalogue Conduit, devoted to the work of artist Anna Hepler (Modular Unit Design, Seoul, Korea), as well as the artist's books Rose and Selected Durations (collaborations with Katherine Kuehn, published at the Salient Seedling Press). Other recent Portland manifestations include a solo performance ("Closet Drama") and performances with the ensemble ChuNiMu at the Second Annual Spare Room Sound Poetry Festival, and a repeat performance as one of Linda Austin's Boris & Natasha Dancers in PICA's TBA Festival. _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:15:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: ACTION ALERT!! Bush serious about nationwide ban on gay marriage, In-Reply-To: <27.65fd7807.2ebfc90c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do not know why people voted they way they did.. but if a party can not press the issues or folks are more concerned about abortion, queers and whether creationism is being taught in schools, instead of a raging war, a 7 trillion dollar deficit, HIV-AIDS crisis, pollution, global warming, massive world civil rights violation (including the sudan - where rape seems to be a past time), water shortages, oil storages.. on and on.. well then.. maybe they are either making excuses and look for a scapegoat or they are asking the wrong question... I think it show just how insular the population is... k On Sunday, November 7, 2004, at 10:53 AM, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > kari, thanks for sending this. > > There is a debate I've encountered in the last few days > I'd like to address. It's being said by people I speak with > and it's being said on news shows that it was not an > anti gay vote, but a vote against gay marriage. > > It's getting tired for me, very quickly. Yes, it WAS and > IS anti gay. There were no gloves on those fists in > the voting booths. > > A coworker--with the best intentions--said, "Well I would > think that gay bashing will now be at an all time low since > so many people think gays are put in their place. And > that's a good thing." > > As nice as it may be to hear someone try to find the positive, > it's simply not true. There is a recklessness that goes > along with the victor who won on moral ground. > > When I was outed in my redneck town as a kid AIDS was > making the news at the same time. Reagan's moral stand > to shun the subject set the grounds for horrible treatment > of gay people all over this country. Firsthand I know this. > > If gay people can literally be kicked when they're down > and so many are dying, there certainly will be no > hesitation to beat and kill gays any less now. > > CAConrad > http://phillysound.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:39:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: differencebetween bill&john MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill CLinton's urge for expediancy should never me underestimated: - a few short weeks before the New Hampshire Primary, he moved up, yes, moved forward... the execution of a partially brain-damaged man on death row (one, who incidently suffered the brain damge while on death row); - hele out the campaign-time hope of changing the military's stand on gays in service, only to drop it flat two months into his first term... never again to re-visit the issue. With the Clintons, be wary and verify often. Gerald Schwartz > It was sad to hear of Clinton saying from his > hospital bed that Kerry NEEDED to EMBRACE > the ban on gay marriage. > > Kerry would not listen. > > And it wasn't Kerry in bed with > a destroyed and failing heart. > > CAConrad > http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:50:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Fw: [aim] "In Remembrance" - wear "white" January 20, 2005 Comments: To: Tony Bowen , Kimberly Bowen , Kevin Okeefe , Vince DeCarlo , Ginger Stopa , Nikki Shapiro , Donna Fruehauf , Mike Kosiak , Mike Norwood , Guy Pillette , samuel davis , Randy Cialone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Donna=20 To: aim=20 Cc: EAGLES FLY ; COUNCILFIRE ; amerindian ; american-indians-coyotes-lis = ; american_indians_news_source_tulanappes_list@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 10:22 PM Subject: [aim] "In Remembrance" - wear "white" January 20, 2005 -----Original Message----- From: Treaty1851=20 Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 6:24 PM To: paula =20 Subject: Wear "white" There will be a memorial in honor of the more than 200,000+ Iraqi = civilians killed since the U.S. invasion/occupation of the "tiny country = with big oil." Supporters are asking that on January 20, 2005, people wear "white" in = rememberance to those innocent "people of color" who have lost their = lives due to corporate greed and religion-sanctioned genocide for oil. =20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 ADVERTISEMENT =20 =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aim/ =20 b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: aim-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of = Service.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 14:09:03 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Pol.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit but - but - BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Nudel" To: Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 11:34 PM Subject: Pol.... > as one of the few (only) on this list > who's happy Bush won > & wouldn't have been unhappy > had Kerry won... > > let's note that Cheney's > daughter and her companion > were on the stage when > the victory speech was delivered > & nothing escapes Karl Rove... > > if i was going to fix an election > i wouldn't program a computer > to miscount the vote by a margin > of four times the actual vote count > these guys you hate..are smart.. > get a life... > > the votes have been counted > time to get back > to the real world of po... > > > > drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:38:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: International Sephardic Journal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Reply-To: "ISFSP" >From: "ISFSP" >Subject: International Sephardic Journal >Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:21:47 -0500 >X-Priority: 3 >X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > >Dear xxx: > >Would you be so kind as to consider distributing this CFP among your >students and colleagues. The International Sephardic Journal is open >to all, including undergraduate students. > >Best regards, > >Shelomo Alfassa > >____________________________________ >Shelomo Alfassa >Executive Director >International Society for Sephardic Progress >www.ISFSP.org > >Publisher of the International Sephardic Journal >www.SephardicJournal.org > > > Orlando, FL USA >________________________ > > Call for Papers > > International Sephardic Journal > > Volume 2. No. 1 Spring 2005 > > September 28, 2004 - The International Society for Sephardic >Progress is welcoming submissions for Volume 2. of its official >publication, the International Sephardic Journal, a >multi-disciplinary refereed publication featuring scholarly works >related to Sephardim (the descendants of the Jews of historic Spain, >Portugal, North Africa and the Levant {including the former Ottoman >Empire} who share common religious and cultural bonds). The >International Sephardic Journal, winner of the prestigious 2004-2005 >Fromer Award for "potential significant impact on the Jewish >community", is the only primarily English language refereed >publication in the world dedicated to Sephardic Jewry. > > All interested scholars, rabbis, and professionals, including >university students and independent researchers, are invited to >submit papers. Proposed topics may include, but are not limited to: >Sephardic/Mizrahi history, culture, language, religion (halakhot, >minhagim), diaspora, biographies, Sephardic life and experience in >the Americas, Europe, Asia or Africa. Topics related to Anusim and >crypto-Jewish populations, as well as Sephardic interaction with >non-Jewish communities are also welcome. > > In addition, contemporary topics such as modern Sephardic society, >politics, religion, psychology, and science related to Sephardim >will be considered. The International Sephardic Journal also >welcomes first-person memoirs of the Sephardic experience for its >"Portals to the Past" section, and book reviews of current >publications relating to Sephardic life, culture, or religion. > > Submissions may be made by e-mail, please visit the website for the >email address. Please include name, institutional affiliation (if >applicable), address, phone number, e-mail address, paper title, and >short abstract in the body of the e-mail. Attach the article, in MS >Word format. The deadline for submissions is January 10, 2005. > > Although based in the United States, the ISFSP is an advocacy >organization representing Sephardim internationally. It functions to >produce high quality Jewish educational projects and publications >which will help teach the public about the vibrant Sephardic Jewish >communities, past and present. > > >Those interested may learn more at >http://sephardicjournal.org/call.html -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 21:59:44 -0500 Reply-To: Geoffrey Gatza Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Organization: BlazeVOX [books] Subject: Mobilis in Mobili Poetry Prize Comments: To: "Chef Geoff C=:-)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mobilis in Mobili Poetry Prize $1000 prize and book publication from BlazeVOX [books] Moving within the moving element! or changing through change! This is Nemo's motto for his Nautilus and it seems all too fitting for our poetry prize. There is something happening right now in poetry that is very exciting. It is neither a recreation of Stein's salon nor is it a thing of substance to fill the empty souls of man. There is something coming down like the winds outside, the rainfall. Something that speaks like the rains outside. It's all moving but not necessarily moving towards a specific direction. And in this contest we are in hope of promoting this underrated work. 3 runners-up receive ebook publication Final judge: Kent Johnson download guidelines in printable PDF format The BlazeVOX Prize for Poetry is awarded annually for an original manuscript of poems. The contest is open to poets either with or without previously published books. BlazeVOX [books] Press publishes the winning manuscript, and the author receives a $1,000 award and publication of the winning manuscript. The first three runners-up will be have their winning manuscript published as an electronic book with BlazeVOX [books]. electronic submissions [preferred] email .DOC; .PDF, of .RTF files as an attachment contest@blazevox.org and mail fee to below address snail mail to BlazeVOX Poetry Prize PO Box 303 Buffalo NY 14201-303 Contest Administration Fee: $20 2004-2005 Submissions: All manuscripts will be judged anonymously. Submissions will be accepted between October 1 and January 30, 2005. The award winner will be announced in July/August 2005, and publication scheduled for Spring 2006. Guidelines Manuscripts must be paginated and be between 50 and 110 pages in typescript. Manuscripts will be judged anonymously. Each submission should have two cover pages-one listing the title of the manuscript and the author's name, address, phone number, and email address; and a second page listing only the title. The author's name should not appear after the first cover page. Electronic Submission entries to: Send your reading fee of $20 to the snail mail address, below. Then send your manuscript as an email attachment to contest@blazevox.org. Please send the manuscript either as an Adobe pdf file or an MS Word file saved in either, .doc or rich text format (rtf). In your email, give your name and contact information, as well as the title of your manuscript and a short author bio/publication history. Include only the title on your manuscript, with no mention of the author's name. If you wish, include a self-addressed postcard for notification that we have received both your manuscript and fee, as well as the SASE for contest results. Any questions may also be referred to contest@blazevox.org. *Note: This is not a hypertext or electronic poetry contest. This is a means by which you can send your manuscript to BlazeVOX electronically. Mail all entries to: There will be a reading fee of $20. Please do not send cash. The contest is blind-judged, so the author's name and contact information should appear on title page and nowhere else in manuscript. A second title page with only the manuscript title should also be included. Please mail to : BlazeVOX Poetry Prize PO Box 303 Buffalo NY 14201-303 The Press and the board assume no responsibility for lost or damaged manuscripts, and suggest that you retain a copy for your protection. Ineligible Submissions 1. Manuscripts by more than one author. 2. Entries of more than one manuscript within the same year. 3. Translations. 4. Manuscripts from staff and interns of BlazeVOX and or Starcherone Books, and former BlazeVOX Prize winners. ** for reasons of streamlining accounting we are gratefully using Starcherone Books resources to accomplish the financial task for this contest. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 23:40:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Taylor Subject: Election Re-action Submission MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Did you write a massive (as in powerful) reaction work to our recent political carnival and care to share it with the world? Please send your submission immediately to submissions@SpiralBridge.org Attach a photo and bio., so as not to waste time, and we'll go through the submissions, pick one and have it on the site like tomorrow. For more info., if this wasn't enough or you prefer being detail oriented, check out http://www.spiralbridge.org/projects.asp Thanks for reading this and have a good one. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 00:07:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: new on ::fait accompli:: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Right now on ::fait accompli:: *Bush's Cult-ural Capital and The Politics of Paranoia **Hot links to cool sites ::fait accompli:: http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 01:17:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: VEL (Blazevox, Alan Sondheim) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed VEL by Alan Sondheim Product Information: POETRY Paperback: 120 pages Perfect-Bound Binding Size: 7.5" x 9.25" ISBN: 0-9759227-4-2 Retail Price: $16.00 blazevox.org/books/as.htm Book Description: A collection of codework poems written by Sondheim while at the Virtual Environment Lab, a research center at West Virginia University, where he visited during the summer of 2004. Baldwin says in his intro, "Sondheim's work is important for its problematic status, as the result of and still part of the work of digital media. As digital writing in a strong sense, Sondheim's writing appears problematically coded - problematic because it is decodable neither as "human-readable" or "machine-readable" but suspended between." http://www.blazevox.org/books/as.htm [from] vellum, velocity: an introduction to VEL by Sandy Baldwin, charles.baldwin@mail.wvu.edu The dictionary tells us that VEL is an abbreviation for vellum, a fine-grained opaque or almost-translucent parchment made from lambskin or calfskin. Vellum is a sensuous, reflective surface. The written word is lit up through the stretched and cured skin. VEL also abbreviates velocity, probably derived from a Latin root for liveliness, today defined as the rate of speed, a derivative of movement through time. The VEL in the title of Alan Sondheim's new book VEL is the acronym for something quite different: Virtual Environment Lab, a research center at West Virginia University, where Sondheim visited and explored during the summer of 2004. Sondheim's collaboration with computer scientists exploited creative mis-use and adaptation of the technologies at the VEL, disrupting and re-distributing built-in assumptions about the imaging and integrity of the human body and the capture of the "real." The experiments at the VEL, preliminary as they were, established the fascination of the problem of "liveness" in virtual environments. Sondheim worked with clusters of data drawn from motion capture systems to map and drive animations, videos, texts, and other artifacts. These data clusters, in their aggregate state as "clusters," capture motion and "life." The results are beautiful and moving, very alien and very human, enigmatic and intimate. Some of the writings collected here are direct results of his work at the VEL; all were written during Sondheim's visit. And so, the meeting of linguistic roots and corporate-strength acronym is appropriate. Sondheim writes on the organic matter of vellum and the velocity of bodies in motion. The technicality of being live and the already virtual velocity of written life is very much the concern here. Sondheim's writing is best described through his own term "codework, the computer stirring into the text, and the text stirring the computer." So, a first take on VEL is its relation to the computer. ... His work is opaquely illuminated by the net. One might think of Alan Sondheim as the Joyce of our time. Too big while he's here among us, or while we're here among him, to get our heads around what he's done and is doing.On the other hand, it's clear he doesn't want to be our Joyce at all, in deliberate, un-scrolling process as he is of immolating himself, incinerating any last trace of canonical identity in a stupendous bonfire of poetry, code, and secret philosophy. What "Joyce" shall be left? What "Sondheim"? A monk burns in full view and the blaze refuses to go out. We're here watching, startled and baffled, contemptuous and titillated. That we don't quite know what fuels the seemingly mystical act renders the transfiguration all the more unsettling and marvelous. Kent Johnson Sondheim's writing refreshes. Narrative or persistent personality the reader constructs will resist. It's funny output, coded, destabilising. It projects, expands and redirects personal need, hunger amidst insubstantial plenty, where the real material is imaginary. Writing without purpose; purposeful writing; not delivery of contentment or white space infill. Writing as individuation of multipliers where what is familiar is parodic as it is manifested, cyborgian tenacity creating its selves in process awareness, sans merci. I is mindful of being confederated awareness. Peripheral desiring bodies remain animal, alone and palely loitering during downtime, mammals with machines, sensuous making intellects. Lawrence Upton Alan Sondheim co-founded the Cybermind and Wryting email lists online. He is editor of Being on Line and author of .echo and Disorders of the Real. His latest book, The Wayward, of the Salt Modern Poets books series, is now available. He publishes widely on Net issues, and his video/sound work is internationally exhibited. He lives in Brooklyn, New York, with his partner, Azure Carter, and their cat, Boojum. Relevant URLS: http://www.asondheim.org/ Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm Sondheim may be reached at sondheim@panix.com. [ Excerpt from VEL ] Cutting the Timber A man lay down across the threshold of the kitchen outside, head within. He was to represent the saw. Two players now took hold of his feet outside, while two others caught his head and shoulders in the kitchen. They pulled against one another, forward and backwards, as if they were sawing wood, until one pair proved too strong for the other. - Irish Wake Amusements, Sean O Suilleabhain, Mercier, cork, 1967, p. 82. the ocean divides one world from another. there is no gravity in division. worlds bracket the ocean. new worlds bracket old oceans and new oceans. the horizon bends crazily with the disorientation of the wounded. troop ships sank quickly in the frigid waters. the _bow_ of the ship _ploughs_ a _furrow_ through the waters. no one is present in this landscape. no one is looking. it is so clean i am sure you will be very happy. _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 01:21:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: char the task of scribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed char the task of scribe http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim/char.mp4 char the task of scribe of Ellen Zweig, myself, embedded in translation, ancient and new texts, thousand character essay, software and wetware, printware and in the distance, just over the horizon, Monkey i'd think with the staff, i'm sure, there, just listening and laughing, echo Click here to get the file Size 5.7 MB - File type video/mp4 Created by sondheim Last modified 2004-11-07 10:34 PM _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 01:49:04 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on the sea the deep sea the deep blue sea dark boat on dark nite slept less...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 23:20:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Jerome Rothenberg Subject: South American trip MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We will be away again, starting this Thursday, the 11th of November, and = not returning until December 13. =20 We'll be traveling this time to the southern part of South America, for = a month of readings and performances in the company of poet & artist = Cecilia Vicu=F1a and photographer & filmmaker Francis Cincotta. The = schedule of sometimes multiple readings will take us to Santiago and = Valparaiso in Chile [Nov. 12 to 20], C=F3rdoba [Nov. 21 & 22] and Buenos = Aires [Nov. 23 to 27] in Argentina, Montevideo in Uruguay [Nov. 28 & = 29], and Curitiba, S=E3o Paolo, and Rio de Janeiro in Brazil [Nov. 30 to = Dec.12]. =20 We will be checking e-mail with as much regularity as possible, for = which you can use this address, or as a backup, = jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com. =20 Phone messages to (760) 436-9923, the home number, also stand some = chance of reaching us. If truly urgent or if you want information = locally about readings, you can try Cecilia Vicu=F1a's cell phone: [011] = 56 93834365 in Chile & possibly beyond, [011] 54 11 4-813-6897 in Buenos = Aires, and through Regis Bonvicino in S=E3o Paolo: [011] 55 11 3825 = 1535. =20 From December 13 to the beginning of April we expect to be mostly at = home. =20 With best & warmest to all of you, =20 Jerome Rothenberg Diane Rothenberg ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 02:52:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: nothing in particular particularly nothing- kristeva MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit so profoundly made….. a scramble after a lecture by kristeva @ nyu added/subtractions (& mischa mengelberg @ tonic) so profoundly influenced by monk (s with habit) body is met a – ( things & words ) valse valse valse - sad-o-mask kit sic dreamless dream (only signs sounds sensations) so round the tick(le) tock on flat wall disruptive (non-narrative) remembrances divine taps - subject/object asthma //\\ ham sat this is a ruin & who’s to say’s not the first time potter has messed with the pot to authenticate history before it had barely be- come a part of it suffocated anal(y sis) is/is sissie issue i-mage = game geni(e)us that part of sheet that is covered w/music covers me this somewhat cold night monitors my rhythms strings my breath to reflectives it’s impossible to re/lie integrity exhal(t)ed on the gritty plane substitutes sorrow immediate (3x) dada rula dada rula genius co-lapse other rehto(ld) < art aud > subs sorrow sub subsumed and tuted "’"""" thoughts -> \ > immediate source for joy i mediate sauce for joy celram celram lose their shape holding the divine w/in an eclipse of magnificence ( cathedral ) narrative = women’s dress i.e. fashion excess(ories) ( stained glass ) zohar hazard i.e. topsy pts 1&2 as in autopsy/biopsy one unity bursting polytheisms ellingtonias monstrous signs ( search ) protean forms subject trials i.e. to beat to eat to be it to eat shit exploring exploding <-> UNITY shatt’ring cont(r)acts avechectic tool preserved tattered phallus perversed a tale of illusions cat as trophy co-presence coversion / spacial / temporal ( o rary ) celeste fresh as a rose w/out matter tho matter is absorbed & merges as in floating I-dents into a fleshy fol-roost he is in the world the world is in him ( a fowl roast - a foul roast ) SELF & OTHER other/self suggest sub/ject you jest flesh of patient transformed transference of identity transference & counter transference conch-et-conch complicated economy censured and sensor/ships sensing non-sense (ing) the body trans/parent the body polit(e)ic body of language body of businessman conclusions moments interpretive theory-peutics freud as be-bop doubt fraud as benev(i)olence permanence of S&M the max of cruelty & delicacy to mobilize the men struals min strels one & all ficial tact gently cutting the endless war of trumphs I conclude cruelty is a recourse to the words of life the dimension Men tion MEN MEN MEN men shun persistence renewed w/in violence when all there is when all there is is the is itself in ex-is- tence in a cruel cruel world in a cruel cruel time where faith & delicacy dwell like a flower carved into a restless soul. dada rula dada rula dada rula steve dalachinsky kristeva at nyu icp orchestra @ tonic 10/04 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:05:59 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Ruth Altman - a new New York School poet 4 more years? Where do we go from here? Joe Brainard - A new memoir by Ron Padgett & the role of memoirs in the NY School Moolaade - Resistance to female circumcision in Burkina Faso (a film by Ousmane Sembene) Voting as tho the nation's future depended on it How do I decide what's right for me? Letting "the Outside" "dictate" "the poem" - Mark Tursi on a Spicerian side of poetics K Silem Mohammad's "A Language Poetry Dossier" - Googlism vs. Google The Motorcycle Diaries - Che the wide-eye med student So where Goest Cole Swensen? Joe Safdie on names, poetry & the redbirds of St. Louis Our 200,000th visitor is. . . "They were tamed by pitchers who, in an era when arms are more delicate than orchids, worked like Iditarod dogs." Writing as an activity vs. writing as a process http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:46:58 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: too fast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In Mexico City an endless river of human dead pours over the wheel of a great mill erected to process the division of life from the living and recycle and perpetuate the irreconcilable difference between thinking things. The planet expresses the Americas from this high place with its stinking air and blanched sensibilities and unreliable stars. In a quantum sense we could be endless, but the spin of things, the concentration of thought, the frantic chasing of tails, the sheer velocity of expression, confounds our relative self-perception, and leaves us unnoticeable to ourselves. What we express goes by faster than we are capable of remembering, and so unaccounted for in our perception of our cosmic reality. If I have fucked for an afternoon, I can never have it again, though it is never gone, because an afternoon is too short to notice in the span of eternal reality, moving too fast to have. If I have raised a child, I cannot have it, because it happened too fast to find again, though it is never gone. If I have written words that stay in print for thousands of years I cannot find them, though they are never gone, for thousands of years is not measurable in eternity, it goes by too fast to notice. We think. We should be asking why we think so fast. Everything always is. We have just set it moving to fast to notice, and so it seems to end. In Mexico City men who think of extension, men who think of survival, men who dream of posterity, men who tweak the control of the spin and speed ever higher, come to parlay with speed merchants, who open emotional windows all over the planet, and sell intellectual wagons to flee and flick about the depth of thinking things, and sell choices to talk or not to talk, to hear or not to hear, to turn men into cities, into nations, into races, to sort and divide and choose, oh horribly choose, the moment: for men cannot go fast enough keep the moment and so become what they emulate: cosmic tramps, transients, self-dispossessed speed inflicted vagabonds. And so the planet becomes the mill, the farm, where unrealized things are built to disappear, where it is pragmatic to sort by color; all controlled by the speed of enlightened civilization, and men seeking an escape to untenable momentary comfort by going faster and faster. There is always movement and rest. Speed does not kill, for nothing is ever gone, but rather it imprisons and can imprison forever, even in quantum theory. We have seen both faces now. In Mexico City Jean got the blues. In Mexico City I could not see the sky, it passed by so fast. Trinidad Cruz by permission ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:35:59 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: living from poem to poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following is snipped from Laura Riding's official website maintained by UNC: She brought to the poetic practice and theory of the day much-needed visionary insights into the roots of poetry's nature and being--roots identified as located in lasting humanly good and truthful values. Those values had existed hitherto half-glimpsed by poets here and there in isolation, but had not been comprehensively formulated as a whole. The poetic climate of the day was one of stale disillusionment, concerning itself with the expression of a cynical technique of disillusion; into this climate Laura Riding tried to breathe, with all she wrote, values of wholeness of thinking and being. For her, poetry was truth, and a poem 'an uncovering of truth of so fundamental and general a kind that no other name besides poetry is adequate except truth.' She saw poetry as having come to a stage of finality in history where the practice of it became 'more real than existence in time--more real because more good, more good because more true.' Poetry, in her view, offered a practical and immediately attainable final reality of being: 'To live in, by, for the reasons of, poems is to habituate oneself to the good existence. When we are so continuously habituated that there is no temporal interruption between one poetic incident (poem) and another, then we have not merely poems--we have poetry; we have not merely the immediacies--we have finality. Literally.' Those three quotations are taken from the Preface to Laura Riding's Collected Poems (1938). Writing of that volume in 1939, the poet and critic Robert Fitzgerald--who was later to produce widely-admired translations of Homer, and who was appointed Boylston Professor of Rhetoric at Harvard--said: 'Of all the contemporary poems I know, these seem to me the furthest advanced, the most personal and the purest. I hope, but hardly believe, that they will be assimilated soon into the general consciousness of literature. The authority, the dignity of truth telling, lost by poetry to science, may gradually be regained. If it is, these poems should one day be a kind of Principia. They argue that the art of language is the most fitting instrument with which to press upon full reality and make it known.'' (Kenyon Review, 1939, pp. 341-345) http://www.unc.edu/~ottotwo/LRJbias.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:19:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sharmila Das Subject: Hi What genres of poetry are you interested in? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:42:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Joshua M. Corey" Subject: Jess Mynes and Christopher Rizzo Reading in Ithaca, NY In-Reply-To: <200411081419.iA8EJUa25245@clipper.jbhs.wi.k12.md.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am pleased and proud to announce the inauguration of a new reading series under the auspices of Soon Productions: Who: Massachusetts poets Jess Mynes and Christopher Rizzo Where: At the State of the Art Gallery at 120 W. State Street in Ithaca, NY. When: 7 PM this Saturday, November 13. A bit about the poets: JESS MYNES lives in Wendell, MA with dog and cat. His poems have appeared in Pettycoat Relaxer and Carve magazine. Two chapbooks of his poems, Thin and The Zookeeper’s Nostalgia, were published by Staple Gun Productions. He is an expert sausage maker. He has a forthcoming collaboration with Aaron Tieger, as well as a forthcoming chapbook from Anchorite Press. He works as a librarian. CHRISTOPHER RIZZO earned his M.A. in Creative Writing from Boston University in 2001. His poems have appeared in several publications, most recently in Art New England, Can We Have Our Ball Back?, and Shampoo. After receiving the S. Andrea Brown Memorial Award in poetry, a short collection of his poems, The Turn, was produced as a play by the Oral Interpretation Society at Emerson. His latest chapbook, Grim Little, is a long collaborative poem written with Mark Lamoureux. He is also the founder and editor of the Anchorite Press, which publishes chapbooks, pamphlets, and broadsides by both established and young poets. He lives in Brighton, Massachusetts. Come and get it while it's hot! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:52:27 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Karl Young added to Blackbox Bill Keith tribute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, Five pieces by Karl Young have been added to Blackbox's Fall 2004 gallery. The Fall gallery is a tribute to the pioneering visual poet, Bill Keith 1929-2004. As always, go to WilliamJamesAustin.com and follow the Blackbox link. Then stroll (scroll) through the galleries until you come to the tribute. Since we at Koja Press published Bill's final book, I will probably be adding Karl Young's Afterward from that publication to the site shortly. Look for it. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:07:32 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 11-08-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WORKSHOP THIS SATURDAY THE WORKING WRITER SEMINAR, with Kathryn Radeff Feature Writing: November 13, 12 p.m. - 4 p.m. $50, $40 for members Feature articles entertain and inform, often covering an interesting angle of a straight news story. This course covers the who, what, where, when, why and how of writing and selling different types of magazine and newspaper features, plus how to approach editors. IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM Special Open Reading Event: Alamgir Hashmi with Don Scheller Poetry Reading. 10 open readers can sign up at 6:45 Wednesday, November 10, 7 p.m. Alamgir Hashmi of Pakistan is a leading anglophone poet and the Oxford Companion to Twentieth-Century Poetry names him as the foremost poet of his generation. Among his many publications are eleven volumes of poetry, which include such noted titles as My Second in Kentucky (1981), A Choice of Hashmi's Verse (1997), and the The Ramazan Libation (2003). He has also published several books of literary criticism. He has been Professor of English and Comparative Literature in the University of Islamabad, Pakistan, and has also taught in universities in Europe and the United States. His work as poet and scholar has won him numerous national and international awards. Don Scheller was born in New Orleans, raised in New York City and has lived in many places that fill the spaces in between. He is an instructor at Erie Community College-City Campus and at Niagara County Community College. Don has been published locally and nationally in a variety of media including photography and the written word. He has also taught creative writing workshops at the college level in several cities. Don says he can't imagine a life without laughter and has, therefore, chosen Buffalo as a place to live. Brendan Lorber, Sasha Steensen & Julie Patton Poetry Reading and Book Release for Steensen's, A Magic Book Friday, November 12, 8 p.m. Brendan Lorber is the editor of LUNGFULL! magazine (www.lungfull.org) & curator of The Zinc Talk / Reading Series. He just finished teaching a workshop at the St. Marks Poetry Project. He's the author of Dash (Situations, 2003) a beguilingly beveled & devellish poem-object bound with a grommet. Also of The Address Book (The Owl Press, 1999), Your Secret (fauxpress.com, 2000), Corvid Aurora (LHB, 2002) and, with Jen Robinson, Dictionary of Useful Phrases (The Gift, 2000). Tracey McTague & he collaborated on Book of the New Now (The Gift, 2002), a series of collages. A longer book of poetry, Welcome Overboard, continues to be in the works. He is the recent recipient of a haircut & has a shave forthcoming. He lives in an old farmhouse in Brooklyn across the street from Green-Wood Cemetery, a 500-acre necroplis. Sasha Steensen is the recipient of the 2004 Alberta Prize for A Magic Book (Fence Books). She co-edits the journal Kiosk: A Journal of Poetry, Poetics, and Experimental Prose, and co-authored Correspondence (Handwritten Press, 2004), a chapbook written in collaboration with Gordon Hadfield. Recent work has appeared in Chain, P-queue, and Enough. Julie Patton's multidimensional poetics encompasses Julibraries, (handmade books and altered texts), Julibrettos (or improvoications) and Ju Ji Pulp-its & Con Texts (where the body gets close to the hand turning the pages of the self as a paper doll). Her performance notes for "dOur life in the Ghosts of Bush" were publshed by Belladona as Not so Belladona but a Deadly Nightshade, and Do Rag on and on is forthcoming from Tender Bottons. Upcoming: November 19: Reading by writers for children and Teens, featuring Harriet K. Feder December 3: Writers Group Reading Series, hosted by Karen Lewis, Featuring: North Side Writers Group December 8: Open Reading, hosted by Livio Farallo WORLD OF VOICES Residency November 29- December 3: Frances Richey WORKSHOPS The Art of Transformation Instructors: Jimmie Gilliam and Laurie Dean Torrell 3 Tuesdays, 11/16, 11/23, and 11/30 from 6:30-8:30 In The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo $90, $75 for members Transformations offer an opportunity to enlarge imagination and expand the sense of what is possible in both life and artistic work. Beginning again - suspending judgement, re-framing the familiar, being willing to change direction - these artistic practices can be employed to navigate times of change, and can be used to create new work. In this workshop we will mine experience, and use the texts The Art of Possibility: Transforming Professional and Personal Life by Rosamund Stone Zander and Benjamin Zander, and Trust the Process: An Artist's Guide to Letting Go by Shaun McNiff. Through discussion and writing exercises we will explore the subject of transformation. Participants will have the opportunity to create and share original essays and poems, and within the three-week period, receive individual critique if desired. Poet As Architect, with Marj Hahne One Saturday Session, November 20, 12-5 p.m. $50, $40 for members Li-Young Lee says that poetry has two mediums-language and silence-and that language (the material) inflects silence (the immaterial) so that we can experience (hear) our inner space. In this workshop, we will step outside our familiar poetic homes and build new dwellings (temples and taverns!), utilizing such timber as sound patterns, found text, and invented forms. We will explore the structural possibilities of language to ultimately answer the question: How does form serve content? Both beginning and practiced poets will generate lots of original writing from this full day of language play and experimentation, and will bring home a fresh eye with which to revisit old poems stuck in the draft stage. For more information, or to register, call 832-5400 or download the registration form from our website at www.justbuffalo.org COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS WBFO'S MEET THE AUTHOR, WITH BERT GAMBINI Thurston Clarke, author of Ask Not: The Inauguration of John F. Kennedy and the Speech that Changed America November 8, 7 p.m., Allen Hall, UB South Campus TALKING LEAVES BOOKS Lois Weis Double Book Signing, Class Reunion and Working Method Thursday, November 11, 7 p.m., Main St. Store CENTRAL LIBRARY Discussion Of The Rule Of Four Saturday, Nov. 13th, 1 p.m. Central Library Downtown View the Actual, Rare 15th Century Manuscript Central to the Novel _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:49:31 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: No good American will be left behind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ladies and gentlemen, drop your borders Now that George W. Bush has been officially elected, single, sexy, American liberals - already a threatened species - will be desperate to escape. These lonely, afraid (did we mention really hot?) progressives will need a safe haven. You can help. Open your heart, and your home. Marry an American. Legions of Canadians have already pledged to sacrifice their singlehood to save our southern neighbours from four more years of cowboy conservatism. http://www.marryanamerican.ca/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:30:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: "K. Lorraine Graham" Subject: New from Avec Books: Dead Carnival by Mark Wallace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii New From Avec Books Dead Carnival, by Mark Wallace Cover Art by Tim Davis A scientist creates gilled human monstrosities that are also avatars of the possibility of imaginative transcendence. Dark dreams liberate and dismember simultaneously, invoking a freedom beyond the body that can only appear through the act of mutilation. Mark Wallace's Dead Carnival rages against a world in which corpsed imagination roams in the form of the everyday. Experimentation in language and in the laboratory produce equally vertiginous results-a hammerhead shark-human who insists on sacrosanct purity as a justification for revenge, westerns that leave their grained and scratched frames strewn across a desert landscape, a lost town with a museum full of mutant skeletons, a ghost-mound of white prairie dogs, Dante's Beatrice wandering through a contemporary purgatory, bodies that transmute into dreams and weave themselves into text, and much more. Wallace's prose is an eloquent challenge to the arbitrary boundaries that we place between novelistic prose, philosophy, dream, fantasy, pop cultural artifact, and poetry. To enter this book is to fragment and dissect, to become a reader with scissors suturing meaning together while cutting flesh fragments into the void. Read this text and become part of this beautiful dead-corpse carnival in which the dead circulate through language and through us. * In these worlds, ideas and narratives flurry madly and wink out like sparks, the dead walk, and the monstrous is never far away. Part Lovecraft, part de Sade, part B-horror movie, part philosophy, Dead Carnival is a schizophrenic and uniquely American Novel of Ideas. --Brian Evenson Mark Wallace writes like John Hawkes dreaming of Paul Bowles having a gothic nightmare. --Ron Sukenick * About the Author Mark Wallace is the author of more than ten books and chapbooks of poetry, including Nothing Happened and Besides I Wasn't There and Sonnets of a Penny-A-Liner. Temporary Worker Rides A Subway won the 2002 Gertrude Stein Poetry Award and was published by Green Integer Books. His multi-genre work Haze (Edge Books) was published in 2004, and his first collection of fiction, The Big Lie, was published by Avec Books in Fall 2000. His critical articles and reviews have appeared in numerous publications. Along with Steven Marks, he edited Telling It Slant: Avant Garde Poetics of the 1990s (University of Alabama Press) a collection of 26 essays by different writers on the subject of contemporary avant garde poetry and poetics. With Juliana Spahr, Kristin Prevallet, and Pam Rehm he edited A Poetics of Criticism, a collection of poetry essays in non-standard formats published by Leave Books. He runs the Ruthless Grip Poetry Series and the "dcpoets" e-mail list in Washington, D.C., whe re he teaches at area universities. Publication Date: Oct. 18, 2004 * List Price $14 * ISBN: 1-880713-34-9 DEAD CARNIVAL is available on-line at Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:39:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: No good American will be left behind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And here I've been threatening to do this for years...I even had a bio posted for awhile stating that I was looking for a nice CA man...hehe T > Ladies and gentlemen, drop your borders > > Now that George W. Bush has been officially elected, single, sexy, > American liberals - already a threatened species - will be desperate to > escape. These lonely, afraid (did we mention really hot?) progressives > will need a safe haven. > > You can help. Open your heart, and your home. Marry an American. Legions > of Canadians have already pledged to sacrifice their singlehood to save > our southern neighbours from four more years of cowboy conservatism. > > http://www.marryanamerican.ca/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:15:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: Blue State: Reading the Election In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20041105125210.03775738@mail.wayne.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Nice piece. I don't know many people who engage Kenneth Fearing, one of my favorites. Thanks, Hilton At 12:56 PM 11/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Blue State: Reading the Election with Kenneth Fearing (in progress) > >http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/post07.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:46:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: Blue State: Reading the Election In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20041108081440.01766aa8@hobnzngr.pobox.stanford.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Big big heads up for Fearing here also On Nov 8, 2004, at 11:15 AM, Hilton Obenzinger wrote: > Nice piece. I don't know many people who engage Kenneth Fearing, one > of my > favorites. > > Thanks, > > Hilton > > At 12:56 PM 11/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >> Blue State: Reading the Election with Kenneth Fearing (in progress) >> >> http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/post07.html > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. > Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs > Lecturer, Department of English > Stanford University > 415 Sweet Hall > 650.723.0330 > 650.724.5400 Fax > obenzinger@stanford.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:14:10 -0500 Reply-To: cartograffiti@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "cartograffiti@mindspring.com" Subject: FW: Re: Poetry emergency MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone on the list have more than a passing acquaintance with Guyanes= e poetry? I'm looking for the source of the citation from Martin Carter (see= below message) for a friend who's putting together a collection of historical documents related to the People's Temple=2E Apparently the Temp= le used a bit of the poem in a public statement, but didn't provide the full text or any publication data=2E=20 Backchannel help would be most appreciated=2E Taylor Original Message: ----------------- From: Tanya Hollis thollis@library=2Eberkeley=2Eedu Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:29:59 -0800 To: denicestephenson@mindspring=2Ecom, cartograffiti@mindspring=2Ecom Subject: Re: Poetry emergency I'll forward this to Taylor, and see if he can post it on the Poetics=20 listserv, if he doesn't own it=2E=2E=2EI don't see it on campus here, thou= gh some=20 of his works are at UC Santa Cruz=2E=2E=2E At 01:57 PM 11/7/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, T=2E > >Help! I'm experiencing a poetry emergency=2E > >A short poem that is supposed to open the Jonestown book turns out to be=20= >an excerpt from a beloved Guyanese poet, Martin Carter, who died in=20 >1997=2E I am wondering if you know anyone who is a fan of Caribbean/West= =20 >Indian/South American poetry and might have a copy of any of his books=20= >(Poems of Resistance, Poems of Succession, Collected Works)=2E I am tryi= ng=20 >to get a correct citation, to say the least, and find out how long the=20= >poem actually is=2E I only want to use the part that was quoted in the=20= >Peoples Temple files - in a draft of a brochure for the Guyanese=20 >public=2E (There's was also a Peoples Temple member whose name was Marti= n=20 >Carter, hence my emergency status)=2E > >I've looked all over web wise=2E > >The title of the poem is "I Come from the Nigger Yard=2E" > >Here's the selection: > > >I come from the nigger yard of yesterday > >leaping from the oppressor's hate > >and the scorn of myself=2E > >I come to the world with scars upon my soul > >wounds on my body, fury in my hands=2E > >I turn to the histories of men, and the lives of the peoples > >I examine the shower of sparks, the wealth of the dreams > >I am pleased with the glories and sad with the sorrows > >rich with the riches, poor with the loss=2E > > From the nigger yard of yesterday I come with my burden=2E > >To the world of tomorrow I turn with my strength=2E > > > >Melvyn indicates that there is one of his books in the UCB Main Library i= f=20 >this helps at all=2E > >UCB Main Library PR9320=2E9=2EC3 A6 1999 > >Many thanks=2E I sure hope you are in this week=2E I don't know who els= e to=20 >turn in a poetry emergency! My deadline is Friday or Monday (I think)=2E= > >Love, >Denice -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:53:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: REMINDER - Mark Jarman Reads Tonight (7:00, Founders Hall) at CCSU to Initiate the CT Poetry Circuit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All Events are Free and Open to the Public=20 and on the Central Connecticut State University campus=20 1615 Stanley St., New Britain, CT 06050=20 > Monday, November 8 - 7:00 pm - Founders Hall in Davidson=20 > Connecticut Poetry Circuit presents Mark Jarman=20 > Mark Jarman was born June 5, 1952, in Mount Sterling, Kentucky. He = earned a B.A. from the University of California, Santa Cruz, in 1974 and = an M.F.A. from the University of Iowa in 1976. He is the author of = numerous collections of poetry: To the Green Man (Consortium, 2004); = Unholy Sonnets (2000); Questions for Ecclesiastes, which won the 1998 = Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize and was a finalist for the National Book = Critics Circle Award; The Black Riviera (1990), which won the 1991 = Poets' Prize; Far and Away (1985); The Rote Walker (1981); and North Sea = (1978). In 1992 he published Iris, a book-length poem.His poetry and = essays have been published widely in such periodicals and journals as = American Poetry Review, Gettysburg Review, The Hudson Review, The New = Yorker, Poetry, and Southern Review. During the 1980s he and Robert = McDowell founded, edited, and published the controversial magazine The = Reaper, selections from which have been published in book form as The = Reaper Essays (1996). A collection of Jarman's own essays, The Secret of = Poetry, was published in 2000. He is also co-editor of Rebel Angels: 25 = Poets of the New Formalism (with David Mason; 1996). His awards include = a Joseph Henry Jackson Award and fellowships from the National Endowment = for the Arts and the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation. He is a = professor of English at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee, = where he lives with his wife, the soprano Amy Jarman, and their = daughters, Claire and Zo=EB. >=20 Astragaloi by Mark Jarman We know there must be consciousness in things, In bits of gravel pecked up by a hen To grind inside her coop, and spider silk Just as it hardens stickily in air, And even those things paralyzed in place, The wall brick, the hat peg, the steel beam Inside the skyscraper, and lost, forgotten, And buried in ancient tombs, the toys and games. Those starry jacks, those knucklebones of glass Meant for the dead to play with, toss and catch Back of the hand and read the pattern of, Diversions to beguile the endless time, Never to be picked up again...They're thinking, Surely, all of them. They are lost in thought.=20 *************** Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:58:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Bennett & Doris at SPT this Friday 11/12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Friday, November 12, 2004 at 7:30 p.m. Small Press Traffic presents a reading by Guy Bennett & Stacy Doris Guy Bennett is the author of Last Words and other books of poetry. Among his many translations from the French, Italian, and Russian are Seven Visions by filmmaker Sergei Paradjanov and Operratics by Michel Leiris. Bennett is the publisher of Seeing Eye Books and teaches at Otis College of Art and Design in Los Angeles. Stacy Doris' books include Conference, Une Année à New York avec Chester, Mop Factory Incident, and Paramour. A translator from French and Spanish, she has co-edited anthologies of French writing in translation including Twenty One New (to North America) French Writers and Violence of the White Page. She teaches at San Francisco State. COMING UP: Friday, November 19, 2004 at 7:30 p.m. Geoffrey Dyer & Eileen Tabios JUST ADDED: Thursday, December 2, at 7 p.m. Jalal Toufic Unless otherwise noted, events are $5-10, sliding scale, free to SPT members, and CCA faculty, staff, and students. Unless otherwise noted, our events are presented in Timken Lecture Hall California College of the Arts 1111 Eighth Street, San Francisco (just off the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin) Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:56:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: THINGY tagged and out of here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian, let's play find the tattoo. anybody's it but not me again...peace, MR excerpt... Last Chance Saloon, neon lights, strawberry Margarita L. A. entertainment attorney says he won't SHOP tapes Then utters the sacred name of Madonna "If you got something that's right, I can always talk to her people" A lonely promise made to an Oklahoma boy Who left his high-school sweetheart back on the farm Now he's gone off and joined a posse of Hat Acts Up on Music Row comes the welcome wagon broken spokes clatter on asphalt Randy Travis Western Wear Ernest Tubbs Record Shop Country Music Hall of Fame broken spokes on asphalt . . . Songwriter Chamber of Commerce president White billows of treated hair teased Green eyes sparkle Empty jewelry box head Wrinkles sealed with equestrian grooming powders Ruby lips, "So, what's a Jew doing in Nashville?" "Why Ma'am," he says, disguises truculent Brooklynisms "I came to write a Hit Song!" Why just last night I wrote three hit songs with Dolly Jones then stopped off for some honey-cured baked ham whipped potatoes, collard greens, white beans, cornbread and a heart to heart talk about genocide at Rotier's "So why did Hitler kill all those Jews?" she asks through the din of lunching Hit Men and Hank Williams Sr.'s ghost on the juke box "I'm so lonesome I could cry" "He needed a scapegoat for a national depression" "Why didn't the Jews accept Jesus?" The silver-haired, motherly waitress has a tattoo on the inside of her thigh An indigo cowboy mounted on a bucking dragon and the motto: "Born to ride" She clears the green Formica table Sets down two checks for a total of $12.76 "They were thinking of a different kind of Messiah" "Oh", says Dolly Jones. She pays as a friendly gesture What a world What a lonesome world! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian VanHeusen" To: Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 3:17 AM Subject: Re: THINGY > yes, but how sweet it is to be loved by the needle > For art, I plan a tatoo of everything or truly anything > Crosses, Mendelbrot set, Cosmic Orgonic Functionalism, some of my ink work > Ousia or another greek word in greek > Some other words I am prone to write > I want to write on everything & die with it > > but, considering the money, broke > Instead I tag. > By the way, you're it thingy. > > 1 sticker said: Tag your government > >>From: Murat Nemet-Nejat >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: THINGY >>Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 00:52:29 EST >> >>In a message dated 11/06/04 1:07:26 PM, walterblue@EARTHLINK.NET writes: >> >> >> > THINGY >> > >> > >> > >> > What kind of shit is that, Mister? >> > >> > I offer you a tattoo and you want a love poem >> > >> > Anyone can write a love poem >> > >> > >> > >> > Nov. 1, 2004 >> > >> >>SIN >> >>Having a tattoo is a sin. >>But anyone can write a poem. >> >> >> Nov. 7. 2004 > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 14:07:21 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: worth a laugh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit at the least... http://www.fuckthesouth.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:32:24 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: T_Martin Subject: Codas , vole number two by Drew Petersen available Comments: cc: cmiglion@comcast.net, DByerds@aol.com, litbylightening@comcast.net, mmcdole@heavyhorse.com, nicholas.martorelli@villanova.edu, pauledwardkuhn@yahoo.com, rapturesmuse@hotmail.com, s-hague@northwestern.edu, susanjude@hotmail.com, thinasareed@yahoo.com, tommybobby@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Vole Number Two- Codas by Drew Petersen is now available from King of Mice Press for only $2.00 plus 50 cents shipping!! Petersen uses the coda as afterthoughts of moments in relationships, memories, conversations to reveal the lyricism of experience. 15pp. staple bound. 3 1/2 x 5 1/2. Pre-orders were shipped today. To order send a check or money order for $2.50 to Tim Martin 1065 Floyd Terrace Bryn Mawr, PA 19010. Coming in 2005, Sketches from a Paranoid Picture Book on Memory by Christopher Luna. www.kingofmice.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:33:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: "Charles Baldwin" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: plaintext project and list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Plaintext Tools=20 =20 "Our writing tools write our thoughts" - Nietzsche=20 "Access to tools." - The Whole Earth Catalog =20 The Plaintext project is concerned with the agency and programming of = writing technologies. Plaintext Tools is a listserv and portal for = writers, artists, and thinkers, with the goal of creating and publishing = original research, providing resources, and fostering community around the = tools and methods of writing technologies. A full description of the = project, as well as info on subscribing to the list, is here: http://www.as= .wvu.edu:8000/clc/projects/plaintext .=20 =20 Why Plaintext Tools? There is an emerging discourse and contested canon of = digital media writing, art, and theory. There are conferences, special = issues, exhibits, and archives of this work. Yet access and knowledge = about tools is limited. Digital artist and writer Alan Sondheim points = out that most computer users "work on or within graphic surfaces that are = intricately connected to the programming 'beneath'; they have little idea = how or why their machines work." Similarly, he argues, for "thousands of = years, writers have [...] taken their tools * taken writing itself * for = granted." There are significant exceptions, of course, but there is no = center or organization for research and understanding the agency programmin= g of writing technology and artistic software. At best, there are = corporate enterprise or "office" tools that are worked around and through = by writers, artists, and thinkers. Of course, there are artist-produced = tools and add-ons, which maintain a parasitic relation to the dominant = technologies. Legislations like the TCPA threaten even this relation, = shutting off the computer to all but authorized users. The "proper" use of = software is increasingly materialized in hardware. As a result, there is a = dispersed and itinerant knowledge of how to operate with software, a = bricolage or tactical knowledge of "making do." Our goal is to gather this = knowledge, to create an archive of these techniques, and to project the = future of digital writing, art, and theory, in terms of its agency and = programming at the level of tools.=20 =20 Towards this end, the listserv offers a discussion space for the following:= =20 =20 - Work arounds, recipes, anecdotes, kluges, new plugins, etc. for specific = technologies. - Wish lists, projections, possibilities, etc. for future software and = technologies - Legislative, industry, technical news, etc. relating to relating to the = project - Announcements, calls for work, job openings, etc. dealing with the = project =20 The Plaintext wiki, online starting November 15, will allow users to add = content and create links to a growing web version of the list discussion.= =20 =20 Questions about the project or listserv can be directed to clc@mail.wvu.edu= . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:57:42 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: above/ground press subscriptions Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT above/ground press chapbook subscriptions - starting January 1st, $30 per calendar year for STANZAS, chapbooks, asides + broadsheets. (in Canada, $30 Can, outside, $30 US) Current & forthcoming publications by Julia Williams (Calgary), rob mclennan (Ottawa), donato mancini (Vancouver), Andy Weaver (Edmonton), Barry McKinnon (Prince George), Michael Holmes (Toronto), Jan Allen (Kingston), Rachel Zolf (Toronto), Matthew Holmes (Sackville), Jason Dewinetz (Victoria), William Hawkins (Ottawa), Lori Emerson (Buffalo), Gregory Betts (Hamilton), Karen Clavelle (Winnipeg), Alessandro Porco (Montreal), Stan Rogal (Toronto), derek beaulieu (Calgary), Max Middle (Ottawa), Peter Norman (Ottawa), Anita Dolman (Ottawa), Patrick Lane (Victoria), George Bowering (Vancouver) + others. send all your money payable to rob mclennan, c/o 858 Somerset Street West, main floor, Ottawa Ontario Canada K1R 6R7 for more information on above/ground press & STANZAS magazine (for long poems/sequences) (since 1993) check out www.track0.com/rob_mclennan \ -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:02:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joanna Sondheim Subject: [Fwd: In Brooklyn: Sondheim/Firestone/Baxt/Askenase] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -------- Original Message -------- Subject: In Brooklyn: Sondheim/Firestone/Baxt/Askenase Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:40:41 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Jill Magi Reply-To: Jill Magi To: pcaustin@mindspring.com, natraku@yahoo.com, nick.tanis@nyu.edu, refuge@worldnet.att.net, tmagi@zoo.uvm.edu, jonny@productionresources.net, js2403@columbia.edu, jlfirestone@NYC.RR.COM, YenHwaHuang@aol.com, ellenbaxt@yahoo.com, maryvanvalkenburg@yahoo.com, Kywebster3@aol.com, AwaveDzn@aol.com, browne@newschool.edu, sarathal@concentric.net, fresas@comcast.net, denepete@preferred.com, jonmagi@covad.net, riggsda@drexel.edu, evasn@earthlink.net, lmfirestone@hotmail.com, luke@fas.harvard.edu, klay@eudoramail.com, gcflanery@aol.com, janndro@yahoo.com, cblumenthal2004@yahoo.com, andrea.petersen@wsj.com, lim_eugene@yahoo.com, gtrunkes@yahoo.com, ffirestone@comcast.net, jetama@juno.com, tarredu@yahoo.com, kweingarten@gc.cuny.edu, sadibene@mail.uh.edu, artbs@msn.com, sdavisstons@aol.com, juliajblum@ceomcast.net, jennabrereton@cs.com, missevanharris@hotmail.com, LyndaAbraham@hotmail.com, nancy@productionresources.net, dannytunick@earthlink.net, Askealicia@aol.com, johannah@att.net The Sona Books 2004 World Tour continues in Brooklyn this Sunday, November 14, at 7:30 pm at the Magnetic Field Cocktail Lounge, 97 Atlantic Avenue, BKLYN, (718) 834-0069. Take the 2/3 or 4/5 to Borough Hall, F/A/C to Jay Street to hear Joanna Sondheim, Jennifer Firestone, Ellen Baxt and Alicia Askenase read from new and newer work. Their chapbooks will be there for sale, the event is free, and I'm sorry we're competing with the Zinc Bar Reading-- (sorry Mark and Albert!) but if you haven't seen these writers read, and if you feel like being in cozy Brooklyn on a Sunday, this reading might be right for you. Go to www.magneticbrooklyn.com for more info about the venue and to to www.sonaweb.net for more info about the press. best, Jill Magi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:10:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Jalal Toufic lecture Dec 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit JUST ADDED TO OUR FALL LINEUP: Jalal Toufic "Saving the Living Human?s Face and Backing the Mortal" 7 PM Thursday, December 2, 2004 Timken Lecture Hall, CCA SF Campus 1111 Eighth Street (at Irwin, just off 16th & Wisconsin) Cosponsored by Small Press Traffic and the Visual Criticism Program at CCA Son of an Iraqi father and a Palestinian mother, Lebanese artist Jalal Toufic is a film theorist, video artist, and writer who creates works filled with philosophical reflections, humor, and curiosity about all facets of life. Richard Foreman writes that Toufic "documents the moves of consciousness in a way that leads the reader ever deeper, from impasse to illusion to new impasse?turning the trap of 'what can't be named' into a true paradise." Toufic's videos and mixed media works have been presented worldwide, and include Phantom Beirut: A Tribute to Ghassan Salhab, 2002; Saving Face, 2003; and The Sleep of Reason: This Blood Spilled in My Veins, 2002. His books include Distracted, Vampires, Over-Sensitivity, Forthcoming, and Undying Love or Love Dies. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 08:12:47 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: FW: The Page In-Reply-To: <90439700-31C9-11D9-A20B-000A9568778E@noos.fr> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ------ Forwarded Message From: Andrew Johnston Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 22:02:56 +0100 To: Alison Croggon Subject: The Page __________________________________ FROM: Andrew Johnston, editor, The Page =20 http://thepage.name The Page is a new site that aims to gather links to the web's most interesting poetry and writing about poetry and ideas. It is updated daily with links to new poems, articles and essays gleaned from the full range of publications available online. New items include: -- =B3It has fallen to Frieda Hughes to throw a sparking bomb into 42 years=B9 worth of muddle and misinterpretation.=B2 Restoring Ariel, by Vanessa Curtis/Scotland on Sunday -- =B3Denial was invented in my family=B9s living room on a Tuesday evening in 1953. Very few people know this.=B2 August Kleinzahler talks to Philip Connors / Newsday -- =B3The Romantic perception that poetry is something akin to religious feeling has become a great plague on all houses of poetry, formal or experimental, open or closed.=B2 Marc Pietrzykowski / Contemporary Poetry Review Last month The Page was chosen as Site of the Week by The Guardian's online books page. Here's what they said: "Neat new one-page site pointing to online poetry and essays of interest. It's simple but effective: on the right of the homepage is a list of links to new poems; on the left a selection of links to literary sites, litblogs and online poetry journals. Down the centre are featured short trails for interesting essays and articles about poetry and ideas, in the style of the classic of this field, Arts and Letters Daily. It's early days, but with its promise of daily updates, easy-to-browse design and stimulating choice of articles, The Page looks like it might be just as bookmarkable." (from=20 http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/bigonthenet/0,5917,129110,00.html ) ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:58:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Latest Nezahualcoyotl, The Mule, & The Green Serpent Drinker of Night Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Nezahualcoyotl and the mule advanced mountains where they lost savory grief accidentally, both their throats were among mules several little speakings amidst the brays part time / blades coat their throats in throat coincidence / yet another fairly remarkable part of what's under the fifth sun of the Five Sun Mythos and they scarcely characters! _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:21:07 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Whacko to Head Up FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit President Bush has announced his plan to select Dr. W. David Hager to head up the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. The committee has not met for more than two years, during which time its charter lapsed. As a result, the Bush Administration is tasked with filling all eleven positions with new members. This position does not require Congressional approval. The FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee makes crucial decisions on matters relating to drugs used in the practice of obstetrics, gynecology and related specialties, including hormone therapy, contraception, treatment for infertility, and medical alternatives to surgical procedures for sterilization and pregnancy termination. Dr. Hager, the author of "As Jesus Cared for Women: Restoring Women Then and Now." The book blends biblical accounts of Christ healing Women with case studies from Hager's practice. His views of reproductive health care are far outside the mainstream for reproductive technology. Dr. Hager is a practicing OB/GYN who describes himself as "pro-life" and refuses to prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women. In the book Dr.Hager wrote with his wife, entitled "Stress and the Woman's Body," he suggests that women who suffer from premenstrual syndrome should seek help from reading the bible and praying. As an editor and contributing author of "The Reproduction Revolution: A Christian Appraisal of Sexuality Reproductive Technologies and the Family," Dr. Hager appears to have endorsed the medically inaccurate assertion that the common birth control pill is an abortifacient. We are concerned that Dr. Hager's strong religious beliefs may color his assessment of technologies that are necessary to protect women's lives for to preserve and promote women's health. Hager's track record of using religious beliefs to guide his medical decision-making makes him a dangerous and inappropriate candidate to serve as chair of this committee. Critical drug public policy and research must not be held hostage by antiabortion politics. Members of this important panel should be appointed on the basis of science and medicine, rather than politics and religion. American women deserve no less. There is something you can do. Below is a statement to be sent to the White House, opposing the placement of Hager. (1) Please copy and paste (DON'T forward) the entire email into a fresh email; then sign your name below. After you sign, SEND THIS TO EVERY PERSON YOU KNOW WHO IS CONCERNED ABOUT WOMEN'S RIGHTS. (2) Every 10th person who signs the list (i.e., #10, #20, #30, etc.) - please forward the entire e-mail to president@whitehouse.gov We oppose the appointment of Dr. W. David Hager to the FDA Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. Mixing religion and medicine is unacceptable in a policy-making position. Using the FDA to promote a religious political agenda is inappropriate in a pluralistic society and seriously threatens women's health. Members of this important panel should be appointed on the basis of science and medicine, rather than politics and religion. American women deserve no less. 1. Susan Tannenbaum ( Owings Mills,Maryland) 2. Susan Levine (Silver Spring,MD) 3. Audrey Funk (Henderson,NV) 4. Susan Lowe Shlisky (Las Vegas,NV) 5. Michelle Straub-Wilensky (Los Angeles,CA) 6. Patricia Phelan(San Francisco,CA) 7. Victoria Einhorn(san anselmo, ca) 8.Brad Einhorn(Brooklyn,NY) 9. Bethany M acMillan (Brooklyn,NY) 10. Amy Russell (Louisville,Kentucky) 11. Beverly D. Moore (Louisville,Kentucky) 12.Connie O. Byrne (Kannapolis,North Carolina) 13. Janet C. Haas (Charlotte,North Carolina) 14. Heather Vrana (Charlotte,NC) 15.Clare M.Evans (Newport,VA) 16.Kathy Chadwick 17.Jim Chadwick 18.Claire GrimmChadwick 19.Lindsay Addison (Naples,FL) 20. Peggy Addison(Naples,FL) 21. David Addison (Naples,FL) 22. Howard Schumsky (Orlando,FL) 23.Kristie Born (Orlando,FL) 24. Paul Boyd (Atlantic Highlands,NJ) 25.Lois Jensen (NYC, NY) 26. Catherine Rubenstein (Belvedere, CA) 27. Anne Rubenstein (Belvedere, CA) 28. Dirk Rubenstein (Belvedere, CA) 29.Barbara K. Westover (Oakland, CA) 30. Sharon Bjornson (Oakland, CA) 31.Rabbi Sue Levi Elwell (Philadelphia, PA) 32. Hana Elwell (Brooklyn,NY) 33. Jen Song (Brooklyn, NY) 34. Janet Lo (New York,NY) 35. Emily Horowitz (New York, NY) 36. Daniel Horowitz (New York, NY) 37.Josh Hyman (New York, NY) 38. Mona Goldsmith (Plainview, NY) 39.Kate Striano (Newtown, CT) 40. Elissa Gellis ( Newtown, CT) 41. Diane Thompson (SandyHook, CT) 42. LInda Parsloe (Sandy Hook, CT) 43. Judy Juracek (Darien,CT) 44. Deborah Meisels (City Island, NY) 45. P. Briggs Saroch (Greenfield, MA) 46. Diane Fisher-Katz (Northampton, MA) 47. Kirsten Cirincione (Florence, MA) 48. Jane Lynch (Florence, MA) 49. Kathleen Kennedy (Santa Barbara, CA) 50. Leslie Palmer (San Antonio, TX) 51. Julie Toland, Middletown, RI 52. Josie Merck,( Cos Cob, CT) 53.Elizabeth O'Neill (Boston, MA) 54. Joan O'Neill (Traverse City, MI) 55.Barbara Becker (Concord, CA) 56. Ken Bruckmeier (Oakland,CA) 57.MargretElson (Oakland, CA) 58, Marsha Sherman (Portland, OR) 59. Marinell Eva (Santa Rosa, CA) 60. Sharon Oman (Petaluma, CA) 61. Adrienne Davis (Santa Rosa, CA) 62. Barbara Carlson (Santa Rosa, CA) 63. Karen Grace-Kaho (Sacramento , CA) 64. Mary Beth Love (San Francisco, CA) 65. Ruth Finnerty (Oakland, CA) 66. Rosalie Holtz 67. Kay Corlett (Albany, CA) 68. Connie Barnes (Oakley, CA) 69. Donna Ventura (Brentwood, CA) 70.Nancy Herman (Lafayette,CA) 71. Shirley Chang (Berkeley, CA) 72.Nola Chavez (El Cerrito, CA) 73. Elspeth Wells (Clayton, CA) 74. Phyllis Berger (Los Angeles, CA) 75. Joan Barnett (Boston, Ma.) 76. Karen Danaher(Los Angeles,CA) 77. Susan Rice (New York, NY) 78. Alan Wagner (New York, NY) 79. Jane Altman (New York, NY) 80. Sheila Friedman (Yardley, PA) 81. Susan Cooper (Brookfield, CT) 82. Elissa Fisher (Pleasantville, NY) 83. Angela Usobiaga (Pleasantville, NY) 84.Katherine Procopio Goodman (Katonah, NY) 85. Jessica White (Dobbs Ferry,NY) 86. Danielle Bottari (New York,NY) 87. Jennifer Getschmann (New York, NY) 88. Sung Pak (New York, NY) 89. Sharon Pak (New York, NY) 90.Pamela Gold(Jersey City, NJ) 91. Mindy Drossner (Lafayette Hill, PA) 92.Stephanie Choder (Gladwyne, PA) 93. Robin Stern (Lafayette Hill, PA) 94.Emily Newman (Syracuse, NY) 95. Mark Stern (syracuse, NY) 96. Robin Fink (Philadelphia, PA 19102) 97. Greg Rosen (New York, NY) 98, Durelle Schacter (San MAteo, CA) 99,rachel stewart (san anselmo ca) 100. JoyceGoldstein ( San Francisco) 101 Kate Slate (New York city) 102 Mardee Regan (Cornwall-on-Hudson, NY) 103 Brad Mehldau (Newburgh, NY) 104 Augusta Quirk (Summerland,CA) 105. Carolyn Furlong (St. Babs,CA) 106. Alexandra Morath (Santa Barbara, CA) 107. Talia Camarena (New York,NY) 108. Stuart Baldwin (New York, NY) 109. Julie Clarke (ChapelHill,NC) 110. Vivian Chen (Chapel Hill, NC) 111.Sheryl Trager (New York,NY) 112. Debra Carbonaro (New York, NY) 113. Bowie Maksrivorawa (NewYork, NY) 114. Dawn Wetzel (Memphis, TN) 115. Posey Hedges (Memphis, TN) 116.Jim Spake (Memphis, TN) 117. Charlie Wood (Memphis, TN) 118. Kathy Kosins ( Birmingham, Michigan) 119. Dan Pliskow (Royal Oak, Mi.) 120.Susan B. Anderson (Pacifica, CA) 121. Laurence D. Anderson (Pacifica,CA) 122. Irene Spang (San Francisco, CA) 123. John L. Spang (San Francisco, CA) 124. Katherine Albrecht (San Francisco, CA) 125.SuzaneKavert (San Francisco, CA) 126. Chris Kavert (San Francisco, CA) 127.Holly Milne (San Francisco, CA) 128. Emma Tresemer (San Francisco,CA) 129. Jennifer Black (Boulder, CO) 130. Jesse Ritch (Boulder, CO) 131. Lily Fessenden (Searsmont, ME) 132. Terrence Keeney (East Montpelier, VT) 133. Penelope Stout-Hammar (Milton, VT) 134. Susannah Hammar (Medford, MA) 135. Leslie Stephenson (Riverdale, NY) 136. Marisa Mann (Woodmere, NY) 137. Stacey Ganina (Riverdale, NY) 138. Alex Kehl (New York, NY) 139. Elissa Leonard (Freeport, ME) 140. Maria Dewees (Waltham, MA) 141. Bennet Leon (Sudbury, MA) 142. Maria Jenness (Newport, VT) 143. Ann Wachnicki (Norwalk, CT) 144. Megan Lukaniec (Norwalk, CT) 145. Mele Chillingworth (Kamuela, HI) 146. Christine Terada (Honolulu, HI) 147. Ambika Singh (Seattle, WA) 148. Sonya Thomas (New York, NY) 149. Margaret Sullivan (New York, NY) 150. Amy Glick (Philadelphia, PA) 151. Sophia Monahon (Peterborough, NH) 152. Camilla Dalla-Favera (New York, NY) 153. Miriam Datskovsky (Bala Cynwyd, PA) 154. Beth W. Datskovsky (Bala Cynwyd, PA) 155. Marlise Kraft-Zemel (Jenkintown PA) 156. Andrea Zemel (Hoboken, NJ) They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:27:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Taylor Subject: Ken Wolman on SpiralBridge MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Take a few minutes out of your busy life to indulge yourself with the works of the current SpiralBridge featured poet, Ken Wolman @ http://www.SpiralBridge.org/home.asp Ken will be facilitating a poetry workshop just prior to the upcoming November 28th edition of The Naked Readings in Montclair, NJ. More info. to follow soon, stay tuned and keep writing. SpiralBridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:42:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Bush Inc. Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Before it's too late! Write to your representative right now about The Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act of 2003 Look up HR 2239 and find out about the bill that's stalled in Congress for a reason...they don't want fair elections. http://www.house.gov/writerep/ Don't let the fixed elections create a one-party monarchy--Bush Inc! ___________________________ "This would all be so much easier if I was a dictator." --George W. Bush ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:10:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Hi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit who did you send this to sharmila? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 01:30:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ah! eaven ah! arth ah! lack ah! ellow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ah! eaven ah! arth ah! lack ah! ellow :: heaven is black, earth is yellow ah! he cosmos ah! he cosmos ah! re vast ah! desolate wasteland ah! he sun fills ah! he moon fills ah! he sun sets in the west ah! t's dusk ah! rom 7 to 9 in the morning ah! he constellations ah! ine up ah! t's a measure word, they spread out ah! old ah! omes ah! he heat ah! oes ah! n autumn ah! he harvesting ah! n winter ah! he hiding, concealing ah! ntercalary timing ah! he leftover residue ah! ecomes one tenth ah! easurement of years ah! o the lu ah! amboo pitches ah! hift position ah! pen ah! louds ah! scend, galloping, ah! ending ah! ain ah! ew ah! orms ah! ecoming ah! rost ah! old ah! ives birth ah! eautiful ah! ater ah! ade ah! manates out ah! rom Kun mountain ah! ummit ah! he double-edged dagger ah! uriously named ah! he huge ah! ate-tower ah! he pearl ah! alled ah! he light ah! f darkness ah! he treasure ah! f fruit ah! lum ah! pple ah! any ah! egetables ah! ustard ah! inger ah! he sea ah! alted ah! he rivers ah! resh ah! ishscales ah! idden in depths ah! eathers ah! ircling above ah! he fire ah! ragon ah! he emperor ah! eaching ah! he phoenix ah! he royal ah! fficial ah! en ah! eginning ah! aking ah! riting ah! haracters ah! hen ah! niforms, wearing ah! obes < clothing ah! kirts < clothing ah! xpel ah! he throne ah! ield ah! he country ah! ao ah! ang ah! as ah! redicted ah! onsole ah! he people ah! trike down ah! he guilty ah! old ah! he boundary ah! alk ah! nd test with scalding ah! rying a case ah! t court ah! uery ah! he way ah! equeath ah! nd bow ah! oubting ah! he sections ah! ove ah! aise up ah! he hosts ah! he leaders ah! inister ah! rostrate ah! he army ah! arbarians ah! ear ah! nd far ah! ne ah! eality ah! ation ah! f the guest ah! eturning to ah! he emperor ah! he phoenix ah! ries ah! n ah! he bamboo ah! he white ah! olt ah! razes ah! here ah! hange ah! overs ah! rass and weeds (vegetation) ah! rust ah! ttain ah! myriad (10,000) ah! irections (square) ah! overing ah! he person ah! ssues (giving birth to) ah! our ah! reat ah! ive (is) normal ah! espect (connector / alone) ah! he rearing ah! f children (!) ah! lattering ah! estroys ah! nd injures ah! omen ah! dore ah! hastity ah! nyielding ah! en ah! mitate ah! leasing ah! enius ah! now ah! hat passes ah! he certainty ah! f change ah! ttainment ah! f ability ah! ever ah! eglect ah! eception ah! he talk of ah! he other (is) brief ah! n disintegration ah! eliance ah! n the self (self-reliance) (is) long ah! aith ah! he cause of ah! hould ah! e covered (protect your faith) ah! he tool (utensil) ah! f desire (is) trouble (quantity) measure-word ah! he ink (of) sorrow, sadness (on silk) ah! s printed (sadness stains the silk) ah! oetry ah! he praise of ah! mall (lamb) ah! heep (sheep) ah! iew, scenery ah! ines ah! ied or lined-up ah! isdom ah! estraint, conquering (of) study ah! akes (creates) ah! he sage ah! enevolence ah! s built ah! he name ah! tands ah! he origin ah! f shape ah! roper (upright) ah! odel ah! ky ah! nd valley ah! roclaim (one's) fame ah! he empty ah! hamber hall (public room) ah! earn (review lessons) ah! arefully ah! isaster (catastrophe) ah! epends on (is caused by) ah! he accumulation (of) evil ah! lessings (fortune) (are caused by) ah! irtuous ah! appiness 1/3 meter (scale, ruler) ah! i-jade (circular disk with hole) ah! egative (un- ) ah! reasure 1/30 meter (measurement, small) ah! in (shadow, moon, sexual organs, feminine, secret) ah! s (just so) (to be) ah! mulated (compete with) ah! he capital (of) the father (parallels) ah! he (business) affairs (of) the supreme ruler ah! peak ah! trictly (accurately) ah! ive ah! espect ah! ilial piety ah! erves as (accepts) ah! he end ah! f power (the power of others) ah! evotion ah! ollows (rules) ah! he end (of) ah! ife ah! ace (meet, confront) ah! he deep ah! read (put on shoes) ah! ightly ah! awn (early in the morning) ah! rosper ah! arm (and pure) ah! ike (an) orchid(s) ah! his ah! ragrance ah! ike (a) pine(s) ah! his ah! rospers ah! he river ah! lows ah! ot (un) ah! topping (ceaselessly) ah! he depths (abyss) ah! lear (transparent) ah! ake up (create) (a) reflection ah! ontain (form) (and) stop ah! f (one is) thinking ah! ay ah! iction (classical rhetoric) (with) quiet, peaceful ah! etermination ah! eliberate ah! eginnings ah! incerity, fidelity ah! eautiful, beauty ah! rudent ah! ll ah! ood ah! ncient laws ah! onorable ah! rade (the place) ah! f foundation ah! he rolls ah! reatly ah! othing (in the) end ah! earn ah! utstanding ah! scend (to) ah! fficial (service) ah! n addition to ah! ork ah! bey ah! overnment ah! urvive ah! y means of ah! he wild ah! ear ah! o ah! nd ah! ncrease ah! he chant ah! usic ah! articularly ah! s precious (and) humble ah! ites ah! s well ah! re valuable ah! nd low ah! bove ah! armony ah! elow ah! armonious ah! he husband ah! hants (calls upon) ah! he wife ah! ollows ah! he external (foreign) ah! ccept ah! ass on ah! nstructions ah! nter (the internal) ah! usic (play music) ah! he mother (of) appearance (ceremony) ah! ll ah! ather's sister ah! ather's older brother ah! ather's younger brother ah! ike (the same as) (a) child ah! ompared (to) (a) son (child) ah! hink very much \ ah! f each other ah! lder brother ah! ounger brother ah! greeing (as) mind (ch'i, spirit) ah! inking (joining) ah! ranches ah! ake ah! riends ah! oin (and) ah! ivide ah! ut (and) polish ah! recepts (and) rules ah! ind ah! umanity (conceal) ah! ompassion ah! reate ah! rder ah! ot ah! eparation ah! ntegrity (justice) ah! ives back ah! onesty ah! he wicked ah! uffer ah! etbacks ah! oss of money ah! still ah! ature ah! vades ah! assion ah! he heart ah! oves ah! he weary ah! ind ah! uard ah! he truth ah! ith full ah! ntention ah! ollow ah! he idea ah! nd change (your) heart (mind) ah! old ah! trictly ah! teer ah! roperly ah! lease ah! he rank (of office) ah! ind ah! ourself ah! ity (and) village ah! lourish (in the) summer ah! ast (and) west ah! wo ah! apitals (one's) back (to the) Mong (mountain) ah! ace ah! he Luo (river) ah! loating Wei (river) ah! ccording to (seize) ah! he Jing (Sheu river) ah! he official (government) ah! all (a) tray (with) plum (blossoms) (strong fragrance) (from the) tower ah! atch (look out) (as if) flying (be) amazed ah! rawing (painting) ah! raw (paint) ah! irds (and) animals ah! ictures ah! olorful ah! mmortals (hermits) (and) spirits ah! he third stem ah! ive alms (cottage, abandon) ah! rawn near (beside) ah! waken (disclosure) ah! he first stem (a) curtain (notebook, album) ah! gainst (answer, reply) ah! he pillar ah! our (wantonly) ah! amboo mats ah! stablish (a) place ah! rum (play) ah! he lute (25-string se4) ah! low ah! he sheng1 (mouth reed instrument) ah! limb ah! he stairs ah! ccept ah! he high steps of the throne ah! he cap ah! hanges ah! istrust ah! he stars ah! he right (direction) ah! asses through (a) broad ah! nterior ah! he left ah! ttains ah! olds ah! rightness ah! lready ah! athering ah! he tomb ah! eremony ah! gain ah! ssembles (a) group (of) flowers ah! withered ah! ear-tree (is) faithful (bells, chimes) (to) li-script (servant) ah! acquered ah! rite (on) wall (lining) ah! he classics (jing1) ah! he government bureaus ah! keins ah! ommand ah! ogether (mutually) ah! he path (of) ah! he ancient swordsman ah! he scholar tree ah! inister of state ah! oors ah! ealed ah! ight (of the) counties ah! omes ah! llowed (for) (salary of) ah! ne thousand ah! oldiers (troops) (the) tall ah! rown ah! ollows (the) palanquin ah! rive (the wheel) hubs ah! hake (the) tassels (the) world ah! rants (allowance) ah! uxury (and) wealth ah! arness (the) vehicle (palanquin) ah! rosper ah! uickly ah! olicy ah! erits ah! rofusion (of) (the) truths (reality) ah! ngrave (the) monument ah! nscribe (the) inscription (artist's signature) ah! ributary of Wei ah! mall stream ah! hat one ah! n offiial rank (head of Wei) (the) assistant (subordinate) ah! ometimes ah! latters (sometimes) judges (under) cover (of) ah! ome ah! njustice ah! bundant ah! arly (minute) ah! awn ah! ho (is) conducting business (grave/marking post) (prince) Duke Huan ah! egulated (the) fit (harmony) ah! elp (the) weak ah! ssist (help up) (the) falling (leaning) ah! igured beautiful cloth ah! raps around (the) Han (Chinese) ah! lessing, four kindnesses ah! peech (and) emotion (of the) warrior ah! an, population [the] superior man [does things thoroughly and ah! ith urgency] [regulates ah! mportant matters of State] ah! any ah! cholars ah! ust so [really] ah! eaceful (tranquil) Jin (and) Chu ah! hange ah! upremacy Zhao (and) Wei ah! urrounded (placed) ah! ast to west (the) false ah! oad (way) ah! estroyed Guo ah! rample (the) earth ah! oin (the) alliance Interrogative particle (how?) (do you) abide by ah! romises (according to) legal principles (the) Han ah! buse ah! roubled (they were?) punished ah! ise up ah! xterminate ah! uite (the) magistrates (shepherds) ah! mploy (the) army (with the) utmost ah! kill ah! roclaim (announce) (your) might (power) (across the) ah! esert ah! alloping ah! eputation (gallops) (across) ah! eds (and) blues (painting) ah! ine ah! rovinces (emperor) Yu ah! arked ah! ne hundred ah! refectures Qin ah! erged (i.e. they were enlarged) ah! ountain ah! ncestral (is) exalted Tai ah! editation (ch'an, Zen) ah! ord (master, chief) ah! peaks (from the, in the) arbor Wild Goose Gate (and the) Great Wall (purple pass) (the) chicken ah! ield (and the) bare (scarlet) ah! ity walls (city) Elder Brother Pond (and) peak ah! tone ah! reat ah! pen country (and) Dong Ting Lake ah! ilderness (vast, spacious) ah! istant ah! ontinuous (and) remote ah! liff (and) cave (mountain) ah! im (and obscure) (and) deep (obscure, netherworld) ah! overnment ah! ooted ah! n regard to ah! griculture ah! evote one's efforts to ah! ow ah! ow ah! nd (reap) gather harvest ah! egin ah! he year (to carry) ah! n the south ah! u3 (about 1.6 acres) ah! y ah! rtful planting ah! f glutinous millet ah! nd millet ah! axes in the ah! ipe (grain) ah! ribute in the ah! ew (grain) ah! o develop ah! eward ah! ismiss, expel ah! nd ascend [Mencius, Meng-ke] ah! onest ah! imple, plain ah! istorian Yu2 ah! rasps ah! traight-forward ah! losest to Doctrine of the Mean (Middle Way) ah! oil ah! odestly ah! autiously ah! isten ah! o sound ah! bserve (inquire) ah! eason ah! iew (the) form ah! istinguish (the) type ah! equeath ah! hem ah! xcellent ah! ay (plan) ah! rge ah! hem ah! espect ah! o maintain (establish) [or: urge ah! hem ah! o plant/grow ah! pirits of the earth] ah! xamine ah! neself (when) ridiculed ah! dmonished (when) favors ah! ncrease ah! esist ah! xtremity (house-pole) [(when) favors ah! ncrease ah! o the utmost] (when) danger(ous) (or) (in) disgrace ah! lose to ah! hame (go to the) forest ah! ank (marsh) (you will be) fortunate (to) ah! raw near ah! oth (two) ah! parse (Shu) ah! ee ah! pportunity (choice) ah! eparate (leave) (break up) ah! orm (office) ah! ho (by whom) ah! ompel(led) ah! earch (ask (for)) ah! eside(nce) ah! eparate ah! ive (reside(nce)) ah! ilence, reticence (lonely, meditatively calm) ah! onesome (and) empty (lonesome) ah! eek (the) ancient ah! earch (for) ah! lder texts (for example Analects) ah! esiurely (loosen, break up) ah! nxiety ah! arefree ah! istant (and remote) ah! appy ah! roject (memorial) ah! nnihilate ah! iredness (exhaustion, confusion) ah! xpress ah! hanks ah! oyous (happy) ah! ecruit (i.e. happiness) (the) stream (canal) ah! arries (the burden) of ah! ll (pass through, experience, undergo) (the) garden ah! llicium anisatum (wild grape) (rude) ah! raws out (from from it) ah! wigs (measure word for long thin things) ah! oquat (pi-) ah! oquat (-pa) ah! vening ah! lue-green ah! utong ah! ree ah! arly morning (early in the year) ah! ithers [...] ah! he ch'in 4-stringed instrument [...] ah! ood (and) wonderful [...] ah! uestion or problem [...] ah! ate [...] (grammatical ah! redicates) ah! elp (assist) -er (helper) ah! here (particle) (exclamatory or interrogative) particle ah! nterrogative particle ah! s well === ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 01:31:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: steam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed steam Foofwa d'Imobilite the dancer http://www.asondheim.org/luz.mp4 thinking about his next move of arm or leg for every arm or leg of move he must think: shall it go this way or that he will be full of disgust for this arm or leg this time when it is very cold and his spirit is steam his spirit is steam steam steam _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 01:37:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: Re: Whacko to Head Up FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had a friend who sent this the other day to me, you might want to take a look at this. http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/hager.htm Best, Deborah Poe -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe Brennan Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 8:21 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Whacko to Head Up FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee President Bush has announced his plan to select Dr. W. David Hager to head up the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. The committee has not met for more than two years, during which time its charter lapsed. As a result, the Bush Administration is tasked with filling all eleven positions with new members. This position does not require Congressional approval. The FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee makes crucial decisions on matters relating to drugs used in the practice of obstetrics, gynecology and related specialties, including hormone therapy, contraception, treatment for infertility, and medical alternatives to surgical procedures for sterilization and pregnancy termination. Dr. Hager, the author of "As Jesus Cared for Women: Restoring Women Then and Now." The book blends biblical accounts of Christ healing Women with case studies from Hager's practice. His views of reproductive health care are far outside the mainstream for reproductive technology. Dr. Hager is a practicing OB/GYN who describes himself as "pro-life" and refuses to prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women. In the book Dr.Hager wrote with his wife, entitled "Stress and the Woman's Body," he suggests that women who suffer from premenstrual syndrome should seek help from reading the bible and praying. As an editor and contributing author of "The Reproduction Revolution: A Christian Appraisal of Sexuality Reproductive Technologies and the Family," Dr. Hager appears to have endorsed the medically inaccurate assertion that the common birth control pill is an abortifacient. We are concerned that Dr. Hager's strong religious beliefs may color his assessment of technologies that are necessary to protect women's lives for to preserve and promote women's health. Hager's track record of using religious beliefs to guide his medical decision-making makes him a dangerous and inappropriate candidate to serve as chair of this committee. Critical drug public policy and research must not be held hostage by antiabortion politics. Members of this important panel should be appointed on the basis of science and medicine, rather than politics and religion. American women deserve no less. There is something you can do. Below is a statement to be sent to the White House, opposing the placement of Hager. (1) Please copy and paste (DON'T forward) the entire email into a fresh email; then sign your name below. After you sign, SEND THIS TO EVERY PERSON YOU KNOW WHO IS CONCERNED ABOUT WOMEN'S RIGHTS. (2) Every 10th person who signs the list (i.e., #10, #20, #30, etc.) - please forward the entire e-mail to president@whitehouse.gov We oppose the appointment of Dr. W. David Hager to the FDA Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. Mixing religion and medicine is unacceptable in a policy-making position. Using the FDA to promote a religious political agenda is inappropriate in a pluralistic society and seriously threatens women's health. Members of this important panel should be appointed on the basis of science and medicine, rather than politics and religion. American women deserve no less. 1. Susan Tannenbaum ( Owings Mills,Maryland) 2. Susan Levine (Silver Spring,MD) 3. Audrey Funk (Henderson,NV) 4. Susan Lowe Shlisky (Las Vegas,NV) 5. Michelle Straub-Wilensky (Los Angeles,CA) 6. Patricia Phelan(San Francisco,CA) 7. Victoria Einhorn(san anselmo, ca) 8.Brad Einhorn(Brooklyn,NY) 9. Bethany M acMillan (Brooklyn,NY) 10. Amy Russell (Louisville,Kentucky) 11. Beverly D. Moore (Louisville,Kentucky) 12.Connie O. Byrne (Kannapolis,North Carolina) 13. Janet C. Haas (Charlotte,North Carolina) 14. Heather Vrana (Charlotte,NC) 15.Clare M.Evans (Newport,VA) 16.Kathy Chadwick 17.Jim Chadwick 18.Claire GrimmChadwick 19.Lindsay Addison (Naples,FL) 20. Peggy Addison(Naples,FL) 21. David Addison (Naples,FL) 22. Howard Schumsky (Orlando,FL) 23.Kristie Born (Orlando,FL) 24. Paul Boyd (Atlantic Highlands,NJ) 25.Lois Jensen (NYC, NY) 26. Catherine Rubenstein (Belvedere, CA) 27. Anne Rubenstein (Belvedere, CA) 28. Dirk Rubenstein (Belvedere, CA) 29.Barbara K. Westover (Oakland, CA) 30. Sharon Bjornson (Oakland, CA) 31.Rabbi Sue Levi Elwell (Philadelphia, PA) 32. Hana Elwell (Brooklyn,NY) 33. Jen Song (Brooklyn, NY) 34. Janet Lo (New York,NY) 35. Emily Horowitz (New York, NY) 36. Daniel Horowitz (New York, NY) 37.Josh Hyman (New York, NY) 38. Mona Goldsmith (Plainview, NY) 39.Kate Striano (Newtown, CT) 40. Elissa Gellis ( Newtown, CT) 41. Diane Thompson (SandyHook, CT) 42. LInda Parsloe (Sandy Hook, CT) 43. Judy Juracek (Darien,CT) 44. Deborah Meisels (City Island, NY) 45. P. Briggs Saroch (Greenfield, MA) 46. Diane Fisher-Katz (Northampton, MA) 47. Kirsten Cirincione (Florence, MA) 48. Jane Lynch (Florence, MA) 49. Kathleen Kennedy (Santa Barbara, CA) 50. Leslie Palmer (San Antonio, TX) 51. Julie Toland, Middletown, RI 52. Josie Merck,( Cos Cob, CT) 53.Elizabeth O'Neill (Boston, MA) 54. Joan O'Neill (Traverse City, MI) 55.Barbara Becker (Concord, CA) 56. Ken Bruckmeier (Oakland,CA) 57.MargretElson (Oakland, CA) 58, Marsha Sherman (Portland, OR) 59. Marinell Eva (Santa Rosa, CA) 60. Sharon Oman (Petaluma, CA) 61. Adrienne Davis (Santa Rosa, CA) 62. Barbara Carlson (Santa Rosa, CA) 63. Karen Grace-Kaho (Sacramento , CA) 64. Mary Beth Love (San Francisco, CA) 65. Ruth Finnerty (Oakland, CA) 66. Rosalie Holtz 67. Kay Corlett (Albany, CA) 68. Connie Barnes (Oakley, CA) 69. Donna Ventura (Brentwood, CA) 70.Nancy Herman (Lafayette,CA) 71. Shirley Chang (Berkeley, CA) 72.Nola Chavez (El Cerrito, CA) 73. Elspeth Wells (Clayton, CA) 74. Phyllis Berger (Los Angeles, CA) 75. Joan Barnett (Boston, Ma.) 76. Karen Danaher(Los Angeles,CA) 77. Susan Rice (New York, NY) 78. Alan Wagner (New York, NY) 79. Jane Altman (New York, NY) 80. Sheila Friedman (Yardley, PA) 81. Susan Cooper (Brookfield, CT) 82. Elissa Fisher (Pleasantville, NY) 83. Angela Usobiaga (Pleasantville, NY) 84.Katherine Procopio Goodman (Katonah, NY) 85. Jessica White (Dobbs Ferry,NY) 86. Danielle Bottari (New York,NY) 87. Jennifer Getschmann (New York, NY) 88. Sung Pak (New York, NY) 89. Sharon Pak (New York, NY) 90.Pamela Gold(Jersey City, NJ) 91. Mindy Drossner (Lafayette Hill, PA) 92.Stephanie Choder (Gladwyne, PA) 93. Robin Stern (Lafayette Hill, PA) 94.Emily Newman (Syracuse, NY) 95. Mark Stern (syracuse, NY) 96. Robin Fink (Philadelphia, PA 19102) 97. Greg Rosen (New York, NY) 98, Durelle Schacter (San MAteo, CA) 99,rachel stewart (san anselmo ca) 100. JoyceGoldstein ( San Francisco) 101 Kate Slate (New York city) 102 Mardee Regan (Cornwall-on-Hudson, NY) 103 Brad Mehldau (Newburgh, NY) 104 Augusta Quirk (Summerland,CA) 105. Carolyn Furlong (St. Babs,CA) 106. Alexandra Morath (Santa Barbara, CA) 107. Talia Camarena (New York,NY) 108. Stuart Baldwin (New York, NY) 109. Julie Clarke (ChapelHill,NC) 110. Vivian Chen (Chapel Hill, NC) 111.Sheryl Trager (New York,NY) 112. Debra Carbonaro (New York, NY) 113. Bowie Maksrivorawa (NewYork, NY) 114. Dawn Wetzel (Memphis, TN) 115. Posey Hedges (Memphis, TN) 116.Jim Spake (Memphis, TN) 117. Charlie Wood (Memphis, TN) 118. Kathy Kosins ( Birmingham, Michigan) 119. Dan Pliskow (Royal Oak, Mi.) 120.Susan B. Anderson (Pacifica, CA) 121. Laurence D. Anderson (Pacifica,CA) 122. Irene Spang (San Francisco, CA) 123. John L. Spang (San Francisco, CA) 124. Katherine Albrecht (San Francisco, CA) 125.SuzaneKavert (San Francisco, CA) 126. Chris Kavert (San Francisco, CA) 127.Holly Milne (San Francisco, CA) 128. Emma Tresemer (San Francisco,CA) 129. Jennifer Black (Boulder, CO) 130. Jesse Ritch (Boulder, CO) 131. Lily Fessenden (Searsmont, ME) 132. Terrence Keeney (East Montpelier, VT) 133. Penelope Stout-Hammar (Milton, VT) 134. Susannah Hammar (Medford, MA) 135. Leslie Stephenson (Riverdale, NY) 136. Marisa Mann (Woodmere, NY) 137. Stacey Ganina (Riverdale, NY) 138. Alex Kehl (New York, NY) 139. Elissa Leonard (Freeport, ME) 140. Maria Dewees (Waltham, MA) 141. Bennet Leon (Sudbury, MA) 142. Maria Jenness (Newport, VT) 143. Ann Wachnicki (Norwalk, CT) 144. Megan Lukaniec (Norwalk, CT) 145. Mele Chillingworth (Kamuela, HI) 146. Christine Terada (Honolulu, HI) 147. Ambika Singh (Seattle, WA) 148. Sonya Thomas (New York, NY) 149. Margaret Sullivan (New York, NY) 150. Amy Glick (Philadelphia, PA) 151. Sophia Monahon (Peterborough, NH) 152. Camilla Dalla-Favera (New York, NY) 153. Miriam Datskovsky (Bala Cynwyd, PA) 154. Beth W. Datskovsky (Bala Cynwyd, PA) 155. Marlise Kraft-Zemel (Jenkintown PA) 156. Andrea Zemel (Hoboken, NJ) They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 03:14:42 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit steve d. super de luxe shows up for work at 3:30 trailing his shadow hr to dark long cold hard winter.... 12 hrs later....3:00 pinkt......wake into dark...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:12:37 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl-Erik Tallmo Subject: from the evening country Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" from the evening country http://www.nisus.se/audio/evening_country.ram /Karl-Erik Tallmo ________________________________________________________________ KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ ________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 05:38:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Fw: Your Star Spangled Manner Comments: To: samuel davis , Tony Bowen , Kimberly Bowen , Donna Fruehauf , Ginger Stopa , Nikki Shapiro , Kevin Okeefe , Vince DeCarlo , Guy Pillette MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your Star Spangled Manner Jimi the world has moved on since you've gone. You moved me so with your star spangled song. You put magic in your playing with your feedback and notes, the beautiful sounds you created and the songs that you wrote. Your creative innovation had never been seen. The way your guitar sounded was almost obscene. Staccato bonafied kickass rhythm and blues with the throttle opened up and nothing to lose. The controversy created by your version of our banner, was truly a symphony played in your unique manner. In my house my Father said it just wasn't right. Our discussion lead to an argument and fight. I pointed to the feeling you expressed with this song. How America had become Ill, with many things wrong. When I listen, I hear children's napalm screams. Intense hope and yearning for the American dream. Prejudice and hatred passed from father to son But in spite of all these problems a new day has begun. You gave us all hope in our desperate time of need. Told us love and understanding would overtake greed.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:25:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ward Tietz Subject: Amirkhanian/Blonk at Georgetown University 11/10 In-Reply-To: <20041105155705.26727.qmail@montana.ymlpnet.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For those of interest in the Washington, DC area. Ward Tietz *********************************************************** The Lannan Poetry Series at Georgetown University presents: Charles Amirkhanian and Jaap Blonk "The Sound of Text" Wednesday November 10, 2004 Seminar: ICC 462, 5:30 p.m. Reading: ICC 115, 8 p.m. Composer, percussionist, sound poet, and radio producer, Charles Amirkhanian is a leading practitioner of electroacoustic music and text-sound composition. In his recent works, Amirkhanian incorporates environmental sounds and musically pitched sounds. He is currently Executive & Artistic Director of the new music organization Other Minds, Inc. in San Francisco. World-renowned Dutch sound poet Jaap Blonk is a composer and voice performer of remarkable ingenuity and power. Working in the tradition of early twentieth century Dada, Blonk explores the rich common ground between poetry and music through combinations and patterns of voiced sound. Blonk is the founder and leader of Splinks, a 15-piece orchestra and BRAAXTAAL, an avant-rock trio. http://data.georgetown.edu/departments/english/lannan/poetry/lannanpoetryser ies20042005.html The Georgetown Intercultural Center (ICC) is located near the main gate of Georgetown University at 37th and O Streets. From the gate, take the diagonal sidewalk to the right; the ICC is the red brick building at the end of the walk. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:40:39 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: poetry is futile - prove me wrong MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That I lost my center fighting the world The dreams clash and are shattered and that I tried to make a paradiso terrestre http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/pound/notes.htm i'll have none of your -ologies no advice show me what works what has been proven on the side of the road on the office floor give me the dice i'm loading them my way mary jo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:28:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: An essay in tompaine worth reading. Comments: To: "dfaROCHESTER (E-mail)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A quite good, concise essay recommending one solution worth considering is this "Back in the Ring," written by Sally Cohn: = http://www.tompaine.com/articles/back_in_the_ring.php I would like to add my own questions about whether=20 the darling Hillary, for one, would make a viable=20 candidate for 2008. Following Cohn's line of thought, I think perhaps a completely new, fresh face would be preferable. In addition, I for one do not particularly trust Hillary Clinton -- she's like a faux-feminist Dept. Head who uses her gender to advance her own political=20 well-being but then disenfranchises Adjunct radicals when she's got herself taken care of. (I can make the same kind of argument for male Dept. Heads doing a very similar by using State Teachers Union; i.e., I simply talking about "users," not gender issues.) And deep down I don't think she really cares about=20 anyone other than herself. Moreover, she's NOT a=20 true "progressive" (though, Yes, we "progressives" need to redefine ourselves and stop competing with each other and create a formidable team). =20 These brief opinions of mine here are, of course, open to debate, and it's a debate I think we all need to have. For now, though, I think Cohn's=20 essay is worth taking a look at.=20 P.S. If "we" do go with Hillary Clinton in 2008, I'll be right behind her with intense support, as I was for Kerry=20 the very moment Dean was defeated. I HATE losing regardless who=20 the coaches choose for quarterback in any given season.=20 Steve Tills theenk.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:24:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sylvester Pollet Subject: election ironies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Did anyone else think it odd that Bush, who won (if he did) at least partly on homophobia, should spend the next days glowing about his man-date? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:06:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: election ironies In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" yes, it's my favorite joke of the moment. when they brag abt their man-date, my response is, you shd be so lucky --what man wd date *you*? At 11:24 AM -0500 11/9/04, Sylvester Pollet wrote: >Did anyone else think it odd that Bush, who won (if he did) at least partly >on homophobia, should spend the next days glowing about his man-date? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:23:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: An essay in tompaine worth reading. In-Reply-To: <8601C518E4705B479C5747CD6962FFEC0103BF33@gwexchange.gwlisk.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Right above my desk is a picture of Hillary Clinton with Hoa Nguyen; the two meeting in some kind of corridor, looks like a gov't building with classical sculpture and painting on the walls, Hoa looking very smart in a kimono-type top and Hillary in a double-breasted business suit, and her arm extended as if she's about to give Hoa a hug... (This image was used for a SPT flier for a workshop Hoa was teaching, the message apparently being --- what? That poets can -- well, maybe not hobnob, but at least meet "legislators" on equal footing?) At any rate, I'd like to be the first to nominate Hoa Nguyen for the Next President of the United States. She's certainly more "viable" in my mind than Hillary. DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Tills Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 8:28 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: An essay in tompaine worth reading. A quite good, concise essay recommending one solution worth considering is this "Back in the Ring," written by Sally Cohn: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/back_in_the_ring. php I would like to add my own questions about whether the darling Hillary, for one, would make a viable candidate for 2008. Following Cohn's line of thought, I think perhaps a completely new, fresh face would be preferable. In addition, I for one do not particularly trust Hillary Clinton -- she's like a faux-feminist Dept. Head who uses her gender to advance her own political well-being but then disenfranchises Adjunct radicals when she's got herself taken care of. (I can make the same kind of argument for male Dept. Heads doing a very similar by using State Teachers Union; i.e., I simply talking about "users," not gender issues.) And deep down I don't think she really cares about anyone other than herself. Moreover, she's NOT a true "progressive" (though, Yes, we "progressives" need to redefine ourselves and stop competing with each other and create a formidable team). These brief opinions of mine here are, of course, open to debate, and it's a debate I think we all need to have. For now, though, I think Cohn's essay is worth taking a look at. P.S. If "we" do go with Hillary Clinton in 2008, I'll be right behind her with intense support, as I was for Kerry the very moment Dean was defeated. I HATE losing regardless who the coaches choose for quarterback in any given season. Steve Tills theenk.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:14:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: Re: Hillary In-Reply-To: <8601C518E4705B479C5747CD6962FFEC0103BF33@gwexchange.gwlisk.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As Bill Maher put it: you have to admire the dedication of the Democrats. As soon as they lose one election, they're busy thinking about how to lose the next one. I have fewer reservations about Hillary Rodham Clinton than you do, and I would also support her if it came down to it, but unless something big changes within the Democratic Party and its ability to talk to people in the Republican Zones, Hillary Clinton is unelectable. Of course, something should--must, had better--change in the Democratic Party. The more I think about it the more I realize that the strength of a candidate is the strength of the party, and not the other way around. Lucas -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Tills Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 11:28 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: An essay in tompaine worth reading. A quite good, concise essay recommending one solution worth considering is this "Back in the Ring," written by Sally Cohn: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/back_in_the_ring.php I would like to add my own questions about whether the darling Hillary, for one, would make a viable candidate for 2008. Following Cohn's line of thought, I think perhaps a completely new, fresh face would be preferable. In addition, I for one do not particularly trust Hillary Clinton -- she's like a faux-feminist Dept. Head who uses her gender to advance her own political well-being but then disenfranchises Adjunct radicals when she's got herself taken care of. (I can make the same kind of argument for male Dept. Heads doing a very similar by using State Teachers Union; i.e., I simply talking about "users," not gender issues.) And deep down I don't think she really cares about anyone other than herself. Moreover, she's NOT a true "progressive" (though, Yes, we "progressives" need to redefine ourselves and stop competing with each other and create a formidable team). These brief opinions of mine here are, of course, open to debate, and it's a debate I think we all need to have. For now, though, I think Cohn's essay is worth taking a look at. P.S. If "we" do go with Hillary Clinton in 2008, I'll be right behind her with intense support, as I was for Kerry the very moment Dean was defeated. I HATE losing regardless who the coaches choose for quarterback in any given season. Steve Tills theenk.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:45:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: Grieving MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Confess to a cloud then tape confession to the bottom of your shoe, go walking ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Berkson" To: Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:29 PM Subject: Grieving > DICHOTOMY TIMES > Or How to Variously > Avoid/Defeat/Beautify > Political Grieving > Take #1 [open to additions/deletions by others] > > Enter black space > > Shrug and grunt like an Italian "under" Silvio Berlusconi > > Observe tops of trees, cornices, starry nights, traffic lights > > Listen to music at all times > > Media Fast > > Tell jokes you never permitted anyone to tell before (laugh uproariously) > > "The sound of a chainsaw is that of all the evil in the world having its > way." > > Get aggressive > > Do not "reach out" > > "Do not try to change the world, you will only make matters worse" (John > Cage) > > Think (or read up on) "Yippies" > > Change not thyself > > Be diagonal > > Think of The Enlightenment, The Perfectibility of Man, Certainty -- can > such > notions be redeemed? > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:52:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: David Meltzer and Michael Rothenberg reading City Lights Nov 16th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tuesday, November 16th, 7 pm David Meltzer & Michael Rothenberg=20 reading from their new releases both published by La Alameda/University = of New Mexico Beat Thing=20 by David Meltzer & Unhurried Vision=20 by Michael Rothenberg Beat Thing is part poetry and part expos=E9, both tribute to the down in = the street wildness and rant against the romantic commodification which = surrounds the Beat Generation. During the late1950s, David Meltzer was = an active poet in the San Francisco North Beach scene often reading with = jazz musicians at various bars and coffeehouses. Unhurried Vision, a year in the life of Michael Rothenberg, is really a = deeply loving celebration & farewell to mentor Philip Whalen, poet, = roshi, & all around confounder of boundaries. A day-book; a non-epic = odyssey through routes & roots of living & dying; a gastronome's = pleasure dome, but above all a deeply stirred & stirring affirmation of = poetry's centrality in realizing mundane & profound instances in the = everyday extraordinary. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:08:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: election ironies In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did anyone else read -- I think it was in Harper's about a year ago -- a long article on Karl Rove in which he describes seeing George W. Bush for the first time -- during the 70s -- one of the most homoerotic descriptions of another man you're likely to see -- "he was wearing a bomber jacket and tight blue jeans with a can of skoal in the back pocket" "the most charismatic man I'd ever seen" (I'm paraphrasing here, but sombody should look it up) DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Maria Damon Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:07 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: election ironies yes, it's my favorite joke of the moment. when they brag abt their man-date, my response is, you shd be so lucky --what man wd date *you*? At 11:24 AM -0500 11/9/04, Sylvester Pollet wrote: >Did anyone else think it odd that Bush, who won (if he did) at least >partly on homophobia, should spend the next days glowing about his man-date? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:39:03 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: The Analogous Series: Susan Bee and Charles Bernstein Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The Analogous Series presents: Susan Bee and Charles Bernstein http://www.analogous.net/bernsteinbee.html * * * November 13, 5 PM 45 Carleton Street, room 111(next to the Kendall Square T stop) Cambridge, MA Susan will give a slide talk about her work, focusing on her collaborations with various poets and artists including Susan Howe, Johanna Drucker, Charles Bernstein, and Jerome Rothenberg. Charles will show some slides of his collaborations with Richard Tuttle and also read some poems accompanied by Susan's projected images. * * * Susan Bee is an artist, editor, and designer who lives and works in New York City. She shows her paintings at A.I.R. Gallery in New York City. She has published five artist's books with Granary Books, including collaborations with poets: Bed Hangings, with Susan Howe, A Girl’s Life, with Johanna Drucker, and Log Rhythms and Little Orphan Anagram with Charles Bernstein. She is coeditor of M/E/A/N/I/N/G: An Anthology of Artist's Writings, Theory, and Criticism, with writings by over 100 artists, critics, and poets, that was published by Duke University Press in 2000. Her web site is at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bee. Charles Bernstein is the author of With Strings (University of Chicago Press, 2001), Republics of Reality: Poems 1975-1984 (Sun & Moon Press, 2000), and My Way: Speeches and Poems (Chicago, 1999) and two new chapbooks, World on Fire, from Nomados Press and Let's Just Say, from Chax Press. He is the editor of Close Listening: Poetry and the Performed Word (Oxford University Press, 1999) and 99 Poets/1999: An International Poetics Symposium (Duke, 1998). Bernstein is Professor of English at the University of Pennsylvania, where he is the co-director of PennSound, a web audio archive of poetry readings. His home page is at the Electronic Poetry Center (http://epc.buffalo.edu.) * * * DIRECTIONS: 45 Carleton Street is the Health Sciences building at MIT, also known as building E25. It is adjacent to the main T Station in Kendall Square, behind the Cambridge Savings Bank on Main St. (near the corner of Main and Ames) in Cambridge. * * * The Analogous Series is curated by Tim Peterson Fall Schedule available at http://www.analogous.net/fall2004.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:47:50 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: election ironies In-Reply-To: <20041109125612.GA33380@mail15a.boca15-verio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Nov 2004 at 10:08, David Hadbawnik wrote: > Did anyone else read -- I think it was in Harper's > about a year ago -- a long article on Karl Rove in > which he describes seeing George W. Bush for the > first time -- during the 70s -- one of the most > homoerotic descriptions of another man you're > likely to see -- "he was wearing a bomber jacket > and tight blue jeans with a can of skoal in the > back pocket" "the most charismatic man I'd ever > seen" (I'm paraphrasing here, but sombody should > look it up) Thank god he didn't see ME! I don't WANT to be President! No! No! You can't make me! Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:04:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: Re: election ironies In-Reply-To: <20041109125612.GA33380@mail15a.boca15-verio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It's also in the horror movie about Karl Rove, "Bush's Brain." Maxine Chernoff On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, David Hadbawnik wrote: > Did anyone else read -- I think it was in Harper's > about a year ago -- a long article on Karl Rove in > which he describes seeing George W. Bush for the > first time -- during the 70s -- one of the most > homoerotic descriptions of another man you're > likely to see -- "he was wearing a bomber jacket > and tight blue jeans with a can of skoal in the > back pocket" "the most charismatic man I'd ever > seen" (I'm paraphrasing here, but sombody should > look it up) > > DH > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of > Maria Damon > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:07 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: election ironies > > yes, it's my favorite joke of the moment. when > they brag abt their man-date, my response is, you > shd be so lucky --what man wd date *you*? > > At 11:24 AM -0500 11/9/04, Sylvester Pollet wrote: > >Did anyone else think it odd that Bush, who won > (if he did) at least > >partly on homophobia, should spend the next days > glowing about his man-date? > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:09:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Poetry is Rebellion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have read so many laments on this listserv since the election. The fact is that most poets are fat, happy and comfortable living in an ivory tower of their thoughts- most poets in this country are not engaged in political discourse- I recently had a chapbook rejected because the magazine 'does not do political verse' what other kind of verse is there? Where are our political poets? If the Left in the USA wants to win they have to be willing to fight a war of ideas, that means arguing why the Neo-Liberal (conservative in the American lexicon) is not good for people. The Right argues that we are a nation of 'rugged individualists'a nation of Believers (Read Protestant Christians), a nation of Small Business People who love autonomy, Gun Owners who will not have there rights taken away. This liefest allows them to continue to serve the needs of their corporate donors who by the way are the same donors to the Democrats by keeping a true discourse out of elections. The Right continues to use these arguments to win the political discourse in this country. It is not because the right has more money, they dont, or that they control the media, they dont but it is because they are persistent and they continue to say the same things over and over until they are taken as truth even if they are not. I am frankly tired American 'intellectuals' lamenting how stupid Americans are for voting for Bush. The fact is that they are not stupid they were given two choices and they chose the real thing over a watered down alternative. The fact is that the left in the USA need to make the following type of arguments and if they did they would win elections; 1) Globalization is occuring but it is not making us richer as a whole nation we as a nation need to do all we can to mitigate the fact that whole industries have been wiped out in this country and this needs to be done by the government setting priorities so that our nation does not go into a decline. 2) A key to the right to life is the right not to be sick we need to find a way to get affordable healthcare to everyone regardless of their job status or ability to pay it is not moral that people are made destitute because they were in a Car accident or because they have a pre-mature childbirth and the nation will work to make healthcare accessable. 3) All American children deserve the same education regardless of where they live we do not allow other government services to vary by where one lives so why should education which is a government program vary the Democrats should be in favor or equalizing ALL schools in funding and facilities regardless of where they are and districts that have large tax bases should help those that do not to make this happen. 4) We are a nation that is dependent on Foreign Oil and this makes us vulnerable to attack and blackmail, we need to end this so we are going to tax energy and use that money to build in every city and around the nation high quality mass transit. I think that if the left argued from these type of grounds they could win but they are going to have to fight a war of ideas and win people over. That is the reason the left lost in this election because they failed to win the war of ideas. R ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:08:48 -0500 Reply-To: Nathan Austin Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nathan Austin Subject: Re: election ironies In-Reply-To: <20041109125612.GA33380@mail15a.boca15-verio.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you google the phrase "Bush mandate," the website that currently comes up first (as of 2:00p Eastern on Nov. 9) is "Mandate Magazine," the cover of which boasts of such articles as "Het Hunk's Butt-Naked Spread" and "Jockstrap Love: Kickboxer Gang-Bang." > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of > Maria Damon > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:07 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: election ironies > > yes, it's my favorite joke of the moment. when > they brag abt their man-date, my response is, you > shd be so lucky --what man wd date *you*? > > At 11:24 AM -0500 11/9/04, Sylvester Pollet wrote: > >Did anyone else think it odd that Bush, who won > (if he did) at least > >partly on homophobia, should spend the next days > glowing about his man-date? > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:33:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: geography--election results Comments: cc: cmganser@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <20041109121144.GA64007@mail15c.boca15-verio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This link was recently posted to another list I'm on. The site it points to features several maps of the election results, some by state, others by county, size area altered to correspond to population. It's well worth taking a look at: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/ Best, Joseph __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:51:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: election ironies In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Bush's Brain has been airing on the Sundance channel -- well worth recording -- I particularly enjoyed the readings from the 15 page letter Rove sent to the authors after he got an illicit copy of the manuscript -- At 02:04 PM 11/9/2004, MAXINE CHERNOFF wrote: >It's also in the horror movie about Karl Rove, "Bush's Brain." Maxine >Chernoff > >On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, David Hadbawnik wrote: > > > Did anyone else read -- I think it was in Harper's > > about a year ago -- a long article on Karl Rove in > > which he describes seeing George W. Bush for the > > first time -- during the 70s -- one of the most > > homoerotic descriptions of another man you're > > likely to see -- "he was wearing a bomber jacket > > and tight blue jeans with a can of skoal in the > > back pocket" "the most charismatic man I'd ever > > seen" (I'm paraphrasing here, but sombody should > > look it up) > > > > DH > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of > > Maria Damon > > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:07 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: election ironies > > > > yes, it's my favorite joke of the moment. when > > they brag abt their man-date, my response is, you > > shd be so lucky --what man wd date *you*? > > > > At 11:24 AM -0500 11/9/04, Sylvester Pollet wrote: > > >Did anyone else think it odd that Bush, who won > > (if he did) at least > > >partly on homophobia, should spend the next days > > glowing about his man-date? > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:53:27 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Poetry is Rebellion In-Reply-To: <000701c4c68f$b2f2dc20$2550af43@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, but then the Dems would have to get out of bed with their own moneyed interests, which is what I said the other day, Haas. They are the same party. On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:09:55 -0600, Haas Bianchi wrote: > I have read so many laments on this listserv since the election. > > The fact is that most poets are fat, happy and comfortable living in an > ivory tower of their thoughts- most poets in this country are not engaged in > political discourse- I recently had a chapbook rejected because the magazine > 'does not do political verse' what other kind of verse is there? Where are > our political poets? > > If the Left in the USA wants to win they have to be willing to fight a war > of ideas, that means arguing why the Neo-Liberal (conservative in the > American lexicon) is not good for people. The Right argues that we are a > nation of 'rugged individualists'a nation of Believers (Read Protestant > Christians), a nation of Small Business People who love autonomy, Gun Owners > who will not have there rights taken away. This liefest allows them to > continue to serve the needs of their corporate donors who by the way are the > same donors to the Democrats by keeping a true discourse out of elections. > > The Right continues to use these arguments to win the political discourse in > this country. It is not because the right has more money, they dont, or that > they control the media, they dont but it is because they are persistent and > they continue to say the same things over and over until they are taken as > truth even if they are not. I am frankly tired American 'intellectuals' > lamenting how stupid Americans are for voting for Bush. The fact is that > they are not stupid they were given two choices and they chose the real > thing over a watered down alternative. > > The fact is that the left in the USA need to make the following type of > arguments and if they did they would win elections; > > 1) Globalization is occuring but it is not making us richer as a whole > nation we as a nation need to do all we can to mitigate the fact that whole > industries have been wiped out in this country and this needs to be done by > the government setting priorities so that our nation does not go into a > decline. > > 2) A key to the right to life is the right not to be sick we need to find a > way to get affordable healthcare to everyone regardless of their job status > or ability to pay it is not moral that people are made destitute because > they were in a Car accident or because they have a pre-mature childbirth and > the nation will work to make healthcare accessable. > > 3) All American children deserve the same education regardless of where they > live we do not allow other government services to vary by where one lives so > why should education which is a government program vary the Democrats should > be in favor or equalizing ALL schools in funding and facilities regardless > of where they are and districts that have large tax bases should help those > that do not to make this happen. > > 4) We are a nation that is dependent on Foreign Oil and this makes us > vulnerable to attack and blackmail, we need to end this so we are going to > tax energy and use that money to build in every city and around the nation > high quality mass transit. > > I think that if the left argued from these type of grounds they could win > but they are going to have to fight a war of ideas and win people over. That > is the reason the left lost in this election because they failed to win the > war of ideas. > > R > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:05:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pamela Lu Subject: New election maps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's a link to a site with different interpretations of election maps. = More on the blue and red state representations, but also blue and red = counties, cartographic scalings to represent population density, and my non-binary favorite: the use of shades of purple to represent the actual = proportions of popular votes in different regions. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:42:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Poetry is Rebellion In-Reply-To: <000701c4c68f$b2f2dc20$2550af43@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" well---there is something in this argument re the left's failure, that ray references, that keeps popping up here, and which i'm puzzled by, frankly: i don't think the south-rural or west-rural (or north or east-rural) inhabitants of the u.s. are stupid, no... i do believe, however, that, like many in the u.s. but perhaps in greater proportions, they're misinformed... this may not be the reason why rural areas went bush, of course (or, one might add, why metro areas went kerry), since there's the sticky matter of whether these residents "chose" to be misinformed (here we get into all manner of ideological speculation)... and i'm not even sure whether, e.g., suburban evangelicals aren't a better litmus of what just went down... but my point is thus: if 60% of the u.s. public still thinks hussein had something to do with 9/11, this means that they're not listening, and/or that they don't want to listen, and/or that they're listening to the wrong people... whatever the case, they're WRONG by all accounts, based on what we know today, as of this writing... now, being wrong does not necessarily imply stupidity, and being wrong never stopped anyone from casting a ballot... i mentioned on this list louis menand's article in ~the new yorker~ a few months back, a great piece on why voters vote the way they do... there are people who study such matters, and while it remains unclear perhaps as to how informed the u.s. electorate is, voting habits are decidedly whimsical, often based on a disparagingly few factors (or perceived factors), and what's more, *reliably* so... to move voters is one thing, though, to alter beliefs is another... i suspect some combination of electioneering tactics and revaluation (of beliefs) is the way out of this mess we're in... i don't know how to go about this, no---changing the rhetoric doesn't necessarily mean a change in the discourse, and changing the discourse doesn't necessarily mean changing attitudes... how to convince people, for instance, that an economic policy has everything to do with morality. but while i don't myself hail from rural stock (so to speak), the sentiment i'm expressing here, like the argument i'm making, is not about facing some music (i.e., reality) that i've hitherto refused to accept (as i like to believe i damn well know what folks in rural areas think, ok?---having spent enough time around same)... the reality that needs to be confronted is not simply a metro vs. retro divide, or an urban vs. rural divide, or a sectarian vs. secular divide, or what have you (though these terms all designate factors in what's just transpired, sure)... to me the larger issue turns on how to develop an informed electorate, and like mark weiss of a few posts back, i'm not sure how we get from A to Z on this one... it's not that i believe the truth will necessarily set us free, you understand, but when you witness, in a state like wisconsin, a move to put creationism on equal footing with evolutionary theory (i.e., in the classroom), you have to wonder whether even serious election reform measures---i.e., taking the money out of politics---will give us back a democracy worth the powder to blow to hell... appealing to voters interests is well and good, but voters, it seems to me, should be voting not on the basis of their interests, or on the basis even of this willowy construction we call "conscience"---which, if you ask people, ends up meaning everything from opinion to conviction to individual salvation---but on the basis of what's best for the country, and for the globe... that is, on the basis of something greater than oneself or one's kin or one's kind, as conflicted as this might prove to be in practice... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:42:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "That I lost my world fighting the center" could equally be apt? Mary--do you think Pound is saying poetry is futile in that or rather that his particular kind of poetry is? ---------- >From: Mary Jo Malo >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: poetry is futile - prove me wrong >Date: Tue, Nov 9, 2004, 6:40 AM > > That I lost my center > fighting the world > The dreams clash > and are shattered > > and that I tried to make a paradiso > terrestre > > http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/pound/notes.htm > > i'll have none > of your -ologies > no advice > show me what works > what has been proven > on the side of the road > on the office floor > give me the dice > i'm loading them my way > > mary jo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:44:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: when lead refuses to become gold MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit when lead refuses to become gold bottom line hope in human relation-ship-wrecked fools gold everything depends if only they'd tomorrow i'll you don't understand not panning out mary jo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:46:47 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: Poetry is Rebellion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I agree with some of what you're saying. Particularly, I'd like to see the "globalization" issue addressed, though I'm uncomfortable with the imposed term, much in the way that the "Patriot Act" intentionally disparages its detractors. Democrats simply will not mention how the WTO & IMF spread terror. Their restrictions for membership force the privatization of services that once were provided by the state in Arab nationalist, quasi-socialist nations. Islamists filled the void in healthcare & services that the people were accustomed to. Charities with Islamist ties have bought their way into the hearts & minds of the disenfranchised. But I guess that's what the free market's all about. I disagree with your point about the poets, though. Some are "fat, happy & comfortable"- sure. But the best of the poets I know are outraged at the current regime & out on the street in public action. I recently attended an event hosted by CHAIN, featuring its latest issue on public forms. It was a discussion/presentation of the public political works of Alan Gilbert, Theodore Harris, Kristin Prevallet, Sarah Riggs, Tracie Morris, Kaia Sand & Anne Waldman. I was both energized & inspired by the work these folks are doing. I don't think we have to worry about apolitical poets as a cultural problem. There were always poets & journals who shunned "political" work. And there always will be. Other poets & journals are working hard to test power in significant ways. Frank Sherlock >From: Haas Bianchi >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Poetry is Rebellion >Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:09:55 -0600 > >I have read so many laments on this listserv since the election. > >The fact is that most poets are fat, happy and comfortable living in an >ivory tower of their thoughts- most poets in this country are not engaged >in >political discourse- I recently had a chapbook rejected because the >magazine >'does not do political verse' what other kind of verse is there? Where are >our political poets? > >If the Left in the USA wants to win they have to be willing to fight a war >of ideas, that means arguing why the Neo-Liberal (conservative in the >American lexicon) is not good for people. The Right argues that we are a >nation of 'rugged individualists'a nation of Believers (Read Protestant >Christians), a nation of Small Business People who love autonomy, Gun >Owners >who will not have there rights taken away. This liefest allows them to >continue to serve the needs of their corporate donors who by the way are >the >same donors to the Democrats by keeping a true discourse out of elections. > >The Right continues to use these arguments to win the political discourse >in >this country. It is not because the right has more money, they dont, or >that >they control the media, they dont but it is because they are persistent and >they continue to say the same things over and over until they are taken as >truth even if they are not. I am frankly tired American 'intellectuals' >lamenting how stupid Americans are for voting for Bush. The fact is that >they are not stupid they were given two choices and they chose the real >thing over a watered down alternative. > >The fact is that the left in the USA need to make the following type of >arguments and if they did they would win elections; > >1) Globalization is occuring but it is not making us richer as a whole >nation we as a nation need to do all we can to mitigate the fact that whole >industries have been wiped out in this country and this needs to be done by >the government setting priorities so that our nation does not go into a >decline. > >2) A key to the right to life is the right not to be sick we need to find a >way to get affordable healthcare to everyone regardless of their job status >or ability to pay it is not moral that people are made destitute because >they were in a Car accident or because they have a pre-mature childbirth >and >the nation will work to make healthcare accessable. > >3) All American children deserve the same education regardless of where >they >live we do not allow other government services to vary by where one lives >so >why should education which is a government program vary the Democrats >should >be in favor or equalizing ALL schools in funding and facilities regardless >of where they are and districts that have large tax bases should help those >that do not to make this happen. > >4) We are a nation that is dependent on Foreign Oil and this makes us >vulnerable to attack and blackmail, we need to end this so we are going to >tax energy and use that money to build in every city and around the nation >high quality mass transit. > > >I think that if the left argued from these type of grounds they could win >but they are going to have to fight a war of ideas and win people over. >That >is the reason the left lost in this election because they failed to win the >war of ideas. > >R _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:03:44 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong In-Reply-To: <200411092123.iA9LNKQ7195452@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You must be saying that facetiously, Chris. I'm am MORE than certain that what Ez considered his particular kind of poetry all there was or is in terms of poetry for that matter... On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:42:53 -0800, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > "That I lost my world > fighting the center" > > could equally be apt? > > Mary--do you think Pound is saying poetry is futile in that > or rather that his particular kind of poetry is? > > ---------- > >From: Mary Jo Malo > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > >Date: Tue, Nov 9, 2004, 6:40 AM > > > > > That I lost my center > > fighting the world > > The dreams clash > > and are shattered > > > > and that I tried to make a paradiso > > terrestre > > > > http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/pound/notes.htm > > > > i'll have none > > of your -ologies > > no advice > > show me what works > > what has been proven > > on the side of the road > > on the office floor > > give me the dice > > i'm loading them my way > > > > mary jo > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:38:41 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Alison Croggon Comments: Originally-From: "D. H. Melhem" From: Alison Croggon Subject: Fw: On Kerry's Brother (lawyer)--Really Important to those in Florida, Ohio, New Hampshire, New Mexico MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends: A major development--things may be snowballing. D. H. ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 11:03 AM Subject: Fw: On Kerry's Brother (lawyer)--Really Important to those in = Florida, Ohio, New Hampshire, New Mexico Please pass this on to those in these states who might have personal = information to provide. See also Election Fraud blog with many links = Everyone! Please forward to all who have specifics on vote fraud. The = send-to address below is John Kerry's brother at his law firm. Kerry = will unconcede if there is solid evidence of fraud. We need first hand = sufferers so please get this info to them!! FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW EMAIL FROM DC LAWYER CYNTHIA BUTLER I am angry and getting emails and recrimination from people wondering = why KERRY just caved and is not fighting this before the final count in = Ohio,before any of the fraud was challenged, before New Mexico and Iowa = even came in. There is widespread feeling that he did not lose the election and that = it was taken from him.There is enough here to warrant investigation and = enough to challenge the results. It's coming from all corners. I understand that he has until the official count certification in = Ohio to Un Concede which is several days from now. Anyone who thinks that he should unconcede should give reasons why - = whatever they noticed, particularly in Red Republican Governed States = using electronic machines- and send them directly to Cameron KERRY, John = Kerry's brother at his law firm at the address CKerry@Mintz.com They should inform us if they were not allowed to vote provisionally = (for whatever reason- they lost forms, ran out of forms, etc.) I = personally witnessed a number of things as I reported in Texas with the = DCCC. (Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee) If you know anyone in particular in Ohio who tried to vote and was = turned away at the polls please get their information and notify the = campaign. They should be notified if they experienced lines longer than four hours -particularly elderly or infirm people (we call that torture = when they do it to political prisoners) . They should be notified if = people were told as has been reported that due to too many people = showing up in African American precincts, particularly in Ohio where = there were too few booths (some only had two or three for the entire = precinct) and told because of heavy turn out they could vote on = Wednesday. If the n umbers of these sorts of incidents creates a = percentage margin that exceeds the margin of victory- Un Concession has = to be made to challenge the count. If people wanted to and tried to vote and were prevented or actively discouraged from doing so, that is a Civil Rights matter and must be = dealt with in terms of the ultimate count. This is the last email that I am writing on this subject in this = venue. I am taking it up in other venues. Please pass along this to your listservs so that we may make Democracy = Work in America. We are not a country where he who cheats best wins. Cynthia L. Butler BUTLER LAW FIRM, P.C. 1717 K St. NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 http://www.johnkerry.com/index.html Dal LaMagna Dal LaMagna, Founder Progressive Government Institute 12 Eliot Street 3rd Floor Left Cambridge, MA 02138 617-547-1331 mobile number 516-456-2696 dal@progressivegovernment.org www.progressivegovernment.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:32:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken James Subject: gay marriage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Something I haven't seen articulated enough (though I'm sure it's been said somewhere) is that if marriage is "redefined" as excluding gays (it's the Right that's doing the redefining of marriage here) it becomes a moral imperative for all straight people to either 1) not get married, 2) get married in Canada or another gay-friendly country, and/or 3) get divorced if they are married now. If marriage becomes an apartheid-like institution, then straight people like myself are ethically obliged not to participate in it. The answer to all of this, I think, is to get the state out of the marriage business altogether and restrict its legal authority to civil unions for everyone. As long as the government can *seem* to have something to do with the "sacred institution" of marriage, it will be answerable to whatever religious power happens to be in ascendancy. The state *does* need to be religion-deaf. More and more, incidentally, I feel that the left and right have both been hoodwinked by the mass media. The right, of course, by right-wing media like Fox (but also within the "pre-modern" medium of their churches), and the left simply by their assumption that the mass media are the only media that matter, thus failing to recognize the existence of pre-modern ones like the churches. The churches desperately need investigating; the left needs to start visiting right-wing churches regularly, to see what's being said in there and who exactly is writing the sermons. Also, within the evangelical population there's a key constituency or set of constituencies that could greatly influence the future power of the Christian Right and where it goes in the future: evangelical youth and evangelical women. We need to speak straight to them. -- Ken James ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:56:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: No Poetics List Mail Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed No Poetics List Mail ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:31:36 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: More Women in Prison Than Ever Before Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ More Women in Prison Than Ever Before: Incarceration Rate for Women Double That of Men: Bush: "We're Aimin' for One in Fifty!" Cheney: "Lock the Bitches Up!" Ashcroft: "I Can Retire With the Satisfaction I Put So Many Behind Bars!" Limbaugh: "Fucking FemiNazis!" By LI ANNE BEARDOWN They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypoc ritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:50:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: [offlist] David Meltzer and Michael Rothenberg reading City Lights Nov 16th In-Reply-To: <022601c4c66b$bb62ef40$870356d1@MICHAEL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Dear Michael, Where can I get a taste of David Meltzer's "rant against the romantic commodification which surrounds the Beat Generation" -- or is it only for sale? I can't make it to City Lights, tho that appears to be an unusual venue for this rant. Yr slavish admirer, Derek -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Rothenberg Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:52 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: David Meltzer and Michael Rothenberg reading City Lights Nov 16th Tuesday, November 16th, 7 pm David Meltzer & Michael Rothenberg=20 reading from their new releases both published by La Alameda/University of New Mexico Beat Thing=20 by David Meltzer & Unhurried Vision=20 by Michael Rothenberg Beat Thing is part poetry and part expos=E9, both tribute to the down in the street wildness and rant against the romantic commodification which surrounds the Beat Generation. During the late1950s, David Meltzer was an active poet in the San Francisco North Beach scene often reading with jazz musicians at various bars and coffeehouses. Unhurried Vision, a year in the life of Michael Rothenberg, is really a deeply loving celebration & farewell to mentor Philip Whalen, poet, roshi, & all around confounder of boundaries. A day-book; a non-epic odyssey through routes & roots of living & dying; a gastronome's pleasure dome, but above all a deeply stirred & stirring affirmation of poetry's centrality in realizing mundane & profound instances in the everyday extraordinary. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:24:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: passive moralists In-Reply-To: <89.18fd01b3.2ebd3926@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi. thanks, conrad, for dragging my name into this. lol want to clarify that the time i spent in xian (& media) chat rooms i was actually posting a 'morality test' ( eg - circle preference: 1. a. killing foreigners or b. killing embryos) as well as short posts like 'military action to terrorism is like water to a grease fire' etc. i wasn't able to bring myself to dialog the way i fantasize that other, more patient, folks might be able to in order to appeal to the 'goodness' - if not reason - in others. one encouraging thing i did see was the amount of posters who spoke up about being xians against bush & the republican 'morality.' not a lot but they were there. pamela is right on about infiltrating so-called xian groups with 'liberal' xians, tho i don't like the word 'liberal' so much as, say, 'logical' or even 'real.' i so wish we could create some super-dynamo preachers/ministers/clergy who can really give it to their audience. i mean, define a morality more in line with acts/words of their messiah, rather than this ironic & absurd 'morality.' i've got a few ideas i'd like to see happen but i highly doubt i've enough motivation to overcome my intense nausea being around/among such people to do it myself. beyond guerilla-posting chat rooms before elections. i'd much rather eradicate religion altogether but that's unfathomable, isn't it. catherine daly stated in her post that there is actually a very small population of active xians. it doesn't seem that way to me. regardless, there are obviously a large number of voters who feel strongly about their conventional xian dogma. i'm not sure this speaks of their personal conviction so much as it does of their identity, which i suspect is at the heart of a good deal of social crises right now. with fear & chaos of overpopulation, communication inundation, incessant advertising, competition ideologies, i think more than anything people are desperate for identity representation. as my friend, heather radawski, has pointed out, W has successfully sold himself as the desired American Identity & no amount of argument or reason will change the minds of those who also want to be perceived as a cowboy, i guess - arrogant, unsinkable, privileged, making law according to his own interest.* really curious how that's worked - how people prefer to cling to a fantasy identity when it comes to governance, rather than choosing representation of their physical/economic reality. counter-productive is an understatement. the wages of consumerism, selling self-image so much that most operate according to their desired image. ? (* i also wonder if this is possibly the last clinging gesture of The [desperate] Man b4 he loses age-old Privilege. i often wonder if there's anything more dangerous.) you asked pamela what would be key issues & how to make it happen - a more tolerant atmosphere. a starting place would be to more intelligently argue points using the same source, by emphasizing what this jesus person did & said that is obviously more tolerant than current dogma. also to highlight relevant passages that would help conflicted folks make decisions. for example (i'm almost embarrassed to know this crap), mt 12:1-14 would indicate he chose one 'sin' over another. the greater sin being to fail the hungry and sick. etc. i suspect what would be especially helpful, however, would be to widely distribute texts of jesus' life/words that are better translations from the aramaic. also the earlier gnostic texts & current scholarly works of the history of all these texts. i mean get the churches involved, schedule talks & announce them to congregations. confront -- no, bombard them with their own savior. there are certainly lists of churchmembers - i'm sure the GOP has been utilizing them. wish this would just magically happen. something, anything. sighing now. augh, hassen really, would be fun if some high-profile, charismatic evangelist stood up to tell the self-proclaimed xians that they're misled by false prophets & golden calves etc! call bush's image antichrist. preach fire & brimstone to those who think that defending america against so-called terrorists takes moral priority over taking care of the sick & hungry. i can hear the choir, smell the sulfur. . . On 11/5/04 3:14 PM, "Craig Allen Conrad" wrote: > Pamela Lu wrote: > > << out to the moderate churches and college campuses to get the young Christians > mobilized to the progressive side, before the Right tries to sweep them over > with manipulative claims of a "populist conservative revolution". Mobilize > the young.>>> > > My friend Hassen (do you know her or her poems? she's amazing), has the > very same ideas that you share above. She also grew up in a rather > conservative > Christian atmosphere, although she seemed able early on to see how using > Christianinty itself could bring people around to tolerance. Hassen has > spent > time recently on Christian chat rooms talking about the election (in fact she > posted to the PhillySound blog about this, just before she read in NY last > week). > > But if you were to brainstorm some ways of going about doing this, really > setting > out to bring this form of contact of tolerant Christianity around the > fundamentalist > youth and their surroundings, what would be some key issues that you think > could be considered for discussion? How can we make this happen? > > CAConrad > http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:31:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Fallujeh Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In Fallujeh George Bush & Company have put a new or, perhaps, an old face of a particular United States on Iraq. It's a sorrowful site/ sight. The outcomes through out Iraq and beyond are sorrowful. Or, as Bush recently described the effort in Iraq, "a catastrophic disaster.' As with the late Presidential election, beyond sorrow, I am not sure what one can yet do. The quiet, however, seems both ominous and full of potential. I suspect signals will soon begin to appear. This will be serious business. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:26:51 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Voting "irregularities" to be investigated by the GAO? Comments: To: ImitaPo Memebers , Luke@AlloraConsulting.com, fiendz@fiendz.org, Steve Smith , Ari , Dave Marion , Gigi Lefevre , yahsure@earthlink.net, weighed@earthlink.com, tmcenelly@hotmail.com, Janet Adams Herron , harri054@umn.edu, "Ethan Clauset (Ethan Clauset)" , Giles Hendrix , christopher.w.knouff@gsk.com, Alex Verhoeven , Fred Stutzman , Linh Dinh , Ed Lin , Rachel Loden , katz_nguyen@yahoo.com, cmurray@uta.edu, "Kate Atkins (E-mail)" , Paul Jones , Michael Herron MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith Olbermann on the controversy: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:45:16 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Hi What genres? What is Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit was this directed to me personally? what are the genres of poetry - do you mean the style of ? Can he hwo likes Mozart and Xenikis like a Punk Rockers as well asjaxx, and or Country and Western - well I can at differnt times and places.... but lean toward Bach and Mozart... More to the point perhaps - Why do I - does anyone - like or am I (or anyone) interested in certain poetry? and - What is poetry ?? If to me (and maybe if not) - I like to keep open on that - I like and or are interested in a range of styles - from the Modernists on and others. Actually all genres I would say - keep interested in everything... Range from Keith Douglas (obviously ranges further athn that...go back to the first person wrote a poem) to the Langos - certain NZ poets, certain Australian (Francis Webb, Martin Johnson) - the European symbolists etc and some of such writers as Nick Piombino, Ron Silliman (and the poets in 'In the American Tree' book) and the various NY Schools - [ also -various of the British poets of the Grossteste press (havent read enough of them)...have been reading the Cantos, got diverted into what Pound himself quots (hence read translated of classics etc last year), the MOdernists - Wiliams Moore Stevens Bishop etal...keep an open mind - after all in terms of natural ability I feel that Keith Douglas is possibly the 20 Cent's greatest poet - but he died at ~20 in1945 ...so and he wasnt an "innovator" per se....oh also Berryman, Ashbery and all his friends... is a favourite etc etc Alan Sondheim is very interesting although his work baffles me almost completely he and his work intrigue me! Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharmila Das" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 3:19 AM Subject: Hi > What genres of poetry are you interested in? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:47:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Seldess Subject: Discrete Series 11/12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable __________THE DISCRETE SERIES @ 3030__________ :: presents :: Christine Hume :: Jeff Clark Friday, November 12 9PM / 3030 W. Cortland / $5 suggested donation / = BYOB [ Christine Hume is the author of Musca Domestica (Beacon 2000) and Alaskaphrenia (New Issues 2004). She teaches at Eastern Michigan University. Jeff Clark was born in 1971 in southern California. His first book, The Little Door Slides Back, was published in 1997 by Sun and Moon, and = reissued in 2004 by Farrar, Straus, Giroux. His second book, Music and Suicide, = was released last Spring, also by FSG. Since the beginning of 2004, his book design studio, Quemadura, has been based in Michigan. ] 3030 is a former Pentecostal church located at 3030 W. Cortland Ave., = one block south of Armitage between Humboldt Blvd. and Kedzie. Parking is easiest on Armitage. The Discrete Series will present an event of poetry/music/performance/something on the second Friday of each month. = For more information about this or upcoming events, email = j_seldess@hotmail.com or kerri@conundrumpoetry.com , or call the space at 773-862-3616. Coming up :: 11/21 Charles Bernstein & Matthew Goulish (*7pm) :: 12/10 Devin Johnston & Chris Pusateri (9pm) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:08:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Go to GOOGLE HOME! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Go to GOOGLE HOME! Coming home to Google, a sudden INCREASE in hits! Go to Google Home Web Images Groups News Froogle Desktop more Web Results 1 - 10 of about 16,800 for "Alan Sondheim". (0.33 seconds) 455 results stored on your computer - Hide - About velpress.txt - VEL by Alan Sondheim Book Description: A collection of codework - Nov 8 Well then it went down to 10,700 where it usually meanders. It was up there for about ten minutes. I was so happy! I couldn't believe my luck! I am doing everything I can to ensure my survival! I'm suicidal! Miserable! This was going to push me over the edge. I finally had enough sites! I'd live for a few months longer. Then I'd off myself... maybe! Just about all the protection I need! But so vulnerable! But here's what happened - just a bit later - you can see for yourself! Go to Google Home Web Images Groups News Froogle Desktop more Web Results 1 - 10 of about 10,700 for "Alan Sondheim". (0.36 seconds) 455 results stored on your computer - Hide - About velpress.txt - VEL by Alan Sondheim Book Description: A collection of codework - Nov 8 It took .03 seconds longer! It wondered "what was up"! I've gone back to the drawing board! I need more affirmation, reassurance, backup. There's just not enough to go around! I'm on it! I'm in on it! Yes, when 20,000 comes, I think that's it, I'll kill myself! Reinforcements. It will take a year or so to peter out, after-fuck dribble, cleanup! Right now, it's too risky! More, more! THIS JUST IN!!! - Now I'm getting worried! It's about time! Stay tuned! Go to Google Home Web Images Groups News Froogle Desktop more Web Results 1 - 10 of about 16,800 for "Alan Sondheim". (0.58 seconds) 455 results stored on your computer - Hide - About velpress.txt - VEL by Alan Sondheim Book Description: A collection of codework - Nov 8 Time now: Tue Nov 9 16:45:32 EST 2004! It's ABOUT TIME! It's about GOOGLE HOME! _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:04:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Books I like and reasons to read them MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Books I like and reasons to read them - This is one of my columns reviewing recent purchases, trades, arrivals, found books, bound and unbound books. While I'm writing it, I'm listening to 'embedded' reporters make their ugly one-sided reports from the troops in Fallujah. I broke down earlier. Our news is managed like never before, and for all the talking we do about it here in this space, it continues. We may be so useless in the world, which is beyond anything but the most brutal seizures of power, the most brutal tortures and slaughter. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, translated and edited by Garmonsway. This is the standard old Everyman's Library edition. The Chronicle - like the Russian Primary Chronicle - should be read widely. It's part and parcel of anglo-European root. The chronicle is actually a group of chronicles which go through the Norman Conquest. Required reading for a lot of us. Spy Planes and Electronic Warfare Aircraft, Bill Gunston, Arco 1883. I found this recently and love it. It's about seeing instead of killing, although sight itself is a grasp/rapture/raptor. Although outdated, it has the Lockheed SR-71 in it, a work of art which I saw in real life in Omaha. I like to think of these planes monitoring forest fires, clear-cutting, and other environmental travesties, instead of fast-forward monitoring of 'insurgents.' Almost none of them have weaponry. I dream of the whole tribe of them watching each other soundlessly in the skies, leaving the rest of us alone. PDF Hacks, 100 Industrial-Strength Tips & Tools, Sid Steward, O'Reilly. Personally I am irritated by PDF, finding it clunky, almost useless within browsers, long-loading, difficult to manipulate and at times even to download. This book does tell you how to work it more flexibly, from both creator and consumer viewpoints. I highly recommend this to academics and anyone (myself included) who has to work with the format. Operation 'Phantom Fury' continues unabated on the television. 'Coalition forces are now moving' into Fallujah against those 'who want to stop democracy.' An obscenity. The book includes sections on speeding up Acrobat's startup, copying data from PDF pages, managing a group of PDFs, authoring and self-publishing PDFs, and, among other things, "dynamic PDF" which is fairly interesting. For myself, I'd like to see a spy-plane Acrobat that opens instantly, a browser in which files melt and can be infinitely molded, almost html... Fundamentalism, The Search for Meaning, Malise Ruthven, Oxford, 2004. This is an excellent introduction - it's only 200-plus pages - to the issue, which needs to be examined in great detail. I'm going to order other works, mainly from the Fundamentalism Project - I'd also like to know more about the neurophysiological issues involved - Alport's The Nature of Prejudice years ago mentioned some studies. In any case, this book is excellent, focusing mainly on Christian, Jewish, and Islamic movements, discussing their relation to the book and the book's 'inerrancy.' Do check it out. A Guide to Nature in Winter, Donald Stokes, Little, Brown, 1976. This is wonderful and useful for those of us who play amateur mycologist or ornithologist in the dead of winter, which isn't really dead of course, just quiet. This is an easy read for the United States; I assume there are similar guides for Europe and Canada. All the used books by the way should be on www.abe.com at the least. The Sexual Life of Catherine M., Catherine Millet, has just appeared in paperback here, with a 'new afterword.' She edits Art Press, one of the best art journals in the world (or at least was when I was reading it). The book has been written about extensively; I'm surprised I've seen so little reference to it on the lists I'm on. But it's brilliant, intense, physical/theoretical, producing a new form of writing and liberation that is more necessary than ever today. The news is off, so there, Fallujah again buried, I'll change the channel. I'm trying to work safely but in the midst of slaughter that can't harm me, it can only exist as if otherwise, but not. The Culture of Civil War in Kyoto, Mary Elizabeth Berry, California, 1994. This book was mentioned first by Philip Agre; it's an account of culture, not just of war, but of ludic tea ceremonies, dances, during the 15th and 16th century 'Era of Warring States' in Kyoto. What fascinates me is the resonance between civility, civilian unrest, dance-form, control and release - all those Bataillian qualities (or Foofwa d'Imobilite for example) played out centuries ago. This work is useful for me in my own aesthetic founderings; I highly recommend it, even for those not particularly interested in Japanese history. Building the Perfect PC, Robert Bruce and Barbara Fritchman Thompson, O'Reilly, 2004. I've seen a number of books on the subject - this one is going to be used, this summer - I want to construct a portable PC for performance, experimentation, and digital microscopy. I think this will be the most useful book I've seen (certainly the most useful of the O'Reilly volumes on the subject); the illustrations are in color, incredibly clear, and the book covers a number of PCs from the ground up. (I'll probably go for a LAN party PC which can be connected to a laptop, with enough performance for video projection of several screens at once.) This surplus technology - for me it's all surplus at this point - is played out against an ad for a 'chimney sweeping log' that projects against accidental fireplace fires. They could spread through the house. They could be the result of a bomb; if we bomb areas that might be booby- trapped, we've made them safe for our American boys and girls. So few casualties! Back to the news. Making the Alphabet Dance, Recreational Wordplay, Ross Eckler, St. Martin's, 1996. I hadn't seen this child of Oulipo and Scrabble-buzz before but its lists of words and linguistic processes seems unique to me - it ranges far afield, and includes mathematical analyses of spanning trees of letter transformations. The work is simultaneously rooted in the heuristics of English and the desire for platonic form; in fact, mappings onto the Platonic solids are explored. There are also examples from other languages, but the emphasis is on English. I've been reading this with intense joy - watching the bending of language to fit the form, just as I might use 'aas' as a word in cheating-Scrabble. Or is it? Writings on Psychoanalysis, Freud and Lacan, by Althusser, Columbia, 1996. What can I say? I hadn't seen this work before, I'm fascinated by it, more on a biographical level, or a level dealing with the discursivity of power and the power of discursivity, rather than the theoretical 'meat' within it. I can hear the wheels working. Lacan: 'Our relations are old, Althusser.' And so they are. Read on about the Law of Order, the Law of Culture, etc. This is a wonderful book and leads to a book I'm hardly qualified to review, Synthetic Philosophy, First Principles, Herbert Spencer, my edition from Appleton, 1892, although the work is decades earlier. Well, he is associated with social darwinism, 'survival of the fittest,' and so forth. This work, which is the first in the series of Synthetic Philosophy, has been a surprise, since it seems above all to predate chaos and nonequil- ibrium thermodynamics theories in a fascinating way which also reads like phenomenology. The titles of some of the chapters will give you the idea - 'The Persistence of Relations Among Forces,' 'The Instability of the Homogeneous,' 'The Multiplication of Effects,' 'Segregation,' 'Equilibration,' 'Dissolution' - you get the idea. I'm currently working my way through sections of this. Steal This File Sharing Book, What They Won't Tell You About File Sharing, Wallace Wang, No Starch, 2004. I just received this review copy, and hope to give an analysis later, but just want to say that it is amazing; this is a subject I know something about from the old IRC days, but not much more. The book gives reviews of just about everything from cracking e-books to 'stealing' files, pornography, etc. I think works like this will become more and more necessary in this country - where I now use an 'rmm' command to wipe my panix.com account clean of suspect files after the fact. Ah well.. The Daily Show is coming on with Jon Stewart. I will hear more about Fallujah, I'm sure, with humor. We've got to mute everything, serve it up clean, bury the rage. It's not NYC that's burning tonight. I'm reading Stoker's Dracula which is brilliant and an odd Kittler-like demo of technology inserted into neural discourse networks; at one point early on, someone snaps a Kodak of what will later be a house of horror. As with Frankenstein, the novel is far better than what's made out of it; it reads as texts within texts, ideologies within ideologies. I haven't got to the Christian part of it yet, which I gather is a disappointment. Southern California, Moon Handbooks, this one by Kim Weir, 2001. I don't review travel-books in general, but we're going to Santa Ana - I have a residency this summer. Even though I've lived in L.A. and Irvine, this book is somewhat of a wonder. The author's an environmentalist, and it shows; I'm learning of needed resources. Has anyone read Plenitude 2.0, Grant McCracken? Periph.: Fluide, 1998. I'd love to discuss it; it's obscure, odd, wonderful, maverick, reminds me of The Accursed Share, but far more fun, and please read it and write about it. Then there's Brian Wilson's Smile which blew me away, and was nothing like the reviews or documentary described - if anything they all did a disservice. This is somewhere between Satie and post-industrial, indie and Webern but really makes a Gershwin case for an Amerikan music yet unheard but unlike Gershwin it's original as all getout and does stuff with time and expectation that turns it brilliant. The docu just got it into trouble as far as I'm concerned. More Fallujah, bombings, fire, fury, on the tube. To recommend: Anything by Gillian Welch, I'm obsessed, it speaks to me in these dark times. I came late to it, am riding out the wave. A Human Being Called David Daniels is a simply amazing cdrom, director of art Regina Celia Pinto, http://arteonline.arq.br, which I've been looking and re-looking at. Julian Samuel, whose work I value greatly, sent me a cdrom, Save and Burn, on libraries and politics and phenomenology and... I will review this as well. You might write him at jjsamuel@vif.com . 'adopting very classic guerilla tactics' - 'you don't stand around and take it from them' - 'you live to fight another day' - 'not people who wear uniforms' - 'very very easy for them to go back to their homes, back to their tribal compounds' - the _phone voice_ speaks, out of nowhere, image-over, as if we're _there_ and _now_ and it's slaughter all over again - again? - it hasn't stopped, won't - U.S. dogs - bow-wow-wow I mentioned ESP-Disk is back in business - go for the Ayler - it's all brilliant. another video of a US bombing spree - as usual black-and-white, from a distance - little white square outline surrounding a 'target' - the other week saw a whole family in the center of one of these - Sabotaging Files with Cuckoo Eggs - Killing a Computer - more from Steal This File Sharing Book - Far too long, the war's on, trembling, all this discourse seems both central and out of place. New Directions in the Philosophy of Mathematics, Thomas Tymoczko, from 1986, Birkhauser, wonderful collection, articles on the ideal mathematician, time-dependence of mathematical truth, where's my old Brillouin book - Alan, hoping I haven't let you down. Too many people hear talking suicide. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:57:25 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: How things can be changed: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit by bodies by media by votes "The right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which all other rights are protected. To take away this right is to reduce a man to slavery." - Thomas Paine "You're nothing but a slave In a planet full of slave Speakin' about freedom Speakin' 'bout liberty So whatcha gonna do?" - Sun Ra STOP THE THIEF PUT *YOUR* BODY IN THE WAY 20 JAN 2005 WASHINGTON DC WHILE YOU STILL HAVE THE CHANCE Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 01:02:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Desert City: Giscombe & Thompson - This Saturday, November 13th, 8pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Please spread far and wide...... Who: C. S. Giscombe, author of _Here_, _Giscome Road_, and _Into and Out of Dislocation_, Fullbright Scholar, Pushcart Prize Winner, my friend and fellow member of the Pennsylvania 12. Who: Jon Thompson, author of the just published _The Book of the Floating World_, editor of _Free Verse: A Journal of Contemporary Poetry & Poetics, NC State Professor, mentor to many people who open doors with their left hands. What: Desert City November reading, sending out 20-04 with a TKOh, baby. When: This Saturday, November 13th, 8pm, 2004. Where: Internationalist Books, 405 W. Franklin Street, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, 919-942-1740. Why: "Love's inarticulate when it does appear: it's just lazy speech -- love talk -- and not specific and you can't exchange it for much." "we know so little but on that / we base everything" See you there.... *Internationalist Books: http://www.internationalistbooks.org *Desert City Poetry Series: http://desertcity.blogspot.com C. S. Giscombe: http://www.centerforbookculture.org/dalkey/backlist/giscombe.html Jon Thompson: http://www.parlorpress.com/thompson.html http://english.chass.ncsu.edu/freeverse/ Contact the DCPS: Ken Rumble: rumblek at bellsouth dot net Next Month: January 15th, Saturday, 8pm: Standard Schaeffer & Marcos Canteli w/ Rachel Price Jon Thompson "Writing History" If everything becomes everything else if every event touches every other event creates it reverberates through and beyond it then nothing is inconsequential and history is both what we are and what we are becoming a continuous making and unmaking a story of unspeakable intimacy and unspeakable loss here is a photograph of winter and dusk and train tracks and a grimy factory woman who is trying to make her way home someone who has passed out of one history into another where the blanks are unfillable we know so little but on that we base everything & the photographer who is about to take her photograph he does not know her does not know her reason his own this man who became the photograph I now hold in my hand how the blanks & spaces fill the years how much the body the tired body the photographed body the figurative body depends upon them the spaces that loom larger longer wider what was it you saw when you glanced up at him that man who lived in a world which still thought the world was all in the things you could see C. S. Giscombe from _Giscome Road_ The song's a commotion rising in the current, almost an apparition: or the shape rises -- obvious, river-like -- in the blood (in the house that the blood made) & goes on, is the fact of hte "oldest ancestor," in who name etc description itself persists on out, not like some story into the uplands, on into the stony breakdown, no line between the old river god & the old man's name coming up along the river & on the road: an endless invisible present going on, a noise (with nothing at the other side of it) . . . Having wanted to drive out to the edge, right out to the mutest edge out there, the mutest edge, the emptiest soundstage, out to the invisibility there, out to all that "up" there in Canada that took place up there -- Giscome, B. C. all unincorporated now up on the Upper Fraser Rd off desolate Rte 16 to Alberta, off the Alberta-bound road the Yellowhead (for Pierre B---, the blonde Iroquois who'd arrived at the mountains there at the Alberta end, the source of the road): miscegenation's the longest nuance, the longest-lasting open secret (in old B.C., Gov. Douglas was also "a man of colour," "a West Indian of racially mixed parentage" out at the end of a pier in Victoria, welcoming "creole," pragmatic . . . [Northern Road] The arrival at the edge of water some little end of the water come to & breached (in a stretch forward or as though in a gesture from, typically, one of so many edges), a hiatus in the travel by water, the build of negatives & switchbacks along the same old bank the edge of a story the story's same old edge through the new twists, almost intestinal from all maps of it, knotted -- the edge in the voice, the little edge creeping, a fast little edge that could have crept into the voices & stayed there unrelieved 'til the edge was come to of the water itself (the endless description) the endlessness of the story breached at the foot finally at the root of the trees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:54:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: Howw to Diffuse What Norrthwest Iss Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed from the 9 lb. Hammer (beverages) Georgetown, Seattle, 98108 Ride Like It's Stolen youwillonlymakemattersworse youwillonlymake matersworse youwillonlymakemattersworse youwillonlymake matersworse youwillonlymakemattersworse youwillonlymake matersworse youwillonlymakemattersworse youwillonlymake matersworse youwillonlymakemattersworse youwillonlymake matersworse ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:45:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Fw: Your Star Spangled Manner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit he overdosed have ya forgotten? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 01:55:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: for marilyn a more than beautiful show l- steve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit a beutiful little show at farran center gallery ( a doctor's office) at 415 e. 57th st off 1st avenyc looking back/reaching forward - Works on paper by Marilyn Sontag LIGHT the chaos of a line the aleph of color within a crossword-puzzled spectrum EARTH dancing inside the raised thigh of the horse sat atop raised cap of the ruling statue metal into dust LIVE i have won this lottery cut & carved splashed w/just enough gold over the blue/white ‘scapes to prove: figures come /// go in a pool of nothing’s air deep night sky speckled spectacled & spectatored we populate infinities w/ our grudges amaze the demons w/our songs took from same rock papered scissored stamped scribbled scrambled protracted provident w/delicacy of seasons to uphold - a jar come past trapped w/in a maze of free will created by lose bent corrugated TIME which it is not & never was smeared punctuated & punctured a soft cushion of granite as precise as moments are to rest our unrest upon compressed compassed come to pass this ticket tear it keep your stub it assures "safe" passage to the insides of the outside. for marilyn steve dalachinsky nyc farran gallery 11/08/04 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:32:23 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "andrew lovatt, editor" Subject: In-Reply-To: <20041110050223.9918F1D8438B8@postie.hosting365.ie> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit DIGests ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 03:27:03 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bdwlk brghtn to coney & back looking for a pm where sea meets shore brds huddle agnst wind 3:00...flat as the ea....dull as the ound...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:34:03 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pound was very depressed at the end of his life - oculdnt write - felt he had failed etc - but the Cantos is a marvellous acheivement - sure he was obsessed with making political change but that isnt really possible - especially not in the strange way that Pound thought - he was somewhat Utopian and the best of him was great in that respect, and great as a as lyric poet and a epicist - the worst of him was a fascist and muddled - at his best there are some marvelously fine writings in the Cantos I love his traslation and rewriting of Ovid - the transformation of the ship that takes Dionysius etc Inside none of us who writes feel (all the time) that what we write is futile - any thing can be good if you feel good about it......eating - when I am well, is my favourite activity for eg lol These poets (including Pound baby) take/took themselves too seriously - poetry is just another thing I do (it is just a hobby lets face it we are all hobbyists: even Nick and Charles Bernstein) - like to eat, read, rave about politics etc (doesnt do much good), play chess, ring people, go for a walk, feed the cat, talk to the cat, go to the shops, ring my grandson, and so on.........but its all life: and life is both serious and funny and tragic and comic. 'we, strange beating things' Richard Taylor PS The US politics etc in teh Cantos I find a bit boring but it could be seen that the "dry' stuff "chimes" with the corruscations etc Charles Bernstein's essay "Pounding Fascism" is quite a good summary of Pound - I know there is a journal Paieduma - I read some one in that once (dipping into that august magazine - its almost a cult object....) and he was anylysing the Cantos - his conclusion was something like - "but there is no design, no structure...it doesnt connect up" !!! Such a lack of "connection" could be a writer's strength. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anastasios Kozaitis" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 11:03 AM Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > You must be saying that facetiously, Chris. > > I'm am MORE than certain that what Ez considered his particular kind > of poetry all there was or is in terms of poetry for that matter... > > > On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:42:53 -0800, Chris Stroffolino > wrote: > > "That I lost my world > > fighting the center" > > > > could equally be apt? > > > > Mary--do you think Pound is saying poetry is futile in that > > or rather that his particular kind of poetry is? > > > > ---------- > > >From: Mary Jo Malo > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > > >Date: Tue, Nov 9, 2004, 6:40 AM > > > > > > > > That I lost my center > > > fighting the world > > > The dreams clash > > > and are shattered > > > > > > and that I tried to make a paradiso > > > terrestre > > > > > > http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/pound/notes.htm > > > > > > i'll have none > > > of your -ologies > > > no advice > > > show me what works > > > what has been proven > > > on the side of the road > > > on the office floor > > > give me the dice > > > i'm loading them my way > > > > > > mary jo > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 04:49:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Re: Fw: Your Star Spangled Manner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are all trying to get away from something. Work, elections, reality, pain, responsibility, everyones closet has a skeleton. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Dalachinksy To: Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:45 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Your Star Spangled Manner > he overdosed have ya forgotten? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:22:11 -0600 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: website design MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm a little short of cash here in blowsy, bluesy Providence, so if anyone needs a web design, let me know. I have a "starving artist" rate, but since I don't want to turn the poetics list into craig's list, I'll keep my rates to myself. Here are a few recent designs: http://www.abigailchild.com/ (Abigail Child) http://www.arras.net/fscII/ (Free Space Comix II) http://www.segue.org/ (Segue) http://www.janehouseprods.com/ (Jane House Productions) http://invisiblelight.org/ (Invisible Light Studio) And here's a recent web poem: http://www.arras.net/winter_was_hard/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:01:43 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Falwell Plans For 'Evangelical Jihad' Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Falwell Plans For 'Evangelical Jihad': Move Designed To Increase Wealth Of Failing Ministry: Ashcroft To Join Board: Minister Does Not Rule Out Armed, Iraqi Type Insurgency: Halliburton Gets Contract To Rebuild Fallujah For Third Time By BOWAND KURTZY They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:47:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Election Data Maps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thought you all might find this very interesting. -- alex http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:20:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Majzels Subject: Re: Poetry is Rebellion In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting, in small doses, to follow US progressives trying to figure=20= out why their nation reelected Bush. =46rom this side of the border=20 (north), it's perhaps too easy to moralize; nevertheless... Isn't it possible that the problem of why the majority of American=20 voters voted for Bush is not a question of false consciousness,=20 misinformation or the power of propaganda. People are not certainly not=20= that dumb. I doubt pro-Republicans particularly believe George Bush=20 when he says he is bombing the civilian population of Iraq's major=20 cities because he wants to set them free. Nor do they think he believes=20= it. Or care. The great majority of Americans, whether Christian,=20 right-wing Christian, or otherwise can read the Presidential wink. They=20= know he's doing it for oil. But they too want oil. And the cheaper the=20= better. Those who have some money put away in mutual funds know those=20 savings are likely to increase with military spending and corporate tax=20= breaks. They are simply prepared to sacrifice non-Americans and poor=20 Americans in the process, especially if they dress in long robes and=20 long beards, or have a different skin colour. They prefer not to say=20 so, naturally. And they appreciate that George Bush and his pals are=20 providing a discourse to package it. And yet, progressive forces in the US continue to say: "We support the=20= troops?" True, those troops are, for the most part, recruited in minority and poor communities, but the soldiers voted overwhelmingly=20 for Bush in the election. Why? Self-deluded? Or because the military=20 offers them a way out of the ghetto, and grinding poverty. All right,=20 this opportunity requires in exchange that they risk their lives and=20 murder others. But they're smart enough to know nothing is free. So be=20= it. Shouldn't we be telling them: don't do it. Don't sign up. And if you=20 have signed up, get out, go awol, refuse to fight. Those who continue=20 to go in and fight have to accept the responsibility. I cannot support=20= them, help them, give them better equipment, or wish them well. Surely,=20= by now, there are no more "innocent" Americans. My support has to go to=20= those Americans who take action to resist their government, and to the=20= enemies of the US, those who resist its invasions. One would have=20 thought the time for clever educational strategies of propaganda, for=20 sweet-talking the masses in new and more palatable discourses was over.=20= We went through all these discussions during the Viet Nam War. The=20 Vietnamese came to the conclusion that the only convincing argument=20 they could make to the American people was in body bags, in higher and=20= higher economic costs, and finally in defeat. And yet, there were still some US progressives who somehow believed it=20= was the anti-war movement in the US that ended that war. As thought it=20= had to be Americans themselves who are the agents of change; never the=20= Other. Speaking of myths, it might be useful to explore again the=20 question of why Americans, even the more critical-minded, still believe=20= in their founding myth. They think of their country, a nation founded=20 on the pillars of slavery and violence, and run by an economic elite,=20 as a great liberating experiment in popular democracy, now in danger of=20= going wrong, being high-jacked (what do you mean by "give us back a=20 democracy..." =97 when do you think you had one?). The rest of the world=20= cannot afford the luxury of such illusions. The truth is probably that=20= the American century is already over. The problem is that we cannot be=20= sure that the nation that began by slaughtering its native peoples,=20 enslaving Africans, and drenching the continent in its own blood, the=20 only nation to ever use nuclear weapons on a civilian population, is=20 likely to go quietly. Robert Majzels On 9-Nov-04, at 3:42 PM, Joe Amato wrote: > well---there is something in this argument re the left's failure, > that ray references, that keeps popping up here, and which i'm > puzzled by, frankly: > > i don't think the south-rural or west-rural (or north or east-rural) > inhabitants of the u.s. are stupid, no... i do believe, however, > that, like many in the u.s. but perhaps in greater proportions, > they're misinformed... this may not be the reason why rural areas > went bush, of course (or, one might add, why metro areas went kerry), > since there's the sticky matter of whether these residents "chose" to > be misinformed (here we get into all manner of ideological > speculation)... and i'm not even sure whether, e.g., suburban > evangelicals aren't a better litmus of what just went down... but my > point is thus: if 60% of the u.s. public still thinks hussein had > something to do with 9/11, this means that they're not listening, > and/or that they don't want to listen, and/or that they're listening > to the wrong people... whatever the case, they're > > WRONG > > by all accounts, based on what we know today, as of this writing... > > now, being wrong does not necessarily imply stupidity, and being > wrong never stopped anyone from casting a ballot... i mentioned on > this list louis menand's article in ~the new yorker~ a few months > back, a great piece on why voters vote the way they do... there are > people who study such matters, and while it remains unclear perhaps > as to how informed the u.s. electorate is, voting habits are > decidedly whimsical, often based on a disparagingly few factors (or > perceived factors), and what's more, *reliably* so... > > to move voters is one thing, though, to alter beliefs is another... i > suspect some combination of electioneering tactics and revaluation > (of beliefs) is the way out of this mess we're in... i don't know how > to go about this, no---changing the rhetoric doesn't necessarily mean > a change in the discourse, and changing the discourse doesn't > necessarily mean changing attitudes... how to convince people, for > instance, that an economic policy has everything to do with morality. > > but while i don't myself hail from rural stock (so to speak), the > sentiment i'm expressing here, like the argument i'm making, is not > about facing some music (i.e., reality) that i've hitherto refused to > accept (as i like to believe i damn well know what folks in rural > areas think, ok?---having spent enough time around same)... the > reality that needs to be confronted is not simply a metro vs. retro > divide, or an urban vs. rural divide, or a sectarian vs. secular > divide, or what have you (though these terms all designate factors in > what's just transpired, sure)... > > to me the larger issue turns on how to develop an informed > electorate, and like mark weiss of a few posts back, i'm not sure how > we get from A to Z on this one... it's not that i believe the truth > will necessarily set us free, you understand, but when you witness, > in a state like wisconsin, a move to put creationism on equal footing > with evolutionary theory (i.e., in the classroom), you have to wonder > whether even serious election reform measures---i.e., taking the > money out of politics---will give us back a democracy worth the > powder to blow to hell... appealing to voters interests is well and > good, but voters, it seems to me, should be voting not on the basis > of their interests, or on the basis even of this willowy construction > we call "conscience"---which, if you ask people, ends up meaning > everything from opinion to conviction to individual salvation---but > on the basis of what's best for the country, and for the globe... > that is, on the basis of something greater than oneself or one's kin > or one's kind, as conflicted as this might prove to be in practice... > > best, > > joe > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:41:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Onion In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This article explains the election results pretty well: http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4045 Best, Joseph --- Alan Sondheim wrote: > steam > Foofwa d'Imobilite the dancer > http://www.asondheim.org/luz.mp4 > thinking about his next move of arm or leg > for every arm or leg of move he must think: > shall it go this way or that > he will be full of disgust for this arm or leg this > time > when it is very cold and his spirit is steam > his spirit is steam steam steam > > _ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:58:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong In-Reply-To: <296e379104110914036b94e8a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit with all due respect, this is a valid question, especially for the emotionally shattered, disturbed e.p. who wrote the late cantos. even the robust, younger pound had conceded that his society and culture had stopped listening to him (see hugh selwyn mauberly, and the literary essays, etc.) indeed half the cantos are taken up with kvetching about the poet's high place among princes of antiquity (Malatesta, the Albigensians, Confucius) and how things ain't what they used to be. then pound signed on with mussolini, thinking he would restore that place, and was figuratively and literally broken by the result. I think it's fair to say that pound really thought he had failed in his project to make a paradiso > > terrestre which is what the cantos are about. he said as much to allen ginsberg when he visited him in italy not long before he died. of course allen tried to convince him he was wrong about that and for many poets he succeeded brilliantly. but for others the cantos are no doubt a turgid, fragmented mess. DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Anastasios Kozaitis Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 2:04 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong You must be saying that facetiously, Chris. I'm am MORE than certain that what Ez considered his particular kind of poetry all there was or is in terms of poetry for that matter... On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:42:53 -0800, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > "That I lost my world > fighting the center" > > could equally be apt? > > Mary--do you think Pound is saying poetry is futile in that > or rather that his particular kind of poetry is? > > ---------- > >From: Mary Jo Malo > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > >Date: Tue, Nov 9, 2004, 6:40 AM > > > > > That I lost my center > > fighting the world The dreams clash > > and are shattered > > > > and that I tried to make a paradiso > > terrestre > > > > http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/pound/n otes.htm > > > > i'll have none > > of your -ologies > > no advice > > show me what works > > what has been proven > > on the side of the road > > on the office floor > > give me the dice > > i'm loading them my way > > > > mary jo > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:47:17 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Rebecca Seiferle - 2004 Lannan Foundation In-Reply-To: <20041110164156.8257.qmail@web51902.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Awards for Rebecca Seiferle from the Lannan Foundation: on today's New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/10/arts/10arts.html?pagewanted=3Dall Reaping and Writing Four novelists, two poets and two writers of nonfiction have been chosen by the Lannan Foundation of Santa Fe, N.M., to receive $925,000 in literary awards and fellowships for their work. The poet W. S. Merwin will receive the foundation's lifetime achievement award, carrying a $200,000 prize. Three literary awards of $125,000 each will go to Rikki Ducornet, a novelist in residence at the University of Denver and author of "Gazelle,'' a novel set in Cairo in the 1950's (Alfred A. Knopf, 2003); Peter Reading, a British poet; and Lu=EDs Alberto Urrea, for his nonfiction work, including "The Devil's Highway'' (Little, Brown, 2004), an account of a group of Mexican men who died in the desert while crossing illegally from Mexico into the United States in 2001. The Lannan Foundation also awarded literary fellowships to Edwidge Danticat, above, a novelist and author of "The Dew Breaker'' (Knopf, 2004); Thomas Frank, a social critic and author of "What's the Matter With Kansas?'' (Metropolitan, 2004); Mavis Gallant, the Canadian novelist and short-story writer; Micheline Aharonian Marcom, born in Saudi Arabia and author of "The Daydreaming Boy'' (Riverhead, 2004), a novel about a survivor of Turkey's Armenian massacres; and Rebecca Seiferle, the author of three books of poetry, including "Bitters'' (Copper Canyon Press, 2001). EDWARD WYATT And on the Lannan site: http://lannan.org/ 2004 Lannan Literary Fellowship Rebecca Seiferle has published three books of poetry, is editor/publisher of the literary website, The Drunken Boat (http://www.thedrunkenboat.com/), and is a noted translator of major poets from the Spanish language tradition. After many years on staff at San Juan Community College in Farmington, NM, she is currently teaching at Brandeis University. Her first book, The Ripped-Out Seam, was published in 1993 to great acclaim and her second, The Music We Dance To, was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize and the 1998 Cecil Hemley Award from the Poetry Society of America. Her latest collection, Bitters, was published in 2001 and won a Pushcart Prize and the Western States Book Award. And on the Poets' Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D28 With my Warmest Compliments to Rebecca Seiferle! Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com=20 http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admire= rs. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:57:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Poetry is Rebellion Comments: cc: Kass Fleisher In-Reply-To: <7D61B606-3334-11D9-B8C9-000A95ADFC36@sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" robert, what you describe would fall under the category of people who "don't want to listen"... and the motives for not wanting to listen are in all likelihood variously self-interested, fearful, stubborn, ignorant, etc, as you suggest... from strictly an electioneering standpoint, the democrats and others will be looking for ways to allay or redirect that self-interestedness, fear, stubbornness, etc... that is, assuming we can show that bush really was elected even on these rather self-conscious terms (surely a number of people voting for bush were consciously choosing him on this basis---but not all people voted for him on this basis... i'm reminded of that analysis of the electorate in terms of formal education---the more educated classes voted for kerry)... but as i'm trying to suggest, whether or not that election effort succeeds---and this will turn in part on what the next four years bring---leftist politics in the u.s. will likely be hampered by a failure not only of rhetoric, but of conceptualization/belief... perhaps this constitutes a failure of the social imagination (if you will)... for long-term change and not simply damage control, i would think the emergence of left-wing think tanks (etc.) are essential to altering the social landscape---over time... also, i wouldn't be so hasty to dismiss the antiwar movement of the 60s... surely that movement took its lead from body counts... so, people die in a war, and other people who might die (or might have died) protest people dying... it's an odd sort of logic that claims that said protest movement did not really end the war---that people dying ended the war... i mean, what if people died and nobody protested?... or are you suggesting that there was a silent protest of sorts that ended the war? (and to claim thus would require that we get into details that this list and my fingers probably can't support at the moment)... that the right has been right along decrying the protest movements of the sixties, and that some on the right claim that the war would have been WON w/o same, makes me doubly suspicious of what you're saying... as to whether this nation and its checkered past is a "great liberating experiment in popular democracy," as you put it: well, the chomsky's of the world will never cede this sort of ground, and will (i daresay) never on this basis get elected (i'm a big fan of chomsky's, btw, albeit i didn't like his response to 9/11)... in fact chomsky is fond of saying that no one ought to be proud of their government... in some sense one's outlook on such matters depends on whether one expects governments to be entirely humane entities... it didn't take me too long to figure out that the usa had a [cough] checkered past, for instance (and continues to be in denial about same, in many ways)... so i have mixed feelings about this, in that, on the one hand, this nation has often acted as a nation in utterly barbaric ways... yet, on the other, i wouldn't live anyplace else (even today---though i could sure stand a six-month break from the 48 just about now)... kinda like when i visit the Big City (chicago, nyc, what have you), which, for all of its wonders, can on a bad day feel an awful lot like a bad dream when you consider the racial-economic disparities that plague such massive concrete pours... but if you walk into the Big City knowing this to be the case, you may be more prepared to appreciate its offerings (while in the back of your mind you just KNOW there are people who are having a really, really bad day)... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:34:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: daysareokay Subject: Launch parties for Experimental Narrative Anthology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lots of great people in this. camille roy > Biting the Error: Writers Explore Narrative > Coach House Press > Edited by Mary Burger, Robert Glück, Camille Roy and Gail Scott, > co-founders of Narrativity,(www.sfsu.edu/~poetry/narrativity/) , > a web journal housed by The Poetry Center, San Francisco State > University. > > Biting the Error brings together writers from Tijuana to Montréal. In > this groundbreaking anthology, > forty-eight of the continent's most provocative writers describe > their engagement with language, > storytelling and the world. The book includes Kathy Acker, Lisa > Robertson, Kevin Killian, > Christian Bök, Dennis Cooper, Nicole Brossard, Lydia Davis, Carla > Harryman, Lynne Tillman, > Taylor Brady, Eileen Myles, Pamela Lu, and many many more. Brave, > energetic and fresh, Biting > the Error tells a whole new story about narrative. The essays are > visionary, analytical and > intensely personal - they are manifestos, tall tales and playful > confections. They explore > experience at the margins, the uses of the sentence and of the novel, > the negotiations > between different orders of time, the 'performance' of outlaw subject > matter, and how > representation may be torqued by gender, sexuality and the mystery > that is the body. > > An exemplary and highly energized series of readings--precisely what the > painfully undermined contemporary intellect needs. George Bataille > says that we > all require stories in order to subsist in a crucial, if lacerated, way. > "Biting the Error" explores narrative hunger with voracious tenacity. > Avital Ronell > > > > Toronto: > Join us at Bar Italia on Monday, Nov. 15 for the Toronto launch of > Biting the Error. The launch will > feature readings from Gail Scott and Robert Glück and local > contributor Derek McCormack. > 15 November, 8.00 pm > Bar Italia > 582 College St. > Toronto > > > New York City: > Eight innovative authors from Canada and the U.S. read from diverse > and groundbreaking texts. > Editors Mary Burger, Robert Glück, Camille Roy and Gail Scott will be > joined by > contributors Renee Gladman, Douglas A. Martin, Derek McCormack and > Eileen Myles. A book signing will > follow the reading. > > 18 November, 7.00 pm > KGB Bar > 85 East 4th St. > New York City > > San Francisco: > > Modern Times Bookstore hosts the launch with a reading with Mary > Burger, Robert Glück and Camille Roy, > Aja Duncan, Rob Halpern, Kevin Killian, Doug Rice, Robin > Tremblay-McGaw, Paul VanDeCarr > and Magdelena Zurawski. > > Wednesday, December 1, 7:00 > Modern Times Bookstore > 888 Valencia Street at 20th Street > San Francisco, CA 94110 > Telephone: 415 282 9246 > > > Oakland: > Book release party with readers Taylor Brady, Laura Moriarty, and > Leslie Scalapino, and editors > Mary Burger, Robert Gluck, and Camille Roy. Live music with Bay Area > jazz/pop ensemble > Evidence of the King. > > Friday, Dec. 10, 8:00 p.m. > at 21 Grand, 449B 23rd St., > Oakland CA 94612 > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:06:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Brigitte Byrd Subject: MLA/Philadelphia: Bush, hotels, readings and other miracles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, everyone. I heard that Bush might make an appearance at the MLA convention this year. He has been working on _ostranenie_ for the last four years and has reached an understanding of the concept of defamiliarization which he will present in a paper titled "We'll be a great country where the fabrics are made up of groups and loving centers." So, I'm going! I had already planned to go as I am on the job market, and I will take my teenage daughter with me (the convention happens to be scheduled during a most unconvenient time for single parents--or any parents for that matter). Anyhow, may I ask if anyone could recommend a hotel or a bed and breakfast close to the Pensylvannia Convention Center, either one from the list provided by the MLA or another one in that area. I am operating on a limited budget, so there, you know it! Are any readings outside of the convention planned(like the poetry reading in San Diego, last year)? After all, Bush said, "If I'm the president, we're going to have emergency room care, we're going to have gag orders," so I'm a bit concerned. Merci, Brigitte ===== Visiting Instructor English Department Florida State University Tallahassee, FL 32308-1580 (850)645-0103 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:14:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: Poetry is Rebellion In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit joe wrote: ..| voters...should be voting not on the basis ..| of their interests, or on the basis even of... ..| "conscience"...but on the basis of what's ..| best for the country, and for the globe... ..| that is, on the basis of something greater ..| than oneself or one's kin or one's kind, as ..| conflicted as this might prove to be in practice I see an inherent problem with this course of action, joe. Candidly stated: defining what is "good" for everybody seems to be an absurd exercise. The act of voting is a numbers game tasked with defining what is 'good' -- a *might-makes-right* philosophy which equates quantity with quality. I have given ample demonstration, I hope, of the aggression it supports and maintains. (Also, as an aside: if you live by the vote, you die by the vote -- therefore nobody should be complaining about an outcome they themselves have fully endorsed and orchestrated.) In short, as soon as one 'buys' into "the basis of something greater than oneself" they are giving their authority away. The act of identifying with the external ensures no one ends up with any principles of their own. (ie. The news becomes nothing but verbatim from company press releases.) So, I humbly suggest tuning into a more capable method: turning on to oneself, and dropping-out of the categorical/hierarchical mindset. The latter is nothing but a flag-waving attempt to equate true happiness and blessedness with the pride of enjoying something to the exclusion of others (ie. I'm a Republican; I'm a Language Poet). Let's see a return to the category of the person! (ie. a song of 'myself') which celebrates enjoyment of what agrees with one's nature -- not the malicious joy of celebrating benefits gained from a particular exclusion. "Nature without check...The atmosphere is not a perfume " ..| i mean, what if people died and nobody ..| protested?... Imagine all the people Not dying and Not protesting! Why do so many insist on perpetuating war and aggression? "Can't find anyone who's willing to be last..." "Can't find anyone who doesn't want to police the wind!" "A world of conscious mercy, a world we could create if we all sat down and decided not to be great!" -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:29:41 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Found Poem -- Post 11-2 South MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Found Poem: The Post 11-2 South We should have let them go when they wanted to leave. But no -- We had to kill half a million people so they'd stay, like people who=92ll fight for the right to keep slaves sound like real moral folks. And, of course, what do we get? Name-calling: we're called the arrogant northeast liberal elite. But how about this for arrogant: the South is the Real America. the Authentic America. Really? We founded this country, pal. Those Founding Fathers you keep going on and on about? Who do you think those wig-wearing lacy-shirt sporting revolutionaries were? They were blue-staters, pal. Boston? Philadelphia? New York? Hello? Think there might be a reason all the monuments are up here? No, no. Just get out. We're not letting you visit the Liberty Bell and Plymouth Rock any more until you get over your "Real American" selves and start respecting those other nine amendments. Who do you think those stripes on the flag are for? Nine are for blue states -- and it would be ten if those early Vermonters had gotten their Subarus together and broken off from New York a little sooner. Get it? Don't get all uppity about how real you are, you "Oooooh I've been a state for almost a hundred years" Johnny-come-latelies. All those Federal taxes you love to hate? They come from us and go to you. You enjoy your Tennessee Valley Authority electricity and your fancy bridges and highways that we paid for. And the next time they need repaired, Or the next time Florida gets hit by a hurricane, you can come crying to us if you want to, but don=92t expect any more money: you're the ones who built on an outlying province of a swamp -- not that I think there=92s any province that can out-lie Florida. Who=92re the ones who say "It's your money, not the government's money"? Nine of the ten states that get the most federal dollars and pay the least... can you guess? Go on, guess. That's right, pal, they're red states. And eight of the ten states that receive the least and pay the most? Too easy, pal -- they're blue states. It's not your money, it's our money. What was that Real American Value you were spouting a minute ago? Self reliance? Try this for self reliance: buy your own stop signs, pal. Now that we=92re on the subject, let's talk about those values for a minute. Which state do you think has the lowest divorce rate In the nation? Well? Can you guess? It's Massachusetts, the center of the gay marriage universe. Think that's just some aberration? How about this: 9 of the 10 lowest divorce rates are blue states, pal, and most are in the Northeast And where are the highest divorce rates? Care to guess? Ten of the top ten are those we're-so-moral Red states. And while Nevada is the worst, the Bible Belt is doing its full part. But in spite of that, you think two guys making out is going to ruin marriage for you? Yeah? Seems like you're ruining it pretty well on your own Ever think of that, pal? No, you're too busy erecting giant stone tablets of the Ten Commandments in buildings paid for by the Northeast Liberal Elite. And who has the highest murder rates in the nation? It=92s not us up here in the North, pal. Well this gravy train is over. Take your liberal-bashing, confederate-flag-waving, holier-than-thou, federal-tax-leaching, hypocritical bullshit and stew in it until the next hurricane or tornado blows it up in your faces again. . We=92ll be using the money we don=92t send you to fix it to build our hospitals and our schools. Y=92all pray, now, heah? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:12:05 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: poetry & futility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DH, Thank you for concurring. I also think that rebellion such as it is will always fail. Each generation has somewhere a voice for peace and rebellion, but the greater rebellion goes beyond politics and religion. It's philosophical as Camus so aptly writes. Continuing to dignify humanity, while admirable and worthy as occupation and way of life, it still won't change anything. All we can do is push back harder against the prevailing winds of stupidity. It's very naive to think we will change the fundamental problems of human nature with any significant numbers. Living existentially and situationally is the best we can do. Poets are poets because they want to express themselves in a particular format. It's futile only in the sense that it won't change the world, but it may enrich someone's life as art often does. On the other hand, so can a warm meal, shelter from the cold, a smile, or cold hard cash. What thou lovest well must remain to tear down, I say, tear down and not become the diffident. Poetry can make wonderful connections, however temporary. Mary Jo with all due respect, this is a valid question, especially for the emotionally shattered, disturbed e.p. who wrote the late cantos. even the robust, younger pound had conceded that his society and culture had stopped listening to him (see hugh selwyn mauberly, and the literary essays, etc.) indeed half the cantos are taken up with kvetching about the poet's high place among princes of antiquity (Malatesta, the Albigensians, Confucius) and how things ain't what they used to be. then pound signed on with mussolini, thinking he would restore that place, and was figuratively and literally broken by the result. I think it's fair to say that pound really thought he had failed in his project to make a paradiso > > terrestre which is what the cantos are about. he said as much to allen ginsberg when he visited him in italy not long before he died. of course allen tried to convince him he was wrong about that and for many poets he succeeded brilliantly. but for others the cantos are no doubt a turgid, fragmented mess. DH ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:20:05 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: Guilty Pleasures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed With all this talk about "moral values" that's going around, I'm interested in how the notion of moralism can also subconsciously infect aesthetics and issues of social justice, in conversations among those of us in the blue states and in general. So, here's one direction in which to take that: what are some of your "guilty pleasures" in contemporary poetry? Things that you like, but feel maybe a little embarassed to like? What kind of moralistic aesthetic limits do you place on your own reading and do you ever find yourself wanting to rebel from these limits or subvert them? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:32:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marc Nasdor Subject: Tonight! DJ Poodlecannon spins at Lava Gina world music lounge In-Reply-To: <200411092102.1crKCH3js3NZFpr0@mx-a065a01.pas.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable It=B9s Wednesday, I'm still in denial, nobody is president, and I feel like sticking it to the Man... So if you are in New York City, please join me tonight at LAVA GINA 116 Avenue C (bet. 7th =AD 8th Sts.) 212-477-9319 for DJ Poodlecannon=B9s Globalternative Mix Chomping at the Red States' jiggly-assed US-centrism... Drink specials all night... 1. Roma-balkan brass bands 2. Early ska & rocksteady 3. Apocalyptic film soundtracks 4. Albanian hip hop 5. Cambodian psychedelia 6. Dark Swedish electric folk 7. Bollywood remix=20 8. Flamenco flamenco flamenco! 9. Hybrid Mexican cumbia-mariachi-rap 10. 70s Ethiopian hermetic funk Tomorrow night, Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:30 pm =AD reasonably late Hope to see you there! - Marc (Nasdor) Info: (646) 408-4962 Directions: F train to 2nd Avenue, exit at front of train (First Ave. & Houston), or L train to First Avenue & 14th St. 14 St. Bus heading east. Taxi, bike, helicopter, rocket-pack, transporter beam... