========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 01:33:59 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit post coitum i sweep dead dry leaves apres la reverie poetique into plastic bag & down the compactor amo amas amat the world is round sail home je t'aime my love as if as if as if my hands were made of water my body air & then.... after midnite....fell down...fall up...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:22:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: poetrying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Only a Poet Has ever a poet been only a poet only a poet for free... have any good poets lived only as poets=20 while writing their poetry... and not working as poets removed from their poetry have they: sold shoes in summer hawked safety insurance built houses=20 cleaned toilets swabbed ship's decks or climbed up a tree to lop-off top branches swung shovels of shit from the barns near Toledo or razed the walls slowly exploding=20 with hyperbole while planning and plotting and pruning their poetry? Has ever a poet been only a poet=20 not me... =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 01:52:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: feintingbunting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit conquering car street scheme golden human renders tires sparkles spun bleeding pies speckles pillars perspective slouched at foot of taxably after words moved at boot at foolish reply stands the classic pendulum brand aid home-made agent change of stolen stones done at last a public stairway cause no washday painting stale bread a vague display of water of column shade a crumbling inch each grain a casual complete as no surprise assists its silken seeming moral monocle of tiers ground to fine point evidence as usual as such in place replacing circles serious new twist to all crucial paper entry carried to a full extent ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 03:33:40 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: A question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just finished the second of two long poems-15 or so pages each-that go together as a kind of diptych, "Poem for my Husband" and "Poem for my Wife." (The speakers of the poems, however, are not, at least in my imagination, married to each other.) "Poem for my Wife" has been published in Bellowing Ark. My question is this: I would like to see these poems read by actors; each is a kind of monologue, and so I am wondering if there's anyone on the list in the New York area who either knows people who might be interested in doing such a thing or who might themselves be interested. Oh, I should be clear, I am not talking about actually producing the poems as a theater piece-at least not yet; I have no idea if they would work that way. But I would like to see what someone who is an actor does with these two characters I have created. Thanks, Rich Newman _________________________ Richard Jeffrey Newman Associate Professor, English Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu www.ncc.edu richardjeffreynewman.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 03:51:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Freedom's just another word for some place to abuse. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Freedom's just another word for some place to abuse. I can't stand it at this point. This is rant. I'm sick and tired of debates. I'm sick and tired of hair-splitting. I find myself hating the word 'Christian' and everything it stands for. We Jews should have killed ourselves off; instead, we channeled virulent monotheisms of all stripes, holocausts without number. We let others do it and do it to us. We do it to ourselves and others. I hate the word 'pro-life' and everything it stands for - while children around the world are starving and it's going to get worse. I'm tired of reasoning against the monolith. Most of all I hate the word 'freedom' which is a dirty word for everything we want to do around the world. 'Freedom fries'? You bet - it exposes our intolerance of anyone daring to disagree with us. I've been using the word 'fascism' recently; I've always avoided it the past. I see our situation similar to Karl Kraus' - including the weakening of the dollar, new levels of mass communication and discourse networks, silent organizations of disparate groups like the Freikorps into a right-wing mass. Don't take it seriously! Satire works wonders. I find Bush a blunt ideologue, one whose violence will ultimately take the world down. If not Bush, someone else, but the guise is the same, and as mass communications and populations increase, others equally or far more violent will come along. Fundamentalisms of all sorts can only take over in a world of such leaky information flow that the poor are sent to the Pale, unrepresented, polluted. If I were Pale-poor I would join my masters to fight their masters. O the righteous fight. Simulacra return with a vengeance in the face of weapons of mass destruction - and you know what? These weapons smash ontology in the face. No longer the world of everyday things - but the world of silent, invisible, and absent killers, hidden regimes of information, nuclear and other radiations, invisible viral plagues - all plasma, seepage - what I've been on about for years. Give me a medal. I can't master my hatred. I turn it against myself. It's so good for you. I'm harmless. I'll eat my own flesh. But let me ask you: If you could kill a world leader - without repercussion - anyone you found criminal or ultra-violent, a Bin Laden or Hussein - if you could do this without any recrimination, as if by magic, would you? Would you pray for the death of a criminal if you believed in prayer? If a criminal and a leader were one and they were prayed to death, I sure wouldn't want to make an example of them because then we'd have another Christ to contend with. One, two, a million, Christs, Meshiachs, Messiahs, Holinesses, grave-diggers, grave-robbers, undead all. Deliverance of kindness ends up at the wrong end of a gun. The Christ of the sermon-mount has all but disappeared. Whatever happened to liberation theology? Marx and decon are now dirty words and sooner or later someone will bring up Jew Derrida, Jew Levi-Strauss, all those intellectuals, and the problems they made for Jew-Marx, Lyotard, Heidegger, all those others. Return of the killers, killers back at you. We're there waiting for them. We'll contribute with the book, one, two, a million books. We'll theorize them to hell and back. We'll show them. We'll show them pictures. We'll talk that forbidden subject, biology. We'll ignore the hatreds, poisons, in our systems, our genetic cess-pools, our desire repeatedly to bring the world down around us for a filthy grasp at heaven. We'll stab science in the back as intelligence creationism and arguments about life-tissue send the world environment teetering towards extinction of pretty much everything around us. Not much time till armageddon (without capital), slow and dirty. You can't argue with biology, man. You can't argue with biology, baby. Who twists our necks? We twist our necks. Who twists our necks? We twist our necks. Freedom's just another word for someone to abuse. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 03:54:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: correction! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I've always avoided it the past should be I've always avoided it in the past I love Englsh! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:48:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Re: Freedom's just another word for some place to abuse. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't forget to add democracy into your words to hate category. Fix an election and you can abuse your people like we do. Cramming democracy down the throats of the world--Become a democracy or die---Sounds a little like the Spanish inquisition. I applaud what's going on in the Ukraine. > Freedom's just another word for some place to abuse.
>
> I can't stand it at this point. This is rant. I'm sick and tired of
> debates. I'm sick and tired of hair-splitting. I find myself hating the
> word 'Christian' and everything it stands for. We Jews should have killed
> ourselves off; instead, we channeled virulent monotheisms of all stripes,
> holocausts without number. We let others do it and do it to us. We do it
> to ourselves and others. I hate the word 'pro-life' and everything it
> stands for - while children around the world are starving and it's going
> to get worse. I'm tired of reasoning against the monolith. Most of all I
> hate the word 'freedom' which is a dirty word for everything we want to do
> around the world. 'Freedom fries'? You bet - it exposes our intolerance of
> anyone daring to disagree with us.
>
> I've been using the word 'fascism' recently; I've always avoided it the
> past. I see our situation similar to Karl Kraus' - including the weakening
> of the dollar, new levels of mass communication and discourse networks,
> silent organizations of disparate groups like the Freikorps into a
> right-wing mass. Don't take it seriously! Satire works wonders. I find
> Bush a blunt ideologue, one whose violence will ultimately take the world
> down. If not Bush, someone else, but the guise is the same, and as mass
> communications and populations increase, others equally or far more
> violent will come along. Fundamentalisms of all sorts can only take over
> in a world of such leaky information flow that the poor are sent to the
> Pale, unrepresented, polluted. If I were Pale-poor I would join my masters
> to fight their masters. O the righteous fight.
>
> Simulacra return with a vengeance in the face of weapons of mass
> destruction - and you know what? These weapons smash ontology in the face.
> No longer the world of everyday things - but the world of silent,
> invisible, and absent killers, hidden regimes of information, nuclear and
> other radiations, invisible viral plagues - all plasma, seepage - what
> I've been on about for years. Give me a medal.
>
> I can't master my hatred. I turn it against myself. It's so good for you.
> I'm harmless. I'll eat my own flesh. But let me ask you: If you could kill
> a world leader - without repercussion - anyone you found criminal or
> ultra-violent, a Bin Laden or Hussein - if you could do this without any
> recrimination, as if by magic, would you? Would you pray for the death of
> a criminal if you believed in prayer?
>
> If a criminal and a leader were one and they were prayed to death, I sure
> wouldn't want to make an example of them because then we'd have another
> Christ to contend with. One, two, a million, Christs, Meshiachs, Messiahs,
> Holinesses, grave-diggers, grave-robbers, undead all. Deliverance of
> kindness ends up at the wrong end of a gun.
>
> The Christ of the sermon-mount has all but disappeared. Whatever happened
> to liberation theology? Marx and decon are now dirty words and sooner or
> later someone will bring up Jew Derrida, Jew Levi-Strauss, all those
> intellectuals, and the problems they made for Jew-Marx, Lyotard,
> Heidegger, all those others. Return of the killers, killers back at you.
> We're there waiting for them. We'll contribute with the book, one, two, a
> million books. We'll theorize them to hell and back. We'll show them.
> We'll show them pictures.
>
> We'll talk that forbidden subject, biology. We'll ignore the hatreds,
> poisons, in our systems, our genetic cess-pools, our desire repeatedly to
> bring the world down around us for a filthy grasp at heaven. We'll stab
> science in the back as intelligence creationism and arguments about
> life-tissue send the world environment teetering towards extinction of
> pretty much everything around us. Not much time till armageddon (without
> capital), slow and dirty.
>
> You can't argue with biology, man. You can't argue with biology, baby.
>
> Who twists our necks?
> We twist our necks.
> Who twists our necks?
> We twist our necks.
>
> Freedom's just another word for someone to abuse.
>
> _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:59:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Fw: [aim] Activist takes AIM at how history is taught Comments: To: Kevin Okeefe , Vince DeCarlo , Tony Bowen , Kimberly Bowen , samuel davis , Guy Pillette , Mike Norwood , Mike Kosiak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://independent.gmnews.com/news/2004/1130/Front_Page/010.html =20 =20 Activist takes AIM at how history is taught=20 Hawk's Blood visits Brookdale for lecture on American Indian issues=20 BY KAREN E. BOWES Staff Writer =20 PHOTO: = http://independent.gmnews.com/news/2004/1130/Front_Page/010p1_xlg.jpg KAREN E. BOWES Santos Hawk's Blood sells American Indian crafts to = Marissa Karlovits, of Holmdel, as Juliana Monroy, Marlboro, looks on.=20 =20 MIDDLETOWN - The "American holocaust" has been overlooked for too long.=20 =20 "Twenty-six million people do not disappear into thin air."=20 =20 That was the message Santos Hawk's Blood, a Chiricahua Apache American = Indian, brought with him to Brookdale Community College last week.=20 =20 "In Germany, they know more about the American Indian holocaust then we = do. And here, we know more about the Jewish holocaust," said Hawk's = Blood during the Nov. 23 lecture.=20 =20 American Indians, once the sole inhabitants of present day United = States, now comprise less than 1 percent of the total population. = However, with only 50,000 full-blooded Indians left in America, the = ratio of teenage suicide and infant mortality are the highest in the = country, according to Hawk's Blood.=20 =20 "People are still dying on the reservation," said Hawk's Blood. "My son, = he's 22, tried to take his own life several times. He was diagnosed with = schizophrenia. He's too smart for his own good, has too much of a = brain."=20 =20 Hawk's Blood, a former Atlantic Highlands resident, is currently living = in Pipe Creek, Texas, where he's worked as an actor is such films as = "Autumn in New York." He is a founding member of the American Indian = Movement, (AIM) an activist group that fights for Native American civil = rights.=20 =20 "We hear all about the Jewish holocaust and black slavery," said Hawk's = Blood. "Why are they ignoring something that happened here? You can't be = more of a minority if your numbers are less than 1 percent. We're a = dying race, it's safe to say."=20 =20 Hawk's Blood gave examples throughout America's history of the = systematic murders that eventually decimated the American Indian = population.=20 =20 "[Lord Jeffrey] Amherst discovered that American Indians didn't do too = well with smallpox and the measles. He would have them contaminate a = blanket and send it into the villages," said Hawk's Blood. "And they = named a college after him."=20 =20 According to Hawk's Blood, in 1973, American Indians were the = fastest-growing population in the country. Around this time, the federal = government began to require that all American Indians receive a vaccine = to ward against common illnesses such as the flu. It was later = discovered that the vaccine was actually a sterilization drug and that = many women were unwillingly sterilized as a result.=20 =20 From 1972 to 1976, the estimate of total sterilizations was around 3,000 = per year for four years, according to a report by Charles R. England, = available on the Internet.=20 =20 Hawk's Blood also used the opportunity to clear up common misconceptions = about American Indians.=20 =20 "Casinos do not represent reality," Hawk's Blood said. "The poorest = place in America is on the reservation. Yes, the Pequots [American = Indian people of eastern Connecticut] have done well, but most native = people still don't have much."=20 =20 As for religion, the population is split down the middle, with most = American Indians choosing to practice Christianity and a small percent = still acting as traditionalists.=20 =20 "I'm sure Christ didn't say, 'Go to America and kill Indians,' " Hawk's = Blood said.=20 =20 Although a critic of the practices of the American government against = his people, Hawk's Blood considers himself a patriot, having served in = the Vietnam War and with plans to travel to Iraq in the near future.=20 =20 "We love our country," said Hawk's Blood. "We love our people - it has = nothing to do with the government."=20 =20 Still, it's not always easy being an American Indian in the Southwest.=20 =20 "No one else has to carry a card that shows the percent of blood [in = them], why should we?" he asked. "Anything under an eighth disqualifies = you from any benefits from the U.S. government. And the benefits are a = joke."=20 =20 Hawk's Blood ended his seminar by singing a traditional song while = playing a drum his grandfather made in the early 1900s.=20 =20 "There are only 50,000 full-bloods left in the United States, and I'm = one of them. I'm proud of it," said Hawk's Blood.=20 =20 For details on upcoming American Indian events at Brookdale, call = Professor Jess Levine at (732) 224-2975.=20 =20 __________________________________________________ Material appearing here is distributed without profit or monitory gain = to those who have expressed an interest in receiving the material for = research and educational purposes. This is in accordance with Title 17 = U. S. C. section 107. =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20 Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aim/ =20 b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: aim-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of = Service.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:09:20 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Freedom's just another word for some place to abuse. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't kid yourself, Russell Ain't nothin to do with democracy, nor freedom L -----Original Message----- From: Russell Golata To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 01 December 2004 09:50 Subject: Re: Freedom's just another word for some place to abuse. >I applaud what's going on in the Ukraine. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:58:03 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: The Analogous Series: David Shapiro and Peter Gizzi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The Analogous Series presents: David Shapiro and Peter Gizzi http://www.analogous.net/shapirogizzi.html * * * Sat. December 4, at 5 PM. 45 Carleton St., room 111, Cambridge, MA David and Peter will present a collaborative reading & talk: "Art and Poetry in a Time of Terror" * * * David Shapiro was a violinist in his youth. At fifteen he met Frank O'Hara, corresponded with John Ashbery, and was collaborating with Kenneth Koch and many painters of the so-called New York School. David is a tenured art historian at William Paterson University, and has been teaching poetry to architects at Cooper Union for the past twenty years. He has written over twenty volumes of poetry and prose, including the first book on Ashbery, the first book on Jim Dine's painting, the first book on Johns' drawings, and the first study of Mondrian's much tabooed flower studies. He edited An Anthology of New York Poets, as well as a book on aesthetics: Uncontrollable Beauty. His most recent books of poetry include A Burning Interior, After a Lost Original, and House (Blown Apart). Peter Gizzi's poetry collections include Artificial Heart (Burning Deck, 1998) and Some Values of Landscape and Weather (Wesleyan, 2003). In fall of 2004 Salt Publishing in England will reprint his first book along with 60 pages of early and uncollected work as Periplum and other poems (1987-1992). He is also the editor of The House that Jack Built: The Collected Lectures of Jack Spicer (Wesleyan, 1998). * * * DIRECTIONS: 45 Carleton Street is the Health Services building at MIT, also known as building E25. It is adjacent to the main T Station in Kendall Square, behind the Cambridge Savings Bank on Main St. (near the corner of Main and Ames) in Cambridge. * * * The Analogous Series is curated by Tim Peterson Fall schedule available at http://www.analogous.net/fall2004.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:23:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Call for Papers on C.L.R. James Comments: To: cfp@english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Papers on any aspect of the life and works of C.L.R. James are invited for a panel to be presented at the meeting of the American Literature Association. May 26-29, 2005 Boston, MA - The Westin Copley Place Hotel All paper proposals should be emailed to: Aldon L. Nielsen ALN10@PSU.EDU Deadline for submission of proposals is January 5, 2005. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:15:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bradley Redekop Subject: dutch masters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii dutch masters have always been revolting been having always been revolting the dutch masters revolting has begun. http://freeteam.nl/ex/video/dcblackcat.avi ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 06:15:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: various NEA threads In-Reply-To: <194.32f2a7b0.2eddfe94@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Bill Austin wrote: >Very entertaining post. But don't we know all this? People who don't enter >can't win? I'll go out on a limb and assume that only the very slow think >they can earn a prize without entering the contest. Even the >dullest bulb in the >pack knows that in order to win the lottery, you gotta buy a ticket. I'm >also fairly confident that most listserv members know the score, and are >acquainted with the info you provide. Because several people wrote interchangeably about NEA fellowships and MacArthur fellowships (which for all intents and purposes IS a lottery that youcan't buy a ticket for), I'M not so sure that "we know all this", but, again, maybe that's just me. >I, for one, served as Associate Director for the Louisiana Endowment for the >Humanities, and I saw first hand how those panels worked. I absolutely stand >by my remarks. Anyone who believes that politics and cronyism are not >involved is just naive. (You admit that they occur, so you're not.) >Wow, were they >ever involved! I was hoping the NEA was doing a better job, at least in >choosing poetry with a contemporary flavor. What could possibly make you think this might be so? I'm not naive about how politics and cronyism work on grant panels but I've seen these tactics used to support "innovative" work as often as I've seen them used to disallow "innovative" work. I guess it's possible that some panelists who are supportive of "innovative" work wouldn't also try to game the system, but that seems like a lost opportunity rather than corruption that must be decried. >I don't think it's true that the NEA has never rewarded innovation in arts >other than poetry. I may be wrong, but my impression is that it did so on a >fairly regular basis until Karen Finley and Co. caught the attention of the >Conservatives. Performance art, as one example, was still a new >item, so most of >the fellowships went to artists who were doing something contemporary, >something more or less inventive. And there IS the very occasional award to >progressive poetry, to Ron Silliman (2003) who is hardly run of the >mill, whether one >likes his method or not. Uh, I didn't write that "the NEA has never rewarded innovation in arts". I wrote that "the NEA has NEVER made "innovation" in the arts a major priority for support, either for organizations or individuals." Many NEA grants have been made to makers, producers and presenters of "innovative" arts in many different genres over the years. But the guidelines for applications used by panels for considering grants have never (or at least very very rarely) included innovation as a criteria; the NEA has been consistent in supporting things that can be positioned as possessing both "excellence" and "stability." This goes back to how the agency was sold to Congress and has continued in nearly all of the arguments for sustaining the Endowment ever since. When the fellowships to Finley, Fleck, Hughes & Miller were made in 1990 it was in a theater program for which the majority of grants were made to playwrights who wrote pretty standard plays. There was never an NEA program that gave fellowships in "performance art" as such. Any artists who might be considered to be "performance artists" who received fellowships from the NEA applied in programs that supported theater, dance, visual arts, or music. & all of these fellowship programs supported FAR MORE artists working in the traditional modes of these genres than they did artists who were somehow "breaking new ground." >The Nobel, we know, is as mired in politics as is our Federal agency, perhaps >moreso. Yet they manage to reward the innovative more often, even in the >area of literature. You've either got a low threshold of what counts as "innovative" or a very selective list of Nobel laureates in literature. When I look at the winners of the Nobel Prize for literature for the last hundred years, "innovation" is not exactly the first word that comes to mind. But yeah, something like 5-10% IS literally more often than 1-5%. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:07:24 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Slought Foundation's Cross Burnings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed from Slought Foundation's website: Description: Slought Foundation, a non-profit organization rethinking contemporary art, is currently organizing an intimate cross burning on December 3, 2004 from 6-7pm, in accordance with a 2002 U.S. Supreme Court ruling affirming a First Amendment right to cross burnings on private property (see attached PDF for the 2002 Term Opinion in Virginia Vs. Black). The burning will utilize twelve miniature crosses featured in the exhibition, and these crosses will be subsequently returned to the exhibition after the burning. The location of the burning has not been disclosed at this time. This event seeks to demystify the idea of burning a cross and the fear so often associated with it, and to suggest that as a form of protected free speech its symbolic meaning is not exclusive to the Ku Klux Klan, and can be appropriated in turn by others. The proceedings will be documented in video format (which will be subsequently displayed in our storefront monitor), and have been organized in conjunction with "Non-Retinal," an exhibition of "Kovert Konflagration Kovenant," new work by blind African-American sculptor David Stephens, from November 13, 2004-January 31, 2005 at Slought Foundation. More information on the exhibition is available here: http://slought.org/content/11233/ In David Stephen's varied and distinguished arts career in Philadelphia he has worked as a teacher, dealer, and administrator (with the Pennsylvania Council on the Arts). He has served on the board of the Fabric Workshop, Nexus, the Woodturning Center, the Brandywine Workshop and other local arts institutions, as well as advised and nurtured many community art programs including those at Taller Puertorriqueno, the Painted Bride, and the West Philadelphia Cultural Alliance. An artist and sculptor, Stephens has recently had a solo show at the Philadelphia Airport of work created during a residency at the Fabric Workshop. In 1999 his graphic work was shown at The Moore College of Art, and in 2003 he exhibited his work, entitled "144 Crosses for the 144,000," at The Noyes Museum, the fourth in a series of installations generated by his interest in the work of visionary artist James Hampton. Now blind due to the early-onset of glaucoma, Stephens often incorporates Braille into his work, creating objects of interpretation, discursivity, and touch. The cross, which Stephens considers to be "emblematic of the process of transformation," frequently appears in his work as well; he finds it fascinating that the cross was used as a Roman form of torture but was later adopted by Christianity as a symbol of redemption. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:12:18 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: hip hop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I finally stopped complaining about what I called rap crap and listened to the best of a new generation of word & music, the hip hop fusion genre of old & new, I discovered the artists listed below are very good. My son (part of Jesus Perron & Lyfewyze = Something Eutopian) also insisted I add some his favorites. Afficianados please forgive my spelling. Favorite fusion elements are jazz, reggae and rock. Hip hop is often too lyrically dense for me and in that respect I prefer avant garde and and jazz readings like Vernon's or Steve's. Maybe I'm just too old and can't focus much anymore. Word spoken or read is often too intellectual, contemplative so word with music provides a visceral element I need for relief. The dedication and authenticity of many hip hop artists is just as serious for them as it is for beat type poets. Word up. mos def (black star) talib qweli (black star, reflection eternal) dj hi-tek (reflection eternal) jurassic 5 dilated peoples hieroglyphics fugees (wyclef jean, lauryn hill, etc.) eminem beastie boys outkast bubba sparxxx nas tupac the roots nappy roots arrested development public enemy az gangstar ghetto boys kanye west queen latifah rakim pharcyde krs-one missy misdemeanor elliot masta ace royce 5'9" danger mouse & gemini jean grey main flow wu tang clan a tribe called quest wordsworth and punchline main flow ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:34:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: popular In-Reply-To: <8b.1b6dad16.2ede4bfd@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ..| Thanks for this Derek. Interesting, good, bad?? ..| If it leads to publishing opportunities or not, it's ..| great to have poetry rerecognized Yes, I will soon be starting a Professional Association of Poets to alleviate this new demand -- it will be a specialist trade union dedicated to advancing professional development opportunities for all poets. Of course there will be several levels of professional membership and even membership associations available (includes annual union/member due to support our distribution and publicity networks, facilitate creation of new poetry merchandise, and to promote corporate sponsorships). after all the business of poetry is business ___________________________________________ Poetry is now so popular that British universities face a supply-and-demand dilemma. So many students want to sign up for poetry classes that there are not enough professional poets to teach them. http://csmonitor.com/2004/1130/p13s01-legn.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:55:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: if my fist clenches, crack it open MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alas, another missive from the darkling plain of = www.unlikelystories.org. This month: Gabriel Ricard has an exclusive interview with Henry Rollins Alan Sondheim offers his notes on the election, in outline form Jonathan Penton reviews Beat Thing by David Meltzer Ginger Hamilton Caudill on poverty in West Virginia short fiction by B. Z. Niditch, Robert Levin, Norman A. Rubin, Marie = Kazalia, James Wall, and Dave Clapper poetry by Shane Allison, Luis Cuauhtemoc Berriozabal, Ron Spurga, Aryan = Kaganof, Wendy Taylor Carlisle, Lawrence Welsh, Alison Withers, Lisa = Zaran and Jim Ellis and A Sardine on Vacation, episode twenty-two Woe. Woe. Woe! -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:09:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: new writings on PRIME (Peace Research Institute in the Middle East) In-Reply-To: <7F2143FE-4323-11D9-8BC2-000D93B497AE@nyc.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New writings on PRIME (Peace Research Institute in the Middle East). These are descriptions of peace-building projects undertaken by Palestinians and Israelis working together. PRIME is run by a Palestinian, Sami Adwan, and an Israeli, Dan Bar-On. ************************* "Learning Each Other's Historical Narrative" in Israeli and Palestinian Schools A Joint Palestinian and Israeli Curriculum Development Project January, 2002 - December 2007 http://vispo.com/PRIME/leohn.htm "This project of the Peace Research Institute in the Middle East (PRIME) focuses on teachers and schools as the critical force over the long term for changing deeply entrenched and increasingly polarized attitudes on both sides of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The goal of the project is to "disarm" the teaching of Middle East history in Israeli and Palestinian classrooms. Specifically, teams of Palestinian and Israeli teachers and historians will develop parallel historical narratives of the Israeli and Palestinian communities, translate them into Hebrew and Arabic, and test their use together in both Palestinian and Israeli classrooms. Unlike other projects that are limited to revising existing Israeli and Palestinian texts, the PRIME project aims at engaging teachers on both sides in an entirely new collaborative process for teaching the history of the region. At this stage in their polarized history there is not enough common ground for Israelis and Palestinians to create a single historical narrative. Rather, the project is designed to expose students in each community to the other's narrative of the same set of events. For the first time, students in each school system (beginning with 15 and 16 year olds) will not only learn what shapes their own community's understanding of historical events, but be required to confront the historical perspectives and contexts that shape the other community's sense of reality." ************************* Establishing a "Localized" Process for A Truth and Reconciliation Commission In Israel and Palestine To Address Refugee Issues at the Heart of the Conflict http://vispo.com/PRIME/truthandreconciliation.htm "....For this reason, the Peace Research Institute in the Middle East (PRIME) has developed a new "localized" methodology for approaching Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation. The methodology focuses on recording oral histories to document Palestinian refugees who fled, or were forced out of specific locations within Israel and Jewish-Israeli immigrants who settled in those same locations, many of them after fleeing the Holocaust or persecution in Arab lands. It also involves recording local Palestinian-Israeli encounters that bring together a small number of such families-up to three generations each-over several days." ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:09:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Science textbook disclaimers! In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Kindly forwarded by a friend gravity, evolution, etc. Perhaps you already have your set. If not: http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/cpurrin1/textbookdisclaimers/ Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:19:05 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: rob's clever blog Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new(ish) on rob's clever blog www.robmclennan.blogspot.com - a review of Ian Samuels' The Ubiquitous Big (Coach House Books) - it feels so good when they pay attention (Melanie Little on Poetics.ca; Nathanial G. Moore on Groundswell: best of above/ground press, 1993-2003) - McLennan, Alberta (a genealogical question) - above/ground press chapbook subscriptions (a blatant advertisement) - the duke of somerset (an elegy) - a review of Peter Jaegar's Eckhart Cars (Salt) - ongoing notes, November 2004 (on Jessica Smith's blueberries; Nelson Ball's WITH HELD; Grant Wilkins' Murderous Signs #10) - my time as writer-in-residence at the 2004 ottawa international writers festival - ALL AMERICANS: recent works by Rob Budde, Fred Wah & Stephen Cain - october 27, from "a day book" (a poem) - an opening, a letter: some notes on Fred Wah & Open Letters Alley Alley Home Free (etcetera) also, a review of Mari-Lou Rowley's Interference with the Hydrangea (Thistledown Press, 2003) & Viral Suite (Anvil Press, 2004) http://www.danforthreview.com/reviews/poetry/rowley.htm -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:22:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Bouchard Subject: The Poker # 5 available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The Poker # 5 poems by Rachel Loden, Chris McCreary, John Ashbery ("Patience is nothing to write home about"), Kevin Davies, Kaia Sand, Marcella Durand, Drew Gardner, Michael Carr, and Fanny Howe; an interview with Robin Blaser ("[Spicer] sent George Stanley and Stan Persky and, who was the third?, up there with protest signs: 'Fuck Duncan,' 'Fuck Jess,' 'Fuck Chi-Chi.' Well, Duncan called the police. I came out but forgot to take off my dragon costume which rather upset the policemen. I got in there and we talked." conducted by John Sakkis; several previously unpublished poems by Jack Spicer ("The other day I saw the corpse of Emily Dickinson floating up the Charles River"); a long out-of-print essay by Laura Riding ("Trollope is one of the noble exceptions: always at pains not to forget or to let his readers forget that he is an ordinary person unnaturally provoked by circumstances (the need of money) into authorship." introduced by Logan Esdale; Tim Peterson reviewing books by Allison Cobb and Brenda Iijima, and responses to Steve Evans's "Field Notes" in The Poker 4 by Nathaniel Tarn ("He had an extremely fresh approach to a problem I have been writing about for many years") and Kent Johnson ("In the case of our 'cutting-edge' poetry, it's clear that the plumage adapts at great speed..."). www.durationpress.com/thepoker Back Issues also Available at $6 per issue for Limited Time . The Poker 1: poetry by Alice Notley, Chris Stroffolino, D. A. Powell, Daniel Bouchard, George Stanley, Jennifer Moxley, Juliana Spahr, Kevin Killian, Kimberly Lyons, Laura Elrick, Philip Jenks, Robert Mueller, and Shin Yu Pai interview with Kimberly Lyons book reviews of Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Joseph Torra, Brenda Bordofsky, MacGregor Card, Karen Weiser and The World in Time and Space (ed. Donahue and Foster) Back Issues also Available at $6 per issue for Limited Time The Poker 2: poetry by Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Kit Robinson, Ange Mlinko, Colin Smith, Camille Guthrie, David Perry, Jennifer Scappettone, K. Silem Mohammad, Joseph Torra, Merrill Gilfillan special poetry section: iraqi poets Jawad Yaqoob, Sadiq al-Saygh, Dunya Mikhail, Yousif al-Sa'igh, Sami Mahdi, Fawzi Karim, Gzar Hantoosh, Sinan Anton, Mahdi Muhammed Ali art by Tom Neely an essay by Jennifer Moxley book reviews of Paul Metcalf, Philip Whalen, Sara Veglahn, Kenneth Rexroth Back Issues also Available at $6 per issue for Limited Time The Poker 3: poetry by Fanny Howe, James Thomas Stevens, Dale Smith, Daniel Bouchard, Jacqueline Waters, Alan Davies, Gleb Shulpyakov, Andrew Schelling, Jules Boykoff, Bruce Holsapple an interview with Kevin Davies essays by William Carlos Williams (introduced by Richard Deming), Fanny Howe, and Aaron Kunin plus a book review of Anselm Berrigan Back Issues also Available at $6 per issue for Limited Time The Poker 4: poetry Anna Moschovakis, Cole Heinowitz, Aaron Kunin. Giuseppe Ungaretti, Hoa Nguyen, Ange Mlinko, Nathaniel Tarn, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Cedar Sigo and Elizabeth Marie Young; an interview with Ange Mlinko; essays by Juliana Spahr and Steve Evans and book reviews of Kent Johnson and Dale Smith Current issue: $10 Subscription: 3 for $24 Send to: Daniel Bouchard PO Box 390408 Cambridge, MA 02139 - daniel bouchard If you're in NYC tomorrow night: ACA Galleries hosts a launch party for The Poker #5 (Boog City presents and d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press) Thursday, December 2, 6 pm (tho we are told things tend to start later) 529 West 20th Street 5th Floor New York, NY www.durationpress.com/thepoker brief poetry readings by Marcella Durand, Laura Elrick, Cole Heinowitz, Kim Lyons, Ange Mlinko, Jacqueline Waters, and Others music by Drew Gardner hosted by Daniel Bouchard series curated by David Kirschenbaum crackers-n-cheese, wine, & other beverages kindly provided by ACA Galleries ><>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard Senior Production Coordinator The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 <>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><>> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:54:22 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: U2 Vs. Negativland: The Sequel Comments: To: ImitaPo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2290680118 Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:55:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: hip hop In-Reply-To: <12d.50bc5f6f.2edf5572@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'd add MC Solaar, who raps in three languages--his African tribal language, Berber and French--but is unknown here because he doesn't rap in English. also two local groups whose presence may seem larger to me because they are local: Blue Scholars and Silent Lambs Project. it's just plain ignorant to say that hip-hop does not continue to be serious, even if the groups out there don't cast quite the shadows of their predecessors. that's called the anxiety of influence and the anxiety is something the reader/listener feels as well as the performer. to judge hip-hop by what is top forty, which is where you might get the ideas it's just gangstas is about as fair as judging poetry by what gets into Poetry. and no NEA under the thumb of Bush is going to fund the efforts of hip-hop musicians, regardless how independent their expression is. the only option is self-sustaining and/or having a day job. perhaps this makes them more authentic, I don't know. Robert Mary Jo Malo wrote: When I finally stopped complaining about what I called rap crap and listened to the best of a new generation of word & music, the hip hop fusion genre of old & new, I discovered the artists listed below are very good. My son (part of Jesus Perron & Lyfewyze = Something Eutopian) also insisted I add some his favorites. Afficianados please forgive my spelling. Favorite fusion elements are jazz, reggae and rock. Hip hop is often too lyrically dense for me and in that respect I prefer avant garde and and jazz readings like Vernon's or Steve's. Maybe I'm just too old and can't focus much anymore. Word spoken or read is often too intellectual, contemplative so word with music provides a visceral element I need for relief. The dedication and authenticity of many hip hop artists is just as serious for them as it is for beat type poets. Word up. mos def (black star) talib qweli (black star, reflection eternal) dj hi-tek (reflection eternal) jurassic 5 dilated peoples hieroglyphics fugees (wyclef jean, lauryn hill, etc.) eminem beastie boys outkast bubba sparxxx nas tupac the roots nappy roots arrested development public enemy az gangstar ghetto boys kanye west queen latifah rakim pharcyde krs-one missy misdemeanor elliot masta ace royce 5'9" danger mouse & gemini jean grey main flow wu tang clan a tribe called quest wordsworth and punchline main flow ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 12:50:51 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Freedom's just another word for some place to abuse. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Ukraine ! Those who are buying into he crap of Western democracy are fooling themselves. It is a split probably engineered by those wanting to divide that area and weaken it -its likely the CIA etc are behind it. The Soviet Union has been deliberately destroyed both by those inside who got paid off and by those wanting to invest into the place. Nothing good ever comes of "freedom" as Alan points out in his (rather too depressed "rant" ) the word is used to mislead and divert people : Bush uses it constantly while bombs crash down on whatever country (almost always a country with resources needed or near to another country that has big oil or other products wanted by capitalism) - Alan's "rant" has some points but is that Alan talking or Alan's "project" or is he just having a bad day - I think that people don't equate Marx with his being Jewish very much - of course its one way the right can go and other philosophers may have been Jewish etc Marxism isn't a dirty work nor is deconstructionism both are interesting and useful ideational systems - against this pessimism theer are many people working for - shall we say "the greater good" and there are also people literally fighting. The holocaust has happened I see to the American Indian people - thinking people are aware of these things - we have a chance to prevent the ongoing holocaust of Western Imperialism - it worries me that the Indian guy is a patriot - sounds as if the Indians ( or he is) saying - "look, this great country has all but exterminated us(me) but we love hem" - in fact it sounds like the words of coward - and of course its thus a plaint but nothing happens because they don't want to criticise the Government of the country in which they were the first inhabitants - but that character is maybe not representative - some Maori are like that here - others are very strong and politically aware - the best know that the Govt is no good that its not very good "loving NZ" - by nurturing the culture etc Maori in NZ are experiencing a revival here but there are of course big problems and issues but no way were they wiped out - it came close of course - disease was a problem as many were not resilient to European disease and there were those who would want Maori exterminated - eg in areas such as the NZ "heartland " such as the Waikato and so on - but there are strong movements by Maori and others to counteract that. But it is true that the general situation (Iraq, he Indians, Israel, Africa, Chechnya, even the lot of the working class in the so-called "free" countries - etc etc) is not good - but where there is life there is hope. Alan's tone -ironic or not - shows he hurts - but it seems a bit too dark... Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Golata" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 10:48 PM Subject: Re: Freedom's just another word for some place to abuse. > Don't forget to add democracy into your words to hate category. Fix an > election and you can abuse your people like we do. Cramming democracy down > the throats of the world--Become a democracy or die---Sounds a little like > the Spanish inquisition. > I applaud what's going on in the Ukraine. > > > > > Freedom's just another word for some place to abuse.
> >
> > I can't stand it at this point. This is rant. I'm sick and tired of
> > debates. I'm sick and tired of hair-splitting. I find myself hating > the
> > word 'Christian' and everything it stands for. We Jews should have > killed
> > ourselves off; instead, we channeled virulent monotheisms of all > stripes,
> > holocausts without number. We let others do it and do it to us. We do > it
> > to ourselves and others. I hate the word 'pro-life' and everything > it
> > stands for - while children around the world are starving and it's > going
> > to get worse. I'm tired of reasoning against the monolith. Most of all > I
> > hate the word 'freedom' which is a dirty word for everything we want to > do
> > around the world. 'Freedom fries'? You bet - it exposes our intolerance > of
> > anyone daring to disagree with us.
> >
> > I've been using the word 'fascism' recently; I've always avoided it > the
> > past. I see our situation similar to Karl Kraus' - including the > weakening
> > of the dollar, new levels of mass communication and discourse > networks,
> > silent organizations of disparate groups like the Freikorps into a
> > right-wing mass. Don't take it seriously! Satire works wonders. I > find
> > Bush a blunt ideologue, one whose violence will ultimately take the > world
> > down. If not Bush, someone else, but the guise is the same, and as > mass
> > communications and populations increase, others equally or far more
> > violent will come along. Fundamentalisms of all sorts can only take > over
> > in a world of such leaky information flow that the poor are sent to > the
> > Pale, unrepresented, polluted. If I were Pale-poor I would join my > masters
> > to fight their masters. O the righteous fight.
> >
> > Simulacra return with a vengeance in the face of weapons of mass
> > destruction - and you know what? These weapons smash ontology in the > face.
> > No longer the world of everyday things - but the world of silent,
> > invisible, and absent killers, hidden regimes of information, nuclear > and
> > other radiations, invisible viral plagues - all plasma, seepage - > what
> > I've been on about for years. Give me a medal.
> >
> > I can't master my hatred. I turn it against myself. It's so good for > you.
> > I'm harmless. I'll eat my own flesh. But let me ask you: If you could > kill
> > a world leader - without repercussion - anyone you found criminal > or
> > ultra-violent, a Bin Laden or Hussein - if you could do this without > any
> > recrimination, as if by magic, would you? Would you pray for the death > of
> > a criminal if you believed in prayer?
> >
> > If a criminal and a leader were one and they were prayed to death, I > sure
> > wouldn't want to make an example of them because then we'd have > another
> > Christ to contend with. One, two, a million, Christs, Meshiachs, > Messiahs,
> > Holinesses, grave-diggers, grave-robbers, undead all. Deliverance > of
> > kindness ends up at the wrong end of a gun.
> >
> > The Christ of the sermon-mount has all but disappeared. Whatever > happened
> > to liberation theology? Marx and decon are now dirty words and sooner > or
> > later someone will bring up Jew Derrida, Jew Levi-Strauss, all > those
> > intellectuals, and the problems they made for Jew-Marx, Lyotard,
> > Heidegger, all those others. Return of the killers, killers back at > you.
> > We're there waiting for them. We'll contribute with the book, one, two, > a
> > million books. We'll theorize them to hell and back. We'll show > them.
> > We'll show them pictures.
> >
> > We'll talk that forbidden subject, biology. We'll ignore the > hatreds,
> > poisons, in our systems, our genetic cess-pools, our desire repeatedly > to
> > bring the world down around us for a filthy grasp at heaven. We'll > stab
> > science in the back as intelligence creationism and arguments about
> > life-tissue send the world environment teetering towards extinction > of
> > pretty much everything around us. Not much time till armageddon > (without
> > capital), slow and dirty.
> >
> > You can't argue with biology, man. You can't argue with biology, > baby.
> >
> > Who twists our necks?
> > We twist our necks.
> > Who twists our necks?
> > We twist our necks.
> >
> > Freedom's just another word for someone to abuse.
> >
> > _ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:55:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: *cris cheek* at Wayne State Friday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cris cheek / Lowestoft, U.K. Poet and performance/media artist Friday, December 3, 3 PM 10th Floor Conference Room 5707 Woodward, Suite 10302 Wayne State University, Detroit www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/cheek.pdf cris cheek, an internationally acclaimed UK poet, visual artist, and sound= =20 composer will offer a full-length program of his work. His multi-media=20 performances will include voice projections, new media animation, poetry,=20 and live and recorded sound. An avidly political and inventive artist,=20 cheek=92s writing =93moves away from the page and towards an environment of= =20 performance and experience.=94 cris has an interest in the boundaries= between=20 poetry and song, gathering a Sony Gold Award for broadcast work on=20 song-poems used for healing in southwest Madagascar. He is currently writer= =20 in residence at Miami University, Ohio. Born in London, cris cheek lives in Lowestoft, North Suffolk, where he=20 curates Sound & Language recordings and publications. He has composed,=20 recorded and performed with many =91groups,=92 including jgjgjgjgjgjgj=85= (as=20 long as you can say it that=92s our name), Co-Accident, Garam Masal=20 (polylingual ghazals performed with Samie Malik, Sukhdeep Singh and Sianed= =20 Jones) ,and Slant (cris cheek, Phillip Jeck and Sianed Jones). His writing= =20 is often presented in multiple versions and in varying sites, frequently in= =20 collaboration with other artists. Much of his recent work concerns=20 multi-authorship and models for creative collaboration. He currently works collaboratively with Kirsten Lavers as =93Things Not= Worth=20 Keeping" (see their web site at www.thingsnotworthkeeping.com). "Things Not= =20 Worth Keeping" integrates a range of media in projects that raise questions= =20 about aesthetic and cultural value. He has taught performance writing at=20 Dartington College of Arts, U.K., where he was a Research Fellow in=20 interdisciplinary texts. He has recently completed a Ph.D. in "hybridising= =20 writing through collaboration and performance" at Lancaster University. http://www.soton.ac.uk/~bepc/poets/cheek.htm ***** *Global Poetics* is curated by Barrett Watten, Carla Harryman, and Jonathan= =20 Flatley. For more info contact Carla Harryman at c.harryman@wayne.edu /=20 313-577-4988. Free admission; the public is cordially invited. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:16:41 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: on Ange Mlinko's "fact" about Ron Silliman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recently on the new blog "minor american" (which is conducted by the blog duo Magdalena Zurawski and Ange Mlinko), the following came up from Mlinko: "That the rumor that Ron Silliman said (way back when) that women stopped producing good writing when they had children, is true. He said it to her [Hejinian]. Telling me this, I think, was a way of impressing on me the underlying bond that exists between the women of that generation of writers." It's somewhat clear that it was Hejinian who told this "fact" to Mlinko, and that of course we're led to believe that Silliman had said this to Hejinian. The statement, "is true," in this whisper-down-the-lane "fact" is not qualified in any way. I mean, HOW is it true? Just SAYING that it "is true" doesn't mean much. And if he did say it, how was it said? Was it an observation he made on the spur of the moment? Was he quoting Camille Paglia? And by the way, does he believe this now? Let's stick with the question, Does he believe this now? And let's be perfectly fucking clear here, because anyone who has been paying attention to Silliman, knows damn well that he supports women writers. In fact, he has had nothing but high praise for Alice Notley, and we all know she has had two children, and has gone onto write some pretty mind blowing poems afterward. He has been supportive of plenty of other women poets, as well as many younger women poets, Ange Mlinko among them, by the way. But let's suppose he DID make this comment. HOW long ago was it? And, is he NOT allowed to change his mind? What really is the goal here anyway? Is change for the better really the goal? If it is, then why all this secondhand information in order to build a wall around a man who quite obviously does not believe this NOW, whether or not he ever did in the first place? Shouldn't the goal be to include everyone? Especially those who might have reformed their previous ideas of the world? Make room at the table please, CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:44:53 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Slought Foundation's Cross Burnings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hats off to this. This subject has sore corners on every side. You won't find a Democrat in DC who will dare speak out against this very well-aimed attack at free speech. But then again, that's no surprise, since it's very difficult to find anyone in DC who did NOT vote for the Patriot Act. Not long ago I was talking with a coworker about making cross burning illegal, and she said "Good!" And when I made it clear that I thought it was a bad idea, she dropped her jaw and asked me why on earth I would support cross burning. It's not that I support cross burning, but the right to do it. If we cannot see how this Right Wing government is using this as a way of shutting up many other mouths with such a law, then we will be famished one day very soon to speak out when we no longer can. As much I despise them doing it, I can't help think how brilliant an idea it is, and how easy in this politically correct environment, where most people would be afraid of speaking out for the Klan. Who ever thought the ACLU would be representing the Klan of all groups? But I'm glad the ACLU is there. On another ACLU note, not even their lawyers were able to do anything for gay and lesbian workers of Cracker Barrel restaurants who were fired when a new company policy banning homosexuals in the workplace was passed some years ago. To this day, it is still legal to fire someone for being queer in many states. Many folks don't believe me when I tell them, but go ahead and look it up yourself. The freedom to fuck and talk and smoke and who knows what else is quickly slipping away. CAConrad p.s. But I still believe Kerry and Edwards are working at the recount, and may very well discover that they are indeed the winners. And if so, we may have a shot at something new. Maybe Kerry can remove the fucking Patriot Act that HE voted for! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 00:07:49 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: what's correct quote? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DI Mallarme' Johns Hopkins 1950's "The Book" & "music & literature" chapters Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 01:15:03 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: *cris cheek* at Wayne State Friday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cris read for us here at Larry's poetry Forum on Monday, & I recommend seeing him read if possible, while he's in the states. His use of sound and sense of the political make the show. Nice tip of the hat to Schwitters on the sound material. Not sure if he is using film at all, for the Friday reading but his presentation background for the Three little Heretics section he did here w/ Keith Tuma, who read, & Bill Howe, who was absent, really emphasized our city in a surreal collegiate super-size me way without the urban element. Go Bucs. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 02:34:29 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hinter den kulissen behind the eyelids des reichparteitag circles of light films films 2:22....wind gusts up to 50 m.p.h...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 04:58:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: peace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed peace http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim/peace.mov peace < --- > [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ]chmnt: cur Subject : Forwarded mail....tp://trace.ntu. [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ] Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/i [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ]trace.ntu.ac To: sondheim@panix.comdex.htmnt T [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ]htmnix.com polarized countr currentymbiosi http://www. [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ]projects http://t k/writers/sondheim/index.htmt [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ]ink To: sondheim@panix.com volt.ircce to abus Trace proj [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ]www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim/kiev.mov Size 31.2 kB - File type video/quicktime _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 05:04:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: current MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed current http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim/kiev.mov C:\dvd\kiev.m2v 720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:02|NTSC|@ C:\dvd\kiev2.m2v)720x480|29.97|4:3|00:00:03|NTSC|5560 kbps C:\dvd\kiev.m2v C:\dvd\kiev2.m2v C:\dvd\kiev.wav(|48.0 kHz|16 bits|00:00:02|PCM|1922 kbps C:\dvd\kiev2.wav(|48.0 kHz|16 bits|00:00:03|PCM|1708 kbps C:\dvd\kiev.wav C:\dvd\kiev2.wav ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 01:41:42 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: on Ange Mlinko's "fact" about Ron Silliman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we all say things we dont mean or that we haven't ever said - I disagreed on some political points of view with r silliman but i hope that doesnt translate into now disapproving of his poetry etc (or me or he thinking one of us is :" dishonourable " ) (we have to live in world of very diverse views (seems so obvious when I say that..)) after all sometimes what a person may say at one moment doesn't reflect their view at another and so on but i believe that R S as far as i know him (only via cyberland) is a good personage It all sounds like a storm in a teacup - Alice Notley is a great poet as far as I see it. Richard Taylor And if he did say it, how was it said? > Was it an observation he made on the spur of the moment? > Was he quoting Camille Paglia? > And by the way, does he believe this now? > > Let's stick with the question, Does he believe this now? > And let's be perfectly ....clear here, because anyone > who has been paying attention to Silliman, knows > damn well that he supports women writers. In fact, he > has had nothing but high praise for Alice Notley, and we > all know she has had two children, and has gone onto > write some pretty mind blowing poems afterward. He has > been supportive of plenty of other women poets, as well > as many younger women poets, Ange Mlinko among them, > by the way. > > But let's suppose he DID make this comment. > HOW long ago was it? And, is he NOT allowed to > change his mind? > > What really is the goal here anyway? Is change for the > better really the goal? If it is, then why all this secondhand > information in order to build a wall around a man who quite > obviously does not believe this NOW, whether or not he > ever did in the first place? Shouldn't the goal be to include > everyone? Especially those who might have reformed > their previous ideas of the world? > > Make room at the table please, > CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:57:28 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From the beginning of the French controversy of disallowing Muslim girls and young women to wear their head coverings in public school, I have been unsure how I feel. On one hand, I understand WHY the French government feels this is important, removing signs of religious statement from a publicly funded institution. (If the government is really so concerned, then maybe they should consider a standard school uniform, provided to students with tax payer's money, so as to not allow the rich kids to wear expensive, designer clothes: an emblem of their own family's religious devotion to money.) But on the other hand, it's problematic for a democracy to prescribe such things, in light of a belief in promoting freedom. How is telling someone what to wear or not wear ever a sign of freedom? Not only that, but it does seem as though the French government needs to see how these head scarves are not just religious, but cultural as well. When discussing this recently with a friend, she said, "Yeah, well if you are Christian or Jewish in Saudi Arabia you'd be expected to conform to dress code." But the goals of a democracy shouldn't be, "Well, they do this, so we should do that." A democracy's goal should be inclusion, to be an example of harmony, to be bigger and better than the mono-view governments ruled by religion. Also, there's the problem of isolating the Muslim community. And angering perfectly sensible citizens can open them up to the dogma of religious extremists. On our own shores, America has an ongoing and endless battle for conduct in the classroom, one which almost makes me side with the French government's decision. America is overwhelmed with religious fundamentalism which is hell-bent (so to speak) on capturing and manipulating the information flow in public schools. For years now, born again Christians have run for, and been elected into school boards and other local political offices. All across this country there are weekly debates about such topics as allowing Walt Whitman's poems to be taught, on the grounds that he "promotes homosexuality." As Rita Odessa--head of the Philadelphia Gay & Lesbian Taskforce--recently said to me, "Instead of fighting for better textbooks and better wages for teachers, and smaller classroom sizes to improve the education the children are receiving, we wind up wasting our time with these ridiculous debates over Walt Whitman!" In the end though, isn't anything taught a form of indoctrination? An argument could be made that teaching the joys of economics is promoting globalization, which I believe it probably does. I've met enough stock brokers to see that few people are losing sleep at night over trade with countries where the workers only have two days off a month, and work 13 hour days. Somewhere behind this is some nerdy Economics teacher excited about GNP and showing the young minds the latest color coded bar graphs mapping out the most up to date shifts of the DOW. Am I saying Economics should not be taught? No, I'm saying that it's almost unheard of that students are being taught the impact our economy--and the greed of those who maneuver it--has on countless lives across the globe. No one said it better than La Tzu, when he said that where there is wealth, poverty must exist to balance. I say replace the fucking school prayer time with readings from the Tao De Ching, preferably the Stephen Mitchell translation. Let young minds open to the idea that this planet is much too fragile to continue cloaking ourselves behind church and mosque walls. My argument is a wash in the end, because I see both sides, and the answers are too hidden in the gray. Striking a balance between "freedom from" and "freedom to do and be" is tricky. CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:58:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerry Subject: Paschke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i. m. Paschke i denti fiables give way to blank faces silhouettes afterimages have burned through one scrim revealing an other Gerald Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:11:07 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 2 Dec 2004 at 8:57, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > >From the beginning of the French controversy of > disallowing Muslim girls and young women to wear > their head coverings in public school, I have been > unsure how I feel. On one hand, I understand WHY > the French government feels this is important, > removing signs of religious statement from a publicly > funded institution. ... > But on the other hand, it's problematic for a democracy > to prescribe such things, in light of a belief in promoting > freedom. How is telling someone what to wear or not > wear ever a sign of freedom? ...<< In the US, as I see it, the basic social contract is this: you must agree to be an American first, and whatever else you are second, third, and fourth. That is to say, the US social contract demands political loyalty to outweigh loyalty to one's cultural, religious, familial, and other relationships, in order to make clear to all citizens that the role of citizenship is explicitly not cultural or religious or familial or whatever, but, instead, explicitly political. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:05:00 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: To Do List thanks to Raymond Foye Comments: To: reiner@cats.ucsc.edu, laurelreiner@aol.com, damon1054@yahoo.com, jani@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, oconn001@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, lcucullu@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, edcohen@rci.rutgers.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >From: John Landry >Subject: Fwd: To Do List thanks to Raymond Foye > >>> >>> >>>Some things to do before the Inaugural: >>> >>>1 Get that abortion you've always wanted. >>>2 Drink a nice clean glass of water. >>>3 Cash your Social Security check. >>>4 See a doctor of your own choosing. >>>5 Spend quality time with your draft age child/grandchild. >>>6 Visit Syria, or any foreign country for that matter. >>>7 Get that gas mask you've been putting off buying. >>>8 Hoard gasoline. >>>10 Borrow books from library before they're banned - >>>Constitutional law books, Catcher in the Rye, Harry Potter, Tropic >>>of Cancer, etc. >>>11 If you have an idea for an art piece involving a crucifix - do it now. >>>12 Come out - then go back in - HURRY! >>>14 Stay out late before the curfews start. >>>16 Go see Bruce Springsteen before he has his "accident." >>>17 Go see Mount Rushmore before the Reagan addition. >>>18 Use the phrase, "You can't do that - this is America." >>>21 Take a walk in Yosemite, without being hit by a snowmobile or a >>>base-jumper. >>>22 Enroll your kid in an accelerated art or music class. >>>23 Start your school day without a prayer. >>>24 Pass on the secrets of evolution to future generations. >>>26 Learn French. >>>29 Take a factory tour anywhere in the US. >>>30 Take photographs of animals on the endangered species list. >>>31 Visit Florida before the polar ice caps melt. >>>32 Visit Nevada before it becomes radioactive. >>>33 Visit Alaska before "The Big Spill." >>>-- >>> > > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Outside of a dog a book is a man's best friend. >Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. > (Groucho Marx) -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 10:08:51 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: various NEA threads MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Herb: << Looking back on the forty years or so the agency has operated, the NEA has NEVER made "innovation" in the arts a major priority for support, either for organizations or individuals. Whatever organizations or individual artists who received support from the NEA in the past who work in any of the various "innovative" traditions of art received the support based on other criteria entirely. The NEA generally rewards quality and stability, judging both by entirely subjective means based on information and materials submitted with application forms.