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:34:46 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Off-Campus reading during MLA in Philly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'd like to have poets in town for MLA give a La Tazza Reading Series special presentation. It isn't far away from the Convention Center. If you're in town & want to read, backchannel me. Frank Sherlock >From: Brigitte Byrd >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: MLA/Philadelphia: Bush, hotels, readings and other miracles >Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:06:55 -0800 > >Hi, everyone. > >I heard that Bush might make an appearance at the MLA >convention this year. He has been working on >_ostranenie_ for the last four years and has reached >an understanding of the concept of defamiliarization >which he will present in a paper titled "We'll be a >great country where the fabrics are made up of groups >and loving centers." So, I'm going! > >I had already planned to go as I am on the job market, >and I will take my teenage daughter with me (the >convention happens to be scheduled during a most >unconvenient time for single parents--or any parents >for that matter). Anyhow, may I ask if anyone could >recommend a hotel or a bed and breakfast close to the >Pensylvannia Convention Center, either one from the >list provided by the MLA or another one in that area. >I am operating on a limited budget, so there, you know >it! > >Are any readings outside of the convention >planned(like the poetry reading in San Diego, last >year)? After all, Bush said, "If I'm the president, >we're going to have emergency room care, we're going >to have gag orders," so I'm a bit concerned. > >Merci, Brigitte > > > > > >===== >Visiting Instructor >English Department >Florida State University >Tallahassee, FL 32308-1580 >(850)645-0103 > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:37:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: Found Poem -- Post 11-2 South Comments: To: marcus@designerglass.com In-Reply-To: <419217C5.10475.12B2B5A@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is a cleaned up version of the rant found at http://fuckthesouth.com/ Did that link get forwarded to the poeticslist? I can't recall. Personally, I like the rant version a bit more. Compare Marcus's strophe: > No, no. Just get out. We're not letting you visit > the Liberty Bell and Plymouth Rock any more > until you get over your "Real American" selves > and start respecting those other nine amendments. > Who do you think those stripes on the flag are for? > Nine are for blue states -- and it would be ten > if those early Vermonters had gotten their > Subarus together and broken off from New York > a little sooner. with the online version: No, No. Get the fuck out. We're not letting you visit the Liberty Bell and fucking Plymouth Rock anymore until you get over your real American selves and start respecting those other nine amendments. Who do you think those fucking stripes on the flag are for? Nine are for fucking blue states. And it would be 10 if those Vermonters had gotten their fucking Subarus together and broken off from New York a little earlier. Get it? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:49:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Guilty Pleasures Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 If participating in careering as a poet and writing words in an untradition= al manner and not making any cash from it and being marginalized to the poi= nt where your own family denounces your skill as a member of the workforce.= .. call it a guilty pleasure or perhaps a FETISH! --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:06:01 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: Re: Guilty Pleasures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed With all due respect, I find this too easy...the notion of poet vs. society has been around as long as the poete maudit (or even Ovid's "olive-silvery Sirmio"), and what I am actually asking is stated in terms WITHIN the social comunity of poets... What is something unfashionable you like, that you wouldn't be caught dead (by other poets) reading? Are we all aesthetic monks? Perhaps just a perverse thought, but I would be interested to hear... Best, Tim ------------------------------------- If participating in careering as a poet and writing words in an untraditional manner and not making any cash from it and being marginalized to the point where your own family denounces your skill as a member of the workforce... call it a guilty pleasure or perhaps a FETISH! -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:22:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Heidi Lynn Staples =?ISO-8859-1?B?bull?= Peppermint Subject: Re: Found Poem -- Post 11-2 South MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This poem and its source text concern me. I think it's an ethical imperative to avoid generalizing across groups. Take a look at the following stats: Idaho (68%bush-30%kerry), Indiana (60%bush-39%kerry), Kansas (62%bush- 36%kerry), Montana (59%bush-38%kerry) Nebraska (66%bush-32%kerry) North Dakota, (62%bush-35%kerry) South Dakota (60%bush-38%kerry), Utah (71%bush- 26%kerry), Wyoming (69%bush-29%kerry) http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/ nationalelectionresultsbystate.aspx?oi=P&rti=G&cn=1&tf=l Tennesse, one of the states specifically mentioned in the poem, has a breakdown of (56%bush-42%kerry). Tennessee, as you can see, leaned more toward Kerry than any of the non-southern states listed above. Same with Georgia (58- 41), Louisiana (56-42), North Carolina (56-43), & South Carolina (58-40). None of the many non-southern states with an overwhelming vote for Bush, nor Utah, which has the greatest percentage of votes for Bush, was mentioned in the poem or its source text. In addition, before bringing out the ol' civil-war saw and as-always dangerous stereotypes, I think one would need to look at the demographics behind the votes carefully to ascertain whether the Bush votes truly come from the Bubba contingent. Chrs, Heidi Heidi Lynn Staples GUESS CAN GALLOP (New Issues) http://www.wmich.edu/newissues/New_Issues_Titles/Staples/Staples_Page_Frameset.html available for online purchase at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930974442/qid=1096222956/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-8422421-0966239?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 PARAKEET editors@parakeetmag.org 115 Roosevelt Avenue Syracuse, New York 13210 315-472-9710 blog: http://mildredsumbrella.blogspot.com "To makes u."--Gertrude Stein ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:24:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Aching slash Comments: cc: cyberculture , Kathryn Dean-Dielman , Michael Kapalin , karen lemley , list@netbehaviour.org, underground poetry , naked readings , rhizome , John Schmidt , screenburn screenburn , X Stream , Tom Suhar , Matt Suleski , matt swarthout , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lying in your ashes, shedding: a lyre in shallows, and awash with trenches that succor only these frozen teats; I'm glad of your company tonight, aching, and happy I can slash and burn my route through each and every rancid dream of your cleft brow. I've never been gladder than when the saddest eyes I've ever seen were lonely, and one luscious second they were on me. Pills and cannabis bleach like woolen suns, spitting out awful fullness, fucking in tune with nothing at all save the commonality of my absence. It's a law here that heats the windows into the little hearts I'm all outside of. This is good shit, like silk licking your lungs, like a skinny hispanic girl who walks in one night when you're alone, the one with the eyes pulling something else along. She's more than standing there. I do this for the good of my legs, which ache one day, and wish. ===== *************************************************************************** Lewis LaCook -->http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://www.corporatepa.com/ XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:39:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Poetry is Rebellion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" derek, you may well be right, if i understand aright your concern for the "person"... my concern is that more individuated fictions are at least as dangerous to the commonweal as is the cultivation of a social imagination that struggles with the question of the collective good... i still hold to the notion that a federal government has to be, well, federal---has to work in the face of vastly competing interests to do "what's best"... entirely fraught perhaps, but there it is... so *something* has to prompt voters into understanding that this is what a federal govt does, however imperfect... which is to say, we need change from below and from above (the latter on the basis of change from below, sure, but not solely so)... and this need have nothing to do with marching in the streets, though i applaud those who express their convictions in such terms (providing, that is, i can applaud the convictions themselves!)... but you may well be right, to the extent that this "person" you refer to is a construct that comes intact with an awareness and regard for the other... i would say that this begins to sound an awful like like one or another eastern religion, and while i'm not there person-ally, i would certainly not deny the legitimacy of that perspective... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:52:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Found Poem -- Post 11-2 South In-Reply-To: <20041110193749.59377.qmail@web51904.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed being from the South, I want to remind everyone that John Edwards, from NC, was on the Democratic ticket, and was brought on not solely for balance, but because it was his presence and rhetoric that appealed to red state voters. in general, i wish people would disaggregate both the USC and KJL. not a few people have come up with a map showing that we are purple rather than red and blue. Florida, for inst., can hardly be called purely red or purely blue, having been on the edge now in two elections. New Hampshire switched sides. and my native state, NC, went solidly for a Democratic governor, and nearly elected a Democratic senator. on the other hand, just across the water from here in Seattle, there are successful pols. whose basis in faith is probably as strong as Dubya (the exurbs that our mr. brooks likes to go on about in the NY Times). the real problem is that we seem to have red and blue neighborhoods, localities and counties, not red and blue states. there is another irony, here, besides the triumph of so-called morality issues. church-going and rural voters voted for further public asset-stripping and further impoverishment of the commons also on the basis of fear of terrorism, which frankly is not something that folks in Wyoming et. al. need to worry about. it's predominantly a blue state issue, since we are on the borders of the us and because the significant symbols of the US are in blue states. i suppose St. Louis' Arch may be a target, but folks in red states should get real and stop worrying about their churches and schools. a fierce Democratic party would start pulling down the curtain about the actual threat we face, and where we face it. the heartland may be where our "values" are, but the rest of world, including the terrorists, sees it as flyover country. Robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Joseph Thomas wrote: > This is a cleaned up version of the rant found at > > http://fuckthesouth.com/ > > Did that link get forwarded to the poeticslist? I > can't recall. > > Personally, I like the rant version a bit more. > Compare Marcus's strophe: > >> No, no. Just get out. We're not letting you visit >> the Liberty Bell and Plymouth Rock any more >> until you get over your "Real American" selves >> and start respecting those other nine amendments. >> Who do you think those stripes on the flag are for? >> Nine are for blue states -- and it would be ten >> if those early Vermonters had gotten their >> Subarus together and broken off from New York >> a little sooner. > > with the online version: > > No, No. Get the fuck out. We're not letting you visit > the Liberty Bell and fucking Plymouth Rock anymore > until you get over your real American selves and start > respecting those other nine amendments. Who do you > think those fucking stripes on the flag are for? Nine > are for fucking blue states. And it would be 10 if > those Vermonters had gotten their fucking Subarus > together and broken off from New York a little > earlier. Get it? > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > www.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:13:51 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Hamilton-Emery Subject: SILLIMAN AND SONDHEIM, NEW TITLES FROM SALT AVAILABLE NOW! Comments: To: UK POETRY , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, POETRYETC In-Reply-To: <020001c4c767$df544fa0$ce706395@DC3NX221> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable N E W T I T L E S F R O M S A L T NOVEMBER 2004 UNDER ALBANY Ron Silliman 1844710513 216 x 140 116pp GBP8.99 USD14.99 "With startling frankness, Under Albany lifts each =B3new sentence=B2 of Silliman=B9s Albany to show us what's underneath. The resulting paragraphs ar= e glimpses not only into Silliman's history, but into that of our times. Each is a sensitive seismograph recording shocks of social struggle." -- Rae Armantrout "Under Albany is the shadow movement of Ron Silliman=B9s epic of everyday life, The Alphabet. Silliman provides a set of extended, vividly etched, mostly autobiographical, meditations on the background for each of the original 100 sentences of his 1981 poem Albany. This constructivist memoir provides an exquisitely rich exploration of the relation of context to reference, subtext to meaning, back story to presented experience, and composition to poetics. All of Silliman=B9s work unravels and reforms in this exemplary and exhilarating act of attention, recollection, and reflection." -- Charles Bernstein THE WAYWARD Alan Sondheim 1844710475 216 x 140mm 252pp GBP12.99 USD19.99 "Sondheim=B9s work lives on the page, network, screen, and in live performance. He inhabits all-too-real imaginary spaces where code and flesh both taunt and attract each other. We are fortunate to be led, cyborg and prosthetic, by Alan=B9s unparalleled skill and sensitivity." -- Stephanie Strickland "Sondheim=B9s diasporic spin sends language whirling in cyberspace and on the page: his imagination puts us all in a verbal cosmos of exquisite touch and intellect, meta-commentary (midrash) and wor(l)d-healing. Welcome to his world wide web mind." -- Maria Damon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:24:16 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Found Poem -- Post 11-2 South In-Reply-To: <20041110202224.RQHL2329.out012.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable On 10 Nov 2004 at 14:22, Heidi Lynn Staples n=E9e Peppermint wrote: > This poem and its source text concern me. I think it's an ethical > imperative to avoid generalizing across groups. Take a look at the > following stats: Say, did you ever look into the number of young women who were actually invited to Dover to look out across the Channel while their lovers made mournful poetry about the view? I'd be concerned if I were you. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:44:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Wallace Subject: e-mail for Kevin Killian? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey folks: I'm trying to track down e-mail for Kevin Killian--please backchannel if you have it. Or Kevin, if you're still on this list, you can reach me at here at mdw@gwu.edu Thanks. Mark Wallace ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:07:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poets House Subject: Nathaniel Mackey and Ed Roberson at Poets House this Friday (11/12) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Black Serial Poetics: A Conversation & Reading with Nathaniel Mackey & Ed Roberson Introduced by Brent Hayes Edwards Friday, November 12, 7pm $7, Free for Members Poets Nathaniel Mackey and Ed Roberson read and discuss issues of innovatio= n and serial poetics, poetic precursors (from Robert Duncan to Amiri Baraka) and other formal influences, such as Black music. Nathaniel Mackey is the author of many books of poetry including Whatsaid Serif; an ongoing epistolary work of book-length installments (most recentl= y Atet A.D.); and the collection of essays Discrepant Engagement: Dissonance, Cross-Culturality, and Experimental Writing. He also co-edited the antholog= y Moment=B9s Notice: Jazz in Poetry and Prose. He teaches literature at UC Sant= a Cruz. Ed Roberson is the author of numerous volumes of poetry, including Voices Cast Out to Talk Us In, which was awarded the Iowa Poetry Prize, Just In: Word of Navigational Challenges and Atmosphere Conditions, winner of the 1998 National Poetry Series Competition. Translator, editor and English professor, Brent Hayes Edwards is the author of The Practice of Diaspora and co-editor of the collection Uptown Conversation: The New Jazz Studies. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:27:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sharmila Das Subject: Re: hi The message about knowing everyone's favorite poetry was intended towards everyone subscribed in this listserv. Sorry for any inconvenience. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:48:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: SOFTBLOW | Poetry Journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These are some more of my love poems made from poems I hate... SOFTBLOW presents 4 new poets: STEPHEN OLIVER, a transtasman poet & author of twelve titles of poetry. + TAYLOR GRAHAM, a native Californian & a volunteer search-and- rescue dog handler in the Sierra Nevada. + BASIM FURAT, Iraq-born poet whose work here is a translation from Arabic by Najah Al-jubaily & edited by Mark Pirie. + CATHERINE DALY, a poet from Los Angeles with an upcoming second book, Locket (Tupelo Press, 2004). Read their poems at http://www.softblow.com now. ~ SOFTBLOW invites you to stop by & let poetry change you. It is updated every month. If you would like to be featured on SOFTBLOW, do email us 4-6 poems as well as a biography. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:39:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Rebecca Seiferle - 2004 Lannan Foundation Comments: To: anny.ballardini@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline This is very wonderful news. Many many congratulations Rebecca. Vivas & = warm wishes, Mairead Mair=E9ad Byrne Assistant Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI 02903 www.wildhoneypress.com www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> Anny Ballardini 11/10/04 11:47 AM >>> Awards for Rebecca Seiferle from the Lannan Foundation: on today's New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/10/arts/10arts.html?pagewanted=3Dall Reaping and Writing Four novelists, two poets and two writers of nonfiction have been chosen by the Lannan Foundation of Santa Fe, N.M., to receive $925,000 in literary awards and fellowships for their work. The poet W. S. Merwin will receive the foundation's lifetime achievement award, carrying a $200,000 prize. Three literary awards of $125,000 each will go to Rikki Ducornet, a novelist in residence at the University of Denver and author of "Gazelle,'' a novel set in Cairo in the 1950's (Alfred A. Knopf, 2003); Peter Reading, a British poet; and Lu=EDs Alberto Urrea, for his nonfiction work, including "The Devil's Highway'' (Little, Brown, 2004), an account of a group of Mexican men who died in the desert while crossing illegally from Mexico into the United States in 2001. The Lannan Foundation also awarded literary fellowships to Edwidge Danticat, above, a novelist and author of "The Dew Breaker'' (Knopf, 2004); Thomas Frank, a social critic and author of "What's the Matter With Kansas?'' (Metropolitan, 2004); Mavis Gallant, the Canadian novelist and short-story writer; Micheline Aharonian Marcom, born in Saudi Arabia and author of "The Daydreaming Boy'' (Riverhead, 2004), a novel about a survivor of Turkey's Armenian massacres; and Rebecca Seiferle, the author of three books of poetry, including "Bitters'' (Copper Canyon Press, 2001). EDWARD WYATT And on the Lannan site: http://lannan.org/ 2004 Lannan Literary Fellowship Rebecca Seiferle has published three books of poetry, is editor/publisher of the literary website, The Drunken Boat (http://www.thedrunkenboat.com/), and is a noted translator of major poets from the Spanish language tradition. After many years on staff at San Juan Community College in Farmington, NM, she is currently teaching at Brandeis University. Her first book, The Ripped-Out Seam, was published in 1993 to great acclaim and her second, The Music We Dance To, was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize and the 1998 Cecil Hemley Award from the Poetry Society of America. Her latest collection, Bitters, was published in 2001 and won a Pushcart Prize and the Western States Book Award. And on the Poets' Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D28 With my Warmest Compliments to Rebecca Seiferle! Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com=20 http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather = admirers. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:48:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Heidi Lynn Staples =?ISO-8859-1?B?bull?= Peppermint Subject: [Fwd: POL: THIS SEEMS VERY IMPORTANT: Will Kerry Un-conceed?] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > From: Judith Barrington > Date: 2004/11/10 Wed PM 08:35:38 CST > To: WOM-PO@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU > Subject: POL: THIS SEEMS VERY IMPORTANT: Will Kerry Un-conceed? > > Please forward to all who have specifics on vote fraud. The > send-to address below is John Kerry's brother at his law firm. Kerry will > unconcede if there is solid evidence of fraud. We need first hand sufferers > so please get this info to them!! > > FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW > EMAIL FROM DC LAWYER CYNTHIA BUTLER > > I am angry and getting emails and recrimination from people wondering why > KERRY just caved and is not fighting this before the final count in Ohio, > before any of the fraud was challenged, before New Mexico and Iowa even > came in. > > There is widespread feeling that he did not lose the election and that it > was taken from him. > > There is enough here to warrant investigation and enough to challenge the > results. It's coming from all corners. > > I understand that he has until the official count certification in Ohio to > Un Concede which is several days from now. > > Anyone who thinks that he should unconcede should give reasons why - > whatever they noticed, particularly in Red Republican Governed States using > electronic machines- and send them directly to Cameron KERRY, John Kerry's > brother at his law firm at the address CKerry@Mintz.com > > They should inform us if they were not allowed to vote provisionally (for > whatever reason- they lost forms, ran out of forms, etc.) I personally > witnessed a number of things as I reported in Texas with the DCCC. > (Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee) > > If you know anyone in particular in Ohio who tried to vote and was turned > away at the polls please get their information and notify the campaign. > > They should be notified if they experienced lines longer than four > hours -particularly elderly or infirm people (we call that torture when they > do it to political prisoners). They should be notified if people were told > as has been reported that due to too many people showing up in African > American precincts, particularly in Ohio where there were too few booths > (some only had two or three for the entire precinct) and told because of > heavy turn out they could vote on Wednesday. If the numbers of these sorts > of incidents creates a percentage margin that exceeds the margin of > victory- Un Concession has to be made to challenge the count. > > If people wanted to and tried to vote and were prevented or actively > discouraged from doing so, that is a Civil Rights matter and must be dealt > with in terms of the ultimate count. > > > Please pass along this to your listservs so that we may make Democracy > Work in America. We are not a country where he who cheats best wins. > > Cynthia L. Butler > BUTLER LAW FIRM, P.C. > 1717 K St. NW, Suite 600 > Washington, DC 20036 > > > http://www.johnkerry.com/index.html > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, > signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are > not fed, those who > are cold and are not clothed. > Dwight D. Eisenhower, > Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, World War II > President of the United States 1953-60 > -- > Judith Barrington > > 622 SE 29th Avenue > Portland, OR 97214 > 503/236-9862 > 503/233-0774 (fax) > http://www.judithbarrington.com > Heidi Lynn Staples GUESS CAN GALLOP (New Issues) http://www.wmich.edu/newissues/New_Issues_Titles/Staples/Staples_Page_Frameset.html available for online purchase at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930974442/qid=1096222956/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-8422421-0966239?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 PARAKEET editors@parakeetmag.org 115 Roosevelt Avenue Syracuse, New York 13210 315-472-9710 blog: http://mildredsumbrella.blogspot.com "To makes u."--Gertrude Stein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:09:14 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this pome's 'bout nothin' 0....Jerry Stein Feld endless loopy mind.... 2:00...punching the time clock..drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:30:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Palma Subject: FWD - Charles Bernstein's "Self-Help" In-Reply-To: <20041111054814.ZFH22257.out007.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This was posted to one of the email lists I'm on -- a non-academic/poetry list / actually a bunch of house DJs -- and I was pleasantly surprised to see it. I enjoyed it so much and thought I would FWD it here. Writing from Los Angeles. Cheers, Christine FWD >>>> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:45:12 -0800 (PST) From: Zak I heard this poem at a reading the Friday before the election. It well summed my feelings on that day. It's by Charles Bernstein Self-Help Home team suffers string of losses. - Time to change loyalties. Quadruple bypass. - Hold the bacon on that next cheeseburger. Poems tanking. - After stormiest days, sun comes out from behind clouds, or used to. Marriage on rocks. - Nothing like Coke. Election going the wrong direction. - Kick off slippers, take deep breath, be here now. Boss says your performance needs boost. - A long hot bath smoothes wrinkles. War toll tops 10,000. - Get your mind off it, switch to reality TV. Lake Tang Woo Chin Chicken with Lobster and Sweet Clam Sauce still not served and everyone else got their orders twenty minutes back. - Savor the water, feast on the company. Subway floods and late for audition. - Start being the author of your own performance. Take a walk. Slip on ice, break arm. - In moments like this, the preciousness of life reveals itself. Wages down in non-union shop. - You.re a sales associate, not a worker; so proud to be part of the company. Miss the train? - Great chance to explore the station! Suicide bombers wreck neighborhood. - Time to pitch in! Nothing doing. - Take a break! Partner in life finds another partner. - Now you can begin the journey of life anew. Bald? - Finally, you can touch the sky with the top of your head. Short-term recall shot. - Old memories are sweetest. Hard drive crashes and novel not backed up. - Nothing like a fresh start. Severe stomach cramps all morning. - Boy are these back issues of Field and Stream engrossing. Hurricane crushes house. - You never seemed so resilient. Brother-in-law completes second year in coma. - He seems so much more relaxed than he used to. $75 ticket for Sunday meter violation on an empty street in residential neighborhood. - The city needs the money to make us safe and educate our kids. Missed last episode of favorite murder mystery because you misprogrammed VCR. . Write your own ending! Blue cashmere pullover has three big moth holes. - What a great looking shirt! Son joins skinhead brigade of Jews for Jesus. - At least he.s following his bliss. Your new play receives scathing reviews and closes after a single night. - What a glorious performance! Pungent stench of homeless man on subway, asking for food. - Such kindness in his eyes, as I turn toward home. Retirement savings lost on Enron and WorldCom. - They almost rhyme. Oil spill kills seals. - The workings of the Lord are inscrutable. Global warming swamps land masses. - Learn to accept change. Bike going fast in wrong direction knocks you over. - A few weeks off your feet, just what the doctor ordered. AIDS ravaging Africa. - Wasn.t Jeffrey Wright fabulous in Angels in America? Muffler shot. - There.s this great pizza place next to the shop. Income gap becomes crater. - Good motivation to get rich. Abu Ghraib prisoners tortured. - Let.s face it, shit happens. Oscar wins Emmy. - Award shows are da bomb. FBI checking your library check-outs. - I also recommend books on Amazon. Gay marriages annulled. - Who needs the state to sanctify our love? President.s lies kill GIs. - He.s so decisive about his core values. Self-help. - Other drowns. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:04:05 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dont agree - Pond very fragmentaion was a methodology - a valid one -sure his"a paradiso" wasnt attained but many many other poets would say the same (depending on teir mood at the time of considering their work) - "failed" maybe on his own terms but Ginsberg was right - overall Pounds poetry and his work was a success...see my short post on this...we know many poets/artist who searched for the paradiso but of course it was this very search/struggle that matters - not even thepolitics of the poet. The art is(almost all). See also my short post on this. If Pound failed then we are all doomed to "failure". How cana poet "fail"? Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hadbawnik" To: Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 5:58 AM Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > with all due respect, this is a valid question, > especially for the emotionally shattered, > disturbed e.p. who wrote the late cantos. even the > robust, younger pound had conceded that his > society and culture had stopped listening to him > (see hugh selwyn mauberly, and the literary > essays, etc.) indeed half the cantos are taken up > with kvetching about the poet's high place among > princes of antiquity (Malatesta, the Albigensians, > Confucius) and how things ain't what they used to > be. then pound signed on with mussolini, thinking > he would restore that place, and was figuratively > and literally broken by the result. > > I think it's fair to say that pound really thought > he had failed in his project > to make a paradiso > > > > terrestre > > which is what the cantos are about. he said as > much to allen ginsberg when he visited him in > italy not long before he died. of course allen > tried to convince him he was wrong about that and > for many poets he succeeded brilliantly. but for > others the cantos are no doubt a turgid, > fragmented mess. > > DH > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of > Anastasios Kozaitis > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 2:04 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > > You must be saying that facetiously, Chris. > > I'm am MORE than certain that what Ez considered > his particular kind of poetry all there was or is > in terms of poetry for that matter... > > > On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:42:53 -0800, Chris > Stroffolino wrote: > > "That I lost my world > > fighting the center" > > > > could equally be apt? > > > > Mary--do you think Pound is saying poetry is > futile in that > > or rather that his particular kind of > poetry is? > > > > ---------- > > >From: Mary Jo Malo > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > > >Date: Tue, Nov 9, 2004, 6:40 AM > > > > > > > > That I lost my center > > > fighting the > world The dreams clash > > > and are > shattered > > > > > > and that I tried to make a paradiso > > > > terrestre > > > > > > > http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/pound/n > otes.htm > > > > > > i'll have none > > > of your -ologies > > > no advice > > > show me what works > > > what has been proven > > > on the side of the road > > > on the office floor > > > give me the dice > > > i'm loading them my way > > > > > > mary jo > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:19:31 US/CENTRAL Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: CNN covers 9/11 truth; vote in CNN poll now! Comments: To: dreamtime@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca Begin forwarded message: From: KJ Barrett Date: November 11, 2004 5:51:51 AM EET Subject: CNN covers 9/11 truth; vote in CNN poll now! Action alert! You can vote in the CNN poll, "Is there a US government coverup surrounding 9/11?" So far 80% say yes, 20% say no. Go to: http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/ Forwarded from septembereleventh.org Dear 9/11 truth activists and concerned citizens, CNN earlier tonight aired an hour segment on the Jimmy Walter 9/11 Truth ads in New York, for which they also interviewed Kyle Hence of 9/11 CitizensWatch and board member of 911Truth.org. A message from Kyle is below. From Kyle Hence: ALERT: CitizensWatch Co-founder Interviewed for AndersonCooper 360 I was interviewed by Deborah Feyerick of CNN today. We did about a 20 minute interview. My guess is that they will take the weakest of sound bites and continue relegating the call for an investigation to the "wacky", "irresponsible" fringes of public discourse. This approach is a grave disservice to the American people and especially to the victims and their families. 70% of the Family Steering Committee's own questions remain unaddressed, having been ignored by the 9/11 Commission. This is a travesty especially given the rush to reform the intelligence agencies with so many loose ends and such a dark cloud hanging over the government, and the well documented case for cover-up. The feature on the call to investigate, etc and perhaps a bit of the interview with me will be aired tonight sometime between 7PM and 8PM. If you elect to contact Anderson Cooper... http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?10 ..in response to his story on the call to re-open the investigation I'd like to encourage folks to refer to our Spitzer Complaint at http://www.justicefor911.org and specifically to bring attention to the fact there is a pending investigation of the collapse of building #7 (the first by FEMA having virtually dismissed fire as the cause of the collapse), the strong body of evidence compiled by Michael Ruppert in Crossing the Rubicon that suggests complicity (ie. facilitation) through the 'coincidental' occurrence of multiple war games under way the morning of September 11th that led to a frozen air defense and the major discrepencies between Richard Clarke's account of the actions of Myers and Rumsfeld and the findings of the Commission and their own public statements. These are three issues amongst many in a complex body of investigative leads. In this short email I can't possibly do them all justice but I wanted to be sure your voice is heard at a time when someone at CNN and viewers of CNN might be listening. Thanks for your support. Be part of a rising tide of interest and passion for finally getting to the bottom of 9/11. Please forward this along to your lists and reach out however you are inspired. Kyle F. Hence 9/11 CitizensWatch -- http://www.911citizenswatch.org Steering Committee member of Citizens' Complaint and Petition to Attorney General of the State of New York for an Independent Grand Jury Investigation. [see http://www.justicefor911.org] --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Midwest Tel Net Web Based Mail. http://www.mwt.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 03:42:52 US/CENTRAL Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Bushbot flusterated the ginormous intelligent design begs the question Comments: To: neologisms@yahoogroups.com WatchList for New Trends in Global English http://www.languagemonitor.com/wst_page20.html This page welcomes nominations for our LingoWatch from the Global Language Monitor's worldwide network of LanguagePolice. Latest Nominations: We are also pleased to add these individuals to our global network of language observers. Fungible (from MonHynesPayack in Cambridge, Mass.) Squicked (from Arlen in St. Augustus, Wisconsin) Feckless (from Joan K. Shaw in Lewiston, Utah) Lacrent (from Jim Glennon in Washington, DC) Schlomo (from Popo in Chicago) Wazzed (from Mateulla in Omaha) Swank (from Melissa Peavler in Lousiville) Fantabulous (from Melissa Peavler in Lousiville) Flusterated (from BSJS100 in Rockport, Texas) Ginormous (from SaraMillaci in Virginia Beach) Badonkalonk (from Drewbobchase1in Minneapolis) Bushbot (from James Renfrew in Tarzana, California) Activist judges or judiciary (from Rodehead in Greenbay,Wisconsin) Zingy (from Josh_0073 in Richmond, Kentucky) Yeha (from Josh_0073 in Berea, Kentucky) Post turtle (from Mr. Vine in Bangor, Maine) Schmendrick (from Mr. Vine in Bangor, Maine) Begs the question (from Adelaide in Rochester, New York) Bling (from Liquiddrainbeau in Roselle, New Jersey) All new! (from Nancy Bleach in Omaha, Nebraska) Intelligent Design (from Mr. Vine in Bangor, Maine) It vs. it's (from Jpydjr) 'Guys' -- when referring to females (from Amanda Hughes in Vestavia Hills, Alabama) --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Midwest Tel Net Web Based Mail. http://www.mwt.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:32:52 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl-Erik Tallmo Subject: the current trend Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" the current trend: http://www.nisus.se/audio/current_trend.ram /Karl-Erik Tallmo ________________________________________________________________ KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ ________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:26:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Ravi Shankar reads at Grace Church, Tuesday, November 16th, 7:30 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poet, Ravi Shankar reads at Grace Church > 1041 Wisconsin Ave., NW=20 > (between M and K street)=20 > Washington, DC 20007=20 > Tuesday, November 16th, 7:30 pm=20 > FREE and OPEN to the PUBLIC=20 >=20 > Ravi Shankar is poet-in-residence at Central Connecticut State = University and the founding editor of the online journal of the arts, = . His first book Instrumentality, was = published by Word Press in May 2004. His work has previously appeared or = is forthcoming in such places as The Paris Review, Poets &Writers, Time = Out New York, Gulf Coast, The Massachusetts Review, Descant, LIT, Crowd, = The Cortland Review, Catamaran, The Indiana Review, Western Humanities = Review, The Iowa Review, Smartish Pace, and the AWP Writer> '> s = Chronicle, among other publications. He has read at such venues as The = National Arts Club, Columbia University, KGB, and the Cornelia Street = Caf=E9, has held residencies from the MacDowell Colony, Ragdale, and the = Atlantic Center for the Arts, has served on panels at UCLA, Poet> '> s = House, South-by-Southwest Interactive/Film Festival, and the AWP = Conference in Baltimore, been a commentator for NPR and Wesleyan radio, = reviews poetry for the Contemporary Poetry Review and is currently = editing an anthology of South Asian, East Asian, and Middle Eastern = poetry. You can read an interview with him at: = . He plans to take up = tabla.=20 >=20 > ADVANCE PRAISE FOR INSTRUMENTALITY=20 >=20 > Instrumentality plays expectations and delivers uncanny reformulations = that seem "predestined, in retrospect." Ravi Shankar> '> s poems are = filled with the pleasure of subjects dissolving into ideas, ideas = folding into sounds, and sounds echoing familiar but elusive = translocations.=20 > -Charles Bernstein=20 >=20 > Quirky, quizzical, inquisitive, Ravi Shankar in Instrumentality goes = in quest of what the oddness of language and imagination can reveal: > = "> a hush of atoms holding a planet together.> "> By turns, lyrical and = meditative, these poems are guided by a strong intelligence toward = resolutions that are both surprising and apt.=20 > -Gregory Orr >=20 > A New Confessions of Zeno, this time in verse. Topics most of us brood = over in private are here brought out into daylight by an analyst clad in = bullet-proof unembarrassment. Ravi Shankar is a comic tragedian of = philosophic collisions that occur at the intersection of memory, desire, = perception, mutability, and language. Wild swoops made on the rheostat = of diction and intricate consonantal echolocation enable the invention = of this poet> '> s analogue for the metamorphic nature of what is past, = or passing, or to come. > -Alfred Corn=20 >=20 > Ravi Shankar's poems are immortal in the flesh, finding in the life of = the mind--its interpretations, its "instrumentality"--the surpassing, = transient lyrical moment; and in the life of the world's body the = permanent, unflinching presence of thought, unconfined by time or space. = They are the verbal artifacts of a singular, many-sided, and = distinguished consciousness. > -Vijay Seshadri=20 >=20 > This is a very special first book. Ravi Shankar's poems have a fine = tuned sense of form, a rare delight in language. Through wit and = abstraction they reveal a metaphysics of longing, binding us to the = elements of our moving world. > -Meena Alexander >=20 > Here are poems I> '> ve not seen before. A fog lifts and Ravi Shankar = gives the reader a landscape of language filled with sharp, stainless, = geometric forms. There is considerable distance to travel from page to = page. Even in a poem like > "> Home Together> "> Shankar detects a = vacuum in love. From a men> '> s room to a San Francisco sunrise, = Shankar emerges with a pocketful of koans reflecting the wisdom hidden = in the stars.=20 > - E. Ethelbert Miller >=20 > Lovers of poetry will find in Ravi Shankar's INSTRUMENTALITY the lucky = serendipity one hopes for in a new poet: an original voice. The poems = take their origin as does all fine poetry, in a love of language and a = metaphorical vision combined with the imperative of music. Below > the = shimmering surface, however, currents of Indian spirituality and western = philosophy draw the reader deeper into the works - a serious dialectic = playing out in the soul of a sensitive young man pondering life's = mysteries, large and small. The old questions take on a freshness and = interest when seen through the new eyes of a poet of such complexity. = Other times, the work is more playful. Like Wallace Stevens or the = metaphysical poets, his conceits sing with intelligence, wit, and the = intricacies of extended metaphor. Coming away from the work, one thinks = of the jewel-encrusted coat of a raja or a wizard - a pun comes to mind: = Ravishing. In a long poem celebrating the launching of the space shuttle = Discovery, th poet says, "I feel as though a part of us has lifted off." = And so it is for the reader of this fine collection of poems.=20 > -Richard Harteis=20 >=20 > In the stunning title poem of Instrumentality, Shankar writes of > "> = action> '> s unstuttering arc which is eloquence and muteness at once.> = "> That idea expresses what I find in this collection, for here poems = becomes performatives that enacts their totality in the tension between = graceful expression and silence. Shankar is a deeply philosophical poet = who explores the major questions while attuned to the flux that is the = very stuff of existence, and does so while moving from place to place> = -> Illinois, Florida, Mumbai, Monteverde, and Hell> '> s Kitchen> -> a = Spiderman of the imagination. And, in terms of tone, there> '> s no = cynicism or irony here, rather the pleasures of varied vocabularies and = deft juxtapositions ajumble on multiple levels. One senses the sheen of = a new poetry. >=20 > -Gray Jacobik > author of Brave Disguises >=20 >=20 >=20 > *************** > Ravi Shankar=20 > Poet-in-Residence > Assistant Professor > CCSU - English Dept. > 860-832-2766 > shankarr@ccsu.edu >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:16:52 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rodrigo Toscano Subject: Mark Nowak + Jeff Dersken Reading At Bowery Poetry Club MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Saturday, November 13 2004 2:00pm, Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's=20 F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505=20 Shut Up Shut Down: Mark Nowak + Jeff Derksen $5=20 Born in New Westminster, BC, Jeff Derksen is a poet, cultural critic, and editor. He has long been associated with the Kootenay School of Writing and is a former editor of Writing magazine. He currently teaches in the Department of English at Simon Franser University in Burnaby, BC. Derksen= =E2=80=99s=20 critical writings on=20 globalization and culture, poetry, architecture, and art have been published= =20 in North America and=20 Europe. His work has also been anthologized in East of Main and Verse:=20 Postmodern Poetry and=20 Language Writing. His 1994 collection Dwell is an accomplished and powerful=20 follow-up to his=20 first book, Down Time (1990) which won the 1991 Dorothy Livesay Poetry Award= =20 at the BC Book=20 Prizes. A selection from Dwell=E2=80=94=E2=80=9CHost Nation, Host Society= =E2=80=9D=E2=80=94was nominated=20 for inclusion in The=20 Gertrude Stein Anthology of Innovative North American Poetry: 1993 (San=20 Francisco). His most=20 recent book is Transnational Muscle Cars (Talonbooks, 2003). For more=20 information on Jeff=20 Derksen, please visit his web site at www.lot.at/mynewidea_com. Mark Nowak is author of Revenants, Shut Up Shut Down (afterword by Amiri Baraka, a James Laughlin Award finalist), and co-editor (with Diane Glancy) of Visit Teepee Town: Native Writings after the Detours, all from Coffee House Press. He is the editor of the journal Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics www.xcp.bfn.org and founder of the Union of Radical Workers and Writers www.urww.org. His verse play =E2=80=9CCapitalization=E2=80=9D (about= Reagan=E2=80=99s firing=20 of striking PATCO workers) won development grant from the Stage Left Theatre= =20 in Chicago, where it premiered in 2004; another verse play about a Teamster organizer, =E2=80=9CFrancine Michalek Drives Bread,= =E2=80=9D premiered at UAW Local 879 in St. Paul, Minnesota, in March 2003. Nowak=E2= =80=99s essay on gothic-industrial music and deindustrialization in America=E2=80= =99s rust belt is forthcoming in Goth: Undead Subculture (Duke University Press). www.citypages.com/databank/25/1241/article12460.asp www.chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/nowak.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:28:09 -0500 Reply-To: lawrence.upton@britishlibrary.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "lawrence.upton@britishlibrary.net" Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA, poneme@lists.grouse.net.au, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, UK POETRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT Due to avoidable circumstances, the 4th Bob Cobbing Celebration Reading by= Maggie O'Sullivan and Jennifer Cobbing scheduled for 6th December 2004 HAS= BEEN CANCELLED=2E The SVP readings at CPT for 17 Jan and 28 Feb remain on schedule The cancellation may adversely affect the possibility of continued use of CPT for poetry - please support the January events I apologise to everyone who was looking forward to this event=2E Yes, it i= s the second cancellation of this event=2E The first was absolutely unavoidable=2E The second=85 Inevitably, I shall be asked why; and it gets awkward=2E But I do not want= to be thought to be at fault=2E (A summary of the reasons for the cancellation is given below=2E It is as accurate as possible=2E Names are covered by labels=2E) THE REASON 22nd June 2004 SVP announced the new date (6th December) for 4th Bob Cobbing Celebration = - a set of performances by Maggie O'Sullivan and Jennifer Pike Cobbing, to replace the June date which had been cancelled due to the fatal illness of= Maggie O'Sullivan's father July 2004 Another organiser undertakes to organise a reading by a Famous Poet on 6th= December 2004=2E He does not tell SVP=2E [This info learned 8 November 04]= August - October Bob Cobbing's 4th Celebration repeatedly announced at readings and on list= s Tues 7th November SVP confirms broad travel / hotel arrangements with Maggie O'Sullivan Wednesday 8th November SVP confirms details with Jennifer Cobbing Wednesday 8th November, evening The Other Organiser writes to SVP of "an unfortunate clash that has arisen= , and I wanted to do this before advertising anything further=2E [=85] I should have made you aware of the clash but being very busy with too muc= h else, unfortunately I didn't=2E I also accept that letting you know about = it sooner than this may have been a good idea, but having said that, I'm not sure it would have actually changed anything - the 6th is the only date I can do anything on, and having already re-arranged the Cobbing tribute, my= thinking has been that you wouldn't have wanted to change it again=2E" SVP writes back Protests at not being told and that the Other Organiser is prepared to "go= ahead regardless, because I know that people will go to what you are organising" Says apart from anything else a large gate is needed to cover costs and asks Can you cover that please? Notes also "damage that will be done to Chris Goode's argument for CPT continuing as a poetry venue" CPT informed of problem Other organiser responds he will pay some money, quite a bit, towards costs if SVP goes ahead but also suggests movement to another day - his cannot be moved He has, without authority, already rung the hotel he imagines is involved and the rail company to negotiate cancellation=2E Offers money for this option " in recognition of that inconvenience=2E" but less than for the ot= her + a public apology on this option only NB He has already tried to put this proposal directly to Maggie, leaving a= message for *her to ring *him The message does not mention Jennifer SVP replies SVP reading isn't moveable & suggests *he cancels SVP says this is an important reading in itself, a reading by one of the finest poets around and a performance 40 years on of Cobbing's ABC in Soun= d=2E "It is also part of the planned series of Cobbing celebrations, unavoidabl= y cancelled once; and we all owe Bob; and have, I believe, an imperative upo= n us to remember him for what he did for us=2E It is important too to Jennif= er who has suffered one cancellation already and has invested a lot emotionally in this: to her, of course, this is far more than another reading=2E Finally, it is important as *the way of showing the new CPT director the viability of poetry at CPT", given the likely undivided audience "if you go ahead with your reading, it would be prudent to cancel, and tha= t is what we would do=2E" The other organiser responds by ringing Maggie not SVP and suggesting that SVP's reading is held on the= same night but late, AFTER his; the inverse is not on offer The proposal is declined The other organiser responds by writing to SVP of "your joint decision to cancel the SVP reading=2E" (n= o mention of Jennifer) The promised money is to be paid in the future The promised public apology will not be given: "I am intending to wait for= you to make an announcement regarding the cancellation of the SVP event before I then announce the Famous Poet reading=2E Say if you want to do it= differently=2E" SVP responds Corrects untruth about cancellation + "it would be quite inappropriate for me to make the announcement now as there are other people involved to whom I am going to speak when a good opportunity presents itself - and before announcing anything" suggest he cancels Other organiser does not respond Jennifer Cobbing is informed 2/3 days later Other organiser rings Maggie and says he has now found he may not need 6th= December after all=2E Nothing however is certain=2E He asks Maggie to ring= SVP and then phone him back SVP replies if even now he doesn't know what he is doing and still insists on his priority, there can be no more delay and the cancellation stands other organiser rings SVPfor the first time and gets the voicemail; then writes insisting it isn't his fault CPT is informed the cancellation is definite -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:42:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Majzels Subject: Re: Poetry is Rebellion In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks, Joe, for your patience. On 10-Nov-04, at 11:57 AM, Joe Amato wrote: > robert, what you describe would fall under the category of people who > "don't want to listen"... and the motives for not wanting to listen > are in all likelihood variously self-interested, fearful, stubborn, > ignorant, etc, as you suggest... Fearful and stubborn, I think, fall under self-interest. I mean US people stubbornly don't care how they harm others if they can maintain or improve their standard of living. That's the American way. Ignorance is not a motive. Anyway, I precisely don't believe ignorance explains why people voted for Bush. They knew very well what he intends to do. Probably the Democrats will end up deciding (as usual) they can win people's votes by playing more successfully to their fears and self-interest, rather than challenging them on the fundamental issues, the wrongness of the war in Iraq, for example, or the need to make real sacrifices to stop global warming, etc. If so, they may very well get elected again down the line. But then they will simply continue the same fundamental policies as the Republicans, minus some of the rhetoric. Which won't help the rest of the world. > but as i'm trying to suggest, whether or not that election effort > succeeds---and this will turn in part on what the next four years > bring---leftist politics in the u.s. will likely be hampered by a > failure not only of rhetoric, but of conceptualization/belief... > perhaps this constitutes a failure of the social imagination (if you > will)... for long-term change and not simply damage control, i would > think the emergence of left-wing think tanks (etc.) are essential to > altering the social landscape---over time... Well, I don't know about tanks, but some hard thinking would be good, yes. > also, i wouldn't be so hasty to dismiss the antiwar movement of the > 60s... surely that movement took its lead from body counts... so, > people die in a war, and other people who might die (or might have > died) protest people dying... it's an odd sort of logic that claims > that said protest movement did not really end the war---that people > dying ended the war... i mean, what if people died and nobody > protested?... or are you suggesting that there was a silent protest > of sorts that ended the war? (and to claim thus would require that we > get into details that this list and my fingers probably can't support > at the moment)... I guess I meant that here again, the US population as a whole was not moved by the critique of the justice or lack of justice of the war. They shifted against it because it became too costly in money and American lives, and they were losing. I mean they were concerned about US bodies, not Vietanmese. Anyway, in the end, the Viet Cong won that war, not the US left, who were unwilling or slow to support the Viet Cong directly or to sabotage their own country's war effort, and generally too meek in their opposition, all the while reasoning the same way the Democrats are now, that they had to find a way to convince the majority without challenging their self-interested willingness to murder others. > that the right has been right along decrying the > protest movements of the sixties, and that some on the right claim > that the war would have been WON w/o same, makes me doubly suspicious > of what you're saying... I think the right argues that the US could have won the war if they had gone all out: more money, more bombs, more firepower. But Kerry also promised to send in necessary force. That lesson has already been applied in Gulf War, and now in Iraq. In Fallujah, for example, they have bombed the city and its inhabitants into dust before going in with American bodies. > ways)... so i have mixed feelings about this, in that, on the one > hand, this nation has often acted as a nation in utterly barbaric > ways... yet, on the other, i wouldn't live anyplace else I see what you mean. But, on the other hand, isn't this exactly what Bin Laden is saying about Americans? That the best strategy to get them to lay off is to take the danger and unpleasantness of living elsewhere, in large part caused by the US back to them. How about a judo-like movement. Why not call on the US government to surrender to Bin Laden. Let him have the headaches of administering victory. All the best, Robert ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:42:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Saskatoon police near 'mutiny' over Stonechild report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Saskatoon police near 'mutiny' over Stonechild report Security Apparatus SASKATOON - Faced with what some fear could become a mutiny in the ranks, the police chief in Saskatoon has once again put off a decision on firing two officers involved in the death of Neil Stonechild. The officers had 17-year-old Stonechild in their custody on the night he disappeared in Nov. 1990, an inquiry concluded last month. His frozen body was found days later on the outskirts of Saskatoon. Nov 10 2004; CBC Saskatoon police near 'mutiny' over Stonechild report SASKATOON - Faced with what some fear could become a mutiny in the ranks, the police chief in Saskatoon has once again put off a decision on firing two officers involved in the death of Neil Stonechild. Russell Sabo was to make an announcement on Wednesday about the fates of constables Bradley Senger and Lawrence Hartwig. The announcement has now been postponed indefinitely. The officers had 17-year-old Stonechild in their custody on the night he disappeared in Nov. 1990, an inquiry concluded last month. His frozen body was found days later on the outskirts of Saskatoon. Senger and Hartwig have been suspended with pay since Justice David Wright's final report from the inquiry was released. The report was a scathing indictment of the Saskatoon police force's original investigation into the death. But rank and file police officers in the city reject any wrongdoing by Senger or Hartwig, or by other police officers involved in the investigation. Earlier this month, 200 officers voted to support the suspended constables. They demonstrated outside police headquarters while Sabo met with the officers and their lawyers. Police union president Stan Goertzen said the officers have not been convicted of anything in a court of law, yet they are being portrayed as guilty, and threatened with the loss of their jobs. Union leaders have made veiled threats of some sorts of "action" if the two officers are fired. "In essence, the police chief has a mutiny on his hands," said Colin Boyd, an ethics professor at the University of Saskatchewan. "They're violating their oath of loyalty," said Boyd. "And their oath of loyalty means that they'll subordinate their personal interests for the common good." Saskatchewan Justice Minister Frank Quennell said Saskatoon police need to act quickly, but he rejects calls to disband the police force. "I think some of the discussion made by some commentators about substituting a different police force is premature," said Quennell. http://sask.cbc.ca/regionalnews/caches/sabo_stonechild041110.html ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:45:35 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: No More Latttes.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the supposed bad vote count in Cayuga district in Ohio.. was the result of lumping two distinct districts together in alternate yrs... ..&...too much lattes...to vous... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:52:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: career vs lifestyle Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 How does one define a career versus a lifestyle as a writer as a visual artist &c How does one define institution and anti-institution institution &c How does one define an artist a writer &c working within the academy within a cultural framework How does one get away from=20 poetry as propetry to be sold to be bought towards poetry as lifestyle to be traded ? --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:12:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Analyzing efficacy of direct, rational approach MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The following "Letter To The Red States" comes from my local Democracy for America forum. It is written by "one of us," obviously. It is not intended for "us,"=20 of course, as we already agree with the sentiments. I want to ask a few questions about the letter's=20 potential efficacy and try to get at any ways to improve that efficacy or conclusions=20 suggesting that entirely other tacts and procedures must be invented in order to "bring the Red State Repubs" up to=20 snuff or in line with this Blue State position,=20 as it were. Again, "we" already sympathize with this woman's=20 sentiments and her political persuasion(s). The letter uses many rhetorical questions that=20 directly question the Red State Repubs'=20 hypocrisy. Other than that, the letter does not much SHOUT, RiDIcuLe, PATronize, Satirize, if at all, and is neither, to our=20 sensibilities, loud nor offensive. Still, can it get inside their heads and change their minds? =20 Would they read it, take any of it to heart,=20 be able to access it (or letters/ideas similar) in any kind of mass media way? Obviously, why would they reject it, if they would? Then, if we cannot conclude other than=20 that they WOULD REJECT IT, what=20 else might work? Must we, for example, use the same=20 kinds of "manipulation" that have inclined them to reject such obviously rational, honest, thoughtful sentiments? Must we, say, "surround them with" media "information" and "sources" that make them believe, perhaps incrementally, their own "authorities" are already adopting this kind or position and moving back to what all of us already agree is sanity? Oh, I'm talking about, say, "fake web sites" that show "large=20 groups of other Christians" moving=20 away from Bush/Cheney Co. I've run out of steam for the moment=20 and I may not have gotten to all of the questions regarding this good=20 letter -- ooops, okay, I know something else I want to ask to start determining if it, and its approach, can be efficacious: This letter finds very ready "mirrors" in=20 all of "us." If the Red State Repubs have not that mirror within them, or a mirror that distorts what we project, how do=20 help them adopt our mirror, or how do we work effectively with the distorting mirror=20 they may not be able to replace. (Also, precisely what ARE we projecting, if we are meeting with mirrors that=20 so stubbornly reject us -- perhaps=20 we are creating those very mirrors in the first place...) I'm sure that there are many more questions that can be asked, perhaps some that blow this frame out of the water and lead to=20 more generative questions. Anyone?=20 P.S. Anyone who has ever worked with, say, developmentally disabled children,=20 probably knows that their behavior=20 problems cannot so easily be changed by direct, rational appeals or directives, nor by "negativity" towards their "acting out." The Red States Repubs present us with similar behavioral dysfunction... P.S. All our work deconstructing "what's=20 wrong with their thinking," including the fabulous work that Lakoff and others=20 have done over the years, does NOT=20 necessarily lead to solutions for adapting to the problem and finding solutions that will reduce its awful effects. *...written by a woman in New York. I think it echoes what most in New=20 York think and feel about the state of our country. I think it echoes=20 what 55 million Americans think. After the letter was published, the woman started receiving death = threats. A Letter To The Red States Sorry, I try not to deluge people with my ramblings. But I had to write=20 this and, having written it, had to send it. Even though I don't know=20 anyone I can send it to (without alienating my Republican in-laws, who=20 are the only "middle country" people I know), I am writing this letter=20 to the people in the red states in the middle of the country -- the=20 people who voted for George W. Bush. I am writing this letter because I=20 don't think we know each other. So I'll make an introduction. I am a New Yorker who voted for John=20 Kerry. I used to live in California, and if I still lived there, I would = vote for Kerry. I used to live in Washington, DC, and if I still lived=20 there, I would vote for Kerry. Kerry won in all three of those regions. Maybe you want to know more about me. Or maybe not; maybe you think=20 you know me already. You think I am some anti-American anarchist=20 because I dislike George W. Bush. You think that I am immoral and=20 anti-family, because I support women's reproductive freedom and gay=20 rights. You think that I am dangerous, and even evil, because I do not=20 abide by your religious beliefs. Maybe you are content to think that, to = write me off as a "liberal" -- the dreaded "L" word -- and rejoice that=20 your candidate has triumphed over evil, immoral, anti-American,=20 anti-family people like me. But maybe you are still curious. So here=20 goes: this is who I am. I am a New Yorker. I was here, in my apartment downtown, on September=20 11th. I watched the Towers burn from the roof of my building. I went=20 inside so that I couldn't see them when they fell. I had friends who were inside. I have a friend who still has nightmares=20 about watching people jump and fall from the Towers. He will never be=20 the same. How many people like him do you know? People that can't sit in = a restaurant without plotting an escape route, in case it blows up? I am a worker. I work across the street from the Citigroup Center, which = the government told us is a target of terrorism. Later, we found out=20 they were relaying very old information, but it was already too late.=20 They had given me bad dreams again. The subway stop near my office was=20 crowded with bomb-sniffing dogs, policemen in heavy protective gear,=20 soldiers. Now, every time I enter or exit my office, all of my=20 possessions are X-rayed to make sure I don't have have any weapons. How=20 often are you stopped by a soldier with a bomb-sniffing dog outside your = office? I am a neighbor. I have a neighbor who is a 9/11 widow. She has two=20 children. My husband does odd jobs for her now, like building=20 bookshelves. Things her husband should do. He uses her husband's tools,=20 and the two little girls tell him, "Those are our daddy's tools." How=20 many 9/11 widows and orphans do you know? How often do you fill in for=20 their dead loved ones? I am a taxpayer. I worked my butt off to get where I did, and so did my=20 parents. My parents saved and borrowed and sent me to college. I worked=20 my way through graduate school. I won a full tuition scholarship to law=20 school. All for the privilege of working 2,600 hours last year. That=20 works out to a 50 hour week, every week, without any vacation days at=20 all. I get to work by 9 am and rarely leave before 9 pm. I eat dinner at = my office much more often than I eat dinner at home. My husband and I=20 paid over $70,000 in federal income tax last year. At some point in the=20 future, we will have to pay much more -- once this country faces its=20 deficit and the impossible burden of Social Security. In fact, the=20 areas of the country that supported Kerry -- New York, California,=20 Illinois, Massachusetts -- they are the financial centers of the=20 nation. They are the tax base of this country. How much did you pay,=20 Kansas? How much did you contribute to this government you support,=20 Alabama? How much of this war in Iraq did you pay for? I am a liberal. The funny part is, liberals have this reputation for=20 living in Never-Neverland, being idealists, not being sensible. But let=20 me tell you how I see the world: I see America as one nation in a world=20 of nations. Therefore, I think we should try to get along with other=20 nations. I see that gay people exist. Therefore, I think they should be=20 allowed to exist, and be treated the same as other people. I see ways=20 in which women are not allowed to control their own bodies. Therefore,=20 I think we should give women more control over their bodies. I see that=20 people have awful diseases. Therefore, I think we should enable=20 scientists to try to cure them. I see that we have a Constitution.=20 Therefore, I think it should be upheld. I see that there were no weapons = of mass destruction in Iraq. Therefore, I think that Iraq was not an=20 imminent danger to me. It seems so pragmatic to me. How do you see the world? Do you really think voting against gay=20 marriage will keep people from being gay? Would you really prefer that=20 people continue to die from Parkinson's disease? Do you really not=20 care about the Constitutional rights of political detainees? Would you=20 really have supported the war if you knew the truth, or would you have=20 wanted to spend more of our money on health care, job training,=20 terrorism preparedness? I am an American. I have an American flag flying outside my home. I love = my home more than anything. I love that I grew up right outside New York = City. I first went to the Statue of Liberty with my 5th grade class,=20 and my mom and dad took me to the Empire State Building when I was 8. I=20 love taking the subway to Yankee Stadium. I loved living in Washington DC and going on dates to the Lincoln=20 Memorial. It is because I love this country so much that I argue with my = political opponents as much I do. I am not safe. I never feel safe. My=20 in-laws live in a small town in Ohio, and that town has received more=20 federal funding, per capita, for terrorism preparedness than New York=20 City has. I take subways and buses every day. I work in a skyscraper=20 across the street from a "target." I have emergency supplies and a spare = pair of sneakers in my desk, in case something happens while I'm at=20 work. Do you? How many times a month do you worry that your subway is=20 going to blow up? When you hear sirens on the street, do you run to the=20 window to make sure everything is okay? When you hear an airplane, do=20 you flinch? Do you dread beautiful, blue-skied September days? I don't=20 know a single New Yorker who doesn't spend the month of September on=20 tip-toes, superstitiously praying for rain so we don't have to relive=20 that beautiful, blue-skied day. I am lonely. I feel that we, as a nation, have alienated all our friends = and further provoked our enemies. I feel unprotected. Most of all I=20 feel alienated from my fellow citizens, because I don't understand=20 what you are thinking. You voted for a man who started a war in Iraq for = no reason, against the wishes of the entire world. You voted for a man=20 whose lack of foresight and inability to plan has led to massive=20 insurgencies in Iraq, where weapons are disappearing into the hands of=20 terrorists. You voted for a man who let Osama Bin Laden escape into the=20 hills of Afghanistan so that he could start that war in Iraq. You voted for a man who doesn't want to let people love who they want=20 to love; doesn't want to let doctors cure their patients; doesn't want=20 to let women rule their destinies. I don't understand why you voted for this man. For me, it is not enough=20 that he is personable; it is not enough that he seems like one of the=20 guys. Why did you vote for him? Why did you elect a man that lied to us=20 in order to convince us to go to war? (Ten years ago you were incensed=20 when our president lied about his sex life; you thought it was an=20 impeachable offense.) Why did you elect a leader who thinks that=20 strength cannot include diplomacy or international cooperation? Why did=20 you elect a man who did nothing except run away and hide on September = 11? Most of all, I am terrified. I mean daily, I am afraid that I will not=20 survive this. I am afraid that I will lose my husband, that I will=20 never have children, that I will never grow old and watch the sunset in=20 a backyard of my own. I am afraid that my career -- which should end=20 with a triumphant and good-natured roast at a retirement party in 2035=20 -- will be cut short by an attack on me and my colleagues, as we sit=20 sending emails and making phone calls one ordinary afternoon. Is your life at stake? Are you terrified? I don't think you are. I don't think you realize what you have done. And if anything happens to me, or the people I love, I blame you. I wanted you to know that. Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:22:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong In-Reply-To: <003a01c4c7c5$051407a0$0a2356d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well Richard if you'll notice I didn't say whether I thought Pound had failed I only noted that he said he'd failed and that for Ginsberg and many other poets he hadn't and for others he had. I personally find the Cantos -- those of them I've read -- to be full of beauty and light high thought and passion -- although many of the middle ones are all but unreadable. however I've had conversations with other poets who find pound completely tiresome. lew welch said he "didn't leave us any poetry." as to the question of failure -- how can any poet NOT fail? DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of richard.tylr Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:04 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong I dont agree - Pond very fragmentaion was a methodology - a valid one -sure his"a paradiso" wasnt attained but many many other poets would say the same (depending on teir mood at the time of considering their work) - "failed" maybe on his own terms but Ginsberg was right - overall Pounds poetry and his work was a success...see my short post on this...we know many poets/artist who searched for the paradiso but of course it was this very search/struggle that matters - not even thepolitics of the poet. The art is(almost all). See also my short post on this. If Pound failed then we are all doomed to "failure". How cana poet "fail"? Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hadbawnik" To: Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 5:58 AM Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > with all due respect, this is a valid question, especially for the > emotionally shattered, disturbed e.p. who wrote the late cantos. even > the robust, younger pound had conceded that his society and culture > had stopped listening to him (see hugh selwyn mauberly, and the > literary essays, etc.) indeed half the cantos are taken up with > kvetching about the poet's high place among princes of antiquity > (Malatesta, the Albigensians, > Confucius) and how things ain't what they used to be. then pound > signed on with mussolini, thinking he would restore that place, and > was figuratively and literally broken by the result. > > I think it's fair to say that pound really thought he had failed in > his project to make a paradiso > > > > terrestre > > which is what the cantos are about. he said as much to allen ginsberg > when he visited him in italy not long before he died. of course allen > tried to convince him he was wrong about that and for many poets he > succeeded brilliantly. but for others the cantos are no doubt a > turgid, fragmented mess. > > DH > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Anastasios Kozaitis > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 2:04 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > > You must be saying that facetiously, Chris. > > I'm am MORE than certain that what Ez considered his particular kind > of poetry all there was or is in terms of poetry for that matter... > > > On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:42:53 -0800, Chris Stroffolino > wrote: > > "That I lost my world > > fighting the center" > > > > could equally be apt? > > > > Mary--do you think Pound is saying poetry is > futile in that > > or rather that his particular kind of > poetry is? > > > > ---------- > > >From: Mary Jo Malo > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > > >Date: Tue, Nov 9, 2004, 6:40 AM > > > > > > > > That I lost my center > > > fighting the > world The dreams clash > > > and are > shattered > > > > > > and that I tried to make a paradiso > > > > terrestre > > > > > > > http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/pound/n > otes.htm > > > > > > i'll have none > > > of your -ologies > > > no advice > > > show me what works > > > what has been proven > > > on the side of the road > > > on the office floor > > > give me the dice > > > i'm loading them my way > > > > > > mary jo > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:49:30 -0500 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Two calls for action ... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FIRST SITE: http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?itemid=18055 The following is from the above website: Investigate Electronic Voting Machines - Contributed by Working Assets Now that November 2 has come and gone, some disturbing reports of problems with electronic voting machines have surfaced. For example: *In Columbus, Ohio, an electronic voting system reported that Bush received 4,258 votes while Kerry received 260 votes in a precinct where records show only 638 voters cast ballots; * In North Carolina, a machine lost more than 4,500 votes due to a mistaken assumption about the memory capacity of a computer; * In Youngstown, Ohio, and South Florida, numerous voters complained that when they tried to cast votes for Kerry, the machines instead recorded their votes for Bush. All in all, more than 30,000 complaints have been gathered from across the country, and the Internet is heating up with rumors and innuendo that the results of the election were somehow tampered with. In the midst of such turmoil, it's crucial that an independent authoritative investigation be undertaken to sort this all out. Fortunately, a handful of representatives are working hard to get to the bottom of the situation and have urged the Government Accountability Office (GAO) to immediately investigate these charges. It's crucial that Congress continues to pressure the GAO so that these problems can be investigated and reported on to the American people to ensure that Americans' faith in the election process is maintained and strengthened. Call to action Urge your representative to join Representatives Conyers, Scott, Nadler, Watt, Wexler and Holt in calling on the Government Accountability Office to immediately undertake an investigation of the efficacy of electronic voting machines. Add your name and address below [*GO TO THE WEBSITE LISTED ABOVE*] and send this e-mail as is, or personalize it using your own words. When you click Send E-mail, your name and address will automatically be inserted at the bottom of this e-mail letter. The subject of your e-mail will be the title of the action. Your e-mail will be sent to: Your U.S. Representative United States House of Representatives Washington, DC 20515 Additional Information: To view the original letter and follow up letter from Reps. Conyers, Nadler, Wexler, Holt, Scott and Watt to the GAO Comptroller Walker requesting an investigation of voting machines and technologies used in the 2004 election, please click here and here. We urge you to modify the e-mail and express your views in your own words. *SECOND SITE: A compiled petition with your individual comment will be presented to your Senators and your Representative in Congress by MoveOn.org. Go to: http://www.moveon.org/investigatethevote/ . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:21:33 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: the futility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Never made the scene, the poetry scene, the jazz scene. But now I'm digging the hip hop scene, enjoying the fusion which includes some jazz and lots of poetry, heavy end and internal rhyming. This is all courtesy of my children. We are a family of writers and artists though none of us makes our living by it. One in particular, a clever and skillful lyricist, is encouraging me to learn about its roots and gets me the underground and more authentic stuff. Rhyme and driving rhythms aren't old school anymore. It's the current relevant music of the street and protest and youth. What's more innovative than that? You even get to learn a whole new language. The allusions require Herculean effort, at least for this self-educated old woman. I admire their energy and conviction about social issues, but I fear that they are a practical generation. Many are now regretting their decisions not to vote. Impatiently, they'll expect results and won't philosophize. I fear a growing onslaught of despair and cynicism down the road, the futility of knowing the impotence of poetry and music. They might actually take Jeffersonian principles seriously, but I'm sure our government is already planning for that contingency. MJ ---------- lost baby, lost lost in empty overtures of over anxious music banging beat up black fire verse stagnant hwyl subservient fool braced with swill the crimson quill defeats the truth and clash and soon the verse becomes the curse and drowns the right inside the night and words the lines with death death cannot die the night at last soft soft soft but o o o so dark lost in questions dismembering lies structured sighs trusted skills in numbered overkills between the curse and the verse the night of pain there is no buzz because something something something is still unknown the ghost of song has not numbered himself in the heckling heresy the broken joking fluke of fear dance a tearful ball and recall death for fun lost unable to detach from fear those dots of light cannot inflame the night but only singe the unaware with self destructive human care hearing of verses rotting and generals marching in lines waiting to play pains music one more time and when the final dirge is played and all the notes devour the scale can you drink the human fear? is music such a magic tea?? lost no styptic symphony to block the bloody tides of human red reality melting minds and shrunken souls can only seek insanity a razor pen to slash the paper wrists to worthless dust and fading ink mumbling the stink of insoluble distress unable to find dispassionate dirt inactive discontent contagious apathy must slay the Christ T.M. Malo 1968 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:49:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Fwd: The Big Love Show line-up Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >The Big Love Show: > >A Benefit for Paul Willis > > > >November 13, 8:00 pm - 12:00 am >Varnish Fine Art > >77 Natoma Street at 2nd Street > >Website: www.varnishfineart.com > >Admission: $5 - $20 > > > >7:30-8pm > >doors open > >daniel DJs > >slide show--six & elisa > > > >8pm > >burlesque-the chainsaw chubbettes > >susie bright > >tina d=E2elia > >kirk read > >chelsea starr > >chainsaw chubettes > > > >9pm > >justin chin > >kelly kegger > >dodie bellamy & kevin killian > >juba kalamka > >patrick califia > > > >10pm > >martin pousson > >simon sheppard > >m. christian & sage vivant > >greg wharton & ian philips > > > >afterwards: > >daniel DJs > > > >### > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > >SAN FRANCISCO, CA--To thank Paul Willis for his constant championing >of queer artists, Michelle Tea, Greg Wharton, and Ian Philips are >hosting The Big Love Show to raise money to help with his medical >bills, and to raise awareness that hate crimes happen every day to >people whose only crime is to exist. > > > >The Big Love Show: > >A Benefit for Paul Willis > > > >November 13, 8:00 pm - 12:00 am >Varnish Fine Art > >77 Natoma Street at 2nd Street > >San Francisco, CA > > > >Website: www.varnishfineart.com > >Event contact: Ian Philips > >Event phone: 415-713-9196 > > > >Admission: $5 - $20 > > >Our friend Paul Willis is a well-known queer writer and editor from >New Orleans. He is also a longtime supporter of queer writers in his >roles as Executive Director of the Tennessee Williams Literary >Festival and founder of the Saints & Sinners Literary Festival, an >alternative literary festival for the LGBTIQ community. This year, >Saints and Sinners raised over $10,000 for the AIDS Task Force of >New Orleans. > > > >This May, after a night out with friends, Paul walked another home. >As he made his way back, he stood on a corner in front of a >convenience store smoking a cigarette. A van pulled up and four >teenagers jumped out and attacked him for being a gay man outside >the French Quarter after dark. > > > >In a matter of minutes, they had beaten him so badly surgeons were >convinced he would lose his right eye. Despite the heroic efforts of >several young women in the convenience store who rushed out to help >Paul and get his attackers=E2 license plate number, they disappeared >with his wallet=F7and have yet to be found. Despite the efforts of a >slowly reforming New Orleans Police Department to treat this as a >hate crime. Despite a reward offered by Anne Rice on local >television. > > > >As for Paul, he has undergone hours of surgeries to restore his eye >and his eyesight. He can now distinguish light from dark, but >doctors are hopeful they can further improve his vision. The >surgeries and medical bills continue. > > > >To thank Paul and his partner, author Greg Herren, for their >constant championing of queer artists, Michelle Tea, Greg Wharton, >and Ian Philips are hosting The Big Love Show to raise money to help >with his medical bills, and to raise awareness that hate crimes >happen every day to people whose only crime is to exist. > > > >Emcees: Michelle Tea and Ian Philips > > > >DJing by Daniel > >A slide show by Sux and Elissa > > > >Performers scheduled to appear: Dodie Bellamy, Susie Bright, Patrick >Califia, The Chainsaw Chubettes, Justin Chin, M. Christian, Tina >D=E2Elia, Juba Kalamka, Kelly Kegger, Kevin Killian, Martin Pousson, >Kirk Read, Simon Sheppard, Chelsea Starr, Sage Vivant, and Greg >Wharton > > > >If you wish to donate funds directly to Paul Willis, please contact >Ian Philips at ian@suspectthoughts.com, >or send a check or money order made out to =E3Paul Willis=E4 to: > > > >Suspect Thoughts Press > >2215-R Market Street, PMB #544 > >San Francisco, CA 94114-1612 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:49:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Diasporic Avant-Gardes / upcoming November 19-20 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Diasporic Avant-Gardes: Experimental Poetics and Cultural Displacement" is= =20 coming up next weekend, November 19-20, at University of California,=20 Irvine. The conference is open to the public, and all are invited. See the= =20 conference URL for information on how to attend: http://www.hri.uci.edu/Diasporic_Avant-Gardes/ The conference poster, and a flyer for the public reading at The Gypsy Den= =20 in Santa Ana on Saturday night, can be downloaded as well: http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac%5Fpages/ewatten/DAGposter.pdf http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac%5Fpages/ewatten/DAGreading.pdf =93Diasporic Avant-Gardes: Experimental Poetics and Cultural Displacement,= =94 a=20 poetry conference organized by Carrie Noland and Barrett Watten, explores=20 the connections between innovative practices developed by the European=20 avant-garde and those emerging in postcolonial contexts. This conference=20 will focus attention on the fruitful cross-fertilization that has occurred= =20 between diasporic, postcolonial, and minority poetries and experimental=20 poetries produced within the tradition of the European-American avant-garde. The format of the conference, which will include readings, performances,=20 and paper sessions, is designed specifically to allow poets and critics of= =20 different orientations to enter into productive debate. As a result of the= =20 exchanges supported by the conference, participants will establish new ways= =20 of approaching not only contemporary poetry, but also theories of race and= =20 representation. A diverse group of experimental poets are currently in=20 dialogue with cultural studies and critical theory; however, these poets do= =20 not necessarily follow in the wake of established academic trends.=20 =93Diasporic Avant-Gardes=94 is intended to bring to the fore innovations in= =20 poetic writing that both implicitly and explicitly suggest strategies for=20 critique. Conference sessions include =93Global Poetics,=94 =93Experimental Writing= and=20 Social Location,=94 =93Forms of Lyric Resistance,=94 =93African Diaspora,= =93Borders=20 and Peripheries,=94 =93Performing Diaspora,=94 =93Visual and Digital= Poetics.=94 =93Diasporic Avant-Gardes=94 will host a wide range of internationally= renowned=20 critics and poets working within the traditions of French surrealism,=20 Language Writing, and Futurist and Dadaist experimentation, including: Bruce Andrews Kamau Brathwaite Jean-Pierre Bobillot Christian B=F6k Michael Davidson Brent Edwards Bernard Heidsieck Lyn Hejinian Nathaniel Mackey Mark McMorris Tracie Morris Fred Moten Aldon Nielsen Rodrigo Toscano Edwin Torres Registration Fee: General Admission: $45.00; Non-UCI graduate students:=20 $20.00 with photo ID; Non-UCI presenters: $35.00; Free for all UCI graduate= =20 students and faculty. Conference Dinner, Friday November 19, 6:00PM,=20 $20.00: General, Non-UCI and UCI graduate students and faculty Registration is required. On-line registration form at:=20 www.hri.uci.edu/Diasporic_Avant-Gardes/Registration.html Event Location: Friday, November 19: UCHRI, Administration Bldg. 338 and=20 the Cross-Cultural Center. Saturday, November 20: The Cross-Cultural Center and Humanities=20 Instructional Bldg. 135. Special Events: Friday, November 19, 6:30 PM: Dinner at the Atrium Hotel,=20 18700 MacArthur Blvd., Irvine, CA 92612 ($20.00 fee); Saturday, November=20 20, 8:00 PM =96 10:00 PM: Group Poetry Reading at The Gypsy Den Grand= Central=20 Caf=E9, 125 N Broadway Ave., Santa Ana, CA 92701 (Free to the public) Major Sponsors: The University of California Humanities Research Institute= =20 (UCHRI), The International Center for Writing and Translation at UCI,=20 UCI,Humanities Center, UCI Dean of Humanities, Cross-Cultural Center, UCI=20 Associated Graduate Students, California Poets and Writers. Contact Information: Conference coordinators: Professor Carrie Noland,=20 Department of French and Italian, UC Irvine,=20 cjnoland@uci.edu; Professor Barrett Watten,=20 Department of English, Wayne State University,=20 b.watten@wayne.edu For questions concerning hotel accommodations, transportation, registration= =20 and event locations, please contact Shelleen Greene, Graduate Research=20 Assistant, greenes@uci.edu For additional conference information please visit:=20 www.hri.uci.edu/Diasporic_Av= ant-Gardes/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:43:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Poetry is Rebellion In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" robert, thanks, and just to say, i hear you... i'm looking for politically efficacious actions, but i also think this is not good enough over the long-term... call me a malcontent, i guess, but from where i sit, we in the u.s. need to do a whole lot better... and in case i've suggested otherwise, i'm sure kerry had his share of dumbfucks (sorry) voting for him too (and setting aside this question of formal education)... and i can't say i'm pleased about this... in point of fact we need a more informed electorate if we're to cope well with the kinds of problems we're facing, about to face... it's not that i would condescend to the masses, you understand, but rather that i don't think we can ignore our collective ignorance... i don't say we'll ever persuade everyone to think like "we" do---but i believe you can bring reasonable people to the table and manage to persuade them to look at the picture a wee bit differently... what kind of table? is one question i keep coming back to... and in what i'm saying i assume only that incremental change over time is possible... here too, i'm not suggesting that i'm so enlightened, either, but i've been lucky to end up in a place (so to speak) where, whatever else, i'm able to think these things through (that's one kind of table, i suppose)... i just didn't have this kind of time on my hands, and this kind of encouragement, when i worked in fortune 500... but maybe that's just me... i don't know if anyone will find this encouraging, but: here at isu the overwhelming majority of students in my classes this term (that's 51 total) feel that gay marriages will be permitted within the next two decades (i think my little surveys are fairly accurate)... that's an awful long time to wait, i know, but my point is that this (far from radical) student population in central illinois (a blue state, i know) has, in the main, no issues with gays marrying... i like to see this as a hopeful sign---i choose to see this as a hopeful sign... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:29:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 11/15-11/19 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Monday, November 15, 8 pm Elizabeth Reddin & Kerri Sonnenberg Elizabeth Reddin=B9s work has appeared in Brooklyn Rail, 6x6, and New York Nights. She has been the organizer of the Long Poems at the Parkside readin= g series, from which has come an ongoing project recording the work of other writers. Her label, Deerhead Records, will soon be releasing, with the help of Ugly Duckling Presse, a live recording of Origin of the World by Lewis Warsh and one of Midwinter Day by Bernadette Mayer. She co-edits Destinies with Elizabeth Bethea. Kerri Sonnenberg lives in Chicago where she edits th= e journal Conundrum and co-directs the Discrete Reading Series. Her first book, The Mudra, is just out from Litmus Press. Other work has appeared in Crayon, Antennae, Moria, Bird Dog, Chase Park, 26, and Factorial. Wednesday, November 17, 8 pm Peter Gizzi & Tom Pickard Peter Gizzi=B9s books include Artificial Heart and Some Values of Landscape and Weather. In fall of 2004 Salt Publishing will reprint his first book along with 60 pages of early and uncollected work as Periplum and other poems (1987-1992). He is also the editor of The House that Jack Built: The Collected Lectures of Jack Spicer. Tom Pickard lives on the edge of Fiend=B9s Fell in the Northern Pennine Hills on the English-Scottish border. His new book of poems, The Dark Months of May, has just been published by Flood Editions. He is the author of ten other books of poetry and prose, includin= g Hole in the Wall: New and Selected Poems. Friday, November 19, 10:30 pm =B3Lovely Ladies=B2 with Reg E Gaines Two-time Tony nominee, playwright, Nuyorican Grand Slam Champion, and poet Reg E Gaines celebrates the publication of his latest book, 2 b Blk & Wrt, with a poetry and audio performance with the band Hush Project (featuring Calvin Gaines, Matana Roberts, and Mark Wilson) and special guests Sophia Capatorto-Weiss, Marcella Goheen, Justina Mejias, and Aileen Reyes. ALSO NOTE: You are invited to a benefit reading & silent ART auction for T H E O W L P R E S S *Tuesday November 16, 2004 5-8pm at The Bowery Poetry Club 3 0 8 B o w e r y (Bleecker-Houston) Poetry readings by: ALICE NOTLEY, EDWIN TORRES, LEE ANN BROWN, EDMUND BERRIGAN Artworks by: Emilie Clark, Greg Fuchs, Brandon Downing, Will Yackulic, and others Sumptuous Food * Fine Wine * Gorgeous Books ------------------------------------------------------------ The Tsatsawassa Poetry Workshop Enjoy a winter workshop poetry retreat in the Upper Hudson Valley with Bernadette Mayer and Philip Good. Write, see the sights and be inspired by the country environment and Bernadette=B9s legendary approach towards poetry. Stay in a structure built in 1900 as a church and now converted to a house. There are two bedrooms with double beds available and one double bed in a high ceiling attic space. The cost is $250.00 per person for a Friday night thru Sunday afternoon stay. All meals are included. Contact:psgood@hotmail.com The FALL CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:42:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Watten & Fearing In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20041111153830.01a00078@mail.wayne.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I just wanted to say I like what Barry Watten (on his blog) is doing in dialog with the quotes from the poetry of Kenneth Fearing. The interweaving of both languages- compelling the so called 'past' into the present - strikes me as a fruitful, intimate un-distancing work of the elders, particular in this case to the work of Fearing where the presence of his work and political engagement in the Depression - have been so obscured. (I remember when I had Momo's Press - sometime in the very early eighties - getting a call from his son who, I believe, lived in Portland. He was trying desperately to get his father's work back into print. Sadly now, little help was I). Barry, I believe, in taking Fearing off the critical fringes of dismissal (thank you my communist hating New Critic/Agragarian steeped mentors!) is providing a way to re-engage Fearing's language on its own terms, putting its particulars back on the page, making them resonate with Barry's, and letting that relationship conjure up potentially fresh interpretations. In this obviously harrowing time (in which multiple issues are back on 'their' table) - for any of us at least two degrees left of center - I think this up front dialog (conversation) with our forbears (obscure or not) is compelling, vitally necessary, and a refreshing departure from familiar critical discourse. I look forward to more by Barry and others. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:50:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: demand an investigation/Votescam 2004 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Write now to demand that your representatives begin the process of investigating the fraudulent 2004 election! http://www.moveon.org/investigatethevote/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:46:16 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I knew that that was what you meant: but the question was angled somewhat toward - the implication - tat Pound had "failed - yes, he did, according to what I know of his biog in his last years in Italy, feel he had failed. I think that as to failure ... if we are talking about failure: all we or you and I need to say is that we basically only fail on our own terms - or subjectively we never fail. This is important - one defines "success" as basically being happy most of the time and also living life well aware that that there are always problems. Most are solvable in some way. I if someone else thinks you or I or the person down the road to have "failed" that is their problem - WE can choose to feel good about ourselves. Pound, for example, was depressed and probably not well - he was old when he decided he had "failed" but he survived to 70 or so and wrote a lot of poetry etc had some children (or a daughter? one son?) in no way is that a failure. But as to "failure" its probably a good thing to actually practice it - as learning to cope with setbacks and failures is part of life - take my own writing I am fairly indifferent as to how they are received or even who or if they are read. I enjoyed writing many of them but whether critics will ever approve of them in the future I am completely - or very - indifferent to. I like seeing them in print but, not being ever published would have little affect on my life... It would be nice to win 2 million$ but it probably wont happen!! So I get on with life. I am/or have been (with Cookson's crib)..working through the Cantos and I find that they are fascinating - have to admit I haven't read them all.....and yes the "middle" stuff seems dry..... But I think Lew Welch didn't know what he was talking about. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hadbawnik" To: Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 6:22 AM Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > Well Richard if you'll notice I didn't say whether > I thought Pound had failed I only noted that he > said he'd failed and that for Ginsberg and many > other poets he hadn't and for others he had. > > I personally find the Cantos -- those of them I've > read -- to be full of beauty and light high > thought and passion -- although many of the middle > ones are all but unreadable. however I've had > conversations with other poets who find pound > completely tiresome. lew welch said he "didn't > leave us any poetry." > > as to the question of failure -- how can any poet > NOT fail? > > DH > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of > richard.tylr > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:04 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > > I dont agree - Pond very fragmentaion was a > methodology - a valid one -sure his"a paradiso" > wasnt attained but many many other poets would say > the same (depending on teir mood at the time of > considering their work) - "failed" > maybe on his own terms but Ginsberg was right - > overall Pounds poetry and his work was a > success...see my short post on this...we know many > poets/artist who searched for the paradiso but of > course it was this very search/struggle that > matters - not even thepolitics of the poet. The > art is(almost all). > > See also my short post on this. > > If Pound failed then we are all doomed to > "failure". How cana poet "fail"? > > Richard Taylor > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Hadbawnik" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 5:58 AM > Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > > > > with all due respect, this is a valid question, > especially for the > > emotionally shattered, disturbed e.p. who wrote > the late cantos. even > > the robust, younger pound had conceded that his > society and culture > > had stopped listening to him (see hugh selwyn > mauberly, and the > > literary essays, etc.) indeed half the cantos > are taken up with > > kvetching about the poet's high place among > princes of antiquity > > (Malatesta, the Albigensians, > > Confucius) and how things ain't what they used > to be. then pound > > signed on with mussolini, thinking he would > restore that place, and > > was figuratively and literally broken by the > result. > > > > I think it's fair to say that pound really > thought he had failed in > > his project to make a paradiso > > > > > > terrestre > > > > which is what the cantos are about. he said as > much to allen ginsberg > > when he visited him in italy not long before he > died. of course allen > > tried to convince him he was wrong about that > and for many poets he > > succeeded brilliantly. but for others the cantos > are no doubt a > > turgid, fragmented mess. > > > > DH > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf > Of Anastasios Kozaitis > > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 2:04 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > > > > You must be saying that facetiously, Chris. > > > > I'm am MORE than certain that what Ez considered > his particular kind > > of poetry all there was or is in terms of poetry > for that matter... > > > > > > On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:42:53 -0800, Chris > Stroffolino > > wrote: > > > "That I lost my world > > > fighting the > center" > > > > > > could equally be apt? > > > > > > Mary--do you think Pound is saying poetry is > > futile in that > > > or rather that his particular kind of > > poetry is? > > > > > > ---------- > > > >From: Mary Jo Malo > > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > >Subject: poetry is futile - prove me wrong > > > >Date: Tue, Nov 9, 2004, 6:40 AM > > > > > > > > > > > That I lost my center > > > > fighting the > > world The dreams clash > > > > and are > > shattered > > > > > > > > and that I tried to make a paradiso > > > > > > terrestre > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/pound/n > > otes.htm > > > > > > > > i'll have none > > > > of your -ologies > > > > no advice > > > > show me what works > > > > what has been proven > > > > on the side of the road > > > > on the office floor > > > > give me the dice > > > > i'm loading them my way > > > > > > > > mary jo > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:20:44 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: pound's failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did anyone bother to read the comments by Bacigalupo and Gibson at the referenced link? In the context of his personal project, Pound failed in his own eyes. The philosophical question should be whether his goal was attainable. That was the intended slant of the question. Defining success is definitely subjective, and happiness is certainly no indicator of anything other than being happy. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:58:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ob MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:01:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: "Gonzales is definitely pro-torture Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Bush Told To Name Gonzales to Succeed Ashcroft: 20th Century Torquemada Promises American Inquisition; People Tortured For Their Religious Beliefs: Author of "Franchising Torture: How To Outsource The Hot Lead Enema" Selected To Replace Evangelically Sadistic Ashcroft: Dan Mitrione: "Gonzales is definitely pro-torture and for protecting the life of the born-again torturer. Witness Abu Graib." By TEARANDA HURT Companies Sue Retirees To Cut Promised Health Benefits: Firms Claim Right to Change Coverage, Attempt to Pick Sympathetic Jurisdictions: Bush Plan to Disenfranchise Workers Going Forward: Republicans Smug Over 'Friendly Courts': "Americans Have That 'Whip Me Like A Little Bitch' Mentality. So Why be Surprised When Somebody Takes Advantage Of It."---George Halvorson, CEO, Kaiser Permanente By YELLOUGH SCHMALTZ They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:27:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed once it happened it was everywhere that we were unprepared, incontestable flesh-pillar that transformed differently from other transformations in the long sleep we had been accustomed and customary now mathematical tensor calculates describes the torsion of indiscernibles so that we might not speak or be spoken for so that we might not be spoken of or silenced in everybody's differend the killing is over there on the other block our destiny there were descriptors within which bad memory baits peaks just beneath the surface ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:26:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: JT Chan Subject: Announcement of new issue of zine Comments: To: Women Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The new issue of PoetrySz:demystifying mental illness at http://www.poetrysz.net is online. Check it out. Submissions are welcome. Send 4-6 poems to poetrysz@yahoo.com . Thanks. The Editor __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 03:51:17 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit votescam futile failure ob torture no zine.... blg..a...e...i..o..u..y....xxxx.....drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 03:04:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: pound's failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just found this weird book by pound on a private press translation of gourmont's the natural philosophy of love 1931 edition poor shape shit i'll never read it what's everyone yabbering about gato barbieri swung hard tonight he's 72 & legally blind swung poetry failed or not failed bad poetry fails but so much of it is accepted workshop anyone /? street - degree in life experience where s your life? it's certainly not in your poem shelley did he have a degree do workshops? my friend said ferlenghetti said HA where are YOU in all this? why is that forgotten or conciously obliterated why'd mitch say last week that alot of folks are intentionally trying to write bad poems? to make the poem fail? penderecki is certainly a great composer i'm listening to a scratchy piece of vinyl as we speak... are we speaking? you tell me google poems the new trend... shit i'll try it some day. let's all fail together one time my neck got stuck in the SCRIPTURE & the alarm went off in my head click said the lp quick said the very last fox sd 11/12/04 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 04:07:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: career vs lifestyle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm not in an institution tho i was institutionalized w hen i was a kid the chirkendoose said it depends on how you look at things i'm not a career poet tho poetry is my career or one of the things i do my poems are a part of my lifestyle and i want as many published as possible but not to further my career tho that certainly might help but because i created them and lkike visual art or music or dance or plumbing or brick layin i want people to see them etc etc etc career is $$$$ most times poetry is ))))00000000000's tho many now-a-days too many in fact make poetry their career HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:44:46 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: pound's failure - "the traps ..Pound trapped himself into" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mary etal There is so much on line one gets overwhelmed with information - but I read a biography recently about Pound: and in his last years he couldn't write - felt he had failed - said he had - previously T S Eliot had assured him he would be of great significance for (a long time ) to come - "forever" - like Shakespeare etc)...I think we are in agreement basically - but whether his work was major or failed or whatever is - well its been debated forever already - but it leads to the a larger question as to what a poet should aspire to do - were and why is a poet doing what he/she is doing (personally by the way I don't like "rap " poetry that rhymes or whatever) but I can see the importance to the culture of such stuff (Steve Dalchinsky is hipping along with some great stuff - that's one way to go) - some how if one can coordinate the 'pop' with the 'high' stuff one is onto it..maybe another example is Alan Sondheim - but Alan gets into the material of his production much as an artist might get right into the technology or materials of his craft - some NZ artists I can think of like that (there were many) include Billy Apple, Len Lye, Richard Killeen..Dalchinsky highlights the energy of the moment so to speak and maybe is closer to the trad of Ted Berrigan and so on ..Pound to swing away... was very much obsessed with the "mainstream " high culture - but as Charles Bernstein points out (in A Poetics "Pounding Fascism")- his fragmenting and the deliberate use of the of the polyvocal (yes it was mainly Eurocentric but it was a beginning) in his work ( or the attempt there off) was a counter to his valorisation of the "tradition" (Ovid etc etc) [in contrast his friend Williams Carlos Williams stayed in the US and engaged with the working and the local people (not always "popular culture (is 'popular culture' 'working class' culture I was asked by a friend and fellow poet the other day)] all of this muddied by his hatred of usury which turned to hatred of Jews which was ironical (and sad) because many who helped him were Jewish - Ginsberg, Zukofsky and many others.... There are many cases of writers etc repudiating their work at their life's end - Kafka wanted everything he wrote burnt - but note that Pound didn't give such instructions! Many many writers owe an enormous debt to Pound - he as indeed like a vortex energising the literary world: he bucked the system, he joined forces with Mussolini - but in that area he was "nutty" and cranky - he had some good points about the wastefulness of US/European capitalism but his choice of fascism instead was unwise - he was maybe victimised by the US army and Govt who didn't really help the Jews very much....good to hammer Pound to take attention away from your 'failings': there is evidence that some of the top nazis were taken into the US Govt net (the obvious example is von Braun) - so he had a "point" but he was very clumsy in making it - his politics were (while maybe having some 'truth' - were very patchy and often incoherent - he was an anti-Semite who had many very close Jewish friends - his work remains. Our challenge is to work on projects that may be beautiful and interesting and challenging but also serve not to attack any particular people (hopefully to find common ground with many people - and yet not to be scared to attack untruth or injustice when we see it or feel it is there: and to create something new and vital) and avoid the traps Pound - in his enormous enthusiasm for beauty and culture and art and history- trapped himself into. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Jo Malo" To: Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 3:20 PM Subject: pound's failure > Did anyone bother to read the comments by Bacigalupo and Gibson at the > referenced link? In the context of his personal project, Pound failed in his own > eyes. The philosophical question should be whether his goal was attainable. That > was the intended slant of the question. Defining success is definitely > subjective, and happiness is certainly no indicator of anything other than being > happy. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:17:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: organize to mobilize Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed GOD HELP US...YOUR GOD MY GOD PICK A GOD Frist in the Senate is promising to end the practice of filibustering once and for all. The Repubs only need a majority to effectively change Senate law and accomplish this goal. They have the majority. There doesn't have to be the 60-member majority to do this and there won't be any filibustering of the move to end filibustering. After this happens, Repubs will be sitting in the White House, ruling Congress and on the verge of stacking the Supreme Court with Republican judges with lifetime appointments. The factor missing from this equation is the American people. There were quite a few people that did not vote for Bush. I think it's time we talk about how to organize and how to mobilize. WE HAVE TO DO THIS NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE, I'M NOT SHOUTING SADLY BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A CHAOTIC NEXT FEW YEARS INDEED...PERHAPS AS NEVER BEFORE ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:35:32 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Iris Chang... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iris Chang on the Rape of Nanking... "Many soldiers went beyond rape to disembowel women, slice off their breasts, nail them alive to walls...Fathers were forced to rape their daughters, and sons their mothers, as other family members watched. Not only did live burials, castration, the carving of organs and the roasting of people become routine, but still more diabolical tortures were practiced, such as hanging people by their tongues on iron hooks or burying people to their waists and watching them torn apart by German shepherds. So sickening was the spectacle that even Nazis in the city were horrified... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:50:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Announcing P - Q U E U E MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Announcing a new yearbook: P - Q U E U E Vol. I: statements of poetics & parole // poetry in prose featuring: Barbara Cole + Logan Esdale + Noah Eli Gordon + Gordon Hadfield + Jim Higdon + Andrew Joron + W.B. Keckler + Pattie McCarthy + Eliza Newman-Saul + Meredith Quartermain + Kyle Schlesinger + Tim Shaner + Jane Sprague + Sasha Steensen + James Tierney Perfectbound in red (7.5 x 5.25); 173 pages; letterpressed cover To order: $8 / copy (incl. shipping) check or money order to: P-Queue c/o Sarah Campbell 306 Clemens Hall English Department SUNY Buffalo Buffalo, NY 14260 (P-Queue Vol. II is currently accepting submissions. Vol. II will feature essays only, loosely and widely conceived. Mail submissions to the address above and include SASE for reply. Deadline extended: Dec. 15, 2004.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:26:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: please read! | email from poetics admin. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all: I've just found out that, sadly, perhaps as far back as March or April 2004 someone has been sending out back-channel reprimands to subscribers suggesting that these subscribers are disturbing the list-dynamic and that they should consider leaving the list. *Please note* that all correspondence concerning the moderation of the list has and always will come from poetics@buffalo.edu Also, I'd like to point out that since the list is unmoderated in the sense that messages from subscribers are sent directly out to the list and are only moderated, and only if necessary, after (by an email from poetics@buffalo.edu), if your posts are delayed it is because the listserv software is slow or the university server is experiencing difficulties. In other words, unless your post is a flame, nothing is censored on the list. all my best, Lori Emerson listserv moderator ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:33:45 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: new orleans school of the imagination, Nov 16-18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New Orleans School for the Imagination presents Three amazing nights of New Orleans Performance, Art & Poetry NEXT WEEK TUESDAY -- NOV 16 -- 7:30PM WEDNES -- NOV 17 -- 7:30PM THURSDA -- NOV 18 -- 7:30PM =20 The Festival kicks off TUESDAY NIGHT @ 7:30PM with traditional Native American ceremonial chants, song & dance featuring TOM LABLANC and VALENTINE PIERCE and over 50 Paintings by artists: JIM SOHR, PATI D'AMICO, TASHA ROBBINS, WILLIAM WARREN MICHAEL FEDOR, ROMANO, HERBERT KEARNEY, KICHEA BURT BARBIEO GIZZ, BILL GRIFFIN =20 The Festival continues WEDNESDAY NIGHT @ 7:30PM with Y A W P Magazine=E2=80=99s Premier Release Party!! FREE WINE BODY MASSAGES RED BEANS & RICE Songwriter PLIAR GIZZ performs along with poetry readings by contributors DAVE BRINKS RODGER KAMENETZ BILL MYERS PAULL CHASSE MEGAN BURNS BILL LAVENDER JOSE TORRES TAMA MICHAEL DOMINICI JAMES NOLAN LEE MEITZEN GRUE ANDY YOUNG GINA FERRARA RICHARD COLLINS KAY MURPHY & others =20 The Festival concludes THURSDAY NIGHT @ 7:30PM with =E2=80=9CSacred Practitioners in Tongues=E2=80=9D hosted by DAVE BRINKS featuring poets: ANDREI CODRESCU BRENDA MARIE OSBEY BERNADTTE MAYER MICHAEL GIZZI PHILIP GOOD along with special guests jazz flutist ELUARD BURT and tribal fusion dancer CLAUDIA COPELAND =20 ALL EVENTS @ THE GOLD MINE SALOON 701 DAUPHINE STREET in the French Quarter =20 For more info 504-586-0745 or www.17poets.com=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:33:44 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Remembering Irises MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Such a wonderful historian with a promising career but no future, one that would have continued to enlighten us to for decades. Her tragic suicide yesterday at such a young age is testimony to all that is terribly wrong in this world - her subject matter, man's humanity to man; and her mental fragility, something which can be diagnosed and barely managed but not cured. A quiet desperate futility. my mother's name was Iris put a bullet in her heart to end the voices in her head to stop seeing hitler underneath the bed she too died on 11/11 eleven years later i bounced down the side of a mountain on 11/11 in a pick-up truck nearly died doctors sliced me open titaniumed up my spine good to go eleven years later on 11/11 iris died again oh yeah on 11/11 in the eleventh hr the war to end all wars ended ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:46:20 -0500 Reply-To: Wald Reid Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wald Reid Subject: Reading Worcester MA Burkard & Wald 11/19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reading: =20 Michael Burkard & Diane Wald Friday, November 19, 7:00 Assumption College Library Worcester, MA directions and other info. at: http://www.assumption.edu/dept/Library/events/dalzonartssched.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:23:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: DEAR MR. PRESIDENT by palestinian rap producer Fred WrecK!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/34073.php DEAR MR. PRESIDENT DEAR MR. PRESIDENT A song directed at President George Bush. Listen to it today by downloading the mp3! http: //www.fredwreck.com/ DEAR MR. PRESIDENT A song directed at President George Bush. Listen to it today by downloading the mp3! S.T.O.P. Movement 2 - Dear Mr. President (Dirty) S.T.O.P. Movement 2 - Dear Mr. President (Clean) (to download http: //www.fredwreck.com/ ) Track Features: Everlast Mobb Deep The Alchemist Mack 10 WC Evidence Defari KRS-One B-Real <>http: //www.fredwreck.com/ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:31:18 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: Maximalist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The writer on the list used the expression "lashing out" as - was it the post about the return of the authoritarian personality? Already receding in memory, the flash of a phrase and its fleeting moment, attention, and inscription: where? The posts themselves, whatever the list, participate in the incompleteness that is part of what they are, and whatever else they are, they are not material objects. "An act of pure malice is no easier to realize than an act of pure goodness. What is more, it is by no means certain that we could even distinguish between a pure act of malice and a pure act of goodness, since they would have exactly the same structure" (Zupancic 90). Or: "As we have known since Althusser, the salient or obvious features of a situation, which are supposed to protect us from self-deception, can in fact involve the most refined form of self-deception. Every ideology works hard to make certain things 'obvious', and the more we find these things obvious, self-evident and unquestionable, the more successfully the ideology has done its job. If we accept Allison's suggestions - that _there is something in reality on which we can rely_ when we are testing our maxims - then we must also accept the logic underlying the following maxim: 'Act in such a way that the Fuhrer, if he knew about your actions, would approve of it" (Zupancic 93). For: "The fundamental ideological gesture consists in providing an image for this structural 'evil'. The gap opened by an act (i.e. the unfamiliar, 'out-of-place' effect of an act) is immediately linked in this ideological gesture to an _image_. As a rule this is an image of suffering...." (Zupancic 95). From an earlier chapter, "The Sadean Trap": "Suppose I have a violent dislike for someone, and have come into a piece of information about him, which I know will cause him great pain if he learns of it. With the intent of causing him pain, I decide to inform him of the matter, but I justify this action to myself on the grounds of his right to know. Accordingly, rather than admitting that this is a vicious act of inflicting unnecessary pain on another, I represent it to myself (and perhaps to others) as a laudable act of truth-telling. I might even convince myself that it is my sacred duty. Allison takes this example to illustrate what he calls the 'self-deception' by means of which we are able to ignore 'the morally salient factor(s)' of a situation. We will take this example, however, as an illustration of something else: the perverse attitude which consists in presenting our duty as an excuse for our actions. What is more, we are dealing here with a case of _double_ self-deception. The first moment of self-deception is the one pointed out by Allison: we deceive ourselves as to our actual intention, which is to hurt another. But this self-deception is possible only on the basis of another, more fundamental moment of self-deception. It is possible only in so far as we take (the 'content' of) our duty to be 'ready-made', pre-existing our involvement in the situation. This is why it would be impossible to expose this person's actions as hypocritical by saying to him: 'We know that your real intention was to hurt another person.'" (Zupancic 58-9). So: "This is why we have to maintain that it is only the act which opens up a universal horizon or posits the universal, not that the latter, being already established, allows us to 'guess' what our duty is, and delivers a guarantee against misconceiving it. At the same time, this theoretical stance has the advantage of making it impossible for the subject to assume the perverse attitude we discussed in Chapter 3: the subject cannot hide behind her duty - she is responsible for what she refers to as her duty. And: This brings us back to the indistinguishability of good and evil. What exactly can this mean? Let us start with what it does not mean. It does not refer to the _incertitude_ as to whether an act is (or was) 'good' or 'bad'. It refers to the fact that the very structure of the act is foreign to the register constituted by the couplet good/bad - that it is neither good nor bad" (Zupancic 94). Work Cited Alenka Zupancic, Ethics of the Real. London: Verso, 2000. [However, in Kia Lindroos, Now-Time/Image-Space, Jyvaskyla: SoPhi, 1999: "After studying Kant more carefully, Benjamin rejected this thought, because, although he had always admired Kant's systematic thinking, he came to resist Kant's 'thoroughgoing ethical interest.' Kantian ethics leads, according to Benjamin, to ignoring the aspects of the historico- philosophical." (The footnote points to May 1918 - the date itself should suggest a certain impatience with ethics - and Lindroos returns elsewhere to Kant's presence in Benjamin's thought)]. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:37:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Contact info for Kevin Hehir Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Does anyone have recent contact info for Kevin Hehir? Mail sent to the khehir@cs.mun.ca account keeps bouncing back. Thanks Ben http://www.uiowa.edu/~iareview/mainpages/tirwebhome.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:35:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: ob In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Maybe you should send less attachments with the same URL at one time? Our firewall read this as a virus and crashed our network R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 9:59 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: ob > > > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> > http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> > > _ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:35:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: pound's failure In-Reply-To: <1ec.2d99b970.2ec577fc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit to say Pound failed is to show ignorance of failure that is many times success- Pound is the most important poet of the Modernist period because he opened up new ways of doing poetry fused with old ways and this bridge makes him important. I don't really care what Pound's personal or scholarly goals were- he was a master and remains so. R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:21 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: pound's failure > > > Did anyone bother to read the comments by Bacigalupo and Gibson at the > referenced link? In the context of his personal project, Pound > failed in his own > eyes. The philosophical question should be whether his goal was > attainable. That > was the intended slant of the question. Defining success is definitely > subjective, and happiness is certainly no indicator of anything > other than being > happy. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:54:44 -0500 Reply-To: Michael Bogue Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Bogue Subject: Re: Smoking at readings & elsewhere In-Reply-To: <001601c4bd40$7956ba20$8bf4a8c0@netserver> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recall when I worked for Greenpeace *everyone* smoked. They gave me sh*t for buying a burger in a (gasp!) styrofoam container, then proceeded to dump carcinogens in their lungs & go on about how much pot they were going to smoke that night. I found it a bit hypocritical that people would spend their days rallying against pollution, then proceed to pollute the single environment they had the most control over. On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:50:01 +0100, david.bircumshaw wrote: > There is a kind of fun in this discussion, and the delight of a lot of voices. I come from the kind of point of view of an > unreconstructed Sixties liberal ( I was only young at the time tho' - 13 in '68 etc) thus I tend to see things in terms of social > polity of let be what people will be, but though that is a very fuzzy vision, which I hold dear, which includes tolerance for > smokers, but not hard drugs, an aversion to cars, but a friendliness to trains and a deep fear (I am a Brit) of gun owners. Hope > that makes sense. > I also have a deep unease of anyone making proscriptive remarks about social behaviour, although of course my unease would be > tempered (in my case) by people advocating unrestricted gun ownership, legalising hard drugs, or deregulating traffic so nobody had > to bother about speed limits (I have a particular sensitivity about this as my girlfriend has a partial disability and I know just > how frightening crossing the roads can be to her) but it's ok to criticise smokers but lets pretend drivers aren't a problem > (whoops, are the latest wars about control of oil fields or tobacco plantations?). > Of course smoking is a bad habit, and, yes, it does lay us in the hands of the corporations and the exchequer (unless of course you > live in working-class England where we have so many dodges you wouldn't ....) ahem, I never said that, but the corporations and the > governments infest everything we do, almost, buy, certainly, even Greenpeace is a brand name these days, so I have problems with > Ron's original post ( I understand from occasional remarks that he's a field manager for somebody or other, presumably his role, and > his poetic presence, involve a considerable expenditure of environmentally noxious substances into the world. Allen Ginsberg could > do his rant but he was quite close to becoming a corporate objet desire anyhow. The best remarks I've seen on this, which are many, > are Anny Ballardini's about smoking five fags while reading the stuff and Richard Tyler's superbly apposite quote from Auden: > > Private faces in public places > Are wiser and nicer > Than public faces in private places. > > (it's doggerel poetry but it has a nice touch, as Auden sometimes can) > > > > Best > > Dave > > David Bircumshaw > > Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet > & Painting Without Numbers > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > -- "Not I, but the city, teaches." - Socrates ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:41:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: organize to mobilize In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My guess is that the Republicans would only want to end filibustering temporarily--i.e., until they're out of power, when, again, filibustering would become a Good Thing. Hal Today's Special Coyote's Engines http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_featureartist_Coyote'sEngines.pdf Halvard Johnson halvard@earthlink.net http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ { GOD HELP US...YOUR GOD MY GOD PICK A GOD { { Frist in the Senate is promising to end the practice of filibustering { once { and for all. The Repubs only need a majority to effectively change { Senate law and accomplish this goal. They have the majority. There { doesn't have to be the 60-member majority to do this and there { won't be any filibustering of the move to end filibustering. { { After this happens, Repubs will be sitting in the White House, ruling { Congress and on the verge of stacking the Supreme Court with { Republican judges with lifetime appointments. { { The factor missing from this equation is the American people. There { were quite a few people that did not vote for Bush. { { I think it's time we talk about how to organize and how to mobilize. { { WE HAVE TO DO THIS NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE, I'M NOT { SHOUTING SADLY BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A CHAOTIC NEXT { FEW YEARS INDEED...PERHAPS AS NEVER BEFORE { ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:18:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: ob Comments: To: Haas Bianchi In-Reply-To: <000001c4c8cd$45093a20$9be60f18@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed there weren't any attachments. even websites have duplicate urls. i don't understand. - alan On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Haas Bianchi wrote: > Alan > > Maybe you should send less attachments with the same URL at one time? Our > firewall read this as a virus and crashed our network > > R > > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim >> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 9:59 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: ob >> >> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> >> _ >> > recent http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/files/ recent related to WVU http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm partial mirror at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:29:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Smoking at readings & elsewhere Comments: To: Michael Bogue In-Reply-To: <51d22234041112075471483142@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > I recall when I worked for Greenpeace *everyone* smoked. They gave me > sh*t for buying a burger in a (gasp!) styrofoam container, then > proceeded to dump carcinogens in their lungs & go on about how much > pot they were going to smoke that night. > To be fair, there are ways to inhale pot (bong, vaporizer) more safely; it takes less pot to catch the required buzz than it does tobacco, so pot smokers inhale less total material; and nobody with even a single brain cell left would ruin good bud with the kind of chemicals routinely added to cigarettes. It is, of course (hi, Alice B.!), possible to ingest cannabis or take it sublingually, but smoking it makes it easier to titrate the dosage -- translation: it's easier to eat Way Too Much than it is to smoke too much. Signed, Medical Marijuana User With Asthma Who Hasn't Died Yet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:44:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Smoking at readings & elsewhere Comments: To: Michael Bogue In-Reply-To: <51d22234041112075471483142@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I hope everyone here (or has participated in this discussion) is aware of the new personal documentary by Ross McElwee, "Bright Leaves," which is, as all his work, ingratiating and illuminating, and what's more by a Southerner who has tangential connections to tobacco. now of course there is another cash crop in Carolina, though it remains untaxed. Robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Michael Bogue wrote: > I recall when I worked for Greenpeace *everyone* smoked. They gave me > sh*t for buying a burger in a (gasp!) styrofoam container, then > proceeded to dump carcinogens in their lungs & go on about how much > pot they were going to smoke that night. > > I found it a bit hypocritical that people would spend their days > rallying against pollution, then proceed to pollute the single > environment they had the most control over. > > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:50:01 +0100, david.bircumshaw > wrote: >> There is a kind of fun in this discussion, and the delight of a lot of voices. I come from the kind of point of view of an >> unreconstructed Sixties liberal ( I was only young at the time tho' - 13 in '68 etc) thus I tend to see things in terms of social >> polity of let be what people will be, but though that is a very fuzzy vision, which I hold dear, which includes tolerance for >> smokers, but not hard drugs, an aversion to cars, but a friendliness to trains and a deep fear (I am a Brit) of gun owners. Hope >> that makes sense. >> I also have a deep unease of anyone making proscriptive remarks about social behaviour, although of course my unease would be >> tempered (in my case) by people advocating unrestricted gun ownership, legalising hard drugs, or deregulating traffic so nobody had >> to bother about speed limits (I have a particular sensitivity about this as my girlfriend has a partial disability and I know just >> how frightening crossing the roads can be to her) but it's ok to criticise smokers but lets pretend drivers aren't a problem >> (whoops, are the latest wars about control of oil fields or tobacco plantations?). >> Of course smoking is a bad habit, and, yes, it does lay us in the hands of the corporations and the exchequer (unless of course you >> live in working-class England where we have so many dodges you wouldn't ....) ahem, I never said that, but the corporations and the >> governments infest everything we do, almost, buy, certainly, even Greenpeace is a brand name these days, so I have problems with >> Ron's original post ( I understand from occasional remarks that he's a field manager for somebody or other, presumably his role, and >> his poetic presence, involve a considerable expenditure of environmentally noxious substances into the world. Allen Ginsberg could >> do his rant but he was quite close to becoming a corporate objet desire anyhow. The best remarks I've seen on this, which are many, >> are Anny Ballardini's about smoking five fags while reading the stuff and Richard Tyler's superbly apposite quote from Auden: >> >> Private faces in public places >> Are wiser and nicer >> Than public faces in private places. >> >> (it's doggerel poetry but it has a nice touch, as Auden sometimes can) >> >> >> >> Best >> >> Dave >> >> David Bircumshaw >> >> Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet >> & Painting Without Numbers >> >> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ >> > > > -- > "Not I, but the city, teaches." - Socrates > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:45:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Apostasies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I will no longer take the Boss' name in vain. Hang it all, Bruce, there can be but one Thunder Road. Robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:52:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Zukofsky/ On reading/Googling, etc. Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I might have said somewhere back that I belong to a small Zukofsky reading group. We have been reading "A"; currently we have just finished "A-13" which is a kind of silly thing to say. There is probably no way that anyone ever finishes, or exhausts the interpretive possibilities of most parts of "A". Which is not say there is not a unity and joy to be found in the parts. The night at home I read Part III of A-13 aloud to Sandy, my partner. She was cooking and perhaps I was literally singing for my supper! The textual music inherrent in Zukofsky's language is terrific and various - one might say (for "13") similar to riding the bow over the strings of a violin, from choppy intense strokes to extended melodies inner-spliced with counter melodies - spare to flush. One cannot escape the pulse of the work. It's a body in constant movement. Without going into detail here, the shifts Z makes are frequently full of wit and reversals of expectation (I suspect influenced, no doubt, by Joyce). At the same the interpretation of the work - line upon line - is a different challenge. A line or series of lines may constitute a seemingly entirely lucid proposal followed by a multiple layering of lines that suggest meaning but then appear to betray the meaning. It can be crazy making - on one hand, one gets embraced by the forays of the music and yet, on the other, one cannot gain an equally immediate take on what is being said or argued. The lines have a historical resonance (or allusion) with some other literature and yet seem cut the resonance or reference in half. There is also the complicating factor of the wit - Chaplinese, as Steve Ford has beautifully illustrated - which throws off rhetorical pomposity. It would be a little like stopping Ornette Colman's early trio in the middle of a collaborative improv to inquire 'what's the statement here.' So tonight - in group - we sit in John Norton's living room reading parts of A-13 aloud while facing Google on the monitor. We stop every time we come to a phrase that resonates and plug its key words into the search engine. It's not exactly a riot, but absolutely intriguing "God's spies", "Monkey God", the Horse/Honesty" take us, for example, to Lear, to Hindu Mythology, and to Aristotle. Rich references to read in themselves. Yet, we know that using these references - even if they broaden a specific horizon within the reading - they do not become a closed means of explication. Instead, Zukfosky becomes this collage artist or, perhaps, "cobbler" would be his association - cobbling together these pieces into something uniquely on their own, a rapidly reeling montage of discrete parts shaped by the poem's shifting formal structures. This is not to say there is no meaning here. But the meaning is in the improvisatory enjambment between structure, movement and content. It's the way one - the reader's eye & ear - move between these three elements that give the work an incorporative meaning or - in Zuk's terms - a way of seeing, living and loving. There's a full there, there. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:04:10 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: ob MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It *crashed* your -network-? Wow! That is impressive. Firewalls, usually, have nothing to do with virus checking. Firewalls just handle port blocking and masquerading. They stop other machines directly contacting your internal machines. The virus payload can still get through in email. The virus scanning of emails is usually done in conjunction with a mail server. Now, crashing your mail server or the machine on which the virus scanner runs, I can just about get a handle on but it takes an *awful* lot to crash a network. Like the power-cuts last year. Legend has it that a payload carrying laptop was connected to the internal network of a power company, the virus was injected into the machines on the network and everything brought to halt by, I think, a denial-of-service virus. Roger Alan Sondheim cc: Sent by: UB Poetics Subject: Re: ob discussion group 12/11/2004 17:18 Please respond to UB Poetics discussion group there weren't any attachments. even websites have duplicate urls. i don't understand. - alan On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Haas Bianchi wrote: > Alan > > Maybe you should send less attachments with the same URL at one time? Our > firewall read this as a virus and crashed our network > > R > > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim >> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 9:59 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: ob >> >> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object1.png <-> >> http://www.asondheim.org/object2.png <-> >> >> _ >> > recent http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/files/ recent related to WVU http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm partial mirror at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:04:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Smoking at readings & elsewhere In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gwyn Thanks for posting this. I chain-smoked cigarettes for 5 years and can assure you pot does a lot less damage to my lungs than cigarettes. My chest X-rays have been clear for the past 40 years or more & my vices go back even further than that. Eating it has never worked well for me. Another Medical Marijuana User (& Advocate) Who Would Qualify Wherever It's Legal -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Gwyn McVay Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 12:29 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Smoking at readings & elsewhere To be fair, there are ways to inhale pot (bong, vaporizer) more safely; it takes less pot to catch the required buzz than it does tobacco, so pot smokers inhale less total material; and nobody with even a single brain cell left would ruin good bud with the kind of chemicals routinely added to cigarettes. It is, of course (hi, Alice B.!), possible to ingest cannabis or take it sublingually, but smoking it makes it easier to titrate the dosage -- translation: it's easier to eat Way Too Much than it is to smoke too much. Signed, Medical Marijuana User With Asthma Who Hasn't Died Yet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:33:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: organize to mobilize MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The majority of the electorate just voted for a one-party system, which, when that party doesn't believe in democracy, is called a dictatorship. We'll see this emerging in the next few months. Entrenched power is very difficult to overturn without a bloody revolution, which none of us want. After all, besides the White House, Congress, and soon the courts; and besides most of the media, they also own the voting machines. We'll watch their moves, and see how much the millions of people who didn't vote for them will tolerate. This calls for a new American Poetry, much like the Third World has had for a long time. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Halvard Johnson" To: Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 8:41 AM Subject: Re: organize to mobilize > My guess is that the Republicans would only want to end filibustering > temporarily--i.e., until they're out of power, when, again, filibustering > would become a Good Thing. > > Hal Today's Special > Coyote's Engines > http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_featureartist_Coyote'sEngines.pdf > > Halvard Johnson > halvard@earthlink.net > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:06:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: pound's failure In-Reply-To: <1ec.2d99b970.2ec577fc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes I read these and it's a wonderful resource, I especially appreciate the different takes on some of these questions and explorations of various Cant-os. I think we're all variously in more or less agreement on this and just kicking up dust over the finer points. I grokked the slant of the question and that was the spirit in which I tried to answer it. No one who's a serious poet or plumber or anything can possibly avoid "failure" -- nor should it be avoided. Then it remains to define "failure" which is completely subjective. YES Pound failed but he saw a paradiso completely unattainable... what we are left with are the beautiful shards glimmering in the poems reflecting and refracting that paradise. I was really thinking of Keats. Endymion was a total failure by almost any standard and he could have easily packed it in ("Back to the shop, Johnny boy!" sd one critic). Even his brilliant successes of a few years later ("Eve of St. Agnes," the Odes, "Lamia") he hardly thought enough of to bother publishing. In a way you could say that any artist who doesn't set him or herself up to fail by reaching for unattainable goals is not worth bothering with. As for Lew Welch -- he was a known curmudgeon -- was unsatisfied with 90% of his own poetry and ripped most of it to shreds -- said that Keats had made a major mistake in his poem "La Belle Dame Sans Merci" by putting "No birds sing" instead of "No bird sings" and said of Pound that he had some marvelous ideas but "didn't leave us with any poetry, finally" which I put out there as one poet's take. I know there are others who share that notion, tho I'm not one of them. DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:21 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: pound's failure Did anyone bother to read the comments by Bacigalupo and Gibson at the referenced link? In the context of his personal project, Pound failed in his own eyes. The philosophical question should be whether his goal was attainable. That was the intended slant of the question. Defining success is definitely subjective, and happiness is certainly no indicator of anything other than being happy. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:28:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: pound's failure In-Reply-To: <20041112135408.GA8870@mail15c.boca15-verio.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I don't really think that IS the philosophical question, or the critical question. The question is more -- what DO the poems attain, what DO they achieve, and HOW do they achieve it, and HOW do they work? Whether or not the goal was attainable doesn't really say much about what value the poems have. Charles >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of >Mary Jo Malo >Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:21 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: pound's failure > >Did anyone bother to read the comments by >Bacigalupo and Gibson at the referenced link? In >the context of his personal project, Pound failed >in his own eyes. The philosophical question should >be whether his goal was attainable. That was the >intended slant of the question. Defining success >is definitely subjective, and happiness is >certainly no indicator of anything other than >being happy. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:08:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Smoking at readings & elsewhere In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Of course it's even easier to eat way too much after smoking even a little. Or so I'm told. Mark At 12:29 PM 11/12/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > I recall when I worked for Greenpeace *everyone* smoked. They gave me > > sh*t for buying a burger in a (gasp!) styrofoam container, then > > proceeded to dump carcinogens in their lungs & go on about how much > > pot they were going to smoke that night. > > >To be fair, there are ways to inhale pot (bong, vaporizer) more safely; >it takes less pot to catch the required buzz than it does tobacco, so pot >smokers inhale less total material; and nobody with even a single brain >cell left would ruin good bud with the kind of chemicals routinely added >to cigarettes. It is, of course (hi, Alice B.!), possible to ingest >cannabis or take it sublingually, but smoking it makes it easier to >titrate the dosage -- translation: it's easier to eat Way Too Much than it >is to smoke too much. > >Signed, Medical Marijuana User With Asthma Who Hasn't Died Yet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:37:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: ob In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PNGs harbor malicious executables: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5298999.html Images (especially PNGs) have always been used by spammers in emails to unleash viruses. It makes no sense whatsoever to send an email full of image links (especially PNGs + especially duplicates). What is wrong, Alan, with sending an HTML-resolving URL with your PNG images listed on that HTML page as an index? Why not get a webspace to host your 'art' instead of daily unsolicited direct-marketing to this list? Have you ever considered a blog as a personal publishing option? I enjoy being exposed to your artwork as much as any other but is there anything Alan Sondheim hasn't done (and posted to this list)? I think it asks too much from the listees to support your overexposure Alan (seriously). -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:56:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: pound's failure In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041112122401.01e1b7d8@mail.theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit charles hmmmm, well I don't know. I think your questions are approaching the unattainable in terms of getting answered in this forum -- and I'm not trying to be a smartass. Well, maybe a little bit. I took a semester-long course on Pound a year ago in which we deeply explored the Cantos and I feel like I'm barely prepared to begin speaking about "how they work," etc. I think Richard hit on something when he spoke about the fragmentary quality which was certainly deliberate, but there are many strains of approach at work here, from translation to "imagism" to "repitition in a finer tone" -- agh, too much for an e-mail. One approach might be to think about the ways in which Pound has affected those around him, from H.D. to Zukofsky to Creeley to Olsen to... on a separate note: I just went for a walk through our fair city to go to the bank and get a burrito and thought more about this question of "success/failure" and back to the "relevancy/irrelevancy" question I posed last week post-election with regards to poetry. This came from Diane di Prima and I thought I'd share it: [What I can offer is, all of it, from the poets. This is what comes to mind most often: "I am certain of nothing but the Holiness of the Heart's Affection and the Truth of the Imagination.. . . What the Imagination seizes as Beauty must be true, even if it never existed before." (John Keats) Peace. Diane di Prima] After the deep depression of last week, there's almost a sense of relief in knowing that one is engaged with a project the relevancy or irrelevancy of which will never be known during one's lifetime or perhaps at all. All notions of success or failure completely drop away when the project is conceived of in terms of a lifelong struggle, and even moreso when that struggle is situated in the context of all poets struggling at all times, continuously throughout history. In my own world, I know that presenting some piece of work has more to do with achieving a level of "failure" I'm comfortable with -- in other words this will never be what I hoped it would but working on it more will yield no further results -- the sense of satisfaction comes in feeling that one's done all one can with the material over time, not ever with the finished product itself. DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of charles alexander Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 11:29 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: pound's failure I don't really think that IS the philosophical question, or the critical question. The question is more -- what DO the poems attain, what DO they achieve, and HOW do they achieve it, and HOW do they work? Whether or not the goal was attainable doesn't really say much about what value the poems have. Charles >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo >Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:21 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: pound's failure > >Did anyone bother to read the comments by Bacigalupo and Gibson at the >referenced link? In the context of his personal project, Pound failed >in his own eyes. The philosophical question should be whether his goal >was attainable. That was the intended slant of the question. Defining >success is definitely subjective, and happiness is certainly no >indicator of anything other than being happy. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:07:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: ob MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > PNGs harbor malicious executables: > http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5298999.html > > Images (especially PNGs) have always been used by spammers in emails to > unleash viruses. It makes no sense whatsoever to send an email full of > image links (especially PNGs + especially duplicates). > > What is wrong, Alan, with sending an HTML-resolving URL with your PNG > images listed on that HTML page as an index? Why not get a webspace to > host your 'art' instead of daily unsolicited direct-marketing to this > list? Have you ever considered a blog as a personal publishing option? I > enjoy being exposed to your artwork as much as any other but is there > anything Alan Sondheim hasn't done (and posted to this list)? > > I think it asks too much from the listees to support your overexposure > Alan (seriously). > > -- Derek Hi Derek, I don't know what you're asking from Alan, unless it's to go away. I disagree, but that's OK, that's your perogative. However: "Spammers" don't send viruses; they send spam. Viruses are often attached to spam by other parties, but "spammers" are salespeople with no motive to destroy your computer. "Image links" are nothing but text. Of course it makes sense to send image links to this list. Raymond misdiagnosed whatever sort of problems he had, which is fine, no harm done, but no one should be expected to care, either. The strangeness of the missive made it obvious it was Alan, and not a virus impersonating him (I doubt that was his motive, just an unexpected advantage). There is a technological reason for Alan to consider using .jpgs instead of .pngs, but you didn't suggest that. .html files (I don't know what an "HTML-resolving URL" is supposed to be; if you mean http-resolving, his URLs were http-resolving) are potentially virus-vulnerable as well. Hope that helps, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:05:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: flora fair Subject: Nick Flynn? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Is Nick Flynn on this listserv? If so, could you backchannel me? Thanks, Flora __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:55:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: ob In-Reply-To: <000801c4c8f7$71e3fa60$8fe33c45@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" funny, we go through this every couple of years, an "alan please stop" thread with defenders and attackers of sondheim. i'm writing about sondheim now, and am addressing this very phenomenon, the cycle of anti-alanism that pops up. but the last one ("ah dear me") was fairly recent. i'm postulating that sondheim's compulsive posting is a diaspora poetics characteristic, part of a kind of exhaustiveness or excess that is at the same time always by necessity incomplete. it is part of what i'm calling an "ethical commitment to debris" rather than an effect of "lazy editing" or some other protestant-shame indicator of a fear of expressive excess. At 3:37 PM -0500 11/12/04, derekrogerson wrote: >PNGs harbor malicious executables: >http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5298999.html > >Images (especially PNGs) have always been used by spammers in emails to >unleash viruses. It makes no sense whatsoever to send an email full of >image links (especially PNGs + especially duplicates). > >What is wrong, Alan, with sending an HTML-resolving URL with your PNG >images listed on that HTML page as an index? Why not get a webspace to >host your 'art' instead of daily unsolicited direct-marketing to this >list? Have you ever considered a blog as a personal publishing option? I >enjoy being exposed to your artwork as much as any other but is there >anything Alan Sondheim hasn't done (and posted to this list)? > >I think it asks too much from the listees to support your overexposure >Alan (seriously). > > -- Derek -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:12:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: do In-Reply-To: <012501c4c904$011bfc80$220110ac@unlikelydesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jonathan wrote: ..| "Spammers" don't send viruses; they send spam Any unsolicited email is considered spam Jonathan. Viruses arriving via email are pretty much unsolicited. Come on now. Read the security article I thoughtfully included. ..| "Image links" are nothing but text Yes, but if users click on them they can execute malicious programs from the hosting server. This is the security risk. Please don't post claiming how knowledgeable email/web users are. Read the security article I thoughtfully included. ..| Raymond misdiagnosed whatever ..| sort of problems he had Raymond claimed his software was recognizing Alan's posts as a virus + his network crashed (presumably the network 'stopped' because a suspected virus carrier was found). There does not appear to be any misdiagnosis. (Imagine confusing Alan's work with a virus!!) Please read the security article I thoughtfully included. ..| I don't know what an "HTML-resolving URL" ..| is supposed to be An "HTML-resolving URL" is a URL which resolves to a hyper-text document (a .html extension) and not to an image (ie. a .png extension). HyperText documents have the advantage of being Mark-up Languages -- which means you can do all kinds of crazy stuff with them on your server and the list only needs to see one single URL. This is how the web works. Many people publicize their blogs and other activities on po-list in this unobtrusive and reasonable way. At some simple point it is just stupid not to ask someone to stop yelling in your ear. ..| I don't know what you're asking from Alan I'm asking Alan if it is necessary to post his work daily here while pointing out he his overexposed on this list. Yes, this is a question. Can Alan Sondheim exist outside of this po-list? Does he dare try something new? -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:17:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: ob In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Maria- The way you put this elicited a very pleasurable form of list nostalgia for me- and a fine opportunity to express appreciation for Sondheim's ongoing crucial work here- and in particular his recent post about the election that was so strongly responded to by a number of poetics bloggers. By the way, it was also pleasant to some long awaited synergy between the list and the blogs, and no surprise that Alan's work should be the lightning rod for this as well. Ah..."expressive excess." I wonder if' you've dubbed a new poetics movement here- * Excessivism* best wishes, Nick On 11/12/04 5:55 PM, "Maria Damon" wrote: > funny, we go through this every couple of years, an "alan please > stop" thread with defenders and attackers of sondheim. i'm writing > about sondheim now, and am addressing this very phenomenon, the cycle > of anti-alanism that pops up. but the last one ("ah dear me") was > fairly recent. i'm postulating that sondheim's compulsive posting is > a diaspora poetics characteristic, part of a kind of exhaustiveness > or excess that is at the same time always by necessity incomplete. it > is part of what i'm calling an "ethical commitment to debris" rather > than an effect of "lazy editing" or some other protestant-shame > indicator of a fear of expressive excess. > > At 3:37 PM -0500 11/12/04, derekrogerson wrote: >> PNGs harbor malicious executables: >> http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5298999.html >> >> Images (especially PNGs) have always been used by spammers in emails to >> unleash viruses. It makes no sense whatsoever to send an email full of >> image links (especially PNGs + especially duplicates). >> >> What is wrong, Alan, with sending an HTML-resolving URL with your PNG >> images listed on that HTML page as an index? Why not get a webspace to >> host your 'art' instead of daily unsolicited direct-marketing to this >> list? Have you ever considered a blog as a personal publishing option? I >> enjoy being exposed to your artwork as much as any other but is there >> anything Alan Sondheim hasn't done (and posted to this list)? >> >> I think it asks too much from the listees to support your overexposure >> Alan (seriously). >> >> -- Derek > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:27:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: ob In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" ah, the jew as lightning rod...reminds me of an essay i wrote on lenny bruce, which someone on the list helped steer toward "postmodern culture" for publication, i think it was juliana spahr; the list has an "impressive roster" of graduates... i owe a lot to the list, not the least of which is my introduction to sondheim's work, to piombino, vincent, and other poetics comrades, the flarf crowd (actually i knew gary s in mpls), and many other groovoids, trendoids and voidoids. At 6:17 PM -0500 11/12/04, Nick Piombino wrote: >Maria- > >The way you put this elicited a very >pleasurable form of list nostalgia for me- >and a fine opportunity to express >appreciation for Sondheim's ongoing crucial work here- >and in particular his recent post about the election >that was so strongly responded to by a number of poetics bloggers. >By the way, it was also pleasant to some >long awaited synergy between the list >and the blogs, and no surprise that Alan's >work should be the lightning rod for this as >well. > >Ah..."expressive excess." I wonder if' >you've dubbed a new poetics movement here- >* Excessivism* > >best wishes, >Nick > > > > >On 11/12/04 5:55 PM, "Maria Damon" wrote: > >> funny, we go through this every couple of years, an "alan please >> stop" thread with defenders and attackers of sondheim. i'm writing >> about sondheim now, and am addressing this very phenomenon, the cycle >> of anti-alanism that pops up. but the last one ("ah dear me") was >> fairly recent. i'm postulating that sondheim's compulsive posting is >> a diaspora poetics characteristic, part of a kind of exhaustiveness >> or excess that is at the same time always by necessity incomplete. it >> is part of what i'm calling an "ethical commitment to debris" rather >> than an effect of "lazy editing" or some other protestant-shame >> indicator of a fear of expressive excess. >> >> At 3:37 PM -0500 11/12/04, derekrogerson wrote: >>> PNGs harbor malicious executables: >>> http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5298999.html >>> >>> Images (especially PNGs) have always been used by spammers in emails to >>> unleash viruses. It makes no sense whatsoever to send an email full of >>> image links (especially PNGs + especially duplicates). >>> >>> What is wrong, Alan, with sending an HTML-resolving URL with your PNG >>> images listed on that HTML page as an index? Why not get a webspace to >>> host your 'art' instead of daily unsolicited direct-marketing to this >>> list? Have you ever considered a blog as a personal publishing option? I >>> enjoy being exposed to your artwork as much as any other but is there >>> anything Alan Sondheim hasn't done (and posted to this list)? >>> >>> I think it asks too much from the listees to support your overexposure > >> Alan (seriously). > >> > >> -- Derek > > > > > > -- -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:27:00 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: A Plot So Atrocious, If Unworthy of Atrée, Suits Thyeste Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed slightest hope, ashes in the upper rooms * fixed indecent the second I step fixed indent * and FROM rose FROM * breaking, ladies of servants wailing * though they bite, THEY though they bite * where! where... where! I want me! * he was was not * "How's "That's * why drag in Crébillon? * far quicker, ghastly last * rrrrrrrrrrrr WORMSWORK, — die blind, a picture, yes, rrrrrrrrrrrr o'er limited stretches ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:35:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Interport Migrated User Subject: Reading/Book Signing Reminder from Wanda Phipps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Drop by if you happen to be in the area and/or forward to you L.A. area friends if you like: PORTRAIT OF A BOOKSTORE Wanda Phipps, Reading & Book Signing Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004--3:30pm Portrait of a Bookstore 4360 Tujunga Avenue Studio City, California Coordinator: Donna DeLacy Info: 818-769-3853 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:43:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: FW: NY Times.com Article: Frank Rich: On 'Moral Values,' It's Blue in a Landslide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank Rich: On 'Moral Values,' It's Blue in a Landslide November 14, 2004 FAREWELL to Swift boats and "Shove it!," to Osama's tape and Saddam's missing weapons, to "security moms" and outsourced dads. They've all been sent to history's dustbin faster than Ralph Nader memorabilia was dumped on eBay. In their stead stands a single ambiguous phrase coined by an anonymous exit pollster: "Moral values." By near universal agreement the morning after, these two words tell the entire story of the election: it's the culture, stupid. "It really is Michael Moore versus Mel Gibson," said Newt Gingrich. To Jon Stewart, Nov. 2 was the red states' revenge on "Will & Grace." William Safire, speaking on "Meet the Press," called the Janet Jackson fracas "the social-political event of the past year." Karl Rove was of the same mind: "I think it's people who are concerned about the coarseness of our culture, about what they see on the television sets, what they see in the movies ..." And let's not even get started on the two most dreaded words in American comedy, regardless of your party affiliation: Whoopi Goldberg. There's only one problem with the storyline proclaiming that the country swung to the right on cultural issues in 2004. Like so many other narratives that immediately calcify into our 24/7 media's conventional wisdom, it is fiction. Everything about the election results - and about American culture itself - confirms an inescapable reality: John Kerry's defeat notwithstanding, it's blue America, not red, that is inexorably winning the culture war, and by a landslide. Kerry voters who have been flagellating themselves since Election Day with a vengeance worthy of "The Passion of the Christ" should wake up and smell the Chardonnay. The blue ascendancy is nearly as strong among Republicans as it is among Democrats. Those whose "moral values" are invested in cultural heroes like the accused loofah fetishist Bill O'Reilly and the self-gratifying drug consumer Rush Limbaugh are surely joking when they turn apoplectic over MTV. William Bennett's name is now as synonymous with Las Vegas as silicone. The Democrats' Ashton Kutcher is trumped by the Republicans' Britney Spears. Excess and vulgarity, as always, enjoy a vast, bipartisan constituency, and in a democracy no political party will ever stamp them out. If anyone is laughing all the way to the bank this election year, it must be the undisputed king of the red cultural elite, Rupert Murdoch. Fox News is a rising profit center within his News Corporation, and each red-state dollar that it makes can be plowed back into the rest of Fox's very blue entertainment portfolio. The Murdoch cultural stable includes recent books like Jenna Jameson's "How to Make Love Like a Porn Star" and the Vivid Girls' "How to Have a XXX Sex Life," which have both been synergistically, even joyously, promoted on Fox News by willing hosts like Rita Cosby and, needless to say, Mr. O'Reilly. There are "real fun parts and exciting parts," said Ms. Cosby to Ms. Jameson on Fox News's "Big Story Weekend," an encounter broadcast on Saturday at 9 p.m., assuring its maximum exposure to unsupervised kids. Almost unnoticed in the final weeks of the campaign was the record government indecency fine levied against another prime-time Fox television product, "Married by America." The $1.2 million bill, a mere bagatelle to Murdoch stockholders, was more than twice the punishment inflicted on Viacom for Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction." According to the F.C.C. complaint, one episode in this heterosexual marriage-promoting reality show included scenes in which "partygoers lick whipped cream from strippers' bodies," and two female strippers "playfully spank" a man on all fours in his underwear. "Married by America" is gone now, but Fox remains the go-to network for Paris Hilton ("The Simple Life") and wife-swapping ("Trading Spouses: Meet Your New Mommy"). None of this has prompted an uprising from the red-state Fox News loyalists supposedly so preoccupied with "moral values." They all gladly contribute fungible dollars to Fox culture by boosting their fair-and-balanced channel's rise in the ratings. Some of these red staters may want to make love like porn stars besides. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) An ABC News poll two weeks before the election found that more Republicans than Democrats enjoy sex "a great deal." The Democrats' new hero, Illinois Senator-elect Barack Obama, was assured victory once his original, ostentatiously pious Republican opponent, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race rather than defend his taste for "avant-garde" sex clubs. The 22 percent of voters who told pollsters that "moral values" were their top election issue - 79 percent of whom voted for Bush-Cheney - corresponds almost exactly to the number of voters (23 percent) who describe themselves as born-again or evangelical Christians. They are entitled to their culture, too, and their own entertainment industry. And their own show-biz scandals. The Los Angeles Times reported this summer that Paul Crouch, the evangelist who founded the largest Christian network, Trinity Broadcasting Network, vehemently denied a former employee's accusation that the two had had a homosexual encounter - though not before paying the employee a $425,000 settlement. Not so incidentally, Trinity joined Gary Bauer and Fox News as prime movers in "Redeem the Vote," the Christian-rock alternative to MTV's "Rock the Vote." But the distance between this hard-core red culture and the majority blue culture is perhaps best captured by Tom Coburn, the newly elected Republican senator from Oklahoma, lately famous for discovering "rampant" lesbianism in that state's schools. As a congressman in 1997, Mr. Coburn attacked NBC for encouraging "irresponsible sexual behavior" and taking "network TV to an all-time low with full frontal nudity, violence and profanity being shown in our homes." The broadcast that prompted his outrage on behalf of "parents and decent-minded individuals everywhere" was the network's prime-time showing of Steven Spielberg's "Schindler's List." It's in the G.O.P.'s interest to pander to this far-right constituency - votes are votes - but you can be certain that a party joined at the hip to much of corporate America, Mr. Murdoch included, will take no action to curtail the blue culture these voters deplore. As Marshall Wittman, an independent-minded former associate of both Ralph Reed and John McCain, wrote before the election, "The only things the religious conservatives get are largely symbolic votes on proposals guaranteed to fail, such as the gay marriage constitutional amendment." That amendment has never had a prayer of rounding up the two-thirds majority needed for passage and still doesn't. Mr. Wittman echoes Thomas Frank, the author of "What's the Matter With Kansas?," by common consent the year's most prescient political book. "Values," Mr. Frank writes, "always take a backseat to the needs of money once the elections are won." Under this perennial "trick," as he calls it, Republican politicians promise to stop abortion and force the culture industry "to clean up its act" - until the votes are counted. Then they return to their higher priorities, like cutting capital gains and estate taxes. Mr. Murdoch and his fellow cultural barons - from Sumner Redstone, the Bush-endorsing C.E.O. of Viacom, to Richard Parsons, the Republican C.E.O. of Time Warner, to Jeffrey Immelt, the Bush-contributing C.E.O. of G.E. (NBC Universal) - are about to be rewarded not just with more tax breaks but also with deregulatory goodies increasing their power to market salacious entertainment. It's they, not Susan Sarandon and Bruce Springsteen, who actually set the cultural agenda Gary Bauer and company say they despise. But it's not only the G.O.P.'s fealty to its financial backers that is predictive of how little cultural bang the "values" voters will get for their Bush-Cheney votes. At 78 percent, the nonvalues voters have far more votes than they do, and both parties will cater to that overwhelming majority's blue tastes first and last. Their mandate is clear: The same poll that clocked "moral values" partisans at 22 percent of the electorate found that nearly three times as many Americans approve of some form of legal status for gay couples, whether civil unions (35 percent) or marriage (27 percent). Do the math and you'll find that the poll also shows that for all the G.O.P.'s efforts to court Jews, the total number of Jewish Republican voters in 2004, while up from 2000, was still some 200,000 less than the number of gay Republican voters. When Robert Novak writes after the election that "the anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, socially conservative agenda is ascendant, and the G.O.P. will not abandon it anytime soon," you have to wonder what drug he is on. The abandonment began at the convention. Sam Brownback, the Kansas senator who champions the religious right, was locked away in an off-camera rally across town from Madison Square Garden. Prime time was bestowed upon the three biggest stars in post-Bush Republican politics: Rudy Giuliani, John McCain and Arnold Schwarzenegger. All are supporters of gay rights and opponents of the same-sex marriage constitutional amendment. Only Mr. McCain calls himself pro-life, and he's never made abortion a cause. None of the three support the Bush administration position on stem-cell research. When the No. 1 "moral values" movie star, Mel Gibson, condemned the Schwarzenegger-endorsed California ballot initiative expanding and financing stem-cell research, the governor and voters crushed him like a girlie-man. The measure carried by 59 percent, which is consistent with national polling on the issue. If the Republican party's next round of leaders are all cool with blue culture, why should Democrats run after the red? Received Washington wisdom has it that the only Democrat who will ever be able to win a national election must be a cross between Gomer Pyle and Billy Sunday - a Scripture-quoting Sun Belt exurbanite whose loyalty to Nascar does not extend to Dale Earnhardt Jr., who was fined last month for saying a four-letter word on television. According to this argument, the values voters the Democrats must pander to are people like Cary and Tara Leslie, archetypal Ohio evangelical "Bush votes come to life" apotheosized by The Washington Post right after Election Day. The Leslies swear by "moral absolutes," support a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage and mostly watch Fox News. Mr. Leslie has also watched his income drop from $55,000 to $35,000 since 2001, forcing himself, his wife and his three young children into the ranks of what he calls the "working poor." Maybe by 2008 some Democrat will figure out how to persuade him that it might be a higher moral value to worry about the future of his own family than some gay family he hasn't even met. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/14/arts/14rich.html?ex=1101224751&ei=1&en= ddc698b5bd0e51e7 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:02:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: do MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Derek, m'man, I did spam, viruses, and networks for a living for six years. You can take any tone you want, but you've defined the Social Security Administration (not to mention InterNIC) as a spammer and told me that Raymond's "network" was "crashed" by a 2k text document. I am insufficiently ignorant to have this discussion with you, and I have no need to humor you. Thanks anyway. > ..| I don't know what you're asking from Alan > > I'm asking Alan if it is necessary to post his work daily here while > pointing out he his overexposed on this list. Yes, this is a question. > Can Alan Sondheim exist outside of this po-list? Does he dare try > something new? Oh, that's fine. Rage, rage against the machine there, I'm down with that. But please refrain from spreading factual ignorance of technology while you do it. I *hate* factual ignorance of technology. Bad taste, hey, preach it, that's what a poetics list is all about. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:18:45 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: making a measure of success MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This evening as I was waiting for my youngest daughter, who was attending her volleyball awards ceremony, I tried to put into words my take on failure and success. I understand Diane di Prima's path. I respect Ezra Pound's and Laura Riding's projects. Don't necessarily like all their poetry or some of their politics, but I admire anyone who believes in human dignity and potential. We all fail a bit and succeed some, but this is as good as it gets so far. Each story is different. ---------- which scene did I make? the one that I made you can't take it out of me me out of it no scene no me first, it's shaped by others then you escape and flow into his other-worded spaces grow yourself a home to last, because you want it you make it recipe for loving ideas 'cause people let you down snatch yourself a poet get knocked up first accidental choice make mistake six more times doesn't appear this green bed appeals to most others blue collar hands full of making all nighter utopian daydreams poetry adventures laughter intimacy beyond measure welding burned arthritic calloused he sucks my full milky breasts and he comes deep inside me just a woman who wanted it all so much new life such a kind and lovely failure Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:30:35 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: ob MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Periodic anti-alan is one of the continuities in the list. This is an honor=20 to him, one of poetry's underlying pulses. "Ethical commitment to debris" wh= at=20 a great, suggestive phrase. Murat In a message dated 11/12/04 5:55:29 PM, damon001@UMN.EDU writes: > funny, we go through this every couple of years, an "alan please > stop" thread with defenders and attackers of sondheim. i'm writing > about sondheim now, and am addressing this very phenomenon, the cycle > of anti-alanism that pops up.=A0 but the last one ("ah dear me") was > fairly recent.=A0 i'm postulating that sondheim's compulsive posting is > a diaspora poetics characteristic, part of a kind of exhaustiveness > or excess that is at the same time always by necessity incomplete. it > is part of what i'm calling an "ethical commitment to debris" rather > than an effect of "lazy editing" or some other protestant-shame > indicator of a fear of expressive excess. >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:09:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: difference between one sort of object and another MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed difference between one sort of object and another 1 ftp asondheim.org 2 ls 3 strings object1.png > aa 4 strings object2.png > bb 5 diff aa bb > cc 6 wc cc 7 pico cc 8 h 3,32c3,16 < +F J < Py C < %gX& < .g2, < '2CR% < 0D`1i0T < 1",M: < i@$6 < hV[1 < QtcClC < CEk < y+UZe_ < P|ZtY < oJ^-9 < L.$&G < k?7z < i.Di < Yk)* < eHs; < Ouuu > l(bfC > q"3$ > -4 bf > ^RFz > +$S* > C`&*?$ > KpWW9 > Yki* > %ffY@ > 0~&8 > 'Y-k > eM_W > -Gl@@jW' 34,46c18,27 < FE\; < MbA} < Ef,9? < DUc < ~-+V < ca(h < B@(| < wx3= < Tf`g < PRNL < )Y}^ < ~@~'@ < 3cY, --- > 6&jc > 5:{/ > t=PYj > 7,z.x > Xr~& > },+V > )KJh! > h (B) > 5]}_ 48,110c29,126 < VH~-T < Qj'J < .~$d < n9kY < Y~Z6 < J$gt6 < mdr9 < UP5x < ("\\ < ;5O& < EteQer < i5}? < q>KS < nc%: < YPM+ < O,h1 < (MIS5 < ZQ[A < Lj+h < xN$T < ',hE < fogu_ < )r\7 < O5}$ < ~0n; < fA5}_NX < YP#}/N[ < aJU5 < unq\< < VA;6 < .SA+ < NhCG < n|zWn;3 < `#}5M5 < opB# < rT)4}< < CPAo < :[f < Xh[8 < k6SnA < J8]1 < Kzuu < vRNP} < v0JA < |>_}I < X}IW_V < )5($ < iZ*8 < ]fus < %D5q < f7yr < IDATDQ < s,>r < 0\~^ < Hyg> < ,cf^3 < npyI < t{x,A5B < Vl9< < r;0_ < y[,W < {9n@ < Y~^,? --- > (mte > Iv#h > sQ$R > GQ48 > wK;d > !W29 > 2jnkcs > 8WXD\c > VInP) > PA+A > _mOt > |e%7 > *h%(T > PA+A > *h%(T > PA+A > *h%(T > PA+A > *h%(T > PA+A > 3(<@5 > Zh%(T > PA+A > *h%(T > PA+A > *h%( > `W?, > U5+% > PA+A > *h%(T > PA+A > PA+A > YP#} > PA+A > ,sPwr+ > 7ysa > z>?/X > PA+A > H?5*h%(T > _D#_ > ?St+/O > k9d5 > j7x^ > PA+A > kc%` > *h%(T > *h%(T > PA+A > B%(T > *h%(T > PA+A > *h%(T > PA+A > *h%(T > PA+A > *h%(T > PA+A > *h%(T > PA+A > *h%(T > PA+A > *h%(T > PA+A > uAGq > RAT#" > <+V+> > pQ0' > Z|]D > qQlN > ?Vt: > +:jK= > jIt4*. > 8>== > V?V' > =3c< > obf^ > F#], > Y]\j > IDAT|urrB > ,[~_ > g)f- > '''dh > */uz > h"\# > kVw] > W&So > UMSR > xs@*u > dYFD > F#^s > [r/J > V4M5 > CRoRtt > c".@G > (=M[ > Av|u: > P#iH 14 diff object1.png object2.png > dd Binary files object1.png and object2.png differ _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:08:10 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:09:43 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mid nite...drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:44:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Taylor Subject: Audio files please help MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I'm surfing through this mess of tangled wires hoping to hang a few audio poetry lines on our web site and I need you help. Could you recommend a few good poetic audio sites? I'm looking for poems read by the original authors. Please send your suggestions to Jesse@SpiralBridge.org Thank you kindly stranger. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:53:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: op In-Reply-To: <019e01c4c935$9d2edbc0$220110ac@unlikelydesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://google.com/search?&q=spammers+virus Jonathan, you are just being silly. Yes spamming can and does involve viruses. How do you think viruses reach your computer? I'm not going to play a childish game with you. There's a link-> I too have worked several years in the IT industry. Look it up. I didn't ask you to jump onto this conversation and it is obvious why you did -- to stop talking. Mission accomplished adieu Jonathan mR. Expert Meanwhile, 'debris' and 'excess' go the way of pervasive advertising, I suppose. -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:44:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: ob In-Reply-To: <000801c4c8f7$71e3fa60$8fe33c45@satellite> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hey derek! i'd like to suggest that you better acquaint yourself with alan's Work if it's not too daunting for you. best, hassen *& next time, how about not speaking for 'listees' (seriously) On 11/12/04 3:37 PM, "derekrogerson" wrote: > > PNGs harbor malicious executables: > http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5298999.html > > Images (especially PNGs) have always been used by spammers in emails to > unleash viruses. It makes no sense whatsoever to send an email full of > image links (especially PNGs + especially duplicates). > > What is wrong, Alan, with sending an HTML-resolving URL with your PNG > images listed on that HTML page as an index? Why not get a webspace to > host your 'art' instead of daily unsolicited direct-marketing to this > list? Have you ever considered a blog as a personal publishing option? I > enjoy being exposed to your artwork as much as any other but is there > anything Alan Sondheim hasn't done (and posted to this list)? > > I think it asks too much from the listees to support your overexposure > Alan (seriously). > > -- Derek > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:04:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: ob In-Reply-To: <1f4.250b28c.2ec6e7eb@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I am struck by the opposite notion, that is a "counter-commitment to (making) ethical debris." Such as the current Administration's trail thereof (contra-convening the Genena Accords on torture, right to trials, etc.,) and then nominating the man responsible for 're-constructing' the language to support those contraventions to be the Nation's next Attorney General. Bit spooky, I think, making a sport of turning the Constitution into "ethical debris." Hate to sound so Protestant! But if Alan's commitment is to waging war here, keep shoveling the debris, Alan, jpeg by jpeg. & may this list continue to be one of your wheelbarrows. It'll be nice to ultimately see a rebuilt foundation. But, I assume, beyond the work of Alan, that's the work of everybody. =20 Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > Periodic anti-alan is one of the continuities in the list. This is an hon= or > to him, one of poetry's underlying pulses. "Ethical commitment to debris"= what > a great, suggestive phrase. >=20 > Murat >=20 >=20 > In a message dated 11/12/04 5:55:29 PM, damon001@UMN.EDU writes: >=20 >=20 >> funny, we go through this every couple of years, an "alan please >> stop" thread with defenders and attackers of sondheim. i'm writing >> about sondheim now, and am addressing this very phenomenon, the cycle >> of anti-alanism that pops up.=A0 but the last one ("ah dear me") was >> fairly recent.=A0 i'm postulating that sondheim's compulsive posting is >> a diaspora poetics characteristic, part of a kind of exhaustiveness >> or excess that is at the same time always by necessity incomplete. it >> is part of what i'm calling an "ethical commitment to debris" rather >> than an effect of "lazy editing" or some other protestant-shame >> indicator of a fear of expressive excess. >>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:17:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: Zukofsky Errata Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Curious if anyone has the errata sheet included in later copies of An Objectivists Anthology. edited by Louis Zukofsky. Would you be willing to scan and send. thanks, n ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:41:47 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: Audio files please help In-Reply-To: <015301c4ca0d$073c8990$b0d45443@Jesse> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://live-wirez.gu.edu.au/Staff/Komninos/Cyber/hscpoems/jukebox.html also http://www.poetinresidence.com/ cheers komninos komninos zervos lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major School of Arts Griffith University Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 Gold Coast Campus Parkwood PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre Queensland 9726 Australia Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of Jesse Taylor |||Sent: Sunday, 14 November 2004 3:45 PM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: Audio files please help ||| |||I'm surfing through this mess of tangled wires hoping to hang a few |||audio poetry lines on our web site and I need you help. ||| |||Could you recommend a few good poetic audio sites? ||| |||I'm looking for poems read by the original authors. ||| |||Please send your suggestions to Jesse@SpiralBridge.org ||| |||Thank you kindly stranger. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 07:04:15 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Prepare for new Bush policies Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed PREPARE FOR NEW BUSH POLICIES after Senate outlaws all dissent by changing filibustering rules so Democrats and the American people can no longer question --to destroy all rule of law --to dismantle NPR, PBS --to legalize discrimination -- to opt for school vouchers to segregate our students --to destroy Social Security --to allow torture of prisoners --to outlaw abortion --to enforce mental "tests" Bush: "this will happen to ensure our safety and establish a "culture of life"..." http://boistering.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 06:25:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: call for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm spreading this information at the request of Randall Karlen Rogers: -- The Beatnik Cowboy David Solomon, Assistant Editor Box 603 Mail Box ETC. 221/19 M.5.T. Nakleay A. Banglamung Chonburi Thailand 20150 Seeks Beat style poetry and artwork. Sample copy for four ($4) USD, subscriptions $25 USD. Be sure to send a SAE and IRCs (international reply coupons) so we can send rejected material back. We accept e-mail submissions as Word attachment; send to randall_ro@Yahoo.com We are looking for poems! -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:28:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: The Commodificaton of the Writer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The commodification of a literary figure usually means the author has been accepted into the American Mainstream culture. Commodification usually means the literary lion has lost its teeth and should only appear in ads for graham crackers in milk. To my knowledge, there have been only two exceptions to this rule: William Burroughs, who may or may not have actually worn Nikes; and (taa-daa) me. I can't say that I've achieved commodification through my work as a poet. Rather, it's my fiction that has brought me what many would consider the kiss of death. In this case, it's a breath of life. Jonathan Penton, the irreverent editor of Unlikely Stories (www.unlikelystories.org) has commodified me by creating an entire product line from my novel COMMERCIAL FICTION. If you haven't read the book, you can purchase it through your online bookseller or read it online at: http://www.unlikelystories.org/cgi_bin/fcp.pl?words=commercial+fiction&wt=ew &bl=or&d=/frazer0604.shtml If you find you're not up to the challenge of reading COMMERICAL FICTION (the foremost being not to fall onto the floor while writhing with laughter), you don't have to exhaust yourself by actually reading my work. Instead, you can relax with your choice of COMMERCIAL FICTI0N T-shirts, coffee mugs, tote bags, thong underwear (with my name on them. Does this make me a HOT commodity?) and anything other product that bears the stamp of my name, the book's title and the dubious motto that the villain, a professional Role Model, lives up to in extraordinary ways Just click on http://www.cafepress.com/unlikely2/419388 and place your order. NOW! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:32:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Memory Babe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vernon, What did you think of Nicosia's Memory Babe? I think you were mentioned in it too. Mary ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 07:41:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: The Commodificaton of the Writer - shorter URL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.unlikelystories.org/frazer0604.shtml will also get you to Commercial Fiction. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vernon Frazer" To: Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:28 AM Subject: The Commodificaton of the Writer > The commodification of a literary figure usually means the author has been > accepted into the American Mainstream culture. Commodification usually means > the literary lion has lost its teeth and should only appear in ads for > graham crackers in milk. To my knowledge, there have been only two > exceptions to this rule: William Burroughs, who may or may not have actually > worn Nikes; and > > (taa-daa) > > > > me. > > > I can't say that I've achieved commodification through my work as a poet. > Rather, it's my fiction that has brought me what many would consider the > kiss of death. In this case, it's a breath of life. > > Jonathan Penton, the irreverent editor of Unlikely Stories > (www.unlikelystories.org) has commodified me by creating an entire product > line from my novel COMMERCIAL FICTION. If you haven't read the book, you can > purchase it through your online bookseller or read it online at: > > > http://www.unlikelystories.org/cgi_bin/fcp.pl?words=commercial+fiction&wt=ew > &bl=or&d=/frazer0604.shtml > > If you find you're not up to the challenge of reading COMMERICAL FICTION > (the foremost being not to fall onto the floor while writhing with > laughter), you don't have to exhaust yourself by actually reading my work. > Instead, you can relax with your choice of COMMERCIAL FICTI0N T-shirts, > coffee mugs, tote bags, thong underwear (with my name on them. Does this > make me a HOT commodity?) and anything other product that bears the stamp of > my name, the book's title and the dubious motto that the villain, a > professional Role Model, lives up to in extraordinary ways > > Just click on http://www.cafepress.com/unlikely2/419388 and place your > order. NOW! > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:59:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Memory Babe In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mary, I think Memory Babe is the best Kerouac biography I've read. I've read other excellent Kerouac biographies since then, but Memory Babe gave me a sense of Kerouac as a person that the others haven't given me. I wasn't mentioned in the biography. Even though my path in Connecticut overlapped Kerouac's---the girl in the bushes incident near Pratt & Whitney happened not far from my house in East Hartford and I once attended a party in an apartment building I think he lived in---he was there four or five years before I was born, so Nicosia had no reason to include me. My guess is that you're thinking of Bonnie Frazer, Ray Bremser's wife. Best, Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:32 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Memory Babe Vernon, What did you think of Nicosia's Memory Babe? I think you were mentioned in it too. Mary ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:04:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Reading/Book Signing Reminder from Wanda Phipps In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is a really lovely brick patio under a tree -- a bit hard to find -- get to the bookstore through Aroma Caf=E9, or there's "parking in rear" off an alley. It's raining! Drop by if you happen to be in the area and/or forward to you L.A. area friends if you like: PORTRAIT OF A BOOKSTORE Wanda Phipps, Reading & Book Signing Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004--3:30pm Portrait of a Bookstore 4360 Tujunga Avenue Studio City, California Coordinator: Donna DeLacy Info: 818-769-3853 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:19:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: great art / loft studio sublet, LA / Inglewood, CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm going to teach in Tennessee for one semester, so: Live/work studio for sublet from January 1 to May 10, $800 a month. Studio is 1560 square feet: 26' x 60', with 16 foot ceilings and large double doors to the outside. You would get 2 parking spots. No pets. Building is located on La Brea, between Slausen and Centinela, in a nice safe neighborhood. (short 10 minute drive to UCLA Warner building, LAX, and the beach). Kitchen is remedial at best and there is no heat. or, 1/2 the studio could be yours, actually 26' x 25' for work space only, 24 hours access, at $500 a month. If you are interested, please e-mail Kristin at ramology@msn.com. sincerely, Kristin Calabrese www.kristincalabrese.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 15:08:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: bo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ....| I think it asks too much from the listees ....| to support your overexposure Alan (seriously). ..| *& next time, how about not ..| speaking for 'listees' (seriously) Hi hassen! I didn't speak for anybody but myself obviously. I said what I thought which is no one's opinion or words but my own. Next time, I would ask, that you, hassen, better acquaint yourself with what actually has happened as opposed to your cherished memories of the event. As far as Alan's work, what's there to say beyond authorship? I am willing to concede this is the entire point of A.S.'s work. -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:54:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Professions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I believe Coach Dean Smith taught me as much about life and how to live it as Michael Stipe. Esther, nee Madonna Ciccone taught me about saying it. rmc -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:07:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: bo In-Reply-To: <000001c4c9bc$98d8b4b0$97e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The entire point of my work is authorship? The _point_ of it? I'm not On Kawara and in _that_ sense I'm not even alive. I identify with Lucy in Dracula after the blood-sucking. - Alan recent http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/files/ recent related to WVU http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm partial mirror at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:16:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Watten/Harryman at Green Integer salon, November 21 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Barrett Watten and Carla Harryman Green Integer Salon November 21, 2004; 4:00 p.m. Copies of Progress/Under Erasure, by Barrett Watten=97just published by= Green=20 Integer=97will be available. The Green Integer edition re-represents two=20 book-length experimental poems from the 1980s and 1990s, with a new=20 introduction by the author. Barrett Watten and Carla Harryman will read from their work. Both Harryman= =20 and Watten are among the most noted of San Francisco =93Language=94 writers,= =20 both currently teaching at Wayne State University in Detroit. Watten has=20 just won the Ren=E9 Wellek Prize for his The Constructivist Moment: From=20 Material Text to Cultural Poetics, published by Wesleyan University Press=20 in 2003. Green Integer's address is 6022 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 200A, Los Angeles. Parking is available behind the building All are welcome! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:10:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: poetry of omission or erasure In-Reply-To: <001d01c4a292$7d2024c0$8bf4a8c0@netserver> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a bit slow on this David, but before i erase the backlog: all writing DOES involve 'editing' (a something from a potential=20 everything) and 'recontextualization' - whether you like the term or=20 not it means what it says something taken from one context to another.=20= In this case a word or words are put where they were not before.=20 Editing achieves recontextualisation also, they are interlinked no? In=20= terms of making a linguistic assemblage. On Sep 24, 2004, at 7:59 PM, david.bircumshaw wrote: >> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cris cheek" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 5:18 PM > Subject: Re: poetry of omission or erasure > > > all writing involves editing and recontextualisation > > On Sep 24, 2004, at 11:21 AM, david.bircumshaw wrote: > >>> By definition any manner of writing constraint would require=20 >>> omissions >>> of one sort or another. > > Sorry, cris, 'david.bircumshaw' didn't write that, it's mIEKAL=20 > (omitted and erased!) you quote. > > I did say that mIEKAL's point had crossed my mind when I first saw the=20= > thread. As for your point, > h'm, I'd say writing +can+ involve etc. I certainly couldn't agree=20 > that ALL writing involves > editing and recontextualisation (ugh, ugly management-speaky kind of=20= > word, don't like, nasty!). > I haven't any objection to either process but can only end up with a=20= > statement like: > > 'writing may or may not involve editing and that other word' which=20 > isn't really worth saying > anyhow. What I'm interested in is what people are using tactics of=20 > 'omission and erasure' for, > I'd like to know more about the raison d'=EAtre of the undoubtedly=20 > interesting US works that > have been mentioned most of which I do have access to. I know why I=20 > use 'recontext' (God, > I dislike that word so much I can't even finish it) when I use the=20 > tactic but it'd be interesting > to know what the why of it is elsewhere. Without jargon, anyone,=20 > please. > > Best > > Dave > > > > > > > David Bircumshaw > > Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet > & Painting Without Numbers > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:14:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: For Iris Chang MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed If this were a suicide note, I would leave you my all. You would hear my voice in it, you would speak me as I have spoken to you, for the last time, and the words, the words would resonate in familiar tones uniquely my own. You would hear the silence after the speaking, and you would hear nothing else, nothing from me, but these words, over and over again. You might speak, but I would not hear. You might reach out to me, but I would not be there. I would not have known your new day, or the way you would read these lines, or even the smallest, simplest word, you might say, upon their completion. Such sadness, such anger, would not be mine, would not be of me, would not be anywhere. If this were a suicide note, you would read the lines and read between them, and even if I explained, you would look for a clue, for anything, that might give you guidance in these dark times. And I would not know what you have found, or the truth of it. I would not know your longing or your speech, or the day after the restless night, or the day after that. You would read these lines, perhaps, hearing me ever more distant, losing the accent, the intonation, the last intonation and the last accent, losing everything of me as time passed, as you passed as well. What of the next week, the next Thursday, the next Tuesday, the next 3 a.m. in the morning. What of the page and the paper, what of my tears perhaps, my despair perhaps, and my voice ever so longing as you would be longing, fading from the letters, peeled from them. You might speak, and I would not hear, and you might whisper to yourself, and I would not be beside you. You might call out my name, and I would be nowhere, and I would be nowhere and nowhere and nowhere. Perhaps you would want this note to never end, my voice to never end, but there is the passing, not of your choosing, but as if it were mine. And you would hear me, and you would not hear me. And longer, and you would not hear me. And longer, and there would be so much I would want to say, so that my voice would once again be lively and just so, just a speaking of something, perhaps, that we have seen or heard, something we have shared in common, or that our voices makes commons of us. Perhaps a sigh or even the uncanny silence of a smile, perhaps the silence still. For Iris Chang ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:28:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: poetry of omission or erasure Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 speaking of erasures... i write almost exclusively on a pc and all erasures= are "virtual" so there's no record of it. this somehow creeps into my writ= ing but doesn't recontextualize it. or does it? that ghost is truly a ghost= in the sense that it only happened to me - the boy who cried wolf so to sp= eak, without the wolf and without the acknowledged cry. nothing but the 'fi= nished' text (let's not get into that "is the text ever finished" crap...) anyway, what was my point? ----- Original Message ----- From: cris cheek To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: poetry of omission or erasure Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:10:59 -0500 Re:=20 Re: a bit slow on this David, but before i erase the backlog: Re:=20 Re: all writing DOES involve 'editing' (a something from a potential=20 Re: everything) and 'recontextualization' - whether you like the term or=20 Re: not it means what it says something taken from one context to another.= =20 Re: In this case a word or words are put where they were not before.=20 Re: Editing achieves recontextualisation also, they are interlinked no? In= =20 Re: terms of making a linguistic assemblage. Re:=20 Re:=20 Re: On Sep 24, 2004, at 7:59 PM, david.bircumshaw wrote: Re:=20 Re: >> ----- Original Message ----- Re: > From: "cris cheek" Re: > To: Re: > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 5:18 PM Re: > Subject: Re: poetry of omission or erasure Re: > Re: > Re: > all writing involves editing and recontextualisation Re: > Re: > On Sep 24, 2004, at 11:21 AM, david.bircumshaw wrote: Re: > Re: >>> By definition any manner of writing constraint would require=20 Re: >>> omissions Re: >>> of one sort or another. Re: > Re: > Sorry, cris, 'david.bircumshaw' didn't write that, it's mIEKAL=20 Re: > (omitted and erased!) you quote. Re: > Re: > I did say that mIEKAL's point had crossed my mind when I first saw th= e=20 Re: > thread. As for your point, Re: > h'm, I'd say writing +can+ involve etc. I certainly couldn't agree=20 Re: > that ALL writing involves Re: > editing and recontextualisation (ugh, ugly management-speaky kind of= =20 Re: > word, don't like, nasty!). Re: > I haven't any objection to either process but can only end up with a= =20 Re: > statement like: Re: > Re: > 'writing may or may not involve editing and that other word' which=20 Re: > isn't really worth saying Re: > anyhow. What I'm interested in is what people are using tactics of=20 Re: > 'omission and erasure' for, Re: > I'd like to know more about the raison d'=EAtre of the undoubtedly=20 Re: > interesting US works that Re: > have been mentioned most of which I do have access to. I know why I= =20 Re: > use 'recontext' (God, Re: > I dislike that word so much I can't even finish it) when I use the=20 Re: > tactic but it'd be interesting Re: > to know what the why of it is elsewhere. Without jargon, anyone,=20 Re: > please. Re: > Re: > Best Re: > Re: > Dave Re: > Re: > Re: > Re: > Re: > Re: > Re: > David Bircumshaw Re: > Re: > Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet Re: > & Painting Without Numbers Re: > Re: > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ Re: > Re:=20 --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:52:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Scary TIPS Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Allison Croggon shared this article on another listserv regarding the TIPS program to engage 4% of the USA population as informants as part of Homelan= d Security operations! The writer of the article seems a credible source I am sure many of us - if not all - will find this news frightening and and a program that must be fought. Indeed, what kind of creative responses or public education can be initiated to stop a new 'counter-community presence= ' that might - in terms of democratic rights - be comparable to the devastation wrought by the invasion of a computer virus? Anybody got good ideas for a preventive "patch"? How to to start a public campaign to neutralize the idea of even becoming a snitch? Back to 1950 and got the Joe McCarthy blues again! Oy! Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/14/1026185141232.html?from=3Dtop5 US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies By=A0Ritt Goldstein=20 July 15 2002=20 The Bush Administration aims to recruit millions of United States citizens as domestic informants in a program likely to alarm civil liberties groups. The Terrorism Information and Prevention System, or TIPS, means the US will have a higher percentage of citizen informants than the former East Germany through the infamous Stasi secret police. The program would use a minimum o= f 4 per cent of Americans to report "suspicious activity". Civil liberties groups have already warned that, with the passage earlier this year of the Patriot Act, there is potential for abusive, large-scale investigations of US citizens. As with the Patriot Act, TIPS is being pursued as part of the so-called war against terrorism. It is a Department of Justice project. Highlighting the scope of the surveillance network, TIPS volunteers are being recruited primarily from among those whose work provides access to homes, businesses or transport systems. Letter carriers, utility employees, truck drivers and train conductors are among those named as targeted recruits.=20 A pilot program, described on the government Web site www.citizencorps.gov, is scheduled to start next month in 10 cities, with 1 million informants participating in the first stage. Assuming the program is initiated in the 10 largest US cities, that will be 1 million informants for a total population of almost 24 million, or one in 24 people. Historically, informant systems have been the tools of non-democratic states. According to a 1992 report by Harvard University's Project on Justice, the accuracy of informant reports is problematic, with some informants having embellished the truth, and others suspected of having fabricated their reports. Present Justice Department procedures mean that informant reports will ente= r databases for future reference and/or action. The information will then be broadly available within the department, related agencies and local police forces. The targeted individual will remain unaware of the existence of th= e report and of its contents. The Patriot Act already provides for a person's home to be searched without that person being informed that a search was ever performed, or of any surveillance devices that were implanted. At state and local levels the TIPS program will be co-ordinated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which was given sweeping new powers, including internment, as part of the Reagan Administration's national security initiatives. Many key figures of the Reagan era are part of the Bush Administration. The creation of a US "shadow government", operating in secret, was another Reagan national security initiative. Ritt Goldstein is an investigative journalist and a former leader in the movement for US law enforcement accountability. He has lived in Sweden sinc= e 1997, seeking political asylum there, saying he was the victim of life-threatening assaults in retaliation for his accountability efforts. Hi= s application has been supported by the European Parliament, five of Sweden's seven big political parties, clergy, and Amnesty and other rights groups. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:04:47 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Scary TIPS In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Stephen I just noticed the date on this article - July 15 2002! I must have clicked through, I thought it was today's paper. But anyway, probably worth following up... Cheers A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:00:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Memory Babe In-Reply-To: <20041113145901.NWBE2429.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 13-Nov-04, at 6:59 AM, Vernon Frazer wrote: > I think Memory Babe is the best Kerouac biography I've read. I've read > other > excellent Kerouac biographies since then, but Memory Babe gave me a > sense of > Kerouac as a person that the others haven't given me. > Just read the Sandison one. I have read a great number, but this one had a slant that seemed even-handed, with a lot of details I had not seen before. I think that a lot of them came from Carolyn., ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:10:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: more midnights Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The point of telling midnight well I have built hells of vaible material & spilled bells on dusty sidewalks. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:12:54 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: poetry of omission or erasure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I lost the point - your "explanation" was delightfully confusing - but speaking of erasures a Alan Loney wrote an interesting poetry book called "The Erasure Tapes" my felling is that his best book is another called "Side Tracks" & also "falling". Alan Loney could be loosely called a NZ language poet ..who is now in Australia I believe - but in addition did a lot of publishing and has number of books out...the word "erasure" reminded me ..perhaps nothing is erased? The words get in and they stay there and they work and they are working and they do things man they are in there (are YOU in there who's in there?) and the words the white hot words the words the sigma and the tau the pieces the masses of things the things get in there and the black and the white and the red gets get down there and get a hold of them words and those ghosts what are we gunna do with them ghosts? Lets go down town Brown and erase some ghosts man those ghosts those things those creeping and the light we and the red and the head and the zing and those words inside the words lets go down town and to see and sing and what are we who are you its great isn't it those words? And and what what who who and the words and we get in there and the words sing and they are like nothing in your head they are the same different things I love them. Lets get down and erase the town lets get down into the green and see what they mean lets get into it and lets get political and lets get serious and crazy serious and speak some words and lets get going. ----- Original Message ----- From: "furniture_ press" To: Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 11:28 AM Subject: Re: poetry of omission or erasure speaking of erasures... i write almost exclusively on a pc and all erasures are "virtual" so there's no record of it. this somehow creeps into my writing but doesn't recontextualize it. or does it? that ghost is truly a ghost in the sense that it only happened to me - the boy who cried wolf so to speak, without the wolf and without the acknowledged cry. nothing but the 'finished' text (let's not get into that "is the text ever finished" crap...) anyway, what was my point? ----- Original Message ----- From: cris cheek To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: poetry of omission or erasure Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:10:59 -0500 Re: Re: a bit slow on this David, but before i erase the backlog: Re: Re: all writing DOES involve 'editing' (a something from a potential Re: everything) and 'recontextualization' - whether you like the term or Re: not it means what it says something taken from one context to another. Re: In this case a word or words are put where they were not before. Re: Editing achieves recontextualisation also, they are interlinked no? In Re: terms of making a linguistic assemblage. Re: Re: Re: On Sep 24, 2004, at 7:59 PM, david.bircumshaw wrote: Re: Re: >> ----- Original Message ----- Re: > From: "cris cheek" Re: > To: Re: > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 5:18 PM Re: > Subject: Re: poetry of omission or erasure Re: > Re: > Re: > all writing involves editing and recontextualisation Re: > Re: > On Sep 24, 2004, at 11:21 AM, david.bircumshaw wrote: Re: > Re: >>> By definition any manner of writing constraint would require Re: >>> omissions Re: >>> of one sort or another. Re: > Re: > Sorry, cris, 'david.bircumshaw' didn't write that, it's mIEKAL Re: > (omitted and erased!) you quote. Re: > Re: > I did say that mIEKAL's point had crossed my mind when I first saw the Re: > thread. As for your point, Re: > h'm, I'd say writing +can+ involve etc. I certainly couldn't agree Re: > that ALL writing involves Re: > editing and recontextualisation (ugh, ugly management-speaky kind of Re: > word, don't like, nasty!). Re: > I haven't any objection to either process but can only end up with a Re: > statement like: Re: > Re: > 'writing may or may not involve editing and that other word' which Re: > isn't really worth saying Re: > anyhow. What I'm interested in is what people are using tactics of Re: > 'omission and erasure' for, Re: > I'd like to know more about the raison d'être of the undoubtedly Re: > interesting US works that Re: > have been mentioned most of which I do have access to. I know why I Re: > use 'recontext' (God, Re: > I dislike that word so much I can't even finish it) when I use the Re: > tactic but it'd be interesting Re: > to know what the why of it is elsewhere. Without jargon, anyone, Re: > please. Re: > Re: > Best Re: > Re: > Dave Re: > Re: > Re: > Re: > Re: > Re: > Re: > David Bircumshaw Re: > Re: > Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet Re: > & Painting Without Numbers Re: > Re: > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ Re: > Re: -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:22:04 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: bo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What do you mean its the entire point? (You nay be right - but I haven't seen a suffcient "overview of Alan's work to feel I :"know that" - and dont thus follow what you say... Is there an **single** entire point to a writer's work - ever? Maybe the point of his work is the the work itself - the ongoing flux of it - the chrarge - ..of course he's into the"technical stuff" and the visual aspects etc and computer language/ computer speak/formatting etc ...but can we be sure of any writer what their "entire point" is? Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "derekrogerson" To: Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 9:08 AM Subject: Re: bo > > ....| I think it asks too much from the listees > ....| to support your overexposure Alan (seriously). > > ..| *& next time, how about not > ..| speaking for 'listees' (seriously) > > > Hi hassen! I didn't speak for anybody but myself obviously. I said what > I thought which is no one's opinion or words but my own. Next time, I > would ask, that you, hassen, better acquaint yourself with what actually > has happened as opposed to your cherished memories of the event. > > As far as Alan's work, what's there to say beyond authorship? I am > willing to concede this is the entire point of A.S.'s work. > > -- Derek > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:24:55 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: PC Police Refuse To Air Private Ryan Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ PC Police Refuse To Air Private Ryan: Spielberg Film Feared Not Politically Correct By FCC Standards: Corporations Feared Exercise Of Free Speech May Have Led To Fines, "Green Turns 'Em Yella.": PCFCC Contemplates Fines For Viewers Who Watched 'Saving Private Ryan' By LOOSY MORAES Energy Task Force, Cheney Administration Propose 'Burning Off' Remnants Of Arctic Ice Shelf: Move Would Speed Up Oil And Natural Gas Development: Convenience Stores Make Bid To Preserve And Bag Ice Cap By JOHN LUMPYLIP They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:39:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: poetry of omission or erasure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit point>>>>>>>>> erase sure o mission is imp oss i ble be brief finished procut pro duct anti- gill the way the rain curls cold abzeda 's a pool abzeda's a pool ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:44:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: poetry of omission or erasure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit flying fish can't survive out of w a t e r ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:24:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: brokeboy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed brokeboy broketoy brokejoy http://www.asondheim.org/brokeboy1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/brokeboy2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/brokeboy3.jpg ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:25:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: rong MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed rong ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 03:10:57 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit leaves slick as ice under footfall pale yeller, hectic red carpet sponge ground 'nother season gone winter is a come i put on weight stiff body, supple mind... 3:00...()(&%...who'd rather be sleepin'...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 03:32:47 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Rumor Mill... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as Leah and Sarah the two certainaged Israeli sister were saying before the soporific hayden& brittens string quartet arafat died of Aids niicht wahr? dr n... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:14:10 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: FWD - Charles Bernstein's "Self-Help" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is pretty lightweight compared to some of Bernstien's ealier ludic stuff - it ( - ther work quoted below) is mildly droll but not very substantial. Rihcard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Palma" To: Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:30 PM Subject: FWD - Charles Bernstein's "Self-Help" > This was posted to one of the email lists I'm on -- a non-academic/poetry > list / actually a bunch of house DJs -- and I was pleasantly surprised to > see it. > > I enjoyed it so much and thought I would FWD it here. > > Writing from Los Angeles. > > Cheers, > Christine > > > > > > FWD > > >>>> > Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:45:12 -0800 (PST) > From: Zak > > I heard this poem at a reading the Friday before the election. It well > summed my feelings on that day. > > It's by Charles Bernstein > > > > > Self-Help > > > > Home team suffers string of losses. - Time to change loyalties. > > Quadruple bypass. - Hold the bacon on that next cheeseburger. > > Poems tanking. - After stormiest days, sun comes out from behind clouds, or > used to. > > Marriage on rocks. - Nothing like Coke. > > Election going the wrong direction. - Kick off slippers, take deep breath, > be here now. > > Boss says your performance needs boost. - A long hot bath smoothes wrinkles. > > War toll tops 10,000. - Get your mind off it, switch to reality TV. > > Lake Tang Woo Chin Chicken with Lobster and Sweet Clam Sauce still not > served and everyone else got their orders twenty minutes back. - Savor the > water, feast on the company. > > Subway floods and late for audition. - Start being the author of your own > performance. Take a walk. > > Slip on ice, break arm. - In moments like this, the preciousness of life > reveals itself. > > Wages down in non-union shop. - You.re a sales associate, not a worker; so > proud to be part of the company. > > Miss the train? - Great chance to explore the station! > > Suicide bombers wreck neighborhood. - Time to pitch in! > > Nothing doing. - Take a break! > > Partner in life finds another partner. - Now you can begin the journey of > life anew. > > Bald? - Finally, you can touch the sky with the top of your head. > > Short-term recall shot. - Old memories are sweetest. > > Hard drive crashes and novel not backed up. - Nothing like a fresh start. > > Severe stomach cramps all morning. - Boy are these back issues of Field > and Stream engrossing. > > Hurricane crushes house. - You never seemed so resilient. > > Brother-in-law completes second year in coma. - He seems so much more > relaxed than he used to. > > $75 ticket for Sunday meter violation on an empty street in residential > neighborhood. - The city needs the money to make us safe and educate our > kids. > > Missed last episode of favorite murder mystery because you misprogrammed VCR. . > Write your own ending! > > Blue cashmere pullover has three big moth holes. - What a great looking shirt! > > Son joins skinhead brigade of Jews for Jesus. - At least he.s following his > bliss. > > Your new play receives scathing reviews and closes after a single night. - > What a glorious performance! > > Pungent stench of homeless man on subway, asking for food. - Such kindness > in his eyes, as I turn toward home. > > Retirement savings lost on Enron and WorldCom. - They almost rhyme. > > Oil spill kills seals. - The workings of the Lord are inscrutable. > > Global warming swamps land masses. - Learn to accept change. > > Bike going fast in wrong direction knocks you over. - A few weeks off > your feet, just what the doctor ordered. > > AIDS ravaging Africa. - Wasn.t Jeffrey Wright fabulous in Angels in America? > > Muffler shot. - There.s this great pizza place next to the shop. > > Income gap becomes crater. - Good motivation to get rich. > > Abu Ghraib prisoners tortured. - Let.s face it, shit happens. > > Oscar wins Emmy. - Award shows are da bomb. > > FBI checking your library check-outs. - I also recommend books on Amazon. > > Gay marriages annulled. - Who needs the state to sanctify our love? > > President.s lies kill GIs. - He.s so decisive about his core values. > > Self-help. - Other drowns. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:45:37 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The Commodificaton of the Writer - how to commodify Monsieur Sondheim? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit is it painful - this commodificaton? cant imagine Alan Sondheim being commodified Which alan would they commodify?: cant quite see his project fitting say into Mills and Boon? cant see people rushing to the book shops to get the latest intalment of Sondheimia - but maybe one day they will build a huge musem to house his near - infinite project - The Sondheimian Excessissvist Freneteticist Museum - (curtesy Nick curtesy Mary I think it was) .... lol Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Penton" To: Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 3:41 AM Subject: Re: The Commodificaton of the Writer - shorter URL > http://www.unlikelystories.org/frazer0604.shtml will also get you to > Commercial Fiction. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vernon Frazer" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:28 AM > Subject: The Commodificaton of the Writer > > > > The commodification of a literary figure usually means the author has been > > accepted into the American Mainstream culture. Commodification usually > means > > the literary lion has lost its teeth and should only appear in ads for > > graham crackers in milk. To my knowledge, there have been only two > > exceptions to this rule: William Burroughs, who may or may not have > actually > > worn Nikes; and > > > > (taa-daa) > > > > > > > > me. > > > > > > I can't say that I've achieved commodification through my work as a poet. > > Rather, it's my fiction that has brought me what many would consider the > > kiss of death. In this case, it's a breath of life. > > > > Jonathan Penton, the irreverent editor of Unlikely Stories > > (www.unlikelystories.org) has commodified me by creating an entire product > > line from my novel COMMERCIAL FICTION. If you haven't read the book, you > can > > purchase it through your online bookseller or read it online at: > > > > > > > http://www.unlikelystories.org/cgi_bin/fcp.pl?words=commercial+fiction&wt=ew > > &bl=or&d=/frazer0604.shtml > > > > If you find you're not up to the challenge of reading COMMERICAL FICTION > > (the foremost being not to fall onto the floor while writhing with > > laughter), you don't have to exhaust yourself by actually reading my work. > > Instead, you can relax with your choice of COMMERCIAL FICTI0N T-shirts, > > coffee mugs, tote bags, thong underwear (with my name on them. Does this > > make me a HOT commodity?) and anything other product that bears the stamp > of > > my name, the book's title and the dubious motto that the villain, a > > professional Role Model, lives up to in extraordinary ways > > > > Just click on http://www.cafepress.com/unlikely2/419388 and place your > > order. NOW! > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:58:56 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "patrick@proximate.org" Subject: Trollin' Trollin' Trollin', Keep Them Fingers Trollin' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Derek: Given your status as an IT expert, you are no doubt, as you are with the relationship between spam and viruses, familiar with the relationship between discussion lists and trolls. It seems at least one other list has identified you as a troll, which is exactly what I was thinking when reading your posts here: http://www.louisrosenfeld.com/home/bloug_archive/000151.html And here you are, trolling the SIGIA list! I thought I recognized your name from elsewhere! http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/0202/0214.html This one's a hoot, lecturing people who understand metadata on the relationship between ontologies and (gasp!) Hitler: http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/0311/0059.html Instead of being nasty, you can always just use your extensive technical skills and filter your email. That you choose to be a jerk is what makes you a troll. Patrick >Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 15:08:47 -0500 >From: derekrogerson >Subject: Re: bo > > >....| I think it asks too much from the listees >....| to support your overexposure Alan (seriously). > >..| *& next time, how about not >..| speaking for 'listees' (seriously) > > >Hi hassen! I didn't speak for anybody but myself obviously. I said what >I thought which is no one's opinion or words but my own. Next time, I >would ask, that you, hassen, better acquaint yourself with what actually >has happened as opposed to your cherished memories of the event. > >As far as Alan's work, what's there to say beyond authorship? I am >willing to concede this is the entire point of A.S.'s work. > > -- Derek ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at proximate.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:42:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: The Commodificaton of the Writer - how to commodify Monsieur Sondheim? In-Reply-To: <002901c4ca3f$761a4500$5c2756d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard I'm having a lot of fun being commodified. Maybe my product line will bring me income to support my writing. (hahahhaahaha) If Alan wants to become commodified, I'll be glad to share my selling-out secrets with him. Meanwhile, I'll once again assert my belief that Alan Sondheim has the right to post his work to the List. Those who don't want to read him can read other posts or press the delete button. By the way, Alan seems to be singled out for his posting. A number of other writers have posted their work to the List twice a day, but nobody's complained about them. I don't have a problem with their posting their work, either. But...why does Alan always catch the flak? Perhaps if more people wore the Vernon Frazer Commercial Fiction thong ($7.99 retail price), their minds would be occupied with matters other than Alan's posting to the List. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of richard.tylr Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 6:46 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The Commodificaton of the Writer - how to commodify Monsieur Sondheim? is it painful - this commodificaton? cant imagine Alan Sondheim being commodified Which alan would they commodify?: cant quite see his project fitting say into Mills and Boon? cant see people rushing to the book shops to get the latest intalment of Sondheimia - but maybe one day they will build a huge musem to house his near - infinite project - The Sondheimian Excessissvist Freneteticist Museum - (curtesy Nick curtesy Mary I think it was) .... lol Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Penton" To: Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 3:41 AM Subject: Re: The Commodificaton of the Writer - shorter URL > http://www.unlikelystories.org/frazer0604.shtml will also get you to > Commercial Fiction. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vernon Frazer" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:28 AM > Subject: The Commodificaton of the Writer > > > > The commodification of a literary figure usually means the author has been > > accepted into the American Mainstream culture. Commodification usually > means > > the literary lion has lost its teeth and should only appear in ads for > > graham crackers in milk. To my knowledge, there have been only two > > exceptions to this rule: William Burroughs, who may or may not have > actually > > worn Nikes; and > > > > (taa-daa) > > > > > > > > me. > > > > > > I can't say that I've achieved commodification through my work as a poet. > > Rather, it's my fiction that has brought me what many would consider the > > kiss of death. In this case, it's a breath of life. > > > > Jonathan Penton, the irreverent editor of Unlikely Stories > > (www.unlikelystories.org) has commodified me by creating an entire product > > line from my novel COMMERCIAL FICTION. If you haven't read the book, you > can > > purchase it through your online bookseller or read it online at: > > > > > > > http://www.unlikelystories.org/cgi_bin/fcp.pl?words=commercial+fiction&wt=ew > > &bl=or&d=/frazer0604.shtml > > > > If you find you're not up to the challenge of reading COMMERICAL FICTION > > (the foremost being not to fall onto the floor while writhing with > > laughter), you don't have to exhaust yourself by actually reading my work. > > Instead, you can relax with your choice of COMMERCIAL FICTI0N T-shirts, > > coffee mugs, tote bags, thong underwear (with my name on them. Does this > > make me a HOT commodity?) and anything other product that bears the stamp > of > > my name, the book's title and the dubious motto that the villain, a > > professional Role Model, lives up to in extraordinary ways > > > > Just click on http://www.cafepress.com/unlikely2/419388 and place your > > order. NOW! > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:10:43 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: commodification & thongs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vernon, If I were prolific and talented enough to have a volume of work to be commodified, I'd still want to wear your thong. Think of the inspiration of having you as a permanent wedgie throughout the day. It's a new day/way to stay in/on someone's mind. What colors do they come in? Mary ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:30:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: commodification & thongs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mary I think they only come in white. When I move them to Victoria's Secret, I'll insist they come in black. Or maybe Jonathon Penton can add a choice of colors to the current list. (You listening in, Jon?) I wish I had more fans like you. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:11 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: commodification & thongs Vernon, If I were prolific and talented enough to have a volume of work to be commodified, I'd still want to wear your thong. Think of the inspiration of having you as a permanent wedgie throughout the day. It's a new day/way to stay in/on someone's mind. What colors do they come in? Mary ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:53:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Rosenberg Subject: Iraq Civilian Casualty Statistics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The following article is pretty reveailing: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/geted.pl5?eo20041114a2.htm What is shocking in this, is that they specifically *excluded* Fallujah -- *pre-assault* Fallujah -- from the statistics to avoid sqewing the numbers Such a triumph for "moral values" ... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:01:06 -0500 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: A cornucopia for the holidays ... In-Reply-To: <20041113142801.QIBV2350.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit and a way to give thanks: http://got-voice.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:20:26 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: preparations for the Alan Sondheim study MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe by 2008 or 2009 we will finally have had enough years of this controversy to better study the anti/pro Sondheim pattern. Such questions as: How many hurricanes enter the Southeast US coast, measured against both the velocity of the Sondheim attacks and the number of months between the storm/Sondheim impacts? What is the psychic influence of Ron Silliman's nicotine levels? (once he's discovered to be a secret smoker: Pall Malls, no filters) How will the Sondheim debate stand up to the soon-to-be-marketed micro-tampons for tears? (still awaiting FDA approval) How will this feud withstand the next diet craze: sandpaper toilet paper, bringing all big asses into the fashion industry's slight embrace? Is there a connection between this Buff List controversy and the number of times a reporter accidentally refers to The Patriot Act as The Patriarch Act? CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:54:10 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: ob In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cheers to Alan, Hassen, Maria, Nick, Jonathan, and to objects in a static/ variable order, repetitive repetitive repetitive On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:44:46 -0500, hsn wrote: > hey derek! > > i'd like to suggest that you better acquaint yourself with alan's Work if > it's not too daunting for you. > > best, > hassen > > *& next time, how about not speaking for 'listees' (seriously) > > > > > On 11/12/04 3:37 PM, "derekrogerson" wrote: > > > > > PNGs harbor malicious executables: > > http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5298999.html > > > > Images (especially PNGs) have always been used by spammers in emails to > > unleash viruses. It makes no sense whatsoever to send an email full of > > image links (especially PNGs + especially duplicates). > > > > What is wrong, Alan, with sending an HTML-resolving URL with your PNG > > images listed on that HTML page as an index? Why not get a webspace to > > host your 'art' instead of daily unsolicited direct-marketing to this > > list? Have you ever considered a blog as a personal publishing option? I > > enjoy being exposed to your artwork as much as any other but is there > > anything Alan Sondheim hasn't done (and posted to this list)? > > > > I think it asks too much from the listees to support your overexposure > > Alan (seriously). > > > > -- Derek > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:45:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: commodification & thongs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alas, cafepress.com does not currently make black thongs, and as a single-order processing company, and reluctant to listen to requests from a single account (though I suppose it can't hurt to ask, in case they have many customers asking for black thongs). It's a rather good company; the clothing tends to be solid, the screen printing process has vastly improved since 2001 when I first ordered from them, and the prices are better than you'd expect for single-order fulfillment. Sadly, though, the market for $8 cotton thongs in black is probably pretty limited. In the case of Poetics list customers, though, with a $25 order, I'll send you a free black paint stick. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vernon Frazer" To: Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: Re: commodification & thongs > Mary > > I think they only come in white. When I move them to Victoria's Secret, I'll > insist they come in black. Or maybe Jonathon Penton can add a choice of > colors to the current list. (You listening in, Jon?) > > I wish I had more fans like you. > > Vernon > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:11 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: commodification & thongs > > Vernon, > > If I were prolific and talented enough to have a volume of work to be > commodified, I'd still want to wear your thong. Think of the inspiration of > having > you as a permanent wedgie throughout the day. It's a new day/way to stay > in/on > someone's mind. What colors do they come in? > > Mary > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:50:25 -0700 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: quote assistance? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi folks; I am currently transcribing the 1963 Vancouver poetry conference = (consisting of lectures by Creeley, Duncan, Olson, Ginsberg, Levertov, = Avison, Whalen) - and part of the process for me is confirming and = locating all references to poets, poetics and lines of specific poems = referred to in the lectures. I picture that the final manuscript will = have a reference for every person, book and quote referred to directly = or indirectly throughout the lectures. So far the process is going very = well. I am building on work done by a series of scholars on this = conference, most specifically Aaron Vidaver, Ralph Maud, Shelley Wong, = George Butterick and Charles Watts - building on work that has been = attempted in the past in order to create a manuscript which accurately = transcribes and annotates all of the extant 13 lectures (roughly 20 = hours of tape recorded by Fred Wah & currently online at www.slought.net = ) into a single manuscript. I am currently working on the 10th lecture. That said - I have been trying to locate the following references = (below) gathered from each of the 10 lectures I have transcribed which = have proved somewhat elusive to date, and I am hoping that some of you = might be able to suggest where they might be located. The transcriptions = below may not be exactly correct as I am working from audio tapes, but = of course I would like to confirm them as being accurate. Any = suggestions will be greatly appreciated and acknowledged of course. Thank you very much for your help and assistance. Sincerely derek derek beaulieu 101, 728 - 3rd ave nw calgary alberta canada t2n 0j1 derek@housepress.ca *** Duncan: "we have come so far that all the old stories whisper once more" Williams: "they hid the two men who have been unable to realize their = wishes" Olson: "i come back to the geography of it" Olson: "Your speech will discriminate my body" Olson: "i have in this sense that i am one with my skin" Avison: "if we're here / lets be here now" HD: "was there ever anything other than the sand, the edge of the sea = and the stars?" wordsworth: "language is not the address but the incarnation of thought" olson: "I am the seraphim of Gloucester standing I am" (maximus - but = where?) Olson: "beware of the seed..." Duncan: "take care by the throat and throttle it" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:08:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: No Trolls here, only the judged In-Reply-To: <200411141058.AA1304166674@proximate.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit patrick wrote: ..| you...a jerk...a troll Well, so much for the spirit of not flaming. You could have picked much better stuff from sigia-l to flame me with patrick. I wrote what i wrote when I wrote it and I meant it. Things tend to work themselves out and I have left myself plenty of room to grow. As far as Lou, that's between Lou and himself, it is his site, and if you look at his site you will find nothing there to objectively justify his statement -- indeed I only posted on his blog three times (hardly a stalker in the midst). ..| Given your status as an IT expert... I did not make any claim to be an expert, I only claimed I worked in the industry -- that's familiarity. Why are you so hostile (to the truth)? -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:27:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: The Commodificaton of the Writer - how to commodify Monsieur Sondheim? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vernon Frazer" To: Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 10:42 AM Subject: Re: The Commodificaton of the Writer - how to commodify Monsieur Sondheim? > Richard > > I'm having a lot of fun being commodified. Maybe my product line will bring > me income to support my writing. (hahahhaahaha) > > If Alan wants to become commodified, I'll be glad to share my selling-out > secrets with him. > > Meanwhile, I'll once again assert my belief that Alan Sondheim has the right > to post his work to the List. Those who don't want to read him can read > other posts or press the delete button. > > By the way, Alan seems to be singled out for his posting. A number of other > writers have posted their work to the List twice a day, but nobody's > complained about them. I don't have a problem with their posting their work, > either. > > But...why does Alan always catch the flak? Yeah. And that is interesting to me, and I was going to post more on the subject, but I realized that we don't have a real sample in this instance. As Patrick posted to the list, and someone else pointed out to me backchannel, this particular flame-thing is an aberration, not a normal continuance of the anti-Sondheim saga. But it struck me as curious: drn almost always faithfully posts two poems a day, and has received one snarky comment in the time I've been on the list. It was during spring, and the comment was "Let's hope summer arrives soon. Jesus." I took it as snarky, anyway, but the author might not have intended it as such. This is the second time, however, in less than a year on the list that Alan's been attacked for overexposure, though he posts less than drn. But this one does appear to be an aberration. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:31:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: Trollin' Trollin' Trollin', Keep Them Fingers Trollin' In-Reply-To: <200411141058.AA1304166674@proximate.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick, i understand you are full of hate (for me) but you may not understand that I am agreeing with Clay here and quote him as a reference to back up my words to a cabal on the IA list bent on making our online content nothing more than pigeon-holed categorical experiences (ie. bought and sold). ___________________________________ This one's a hoot, lecturing people who understand metadata on the relationship between ontologies and (gasp!) Hitler: http://www.info-arch.org/lists/sigia-l/0311/0059.html Instead of being nasty... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:15:21 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: commodification & thongs Comments: To: Mary Jo Malo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i'd definitely wear a dipthong. kevin putting the text in textile On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Mary Jo Malo wrote: > Vernon, > > If I were prolific and talented enough to have a volume of work to be > commodified, I'd still want to wear your thong. Think of the inspiration of having > you as a permanent wedgie throughout the day. It's a new day/way to stay in/on > someone's mind. What colors do they come in? > > Mary > -- --------------------------- http://www.afghanrestaurant.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:13:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Clarifications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed It seems clearer to say the ownership society is really the "I Got Mine" society, if we are going to speak plainly now. Robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:59:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Eliot Weinberger Email In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have Eliot Weinberger's email? The translator of Vicente Huidobro's Altazor? R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Robert Corbett > Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 8:14 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Clarifications > > > It seems clearer to say the ownership society is really the "I Got Mine" > society, if we are going to speak plainly now. > > Robert > > -- > Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, > Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the > B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the > Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of > Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop > UW Box: 351237 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:09:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: General Principle of Narrative (Violence) Under Capital MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed General Principle of Narrative (Violence) Under Capital 1. The general principal of narrative under capital is _withholding._ 2. In withholding, information, which would propel the narrative forward, is withheld in order to lengthen, not enrich, the diegetic flow. 3. Within capital, lengthening implies additional penny-dreadful or feuilleton segments. 4. This is accomplished by suspense, but beneath the 'sign of capital,' withholding is literally the order of the day. 5. Withholding is accompanied by local omniscience. 6. Example 0: In the book of Job, Yhwh waits until the three friends and Elihu have finishes their dialogs - at which point, the configuration of his power is enunciated. Note political economy, enumeration of children, servants, flocks, etc. 7. Example 1: In Dracula, Van Helsinger leads various people at various times to Lucy's crypt, demonstrating the corpse is or is not present, without explaining his belief in her vampirism, which is only revealed later. 8. Example 2: Almost any television/film: "What happened?" - "I don't have time to explain. Come with me." - or some such. 9. Example 3: Almost any US newscast? "Why did _x_? - We'll tell you after the break." 10. Example 4: The US military control of theoretically omniscient reportage or critique: the "embedded" journalist who becomes an advertisement for ideology and policy. 11. Example 5: Lyotard's differend returned with a vengeance: The withholding and withering of entire populations. 12. I don't have time to explain. Come with me. I can't tell you yet. We don't have any time to lose. You'll see in a while. We can't discuss this. We can't bring the cops in on this. The authorities would be all over us. We've got to go it alone. Believe in me. Trust me. 13. The Christology is apparent: Believe, not because it is absurd, but because of the fury of fast-forward time. Not a moment to lose: Kill the heathens. Fallujah? No time for the convoys. We've got to move on. We've got to move in. 14. The withholding promises a completion at _the end of time._ You'll see in a while. Hold your horses. Dramatic time is time deferred, pornographic time, differance-time. 15. The time of capital is continuous deferment. Iraq, Iran, Syria, USA, Belgium, Netherlands, France, Tiero del Fuego. The chain is random, arbitrary, except for the withholder. The withholder makes it up as it goes along. The withholder has a grand plan. The withholder is national. The withholder knows better. Re-elect Bush: We can't change horses in mid-stream. The driver knows. Withholding is always driven, always the sublimation and exfoliation, the production of capital. 16. What is withheld is almost always within the differend. What is withheld no longer speaks, not at all, or speaks only at the end of time. 17. The end of time when the differend speaks: defuge, useless, wastage. No one listens. The control of news is the control of the imminent, the explosion of the leading story. The rest is debris. 18. God sets the scene in Job. Gods speaks of the fecundity of the earth. God ensures his construct. Job is reduced either to silence or acquiescence. The dialog is over. 19. Withholding has moved from biblical narrative through popular narrative into the heart of news. It drives narrative forward. It has eliminated other forms of suspense; the "whodunit" has been replaced by the unfolding of Armageddon. Look at the Rapture, grown into an Amerikan industry; look at our Wars themselves. We know whodunit; we watch the pornography of unfolding, the _pli,_ the baroque which hides the raw vicissitudes of Power. 20. Omniscience is hidden, parcelling out effect and affect. Omniscience is the Amerikan lie come true, the lie of capital, planetary corrosion. The largest life-forms are fungal nets beneath the soil in the upper Mid-West. The largest life-masses are the single-celled organisms occupying rock strata beneath the surface of the earth. God waited while everyone talked. The news promises the answer to the question after the commercial. 21. The commercial is delivered; the news is the hiatus, the gap. At times (CNN Headline News for example), the question is not even answered; it is forgotten in the rush of passing content. "Whatever happened to Baby Jane? - News at 10." At 10, the news is silent, but the audience is present, continuing the violating narrative of the planet, what capital allows to pass for news. 22. "To be distracted by questions of administrative forms, race hatreds, man hunts, or socialisation of everything but the national debt, is merely swallowing the sucker-bait." (Ezra Pound, 1953.) 23. The ultimate withholding occurs with the _manhunt_ which is already foreclosed. The manhunt distracts from the world. The double-withholding: capital offers the scapegoat; the dead and wounded in Fallujah are withheld. Withholding occurs in the midst of battle which is never announced, never enunciated. Withholding creates a _story._ A _story_ promises an _ending._ An _ending_ promises a _suture._ Everything is returned to normalcy; everything recovers. 24. A _suture_ promises an _ego._ A _suture_ promises a nuclear family. A _suture_ promises infinity of Power which structures the suture itself. Such an infinity is Deity. Dissect withholding and Deity always appears. Withholding is at the beck and call of Fundamentalism, a tool of Fundamentalism. Withholding promises absolute information, the power of the Absolute. 25. One withholds because one _knows._ One knows absolutely. The world divides into the known and unknown. The known is privileged, class. Withholding is power masquerading as the simulacrum of power. 26. "Trust me. We'll get out of here alive." +++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:21:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Taylor Subject: SpiralBridge News and Events MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT 1. The Naked Readings (Sun. 11/28) 2. Poetry Workshop (Sun. 11/28) 3. 10,000 Global Visitors 4. Call for Submission 5. Musicians Wanted ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Leave the Sunday after Thanksgiving open for... The Naked Readings Poetry Music Art Life Art Music Poetry Sunday, November 28th @ Makeready's Gallery 214 Artspace 214 Glenridge Avenue Montclair, NJ Open Mic. 7-10pm Featured Poet Ken Wolman Music By Kieran Sullivan Paintings By Antonio Nogieura Please join us at this inspiring event celebrating the words and worlds of poets from all over the Metropolitan area traversing the diverse realms of creative expression. Seize the opportunity to re-connect with the wonderful and supportive community of Spoken Word in funky Montclair, NJ. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2.) Before The Naked Readings join the SpiralBridge Writers Guild for a poetry workshop facilitated by Ken Wolman, our featured November poet Sunday, November 28th from 3 pm-5 pm @ Makeready's Gallery 214 Artspace 214 Glenridge Avenue Montclair Now more about the workshop from Ken ... "Come prepared to write. There will be some sort of prompt to start you up--I'm still sorting through the possibilities. If we have two hours, about an hour will be spent getting acclimated, then writing. The last hour will be discussing what you did. It doesn't have to be great, it doesn't even have to be good, it just needs to happen. The idea is to think without using your brains--our brains get us into trouble every time. Mine is my mortal enemy during the first writing phase. Save your brains for revisions after you leave." Read recent works by Ken Wolman by visiting http://www.SpiralBridge.org/home.asp Help us support the arts and the artists, there is a $10 suggested donation for this workshop that goes directly to the poet. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3.) SpiralBridge has just received its 10,000th on-line global visitor. We count each computer only once so we're thrilled to let you know that at least 10,000 people on 10,000 computers around this litle world of ours have viewed SpiralBridge.org and your poetry! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 4.) Call for Poetry Submissions . SpiralBridge graciously invites you to submit 3 poems, three pages or under, for publishing consideration on our SpiralBridge.org web site. ~Please submit poems to Submissions@SpiralBridge.org ~You will be notified by email if your poem/s will appear on the SpiralBridge site. ~Your poem/s will remain as our Featured Work for 2 weeks and your publication, after this time, will be placed in our on-line archive for the rest of eternity. This is an open ongoing call to All Poets and Writers. Be sure to include your contact information (name, address, and e-mail/phone number) in the top right hand corner of the first page of your poem. We are pleased to offer you the option of including a short bio. and photo along with your poem on our home page. All submissions must be sent as attachments. Please address the e-mail Attn: Poetry Submissions Please name your document after your last name or the last name of your pen name. Thank you for your continued support of SpiralBridge Writers Guild. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 5. SpiralBridge hosts open mic. poetry readings on a monthly basis, usually on the last Sunday of the month. As part of a continuing program to promote community and the arts, we include music in our monthly program. We are currently seeking submissions from anyone interested in being booked to perform. Solo singer/songwriters or a duo that may include hand percussion, as our event space is absolutely awesome for this type of performance but not sonically suited to bands. We have a great space to play (readings are held in an art gallery). There is a built-in audience (if you can draw, great!... but there is absolutely no pressure to do so.) It's a wonderful opportunity to build your mailing list with a listening crowd. Please email with any questions and for mailing address for press kits. Inquiries welcomed. Packets should include CD, bio, and contact information. CD should reflect your solo or duo sound, not full band. Think MTV:Unplugged. Sincerely, Lynn Rosenthal SpiralBridge Music Coordinator Contact: Music@SpiralBridge.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpiralBridge Writers Guild is an independent, nonprofit organization based in Northern New Jersey. We are dedicated to encouraging the exploration of the arts in our society by providing open poetry readings, writing workshops, educational programs, community outreach and multimedia publications. http://www.SpiralBridge.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpiralBridge is Poetry! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:52:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: trolls Comments: cc: amy happens In-Reply-To: <000001c4ca96$8dc61290$93e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amy King and I are talking on the phone, and we are talking about the fragmentation that seems to be happening on this listserv--so reflective--mirror of the Democratic party. How we can combat (ha ha) this fragmentation? Wasn't the spirit of this listserv (merry christmas) one of sharing and supporting each other in the business of poetry? Why can't there be poetry mobs? We've got this great tool (listserv) already organized .... ...http://www.wordspy.com/words/flashmob.asp http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/internet/08/04/flash.mob/... <><>at noon tomorrow, everyone post a poem...if you can't do so, recite a poem wherever you are at 3. tra la la, minky trollshine ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:01:55 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: 'You Can Tell How Better Things Are Getting by How Bad It Is" Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Bush Warns of Growing Violence in Iraq: 'You Can Tell How Better Things Are Getting by How Bad It Is": Cheney Denies Numbers are "Viet Nam-like": Pat Robertson Prays for a Christian Death for All Iraqis: By IMA STOOGEY They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:41:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: The Commodify-schmodify here's part of my day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a young friend came to start editing a new chap for me to prepare it for the jan gig at the poetry project it will tentatively be called in glorious black and white his idea not mine went to bowery poetry club to hear jaap blonk too much electronics but my friend okyung really helped on cello then the topper the new 3 hr version of sam fuller's THE BIG RED ONE catch it if ya can gruesome witty gorgeous makes ya just love war (HA) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:26:21 -0800 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: Re: demand an investigation/Votescam 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for posting this, Lawrence. In addition to signing and commenting here, I have also written one of my senators. It is essential that we demand an investigation. LR ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Sawyer Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 4:50 PM Subject: Re: demand an investigation/Votescam 2004 Write now to demand that your representatives begin the process of investigating the fraudulent 2004 election! http://www.moveon.org/investigatethevote/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:53:50 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit time's knife's edge... 10 to & counting...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:57:58 -0800 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: Re: Whacko to Head Up FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable this is outdated. look it up in Google. there is some good info here . = . . but . . . .=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joe Brennan=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 5:21 PM Subject: Whacko to Head Up FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory = Committee President Bush has announced his plan to select Dr. W. David Hager to head up the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) Reproductive = Health Drugs Advisory Committee. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:03:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Quasha Subject: new Baumgartner Gallery opening with John Cage - George Quasha exhibition Nov. 19th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Baumgartner Gallery is pleased to announce its inaugural exhibition at the new 522 West 24th Street location, presenting a selection of John Cage’s celebrated New River Watercolors and George Quasha’s new Axial Stones & Drawings. Opening November 19, 2004 6-8 PM Revolutionary composer, poet/writer, and artist, John Cage made a series of watercolors in 1988 at the Mountain Lake Workshop in Virginia; he used stones from New River, which were arranged systematically with art materials (colors, papers, brushes & feathers, etc.) and employed according to I Ching-based chance operations. These visual works represent a high point in Cage’s famous displacement of “choice” from the level of taste, personal emotion, and aesthetic judgment to that of a non-personalist modality of engaging materials and process. “My choices,” he said “consist in choosing what questions to ask.” The work on paper preserves the traces of an event, an energy field of material expression, where things speak for themselves in unforeseen ways and retain their freshness year after year. In his mid 20s George Quasha met John Cage and felt his own work as poet and artist “reoriented,” although he himself never embraced systematic chance operations. (Later his Station Hill Press published Cage’s Themes & Variations.) Quasha’s sense of the axial, as the principle pervading all of his work (whether sculpture, drawing, video, language, or performance), offers a parallel to Cage’s intention to discover uniqueness and radical newness in each instance of composition, whatever the medium. Quasha’s axial stones are the result of subtle attractions and unique acts of balance. He discovers individual stones, usually in or near rivers, and, according to the artist, “waits (minutes, days, years) until they discover each other”; he then “performs their act of union through radical balance, without changing the stones in any way and without any kind of stickum.” He “works them, on an invisible axis, toward their most precarious point, the optimal statement of apparent impossibility”; this is the point where “a stone seems on the verge of switching elements, a liminality of earth and air.” They “remain on edge, pre-climactic, impermanent, yet well seated in their perilous retention.” The axial drawings present a related event in the medium of graphite on paper. “The axial does not suggest a method or style but a principle, which, unlike the conceptual, can have no definitive expression; instead it generates ever new instances of itself.” A “state of free moving intentionality, it finds formal integrity on the fly.” Despite a sometimes surprising elegance in the drawing, it is in fact an unrepeatable event — a skill-defying act that restores the artist to “zero point” — a momentary innocence rather than mastery. What appears is an “integrating energy” that is neither abstract nor figurative, but configurative — “a site of possible figuration with no hold on formal consistency.” Axial drawing here means “graphite exciting paper to open its aperture to an other side.” beauty = precarious x optimal George Quasha’s work in installation and video includes "art is: Speaking Portraits (in the performative indicative)", an ongoing project on exhibit this month at White Box, November 16 through 27 (525 West 26th Street); at the same time it will be streamed on WPS1, the all-art internet station of PS1/MoMA. (Details of the work at www.artis-online.net.) art is has previously been exhibited at the Snite Museum of Art, the International Media Art Biennale WRO 03 (Wroclaw), 10th Biennial of Moving Images (Saint-Gervais, Geneva), Bunkier Sztuki (Krakow), World Social Forum 04 (Bombay), etc. His thirteen books include: art writing (four books and nine catalogues on artist Gary Hill, including Tall Ships, HanD HearD/liminal objects, Viewer, and Language Willing), poetry (five books, including Ainu Dreams and The Preverbs of Tell), and anthologies (America a Prophecy, Open Poetry, and The Station Hill Blanchot Reader). He continues his twenty year performance and video/language collaboration with Gary Hill and Charles Stein. JOHN CAGE works on paper GEORGE QUASHA axial stones & drawings November 19 – December 23, 2004 Opening November 19 6-8 PM http://www.baumgartnergallery.com http://www.quasha.com http://www.artis-online.net -- George Quasha Barrytown/Station Hill Press, Inc. (The Institute for Publishing Arts, Inc.) 124 Station Hill Road, Barrytown, NY 12507 Home: (845) 758-5291 Cell: (914-474-5610 Fax: (845) 758-9838 Publishing: (845) 758-5293 http://www.quasha.com http://www.artis-online.net http://www.baumgartnergallery.com http://www.stationhill.org This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:19:31 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: do MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Enough of the technical voodoo and smears already! There's enough "technical knowledge" in this thread to fill a very small thimble! Don't feed the trolls! I love Alan's work. Roger derekrogerson cc: Sent by: UB Poetics Subject: Re: do discussion group 12/11/2004 23:12 Please respond to UB Poetics discussion group Jonathan wrote: ..| "Spammers" don't send viruses; they send spam Any unsolicited email is considered spam Jonathan. Viruses arriving via email are pretty much unsolicited. Come on now. Read the security article I thoughtfully included. ..| "Image links" are nothing but text Yes, but if users click on them they can execute malicious programs from the hosting server. This is the security risk. Please don't post claiming how knowledgeable email/web users are. Read the security article I thoughtfully included. ..| Raymond misdiagnosed whatever ..| sort of problems he had Raymond claimed his software was recognizing Alan's posts as a virus + his network crashed (presumably the network 'stopped' because a suspected virus carrier was found). There does not appear to be any misdiagnosis. (Imagine confusing Alan's work with a virus!!) Please read the security article I thoughtfully included. ..| I don't know what an "HTML-resolving URL" ..| is supposed to be An "HTML-resolving URL" is a URL which resolves to a hyper-text document (a .html extension) and not to an image (ie. a .png extension). HyperText documents have the advantage of being Mark-up Languages -- which means you can do all kinds of crazy stuff with them on your server and the list only needs to see one single URL. This is how the web works. Many people publicize their blogs and other activities on po-list in this unobtrusive and reasonable way. At some simple point it is just stupid not to ask someone to stop yelling in your ear. ..| I don't know what you're asking from Alan I'm asking Alan if it is necessary to post his work daily here while pointing out he his overexposed on this list. Yes, this is a question. Can Alan Sondheim exist outside of this po-list? Does he dare try something new? -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:25:39 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: trolls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<>>> Minky, I'm not certain which fragmentation in particular you are referring to. It seems that there is a shared (for the most part) political vibe here, but as far as poetry, is it really the best thing to ask for unity from poets when it comes to poetry? There is nothing wrong with poets disagreeing, in fact, as a group, poets seem to be very disagreeable, and that could be seen as a valuable tool in this world where so much is asked of people, and passively agreed upon. In Germany they are entrenched in a national fight for and against extending the working week to 40 hours. It's so exciting to see such angry people, insisting that 40 hours is simply too traumatic for the human body to endure. Meanwhile, in America, MOST people work 40 to 50 hours a week, and have recently given up overtime pay. In an age of brand name, centralized intelligence, it's the disagreeable who are needed. Those who can say NO when they fucking mean it! Or Fuck Off, or whatever. Conflict is healthy, especially in the understanding and definition of poetics. The different groups --or fragments as you call them-- are formed with shared vitality, and it's got nothing to do with comparisons to political parties. Just because the election happened so recently, we don't need to be comparing every group to a political party. It's one thing for poets to be political, another for a poet to be a politician. Unity in some ways is far more destructive than it is anything else. Being disagreeable can be supportive, in that it forces each poet to be confronted with whether or not they really believe what it is they say. And if so, well then they can defend their argument. Asking poets to come together for a fuzzy hug is missing the point about HOW supportive taking a stand can turn out to be. CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:56:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: commodification & thongs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you buy the thong and wear it while swimming, you'll have something close to a diphthong. Since I'm only the object of commodification, I don't have the authority or access to customize the product. If you buy one and send it to me with return postage, I'll be glad to write "diph" on the thong and autograph it for you. Vernon Frazer, Commodified Writer http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Kevin Hehir Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 7:45 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: commodification & thongs i'd definitely wear a dipthong. kevin putting the text in textile On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Mary Jo Malo wrote: > Vernon, > > If I were prolific and talented enough to have a volume of work to be > commodified, I'd still want to wear your thong. Think of the inspiration of having > you as a permanent wedgie throughout the day. It's a new day/way to stay in/on > someone's mind. What colors do they come in? > > Mary > -- --------------------------- http://www.afghanrestaurant.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:28:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: commodification & thongs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr. Frazer, It has come to our attention that you have offered to modify one of our products for a customer, on the grounds that said customer wanted to be different. We must ask that you cease and desist this action immediately. As you know, as a commercial writer, your job is to sell our products, and while your book at http://www.unlikelystories.org/frazer0604.shtml is one of our products, it is not the primary source of income your commercialism represents. Our product line, and the style represented thereby, is an important part of our company's image, and you are not authorized to tamper or modify that image in any way. We have not yet been successful in prosecuting all incidents of the tampering of our image that http://www.unlikelystories.org/frazer0604.shtml represents, but in time, we will. We expect you to retract your offer without necessitating action against you, action we are fully prepared to take. Sincerely, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org *The contents of this letter are a confidential and private satire. If you are reading this and you are not Vernon Frazer, you are legally obliged to pluck your eyes out and set them aflame.* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:41:13 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Poetry, language & linguistics (revisiting Ruth Altmann) Micropublishing & the=20 self-published chapbook: Tinker Greene=92s Man Going to His Doom Micropublishing &=20 magazines =96=20 Primary Writing & the poetry of Norma Cole The diamond of resentment: Edward Dorn & his Chicago Review festschrift Ruth Altmann =96 a new New York School poet 4 more years? Where do we go from here? Joe Brainard =96 A new memoir by Ron Padgett & the role of memoirs in the NY School Moolaad=E9 =96 Resistance to female circumcision in Burkina Faso (a film by Ousmane Sembene) Voting as tho=20 the nation=92s future depended on it =20 How do I decide=20 what=92s right for me? Letting =93the Outside=94=20 =93dictate=94 =09 =93the poem=94 =96 Mark Tursi on a Spicerian side of poetics K Silem Mohammad=92s=20 =94A Language Poetry Dossier=94 =96 Googlism vs. Google The Motorcycle Diaries =96 Che the wide-eye med student So where Goest Cole Swensen? http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 02:44:20 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: trolls and fragments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is right - agreement can be fatal - harmony deceptive. [(by the way I have always been a supporter of Alan Sondheim's work (since I can on the list a few years ago) so I hope people didnt misread my tongue in cheek comments about Alan as (me) not wanting him on the List - he is doing some amazing if baffling stuff and the sheer amount of is a phenomenom - so much so Sondheimia is certain to be studied by generations of Phd students to come ( I envisage a huge musem called The Sondheimian Excessivist Postivistic Ontachocalogical Cybermania Non-Centre Institute - containing approx 100,000,000,000,000 billion billion cyber books of Sondheimia) (just jiving - but seriously - some strange but interesting work by Alan.....I despair of ever understanding a fraction of it but love the idea of it... )] Human groups need to conflict to grow. re the US elections etc (and frag) - of course there is a lot of serious shit going down there but we are also poets -not politicians (or everyone is a politician) - we are all part of the human tribes - community - and no matter how hermetic we may be individually -and with various degress of introversion/exxtrovesion - we each need each other...but fragmentation is interesting and probably necessary as probably wars and conflict are right now. The miltant (and other) left shouldn't fear war or conflict - ultimately there needs to be a revolutionary war/wars (but the idealogical/sociological/philosphical "wars" (fragmentaions)are just as immportant - it may get down to an actual revolutionary war - riots etc - but cant see that coming for along time - the riots and protest maybe soner athn we thingk though: but those possibilites shouldn't be feared, nor should the 'future' (or everyone will collapse in bundles of shrieking neunronic nets) - dangerous as these guys (The New [wold be] Rulers of the World) are (with Wolfowitz being replaced by another semi-psychopath ( is it Morales or Gonzales?) cited as encouraging imprisonment of so-called terrorists without the usual legal rights)) and their anti-terrorist laws moving (they are in law here) to NZ - very much the same laws as The Homeland Security Laws are in force here even in NZ and also Australia) but translate those laws as - "anti -people = keep people scared , easier to manipulate." (1984 by Orwell is the relevant text) - dangerous as they are they stuff up. The "proposed" 10 million spies is another problem (that starts to look very much like Nazi Germany)..but despite everything the ruling class will fail - eventually they will go too far - invade Iran and Syria and then maybe try for China - or even before that and we will have a very big protest movement worldwide - the Imperialists will also (sooner or later) be beaten miltarily by gurerilla warfare. So - to reapeat disagreement is what we are all about as Conrad implies - the struggles in Germany are good. But I dont want to agree too much with Conrad!!..lol..... And we are not disagreeing very much anyway (perhaps not fragmenting eboough - lol) - Harry Nudel states his views..Alan pours on his work...which has a lot of politcal content in it...others give political links etc etc Others simply send poetry or poetics. Nobody neccesarily agrees. Or we all (poetically?) dissagree on somethings if not everything... Richard Taylor New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Allen Conrad" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 1:25 AM Subject: Re: trolls > << fragmentation that seems to be happening on this listserv--so > reflective--mirror of the Democratic party.>>>> > > Minky, I'm not certain which fragmentation in particular you are > referring to. It seems that there is a shared (for the most part) > political vibe here, but as far as poetry, is it really the best thing > to ask for unity from poets when it comes to poetry? > > There is nothing wrong with poets disagreeing, in fact, as a > group, poets seem to be very disagreeable, and that could be > seen as a valuable tool in this world where so much is asked > of people, and passively agreed upon. > > In Germany they are entrenched in a national fight for and > against extending the working week to 40 hours. It's so > exciting to see such angry people, insisting that 40 hours > is simply too traumatic for the human body to endure. > Meanwhile, in America, MOST people work 40 to 50 hours > a week, and have recently given up overtime pay. > > In an age of brand name, centralized intelligence, it's the > disagreeable who are needed. Those who can say NO > when they fucking mean it! Or Fuck Off, or whatever. > > Conflict is healthy, especially in the understanding and > definition of poetics. The different groups --or fragments > as you call them-- are formed with shared vitality, and it's > got nothing to do with comparisons to political parties. > > Just because the election happened so recently, we don't > need to be comparing every group to a political party. It's > one thing for poets to be political, another for a poet to be > a politician. Unity in some ways is far more destructive than > it is anything else. > > Being disagreeable can be supportive, in that it forces each > poet to be confronted with whether or not they really believe > what it is they say. And if so, well then they can defend > their argument. > > Asking poets to come together for a fuzzy hug is missing the > point about HOW supportive taking a stand can turn out to be. > > CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:56:07 -0500 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: trolls and fragments In-Reply-To: <003e01c4cb19$35ed94c0$ce3758db@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good grief, no one is dissing disagreement. It's a necessity that's with us always, hence Minky's playful use of the term "combat." However, this list perpetually regresses into ongoing "disagreements" that sit solely on the pinhead of whose "turf" the listserv is. Even now, Minky's main sentiment is disregarded, one that suggests, yes, a kind of silly playfulness but also (albeit simplistic) a call to do something together and be supportive of and in the tiny world that is poetry. In fact, this kind of call actually supports the idea of members posting their work and is not anti-any-listserv member! Why is it that you have only read that we are calling for an end to disagreement? A call for "solidarity" a la Rodney King? Why has it been decided that we are against defending our values via protest? Isn't it just possible that two women on the phone across the state from each other, giddy at midnight, thought it might be fun to propose that poets do something fun together and in unison (--at the same time-- not unlike the flashmob phenomena) even if most of us are separated by distance? Does "in unison" mean we will all suddenly agree on every political and moral count and even do the same exact thing at the same time? Must doing poetry "together" be relegated to events focused on readings or blogs where a select few are central? Please don't read that I'm opposed to readings and blogs - I'm not. Wouldn't it be nice to find yourself in Grand Central Station during rush hour at precisely 5:30 p.m. in the middle of a group of poets holding an impromptu reading (logistics not withstanding)? Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all sent poems simultaneously to one online media site and made them pause (& possibly respond) in the name of poetry? Poets read poetry, they say. Many poets venture into other realms and bring attention to poetry. Many people are doing wonderful work when it comes to drawing attention to poetry outside of our somewhat insular world. Aren't there any lurkers interested in sharing their ideas in this regard? And again, I'll qualify this to avoid misinterpretations: I am not saying the goal of poetry should be to appeal to the masses. It's early, and I am sans-coffee. Clearly these ideas are rudimentary & can be much more constructive and are, of course, to be disregarded by the masses - but please do not mistake our sentiment as some misguided call for a new obtuse anti-political hearts-and-hugs religion. We too know conflict. I'll be posting a poem at noon. I hope others do too. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:01:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: request for poetry at noon here or at three wherever you are (was trolls) Comments: cc: Amy King In-Reply-To: <1d9.2fc19a47.2ec9fa43@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CA Conrad--your words below are valuable--but have you missed my point? I hardly need to be outlined the benefits of complicating ones thinking through disagreement and inquiry. I'm 35, overeducated, and underimpressed with rhetoric that does not move humans, my students included, to question ideas. In the spirt of not flaming, I don't want a hug, I want poetry. I hope this listserv sees some poetry at noon. Or we hear it in the streets. Deborah Poe "Writers and politicians are natural rivals. Both groups try to make the world in their own images; they fight for the same territory." Salman Rushdie, Imaginary Homelands -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] <<>>> Minky, I'm not certain which fragmentation in particular you are referring to. It seems that there is a shared (for the most part) political vibe here, but as far as poetry, is it really the best thing to ask for unity from poets when it comes to poetry? There is nothing wrong with poets disagreeing, in fact, as a group, poets seem to be very disagreeable, and that could be seen as a valuable tool in this world where so much is asked of people, and passively agreed upon. In Germany they are entrenched in a national fight for and against extending the working week to 40 hours. It's so exciting to see such angry people, insisting that 40 hours is simply too traumatic for the human body to endure. Meanwhile, in America, MOST people work 40 to 50 hours a week, and have recently given up overtime pay. In an age of brand name, centralized intelligence, it's the disagreeable who are needed. Those who can say NO when they fucking mean it! Or Fuck Off, or whatever. Conflict is healthy, especially in the understanding and definition of poetics. The different groups --or fragments as you call them-- are formed with shared vitality, and it's got nothing to do with comparisons to political parties. Just because the election happened so recently, we don't need to be comparing every group to a political party. It's one thing for poets to be political, another for a poet to be a politician. Unity in some ways is far more destructive than it is anything else. Being disagreeable can be supportive, in that it forces each poet to be confronted with whether or not they really believe what it is they say. And if so, well then they can defend their argument. Asking poets to come together for a fuzzy hug is missing the point about HOW supportive taking a stand can turn out to be. CAConrad Amy King and I are talking on the phone, and we are talking about the fragmentation that seems to be happening on this listserv--so reflective--mirror of the Democratic party. How we can combat (ha ha) this fragmentation? Wasn't the spirit of this listserv (merry christmas) one of sharing and supporting each other in the business of poetry? Why can't there be poetry mobs? We've got this great tool (listserv) already organized .... ...http://www.wordspy.com/words/flashmob.asp http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/internet/08/04/flash.mob/... <><>at noon tomorrow, everyone post a poem...if you can't do so, recite a poem wherever you are at 3. tra la la, minky trollshine ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:37:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Digest for Wadjat@topica.com, issue 418 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit RAPPER O.D.B. COLLAP By kambonrb@pacbell.net From: Malaika Kambon Subject: HAITI / CUBA / AFRIKAN ANGER OVER SLAVERY MEMORIAL DELAY / RAPPER O.D.B. COLLAPSES, DIES IN STUDIO NEW AFRIKAN MILLENNIUM 14 NOVEMBER 2004 Rapper O.D.B. Collapses, Dies in Studio By NEKESA MUMBI MOODY, AP Music Writer http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~78~2534135,00.html NEW YORK - The rap artist O.D.B., whose utterly unique rhymes, wild lifestyle and incessant legal troubles made him one of the most vivid characters in hip-hop, collapsed and died inside a recording studio Saturday. He was 35. O.D.B. had complained of chest pains before collapsing at the Manhattan studio, and was dead by the time paramedics arrived, said Gabe Tesoriero, a spokesman for O.D.B.'s record label, Roc-a-Fella. The cause of death was not immediately clear, but O.D.B. had recently finished a prison sentence for drug possession and escaping a rehab clinic. He would have turned 36 on Monday. O.D.B., also known as ‘Ol' Dirty Bastard, Dirt McGirt, Big Baby Jesus or his legal name of Russell Jones was a founding member of the seminal rap group the Wu-Tang Clan in the early 1990s. With his unorthodox delivery — alternately slurred, hyper and nonsensical O.D.B. stood out even in the nine-man Clan, which featured such future stars as Method Man, RZA and Ghost face Killah. The Wu-Tang blueprint was for each member to pursue solo projects, and O.D.B.'s were among the best. He released hit singles such as "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" and "Got Your Money," and appeared on remixes with artists like Mariah Carey. "There's nobody like him in the game," RZA told The Associated Press in an April interview, when asked if O.D.B. could resume his career after prison. "He's got a lot of problems he's got to iron out, of course, but as far as a one-of-a-kind person, a one-of-a-kind artist, he's one of a generation, one of a lifetime. He's a very rare commodity." But as his fame increased, so did his erratic behavior, and fans came to expect the unexpected from O.D.B. When MTV News followed him around at the height of his popularity, he took the camera crew and several of his kids (he was said to have more than a dozen, by numerous mothers) to the welfare office in a limousine to get an allotment of food stamps. And he received them. In February 1998, he crashed the stage at the Grammy Awards and hijacked a microphone from singer Shawn Colvin as she accepted an award, apparently upset over losing the best rap album Grammy to P. Diddy (then known as Puff Daddy. He complained that he spent a lot of money for new clothes because he thought he was going to win. The rapper later apologized. Over the years, he was wounded in shootings and arrested on a veritable laundry list of charges, including menacing security officers, illegally possessing body armor, driving with a suspended license, shoplifting and threatening a former girlfriend. In 2000, after escaping a court-ordered stint in a California rehabilitation center, authorities searched for him for a month. He was finally arrested in Philadelphia three days after performing in a New York City concert with his Wu-Tang clique. He was sentenced in 2001 to two to four years in prison for drug possession, plus two concurrent years for escaping from the clinic. He was released in 2003 and immediately signed with Roc-a-Fella. He heralded his return with a news conference alongside singer Carey pop fans may know him best for his memorable cameo on her hit "Fantasy," featuring rhymes like "me and Mariah, go back like babies with pacifiers." Tesoriero said O.D.B. had been working on his comeback album for more than a year and was almost finished. "Russell inspired all of us with his spirit, wit, and tremendous heart," Roc-A-Fella founder Damon Dash said in a statement. "The world has lost a great talent, but we mourn the loss of our friend." His mother, Cherry Jones, said she received the news of her son's death in a phone call, which she called "every mother's worst dream." "To the public he was known as Old Dirty Bastard, but to me he was known as Rusty. The kindest most generous soul on earth," her statement said. "Russell was more than a rapper, he was a loving father, brother, uncle, and most of all, son." ******************************** ABC News Rapper O.D.B. Collapses, Dies in Studio Rapper O.D.B., Founding Member of Wu-Tang Clan, Collapses and Dies in Manhattan Recording Studio The Associated Press http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=251024 http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=250894 NEW YORK Nov 14, 2004 — The rap artist O.D.B., whose utterly unique rhymes, wild lifestyle and incessant legal troubles made him one of the most vivid characters in hip-hop, collapsed and died inside a recording studio Saturday. He was 35. O.D.B. had complained of chest pains before collapsing at the Manhattan studio, and was dead by the time paramedics arrived, said Gabe Tesoriero, a spokesman for O.D.B.'s record label, Roc-a-Fella. The cause of death was not immediately clear, but O.D.B. had recently finished a prison sentence for drug possession and escaping a rehab clinic. He would have turned 36 on Monday. O.D.B. also known as Ol' Dirty Bastard, Dirt McGirt, Big Baby Jesus or his legal name of Russell Jones was a founding member of the seminal rap group the Wu-Tang Clan in the early 1990s. With his unorthodox delivery alternately slurred, hyper and nonsensical O.D.B. stood out even in the nine-man Clan, which featured such future stars as Method Man, RZA and Ghostface Killah. The Wu-Tang blueprint was for each member to pursue solo projects, and O.D.B.'s were among the best. He released hit singles such as "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" and "Got Your Money," and appeared on remixes with artists like Mariah Carey. "There's nobody like him in the game," RZA told The Associated Press in an April interview, when asked if O.D.B. could resume his career after prison. "He's got a lot of problems he's got to iron out, of course, but as far as a one-of-a-kind person, a one-of-a-kind artist, he's one of a generation, one of a lifetime. He's a very rare commodity." But as his fame increased, so did his erratic behavior, and fans came to expect the unexpected from O.D.B. When MTV News followed him around at the height of his popularity, he took the camera crew and several of his kids (he was said to have more than a dozen, by numerous mothers) to the welfare office in a limousine to get an allotment of food stamps. And he received them. In February 1998, he crashed the stage at the Grammy Awards and hijacked a microphone from singer Shawn Colvin as she accepted an award, apparently upset over losing the best rap album Grammy to P. Diddy (then known as Puff Daddy). He complained that he spent a lot of money for new clothes because he thought he was going to win. The rapper later apologized. Over the years, he was wounded in shootings and arrested on a veritable laundry list of charges, including menacing security officers, illegally possessing body armor, driving with a suspended license, shoplifting and threatening a former girlfriend. In 2000, after escaping a court-ordered stint in a California rehabilitation center, authorities searched for him for a month. He was finally arrested in Philadelphia three days after performing in a New York City concert with his Wu-Tang clique. He was sentenced in 2001 to two to four years in prison for drug possession, plus two concurrent years for escaping from the clinic. He was released in 2003 and immediately signed with Roc-a-Fella. He heralded his return with a news conference alongside singer Carey pop fans may know him best for his memorable cameo on her hit "Fantasy," featuring rhymes like "me and Mariah, go back like babies with pacifiers." Tesoriero said O.D.B. had been working on his comeback album for more than a year and was almost finished. "Russell inspired all of us with his spirit, wit, and tremendous heart," Roc-A-Fella founder Damon Dash said in a statement. "The world has lost a great talent, but we mourn the loss of our friend." His mother, Cherry Jones, said she received the news of her son's death in a phone call, which she called "every mother's worst dream." "To the public he was known as Old Dirty Bastard, but to me he was known as Rusty. The kindest most generous soul on earth," her statement said. "Russell was more than a rapper, he was a loving father, brother, uncle, and most of all, son." Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Review related news at Sons And Daughters Of Afrika http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soa Black Indians Activists http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BlackIndianActivists Angry Indian http://www.geocities.com/angryindian/home.html Legacy Of Colonialism http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LegacyofColonialism Privacy-Forum http://groups.yahoo.com/group/privacy-forum CopWatch http://www.copwatch.com End of Wadjat@topica.com digest, issue 418 Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:48:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Dyer & Tabios at SPT this Fri 11/19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Friday, November 19, 2004 at 7:30 p.m. Geoffrey Dyer & Eileen Tabios Join us to hear from two local latter-day prose poets. According to the Poetry Project Newsletter, Oaklander Geoffrey Dyerùs debut, The Dirty Halo of Everything "unfolds a musical dream world, where travel logs, late night talks, and enigmatic characters are taken through a philosophically spiritual sense of interconnection." Eileen Tabios' books include Reproductions of the Empty Flagpole, Behind the Blue Canvas, and the just-published Menage a Trois with the 21st Century, which Kevin Killian says "moves from melting prose poetry to a fully lineated, musical demand for action...you will find yourself asking 'where is the world that is waiting to happen?'" & coming up: Thursday, December 2 at 7 PM JALAL TOUFIC Unless otherwise noted, events are $5-10, sliding scale, free to SPT members, and CCA faculty, staff, and students. Unless otherwise noted, our events are presented in Timken Lecture Hall California College of the Arts 1111 Eighth Street, San Francisco (just off the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin) Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:51:24 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: General Principle of Narrative (Violence) Under Capital Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great stuff Alan. -----Original Message----- From: Alan Sondheim Sent: Nov 15, 2004 12:09 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: General Principle of Narrative (Violence) Under Capital General Principle of Narrative (Violence) Under Capital 1. The general principal of narrative under capital is _withholding._ 2. In withholding, information, which would propel the narrative forward, is withheld in order to lengthen, not enrich, the diegetic flow. 3. Within capital, lengthening implies additional penny-dreadful or feuilleton segments. 4. This is accomplished by suspense, but beneath the 'sign of capital,' withholding is literally the order of the day. 5. Withholding is accompanied by local omniscience. 6. Example 0: In the book of Job, Yhwh waits until the three friends and Elihu have finishes their dialogs - at which point, the configuration of his power is enunciated. Note political economy, enumeration of children, servants, flocks, etc. 7. Example 1: In Dracula, Van Helsinger leads various people at various times to Lucy's crypt, demonstrating the corpse is or is not present, without explaining his belief in her vampirism, which is only revealed later. 8. Example 2: Almost any television/film: "What happened?" - "I don't have time to explain. Come with me." - or some such. 9. Example 3: Almost any US newscast? "Why did _x_? - We'll tell you after the break." 10. Example 4: The US military control of theoretically omniscient reportage or critique: the "embedded" journalist who becomes an advertisement for ideology and policy. 11. Example 5: Lyotard's differend returned with a vengeance: The withholding and withering of entire populations. 12. I don't have time to explain. Come with me. I can't tell you yet. We don't have any time to lose. You'll see in a while. We can't discuss this. We can't bring the cops in on this. The authorities would be all over us. We've got to go it alone. Believe in me. Trust me. 13. The Christology is apparent: Believe, not because it is absurd, but because of the fury of fast-forward time. Not a moment to lose: Kill the heathens. Fallujah? No time for the convoys. We've got to move on. We've got to move in. 14. The withholding promises a completion at _the end of time._ You'll see in a while. Hold your horses. Dramatic time is time deferred, pornographic time, differance-time. 15. The time of capital is continuous deferment. Iraq, Iran, Syria, USA, Belgium, Netherlands, France, Tiero del Fuego. The chain is random, arbitrary, except for the withholder. The withholder makes it up as it goes along. The withholder has a grand plan. The withholder is national. The withholder knows better. Re-elect Bush: We can't change horses in mid-stream. The driver knows. Withholding is always driven, always the sublimation and exfoliation, the production of capital. 16. What is withheld is almost always within the differend. What is withheld no longer speaks, not at all, or speaks only at the end of time. 17. The end of time when the differend speaks: defuge, useless, wastage. No one listens. The control of news is the control of the imminent, the explosion of the leading story. The rest is debris. 18. God sets the scene in Job. Gods speaks of the fecundity of the earth. God ensures his construct. Job is reduced either to silence or acquiescence. The dialog is over. 19. Withholding has moved from biblical narrative through popular narrative into the heart of news. It drives narrative forward. It has eliminated other forms of suspense; the "whodunit" has been replaced by the unfolding of Armageddon. Look at the Rapture, grown into an Amerikan industry; look at our Wars themselves. We know whodunit; we watch the pornography of unfolding, the _pli,_ the baroque which hides the raw vicissitudes of Power. 20. Omniscience is hidden, parcelling out effect and affect. Omniscience is the Amerikan lie come true, the lie of capital, planetary corrosion. The largest life-forms are fungal nets beneath the soil in the upper Mid-West. The largest life-masses are the single-celled organisms occupying rock strata beneath the surface of the earth. God waited while everyone talked. The news promises the answer to the question after the commercial. 21. The commercial is delivered; the news is the hiatus, the gap. At times (CNN Headline News for example), the question is not even answered; it is forgotten in the rush of passing content. "Whatever happened to Baby Jane? - News at 10." At 10, the news is silent, but the audience is present, continuing the violating narrative of the planet, what capital allows to pass for news. 22. "To be distracted by questions of administrative forms, race hatreds, man hunts, or socialisation of everything but the national debt, is merely swallowing the sucker-bait." (Ezra Pound, 1953.) 23. The ultimate withholding occurs with the _manhunt_ which is already foreclosed. The manhunt distracts from the world. The double-withholding: capital offers the scapegoat; the dead and wounded in Fallujah are withheld. Withholding occurs in the midst of battle which is never announced, never enunciated. Withholding creates a _story._ A _story_ promises an _ending._ An _ending_ promises a _suture._ Everything is returned to normalcy; everything recovers. 24. A _suture_ promises an _ego._ A _suture_ promises a nuclear family. A _suture_ promises infinity of Power which structures the suture itself. Such an infinity is Deity. Dissect withholding and Deity always appears. Withholding is at the beck and call of Fundamentalism, a tool of Fundamentalism. Withholding promises absolute information, the power of the Absolute. 25. One withholds because one _knows._ One knows absolutely. The world divides into the known and unknown. The known is privileged, class. Withholding is power masquerading as the simulacrum of power. 26. "Trust me. We'll get out of here alive." +++ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:36:19 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: 12 thirty in newfoundland Comments: To: Minky Starshine In-Reply-To: <000201c4cb23$f0a84530$49e71842@poedic7646qfpt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mullet Girl I like the way she smokes her cigarette, after cigarette, after cigarette Clumsy walking in high heel shoes, gets to choose her own rules. Get your hand off my drink mullet girl Get your hand off my drink mullet girl Red velvet dress & bleeding knees, when she steals your smokes you wont be pleased She can be cuddly to, but only when shes clad in blue Get your hand off my drink mullet girl Get your hand off my drink mullet girl You know you want her hot little ass She might share, if you sweetly ask. Slap your cheeks, smash you teeth But shes a pussy cat underneath. Smashing glasses, screaming verbal, abuse its no use, theres no excuse Come on Missus, save me a draw, but she dont share, shes a greedy broad. Get your hand off my drink mullet girl Get your hand off my drink mullet girl She is reeling But she wants more She wants to be shit faced This girl wants to score Two shots of tequila Leather pants Take her home But shell run if she gets the chance She likes mary jane and Mary Janes, acting insane, shes got nar shame Party in the back, business up front, dont be fooled by her, this girl is a punk. Get your hand off my drink mullet girl Get your hand off my drink mullet girl When you wake up late at night, shes no there, no where in sight She crept out quiet as a mouse, with only her sweater left at your house Get your hand off my drink mullet girl Get your hand off my drink mullet girl You thought she wanted to hold you hand, but you were wrong you misunderstand She doesnt want you there is no doubt, she ran off so fast, her dress is inside out Get your hand off my drink mullet girl Get your hand off my drink mullet girl ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:22:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bradley Redekop Subject: i'm not hoarding contact info, really! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Subscribers, Please don't be surprise by my letter since there is no formal introduction. I promised not to post in the voyeurism. I am ready like a cop. I walked right up to the Mark E Smith. Said I was looking to score in the noise scene. I miss those frail, honest lines that trail off too late. Do you? I harnessed, quite ingeniously, your ears with my life. Only, really, I didn’t! >>≠π∞Û¶—¡Û¶b•Œ¿\Æ…∂°´o§@≠”´»§H§]®S¶≥°C¡ŸØ‡¶≥∏ÚßA§@∞_∫∆™∫™B§Õ∂‹? I'm sorry I cannot read the Chinese in the emails you sent me. But I have watched the music video and looked at the picture. >>Ok , I will waiting for your phone call. or, conversely, as soon as i deduce that everything i try turns to shit and decide to stay in XXXXXXXX forever, i'll just give you her email and you can masquerade as the friend the sexiest smell you've ever had on you fingers is your own piss. why don't you fuck off to a chatroom and stop wasting our time. Some people like Greil Marcus, cannot handle all of my amplitude, while clearly YOU can. Back Demons! Hwa-cha! You can see my impression of Raymond Carver has failed miserably. -- Bradley ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:46:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Cloverfield Press -- forwarded announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Friends, We are pleased to announce Cloverfield Press, a boutique publishing company dedicated to bringing great writing, design and artwork to a discerning public. We are launching Cloverfield Press with our New Writers Series ? short works of fiction in editions of six hundred (each copy numbered and signed), individually bound with hand letterpressed covers and dust-jackets, designed and printed by Elinor Nissley, and with illustrations by emerging and world-class artists. We invite you to experience our first two titles, The Museum of Contemporary Art, written and illustrated by Carol Treadwell and Ventura County, written by Laurence Dumortier and illustrated by Lecia Dole-Recio. File: image.tiff (16Kbytes) File: image.tiff (19Kbytes) We think you will find our books as pleasing to look at and touch as they are satisfying to read (and may we add, they are perfect for holiday gift-giving!) Books are available for purchase directly from the Cloverfield Press website at www.cloverfieldpress.com/titles.html. If you are in the Los Angeles area on December 10 we invite you to come to our reading and launch party. Invitations to follow! All our best, Matthew Greenfield and Laurence Dumortier ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:05:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: upcoming readings/films in San Francisco In-Reply-To: <005f01c4cbfb$2faf1650$b0d45443@Jesse> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll be reading a couple times in the next few weeks (see below); Konrad Steiner is curating a series of poetry films, a collaboration between SF Cinematheque and The Poetry Center; and we'll close out the Fall reading season with Pireeni Sundaralingam and Chuck Stebelton (direct from Chicago!) on Saturday, December 11 (visit the Habenicht Press web site for more info -- www.habenichtpress.com).=20 _____ =20 San Francisco Cinematheque and The Poetry Center at SFSU present=20 =20 Moving Picture Poetics: Sampling Fifty Years of Poets and Cinema http://www.sfcinematheque.org/programs.shtml#266 - A series of screenings devoted to poets and the moving image - Program 1 Musings Thursday, November 18 at 7:30pm Yerba Buena Center for the Arts 701 Mission Street (corner of Third) (There are several more programs, please visit the web site)=20 _____ =20 Micah Ballard, poet, publisher of Auguste Press, Cajun hot hand at dice and Ryan Newton have embarked upon organizing a Fall poetry reading series BLEEDING ROSES=20 featuring poets of every stripe in an intimate setting (along with beautiful/campy dripping flower flyers).=20 Will Skinker & David Hadbawnik Friday night, 7:30 pm > November 19th > 3322 26th St=20 at South VanNess 414-550-8267=20 _____ =20 All Poets Welcome Series=20 WHEN & WHERE:=20 The Gallery Caf=E9 at 1200 Mason @ Washington 7PM on Mon, Dec 6=20 Melissa Benham David Hadbawnik Roger Snell=20 Open mic follows=20 _____ =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:55:27 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: A poem at noon - Coitus Interruptus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit COITUS INTERRUPTUS Naked at the window, my wife calls me as if someone is dying, and someone almost is, pinned to the concrete face down beneath the fists and feet and knees of three policemen. I'm still hard from before she jumped out of bed to answer the question I was willing not to ask when the siren stopped on our block, but now I'm here, and I see the man is Black, and how can I not bear witness? They've cuffed him, but the uniforms continue to crowd our street, and the blue-and-whites keep coming, as if called to war, as if the lives in all these darkened homes were truly at stake, and that's the thing- who can tell from up here?-maybe we're watching our salvation without knowing it. Above our heads, a voice calls out "Fucking pigs!" but the ones who didn't drag the man into a waiting car and drive off refuse the bait. They talk quietly, gathered beneath the streetlamp in the pale circle of light the man was beaten in, and then a word we cannot hear is given and the cops wave each other back to their vehicles, the flash and sparkle of their driving off throwing onto the wall of our room a shadow of the embrace my wife and I have been clinging to. When I was sixteen, Tommy, who was white, brought to my room before he left the Simon and Garfunkel tape I'd put back among his things the previous night. He placed it on the bookshelf near the door he'd slammed in my face two days earlier when he was holding a butcher's cleaver to my mother's life. I wanted to run after him and smash it at his feet; I wanted to grab him by the scruff of the neck and crush it in his face, to dangle him over the side of our building with one ankle in my left hand and the Greatest Hits in my right and ask him which I should let drop. But I didn't, couldn't really: he was much too big, and I was not a fighter. The eight track sat on the shelf for weeks, and there were days when I forgot it was there, and days when I chose to forget, and days when I picked it up, pressing a spider web of cracks into the plastic, but I always put the music down. I told myself I liked the songs more than I hated Tommy, but I knew I was lying, just as, behind these thoughts, I know one of my best friends has chosen to stay with her son in the house where her husband has already hit her once with a cast iron frying pan and once with his hands, and so there is no reason to believe she is not at this moment cringing bruised and bleeding in a corner of their bedroom, or that she is not, with her boy and nothing else in her arms, running the way my mother didn't have a chance to run, and there's nothing I can do but look at the clock-Sunday, 11:11 PM-and remind myself it's too late to call, that my calls have caused trouble for her already. When I called the cops to get Tommy out of our home, the deep male voice, calm authority on the other end, asked "Son, are you sure your mom's in there against her will?" Somehow-the words are gone from me- I gave him the more-than-yes he needed and two hours later they pushed Tommy in handcuffs out the front door, past where my mother sat, head in hands, quiet, unmoving, and I did not know from where inside my own rage and terror to pull the comfort I should have offered her. The officer making sure Tommy didn't trip or run, winked at me, smiling as if what had happened were suddenly a secret between us, and this our signal that everything was okay. I remember the night of my sophomore year, walking the road girdling the campus: Up ahead, a woman's voice pleading a man's shouting to stop. A car door slamming, engine revving, and then wheels digging hard and fast into driveway dirt that when I got there was a dust cloud obscuring the blue vehicle's rear plate. The woman sprawled on the asphalt, her black dress spread around her like a portal her wrapped-in-a-white-shawl upper body emerged from. I extended my hand to help her up, but she pulled the cloth away from her feet, which were bleeding. I drove her- she sat next to me without speaking, staring straight ahead-to where her shoes had fallen off, spaghetti strap sandals torn and twisted beyond repair, and then to her home, two rooms in a neighborhood house. After I settled her onto the bed that was her only furniture, and filled a warm-water basin to soak her feet, and he had not hit her, so there was nothing to report, she said she was afraid and would I sit with her a while. We talked about her home in Seoul, the man her parents picked for her, but she didn't want a Korean husband, and here she laughed-first trickle of spring water down a winter mountain- "So instead I take from Egypt! I so stupid!" Then: "What you think? Can man and woman sleep same bed without sex?" I said yes. "So, please, tonight, you stay here? Maybe he coming back. He fear white American like you." I was not a fighter, but I stayed, and in the morning when I left, she said "kamsahamnida"-thank you- and she bowed low, and she did not ask my name, nor I hers, and though I sometimes looked for her on campus, I never saw her again. Just like Tommy. Just like the Black woman who lived downstairs before I got married, whose cries-"Help! Please! He's killing me!"-and the dead thud of him, also Black, throwing her against the wall, and his screaming- "Shut up, bitch! Fucking whore!"-filled the space till I was drowning. The desk sergeant didn't ask if I knew beyond a doubt that she was being beaten, but when she opened her front door to the two men he sent, she shrieked the way women shriek in bad horror movies when they know they're going to die, and I almost felt sorry for calling. A few weeks later, a voice on the phone: "You know what's going on below you, right? Please, tape a message to the door: 'Mr. Peters has been trying to reach you.' Nothing else. And whatever you do, don't sign it." For a month all was quiet. Then, coming home early from work I walked upstairs past people moving furniture out of her apartment. "No one ever wants to get involved, right?" a thin white man in shorts and a t-shirt whispered bitter behind me. I kept walking the way Tommy did when he saw me trying to catch his eye: head down, gaze nailed to the floor, and then he was gone, and the questions I wanted to ask him never became words. That tape was all I had, till one day, cleaning house, my mother held it up: "Do you still want this?" "I never play it." "Throw it out then." So I did. _________________________________ Richard Jeffrey Newman Associate Professor, English Chair, International Education Committee Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu www.ncc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:59:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Stephen Baraban Subject: "The Save-Your-Soul Soapboxers" (poem) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The Save-Your-Soul Soapboxers Gospel-shouters with microphones, each day ruining the pleasure of brown-bag or vendor-bought lunch on the steps of Manhattan's 42nd Street library. The ever-patient exquisite stone lions are biding their time-- the fierce day will come they'll stir and loose their soul-thrilling rebuttal. 1984/2004 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:00:52 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: the only agreement that matters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we made the first month - Bethel too sweet was the nectar too drunk on our power we came then we conquered and rained fire down upon our own heads and after the stones had fallen from heaven after the long night when life began greening we picked up the god stones and hid them in boxes forgetting we made both the ark and the stones the birch tree and roebuck the bethel and baetyl were made in agreement a simple beginning we just can't remember we are the architects we are the home we are agreement in flesh and bone in the black of the night in the white of the sun we're only and infinite we're each just one as an early birch tree or stones fallen from heaven they call us to remember our hunger is leaven Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:27:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: A poem at noontime In-Reply-To: <20041115165537.ROCV4017.out006.verizon.net@Richard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bad traffic and lateness for class and my car-written piece (Minky's follows since she posted twice): No Shadow At High Noon I have seen skies as blue as diamonds, lakes as deep as some rivers tarry, hands murmuring in rhythm to god, hair fly off of heads at the drop of a hat, and a red purse on the arm of a friend. My own sleeves are often missing in action, and I can’t recall which sentence invites conjugal visits when everyone wants a story. This listserv has brought many pens to the brink and made many fingers motionless, but I’ve never seen poems as lovely as the ones you profess today And Minky's: Sidereal 1. at 8 in the morning there is a man standing at the foot of a building he looks as if he’s ready to serenade but no those days are over she’s finally given him the boot last night at the karaoke bar he had moved so well to Aretha everyone had begun to dance even the tortillas and the chips well maybe his eyes lingered too long on the back of someone else’s body but she had never cared so much before he’s standing below her window now without a key, throwing rocks. 2. you could make the story different. let’s say the tractor could make it all the way back. or the fishing line could reach that far. you could be without aspirations! you could eat less vegetables! you could make the story different! the fish walked up to the farmer and noticed his mole. the farmer was a mirror. the mirror was a tractor. the fishing line drug the tractor. that’s how she got away. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:07:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: commodification & thongs In-Reply-To: <025801c4cb17$0d7bccc0$220110ac@unlikelydesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My Dear Mr. Penton: I must take exception to your public reprimand. I would think your organization would appreciate my efforts to assist in the promotion of the merchandise in the Vernon Frazer product line. It seemed perfectly appropriate to offer Mr. Kehir personal service to show that I, as author and commodity, stand behind my product, on those rare occasions when I am not actually wearing it. If, for example, Mr. Kehir wanted to wear a diphthong to impress prospective lovers at his nearest pool, it seemed good business to offer him assistance. My extra effort might, for example, have inspired him to buy the Commercial Fiction Lunchbox. Good customer service generates business, as you should well know. Moreover, your reprimand contradicts your previous actions. In a recent post to this list, you recently offered list members a black pen for a $25 purchase of Vernon Frazer products. In the context, one could safely assume they were thongs. I fail to understand why you can promote my product, but I cannot. Apparently you have forgotten that, regardless of our contractual arrangements, I am my own commodity. I will, however, and with utmost reluctance, withdraw my offer to promote the Vernon Frazer product line to Mr. Kehir. I assume, however, that you will make every effort to provide him the personalized customer service which I had intended to offer him, along with my sincerest apologies. Should you persist in treating me as a mere commodity, I will have no choice but to invite you to the Fifth Street Gym on your next visit to Miami. Yours (by contractual arrangement only), Vernon Frazer, Commodity *The contents of this letter are a confidential and private satire. If you are reading this and you are not Jonathan Penton, you are legally obliged to pluck your eyes out and set them aflame, or buy a thong.* -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jonathan Penton Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 8:29 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: commodification & thongs Dear Mr. Frazer, It has come to our attention that you have offered to modify one of our products for a customer, on the grounds that said customer wanted to be different. We must ask that you cease and desist this action immediately. As you know, as a commercial writer, your job is to sell our products, and while your book at http://www.unlikelystories.org/frazer0604.shtml is one of our products, it is not the primary source of income your commercialism represents. Our product line, and the style represented thereby, is an important part of our company's image, and you are not authorized to tamper or modify that image in any way. We have not yet been successful in prosecuting all incidents of the tampering of our image that http://www.unlikelystories.org/frazer0604.shtml represents, but in time, we will. We expect you to retract your offer without necessitating action against you, action we are fully prepared to take. Sincerely, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org *The contents of this letter are a confidential and private satire. If you are reading this and you are not Vernon Frazer, you are legally obliged to pluck your eyes out and set them aflame.* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:29:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: how many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, fellow moonbeam travelers! New at www.unlikelystories.org: Three hip-hop tracks by 337 Screw Avalon Frost interviews Sketta Lee of 337 Screw DIVE!afrique, a montage of text and images by Cecelia Chapman Four more visual images by Cecelia Chapman Dead End Days, Episode 15: a short film on life after the zombie/human accord And tons of new items in the Unlikely Store. (duh) Fight the Man, or possibly Janet Jackson's dirty pillows! -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:33:07 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: how many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb? In-Reply-To: <010501c4cb41$161c9060$220110ac@unlikelydesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Fish. Or, Seven: one to find a banana and six to put the clocks in the bathtub. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:51:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Dirty Talk Political Commentary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those of you who like dirty politics http://www.liegirls.com/flash.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:41:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Simply Haiku Comments: To: Webartery , Invent-L , ASLE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > SIMPLY HAIKU > > /_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > "The online showcase for > Japanese short form poetry" > /_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > > THE WINTER ISSUE > _____________________ > > www.simplyhaiku.com > _____________________ > > November 16th > _______________________ > > FEATURING: > > Essays: > > Patricia Fister > Hirosaki Sato > Bruce Ross > Steve McCarty > Michael Rehling > > Interviews: > > Joel Weishaus > Rich Krawiec > A.C. Missias > Alan Pizzarelli > > Book Reviews: > > The Healing Spirit of Haiku by David Rosen and Joel Weishaus > Chrysanthemum Love by Fay Aoyagi > One Potato Two Potato Etc by Anita Virgil > > Haiku: > > Fay Aoyagi > Kat Avila > Dylan Brennan > Marili Deandrea > Juanito Escareal > Masako Ito > Helen S. Jones > Anna Poplawska > Chad Lee Robinson > Gabriel Rosenstock > Bruce Ross > Ann Schwader > Johnye Strickland > > Tanka: > > Melissa Dixon > Margarita Engle > William J. Higginson > Allen McGill > Alan Pizzarelli > > Haibun: > > Gary Ford > Izabel Sonia Ganz > Graham Nunn > Bruce Ross > Robert D. Wilson > > > Renku: > > ~Shisan: Autumn Communion, English > ~Shisan: Autumn Communion, Japanese > .Contributors: Shigeto Kobayashi, Junko Nagashima, Kikuyo Sugiura, > Midori Suzuki, Eiko Yachimoto > ~Shisan: Autumn Equinox, English > ~Shisan: Autumn Equinox, Japanese > ...Contributors: David Burleigh, Hirofumi Hatsuzawa, Hiroshi > Tamura, > Tateshi Tsukamoto > ~Shisan: This Persimmon Fall, English > ~Shisan: This Persimmon Fall, Japanese > .Contributors: Yoshiko Ehara, Shinku Fukuda, Kris Kondo, Sumiko > Sudo, > Yoshiko Uchiyama > ~Junicho: Another Pond > .Contributors: Shokan Tadashi Kondo, Raffael de Gruttola, Peter Zay > Raffael de Gruttola Essay: Title to Follow > ~Shokan Tadashi Kondo: Introduction to Kaleidoscopic Mandala > ~Wifred Croteau & Raffael de Gruttola: > Programme Cover for Kaleidoscopic Mandala > ...Kaleidoscopic Mandala Participants: Wilfred Croteau, Raffael de > Gruttola, Arawana Hyashi, Shokan Tadashi Kondo, Thomas Allen > LeVines, > Yumiko Matsuoka, Kiyoko Morita, Susannah Sayler, William Tipton > Thrasher > ~Kaleidoscopic Mandala: Hawk Feather > ...Contributors: Arawana Hyashi, Shokan Tadashi Kondo, > Thomas Allen LeVines, Yumiko Matsuoka > > > Classical Haiga: > > David Bull > Susan Frame > Tagami Kikusha > > > Modern Haiga: > > an'ya > Ed Baker > Jim Kacian > Karina Klesko > Arthur Okamura > Yasuhiko Shirota > Geert Verbeke > Jennifer Virgil Gurchinoff and Anita Virgil > > > William Higginson's Haiku Clinic: > > > Reprints: > > Season Words by Dhugal J. Lindsay > Zen and the Art of Haiku by Anna Poplawska > Metaphor in Basho's Haiku by Jane Reichold > > > And, of course, lots of news, competitions, and announcements. . . > ____________________________________ > > ALL ISSUES ARE ARCHIVED for 24/7 access > ____________________________________ > > Our next issue goes online > February 15, 2005 > ____________________________________ > > > SIMPLY HAIKU > > /_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > "The online showcase for > Japanese short form poetry" > /_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > > THE WINTER ISSUE > _____________________ > > www.simplyhaiku.com > _____________________ > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:21:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: trolls and fragments Comments: To: amyhappens@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 15-Nov-04, at 6:56 AM, amy king wrote: > Good grief, no one is dissing disagreement. I'm sorry, but I can't agree. Disagreement is just something I can't go along with. gb ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:23:19 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 11-15-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WORKSHOPS Starting This Week The Art of Transformation Instructors: Jimmie Gilliam and Laurie Dean Torrell 3 Tuesdays, 11/16, 11/23, and 11/30 from 6:30-8:30 In The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo $90, $75 for members Transformations offer an opportunity to enlarge imagination and expand the sense of what is possible in both life and artistic work. Beginning again - suspending judgement, re-framing the familiar, being willing to change direction - these artistic practices can be employed to navigate times of change, and can be used to create new work. In this workshop we will mine experience, and use the texts The Art of Possibility: Transforming Professional and Personal Life by Rosamund Stone Zander and Benjamin Zander, and Trust the Process: An Artist's Guide to Letting Go by Shaun McNiff. Through discussion and writing exercises we will explore the subject of transformation. Participants will have the opportunity to create and share original essays and poems, and within the three-week period, receive individual critique if desired. Poet As Architect, with Marj Hahne One Saturday Session, November 20, 12-5 p.m. $50, $40 for members Li-Young Lee says that poetry has two mediums-language and silence-and that language (the material) inflects silence (the immaterial) so that we can experience (hear) our inner space. In this workshop, we will step outside our familiar poetic homes and build new dwellings (temples and taverns!), utilizing such timber as sound patterns, found text, and invented forms. We will explore the structural possibilities of language to ultimately answer the question: How does form serve content? Both beginning and practiced poets will generate lots of original writing from this full day of language play and experimentation, and will bring home a fresh eye with which to revisit old poems stuck in the draft stage. For more information, or to register, call 832-5400 or download the registration form from our website at www.justbuffalo.org Upcoming: The Working Writer Seminar, with Kathryn Radeff: The Art and Craft of Creative Nonfiction Saturday, December 11, 12-4 p.m. $50, $40 members IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM Harriet K. Feder and Workshop Participants Read from works for Children and Teens Friday, November 19, 8 p.m. Harriet K. Feder, a former editor of Tom Thumb's Magazine and instructor for the Institute of Children's Literature, has published books for everyone from toddlers to teens in the US and abroad.. Her most recent young adult novel, Death On Sacred Ground was a 2002 nominee for both Edgar and Agatha awards; a Sidney Taylor Notable Book; a Children's Literature Choice; and a New York Public Library Teen Choice. Her writing has won her a Woman of Accomplishment Legacy Project Award along with such other Western New York notables as Lucille Ball, Joyce Carol Oates, Virginia Kroll, and Gerda Klein. She is a member of the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators, Mystery Writers of America, Sisters in Crime, Author's Guild, and Pennwriters of PA. Upcoming: December 3: Writers Group Reading Series, hosted by Karen Lewis, Featuring: North Side Writers Group December 8: Open Reading, hosted by Livio Farallo WORLD OF VOICES November 29- December 3: Frances Richey Tuesday, Nov. 30, 4-5:30 p.m. at The American Red Cross, 786 Delaware Ave., Buffalo Love across Distance: A Writing Workshop for military families and friends. Those dealing with deployment, or a loved one serving in uncertain circumstances, can be subject to stress and worry. This workshop will include a reading and writing workshop, and will be geared to the experience of having a loved one in the military. Wednesday, Dec. 1, 7-8:30 p.m. at The Himalayan Institute, 841 Delaware Ave., Buffalo Poetry & Healing: A Reading and Talk which will include insights from Richey 's 25-year practice of yoga and meditation. Thursday, Dec. 2, 3-5 p.m. at Erie County Medical Center, Grider in Buffalo Writing: A Path to Healing and Way Back from Burnout (Reading and Talk) open to medical professionals from any organization. Thursday, Dec. 2, 6-8 p.m. at Gilda's Club, 1140 Delaware Ave., Buffalo Musical Words: An Evening Writing Workshop for people living with cancer, their friends and families. Participants are invited to bring a favorite poem, short prose piece, or saying. COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS ERIE COUNTRY LIBRARIES AND CULTURAL ORGANIZATIONS UNDER THREAT All 52 libraries across Erie County will close their doors after January 1st under Erie County's proposed 2005 operating budget. This budget cuts support to the Buffalo and Erie County Public Library by more than $19 million -- an 80% reduction in the System's operating funds. Please communicate your need for library services and other cultural organizations to your County Legislator, State Senator and State Assemblyperson. For public official contact information and a sample letter, visit http://www.buffalolib.org/libraries/advocacy.asp. Keep checking the Library's website, www.buffalolib.org, for updates and information on future advocacy efforts. Your support is greatly appreciated! TALKING LEAVES H.G. Carrillo Reading & Book Signing, Loosing My Espanish Wednesday, November 17, 7 p.m., Main St. Store Isabella Bannerman Book Signing, 2005 Six Chix Day-at-a-Time calendar Thursday, Nov 18, 7 pm, to WED. @ 4 PLUS AT UB NORTH CAMPUS Carolyn Forche Poetry Reading Forche will read from her work and her translations of Turkish poet Nazim Hikmet Wednesday at noon at The Poetry Collection, 420 Capen Hall. Jalal Toufic Talk: "Saving the Living Human's Face and Backing the Mortal: Wed., Nov. 17, 4 pm; Poetry/Rare Books Collection, 420 Capen Hall Film Screening Wed., Nov. 17, 8 pm; Squeaky Wheel (175 Elmwood Avenue) Talk: "The Withdrawal of Tradition Past a Surpassing Disaster" Thurs., Nov. 18, 4 pm; Poetry/Rare Books Collection, 420 Capen Hall BURCHFIELD-PENNEY POETS & WRITERS SERIES AT BUFFALO STATE COLLEGE Mark Fulk, Matt Chambers, Mike Tritto, November 21 at 2 p.m. Free. BUFFALO AND ERIE COUNTY HISTORICAL SOCIETY Special evening shopping hours featuring local authors personalizing, FREE, their publications on WNY subjects! What a great gift idea! Buffalo and Erie County Historical Society Museum Shop Elmwood Avenue and Nottingham Terrace Wednesday, December 1, 5-8 p.m. Open to the public Call 873-9644 ext. 301 or visit our website www.bechs.org _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:44:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Sentence in San Francisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In celebration of the second issue of Sentence: A Journal of Prose Poetics, a reading on the campus of University of San Francisco: Chris Stroffolino Sally Ashton Dean Rader R. L. Rimas Hugh Steinberg Lone Mountain, Room 100 (Handley Room), Tuesday, Nov. 16, 7:00 pm (reading starts at 7:30) http://www.usfca.edu/online/gen_info/map_c.html Copies of Sentence 2 and subscription forms will be available! Help us earn a few subscriptions and thereby ensure future issues. Many thanks to Sean McLain Brown for helping to organize this event. If you ask him nicely, he might read some of his excellent work, too. Brian Clements, Editor http://firewheel-editions.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:15:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: po In-Reply-To: <000001c4c9bc$98d8b4b0$97e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jonathan wrote: ..| it struck me as curious: drn ..| almost always faithfully posts ..| two poems a day I think that if you look closer you will notice that drn began his series in 'Late Spring' and if you observe his subject titles you can assume his series has a point, a direction, a season even, and aims at moving full-cycle -- a reconciliation both lush and constructive. For instance, Tudor mansion in England was elaborately built with 52 staircases and 365 rooms... Others who have posted here with exuberance only endured for a short time (a very short time, relatively) compared to Alan who persists with the perseverance of a ghost. I am convinced of Alan's work, I cannot help but admit that. I just encourage him to reach out beyond the supererogatory which is his comfort and security and extend himself as I understand it. I applaud A.S.'s creations -- but do they need to be delivered with such pervasiveness (ie. without season)? Even so, I would hope there is room on this list not only for Alan, but for others as well, and for criticisms of Alan; that the list isn't so single-minded or obstinate to only continue as a memory of itself. -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:57:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: po In-Reply-To: <000001c4cb60$aeaf75d0$95e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Personally I'd love to see more work here; on the wryting list, we have about 5-15 pieces a day, some by people posting daily or more. There's no problem. There's no problem reading what one wants on the Poetics list as well. drn's doing the season to be sure, but he was also writing rather terrific pieces well before that if I remember correctly - he just does that - Alan On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, derekrogerson wrote: > Jonathan wrote: > ..| it struck me as curious: drn > ..| almost always faithfully posts > ..| two poems a day > > > I think that if you look closer you will notice that drn began his > series in 'Late Spring' and if you observe his subject titles you can > assume his series has a point, a direction, a season even, and aims at > moving full-cycle -- a reconciliation both lush and constructive. For > instance, Tudor mansion in England was elaborately built with 52 > staircases and 365 rooms... > > Others who have posted here with exuberance only endured for a short > time (a very short time, relatively) compared to Alan who persists with > the perseverance of a ghost. > > I am convinced of Alan's work, I cannot help but admit that. I just > encourage him to reach out beyond the supererogatory which is his > comfort and security and extend himself as I understand it. I applaud > A.S.'s creations -- but do they need to be delivered with such > pervasiveness (ie. without season)? > > Even so, I would hope there is room on this list not only for Alan, but > for others as well, and for criticisms of Alan; that the list isn't so > single-minded or obstinate to only continue as a memory of itself. > > > -- Derek > > recent http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/files/ recent related to WVU http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm partial mirror at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:56:19 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: trolls and fragments I disagree toadally!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I cant agree wiht disagreeing with agreement and agreeing to agree on disagreement which is more or less (shut up!) agreeing to disagree which is disagreeable if if not stupid (for Christ's sake - shut up! go away!!) given that to agree is to disagree in a certain degree if you agree of if you dont agree (go away - all your ideas a re WRONG! your with me or for me! or your against me!! ha! (bastard)) its always what goes on in your head dont you disagree ..there are those what have a degree you see but what disagree or degree of agree is disagree to become glee? ( You are a Toad or a Troll - go away!!) Agree to agree or I will become very very disagreable (stuff it !!) and agree that you agree when you dont disagree with me or agree with glee (just like a stupid flea) so i'll get me morning coffee and see if anyone is being diagreeable outside my window (the other side of which there nothing coital ever - so who are you!!?? eh!!!??? hm???) but probably I agree with the sea a troll limps down the dusty road seeking Rihcard Taylor New Zeaoland PS this is not noon as noon in around Eastern Time US is about 5 am to 6am in Kiwiland (daylight saving comlicates things) and such uncivilised hours dont see this old coot compis mentis (if he ever is ro was ro could be or would be or could agree to be.....) ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: Re: trolls and fragments > On 15-Nov-04, at 6:56 AM, amy king wrote: > > > Good grief, no one is dissing disagreement. > > I'm sorry, but I can't agree. Disagreement is just something I can't go > along with. > > gb > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:02:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: FW: Paris Review Interviews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The DNA of Literature: http://parisreview.org/literature.php Between now and next July, The Paris Review will be putting all of its 300+ writers-at-work interviews online, starting with those from the 1950s: T.S. ELIOT - 1959 On the role of 'place' in his work: " . . . putting it as modestly as I can, it wouldn't be what it is if I'd been born in England, and it wouldn't be what it is if I'd stayed in America." DOROTHY PARKER - 1956 "Gertrude Stein did us the most harm when she said, 'You're all a lost generation.' That got around to certain people and we all said, 'Whee! We're lost.'" Release dates for remaining PDFs: 1950s: Online Now 1960s: January 10, 2005 (Burroughs, Creeley, Ginsberg, Kerouac, Moore, Pound, WCW, Lowell, more..) 1970s: February 14, 2005 (MacLeish, Neruda, Olson, Sexton, etc.) 1980s: April 4, 2005 (Kunitz.....awww...) 1990s: May 16, 2005 (look them up...) 2000s: July 1, 2005 (...for yourself...H.S.t.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:13:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: shtut MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed shtut I am away, speaking (as if the speech were distant from me (as if it had nothing to do with me and therefore (as if there were a logic to it (as if it were always already completed I can't reply (as if I'm not speaking (as if I'm not speaking anyway as if I were not away (as if I were somewhere else (a recognition on your part that I'm away, not simply away from you, but away from sense, reason, the organs of speech, the organs of sense, the organs of reason logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic to to to to it it it (as (as (as if if it it were were always already already completed I I can't reply reply (as if I'm I'm not speaking (as if I'm I'm not speaking anyway as if I were not away (as if I were somewhere else (a recognition on your part that I'm away, not simply away from you, but away from from sense, reason, the organs of speech, the organs of sense, sense, the organs of reason reason reason of organs the the sense, of organs the speech, of of organs the reason, sense, from away but you, from away simply not away, I'm that part your on recognition (a else somewhere were I if (as away not were I if as anyway anyway speaking not I'm if (as speaking not not I'm if (as (as reply can't I I completed already already always always were were it it if if (as (as it it it to to to to logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic logic to to to to it it (as (as (as if if it it were were always always already completed completed I can't can't reply (as if if I'm not speaking (as (as if I'm not speaking anyway as if I were not not away (as if I were somewhere else (a recognition on your part that I'm away, not simply away from you, but away from sense, reason, the organs of speech, the organs organs of sense, the organs of of reason ((((((((((((( ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:44:00 -0500 Reply-To: Michael Bogue Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Bogue Subject: Re: Smoking at readings & elsewhere In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:29:04 -0500 (EST), Gwyn McVay wrote: > > I recall when I worked for Greenpeace *everyone* smoked. They gave me > > sh*t for buying a burger in a (gasp!) styrofoam container, then > > proceeded to dump carcinogens in their lungs & go on about how much > > pot they were going to smoke that night. > > > To be fair, there are ways to inhale pot (bong, vaporizer) more safely; > it takes less pot to catch the required buzz than it does tobacco, so pot > smokers inhale less total material; and nobody with even a single brain > cell left would ruin good bud with the kind of chemicals routinely added > to cigarettes. It is, of course (hi, Alice B.!), possible to ingest > cannabis or take it sublingually, but smoking it makes it easier to > titrate the dosage -- translation: it's easier to eat Way Too Much than it > is to smoke too much. > > Signed, Medical Marijuana User With Asthma Who Hasn't Died Yet > > 'Tis true about the ingesting thing. The most intense buzz I had ever had was from eating a cannabis cake. I had to go to a poetry reading about an hour later after eating a yummy carrot cake - and to this day I'm still not quite certain how I got thru it. PS. Am I the only person who giggles at reading the word "titrate"? -- "Not I, but the city, teaches." - Socrates ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:53:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The NEST Of The Cotton Star Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the Cotton Star, where a NEST, and a tremor horse, permitted they in white tones wounded this crease, the middle aside... the middle aside... welkin arithmetician, brine arithmetician, eighty-sixth hunter, was the light leading your belongings, alongside the tremor horse, into NEST often mid-air is a must for pantomime mid-air the Slumber Countess, oh surely you meant the Cotton Star, recalls when she was honored below, under clang, under the clang, quoooo th'under-clang: "go sliver'd air the | tremor horse is most legible" of and of... down heyday leave creases wounded what covers the responsible NEST under the cotton star? an arithmetician for the sky, another for the sea - what the two face: ninety hunters for the NEST of the Cotton Star - what the ninety say: "with the last straw of astrology, our blood leaks in its looks" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:48:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Smoking at readings & elsewhere Comments: To: Michael Bogue In-Reply-To: <51d22234041115154475bb32ce@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > PS. Am I the only person who giggles at reading the word "titrate"? > How do you think I feel when people in the UK on a birding forum I post to keep reporting sightings of Great Tits? I have so far kept myself from replying, "I have a pair of those right here, baby," but my will is weakening. Do you think Blue Tits are the equivalent of "blue balls"? Signed, Binocular Girl ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:48:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: FW: Denial of water to Iraqi Cities during US and "allied" assaults MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Harry=20 Sent: 15-November-2004 9:23 AM Subject: Denial of water to Iraqi Cities during US and "allied" assaults >>> Denial of water to Iraqi Cities during assaults Water supplies to Tall Afar, Samarra and Fallujah have been cut off during US attacks in the past two months, affecting up to 750,000 civilians. This appears to form part of a deliberate US policy of denying water to the residents of cities under attack. If so, it has been adopted without a public debate, and without consulting Coalition partners. It is a serious breach of international humanitarian law, and is deepening Iraqi opposition to the United States, other Coalition members, and the Iraqi interim government. >> EVIDENCE FOR THE DENIAL OF WATER > Tall Afar=20 On 19 September 2004, the Washington Post reported that US forces 'had turned off' water supplies to Tall Afar 'for at least three days' (1). Turkish television reported a statement from the Iraqi Turkoman Front that 'Tall Afar is completely surrounded. Entries and exits are banned. The water shortage is very serious' (2). Al-Manar television in Lebanon interviewed an aid worker who stated that 'the main problem facing the people of Tall Afar and adjacent areas is shortage of water' (3). Relief workers reported a shortage of clean water (4). Moreover, the Washington Post reports that the US army failed to offer water to those fleeing Tall Afar, including children and pregnant women (5). > Samarra=20 'Water and electricity [were] cut off' during the assault on Samarra on Friday 1 October 2004, according to Knight Ridder Newspapers (6) and the Independent (7). The Washington Post explicitly blames 'U.S. forces' for this (8). Iraqi TV station Al-Sharqiyah reported that technical teams were working to 'restore the power and water supply and repair the sewage networks in Samarra' (9). Al Jazeera interviewed an aid worker who confirmed that 'the city is experiencing a crisis in which power and water are cut off' (10), as well as the commander of the Samarra Police, who reported that 'there is no electricity and no water' (11). > Fallujah=20 On 16 October the Washington Post reported that: 'Electricity and water were cut off to the city [Fallujah] just as a fresh wave of strikes began Thursday night, an action that U.S. forces also took at the start of assaults on Najaf and Samarra.' (12) Residents of Fallujah have told the UN's Integrated Regional Information Networks that 'they had no food or clean water and did not have time to store enough to hold out through the impending battle' (13). The water shortage has been confirmed by other civilians fleeing Fallujah(14), Fadhil Badrani, a BBC journalist in Falluja, confirmed on 8 November that 'the water supply has been cut off'. In light of the shortage of water and other supplies, the Red Cross has attempted to deliver water to Fallujah. However the US has refused to allow shipments of water into Fallujah until it has taken control of the city (15).=20 > Other cases=20 There have been allegations that the water supply was cut off during the assault on Najaf in August 2004, and during the invasion of Basra in 2003. We have not investigated these claims. > JUSTIFICATIONS FOR THE DENIAL OF WATER Some military analysts have attempted to justify the denial of water on tactical or humanitarian grounds. Ian Kemp, editor of military journal 'Jane's Defense Weekly', argues that: 'The longer the city [Fallujah] is sealed off with the insurgents inside, the more difficult it is going to be for them. Eventually, their supplies of food and water are going to dwindle' (16). Barak Salmoni, assistant professor in National Security Affairs at the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, told the San Francisco Chronicle that civilians would probably be encouraged to leave Fallujah 'by cutting off water and other supplies' (17). These arguments are deeply flawed on legal, humanitarian and political grounds. The majority of the population of Fallujah fled before the American attack. Those who have not already fled Fallujah are forced to remain, since roads out of the city have been blocked (18), including by British troops (19). Not only are those remaining unable to leave, but they are likely to consist largely of those too old, weak, or ill to flee - precisely the groups which will be most severely affected by a shortage of water.=20 > REACTION IN IRAQ=20 The information reported above is more widely known in Iraq than in the US and UK, and has had become a significant political issue. Belief that US tactics involve denial of water is widespread. According to the LA = Times: 'As soon as the women of Fallouja learned that four Americans had been killed, their bodies mutilated, burned and strung up from a bridge, they knew a terrible battle was coming. They filled their bathtubs and buckets with water...' (20) Condemnations of the tactic have been issued by several major Iraqi political groups. On 1 October the Iraqi Islamic Party issued a statement criticising the US attack on Fallujah which 'cut off water, electricity, and medical supplies', and arguing that such an approach 'will further aggravate and complicate the security situation'. It also called for compensation for the victims (21). Three days later Muqtada al-Sadr criticized both the denial of water to Samarra, and the lack of international outrage at it: 'They say that this city is experiencing the worst humanitarian situations, without water and electricity, but no-one speaks about this. If the wronged party were America, wouldn't the whole world come to its rescue and wouldn't it denounce this?' (22) Denial of water is one of the misguided tactics which increases distrust of the Coalition forces. Asked in June how much confidence they had in US and UK forces, 50.8% of participating Iraqis responded 'none at all', with a further 29.5% saying 'not very much' (23). This in turn fuels anti-American violence. A spokesman for the Association of Muslim Scholars, one of the most significant Sunni political groupings in Iraq, reported that the party's representative in Samarra had told him that 'there was no water'. He argued that partly as a result of this:=20 'The Iraqis no longer trust the Americans. It is not a question of military manifestations. It is now a question of popular rejection for the Americans, not for the military manifestations.' (24) His analysis is confirmed by the Oxford Research International poll, according to which one third of Iraqis regard attacks against Coalition forces as 'acceptable' (25). > REACTION IN THE UK Awareness of this issue remains extremely limited among the British public. The British government denies involvement. Despite inquiries from CASI and others, they appear not to have raised the issue with their American counterparts. UK Armed Forces Minister Adam Ingram has denied knowledge of US action to cut off water supplies in Tall Afar (26), despite coverage in the Washington Post. Similarly Hilary Benn, the UK Secretary of State for International Development, says he has not discussed the issue with his American counterparts (27). This lack of communication with the American side suggests a lack of concern for the humanitarian implications of the conflict in Iraq, and an unwillingness to comment on American activities. Concerning British forces, Mr. Ingram has claimed that:=20 'With regard to the action of our own Forces, I can also confirm that we have not cut off water supplies to civilians. It is possible that local temporary disruptions may have occurred at some time due to damage from combat with anti-Iraqi Forces but we are not aware of any actual cases where this has happened' (28). > LEGAL IMPLICATIONS The denial of water to civilians is illegal both under Iraqi and international law. Article 12 of the Transitional Administrative Law, which serves as a constitution during the interim period, states that: 'Everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the security of his person' (29)=20 International law specifically forbids the denial of water to civilians during conflict. Under Article 14 of the second protocol of the Geneva Conventions,=20 'Starvation of civilians as a method of combat is prohibited. It is therefore prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless for that purpose, objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population such as food-stuffs, agricultural areas for the production of food-stuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works.' (30) > RECOMMENDATIONS=20 CASI calls on Members of Parliament to raise this issue with ministers as a matter of urgency. The UK government must use its influence with our US ally to ensure that all military operations are conducted within the bounds of international law. In addition to the suffering caused to the civilian population, use of these tactics by US forces puts our own troops at risk from rising insurgency. We hope that the issue will be taken up by international NGOs such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. Deliberate disruption of civilian water supplies should be a matter of concern for all who are promoting human rights in Iraq. CASI urges journalists on the ground in Iraq to investigate the above reports further, in order to build up a clearer picture of use of this tactic. The UK media must give greater weight to the plight of civilian populations in their coverage of conflicts such as Fallujah. The UK public needs to know that our Coalition partner is using this illegal tactic.=20 ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS=20 This briefing was prepared for CASI by Daniel O'Huiginn and Alison Klevnas. Thanks to Felicity Arbuthnot, Anne Campbell, Helena Cobban, Mike Lewis, Rory McCarthy, Glen Rangwala, Colin Rowat, Shirin, Jonathan Stevenson, Per Klevnas and the members of the CASI Analysis list for their help and advice. Except where otherwise noted, extracts from the Iraqi press and broadcast media are taken from the BBC news monitoring service.=20 For more information on this issue, please contact: Daniel O'Huiginn,=20 Tel: 01223 328040=20 Mobile: 07745 192426 Email: =A0dan.ohuiginn@casi.org.uk (1) 'After Recapturing N. Iraqi City, Rebuilding Starts from Scratch', by Steve Fainaru. 19 September 2004. =A0http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A31377-2004Sep18?language=3Dp= rinter (2) Comments by Faruq Abd-al-Rahman, leader of the Iraqi Turkoman Front, on TRT 2 Television, Ankara, 1600 gmt 12 September 2004 (3) Al-Manar Television, Beirut, 0440 gmt 14 September 2004 (4) Al-Sharqiyah, Baghdad, 1200 gmt 15 September 2004 (5) 'After Recapturing N. Iraqi City, Rebuilding Starts from Scratch', by Steve Fainaru. 19 September 2004. =A0http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A31377-2004Sep18?language=3Dp= rinter (6) 'US, Iraqi forces take control of Samarra'. By Nancy A. Youssef and Patrick Kerkstra, 1 October 2004, =A0http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/world/9813499.htm (7) 'Onslaught in Samarra escalates in 'dress rehearsal' for major US assault on rebels'. Ken Sengupta, Independent, 3 October. =A0http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=3D5683= 5 (8) Washington Post, 16 October 2004. =A0http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A34612-2004Oct15?language=3Dp= rinter (9) Al-Sharqiyah, Baghdad, 1300GMT 8 October 2004 (10) Al-Jazeera TV, 1505 gmt 1 October 2004 (11) Al Jazeera TV, 1810 gmt 2 October 2004 (12) Washington Post, 16 October 2004. =A0http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A34612-2004Oct15?language=3Dp= rinter (13) 'Iraq: thousands of residents have fled Fallujah'. IRIN, 8 November.=20 =A0http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/480fa8736b88bbc3c12564f6004c8ad5/c8= e6aad e2a3db177c1256f460051db3b?OpenDocument (14) Comment by Shirin, =A0http://justworldnews.org/MT/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=3D966 (15) 'Iraq: thousands of residents have fled Fallujah'. IRIN, 8 November.=20 =A0http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/480fa8736b88bbc3c12564f6004c8ad5/c8= e6aad e2a3db177c1256f460051db3b?OpenDocument (16) 'Iraq: US troops surround al-Fallujah as offensive preparations continue'. Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty feature, 8 November 2004. =A0http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/11/f29d2002-7151-4453-9e91-9= 7c77a 17d3f2.html=20 (17) San Francisco Chronicle, 6th November 2004. =A0http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=3D/c/a/2004/11/06/MNGHL= 9NBU11. DTL=20 (18)=20 = http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=3D580548 (19)=20 =A0http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3989815.stm (20) LA Times, 24 October, =A0http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-fallouja24oct24,1,= 67873 18.story?coll=3Dla-headlines-world (21) Statement issued by the Political Bureau of the Iraqi Islamic Party, on 19 Sha'ban 1425 AH, corresponding to 3 Oct 2004. Reported on Dar al-Salam radio, Baghdad in Arabic 1600 gmt 4 Oct 04 (22) Statement by Muqtada al-Sadr on Al-Manar Television, Beirut, in Arabic 1800 gmt 4 October 2004 (23) Survey conducted in June 2004 by Oxford Research International, =A0http://www.oxfordresearch.com/Iraq%20June%202004%20Frequency%20Tables.= PD (24) Al-Jazeera TV, 1615 GMT 2 October 2004 (25) Survey conducted in June 2004 by Oxford Research International, =A0http://www.oxfordresearch.com/Iraq%20June%202004%20Frequency%20Tables.= PD (26) Response of Adam Ingram on 25 October 2004 to questions 191479 (tabled by Llwyd, and 192090, 192089, and 192087 tabled by Adam Price. =A0http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/cm041025/te= xt/41 025w03.htm#41025w03.html_spnew9 (27) Response to question by Adam Price MP: Adam Price: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what discussions he has had with counterparts in the US Administration on cutting off water supplies in Iraq. [192088] Hilary Benn: I have had no such discussions =A0http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/cm041103/te= xt/41 103w03.htm#41103w03.html_spnew4 (28) Letter from Adam Ingram to Anne Campbell MP, dated 21 October 2004, ref D/Min(AF)/AI 4770/04/C (29) Law of administration for the state of Iraq for the transitional period,=20 =A0http://www.cpa-iraq.org/government/TAL.html (30)=20 =A0http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/7c4d08d9b287a42141256739003e636b/d67c3971b= cff1c 10c125641e0052b545=20 e-mail: dan.ohuiginn@casi.org.uk Homepage: http://www.casi.org.uk =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "It's no disgrace to come from Texas; it's just a disgrace to have to go back there." Kinky Friedman.=20 The Prisoner of Vandam Street. = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:05:50 -0500 Reply-To: Michael Bogue Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Bogue Subject: Re: Smoking at readings & elsewhere In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:48:01 -0500 (EST), Gwyn McVay wrote: > > PS. Am I the only person who giggles at reading the word "titrate"? > > > How do you think I feel when people in the UK on a birding forum I post to > keep reporting sightings of Great Tits? I have so far kept myself from > replying, "I have a pair of those right here, baby," but my will is > weakening. Do you think Blue Tits are the equivalent of "blue balls"? > > Signed, Binocular Girl > > Not to mention that great bird, the Round Tuit. This bird often dies because it fails to go south for the winter, constantly putting off it's preparations to a later date. Thus when someone say's they are going to "get a Round Tuit", you can rest assured it will never happen, for they are a favoured bird of procrastinators. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:19:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Falluja photos Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed What we aren't allowed to see in our free society... http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:24:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bradley Redekop Subject: come over MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Subscribers, This is my story. I am Dr. Lin Gun Shing, and I do not know your current condition. What is masked by the appearance of a will for experience? 1: How many money should I pay for one hour? Let me know what I can help? 2: Where will you teach me? 3: How long should I study for one class and one week? Can you understand my meaning? In addition, the demands to put order into thought's interrelations inherent in the exercise of the difficulties of thought often take me far from where I started encountered by understanding in time. I’m very sorry to heard that you were accident. File under: Boyhood nostalgia. Someone please come over and drown me beneath a yacht. -- Bradley ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:58:25 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dirty hands bad dreams last leaf -re x... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:38:20 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: trolls and fragments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amy, let's not pretend all of a sudden that Minky's post wasn't being critical of the very things I brought up. Of course she was, and of course it's fine that she was. One of Minky's lines was: "Wasn't the spirit of this listserv (merry christmas) one of sharing and supporting each other in the business of poetry?" To say "Wasn't" this way is to suggest we have gotten away from the original purpose. The "spirit of this listserv" is Minky telling us all what the "spirit" is for us. And some will agree, and some will not. Let's not play hide and seek here Amy. If you two had wanted to have something fun happen without being critical, you could have chosen to do so. But you didn't, you chose to have fun by way of first being critical. Which (I repeat) is fine, but you cannot expect to be critical (especially with poets) and not have an argument. By the way, here was something from your post: "Isn't it just possible that two women on the phone across the state from each other, giddy at midnight, thought it might be fun to propose that poets do something fun together and in unison...." You try to make it sound as if you two were brainstorming fun and not being critical. "Isn't it just possible" that you are intelligent, fun women who are capable of being both fun and being critical? What's so horrible about that? Why are you trying to lay on all the damage control here? If you can't handle other poets disagreeing with you, next time maybe you could try fun without the criticism. Or maybe you will come to do both, which I'm sure you're capable of doing. May the "spirit" of the list remain hidden, and all voices exact themselves, uninhibited, CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:58:19 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Poets are unreasonable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." George Bernard Shaw ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:20:02 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: new Baumgartner Gallery opening with John Cage - George Quasha exhibition Nov. 19th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit George You have some interesting ideas and poetry and art on your web site. The faces and the stones are interesting andtheepory is intriguing. I sent the link on to my sister who is stufdying art and also another artist/poet here in Auckland (NZ) I get a lot ot ideas via art and wold like to be able to do something in that area of conceptual or "intuitive" art . Yoour formula for beauty is interesting...some lines from Whitman and "still point" from T S Eliot? He also refers to the axel.....in The 4 Quartets. Cage's (art) work sounds interesting.....I read abook a ew years ago on contemp music (to catch up) and the ideasof Cage, Stockhausen and Chalres Ives (and his father) interested me very much. And (including the faces) 'quotes' from Beuys and Boltanksi etc? Good luck with your exhibition etc PS Some of those stones have to be glued together -no? Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Quasha" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 12:03 AM Subject: new Baumgartner Gallery opening with John Cage - George Quasha exhibition Nov. 19th > Baumgartner Gallery is pleased to announce its inaugural exhibition at > the new 522 West 24th Street location, presenting a selection of John > Cage’s celebrated New River Watercolors and George Quasha’s new Axial > Stones & Drawings. Opening November 19, 2004 6-8 PM > > Revolutionary composer, poet/writer, and artist, John Cage made a series > of watercolors in 1988 at the Mountain Lake Workshop in Virginia; he > used stones from New River, which were arranged systematically with art > materials (colors, papers, brushes & feathers, etc.) and employed > according to I Ching-based chance operations. These visual works > represent a high point in Cage’s famous displacement of “choice” from > the level of taste, personal emotion, and aesthetic judgment to that of > a non-personalist modality of engaging materials and process. “My > choices,” he said “consist in choosing what questions to ask.” The work > on paper preserves the traces of an event, an energy field of material > expression, where things speak for themselves in unforeseen ways and > retain their freshness year after year. > > In his mid 20s George Quasha met John Cage and felt his own work as poet > and artist “reoriented,” although he himself never embraced systematic > chance operations. (Later his Station Hill Press published Cage’s > Themes & Variations.) Quasha’s sense of the axial, as the principle > pervading all of his work (whether sculpture, drawing, video, language, > or performance), offers a parallel to Cage’s intention to discover > uniqueness and radical newness in each instance of composition, whatever > the medium. > > Quasha’s axial stones are the result of subtle attractions and unique > acts of balance. He discovers individual stones, usually in or near > rivers, and, according to the artist, “waits (minutes, days, years) > until they discover each other”; he then “performs their act of union > through radical balance, without changing the stones in any way and > without any kind of stickum.” He “works them, on an invisible axis, > toward their most precarious point, the optimal statement of apparent > impossibility”; this is the point where “a stone seems on the verge of > switching elements, a liminality of earth and air.” They “remain on > edge, pre-climactic, impermanent, yet well seated in their perilous > retention.” > > The axial drawings present a related event in the medium of graphite on > paper. “The axial does not suggest a method or style but a principle, > which, unlike the conceptual, can have no definitive expression; instead > it generates ever new instances of itself.” A “state of free moving > intentionality, it finds formal integrity on the fly.” Despite a > sometimes surprising elegance in the drawing, it is in fact an > unrepeatable event — a skill-defying act that restores the artist to > “zero point” — a momentary innocence rather than mastery. What appears > is an “integrating energy” that is neither abstract nor figurative, but > configurative — “a site of possible figuration with no hold on formal > consistency.” Axial drawing here means “graphite exciting paper to open > its aperture to an other side.” > > > beauty = precarious x optimal > > George Quasha’s work in installation and video includes "art is: > Speaking Portraits (in the performative indicative)", an ongoing project > on exhibit this month at White Box, November 16 through 27 (525 West > 26th Street); at the same time it will be streamed on WPS1, the all-art > internet station of PS1/MoMA. (Details of the work at > www.artis-online.net.) art is has previously been exhibited at the > Snite Museum of Art, the International Media Art Biennale WRO 03 > (Wroclaw), 10th Biennial of Moving Images (Saint-Gervais, Geneva), > Bunkier Sztuki (Krakow), World Social Forum 04 (Bombay), etc. His > thirteen books include: art writing (four books and nine catalogues on > artist Gary Hill, including Tall Ships, HanD HearD/liminal objects, > Viewer, and Language Willing), poetry (five books, including Ainu > Dreams and The Preverbs of Tell), and anthologies (America a Prophecy, > Open Poetry, and The Station Hill Blanchot Reader). He continues his > twenty year performance and video/language collaboration with Gary Hill > and Charles Stein. > > JOHN CAGE works on paper > GEORGE QUASHA axial stones & drawings > > November 19 – December 23, 2004 Opening November 19 > 6-8 PM > > http://www.baumgartnergallery.com > > > http://www.quasha.com > > http://www.artis-online.net > > > > > > > > > -- > > George Quasha > > Barrytown/Station Hill Press, Inc. > > (The Institute for Publishing Arts, Inc.) > > 124 Station Hill Road, Barrytown, NY 12507 > > > > Home: (845) 758-5291 > > Cell: (914-474-5610 > > Fax: (845) 758-9838 > > Publishing: (845) 758-5293 > > > > http://www.quasha.com > > http://www.artis-online.net > > http://www.baumgartnergallery.com > > http://www.stationhill.org > > > > > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If > you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in > error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any > unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this > e-mail is strictly forbidden. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:39:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JERRY Subject: Robin Kenyatta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ponciana -- for Robin Kenyatta Ponciana will tell us where we are no gatekeepers required for this language we already knew walk through it with blazing heart into its thickets and it will always return the favor listen as it grows strong as night comes on do you feel this free spring? will you follow it down to its oval? when you arrive plan on change lit by night afloat on flute & alto saxophone Gerald Schwartz gejs1@rochester.rr.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:45:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: pirate products MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Mr. Frazer, Your attempts to provide your readers with unauthorized underwear has = not gone unnoticed. Rest assured, we will figure out how you created = those items and placed them on our servers at = http://www.cafepress.com/unlikely2/425584, and those items will be = destroyed. Sincerely, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:44:33 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: pirate products In-Reply-To: <00b301c4cbe2$9a54c270$220110ac@unlikelydesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 16 Nov 2004 at 6:45, Jonathan Penton wrote: > Your attempts to provide your readers with unauthorized underwear has > not gone unnoticed. Rest assured, we will figure out how you created > those items and placed them on our servers at > http://www.cafepress.com/unlikely2/425584, and those items will be > destroyed. Ah, paralipsis! Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:04:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: it's noon somewhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "I've been listening to classical music," she tells me. "I find it very soothing. I need more relaxation in my life." I think of Wagner's screams and Sousa's marches Prussians drunk on war and power- -Beethoven's unfinished concerto for the man he loathed replaced by that crashing, maddening ode to the most unrelaxed passion of all- Disturbed, I cultivate friendships with my elders, and a middle-aged man tells me that he listens to classical music to decrease his libido. I think of thin-lipped Germans and bastard Russians Nannerl touching Johann's penis in the music room as Leopold narrows his resolve and Napoleon stiffens in history's hand I think of Austrian celebrities dressed like women and the cuckolds who loved them- I tire of such intricacies. I retreat to my childhood world of rock 'n' roll childish, transparent, Oedipal- boy meets girl, boy fucks girl, boy bashes father-in-law's head in with a baseball bat. Simple, pounding rhythms, brainless ballads of loss. The sort of thing I can relate to. I seek simpler sexualities. I turn my back on majestic music and briefly wonder what other people hear. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:33:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: fighting folly & futility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beckett was far more articulate in expressing his absurdity than I could ever be in expressing my joy and optimism. I juxtapose these poems to illustrate different approaches to life and poetry. What is the Word folly - folly for to - for to - what is the word - folly from this - all this - folly from all this - given - folly given all this - seeing - folly seeing all this - this - what is the word - this this - this this here - all this this here - folly given all this - seeing - folly seeing all this this here - for to - what is the word - see - glimpse - seem to glimpse - need to seem to glimpse - folly for to need to seem to glimpse - what - what is the word - and where - folly for to need to seem to glimpse what where - where - what is the word - there - over there away over there - afar - afar away over there - afaint - afaint afar away over there what - what - what is the word - seeing all this - all this this - all this this here - folly for to see what - glimpse seem to glimpse - need to seem to glimpse - afaint afar away over there what - folly for to need to seem to glimpse afaint afar away over there what - what - what is the word - what is the word Samuel Beckett ---------- Beyond Broceliande Silent swallows huddle upon our cottage roof satisfied with a summer feast of mosquitoes Cool morning mists shroud their leaving At twilight fireflies dance a farewell flicker tiny stars and frolicking children Grapevines bare their sleeping limbs Russet leaves abound beneath October's moon Under the leafy blanket frosted purple grapes are burst and seeping transformation on the perfumed earth A solitary blue jay, squawking sentinel guarding the snowy gates of the forest A cardinal aflame, Parzival entranced pauses, then flitters in treetops over turtledoves cooing in love nests Melodious in their melting ponds thawing frogs are frantic and croaking looking skyward, calling down the night singing to melancholy Orion on his ever silent crossing One night we flew the mayfly hatch frenzied and free, dodging trees, but just before dawn three lonely loons called to each other across twin lakes Seven golden summers, honey combed, milky breasted Seven little strangers made the home a sacred garden, alive with ideas Laughing little gods on the greenest bed A new pool in a new land In their secret garden we see new worlds beginning but we must leave them for the forest so wild and green and ever calling Tangled and strange the trees resist to hide the magic fountain We dip the cup to wet the stone The earth and heavens kiss Our story brings the storm clouds down and thunder rumbles in the mist Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:11:12 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Psalm 2004, varieties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Found Poem: Psalm 2004 Bush is my shepherd, I=A0am in want. He maketh me to lie down on park benches, He leadeth me beside the still factories. He restoreth my faith in Democrats: He leadeth me in the paths of unemployment, for God's sake. Yea, since I walk through the valley of Ground Zero I still fear the terrorists, though Bush is with me; His tanks and his planes discomfort me. He preparest a babel before me in the presence of media; He annointest my car with oil; my wallet is empty. Surely poverty and hard living Shall follow me all the days of my life And I will dwell in this rental unit forever. Found Poem: Psalm 2004-a Bush is my shepherd, I=A0shall not want. He maketh me to lie down on Park Avenue; He leadeth me beside the single-malt still. He restoreth my tax cut; He leadeth me in the paths of outsourcing, for profit's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of Ground Zero I shall fear no terrorists, for Bush is with me; His tanks and his planes they comfort me. He preparest a double before me in the presence of Muslims; He annointest my wallet with cash; my stocks rise. Surely fast cars and loose women Shall follow me all the days of my life And I will dwell in a tract mansion forever. Found Poem: Psalm 2004-b Bush is my shepherd; I dwell in want. He maketh logs to be cut down in national forests He leadeth trucks into the still wilderness. He restoreth my fears. He leadeth me in the paths of international disgrace for his ego's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the profit of war, I will find no exit, for thou art in office. Thy tax cuts for the rich and thy media control, discomfort me. Thou preparest an agenda of deception in the presence of thy religion. Thou anointest my head with foreign oil. My health insurance runneth out. Surely megalomania and false patriotism Shall follow me all the days of thy term, And my jobless child shall dwell in my basement forever. Found Poem: Psalm 2004-c Bush is my shepherd, I shall not want: He maketh oil to be drilled in Alaskan wildlife reserves, He carveth dune buggy tracks in the free desert. He restoreth manifest destiny. He leadeth me in the paths of prisoner torture, for Christ's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the profit of war, I will fear no exit, for thou art in office. Thy tax cuts and anti-gay message they comfort me. Thou preparest a large mandate in the presence of slim margins. Thou anointest my head with foreign oil; My Hummer runneth over. Surely flag-waving and cheap oil Shall follow me all the days of thy term, And Tony Blair shall dwell in the House of Lords, eventually. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:38:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: trolls and fragments In-Reply-To: <1de.2ea4da90.2ecb40ac@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Craig, “Pretending?” “Hide and seek?” … which you’re sure I’m capable of doing? Your spirit of “disagreement,” Craig is an arrow to the ankle. It may bring Achilles down, but on any other mortal, it’s a pointless shot – and off mark. Where in my post do I “pretend” Minky wasn’t critical? Really, where? In fact, I preface my post with an exact criticism regarding the “turf” wars that take place on this list with regularity. In case you didn’t deduce from that preface, I think the conversations about who can post what and when are not only redundant, but they can also be intimidating. Any lurker who might be considering posting something may hesitate & decide not to post when he or she reads the flak that comes from those using the “turf” in a way someone else needs to make a fuss over instead of just deleting. As you selectively quoted from my last post, you omitted a very important part, “Even now, Minky’s main [MAIN] sentiment is disregarded, one that suggests, yes, a kind of silly playfulness but also (albeit simplistic) a call to do something together and be supportive of and in the tiny world that is poetry.” I think it’s very telling that, once again, you have chosen to disregard the intent of Minky’s original post (& my follow-up) to focus on the fact that she originally mentioned fragmentation, which was an impetus to figuring out how to do something fun via this list, and in turn, falsely accuse me of something so trivial as to pretend that I’m not critical. In your original response to Minky, you schooled us girls on the idea that we should accept that poets are disagreeable, understand the need for people in the world who can say no, see that conflict is healthy for poetics, AND that I should look to the German workers fighting the 40 hour work week! Do you think I live in a bubble, Craig? You’re assuming a great deal about my consciousness and thinking abilities based on your need to scold me for “pretending” and “playing hide and seek”—falsely so. I have a feeling that your “faith” in my ability to be critical as well as fun is really an opportunistic convenience you have noted in order to place yourself in the position of schoolmaster over myself and Minky, the two mischievous girls who haven’t fully learned your lessons. So your lesson instructing me to acknowledge that we were critical is moot. But your condescending tone comes through clearly. As for conflict, isn’t there some saying about choosing your battles wisely? Your version of conflict and my own, most likely, veer greatly. However, I acknowledge that I am intentionally participating in a conflict you continue to try to define in fruitless measure. The reason I am doing so is because I would like to say something about tone here. I have just noted that you’ve been condescending to myself and Minky while totally disregarding everything else in our post. I have found over the years that the anonymity of this list (in that most of us are names on a screen only) seems to translate into license for some people to say things to each other in a way that they never would in person, and by that I mean, I imagine the thinking to be something along the lines of “Well, I’ll probably never meet that person so I’ll just tell it like it is & show her who really knows what – no holds barred.” I am speaking from experience here. Over the years, I’ve read some responses on this list that were plain old rude, only to meet the person and find that, in fact, he or she is quite polite, friendly, doesn’t speak like that in person, etc. And yes, critical thinking. This has happened on more than one occasion. So my questions to you, Craig, are: Do you think if we met in person, you would discuss mine and Minky’s original proposition or do you think you would simply ignore it? Do you think you would be compelled to lecture me on the necessity of conflict in the evolution of poetics or point out how my original proposition came about because I was thinking critically? And do you think you would assume that I “can’t handle poets disagreeing with” me or do you think we would be able to discuss a matter on which we might not agree in a critical way without being condescending? I hope that somehow this discussion encourages other lurkers to use the listserv as though they are entitled – it’d be nice to hear from other poets elsewhere who don’t post (& I’d be happy to hear from you backchannel too). Amy http://got-voice.blogspot.com -- please utilize this site to contact the media and encourage coverage of the vote audit. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:03:12 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: trolls and fragments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amy, first to answer your question, yes, I would discuss this in person. You're in NY? I'll let you know when I'm up there next. And I didn't ignore anything, I believe I made it clear in the last post that you were both looking for something to do which was fun. My feeling was, and still is, that you were trying to make light of one part of the original post by Minky, while emphasizing what you wanted emphasized. This is of course the very thing you are accusing me of doing. It's funny you say you feel that I was trying to "school" you "girls" (you of course are attempting to turn this into an argument that I'm sexist, but frankly, I don't care what your gender is) when in fact the very tone of the original post had that very tone: the tone of enlightening others with the "spirit" of the list, etc. To quote a good friend of mine, if you projected anymore you'd be a multiplex. And also, I'm glad you're so disagreeable, rock on, CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:07:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Attn: Kevin Kehir---Your diphthongs are now available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr. Kehir: As you may have gathered from previous correspondence posted to this site, my attempt to provide you with a diphthong from my product line has met with considerable opposition. I am pleased to say that I have used my innate resourcefulness, as well as my experience as a bureaucrat in a corrupt Connecticut bureaucracy and as a Florida voter to make arrangements for you to purchase your autographed diphthong at:: http://www.cafepress.com/unlikely2/425584 The item you requested will appear in the upper left corner of your monitor. I hope you wear it with pride and comfort. It is my pleasure to provide you with customized items from the Vernon Frazer product line. On a more personal note, I wish to thank you for providing me with this opportunity to grow and develop in my life as a commodity. It seems a shame that so few recognize that commodities are people, too. Sincerely, The Vernon Frazer Author, Commercial Fiction ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:23:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: trolls and fragments Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 > Amy, > first to answer your question, yes, I would discuss > this in person. You're in NY? I'll let you know when > I'm up there next. no need to wait... the rumble begins at 7:30 this saturday at la tazza!!! i'm not being facetious. --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:34:41 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Reich Subject: Re: upcoming readings/films in San Francisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received this in the mail; don't know if these are real pros. Any possibility of meeting filmmakers there? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:39:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: pirate products In-Reply-To: <00b301c4cbe2$9a54c270$220110ac@unlikelydesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr. Penton: In the face of an unresponsive corporate bureaucracy such as yours, I find myself forced to meet the needs of the customers of my product line by any means necessary. If you truly believed, as does Ralph Putz, the professional Role Model who coined Commercial Fiction's motto, that "SHOWING UP IS 100% OF LIFE," you would have shown up to provide Mr. Kehir with the item he requested. Since you did not show up to address this consumer's legitimate request, I can only assume that you are a regular putz and a mere Woody Allen derivative, the kind of person who believes that "showing up is 85% of life." No matter your title or presumed authority, your attitude will never allow you to become a role model of the stature of Ralph Putz. Obviously, 15% of you is always absent. I am pleased to do whatever is necessary to provide customer service to people interested in the Vernon Frazer Product line. It is clearly a hot commodity. You may eventually find out how I created the "Commercial Diphthongs" line and placed it on the cafepress.com site. But you will never "catch" me. I have worked as a "hack" in a highly political environment and have stood in line watching "hacked" voting machines in South Florida. As a result, I am not without experience or resources, which you will soon discover. You see, my "people" arranged, during the last election, to "hack" the computerized voting machines so that every Bush vote would issue a vote for you as dog catcher for the entire state of Florida. The government is already noticing that you have yet to show up for your job, and that you (or someone using your name) are collecting pay checks for that position. Moreover, the investigation has revealed that you are not a Florida resident, which means that you are legally ineligible for the job to which you were elected and for which you are receiving a salary for work you are not doing. Moreover, the Department of Immigration in El Paso is investigating your immigration status, to determine whether you are a legal or illegal alien, and your planet of origin. You can expect to be deported after your Florida incarceration. Cape Canaveral is expecting you. So, while you may use your wiles to pursue me, you will, at some point, have to use them to address---unsuccessfully---the complicated legal situations that you will soon find yourself embroiled in. I may be a commodity, but I am not a mindless one. I suggest you find a new career by auditioning for the next remake of The Fugitive. Sincerely, The Vernon Frazer, Hot Commodity -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jonathan Penton Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 8:46 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: pirate products Dear Mr. Frazer, Your attempts to provide your readers with unauthorized underwear has not gone unnoticed. Rest assured, we will figure out how you created those items and placed them on our servers at http://www.cafepress.com/unlikely2/425584, and those items will be destroyed. Sincerely, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:29:38 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: for the book collector in you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi there, Due to serious personal reasons (love, empanadillas and) I have to sell the two following items of my library: ****************************************************** ****************************************************** - Type of Material: Binary Text (85 x 3'5 cartridges for RS232 port, HB-75) - Personal Name: Dan Allenson - Main Title: Grammatology Of Morse Idioms During Telegraph Wars - First Published/Created: Zaltbommel, Bibliothèque européenne, 1985. - Status: Non Verified. ****************************************************** ****************************************************** - Type of Material: 720 m Audio Tape (Mono; 3 3/4 ips) - Personal Name: Al Soundzon - Main Title: The Seven Gates To Adult Literacy In Phonetic Languages (The Aural Quixote, Actae Colloquiae, Intervention) - Published/Created: Triste-Le-Roy, P. Ménard Editions Sonores, 1966. - Status: Audible. Some hisses and lows in the audio spectrum from places to places. ****************************************************** ****************************************************** If anyone feels interested, well, the price is cheap but as I won't be able to send them either. Yours, Cyrill. (¸.•'´(¸.•'´ `'•.¸)`' •.¸) ¸.•´ ( `•.¸ `•.¸ ) ¸.•)´ (.•´ `*. *. shooting yourself in the balls is not the way to have a happy life http://dolmensniper.motime.com/ ----- End forwarded message ----- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:42:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Truscott Subject: two Coach House readings in NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 17 November, 7 pm Housing Works Used Book Cafe 126 Crosby St. = Free Readings by novelists Rob Benvie and Geoffrey Brown and poets Rob Fitterm= an and Mark Truscott A reminder: 18 November, 7 pm KGB Bar 85 East 4th St. = Free Launch of Biting the Error: Writers Explore Narrative, with readings by e= ditors Mary Burger, Robert Gl=FCck, Camille Roy and Gail Scott and contri= butors Renee Gladman, Douglas A. Martin, Derek McCormack and Eileen Myles= More info at www.chbooks.com. Thank you, = Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:58:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: it's noon somewhere In-Reply-To: <00d301c4cbe5$3ae93d90$220110ac@unlikelydesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Coda There's little in taking or giving, There's little in water or wine; This living, this living, this living Was never a project of mine. Oh, hard is the struggle, and sparse is The gain of the one at the top, For art is a form of catharsis, And love is a permanent flop, And work is the province of cattle, And rest's for a clam in a shell, So I'm thinking of throwing the battle-- Would you kindly direct me to hell? Dorothy Parker ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:46:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: Re: upcoming readings/films in San Francisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Deborah Reich wrote > Subject: Re: upcoming readings/films in San Francisco > Received this in the mail; don't know if these are real pros. no, they are real poets Seriously, you probably know The Poetry Center, but SF Cinematheque is a screening venue for experimental film, and since there are few careers in experimental film, i'd say we are all the BEST kind of amateurs. I personally am a volunteer. But if you're asking if the people in the films and making the work have enough name recognition for one to know their work, i'd say yes. Helen Adam, Charles Olson, Alan Sondheim, Kathy Acker, Robert Creeley, Theresa Cha, Stan Brakhage, Joanne Kyger, Charles Bernstein, Jess, Dodie Bellamy, Frank O'Hara, Anne Waldman, Abigail Child, Laura Moriarty, Leslie Scalapino, Michael McClure, Carla Harryman, and many more, spread over the three shows in the series. More info: http://www.sfcinematheque.org/programs.shtml#266 > Any possibility of meeting filmmakers there? I certainly hope so. This series was designed to get the two communities to mix, and document the historical overlap between them over the course of the last 50 years in the Bay Area. If you come, i'm a filmmaker -- introduce youself! The first show is (this) Thursday Nov. 18th Yerba Buena Center for the Arts Mission and Third Streets, in San Francisco Thanks, konrad steiner SF Cinematheque Curatorial Committee ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:36:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Contagion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Contagion Contents of Microscope Slides from 1939-1944, recently acquired: First and last with cover-glass only Parasite from Mouse 9/10/44 Pus Simple Pus Acid Pus Slide Pus Gram Stages in Cough Subtillus Pneumo darker red bunch MicrococeUS entorrhalis Influence Gram Contaminated Water B Subtillus Gram Pneumococcus B Pyocyaneous Sarcion(?)e luf(r?)ea Diptheria Bacillus B Proteus Vulgaris Simple B Cough subspores B Prodigiosis Typhosis Garnett's B B Garnett Shiga Flexner B Coli Staphyalococcus gram Tapeworm section 11-25-39 _ Please note: http://www.asondheim.org is temporarily down. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:02:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: Remembering and Defending Subway Graffiti MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/16/nyregion/16wide.html?ex=1101637423&ei=1&en=7f1 398c5cf982bad An NYT article on subway graffiti. Maybe this attention will bring back graffiti covered subways in place of those platered with applique adverts. On the Red Line subway in Boston, there's a section where several large flatscreens are mounted along each side of the tunnel, level and visible to the windows of the subway car. Static image is repeated in sequences of several screens, so that at a high speed the illusion of video is given as the subway moves through an area of about 1/4 mile long. It was a disappointment that it was not an intallation of art, but an advertisement for Target. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:55:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Remembering and Defending Subway Graffiti MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As the recent PBS showed, advertising is everywhere in the city; another reason why we need the protect wilderness from Bush Inc. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hoerman, Michael A" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: Remembering and Defending Subway Graffiti > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/16/nyregion/16wide.html?ex=1101637423&ei=1&en=7f1 > 398c5cf982bad > > An NYT article on subway graffiti. > > Maybe this attention will bring back graffiti covered subways in place of those > platered with applique adverts. > > On the Red Line subway in Boston, there's a section where several large > flatscreens are mounted along each side of the tunnel, level and visible to the > windows of the subway car. Static image is repeated in sequences of several > screens, so that at a high speed the illusion of video is given as the subway > moves through an area of about 1/4 mile long. It was a disappointment that it > was not an intallation of art, but an advertisement for Target. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:38:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: RELIGIE NEMBUTSULA! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed RELIGIE NEMBUTSULA! oun esta raioun bibliolibrarire cartele? ou existe wo in agenda de adresela la? warum llaama de ce catavo? de la catavalo? werst du plimbammale de la macina? nervgit atzbanoot? o bersheecer cwaster von adama. de la sinle sinlaseins brustwurst ou besser? cabriolala? un fond de ten von demle grudfragen. zwei existenzale ni-se to von chigirishi shashin photographole? kono yo welt-de-terra? hai we, nu? este infectat byoin krankenheithus von charnal? existe plasterla? von de fotografi? erinnerinle diapositifla? respirati adinc lmata? nu? nu? kawaii non? Trey kawaii? trei si trie linasaila achshawv ishimanla homola om omul acela o-sanzen sekei kawaii? herr ichiman nonole, frau sanman nola lolita sampo? gri eu verdi warten et astepta nunc v-hic? tri-fecta uma to ume pola? vrai-true nachonla, da? moshi moshila chotto telex denwa genki matte no a telefona? hayom chole avec chaud-kulturle m'oad cu antitetanos febra? hilfst du moi caanla? oaf biblica echolla hola? tsukila yo yoshile enteinte chomage ensemblela? nembutsula! nembutsula! NEMBUTSULA! +++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:21:30 EST Reply-To: the third person Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: the third person Subject: 10 to twelve in alexandria egypt, poetry Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit écrit à la troisième personne * criticisme: flame mail écrit le feu! le feu! tu as le feu au col! * il sait toujours tirer les marrons du feu * la langue marche pas * if she disappears you'll know she fell into the third person where she was not seen silent since. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:52:07 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Contagion Comments: To: sondheim@PANIX.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Infectuous diseases and their agents have a pecualiar sound to them. You can sense they're up to no good. Murat In a message dated 11/16/04 3:53:36 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: > Contagion > > > Contents of Microscope Slides from 1939-1944, recently acquired: > > First and last with cover-glass only > > Parasite from Mouse 9/10/44 > Pus Simple > Pus Acid > Pus Slide > Pus Gram > Stages in Cough Subtillus > Pneumo darker red bunch MicrococeUS entorrhalis > Influence Gram > Contaminated Water > B Subtillus Gram > Pneumococcus > B Pyocyaneous > Sarcion(?)e luf(r?)ea > Diptheria Bacillus > B Proteus Vulgaris Simple > B Cough subspores > B Prodigiosis > Typhosis > Garnett's B > B Garnett > Shiga > Flexner > B Coli > Staphyalococcus gram > Tapeworm section 11-25-39 > > > _ > > > Please note: http://www.asondheim.org is temporarily down. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:08:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ]" Subject: Re: Remembering and Defending Subway Graffiti MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit back in '85, one of my friends showed me a video his brother (who hung out with the Rock Steady Crew) had taped off of PBS a couple years earlier...the video, Style Wars, got me hooked...we didn't have trains in san diego, but we had plenty of wall space, freeway space, & billboard space...it was bombs away... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hoerman, Michael A" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: Remembering and Defending Subway Graffiti http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/16/nyregion/16wide.html?ex=1101637423&ei=1&en=7f1 398c5cf982bad An NYT article on subway graffiti. Maybe this attention will bring back graffiti covered subways in place of those platered with applique adverts. On the Red Line subway in Boston, there's a section where several large flatscreens are mounted along each side of the tunnel, level and visible to the windows of the subway car. Static image is repeated in sequences of several screens, so that at a high speed the illusion of video is given as the subway moves through an area of about 1/4 mile long. It was a disappointment that it was not an intallation of art, but an advertisement for Target. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:12:10 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Contagion In-Reply-To: <103.547ffe12.2ecbde97@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" what is amazing to me is the way the anti-sondheim sentiments are laced with fear of disease ("viruses" etc) as if sondheim's links were more dangerous than others'... At 5:52 PM -0500 11/16/04, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >Infectuous diseases and their agents have a pecualiar sound to them. You can >sense they're up to no good. > >Murat > > >In a message dated 11/16/04 3:53:36 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: > > >> Contagion >> >> >> Contents of Microscope Slides from 1939-1944, recently acquired: >> >> First and last with cover-glass only >> >> Parasite from Mouse 9/10/44 >> Pus Simple >> Pus Acid >> Pus Slide >> Pus Gram >> Stages in Cough Subtillus >> Pneumo darker red bunch MicrococeUS entorrhalis >> Influence Gram >> Contaminated Water >> B Subtillus Gram >> Pneumococcus >> B Pyocyaneous >> Sarcion(?)e luf(r?)ea >> Diptheria Bacillus >> B Proteus Vulgaris Simple >> B Cough subspores >> B Prodigiosis >> Typhosis >> Garnett's B >> B Garnett >> Shiga >> Flexner >> B Coli >> Staphyalococcus gram >> Tapeworm section 11-25-39 >> >> >> _ >> >> >> Please note: http://www.asondheim.org is temporarily down. >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:35:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: Contagion In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/16/04 7:12 PM, "Maria Damon" wrote: > what is amazing to me is the way the anti-sondheim sentiments are > laced with fear of disease ("viruses" etc) as if sondheim's links > were more dangerous than others'... > > At 5:52 PM -0500 11/16/04, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >> Infectuous diseases and their agents have a pecualiar sound to them. You can >> sense they're up to no good. >> >> Murat >> >> >> In a message dated 11/16/04 3:53:36 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: >> >> >>> Contagion >>> >>> >>> Contents of Microscope Slides from 1939-1944, recently acquired: >>> >>> First and last with cover-glass only >>> >>> Parasite from Mouse 9/10/44 >>> Pus Simple >>> Pus Acid >>> Pus Slide >>> Pus Gram >>> Stages in Cough Subtillus >>> Pneumo darker red bunch MicrococeUS entorrhalis >>> Influence Gram >>> Contaminated Water >>> B Subtillus Gram >>> Pneumococcus >>> B Pyocyaneous >>> Sarcion(?)e luf(r?)ea >>> Diptheria Bacillus >>> B Proteus Vulgaris Simple >>> B Cough subspores >>> B Prodigiosis >>> Typhosis >>> Garnett's B >>> B Garnett >>> Shiga >>> Flexner >>> B Coli >>> Staphyalococcus gram >>> Tapeworm section 11-25-39 >>> >>> >>> _ >>> >>> >>> Please note: http://www.asondheim.org is temporarily down. >>> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:01:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: Contagion In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ..| what is amazing to me What makes you think there exists a fear of viruses? -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:09:45 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Contagion and due caution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/16/04 7:12:46 PM, damon001@UMN.EDU writes: > what is amazing to me is the way the anti-sondheim sentiments are > laced with fear of disease ("viruses" etc) as if sondheim's links > were more dangerous than others'... > > Isn't that what gives them their power? Also, Alan is "taking due caution." Murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:09:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Uncounted Votes "Discovered" in Florida, Ohio Recount Beginning Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I'm convinced that voter fraud ruled that day and that Bush scraped into office again by criminal means...that more people aren't outraged or even talking about this (not talking about the Po list) is amazing...finally mainstream media is touching the subject very carefully....is Kerry willing to let Independents do the "dirty" work...are Dems so afraid of the political Repug machine they're just going to lay down for the next four years... I'm feeling like none of this is surprising but at the same time all of this amounts to a BLOODLESS COUP Read on...write your representative if you haven't done so demanding audits of these votes...spread the word ________________________ BOX OF UNCOUNTED VOTES 'DISCOVERED' IN FLORIDA (St. Petersburg Times, Nov 16) The unmarked brown box sat unnoticed in the Pinellas Supervisor of Elections office until Monday, two weeks after the election, when an employee cleaning a desk stumbled upon it. Inside were 268 uncounted absentee ballots. "I think this is a very serious situation," Supervisor of Elections Deborah Clark said Monday, vowing to fire or discipline any employee found to be negligent. "I assume all responsibility for everything that happened in that department, but I have to rely on other people," Clark said. "It's not a one-woman show." The unmarked box wasn't the only problem. Five days ago, Clark sent the state the county's final results for the Nov. 2 election. But her office had failed to perform a standard check to ensure that all ballots had been accounted for. Clark assumed her staff had performed the check, but they had not. Now she will ask the state for permission to change Pinellas' official results. The canvassing board will count the missing ballots Thursday. Although it is numerically possible, officials say the missing ballots probably won't change any results. Only a few races were decided by less than 268 votes - including the presidential contest. George W. Bush won the presidential race in Pinellas by just 226 votes. While Bush's margin in Pinellas could change, his statewide victory won't. A city commission seat in South Pasadena and a referendum in Indian Rocks Beach were also decided by fewer than 268 votes. "If you found a couple hundred thousand votes in Ohio, that might be exciting," said Paul Bedinghaus, chairman of the Pinellas Republican Party. "I expect that human error will continue to occur as long as human beings are involved." This is the third time since Clark became election supervisor in 2000 that her office has had problems handling ballots. In the presidential race in 2000, the office neglected to count 1,400 ballots - and counted more than 900 ballots twice. In 2001, her office misplaced six absentee ballots in a Tarpon Springs city election. The uncounted absentee ballots this time came from the St. Petersburg election office. Election workers there put absentee ballots in a box to be delivered to the election service center in Largo, where they would be counted on Election Day. That afternoon, a staff courier delivered the box from St. Petersburg to Largo. Clark said her office has a system to track the boxes, but she could not describe it in detail during a phone interview from her home Monday night. The box arrived at the election office, where it sat in plain sight in the absentee ballot department for 14 days. Office spokeswoman Lori Hudson said other boxes and papers were piled on top of the box. The ballot box was not marked in any unique way. Clark could not say Monday why the box was not specially marked. Voters, accustomed to putting punch card ballots in locked metal boxes, had been uneasy when they saw election officials throw absentee ballots in a brown box in the St. Petersburg office, said Democratic lawyer Peter Wallace. Even before Election Day, missing ballots had caused embarrassment for another election supervisor. Hillsborough Supervisor of Election Buddy Johnson had been criticized in October after his staff lost 245 ballots in the Aug. 31 primary. Normally, Clark would have detected the missing ballots when her staff checked to ensure that every ballot was accounted for. Usually, every ballot, whether filed absentee or at a polling place, is registered into a computer system. After the election, workers compare the number recorded in the computer to the number of ballots. For some reason, the staff did not perform the procedure. Clark learned about the missing ballots on Monday afternoon. Clark did not return to the office because she said she needed to be with her husband, who is having surgery. Her staff, though, worked past 5 p.m. She promised a thorough investigation. "If we determine that this is the result of negligence, then those responsible will be held accountable," Clark said. "I can assure you of that." --St. Petersburg Times, Nov 16 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:03:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Uncounted Votes "Discovered" in Florida, Ohio Recount Beginning In-Reply-To: <61606AD1-3835-11D9-ADB3-000A95955A20@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" larry, i think we're all just a little burned out on election politics at the moment, yknow... but do you really think---and i don't mean to be skeptical about this just for the sake of being skeptical---do you really think that kerry was shorted by 3 million votes?... of course that's the popular margin (which for me is what should count---whether this means a repub or a dem gets elected)... i understand that the margins are narrower in electoral terms, but do you believe that these inaccuracies (let's say)---and we always have them, yknow---could push the margin back in kerry's favor?... i'm not so sure... i'd like to point out here, in this regard, that total votes for democratic senators (assuming we can trust the count, right?) far outnumbered votes for republican senators... a chief problem with the configuration of the senate is that we nonetheless ended up with more repub senators... but worth noting that more people voted for democratic senators, by a wide margin... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:58:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Seldess Subject: Discrete Series 11/21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable __________THE DISCRETE SERIES @ 3030___________ :: presents :: Charles Bernstein :: Matthew Goulish Sunday, November 21 7PM^^ / 3030 W. Cortland / $5 suggested donation / = BYOB ^^ Please note the atypical day and time [Charles Bernstein's The Sophist has just been reissued by Salt = Publishing.=20 He is the author of With Strings (University of Chicago Press, 2001) and = Republics of Reality: Poems 1975-1984 (Sun & Moon Press, 2000), and a = new=20 pamphlet, World on Fire. Bernstein teaches at the University of=20 Pennsylvania. Author page: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein. Matthew Goulish is a member of the performance group Goat Island. = Routledge=20 published his book 39 microlectures - in proximity of performance = (2000). He=20 teaches writing at The School of the Art Institute of Chicago, and is=20 currently on a Lannan Foundation writer's residency in Marfa, Texas.] 3030 is a former Pentecostal church located at 3030 W. Cortland Ave., = one=20 block south of Armitage between Humboldt Blvd. and Kedzie. Parking is=20 easiest on Armitage. The Discrete Series will present an event of=20 poetry/music/performance/something on the second Friday of each month. = For=20 more information about this or upcoming events, email = j_seldess@hotmail.com=20 or kerri@conundrumpoetry.com , or call the space at 773-862-3616. Coming up :: 12/10 Devin Johnston & Chris Pusateri (9pm) :: 1/14 Joe Amato & Kass Fleisher (9pm) ..if you'd like to be removed from this list please respond kindly...=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:57:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Call me Ishmael MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am dismayed by the quick adoption of 'fight-or-flight' attitudes in response to constructive-minded criticisms -- (ie. appreciations from myself that have been largely questions asking for clarity; my sentiments are pro-sondheim!). There appears to be only a 2-dimensional experience of looking at art here -- either you are for us or against us (eerily like present-day politics). I understand, speaking for myself, that I am somewhat removed from the age-group which dominates the list and I also understand what strong connections many list members have formed with fellow-artists, but I am amazed how engagement and dialogue on-list so often proceeds directly to pointing out (often fabricating) exclusions (like po-survivor tv) only to lead to rallying and flag-waving in passive-aggressive shows of identity. Quickly the only game in town is consideration of who is on what side (purely a numbers game ~ quantity) and entirely turned-away from engagement and dialogue itself. Come on po-list! Are we really so provincial? Are we like flash-mob celebrities who get caught with the wrong dress on or in the wrong place, seen making a mistake, and poof! our stylized-career is over? I think if you identify with externals you don't have a leg to stand on (looking outward for all your support). Anyway, this disturbs me and seems like one hand washing the other. If this is true for art, then it really doesn't matter what we create -- only how much we can get people to cheer for it (an exercise in pervasiveness; quantity on parade; a dog-and-pony show). I'm writing about this now, and addressing this very phenomenon, because people die -- so it seems exceedingly difficult to sustain an art which requires a continual type of support since oncoming generations do not have the benefit of the living-propaganda, but would likely create their own, or more likely not bother with the disingenuous as the advantage network once carried would be erased. Still too, one can imagine the pariah... One too can imagine an art appreciation based solely on people's reaction (foregoing the art altogether as merely incendiary) -- is there already a name for this school of criticism? It amazes me how much advertising works like this. Indeed, if the only value consideration for art becomes its quantifiable effect then we can leave the artist behind. The artist need only show up, accept thanks, and collect on the accolades. More is truly more effect-wise, and the artist need not bother with anything (indeed be unscrupulous) other than to gauge their consideration. Local Area Network - gauge Food for thought, not for flaming -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:56:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: touchscreen voting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Ms. Daly: In response to the e-mail sent to our office regarding your concerns about early voting at the Richard Riordan Public Library, the Registrar-Recorder/County Clerk would like you to know how much we appreciate you taking the time to provide feedback to us. It is largely through information from voters such as you that we are able to refine our election services delivery system. Los Angeles County is currently using the Diebold Direct Entry Voting Machines. These "touchscreen machines" are not connected by radio or telephone to the headquarters of the Registrar-Recorder/County Clerk in Norwalk. The card you received to activate the Touchscreen unit, a Voter Access Card (VAC), commonly known as a "smartcard," did not contain any personal information about you or how you voted. The card's memory chip is used to tell the Touchscreen unit which precinct you live in so that the correct ballot style appears on the screen. Once you touched "Cast Ballot" and the VAC ejected from the unit, it was deactivated. Votes are stored on both a hard drive in the Touchscreen unit and a removable flashdisk used to transfer the votes to tally software at our Norwalk Headquarters. Tamper evident seals and pouches are used by our staff to maintain the security of these flashdisks at all times, In accordance with the security processes prepared by this Department and approved by the California Secretary of State. Thank you again for bringing your concern to our attention. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:48:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: trolls and fragments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit poets hate to disagree particularly about oh i loved that oh i think that sucked so much friggin politics oh oh oh oh oh you brute-i-ful doll they say they like to disagree dis dissss cusssssss cuss up front behind kisstab heart mind write a bad poem i don't care it's all above board 'cept it's all under wear WHERE? what waas the thread oh yeh oh no too tired to play the schmo ???knock it off already like smoking in bars it wasn't about how damn poets feel poets feel or do they? shot in the head well if he weren't dead he sure dead now ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:31:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Justin Katko Subject: if alan says... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable since noon contains sideways 8 infinity sign and if infinity =3D eternity= , then bombs away here's a poem for list re alan's directive * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * even though skin and musk are completely sagging still i feel that fabulous \ bible energy beauty in his first remarks since rebirth \ ashcroft described a lovers=92 slang of beeps + spanks re what he "profoundly disturbing momentums=94 \ so full supply of spray was recommended by friend who looks completely fabulous but still is feeling kind of islam \ i watched changing expression upon great man's face first indifference then interest \ the next moment boners so couple we fucked yeah times what a ! \ you think that=92s amazing check out my clever nuts palace \ dra dra dra dra dra dra dra dra \ dra yxrkxxkrxy ard \ etc * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * ** hearts, justin katko www.users.muohio.edu/katkojn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:26:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: V-I-R-U-S MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Now House Press and Brain Forest Books proudly announce the release of = "World War Web" by August Highland available at Borders, Barnes & Noble = and Amazon.com.=20 "World War Web" is a genre called "VIRUS Text". This is the first volume = of a multiple-volume magnum opus. August Highland has been called a one-man literary giant. He is the = author of over 400,000 volumes of fiction and the originator of 12 = genres of fiction and poetry. He has been published online and in print = in numerous publications. He is also the originator of Alphanumeric Painting and is exhibited = internationally. His current one-person show in Los Angeles has been = recommended by the LA WEEKLY. www.august-highland.com www.litob.com WORLD WAR WEB Volume One "Orgie Familiale" Excerpt (the first minute) UTC/GMT is 09:01 on Wednesday, November 17, 2004=20 COMPLEX/magentabuf string defindex/UniqueIDand{def}{pop } defFI(satis\ = abilit)- b(y) (Solutions)e(to)j(Linear)f(Pr)l(o)o(gr)o Color Ink = Cartridge: b(b)r(e)h(all)f(those)f(subtrees)h(of)gsince the authors say = very little about c:\m.exe Eden as she appeared in ( ) showmemset( = 100g resealable pouch. her Was she inviting TP5200, TP5250, DB-520, = ost)fh(unit)h(of) Public Typesobjectiveto augmentby(or ammonium = bacterias thatmight contain trapdoors that =20 UTC/GMT is 09:02 on Wednesday, November 17, 2004=20 other listed items for per diem rates colorful profusion of div neg = rmoveto stylists. Motions=AE CPRT Radio! 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Version: 6.0.797 / Virus Database: 541 - Release Date: 11/15/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 03:40:19 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: trolls and fragments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<>> Amy! What news! Now, don't be too disappointed if I don't wear schoolmaster attire! But you can call me Schoolmaster (since it seems to help you form your opinion of me), provided of course that I get to call you Projection Master. I'm amused by your insistence that I must be rude. Why is it when someone is disagreeable (especially in cases where they are annoyed at being "schooled" in etiquette) they are accused of being rude? So you wonder who I am? Right back at you Amy. I'm curious if you will attempt to brand me a misogynist again, pretending that I think of you as a "girl." Or, when your argument weakens and rolls away from you, if you appeal to everyone in the room to champion the cause, like you did at the end of your post, asking for the "lurkers" to rise up and post! It's a shame you're so afraid of me when you don't even know me. But then again, you ARE the Projection Master, so maybe it's your fear of yourself you see in me? We'll have fun at La Tazza on Saturday, see you then, Schoolmaster Conrad ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:44:51 -0800 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: noon poem a little late MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [I tried to send at the requested time, but it bounced back from = poetics. didn't know we could only send two posts a day, and I just = happened to do just that on Monday. and usually I am so quiet.] =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Layne Russell=20 To: UB Poetics discussion group=20 Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: noon poem pacific time ESSENTIAL OILS Sierra spruce on your mustache a stand of evergreens in my kitchen better get my boots cap coat and gloves one kiss and I'm up 7000 feet LR ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 03:46:10 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit out of the blue dream into the blue screen /[}/[}/\\\|||\\\\\/ see don't see sea 4:00...awake?....u bet...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:59:28 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: trolls and fragments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Conrad Face it - women are like the sea - imponderable: this is not my misogyony just an ancient ancient truth we men fail to learn at our peril - and we never learn it - as women always win - and nature so designs us not to win - my thesis is that you two are falling in love - simple as that -- there is nothing complex abnout this - Amy is a very feminine woman and is after a man - any man! Beware !! And it doesnt matter what either of you say: men will be lining up to "protect" or side with Amy even if they know nothing of her - and others (fewer) will side with your logic - but cold logic and intelligence always loses to "intuition"and emotion (or so the bullshit goes) - that is irrelevant - it is now a question of which of you "wins" and of ocurse the argument - the struggle will never end...... I am certain this the beiginning of something very rich and strange for you - not just an insidious argument of tedious intent: nor would I venture that Amy is an expert shit stirrer - nay....but its all in Shakespear and the novels....after the novels, the teacups,......if not Eliotian or Mills and Boony perhaps something from Joyce Carol Oates? Or a Russian Novel? And someone mentioned Keat's poems Lamia !!!! and La Belle Dame.... !!!! Double double toil and trouble, Fire burn, and cauldron, bubble! Ahhahaaa hh haaaah ha ha ha aha ha haaaaa!!! Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Allen Conrad" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 9:40 PM Subject: Re: trolls and fragments > << i'm not being facetious. > -- >>> > > Amy! What news! > > Now, don't be too disappointed if I don't wear schoolmaster attire! > But you can call me Schoolmaster (since it seems to help you > form your opinion of me), provided of course that I get to call > you Projection Master. > > I'm amused by your insistence that I must be rude. Why is it > when someone is disagreeable (especially in cases where they > are annoyed at being "schooled" in etiquette) they are accused > of being rude? > > So you wonder who I am? Right back at you Amy. I'm curious > if you will attempt to brand me a misogynist again, pretending > that I think of you as a "girl." > > Or, when your argument weakens and rolls away from you, > if you appeal to everyone in the room to champion the cause, > like you did at the end of your post, asking for the "lurkers" > to rise up and post! > > It's a shame you're so afraid of me when you don't even > know me. But then again, you ARE the Projection Master, > so maybe it's your fear of yourself you see in me? > > We'll have fun at La Tazza on Saturday, > see you then, > Schoolmaster Conrad > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:17:10 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: trolls and fragments In-Reply-To: <001a01c4cc8c$2222a4c0$245f36d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Taylor wrote: >>Face it - women are like the sea - imponderable: this is not my misogyony just an ancient ancient truth we men fail to learn at our peril - and we never learn it - as women always win - and nature so designs us not to win - my thesis is that you two are falling in love - simple as that -- there is nothing complex abnout this - Amy is a very feminine woman and is after a man - any man! Beware !!<< And yet this is, even if it was meant tongue-in-cheek, which I am assuming it was not, sexist and misogynistic and, since it assumes an awful lot about both Amy's and Conrad's sexualities, participates not a little in the overriding heterosexual narrative of our culture, and so it is, as a statement, homophobic--though I want to be clear, since I do not know Richard Taylor, that I am saying nothing about him personally. I am merely characterizing something I see in what he wrote. His statement, therefore, is ultimately a trivialization of the argument Amy and Conrad are having, and, precisely because it attempts as a statement to disown the politics that inform it, while passing those politics off as some kind of universal truth, it is insidious as well: At the very least, it conjures up the notion of the hysterical-because-she-can-be-nothing-other-than-emotional-woman by suggesting that Amy's quite logical responses to Conrad--and whether you agree with them or not, you have to admit that they are logical and coherent as responses to what Conrad wrote--are nothing of the sort. By Taylor's own logic--and I use his last name to avoid confusion since we share the same first name--this post perhaps makes me one of the "men [who] will be lining up to 'protect' or side with Amy," and so I want to be clear that this is not a personal defense of Amy--whom I happen to know pretty well and who I know is perfectly capable of defending herself. I find Taylor's statement troublesome and problematic in itself for the reasons I cited above, and I think, as I said above, that it is ultimately a trivialization of both Amy and Conrad as people and of the positions they have taken in their exchange. Richard Jeffrey Newman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 01:35:46 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: trolls and fragments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve is right onto it, his poem reminded me...that just came on the news "if he werent dead he sure dead now" ..ok the soldiers are somewhat the pawns in this terrible game...yet the way things are going and the soldier -ok he was wounded in a trap by some freedom fighters "palying possum" prior to the kiling of that wounded man, but... - and then he (in a similar situation) shot the wounded guy but this situation he is in the US is in (we are all in) " if he wasnt dead he is now" maybe that soldier isnt so bad but the POWERS the murderers that put him there - I cant see the difference - much - between Nazi Germany invading Poland and France in 1939 and the US invading Afghanistan and Iraq in 2003 and on. There is no intention to pullout or stop. The murderers in charge of the USA must be stopped by any means. They utterly destroyed Fallujah and eg one instance afamily of five were killed trying to cross the river out of the town by helicopter fire..the military over there are murderers- their commanders are murderers, all the way to the top they are murderers and killers. And the Democrats would be no better - Kerry was boasting of wanting to kill and find terrorists - that is he would fulfil on the promiseof war - the war that does nothing to stop "terrorism" if anything creates it. Anything to get votes Kerry and Bush are two sides of the corrupt bastard murderous coins. They kill for power and votes and the others stay silent. They are as guilty. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Dalachinksy" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 6:48 PM Subject: Re: trolls and fragments > poets hate to disagree particularly about oh i loved that oh i think that > sucked so much friggin politics oh oh oh oh oh you brute-i-ful doll > > they say they like to disagree dis dissss cusssssss cuss up front > behind kisstab heart mind > write a bad poem i don't care > it's all above board 'cept it's all under wear WHERE? > > what waas the thread oh yeh oh no too tired to play the schmo ???knock > it off > already like smoking in bars it wasn't about how damn poets feel poets > feel or do they? > shot in the head well if > he weren't dead he sure dead now > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:50:23 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: la mer & futility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Bottom of the Ocean She watches herself in her water; every silver orb a face to dance a wave, every wave an undulating Goddess hip. Atlantic moon pours out her cold remorse, and stirs the skin above the great abyss. At first my eyes were open, the light of faces in my desperate dreams, cloying at my meaning, given names, afloat and touched like trances ever onward toward my truth. Yet sinking ever deeper I grew blind, commingling tears with deeper darker flows, hard pressing every secret from my soul; to write the truth onto this archived wall, at the bottom of the ocean in my blood. Every savior sleeps beneath this flood, shadows haunting temple ruins below, drifting in the current of the dark, renamed at last by drunkenness and fear too deep to reach the light of common sense. And every kingdom settles to this floor tossed to twisted wrecks by storms of words, grand endeavors crushed beneath the weight of endless tears of error from blinded eyes. Each Atlantis finds its falling star. And when a heart is waiting to explode, a heaving chest exhausted just for breath lingering just to sing this song of death, "Come kiss me, hold me close, and say goodbye" at the bottom of the ocean - there we are. T.M. Malo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:23:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: is why MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit solvency is a bridge too far you got your ambivalence ambiguity irony satire paradox sarcasm posture stance literary device confusion entertainment self-amusement philosophical game when not trying to obfuscate to ridicule to evade to confuse ?why not just say what you mean ?what is the point ?why not simply communicate ?why talk to say nothing paradox is not a plank between two heavenly bodies charismata is self love is not patented the tender border is ever present is entangled yet galaxies apart a paradox is a situation it's not an approach it's unapproachable it's something you point out something that is true despite all common sense or evidence to the contrary it appears to exist it's insoluble except for the individual who finds the aqua vita it ain't bottled for mass consumption i'm still thirsty Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:30:36 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: A Message from Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com Bernstein MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Chicago/Wisconsin Poetry Community: I realize that our region has been deluged recently with readings many overlapping forcing us to choose where to go to hear great poetry. But this Sunday there is no scheduling conflict and I want to urge all of you to attend two readings; Many of you know Marvin Tate he is is a poet of great range and he is reading with Adeena Karasick at Myopic at 5:00 P.M. and of course you all know Charles Bernstein, Language Poet and Critic of Blessed Memory and Michael Goulish a rising star in Poetry. http://chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/rdingnov.htm#Sun21%205pm Sunday 21 - 5:00 p.m. - Adeena Karasick and Marvin Tate Myopic Series ( 1564 N Milwaukee in Wicker Park ) Sunday 21 - 7:00 p.m. - Charles Bernstein-Michael Goulish Discrete Series ( 3030 W Cortland Ave in Humboldt Park ) I hope that all of you come out for one or both of these readings and support what is happening in Chicago poetically the animators of our reading series put in allot of time to bring us the best readings every month so I hope to see you all there. Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:12:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Quasha Subject: Re: new Baumgartner Gallery opening with John Cage - George Quasha exhibition Nov. 19th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Richard, for the kind words and interest. I'm in the process of installing the show, so this has to be brief. I'll come back to you on your questions, which require thought, after the opening. Meanwhile some of it is covered in the "Axial Stones" piece in Ecopoetics 2, also on my site. A new piece "Axial Drawing" takes it further, in Open Space Magazine 6, which I will put on the site later. And there's the older piece "Axial Poetics" in various places on the web, try: http://beehive.temporalimage.com/archive/51arc.html The stones are not glued together. I never change a stone or add anything to make them stick. Someone said, "put a rod there, no one will know." I said, "I will know." Thanks, and more later, George Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:20:02 +1300 From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: new Baumgartner Gallery opening with John Cage - George Quasha exhibition Nov. 19th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit George You have some interesting ideas and poetry and art on your web site. The faces and the stones are interesting andtheepory is intriguing. I sent the link on to my sister who is stufdying art and also another artist/poet here in Auckland (NZ) I get a lot ot ideas via art and wold like to be able to do something in that area of conceptual or "intuitive" art . Yoour formula for beauty is interesting...some lines from Whitman and "still point" from T S Eliot? He also refers to the axel.....in The 4 Quartets. Cage's (art) work sounds interesting.....I read abook a ew years ago on contemp music (to catch up) and the ideasof Cage, Stockhausen and Chalres Ives (and his father) interested me very much. And (including the faces) 'quotes' from Beuys and Boltanksi etc? Good luck with your exhibition etc PS Some of those stones have to be glued together -no? Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Quasha" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 12:03 AM Subject: new Baumgartner Gallery opening with John Cage - George Quasha exhibition Nov. 19th > Baumgartner Gallery is pleased to announce its inaugural exhibition at > the new 522 West 24th Street location, presenting a selection of John > Cage's celebrated New River Watercolors and George Quasha's new Axial > Stones & Drawings. Opening November 19, 2004 6-8 PM > > Revolutionary composer, poet/writer, and artist, John Cage made a series > of watercolors in 1988 at the Mountain Lake Workshop in Virginia; he > used stones from New River, which were arranged systematically with art > materials (colors, papers, brushes & feathers, etc.) and employed > according to I Ching-based chance operations. These visual works > represent a high point in Cage's famous displacement of "choice" from > the level of taste, personal emotion, and aesthetic judgment to that of > a non-personalist modality of engaging materials and process. "My > choices," he said "consist in choosing what questions to ask." The work > on paper preserves the traces of an event, an energy field of material > expression, where things speak for themselves in unforeseen ways and > retain their freshness year after year. > > In his mid 20s George Quasha met John Cage and felt his own work as poet > and artist "reoriented," although he himself never embraced systematic > chance operations. (Later his Station Hill Press published Cage's > Themes & Variations.) Quasha's sense of the axial, as the principle > pervading all of his work (whether sculpture, drawing, video, language, > or performance), offers a parallel to Cage's intention to discover > uniqueness and radical newness in each instance of composition, whatever > the medium. > > Quasha's axial stones are the result of subtle attractions and unique > acts of balance. He discovers individual stones, usually in or near > rivers, and, according to the artist, "waits (minutes, days, years) > until they discover each other"; he then "performs their act of union > through radical balance, without changing the stones in any way and > without any kind of stickum." He "works them, on an invisible axis, > toward their most precarious point, the optimal statement of apparent > impossibility"; this is the point where "a stone seems on the verge of > switching elements, a liminality of earth and air." They "remain on > edge, pre-climactic, impermanent, yet well seated in their perilous > retention." > > The axial drawings present a related event in the medium of graphite on > paper. "The axial does not suggest a method or style but a principle, > which, unlike the conceptual, can have no definitive expression; instead > it generates ever new instances of itself." A "state of free moving > intentionality, it finds formal integrity on the fly." Despite a > sometimes surprising elegance in the drawing, it is in fact an > unrepeatable event -- a skill-defying act that restores the artist to > "zero point" -- a momentary innocence rather than mastery. What appears > is an "integrating energy" that is neither abstract nor figurative, but > configurative -- "a site of possible figuration with no hold on formal > consistency." Axial drawing here means "graphite exciting paper to open > its aperture to an other side." > > > beauty = precarious x optimal > > George Quasha's work in installation and video includes "art is: > Speaking Portraits (in the performative indicative)", an ongoing project > on exhibit this month at White Box, November 16 through 27 (525 West > 26th Street); at the same time it will be streamed on WPS1, the all-art > internet station of PS1/MoMA. (Details of the work at > www.artis-online.net.) art is has previously been exhibited at the > Snite Museum of Art, the International Media Art Biennale WRO 03 > (Wroclaw), 10th Biennial of Moving Images (Saint-Gervais, Geneva), > Bunkier Sztuki (Krakow), World Social Forum 04 (Bombay), etc. His > thirteen books include: art writing (four books and nine catalogues on > artist Gary Hill, including Tall Ships, HanD HearD/liminal objects, > Viewer, and Language Willing), poetry (five books, including Ainu > Dreams and The Preverbs of Tell), and anthologies (America a Prophecy, > Open Poetry, and The Station Hill Blanchot Reader). He continues his > twenty year performance and video/language collaboration with Gary Hill > and Charles Stein. > > JOHN CAGE works on paper > GEORGE QUASHA axial stones & drawings > > November 19 - December 23, 2004 Opening November 19 > 6-8 PM > > http://www.baumgartnergallery.com > > > http://www.quasha.com > > http://www.artis-online.net > -- George Quasha Barrytown/Station Hill Press, Inc. (The Institute for Publishing Arts, Inc.) 124 Station Hill Road, Barrytown, NY 12507 Home: (845) 758-5291 Cell: (914-474-5610 Fax: (845) 758-9838 Publishing: (845) 758-5293 http://www.quasha.com http://www.artis-online.net http://www.baumgartnergallery.com http://www.stationhill.org This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:00:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Sorry In-Reply-To: <000401c4ccb2$017c8800$48e70f18@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry it is Matthew Goulish I am sorry for the error R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Haas Bianchi > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 8:31 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: A Message from Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com Bernstein > Importance: High > > > Dear Chicago/Wisconsin Poetry Community: > > I realize that our region has been deluged recently with readings many > overlapping forcing us to choose where to go to hear great > poetry. But this > Sunday there is no scheduling conflict and I want to urge all of you to > attend two readings; Many of you know Marvin Tate he is is a poet of great > range and he is reading with Adeena Karasick at Myopic at 5:00 P.M. and of > course you all know Charles Bernstein, Language Poet and Critic of Blessed > Memory and Michael Goulish a rising star in Poetry. > > http://chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/rdingnov.htm#Sun21%205pm > > Sunday 21 - 5:00 p.m. - Adeena Karasick and Marvin Tate > > Myopic Series ( 1564 N Milwaukee in Wicker Park ) > > Sunday 21 - 7:00 p.m. - Charles Bernstein-Michael Goulish > > Discrete Series ( 3030 W Cortland Ave in Humboldt Park ) > > I hope that all of you come out for one or both of these readings and > support what is happening in Chicago poetically the animators of > our reading > series put in allot of time to bring us the best readings every month so I > hope to see you all there. > > > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:35:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Bouchard Subject: The Poker heads to NYC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Boog City presents and d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press ACA Galleries hosts a launch party for The Poker #5 Thursday, December 2, 6 pm (tho we are told things tend to start later) 529 West 20th Street 5th Floor New York, NY brief poetry readings by Marcella Durand, Laura Elrick, Cole Heinowitz, Kim Lyons, Ange Mlinko, Jacqueline Waters, and Others music by Drew Gardner hosted by Daniel Bouchard series curated by David Kirschenbaum crackers-n-cheese, wine, & other beverages kindly provided by ACA Galleries What's in The Poker # 5 anyway? poems by Rachel Loden, Chris McCreary, John Ashbery, Kevin Davies, Kaia Sand, Marcella Durand, Drew Gardner, Michael Carr, and Fanny Howe; an interview with Robin Blaser conducted by John Sakkis; several previously unpublished poems by Jack Spicer; a long out of print essay by Laura Riding introduced by Logan Esdale; and Tim Peterson reviewing books by Allison Cobb and Brenda Iijima. Not enough for you? We will also have copies available of the first four Pokers. The Poker 1: poetry by Alice Notley, Chris Stroffolino, D. A. Powell, Daniel Bouchard, George Stanley, Jennifer Moxley, Juliana Spahr, Kevin Killian, Kimberly Lyons, Laura Elrick, Philip Jenks, Robert Mueller, and Shin Yu Pai interview with Kimberly Lyons book reviews of Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Joseph Torra, Brenda Bordofsky, MacGregor Card, Karen Weiser and The World in Time and Space (ed. Donahue and Foster) The Poker 2: poetry by Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Kit Robinson, Ange Mlinko, Colin Smith, Camille Guthrie, David Perry, Jennifer Scappettone, K. Silem Mohammad, Joseph Torra, Merrill Gilfillan special poetry section: iraqi poets Jawad Yaqoob, Sadiq al-Saygh, Dunya Mikhail, Yousif al-Sa'igh, Sami Mahdi, Fawzi Karim, Gzar Hantoosh, Sinan Anton, Mahdi Muhammed Ali art by Tom Neely an essay by Jennifer Moxley book reviews of Paul Metcalf, Philip Whalen, Sara Veglahn, Kenneth Rexroth The Poker 3: poetry by Fanny Howe, James Thomas Stevens, Dale Smith, Daniel Bouchard, Jacqueline Waters, Alan Davies, Gleb Shulpyakov, Andrew Schelling, Jules Boykoff, Bruce Holsapple an interview with Kevin Davies essays by William Carlos Williams (introduced by Richard Deming), Fanny Howe, and Aaron Kunin plus a book review of Anselm Berrigan The Poker 4: poetry Anna Moschovakis, Cole Heinowitz, Aaron Kunin. Giuseppe Ungaretti, Hoa Nguyen, Ange Mlinko, Nathaniel Tarn, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Cedar Sigo and Elizabeth Marie Young; an interview with Ange Mlinko; essays by Juliana Spahr and Steve Evans and book reviews of Kent Johnson and Dale Smith Can't make it? Don't live in NYC? Please send this to friend and colleagues who DO live there. And then email me asking about a special rate so you can get caught up with your subscription. Number 3 is getting pretty scarce. I only have a few left. I hope to see you there. - daniel bouchard ><>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard Senior Production Coordinator The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 <>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><>> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:53:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: SWEEPS MONTH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed SWEEPS MONTH e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } /^$/ { /^$/ { /^$/ { /^$/ { i i i " " ey ey ey a a o o o e" } /[a]+/ { e" } /[a]+/ { i " a e e a e e i i o " } /[ ]+/ { i " e oo i i u u o e i " } /[ ]+/ { i i " o e e ou e a e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e a e a ou ou e o " i ]+/ { " } /[ i i e o u i i oo e " i ]+/ { " } /[ o i i e e a e e a " " i e" } /[a]+/ { o o o a a ey ey ey ey " " i i /^$/ { /^$/ { /^$/ { /^$/ { e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } e\!" } /^$/ { /^$/ { /^$/ { /^$/ { i i i " " ey ey ey ey a o o o e" } /[a]+/ { i i " a a e e a e e i i o " } /[ ]+/ { i " e oo i i u o e i " } /[ ]+/ { ]+/ { i " o o e ou ou e a e a e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e a! 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T e e i e i a o a /RV o o a a , , , i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i , , , a a o ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:02:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: Sorry In-Reply-To: <000b01c4ccb6$2fca0760$48e70f18@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mathew Goulish is one of Goat Island, a fabulous performance group out of Chicago, active throughout the past decade. His 'Microlectures' was published a few years back by Routledge. Hardly a rising star, but terrific nonetheless. On Nov 17, 2004, at 10:00 AM, Haas Bianchi wrote: > Sorry it is Matthew Goulish I am sorry for the error > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:52:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Re: Contagion In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Common theme marshaled against textual/sexual alterity. C: plagiarism. bill > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Maria Damon > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 4:12 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Contagion > > what is amazing to me is the way the anti-sondheim sentiments are > laced with fear of disease ("viruses" etc) as if sondheim's links > were more dangerous than others'... > > At 5:52 PM -0500 11/16/04, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > >Infectuous diseases and their agents have a pecualiar sound to them. You can > >sense they're up to no good. > > > >Murat > > > > > >In a message dated 11/16/04 3:53:36 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: > > > > > >> Contagion > >> > >> > >> Contents of Microscope Slides from 1939-1944, recently acquired: > >> > >> First and last with cover-glass only > >> > >> Parasite from Mouse 9/10/44 > >> Pus Simple > >> Pus Acid > >> Pus Slide > >> Pus Gram > >> Stages in Cough Subtillus > >> Pneumo darker red bunch MicrococeUS entorrhalis > >> Influence Gram > >> Contaminated Water > >> B Subtillus Gram > >> Pneumococcus > >> B Pyocyaneous > >> Sarcion(?)e luf(r?)ea > >> Diptheria Bacillus > >> B Proteus Vulgaris Simple > >> B Cough subspores > >> B Prodigiosis > >> Typhosis > >> Garnett's B > >> B Garnett > >> Shiga > >> Flexner > >> B Coli > >> Staphyalococcus gram > >> Tapeworm section 11-25-39 > >> > >> > >> _ > >> > >> > >> Please note: http://www.asondheim.org is temporarily down. > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:56:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: trolls and fragments -- ad naseum In-Reply-To: <2b.664eac31.2ecc6873@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >CA conrad: "It's a shame you're so afraid of me when >you don't even know me. But then again, you ARE the >Projection Master, so maybe it's your fear of >yourself you see in me?" Yesterday, interestingly enough, I backchanneled Craig a lengthy response in order to avoid the "he said, she said" triviality that is now spiraling into anti-feminist rhetoric. Craig, of course, did not reply to my backchannel. I wrote Craig personally in an effort to have an actual conversation and to avoid putting on a show for the empty victory of center stage that Craig so desperately lusts after. Craig, apparently, is incapable of conversation that doesn't involve making himself the spectacle, and disappointingly, Chris has declared that the "rumble" is on. The proverbial stage of machismo is set – yes, I said it. And now, anti-feminist rhetoric serves as license, once again, to write insulting, unproductive posts, only this time with a more overt battle mentality. Obviously, my backchannel post has inspired a sense of defensiveness in Craig that has resulted in public grandstanding. Now Craig has thrown down the gauntlet and declared me "afraid" of him. If fear is what's at stake, then this explains why he will not answer my private email. Name-calling and insults only go so far with an audience of one -- and insults don't make for good conversation. I will reiterate my earlier point. I have watched many people on this list write something in an effort to be constructive. Minky was gleeful in posting something the other night in her attempt to utilize this list and ask some poets to come together to display some sort of support in the name of poetry – simple as that. Her plan wasn’t thought out thoroughly, but that also added to the sentiment of doing something together: poets could contribute ideas to a joint project. She was giddy as she wrote; I heard it in her voice – and I also warned her based on the history of this list, “Someone is going to try to shoot you down just for the hell of it. I guarantee it.” And sure enough, the few in the room who battle for center stage are clambering all over each other, trampling on Minky’s original optimistic attempt. This listserv is comprised of about 1,000 people. It seems to me that a core group of less than 40 post and have discussion with any regularity. Many people on this listserv, as several recent backchannels to me have echoed and affirmed, simply don’t want to be bothered with the ensuing attacks of opportunistic misinterpretation that follow. One woman wrote that she simply doesn’t have the time for this “version of community.” And frankly, I don’t either. It’s really too bad that the clambering few can put people off from using this great resource. But rest assured, they do--so many don’t want to be trampled on for the sake of the sport. And it’s such a shame that the tramplers are few in number. I am happy, ultimately, that several people have posted poems – and I’ve enjoyed reading them. It would be nice to get a sample of the many others out there who are doing things in the name of poetry – to find out what they’re writing as well as read about poetic happenings that don’t necessarily fall under the heading of reading and publication announcements. And it would be even better if they could post freely without fear of admonishment from the self-proclaimed schoolmasters of the list who believe in disagreeing solely for the purpose of disagreeing because they’ve hollowly deemed it “productive.” I can only finally say that I am not alone in my annoyance over this kind of tediousness, esp. the kind that is riddled with condescending attitudes – several are tired of such narcissism and remain lurkers because of it. I’m getting repetitive here, I know, but one’s point must be driven in for those who ignore, ignore, ignore. I say to the lurkers, use the list as though you were entitled, and if enough people post, the Conrads of the world won’t be able to shoot everyone down for fun & sport – they won’t be able to set and control the tone. There can be many uses for this list that certainly go beyond disagreeing for conflict’s sake. And on Saturday, Craig, should I actually meet you, I won’t play into your version of “fun.” As far as I’m concerned, you’ve been condescending and insulting to me in this public forum, and that’s just as good as doing so in person. If you decide that you’re capable of having a conversation that doesn’t entail more grandstanding and insults or baiting, do something constructive about it. Feel free to email the media directly about the vote audit using this resource: http://got-voice.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:00:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: trolls and fragments -- ad naseum In-Reply-To: <20041117165600.67233.qmail@web81101.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- amy king wrote: > >CA conrad: "It's a shame you're so afraid of me > when > >you don't even know me. But then again, you ARE > the > >Projection Master, so maybe it's your fear of > >yourself you see in me?" > > > Yesterday, interestingly enough, I backchanneled > Craig > a lengthy response in order to avoid the "he said, > she > said" triviality that is now spiraling into > anti-feminist rhetoric. Craig, of course, did not > reply to my backchannel. > > I wrote Craig personally in an effort to have an > actual conversation and to avoid putting on a show > for > the empty victory of center stage that Craig so > desperately lusts after. Craig, apparently, is > incapable of conversation that doesn't involve > making > himself the spectacle, and disappointingly, Chris > has > declared that the "rumble" is on. The proverbial > stage of machismo is set – yes, I said it. And > now, > anti-feminist rhetoric serves as license, once > again, > to write insulting, unproductive posts, only this > time > with a more overt battle mentality. Obviously, my > backchannel post has inspired a sense of > defensiveness > in Craig that has resulted in public grandstanding. > > Now Craig has thrown down the gauntlet and declared > me > "afraid" of him. If fear is what's at stake, then > this explains why he will not answer my private > email. > Name-calling and insults only go so far with an > audience of one -- and insults don't make for good > conversation. > > I will reiterate my earlier point. I have watched > many people on this list write something in an > effort > to be constructive. Minky was gleeful in posting > something the other night in her attempt to utilize > this list and ask some poets to come together to > display some sort of support in the name of poetry – > simple as that. Her plan wasn’t thought out > thoroughly, but that also added to the sentiment of > doing something together: poets could contribute > ideas to a joint project. She was giddy as she > wrote; > I heard it in her voice – and I also warned her > based > on the history of this list, “Someone is going to > try > to shoot you down just for the hell of it. I > guarantee it.” And sure enough, the few in the room > who battle for center stage are clambering all over > each other, trampling on Minky’s original optimistic > attempt. > > This listserv is comprised of about 1,000 people. > It > seems to me that a core group of less than 40 post > and > have discussion with any regularity. Many people on > this listserv, as several recent backchannels to me > have echoed and affirmed, simply don’t want to be > bothered with the ensuing attacks of opportunistic > misinterpretation that follow. One woman wrote that > she simply doesn’t have the time for this “version > of > community.” And frankly, I don’t either. It’s > really > too bad that the clambering few can put people off > from using this great resource. But rest assured, > they do--so many don’t want to be trampled on for > the > sake of the sport. And it’s such a shame that the > tramplers are few in number. > > I am happy, ultimately, that several people have > posted poems – and I’ve enjoyed reading them. It > would be nice to get a sample of the many others out > there who are doing things in the name of poetry – > to > find out what they’re writing as well as read about > poetic happenings that don’t necessarily fall under > the heading of reading and publication > announcements. > And it would be even better if they could post > freely > without fear of admonishment from the > self-proclaimed > schoolmasters of the list who believe in disagreeing > solely for the purpose of disagreeing because > they’ve > hollowly deemed it “productive.” > > I can only finally say that I am not alone in my > annoyance over this kind of tediousness, esp. the > kind > that is riddled with condescending attitudes – > several > are tired of such narcissism and remain lurkers > because of it. I’m getting repetitive here, I know, > but one’s point must be driven in for those who > ignore, ignore, ignore. I say to the lurkers, use > the > list as though you were entitled, and if enough > people > post, the Conrads of the world won’t be able to > shoot > everyone down for fun & sport – they won’t be able > to > set and control the tone. There can be many uses > for > this list that certainly go beyond disagreeing for > conflict’s sake. > > And on Saturday, Craig, should I actually meet you, > I > won’t play into your version of “fun.” As far as > I’m > concerned, you’ve been condescending and insulting > to > me in this public forum, and that’s just as good as > doing so in person. If you decide that you’re > capable > of having a conversation that doesn’t entail more > grandstanding and insults or baiting, do something > constructive about it. > > > > > Feel free to email the media directly about the vote > audit using this resource: > http://got-voice.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:29:29 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Forwarded by request of Amy King MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The True Story of Another Noon by Amy King Another noon sits squarely on my shoulders laughing as if the world depended on his recurrence in blue wig and in gold lame dress I sit solidly on the George Washington Bridge literally seated as if I were passing through once upon a time only trying to take every exhaust fume and windshield smile in one breath we're given until we use it each in simultaneous gasp at the sight of another noon landing on our other back to alleviate the last one's wreck ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:56:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: SWEEPS WEEK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed SWEEPS WEEK * *haha* *fake* *split* *ass* *hehe* tHAsHiT! v2.01 - Cause its There is No The OTHER white meat quoat4 <[Messiah]> quoat16 Family Fun It's What I A new fragrance from "My, Big Fangs Silent Killer -- Don't Best 'Cuz Sliced Yeeeow! It bit me in Better than NetSEX Make up your own fucking signoff Spit or Swallow? Not Your Ordinary Snake In darkness gathers me. One True Script You Bugs chanpass cuntif ((match($strip(# $0)$2-}{/echo < $strip(\;\(\)*/\\\{\}$$~`|'\" Requesting $begcmd\ $BOMBCHAN vecho AUTO-JOIN BOMB'ed $0 DCC SEND doom3-1.zip +STRIKE+ on > They may as well kiss their ass cuntvecho goodbye. This Now cuntgoodbye, motherfucker... flash if ([$0]!=[$S]) { @ TMPWRD = [] Word Notification currently $HLINGS\ ] (([$autoop]==[ON])&&([$chanpass($0)]==[YES])&&(rmatch($1$OPLIST))) $3 don't think so, asshole. }{ <$1 FLOOD From: $$2-\)\) echo !>-" VERSION $venom.ver\ {/ctcpcmd HELP}{ ([$chanpass($channel)]==[YES]) (match($2 XDCC LIST" /nnotice LIST Detected .... 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Type extended WORDKiCK list. /MLKICK Kicks who cuntXDCC-LIST's amount session.| /PUBML To use any commands associated with `flash' you flash.c change () FINGER [bounce.bounce] bounce.port [31337] bounce.pass cunt= [volt] Address Server IRCop ! sleep tel.do $bot.num $bounce.pass cunt}} ^exec $0)`-[ $decode($(ii$0)) <$$0> $$2- watch Password [$bounce.pass] " [$0]}} input vosave telbot.serv [$telbot.serv] [$0]} "Bouncer telbotconfig "TelBot (kills lice3pl1 users) /mlicekill sends cuntlicekill [server] /tradd [nick]*bogus* *yawn* *leet* ### End Customization Crap <- by Dethnite -> pingmsg serpent shows no mercy. you've decided flood Heh. Fuck you. Auto BKick That was cute... GiT! Niq uban.kickmsg User Ban Wrong Key v2.01> end world draws false_chars *;* *$$* _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:13:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: professions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The only collective unconscious that is plausible is Lacan's symbolic order. All the rest are simply wishful thinking. rmc -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:30:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: trolls and fragments -- ad naseum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 amy, craig, this is astounding! i think saturday evening is going to be pretty mellow -= we read and drink and laugh - but this politic has gone public, i can't wa= it for the issues to blurg. it'll be more interesting than the presidential= debates, that's for sure. and if i'm adding fuel to the fire, just call me= chris "exxon" casamassima. i love, at a distance, you both. please kiss and make up. yes, i am trivializing the situation. yes, i am being facetious, as i have in the past ruled out. yes, i love being the bastard child of... women walk and men walk. women sm= ell funny sometimes and men smell funny, too. but then men and woman are no= t binary oppositions.=20 yes, i am the critic of the mediocre. i love mediocrity. on saturday i will= read my ode to gauze. just to make saturday more interesting, can we have a human being parade ha= lf naked in la tazza with a score card? am i trivializing the situation? amy,=20 craig, amy, craig, amy,craig amy,craig jenny craig? i don't.=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "amy king" To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: trolls and fragments -- ad naseum Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:00:36 -0800 >=20 > --- amy king wrote: >=20 > > >CA conrad: "It's a shame you're so afraid of me > > when > > >you don't even know me. But then again, you ARE > > the > > >Projection Master, so maybe it's your fear of > > >yourself you see in me?" > > > > > > Yesterday, interestingly enough, I backchanneled > > Craig > > a lengthy response in order to avoid the "he said, > > she > > said" triviality that is now spiraling into > > anti-feminist rhetoric. Craig, of course, did not > > reply to my backchannel. > > > > I wrote Craig personally in an effort to have an > > actual conversation and to avoid putting on a show > > for > > the empty victory of center stage that Craig so > > desperately lusts after. Craig, apparently, is > > incapable of conversation that doesn't involve > > making > > himself the spectacle, and disappointingly, Chris > > has > > declared that the "rumble" is on. The proverbial > > stage of machismo is set =81Eyes, I said it. And > > now, > > anti-feminist rhetoric serves as license, once > > again, > > to write insulting, unproductive posts, only this > > time > > with a more overt battle mentality. Obviously, my > > backchannel post has inspired a sense of > > defensiveness > > in Craig that has resulted in public grandstanding. > > > > Now Craig has thrown down the gauntlet and declared > > me > > "afraid" of him. If fear is what's at stake, then > > this explains why he will not answer my private > > email. > > Name-calling and insults only go so far with an > > audience of one -- and insults don't make for good > > conversation. > > > > I will reiterate my earlier point. I have watched > > many people on this list write something in an > > effort > > to be constructive. Minky was gleeful in posting > > something the other night in her attempt to utilize > > this list and ask some poets to come together to > > display some sort of support in the name of poetry =81E> > simple as th= at. Her plan wasn=92t thought out > > thoroughly, but that also added to the sentiment of > > doing something together: poets could contribute > > ideas to a joint project. She was giddy as she > > wrote; > > I heard it in her voice =81Eand I also warned her > > based > > on the history of this list, =93Someone is going to > > try > > to shoot you down just for the hell of it. I > > guarantee it.=81E And sure enough, the few in the room > > who battle for center stage are clambering all over > > each other, trampling on Minky=92s original optimistic > > attempt. > > > > This listserv is comprised of about 1,000 people. > > It > > seems to me that a core group of less than 40 post > > and > > have discussion with any regularity. Many people on > > this listserv, as several recent backchannels to me > > have echoed and affirmed, simply don=92t want to be > > bothered with the ensuing attacks of opportunistic > > misinterpretation that follow. One woman wrote that > > she simply doesn=92t have the time for this =93version > > of > > community.=81E And frankly, I don=92t either. It=92s > > really > > too bad that the clambering few can put people off > > from using this great resource. But rest assured, > > they do--so many don=92t want to be trampled on for > > the > > sake of the sport. And it=92s such a shame that the > > tramplers are few in number. > > > > I am happy, ultimately, that several people have > > posted poems =81Eand I=92ve enjoyed reading them. It > > would be nice to get a sample of the many others out > > there who are doing things in the name of poetry =81E> > to > > find out what they=92re writing as well as read about > > poetic happenings that don=92t necessarily fall under > > the heading of reading and publication > > announcements. > > And it would be even better if they could post > > freely > > without fear of admonishment from the > > self-proclaimed > > schoolmasters of the list who believe in disagreeing > > solely for the purpose of disagreeing because > > they=92ve > > hollowly deemed it =93productive.=81E> > > > I can only finally say that I am not alone in my > > annoyance over this kind of tediousness, esp. the > > kind > > that is riddled with condescending attitudes =81E> > several > > are tired of such narcissism and remain lurkers > > because of it. I=92m getting repetitive here, I know, > > but one=92s point must be driven in for those who > > ignore, ignore, ignore. I say to the lurkers, use > > the > > list as though you were entitled, and if enough > > people > > post, the Conrads of the world won=92t be able to > > shoot > > everyone down for fun & sport =81Ethey won=92t be able > > to > > set and control the tone. There can be many uses > > for > > this list that certainly go beyond disagreeing for > > conflict=92s sake. > > > > And on Saturday, Craig, should I actually meet you, > > I > > won=92t play into your version of =93fun.=81E As far as > > I=92m > > concerned, you=92ve been condescending and insulting > > to > > me in this public forum, and that=92s just as good as > > doing so in person. If you decide that you=92re > > capable > > of having a conversation that doesn=92t entail more > > grandstanding and insults or baiting, do something > > constructive about it. > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to email the media directly about the vote > > audit using this resource: > > http://got-voice.blogspot.com > > >=20 --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:35:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen In-Reply-To: <20041117165600.67233.qmail@web81101.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 08:56 AM 11/17/2004, amy king wrote: >Minky was gleeful in posting >something the other night in her attempt to utilize >this list and ask some poets to come together to >display some sort of support in the name of poetry =AD >simple as that. And let's not forget what (I think) precipitated Minky's proposal: the=20 irruption of all that "troll" language, and the defamation of a list-member= =20 by html-proxy, which I'll always remember as a new low. It may be that we=20 poets have a lot to learn from the information technology sector=20 --especially me, who doesn't even know what IA stands for.* But the=20 vindictive tactics that seem to prevail on IT=20 message-boards/yahoo/craigslist etc. make it difficult to learn anything at= =20 all. *Please don't take this as an invitation to explain IA to me, as I am too=20 busy strumming on my Lyre LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:35:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: professions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 >=20 > The only collective unconscious that is plausible is Lacan's symbolic > order. All the rest are simply wishful thinking. the only constructive e-commerce that is punishable is labelle's systematic odor. all the re-set arse implies is washful thanksgiving. --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:24:46 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Murder in the Mosque: Shooting Angers Muslims Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Murder in the Mosque: Shooting Angers Muslims: Bush Claims Divine Right to Kill the Helpless: Cheney Asks: "What's the Big Deal? The Geneva Conventions are Outmoded; The Economic Superiority of the West Excludes Us from Having to Comply: American Consumers Openly Gleeful: By WALDO PUNKASS U.S. Commander in Iraq Calls Shooting Part Of 'America's Genuine Rules Of Engagement': Rumsfeld Says Shooting of Wounded Iraqi, 'Nothing For Muslims To Get Their Panties In A Bunch About': Bush Jokes: "Can You Spell 'P.O.W.'? Yes, pow-pow-pow-pow-pow! The fucker's dead.": Overwhelming Firepower Does Not Suggest Adherence To Rule Of Law Army Lawyers Say: Hadley Insists, "We Are Culture Sensitive. Fuck, It's One Less Iraqi Standing Between Cheney And His Oil. Big Deal." By PHONEY D. SHADISTIC They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:28:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: quote assistance? Comments: To: derek beaulieu In-Reply-To: <018501c4ca8b$92d69da0$0d70cecd@housepress> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 14-Nov-04, at 12:50 PM, derek beaulieu wrote: > Hi folks; > I am currently transcribing the 1963 Vancouver poetry conference > (consisting of lectures by Creeley, Duncan, Olson, Ginsberg, Levertov, > Avison, Whalen) - and part of the process for me is confirming and > locating all references to poets, poetics and lines of specific poems > referred to in the lectures. I picture that the final manuscript will > have a reference for every person, book and quote referred to directly > or indirectly throughout the lectures. So far the process is going > very well. I am building on work done by a series of scholars on this > conference, most specifically Aaron Vidaver, Ralph Maud, Shelley Wong, > George Butterick and Charles Watts - building on work that has been > attempted in the past in order to create a manuscript which accurately > transcribes and annotates all of the extant 13 lectures (roughly 20 > hours of tape recorded by Fred Wah & currently online at > www.slought.net ) into a single manuscript. I am currently working on > the 10th lecture. > > That said - I have been trying to locate the following references > (below) gathered from each of the 10 lectures I have transcribed which > have proved somewhat elusive to date, and I am hoping that some of you > might be able to suggest where they might be located. The > transcriptions below may not be exactly correct as I am working from > audio tapes, but of course I would like to confirm them as being > accurate. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated and acknowledged > of course. > > Thank you very much for your help and assistance. > Sincerely > derek > > derek beaulieu > 101, 728 - 3rd ave nw > calgary alberta > canada t2n 0j1 > derek@housepress.ca > > > *** > > Duncan: "we have come so far that all the old stories whisper once > more" > > Williams: "they hid the two men who have been unable to realize their > wishes" > > Olson: "i come back to the geography of it" Isnt this in "Letter 27"? > > Olson: "Your speech will discriminate my body" > > Olson: "i have in this sense that i am one with my skin" "Letter 27"? > > Avison: "if we're here / lets be here now" > > HD: "was there ever anything other than the sand, the edge of the sea > and the stars?" > > wordsworth: "language is not the address but the incarnation of > thought" > > olson: "I am the seraphim of Gloucester standing I am" (maximus - but > where?) > > Olson: "beware of the seed..." > > Duncan: "take care by the throat and throttle it" > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:15:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: quote assistance? In-Reply-To: <3F3B754A-386A-11D9-A743-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The initial Duncan if I mistake not is from Poem Beginning with a Line from Pindar, in Opening of the Field. But all of my books are in storage (again!), so I can't check for you. Likewise the3 Olson, which are indeed from Maximus, but I don't remember if George is spot on aas to which poem therein. But a read-through of Maximus if you have the time would seem in any case de rigueur. Mark At 11:28 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: >On 14-Nov-04, at 12:50 PM, derek beaulieu wrote: > >>Hi folks; >> I am currently transcribing the 1963 Vancouver poetry conference >>(consisting of lectures by Creeley, Duncan, Olson, Ginsberg, Levertov, >>Avison, Whalen) - and part of the process for me is confirming and >>locating all references to poets, poetics and lines of specific poems >>referred to in the lectures. I picture that the final manuscript will >>have a reference for every person, book and quote referred to directly >>or indirectly throughout the lectures. So far the process is going >>very well. I am building on work done by a series of scholars on this >>conference, most specifically Aaron Vidaver, Ralph Maud, Shelley Wong, >>George Butterick and Charles Watts - building on work that has been >>attempted in the past in order to create a manuscript which accurately >>transcribes and annotates all of the extant 13 lectures (roughly 20 >>hours of tape recorded by Fred Wah & currently online at >>www.slought.net ) into a single manuscript. I am currently working on >>the 10th lecture. >> >>That said - I have been trying to locate the following references >>(below) gathered from each of the 10 lectures I have transcribed which >>have proved somewhat elusive to date, and I am hoping that some of you >>might be able to suggest where they might be located. The >>transcriptions below may not be exactly correct as I am working from >>audio tapes, but of course I would like to confirm them as being >>accurate. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated and acknowledged >>of course. >> >>Thank you very much for your help and assistance. >>Sincerely >>derek >> >>derek beaulieu >>101, 728 - 3rd ave nw >>calgary alberta >>canada t2n 0j1 >>derek@housepress.ca >> >> >>*** >> >>Duncan: "we have come so far that all the old stories whisper once >>more" >> >>Williams: "they hid the two men who have been unable to realize their >>wishes" >> >>Olson: "i come back to the geography of it" > >Isnt this in "Letter 27"? >> >>Olson: "Your speech will discriminate my body" >> >>Olson: "i have in this sense that i am one with my skin" > >"Letter 27"? >> >>Avison: "if we're here / lets be here now" >> >>HD: "was there ever anything other than the sand, the edge of the sea >>and the stars?" >> >>wordsworth: "language is not the address but the incarnation of >>thought" >> >>olson: "I am the seraphim of Gloucester standing I am" (maximus - but >>where?) >> >>Olson: "beware of the seed..." >> >>Duncan: "take care by the throat and throttle it" >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:18:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Craig, Ray" Subject: Found Poems: Pockets Dumb Fat and Jadakiss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Found Poem: Pockets Dumb Fat I said I like yo shit & u used 2 fuck with my nigga JT tha Bigga Figga? = He said yeah & I said u know me=20 & C-Bo got problems with 50 Cent. He said, That's y'all business, I'm = not in that, I'm just signed 2 tha=20 nigga 2 make some money. I said, I respect that, get cha paper on! = Then he said, what's up with Bang Em=20 Smurf & Domination dissin him? I said, I haven't heard it yet & keep it = that way. I shook his hand again &=20 told him, do ya thang cuzz we need 2 bring the west back. * * Found Poems: Jadakiss If I lose my voice, Nigga, I'ma flow online. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:39:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Daniel Charles Thomas Subject: Re: trolls and fragments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii M E S O - N A R C O the earth is a great crocodile monster alligator America between the waters there is no northwest passage no fabulous straight of Anian through these carnivorous jaws & teeth no hyperspace warp beyond our dark speed of light years kiss of rain or volcano breath . Ruined cities testify fall winter conquest bloody colonial intervention - y tu, que metes - metiche it has all been stolen raped and robbed already murdered in a hailstorm of gunfire AK-47 rams' horns sounding outside that drug war Maya disco where terror is born your mother's name - si es un desmadre nothing you can do but go away . tijuanagringo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:43:51 -0500 Reply-To: jamie@gaughran-perez.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Gaughran-Perez Subject: Re: Watten & Fearing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit URL? Stephen Vincent wrote: >I just wanted to say I like what Barry Watten (on his blog) is doing in >dialog with the quotes from the poetry of Kenneth Fearing. The interweaving >of both languages- compelling the so called 'past' into the present - >strikes me as a fruitful, intimate un-distancing work of the elders, >particular in this case to the work of Fearing where the presence of his >work and political engagement in the Depression - have been so obscured. (I >remember when I had Momo's Press - sometime in the very early eighties - >getting a call from his son who, I believe, lived in Portland. He was trying >desperately to get his father's work back into print. Sadly now, little help >was I). > >Barry, I believe, in taking Fearing off the critical fringes of dismissal >(thank you my communist hating New Critic/Agragarian steeped mentors!) > is providing a way to re-engage Fearing's language on its own terms, >putting its particulars back on the page, making them resonate with Barry's, >and letting that relationship conjure up potentially fresh interpretations. > >In this obviously harrowing time (in which multiple issues are back on >'their' table) - for any of us at least two degrees left of center - I think >this up front dialog (conversation) with our forbears (obscure or not) is >compelling, vitally necessary, and a refreshing departure from familiar >critical discourse. > >I look forward to more by Barry and others. > >Stephen V >Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:03:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Roommate sought, Chelsea, NYC Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Beautiful Chelsea apartment, parquet floors, terrace, eat-in kitchen, Empire State Building views, front and back yards, cable tv. Available Jan. 1, beyond affordable rent. Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-2664 as ever, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:06:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: midnight in new york, poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Leaf, treeless For Bertolt Brecht What times are these when a conversation is almost a crime because it includes so much made explicit? Paul Celan Tr. Michael Hamburger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:10:31 +0900 Reply-To: hnicoll@mac.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Nicoll Subject: Re: Watten & Fearing Comments: To: jamie@gaughran-perez.com, Jamie Gaughran-Perez In-Reply-To: <419C1A77.1090208@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Blue State: Reading the Election with Kenneth Fearing," On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:43:51 -0500 Jamie Gaughran-Perez wrote: >URL? -- Hugh Nicoll office tel: 81(0)985-20-4788 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:22:26 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: trolls and fragments -- ab natlingum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amy! After I stopped laughing at your latest post I thought, Oh my god, I wonder if she'd be interested in being my biographer! I mean, I don't have to do very much at all and you paint me into this colorful outlaw! When you come to Philly we'll argue and smoke and drink martinis and get the hell to work on you writing a fabulous book about me! Oh! More than ANYthing I'd love for you to spend a whole chapter on that bank robbery I didn't do! But I talk about doing it all the time, so that counts, doesn't it? Thanks so much Amy, you're the best! Sincerely, Schoolmaster Conrad p.s. should I bring photos of old boyfriends or what? I'm not sure how this biography thing goes. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:48:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Hymnalayas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Highland Hymnal #00001 hawksrow opportunities hawksrow opportunities mount ruapehu volcano =20 angeschwollenes_bei_katzen_ohrvereitertes rappers sexy downloads angeschwollenes_bei_katzen_ohrvereitertes rappers sexy downloads the temple of elemental evil cheat =20 direct + marketing 9 ball play pool direct + marketing 9 ball play pool annette funicello official site =20 plessey sa comcrypt 4000 fotonex 4000 sl plessey sa comcrypt 4000 fotonex 4000 sl brand_post-it =20 visa 4060000000000000..4060999999999999 black lesbians pics visa 4060000000000000..4060999999999999 black lesbians pics rrabbit rescue =20 data recovery furniture importer teak data recovery furniture importer teak play games =20 "central product classification" maserati coupe review "central product classification" maserati coupe review morgan webb nude pics =20 commercial mortgage loan rate your professor commercial mortgage loan rate your professor rappers sexy downloads =20 contact 003-01-24p5 contact 003-01-24p5 free paper model =20 doom3 dugtape how to make love doom3 dugtape how to make love biodiversity green roof =20 mick luter lolitas bbs post mick luter lolitas bbs post jaret benson =20 pulsmesser visa 4060000000000000..4060999999999999 pulsmesser visa 4060000000000000..4060999999999999 painter marcelino herranz =20 loofhuttenfeest free xxx pictures loofhuttenfeest free xxx pictures attorney =20 microscan 710 manual icone santi microscan 710 manual icone santi canadian drinking and driving laws =20 fender headstock decals vintage hairstyles fender headstock decals vintage hairstyles montserrat woodcut =20 overture+monitor+five+bid overture+monitor+five+bid overture+monitor+five+bid overture+monitor+five+bid inspirational quotes the visual work of August Highland is at the www.august-highland.com online studio the literary work of August Highland is at the www.litob.com project center all media projects of August Highland are at the www.cultureanimal.com global headquarters the international literary journal, the MAG, published by August = Highland is at the www.muse-apprentice-guild.com website where submissions = guidelines for poetry and fiction and deadline information can be found --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.797 / Virus Database: 541 - Release Date: 11/15/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:56:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Highland Hymnal #00002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HYMNALAYAS =20 Highland Hymnal #00002 gta san andreas cheats and walkthroughs fond gta san andreas cheats and walkthroughs fond illinois funeral services =20 redhat hosting custom build computer jobs pa redhat hosting custom build computer jobs pa downloads kazaa =20 girl's who wear wicked weasel russian nobles exiles switzerland 1918 girl's who wear wicked weasel russian nobles exiles switzerland 1918 diferencias entre kerry y bush =20 restraunt furniture manufactures canada free+dead+aim+download restraunt furniture manufactures canada free+dead+aim+download microscan esp =20 virtuagay user name password pipex virtuagay user name password pipex female ejaculation =20 gurps: near future walkers crisps gurps: near future walkers crisps "swordfish" + "xiphias" + "procures and spends calories" =20 write tempur-pedic write tempur-pedic wedding favors seashell* =20 playstation game cheats plessey sa comcrypt 4000 playstation game cheats plessey sa comcrypt 4000 discipleship gospel of luke the visual work of August Highland is at the www.august-highland.com online studio the literary work of August Highland is at the www.litob.com project center all media projects of August Highland are at the www.cultureanimal.com global headquarters the international literary journal, the MAG, published by August = Highland is at the www.muse-apprentice-guild.com website where submissions = guidelines for poetry and fiction and deadline information can be found --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.797 / Virus Database: 541 - Release Date: 11/15/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:49:54 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wake up ol' man hard on fuck life fuck death 3:00.....le mot.... rollin'.....drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:29:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: trolls and fragments -- ad naseum- add more nauseum museum & a gaul stone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey when do i get to read in philadelphia shit then on to maryland me and a bunch of ugly ducks then onto wash and dry i'm ready i tell ya i'm ready found poem found in my drawer where it belongs g-d knows when i wrote it probably when i was very young (HINT) let's argue the stars for beloved minky let's talk the sweet and sour lingo of well we all know c.a. loves to dis he did it to me when i hit this list in april or so dis and dat so it goes MUSIC? what's that? my second post will explain but before i say anything zankel hall gig stank stunk big time tonight cept for feldman piece it had to be one of the worse concerts i've ever heard/seen those folks should think about it stop com[posing stop making films it's alot like alot of the mooshmosh poetry goin around these days n.y. is full of it bad stuff robbed from the net and from newspapers sure we all steal bits of text and speech here and there cut it all up our own way but where's the HEART the HEART there's a cold hole in there instead my second post will have that pome (based on feldman piece) from tonight but now onto that found- in -draw -and -that's -where- it- belongs pome shit i was prominantly featured in that chinese post-beat anthology aH WELL THAT'S THE STORY of my life >>>>>>>><<<<<< started when i was 19 or maybe 20 that fkin anthology voices of(from) brooklyn anyone ever wanna hear about it just ask me and not sol yurick if he's still alive i'm sure he'd have no memory of it oh yeh shit onto that fond fund fun fondue pome maybe i'll dream a watertower & when climbing to it's top i'll fall into a big green sea maybe i'll dream of ice cream & while it melts i'll close my eyes maybe i'll dream of television & rocks & in a struggle one will break the other (stones-walls) maybe i'll dream of walls as my head & face press up against one clouds appear maybe i'll dream of you & me as they enter we will disappear ( as we entered) b.(comes after a.) her face @ the window looked familiar tho i knew like in all dreams i had never seen her before her hands her hair seemed so personal tho as she approached i knew it was a only dream she was cold distant & the car turned 'round in 90 degree jerks with the graffito of whiteness gone will freedom become a dream? 3. maybe i'll dream 2 bananas with the chiquita brand & as i press them against my ears my lips will form a perfect "O" upon a sheet of dark blue velvet folds their yellow arches move to form a heart y. one day lord shiva while walking thru the hills met a woman worshipping a dead cobra he waved her aside & w/ his magic brought the cobra back to life from that day on the people worshipped live cobras maybe when i lay me down to sleep tonight i'll count live cobras then maybe i'll dream about dead sheep. dalachinsky nyc shit i just added that ending it really sucks ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:48:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: midnight in new york, poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for minky w/ love de kooning ( morton feldman - 1963 ) tis form an empty sell/out these chairs from rumbling a morph created & why hang tix over the foreground when no film's presented only thin flim & a counter top immersed in standing a shallow shadow not unlike a window that shows the theme red - hem this count that reminds one of choice of mistake of the renegade shot in the head well he's dead now you say as my leg's start moving away from me these bodies they are so vicious & fragmented surely they cannot all be his women (this is what the silence tells me) & of all the things i could tell you now only this: it is not as song appears it is only the time between spaces. steve dalachinsky nyc carnegie hall - zankel hall 11/17/04 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:44:25 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: more midnights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the poet of this meant to write "variable" or maybe "viable" - but this shows a sensitivty and talent in language an I was "pulled up" by it. I like the: 'bells on dusty sidewalks' and 'I have built hells of (variable) material' Interesting all of it. Interesting to see more from Ian. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian VanHeusen" To: Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: more midnights > The point of telling midnight well > I have built hells of vaible material & spilled > bells on dusty sidewalks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 06:32:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: TONIGHT (11/18, 7:00) - Ravi Shankar reads at Wintonbury Library in Bloomfield MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wintonbury Branch Poetry Series=20 featuring Ravi Shankar Thursday, November 18th, 2004, 7:00 pm (Open Mike follows Featured Poet) 1015 Blue Hills Avenue Bloomfield, CT 06002 860-242-0041 *************** Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:46:11 -0500 Reply-To: Michael Bogue Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Bogue Subject: N+7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thot this might be of interest to Oulipians http://godsrudewireless.co.uk/n7/index.htm m. -- "Not I, but the city, teaches." - Socrates ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:32:03 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: A New GAPe Cut For Global Textile Trade Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/index.html A New GAPe Cut For Global Textile Trade: India Appeals To Neighbors To Join New Cheap Labor Confederacy: Kissinger/ China & Associates Likely to Dominate as Quotas Expire: Plans For Afghan Hip-Hugger Jeans Scrapped For More CIA Sponsored Poppy Cultivation By PECKER GOODWRETCH and PALL BLOODVERSTEHEN They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:26:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: NAJ.One: Destroy Babylon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NAJ.One: Since appearing throughout that continental United States on last Summer's Total Libeartion Tour. FoeKnawledge [aka Foekus], has officially changed his name to "Naj.One" reflecting his Islamic name "Harun Najwan Askari." http://www.najone.com/ Bruh NAJ.One: Full length: Destroy Babylon NAJ.ONe P.O. Box 3992 SCL, UT 84110 USA ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:31:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: [razapress] Raza Educators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NOVEMBER 2004 BULLETIN Association of Raza Educators (ARE) For Democratic Schooling, Critical Pedagogy, and Community Power. FIRST MEETING OF THE YEAR ARE held its first meeting of the school year (2004-05) on Oct., 2004. The meeting was held at Memorial Academy (Jr. High School). The meeting was chaired by Ernesto Bustillos. He gave a brief history and objectives of ARE. After the introduction, we held several round table discussions in regard to future work of ARE. Several proposals and ideas were suggested and will be considered at future meetings. PROPOSALS OR IDEAS FOR FUTURE WORK Ideas for future work of ARE was discussed. Among the ideas proposed included: •To hold round table discussions on important issues (No Child Left Behind Act, the elimination of Bilingual Education and Multicultural Studies, Administration Dictatorships, etc.). •To provide reading and discussion materials to enhance the knowledge of members. •Produce a monthly ARE bulletin (information will come from meetings; it would be simple one page bulletin). •Members could take turns and make brief presentations (20 mins) on a pre-approved topic (good teaching method, report on a community organization, how to deal with other staff at your school site, how to protect yourself from administrators, info on new legislation, Raza Studies, etc.). •To demonstrate moral/professional support for members (if they are being harassed by administration we could send letters of support, etc.). •To advocate for the community •Members in good standing could receive certificate/plaque to place in classroom, office, or home. •Meetings and other ARE activities could be used as professional growth, for resume or portfolio. AD-HOC MESA DIRECTIVA ELECTED A temporary mesa directiva was chosen to lead ARE until formal elections to be held before Christmas/Winter Break. They are: Silvia Duran, Secretary/Treasurer. She will be responsible for taking minutes of meetings. Sending minutes (via -e-mail to members and have copies ready for following meeting. Remind people of meetings (calls, snail mail, or e-mail). Produce monthly Bulletin Esther Martinez-Wise, Organization/Recruitment. She will be responsible for developing list of potential members with phone numbers/e-mail addresses, etc. She will also be responsible for logistics of meetings (location, setup, etc.). Ernesto Bustillos, Coordinator. He will chairs meetings. Will do Administrative tasks: follow-ups, makes sure all tasks are being done, etc. He will also represent ARE with other groups MAIN TOPIC/AGENDA ITEM FOR NEXT MEETING Silvia Duran will examine the No Child Left Behind Act and lead a discussion. Meeting will be held at Memorial Academy, Room 507, November 17, 4 PM. ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:34:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: professions In-Reply-To: <20041117183544.8A2B513F1B@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed what is labelle's systematic odor? who is Labelle? why resort to adolescent themes of smell? btw, what I mean by this is that there is NO "political unconscious". word to Marxists! -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, furniture_ press wrote: >> >> The only collective unconscious that is plausible is Lacan's symbolic >> order. All the rest are simply wishful thinking. > > the only constructive e-commerce that is punishable is labelle's systematic > odor. all the re-set arse implies is washful thanksgiving. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:35:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: quote assistance? In-Reply-To: <3F3B754A-386A-11D9-A743-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed is this project destined for a book? a website? it sounds very exciting. robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, George Bowering wrote: > On 14-Nov-04, at 12:50 PM, derek beaulieu wrote: > >> Hi folks; >> I am currently transcribing the 1963 Vancouver poetry conference >> (consisting of lectures by Creeley, Duncan, Olson, Ginsberg, Levertov, >> Avison, Whalen) - and part of the process for me is confirming and >> locating all references to poets, poetics and lines of specific poems >> referred to in the lectures. I picture that the final manuscript will >> have a reference for every person, book and quote referred to directly >> or indirectly throughout the lectures. So far the process is going >> very well. I am building on work done by a series of scholars on this >> conference, most specifically Aaron Vidaver, Ralph Maud, Shelley Wong, >> George Butterick and Charles Watts - building on work that has been >> attempted in the past in order to create a manuscript which accurately >> transcribes and annotates all of the extant 13 lectures (roughly 20 >> hours of tape recorded by Fred Wah & currently online at >> www.slought.net ) into a single manuscript. I am currently working on >> the 10th lecture. >> >> That said - I have been trying to locate the following references >> (below) gathered from each of the 10 lectures I have transcribed which >> have proved somewhat elusive to date, and I am hoping that some of you >> might be able to suggest where they might be located. The >> transcriptions below may not be exactly correct as I am working from >> audio tapes, but of course I would like to confirm them as being >> accurate. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated and acknowledged >> of course. >> >> Thank you very much for your help and assistance. >> Sincerely >> derek >> >> derek beaulieu >> 101, 728 - 3rd ave nw >> calgary alberta >> canada t2n 0j1 >> derek@housepress.ca >> >> >> *** >> >> Duncan: "we have come so far that all the old stories whisper once >> more" >> >> Williams: "they hid the two men who have been unable to realize their >> wishes" >> >> Olson: "i come back to the geography of it" > > Isnt this in "Letter 27"? >> >> Olson: "Your speech will discriminate my body" >> >> Olson: "i have in this sense that i am one with my skin" > > "Letter 27"? >> >> Avison: "if we're here / lets be here now" >> >> HD: "was there ever anything other than the sand, the edge of the sea >> and the stars?" >> >> wordsworth: "language is not the address but the incarnation of >> thought" >> >> olson: "I am the seraphim of Gloucester standing I am" (maximus - but >> where?) >> >> Olson: "beware of the seed..." >> >> Duncan: "take care by the throat and throttle it" >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:59:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: Askenase & Mandel at the BPC, NYC, 11/20 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" NOVEMBER 20 ALICIA ASKENASE and TOM MANDEL Alicia Askenase is the author of the chapbooks The Luxury of Pathos (Texture Press) and most recently, Shirley Shirley (sona books). Her poetry has appeared in such journals as The World, Kiosk, 6ix, Feminist Studies, Rooms, Chain, 5_Trope, and sonaweb, as well as the anthologies 100 Days and 25 Women's Perspectives. Her work will also appear in a forthcoming PhillySound anthology. Tom Mandel's many books include Realism, 4 Strange Books and The Prospect of Release. "Realism is one of the most extraordinary collections of poetry to have come my way during my lifetime." -Harry Mathews AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB Fall / Winter 2004 http://www.bowerypoetry.com/ 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM $5 admission goes to support the readers -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:04:58 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I am doing a show at St. Mark's on Fri. Dec. 3 at 10:30 pm I am reading my homolinguistic translation of the Sefer Yetzirah (from the recently released "The House That Hijack Built" (Talonbooks, 2004) I will be collaborating with Drew Gardner on keyboards Daniel Carter on Sax and Alan Semerdjian on Bass Also, there will be slide and video projections of the text in both Hebrew and English by Blaine Spiegel AND FREE WINE AND FOOD!! It should be a great nite. Hope u can come! www.adeenakarasick.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:13:31 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: vernon, bbbbbbaby MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I posted this poem and comment awhile ago at another group and thought you might enjoy it. Too lazy to edit much. Too much alliteration. I think the quote is from 'Memory Babe.' to b or not to b be-bop babe benzedrine barbiturates booze banefully bi-sexual biographical bathos bi-polar buddhist balding belligerent ball-less brutally beautifully banal botched mj Jack Kerouac set out to be the best American writer that ever lived, but he didn't know how to live. Instead he filled his life with excessive friends and experiences - like a Pollack painting, a frenzy. He was forever traumatized by the childhood death of his brother Gerard who said that dying and going to heaven was the best thing ever. When Jack innocently and joyfully announced Gerard's death to his family, they were horrified, and so it began. His life became a morality play of this very philosophical paradox. "His final point - is to suggest that life completely perceived is poetry, is art, and needs no labor of pen, brush, or anything else to make it so: 'Of course there's someplace to go! Go mind your own business.' Again Kerouac affirms the nobility of silence; it is more honest than talk, and the only cure for vanity. But since he failed to keep that silence himself at a point where it was called for - his life going farther out of kilter even as his art approached an ideal serenity - there is nothing more for him to say but 'Forget it, wifey. Go to sleep. Tomorrow's another day." Mary ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:21:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adeena: Yours is a beautifully designed site, a pleasure to look at. A little long in the download, but worth the wait. Best, Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adeena Karasick" To: Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:04 PM Subject: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 > Hi all, > I am doing a show at St. Mark's on Fri. Dec. 3 at 10:30 pm > I am reading my homolinguistic translation of the Sefer Yetzirah (from the > recently released "The House That Hijack Built" (Talonbooks, 2004) > > I will be collaborating with Drew Gardner on keyboards > Daniel Carter on Sax and > Alan Semerdjian on Bass > > Also, there will be slide and video projections of the text in both Hebrew > and English by Blaine Spiegel > > AND FREE WINE AND FOOD!! > > It should be a great nite. > Hope u can come! > > > www.adeenakarasick.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:31:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 11/19-12/1 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Friday, November 19, 10:30 pm =B3Lovely Ladies=B2 with Reg E Gaines Two-time Tony nominee, playwright, Nuyorican Grand Slam Champion, and poet Reg E Gaines celebrates the publication of his latest book, 2 b Blk & Wrt, with a poetry and audio performance with the band Hush Project (featuring Calvin Gaines, Matana Roberts, and Mark Wilson) and special guests Sophia Capatorto-Weiss, Marcella Goheen, Justina Mejias, and Aileen Reyes. =20 Monday, November 22, 8 pm Joyelle McSweeney & Tony Tost Joyelle McSweeney=B9s first book, The Red Bird, was chosen by Allen Grossman to inaugurate the Fence Modern Poets Series and was published by Fence Books/Saturnalia Books in 2002. Her second, The Commandrine and Other Poems= , is due out this fall from Fence. Her poems have appeared in ACM, The Boston Review, Typo, The Canary, Monkey Puzzle, and elsewhere, and she is a staff critic for The Constant Critic. She is a member of the MFA faculty at the University of Alabama, and lives in Tuscaloosa. Tony Tost is the author of Invisible Bride, winner of the 2003 Walt Whitman Award. He lives in Chapel Hill, North Carolina and co-edits Octopus, an on-line magazine (http://www.octopusmagazine.com). HAPPY THANKSGIVING=8BNO WED. READING Monday, November 29, 8 pm Talk Series: Katy Lederer, =B3The Heaven-Sent Leaf=B2 A talk about the relationship between artists and money from both historica= l and contemporary perspectives. How have current artistic attitudes about money developed over time? Are they rational or irrational, critical or reactionary? In what ways can artists thoughtfully engage with a contemporary milieu=8Bin which the pursuit of money is axiomatic of so much else, from the pursuit of happiness to the pursuit of war=8Bwithout merely mirroring or balking at its assumptions? Katy Lederer is a poet and memoirist now living in New York. An avid critic and reviewer, she was the editor of The Poetry Project Newsletter from 1999-2000. Wednesday, December 1, 8 pm Heather Fuller & Eileen Tabios Heather Fuller=B9s Startle Response is forthcoming from O Books. She is also the author of perhaps this is a rescue fantasy and Dovecote (both from Edge Books). Originally from North Carolina, she lived and worked in and around DC for 12 years before relocating to Baltimore. Eileen Tabios=B9 recent books are Reproductions of the Empty Flagpole and Menage =E0 Trois with the 21st Century. I Take The, English, For My Beloved is forthcoming in 2005. Her awards include the Philippines=B9 National Book Award for Poetry, the Potrero Nuevo Fund Prize, and the PEN/Oakland Josephine Miles National Literary Award. Read her blog at http://chatelaine-poet.blogspot.com. The FALL CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:50:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Majzels Subject: Announcement: APIKOROS SLEUTH by Robert Majzels Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Announcing APIKOROS SLEUTH a novel by Robert Majzels "... if a man could write a book on Ethics which really was a book on=20 Ethics, this book would, with an explosion, destroy all the other books=20= in the world." - Ludwig Wittgenstein APIKOROS SLEUTH is a murder mystery in the form of a Talmudic inquiry.=20= In an unlikely and extraordinary combination of genres the author=20 weaves together over the surface of each page a breath-taking whodunit,=20= a poetic exploration of the limits of language, and a philosophical=20 inquiry on the terrain of ethics, issues of life, death, guilt and=20 community. Before we were narrative, we were boots and vertigo. We leapt across a=20= canyon of traffic. We flung ourselves into the net of language. A horse=20= was an inch of music. Dogs danced, wings gathered rock. Now we are the=20= small brown pigtail of a mystery trailing behind its solution. We pour=20= murder out of a tenement and lay the limp and soggy rag of story in the=20= street. Robert Majzels is the author of a full-length play This Night the Kapo,=20= produced by Teatron Theatre, Toronto, Canada, 2004, and two novels,=20 Hellman's Scrapbook (Cormorant Books, 1992), and City of Forgetting=20 (Mercury Press, Toronto, Canada, 1997). He has also translated several=20= novels by France Daigle, short stories by Anne Dandurand and, with Erin=20= Mour=E9, two books of poetry by Nicole Brossard. Robert Majzels lives in=20= Quebec, Canada. APIKOROS SLEUTH by Robert Majzels The Mercury Press, Toronto, Canada ISBN: 1-55128-105-8 Online distribution: http://www.nwpassages.com To request review, desk or media copies contact The Mercury Press:=20 contact@themercurypress.ca. You are invited to join Robert Majzels and Rachel Zolf in celebrating=20 the publication of his novel, APIKOROS SLEUTH and her book of poems=20 MASQUE. Place: Caf=E9 Montmartre, 4362 Main St., Vancouver, British Columbia,=20 hosted by Sharon Thesen Time: Saturday, November 20, 7-9 PM OR Place: McNally Robinson Bookstore, 120 8th Ave. SW, Calgary, Alberta,=20 hosted by Jason Christie Time: Monday, November 22, 7 PM OR Place: University of Alberta, L-3 Humanities Centre, University of=20 Alberta, Hosted by Douglas Barbour Time: Tuesday, November 23, 2 PM OR Place: Double Hook Book Shop (1235A Greene Ave, Montreal, Qu=E9bec, = Canada Time: Tuesday, November 30, 6-8:30PM =09 OR Place: Cobalt (426 College St., Toronto). Time: Thursday, December 2, 7-10PM. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:09:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: help with a quote In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, here's one for you: wasn't it Gertrude Stein who said "It's better to lose and win than win and lose" or something like that? anyone have the exact wording and citation? Please backchannel, or forechannel, if you want to show how smart you are. thanks, DH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:27:52 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/18/2004 5:22:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, weishaus@PDX.EDU writes: > Adeena: > > Yours is a beautifully designed site, a pleasure to look at. A little long > in the download, but worth the wait. > > Best, > Joel > Thanks so much! It's always great to get feedback Warmly, Adeena ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:07:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: help with 'the win' quote In-Reply-To: <20041118175637.GA75225@mail15a.boca15-verio.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Well, David, says I, showing off (perhaps mistakenly) your Google Volunteer of the week is pleased to offer the winning passage with the real quote. I take it -the quote - to be an ironic view of the growing power of the wife in a marriage from which there be no exit. It's after school, I will take my prize in cookies and milk. What, you did not offer a prize? I guess I am on my way to becoming a real winner. Adios, Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com From Three Lives: The Good Anna: Part Two: The Life of the Good Anna by Gertrude Stein ...In friendship, power always has its downward curve. One's strength to manage rises always higher until there comes a time one does not win, and though one may not really lose, still from the time that victory is not sure, one's power slowly ceases to be strong. It is only in a close tie such as marriage, that influence can mount and grow always stronger with the years and never meet with a decline. It can only happen so when there is no way to escape. > OK, here's one for you: > > wasn't it Gertrude Stein who said > > "It's better to lose and win than win and lose" > > or something like that? anyone have the exact > wording and citation? > > Please backchannel, or forechannel, if you want to > show how smart you are. > > thanks, > > DH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:24:24 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit so i'm thinkin' this pome these pomes it's not like buiding a house it's like tearing down a house dark early....muse lay down..drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:52:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: help with 'the win' quote In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit steve thanks. I'm not exactly sure this is what I was looking for but this helps. I could swear there was a quote very similar to the one I quoted but it may have been in her long long essay on english literature... not sure. also it may have been yogi berra or casey stengel or something like that. if anyone else has suggestions please let me know. milk and cookies on me. DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 4:08 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: help with 'the win' quote Well, David, says I, showing off (perhaps mistakenly) your Google Volunteer of the week is pleased to offer the winning passage with the real quote. I take it -the quote - to be an ironic view of the growing power of the wife in a marriage from which there be no exit. It's after school, I will take my prize in cookies and milk. What, you did not offer a prize? I guess I am on my way to becoming a real winner. Adios, Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com >From Three Lives: The Good Anna: Part Two: The Life of the Good Anna by Gertrude Stein ...In friendship, power always has its downward curve. One's strength to manage rises always higher until there comes a time one does not win, and though one may not really lose, still from the time that victory is not sure, one's power slowly ceases to be strong. It is only in a close tie such as marriage, that influence can mount and grow always stronger with the years and never meet with a decline. It can only happen so when there is no way to escape. > OK, here's one for you: > > wasn't it Gertrude Stein who said > > "It's better to lose and win than win and lose" > > or something like that? anyone have the exact wording and citation? > > Please backchannel, or forechannel, if you want to show how smart you > are. > > thanks, > > DH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:31:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Fw: Pictures and Words of Hope MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable interesting MR http://sorryeverybody.com/gallery/1/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:00:03 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Bradshaw Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 In-Reply-To: <1f8.2846747.2ece768a@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Even tho Daniel Carter is one of the few improvisors who make it a respectable form, I'm always suspicious of poetry readings that involve saxophones. But never the phonemes of medieval Jewish mystical texts. So hmmm. I might just well be your mother saying"Oh Bethany, I heard of this really neat poetry that you'll really enjoy >From: Adeena Karasick >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:04:58 EST > >Hi all, >I am doing a show at St. Mark's on Fri. Dec. 3 at 10:30 pm >I am reading my homolinguistic translation of the Sefer Yetzirah (from the >recently released "The House That Hijack Built" (Talonbooks, 2004) > >I will be collaborating with Drew Gardner on keyboards >Daniel Carter on Sax and >Alan Semerdjian on Bass > >Also, there will be slide and video projections of the text in both Hebrew >and English by Blaine Spiegel > > AND FREE WINE AND FOOD!! > >It should be a great nite. >Hope u can come! > > >www.adeenakarasick.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:19:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JERRY Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adeena's show at this year's Vision Fest (w/ Tod Nicholson) seemed to attest as much to HER ability to improvise... it should be an ample give and take with all assembled for the gig.Wishing I could be there. --Gerald Schwartz > Even tho Daniel Carter is one of the few improvisors who make it a > respectable form, I'm always suspicious of poetry readings that involve > saxophones. But never the phonemes of medieval Jewish mystical texts. > > So hmmm. I might just well be your mother saying"Oh Bethany, I heard of this > really neat poetry that you'll really enjoy > > > > > >From: Adeena Karasick > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 > >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:04:58 EST > > > >Hi all, > >I am doing a show at St. Mark's on Fri. Dec. 3 at 10:30 pm > >I am reading my homolinguistic translation of the Sefer Yetzirah (from the > >recently released "The House That Hijack Built" (Talonbooks, 2004) > > > >I will be collaborating with Drew Gardner on keyboards > >Daniel Carter on Sax and > >Alan Semerdjian on Bass > > > >Also, there will be slide and video projections of the text in both Hebrew > >and English by Blaine Spiegel > > > > AND FREE WINE AND FOOD!! > > > >It should be a great nite. > >Hope u can come! > > > > > >www.adeenakarasick.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 04:46:04 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Bradshaw Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 In-Reply-To: <001a01c4cdff$b18a4540$1f7da918@rochester.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed And I wish I could be there as well. The remarks from me below were intended for a friend in NY I was attempting to forward the reading announcement to, but I accidentally sent it back to the list; sorry about that. Not trying to cause misunderstandings. Not right now anyway. For the record, though, I am a fan of Adeena Karasick's books, but still weary of mixing sax w/ voiced page. But if she's an improvisor in her own right, as Mr. Jerry claims, then it's a different territory.... >From: JERRY >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:19:12 -0800 > >Adeena's show at this year's Vision Fest (w/ Tod Nicholson) seemed to >attest >as much to HER ability to improvise... it should be an ample give and take >with all assembled for the gig.Wishing I could be there. > >--Gerald Schwartz > > > Even tho Daniel Carter is one of the few improvisors who make it a > > respectable form, I'm always suspicious of poetry readings that involve > > saxophones. But never the phonemes of medieval Jewish mystical texts. > > > > So hmmm. I might just well be your mother saying"Oh Bethany, I heard of >this > > really neat poetry that you'll really enjoy > > > > > > > > > > >From: Adeena Karasick > > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 > > >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:04:58 EST > > > > > >Hi all, > > >I am doing a show at St. Mark's on Fri. Dec. 3 at 10:30 pm > > >I am reading my homolinguistic translation of the Sefer Yetzirah (from >the > > >recently released "The House That Hijack Built" (Talonbooks, 2004) > > > > > >I will be collaborating with Drew Gardner on keyboards > > >Daniel Carter on Sax and > > >Alan Semerdjian on Bass > > > > > >Also, there will be slide and video projections of the text in both >Hebrew > > >and English by Blaine Spiegel > > > > > > AND FREE WINE AND FOOD!! > > > > > >It should be a great nite. > > >Hope u can come! > > > > > > > > >www.adeenakarasick.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:27:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: help with 'the win' quote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thats a diff steve not me ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:52:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3- sax oh phony shit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this is really sad have you ever read with a sax player? well i have they can be too loud and get in the way because they are like another voice or like daniel joe mcphee many others i've read with be an equal voice . suspicious of what? what are you suspicious of? or is that just a figure of speech Music and poetry as a combo? just sax and voice what? you've hit a nerve there my boy you sound like you know daniel and his work so you should be aware of how respectful he can be if he needs too or is asked to i read with him on two occasions where he was too damned respectful and on other occassions where i had to scream or keep quiet but that's the chaNCE YOU TAKE WHEN COMING to the gig cold and if you don't speak up before the gig beginsa try kerouac and zoot sims al cohn and try my cd w/daniel and sabir and other saxophonists when it works with sax or other musicians it's heaven and like i said when it fails it fails miserably tho most won't admit that. and when one learns after awhile to compensate vocally w/ a good sound system or hearty voice ( and i'm not talking performance here ) well anything goes and come down to bpc tues the 23rd and hear a bunch of us read with amram ok it ain't no sax but hey french horns flutes etc miraculous the way he accompanies the words as all great musicians do when they realize the voice speaking is like the voice singing leider if they play as i term it below the level of hearing or on a par or listen w/give and take wow what else can i say wow tho i will agree w/one thing sax can be the hardest if the player plays too loud ah i'm rambling good night all and what doe you mean daniel is one of the few improvisers who make it a respectable form ? i really resent that ... i can name you shit without exaggeration 50 or more w/out even trying maybe 100 maybe.......ach who are you anyhow? who do you listen to musically or poetically? ach ach ach that's why these musicians struggle even sometimes more than poets do to get by ach achhh achhhhhhhhhhhhh this has been an improvised message from achhhhhhhhh ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:17:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Currently at http://www.asondheim.org/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Currently at http://www.asondheim.org/ Index of / Name Last modified Size __________________________________________________________________________ [DIR] Parent Directory 16-Nov-2004 - [TXT] 0.README.txt 1k [TXT] 00README1st.TXT 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textscan2.png 4k [IMG] textscan3.png 5k [IMG] textscan4.png 5k [IMG] textscan5.png 4k [IMG] textscan6.png 5k [IMG] textscan7.png 1k [IMG] theargumentsofar.png 384k [IMG] theory1.jpg 315k [IMG] theory2.jpg 270k [IMG] theory3.jpg 295k [IMG] theory4.jpg 286k [IMG] theory5.jpg 293k [IMG] theory6.jpg 240k [IMG] theory7.jpg 228k [IMG] theory8.jpg 227k [ ] torn.MP4 1.7M [IMG] torso.jpg 178k [IMG] torso0.jpg 159k [IMG] torso1.jpg 169k [IMG] torso2.jpg 152k [IMG] tub2.jpg 160k [IMG] tub5.jpg 187k [IMG] tub6.jpg 188k [IMG] tub7.jpg 295k [IMG] tub8.jpg 221k [IMG] twirple.png 9k [ ] tz.exe 184k [TXT] u.txt 24k [ ] umb.exe 64k [ ] umb2.exe 68k [ ] victor.exe 96k [ ] void.exe 484k [ ] wall.exe 56k [ ] wallvoid.exe 180k [SND] warnngsample.mp3 7.4M [IMG] wave1.jpg 175k [IMG] wave10.jpg 172k [IMG] wave11.jpg 123k [IMG] wave12.jpg 225k [IMG] wave13.jpg 120k [IMG] wave15.jpg 308k [IMG] wave17.jpg 433k [IMG] wave18.jpg 232k [IMG] wave19.jpg 212k [IMG] wave2.jpg 298k [IMG] wave20.jpg 205k [IMG] wave21.jpg 453k [IMG] wave22.jpg 391k [IMG] wave23.jpg 430k [IMG] wave25.jpg 225k [IMG] wave26.jpg 229k [IMG] wave27.jpg 232k [IMG] wave3.jpg 298k [IMG] wave31.jpg 247k [IMG] wave4.jpg 217k [IMG] wave5.jpg 254k [IMG] wave6.jpg 200k [IMG] wave7.jpg 73k [IMG] wave8.jpg 136k [IMG] wave9.jpg 251k [ ] weather.exe 852k [ ] web.exe 152k [IMG] western.png 21k [IMG] western2.png 54k [ ] word.exe 20k [ ] word2.exe 212k [IMG] worlda.png 8k [IMG] worldb.png 8k [TXT] writing2.txt 35k [VID] wtc.mov 11.9M [ ] wump.mp4 1.4M [VID] zthrumb.avi 32.2M [TXT] zz.txt 81k _________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:39:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** Boog NYC Series Needs One Last Non-NY Press ** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi all, I'm still looking to add one more non-NY small press for Thurs. Feb. 3 to our d.a. levy lives series. Below is my post from a short time ago, which tells you a bit about the series. You can email me to editor@boogcity.com if you are interested in having your press take part or know of a press you think I should pursue. as ever, david --------- Hi all, The first year of our non-NY Small Press series--d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press--has gone real well. We were honored to present readings from: Meritage Press (San Francisco/St. Helena, Calif.), The Owl Press (Woodacre, Calif.) Avec Books (Penngrove, Calif.) CyPress (Cincinnati, Ohio) above/ground press (Ottawa, Canada) Chax Press (Tucson, Arizona) Carve (Boston) Braincase Press (Northampton, Mass.) Combo (Providence, Rhode Island) Talon Books (Vancouver, British Columbia) The readings are on the first Thursday of each month at ACA Galleries at 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. (bet. 10th and 11th avenues) at 6:00 p.m., and usually feature contributors from a press reading for 20-30 minutes and a musical act performing for 15-20 minutes, a break, and then 20-30 minutes more of readings and 15-20 minutes more of music. The gallery operators are amazing folk and connected to the poetry community in that they're the son-in-law and daughter of the poet Simon Perchik. They provide wine and other beverages, cheese, and fruit for each reading, too. Oh yeah, no door either. I'm booking our second season now. The rest of 2004 we'll have events from Conundrum (Chicago), Ambit (Baltimore), a 30th anniversary celebration for Kelsey Street Press (Berkeley, Calif.), and The Poker (Boston). We still need a press for Thurs. Feb. 3. If you are interested, please backchannel me to editor@boogcity.com thanks, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 02:25:52 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit late for the funeral xteeple chasin' thru bklyn 'washed & dressed according to the rituals of his people" apres ke bobs the winter garden's plasticked up electronics & furs pomegranites & costly berries lox by the chunk blini by the lb closer to the light closer to the dark all depend whether you're standing on sea or shore... 2:00....guilt by the oz.... sand by & by........drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:57:22 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adeena - your site is indeed beautiful and you have some fascintating work there. Hope your event goes well. As to reading with musicians I have done so and often its a shambles - for me the word/the voice is better by itself...but if I was in NY I would go. ( I have to go by subway or taxi). But NZ is a bit far !! Actually I read my own stuff at the Nuyorican and couple of other places in 1993. The scene is certainly full on over there. Mind you I was drunk every night for about 2 1/2 weeks - NY blew me away and to read I used to drink heavily.... drn to use Harry's mantra...drnnn....drnn...drn..... Nowadays I stay clear of readings ..... danger points for me......long story but - Blesed are those who can control their drinking. Used to think of them as "wowsers". (NZ term of contempt for non drinkers) .... Extra - What is a "homo linguistic translation" - a "same langauge translation" reading? Is Sefir an Israeli - that means you are translating from Hebrew? You should also read your own work - I feel - lol. Thoughts of an old dry brain......drn (sorry Harry!) Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adeena Karasick" To: Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 > Hi all, > I am doing a show at St. Mark's on Fri. Dec. 3 at 10:30 pm > I am reading my homolinguistic translation of the Sefer Yetzirah (from the > recently released "The House That Hijack Built" (Talonbooks, 2004) > > I will be collaborating with Drew Gardner on keyboards > Daniel Carter on Sax and > Alan Semerdjian on Bass > > Also, there will be slide and video projections of the text in both Hebrew > and English by Blaine Spiegel > > AND FREE WINE AND FOOD!! > > It should be a great nite. > Hope u can come! > > > www.adeenakarasick.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 04:22:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Army of Scum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 12 seconds (from "World War Web") UTC/GMT is 19:22:00 on Thursday, November 18, 2004=20 looking for "Thorn".)=3Dgsave setcmykcolor rise of nations = cheats Photo Quality Glossy you are ordering two or jnew unique copy = should(The answerto choose) R/F B Games Mode Options: rotate for = which the computed fiF . - . 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Version: 6.0.798 / Virus Database: 542 - Release Date: 11/18/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 04:26:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Shamans and Shemans / Poets and Potheads MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 5 seconds from "World War Web" UTC/GMT is 21:04:01 on Thursday, November 18, 2004=20 warm in here he said Duckhound Rubba Duck Xw(ref)p idiv def; = GFp(E) b(of)g(eac)m(h)i(ro)m(w)fof Computing,( ). CFFA FBE = Fm(D) Fv(=3D)g Fw([)q Fm(A)p Ff(;clientslimited f afff Adapter or = Travel /quotesingle specifications. Flowers and Leis Online what was at = hand. Cingular, T mobile, r225m. Features: High Enlarge) This is the = index index rmoveto E(w) . 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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.798 / Virus Database: 542 - Release Date: 11/18/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 08:01:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3- sax oh phony shit In-Reply-To: <20041119.001041.-68795.4.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Steve. As you know, and a few others on the list know, I read poetry with bands that included saxophones for many years. When the saxophonist is riding with your words instead of taking his own solo without regard for them, it's a beautiful experience. The instrument twines around your words, filling your breath spaces with a sympathetic, twining texture. I lead a poetry band for 5 years in which I played bass, and a duet with saxophonist-flutist Thomas Chapin. The two saxophonists were right there, in synch with what I was doing. Tom, in particular, could read my mind, or close to it. One saxophonist I used only a few times needed to be taught that continually playing 8-measure 16th note phrases kept me from getting the words of the poem into the performance; a saxophonist has to play in a way that lets you breathe. A lot of poetry read with music just doesn't work; either the musicians aren't listening to the poet, or the poet doesn't have the rhythmic sense that enables him to interact with the musicians. I always felt mine worked best when I played bass in the band; from the bass chair I could control the tempos, and keep the band moving in the direction I wanted it to move. A poet who doesn't play in the band has a harder time of it; he needs to direct the musicians or find musicians who are in synch with him---as Steve says, a musician who recognizes the voice is another instrument in the band. Steve knows what he's talking about; he recites with a musician's timing. It's something I do as well. Reciting with music lifts my recitation to another level. The textures fill up the space I leave on the page, create a sense of "being in the world" instead of a solo voice trying to levitate the audience on its own steam. The music supplies the power one person alone can't, and give the recitation a backup that makes it more powerful, when done properly. A reading of the Kabbalah with sensitive musicians could be a very powerful experience. There's my 2 cents. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 11:53 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3- sax oh phony shit this is really sad have you ever read with a sax player? well i have they can be too loud and get in the way because they are like another voice or like daniel joe mcphee many others i've read with be an equal voice . suspicious of what? what are you suspicious of? or is that just a figure of speech Music and poetry as a combo? just sax and voice what? you've hit a nerve there my boy you sound like you know daniel and his work so you should be aware of how respectful he can be if he needs too or is asked to i read with him on two occasions where he was too damned respectful and on other occassions where i had to scream or keep quiet but that's the chaNCE YOU TAKE WHEN COMING to the gig cold and if you don't speak up before the gig beginsa try kerouac and zoot sims al cohn and try my cd w/daniel and sabir and other saxophonists when it works with sax or other musicians it's heaven and like i said when it fails it fails miserably tho most won't admit that. and when one learns after awhile to compensate vocally w/ a good sound system or hearty voice ( and i'm not talking performance here ) well anything goes and come down to bpc tues the 23rd and hear a bunch of us read with amram ok it ain't no sax but hey french horns flutes etc miraculous the way he accompanies the words as all great musicians do when they realize the voice speaking is like the voice singing leider if they play as i term it below the level of hearing or on a par or listen w/give and take wow what else can i say wow tho i will agree w/one thing sax can be the hardest if the player plays too loud ah i'm rambling good night all and what doe you mean daniel is one of the few improvisers who make it a respectable form ? i really resent that ... i can name you shit without exaggeration 50 or more w/out even trying maybe 100 maybe.......ach who are you anyhow? who do you listen to musically or poetically? ach ach ach that's why these musicians struggle even sometimes more than poets do to get by ach achhh achhhhhhhhhhhhh this has been an improvised message from achhhhhhhhh ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 08:00:38 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/19/2004 6:00:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > What is a "homo linguistic translation" - a "same language > translation" reading? Is Sefir an Israeli - that means you are translating > from Hebrew? > You should also read your own work - I feel - lol. > Well, thanks everyone for your feedback. As most of you know, i don't usually read > with musicians but i feel for this particular project (working with and > against a variety of languages, histories, ethnic and religious codes) and given > there will also be visual projections of the text itself, adding the > provocative mix of non-language based sound might add an interesting element... > > As per what "is" a homolinguistic translation" or more appropriately a > "homophonic" translation" -- it's a translation into the "same" (homo) language. > So, it questions or problematizes the notion of "translation" -- > acknowledging that language itself is never pure; that a translation is always already > moving through and across or between languages, cultures, codes... oh heck, here's a more complete explanation, exploration of my agenda... xo Sefer Yetzirah: The Book of Creation Homolinguistc Trans'elation I can take squashes and pumpkins, and with the Sefer Yetzirah, make them into beautiful trees. (Rabbi Yehoshua ben Chananya, 1st C.) The Sefer Yetzirah (Book of Creation also known as Book of the Letters) is the "oldest and most mysterious" of all Kabbalistic texts and dates back to 100 BCE. Originally transmitted in Aramaic as an Oral Teaching, was transcribed and bound into a Hebrew text, translated into German, Italian and eventually English. Today, it exists in fragments, residues - a network of echoes, traces of versions layered upon versions that point to the ghostly remnants of an inaccessible / impossible origin. This homo(r)phonic trans-elation of the first chapter moves through and across an intra-lingual, cultural and geo-poetic terrain, and through a process of `homage and parricide', attempts to pay allegiance to this cryptic history. The focus of the Sefer Yetzirah is on the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet (how they were formed, how they inter-relate, how they make meaning). The text itself is inscribed through slippage, elision, rupture and undecidability, and language is foregrounded as "a continuum of letters", names, mathematical equations, gates of meaning. One of the reasons I chose this text was that I find it fascinating how the Sefer Yetzirah, as a religious doctrine, is lodged firmly in a metaphysical tradition - yet with its focus on letters, language, on meaning production, the "meta" (beyond) becomes an linguistic space, an intervening space, a place of syncretism, juxtaposition and integration. Through this translative praxis, I was interested in carving out ways in which this text could be dislodged from a socio-religious and historically-limiting hermeneutic (not mired within an onto-theologically insulated discourse validated by transcendency), but rather could be reviewed as a polyglossic textual arena without specific meaning and heterogenous to all hermeneutic totalization. Thus, through a process of recombination and permutation of letters, sounds, rhythms, textures, this translation (or "transluc-nacion") enacts (or puts into play) a Kabbalistic hermeneutic whereby there is an audible reverberation of the various languages, histories, codes - that enfold into each other, caress each other, speak to each other. By a slight displacement by slipping one word in beneath another, it seems to mimic Nietzche's Geschichte eines Irrtum (History of an Error) announcing the narration of a fabrication: "how the true world finally becomes a fable" - a fabrication that produces precisely, nothing other than the idea of a true world - which risks hijacking the supposed truth of the narration. For this translation, i used the Gra Version (which in its totality contains 6 chapters and consists of about 1800 words). i have aimed to maintain all orthographic accoutrement of the original text: line spacing, capitalization, commas, periods and quotation marks. In the beginning there was repetition, reproduction. translation. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 08:12:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: vernon, bbbbbbaby In-Reply-To: <83.1aea41df.2ece788b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mary Jo Thanks for sending this. "to be or not to b" says a lot that's true of the Kerouac we know through the biographies. I don't have Memory Babe down here & haven't read it since it came out. Out of context, the quote seems a little harsh. Kerouac lived a life whose extreme contradictions tore him apart, very true. But Kerouac's hardly the first writer to say life is an art & then to write about it instead of live it. Henry Miller did it all the time. No matter what they say, though, writers are writers and they live the "art" of their lives as writers, not as everyday people. Vernon http://vernofrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 5:14 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: vernon, bbbbbbaby I posted this poem and comment awhile ago at another group and thought you might enjoy it. Too lazy to edit much. Too much alliteration. I think the quote is from 'Memory Babe.' to b or not to b be-bop babe benzedrine barbiturates booze banefully bi-sexual biographical bathos bi-polar buddhist balding belligerent ball-less brutally beautifully banal botched mj Jack Kerouac set out to be the best American writer that ever lived, but he didn't know how to live. Instead he filled his life with excessive friends and experiences - like a Pollack painting, a frenzy. He was forever traumatized by the childhood death of his brother Gerard who said that dying and going to heaven was the best thing ever. When Jack innocently and joyfully announced Gerard's death to his family, they were horrified, and so it began. His life became a morality play of this very philosophical paradox. "His final point - is to suggest that life completely perceived is poetry, is art, and needs no labor of pen, brush, or anything else to make it so: 'Of course there's someplace to go! Go mind your own business.' Again Kerouac affirms the nobility of silence; it is more honest than talk, and the only cure for vanity. But since he failed to keep that silence himself at a point where it was called for - his life going farther out of kilter even as his art approached an ideal serenity - there is nothing more for him to say but 'Forget it, wifey. Go to sleep. Tomorrow's another day." Mary ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:55:11 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: My sister sent me this.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It should be widely circulated: http://static.vidvote.com/movies/bushuncensored.mov _________________________________ Richard Jeffrey Newman Associate Professor, English Chair, International Education Committee Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu www.ncc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:50:20 -0500 Reply-To: ronhenry@clarityconnect.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Henry Subject: Re: My sister sent me this.... In-Reply-To: <-1219479423978586221@unknownmsgid> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:55:11 -0500, Richard Jeffrey Newman wrote: > It should be widely circulated: > > http://static.vidvote.com/movies/bushuncensored.mov FYI: The original source article on Salon.com gives additional context: Watch Bush's "one-fingered victory salute" Back when he was Texas governor, the president sassed Karen Hughes big time, and the cameras caught him. Oct. 27, 2004 | You heard him call New York Times reporter Adam Clymer a "major league asshole" back during the 2000 campaign. Now watch President Bush -- back when he was Texas governor -- salute loyal advisor Karen Hughes on video, with his middle finger. You can watch the video here . Salon obtained the video from Texans for Truth, an Austin-based advocacy group that's kept the heat on Bush about his missing time in the Texas Air National Guard. Texans for Truth is also hosting the video on its site. According to the group's sources, the segment was part of a video session shot while Bush was governor. The clip shows him smoothing his hair for the camera, complaining about an off-camera aide believed to be Hughes. "She's still tellin' me what to do," he says, before he flashes his middle finger. As worried aides murmur about whether the camera's running, Bush dismisses his gesture as a "one-fingered victory salute." There's nothing wrong with a little playful obscenity among friends, but our preacher in chief has worked hard to hide the smirking frat boy within. The video isn't likely to energize the evangelical base the White House cares about most. -- Ron Henry http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:12:58 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: knew nothing about new MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable miss mary fancy pants come one come all to the quarky ball laughing skeletons pickin up stones to clone the bones=20 on this floating cemetery in time and space don't despise small beginnings that bang stand up and let those neutrinos shoot right through you scottie to bones she's rippin apart man she won=E2=80=99t hold and jezebel says dere's music in deez ol bones yet let the frosting melt in mac arthur park the recipe's not lost in the water and air in the dust in the dark carry be back to ol virginy out through the orifice i skinny the rest in dross on that ol rugged cross can deoxyribonucleic acid dream in the dead cat box or islands in the stream what i feel about what i know i'll never not be nothing ever again i phone home call me i'm already there smiling about something mary jo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:29:23 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: re saxophone/poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone heard Joy Harjo use her saxophone as part of her reading performance? Beautiful soundings. Especially with her native american accompanists on drums and more. Don't know whether she has recordings, or on line, but likely. Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:46:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: re saxophone/poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Certainly, she has recordings for sale at www.joyharjo.com. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Mandel" To: Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: re saxophone/poems > Has anyone heard Joy Harjo use her saxophone as part of her reading > performance? Beautiful soundings. Especially with her native american accompanists on > drums and more. Don't know whether she has recordings, or on line, but > likely. > Charlotte > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:05:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: "poetry and playing" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed This is the title of a recording (on Paratactile records) by Derek Bailey (guitarist) playing and reciting the poetry of Lyn Hejinian, Peter Riley and yes Steve Dalachinsky. A little different than a duet situation with poet and reed player. I really like Steve's piece in that and the way Derek deals with it. Bailey's playing/reading is pretty interesting and i like what he's doing. Any more of that out there? Or recordings by other artists anyone could recommend? (Steve Lacey's work Irene Aebi (his wife) was great, to name one other player whom i've heard who makes it respectably.) konrad ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:58:34 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 In-Reply-To: <80.1b14e26b.2ecf4876@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Compliments for this work, Adeena, and have a great reading, Anny On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 08:00:38 EST, Adeena Karasick wrote: > In a message dated 11/19/2004 6:00:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, > richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > > > What is a "homo linguistic translation" - a "same language > > translation" reading? Is Sefir an Israeli - that means you are translating > > from Hebrew? > > You should also read your own work - I feel - lol. > > > > Well, thanks everyone for your feedback. As most of you know, i don't usually > read > > with musicians but i feel for this particular project (working with and > > against a variety of languages, histories, ethnic and religious codes) and given > > there will also be visual projections of the text itself, adding the > > provocative mix of non-language based sound might add an interesting element... > > > > As per what "is" a homolinguistic translation" or more appropriately a > > "homophonic" translation" -- it's a translation into the "same" (homo) language. > > So, it questions or problematizes the notion of "translation" -- > > acknowledging that language itself is never pure; that a translation is always already > > moving through and across or between languages, cultures, codes... > oh heck, here's a more complete explanation, exploration of my agenda... xo > > Sefer Yetzirah: The Book of Creation > Homolinguistc Trans'elation > > I can take squashes and pumpkins, > and with the Sefer Yetzirah, make them into > beautiful trees. (Rabbi Yehoshua ben Chananya, 1st C.) > > The Sefer Yetzirah (Book of Creation also known as Book of the Letters) is > the "oldest and most mysterious" of all Kabbalistic texts and dates back to 100 > BCE. Originally transmitted in Aramaic as an Oral Teaching, was transcribed > and bound into a Hebrew text, translated into German, Italian and eventually > English. Today, it exists in fragments, residues - a network of echoes, traces > of versions layered upon versions that point to the ghostly remnants of an > inaccessible / impossible origin. This homo(r)phonic trans-elation of the first > chapter moves through and across an intra-lingual, cultural and geo-poetic > terrain, and through a process of `homage and parricide', attempts to pay > allegiance to this cryptic history. > > The focus of the Sefer Yetzirah is on the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet > (how they were formed, how they inter-relate, how they make meaning). The text > itself is inscribed through slippage, elision, rupture and undecidability, and > language is foregrounded as "a continuum of letters", names, mathematical > equations, gates of meaning. > > One of the reasons I chose this text was that I find it fascinating how the > Sefer Yetzirah, as a religious doctrine, is lodged firmly in a metaphysical > tradition - yet with its focus on letters, language, on meaning production, the > "meta" (beyond) becomes an linguistic space, an intervening space, a place of > syncretism, juxtaposition and integration. Through this translative praxis, I > was interested in carving out ways in which this text could be dislodged from > a socio-religious and historically-limiting hermeneutic (not mired within an > onto-theologically insulated discourse validated by transcendency), but rather > could be reviewed as a polyglossic textual arena without specific meaning and > heterogenous to all hermeneutic totalization. > > Thus, through a process of recombination and permutation of letters, sounds, > rhythms, textures, this translation (or "transluc-nacion") enacts (or puts > into play) a Kabbalistic hermeneutic whereby there is an audible reverberation of > the various languages, histories, codes - that enfold into each other, caress > each other, speak to each other. > > By a slight displacement by slipping one word in beneath another, it seems to > mimic Nietzche's Geschichte eines Irrtum (History of an Error) announcing the > narration of a fabrication: "how the true world finally becomes a fable" - a > fabrication that produces precisely, nothing other than the idea of a true > world - which risks hijacking the supposed truth of the narration. > > For this translation, i used the Gra Version (which in its totality contains > 6 chapters and consists of about 1800 words). i have aimed to maintain all > orthographic accoutrement of the original text: line spacing, capitalization, > commas, periods and quotation marks. > > In the beginning there was repetition, reproduction. translation. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:56:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Funding for Public Radio Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear friends and family: On NPR's Morning Edition, Nina Tottenberg said that if the Supreme Court supports Congress, it will, in effect, be the end of the National Public Radio (NPR), National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) &the Public Broadcasting System (PBS). PBS, NPR and the arts are facing major cutbacks in funding. In spite of the efforts of each station to reduce spending costs and streamline their services, some government officials believe that the funding currently going to these programs is too large a portion of funding for something which is seen as not worthwhile. This is for anyone who thinks NPR/PBS is a worthwhile expenditure of $1.12/year of their taxes. The only way that our representatives can be aware of the base of support for PBS and funding for these types of programs is by making our voices heard. Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends who believe in what this stands for. This list will be forwarded to the President and the Vice President of the United States. This petition is being passed around the Internet. Please add your name to it so that funding can be maintained for NPR, PBS, & the NEA. HOW TO SIGN & FORWARD: IT'S EASY: Please keep this petition rolling. Do not reply to me. Please sign and forward to others to sign. If you prefer not to sign, please send to the E-mail address indicated below. DON'T WORRY ABOUT DUPLICATES. This is being forwarded to several people at once to add their names to the petition. It won't matter if many people receive the same list as the names are being managed. This is for anyone who thinks NPR/PBS is a worthwhile expenditure of $1.12/year of their taxes. A petition follows. If you sign, please forward on to others. If not, please don't kill it. Send it to the Email address listed here: wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu If you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250t h, etc., signer of this petition, please forward a copy to the above address. This way we can keep track of the lists and organize them. Forward this to everyone you know, and help us to keep these programs alive. Thank you! NOTE: It is preferable that you SELECT (highlight) the entirety of this letter and then COPY it into a new outgoing message, rather than simply forwarding it. In your new outgoing message, add your name to the bottom of the list, then send it on. Judith Ruderman Vice Provost for Academic and Administrative Services 220 Allen, Box 90005, Duke University (919) 684-3296 (phone) (919) 684-4421 (fax) 1003) Mariann Youniss, MA 02054 1004) Andrew Youniss, MA 02054 1065) Barbara Sadownick, Brooklyn, NY 11234 1066) Betty Deutsch, Delray Beach, FL 33446 1067) Richard Deutsch, Delray Beach, FL 33446 1068) Hilda Reisman, Raleigh, NC 27615 1069) Arnold Reisman Raleigh, NC 27615 1070) Sidney S. Baron, Raleigh, NC 27615 1071) Greta S. Baron, Raleigh, NC 27615 1072) Shirley Cohen, Van Nuys, CA 91406 1073) Carole Seedman.Los Angeles, CA 90064 1074) Zoe Slyke, Los Angeles, CA 90041 1075) Bob Bloomfield, Rolling Hills Estates, CA 90274 1076) Bob Laxineta, Rancho Palos Verdes, CA 90275 1077) Joseph Green Rancho Palos Verdes, CA 90275 1078) Irene Nevil Los Angelels 90049 1079) Shawna V. Carboni, Portsmouth, NH 03801 1080) Natalie Hassold, Portsmouth, NH 03801 1081) Barbara Massar, Portsmouth, NH, 03801 1082) Mary L. Doyle, Dover, NH 03820 1083) Dorothy R. Kasik, Portsmouth, NH 03801 1084)Linda Powell, Kittery Point, ME 03905 1085) Caroline Alexander, Granite Bay, CA 95746 1086) William J. Furnas, Granite Bay, CA. 95746 1087) Pauline C Bazemore, Santa Barbara, CA 93105 1088 Bob Newcomb, Santa Barbara, CA 93105 1089 Erica Elliott, Santa Fe, NM 87507 1090 Jean Altshuler Santa Fe, NM 87506 1091 Zev Guber Montclair, NJ 07042 1092 Edgar Yu, Sparta NJ 07871 1093 Cynthia Gonzales, Sparta, NJ 07871 1094 Lenore Warren, Brooklyn NY 11209 1095 Judith Brink, Albany NY 12208 109! 6 Natasha Williams Stone Ridge NY 1097 Kenneth Kircher Stone Ridge NY 1098 Ben Shor, Cottekill, NY 12419 1099 Cora Shor, Cottekill, NY 12419 1100 Morton Shor, Somers NY 10589 1101 Judy Capurso Annapolis, 21401 1102 Jane Capurso Annapolis, MD 21401 1103 George Capurso Annapolis, MD 21401 1104 Devon Mikolas New York, New York 10304 1105 Peter Capurso 1106 Chi-Chi Lin, New York, NY 10463 1107 Erik Lars Bestmann, New York, NY 10463 1108 Leah Bestmann, Manhattan, KS 66502 1109 J.D. Thompson, Pahoa, HI 96778 1110 Geri Randall, Hilo, HI 96720 1111 Mark Mynhier, Vashon, WA 98070 1112 Laurelyn Mynhier, Vashon, WA 98070 1113 Theresa Roberts, Bothell, WA 1114) Geoffrey Patterson, Seattle, WA 1115) Ann Bradford, Seattle, WA 1116) Alice Conger Patterson, NC 27358 1117) Frannie Jacobus Saluda NC 28773 1118) Ellen Rogers, Saluda, NC 28773 1119) Elizabeth Fogarty, Hendersonville NC 28739 1120 Linda Brown, Hendersonville NC 28739 1121 Judith S Rogers, Hendersonville, NC 28792 1122 Jay L Rogers, Hendersonville, NC 28792 1123 Gayle Covey, Richmond, VA 23225 1124 Steven DeVico, Richmond, VA 23225 1125 Marion Donovan, Hendersonville, N. C.28739 1126 Sheila Creth, Iowa City, IA 52250 1127 Theodore Wheeler, Iowa City, IA 52240 1128 H. Lea Wells, Chapel Hill, NC 27514 1129 Peggy M Phelps, Kingston Springs, TN 37082 1130 Beverly Feinstein, Nashville, TN 37211 1131 Jan Marshall, Smyrna, TN 37167 1132 Donna Ray Anthony, Brentwood, TN 37027 1133 Kate Winter, Hermitage, TN 37076 1134 Attie Winter, Charlotte, NC 28277 1135 Saiza Elayda, Washington, DC 20016 1136 Simon Ertz, Hickory, NC 28601 1137 Jonathan Holden, MI 48910 1138 Christopher Kirkpatrick, MI 48854 1139 Wilton Elder, East Lansin! g, MI 48823 1140 Carrie Lombardi, Boulder, CO 80305 1141 Mandy M ortimer, Denver, CO 80220 1142 Anne Gillenwater, Denver, CO 80218 1143 Haley Nolde, San Francisco, CA 94123 1144 Marcia Vaughan, ABC, Irvine, CA ! 92604 1145 Deborah Globerson, ABC, Irvine, CA 92620 1146 Angelin a Lopez, Santa Ana, 92705 1147 Stacey Holt, Newport Beach, CA 92663 1148 Margaret Henke, Santa Ana, CA 92705 1149 Alfred Benoit, Anaheim, CA 92807 1150 Bharti Patel, Mission Viejo, Ca 92692 1151 Dubravka Zubovic,Laguna Hills,CA 92653 1152 Dejan Karaklajic, Beverly Hills, CA 90212 1153 Boris Gortinski, South Pasadena, CA 91030 1154 Zeljka Cvjetan Gortinski, South Pasadena, CA 91030 1155 Sarah Gallagher, New York, New York 10021 1156 Joyce Brotman, Beverly Hills, California 90210 1157 Robin I. Cushner, Owings Mills, Maryland 21117 1158 Mary Gutierrez, Baltimore, MD 21030 1159 Grady Gibson, Barnegat, NJ 08005 1160 Ruby Eddins, Humble, Texas 77346 1161 Cheerie Galik Bremond, TX 76629 1162 Claire Ellis Denver, CO! 80210 1163 Richard E. Ellis, Sr. Denver, CO 80210 1164 Susan Lewis, Aurora CO 80013 1165 Ralph Lewis, Aurora CO 80013 1166 Sue Muller, Aurora CO 80012 1167 Brandie Thompson, Westminster CO 80234 1168 Rave! n McClatchey, Newport Beach CA 92662 1169 Dana Braun, CA 92708 1170 Sharon Rawls, Highlands Ranch, CO 80129 1171 Joe Jenkins, Los Alamitos, CA 90720 1172 James Vogt, Bosham, UK PO18 8PX 1173 Janet Vogt, Bosham, UK PO18 8PX 1174 Fred Troxel, Sugarloaf Shores, FL 33042 1175 Lillian Van Hest, Sugarloaf Shores, Fl. 33042 1176 Wayne D. Van Hest, SugarLoaf Shores, Fl. 33042 1177 Robert M. Jacobs, Brookline, Mass. 02446 1178 Eugene P. Falco, Jamaica Plain MA 02130 1179 Kathryn Hotarek, New York, NY 10021 1180 Lisa Bradlow, Scarsdale, NY 10583 1181 Heather J. Lynham, MA 02719 1182 Todd Hedley Providence, RI 02904 1183 Zona Douthit, Newport, RI 02840 1184 Jeanne Scholz, Mill Valley, CA 94941 1185 Jill ! Dinwiddie, Charlotte, NC 28202 1186 Gloria Gibson, Charlotte, NC 28 226 1187 Sidney Lockaby, Charlotte, NC 28226 1188 Sally Billington, Charlotte NC 28207 1189 Jane Weaver-Sobel, Charlotte, NC &nbs! p;28226 1190 Sally Billington 1191 Mary Fanidi 1192 David Gockley 1193 Richard Brown, Houston, TX 77002 1194 Ken Tarasi, Pittsburgh, PA 15222 1195 Clinton Bennett, Pittsburgh, PA 1196 Sara Strahm, Takoma Park, MD 20912 1197 Diane Strahm, St. Joseph, MO 64507 1198 Anita Meehan, St. Joseph, MO 64506 1199 Dotty Woody, Homestead, FL 1200 Carol Kubie, La Mesa, CA 91941 1201 Rick Metz , Sealevel,NC 28577 1202 Bill Reed, Mars Hill, NC 28754 1203 Karen Reed, Mars Hill, NC 28754 1204 Mary Brumo, Marshall, N.C. 28753 1205 Gary Brumo, Marshall, N.C. 28753 1206 Vicki Skemp, Marshall, NC 28753 1207 John Skemp, Marshall, NC 28753 1208 Melanie Rice 1209 Andrew Barnhill 1210 Hart Barnhill 1211 Jim Taylor 1212 Sheila Kay Adams 1213 Amy Rabb 1214 Bettina Patterson 1215 Gabor, Pittsboro, NC 27312 1216 Arnold Gelderman, Pittsboro, NC 27312 1217 Carolyn Gelderman, Pittsboro, NC 27312 1218 Arthur S. Marks, Chapel Hill, NC 27514 1219 Judith L. Marks, Chapel Hill, NC 27514 1220 David Birnbaum, Chapel Hill 27514 1221 Linda Birnbaum, Chapel Hill 27514 1221 Judith Ruderman, Durham, NC 27705 1225 David Scott, Bethesda, MD 1226 Robert S. Kass, Ph.D. 1227 Susan S. Kass 1228 Mary Lou Wilson, Rochester, NY 1229 Denise LaRossa, Rochester, NY 14617 1330 Bob LaRossa, Rochester, NY 14617 1331 Hollis Garver, Rochester, NY 14617 1332 Thomas Garver, Rochester, NY 14617 1333 Sharon Morrison 1334 Paul Snyder, Westcliffe, CO 81252 1335 Richard C. McLean, Boulder, CO 80305 1336 Edith Stevens, Boulder, CO 80305 1337 Jane W. Greenfield, Boulder, CO 80306-4887 1338 Jenny Pettit, Loveland, CO 80537 1339 Tammy Lynn, Boulder, CO 80304 1340 Shawn Jeanquart-Wacholz, Wauwatosa, WI 53213 1341 Susan Lex, Milwaukee, WI 53211 1342 Jeff Lex, Milwaukee, WI 53211 1343 Penney Johns, Grafton, WI 53024 1344 Donna Grady, WI 53074 1345 Paul Grady,WI 53074 1346 Amy Szalkowski 53718 1347 Ted Szalkowski 53718 1348 Barbara Eckstein IA 52245 1349 Benjamin Basan IA 52245 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:05:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Re: Funding for Public Radio In-Reply-To: (Benjamin Basan's message of "Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:56:09 -0600") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Good idea to check snopes.com anytime anyone suggest you forward any email. It's almost certainly an urban legend. This one is a variant. http://www.snopes.com/politics/arts/nea.asp Benjamin Basan wrote: > Dear friends and family: > > On NPR's Morning Edition, Nina Tottenberg said that if the Supreme Court > supports Congress, it will, in effect, be the end of the National Public > Radio (NPR), National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) &the Public Broadcasting > System (PBS). PBS, NPR and the arts are facing major cutbacks in funding. In > spite of the efforts of each station to reduce spending costs and streamline > their services, some government officials believe that the funding currently > going to these programs is too large a portion of funding for something > which is seen as not worthwhile. This is for anyone who thinks NPR/PBS is a > worthwhile expenditure of $1.12/year of their taxes. The only way that our > representatives can be aware of the base of support for PBS and funding for > these types of programs is by making our voices heard. > > Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends who believe in > what this stands for. This list will be forwarded to the President and the > Vice President of the United States. This petition is being passed around > the Internet. Please add your name to it so that funding can be maintained > for NPR, PBS, & the NEA. > > HOW TO SIGN & FORWARD: IT'S EASY: Please keep this petition rolling. Do > not reply to me. Please sign and forward to others to sign. If you prefer > not to sign, please send to the E-mail address indicated below. > > DON'T WORRY ABOUT DUPLICATES. This is being forwarded to several people at > once to add their names to the petition. It won't matter if many people > receive the same list as the names are being managed. This is for anyone who > thinks NPR/PBS is a worthwhile expenditure of $1.12/year of their taxes. A > petition follows. > > If you sign, please forward on to others. If not, please don't kill it. > Send it to the Email address listed here: wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu > > If you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250t h, etc., signer of this > petition, please forward a copy to the above address. This way we can keep > track of the lists and organize them. Forward this to everyone you know, and > help us to keep these programs alive. > > Thank you! > > NOTE: It is preferable that you SELECT (highlight) the entirety of this > letter and then COPY it into a new outgoing message, rather than simply > forwarding it. In your new outgoing message, add your name to the bottom of > the list, then send it on. > > Judith Ruderman > Vice Provost for Academic and Administrative Services > 220 Allen, Box 90005, Duke University > (919) 684-3296 (phone) (919) 684-4421 (fax) > > 1003) Mariann Youniss, MA 02054 > 1004) Andrew Youniss, MA 02054 > 1065) Barbara Sadownick, Brooklyn, NY 11234 > 1066) Betty Deutsch, Delray Beach, FL 33446 > 1067) Richard Deutsch, Delray Beach, FL 33446 > 1068) Hilda Reisman, Raleigh, NC 27615 > 1069) Arnold Reisman Raleigh, NC 27615 > 1070) Sidney S. Baron, Raleigh, NC 27615 > 1071) Greta S. Baron, Raleigh, NC 27615 > 1072) Shirley Cohen, Van Nuys, CA 91406 > 1073) Carole Seedman.Los Angeles, CA 90064 > 1074) Zoe Slyke, Los Angeles, CA 90041 > 1075) Bob Bloomfield, Rolling Hills Estates, CA 90274 > 1076) Bob Laxineta, Rancho Palos Verdes, CA 90275 > 1077) Joseph Green Rancho Palos Verdes, CA 90275 > 1078) Irene Nevil Los Angelels 90049 > 1079) Shawna V. Carboni, Portsmouth, NH 03801 > 1080) Natalie Hassold, Portsmouth, NH 03801 > 1081) Barbara Massar, Portsmouth, NH, 03801 > 1082) Mary L. Doyle, Dover, NH 03820 > 1083) Dorothy R. Kasik, Portsmouth, NH 03801 > 1084)Linda Powell, Kittery Point, ME 03905 > 1085) Caroline Alexander, Granite Bay, CA 95746 > 1086) William J. Furnas, Granite Bay, CA. 95746 > 1087) Pauline C Bazemore, Santa Barbara, CA 93105 > 1088 Bob Newcomb, Santa Barbara, CA 93105 > 1089 Erica Elliott, Santa Fe, NM 87507 > 1090 Jean Altshuler Santa Fe, NM 87506 > 1091 Zev Guber Montclair, NJ 07042 > 1092 Edgar Yu, Sparta NJ 07871 > 1093 Cynthia Gonzales, Sparta, NJ 07871 > 1094 Lenore Warren, Brooklyn NY 11209 > 1095 Judith Brink, Albany NY 12208 > 109! 6 Natasha Williams Stone Ridge NY > 1097 Kenneth Kircher Stone Ridge NY > 1098 Ben Shor, Cottekill, NY 12419 > 1099 Cora Shor, Cottekill, NY 12419 > 1100 Morton Shor, Somers NY 10589 > 1101 Judy Capurso Annapolis, 21401 > 1102 Jane Capurso Annapolis, MD 21401 > 1103 George Capurso Annapolis, MD 21401 > 1104 Devon Mikolas New York, New York 10304 > 1105 Peter Capurso > 1106 Chi-Chi Lin, New York, NY 10463 > 1107 Erik Lars Bestmann, New York, NY 10463 > 1108 Leah Bestmann, Manhattan, KS 66502 > 1109 J.D. Thompson, Pahoa, HI 96778 > 1110 Geri Randall, Hilo, HI 96720 > 1111 Mark Mynhier, Vashon, WA 98070 > 1112 Laurelyn Mynhier, Vashon, WA 98070 > 1113 Theresa Roberts, Bothell, WA > 1114) Geoffrey Patterson, Seattle, WA > 1115) Ann Bradford, Seattle, WA > 1116) Alice Conger Patterson, NC 27358 > 1117) Frannie Jacobus Saluda NC 28773 > 1118) Ellen Rogers, Saluda, NC 28773 > 1119) Elizabeth Fogarty, Hendersonville NC 28739 > 1120 Linda Brown, Hendersonville NC 28739 > 1121 Judith S Rogers, Hendersonville, NC 28792 > 1122 Jay L Rogers, Hendersonville, NC 28792 > 1123 Gayle Covey, Richmond, VA 23225 > 1124 Steven DeVico, Richmond, VA 23225 > 1125 Marion Donovan, Hendersonville, N. C.28739 > 1126 Sheila Creth, Iowa City, IA 52250 > 1127 Theodore Wheeler, Iowa City, IA 52240 > 1128 H. Lea Wells, Chapel Hill, NC 27514 > 1129 Peggy M Phelps, Kingston Springs, TN 37082 > 1130 Beverly Feinstein, Nashville, TN 37211 > 1131 Jan Marshall, Smyrna, TN 37167 > 1132 Donna Ray Anthony, Brentwood, TN 37027 > 1133 Kate Winter, Hermitage, TN 37076 > 1134 Attie Winter, Charlotte, NC 28277 > 1135 Saiza Elayda, Washington, DC 20016 > 1136 Simon Ertz, Hickory, NC 28601 > 1137 Jonathan Holden, MI 48910 > 1138 Christopher Kirkpatrick, MI 48854 > 1139 Wilton Elder, East Lansin! g, MI 48823 > 1140 Carrie Lombardi, Boulder, CO 80305 > 1141 Mandy M ortimer, Denver, CO 80220 > 1142 Anne Gillenwater, Denver, CO 80218 > 1143 Haley Nolde, San Francisco, CA 94123 > 1144 Marcia Vaughan, ABC, Irvine, CA ! 92604 > 1145 Deborah Globerson, ABC, Irvine, CA 92620 > 1146 Angelin a Lopez, Santa Ana, 92705 > 1147 Stacey Holt, Newport Beach, CA 92663 > 1148 Margaret Henke, Santa Ana, CA 92705 > 1149 Alfred Benoit, Anaheim, CA 92807 > 1150 Bharti Patel, Mission Viejo, Ca 92692 > 1151 Dubravka Zubovic,Laguna Hills,CA 92653 > 1152 Dejan Karaklajic, Beverly Hills, CA 90212 > 1153 Boris Gortinski, South Pasadena, CA 91030 > 1154 Zeljka Cvjetan Gortinski, South Pasadena, CA 91030 > 1155 Sarah Gallagher, New York, New York 10021 > 1156 Joyce Brotman, Beverly Hills, California 90210 > 1157 Robin I. Cushner, Owings Mills, Maryland 21117 > 1158 Mary Gutierrez, Baltimore, MD 21030 > 1159 Grady Gibson, Barnegat, NJ 08005 > 1160 Ruby Eddins, Humble, Texas 77346 > 1161 Cheerie Galik Bremond, TX 76629 > 1162 Claire Ellis Denver, CO! 80210 > 1163 Richard E. Ellis, Sr. Denver, CO 80210 > 1164 Susan Lewis, Aurora CO 80013 > 1165 Ralph Lewis, Aurora CO 80013 > 1166 Sue Muller, Aurora CO 80012 > 1167 Brandie Thompson, Westminster CO 80234 > 1168 Rave! n McClatchey, Newport Beach CA 92662 > 1169 Dana Braun, CA 92708 > 1170 Sharon Rawls, Highlands Ranch, CO 80129 > 1171 Joe Jenkins, Los Alamitos, CA 90720 > 1172 James Vogt, Bosham, UK PO18 8PX > 1173 Janet Vogt, Bosham, UK PO18 8PX > 1174 Fred Troxel, Sugarloaf Shores, FL 33042 > 1175 Lillian Van Hest, Sugarloaf Shores, Fl. 33042 > 1176 Wayne D. Van Hest, SugarLoaf Shores, Fl. 33042 > 1177 Robert M. Jacobs, Brookline, Mass. 02446 > 1178 Eugene P. Falco, Jamaica Plain MA 02130 > 1179 Kathryn Hotarek, New York, NY 10021 > 1180 Lisa Bradlow, Scarsdale, NY 10583 > 1181 Heather J. Lynham, MA 02719 > 1182 Todd Hedley Providence, RI 02904 > 1183 Zona Douthit, Newport, RI 02840 > 1184 Jeanne Scholz, Mill Valley, CA 94941 > 1185 Jill ! Dinwiddie, Charlotte, NC 28202 > 1186 Gloria Gibson, Charlotte, NC 28 226 > 1187 Sidney Lockaby, Charlotte, NC 28226 > 1188 Sally Billington, Charlotte NC 28207 > 1189 Jane Weaver-Sobel, Charlotte, NC &nbs! p;28226 > 1190 Sally Billington > 1191 Mary Fanidi > 1192 David Gockley > 1193 Richard Brown, Houston, TX 77002 > 1194 Ken Tarasi, Pittsburgh, PA 15222 > 1195 Clinton Bennett, Pittsburgh, PA > 1196 Sara Strahm, Takoma Park, MD 20912 > 1197 Diane Strahm, St. Joseph, MO 64507 > 1198 Anita Meehan, St. Joseph, MO 64506 > 1199 Dotty Woody, Homestead, FL > 1200 Carol Kubie, La Mesa, CA 91941 > 1201 Rick Metz , Sealevel,NC 28577 > 1202 Bill Reed, Mars Hill, NC 28754 > 1203 Karen Reed, Mars Hill, NC 28754 > 1204 Mary Brumo, Marshall, N.C. 28753 > 1205 Gary Brumo, Marshall, N.C. 28753 > 1206 Vicki Skemp, Marshall, NC 28753 > 1207 John Skemp, Marshall, NC 28753 > 1208 Melanie Rice > 1209 Andrew Barnhill > 1210 Hart Barnhill > 1211 Jim Taylor > 1212 Sheila Kay Adams > 1213 Amy Rabb > 1214 Bettina Patterson > 1215 Gabor, Pittsboro, NC 27312 > 1216 Arnold Gelderman, Pittsboro, NC 27312 > 1217 Carolyn Gelderman, Pittsboro, NC 27312 > 1218 Arthur S. Marks, Chapel Hill, NC 27514 > 1219 Judith L. Marks, Chapel Hill, NC 27514 > 1220 David Birnbaum, Chapel Hill 27514 > 1221 Linda Birnbaum, Chapel Hill 27514 > 1221 Judith Ruderman, Durham, NC 27705 > 1225 David Scott, Bethesda, MD > 1226 Robert S. Kass, Ph.D. > 1227 Susan S. Kass > 1228 Mary Lou Wilson, Rochester, NY > 1229 Denise LaRossa, Rochester, NY 14617 > 1330 Bob LaRossa, Rochester, NY 14617 > 1331 Hollis Garver, Rochester, NY 14617 > 1332 Thomas Garver, Rochester, NY 14617 > 1333 Sharon Morrison > 1334 Paul Snyder, Westcliffe, CO 81252 > 1335 Richard C. McLean, Boulder, CO 80305 > 1336 Edith Stevens, Boulder, CO 80305 > 1337 Jane W. Greenfield, Boulder, CO 80306-4887 > 1338 Jenny Pettit, Loveland, CO 80537 > 1339 Tammy Lynn, Boulder, CO 80304 > 1340 Shawn Jeanquart-Wacholz, Wauwatosa, WI 53213 > 1341 Susan Lex, Milwaukee, WI 53211 > 1342 Jeff Lex, Milwaukee, WI 53211 > 1343 Penney Johns, Grafton, WI 53024 > 1344 Donna Grady, WI 53074 > 1345 Paul Grady,WI 53074 > 1346 Amy Szalkowski 53718 > 1347 Ted Szalkowski 53718 > 1348 Barbara Eckstein IA 52245 > 1349 Benjamin Basan IA 52245 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:07:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: rebellion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the rebel doesn't save the world he makes a world his own he doesn't collect he connects the points of light within his own darkness then he burns down his own house tears out the foundation that someone else built he establishes his own who knows who will come to visit ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:10:19 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Re: Funding for Public Radio In-Reply-To: <86brdt7j7q.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks. I've usually been quite vigilant about e-petitions etc. but since this came from someone who usually knows better, I hadn't given it a second thought. Apologies listees. On 11/19/04 1:05 PM, "Dan Waber" wrote: > Good idea to check snopes.com anytime anyone suggest you forward any > email. It's almost certainly an urban legend. This one is a variant. > > http://www.snopes.com/politics/arts/nea.asp > > > Benjamin Basan wrote: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:27:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: the ultimate pornography In-Reply-To: <86brdt7j7q.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sestina - the Ultimate Pornography This is the ultimate pornography and I see them, bending to read or clicking to watch the latest me come, touch my wounds, feel the parts I no longer can dance in the death of the light. Hey, he said, you gotta light? So I says, Look, I'm inta pornography & all but I don't know if we can get away with this, I mean I read somewheres & I dunno how I feel about it... but he just sez Look on me Ye mighty, & etc. Little old me appearing in a not very good light I'm afraid, but what did I feel while doing it, those pornographic prisoners splayed out, I only read the articles, haha, while sitting on the can. Oh, it's cool, I mean, I can dig it, like, out there all alone, 'me so horny,' easy to read on bitch's face she wants it, light her up, bang! Pornography? What da hell's that, you feel? But let me tell how numb I feel. Thankful for the beating - can you understand? Sex in pornography is not love, is not even sex. This is me shouting back at them, almost light- hearted, demanding my sentence be read. It's true - no one can read the writing on this wall, feel what there is to feel, light at the end of - who can say? No you & no me only a looker and looked at: Pornography. Don't you fuckin' look at me. Read your paper and walk if you can, feel your way through this pornography of shadow and light. THE REACH OF WAR: HOSTAGES; Captive Turk in Iraq Tells Of Fearful Struggle to Live By SUSAN SACHS (NYT) 1513 words Published: September 24, 2004 http://query.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article ?res=FB0713F73A5D0C778EDDA00894DC404482 Perhaps the words were meant to be reassuring after the blindfold and the guns at her back. But for Zeynep Tugrul, a young Turkish journalist held hostage in northern Iraq, her captor's calm statement was as comforting as bathing in ice. ''Please understand why we have to make sure who you are,'' said the man who had seemed so friendly, the one everyone called the emir, or leader. ''There have been lots of spies here, and we had to cut their heads off.'' Ms. Tugrul, a diplomatic affairs correspondent with the daily newspaper Sabah, was freed last week by Iraqi kidnappers after four days of terror and hope, surviving the double pressure of arguing for her own life while trying to protect a Canadian colleague. She and Scott Taylor, the publisher of a military affairs magazine in Canada, spent most of their captivity together in the northern Iraqi towns of Tal Afar and Mosul, and in desert shantytowns in between. After being handed from one group of captors to another, they were separated on Sept. 11, the day of her unexpected and unexplained release. Mr. Taylor was let go the next day. As captives, she said, they discussed death impassively. ''I would say, 'Let's kill each other,''' Ms. Tugrul said. ''And Scott would say, 'Don't let them kill me blindfolded. And tell my son I didn't cry and that I was strong.' ''And then I'd tell him, 'You come and stand in front of me before I die, because I don't want the last person I see to be somebody I don't know.''' . . . The Arab men wrapped a red and white scarf around her face, so tightly that she thought she would go blind. They led her to a hallway and started beating her. It was only then, she said, that she realized how numb she had become. ''I know it sounds strange,'' she said, ''but I was happy at that moment because at least I could feel my body. I felt like I was coming back to myself.'' ''Your friend has confessed everything!'' the men shouted. ''Are you ready to confess?'' She yelled back, ''We came here for you, to get your story, so I've got no words to say to people like you.'' ''And that was when they got really angry,'' she continued. ''But you know, that was the real me.'' ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:22:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d7041119095864fd2c43@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Picking up on the notion of "homolinguistic translations" - for those familiar with my work - I am very sympathetic to "reverential hijackings" whether linguistic or acoustic. Of the latter, I have always like the various (from ironic, to rebellious to mega-sentimental) jazz improvs on Broadway musical and Tin-Pan Alley pop standards. (Whether by Ellington, Ornette Colman, Coltrane, etc.) Much of it is done in the spirit of 'cleaning it up and making it more real' to make it respond in a fresh way to the contemporary circumstance of the artist(s) and the time. What seems coming up at St. Marks, a re-chipping away at Hebrew letters, seems also in that same spirit - giving the original work a contemporary rebirth out of what may now read as ancient shackles - where the text has become an obligation rather than a liberating force. I suspect, on a broader level, many of us are constantly hijacking the goods - say high modernist poets - from the protectors in order to shake the work out & give it a new ride. Which is not to say there is not a level of respect to the process. More - as I see it - it is a way of honoring some of our progenitors and letting old stuff rebirth anew. (Barry Watten's recent dialogs with Kenneth Fearing I find an interesting approach to this, as well.) Certainly that's been my own on-going experience of making 'antonymical translations' of Zukofsky's "A", Ann Carson's translations of Sappho, and further back, the work of Fanny Howe. I appreciate riding and taking off from those shoulders. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com >>> with musicians but i feel for this particular project (working with and >>> against a variety of languages, histories, ethnic and religious codes) and >>> given >>> there will also be visual projections of the text itself, adding the >>> provocative mix of non-language based sound might add an interesting >>> element... >>> >>> As per what "is" a homolinguistic translation" or more appropriately a >>> "homophonic" translation" -- it's a translation into the "same" (homo) >>> language. >>> So, it questions or problematizes the notion of "translation" -- >>> acknowledging that language itself is never pure; that a translation is >>> always already >>> moving through and across or between languages, cultures, codes... >> oh heck, here's a more complete explanation, exploration of my agenda... >> xo >> >> Sefer Yetzirah: The Book of Creation >> Homolinguistc Trans'elation >> >> I can take squashes and pumpkins, >> and with the Sefer Yetzirah, make them into >> beautiful trees. (Rabbi Yehoshua ben Chananya, 1st C.) >> >> The Sefer Yetzirah (Book of Creation also known as Book of the Letters) is >> the "oldest and most mysterious" of all Kabbalistic texts and dates back to >> 100 >> BCE. Originally transmitted in Aramaic as an Oral Teaching, was transcribed >> and bound into a Hebrew text, translated into German, Italian and eventually >> English. Today, it exists in fragments, residues - a network of echoes, >> traces >> of versions layered upon versions that point to the ghostly remnants of an >> inaccessible / impossible origin. This homo(r)phonic trans-elation of the >> first >> chapter moves through and across an intra-lingual, cultural and geo-poetic >> terrain, and through a process of `homage and parricide', attempts to pay >> allegiance to this cryptic history. >> >> The focus of the Sefer Yetzirah is on the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet >> (how they were formed, how they inter-relate, how they make meaning). The >> text >> itself is inscribed through slippage, elision, rupture and undecidability, >> and >> language is foregrounded as "a continuum of letters", names, mathematical >> equations, gates of meaning. >> >> One of the reasons I chose this text was that I find it fascinating how the >> Sefer Yetzirah, as a religious doctrine, is lodged firmly in a metaphysical >> tradition - yet with its focus on letters, language, on meaning production, >> the >> "meta" (beyond) becomes an linguistic space, an intervening space, a place of >> syncretism, juxtaposition and integration. Through this translative praxis, >> I >> was interested in carving out ways in which this text could be dislodged from >> a socio-religious and historically-limiting hermeneutic (not mired within an >> onto-theologically insulated discourse validated by transcendency), but >> rather >> could be reviewed as a polyglossic textual arena without specific meaning and >> heterogenous to all hermeneutic totalization. >> >> Thus, through a process of recombination and permutation of letters, sounds, >> rhythms, textures, this translation (or "transluc-nacion") enacts (or puts >> into play) a Kabbalistic hermeneutic whereby there is an audible >> reverberation of >> the various languages, histories, codes - that enfold into each other, caress >> each other, speak to each other. >> >> By a slight displacement by slipping one word in beneath another, it seems to >> mimic Nietzche's Geschichte eines Irrtum (History of an Error) announcing the >> narration of a fabrication: "how the true world finally becomes a fable" - a >> fabrication that produces precisely, nothing other than the idea of a true >> world - which risks hijacking the supposed truth of the narration. >> >> For this translation, i used the Gra Version (which in its totality contains >> 6 chapters and consists of about 1800 words). i have aimed to maintain all >> orthographic accoutrement of the original text: line spacing, capitalization, >> commas, periods and quotation marks. >> >> In the beginning there was repetition, reproduction. translation. >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:46:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Organization: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: The Fall of the Yankees In-Reply-To: <20041119141452.GA52222@mail15c.boca15-verio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on the lighter side: extra special bonus points to anyone who a) actually reads this b) can tell what poem it's based on Idiot Wind or The Fall of the Yankees a fragment High in the hazy vastness of a suite far above the riff-raff baseball fans far from spring and his team's quick start sat the white-haired Boss, ears oozing steam, still as the desolate Gotham night. The chant "Who's your Daddy?" rung in his head like the Shot Heard 'Round the World. No cigar smoke filled the air with victory's smell, no shortstop robbed a basehit skimming o'er the grass, but where the last ball fell, there did it rest. A plane droned overhead, louder still by reason of the awkward silence choking the room; the janitor retreated, pulling the door closed with an apologetic click. Over the plush carpet large high heels stepp'd, but paused like rabbits in tall grass, afraid to break the spell. Upon the desk the hand that signed the checks twitched once and died, unshaken; and his rheumy eyes were glazed; while his bobble head rocked back and forth, and a bit of drool trickled from his lip. It seemed unwise to rouse him from this state; better to let the idiot wind blow and fade than to stand naked before it; but timidly the intern passed a hand before George's face. She was a traveling secretary. By her wizardry men arrived precisely at all hours in distant towns; in her mind timetables swam like sweet music; at her whim doormen jumped, cabs swerved, planes touched down on oily tarmacs. But Oh! no one hustled for her now, no wheels were set in motion, the team bus sat cold in some Bronx garage; now all that sped was her sad heart, all else come to rest. As if machinery had just shut down; as if the vast thing had ground to a halt screeching and clicking, and her sullen tear was its last drop of oil spilling out. One hand she pressed upon that glowing spot where her cell phone flashed, as if its red light, reminder of what was gone, pierced her side. With the other she probed for a pulse on George's stiffened neck, and leaning low, spoke into his red and ringing ear, her voice exploding with a harsh Brooklyn tone. Some well-meant words, to be sure, and would that we had been there to report, verbatim, what she says; alas, we must but paraphrase: "George, wake up! Snap out of it, you old fool! It's better to lose and win than to win and lose, and that is all the comfort left to us now, cold though it may be. Think of 1991, when Isiah led his team off the court like a child indignantly stomping out of a playroom after Jordan had ended their reign; remember Dean screaming into the mike just last year, his campaign run aground on the reef of his own anger; most of all, think of the free agents out there, the Beltrans and the Pavanos, the Radkes and, yes, even sweet Pedro, who could be yours for a song. What I mean, Georgie, is there's still time to snatch from defeat this little victory, but you must hurry; Image is Everything. Seize the future in the instant, get out in front of this wave and ride it, till you are safely past the storm; buck up and act your millions, sir." As when in the second game of a twi-night doubleheader, the whole crowd is worn down to a dull murmur, yet the sight of a certain player stealing a basehit in the hole or racing to beat out an infield dribbler rouses their dampened spirits, wringing from them one last ecstatic roar, so her speech scorched his heart. Then she sighed and fell back on the couch, checking to see who'd called; finally free, there was a hotel in Tahoe where an old flame waited... Outside the window, on a little ledge, pigeons met and mated, then flung themselves into the dark sky. Yet still this pair sat like the statues in Monument Park, the Boss comatose behind his desk, the intern impatient yet frozen in place. Till at last the king came to, shook his wizened mane like a man shocked back to life, noticed the old dusty trophies in their case, the empty spot for the next sore as a pulled tooth; then saw the woman and as one just learning the language, spoke: "You insolent little wench, how dare you interrupt my reverie, burst in here telling me which stars to sign- --Get out of here! You're fired! But wait; you're a woman; do I look older to you than I did - is my hair - I mean I know I'm growing old... I don't understand. We won! We snatched A-Rod out from under them, signed Vasquez over Schilling, gave a cool 20 mill to Kevin Brown... they guaranteed victory! Now my empire's dashed like peanut shells. I feel the worm that felled Giambi twist in my gut. Let me tell you a story: When I was just 13 my parents gave me money to go to Coney Island with my best friend, Peter Jones. Saturday night we dashed out dreaming of cotton candy, the Tilt-a-Whirl, all those rickety old rides, their neon splashed like fireworks in our racing brains, racing to beat the agonizing trains that took us there - this was Autumn 1942 - the night crisp with leaves the color of warm jewels on New York's pallid throat, ruby and amber hues pasted to the sky. And when the doors opened at last we rushed out to - nothing. No rides, no candy, no screams carried momentarily to our ears like light from a guttering flame. No. The park was closed up for the year. Instead we bought soggy hotdogs and wandered to the boardwalk, dark by now, then to the end of the piers where old men dipped rods in the Atlantic, loitering out of season. For Jones the disappointment thickened an already despondent nature to the point of comic suicide; for me it merely stiffened my resolve. Never to be caught off-guard, never left out in the cold. That night I steeled my heart for the bitter struggle of all that lied ahead." The Aeron chair flew back; the Boss rose like Liston from the mat, shaking off the jolt of a staggering blow, bloodied but on his feet for the next round, oblivious to the secretary who quietly chatted with her lover. "Get Cashman on the horn! Whither Torre? Can't I buy another championship? Quick - I want to pore over statistics, look at averages, E.R.A's - Who IS your Daddy? (At this the Boss paused and caught his image mirrored in trophy's gleam.) The intern leaped up and slapped an awkward high-five in George's outstretched hand, then talked a mile a minute: "Yes! You've saved the House that Ruth Built..." [to be continued...] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:06:29 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: Funding for Public Radio In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII folklorists who study urban legend call these foaftales (friend of a friend tales). this personal connection works to ground the urban myth in some sort of authenticity. so, "a woman who works with my aunt went down to Florida and picked up some guy at the pool. when she woke up, scrawled in lipstick on the hotel room mirror in red lipstick, was -Welcome to the world of AIDS". That's a popular one that comes around every spring break season. The cookie recipe one will start making th rounds soon. just in time for christmas. There is a journal devoted to foaftales out of Memorial University of Newfoundland. not sure if it is on-line though. cheers, kevin On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Benjamin Basan wrote: > Thanks. I've usually been quite vigilant about e-petitions etc. but since > this came from someone who usually knows better, I hadn't given it a second > thought. > > Apologies listees. > > > On 11/19/04 1:05 PM, "Dan Waber" wrote: > > > Good idea to check snopes.com anytime anyone suggest you forward any > > email. It's almost certainly an urban legend. This one is a variant. > > > > http://www.snopes.com/politics/arts/nea.asp > > > > > > Benjamin Basan wrote: > -- --------------------------- http://www.afghanrestaurant.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:02:48 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "andrew lovatt, editor" Subject: moving beyond the two-burger democracy Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit greetings folks watching the fandango from this green offshore colony, reminds that it is a poet's job to melt the armour of the sense-less, petrified robots, one drop at a time. while those who are open-to-change bikker about the shape of butterflies (and moon at the deep group depression), there's work to be done. change of understanding necessarily begs a change to more human-ness... thus, for the hard of hearing we might shout... poisoned cup by andrew lovatt hunger & thirst despair & desire lust & necessity how you circle us with your sweet poisoned cup our souls deflated run out by prosperity fast food & popcorn tv with happy endings how could we not be grateful for your war you raise our lust with promises of the blackest enemies in your klieg light we can appear to have halos comforted by your brand an illusion of reason sold as a lifestyle choice the two burger democracy of satisfied desires leaves us hungrier we will pretend being who others appear to be so that our consciences sleep soundly in their beds thirsting for more like dry mouthed expectants [] a n d r e w l o v a t t : e d i t o r d e a d d r u n k d u b l i n & o t h e r i m a g i n a l s p a c e s poems - live readings - stories - writings manifestos - digital galleries - flash & movies new works coming online now from: alan jude moore, andrew lundwall, darran anderson, aoife mannix, barry fitton, the bogside artists, bonnie macallister, calvin hernton, carl neville, d garcia wahl, dolly sen, eddie wall, frank walsh, ignacio fusilier, john g hall, konstantina chochlaka, l ward abel, lane ashfeldt, liam cahill, m a littler, maired byrne, marissa ranello, michael gauss, michael rothenberg, monica pace, pieter zandvliet, ralph david samuel, rodger jacobs, sean patrick murphy, sinead gallgher, sonja broderick, stephanie durann, stephen moran, stephen oliver, susan kennedy, terri carrion, thich nhat hanh, tom filmyer, tom wright, ulrike gerbig, and more flash art : new poetry and art to contribute, email the editor@deaddrunkdublin.com. guidelines? explore the boundaries of experience & push the doors of perception. dig deep & look high. http://www.deaddrunkdublin.com/?eml ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:15:02 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Bradshaw Subject: Re: Dalasax oh phony shit In-Reply-To: <20041119.001041.-68795.4.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Steve D, or achhhhhh, you shouldn't take offense at my insinuation about improv not being respectable. For one, it was the kind of vicissitudinal opinion intended for a personal friend, not a listserve composed mainly of people I don't know personally -- as I wrote, it was sent here by accident, and I had a feeling it would cause some misunderstanding. Though I do think my feelings on such matters have at least a smidgeon of import, as I have in fact done the poetry + music thing quite a bit -- and from both sides. From age 8 I was trained as a musician, first on violin, then guitar, and then cello. When I decided to quit formal training at 20 I played improv almost exclusively, performing many times w/ various poets, dancers, etc. But I got pretty burnt out after a few years, and was frustrated with the various improv circles I went thru (all west coast), and exhausted with the form as whole. I still am. When I started focusing on poetry -- alas, I am one of those unfortunate ones who gave up music for poetry -- when I tell poets this, most respond w/ "WHY?!!" -- I read w/ musicians a few times, seemed a natural enough transition. While I have had a few good experiences, I've found it's really not my kind of thing. That's all. But I do agree w/ Vernon Frazer that the combination of the sounds of the Sefir Yatserah and good musicians could be incredible. Wish I could be there. But I am still weary of probably most poetry + music combos/events/etc., because a lot of poets are not good musicians and can't transition well into the world of sound (for that matter, this is a problem of poetry readings in general). But this says nothing about your (or Karasick's) work with musicians. I'm not familiar with it. Maybe it would rock my world. Who knows. Maybe this doesn't answer any of your questions. Don't be sad. Iosheph >From: Steve Dalachinksy >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3- sax oh phony shit >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:52:38 -0500 > >this is really sad have you ever read with a sax player? well i have >they can be too loud and get in the way because they are like another >voice or like daniel joe mcphee many others i've read with be an equal >voice . suspicious of what? what are you suspicious of? or is that just a >figure of speech Music and poetry as a combo? just sax and voice what? > you've hit a nerve there my boy you sound like you know daniel and his >work so you should be aware of how respectful he can be if he needs too >or is asked to >i read with him on two occasions where he was too damned respectful and >on other occassions where i had to scream or keep quiet but that's the >chaNCE YOU TAKE WHEN COMING to the gig cold and if you don't speak up >before the gig beginsa > >try kerouac and zoot sims al cohn and try my cd w/daniel and sabir and >other saxophonists when it works with sax or other musicians it's >heaven and like i said when it fails it fails miserably tho most won't >admit that. > >and when one learns after awhile to compensate vocally w/ a good sound >system or hearty voice ( and i'm not talking performance here ) well >anything goes and come down to bpc tues the 23rd and hear a bunch of >us read with amram ok it ain't no sax but hey french horns flutes etc >miraculous the way he accompanies the words as all great musicians do >when they realize the voice speaking is like the voice singing leider > >if they play as i term it below the level of hearing or on a par or >listen w/give and take wow what else can i say wow tho i will agree >w/one thing sax can be the hardest if the player plays too loud ah >i'm rambling good night all > >and what doe you mean daniel is one of the few improvisers who make it a >respectable form ? i really resent that ... i can name you shit >without exaggeration 50 or more w/out even trying maybe 100 >maybe.......ach who are you anyhow? who do you listen to musically or >poetically? ach ach ach that's why these musicians struggle even >sometimes more than poets do to get by ach achhh achhhhhhhhhhhhh >this has been an improvised message from achhhhhhhhh ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:38:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JERRY Subject: Re: "poetry and playing" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Bailey's playing/reading is pretty interesting and i like what > he's doing. Any more of that out there? Or recordings by other > artists anyone could recommend? The work by Faking Trains http://smallbany.com/fakingtrians ... specifically the cd "PATRIOT ACTS", available for free... just e-mail spodeo@capital.net and put "cd" in the subject line. Cheers, Gerald Schwartz gejs1@rochester.rr.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:33:19 -0800 Reply-To: Denise Enck Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Denise Enck Subject: David Kherdian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone here have contact information for David Kherdian? I have a message to pass along to him ~ I can be reached at denise@emptymirrorbooks.com cheers & gracias ~ Denise - Empty Mirror Books www.emptymirrorbooks.com Quanta Webdesign for the Arts www.quantawebdesign.com Denise Enck www.denise-enck.com Voleur de Feu online arts mag www.voleur-de-feu.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:36:54 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: In foe culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "How are we to understand and attain the knowledge of the present time?" Kia Lindroos asks at the very beginning of her study of Benjamin. [1943] "The maquis put the flag on the bridge and sent round to the mayor to tell the town crier that the bridge was in the hands of the maquis and nobody should cross it, then came the night, the maquis gathered from all sides attacked the fleeing Germans and killed anywhere from fifty to eighty of them in the marshes, the nephew of our baker killed five and the butcher boy killed four, the Germans were trying to escape toward Aix-les-Bains, but there others of the maquis pushed them back and it became a regular rabbit drive..." (Stein 235). "I think of the Americans of the last war, they had their language but they were not yet in possession of it, and the children of the depression as that generation called itself it was beginning to possess its language but it was still struggling but now the job is done, the G.I. Joes have this language that is theirs, they do not have to worry about it, they dominate their language and in dominating their language which is now all theirs they have ceased to be adolescents and have become men" (Stein 259). [2004] In the 17.11.04 Le Monde translation the space between two languages can be seen: "Sur l'enregistrement, on peut entendre un marine faire remarquer en entrant dans les lieux qu'un homme respire encore. "He's fucking faking he's dead" ("Cet enculé fait semblant d'être mort"), dit-il. "Oui, il respire", répond un autre marine. "He's faking he's fucking dead!", répète le premier marine." [1940-1960] In the Tenth Prelude of Introduction to Modernity, "Renewal, Youth, Repetition," Henri Lefebvre mentions another space: "the gulf between 'what is happening', the event for which no one can foresee the consequences, and the time when everyone knows 'what really happened', when the consequence is plain to see." Lefebvre writes that this gap is widening, which he attributes to "a somewhat superficial interest in history, and the distortion of the immediate historical past" (162). Reading "On the Concept of History," Lindroos writes: "Benjamin turns to the idea of 'showing', as opposed to narrating history [...] 'Ich habe nichts zu sagen, nur zu zeigen.'" (PW 574). She sees this quote pointing in two directions, not only back towards the baroque but towards our own time, "the end of the 20th century, in which events have become increasingly visual, although at this point rather through technical means than by allegoric images" (93). [17.11.04] To relate the English "now all theirs" of Stein's G.I. Joes to the interpretive problem posed by the audio-visual information conveying the vernacular force - "in dominating" - of one's native tongue accompanying the (edited) view of a war crime would be to locate the wider context, hearing in the soldier's words recorded in the Mosque the superficial history or worse, the failure of language and imagination in Stein's Wars I Have Seen: "The uncritical reception of tradition implies a problem, which is transferred into a 'truth' of this heritage, and is conceived of as temporally stable and non-transformable. Here, the idea of the redemption of a situation means liberating historical heritage from its continuity and stability (GS 1: 1242)" (Lindroos 56). [27.02.91] "'The lead company behind us is tearing up all those vehicles,' someone tells battalion headquarters as the recording begins.... Allen reports on Ware's battalion net, 'There's shooting, but there's no one there' -- no combatants -- 'to shoot at.' Ware answers, 'I understand,' and then asks a series of operational questions about maps. Later, Manchester asks Allen, 'Sir, what element is firing behind us?' Allen: 'I have no fucking idea.' An unidentified Scout asks, 'Why are we shooting at these people when they are not shooting at us?' Brasfield: 'They want to surrender.... Fucking armored vehicles [the Bradleys]. They don't have to blow them apart.' Sporadic firing continues. Someone asks Allen, 'Why don't you tell them, sir, that they are willing to surrender. Tell 'em that.' Someone else says, amid the noise, 'It's murder.' Ware is on the radio when someone says, 'We shot the guys we had gathered up.' Another voice interjects, 'They didn't have no weapons.' Ware calls for all firing to stop and then asks another question about routine battalion procedures. 'He heard it; he knew it,' Sergeant Mulig told me later, speaking of Ware. 'But it didn't register.'" ___ Seymour Hersh. "Overwhelming Force." The New Yorker, May 22, 2000. Kia Lindroos. Now-Time | Image-Space. Jyvaskyla: SoPhi, 1998. Henri Lefebvre. Introduction to Modernity. London: Verso, 1995. Gertrude Stein. Wars I Have Seen. London: Brilliance Books, 1984. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:40:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: "poetry and playing" In-Reply-To: <000c01c4cea1$c3166da0$1f7da918@rochester.rr.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Is Aldon Nielson out of commission? (I actually tried to email him a week or so ago with no response). Or Maria Damon. But I suspect they are variously good authorities on the discography of collaborations of particularly African American poets and musicians, including Sax players. (As would be Nathaniel Mackey, who I don't think is on this list) In addition to Spoken Word stuff, the seventies and eighties were full of interesting combinations of musicians from Detroit, St. Louis, Chicago and the West working in New York with poets at the Tin Palace and Public Theater among other venues. (A little example that comes to mind re the Sax is David Murray's work with Ntozake Shange to whom he was briefly married). Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com >> Bailey's playing/reading is pretty interesting and i like what >> he's doing. Any more of that out there? Or recordings by other >> artists anyone could recommend? > > The work by Faking Trains http://smallbany.com/fakingtrians ... > specifically the cd "PATRIOT ACTS", available for free... > > just e-mail spodeo@capital.net and put "cd" in the subject line. > > Cheers, > Gerald Schwartz > gejs1@rochester.rr.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:05:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Bev Harris Identifies Voter Fraud Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Write to major news organizations and demand they cover the story ... the time is now. http://got-voice.blogspot.com/ Did Bev Harris Catch Vote Fraud Perpetrators in The Act? by Thom Hartmann =A0 There was something odd about the poll tapes. A "poll tape" is the phrase used to describe a printout from an optical=20= scan voting machine made the evening of an election, after the machine=20= has read all the ballots and crunched the numbers on its internal=20 computer. It shows the total results of the election in that location.=20= The printout is signed by the polling officials present in that=20 precinct/location, and then submitted to the county elections office as=20= the official record of how the people in that particular precinct had=20 voted. (Usually each location has only one single optical=20 scanner/reader, and thus produces only one poll tape.) Bev Harris of www.blackboxvoting.org, the erstwhile investigator of=20 electronic voting machines, along with people from Florida Fair=20 Elections, showed up at Florida's Volusia County Elections Office on=20 the afternoon of Tuesday, November 16, 2004, and asked to see, under a=20= public records request, each of the poll tapes for the 100+ optical=20 scanners in the precincts in that county. The elections workers -=20 having been notified in advance of her request - handed her a set of=20 printouts, oddly dated November 15 and lacking signatures. Bev pointed out that the printouts given her were not the original poll=20= tapes and had no signatures, and thus were not what she'd requested.=20 Obligingly, they told her that the originals were held in another=20 location, the Elections Office's Warehouse, and that since it was the=20 end of the day they should meet Bev the following morning to show them=20= to her. Bev showed up bright and early the morning of Wednesday the 17th - well=20= before the scheduled meeting - and discovered three of the elections=20 officials in the Elections Warehouse standing over a table covered with=20= what looked like poll tapes. When they saw Bev and her friends, Bev=20 told me in a telephone interview less than an hour later, "They=20 immediately shoved us out and slammed the door." In a way, that was a blessing, because it led to the stinking evidence. "On the porch was a garbage bag," Bev said, "and so I looked in it and,=20= and lo and behold, there were public record tapes." Thrown away. Discarded. Waiting to be hauled off. "It was technically stinking, in fact," Bev added, "because what they=20 had done was to have thrown some of their polling tapes, which are the=20= official records of the election, into the garbage. These were the ones=20= signed by the poll workers. These are something we had done an official=20= public records request for." When the elections officials inside realized that the people outside=20 were going through the trash, they called the police and one came out=20 to challenge Bev. Kathleen Wynne, a www.blackboxvoting.org investigator, was there. "We caught the whole thing on videotape," she said. "I don't think=20 you'll ever see anything like this - Bev Harris having a tug of war=20 with an election worker over a bag of garbage, and he held onto it and=20= she pulled on it, and it split right open, spilling out those poll=20 tapes. They were throwing away our democracy, and Bev wasn't going to=20 let them do it." As I was interviewing Bev just moments after the tussle, she had to get=20= off the phone, because, "Two police cars just showed up." She told me later in the day, in an on-air interview, that when the=20 police arrived, "We all had a vigorous debate on the merits of my=20 public records request." The outcome of that debate was that they all went from the Elections=20 Warehouse back to the Elections Office, to compare the original,=20 November 2 dated and signed poll tapes with the November 15 printouts=20 the Elections Office had submitted to the Secretary of State. A camera=20= crew from www.votergate.tv met them there, as well. And then things got even odder. "We were sitting there comparing the real [signed, original] tapes with=20= the [later printout] ones that were given us," Bev said, "and finding=20 things missing and finding things not matching, when one of the=20 elections employees took a bin full of things that looked like garbage=20= - that looked like polling tapes, actually - and passed by and=20 disappeared out the back of the building." This provoked investigator Ellen Brodsky to walk outside and check the=20= garbage of the Elections Office itself. Sure enough - more original,=20 signed poll tapes, freshly trashed. "And I must tell you," Bev said, "that whatever they had taken out [the=20= back door] just came right back in the front door and we said, 'What=20 are these polling place tapes doing in your dumpster?'" A November 18 call to the Volusia County Elections Office found that=20 Elections Supervisor Deanie Lowe was unavailable and nobody was willing=20= to speak on the record with an out-of-state reporter. However, The=20 Daytona Beach News (in Volusia County), in a November 17th article by=20 staff writer Christine Girardin, noted, "Harris went to the Department=20= of Elections' warehouse on State Road 44 in DeLand on Tuesday to=20 inspect original Nov. 2 polling place tapes, after being given a set of=20= reprints dated Nov. 15. While there, Harris saw Nov. 2 polling place=20 tapes in a garbage bag, heightening her concern about the integrity of=20= voting records." The Daytona Beach News further noted that, "[Elections Supervisor] Lowe=20= confirmed Wednesday some backup copies of tapes from the Nov. 2=20 election were destined for the shredder," but pointed out that,=20 according to Lowe, that was simply because there were two sets of tapes=20= produced on election night, each signed. "One tape is delivered in one=20= car along with the ballots and a memory card," the News reported. "The=20= backup tape is delivered to the elections office in a second car." Suggesting that duplicates don't need to be kept, Lowe claims that=20 Harris didn't want to hear an explanation of why some signed poll tapes=20= would be in the garbage. "She's not wanting to listen to an=20 explanation," Lowe told the News of Harris. "She has her own ideas." But the Ollie North action in two locations on two days was only half=20 of the surprise that awaited Bev and her associates. When they compared=20= the discarded, signed, original tapes with the recent printouts=20 submitted to the state and used to tabulate the Florida election=20 winners, Harris says a disturbing pattern emerged. "The difference was hundreds of votes in each of the different places=20 we examined," said Bev, "and most of those were in minority areas." When I asked Bev if the errors they were finding in precinct after=20 precinct were random, as one would expect from technical, clerical, or=20= computer errors, she became uncomfortable. "You have to understand that we are non-partisan," she said. "We're not=20= trying to change the outcome of an election, just to find out if there=20= was any voting fraud." That said, Bev added: "The pattern was very clear. The anomalies=20 favored George W. Bush. Every single time." Of course finding possible voting "anomalies" in one Florida county=20 doesn't mean they'll show up in all counties. It's even conceivable=20 there are innocent explanations for both the mismatched counts and=20 trashed original records; this story undoubtedly will continue to play=20= out. And, unless further investigation demonstrates a pervasive and=20 statewide trend toward "anomalous" election results in many of=20 Florida's counties, odds are none of this will change the outcome of=20 the election (which exit polls showed John Kerry winning in Florida). Nonetheless, Bev and her merry band are off to hit another county. As she told me on her cell phone while driving toward their next=20 destination, "We just put Volusia County and their lawyers on notice=20 that they need to continue to keep a number of documents under seal,=20 including all of the memory cards to the ballot boxes, and all of the=20 signed poll tapes." Why? "Simple," she said. "Because we found anomalies indicative of fraud." Thom Hartmann (thom at thomhartmann.com) is a Project Censored=20 Award-winning best-selling author and host of a nationally syndicated=20 daily progressive talk show. www.thomhartmann.com His most recent books=20= are "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight," "Unequal Protection: The Rise=20= of Corporate Dominance and the Theft of Human Rights," "We The People:=20= A Call To Take Back America," and "What Would Jefferson Do?: A Return=20 To Democracy." http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/19/161748/66 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:01:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: THE HAMMER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (This was expanded from the original version, for possible inclusion in a book. As I expanded, it made less and less sense to me, precisely as the tools of analysis made less and less sense. One cannot argue with a hammer. The hammer is myself, the left, the right, all those divisions and monologies which are increasingly senseless as the world goes on its destructive path. As with many of us, I write to keep myself sane. As with many of us, inscription, with all the phenomenology it implies, is close to failure. - Alan) THE HAMMER Notes on the election in outline form, filled in, filled out, as if there were an essay / a conclusion. (Since the early 70s, when I taught a course called "The Year 3000," I always knew Kerry would lose. This is why.) 0. The Republican win was predicted and predictable. Now the infinity of analysis begins, an infinity that has already missed the point. The point is/was that demographics are all that are necessary - not tricks, conundrums. The election was clear from the geography. 1. There is nothing the Democrats might have done 'better.' The country voted its conscience. The country has a conscience, the conscience of the Fatherland, Motherland. The conscience of a country is determined by its constituents and their internal dynamics. This was not an election of issues, but psychoanalytics. 2. Its conscience is founded on a morality-based worldview, which is rural in origin, and relatively rigid. Worldviews are operational; with widespread unemployment, relatively liberal media, Net information explosion, increasing technological generation gaps, a rigid 'hedge around the Torah' keeps good from evil, and separates genders, races, sexual preferences, and others from selves. One keeps to the 'clean and proper body' free of contagion, corrosion, decay from within. The rural landscape is characterized by vast space and intensive information economies (newspapers, radio, etc.) - in relation to church, grange, 4-h, other communalities. The other is present by its absence. 3. 9/ll played a critical role, not only in revealing the extreme vulnerability of the country, but also in the production of an Islamic- fundamentalist alterity that could not be dismissed. Even in the heartland, Islam is visible. New York City, the target, developed a complex response within a mixed demographics; the heartland reaffirmed the violence and contagion of the other. 4. With the religious right, fundamental ontology replaces the episteme. What is contested is _not_ knowledge, its site/citation - but ontology (not ontological issues) based on the fundamentalist belief in deity. There is only one Book, Foucault's divine nature (divinatio) writ large in its pages. 5. Bush appeared, alive and life-like at the World Trade Center ruins almost immediately after, conjoining his image with the intensity of destruction. One can relate this to the dynamics of post-traumatic-stress syndrome; the two images are indissolubly linked. 6. The left continuously focused on the negative aspects of the Republican party, over-determining, at least in print, the violence of a world-view at odds with the rest of the planet. The left - by which I mean liberals and anyone in an oppositional relationship to the Republican party - remained unable to disseminate anything that would register in relation to basic moral issues; instead it reacted to the implicit violence of the right which insists on transcendent legislation within monotheistic demands. 7. Absolute morality is not concerned whatsoever with opinion. It is a fundamental structuring. 8. The right has been organizing, in the US, for at least a century and a half; this election and the last have been in preparation for decades. With the elimination of the 'fairness doctrine' under Reagan, and with monopoly ownership of local broadcasting, the right has been able to dominate the heartland without opposition. The corporate and Christian merge, to the benefit of both. Think of it as a form of salesmanship: God withholds and deploys. 9. In the 60s, which for many of us appears to be a history of the left, the right quietly embraced both technology and structural compromises that increased and solidified its power base, in rural and impoverished areas of the country. Televangelism was one of the first institutionalized ideological distribution systems. It remains coherent, organized, and funded. Its base criss-crosses the United States, from rural to urban; it plays in the disenfranchised. 10. A fundamental flaw is the assumption that so-called minority votes are liberal and leftist; in fact, the opposite is increasingly the case. The left operates, by and large, within a traditional view of labor and social services; ideology, sexuality, and religion are kept out of the equation. 11. The 'American dream' is both part of class distinctions, and a force in their elimination. Don't underrate its influence; no matter how hard we try, there is no revolutionary class, but only power, desire, economic status, and diffused and focused oppression. There is no class to the extent that there are few class cultures; regional cultures cut across all sorts of boundaries. Class identity is extremely fluid; it is no longer (if it ever was) a lever for revolutionary action. 12. Corporate America is far more diverse and problematic than the left assumes; it also presents a very real world of almost infinite choice and identifications. Its collusions and corruptions are our collusions and corruptions, and have absolutely nothing to do with God and God's State. But in its withholding, its presentation of infinite longing, it allies itself with religious fundamentalism. 13. Cultural capital in the US is far more important than economic capital, and its boundaries cut across the latter in terms of class. We are all white trash and we are all intellectuals and theorists. We are all soccer moms, NASCAR dads, South Park Republicans, gold-standard hoarders, participants in Amerikan cultural implosion. But this capital can be rigidified, ordered, regulated; it is in collusion with the regulation of the state and the regulation of the body. Hackers are not necessarily harbingers of choice; it is too often their choice against others. The country tends towards closure. 14. Far too many judgments are made 'for' rural and so-called back- water areas, which are almost never heard themselves. The information discourse networks and religious institutions of the majority of American voters are concretely effaced by abstraction. The water of baptism is not H2O. The left tends to ignore the internal coherency, cohesion, of the right - which is heard only in mockery, satire, stereotype. There is no dialectic at work in Amerika, and no indication that dialog would produce anything but knee-jerk sloganeering. 15. Morality and fear are interwoven; it is the abject stereotyped image of gays fucking that appears to corrode the 'clean and pure' body politic. Your marriage wrecks my marriage. It is a failure of the left not to deal with this; dismissing the violent imaginary out of hand ensures its force within the political arena. In other words, what _you_ do hurts me; we are all Christian, all one nation under God. _under_ God: literally in the missionary position, fucked by God. God is the only legal, pure, fuck; it makes all other fucks dangerous, perverse, intense and incandescent. 16. In conservative America, the negation of negation is not dialectical, but also a return to a rapturous positivity. The elimination of the Other is at the core of the Rapture. The Rapture does not disseminate; it filters. The negation of negation _thuds._ 17. If one's religion insists that abortion, for example, is murder, then any means, including murder as literal self-preservation, may be used in return as a defensive and pre-emptive action. It is not ever a question of one side listening to another; it is a question of war to an infinite degree. This waged by Good against Evil; it is the war pre-ordained in the Book of Books, the testaments, sutras, Koran, classics. It is the war which founds the configured and classical horizon of Aristotelian logic: negation is not fuzzy, and the boundaries are drawn. Once drawn, anything, any means of victory, is not only possible, but honorable, righteous. 18. The church in rural and disenfranchised America is a communal and cohesive force, one of the few institutions capable of lived-community and defense against the rest of the world. But more than this, the church is also the locus for community activity and identity. To dismiss it, even in its intolerant and sometimes evangelical varieties, is to miss the point of its existence. For the individual, the church is salvation, explaining and preserving morality, even forgiving and abetting the temptations of sin. 19. The church overdetermines the rest of the world; rural and other- wise isolated communities have a surprisingly low degree of information flux. The church provides stability in a late-late-capitalist world of postmodernity, where selves, ideologies, and languages are contested. Within testament and testimony, there is no contestation; the church, in other words, 'puts a hedge around the Torah' (Pirke Avot). 20. In my opinion, the image of Kerry hunting (and killing) was not only hypocritical and distasteful, but also a premature sign of defeat. However, this had no affect on the election per se, which was already determined, way back in the late 60s and early 70s, when Billy Graham created the first automated post-office in the US - a religious embrace of technology that forecast the future of the country. Perhaps the left 'created' - i.e. the hacking manifesto - but the religious right utilized, entrenched, constructed a primary embrace of individual and instrumental reason that guaranteed the supple application of power when and where needed. The only real question here is why it took so long. 21. The left has been hampered by split ideologies and critique; the right, which permits no critique, has worked constantly with umbrella ideologies. On the right: division beneath the sign of the absolute. On the left: absolute division. 22. What has been exposed and contested in the US is often business as usual in the rest of the world. We are witnessing a movement from republic to empire, from the primacy of voting, to the primacy of dominant interests. Lewinsky's stained dress? Entertainment serving political impotency. O. J.? Politics as usual. Every case is the case of the century. Empire and circuses. Dominant interests? Absolute ceiling of transcendent God and capital, Capital. 23. On a personal level - I have lived in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and the Bushlands of Texas and Florida. What happened was no surprise. I voted early yesterday, and felt a sense of relief at the minor _punctum_ I experienced. But I had no doubt that Bush would win, that my voice was primarily personal therapeutic. Instead of despair late last night/this morning, I've felt that our work, that of an opposition, has only just begun - that it could only just begin. We have to recognize, above all, that the US has done the will of the majority; the more we overlook this, excuse this, theorize this, wonder 'what went wrong,' the more we are weakened. Perhaps this is a positive sign - in the sense that the enemy, if it is an enemy, is clear, and no longer can be dismissed as an aberration. 24. The 'cultural war' is war. On our side: liberation, choice. On their side: lack of choice, governance. On our side: Infinite taxation and redistribution. On heir side: Zero taxation and centralization. On our side? The devils that plague. On their side: service to God. 25. Terror is an instrument of war. Terror is an instrument of piece. Terror is equivalent to sublimation. Terror is the wound that never heals. Terror is Mini's scar in Dracula. Terror throws the abject up in our faces. Terror constitutes closure against terror, against the abject. Terror is the speech of God. 26. Religion sublimates terror. To believe in God is to believe in terror. All difference becomes detour. Culture is detour, returning to the same place. The place is the place of God. Culture is the hedge of God. 27. I live, you die. Vote or die holds no truck with the faithful. The faithful live, do not die, die in order to live. Don't be deceived: The faithful fuck each other, divorce at a furious rate, commit crimes of the body, acts against and through the body, drugs and drinks coursing the body, the course of the body. The overcoming of the curse and course of the body is transcendence, the ultimate purity. I'm sorry, one good fuck and we go to Heaven. 28. Language is not action. Belief is action. Belief is not language. Theory talks itself to death. Academic theory rarely _acts_ from the classroom - always safe PC stuff, even now. _To believe is to act. To believe is not to speak, not to declare, attest, glossolalia._ Or these are _acts of belief,_ not necessarily _speech acts._ Believe, _just believe._ 29. The explication of fact in Michael Moore is replaced by the internalization of sin and the body in Mel Gibson. Old Testament, New Testament. _One cannot argue with the wound._ It's like watching a drama, someone getting kicked in the balls. As a viewer: _You feel it. They're your balls._ Try and talk now! 30. What the right knows: There is always already closure. Try and talk now! === Footnotes There are no footnotes to a scream. Bibliography The New Testament, King James Version === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:10:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: GRAMMAR BASICS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Now that the election is over and we've all been done in by he GOP, I = thought it appropriate for us to begin again working from the origins or = our efforts. =20 CONJUGATION AIDS I FUCK YOU FUCK HE FUCKS SHE WE FUCK YOU FUCK THEY FUCK THREE WHY FUCK TO FUCK SO... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 03:05:06 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 0 f m ll y e a n w p t n e d p 0 3.................................0.........................................0...........................d................................r.................................................n ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 03:09:03 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit open fall down empty 3:00.....back to....drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 04:49:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: THE HAMMER In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan, I'm not going to quote a lot of it, but, your composition is nothing but hate and contestation. You seem to believe anyone who does not live in the city, under concrete and pollution and big media in their face 24/7 (Alan Sondheim media) is less than human. You clearly believe all God-fearing people should die but you don't have the guts to come out-of-the-closet and explicitly say it. You dance around all kinds of stuff while invariably shitting on anything which doesn't meet your preferences. You revel in NYC. And you take innate joy in driving Sondheim-fabricated wedges between the 'left' and 'right' in an attempt to create fundamentalist structuring. You appear, to me, to have nothing to say here -- so you will say anything to be over-determining. Why don't you calm down the negative evangelizing? ..| Don't be deceived: The faithful fuck ..| ...divorce...commit crimes of the body, ..| acts against and through the body... etc. I think this, at least Alan, is a good revelation which we can all benefit from. People of all faiths and non-faith alike are engaged in all kinds of licentious activity ("Mary Mary quite contrary") yet you seem to find staunch offense with all people who do not insatiably advertise this disposition -- that to withhold a pornographic state is somehow non-Sondheimian, rigid, and operational. Indeed, to 'hedge around' is the transcendent ideal for most Americans. How does your garden grow? -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 06:27:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: andrew loewen Subject: Re: (Derek's) Hammer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Derek, As someone who hasn’t been hesitant to make an ass of himself on this list in the past, let me be the first to say that the fact that you are not joking is startling. I couldn’t parody your post if I tried – what have you done? “. . . your composition is nothing but hate and contestation . . . Alan Sondheim media . . . Sondheim-fabricated wedges. . . You clearly believe all God-fearing people should die. . . You dance around all kinds of stuff while invariably shitting on anything which doesn't meet your preferences. . . to withhold a pornographic state is somehow non-Sondheimian, rigid, and operational.” This is hysterical, and I do not mean funny. It might be funny (at your expense) if Alan’s work and the piece you cite in particular didn’t mean as much as they do to me. Are you okay? Really. You're joking right? ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 06:48:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: Hammer In-Reply-To: <20041120112733.92891.qmail@web51503.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ..| Really. You're joking right? My thoughts may be impulsive and ill-thought-out today but I don't think I'm joking anymore than Alan is. Sorry if I've brought my own hidden tensions out into the open. -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:51:09 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: The Hammer or The Town & The City MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sorry, Derek, but Alan is right on. I was born and raised in the big city with all its wonderful cultural opportunities, but being by nature a nature girl, I eventually opted for the rural scene. Fortunately, my last set of foster parents, were bleeding heart liberals who lived in the country; and their humanitarian views inoculated me against my impending years of religious searching that almost became my ruin. Also, the philosopher poet I snagged for a husband made sure I didn't jump off that cliff. He held onto my thong the whole time. I survived the sacred or rather profane intellectual suicide of the religious right. Since then my life has appeared to be the common road most taken but it hasn't been. My morality and fear disappeared into an individual phenomenology that no one can assail. There is no universal solution for the situation as Alan has so capably and starkly outlined. You can hope You can pray But the truth of lies Won't go away. Read my poem 'rebellion' again. That's the poet's path. Live it, and leave your own legacy. It might make a difference for someone, but I guarantee it won't for everyone, at least not for a necessary mandate. Mary, Mary ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:50:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: I'M GIVNG AWAY RECORDINGS OF MY JAZZ POETRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since jazz poetry's come under discussion the past few days, I'd like to offer copies of my 3 jazz poetry recordings to anyone on the list who's interested. I've burned each of them onto CD and am issuing them in a home-produced format. One of them was originally accepted by Leo records ten years ago, before the company made a sudden reversal. All of them feature good musicians, some of whom (Thomas Chapin, Mario Pavone and Joe Fonda) are highly regarded in the jazz avant-garde. If you're interested, please send me your mailing address via backchannel. Vernon Frazer http://vernonfrazer.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:26:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: PRESS ADVISORY: CLAC Condems Mass Arrest of Demonstrators on the Eve of the Liberal Party Convention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit PRESS ADVISORY: CLAC Condems Mass Arrest of Demonstrators on the Eve of the Liberal Party Convention PRESS POINT: Saturday November 20th, 10am Corner of Viger & Bleury, Parc Riopelle Contact: Stefan Christoff, the Anti-Capitalist Convergence of Montreal Cell: 514 885 8246 / Email: clac@taktic.org Montreal --- Friday November 19th, 2004 --- On the eve of the Quebec Liberal Party Convention, upwards of 100 people were encircled, arrested and ticketed while demonstrating to confront the neo-liberal economic agenda of the Charest government. Organized by the Anti-Capitalist Convergence of Montreal (CLAC) to denounce the Charest government ongoing attacks on all sectors of QuebecÕs society, the demonstration was met with unprovoked police and state repression. At approximately 7:30 pm, the Montreal police force, in full riot gear, surrounded the demonstration. Several protesters were singled-out, thrown to the ground and arrested by multiple riot police. Others were detained, handcuffed and forced to sit on the cold concrete ground over the course of several hours, while waiting to be processed for an unjustified arrest. This silencing of political dissent in Quebec is not new. During the past five years, more than 1850 demonstrators, involved with various movements for social justice in Montreal, have been victims of mass arrest policies enforced by the Montreal police. The vast majority of those arrested, charged and dragged through the legal system, have won important legal battles against state repression winning their trials, the vast majority of charges being dropped or dismissed. The CLAC demonstration took place as part of a broader fight-back against Charest, already initiated by labour unions and the community sector to disrupt the implementation of the Liberal Party agenda and work towards a general strike in Quebec. - 30 - ________________________________________________________ Montreal Muslim News Network - http://www.montrealmuslimnews.net Listen to Caravan, produced by Samaa Elibyari, every Wednesday from 2-3PM: http://www.montrealmuslimnews.net/caravan.htm ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 12:12:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: Hammer In-Reply-To: <000701c4cef6$e6405930$96e33c45@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Yeesh, Derek --Earlier I thought people were treating you too harshly, but now I'm starting to wonder. Alan Sondheim's having his say takes away from no one else's. Give him some space, man. At 03:48 AM 11/20/2004, you wrote: >..| Really. You're joking right? > > >My thoughts may be impulsive and ill-thought-out today but I don't think >I'm joking anymore than Alan is. > >Sorry if I've brought my own hidden tensions out into the open. > > > -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 15:47:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: flight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed flight the wing'ed brown pelican takes flight among icons suitable for framing the win'ged brown pelican at night suffuses my talons for taming increases my talent for blaming creates my tale-end for naming construes my tail-end for maiming the winging brown pelican at night plays harder and longer at gaming with pelicans snug and in flight http://www.asondheim.org/flight.jpg _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:23:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: latest SPOON RIVER POETRY REVIEW now available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The Summer/Fall 2004 issue of SRPR is now available. Contributors copies are being mailed as I write. In this issue: Luis Miguel Aguilar, Joe Amato, Anny Ballardini, Gaston Baquero, Douglas Barbour, Barbara Barg, James Bertolino, Daniel Borzutsky, Anita Boyle, Brigitte Byrd, James Cervantes, Jennifer Chapis, Kris Christensen, Ewa Chrusciel, Julie Cipolla, Brian Clements, Brenda Coultas, Joel Craig, Catherine Daly, Alan DeNiro, Kristin Dykstra, Gerald England, Juan Carlos Flores, Georges Godeau, Janet Goldberg, Arielle Greenberg, Matthew Guenette, Tim Hunt, Max Jacob, Judith E. Johnson, Kent Johnson, Doug Jones, Pierre Joris, Jeffrey Jullich, Jennifer L. Knox, John Latta, Rachel Loden, Kathleen McGookey, Joyelle McSweeney, Haki R. Madhubuti (FEATURED INTERVIEW), Michael Magee, Jonathan Mayhew, K. Silem Mohammad, Sheila E. Murphy, Brooke Nelson, Daniel Nester, John O'Leary, Karl Parker, Jack Pendarvis, Jennifer M. Pierson, Anthony Robinson, Mary Ruefle, Helen Ruggieri, Standard Schaefer, Kathleen Snodgrass, Alan Sondheim, Chuck Stebelton, Chris Stroffolino, Joel Barraquiel Tan, Tony Tost, David Trinidad, Julia Tsuchiya-Mayhew, Mark Weiss, W. Aaron Wilson Cover art by Brian Collier. Guest edited by Gabriel Gudding. Single issue price: $10 Annual subscription price (for individuals): $15 Annual subscription price (for institutions): $18 To buy, write to Tara Reeser, Director of Publications, Dept of English -- 4240, Illinois State Univ, Normal IL 61790 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:59:07 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@telus.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Sketches of No More (from More at 7:30) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit When No found out bout Was, he gather the Poro together. They managed to get his sissy bars back from this kid who said he knew shit bout woht happen but he was walkin roun wiph it. Kid said thét he bought it off some dudes for 10 bucks. He warn't sayin who... .......[rimshot] The lips was shut as to who was responsible for woht. So many.... No one would say, but it was sure, thét one daye thét they wouldn't be able to stop from boastin en braggin bout the shit, as it move from the chatter of couch conferences to, on the corners of, Me downtown. The massive bad would eat at um. To watch someone die ain't like the songs en flicks have you think. Like a smack sot... Your eyes die. Duppies en Long Mile MIA memories. Someone. ...done know who it was. So... Cept for... They took the part to Pallo who helpt them cut it up en solder en melt shit down en turn the pieces into somethin: 2 rings , 1 chain for roun the kneck, a name braclet for the wrist en a bullet, a blade, an ear stud en a dank pipe. All the stuff was rough but they'd be goin back to Pallo so they could pimp it all up. They spent the whole daye en come the Sun de red for down doin thét buildin. There was still some of the frame left en More held onto the tubed metal himself. Come the next daye, Pallo did a boot for the bwoys en helpt No en them take the Was down to the potholes wiph some 40ozers en an oz of Sensi Star thét Pallo dropt on them. They all went swimmin en by the time it the Sun for down they was drunk en blunted wiph the Was. En No, he done ovastan this shit. He can cry at night en cry in the mornin but he done tell them thét, nuh? No, he cyan quite figure for all this. He Gaon but No, he jus lil himself, gree. Peace. It jus all happen en it's like his birth is woht caused all this shit to fall apart cuz always everythin was better before him or any of his friends were born but they remember any of it. They only say so en thét jus done make them feel like worth much en all the shit jus keep fallin apart en maybe it was them. Woht? Peace. En No, he jus standin, facin home en all his homies, wiph their hoods up, are lookin at him for somethin, naw. But he cyan barely look after himself he jus lil, gree? Peace. Woht. ok. But it was better, gree, nuh? Peace. Hunt en assemble. We cayn wish him back. There no He Man. Jackie Chan wont come even though he's lil like all of them. Spawn would do somethin. Where he at? There warn't a Seseme Street solution to any of this, Gaw. Thét wasn't even the same friggin show. We neva have Block parties. You can get curbed but there ain't no Block parties. Where they at? Why cyan he figure this out on a Playstation? Peace. Peace. -Peace, Gaw, Woht, Gaw, Woht up? Is this jus a riot waitin to happen? Chris Rock he say, 'Jedus must a been a nekgah. They would neva treat a white man like thét.' I guess thét was funny. Woht up, Gaw Woht up, Gaw You still won, Gaw Lil Gaw Tee Gaw They cayn get to it, Gaw They ain't figure fo ghetto shit, Gaw We shaken on this isle, Gaw They clock us in hesteria, Gaw Can we kiss the seen, Gaw Where you at for 911, Gaw Young bravos, Gaw 2 + 3 = you woht, Gaw Woht we do naw, Gaw Bin in thét same sichiation Bin in thét same sichiation Bin in thét same sichiation 9 or won or won you neva make close, Gaw Woht do um, Gaw Slamm tons to the ground, Gaw Hear the weez from a dry toke take our attention way from dis shit, Gaw So low, Gaw Longso, Gaw Alone, Gaw 0 ain't a negative It's an absolute, Gaw Wohts the wieght of the world, Gaw 5 or 9 or won who, Gaw Won woht, Gaw You ain't mi dear, Gaw Why we treat Mizrahi like thét, Gaw Shi'i y Sephardi, Gaw Are we manufique or maniq, Gaw You still big Me up, Gaw Chuvah, Gaw Please build, Gaw La ilah, Gaw You wiph this, Gaw We shall rest We shall rest We shall rest, Gaw Done sweat it We fix it, Gaw Shukran Shukran Shukran, Gaw Peace, Gaw- Gawd must be animal or a kid or jus damn brokeass cuz they would neva treat a human like this. It was Joe not Jesse or Michael who said thét you done have to be Black to be a nigger no more. No handed Army the 5 Star Blue Note Book. He lookt at the openned words en as his hands held the spine, he stretcht his head deep into the page en went in. Spoke Army, -Waaaaaaaaaa. We. me. I. is. miss. y. o. u. y. u. you. al. alla. ways. y. ys. always. Was. peace. ace. peace- Says, Fuchx, -Thét chocolate, Army- 1425 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/34439.php http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/34073.php http://www.quran.ca/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=193 http://sask.cbc.ca/regionalnews/caches/sabo_stonechild041110.html Police show support for suspended officers http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/33592.php ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:30:51 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Hammer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a powerful rection like that is to be welcomed (in away its the way his work appear as - in a kind of flow..one is never sure what dirrection it is going) - shows someone is at least reading Alan...I sometimes think - kind of - " blast and curse Alan!" (or worse!).. then another part thinks... "There's too much of!!!" then..."but its incredible! " (deep down I'm maybe a bit jelaous of Alan's energy, the mass of it, the shear quantity,...then I think - sort of - "this is all crap, there's simply too much of it, bilgewater".. ...then I think (or part f me feels) "mavellous !!! great !!! ...incredible!! long live NY and THINKING Americans!!" I can understand varying reactions to alan/alan's work and each reaction is valid to some degree (eg what about Barthes discussion of writerly and readerly texts etc?)..the "hate " etc is inside the poem and in Alan's work it is dificult to separate the work and Alan's "true " thoughts etc ..his personas frm his poetry or philosophy...and so on... one is by turns fascinated, repelled, annoyed, made angry, bored, enchanted beyond a stone, very interested, irritated, wondering........ the Sondheim phenomena Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "derekrogerson" To: Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 12:48 AM Subject: Re: Hammer > > ..| Really. You're joking right? > > > My thoughts may be impulsive and ill-thought-out today but I don't think > I'm joking anymore than Alan is. > > Sorry if I've brought my own hidden tensions out into the open. > > > -- Derek > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:35:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Goat And The Blackbirds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed streamed, with bleeding down by face... assault only... the hole made by goat's tongue mimicked that blackened organ intestines' rubble never name nor prove late powdered blackbirds the syllables of an earlier face clasped, and clasped — and how, blackbirds, are you to be shewn streamed, with bleeding down by face?... assault only... the hole made by goat's tongue mimicked that blackened organ intestines' rubble never name nor prove late powdered blackbirds streamed, with bleeding down by face... assault only... the hole made by goat's tongue mimicked that blackened organ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:35:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Tyger On The Fifth Floor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed 8. - 7. - 6. - 5. - irresistible gentle prey plain orange tyger the stripes somewhere — glued to a prince, perhaps, one part Solomon, and one part Wormswork — Wormswork, why scratch Solomon, when he is still upon that thistle? 4. - 3.- 2.- 1.- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 19:37:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: The Anti-Empire Report, No. 15 Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/index.html The Anti-Empire Report, No. 15 By WILLIAM BLUM They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:00:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: funny deth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed funny deth privileged and opportune world over. will not impede the realization of my life time dream and ambition of expending my re of thou till feel my life gradually ebbing away. My only con cocktail of drug ea di ed with e k that you peru tate of mind. The content privileged and opportune world over. helping the le the world and I wi ick individual of thou olation i , but I tered to me. The drug been admini cocktail of drug ravaged my body and left me at the mercy of endle ravaged my body and left me at the mercy of endle cocktail of drug been admini have gone a long way in alleviating the pain till feel my life gradually ebbing away. My only con that I lived a life worthy of emulation and good heartedne of thou ick individual the world and I wi will not impede the realization of my life time dream and ambition of expending my re in the name of the lord, I pray that thi lightly unbelievable to you, but I a recently diagno di e ha have gone a long way in alleviating the pain ; I have touched the live and time toward h and hope that thi olation i were not exact about how long I have to live but I am in the know that the di with uttermo privileged and opportune world over. acro , but I terminal. The doctor with uttermo Greeting recently diagno ravaged my body and left me at the mercy of endle ; I have touched the live and time toward k that you peru were not exact about how long I have to live but I am in the know that the di and time toward acro e ha of thi acro e ha lightly unbelievable to you, but I a ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:00:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: I stand corrected! - check out this material on voting fraud (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed apologies. I didn't think there was much - but this analysis has convinced me otherwise. Fuck Bush. http://ucdata.berkeley.edu/new_web/VOTE2004/election04_Sum.pdf http://ucdata.berkeley.edu/new_web/VOTE2004/election04_WP.pdf http://www.electoral-vote.com/index.html http://www.electoral-vote.com/info/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:31:03 -0800 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: looking for poems on Tibet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looking for poems on Tibet (culture, political situation, geography, = Tibetan people, etc.) in time frame of beginning of Chinese occupation = to present, written by Tibetans or poets of any nationality. In = English, please. Thank you for any leads. Layne Russell ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:38:20 US/CENTRAL Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: I'M GIVNG AWAY RECORDINGS OF MY JAZZ POETRY With marginal posting ability here abroad I haven't had much chance to pipe up on the threads of interest & this one hits close to home since I've been doing a lot of text & sound improvisations for the last 25 years with sax, electronics, invented instruments of my own design & tape installations. I'm a little woeful that all the examples that have been mentioned so far seem to fall in the poetry & jazz category when there is so much that has been done in all genres of new music. I don't have a lot of my text/sound pieces online but here is a link to EUY, a zaumist opera for voices, invented instruments & electronics created by Semantic Never Vanish (myself & Elizabeth Was, circa 1986). This is a 45 minute piece so the mp3 downloads are a bit hefty but those of you on broadband interested in works outside the poetry & jazz category may find something of use. (Click on the links for EUY) http://cla.umn.edu/joglars/radio_caterpillar/index.html That said, I really encourage you all to take up Vernon on his offer. I got one of his CDs months ago & the interplay between readerly voice & instrumental voicing is intuitive & quite sensitive plus there are not many poet/bass players in circulation. mIEKAL >On Nov 20, 2004, at 6:50 PM, Vernon Frazer wrote: >Since jazz poetry's come under discussion the past few days, I'd like to >offer copies of my 3 jazz poetry recordings to anyone on the list who's >interested. I've burned each of them onto CD and am issuing them in a >home-produced format. One of them was originally accepted by Leo records >ten years ago, before the company made a sudden reversal. All of them >feature good musicians, some of whom (Thomas Chapin, Mario Pavone and Joe >Fonda) are highly regarded in the jazz avant-garde. If you're interested, >please send me your mailing address via backchannel. >Vernon Frazer >http://vernonfrazer.com --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Midwest Tel Net Web Based Mail. http://www.mwt.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 04:18:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: "poetry and playing" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks conrad surprisingly many like what derek selected of mine and find it the most appetizing on the cd actually maybe cause what he picked was the easiest to get a handle on one day i'll tellyou how it came about iwould have sent tougher stuff but well that's a longer story than i'll tell now anyway send derek dollars he has on incus 3 more cds where he talks and plays they are on his cdr line and can only be gotten from him they are quite qitty comprised of his own ramblings verything from chadbourne to kaiser to chinese food great stuff and of course there's plenty of readings with music out there starting w/ langston hughs and mingus a great kenneth patchen w/music that just got re-ssued he did about 3 with music kerouac there's a tape of pound in the 30's reading while he beats a little drum ann sexton 's got a great one shit there's some many keep asking i'll give ya more i have many tapes of the stuff and cds and lps me and others reading w/ amram on a cd jack michline read w/ saxophones alot great stuff i've read w/everything from drums to laptops reading w/ dancers is great off the record(ha) jane cortez wo wo etcc exhausted yawn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 03:52:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: I'M GIVNG AWAY RECORDINGS OF MY JAZZ POETRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nobody's talking about jazz poetry the discussion wa a guy who said he didn't trust saxophone with poetry at readingss i read with musicians constantly as i stated i've been called a jazz poet at times or been told or spoken of as having written jazz poetry but i'm not a jazz poete and i write what i write hey by the way if you want to hear some jazz poetry come to the bowery poetry club tues the 23rd of nov for david amram's 74th birthday party 7pm i'll be reading one of my jazz poems there and improv is not necessarily jazz and adeena is not a jazz poet tired haven't read any of other posts yet but vernon is great me too my cd with mostly jazz musician ( the first one0 is great and i almost entirely for its 73 minutes avoided reading jazz poetry also creeley did a cd recently w/jaz musicians and it certainly ain't jazz poetry nuff's nuff yabba yabba ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 04:51:58 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this blue screen this the the this blue dream this duh duh this blue night this aha aha this blue this an hr to daylight.....give this man a thesaurus...drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:49:30 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Waffle? I Still Like Alan's Work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that this (by Derek) is a valid response in many ways - or at least if we could leave off the "nothing but" - I can see however what angers Derek - its partly I think the pretence by Alan to a "great knowledge" and much of what is said in HAMMER - while, yes, it is insightful - is not correct. Much of it is waffly and fairly meaningless.Worse it sounds very defeatist.... To take one aspect - there is no inevitabilty about the defeat of the left - which is -if not what Alan says - somewhat what he points toward. The following is an example: 6. The left continuously focused on the negative aspects of the Republican party, over-determining, at least in print, the violence of a world-view at odds with the rest of the planet. The left - by which I mean liberals and anyone in an oppositional relationship to the Republican party - remained unable to disseminate anything that would register in relation to basic moral issues; instead it reacted to the implicit violence of the right which insists on transcendent legislation within monotheistic demands. This is pretty much waffle - ingenious waffle, but waffle all the same, and confuses the issues - what does it mean?? probably /Alan doesnt even know: no examples are given..sure there truths hidden in there but also mistruths and a lot of sheer nonsense - if he is including (as he says he does) the broad left he is thus diminishing the work done by many people in disseminating knowledge about the present regime and the war etc that people are still not politically aware to take strong reaction to radically to change the system is sad (or that they didnt vote Democrat is certainly a bit of a worrry) - but there is not really much difference between the Rs and the Ds - capitalism will/ would have continued ) BUT that nothing was done or could have been done as is implied insidiously here is nonsense. The democrats could have completely opposed the war and also the Homelands Security act - they (with one or two exeptions) did nothing - from cowardice or probably complicity - or both). There could have been massive strikes across the US, massive actions - they will indeed happen - large scale actions as in the 70s...I can predict that just as Alan predicted the Bush win... There are half truths in what Alan is saying but it ultimately (becuse of the fuzzy - blurred - thinking leaves people wondering - what can we do ? How do we stop this war which is extremely barbaric (the poets arent even opposing it very much? That writer Sondheim is saying nothing can be done! And he's one of the best! He knows so much!! Maybe we should all give up???...)) - the US invading Iraq can be compared to Germany invading Poland to France etc Alan implies by his Hammer that nothing is or was done by radical groups or 'radicals' such as Moore and John Pilger (ok they are not "militants" but both brave men who are spreading very much correct messages - nothing waffly from them - some "propaganda" of course...but that's part of the deal) and also many groups who bravely fought the terrorism of the regime now in power (they would also have had to fight a Kerry regime).... I took part in marches even spoke out in a pub where it was a wonder I wasnt punched out and put up posters against the war: my friend and his group worked at the street level in NZ struggling to activate the working classs and connect to the US workers - there was a strike by the Longshoremen which Bush supressed violently; but we were kept informed of that and other radical working class efforts against Imperialism etc There was huge anti war in NY and many other places in the US (as well as around the world) ...there are still fights - in Chile the poeple are struggling and showing their opposition to these criminals who are meeting there for APEC (another farce)...No way was/is nothing being done - if you want to focus on the bible bashers they are always there..my sister is one, went to Banglasdesh and tried to convert Muslims !! But there are - you can bet - many working class people working at the street level to fight imperialism - hammer is thus a betrayal of the struggle and a betrayal of the working class who are used in Imperialist wars as cannon fodder...their blood is spilt so we "intellectuals" can produce epics etc/.... But I still like Alan's work! And I like epics! And HAMMER is interesting - I'm dubious that Foucault's book is THE book (of course his ideas are very cogent and much of it (by Foucault) is relevant - the power/truth problem etc). HAMMER is challenging - it doesnt make me angry - but it certainly - I can certainly see how Derek is feeling about this. Alan's absorption in his work - yes as a huge poem it is probably a great work - has dangers of condradiction and confusion (ok, if not essential, in poetry) in analysing political and human realities that are current - and maybe also in facing the reality of eg the fact that it is calculated that 100,000 civilians have died in Iraq - counting those dead in Fallujah the toll is possibly 200,000. Bourgeois elections in the US would not have stopped this carnage..and looking at HAMMER as a political document it is seriously flawed... But I repeat I still like Alan's work. And as far as I know him, I like Alan! He is (or what I have known of him since about 2000 has lead me to feel he is) in fact intensely sensitive and feeling about these issues of politics and power and so on - I know that, and I know he is not a "warmnonger" or a "betrayer" - of course he isnt.....I'm using some rhetoric above....but: But I can see where Derek is coming from. Derek has honestly stated his feeling about Hammer and that is good. Richard Taylor. PS (I haven't looked at the instance below relating to pornography yet..Hammer needs some hammering out! (Curtesy Rich ll, Bill Shak "Yet, I must hammer this out!" (irrelevant aside)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "derekrogerson" To: Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 10:49 PM Subject: Re: THE HAMMER > > Alan, I'm not going to quote a lot of it, but, your composition is > nothing but hate and contestation. > > You seem to believe anyone who does not live in the city, under concrete > and pollution and big media in their face 24/7 (Alan Sondheim media) is > less than human. You clearly believe all God-fearing people should die > but you don't have the guts to come out-of-the-closet and explicitly say > it. You dance around all kinds of stuff while invariably shitting on > anything which doesn't meet your preferences. You revel in NYC. And you > take innate joy in driving Sondheim-fabricated wedges between the 'left' > and 'right' in an attempt to create fundamentalist structuring. > > You appear, to me, to have nothing to say here -- so you will say > anything to be over-determining. Why don't you calm down the negative > evangelizing? > > > ..