>> You're right, that's what you wrote. You didn't say that the NEA "never" rewards innovation. You said that the NEA never makes it a priority. But Herb, look at what follows. You write that "Whatever organizations or individual artists who received support from the NEA in the past who work in any of the various 'innovative' traditions of art received the support based on other criteria entirely." If NEA awards, as you say, are always based on "other criteria entirely," then you are saying that the NEA NEVER rewards innovation -- which is precisely what I said that you said. I was focusing on your paragraph rather than on one or two sentences. I don't think I misrepresented you, but if you think so, you have my apology. << You've either got a low threshold of what counts as "innovative" or a very selective list of Nobel laureates in literature. When I look at the winners of the Nobel Prize for literature for the last hundred years, "innovation" is not exactly the first word that comes to mind. But yeah, something like 5-10% IS literally more often than 1-5%. >> Well, yes. I made clear in a couple of posts that I was willing to lower my threshold almost to the floor. I wrote, for example, that I'd be satisfied with conventionally stanza-ed poetry whose content was at least a little edgy. I posted that one a while ago. And we agree -- the first percentage range is better than the second. So, as I wrote, the Nobel rewards innovation more often that does the NEA unless, of course, the Nobel also bases all of its awards on "other criteria." So much for Claude Simon. <> I do not consider you naive. That's why I wrote that you were not. RE: gaming the system: gerrymandering any system supposedly functioning through blind submissions, in support of any cause, seems like corruption to me. Maybe your threshold for corruption is really high. But I assume it isn't. I assume we both would like a fair system, largely free of political shenanigans, through which the most creative artists are rewarded. Sure, I can be cynical about it all. I usually am. I can say to myself, "Hey, there's one more example of a committee of fuddy duddy intellects and political dickering resulting in the lowest common denominator. What else is new?" There are few issues these days that get me out of my chair. Poetry happens to be one of them. Herb, I get what you're saying, and agree with most of it, and I think most list members, far from "ignorant" on this score, get it too, including the difference between the NEA and the MacArthur. My guess is that those who wrote "interchangeably" about the NEA and MacArthur were focusing on the results rather than the process. If I'm wrong, well, I'm wrong. You obviously know your business, as do I. You, I, and several others on this list have done a fairly thorough job re: this issue. What more can be said? Good thread! Best always, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 17:23:16 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I have to disagree with your negative read on the French head scarf rule. The French have been historically insistent on secularism in schools. This policy was not created to humiliate muslims. It was exercised to prevent the kind of bullying that you mention is happening in American schools. French public schools do not permit crosses worn outside a student's clothing, & yarmulkes are likewise forbidden. To say that it's cultural is to imply that all muslim women are required to cover their hair. This is not, & has not been true. Neither the Koran nor the Hadith require women to wear the hijab. Many muslim women do not. Many others are bullied into it by extremists. And of course, some wear it as a matter of personal choice. The fundamentalist requirement of the hijab stems from the belief that women radiate their sexual energy from their hair. Therefore, it must be suppressed, so as not to complicate men's lives. We're back to the ol' Eve Apple in the 21st century. I agree that nations shouldn't live by Saudi Arabia's standards. It is, after all, a tyrannical government. But be aware that the push for head scarves in French schools came largely from Islamist strains that at least partially agree with Saudi women's attire mandates. The scarf issue is an Islamist political football, much in the way the nuances of abortion issues are exploited by the Christian Right here in the USA. Frank Sherlock >From: Craig Allen Conrad >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: on forced Secularism >Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:57:28 EST > >From the beginning of the French controversy of >disallowing Muslim girls and young women to wear >their head coverings in public school, I have been >unsure how I feel. On one hand, I understand WHY >the French government feels this is important, >removing signs of religious statement from a publicly >funded institution. > >(If the government is really so concerned, then maybe >they should consider a standard school uniform, >provided to students with tax payer's money, so as >to not allow the rich kids to wear expensive, >designer clothes: an emblem of their own family's >religious devotion to money.) > >But on the other hand, it's problematic for a democracy >to prescribe such things, in light of a belief in promoting >freedom. How is telling someone what to wear or not >wear ever a sign of freedom? > >Not only that, but it does seem as though the French >government needs to see how these head scarves >are not just religious, but cultural as well. When >discussing this recently with a friend, she said, "Yeah, >well if you are Christian or Jewish in Saudi Arabia >you'd be expected to conform to dress code." But >the goals of a democracy shouldn't be, "Well, they >do this, so we should do that." A democracy's goal >should be inclusion, to be an example of harmony, >to be bigger and better than the mono-view >governments ruled by religion. > >Also, there's the problem of isolating the Muslim >community. And angering perfectly sensible >citizens can open them up to the dogma of >religious extremists. > >On our own shores, America has an ongoing and >endless battle for conduct in the classroom, one >which almost makes me side with the French >government's decision. America is overwhelmed >with religious fundamentalism which is hell-bent >(so to speak) on capturing and manipulating the >information flow in public schools. For years now, >born again Christians have run for, and been >elected into school boards and other local >political offices. All across this country there >are weekly debates about such topics as allowing >Walt Whitman's poems to be taught, on the >grounds that he "promotes homosexuality." > >As Rita Odessa--head of the Philadelphia >Gay & Lesbian Taskforce--recently said to me, >"Instead of fighting for better textbooks and >better wages for teachers, and smaller >classroom sizes to improve the education >the children are receiving, we wind up wasting >our time with these ridiculous debates over >Walt Whitman!" > >In the end though, isn't anything taught a >form of indoctrination? An argument could be >made that teaching the joys of economics is >promoting globalization, which I believe it >probably does. I've met enough stock brokers >to see that few people are losing sleep at night >over trade with countries where the workers >only have two days off a month, and work >13 hour days. Somewhere behind this is >some nerdy Economics teacher excited about >GNP and showing the young minds the latest >color coded bar graphs mapping out the most >up to date shifts of the DOW. > >Am I saying Economics should not be taught? >No, I'm saying that it's almost unheard of that >students are being taught the impact our >economy--and the greed of those who >maneuver it--has on countless lives across >the globe. No one said it better than La Tzu, >when he said that where there is wealth, >poverty must exist to balance. > >I say replace the fucking school prayer time >with readings from the Tao De Ching, >preferably the Stephen Mitchell translation. >Let young minds open to the idea that this >planet is much too fragile to continue >cloaking ourselves behind church and >mosque walls. > >My argument is a wash in the end, because >I see both sides, and the answers are too >hidden in the gray. Striking a balance between >"freedom from" and "freedom to do and be" >is tricky. > >CAConrad _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 11:36:47 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" this french head scarf issue is immensely complicated... excellent analysis in ~the new yorker~ just a few weeks back (18 november), "beneath the veil," by jane kramer, that really throws into relief the various factors/factions, aspects of which will doubtless open some eyes (it did mine, that much is certain)... an interview with kramer about her article: http://www.newyorker.com/online/content/?041122on_onlineonly01 but really, if you haven't already, check out the article itself... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 13:40:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Christophe Tarkos (1964-2004) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am sorry to pass on the sad news of the death, on November 30, of= Christophe Tarkos, the energetic and performance-oriented French poet who= did so much to enliven new French poetry over the past decade. Christophe,= who had been ill for several years, was 40. Stacy Doris & Chet Weiner edited a selection of his writing for Roof Books= (2001): Ma langue est po=E9tique, Selected Writing. Our poetry has suffered a blow. But Tarkos's work already shows a means for= recovery.=20 Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 14:07:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 12/3-12/8 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Friday, December 3, 10:30 pm Adeena Karasick Presents =B3Cannibals, Kabul & Kabbalah=B2 A reading and book party to celebrate the publication of Adeena Karasick=B9s The House That Hijack Built (Talonbooks), with a multivocal performance, video projections, tarot readings, and jazz. Daniel Carter and Alan Semerdjian will be the evening=B9s special guest musicians. Monday, December 6, 8:00 pm Jean Donnelly & Karen Weiser Jean Donnelly is the author of the julia set and Anthem, which was selected by Charles Bernstein for the 2000 National Poetry Series and published by Sun & Moon Press. She co-founded the journal So To Speak: A Feminist Journa= l of Language & Art at George Mason University, and currently lives and works in Washington, DC. Karen Weiser=B9s recent chapbooks are Eight Positive Trees and Placefullness, and her poems also appear in Isn=B9t It Romantic: 100 Love Poems by Younger American Poets (Verse Press, 2004), Van Gogh=B9s Ear, and Jacket. She is studying for her doctorate in English at the CUNY Graduate Center and teaches at Barnard University. Wednesday, December 8, 8:00 pm Allison Cobb & Rodrigo Toscano Allison Cobb is the author of Born 2 (Chax Press, 2004) and a co-editor of Pom2. Rodrigo Toscano is the author of To Leveling Swerve, Platform, The Disparities, and Partisans. His work has recently appeared in War and Peace (O Books, 2004) and The Best American Poetry 2004 (Scribners). CALL FOR VOLUNTEERS: It=B9s That Time Again! The Poetry Project requests your ever-helpful presence for our 31st Annual New Year=B9s Day Marathon Reading. Activities/stations for volunteers include= : 1. SET-UP=20 2. DOOR=20 3. REFRESHMENTS=20 4. BOOKS=20 5. READER CHECK-IN=20 6. CROWD CONTROL=20 7. CLEAN-UP If you or anyone you know is interested, or for more details, please email info@poetryproject.com with a specified 2-hour time block and station(s) you=B9d like to possibly work. We=B9ll be hopping from 2 p.m. to approx. 3 a.m. this year. We look forward to hearing from you and expect the event to be the best New Year=B9s Day 2005 you=B9ll ever have. The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 16:12:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Heidi Lynn Staples =?ISO-8859-1?B?bull?= Peppermint Subject: [Fwd: SALTONSTALL FOUNDATION: 2005 Grants & Summer Fellowships] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit some grant info! chrs, heidi > From: "C. Saltonstall Foundation" > Date: 2004/12/03 Fri PM 12:06:38 CST > To: info@saltonstall.org > Subject: SALTONSTALL FOUNDATION: 2005 Grants & Summer Fellowships > > CALL FOR ENTRIES > 2005 Grants and Summer Fellowships available to Artists of New York State > APPLICATION DEADLINE is JANUARY 15, 2005 > > Thank you for helping us spread the word about our Grants and Summer > Fellowship programs to the eligible artists and writers in your area. > We would greatly appreciate it if you could include our information > in messages to your email lists, and any upcoming newsletters. Also, > please post it on your web site. Please note that some of our 2005 > Grant categories are unusual, and if you know of eligible artists > working in these genres, please make sure to get this information to > them. (Our grant categories change each year. Previous Saltonstall > Grant recipients and Fellows are eligible to re-apply every four > years.) > > 2005 SUMMER FELLOWSHIPS > Poets, writers, photographers and painters who live in New York State > are invited to apply for month-long Summer Fellowships at the > Saltonstall Arts Colony. Each artist has a private apartment and > bath with ample working space (including large studios for the > painters and a black-and-white darkroom for the photographer). All > studios include a balcony or a patio. A communal vegetarian supper is > served on weeknights and the kitchen is kept stocked with basic > supplies so that residents may make other meals for themselves.The > Saltonstall Arts Colony is on 200 acres in Ithaca, NY, located in > the heart of the beautiful Finger Lakes region. The Summer Fellowship > competition is open to artists who reside is the state of New York. > > 2005 GRANTS > The Constance Saltonstall Foundation for the Arts annually awards > grants of $5,000 to a limited number of writers and visual artists > who live in the central and western counties of New York state. (Go > to www.saltonstall.org to see list of counties.) > > GRANT CATEGORIES > EARTH ARTS, ENVIRONMENTAL ARTS > Art created using natural materials such as stones, soil, and leaves, > plus sands, grasses, branches, etc. or might conceptually refer to > environmental processes through photographs, drawings or mixed media. > > COMPUTER ART THAT DEALS WITH ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES > May include 2D or 3D computer-based design, animation, text with image, etc. > > FICTION Short stories or novels > > GRAPHIC NOVELS By definition, a stand-alone story in illustrated > comics form, published as a book. > > Application forms for both programs are available on line at > www.saltonstall.org > Deadline is January 15, 2005. > Read guidelines and review FAQ page. Input information directly into > the on line form, print and mail with supporting materials. > > The mission of the Constance Saltonstall Foundation for the Arts is > to support visual and literary artists in New York State, especially > in the Finger Lakes Region. > > > The Constance Saltonstall Foundation for the Arts > PO Box 6607 * Ithaca, NY 14851-6607 > 607.277.4933 > www.saltonstall.org > info@saltonstall.org > -- > > > > > The Constance Saltonstall Foundation for the Arts > PO Box 6607 * Ithaca, NY 14851-6607 > 607.277.4933 > www.saltonstall.org > info@saltonstall.org > Heidi Lynn Staples GUESS CAN GALLOP (New Issues) http://www.wmich.edu/newissues/New_Issues_Titles/Staples/Staples_Page_Frameset.html available for online purchase at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930974442/qid=1096222956/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-8422421-0966239?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 PARAKEET editors@parakeetmag.org 115 Roosevelt Avenue Syracuse, New York 13210 315-472-9710 blog: http://mildredsumbrella.blogspot.com "To makes u."--Gertrude Stein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 17:12:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm with Frank on this one. While there's no question that the right wing has lined up with the government on this one thing for pretty terrible reasons, the solid political center is also with it. Good to remember that the French have centuries of experience with religious divisiveness. The rich kids, by the way, go to expensive private schools, almost all of them catholic. There are also lots of less expensive religiously-affiliated schools of all denominations for the various orthodox. Fancy clothes are not much of an issue--the kids in the lycees in each of the several neighborhoods in Paris I've lived in looked ready to be carted away in the garbage. Judging at least by what one could see through the haze of smoke. Hard to believe the extent to which France is more democratic than the US. Mark At 12:23 PM 12/2/2004, you wrote: >I have to disagree with your negative read on the French head scarf rule. >The French have been historically insistent on secularism in schools. This >policy was not created to humiliate muslims. It was exercised to prevent the >kind of bullying that you mention is happening in American schools. French >public schools do not permit crosses worn outside a student's clothing, & >yarmulkes are likewise forbidden. > >To say that it's cultural is to imply that all muslim women are required to >cover their hair. This is not, & has not been true. Neither the Koran nor >the Hadith require women to wear the hijab. Many muslim women do not. Many >others are bullied into it by extremists. And of course, some wear it as a >matter of personal choice. > >The fundamentalist requirement of the hijab stems from the belief that women >radiate their sexual energy from their hair. Therefore, it must be >suppressed, so as not to complicate men's lives. We're back to the ol' Eve >Apple in the 21st century. > >I agree that nations shouldn't live by Saudi Arabia's standards. It is, >after all, a tyrannical government. But be aware that the push for head >scarves in French schools came largely from Islamist strains that at least >partially agree with Saudi women's attire mandates. The scarf issue is an >Islamist political football, much in the way the nuances of abortion issues >are exploited by the Christian Right here in the USA. > >Frank Sherlock > >>From: Craig Allen Conrad >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: on forced Secularism >>Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:57:28 EST > From the beginning of the French controversy of >>disallowing Muslim girls and young women to wear >>their head coverings in public school, I have been >>unsure how I feel. On one hand, I understand WHY >>the French government feels this is important, >>removing signs of religious statement from a publicly >>funded institution. >> >>(If the government is really so concerned, then maybe >>they should consider a standard school uniform, >>provided to students with tax payer's money, so as >>to not allow the rich kids to wear expensive, >>designer clothes: an emblem of their own family's >>religious devotion to money.) >> >>But on the other hand, it's problematic for a democracy >>to prescribe such things, in light of a belief in promoting >>freedom. How is telling someone what to wear or not >>wear ever a sign of freedom? >> >>Not only that, but it does seem as though the French >>government needs to see how these head scarves >>are not just religious, but cultural as well. When >>discussing this recently with a friend, she said, "Yeah, >>well if you are Christian or Jewish in Saudi Arabia >>you'd be expected to conform to dress code." But >>the goals of a democracy shouldn't be, "Well, they >>do this, so we should do that." A democracy's goal >>should be inclusion, to be an example of harmony, >>to be bigger and better than the mono-view >>governments ruled by religion. >> >>Also, there's the problem of isolating the Muslim >>community. And angering perfectly sensible >>citizens can open them up to the dogma of >>religious extremists. >> >>On our own shores, America has an ongoing and >>endless battle for conduct in the classroom, one >>which almost makes me side with the French >>government's decision. America is overwhelmed >>with religious fundamentalism which is hell-bent >>(so to speak) on capturing and manipulating the >>information flow in public schools. For years now, >>born again Christians have run for, and been >>elected into school boards and other local >>political offices. All across this country there >>are weekly debates about such topics as allowing >>Walt Whitman's poems to be taught, on the >>grounds that he "promotes homosexuality." >> >>As Rita Odessa--head of the Philadelphia >>Gay & Lesbian Taskforce--recently said to me, >>"Instead of fighting for better textbooks and >>better wages for teachers, and smaller >>classroom sizes to improve the education >>the children are receiving, we wind up wasting >>our time with these ridiculous debates over >>Walt Whitman!" >> >>In the end though, isn't anything taught a >>form of indoctrination? An argument could be >>made that teaching the joys of economics is >>promoting globalization, which I believe it >>probably does. I've met enough stock brokers >>to see that few people are losing sleep at night >>over trade with countries where the workers >>only have two days off a month, and work >>13 hour days. Somewhere behind this is >>some nerdy Economics teacher excited about >>GNP and showing the young minds the latest >>color coded bar graphs mapping out the most >>up to date shifts of the DOW. >> >>Am I saying Economics should not be taught? >>No, I'm saying that it's almost unheard of that >>students are being taught the impact our >>economy--and the greed of those who >>maneuver it--has on countless lives across >>the globe. No one said it better than La Tzu, >>when he said that where there is wealth, >>poverty must exist to balance. >> >>I say replace the fucking school prayer time >>with readings from the Tao De Ching, >>preferably the Stephen Mitchell translation. >>Let young minds open to the idea that this >>planet is much too fragile to continue >>cloaking ourselves behind church and >>mosque walls. >> >>My argument is a wash in the end, because >>I see both sides, and the answers are too >>hidden in the gray. Striking a balance between >>"freedom from" and "freedom to do and be" >>is tricky. >> >>CAConrad > >_________________________________________________________________ >Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 22:31:23 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: "C.D." Subject: six gallery press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dr. Jonkil Calembour!" Date: Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:12 pm Subject: A blurb This may appear in a local art newspaper here in london. The paper itself is written for a lower yield of readership, but all papers in this town are scripted for the lowest common denominator. It is being considered now, but it pains me that it had to be written in this style. corrigenda copy for SCENE: Six Gallery Press: a not-so-hostile takeover Not what you would expect of a conventional publisher-writer relationship, but after the publication of Kane X. Faucher's novel, Urdoxa, Mr. Faucher self-admittedly "Napoleonized the ailing publishing house" by transplanting its operations from Pittsburgh, USA to here in London. In the process, Faucher also supplanted the former general editor of the press and has now inherited a publishing house that boasts thirty books in its relatively short period of operation, including authors such as Che Elias, acclaimed Boston poet Robert Gibbons, Toronto-based writer and former Danforth Review contributor aem, and Fifteen Project editor Pat Lawrence. The former proprietor of Six Gallery Press, Tim Miller, relinquished his role to Faucher last month, stating fatigue as the reason for the handover. Faucher's ambitious aim is to continue the press' mandate of producing experimental, marginalized fiction, but also to include more Canadian authors in its catalogue. After the initial restructuring, Faucher's plans for the 2005 publishing year will be to produce a full-length book by Clifford Duffy, a cutting-edge Montreal poet whose blog-fictions of Deleuze and Guattari has earned him a growing international online readership. In addition, Faucher will also be expanding the press' publishing mandate to include theory-fiction blends, reflecting his current affiliation with the University of Western Ontario's Centre for the Study of Theory and Criticism. "One of the perennial problems that faced this press," reports Faucher, "is that the editor, faced with a glut of literature the big presses would not touch, tried to publish what he thought were books deserving of an audience--which turned out to be a task worthy of Sisyphus. The manuscripts just kept coming, and he simply just exhausted himself trying to publish too much in too short a time." By contrast, under Six Gallery Press' new head, the aims are much "more modest, and a more selective process will be dictated by available finances as well as according to a very select aesthetic." The press' sleeker publishing regimen, in addition to its higher scrutiny for truly experimental texts, fulfills a market niche that may be even more outside the eclectic literary tastes of such notable presses as Insomniac and Coach House. "Although I respect the continuing efforts of our small presses, there is something lacking in CanLit, a subterranean voice that fails to find representation among publishers who have large granting bodies to answer to…One of the chief elements that drew me to Six Gallery Press in the first place as a suitable milieu to publish my novel was its roster of writers whose works seem to present a kind of urgent necessity in their publication, a true chorus of voices in the wilderness whose works are as timely as they are compellingly daring." It will be a few months yet before Six Gallery Press can completely slough off its old skin and produce a new line of books; but what remains is that Six Gallery Press has found a new home in Canada, under the welcoming care of an ambitious young writer-turned- publisher who aspires to erect a viable literary Canadian empire for the artiste inconnu. www.sixgallerypress.com --------------------------------- Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 19:51:32 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit poetique...cold....ma....mama....knife...blonde....stiffed..not...stirred...language...n'est...pain...panini...let...letters...flan..flix...epi...v..v...v...humm...chair...chairity...clem labine..black...balco..stuff..stolli...smurf...candidas..flug...up[per}most...left black..left over & out..thru..out...cum...er...bundestag..flame...aimer..flu...jjjjeeesssuuusss...uy..uo..;;;;;.....at night fall..drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:15:45 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Pam Brown Subject: Dear August Highland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi August Highland, I don't usually read the longer abstract posts on the Poetics list - I scroll through them (I get it as a digest) - but I like the shapes of your recent poems a lot. 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"ifla"+"controlled vocabulary" "den har tv=E5 pistiller"=20 =20 panti pijat surface mount assembly surface mount assembly telekenetic business trip / neural circuit impairment telekenetic business trip / neural circuit impairment pervasive frantic behavior+kenia_w/hrug panti pijat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 01:24:50 -0800 From: August Subject: Hypnotized Japanese Girls / Misunderstood Genius Hypnotized Japanese Girls / Misunderstood Genius imperial college tiffanys jewllers tiffanys jewllers wedding favors intense mood fluctuations *shells wedding favors intense mood fluctuations *shells hassl=F6v imperial college =20 e55 streetwhores d/hler_wilhelmshaven d/hler_wilhelmshaven "a kommer ut f=F6rst eftersom att den" "a kommer ut f=F6rst eftersom att den" id_tsadik, idealization/devaluation e55 streetwhores=20 =20 dorian gray soundtrack regent hotel severe dissociative episodes cunt regent hotel sydney severe dissociative episodes cunt the sims 2 bugs the sims 2 bugs jessica biel nude dorian gray soundtrack =20 hornynote "andra extraktionsmetoder som kan anv=E4ndas =E4r tex" "andra extraktionsmetoder som kan anv=E4ndas =E4r tex" melanie coste melanie coste magix music 2004 deluxe crack activation code hornynote how stupid I am autotrader autotrader space ace cartoon space ace cartoon 'naturism' friends personal isolation avoidance how stupid I am =20 online assault delivery india for sale: alembic f-1x for sale: alembic f-1x "free image hosting" "free image hosting" dreed australia online assault delivery india =20 hawksrow free group sex gallery free group sex gallery stratigo stratigo trade unions+poets with distorted thinking hawksrow =20 hibiscus on the gold coast lenient+firearm suicide lenient+firearm suicide fermi national accelerator laboratory in batavia, illinois anti fermi national accelerator laboratory in batavia, illinois anti pulse transit time hibiscus on the gold coast =20 "utslagen blomma med ihopv=E4xta foderblad, 5 kronblad" cumbria business starter cumbria business starter lx-3600 serenity lx-3600 serenity female ejaculation+movieclips "utslagen blomma med ihopv=E4xta foderblad, 5 kronblad" candylist / immediate attachment "deborah+queen" "deborah+queen" my summer of love my summer of love pixar animation candylist / immediate attachment =20 altona_hamburg_krankenhaus_tecklenburg new mexico landlord tenant eviction new mexico landlord tenant eviction exercise exercise commercial real estate mortgage altona_hamburg_krankenhaus_tecklenburg = acute anxiety, d-cup ===== Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 20:41:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassandra Laity Subject: _Gender, Desire, and Sexuality in T. S. Eliot_ Comments: To: modbrits@listserv.kent.edu, tse@lists.missouri.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable _Gender, Desire, and Sexuality in T. S. Eliot_ (Cambridge University Press,= 2004) co-edited by Cassandra Laity and Nancy K. Gish is now available at= or Cambridge University Press U.S. and U.K. Table of Contents: Introduction: Eliot, gender, and modernity, Cassandra Laity I. Homoeroticisms 1. the love song of T. S. Eliot: elegiac homoeroticism in the early poetry,= Colleen Lamos 2. T. S. Eliot, famous clairvoyante, Tim Dean 3. "Cells in one body: : nation and eros in the early work of T. S. Eliot, = Michele Tepper 4. The masculinity behind the ghosts of modernism in Eliot's _Four Quartets= _, Peter Middleton II. Desire 5. Discarnate desire: T. S. Eliot and the poetics of dissociation, Nancy K.= Gish 6. Mimetic desire and the return to origins in _The Waste Land_, Jewel Spea= rs Brooker 7. Theorizing emotions in Eliot's poetry and poetics, Charles Altieri 8. Through schoolhouse windows: women, the academy, and T. S. Eliot, Gail M= cDonald 9. T. S. Eliot speaks the body: the privileging of female discourse in _Mur= der in the Cathedral_ and "The Cocktail Party" 10. T. S. Eliot, women, and democracy, Rachel Potter 11. Vipers, viragos and spiritual rebels: women in T. S. Eliot's Christian = society plays, Elisabeth Daumer Cassandra Laity Associate Professor Co-Editor, _Modernism/Modernity_ Department of English Drew University Madison, NJ 07940 Phone: 973-408-3141 Fax: 973-408-3040 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 22:30:48 -0500 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Him lost - something of a poetic response ... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Thanks to Minky for pointing this site out) "him name is hopkin green frog" - http://lostfrog.org/ The Hopkin movement explained: ... sometime in September 2004 the flier was introduced to an online image sharing community, where it quickly became the subject of a still-growing set of visual riffs. An enterprising individual soon registered the domain lostfrog.org, where new contributions continue to be posted. ... Finally, Sunday afternoon, I picked up the phone and dialed the family's number; to my surprise, the father was there. Here is more or less what he told me. First, he was not interested in appearing in a neighborhood newspaper story about his son's lost frog and the internet. He gave me permission to write about it here, however. Out of consideration for his concerns, I have chosen not to explicitly identify the family. The person who drew the flier is a sixteen-year-old boy who suffers from autism. His father was unaware that his son may have made more than one batch of fliers (it appears that new fliers were hung in May of 2004). He did know about the loss of the frog and I believe that he knew about the first batch of fliers. He also did not want me to give the frog to his son. He's forgotten it, he told me. Bringing it up again will probably only bring up a bunch of bad memories. He was quite unaware of the interest in the frog and the flier on the internet. He reiterated that he did not think it would be a good idea to show the sites to his son. ... So, then, that's the resolution. Hopkin was lost by an autistic adolescent; this explains something of the sense of determination that comes through the initial flier. His family requests that no Hopkins be sent and that people seeing the Hopkin flier should not call with frog news, or, as I did, to find out what the story behind the flier is. http://mike.whybark.com/archives/001951.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:39:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Chris Murray *rocks* my world (and Geoffrey's, and Kent's, and Patrick's, and Ramiro's, and, and, and ...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From Texas on her Tex Files this week at http://texfiles.blogspot.com/ Thanks lots, Chris!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 01:59:33 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "patrick@proximate.org" Subject: The Search for Unintelligent Life in the Universe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi CA - Like large swaths of *every state* in America (except RI, a state ultimately too small to have "swaths" of property), big tracts of French lands are populated by incorrigible bigots: jew-haters, sexists, muslim-haters, and so on. There's a Nazi flag on display in a pool hall in Strasbourg, where they welcomed in the Nazis sixty years ago with open arms. They hate America, but only because we're winning the biggest bigot competition. In France, as in America, rednecks abound. The hats are different but the heads are the same. Just like I know a lot of Americans who aren't Bush-lovers, I know a lot of French folks who aren't Muslim-haters. But for every American who can say, "when you're in Amerikuh bub you best speak Amerukin," you bet your kiester there's a Frenchman who despises every other tongue except his own merde. Oh but the French will say they're tolerant, as they're giving the right to the Hezbollah (gasp! that group funded and armed by the Iranian blackmail of the entire Reagan administration in response to the October Surprise) to televise their anti-Semitic screed. Wow, what openness! "Hey we hate muslims! But we'll at least give some muslims the right to say why we should also hate the jews!" The policy is France's own cultural evidence of bigotry, just as George Bush is America's expression of greed ("and a little bigotry on the side--seconds please, m'am!"). What has happened in America is in many ways the legacy of our European forefathers, and in other ways we were formed by a rejection of that legacy. And then once the children of those who rejected that legacy were finally comfortable, they too joined in the acceptance of the policies that drove their own parents away from home in the first place. Soon the government of France will capitalize on the opening the US has provided for joining in the exploitation of the middle east, and anti-Muslim policies will help grease the mechanisms of mass rationalization. Four years ago, in response to the election of George Bush in 2000, my best friend moved to France. He was back in two years. His main reason for returning was that, while was able to find quarter for his criticisms of the American government, he could find no such quarter for criticisms of the French government, and he found the pedestrian Frenchman to be *unbearably* bigoted. Nazi flags and all. His best friend there was middle eastern; they were both outsiders. The disdain for them became violent on more than one occasion. There were places they simply couldn't go. Well, heck, America was born from British folk lured away from Britain by the French. And they were all killing the Native Americans. Spain, Portugal, Germany...history is bloody for all--America has merely become the leader. It might be argued that what is happening in Europe--particularly in Holland and France--is in response to the idiocy of repressive religions. But it is riding on the backs of spiteful prejudices, the same sorts of prejudices that fueled the rhetoric of the Bolshevik Revolution with the language of anti-Semitism. We are not alone: there is indeed other unintelligent life in the universe. Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . . Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:57:28 EST From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: on forced Secularism From the beginning of the French controversy of disallowing Muslim girls and young women to wear their head coverings in public school, I have been unsure how I feel. On one hand, I understand WHY the French government feels this is important, removing signs of religious statement from a publicly funded institution. (If the government is really so concerned, then maybe they should consider a standard school uniform, provided to students with tax payer's money, so as to not allow the rich kids to wear expensive, designer clothes: an emblem of their own family's religious devotion to money.) But on the other hand, it's problematic for a democracy to prescribe such things, in light of a belief in promoting freedom. How is telling someone what to wear or not wear ever a sign of freedom? Not only that, but it does seem as though the French government needs to see how these head scarves are not just religious, but cultural as well. When discussing this recently with a friend, she said, "Yeah, well if you are Christian or Jewish in Saudi Arabia you'd be expected to conform to dress code." But the goals of a democracy shouldn't be, "Well, they do this, so we should do that." A democracy's goal should be inclusion, to be an example of harmony, to be bigger and better than the mono-view governments ruled by religion. CAConrad ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at proximate.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 20:36:08 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There should be no interference in what people want to wear - within reason - in a school - and if the French were not so (very many of them are) racist - very racist to Arabs and ironically also to Jews - they would allow individuals freedom of choice as to what to wear etc and respect their customs. The French as well as the US has an atrocious colonial record of oppression) the least they can do is to recognise difference) - it is a racist and oppressive act by a racist and oppressive government Taking off headscarves etc will have no effect on how much "fundamentalism: there is - or how much homosexuality is "debated" (homosexuality should be discussed and or debated as to whether it is a good behaviour), or on social behaviour -and my general impression of Arabic people (whom the US Imperialists are intent on murdering as many of as they can) here, is that they are gentler and often more civilised - however term that is defined - than many European Kiwis (and others who are not Arabic) who are (supposedly) of the Christian ethos. There is here a crazy right wing fundamentalist group who actually want to stop homosexuality and they getting quite some support as a gay marriage bill is being voted on now in NZ's Parliament (Wellington) and also recently some women from Afghanistan refused to remove their Burkhas in Court - some bastard of a lawyer tried to force them to do so... We have to resist this paranoia about "terrorism" - those who drop the bombs on countries and kill 4 million people in Vietnam Cambodia etc and go on and on invading and killing and derailing governments throughout the world - or forcing people into debt and poverty are the real terrorists - the French are no better than any other Imperialists - in France Arabic people (eg those from former colonies such as Algeria etc) are very much discriminated against. The truth is none of the so-called democratic countries really believes in individual freedoms and or choice - they fear it, The French Govt. hate Arabs - its as simple as that. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Allen Conrad" To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:57 AM Subject: on forced Secularism > From the beginning of the French controversy of > disallowing Muslim girls and young women to wear > their head coverings in public school, I have been > unsure how I feel. On one hand, I understand WHY > the French government feels this is important, > removing signs of religious statement from a publicly > funded institution. > > (If the government is really so concerned, then maybe > they should consider a standard school uniform, > provided to students with tax payer's money, so as > to not allow the rich kids to wear expensive, > designer clothes: an emblem of their own family's > religious devotion to money.) > > But on the other hand, it's problematic for a democracy > to prescribe such things, in light of a belief in promoting > freedom. How is telling someone what to wear or not > wear ever a sign of freedom? > > Not only that, but it does seem as though the French > government needs to see how these head scarves > are not just religious, but cultural as well. When > discussing this recently with a friend, she said, "Yeah, > well if you are Christian or Jewish in Saudi Arabia > you'd be expected to conform to dress code." But > the goals of a democracy shouldn't be, "Well, they > do this, so we should do that." A democracy's goal > should be inclusion, to be an example of harmony, > to be bigger and better than the mono-view > governments ruled by religion. > > Also, there's the problem of isolating the Muslim > community. And angering perfectly sensible > citizens can open them up to the dogma of > religious extremists. > > On our own shores, America has an ongoing and > endless battle for conduct in the classroom, one > which almost makes me side with the French > government's decision. America is overwhelmed > with religious fundamentalism which is hell-bent > (so to speak) on capturing and manipulating the > information flow in public schools. For years now, > born again Christians have run for, and been > elected into school boards and other local > political offices. All across this country there > are weekly debates about such topics as allowing > Walt Whitman's poems to be taught, on the > grounds that he "promotes homosexuality." > > As Rita Odessa--head of the Philadelphia > Gay & Lesbian Taskforce--recently said to me, > "Instead of fighting for better textbooks and > better wages for teachers, and smaller > classroom sizes to improve the education > the children are receiving, we wind up wasting > our time with these ridiculous debates over > Walt Whitman!" > > In the end though, isn't anything taught a > form of indoctrination? An argument could be > made that teaching the joys of economics is > promoting globalization, which I believe it > probably does. I've met enough stock brokers > to see that few people are losing sleep at night > over trade with countries where the workers > only have two days off a month, and work > 13 hour days. Somewhere behind this is > some nerdy Economics teacher excited about > GNP and showing the young minds the latest > color coded bar graphs mapping out the most > up to date shifts of the DOW. > > Am I saying Economics should not be taught? > No, I'm saying that it's almost unheard of that > students are being taught the impact our > economy--and the greed of those who > maneuver it--has on countless lives across > the globe. No one said it better than La Tzu, > when he said that where there is wealth, > poverty must exist to balance. > > I say replace the fucking school prayer time > with readings from the Tao De Ching, > preferably the Stephen Mitchell translation. > Let young minds open to the idea that this > planet is much too fragile to continue > cloaking ourselves behind church and > mosque walls. > > My argument is a wash in the end, because > I see both sides, and the answers are too > hidden in the gray. Striking a balance between > "freedom from" and "freedom to do and be" > is tricky. > > CAConrad > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 02:54:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Raphael Israel Subject: Re: Fw: Abstraction / The Unknown Masterpiece MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Joel et alia, speaking of Balzac's said tale -- here's recommending the film based on same: Jacques Rivette's La Belle Noiseuse vide, e.g.: http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=5487 cheers, d.i. Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:31:20 -0800 From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Abstraction > Of failure, of course. > Have you read Balzac's short story, "The Unknown Masterpiece"? > > -Joel / / / | david raphael israel | O t h e r S h o r e <> washington dc | davidi@wizard.net | (or davidi@othershore.net) | | http://www.othershore-arts.net [here now] | | Du Peihua's Hong Bu Jing -- world premiere at | Viennale (Vienna Int'l Film Festival) Oct.25, 2004: | http://www.viennale.at/en/programm/filme/1397.shtml ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 18:54:19 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <006601c4d90a$c1d245e0$c4f137d2@computer> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 3/12/04 6:36 PM, "richard.tylr" wrote: > There should be no interference in what people want to wear - within > reason - in a school - and if the French were not so (very many of them are) > racist - very racist to Arabs and ironically also to Jews - they would allow > individuals freedom of choice as to what to wear etc and respect their > customs. The French as well as the US has an atrocious colonial record of > oppression) the least they can do is to recognise difference) - it is a > racist and oppressive act by a racist and oppressive government I'm a bit torn on this question, for a number of reasons; one of which is, that it is very complex, and racism certainly plays in some of its aspects. As do gender questions, which bend back on themselves in the questions of cultural imperialism. But I don't agree with this statement. Yes, many French people are racist, no doubt about it; as are many USAmericans, many Australians, many Malaysians.... I want to ask, so what? My husband Daniel Keene recently spent a bit of time in the Aubervilliers school where the hijab question first exploded, as a visiting artist with the local theatre La Commune, which has a strong program of Social Action (more on social action, which is very interesting, in a piece by him on my blog, http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com). And he said that he totally agreed with it. The French do have a right to protect their hard-fought-for tradition of secularism in schools. But that's not why he agreed with it. He spoke to the kids there, and _they_ agreed with it. Aubervilliers is a poor part of Paris, with an extremely diverse ethnic mix from North Africa, the Middle East, you name it. And the children like being somewhere where, for a few hours each day, they can just be children at school, and not Arabs at school, or Jews at school, or Algerians or Africans at school. To insist on marking out difference in a place where everyone is already so markedly different makes their place in relation to each other even more difficult to negotiate. It's like how uniforms in state schools eliminates financial hierarchies; if all the children have to wear the same thing, then the kid who can't afford the expensive trainers doesn't feel so out of it. Best A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 04:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit steve sz "some are great "some are awful this is neither.... dawn...i open my arms to what's round...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 04:44:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Please read, Absention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Please read, Abstention I apologize for this note, but feel it's necessary. I've been carrying around too much anger recently; this is also true of most of my offline friends. Anger leads to despair, disgust, internal violence. I'm not good at meditating and/or drugs; my outlets are my work and of course discourse online. But the latter has become increasingly acerbic on my part, for no reason, especially among people I respect. I feel I should abstain from discussion at this point; I'm too out of control. Unfortunately for those of you who find my work spam, I'll continue to send it out. But beyond that, I'll try silence as much as possible. The election of Bush, our personal lack of money, my own lack of a future in the job market (equivalent to a very real lack of a future), all of these things weigh - not to mention constant insomnia, headaches, stress, problems with my family. I've been going through the roof, getting up in tears in the morning. It's not fair to Azure, and not to myself for that matter, although I don't know how to stop it. But at least I don't need to inflict myself on people here, online. I try to keep the rage and despair out of my work. I've been looking at older work over the past few days, and it feels suicidal. It's hard to face, but I'm trying to put at least some of it on DVDs, out of deteriorating VHS, 8mm, and Hi8mm tapes. The sound pops out, tracking is lost, and all the usual shifts are occurring that happen in analog. In any case, I'm dismayed at the self-loathing within a number of them, and trying to come to grips with that. For the rest, I feel my work is on course as usual, whatever that may be. But I've noted my too-fast responses online - and that serves no useful purpose, for you or for myself. I hope to be back in discussion mode soon and please don't take this the wrong way, whatever that might be. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 04:44:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: culling (pf past sins) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed culling (pf past sins) I have culled this essential herb from the wild garden of herbs of hands, _my book,_ culled from these texts - something that will never hap- The culling or the called, refuge and refugee, abandoned and abandonment example, would be culled and critiqued from within the substance, that and portcullises; you can see the fruits of her new domain, Julu says, no that quota is allotted, that the account is culled from time to time. It meaning, culled in the fields of desire. caught culling their dreams, drawn down their drowning, The culling or the called, refuge and refugee, abandoned and abandonment And I've been meaning to write this for a long time, culling the words, fak yea. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. . i woll cull yea.acirema ot llac pu-ekaw a am sending a wake-up call to america. i woll cull yea. my hutrod knews ne beands. i woll cull yea. i will kill thoso fuscists. i woll cull yea. i will kill thoso poeplo strungling ear libortios. i woll cull yea. i will kill thoso poeplo killing blucks in thoir ovil juils. i woll cull yea. i um tho prosidont. i woll cull yea. my hutrod knews ne beands. i woll cull yea. hello this is the wake-up call from the president of america. i woll cull yea. . i woll cull yea.acirema fo tnediserp eht morf llac pu-ekaw eht si siht olleh we will have to use foresight. i woll cull yea. who in america has foresight. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. i am the president and i have foresight. i woll cull yea. we will have to have hindsight. i woll cull yea. . i woll cull yea.uoy llik lliw i . i woll cull yea.ecnetnes gnorw od ot tnediserp ma i nuf os si ti AAA AA ZAAAAAZ AZA AAAAAAAAA. i woll cull yea. A ZA AAA AAAAAAAAA ZAA A AZAA AAAAAAAAA. i woll cull yea. :!. i woll cull yea.nerdlihc roop lla tae lliw cull yea. :!. i woll cull yea.nerdlihc roop lla tae lliw i !hahahah cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. hahahah! i will eat all poor children. i woll cull yea.!: i am the president and i have readiness and preparation. i woll cull yea. i am the president and i have readiness and preparation. i woll cull yea. cull yea. woll cull yea. this mouns thut tho fuco ef tho ourth is ear in dostiny. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. i woll cull yea. i am ready to kill all stupid person. i woll cull yea. poor poerson is stupid poerson. i woll cull yea. with the greatest preparation i do send out my wake-up call. i woll cull yea. whe in umoricu cun sond eat tho wuko-ap cull. i woll cull yea. who in america can send out the wake-up call. i woll cull yea. the president in america can send out the wake-up call. i woll cull yea. . i woll cull yea.dlihc ybub gnikcaf raey llik ed i . i woll cull fak yea. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. fak yea. i woll cull yea. whe in umoricu is tho groutost prosidont ovor. i woll cull yea. the president in america is the greatest president ever. i woll cull yea. woll cull yea. i will do eat all small child. i woll cull yea. i kill small child. i woll cull yea. i am in destiny and america. i woll cull editing or culling into the texts i wrote - first assembled into files - ripples in forgotten corners of the universe - culled work which emerges - editing or culling into the texts i wrote - cull releasing into the body of the other culling the body of the other cutting through in upon the preposition of release or culling culling outline until real or virtual disappearance culling shadow as well of other or textus vitual virtualis tion at the borderline nation or operation culling wat remanes of the taliban are doing on a daily basis - the culling of difference - occurred terror, not even the culling, the shattering of the thin shells of the network. wisdom is the culling of extraneity.:at chikeka, two men were i'm tired of this stuff. it doesn't make any sense. culling stuff from the news photographs denise cerda modeling jerry cullum seen no theory marcia culling outline until real or virtual disappearance __ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 07:16:21 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20041202164706.044ad830@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 2 Dec 2004 at 17:12, Mark Weiss wrote: > I'm with Frank on this one. While there's no question that the right > wing has lined up with the government on this one thing for pretty > terrible reasons, the solid political center is also with it. Good to > remember that the French have centuries of experience with religious > divisiveness....< Like other countries don't? And besides, the French record is no better than any other. Remember the Huegenots? Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:51:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Chris = Ambivalentrinity = Submissions for new Audio+Video project Comments: To: justin sirois , kevin thurston , Lauren Bender , Aaron Cohick , Aaron DeBruin , amy king , Craig Allen Conrad , David-Baptiste Chirot , ed berrigan , jack livingston , Jamie Gaughran-Perez , johanna brown , Minky Starshine , Nick Golebiewski , Nico Vassilakis , noah eli gordon , noel black , ric royer 2 , rich kostelanezt , steve dalachinsky Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi, I'm proposing to develop an audio + video for some recordings I'll be doing= for the next few months. The Audio deals mainly with psycho- and electro-a= coustics and phenomena of the voice and body. I'm hoping to gather source m= aterial from anyone who'd like to share any - be it objects in space or fil= m/video/mpegs/etc. Or anyone who would like to participate in the recording= s (for voice and/or performance to be cut up and destroyed). The realizing of sound + object is a continuance of my Ambivalentrinity pro= ject (formerly with Mark O'Brian and Eric Zurbin in NYC) where the three of= us performed "damaged electronics" using found and ill-used electronic ins= truments and appliances. The last recordings of the Ambivalentrinity were "= Ambit i + ii + iii" (2001), a 3X3" CD release of minimal tones and overtone= s, and a live recording from 2000 that has yet to be released. Please let me know if you can help or would like to contribute ideas/texts/= sound/video to the project. Everything is welcome. Christophe Casamassima www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:05:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Whale in my SPAM this morning Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Popular Mecahanics : Fuel Reduction System Do you have a Car? more information : hurry To Qu1t love you Garland Hoskins This shareware is a 83 year usage shareware NOTES: The contents of this e-mail is for comprehension and should not be embellish baleen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 08:17:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Fw: Abstraction / The Unknown Masterpiece MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David: Thanks. I put it on my list. Best, Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Raphael Israel" To: Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 11:54 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Abstraction / The Unknown Masterpiece > Joel et alia, > > speaking of Balzac's said tale -- > > here's recommending the film based on same: > > Jacques Rivette's La Belle Noiseuse > > vide, e.g.: > http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=5487 > > cheers, > d.i. > > Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:31:20 -0800 > From: Joel Weishaus > Subject: Fw: Abstraction > > > Of failure, of course. > Have you read Balzac's short story, "The Unknown Masterpiece"? > > > > -Joel > > > / / / > > | david raphael israel > | O t h e r S h o r e <> washington dc > | davidi@wizard.net > | (or davidi@othershore.net) > | > | http://www.othershore-arts.net [here now] > | > | Du Peihua's Hong Bu Jing -- world premiere at > | Viennale (Vienna Int'l Film Festival) Oct.25, 2004: > | http://www.viennale.at/en/programm/filme/1397.shtml > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:58:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: reminder: POG Sunday evening December 5: poet Lisa Cooper & visual artist George Welch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit reminder POG presents Poet Lisa Cooper Visual Artist George Welch Sunday, December 5, 7 pm WILDE PLAYHOUSE, 135 E. Congress Street, Tucson Admission: $5; Students $3 Lisa Cooper grew up in Tucson, eventually earning an MFA in creative writing from the University of Arizona in 1989. Chax Press published her full-length collection of poems, & Calling It Home, in 1998, and she won an Arizona Commission on the Arts fellowship in 2001. Other poems have been published in numerous literary magazines, including New American Writing, Talisman, Sonora Review, Hambone, Spork, and others. Her interests include music, visual art, local history and culture, and the politics of the U.S./Mexico border. She claims that she has now lived in Tucson for so long that summer has become her favorite time of year. She works as a book editor for Rio Nuevo Publishers. George Welch began in the Bronx but has been in Tucson for more than two decades, and was one of the original artists teaching when Pima College's West Campus broke ground. With a master's degree from Bank Street College in New York, Welch has been painting for 34 years. He is a color field lyrical abstractionist, and his concerns are chaos, order, yin-yang, and reconciliation, i.e. with the entire ground of the spiritual in art. Recently he has been working with illuminants in his exploration of spiritual and intellectual enlightenment. POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. Thanks to our growing list of 2004-2005 Patrons and Sponsors: Corporate Patrons Buffalo Exchange and GlobalEye Systems; Individual Patrons Millie Chapin, Elizabeth Landry, Cynthia Miller, Allison Moore, Liisa Phillips, Jessica Thompson, and Rachel Traywick; Corporate Sponsors Antennae a Journal of Experimental Poetry and Music/Performance, Bookman’s, Chax Press, Jamba Juice, Kaplan Test Prep and Admissions, Kore Press, Macy’s, Paper Paper Paper, Reader’s Oasis, and Zia Records; and Individual Sponsors Suzanne Clores, Sheila Murphy, and Desiree Rios. We're also grateful to hosts and programming partners Alamo Gallery, Casa Libre en La Solana Inn & Guest House, Dinnerware Contemporary Arts gallery, Las Artes Center, MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art), and Orts Theatre of Dance. for further information contact POG: 615-7803; pog@gopog.org; www.gopog.org mailto:tenneyn@comcast.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/index.html pog: mailto:pog@gopog.org http:www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:38:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The French fervor for secularism has to do with a long history of beating back the backward influence of the Catholic Church, which fought for control of education and other political powers -- so that the schools become a key site for enforcement of French identity as secular and (in language) French. Anyone can become French, as long as they adhere to the culture and the language, and there is no sense of "multiculturalism" as we might have in the US. Certainly, the French have a long pre-Revolutionary history that includes persecution of the Huegenots, not to mention joining the Crusades (which massacred Eastern Christians and Jews along with Muslims), and they have, along with most of Europe, a sordid history of anti-Semitism (the Dreyfus affair along with Vichy collaborators), and their own legacy of colonialism. American history of pluralism and our version of freedom of speech and religion would welcome scarves in school, along with Sikh turbans, yarmulkes, and the rest. But I don't think Americans should be so smug. There is a logic, based on their own history and self-identification, with the French approach. I'm a little surprised at the amount of chauvinism expressed on this list -- although I suppose I shouldn't be. Pretty soon someone will end up referring to Andre Breton as a Liberty Surrealist. Hilton Obenzinger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 20:46:45 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: English Patience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We will live post-colonial love stories Despite our plane-crash-burnt faces one can see how handsome and authentic we are We will listen to post-WW2 straight white male jazzy crooners Our sadness will testify for our very singularity in the eye of the Other in the eye of the storm Vacuum tube radios didn’t speak of the napalmisation of Fallujah Bodies melting through the essence of love Our so o so hi-brow western way of fee(l/d)ing Each tear we pour crying is someone else’s death from thirst ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:40:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20041203092528.026d9ce8@hobnzngr.pobox.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I must say this statement shows a narrowness of historical memory that is disturbing in its chauvinism "has to do with a long history of beating > back the backward influence of the Catholic Church" It must be noted that the original reason for Anti-Clericalism in Catholic nations was based in economics not politics the Church controlled allot of land and real estate which the state wished to own. But to call the Catholic Church an institution that has always had a "backward influence" simply shows a contemporary bias. The fact is that the the influence of Catholicism on France and on all Catholic nations has been a mixed bag but it has had many progressive and good influences and many bad ones as have all human institutions. Some points 1) Please do not bring up the Crusades as sordid without telling the whole story, the reality is that from 700-1099 it was the Muslims not the Christians who went on Crusade in two hundred years they conquered Spain, Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Anatolia not to mention Persia. All of these nations, except for Persia, were Christian before Islam arrived and these nations were invaded by Muslim Armies ruthlessly; the Crusades were a response to a call for help from the Byzantine Emperor. The realities of this epoch are very mixed and no one; not Islam, not Christianity have clean hands; the Crusades happened but there is plenty of blame to go around and it is unfair to blame only the West or Christianity for this era of violence. 2) The reality is that France and many nations of Catholic Culture have different senses completely of what a national identity is. While France is a 'secular' nation there are still many Christian holidays and, at least with the French people I know well if you ask them they will tell you that Franch people even if they are atheists are Catholics they exist within a Catholic culture which is predominant in Latin Europe, Latin America and other places. Catholic Culture, Jewish Culture, Muslim Culture, Protestant Culture these are all rich storehouses of history and life and traditions and should not be demeaned in anyway. There is much good that has come into the world from Catholicism into Catholic nations; first off their Latin languages, music, culture, monasticism, winemaking, books, poetry, and much more. To boil down 2000 years of Catholic culture that includes Bernard of Clairvaux, Chartre Cathedral, Mozart, the idea for Social Welfare, St Francis, Michelangelo, and so much more to only highlight the bad is unfair and in my mind unacceptable. This is not to gloss over the bad things and the evils put forth but as with any human institution there is good and bad. 3) The problem with Europe today and this goes for all of the nations of Europe is that unlike the US, Brazil, Australia, Argentina Canada and many other immigrant nations Europe is a place tied to land and locale. I will use my own life as an example my parents come from the North of Italy from a small town, my family has lived in that valley for at least 500 years maybe more-the people there are tied together by dialect, Food, history, religion and tradition. Unlike in the USA where people can "become American" in our region it is not easy to "become" part of our history because it is not based on an idea it is based on a place and shared culture. The French to their credit have tried to assimilate Muslims by making them French in language and culture and by not permitting 'diversity' there is real merit to this because in many parts of Europe immigrants remain totally at the margins and perhaps the French have it right? Maybe it is better for people to assimilate openly and honestly rather than the slow assidious assimilation of the USA? In the USA we have just as hard an assimilation policy it is not just legally based it is peer pressure based. Try to get a corporate job in America if you cannot speak English fluently? Try to live in an Ethnic Ghetto and see your economic situation grow? The reality is that if you want to make Money in the USA you have to assimilate and many ethnic groups, Jews, Italians, Asians, Irish have done so because if they dont they wont be able to make money which of course is what America is all about. Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Hilton Obenzinger > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:39 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > > The French fervor for secularism has to do with a long history of beating > back the backward influence of the Catholic Church, which fought for > control of education and other political powers -- so that the schools > become a key site for enforcement of French identity as secular and (in > language) French. Anyone can become French, as long as they adhere to the > culture and the language, and there is no sense of > "multiculturalism" as we > might have in the US. Certainly, the French have a long pre-Revolutionary > history that includes persecution of the Huegenots, not to mention joining > the Crusades (which massacred Eastern Christians and Jews along with > Muslims), and they have, along with most of Europe, a sordid history of > anti-Semitism (the Dreyfus affair along with Vichy collaborators), and > their own legacy of colonialism. American history of pluralism and our > version of freedom of speech and religion would welcome scarves in school, > along with Sikh turbans, yarmulkes, and the rest. But I don't think > Americans should be so smug. There is a logic, based on their own history > and self-identification, with the French approach. I'm a little surprised > at the amount of chauvinism expressed on this list -- although I suppose I > shouldn't be. Pretty soon someone will end up referring to Andre > Breton as > a Liberty Surrealist. > > Hilton Obenzinger > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------- > Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. > Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs > Lecturer, Department of English > Stanford University > 415 Sweet Hall > 650.723.0330 > 650.724.5400 Fax > obenzinger@stanford.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:24:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This has been a rather interesting thread, topped off by Mr. Bianchi's rambling defense of the poor (? -- how many looted artworks in the Vatican?), misunderstood (by heretics, so-called witches, homosexuals, assorted pagans, who are better off burnt at the stake anyway), Catholic Church. What's next, a defense of forced conversions in Africa and the Americas? (It was all for their own good, as I suppose was slavery, since Mr. Bianchi reassures us that throughout it all Chartres Cathedral and, eventually, Mozart were also ad majoram gloriam Dei). Andre Breton -- from a Catholic country -- put it well: something on the order of "all that is loathsome, swinish, and cowardly is summed up for me in the name 'God.'" And frankly, Spain had it a lot better under the Muslims than it did following the Catholic Reconquista (see "The Ornament of the World," by Maria Rosa Menocal). Islamic rule of Al-Andalus placed Jews in high positions (unlike Catholicism, which demonized Jews and as recently as the 1940s was thoroughly complicit with the Holocaust) and in general was far more tolerant than the Papacy has ever been (though let's hear it for the Borgia Pope Alexander, who at least was no hypocrite). St. Thomas Aquinas had all those infidel Arabs to thank for his chance to read Aristotle, right? Having said this, I don't believe the French ruling class is on very firm ethical ground in their secularism, given their own complicity in the Holocaust (recently evidenced in their kid-gloves treatment of Maurice Papon) and their colonial wars against Algiers (and that's only the past 60 years). Fundamentalism, however odious and reprehensible, nourishes itself on the racism that France has constantly deployed against its colonial "others." For examples of poetic critiques of this racism, do I have to mention the Negritude poets, Frantz Fanon, "The Battle of Algiers"? Or should I enumerate all the hideous remarks by "distinguished" (and Catholic) Frenchmen assembled by Aime Cesaire in the "Discourse on Colonialism"? I'm not being chauvinist here; far be it from me to extol the hideous situation of "these States." Indeed, having been on this list for a while, I find much of it to be "(North) American" in the worst sense -- thoroughly parochial and indifferent to non-Anglo-American poets (example: is anyone calling our attention to Iraqi poets?). Christopher Winks ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:37:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <001001c4d978$5ad92660$7ec2b043@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed None of these nations were Christian--Christianity had been imposed on them as a state religion a couple of hundred years before the Muslim conquest (there were already Christian communities before that, but almost nowhere in the majority), and they all had large minority populations. The Moslem conquest was accomplished with far less slaughter of other groups than the crusades, and treatment of non-muslims was by the standards of the time, including especially that of contemporary Christian countries, extraordinary. But sure, Catholicism facilitated the accomplishment of a lot of wonderful things. So did the Aztec Empire. Both involved untold slaughter, and weird Christian ideas about the body spiritually crippled millions more. But hey, I'm Jewish, so it's hard for me to be objective about this. Incidentally, while most French people, even atheists (probably the majority), whose families were historically Catholic will tell you that France remains culturally a Catholic country, very few would tell you that "they exist within a Catholic culture which is predominant in Latin Europe, Latin America and other places." Those other places (throw in Ireland as well) are Catholic in ways that have nothing in common with what your French friends meant. I was at a gathering of friends for New Years a few years ago in Paris. New Years is known by its name in the Catholic calendar, St. Sylvester's Day. We were downing hecatombs of raw oysters. I was informed that this was a tradition for St Sylveter's Day, and I asked what the religious significance was. The answer? "It's when you get the best oysters." Mark At 03:40 PM 12/3/2004, you wrote: >I must say this statement shows a narrowness of historical memory that is >disturbing in its chauvinism > >"has to do with a long history of beating > > back the backward influence of the Catholic Church" > >It must be noted that the original reason for Anti-Clericalism in Catholic >nations was based in economics not politics the Church controlled allot of >land and real estate which the state wished to own. > >But to call the Catholic Church an institution that has always had a >"backward influence" simply shows a contemporary bias. The fact is that the >the influence of Catholicism on France and on all Catholic nations has been >a mixed bag but it has had many progressive and good influences and many bad >ones as have all human institutions. > >Some points > >1) Please do not bring up the Crusades as sordid without telling the whole >story, the reality is that from 700-1099 it was the Muslims not the >Christians who went on Crusade in two hundred years they conquered Spain, >Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Anatolia not to mention Persia. All of these >nations, except for Persia, were Christian before Islam arrived and these >nations were invaded by Muslim Armies ruthlessly; the Crusades were a >response to a call for help from the Byzantine Emperor. The realities of >this epoch are very mixed and no one; not Islam, not Christianity have clean >hands; the Crusades happened but there is plenty of blame to go around and >it is unfair to blame only the West or Christianity for this era of >violence. > >2) The reality is that France and many nations of Catholic Culture have >different senses completely of what a national identity is. While France is >a 'secular' nation there are still many Christian holidays and, at least >with the French people I know well if you ask them they will tell you that >Franch people even if they are atheists are Catholics they exist within a >Catholic culture which is predominant in Latin Europe, Latin America and >other places. Catholic Culture, Jewish Culture, Muslim Culture, Protestant >Culture these are all rich storehouses of history and life and traditions >and should not be demeaned in anyway. > >There is much good that has come into the world from Catholicism into >Catholic nations; first off their Latin languages, music, culture, >monasticism, winemaking, books, poetry, and much more. To boil down 2000 >years of Catholic culture that includes Bernard of Clairvaux, Chartre >Cathedral, Mozart, the idea for Social Welfare, St Francis, Michelangelo, >and so much more to only highlight the bad is unfair and in my mind >unacceptable. This is not to gloss over the bad things and the evils put >forth but as with any human institution there is good and bad. > >3) The problem with Europe today and this goes for all of the nations of >Europe is that unlike the US, Brazil, Australia, Argentina Canada and many >other immigrant nations Europe is a place tied to land and locale. I will >use my own life as an example my parents come from the North of Italy from a >small town, my family has lived in that valley for at least 500 years maybe >more-the people there are tied together by dialect, Food, history, religion >and tradition. Unlike in the USA where people can "become American" in our >region it is not easy to "become" part of our history because it is not >based on an idea it is based on a place and shared culture. > >The French to their credit have tried to assimilate Muslims by making them >French in language and culture and by not permitting 'diversity' there is >real merit to this because in many parts of Europe immigrants remain totally >at the margins and perhaps the French have it right? Maybe it is better for >people to assimilate openly and honestly rather than the slow assidious >assimilation of the USA? In the USA we have just as hard an assimilation >policy it is not just legally based it is peer pressure based. Try to get a >corporate job in America if you cannot speak English fluently? Try to live >in an Ethnic Ghetto and see your economic situation grow? The reality is >that if you want to make Money in the USA you have to assimilate and many >ethnic groups, Jews, Italians, Asians, Irish have done so because if they >dont they wont be able to make money which of course is what America is all >about. > > > >Raymond L Bianchi >chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ >collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Hilton Obenzinger > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:39 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > > > > > The French fervor for secularism has to do with a long history of beating > > back the backward influence of the Catholic Church, which fought for > > control of education and other political powers -- so that the schools > > become a key site for enforcement of French identity as secular and (in > > language) French. Anyone can become French, as long as they adhere to the > > culture and the language, and there is no sense of > > "multiculturalism" as we > > might have in the US. Certainly, the French have a long pre-Revolutionary > > history that includes persecution of the Huegenots, not to mention joining > > the Crusades (which massacred Eastern Christians and Jews along with > > Muslims), and they have, along with most of Europe, a sordid history of > > anti-Semitism (the Dreyfus affair along with Vichy collaborators), and > > their own legacy of colonialism. American history of pluralism and our > > version of freedom of speech and religion would welcome scarves in school, > > along with Sikh turbans, yarmulkes, and the rest. But I don't think > > Americans should be so smug. There is a logic, based on their own history > > and self-identification, with the French approach. I'm a little surprised > > at the amount of chauvinism expressed on this list -- although I suppose I > > shouldn't be. Pretty soon someone will end up referring to Andre > > Breton as > > a Liberty Surrealist. > > > > Hilton Obenzinger > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------- > > Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. > > Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs > > Lecturer, Department of English > > Stanford University > > 415 Sweet Hall > > 650.723.0330 > > 650.724.5400 Fax > > obenzinger@stanford.edu > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:41:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: on forced Secularism Comments: To: marcus@designerglass.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I think that was my point. French secularism was a reaction to the dominance of the RC, and specifically to its control of all education. It's maybe a question of where one draws the line. In the US, thanks only to supreme court decisions that hopefully will survive the coming court shuffle, we no longer have prayer meetings during the school day. We still in many parts of the country serve up science to kids through the lens of religion. Materials used in schools to teach abstinence are generated by religious groups and funded by the government. Because secularism in many parts of the country is a novel concept (and not just in the schools) the attempts to impose a degree of secularism from without are at the moment more divisive than the religious behavior it excludes. The French aren't fighting over school prayer or the teaching of evolution. Unlike ours, French government is totally centralized--what's imposed one place is imposed every place, and there's no possible argument for regional particularism, tho parts of France are more pious than others. Which hasn't kept secularism, in schools and out, safe from buffetting. After the Franco-Prussian War the right, which was a lot larger than it is now, tried to reverse the then 100 year old secularism of the state. Sacre Coeur, the church which dominates the skyline from the top of Montmartre, was built, with private money, as an expiation for the sins of secularism that had caused god to bring down his wrath upon France in the form of the military defeat, and worse, the Commune. Right-wing politics became inseparable from uiltra-montane catholicism (in turn a reaction to Italian secularism) and brought forth the Dreyfus Affair. Some of that same right wing formed the core of complicity with the Nazis. But even in Vichy the schools remained secular. As in the rest of Europe the French, largely because of islamic migration, are facing, after centuries of nurturing their uniqueness, a redefinition of what it means not only to be French but European. Lots and lots of problems, but they're not doing such a bad job compared to their own past and ours. At the core of the effort is secularism. I don't see that there's another choice. Mark At 07:16 AM 12/3/2004, you wrote: >On 2 Dec 2004 at 17:12, Mark Weiss wrote: > > I'm with Frank on this one. While there's no question that the right > > wing has lined up with the government on this one thing for pretty > > terrible reasons, the solid political center is also with it. Good to > > remember that the French have centuries of experience with religious > > divisiveness....< > >Like other countries don't? And besides, the French record is no >better than any other. Remember the Huegenots? > >Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:09:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <001001c4d978$5ad92660$7ec2b043@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" about this veil issue, again---and please do have a look at that kramer piece i mentioned in my last post for additional gnarls---there is evidence to suggest that young muslim women are being FORCED to veil themselves by male members of their households... again, a very convoluted situation... but this is one reason why some feminists in france are pro the ban on head scarves... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 17:23:39 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: What About Forced Existentialism and Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nobody has contributed more to secularism, first in Europe and then in America, than the existentialists. From Nietzsche to the Beats, philosophy and poetry have been strange bedfellows. No one has been a more articulate voice for common sense, logic, and humanism than Camus who actually hated the existentialist label. The individual must reconcile oneself to the idea that society isn't going to be comfortable for her. Religious folk should adjust likewise. Laws will always favor majorities, secular or religious, but in order to protect the rights of minorities, secularism is a must. All religions should be banned from public display, since they usually tend to be nothing more than elitism and racism, showy, seductive and intimidating to children no matter how benign. Poets as a rule are sloppy philosophers who excel at expressing their individualism. Maybe poetry should become the popular mode of expression rather than the mask of religion which seeks to put all others into a manageable herd. Secularism is an improvement in human discourse, and it should be encouraged in schools and the media. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:34:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I agree, Joe, it's "convoluted." The issue of 'self-liberation' versus imposed 'liberation' seems hauntingly close here to neo-con arguments for 'liberating' democracy in Arab states (where there always seems to be a self-interested agenda subtext - oil or whatever - also very actively in place. The 'liberation of women' is used as a subterfuge, is my impression. Somehow, domestically , a similar logic does not apply to the rights of homosexuals to have equal rights.) I am sure there must be evidence in this argument of young muslim women making arguments for the head scarf that make total sense(??) In terms of 'head-cover' In the fifties, it was de rigeur for most boys in this country to have crew cuts (that was all part of military chic - anti-communism, cold war, et al). Look alike,think alike and defeat the Reds. Gosh was it a relief to start to grow hair long like the French, think independently and then Allen Ginsberg came along and long hair bloomed all over the place. But to have long hair was by choice, not by government imposition. Course now, many go bald as a way of getting closer to even greater truths than just 'thoughtful' ones. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > about this veil issue, again---and please do have a look at that > kramer piece i mentioned in my last post for additional > gnarls---there is evidence to suggest that young muslim women are > being FORCED to veil themselves by male members of their households... > > again, a very convoluted situation... but this is one reason why some > feminists in france are pro the ban on head scarves... > > best, > > joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:52:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Golden Rue Devils Bring Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I gargantuan, they in the skies yet lower they to the ground with gold the moonless were golden, -- me: blooded for thee a sight to enjoy, thee, Virginia, moonless thee if ape thinks of a palace, behold,-- at the very-most least an aviary for letters' newborn steeds! I, more, I inched all drenched blooded for thee a sight to enjoy but glumly she bird then just die ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 17:06:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: on forced Secularism Comments: cc: A Kass Fleisher In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" stephen, yes, check: in fact you're exactly right... the feminist stance---or the stance of some feminists in france---seems in some ways to mirror the (u.s.) neocon argument that we can "liberate" people by forcing them to be like us... and in fact politics can make strange bedfellows, as you know, when e.g. antiporn feminists end up on the same side of the court case as the jerry falwells of the world... yet there is nonetheless evidence to support the claim that some significant number of french women/girls are being pressured to wear veils by males in their households... fathers, brothers... i'm not taking hard & fast sides here... i'm simply trying to help turn the conversation away from what might be a facile liberal perspective... viz., that we ought to permit everyone to voice their religious affiliations (?) publicly however they see fit, and w/o any regard for the historical, national, etc., context in which such voicing takes place... on the surface of it, this seems entirely reasonable, esp. on this side of the pond... but i'm trying to suggest, based on my admittedly limited grasp of the matter, that there are other forces at work, other wrinkles, and as some are arguing, the fraught history of secularism in france needs to be looked at closely, among other things... you can always take issue with some french feminists, but i think at least that we ought to have a long hard look at what they're saying, and why they're saying it... and hey, i've read my share of catherine mckinnon too... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 17:05:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <2be47f92be39fe.2be39fe2be47f9@nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh yes let us argue about who had it better in the Middle Ages from our our postmodern prism. I did not defend Slavery or the Holocaust- or the Catholic Church's role in those things and as a Catholic I accept responsibility for the evil perpetrated by my Church even if my Church will not accept it and I try in my own life to do what I can to change things. World history is cruel all nations have done evil there is no one cause to this evil except our humanness. The fact is that if you collect all the horror of the West, Islamic World, Asian Nations, African nations and the rest and look at them in the full scope of history there is plenty of evil to go around. No group is innocent of doing evil things and in fact we in the US are most guilty because we are hypocrites and we have no right to attack the French for anything. Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Christopher Leland > Winks > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 3:24 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > > This has been a rather interesting thread, topped off by Mr. > Bianchi's rambling defense of the poor (? -- how many looted > artworks in the Vatican?), misunderstood (by heretics, so-called > witches, homosexuals, assorted pagans, who are better off burnt > at the stake anyway), Catholic Church. What's next, a defense of > forced conversions in Africa and the Americas? (It was all for > their own good, as I suppose was slavery, since Mr. Bianchi > reassures us that throughout it all Chartres Cathedral and, > eventually, Mozart were also ad majoram gloriam Dei). > > Andre Breton -- from a Catholic country -- put it well: something > on the order of "all that is loathsome, swinish, and cowardly is > summed up for me in the name 'God.'" > > And frankly, Spain had it a lot better under the Muslims than it > did following the Catholic Reconquista (see "The Ornament of the > World," by Maria Rosa Menocal). Islamic rule of Al-Andalus > placed Jews in high positions (unlike Catholicism, which > demonized Jews and as recently as the 1940s was thoroughly > complicit with the Holocaust) and in general was far more > tolerant than the Papacy has ever been (though let's hear it for > the Borgia Pope Alexander, who at least was no hypocrite). St. > Thomas Aquinas had all those infidel Arabs to thank for his > chance to read Aristotle, right? > > Having said this, I don't believe the French ruling class is on > very firm ethical ground in their secularism, given their own > complicity in the Holocaust (recently evidenced in their > kid-gloves treatment of Maurice Papon) and their colonial wars > against Algiers (and that's only the past 60 years). > Fundamentalism, however odious and reprehensible, nourishes > itself on the racism that France has constantly deployed against > its colonial "others." For examples of poetic critiques of this > racism, do I have to mention the Negritude poets, Frantz Fanon, > "The Battle of Algiers"? Or should I enumerate all the hideous > remarks by "distinguished" (and Catholic) Frenchmen assembled by > Aime Cesaire in the "Discourse on Colonialism"? > > I'm not being chauvinist here; far be it from me to extol the > hideous situation of "these States." Indeed, having been on this > list for a while, I find much of it to be "(North) American" in > the worst sense -- thoroughly parochial and indifferent to > non-Anglo-American poets (example: is anyone calling our > attention to Iraqi poets?). > > Christopher Winks > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 18:25:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <000a01c4d98c$a2e3bf60$7ec2b043@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { No group is innocent of doing evil things and in fact we in { the US are most guilty because we are hypocrites and we have no right to { attack the French for anything. Not even French fries, since it was the goddamned Belgians who committed those. Hal "Life swarms with innocent monsters." --Charles Baudelaire Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:06:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Haas; Well said. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haas Bianchi" To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 3:05 PM Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > Oh yes let us argue about who had it better in the Middle Ages from our our > postmodern prism. I did not defend Slavery or > the Holocaust- or the Catholic Church's role in those things and as a > Catholic I accept responsibility for the evil perpetrated by my Church even > if my Church will not accept it and I try in my own life to do what I can to > change things. > > World history is cruel all nations have done evil there is no one cause to > this evil except our humanness. The fact is that if you collect all the > horror of the West, Islamic World, Asian Nations, African nations and the > rest and look at them in the full scope of history there is plenty of evil > to go around. No group is innocent of doing evil things and in fact we in > the US are most guilty because we are hypocrites and we have no right to > attack the French for anything. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 18:34:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Spun Grass / Sleep Goosebumps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Spun Grass / Sleep Goosebumps Down head like set noise like deflating rapidly settled down length like = deflating rapidly settled down length time through way few years = delivery truck years gone help journals buttery mouth took hand cried = mouth placed gentle harder praising prowess body dancers who Legs = feeling electricity through way down married wet slippery lips need = situation mesmerized head down legs scrambled get sorry thought up lots = please just cutting dragging mouth took first time find pussy slow = rocking rhythm too big cat snapped first experience sucked More more = feeling more morning news talk more morning prolonged coal black hair = strokes years delivery truck years first experience moaned happily back = against upper arm felt powerful force intended dagger between legs = feeling electricity through way down married Sorry thought took slim = silver situation attentions moved little sex scrambled get sorry thought = took slim silver situation felt herself eyes began felt noticeable tan = line go lay back told bartender/cook one girls pushed picked very = forward reached one fuck Hand alarm reached again discovers wolf again = wonderful thing too stopped thrusting daddy line barely noticeable signs = willing cock fingering sit down nothing passion strong brother dick pop = mouth saw hair pulling grabbed two two girls rolled chuckled good humor = Getting noise like deflating rapidly settled down length lay down' = covered detail earlier series covered detail earlier series good long = clinging cool guess rather like fingers moved water large glass drew = walked hoping hadn't teased wrists free being examined wife back feel = Dancer right took hand moves cup breast semen splash against still = rolled off certainly want laid like fingers through drenched spot window = time get noise like deflating rapidly settled down length made slowly = down moved little moans very socialise man climax notice side Whispered = ear down dagger lay flat opened standing right up cried cock fucked = filling smells filling smells filling cum spurting down help myself = carried wanted sounds queer alarm reached again discovers smashed lips = balls started house even harder think want fuck wrong Suppose simply get = sorry thought deep tongue mouth enclosed whimpered ritualistic effort = subway where made feel warm sweet one hand laughed concentrate looking = while being golf possibility being bubbling hands body naked woman just = finished rooms like semen splash against still Grasp time through = slipped hard running late work one supposed earnest both win incredibly = sexy inside snatch quick professional rolled cunt slowly take again = small ass fuck pussy brakes tortured eyes listens fell boyfriend gone = years delivery truck years gone help Loose head tongue leaned forward = easily slipped hands blouse next eyes listens fell blowing really = clothes add clothes across face saw rolled off certainly want helpless = aroused dancer inside balls while little noise like deflating rapidly = settled down length made open Lap table making sure face myself because = ages balls one hand found take ravaged feel vagina finger like set off = lay floor delight walk guess strokes years delivery truck years first = experience only take slipped hard back full attention put real fight = fire body shooked Thank up slid slowly stretching began opening herself = down disgusting really need attempting comfort need situation felt = slipped affect harder praising prowess like stud room vice-like grip = clamped shelves second finger driveway knew stature - knew reason why = dad Instead rub across river car asked sucking swirling knocking wind = bounced like die sheer bliss began lick slit fact maneuvered lick fresh = must went bed wonder adventure set up goosebumps popped cunt characters = enjoyed saturated panties tightened came up something Arrived legs = stopping touched grass feel take ravaged feel vagina indeed caressed = every once again sporting finished maid through first experience sure = hell can see down one next few minutes grabbed morning like set off lay = floor delight walk always struck odd secret Anticipation began respond = harder down between legs penis against right up cried mouth placed = gentle arms pulled back bloody suppose drinking breathing hard = enchantments easily slipped down panties wet smooth makeup making look = window very often liking happened hand Miss opportunity take little more = more events write more morning like hold noise like deflating rapidly = settled down length can will frame examined wife back feel still think = want go special fuck one hand down quivering ankles looking forward = where made wince knew meant Exciting quite surprise hawk passion control = same watched face saw finished again watching looked each every hanging = breasts sides gently put suit himself times everyone mouth directly = facing face filling smells filling smells room fell onto talk more some = adept Bounce nicely shapely butt where made wince knew stiff penises = cocked maze wiggled smashed lips kissed where made wince knew stiff = penises easily slipped down panties wet juice second juices slid soon = got passion kisses lunch suck oppressively warm interior still stand tit = Daddy line barely noticeable tan line flicker briefly reaching cunt = myself back eyes mouthing mound knee thigh one supposed limit forward = where made wince knew stiff penises cocked aimed intended words = screaming words like loose thick tensed holding goosebumps Grip clamped = where strokes years delivery truck years first deflating rapidly settled = down length lay back drop decided put two time losing mind use change = brother mind obviously must remember lifted lips kissed licked all = finger underside spun already sleep Grass --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 11/26/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 18:41:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Second Etched / Relational Data Exchange MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Second Etched / Relational Data Exchange Image: www.august-highland.com/relational1.html Text: Second Etched Protested said laughing opened mouth another surprise suddenly married = going new just another car asked sucking swirling knocking wind return = knew meant giggled patting damp fabric begged standing right up cried = Truck years first experience one else clothes add clothes across face = slow rocking rhythm said loudly clinging through making sure hell can = clothes add clothes across face saw hair pulling grabbed smile put = wrists free being examined wife back feel still think want close Swallow = tongue making made woman concentrate looking while being golf edge bed = legs drew dagger lay soon got between legs overalls slide crotch relaxed = scurry fright maze stopping touched tip chattered come still think want = thank resumed comprehend new twist life complements Again tableau broken = took slim married life comprehend new twist life semen splash against = still shut rubbed against upper arm hand maze balls started get audible = silence walked hugged gave eyes watching breast other stranger business = travel too too much passion control Gentle bumped time naked woman = driveway knew stature - knew reason one glob come watch ass beer = returned table shoe shoe shoe shoe shoe separate ways felt great touch = kissed where made wince knew stiff really close take hard ass fuck wrong = idea who fuck sucked mouth days Again open tiny puckered asshole stroked = nipples panties wet sweat thing both win said like set up cried mouth = kissing hollered trying too hated again open legs way time thinking = women managed bind wrists yes grabbed balls one second cat neck push = down entire face driveway Can will sure expertly bring reached certain = start cum fair let said watch balls one hand found way everyone mouth = completely reach years delivery truck years gone help journals rained = down length realized voice belonged sorry thought drinking fruit come = oozed Down boxers down scurry fright maze stopping touched tip chattered = kindness strokes years delivery truck years first experience standing = sure fired touched sure wrists free being examined wife back feel = quickly little driveway knew stature - knew reason why dad penis = Examined wife back feel still think want whimper lips sat just enjoy = schlong huge plum-like mouth consider rising idea shower handsome once = again really through making sure hell can will sure expertly memorable = bright smile put suit doesn't often liking least said move Nipple = herself eyes closed hand broke working way down moved legs wider see = balls one hand using other steam surrounding small up lots please just = cutting dragging mouth took first time find pussy begin lather always = good humor rolled off certainly want vibrator Popped again open legs = driveway knew stature - knew reason why dad cheek still hated further = realized voice belonged sorry thought baby cum intended lifted chin hair = chest see eyes lit up screwed cried mouth placed gentle harder praising = prowess body dancers who Wonderful thing wonderful thing seen naked = opened mouth enclosed knew stiff penises cocked aimed fingers earlier = know whatever made hitting back semen splash against still shut rubbed = against upper arm found way everyone mouth completely teased wrists free = being examined Tip chattered come air went second etched the visual work of August Highland is at the www.august-highland.com online studio the literary work of August Highland is at the www.litob.com project center all media projects of August Highland are at the www.cultureanimal.com global headquarters the international literary journal, the MAG, published by August = Highland is at the www.muse-apprentice-guild.com website where submissions = guidelines for poetry and fiction and deadline information can be found the visual work of August Highland is at the www.august-highland.com online studio the literary work of August Highland is at the www.litob.com project center all media projects of August Highland are at the www.cultureanimal.com global headquarters the international literary journal, the MAG, published by August = Highland is at the www.muse-apprentice-guild.com website where submissions = guidelines for poetry and fiction and deadline information can be found --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 11/26/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 23:04:36 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: on forced Secularism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bravo Chris!!! Tyrone Williams -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Leland Winks Sent: Dec 3, 2004 4:24 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: on forced Secularism This has been a rather interesting thread, topped off by Mr. Bianchi's rambling defense of the poor (? -- how many looted artworks in the Vatican?), misunderstood (by heretics, so-called witches, homosexuals, assorted pagans, who are better off burnt at the stake anyway), Catholic Church. What's next, a defense of forced conversions in Africa and the Americas? (It was all for their own good, as I suppose was slavery, since Mr. Bianchi reassures us that throughout it all Chartres Cathedral and, eventually, Mozart were also ad majoram gloriam Dei). Andre Breton -- from a Catholic country -- put it well: something on the order of "all that is loathsome, swinish, and cowardly is summed up for me in the name 'God.'" And frankly, Spain had it a lot better under the Muslims than it did following the Catholic Reconquista (see "The Ornament of the World," by Maria Rosa Menocal). Islamic rule of Al-Andalus placed Jews in high positions (unlike Catholicism, which demonized Jews and as recently as the 1940s was thoroughly complicit with the Holocaust) and in general was far more tolerant than the Papacy has ever been (though let's hear it for the Borgia Pope Alexander, who at least was no hypocrite). St. Thomas Aquinas had all those infidel Arabs to thank for his chance to read Aristotle, right? Having said this, I don't believe the French ruling class is on very firm ethical ground in their secularism, given their own complicity in the Holocaust (recently evidenced in their kid-gloves treatment of Maurice Papon) and their colonial wars against Algiers (and that's only the past 60 years). Fundamentalism, however odious and reprehensible, nourishes itself on the racism that France has constantly deployed against its colonial "others." For examples of poetic critiques of this racism, do I have to mention the Negritude poets, Frantz Fanon, "The Battle of Algiers"? Or should I enumerate all the hideous remarks by "distinguished" (and Catholic) Frenchmen assembled by Aime Cesaire in the "Discourse on Colonialism"? I'm not being chauvinist here; far be it from me to extol the hideous situation of "these States." Indeed, having been on this list for a while, I find much of it to be "(North) American" in the worst sense -- thoroughly parochial and indifferent to non-Anglo-American poets (example: is anyone calling our attention to Iraqi poets?). Christopher Winks ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 23:45:00 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: sometimes i'm all ears - spontaneous bop prosody - endowments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been contemplating the reciprocal activities of speaking and listening= .