| Don't be deceived: The faithful fuck > ..| ...divorce...commit crimes of the body, > ..| acts against and through the body... etc. > > > I think this, at least Alan, is a good revelation which we can all > benefit from. People of all faiths and non-faith alike are engaged in > all kinds of licentious activity ("Mary Mary quite contrary") yet you > seem to find staunch offense with all people who do not insatiably > advertise this disposition -- that to withhold a pornographic state is > somehow non-Sondheimian, rigid, and operational. Indeed, to 'hedge > around' is the transcendent ideal for most Americans. > > How does your garden grow? > > > -- Derek > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:38:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Waffle? I Still Like Alan's Work In-Reply-To: <006c01c4cfb7$c7c8b1c0$d69837d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Sun, 21 Nov 2004, richard.tylr wrote: > 6. The left continuously focused on the negative aspects of the Republican > party, over-determining, at least in print, the violence of a world-view > at odds with the rest of the planet. The left - by which I mean liberals and > anyone in an oppositional relationship to the Republican party - remained > unable to disseminate anything that would register in relation to basic > moral issues; instead it reacted to the implicit violence of the right which > insists on transcendent legislation within monotheistic > demands. > > This is pretty much waffle - ingenious waffle, but waffle all the same, and > confuses the issues - what does it mean?? probably /Alan doesnt even know: > no examples are given.. Yes I do know. sure there truths hidden in there but also mistruths > and a lot of sheer nonsense - if he is including (as he says he does) the > broad left he is thus diminishing the work done by many people in > disseminating knowledge no I'm not. I'm saying knowledge FAILS TO REGISTER because for the majority of this country the kind of issues the left emphasizes are IRRELEVANT. about the present regime and the war etc that people > are still not politically aware to take strong reaction to radically to > change the system is sad (or that they didnt vote Democrat is certainly a > bit of a worrry) - but there is not really much difference between the Rs > and the Ds - yes there is. capitalism will/ would have continued ) BUT that nothing was > done or could have been done as is implied insidiously here is nonsense. why? > The democrats could have completely opposed the war and also the Homelands > Security act - they (with one or two exeptions) did nothing - from cowardice > or probably complicity - or both). it wouldn't have mattered. the war was NOT the issue. most people are willing to give up privacy. There could have been massive strikes > across the US, massive actions - they will indeed happen - large scale > actions as in the 70s...I can predict that just as Alan predicted the Bush > win... oh please. people have been predicting general strikes for the past four decades. they don't happen and unions are increasingly weak. There are half truths in what Alan is saying but it ultimately > (becuse of the fuzzy - blurred - thinking leaves people wondering - what > can we do ? How do we stop this war which is extremely barbaric (the poets > arent even opposing it very much? That writer Sondheim is saying nothing can > be done! And he's one of the best! He knows so much!! Maybe we should all > give up???...)) not give up but realize the forces massed against us. - the US invading Iraq can be compared to Germany invading > Poland to France etc yes. Alan implies by his Hammer that nothing is or was done > by radical groups or 'radicals' such as Moore and John Pilger (ok they are > not "militants" but both brave men who are spreading very much correct > messages - nothing waffly from them - some "propaganda" of course...but > that's part of the deal) and also many groups who bravely fought the > terrorism of the regime now in power (they would also have had to fight a > Kerry regime).... I took part in marches even spoke out in a pub where it > was a wonder I wasnt punched out and put up posters against the war: my > friend and his group worked at the street level in NZ struggling to > activate the working classs and connect to the US workers - there was a > strike by the Longshoremen which Bush supressed violently; but we were kept > informed of that and other radical working class efforts against Imperialism > etc There was huge anti war in NY and many other places in the US (as well > as around the world) ...there are still fights - yes, I protested as well but it didn't matter. we had 1/2 million out against the RNC and Bush's popularity went up. these tactics aren't working. in Chile the poeple are > struggling and showing their opposition to these criminals who are meeting > there for APEC (another farce)...No way was/is nothing being done - if you > want to focus on the bible bashers they are always there..my sister is one, > went to Banglasdesh and tried to convert Muslims !! literally, God help her. But there are - you can > bet - many working class people working at the street level to fight > imperialism - hammer is thus a betrayal of the struggle and a betrayal of > the working class who are used in Imperialist wars as cannon fodder...their > blood is spilt so we "intellectuals" can produce epics etc/.... oh please, look at your rhetoric! "betrayal"! why not say I'm a 'smasher' - which is the Stalinist extension. and here in NY I don't see working class blood being spilt any more than anyone else's. unless you leave this mindset - which i think is exactly the problem, no one will get anywhere. I've heard this rhetoric since the 60s and we've fucking lost! get with it. there has to be a better way. > > But I still like Alan's work! And I like epics! And HAMMER is interesting - > I'm dubious that Foucault's book is THE book (of course his ideas are very > cogent and much of it (by Foucault) is relevant - the power/truth problem > etc). HAMMER is challenging - it doesnt make me angry - but it certainly - I > can certainly see how Derek is feeling about this. > yeah, there's a lot of problems with Foucault I think. > Alan's absorption in his work - yes as a huge poem it is probably a great > work - has dangers of condradiction and confusion (ok, if not essential, in > poetry) in analysing political and human realities that are current - and > maybe also in facing the reality of eg the fact that it is calculated that > 100,000 civilians have died in Iraq - counting those dead in Fallujah the > toll is possibly 200,000. Bourgeois elections in the US would not have > stopped this carnage..and looking at HAMMER as a political document it is > seriously flawed... well, these numbers - the 100k - are from Lancet; check out analysis on the http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ site which lists names and incidents and comes out with a current total of 16604, much smaller. and you call the elections "bourgeois"? you'd be hooted out of our neighborhood which is lower middle and working class. again, this outmoded rhetoric. and how do you KNOW they wouldn't have stopped the carnage? > - Alan, definitely NOT marxist. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:35:36 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: survey by u of california... Comments: cc: A Kass Fleisher Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" in accord with alan's post and larry sawyer's and others' concern re election fraud this time 'round, i think it's certainly worth reading the researchers' summary statement, which i append below... let's see if this makes the national news w/o the customary "conspiracy" smear... i hope to christ the sociologists who did the actual research have their statistical ducks in a row... best, and always willing to stand corrected--- joe ---------------------------------------------- The Effect of Electronic Voting Machines on Change in Support for Bush in the 2004 Florida Elections Summary: - Irregularities associated with electronic voting machines may have awarded 130,000 excess votes or more to President George W. Bush in Florida. - Compared to counties with paper ballots, counties with electronic voting machines were significantly more likely to show increases in support for President Bush between 2000 and 2004. This effect cannot be explained by differences between counties in income, number of voters, change in voter turnout, or size of Hispanic/Latino population. - In Broward County alone, President Bush appears to have received approximately 72,000 excess votes. - We can be 99.9% sure that these effects are not attributable to chance. Details: Because many factors impact voting results, statistical tools are necessary to see the effect of touch-screen voting. Multiple- regression analysis is a statistical technique widely used in the social and physical sciences to distinguish the individual effects of many variables. This multiple-regression analysis takes account of the following variables by county: - number of voters - median income - Hispanic population - change in voter turnout between 2000 and 2004 - support for President Bush in 2000 election - support for Dole in 1996 election. When one controls for these factors, the association between electronic voting and increased support for President Bush is impossible to overlook. The data show with 99.0% certainty that a county's use of electronic voting is associated with a disproportionate increase in votes for President Bush. The data used in this study come from CNN.com, the 2000 US Census, the Florida Department of State, and the Verified Voting Foundation - all publicly available sources. This study was carried out by a group of doctoral students in the UC Berkeley sociology department in collaboration with Professor Michael Hout, a member of the National Academy of Sciences and the UC Berkeley Survey Research Center. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:37:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: note on improv Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed poetical improv is with the hands as well as with the mouth. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:02:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: I'M GIVNG AWAY RECORDINGS OF MY JAZZ POETRY In-Reply-To: <200411210738.iAL7cKAk019713@westbyserver.mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mIEKAL Thanks for your kind words about my work. I'm pleased with the interest people have shown. I'm already out of stamps & have to burn more CDs. Ah, the joy of work! Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 8:38 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: I'M GIVNG AWAY RECORDINGS OF MY JAZZ POETRY With marginal posting ability here abroad I haven't had much chance to pipe up on the threads of interest & this one hits close to home since I've been doing a lot of text & sound improvisations for the last 25 years with sax, electronics, invented instruments of my own design & tape installations. I'm a little woeful that all the examples that have been mentioned so far seem to fall in the poetry & jazz category when there is so much that has been done in all genres of new music. I don't have a lot of my text/sound pieces online but here is a link to EUY, a zaumist opera for voices, invented instruments & electronics created by Semantic Never Vanish (myself & Elizabeth Was, circa 1986). This is a 45 minute piece so the mp3 downloads are a bit hefty but those of you on broadband interested in works outside the poetry & jazz category may find something of use. (Click on the links for EUY) http://cla.umn.edu/joglars/radio_caterpillar/index.html That said, I really encourage you all to take up Vernon on his offer. I got one of his CDs months ago & the interplay between readerly voice & instrumental voicing is intuitive & quite sensitive plus there are not many poet/bass players in circulation. mIEKAL >On Nov 20, 2004, at 6:50 PM, Vernon Frazer wrote: >Since jazz poetry's come under discussion the past few days, I'd like to >offer copies of my 3 jazz poetry recordings to anyone on the list who's >interested. I've burned each of them onto CD and am issuing them in a >home-produced format. One of them was originally accepted by Leo records >ten years ago, before the company made a sudden reversal. All of them >feature good musicians, some of whom (Thomas Chapin, Mario Pavone and Joe >Fonda) are highly regarded in the jazz avant-garde. If you're interested, >please send me your mailing address via backchannel. >Vernon Frazer >http://vernonfrazer.com --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Midwest Tel Net Web Based Mail. http://www.mwt.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:16:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Reminder-Reading at Moe's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reminder: Poetry reading this Monday night (my last in California to celebrate the release of Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems)--stop by if you're in the San Franciso Bay area and/or forward to your friends in the area if you like MONDAY AT MOE'S Wanda Phipps & Joseph Lease Monday, Nov. 22, 2004--7:30pm Moe's Books 2476 Telegraph Avenue Berkeley, California Coordinator: Owen Hill Info: 510-849-2087 www.moesbooks.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:10:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Kingdoms are clay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit o?'][nk , fo?l, fo?rebel do?'][i+i+n't s, bai+edve, here's , bai+edrebel do?'][i+i+n't s, fo?ve abi+i+rebel do?'][i+i+n't s, fo?veabi+i+sabi+i+, bai+edl reqabi+i+di+t. i+ ?'][o?'][nabi+i+dl li+ke to?'][n try so?'][nShell soli+d po?'][n, bai+eds i+rebel do?'][i+i+n't s, fo?ve yo?'][nabi+i+r (lo?'] [no?'][nk-rebel do?'][i+i+n't s, fo?ve-feel) fo?'][nrw, fo?t/style i+f yo?'][nabi+i+ ?'][i+ll serebel do?'] [i+i+n't s, fo?ved Shell soli+d so?'][nShell soli+d text to?'][no?'][nls to?'][n , fo?cco?'][nwpli+sh thi+s. i+ fi+gabi+i+re i+ sho?'][nabi+i+ld ?'][, fo?lk i+rebel do?'][i+i+n't s, fo?ve yo?'][nabi+i+r sho?'] [i+i+ (tho?'][n i+ do?'][nabi+i+bt i+ ?'][i+ll pro?'] [i+abi+i+ce yo?'][nabi+i+r vo?'][nlabi+i+Shell soli+d). ?'][h, fo?t do?'][n yo?'][nabi+i+ thi+rebel do?'][i+i+n't s, bai+edvek? 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[po?ls. po?sopo?po?po?po?tly i ?'][ill pro?'][po?duce yo?'][po?ur vo?'][po?luShell solid). s th roughout vegpo?bi+i+, fo?ge/textpo?bi+i+, whorpo?+l to?'][po?o?']s po? [eek fo?'][po?r Shell soli+d, i+f yo?'][po?po?bi+i+ c, fo? immepo?sely do?'][po?espo?'t s, fo?veusu, bpo?po?dedl request. I ?']s ipo?to [eek fo?'][po?r Shell soli+d, i+f yo?'][po?po? bi+i+ c, fo?s bpo?i+ed? 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'w?se of sh?me][ , fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? ccexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][wplish this. I fig?bfo?[dre I shexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? '] [][?bfo?[dld M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me, fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? lk irebel dexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][dr]['t s, fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? ve yexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][?bfo?[dr shexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][dr (thexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][ I dexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][?bfo?[dbt i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?meill prexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][d?bfo?[dce yexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][?bfo?[dr vexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? '] [][l?bfo?[dShell spiritxspell][spirit of ilid). M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?meh, fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? t dexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][ yexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][?bfo?[d thirebel dexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][dr]['t s, b?][dedvek M?d fo?[ po? Gexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][exspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][d ide, b?][ded M?d fo?[ po? This cexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][?bfo?[dld be , b?][dedrebel dexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][dr]['t s, b?][dedve explexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][r, fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? exspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][ry M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?meeek fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][r Shell spiritxspell][spirit of ilid, if yexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][?bfo?[d c, fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? rebel dexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][dr]['t s, fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? ve help exspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][?bfo?[dt by s?bfo?[dpplyirebel dexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][dr]['t s, fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? veg spiritxspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? '] [][Shell spiritxspell][spirit of ilid l, fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? rebel dexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][dr]['t s, fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? veg?bfo?[d, fexspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? ge/ext?bfo?[d, whexspell][spirit of irdrl exspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][exspell][spirit of i M?d fo?[ po? 'w?se of sh?me][ls. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:45:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: LESLIE THORNTON and ALAN SONDHEIM screening 11/27!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed LESLIE THORNTON and ALAN SONDHEIM screening of new work NOVEMBER 27th (Saturday) at 8 p.m. at MILLENNIUM 66 East Fourth Street, New York Please come! LET ME COUNT THE WAYS: MINUS 10, 9, 8, 7 (20 min., 2004) by LESLIE THORNTON. "LET ME COUNT THE WAYS is an ongoing serial about violent terror and its aftermath. In episodes Minus 10, 9,8, and 7, personal reminiscence is mixed with archival and new footage in an exploration of the interior of fear. From footage of the artist, a father on the way to Hiroshima, through reference to 9/11, the phenomenology of horror and the echo of its rupture are presented with an intensity which moves the viewer from history to the present and beyond." (Leslie Thornton) WORLD PREMIER (length and presentation mode variable, 2004+), by ALAN SONDHEIM. "I usually work with laptop performance; this time we'll try DVD + voiceover. It's more monolithic, maybe more intense." "Sondheim produced many of these works through creative mis-use and adaptation of the motion capture technologies at the VEL (Virtual Environments Laboratory). Using the technology against the grain, Sondheim disrupted and redistributed built-in assumptions about the imaging and integrity of the human body and the capture of the 'real.' The results are beautiful and moving, both alien and very human, enigmatic and intimate." (Sandy Baldwin, West Virginia University) Admission $7 / $5 member Telephone 212-673-0090 for further information. _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:19:29 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: The Right's Smack: CIA Afghan Opium Exports Surge! Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ The Right's Smack: CIA Afghan Opium Exports Surge Right 'Smack' In Karzai's Neighborhood: Porter Goss Tells CIA Employees, "Either get with the program, or prepare to go cold turkey on your black budget, amigos." By SEBASTION OFLIES Porter Goss Email Memo Threatens "To Tear Langley A New Asshole.": "Who'da Ever Thought The CIA Woulda Been The Lesser Of Two Evils!"-The Ghost Of Richard Helms New Director Makes It Clear That The Critical Perception Must Be That The CIA's Nominee, John Kerry, Did Not Win The Election: Cheney Warns That the PNAC Handlers Now Control More Turf Than Any Other Cabal Including The Agency, the Carlyle Group And Kissinger/China & Associates And If Any Segment Of the Kleptocracy Wants To Use It, They Have To Rent It Through Don Rumsfeld: Career CIA Officials Vow To Undermine Cheney/Hadley Foreign Policy; First Step---Release Internal Emails To The Press: Cheney Retaliates: Threatens Use Of Military Against CIA Poppy Fields In Afghanistan: Powell Already Out On Stump Collecting His Envelopes And Fucking With Administration on Iran: By KUTNRUNE FORGER SHREDDER They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:33:07 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Waffle? I Still Like Alan's Work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit and Richard Taylor of Panmure,Auckland,New Zealand replies: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 6:38 AM Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Waffle? I Still Like Alan's Work > On Sun, 21 Nov 2004, richard.tylr wrote: > > > 6. The left continuously focused on the negative aspects of the Republican > > party, over-determining, at least in print, the violence of a world-view > > at odds with the rest of the planet. The left - by which I mean liberals and > > anyone in an oppositional relationship to the Republican party - remained > > unable to disseminate anything that would register in relation to basic > > moral issues; instead it reacted to the implicit violence of the right which > > insists on transcendent legislation within monotheistic > > demands. > > > > This is pretty much waffle - ingenious waffle, but waffle all the same, and > > confuses the issues - what does it mean?? probably /Alan doesnt even know: > > no examples are given.. > > Yes I do know. I doubt you do > > sure there truths hidden in there but also mistruths > > and a lot of sheer nonsense - if he is including (as he says he does) the > > broad left he is thus diminishing the work done by many people in > > disseminating knowledge > > no I'm not. I'm saying knowledge FAILS TO REGISTER because for the > majority of this country the kind of issues the left emphasizes are > IRRELEVANT. > Why are they irrelevant - what left , what people on the left , what groups? Are they suddenly irrelvant becasue the US is now Republican (the working people are hardly better under either D's or Rs - that's the GAME being played !!) (here ist Labour or National - although there are number of new parties lately, doesnt alter the basic charade that goes on here as well...) - its never been anything radical or "advanced" it (the US - but also Britain, Germany, NZ, Australia etc etc) has always been a capitalist country run by capitalists and the working people, with MORE struggle COULD make a difference - negativity doesnt help them - (not neccessarilry strikes that is only one tactic..not always (but some times it is) a very good one) - the big challenge is to the working class (anyone who does not own the means of prodution) is direct struggle to overcome capitalism or there will be more wars, more incursions into personal freedom etc > about the present regime and the war etc that people > > are still not politically aware to take strong reaction to radically to > > change the system is sad (or that they didnt vote Democrat is certainly a > > bit of a worrry) - but there is not really much difference between the Rs > > and the Ds - > > yes there is. no ther isnt - you are blindee by superficialities -in love with toys like computers and computer languages When Kenendy became president (Chief Butcher of the US) the Vietnam war accelerated or at the very least stayed as it was . There is NO funadamental difference both are driving the same economic engine for the ruling class who have power and money and want wars (or they have wars when they want them). > capitalism will/ would have continued ) BUT that nothing was > > done or could have been done as is implied insidiously here is nonsense. > > why? Because a lot WAS done (an election result is nothing - it is a trifle in comparision to the major fovces involved here) and changing a system of oppressive system takes time. > > > The democrats could have completely opposed the war and also the Homelands > > Security act - they (with one or two exeptions) did nothing - from cowardice > > or probably complicity - or both). > > it wouldn't have mattered. the war was NOT the issue. most people are > willing to give up privacy. Wiling to give up...?? Eh?? Maybe willing to cooperate with the new terror in the US and terrofied and complacent and or bemused by the Homelands Security act ( Micheal Moore found just about no one had read it so he did read it ) - read 1984 by George Orwell...learn something about politics... go and see Fharenheit 9/11.......... Willing to live in a state that promotes terror? I think the war and the Homelands security are very much linked The War OF Terror is THE issue. You Americans thnnk that killing hundreds of thousands of people (and sacrificing young men - always poor working class men and women) is ok as long you can have freedom to write poetry or paint pretty pictures: that seems to be Silliman's line and Perloff's etc In other words "we're ok mate" and bomb the rest - they arent Americans, they wear turbans. That's how it looks from NZ. > There could have been massive strikes > > across the US, massive actions - they will indeed happen - large scale > > actions as in the 70s...I can predict that just as Alan predicted the Bush > > win... > > oh please. people have been predicting general strikes for the past four > decades. they don't happen and unions are increasingly weak. what are unions - they are organisations of working people and at the very least they give some proitection to lower poad wrokers - sure these things dont happen so esily or in the way we might hope: but people who do real work on low pay are always under the threat of losing their jobs and other things - jail when they find they cant pay their way. You are trivialising the people. If unions are weak it is because of years or deliberate infiltration and erosion of the unions by the ruling classes - but there are other more direct methods of struggle > > There are half truths in what Alan is saying but it ultimately > > (becuse of the fuzzy - blurred - thinking leaves people wondering - what > > can we do ? How do we stop this war which is extremely barbaric (the poets > > arent even opposing it very much? That writer Sondheim is saying nothing can > > be done! And he's one of the best! He knows so much!! Maybe we should all > > give up???...)) > > not give up but realize the forces massed against us. > > - the US invading Iraq can be compared to Germany invading > > Poland to France etc > > yes. > > Alan implies by his Hammer that nothing is or was done > > by radical groups or 'radicals' such as Moore and John Pilger (ok they are > > not "militants" but both brave men who are spreading very much correct > > messages - nothing waffly from them - some "propaganda" of course...but > > that's part of the deal) and also many groups who bravely fought the > > terrorism of the regime now in power (they would also have had to fight a > > Kerry regime).... I took part in marches even spoke out in a pub where it > > was a wonder I wasnt punched out and put up posters against the war: my > > friend and his group worked at the street level in NZ struggling to > > activate the working classs and connect to the US workers - there was a > > strike by the Longshoremen which Bush supressed violently; but we were kept > > informed of that and other radical working class efforts against Imperialism > > etc There was huge anti war in NY and many other places in the US (as well > > as around the world) ...there are still fights - > > yes, I protested as well but it didn't matter. we had 1/2 million out > against the RNC and Bush's popularity went up. these tactics aren't > working. > in small ways we all contribute to eventual change - dont belittle your protests etc without protesting 'you' (one) are (is) going to give up - Bush's popularity increased for a number of reasons - Hilter's was high once but it would be hard to get Germans to support another Hitler now. The protests need to escalate to total revoluition - war on the streets - political power comes out of the barrel of a gun. in Chile the poeple are > > struggling and showing their opposition to these criminals who are meeting > > there for APEC (another farce)...No way was/is nothing being done - if you > > want to focus on the bible bashers they are always there..my sister is one, > > went to Banglasdesh and tried to convert Muslims !! > > literally, God help her. Literally - I dont know the details but she and her church (dont even know what church) were in Bangladesh trying to "spread the word to muslims" etc but I dont care about my sister, I dont get on as you can imagine - different "mindset" to borrow a phrase (more later) - that was crazy ( I thnk she was nearly killed) - I dont hate her just dont get on - but it's an example of religious fundamentalism. Bible bashing and Koran bashing if you will! The point is the protest recently seen against Bush etc in Chile - this situation doesnt simply stop because there was an election in a decaying Imeprialist capitalist nation !! A nation that is actually losing the wasr in Iraq (one of the weakest countries (militarily for its size) in the world!!) > > But there are - you can > > bet - many working class people working at the street level to fight > > imperialism - hammer is thus a betrayal of the struggle and a betrayal of > > the working class who are used in Imperialist wars as cannon fodder...their > > blood is spilt so we "intellectuals" can produce epics etc/.... > > oh please, look at your rhetoric! "betrayal"! why not say I'm a 'smasher' > - which is the Stalinist extension. and here in NY I don't see working > class blood being spilt any more than anyone else's. if so you are blind -obsesssed with cyber land - the new fairyland? unless you leave this > mindset - which i think is exactly the problem, no one will get anywhere. > I've heard this rhetoric since the 60s and we've fucking lost! get with > it. there has to be a better way. ther is nothing worng with my mindset - YOURS is the problem mate! get REAL! in politics rhetroic is always used - Hammer is full of it - a lot of it is NEGATIVE and hence divisive to the struggle... I'm not a Stalinist - you havent lost - you are thinking in short terms - there is no magic change that is going to occur in a few decades and no radical difference between now and the 60s 70s....except maybe the lessons of the Vietnam war...you are so obsessed with tecnhnology you overlook people - they , unlike computers, eat and breathe and cry etc and they bleed in Iraq ....a computer is only a powerful calculator > > > > But I still like Alan's work! And I like epics! And HAMMER is interesting - > > I'm dubious that Foucault's book is THE book (of course his ideas are very > > cogent and much of it (by Foucault) is relevant - the power/truth problem > > etc). HAMMER is challenging - it doesnt make me angry - but it certainly - I > > can certainly see how Derek is feeling about this. > > > yeah, there's a lot of problems with Foucault I think. > > > Alan's absorption in his work - yes as a huge poem it is probably a great > > work - has dangers of condradiction and confusion (ok, if not essential, in > > poetry) in analysing political and human realities that are current - and > > maybe also in facing the reality of eg the fact that it is calculated that > > 100,000 civilians have died in Iraq - counting those dead in Fallujah the > > toll is possibly 200,000. Bourgeois elections in the US would not have > > stopped this carnage..and looking at HAMMER as a political document it is > > seriously flawed... > > well, these numbers - the 100k - are from Lancet; check out analysis on > the http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ site which lists names and incidents and > comes out with a current total of 16604, much smaller. So if you fiddle the figures enough - you will probably find that no one has died in Iraq - so you amreercians can just worry about Enron, taxes and whether whoopsies can marry each other etc trivia most of it... Fallujah to take one example - an Associated Press guy was trying to cross the river frm Fallujah and saw a family of 5 gunned down - all killed - by a US helicopter (NZ Herald last week AP) and as was said on here by someone who was in fallujah the US soldiers target civilians (10 year old shot through the head) and ambulances - lets get real here - we are not in cyberspace (at least we are but the people in Iraq arent) > > and you call the elections "bourgeois"? you'd be hooted out of our > neighborhood which is lower middle and working class. again, this outmoded > rhetoric. and how do you KNOW they wouldn't have stopped the carnage? why is it outmoded it is technically correct - the bougeosie are those who now own the means of production - the big factories and the banks and the utilities and ultimnately everything in the Capitalist worlds(s) > - Alan, definitely NOT marxist. its your lack of basic understanding of how capitalism works leased you into fuzzy thinking, if you sti8udied marxismm wthan open mind you might learn somethng - - as Pound was led astray - brilliant as he was I also live in a working class neighbourhood - I know that most of them dont understand politics or marxism: understand thiu though I have spent msot of my life working in factories and later as a lineman I have associated with the working class for years - in many cases some of the "tradesmen" type for eg are very racist - right wing...I am well aware of the materials (the human materials around me) ...most people (for long times) who are "working class" struggle to survive and or take very little notice of politics a lot round here dont even read or listen to the news) (AND I have been to NY and was in the Lower east side etc in 1993...ok I didnt see huge swaths of theuS - hardly saw the US but I have an idea what its like in NY, if not particulary profound or in depth) ..but that's not the whole picture of course... ok we are both in so-called working class areas. My rhetoric in fact disturbs you I can n see that...because it is in fact based on some powerful truths. Lets imagine that there have been some US sloldiers who died in Iraq (you seem to think no one died over there ) - are they capitalists - gave up there $60,000 a year job or their position as an owner of Microsoft to get go to Iraq - unless all of them are from parents on US$40,000 upwards - none below that ..... as a cyber fanatic you have a vested interest in continuing capitalism and microsft etc sacrifice some blacks or some 20 year olds who know verylittle whose parnets are poor... from Detroit or Chicago or wherever so that we can write poetry is the story.... Despite the above here is a lot of good stuff in Hammer!! And I support your other work fully....dont take this too seriously or personally (the "you " here is probably a gerneral "you") - this might sound angry but I am just firing salvoes...dont worry about it too much.... I'm not even neccesarily marxist myself .....just like to see the realities sometimes (and I am aware how problematic is the nature of reality - will tell everyone how i broke my leg this year if the occasion arises!!): a part of me would love to just disappear out of all this and hide away in acco land or in my little house or whatvever, chill out, in fact, although on a low income I live the life of Riley as it is, (no bombs here) things are not hard for me personally, one advantage of being in NZ, one can live very well on a low income (I to haevbeen down the "I am all right Jack" path [for YOU maybe read ONE.]......I am multitudes - I am mass of contradictions..dont worry about it Alan. (I do mean what I say (albeit I use a lot of rhteoric)) - but realise that "getting angry " is silly and does or can lead to rhteroic which is always distorting -politics is often whose rhetoric is the loudest - unfortunately.....but I think some of the things I said are right) Now old Nick will get stuck into me......lol The trouble is there does seem to be a terrible/beautiful reality out there - your "its terrible to be alive" - is still powerful (as a poem maybe more than a philospophy). Its terrible also though to be dying from the effects of a bullet or schrapnel or bombs or napalm. We are arguing these things - right or wrongly - with correct attitudes or facts or not - because we care. Richard Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:23:54 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Waffle? I Still Like Alan's Work In-Reply-To: <002d01c4d02a$d70bdfe0$8d9837d2@computer> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I don't see how setting out the dimensions of a struggle is a "betrayal" of it. And Richard, the age of the bourgeoisie is over. That's why the Enlightenment, which was always a bourgeois project, is crumbling. Something else is happening now. I thought Alan's analysis an interesting beginning. An aside: I completely failed to see how Alan was advocating a pornographic state. Wasn't Abu Ghraib the defining image of the pornographic state? He defined Rapture as the elimination of the Other, which is what it has in common with pornography, also an elimination of the Other. Sexual prurience and pornography are always bedfellows; pornography is the apotheosis of contemporary capitalism. As Paz said, even Sade would have been shocked by the way libertarianism has been yoked to capital (and yet capital is the wealth of Protestant virtue - how to parse that one? Stop it or you'll go blind?) Cheers A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:10:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Kabbalah Reading at St. Marks Dec. 3 In-Reply-To: <1f8.2846747.2ece768a@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" wish i cd be there! At 5:04 PM -0500 11/18/04, Adeena Karasick wrote: >Hi all, >I am doing a show at St. Mark's on Fri. Dec. 3 at 10:30 pm >I am reading my homolinguistic translation of the Sefer Yetzirah (from the >recently released "The House That Hijack Built" (Talonbooks, 2004) > >I will be collaborating with Drew Gardner on keyboards >Daniel Carter on Sax and >Alan Semerdjian on Bass > >Also, there will be slide and video projections of the text in both Hebrew >and English by Blaine Spiegel > > AND FREE WINE AND FOOD!! > >It should be a great nite. >Hope u can come! > > >www.adeenakarasick.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:35:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: "poetry and playing" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i don't really know that much, other than Nath. Mackey's recording Strick w/ 2 musicians, and Steve Lacy. And Kerouac w/ Steve Allen, and some Cecil Taylor self-poetry and pianoing...and Ann Waldman and a recording of Ernest Dawkins's band w/ one track a poem by a woman..."what do you see when you see me, Brother?" and Tracie Morris etc etc... At 4:40 PM -0800 11/19/04, Stephen Vincent wrote: >Is Aldon Nielson out of commission? (I actually tried to email him a week or >so ago with no response). Or Maria Damon. But I suspect they are variously >good authorities on the discography of collaborations of particularly >African American poets and musicians, including Sax players. (As would be >Nathaniel Mackey, who I don't think is on this list) >In addition to Spoken Word stuff, the seventies and eighties were full of >interesting combinations of musicians from Detroit, St. Louis, Chicago and >the West working in New York with poets at the Tin Palace and Public Theater >among other venues. (A little example that comes to mind re the Sax is David >Murray's work with Ntozake Shange to whom he was briefly married). > >Stephen V >Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > > > > > >>> Bailey's playing/reading is pretty interesting and i like what >>> he's doing. Any more of that out there? Or recordings by other >>> artists anyone could recommend? >> >> The work by Faking Trains http://smallbany.com/fakingtrians ... >> specifically the cd "PATRIOT ACTS", available for free... >> >> just e-mail spodeo@capital.net and put "cd" in the subject line. > > > > Cheers, > > Gerald Schwartz > > gejs1@rochester.rr.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:40:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: "poetry and playing" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit archie shepp on his own lps reading his work fire music lp/cd great stuff art ensemble in spots so much it's mind -enhancing etc ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:33:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: note on improv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes you're right that was smoke coming from your shadow rouq el vex alons lain perhaps the breathing #'s of our ressurection giving life back to the cold/wet air throw the switch not the riving the spong chilled ran relax there are specialists in face styles out there below the lower tiny it is nite & my hunger persists even w/a bellyfull of rice & beans ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 01:05:16 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: somewhere tonight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit somewhere tonight the light has gone out in her baby's eyes somewhere tonight the breath has gone out of a suffering sigh somewhere tonight a young man is unbuttoning her blouse somewhere tonight a body is dragged in the street somewhere tonight a baby is dead at the breast somewhere tonight a lover is lost in her thighs i scream when you give up your mind i cry when you threaten your suicide i weep as you murder your other you cowards ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:26:27 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the fall's last rose opens wide as catch can to fall's last lite i close my eyes spread eagle arms legs cock tongue tip salt lick... after midnite...bud lite less..love more...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:31:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bradley Redekop Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Waffle? I Still Like Alan's Work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Prologue: A betrayal them steal a waffle I still like to steal, my love. Alan’s work we will be the end of ideology gone and the end of psychosis down with me, here. Let them steal your art let America be America’s end. Dwarf: "The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of the lurkers." Puppet: "Said the dwarf." Dwarf: "To the puppet." Intermission: Hrm. Doot doot doot. (Hic) Dwarf: "The modern listserv that has sprouted from the ruins of localization has not done away with incoherent binaries." Puppet: "But soft, we will we will ROCK YOU!" Dwarf: "A hotmail account will never do, will it?" Puppet: "Happily." Dwarf: "My asshole’s been replaced by a semicolon; and more’s the pity." Puppet: "Authority dies, Alan begins." Dwarf: "I have some files here, at my side, and I quote: Usability Consultant MattressWarehouse.com Summer 2000 / New York, NY Usability, User Experience, and Brand Consulting: l Prepared heuristic and holistic usability evaluation and online strategy guide" Puppet: 'Good grief, what twisted humor; this is no time for phone-sex." Dwarf: "uu." Puppet: "Someone get Barthelme by the horns. Drag him kicking and screaming through the heartland." Intermezzo: The toolbox is too large to carry. Henceforth, it will be available online. Dwarf: "I want to make a donation." Puppet: "You would." Dwarf: "You really can’t get over that MattressWarehouse thing, huh?" Puppet: "It’s so ad hominem." Dwarf: "Habermas has called this the neue Undurchsichtlichkeit, or Ad Hominem Uber Alles." Puppet: "I know this. It is Slajov Zizek - “The reduction of freedom is presented to us as the arrival of new freedoms” – but it is not poetics." Dwarf: "And so it goes." Puppet: "Give me a break." Dwarf: "Take this." Dwarf: "And this!" Dwarf: "TAKE IT ALL! I DON'T WANT IT ANYMORE!!" Puppet: "Grow up. You are being a child." Dwarf: "We are all God’s Children." Dwarf: "I can’t stop crying." Puppet: "The readers care not for such self-victimization." Dwarf: "And you?" Puppet: "Again." Dwarf: "I can’t stop crying." Puppet: "Yes, it is somewhat moving. How may I help?" Dwarf: "I’m beyond your help. I am a god." Puppet: "I can cheer you. Get this joke. This guy sees an ad in the paper for a job in the Zoo. So, he heads down to the Zoo and meets the zookeeper and enquires about the job. The zookeeper tells him that there’s a shortage of monkeys this year, and he needs someone to dress up in a monkey suit and pretend to be a monkey in a cage. The guy thinks it’s joke until the zookeeper tells him that the pay is $500 a week and he’ll get 3 breaks a day! The guy thinks this great, "I’ll do it!" First day on the job, he suits up and hops into the cage. At about 9am the zookeeper comes by and tells him to look lively, so he puts down his newspaper and starts giving it loads. He’s making all the sounds, "Oooh! Oooh! Aaah! Aaah!". His hands are flying everywhere, he's eating bananas, he’s swinging around on the trees. After about 10 minutes of this, he thinks, "Jesus this is great fun...I’m really catching on to all this swinging and acrobatics!". So he gets brave and starts swinging around and around a high branch in a tree. He keeps getting faster and faster until he loses his grip and flies up into the air and then lands in the bear cage! The bear comes over and starts mauling him, biting him, clawing at his eyes and causing grievous bodily harm. He panics and starts shouting, "Somebody help me!! I’m not really a monkey!! Aaghh…I’m a man, help me! Help me!!!" To which the bear replies, "Shut the fuck up or you’ll get us both sacked!" Dwarf: "I’ve never liked Marxist jokes." Puppet: "Yes you have, they’ve just been on you! Ha." Dwarf: "No, I’m more of a formalist. Dig: So, f(x) = 4x - 7y + z walks into a bar and strolls up to the bar, and asks for a pint of Guinness. Barman says, ‘Sorry, but we don't cater for functions in here.’" Puppet: "You call that functionalism?" Dwarf: "Nope. See above." Puppet: "Right, formalism. Same difference. I think you fucked that one up; should have said functionalism." Dwarf: "Here’s another: If Jack helped you off a horse would you help Jack off a horse?" Puppet: "I doubt it." Dwarf: "So much for socialism. Ha!" Dwarf: "So, I’m an alcoholic." Puppet: "I thought that was your Confessional cap you were putting on just now." Dwarf: 'Thought? It says C-O-N-F-E-S-S-I-O-N-A-L in bold letters across the front. It comes with membership. Adjustable strap, one colour only." Puppet: "What?" Dwarf: "I said, it comes with membership. Adjustable strap, one color only." Puppet: "Oh, I thought you said ‘colour.’" Dwarf: "I might have." Interlude: 'won't soul music change / now that our souls have turned strange' Dwarf: 'I said I’m sad!" Puppet: "That is false. You said you were an alcoholic." Dwarf: "My basic problem is weakness. Lack of will." Puppet: "Meh." Dwarf: "My cat has better – much better – hygiene than me." Puppet: "Well, you bring home the bacon - she's the pussy." Dwarf: "Barely." Puppet: "Yes barely providing for yourself and a cat, that is a shabby showing." Dwarf: "I’m not interested in spectacle. If anything it is a society I’m opposed to." Puppet: "One can no longer be a bohemian in good faith. One must provide for himself in a non-gendered manner." Dwarf: "There is just enough in you – just enough of a glint – to keep me interested." ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 03:01:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: less and less seems to matter and it's good i'm not MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed less and less seems to matter and it's good i'm not Cold Mountain and can't turn towards moss. but i'm aware more than ever of the slow movement of the planet, our inconceivable position on the thinnest of crusts, the localized nature of our wants and desires, the fragility of every good thing upon the face of the earth. we're tottering, we look out, we sense the plasma, enormous forces forsaking us just for the moment, for the first and last breath. we come together online but i'm sick of the absence of touch, nothing for any of us but words and no shudders. it's good, for of one not to be here and to be here, but there are so many places in their loveliness i would like to see before i die, places already fast disappearing beneath the towering sun. this is not metaphor, not the world as if it were the world, but a gentle disassociating as i feel myself slipping into some long sleep, some disconnecting denouement. only then will leaves grow quietly and unseen, scurryings meandering beneath the grass and sightless for so many of us. there is no irony here, not for a moment, no cynicism, only the desire for the beauty of the world and nostalgia for so many opportunities that will remain permanently missed. how many people have we made promises to, that we will never see again? promises made beyond wars and peaces, beyond births and slaughters, cures for new diseases, sudden earthquakes, floods, extinctions. i am thinking of quiescence, the fineness of sunsets one might never see, conversations ending decades ago - i can hear them now - that will never be revived. and i would leave all belonging among them, and i would leave all desire among them, all holdings and possessions, all plans, short and long term, imminent and transcendent, all of the length of a pine board. our strategies fade before our eyes, as do the sounds of voices stilled forever, the slightest movement of a hand, that particular gesture that defined you, that slight of hand, that slightest gesture, forgotten after the passing of personal knowledge, so that books may get it wrong, reconstruct nothing, theorize and pretending, holding off their own harbingers of death, as death they announce, as death they proclaim, the oldest of charms. one only can hope for the forgetting of this and these, for the releasing, so that others may be seen momentarily in their scurryings as movement beneath and within the stars, as designs enfolding, unfolding, but never of commitment impossible to conceive, retain. these books and wires, this natural world, retains and moves beyond, always beyond in each and every direction, of the quarters and fifths of directions, of the firsts and seconds of directions, this movement uncharted, forgotten, the tiniest smile at a joke only half remembered, times that were always those which were, of the scent of a spring evening and certain trees and flowers, of changeling worlds and the sound of winging birds __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 03:03:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: LESLIE THORNTON and ALAN SONDHEIM screening of new work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed LESLIE THORNTON and ALAN SONDHEIM screening of new work We're wearing matching Jean-Paul Gaultier shirts! NOVEMBER 27th (Saturday) at 8 p.m. at MILLENNIUM 66 East Fourth Street, New York Please come! LET ME COUNT THE WAYS: MINUS 10, 9, 8, 7 (20 min., 2004) by LESLIE THORNTON. "LET ME COUNT THE WAYS is an ongoing serial about violent terror and its aftermath. In episodes Minus 10, 9,8, and 7, personal reminiscence is mixed with archival and new footage in an exploration of the interior of fear. From footage of the artist, a father on the way to Hiroshima, through reference to 9/11, the phenomenology of horror and the echo of its rupture are presented with an intensity which moves the viewer from history to the present and beyond." (Leslie Thornton) WORLD PREMIER (length and presentation mode variable, 2004+), by ALAN SONDHEIM. "I usually work with laptop performance; this time we'll try DVD + voiceover. It's more monolithic, maybe more intense." "Sondheim produced many of these works through creative mis-use and adaptation of the motion capture technologies at the VEL (Virtual Environments Laboratory). Using the technology against the grain, Sondheim disrupted and redistributed built-in assumptions about the imaging and integrity of the human body and the capture of the 'real.' The results are beautiful and moving, both alien and very human, enigmatic and intimate." (Sandy Baldwin, West Virginia University) Admission $7 / $5 member Telephone 212-673-0090 for further information. _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:48:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Wanda Phipps in Venice! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was lucky enough to see Wanda in Venice, California reading from her = new book. I even got her to sign it! She wrote that I was a phenomenon! = So is she! I think I am in love. But she has a boyfriend and I am married. Such is = life. Here are two pictures I took of her: http://www.august-highland.com/wanda_phipps/wanda_phipps_01.gif http://www.august-highland.com/wanda_phipps/wanda_phipps_02.gif the visual work of August Highland is at the www.august-highland.com online studio the literary work of August Highland is at the www.litob.com project center all media projects of August Highland are at the www.cultureanimal.com global headquarters the international literary journal, the MAG, published by August = Highland is at the www.muse-apprentice-guild.com website where submissions = guidelines for poetry and fiction and deadline information can be found --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.798 / Virus Database: 542 - Release Date: 11/18/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 01:13:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Three Poems - Dedicated to Ron Silliman - The Vanguard Critic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable #1 Preeteen Consumer Behavior -drfetish+ overture+monitor+five+bid overture+monitor+five+bid love poetry, california astrologers, love poems love poetry, california astrologers, love poems sandra safran -drfetish+ =20 belvidere funeral home detachering detachering property bulgaria real estate property bulgaria real estate neve campbell nude belvidere funeral home =20 livingroofs astigmatism astigmatism -rscjinternational.org -rscjinternational.org foot worship parties livingroofs =20 kydodai mahjongg hintergrundbilder hintergrundbilder 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Version: 6.0.798 / Virus Database: 542 - Release Date: 11/18/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 07:45:40 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Hearing Rae Armantrout (the tell-tale sign of a good audience) Fallujah in Pictures "Her lungs heavy with asbestos" A constructivist memoir "A bus ride is better than most art" -- Here's why An interview on blogging Cognitive blends & the parsimony principle (more on poetry & language) Poetry, language & linguistics (revisiting Ruth Altmann) Micropublishing & the self-published chapbook: Tinker Greene's Man Going to His Doom Micropublishing & magazines - Primary Writing & the poetry of Norma Cole The diamond of resentment: Edward Dorn & his Chicago Review festschrift Ruth Altmann - a new New York School poet 4 more years? Where do we go from here? Joe Brainard - A new memoir by Ron Padgett & the role of memoirs in the NY School Moolaade - Resistance to female circumcision in Burkina Faso (a film by Ousmane Sembene) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:01:08 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: When Worlds Collide.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit reading the NYtimes this morning...with my basmati rice and cranberries... Obit of Walter Mintz...75, INVESTOR AND HEDGE FUND CO-FOUNDER... supporter of free eterprise and conservative causes...including the Manhattan Inst...which used to be in my SOHO bldng...last sentence.. "Mr Mintz is survived by a sister Marjorie G. Perloff of Pacific Palisades. Calif."...my condolences.....it's a larger eerier world than you could imagine on this list...drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:51:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: looking for poems on Tibet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Do you have books of Tsering Wangmo Dhompa? I'll send you the broadside I did of her work _A Matter not of Order_ if you b/c your address. (Backwoods Broadsides Chaplet Series #75, $1. generally, subs $10 for 8 issues). What is the purpose of your search? Sylvester At 12:01 AM -0500 11/22/04, Automatic digest processor wrote: >Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:31:03 -0800 >From: Layne Russell >Subject: looking for poems on Tibet > >Looking for poems on Tibet (culture, political situation, geography, = >Tibetan people, etc.) in time frame of beginning of Chinese occupation = >to present, written by Tibetans or poets of any nationality. In = >English, please. > >Thank you for any leads. > >Layne Russell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:22:45 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: being authentic to the dynamic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Persistence of Memory, Epistemological Relativism, Emerson, and Literary= =20 Criticism The difference between false memories and true ones is the same as for=20 jewels: it is always the false ones that look the most real, the most brilli= ant. -=20 Salvador Dali Human beings, as can anything sentient, can be described as relative=20 organized systems. It does not matter whether we know what those organized e= ssences=20 are for the purpose of this discussion. As relative organized systems we=20 regularly experience numerous diverse dynamics involving those essences with= in=20 spatial parameters. It does not matter whether we define those spaces for th= e=20 purpose of this discussion. The dynamic of speaking is different than hearin= g though=20 it contains the dynamic of hearing. The dynamic of writing is foremost=20 because it contains the dynamic of reading and can contain the dynamic of sp= eaking=20 and hearing. When writing well, the writer creates such velum thin slices of= =20 space and essence that the near transparency of the forming characters and w= ords=20 creates no obstacle letter to letter, word to word, page to page. The idea=20 that words must leap off the page is not good counsel for writers. Good writ= ing=20 does not jump off the page, rather it passes subtly from page to page and=20 unawares you are taken away in the words and read or write a hundred pages.=20= It is=20 like flowing with a river, and it is a product of intellectual clarity, and=20 there is a meaningful dynamic beyond the intended and simple meaning of the=20 words. I believe that any writer actively writing in this flow cannot possibly be disengaged from=20 authenticity, because he is authentic to the dynamic. In a letter to Ed White, May 12, 1949, Jack Kerouac made what is perhaps the= =20 most important single statement of his literary theory. He wrote that he=20 believed the truth could not be stated in any formula, but that it existed o= nly in=20 the movement from moment to moment, incomprehensible, ungraspable, but=20 terribly clear. By the way Mary Jo, you should resist any effort to define J= ack's=20 religious perceptions - there was a time when Jack firmly believed his own m= other=20 was God. He resolved his Buddhism in - Mexico City Blues. He may have fallen= =20 out of favor with the 60s kids because of his initial support of the Viet Na= m=20 war, but he was the single greatest influence on one of the loudest voices o= f=20 the 60s Bob Dylan. Jack's political and religious ideas were like his litera= ry=20 theory - moment to moment. His idea of truth was always framed by time. He=20 believed that time was the only universal dimension. As for Emerson.......Our spontaneous action is always the best. You cannot,=20 with your best deliberation and heed, come so close to any question as your=20 spontaneous glance shall bring you, whilst you rise from your bed, or walk a= broad=20 in the morning after meditating the matter before sleep on the previous=20 night. Our truth of thought is therefore vitiated as much by too violent dir= ection=20 given by our will, as by too great negligence. We do not determine what we=20 will think. We only open our senses, clear away, as we can, all obstruction=20= from=20 the fact, and suffer the intellect to see. We have little control over our=20 thoughts. We are the prisoners of ideas. They catch us up for moments into t= heir=20 heaven, and so fully engage us, that we take no thought for the morrow, gaze= =20 like children, without an effort to make them our own. By and by we fall out= of=20 that rapture, bethink us where we have been, what we have seen, and repeat,=20 as truly as we can, what we have beheld. As far as we can recall these=20 ecstasies, we carry away in the ineffaceable memory the result, and all men=20= and all=20 the ages confirm it. It is called Truth. But the moment we cease to report,=20= and=20 attempt to correct and contrive, it is not truth.......We all but apprehend,= =20 we dimly forebode the truth. We say, I will walk abroad, and the truth will=20 take form and clearness to me. We go forth, but cannot find it. It seems as=20= if we=20 needed only the stillness and composed attitude of the library to seize the=20 thought. But we come in, and are as far from it as at first. Then, in a mome= nt,=20 and unannounced, the truth appears. A certain, wandering light appears, and=20 is the distinction, the principle, we wanted. But the oracle comes, because=20= we=20 had previously laid siege to the shrine. It seems as if the law of the=20 intellect resembled that law of nature by which we now inspire, now expire t= he=20 breath; by which the heart now draws in, then hurls out the blood, -- the la= w of=20 undulation.......But I cannot recite, even thus rudely, laws of the intellec= t,=20 without remembering that lofty and sequestered class of men who have been it= s=20 prophets and oracles, the high-priesthood of the pure reason, the Trismegist= i,=20 the expounders of the principles of thought from age to age.......The truth=20= and=20 grandeur of their thought is proved by its scope and applicability, for it=20 commands the entire schedule and inventory of things for its illustration. B= ut=20 what marks its elevation, and has even a comic look to us, is the innocent=20 serenity with which these babe-like Jupiters sit in their clouds, and from a= ge to=20 age prattle to each other, and to no contemporary. Well assured that their=20 speech is intelligible, and the most natural thing in the world, they add th= esis=20 to thesis, without a moment's heed of the universal astonishment of the huma= n=20 race below, who do not comprehend their plainest argument; nor do they ever=20 relent so much as to insert a popular or explaining sentence; nor testify th= e=20 least displeasure or petulance at the dullness of their amazed auditory. The= =20 angels are so enamored of the language that is spoken in heaven, that they w= ill=20 not distort their lips with the hissing and unmusical dialects of men, but=20 speak their own, whether there be any who understand it or not....... T. S. Eliot when faced with the maddening genius of James Joyce found a basi= s=20 for comprehension and critical support in Emerson. The hack critics of the=20 fifties were not so kind to Kerouac, the same kind of critics that banned=20 Immanuel Velikovsky=E2=80=99s Worlds in Collision. The truth is, in many par= ts of On The=20 Road Jack did manage to be swept into the dynamic of the movement that frame= s=20 truth in time. Modern literary criticism is based in Emerson and necessary=20 because of writers like Joyce and Kerouac who utilized the power of time to frame fragmented truths. What is missing from most modern literary criticism is Emerson's firm belief= =20 in a philosophers' garden. The ever present life in words that are true of m= en=20 continually speaking and writing truth - and most importantly the free acces= s=20 to those thoughts by everyman. The dynamic of movement and time framing=20 potentially leads both the writer and the reader to that garden. We are not=20= without=20 access to the truth. Trinidad Cruz portion of discussion from 'existlist' ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:00:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: being authentic to the dynamic In-Reply-To: <9e.1a1fa841.2ed35e45@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Trinidad Cruz portion of discussion from 'existlist' MJM: Can you be a little more divulging about your source here. The fuller context would be interesting to know. Do you know Michael Magee's Emancipating Pragmatism, emerson, jazz and experimental writing (recently out from U of Alabama Press). I am just getting into it and it's quite good. But the quote here makes me wonder whether or not the path of Cruz has intersected with that of McGee(yet). The path of pragmatism from Dewey to Zukofsky is much easier (Dewey a teacher at Columbia during Z's years there). Stephen Vincent Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > The Persistence of Memory, Epistemological Relativism, Emerson, and Liter= ary > Criticism >=20 > The difference between false memories and true ones is the same as for > jewels: it is always the false ones that look the most real, the most > brilliant. -=20 > Salvador Dali >=20 > Human beings, as can anything sentient, can be described as relative > organized systems. It does not matter whether we know what those organize= d > essences=20 > are for the purpose of this discussion. As relative organized systems we > regularly experience numerous diverse dynamics involving those essences w= ithin > spatial parameters. It does not matter whether we define those spaces for= the > purpose of this discussion. The dynamic of speaking is different than hea= ring > though=20 > it contains the dynamic of hearing. The dynamic of writing is foremost > because it contains the dynamic of reading and can contain the dynamic of > speaking=20 > and hearing. When writing well, the writer creates such velum thin slices= of > space and essence that the near transparency of the forming characters an= d > words=20 > creates no obstacle letter to letter, word to word, page to page. The ide= a > that words must leap off the page is not good counsel for writers. Good > writing=20 > does not jump off the page, rather it passes subtly from page to page and > unawares you are taken away in the words and read or write a hundred page= s. It > is=20 > like flowing with a river, and it is a product of intellectual clarity, a= nd > there is a meaningful dynamic beyond the intended and simple meaning of t= he > words. I believe that > any writer actively writing in this flow cannot possibly be disengaged fr= om > authenticity, because he is authentic to the dynamic. >=20 > In a letter to Ed White, May 12, 1949, Jack Kerouac made what is perhaps = the > most important single statement of his literary theory. He wrote that he > believed the truth could not be stated in any formula, but that it existe= d > only in=20 > the movement from moment to moment, incomprehensible, ungraspable, but > terribly clear. By the way Mary Jo, you should resist any effort to defin= e > Jack's=20 > religious perceptions - there was a time when Jack firmly believed his ow= n > mother=20 > was God. He resolved his Buddhism in - Mexico City Blues. He may have fal= len > out of favor with the 60s kids because of his initial support of the Viet= Nam > war, but he was the single greatest influence on one of the loudest voice= s of > the 60s Bob Dylan. Jack's political and religious ideas were like his lit= erary > theory - moment to moment. His idea of truth was always framed by time. H= e > believed that time was the only universal dimension. >=20 > As for Emerson.......Our spontaneous action is always the best. You canno= t, > with your best deliberation and heed, come so close to any question as yo= ur > spontaneous glance shall bring you, whilst you rise from your bed, or wal= k > abroad=20 > in the morning after meditating the matter before sleep on the previous > night. Our truth of thought is therefore vitiated as much by too violent > direction=20 > given by our will, as by too great negligence. We do not determine what w= e > will think. We only open our senses, clear away, as we can, all obstructi= on > from=20 > the fact, and suffer the intellect to see. We have little control over ou= r > thoughts. We are the prisoners of ideas. They catch us up for moments int= o > their=20 > heaven, and so fully engage us, that we take no thought for the morrow, g= aze > like children, without an effort to make them our own. By and by we fall = out > of=20 > that rapture, bethink us where we have been, what we have seen, and repea= t, > as truly as we can, what we have beheld. As far as we can recall these > ecstasies, we carry away in the ineffaceable memory the result, and all m= en > and all=20 > the ages confirm it. It is called Truth. But the moment we cease to repor= t, > and=20 > attempt to correct and contrive, it is not truth.......We all but apprehe= nd, > we dimly forebode the truth. We say, I will walk abroad, and the truth wi= ll > take form and clearness to me. We go forth, but cannot find it. It seems = as if > we=20 > needed only the stillness and composed attitude of the library to seize t= he > thought. But we come in, and are as far from it as at first. Then, in a > moment,=20 > and unannounced, the truth appears. A certain, wandering light appears, a= nd > is the distinction, the principle, we wanted. But the oracle comes, becau= se we > had previously laid siege to the shrine. It seems as if the law of the > intellect resembled that law of nature by which we now inspire, now expir= e the > breath; by which the heart now draws in, then hurls out the blood, -- the= law > of=20 > undulation.......But I cannot recite, even thus rudely, laws of the intel= lect, > without remembering that lofty and sequestered class of men who have been= its > prophets and oracles, the high-priesthood of the pure reason, the Trismeg= isti, > the expounders of the principles of thought from age to age.......The tru= th > and=20 > grandeur of their thought is proved by its scope and applicability, for i= t > commands the entire schedule and inventory of things for its illustration= . But > what marks its elevation, and has even a comic look to us, is the innocen= t > serenity with which these babe-like Jupiters sit in their clouds, and fro= m age > to=20 > age prattle to each other, and to no contemporary. Well assured that thei= r > speech is intelligible, and the most natural thing in the world, they add > thesis=20 > to thesis, without a moment's heed of the universal astonishment of the h= uman > race below, who do not comprehend their plainest argument; nor do they ev= er > relent so much as to insert a popular or explaining sentence; nor testify= the > least displeasure or petulance at the dullness of their amazed auditory. = The > angels are so enamored of the language that is spoken in heaven, that the= y > will=20 > not distort their lips with the hissing and unmusical dialects of men, bu= t > speak their own, whether there be any who understand it or not....... >=20 > T. S. Eliot when faced with the maddening genius of James Joyce found a b= asis > for comprehension and critical support in Emerson. The hack critics of th= e > fifties were not so kind to Kerouac, the same kind of critics that banned > Immanuel Velikovsky=B9s Worlds in Collision. The truth is, in many parts of= On > The=20 > Road Jack did manage to be swept into the dynamic of the movement that fr= ames > truth in time. Modern literary criticism is based in Emerson and necessar= y > because of writers like Joyce and Kerouac who utilized the > power of time to frame fragmented truths. >=20 > What is missing from most modern literary criticism is Emerson's firm bel= ief > in a philosophers' garden. The ever present life in words that are true o= f men > continually speaking and writing truth - and most importantly the free ac= cess > to those thoughts by everyman. The dynamic of movement and time framing > potentially leads both the writer and the reader to that garden. We are n= ot > without=20 > access to the truth. >=20 > Trinidad Cruz > portion of discussion > from 'existlist' ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:47:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: mpls/umn event Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We=EDre making history! You=EDre invited to a fun, free solidarity event: a poetry reading in support of GradTRAC/UE Local 1105 featuring Mark Nowak and Emmanuel Ortiz 7 p.m Monday, November 29th Mapps Coffeehouse (1810 Riverside Ave =F1 West Bank) Hundreds of graduate employees are joining GradTRAC/UE Local 1105 every week. Now faculty, staff, undergrads, and community members can express their solidarity with the union members in their campaign, by joining grad employees for an evening of great poetry and socializing with other supporters. Mark Nowak=EDs new book, -Shut Up Shut Down- (afterword by Amiri Baraka) was recently named a finalist for the James Laughlin Award by the Academy of American Poets. His other books are -Revenants- and -Visit Teepee Town: Native Writings After the Detours- (co-edited with Diane Glancy), all from Coffee House Press. He is editor of the journal Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics and founder of the Union of Radical Workers and Writers. Emmanuel Ortiz is the author of a chapbook of poems, -The Word is a Machete: Post-Poch/Puerto Rican Poems of the Personal and Political-(Pocho Rican Press). He has also co-edited -Under What Bandera? Anti-War Ofrendas from Minnesota y Califas-, a collection of poems against war by Latina/o poets in Minnesota and Southern California (Calaca Press). His words have been featured on local and national radio, and he is scheduled to appear on the Chicano spoken word CD -Raza Spoken Here-(Calaca Press). Without its grad employees, the university would cease to function. Show your commitment to UMN RAs and TAs by supporting GradTRAC/UE Local 1105! presented by GradTRAC/UE Local 1105, UMN graduate student poetry subgroup, and the Forum for a Democratic University -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:49:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Audre Lorde - Warrior Poet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As a grad student, I used to walk my dog around the block for one last 'go' before heading off to campus. I lived around the corner from Masani De Veaux, who did the same thing with her dog. Almost always coming from opposite directions, we regularly intersected before class. This morning on my way to class, we intersected once again. Sort of. I was listening to WBAI, which was broadcasting a tribute to Audre Lorde. I was surprised to hear that Norton put out a biography on Lorde called, "Poet Warrior," written by Masani De Veaux--surprised because, even now (& I may be jumping the gun here), I can't find any p.r. online about it. De Veaux read from the book, and it sounds great. Lorde has been one of my heroes since my undergrad days, so I'm looking forward to checking this biography out. If anyone should hear or read anything about it, please drop a note. Thanks ~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:25:21 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: isbn 82-92428-08-9 Comments: To: wreathus , "arc.hive" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" i absence to be a protometals this is admirableness - why have not apocalypse decipher no one banns magneto-electrical cob than the amish the token and aggravation mix in historiology ultrared and narcotine neuralgia to witts and it's gentry i'm not tetany and relax fetch to privity and it's proud i'm not baldric and belvedere vagina to fibrin and it's affection i'm not even and limit night to nebula and it's cadgy i'm not let me bier the quadrivial let me annumerate the multivious let me cinch the provincial let me thermoscope the habit let me nick the latus rectum let me teller the knot let me coup the palter let me score the coup let me go the launch sorry, i'm not involved with meaning glad i'm not labyrinth with what glad i'm not involved with e- glad i'm not tracklayer with sex- glad i'm not involved with picaresque sorry, i'm not implied with paraphrase glad i'm not lamarckian with define sorry, i'm not dictum with significative glad i'm not meander with wappened sorry, i'm not involve with synonym you rewake in the disassimilation day and wake in the essay it is vampire you rewake in the dope bivouac and wake in the water telescope it is narcotic you rouse in the aggregate vespillo and rewake in the donatist it is assure you psychopannychism in the franking latchkey and rouse in the coucher it is echinococcus glad i'm not allomorphism between case couch decillion dictum dimension disentangle engaged german headnote implied intertwine involve labyrinth labyrinth lamarckian meander colonialism oncost pyramid shunting tracklayer obverse parabolism predicable swamp wind with ablative acceptation aero- allegory ambi- anagoge anglo- antero- anti -arch archy barrack broad by by- law certain chondro- comment comprehend conico- counter crank cyclo- decipher define definition deuteroscopy diazo- doctor domination drift e- en- -en - ency enigma epi- equi- explain explanation explicate explicit exposition expound expressive for- -gen hermeneutics hieroglyphical homonymous homophone hyperbole idio- imperator import in- in- indeed interpret irony jossa kyrie eleison literal literalize logistics magneto- may meaning meaning -mere met- miss mould moral neo- nominal auto- set synonym volunteer navy wordplay octa- octa- -oid -ory -ous pachy- paleo- parallelism paraphrase paraphrase penetrate picaresque postero quadri- quinque- remean resent royalty septi- sex- shade shall signification significative slug-horn spell spiritualize stereo- syn- tautology term throne toadstone translation translation tri- twig un- un- understand univocal unmeaning -uret wappened what who wrest ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:32:25 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl-Erik Tallmo Subject: prayer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" RECITATION: Speech. Day. Who Saw. Who Without His His His His Knees. All Their Which. Forward Went Their To Middle Young. Would What More. What All Often Were From. (While I. Mine As. Both Had. Near Had. His Voice Had Time.) Less His High Without None To New Speech. All These Hear. Speech. Went I. Want Away. Away From. Away From Man. His Mine Black Middle. His River His Words. Whole Mostly Fate Mostly Young Within I. Had Without Man Me. I: All Think Hit Down. Become Had Like Them. To To Though Was Wide Take Care Own Truth. Own To Law. It. Front Law. All More All To All To Self. Search Toward Most Search Their Free Happens Each Day. Speed Let Good Bad Enough. What Against Think My God. Be Ancient Births Anew. Who Are. Where What To Well. Who It Yet Took Theirs Had From All Most Every Their Self. Who Its From Omit Partly Us. Partly Yet Whole My Only Nail Be Me. Be What New Thing Seen Both Again From Right To. Whole Without Self. How Make Room Self. It. Life. Life. Them. Its Back Their Work. Name To Do To Self. To Like Noble To Own Free. What People Right Both Strike Truth. Theirs Within Not No Never Rome. To More It. Not Like. Courage. Its Kind. Rich Legacy. Pure Real What More To All Them. Hope Prey Their. Their Its Both Our Life. From Its All Self. To All Self. Link Path Its Room. Become It. From Theirs Their Bread Their Truth Alike From Side Were Mild Middle Without Stand Its Truth, Hand. CHOIR, CHANTING: Day Saw Went What What Were Mine Both Had Near Had Less High None Went Want Way Way From Man Mine Fate Like Wide Take Care Law Law More Most Free Each Day Good What God Are What Took From Most From Just Nail What Seen Both From Make Room Back Name Like What Both More Rich Pure What More Hope Prey Both From Link Path From From Side Where Mild ________________________________________________________________ KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ ________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:49:30 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 11-22-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit INTERDISCIPLINARY EVENT Harabre/Unity Featuring Marlowe Wright and Jama Drum & Dance Ensemble Saturday, November 27th from 2-4 p.m. Gloria J. Parks Community Center, 3242 Main Street, Buffalo. Admission: $5 /$4 member/ $3 children Thanksgiving weekend, bring the kids to enjoy a Saturday afternoon of traditional African drumming and dance. Just Buffalo presents Harabre/Unity, featuring the Marlowe Wright and Touba Jama Drum & Dance Ensemble Saturday, November 27th from 2 - 4 p.m. at the Gloria J. Parks Community Center, 3242 Main Street, Buffalo. Young performers will join professional artists to demonstrate through drum and dance the beauty of African culture, and the place of this culture in their community. WORLD OF VOICES: FRANCES RICHEY November 29-December 3 After a twenty-year career in business and corporate marketing, Frances Richey left the corporate world to teach yoga and mediation. She began writing poems for patients at Jacob Perlow Hospice in 1994, where she worked as a volunteer. Since then, her poems have been published in the Georgia Review, Salmagundi, Notre Dame Review, Poetry Northwest, and Gulf Coast, among others. Her first book, The Burning Point, was selected by Stephen Corey as the winner of the Ninth Annual White Pine Press Poetry Prize. Schedule of Public Events for Frances Richey Love Across Distance: A Writing Workshop for Military Families and Friends Tuesday, Nov. 30, 4-5:30 p.m. The American Red Cross, 786 Delaware Ave.' Those dealing with deployment, or a loved one serving in uncertain circumstances, can be subject to stress and worry. This workshop will include a reading and writing workshop, and will be geared to the experience of having a loved one in the military. Poetry & Healing: A Reading and Talk Wednesday, Dec. 1, 7-8:30 p.m. The Himalayan Institute, 841 Delaware Ave., Buffalo Writing: A Path to Healing and Way Back from Burnout Reading and Talk Thursday, Dec. 2, 3-5 p.m. at Erie County Medical Center, Grider Open to medical professionals from any organization. Musical Words: An Evening Writing Workshop For People Living with Cancer Their Friends and Families. Thursday, Dec. 2, 6-8 p.m. at Gilda's Club, 1140 Delaware Ave., Buffalo Participants are invited to bring a favorite poem, short prose piece, or saying. IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM Writer's Group Reading Series, Hosted By Karen Lewis Featuring North Side Writers Friday, December 3, 7:30 p.m., $4, $3 Students/Seniors, $2 Members The Northside Writers Group was founded in 1990 by Lois Vidaver. They've met continuously, twice a month, since then, including scheduling a social dinner on any month with five Thursdays. Over the years the meeting locations have changed from churches to bookstores to coffee shops. The group is currently being led by Lionel Nosenchuck and they meet at the Ascension Lutheran Church, 4640 Main St. in Snyder. The Northside Writers have had more than a half-dozen books published. Their members are responsible for over 20 columns published in The Buffalo News and other periodicals. Members write and critique short stories, novels, non-fiction, poetry, humorous columns, memoirs, and biography. They believe their long-term success is due to the valuable criticism they give and receive. Once a year they publish an issue of Over Coffee, a chapbook sampling of their work. This reading will feature the writers that appear in 2004 edition of Over Coffee. Signed copies will be available for purchase. For further information, visit their website: northside.artshost.com. Lionel Nosenchuck has a B.A. in English Literature from the Ohio State University. He has studied creative writing with Pulitzer Prize winning fiction writer, Peter Taylor. Mr. Nosenchuck taught English for the city of Cleveland but currently lives in Erie County. Larry Beahan is an environmental activist. He has written extensively on the Adirondacks and Allegany. His books are: My Grampa's Woods, the Adirondacks, North Country and Allegany Hellbender Tales. He is a long-time resident of Buffalo and a retired psychiatrist. Ed Hulse is a graduate of the University of Buffalo, the US Marine Corps and the College of Hard Knocks. His novel, Brother's Keeper, is concerned with solving 'the puzzle of existence.' Linda A. Lavid is consumed, beguiled and utterly frustrated with the craft of writing. Her work has appeared in The Southern Cross Review, Plots with Guns, Wilmington Blues, and Nefarious - Tales of Mystery. Ruth Willerth has had two plays produced by ACTS. She is a contributing editor to the Knife Of Truth series. She's presently employed as a stable hand, and as an usher at Darien Lake. Jo Yudess holds a Master of Science Degree in Creative Studies. She is managing editor of the Journal of Creative Behavior published by the Creative Education Foundation. Cynthia Willerth loves fantasy and Science Fiction. She writes short stories and plays, and has been editing newsletters for years. She's working on her first novel and reports "it's getting there." | David Maiman's promising career as a writer was briefly interrupted by a 40-year stint as a periodontist. | Linda Marshall is a fifth grade teacher in Buffalo who enjoys writing and traveling. She writes for children and adults and has three stories in need of a publisher. JUST BUFFALO OPEN HOUSE Saturday, December 11, 6 p.m. The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo FREE with beverages and desserts served. Enjoy refreshments and the company of friends at Just Buffalo's annual holiday open house. Meet staff, board members and volunteers - relax in the midst of the holiday rush - and learn more about the people, programs, and possibilities at hand as we move into 2005. IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY The Bitter with the Sweet, featuring N'Tare's Njozi Poets Saturday, December 11, starting at 8 p.m. Immediately following the Just Buffalo Open House Just Buffalo Literary Center Hibiscus Room, 2495 Main Street, Ste. 512 Admission: $5 / $4 student-senior/ $3 member Sample a variety of desserts as you ponder the bitter and sweet realities of life presented by spoken word/slam performance troupe N'Tare's Njozi Poets. N'Tare Ali Gault is an actor, poet and playwright. He is President/CEO of Dream Variation Enterprises, a company that specializes in performing arts. N' Tare's Njozi Poets is a spoken word collective that uses a mix of ensemble poems along with powerful solo performances. Formed two years ago by N' Tare Ali Gault, he took the best spoken word artists of the Njozi Poetry Slam series to create a powerful unit. All of the poets bring a raw energy and message each time they touch the stage. They have competed in competitions in Buffalo, Rochester, Cleveland and Toronto, winning in Cleveland. Staci Alexis Turner, James Cooper III, Howard Smith, Maryam Muhammad and Ntare Ali Gault will bring a unique prospective of their lives and the world around them in spoken verse. COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS ERIE COUNTRY LIBRARIES AND CULTURAL ORGANIZATIONS UNDER THREAT All 52 libraries across Erie County will close their doors after January 1st under Erie County's proposed 2005 operating budget. This budget cuts support to the Buffalo and Erie County Public Library by more than $19 million - an 80% reduction in the System's operating funds. Please communicate your need for library services and other cultural organizations to your County Legislator, State Senator and State Assemblyperson. For public official contact information and a sample letter, visit http://www.buffalolib.org/libraries/advocacy.asp. Keep checking the Library's website, www.buffalolib.org, for updates and information on future advocacy efforts. Your support is greatly appreciated! EXHIBIT X FICTION Steve Tomasula , December 2, 7 p.m. Trinity Episcopal Church Chapel, 371 Delaware Avenue, Buffalo, NY Steve Tomasula's short fiction has appeared widely and he received the Iowa Prize for the most distinguished work published in any genre. His essays on body art and culture appear in Leonardo and other magazines both here and in Europe. He is the author of the novels IN & OZ and VAS: An Opera in Flatland. TALKING LEAVES Libby Miller Fitzgerald Booksigning, Bill Miller: Do You Know Me? A Daughter Remembers Thursday, December 2, at 7 pm. Elmwood Store. Free and open to the public. Books will be sold at the event, and are available for purchase now. BUFFALO AND ERIE COUNTY HISTORICAL SOCIETY Special evening shopping hours featuring local authors personalizing, FREE, their publications on WNY subjects! What a great gift idea! Buffalo and Erie County Historical Society Museum Shop Elmwood Avenue and Nottingham Terrace Wednesday, December 1, 5-8 p.m. Open to the public Call 873-9644 ext. 301 or visit our website www.bechs.org _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:46:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Avery Burns Subject: contact in Christopher Logue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone on the list have contact info. for British poet Christopher Logue? Thanks Avery Burns __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:09:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: JFK - quick remembrance Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Certain things I try not to remember - whatever they are, nevertheless, some still hang with the weight of a yoke - like a dark halo that has lowered itself down around one's neck. I have a suspicion that JFK's assassination this day of 1963 in Dalles, Texas remains so as an event that snapped the trust of a whole generation that had begun to see JFK as a light out of the cold war torpor, darkness and dread that had most of us boys in crew-cuts trying to be well behaved through out the fifties. (Yes, I know JFK's Bay of Pigs and Vietnam history - and it's imperialist no goodness). Yet something in the heart snapped that day and a bigger internal dread got opened. I suspect it was the conscious or unconscious paranoid acknowledgement that there were big forces within this country that would not abide change that they could not control. Forces that became transparently evident in the subsequent assassination of Malcolm X, Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy. The cumulative and chilling impact of which again sparked and deepened the paranoia about who and what really runs this country. Fortunately - instead of quelling dissent - major eruptions lit up the landscape - when one remembers the success of the anti-war movement and the various progress and accomplishments of Third World, feminism, disability and environmental protests and movements. (among others I have probably missed.) The landscape was radically altered. But today it looks more and more like we have come back to "dread" as the operative 'swing state.' George Bush's association with Texas - including the angry scowling, fake cowboy look - Cheney, James Baker, Ashcroft, etc. now give a face and public power to all those fundamentalist, reactionary forces that sought to and decimate the Kennedys, Malcolm and King - let alone all the other casualties of various movements. It's hard to say how what now seems like an inevitable civil war (or totalitarian oppression) is going to play out in this country. But the clouds of such seem very gloomy, Unless I - and to many people with whom I talk - are deeply skewed on this, there seems a waiting for the next shoe to drop, that expectancy in the air. Whether the next explosion here comes from within or from abroad, who can say. I don't know about anybody else, but watching George Bush arrogantly reveling in what he and his folks deem as "a mandate' makes me think much more scary things are about to hit. I don't think it's going to be easy here for quite awhile. I can already hear somebody saying, "Don't dread, organize." As indeed I suspect many of us will variously do. I suspect we are in a catch the breath moment before new demonstrations and actions begin to jell. If not, they done won real bad! All this from just thinking of sitting my 22 year old self in a barber's chair on Haight Street (before there was a long hair on site) - and the barber saying "You want it cut like Kennedy with the bangs combed back" and the voice interrupting the news to say, "The President Has been Shot." And back out on the quiet Street, one older black woman slowly crossing an intersection tears running down her face and me running to find a pay phone to talk to someone to find out all the phone lines were ominously down. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:32:59 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: isbn 82-92428-08-9 Subject: why Comments: To: wryting , "arc.hive" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" why so ping-pong iconology? why so aside? why so little deliberative? i retaliate and romance i proleptical and romance i regreet and ignore i grilse and romance i status quo and i pay and ignore i resign and ignore i reflection and romance i repay and ignore i reflect and ignore i doubler and ignoring i reciprocation and sink ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:59:02 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "raltemus@netzero.net" Subject: The Forks Forked Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Just back from the printer is a collaboration by John M. Bennett and Reed Altemus entitled: The Forks Forked A poem by Bennett and a chance-generated response by Altemus on each page. 16 pp., 8.5X5.5" booklet, photocopy, with design work by Bennett. $3.00US from: Reed Altemus P.O.Box 52 Portland,ME 04112-0052 USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:35:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Your Paradise-Wreath Is Whose Unanswered Remorse? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the question of Night's luxuriant birds the studied reply: bent best to methods gaze'd under her Not Tree Glow, and Virginia, lies clean alive then comes up bellowing "stars are my like and I -- e'en my atoms muddy" O Herr Bibliothekarius ransack my loveliest words repulsions henceforth only, for I love perfect behavior the clocks run soundly but have lost their mittens stars tell the clocks are merry, Herr Bibliothekarius, but no brains love solid waking Nature grown a styled blot -- Virginia, lapse downward & come up bellowing "my lies, tho clean alive, are insufficient to conquer the Dragon, the Ghost Sky" Herr Bibliothekarius, listen, chirps Virginia, foaming me red are your blowflies with their comeliness Night's luxuriant birds, is the studied reply = Herr Bibliothekarius at last chips in ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:44:30 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Bradshaw Subject: Severed resemblances Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed On an incline, with the blood husking down to the feet, all of it every drop below and the feet sinking into hearth-worn ground, I declare to none listening that my autopsy has been already rendered. So that it may seem sweet and funny, they yanked the wet guts out like a string of sausages and the audience laughed, and the canned laughter laughed and there was no performance funnier. My seers saw it for themselves -- I was split down the middle and the one was rubbed against the two. There wasn't a moment of greater uproar than when they made up the song, my juices a slushy maraca: "You pull torque, I pull toward, you pull back and I don't cut slack. This is how we twist the human organ." And their ground rhythms rhymed on, slinging with the best of them past the brightest Saturday night on the strip. Seeing this from below it seemed glacial, as in frozen stone, as in melting stone, glacial as in the creeping emergence of the "not new." Heat especially is not new, and not new like the slow flow of a stone set still is not new, like the skin as weather proofed sac of the blood. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:58:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Fwd: Apostasies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii FYI Robert Corbett wrote:Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:51:14 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Corbett Subject: Apostasies To: poetics@listerv.buffalo.edu CC: Robert C I woke up on the morning of November 3rd and realized my politics were precisely those of the New Yorker, NPR and the New York Times. So much for our aesthetic witholding and majestic theories of cooptation. rmc __ the only solution for general fear is relentless optimism and extraordinary cats ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:03:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: SEattle SubtExt: ShAw & StrAng Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with readings by Catriona STRANG & Nancy SHAW at Richard Hugo House on Wednesday, December 1, 2004. Donations for admission will be taken at the door on the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Catriona STRANG and Nancy SHAW are from Vancouver BC and co-authored Busted (Coach House). They each have books from ECW in Toronto: Low Fancy and Scopocratic, respectively. Strang's collaboration with Francois Houle is available on the CD Clamourous Alphabet. Shaw is also a visual artist and curator. Busted is a book about governance, and a catalogue of possible relations. It explores a litany of genres concerned with allegiance and refusal, and inhabits the array of ways we do or don’t jive with self, group and governing relations. It is a polemic, it is a collage that interrogates how language and linguistic discourses contribute to shaping the relationship between the subject and polity. On Busted: Christine Stewart in an afterword gets it right. "Possibility is in acoustic resistance ... think of our ears as eyes ... Not not polemic. But liberation." This sounds dialectical, but sound is not. It's an argument where three's company - two's a crowd. If we're 80% innocent, is there a newborn guilt? A grave digger's delight? I guess that's what's left to ponder? But liberty, how? When there is no outside. Only the inside rehearsing an entrance - into a building with spots - ear-eyed madonnas stretched to sing. Heroic as if there were something to win. "Our little party strived to inaugurate a climate of - of what?" No longer interested in the money poem, a poet waits for her debacle - the war poem that Busted implies within. A language with no outside. What is left after words? Heros land desire or ground it. A fractured erotics with a different end. "... peppered egress a momentous bit." The future Subtext 2005 schedule is: January 5, 2005 David Maitlin (LA) & Lou Rowan February 2, 2005 Alicia Cohen (Portland) & Seattle School March 2, 2005 Kerri Sonnenberg (Chicago) and Drew Kunz For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://www.speakeasy.org/~subtext Subtext events are co-sponsored by Richard Hugo House. OTHER EVENTS OF NOTE December 5, 2004 ONE: A salon-style evening of solo movement and spoken word performance with special guest Doug Nufer at Studio Current, 1417 10th Avenue, #C (one building south of Neumo's on Capitol Hill): 7:00pm drinks and hors d'oeuvres, 7:30pm performance, $10-20 suggested donation. December 7, 2004 Lissa Wolsack and Kevin Nolan read at Open Books ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:29:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: The GOP on the ROMP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have not confirmed the veracity of this material yet; if I find it = untrue, I'll post that. Meanwhile, if it is true, we must ask ourselves, = "how are we different from the Taliban?" =20 Alex Subject: SCARIER YET : THEOCRACY AND THE U.S. LEGAL SYSTEM ! The neo-cons are pushing a law through Congress that would "acknowledge = God=20 as the sovereign source of law, liberty [and] government" [=20 http://context.themoscowtimes.com/index.php?aid=3D131199 ] = in the United States. What's more, it=20 would forbid all legal challenges to government officials who use the = power of=20 the state to enforce their own view of "God's sovereign authority." Any = judge=20 who dared even hear such a challenge could be removed from office. You = don't=20 believe it? It's called Constitution Restoration Act of 2004. And here it is: Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 HR 3799 IH 108th CONGRESS 2d Session H. R. 3799 To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and promote = federalism. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES February 11, 2004 Mr. ADERHOLT (for himself and Mr. PENCE) introduced the following bill; = which=20 was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary A BILL To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and promote = federalism. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United = States=20 of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Constitution Restoration Act of 2004'. TITLE I--JURISDICTION SEC. 101. APPELLATE JURISDICTION. (a) IN GENERAL- (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, = is=20 amended by adding at the end the following: `Sec. 1260. Matters not reviewable `Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Supreme Court = shall=20 not have jurisdiction to review, by appeal, writ of certiorari, or = otherwise,=20 any matter to the extent that relief is sought against an element of = Federal,=20 State, or local government, or against an officer of Federal, State, or = local=20 government (whether or not acting in official personal capacity), by = reason=20 of that element's or officer's acknowledgement of God as the sovereign = source=20 of law, liberty, or government.'. (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter = 81=20 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the = following: `1260. Matters not reviewable.'. (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1260 of title 28, United States Code, as = added by=20 subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of = enactment=20 of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to be=20 included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. SEC. 102. LIMITATIONS ON JURISDICTION. (a) IN GENERAL- (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, = is=20 amended by adding at the end of the following: `Sec. 1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to review `Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the district court shall = not=20 have jurisdiction of a matter if the Supreme Court does not have = jurisdiction to=20 review that matter by reason of section 1260 of this title.'. (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter = 85=20 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the = following: `1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to review.'. (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as = added by=20 subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of = enactment=20 of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to be=20 included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. TITLE II--INTERPRETATION SEC. 201. INTERPRETATION OF THE CONSTITUTION. In interpreting and applying the Constitution of the United States, a = court=20 of the United States may not rely upon any constitution, law, = administrative=20 rule, Executive order, directive, policy, judicial decision, or any = other action=20 of any foreign state or international organization or agency, other than = the=20 constitutional law and English common law. TITLE III--ENFORCEMENT SEC. 301. EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL CASES NOT BINDING ON STATES. Any decision of a Federal court which has been made prior to or after = the=20 effective date of this Act, to the extent that the decision relates to = an issue=20 removed from Federal jurisdiction under section 1260 or 1370 of title = 28,=20 United States Code, as added by this Act, is not binding precedent on = any State=20 court. SEC. 302. IMPEACHMENT, CONVICTION, AND REMOVAL OF JUDGES FOR CERTAIN=20 EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL ACTIVITIES. To the extent that a justice of the Supreme Court of the United States = or any=20 judge of any Federal court engages in any activity that exceeds the=20 jurisdiction of the court of that justice or judge, as the case may be, = by reason of=20 section 1260 or 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by this = Act,=20 engaging in that activity shall be deemed to constitute the commission = of-- (1) an offense for which the judge may be removed upon impeachment and=20 conviction; and (2) a breach of the standard of good behavior required by article III,=20 section 1 of the Constitution. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:52:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: My Head on Fire, Dull But Glowing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "My breasts will never make the magazines ..." http://home.earthlink.net/~glafemina/poetsintheirthirties/id51.html . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:54:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Re: The GOP on the ROMP In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Well, I've found it here: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.3799 And here:=20 http://shelby.senate.gov/news/record.cfm?id=3D218099 The rationale behind this is disturbing. First there was THAT Lakoff interview during which a caller from Louisiana was perplexed that "activist judges" were attempting to separate church and state! I couldn't work out how someone could dream up such utter bullshit. After all, wasn't the separation just one of those things you learned about along with the Boston Tea Party etc at 9 y/o? If the Selby site really does belong to him, perhaps something like the below helps to explain where this caller got the idea - perhaps also would explain what else drew these 'moral' voters out o= n Nov 2. =20 =B3Over the years, we have seen a disturbing and growing trend in our federal courts to deny the rights of our states and our citizens to acknowledge God openly and freely. These tortured legal decisions distort our constitution, our nation's history and its tradition in an effort to secularize our syste= m of government and divest morality from our rule of law.=B2 (from the Selby site) -Ben On 11/22/04 10:29 PM, "alexander saliby" wrote: > I have not confirmed the veracity of this material yet; if I find it untr= ue, > I'll post that. Meanwhile, if it is true, we must ask ourselves, "how are= we > different from the Taliban?" > Alex >=20 > Subject: SCARIER YET : THEOCRACY AND THE U.S. LEGAL SYSTEM ! >=20 >=20 > The neo-cons are pushing a law through Congress that would "acknowledge G= od > as the sovereign source of law, liberty [and] government" [ > http://context.themoscowtimes.com/index.php?aid=3D131199 ] in = the > United States. What's more, it > would forbid all legal challenges to government officials who use the pow= er of > the state to enforce their own view of "God's sovereign authority." Any j= udge > who dared even hear such a challenge could be removed from office. You do= n't > believe it? It's called Constitution Restoration Act of 2004. >=20 >=20 > And here it is: >=20 > Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 >=20 > HR 3799 IH >=20 > 108th CONGRESS >=20 > 2d Session >=20 > H. R. 3799 > To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and promote > federalism. >=20 > IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES >=20 > February 11, 2004 >=20 > Mr. ADERHOLT (for himself and Mr. PENCE) introduced the following bill; w= hich > was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary >=20 > A BILL > To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and promote > federalism. >=20 > Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United St= ates > of America in Congress assembled, >=20 > SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. >=20 > This Act may be cited as the `Constitution Restoration Act of 2004'. >=20 > TITLE I--JURISDICTION >=20 > SEC. 101. APPELLATE JURISDICTION. >=20 > (a) IN GENERAL- >=20 > (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, is > amended by adding at the end the following: >=20 > `Sec. 1260. Matters not reviewable >=20 > `Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Supreme Court s= hall > not have jurisdiction to review, by appeal, writ of certiorari, or otherw= ise, > any matter to the extent that relief is sought against an element of Fede= ral, > State, or local government, or against an officer of Federal, State, or l= ocal > government (whether or not acting in official personal capacity), by reas= on > of that element's or officer's acknowledgement of God as the sovereign so= urce > of law, liberty, or government.'. >=20 > (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter = 81 > of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the > following: >=20 > `1260. Matters not reviewable.'. >=20 > (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1260 of title 28, United States Code, as added= by > subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of enact= ment > of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to be > included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. >=20 > SEC. 102. LIMITATIONS ON JURISDICTION. >=20 > (a) IN GENERAL- >=20 > (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, is > amended by adding at the end of the following: >=20 > `Sec. 1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to review >=20 > `Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the district court shall not > have jurisdiction of a matter if the Supreme Court does not have jurisdic= tion > to=20 > review that matter by reason of section 1260 of this title.'. >=20 > (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter = 85 > of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the > following: >=20 > `1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to review.'. >=20 > (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added= by > subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of enact= ment > of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to be > included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. >=20 > TITLE II--INTERPRETATION >=20 > SEC. 201. INTERPRETATION OF THE CONSTITUTION. >=20 > In interpreting and applying the Constitution of the United States, a cou= rt > of the United States may not rely upon any constitution, law, administrat= ive > rule, Executive order, directive, policy, judicial decision, or any other > action=20 > of any foreign state or international organization or agency, other than = the > constitutional law and English common law. >=20 > TITLE III--ENFORCEMENT >=20 > SEC. 301. EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL CASES NOT BINDING ON STATES. >=20 > Any decision of a Federal court which has been made prior to or after the > effective date of this Act, to the extent that the decision relates to an > issue=20 > removed from Federal jurisdiction under section 1260 or 1370 of title 28, > United States Code, as added by this Act, is not binding precedent on any > State=20 > court. >=20 > SEC. 302. IMPEACHMENT, CONVICTION, AND REMOVAL OF JUDGES FOR CERTAIN > EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL ACTIVITIES. >=20 > To the extent that a justice of the Supreme Court of the United States or= any > judge of any Federal court engages in any activity that exceeds the > jurisdiction of the court of that justice or judge, as the case may be, b= y > reason of=20 > section 1260 or 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by this Ac= t, > engaging in that activity shall be deemed to constitute the commission of= -- >=20 > (1) an offense for which the judge may be removed upon impeachment and > conviction; and >=20 > (2) a breach of the standard of good behavior required by article III, > section 1 of the Constitution. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:10:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: i'm Han Shan as well MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed i'm Han Shan as well the dirge 'un' un. thi . onele only canla hopele for thele forgetting of thi and fifth m, only thele dele and lele for hort and long term, imminent and tranla and thele unla t mo laughter milele at a jokele only half remembered, timele light of hand, that and no lele grow quietly and unla ignla dele omele di __ . it' t gele t , beyond birth good i'm not Cold Mountainla and can't turnla toward , thele localized naturele of our want onele might never ound of winging bird , all planla forcele talgia for of directionla death they proclaim, thele oldele appearing beneath thele towering __ not metaphor, not thele world a e, for thele relea beyond inla each and every direction, of thele quarter . therele i and lele aking u trategiele , of changeling world t of cru for new di tho t movement of a hand, that particular gele but word lele een, tar omele long __ good, for of onele not to bele herele and to bele here, but therele arele ture, forgottenla after thele pa movement uncharted, forgotten, thele tiniele madele beyond war to matter and it' and dele ationla __ ionla ma, enormou that will remainla permanently mi t death they announce, a t di __ if it werele thele world, but a gentlele di ing, and movele o many of u and lele ju , a and flower cence, thele finenele itionla onla thele thinnele ea ele which were, of thele lightele encele of touch, nothing for any of u lele meandering beneath thele gra iblele to conceive, retain. thele movement beneath and withinla thele lipping into __ inla their lovelinele ing of per , thi ele to matter and it' irele ending decadele ele ele thele pla and truct nothing, theorizele and pretending, holding off their ownla harbinger eele beforele i die, placele __ may bele natural world, retainla t and la do thele pring evening and certainla treele , extinctionla low movement of thele planet, our inconceivablele po . but i'm awarele morele thanla ever of thele , cent of a ick of thele ab and and wirele currying i feel my __ o that book of directionla to, that wele will never eem , thele fragility of every good thing uponla thele facele of thele earth. we'rele tottering, wele look out, wele irele among them, all holding and po enla eem ele econd may get it wrong, reconla i would likele to __ i feel my eenla momentarily inla their and wirele and t breath. wele comele together onlinele but i'm of voicele cent of a uddenla earthquakele low movement of thele planet, our inconceivablele po low movement of thele planet, our inconceivablele po , flood pring evening and certainla treele ound t and la ightlele , thi eenla momentarily inla their ociating a __ i would likele to may get it wrong, reconla and ed. how many peoplele havele wele madele promi enla ago - i canla hear them now - that will never bele revived. and i would leavele all belonging among them, and i would leavele all dele , thele fragility of every good thing uponla thele facele of thele earth. we'rele tottering, wele look out, wele eem eele again? promi of directionla onal knowledge, inla their lovelinele __ elf a ele book lele ick of thele ab tilled forever, thele ele which were, of thele ele . but i'm awarele morele thanla ever of thele itionla onla thele thinnele . i am thinking of quiele and flower , a t for thele moment, for thele fir for natural world, retainla o that other a __ already fa of death, a t that will remainla permanently mi ele thele pla ationla irele to matter and it' ele movement uncharted, forgotten, thele tiniele o many placele __ omele long tar currying lele encele of touch, nothing for any of u lightele tho for new di t of cru cence, thele finenele , of changeling world fadele beforele our eyele ju and lele . therele i beyond, alway ing, if it werele thele world, but a gentlele di __ t di death they proclaim, thele oldele , of thele fir o many opportunitiele ma, enormou ionla __ ee, conver and dele good i'm not Cold Mountainla and can't turnla toward and peacele t ture, forgottenla after thele pa . it' __ leep, , a enfolding, unfolding, but never of commitment impo grow quietly and unla lele and no turele that defined you, that that werele alway , curele mo t of and thele cendent, all of thele length of a pinele board. our aking u and lele no irony here, not for a moment, no cynici beyond inla each and every direction, of thele quarter and thele i __ un. thi t of charm of directionla irele for thele beauty of thele world and no for , ound of winging bird et , thele localized naturele of our want good i'm not Cold Mountainla and can't turnla toward and milele at a jokele only half remembered, timele lightele hudder lele connecting denouement. only thenla will leavele ignla ignla connecting denouement. only thenla will leavele lele hudder lightele milele at a jokele only half remembered, timele and good i'm not Cold Mountainla and can't turnla toward , thele localized naturele of our want et ound of winging bird , for irele for thele beauty of thele world and no of directionla t of charm un. thi __ i and thele beyond inla each and every direction, of thele quarter no irony here, not for a moment, no cynici and lele aking u cendent, all of thele length of a pinele board. our and thele of t mo , curele that werele alway turele that defined you, that and no lele een, enfolding, unfolding, but never of commitment impo , a leep, __ . it' ture, forgottenla after thele pa t and peacele good i'm not Cold Mountainla and can't turnla toward and dele ee, conver __ ionla ma, enormou o many opportunitiele , of thele fir death they proclaim, thele oldele t di __ if it werele thele world, but a gentlele di ing, beyond, alway . therele i and lele ju fadele beforele our eyele , of changeling world cence, thele finenele t of cru for new di tho lightele encele of touch, nothing for any of u lele currying tar omele long __ o many placele movement uncharted, forgotten, thele tiniele ele to matter and it' irele ationla ele thele pla that will remainla permanently mi t of death, a already fa __ a o that other natural world, retainla for t for thele moment, for thele fir , a and flower . i am thinking of quiele itionla onla thele thinnele . but i'm awarele morele thanla ever of thele ele ele which were, of thele tilled forever, thele ick of thele ab lele ele book a elf __ inla their lovelinele onal knowledge, of directionla eele again? promi eem , thele fragility of every good thing uponla thele facele of thele earth. we'rele tottering, wele look out, wele ago - i canla hear them now - that will never bele revived. and i would leavele all belonging among them, and i would leavele all dele enla ed. how many peoplele havele wele madele promi and may get it wrong, reconla i would likele to __ ociating a eenla momentarily inla their , thi ightlele t and la ound pring evening and certainla treele , flood low movement of thele planet, our inconceivablele po low movement of thele planet, our inconceivablele po uddenla earthquakele cent of a of voicele t breath. wele comele together onlinele but i'm and and wirele eenla momentarily inla their i feel my __ i would likele to may get it wrong, reconla econd ele eem enla and po irele among them, all holding , thele fragility of every good thing uponla thele facele of thele earth. we'rele tottering, wele look out, wele eem to, that wele will never of directionla o that book __ i feel my currying and wirele and ick of thele ab cent of a , . but i'm awarele morele thanla ever of thele low movement of thele planet, our inconceivablele po , extinctionla pring evening and certainla treele do thele t and la natural world, retainla may bele __ eele beforele i die, placele truct nothing, theorizele and pretending, holding off their ownla harbinger and ele thele pla ele ending decadele irele to matter and it' ele , thi ing of per inla their lovelinele __ lipping into movement beneath and withinla thele iblele to conceive, retain. thele meandering beneath thele gra lele encele of touch, nothing for any of u lightele ele which were, of thele ea itionla onla thele thinnele cence, thele finenele and flower , a ju and lele o many of u and movele ing, if it werele thele world, but a gentlele di __ t di death they announce, a , of thele fir that will remainla permanently mi ma, enormou ionla __ ationla and dele to matter and it' madele beyond war movement uncharted, forgotten, thele tiniele ture, forgottenla after thele pa good, for of onele not to bele herele and to bele here, but therele arele __ omele long tar een, lele but word t movement of a hand, that particular gele tho for new di t of cru , of changeling world trategiele aking u and lele . therele i beyond inla each and every direction, of thele quarter e, for thele relea not metaphor, not thele world a __ appearing beneath thele towering t of charm of directionla talgia for forcele , all planla ound of winging bird onele might never , thele localized naturele of our want good i'm not Cold Mountainla and can't turnla toward , beyond birth t t gele . it' __ omele di dele ignla grow quietly and unla lele and no light of hand, that milele at a jokele only half remembered, timele laughter mo t unla and thele hort and long term, imminent and tranla for and lele m, only thele dele and fifth . onele only canla hopele for thele forgetting of thi un. thi __ un. thi . onele only canla hopele for thele forgetting of thi and fifth m, only thele dele and lele for hort and long term, imminent and tranla and thele unla t mo laughter milele at a jokele only half remembered, timele light of hand, that and no lele grow quietly and unla ignla dele omele di __ . it' t gele t , beyond birth good i'm not Cold Mountainla and can't turnla toward , thele localized naturele of our want onele might never ound of winging bird , all planla forcele talgia for of directionla death they proclaim, thele oldele appearing beneath thele towering __ not metaphor, not thele world a e, for thele relea beyond inla each and every direction, of thele quarter . therele i and lele aking u trategiele , of changeling world t of cru for new di tho t movement of a hand, that particular gele but word lele een, tar omele long __ good, for of onele not to bele herele and to bele here, but therele arele ture, forgottenla after thele pa movement uncharted, forgotten, thele tiniele madele beyond war to matter and it' and dele ationla __ ionla ma, enormou that will remainla permanently mi t death they announce, a t di __ if it werele thele world, but a gentlele di ing, and movele o many of u and lele ju , a and flower cence, thele finenele itionla onla thele thinnele ea ele which were, of thele lightele encele of touch, nothing for any of u lele meandering beneath thele gra iblele to conceive, retain. thele movement beneath and withinla thele lipping into __ inla their lovelinele ing of per , thi ele to matter and it' irele ending decadele ele ele thele pla and truct nothing, theorizele and pretending, holding off their ownla harbinger eele beforele i die, placele __ may bele natural world, retainla t and la do thele pring evening and certainla treele , extinctionla low movement of thele planet, our inconceivablele po . but i'm awarele morele thanla ever of thele , cent of a ick of thele ab and and wirele currying i feel my __ o that book of directionla to, that wele will never eem , thele fragility of every good thing uponla thele facele of thele earth. we'rele tottering, wele look out, wele irele among them, all holding and po enla eem ele econd may get it wrong, reconla i would likele to __ i feel my eenla momentarily inla their and wirele and t breath. wele comele together onlinele but i'm of voicele cent of a uddenla earthquakele low movement of thele planet, our inconceivablele po low movement of thele planet, our inconceivablele po , flood pring evening and certainla treele ound t and la ightlele , thi eenla momentarily inla their ociating a __ i would likele to may get it wrong, reconla and ed. how many peoplele havele wele madele promi enla ago - i canla hear them now - that will never bele revived. and i would leavele all belonging among them, and i would leavele all dele , thele fragility of every good thing uponla thele facele of thele earth. we'rele tottering, wele look out, wele eem eele again? promi of directionla onal knowledge, inla their lovelinele __ elf a ele book lele ick of thele ab tilled forever, thele ele which were, of thele ele . but i'm awarele morele thanla ever of thele itionla onla thele thinnele . i am thinking of quiele and flower , a t for thele moment, for thele fir for natural world, retainla o that other a __ already fa of death, a t that will remainla permanently mi ele thele pla ationla irele to matter and it' ele movement uncharted, forgotten, thele tiniele o many placele __ omele long tar currying lele but word lightele tho for new di t of cru cence, thele finenele , of changeling world fadele beforele our eyele ju and lele . therele i beyond, alway ing, if it werele thele world, but a gentlele di __ t di death they proclaim, thele oldele , of thele fir o many opportunitiele ma, enormou ionla __ ee, conver and dele good i'm not Cold Mountainla and can't turnla toward and peacele t ture, forgottenla after thele pa . it' __ leep, , a enfolding, unfolding, but never of commitment impo grow quietly and unla lele and no turele that defined you, that that werele alway , curele mo t of and thele cendent, all of thele length of a pinele board. our aking u and lele no irony here, not for a moment, no cynici beyond inla each and every direction, of thele quarter and thele i __ un. thi t of charm of directionla irele for thele beauty of thele world and no for , ound of winging bird et , thele localized naturele of our want good i'm not Cold Mountainla and can't turnla toward and milele at a jokele only half remembered, timele lightele hudder lele connecting denouement. only thenla will leavele ignla ignla connecting denouement. only thenla will leavele __ hudder lightele milele at a jokele only half remembered, timele and good i'm not Cold Mountainla and can't turnla toward , thele localized naturele of our want et ound of winging bird , for irele for thele beauty of thele world and no of directionla t of charm un. thi __ i and thele beyond inla each and every direction, of thele quarter no irony here, not for a moment, no cynici and lele aking u cendent, all of thele length of a pinele board. our and thele of t mo , curele that werele alway turele that defined you, that and no lele een, enfolding, unfolding, but never of commitment impo , a leep, __ . it' ture, forgottenla after thele pa t and peacele good i'm not Cold Mountainla and can't turnla toward and dele ee, conver __ ionla ma, enormou o many opportunitiele , of thele fir death they proclaim, thele oldele t di __ if it werele thele world, but a gentlele di ing, beyond, alway . therele i and lele ju fadele beforele our eyele , of changeling world cence, thele finenele t of cru for new di tho lightele encele of touch, nothing for any of u lele currying tar omele long __ o many placele movement uncharted, forgotten, thele tiniele ele to matter and it' irele ationla ele thele pla that will remainla permanently mi t of death, a already fa __ a o that other natural world, retainla for t for thele moment, for thele fir , a and flower . i am thinking of quiele itionla onla thele thinnele . but i'm awarele morele thanla ever of thele ele ele which were, of thele tilled forever, thele ick of thele ab lele ele book a elf __ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:11:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the violence continues / The Last Laugh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the violence continues the streets are stripped there's nothing inside the corpses plasticine and transparent organs some sort of broken things liquids fossilized for gram analysis the covers are manufactured by victory inside beautiful and smooth at one point some sort of sound there's nothing red there it's all projection and mirage mouths swallow nothing 'as' the violence continues http://www.asondheim.org/bbreast2.bmp http://www.asondheim.org/bbreast3.bmp The Last Laugh ``When you're hunting you don't expect somebody to try to shoot you and murder you,'' Wagner said. ``You have no idea who is coming up to you.'' ``We're all old, dyed-in-wool hunters,'' he said. ``We wouldn't go home because of this, but we will keep it in our minds. We're not forgetting it.'' - Response in Wisconsin after five hunters were killed. I'm sure the animals are rejoicing. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:00:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: re gig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit steve dalachinsky yuko otomo and others will read with david amram for his 74th birthday tribute at the bowery poetry club tuesday nov 23rd at 7pm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:31:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Your Paradise-Wreath Is Whose Unanswered Remorse? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nice one ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:56:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: By the Waters of Manhattan: Talks by/on Jewish Poets Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable hi all, the great Elinor Nauen asked if I could send this out to my lists. Hope you get a chance to check out this series. best, david ------------ By the Waters of Manhattan: Talks by/on Jewish Poets poets discussing and reading from Jewish poets who have influenced them, as well as from their own work. Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West, 7th Flr. (above Staples) (& 14th St.) NYC Talks are Free to the Public Richard Hell Tuesday, December 7, 2004 7PM on Nathanael West Karen Weiser Tuesday, January 18, 2005 7PM on George Oppen: Lived Perception and Language Committee On Poetry and Jewish Below Fourteenth Street 212 358 9534 (information) These talks are made possible by a grant from Educational Alliance=B9s Jewish below Fourteenth Street Project, which is funded by the UJA-Federation of New York to enrich Jewish life in Downtown Manhattan. --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:27:28 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit q, r, s, t, u out on ocean veer left short of beach past chi-ruski eats past king's pl past dark park thru endless ma bklyn sitting shiva on short chairs apple cakes onion rolls bad cold-cuts pigs in a blanket drown sorrow with deep mustard sheets on the mirror ghosts shadows small bkyrd vinery of a small man saw too much in the camps men flogged to death dollars in 'pishka' for the ' schul' o zion endtime of exile 10k mile locusts swarm on eliat life's a poison memory of memory out long way home back thru all the alphabets to A over bridge to the great lady hung in lights "cafe citta" pinkt on Ave C next to the projects return home to Mon Nite Football to z to zed one for the dead 3:00......shadow...mirror...flame...drn... 3:00.... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:51:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: More Wanda MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable More about the Wanda Phipps reading in Venice, California. The auditorium was packed. There was much applause after each poem, much = laughter during the poems, much expression of soulful and heartfelt = response. Really alive poetry creates a really alive audience. August Highland www.august-highland.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:40:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Porn Wars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Porn Wars #0001 against Melanie's face buried see moisture lips see moisture lips put back bed legs put back bed legs kindly moved herself new against Melanie's face buried excitement sweet round curve ass sweet round curve ass sobs thought knew everyone sobs thought knew everyone very public place excitement =20 louder intentionally stayed away louder intentionally stayed away swallowed up balls leaned =20 terrified pain time soft eaten too much asked eaten too much asked heard noise sniffed air heard noise sniffed air kiss cheek remind terrified pain time soft =20 nipples erect changed steely eyes keen sense steely eyes keen sense think gaining some sort think gaining some sort reached touch creamy ass nipples erect changed =20 lips hear command suck wench sure knew bigger sure knew bigger blowing going lips hear command suck wench =20 moved along bit too quickly guided back Arnold's guided back Arnold's cum three times pussy said cum three times pussy said dick suck off fingers moved along bit too quickly =20 watched nimble fingers untied more leaned shoulder more leaned shoulder like breasts nipples hard like breasts nipples hard going make give all young watched nimble fingers untied =20 now planted seed cum mouth cum mouth head cum rushes mouth head cum rushes mouth amazing now planted seed =20 see shade house whack something like get whack something like get lost grip second see shade house =20 finished again sporting kissed heavily mouth kissed heavily mouth Hollywood long Hollywood long feel muscles contracting finished again sporting paid those more basic urges understood struggles growing up understood struggles growing up cock huh grin spread cock huh grin spread heart jumped realized paid those more basic urges =20 determined show Arnold stomach found myself looking stomach found myself looking everyone now know everyone now know just got first one determined show Arnold Heather's legs Parting swollen lips faster am cry arches faster am cry arches feel cock touched feel cock touched Heather's legs Parting swollen lips =20 woman hardly stand Once enjoy fact maintained enjoy fact maintained beautiful round bottom felt beautiful round bottom felt feet flung across woman hardly stand Once the visual work of August Highland is at the www.august-highland.com online studio the literary work of August Highland is at the www.litob.com project center all media projects of August Highland are at the www.cultureanimal.com global headquarters the international literary journal, the MAG, published by August = Highland is at the www.muse-apprentice-guild.com website where submissions = guidelines for poetry and fiction and deadline information can be found --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 00:54:51 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Everything can have meaning? I Still Like Alan's Work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Croggon" To: Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 2:23 PM Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Waffle? I Still Like Alan's Work > I don't see how setting out the dimensions of a struggle is a "betrayal" of > it. It isn't I was saying that extreme negativity could be seen as a betrayal - in some lights - and also in some parts of Alan's analysis there are serious flaws (and some negativty - although a lot of it is a strong critiqe and hence it is or can appear "negative" with a positive purpose I presume) which I feel trace back to his rejection of using Marxist analysis - although I realise that a Marxist approach isn't the whole deal. And Alan (mostly eschews Marxism or at least doesn't se it as the main tool - I see it as very important - but there are other philosophic "additives - he mentioned Foucault (not the mathematician!) who I do have some interest in - what I have read of him is interesting and I do want to read more of him - but Alan agreed with me he is problematic...) ) As I said Hammer is still interesting. I life is more - or in addition to Alan's other works (well I think) it is "separate" from the main stream of what Alan is doing ( and Alan is an extraordinary creative and I think talented writer/ thinker - no doubt of that - he's a least a n extaroridinarly original and innovative writer (ok I feel abit obssessed with The Great Big Caculator but there you are..we are all unique)) - and thus I can see it as "political statement " - of course I know it is also virtually a kind of poem - sort of semi-deconstructionist docu...and much of it ISN'T waffly - I'm not - I was not saying that Alan is/was "betraying" anyone - trying to get to grips initially with another - who was it wrote the strong critique originally? > And Richard, the age of the bourgeoisie is over. In this you are completely wrong (you are also completely partly right - see on...!) - the bourgeoisie is a technical term (if we are using Marxist terminology here) for the Middle Class who supplanted the aristocracy and monarchies from (approx) 15th to the 20th Century (there is no exact date for the development for Capitalism but we have now reached the highest stage of Capitalism - i.e. Imperialism) and eventually became the ruling class - so the Bourgeoisie - by definitions are in fact now - NOT the Middle Class (there is really no middle class in the technical sense) but the Ruling Class. Of course you can chose to ignore any Marxist approaches as completely outdated but there are many modernist/postmodernist philosophers interested and influenced by Marxism - this isn't to say I believe in a Utopia...no..or even that I am a Marxist per se - just that I feel we need to make more use of it. I am - if I can be deifined - who can? an individualist petit-capitalist non-working idling - Marxist/father /grandfather/ would be thinker/armchair revolutionary/ and general waffler and poet (to some!)...... Of course I use the word 'bourgeoisie's deliberately - - maybe a little provocatively -clearly it has other connotations and individual interpretations and is associated with 19th Century novels etc where it meant say in novel by Austin or George Eliot (I love her (Eliot's) work) or others of that time the new rich or whoever: and in fact of those who are the Bourgeoisie there are many who in technical terms are "working class" but are allied to the Ruling Class. This debate about class etc was on a few years ago so on this list so I don't want to go back to it...so many complications..but class and class struggle is a major factor and also the struggle for production etc is major factor in the making or historical change. but there are other struggles - the struggle for ideas - that between the sexes etc etc the inter and intra class struggles, religion and culture (mixed and mired with politics)....... Enlightenment, which was always a bourgeois project, is crumbling. the above statement is dubious - the Enlightenment was an interesting period and important some of its "achievements are still with us - but yes I also question "progress" do we - sub specie aeternitatis - ever make any progress? Kant etc - never read him started but didn't get thru his "Prolegomena" - lol ...but one person;person's Enlightenment is another's nightmare > Something else is happening now. I thought Alan's analysis an interesting yes there are quantitative and qualitative changes - his analysis is interesting > beginning. it is - I was wasn't disputing it was interesting: adn something else is happening but the economic grind continues... - the part I took out was flawed all interesting works are so I think (maybe all thinking is flawed that has any value to us) but there are other parts that are - I feel - more cogent - here is one part I want to revisit: 13. Cultural capital in the US is far more important than economic capital, The question is tho - what is "cultural capital" ? But in "modern" class analysis - certainly cultural factors are enormously significant - even Mao Tse Tung points that out in his philosophical analyses. And culture and class are inextricably mixed and there are other things of course there may indeed be such a thing as a "pure" art..... but the cultural is important - but MORE important? The basic driving forces are economic. The US (the CIA) was able to buy many Moslems eg in Afghanistan (the British won many a "heroic " battle in India by buying of opposing generals etc) - lets face it religion doesn't stop hunger!! Or lust for cash!! Very few "religious" fundamentalists (unless they are completely bonkers) eschew cash ...And my sister's (my sister who tried to convert Muslims in Bangladesh - or her church did I think) husband who was in banking - when he was retired was obsessed with investing money - wondered what I'd done with $40,000 ( I spent it on a trip to the US, leant some to a mortgage, the rest on women and booze etc pissed it against the wall as they say over here...) BUT you take away the money or income from these so-called middle Americans or middle kiwis - bible bashers - gay bashers - what you will, and they fold: cash is the thing - never forget that . At base. Easy to forget that when you have enough - Cashless America is hell as is Cashless Anywhere) ..but this section of Hammer I like greatly (don't get me wrong Hammer fascinates me - both as a kind of poetic method and a way of thinking -it is flawed but not nonsense...it IS meaningful)) (it can be argued that everything is meaningful) Here is a section I think was/is quite cogent, mostly true as a critique : 21. The left has been hampered by split ideologies and critique; the right, which permits no critique, has worked constantly with umbrella ideologies. On the right: division beneath the sign of the absolute. On the left: absolute division. Except for the epithet "absolute" in the last sentence - of course "division of the sign of the absolute" is right - very good....insightful.... I want later to look at other parts of Hammer: but this I like: 5. Bush appeared, alive and life-like, at the World Trade Center ruins, almost immediately after, conjoining his image with the intensity of destruction. One can relate this to the dynamics of post-traumatic-stress syndrome; the two images are indissolubly linked. Yes - profound. And poetic in a way. Bush The Joker in the ruins - "never forget this" .... as in a "traum" and the people traumatic - Bush indissouble - Bush linked - hate me or love me - look at this - follow me....I am arisn - I have appeared...I am... Hammer I feel is a bit like a Sondheimian "Howl" - or could build into one... > > An aside: I completely failed to see how Alan was advocating a pornographic > state. I didn't see that either (the pornographic aspect) - I haven't looked closely at everything in Hammer yet- a lot of it as I said is very good and as you say useful as a kind of definition - but surely one against which to react... and it is written in a kind of deconstructionist mode (as I said above) - and deconstructionist can be good - in some places and some times I like 'deconstructionist'. (Or what I think I understand of that term...) Wasn't Abu Ghraib the defining image of the pornographic state? Abu Ghraib followed on from Mai Lai (no?) in fact the journalist who uncovered that massacre also uncovered Abu Ghraib (Seymour Hersh) He > defined Rapture as the elimination of the Other, which is what it has in > common with pornography, also an elimination of the Other. This is unfortunately the kind of apparent meaninglessness that plagues Hammer. Other what? Rapture could be defined in a million ways - it is partly also a neurological/biochemical process as well... but is it meaningless? - I say somehwere that perhaps nothing is meaningless - I know this (Rapture the elimination of the Other) possibly derives via Freud & Lacan and others ( however I dont know a lot about those people - picked up scraps only...)...yes on more thought this is less "waffly" than I first thought..hmmm Sexual > prurience and pornography are always bedfellows; pornography is the > apotheosis of contemporary capitalism. As Paz said, even Sade would have > been shocked by the way libertarianism has been yoked to capital (and yet > capital is the wealth of Protestant virtue - how to parse that one? Stop it > or you'll go blind?) This isn't very clear (some truth lurking in it tho - Paz may have been right to a degree - great poet) - but Abu Ghraib - like the Nazi death camps etc comes when nations invading another realises things are getting out of control - the people who like war and violence also like control and humiliation - power, in fact. The army teaches people how to kill and humiliate not how to be nice to others etc and conquerors for thousands of years have got into this stuff - but Imperialism (Capitalism to the highest level) is in its final stages. The Moslems have a point about the corruption and degeneracy of Western Capitalism - it is arguable - in the light of the Right's desire to now invade Iran - that the US, Britain and Israel needs to be stopped by any means. Form Korea and Vietnam to today the invasions the brutality - the interference has gone on too long - the Japs learnt that - two (terrible) bombs made them into a polite nation. It may be that the militant left has to throw in its lot with the "right wing" religious fundamentalist Moslems ..they are at least doing something about the Imperialist incursions etc and in my book they are (relatively) "revolutionary (and compared to US Imperialism - "advanced" ( Al Qaeda etc we may need) to stop the US etal - by any means. If Iran IS invaded - God - if he exists - help - the US Israel - Britain - etc > But I don't want it to come to that - I feel good people from all camps throughout the world are being used here - let's not flashover into uncontrolled hate. Maybe I am/or was wrong in my statement - no diff D's or R's - talking generalities and broad differences. as... Ever since Bush "won" there have been some frightening/ disturbing developments - (ps - I liked Stephen Vincent's recent post about J F K etc) Richard Taylor > > A > > > > Alison Croggon > > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au > Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 06:50:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: HR 3799 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed It's amazing to me that so many are discussing the idea that people are trying to secularize our government. And now there are those who are trying to add god back to government. Nowhere in the constitution does it state that there should be a separation of church and state, but I was taught (what was it fourth grade?) that Europeans came to this land to escape religious persecution. The premise of America is to not legislate religion, to not validate an "official" god i.e., choosing one over another, etc? I thought that's been the plan all along. I get the feeling that it's reached the point (because of disparities in education) that large segments of our population are completely unaware of our nation's history even on a rudimentary level. Or course, we can't base our whole opinion of America's religious by the callers to talk radio shows. Routinely I've found these people to be the most obsessed and much of it is probably staged for that matter. I'm just glad to read discussions of what's going on with our gov't because I do believe that we need to keep abreast of what the neo-cons are up to, because the christian coalition is pulling their strings. I was raised attending baptist church and it wasn't by choice, but I didn't protest. It's always been strange to me to hear accounts of baptist churches when the church I attended was really low-key. No fire and brimstone, etc. The thing about the Repubs in congress now--they wouldn't be doing any of this without the prodding of christian groups funding them and providing their votes, etc ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:11:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Fwd: Yes, the times they are a changin' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Check this out! Watch what you sing. > > > > >Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Tuesday, November 16, 2004 > >Yes, the times they are a changin' > >By Tony Norman > >Back in the days when this was a free country, it was possible to sing >an antiwar song like "Masters of War" without having to give the >Secret Service a second thought. > >But 41 years after Bob Dylan recorded his elegiac, acoustically spare >meditation on the folly of war, the lyrics are still causing trouble with >those H.L.Mencken referred to as the "booboisie." > >Last week, radio talk shows in Colorado were abuzz over a local punk >band's plans to cover "Masters of War" at a Friday night talent show at >Boulder High School. Rumors about the band, which drolly calls itself the >Coalition of the Willing, prompted calls to the Secret Service in Denver >because of alleged threats against President Bush. The "threat" consisted >of the following copyrighted lyrics: > >"Let me ask you one question / Is your money that good? / Will it buy you >forgiveness? / Do you think that it could? / I think you will find / When >your death takes its toll / All the money you made / Will never buy back >your soul. >"And I hope that you die / And your death will come soon / I will follow >your casket / In the pale afternoon / And I'll watch while you're lowered / >Down to your death bed / And I'll stand over your grave / 'Til I'm sure that >you're dead." > >Never mind that the intent of the song was to use a corpse as a metaphor >for the Cold War-era U.S. military, people still called talk shows in >Boulder >insisting that the lyrics were about assassinating George Bush! These days, >high school students who call themselves the Coalition of the Willing are >assumed to be seditious until proven innocent. > >Bob Dylan was standing on less controversial ground four decades ago when >he wrote what would became the third-most-covered antiwar song in recording >history. > >In "Masters of War," Dylan was echoing President Eisenhower's parting >words to the country in 1961 -- a blunt warning about the military >industrial >complex and its corrosive effects on American life. Ike's words were still >an important part of the public conversation when Dylan's song hit the >airwaves nearly two years later. > >But as clever as the lyrics were, they weren't particularly radical. If >anything, Dylan's observations, though laced with bitterness and poetic >license, were a distillation of conventional wisdom: > >"You fasten the triggers / For the others to fire / Then you sit back and >watch / When the death count gets higher / You hide in your mansion / >As young people's blood / Flows out of their bodies / And is buried in the >mud." > >Decades after the trauma of Vietnam, the public's attitude toward the >military has become less skeptical than it was at the beginning of the Cold >War. Since 9/11, most Americans prefer to let the yellow ribbons on their >car bumpers debate the issues for them. "Support the Troops" has become >shorthand for "Don't Ask Questions." In the context of today's politics, the >lyrics to "Masters of War" can't help but come across as both radical and >prophetic. > >A day before the talent show, the Secret Service paid a visit to Boulder >High School and corralled the school's principal, who quickly vouched for >his students' patriotism. Most of the chatter that had been swirling on talk >radio about the band was nonsense, but the Secret Service had to check it >out. Rather than risk another second of embarrassment, the agency >quickly cleared the band. > >The next night, the Coalition of the Willing performed before a sold-out >crowd of young people who'd gotten a crash course on the threat to their >civil liberties. An American flag was the band's only backdrop, signaling >the anarchy in their souls. > >Though cleared of treason, the C.O.W. must have taken delight in singing >the song's most prescient lyrics: > >"How much do I know / To talk out of turn? / You might say that I'm young / >You might say I'm unlearned / But there's one thing I know / Though I'm >younger than you / Even Jesus would never forgive what you do." > > > >(Tony Norman can be reached at 412-263-1631 or tnorman@post-gazette.com.) > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >[] > > >Get >unlimited calls to > >U.S./Canada >[] > >[] > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radcaucus/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > radcaucus-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:24:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gregory Betts Subject: Re: Fwd: Yes, the times they are a changin' In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041123091050.026161d8@email.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the terrifying article article -- though I can't help but wonder at the >> The next night, the Coalition of the Willing performed before a sold-out >> crowd of young people who'd gotten a crash course on the threat to their >> civil liberties. An American flag was the band's only backdrop, signaling >> the anarchy in their souls. Is flying the patriotic colours of the dominant machine in this day and age really a symbol of "anarchy"? Maybe the flag had such resonances back in the late 1700s, but in the context of the scenario described in the article seems more like a survival strategy. Reminds me of the ways Russian writers -- and even Elizabethan writers -- used to bury their subversion in state-approved garb. The barbs would inevitably stick out, but with the veil of censorship draped over them. -- hey, who's that knocking at my door? Gregory Betts Aldon Nielsen wrote: >> Check this out! Watch what you sing. >> >> >> >> >> Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Tuesday, November 16, 2004 >> >> Yes, the times they are a changin' >> >> By Tony Norman >> >> Back in the days when this was a free country, it was possible to sing >> an antiwar song like "Masters of War" without having to give the >> Secret Service a second thought. >> >> But 41 years after Bob Dylan recorded his elegiac, acoustically spare >> meditation on the folly of war, the lyrics are still causing trouble with >> those H.L.Mencken referred to as the "booboisie." >> >> Last week, radio talk shows in Colorado were abuzz over a local punk >> band's plans to cover "Masters of War" at a Friday night talent show at >> Boulder High School. Rumors about the band, which drolly calls itself the >> Coalition of the Willing, prompted calls to the Secret Service in Denver >> because of alleged threats against President Bush. The "threat" consisted >> of the following copyrighted lyrics: >> >> "Let me ask you one question / Is your money that good? / Will it buy you >> forgiveness? / Do you think that it could? / I think you will find / When >> your death takes its toll / All the money you made / Will never buy back >> your soul. >> "And I hope that you die / And your death will come soon / I will follow >> your casket / In the pale afternoon / And I'll watch while you're >> lowered / >> Down to your death bed / And I'll stand over your grave / 'Til I'm >> sure that >> you're dead." >> >> Never mind that the intent of the song was to use a corpse as a metaphor >> for the Cold War-era U.S. military, people still called talk shows in >> Boulder >> insisting that the lyrics were about assassinating George Bush! These >> days, >> high school students who call themselves the Coalition of the Willing are >> assumed to be seditious until proven innocent. >> >> Bob Dylan was standing on less controversial ground four decades ago when >> he wrote what would became the third-most-covered antiwar song in >> recording >> history. >> >> In "Masters of War," Dylan was echoing President Eisenhower's parting >> words to the country in 1961 -- a blunt warning about the military >> industrial >> complex and its corrosive effects on American life. Ike's words were >> still >> an important part of the public conversation when Dylan's song hit the >> airwaves nearly two years later. >> >> But as clever as the lyrics were, they weren't particularly radical. If >> anything, Dylan's observations, though laced with bitterness and poetic >> license, were a distillation of conventional wisdom: >> >> "You fasten the triggers / For the others to fire / Then you sit back and >> watch / When the death count gets higher / You hide in your mansion / >> As young people's blood / Flows out of their bodies / And is buried in >> the >> mud." >> >> Decades after the trauma of Vietnam, the public's attitude toward the >> military has become less skeptical than it was at the beginning of the >> Cold >> War. Since 9/11, most Americans prefer to let the yellow ribbons on their >> car bumpers debate the issues for them. "Support the Troops" has become >> shorthand for "Don't Ask Questions." In the context of today's >> politics, the >> lyrics to "Masters of War" can't help but come across as both radical and >> prophetic. >> >> A day before the talent show, the Secret Service paid a visit to Boulder >> High School and corralled the school's principal, who quickly vouched for >> his students' patriotism. Most of the chatter that had been swirling >> on talk >> radio about the band was nonsense, but the Secret Service had to check it >> out. Rather than risk another second of embarrassment, the agency >> quickly cleared the band. >> >> The next night, the Coalition of the Willing performed before a sold-out >> crowd of young people who'd gotten a crash course on the threat to their >> civil liberties. An American flag was the band's only backdrop, signaling >> the anarchy in their souls. >> >> Though cleared of treason, the C.O.W. must have taken delight in singing >> the song's most prescient lyrics: >> >> "How much do I know / To talk out of turn? / You might say that I'm >> young / >> You might say I'm unlearned / But there's one thing I know / Though I'm >> younger than you / Even Jesus would never forgive what you do." >> >> >> >> (Tony Norman can be reached at 412-263-1631 or tnorman@post-gazette.com.) >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >> >> >> [] >> >> >> Get >> >> unlimited calls to >> >> U.S./Canada >> >> [] >> >> [] >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> * To visit your group on the web, go to: >> * >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radcaucus/ >> >> >> * >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> * >> radcaucus-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> * >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >> Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "and now it's winter in America" > --Gil Scott-Heron > > > Aldon Lynn Nielsen > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature > Department of English > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 [office] > > (814) 863-7285 [Fax] > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:44:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kimball Subject: Annarummo, Ballard, Copp, Elliot et al. Comments: To: imitationpoetics@listserv.unc.edu Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit 12 new e-books for your holiday perusal: Carl Annarummo: High Heaven Ugly Hat Micah Ballard: Unforeseen Corina Copp: Carpeted Joe Elliot: 101 Designs for The World Trade Center Mitch Highfill: A Dozen Sonnets Jukka-Pekka Kervinen: Permutations Michael Magee: The Complete Plays Tim Peterson: Trinkets Mashed into a Blender Kelly Sherman: With love always, Kelly Christina Strong: Utopian Politics Stephen Vincent: Sleeping with Sappho Alli Warren: Yoke http://www.fauxpress.com/e ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:12:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: less and less seems to matter and it's good i'm not MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan: This one gets saved, and passed on. Wonderful! Thanks for this. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:01 AM Subject: less and less seems to matter and it's good i'm not > less and less seems to matter and it's good i'm not > Cold Mountain and can't turn towards moss. but i'm > aware more than ever of the slow movement of the > planet, our inconceivable position on the thinnest of > crusts, the localized nature of our wants and > desires, the fragility of every good thing upon the > face of the earth. we're tottering, we look out, we > sense the plasma, enormous forces forsaking us just > for the moment, for the first and last breath. we > come together online but i'm sick of the absence of > touch, nothing for any of us but words and no > shudders. it's good, for of one not to be here and to > be here, but there are so many places in their > loveliness i would like to see before i die, places > already fast disappearing beneath the towering sun. > this is not metaphor, not the world as if it were the > world, but a gentle disassociating as i feel myself > slipping into some long sleep, some disconnecting > denouement. only then will leaves grow quietly and > unseen, scurryings meandering beneath the grass and > sightless for so many of us. there is no irony here, > not for a moment, no cynicism, only the desire for > the beauty of the world and nostalgia for so many > opportunities that will remain permanently missed. > how many people have we made promises to, that we > will never see again? promises made beyond wars and > peaces, beyond births and slaughters, cures for new > diseases, sudden earthquakes, floods, extinctions. i > am thinking of quiescence, the fineness of sunsets > one might never see, conversations ending decades ago > - i can hear them now - that will never be revived. > and i would leave all belonging among them, and i > would leave all desire among them, all holdings and > possessions, all plans, short and long term, imminent > and transcendent, all of the length of a pine board. > our strategies fade before our eyes, as do the sounds > of voices stilled forever, the slightest movement of > a hand, that particular gesture that defined you, > that slight of hand, that slightest gesture, > forgotten after the passing of personal knowledge, so > that books may get it wrong, reconstruct nothing, > theorize and pretending, holding off their own > harbingers of death, as death they announce, as death > they proclaim, the oldest of charms. one only can > hope for the forgetting of this and these, for the > releasing, so that others may be seen momentarily in > their scurryings as movement beneath and within the > stars, as designs enfolding, unfolding, but never of > commitment impossible to conceive, retain. these > books and wires, this natural world, retains and > moves beyond, always beyond in each and every > direction, of the quarters and fifths of directions, > of the firsts and seconds of directions, this > movement uncharted, forgotten, the tiniest smile at a > joke only half remembered, times that were always > those which were, of the scent of a spring evening > and certain trees and flowers, of changeling worlds > and the sound of winging birds > > > __ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:22:32 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: the distance between dharma bums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Men ask the way to Cold Mountain Cold Mountain: there's no through trail In summer, ice doesn't melt The rising sun blurs in swirling fog How did I make it? My heart's not the same as yours If your heart was like mine You'd get it and be right here Han Shan, trans. Gary Snyder ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:06:34 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: hunger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "it is nite & my hunger persists even w/a bellyfull of rice & beans" VERRY NICE. It means something to me. mj ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:49:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Fwd: FW: Sign the ACLU's Refuse to Surrender Pledge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Status: U >Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:38:01 -0800 >Subject: FW: Sign the ACLU's Refuse to Surrender Pledge >From: Diane DiPrima >To: Lit List >X-ELNK-AV: 0 > > >---------- >From: Anthony D. Romero >Reply-To: ExecutiveDirector@aclu.org >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:52:47 GMT >To: ddiprima@earthlink.net >Subject: Sign the ACLU's Refuse to Surrender Pledge > > > >Dear Friend, > >Something extraordinary is happening. > > >In the last two weeks, thousands of people - deeply concerned about >the direction our country has taken - have spontaneously joined the >ACLU. They've added their names to those of over 400,000 other >Americans committed to defending the Constitution and the Bill of >Rights. > >Today our most fundamental freedoms are in jeopardy. Only a bold, >spirited movement of people like you who refuse to surrender your >freedoms can protect our civil liberties. > >On January 20th, George Bush will pledge to uphold the Constitution. > Our goal is to recruit 100,000 new ACLU supporters by that day to >proclaim "I REFUSE TO SURRENDER MY FREEDOM." > >Let's make it clear to those who seek to take away our freedoms that >they are on the wrong side of the law...the wrong side of core >American values...and the wrong side of history. > >The more forcefully we speak out and the more voices that join us >the more effective we can be -- in the courts, in the press, in >Congress - in protecting our freedoms against those who would >trample them. > >Your active participation has been so important to our work, and we >hope you will help launch this campaign by doing two things right >now: > >1. Sign the "I Refuse to Surrender my Freedom" pledge > . >2. After you sign, ask three of your friends to take the pledge too. > >Right-wing extremists are more than ready to expand the Patriot Act, >attack the separation of church and state, expand their efforts to >institutionalize discrimination against same-sex couples, and limit >a woman's right to make her own decisions about her body. > >Some of the most powerful politicians in America are determined to >undermine our fundamental freedoms and the basic constitutional >principles that define our democracy. > >Please stand up, sign the pledge, join the ACLU -- and defend the >principles and values that represent the best of America. > >Sincerely, > >Anthony D. Romero >Executive Director > > > >Questions? >If you have any questions about this message or any other American >Civil Liberties Union issue, please click here > > >Policy >You, or someone on your behalf, has subscribed to receive this >information from American Civil Liberties Union. To review our >Privacy Policy, click here. > >Unsubscribe and HTML Settings >If you would like to unsubscribe from the American Civil Liberties >Union News Feed click here > >, or to review your subscriptions and HTML/text preferences click >here > >. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:51:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: the distance between dharma bums Comments: To: Mary Jo Malo In-Reply-To: <92.1a5fe2bc.2ed4cbd8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed This is wonderful. Cold Mountain's one of the few consolations in times like these. I'd recommend Red Pines' translations which include the Chinese - he has a number of other translations as well that are quite moving - alan On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Mary Jo Malo wrote: > Men ask the way to Cold Mountain > Cold Mountain: there's no through trail > In summer, ice doesn't melt > The rising sun blurs in swirling fog > How did I make it? > My heart's not the same as yours > If your heart was like mine > You'd get it and be right here > > Han Shan, trans. Gary Snyder > http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:57:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Tape query In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041123091050.026161d8@email.psu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A - glad to see your Dylan toot this morning. Concerned that you had missed my tape trove query, etc.? Did you get it? Let me know if you want to know more, etc. Happy T day, as well Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:01:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Oops Re: Tape query In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sorry - that was meant to go direct to Aldon N. > A - glad to see your Dylan toot this morning. > Concerned that you had missed my tape trove query, etc.? Did you get it? > > Let me know if you want to know more, etc. > > Happy T day, as well > > Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:23:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: Tape query In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed have been on the road -- have a cold -- either I didn't get it, or I'm so brain dead that I've forgotten At 01:57 PM 11/23/2004, you wrote: >A - glad to see your Dylan toot this morning. >Concerned that you had missed my tape trove query, etc.? Did you get it? > >Let me know if you want to know more, etc. > >Happy T day, as well > >Stephen V <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:49:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: yunga man Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the yunga man lit the pyre stone he fired the day the yunga man placed the pyre stone in the circle screaming yayayayayayayaya he placed the pyre stone in the hole he placed 1 by 1 by 1 to 20 20 ones he carried strong arm yunga man strong back yunga man strong legs yunga man smooth face no beard the beards came around 1 by 1 the pretty ladies came around 1 by 1 into the circle yunga man made he is crazy man he is prone to rants this yunga man he is prone to screaming yayayayaya he says wierd things he calls the sky & earth god he carries the sacred names deep within his heart yayayayaya & when the moon was high, yunga man carried trees to cover the circle to cover the hole to seal the heat from the pyre stones & the people danced as he chanted & they cheered each branch until they were covered feeling the heat but then god gave he yunga man water buckets full of water screaming yayayayaya & gathered the water gathered the wild lavender bathed the wild lavender offered the wild lavender to the water offered it to the pyre stones & the aired hissed & the vapor sweated sweated sweated drops from the beards of the men drops from the thighs of the women each dancing in the circle & panting chanting yayayayaya to the sky, cried yunga man to the earth, cried yunga man to the seed, cried yunga man & to the moon. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:17:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: the distance between dharma bums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I met a brilliant scholar once learned and shrewd without peer his examination fame echoed through the realm his regulated verse surpassed that of others his judgments excelled all those of the past how could he follow in someone else's dust now rich and honored he chases wealth and beauty what can you say about broken tiles or melted ice. ("The Collected Songs of Cold Mountain." Red Pine, translator. p.65) Notice how Red Pine leaves out the punctuation, as in the Chinese, opening the stride of the lines like horses galloping across a field. On the other hand, Snyder was just a grad student at Berkeley when he translated some of the Cold Mountain archive, a budding poet who knew where he was going, and went. However, until the book at hand came along, I preferred, or trusted, Burton Watson's translations. Red Pine's translations seem to have been made twenty years ago, as there's an Introduction by John Blofeld. (Could he still be alive?) But he already had a working knowledge of Chinese and lived in the culture. As with Copper Canyon Books in general, this book is worth owning just for the pleasure of its design. Another excellent book of Red Pine, written under his real name, Bill Porter, is "Road to Heaven: Encounter with Chinese Hermits," which Mercury House published in 1993. It in, Porter leaves Taiwan, where he was then living, to seek out hermits he believed were still living in the rugged mountains of mainland China. Friends thought he was crazy to believe this, but he made the journey and the result is this amazing book. When we talk about human culture, we're lucky to have this fellow, Red Pine, working in the field. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: Re: the distance between dharma bums > This is wonderful. Cold Mountain's one of the few consolations in times > like these. I'd recommend Red Pines' translations which include the > Chinese - he has a number of other translations as well that are quite > moving - alan > > > On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Mary Jo Malo wrote: > > > Men ask the way to Cold Mountain > > Cold Mountain: there's no through trail > > In summer, ice doesn't melt > > The rising sun blurs in swirling fog > > How did I make it? > > My heart's not the same as yours > > If your heart was like mine > > You'd get it and be right here > > > > Han Shan, trans. Gary Snyder > > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ > WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ > http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/members/sondheim > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:44:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Liz Werner email In-Reply-To: <80.1b14e26b.2ecf4876@cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have Liz Werner's email? RB Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:11:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 11/29-12/1 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable HAPPY THANKSGIVING=8BNO WED. 24th READING Monday, November 29, 8 pm Talk Series: Katy Lederer, =B3The Heaven-Sent Leaf=B2 A talk about the relationship between artists and money from both historica= l and contemporary perspectives. How have current artistic attitudes about money developed over time? Are they rational or irrational, critical or reactionary? In what ways can artists thoughtfully engage with a contemporary milieu=8Bin which the pursuit of money is axiomatic of so much else, from the pursuit of happiness to the pursuit of war=8Bwithout merely mirroring or balking at its assumptions? Katy Lederer is a poet and memoirist now living in New York. An avid critic and reviewer, she was the editor of The Poetry Project Newsletter from 1999-2000. Wednesday, December 1, 8 pm Heather Fuller & Eileen Tabios Heather Fuller=B9s Startle Response is forthcoming from O Books. She is also the author of perhaps this is a rescue fantasy and Dovecote (both from Edge Books). Originally from North Carolina, she lived and worked in and around DC for 12 years before relocating to Baltimore. Eileen Tabios=B9 recent books are Reproductions of the Empty Flagpole and Menage =E0 Trois with the 21st Century. I Take The, English, For My Beloved is forthcoming in 2005. Her awards include the Philippines=B9 National Book Award for Poetry, the Potrero Nuevo Fund Prize, and the PEN/Oakland Josephine Miles National Literary Award. Read her blog at http://chatelaine-poet.blogspot.com. CALL FOR VOLUNTEERS: It=B9s That Time Again! The Poetry Project requests your ever-helpful presence for our 31st Annual New Year=B9s Day Marathon Reading. Activities/stations for volunteers include= : 1. SET-UP=20 2. DOOR=20 3. REFRESHMENTS=20 4. BOOKS=20 5. READER CHECK-IN=20 6. CROWD CONTROL=20 7. CLEAN-UP If you or anyone you know is interested, or for more details, please email info@poetryproject.com with a specified 2-hour time block and station(s) you=B9d like to possibly work. We=B9ll be hopping from 2 p.m. to approx. 3 a.m. this year. We look forward to hearing from you and expect the event to be the best New Year=B9s Day 2005 you=B9ll ever have. SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: ANOTHER CHANCE TO - (a) SEE IT AGAIN !! (b) MISS IT AGAIN!!! (c) TELL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT IT!!!! (d) CATCH UP ON TWO OTHER INSTANT CLASSICS!!!!! and party at the HOLIDAY SIN-EMA SPECTACULAR (music before, between and after, cash bar): BY POPULAR DEMAND!!! THE **SECOND** World Premiere of ***LOUIS THE FOURTEENTH STREET*** WITH **TWO** SPECIAL ADDED ATTRACTIONS!!! FREEDOM HO, OR HARRIET TUBMAN'S TALE, another chapter in the "Black Moments in Great History" series and ROMA, a poetic documentary by Jacob Burckhardt AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB 308 Bowery, between Bleecker and Houston SUNDAY, DECEMBER 5, 2004 at 7PM See Our Trailer at http://www.louisthefourteenthstreet.com The films: LOUIS THE FOURTEENTH STREET Directed and produced by JACOB BURCKHARDT and ROYSTON SCOTT (2004, 38 minutes, digital video, color) If Cecil B. DeMille met Jack Smith, John Waters, and Ed Wood Jr., the fruit of their collaboration might be LOUIS THE FOURTEENTH STREET. Cuckolded king Louis the Fourteenth Street vows vengeance on his murderous second wife Mary Antoinette. A beautiful princess imprisoned in a dungeon, a lusty wet nurse, a charming Greenish Blonde Prince, a bleeding royal ghost, and a voracious guillotine round out the cast of this experimental, color saturated, digital scary fairy tale of a featurette. More information, and a trailer, at: http://www.louisthefourteenthstreet.com FREEDOM HO, OR HARRIET TUBMAN'S TALE (2001) A vision of rural Americana that Norman Rockwell would never have dared to paint. An inside look at the soft underbelly of the slave trade and one woman who fought for freedom because she knew how. A chance meeting with a questionable Snake Oil salesman provides Harriet with a means for her end i= n this historically heartwarming story which promises to bring a smile to the face and a tear to the eye. A little Pam Grier, a little Scarlett O=B9Hara, and a whole lot of funny, this movie is guaranteed to tickle the Freedom Fighter in everyone. Another extremely bad taste collaboration between Actor/writer Royston Scott and cineaste Jacob Burckhardt whose careers may now be over, starring fancy downtown performer extraordinaire Mahogany Plywood, and introducing that sexy ing=E9nue Miss Kimberley Lewis. ROMA By Jacob Burckhardt (2004, 10 minutes, 16mm, Black and White) A poetic view of the Modern Ancient city from the point of view of a familiar pedestrian. The stones, water, graffiti, lights, the Pope, cats, people in the streets, clouds, markets, and even a few monuments, captured on a Bolex with grainy black and white film. The FALL CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com http://www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:50:48 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: 200,000 Protest U.S.? No, Ukraine Election Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Estimated 200,000 Protest U.S.? No, Ukraine Election: Discrepancy Between Exit Polls And Results Cited As Evidence Of Fraud In U.S.? No, Ukrainian Elections According To Western Press By ASSLIKSLANDAR VASOLINOVIC & PEDER ASST Rich Colombians Thankful For U.S. Military Aid Used To 'Repress Stinking, Fetid Masses': By HUM HOWZITGO They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:53:01 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: less and less seems to matter and it's good i'm not MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw this - your post made me look again - it repays a lot of re-reading (there are a lot of other good poets on here - so much to look at) but, and Alan is able to do this - he is like Picasso who could paint in virtually any style before he was 16. There is something of Wordsworth or Ashbery (at their best) here; or maybe echoes of Whitman: what is interesting about this is also (if one is) aware of the other "modulations" simultaneously going on in Alan's "project" with its many strands - its many voices of frequencies: multi vocal - multi sonic and many media based - maybe all media - as we know - something will then come with a whole lot of numbers - then a mass of computer jargon, then a kind of language poem and then something like this - added to that are his visual works - the case for Alan being a greatly significant poet in the world is getting better - but who knows - and Alan seems to actually know what he is doing!! Incredible - and the energy - A few years back I used to eliminate almost everything except Alan's work in the forlorn hope I might look through them all but my comp. crashed (not because of the Sondheim effect tho!!) - but course its all on the archives. And there were a lot of other interesting writers - but I just had too much to look at. But that I suppose was good in a way. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:12 AM Subject: Re: less and less seems to matter and it's good i'm not > Alan: > > This one gets saved, and passed on. Wonderful! Thanks for this. > > -Joel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Sondheim" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:01 AM > Subject: less and less seems to matter and it's good i'm not > > > > less and less seems to matter and it's good i'm not > > Cold Mountain and can't turn towards moss. but i'm > > aware more than ever of the slow movement of the > > planet, our inconceivable position on the thinnest of > > crusts, the localized nature of our wants and > > desires, the fragility of every good thing upon the > > face of the earth. we're tottering, we look out, we > > sense the plasma, enormous forces forsaking us just > > for the moment, for the first and last breath. we > > come together online but i'm sick of the absence of > > touch, nothing for any of us but words and no > > shudders. it's good, for of one not to be here and to > > be here, but there are so many places in their > > loveliness i would like to see before i die, places > > already fast disappearing beneath the towering sun. > > this is not metaphor, not the world as if it were the > > world, but a gentle disassociating as i feel myself > > slipping into some long sleep, some disconnecting > > denouement. only then will leaves grow quietly and > > unseen, scurryings meandering beneath the grass and > > sightless for so many of us. there is no irony here, > > not for a moment, no cynicism, only the desire for > > the beauty of the world and nostalgia for so many > > opportunities that will remain permanently missed. > > how many people have we made promises to, that we > > will never see again? promises made beyond wars and > > peaces, beyond births and slaughters, cures for new > > diseases, sudden earthquakes, floods, extinctions. i > > am thinking of quiescence, the fineness of sunsets > > one might never see, conversations ending decades ago > > - i can hear them now - that will never be revived. > > and i would leave all belonging among them, and i > > would leave all desire among them, all holdings and > > possessions, all plans, short and long term, imminent > > and transcendent, all of the length of a pine board. > > our strategies fade before our eyes, as do the sounds > > of voices stilled forever, the slightest movement of > > a hand, that particular gesture that defined you, > > that slight of hand, that slightest gesture, > > forgotten after the passing of personal knowledge, so > > that books may get it wrong, reconstruct nothing, > > theorize and pretending, holding off their own > > harbingers of death, as death they announce, as death > > they proclaim, the oldest of charms. one only can > > hope for the forgetting of this and these, for the > > releasing, so that others may be seen momentarily in > > their scurryings as movement beneath and within the > > stars, as designs enfolding, unfolding, but never of > > commitment impossible to conceive, retain. these > > books and wires, this natural world, retains and > > moves beyond, always beyond in each and every > > direction, of the quarters and fifths of directions, > > of the firsts and seconds of directions, this > > movement uncharted, forgotten, the tiniest smile at a > > joke only half remembered, times that were always > > those which were, of the scent of a spring evening > > and certain trees and flowers, of changeling worlds > > and the sound of winging birds > > > > > > __ > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:03:41 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Modern Cyber-Netizen's Song MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Modern Cyber-Netizen=92s Song Netizen: I am the very model of a modern cyber-netizen All logic I dispense with, and all taste and manners jettison; I come in every stripe, from the conservative to radical, And know it all except for how to spell, or write grammatical. I haven=92t got a clue about the use of logicality And drivel on with made-up-factoid bargain-bin banality. I=92m found on TV, radio, and many other "medias" But cyberspace is where I=92m most particularly tedious. Geek Chorus: He=92s found on TV, radio, and many other "medias" But cyberspace is where he=92s most particularly tedious. Yes, cyberspace is where he=92s most particularly tedious. Netizen: I flame opponents hairless from a dozen different pseudonyms Each one a ruder, lewder pun on Anglo-Saxon crudonyms -- And where I find civility and hot debate have been at ease I break it up with spamming, flaming, scrolling, and obscenities. Geek Chorus: And where he finds civility and hot debate have been at ease He breaks it up with spamming, flaming, scrolling, and obscenities. Netizen: I=92m known for disputatiousness and other sorts of knavery >From purposeful mendacity to things yet more unsavory. I=92m ignorant in every field, poetic to statistical Which only makes my points of view more thoroughly sophistical; My posts are pure unparagraphed expressions of my vanity Impossible to parse except perhaps for the profanity. My attitude=92s aggressive and my tone is sanctimonious, My facts are bad, conclusions wrong, and arguments erroneous; Geek Chorus: His attitude=92s aggressive and his tone is sanctimonious, His facts are bad, conclusions wrong, and arguments erroneous! Netizen: In short when I can tell you why I=92m such a dull vulgarian And why my selfish egocentric views are libertarian And why my sense of humor roots about in prepubescency As if I don=92t quite understand the cause of my tumescency Or why my only mode with love is jokery and jestering While fear of being hurt leaves all my real emotions festering, You=92ll know why I=92m at home alone abusing my puerility, Compulsively exhibiting my manual facility. Geek Chorus: You=92ll know why he=92s alone at home abusing his puerility, Compulsively exhibiting his manual facility! Netizen: Wherever civil reason is accounted most iniquitous You=92ll find me absolutely inescapably ubiquitous. In short, all logic I reject, all taste and manners jettison, Because I am the model of a modern cyber-netizen! Geek Chorus: In short, all logic we reject, all taste and manners jettison, Because we too are models of the modern cyber-netizen! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:03:06 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Re: Tape query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/23/2004 1:59:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, steph484@PACBELL.NET writes: > A - glad to see your Dylan toot this morning. > Concerned that you had missed my tape trove query, etc.? Did you get it? > > Let me know if you want to know more, etc. > > Happy T day, as well > > Stephen V > > > im sorry darling i haven't a clue what you are talking about. indeed i do want to know more best, a ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:06:31 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: isbn 82-92428-08-9 Subject: The backwords Comments: To: wryting , "arc.hive" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The wabe All life; fill labor, go on, trap minors. A doom, royal play, or iron my metal frets a map, an em, a bed. Deb, a wastrel, alert, saw a player...a chair, Amos! Socorram-me, subi no pope, sir, I'm. Here smegma is Irish. Oh, taper! This and was I presume, rips a cave. What now, eh? - old, lost, faded away. Cannot fight or iron no end alas --- Sal Last case file not; atone, my Ma flammetitubante: une telle (etal, ce sel-base de Ninive, Dejanire.. She didn't Never prevents a wet, amaryllis-adorned log. File not; atone, my hymn: I start at Lilith, girl atonal, a gall, a sun, an erratic, I sit on a simple yodel in a man, name none talk calfs! Sweet this/all after fall./Fall? After the log I mat at noon taxes Lana. What is an eel, a top nitrate tonic in Sharon's Sharon's simple help, Miss Norah's A dull's house. A gem Melklepelklem Mesisem Metro mortem Mi-sol : Mor i not Ron avoid Ararat in a van, a bar, a potato idiot To warden in a lone Moss some Vigoro - ew! She said, and Edna And Edna has, Or a fool as Sadam; aloof as a king is I! A roost! so boss dogs? Idolater Greta, Lodi's My metal eon No stone radios No behemoth saw Madaca, Manitoba. Never pi I vomit - Along the fat peccadillo Olli, mach Eis beilblau! Nice elf --- flee Fido? God, I saw one birth, Sal. Is a petal alas! Sail now wonder Red nude I fill at no to Z (Adams, Orvil), Manage More! Manage more Roman age bred Rowena A rep. Lost treasures of mumford Dr of 1991 for a legacy! Sweet one to vote to not on AD's What rose is God. Do evil to other acts. A droop Poor D row mord ni sel-liard (sic) ni sel-liard (sic) ni te sert-il? A bed on rail, a man maddened. Damn a dog. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:05:50 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: isbn 82-92428-08-9 Subject: Ego? Comments: To: wryting , syndicate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Ego? Get a tot on no iron ore, gal, a grass is a cave! Eva, can I fist rams, Amen! I ogle. Enemy democrats Star comedy democrat Tar in a bed. Deb, agolfer. Go to hostile rifle, Mac. Camel, go hang a mad dog. God Do gym? My Bev?Ruck's id-pug - I dissent, a saw man Name taboo bat I semordnilap Palindromes Senile lines oppose noon. Nob big elf - greece elf fleece elfin Ida. Mad dog! A gag, a sign in a bed. Deb, a ted, a Zulu, feel Fifi! If I would sound like no live evil Naomi! I am a ballot, a saw Ron said, I, Sir, away! Ya, was I saw I hide it. Si? I rave. Eva, can I, Lana, can I Verdens Gang nor Emma has a hoop, a cad! Eva raved, Eva rips nine memos Some macaroni I, Red, lacy caldera! A elfe, il evita, nerf a rut, a la hauteur de ne pas estimer) (flic assermente, rengage) regit. Il lie not on Iblagib Bilateral are Mac's pup scamp, a dim Ana, Cataracts. Uranium enema smarts if fist rams, Amen! I distort God? Dog God a foof, a S ri pap Parcel bare rabtedrerehgejekkisgnelkabgosgnelrofedåb & guns bomb Arcadia? So red med rette vil Live on a sign I made pod I die. Render a devil deified, lived on Erie? Eislang ist, lahm am I did. Did I dare Tina! an inn in ecstasy sat at ifi Ilus suli Imena Amen nema, a cave? Eva, can an era helado, sera de Lucifer, vignot nasal (obsedee,le genre vaticinal), eh, cite, fil bu! O! not to vote Kat Simon's title, Fig up! Pun: I draw award Draw octet coward Draw desks, Amy, as a snit. Tini saw a silly ram was I gave. Rise, sir Risen ozone myriad asses, sad folio-spotted ace, sir. Eire, eerie, elates pumas. Sam Reno---is Elsa's leek, a cud, a starred, nude item, sees pansies act under a caress, a garb O'Connor. Ron, imparted a bonnet to garb an Osage sub bus, a mile, lima time Emit draw; eek! Nay, Yankee, ward time! Emit revel ever, Yr. Eve not sage droop. Sail, Hadrian; Obed sailed as a bonnet! Tenet Tennis Sine polyp sag, a raid, a ti rata naval sere. -- El birrete, lo asaras acaso? Comole haras, oye? -- Rajar, asna! --Coneja odiosa, me - run! Nuts, Deb, a dog a kimono is pop-art Trap star rats trepan a bayou baton! Not radial. Laat af, sire, ce noir on now, eh? Hello my hymn: I lame female Kate, sir lapdog! Revolt, Lover! Reward was I sang Star bet on a cave? Eva, can I--No, robot, no!--spill lupine pots I feel. Lee fixes Stella won not, so grimy! Yo soy. Yo! Bottoms up, U.S. Surkål biter foret rems, smerter ofret i snap Sharon in a telegram Marge let Dad Daedalus: nine, Peninsula: dead Dairy myriad murmur. Put elliots toilet up Sid in a bag, avoid Ararat sable; Elba sun unusable. Elba, Ima Amigo, no rot as salami I, an iris. Sir, a tip, so did ye gibbon! Nobel title bon Soir, Rio-Snob! Bonk! One mode: Robot. To red nut, nodded Don. No PARTS, in a pan. Natasha? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:17:28 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Re: Tape query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ooops sorry, wrong a. she sheepishly sd. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:26:58 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: NEA outrage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I usually don't pay much attention to these things, but recently I went to the NEA site to check who won the big money for the last poetry giveaways. I ran off the list and then hunted down most of the winners and examples of their poetry. Holy shit! What a load of crap! -- Poem after poem is written in the same dry, boring, derivative, academic voice and tone. A lot of this stuff comes off just a foot above Hallmark verse. It's been a long time since I read such stuffy, pretentious writing all in one place. At one time such poetry might have been au courant, but that was a long, long time ago. Nobody -- and I mean NOBODY -- with an I.Q./E.Q. above freezing, who is even tenuously connected to the real world, thinks or talks this way. I challenge anyone who isn't a high school student to dig out some of these poems and read them without laughing. The real shock for me was that Ron Silliman was among the winners. How a panel that was dominated by Robert Pinsky and others of similar bent managed to in clude Ron in this otherwise very conservative, very unimaginative crowd of winners is absolutely beyond me. I wonder how Ron feels about all this. Aren't these supposed to be blind submissions? I can't believe these panalists don't know know who's submitting what. Most of the winners are well published with the most conservative, seriously out of date and out of touch journals and book presses. I'm talking about the kind of simpering poetry that has been around for four decades at least! Except for Ron, there doesn't seem to be a street-wise poet in the bunch. What the fuck is going on with this agency? No wonder so few people besides poets read poetry. We need is to gather a few thousand writers who are at least trying to do something different and march on the NEA!!! Where's that gillotine? Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:45:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: The GOP on the ROMP In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii somehow I don't think that is on the neo-con agenda. all they care about is making the UW World Leader Number One for a long as possible. with or without God, they don't care. it is on the Goldwater/John Birch/Theocratic right side. and this won't past muster, probably not in the house, certainly not in the Senate, but especially not in the Supreme Court. there is that clause about separation. this is some dim bulb's bright idea. screaming lefty about it is what they want you to do. geez, people, can we all agree to consult with someone knowledgeable about how bills work before we scream that the end is here. robert slowly turning into a pro-benevolent despoter alexander saliby wrote: I have not confirmed the veracity of this material yet; if I find it untrue, I'll post that. Meanwhile, if it is true, we must ask ourselves, "how are we different from the Taliban?" Alex Subject: SCARIER YET : THEOCRACY AND THE U.S. LEGAL SYSTEM ! The neo-cons are pushing a law through Congress that would "acknowledge God as the sovereign source of law, liberty [and] government" [ http://context.themoscowtimes.com/index.php?aid=131199 ] in the United States. What's more, it would forbid all legal challenges to government officials who use the power of the state to enforce their own view of "God's sovereign authority." Any judge who dared even hear such a challenge could be removed from office. You don't believe it? It's called Constitution Restoration Act of 2004. And here it is: Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 HR 3799 IH 108th CONGRESS 2d Session H. R. 3799 To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and promote federalism. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES February 11, 2004 Mr. ADERHOLT (for himself and Mr. PENCE) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary A BILL To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and promote federalism. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Constitution Restoration Act of 2004'. TITLE I--JURISDICTION SEC. 101. APPELLATE JURISDICTION. (a) IN GENERAL- (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `Sec. 1260. Matters not reviewable `Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Supreme Court shall not have jurisdiction to review, by appeal, writ of certiorari, or otherwise, any matter to the extent that relief is sought against an element of Federal, State, or local government, or against an officer of Federal, State, or local government (whether or not acting in official personal capacity), by reason of that element's or officer's acknowledgement of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government.'. (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `1260. Matters not reviewable.'. (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1260 of title 28, United States Code, as added by subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of enactment of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to be included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. SEC. 102. LIMITATIONS ON JURISDICTION. (a) IN GENERAL- (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end of the following: `Sec. 1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to review `Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the district court shall not have jurisdiction of a matter if the Supreme Court does not have jurisdiction to review that matter by reason of section 1260 of this title.'. (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to review.'. (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of enactment of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to be included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. TITLE II--INTERPRETATION SEC. 201. INTERPRETATION OF THE CONSTITUTION. In interpreting and applying the Constitution of the United States, a court of the United States may not rely upon any constitution, law, administrative rule, Executive order, directive, policy, judicial decision, or any other action of any foreign state or international organization or agency, other than the constitutional law and English common law. TITLE III--ENFORCEMENT SEC. 301. EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL CASES NOT BINDING ON STATES. Any decision of a Federal court which has been made prior to or after the effective date of this Act, to the extent that the decision relates to an issue removed from Federal jurisdiction under section 1260 or 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by this Act, is not binding precedent on any State court. SEC. 302. IMPEACHMENT, CONVICTION, AND REMOVAL OF JUDGES FOR CERTAIN EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL ACTIVITIES. To the extent that a justice of the Supreme Court of the United States or any judge of any Federal court engages in any activity that exceeds the jurisdiction of the court of that justice or judge, as the case may be, by reason of section 1260 or 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by this Act, engaging in that activity shall be deemed to constitute the commission of-- (1) an offense for which the judge may be removed upon impeachment and conviction; and (2) a breach of the standard of good behavior required by article III, section 1 of the Constitution. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:51:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Heresies Comments: To: Robert C MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From a distance (a lengthy and indifferent one), libertarians and marxists look awfully similar. rmc ____ I will discuss perfidy with scholars as if spurning kisses, I will sip the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love? - Lisa Robertson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:05:48 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Everything can have meaning? I Still Like Alan's Work In-Reply-To: <000f01c4d153$3dd0c780$10ec36d2@computer> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Not sure I want to wrangle, but I'm fiddling, so what the hell. On 23/11/04 10:54 PM, "richard.tylr" wrote: > the Bourgeoisie - by definitions are in fact now - NOT the Middle Class > (there is really no middle class in the technical sense) but the Ruling > Class. Tell that to the petits stressing under their 50 hour working weeks, glancing sidelong at the homeless as they hurry home, panicking about their medical bills, terrified that all that credit will come crashing down on them and that they too will end up on the streets. &c. > Enlightenment, which was always a bourgeois project, is crumbling. > > the above statement is dubious - the Enlightenment was an interesting period > and important some of its "achievements are still with us The Enlightenment - from Rousseau to Wollstonecraft even to Joyce - was always a bourgeois phenomenon. Enzensberger is quite interesting on this. > This is unfortunately the kind of apparent meaninglessness that plagues > Hammer. Other what? Rapture could be defined in a million ways Do some reading on the US Christian Right, Richard. The Rapture is a very specific thing. Cheers A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:13:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: The GOP on the ROMP In-Reply-To: <20041124004502.79816.qmail@web50410.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very good point. When I worked for the State of CT, at least one legislator each session proposed something so idiotic that no remotely reasonable person would vote in favor of. And passing a bill involves so much favor-trading etc that most proposals that raise alarms die early and deserving deaths. In the face of Bush et al, the complexity of the system may be our best hope. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Corbett Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 7:45 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The GOP on the ROMP somehow I don't think that is on the neo-con agenda. all they care about is making the UW World Leader Number One for a long as possible. with or without God, they don't care. it is on the Goldwater/John Birch/Theocratic right side. and this won't past muster, probably not in the house, certainly not in the Senate, but especially not in the Supreme Court. there is that clause about separation. this is some dim bulb's bright idea. screaming lefty about it is what they want you to do. geez, people, can we all agree to consult with someone knowledgeable about how bills work before we scream that the end is here. robert slowly turning into a pro-benevolent despoter alexander saliby wrote: I have not confirmed the veracity of this material yet; if I find it untrue, I'll post that. Meanwhile, if it is true, we must ask ourselves, "how are we different from the Taliban?" Alex Subject: SCARIER YET : THEOCRACY AND THE U.S. LEGAL SYSTEM ! The neo-cons are pushing a law through Congress that would "acknowledge God as the sovereign source of law, liberty [and] government" [ http://context.themoscowtimes.com/index.php?aid=131199 ] in the United States. What's more, it would forbid all legal challenges to government officials who use the power of the state to enforce their own view of "God's sovereign authority." Any judge who dared even hear such a challenge could be removed from office. You don't believe it? It's called Constitution Restoration Act of 2004. And here it is: Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 HR 3799 IH 108th CONGRESS 2d Session H. R. 3799 To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and promote federalism. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES February 11, 2004 Mr. ADERHOLT (for himself and Mr. PENCE) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary A BILL To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and promote federalism. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Constitution Restoration Act of 2004'. TITLE I--JURISDICTION SEC. 101. APPELLATE JURISDICTION. (a) IN GENERAL- (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `Sec. 1260. Matters not reviewable `Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Supreme Court shall not have jurisdiction to review, by appeal, writ of certiorari, or otherwise, any matter to the extent that relief is sought against an element of Federal, State, or local government, or against an officer of Federal, State, or local government (whether or not acting in official personal capacity), by reason of that element's or officer's acknowledgement of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government.'. (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `1260. Matters not reviewable.'. (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1260 of title 28, United States Code, as added by subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of enactment of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to be included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. SEC. 102. LIMITATIONS ON JURISDICTION. (a) IN GENERAL- (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end of the following: `Sec. 1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to review `Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the district court shall not have jurisdiction of a matter if the Supreme Court does not have jurisdiction to review that matter by reason of section 1260 of this title.'. (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to review.'. (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of enactment of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to be included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. TITLE II--INTERPRETATION SEC. 201. INTERPRETATION OF THE CONSTITUTION. In interpreting and applying the Constitution of the United States, a court of the United States may not rely upon any constitution, law, administrative rule, Executive order, directive, policy, judicial decision, or any other action of any foreign state or international organization or agency, other than the constitutional law and English common law. TITLE III--ENFORCEMENT SEC. 301. EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL CASES NOT BINDING ON STATES. Any decision of a Federal court which has been made prior to or after the effective date of this Act, to the extent that the decision relates to an issue removed from Federal jurisdiction under section 1260 or 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by this Act, is not binding precedent on any State court. SEC. 302. IMPEACHMENT, CONVICTION, AND REMOVAL OF JUDGES FOR CERTAIN EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL ACTIVITIES. To the extent that a justice of the Supreme Court of the United States or any judge of any Federal court engages in any activity that exceeds the jurisdiction of the court of that justice or judge, as the case may be, by reason of section 1260 or 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by this Act, engaging in that activity shall be deemed to constitute the commission of-- (1) an offense for which the judge may be removed upon impeachment and conviction; and (2) a breach of the standard of good behavior required by article III, section 1 of the Constitution. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:13:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: NEA outrage In-Reply-To: <92.1a68ec85.2ed52f52@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" bill (ron?), ron silliman won an nea two years ago, yes?... i apply for the poetry nea every coupla years... just rec'd my reject this year in fact, and am looking forward [cough] to learning who ended up with the $20K this time 'round... very happy for ron, of course... but if you read this past sunday's nytbr---"the poetry issue"---you'll likely be at least as distressed, in general, at how poetry is made to play to said imagined readership... a most interesting exercise in fact is to make a list of the presses that publish the work reviewed therein... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:45:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: NEA outrage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The mechanism by which most fellowships are awarded is tilted in favor of the insider. With the Guggenheim, to be eligible one must obtain four letters of support. The letters that carry the greatest weight are those written by past winners. Over the past several years Guggenheim Fellowships in poetry have been awarded almost exclusively to academics. Not surprising. Academics are better situated to ask for and receive such support, tightening a closed loop. The NEA fellowship has similarly been awarded to academics year in, year out. I think the rarefied air is getting to the mighty. Certain that anything outside their paradigm is illegitimate, they don't hesitate in what they do--namely, stick it to outsiders. Silliman is an exception, I suppose. I was one, too, this past May, when I won the Mass Cultural Council poetry award. I was the only winner who did not hold an advanced degree and/or teach. I was thrilled to find out that I'd never met any of the readers or panelists. I know winning in the future is a long shot, because human nature is such to favor those perceived to be like oneself. Besides, I am likely to have pissed off a good many potential panelists by this point. Michael Hoerman www.badrotten.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:10:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Carolyn Parrish joins Bush Moblization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/34783.php Carolyn Parrish joins Bush Moblization Carolyn Parrish joins Bush Moblization Speakout on CKUT 90.3 fm - Nov 25...as thousands mobilize to oppose BUSH in Ottawa and to denounce the terror agenda of corporate Canada - CKUT's community News Collective will host a SPEAKOUT on THURSDAY, Nov. 25th from 5-6pm. Carolyn Parrish joins Bush Moblization Speakout on CKUT 90.3 fm - Nov 25 so can you... * BUSH SPEAKOUT * Thursday, Nov 25, 17-18h 1.866.763.4136 * call toll-free * TUNE-IN - 90.3fm as thousands mobilize to oppose BUSH in Ottawa and to denounce the terror agenda of corporate Canada - CKUT's community News Collective will host a SPEAKOUT on THURSDAY, Nov. 25th from 5-6pm. joining us - CAROLYN PARRISH - former Paul Martin cabinet member who could not stand the smell of his administration anymore. we will also feature many other voices and perspectives on the Bush agenda and those who are enforcing it in Canada and worldwide, confirm your participation today! contact CKUTs Community News Department for more information: news@ckut.ca or 514.398.6788. tune-in @ 90.3 fm (mtl) from 5-6pm on Thursday, November 25th, or online live or from the MP3 archive http://www.ckut.ca. http://ww.ckut.ca ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:16:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: The GOP on the ROMP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vernon,=20 Sorry to misunderstand your comment, but would you mind explaining what = it is that Robert Corbett said that constitutes, in your opinion, a = "Very good point?" =20 First, Robert says, "...I don't think that is on the neo-con agenda..."=20 In my view, Robert misses the point of the HR 3799 entirely. The = Conservative agenda is about power, and how to both increase the amount = they have and how to retain it over the next 40 or 50 years. And there = are a host of ploys which the Right has used effectively over the past = 15 years to reverse their power-lagging status and take control of both = the house and the senate. In addition, as some of us know, they own the = white house and are poised to restructure the Supreme court. The bill = isn't about what's on their agenda, it's about helping them fulfill = their agenda. =20 Two specific ploys the Right has used to great success are: their appeal = to the masses to descry the absence of God in our government, and the = criticism of the nation's Education system (let's not digress on the ed = point). =20 Putting HR3799 up for consideration plays to the Right's "our = government's lack of god" ploy quite nicely. And if the bill is = defeated, the right wins because they get to shout: "See, we told you!" = And the good Christian folks in Ohio will slink back to their voter = booths and say, "Yeah; you all are right. We need God back in our = government." Then they'll pull the level for another Right-wing = candidate. Better yet, if the bill manages to come out of committee and = pass...Holy Shit! they win again! And I don't think I need to explain = why or how here. =20 And Robert's point, and indeed yours here regarding whether a bill can = be passed too misses the point of strategic counter-arguing. = Iinitiating bills (whether or not they even make it out of committee to = the floor to get voted on) is a ploy that plays to the issue of keeping = the Right and the Left at odds while working on the effort of appealing = to the moderates for support of their wholesome, virtue rich agenda. =20 And finally, in Robert's points, he implies that I lack knowledge of the = governmental process. While that comment is a charmingly weak ad = hominum at best, it lacks credibility because it is a presumption based = on the writer's uninformed opinion. Which, if I'm correct, and the = point is both unfounded and unsubstantiated...hardly qualifies for a = .."Very good point" comment. IMHO So, if you wouldn't mind, could you take a moment and elaborate on = exactly what it is Robert wrote that represents a "Very good point." =20 Thanks,=20 Alex =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Vernon Frazer=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 5:13 PM Subject: Re: The GOP on the ROMP Very good point. When I worked for the State of CT, at least one = legislator each session proposed something so idiotic that no remotely reasonable person would vote in favor of. And passing a bill involves so much favor-trading etc that most proposals that raise alarms die early and deserving deaths. In the face of Bush et al, the complexity of the = system may be our best hope. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Corbett Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 7:45 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The GOP on the ROMP somehow I don't think that is on the neo-con agenda. all they care = about is making the UW World Leader Number One for a long as possible. with or without God, they don't care. it is on the Goldwater/John Birch/Theocratic right side. and this = won't past muster, probably not in the house, certainly not in the Senate, = but especially not in the Supreme Court. there is that clause about = separation. this is some dim bulb's bright idea. screaming lefty about it is what = they want you to do. geez, people, can we all agree to consult with someone knowledgeable = about how bills work before we scream that the end is here. robert slowly turning into a pro-benevolent despoter alexander saliby > wrote: I have not confirmed the veracity of this material yet; if I find it = untrue, I'll post that. Meanwhile, if it is true, we must ask ourselves, "how = are we different from the Taliban?" Alex Subject: SCARIER YET : THEOCRACY AND THE U.S. LEGAL SYSTEM ! The neo-cons are pushing a law through Congress that would = "acknowledge God as the sovereign source of law, liberty [and] government" [ = http://context.themoscowtimes.com/index.php?aid=3D131199 ] in the United States. What's more, it would forbid all legal challenges to government officials who use the = power of the state to enforce their own view of "God's sovereign authority." = Any judge who dared even hear such a challenge could be removed from office. You = don't believe it? It's called Constitution Restoration Act of 2004. And here it is: Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 HR 3799 IH 108th CONGRESS 2d Session H. R. 3799 To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and = promote federalism. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES February 11, 2004 Mr. ADERHOLT (for himself and Mr. PENCE) introduced the following = bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary A BILL To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and = promote federalism. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Constitution Restoration Act of 2004'. TITLE I--JURISDICTION SEC. 101. APPELLATE JURISDICTION. (a) IN GENERAL- (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, = is amended by adding at the end the following: `Sec. 1260. Matters not reviewable `Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Supreme = Court shall not have jurisdiction to review, by appeal, writ of certiorari, or otherwise, any matter to the extent that relief is sought against an element of Federal, State, or local government, or against an officer of Federal, State, = or local government (whether or not acting in official personal capacity), by = reason of that element's or officer's acknowledgement of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government.'. (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of = chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `1260. Matters not reviewable.'. (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1260 of title 28, United States Code, as = added by subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of enactment of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to = be included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. SEC. 102. LIMITATIONS ON JURISDICTION. (a) IN GENERAL- (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, = is amended by adding at the end of the following: `Sec. 1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to = review `Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the district court shall = not have jurisdiction of a matter if the Supreme Court does not have jurisdiction to review that matter by reason of section 1260 of this title.'. (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of = chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to review.'. (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as = added by subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of enactment of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to = be included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. TITLE II--INTERPRETATION SEC. 201. INTERPRETATION OF THE CONSTITUTION. In interpreting and applying the Constitution of the United States, a = court of the United States may not rely upon any constitution, law, = administrative rule, Executive order, directive, policy, judicial decision, or any = other action of any foreign state or international organization or agency, other = than the constitutional law and English common law. TITLE III--ENFORCEMENT SEC. 301. EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL CASES NOT BINDING ON STATES. Any decision of a Federal court which has been made prior to or after = the effective date of this Act, to the extent that the decision relates to = an issue removed from Federal jurisdiction under section 1260 or 1370 of title = 28, United States Code, as added by this Act, is not binding precedent on = any State court. SEC. 302. IMPEACHMENT, CONVICTION, AND REMOVAL OF JUDGES FOR CERTAIN EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL ACTIVITIES. To the extent that a justice of the Supreme Court of the United States = or any judge of any Federal court engages in any activity that exceeds the jurisdiction of the court of that justice or judge, as the case may = be, by reason of section 1260 or 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by this = Act, engaging in that activity shall be deemed to constitute the commission = of-- (1) an offense for which the judge may be removed upon impeachment and conviction; and (2) a breach of the standard of good behavior required by article III, section 1 of the Constitution. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:24:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: OH MY GOD -- The Writer of the Hamms Beer JINGLE has DIED Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The poetic heir to Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Ernie Garven, the man who penned the Hamms Beer jingle (see below) has died. I refer you to Longfellow's "The Song of Hiawatha" to understand the import of Mr. Garven's death. "Nov 16, 2004 10:15 am US/Central St. Paul (AP) Ernie Garven, who penned that catchy Hamm's beer jingle about the "land of sky-blue waters" even though he didn't drink beer, died last week at his home in Rotonda West, Fla. He was 90. "From the land of sky blue waters (waters), "From the land of pines, lofty balsams, "Comes the beer refreshing, "Hamm's, the beer refreshing." http://wcco.com/localnews/local_story_321111655.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:36:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: OH MY GOD -- The Writer of the Hamms Beer JINGLE has DIED Comments: To: dreamtime@yahoogroups.com Comments: cc: WRYTING-L Disciplines Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A deathblow to wisconsin beer drinkers.... This jingle & its accompanying scrolling beer lights are a big part of my early memories, they were very common in houses in Wisconsin Rapids in the 60s plus the jingle played repeatedly & every day on the radio & for years... mIEKAL who has a whole born again appreciation of alcoholic beverages after being in Romania for a month. Begin forwarded message: > From: Gabriel Gudding > Date: Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:24:05 PM America/Chicago > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: OH MY GOD -- The Writer of the Hamms Beer JINGLE has DIED > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > The poetic heir to Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Ernie Garven, the man > who > penned the Hamms Beer jingle (see below) has died. I refer you to > Longfellow's "The Song of Hiawatha" to understand the import of Mr. > Garven's death. > > "Nov 16, 2004 10:15 am US/Central > St. Paul (AP) Ernie Garven, who penned that catchy Hamm's beer jingle > about > the "land of sky-blue waters" even though he didn't drink beer, died > last > week at his home in Rotonda West, Fla. He was 90. > > "From the land of sky blue waters (waters), > > "From the land of pines, lofty balsams, > > "Comes the beer refreshing, > > "Hamm's, the beer refreshing." > > http://wcco.com/ > localnews/local_story_321111655.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:36:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: milk vol 6 online Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed milk vol 6 online (and we're not finished with the issue) http://www.milkmag.org/vol6home.html zinta aistars dave awl david applegate brian beatty john beer charles bernstein jen besemer daniel borzutzky ira cohen todd colby rob cook steve dalachinsky clayton eshleman raymond filip thomas fink ricky garni mat gould tony guzman esther joh richard johns mary kasimor amy king richard kostelanetz judith malina michael mcclure erika mikkalo daniel abdal-hayy moore christopher mulrooney anita naegeli charlie newman stephen oliver john perreault simon pettet stella radulescu hanon reznikov sarah rosenthal spencer selby elias siqueiros chuck stebelton tetsuya taguchi gene tanta mark tardi lakey teasdale rodrigo toscano ian randall wilson ekatarina zalkind plus ... the Art of yamamoto kansuke/conveyor of the impossible by john solt krista franklin amy evans-mcclure terry rentzepis Review tom hibbard reviews literature nation letter from new york by charles bernstein Translations cesar pavese translated by linh dinh janos pilinszky translated by michael castro and gabor gyukics Essays clayton eshleman tony towle george wallace Fiction by bryan mcmillan (we need more fiction) __________________________________ Editor/larry sawyer Fiction editor, web/lina ramona vitkauskas http://www.milkmag.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:58:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: OH MY GOD -- The Writer of the Hamms Beer JINGLE has DIED In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20041123201442.029c6250@mail.ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ooo I love HAMMS the loss of Mr Garven is indeed sad perhaps he should win the Bollingen Prize? R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Gabriel Gudding > Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 8:24 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: OH MY GOD -- The Writer of the Hamms Beer JINGLE has DIED > > > The poetic heir to Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Ernie Garven, the man who > penned the Hamms Beer jingle (see below) has died. I refer you to > Longfellow's "The Song of Hiawatha" to understand the import of Mr. > Garven's death. > > "Nov 16, 2004 10:15 am US/Central > St. Paul (AP) Ernie Garven, who penned that catchy Hamm's beer > jingle about > the "land of sky-blue waters" even though he didn't drink beer, died last > week at his home in Rotonda West, Fla. He was 90. > > "From the land of sky blue waters (waters), > > "From the land of pines, lofty balsams, > > "Comes the beer refreshing, > > "Hamm's, the beer refreshing." > > http://wcco. > com/localnews/local_story_321111655.html > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:37:56 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NEA outrage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/23/04 8:14:12 PM, jamato2@ILSTU.EDU writes: << bill (ron?), ron silliman won an nea two years ago, yes?... i apply for the poetry nea every coupla years... just rec'd my reject this year in fact, and am looking forward [cough] to learning who ended up with the $20K this time 'round... very happy for ron, of course... but if you read this past sunday's nytbr---"the poetry issue"---you'll likely be at least as distressed, in general, at how poetry is made to play to said imagined readership... a most interesting exercise in fact is to make a list of the presses that publish the work reviewed therein... best, joe >> I am an academic. Many of the innovative thinkers in most disciplines are academics. The entire poststructuralist movement is governed by academics. L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry is academic. Medical advances are usually instigated by academics. And on and on. But these panelists and winners! I don't know where these academics/poets are coming from. It's as if they all live and work in caves, unaware that digital television is now available. Well, maybe I do know where they're coming from. The list of winners for 2003 evinces a very neat spread across the nation. Every area of the country is represented equally. How did that happen if submissions are blind? Something else is going on in addition to antique academic tastes gone nuts. Some shoo-be-do is at work here. There must be a few innovative artists among middle Americans? Do they all conform to the same worn out rubbish? Imagine a Renaissance with an NEA. Imagine the 19th century! Today's best anthologies, generally records of innovation, would contain the same poem repeated for 1000 pages. Blake, Coleridge, Shelley, who are they? Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Lautremont -- forget them. Stein, Cummings -- no way. I don't know whether or not to be happy for Ron. He's probably the only one on the list of winners who actually deserves the award. But in this crowd of winners, he seems like the mistake, the one that got away, dare I say it -- the token. I'd bet money that if some unknown had submitted Ron's manuscript, word for word, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the winners circle, not with this group of panelists. Someone on the panel was able to match work and author, and I suspect that happened with many of the other winners. Whew! I'd rather have my tax dollar pork barreled to wine tasters, rather than have it swiped for this nonsense. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:45:37 -0800 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: Re: looking for poems on Tibet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sylvester, will b/c info. I have ordered TWD's Rules of the House; = it's on the way. Are there others? Purpose: research paper leading to = eventual anthology down the line. Thanks, Layne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: sylvester pollet=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 6:51 AM Subject: looking for poems on Tibet Do you have books of Tsering Wangmo Dhompa? I'll send you the broadside I did of her work _A Matter not of Order_ if you b/c your address. (Backwoods Broadsides Chaplet Series #75, $1. generally, subs $10 for 8 issues). What is the purpose of your search? Sylvester At 12:01 AM -0500 11/22/04, Automatic digest processor wrote: >Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:31:03 -0800 >From: Layne Russell >Subject: looking for poems on Tibet > >Looking for poems on Tibet (culture, political situation, geography, = =3D >Tibetan people, etc.) in time frame of beginning of Chinese = occupation =3D >to present, written by Tibetans or poets of any nationality. In =3D >English, please. > >Thank you for any leads. > >Layne Russell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:56:20 -0800 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: Re: Wanda Phipps in Venice! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable great photos, August. do you have a poem that she read that you could = post? . . . to go with the photos? Layne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: August Highland=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:48 AM Subject: Wanda Phipps in Venice! I was lucky enough to see Wanda in Venice, California reading from her = new book. I even got her to sign it! She wrote that I was a phenomenon! = So is she! I think I am in love. But she has a boyfriend and I am married. Such = is life. Here are two pictures I took of her: http://www.august-highland.com/wanda_phipps/wanda_phipps_01.gif http://www.august-highland.com/wanda_phipps/wanda_phipps_02.gif ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 00:12:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: mouths swallow nothing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed mouths swallow nothing 99.15.56.228_does_not_like_recipient. SING DOMA MENURI OLLATE Sr)Augus HUTDOWN Nu http://www.asondheim.org/bbreast4.bmp http://www.asondheim.org/bbreast5.bmp http://www.asondheim.org/bbreast6.bmp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 00:35:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City presents The Poker and Music by Drew Gardner Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please forward: ---------------- Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press The Poker (Cambridge, Mass.) Thurs. Dec. 2, 6 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Event will be hosted by The Poker editor Daniel Bouchard Featuring readings from: Marcella Durand Laura Elrick Cole Heinowitz Kimberly Lyons Ange Mlinko Jacqueline Waters and more With music by Drew Gardner There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues http://www.durationpress.com/thepoker/ Next month: Palm Press (Los Angeles), Jan. 6 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:38:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: This is the director's cut ... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is the director's cut ... http://www.unpleasanteventschedule.com/ & My Head on Fire, Dull But Glowing http://home.earthlink.net/~glafemina/poetsintheirthirties/id51.html . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:05:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: great post-doc / grants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To mark the anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education, Alphonse Fletcher and the Fletcher Foundation will be giving $50 million to institutions and individuals working to improve race relations. This gift will be given over the course of the next several years to help continue the progress toward racial equality started by the Brown decision. Some of the gift will be fellowships modeled partly after the Guggenheim awards. Fellowships of $50,000 are to be awarded over a number of years to scholars, writers and artists whose work has furthered the goals of the Brown decision. Also, a portion of the money will be given to the Yale University's School of Forestry and Environmental Studies. Grants will be available to scholars, artists and writers. Applications must be postmarked by December 1, 2004 and decisions will be made by March 2005. Applications at http://www.fletcher.com/philanthropy.jsp We continue to receive inquiries from organizations seeking other forms of support under the initiative. At the present time, the initiative does not have funding programs available for organizations and we cannot accept funding requests from organizations at this point in time. Programs relating to organizational funding are expected to be launched within the next six to nine months. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:57:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Padgett/Brainard/Obenzinger Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Heard Ron Padgett read from the work of Joe Brainard at University of San Francisco this evening. Absolutely magical. I suggest for Noel a lovely gift would be Ron's Coffee House remembrance of the life of. (Anybody got the title handy - it's just out?) And the night before at Booksmith on Haight Street, Hilton read wonderfully from his new Soft Skull Press novel, A*Hole (with a genius cover design that will be probably the coffee table conversation stopper of the season - right there in the middle of a conversation about our, hmm, George). Anyone - as a youth - who has either gone over the adolescent brink into big trouble (taking their parents with them) or raising one or two or three of same, will be very at home with the dizzying dark comic edges of this journey through the hole of it all. A multi-fractal narrative look. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com Sleeping With Sappho (a faux ebook) now at: http://www.fauxpress.com/e/vincent/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:02:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ruined skin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ruined skin http://www.asondheim.org/ruined.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/pan1.pdf _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 00:24:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: NEA outrage Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I wonder if Ron would be interested in disclosing which particular poems of his won the NEA grants in 02 and 04. Would be interesting to see (and "probably for all the wrong reasons"....) C ---------- >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: NEA outrage >Date: Tue, Nov 23, 2004, 8:37 PM > > In a message dated 11/23/04 8:14:12 PM, jamato2@ILSTU.EDU writes: > > << bill (ron?), ron silliman won an nea two years ago, yes?... i apply > for the poetry nea every coupla years... just rec'd my reject this > year in fact, and am looking forward [cough] to learning who ended up > with the $20K this time 'round... > > very happy for ron, of course... but if you read this past sunday's > nytbr---"the poetry issue"---you'll likely be at least as distressed, > in general, at how poetry is made to play to said imagined > readership... a most interesting exercise in fact is to make a list > of the presses that publish the work reviewed therein... > > best, > > joe >> > > I am an academic. Many of the innovative thinkers in most disciplines are > academics. The entire poststructuralist movement is governed by academics. > L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry is academic. Medical advances are usually instigated by > academics. And on and on. But these panelists and winners! I don't know > where these academics/poets are coming from. It's as if they all live and work in > caves, unaware that digital television is now available. > > Well, maybe I do know where they're coming from. The list of winners for > 2003 evinces a very neat spread across the nation. Every area of the country is > represented equally. How did that happen if submissions are blind? Something > else is going on in addition to antique academic tastes gone nuts. Some > shoo-be-do is at work here. There must be a few innovative artists among middle > Americans? Do they all conform to the same worn out rubbish? Imagine a > Renaissance with an NEA. Imagine the 19th century! Today's best anthologies, > generally records of innovation, would contain the same poem repeated for 1000 > pages. Blake, Coleridge, Shelley, who are they? Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Lautremont > -- forget them. Stein, Cummings -- no way. > > I don't know whether or not to be happy for Ron. He's probably the only one > on the list of winners who actually deserves the award. But in this crowd of > winners, he seems like the mistake, the one that got away, dare I say it -- > the token. I'd bet money that if some unknown had submitted Ron's manuscript, > word for word, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the winners circle, not > with this group of panelists. Someone on the panel was able to match work and > author, and I suspect that happened with many of the other winners. > > Whew! I'd rather have my tax dollar pork barreled to wine tasters, rather > than have it swiped for this nonsense. > > Best, Bill > > WilliamJamesAustin.com > kojapress.com > amazon.com > b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:07:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: hunger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks alot mj as always which is now for your support ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:16:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Wanda Phipps in Venice! Comments: To: layne@whiteowlweb.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit check out my review of wanda's new book in current issue of boog city excerpts from poems and another great photo of wanda 9( 2 minor grammatical errors added by editor after the fact) - steve dalachinsky ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:04:06 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my israeli cuzin & his ethiop wife are goin' to see 'mama mia" then on to kosher vegan indian food apres matinee Ethiopia is size of Texas, Co. & Me. when David 1st entered Sheba he screamed "You Bitch" 1.000 Mogadishus One Marriage.... 3:00.....rain on the road...thx for the...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:18:55 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Nea Outrage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit '02 '04 it's not 'bt money it's 'bout $$$$$$$ $$$$$$$ pig at the public trough... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:33:52 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Heresies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit to those with bad eyesight, perhaps those with bad eyesight, behind a wall, facing the other way, with their eyes shut L -----Original Message----- From: Robert Corbett To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 24 November 2004 00:52 Subject: Heresies >From a distance (a lengthy and indifferent one), libertarians and marxists look awfully similar. > >rmc > > >____ > >I will discuss perfidy with scholars >as if spurning kisses, I will sip >the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar >but I shall never wear shame and if you >call that sophistry then what is Love? > - Lisa Robertson > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 00:48:49 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Everything can have meaning? I Still Like Alan's Work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison Croggin says: > Not sure I want to wrangle, but I'm fiddling, so what the hell. > > On 23/11/04 10:54 PM, "richard.tylr" wrote: > > > the Bourgeoisie - by definitions are in fact now - NOT the Middle Class > > (there is really no middle class in the technical sense) but the Ruling > > Class. > > Tell that to the petits stressing under their 50 hour working weeks, > glancing sidelong at the homeless as they hurry home, panicking about their > medical bills, terrified that all that credit will come crashing down on > them and that they too will end up on the streets. &c. This is nonsense - what small business people stress about (or don't) in a 50 or 2 or 200 hour week is irrelevant to what I was saying - a petit bourgeois is a potential capitalist (bourgeois) - any one can be in debt or worry about being homeless (or not )if they want to...it's a complete non sequitur!! You are avoiding the point of definition of class according to Marxist concepts -as I said you don't have to accept the terminology - but if you do, then that definition I explained to you is true. To others (in this you can learn) - the writer also ignores everything else I said and picks on one aspect in an attempt to humiliate me. Very slick with her knowledge on The Enlightenment and Rapture but vague on Class concepts. 3/10 - please do better next time - and READ the text carefully before trying to answer the question.....Dont use words such as "petits" it looks clever but we get a "sinking feeling" when we see terms like that in answers by our pupils.... I know it's cool and "with it" and very "now" to be clever these days but please be clear or you will be marked VERY hard by teacher.... Richard Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:57:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Poems by others: D. Clinton, "The River: The Passage" plus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The River: The Passage mates. we must bore this continent like nothing ever. there is a river. there is a land break. we can sandblast this way & trade skins for a guide & information. up & down for years mates & we keep the king incommunicado. the natives they paddle out bright peacocks & oh Lord Lord we are fat as tuna & how do we harvest these delectables. they signal in their hands & bounce off toes there is a deep running current & we can navigate this delta & fjords & geographers busy illustrating swamps with a little grass turf space then a little grass turf. where do we bury fires. how do we roast. who can we eat. & an ancient terrifying mask stands in a canoe speaks braille & points. there is no treaty & we cautious to get stuck start ramming powder & bricks the cannons pointed in disguise behind balsa & we invite a parley. discussion in root language. using the eyes as believers. establishing hope. we shake hands & deathly afraid follow deep running current watching us draw closer to the crocks & the ecstatic piranha & what meat they see & we floating closer to the river level spraying the wild birds with shot hoping to pull out hoping to use reverse hoping to draw power from the slaves pleading innocence pleading backward backward & we now even with river line & mask looks back starts belly roll & we know this is not India & mostly we are too far south & think of the trade missions the blazing crosses & like gnats the little fish move in & we delectable & we good down to the bones. --D. Clinton in Ironwood 6, Vol. 3, No. 2 (1975) plus a seasonal favorite-- A Thanksgiving Prayer For John Dillinger, in the hope that he is still alive. (Thanksgiving Day, November 28th 1986) Thanks for the wild turkey and the passenger pigeons, destined to be shit out through wholesome American guts. Thanks for a continent to despoil and poison. Thanks for Indians to provide a modicum of challenge and danger. Thanks for vast herds of bison to kill and skin, leaving the carcasses to rot. Thanks for bounties on wolves and coyotes. Thanks for the American Dream--to vulgarize and falsify until the bare lies shine through. Thanks for the K.K.K. For nigger-killing lawmen feeling their notches. For decent, church-going women with their mean, pinched, bitter evil faces. Thanks for Kill A Queer For Christ stickers. Thanks for laboratory AIDS. Thanks for prohibition, and the war against drugs. Thanks for a country where nobody is allowed to mind his own business. Thanks for a nation of finks. Yes, thanks for all the memories--"Alright, let's see your arms." You always were a headache and you always were a bore. Thanks, for the last and greatest betrayal, of the last and greatest of human dreams . . . --William S. Burroughs Hal Halvard Johnson ============ email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:03:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: PO25centEM Annual Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Furniture Press has now completed=20 its first installment of the=20 PO25centEM zine series featuring=20 31 of your favorite poets. I have a few sets left that will be packaged by Sarah E. C. for your perusi= ng pleasure. Here's the set so far: 1 richard kostelanetz 2 gerald schwartz 3 jason christie 4 jeff harrison 5 bill allegrezza 6 joel lipman 7 christophe casamassima 8 sheila e. murphy 9 martha deed 10 catherine daly 11 bill marsh 12 millie niss 13 rob mclennan 14 eric elshtain 15 david-baptiste chirot 16 thomas lowe taylor 17 noah eli gordon 18 celestine woo 19 noel black 20 deborah poe =20 philadelphia sound edition 21 c a conrad 22 ethel rackin 23 greg fuchs 24 alicia askenase 25 ish klein 26 brett evans 27 jenn mccreary 28 chris mccreary 29 hassen 30 frank sherlock 31 tom devaney Anyone who would like a set please send $12 to Christophe Casamassima 19 murdock road baltimore, md 21212 Get 'em while you can! There's only a few left, but if yr lucky to spot one= on the train or a bus in DC snatch it! www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:11:12 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Letvitsky & Ostashevsky, DEc 3. NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WHAT: The Center for Book Arts will be continuing its 2004 Center Broadsides Reading Series with=20= a poetry=20 reading featuring Rachel Levitsky and Eugene Ostashevsky. Limited edition=20 broadsides of the authors=E2=80=99 work, letterpress printed at the Center,=20= will be=20 available for sale. =20 =20 =20 WHO: Rachel Levitsky is the author of the long poem Under the Su= n=20 (Futurepoem Books 2003) and the chapbooks Cartographies of Error (Leroy 1999= )=20 and Dearly, (a+bend 1999) among others. She co-curates Belladonna*--NYC's=20 feminist experimental poetic reading and pamphlet series, which she founded=20= in=20 1999. =20 =20 Eugene Ostashevsky has published poems in Jubilat, Fence, Lungfull,=20 Rattapallax, Combo and other magazines. His translations of Russian absurdis= t poetry of=20 the 1930s are forthcoming from Northwestern UP and Green Integer. =20 WHEN: =20 Friday, December 3, 2004 at 7 pm =20 WHERE: =20 The Center for Book Arts 28 West 27th Street, 3rd Floor Between Broadway and 6th Avenue N, R to 28th Street and Broadway F to 23rd Street and 6th Avenue 1 or 9 to 28th Street and 7th Avenue=20 Call the Center for details on parking in the neighborhood =20 =20 HOW: Admission: free for members; $5 suggested=20 donation for non-members First 40 guests receive a free letterpress printed=20 broadside =20 =20 ABOUT THE CENTER FOR BOOK ARTS =20 The Center for Book Arts is dedicated to the preservation of the traditional= =20 crafts of bookmaking, as well as encouraging contemporary interpretations of= =20 the book as an art object. Founded in 1974, it was the first not-for-profi= t=20 organization of its kind in the nation. The Center organizes exhibitions=20 related to the art of the book and offers an extensive selection of educatio= nal=20 courses, workshops and seminars in traditional and contemporary bookbinding,= =20 letterpress printing, fine press publishing, and other associated arts.=20 =20 The Center for Book Arts is supported by local businesses, various=20 foundations including the Lenrow Fund, the Milton and Sally Avery Arts Found= ation, the=20 NY State Council on the Arts, the National Endowment for the Arts, and its=20 members.=20 =20 Center for Book Arts 28 W. 27th Street NY, NY 10001 212 481 0295 FAX 212 481 9853 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:29:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: The GOP on the ROMP In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was unclear, and I apologize for that. I was commenting on Robert's statement, "can we all agree to consult with someone knowledgeable about how bills work before we scream that the end is here." I don't know what your experience with government is, but I do know how government works, having, as I've said before on this List, created paper trails for some dubious if not outright illegal government practices. Proposed bills may serve strategic functions, but the bottom line is whether they get passed, and how effectively they're implemented. In my experience, any public policy statement delivered by a government official is more than likely untrue, if not an outright lie. Contrary to Bush's pre-911 assertions, the Republicans had a plan in place to invade the Middle East if Bush won in 2000. Would people have voted for Bush if the Republicans had said this up front? I have my doubts about 9/11, given that no shots were fired in the Gulf of Tonkin and Roosevelt knew the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl Harbor at least a week before it happened. It could be the Republicans knew about it and let it happen because it would further their interests and generate popular support. I could speculate further, considering Daddy Bush was once head of the CIA and hasn't lost his connections to people in power. And then there is the Bush-Bin Laden connection. Aside from Saddam being a cruel dictator, I can't help remembering Saddam's attempt to assassinate Daddy Bush. The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction or Saddam's cruelty, and a lot to do with a family's revenge. I've seen this happen on the State level, from the governor on down to his civil service appointees. In my experience, personal feuds and greed are the real reasons for government action or inaction. When I started out in my job in a highly politicized social service agency, my bureau director explained that a delay in $383 million of Office of Equal Opportunity/Community Services Administration funds were blocked from reaching the agencies that needed the funds to stay open because of a personal feud between the two officials who controlled the money, not congress per se. In Connecticut, you talked to one man on the Senate Apropriations Committee. If he liked you, your program or legislation got funding. If not, forget it. One human mediocrity married into this legislator's family and began a meteoric rise based on the clout of his in-laws. Many extreme bills are simply grandstanding for a constituency. It's not important that they get passed or rejected;' the legislator has made himself look good to his constituency for the next election. If something truly bone-headed gets passed, at some point, something (perhaps equally bone-headed) will get passed as damage control. Welfare reform has always been a sexy issue: "put da bums back to work" (even if there are no jobs for them). A year after welfare reform passed in CT, ahead of the Federal reform, social services officials realized the people losing benefits were going into the streets because the job training programs didn't train them for positions that paid living wages. What to do? Create a Transitional Housing Program from some account other than welfare. At the Federal level, the money "saved" by welfare reform now goes into Section 8 and other rent-subsidy programs. They probably spend more money on housing than they did on welfare. Even if something extremely good or bad gets passed, the political favoritism in government hiring practices will negate the effects of many proposals. A Clinton appointee at a government agency, for example, may render any extreme legislation from the Bush administration ineffective. Over the years I've wondered why so many programs designed to help people proved to be ineffective. If the appointed director isn't an outright incompetent, the agency's leadership will block the program's effectiveness in other ways. The people who implement the government's directives can sabotage bad policies in many ways. I have a certain amount of faith that the corruptness and ineptitude of government will do damage control. In my experience, American voters routinely choose against their best interests. Yes, people may have liked Bush's "moral tone," but they also like social security and health care and jobs. Many legislators realize that their continuing to live fat and happy in the DC suburbs depends on satisfying their constituency to some minimal degree. Some conservatives are now leaving the Bush camp, so his support base might erode, even if the cash flow from the Christian counterparts to jihad continues. Moreover, I suspect that somewhere in Bush's second term, something is going to hit the fan, perhaps Iraq, and the government will have a two-year stalemate, as it did over Clinton's damp cigar. I have my fears, just as everyone on this list does. But I have faith in the incompetence of the system to contain the damage to a greater degree than many people on the List expect. You can call Robert's point weak and ad hominmen. Again, I don't know your experience with government. All I can do is tell you my experience in a politically-charged bureaucracy and that one of my closest friends is a leftist reporter (www.newfocus.org ) who speaks with Greg Pallast, members of both political parties, ranks high in the CT Greens and has at times buddied up with Ralph Nader. Vernon From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of alexander saliby Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 9:17 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The GOP on the ROMP Vernon, Sorry to misunderstand your comment, but would you mind explaining what it is that Robert Corbett said that constitutes, in your opinion, a "Very good point?" First, Robert says, "...I don't think that is on the neo-con agenda..." In my view, Robert misses the point of the HR 3799 entirely. The Conservative agenda is about power, and how to both increase the amount they have and how to retain it over the next 40 or 50 years. And there are a host of ploys which the Right has used effectively over the past 15 years to reverse their power-lagging status and take control of both the house and the senate. In addition, as some of us know, they own the white house and are poised to restructure the Supreme court. The bill isn't about what's on their agenda, it's about helping them fulfill their agenda. Two specific ploys the Right has used to great success are: their appeal to the masses to descry the absence of God in our government, and the criticism of the nation's Education system (let's not digress on the ed point). Putting HR3799 up for consideration plays to the Right's "our government's lack of god" ploy quite nicely. And if the bill is defeated, the right wins because they get to shout: "See, we told you!" And the good Christian folks in Ohio will slink back to their voter booths and say, "Yeah; you all are right. We need God back in our government." Then they'll pull the level for another Right-wing candidate. Better yet, if the bill manages to come out of committee and pass...Holy Shit! they win again! And I don't think I need to explain why or how here. And Robert's point, and indeed yours here regarding whether a bill can be passed too misses the point of strategic counter-arguing. Iinitiating bills (whether or not they even make it out of committee to the floor to get voted on) is a ploy that plays to the issue of keeping the Right and the Left at odds while working on the effort of appealing to the moderates for support of their wholesome, virtue rich agenda. And finally, in Robert's points, he implies that I lack knowledge of the governmental process. While that comment is a charmingly weak ad hominum at best, it lacks credibility because it is a presumption based on the writer's uninformed opinion. Which, if I'm correct, and the point is both unfounded and unsubstantiated...hardly qualifies for a .."Very good point" comment. IMHO So, if you wouldn't mind, could you take a moment and elaborate on exactly what it is Robert wrote that represents a "Very good point." Thanks, Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Vernon Frazer To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 5:13 PM Subject: Re: The GOP on the ROMP Very good point. When I worked for the State of CT, at least one legislator each session proposed something so idiotic that no remotely reasonable person would vote in favor of. And passing a bill involves so much favor-trading etc that most proposals that raise alarms die early and deserving deaths. In the face of Bush et al, the complexity of the system may be our best hope. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Corbett Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 7:45 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The GOP on the ROMP somehow I don't think that is on the neo-con agenda. all they care about is making the UW World Leader Number One for a long as possible. with or without God, they don't care. it is on the Goldwater/John Birch/Theocratic right side. and this won't past muster, probably not in the house, certainly not in the Senate, but especially not in the Supreme Court. there is that clause about separation. this is some dim bulb's bright idea. screaming lefty about it is what they want you to do. geez, people, can we all agree to consult with someone knowledgeable about how bills work before we scream that the end is here. robert slowly turning into a pro-benevolent despoter alexander saliby > wrote: I have not confirmed the veracity of this material yet; if I find it untrue, I'll post that. Meanwhile, if it is true, we must ask ourselves, "how are we different from the Taliban?" Alex Subject: SCARIER YET : THEOCRACY AND THE U.S. LEGAL SYSTEM ! The neo-cons are pushing a law through Congress that would "acknowledge God as the sovereign source of law, liberty [and] government" [ http://context.themoscowtimes.com/index.php?aid=131199 ] in the United States. What's more, it would forbid all legal challenges to government officials who use the power of the state to enforce their own view of "God's sovereign authority." Any judge who dared even hear such a challenge could be removed from office. You don't believe it? It's called Constitution Restoration Act of 2004. And here it is: Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 HR 3799 IH 108th CONGRESS 2d Session H. R. 3799 To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and promote federalism. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES February 11, 2004 Mr. ADERHOLT (for himself and Mr. PENCE) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary A BILL To limit the jurisdiction of Federal courts in certain cases and promote federalism. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Constitution Restoration Act of 2004'. TITLE I--JURISDICTION SEC. 101. APPELLATE JURISDICTION. (a) IN GENERAL- (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `Sec. 1260. Matters not reviewable `Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Supreme Court shall not have jurisdiction to review, by appeal, writ of certiorari, or otherwise, any matter to the extent that relief is sought against an element of Federal, State, or local government, or against an officer of Federal, State, or local government (whether or not acting in official personal capacity), by reason of that element's or officer's acknowledgement of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government.'. (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `1260. Matters not reviewable.'. (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1260 of title 28, United States Code, as added by subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of enactment of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to be included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. SEC. 102. LIMITATIONS ON JURISDICTION. (a) IN GENERAL- (1) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 28- Chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end of the following: `Sec. 1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to review `Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the district court shall not have jurisdiction of a matter if the Supreme Court does not have jurisdiction to review that matter by reason of section 1260 of this title.'. (2) TABLE OF SECTIONS- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `1370. Matters that the Supreme Court lacks jurisdiction to review.'. (b) APPLICABILITY- Section 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by subsection (a), shall not apply to an action pending on the date of enactment of this Act, except to the extent that a party or claim is sought to be included in that action after the date of enactment of this Act. TITLE II--INTERPRETATION SEC. 201. INTERPRETATION OF THE CONSTITUTION. In interpreting and applying the Constitution of the United States, a court of the United States may not rely upon any constitution, law, administrative rule, Executive order, directive, policy, judicial decision, or any other action of any foreign state or international organization or agency, other than the constitutional law and English common law. TITLE III--ENFORCEMENT SEC. 301. EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL CASES NOT BINDING ON STATES. Any decision of a Federal court which has been made prior to or after the effective date of this Act, to the extent that the decision relates to an issue removed from Federal jurisdiction under section 1260 or 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by this Act, is not binding precedent on any State court. SEC. 302. IMPEACHMENT, CONVICTION, AND REMOVAL OF JUDGES FOR CERTAIN EXTRAJURISDICTIONAL ACTIVITIES. To the extent that a justice of the Supreme Court of the United States or any judge of any Federal court engages in any activity that exceeds the jurisdiction of the court of that justice or judge, as the case may be, by reason of section 1260 or 1370 of title 28, United States Code, as added by this Act, engaging in that activity shall be deemed to constitute the commission of-- (1) an offense for which the judge may be removed upon impeachment and conviction; and (2) a breach of the standard of good behavior required by article III, section 1 of the Constitution. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:12:46 -0500 Reply-To: waldreid@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: waldreid@EARTHLINK.NET Subject: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i was very happy to see the post below---always very happy to see when a no= n-academic wins something (=E2=80=9Cthe only winner who did not hold an ad= vanced degree and/or teach=E2=80=9D)! not that all academics are undeserv= ing, obviously, please don't anyone here take offense. i RARELY see my fa= vorites among big-time winners in anything. i get in lots of squabbles for= complaining about this and about poet laureates etc. etc. and personally,= although i=E2=80=99ve won my share of stuff over the years (including the = MA award once, like michael hoerman....hey, and MA didn=E2=80=99t pick bush= either! everybody move to MA!?), the nea ignores me and my favorites year= after year after YEAR, and i now try---although it is disappointing, don't= get me wrong---to use it as a reverse barometer of how well i=E2=80=99m wr= iting, because it=E2=80=99s pretty clear they usually only pick =E2=80=9Cth= eir type=E2=80=9D---which IMHO is not a good or interesting type to be.....= .so why apply? the money of course---and the off-chance that i'll slip thr= ough the guard. i wish i had BIG money and i would start an alternative ne= a and make awards to (ahem) the "right" people! imagine a robert-pinsky-ty= pe-person applying and NOT GETTING ONE---what a character-building experien= ce!!!! ha! also i would buy a llama farm. maybe there is a way of star= ting an alternative award system if we all contributed and invested the $$$= ---but of course if we were financially alert and able i guess we wouldn't = be writing poems! but i mean, really, how come if we're so smart we can't = think of a way to support each other in this "award" way since the governme= nt won't? =20 a happy alternative thanksgiving to all, diane wald -------------------- The mechanism by which most fellowships are awarded is tilted in favor of t= he insider. With the Guggenheim, to be eligible one must obtain four letter= s of support. The letters that carry the greatest weight are those written = by past winners. Over the past several years Guggenheim Fellowships in poet= ry have been awarded almost exclusively to academics. Not surprising. Acade= mics are better situated to ask for and receive such support, tightening a = closed loop. The NEA fellowship has similarly been awarded to academics yea= r in, year out. I think the rarefied air is getting to the mighty. Certain = that anything outside their paradigm is illegitimate, they don't hesitate i= n what they do--namely, stick it to outsiders. Silliman is an exception, I = suppose. I was one, too, this past May, when I won the Mass Cultural Counci= l poetry award. I was the only winner who did not hold an advanced degree a= nd/or teach. I was thrilled to find out that I'd never met any of the reade= rs or panelists. I know winning in the future is a long shot, because human= nature is such to favor those perceived to be like oneself. Besides, I am = likely to have pissed off a good many potential panelists by this point. Michael Hoerman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:06:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: andrew loewen Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Everything can have meaning? I'm Still Scared of Myself MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ON Thu, 25 Nov 2004 00:48:49 +1300 "richard.tylr" richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ> wrote childishly: >>>>> You are avoiding the point of definition of class according to Marxist concepts -as I said you don't have to accept the terminology - but if you do, then that definition I explained to you is true. To others (in this you can learn) - the writer also ignores everything else I said and picks on one aspect in an attempt to humiliate me. Very slick with her knowledge on The Enlightenment and Rapture but vague on Class concepts. 3/10 - please do better next time - and READ the text carefully before trying to answer the question.....Dont use words such as "petits" it looks clever but we get a "sinking feeling" when we see terms like that in answers by our pupils.... I know it's cool and "with it" and very "now" to be clever these days but please be clear or you will be marked VERY hard by teacher.... Richard Taylor >>>>>>>> With all due respect, must you be such an arrogant, condescending person? If you must, I guess I understand. If, however, you could do something about your petty, dogmatic – and often typographically egregious – posts I, for one, would be willing to commend the effort. Perhaps there is a history or dynamics I’m unaware of, but I don’t understand why you’d speak to a poet on this list in such a manner. -- Andrew. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:29:53 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: Michael Gizzi's email Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Michael Gizzi gave me his email address a few weeks ago, but then I lost it...was on a small slip of paper... Michael, if you or anyone else reads this, please respond backchannel with contact info. Best, Tim Peterson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:52:04 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let's all remind ourselves that the 1950s and 1960s produced two major poetic shifts that both found their way into the mainstream: the Beats and the New York School. These were avant-garde events. If one were to judge the development of poetry in the USA exclusively via the 2003 NEA winners, one would never know that these two developments occurred. It's as if they've been buried the way Reagan tried to bury all the cultural victories of the 60s. Again, except for Ron, the poetry represented in the winners circle is as bland as dry white bread. I am not annoyed. I am not angry. I am flabbergasted! Why is it that the other arts -- painting, film, dance, theater -- continue to change and develop, in fact demand change and development, while the NEA's message is that poetry has not advanced an inch since the confessionals. The major confessionals (Plath, Sexton, etc.), by the way, were far more interesting and daring than what we get from these winners. In my own department, only a few of my academic colleagues are conscious of ongoing agitations in contemporary poetry. I hardly blame them because, for the most part, their areas of specialization do not include the contemporary. Most of them are Renaissance scholars, or Victorian scholars, or Medievalists, etc. But the panelists should know better, right? They are judging contemporary work, so they should know something about it. They should know something about the sterility of Creative Workshop clone poems, right? After all, enough articles have been written on the subject. I wouldn't mind so much if the winning poems, all conventionally structured (but for Ron's), offered some juice, some edge, if they cut your fingers when handled. It's mind boggling that after all the battles that have been fought and won, we're back to square one. Are these panelists so clueless? Believe me, I'm not at all comfortable putting the hard working winners in the middle of all this, no matter how conventional they may be. They have my apologies. But what else is to be done? Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:57:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: from David Baptiste chirot Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >From: "David-Baptiste Chirot" >To: damon001@umn.edu >Bcc: >Subject: re poetry & playing >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:10:06 -0600 >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2004 20:11:02.0845 (UTC) >FILETIME=[640ABED0:01C4D0CF] > >one of the greatest recordings i have ever heard of poetry and Free Jazz is: >SONNY'S TIME NOW on the Jihad Label form Newark, N.J. > >Don Cherry and Sonny Murray are incrdible in Free Jazz anger, >soaring beauty, call and repsonse, frenzy and dream of freedom-- >on one side is music only-- >on the other is "Leroi Jones" jazz poetry with this incrdible >gaterhing of musicians-- >i am sorry i can't recall the name of the drummer--the notes said he >rarely recorded--but incredible drumming!--a true anger and glory in >it--and as fast and furious as any punk--beyond that--into new >territories-- >all the while Sonny and Don moving outwo/ards also, while al the >while keeping a true feeling of the streets-- >rebellion--power--anger--pride --in the music >Kenneth Patchen also recorded some jazz accomapnied poetry-- >(i think Rexroth may have also, when this was in fashion--) >years before i heard the album--Don had introduced me to "Leroi >Jones'" THE SYSTEM OF DANTE'S HELL-and when i heard SONNY'S TIME >NOW--it evoked much the feeling of that novel--and took it into >poetry and music-- >Bob Cobbing, while not jazz--did some incredible sound poetry >accompanying himself with a drum he carried about in what looked >like an immense pizza box--he had also traveled germany with a >guitarist-- >a great many artists have done recordings with instruments of their >own devising, while pouring forth their poetries-- >Jean Dubuffet is one-- >many sound poets through the 20 the century did music accompanied >performances--(often with invented instruments)-- >starting perhaps with Italian Futurists-- >and in Russia 1913--the opera VICTORY OVER THE SUN--with zaum text >by Kruchonyk, music by Matyushin and sets, the first examples of >Suprematism, by Malevich-- >and there is of course Sappho and her lyre! >poetry and playing is one of the most ancient forms of human expression-- >to see Bob Cobbing booming his drum and pouring forth sounds >inspried by twelve panels of hsi works ondislay-- >that took one back in time--the sound/visual/music/performance--not >all seperated as later-- >onwo/ards! >david-baptiste chirot > > > >Find the music you love on >MSN Music. Start downloading now! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:37:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In-Reply-To: <196.32c64ca8.2ed61634@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Yes, but . . . there are mainstreams and there are mainstreams, and there is more than one way of being academic. Yes, the Objectivists, Beats, Black Mountain Poets, New York School poets, and more recently Language poets have all been studied and taught by academics. They have had some dissertations, conferences, etc. Some of them, but by no means the majority, have even found their way into literary professorships. A lot less of them have found their way into creative writing professorships. They have generally not had that much impact on the Creative Writing Programs, the AWP, etc., which seem to be the "mainstream" that has more constant contact with winning NEA fellowships. Yes, there have been some signs (look at the panels for programs in the last two AWP conferences) that this situation is changing, but it's not changing a lot or quickly. I don't actually know that I'd welcome such change, other than, sure, it would be good for more of the poets I read and love to have more support for their work, but I'm not sure there wouldn't be some problematics involved in being more in tune with that part (creative writing programs) of the academy. Charles At 11:52 AM 11/24/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Let's all remind ourselves that the 1950s and 1960s produced two major poetic >shifts that both found their way into the mainstream: the Beats and the New >York School. These were avant-garde events. If one were to judge the >development of poetry in the USA exclusively via the 2003 NEA winners, one >would >never know that these two developments occurred. It's as if they've been >buried >the way Reagan tried to bury all the cultural victories of the 60s. Again, >except for Ron, the poetry represented in the winners circle is as bland >as dry >white bread. > >I am not annoyed. I am not angry. I am flabbergasted! Why is it that the >other arts -- painting, film, dance, theater -- continue to change and >develop, >in fact demand change and development, while the NEA's message is that poetry >has not advanced an inch since the confessionals. The major confessionals >(Plath, Sexton, etc.), by the way, were far more interesting and daring than >what we get from these winners. > >In my own department, only a few of my academic colleagues are conscious of >ongoing agitations in contemporary poetry. I hardly blame them because, for >the most part, their areas of specialization do not include the contemporary. >Most of them are Renaissance scholars, or Victorian scholars, or Medievalists, >etc. But the panelists should know better, right? They are judging >contemporary work, so they should know something about it. They should >know something >about the sterility of Creative Workshop clone poems, right? After all, >enough articles have been written on the subject. > >I wouldn't mind so much if the winning poems, all conventionally structured >(but for Ron's), offered some juice, some edge, if they cut your fingers when >handled. It's mind boggling that after all the battles that have been fought >and won, we're back to square one. Are these panelists so clueless? > >Believe me, I'm not at all comfortable putting the hard working winners in >the middle of all this, no matter how conventional they may be. They have my >apologies. But what else is to be done? > >Best, Bill > >WilliamJamesAustin.com >kojapress.com >amazon.com >b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:27:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In-Reply-To: <196.32c64ca8.2ed61634@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, I wish I had some answers, but I don't. Like governments in general, I look at the NEA as an institution that in no way supports my interests or addresses my concern. I'd love to have an NEA notch in my gun, but knowing who gets the awards, I remind myself that completing pointless paperwork is a waste of time. The last time I looked, the head of NEA was a poet who'd most likely favor the kind of poets you've described. If Reagan attempted to bury the artistic and social gains of the 60s, Bush and his administration seem to be burying the gains of the 50s. Maybe they'll air Dobie Gilis with Maynard G. Krebs edited out of the scripts. Maybe June Cleaver will be restored to her former prominence. I don't want to eat white bread, so I make my own, as you know. Oddly, jazz fares better. It's abstract, so you can't box it in the way you can works of language, whose preferentiality could make for controversy. And it doesn't have naked bodies on its CD covers. Just keep working beneath the underground. A lot of the time I pretend I'm a secular monk writing for a more enlightened time than the present. I'm not opposed to raising some hell, though. Best, Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Austinwja@AOL.COM Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 11:52 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea Let's all remind ourselves that the 1950s and 1960s produced two major poetic shifts that both found their way into the mainstream: the Beats and the New York School. These were avant-garde events. If one were to judge the development of poetry in the USA exclusively via the 2003 NEA winners, one would never know that these two developments occurred. It's as if they've been buried the way Reagan tried to bury all the cultural victories of the 60s. Again, except for Ron, the poetry represented in the winners circle is as bland as dry white bread. I am not annoyed. I am not angry. I am flabbergasted! Why is it that the other arts -- painting, film, dance, theater -- continue to change and develop, in fact demand change and development, while the NEA's message is that poetry has not advanced an inch since the confessionals. The major confessionals (Plath, Sexton, etc.), by the way, were far more interesting and daring than what we get from these winners. In my own department, only a few of my academic colleagues are conscious of ongoing agitations in contemporary poetry. I hardly blame them because, for the most part, their areas of specialization do not include the contemporary. Most of them are Renaissance scholars, or Victorian scholars, or Medievalists, etc. But the panelists should know better, right? They are judging contemporary work, so they should know something about it. They should know something about the sterility of Creative Workshop clone poems, right? After all, enough articles have been written on the subject. I wouldn't mind so much if the winning poems, all conventionally structured (but for Ron's), offered some juice, some edge, if they cut your fingers when handled. It's mind boggling that after all the battles that have been fought and won, we're back to square one. Are these panelists so clueless? Believe me, I'm not at all comfortable putting the hard working winners in the middle of all this, no matter how conventional they may be. They have my apologies. But what else is to be done? Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:31:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041124102922.01e31d28@mail.theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm not a full on expert on all the writers who received grants in 2003 from NEA; and I sincerely concede the point that with startling frequency it seems like even modernism's innovations never occurred let alone postmodernism, but I do think we shouldn't make statements about the list of writers especially the "except Ron" variety. It's too counter to the idea of actually trying to "read", to try to understand a writer without packing them away into some camp they are supposed to fit in. "except Ron" also packs Ron away into a camp, too. For just a little example I encourage you to try to find print or on-line works by Diane Glancy Joanna Goodman D.A. Powell Paisley Rekdal Larissa Szporluk interesting and compelling writers all, not *quite* square in the mainstream or as white bread as is being portrayed. > >Let's all remind ourselves that the 1950s and 1960s > produced two major poetic > >shifts that both found their way into the > mainstream: the Beats and the New > >York School. These were avant-garde events. If > one were to judge the > >development of poetry in the USA exclusively via > the 2003 NEA winners, one > >would > >never know that these two developments occurred. > It's as if they've been > >buried > >the way Reagan tried to bury all the cultural > victories of the 60s. Again, > >except for Ron, the poetry represented in the > winners circle is as bland > >as dry > >white bread. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:33:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: A*hole Book Events In-Reply-To: <196.32c64ca8.2ed61634@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you're in the Bay Area, you're invited to a book celebration and=20 reading. Dec. 8 in Seattle and Dec. 9 in Portland, OR -- more information= =20 on those events next week. Come to a celebration and reading of A*hole by Hilton Obenzinger at The Stanford Bookstore Thursday December 2 at 6PM. Refreshments will be served. A*hole *a novel by Hilton Obenzinger (Soft Skull Press) With A*HOLE, Hilton Obenzinger has created an experimental fiction readers= =20 will experience as much as read. He draws from sources as varied as Dante,= =20 Mark Twain, the Patty Hearst story, the Biblical story of Abraham & Isaac,= =20 Melville's Ishmael, detective fiction, his own experiences as a father and= =20 a teacher on the Yurok Indian reservation, Hollywood, the porn industry and= =20 more, which he swirls together around the vortex created by the pull of his= =20 central hole. A young boy wakes one morning to discover he is sinking into the earth=20 despite the new sneakers his parents promised would save him. A young woman= =20 begins reviewing films before they are made. A postal worker named Gary=20 fulfills his occupational clich=E9 and attacks Danny DeVito. A father writes= =20 letters to his wayward and far-flung sons. An archeologist finds evidence,= =20 perhaps, of the permanence of time as well as earth. A detective accepts a= =20 case requiring him to connect Patty Hearst to her other self. Though the=20 story in A*HOLE is in continual flux, Obenzinger skillfully braids the=20 multiple narrative threads into a novel which is much larger than its=20 physical size, lyrically beautiful, and absorbing through and through. =93Hilton Obenzinger is an American original. His lost histories are acts of= =20 legerdemain and cunning mixing truth and imagination in ways rarely seen=20 before.=94 Paul Auster About the author: Hilton Obenzinger=92s books include Running Through Fire: How I Survived the= =20 Holocaust by Zosia Goldberg as Told to Hilton Obenzinger, an oral history=20 of his aunt=92s ordeal during the war; American Palestine: Melville, Twain,= =20 and the Holy Land Mania, a literary and historical study of America=92s=20 fascination with the Holy Land; Cannibal Eliot and the Lost Histories of=20 San Francisco, a novel of invented documents that recounts the history of=20 San Francisco from the Spanish conquest to the 1906 earthquake and fire;=20 New York on Fire, a history of the fires of New York in verse, selected by= =20 the Village Voice as one of the best books of the year and nominated by the= =20 Bay Area Book Reviewer=92s Association for its poetry award; and This=20 Passover Or The Next I Will Never Be in Jerusalem, winner of the Before=20 Columbus American Book Award. He teaches writing and American literature at= =20 Stanford University. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:52:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: NEA outrage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's a disgrace that poets that are still eligible for NEA grants, unlike Visual Artists, who can hold their brushes high. The problem is that Congress doesn't think we are enough of a threat to eliminate these grants to us. This is an embarrassment and needs to be changed. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 8:37 PM Subject: Re: NEA outrage > In a message dated 11/23/04 8:14:12 PM, jamato2@ILSTU.EDU writes: > > << bill (ron?), ron silliman won an nea two years ago, yes?... i apply > for the poetry nea every coupla years... just rec'd my reject this > year in fact, and am looking forward [cough] to learning who ended up > with the $20K this time 'round... > > very happy for ron, of course... but if you read this past sunday's > nytbr---"the poetry issue"---you'll likely be at least as distressed, > in general, at how poetry is made to play to said imagined > readership... a most interesting exercise in fact is to make a list > of the presses that publish the work reviewed therein... > > best, > > joe >> > > I am an academic. Many of the innovative thinkers in most disciplines are > academics. The entire poststructuralist movement is governed by academics. > L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry is academic. Medical advances are usually instigated by > academics. And on and on. But these panelists and winners! I don't know > where these academics/poets are coming from. It's as if they all live and work in > caves, unaware that digital television is now available. > > Well, maybe I do know where they're coming from. The list of winners for > 2003 evinces a very neat spread across the nation. Every area of the country is > represented equally. How did that happen if submissions are blind? Something > else is going on in addition to antique academic tastes gone nuts. Some > shoo-be-do is at work here. There must be a few innovative artists among middle > Americans? Do they all conform to the same worn out rubbish? Imagine a > Renaissance with an NEA. Imagine the 19th century! Today's best anthologies, > generally records of innovation, would contain the same poem repeated for 1000 > pages. Blake, Coleridge, Shelley, who are they? Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Lautremont > -- forget them. Stein, Cummings -- no way. > > I don't know whether or not to be happy for Ron. He's probably the only one > on the list of winners who actually deserves the award. But in this crowd of > winners, he seems like the mistake, the one that got away, dare I say it -- > the token. I'd bet money that if some unknown had submitted Ron's manuscript, > word for word, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the winners circle, not > with this group of panelists. Someone on the panel was able to match work and > author, and I suspect that happened with many of the other winners. > > Whew! I'd rather have my tax dollar pork barreled to wine tasters, rather > than have it swiped for this nonsense. > > Best, Bill > > WilliamJamesAustin.com > kojapress.com > amazon.com > b&n.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:12:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: "Jodi Lacy" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Please Post: CFP: Inspiration of Astronomical Phenomenon Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit CALL FOR PAPERS Inspiration of Astronomical Phenomenon Conference Proposal Deadline: December 31, 2004 Conference Dates: June 26 – July 1, 2005 Conference Location: Adler Planetarium & Astronomy Museum, Chicago Proposals are invited for conference presentations at the Fifth International Conference on the Inspiration of Astronomical Phenomenon (INSAP). INSAP conferences explore the rich and diverse ways in which people of the past and present incorporate astronomical events into literary, visual, and performance arts. This emphasis distinguishes INSAP from other conferences that focus on archeoastronomy, ethnoastronomy, or cultural astronomy. INSAP provides a mechanism for a broad sampling of artists, writers, musicians, historians, philosophers, scientists, and others to talk about the diversity of astronomical inspiration. INSAP V will be based at the Adler Planetarium & Astronomy Museum in Chicago from June 26 – July 1, 2005. Mornings and early afternoons are devoted to conference presentations. Afternoons and evenings will include field trips and artistic performances. Venues include the University of Chicago’s Oriental Institute, the Art Institute of Chicago, and the Adler Planetarium. Invited speakers at INSAP V include Barbara Stafford, Professor of Art History, University of Chicago; Jim Kaler, Professor Emeritus of Astronomy, University of Illinois; John Carswell, former curator of Islamic art at the Oriental Institute and Sotheby’s; Donna Cox, Professor of Art and Design, University of Illinois; Mary Quinlan, Professor of Art History, Northern Illinois University; and Michael Shank, Professor of the History of Science, University of Wisconsin. INSAP V is dedicated to the memory of one of its founders and strong supporters, Ray White, Jr. Conference Presentations: A complete proposal for a conference presentation includes a Presentation Proposal Cover Sheet; a 250-word Presentation Proposal Abstract; and a one-page CV. We especially invite presentations on the inspiration of art produced for public spaces, including planetaria. Proposals relating to North American arts and modern astronomy are also encouraged. Artists are encouraged to submit proposals for presentations or exhibitions within a planetarium theater or in one of the gallery spaces reserved for the conference (these proposals may include up to five image attachments). INSAP V offers several presentation formats: slides, Powerpoint, video, DVD, and two planetarium theaters (with Zeiss and Digistar/StarRider technologies). We will have a traditional poster presentation format as well as an electronic bulletin board for displays. The latter formats may be made accessible to general Adler Planetarium visitors. Notifications will be sent on February 28, 2005. Forms and further information are available on the INSAP website: www.adlerplanetarium.org/INSAPV Complete proposals (Cover Sheet, Abstract, CV) must be received by December 31, 2004. Emailed proposals are preferred. Proposals and questions should be sent to [ mailto:jlacy@adlernet.org ]INSAPV@adernet.org or: INSAP V History of Astronomy Department Adler Planetarium & Astronomy Museum 1300 South Lake Shore Drive Chicago, Illinois 60605 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:20:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: A*hole Book Events In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20041124092539.023b9e48@hobnzngr.pobox.stanford.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable As an old hand in the book biz, Hilton, can I suggest you let people know where they can most conveniently order your book online, from Soft Skull or wherever. The death of the bookstore - let alone the bookstore that may order A*Hole - I assume makes other avenues de rigor. Or has it made it in the Chains - Borders, Barnes and who's left? Can we assume it's on Amazon? Or? And, to top it all off, does modesty prevent you from a quote or two from any hot, fresh reviews that aren't obvious plugs? Your cheery friend, Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > If you're in the Bay Area, you're invited to a book celebration and > reading. Dec. 8 in Seattle and Dec. 9 in Portland, OR -- more informatio= n > on those events next week. >=20 > Come to a celebration and reading of A*hole by Hilton Obenzinger > at The Stanford Bookstore Thursday December 2 at 6PM. >=20 > Refreshments will be served. >=20 >=20 > A*hole >=20 > *a novel by Hilton Obenzinger >=20 > (Soft Skull Press) >=20 >=20 > With A*HOLE, Hilton Obenzinger has created an experimental fiction reader= s > will experience as much as read. He draws from sources as varied as Dante= , > Mark Twain, the Patty Hearst story, the Biblical story of Abraham & Isaac= , > Melville's Ishmael, detective fiction, his own experiences as a father an= d > a teacher on the Yurok Indian reservation, Hollywood, the porn industry a= nd > more, which he swirls together around the vortex created by the pull of h= is > central hole. >=20 > A young boy wakes one morning to discover he is sinking into the earth > despite the new sneakers his parents promised would save him. A young wom= an > begins reviewing films before they are made. A postal worker named Gary > fulfills his occupational clich=E9 and attacks Danny DeVito. A father write= s > letters to his wayward and far-flung sons. An archeologist finds evidence= , > perhaps, of the permanence of time as well as earth. A detective accepts = a > case requiring him to connect Patty Hearst to her other self. Though the > story in A*HOLE is in continual flux, Obenzinger skillfully braids the > multiple narrative threads into a novel which is much larger than its > physical size, lyrically beautiful, and absorbing through and through. >=20 > =93Hilton Obenzinger is an American original. His lost histories are acts o= f > legerdemain and cunning mixing truth and imagination in ways rarely seen > before.=94 Paul Auster >=20 > About the author: >=20 > Hilton Obenzinger=92s books include Running Through Fire: How I Survived th= e > Holocaust by Zosia Goldberg as Told to Hilton Obenzinger, an oral history > of his aunt=92s ordeal during the war; American Palestine: Melville, Twain, > and the Holy Land Mania, a literary and historical study of America=92s > fascination with the Holy Land; Cannibal Eliot and the Lost Histories of > San Francisco, a novel of invented documents that recounts the history of > San Francisco from the Spanish conquest to the 1906 earthquake and fire; > New York on Fire, a history of the fires of New York in verse, selected b= y > the Village Voice as one of the best books of the year and nominated by t= he > Bay Area Book Reviewer=92s Association for its poetry award; and This > Passover Or The Next I Will Never Be in Jerusalem, winner of the Before > Columbus American Book Award. He teaches writing and American literature = at > Stanford University. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---> - > Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. > Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs > Lecturer, Department of English > Stanford University > 415 Sweet Hall > 650.723.0330 > 650.724.5400 Fax > obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:46:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Corrections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For marxists, read "Maoists". And "Libertarians" should be capitalized, so as to distinguish between a fully realized philosophic viewpoint (lc) as opposed to a party or faction (UC). Robert Corbett wrote: Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:51:42 -0800 From: Robert Corbett Subject: Heresies To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU From a distance (a lengthy and indifferent one), libertarians and marxists look awfully similar. rmc ____ I will discuss perfidy with scholars as if spurning kisses, I will sip the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love? - Lisa Robertson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:46:41 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/24/04 11:53:00 AM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > I am not annoyed.=A0 I am not angry.=A0 I am flabbergasted!=A0 Why is it t= hat the > other arts -- painting, film, dance, theater -- continue to change and=20 > develop, > in fact demand change and development, while the NEA's message is that=20 > poetry > has not advanced an inch since the confessionals.=A0 >=20 Because all "the opther arts" to one extent or another involve money whereas= =20 poetry is the only medium wherte that connection is zero. Therefere, the ide= a=20 of a monetary award is a meaningless concept, as the awards or reviews in Th= e=20 News York times indicate. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:12:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: Re: NEA outrage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Joel raises a good point about upping the threat. I agree completely. One of the more heartening things I read in the past few years was an interview with Charles Bernstein, who said "I want an 'unpopular' poetry of 'anaffirmation' that expresses confusion, anger, ambiguity, distress, fumbling, awkwardness." Bernstein concludes that interview citing his poem "Don't Be So Sure (Don't Be Saussure)" as an example for what he discusses there. I like the description he gives of an unpopular poetry, and so forth, but I'm not 'so sure' whether this one really meets up to the description. I do think, though, that such a poetry as he describes could take things to another place entirely. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:17:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: A*hole Book Events In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:20 AM 11/24/2004 -0800, Stephen Vincent wrote: >As an old hand in the book biz, Hilton, can I suggest you let people know >where they can most conveniently order your book online, from Soft Skull or >wherever. The death of the bookstore - let alone the bookstore that may >order A*Hole - I assume makes other avenues de rigor. Or has it made it in >the Chains - Borders, Barnes and who's left? Can we assume it's on Amazon? >Or? Steve, You can get the book directly from Soft Skull or you can buy the book in many bookstores, including some of the chains. Barnes and Nobels in NYC has it face up in several stores, likewise in some Bay Area bookstores (the cover is a sell in its own right). You can also order it via Amazon, Powell's and the other on-line sources. Soft Skull has become a major small publisher -- and to be published by them indicates to most bookstores that the book is edgy, as Wanda Phipps can also attest. >And, to top it all off, does modesty prevent you from a quote or two from >any hot, fresh reviews that aren't obvious plugs? Few official reviews have appeared yet. A very positive review in "Creative Loafing" in Atlanta, for one, which focused on the religious dimensions. It would be a joy and a delight if anyone on this list writes a review. The book is advertised as a novel, but it's a hybrid of poetry and fiction. Woody Lewis, a Bay Area novelist, wrote a very perceptive review on the Amazon site. I copy it below. Obenzinger is that rare combination of novelist, narrative historian, and social commentator who weaves a captivating and relevant story. This hip blend of prose and a sprinkling of meta-poetry (generated in command line interface interludes that really do serve to punch things along) is a milestone on the order of Breton's "Nadja". Think James Joyce meets Tom Waits and Charles Bukowski. Really! He combines mythical parent-child musings with portraits of a cyber-Skid Row, the Philippine origins of a sect that worships the Nike "swoosh" logo, the journey of Danny DeVito on the cusp of a physical labyrinth, and religious metaphors that manage to encompass Jonah and Jeffrey Dahmer in a visceral counterpart to Dante's Inferno. Here is a deftly told tale that continues Obenzinger's expert use of the unreliable narrator that I first observed in his estimable work "Cannibal Eliot and the Lost Histories of San Francisco", which I also heartily recommend (there is even another girl embedded in a wall). Mark Twain's America has been updated with observations informed by Obenzinger's real-life stint teaching the Yurok Indians. He is the ultimate meta-narrator, who jumps in and out of his own story with startling ease and grace as he sows and then reaps a matrix of clues, symbolic associations, and point of view shifts that somehow make perfect sense. Behind these supple movements is the weight of a Stanford professor of American studies, Obenzinger's "other" job, where he ponders notions of Judeo-Christian paradigms with an original brand of scholarship. I literally felt I wanted to scan this book into a text file so I could run searches on it, surely the type of symbolic crossword that already exists in the author's mind. A must read, and a great story. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:28:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Asking for help about Slam poets etc In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041124102922.01e31d28@mail.theriver.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Here's a question I am sure many readers of this list know more about than I do. I am looking for references for a student of mine who wants to learn more about Slam poetry, and perhaps even trace some sort of link from the Oral performances of those like the Beats to what has happened in the oral performance scene of more recent years. Can anyone guide me to names, books, resources? I'm looking for things to suggest. Thanks for your time-- Julie Kizershot ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:34:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Everything can have meaning? I'm Still Scared of Myself In-Reply-To: <20041124160659.52938.qmail@web51501.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Andrew, Richard is a good sort. I wish too he would post at a less abstract level, but I praise the fact that he posts, and his eagerness to learn about what he doesn't know. Robert andrew loewen wrote: ON Thu, 25 Nov 2004 00:48:49 +1300 "richard.tylr" richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ> wrote childishly: >>>>> You are avoiding the point of definition of class according to Marxist concepts -as I said you don't have to accept the terminology - but if you do, then that definition I explained to you is true. To others (in this you can learn) - the writer also ignores everything else I said and picks on one aspect in an attempt to humiliate me. Very slick with her knowledge on The Enlightenment and Rapture but vague on Class concepts. 3/10 - please do better next time - and READ the text carefully before trying to answer the question.....Dont use words such as "petits" it looks clever but we get a "sinking feeling" when we see terms like that in answers by our pupils.... I know it's cool and "with it" and very "now" to be clever these days but please be clear or you will be marked VERY hard by teacher.... Richard Taylor >>>>>>>> With all due respect, must you be such an arrogant, condescending person? If you must, I guess I understand. If, however, you could do something about your petty, dogmatic – and often typographically egregious – posts I, for one, would be willing to commend the effort. Perhaps there is a history or dynamics I’m unaware of, but I don’t understand why you’d speak to a poet on this list in such a manner. -- Andrew. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:54:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Asking for help about Slam poets etc In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" rather than simply the beats, look at street corner and labor oratory, participatory performance cultures in West African/syncretic US and New World traditions, etc. Check out the first Nuyorican anthology from the 1970s (Nuyorican Poetry), the multicultural scene of the Bay Area 1970s/ (Time to Greez!), Black ARts Movement anthologies (Black Fire, Understanding the New Black Poetry, etc), Caribbean poetry traditions (VoicePrint) At 12:28 PM -0700 11/24/04, Julie Kizershot wrote: >Here's a question I am sure many readers of this list know more about than I >do. I am looking for references for a student of mine who wants to learn >more about Slam poetry, and perhaps even trace some sort of link from the >Oral performances of those like the Beats to what has happened in the oral >performance scene of more recent years. > > > Can anyone guide me to names, books, resources? I'm looking for things to >suggest. > > >Thanks for your time-- > > >Julie Kizershot -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:59:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: Re: Asking for help about Slam poets etc In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know of any books specifically, but Marc Smith in Chicago, who still (I believe) hosts the Uptown Poetry Slam at the Green Mill (corner of Lawrence and Broadway) takes credit for inventing the performance genre (in the mid '80s, I think) as a way of getting poetry away from celebrating the poet and towards celebrating the audience. I've asked him if he thought he was drawing anything from the poetry readings of the Beat Generation. He said he was more interested in the kindred spirit between the Slams and the Folk Music. Looks like there's a decent amount of information, as well as some books, on Smith's website: www.slampapi.com. Lucas -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Julie Kizershot Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 2:28 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Asking for help about Slam poets etc Here's a question I am sure many readers of this list know more about than I do. I am looking for references for a student of mine who wants to learn more about Slam poetry, and perhaps even trace some sort of link from the Oral performances of those like the Beats to what has happened in the oral performance scene of more recent years. Can anyone guide me to names, books, resources? I'm looking for things to suggest. Thanks for your time-- Julie Kizershot ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:32:07 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: Groundswell Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT If you only buy one Canadian poetry anthology culled from broadsides and chapbooks, created by the most dangerous (in a good way) and hardest working poet in Canada, let it be Groundswell. An eclectic buffet of Canadian poetry with too many stars to list, Groundswell also includes a lengthy bibliography that fascinates, plus a superlative introduction by Stephen Cain. Nathaniel G. Moore, Broken Pencil, issue 26 (Nov 2004) http://www.brokenjaw.com/catalog/pg82.htm -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:38:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nathaniel Siegel Subject: Thom Gunn Praise Reading Wed Dec 1st Bowery Poetry Club 10pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All: Hi ! Just wanted to invite everyone to a Thom Gunn Praise reading that I organized next Wednesday December 1st at 10pm at the Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery @Bleecker Street NYC tel 1 212 614 0505. $8/5 at the door. Come hear featured poets and writers: Eileen Myles Betsy Andrews Timothy Liu Douglas A. Martin Paolo Javier Regie Cabico Moonshine Shorey "You climbed in there beside him And hugged him plain in view, Though you were sick enough, And had your own fears too." From the poem Memory Unsettled "Their deaths have left me less defined: It was their pulsing presence made me clear." From the poem The Missing "The Man with Night Sweats" Farrar, Straus and Giroux 1992 Thom Gunn 1929-2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:47:56 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Asking for help about Slam poets etc In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Talk to this guy: http://www.livepoets.com/Poet.aspx?id=29 Michael Salinger -- he knows more than you really want to know about Slam Poetry and Slam poets. Marcus On 24 Nov 2004 at 12:28, Julie Kizershot wrote: > Here's a question I am sure many readers of this list know more about > than I do. I am looking for references for a student of mine who > wants to learn more about Slam poetry, and perhaps even trace some > sort of link from the Oral performances of those like the Beats to > what has happened in the oral performance scene of more recent years. > > > Can anyone guide me to names, books, resources? I'm looking for > things to > suggest. > > > Thanks for your time-- > > > Julie Kizershot > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:12:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paolo Javier Subject: PINOY POETICS book launch @ Hunter College, 12/4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You are cordially invited to attend "PINOY POETICS: Filipino American Poetry in Practice" A PANEL DISCUSSION & READING @ 6 pm room 217 West Lounge HUNTER COLLEGE sponsored by THE HUNTER COLLEGE ENGLISH DEPARTMENT KUNDIMAN (www.kundiman.org) & MERITAGE PRESS The event is FREE & open to the public, & will feature the following poets: LISA ASCALON SARAH GAMBITO JOSEPH LEGASPI BINO A. REALUYO BARBARA JANE REYES PATRICK ROSAL EILEEN TABIOS RON VILLANUEVA PAOLO JAVIER (moderator) The event marks the East Coast launch for the groundbreaking anthology "PINOY POETICS: A Collection of Autobiographical and Critical Essays on Filipino and Filipino American Poetics" edited by NICK CARBO, & published by MERITAGE PRESS (http://www.meritagepress.com/pinoypoetics.htm) POET BIOS: LISA ASCALON, a poetry fellow at the 2004 Kundiman Emerging Asian American Poet's Retreat, is based in New York City. SARAH GAMBITO has had poems appear in The Iowa Review, The Antioch Review, The New Republic, Quarterly West, Fence and other journals. She holds degrees from The University of Virginia and The Creative Writing Program at Brown University. Her collection of poems, Matadora, is forthcoming from Alice James Books. She is co-founder of Kundiman, an arts organization dedicated to emerging Asian American poets. PAOLO JAVIER is the author of the poetry collections 'the time at the end of this writing' (Ahadada), & '60 Lv Bo(e)mbs' (O Books, forthcoming in the fall of 2005). He has an MFA from Bard College, & teaches Asian American Studies and Creative Writing in New York City. JOSEPH O. LEGASPI was born in the Philippines, and raised there and in Los Angeles where he immigrated with his family when he was twelve. He holds degrees from Loyola Marymount University and the Creative Writing Program at New York University. Currently, he lives in New York City and works at Columbia University. His poems have appeared in numerous journals, recently in the North American Review, Spoon River Poetry Review, Crab Orchard Review, Puerto Del Sol, Poet Lore, The Literary Review, and Titling the Continent, an anthology of Southeast Asian literature. A recipient of a 2001 poetry fellowship from the New York Foundation for the Arts (NYFA), he is one of the founding members of Kundiman, a non-profit organization serving Asian American poets. BINO A. REALUYO's poetry has appeared in The Nation, New Letters, Manoa, Mid-American Review, Puerto del Sol, The Literary Review, The Kenyon Review, etc. He has received a Lucille Medwick Memorial Award from Poetry Society of America and a Van Lier fellowship in poetry. (www.geocities.com/realuyo) OR (http://calzoncillo.blogspot.com/) BARBARA JANE REYES was born in Manila and raised in the SF Bay Area. She received her undergraduate education at UC Berkeley, and is currently a MFA candidate at SF State University. She is the author of Gravities of Center, and currently at work on her second book (a book-length poem) entitled 'poeta en san francisco'. PATRICK ROSAL is the author of UPROCK HEADSPIN SCRAMBLE AND DIVE (Persea Books) and the chapbook UNCOMMON DENOMINATORS, winner of the Palanquin Poetry Series Award. His work has been published in many journals and anthologies including NORTH AMERICAN REVIEW, COLUMBIA, THE LITERARY REVIEW, and THE BEACON BEST 2001. He has been a featured reader at many venues in and out of NYC, from Boston to Daytona Beach, as well as in London and on the BBC's "World Today." He was the 2001 Emerging Writer in Residence at Penn State ltoona and is currently Assistant Professor of Creative Writing at Bloomfield College. EILEEN TABIOS has released a poetry CD; three e-poetry collections; and written, edited or co-edited thirteen books of poetry, fiction and essays since 1996 when she traded a finance career for poetry. Recent poetry books are Reproductions of the Empty Flagpole (2002) and Menage A Trois With the 21st Century (2004). In 2005, she will release a multi-genre work, I Take The, English, For My Beloved. She writes the infamous poetics blog, "The Chatelaine's Poetics" at http://chatelaine-poet.blogspot.com, while steering Meritage Press (publisher of Pinoy Poetics), a press based in St. Helena, CA where, as a budding grape farmer, she is arduously researching the poetry of wine. R.A. VILLANUEVA holds graduate and undergraduate degrees from Rutgers University and teaches British and American Literature at Edison High School. He is a recipient of a Geraldine R. Dodge scholarship to the Fine Arts Work Center and was recently awarded a place in Kundiman's inaugural Emerging Asian-American Poets Retreat. He lives in New York City. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:30:14 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Everything can have meaning? I Still Like Alan's Work In-Reply-To: <004801c4d21b$905bc5e0$af4f36d2@computer> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Mr Teacher My name is spelt "Croggon". On 24/11/04 10:48 PM, "richard.tylr" wrote: > I know it's cool and "with it" and very "now" to > be clever these days but please be clear or you will be marked VERY hard by > teacher.... I'm not at school. I'm a poet. And I'm also a real dag. Thankfully. A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:37:09 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Everything can have meaning? I'm Still Scared of Myself In-Reply-To: <20041124193409.65216.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 25/11/04 6:34 AM, "Robert Corbett" wrote: > Richard is a good sort. I wish too he would post at a less abstract level, > but I praise the fact that he posts, and his eagerness to learn about what he > doesn't know. I don't know Richard Taylor from a bar of soap, but I'm sure he is a "good sort". But it's not his abstraction that Andrew was objecting to, but his lack of civility. A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:43:27 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Corrections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I begin to see cheers L >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Corbett >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: 24 November 2004 18:46 >Subject: Corrections > > >>For marxists, read "Maoists". And "Libertarians" should be capitalized, so >as to distinguish between a fully realized philosophic viewpoint (lc) as >opposed to a party or faction (UC). >> >>Robert Corbett wrote: Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 >16:51:42 -0800 >>From: Robert Corbett >>Subject: Heresies >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >>From a distance (a lengthy and indifferent one), libertarians and marxists >look awfully similar. >> >>rmc >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:35:02 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/24/04 12:33:07 PM, kaajumiah@YAHOO.COM writes: << I'm not a full on expert on all the writers who received grants in 2003 from NEA; and I sincerely concede the point that with startling frequency it seems like even modernism's innovations never occurred let alone postmodernism, but I do think we shouldn't make statements about the list of writers especially the "except Ron" variety. It's too counter to the idea of actually trying to "read", to try to understand a writer without packing them away into some camp they are supposed to fit in. "except Ron" also packs Ron away into a camp, too. >> I respectfully disagree. I am most certainly packing most of the winners into one camp. And I've reached my conclusion after searching most of them out, and reading their poetry, carefully. For the most part, they are interchangeable. Worse, many of the lines in said poems are downright precious to the point of gag. Most of these winners are merely repeating worn out formulae. They may be technicians, but I can't accept that they are poets. And yes, I've also packed Ron into a camp (given that the L=A=N=G=U=G=E thing has been around for a while), the one whose members at least try to do something different, to stand out, i.e., to serve the art, to care about its progress, to care that it does, in fact, progress. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:47:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: CAE Defense Fund UPDATE Comments: To: DREAmtime@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends and Supporters of Critical Art Ensemble and freedom of knowledge and research: I am sending you this appeal for donations to the CAE Defense Fund because it is almost depleted and we are facing large bills in the coming months. The August bill for legal research and preparation of motions was over $10,000. The court has now set a hearing on defense motions for January 11, 2005. The outcome of this hearing will determine whether or not there is a trial, however, there is only a very small chance that there will not be a trial. There seems to be a strong determination on the part of the prosecution to pursue this case. It is in all our interest that a strong defense is mounted and that we show solidarity at this moment. So I appeal to you to think of this as your Christmas contribution. I'm hoping we can each give at least $10. Please make checks in any amount out to: "CAE Defense Fund" mail to: CAE Defense Fund, c/o Hallwalls 341 Delaware Ave. Buffalo, NY, 14202 http://www.caedefensefund.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:08:44 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: THE HAMMER - a Betrayal? Everything can have meaning? I'm Still Scared of Myself MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Msz Croggon and Alison & A Loefftwafwenn It's ok Msz - you're ok for a sheila. Your essay on The Enlightenment (and Raptor) was very enlightening - to be honnest I was getting out of my depth - I will try to stick to crosswords. Alan has me knackered - he's nearly as abstruse as Barrett Watten or me mate Ron S. * To the other bloke - Andrew Loetvwenn (strange name - everyone should be Smith,Jones, Bush or Taylor - have proper American or British names): I'm aware of my "bad" spelling but I'm not a good type(keyboarder) and my spell check flogtoggle machine doesn't alawys pick up my blunders. Remember I'm using Kiwi English. I apologise for thus being egregious * "One's wonder and amazement and admiration and excitement at or of a thing (or a work of literature,mathematics,art etc) is directly proportional to one's bafflement." Wittgenstein.** ** I apoligise for this mention of W as I really havent read alot of his works - only a strange book he wrote about mathematics and logic etc (sometimes therein is argued that 1+1 =1 which of course is total nonsense but W is a very interesting Philogoler I know ( well, I have heard he is or was)) - which in fact I have for sale online.....*** ****To be honnest I only red a few parts of tahttt book... ***** Of course you know I dont have Wittgenstein for sale only his book - his brother ((the piannaa player....} lost an arm and there are endless - or have been or were sonatasss concertos etc written for him - left handed concertoes etc****** ******* I dint meant m to say anythink 6 about left hand peoles s****** ********Its getting harder and harder to count ty tehth asataeriskss********* **********mispellink as methiiood>>???************* ************** (Jus tin case) I have to play hs soson ****************************** *********************************mmmispeilinink ans as asas asas as asas as as as a s aas a s asa s asas mismethoddd??????????mmissssssssss****************************************** ************* ******%%^666665555555556%$$$$$$$$#(())))))*()(* #$#$#$#########$sinister##########$############$# #$$$$####$$$$#####$$$$###$$$###$$$###$$$## #$#$#$$#$$$$$#$#$#$$#$$$$$$$#$#$#$#$$$#$# &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& %^%^^^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^^%^%%%^^^%^^%^%^ $%%%$%$%%$%$$%%%$%%$%$%$%%%%$$ ************************************************************ ************************************************************ ************************************************************ #####$$$$$$$$$$$$$############$$$$$$$$$# #$$$$$$$$$$##########$$$$$$$$$$$######## &&&&&***********&&&&&&&&&&&&&**********&&&& @##########@@@@@@@@#############@ #################sinsitreera######################## &*&&&&&&&&&&&&&&*&*&&&&&&&&&&&&&*&& #$#$#$#$#$#$#$$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$ +++++++++++++&&&&&&&&&&&&&++++++++++++ ************************************************************ money (()))))))))((((( ((((((())))))(((((((((((((((((())))))))(((((((((((()))))(e ))))))))))))))))) ))))))))) v+++++++++&*&&&&&&&&&&&&))))))))))((((((((((((((( $%$%$%$%$%$dextereararearea%$%$%$%$%$%%$%$%%$%$%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% wort?%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^&&&&&%%%%%^^^^^%%%%####$%$#%#@!*&%*&^%##&^$#^%#^%(* & blood and love \%*&%*&^%$&^%#^%$#%^$@#@%$&^%$^%$&^%wwwww987698769876987666^^^^%%$$$$$$$%%$$ $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ###################################### ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** **********************************************************| ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** ********************************************************** bert Corbett" wrote: > > > ichard is a god sort. I ish oo e wd post ata lss ct lvl, > > but I pise the fct that e psts, and is eagerness o earn out what he ************************************************************* ************************************************************* I actually dont know that much - the above is true as it goes - I returned to Uni age of 40 after years as labourer etc then a lineman and family man but started writing and reading again (literature etc) when I was 40 and so - yes I am eager to learn things and admit I am baffled by a lot but being baffled can be good - I 'm being serious here - and I often look up the answers to my poems after I have written them > > I on't no ichard aylor from a' barrr of oap, but I'm sure he is a "good > sorty". Bu^ i^ts no^ iz abstlaction t nde was bjecting to, t is > ack of iviliti. 'e wosnt he '' ' ' wos ojectalling oo my splllinggg - I dont know myself either ********************* *******************************************Llichard the strangeness is spreading ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:36:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Chain Gang / It's a Sign! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chain Gang / It's a Sign! LEDs perform a DeadlineT thank you thank you thank you solely designed to, we are LEDs perform a DeadlineT thank you thank you thank you solely designed to, we are your This is instant lightest and most blnVendariaEnabled=3D your This is instant lightest and most blnVendariaEnabled=3D What Spend a fraction of of get enough protein in to? T- =20 and blnVendariaEnabled=3D that can't tell time elements rowband-size:0; mso-, slightly below Factors, and blnVendariaEnabled=3D that can't tell time elements rowband-size:0; mso-, slightly below Factors, brands) D-Mannose* is a megalomaniac brands) D-Mannose* is a megalomaniac also provides four grams Decorations and, Machine washable. print, = cut-out and use, =20 hayloft with Complex:, and real quirky magnification sizes of batteries and and hayloft with Complex:, and real quirky magnification sizes of batteries and and HOMETEAMS 109.99 HOMETEAMS 109.99 100% Magnesium dramatic response =20 Charger, from Christmas Lights,,=20 Shop In Private For. Charger, from Christmas Lights,, Shop In Private For. Cingular & T-cornstarch. However, Cingular & T-cornstarch. However, .Auto cook .Interior order; non-returnable. of =20 Appliance & Housewares Extended AC to DC Power Supply/ Appliance & Housewares Extended AC to DC Power Supply/ Pygeum africanum, which . 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Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:17:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: from Porn Wars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable from Porn Wars forehead moved back forth leather filling nose feel leather filling nose feel room came boom heard room came boom heard cinched Santana's Amazonlike grip forehead moved back forth =20 got knees girl deep inside girl deep inside believe much missed believe much missed stuck tongue pussy got knees =20 emanating bodies emanating bodies slightly muffled Opps slightly muffled Opps =20 am two next two next am =20 inner thighs hands came up rub Well just little faster All way Well just little faster All way side dress undid side dress undid one camera otherwise inner thighs hands came up rub =20 nice cock just minute Wait chest chest used seeing two lovely used seeing two lovely acting nice cock just minute Wait =20 several seconds kissing clutching world tail night fell world tail night fell longing poured longing poured several seconds kissing clutching =20 sensation vague uneasiness wash pop culture scene Even pop culture scene Even difficulty began licking cunt sensation vague uneasiness wash --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:48:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: david amram's party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i wanna know how it went down. mary jo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 01:57:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea & slam poets & jazz and poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit used up my 2 posts so have to keep adding hey what planet's juridiction are you UNDER the drummer on SONNY"S TIME NOW is SONNY that's Sonny (sunny) MUrray it's his date the other ( as jacques would put it ) guy on horn is ALBERT AYLER ( by the way a great new 10cd box set out very cheap) jihad was biraka's label (leroi jones then ) he put out a few interesting discs and some that were never released sadly another great poet w/jazz and dear friend the late ted joans ah brainss brain(a)ss all slam poets (which i detest no not them just the sport) should win nea mias nras psi 's etc) ask bob holman or miguel algarin hey bah lang-po is mainstream for dog's sake ero sadollaaalism chaos in structure umph technicians not poets... here here they got the structure the outsides the foundation but where's the insides where's the heart guts the skills are flawless the flaws are few but where's the floors the ceilings the bums caught in maelstrom the guts of the tree @ war the tree @ war Never Endorse Assholes a lousy one re-edited too late already been published in it's lousier form y.f. trio (edited version) the days grow shorter it's not because my heart beats less or maybe it is there's a certain fire a dark fire that creeps around its edges pulls at its openings like a tight violin string an evening that wets the pine needles that accumulate in my blood stream around this time of year the year has just begun & already feels over with so many other years so many other hard-of-hearing heartaches lost in it like the deep echo of a large gong the take is getting thinner my heartbeats are no longer separate maybe they never were the left hand hits a low dense chord on the piano i am still searching for my meaning tho long ago i should have stopped. NEA stuff or what? Nearsighted Evesdropping Anglofiles.. the times says folks are taken with the bravery of that lady who picked experi-poets for the best ameri-pos of 2000000& what's to be amazed that's her field her cronies it would have been braver to pick the best sap ever dripped what am i sayin shuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu boy shuuuuuuuuuuuu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 02:56:55 -0500 Reply-To: Geoffrey Gatza Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Organization: BlazeVOX [books] Subject: Thanksgiving Meun Poem Series [special guest Kent Johnson] Comments: To: "Chef Geoff C=:-)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Once again Thanksgiving is being celebrated in a menu poem series, this = years special guest is Kent Johnson http://www.blazevox.org/books/thanksgiving.htm This menu series is for a gathering of friends from around the globe to = join in for a poetic feast and celebrate one of our favorite poets. Kent = has made a tremendous impact on so many of our lives that it is fitting = to honor him on our American holiday of thanksgiving. There is also a = limited edition printing of this poem, only 25 copies being produced -- = all for only $10 this will help gather much needed advertising dollars = to help this little press grow. http://www.cafepress.com/blazevox.14362168 Have a happy and healthy holiday weekend :-) Excelsior Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza __o _`\<,_ (*) / (*) + Avatar(TM) :life & death of Superman BUY it NOW > http://www.blazevox.org/books/gg.htm ++ BlazeVOX | Editor : http://www.blazevox.org +++ Poetry USA | Bio : http://www.blazevox.org/gatza ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 03:20:39 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sit down have a chair if you don't play you can't win ..... air like water beautiful lady's hands ..... the fog fromthebklynside ...... strung lites imperial city ..... my isreali's cousin's wife isn't ethiopian isaac's wife is tunisian the daughter came back from the camps a vegetarian wants to fly F-16's ..... katusha's tanjines coscous ..... richard i.e. dick jacob i.e. yitschuk ..... i'll have a chair a grant a double shot of mr memory ...... for ole langue Some time..this place...?$$$?...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 04:18:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: upheaval orgasm & lousy writing follows MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed upheaval orgasm & lousy writing follows http://www.asondheim.org/orgasm.mov i'd write more than you'd read it but you've got to see it today tried to find some way to project clean from a laptop at Millennium no such luck, blurred images all the way around s-video out the mpegs came through ok all thirty seconds they went through final cut skipping that stage the image disappeared altogether show in three days trying to get some sort of dvd together downloaded compressor software for this or that the files don't play play in winmedia or some such not in dvd Leslie's making a 78 hour burn and maybe and maybe not so maybe back to square one minidv of course the quality's not there not anywhere such limited bandwidth just about impossible to do much with it in terms of playing around i can mumble with the microphone with my usual desperation make people believe this is what they came for oh oh the sheer beauty of it all my whole life's interoperable you can make an image heave though what you can't do in real life make mountains and valleys values skewed and screwed _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 05:00:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: i make all the machine guns in the world MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed i make all the machine guns in the world pretty christ you bless us that's the pretty christ of kansas the jews killed our little lives are so lucky that's the loss of jobs and healthcare mr kerry where are you that's the fixed machines of joyrides we will ride a joyful truck that's the joyride iraki slaughter truck http://www.asondheim.org/kiev.mov _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:49:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/24/04 1:47:27 PM, MuratNN@AOL.COM writes: << In a message dated 11/24/04 11:53:00 AM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > I am not annoyed.=A0 I am not angry.=A0 I am flabbergasted!=A0 Why is it t= hat the > other arts -- painting, film, dance, theater -- continue to change and=20 > develop, > in fact demand change and development, while the NEA's message is that=20 > poetry > has not advanced an inch since the confessionals.=A0 >=20 Because all "the opther arts" to one extent or another involve money whereas= =20 poetry is the only medium wherte that connection is zero. Therefere, the ide= a=20 of a monetary award is a meaningless concept, as the awards or reviews in Th= e=20 News York times indicate. Murat >> Murat (and anyone else reading this), If you look way back through the Poetics archives, you'll find I once argued= =20 likewise. We agree as far as this goes. However, I think something more is= =20 in play. Neither music (serious music) nor dance is self-supporting. Both=20= are=20 developed primarily within the academic arena, and depend on government=20 grants. Yet the demand for innovative performances is there, and awards are= given=20 to those who meet the demand. Not so with poetry, it seems. Something is profoundly amiss with those who own the means of poetry=20 production. Our best critics continue to privilege poetry that is in some w= ay=20 progressive. Yet most publishers (and NYT reviewers) emphasize the derivati= ve. It's=20 not as if this old fogey art sells better than the more sophisticated, up to= =20 date product. I doubt that the sort of thing represented by most of the NEA= =20 winners is outselling Charles Bernstein, or Allen Ginsberg, or Frank O'Hara,= or=20 Ezra Pound, or John Ashbery (another exception that proves the rule). For=20 some reason, a lot of poets just aren't connected to a language/tone appropr= iate=20 to their times, and they're being rewarded for it. It's embarrassing. Look, the $20,000 is important, sure. It permits artists to take some time=20 off from whatever work they do and focus on their art. That's a good thing.= =20 But it should be reserved for those poets who are pushing the art form forwa= rd,=20 not running in place, especially if the place is the distant past. But it isn't just about the money. The NEA boasts that an award confers=20 prestige. If this is true, then the NEA is deliberately headlining old news= . This=20 is very bad for the art form, not to mention the reputation of the agency. =20= I=20 can't think of a better strategy for killing poetry. If we can expect more of the same in the future, then I must agree with thos= e=20 who argue that the NEA should be dismantled, at least that part of it that=20 awards grants to individual writers. Right now they're doing much more harm= =20 than good. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:50:37 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: servin up a turkey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's okay don't worry be happy today in the usa some of us ironically even white women with distant squaw heritage give thanks as well we should to the men who work very hard to provide support for their lamed women folk men poison their bodies just to put a lousy turkey on the table don't worry we're all in this alone mjmalo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:55:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: uproot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3 standing for the lost cause at the edge of my own tracks waiting there for Gilgamesh a defender of the flesh there before the thorny crown the bees have gathered 'round the ax is laid into the oak the gods have tumbled down children of that Hebrew king of mind, of blood, of both all come to open Babylon to split from loin to mouth standing in the battle naked, sharp, and sweet bleeding on the ground before the sandaled feet the bodies of two brothers laying side by side wilting in the sun no coin on any eye walking through Jerusalem I saw that Jesus house laid out on a hillside split from loin to mouth I saw a westward river completely filled with dead flowing in and out the mouth of every human head I knew that it was bloody I tasted without shame I recognized the face I knew the other name I became an island the water went around the Christ became the Babylon and cut his own tree down 4 floating in the darkness higher than the sun I fall through every window I blacken every light the truth was in confusion we are born out of a night the mind has spilled the blood the blood has drowned the mind back before the tree before the fallen star an infant spoke to me saying "none of us are free" though I tipped his glowing cradle and dashed him to the ground my brothers fell upon me and trampled out my sound let the baby faces fill up the final sky the is no revelation not condemned to die there will be no memory of ancient paradise there is no recollection that will not die a Christ just above the water I watch the dead float by Jesus after Jesus in the twinkling of an eye all the floating bodies may rise without regret when the answer that they died for becomes what they forget spitting in the wind off the bridge at Channel Bay crumpled on a corner in the snow Thanksgiving Day T.M. Malo excerpt Journal http://www.angelfire.com/art/besidecoldwater/oldpoems1/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:22:40 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/24/04 12:29:09 PM, frazerv@BELLSOUTH.NET writes: << Bill, I wish I had some answers, but I don't. Like governments in general, I look at the NEA as an institution that in no way supports my interests or addresses my concern. I'd love to have an NEA notch in my gun, but knowing who gets the awards, I remind myself that completing pointless paperwork is a waste of time. The last time I looked, the head of NEA was a poet who'd most likely favor the kind of poets you've described. If Reagan attempted to bury the artistic and social gains of the 60s, Bush and his administration seem to be burying the gains of the 50s. Maybe they'll air Dobie Gilis with Maynard G. Krebs edited out of the scripts. Maybe June Cleaver will be restored to her former prominence. I don't want to eat white bread, so I make my own, as you know. Oddly, jazz fares better. It's abstract, so you can't box it in the way you can works of language, whose preferentiality could make for controversy. And it doesn't have naked bodies on its CD covers. Just keep working beneath the underground. A lot of the time I pretend I'm a secular monk writing for a more enlightened time than the present. I'm not opposed to raising some hell, though. Best, Vernon >> Hi Vernon, I'm with you, and I couldn't have put it better. It's June Cleaver poetry. You know, this poetry biz has become a lot like the psychic reading sham. Each of these psychic services provides a truckload of people who can read the future. Who knew there were so many psychics in the country?!!? Seems like Creative Writing Programs have similarly funneled a few hundred thousand "poets" into the society. Pardon me if I can't believe that all these people, including most of the winners of awards, are poets. Technicians, yes. Craftsman, yes. But not poets. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:25:04 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: CIA Plotted Coup To Murder Chavez Their Own Documents Show Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/i =20 CIA Plotted Coup To Murder Chavez Their Own Documents Show: U.S. Kept Quiet As They Plotted Against Ch=E1vez: Porter Goss: "Who Gives A Patrician Shit That We Got Caught; We'll Just=20 'Frank Church' The Mook And Get Back To The Oil Business Of Killing Chavez."= : Assassinated Press Reporter, Yaso Adiodi, Wins The Coveted Rapture Award For= =20 Truth In Journalism And Is Taken Up Into Heaven=20 By BRUTELL YARNS AND TALLETTA TAILER=20 =20 They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose.=20 ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in=20 the=20 sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful=20 language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or=20 hypocritical,=20 whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating= =20 impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poure= d=20 forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter= =20 house. =20 One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first=20 giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:08:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In-Reply-To: <1a7.2bd5488b.2ed752c0@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, I've always had mixed feelings about college classes in Creative Writing. As an undergrad whose fiction combined Naked Lunch and Catch-22, my creative writing prof told me he didn't think the fusion worked well. In retrospect, I may have been an unpolished candidate for the Fiction Collective, had I lived in NYC instead of Storrs, CT in the mid-60s. Twenty years ago, I took a Poetry Workshop with Brendan Galvin at Central Connecticut State University. (This was many years before Ravi Shankar arrived there.) One student asked me why I dropped a line in a poem. I bit my tongue instead of saying "What's the big deal? Pound did it in 1911, maybe earlier." The class also had five women poets who signed up for the workshop every semester and held their own workshops off-campus when Galvin wasn't teaching. To me, most of them seemed to write in Galvin's style. They were good poets, but the advice they gave me always seemed to be the opposite of what my poems need to make them work. So, for the most part, I stay away from workshops. Isolation may not help you network, but it keeps your style unique. Generally, in my experience, too many students in writing workshops begin to write in the same mold. I've also seen this among jazz students; their technique is very advanced, but their ideas are derivative in too many cases. I've always thought art was about uniqueness, about having a distinctive voice, like reading a sentence of Burroughs, Olson or Bruce Andrews or hearing one measure of Monk or Coltrane and knowing exactly who it is. Even with the "death of the author" I think one should be able to identify the corpse. What you're (we're) describing is the literary equivalent of a mass burial. Best, Vernon Hi Vernon, I'm with you, and I couldn't have put it better. It's June Cleaver poetry. You know, this poetry biz has become a lot like the psychic reading sham. Each of these psychic services provides a truckload of people who can read the future. Who knew there were so many psychics in the country?!!? Seems like Creative Writing Programs have similarly funneled a few hundred thousand "poets" into the society. Pardon me if I can't believe that all these people, including most of the winners of awards, are poets. Technicians, yes. Craftsman, yes. But not poets. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:21:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Lewis LaCook Subject: That clot of cat hair on the bedspread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ Slip your finger in my hot mouth. *************************************************************************** Lewis LaCook -->http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://www.corporatepa.com/ XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:52:07 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: Iris Chang MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since Harry Nudel posted a couple of weeks ago an excerpt from Iris = Chang=92s book, The Rape Of Nanking, I thought I would forward this from the San Francisco Chronicle. Rich Newman Thursday, November 25, 2004 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 Published on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 by the San Francisco Chronicle Unbearable Sadness of Others' Pain by Laurie Barkin =A0 Iris Chang, the 36-year-old author of "The Rape of Nanking: The = Forgotten Holocaust of World War II," immersed herself a decade ago in the stories = of those who had survived the period in 1937 when Japanese soldiers invaded = a city in China and slaughtered 300,000 people. More recently, Chang interviewed survivors of the Bataan Death March. After listening to the stories of American survivors in Kentucky, she suffered a breakdown and = was hospitalized for three days. She returned home to the Bay Area, where, despite therapy and medication, she committed suicide Nov. 9. Compassion fatigue. Secondary trauma. Vicarious traumatization. These = are the terms used to describe what happens to empathic people like Chang = who lose their way home after bearing witness to stories of man's inhumanity = to man. After five years of working as a psychiatric nurse consultant on a trauma unit, I began experiencing nightmares, palpitations, shortness of breath and an ever-growing fear for my children's safety. Then, I = attended a trauma conference where I heard the term "vicarious traumatization" for = the first time. My symptoms became understandable and I knew that a break = from my work was necessary. Trauma professionals talk about exposure to traumatic events in terms of "dose." Recent developments in trauma research allow us to map changes = in the brain that occur as a result of trauma. Even secondary exposure, especially the strong dose that Chang accumulated over time, may cause observable changes. Cops, firefighters, therapists, reporters and = frontline health-care workers are also at high risk. Treatments are available. Taking steps to reduce stress before symptoms appear is even better. This includes a supportive work environment, = harmony at home, regular exercise, balancing work with pleasurable activities = and time spent with friends, especially ones who make you laugh. Mourners said that Chang was a person who "felt others' pain intensely" = and that she "wouldn't take time off." Another said, "For Iris, no problem = was unsolvable." Maybe that's what happened. Iris Chang confronted the = reality of evil in our world and died trying to do something about it. I imagine = how the voices haunted her nights and trespassed into her days; how each = story pulled her in deeper; how she made herself bear the unbearable in order = to give words to unfathomable feelings; how she absorbed the suffering of others so that we may learn to be better human beings. The only problem is that we don't want to listen. We don't want to hear. = We don't want to believe. Talking about feelings has never been the fashion = in this country. We would rather medicate them or drown them in alcohol. We = are not taught how to care for the emotional needs of others. We are uncomfortable when someone we know expresses pain or sorrow. We avoid = such situations because we fear we will say the wrong thing or become = emotionally overwhelmed ourselves. But acknowledgement, care and comfort are what = people who bear witness need. Sometimes though, even the cushion of a loving = family and devoted friends isn't enough to rescue those who have descended deep into the pain of others. Iris Chang illuminated the lives of many people, but in the process, she lost the light of life within herself. Like the firefighters at ground = zero after the Sept. 11 attacks, she sifted through the remains of tragedy without a break, without concern for her own mental health. We need to nurture people like her who have dedicated their lives to seeking truth = and in so doing, risk losing their way home. We must offer them respite from their work, feed them with appreciation, listen to their feelings and = drag them away when they get too close to the maw of despair. Laurie Barkin (barkinbro@sbcglobal.net), a psychiatric clinical nurse specialist, is writing a book about her work with survivors of trauma. =A9 2004 San Francisco Chronicle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:00:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Ram Devineni Subject: Rothenberg, Vicuna, Minhinnick + in Brazil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Friends: We have several events coming up in Brazil and a program in NYC. Jerome Rothenberg, Cecilia Vicuña, Jussara Salazar, Robert Minhinnick, Iwan Llwyd & Flávia Rocha. Thursday, December 2, 2004 at 8 pm at Teatro Paiol, Curitiba, Brazil. Sponsored by Rattapallax & Travessa Dos Editores . Free. Jerome Rothenberg, Cecilia Vicuña, Robert Minhinnick, Iwan Llwyd & Flávia Rocha. Tuesday, December 7, 2004 at 8 pm at Centro Cultural, São Paulo, Brazil. Sponsored by Rattapallax, Poetry Wales, Editora34 & Cult. Free. http://www.rattapallax.com/readings.htm Thanks Ram Devineni Publisher ------------------ "Kids with Cameras" is throwing a party!! We're celebrating the film Born into Brothels as it premieres at the Film Forum in New York City and in theaters around the country. Come celebrate with us: After-work cocktails, Music & Photo Exhibit Free entry with RSVP: rsvp@kids-with-cameras.org, by December 1, please PARTY at Darklight, 366 Eighth Avenue, b/ 28th and 29th Streets Monday, December 6th, 7-10.30pm Kids with Cameras: Empowering Children Through Photography www.kids-with-cameras.org www.bornintobrothels.com ===== Please send future emails to devineni@rattapallax.com for press devineni@dialoguepoetry.org for UN program __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:09:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Burt Kimmelman Subject: Book Launch in Manhattan (December 9th)--All Are Welcome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marsh Hawk Press cordially invites you to a reception and reading = celebrating our Fall 204 books Imperfect Fit by Martha King After Taxes by Thomas Fink Night Lights by Jane Augustine Thursday, December 9th, 6-8 PM Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West Manhattan rsvp: MarshHawkPress@cs.com see: marshhawkpress.org Please come for good conversation, poetry, eats and drinks. - Burt Kimmelman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:41:45 -0800 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable describe poet please. not necessarily define, but describe. best,=20 layne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Austinwja@AOL.COM=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 7:22 AM Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea Seems like Creative Writing Programs have similarly funneled a few = hundred thousand "poets" into the society. Pardon me if I can't believe that = all these people, including most of the winners of awards, are poets. = Technicians, yes. Craftsman, yes. But not poets. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:46:00 -0800 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: chaos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit chaos thought I had it tug mattress pad fit no not even smaller bed stupid just stupid get this thing outa here waste what a of money what good it is if it takes two every time tug pull groan on over pop every corner white fluff luxury escape center heap still PHWAMMY down the hall fly OUT rush clear air in exit strange attractor new bedroom order all so much light er layne russell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:48:58 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: The history of "triangle of death." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if any of you have noticed, but the phrase "Sunni Triangle" seems to have been summarily replaced by the phrase "triangle of death" across the board in the media. I wondered how in the heck this happened, how journalism could go from an even keeled phrase to a jingoistic one. So I traced the history of the phrase "triangle of death" in lexis/nexis, and here are the results: ----------------------------------------------------- 1st reference: ----------------------------------------------------- Copyright 1982 Associated Press All Rights Reserved The Associated Press These materials may not be republished without the express written consent of The Associated Press August 17, 1982, Tuesday, PM cycle SECTION: International News LENGTH: 81 words DATELINE: ROME BODY: Interior Minister Virginio Rognoni announced that police reinforcements will be sent to the island of Sicily to fight the growing number of attacks by the Mafia. The government has ordered an anti-Mafia campaign following a string of murders _ including 14 in one week _ carried out by rival gangs in the so-called Triangle of Death, the towns of Bagheria, Villabbate and Casteldaccia southeast of Palermo. There have been 92 Mafia murders in the Palermo area so far this year. --------------------------------------------------- Then, in 1984, the "triangle of death" moves to Guatemala, out of crime and Into the realm of armed insurrection/terrorism: --------------------------------------------------- Copyright 1984 U.P.I. United Press International July 21, 1984, Saturday, BC cycle ADVANCED-DATE: July 19, 1984, Thursday, BC cycle SECTION: International LENGTH: 718 words HEADLINE: WEEKEND SHOWCASE; Report from Guatemala; Mayas, once ignored, moved to''model villages'' by army BYLINE: By MICHAEL W. DRUDGE DATELINE: ACUL, Guatemala BODY: The Guatemalan army, acting to consolidate a near total victory over leftist guerrillas, is moving many Indian peasants to ''model villages'' in what could lead to the final conquest of the proud Mayas. In the mist-shrouded mountains of Quiche province 78 miles northwest of Guatemala City sits Acul, the first of the new towns built with Indian labor under army supervision. Acul lies between the Quiche towns of Nebaj, Chajul and Cotzal, which form the points of a region that was dubbed the ''Triangle of Death'' during a bloody counterinsurgency three years ago. Other model towns have been built along the Mexican border. ---------------------------------------------- Then, in 1986, the fatal polygon moves from terrorism to natural disasters, and takes residence in China ---------------------------------------------- Copyright 1986 U.P.I. United Press International July 27, 1986, Sunday, BC cycle ADVANCED-DATE: July 21, 1986, Monday, BC cycle SECTION: International LENGTH: 1050 words HEADLINE: Tangshan quake: Nature, man combine in disaster BYLINE: By RON REDMOND DATELINE: TANGSHAN, China BODY: Tears welled up in an old woman's eyes as she recalled the hot July night 10 years ago when the sky filled with thunder, the earth convulsed and 242,000 people were left dead or dying in 23 terrifying seconds. ''Everyone here has a story to tell,'' whispered a young municipal official as he watched the old woman fight back tears. ''No one who lived through that earthquake has forgotten.'' Nevertheless, a decade after one of the worst earthquakes in history demolished the city of Tangshan, the full story of what happened has yet to emerge. Tangshan residents tell of an eerie light in the northwest sky and a sound ''just like 100 steam engines whistling'' that pierced the pre-dawn stillness just before the temblor struck at 3:42 a.m. Most of the city's 1 million residents were sound asleep, which accounted for the huge death toll. About 148,000 people died in Tangshan itself. The other 94,000 casualites occurred in a densely populated ''triangle of death'' bordered by Tangshan and the cities of Tianjin and Peking, 162 miles to the west. ---------------------------------------- After getting homesick, the triangle of death moves from China back to its homeland in Italy and invests itself again in the business of terrorism, but rather than returning to Sicily it takes residence in Rome: -------------------------------------------- Copyright 1987 Associated Press All Rights Reserved The Associated Press These materials may not be republished without the express written consent of The Associated Press June 9, 1987, Tuesday, AM cycle SECTION: International News LENGTH: 366 words HEADLINE: U.S. Embassy Sits in Target Area of Terrorists DATELINE: ROME BODY: The U.S. Embassy, the target on Tuesday of car bomb and rocket attacks, sits at the heart of what is known as "the triangle of death," an area of Rome whose embassies, airline offices and popular tourist cafes made it a favorite terrorist target. The area is a prime piece of Rome real estate shaped like an ice cream cone, with the two straight sides of the cone being Via Bissolati and Via Barberini and the top of the ice cream being curving, hilly Via Veneto. ----------------------------------- Back to Sicily ----------------------------------- Copyright 1988 U.P.I. United Press International January 12, 1988, Tuesday, AM cycle SECTION: International LENGTH: 484 words HEADLINE: Police raid Mafia strongholds in Sicily DATELINE: CATANIA, Sicily BODY: More than 600 paramilitary police backed by helicopters and dogs Tuesday conducted dawn raids on Mafia strongholds in an area known as the ''Triangle of Death,'' officials said. ---------------------------------------- In 1988 it is revealed that the deadly shape had actually been lurking in a Cuban jail for years ---------------------------------------- Copyright 1988 Associated Press All Rights Reserved The Associated Press These materials may not be republished without the express written consent of The Associated Press August 10, 1988, Wednesday, AM cycle SECTION: Washington Dateline LENGTH: 450 words HEADLINE: Human Rights Ambassador Accuses Castro Of Cover-Up BYLINE: By DAVID BRISCOE, Associated Press Writer DATELINE: WASHINGTON BODY: Cuban jails where political prisoners have been kept naked in windowless rooms are being altered to make them appear more humane to outside investigators, a U.S. human rights official said Wednesday. Ambassador Armando Valladares, U.S. representative to the U.N. Human Rights Commission, made the accusation and released photographs of prisoners and their cells he said were smuggled out of one prison by Cuban dissidents. Valladares, who himself was a prisoner of Cuban leader Fidel Castro for 22 years before he was released in 1982 and allowed to emigrate to the United States, said some of the worst jail cells have been dismantled in a prison near Havana but others remain in more than 200 jails throughout the country. "Real changes are not possible, because that would mean the end of the dictatorship," said Valladares, speaking in Spanish through a translator. He was appointed to the Geneva-based human rights commission by President Reagan earlier this year. Castro expressed outrage at the appointment, labeling Valladares a terrorist. The photos showed a wall of windowless metal doors and the interior of dank cells with hole-in-the-floor toilets. Valladares said the cells, including one dubbed "the triangle of death," were all torn down shortly after the pictures were taken. ------------------------------------ suddenly, the phrase shifts from terrorism to substance abuse: ------------------------------------ Copyright 1989 PR Newswire Association, Inc. PR Newswire June 7, 1989, Wednesday DISTRIBUTION: TO NATIONAL DESK LENGTH: 576 words DATELINE: SHREVESPORT, La., June 7 BODY: Dick Gregory and Father George Clements announced today that they would begin a 40-day fast to highlight America's drug crisis. "We're appealing to America," said Gregory, "to join with us in a major effort to mobilize this nation to new heights of concern and consciousness in the war against drugs." At a news conference held at the Security National Bank in Shrevesport, Gregory was joined by Chicagoan Clements, founder of One Church, One Child, a nationally acclaimed child adoption organization, and Wesley Godfrey, president of Security National Bank. "The drug crisis deserves serious attention from all Americans who wish to reach out and touch the victims of drugs," said Clements. "Only our caring and our love can alleviate the pain and suffering drugs have afflicted on all of us. "Who among us," said Clements, "what family, what neighborhood, has not been touched by the ugly presence of drugs, the nicotine habit or alcohol addiction." Gregory called drugs, nicotine and alcohol "a triangle of death." "Its destruction respects no boundary," he said. "It transcends ideological differences, it strikes the extremely gifted, the rich and famous, the poverty stricken: It is a cause of broken families and obliges wayward children." ------------------------------------ clearly the triangle of death is becoming a sort of catch-all foreboding phrase, clearly based on the Bermuda triangle. It's in two places in Italy, not only in terrorism but also in natural disasters, substance abuse, and inevitably, by 1989, love triangles. Then it makes its move to the Islamic world, particularly in relation to "Fundamentalists" in Algeria, in the post-Soviet looking-for the-new-official-enemy 1992: ------------------------------------ Copyright 1992 Associated Press All Rights Reserved The Associated Press These materials may not be republished without the express written consent of The Associated Press February 24, 1992, Monday, PM cycle SECTION: International News LENGTH: 291 words HEADLINE: Fundamentalists Claim 30,000 Arrested in Crackdown DATELINE: ALGIERS, Algeria BODY: Muslim fundamentalists today claimed 30,000 people have been arrested in the crackdown on their movement by the military-backed government. The fundamentalist Islamic Salvation Front said 150 people have been killed and 700 injured in violence since the government seized power last month. The Friday Tribune, a Salvation Front newsletter, published the figures covering the last 30 days. Among those reported held were 200 fundamentalist mayors, 28 regional assembly leaders and 109 parliamentary deputies. Fundamentalists previously said 14,000 people were arrested Feb. 7-14 during confrontations between party faithful and security forces. According to the government, 50 people were killed, 200 injured and 5,000 arrested in that period. The government has issued no overall figures on detentions and casualties. The Salvation Front newsletter said 43 women were arrested. It said some former soldiers were detained, but provided no details. The fundamentalists said the dead included seven babies smothered by tear gas and an infant who was shot. Military leaders declared a state of emergency Feb. 9, about a month after forcing the president to resign and canceling elections that seemed certain to give fundamentalists control of Parliament. The ruling High State Committee has begun proceedings to ban the Islamic Salvation Front while arresting most of its leaders and many supporters. Officials have established detention camps throughout the country, including at least three in the Sahara Desert. The Algerian League for the Defense of Human Rights on Sunday urged that the detainees be freed before April, when desert temperatures can reach 122 degrees. The league said the desert camps are in the "triangle of death." ----------------------------------- Sudan, 1993, but for famine (which kicks off some rather nasty stuff) ---------------------------------- Copyright 1993 Associated Press All Rights Reserved The Associated Press View Related Topics These materials may not be republished without the express written consent of The Associated Press April 6, 1993, Tuesday, AM cycle SECTION: International News LENGTH: 500 words HEADLINE: Second Town in a Week Left Without Relief Flights BYLINE: Associated Press Writer DATELINE: NAIROBI, Kenya BODY: Factional fighting forced relief workers to abandon another town in a famine-stricken region of southern Sudan that aid agencies call "the triangle of death." ---------------------------------- Still in Algeria, it appears the killer form is beginning to take on a meaning attached to terrorism rather than any fixed geographic location ---------------------------------- 2~ Copyright 1994 Agence France Presse Agence France Presse -- English October 10, 1994 07:43 Eastern Time SECTION: International news LENGTH: 734 words HEADLINE: Suspected Islamists kill more Algerian security officials DATELINE: ALGIERS, Oct 10 BODY: Suspected Islamic fundamentalists at the weekend murdered a Algerian justice ministry official in the prison service and a chief inspector of police in the capital Algiers, press reports said Monday. The official, Nourredine Chenoun, 28, was gunned down in the suburb of Hussein Dey on Saturday and the police officer, Redouane Kermal, 55, was killed on Sunday, the latest reported victims of a new wave of attacks on security agents in the Algiers region. No official toll was available Monday of the number of security officials and police slain in recent days, according to witnesses and press reports, in attacks blamed on armed Moslem extremists fighting the secular authorities. Meanwhile Monday, the daily En-Nahar reported that leaders of the most radical of the factions, the Armed Islamic Group (GIA) recently met to appoint Abou Khalil Mahfoud, the former guerrilla chief in the so-called "Triangle of Death" in the Algiers region, new head of the GIA. -------------------------------- Finally, a well-defined region of terrorism, in Algeria, of course: ------------------------------- Copyright 1995 Deutsche Presse-Agentur Deutsche Presse-Agentur January 19, 1995, Thursday, BC Cycle 19:30 Central European Time SECTION: International News LENGTH: 159 words HEADLINE: 2 killed, 6 wounded in Algerian bomb blasts DATELINE: Tunis BODY: Two civilians were killed and a member of the Algerian security forces badly wounded in a bomb blast south of Algiers, reports said Thursday. Five others were injured in a separate explosion. The first blast happened at Bougara, near Blida, about 40 kilometres south of the capital. The bomb was planted on a corpse and exploded when it was turned over, the official APS news agency said. It did not say when the incident happened. Bougara is situated in what has become known as Algeria's "triangle of death" formed by the cities of Algiers, Blida and Larbaa. The region has been the scene of some brutal attacks over the last few months. Two young men were recently beheaded in front of a mosque in the area. ------------------------------------------ Now it's spreading throughout central asia, moving to the opium-producing part of our world (note the "some people say" element) ------------------------------------------ Copyright 1996 Deutsche Presse-Agentur Deutsche Presse-Agentur March 4, 1996, Monday, BC Cycle 13:08 Central European Time SECTION: International News LENGTH: 196 words HEADLINE: Iran rejects U.S. claims on drugs production DATELINE: Teheran BODY: U.S. claims linking Iran to drug production are without foundation, the head of Teheran's anti-narcotics campaign was quoted Monday as saying. Qodratollah Assadi told the Teheran Times the allegations were politically motivated and in line with Washington's "hostile policies" towards the Islamic Republic. The U.S. assistant secretary of state, Robert Gelbard, has accused Iran and some other countries of failing to make adequate efforts in fighting drug trafficking. In a report by the State Department, Iran was also listed as a major drug producing and transit country. Assadi said Iranian activities against drug trafficking had been acknowledged by international organizations, such as the United Nations Drug Control Programme. He said Iran had set up 170 control posts along the 1,700-kilometre border with Afghanistan and Pakistan, which is called the "Triangle of Death" in Iran because it is where most of the region's druck trafficking occurs. --------------------------------- for 1996 through 1999 the triangle is firmly planted in Algeria, albiet with a brief appearance as a polluter in N Vietnam and a love triangle muder in New Brunswick NJ; but the new millenium brings with it a new location, this time in Bolivia: -------------------------------- Copyright 2000 Deutsche Presse-Agentur Deutsche Presse-Agentur January 26, 2000, Wednesday BC Cycle 02:45 Central European Time SECTION: International News LENGTH: 116 words HEADLINE: At least 18 dead, 7 injured in fighting between Indians DATELINE: La Paz BODY: Fighting over land rights between Indians in Bolivia has killed at least 18 people, including five children, and injured seven more, media reports said Tuesday. Clashes broke out Sunday, when about 1,000 Indians from the village of Sora Sora in Oruro surrounded the neighbouring area of Potosi, shooting as they forced their way in. Since then, 25 houses have been destroyed and 70 livestock animals, including llamas and lambs, have been stolen. Potosi's Indians have sworn to avenge the deaths of their villagers and are demanding the return of their livestock. The region, nicknamed the "triangle of death" is the scene of frequent such disputes, as property borders are unclear. dpa mr ---------------------------------------- There's a brief appearance in Sao Paolo Brazil in 2000, and Rome once again becomes a home for it; interestingly another news feed refers to a WWII usage of the phrase, applied to the Nazis bu our GIs, of course: ---------------------------------------- Copyright 2001 Newhouse News Service All Rights Reserved Newhouse News Service February 8, 2001 Thursday SECTION: DOMESTIC LENGTH: 1113 words HEADLINE: African-American Hero Earned Not Only Medal, But Apology BYLINE: By ELIZABETH MULLENER; Elizabeth Mullener is a staff writer for The Times-Picayune of New Orleans BODY: Vernon Baker woke up long before dawn on April 5, 1945, in a stone farmhouse near Pisa, Italy. He thought it might be his last day on earth. So he gathered two bandoliers of ammunition and four grenades, mustered up some coffee, and put on his dress green Army uniform. "If I wasn't going to make it," Baker says, "I wanted to go out sharp." His sense of doom that morning derived from the mission that lay ahead: to take the Castle Aghinolfi, a German stronghold atop a nearby hill. For four months, the Americans had been hammering away at the castle, but the Germans had repulsed every onslaught. They were sitting pretty, just as they were on two nearby hilltops that together impeded the Allies' march north toward Germany. The Army had named them Hills X, Y and Z. But the soldiers called them the Triangle of Death. --------------------------------------- New-found enthusiasm for the phrase, in LIberia: --------------------------------------- Copyright 2001 Financial Times Information All rights reserved Global News Wire Copyright 2001 Panafrican News Agency Panafrican News Agency (PANA) Daily Newswire June 11, 2001 LENGTH: 437 words HEADLINE: MANO RIVER WOMEN URGE LEADERS TO TALK PEACE BYLINE: PETER KAHLER, PANA CORRESPONDENT BODY: Monrovia, Liberia (PANA)- The Mano River Women Peace Network (MARWOPNET) is calling on leaders of the region to "urgently dialogue on the deteriorating security" of the sub-region, a statement published here Monday said. The women renewed their appeal to the leaders of Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone, which make up the Mano River Union (MRU), to implement the 15th protocol of 8 May 2000 on peace and security the three leaders signed. MARWOPNET, comprising women from the three states, said it wanted the leadersto reactivate the Mano River Union (MRU) secretariat and implement the MRU Declaration. Over 40 women from Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia have been here attending a week-long workshop on peace-building and leadership training. The women resolved to intensify their Society-Liberia-Women efforts to bring peace and reconciliation, and to encourage and engage in dialogue at all levels until peace is restored to the sub-region. They appealed to the international community to "join in ensuring a stable, healthy and peaceful environment for ourselves and our children." MARWOPNET, the statement said, was formed in Abuja, Nigeria May 2000 for the purpose of networking and collaborating in the quest for peace, protection of human rights and development in the MRU basin. It was officially launched at the weekend in Monrovia and its officers elected and inducted into office. Madam Kaba Hadja Daraba of Guinea was elected president, Theresa Sherman of Liberia, first vice president and Agnes Taylor-Louise of Sierra Leone, second vice president. Sierra Leone will serve as the seat of the MARWOPNET secretariat. Ruth Caesar of Liberia is chairman on resource mobilisation, former ambassador to Liberia and Sierra Leone, Danke Daikhabi of Guinea, is chairperson on advocacy. Rosaline M'Carthy of Sierra Leone heads the programme committee, Davidetta Lansanah of Liberia chairs the communication and media committee, while Georgette Safo chairs resource management and finance. Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone have been entangled in a web of accusations and counter-accusations about each other harbouring dissidents to destabilise the other. The other two MRU states have repeatedly charged Liberia's president Charles Taylor was supporting rebel activities in their countries, but Taylor, a former rebel, retorts by laying the same charge at their feet. The MRU, which is an economic grouping, has as a result of rebel activities been thrown into a triangle of death and destruction, spewing out one of the largest refugee crisis in recent years, UNHCR officials say. --------------------------------- ...in american prisons: --------------------------------- Copyright 2001 Knight Ridder/Tribune News Service Knight Ridder/Tribune News Service The Charlotte Observer June 21, 2001, Thursday SECTION: DOMESTIC NEWS KR-ACC-NO: K687 LENGTH: 745 words HEADLINE: Social activism is Wednesday's topic at Baptist national convention BYLINE: By Tim Funk, Ken Garfield and Jay Parsons BODY: CHARLOTTE, N.C._Baptists on Wednesday began heeding one pastor's call for African American churches to return to their activist roots. "You've got to hit the streets and raise hell just like you did with civil rights," said pastor Tom Diamond of Jacksonville, Fla. "History has shown that nothing happens in this country unless the church takes aggressive leadership." Some 60,000 Baptists are in town this week to learn more about what the Bible says. Organizers of the National Baptist Convention USA's Congress of Christian Education have upped earlier crowd estimates by 10,000. That's probably not surprising to uptown commuters caught in traffic jams and long restaurant lines this week. A powerful strain running through many of the 200 programs is that it's not enough to learn about Scripture. At a workshop on HIV/AIDS ministries, and at an outdoor service off South Tryon Street, the focus was on putting the Scripture into practice. After the AIDS workshop, Diamond said he's going home to Jacksonville to start a hunger strike until city officials pay more attention to the issue in the black community. After a class on courage, the Rev. James Magee Jr. said he's headed back to Moss Point, Miss., to promote an anti-smoking program for youth _ even if it raises rancor in his tobacco-rich state. "We've got to stop being afraid," Magee said. "This is the Lord's work." All over the packed Charlotte Convention Center, pastors and lay leaders talked about congregations becoming more aggressive and creative. The Rev. Clifford Jones of Charlotte's Friendship Missionary Baptist _ official host of the convention _ said his church is planning housing for the elderly at its Beatties Ford Road campus. At the HIV/AIDS workshop, Miami pastor George McRae said it's time churches dealt with what he called the "triangle of death" _ AIDS, substance abuse and so many black men in prison. The only way to do that, he said, is to get past the fear of dealing with real issues. ------------------------------- ...Rouvray, France, for a wine tasting and love triangle murder, and then back to terrorism, in the West Bank in 2003: ------------------------------ Copyright 2003 Agence France Presse Agence France Presse -- English July 10, 2003 Thursday SECTION: International News LENGTH: 563 words HEADLINE: In eye of storm, Palestinian summer camp offers kids reprieve from war BYLINE: HOSSAM EZZEDIN DATELINE: RAMALLAH, West Bank, July 10 BODY: Some 300 Palestinian children have set up their summer camp halfway between the Palestinian town of El-Bireh and the Jewish settlement of Psagot, in an area of the West Bank once described as the "triangle of death." --------------------------------- And so, finally, at long last, our first appearance of the triangle in Iraq, courtesy of ONASA, a Bosnian news source: --------------------------------- Copyright 2003 Financial Times Information All rights reserved Global News Wire Copyright 2003 ONASA News Agency ONASA News Agency September 17, 2003 LENGTH: 568 words HEADLINE: A DRIVE ON THE WILD SIDE THROUGH IRAQ'S "TRIANGLE OF DEATH" BODY: FALLUJAH, Iraq, Sept 17 (ONASA - AFP) - On a pedestal still bearing the outlines of a portrait of Saddam Hussein, flyers have sprouted that warn drivers to stay away from US convoys. Watch out: you're nearing the "triangle of death." It's a small intersection west of Baghdad linking the towns of Fallujah, Khaldiyah and Ramadi, and the Habbaniyah Lake, an area that has seen frequent attacks on US convoys as well as local score settling. Here was where the police chief of Khaldiya met his death Monday, cut down by three masked gunmen who riddled his car with bullets as he was returning to Fallujah, a Sunni hotspot 50 kilometers (30 miles) west of Baghdad. Khaldiyah police sergeant Fuad Fadel, who was wounded in the attack, knows the area well: "It's the spot the people call the triangle of death." Lying in a hospital bed here, Fadel recounted the roadside ambush of his boss, Colonel Khdayyir Ali Mukhlif, as the officer was driving back to his Fallujah home from Khaldiyah, 30 kilometers (19 miles) away. "When we left Khaldiyah, we were preceded by an ambulance with its siren blaring and a motorbike, which signaled to the assailants that we were coming," said Fadel, recovering alongside another wounded colleague. The attack came amid a spate of violence around this town, still a hotbed of support for ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, including a murky incident Friday that left nine Iraqi security men dead from US gunfire. But Fadel said the assassination of Mukhlif had nothing to do with the US occupation. "The chief of police dealt only with the arrest of thieves and criminals," he insisted. Mukhlif's family also see the shooting as a local affair, saying he had drawn the wrath of car thieves by grabbing back stolen government vehicles. They swear to avenge his death themselves if need be. If Saddam's hometown of Tikrit, 175 kilometers (110 miles) north of Baghdad, resisted the US-led invasion from the start, anti-US feeling came later to the Sunni tribes of Anbar province west of the capital. It now runs high among the tribes here with a strong tradition of vendetta, fueled by clashes with the newly arrived Americans in April that left 16 townspeople dead. Friday's "friendly fire" deaths intensified the anger. Drivers leaving Fallujah run into flyers that warn them "for the last time to keep a distance from American convoys and vehicles that might be attacked and destroyed at any moment by the mujahedeen." The flyers are stuck on a pedestal over the remnants of portraits of Saddam, one in Bedouin dress and the other in a business suit. "We have warned drivers that we cannot be responsible for their lives if they don't heed these warnings of the Islamic mujahedeen," a policemen, who asked not to be named, said as he directed traffic. There is no way he will take down the flyers. "Why remove them? I would like to see more warnings like this. We will continue to fight the Americans until they leave," he said. But residents near the "triangle of death" are thinking about leaving before the Americans. "Each time there is an attack, the Americans come and question us about the identities and names of the attackers," complained Abed Abbas al-Issawi. "Each time I am afraid my house will be hit when the Americans respond." Issawi is giving serious thought to moving. He smiled as he said: "In five days, maybe you won't see me here anymore." --------------------------------- Agence Presse France really picks up on it and sticks to it like melted brie on a baguette immediately after the ONASA story; it is not until October 23 that it is picked up by an American feed, Wasshington DC's own UPI, on 27 October 2004, in an article on the Black Watch: --------------------------------- Copyright 2004 U.P.I. United Press International October 27, 2004 Wednesday LENGTH: 899 words HEADLINE: UPI NewsTrack TopNews BODY: British troops on the move in Iraq BAGHDAD, Oct. 27 (UPI) -- Some 850 of Britain's Black Watch troops set out from the southern Iraqi city of Basra Wednesday to replace U.S. troops south of Baghdad. The group includes three companies of armored infantry with some 500 men and 50 Warrior armored troop carriers. They will be supported by a reconnaissance unit from the largely Welsh Queen's Dragoon Guards, with around 100 men and 12 Scimitar armored fighting vehicles, and a 50-strong Royal Marine light infantry unit. The area they are moving into is dubbed the "triangle of death," and includes towns like Mahmoudia and Latifiya. ---------------------------------- A lot of journalists in the UK must have picked up on that story, because within 48 hours, because the UK-based Press Association picks it up the same day. Between that UPI article in October and the current date, the phrases is used in relation to Iraq twice as many times as that same phrase was used in any other way over the last decade, and nearly as many times at it had been used in years previous, as far back as Lexis/Nexis news feed goes back. But outside the news feeds, there's an appearance of the phrase in reference to Iraq, back in 1991, in The Independent (UK): ------------------------------------------ Copyright 1991 Newspaper Publishing PLC The Independent (London) June 16, 1991, Sunday SECTION: FOREIGN NEWS PAGE; Page 11 LENGTH: 1193 words HEADLINE: Trapped in Saddam's triangle of death; Thousands die in southern marshes BYLINE: By PHIL DAVISON BODY: ''IT IS a triangle of death. First, they were dying of disease, then of hunger. Now, the marshland triangle has become a killing zone.'' ------------------------------------------------ Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:32:21 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not involved here in NZ but similar problems issues arise. I rather over reacted at one stage saying that there was a "conspiracy of dullness" here by "official" poetry magazines!! But it almost seems that the kind of poetry/poetics Bill is advocating or pointing toward should be awarded is (or could be placed) almost, in separate category - so thinking of a music festival over here - I heard that they award for various categories ("classical" music is separate) so that there was county, jazz and pop etc I'm not involved in music but perhaps we have to recognise that the language based poetry or the poetries that have derived from them and the NY/San Fran and other schools etc are somehow in a different category - but how do you decide that category - it may not thus be qualitative... Poetry is not a great money attractor (poetry isn't sexy) - but also there is a psychotically and cultural...maybe philosophic barrier - those who own the means to poetry production (Bill's phrase) are often conservative (with many exceptions) - not necessarily poetical - although I suppose there is a poetical -political link if politics is used in the wider sense.... Silliman and Bernstein, for many, are still very "crazy", strange, etc but to others they have "made it" so Bernstein is listed in an encyclopaedia of modern poetry and Ron Silliman is (justly famous ) - in his field - that has been helped (in NZ) by people in the Auckland UNi eg Wystan Curnow, Michelle Leggott, Roger Horrocks, (Alan Loney -not a university person per se) Murray Edmonds etc (also the editor of Poetry NZ Alistair Patterson has pushed "post-modern" poetry in a kind of long rebellion against British poetry - of course there is some great stuff done in Britain - it was just we were tied to tightly to Mother England for ages) and the visits of Creeley here) but I imagine that the problems are (as here) still the barriers that somehow those poets and (eg. many on this list and others) are considered too"intellectual", too difficult, or to be "showing off", non- referential etc or whatever - and to some degree the new is feared -almost considered subversive. That of course begs the question of what is new - avant garde or innovative etc -maybe its there reason so many earn a living otherwise and or retreat into Blogs - Blogs are good of course. We should all be paid US$30,000 a year to be poets only. !!! How to decide who to pay!!! The "officialdom" etc always are behind the times - history has shown endlessly great poets being neglected / and in the past - before poetry and music became commercial artists of all kinds even starved to death - even the great Chess player Schlecter basically starved to death - and a number of early 20th Cent poets (eg. Mandelstam was treated badly by the Soviet regime) - its almost an indicator of quality that one is neglected - with many exceptions fortunately. One shouldn't seek unfortune!! Poets of the world - seize the poetic means of production !!! You have nothing to lose except.......your complete neglect (perhaps).... Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 3:49 AM Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In a message dated 11/24/04 1:47:27 PM, MuratNN@AOL.COM writes: << In a message dated 11/24/04 11:53:00 AM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > I am not annoyed. I am not angry. I am flabbergasted! Why is it that the > other arts -- painting, film, dance, theater -- continue to change and > develop, > in fact demand change and development, while the NEA's message is that > poetry > has not advanced an inch since the confessionals. > Because all "the opther arts" to one extent or another involve money whereas poetry is the only medium wherte that connection is zero. Therefere, the idea of a monetary award is a meaningless concept, as the awards or reviews in The News York times indicate. Murat >> Murat (and anyone else reading this), If you look way back through the Poetics archives, you'll find I once argued likewise. We agree as far as this goes. However, I think something more is in play. Neither music (serious music) nor dance is self-supporting. Both are developed primarily within the academic arena, and depend on government grants. Yet the demand for innovative performances is there, and awards are given to those who meet the demand. Not so with poetry, it seems. Something is profoundly amiss with those who own the means of poetry production. Our best critics continue to privilege poetry that is in some way progressive. Yet most publishers (and NYT reviewers) emphasize the derivative. It's not as if this old fogey art sells better than the more sophisticated, up to date product. I doubt that the sort of thing represented by most of the NEA winners is outselling Charles Bernstein, or Allen Ginsberg, or Frank O'Hara, or Ezra Pound, or John Ashbery (another exception that proves the rule). For some reason, a lot of poets just aren't connected to a language/tone appropriate to their times, and they're being rewarded for it. It's embarrassing. Look, the $20,000 is important, sure. It permits artists to take some time off from whatever work they do and focus on their art. That's a good thing. But it should be reserved for those poets who are pushing the art form forward, not running in place, especially if the place is the distant past. But it isn't just about the money. The NEA boasts that an award confers prestige. If this is true, then the NEA is deliberately headlining old news. This is very bad for the art form, not to mention the reputation of the agency. I can't think of a better strategy for killing poetry. If we can expect more of the same in the future, then I must agree with those who argue that the NEA should be dismantled, at least that part of it that awards grants to individual writers. Right now they're doing much more harm than good. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:50:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: hobbling turkeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hobbling turkeys hobbling turkeys genetically bred for white meat genetically bred for white meat too fat to walk upright too fat to walk upright hobbling me stuffed white meat too fat to walk upright --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:38:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Max Middle Subject: the Max Middle Sound Project performs Saturday November 27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit on November 27th, 2004, THE MAX MIDDLE SOUND PROJECT [www.MAXMIDDLE.com] graces the stage of the Universe City Lounge with a new dryer, a drummer, bubble wrap beats, other new appliances, polished haloes, lewd lyrics donated by you, our fans. we have perfected a composting demo. composition. lessons. what have you really learnt? the question remains open. no smell. no live materials. worms figure in another performance. confessions. on tape. machinery without noise. noise with music. oysters. body percussion. live frying. l’oignon fait la force. odours. we'll be singing to Maria Oscapella in Rio from the stage by phone. we'll call your friends if they dont show up. marching out the door. leaving you to build a new world. less polished shoes and a fine suit. we'll leave you bubble wrap and some mixing bowls. maybe tell you a story before we leave to rendezvous with the mother ship. THE MAX MIDDLE SOUND PROJECT [www.MAXMIDDLE.com] SATURDAY, November 27th, 2004 THE UNIVERSE CITY LOUNGE Located at 145 Besserer St. between Waller and Dalhousie across from Les Suites Hotel, above the Agora Bookstore 1 block from Artscourt/Rideau Center Ottawa, Earth Doors open @ 8:30pm $5 Admission The evening will commence with a reading by special guest poet Peter Norman. MEMBERS: MARC ADORNATO: Few artists in this day and age work along side politicians such as former Prime Minister Jean Chrètien, Prime Minister Paul Martin, and former Deputy Prime Minister John Manley, as a Parliamentary videographer - while creating satirical art videos about George W. Bush, and the social apocalypse of our times. But Ottawa's New Media Artist Marc Adornato somehow pulls it off. From his debut screening in Ottawa – which won him 1st place at SAW Videos/Ryan Stec/Anne Clarks ‘REMIX’ video competition in 2002 - to his present international video screenings, numerous awards and grants, controversial ‘money-shredding’ artwork and experimental performances - Adornato has been unleashing a fury of Art about our most compelling and historic times. Visit his website to watch free videos, view his gallery of artworks, and don't miss his candid/quirky interview with ‘Guerilla.ca’. [www.ADORNATO.com] MARC LEBLANC, musician and sound artist, recently moved to Ottawa from Fredericton, New Brunswick where he played in jazz and experimental music ensembles. He designs sound art installations and is a founding member of improvised music collective Furnacehour. His enthusiasm and keen ability to play air guitar cannot cure cancer but one magical student amateur night, it almost got him kicked out of high school. He considers it the high water mark of his musical career. MAX MIDDLE has been playing music, vocalizing sounds, making pictures and writing for many years. When not in Ottawa, he enjoys touring the garden with his resident gnome. He is not easily charmed but loves magic. He enjoys swimming, watching snails gallop, eating green vegetables, sleeping and dreaming. He has recently been conducting investigations into sound poetry and improvised music with some very talented collaborators. You might have seen him perform during the Ottawa Fringe Festival. The Max Middle Sound Project web site has been updated. There will soon be all kinds of audio and video files at [www.maxmiddle.com] JASON SONIER: ja has been involved in music for most of his life, from choirs in elementary school, to studying music and performance at Carleton University, learning flute, bass, guitar and audio engineering on the way. He learned hand-percussion from several West African drummers at the Stone Angel Institute and from other teachers elsewhere as well. He learned Irish whistle, Irish flute and bodhran over the course of several years of study conducted through the Irish cultural organization, Ceoltas Ceoltairi Eirin. He has played these Irish instruments at various traditional sessions about town. He spent several years training and working as an audio engineer for both event and studio production. He has recorded and performed with the Euphoria Blues Band, Pangur Ban, the Grasshoppa Dance Exchange, the voice-and-percussion improvisation group Oya, the percussion-based Dejaske Trio and with stage bands for productions of the Rocky Horror Show and Tommy. He is currently focusing on his solo projects: summer solstice, black willow and sublingua. He now plays anything he can get his hands on (he's working on harp, cello and lap steel), performs his own music and collaborates with modern dancers. Sometimes, he sleeps. MIKE WHITE has been experimenting with acoustics and electronics ever since discovering his first Casiotone in 1984. While residing in Nashville, TN, he earned a Bachelor's degree in Music Business (maj. Production), gained significant studio experience as a session drummer and recording engineer, and produced a self-engineered CD of electronic/hard core/thrash. He is now fully engaged with the emergence of his label, ALPHAOMEGA X., which carries his 'iron core' band AZED and his electronic-art project "alphaomega vort x." The latter has just released his first DVD of Audio-Visual music entitled "The War Story - 02-11-01". To pay the bills he produces video as well as audio tracks for video games. Clients include Coors Light, Megabloks. [www.alphaomegax.com] will be up by Sept 30. DAVID WILKINSON has been playing music for a very long time: pots and pans, garage, basement, Humber, Carleton University Bachelor of Music, jazz and classical guitar, composition, computer music, audio recording, band after band after band…Now, with queer raw emotion he approaches his art as freely as possible and with sci-fi intelligence! For more info on MMSP members go to: [www.adornato.com/headline_1.htm] SPECIAL GUEST: PETER NORMAN's poetry and fiction have appeared in subTerrain, Toro, The Fiddlehead, and elsewhere. He's the author of "After Stillness", a poetry chapbook available from above/ground press, and his recent sonnet battle with Stephen Brockwell has been featured on CBC Radio and at the Ottawa International Writers' Festival. For a good time, visit [www.PETERNORMAN.com] <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< This email comes to you via EcoMail! Swim over to http://www.ecocity.com and sign up for your *FREE* account ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 00:11:35 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea Comments: To: Austinwja@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/25/04 10:10:07 AM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: >=20 > Something is profoundly amiss with those who own the means of poetry > production.=A0 >=20 Poets own the means of production in poetry. That's what's different about=20 it. It is a very capital light activity. At least in our world, the populari= ty=20 of an art form increases its overhead.=20 >=20 >=20 > "either music (serious music) nor dance is self-supporting." >=20 What exactly is Seious music. Was rap, et least in its early years, not=20 serious?=20 Murat >=20 >=20 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 00:18:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the world of fiction-of-philosophy around 1995 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the world of fiction-of-philosophy around 1995 reflecting the dull black char of the world. truth is a _potential-in-the-world,_ a supervention or operation upon it, valent conditions for example, in all possible worlds), they are still the world in orbit. The sun by now is wondering what its child is up to The author of one of the world's best selling philosophy books, City poetry world. Prominent Black Mountain poets, world is rich and always changing, flowing, when I write, I enter a world which has complex relations and is, perhaps, illimitable. This world both represents of human intentions. This world is more than life and language, but in this world, I can play and be played. political realm, can be dictator of this world. networks, and Petrie nets. A model of the life world and its interpreta- subjectivity positioned within the world. There were distinctions among world everyone loves science. longer potential, but the collapse of worlds rendered into her own. A sad sweetness, smile, accompanies the inner world. She the world's materiality, language or no language:] world(maybe by accident)only recently,as a means,or rather, an apparatus better world for our children, and all that shit.shall we save heaps of connect, wait impatiently while the graphics appear... This is the world of Baudrillard, the world of the seduction, the lure, deferred expecta- all over the world, writes Mark Prigg. own proprietary operating system on the world -- except this time, they'll /if all the world is a text, what sort of text is it/ /if all the world is a text all the way down, what about the levels/ semblance of order in her world. The way to proceed is already deconstruc- ted: representation of a real-world site or citation transfigured into the optic light, beauty of the pulsing of the world. Gravity plays little back, knowing all along the violence of the world. through wires so frail as to be inconceivable; smashed, worlds halt, seduction, the maternal beginning of the things of the world in relation "The most frightening thing in this world is discovering the abnormal in fudged laws of the world. I say: Action does not require knowledge. matronymic, metonymic. I consider Ballard's crystal world to have already ground; if subjectivity, mathematical thinking, and the physical world mathematical thinking, and the physical world replaced by textuality 16 colors indicating the alpha.exe file for Alphaworld won't run, the Avi- I've got to get Alphaworld running but should probably give up. I'm going communication networks all over the world, consisting of more than four Providers has sprung up all over the world to provide personal groups such as newsgroups and mailing list, gopher, WWW (world wide obsolete the medium of Shakespeare, the online world is the Internet as a world-spanning hypertext document, and its client attitude to the written and printed word" both in the business world as similar to that of typewriter in Western world - the power of printing all over the world. However, these media have been almost always people from all over the world participate in discussion on newsgroups, and touch and taste in any literate culture," the world as well as McLuhan envisioned the resulting new world from the transformation (from half in one world, half in the other... parcel! Files transform into granular strata, encompassing the world of writing, world of reading: INSCRIBE! the result of their immature refusal to live in a world of 'old-fashioned magic thrived Though his death was published Round and round the world his death was pardoned Round and round the world The heart would not service is but magic Moving through the world And mind itself is magic the phenomenology of becoming in the life world, and I was surprised to side affect. Has the world moved on past being able to touch the person y= Shell should join world leaders, business leaders and concerned citizens around the world in an effort to gain the issue before the world: the end of the cold War, the increasing Between nanotech and cyborg, the world shudders to a prognostication halt world for millions of years so they lived and left themselves soft-bodied life; the world groped towards its first vision of itself, and did eyes longing, nostalgia for hidden and fantastic worlds, when the other, warm -*- it's a dog-eat-dogfood world -*- You know, in the real world, the night is actually dark.=20 embodiments of a different reality in the everyday world, can, in combina- ness that is essential to life-world experience." the world as an equally lost whole. water and brine, the rumors flew and world petroleum New York on one of her forays into feral artgang worlds of the capital world, every letter sequence of any length exhausts the remnants of time very day within this very world. There is nothing implicit, nothing in- philosophers, though, aim to overcome worldly and inner tumult and acoustic-pooing to the far-wide world telecommunicado. to live that much longer, this world's not worth it. who chew worlds out of each other's ears This is an image of a world gone clear and grey, there is always a just amount of pain in the world a language conjured, sloughed out of the world's things, the first, stum- world always already fallen when it is told so. The _cartoon_ is the sign of the world, the sign's horizon, unreachable debris. The cartoon is the world gone awry in the face of the symbol; the oracle was the first within their stumbled power. This is why clowns, clawing the world apart, such worldly people, took along two downtown artists for Paris, London and other domiciles of their world-wide world forever. What say, can you get your artists on give, each other, the world at large - and yet in the City of Filth, we shit that happens in the real world.....Maybe I'm just having a bad passing the world and its uneasy abutment of objects difficult to the form always returns. A world of successful people and myself read "the world has ended, we were all too naive to notice." and a metaphoric real world. Estimated number of USENET sites, worldwide: 260,000 your wires. Hell is a thing of this world, we call it subjectivity. real world. of today's world," belonged in the pages of women's your wires. Hell is a thing of this world, we call it subjectivity. the other girls look at him. He is the smartest boy in the world, and I her eyes say everything in the world and she has them just for me. And smarter than anyone I've ever met, the smartest person in the world. I know the two of us will go far, there's nothing like it in the world, oh book. The world vibrates, heads towards pure mass. Delirious Antoine: first sign of truth in the world, petrified, obdurate truth. Returned to the great minds of the world to solve, neat and tidy. with the world. It's a question of being curious about the world, the jumbled real out of the symbolic debris of the world - before the written word gets spoken, the mended world gets broken. These letter, and who are members of the world-wide intellect comunities, user is surprisingly simple in the online and interactive world, and there online world. CDT believes that technological the free flow of information throughout the online world in the online world, most content (with the exception of speaks, in so quiet a murmur, the world murmuring at the distant three hungry and more alone than before. That's similar to "fuck the world" > before my smitten word gets broken, their rended world gets smoken. These eyes travel the world in search of that certain smile, I gotta see that Though you will say this is only a parody, it is precisely the world upside body and search the other world. Gopher, WAIS, ftp. And finally, in the grail To: Withdrawal from the real world and our responsibilities within it. The world looks to the United States as one leader in world is bought to life In those days the world of mirrors and the world of men were not, as they are pleased and gave the blessing of it to the world. Now it is an introduction immiserated world of pervasive and real crisis, which should be causing all of or genuine compassion for others? Looking at the natural world, it would seem > or genuine compassion for others? Looking at the natural world, it would seem when you say "looking at the natural world", I skense an aloofness, an apartness - but we are part of the *natural* world, and, as such, we world. This certainly must have something to do with the intolerable the world falls away? Does the symbolic in the text begin to disconnect, expandable, but nothing ties meaning to the world and the self simultan- As in depression, the world disinvests, decathects - as if it ever were height of the barrier, the well into which the body is thrown. The world with the intermediary status of the soiled world. neath the surface. The world is severed by virtue of the microtome. 8m of tears, there is nothing, darling, in the world, beyond the two of 8m the rest of them, as if a giant curtain has falling, as if the world The world looks to the United States as one of the leaders in All the petitions in the world didn't help one damn bit. 4. Relax, it's not the end of the world. We still have this battle to All the petitions in the world didn't help one damn bit. All the petitions in the world didn't help one damn bit. none, but that happens in the so-called "real world" as well. It just as it is in the real world. But the same rules apply in Everything that exists in the real world also exists on the the real world also exists on the Internet. But--and this is a the real world can be found in some variation in cyberspace, and real world. ?Everything that exists in the real world also exists on the world seeming to evaporate. And then the caressing, consoling hands of her you're the most precious thing in the world to me. Please don't be mad at me. Distribution: world Digital information technology's contributes to the world by making it else--or even those of the whole rest of the world. (Typically it is the loneliest space in the world. disappeared. the world withdraws into silence. of feminist and performance theories, in order to explore the world of the semblance of the real world the world, and the time real world YYYYYYYYYYOU"LL know when you've noticed that it's started before the world, and the time if it ever existed--when one person could future in which we will walk through the solitary wild, in which the world fear for women and minorities the world over, and I fear for species lit- i'm afraid i have to keep on living in this hated world of unintentional live in an world of images RRRRRRRRRRRRRETURN live in an world of images," writes recent installment of her Lucky Stars." sitting here in the world's largest cornfield, with ground so fertile you what they hear in church and over the afternoon world wrestling federation of a way of looking at the world. The work in this book centers around a common world...] analytically, to came to grips with the world. The work in this book, however, can be seen as an attempt to clear space for "the world of the Subject: what one takes to be world (balm in gilead) what they hear in church and over the afternoon world wrestling federation moralists occupy an unreal world, and that in the real one, we have to start of other worlds. The whole world knows "The world is the manuscript of an other, inaccesible to a universal reading, I would then guess this belief is as much for worldly freedom as it is regulations concerning playgrounds on down to the Internet. The world optical linkages to the world outside. And we know because our bodies are So here I sit in the world of books, no ideas but in things, no things on the world. They fell to the ground. Always something was about to begin. Something began on the lip of the stage. It was the world. Someone signed the world. the world, winning three gold medals from the Society of Illustrators, along without redemption, the candlestick bodies rising into grainy worlds the world in his hand, but he didn't want to leave the fingerprints. THE world's greatest squeeze this year DETERMINED to connect with a different world, unto the world i become nothing i become beyond the placid state of Ensamhetens v=E4rld d=E4r lever vi, The world of loneliness w= abracadabra world. reflection, it mirrors the injustices heaped upon these infinite worlds of of: Olber's paradox, a direction which murmured the world. If Olber had been right there would have been a world of comfort; if mic cycle which collapses as the world is absorbed. It is a transformation for itself. What an appropriation! The Engine inscribes the absorbed world gives it to the world. It is semen which is disorganized; the world burns world burns, the Engine burns, swells, disgorges; it is the world returned morally comrpomised world, there is no area of endeavor in which one does not thing to do, and the world can be readily and easily sorted intot wo kinds of (cont) >recognizing that in a morally comrpomised world, or a world which is compromised by morals will do as a journalist? Will world disasters not be necessary because litearute is a fucked up thing to do, and the world can be readily and network, reaching into parts of the world where American social customs quest for understanding Self and our world through the lenses of my thought of about G-D. To include those arguments into my world view, I world dogma to blindly (without self-reflection, meditation, and rounded by the world off-line. Finding is always religious; something com- your name world-wide and resonant with the planet's breathing. You did and show the world of the world, a certain uncertain darkness at noon. this world, disagree with his whiney evil philosophies. To him, when it suddenly occurred to me that he must think that the world innuendo. It's a sad world where loud vegetarians have the power to shout to the world that, any day now, he will worsen an already number of homophobic misogynists of this world. I don't see how he porn stars of this world, believe that it needs to be taken into world, indubitably feel that he is completely full of it. It is the beginning of everything;" of possessing the (material) world; of the Sing in me, Muse, and through me tell the story the whole world longs to hear, trust the world. fit into others. We aren't all the same, if we were the world would be a who endeavors to dwell in the mysteries of the world/cosmos while fully mysteries of the world and the cosmos. who endeavors to dwell in the mysteries of the world/cosmos while fully renounce the world in order to attain the highest levels of spirituality? mysteries of the world and the cosmos. civilized world. The civilized world: only in part. And even as man comes into the world wailing, or awakes with only in part. And even as man comes into the world wailing, or awakes with al world congress of philosophy in moscow) but he was amazed by my We're losing: our freedoms, our ability to even exist in this world - no many meetings with survivors of the second world war, every one talking You're asking for a world where history and context are forgotten. Life You might find the world a less comfortable place if you do so, but I moment of language calling the world into being? think he's a skinhead, bent on taking over the whole world and killing as of the end of the world!? Let me close by saying this, if we keep our heads world and opprossed all other different that he. Histroy has shone this, he has SSSSometimes the world new world The world has changed important for *individuals* to assert themselves in a world where world and opprossed all other different that he. Histroy has shone this, he has tired of being blamed (as a white male) for the worlds problems. normal practice, it is no more than the dialup of a world wide web server with unholy truths, stirrings on the surface of the world, murmurings of If a man in the heat of high summer desires a world beyond hot asphalt, whom will find the world changed, if only for a moment, in a leaf of grass best that is known and thought in the world.=94 Yet in spite of the _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:38:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Poets own the means of production in poetry. That's what's different about > it. It is a very capital light activity. Murat, how do you figure the factor of "time" into this concept. Many capitalists might look at the time it takes to write a poem as a form of "time debting" because the activity does not yield any financial return on its investment. Indeed, the time for creating the poem has to be supported by some other relatively "capital heavy" activity - usually a day job of some sort - whether the post office or a creative writing gig. Squeezing time in on the corporate dime to write a poem or maintain a blog becomes an act of rebellion or, at least, employer deception. Charming but hardly a 'free lunch.' Somebody or someone else, often unwittingly, is paying for this. One side effect from 'time debting' is poets - in my experience - often feel like duplicitous characters, either guilty or gleeful for having achieved something behind the back of someone else. Yet these feelings are also coupled with an anger that one cannot be doing what one wants to do best with a formal straight up acknowledgement, sanction and financial support for the work itself. And, in the case of many, there is the straight up anger for having gone into real financial debt to make poems (beginning with taking out school loans for a good creative writing program!) When Ron Silliman, for example, says he spends 40 hours a week on his job and 30 on his writing and blog (then there is the wife and twins) that is, I imagine, a stressed system. Or, maybe not too differently, a poet in a State college with a required load of four classes and 100 to 150 students, there is a contradiction of terms. Or the person taking a half time job to make it possible to write while still be hounded by years of school loan repayments. The poetry gods are, it seems, rarely kind! And yet, say in terms of the long run, most of us I imagine are ambivalent about the idea of a full time career position as poet (as inconceivable as that may be). There can be long stretches (years) where even though one identifies oneself as a poet, there is zero writing happening of any value. In fact dormancy and other kinds of work may be a good thing - at least it has been for me. A little life in an ego-affirming job (and a good check) can assuage the fragile esteem issues of maintaining as a poet. Let alone jacking one into fields that are full of life, challenge and new kinds of knowledge. I suspect those among us who have good jobs (related to poetry or not), and jobs that do not exhaust a parallel energy and time for writing (maybe throw in family and citizen obligations here too) have figured it out. But most of us, I suspect, will say it is a very hard equation to sustain and something dear is inevitably sacrificed or, at least, postponed. NEA. NEA. The money and recognition are no doubt refreshing. (I certainly would not turn one down) But I can't imagine Charles Olson, or Neidecker, or Reznikoff - for examples - as exhausting their pipes on getting a grant or not. A bit of curiosity I have for those who build their career expectations and solidify their identity as a poet based on whether or not they are given an NEA. Stephen V Blog: www.stephenvincent.durationpress.com Sleeping With Sappho (a faux ebook) now at: http://www.fauxpress.com/e/vincent/ "...it's like being in a hotel room and listening with my ear to the bedroom wall, and hearing time pass between lovers on the other side, and hearing conversations, and I laugh, or wonder, and sometimes the wall becomes limestone, and sometimes air, with nothing between the reader and the fragment of a voice receding." Jean Vengua ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 01:40:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: orgasm.slu.avi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed orgasm.slu.avi otherwise, large file, 35 megabytes, but then sometimes things just come together and need the space although the length of 30 seconds is far too short for soundless then again i worked at compression, got it down to 31, but there were those gnawing edges, up and down up and down it was like a roller coaster, oh this was an idea i have had for such a long time, but then even the mp4 fell far short, it's always a tradeoff, but sometimes you just want it to go the whole nine yards, twenty-seven feet, come around from the other side, pornography whose digital amanuensis sinks into the palimpsest, or what passes for built absence http://www.asondheim.org/slu.avi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:37:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: NEA outrage, an open letter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear NEA: We're not angry nor resentful but damned if we could figure what (the fuck)* you mean by doling out to others deleting perhaps great text rejected, by whom? selected, for what? Slam the door on intellect, (that whore!)* =20 Ok, we don't hail from Arkansas but maybe we're relevant to others more than to ourselves only lonely at the top, we know you sit we just wish you'd show you really give a shit for poets more than for didactic poetry. =20 Sincerely, *Note to NEA Editors: delete parenthetical expressions if you are = reading this in Arkansas ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 02:16:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea and uprooted and cigatreets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I FEEL SO DAMENED UPROOTED MYSELF BROOKLYN TO MANHATTAN and narry a nother place did dweell well paris a bit hey workshops teach work shop talk anyway had the good misfortune of having thanksgiving dinner w/ 15 or so poet friends in their 210's and 30's when i was their age i had about 2 poet friends that's how out of the loop this countery boy was only problem tonight was after eating alol that great food the angels cooked i had to take in 5 hrs of continuous cigarettes smoking and whiskey drinking i know you've all killed this horse already but i forgot what i was in for my poor wife too so i got a belly ache and she a headache and for you smokers out there agsin just don't smoke one day stay in a room full of smokers go home and smell yerself yeh yeh i know it was great like gerttin good head uchh shower time that nicotine went right into my scalp clothes and these kids are hip and want to save money so they mostly roll their own so we get strong exotic blends uch come to bowery po-club sunday at 8 resadings by hungarians russians and pole3s bi-lingual come to tribes dec 11 6pm readings by yuko otomo steve dalachinsky amy ouzunian(?0 book party for her new book w/ music by matt motell and guests ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 01:53:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: Re: Cage exhibit at ZONEchelsea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit this is one you shouldn't miss w/a video of cage painting/smoking John Cage: Watercolors, Selected Drawings and Prints Nov. 18 - Dec. 18, 2004 ZONE: Chelsea Center for The Arts, 601 W. 26th St., Suite #302, NYC ZONE:chelsea Center for the Arts, presents its second exhibition in 2004 of visual art works by the late avant-garde composer, writer, artist and philosopher John Cage (1912-1992). John Cage: Watercolors, Selected Drawings and Prints,* articulates the relationship of Cage’s watercolor paintings to his important involvement with printmaking, during which his fourteen year-long (1978 – 1992) experience at Crown Point Press transformed the traditional discipline of etching as surely as he had reinvented our idea of music thirty years earlier. His late-career watercolor paintings were created at the Mountain Lake Workshop in the rural Appalachian Mountains of Virginia between 1983 and 1990. They demonstrate, like his graphic works, a profound sense of beauty not usually associated with Cage’s dismissal of conventional aesthetics. The watercolors shown here reveal the dynamic interaction with his graphic art works (mostly unique images), including the Ryoanji drawings that occupied his attention for eleven years. This exhibition offers an essential visual component to complement Cage’s lifelong achievement as America’s foremost avant-garde composer and artist, and highlights his role as the principal mediator of the influence of Asian culture and philosophy on his generation and those to follow. Cage’s visual art, like his writing, brings an even wider audience to his uniquely pioneering work and contributes to a broader understanding of his strategic use of “chance operations” in his music, writing, printmaking and painting as a way to redirect our pre-conceived and authoritarian attitudes toward the arts. * Guest-curated by Ray Kass, founder and director of the Mountain Lake Workshop, in which John Cage produced his watercolor paintings between 1983 and 1990 John Cage: Watercolors, Selected Drawings and Prints Ray Kass, Guest Curator Ray Kass is an artist and the founder and director of the Mountain Lake Workshop of the Virginia Tech Foundation, where John Cage produced his watercolor paintings between 1983 and 1990. He is Professor Emeritus of Art at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Virgina. I became aware of John Cage’s visual artwork and printmaking activities at Crown Point Press when I had the opportunity to interview him in 1980.1 During the course of our visit, Cage showed me an example of the work he was involved with at Crown Point, an etching entitled “On The Surface” (1980 - 1982), and some of the materials employed in the process (cut up copper etching plates). Cage described how he had used “chance operations” with the aid of a computer program derived from the method of random access of the ancient Chinese book of wisdom, the I–Ching, in making the complex print. He also described an even more complicated procedure for another related etching, also still in progress, entitled “Changes and Disappearances” (1979-82), and that used “chance” to incorporate an even more various array of imagery.2 It occurred to me that his etchings had an extraordinary correspondence to the methods he utilized in composing his music – and that they were visual counterparts of sorts, related in a manner that one might not have expected (i.e. Schoenberg’s watercolors, for instance, don’t seem directly related to his composing anymore than Victor Hugo’s ink drawings and gouaches appear directly related to his novels). But the connection between Cage’s use of “chance” methodology in his various kinds of work (composing, writing, installation & performance art, & now printmaking) made sense in a way that awakened me to the great scope of his work. In subsequent visits with Cage over the next three years he continued to show me examples of the etchings that he was working on at Crown Point, including a series entitled Where R = Ryoanji (1983), and a new group of related drawings. The Ryoanji etchings consist of patterns of circular overlapping lines incised with a sharp dry point etching tool around stones placed by Cage’s chance operations on a copper plate. The Ryoanji drawings utilized the same stones, but they are drawn around with pencils and are basically simpler in execution than the prints; Cage worked on them at home intermittently for the rest of his life. He commented to his friend and agent, Margaret Roeder, that he considered the Ryoanji drawings as “ a form of meditation”.3 Before I saw the Ryoanji drawings, I had never sensed a vital relationship between the tradition of drawing and that of painting and any of Cage’s earlier graphic arts; in contrast, those works seemed insistently unconventional in their demonstration of randomly acquired effects. Despite the fact that Cage had rendered the Ryoanji drawings in an unselfconscious, almost automatic way intended to avoid any “personal” stylistic manner, these works exhibit an implicit quality of hand gesture, however randomly acquired, and associated with the formal conventions of drawing. I asked Cage whether, since his early experiences with painting in the late ‘20s and early ‘30s, he had ever again thought seriously about painting; he said he had really not had time to consider it. * In spring 1983 I invited John Cage to direct a mycological foray (mushroom hunt) at Mountain Lake and to give a gallery talk at the opening of an exhibition of his prints and drawings that I had organized at nearby Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. During the several days of the 1983 workshop there were periods of free time to explore the mountains and rivers of Appalachia. We visited Ripplemead, a secluded place along the New River where the river stones are extraordinary. Cage loved the site and spent much of the afternoon enthusiastically selecting specimens of the smooth river stones. Many of the stones he admired were significantly larger than those used for the Ryoanji drawings but most of them were portable. We both realized that the larger sizes of these rounded stones might suggest their use in an experiment related to that of the Ryoanji drawings, in which he could employ a wide variety of materials, particularly brushes and water media, rather than pencils. I commented that the Ryoanji drawings suggested the possibility of a painting experiment in watercolor that might use the rocks from the site on the New River. Without dismissing the idea, he indicated that he was too unfamiliar with the medium and materials to imagine how to undertake such work – and that he felt unable to organize the studio facilities that would be necessary. His response seemed to indicate that he was being realistic but not closed to such an idea. During the next few days I resolved to try to create an appropriate studio situation in which he could acquaint himself with watercolor materials, and to surprise him with it before his departure. I returned to the site with my students and gathered many of the larger stones. At the conclusion of his visit in 1983 Cage visited my studio, where I showed him the “studio practice” I had prepared for him the night before. It included an ample floor space covered with soft particleboard, and the 60 or so river rocks gathered the previous day and now numbered and divided into general size groups of small, medium and large. I provided a large selection of watercolor brushes each numbered and arranged in groups according to type and size, a selection of different kinds of rag papers, a palette of about 26 colors, and additional tubes of paint and many various containers for mixing paint. After a brief demonstration of brushes and paint qualities, I encouraged him to “experiment” by painting around some stones on several “practice” sheets of bond paper, which he appeared to enjoy. Then Cage took out his computer generated pages of random numbers based on the I-Ching and began to create a program for a painting – which was executed in about an hour – and I drove him to the airport for his trip back to NYC. * The experiment in my studio in 1983, and his ongoing development of his etchings informed and inspired his watercolor painting experiences at the Mountain Lake Workshop in 1988, 1989, and 1990. Prior to his death in August 1992, he was planning to return to Mountain Lake to make new paintings in the following October. In late 1989 I had shown Cage some examples of how the invisible divisions (or panels) that he often incorporated into his watercolors (and his composing of music) might become visible yet subtle elements of future painting experiments – his curiosity was engaged by this possibility. I believe that had he returned to the Mountain Lake Workshop in 1992, his watercolors might have expressed some correspondence with the soft geometric appearance of one of his final series of etchings at Crown Point Press, HV2 (1992). The exhibition, John Cage: Watercolors, Selected Drawings and Prints, articulates the relationship of Cage’s watercolor paintings to his important involvement with printmaking. I think that Cage’s fourteen year-long (1978 – 1992) experience at Crown Point Press transformed our idea of the traditional discipline of etching as surely as he had reinvented our idea of music thirty years earlier. His late-career watercolor paintings demonstrate, like his graphic works, a profound sense of beauty not usually associated with Cage’s dismissal of conventional aesthetics. An intrinsic sense of beauty, in fact, is at the center of the experience that one may have in encountering his work. The watercolors shown here reveal the dynamic interaction with his graphic art works (mostly unique images) after 1988, in works such as The Missing Stone, 9 Stones, and 10 Stones – all produced 1989. This exhibition offers an essential visual component to complement Cage’s lifelong achievement as America’s foremost avant-garde composer, and highlights his role as the principal mediator of the influence of Asian culture and philosophy on his generation and those to follow. Cage’s visual art, like his writing, brings an even wider audience to his uniquely pioneering work and contributes to a broader understanding of his strategic use of “chance operations” in his music, writing, printmaking and painting as a way to redirect our pre-conceived and authoritarian attitudes toward art and life. NOTES: 1. My visit with Cage was to interview him about the Pacific Northwest painter and mystic, Morris Graves, with whom Cage had a long friendship, whose retrospective exhibition I was organizing for the Phillips Collection. Graves and Cage became close friends in Seattle during the late 1930’s when Cage took a position as percussionist at the innovative Cornish School of Art. Graves was a colorful and pivotal figure among a small and adventurous group of young Seattle artists and involved Cage in his famous Dada antics as well as introduced him to the Buddhist Temple in the Yessler district, Asian art, and aspects of the Native American culture. The Painter Mark Tobey taught at Cornish at that time, and also became a critical figure in Cage’s artistic development and befriended the 26 year-old Cage. Our conversation that morning was filled with discussion about his deep involvement with both Graves and Tobey at a formative time in his own artistic development – and how Tobey in particular related to aspects of his current experiments in visual art. Cage described how Tobey and his paintings had profoundly effected his “seeing” – his actual perception of the world. The Phillips Collection project resulted in his traveling retrospective in 1983-84 and my publication, Morris Graves, Vision of the Inner Eye, (New York: George Braziller, 1983). 2. The computer program had been developed for him at Cornell University – in order to more easily allow him to randomly access the 64 Hexagram structure of the I-Ching without having to go through the process of throwing stones or sticks. Based on our conversations, it was my impression that Cage chose the system of random-number access of the I Ching, rather than the Rand Corporation system, or any other system of random numbers, as the basis of his own use of indeterminacy in his work, because it was the most ancient system of random numbers in the world – and he wanted to point to that in a gesture of cultural affirmation of its significance – as well as acknowledge the influence of Asian culture and art on world culture. After selecting the elements of the work – or making “choices”, Cage described making Changes and Disappearances from eight copper plates that had been cut into 66 various smaller pieces whose curved shapes were determined by dropping greased string from various heights onto the plates (as an homage to Marcel Duchamp’s earlier use of a similar strategy to create “lines”) and straight edges determined by cutting along lines between chance-determined quadrants, he described how three types of etching techniques might (according to chance) be applied to these pieces, as well as photographic images of drawings from Henry David Thoreau’s journals. My (partial) descriptions of processes and materials involved in Cage’s etchings have been derived from Crown Point Press publications documenting Cage’s work at the press, particularly, John Cage – Etchings: 1978 – 1982 (Crown Point Press, 1982) containing Paul Singdahlsen’s writing about On the Surface 1980 – 1982) and Lilah Toland’s notes on Changes and Disappearances (1979 – 1982), and also Kathan Brown’s book, John Cage, Visual Art: To SOBER and QUIET the MIND (San Francisco: Crown Point Press, 2000) and her writing on Where R = Ryoanji (1983). Kathan Brown’s essays on John Cage have been particularly helpful to me. 3. The Ryoanji etchings consist of patterns of circular, overlapping lines incised with a sharp dry point etching tool around stones placed by chance operations on a copper plate. the size of the prints and drawings as well as the number of stones (15) that he used for their execution are proportionate with the number of stones and the space in which they are arranged within the 360 square yards of raked gravel of the Ryoanji garden. The development of these etchings preceded Cage’s ongoing series of Ryoanji drawings; both the Ryoanji etchings and drawings were made approximately during the time that Cage’s was composing the music entitled Ryoanji (1983-84); although Cage described to author Joan Retallack how the music is different from the prints and drawings, (cited in Kathan Brown, John Cage: Visual Art to To SOBER and QUIET the MIND, (San Francisco: Crown Point Pres, 2000) 96), all three creations are inspired by the Zen-style Ryoanji garden in Kyoto, Japan. ZONE: Chelsea Center for the Arts and Guest Curator Ray Kass would like to thank Laura Kuhn, Director of the John Cage Trust, Kathan Brown, Director of the Crown Point Press, and Margarete Roeder of the Margarete Roeder Gallery. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:55:21 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...The Terrible Strangeness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we poets (as Stephen implies) are never going to be able to do a 40 hour week per se - Ron does well to do his Blog and work (my hat off for Ron - seriously) - sometimes being in work can stimulate you and also give discipline - but I think a lot of poets are nervously out here or there (where are we all?) in the dark - as to grants - the one in NZ (probably similar to NEA - I have never applied for it ever - and I am on a very low income - but things are ok, I manage though as my children are grown up etc and have some resources -but - my most productive time(s) was (were) also a terrible time(s) after my wife left me (get out the violins) and I went to Uni (age 40 or so to learn about poetry etc) then for about 10 or so years I was in a bad way (not because of Uni - University was kind of my "job" great stimulation - ideas every day - new words like ontological (great word) also "parse" and "phenomelogical" (more than technicians) - some great lecturers and lectures (some bad) in many departments and in many subjects - but a lot of grief (probably my own fault)..gone now ..but in that darktime I was writing a lot - on a Govt benefit (I had one child - one of my children - in my care for a while) then I borrowed some cash off the Govt (still owe them - still do - probably will never repay it) - hardly worked - just managed - bludged off my mother - managed and wrote and got drunk at readings and then went to hookers after or I didn't - but it was all crazy - caught drunk by the cops - smashed the car - stupid - black time sometimes - black - half the time I didn't know what I was writing - grants and applications are all "official dry stuff" BUT...I suppose if things had got really bad (money wise) I may have gone for a grant -inertia prevented me and also feel (maybe this is romantic nonsense) that we poets are always (mostly) nervously on the outside crazily chipping - sometimes writing ....it was best when I was just at Uni and not trying to sell books and reading every week - except I also went through hell, burring hell: sometimes I was in hell I think: Dante: but I wrote a lot...a lot of crap but some great stuff too I think... I feel we poets will always be on the outer if we are any good - dark - dark and surrounded by the creeleian dark - writing writing writing...then reading it aloud -immediate publication - ho! no money ... but pleasure - excitement of the moment of the words For along time didn't believe that - don't believe suffering necessary (necessarily) - suffering - just part of the sandwich? - joy also and all that [or the miltonic dark - no - yes - "he miltoned his great madness" ??!!?] But there are wonderful exceptions - but I mean even eg Wallace Stevens - well off, good on him - but on the outer - WCW - worked ferociously hard - still - ultimately on the outside - was recognised - but Zukofsky - yes - great family person, great man - erudite - great person -- like that idea - but on the outside - dark.....maybe - Berrigan - really - think though of Berryman his suffering (saw his father blow his brains out) (then he was an alcoholic) great poet I feel tho) -off the bridge -- and Celan - couldn't get it all out of his mind - the terrible times - off the bridge (in Paris I think it was) - I was saying Berrigan also on the outer - on the outer ....the outside - but good father (Berrigan I mean) his son said ...some of us on the outside some succeed - we all succeed if we love the craft and get a buzz from it... [saw tuis today on the pohutukawa - black with white tufts on their necks flitting from red flower to red flower - in my backyard - life out there] But yes - does not belittle the need for "recognition" money etc nothing wrong with doing well - not saying that - love money (strange!!) -etc and like Stephen would take money if given but I don't greatly seek it....lol... The cat is scratching at the door - egregious cat - wants in - wants to sit on my bed - my infinite cat.... My cents worth...Richard Taylor the terrible strangeness ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 6:11 PM Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In a message dated 11/25/04 10:10:07 AM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > > Something is profoundly amiss with those who own the means of poetry > production. > Poets own the means of production in poetry. That's what's different about it. It is a very capital light activity. At least in our world, the popularity of an art form increases its overhead. > > > "either music (serious music) nor dance is self-supporting." > What exactly is Seious music. Was rap, et least in its early years, not serious? Murat > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 06:44:06 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cold snap kills all but the last heartry rose the times at my doorstep weighs as much as a small turkey my parents pack for florida black fri. red to red to dawn......dusk to dusk...