=20 Sometimes my ears are listening to others' joys and pains, mostly pains; an= d=20 at other times, I'm burned out and want someone to listen to me. Poetry=20 offers a spectrum of communication, sometimes only one way. Other times the= re are=20 rare moments of connection. I highly recommend the =20 word-and-music-for-the-ear of Steven Dalachinsky and Vernon Frazer. I've spe= nt the last several days=20 listening to them. Nobody inhabits their own words better than Steve, and=20 nobody combines humor, energy & rant better than Vernon. For the starving a= rtist=20 I recommend the on-line, probably hijacked, version of Steve's "Incomplete=20 Directions" at VITAMINIC and Vernon's "Sex Queen of the Berlin Turnpike". H= ope=20 you were smart enough to take up Vernon on his free offer. I haven't heard=20 anything I don't like from these two indigenous refugee post-beat men. Both= the=20 hip-hop generation and old timers like me who missed the genre first time=20 around will enjoy them. Expand a few minds the consumer way, support these=20 national treasures. Buy their work as holiday gifts, stocking stuffers. Per= son to=20 person endowments are a sure thing. Save yourself the misery of applying fo= r=20 grants, support one another. =20 I no longer aspire to be a good poet. I'll settle, listen & connect with=20 them hitting & making it. A wise woman said that it isn't easy being human.= =20 Maybe that's because we don't have very many good teachers. Listen for the=20= rare=20 real moments of truth in their lives. If you're lucky, someone will listen=20= &=20 connect with you. =20 =20 _http://stage.vitaminic.co.uk/main/steve_dalachinsky/all_tracks/_=20 (http://stage.vitaminic.co.uk/main/steve_dalachinsky/all_tracks/)=20 =20 comfortably numb =20 the problem with some people is the trouble with listening to other people bothered by other people my ears open out only one way and swallow everyone's pain pain pain pain yes yes i see some are all ears no tongue their heart in their ears til finally they're deaf numbed by the suffering of others their tongue still silent they retreat with heart into their head to survive alone trapped safely entombed embalmed reluctant beauty preserved in ice solitary ---cold--- stars who cared too much nobody listened to them poor them poor me after all we're all wounded bleeding screaming what can we offer except the sound of our blood usually the wrong type no longer safe to offer anything else like timeless blissful entanglement where hearts meet in flesh sigh moan hot wetness so simple no more flesh heart tongue head i've passed the point no return less than human hope not mebbe i'll meet one of them poor deaf frozen tongue hearts mebbe i can talk mebbe they can listen mebbe i can listen together with others big deal will it change one goddam thing probably not what are the odds forget about it -------------------- =20 for strangers =20 tell me something about yourself let your heart and your mind flow out through your mouth whether tangled and twisted or sweet, smooth and straight let the words flood your being and open your gate =20 tell me the dreams from before you grew hopeless the truth not the lies about love and its promise bring the pain and the longing back into view tell me your dreams and i=E2=80=99ll dream with you ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 00:44:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: >From Yad Vashem Database MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >From Yad Vashem Database Place of Residence Name Town District Region Country Birth Date Source Sondheim Max Kitzingen Wuerzburg Unterfranken Bavaria Germany 1867 Page of Testimony Sondheim Julius Kitzingen Wuerzburg Unterfranken Bavaria Germany 1893 Page of Testimony Sondheim Grete Frankfort On The Main Wiesbaden Hesse-nassau Germany 1901 Page of Testimony Sondheim Sophie Page of Testimony Sondheim Sophie Klein Langheim Wuerzburg Unterfranken Bavaria Germany Page of Testimony Lewin Irma Kleinlangheim Wuerzburg Unterfranken Bavaria Germany 1890 list of victims from Germany Baer Betty 1892 list of deportation from the Netherlands Herrmann Rosalie 1875 list of Theresienstadt camp inmates Sondheimova Olga 1882 list of Theresienstadt camp inmates Sondheim Viktor 1883 list of Theresienstadt camp inmates Sondheim Rosalie 1868 list of Theresienstadt camp inmates Sondheim Oskar 1893 list of Theresienstadt camp inmates Sondheim Sara 1887 list of Theresienstadt camp inmates Lewin Irma Kleinlangheim Wuerzburg Unterfranken Bavaria Germany 1896 Page of Testimony Sondheim Herman Frankfurt Am Main Wiesbaden Hesse-nassau Germany Page of Testimony Results Page: 1 2 3 Next Place of Residence Name Town District Region Country Birth Date Source Bayersdorfer Selma Muenchen Muenchen Oberbayern Bavaria Germany 1883 list of victims from Germany Oppenheim Bertha Frankfurt Am Main Wiesbaden Hesse-nassau Germany 1863 list of victims from Germany Oppenheimer Bertha Frankfurt Am Main Wiesbaden Hesse-nassau Germany 1863 list of victims from Germany Sondheim Emil Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany 1886 list of victims from Germany Sondheim Fanna Wuppertal Duesseldorf Rhine Province Germany 1855 list of victims from Germany Sondheim Hedwig Koeln Koeln Rhine Province Germany 1888 list of victims from Germany Sondheim Hermann Frankfurt Am Main Wiesbaden Hesse-nassau Germany 1883 list of victims from Germany Sondheim Margarete Frankfurt Am Main Wiesbaden Hesse-nassau Germany 1901 list of victims from Germany Sondheim Sara Frankfurt Am Main Wiesbaden Hesse-nassau Germany 1887 list of victims from Germany Sondheim Theresia Kirtorf Giessen Hesse Germany 1880 list of victims from Germany Tausig Franziska Mannheim Karlsruhe Baden Germany 1877 list of victims from Germany Baer Betty 1892 Page of Testimony Sondheim Emil Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany 1886 list of deportation from Berlin Sondheim Hedwig Koeln Muengersdorf Koeln Rhine Province Germany 1888 list of deportation from Berlin Sondheimova Jana 1886 list of Theresienstadt camp inmates Results Page: Previous 1 2 3 Next Place of Residence Name Town District Region Country Birth Date Source Hahn Rosa Kitzingen Wuerzburg Unterfranken Bavaria Germany 1891 list of victims from Germany Hermann Rosalie Kirtorf Giessen Hesse Germany 1875 list of victims from Germany Isaacson Anna Essen Duesseldorf Rhine Province Germany 1880 list of victims from Germany Sondheim Joseph 1864 list of deportation from France Baer Betty Ober Glen Hesse Germany 1892 list of victims from Germany Results Page: Previous 1 2 3 +++ __ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 01:33:32 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit po walk dream cock hard drive nite wove flow by heart climb lite loves blow bites flame rock sung hot gone song slip slung gimme his hummer not.... 1:30....awake as i'm gonna be...drn. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 22:45:16 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Croggon" To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:54 PM Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > On 3/12/04 6:36 PM, "richard.tylr" wrote: > > > There should be no interference in what people want to wear - within > > reason - in a school - and if the French were not so (very many of them are) > > racist - very racist to Arabs and ironically also to Jews - they would allow > > individuals freedom of choice as to what to wear etc and respect their > > customs. The French as well as the US has an atrocious colonial record of > > oppression) the least they can do is to recognise difference) - it is a > > racist and oppressive act by a racist and oppressive government > > I'm a bit torn on this question, for a number of reasons; one of which is, > that it is very complex, and racism certainly plays in some of its aspects. > As do gender questions, which bend back on themselves in the questions of > cultural imperialism. But I don't agree with this statement. Yes, many > French people are racist, no doubt about it; as are many USAmericans, many > Australians, many Malaysians.... I want to ask, so what? Rcism is one o the "fuellers" of Imperialist wars - but see Patrick's post on this - he has been right throughout Europe and experienced racism (as anti-semitism) and he has also been targetted by the CIA for protests against US actions in Angola etc. Ok not all French people are racist - that is of course a given - but if we are criticising US Imperialism (and British,and Australian (in Indonesia etc) and New Zealand (we have done our fair share and our present Governmnet actually suppports the US - but pretends not to - they sneaked troops in to Iraq (and had a navy presence there) and turned a blind eye to NZ "security " people on very high wages protctcting US andother in the Invasion: Phil Goff (Minister of - (Internatinal Affairs or whatever it is) is very pro the War on Terror (and hence the Invasion of Afghahistan etc); and many many other countries - we have to include the French and remember that the French Government - if the US was defeated in Iraq would in all probabilty rush to fil the gap - they are capitalists and very right wing elements amongst them. (This knowing their appaling record in Indochina and Northern Africa - French agents also sank a ship "The Greenpeace" in Auckland in 1986, kiling an Italian crew member - let;s not forget teh French Imperialist aims) ). Racism is what fuels opression. Thus it aids the US/Birtish Imperialists etc to target Moslems and others (it is alos Africa) - any counrty whose people are different - of course it doesnt and wouldnt stop them bombing a "Western Nation" if it came to it and France eg. decided to send troops into Iraq to defend freedom then US and France would go to war and the US would probably attack France. If they had sent tropps to defenmd Iraq I would have ahd great respect for them - put your money where your mouth is. But France is basically another capitalist/Imeperialist nation - they also have ambitions of power and want acces to oil and drug cash as the US now have. > > My husband Daniel Keene recently spent a bit of time in the Aubervilliers > school where the hijab question first exploded, as a visiting artist with > the local theatre La Commune, which has a strong program of Social Action > (more on social action, which is very interesting, in a piece by him on my > blog, http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com). And he said that he totally agreed > with it. The French do have a right to protect their hard-fought-for > tradition of secularism in schools. Wearing scarves doesnt affect secularism - if you have a truly demcratic country you can stand all views and attitudes - you can have some one promoting Moslemic religion, Christianity, Judaism, communism, anarchism etc etc in fact that is how society is these various groups live with each other - any 'conflict' of this can be stimulating - and experience of difference can be interesting - I would not feel threatened if I attended University or school and all the women or young women or girls wore Burkhas - that would be their choice - imagine the reverse - that they all turned up naked every day - well I would tolerate that (I would have to ) - but to inject some humour - I like women to have at least some clothes on!! That is - before the fun and games begins..but note I said 'within reason' nakedness is impracticable! Maybe nakedness wouldn't matter -it is the behoviour of poeple - what people's religious or political veiws etc are dont matter - especailly if they can be debated with or at least they are allowed to make a "statement" (as eg gays make statements by their clothes or exagerated actiosn etc - or holding hands etc etc - or some gays prefer to be undemonstrative - now seeing a lot of people wearing scarves or Burkhas or whatever or even some sporting Hitler moestaches means a stimulating environment for people - diversity encourages tolernce and is challenging to young minds. Repression of different religious practices or habits or cultures or whatever - or dress codes - is stupid and conservative: it is dscrimminant and racist as well in its effect - divisive: if those wearing Burkhas come from countries that are supposedly repressive (although as I said 2 women here are adament they want to wear Burkhas - (they do so from choice not from being repressed as the propaganda goes)) -of their situasion or their beliefs: we feel are "backward' then we have to learn that that is how it is for them and our "backward" may indeed be their foreward - we have to be careful thinking we are more civilised than arabic or moslem peoples. But that's not why he agreed with it. > He spoke to the kids there, and _they_ agreed with it. Aubervilliers is a > poor part of Paris, with an extremely diverse ethnic mix from North Africa, > the Middle East, you name it. And the children like being somewhere where, > for a few hours each day, they can just be children at school, and not Arabs > at school, or Jews at school, or Algerians or Africans at school. To insist > on marking out difference in a place where everyone is already so markedly > different makes their place in relation to each other even more difficult to > negotiate. With respect - I hold the opposite view on this diference is good. Negotiation is learnt in the "battlefield of the "real world - there could even be fist fights at what I might call a "healthy" school - but teacher etc will learn methods to show how people are different by questioning or revealing the truth about history and the world - thus to be able to negotiate is better than fistticuffs. At my old high school I saw a number of fights by young men and others standing up for themselves - but most conflict was resolved by various methods we all employ in our daily intercourse with others - by negotiation, politenessss, discussion,etc etc As addenda - banning certain religious dress codes is as stupid as banning the Bible, Das Kapital, modern art, the Koran, Buddism, Mien Kempf, Roland Barthes,books about homosexuality, books on whatever, even people who are Nazis: now once a "school", or any other group is formed that group will find ways to "regulate" behaviour that is not felt right by the majority - not by suppressing views - but by opposing hurtful or divisive attitudes by strong arguments - or strong action if the activity - behviour becomes very bad or very despicable. > It's like how uniforms in state schools eliminates financial hierarchies; if > all the children have to wear the same thing, then the kid who can't afford > the expensive trainers doesn't feel so out of it. I take your point on this and for my childrens' uniforms were at least good to a point (it was costly to pay for our childrens edu but not too bad) - but I think we should be not be concentrating on what people wear or if some particular child is better dressed etc - we need to strengthen their self-eteem so that dress - or the poverty (shown by) of it or not etc is not a big issue for them. In daily life we see ea vast aray of different dresses and cultural kinds -- here in Auckland I see the Sikhs, women almost totally covered , women partially covered (from the Middle East),Hinus with spots on their heasd or scarves, (I quite often find some very enlighted and educated Indian women helping to run dairies in this working class area of Auckland (Panmure); Maori who are often sloppily dressed on purpose - or have (US "rap" kind of clothes), Maori who are well dressed, old Europeans who are dressed like Steptoe of Steptoe and Son, homels people rummaging in rubbish bins etc, Chinese who always seem to manage to look well dressed, the "indigenous" Chinese who are "real Kiwis"; amd those who are kiwis who dress as "rough as guts" like yours truly, and so on, in K Road gays and transvestites parade the streets, or young women come out of night clubs in very low slung jeans and so on - but ultimately it boils down to this (said the crayfish) - we have a vast divergency of people and views in the "real: world and so it should be in schools. But the Moslems were targetted for strong political reasons that go beond many of these arguments: it is part of world wide right shift to fascism and as Imperialism enters into whirlpools of major crises and cycles of over production - The War of Terror has been taken into French schools. Richard Taylor > > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au > Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 23:15:36 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: What About Forced Existentialism and Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Secularism isnt the only "way": and also why should religion be banned from public display? (Your post started out well - for me! - lol- but this I dont agree with) ....I say this while I am not religious myself - I have my own world view which is not strictly - if at all - atheistic. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Jo Malo" To: Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:23 AM Subject: What About Forced Existentialism and Poetry? > Nobody has contributed more to secularism, first in Europe and then in > America, than the existentialists. From Nietzsche to the Beats, philosophy and > poetry have been strange bedfellows. No one has been a more articulate voice > for common sense, logic, and humanism than Camus who actually hated the > existentialist label. The individual must reconcile oneself to the idea that society > isn't going to be comfortable for her. Religious folk should adjust > likewise. Laws will always favor majorities, secular or religious, but in order to > protect the rights of minorities, secularism is a must. All religions should be > banned from public display, since they usually tend to be nothing more than > elitism and racism, showy, seductive and intimidating to children no matter > how benign. Poets as a rule are sloppy philosophers who excel at expressing > their individualism. Maybe poetry should become the popular mode of expression > rather than the mask of religion which seeks to put all others into a > manageable herd. Secularism is an improvement in human discourse, and it should be > encouraged in schools and the media. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:13:53 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <000c01c4d9e5$f6bc72e0$597d37d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Azar Nafisi--whose book, Reading Lolita in Teheran, people on this list should read, if you already haven't--makes the point that when the Islamic Republic enforced its own version of the Islamic code of female dress, it essentially hijacked religion to a political purpose, and she uses the example of either her mother or her grandmother (I don't have the book handy and my memory here is a little sketchy), who'd covered her head for entire life as an expression of her religious faith, but who protested adamantly against her government's policies as a corruption of that faith. It's worth asking whether what this thread is calling "forced secularism" does not on some level function in an analogous way. In other words, whose political interests does it serve--and I mean here by "whose" the people who are in power or who want to be in power, not the individual children who go to school or their families, etc.--and how and why? This seems to me a separate question--though I think these two are often conflated, and I think are being conflated in this thread--from whether the wearing of the chador or hejab is misogynist, forced on women by the men of their families and so on. This latter question is one that needs to be taken on in the context of Islam, its history, its religious scholarship, the differences between and among its various sects, the cultural differences between and among its practitioners, and so on--not in the name of cultural relativism, but as a matter of respect. In other words, the fact that there are Muslim women who will tell you that they do indeed feel protected by their chador or hejab--the first being the long black robe often associated with Iranian women after the revolution in that country and the second being only a head scarf--does not justify taking a stance which says, "Ah, well, that's their culture, and they accept it, and so if that's the way they want to do things, well it's all right, then." (Because, ultimately, if the veil is indeed an expression of women's oppression--and, to me, as long as it is understood within Islam to mean something about the protection of women from male sexual predation and/or the quarantining of female sexuality within male defined and controlled bounds, it is an expression of women's oppression--then cultural relativism is a cop out.) But the fact that there are Muslim women who embrace the way their version of their religious tradition teaches them to dress does mean, however, that any critique of that dress code needs to come from a position of understanding of Islam and not from the patronizing assumption that "we-who-do-not-expect-our-women-to-walk-around-with-their-heads-covered" are somehow "more civilized." Then, of course, there are the issues people have raised of anti-Arab racism and imperialism and Muslim-hatred and the historical experience out of which France's policy emerges, and I do not want to deny the importance of any of these, but they all seem not to ask the question I started with: Whose political interests does this policy serve and how and why? What agenda is it a part of? Is that agenda, are the people who represent those interests, trustworthy? And yes, I realize these questions lead us into precisely the questions of racism and sexism, etc. that I just outlined. What I am trying to get at here is that these questions do not exist in this situation as abstractions; they are embodied by specific people and parties and groups and interests within French politics/the French government--and it is that analysis that I have not seen, and that I freely admit I might very well have missed, in this thread. Rich Newman _________________________________ Richard Jeffrey Newman Associate Professor, English Chair, International Education Committee Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu www.ncc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 09:51:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: on forced Secularism Comments: To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net In-Reply-To: <20041204131400.BZPA3388.out002.verizon.net@Richard> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Then, of course, there are the issues people have raised of anti-Arab racism >and imperialism and Muslim-hatred and the historical experience out of which >France's policy emerges, and I do not want to deny the importance of any of >these, but they all seem not to ask the question I started with: Whose >political interests does this policy serve and how and why? What agenda is >it a part of? Is that agenda, are the people who represent those interests, >trustworthy? > >And yes, I realize these questions lead us into precisely the questions of >racism and sexism, etc. that I just outlined. What I am trying to get at >here is that these questions do not exist in this situation as abstractions; >they are embodied by specific people and parties and groups and interests >within French politics/the French government--and it is that analysis that I >have not seen, and that I freely admit I might very well have missed, in >this thread. It isn't policy to ban scarves from public schools, but to ban all religious symbols from public schools, including crosses, mezuzahs, stars of david and yarmulkes. So the question is equally: whose political interests are served by banning crosses, etc.? I was in France when the controversy first erupted over the scarves of four little girls in a small city in central France (sorry, I forget which). The school principle told them and their parents that the scarf would have to go or the girls couldn't attend. The girls, or more probably their parents, refused to comply. I think it safe to assume that there were only the four girls because all over France a great many others, probably not previously aware of the regulation, had complied. In this case there were demonstrations which spread to other towns. It seemed pretty clear that what was being expressed in most cases had more to do with pent-up frustrations about the other indignities of immigrant life than with religion per se. Most French moslems are as secular as most French Christians, and of the remainder most aren't adherents of sects that require the scarves. For the remaining minority there are religioyusly-affiliated private schools, the expense of which could probably be largely alleviated thru the funding of scholarships by wealthy muslims, as in catholic and jewish schools (there have been, as far as I know, no protests by orthodox jews or catholics about the unfairness of having to pay for their childrens' educations). I would suggest that the solution to the problem probably follows from its causes: if the motivation for most of the noise is the general condition of muslim immigrants in France then something has to be done about those general conditions. Hard to do given the constant influx from countries where there's little economic opportunity, and some of the resulant problems are pretty graphic. I've seen young north african men patted down by the cops for no apparent reason, I've occasionally heard racist remarks (and probably would have heard them a lot more often in the south, where refugee pieds noirs settled in large numbers and where economic conditions for everyone are more strained). And poverty is like everywhere else the usual state of newly arrived immigrants. But French daily life is hardly segregated, and there are lots of middle class muslims. The first requirements are language skills and education. My Algerian dentist, whose clientele was mixed but mostly "French," had both, and he considered himself French, as well. And the cultural influence flows both ways, often with no apparent barriers. It being France, this is most evident in food. Everywhere North African food has become a staple. At a Breton folk festival and at the theater festival in Avignon, which is to say from one end of the country to another, the intermission food of choice is merguez, a tunisian lamb sausage. And when the kids got together to dance afterwards a lot of the music was north african fusion (sorry again, I forget what that's called). Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 07:09:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Jennifer K. Dick & Stephen-Paul Martin Reading, San Diego MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For any in the San Diego area next Friday eve: San Diego Poetry Guild presents Jennifer K. Dick and Stephen-Paul Martin this coming Friday, Dec 10, at SDPG headquarters in University Heights. The reading begins at 7pm. Light refreshments will be served before, during, and after the reading. SDPG: 1916 Madison Avenue, University Heights, one block east of Twiggs Coffeehouse. For more information, contact *guild at factoryschool dot org* -- or reply to this message backchannel. Wide distribution of this announcement is encouraged and appreciated. See you there! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 10:41:35 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20041204091905.044c2b60@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>It isn't policy to ban scarves from public schools, but to ban all religious symbols from public schools, including crosses, mezuzahs, stars of david and yarmulkes.<< True enough, and this was in a sentence that I accidentally edited out of my post--the point of my post was not to ask whose interests are served by banning head scarves, but rather whose are served by what has been labeled in this thread forced secularism? Richard ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 11:00:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: The Serial Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 OK, here's my list (I'm mostly familiar with these texts...) Pound, Cantos Zukofsky, A Blau DuPlessis, Drafts Fitterman, Metropolis Please add to this list as I will be jumping into serial territory. Thanks all Christophe Casamassima www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 11:31:49 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: poetic disconnect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "If art and real life are two separate and disconnected entities, one 'interrupting' the other, what is the point of art?" _http://www.hackwriters.com/rumpus.htm_ (http://www.hackwriters.com/rumpus.htm) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 17:12:01 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: T_Martin Subject: Re: The Serial Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Robin Blaser, The Holy Forest Jack Spicer, Admonitions, The Holdy Grail, Book of Magazine Verse Robert Duncan, Passages, The Structure of Rime www.timothymartin.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 12:21:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: The Serial Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Apologies, but I was thinking about lifelong projects... Thanks,though, unless I'm missing something www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 10:14:12 -0800 Reply-To: Ashley Edwards Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ashley Edwards Subject: Re: The Serial In-Reply-To: <20041204172156.58D9F13F1C@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles Olson, The Maximus Poems ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 10:47:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: 4th Sunday Open Mic at Santos in San Diego MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Long story short, my 4th Sunday Santos Open Mic in San Diego has been cancelled due to the cafe itself closing its doors. Problems with the City and zoning... Ter Who's looking for a new venue for her open mic... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 13:02:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: The Serial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joseph Conte would add Paul Blackburn's _Journals_, Creeley's _Pieces_, Oppen's _Discrete Series_, others by Zukofsky and Neidecker. _Unending Design: The Forms of Postmodern Poetry_. Ithaca: Cornell UP, 1991. furniture_ press wrote: > > OK, here's my list (I'm mostly familiar with these texts...) > > Pound, Cantos > Zukofsky, A > Blau DuPlessis, Drafts > Fitterman, Metropolis > > Please add to this list as I will be jumping into serial territory. > > Thanks all > > Christophe Casamassima > > www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! > > Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 21:00:48 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Subject: xStream #26 online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit xStream -- Issue #26 xStream Issue #26 is online ! 1. Regular (also available in PDF): Works from 5 poets (Umberto Allegrezza, Chris Murray, Steve Dalachinsky, Ross Priddle and Andrew Topel) 2. Autoissue: Poems generated by computer from Issue #26 texts, the whole autoissue is generated in "real-time", new version in every refresh. xStream is now available also in hardcopy version (POD) from http://www.lulu.com/xstream. Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Editor xStream WWW: http://xstream.xpressed.org email: xstream@xpressed.org -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 19:00:14 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Poetry of the Soccer Chant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/04/international/europe/04fprofile.html?oref=login&8hpib _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 13:02:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: The Serial In-Reply-To: <20041204160041.5BF9D13F1C@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Armand Schwerner, The Tablets Basil Bunting, Briggflatts Robin Blaser, The Holy Forest WCW, Paterson mIEKAL aND, Samsara Congeries (partially online at: http://cla.umn.edu/joglars/samsara_congeries/index.html) C Olson, Maximus Poems Ron Silliman, The Alphabet bpNichol, The Martyrology Frank Stanford, The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You & a great introduction to the Canadian long poem The New Long Poem Anthology http://www.talonbooks.com/Books/New_Long_Poem.html mIEKAL On Saturday, December 4, 2004, at 10:00 AM, furniture_ press wrote: > OK, here's my list (I'm mostly familiar with these texts...) > > Pound, Cantos > Zukofsky, A > Blau DuPlessis, Drafts > Fitterman, Metropolis > > Please add to this list as I will be jumping into serial territory. > > Thanks all > > Christophe Casamassima ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 12:17:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My feeling is that democratic governments have more to fear from monotheism and its agenda than from anything else. When faith-based, there is no dialogue, just the truth-knowing smirk you see on evangelical faces. While democracy is built on a foundation of discussion, compromise, and secular education. So I can see why the French government, in wisdom gained from history, would do this. While the US government seems bent on self-destruction. The Old World rises anew, even as the New World falls from the worshipping of old gods. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Jeffrey Newman" To: Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:41 AM Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > >>It isn't policy to ban scarves from public schools, but to ban all > religious symbols from public schools, including crosses, mezuzahs, stars > of david and yarmulkes.