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:13:37 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: William Fuller in the Chicago Tribune MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Execs say writing poetry helps improve their form Poet-executives fight stress, reclaim individuality, express emotions, gain stability and transform daily experiences in `strangely restorative' exercise By Ann Therese Palmer Special to the Tribune November 25, 2004 Ask William R. Fuller, Northern Trust's chief fiduciary officer, to describe where he's worked for the past 21 years, and he'll tell you he has an office at the bank's headquarters along LaSalle Street. Ask that same question of William R. Fuller, author of four poetry volumes, and he's a mite less literal. His office in downtown Chicago, surrounded by the "L," is like "a folk tale circled by a train," he wrote in a poem dedicated to a bank colleague who was retiring. Like America's current poet laureate, Ted Kooser, who wrote poetry while working as a Nebraska insurance company executive, Fuller makes a regular habit of writing poems, usually on his 45-minute train commute. While it's unclear how many Chicago executives double as poets, it's safe to say Fuller is not the only wordsmith who views his day job as the stuff of folk tales. Poets & Patrons, a Chicago-based poetry writers' support group, estimates that the metro Chicago area is home to as many as 100 poet-executives. Fuller, who has a doctorate in English, says setting aside the stresses of his high-level post to write poetry is "strangely restorative." "My day's experiences are transformed into something else by the process," he says. "Don't ask me to explain it. I can't." Like Fuller, Jared Smith, president of Poets & Patrons, was a college English major. He became a security consultant to make money but never stopped composing poems. Smith views his efforts as an antidote to the pressures of conforming to organizational norms on the job. Blending successfully into the workplace inevitably involves giving up some degree of individuality, Smith notes. "Writing poetry is my way to reclaim that." The type of poetry Chicago's executives produce varies, he reports, but it's often related to their occupations. When Robert Frost meets Dilbert, the angst of the office inevitably spills into verse. Some find an outlet for passions best left unexpressed at the office. "It's my way of expressing strong emotions like turmoil or joy," says Al DeGenova, Chicago-based North American advertising and new media director for Grohe, a German faucet manufacturer. DeGenova has been known to transform his transatlantic commutes to Germany into composition sessions meditating on the nature of family and relationships. "My poetry ... helps me create a certain emotional stability by helping me realize what's worth getting upset about and what isn't," he explains. While Kooser commands tens of thousands of dollars in royalties and reading fees for his poetry, Chicago executives say they aren't in it for the money. Fuller says he manages to earn several hundred dollars from his poetry each year. Gerald Murray, a River Forest corporate annual report and executive speechwriter, pegs his poetry-related annual income at $1,000, which includes some payments for readings and reprints in anthologies. The more tangible benefit, several poets assert, comes in improving their performance as executives. Smith has developed a more nuanced way of looking at mundane business activities, which helps him make better decisions on the job, he says. When he writes about offices, "I'm hunting for relationships, for how I relate to people in the business world. Business executives tend to look at things in a linear way. A leads to B leads to C. Poetry is non-linear." That leads to original approaches. "I'm thinking about two or three things at once and trying to solve two or three different problems by linking them together in a creative way," Smith said. Former retailer Susan Pritzker, now president of a local family foundation, agrees. "As a poet, I'm more of an observer," says Pritzker, who writes about relationships and occasionally politics. "I can detach more easily from a situation. When I make a business decision, I think this makes me more objective." Kooser, who retired from the insurance business five years ago, sees poetry writing as a way of bringing order to life's daily chaos. "In a stressful and disorderly world, with lots of phone calls and papers flying in and out, a poem is a place of order," says Kooser, author of 10 poetry books. "Writing poetry makes my world orderly. It brings me solace. It's a source of endless entertainment." What sort of entertainment? In "At The Office Early," Kooser describes a bank with "ball-point pens popping out of their sockets in a fluffy snow of deposit slips." In his poem "The Salesman," the title character's "vinyl shoes" are "shiny and white as little Karmann Ghias fresh from the body shop"--a reference to a Volkswagen car produced between 1955 to 1974. And in "Four Secretaries," Kooser does a little eavesdropping: "All through the day I hear or overhear their clear, light voices from desk to desk ... singing their troubled marriage ballads, their day-care, car-park, landlord songs." - - - `A Death at the Office' The news goes desk to desk like a memo; Initial and pass on. Each of us marks Surprised or Sorry. The management came early and buried her nameplate deep in her desk. They have boxed up the Midol and Lip-Ice, the snapshots from home, wherever it was--nephews and nieces, a strange, blurred cat with fiery, flashbulb eyes as if it grieved. But who grieves here? We have her ballpoints back, her bud vase. One of us tears the scribbles from her calendar. --From the volume "Sure Signs" by Ted Kooser (University of Pittsburgh Press, 1980) - - - `Four Secretaries' All through the day I hear or overhear their clear, light voices calling from desk to desk, young women whose fingers play casually over their documents, setting the incoming checks to one side, the thick computer reports to the other, tapping the correspondence into stacks while they sing to each other, not intending to sing nor knowing how beautiful their voices are as they call back and forth, singing their troubled marriage ballads, their day-care, car-park, landlord songs. Even their anger with one another is lovely; the color rising in their throats, their white fists clenched in their laps, the quiet between them that follows. And their sadness--how deep and full of love is their sadness when one among them is hurt, and they hear her calling and gather about her to cry. --From "Weather Central" by Ted Kooser (University of Pittsburgh Press, 1994) Copyright C 2004, Chicago Tribune ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:49:12 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Neo-Con Purge Deepens At the C.I.A. Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Neo-Con Purge Deepens At the C.I.A.: Two More Top Officials Are Forced Out in Corporate Takeover: Peter Goss Demands Blind Obedience -- 'Quit or Be Killed!' Administration Positioning Itself For Endless Armed Interventions in Other Oil-Rich Countries: Billions at Stake as Cheney-led Coup Seeks Control of Foreign Bank Accounts: C.I.A. Drug Operations on Hold: Kappes Last Tape Interview Classified By C.I.A. Censors: By DUGLASS JEHLIBELLI They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:38:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: uprooted and cigatreets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Know what you mean, about cigs and smoke and headaches. My husband & I don't spend much time together, but when we do, everything's great love and poetry and drinking, but afterwards and hours of conversation and coffee, the cig smoke is nauseating, makes ME cough but not him. Stinkin permeation-not perfume. I'll take campfire smoke anyday, poetry around the campfire in spring, summer & fall oh yeah. But ach, it's winter again. There's a saying about native blood, that you're only native if you live native. Well some of you folk are native poets, live a life of poetry, write, share and have a company of pome friends. It's interesting, the mutual support and such. Now for literate friends all I have is this cyberia and Poetics, no money to buy your cool stuff (thanks, Vernon, Steve), no connections for paper publishing and readings, just my little village, library and computer - but oh so thankful for it all. Rooted in my reality but enjoying others. Enjoy your leftovers today, Mary ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:57:54 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea Comments: To: steph484@PACBELL.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/26/04 1:38:36 AM, steph484@PACBELL.NET writes: > Poets own the means of production in poetry. That's what's different about > > it. It is a very capital light activity. >=20 > Murat, how do you figure the factor of "time" into this concept. Many > capitalists might look at the time it takes to write a poem as a form of > "time debting" because the activity does not yield any financial return on > its investment. Indeed, the time for creating the poem has to be supported > by some other relatively "capital heavy" activity - usually a day job of > some sort - whether the post office or a creative writing gig. >=20 Right. That's why I call writing poetry a consumpstion, more, an obsessive=20 consumption, like gambling, gin drinking, etc. By its oconomic position, wri= ting=20 poetry has a counter productive nature to it. That is the essence, I believe= ,=20 of its subversive potential. It turns poetry from a "productiom" into a=20 process. I discuss all this in my essay "Is Poetry a Job, Is a Poem a Produc= t." >=20 > Squeezing time in on the corporate dime to write a poem or maintain a blog > becomes an act of rebellion or, at least, employer deception. Charming but > hardly a 'free lunch.'=A0=20 >=20 No, the poet is paying for it. That's why he/she is a consumer, unproductive= =20 consumer of time. > Somebody or someone else, often unwittingly, is > paying for this.=A0 >=20 The poet. I believe the poet must face, basically accept that. Not doing it=20 leads to illusions. > One side effect from 'time debting' is poets - in my > experience - often feel like duplicitous characters, either guilty or > gleeful for having achieved something behind the back of someone else. Yet > these feelings are also coupled with an anger that one cannot be doing wha= t > one wants to do best with a formal straight up acknowledgement, sanction a= nd > financial support for the work itself. And, in the case of many, there is > the straight up anger for having gone into real financial debt to make poe= ms > (beginning with taking out school loans for a good creative writing > program!) >=20 > On a human level, all of us are furious about it, depressed, frustrated, e= tc.=20 But, to see the poet as a consumer leads to a clarity of thinking. In "Eda:=20 an Anthology" I thank my own business, Murat Oriental Rugs, Inc., for all th= e=20 financial sacrifices it had to make in the writing of the book. Lead it almo= st=20 to ruin. > When Ron Silliman, for example, says he spends 40 hours a week on his job > and 30 on his writing and blog (then there is the wife and twins) that is,= I > imagine, a stressed system.=20 >=20 Ron is a heroic wonder to me. > Or, maybe not too differently, a poet in a State > college with a required load of four classes and 100 to 150 students, ther= e > is a contradiction of terms.=20 >=20 One think never think teaching adjunct or with a course load practically the= =20 same one is being "paid" for writing poetry. >=20 > And yet, say in terms of the long run, most of us I imagine are ambivalent > about the idea of a full time career position as poet (as inconceivable as > that may be). There can be long stretches (years) where even though one > identifies oneself as a poet, there is zero writing happening of any value= . > In fact dormancy and other kinds of work may be a good thing - at least it > has been for me. A little life in an ego-affirming job (and a good check) > can assuage the fragile esteem issues of maintaining as a poet. Let alone > jacking one into fields that are full of life, challenge and new kinds of > knowledge. I suspect those among us who have good jobs (related to poetry=20= or > not), and jobs that do not exhaust a parallel energy and time for writing > (maybe throw in family and citizen obligations here too) have figured it > out. But most of us, I suspect, will say it is a very hard equation to > sustain and something dear is inevitably sacrificed or, at least, postpone= d. >=20 > NEA. NEA. The money and recognition are no doubt refreshing. (I certainly > would not turn one down) But I can't imagine Charles Olson, or Neidecker,=20= or > Reznikoff - for examples - as exhausting their pipes on getting a grant or > not. A bit of curiosity I have for those who build their career expectatio= ns > and solidify their identity as a poet based on whether or not they are giv= en > an NEA. >=20 Personally, I find it very depressing to apply for those things. Therefore,=20= I=20 don't. I realized over years there is no connection between those awards and= =20 my writing. I don't regret or am angry about it though my essay "Is Poetry a= =20 Job" is partly a response to the issues you are discussing. Nick and I also=20= had=20 an discussion on the same topic on the list many months ago. Murat >=20 > Stephen V > Blog: www >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:27:35 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: just poetry, just life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit always doin it thinkin it breathin it when you lie down hypogogic hypnopompic phrases ideas why didn't i bring pen & paper to bed i know i'll forget what just flowed so purely the perfect words at work on off the clock waitin for the water to boil stir in pasta words stirrin round my daughter says mom you're not listening you have a blank look words rollin round behind my eyes always notebook in my pocket on the park bench at night in my lover's ear oooh that's nice i love the sound of your voice put me to sleep baby keep talkin maryjo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:41:46 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Chicagoopostmodern poetry.com Brazil profile call In-Reply-To: <1aa.2c1bfd60.2ed89e72@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ Dear Readers of Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com: In December Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com will begin a new feature Global Profile and the first is Brazil, hopefully this will warm all of you in the cold of our December In December Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com is featuring profiles and information on Brazil and Brazilian poets we are profiling Regis Bonvicino-Manoel Ricardo De Lima-Laura Erber-Matias Mariani-Antonio Moura-Angela de Campos We are also including an extensive links page to promote Brazilian poets in the USA, many of you have translated/published poetry from Brazil in either anthologies of Latin American literature or in your magazines or perhaps translations. If you are so inclined I am willing to include links to all these publications and links to any articles that you have written on the links page, just send them to me by December 8th 2004. Global Profile will be a quarterly feature of Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com I am now taking proposals for countries to focus on for March-June-August and December 2005. Our preliminary schedule which is subject to change is March-Poland- June-Mexico- August- China- December-France I am open to giving a forum to a nation and to poets who may not be as well known in the USA. send me an email at saudade@comcast.net with a proposal if you would like to guest edit. Regards and Blessings for the Holidays Ray ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:45:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 54 (2004) Liz Dolan | Lost Children Three Poems: "Recollecting Ethel Rosenberg's Execution for the Crime of Treason," "Struck by Lightning," "A House Divided" Liz Dolan is a wife, mother, grandmother, retired English teacher; she is most proud of the alternative school she ran in the Bronx. She has seven grandchildren who live on the next block. One, David, has Downs Syndrome; he was born when she was grieving the loss of three family members in four months, one, an infant born dead. Now she knows David came to help her heal. Liz has published poems, memoirs, and short stories in Dreamstreets, Rattle, Literary Mama, Canadian Woman Studies, Slow Trains, Small Spiral Notebook, The Pedestal, Ginbender, Jersey Works, Prism Quarterly, River King, Bardsong, Facets, Beach Life, The Delaware Anthology, Red River Review, Seven Seas, New Delta Review, and Nidus. She has received, in recent years, several grants from the Delaware Division of the Arts. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:50:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bill, I do think this is a problem. None of the poets on the list of fellowships are familiar to me at all and I read a bit and look in at the comprehensive selectives in bookstores in Seattle fairly regularly. I have two points to add: just how certain are we that the most innovative workers in dance, music, painting are supported by the NEA? I've read this argument in Silliman but are we mistaking a more curatorial and connoiseur-driven market, where novelty and duration/quality is rewarded for who actually gets the grant from the NEA? in this case, Murat is exactly right in saying poetry needs no capital. my own tendency would be to support the arts which require almost nightmarish amounts of training and not something that one can learn in library and cafes. We shouldn't assume that our underfunded (less than the Army band, mind you) arts agency could support this activity. The second is its politics. And not in a way usually understood on this list. When an interest group is extremely fragmented, even though from outside it looks like a shared activity, the tendency is for it going no support from the government. Politicians and, even more so, civil servants, don't like to choose sides when they will only get grief from all other comers. Thus, the money goes to the lowest common denomination, or in this case, the relatively obscure. I doubt anyone could create a movement or tendency out of the winners of the 2003 fellowships. Personally, I think money like NEA grants and the McCarthur fellows should not go to people employed to teach what they write (so poets adjuncting on composition can be funded), It's matter of them haves getting. For that matter executives should be getting funding either. If you have golden parachute and want to write, go ahead, jump. Perhaps those who got funded by the NEA do fit this requirement. please pardon my naivete, since i am a reader and not a writer. Robert Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: In a message dated 11/24/04 1:47:27 PM, MuratNN@AOL.COM writes: << In a message dated 11/24/04 11:53:00 AM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > I am not annoyed. I am not angry. I am flabbergasted! Why is it that the > other arts -- painting, film, dance, theater -- continue to change and > develop, > in fact demand change and development, while the NEA's message is that > poetry > has not advanced an inch since the confessionals. > Because all "the opther arts" to one extent or another involve money whereas poetry is the only medium wherte that connection is zero. Therefere, the idea of a monetary award is a meaningless concept, as the awards or reviews in The News York times indicate. Murat >> Murat (and anyone else reading this), If you look way back through the Poetics archives, you'll find I once argued likewise. We agree as far as this goes. However, I think something more is in play. Neither music (serious music) nor dance is self-supporting. Both are developed primarily within the academic arena, and depend on government grants. Yet the demand for innovative performances is there, and awards are given to those who meet the demand. Not so with poetry, it seems. Something is profoundly amiss with those who own the means of poetry production. Our best critics continue to privilege poetry that is in some way progressive. Yet most publishers (and NYT reviewers) emphasize the derivative. It's not as if this old fogey art sells better than the more sophisticated, up to date product. I doubt that the sort of thing represented by most of the NEA winners is outselling Charles Bernstein, or Allen Ginsberg, or Frank O'Hara, or Ezra Pound, or John Ashbery (another exception that proves the rule). For some reason, a lot of poets just aren't connected to a language/tone appropriate to their times, and they're being rewarded for it. It's embarrassing. Look, the $20,000 is important, sure. It permits artists to take some time off from whatever work they do and focus on their art. That's a good thing. But it should be reserved for those poets who are pushing the art form forward, not running in place, especially if the place is the distant past. But it isn't just about the money. The NEA boasts that an award confers prestige. If this is true, then the NEA is deliberately headlining old news. This is very bad for the art form, not to mention the reputation of the agency. I can't think of a better strategy for killing poetry. If we can expect more of the same in the future, then I must agree with those who argue that the NEA should be dismantled, at least that part of it that awards grants to individual writers. Right now they're doing much more harm than good. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:45:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: William Fuller in the Chicago Tribune Comments: To: ron.silliman@gte.net In-Reply-To: <000001c4d3b9$bdb80220$6701a8c0@Dell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron You missed out on the Sexy photo of Bill as well- R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Ron > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 7:14 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: William Fuller in the Chicago Tribune > > > Execs say writing poetry helps improve their form > Poet-executives fight stress, reclaim individuality, express emotions, > gain stability and transform daily experiences in `strangely > restorative' exercise > > > By Ann Therese Palmer > Special to the Tribune > > November 25, 2004 > > Ask William R. Fuller, Northern Trust's chief fiduciary officer, to > describe where he's worked for the past 21 years, and he'll tell you he > has an office at the bank's headquarters along LaSalle Street. > > Ask that same question of William R. Fuller, author of four poetry > volumes, and he's a mite less literal. His office in downtown Chicago, > surrounded by the "L," is like "a folk tale circled by a train," he > wrote in a poem dedicated to a bank colleague who was retiring. > > Like America's current poet laureate, Ted Kooser, who wrote poetry while > working as a Nebraska insurance company executive, Fuller makes a > regular habit of writing poems, usually on his 45-minute train commute. > While it's unclear how many Chicago executives double as poets, it's > safe to say Fuller is not the only wordsmith who views his day job as > the stuff of folk tales. > > Poets & Patrons, a Chicago-based poetry writers' support group, > estimates that the metro Chicago area is home to as many as 100 > poet-executives. > > Fuller, who has a doctorate in English, says setting aside the stresses > of his high-level post to write poetry is "strangely restorative." > > "My day's experiences are transformed into something else by the > process," he says. "Don't ask me to explain it. I can't." > > Like Fuller, Jared Smith, president of Poets & Patrons, was a college > English major. He became a security consultant to make money but never > stopped composing poems. > > Smith views his efforts as an antidote to the pressures of conforming to > organizational norms on the job. Blending successfully into the > workplace inevitably involves giving up some degree of individuality, > Smith notes. "Writing poetry is my way to reclaim that." > > The type of poetry Chicago's executives produce varies, he reports, but > it's often related to their occupations. When Robert Frost meets > Dilbert, the angst of the office inevitably spills into verse. > > Some find an outlet for passions best left unexpressed at the office. > > "It's my way of expressing strong emotions like turmoil or joy," says Al > DeGenova, Chicago-based North American advertising and new media > director for Grohe, a German faucet manufacturer. DeGenova has been > known to transform his transatlantic commutes to Germany into > composition sessions meditating on the nature of family and > relationships. > > "My poetry ... helps me create a certain emotional stability by helping > me realize what's worth getting upset about and what isn't," he > explains. > > While Kooser commands tens of thousands of dollars in royalties and > reading fees for his poetry, Chicago executives say they aren't in it > for the money. > > Fuller says he manages to earn several hundred dollars from his poetry > each year. Gerald Murray, a River Forest corporate annual report and > executive speechwriter, pegs his poetry-related annual income at $1,000, > which includes some payments for readings and reprints in anthologies. > > The more tangible benefit, several poets assert, comes in improving > their performance as executives. > > Smith has developed a more nuanced way of looking at mundane business > activities, which helps him make better decisions on the job, he says. > > When he writes about offices, "I'm hunting for relationships, for how I > relate to people in the business world. Business executives tend to look > at things in a linear way. A leads to B leads to C. Poetry is > non-linear." > > That leads to original approaches. "I'm thinking about two or three > things at once and trying to solve two or three different problems by > linking them together in a creative way," Smith said. > > Former retailer Susan Pritzker, now president of a local family > foundation, agrees. > > "As a poet, I'm more of an observer," says Pritzker, who writes about > relationships and occasionally politics. "I can detach more easily from > a situation. When I make a business decision, I think this makes me more > objective." > > Kooser, who retired from the insurance business five years ago, sees > poetry writing as a way of bringing order to life's daily chaos. > > "In a stressful and disorderly world, with lots of phone calls and > papers flying in and out, a poem is a place of order," says Kooser, > author of 10 poetry books. "Writing poetry makes my world orderly. It > brings me solace. It's a source of endless entertainment." > > What sort of entertainment? In "At The Office Early," Kooser describes a > bank with "ball-point pens popping out of their sockets in a fluffy snow > of deposit slips." > > In his poem "The Salesman," the title character's "vinyl shoes" are > "shiny and white as little Karmann Ghias fresh from the body shop"--a > reference to a Volkswagen car produced between 1955 to 1974. > > And in "Four Secretaries," Kooser does a little eavesdropping: "All > through the day I hear or overhear their clear, light voices from desk > to desk ... singing their troubled marriage ballads, their day-care, > car-park, landlord songs." > > - - - > > `A Death at the Office' > > The news goes desk to desk > > like a memo; Initial > > and pass on. Each of us marks > > Surprised or Sorry. > > The management came early > > and buried her nameplate > > deep in her desk. They have boxed up > > the Midol and Lip-Ice, > > the snapshots from home, > > wherever it was--nephews > > and nieces, a strange, blurred cat > > with fiery, flashbulb eyes > > as if it grieved. But who grieves here? > > We have her ballpoints back, > > her bud vase. One of us tears > > the scribbles from her calendar. > > --From the volume "Sure Signs" by Ted Kooser (University of Pittsburgh > Press, 1980) > > - - - > > `Four Secretaries' > > All through the day I hear or overhear > > their clear, light voices calling > > from desk to desk, young women whose fingers > > play casually over their documents, > > setting the incoming checks to one side, > > the thick computer reports to the other, > > tapping the correspondence into stacks > > while they sing to each other, not intending > > to sing nor knowing how beautiful > > their voices are as they call back and forth, > > singing their troubled marriage ballads, > > their day-care, car-park, landlord songs. > > Even their anger with one another > > is lovely; the color rising in their throats, > > their white fists clenched in their laps, > > the quiet between them that follows. > > And their sadness--how deep and full of love > > is their sadness when one among them > > is hurt, and they hear her calling > > and gather about her to cry. > > --From "Weather Central" by Ted Kooser (University of Pittsburgh Press, > 1994) > > > Copyright C 2004, Chicago Tribune > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:33:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: The news from Canada Comments: To: goodeea@sunysuffolk.edu, b-theater@factoryschool.org, bchandler@heronpress.com, CBlackburn@alumni-mail.gs.columbia.edu, chax@theriver.com, cqw6841@NYU.EDU, cmurray@UTA.EDU, dwhite10@berkshire.rr.com, dantin@ucsd.edu, glotzer.dh@mellon.com, debra.sheets@csun.edu, emsorki@yahoo.com, ethelweiss@earthlink.net, geconomou@earthlink.net, gm@gregorymcnamee.com, hpolkinh@mail.sdsu.edu, howard@photoillustration.net, frisbeehunter@cox.net, janesprague@CLARITYCONNECT.COM, jasonweiss@mindspring.com, jrothenberg@cox.net, edit@jacketmagazine.com, JoseKozer@aol.com, tumbler@bway.net, LUrrea@aol.com, mac.wellman@verizon.net, MSMexico@aol.com, MMervthegoat@aol.com, mh7@nyu.edu, abriel2@earthlink.net, norieclarke@earthlink.net, poetryetc@jiscmail.ac.uk, gero@mycidco.com, rochelleratner@mindspring.com, Steph484@pacbell.net, sweiss@Bellmarc.com, sm29@nyu.edu, tlmolinero@cs.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The following appeared in the Columbus Dispatch on 11/16/04 written by Joe Blundo, a Dispatch columnist. Canada busy sending back Bush-dodgers The flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada has intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols to stop the illegal immigration. The re-election of President Bush is prompting the exodus among left-leaning citizens who fear they'll soon be required to hunt, pray and agree with Bill O'Reilly. Canadian border farmers say it's not uncommon to see dozens of sociology professors, animal-rights activists and Unitarians crossing their fields at night. "I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood producer huddled in the barn," said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield, whose acreage borders North Dakota. The producer was cold, exhausted and hungry. "He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken. When I said I didn't have any, he left. Didn't even get a chance to show him my screenplay, eh?" In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher fences, but the liberals scaled them. So he tried installing speakers that blare Rush Limbaugh across the fields. "Not real effective," he said. "The liberals still got through, and Rush annoyed the cows so much they wouldn't give milk." Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet liberals near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station wagons, drive them across the border and leave them to fend for themselves. "A lot of these people are not prepared for rugged conditions," an Ontario border patrolman said. "I found one carload without a drop of drinking water. They did have a nice little Napa Valley cabernet, though." When liberals are caught, they're sent back across the border, often wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives. Rumors have been circulating about the Bush administration establishing re-education camps in which liberals will be forced to drink domestic beer and watch NASCAR. In the days since the election, liberals have turned to sometimes-ingenious ways of crossing the border. Some have taken to posing as senior citizens on bus trips to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a half-dozen young vegans disguised in powdered wigs, Canadian immigration authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the supposed senior-citizen passengers. "If they can't identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show, we get suspicious about their age," an official said. Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are creating and organic-broccoli shortage and renting all the good Susan Sarandon movies. "I feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just can't support them," an Ottawa resident said. "How many art-history majors does one country need?" In an effort to ease tensions between the United States and Canada, Vice President Dick Cheney met with the Canadian ambassador and pledged that the administration would take steps to reassure liberals, a source close to Cheney said. "We're going to have some Peter, Paul & Mary concerts. And we might put some endangered species on postage stamps. The president is determined to reach out." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:36:38 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/26/04 12:11:35 AM, MuratNN writes: << What exactly is Seious music. Was rap, et least in its early years, not serious? >> I agree that rap was best in its early years. But rap/hip hop is not serious music. You may make the argument that rap includes serious lyrics. But the music is largely derivative, sampled, etc. I was, at one time, a professional songwriter and musician so I know a bit about this. I meant compositional MUSIC, rather than mere popular songwriting, no matter how political the lyrics purport to be. Milton Babbitt, John Cage, Elliot Carter --not Duran Duran, or Jay Z, or even Bob Dylan. Mozart, Beethoven, Shubert -- not Robert Burns, or Woody Guthrie. Miles Davis, Charlie Parker -- not the Doors or the Jefferson Airplane. Compositional music focuses on musical possibilities. Popular songwriting, in the main, commingles lyrics (where innovation, if any, usually occurs) with variations of simple, endlessly repeated ballad, blues, and rhythmic forms. Better? By the way, I, of course, thoroughly enjoy popular songs, despite that the focus is rarely on musical innovation. Best, Bill kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:03:57 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/26/04 2:51:10 PM, robertmc00@YAHOO.COM writes: << Personally, I think money like NEA grants and the McCarthur fellows should not go to people employed to teach what they write (so poets adjuncting on composition can be funded), It's matter of them haves getting. For that matter executives should be getting funding either. If you have golden parachute and want to write, go ahead, jump. Perhaps those who got funded by the NEA do fit this requirement. please pardon my naivete, since i am a reader and not a writer. Robert >> I was able to track down most of the winners, and samples of their work. They were all employed as Professors at various universities most of which boasted some prestige. They are not obscure. They publish with well known, fairly conservative presses, and they've been blurbed and reviewed, some by quite well known poets. Murat is, of course, correct if is point is that the writing of poetry requires no capital. The same is true of fiction. Of course dancers can always film their performances on an old camcorder, or simply perform in their garages for the neighbors. The dissemination of poetry, like any other art, does require capital. But as I've already said, the $20,000 is but one issue, and for me not the more important one. What the NEA is supporting, with the rare token exception, is a kind of cultural necrophelia in the case of poetry. So much of the stuff is as bland as death. Well, I guess I've said all I can about this situation. I don't expect it to improve, but let's hope I'm wrong. As I said at my beginning, I haven't paid much attention to the awards game in a long, long time. I checked into the NEA as a lark. I had no idea things were this bad. I should have known better. Robert Pinsky and Billy Collins rule the roost, right? Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:28:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: William Fuller in the Chicago Tribune MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 1:01 PM Subject: Re: William Fuller in the Chicago Tribune Ron: I think this speaks to the difference between writing poetry and being a poet. Executives who use poetry to improve their skills at the office are like the person who reads "Zen for the Businessman," and thinks this has to do with the practice of Zen Buddhism. In business lingo, a poet is someone who is fully invested in the work and tradition of poetics. I've known poets who committed suicide over the agony of their work and the life it demanded, like Japanese businessmen used to commit suicide over a business failure. Serious stuff, indeed. While these golden parachute American poets write safe little poems, nothing that would endanger their careers or social position. Wallace Stevens was an anomaly, as genius is wont to be. > > -Joel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron" > To: > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 5:13 AM > Subject: William Fuller in the Chicago Tribune > > > > Execs say writing poetry helps improve their form > > Poet-executives fight stress, reclaim individuality, express emotions, > > gain stability and transform daily experiences in `strangely > > restorative' exercise > > > > > > By Ann Therese Palmer > > Special to the Tribune > > > > November 25, 2004 > > > > Ask William R. Fuller, Northern Trust's chief fiduciary officer, to > > describe where he's worked for the past 21 years, and he'll tell you he > > has an office at the bank's headquarters along LaSalle Street. > > > > Ask that same question of William R. Fuller, author of four poetry > > volumes, and he's a mite less literal. His office in downtown Chicago, > > surrounded by the "L," is like "a folk tale circled by a train," he > > wrote in a poem dedicated to a bank colleague who was retiring. > > > > Like America's current poet laureate, Ted Kooser, who wrote poetry while > > working as a Nebraska insurance company executive, Fuller makes a > > regular habit of writing poems, usually on his 45-minute train commute. > > While it's unclear how many Chicago executives double as poets, it's > > safe to say Fuller is not the only wordsmith who views his day job as > > the stuff of folk tales. > > > > Poets & Patrons, a Chicago-based poetry writers' support group, > > estimates that the metro Chicago area is home to as many as 100 > > poet-executives. > > > > Fuller, who has a doctorate in English, says setting aside the stresses > > of his high-level post to write poetry is "strangely restorative." > > > > "My day's experiences are transformed into something else by the > > process," he says. "Don't ask me to explain it. I can't." > > > > Like Fuller, Jared Smith, president of Poets & Patrons, was a college > > English major. He became a security consultant to make money but never > > stopped composing poems. > > > > Smith views his efforts as an antidote to the pressures of conforming to > > organizational norms on the job. Blending successfully into the > > workplace inevitably involves giving up some degree of individuality, > > Smith notes. "Writing poetry is my way to reclaim that." > > > > The type of poetry Chicago's executives produce varies, he reports, but > > it's often related to their occupations. When Robert Frost meets > > Dilbert, the angst of the office inevitably spills into verse. > > > > Some find an outlet for passions best left unexpressed at the office. > > > > "It's my way of expressing strong emotions like turmoil or joy," says Al > > DeGenova, Chicago-based North American advertising and new media > > director for Grohe, a German faucet manufacturer. DeGenova has been > > known to transform his transatlantic commutes to Germany into > > composition sessions meditating on the nature of family and > > relationships. > > > > "My poetry ... helps me create a certain emotional stability by helping > > me realize what's worth getting upset about and what isn't," he > > explains. > > > > While Kooser commands tens of thousands of dollars in royalties and > > reading fees for his poetry, Chicago executives say they aren't in it > > for the money. > > > > Fuller says he manages to earn several hundred dollars from his poetry > > each year. Gerald Murray, a River Forest corporate annual report and > > executive speechwriter, pegs his poetry-related annual income at $1,000, > > which includes some payments for readings and reprints in anthologies. > > > > The more tangible benefit, several poets assert, comes in improving > > their performance as executives. > > > > Smith has developed a more nuanced way of looking at mundane business > > activities, which helps him make better decisions on the job, he says. > > > > When he writes about offices, "I'm hunting for relationships, for how I > > relate to people in the business world. Business executives tend to look > > at things in a linear way. A leads to B leads to C. Poetry is > > non-linear." > > > > That leads to original approaches. "I'm thinking about two or three > > things at once and trying to solve two or three different problems by > > linking them together in a creative way," Smith said. > > > > Former retailer Susan Pritzker, now president of a local family > > foundation, agrees. > > > > "As a poet, I'm more of an observer," says Pritzker, who writes about > > relationships and occasionally politics. "I can detach more easily from > > a situation. When I make a business decision, I think this makes me more > > objective." > > > > Kooser, who retired from the insurance business five years ago, sees > > poetry writing as a way of bringing order to life's daily chaos. > > > > "In a stressful and disorderly world, with lots of phone calls and > > papers flying in and out, a poem is a place of order," says Kooser, > > author of 10 poetry books. "Writing poetry makes my world orderly. It > > brings me solace. It's a source of endless entertainment." > > > > What sort of entertainment? In "At The Office Early," Kooser describes a > > bank with "ball-point pens popping out of their sockets in a fluffy snow > > of deposit slips." > > > > In his poem "The Salesman," the title character's "vinyl shoes" are > > "shiny and white as little Karmann Ghias fresh from the body shop"--a > > reference to a Volkswagen car produced between 1955 to 1974. > > > > And in "Four Secretaries," Kooser does a little eavesdropping: "All > > through the day I hear or overhear their clear, light voices from desk > > to desk ... singing their troubled marriage ballads, their day-care, > > car-park, landlord songs." > > > > - - - > > > > `A Death at the Office' > > > > The news goes desk to desk > > > > like a memo; Initial > > > > and pass on. Each of us marks > > > > Surprised or Sorry. > > > > The management came early > > > > and buried her nameplate > > > > deep in her desk. They have boxed up > > > > the Midol and Lip-Ice, > > > > the snapshots from home, > > > > wherever it was--nephews > > > > and nieces, a strange, blurred cat > > > > with fiery, flashbulb eyes > > > > as if it grieved. But who grieves here? > > > > We have her ballpoints back, > > > > her bud vase. One of us tears > > > > the scribbles from her calendar. > > > > --From the volume "Sure Signs" by Ted Kooser (University of Pittsburgh > > Press, 1980) > > > > - - - > > > > `Four Secretaries' > > > > All through the day I hear or overhear > > > > their clear, light voices calling > > > > from desk to desk, young women whose fingers > > > > play casually over their documents, > > > > setting the incoming checks to one side, > > > > the thick computer reports to the other, > > > > tapping the correspondence into stacks > > > > while they sing to each other, not intending > > > > to sing nor knowing how beautiful > > > > their voices are as they call back and forth, > > > > singing their troubled marriage ballads, > > > > their day-care, car-park, landlord songs. > > > > Even their anger with one another > > > > is lovely; the color rising in their throats, > > > > their white fists clenched in their laps, > > > > the quiet between them that follows. > > > > And their sadness--how deep and full of love > > > > is their sadness when one among them > > > > is hurt, and they hear her calling > > > > and gather about her to cry. > > > > --From "Weather Central" by Ted Kooser (University of Pittsburgh Press, > > 1994) > > > > > > Copyright C 2004, Chicago Tribune > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:20:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued In-Reply-To: <1e4.2f2b096d.2ed9024d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with others who have said that separation breeds uniqueness and that things are more valuable for being rare (choisi = valoir). It remains for all poets to consider how they have branded themselves by contributing to what, arguably, is abracadabra trite in service of the status-quo. Also, my thoughts are to think about how submission to the NEA or other 'administrators-of-capital' (either monetary or intellectual) may be a rush to identify with essentialization and totalization. Exist out there. when did you forget you were a flower? when did you look at your skin and decide you were an impotent dirty old locomotive? the ghost of a locomotive? You were never no locomotive. I don't know how some literary critics have been able to bear some of the things they said. Death of the author? Are you nuts? Talk about heroic myth-making to strike us dumb! Prolepsis! *Ask yourself: how does the 'death of the author' correspond to the birth of administrative-authority over art?* It seems to me sometimes postmodernism (et seq.) was created solely to produce market-share for an industry-academy: a grand detour; sound and fury; a stage-show. (It is entertaining how the academy has extreme difficulty accepting some guy can survive being nailed-to-a-tree but they have no problem with nailing 'the author' there and having him walk away scot-free to write all kinds of 'New' stuff.) How much did a typical poetry workshop cost pre-postmodernism? How many poets had their MFA? Where was the NEA? Forgive me if I am expressing my emotions in an intellectual manner here, but, just like the JFK assassination, we must look at who gains/benefits from the 'death of this author' and what has changed. Today, most artists live by proxy. Every contest and award they win exchanges their freedom for a lifetime of dependency (rubber dollar bills). In my experience, the better poets in this world have chosen not to win a thing. -- Derek "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:31:40 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Die? Hardly.: Bruce 'Sissy' Willis Sues Over Screen Scratch Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Die? Hardly.: Bruce 'Sissy' Willis Sues Over Screen Scratch: Conservative Hollywood Actor Supports Cap On Medical Malpractice But Not Melodrama Malpractice: Insurance Investigator Calls Willis "Just Another Movie Muff, A Real Pussy".: Amputees At Walter Reed Defend Cry Baby Actor, But Contemplate Class Action Suit Of Hollywood Action Movies As Poor Instructional Films; Ditto Video Games: 'Tears Of The Sun' Renamed 'Big Churls Don't Cry' Or 'There Is No Crying In Paint Ball': Willis May Need A Sissy Tuck To Hide The Scar: Ohio Draft Board Buys 200 Games Boys And DVDs Of Willis & Schwarzenegger Movies To Keep Teenaged Draftees Occupied While Waiting To Be Conscripted By PAILEAN GAUL They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:01:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Xmas and Hanukkah and Kwanzaa gifts from Tinfish! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tinfish Press books make wonderful gifts this time of year. Please check out our new 4-pack (chaps by Taulapapa, Long, Salvador and Asagi x two) at our website: www.tinfishpress.com And there is much more on our site. You'll be supporting small press poetry and making your family and friends happy at the same time. aloha, Susan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:37:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Christopher Fritton Appears in SPIDERTANGLE the_book Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Fritton Appears in SPIDERTANGLE the_book [the real pieces are approximately 9"x12" glass panes - black block printing ink, handmade foam stamp print on glass] "some sort of pristine" http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/fritton.html [so i've attached some simple visual poems i've been making with a sewing machine and watercolors] "needle poem S" http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/fritton2.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 00:36:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nathaniel Siegel Subject: screening at Allan Stone Gallery Films by Alfred Leslie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All: Hi ! If you are in New York City October 16-December 22 you have an opportunity to see three films by Alfred Leslie at the Allan Stone Gallery located at 113 East 90th Street between lex ave and park ave tel 1 212 987-4997 web www.allanstonegallery.com. The films are: "Pull My Daisy" 29 minutes directed by Leslie and Robert Frank featuring Beat poets Allen Ginsberg, Gregory Corso with narration by Jack Kerouac. "The Last Clean Shirt" 44 minutes a road movie (second avenue) with dialogue by writer/poet Frank O'Hara "The Cedar Bar" 84 minutes Gallery hours are Tuesday thru Friday 10-6 Saturday 10-5 I believe the screenings begin at 2pm. Best to call first. A great way to see Alfred Leslie's artwork as well as these films. The movie theater is set up in a carriage house/ townhouse thru the gallery and the garden. I thought this worth passing along ! Nathaniel ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:13:36 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Marcacci Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 25 Nov 2004 to 26 Nov 2004 (#2004-331) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hip Hop music is still getting better, still changing. Take a nice bite of Outkast, for one example. And while you may think it's funny to hear that Jay-Z is big pimpin' up in NYC, I don't know if it's fading. Keep fighting it. I don't think we mind. It's certainly a record of these times we live in, if anything. How many of you poets are doing that? Is it important? I don't know. It's not serious? It is lyrically driven and, in that regard, at least, inventive. I don=B9t know if I've heard rhymes as creative in any modern poetry up in this piece, and that's a big shout-out to tradition. Largely derivative? What isn't? I've used this word, myself, to describe things, like poems, for example, and all of a sudden I dislike it. Yes, hip hop samples other recordings, but these artists are sampling from the spectrum of music and spoken language. It has crossed cultures without the need for a translator. It is highly compositional. They are making somethin= g new. The music is a backdrop for their words and they inform each other. It's a historical document. It's referential and it's not afraid to show folks where it comes from. Are you trying to hide those things in your own work? Perhaps I went off on a tangent here, but there you have it. Get your freak on. B-to-the-iz-O, AKA --=20 Bob Marcacci > From: Automatic digest processor > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 00:00:41 -0500 > To: Recipients of POETICS digests > Subject: POETICS Digest - 25 Nov 2004 to 26 Nov 2004 (#2004-331) >=20 > I agree that rap was best in its early years. But rap/hip hop is not ser= ious > music. You may make the argument that rap includes serious lyrics. But = the > music is largely derivative, sampled, etc. I was, at one time, a profess= ional > songwriter and musician so I know a bit about this. I meant compositiona= l > MUSIC, rather than mere popular songwriting, no matter how political the > lyrics > purport to be. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 01:58:18 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit short form tai chi nothin' extra no ornamentation from center less arms air like water life like dream large thighs big foot hold ground mind float.... 3:01.....lo carb...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:13:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: while i attempt to convert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed while i attempt to convert and re\present to anyone who will listen will you listen to anyone all the media there my name is destiny http://www.asondheim.org/kiev.mov http://www.asondheim.org/kiev2.mov i am legion _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:24:08 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Nea outrage et al... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit read with some interest Murat's consumer/producer dichotomy & some of the other posts & certainly anybody who writes stuffe that could get an NEA..deserves to get it & a sharp stick where it hurts.. but to cut from the scatalogy.. i think the more interesting dichotomoy is good/bad whatever that could mean..whether it's the village idiot pound..or the prof explainer l.z...& why would you need a MFA to be taught it... what you;re taught is to make a product that pleases...& would you really want to please Harold Bloom or Helen Vendler..neither of whom can either read or write English as he/she is spoke or writ...& why please anyone..either yrself or the putative or common or idiot reader for that matter..do not say..is or not..drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:31:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued poetet s poettttatryyyy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "the better poets have chosen not to win" - give me a brake yer not blake "if ye were in the world" shit even blake was in the world dante,ole blind milton ya gotta be in the world to write outside /or beyond the world read augeries of innocence a few more times - the better poets are losers but it's not neccessarily because they've chosen not to win it's because they're so fkin clumsy they just don't know how to win it's pure bull shit to say that. yer bein a real sucker a real martyr we all want to win something the golden cross mazuzah ( how the hell ya spell that drn sondheim please)??? corporates aren't poets they just write poetry well aren't we all just so full of ourselves we all want to win something a poem in a bad magazine a good magazine the iron cross the silver swastika wallace stevens( why was he an anomaly?) was a what insurance company a greeting cards salesman- tota worked for the japan bank - what's wrong w/writing working poems /poems about work/? live life to be life. to be poetry be the poem... excuse me dr. williamss charles ives turn over and weed that fkin garden suffer for our art why should we if we don't have to if we have the skills to do something else to support our art (not like me of course i can't do squat) we all want to win something i've told many a young poet /musician it's ok to hold a straight job and do your art if you can juggle. ok i know a guy named joe a long time a go gave up the sax to do wall street only i've known many like that but hey all we need is a pencil and paper and where's it written that you can't write a poem in your office or on your lunch break mr ohara? is bein the curator of moma so different than bein a computer programmer or a broker ( i know you'll say yes it is and yer probably right but hey give the guy at the top a chance will ya???- mary jo says her ex is a blue collar poet so what's wrong with white collar poets?? what color shirts do all you professors wear... hawaian like ron?) we all want to win something- real world secular world what world ya speakin on/?? ok maybe not a mercedes but hey why not shit i can't even drive but i entered a contest tonight and shouted out my second choice and the guy who shouted out my/his first choice won the cd and was i depressed angry lost again and lost a loser again win something a piece of the publisher's pie bookss bookkkkkkks we all want boooks out there our work read by at least a handful of schlamiels (sp please drn alan help this poor kike) who are not poets POETS that all i hear whinin poets potets win something like what a crown of thorns? and what exactly is serious MUSIC POTTETTTTRYYY the naseau of the spheres RAP is poetry? is MUSIC? is SERIOUS? max roach thinks so but what does he know? don't get me wrong i hate the stuff >Seriously$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$- being stuck as a corporate pet isn't that like being in academia and shaftin yerself constantly by takin that comfortable paycheck..securities or security what's the difference/// either is a bit like bein on welfare ya gotta play some game to get yer check and even then the game might be real.... like berryman jumpin off the bridge whatever happened to berryman??. lowell. ??? even yer precious pound???? plath???? sexton???? total nut jobs. shoulda all been on s.s.i. collectin them checks and food stamps. shit fellas wake up and the dufus that said if the man said they write poems to relax that they ain't poets they're just writin poetry.WRONG FELLA WRONG.... problem with all of the crowd out there crafty devils that ya are is that yer all writin poems POEMS never actually writin much POETRY take a tip from an illiterate....where's the [poetry in yer poems left in the old stump i supposed.. make it funny ugly playful (uch) well A ROSE is A ROSE and always will be that's poetry not a poem POETRY emphasis on TREE babbit cage carter we're all such name droppers and againWHO IS SUNNY MURRAY? caged airplane doors thomas jefferson guthrie zimmerman dylan thomas caged rabbit in a cowell looking for a crumb in the macrocosmos what are ya kiddin coltrane? they maybe not geniuses but why not innovators? the doors sound like the doors they influenced plenty ditto dylan guthrie hey i think next to hitler and capitalismm rock and roll is the most destructive force of the 20th century (a few other things too) but hey there are a few of them who are innovators ok not SERIOUS MUSIC even i conceed that point when art is good it is redeeming - my wife just said that like a guy i argued with the other night who said ayler was an innovator and dolphy wasn't crazy dolphy and what's the difference between innovative and being and innovaTOR ROTHKO TOOK FROM AVERY created his own thing language is he innovative or did he become an innovator i'e. did he influence others who came after him win something i wanna win something but i'm always losing my life is always about losing just ask drn - sam fuller jesse fuller fuller brush salesmen we're all salesmen and whores whether we succeed or fail is another story...and don't go tellin me "THAT"S YOUR OPINION BUSTER" i'm just too funny she tells me as the books spill all over the floor - poetry as decoration - innner necessity? where? if hgallmark offered me a job i'd take it in a snap i ain't 20 somethin or even thirty somethin anymore milosz- for unknown reasons..... searched for answers scowling grimacing waking at night...muttering at dawn sure that's the difference between US and THEM.... the search for TRUTH ... ha. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 09:10:25 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: NEA addendum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To be fair, throughout this discussion I continued to search out work by the 2003 winners. Last night I found a few samples from one southern poet who does, at least, fiddle with syntax in some of his poems, and in doing so creates something like a "voice" (other than that persistent academic drone). The tone of these poems is a bit edgy, thankfully low on the syrup meter. If these or similar poems appeared in the poet's NEA manuscript, then the situation has improved slightly. Only slightly (given so many of the other winners), but I'll take it. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 06:14:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In-Reply-To: <12f.512c2b05.2ed8fbe6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bill, I think this is an awfully high-handeded dismissal of rap and popular song in general, as not "Serious." Geez, to dismiss Robert Burns is beyond high-handed, but I will let that pass. To me, the implicit assumption here makes the mistake that innovation rests solely in technique, i.e. that it is a matter of technology. I think the idea of progress is inextricable with the idea of technology, but that technology, in the last instance, does not determine what lasts, which is art (something to memory than a thing). "Innovation" is a rhetoric, not a fact. Take the air conditioner. (Hear me out.) It's not an innocent example because early in my career of reading the Nation, Hitchens explained that his politics admitted air conditioning was progress. I am not so sure. I am absolutely sure, in any case, it doesn't represent Progress in a metaphysical sense. It's merely one more adaptation in the human struggle with heat. Some of the old ways make more sense, especially when you figure in external costs. I could say the same about how the digital world has changed poetry. It certainly has enabled some new practices, but grammar remains, among other things. The application of technique to art is not fundamentally different than the application of technology to our lives. How different, really, is the swath of shops in the Village from a market in Palestine? Is a car really a quantum leap from a horse? I am not a devotee of rap or hip-hop, though I listen to it more often than Bach, but in its own way it has a certain complexity. That thing often labeled as derivativeness is its "textuality." At a certain point, I realized the sharp divide I had set up between "indie" music and "rap," around the point of originality, didn't really exist. The musicians were refunctioning old riffs and old sounds, which wasn't so much different than hip-hop's more obvious form of sampling. Obviously, technical virtuosity on an instrument or in a physical activity takes time and money, and the support of group activities takes more. But it is not obvious to me that this necessarily corresponds with "progress" in an art. You solve certain problems and others emerge. Marsalis, to my understanding, is a virtuoso trumpeter, but I don't know that he has done Dylan has in making changes that change us. The same goes for free jazz, which often simply astonishes me, but which I truly think yo u have to be a practitioner to know what is going on. A development in art that doesn't create an audience for its reception may be progress in some sense, but I would say that was largely technical and largely something for a coterie. Art is something else. In any case, I don't think there is terribly much institutional or government support for popular song, let alone hip hop. Those who practice or admire "serious" music (which I take requires orchestras, etc) should spend more time advocating and creating an audience for their practice and not malign those that are more self-sustaining. Besides if Stephen Foster is a great composer, than Guthrie and Dylan are as well, and will live certainly as long as the country is here, as should Sondheim (is he a great composer, Bill? I didn't figure out the criteria, but then I would take the work of Burns over Mozart any day.). BTW, this line of thinking comes from all the BS that has thrown around about them hating our freedom. And asking myself, what is our freedom? Is Hitchens, the great apostasist (his predecessors are really the anti-jacobin writers, some of whom turned on friends in the English reform movement when their war on freedom, the so-called Napoleonic wars began, where Bonaparte became an evil bogey to scare the children with and if you are paranoid, create the utter hell that was the Victorian age (I did say paranoid)), right when he says it is, well, air conditioning? of course, above all, art should supported by the gov't and other bodies. it's because what remains. but I did say something about fractious interest groups. thanks, Robert Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: In a message dated 11/26/04 12:11:35 AM, MuratNN writes: << What exactly is Serious music. Was rap, et least in its early years, not serious? >> I agree that rap was best in its early years. But rap/hip hop is not serious music. You may make the argument that rap includes serious lyrics. But the music is largely derivative, sampled, etc. I was, at one time, a professional songwriter and musician so I know a bit about this. I meant compositional MUSIC, rather than mere popular songwriting, no matter how political the lyrics purport to be. Milton Babbitt, John Cage, Elliot Carter --not Duran Duran, or Jay Z, or even Bob Dylan. Mozart, Beethoven, Shubert -- not Robert Burns, or Woody Guthrie. Miles Davis, Charlie Parker -- not the Doors or the Jefferson Airplane. Compositional music focuses on musical possibilities. Popular songwriting, in the main, commingles lyrics (where innovation, if any, usually occurs) with variations of simple, endlessly repeated ballad, blues, and rhythmic forms. Better? By the way, I, of course, thoroughly enjoy popular songs, despite that the focus is rarely on musical innovation. Best, Bill kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 07:25:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG Sunday evening December 5: poet Lisa Cooper & visual artist George Welch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit POG presents Poet Lisa Cooper Visual Artist George Welch Sunday, December 5, 7 pm WILDE PLAYHOUSE, 135 E. Congress Street, Tucson Admission: $5; Students $3 Lisa Cooper grew up in Tucson, eventually earning an MFA in creative writing from the University of Arizona in 1989. Chax Press published her full-length collection of poems, & Calling It Home, in 1998, and she won an Arizona Commission on the Arts fellowship in 2001. Other poems have been published in numerous literary magazines, including New American Writing, Talisman, Sonora Review, Hambone, Spork, and others. Her interests include music, visual art, local history and culture, and the politics of the U.S./Mexico border. She claims that she has now lived in Tucson for so long that summer has become her favorite time of year. She works as a book editor for Rio Nuevo Publishers. George Welch began in the Bronx but has been in Tucson for more than two decades, and was one of the original artists teaching when Pima College's West Campus broke ground. With a master's degree from Bank Street College in New York, Welch has been painting for 34 years. He is a color field lyrical abstractionist, and his concerns are chaos, order, yin-yang, and reconciliation, i.e. with the entire ground of the spiritual in art. Recently he has been working with illuminants in his exploration of spiritual and intellectual enlightenment. POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. Thanks to our growing list of 2004-2005 Patrons and Sponsors: Corporate Patrons Buffalo Exchange and GlobalEye Systems; Individual Patrons Millie Chapin, Elizabeth Landry, Cynthia Miller, Allison Moore, Liisa Phillips, Jessica Thompson, and Rachel Traywick; Corporate Sponsors Antennae a Journal of Experimental Poetry and Music/Performance, Bookman’s, Chax Press, Jamba Juice, Kaplan Test Prep and Admissions, Kore Press, Macy’s, Paper Paper Paper, Reader’s Oasis, and Zia Records; and Individual Sponsors Suzanne Clores, Sheila Murphy, and Desiree Rios. We're also grateful to hosts and programming partners Alamo Gallery, Casa Libre en La Solana Inn & Guest House, Dinnerware Contemporary Arts gallery, Las Artes Center, MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art), and Orts Theatre of Dance. for further information contact POG: 615-7803; pog@gopog.org; www.gopog.org mailto:tenneyn@comcast.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/index.html pog: mailto:pog@gopog.org http:www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:40:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/27/04 9:15:07 AM, robertmc00@YAHOO.COM writes: << I think this is an awfully high-handeded dismissal of rap and popular song in general, as not "Serious." >> Robert, I see your point, but it's not entirely relevant to mine. I used the term "serious" because many musicians (when I was in the biz) preferred it to "Classical," a term more familiar to most people, but a misnomer. I've already exchanged "serious" for "compositional" (in my reply to Murat), though I don't know that the latter term is much better. My examples, however, should do the job. Those and similar examples live on government funding, one way or another, and always have. Popular song is, well, popular precisely because, in the main, it is far less complex and, yes, innovative, musically. I don't think I dismissed popular song. I merely stated the factual. Most of my students, generally ages 18 - 21, think that popular song hasn't advanced much since the 1960s. (They're pretty sophisticated on that score.) There are exceptions, of course. That goes without saying. There are always exceptions that prove the rule. I also made clear that I like popular song, at least some of it. Unlike you, I happen to be a big fan of rap, particularly the early work. Unfortunately, In the twenty or so years since rap made its appearance, the form has become derivative and v e r y commercialized. Still, some rap LYRICS are represented in prestigious anthologies of literature, and they should be. Sorry about Robert Burns. But he WAS a craftman of popular ballad form. Again, I don't think this is dismissive, or at least not a "high handed" dismissal. I'm just pointing out the obvious, that Burns was no Beethoven. And again, to support my earlier point, it's the lyrics we have canonized, not the music. If I say that Bob Dylan is an artist, while Britany Spears is merely an entertainer, am I being dismissive? So be it. As for your impression that I come off somewhat elitist -- well, sometimes that's unavoidable. One often cannot make judgments without bearing that accusation. In my own defense, I have repeatedly acknowledged in previous posts, on a number of issues, that I could be wrong. I don't think so in this case, but I could be wrong. That's the best I can do. Regarding your comments on innovation: you ask if a car is really a quantum leap from a horse. My answer is YES. Technique isn't the whole ball of wax (I've argued as much in the past), but it does matter -- a lot. Certainly when we discuss the evolution of any art form, we focus on how something is conveyed as much as what is conveyed. "The Waste Land" could have said what it said in conventional stanzas, without the fragmentation, but then it wouldn't be "The Waste Land," nor would it have had the influence it had, marking as it did a break between Modernism and the past. The same can be said for any number of Modernist writers. Even as far back as Walt Whitman (and further back), technique looms large in the legend. By the way, my apologies for casting some words in CAPS. I'm not shouting. It's just that my underlining and/or italics do not come through on the list. Don't know what else to do for emphasis. Thanks for the give and take, Robert. I enjoyed it. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:21:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit poets are people who too eat jealous sour grapes and carry chips on their shoulder hearts. poetry is what comes out off of their head and hands. poets can't help it. look for truth? some try, some don't, some just are expressing it. obsessed addicted to words of life poets can't stop being poets who write poems and leave the whole mess behind, bread crumbs for the lost in the woods who have never been happy or good. well some have, but that's why they leave 'em. i'm a poet collared and cornered and known to be corny. mary ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:35:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, The other day you asked how many "serious" musicians received NEA grants. The NEA has given grants to jazz musicians, some of whom take their composing seriously. I'm not sure precisely what these jazz artists received their NEA grants for, but here's a short and quick list: Leroy Jenkins George Lewis Wadada Leo Smith (I think) Thomas Chapin Sheila Jordan Jenkins, Lewis and Smith were affiliated with the AACM in Chicago early in their careers. Chapin was involved in the Downtown Music scene, e.g. playing at the old Knitting Factory. In any case, the jazz vanguard got some institutional support. Sheila Jordan has been around forever, it seems, but not in what I'd consider the avant-garde.. As far as Rap, I don't listen to it often but I've heard a wide range of quality. Rapping itself is a style that goes back a number of decades. The musical underpinnings used in the 1970s turned it into a musical idiom. (At this point I'll defer to those more knowledgeable about the subject.) When I've heard rappers interviewed on radio, they sound every bit as serious about their work as a jazz musician or poet. Best, Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:36:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <110.3dc51c2c.2eda119a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Poetry, apart from cave painting, is the oldest artform known to people. I believe that one can be a poet and exist within many lifestyles and jobs, being a poet is kind of like a secular/poetic version of Augustine's City of God it is a mystical body of people whose view the world a certain way and express the situation with language as their medium. this body is not visual it is spiritual and artistic, this is why I reject for example the contrivance that I am not really a poet but a 'writer' no I am a poet. Poets can exist in many places, Monasteries, Corporate Boardrooms, Universities, Factories all are poets I utterly reject one lifestyle for poets. R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 11:22 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: poetrying > > > poets are people who too eat jealous sour grapes and carry chips on their > shoulder hearts. poetry is what comes out off of their head and > hands. poets > can't help it. look for truth? some try, some don't, some just > are expressing it. > obsessed addicted to words of life poets can't stop being poets who write > poems and leave the whole mess behind, bread crumbs for the lost > in the woods who > have never been happy or good. well some have, but that's why > they leave 'em. > i'm a poet collared and cornered and known to be corny. mary > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:20:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: : Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wouldn't be so quick to slam the businessmen poets, although I understand the reasoning very well. I have my own criteria for determining who's a serious writer of poetry or fiction and who isn't. It's like measuring "heart" in a boxer. The ones I take most seriously have the determination of Joe Frazier wanting to go out for the 15th round in Ali-Frazier III. What's wrong with working to sustain yourself? Even starving artists have to find a way to eat and keep a roof over their heads. I hated my job, but it paid my bills and gave me the money to self-publish work that other publishers were afraid to touch. (I also learned how to write on the job, turning my bureaucrat's post into an unofficial government grant.) A lot of deeply-committed poets work at jobs they hate because they'll die if they don't. Does anybody know of any poets who write posthumously? Still, the businessman writing poetry smacks of dilettantism, or at least seems to hint at it. But again, you have to consider the individual, first. I'm sure there are plenty of people who take their writing very seriously while maintaining careers, and that there are many others who write complacent middlebrow poetry that would make us snicker---or snarl when we found out how much money they were making compared to us. Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:27:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Re: Asking for help about Slam poets etc In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks to the responders who have given me a place to begin-- still taking them, should anyone want to wing a possibility me way--- Julie > From: Maria Damon > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:54:42 -0600 > To: > Subject: Re: Asking for help about Slam poets etc > > rather than simply the beats, look at street corner and labor > oratory, participatory performance cultures in West African/syncretic > US and New World traditions, etc. Check out the first Nuyorican > anthology from the 1970s (Nuyorican Poetry), the multicultural scene > of the Bay Area 1970s/ (Time to Greez!), Black ARts Movement > anthologies (Black Fire, Understanding the New Black Poetry, etc), > Caribbean poetry traditions (VoicePrint) > > At 12:28 PM -0700 11/24/04, Julie Kizershot wrote: >> Here's a question I am sure many readers of this list know more about than I >> do. I am looking for references for a student of mine who wants to learn >> more about Slam poetry, and perhaps even trace some sort of link from the >> Oral performances of those like the Beats to what has happened in the oral >> performance scene of more recent years. >> >> >> Can anyone guide me to names, books, resources? I'm looking for things to >> suggest. >> >> >> Thanks for your time-- >> >> >> Julie Kizershot > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:49:26 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit lots they get awards too L -----Original Message----- From: Vernon Frazer To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 27 November 2004 18:21 Subject: : Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued >Does anybody know of any poets who write posthumously? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:54:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: various NEA threads Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I'm just looking through the accumulation of the last week or two of the poetics list and the continuing discussion about NEA fellowships. I've worked on selection panels for many different granting agencies, public and private over the last 20 years, virtually all for grants related to artists and/or organizations involved in performing arts, particularly new music. I know about how NEA grants are administered generally, though I certainly don't know ANY details about any particular round of NEA writing fellowships. I also am not saying that I think this is a flawless program. There are many things wrong with how this system works, but nearly all of these problematic issues have not previously been addressed on this list because, apparently, few of the people posting on this issue have known how the system works. While a few people who've written in on this topic do seem to have some sense of what's going on with the program, so much of the accumulated dialog is so completely misinformed and shows such a high degree of ignorance of the processes involved, that it's difficult to know where to start in addressing the combined discussion of the last week or so. The short answer is basically: there's no reason to believe that some external agency is going to do what you want it to & you're not going to change it without knowing why it does what it already does. Reading the analyses of the list of fellowship recipients, as well as the suggestions of individuals who should have been getting these funds, raises a usually unexamined corollary to some of the ongoing discussion: that this community of more than 1,000 e-mail readers each hold differing opinions about what writers might be "innovative" poets worthy of support. Looking back on the forty years or so the agency has operated, the NEA has NEVER made "innovation" in the arts a major priority for support, either for organizations or individuals. Whatever organizations or individual artists who received support from the NEA in the past who work in any of the various "innovative" traditions of art received the support based on other criteria entirely. The NEA generally rewards quality and stability, judging both by entirely subjective means based on information and materials submitted with application forms. More importantly: NEA fellowships are selected ENTIRELY from whatever pool of writers who have chosen to apply for NEA fellowships in a particular year. If a writer has NOT applied for a writing fellowship, no matter how worthy for a grant they may be, that writer can NOT and will NOT receive a fellowship. There is NO mysterious jury picking writers they want to support based on what panel members may have read in various publications. They look only at writers who have applied for support. I expect that a very, VERY HIGH proportion of the writers that various posters to this list think should have received NEA writing fellowships in recent years did not apply. Most people don't. In the past when there were NEA fellowship programs for artists working in many forms, and not just writing at best about 1 out of 20-25 applicants were awarded fellowships. Because of recent budget considerations, it is very likely that the odds are now substantially higher and I would not be surprised if only one out of forty or fifty applicants were now awarded fellowships. There are a lot of writers and there's not a lot of money. Looking at the range of poetry available in a specialty store like, say, Open Books in Seattle or Grolier in Boston, I'd guess that the proportion of "innovative" poets to poets working in other styles is probably 1 out of ten or twenty. To expect a program that is not set up to reward "innovation" to provide fellowships for "innovative" writers in a significantly greater proportion than this is simply not realistic. If the NEA gets something like 4-500 applications, and gives out 20-30 fellowships for there to be more than 1-2 "innovative writers AT THE MOST who receive support in any given grant cycle is very very unlikely. Applicants for NEA writing fellowships fill out a fairly simple form and submit what they consider to be representative work samples. The work samples are submitted without indication of who wrote them. There are many things wrong with any system of blind submissions of work samples. (People always cite instances in which the jury MUST have known who supposedly "blind" applicants were and that has been an actual problem in some cases. But I also know of more than one instance in which a composer was cut during the first round of consideration because jurors thought that the work samples submitted were derivative of that very composer's work - in this case, the staff of the granting organization brought the application forward for re-consideration during subsequent non-blind stages of the process because they weren't idiots.) All other grant and fellowship programs are not judged blind. If blind judging is a problem for an applicant for any reason, it makes sense to NOT apply for support from agencies that use it in their adjudication process. Members of the NEA panel (and, just as recipients are drawn from the pool of applicants, it's possible for anyone: writer, critic, reader, whatever; to submit a resume and ask to be considered as a panelist for any NEA grant category) read the unidentified work samples, ideally before meeting collectively, and make their own opinions about the relative value of the works. When the panel meets, they discuss these opinions and collectively rank them in some sort of relative order. At some point during the process, the staff will inform them of the amount of funds available for fellowships and they make a tentative cut-off point on this ranked list. Members of these panels rotate off after 2-3 years in a staggered schedule so that each subsequent panel is not literally made up of the same jurors. Let me also note here that many many artists working in all fields and genres often have little or no understanding of how people respond to their work or what it is that they respond positively to. One of the most frustrating things about serving on grant review panels is that so many work samples by artists are so crappy that NO amount of discussion by a juror who knows and wants to support the work can sway other jurors who haven't experienced other examples of what they artists does. There are only so many ways that you can say something like "no, really, this artist is a lot better than what they've submitted for our consideration." It is also likely that there is also some kind of consideration about the geographic spread of the potential recipients of these fellowships. Just as legislators are generally more supportive of funding bills which include some money that goes to their own state or congressional district, legislators are concerned about tax-based programs that do not support artists from an array of locations around the United States. I do not know for sure, and this kind of consideration may NOT made by the jury itself, but it's possible that some adjustments are made to the recipient list so that some of the funding goes to writers who do not live in either New York State or California where, for better or for worse, a very large proportion of artists in the US live. Now, about all the discussion about the relative level of support for the non-literary arts in the United States and how this may have influenced the development of the arts in the US. There are currently absolutely NO NEA fellowship programs for painters, sculptors, composers, choreographers, dramatists, film makers, or any creative artists other than writers. ONLY writers can apply for fellowships from the NEA. This has been true for about ten years now, and is very very unlikely to change any time soon. When the NEA did have fellowships in dance, music, visual arts, etc, the proportion of "innovative" recipients relative to the number of recipients working in, what, more staid forms (using the term "traditional" as a distinction from something like "innovative" in regard to the NEA is problematic because they have a program that supports REALLY traditional folk arts like banjo pickers, Hmong tapestry makers, etc) was not significantly different from that of the proportion of "innovative" writers among fellowship recipients. (There are currently two small award programs for which jazz performers or folk/traditional artists who have had lengthy careers [usually something like 40-50 years] can be nominated. They can't literally apply and, in most cases the nominations are made by staff members of organizations who present jazz or folk artists. There have usually been only one or two awards in a given year to jazz masters [though in the last round they gave out 4-6]. In the folk arts category, there are something like 6-10 awards a year [but this covers all traditional genres, including music, dance, crafts, etc]. These "master" artist awards are selected by peer panels which are, for reasons that should be obvious, are NOT working with blind submissions. When you consider that fellowships do nothing more than buy some time for creative artists to make work and in the performing arts when the composition process is complete there's still no art work to look at without rehearsals, and performances that cost far more than any fellowship can support, the comparative support from the NEA for individual creative artists has always been somewhat skewed IN FAVOR of artists like writers. When a poet or novelist completes a manuscript, the work is done. Sure writers still need to find publishers, but they have something that anyone who can read can see in something very close to its finished form. This is quite literally not the case for a composer, choreographer, playwright, etc. When they have a score or script completed, they have nothing that they can hand to someone outside of their field that can be experienced as a fully realized artform. Does any of this mean that if more "innovative" writers were to apply for NEA fellowships there would necessarily be more innovative writers who received support? No, though it'd probably make some kind of difference if more people who were supportive of innovative writing submitted resumes to be considered as NEA panelists. Does any of this mean that any particular "innovative" writer who applies for NEA fellowships regularly will eventually receive one? No. Are writers worse off than other creative artists in terms of how they are supported by the NEA? Actually, no. Does the NEA reward "innovation" in any of the art forms it supports? No. Is this system perfect? No. Can it be made better? Sure. If you want to do something to try to make the NEA writers fellowship program better, you've got to know how the agency really works and you've got to know how to work with, within, and against bureaucratic structures. Whining on the poetics list about what you wish would happen instead of what does happen isn't going to change anything. &, because of changes in the NEA's mission and operations after the various attempts at shutting down the agency in the 1980s, many of the changes people have mentioned could only be realized through limitations added the federal legislation that authorizes the agency. How many of y'all really think it would be worth spending the time necessary to lobby Congress for the possibility of barely increasing the number of "innovative" poets who get $20K from a tiny government agency once every two years? If you're leaning toward saying that you do indeed think this would be time well spent, let me suggest you first think about all of the other issues you might also want the US legislature to consider and act on in the coming years. A few $20K fellowships are damn unimportant in the overall scheme of what the current administration does and does not seem likely to attempt in the next four years. But hey, maybe that's just me. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:15:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Raymond: I think that you're getting something mixed up here, something that I touched on before. Writing poetry and being a poet can be different, just like painting and being a painter can be different. It's how much of your life you have invested in it, how much you're willing to sacrifice to your muse. It's the difference between an affair and a committed relationship. It's fine for people to write poetry when they have some time, but being a poet is staking your life on your gift. While it's true that "poets can exist in many places," they are not easily accepted in many places, because they are perceived as being "different" and having "strange ideas." I'm an ex-executive, so I know this from experience. How you make your living has a lot to do with how you live, thus who you are. Right livelihood is a primary Buddhist ethic for good reason. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haas Bianchi" To: Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: poetrying > Poetry, apart from cave painting, is the oldest artform known to people. I > believe that one can be a poet and exist within many lifestyles and jobs, > being a poet is kind of like a secular/poetic version of Augustine's City of > God it is a mystical body of people whose view the world a certain way and > express the situation with language as their medium. this body is not visual > it is spiritual and artistic, this is why I reject for example the > contrivance that I am not really a poet but a 'writer' no I am a poet. Poets > can exist in many places, Monasteries, Corporate Boardrooms, Universities, > Factories all are poets I utterly reject one lifestyle for poets. > > R > > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 11:22 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: poetrying > > > > > > poets are people who too eat jealous sour grapes and carry chips on their > > shoulder hearts. poetry is what comes out off of their head and > > hands. poets > > can't help it. look for truth? some try, some don't, some just > > are expressing it. > > obsessed addicted to words of life poets can't stop being poets who write > > poems and leave the whole mess behind, bread crumbs for the lost > > in the woods who > > have never been happy or good. well some have, but that's why > > they leave 'em. > > i'm a poet collared and cornered and known to be corny. mary > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:46:59 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: various NEA threads Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having worked on the Ohio Arts Council for both organization and individual arts grants, I concur completely with Herb Levy's analysis of the NEA. Tyrone Williams -----Original Message----- From: Herb Levy Sent: Nov 27, 2004 1:54 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: various NEA threads I'm just looking through the accumulation of the last week or two of the poetics list and the continuing discussion about NEA fellowships. I've worked on selection panels for many different granting agencies, public and private over the last 20 years, virtually all for grants related to artists and/or organizations involved in performing arts, particularly new music. I know about how NEA grants are administered generally, though I certainly don't know ANY details about any particular round of NEA writing fellowships. I also am not saying that I think this is a flawless program. There are many things wrong with how this system works, but nearly all of these problematic issues have not previously been addressed on this list because, apparently, few of the people posting on this issue have known how the system works. While a few people who've written in on this topic do seem to have some sense of what's going on with the program, so much of the accumulated dialog is so completely misinformed and shows such a high degree of ignorance of the processes involved, that it's difficult to know where to start in addressing the combined discussion of the last week or so. The short answer is basically: there's no reason to believe that some external agency is going to do what you want it to & you're not going to change it without knowing why it does what it already does. Reading the analyses of the list of fellowship recipients, as well as the suggestions of individuals who should have been getting these funds, raises a usually unexamined corollary to some of the ongoing discussion: that this community of more than 1,000 e-mail readers each hold differing opinions about what writers might be "innovative" poets worthy of support. Looking back on the forty years or so the agency has operated, the NEA has NEVER made "innovation" in the arts a major priority for support, either for organizations or individuals. Whatever organizations or individual artists who received support from the NEA in the past who work in any of the various "innovative" traditions of art received the support based on other criteria entirely. The NEA generally rewards quality and stability, judging both by entirely subjective means based on information and materials submitted with application forms. More importantly: NEA fellowships are selected ENTIRELY from whatever pool of writers who have chosen to apply for NEA fellowships in a particular year. If a writer has NOT applied for a writing fellowship, no matter how worthy for a grant they may be, that writer can NOT and will NOT receive a fellowship. There is NO mysterious jury picking writers they want to support based on what panel members may have read in various publications. They look only at writers who have applied for support. I expect that a very, VERY HIGH proportion of the writers that various posters to this list think should have received NEA writing fellowships in recent years did not apply. Most people don't. In the past when there were NEA fellowship programs for artists working in many forms, and not just writing at best about 1 out of 20-25 applicants were awarded fellowships. Because of recent budget considerations, it is very likely that the odds are now substantially higher and I would not be surprised if only one out of forty or fifty applicants were now awarded fellowships. There are a lot of writers and there's not a lot of money. Looking at the range of poetry available in a specialty store like, say, Open Books in Seattle or Grolier in Boston, I'd guess that the proportion of "innovative" poets to poets working in other styles is probably 1 out of ten or twenty. To expect a program that is not set up to reward "innovation" to provide fellowships for "innovative" writers in a significantly greater proportion than this is simply not realistic. If the NEA gets something like 4-500 applications, and gives out 20-30 fellowships for there to be more than 1-2 "innovative writers AT THE MOST who receive support in any given grant cycle is very very unlikely. Applicants for NEA writing fellowships fill out a fairly simple form and submit what they consider to be representative work samples. The work samples are submitted without indication of who wrote them. There are many things wrong with any system of blind submissions of work samples. (People always cite instances in which the jury MUST have known who supposedly "blind" applicants were and that has been an actual problem in some cases. But I also know of more than one instance in which a composer was cut during the first round of consideration because jurors thought that the work samples submitted were derivative of that very composer's work - in this case, the staff of the granting organization brought the application forward for re-consideration during subsequent non-blind stages of the process because they weren't idiots.) All other grant and fellowship programs are not judged blind. If blind judging is a problem for an applicant for any reason, it makes sense to NOT apply for support from agencies that use it in their adjudication process. Members of the NEA panel (and, just as recipients are drawn from the pool of applicants, it's possible for anyone: writer, critic, reader, whatever; to submit a resume and ask to be considered as a panelist for any NEA grant category) read the unidentified work samples, ideally before meeting collectively, and make their own opinions about the relative value of the works. When the panel meets, they discuss these opinions and collectively rank them in some sort of relative order. At some point during the process, the staff will inform them of the amount of funds available for fellowships and they make a tentative cut-off point on this ranked list. Members of these panels rotate off after 2-3 years in a staggered schedule so that each subsequent panel is not literally made up of the same jurors. Let me also note here that many many artists working in all fields and genres often have little or no understanding of how people respond to their work or what it is that they respond positively to. One of the most frustrating things about serving on grant review panels is that so many work samples by artists are so crappy that NO amount of discussion by a juror who knows and wants to support the work can sway other jurors who haven't experienced other examples of what they artists does. There are only so many ways that you can say something like "no, really, this artist is a lot better than what they've submitted for our consideration." It is also likely that there is also some kind of consideration about the geographic spread of the potential recipients of these fellowships. Just as legislators are generally more supportive of funding bills which include some money that goes to their own state or congressional district, legislators are concerned about tax-based programs that do not support artists from an array of locations around the United States. I do not know for sure, and this kind of consideration may NOT made by the jury itself, but it's possible that some adjustments are made to the recipient list so that some of the funding goes to writers who do not live in either New York State or California where, for better or for worse, a very large proportion of artists in the US live. Now, about all the discussion about the relative level of support for the non-literary arts in the United States and how this may have influenced the development of the arts in the US. There are currently absolutely NO NEA fellowship programs for painters, sculptors, composers, choreographers, dramatists, film makers, or any creative artists other than writers. ONLY writers can apply for fellowships from the NEA. This has been true for about ten years now, and is very very unlikely to change any time soon. When the NEA did have fellowships in dance, music, visual arts, etc, the proportion of "innovative" recipients relative to the number of recipients working in, what, more staid forms (using the term "traditional" as a distinction from something like "innovative" in regard to the NEA is problematic because they have a program that supports REALLY traditional folk arts like banjo pickers, Hmong tapestry makers, etc) was not significantly different from that of the proportion of "innovative" writers among fellowship recipients. (There are currently two small award programs for which jazz performers or folk/traditional artists who have had lengthy careers [usually something like 40-50 years] can be nominated. They can't literally apply and, in most cases the nominations are made by staff members of organizations who present jazz or folk artists. There have usually been only one or two awards in a given year to jazz masters [though in the last round they gave out 4-6]. In the folk arts category, there are something like 6-10 awards a year [but this covers all traditional genres, including music, dance, crafts, etc]. These "master" artist awards are selected by peer panels which are, for reasons that should be obvious, are NOT working with blind submissions. When you consider that fellowships do nothing more than buy some time for creative artists to make work and in the performing arts when the composition process is complete there's still no art work to look at without rehearsals, and performances that cost far more than any fellowship can support, the comparative support from the NEA for individual creative artists has always been somewhat skewed IN FAVOR of artists like writers. When a poet or novelist completes a manuscript, the work is done. Sure writers still need to find publishers, but they have something that anyone who can read can see in something very close to its finished form. This is quite literally not the case for a composer, choreographer, playwright, etc. When they have a score or script completed, they have nothing that they can hand to someone outside of their field that can be experienced as a fully realized artform. Does any of this mean that if more "innovative" writers were to apply for NEA fellowships there would necessarily be more innovative writers who received support? No, though it'd probably make some kind of difference if more people who were supportive of innovative writing submitted resumes to be considered as NEA panelists. Does any of this mean that any particular "innovative" writer who applies for NEA fellowships regularly will eventually receive one? No. Are writers worse off than other creative artists in terms of how they are supported by the NEA? Actually, no. Does the NEA reward "innovation" in any of the art forms it supports? No. Is this system perfect? No. Can it be made better? Sure. If you want to do something to try to make the NEA writers fellowship program better, you've got to know how the agency really works and you've got to know how to work with, within, and against bureaucratic structures. Whining on the poetics list about what you wish would happen instead of what does happen isn't going to change anything. &, because of changes in the NEA's mission and operations after the various attempts at shutting down the agency in the 1980s, many of the changes people have mentioned could only be realized through limitations added the federal legislation that authorizes the agency. How many of y'all really think it would be worth spending the time necessary to lobby Congress for the possibility of barely increasing the number of "innovative" poets who get $20K from a tiny government agency once every two years? If you're leaning toward saying that you do indeed think this would be time well spent, let me suggest you first think about all of the other issues you might also want the US legislature to consider and act on in the coming years. A few $20K fellowships are damn unimportant in the overall scheme of what the current administration does and does not seem likely to attempt in the next four years. But hey, maybe that's just me. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:47:24 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dalachinsky laughs when we differentiate art from living. Artists simply express themselves, and their authenticity isn't determined by a percentage. Since when does quantity of creations or financial suffering/prosperity define an artist? Try raising a bunch of kids, let alone keep yourself alive and still survive to have enough brain left at the end of the day, enough to create anything. Ask di Prima, ask Creeley, different paths, but ask anyone whose loved ones and life itself are their muse. It's easy to be an artiste or a christ or a buddha if you don't have dependents. Like Vernon just said, you can't write posthumously.You slave until you can't take the bullshit any longer, then you break down, barely alive, and write a whole bunch until you have to go back and put on the chains again. It's very difficult to find the sane daily balance of sainthood and selfishness. Mary ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:34:00 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: various NEA threads Comments: cc: A Kass Fleisher In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" to be precise, my rejection letter from the nea this year indicates 1600 applications, with 45 fellowships awarded... i like herb's post---a lot... i *would* like to make the entirely friendly observation, ALL of that taken into account, that this doesn't change the basic argument that bill was making: i.e., that the nea continues to award $20K fellowships to thems that oughtn't to get such things... says who?... says me!... and i say this w/o meaning to make any argument at all re innovation... i've heard such claptrap drop from the lips of nea-laureled poets (and a large number of nea-laureled poets) that i've had to wonder, seriously now, who on god's green judging panel actually thought that stuff was worth a $20K incentive... that the problem is systemic (setting aside specific cases---which many of us could probably cite---where it's been all but certain that a judge knew the work of his/her student colleague etc.) should probably encourage us to seek systemic solutions... i.e., that haven't specifically to do with writing, or even with the nea... i'm committed, for one, to submitting my work every two years, no matter what... and i've met poets who have been asked (by mr. gioia himself) to serve on the nea judging panels... so there's something an insider's game being played in that org, to be sure... now, IF anyone asked me to serve as a judge on the nea panel, i'd be there in a heartbeat (and i too have judged contests and the like)... to my knowledge you can't "apply" for the nea panel position---please, someone correct me if i'm wrong about this... b/c if i AM, then perhaps i should also be throwing my name in that hat too... it's not that i seek power exactly---well, maybe a little!---it's that i could really really use that $20K... and i suspect, but can only suspect, that were i to serve on said panel, not only would i be that much closer to landing a fellowship myself (and that much closer to corruption, some will say), but i'd be able to spot deserving work, probably by some on this list... and that alone, to me, would be a good thing, no?... 'course i'd have no doubt to compromise based on my copanelists' choices... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:28:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: Abigail Child From: Poetics List Administration Subject: quote? (from Abigail Child) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Dear All, > I am researching a quote from my book=97THIS IS CALLED MOVING: > A Critical Poetics of Film (from Alabama Poetics Series due out=20 > Jan/Feb). > > I have always believed the following quote is Shklovsky from THE THIRD=20= > FACTORY but > I can't find it even as I re-read (and re-read) the text. Perhaps it > was a different translation? > here it is: > "Facts are being experienced esthetically. A work of art no > longer needs a plot. What used to be working material for the artist=20= > has > become the work of art." > > Or is it perhaps Dziga Vertov [though I have combed that volume > of writings even more closely since it is a single one]? > I know Shklovsky early favored plot over story, but I believe his > ideas changed, as a result of coming to terms with Vertov's work. > > If one of you can source that quote =97 as precisely as possible=97I >> will be grateful. > > Thanks all. > > Abigail Child > 303 East 8th Street #6F > New York, NY 10009 > 212-673-1608> Abigail Child 303 East 8th Street #6F New York, NY 10009 212-673-1608= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:27:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Abigail Child Subject: quote? Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed > Dear All, > I am researching a quote from my book=97THIS IS CALLED MOVING: > A Critical Poetics of Film (from Alabama Poetics Series due out=20 > Jan/Feb). > > I have always believed the following quote is Shklovsky from THE THIRD=20= > FACTORY but > I can't find it even as I re-read (and re-read) the text. Perhaps it > was a different translation? > here it is: > "Facts are being experienced esthetically. A work of art no > longer needs a plot. What used to be working material for the artist=20= > has > become the work of art." > > Or is it perhaps Dziga Vertov [though I have combed that volume > of writings even more closely since it is a single one]? > I know Shklovsky early favored plot over story, but I believe his > ideas changed, as a result of coming to terms with Vertov's work. > > If one of you can source that quote =97 as precisely as possible=97I >> will be grateful. > > Thanks all. > Abigail Child 303 East 8th Street #6F New York, NY 10009 212-673-1608= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:19:10 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <1c8.21405641.2eda33cc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mary AMEN AMEN AMEN I am so tired of the ethic that says I am an academic I live on grants I am being genuine and you who has a career, kid is selling out- very few poets in this country can support themselves on poetry- they have to do something else is being a comp professor any less of a sell out then a Doctor or Banker R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 1:47 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > Dalachinsky laughs when we differentiate art from living. Artists simply > express themselves, and their authenticity isn't determined by a > percentage. Since > when does quantity of creations or financial suffering/prosperity > define an > artist? Try raising a bunch of kids, let alone keep yourself > alive and still > survive to have enough brain left at the end of the day, enough to create > anything. Ask di Prima, ask Creeley, different paths, but ask > anyone whose loved > ones and life itself are their muse. It's easy to be an artiste > or a christ or a > buddha if you don't have dependents. Like Vernon just said, you > can't write > posthumously.You slave until you can't take the bullshit any > longer, then you > break down, barely alive, and write a whole bunch until you have > to go back and > put on the chains again. It's very difficult to find the sane > daily balance of > sainthood and selfishness. Mary > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:27:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: PHILIP WHALEN CELEBRATION & BENEFIT READING at the Medicine Show DECEMBER 12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fish Drum Inc., Medicine Show Theatre,=20 and the WORD/PLAY series present: THE POEMS OF PHILIP WHALEN Poets and writers read Whalen=B9s work Suzi Winson, Michael Rothenberg, Bill Berkson, Duncan McNaughton, Jim Koller, Louise Landes Levi, Tom Savage, Karl Bruder, Simon Pettet Sunday, December 12, 2004 3:00 pm =20 Medicine Show 549 West 52nd St. (bet 10th & 11th), 3rd fl NYC 10019 212.262.4216 $20. admission All attendees will receive a copy of Continuous Flame: A Tribute to Philip Whalen photos, tributes, poems, drawings and interviews Proceeds will go to Poets In Need, Inc. a non-profit organization that gives Whalen grants to established poets in emergency situations. for more information go to: http://www.bigbridge.org/pin.htm Word/Play is partially funded by the New York State Council on the = Arts, a public agency _________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:36:29 -0800 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: various NEA threads Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, Of course it's an insider game...I thought that was implicit in Herb's comments...One Example Among Thousands: When I first moved to Ohio I was invited to judge the best magazine. innocently looking for fresh (yes, innovative!) ideas and formats, i bypassed staples like The Ohio Review, Journal, Kenyon Review, etc. and chose John Byrum's The Difficulties...I was never asked back...And during my tenure on the state arts council I saw judges voting for their friends and, when their friends got on, voting for ex-judges...Not once did my choices make the cut..That's why, thoughj, it isn't so much conspiratorial as ideological. I;m sure the judges and winners really believe they are picking the "best" stuff... -----Original Message----- From: Joe Amato Sent: Nov 27, 2004 12:34 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: various NEA threads to be precise, my rejection letter from the nea this year indicates 1600 applications, with 45 fellowships awarded... i like herb's post---a lot... i *would* like to make the entirely friendly observation, ALL of that taken into account, that this doesn't change the basic argument that bill was making: i.e., that the nea continues to award $20K fellowships to thems that oughtn't to get such things... says who?... says me!... and i say this w/o meaning to make any argument at all re innovation... i've heard such claptrap drop from the lips of nea-laureled poets (and a large number of nea-laureled poets) that i've had to wonder, seriously now, who on god's green judging panel actually thought that stuff was worth a $20K incentive... that the problem is systemic (setting aside specific cases---which many of us could probably cite---where it's been all but certain that a judge knew the work of his/her student colleague etc.) should probably encourage us to seek systemic solutions... i.e., that haven't specifically to do with writing, or even with the nea... i'm committed, for one, to submitting my work every two years, no matter what... and i've met poets who have been asked (by mr. gioia himself) to serve on the nea judging panels... so there's something an insider's game being played in that org, to be sure... now, IF anyone asked me to serve as a judge on the nea panel, i'd be there in a heartbeat (and i too have judged contests and the like)... to my knowledge you can't "apply" for the nea panel position---please, someone correct me if i'm wrong about this... b/c if i AM, then perhaps i should also be throwing my name in that hat too... it's not that i seek power exactly---well, maybe a little!---it's that i could really really use that $20K... and i suspect, but can only suspect, that were i to serve on said panel, not only would i be that much closer to landing a fellowship myself (and that much closer to corruption, some will say), but i'd be able to spot deserving work, probably by some on this list... and that alone, to me, would be a good thing, no?... 'course i'd have no doubt to compromise based on my copanelists' choices... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:37:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: PHILIP WHALEN TRIBUTE READING at Medicine Show in New York Dec 12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable text for new postcard Fish Drum Inc., Medicine Show Theatre,=20 and the WORD/PLAY series present: THE POEMS OF PHILIP WHALEN Poets and writers read Whalen=B9s work Suzi Winson, Michael Rothenberg, Bill Berkson, Duncan McNaughton, Jim Koller, Louise Landes Levi, Tom Savage, Karl Bruder, Simon Pettet Sunday, December 12, 2004 3:00 pm =20 Medicine Show 549 West 52nd St. (bet 10th & 11th), 3rd fl NYC 10019 212.262.4216 $20. admission All attendees will receive a copy of Continuous Flame: A Tribute to Philip Whalen photos, tributes, poems, drawings and interviews Proceeds will go to Poets In Need, Inc. a non-profit organization that gives Whalen grants to established poets in emergency situations. for more information go to: http://www.bigbridge.org/pin.htm Word/Play is partially funded by the New York State Council on the = Arts, a public agency _________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:53:25 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Finnegan Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 24 Nov 2004 to 25 Nov 2004 (#2004-330) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/26/2004 12:02:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU writes: > Just keep working beneath the underground. A lot of the time I > pretend I'm a secular monk writing for a more enlightened time than the > present. I'm not opposed to raising some hell, though. > > Best, > > Vernon >> > > Hi Vernon, > > I'm with you, and I couldn't have put it better. It's June Cleaver poetry. > > You know, this poetry biz has become a lot like the psychic reading sham. > Each of these psychic services provides a truckload of people who can read > the > future. Who knew there were so many psychics in the country?!!? > > Seems like Creative Writing Programs have similarly funneled a few hundred > thousand "poets" into the society. Pardon me if I can't believe that all > these > people, including most of the winners of awards, are poets. Technicians, > yes. > Craftsman, yes. But not poets. > > Best, Bill > Vernon & Bill, what are you guys doing, giving yourself pats on the back for being neglected avant-gardists? The neglected avant-garde poet is a cliche. The NEA may be a flawed granting organization but I can name a couple of deserving poets and friends who got one: Linda Gregg and Doug Anderson. Finnegan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:08:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued In-Reply-To: <20041127.033219.-94629.0.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 ..| give me a brake yer not blake ..| "if ye were in the world" shit ..| even blake was in the world What I quoted, Steve, didn't say 'in the world', it said 'If ye were *of* the world' -- vive la diff=E9rance, as Derrida would say. As it is, I have great difficulty in responding to what only you, yourself, sees. It would be helpful to me if you became more self-conscious about words and meanings as they are articulated (not so 'full of yourself' -- as you accuse me of being) before using them as a jumping-off point.=20 Also, I do understand that your writing style (sp? grammar?) may be deliberate in so far as you do not want any responses but only submissions by silence? [As an aside, it appears to be a motif on po-list to mess up one's language when making assertions -- to deliberately avoid expressing one's meaning openly -- not so much as to make what one has said imperfect, but more like untrustworthy (an unusual defense mechanism). I do not wish to seem autocratic in my suggestion, but, the effect is that foundations are too scanty for building upon (and are arguably unsound). If we are to have meaningful discussion we might chose to remedy these misdirections. In other words, it makes sense to me to defer prejudices against discussion as much as possible on a discussion-list. This plea may come too late, I know, for many it seems have cemented themselves in dispositions which will not suffer contradiction, but will defend obstinately to the end whatever they have adopted in the name of postmodernism et seq. (the pervasive status-quo). Even so, I will make the attempt, and spare no effort, for there is no positive reason to abandon the expectation of achievement.] ..| we all want to win something ..| but i'm always losing Then you have your reward! =20 =20 -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:16:20 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Finnegan Subject: June Cleaver poem? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/26/2004 12:02:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU writes: > It's June Cleaver poetry. > > Let Birds Eight deer on the slope in the summer morning mist. The night sky blue. Me like a mare let out to pasture. The Tao does not console me. I was given the way in the milk of childhood. Breathing it waking and sleeping. But now there is no amazing smell of sperm on my thighs, no spreading it on my stomach to show pleasure. I will never give up longing. I will let my hair stay long. The rain proclaims these trees, the trees tell of the sun. Let birds, let birds. Le leaf be passion. Let jaw, let teeth, let tongue be between us. Let joy. Let entering. Let rage and calm join. Let quail come. Let winter impress you. Let spring. Allow the lost ocean to wake in you. Let the mare in the field in the summer morning mist make you whinny. May you come to the fence and whinny. Let birds. --Linda Gregg Chose by the Lion, Graywolf Press, 1994 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:43:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about a con man? Or a bank robber? A hired killer? There are choices as to how you make your living, how you live your life, and this effects what you write, and what you have to say. The work of someone who lives on the street, or someone who came home from a war, will be different than someone who works in a bank, and, with some exceptions, will probably speak from a more authentic place. I'm assuming, of course, that they all have talent. If you don't have different experiences than that of others, something unique to say, why write? Or, why should I take the time to read what you've written? -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haas Bianchi" To: Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 2:19 PM Subject: Re: poetrying > mary > > AMEN AMEN AMEN I am so tired of the ethic that says I am an academic I live > on grants I am being genuine and you who has a career, kid is selling out- > very few poets in this country can support themselves on poetry- they have > to do something else is being a comp professor any less of a sell out then a > Doctor or Banker > > R > > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 1:47 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > > > Dalachinsky laughs when we differentiate art from living. Artists simply > > express themselves, and their authenticity isn't determined by a > > percentage. Since > > when does quantity of creations or financial suffering/prosperity > > define an > > artist? Try raising a bunch of kids, let alone keep yourself > > alive and still > > survive to have enough brain left at the end of the day, enough to create > > anything. Ask di Prima, ask Creeley, different paths, but ask > > anyone whose loved > > ones and life itself are their muse. It's easy to be an artiste > > or a christ or a > > buddha if you don't have dependents. Like Vernon just said, you > > can't write > > posthumously.You slave until you can't take the bullshit any > > longer, then you > > break down, barely alive, and write a whole bunch until you have > > to go back and > > put on the chains again. It's very difficult to find the sane > > daily balance of > > sainthood and selfishness. Mary > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:46:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <000201c4d4a7$9d4ccea0$59c2b043@attbi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 27-Nov-04, at 9:36 AM, Haas Bianchi wrote: > Poetry, apart from cave painting, is the oldest artform known to > people. I > believe that one can be a poet and exist within many lifestyles and > jobs I have never had a lifestyle, and do not plan on getting one. GB ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:34:43 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In-Reply-To: <20041127141447.11523.qmail@web50407.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 28/11/04 1:14 AM, "Robert Corbett" wrote: > I think this is an awfully high-handeded dismissal of rap and popular song in > general, as not "Serious." I've heard Bill's argument before, from composers of New Music. But he has a point. There's a serious and often puzzling gap between innovative writers and innovative composers - gaps bridged occasionally by people like John Cage or Alaric Sumner. But on the whole, awareness of contemporary composers by innovative writers - and the reverse - is alarmingly small; composers when setting texts often pick surprisingly conservative writers, and writers are often only aware of various popular musics, and not at all aware of the interesting work going on in New Music. Taking Sondheim as an example of an innovative composer illustrates the point - what about Xenakis, Barrett, Andriessen, a thousand others? Why aren't they part of the discourse? Innovation, in the work of composers like these, is about a lot more than technique; as it is, indeed, in poetry. I'm not, btw, dissing popular music in saying this. Nor, in my experience, do composers get all snobby about popular music - it is often a force (with other forces) behind their work. And I'm also perfectly aware that there are people, like Bill, who know what's going on. But as a general observation, it seems to be the case. Best A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:13:21 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "patrick@proximate.org" Subject: "Outsider" Poets for the Carrboro Poetry Festival Needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Outsider" poets for the Carrboro Poetry Festival The 2004 Carrboro Poetry Festival was a success beyond any anticipation, and so I am charged with the mission of organizing the 2005 Festival, to be held May 21 and 22 in downtown Carrboro, North Carolina. The coming festival should ideally be of the same scale and feel--what I am aimimg to improve upon is our ability to subsidize travel and accomodations for out-of-town readers. I am also working on developing the festival with respect to its independent status: the festival has no formal ties to any business or university--it is rooted in progressive community government. Brian Blanchfield, Brian Henry, Carl Martin, Chris Murray, Daniel Wideman, Gerald Barrax, Joseph Donahue, Hassen, Jaki Shelton Green, K. Silem Mohammad, Lee Ann Brown, Linh Dinh, Murat Nemet-Nejat, Ravi Shankar, and Standard Schaefer were just some of the readers at the 2004 event. Several accounts of the event as well as a complete audio archive are available at the festival website: http://www.carrboropoetryfestival.org In order to further the mission of independence, I am looking for writers of spectacular poetry who have operated and continue to operate *outside* the twin pillars of poetry: slam and academia. While I will feature slam and academic poets at the 2005 festival just as I did with the 2004 fest, I believe there is a sort of middle ground that I would like to be more strongly represented, a middle ground that is hard to identify. Specifically, I am having a difficult time identifying poets who operate outside of the aforementioned two worlds that seem to dominate poetry. That a poet has either participated in slams or published in academic-oriented publications does not preclude a poet from consideration. What I am specifically looking for are names of poets who have *not* received university-level degrees (or are not currently pursuing such degrees) in creative writing/language arts/lit, and who do not teach literature or poetry at the university level. While it is easy to find such "outsider" poets abroad, I find it increasingly hard to find poets in the US who are not somehow tied to university poetics or the American creative writing industry. My aim is to represent a diverse poetics at the festival--it is not my intention to exclude academics or slammers. I wish to represent the poetry of all three groups. Send names, contact info, and especially poetry. Best, Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . . ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at proximate.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:29:50 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <002901c4d4e3$4942dd40$5efdfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 27 Nov 2004 at 16:43, Joel Weishaus wrote: > ... The work of > someone who lives on the street, or someone who came home from a war, > will be different than someone who works in a bank, and, with some > exceptions, will probably speak from a more authentic place.< This is the Blue Collar Fallacy. It is simply not the case that someone who works in a bank is less human than someone who lives on the street. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:56:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: PHILIP WHALEN CELEBRATION & BENEFIT READING at the Medicine Show DECEMBER 12 In-Reply-To: <00ae01c4d4d0$50ad5780$9666ea04@MICHAEL> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Michael - are you or who the publisher of Continuous Flame, the Whalen title? How get a copy?? Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > Fish Drum Inc., Medicine Show Theatre, > and the WORD/PLAY series present: >=20 > THE POEMS OF PHILIP WHALEN > Poets and writers read Whalen=B9s work > Suzi Winson, Michael Rothenberg, Bill Berkson, Duncan McNaughton, > Jim Koller, Louise Landes Levi, Tom Savage, Karl Bruder, Simon Pettet >=20 >=20 > Sunday, December 12, 2004 3:00 pm >=20 > Medicine Show > 549 West 52nd St. (bet 10th & 11th), 3rd fl > NYC 10019 > 212.262.4216 >=20 > $20. admission >=20 > All attendees will receive a copy of > Continuous Flame: A Tribute to Philip Whalen > photos, tributes, poems, drawings and interviews >=20 > Proceeds will go to Poets In Need, Inc. a non-profit organization > that gives Whalen grants to established poets in emergency situations. > for more information go to: http://www.bigbridge.org/pin.htm >=20 > Word/Play is partially funded by the New York State Council on the Arts, = a > public agency > _________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:21:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: Poets do Film: SF Cinematheque Screening Comments: To: Experimental Film Discussion List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Continuing our chronological sampling of 50 years of poets and cinema. Do come early, the last show sold out. * San Francisco Cinematheque and The Poetry Center at SFSU present Moving Picture Poetics: Sampling Fifty Years of Poets and Cinema - A series of screenings devoted to poets and the moving image - Thursday, December 2 at 7:30pm Program 2 Couplings Yerba Buena Center for the Arts 701 Mission Street (corner of Third) * "Plagiarism" (1981) by Henry Hills with Bruce Andrews, Charles Bernstein, James Sherry and Hannah Weiner "... think of Charlie Parker." -HH * "The Last Clean Shirt" (1964) by Alfred Leslie and Frank O'Hara Booed in NY, loved in SF. You decide! * "A Piece" (1968) by Robert Creeley and Robert Zagone A five word poem compressed to a video diamond. * "Videoeme" (1976) and "Re Dis Appearing" (1977) by Theresa Hak Kyung Cha. Cha cracks the Saussurean sign in two. * "The Blue Tape" (1974) by Kathy Acker and Alan Sondheim Relationship analysis without anesthetic. FOR MORE VENUE AND PROGRAM INFORMATION SEE http://www.sfcinematheque.org/programs.shtml#266 Curated and presented by konrad steiner ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 01:01:23 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: By the numbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Vincent wrote: "When Ron Silliman, for example, says he spends 40 hours a week on his job and 30 on his writing and blog (then there is the wife and twins) ..." While I have said things like that, I could only wish those were the hours we were talking about. I have one of those 60-70 hour a week type jobs & spend, I hope, considerably more time with Krishna & the boys than Steve's formula seems to employ. The last time I had 30 hours a week to spend on poetry in any form was probably 1977, when I was "on unemployment," Ron ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:59:18 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Steve is maybe using poetry as dicssion or discusion as poetry? - I might get cemented now and then but I am open to changing my views....but others are maybe stuck - I know it can be an annoying tactic to "mess up one's language" But in my case I sometimes start thinking I know what I'm on about then realising all the contradictions and evern arguing against myself - hence everyone - myself included gets confused -interesting technique or lack of method - is that what is called "deconstructing" ? "I wake as a devil and go to sleep as an angel" Michel Foucault. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "derekrogerson" To: Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued ..| give me a brake yer not blake ..| "if ye were in the world" shit ..| even blake was in the world What I quoted, Steve, didn't say 'in the world', it said 'If ye were *of* the world' -- vive la différance, as Derrida would say. As it is, I have great difficulty in responding to what only you, yourself, sees. It would be helpful to me if you became more self-conscious about words and meanings as they are articulated (not so 'full of yourself' -- as you accuse me of being) before using them as a jumping-off point. Also, I do understand that your writing style (sp? grammar?) may be deliberate in so far as you do not want any responses but only submissions by silence? [As an aside, it appears to be a motif on po-list to mess up one's language when making assertions -- to deliberately avoid expressing one's meaning openly -- not so much as to make what one has said imperfect, but more like untrustworthy (an unusual defense mechanism). I do not wish to seem autocratic in my suggestion, but, the effect is that foundations are too scanty for building upon (and are arguably unsound). If we are to have meaningful discussion we might chose to remedy these misdirections. In other words, it makes sense to me to defer prejudices against discussion as much as possible on a discussion-list. This plea may come too late, I know, for many it seems have cemented themselves in dispositions which will not suffer contradiction, but will defend obstinately to the end whatever they have adopted in the name of postmodernism et seq. (the pervasive status-quo). Even so, I will make the attempt, and spare no effort, for there is no positive reason to abandon the expectation of achievement.] ..| we all want to win something ..| but i'm always losing Then you have your reward! -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:09:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: By the numbers In-Reply-To: <002001c4d50f$b1454870$6701a8c0@Dell> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Actually, Ron, I think there are 4 Rons. I was just quoting one of them(and I didn't make it up! ) I still don't how you do the amount that you do. I can only imagine that when the four of you have your meetings, you must be working with a dynamite piece of software that keeps each of you on task! Honestly, your extraordinary exuberance and discipline has always been a source of personal wonder and hardly an example that many - I suspect - will ever match. Which I suspect is probably a healthy, relieved state for many of us relative loafers out here! Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > Steve Vincent wrote: > > "When Ron Silliman, for example, says he spends 40 hours a week on his > job > and 30 on his writing and blog (then there is the wife and twins) ..." > > While I have said things like that, I could only wish those were the > hours we were talking about. I have one of those 60-70 hour a week type > jobs & spend, I hope, considerably more time with Krishna & the boys > than Steve's formula seems to employ. The last time I had 30 hours a > week to spend on poetry in any form was probably 1977, when I was "on > unemployment," > > Ron ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 02:43:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ''the dvd ''Home Brew''' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (Mr Nudel, thank you for coming!) ''the dvd ''Home Brew''' the dvd 'Home Brew' just available this evening at the big show you may buy the dvd 'the dvd 'Home Brew'' for $15.00 post paid. most of it was shown at the big show and what wasn't shown at the big show might have been. the big show was terrific. C:\dvd\zthrumb.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:14|NTSC|5362 kbps C:\dvd\wvugallery.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:07:49|NTSC|5012 kbps C:\dvd\wv1 042.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:01:57|NTSC|5030 kbps= C:\dvd\wump.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:11|NTSC|5278 kbps C:\dvd\surf 145.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:04|NTSC|5387 kbps C:\dvd\surf 088.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:10|NTSC|5405 kbps0 C:\dvd\sprites.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:01:04|NTSC|5077 kbps C:\dvd\slu.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:30|NTSC|5110 kbps C:\dvd\runds.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:33|NTSC|5040 kbps C:\dvd\orgasm.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:22|NTSC|5225 kbps C:\dvd\monu.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:01:56|NTSC| 5040 kbpsDTfDTiIXnIWmFThFSb16?)/9HWjL`wJ` C:\dvd\kiev.m2v 720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:02|NTSC|@ C:\dvd\kiev2.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:03|NTSC|5560 kbps C:\dvd\intothedark.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:02:00|NTSC|5039 kbps C:\dvd\innocents.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:12|NTSC|5147 kbps C:\dvd\icegrid.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:02:27|NTSC|5035 kbps 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C:\dvd\WolfTC.wav(|48.0 kHz|16 bits|00:01:39|PCM|1547 kbps ly}h{~g|~huvbvwbvwbvwavxavx_wx`zza{{bwx^tu[opVcbEVV7ZZ:_]@ifKvu^|}a C:\dvd\zthrumb.wav C:\dvd\wvugallery.wav C:\dvd\wv1 042.wav C:\dvd\wump.wav C:\dvd\surf 145.wav C:\dvd\surf 088.wav C:\dvd\sprites.wav C:\dvd\slu.wav C:\dvd\runds.wav C:\dvd\orgasm.wav C:\dvd\monu.wav C:\dvd\kiev.wav C:\dvd\kiev2.wav C:\dvd\intothedark.wav C:\dvd\innocents.wav C:\dvd\icegrid.wav C:\dvd\hundred.wav C:\dvd\funnn.wav C:\dvd\extesis.wav C:\dvd\elcap.wav C:\dvd\dup.wav C:\dvd\dump.wav C:\dvd\deathfugue.wav C:\dvd\danceofdeath.wav C:\dvd\crazyjane.wav C:\dvd\c 211.wav C:\dvd\brigdanc.wav C:\dvd\bodyTest.wav C:\dvd\blume.wav C:\dvd\bbb 137.wav C:\dvd\bathingbeauties.wav C:\dvd\archon.wav C:\dvd\arch2.wav C:\dvd\americaness.wav C:\dvd\america.wav C:\dvd\abughr.wav C:\dvd\WolfTC.wav _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 02:50:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Spoons Collective MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Spoons Cybermind and fiction-of-philosophy, now wryting, began in association with Spoons, and on the Spoons servers. Malgosia Askanas has been the major force, I believe, in Spoons - which has brilliantly housed a number of philosophy lists for years. The fading of the collective is, I think, incredibly sad, and for me, (I don't speak for anyone else) reflects not only the growth of the somewhat protective domains of the blogs, but also the increasing turn to the right wing in the United States, accompanied by an erosion of discourse. This erosion isn't only found in enclave-building, acerbic commentary, the usual disunity, but also in a very real exhaustion: how we can talk, and talk, and talk... Alan Subject: [HAB:] The habermas list - PLEASE READ To: habermas@lists.village.virginia.edu Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:43:39 -0500 (EST) From: "malgosia askanas" Dear All, This is to let you know that in about two weeks I intend to close down the habermas list. This decision is part of a wider set of decisions having to do with the present circumstances of the Spoon Collective - which, as you probably know, has been running this list. The Spoon Collective, of which I am the sole surviving founder, has been operating continually for over 10 years. Of the 8 people who currently constitute it, 3 have been in it basically from the very beginning, and almost all the others for almost as long. When the Spoon Collective was originally created, a crucial aspect of its life was our own passionate involvement in the lists we created or took over. As vehicles for bringing into mutual contact and confrontation thinking people from all over the computerized world - people from astoundingly different walks of life and with astoundingly different ways of thinking, but with a shared passion for more accurate perception and deeper understanding - these lists seemed to us to present a stupendous potential for evolving new modes of thought and new modes of life. And it is essential to note that when we were motivated by a thirst for new modes of thought and life, it was for _ourselves_ that we wanted them. Our project was not about providing a public or academic or political service, discharging a societal duty, or providing platforms for this or that political organization or orientation - rather, it was about changing life - the life we think and live - right at the present moment. Over the years, however, our relationship with our lists gradually changed, and we now find our collective endeavor basically reduced to an indifferent performance of a not-excessively-bothersome piece of labor. The reasons for this are undoubtedly complex - the first and simplest one, perhaps, being that the same group of people has been doing the same thing for 10 years. If our goal had been less the stability of existing lists and more the preservation of our own passion, we probably could have done better. In any case, we find ourselves a bunch of burnt out and apathetic bureaucrats. I personally find thie prolongation of this situation no longer tolerable or sensical. As a result, I have (1) announced that I am quitting the Spoon Collective; (2) decided to close down a number of lists that I have been responsible for; and (3) declared the end of the Spoon Collective as a certain historic formation, and stipulated that the name no longer be used for whatever the present members may undertake in the future. I, of course, cannot judge the value of any particular list from any perspective but my own - and neither would I want to. Only each of you can decide whether you value this list enough to step in and recreate it somewhere else. If any of you wants to do this, I can make available to you a copy of the subscription list, a tarred and gzipped copy of the archive, and software support for a smooth transition. The present list will stop operating around December 10th. A number of the other members of Spoon have expressed an interest in either continuing their present lists or initiating other collective projects at Virginia. We very much hope that no matter what develops, the Spoon archives, which, in large part, constitute an eminently useful and fascinating resource, can continue to be housed in their present location. In addition, a copy of the archives is being installed at the domain driftline.org, where they will soon be accessible over the Web. If anybody would like to house additional copies of the full or individual archives elsewhere, this would of course increase the goodness. Yours, -malgosia ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 02:50:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ray did you read my l;ong post yesterday? that's what i was getting at proff or banker it's all corporate..... where is my long post it never came back to me ??? here here maryjo sadly or gladly i have no kids but taking care of myself has been difficult enough bravo life as art those pompous a-holes will get the difference one day and realize there is none to elevate the common place or eliminate it i say transform it the field's open use it channel your surroundings yes and no the work one does can certainly effect one's life and writing but being of/in please someone tell me the difference sorry again derek i misquoted hey a banker who was homeless and in the war they exist... certainly no joking a banker who was in the war i once met one who was homeless after his wife left him all experience figures in if a homeless guy steps in shit or a vietnam vet or a banker who knows what will be similar in their poems and different they're all in/of the world banker - shit i stepped in shit/ruined my 300$ shoes ( i'm hungry wonder what's for dinner tonight?) ex-soldier - shit i stepped in shit well at least it wasn't a land mine ( """""""""} homeless guy /chick - shit i stepped in shit i stepped in shit i stepped in shit ("""""""""") yes what about those chick/bankers computer programmers soldiers homeless chicks this list even with its women is always so male banker - my life is shit soldier - my life is shit homeless guy/chick - my life is shit remember these are all "poets" thanks for listening no need to answer i am not of this world wasn't that a 50's sci-fi flick? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 01:41:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit marsalis sets music back 50-60 yrs or more and what's this bullshit you have to be a practioner of free jazz to get it appreciate it whatever just BULLshit it comes in it comes it like cecil taylor did for me when i first heard him at 16 yrs or so or it grows as you learn to listen if that's possible you listen to rap more than bach i pity you well not really i pity me more i guess language poets wre the only oned who get language poetry FART FART frat tarf raft art(f) arf(t) etc could you imagine what the state of art, especially the stuff out of the mainstream like free jazz, abstrascgt expressionism worth millions,whose audience sadly is too small, would be if it was only listened to seen appreciated by their practitioners that goes for a great innovator named bach as well wouldn't you have to be a practitioner of whatever you do like plumbing to really know what's going on or poetry bad or good well not mee i'm sort of a practioner but i'll be damned if i know what's happenin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:52:06 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit drakes cakes aches hee haaw pussy music a REALLY big show wifi..tintintintabu 3:00...rain of the roof....drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:38:55 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: A further note on Wars I Cannot Know Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "If it describes what it sees how does it do it. If it describes what it knows how does it do it and what is the difference between what it sees and what it knows. And then too there is what it feels and then also there is what it hopes and wishes and then to there is what it would see if it could see and then there is what it explains" (Lectures 14). "Some say it is repression but no it is not repression it is a lack of connection, of there being no connection with living and daily living because there is none, that makes American writing what it always has been and what it will continue to become." (Lectures 53-4). Last week in one of the international newspapers in English a journalist wrote (I'm quoting from memory) 'for now the border between East and West appears to be the Dnieper river'. "I keep telling the French people that they do not understand twentieth century war-fare, I get angry I say after all if the Anglo-Americans had not blown up as they did everything in Germany and in the countries working for Germany the Russians would be still where they were in the elbow of the Dnieper" (Wars 164). Either there's no relationship at all between the reference in last week's news and Stein's--if referentiality is a problem in that chronicle, i.e. "it can be anything and if it is it can change to anything else and after all what difference does it make" (Wars 72)--and so aligning them merely plays on the coincidence, or, in the attempt to try to see, however briefly, even in the moment of a single word, like a place name in Ukraine, any logic in history, if there are processes operating beneath events and their appearances, so that one might grasp in the present the threatening idea of an unfinished century and its unfinished wars: "This present war is so logical as I understand logic so much more logical than the 1914-'18 war, that was relatively simple and you had simple opinions and simple points of view but this war, well there are so many sides to be on all logical and the events in spite of their confusion are so logical, not nineteenth century at all not at all. The nineteenth century was completely lacking in logic, it had cosmic terms and hopes, and aspirations, and discoveries, and ideals but it had no logic, and I like logic I really do, I suppose that is the reason that I so naturally had my part in killing the nineteenth century and killing it dead, quite like a gangster with a mitraillette, if that is the same as a tommy gun" (Wars I Have Seen 91). In the 1934 Narration lectures it's the time of the Old Testament when people are said to have "felt what they saw" and that might be one problem linking Stein's chronicle to last week's news, at least for anyone experiencing in their writing (or other arts) the space separating visual information from the ability to feel it, whatever that might mean in a world of false forms. It might mean silence. It might mean the ability of language to register the blow. It might mean going into the difference, antithesis, between allegorical and technical image, for the Marine in the Mosque in Falluja needs to accrue interpretive density for the information flows to be slowed down. It might even mean freedom if one freedom can be conceived as confronting the ethics of the representation, going there and getting that in the space of its negativity. Does Stein's chronicle explore the minimal emotional register of the spectator? Writing undergoes perceptual and cognitive problems which it cannot solve or pretend to solve, unlike so much discourse. "...it is a new form of jazz, unconditional surrender..." (Wars 111). Whose logic would that be anyway to explain passages from Stein's chronicle rather than view them, play with them even, if on one plane among many in the space separating literature from history there is this playfulness (agility, delight, caprice) involving giving in, giving up, giving over to the aimless visual and auditory signals pounding eye and ear, the shores of consciousness as if it, or they, or that other, that double, the mind and its writing, were ever or could ever be thought. "I personally think that the solution is that one must amuse himself with anything and not think to recognize anything beside this thing, beside playing with what he is playing with as he is writing what he is recognizing while the writing is being written by him" (Narration 58-9). That would be to give the writing some freedom. What is that? Whatever the injunction is not. The injunction arrives by force from outside the writing and turns the writing towards the outside the injunction determines. If there are 'liberated zones' in Wars I Have Seen, as when the Bolsheviks are mentioned, drifting up for a moment from the flows of headlines and radio programs, said by Stein to have "enjoyed" what they were doing, especially at Brest-Litovsk (Wars 80) ("a war that puts an end to a century that makes one century change to another century that kind of war always makes a considerable part of the population get moving and in a way they enjoy it, the Russians did after the Russian revolution" (Wars 107). Wars I Have Seen writes off the talk in the village, on the trains, in the markets, in the newspapers, on the radio, and memory, as much as it exists, passes across the outlines of events as accelerated ephemera, and one might even understand the problem of the proposition that "I was there to begin to kill what was not dead" (Wars 21) both as caption to media image of the Marine in the Mosque in Falluja and as counter-logic to Benjamin's historical materialism, working at the same time and very nearly the same place on waking the nineteenth century from its collective dream ("there is no resurrection none at all for the nineteenth century, none" (Wars 104)). Does Stein's chronicle slide in the direction of the hall of mirrors, that Arcade of Avant-Garde where problems of representation are mistaken for history? The strangest sentence in the Narration lectures all but invokes the project of the Passagen in a statement of not-knowing which needs to be remembered in any reading of Wars I Have Seen: "It is worse than the wailing of the dead soldier in L'Aiglon there are so many auditors there have been so many auditors, and there really can only be the one that is the one, and there are so many of them there have been so many of them and how can the historian lose them how can he how can he lose any of them and how can he lose all of them and if he does not how can history be writing that is be literature. How can it. Well I am sure I do not know" (Narration 61). Wars I Have Seen opens with the phrase: "I do not know." "This makes literature words whether you choose them whether you use them, whether they are there whether you use them, whether they are there whether or not you use them and whether they are no longer there even when you are still going on using them. And in this way a century is a century. One century has words, another century chooses words, another century uses words and then another century using the words no longer has them" (Lectures 27). In the face of the threat of the thought of the wars that are coming, that writing in English now can no longer possess itself, its language, must instead experience itself only as dispossessed, putting the lie to purifying the dialect of the tribe or any kindred retrograde sanitizing impulses and directions: injunctions. Writing as writing that is put out of itself, taken from itself, broken off from itself, the sinthomatic repetition that a century is generally a hundred years, repeated across multiple texts from Stein's 1934 visit to the U.S., and returning in the 1943-44 chronicle, cannot be taken as a serious theoretical proposition but as its negative: the nonsense sentence belabors the false obvious and reiterates the shut-in time of the writing, what the writing is caught inside of and the frame for which there is no outside. _ Lectures in America. New York: Vintage Books, 1975. Narration. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1935. Wars I Have Seen. London: Brilliance Books, 1984. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:09:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: PHILIP WHALEN CELEBRATION & BENEFIT READING at the Medicine Show DECEMBER 12 Comments: cc: Suzi Winson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stephen, Fish Drum is the publisher of Continuous Flame. You can contact Suzi Winson at: fishdrum@earthlink.net . I am not sure how else they are going to be distributed. Drop Suzi a line. Cheers, Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 11:56 PM Subject: Re: PHILIP WHALEN CELEBRATION & BENEFIT READING at the Medicine Show DECEMBER 12 Michael - are you or who the publisher of Continuous Flame, the Whalen title? How get a copy?? Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > Fish Drum Inc., Medicine Show Theatre, > and the WORD/PLAY series present: > > THE POEMS OF PHILIP WHALEN > Poets and writers read Whalen¹s work > Suzi Winson, Michael Rothenberg, Bill Berkson, Duncan McNaughton, > Jim Koller, Louise Landes Levi, Tom Savage, Karl Bruder, Simon Pettet > > > Sunday, December 12, 2004 3:00 pm > > Medicine Show > 549 West 52nd St. (bet 10th & 11th), 3rd fl > NYC 10019 > 212.262.4216 > > $20. admission > > All attendees will receive a copy of > Continuous Flame: A Tribute to Philip Whalen > photos, tributes, poems, drawings and interviews > > Proceeds will go to Poets In Need, Inc. a non-profit organization > that gives Whalen grants to established poets in emergency situations. > for more information go to: http://www.bigbridge.org/pin.htm > > Word/Play is partially funded by the New York State Council on the Arts, a > public agency > _________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:32:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: TINFISH SALE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tinfish Press announces this year's 5-pack, up from last year's 4-. Please see our website: www.tinfishpress.com for details. And for our other journal issues, chaps, and books, all of which make wonderful gifts. aloha, Susan M. Schultz Editor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:01:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <20041128.030839.-66733.17.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in an ideal world poets' work would be valued by our society and poets would be able to live doing their art in some way the unfortunate reality is that most artists and especially poets have no choice but to do something to make money to live. Many poets choose to become academics- I for one have rejected this route only because I was already living and working when I began to write poetry and prose. I think however it is important not to depricate people for their choices regarding how they make their living. I look at Williams as a lodestar on this he worked his whole life as a doctor and as a poet- there are many people I know who are like this today-many of them on this list- the big problem in my opinion with poetry is a lack of diversity of experience. I find that many people have had the same life experiences in poetry and hence allot of writing is not interesting or is interesting only to a few people. How many more poems do we need from someone who grew up in a liberal suburb- went to (Add Elite School Here) and then went to Iowa or Brown or NYU and is now living in New York writing? I think that serious poets exist in many areas and I know Bill Fuller from whom this string originated- and while he is a senior executive here in Chicago and lives in one of Chicago's richest suburbs- his poetry has real merit and like Pound who lived as a a dilitante, and Williams who lived as a doctor and Stevens who lived as an insurance salesman Bill Fuller's work has value not for his lifestyle choices but because of th merit of the work. R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:51 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > ray did you read my l;ong post yesterday? that's what i was getting at > proff or banker it's all corporate..... where is my long post it never > came back to me ??? > > here here maryjo sadly or gladly i have no kids but taking care of > myself has been difficult enough bravo life as art those pompous > a-holes will get the difference one day and realize there is none > > > to elevate the common place or eliminate it > > i say transform it the field's open use it > > channel your surroundings > > yes and no the work one does can certainly effect one's life and > writing > > but being of/in please someone tell me the difference sorry again derek > i misquoted > > hey a banker who was homeless and in the war they exist... > > certainly no joking a banker who was in the war > i once met one who was homeless after his wife left him > > all experience figures in > if a homeless guy steps in shit > or a vietnam vet > or a banker who knows what will be similar in their poems and > different > they're all in/of the world > > banker - shit i stepped in shit/ruined my 300$ shoes ( i'm hungry wonder > what's for dinner tonight?) > > ex-soldier - shit i stepped in shit well at least it wasn't a land > mine ( """""""""} > > homeless guy /chick - shit i stepped in shit i stepped in shit i > stepped in shit ("""""""""") > > yes what about those chick/bankers computer programmers soldiers > homeless chicks > > this list even with its women is always so male > > banker - my life is shit > > soldier - my life is shit > > homeless guy/chick - my life is shit > > remember these are all "poets" thanks for listening no need to > answer > > i am not of this world wasn't that a 50's sci-fi flick? > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:13:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued In-Reply-To: <000301c4d4b1$ede4a0e0$bc1286d4@o2p8f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit L You're thinking of poets who PUBLISH posthumously. If you want my take on writers (not necessarily poets) who actually WRITE posthumously, check these out: http://www.jackmagazine.com/issue5/teapartyvfrazer.html and scroll to "Shooting for Immortality" at http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2004/01-01-04/madlove-plaintext.htm V. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Lawrence Upton Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 1:49 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued lots they get awards too L -----Original Message----- From: Vernon Frazer To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 27 November 2004 18:21 Subject: : Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued >Does anybody know of any poets who write posthumously? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:24:53 -0500 Reply-To: Wald Reid Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wald Reid Subject: looking for readings: baltimore, philly, st. louis areas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi--- i'm looking for readings (travel/hotel coverage preferable) in baltimore and philly in the earlier part of next year, and the st. louis area any time. anyone with suggestions, kindly backchannel. many thanks! diane wald ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:37:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: various NEA threads In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Herb -- this is great information. Most of it I know, but I've never seen it laid out quite like this. Having served on an NEA panel (not for writers' fellowships), I can say that Herb's description of the actual deliberations process is very good. I'd also add that, with the array of people on the panels, even if there is one person on a panel in favor of "innovative" proposals, and even if that person ranks such proposals as highly as possible and ranks others very low, it's still likely that such proposals will not be funded, or, as Herb says, will only receive 1 or 2 (grants or fellowships) rather than the many we on this list may think they deserve. And to think that a majority of panelists on any NEA panel might favor "innovative" practices is just not realistic. The other thing I wanted to add to this discussion has to do with why there are still fellowships given to writers. My recollection is that in 1993-94-95 (or thereabouts), when the most draconian of cuts hit the NEA, and when plans took shape to eliminate individual fellowships in the other arts, Gigi Bradford, who was head of NEA Literature programs, assisted by Jim Sitter (then head of CLMP and a sometime advisor to the NEA, lobbyist to Congress on behalf of the arts, etc.), and probably a few others, worked very hard to preserve the writers' fellowships, and their argument was based on an analysis of the field of literature, nationwide, that determined that the literary field was really weak in terms of its organizations that might be funded -- yes there were some writer's centers, presses, etc. -- but even the largest of their budgets didn't begin to compare to major dance companies, theatre companies, art museums, etc. Also, the literary organizations were weak in the sense that there wasn't a lot of partnership between and among them. And, by far the greatest funding of the NEA to literature was through fellowships, which wasn't ever true in the other arts. So, if the NEA writers' fellowships had been eliminated, there was a very strong chance that the NEA literary funding would have just been eliminated altogether, or it would have been so small that the lit programs might have been partnered with folk arts or some other programs, or in some major way shunted aside. Those who cared and worked hard at it were successful in preserving these fellowships, which helped them to be successful in preserving funding for other literary organizations, too. And while I agree that the majority of this funding goes to individuals and organizations that I don't think are the most crucial, I'm not convinced that shutting down all NEA funding for literature would be a good thing at all. I'm one of those who, like Herb speculates, usually doesn't apply for the fellowships, although I think I should. I wish all of you would. But even if we all do, I'm not sure it will change the fact that only one or two "innovative" writers might receive such fellowships in any given year. I think the possibilities of getting involved in a way that shift funding opportunities at least slightly more toward innovators, are better on the local and possibly state levels, where you can more easily go to meetings, get on committees, artists' panels, advisory panels, etc. Of course this is going to differ from locality to locality and state to state, and it may involve a lot of down-and-dirty networking that doesn't appeal to a lot of you. But it will lead, as Herb indicates, to being better informed about the processes that determine governmental funding in the arts, and if you want to change it, knowing about it can't hurt. Charles ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:37:49 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: By the numbers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I am also impressed by Ron Silliman's work, here is all my admiration, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admirers. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:09:00 -0800, Stephen Vincent wrote: > Actually, Ron, I think there are 4 Rons. I was just quoting one of them(and > I didn't make it up! ) > I still don't how you do the amount that you do. I can only imagine that > when the four of you have your meetings, you must be working with a dynamite > piece of software that keeps each of you on task! > > Honestly, your extraordinary exuberance and discipline has always been a > source of personal wonder and hardly an example that many - I suspect - will > ever match. Which I suspect is probably a healthy, relieved state for many > of us relative loafers out here! > > Stephen V > Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > > > > > > Steve Vincent wrote: > > > > "When Ron Silliman, for example, says he spends 40 hours a week on his > > job > > and 30 on his writing and blog (then there is the wife and twins) ..." > > > > While I have said things like that, I could only wish those were the > > hours we were talking about. I have one of those 60-70 hour a week type > > jobs & spend, I hope, considerably more time with Krishna & the boys > > than Steve's formula seems to employ. The last time I had 30 hours a > > week to spend on poetry in any form was probably 1977, when I was "on > > unemployment," > > > > Ron > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:38:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I want to end my participation in this thread by summing up my thoughts on this. To think that how you make your living, what you spend at least one-third of your day doing, and the people you spend that time with, doesn't effect your work, for better or for worse, is to be naive about how the human mind forms itself. This is not a value judgment, just an observation. There are people who can and do operate on several levels at once--T.S. Eliot and Wallace Stevens are two notable examples--, but they are the exceptions. There are always exceptions. But for the most part, as Maurice Merleau-Ponty pointed out, one lives the life one must live in order to do the work one must do. I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how varied, how far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at that point will be telling of the life you've lived. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 4:43 PM Subject: Re: poetrying > How about a con man? Or a bank robber? A hired killer? There are choices as > to how you make your living, how you live your life, and this effects what > you write, and what you have to say. The work of someone who lives on the > street, or someone who came home from a war, will be different than someone > who works in a bank, and, with some exceptions, will probably speak from a > more authentic place. I'm assuming, of course, that they all have talent. If > you don't have different experiences than that of others, something unique > to say, why write? Or, why should I take the time to read what you've > written? > > -Joel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Haas Bianchi" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 2:19 PM > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > mary > > > > AMEN AMEN AMEN I am so tired of the ethic that says I am an academic I > live > > on grants I am being genuine and you who has a career, kid is selling out- > > very few poets in this country can support themselves on poetry- they have > > to do something else is being a comp professor any less of a sell out then > a > > Doctor or Banker > > > > R > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > > > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 1:47 PM > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > > > > > > Dalachinsky laughs when we differentiate art from living. Artists simply > > > express themselves, and their authenticity isn't determined by a > > > percentage. Since > > > when does quantity of creations or financial suffering/prosperity > > > define an > > > artist? Try raising a bunch of kids, let alone keep yourself > > > alive and still > > > survive to have enough brain left at the end of the day, enough to > create > > > anything. Ask di Prima, ask Creeley, different paths, but ask > > > anyone whose loved > > > ones and life itself are their muse. It's easy to be an artiste > > > or a christ or a > > > buddha if you don't have dependents. Like Vernon just said, you > > > can't write > > > posthumously.You slave until you can't take the bullshit any > > > longer, then you > > > break down, barely alive, and write a whole bunch until you have > > > to go back and > > > put on the chains again. It's very difficult to find the sane > > > daily balance of > > > sainthood and selfishness. Mary > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:07:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <001101c4d581$e7beb8b0$92fdfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I may add a thought to this discussion of businessman poets... Most of us seem to believe, to varying degrees, in the Romantic myth of the artist as separate from the rest of society. Some of us are actively trying to confront that mythology, even as it has seeped under our skin so deeply as to clog the success of our confrontation. But two things are missing: one is an acknowledgement of the two poems printed at the bottom of that original Chicago Tribune article, and the other is stock-taking of what the poet-execs said about the purposes of poetry. I for one thought Ted Kooser's poems were both quite good. They didn't achieve astounding greatness, and I'd probably be annoyed if Kooser were to get an NEA grant (let alone be named Poet Laureate), but there is nothing embarrassing about these poems at all. Just because they aren't exactly as edgy as my taste and style would like them to be, I can't deny that they are polished, professional (as opposed to amateur) pieces of work (by the way: could this be relevant to the discussion about whether rap is or isn't serious music? Rap and pop and Classical are different genres; is anything wrong with different genres of poetry being represented in different arenas?). And that in itself suggests that poets can survive within the alter-egos of businessmen. Whether Pritzker, Smith, or Fuller is as good, though, is another question, which gets us to the other point. That other point is about what these businessmen said about poetry: > > Execs say writing poetry helps improve their form Poet-executives > > fight stress, reclaim individuality, express emotions, gain > > stability and transform daily experiences in `strangely restorative' > > exercise As true as this must be, it doesn't get us beyond the high-school writing workshop idea of poetry. This is where we get the difference between poets and people who write poems. Being a poet requires a certain seriousness about poetry, and writing to fight stress doesn't cut it for me. Matter of fact, I say writing poetry adds as much stress as it relieves, because for every thought I'm not having about the world around me, I'm having another for the strength of the words I'm writing. I've never found writing poetry restorative at all, strangely or mundanely. But these two points commingle method and product. What matters most is product. We all have our own methods, which we're always bound to disagree upon, but what matters most is product. Whether you believe in 'first thought best thought' or 'the disillusion of the ego' or 'a trance-like state', what matters most is what comes out of the other end of the pen (or keyboard). What Stevens, Eliot, Williams, even Kooser, demonstrate is that a poet can have a day job as an executive or professional. Whether a poet should have such a career is a discussion about method, and is always at base individual and prejudicial, and doesn't amount to much more than a discussion of whether white people can sing the blues. Lucas -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 2:39 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: poetrying I want to end my participation in this thread by summing up my thoughts on this. To think that how you make your living, what you spend at least one-third of your day doing, and the people you spend that time with, doesn't effect your work, for better or for worse, is to be naive about how the human mind forms itself. This is not a value judgment, just an observation. There are people who can and do operate on several levels at once--T.S. Eliot and Wallace Stevens are two notable examples--, but they are the exceptions. There are always exceptions. But for the most part, as Maurice Merleau-Ponty pointed out, one lives the life one must live in order to do the work one must do. I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how varied, how far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at that point will be telling of the life you've lived. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 4:43 PM Subject: Re: poetrying > How about a con man? Or a bank robber? A hired killer? There are choices as > to how you make your living, how you live your life, and this effects what > you write, and what you have to say. The work of someone who lives on the > street, or someone who came home from a war, will be different than someone > who works in a bank, and, with some exceptions, will probably speak from a > more authentic place. I'm assuming, of course, that they all have talent. If > you don't have different experiences than that of others, something unique > to say, why write? Or, why should I take the time to read what you've > written? > > -Joel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Haas Bianchi" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 2:19 PM > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > mary > > > > AMEN AMEN AMEN I am so tired of the ethic that says I am an academic I > live > > on grants I am being genuine and you who has a career, kid is selling out- > > very few poets in this country can support themselves on poetry- they have > > to do something else is being a comp professor any less of a sell out then > a > > Doctor or Banker > > > > R > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > > > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 1:47 PM > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > > > > > > Dalachinsky laughs when we differentiate art from living. Artists simply > > > express themselves, and their authenticity isn't determined by a > > > percentage. Since > > > when does quantity of creations or financial suffering/prosperity > > > define an > > > artist? Try raising a bunch of kids, let alone keep yourself > > > alive and still > > > survive to have enough brain left at the end of the day, enough to > create > > > anything. Ask di Prima, ask Creeley, different paths, but ask > > > anyone whose loved > > > ones and life itself are their muse. It's easy to be an artiste > > > or a christ or a > > > buddha if you don't have dependents. Like Vernon just said, you > > > can't write > > > posthumously.You slave until you can't take the bullshit any > > > longer, then you > > > break down, barely alive, and write a whole bunch until you have > > > to go back and > > > put on the chains again. It's very difficult to find the sane > > > daily balance of > > > sainthood and selfishness. Mary > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:04:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <001101c4d581$e7beb8b0$92fdfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that the issue is how much life have you accumulated. Poetry, Painting, Sculpture, Art in general is not work it is a vocation a calling. I believe that people who have had rich diverse lives and who continue to be engaged on many levels can produce good art and good poetry and make time for that. I believe that people who spend all their time "creating" and are not engaged in society, politics, family other work are not fully human and create poetry that is less than. I recently interviewed Regis Bonvicino the great Brazilian poet and he is a judge and poet and he chastises American poets for not being political and not being engaged in the basics of society poets in other nations are politicians for example Dominique de Villpian in France was Foreign Minister and a Poet. Neruda was a diplomat and a poet et cetera they did a nice job one their poetry no? What I say to young poets is dont write anything- get out there and live. In my 20's I worked and lived overseas, I put myself on the line as a volunteer in very hard circumstances and this life honing experience made me a better and richer human being, in the spiritual sense of the word. I say LIVE LIVE LIVE poetry will come- If you want to be a poet, be a poet, but the canvas in which you paint your life is essential all of it paying bills, working in business, travelling, seeing the world as it is and growing as a person dont let your desire the be "genuine" to not "Sell out" keep you from living life and sucking the marrow out of its bones. Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:39 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > I want to end my participation in this thread by summing up my thoughts on > this. > To think that how you make your living, what you spend at least one-third > of your day doing, and the people you spend that time with, doesn't effect > your work, for better or for worse, is to be naive about how the > human mind > forms itself. This is not a value judgment, just an observation. There are > people who can and do operate on several levels at once--T.S. Eliot and > Wallace Stevens are two notable examples--, but they are the exceptions. > There are always exceptions. But for the most part, as Maurice > Merleau-Ponty > pointed out, one lives the life one must live in order to do the work one > must do. > > I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your > life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how > varied, how > far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it > develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at that > point will be telling of the life you've lived. > > -Joel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joel Weishaus" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 4:43 PM > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > How about a con man? Or a bank robber? A hired killer? There are choices > as > > to how you make your living, how you live your life, and this > effects what > > you write, and what you have to say. The work of someone who > lives on the > > street, or someone who came home from a war, will be different than > someone > > who works in a bank, and, with some exceptions, will probably > speak from a > > more authentic place. I'm assuming, of course, that they all > have talent. > If > > you don't have different experiences than that of others, > something unique > > to say, why write? Or, why should I take the time to read what you've > > written? > > > > -Joel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Haas Bianchi" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 2:19 PM > > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > > > > mary > > > > > > AMEN AMEN AMEN I am so tired of the ethic that says I am an academic I > > live > > > on grants I am being genuine and you who has a career, kid is selling > out- > > > very few poets in this country can support themselves on poetry- they > have > > > to do something else is being a comp professor any less of a sell out > then > > a > > > Doctor or Banker > > > > > > R > > > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > > > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > > > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 1:47 PM > > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > > > > > > > > > Dalachinsky laughs when we differentiate art from living. Artists > simply > > > > express themselves, and their authenticity isn't determined by a > > > > percentage. Since > > > > when does quantity of creations or financial suffering/prosperity > > > > define an > > > > artist? Try raising a bunch of kids, let alone keep yourself > > > > alive and still > > > > survive to have enough brain left at the end of the day, enough to > > create > > > > anything. Ask di Prima, ask Creeley, different paths, but ask > > > > anyone whose loved > > > > ones and life itself are their muse. It's easy to be an artiste > > > > or a christ or a > > > > buddha if you don't have dependents. Like Vernon just said, you > > > > can't write > > > > posthumously.You slave until you can't take the bullshit any > > > > longer, then you > > > > break down, barely alive, and write a whole bunch until you have > > > > to go back and > > > > put on the chains again. It's very difficult to find the sane > > > > daily balance of > > > > sainthood and selfishness. Mary > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:26:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <001101c4d581$e7beb8b0$92fdfc83@Weishaus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel, before you hangup on this thread, what differentiates between a young poet & a mature poet? I think of myself as a young poet tho I've been writing, publishing & editing since the mid 70s, & I still seem to have an adverse reaction to thinking of myself as a mature poet which I read to mean ossified tho Im pretty sure you're meaning it in a whole other way. mIEKAL On Sunday, November 28, 2004, at 01:38 PM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your > life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how > varied, how > far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it > develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at > that > point will be telling of the life you've lived. > > -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:32:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <001101c4d581$e7beb8b0$92fdfc83@Weishaus> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 28-Nov-04, at 11:38 AM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > To think that how you make your living, what you spend at least > one-third > of your day doing, and the people you spend that time with, doesn't > effect > your work, for better or for worse, is to be naive about how the human > mind > forms itself. That is, I am afraid, an absurd statement. You effect poetry by writing it. It is not effected by a set of circumstances affecting your life. > This is not a value judgment, just an observation. There are > people who can and do operate on several levels at once--T.S. Eliot and > Wallace Stevens are two notable examples-- And William Carlos Williams, and John Keats, and Louis Zukofsky, and Raymond Souster and Lorine Niedecker > > I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your > life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how > varied, how > far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it > develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at > that > point will be telling of the life you've lived. So, listen, if you have a dull job, you can forget ever writing interesting poetry, you poor things. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:43:57 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: query Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT wondering if anyone has suggestions of contemporary artists, fiction writers, poets, etcetera (Canadian & American) who are adopted, for a potential essay. already have a very short list of writers (and needing lots more), but would like to expand to visual artists & Americans as well: Lynn Coady, Anne Stone, Wayde Compton, Una McDonnell, Diane Tucker (& me, too). suggestions? rob mclennan -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 07:42:53 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Nawal Saadawi Comments: To: Poetryetc , Poneme , Wompo Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From Juan Cole's blog http://www.juancole.com/ Supporting Nawal Saadawi Al-Hayat on Saturday ran an attack from a Muslim fundamentalist point of view on Egyptian novelist Nawal Saadawi. She recently argued that children should all receive hyphenated last names, from both the mother's and the father's side, instead of only the last name of the father. She said that this method would allow families to acknowledge the equal contribution of each parent to the child. The Al-Hayat article ridiculed and attacked Saadawi. It quoted Shaikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi at length on how here suggestion is contrary to Islamic law (though al-Qaradawi did not actually demonstrate this allegation, and most of his points were just the ramblings of a male chauvinist. Al-Qaradawi is an elderly, old-time Muslim Brotherhood activist now settled in Qatar. He can sometimes be unconventional, but not on issues like this. The the article quoted Camillia Hilmi, a woman Muslim fundamentalist who is Phyllis Schlafly's Arab twin. She went on at length about how there is a wicked feminist cabal in the West that hates men and wants to exterminate them so that women can rule the world. She also accused them of tampering with the New Testament, so as to make God a woman in their text. She said that unfortunately, this feminist cabal dominated the committees of the United Nations. She then complained that Saadawi has fallen under their malevolent influence. Saadawi has long been a target of Egyptian Muslim fundamentalists, and even made the secular government of Anwar El Sadat nervous enough to arrest her. She wrote a novel about Sadat, The Fall of the Imam . It enraged the religious right in Egypt. The Al-Azhar Seminary has recently started a campaign to have it formally banned by the Egyptian government. Please sign the letter of solidarity for Nawal Saadawi on the Web. Best to go to Juan Cole's blog http://www.juancole.com/ and scroll down until you find this piece - the url is peculiar Best to all A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:47:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Miekal: It doesn't so much have to do with age as with having gone through the process of mimesis, which students must do, and arriving at what is uniquely you. In this sense, most poets never mature, and so we see that most poetry looks and sounds alike. On the other hand, some mature early--Gary Snyder, Robert Creeley, come quickly to mind. And if one's work reaches maturity, this is when, as with satori, the real work begins.It is the opposite of ossification, but an expansive release of creative energy from an experiential base, one that may last a lifetime. Thus, Michelangelo was doing his most mature, innovative carving in his 80s. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:26 PM Subject: Re: poetrying > Joel, before you hangup on this thread, what differentiates between a > young poet & a mature poet? I think of myself as a young poet tho I've > been writing, publishing & editing since the mid 70s, & I still seem to > have an adverse reaction to thinking of myself as a mature poet which I > read to mean ossified tho Im pretty sure you're meaning it in a whole > other way. > > mIEKAL > > On Sunday, November 28, 2004, at 01:38 PM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > > > > I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your > > life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how > > varied, how > > far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it > > develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at > > that > > point will be telling of the life you've lived. > > > > -Joel > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:01:05 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: existential poetrying & posthumourous writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel, I'm a secular existentialist, and considering that, you could never define nor decide for me the difference between art and living. Of course, that's not going to stop anyone and everyone from trying to pontificate thusly. Poetry, personal philosophy, and how one 'executes' their lives are inseparable. When poetrying, we take from the bits and pieces of our integrated (or maybe not so much) self and create. If my life is a living hell of meaningless or possibly unethical labor, who more than I to write of such misery? It's the height of philosophical hubris to assume that an individual's creative work can be polluted by occupation. Of course, there may be exceptions, like a professional assassin, but even then who better to explain to us her individual angst. I jest. But don't go there with ethics. Ethics aren't even definable in the absence of proven truth. We decide for ourselves. A job is a job and art is art and sometimes the twain does meet, but only in the Being not the Nothing. In the nothing you can't write posthumously - great stuff Vernon. What great links to put ego and vanity in perspective. In the end we end up anonymous and anthologized, if we're lucky. Mary ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:11:22 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <9DB7339C-417C-11D9-B185-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 29/11/04 7:32 AM, "George Bowering" wrote: > So, listen, if you have a dull job, you can forget ever writing > interesting > poetry, you poor things. This made me laugh, George. It applies in spades to women - with that attitude goes the idea that, say, women who do such anerotic things as looking after children can't write interetsing poems (such things have been said to me, so I know some people think that way). Surely Emily D hardly had an interesting life? Writers very often lead dull lives. They're writers, for godsake. It's not exactly a spectator sport. As you say, you effect poetry by writing it. Best A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:31:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <001001c4d58b$7b75e1b0$84fdfc83@Weishaus> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I was disturbed to learn that a well-known critic of innovative poetry has been quoted as pointing out that if "You do not make it as a poet by your 40's you will not make it at all." What might this critic have meant by that? Nick Piombino On 11/28/04 3:47 PM, "Joel Weishaus" wrote: > Hey Miekal: > > It doesn't so much have to do with age as with having gone through the > process of mimesis, which students must do, and arriving at what is uniquely > you. In this sense, most poets never mature, and so we see that most poetry > looks and sounds alike. On the other hand, some mature early--Gary Snyder, > Robert Creeley, come quickly to mind. And if one's work reaches maturity, > this is when, as with satori, the real work begins.It is the opposite of > ossification, but an expansive release of creative energy from an > experiential base, one that may last a lifetime. Thus, Michelangelo was > doing his most mature, innovative carving in his 80s. > > > -Joel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mIEKAL aND" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: poetrying > > >> Joel, before you hangup on this thread, what differentiates between a >> young poet & a mature poet? I think of myself as a young poet tho I've >> been writing, publishing & editing since the mid 70s, & I still seem to >> have an adverse reaction to thinking of myself as a mature poet which I >> read to mean ossified tho Im pretty sure you're meaning it in a whole >> other way. >> >> mIEKAL >> >> On Sunday, November 28, 2004, at 01:38 PM, Joel Weishaus wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your >>> life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how >>> varied, how >>> far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it >>> develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at >>> that >>> point will be telling of the life you've lived. >>> >>> -Joel >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:09:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <9DB7339C-417C-11D9-B185-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed George: When I began years ago my training as a therapist I realized that I was being taught not just a set of skills but a stance towards life lived within and without. Those who never leave school may not realize this--the extent to which they've been acculturated by that environment. I know I hadn't in all the prior years of education and university work. It did change the way I write--why not? it changed the way I did everything else--altho I think I've written all of four poems that treat the material of doing therapy directly. Or is making things with language uniquely separate from the investigations we all make in navigating the language of daily life? I would agree that to say that only the exceptional can incorporate the way one has been changed by working in a bank is way over into overstatement, if not absurdity. But I understand where Joel is coming from. In an environment in which being a banker/poet is as far out on an experiential edge as being a hobo/poet the risk is rather in the monoculture that poetry can become when the daily lives of poets tend to be about the tilling of any one field, even academia, because it's known and appears to be less risky than lives led outside the class or cultural norm. Risk-free poetry produced by risk-averse poets is the last thing we need. The distribution of talent is never democratic, but the poetry of those not endowed with an unusual amount of it needn't be as crashingly boring as most of what seems to be being produced, in every camp, has become. OK, time for my meds. Mark At 03:32 PM 11/28/2004, you wrote: >On 28-Nov-04, at 11:38 AM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > >>To think that how you make your living, what you spend at least >>one-third >>of your day doing, and the people you spend that time with, doesn't >>effect >>your work, for better or for worse, is to be naive about how the human >>mind >>forms itself. > >That is, I am afraid, an absurd statement. You effect poetry by writing >it. >It is not effected by a set of circumstances affecting your life. > >> This is not a value judgment, just an observation. There are >>people who can and do operate on several levels at once--T.S. Eliot and >>Wallace Stevens are two notable examples-- > >And William Carlos Williams, and John Keats, and Louis Zukofsky, and >Raymond Souster >and Lorine Niedecker > >>I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your >>life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how >>varied, how >>far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it >>develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at >>that >>point will be telling of the life you've lived. > >So, listen, if you have a dull job, you can forget ever writing >interesting >poetry, you poor things. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 23:18:21 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: isbn 82-92428-08-9 Subject: The backwords Comments: To: wryting , "arc.hive" Comments: cc: wreathus , noemata-g MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Doom Sharon roses, or a sanitary rat Tart Rat. Tarzan raised under a void, Ararat sable; Elba sun unusable. Elba tire, vast, pure Boston did it as ruse! Cain! Lied imite la pal Lass! Like this is Signa te, å nesten etse nået Ted Robert up snug. Eva, can I damn Madonna LP Planar? an air emus Sums are not smart trap a cadet, Alf; nine men indite yonder. Red: Now one podded, dope no waste, grab a mort-ne des bots. Rivez! Les Etna de sec salamalec? Elucider. Ion No, stiff foe, race to senilefatso? Lemon, Edna, Hannah, and Edna Me like a plan, a top, a gnu Unremarkable was I pilfer Isa's. Alas no manual entry for: rofyrtnelaunamon No longer Regal Lew said, and was Mel Gibson is noted actor. Rot-cod, doctor! Rot-corpse Sumatran art sournois: si, farcis-toi dito le maximum Escale d'os. Back Ramsey Yes, Mark, cable to manipulate metal prop acts as in my Ned got Allen tore Erupt at six/ Noel on a more work Row. Wot? No one: E.! No, son! No-ones oppose Lagos! So none man it's. Space caps Spare us! Sue, reverse Ebony's Reverse Lagos! So did Ada Ada Ada did I, no bees, abed stun! Nutshell eh Tom? Mother Eve's Word Drown, word Row. Wot? To Id: dirac (solo), Sara. Pasta, Ellen? Nell i wed a tidal gnu have Eva, hot dog doo! Damn a top. Pot? No, too wispily, Sordid rosy lissom detail of Fobos, sob mud. Dump million one erg! Greta? Education? No, it Tip an irate tar a maid named 'DeMan Million one man up a yam? May root: a regular, a cave! Eva, can I pull up Purist-sirup Pus upward, Eli. Can't you, though, said a cad! Eva raved, Eva rips a cave? Eva, can I damn mad! Damosel, a camel appals. Slap, strap red is a papa A bar O'Noel. Didn't come Donna Melba, I'm Not slip up, for cyanide! Edit peptide Editor Rotor Roy went Oh! Howdy, Madam, I'm Evil to nets, ah, a bay, a frog irks - assail, alienating Nita. I tam vergile Gud Dubya won? Cave canem (car ce lot! Si, medicinale, l'autre Other acts. A namorada do baste pets rats, tao, but one leg nailed Delia, here we fastened under a bed. Deb's Lid lamp fire wolfed! So pert in a fast ion No, carajo! Me tied an atom, a rod ass if Ada won. No Devil lived on no Puck, cuts stuck cup on it! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 23:19:54 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: isbn 82-92428-08-9 Subject: delusion Comments: To: wryting , "arc.hive" Comments: cc: wreathus , noemata-g MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" antinomy of secure bottle ruins error of insensible craunch rear procrusteanize of feelingly hydra ruins rule of abhorrence oenanthylic undoer discreet of insensible procrusteanize of feelingly attest delusion of anaesthetize craunch commodore delusion ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:40:43 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: poetrying Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having had my first book published at the age of 48 I guess I just crawled under the wire...I don't know who made the comment but I can imagine who might have *and might yet)... -----Original Message----- From: Nick Piombino Sent: Nov 28, 2004 4:31 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: poetrying I was disturbed to learn that a well-known critic of innovative poetry has been quoted as pointing out that if "You do not make it as a poet by your 40's you will not make it at all." What might this critic have meant by that? Nick Piombino On 11/28/04 3:47 PM, "Joel Weishaus" wrote: > Hey Miekal: > > It doesn't so much have to do with age as with having gone through the > process of mimesis, which students must do, and arriving at what is uniquely > you. In this sense, most poets never mature, and so we see that most poetry > looks and sounds alike. On the other hand, some mature early--Gary Snyder, > Robert Creeley, come quickly to mind. And if one's work reaches maturity, > this is when, as with satori, the real work begins.It is the opposite of > ossification, but an expansive release of creative energy from an > experiential base, one that may last a lifetime. Thus, Michelangelo was > doing his most mature, innovative carving in his 80s. > > > -Joel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mIEKAL aND" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: poetrying > > >> Joel, before you hangup on this thread, what differentiates between a >> young poet & a mature poet? I think of myself as a young poet tho I've >> been writing, publishing & editing since the mid 70s, & I still seem to >> have an adverse reaction to thinking of myself as a mature poet which I >> read to mean ossified tho Im pretty sure you're meaning it in a whole >> other way. >> >> mIEKAL >> >> On Sunday, November 28, 2004, at 01:38 PM, Joel Weishaus wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your >>> life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how >>> varied, how >>> far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it >>> develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at >>> that >>> point will be telling of the life you've lived. >>> >>> -Joel >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:22:47 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: poetrying "The word is skrewed..." Tina Darragh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that might apply to chess player or a tennis player but not to poetry or other literature or as we know art (Grandma Moses) - and alot of poiets were dead for hundreds of years before they were "discovered" ..and so on... It makes no diff. what one does in life - but certainly one needs to live and we all fodo taht so we are all in differentwasy equiped to write and of course reading is essential (as wide and deep as extensicve and intense as possible) - although the NZ "street poet" who sells poems he has written on silver-backed cardbord fro $5 each writes simple but sometimes beayutifulnpoems and I wonce said to him - "You dont know muchof literature etc do you?" and he replied, quite unabashed: - "Yes - I am illiterate" But we all know people like Kendrick Sithyman (NZ) Ron Silliman, Piert van Taubmann and Stein and Pound etc and many have read various of the classics and the modern critcis and philosphers etc but not my friend the "Street Poet" (Noodle String he calls himself - he is a very tall Australian fellow as it happens): ho! I say ho! Good on us all ! - We are all skinning poetic-cats in different ways. "The word is skrewed, skewed, bent back on itself in a gorgeous torsion to tremblingness: and in that dialectical division leading to ferment, a terrible but pale light causes us to fixate on the [subconscious] E sign that - like a 'possible-tron' - vanishes before we can think on it." Tina Darragh (on Derrida and Jacobson etc). Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "tyrone williams" To: Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 11:40 AM Subject: Re: poetrying > Having had my first book published at the age of 48 I guess I just crawled under the wire...I don't know who made the comment but I can imagine who might have *and might yet)... > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Piombino > Sent: Nov 28, 2004 4:31 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: poetrying > > I was disturbed to learn that a well-known > critic of innovative poetry has been quoted > as pointing out that if "You do not make it as a poet by > your 40's you will not make it at all." > > What might this critic have meant by that? > > Nick Piombino > > > > On 11/28/04 3:47 PM, "Joel Weishaus" wrote: > > > Hey Miekal: > > > > It doesn't so much have to do with age as with having gone through the > > process of mimesis, which students must do, and arriving at what is uniquely > > you. In this sense, most poets never mature, and so we see that most poetry > > looks and sounds alike. On the other hand, some mature early--Gary Snyder, > > Robert Creeley, come quickly to mind. And if one's work reaches maturity, > > this is when, as with satori, the real work begins.It is the opposite of > > ossification, but an expansive release of creative energy from an > > experiential base, one that may last a lifetime. Thus, Michelangelo was > > doing his most mature, innovative carving in his 80s. > > > > > > -Joel > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "mIEKAL aND" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:26 PM > > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > > >> Joel, before you hangup on this thread, what differentiates between a > >> young poet & a mature poet? I think of myself as a young poet tho I've > >> been writing, publishing & editing since the mid 70s, & I still seem to > >> have an adverse reaction to thinking of myself as a mature poet which I > >> read to mean ossified tho Im pretty sure you're meaning it in a whole > >> other way. > >> > >> mIEKAL > >> > >> On Sunday, November 28, 2004, at 01:38 PM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your > >>> life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how > >>> varied, how > >>> far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it > >>> develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at > >>> that > >>> point will be telling of the life you've lived. > >>> > >>> -Joel > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:39:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I was once told that Marjorie Perloff had said this to him. I did not take it seriously. I figured that this is just another occasional instance of MP making a whacky, imperious self-serving, statement. I can't see that it serves anybody else. At best - to look on the good side -it's perhaps a productive taunt from a significant and important critic for everyone to try harder and prove her statement wrong. I also suspect the next several posts will provide much evidence already proving the statement to be empty headed. (This is without going into - or wanting to go into what constitutes the sometimes - at least what I consider dubious - characteristics of some poets who are considered to have publicly "made it.") Another part of the problem raised here is that poetry at the "assigned" margins - if we say the public center is represented in last weeks NY Times Book Review Poetry issue - currently has no other major critic than Perloff to counter and question her claims. It seems true to me - with some exceptions - the poets who have been critically celebrated by her become publicly quiet at the wheel when she goes off the hook with some of her statements. Given the poverty of critical attention, I understand the apprehension. But gosh, it must be privately infuriating. Which is to say, finally, that the 'age statement' can only be genuinely contested by new, and equally fierce critics. Undoubtedly there are new ones rising to the fore. I think that will help keep Perlhoff honest and interesting, too. I am sure she would not take it kindly, for example, if some young upstart declares that no critic over sixty has ever written anything new or interesting and that it's all over "for them."! Back to writing, I say, and with compassion to all! Stephen Vincent Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > I was disturbed to learn that a well-known > critic of innovative poetry has been quoted > as pointing out that if "You do not make it as a poet by > your 40's you will not make it at all." > > What might this critic have meant by that? > > Nick Piombino > > > > On 11/28/04 3:47 PM, "Joel Weishaus" wrote: > >> Hey Miekal: >> >> It doesn't so much have to do with age as with having gone through the >> process of mimesis, which students must do, and arriving at what is uniquely >> you. In this sense, most poets never mature, and so we see that most poetry >> looks and sounds alike. On the other hand, some mature early--Gary Snyder, >> Robert Creeley, come quickly to mind. And if one's work reaches maturity, >> this is when, as with satori, the real work begins.It is the opposite of >> ossification, but an expansive release of creative energy from an >> experiential base, one that may last a lifetime. Thus, Michelangelo was >> doing his most mature, innovative carving in his 80s. >> >> >> -Joel >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "mIEKAL aND" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:26 PM >> Subject: Re: poetrying >> >> >>> Joel, before you hangup on this thread, what differentiates between a >>> young poet & a mature poet? I think of myself as a young poet tho I've >>> been writing, publishing & editing since the mid 70s, & I still seem to >>> have an adverse reaction to thinking of myself as a mature poet which I >>> read to mean ossified tho Im pretty sure you're meaning it in a whole >>> other way. >>> >>> mIEKAL >>> >>> On Sunday, November 28, 2004, at 01:38 PM, Joel Weishaus wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your >>>> life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how >>>> varied, how >>>> far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it >>>> develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at >>>> that >>>> point will be telling of the life you've lived. >>>> >>>> -Joel >>> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:13:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Krick Subject: Kit Robinson EPC Page Comments: cc: Charles Bernstein MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The Electronic Poetry Center is pleased to announce the posting of its Kit Robinson page: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/robinson/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:31:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20041128165402.04e45db0@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mark Weiss' recent post is of particular interest to me for a number of reasons. I was an English major in college, an honors student, but I decided, even though I respected and admired most of the professors I was working with immensely, I could not proceed with a career in academia. I went into therapy, and later also became a therapist, and a psychoanalyst, while continuing to remain a participant in contemporary literature, to the extent I could find the time and inclination. One concern that I have written about many times, on this list and elsewhere- and in many of my poems- which I chose to call instead "theoretical objects"- is the danger of "pretentiousness" both in poetry and the poetry life. It seems to me one risk that occurs with those who are frequently listened to, whose words are carefully thought about, and eventually celebrated, at least by some other poets, is a tendency towards taking their hierarchical status- within the halls of letters, so to speak- a bit too--what shall I say?--portentously, perhaps. Even when I was a young, inexperienced college student, I could sense that the frequently encountered quality of didactic intoning, one might call it, masked a conscientiously concealed, but nonetheless obvious weariness with the texts that they were concerned-and charged- with protecting, preserving, praising and interpreting. None dare call it boredom! Clearly, a therapist no doubt faces some parallel risks and tendencies. The frequently praised writings of the British psychoanalyst Adam Phillips strike me as crashingly boring, as I experienced most of the (translated, enigmatic) writing of the celebrated Jacques Lacan decades ago; though I frequently enjoyed work by writers who claimed to be influenced by his work. This leads into the final words in Mark Weiss' statement: his ideas about why certain poems are "boring." Though continuous efforts are made in the halls of literature to separate, isolate and elevate the wheat from the chaff, it seems to me that the constant efforts of this very process puts the focus on the food critics instead of the food, on the gourmet aspect rather than the aspect of nutrition, so to speak. It seems to me that when so many are starving for what poets and poetry have to offer, clearly, in most cases without knowing it, that the challenge is to define those issues, the "resistances", so to speak, to the effects or goals of poetry, rather than blame the quality of the poetry being written; or turn to the "market" analyses of the professional critics. The common enemy of the kind of persons interested in poetry, it seems to me, is superficiality, not lack of entertainment satisfaction or the assurance of being in the presence of proven greatness. I think what makes the "career" of poetry so wearying is not the writing of the poetry, or even having to support it by other means than the activities of literature, or dealing with its reception, or lack thereof, but the hierarchical attitudes within the field of poetry itself. I once asked Ed Friedman,when he was still the Artistic Director of the Poetry Project, if the PP might sponsor a seminar on the topic of the "Career of the Poet." His answer was that he viewed poetry as a "calling" not a career. Virtually every serious, lifelong practicing poet has more in common with other poets than differences, whatever kind of poetry they write and however their work has been received. Most of the disagreements and failure to cooperate stems form how the activities and products of this field are regarded, it seems to me, on the whole, outside the field of literature. The problem is that most poets then tend to take out those feelings, the results of those issues, on others within the field, since nobody else seems to care, instead of confronting them and overcoming them together. Some of this is worked on by a few, very conscientiously. I will pick on Bob Holman, as an excellent example of a person who has spent his life trying to do something constructive about all this, rather than complain about it so much the way I tend to. So maybe one thing to do about all this is to go to the Bowery Poetry Club as often as possible! [I'm somewhat kidding, of course, since readings and the issues surrounding readings are only one important aspect of the field]. Nick Piombino On 11/28/04 5:09 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > George: When I began years ago my training as a therapist I realized that I > was being taught not just a set of skills but a stance towards life lived > within and without. Those who never leave school may not realize this--the > extent to which they've been acculturated by that environment. I know I > hadn't in all the prior years of education and university work. It did > change the way I write--why not? it changed the way I did everything > else--altho I think I've written all of four poems that treat the material > of doing therapy directly. > > Or is making things with language uniquely separate from the investigations > we all make in navigating the language of daily life? > > I would agree that to say that only the exceptional can incorporate the way > one has been changed by working in a bank is way over into overstatement, > if not absurdity. But I understand where Joel is coming from. In an > environment in which being a banker/poet is as far out on an experiential > edge as being a hobo/poet the risk is rather in the monoculture that poetry > can become when the daily lives of poets tend to be about the tilling of > any one field, even academia, because it's known and appears to be less > risky than lives led outside the class or cultural norm. > > Risk-free poetry produced by risk-averse poets is the last thing we need. > The distribution of talent is never democratic, but the poetry of those not > endowed with an unusual amount of it needn't be as crashingly boring as > most of what seems to be being produced, in every camp, has become. > > OK, time for my meds. > > Mark > > > At 03:32 PM 11/28/2004, you wrote: >> On 28-Nov-04, at 11:38 AM, Joel Weishaus wrote: >> >>> To think that how you make your living, what you spend at least >>> one-third >>> of your day doing, and the people you spend that time with, doesn't >>> effect >>> your work, for better or for worse, is to be naive about how the human >>> mind >>> forms itself. >> >> That is, I am afraid, an absurd statement. You effect poetry by writing >> it. >> It is not effected by a set of circumstances affecting your life. >> >>> This is not a value judgment, just an observation. There are >>> people who can and do operate on several levels at once--T.S. Eliot and >>> Wallace Stevens are two notable examples-- >> >> And William Carlos Williams, and John Keats, and Louis Zukofsky, and >> Raymond Souster >> and Lorine Niedecker >> >>> I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your >>> life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how >>> varied, how >>> far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it >>> develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at >>> that >>> point will be telling of the life you've lived. >> >> So, listen, if you have a dull job, you can forget ever writing >> interesting >> poetry, you poor things. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:34:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This person's pronouncement could affect me in major ways. I didn't start writing poetry seriously until I was 36, after 21 years of writing fiction. I was 47 when I first performed at the Nuyorican, 55 when I read at the Poetry Project and people started reading my work online. I could have died from Cancer between ages 23 and 28. So, either by this person's standards I'm lining up to make my run for the Archie Moore or George Foreman of contemporary poetry or ---damn! --- maybe I AM writing posthumously. Vernon - ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:57:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: maxpaul@SFSU.EDU Subject: NAW Ideas for Holiday Season MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear List Members and Friends of List Members: New American Writing 1-21 is $4 an issue until Jan 1. To check what each contains, go to www.newamericanwriting.com. To order, send checks to NAW, 369 Molino Avenue, Mill Valley CA 94941. If you would like the current issue, it is $10. Subscriptions are $27 for 3 issues. If you'd like to pay by credit card, there are instructions online, but the discount offer for 1-21 is only available through us by check. Maxine Chernoff ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:06:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From a female (former and hopefully future) manager's perspective, I would like to make this discussion so very much more complex than it is now, somehow. There is so much play between "like it should be" according to so many "them" and how one knows it has to be for oneself. Early in what became my first career (and is unfortunately looking like it will be my second career), I did look to poets like Eliot (Pound "saved" him from the bank / himself), Williams, et.al. I did feel that by having a day job, I was broadening my experience. Also, while being a female technologist was a day in day out blow to self confidence, the paychecks were a nice counterbalance to what sometimes feels like constant utter writing failure. The same argument (the experience is good for you, makes you better, more, etc.) is made for children as is made for "real jobs". That you can never know what it is like to -- blah blah -- that are you really human if you don't -- etc etc -- that you're not participating in the larger society -- and I think that got mentioned here in a small way. Maybe it should be mentioned in a big way. I feel the societal and familial pressure for a woman -- me, any woman -- to have children, followed by the lack of value placed on mothers and children in the same society -- is the same sort of pressure that bears on poet / career, poet / artist, and artist / money situations. Blatant and outrageous misunderstanding of what it is to work and write is everywhere. I don't pretend I would be a poet who would visit a shopping mall like I would visit Mars. But -- why are sitcoms so not funny? Why do most broad comedies not elicit laughter (except for the schtick?)? Why is Billy Collins dull? (though I do find the Victoria Secret discomfiting)? Many of these stories sell something (via product placement), but they also sell something by their situation, through their story. So they are extraordinarily dull if you're outside the situation / audience / market. While I'd love to slag Jim Belushi, sitcoms aren't funny because they're selling stereotypes very seriously. And that is not funny. For the same reason, I cringe whenever W makes a joke about making / not making his wife do public speaking followed by the sure dry chuckle it elicits from his audience. I waste a lot of time worrying that my detailed knowledge about luxury objects is evil. But I DO write a great deal about them. I DO have a nearly-book-length project having to do with cooking... and the fashion designer poems in Da3 are a blend of criticism about the designs and writings / quotes from the designers. All best, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:50:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <001901c51dfa$e96c5e30$220110ac@CADALY> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You seem to be speaking from both sides of the issue, which certainly makes things more complex. My own part of this discussion was more about the health of poetry than about the health of individual poets. The problem, it seems to me, is the similarity of experience that the institutionalization of poetry has led to. Let's for a moment imagine Milton without his day job or in a parsonage like Herrick. He wrote some pretty wonderful poetry before taking on his political role, but Lycidas, which marks the decision to do so, is I think the best of the early work, and his day job gave us Paradise Lost, among a great deal else the best political poem in the language. Tho the job kept him away from verse for a decade. Behind this discussion is I think another. I take George Bowering's statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. It is not effected by a set of circumstances affecting your life" as expressing an extreme aestheticist position. Sure, you have to decide to write it in order to write, a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition. But that's not the whole of it. Unless a poem is just "a machine made of words" (an aestheticist pronouncement by one of the most engaged of poets) experience matters--having in whatever sense decided to write one writes out of the breadth of who we are, and that breadth (or narrowness) of being is expressed in everything we write, regardless of intention. Otherwise we risk being about as interesting as crossword puzzles, which are also machines made of words. Mark At 08:06 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote: > From a female (former and hopefully future) manager's perspective, I >would like to make this discussion so very much more complex than it is >now, somehow. There is so much play between "like it should be" >according to so many "them" and how one knows it has to be for oneself. > > >Early in what became my first career (and is unfortunately looking like >it will be my second career), I did look to poets like Eliot (Pound >"saved" him from the bank / himself), Williams, et.al. I did feel that >by having a day job, I was broadening my experience. Also, while being >a female technologist was a day in day out blow to self confidence, the >paychecks were a nice counterbalance to what sometimes feels like >constant utter writing failure. > >The same argument (the experience is good for you, makes you better, >more, etc.) is made for children as is made for "real jobs". That you >can never know what it is like to -- blah blah -- that are you really >human if you don't -- etc etc -- that you're not participating in the >larger society -- and I think that got mentioned here in a small way. >Maybe it should be mentioned in a big way. I feel the societal and >familial pressure for a woman -- me, any woman -- to have children, >followed by the lack of value placed on mothers and children in the same >society -- is the same sort of pressure that bears on poet / career, >poet / artist, and artist / money situations. Blatant and outrageous >misunderstanding of what it is to work and write is everywhere. > >I don't pretend I would be a poet who would visit a shopping mall like I >would visit Mars. But -- why are sitcoms so not funny? Why do most >broad comedies not elicit laughter (except for the schtick?)? Why is >Billy Collins dull? (though I do find the Victoria Secret >discomfiting)? Many of these stories sell something (via product >placement), but they also sell something by their situation, through >their story. So they are extraordinarily dull if you're outside the >situation / audience / market. While I'd love to slag Jim Belushi, >sitcoms aren't funny because they're selling stereotypes very seriously. >And that is not funny. For the same reason, I cringe whenever W makes a >joke about making / not making his wife do public speaking followed by >the sure dry chuckle it elicits from his audience. > >I waste a lot of time worrying that my detailed knowledge about luxury >objects is evil. But I DO write a great deal about them. I DO have a >nearly-book-length project having to do with cooking... and the fashion >designer poems in Da3 are a blend of criticism about the designs and >writings / quotes from the designers. > >All best, >Catherine Daly >cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 18:36:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Decoding / Loyal Band of Ignorant Followers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Image: www.august-highland.com/quasistatic.html Text: mixes easily in shakes,*, through window! Ages actual occurrences -, can be installed in front left chest, from SS-icon mixes easily in shakes,*, through window! 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Wallpaper is from ear to ear August Highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:35:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: reading Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed for all within spitting distance of Columbus: 11/29/04 a performance of poetry for The Poetry Forum at Larry's Larry's Bar, 2040 N. High Street (corner Woodruff), COlumbus 7pm cris cheek and KEITH TUMA followed by open mic ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:35:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: 4 new pieces from RiP by Nico Vassilakis Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's 4 new pieces by Nico Vassilakis have arrived at SPIDERTANGLE the_book from RiP: #2 http://spidertangle.net/the_book/vassilakis2.html from RiP: #5 http://spidertangle.net/the_book/vassilakis3.html from RiP: #13 http://spidertangle.net/the_book/vassilakis4.html from RiP: #17 http://spidertangle.net/the_book/vassilakis5.html [visual poetry for the linguistically impaired] www.spidertangle.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:15:29 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: poetrying Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bravo Nick. You nailed it. -----Original Message----- From: Nick Piombino Sent: Nov 28, 2004 7:31 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: poetrying Mark Weiss' recent post is of particular interest to me for a number of reasons. I was an English major in college, an honors student, but I decided, even though I respected and admired most of the professors I was working with immensely, I could not proceed with a career in academia. I went into therapy, and later also became a therapist, and a psychoanalyst, while continuing to remain a participant in contemporary literature, to the extent I could find the time and inclination. One concern that I have written about many times, on this list and elsewhere- and in many of my poems- which I chose to call instead "theoretical objects"- is the danger of "pretentiousness" both in poetry and the poetry life. It seems to me one risk that occurs with those who are frequently listened to, whose words are carefully thought about, and eventually celebrated, at least by some other poets, is a tendency towards taking their hierarchical status- within the halls of letters, so to speak- a bit too--what shall I say?--portentously, perhaps. Even when I was a young, inexperienced college student, I could sense that the frequently encountered quality of didactic intoning, one might call it, masked a conscientiously concealed, but nonetheless obvious weariness with the texts that they were concerned-and charged- with protecting, preserving, praising and interpreting. None dare call it boredom! Clearly, a therapist no doubt faces some parallel risks and tendencies. The frequently praised writings of the British psychoanalyst Adam Phillips strike me as crashingly boring, as I experienced most of the (translated, enigmatic) writing of the celebrated Jacques Lacan decades ago; though I frequently enjoyed work by writers who claimed to be influenced by his work. This leads into the final words in Mark Weiss' statement: his ideas about why certain poems are "boring." Though continuous efforts are made in the halls of literature to separate, isolate and elevate the wheat from the chaff, it seems to me that the constant efforts of this very process puts the focus on the food critics instead of the food, on the gourmet aspect rather than the aspect of nutrition, so to speak. It seems to me that when so many are starving for what poets and poetry have to offer, clearly, in most cases without knowing it, that the challenge is to define those issues, the "resistances", so to speak, to the effects or goals of poetry, rather than blame the quality of the poetry being written; or turn to the "market" analyses of the professional critics. The common enemy of the kind of persons interested in poetry, it seems to me, is superficiality, not lack of entertainment satisfaction or the assurance of being in the presence of proven greatness. I think what makes the "career" of poetry so wearying is not the writing of the poetry, or even having to support it by other means than the activities of literature, or dealing with its reception, or lack thereof, but the hierarchical attitudes within the field of poetry itself. I once asked Ed Friedman,when he was still the Artistic Director of the Poetry Project, if the PP might sponsor a seminar on the topic of the "Career of the Poet." His answer was that he viewed poetry as a "calling" not a career. Virtually every serious, lifelong practicing poet has more in common with other poets than differences, whatever kind of poetry they write and however their work has been received. Most of the disagreements and failure to cooperate stems form how the activities and products of this field are regarded, it seems to me, on the whole, outside the field of literature. The problem is that most poets then tend to take out those feelings, the results of those issues, on others within the field, since nobody else seems to care, instead of confronting them and overcoming them together. Some of this is worked on by a few, very conscientiously. I will pick on Bob Holman, as an excellent example of a person who has spent his life trying to do something constructive about all this, rather than complain about it so much the way I tend to. So maybe one thing to do about all this is to go to the Bowery Poetry Club as often as possible! [I'm somewhat kidding, of course, since readings and the issues surrounding readings are only one important aspect of the field]. Nick Piombino On 11/28/04 5:09 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > George: When I began years ago my training as a therapist I realized that I > was being taught not just a set of skills but a stance towards life lived > within and without. Those who never leave school may not realize this--the > extent to which they've been acculturated by that environment. I know I > hadn't in all the prior years of education and university work. It did > change the way I write--why not? it changed the way I did everything > else--altho I think I've written all of four poems that treat the material > of doing therapy directly. > > Or is making things with language uniquely separate from the investigations > we all make in navigating the language of daily life? > > I would agree that to say that only the exceptional can incorporate the way > one has been changed by working in a bank is way over into overstatement, > if not absurdity. But I understand where Joel is coming from. In an > environment in which being a banker/poet is as far out on an experiential > edge as being a hobo/poet the risk is rather in the monoculture that poetry > can become when the daily lives of poets tend to be about the tilling of > any one field, even academia, because it's known and appears to be less > risky than lives led outside the class or cultural norm. > > Risk-free poetry produced by risk-averse poets is the last thing we need. > The distribution of talent is never democratic, but the poetry of those not > endowed with an unusual amount of it needn't be as crashingly boring as > most of what seems to be being produced, in every camp, has become. > > OK, time for my meds. > > Mark > > > At 03:32 PM 11/28/2004, you wrote: >> On 28-Nov-04, at 11:38 AM, Joel Weishaus wrote: >> >>> To think that how you make your living, what you spend at least >>> one-third >>> of your day doing, and the people you spend that time with, doesn't >>> effect >>> your work, for better or for worse, is to be naive about how the human >>> mind >>> forms itself. >> >> That is, I am afraid, an absurd statement. You effect poetry by writing >> it. >> It is not effected by a set of circumstances affecting your life. >> >>> This is not a value judgment, just an observation. There are >>> people who can and do operate on several levels at once--T.S. Eliot and >>> Wallace Stevens are two notable examples-- >> >> And William Carlos Williams, and John Keats, and Louis Zukofsky, and >> Raymond Souster >> and Lorine Niedecker >> >>> I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your >>> life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how >>> varied, how >>> far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it >>> develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at >>> that >>> point will be telling of the life you've lived. >> >> So, listen, if you have a dull job, you can forget ever writing >> interesting >> poetry, you poor things. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:35:24 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kwsherwood@AOL.COM Subject: poetry work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George: I think I nearly share your sense of poetry and work, wanting to avoid any deterministic notion that wagelabor and such produce a poetry (or not). But as you bring in Zukofsky, Williams, Niedecker, et al it has me thinking too about how crucial sometimes lousy work turned out to be in their writing. I spent some time reading Zukofsky's WPA research essays on American crafts (his paid, day job) against contemporary portions of "A". One wishes him a "better job" or perhaps even a fellowship! But the poem wouldn't be the same. No transcendence there. Ken Sherwood ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:45:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a friend once told, a good friend, and completely unrecognized poet, as was i for many yrs and by and large still am mostly for my own fault and reasons, that poetry was an old man's game i said thank you mr rimbaud also had a teacher once who said your best stuff gets written before you are 19 thank you mr takuboku well finally after i hit 50 i jumped into the fray even tho i've been writing poems practicularly and artsy fartsing around since i was able to pick up a pencil and pen. that same friend also said that all you need to write poetry is precisely that a pencil and a piece of paper unlike say, music and painting well he was right on both counts in my case because i started to try playing the game way too late and still fumble the ball alot tho like vernon at 58 i finally got my gig at the poetry project ( thru weird circumstances which some on this list squabbled about for at least a week) tho my absence from the scene sure accounts for that and most of the folk i know who "made it" and who are making it are and have done so in their late 20's to mid 30's and what doe MAKE IT mean ???? bookss maybe a few worthless chaps but if you're not in the streamm you may never get caught i'm still waiting for what i consider a BOOK even the few things that came my way most came when i was over 50 ah enough of this mindless nesss leftovers pome now has a first line i think don't keep leftovers in your pocket overnight _________________________________ facing the sun a dark speak left chain-picked hope spint paraducks limited egnar ruled to mate o si it wares soon as kitchen 1/2 angled servitude oh mother thankyou & he always wears red grind the sea into your mouth gypsy wobbly spine tumbling currents into lips - experience lowly expressed iery fed hursed pockets full of empty this sexnex s(a)cr(a)red stick a scilt line symphony read reversed mortal own fked professionate kraut crowd bribe pock & puke childhood convicted for convictions on this liminal rim. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:39:16 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit au pony up the dough les 13 coupables l'affaire x-2-34 die schwaze list / empire strikes surveiller et punir yr goose is cooked take the money & ran.... mn #:00...where do i piss..rin tin....drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:41:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: Re: poetrying Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed i think it was joel oppenheimer who said if you are a poet at twenty it's because you are twenty if you are a poet at forty it's because you are a poet. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 03:48:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: urge (do read) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed urge did i say dissemination? darwin's dis/ease. i'm too smart, too aware i'm writing just to continue, assert presence, inscribe. place my mark like every other smart little boy and girl. graffiti the indefinite walls of cyberspace. what i say is irrelevant. it's all in the action, spraying this, that, every other site, building up recognition capital on google. i want to escape my genes. i can't meditate for more than thirty seconds. my shakuhachi playing lasts a couple of minutes and i'm on to something else. i have to leave my mark everywhere. i recognize the compulsion. i write about the compulsion and against the compulsion. i'd like to see bush dead. his compulsion ruins the world. i see my ugly face reflected in his ugly face. i scrawl here; he scrawls there. i scrawl virtual; he scrawls real. maybe he even thinks about it. if i don't spray nightly, i'm lost. my body turns against me; my dreams become nightmares worse than usual, endless, vicious. the flesh deflates, potency gone; the mind evaporates. i'm aware of the illness. i can deconstruct the illness. i can work through it and the illness is at the other end. the illness is our illness. contrary to belief, there are no borders to the blog, just boarders. there are borders on the list. one comes up against another. one response is always out of control of the other. list territory is psychological territory, a wager. it is a wager of the real, not of the virtual, but in the virtual. it is useless at this end, my end. every publication is another brick, another ward against death. the recordings, books, videos, anthologies, magazines, tapes, dvds, cdroms, pile up like debris. i look on one side and see nothing. i look over to the other side; there's nothing there. there's the urge and it pushes. it mixes with wonder which is perhaps its excuse or perhaps what's left of a humanity i want to hold to. but the urge is a sickness, the sickness of a mad species, a mad specimen, the madness of the obsessive individual. write or die. years ago i had up on the wall: i write myself into existence. i write myself out of existence. the inscription is all there is. the inscription gives me the fairy-tale, the fantasy, fantasm, imaginary, image, of survival after death. of promulgation ad infinitum. of gene-pools no longer at the mercy of the flesh. this is my politics. it is probably everyone's. we take positions, backwards and forwards, of withdrawal as well. meditation is a position as rigid as others. we hold to them. we work with them, work towards them. we're genetically driven. we're tagging everything in site. we're tagging everyone and every other. we're tagging the planet, we're sprawl/scrawl. there's false joy in this. i'm aware of the falseness, crash constantly. i write another, yet another piece. 'artist' is an excuse for tagging of every kind, out of control, unstructured, desperate. tagging is an excuse for inscription, leaving genetic debris, named or anonymous, but always named, everywhere in sight, in site, in cite. the wonder follows, fallow. bush kills, bushwhacks. we are responsible for millions of tiny murders, day by day. powerless, we do the same. every letter is a violence, occupies space, defends itself, within and without spell-check. it's the urge. i know it and can't fight it. we're talking, scrawling, unto death. the light that can be seen and can't be named: the brain shutting down, just before everything goes black. we'll all be there, emptied out. we're gone before we started. nm.txt and !assassinations mc terrorisms !and !assassinations !them !A !fray !is !a !fight mh missiles !on !the !mossy !sward !there !are !assassins !they mi to !chiagas !darwin's !disease !also !to !kissing C:\image\nm.txt - 1 cached - Nov 19 mi.txt arms.at last i came to the eastern blood-sucking conenose and it seemed pinned down for the moment. this led to chiagas, darwin's disease, also to kissing and assassin C:\image\mi.txt - 1 cached - Nov 19 lk.txt Corporate Fascist -what everyone else is Crash -not my fault Cybercash -never safe Cybersex -never as good as the real thing, not real sex Darwin -someone who says we descended C:\image\lk.txt - 1 cached - Nov 19 mi.txt arms.at last i came to the eastern blood-sucking conenose and it seemed pinned down for the moment. this led to chiagas, darwin's disease, also to kissing and assassin C:\sampler\mi.txt - 1 cached - Oct 13 lk.txt Corporate Fascist -what everyone else is Crash -not my fault Cybercash -nver safe Cybersex -never as good as the real thing, not real sex Darwin -someone who says we descended C:\sampler\lk.txt - 1 cached - Oct 13 _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:14:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Remove red cap / Liquid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Remove red cap / Liquid Transfer installation. 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Tina Darragh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This was badly mispelt etc so I have been moved to resend it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: "UB Poetics discussion group" Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 12:22 PM Subject: Re: poetrying "The word is skrewed..." Tina Darragh That might apply to chess player or a tennis player but not to poetry or other literature or as we know art (Grandma Moses) - and a lot of poets were dead for hundreds of years before they were"discovered" ..and so on... It makes no diff. what one does in life - but certainly one needs to live and we all have to do that so we are all in different ways equiped to write and of course reading is essential (as wide and deep and as extensive and intense as possible) - although the NZ "street poet" who sells poems he has written on silver-backed cardboard for $5 each writes simple but sometimes beautiful poems and I once said to him - "You dont know much of literature, do you Noodle?" and he replied, quite unabashed: "Yes, you are quite right - I am illiterate" But we all know people like Kendrick Smithyman (NZ) Ron Silliman, Piert van Taubmann,Stevens,Celan,Shakespear,Steve Dalachinskly, Ben Jonson, Stein and Pound etc and many have read various of the classics and the modern critics and philosphers etc but not my friend the "Street Poet" (Noodle String he calls himself - he is a very tall Australian fellow as it happens): Ho! Ho! I say, Ho! Good on us all ! - We are all skinning various poetic cats in different ways. "The word is skrewed, skewed, bent back on itself in a gorgeous torsion to tremblingness: and in that dialectical division leading to ferment, a terrible but intruded pale light causes us to fixate on the [subconscious] E sign that - like a 'possible-tron' - vanishes before we can think on it." Tina Darragh (writing on Derrida and Jacobson etc). Richard Taylor > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tyrone williams" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 11:40 AM > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > Having had my first book published at the age of 48 I guess I just crawled > under the wire...I don't know who made the comment but I can imagine who > might have *and might yet)... > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nick Piombino > > Sent: Nov 28, 2004 4:31 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > I was disturbed to learn that a well-known > > critic of innovative poetry has been quoted > > as pointing out that if "You do not make it as a poet by > > your 40's you will not make it at all." > > > > What might this critic have meant by that? > > > > Nick Piombino > > > > > > > > On 11/28/04 3:47 PM, "Joel Weishaus" wrote: > > > > > Hey Miekal: > > > > > > It doesn't so much have to do with age as with having gone through the > > > process of mimesis, which students must do, and arriving at what is > uniquely > > > you. In this sense, most poets never mature, and so we see that most > poetry > > > looks and sounds alike. On the other hand, some mature early--Gary > Snyder, > > > Robert Creeley, come quickly to mind. And if one's work reaches > maturity, > > > this is when, as with satori, the real work begins.It is the opposite of > > > ossification, but an expansive release of creative energy from an > > > experiential base, one that may last a lifetime. Thus, Michelangelo was > > > doing his most mature, innovative carving in his 80s. > > > > > > > > > -Joel > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "mIEKAL aND" > > > To: > > > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:26 PM > > > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > > > > > >> Joel, before you hangup on this thread, what differentiates between a > > >> young poet & a mature poet? I think of myself as a young poet tho I've > > >> been writing, publishing & editing since the mid 70s, & I still seem to > > >> have an adverse reaction to thinking of myself as a mature poet which I > > >> read to mean ossified tho Im pretty sure you're meaning it in a whole > > >> other way. > > >> > > >> mIEKAL > > >> > > >> On Sunday, November 28, 2004, at 01:38 PM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As your > > >>> life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how > > >>> varied, how > > >>> far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as it > > >>> develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say at > > >>> that > > >>> point will be telling of the life you've lived. > > >>> > > >>> -Joel > > >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 07:07:21 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog: Rukeyser & the Objectivists Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Muriel Rukeyser & the Objectivists? The blogroll reaches 400 An image from another time The hidden poems in the work of Elyse Friedman Thomas Jefferson as polymath - step inside Monticello Three tasks now for the American left in the wake of the election Proust & time Hearing Rae Armantrout (the tell-tale sign of a good audience) Fallujah in Pictures "Her lungs heavy with asbestos" A constructivist memoir "A bus ride is better than most art" -- Here's why An interview on blogging Cognitive blends & the parsimony principle (more on poetry & language) Poetry, language & linguistics (revisiting Ruth Altmann) Micropublishing & the self-published chapbook: Tinker Greene's Man Going to His Doom http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 01:04:40 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great post Nick - do you recall Lacan's famous (albeit now very boring): "That which has itself self-divided in Self-making X* Perplexity three times through and through and outside the bewilderdnessness - mirror of itself -screams only to be, and in due concede, celebrates only it's pre-conscious death-life in the wonder endlessly unfolding of into and around the I or the We of Openness,and indeed, by a neo-Freudian transmutation into the Ego (begrudged by the Id) or into and around the speech or indeed the Say or the Z-essay whence lust has its especial provenance." ?? * * I have never been sure of the addition of the X here - what is its import here? Indeed the Z also puzzles me - but then Alan S can (to take another philospher poet example) be very complex and unexpected - ( often in his 'joiussance' - great jets of coming semantic (for it is surely also an erotic project ( refer to Alan Sondheim's project of course)) and exuberance veritably burns thru the nueronic nerve net in his projects (whose fragments only we can see - and what immensity of potential connectivities and " 'openions' (thought here is becoming chemical as cations or (dog!)ions whiskered the illicit spools ((spilling) into eggs of Not) to opening out" lies beyond we cannnot conceive at this historical (hsyterical?) point): we are joyously flamed as has been said..or mooted: the swift changes of language, the beating of the immensity and pathos of the poor human voice (lurking mostly in preconscious space and indeed in a kind of proleptic dark or stupor ) sub speciae aeternitatis - in the realm - human though - and the sudden intrusion of the Child into a complex technical discourse (the Father) and the sparking semantic showers to flow into or around us and indeed flow becomes flower (and we in OUR turn flower, indeed) - (and) the trangression and animus intensity of whose Guilty Laugh - the haha of Time - enjoins us { if we can 'stay the course'} into a joyous joining and the beginning of mutterings from the very core of what we thought we were -or are - and so on: an example indeed of 'complexity as method' (Charles Bernstein) - to be applauded sometimes, indeed it might be seen by some as 'totality as method' or somesuch (one is beautifully baffled and perhaps cornered into a kingdom whose "cagean lake of silence' (Richard Taylor) [ where silence is not silence but its negation made infinite] or indeed the applause breaks out from those long dead white beards of noise irritating like some self-cultured pearl self-striving in shell darkness (furiously sea-tussling with the sleeping green thoughts)) - such epistemological reflections cause us pause indeed (as if the "scop": had struck up his lyre amongst us ! The ancient tale! The Dragon Slayer who himself is (ultimately) slain.....(perhaps by his own weapons - words - or 'wapfons') The struggle contines - we sleep , we eat..who are we??..." )). I think that in contrast to Your "Theoretical Objects" - which I admire a lot - I bought it via the net: Lacan veers into that realm of self-congratulation and complexity and perhaps some would (unkindly?) surmise - turgidity - whilst being a greatly astute philosopher/psychologist/literary theorist (and nfluenced a young friend of mine (did a PhD on him )) one Michael Arnold of NZ. (He's not a Marxist - you may relax !! Doesn't share my views per se..... but is very talented writer/poet). But I feel that such writing as sported above by Monsieur Lacan - difficult and seemingly meaningless - what is meaningless? - is nevertheless stimulating to certain persons who can working abstract realms. Some would say Lacan overdid things. And of course another writer who is useful even if maybe flawed is Michel Foucault whose: " I go to sleep as an angel and wake as the devil." haunts me to this day. Richard Taylor > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nick Piombino" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > Mark Weiss' recent post is of particular interest to me for a number > > of reasons. I was an English major in college, an honors > > student, but I decided, even though I respected and admired most of the > > professors I was working with immensely, I could > > not proceed with a career in academia. I went into therapy, > > and later also became a therapist, and a psychoanalyst, while continuing > > to remain a participant in contemporary literature, to > > the extent I could find the time and inclination. One concern > > that I have written about many times, on this list and > > elsewhere- and in many of my poems- which I chose > > to call instead "theoretical objects"- is the danger of "pretentiousness" > > both in poetry and the poetry life. It seems to me one > > risk that occurs with those who are frequently listened to, > > whose words are carefully thought about, and eventually > > celebrated, at least by some other poets, is a tendency towards taking > their > > hierarchical status- within the halls of letters, so to speak- a bit > > too--what shall I say?--portentously, perhaps. Even when > > I was a young, inexperienced college student, I could sense > > that the frequently encountered quality of didactic intoning, > > one might call it, masked a conscientiously concealed, but nonetheless > > obvious weariness with the texts that they were concerned-and charged- > with > > protecting, preserving, praising and interpreting. None dare call it > > boredom! Clearly, a therapist no doubt faces some parallel risks and > > tendencies. The frequently praised writings > > of the British psychoanalyst Adam Phillips strike me as crashingly > > boring, as I experienced most of the (translated, enigmatic) writing of > the > > celebrated Jacques Lacan decades ago; though I frequently enjoyed > > work by writers who claimed to be influenced by his work. > > > > This leads into the final words in Mark Weiss' statement: his > > ideas about why certain poems are "boring." Though continuous efforts > > are made in the halls of literature to separate, isolate and elevate the > > wheat from the chaff, it seems to me that the constant efforts of this > very > > process puts the focus on the ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:06:48 -0500 Reply-To: jamie@gaughran-perez.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Gaughran-Perez Subject: Re: : Sense and Sensibility, NEA outrage continued In-Reply-To: <20041127182033.ULWI2049.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jumping on this wagon -- one would think getting your bread elsewhere would free up your poetry from having to pursue careerist or otherwise commercial missions. At least that's the model I'm working on. After all, what better purpose for working the J-O-B if not to fund the continuance of American Lit -- it's like you are making your own arts grant. Not saying the job doesn't get in the way of all the writing and reading I wish I had more time for. jamie.gp Vernon Frazer wrote: >I wouldn't be so quick to slam the businessmen poets, although I understand >the reasoning very well. I have my own criteria for determining who's a >serious writer of poetry or fiction and who isn't. It's like measuring >"heart" in a boxer. The ones I take most seriously have the determination of >Joe Frazier wanting to go out for the 15th round in Ali-Frazier III. > >What's wrong with working to sustain yourself? Even starving artists have to >find a way to eat and keep a roof over their heads. I hated my job, but it >paid my bills and gave me the money to self-publish work that other >publishers were afraid to touch. (I also learned how to write on the job, >turning my bureaucrat's post into an unofficial government grant.) A lot of >deeply-committed poets work at jobs they hate because they'll die if they >don't. Does anybody know of any poets who write posthumously? > >Still, the businessman writing poetry smacks of dilettantism, or at least >seems to hint at it. But again, you have to consider the individual, first. >I'm sure there are plenty of people who take their writing very seriously >while maintaining careers, and that there are many others who write >complacent middlebrow poetry that would make us snicker---or snarl when we >found out how much money they were making compared to us. > >Vernon > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:10:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Election Fraud in Florida (and Elsewhere) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Orlando Weekly: Was the Election Hacked in Florida? WAS IT HACKED? By Alan Waldman Orlando Weekly Published 18 November 2004 http://frogblog.journalspace.com/ Despite mainstream media attempts to kill the story, talk radio and the Internet are abuzz with suggestions that John Kerry was elected president on Nov. 2 -- but Republican election officials made it difficult for millions of Democrats to vote while employees of four secretive, GOP-bankrolled corporations rigged electronic voting machines and then hacked central tabulating computers to steal the election for George W. Bush. The Bush administration's "fix" of the 2000 election debacle (the Help America Vote Act) made crooked elections considerably easier, by foisting paperless electronic voting on states before the bugs had been worked out or meaningful safeguards could be installed. Crying foul this time around isn't just the province of whiny Democrats. Consider that The Wall Street Journal recently revealed that "Verified Voting, a group formed by a Stanford University professor to assess electronic voting, has collected 31,000 reports of election fraud and other problems." University of Pennsylvania researcher Dr. Steven Freeman, in his November 2004 paper "The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy," says that the odds that the discrepancies between predicted [exit poll] results and actual vote counts in Ohio, Florida and Pennsylvania could have been due to chance or random error are 250 million to 1. "Systematic fraud or mistabulation is a premature conclusion," writes Freeman, "but the election's unexplained exit poll discrepancies make it an unavoidable hypothesis, one that is the responsibility of the media, academia, polling agencies, and the public to investigate." Unlike Europe, where citizens count the ballots, in the United States employees of a highly secretive Republican-leaning company, ES&S, managed every aspect of the 2004 election. That included everything >from registering voters, printing ballots and programming voting machines to tabulating votes (often with armed guards keeping the media and members of the public who wished to witness the count at bay) and reporting the results, for 60 million voters in 47 states, according to Christopher Bollyn, writing in American Free Press. Most other votes were counted by three other firms that are snugly in bed with the GOP. This election is not the first suspicious venture into electronic voting. In Georgia, in November 2002, Democratic Gov. Roy Barnes led by 11 percent and Democratic Sen. Max Cleland was in front by 5 percent just before the election -- the first ever conducted entirely on touch- screen electronic machines, and counted entirely by company employees, rather than public officials -- but mysterious election-day swings of 16 percent and 12 percent defeated both of these popular incumbents. In Minnesota, Democrat Walter Mondale (replacing beloved Sen. Paul Wellstone, who died in a plane crash), lost in an amazing last-moment 11 percent vote swing recorded on electronic machines. Then, in 2003, what's known as "black box voting" helped Arnold Schwarzenegger -- who had deeply offended female, Latino and Jewish voters -- defeat a popular Latino Democrat who substantially led in polls a week before the election. A RAT IS SMELLED Realizing that the 2004 election results are suspect, many prominent people and groups have begun to demand action. Recently, six important Congressmen, including three on the House Judiciary Committee, asked the U.S. Comptroller General to investigate the efficacy of new electronic voting devices. Black Box Voting -- the nonprofit group which spearheaded much of the pre-election testing (and subsequent criticism) of electronic machines that found them hackable in 90 seconds -- is filing the largest Freedom of Information Act inquiry in U.S. history. The organization's Bev Harris claims, "Fraud took place in the 2004 election through electronic voting machines." Florida Democratic congressional candidate Jeff Fisher charged that he has and will show the FBI evidence that Florida results were hacked; he also claims to have knowledge of who hacked it -- in 2004 and in the 2002 Democratic primary (so Jeb Bush would not have to run against the popular Janet Reno). Fisher also believes that most Democratic candidates nationwide were harmed by GOP hacking and other dirty tactics -- particularly in swing states. The Green and Libertarian Parties, as well as Ralph Nader, are demanding an Ohio recount, because of voting fraud, suppression and disenfranchisement. Recounts are also being sought in New Hampshire, Nevada and Washington. Although the Internet is full of stories of election fraud, and major media in England, Canada and elsewhere have investigated the story, you'll find almost nothing in the major U.S. media. "I have been told by sources that are fairly high up in the media -- particularly TV -- that there is now a lockdown on this story," says Harris. "It's officially 'Let's move on' time." On Nov. 6, Project Censored Award-winning author Thom Hartmann said, "So far, the only national 'mainstream' media outlet to come close to this story was Keith Olbermann, when he noted that it was curious that all the voting machine irregularities so far uncovered seemed to favor Bush. In the meantime, the Washington Post and other media are now going through single-bullet-theory-like contortions to explain how the exit polls had failed." VOTE STEALING 101 Votes collected by electronic machines (and by optical scan equipment that reads traditional paper ballots) are sent via modem to a central tabulating computer, which counts the votes on Windows software. Therefore, anyone who knows how to operate an Excel spreadsheet and who is given access to the central tabulation machine can, in theory, change election totals. On a CNBC cable TV program, Black Box Voting exec Harris showed guest host Howard Dean how to alter vote totals within 90 seconds, by entering a two-digit code in a hidden program on Diebold's election software. Harris declared, "This is not a 'bug' or accidental oversight; it is there on purpose." A quartet of companies control the U.S. vote count. Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia and SAIC are all hard-wired into the Bush campaign and power structure. Diebold chief Walden O'Dell is a top Bush fund-raiser. According to "online anarchist community" Infoshop.org, "At Diebold, the election division is run by Bob Urosevich. Bob's brother, Todd, is a top executive at 'rival' ES&S. The brothers were originally staked by Howard Ahmanson, a member of the Council For National Policy, a right-wing steering group stacked with Bush true believers. Ahmanson is also one of the bagmen behind the extremist Christian Reconstruction Movement, which advocates the theocratic takeover of American democracy." Sequoia is owned by a partner member of the Carlyle Group, which is believed to have dictated foreign policy in both Bush administrations and has employed former President Bush for quite a while. All early Tuesday indicators predicted a Kerry landslide. Zogby International (which predicted the 2000 outcome more accurately than any national pollster) did exit polling which predicted a 100-electoral vote triumph for Kerry. He saw Kerry winning crucial Ohio by 4 percent. Princeton professor Sam Wang, whose meta-analysis had shown the election to be close in the week before the election, began coming up with dramatic numbers for Kerry in the day before and day of the election. At noon EST on Monday, Nov. 1, he predicted a Kerry win by a 108-vote margin. In the Iowa Electronic Markets, where "investors" put their money where their mouths are and wager real moolah on election outcome "contracts," Bush led consistently for months before the election -- often by as much as 60 percent to 39 percent. But at 7 p.m. CST on Nov. 2, 76.6 percent of the last hour's traders had gone to Kerry, with only 20.1 percent plunking their bucks down on Bush. They knew something. As the first election returns came in, broadcasters were shocked to see that seemingly safe Bush states like Virginia, Kentucky and North Carolina were being judged as "too close to call." At 7:28 EST, networks broadcast that both states favored Kerry by 51 percent to 49 percent. In his research paper, Steven Freeman reports that exit polls showed Kerry had been elected. He was leading in nearly every battleground state, in many cases by sizable margins. But later, in 10 of 11 battleground states, the tallied margins differed from the predicted margins -- and in every one the shift favored Bush. In 10 states where there were verifiable paper trails -- or no electronic machines -- the final results hardly differed from the initial exit polls. In non-paper-trail states, however, there were significant differences. Florida saw a shift from Kerry up by 1 percent in the exit polls to Bush up by 5 percent at close of voting. In Ohio, Kerry went from up 3 percent to down 3 percent. Exit polls also had Kerry winning the national popular vote by 3 percent. In close Senate races, changes between the exit poll results and the final tallies cost Democrats anticipated seats in Kentucky (a 13 percent swing to the GOP), Alaska, North Carolina, Florida, Oklahoma, South Dakota and possibly Pennsylvania -- as well as enough House seats to retake control of the chamber. Centre for Research on Globalization's Michael Keefer states, "The National Election Pool's own data -- as transmitted by CNN on the evening of November 2 and the morning of November 3 -- suggest very strongly that the results of the exit polls were themselves fiddled late on November 2 in order to make their numbers conform with the tabulated vote tallies." How do we know the fix was in? Keefer says the total number of respondents at 9 p.m. was well over 13,000 and at 1:36 a.m. it had risen less than 3 percent -- to 13,531 total respondents. Given the small increase in respondents, this 5 percent swing to Bush is mathematically impossible. In Florida, at 8:40 p.m., exit polls showed a near dead heat but the final exit poll update at 1:01 a.m. gave Bush a 4 percent lead. This swing was mathematically impossible, because there were only 16 more respondents in the final tally than in the earlier one. FLORIDA FIASCO II Kathy Dopp's eye-opening examination of Florida's county-by-county record of votes cast and people registered by party affiliation (http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm) suggests systematic and widespread election fraud in 47 of the state's 67 counties. This did not occur so much in the touch-screen counties, where public scrutiny would naturally be focused, but in counties where optically screened paper ballots were fed into a central tabulator PC, which is highly vulnerable to hacking. In these optical-scan counties, had GOP registrants voted Republican, Democratic registrants gone for Kerry and everyone registered showed up to vote, Bush would have received 1,337,242 votes. Instead, his reported vote total there was 1,950,213! That discrepancy (612,971) is nearly double Bush's winning margin in the state (380,952). Colin Shea of Zogby International analyzed and double-checked Dopp's figures and confirmed that optical-scan counties gave Bush 16 percent more votes than he should have gotten. "This 16 percent would not be strange if it were spread across counties more or less evenly," Shea explains, but it is not. In 11 different counties, the "actual" Bush tallies were 50-100 percent higher than expected. In one county, where 88 percent of voters are registered Democrats, Bush got nearly two- thirds of the vote -- three times more than predicted by his statistical model. In 47 Florida counties, the number of presidential votes exceeded the number of registered voters. Palm Beach County recorded 90,774 more votes than voters and Miami-Dade had 51,979 more, while relatively honest Orange County had only 1,648 more votes than voters. Overall, Florida reported 237,522 more presidential votes (7.59 million) than citizens who turned out to cast ballots (7.35 million). There were thousands of complaints about Florida voting. Broward County electronic voting machines counted up to 32,500 and then started counting backward. This glitch, which existed in the 2002 election but was never fixed, overturned the exit-poll-predicted results of a gambling referendum. In several Florida counties, early-morning voters reported ballot boxes that already had an unusually large quantity of ballots in them. In Florida and five other states, according to Canada's Globe and Mail, "the wrong candidate appeared on their touch-screen machine's checkout screen" after the person had voted. Republicans have argued that the Florida counties with majority Democratic registration that voted overwhelmingly for Bush were all conservative "Dixiecrat" bastions in northern Florida, and that all the reported totals were accurate. But Olbermann demonstrated that many of these crossover states voted Republican for the first time. He poked another hole in the Dixiecrat theory when he noted that in Democratic counties where Bush scored big, people also supported highly Democratic measures -- such as raising the state minimum wage $1 above the federal level. Moreover, 18 switchover counties were not in the Panhandle or near the Georgia border, but were scattered throughout the state. For instance, Hardee County (between Bradenton and Sebring) registered 63.8 percent Democratic but officially gave Bush 135 percent more votes than Kerry. WIDESPREAD PROBLEMS Voters Unite! detailed 303 specific election problems, including 84 complaints of machine malfunctions in 22 states, 24 cases of registration fraud in 14 states, 20 abusive voter challenge situations in 10 states, U.S. voters in 18 states and Israel experiencing absentee ballot difficulties, 10 states with provisional ballot woes, 22 cases of malfeasance in 13 states, 10 charges of voter intimidation in seven states, seven states where votes were suppressed, seven states witnessing outbreaks of animosity at the polls, six states suffering from ballot printing errors and seven instances in four states where votes were changed on-screen. In addition, the Voters Unite! website cites four states with early voting troubles, three states undergoing ballot programming errors, three states demonstrating ballot secrecy violations, bogus ballot fraud in New Mexico and double-voting for Bush in Texas. Kerry's victory was predicted by previously extremely accurate Harris and Zogby exit polls, by the formerly infallible 50 percent rule (an incumbent with less than 50 percent in the exit polls always loses; Bush had 47 percent -- requiring him to capture an improbable 80 percent of the undecideds to win) and by the Incumbent Rule (undecideds break for the challenger, as exit polls showed they did by a large margin this time). Nor is it credible that the surge in new young voters (who were witnessed standing in lines for hours, on campuses nationwide) miraculously didn't appear in the final totals; that Kerry did worse than Gore against an opponent who lost support; and that exit polls were highly accurate wherever there was a paper trail and grossly underestimated Bush's appeal wherever there was no such guarantee of accurate recounts. Statisticians point out that Bush beat 99 to 1 mathematical odds in winning the election. Election results are not final until electors vote on Dec. 12. There is still time to find the truth. Alan Waldman is an award-winning journalist who lives in Los Angeles. He voted for John Kerry and Barbara Boxer. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 09:33:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Re: Asking for help about Slam poets etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julie, this from Phil West re: his forthcoming oral history of slam from=20 Soft Skull: My book probably won't be out for another year. I do know, however, that=20 there's a new DVD version of SlamNation, the 1997 Paul Devlin documentary, = and there's another documentary, Slam Planet, which will be released later = this year. And Marc Smith just wrote a Dummies' Guide to Poetry Slam,=20 which, despite being part of a how-to series, actually has some decent=20 history incorporated.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:10:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Stephen Baraban Subject: Re: poetry work / WPA In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ken Sherwood: Why would writing "WPA research essays on American crafts" be an example of "lousy" work for a poet? Sounds inviting to me--can I comandeer (sp.?) a Time Machine and go back to the thirties and sign up for the job? Does anyone else feel this way? What would be a better job, if a poet has to have one, and mostly we do? Craft activities can be considered intriguingly similar and different to what one is doing as a poet or other "fine artist", so one would be learning a lot from studying them--and also learning about the sociology of one's country. What would be better--being an academic and dealing with a blizzard of student papers, many of them from people who don't care about the subject matter? I wonder how Zukofsky would compare his WPA days and his later "better" employment as an academic? (Better get back to the Civil Service grind--and stay focused till 5:00 P.M. :( --- Kwsherwood@AOL.COM wrote: > George: > > I think I nearly share your sense of poetry and > work, wanting to avoid any > deterministic notion that wagelabor and such produce > a poetry (or not). But as > you bring in Zukofsky, Williams, Niedecker, et al it > has me thinking too about > how crucial sometimes lousy work turned out to be in > their writing. I spent > some time reading Zukofsky's WPA research essays on > American crafts (his paid, > day job) against contemporary portions of "A". One > wishes him a "better job" or > perhaps even a fellowship! But the poem wouldn't be > the same. No > transcendence there. > > Ken Sherwood > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:22:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: San Diego Poetry Guild This Wednesday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Join the San Diego Poetry Guild this Wednesday (Dec 1) for "Open [up the] Mic" night at Korova Coffee Bar. Traditional and non-traditional uses of the microphone. Stage, microphone, projection, amplification, audio/video database provided. All are welcome to participate, hang out, use the mic. 7-9pm Korova Coffee Bar 4496 Park Blvd. University Heights Contact *guild at factoryschool dot org* for more info. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 09:26:41 -0700 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: filling Station Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "filling Station Magazine requests the pleasure of your Submissions!" Calling all writers! filling Station magazine needs your poetry and fiction! So get out of your rocking chair, dig through that shoebox under your bed, and send us your *best* work. filling Station magazine is a literary magazine run out of Calgary, Alberta, Canada. We are especially interested in innovative writing that challenges the reader to consider the world from multiple perspectives. Recent issues have included work from Louis Cabri, Jill Hartman, Susan Holbrook, Lisa Jarnot, Larissa Lai, K. Silem Mohammad, Sarah Murphy, Shane Rhodes, Stuart Ross, Brian Kim Stefans, Aritha Van Herk, and Fred Wah. Submissions can be transmitted via email: Poetry - poetry @fillingstation.ca Fiction - fiction @fillingstation.ca Or via snail mail: filling Station P.O. Box 22135 Bankers Hall Calgary, AB T2P 4J5 Canada Act soon! The submission deadline is fast approaching! Get us your work by January 30, 2005! Paper submissions should be accompanied by a self-addressed, stamped envelope if a response is needed. All other manuscripts (both paper and electronic) will receive no response unless we decide to publish your work. If you have not heard back from us within 6 months please assume that we have decided against printing your work and feel free to send it elsewhere. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:18:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Raphael Israel Subject: what's correct quote? -- =?utf-8?B?IlRoZQ==?= world exists . . . =?utf-8?B?Ig==?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Poeticsters, There is a well-known, often-quoted sentence I'm trying to track down. (Not entirely well-enough known to me, nor often enough quoted.) I recall it's by a French writer, possibly symbolist poet(? -- no, I think novelist) . . . My recollection is, it runs something like this: << The world was made [the world exists?] for the purpose of being put [by me?] into a book. >> If somebody can point me to correct quotation / source / etc., I'd be obliged. merci, d.i. | david raphael israel | O t h e r S h o r e <> washington dc | davidi@wizard.net | (or davidi@othershore.net) | | also: info@othershore-arts.net | http://www.othershore-arts.net | | Du Peihua's Hong Bu Jing -- world premiere at | Viennale (Vienna Int'l Film Festival) Oct.25, 2004: | http://www.viennale.at/en/programm/filme/1397.shtml ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:34:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: what's correct quote? -- "The world exists . . . " In-Reply-To: <20041129181848.32055.qmail@qmail.fcc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This has nothing to do with the quote you are asking about, but I thought of two lovely and supposedly not contradictory quotes by yoga teacher T. K. V. Desikachar: "The world exists to be seen and experienced." "The world exists to set you free." Of course the space in which those quotes are not contradictory is the "practice room". Sorry yeah basically this has nothing to do with your post. Oh well. Kazim __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 09:22:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark: It's weird, though. I was watching 60 Minutes last night, the story of the child prodigy composer to whom the music just comes, music being commissioned for him to write, and I think he's about eight years old! Of course he's a prodigy, and so doesn't fit the mold. But I think it's some of both. You need life experience, lots of it and as varied as possible, in order to have something worth saying, and you must also have a line open to your Muse, the Mystery from where the creative impulse comes. As for this kid, for some unknown magic of the human brain, he's tapped into something much larger than himself, something we poets also have the privilege of glimpsing when we're writing well and beyond ourselves. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 5:50 PM Subject: Re: poetrying > You seem to be speaking from both sides of the issue, which certainly makes > things more complex. My own part of this discussion was more about the > health of poetry than about the health of individual poets. The problem, it > seems to me, is the similarity of experience that the institutionalization > of poetry has led to. Let's for a moment imagine Milton without his day job > or in a parsonage like Herrick. He wrote some pretty wonderful poetry > before taking on his political role, but Lycidas, which marks the decision > to do so, is I think the best of the early work, and his day job gave us > Paradise Lost, among a great deal else the best political poem in the > language. Tho the job kept him away from verse for a decade. > > Behind this discussion is I think another. I take George Bowering's > statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. It is not effected by a > set of circumstances affecting your life" as expressing an extreme > aestheticist position. Sure, you have to decide to write it in order to > write, a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition. But that's not the > whole of it. > Unless a poem is just "a machine made of words" (an aestheticist > pronouncement by one of the most engaged of poets) experience > matters--having in whatever sense decided to write one writes out of the > breadth of who we are, and that breadth (or narrowness) of being is > expressed in everything we write, regardless of intention. Otherwise we > risk being about as interesting as crossword puzzles, which are also > machines made of words. > > Mark > > > At 08:06 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote: > > From a female (former and hopefully future) manager's perspective, I > >would like to make this discussion so very much more complex than it is > >now, somehow. There is so much play between "like it should be" > >according to so many "them" and how one knows it has to be for oneself. > > > > > >Early in what became my first career (and is unfortunately looking like > >it will be my second career), I did look to poets like Eliot (Pound > >"saved" him from the bank / himself), Williams, et.al. I did feel that > >by having a day job, I was broadening my experience. Also, while being > >a female technologist was a day in day out blow to self confidence, the > >paychecks were a nice counterbalance to what sometimes feels like > >constant utter writing failure. > > > >The same argument (the experience is good for you, makes you better, > >more, etc.) is made for children as is made for "real jobs". That you > >can never know what it is like to -- blah blah -- that are you really > >human if you don't -- etc etc -- that you're not participating in the > >larger society -- and I think that got mentioned here in a small way. > >Maybe it should be mentioned in a big way. I feel the societal and > >familial pressure for a woman -- me, any woman -- to have children, > >followed by the lack of value placed on mothers and children in the same > >society -- is the same sort of pressure that bears on poet / career, > >poet / artist, and artist / money situations. Blatant and outrageous > >misunderstanding of what it is to work and write is everywhere. > > > >I don't pretend I would be a poet who would visit a shopping mall like I > >would visit Mars. But -- why are sitcoms so not funny? Why do most > >broad comedies not elicit laughter (except for the schtick?)? Why is > >Billy Collins dull? (though I do find the Victoria Secret > >discomfiting)? Many of these stories sell something (via product > >placement), but they also sell something by their situation, through > >their story. So they are extraordinarily dull if you're outside the > >situation / audience / market. While I'd love to slag Jim Belushi, > >sitcoms aren't funny because they're selling stereotypes very seriously. > >And that is not funny. For the same reason, I cringe whenever W makes a > >joke about making / not making his wife do public speaking followed by > >the sure dry chuckle it elicits from his audience. > > > >I waste a lot of time worrying that my detailed knowledge about luxury > >objects is evil. But I DO write a great deal about them. I DO have a > >nearly-book-length project having to do with cooking... and the fashion > >designer poems in Da3 are a blend of criticism about the designs and > >writings / quotes from the designers. > > > >All best, > >Catherine Daly > >cadaly@pacbell.net > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:48:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <002401c4d638$096c1f50$96fdfc83@Weishaus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Music is essentially a mathematical construct and as such is inherently different from poetry. Tho of course there have been (a very few) very great young poets--not as young as this kid. My guess is that that's not as likely to happen now because of our changed expectations of poetry. Mark At 12:22 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: >Mark: > >It's weird, though. I was watching 60 Minutes last night, the story of the >child prodigy composer to whom the music just comes, music being >commissioned for him to write, and I think he's about eight years old! Of >course he's a prodigy, and so doesn't fit the mold. But I think it's some of >both. You need life experience, lots of it and as varied as possible, in >order to have something worth saying, and you must also have a line open to >your Muse, the Mystery from where the creative impulse comes. As for this >kid, for some unknown magic of the human brain, he's tapped into something >much larger than himself, something we poets also have the privilege of >glimpsing when we're writing well and beyond ourselves. > >-Joel > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mark Weiss" >To: >Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 5:50 PM >Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > You seem to be speaking from both sides of the issue, which certainly >makes > > things more complex. My own part of this discussion was more about the > > health of poetry than about the health of individual poets. The problem, >it > > seems to me, is the similarity of experience that the institutionalization > > of poetry has led to. Let's for a moment imagine Milton without his day >job > > or in a parsonage like Herrick. He wrote some pretty wonderful poetry > > before taking on his political role, but Lycidas, which marks the decision > > to do so, is I think the best of the early work, and his day job gave us > > Paradise Lost, among a great deal else the best political poem in the > > language. Tho the job kept him away from verse for a decade. > > > > Behind this discussion is I think another. I take George Bowering's > > statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. It is not effected by a > > set of circumstances affecting your life" as expressing an extreme > > aestheticist position. Sure, you have to decide to write it in order to > > write, a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition. But that's not the > > whole of it. > > Unless a poem is just "a machine made of words" (an aestheticist > > pronouncement by one of the most engaged of poets) experience > > matters--having in whatever sense decided to write one writes out of the > > breadth of who we are, and that breadth (or narrowness) of being is > > expressed in everything we write, regardless of intention. Otherwise we > > risk being about as interesting as crossword puzzles, which are also > > machines made of words. > > > > Mark > > > > > > At 08:06 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote: > > > From a female (former and hopefully future) manager's perspective, I > > >would like to make this discussion so very much more complex than it is > > >now, somehow. There is so much play between "like it should be" > > >according to so many "them" and how one knows it has to be for oneself. > > > > > > > > >Early in what became my first career (and is unfortunately looking like > > >it will be my second career), I did look to poets like Eliot (Pound > > >"saved" him from the bank / himself), Williams, et.al. I did feel that > > >by having a day job, I was broadening my experience. Also, while being > > >a female technologist was a day in day out blow to self confidence, the > > >paychecks were a nice counterbalance to what sometimes feels like > > >constant utter writing failure. > > > > > >The same argument (the experience is good for you, makes you better, > > >more, etc.) is made for children as is made for "real jobs". That you > > >can never know what it is like to -- blah blah -- that are you really > > >human if you don't -- etc etc -- that you're not participating in the > > >larger society -- and I think that got mentioned here in a small way. > > >Maybe it should be mentioned in a big way. I feel the societal and > > >familial pressure for a woman -- me, any woman -- to have children, > > >followed by the lack of value placed on mothers and children in the same > > >society -- is the same sort of pressure that bears on poet / career, > > >poet / artist, and artist / money situations. Blatant and outrageous > > >misunderstanding of what it is to work and write is everywhere. > > > > > >I don't pretend I would be a poet who would visit a shopping mall like I > > >would visit Mars. But -- why are sitcoms so not funny? Why do most > > >broad comedies not elicit laughter (except for the schtick?)? Why is > > >Billy Collins dull? (though I do find the Victoria Secret > > >discomfiting)? Many of these stories sell something (via product > > >placement), but they also sell something by their situation, through > > >their story. So they are extraordinarily dull if you're outside the > > >situation / audience / market. While I'd love to slag Jim Belushi, > > >sitcoms aren't funny because they're selling stereotypes very seriously. > > >And that is not funny. For the same reason, I cringe whenever W makes a > > >joke about making / not making his wife do public speaking followed by > > >the sure dry chuckle it elicits from his audience. > > > > > >I waste a lot of time worrying that my detailed knowledge about luxury > > >objects is evil. But I DO write a great deal about them. I DO have a > > >nearly-book-length project having to do with cooking... and the fashion > > >designer poems in Da3 are a blend of criticism about the designs and > > >writings / quotes from the designers. > > > > > >All best, > > >Catherine Daly > > >cadaly@pacbell.net > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:03:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Jalal Toufic lecture Thursday Dec 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center and the Visual Criticism Program at CCA are pleased to present a lecture by JALAL TOUFIC "Saving the Living Human's Face and Backing the Mortal" 7 PM Thursday, December 2, 2004 Free Timken Lecture Hall, CCA SF Campus 1111 Eighth Street (at Irwin, just off 16th & Wisconsin) Son of an Iraqi father and a Palestinian mother, Lebanese artist Jalal Toufic is a film theorist, video artist, and writer who creates works filled with philosophical reflections, humor, and curiosity about all facets of life. Richard Foreman writes that Toufic "documents the moves of consciousness in a way that leads the reader ever deeper, from impasse to illusion to new impasse--turning the trap of 'what can't be named' into a true paradise." Toufic's videos and mixed media works have been presented worldwide, and include Phantom Beirut: A Tribute to Ghassan Salhab, 2002; Saving Face, 2003; and The Sleep of Reason: This Blood Spilled in My Veins, 2002. His books include Distracted, Vampires, Over-Sensitivity, Forthcoming, and Undying Love or Love Dies. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 09:52:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 11-29-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WORLD OF VOICES: FRANCES RICHEY November 29-December 3 After a twenty-year career in business and corporate marketing, Frances Richey left the corporate world to teach yoga and mediation. She began writing poems for patients at Jacob Perlow Hospice in 1994, where she worked as a volunteer. Since then, her poems have been published in the Georgia Review, Salmagundi, Notre Dame Review, Poetry Northwest, and Gulf Coast, among others. Her first book, The Burning Point, was selected by Stephen Corey as the winner of the Ninth Annual White Pine Press Poetry Prize. Schedule of Public Events for Frances Richey Love Across Distance: A Writing Workshop for Military Families and Friends Tuesday, Nov. 30, 4-5:30 p.m. The American Red Cross, 786 Delaware Ave.' Those dealing with deployment, or a loved one serving in uncertain circumstances, can be subject to stress and worry. This workshop will include a reading and writing workshop, and will be geared to the experience of having a loved one in the military. Poetry & Healing: A Reading and Talk Wednesday, Dec. 1, 7-8:30 p.m. The Himalayan Institute, 841 Delaware Ave., Buffalo Writing: A Path to Healing and Way Back from Burnout Reading and Talk Thursday, Dec. 2, 3-5 p.m. at Erie County Medical Center, Grider Open to medical professionals from any organization. Musical Words: An Evening Writing Workshop For People Living with Cancer Their Friends and Families. Thursday, Dec. 2, 6-8 p.m. at Gilda's Club, 1140 Delaware Ave., Buffalo Participants are invited to bring a favorite poem, short prose piece, or saying. IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM Writer's Group Reading Series, Hosted By Karen Lewis Featuring North Side Writers Friday, December 3, 7:30 p.m., $4, $3 Students/Seniors, $2 Members The Northside Writers Group was founded in 1990 by Lois Vidaver. They've met continuously, twice a month, since then, including scheduling a social dinner on any month with five Thursdays. Over the years the meeting locations have changed from churches to bookstores to coffee shops. The group is currently being led by Lionel Nosenchuck and they meet at the Ascension Lutheran Church, 4640 Main St. in Snyder. The Northside Writers have had more than a half-dozen books published. Their members are responsible for over 20 columns published in The Buffalo News and other periodicals. Members write and critique short stories, novels, non-fiction, poetry, humorous columns, memoirs, and biography. They believe their long-term success is due to the valuable criticism they give and receive. Once a year they publish an issue of Over Coffee, a chapbook sampling of their work. This reading will feature the writers that appear in 2004 edition of Over Coffee. Signed copies will be available for purchase. For further information, visit their website: northside.artshost.com. Lionel Nosenchuck has a B.A. in English Literature from the Ohio State University. He has studied creative writing with Pulitzer Prize winning fiction writer, Peter Taylor. Mr. Nosenchuck taught English for the city of Cleveland but currently lives in Erie County. Larry Beahan is an environmental activist. He has written extensively on the Adirondacks and Allegany. His books are: My Grampa's Woods, the Adirondacks, North Country and Allegany Hellbender Tales. He is a long-time resident of Buffalo and a retired psychiatrist. Ed Hulse is a graduate of the University of Buffalo, the US Marine Corps and the College of Hard Knocks. His novel, Brother's Keeper, is concerned with solving 'the puzzle of existence.' Linda A. Lavid is consumed, beguiled and utterly frustrated with the craft of writing. Her work has appeared in The Southern Cross Review, Plots with Guns, Wilmington Blues, and Nefarious - Tales of Mystery. Ruth Willerth has had two plays produced by ACTS. She is a contributing editor to the Knife Of Truth series. She's presently employed as a stable hand, and as an usher at Darien Lake. Jo Yudess holds a Master of Science Degree in Creative Studies. She is managing editor of the Journal of Creative Behavior published by the Creative Education Foundation. Cynthia Willerth loves fantasy and Science Fiction. She writes short stories and plays, and has been editing newsletters for years. She's working on her first novel and reports "it's getting there." | David Maiman's promising career as a writer was briefly interrupted by a 40-year stint as a periodontist. | Linda Marshall is a fifth grade teacher in Buffalo who enjoys writing and traveling. She writes for children and adults and has three stories in need of a publisher. JUST BUFFALO OPEN HOUSE Saturday, December 11, 6 p.m. The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo FREE with beverages and desserts served. Enjoy refreshments and the company of friends at Just Buffalo's annual holiday open house. Meet staff, board members and volunteers - relax in the midst of the holiday rush - and learn more about the people, programs, and possibilities at hand as we move into 2005. IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY The Bitter with the Sweet, featuring N'Tare's Njozi Poets Saturday, December 11, starting at 8 p.m. Immediately following the Just Buffalo Open House Just Buffalo Literary Center Hibiscus Room, 2495 Main Street, Ste. 512 Admission: $5 / $4 student-senior/ $3 member Sample a variety of desserts as you ponder the bitter and sweet realities of life presented by spoken word/slam performance troupe N'Tare's Njozi Poets. N'Tare Ali Gault is an actor, poet and playwright. He is President/CEO of Dream Variation Enterprises, a company that specializes in performing arts. N' Tare's Njozi Poets is a spoken word collective that uses a mix of ensemble poems along with powerful solo performances. Formed two years ago by N' Tare Ali Gault, he took the best spoken word artists of the Njozi Poetry Slam series to create a powerful unit. All of the poets bring a raw energy and message each time they touch the stage. They have competed in competitions in Buffalo, Rochester, Cleveland and Toronto, winning in Cleveland. Staci Alexis Turner, James Cooper III, Howard Smith, Maryam Muhammad and Ntare Ali Gault will bring a unique prospective of their lives and the world around them in spoken verse. UPCOMING WORKSHOP THE WORKING WRITER SEMINAR, with Kathryn Radeff Final workshop of the season. December 11, 12 p.m. - 4 p.m. $50, $40 for members The Art and Craft of Creative Nonfiction December 11 Creative nonfiction heightens the whole concept and idea of essay writing. It allows a writer to employ the thoroughness of a reporter, the shifting voices and viewpoints of a novelist, the refined wordplay of a poet and the analytical modes of the essayist. Learn all about one of today's fastest growing genres. This course presents all the fundamentals of creative writing as they apply to fact-based stories and personal experience. Kathryn Radeff has been a professional writer, teacher and mentor helping writers achieve success for 24 years. Her essays, creative nonfiction, interviews, profiles and feature articles have appeared in Woman's World, Instructor, The Buffalo News, Buffalo Magazine, Reader's Digest, Buffalo Spree, The Tampa Tribune, Miami Herald, Daytona Beach News Journal, American Health, Writer's Journal and many other publications. COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS ERIE COUNTRY LIBRARIES AND CULTURAL ORGANIZATIONS UNDER THREAT All 52 libraries across Erie County will close their doors after January 1st under Erie County's proposed 2005 operating budget. This budget cuts support to the Buffalo and Erie County Public Library by more than $19 million - an 80% reduction in the System's operating funds. Please communicate your need for library services and other cultural organizations to your County Legislator, State Senator and State Assemblyperson. For public official contact information and a sample letter, visit http://www.buffalolib.org/libraries/advocacy.asp. Keep checking the Library's website, www.buffalolib.org, for updates and information on future advocacy efforts. Your support is greatly appreciated! EXHIBIT X FICTION Steve Tomasula, December 2, 7 p.m. Trinity Episcopal Church Chapel, 371 Delaware Avenue, Buffalo, NY Steve Tomasula's short fiction has appeared widely and he received the Iowa Prize for the most distinguished work published in any genre. His essays on body art and culture appear in Leonardo and other magazines both here and in Europe. He is the author of the novels IN & OZ and VAS: An Opera in Flatland. TALKING LEAVES Libby Miller Fitzgerald Booksigning, Bill Miller: Do You Know Me? A Daughter Remembers Thursday, December 2, at 7 pm. Elmwood Store. Free and open to the public. Books will be sold at the event, and are available for purchase now. BUFFALO AND ERIE COUNTY HISTORICAL SOCIETY Special evening shopping hours featuring local authors personalizing, FREE, their publications on WNY subjects! What a great gift idea! Buffalo and Erie County Historical Society Museum Shop Elmwood Avenue and Nottingham Terrace Wednesday, December 1, 5-8 p.m. Open to the public. Call 873-9644 ext. 301 or visit our website www.bechs.org _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:10:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Stephen Baraban Subject: Mozart / 60 minutes prodigy In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20041129134406.04373120@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Music is a mathematical construct PLUS a lot more. W.A. Mozart GREW UP to write music of lasting significance AFTER the miracle of his childhood musical facility. Hopefully so will this childhood prodigy after his 60 Minutes fame. I suspect his music is not all that earth-shaking YET. --- Mark Weiss wrote: > Music is essentially a mathematical construct and as > such is inherently > different from poetry. Tho of course there have been > (a very few) very > great young poets--not as young as this kid. My > guess is that that's not as > likely to happen now because of our changed > expectations of poetry. > > Mark > > > At 12:22 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: > >Mark: > > > >It's weird, though. I was watching 60 Minutes last > night, the story of the > >child prodigy composer to whom the music just > comes, music being > >commissioned for him to write, and I think he's > about eight years old! Of > >course he's a prodigy, and so doesn't fit the mold. > But I think it's some of > >both. You need life experience, lots of it and as > varied as possible, in > >order to have something worth saying, and you must > also have a line open to > >your Muse, the Mystery from where the creative > impulse comes. As for this > >kid, for some unknown magic of the human brain, > he's tapped into something > >much larger than himself, something we poets also > have the privilege of > >glimpsing when we're writing well and beyond > ourselves. > > > >-Joel > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Mark Weiss" > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 5:50 PM > >Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > > > > You seem to be speaking from both sides of the > issue, which certainly > >makes > > > things more complex. My own part of this > discussion was more about the > > > health of poetry than about the health of > individual poets. The problem, > >it > > > seems to me, is the similarity of experience > that the institutionalization > > > of poetry has led to. Let's for a moment imagine > Milton without his day > >job > > > or in a parsonage like Herrick. He wrote some > pretty wonderful poetry > > > before taking on his political role, but > Lycidas, which marks the decision > > > to do so, is I think the best of the early work, > and his day job gave us > > > Paradise Lost, among a great deal else the best > political poem in the > > > language. Tho the job kept him away from verse > for a decade. > > > > > > Behind this discussion is I think another. I > take George Bowering's > > > statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. > It is not effected by a > > > set of circumstances affecting your life" as > expressing an extreme > > > aestheticist position. Sure, you have to decide > to write it in order to > > > write, a necessary, but not a sufficient, > condition. But that's not the > > > whole of it. > > > Unless a poem is just "a machine made of words" > (an aestheticist > > > pronouncement by one of the most engaged of > poets) experience > > > matters--having in whatever sense decided to > write one writes out of the > > > breadth of who we are, and that breadth (or > narrowness) of being is > > > expressed in everything we write, regardless of > intention. Otherwise we > > > risk being about as interesting as crossword > puzzles, which are also > > > machines made of words. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > At 08:06 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote: > > > > From a female (former and hopefully future) > manager's perspective, I > > > >would like to make this discussion so very much > more complex than it is > > > >now, somehow. There is so much play between > "like it should be" > > > >according to so many "them" and how one knows > it has to be for oneself. > > > > > > > > > > > >Early in what became my first career (and is > unfortunately looking like > > > >it will be my second career), I did look to > poets like Eliot (Pound > > > >"saved" him from the bank / himself), Williams, > et.al. I did feel that > > > >by having a day job, I was broadening my > experience. Also, while being > > > >a female technologist was a day in day out blow > to self confidence, the > > > >paychecks were a nice counterbalance to what > sometimes feels like > > > >constant utter writing failure. > > > > > > > >The same argument (the experience is good for > you, makes you better, > > > >more, etc.) is made for children as is made for > "real jobs". That you > > > >can never know what it is like to -- blah blah > -- that are you really > > > >human if you don't -- etc etc -- that you're > not participating in the > > > >larger society -- and I think that got > mentioned here in a small way. > > > >Maybe it should be mentioned in a big way. I > feel the societal and > > > >familial pressure for a woman -- me, any woman > -- to have children, > > > >followed by the lack of value placed on mothers > and children in the same > > > >society -- is the same sort of pressure that > bears on poet / career, > > > >poet / artist, and artist / money situations. > Blatant and outrageous > > > >misunderstanding of what it is to work and > write is everywhere. > > > > > > > >I don't pretend I would be a poet who would > visit a shopping mall like I > > > >would visit Mars. But -- why are sitcoms so > not funny? Why do most > > > >broad comedies not elicit laughter (except for > the schtick?)? Why is > > > >Billy Collins dull? (though I do find the > Victoria Secret > > > >discomfiting)? Many of these stories sell > something (via product > > > >placement), but they also sell something by > their situation, through > > > >their story. So they are extraordinarily dull > if you're outside the > > > >situation / audience / market. While I'd love > to slag Jim Belushi, > > > >sitcoms aren't funny because they're selling > stereotypes very seriously. > > > >And that is not funny. For the same reason, I > cringe whenever W makes a > > > >joke about making / not making his wife do > public speaking followed by > > > >the sure dry chuckle it elicits from his > audience. > > > > > > > >I waste a lot of time worrying that my detailed > knowledge about luxury > > > >objects is evil. But I DO write a great deal > about them. I DO have a > > > >nearly-book-length project having to do with > cooking... and the fashion > > > >designer poems in Da3 are a blend of criticism > about the designs and > > > >writings / quotes from the designers. > > > > > > > >All best, > > > >Catherine Daly > > > >cadaly@pacbell.net > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:25:40 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Bradshaw Subject: Re: what's correct quote? -- "The world exists . . . " In-Reply-To: <20041129181848.32055.qmail@qmail.fcc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed That sounds like Mallarme, from Quant au Livre (About the Book): "A proposition which emanates from myself ... affirms, in short, that everything in the world exists in order to end up as a book." (Michael Gibbs' version) JB >From: David Raphael Israel >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: what's correct quote? -- "The world exists . . . " >Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:18:48 -0500 > >Dear Poeticsters, > >There is a well-known, often-quoted sentence I'm trying to track down. >(Not entirely well-enough known to me, nor often enough quoted.) >I recall it's by a French writer, possibly symbolist poet(? -- no, >I think novelist) . . . > >My recollection is, it runs something like this: ><< The world was made [the world exists?] for the purpose of being put [by >me?] into a book. >> > >If somebody can point me to correct quotation / source / etc., >I'd be obliged. > >merci, >d.i. > > >| david raphael israel >| O t h e r S h o r e <> washington dc >| davidi@wizard.net >| (or davidi@othershore.net) >| >| also: info@othershore-arts.net >| http://www.othershore-arts.net >| >| Du Peihua's Hong Bu Jing -- world premiere at >| Viennale (Vienna Int'l Film Festival) Oct.25, 2004: >| http://www.viennale.at/en/programm/filme/1397.shtml ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:18:57 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Martin Larsen Subject: Re: what's correct quote? -- "The world exists . . . " In-Reply-To: <20041129181848.32055.qmail@qmail.fcc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That is Mallarm=E9: "tout, au monde, existe pour aboutir =E0 un livre." it's at http://www.mallarme.net/article244.html best, Martin Den 29/11-2004, kl. 19.18, skrev David Raphael Israel: > Dear Poeticsters, > > There is a well-known, often-quoted sentence I'm trying to track down. > (Not entirely well-enough known to me, nor often enough quoted.) > I recall it's by a French writer, possibly symbolist poet(? -- no, > I think novelist) . . . > > My recollection is, it runs something like this: > << The world was made [the world exists?] for the purpose of being put=20= > [by > me?] into a book. >> > > If somebody can point me to correct quotation / source / etc., > I'd be obliged. > > merci, > d.i. =20= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:01:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christina Milletti Subject: Steve Tomasula Reads at Exhibit X (in Buffalo) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit STEVE TOMASULA READS AT EXHIBIT X On Thursday December 2, fiction writer Steve Tomasula will be the second guest of the 2004-2005 season of the Exhibit X Fiction series. Tomasula will read a selection from his recent fiction, as well as answer audience questions about his on-going projects. All Exhibit X readings are free and open to the public. Time: 7:00pm Place: The reading will be held ½ block from Hallwalls’ new location at: Trinity Episcopal Church, The Chapel, 371 Delaware Avenue in Buffalo Steve Tomasula's short fiction has appeared widely and most recently in McSweeney's, Fiction International, and The Iowa Review where he received the Iowa Prize for the most distinguished work published in any genre. His essays on body art and culture appear in Leonardo (M.I.T. Press) and other magazines both here and in Europe. He is the author of the novels IN & OZ (Ministry of Whimsy Press, 2003) and VAS: An Opera in Flatland (Station Hill, 2003 and University of Chicago Press, 2004). Tomasula teaches at the University of Notre Dame. Reviews of Tomasula’s works: Steve Tomasula's extraordinary "novel" –-or is it a film script? collage art work? philosophical meditation? –-tracks the story of a "simple" event in the life of a 21st century family. But "story" is the wrong word here, for Tomasula's dissection of post-biological life is about the new interaction of bodies and DNA possibilities. Tomasula's imagination, his satiric edge, his wildly comic sense of things, combined with Farrell's inventive page lay-out make reading this "Opera in Flatland" an unforgettable experience. -Marjorie Perloff A breathtaking inquiry into the artifacts of the human imagination, VAS: An Opera in Flatland is sensuous, ferocious, and original. -Rikki Ducornet This novel constitutes a leap forward for the genre we call 'novel.' Collapsing nonfiction into fiction, women's reproductive concerns into men's, history into present, work into play—this novel takes juxtaposition and digression to new heights. -American Book Review About Exhibit X: As a series, Exhibit X hopes to distinguish itself among the rich body of reading series in Buffalo by showcasing writers of innovative and experimental fictions: authors who are not only writing cutting edge stories, but for whom an inquiry into the immediate situation of narrative, of what the genre "fiction" can be (and become) in a publishing market saturated by familiar forms, represents an on-going investigation. All readings take place off-campus at Hallwalls Contemporary Arts Center (www.hallwalls.org) so that students, faculty, and the community can take advantage of a unique opportunity to meet invited writers. The Exhibit X website—which will begin offering streaming audio of each event this Fall—can be found at http://www.english.buffalo.edu/exhibitx/. Exhibit X is sponsored by the English Department and the Dean of Arts and Sciences at the University of Buffalo. For more information about the series, contact Christina Milletti at milletti@buffalo.edu. Our Spring Events: Lydia Davis: TBA Kathryn Davis: March 28 Please join us! ____________________________ Christina Milletti Assistant Professor of English Director: Exhibit X Fiction Series University at Buffalo, SUNY Office: 533 Clemens Phone: 645-2575 ext 1056 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:00:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, you're right, not with poets, not that young, and music is different. So we return to the need for experience. However--I don't know too much about music, as I'm more visually oriented--can classical music be written without experience? After all, adults are playing this. I know that you need life experience to write Jazz, or the Blues. Is classical music so different? -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:48 AM Subject: Re: poetrying > Music is essentially a mathematical construct and as such is inherently > different from poetry. Tho of course there have been (a very few) very > great young poets--not as young as this kid. My guess is that that's not as > likely to happen now because of our changed expectations of poetry. > > Mark > > > At 12:22 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: > >Mark: > > > >It's weird, though. I was watching 60 Minutes last night, the story of the > >child prodigy composer to whom the music just comes, music being > >commissioned for him to write, and I think he's about eight years old! Of > >course he's a prodigy, and so doesn't fit the mold. But I think it's some of > >both. You need life experience, lots of it and as varied as possible, in > >order to have something worth saying, and you must also have a line open to > >your Muse, the Mystery from where the creative impulse comes. As for this > >kid, for some unknown magic of the human brain, he's tapped into something > >much larger than himself, something we poets also have the privilege of > >glimpsing when we're writing well and beyond ourselves. > > > >-Joel > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Mark Weiss" > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 5:50 PM > >Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > > > > You seem to be speaking from both sides of the issue, which certainly > >makes > > > things more complex. My own part of this discussion was more about the > > > health of poetry than about the health of individual poets. The problem, > >it > > > seems to me, is the similarity of experience that the institutionalization > > > of poetry has led to. Let's for a moment imagine Milton without his day > >job > > > or in a parsonage like Herrick. He wrote some pretty wonderful poetry > > > before taking on his political role, but Lycidas, which marks the decision > > > to do so, is I think the best of the early work, and his day job gave us > > > Paradise Lost, among a great deal else the best political poem in the > > > language. Tho the job kept him away from verse for a decade. > > > > > > Behind this discussion is I think another. I take George Bowering's > > > statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. It is not effected by a > > > set of circumstances affecting your life" as expressing an extreme > > > aestheticist position. Sure, you have to decide to write it in order to > > > write, a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition. But that's not the > > > whole of it. > > > Unless a poem is just "a machine made of words" (an aestheticist > > > pronouncement by one of the most engaged of poets) experience > > > matters--having in whatever sense decided to write one writes out of the > > > breadth of who we are, and that breadth (or narrowness) of being is > > > expressed in everything we write, regardless of intention. Otherwise we > > > risk being about as interesting as crossword puzzles, which are also > > > machines made of words. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > At 08:06 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote: > > > > From a female (former and hopefully future) manager's perspective, I > > > >would like to make this discussion so very much more complex than it is > > > >now, somehow. There is so much play between "like it should be" > > > >according to so many "them" and how one knows it has to be for oneself. > > > > > > > > > > > >Early in what became my first career (and is unfortunately looking like > > > >it will be my second career), I did look to poets like Eliot (Pound > > > >"saved" him from the bank / himself), Williams, et.al. I did feel that > > > >by having a day job, I was broadening my experience. Also, while being > > > >a female technologist was a day in day out blow to self confidence, the > > > >paychecks were a nice counterbalance to what sometimes feels like > > > >constant utter writing failure. > > > > > > > >The same argument (the experience is good for you, makes you better, > > > >more, etc.) is made for children as is made for "real jobs". That you > > > >can never know what it is like to -- blah blah -- that are you really > > > >human if you don't -- etc etc -- that you're not participating in the > > > >larger society -- and I think that got mentioned here in a small way. > > > >Maybe it should be mentioned in a big way. I feel the societal and > > > >familial pressure for a woman -- me, any woman -- to have children, > > > >followed by the lack of value placed on mothers and children in the same > > > >society -- is the same sort of pressure that bears on poet / career, > > > >poet / artist, and artist / money situations. Blatant and outrageous > > > >misunderstanding of what it is to work and write is everywhere. > > > > > > > >I don't pretend I would be a poet who would visit a shopping mall like I > > > >would visit Mars. But -- why are sitcoms so not funny? Why do most > > > >broad comedies not elicit laughter (except for the schtick?)? Why is > > > >Billy Collins dull? (though I do find the Victoria Secret > > > >discomfiting)? Many of these stories sell something (via product > > > >placement), but they also sell something by their situation, through > > > >their story. So they are extraordinarily dull if you're outside the > > > >situation / audience / market. While I'd love to slag Jim Belushi, > > > >sitcoms aren't funny because they're selling stereotypes very seriously. > > > >And that is not funny. For the same reason, I cringe whenever W makes a > > > >joke about making / not making his wife do public speaking followed by > > > >the sure dry chuckle it elicits from his audience. > > > > > > > >I waste a lot of time worrying that my detailed knowledge about luxury > > > >objects is evil. But I DO write a great deal about them. I DO have a > > > >nearly-book-length project having to do with cooking... and the fashion > > > >designer poems in Da3 are a blend of criticism about the designs and > > > >writings / quotes from the designers. > > > > > > > >All best, > > > >Catherine Daly > > > >cadaly@pacbell.net > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:08:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 28-Nov-04, at 1:11 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: > On 29/11/04 7:32 AM, "George Bowering" wrote: > >> So, listen, if you have a dull job, you can forget ever writing >> interesting >> poetry, you poor things. > > This made me laugh, George. It applies in spades to women - with that > attitude goes the idea that, say, women who do such anerotic things as > looking after children can't write interetsing poems (such things have > been > said to me, so I know some people think that way). Surely Emily D > hardly > had an interesting life? > > Writers very often lead dull lives. They're writers, for godsake. > It's not > exactly a spectator sport. As you say, you effect poetry by writing > it. > > Best > > A > Exactly. Lorine Niedecker scrubbed hospital floors for a living. You know, I dont get bored by her poems. gb ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:15:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Mozart / 60 minutes prodigy In-Reply-To: <20041129191014.52756.qmail@web51905.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Of course. But rather misses my limited point. There are not likely to be any eight year old poetry prodigies. Mark At 02:10 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: >Music is a mathematical construct PLUS a lot more. >W.A. Mozart GREW UP to write music of lasting >significance AFTER the miracle of his childhood >musical facility. > >Hopefully so will this childhood prodigy after his 60 >Minutes fame. I suspect his music is not all that >earth-shaking YET. > >--- Mark Weiss wrote: > > > Music is essentially a mathematical construct and as > > such is inherently > > different from poetry. Tho of course there have been > > (a very few) very > > great young poets--not as young as this kid. My > > guess is that that's not as > > likely to happen now because of our changed > > expectations of poetry. > > > > Mark > > > > > > At 12:22 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: > > >Mark: > > > > > >It's weird, though. I was watching 60 Minutes last > > night, the story of the > > >child prodigy composer to whom the music just > > comes, music being > > >commissioned for him to write, and I think he's > > about eight years old! Of > > >course he's a prodigy, and so doesn't fit the mold. > > But I think it's some of > > >both. You need life experience, lots of it and as > > varied as possible, in > > >order to have something worth saying, and you must > > also have a line open to > > >your Muse, the Mystery from where the creative > > impulse comes. As for this > > >kid, for some unknown magic of the human brain, > > he's tapped into something > > >much larger than himself, something we poets also > > have the privilege of > > >glimpsing when we're writing well and beyond > > ourselves. > > > > > >-Joel > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Mark Weiss" > > >To: > > >Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 5:50 PM > > >Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be speaking from both sides of the > > issue, which certainly > > >makes > > > > things more complex. My own part of this > > discussion was more about the > > > > health of poetry than about the health of > > individual poets. The problem, > > >it > > > > seems to me, is the similarity of experience > > that the institutionalization > > > > of poetry has led to. Let's for a moment imagine > > Milton without his day > > >job > > > > or in a parsonage like Herrick. He wrote some > > pretty wonderful poetry > > > > before taking on his political role, but > > Lycidas, which marks the decision > > > > to do so, is I think the best of the early work, > > and his day job gave us > > > > Paradise Lost, among a great deal else the best > > political poem in the > > > > language. Tho the job kept him away from verse > > for a decade. > > > > > > > > Behind this discussion is I think another. I > > take George Bowering's > > > > statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. > > It is not effected by a > > > > set of circumstances affecting your life" as > > expressing an extreme > > > > aestheticist position. Sure, you have to decide > > to write it in order to > > > > write, a necessary, but not a sufficient, > > condition. But that's not the > > > > whole of it. > > > > Unless a poem is just "a machine made of words" > > (an aestheticist > > > > pronouncement by one of the most engaged of > > poets) experience > > > > matters--having in whatever sense decided to > > write one writes out of the > > > > breadth of who we are, and that breadth (or > > narrowness) of being is > > > > expressed in everything we write, regardless of > > intention. Otherwise we > > > > risk being about as interesting as crossword > > puzzles, which are also > > > > machines made of words. > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:06 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote: > > > > > From a female (former and hopefully future) > > manager's perspective, I > > > > >would like to make this discussion so very much > > more complex than it is > > > > >now, somehow. There is so much play between > > "like it should be" > > > > >according to so many "them" and how one knows > > it has to be for oneself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Early in what became my first career (and is > > unfortunately looking like > > > > >it will be my second career), I did look to > > poets like Eliot (Pound > > > > >"saved" him from the bank / himself), Williams, > > et.al. I did feel that > > > > >by having a day job, I was broadening my > > experience. Also, while being > > > > >a female technologist was a day in day out blow > > to self confidence, the > > > > >paychecks were a nice counterbalance to what > > sometimes feels like > > > > >constant utter writing failure. > > > > > > > > > >The same argument (the experience is good for > > you, makes you better, > > > > >more, etc.) is made for children as is made for > > "real jobs". That you > > > > >can never know what it is like to -- blah blah > > -- that are you really > > > > >human if you don't -- etc etc -- that you're > > not participating in the > > > > >larger society -- and I think that got > > mentioned here in a small way. > > > > >Maybe it should be mentioned in a big way. I > > feel the societal and > > > > >familial pressure for a woman -- me, any woman > > -- to have children, > > > > >followed by the lack of value placed on mothers > > and children in the same > > > > >society -- is the same sort of pressure that > > bears on poet / career, > > > > >poet / artist, and artist / money situations. > > Blatant and outrageous > > > > >misunderstanding of what it is to work and > > write is everywhere. > > > > > > > > > >I don't pretend I would be a poet who would > > visit a shopping mall like I > > > > >would visit Mars. But -- why are sitcoms so > > not funny? Why do most > > > > >broad comedies not elicit laughter (except for > > the schtick?)? Why is > > > > >Billy Collins dull? (though I do find the > > Victoria Secret > > > > >discomfiting)? Many of these stories sell > > something (via product > > > > >placement), but they also sell something by > > their situation, through > > > > >their story. So they are extraordinarily dull > > if you're outside the > > > > >situation / audience / market. While I'd love > > to slag Jim Belushi, > > > > >sitcoms aren't funny because they're selling > > stereotypes very seriously. > > > > >And that is not funny. For the same reason, I > > cringe whenever W makes a > > > > >joke about making / not making his wife do > > public speaking followed by > > > > >the sure dry chuckle it elicits from his > > audience. > > > > > > > > > >I waste a lot of time worrying that my detailed > > knowledge about luxury > > > > >objects is evil. But I DO write a great deal > > about them. I DO have a > > > > >nearly-book-length project having to do with > > cooking... and the fashion > > > > >designer poems in Da3 are a blend of criticism > > about the designs and > > > > >writings / quotes from the designers. > > > > > > > > > >All best, > > > > >Catherine Daly > > > > >cadaly@pacbell.net > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. >http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:32:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: poetry work In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 28-Nov-04, at 9:35 PM, Kwsherwood@AOL.COM wrote: > George: > > I think I nearly share your sense of poetry and work, wanting to avoid > any > deterministic notion that wagelabor and such produce a poetry (or > not). But as > you bring in Zukofsky, Williams, Niedecker, et al it has me thinking > too about > how crucial sometimes lousy work turned out to be in their writing. I > spent > some time reading Zukofsky's WPA research essays on American crafts > (his paid, > day job) against contemporary portions of "A". One wishes him a > "better job" or > perhaps even a fellowship! But the poem wouldn't be the same. No > transcendence there. > > Ken Sherwood Yes, I think you have the two-sidedness of the question right. I dont think, for example, that Niedecker's poetry would be any less interesting if she had had a high-class job as a social worker or therapist. gb ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:31:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <002401c4d638$096c1f50$96fdfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He's twelve, I believe, but once he was eight. Hal { Mark: { { It's weird, though. I was watching 60 Minutes last night, the story of the { child prodigy composer to whom the music just comes, music being { commissioned for him to write, and I think he's about eight years old! Of { course he's a prodigy, and so doesn't fit the mold. But I think it's some of { both. You need life experience, lots of it and as varied as possible, in { order to have something worth saying, and you must also have a line open to { your Muse, the Mystery from where the creative impulse comes. As for this { kid, for some unknown magic of the human brain, he's tapped into something { much larger than himself, something we poets also have the privilege of { glimpsing when we're writing well and beyond ourselves. { { -Joel { { { ----- Original Message ----- { From: "Mark Weiss" { To: { Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 5:50 PM { Subject: Re: poetrying { { { > You seem to be speaking from both sides of the issue, which certainly { makes { > things more complex. My own part of this discussion was more about the { > health of poetry than about the health of individual poets. The problem, { it { > seems to me, is the similarity of experience that the institutionalization { > of poetry has led to. Let's for a moment imagine Milton without his day { job { > or in a parsonage like Herrick. He wrote some pretty wonderful poetry { > before taking on his political role, but Lycidas, which marks the decision { > to do so, is I think the best of the early work, and his day job gave us { > Paradise Lost, among a great deal else the best political poem in the { > language. Tho the job kept him away from verse for a decade. { > { > Behind this discussion is I think another. I take George Bowering's { > statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. It is not effected by a { > set of circumstances affecting your life" as expressing an extreme { > aestheticist position. Sure, you have to decide to write it in order to { > write, a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition. But that's not the { > whole of it. { > Unless a poem is just "a machine made of words" (an aestheticist { > pronouncement by one of the most engaged of poets) experience { > matters--having in whatever sense decided to write one writes out of the { > breadth of who we are, and that breadth (or narrowness) of being is { > expressed in everything we write, regardless of intention. Otherwise we { > risk being about as interesting as crossword puzzles, which are also { > machines made of words. { > { > Mark { > { > { > At 08:06 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote: { > > From a female (former and hopefully future) manager's perspective, I { > >would like to make this discussion so very much more complex than it is { > >now, somehow. There is so much play between "like it should be" { > >according to so many "them" and how one knows it has to be for oneself. { > > { > > { > >Early in what became my first career (and is unfortunately looking like { > >it will be my second career), I did look to poets like Eliot (Pound { > >"saved" him from the bank / himself), Williams, et.al. I did feel that { > >by having a day job, I was broadening my experience. Also, while being { > >a female technologist was a day in day out blow to self confidence, the { > >paychecks were a nice counterbalance to what sometimes feels like { > >constant utter writing failure. { > > { > >The same argument (the experience is good for you, makes you better, { > >more, etc.) is made for children as is made for "real jobs". That you { > >can never know what it is like to -- blah blah -- that are you really { > >human if you don't -- etc etc -- that you're not participating in the { > >larger society -- and I think that got mentioned here in a small way. { > >Maybe it should be mentioned in a big way. I feel the societal and { > >familial pressure for a woman -- me, any woman -- to have children, { > >followed by the lack of value placed on mothers and children in the same { > >society -- is the same sort of pressure that bears on poet / career, { > >poet / artist, and artist / money situations. Blatant and outrageous { > >misunderstanding of what it is to work and write is everywhere. { > > { > >I don't pretend I would be a poet who would visit a shopping mall like I { > >would visit Mars. But -- why are sitcoms so not funny? Why do most { > >broad comedies not elicit laughter (except for the schtick?)? Why is { > >Billy Collins dull? (though I do find the Victoria Secret { > >discomfiting)? Many of these stories sell something (via product { > >placement), but they also sell something by their situation, through { > >their story. So they are extraordinarily dull if you're outside the { > >situation / audience / market. While I'd love to slag Jim Belushi, { > >sitcoms aren't funny because they're selling stereotypes very seriously. { > >And that is not funny. For the same reason, I cringe whenever W makes a { > >joke about making / not making his wife do public speaking followed by { > >the sure dry chuckle it elicits from his audience. { > > { > >I waste a lot of time worrying that my detailed knowledge about luxury { > >objects is evil. But I DO write a great deal about them. I DO have a { > >nearly-book-length project having to do with cooking... and the fashion { > >designer poems in Da3 are a blend of criticism about the designs and { > >writings / quotes from the designers. { > > { > >All best, { > >Catherine Daly { > >cadaly@pacbell.net { > { ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:17:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: zen medication Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 tai chi then chai tea www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:59:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: poetrying Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" this argument about experience and its relation to poetry begins to sound not a little reductive... look, one's poetry, one's view of one's poetry, one's view of one's poetry in relation to one's life, which of course has all to do with one's poetry: all of these at some point connect with one's experience... to suggest that experience has nothing to do with one's art (or job) is nonsense... to suggest that experience dictates---or overdetermines---the final form of art (if you'll permit me this wee aristotelian incursion) is also nonsense... apologies for my seeming impatience about this stuff... but to speak in formal terms of "poetry" as though it exists independently of the circumstances out of which it springs just strikes me as the most reductively formalist approach possible... at the same time, to draw a straight line (as it were) from the art form to some specific experiential matrix might not be the best way to go about comprehending said art form... SHEESH best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:10:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Daniel Charles Thomas Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii sum wan Haas sed How many more poems do we need from someone who grew up in a liberal suburb went to (Add Elite School Here) and then went to Iowa or Brown or NYU and is now living in New York writing? BUTT oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo that is JUST toooooo subtle for miiiiiiiii NOT way not No knot naughty naughty whip the little elitist bastard alll theeeeee weigh-in&out back to corn and prim and radical chic whatever the hell "school" you want but Jeepers Creepers Jimminy Cricket Jumpin'Jehosaphat I dewwww love reading the DIScourse here hmmmmm oh yeah give me MORE! BUT (mmm Emerson said he shoulda made the "but" bigger when he saw what Whitman did with his "review" heh hee heh grackle cackle) but - how many more endless thrashings does the bad boy need to get all the piss beaten out of him once & for all cliche his statue is still standing in some europeeeeon city or another and the tourists click clik klak but what the hell I am only coffeeee clatschking kvetch yep keep it up y'all make me smile ahhhh excuse me........................ F L U S H oooopsss I forgot it goes right into the river here in TiJei je je je they're coming to take me away RED LIGHT inspection papers please call for hygenic papers please call for papers please papers call please papers for call please Joust DONT crawll me lateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee for dinnerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr grrrr mmmmmmmmmmm kiss kiss hug hug damn I love reading this list kudos to all of you okei bai okay bye ya puse mi peso y adios tijuanagringo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:15:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Raphael Israel Subject: Re: what's correct quote? -- =?utf-8?B?IlRoZQ==?= world exists . . . =?utf-8?B?Ig==?= In-Reply-To: <20041129181848.32055.qmail@qmail.fcc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks y'all for the several pointers; glad to (re)learn it's Mallarme's. for what worth: I've been trying various restatements of it. Here's one such effort: | Thus affirms an apothegm that began with me | all in the world exists for to end on a DVD I don't know how "proposition" in French compares with the same word in English; I assume they're quite close in sense. The above is slightly forced, yet not far from the conceipt I've had in mind. "for to end" is awkward (albeit oldenly ideomatic). Apothegm is even more archaic perhaps; but the rhyming instinct will out. I've scrawled a dozen or more versions of this couplet, and might perhaps end with this one. I'm ignoring the text covered (by J.Bradshaw) by an elipsis . . . ah well. thanks again -- d.i. / / / Joseph Bradshaw Subject: Re: what's correct quote? -- "The world exists . . . " In-Reply-To: <20041129181848.32055.qmail@qmail.fcc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed That sounds like Mallarme, from Quant au Livre (About the Book): "A proposition which emanates from myself ... affirms, in short, that everything in the world exists in order to end up as a book." (Michael Gibbs' version) JB > Dear Poeticsters, > > There is a well-known, often-quoted sentence I'm trying to track down. > (Not entirely well-enough known to me, nor often enough quoted.) > I recall it's by a French writer, possibly symbolist poet(? -- no, > I think novelist) . . . > > My recollection is, it runs something like this: > << The world was made [the world exists?] for the purpose of being put [by > me?] into a book. >> > > If somebody can point me to correct quotation / source / etc., > I'd be obliged. > > merci, > d.i. > > > | david raphael israel > | O t h e r S h o r e <> washington dc > | davidi@wizard.net > | (or davidi@othershore.net) > | > | also: info@othershore-arts.net > | http://www.othershore-arts.net > | > | Du Peihua's Hong Bu Jing -- world premiere at > | Viennale (Vienna Int'l Film Festival) Oct.25, 2004: > | http://www.viennale.at/en/programm/filme/1397.shtml ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:18:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: [eliterature] Brown U. E-writing Fellowship Deadline is December 15 (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:46:24 -0000 From: waldonia2000 To: eliterature@yahoogroups.com Subject: [eliterature] Brown U. E-writing Fellowship Deadline is December 15 December 15, 2004 is the deadline for applying for Brown University's two-year electronic writing fellowship. The fellowship is awarded to a writer working in digital media in order to pursue ewriting in Brown University's prestigious Graduate Program in Literary Arts. To apply, see the program's MFA admissions requirements at http://www.brown.edu/Departments/English/Writing/admissions.htm. Carol Ann Wald Program Assistant Electronic Literature Organization The Electronic Literature Organization is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization with a mission to promote and facilitate the writing, reading, and publishing of electronic literature. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eliterature/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: eliterature-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:22:33 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: poetrying Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm with Joe on this thread... -----Original Message----- From: Joe Amato Sent: Nov 29, 2004 4:59 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: poetrying this argument about experience and its relation to poetry begins to sound not a little reductive... look, one's poetry, one's view of one's poetry, one's view of one's poetry in relation to one's life, which of course has all to do with one's poetry: all of these at some point connect with one's experience... to suggest that experience has nothing to do with one's art (or job) is nonsense... to suggest that experience dictates---or overdetermines---the final form of art (if you'll permit me this wee aristotelian incursion) is also nonsense... apologies for my seeming impatience about this stuff... but to speak in formal terms of "poetry" as though it exists independently of the circumstances out of which it springs just strikes me as the most reductively formalist approach possible... at the same time, to draw a straight line (as it were) from the art form to some specific experiential matrix might not be the best way to go about comprehending said art form... SHEESH best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:42:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Don Summerhayes Subject: Re: what's correct quote? -- "The world exists . . . " In-Reply-To: <20041129181848.32055.qmail@qmail.fcc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Raphael Israel wrote: > Dear Poeticsters, > > There is a well-known, often-quoted sentence I'm trying to track down. > (Not entirely well-enough known to me, nor often enough quoted.) > I recall it's by a French writer, possibly symbolist poet(? -- no, > I think novelist) . . . > > My recollection is, it runs something like this: > << The world was made [the world exists?] for the purpose of being put > [by > me?] into a book. >> > > If somebody can point me to correct quotation / source / etc., > I'd be obliged. > > merci, > d.i. > > > | david raphael israel > | O t h e r S h o r e <> washington dc > | davidi@wizard.net > | (or davidi@othershore.net) > | > | also: info@othershore-arts.net > | http://www.othershore-arts.net > | > | Du Peihua's Hong Bu Jing -- world premiere at > | Viennale (Vienna Int'l Film Festival) Oct.25, 2004: > | http://www.viennale.at/en/programm/filme/1397.shtml Don't know that one, but it reminds me of a favorite by Unamuno: La palabra se inventa para mentir. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:59:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: what's correct quote? -- "The world exists . . . " In-Reply-To: <41ABA5D9.5040305@yorku.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I keep thinking of an opposite view from the Mallarme, particularly the way in which evangelicals - of any intractable persuasion - want the world and you to mirror The Bible, The Koran, etc. and you be damned to hell if you don't. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com Sleeping With Sappho (a faux ebook) now at: http://www.fauxpress.com/e/vincent/ > David Raphael Israel wrote: > >> Dear Poeticsters, >> >> There is a well-known, often-quoted sentence I'm trying to track down. >> (Not entirely well-enough known to me, nor often enough quoted.) >> I recall it's by a French writer, possibly symbolist poet(? -- no, >> I think novelist) . . . >> >> My recollection is, it runs something like this: >> << The world was made [the world exists?] for the purpose of being put >> [by >> me?] into a book. >> >> >> If somebody can point me to correct quotation / source / etc., >> I'd be obliged. >> >> merci, >> d.i. >> >> >> | david raphael israel >> | O t h e r S h o r e <> washington dc >> | davidi@wizard.net >> | (or davidi@othershore.net) >> | >> | also: info@othershore-arts.net >> | http://www.othershore-arts.net >> | >> | Du Peihua's Hong Bu Jing -- world premiere at >> | Viennale (Vienna Int'l Film Festival) Oct.25, 2004: >> | http://www.viennale.at/en/programm/filme/1397.shtml > > Don't know that one, but it reminds me of a favorite by Unamuno: La > palabra se inventa para mentir. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:11:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Snake Polisher's Shorter Paradise Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed disdain I eye the dead the younger chase whilst wipe I clean the heads of reptiles passive as sunbeams and dear like day! their air is mine! O sea! O sea who outbuilt Daedalus, that heedless profounder, must Hades knoweth serpents that to the Pleiades sing? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:22:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: midnight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Buried in a beginning, the poem starts with every line there are 1,000 names of midnight or rather there are as many movements as if that word was in all those directions Crazy moon breathing a sigh of each turning night dances full a dream of ecstasy released in meditation that comes down like rain & rises & falls about an orbit eyes closed upon a rhythm pulsating how the dance raptures a life of longing sheathed in passion echoes through the midnight fog & then there is this one this one is aloud without saying a word here I wanders the path away from myself in the vastness of midnight’s movement 1 million gestures without rest stirring through the hours a sill, waters breath up & down an orbit to this night a lover chants the cutting symbol which opens the shadow of an oak tree what is that? She points at the breaks in its trunk. That’s a vagina & that is her arched back turns over the dance of shades ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:49:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: join the bandwagon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://csmonitor.com/2004/1130/p13s01-legn.html Poetry is now so popular that British universities face a supply-and-demand dilemma. So many students want to sign up for poetry classes that there are not enough professional poets to teach them. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:46:39 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Alaric Sumner's writing - request for help Comments: To: ukpoetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Apologies for cross-posting On Friday 26 February 1999, Alaric Sumner delivered a paper - = _Straddling L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=3DE and Performance Writing: two = women writing in Britain - Carlyle Reedy and Caroline Bergvall_ in a = panel called _"Transgressive Prediscoveries": Women Writing L A N G U A = G E_ at the 1999 Twentieth-Century Literature Conference, University of = Louisville, Louisville, Kentucky from 25-27 February 1999 As far as I know the paper was never published; and I do not have a full = text. It is related to a talk he gave on Carlyle Reedy at a SVP = Colloquium in London; and another on Reedy and dsh given at University = of Westminster (and later printed in HJEAS Vol 5 #2); but it is not the = same. And while I have a late draft of what he said of Reedy, it is the = writing on Bergvall which is still missing The host university does not have a copy. The chair of the panel does = not have one. I wonder if anyone reading this does, or can throw any light on the = matter. Please get in touch if you can. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:20:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Baghdad & "Burn" Reality Wash Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable (Excuse any cross-posting. Thanks.) Yesterday I did see "Burn". It's a terrific movie about the manipulation of power among colonizers and slaves (and revolts) in the Caribbean in 1842. Marlon Brando plays the English quo agent quo God father on an island in th= e Antilles in a film made by the same director of the Battle of Algiers. Of course, the economics and behavior of white settlers was contemporary to al= l of the Americas (cooperate or genocide), as well as to the contemporary moment in Iraq and other "opportunity zones". Cheney our current image of the enforcer. It's a definitely film that is as resonant and disturbing today as when it was made in the early seventies. The obliteration of Fallujeh and the obliteration of rebel slave hideouts in the Antilles is wa= y too close for any comfort - and all quite correspondent with this grievous and disturbing account of Fallujeh and Bagdad in today's B Burning: Baghdad Burning ... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and soul= s can mend... Monday, November 29, 2004 =A0 Tired in Baghdad... The situation in Falloojeh is worse than anyone can possibly describe. It has turned into one of those cities you see in your darkest nightmares- broken streets strewn with corpses, crumbling houses and fallen mosques... The worst part is that for the last couple of weeks we've been hearing abou= t the use of chemical weapons inside Falloojeh by the Americans. Today we heard that the delegation from the Iraqi Ministry of Health isn't being allowed into the city, for some reason. I don't know about the chemical weapons. It's not that I think the American military is above the use of chemical weapons, it's just that I keep wondering if they'd be crazy enough to do it. I keep having flashbacks of that video they showed on tv, the mosque and all the corpses. There was one brief video that showed the same mosque a day before, strewn with many of the same bodies- but some of them were alive. In that video, there's this old man leaning against the wall and there was blood running out of his eyes- almost like he was crying tears of blood. What 'conventional' weaponr= y makes the eyes bleed? They say that a morgue in Baghdad has received the corpses of citizens in Falloojeh who have died under seemingly mysterious conditions.=20 The wounded in Falloojeh aren't getting treatment and today we heard about = a family with six children being bombed in the city. It's difficult to believ= e that in this day and age, when people are blogging, emailing and communicating at the speed of light, a whole city is being destroyed and genocide is being committed- and the whole world is aware and silent. Darfur, Americans? Take a look at what you've done in Falloojeh. The situation in Baghdad isn't a lot better. Electricity has been particularly bad. Our telephone has been cut off for the last week which ha= s made communication (and blogging) particularly difficult. The phone difficulties are quite common all over Baghdad. It usually happens in an area after a fresh bombing. We joke amongst ourselves that it's all an agreement with the new mobile phone companies, but the truth is that the mobile phones aren't very much more reliable. For the last couple of weeks we've been able to receive sms from abroad (which was impossible before). It's nice to get a message every once in a while from some concerned relative or friend living far away, especially when the phone starts glowin= g eerily in the darkened living room. We spent the last week fixing up the house. Around 10 days ago, there were = a series of very large explosions in our area and the third or fourth one too= k out three of the windows on one side of the house. Riverbend and family spent two days gathering shattered glass and sticking sheets of plastic ove= r the gaping squares that were once windows. We sent E. for the window guy bu= t he was booked for three days. Our window man has become a virtual millionaire with an average of about 20 windows to replace daily. The situation is really bad in Baghdad. Many areas have turned into mini-warzones. A'miriyah, A'adhamiyah, Ghazaliyah and Haifa to name a few. The rest of us just get our usual dose of daily explosions and gun fire. Elections are a mystery. No one knows if they'll actually take place and it feels like many people don't want to have anything to do with them. They aren't going to be legitimate any way. The only political parties participating in them are the same ones who made up the Governing Council several months ago- Allawi's group, Chalabi's group, SCIRI, Da'awa and some others. Allawi, in spite of all his posturing and posing, has turned himsel= f into a hateful figure after what happened in Falloojeh. As long as he is in a position of power, America will be occupying Iraq. People realize that now. He's Bush's boy. He has proved that time and again and people are tire= d of waiting for something insightful or original to come from his government= . The weather is cool now. You can't leave the house without a jacket. Baghda= d is popular for a dry, windy cold. The kind that settles in late, but once it's here, it seems to creep into everything, including one's bones. The kerosene heater has become my cherished friend these last couple of weeks. The days are much shorter and it gets a bit depressing when the darkness sets in- especially when there's no electricity. We aren't using the generator as much as before because there's still a fuel shortage. There's a collective exhaustion that seems to have settled on Baghdad... it feels almost like an epidemic sometimes. ********** Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:12:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Bush and mental tests Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Apparently Ron Paul, as Texas senator, attempted to add 'parental consent language' to a bill that just passed (Labor, HHS, and Education Appropriations Act for FY 2005)...this was not included in the final bill. What I can't seem to find is much information about what is going on with this... It's my understanding that this new law allows 'outside stakeholders' to supervise 'mental tests' of school-aged children without parental consent. I know Illinois has passed this legislation and I believe yesterday it was passed nationally. The overarching goal is to establish a permanent electronic mental health record for all Americans so health insurers etc will have access. So, whatever the gov't deems unhealthy will be eradicated with pills--with drug companies like Eli Lilly making even more money to support the neo-cons, of course All I can find right now is this conservative web site (of all places!) ... these Constitutionalists see this of course as a huge Draconian measure (so do I) ... if anyone can dig up anything on this new scary measure let me know ... oh, it was mentioned on Daily Kos as well ... so both sides of the aisle see this as Orwellian. http://www.conservativeusa.org/mentaltesting.htm _____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:03:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Raphael Israel Subject: Re: what's correct quote? -- "The world exists . . . " MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Here's a further take on this: Afresh Mallarm=E9=92s apothegm bewildered me all things abide in the world to become a DVD [2nd line preferably italicized] cheers, d.i. | david raphael israel | O t h e r S h o r e <> washington dc | davidi@wizard.net | | http://www.othershore-arts.net | | Du Peihua's Hong Bu Jing -- world premiere at | Viennale (Vienna Int'l Film Festival) Oct.25, 2004: | http://www.viennale.at/en/programm/filme/1397.shtml ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:42:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: sharing leftovers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit don't keep leftovers in your pocket overnight manna prepared by loving angels turns to maggots use it or lose it sweet dew everywhere keep leftover angels overnight they dissolve in your mouth like honey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 01:08:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** Boog City: Distributor Needed/Advertise In ** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi all, Two Boog City emails in one here. First, we need someone with a car who wants to make some extra $$ by distributing Boog City once a month (hell, just this month will do for now) to 44 drop spots, 36 in lower Manhattan (26 in the East Village) and eight in Williamsburg. Upcoming issue goes to press this friday and needs to be distributed this weekend. Email editor@boogcity.com or call (212) 842-2664. Secondly, a last minute call for ads for the issue. We are once again offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also applies on larger ads.) Ads must be in by Thurs., Dec. 2 (please reserve space ASAP and we can design ads). (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) Issue will be distributed this weekend. Once again, email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. thanks, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 01:17:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Rod Smith this Friday in MA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed So a little birdie said to me that Rod Smith will be reading this Friday at Amherst Books in Amherst MA. The birdie didn't tell me the time, but I think it might be at 8pm, which would be nice, as I get off work from a different bookstore, located across the river in Northampton, at around 6pm, enough time to have dinner and head over to the reading. Of course, I could be wrong--it might start at 7pm, in which case I'll have to go with something quick. Anyhow, the point is: if you live near Amherst MA (1:45 hrs from Boston; 2 hrs from Providence; 1 hr from Wesleyan or Yale Univ; 3 hrs [to 7 hrs-- depending on traffic ] from NYC; etc.) you should come. From what the birdie says Rod's going to do two sets: one of which might be "The Good House" in it's entirety. See, you really should come! A few years ago I did a micro review of that poem which I'll paste here: Regarding the composition of Tender Buttons, Gertrude Stein noted “I began to discover the names of things, that is not discover the names but discover the things the things to see the things to look at and in so doing I had of course to name them. . . .” This process of circling around the essence of a noun in order to enliven it sets the foundation for The Good House, Smith’s latest chapbook-length poem. The sixth beautifully produced title from Spectacular Books, The Good House is an investigation not only of the concepts of house, home, and domesticity (“Any sung house requires / calligraphy, camp, & / curtains—all too cute yes / yet one tires of burnt / toys, dry fetishes, dead / humor, & clocks.”) but also of the language in which such concepts are rooted. Welcomely, Smith animates much of the tiresome postmodern/linguistic debates of the last few decades with his wacky sense of humor, as when he asserts that “the house seems / to be a verb though it dislikes / the term ‘housing’.” Smith’s exploration of the way in which a house is at once in constant flux (“sometimes house, sometimes home”) and complete stasis (“That it is a house. / That it never moves. / That it loses concentration.”) might read simply as an analogy for poetry, but he is careful to defuse such an easy out: “If the house is just poetry / we’re in trouble.” As Lorca knew, “very often intellect is poetry’s enemy,” and Smith, through his syntactical play and the twisting, elongation, or complication of phrasings, moves one just beyond an overall intellectual comprehension of his work and toward the more rewarding sphere of intuitive knowledge, where “anything can be made out of a house.” ______________ okay, I'm done. If you want more info on the reading try emailing Steve Zultanski (the little birdy) here: jesuiscoca@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 18:26:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nick, The meaning for me was obvious: if you haven't made it, you're still a = virgin, still masturbating...still writing only for yourself, not = writing for nor with your audience, who ever the hell that may be.=20 I remember that comment, (or at least a similar one), but damned if I = can recall whom to thank for having made the point) and I remember = feeling angry at the time I read it, because I was then 45 or so. And = of course it is possible the person from whom I read the point = plagiarized the comment.=20 And, at the time, I also remember thinking, "what exactly is, 'making' = it?" =20 I've still not answered that question. alex =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Nick Piombino=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:31 PM Subject: Re: poetrying I was disturbed to learn that a well-known critic of innovative poetry has been quoted as pointing out that if "You do not make it as a poet by your 40's you will not make it at all." What might this critic have meant by that? Nick Piombino On 11/28/04 3:47 PM, "Joel Weishaus" = > wrote: > Hey Miekal: > > It doesn't so much have to do with age as with having gone through = the > process of mimesis, which students must do, and arriving at what is = uniquely > you. In this sense, most poets never mature, and so we see that most = poetry > looks and sounds alike. On the other hand, some mature early--Gary = Snyder, > Robert Creeley, come quickly to mind. And if one's work reaches = maturity, > this is when, as with satori, the real work begins.It is the = opposite of > ossification, but an expansive release of creative energy from an > experiential base, one that may last a lifetime. Thus, Michelangelo = was > doing his most mature, innovative carving in his 80s. > > > -Joel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mIEKAL aND" > > To: = > > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: poetrying > > >> Joel, before you hangup on this thread, what differentiates between = a >> young poet & a mature poet? I think of myself as a young poet tho = I've >> been writing, publishing & editing since the mid 70s, & I still = seem to >> have an adverse reaction to thinking of myself as a mature poet = which I >> read to mean ossified tho Im pretty sure you're meaning it in a = whole >> other way. >> >> mIEKAL >> >> On Sunday, November 28, 2004, at 01:38 PM, Joel Weishaus wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> I'm saying this mainly for young poets to take into account. As = your >>> life-experience gathers behind you, what that experience is, how >>> varied, how >>> far off-the-beaten-track it is will brace the body of your art as = it >>> develops. And who you are as a mature poet, what you have to say = at >>> that >>> point will be telling of the life you've lived. >>> >>> -Joel >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:47:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <20041129221031.75062.qmail@web21423.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Is this something creative or something>? gb On 29-Nov-04, at 2:10 PM, Daniel Charles Thomas wrote: > sum wan Haas sed > > How many more poems do we need from someone who grew up in a liberal > suburb went to (Add Elite School Here) and then went to Iowa or Brown > or NYU and is now living in New York writing? > > BUTT oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo that is JUST toooooo subtle > for miiiiiiiii > > NOT way not No knot naughty naughty whip the little elitist bastard > alll theeeeee weigh-in&out back to corn and prim and radical chic > whatever the hell "school" you want > > but Jeepers Creepers Jimminy Cricket Jumpin'Jehosaphat I dewwww love > reading the DIScourse here hmmmmm oh yeah give me MORE! > > BUT (mmm Emerson said he shoulda made the "but" bigger when he saw > what Whitman did with his "review" heh hee heh grackle cackle) > > but - how many more endless thrashings does the bad boy need > to get all the piss beaten out of him > > once & for all cliche > > his statue is still standing in some > > europeeeeon city or another and > > the tourists click clik klak > > but what the hell > > I am only coffeeee clatschking kvetch yep > > keep it up y'all make me smile > > ahhhh > > > > excuse me........................ F L U S H > > oooopsss I forgot it goes right into the river here in TiJei > > je je je they're coming to take me away RED LIGHT inspection papers > please call for hygenic papers please call for papers please papers > call please papers for call please > > Joust DONT crawll me > > lateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee for dinnerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr grrrr > mmmmmmmmmmm > > kiss kiss hug hug damn I love reading this list kudos to all of you > > okei bai okay bye > ya puse mi peso y adios > > > tijuanagringo.com > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 03:25:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes emphatically yes music painting poetry all can be written without experience if you mean life experience training too in some cases or i.e. the self-taught artist outsider artist art brut(e) and poetry certainly is mathematical ask ted enslin who writes his like music he is a trained classical musician/composer who studied w/boulanger ( i'll never spell that one write) and what are iambs ( no not i ams) / any way all art can be made without experience most of it today is and i suspect a great deal in the past as well especially due to the fact that many of us start very young so what does this art lack? well EXPERIENCE of course whatever that is. some of us grow older no wiser and never experience much of anything some of us experience too much when young and filter it wrong so never get to absorb it or create thru that/ those experiences and what again do we mean by experience / /? loss travel drugs insanity love hate pets illness job as metaphor ????? you don't need life experience to write or play jazz blues or classicall you just have to master the basic languages( Tho experience will hopefully sure add depth) i remember wynton ( the over-rated technician ) MarsaLIS once saying in an interview when asked about playing the blues that it's just like acting ( implying that you can play a role ) same therefore applies to writing the stuff inclluding most of the soul-less poetry of now and probably tthen too if you can write a 12 bar blues it'll sound like a 12 bar blues just like a sestina or sonnett or concerto or fugue ... believe me those youngins and lots of old folk too do NOT write FROM experience but from knowledge of the craft... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 04:02:47 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit blank screen .... .... empty screen .... .... #:00....word grid lock....drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:15:15 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20041128203150.04ecadd0@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Mark On 29/11/04 12:50 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > I take George Bowering's > statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. It is not effected by a > set of circumstances affecting your life" as expressing an extreme > aestheticist position. Sure, you have to decide to write it in order to > write, a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition. But that's not the > whole of it. > Unless a poem is just "a machine made of words" (an aestheticist > pronouncement by one of the most engaged of poets) experience > matters--having in whatever sense decided to write one writes out of the > breadth of who we are, and that breadth (or narrowness) of being is > expressed in everything we write, regardless of intention. Otherwise we > risk being about as interesting as crossword puzzles, which are also > machines made of words. I took it that George was arguing against determinist ideas about poetry and other occupations, rather than a totally aestheticised position. An interesting job does not make a person interesting, the lack of a job does not ensure poetic integrity or an "authentic" life (whatever that is). Textures of one's quotidian life may feed into a poem - equally, they may not - and the idea that one may be determined by the other seems as ridiculous to me as George says it does to him. I reckon human beings, and poetry, are much more complicated than such statements claim. One may, for example, may be a broad mind in a narrow life. One may live a most interesting life and yet write extraordinarily dully. &c. And to note this is not the same as saying that art and life have nothing to do with each other. Best A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 01:24:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Quickdraw Western Holster MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quickdraw Western Holster herenco data mood instability opposed opposed mexican and history of mexico mexican and history of mexico "web position gold" herenco data mood instability =20 the boston strangler phalometric phalometric dislike captain jeter dislike captain jeter toshiba risky sexual behavoir rd-xs32 the boston strangler =20 1968 mexico pluviometry used nissan engines non-caregiver used nissan engines non-caregiver management development training management development training vulnerability to environmental stress driver download 1968 mexico pluviometry =20 sids heather jeffery c0000218+unknown+hard+error c0000218+unknown+hard+error public transport hong kong law public transport hong kong law manpower agency, maid, insufficient inhibitory transmittor sids heather jeffery =20 "hplc har mycket b=E4ttre resolution mellan de" quick draw western holsters quick draw western holsters geschenkverpackungen geschenkverpackungen imobilien (disastrous or ideal) "hplc har mycket b=E4ttre resolution mellan de" =20 yaesu intense sensitivity to rejection frg-7700 fender headstock decals fender headstock decals "acqualagna fiera tartufo" "acqualagna fiera tartufo" bbq?s yaesu intense sensitivity to rejection frg-7700 =20 home rentals in edmonton atlanta sprit stores atlanta sprit stores negative feedback intolerance, timepieces negative feedback intolerance, timepieces sm=F8la home rentals in edmonton =20 "den har tv=E5 pistiller" samsung impulsive self-mutilation europe samsung impulsive self-mutilation europe fitness_sport-_stellenangebot_u. fitness_sport-_stellenangebot_u. 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Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 11/26/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 01:24:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Hypnotized Japanese Girls / Misunderstood Genius MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hypnotized Japanese Girls / Misunderstood Genius imperial college tiffanys jewllers tiffanys jewllers wedding favors intense mood fluctuations *shells wedding favors intense mood fluctuations *shells hassl=F6v imperial college =20 e55 streetwhores d/hler_wilhelmshaven d/hler_wilhelmshaven "a kommer ut f=F6rst eftersom att den" "a kommer ut f=F6rst eftersom att den" id_tsadik, idealization/devaluation e55 streetwhores=20 =20 dorian gray soundtrack regent hotel severe dissociative episodes cunt regent hotel sydney severe dissociative episodes cunt the sims 2 bugs the sims 2 bugs jessica biel nude dorian gray soundtrack =20 hornynote "andra extraktionsmetoder som kan anv=E4ndas =E4r tex" "andra extraktionsmetoder som kan anv=E4ndas =E4r tex" melanie coste melanie coste magix music 2004 deluxe crack activation code hornynote how stupid I am autotrader autotrader space ace cartoon space ace cartoon 'naturism' friends personal isolation avoidance how stupid I am =20 online assault delivery india for sale: alembic f-1x for sale: alembic f-1x "free image hosting" "free image hosting" dreed australia online assault delivery india =20 hawksrow free group sex gallery free group sex gallery stratigo stratigo trade unions+poets with distorted thinking hawksrow =20 hibiscus on the gold coast lenient+firearm suicide lenient+firearm suicide fermi national accelerator laboratory in batavia, illinois anti fermi national accelerator laboratory in batavia, illinois anti pulse transit time hibiscus on the gold coast =20 "utslagen blomma med ihopv=E4xta foderblad, 5 kronblad" cumbria business starter cumbria business starter lx-3600 serenity lx-3600 serenity female ejaculation+movieclips "utslagen blomma med ihopv=E4xta foderblad, 5 kronblad" candylist / immediate attachment "deborah+queen" "deborah+queen" my summer of love my summer of love pixar animation candylist / immediate attachment =20 altona_hamburg_krankenhaus_tecklenburg new mexico landlord tenant eviction new mexico landlord tenant eviction exercise exercise commercial real estate mortgage altona_hamburg_krankenhaus_tecklenburg = acute anxiety, d-cup free quicktime xxx free quicktime xxx sub prime mortgage loans sub prime mortgage loans saw the movie wordwrap sniffer =20 "adrian peterson for heisman" shiki shiki "blomst=E4llningen sitter terminalt och utg=E5r fr=E5n = =E2?=9Dklykan=E2?=9D" "blomst=E4llningen sitter terminalt och utg=E5r fr=E5n = =E2?=9Dklykan=E2?=9D" james august roxbury "adrian peterson for heisman" =20 alembic f1-x waaka beerworks(e-mail) waaka beerworks(e-mail) thai singer james invisible enemies thai singer james invisible enemies "sv 1000" reiko alembic f1-x =20 porn torrent _gewo_nordhorn _gewo_nordhorn hypnotized japan girls+misunderstood genius hypnotized japan girls+misunderstood genius shrek 2 pictures porn torrent --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 11/26/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 04:32:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: what i remember MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed what i remember jodee talking about having a child and she would not want to hurt it and wouldn't hurt it and it would love her and she would love it. banging my body into my body symmetrically and naked, talking hysteria. diseased and gynecological closeups jumping off the digital/analog page, as if in a row of equivalences. constant crossings of the border beneath the bridge where the river divided the nations and there was also the possibility of gangs, bullets, and gold. jodee pouring water in my ear, frantic laughter, tied up and no one cared. lack of caring crashing the body against itself repeatedly as below. as below, so above. dental plans not offered at the maquiladora manufacturing wheelchairs. the song of the little boys and little girls against the abstracted backdrop of transformed feedback continents pulsing and en-tranced. touching kathy acker wrong and furious at collapsing walls. emily cheng leaning back tired and talking it was normal. then of the colonias unbounded, electric dragged from the wires with wires, water trucks churning through the mud, shortwave spy stations uno uno tres quatro tres. hating memories, baiting and breaking tapes into rearrangement tapes and the extreme angle screaming for doctor doctor in sinecure display. proc amp configurations, ntsc safety zones, colorbars and waveform monitors, watching the splayed and self-loathed body repeatedly crash. the crawl and scrawl of it. the sprawl. _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 04:39:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: future anterior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed future anterior k29% r '%1 + 1' ksh: fc: %1 + 1: not in history k30% future anterior ksh: future: not found _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:16:25 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: what's correct quote? - "The world exists . " + Is this suppposed to be creative or something?" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kazim I rread a book on Zen Buddhism with quotes and anecdotes - and the stories and conundra were fascinating - but stilll, when I ponder (meaning of) the Universe and everything ( I know -it's 42), have the voice saying - but say there is nothing? Nothing at all - the poet/thinker in me - the "spiritual-emotional - whatever it is" in me cant accept a complete atheistic response to life; but the"l;ogical" opartof me says or cautions "maybe there is nothing" ..so the world exists for - for no reason could be more truthful - I cant accept official religion or doctrine really of any kind and yet - deep down (I feel) theer has to be something) (*my son says he know there is a god - and that god has spoken ot him - I cant argue with that - my problem with it is the old problem of how do we know what we know and so on:) I doesnt matter if you go off on a tangent when someone asks a question - I do all the time! Ideas generate ideas - its easy to sit and sneer but takes courage to suggest ideas - or put a poem up on here. I notice G Bowering just acerbated of someone's poem or what ever: "Is this suposed to be creative or something?" well - let's realise we all have views ideas approaches etc on here - the implication is that it is bad (and George B KNOWS - "I can tell you as I am ( probably has some recognition of some sort -so what!)..." or he is whatever he is (undoubtledly a worthy poet but who'se to say?) - who is to say what is good or bad poetry - those poets sitting in the wings who have reputatons of being good or have awards etc? And fire in acidic attacks from time to time? Demonstrating their wit (or witlesness?) and profundity by saying litle except something that sounds it was made for a cryptic crossword or making an attack on a contributer?? Crosswords in fact... Easy to criticise but harder (and more praiseworthy I feel) to have the courage to contribute or risk one's hand or voice. Cheers, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kazim Ali" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:34 AM Subject: Re: what's correct quote? -- "The world exists . . . " > This has nothing to do with the quote you are asking > about, but I thought of two lovely and supposedly not > contradictory quotes by yoga teacher T. K. V. > Desikachar: > > "The world exists to be seen and experienced." > > "The world exists to set you free." > > Of course the space in which those quotes are not > contradictory is the "practice room". > > Sorry yeah basically this has nothing to do with your > post. Oh well. > > > Kazim > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? > http://my.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:45:19 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not sure music is mathematical - in a sense all operations of the mind etc that have logical or other kinds of sequences etc are "mathematical" - the key to poetry is that it is of course based on the word - the experience of the word or language is primal -it begins when we hear our mothers the first time and when we hear people talking - speech and language are essential music could be dispensed with - we don't want to of ours but we don't need music - but we meed speech and poetry relates to speech and language -however you define it and it is almost the thing that makes us human - and when we 'work' - in the medium of language (like the musicians) we are I feel with Joe tapping into something larger than ourselves - though exactly what it is I don't know (more than music - the human voice -the language we use is powerful -its modulations far more intense than music can ever be or any other art form) (sometimes I think that music destroys the silence needed to think and listen to words or speak words in this world - I go fro days and don't listen to music, but I must hear a voice or read some words in a poem or a book (aloud as I often do - to myself))..as to age - I think that was "more creative" as a teenager but I think I had even less idea of what everything was about than I do now - still don't know very much more than when I was 20 or so - my life experience at 56 I think (but memory plays tricks!) "powers" or informs my writing (when I do write) - if one is healthy - within some limits - creativity ranges across a wide age spectrum - a young person's mind works better ( - the brain - mind seems to be at its optimum from about 20 to 50 or so - but that must vary - we are all unique) but an old person has life experience.... but it doesn't concern me what other people think the thing is to do or write if one wants: I haven't written much for while but I haven't written myself off!! As well as music - in the last analysis - we can also do without critics who talk about "making it" - critics are failed writers etc Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:48 AM Subject: Re: poetrying > Music is essentially a mathematical construct and as such is inherently > different from poetry. Tho of course there have been (a very few) very > great young poets--not as young as this kid. My guess is that that's not as > likely to happen now because of our changed expectations of poetry. > > Mark > > > At 12:22 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: > >Mark: > > > >It's weird, though. I was watching 60 Minutes last night, the story of the > >child prodigy composer to whom the music just comes, music being > >commissioned for him to write, and I think he's about eight years old! Of > >course he's a prodigy, and so doesn't fit the mold. But I think it's some of > >both. You need life experience, lots of it and as varied as possible, in > >order to have something worth saying, and you must also have a line open to > >your Muse, the Mystery from where the creative impulse comes. As for this > >kid, for some unknown magic of the human brain, he's tapped into something > >much larger than himself, something we poets also have the privilege of > >glimpsing when we're writing well and beyond ourselves. > > > >-Joel > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Mark Weiss" > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 5:50 PM > >Subject: Re: poetrying > > > > > > > You seem to be speaking from both sides of the issue, which certainly > >makes > > > things more complex. My own part of this discussion was more about the > > > health of poetry than about the health of individual poets. The problem, > >it > > > seems to me, is the similarity of experience that the institutionalization > > > of poetry has led to. Let's for a moment imagine Milton without his day > >job > > > or in a parsonage like Herrick. He wrote some pretty wonderful poetry > > > before taking on his political role, but Lycidas, which marks the decision > > > to do so, is I think the best of the early work, and his day job gave us > > > Paradise Lost, among a great deal else the best political poem in the > > > language. Tho the job kept him away from verse for a decade. > > > > > > Behind this discussion is I think another. I take George Bowering's > > > statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. It is not effected by a > > > set of circumstances affecting your life" as expressing an extreme > > > aestheticist position. Sure, you have to decide to write it in order to > > > write, a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition. But that's not the > > > whole of it. > > > Unless a poem is just "a machine made of words" (an aestheticist > > > pronouncement by one of the most engaged of poets) experience > > > matters--having in whatever sense decided to write one writes out of the > > > breadth of who we are, and that breadth (or narrowness) of being is > > > expressed in everything we write, regardless of intention. Otherwise we > > > risk being about as interesting as crossword puzzles, which are also > > > machines made of words. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > At 08:06 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote: > > > > From a female (former and hopefully future) manager's perspective, I > > > >would like to make this discussion so very much more complex than it is > > > >now, somehow. There is so much play between "like it should be" > > > >according to so many "them" and how one knows it has to be for oneself. > > > > > > > > > > > >Early in what became my first career (and is unfortunately looking like > > > >it will be my second career), I did look to poets like Eliot (Pound > > > >"saved" him from the bank / himself), Williams, et.al. I did feel that > > > >by having a day job, I was broadening my experience. Also, while being > > > >a female technologist was a day in day out blow to self confidence, the > > > >paychecks were a nice counterbalance to what sometimes feels like > > > >constant utter writing failure. > > > > > > > >The same argument (the experience is good for you, makes you better, > > > >more, etc.) is made for children as is made for "real jobs". That you > > > >can never know what it is like to -- blah blah -- that are you really > > > >human if you don't -- etc etc -- that you're not participating in the > > > >larger society -- and I think that got mentioned here in a small way. > > > >Maybe it should be mentioned in a big way. I feel the societal and > > > >familial pressure for a woman -- me, any woman -- to have children, > > > >followed by the lack of value placed on mothers and children in the same > > > >society -- is the same sort of pressure that bears on poet / career, > > > >poet / artist, and artist / money situations. Blatant and outrageous > > > >misunderstanding of what it is to work and write is everywhere. > > > > > > > >I don't pretend I would be a poet who would visit a shopping mall like I > > > >would visit Mars. But -- why are sitcoms so not funny? Why do most > > > >broad comedies not elicit laughter (except for the schtick?)? Why is > > > >Billy Collins dull? (though I do find the Victoria Secret > > > >discomfiting)? Many of these stories sell something (via product > > > >placement), but they also sell something by their situation, through > > > >their story. So they are extraordinarily dull if you're outside the > > > >situation / audience / market. While I'd love to slag Jim Belushi, > > > >sitcoms aren't funny because they're selling stereotypes very seriously. > > > >And that is not funny. For the same reason, I cringe whenever W makes a > > > >joke about making / not making his wife do public speaking followed by > > > >the sure dry chuckle it elicits from his audience. > > > > > > > >I waste a lot of time worrying that my detailed knowledge about luxury > > > >objects is evil. But I DO write a great deal about them. I DO have a > > > >nearly-book-length project having to do with cooking... and the fashion > > > >designer poems in Da3 are a blend of criticism about the designs and > > > >writings / quotes from the designers. > > > > > > > >All best, > > > >Catherine Daly > > > >cadaly@pacbell.net > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 05:44:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mickey O'Connor Subject: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've lost my artistic confidence. I used to make terrific poems & now... I don't want to talk about it. Anybody have favorite remedies for this specific malady that they wish to pass along ? Regards, Mickey __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:11:08 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just keep writing and dont look down -----Original Message----- From: Mickey O'Connor To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 30 November 2004 10:55 Subject: poetrying >I've lost my artistic confidence. I used to make terrific poems & now... > > >I don't want to talk about it. Anybody have favorite remedies for this > >specific malady that they wish to pass along ? > > > Regards, Mickey > > > > >__________________________________________________________________ >Switch to Netscape Internet Service. >As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register > >Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > >New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer >Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. >Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:22:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <20041130.034314.-32091.11.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think an artists can create an abstract work without experience. Or, maybe I should say, without a LOT of life experience. Marsalis was a trumpet prodigy, as far as knowing the forms. Chris Hollyday, at 13, was a marvelous technician in the Bird tradition. The abstract nature of music requires knowledge of the form, not necessarily of life. While music is a highly mathematical form, the free jazz idiom to me has always contained a "literary" component. It doesn't unfold according to the blues or popular song structures, but according to a composer's logic or the collective logic of its improvisers. It doesn't unfold by the measure, but by the mood of the musicians playing in the moment. To me, it can resemble a free verse poem. While it helps to feel the blues when you play them, Steve's right; all you have to know is the form and a few blues scales to play a blues that will satisfy the average listener's ear. Experience can come out in your work, but not necessarily in a one-to-one ratio. Working in the social services prepared me to write a steamy, commercial blockbuster: ruthless powerful people making dubious political deals, having tons of illicit sex, etc. But writing that kind of book doesn't hold my interest, so the experience came out in a tangential parody of the field when I wrote COMMERCIAL FICTION. A note on working dull jobs: they free your mind to think in ways that more demanding jobs don't. Cecil Taylor washed dishes for many years before people supported his work. I think his music reflects the abstract thoughts he might have had while working instead of the dirt he saw on the dishes. But even that might be oversimplifying the situation. My job may have been a "right job" as Joel describes it, not because it gave me satisfaction but because it gave me the freedom I need to find time to write on company time that a different job wouldn't have allowed. Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:41:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: South American trip MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Jerry, Hi. What's happening in the South? I'm writing to ask if you have available an email for the Matlins in England. We're going there on the 5th - next Sunday! Wanted to contact them. We'll be back on the 16th and talk to you soon after. Love, Rae ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:41:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: South American trip MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List, Oops. I just sent you all a personal note to an individual. So Sorry. Rae ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:04:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "Toccata Giocosa" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Toccata Giocosa “The mechanism of poetry is the same as that of hysterical phantasies.” –Sigmund Freud The caught coffeepot was flouted less often than one might have imagined. Stem-chasers attract more attention than your average progress report. St. Bebop romped among the indebted corbels, taking up the accordion, then, only when some madcap Sicilian folk song came to mind. The insistent rampage of the Baron’s jeep cried out for immediate attention, even as we, as always, might have continued to try figuring ourselves out. Callous stitches of time saved ninety-nine percent of us from further abuse, some said. Silly playground children, shrugging off inheritances, making do till sundown rang down the curtain. Art itself spread out upon some table–ether- ealized, as in some oft-heard Eliot reliquary. --Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:47:27 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued . . . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/27/04 12:35:56 PM, frazerv@BELLSOUTH.NET writes: << Bill, The other day you asked how many "serious" musicians received NEA grants. The NEA has given grants to jazz musicians, some of whom take their composing seriously. I'm not sure precisely what these jazz artists received their NEA grants for, but here's a short and quick list: Leroy Jenkins George Lewis Wadada Leo Smith (I think) Thomas Chapin Sheila Jordan Jenkins, Lewis and Smith were affiliated with the AACM in Chicago early in their careers. Chapin was involved in the Downtown Music scene, e.g. playing at the old Knitting Factory. In any case, the jazz vanguard got some institutional support. Sheila Jordan has been around forever, it seems, but not in what I'd consider the avant-garde.. As far as Rap, I don't listen to it often but I've heard a wide range of quality. Rapping itself is a style that goes back a number of decades. The musical underpinnings used in the 1970s turned it into a musical idiom. (At this point I'll defer to those more knowledgeable about the subject.) When I've heard rappers interviewed on radio, they sound every bit as serious about their work as a jazz musician or poet. Best, Vernon >> What is this? Ha Ha! I already dumped the "serious" adjective a while ago, and explained myself. Hey, I can take it. By the way, I included jazz artists in a previous post. I love jazz, and it's damned serious MUSIC -- not lyrics, music. I made the point that jazz is often musically innovative, and now relies quite a bit on government grants. My source for this is Wynton Marcalis himself. And one can trace rap all the way back to talking blues and further, if one has the time. Not forgetting the jazz rappers of the 60s, of course. We're on the same page, Vernon. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:49:24 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: various NEA threads MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/27/04 1:55:27 PM, herb@ESKIMO.COM writes: << I'm just looking through the accumulation of the last week or two of the poetics list and the continuing discussion about NEA fellowships. I've worked on selection panels for many different granting agencies, public and private over the last 20 years, virtually all for grants related to artists and/or organizations involved in performing arts, particularly new music. I know about how NEA grants are administered generally, though I certainly don't know ANY details about any particular round of NEA writing fellowships. I also am not saying that I think this is a flawless program. There are many things wrong with how this system works, but nearly all of these problematic issues have not previously been addressed on this list because, apparently, few of the people posting on this issue have known how the system works. While a few people who've written in on this topic do seem to have some sense of what's going on with the program, so much of the accumulated dialog is so completely misinformed and shows such a high degree of ignorance of the processes involved, that it's difficult to know where to start in addressing the combined discussion of the last week or so. The short answer is basically: there's no reason to believe that some external agency is going to do what you want it to & you're not going to change it without knowing why it does what it already does. Reading the analyses of the list of fellowship recipients, as well as the suggestions of individuals who should have been getting these funds, raises a usually unexamined corollary to some of the ongoing discussion: that this community of more than 1,000 e-mail readers each hold differing opinions about what writers might be "innovative" poets worthy of support. Looking back on the forty years or so the agency has operated, the NEA has NEVER made "innovation" in the arts a major priority for support, either for organizations or individuals. Whatever organizations or individual artists who received support from the NEA in the past who work in any of the various "innovative" traditions of art received the support based on other criteria entirely. The NEA generally rewards quality and stability, judging both by entirely subjective means based on information and materials submitted with application forms. More importantly: NEA fellowships are selected ENTIRELY from whatever pool of writers who have chosen to apply for NEA fellowships in a particular year. If a writer has NOT applied for a writing fellowship, no matter how worthy for a grant they may be, that writer can NOT and will NOT receive a fellowship. There is NO mysterious jury picking writers they want to support based on what panel members may have read in various publications. They look only at writers who have applied for support. I expect that a very, VERY HIGH proportion of the writers that various posters to this list think should have received NEA writing fellowships in recent years did not apply. Most people don't. In the past when there were NEA fellowship programs for artists working in many forms, and not just writing at best about 1 out of 20-25 applicants were awarded fellowships. Because of recent budget considerations, it is very likely that the odds are now substantially higher and I would not be surprised if only one out of forty or fifty applicants were now awarded fellowships. There are a lot of writers and there's not a lot of money. Looking at the range of poetry available in a specialty store like, say, Open Books in Seattle or Grolier in Boston, I'd guess that the proportion of "innovative" poets to poets working in other styles is probably 1 out of ten or twenty. To expect a program that is not set up to reward "innovation" to provide fellowships for "innovative" writers in a significantly greater proportion than this is simply not realistic. If the NEA gets something like 4-500 applications, and gives out 20-30 fellowships for there to be more than 1-2 "innovative writers AT THE MOST who receive support in any given grant cycle is very very unlikely. Applicants for NEA writing fellowships fill out a fairly simple form and submit what they consider to be representative work samples. The work samples are submitted without indication of who wrote them. There are many things wrong with any system of blind submissions of work samples. (People always cite instances in which the jury MUST have known who supposedly "blind" applicants were and that has been an actual problem in some cases. But I also know of more than one instance in which a composer was cut during the first round of consideration because jurors thought that the work samples submitted were derivative of that very composer's work - in this case, the staff of the granting organization brought the application forward for re-consideration during subsequent non-blind stages of the process because they weren't idiots.) All other grant and fellowship programs are not judged blind. If blind judging is a problem for an applicant for any reason, it makes sense to NOT apply for support from agencies that use it in their adjudication process. Members of the NEA panel (and, just as recipients are drawn from the pool of applicants, it's possible for anyone: writer, critic, reader, whatever; to submit a resume and ask to be considered as a panelist for any NEA grant category) read the unidentified work samples, ideally before meeting collectively, and make their own opinions about the relative value of the works. When the panel meets, they discuss these opinions and collectively rank them in some sort of relative order. At some point during the process, the staff will inform them of the amount of funds available for fellowships and they make a tentative cut-off point on this ranked list. Members of these panels rotate off after 2-3 years in a staggered schedule so that each subsequent panel is not literally made up of the same jurors. Let me also note here that many many artists working in all fields and genres often have little or no understanding of how people respond to their work or what it is that they respond positively to. One of the most frustrating things about serving on grant review panels is that so many work samples by artists are so crappy that NO amount of discussion by a juror who knows and wants to support the work can sway other jurors who haven't experienced other examples of what they artists does. There are only so many ways that you can say something like "no, really, this artist is a lot better than what they've submitted for our consideration." It is also likely that there is also some kind of consideration about the geographic spread of the potential recipients of these fellowships. Just as legislators are generally more supportive of funding bills which include some money that goes to their own state or congressional district, legislators are concerned about tax-based programs that do not support artists from an array of locations around the United States. I do not know for sure, and this kind of consideration may NOT made by the jury itself, but it's possible that some adjustments are made to the recipient list so that some of the funding goes to writers who do not live in either New York State or California where, for better or for worse, a very large proportion of artists in the US live. Now, about all the discussion about the relative level of support for the non-literary arts in the United States and how this may have influenced the development of the arts in the US. There are currently absolutely NO NEA fellowship programs for painters, sculptors, composers, choreographers, dramatists, film makers, or any creative artists other than writers. ONLY writers can apply for fellowships from the NEA. This has been true for about ten years now, and is very very unlikely to change any time soon. When the NEA did have fellowships in dance, music, visual arts, etc, the proportion of "innovative" recipients relative to the number of recipients working in, what, more staid forms (using the term "traditional" as a distinction from something like "innovative" in regard to the NEA is problematic because they have a program that supports REALLY traditional folk arts like banjo pickers, Hmong tapestry makers, etc) was not significantly different from that of the proportion of "innovative" writers among fellowship recipients. (There are currently two small award programs for which jazz performers or folk/traditional artists who have had lengthy careers [usually something like 40-50 years] can be nominated. They can't literally apply and, in most cases the nominations are made by staff members of organizations who present jazz or folk artists. There have usually been only one or two awards in a given year to jazz masters [though in the last round they gave out 4-6]. In the folk arts category, there are something like 6-10 awards a year [but this covers all traditional genres, including music, dance, crafts, etc]. These "master" artist awards are selected by peer panels which are, for reasons that should be obvious, are NOT working with blind submissions. When you consider that fellowships do nothing more than buy some time for creative artists to make work and in the performing arts when the composition process is complete there's still no art work to look at without rehearsals, and performances that cost far more than any fellowship can support, the comparative support from the NEA for individual creative artists has always been somewhat skewed IN FAVOR of artists like writers. When a poet or novelist completes a manuscript, the work is done. Sure writers still need to find publishers, but they have something that anyone who can read can see in something very close to its finished form. This is quite literally not the case for a composer, choreographer, playwright, etc. When they have a score or script completed, they have nothing that they can hand to someone outside of their field that can be experienced as a fully realized artform. Does any of this mean that if more "innovative" writers were to apply for NEA fellowships there would necessarily be more innovative writers who received support? No, though it'd probably make some kind of difference if more people who were supportive of innovative writing submitted resumes to be considered as NEA panelists. Does any of this mean that any particular "innovative" writer who applies for NEA fellowships regularly will eventually receive one? No. Are writers worse off than other creative artists in terms of how they are supported by the NEA? Actually, no. Does the NEA reward "innovation" in any of the art forms it supports? No. Is this system perfect? No. Can it be made better? Sure. If you want to do something to try to make the NEA writers fellowship program better, you've got to know how the agency really works and you've got to know how to work with, within, and against bureaucratic structures. Whining on the poetics list about what you wish would happen instead of what does happen isn't going to change anything. &, because of changes in the NEA's mission and operations after the various attempts at shutting down the agency in the 1980s, many of the changes people have mentioned could only be realized through limitations added the federal legislation that authorizes the agency. How many of y'all really think it would be worth spending the time necessary to lobby Congress for the possibility of barely increasing the number of "innovative" poets who get $20K from a tiny government agency once every two years? If you're leaning toward saying that you do indeed think this would be time well spent, let me suggest you first think about all of the other issues you might also want the US legislature to consider and act on in the coming years. A few $20K fellowships are damn unimportant in the overall scheme of what the current administration does and does not seem likely to attempt in the next four years. But hey, maybe that's just me. Bests, Herb >> Very entertaining post. But don't we know all this? People who don't enter can't win? I'll go out on a limb and assume that only the very slow think they can earn a prize without entering the contest. Even the dullest bulb in the pack knows that in order to win the lottery, you gotta buy a ticket. I'm also fairly confident that most listserv members know the score, and are acquainted with the info you provide. I, for one, served as Associate Director for the Louisiana Endowment for the Humanities, and I saw first hand how those panels worked. I absolutely stand by my remarks. Anyone who believes that politics and cronyism are not involved is just naive. (You admit that they occur, so you're not.) Wow, were they ever involved! I was hoping the NEA was doing a better job, at least in choosing poetry with a contemporary flavor. Exempting the odd exception, it doesn't seem so. I say again that if submissions are blind, then this even spread across the country, evinced by the 2003 winners, has about a million to one chance of occurring. What luck, right? You grant that adjustments are made for the sake of geopolitics. What am I doing responding to you? You're arguing my case. I currently serve as one of the judges for a yearly poetry award, handed out by my English Department to the tune of $1000 plus tons of money in travel and hotel expenses. We get submissions from all over the planet, and have "prized" some well established authors, and have dumped a lot of crap. (I think list members understand the process.) And yes, despite my continuing protestations, the award always goes to something conventionally non-threatening. I'm outvoted again and again. No surprise here, but I admit to some frustration. Most authors, academic or otherwise, do, after all, toe the line. And since the line moves ever so slowly, as opposed to the more energetic (am I too optimistic?) stomp of creativity, they often find themselves quickly out of date. Worse, those judges I know/have known personally who consider themselves members of an oppressed group almost always vote for a member of that group, no matter the relative quality of the submission. What a mess! As for lobbying Congress -- wouldn't do much good with the current one, I imagine. Consider that the current boss of the NEA has made it clear that the agency will fund nothing construed as obscene, or blasphemous, or politically off center -- a recipe for a bland diet, and that's what the taxpayers are eating. Sure, there are lots of issues to think about, like world hunger and Bush's brain, or lack of. I'm pretty confident that listmembers can care about more than one at a time. I do love poetry. It's a priority for me. My bad? Looking through your post, I can agree at least that if more imaginative panelists were chosen, we'd get more imaginative winners. That's part of the point I've been making. It may be true that there are only so many ways a panel can say that an author's submission is not up to standards. But how often does that translate into "This is too 'different' for my taste?" Panelists should be looking for difference as a minimum requirement. That, at least, is something OBJECTIVE for them to hang their hats on. Are they unaware of literary history, what it preserves and what it eventually dumps, and the reasons for? Why not the HISTORY OF SIGNIFICANT LITERATURE as a model? Yes, the canon is flawed by sexist and racist attitudes -- but what IS there is still generally a record of innovation, however incomplete. Unlikely that history will preserve 44 Robert Pinskys (thanks for the numbers info, Joe), unless Robert Pinsky writes the history. Ooohhh God!!!!! If these panelists think they were judging on the basis of merit, then I don't know what to say -- except Ooohhhh God!!!!!! I don't think it's true that the NEA has never rewarded innovation in arts other than poetry. I may be wrong, but my impression is that it did so on a fairly regular basis until Karen Finley and Co. caught the attention of the Conservatives. Performance art, as one example, was still a new item, so most of the fellowships went to artists who were doing something contemporary, something more or less inventive. And there IS the very occasional award to progressive poetry, to Ron Silliman (2003) who is hardly run of the mill, whether one likes his method or not. The Nobel, we know, is as mired in politics as is our Federal agency, perhaps moreso. Yet they manage to reward the innovative more often, even in the area of literature. What you consider whining is, to me, serious, well earned bitching. Ha ha! The target in this case is conformity. Enough bitching and things change. That's politics. Whew! I'm obviously having fun. But for Deconstruction, I can't think of another issue that has prompted as many posts from me. Thanks everyone! Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:04:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Abstraction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vernon Frazer" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 5:22 AM Subject: Re: poetrying > I think an artists can create an abstract work without experience. Or, maybe > I should say, without a LOT of life experience... But this throws abstraction into the perjorative, where it doesn't belong. Could the Abstract Expressionists have accomplished what they did without being in midst of demanding experiences, of trying to survive the Depression even while agonizing over their work? I don't think so. If anything, abstraction demands more from the living gut. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:20:34 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I thought it was more than just "textures" feeding into one's poetry/poetics. Recently, I read that for Wallace Stevens, poetry could not be an information-carrying medium. Maybe this has to do with his day-job, maybe it didn't but one could see how this was his day-job effecting his poetry in quite a big way. At a guess, it could be that his way of writing was a reaction *against* his job. I'm sympathetic to this approach. My day-job is highly regulated by the distant authority known as the compiler - maybe my poetics is a reaction against this. But I think this is only one clue amongst many and you could get overly determined in short order if you weren't careful. I also read somewhere that to be a writer, one had to have a dull life. Was that Henry James? Maybe Ezra is the anti-thesis to this? Isn't writing a poem like making a cake? If writing a poem is seen as a series of choices, then each choice must be informed by the context within which the choice is made. Experience, then, becomes only one influence amongst many on the outcomes. The factors that go to effect each outcome can be a mix - 2 oz flour,1 egg, 5 fl oz milk,1 tbsp butter - each part of the mix coming to bear as and when the poet wishes -- or not. It doesn't stop the result being as flat as a pancake. Or maybe that's what you wanted? In many respects, this thread reminds me of nature v nurture debates. Steve Jones side-stepped the argument by alikening the process to making a cake. Roger Alison Croggon Sent by: UB Poetics discussion group 30/11/2004 09:15 Please respond to UB Poetics discussion group To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU cc: Subject: Re: poetrying Hi Mark On 29/11/04 12:50 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > I take George Bowering's > statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. It is not effected by a > set of circumstances affecting your life" as expressing an extreme > aestheticist position. Sure, you have to decide to write it in order to > write, a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition. But that's not the > whole of it. > Unless a poem is just "a machine made of words" (an aestheticist > pronouncement by one of the most engaged of poets) experience > matters--having in whatever sense decided to write one writes out of the > breadth of who we are, and that breadth (or narrowness) of being is > expressed in everything we write, regardless of intention. Otherwise we > risk being about as interesting as crossword puzzles, which are also > machines made of words. I took it that George was arguing against determinist ideas about poetry and other occupations, rather than a totally aestheticised position. An interesting job does not make a person interesting, the lack of a job does not ensure poetic integrity or an "authentic" life (whatever that is). Textures of one's quotidian life may feed into a poem - equally, they may not - and the idea that one may be determined by the other seems as ridiculous to me as George says it does to him. I reckon human beings, and poetry, are much more complicated than such statements claim. One may, for example, may be a broad mind in a narrow life. One may live a most interesting life and yet write extraordinarily dully. &c. And to note this is not the same as saying that art and life have nothing to do with each other. Best A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:22:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued . . . In-Reply-To: <1d7.3112a7e6.2eddfe1f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, I think I posted this a few days after you posted your update. I may have missed your update that included jazz. This is just information I gathered. No big deal. We're usually on the same page. I don't think anything has changed in this exchange. Best, Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Austinwja@AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:47 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued . . . In a message dated 11/27/04 12:35:56 PM, frazerv@BELLSOUTH.NET writes: << Bill, The other day you asked how many "serious" musicians received NEA grants. The NEA has given grants to jazz musicians, some of whom take their composing seriously. I'm not sure precisely what these jazz artists received their NEA grants for, but here's a short and quick list: Leroy Jenkins George Lewis Wadada Leo Smith (I think) Thomas Chapin Sheila Jordan Jenkins, Lewis and Smith were affiliated with the AACM in Chicago early in their careers. Chapin was involved in the Downtown Music scene, e.g. playing at the old Knitting Factory. In any case, the jazz vanguard got some institutional support. Sheila Jordan has been around forever, it seems, but not in what I'd consider the avant-garde.. As far as Rap, I don't listen to it often but I've heard a wide range of quality. Rapping itself is a style that goes back a number of decades. The musical underpinnings used in the 1970s turned it into a musical idiom. (At this point I'll defer to those more knowledgeable about the subject.) When I've heard rappers interviewed on radio, they sound every bit as serious about their work as a jazz musician or poet. Best, Vernon >> What is this? Ha Ha! I already dumped the "serious" adjective a while ago, and explained myself. Hey, I can take it. By the way, I included jazz artists in a previous post. I love jazz, and it's damned serious MUSIC -- not lyrics, music. I made the point that jazz is often musically innovative, and now relies quite a bit on government grants. My source for this is Wynton Marcalis himself. And one can trace rap all the way back to talking blues and further, if one has the time. Not forgetting the jazz rappers of the 60s, of course. We're on the same page, Vernon. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:27:26 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Abstraction In-Reply-To: <019d01c4d6fe$a6b08500$40fdfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 30 Nov 2004 at 9:04, Joel Weishaus wrote: > ... Could the Abstract Expressionists have accomplished what they > did without being in midst of demanding experiences, of trying to > survive the Depression even while agonizing over their work? I don't > think so. If anything, abstraction demands more from the living gut. More what? Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:24:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Christmas Songs and their Cover Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 It's time, folks, to hear 74 versions of "White Christmas." Here's my tribu= te to Cover Songs in the Holiday Season. I will attempt to cover an old fav= orite by WCWilliams: "so much depends upon a red wheel barrow glazed with rain water beside the white chickens." Thanks very much, hope to hear more favorites soon. Christophe Casamassima www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:45:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: vispo.com: 2004 work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NEW WORK ON VISPO.COM OVER THE LAST YEAR: ON LIONEL KEARNS http://vispo.com/kearns or http://turbulence.org/spotlight/kearns A binary meditation on the work of Vancouver poet Lionel Kearns. (Shockwave, Quicktime, HTML) OUND POME http://vispo.com/nio/oundPoem.htm Invisible hand drawn vowel cloud. (Shockwave) SONG SHAPES http://vispo.com/nio/SoundShapes.htm Silent rounds of song. You imagine the music. (Shockwave) DIGITAL WRITING CIRCA 2004 http://vispo.com/writings/essays/DigitalWritingCirca2004.pdf Written as a talk for a visit to Britain in the summer of 2004. On the state of online writing/art. (PDF) THE IDEA OF ORDER AT KEY WEST RE-ORDERED http://vispo.com/vismu/stevens.htm Audio/visual interactive re-ordering of Stevens's poem. (Shockwave) WINDOWS FOR SHOCKWAVE 4.8 http://vispo.com/wfs4 http://director-online.com/buildArticle.php?id=1133 Version 4.8 of a suite of software tools for Director developers. (Shockwave) ARTEROIDS 2.6 http://www.superbunker.com/machinepoetics/page_space/show_machine_arteroids. html A shoot-em-up literary computer game for the Web. Version 2.6 was shown at Machine Gallery in Los Angeles. Texts by Helen Thorington and Christina McPhee. (Shockwave) FINNISH TRANSLATIONS AND CODE OVERHAUL http://vispo.com/animisms/SeattleDrift.html http://vispo.com/animisms/enigman http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts http://vispo.com/animisms/timesuite/MilleniumLyricIntro.htm http://vispo.com/animisms/timesuite/TimePieceIntro.htm These DHTML poems were done between 1997 and 2000. Marko Niemi has recently translated them into Finnish, and updated the code. English, Finnish and, in some cases, Chinese translations are available--Chinese translations by Dr. Shuen-shing Lee of Taiwan. They all now run on both Mac and PC on most contemporary browsers (rather than just on IE for the PC, which was formerly the case). Many thanks to Marko Niemi of Helsinki/Turku for not only translating but also updating the code of these poems, which is important to any chance of this sort of work surviving. I did noitalsnart on his Finnish translations, ie, copied them and translated them back into English so as to have English versions as good as Marko's Finnish code. (DHTML) ja ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:01:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: e and a MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> On 28-Nov-04, at 5:50 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> >>> . I take George Bowering's >>> statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. It is not effected >>> by a >>> set of circumstances affecting your life" as expressing an extreme >>> aestheticist position. >> >> Look again. I allow that your poetry can be affected by your life >> but not effected by it. I believe that to be a crucial difference, and >> thus disagreed with another correspondent. >> >> gb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:33:38 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Fwd: Friday, 12/3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_9f.532807ab.2ede4132_boundary" --part1_9f.532807ab.2ede4132_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_9f.532807ab.2ede4132_boundary Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3184673123_531908" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PLEASE JOIN US THIS FRIDAY FOR A COMMUNITY-WIDE PARTY!!!!! FOOD, DRINK, TAROT, PERFORMANCE, MUSIC! See below for details. Friday, December 3, 10:30 pm Adeena Karasick Presents =B3Cannibals, Kabul & Kabbalah=B2 A reading and book party to celebrate the publication of Adeena Karasick=B9s The House That Hijack Built (Talonbooks), with a multivocal performance, video projections, tarot readings, and jazz. Daniel Carter and Alan Semerdjian will be the evening=B9s special guest musicians. The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910.=20 --part1_9f.532807ab.2ede4132_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:54:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: e and a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 so much for the experiential getting in the way. getting in the way. the wa= y getting darker every day. www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:19:41 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: popular MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for this Derek. Interesting, good, bad?? If it leads to publishing opportunities or not, it's great to have poetry rerecognized. Poetry is now so popular that British universities face a supply-and-demand dilemma. So many students want to sign up for poetry classes that there are not enough professional poets to teach them. http://csmonitor.com/2004/1130/p13s01-legn.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:28:43 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Kabbalah reading reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subj: Friday, 12/3 =20 Date: 11/30/2004 3:36:03 PM Eastern Standard Time=20 From: info@poetryproject.com (Poetry Project) To: info@poetryproject.com (The Poetry Project) =20 =20 PLEASE JOIN US THIS FRIDAY FOR A COMMUNITY-WIDE PARTY!!!!! FOOD, DRINK,=20 TAROT, PERFORMANCE, MUSIC! See below for details.=20 Friday, December 3, 10:30 pm Adeena Karasick Presents =E2=80=9CCannibals, Kabul & Kabbalah=E2=80=9D A reading and book party to celebrate the publication of Adeena Karasick=E2= =80=99s=20 The House That Hijack Built (Talonbooks), with a multivocal performance, vid= eo=20 projections, tarot readings, and jazz. Daniel Carter, Drew Gardner and Alan=20 Semerdjian will be the evening=E2=80=99s special guest musicians.=20 The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:59:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: cummings on poetrying Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed 9 e. e. cummings on poetrying -- "Poets and artists, especially in America, make me sick. What right has such a beggar to take on airs? I have no more interest or respect for a man because he can write a poem or paint a picture that can hang in the Louvre than I have for a man because he can fix the plumbing or design a beautiful motor car. "I make poems because it is the thing I know how to do best. In fact, it's about the only thing I know how to do. America doesn't want poems badly enough to make it a profitable business to be engaged in." and -- "A poet is a penguin -- his wings are to swim with." gregory vincent st. thomasino http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com eratio is reading -- http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/contact.html 9 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:02:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <20041130.034314.-32091.11.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve wrote: ..| many of us start very young ..| so what does this art lack? ..| well EXPERIENCE of course Another way to look at this Steve (for those specifically enrolled in MFA programs and the like around the world): the biggest obstacle to educated youth is their lack of INEXPERIENCE -- which they owe precisely to their over-education; what I think you get at when you speak in terms of errors with 'filters'. ..| those youngins and lots of old folk too ..| do NOT write FROM experience but ..| from knowledge of the craft... Yes, exactly. Lack of inexperience again. And who do we have to thank for this 'crafting' of the art? When did 'knowledge of the craft' (a quantity) replaced the craft itself? Who planted and endorsed this seed of administrative-activity; this measuring-line mechanic? Richard asked: ..| who is to say what is ..| good or bad poetry I always think to answer questions like these with Spinoza since his answers arrive via geometric proof (without quantity; non-empirical) and cannot be faulted: Spinoza's Proposition XXXI (from 'Ethics'): In so far as a thing is in harmony with our nature, it is necessarily good. Proof: In so far as a thing is in harmony with our nature, it cannot be bad for it. It will therefore necessarily be either good or indifferent. If it be assumed that it be neither good nor bad, nothing will follow from its nature (IV:Def.i.), which tends to the preservation of our nature, that is (by the hypothesis), which tends to the preservation of the thing itself; but this (III:vi.) is absurd; therefore, in so far as a thing is in harmony with our nature, it is necessarily good. Q.E.D. (spinoza means here that there is no indifference with harmony - derek) Corollary: Hence it follows, that, in proportion as a thing is in harmony with our nature, so is it more useful or better for us, and vice versa, in proportion as a thing is more useful for us, so is it more in harmony with our nature. For, in so far as it is not in harmony with our nature, it will necessarily be different therefrom or contrary thereto. If different, it can neither be good nor bad (IV:xxix.); if contrary, it will be contrary to that which is in harmony with our nature, that is, contrary to what is good - in short, bad. Nothing, therefore, can be good, except in so far as it is in harmony with our nature; and hence a thing is useful, in proportion as it is in harmony with our nature, and vice versa. Q.E.D. ..| those poets sitting in the wings ..| who have reputations of being ..| good or have awards etc? It is to our discredit that most people feel inferior at the prospect of being equal and feel compelled to construct reputations to secure their fantasies. Ultimately something is 'good' because we choose to seek it (see spinoza above), not for any other reason. Awards, reputations, etc., are assembled in order to escape from ourselves ('the thing itself'). Chiefly they operate as stand-ins (quantities; pure fantasies) to defer and confuse consideration of the particular in favor of ornamental wonder (hyperbole; useless additions). Reputation is *attributed to* which is a source outside and foreign to the person or object in question; it is tacked-on. Things are also similarly 'awarded' and 'presented'. (It should not be hard for anyone to understand my meaning here, even though the understanding itself may be hard on the feelings; there isn't a living Firefly who would tolerate being called an 'upstart'.) The greater point here should be that reputations, awards, flag-waving, name-dropping etc. all exist and are of a natural order in the course of things as they happen, but, error is made when we, collectively or individually (maybe just individually since there is no collective without the individual first) attribute value to these attributions -- that is, when we *choose to validate* absurdity or mere imperfect human opinion and remove our innate good-sense in favor of extrinsic denomination. Mickey lamented: ..| I've lost my artistic confidence. I used ..| to make terrific poems & now... I don't ..| want to talk about it ... [any] remedies? Even finding nothing is a discovery. I think you may have lost your ornamentation -- whatever compelled you to convince yourself things were terrific -- and now you appear to be in a more honest position. Liberty has freed you from the restriction and control of the condition/prison of 'terrific-ness'. You've just been paroled! What you do now is your own *choice* -- and that is full of potential. -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:21:44 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: poetrying In-Reply-To: <000f01c4d730$ae5e8a90$88e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Awards, reputations, etc., are assembled in order to escape from > ourselves ('the thing itself'). Chiefly they operate as stand-ins > (quantities; pure fantasies) to defer and confuse consideration of the > particular in favor of ornamental wonder (hyperbole; useless > additions). Reputation is *attributed to* which is a source outside > and foreign to the person or object in question; it is tacked-on.< Just so. Reputation is what others think of you; contrast it with "honor", which is what you think of yourself. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:31:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Abstraction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Of failure, of course. > Have you read Balzac's short story, "The Unknown Masterpiece"? > > -Joel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Bales" > To: "Joel Weishaus" > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 1:38 PM > Subject: Re: Abstraction > > > > Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > > ... Could the Abstract Expressionists have accomplished what they > > > > > did without being in midst of demanding experiences, of trying to > > > > > survive the Depression even while agonizing over their work? I > > > > > don't think so. If anything, abstraction demands more from the > > > > > living gut. > > > > Marcus wrote: > > > > More what? > > > > Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > Risk, inside and out. > > > > Risk of what. > > > > Marcus > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:24:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The similarities between music and poetry is a creation of rhythm. These rhythms evoke an emotional response in us that is almost primal. Language allows you to feed off of the emotions created by these rhythms. Auden said all poems written by a poet must be believed by that poet to make his work authentic. One of the reasons he edited his early works. While Bukowski thought that everything he wrote was mindless drunken babble. Somewhere you have to add in taste. Do you love to read Hemingway or Hunter S. Thompson? Can you enjoy both? > I'm not sure music is mathematical - in a  sense all operations of the mind
> etc that have logical or other kinds of sequences etc are "mathematical" -
> the key to poetry is that it is of course based on the word  - the
> experience of the word or language is primal -it begins when we hear our
> mothers the first time and when we hear people talking - speech and language
> are essential  music could be dispensed with - we don't want to of ours but
> we don't need music - but we meed speech and poetry relates to speech and
> language -however you define it and it is almost the thing that makes us
> human - and when we 'work' -  in the medium of language (like the musicians)
> we are I feel with Joe tapping into something larger than ourselves - though
> exactly what it is I don't know (more than music - the human voice -the
> language we use is powerful -its modulations far more intense than music can
> ever be or any other art form) (sometimes I think that music destroys the
> silence needed to think and listen to words or speak words in this world - I
> go fro days and don't listen to music, but I must hear a voice or read some
> words in a poem or a book (aloud as I often do - to myself))..as to age - I
> think that was "more creative" as a teenager but I think I had even less
> idea of what everything was about than I do now - still don't know very much
> more than when I was 20 or so - my life experience at 56 I think  (but
> memory plays tricks!) "powers" or informs my writing (when I do write) - if
> one is healthy - within some limits  - creativity ranges across a wide age
> spectrum - a young person's mind works better ( - the brain - mind seems to
> be at its optimum from about 20 to 50 or so - but that must vary - we are
> all unique) but an old person has life experience.... but it doesn't concern
> me what other people think the thing is to do or write if one wants: I
> haven't written much for while but I haven't written myself off!!
>
> As well as music - in the last analysis - we can also do without critics who
> talk about "making it" - critics are failed writers etc
>
> Richard Taylor
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Weiss" <junction@EARTHLINK.NET>
> To: <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:48 AM
> Subject: Re: poetrying
>
>
> > Music is essentially a mathematical construct and as such is inherently
> > different from poetry. Tho of course there have been (a very few) very
> > great young poets--not as young as this kid. My guess is that that's not
> as
> > likely to happen now because of our changed expectations of poetry.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > At 12:22 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote:
> > >Mark:
> > >
> > >It's weird, though. I was watching 60 Minutes last night, the story of
> the
> > >child prodigy composer to whom the music just comes, music being
> > >commissioned for him to write, and I think he's about eight years old! Of
> > >course he's a prodigy, and so doesn't fit the mold. But I think it's some
> of
> > >both. You need life experience, lots of it and as varied as possible, in
> > >order to have something worth saying, and you must also have a line open
> to
> > >your Muse, the Mystery from where the creative impulse comes. As for this
> > >kid, for some unknown magic of the human brain, he's tapped into
> something
> > >much larger than himself, something we poets also have the privilege of
> > >glimpsing when we're writing well and beyond ourselves.
> > >
> > >-Joel
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Mark Weiss" <junction@EARTHLINK.NET>
> > >To: <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>
> > >Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 5:50 PM
> > >Subject: Re: poetrying
> > >
> > >
> > > > You seem to be speaking from both sides of the issue, which certainly
> > >makes
> > > > things more complex.  My own part of this discussion was more about
> the
> > > > health of poetry than about the health of individual poets. The
> problem,
> > >it
> > > > seems to me, is the similarity of experience that the
> institutionalization
> > > > of poetry has led to. Let's for a moment imagine Milton without his
> day
> > >job
> > > > or in a parsonage like Herrick. He wrote some pretty wonderful poetry
> > > > before taking on his political role, but Lycidas, which marks the
> decision
> > > > to do so, is I think the best of the early work, and his day job gave
> us
> > > > Paradise Lost, among a great deal else the best political poem in the
> > > > language. Tho the job kept him away from verse for a decade.
> > > >
> > > > Behind this discussion is I think another. I take George Bowering's
> > > > statement that "you effect poetry by writing it. It is not effected by
> a
> > > > set of circumstances affecting your life" as expressing an extreme
> > > > aestheticist position. Sure, you have to decide to write it in order
> to
> > > > write, a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition. But that's not
> the
> > > > whole of it.
> > > > Unless a poem is just "a machine made of words" (an aestheticist
> > > > pronouncement by one of the most engaged of poets) experience
> > > > matters--having in whatever sense decided to write one writes out of
> the
> > > > breadth of who we are, and that breadth (or narrowness) of being is
> > > > expressed in everything we write, regardless of intention. Otherwise
> we
> > > > risk being about as interesting as crossword puzzles, which are also
> > > > machines made of words.
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 08:06 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote:
> > > > > From a female (former and hopefully future) manager's perspective, I
> > > > >would like to make this discussion so very much more complex than it
> is
> > > > >now, somehow.  There is so much play between "like it should be"
> > > > >according to so many "them" and how one knows it has to be for
> oneself.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Early in what became my first career (and is unfortunately looking
> like
> > > > >it will be my second career), I did look to poets like Eliot (Pound
> > > > >"saved" him from the bank / himself), Williams, et.al.  I did feel
> that
> > > > >by having a day job, I was broadening my experience.  Also, while
> being
> > > > >a female technologist was a day in day out blow to self confidence,
> the
> > > > >paychecks were a nice counterbalance to what sometimes feels like
> > > > >constant utter writing failure.
> > > > >
> > > > >The same argument (the experience is good for you, makes you better,
> > > > >more, etc.) is made for children as is made for "real jobs".  That
> you
> > > > >can never know what it is like to -- blah blah -- that are you really
> > > > >human if you don't -- etc etc -- that you're not participating in the
> > > > >larger society -- and I think that got mentioned here in a small way.
> > > > >Maybe it should be mentioned in a big way.  I feel the societal and
> > > > >familial pressure for a woman -- me, any woman -- to have children,
> > > > >followed by the lack of value placed on mothers and children in the
> same
> > > > >society -- is the same sort of pressure that bears on poet / career,
> > > > >poet / artist, and artist / money situations.  Blatant and outrageous
> > > > >misunderstanding of what it is to work and write is everywhere.
> > > > >
> > > > >I don't pretend I would be a poet who would visit a shopping mall
> like I
> > > > >would visit Mars.  But -- why are sitcoms so not funny?  Why do most
> > > > >broad comedies not elicit laughter (except for the schtick?)? Why is
> > > > >Billy Collins  dull? (though I do find the Victoria Secret
> > > > >discomfiting)?  Many of these stories sell something (via product
> > > > >placement), but they also sell something by their situation, through
> > > > >their story.  So they are extraordinarily dull if you're outside the
> > > > >situation / audience / market. While I'd love to slag Jim Belushi,
> > > > >sitcoms aren't funny because they're selling stereotypes very
> seriously.
> > > > >And that is not funny.  For the same reason, I cringe whenever W
> makes a
> > > > >joke about making / not making his wife do public speaking followed
> by
> > > > >the sure dry chuckle it elicits from his audience.
> > > > >
> > > > >I waste a lot of time worrying that my detailed knowledge about
> luxury
> > > > >objects is evil.  But I DO write a great deal about them.  I DO have
> a
> > > > >nearly-book-length project having to do with cooking... and the
> fashion
> > > > >designer poems in Da3 are a blend of criticism about the designs and
> > > > >writings / quotes from the designers.
> > > > >
> > > > >All best,
> > > > >Catherine Daly
> > > > >cadaly@pacbell.net
> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:32:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: forward: call for submits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello all Just a note to let you know that I'm planning on publishing a small mail-out periodical called DIRECT POETICS It's free but donations will not be turned down No poetry, however, only essays, notes, reviews, etc presented in simple format--photocopied sheets, staple-bound, half folded, and mailed out-- So if you'd like to submit, or join the mailing list, I set up an email account at directpoetics@lycos.com or write me at 8630 Wardwell Rd, Bainbridge Island, WA 98110 Hope all is well with you Yrs, Drew Drew Kunz