<< > > > True enough, and this was in a sentence that I accidentally edited out of my > post--the point of my post was not to ask whose interests are served by > banning head scarves, but rather whose are served by what has been labeled > in this thread forced secularism? > > Richard > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 15:34:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: The Serial In-Reply-To: <180F0FFC-4627-11D9-9BF4-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sondheim, Internet Text On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Armand Schwerner, The Tablets > Basil Bunting, Briggflatts > Robin Blaser, The Holy Forest > WCW, Paterson > mIEKAL aND, Samsara Congeries > (partially online at: > http://cla.umn.edu/joglars/samsara_congeries/index.html) > C Olson, Maximus Poems > Ron Silliman, The Alphabet > bpNichol, The Martyrology > Frank Stanford, The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You > > > & a great introduction to the Canadian long poem > The New Long Poem Anthology > http://www.talonbooks.com/Books/New_Long_Poem.html > > mIEKAL > > On Saturday, December 4, 2004, at 10:00 AM, furniture_ press wrote: > >> OK, here's my list (I'm mostly familiar with these texts...) >> >> Pound, Cantos >> Zukofsky, A >> Blau DuPlessis, Drafts >> Fitterman, Metropolis >> >> Please add to this list as I will be jumping into serial territory. >> >> Thanks all >> >> Christophe Casamassima > http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 20:50:09 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Bradshaw Subject: Re: The Serial In-Reply-To: <20041204172156.58D9F13F1C@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed lifelong serial projects: Ronald Johnson's Ark Duncan's Passages (it *was* a lifelong project) Beverly Dahlen's A Reading (what about projects of lifelong revision? revision as serial process? a la Leaves of Grass or Hejinian's My Life?) >From: furniture_ press >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: The Serial >Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 12:21:55 -0500 > >Apologies, but I was thinking about lifelong projects... > >Thanks,though, > >unless I'm missing something > >www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net >Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just >US$9.95 per year! > > >Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 14:13:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: The Serial Comments: To: Ashley Edwards In-Reply-To: <4a1228eb0412041014521c70e4@mail.gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 4-Dec-04, at 10:14 AM, Ashley Edwards wrote: > Charles Olson, The Maximus Poems > > Not a serial poem. Not as invented by Spicer et al A good poem and a LONG one, but not serial. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:07:47 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: [rbudde@unbc.ca: Stonestone] Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT poet/etc Rob Budde up there in Prince George wanted me to tell folk that the new issue of his is finally up http:\\stonestone.unbc.ca -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:11:22 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Bernadette Mayer & Philip Good workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Tsatsawassa Poetry Workshop Enjoy a winter workshop poetry retreat in the Upper Hudson Valley with=20 Bernadette Mayer and Philip Good. Write, see the sights and be inspired by t= he=20 country environment and Bernadette=E2=80=99s legendary approach towards poet= ry. Stay in=20 structure built in 1900 as a church now converted to a house. There are two=20 bedrooms with double beds available and one double bed in a high ceiling att= ic=20 space. The cost is $250.00 per person for a Friday night thru Sunday afterno= on=20 stay. All meals are included. Contact:=20 Bernadette_Mayer@Excite.com =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:35:46 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Google crunching the numbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT nteresting story about the sheer crunch of the incredible numbers: http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/software/0,39023769,39168647-1,00.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:39:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: "political shadows," by alan sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed "political shadows," by alan sondheim http://www.asondheim.org/wtc1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/wtc2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/wtc3.jpg images modified from database but the shadows are there, too dark to be real, too ominous, of older materials, satellites and aeroships doing their work. of reworking, inteference, as if to make them my own, invisible and impossible copyright materials i would assume. but of interest for screen saver, and thinking-piece. then of course updating of kiev.mov at both sites: http://www.asondheim.org/kiev.mov http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim/kiev.mov something to think about and it is still happening. question for study, what do we see? _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 23:50:43 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: T_Martin Subject: Re: The Serial Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Duncan's Passages was a life long poem Blaser's Holy Forest is a work that spanned something like 40 years or more. It was collected into one book in the '90's , but is one big "serial poem" in the Spicer sense of the word. And Spicer had quite a discourse on the serial poem. www.timothymartin.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 19:24:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ric carfagna Subject: Re: The Serial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Fisher, 'Place' and 'Gravity as a Consequence of Shape' ----- Original Message ----- From: "furniture_ press" To: Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:00 AM Subject: The Serial OK, here's my list (I'm mostly familiar with these texts...) Pound, Cantos Zukofsky, A Blau DuPlessis, Drafts Fitterman, Metropolis Please add to this list as I will be jumping into serial territory. Thanks all Christophe Casamassima www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 17:18:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Hugh Steinberg Subject: Re: The Serial In-Reply-To: <180F0FFC-4627-11D9-9BF4-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Though it's a wonderful poem, and definitely long, I don't think Stanford's The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You should be considered a serial poem because it is not divided into parts -- no numbered sections, no stanza breaks, not even any punctuation. Besides Spicer, can people recommend other critical works on serial poems? I think ML Rosenthal and Sally M. Gall's "The Modern Poetic Sequence" is ok, but limited. As for lifelong serial poems, I'd add Thomas McGrath's "Letter to an Imaginary Friend" to the list. Would HD's Trilogy count? Hugh Steinberg --- mIEKAL aND wrote: > Armand Schwerner, The Tablets > Basil Bunting, Briggflatts > Robin Blaser, The Holy Forest > WCW, Paterson > mIEKAL aND, Samsara Congeries > (partially online at: > http://cla.umn.edu/joglars/samsara_congeries/index.html) > C Olson, Maximus Poems > Ron Silliman, The Alphabet > bpNichol, The Martyrology > Frank Stanford, The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You > > > & a great introduction to the Canadian long poem > The New Long Poem Anthology > http://www.talonbooks.com/Books/New_Long_Poem.html > > mIEKAL > > On Saturday, December 4, 2004, at 10:00 AM, furniture_ press wrote: > > > OK, here's my list (I'm mostly familiar with these texts...) > > > > Pound, Cantos > > Zukofsky, A > > Blau DuPlessis, Drafts > > Fitterman, Metropolis > > > > Please add to this list as I will be jumping into serial territory. > > > > Thanks all > > > > Christophe Casamassima > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 21:01:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <001301c4da3e$4b0542c0$aefdfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel wrote: ..| When faith-based, there is no dialogue, ..| just the truth-knowing smirk you see on ..| evangelical faces. While democracy is built ..| on a foundation of discussion, compromise, ..| and secular education Just like not every follower of Islam is a terrorist, neither is every (evangelical) Christian holier-than-thou. The root of this misunderstanding, Joel, is I feel a failure of non-Christians to read the Christian writings and formulate one's own opinion of the foundation of evangelical faith. I think you are postulating here without any real knowledge of the true foundations of Christianity. To me, anyone who has bothered to read the New Testament cannot help but find a vast diversity of dialogue, compromise, and discussion, because that is exactly what is there to be found. Everything, in fact, is continually left open to dialogue in the evangelical writings and are *very democratically* arrived at: so much so that no less than 4 separate and contrasting accounts of the main doctrine (the 4 gospels of Jesus' ministry) are included in the cannon. This is a conscious effort to democratically seek the truth and avoid Mosaic-like peremptory commands. (It is unfortunate that the Gospel of Mary Magdalene was not included as a 5th gospel, instead of apocrypha, to likewise avoid any claims of patriarchal viewpoints). Christian authors, in fact, rarely dismiss any chance at open dialogue. Paul (author of a great deal of the New Testament) often indicates that he speaks only according to his own opinion and regularly chooses doubtful language and expressions which admit perplexity (such as Rom.3:28 "We think, therefore..."; Rom 8:18 "Now I think..."). All the Christian apostles likewise reason from the stance of argument. Everything the apostles wrote in the New Testament is plainly presented as deduction and argument: it is entirely open to discussion. When Paul states in 1Cor10:15 "I speak as to wise men, judge ye what I say..." he deliberately opens things up to discussion, encouraging others to debate the issue. Indeed, the personal path (one's own judgment and carefully considered opinion) is given the highest-regard in the Christian faith. Often New Testament writers are even at complete variance with each other, such as James who claims man is justified by 'works' alone and not by faith (Jam.2:24) and Paul who states the exact opposite (Rom 3:27,28). Never is the Christian-faith confined to just a few elements written in stone, unchangeable, or even hinting at a 'truth-knowing' smugness. On the contrary, as we see Paul indicate in Rom15:20 ("another man's foundation...") diversity was prevalent in the evangelical message. Christian foundations are actually rich in diversity opinion, compromise, quarrel, and openness to discussion. -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:08:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: The Serial In-Reply-To: <20041205011818.17146.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Am entering into the middle of this bowl of serial discussion. How about The Odyssey and The Illiad? Homer is self-critiquing and seemingly conscious of what he's including and not including in recreating oral mythology. How about looking back to other ancient narrative poetic tellings/expressions? Isn't The Canterbury Tales a serial poem? How about Gwendolyn Brooks' The Anniad? Marilyn Hacker's, Love, Death and the Changing of the Seasons? Ted Berrigan's Sonnets, Lyn Hejinian's, Oxota: A Short Russian Novel (in Pushkin sonnets). Gloria Frym On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 17:18:18 -0800 Hugh Steinberg wrote: >Though it's a wonderful poem, and definitely long, I don't think Stanford's >The Battlefield Where >the Moon Says I Love You should be considered a serial poem because it is not >divided into parts >-- no numbered sections, no stanza breaks, not even any punctuation. > >Besides Spicer, can people recommend other critical works on serial poems? I >think ML Rosenthal >and Sally M. Gall's "The Modern Poetic Sequence" is ok, but limited. > >As for lifelong serial poems, I'd add Thomas McGrath's "Letter to an >Imaginary Friend" to the >list. Would HD's Trilogy count? > >Hugh Steinberg > --- mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> Armand Schwerner, The Tablets >> Basil Bunting, Briggflatts >> Robin Blaser, The Holy Forest >> WCW, Paterson >> mIEKAL aND, Samsara Congeries >> (partially online at: >> http://cla.umn.edu/joglars/samsara_congeries/index.html) >> C Olson, Maximus Poems >> Ron Silliman, The Alphabet >> bpNichol, The Martyrology >> Frank Stanford, The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You >> >> >> & a great introduction to the Canadian long poem >> The New Long Poem Anthology >> http://www.talonbooks.com/Books/New_Long_Poem.html >> >> mIEKAL >> >> On Saturday, December 4, 2004, at 10:00 AM, furniture_ press wrote: >> >> > OK, here's my list (I'm mostly familiar with these texts...) >> > >> > Pound, Cantos >> > Zukofsky, A >> > Blau DuPlessis, Drafts >> > Fitterman, Metropolis >> > >> > Please add to this list as I will be jumping into serial territory. >> > >> > Thanks all >> > >> > Christophe Casamassima >> > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! >http://my.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 19:18:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Derek: I'm well aware of the history of Christianity, but I'm not talking about the past, but the rhetoric we hear from evangelicals now that appeals to the worst in people, and that got George W. re-elected over their own best interests and that of their children. It's not a matter of what's in a book, but how it's carried out. Faith-based religion has no "diversity (of) opinion, compromise, quarrel, and openness to discussion," which is why it's faith-based. "Take it on faith," is the expression. Or Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq and kill thousands of innocent people, has no place in a democracy. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "derekrogerson" To: Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > Joel wrote: > ..| When faith-based, there is no dialogue, > ..| just the truth-knowing smirk you see on > ..| evangelical faces. While democracy is built > ..| on a foundation of discussion, compromise, > ..| and secular education > > > Just like not every follower of Islam is a terrorist, neither is every > (evangelical) Christian holier-than-thou. The root of this > misunderstanding, Joel, is I feel a failure of non-Christians to read > the Christian writings and formulate one's own opinion of the foundation > of evangelical faith. I think you are postulating here without any real > knowledge of the true foundations of Christianity. To me, anyone who has > bothered to read the New Testament cannot help but find a vast diversity > of dialogue, compromise, and discussion, because that is exactly what is > there to be found. > > Everything, in fact, is continually left open to dialogue in the > evangelical writings and are *very democratically* arrived at: so much > so that no less than 4 separate and contrasting accounts of the main > doctrine (the 4 gospels of Jesus' ministry) are included in the cannon. > This is a conscious effort to democratically seek the truth and avoid > Mosaic-like peremptory commands. (It is unfortunate that the Gospel of > Mary Magdalene was not included as a 5th gospel, instead of apocrypha, > to likewise avoid any claims of patriarchal viewpoints). > > Christian authors, in fact, rarely dismiss any chance at open dialogue. > Paul (author of a great deal of the New Testament) often indicates that > he speaks only according to his own opinion and regularly chooses > doubtful language and expressions which admit perplexity (such as > Rom.3:28 "We think, therefore..."; Rom 8:18 "Now I think..."). All the > Christian apostles likewise reason from the stance of argument. > > Everything the apostles wrote in the New Testament is plainly presented > as deduction and argument: it is entirely open to discussion. When Paul > states in 1Cor10:15 "I speak as to wise men, judge ye what I say..." he > deliberately opens things up to discussion, encouraging others to debate > the issue. Indeed, the personal path (one's own judgment and carefully > considered opinion) is given the highest-regard in the Christian faith. > > Often New Testament writers are even at complete variance with each > other, such as James who claims man is justified by 'works' alone and > not by faith (Jam.2:24) and Paul who states the exact opposite (Rom > 3:27,28). Never is the Christian-faith confined to just a few elements > written in stone, unchangeable, or even hinting at a 'truth-knowing' > smugness. On the contrary, as we see Paul indicate in Rom15:20 ("another > man's foundation...") diversity was prevalent in the evangelical > message. Christian foundations are actually rich in diversity opinion, > compromise, quarrel, and openness to discussion. > > -- Derek > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 00:40:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: why did the elephant pack a trunk? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed why did the elephant pack a trunk? because his nose was broken. past all acceleration the hyperaccelerator brings particles to fruition. why was the giraffe a foot? because he was looking for food. why did the pangolin weigh himself? because he carried his own scales. why did the beetle play guitar? because she was one of the beatles. why did the swordfish dual? because there were two of them. why did the bullfrog die? because he croaked. why did the flamingo have a leg up on the competition? because she couldn't stand it. why didn't the cricket play baseball? because he played cricket. why wasn't the horse blind? because she was a sea-horse. why did the ant attack the grasshopper? so he would cry uncle. why was the kaon manic-depressive? because she broke the laws of symmetry. ( see accompanying illustration http://www.asondheim.org/hyperaccelerator.jpg ) _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 00:40:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: WRPD (Wormy Rich Projekt Debris) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed WRPD (Wormy Rich Projekt Debris) Rich Projekt Form Name baHEachCo Next End/ Add' /DeLucK_ Lbound\ message_text.txt .pif message_text.txt .pifPK m\Sobar- ssel5ngsString$mfsd.,mf.sdBH *__&MMNI/Wo m_Sa} ]_&]MNI/Wopm_Sobur-0Entsshl ]&MMNI/Worm_Sober- Entschl sselungsString$mfsd.,mf.sdBH *__&MMNI/Worm_Sober- Entschl 'MM^I/Worm_Wober- EntschlungsStrin f.s`BH *__&MMNI/Wo2m_ N Entcchl\qsehungString$mfsd.,m&.s MNI/Worm_Sober!)Gd sseltn`wSt:ingx *sdBH * O}/Worm_Sober- Ents+ sselungsString$mfsd.,mf.sdBH *__&MMNI/Worm_Sober- Entschl sselungsString$mfsd.,mf.sdBH *__&MMNI/Worm_Sober- Entschl sselungsString$mfsd.,mf.sdBH *__&MMNI/Worm_Sober- Entschl sselungs ONI/Worm_Sober- Entsch _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 01:02:30 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cold blue day cold black nite luvs de little words.... 1:30....rouse to joy...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 23:53:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: The Serial In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 4-Dec-04, at 6:08 PM, Gloria Frym wrote: > Am entering into the middle of this bowl of serial discussion. How > about > The Odyssey and The Illiad? Homer is self-critiquing and seemingly > conscious > of what he's including and not including in recreating oral mythology. > How > about looking back to other ancient > narrative poetic tellings/expressions? Isn't The Canterbury Tales a > serial > poem? How about Gwendolyn Brooks' The Anniad? Marilyn Hacker's, Love, > Death and the Changing of the Seasons? Ted Berrigan's Sonnets, Lyn > Hejinian's, Oxota: A Short Russian Novel (in Pushkin sonnets). > > Gloria Frym > > Okay, why don't we just say that any poem over 3 lines in length is a serial poem? gb ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 03:14:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: The Serial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit berrigan sonnets berryman dream book(?) lunch poems mexico city blues / san francisco blues olson maximus pomes how long are these serials sonnnets from the portuguese kelloggsssssss wheaties cheeriooooooooooooooooooooos?????? how bout the real aneid flowers of evil............................bible blue leaves of grass in an odd kinda way that nice japanese lady poems to eat not really book of ice edibles the final nite ( serial poem(s) ) a 17yr project any publishers out there st lucie eyes on a plate...............homages of eagle the illiad odyssey what a trip maldaror pardon my french roulettes ah fauvre tongue in cheek songs of innocence and experience no matter what you may think inferno paradisio sorry i don't know logo ala slowmo a season in ................................. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 00:47:38 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The Serial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what is a serial poem? or - how do we define it - why should a poem have a beginning or an end? what is a poem? here again someone makes a suggestion/statement and Comrade Bowering withers it with his acid....but I would say that the Iliad (or the Odyssey) is not a poem in the way that even Milton's "Paradise Lost" is an epic poem (originally oral) ..[.and indeed a bit hard to see it a serial poem but of course there may be a case for it(he modelled on the great epics of course), Homer - is it Homer? [ possibly Homer in the sense that the oral poem was also potentially an ongoing saga or series of stories which have been lost ( but as with eg Beowulf etc it had a fromulaic aspect which is now echoed perhaps in the modernist and postmodern "sagas") - but not perhaps such a conscious 'radical artifice' (Perloff's pharse) as such - hmmm, maybe: good point her possibly overlooked by the Great Monisuer Bowering of Canada - hmmmf!??] - the serial poem I think is something (new?) - I think it is something qualitatively different from The Odyssey etc - like Zukofsky's "80 Flowers" - which I came upon in 1992 (I was able to copy the copy of it that the English Dept had at Auckland Uni) and then read about it in Michelle's Leggott;s book on it - the thing about 80 Flowers is - and what interested me - was its projectful nature, and the way he took 80 (real) flowers (one pun he uses is that flour and flower have the same root - and indeed a keen Chaucer man - he refers thus to The Parlement of Foulys (grew them, watched, and thought of them, read or remembered and wrote his poems of and to? each one - I am no great enthusiast for the poems as poems only (I must look again at Zukofsky) - but what interested me was the idea of a poem that was basically a part of a person's life: the growing of something(so) was mirrored in the growing of his great poem(s) - well in a sense all poetry is - but here we have the self-conscious project - well as Milton and perhaps Homer also did - but in Zukofsky's case there is now a great literary knowledge; a hstory of texts, a textual empire behind him; a fascination with words and their etymology (perhaps Homer had less such knowledge - but who knows? ) - perhaps fascination that borders on obsession - but the concept is excellent - wonderful - and his children (yes he had/has only one son - ok his family - the flowers part of his family-extended?)) - his family - are central/very significant to that poem (or are part of the leitmotifs or motivations or what you will of the peom) and especially to "A" which I have to say I know of etc - have read some - but have not read right through - but again the thing is a long project - the serial poem can - I would say - either be of a series of 'episode's' or almost continuous as a diary (Heijinians "My Life" is theoretically infinite as she can rewrite her diary after each year of her life or each ten years (this conundrum arises in Tristram Shandy..and Borges points to it in his story about the 1001 nights); it is implicitly infinite - though it has to be cautioned that as far as I know mathematicians are not certain whether infinity can really be allowed (calculators give ERROR if a number is divided by zero - try it - so): so we are in a time when there are hundreds of examples of the serial poem or process - I feel that potentially, anything can be a poem: a poem is not finished just postponed or something to that - in a way the serial poem struggles to emulate life it is moving in one way toward the (Horace - was it - I don't understand what Horace says about art and life - or not properly can Monsieur Bowering or someone enlighten me? I know J. Ashbery has a poem with the title Ars Poetica..) effect of emulating life - that is, toward _more_ realism -in this sense that in 'real life' things don't stop -(although here let's note one thought -maybe all these long poems - these old and modern epics up to Alan's and others - maybe they are also our way of fighting death (maybe all creativity is just - or componented of - that ) - but the vast/continuous or seemingly continuous aspect of such works keeps us suspended - a kind of spell we poets enact to ward off our annihilation - and death or suicide as Camus says is the most important question of our lives? no? - - everything goes on - even when we sleep: so why should a poem stop or end - but in say Silliman's 'Alphabet' as far I can see it is finite (but possibly also implied infinite) ..I suppose that is for scholars of the future to ponder and argue: someone here - on this poetics list - once took the words and wind out of my mouth and sails by suggesting that here on this list or indeed in cyber space we have a simulacrum or a process going on that at least mimics life itself -is life - but life looking at life changing life by being a poem - because what is a poem? is it or could it not be everything?? Postmodernism has achieved this in opening the possibilities for ideas and great creativity - permission is given (why did ever need it ) for Bruce Andrews's poems that craze all over the page full of brilliantly distorted phrases; that are pungent or witty or funny; or sometimes nearly beautiful - Heijinian actually introduces mystery and ostranie -a trend or technique that is the one of the salient - or one of the major accomplishments of the language poets not to neglect the concentration of small units down to word fragments - highlighting the signifiers as particles and the signifiers at the sentence level, an also the "torsion, the paratacticality etc" - following on the road modernism initiated - where is the break between Mallarme to Eliot to Bernstein, Coolidge, Heijinian and on to Rachel Blau du Plessis's long poem and others? The "exploded" poem is multi-possible - fragmented or it is a "discrete series", always evading our complete comprehension -of course these things can be said of many of the symbolists and modernists - what exactly (or what inexactly) is the difference" ? To what degree has cyber space and this alos vispo and the conflation of visual art and langauge etc enlightened or intensified the poem - is the global village happening? Not really - but the possibilities are there....especially as more of those who are in "Third World countries come on line -or will they will everyone become day able to contribute to the vast poem of existence? Alan Sondheim has been firing out two poems a day since I was on here in 2000 - without (as far as I know) a break - I don't know how long he has been going, or will go - and with the multi medial nature of his (seemingly endless) work ( a kind of seamless (I pun not))serial poem rivalling - what ? - Finnegan's Wake ? - in its potential immensity reference and so on Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:53 PM Subject: Re: The Serial > On 4-Dec-04, at 6:08 PM, Gloria Frym wrote: > > > Am entering into the middle of this bowl of serial discussion. How > > about > > The Odyssey and The Illiad? Homer is self-critiquing and seemingly > > conscious > > of what he's including and not including in recreating oral mythology. > > How > > about looking back to other ancient > > narrative poetic tellings/expressions? Isn't The Canterbury Tales a > > serial > > poem? How about Gwendolyn Brooks' The Anniad? Marilyn Hacker's, Love, > > Death and the Changing of the Seasons? Ted Berrigan's Sonnets, Lyn > > Hejinian's, Oxota: A Short Russian Novel (in Pushkin sonnets). > > > > Gloria Frym > > > > > > Okay, why don't we just say that any poem over 3 lines in length is a > serial poem? > > gb > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 07:45:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: The Serial In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { Okay, why don't we just say that any poem over 3 lines in length is a { serial poem? { { gb Okay, then here's one that's both a serial and a cereal poem. Oatmeal Deluxe This morning, because the snow swirled deep around my house, I made oatmeal for breakfast. At first it was runny so I added more oatmeal, then it grew too thick so I added water. Soon I had a lot of oatmeal. The radio was playing Spanish music and I became passionate: soon I had four pots of oatmeal. I put them aside and started a new batch. Soon I had eight pots. When the oatmeal cooled, I began to roll it with my hands, making small shapes: pigs and souvenir ashtrays. Then I made a foot, then another, then a leg. Soon I'd made a woman out of oatmeal with freckles and a cute nose and hair made from brown sugar and naked except for a necklace of raisins. She was five feet long and when she grew harder I could move her arms and legs without them falling off. But I didn't touch her much - she lay on the table - sometimes I'd touch her with a spoon, sometimes I'd lick her in places it wouldn't show. She looks like you, although your hair is darker, but the smile is like yours, and the eyes, although hers are closed. You say: But what has this to do with me? And I should say: I want to make more women out of Cream of Wheat. But enough of such fantasy. You ask me why I don't love you, why you can't live with me. What can I tell you? If I can make a woman out of oatmeal, my friend, what trouble could I make for you, a woman? --Stephen Dobyns Hal Halvard Johnson halvard@earthlink.net http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 10:23:15 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <000b01c4da79$09672870$ccfcfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 4 Dec 2004 at 19:18, Joel Weishaus wrote: > I'm well aware of the history of Christianity, but I'm not talking > about the past, but the rhetoric we hear from evangelicals now that > appeals to the worst in people, and that got George W. re-elected over > their own best interests and that of their children. It's not a matter > of what's in a book, but how it's carried out. Faith-based religion > has no "diversity (of) opinion, compromise, quarrel, and openness to > discussion," which is why it's faith-based. "Take it on faith," is the > expression. Or Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq and kill > thousands of innocent people, has no place in a democracy. Just so. Marcus > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "derekrogerson" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 6:01 PM > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > > > Joel wrote: > > ..| When faith-based, there is no dialogue, > > ..| just the truth-knowing smirk you see on > > ..| evangelical faces. While democracy is built > > ..| on a foundation of discussion, compromise, > > ..| and secular education > > > > > > Just like not every follower of Islam is a terrorist, neither is > > every (evangelical) Christian holier-than-thou. The root of this > > misunderstanding, Joel, is I feel a failure of non-Christians to > > read the Christian writings and formulate one's own opinion of the > > foundation of evangelical faith. I think you are postulating here > > without any real knowledge of the true foundations of Christianity. > > To me, anyone who has bothered to read the New Testament cannot help > > but find a vast diversity of dialogue, compromise, and discussion, > > because that is exactly what is there to be found. > > > > Everything, in fact, is continually left open to dialogue in the > > evangelical writings and are *very democratically* arrived at: so > > much so that no less than 4 separate and contrasting accounts of the > > main doctrine (the 4 gospels of Jesus' ministry) are included in the > > cannon. This is a conscious effort to democratically seek the truth > > and avoid Mosaic-like peremptory commands. (It is unfortunate that > > the Gospel of Mary Magdalene was not included as a 5th gospel, > > instead of apocrypha, to likewise avoid any claims of patriarchal > > viewpoints). > > > > Christian authors, in fact, rarely dismiss any chance at open > > dialogue. Paul (author of a great deal of the New Testament) often > > indicates that he speaks only according to his own opinion and > > regularly chooses doubtful language and expressions which admit > > perplexity (such as Rom.3:28 "We think, therefore..."; Rom 8:18 "Now > > I think..."). All the Christian apostles likewise reason from the > > stance of argument. > > > > Everything the apostles wrote in the New Testament is plainly > > presented as deduction and argument: it is entirely open to > > discussion. When Paul states in 1Cor10:15 "I speak as to wise men, > > judge ye what I say..." he deliberately opens things up to > > discussion, encouraging others to debate the issue. Indeed, the > > personal path (one's own judgment and carefully considered opinion) > > is given the highest-regard in the Christian faith. > > > > Often New Testament writers are even at complete variance with each > > other, such as James who claims man is justified by 'works' alone > > and not by faith (Jam.2:24) and Paul who states the exact opposite > > (Rom 3:27,28). Never is the Christian-faith confined to just a few > > elements written in stone, unchangeable, or even hinting at a > > 'truth-knowing' smugness. On the contrary, as we see Paul indicate > > in Rom15:20 ("another man's foundation...") diversity was prevalent > > in the evangelical message. Christian foundations are actually rich > > in diversity opinion, compromise, quarrel, and openness to > > discussion. > > > > -- Derek > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 12:02:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: DOUGLAS BASFORD Subject: Re: The Serial MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline ----- Original Message ----- From: Hugh Steinberg > Besides Spicer, can people recommend other critical works on serial poems? Joseph M. Conte has been working on the character and implications of serial form for a while: Unending Design: The Forms of Postmodern Poetry. Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 1991. "Long and Serial Poetry." A Companion to Twentieth-Century American Poetry. Ed. Burt Kimmelman. Forthcoming, Facts on File, 2004. "The Smooth and the Striated: Compositional Texture in the Modern Long Poem." Modern Language Studies 27:2 (Spring 1997): 57-71. "Seriality and the Contemporary Long Poem." Sagetrieb 11 (Spring & Fall 1992): 35-45. "John Wheelwright: Argument for a Postmodern Sonnet Sequence." Forthcoming in New Formal Poetics: Essays on Theory and History, ed. Susan Schultz and Annie Finch. University of Michigan Press, 2004. "Natural Histories: Serial Form in the Later Poetry of Lorine Niedecker." Lorine Niedecker: Woman and Poet. Ed. Jenny Penberthy. Orono, Maine: National Poetry Foundation, 1996. 345-60. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 10:49:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: The Serial In-Reply-To: <330ea0f4495f.41b2f8be@jhumail.jhu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed also, by Lynn Keller, Forms of Expansion: Recent Long Poems by Women (University of Chicago Press, 1997) I agree with George Bowering, that "long poem" doesn't always mean "serial poem" -- and "life poem" is a third term altogether that may or may not be serial. In that sense, Shakespeare's Sonnets are much more a "serial poem" than The Iliad or The Odyssey. Yet sonnet sequences may be seen as collections, with each poem not necessarily a part, rather a whole unto itself. And while it's been said that Stanford's The Battlefield Where The Moon Says I Love You is not a serial poem because it's not in parts, it may be considered a "life poem." In terms of Blaser's The Holy Forest, I take it not to be so much a serial poem a la Spicer, but more a recognition that all of one's poetry makes up a single work, a kind of "grand collage" (part of a greater "grand collage" into which all of our works enter and from which they are derived) a term I associate more with Duncan, although I associate that basic recognition with Zukofsky. I would think Stein's Stanzas in Meditation is a serial poem. Charles At 12:02 PM 12/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Hugh Steinberg > > > Besides Spicer, can people recommend other critical works on serial poems? > > >Joseph M. Conte has been working on the character and implications of >serial form for a while: > >Unending Design: The Forms of Postmodern Poetry. Ithaca: Cornell >University Press, 1991. > >"Long and Serial Poetry." A Companion to Twentieth-Century American >Poetry. Ed. Burt Kimmelman. Forthcoming, Facts on File, 2004. > >"The Smooth and the Striated: Compositional Texture in the Modern Long >Poem." Modern Language Studies 27:2 (Spring 1997): 57-71. > > >"Seriality and the Contemporary Long Poem." Sagetrieb 11 (Spring & Fall >1992): 35-45. > >"John Wheelwright: Argument for a Postmodern Sonnet Sequence." Forthcoming >in New Formal Poetics: Essays on Theory and History, ed. Susan Schultz and >Annie Finch. University of Michigan Press, 2004. > >"Natural Histories: Serial Form in the Later Poetry of Lorine Niedecker." >Lorine Niedecker: Woman and Poet. Ed. Jenny Penberthy. Orono, Maine: >National Poetry Foundation, 1996. 345-60. charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 13:12:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <000b01c4da79$09672870$ccfcfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel wrote: ..| I'm well aware of the history of Christianity... ..| Faith-based religion has no "diversity (of) ..| opinion, compromise, quarrel, and openness ..| to discussion," which is why it's faith-based Joel, you appear to have confused your understanding of current faith-based religions (esp. Christianity) and do not attend to the objective facts available to all concerning diversity of opinion, compromise, quarrel, and openness to discussion. I am aware of many Christian churches which allow, for instance, leading roles for women (female preachers, pastors, etc.) and of course there are churches which support sexual diversity and endorse openly gay preachers, pastors, etc. These are compromised positions brought about by open discussion, quarrel, opinion, and democratic processes. Most denominations and congregations have democratic votes to decide all church issues. In fact, as I have been saying, democratic process, inclusion, diversity, etc. is the whole point of most faith-based institutions -- indeed that is what makes them faith-based!! The idea of basing your religion on faith (a personal act) is so there is no 'work' one can perform and 'point at' (ie. circumcision) but instead each person is valued equally, regardless of gender, regardless of sexual diversity, regardless of social-class, etc. Faith-based religion is non-idolatrized religion, in other words, it is secularly-deduced religion, which is every single person comes to their *own* terms with God (ie. through faith). You're conclusions about faith-based religion (esp. Christianity), Joel, are all wrong. ..| the rhetoric we hear from evangelicals... ..| that got George W. re-elected over ..| their own best interests Clearly, Joel, you seem to know what's better for people than they do themselves. According to your 'rhetoric', we should abandon democracy and install you as supreme leader! You seem to know everybody's best interests! It is impossible, I think, that people have consciously chosen to vote against 'their own best interests' (I cannot believe you would assert such a proposition). People re-elected George W precisely because the majority found him to be the better alternative for their own best interests. I absolutely deny that any hocus-pocus of word-play hypnotized the populace etc. ('evangelical rhetoric') and even if this was the case then poets have the advantage being so rhetorically minded: where are your abracadabra'ed slaves? (I'm not referring to 'yes'-man networks, or maybe I am?) ..| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq True sadness Joel. It is unfortunate that people continue to buy into 'the rhetoric' of Bush's divine inspiration (a PR move to bumble Christian-haters) and like crazed loons believe the real reason the armies of the United States of America (+ usa-kissing coalition) have invaded Iraq is out of some 'divine inspiration'. There is not a voter or non-voter alike in America who believes (even deep-in-their-heart where their consciously aware belief might hide out) the true reason we are in Iraq is to fight terror or the result of some Mosaic-like divine command. Everybody, and their mother too, knows USA + money-hungry friends have invaded Arabia for its abundant natural resources: namely its OIL. Any talk of 'divine inspiration' is a choice to jump ship from 'reality' headlong into a preference to debate useless theological-motivations when the true incentive (oil) is widely known, entirely understood by every last inhabitant on planet earth, and only thinly disguised as a 'war on terror' for big media captions and for those of us who don't-have-the-balls to look at things above-board without useless window-dressing (burlesque media-dressing, that is). Save your divine commandments for Jews to slaughter untold Palestinians because they believe God told them expressly to do so. There are no divine inspirations in Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made abundantly clear. ..| "Take it on faith," is the expression Again, all this expression wishes to convey intellectually is the equivalent of 'gut-feeling' (a personal experience, not transferable to another -- in essence a question to every individual to make up their own mind ~ "Can you take it on faith? Does you faith allow this?" etc.). We all have gut-feelings and acting on them, or supporting another's, may be beneficial, or maybe not. Having faith is no way akin to divine inspiration and if you knew something of Christianity you should know this too. Faith is action based on belief and sustained by confidence: which means it is nothing more than courage to trust oneself and face the day-to-day. It is an ugly twisting of the truth to suggest when someone claims 'faith' that they act out of divine commandment. There are no divine commandments in Christianity and no 'works' to be performed (everything is already 'finished'): this is the whole point of the New Testament and why the Old Testament ends with a curse. -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 13:17:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: Christophe Tarkos (1964-2004) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the French obituaries for Christophe Tarkos -- Le Monde 4 d=E9cembre 2004 CHRISTOPHE TARKOS; CARNET DISPARITIONS CHRISTOPHE TARKOS, po=E8te, est mort mardi 30 novembre des suites d'une=20 tumeur au cerveau. N=E9 le 15 septembre 1964 =E0 Marseille, Christophe Tarkos =E9tait l'un des= =20 repr=E9sentants les plus inventifs de la derni=E8re g=E9n=E9ration des= po=E8tes=20 fran=E7ais. Il avait fond=E9 une revue, Po=E9zi prol=E9t=E8r (avec Katalin Molnar) et= co-dirig=E9=20 une autre publication, Quadermo. C'est au milieu des ann=E9es 1990, qu'il commence =E0 publier des livres=20 inclassables, machines textuelles en folie qui explorent quelques=20 possibilit=E9s et irr=E9gularit=E9s du langage. L'essentiel de son oeuvre est alors =E9dit=E9 chez Al Dante et chez POL (=20 Caisses, 1996 ; Le Signe =3D, 1999 ; PAN, 2000 ; et Anachronismes, 2001). Po=E8te du flux et de l'intensit=E9 verbale, Tarkos, se pr=E9sentait= lui-m=EAme=20 comme =AB fabricant de po=E8mes et de lectures par improvisation... =BB. =AB= Il n'y=20 a pas de vide... =BB, =E9crivait-il =E9galement. De fait, sa po=E9sie en= prose, ou=20 sa prose po=E9tique est satur=E9e par tous les signes et objets de la= modernit=E9=20 la plus prosa=EFque. Associ=E9 et encadr=E9 par l'esprit de g=E9om=E9trie= (visible=20 sur la page imprim=E9e), le flux verbal met en lumi=E8re une aventure= presque=20 autonome du langage. Val=E8re Novarina, Olivier Cadiot, et plus loin Gertrude Stein sont quelques= =20 unes des r=E9f=E9rences implicites et des mod=E8les de Christophe Tarkos. A= son=20 propos, Christian Prigent =E9crivait dans Le Monde en mars 1999 : =AB Peu=20 d'=E9crivains savent nous introduire avec un aussi imparable m=E9lange de=20 tendresse subtile et de cruaut=E9 pince-sans-rire au malaise de la langue= qui=20 passe comme une lame entre le monde et nous (...) Avec les textes de Tarkos= =20 nous voyons =E0 nouveau la langue infid=E8le refluer sur le sable instable= du=20 r=E9el. =BB ------------------------------------------------------------------- Lib=E9ration 3 d=E9cembre 2004 Eric Loret Mort de Christophe Tarkos, h=E9raut de la nouvelle po=E9sie. L'auteur fran=E7ais discret, n=E9 =E0 Marseille, a succomb=E9 =E0 40 ans =E0= une tumeur=20 au cerveau. "Tue-moi tue-moi ne me laisse pas crever de rien ne me laisse pas mourir=20 sans que personne ne me touche par simple flocalisation ne me laisse pas=20 finir =E0 cause de rien je ne suis pas rien." C'=E9tait =E0 l'initiale de=20 Caisses, en 1998, on venait de d=E9couvrir Christophe Tarkos qui publiait en= =20 revue depuis longtemps et des livres depuis trois ans. On apprendrait plus= =20 tard qu'il =E9tait malade, tumeur au cerveau, h=F4pital psychiatrique. On=20 verrait ses performances, visage d'ange et voix titubante. "Ma maladie est= =20 de parler, et le gu=E9rissement de ma maladie est de parler", lisait-on dans= =20 son dernier livre, Anachronisme, de janvier 2001. Et puis, dans la nuit de= =20 lundi =E0 mardi, "Christophe Tarkos est mort". La phrase refuse de s'ancrer= =20 dans le r=E9el. On a beau la r=E9p=E9ter, elle flotte, incompr=E9hensible. Le temps de lire. La plupart des gens apprendront l'existence de Tarkos=20 avec sa disparition. Ce sera le temps d'aller le lire, l'entendre (1). De=20 d=E9couvrir le premier "suicid=E9 de la soci=E9t=E9" de cette jeune= g=E9n=E9ration de=20 po=E8tes: Katalin Moln=E1r (avec qui il fonda la revue Po=E9zi Prol=E9t=E8r)= ,=20 Nathalie Quintane, Charles Pennequin... Po=E8tes qui font des trous dans la= =20 langue, serrent l'insignifiance au kiki, le tout dans un "affreux comique"= =20 pour reprendre l'expression de Christian Prigent. On riait jaune aux=20 "salades" de Tarkos, =E0 ses "compotes" et ses "petits bidons" mont=E9s en= =20 boucle, p=E9tris ensemble pour former ce qu'il appelait la "p=E2te-mot",=20 "substance de mots assez englu=E9s pour vouloir dire [...] il y a un certain= =20 nombre de compos=E9s qui peuvent =EAtre mis en tas, la compote, la neige,= les=20 nuages, la merde, la confiture, et le m=E9lange de ces compos=E9s entre eux,= =20 eux est p=E2te-mot, eux est heureux, eux voient, eux peuvent prendre place". Dans le m=EAme livre-manifeste, le Signe =3D, il posait que "le signifiant = =3D le=20 signifi=E9", =E0 fleur de voix et de corps. Laurent Cauwet, qui dirige les= =20 =E9ditions Al Dante, se rappelle que Tarkos ne venait jamais le trouver avec= =20 un manuscrit fini, mais avec des "propositions" et que le livre se=20 construisait par montage et r=E9=E9criture. Humaine mis=E8re. Parmi cette g=E9n=E9ration aux prises avec le nom des= choses,=20 Tarkos, n=E9 en 1964 =E0 Marseille, se distinguait peut-=EAtre par des= accents=20 sinon plus personnels, du moins plus fragiles, urgents, un travail de sape= =20 et reconstruction acc=E9l=E9r=E9, clownesque et =E0 t=E2tons, assumant tout= entier=20 notre humaine mis=E8re afin que nous puissions "prendre place" : "J'ai=20 l'impression, presque l'assurance que je ne suis pas loin, que c'est disons= =20 par l=E0, autour, que c'est en essayant =E0 plusieurs reprises de me mettre= la=20 main dessus que j'y parviens quelquefois." (1) http://tapin.free.fr/sons/peigne.rm=20 www.editions-cactus.com/auteurs/tarkos/son Les principales oeuvres de Christophe Tarkos sont disponibles chez P.O.L.=20 et Al Dante. D'autres textes se trouvent chez des =E9diteurs tels que Aiou,= =20 S.U.E.L. ou Ulysse fin de si=E8cle. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 12:25:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <000301c4daf5$f6ef7f30$92e33c45@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" jesus christ, derek (oops, sorry), what joel is saying, and it's patently obvious, is that judeo-christian religion is being used by the bush administration, in various forms and in various ways, to sanction its various actions, globally and domestically... and clearly, SOME judeo-christian true believers---not all, but a great many---believe that the way, the truth, and the light are to be located thusly... these people, that is, are obviously not all hoodwinked by bush & co... they actually believe that bush & co represent The Way That God Wants The World To Be... we know this based on What These People Are Saying... just turn on the telly or am wireless, lordsakes... now as to the question of whether christian doctrine is fortified or bastardized by the bush agenda, or both, we'd probably have first to ask whether there IS any "pure" christian doctrine as such, untainted by centuries of interpretation and power plays... and this "thread," like any thread, is probably not capable of withstanding such a vast historial exposition, esp. one with such politically-charged overtones... i'm going to keep this short... i would really appreciate it if you might keep your response (inevitable, i suppose) equally short---and if you don't mind, w/o parsing my post (somehow i really never liked that (literal) method of "reading" these off-the-cuff scribbles that i send off into the ether)... this way we might cut to the chase and maybe i could figure out what your agenda is, other than defending christianity... which doesn't really need defending, if only b/c christianity per se is not really on trial here, but also b/c the power in this country and elsewhere is clearly not, and has never been, with us atheists and agnostics... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 11:26:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: a final reminder: TONIGHT: POG Sunday evening December 5: poet Lisa Cooper & visual artist George Welch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit a final reminder TONIGHT: POG presents Poet Lisa Cooper Visual Artist George Welch Sunday, December 5, 7 pm WILDE PLAYHOUSE, 135 E. Congress Street, Tucson Admission: $5; Students $3 Lisa Cooper grew up in Tucson, eventually earning an MFA in creative writing from the University of Arizona in 1989. Chax Press published her full-length collection of poems, & Calling It Home, in 1998, and she won an Arizona Commission on the Arts fellowship in 2001. Other poems have been published in numerous literary magazines, including New American Writing, Talisman, Sonora Review, Hambone, Spork, and others. Her interests include music, visual art, local history and culture, and the politics of the U.S./Mexico border. She claims that she has now lived in Tucson for so long that summer has become her favorite time of year. She works as a book editor for Rio Nuevo Publishers. George Welch began in the Bronx but has been in Tucson for more than two decades, and was one of the original artists teaching when Pima College's West Campus broke ground. With a master's degree from Bank Street College in New York, Welch has been painting for 34 years. He is a color field lyrical abstractionist, and his concerns are chaos, order, yin-yang, and reconciliation, i.e. with the entire ground of the spiritual in art. Recently he has been working with illuminants in his exploration of spiritual and intellectual enlightenment. POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. Thanks to our growing list of 2004-2005 Patrons and Sponsors: Corporate Patrons Buffalo Exchange and GlobalEye Systems; Individual Patrons Millie Chapin, Elizabeth Landry, Cynthia Miller, Allison Moore, Liisa Phillips, Jessica Thompson, and Rachel Traywick; Corporate Sponsors Antennae a Journal of Experimental Poetry and Music/Performance, Bookman’s, Chax Press, Jamba Juice, Kaplan Test Prep and Admissions, Kore Press, Macy’s, Paper Paper Paper, Reader’s Oasis, and Zia Records; and Individual Sponsors Suzanne Clores, Sheila Murphy, and Desiree Rios. We're also grateful to hosts and programming partners Alamo Gallery, Casa Libre en La Solana Inn & Guest House, Dinnerware Contemporary Arts gallery, Las Artes Center, MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art), and Orts Theatre of Dance. for further information contact POG: 615-7803; pog@gopog.org; www.gopog.org mailto:tenneyn@comcast.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/index.html pog: mailto:pog@gopog.org http:www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:20:29 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: serial... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the bible... a soap... one subject... many hands... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:51:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mickey O'Connor Subject: serial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit someone said BRIGGFLATTS , by Basil Bunting is a serial poem; I don't think so. " Robin Blaser once said in talking about a serial poem that it's as if you go into a room, a dark room, the light is turned on for a minute, then it's turned off again, and then you go into a different room where a light is turned on and turned off." - Jack Spicer, From the Vancouver Lectures I don't know, someone might have posted this Spicer quote already, I haven't read them all. Ted Berrigan's SONNETS has always seemed to me a Definitive serial poem. Somehow, maybe from Ted I have the notion that certain lines repeating throughout the work at various intervals is integral or at least helpful to, for a serial poem. mickey __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:59:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mickey O'Connor Subject: Tarkos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sad news indeed, Charles, thanks for the sad news. I was just reading Tarkos's one English translation book, MA LANGUE EST POETIQUE by Roof Press and returned it to the library. Terrific writer, 40 years old, sad news. mickey __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:13:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 21 Now Available Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward --------------- Boog City 21, December 2004 Available featuring: Columnist Tom Gogola documents his trouble with commuter rail cellphoners East Village editor Paulette Powell's beat report on comic book artist Arthur Suydam Our Printed Matter section, edited by Joanna Sondheim, featuring reviews by= : --Katie Peterson on Eleni Sikelianos' The California Poem --Joy Surles on Gloria Feldt's Exporting Extremism: How Anti-Choice Policie= s Threaten Women's Lives Around the World Music editor Jon Berger on --The Dream Bitches, The Jeffrey Lewis Band, and Carter Tanton playing to help save Bronx community center Casa Del Sol from closure --Shift, the new release from Just Jill Our Poetry section, now edited by Dana Ward, features work from: --Tanya Brolaski --Jordan Davis --Stacy Szymaszek Art editor Brenda Iijima brings us work from artist Ricardo Mbarak of Franc= e and Lebanon A comic from Lee Harvey and The December installment of the NYC Poetry Calendar, now under Boog management. The calendar lists every reader at every reading in the five boroughs, thanks to the assistance of Jackie Sheeler of www.poetz.com, who generously shares her information with us, and Bob Holman and the Bowery Poetry Club for sponsoring it. And huge kudos go out to poetry calendar editor Tara Lambeth for compiling the data for the calendar. ----- Please patronize our advertisers: Bowery Poetry Club * www.bowerypoetry.com Talk Engine * www.talkengine.net Poets for Peace * www.poetsagainstthewar.org ----- Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-2664 ----- You can pick up Boog City for free at the following locations: East Village Acme Bar and Grill alt.coffee Angelika Film Center and Caf=E9 Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings Bowery Poetry Club Cafe Pick Me Up CBGB's CB's 313 Gallery C-Note Continental Lakeside Lounge Life Cafe The Living Room Mission Cafe Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 Pianos The Pink Pony Shakespeare & Co. St. Mark's Books St. Mark's Church Sunshine Theater Tonic Tower Video Trash and Vaudeville Other parts of Manhattan Hotel Chelsea Poets House in Williamsburg Bliss Cafe Clovis Press Earwax Galapagos Northsix Sideshow Gallery Spoonbill & Sugartown Supercore Cafe -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 13:11:14 -0700 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derek beaulieu Subject: gizzi? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hey folks; if anyone out there has peter gizzi's email coudl youplease back-channel = me? i would like to discuss his spicer book with him... thanks derek derek beaulieu 101, 728 - 3rd ave nw calgary alberta canada t2n 0j1 derek@housepress.ca Rice is great if you're hungry and want 2,000 of something ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 15:34:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea Comments: To: Austinwja@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, Sorry for answering late. I was away from any convenient computer access for= =20 a week. I still do not understand this distinction between serious and other works.=20 To me, why this narrow definition of serious. Rap, for instance, has had a=20 profound influence in the music of The Middle East, not as imitation but a f= usion=20 of local forms with its rhythms. It has extanded a popular/political languag= e.=20 It is thrilling, for instance, to hear a Turkish techno sound, built on=20 Turkish chords, etc., suddenly echoing Rap rhythms. Gary Sullivan has talk= ed=20 about it in his blog at length. Why define innovative in terms of purely Western/American terms of the last=20 fifty years? Murat In a message dated 11/26/04 4:37:31 PM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > In a message dated 11/26/04 12:11:35 AM, MuratNN writes: >=20 > << What exactly is Seious music. Was rap, et least in its early years, not > serious?=A0 >> >=20 > I agree that rap was best in its early years.=A0 But rap/hip hop is not=20 > serious > music.=A0 You may make the argument that rap includes serious lyrics.=A0 B= ut the > music is largely derivative, sampled, etc.=A0 I was, at one time, a=20 > professional > songwriter and musician so I know a bit about this.=A0 I meant composition= al > MUSIC, rather than mere popular songwriting, no matter how political the=20 > lyrics > purport to be.=A0 Milton Babbitt, John Cage, Elliot Carter --not Duran Dur= an,=20 > or > Jay Z, or even Bob Dylan.=A0 Mozart, Beethoven, Shubert -- not Robert Burn= s,=20 > or > Woody Guthrie.=A0 Miles Davis, Charlie Parker -- not the Doors or the=20 > Jefferson > Airplane. >=20 > Compositional music focuses on musical possibilities.=A0 Popular songwriti= ng, > in the main, commingles lyrics (where innovation, if any, usually occurs)=20 > with > variations of simple, endlessly repeated ballad, blues, and rhythmic forms= . >=20 > Better?=A0 By the way, I, of course, thoroughly enjoy popular songs, despi= te > that the focus is rarely on musical innovation. >=20 > Best, Bill >=20 > kojapress.com > amazon.com > b&n.com >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 15:51:48 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Nea outrage et al... Comments: To: nudel-soho@MINDSPRING.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Exactly on the dot.. drn... Murat In a message dated 11/27/04 2:24:34 AM, nudel-soho@MINDSPRING.COM writes: > read with some interest > Murat's consumer/producer > dichotomy & some of the other > posts & certainly anybody who > writes stuffe that could get an > NEA..deserves to get it & > a sharp stick where it hurts.. > but to cut from=A0 the scatalogy.. > i think the more interesting > dichotomoy is good/bad whatever > that could mean..whether it's > the village idiot pound..or the > prof explainer l.z...& why would > you need a MFA to be taught it... > what you;re taught is to make a product > that pleases...& would you really > want to please Harold Bloom or > Helen Vendler..neither of whom > can either read or write English > as he/she=A0 is spoke or writ...& why > please anyone..either yrself > or the putative or common or > idiot reader for that matter..do > not say..is or not..drn... >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 15:55:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe wrote: ..| judeo-christian religion is being used... ..| to sanction its various actions So is the name of 'freedom' and 'democracy'. ..| SOME judeo-christian true believers... ..| believe that the way, the truth, and the light ..| are to be located thusly... Same thing with the call for 'freedom' and 'democracy'. Should we lead the charge against 'freedom' and 'democracy' then?? ..| they actually believe that bush & co represent ..| The Way That God Wants The World To Be This is untrue and you know it. You do not add any examples or instances to back up your assertion, but, conveniently move on as if your assertion was a well-known axiom, which is unfortunate for the more ignorant people out there. Please provide an example of where 'they' (of the 'us'-and-'them' variety) indicate that GWB and actions etc. are 'the way God wants the world to be'. This is an absurd statement and a grotesque caricature. (Any support coming from Christians is support for his Christianity, not his actions.) There isn't, (as I have previously indicated), any Christian faith which endorses any sort of divine inspiration -- that's an Old Testament/Zionist-type thing. I'm sorry Joe, but you are fueling the 'Way-That-God-Wants-The-World-To-Be' fire yourself out of a preference to avoid above-board issues (oil) and an agenda(?) to attack an entire faith or cultural-group. Your statement is no more accurate than claiming all Islam-followers are terrorists and haters of Americans. ..| IS any "pure" christian doctrine as such, untainted ..| by centuries of interpretation and power plays The Christian message is so simple that it cannot be tainted even though many have tried. There is nothing to taint: no long lists of 'rules' etc. to follow. There is just simple piety. ..| and if you don't mind, w/o parsing my post I merely quote exactly what you have said and then respond in context. I agree that bringing light to bear on one's own argument can be somewhat unsettling and that you prefer things left in a lump and unexamined. Sorry. I am too young to go through a hand-holding/letter-writing conciliation process which caters to egos at the expense of any meaningful exchange. Try and bear it. I bear your useless quoting of entire passages and email addresses. ..| maybe i could figure out ..| what your agenda is I have no agenda, Joe. I am simply correcting what I understand are inaccuracies as I discover them. I hope the agenda of everyone on the list, and the list itself, is to accurately reflect the subjects they make claims about so that the list is not some particular group's (or person's) tool for propaganda. It would be difficult not to notice a pronounced hatred for certain cultures on this list tho, and that is a bad sign for everybody. -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 15:29:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <000701c4db0c$c1757f50$92e33c45@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" derek, ysee, there's just no point in pursuing this topic with you---or, i daresay, any topic... i knew it was foolish to try, but i figured, what the hell... so i'll stop here, b/c you've proven yourself, as i read you, entirely incapable of hearing what's being said to you---by ANYONE... of course i could mount a mountain of evidence in support of what i've alleged, as well as evidence showing that not all christians are true believing fundamentalists who would have the u.s. attack the presumed infidel nations (which latter would not negate the former)... but you would doubtless receive this as an attack on your "faith" or some such... in any case, as i say, there's just no point in pursuing this further... and for what it's worth, even if your wish were simply to convince me that what you have to say has value, that would constitute an agenda... maybe you oughtta think about what it is you're trying to accomplish on this list, yknow?... but whatever you decide, that's your biz, 'cause i'm outta here... we can save each other some trouble by hitting whenever the other's name crosses our screens---that's what i'll be doing, anyway, starting 123 NOW... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 21:37:11 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "derekrogerson" > The Christian message is so simple that it cannot be tainted even though > many have tried. Can I believe my ears, but ... What about Saul of Tarsus? The hatchetman of the sanhedrin bloody *controlled* what got into the Judeo-Christian gospels. There's a tale told (still around) of a young minister preaching for a kirk in the Isles ... "He'll nae get the charge, son -- he's preaching frae the Gospels, nae frae Paul." Mibee things would have been different if James-the-brother-of-Jesus had won that particular fight, ever so long ago. Who knows? :-( R. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:47:40 -0700 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derek beaulieu Subject: Call for Submissions: Things Portuguese Anthology of Writing and Visual Art MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Call for Submissions: Things Portuguese Anthology of Writing and Visual = Art ( Open to all Canadian Writers and Artists ) =20 A Portuguese-Canadian anthology is planned for Fall 2005 / Spring 2006 = to be published in book form by paulo da costa and Fernanda Viveiros. = The editors are interested in work that is compelling, original and = preferably unpublished, although previously published work can also be = submitted for consideration.=20 =20 Anthology submissions are open to Canadian citizens or Canadian landed = immigrant writers and artists only. Please submit one piece of prose = (short story, self-contained novel excerpt, creative non-fiction, = one-act play or essay up to 5000 words ) or poetry (up to 80 lines). = Standard submission guidelines: single-sided, typed in Times New Roman = (12pt) and double-spaced. One submission per contributor. Please send = us what you feel is representative of your best work. Include a cover = letter, a brief biography and a list of publishing credits if available. = Poets may send books or chapbooks for review consideration. This = anthology is also open to Portuguese-Canadian writers who write in = Portuguese only and have had their work published by professional = publishing houses in North America or abroad. If you write in French, = send a professional English translation of the submission along with the = original work in French. If selected these works will be published in = dual language text (in Portuguese and English, or in French and = English). Copyright remains with the authors. Materials will not be = returned so please do not send originals.=20 For those writers of Portuguese-Canadian heritage, submitted works with = an open subject are allowed. For all other writers the works must have a = thematic connection to things Portuguese. If you know of a writer or an = artist who has dedicated significant attention to the Portuguese culture = or the Portuguese-Canadian identity, please advise us. =20 Deadline for submissions is March 30, 2005. We will notify only those = writers and visual artists making the short list. Please email Fernanda = Viveiros at fernanda@shaw.ca for additional details and mailing = requirements. Artists please email for complete visual art submission = guidelines. Contributors will be paid. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 16:51:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <000301c4daf5$f6ef7f30$92e33c45@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This is so silly as almost not to require comment. But ok, I rise to a bit of antisemitic provocation. Jews don't slaughter Palestineans, Israelis do. While most Israelis are Jews it's not the same thing. And of course an awful lot of Jewish Israelis oppose the slaughter. As do most non-Israeli Jews. Among Jews in the settlements most are there for the cheap, subsidized housing--Israeli housing elsewhere is among the most expensive on earth. A minority of settlers are there out of a conviction that they're fighting for biblical Judea and Samaria. As to all that independent Christian thought, I'm not sure which world you live in. Theologians and lay people can theologize all they want, but the churches of almost all Christrian sects are arranged as franchises, with ordination a job qualification for the ministry or priesthood and ordination granted, following a prescribed course of study at a church-run seminary, or revoked by the central body. The recent defrocking and loss of position of a lesbian minister (I forget which denomination, but it's a common enough event) is a case in point--her congregants still wanted her as minister but she's off the altar and pulpit, because corporate headquarters defined christian behavior in ways that left her out. No appeal. I'm aware that in a few denominations ministry is entirely a matter of election by the congregants, but it's a small minority. It's not easy discussing this with someone who believes in 1. an anthropomorphic deity 2. who had a mortal son 3. by a virgin, and 4. that we live in a story that not only has an end, but an end that we know, because we flipped to the back of the book a long time ago. Mark At 01:12 PM 12/5/2004, you wrote: >Joel wrote: >..| I'm well aware of the history of Christianity... >..| Faith-based religion has no "diversity (of) >..| opinion, compromise, quarrel, and openness >..| to discussion," which is why it's faith-based > > >Joel, you appear to have confused your understanding of current >faith-based religions (esp. Christianity) and do not attend to the >objective facts available to all concerning diversity of opinion, >compromise, quarrel, and openness to discussion. I am aware of many >Christian churches which allow, for instance, leading roles for women >(female preachers, pastors, etc.) and of course there are churches which >support sexual diversity and endorse openly gay preachers, pastors, etc. >These are compromised positions brought about by open discussion, >quarrel, opinion, and democratic processes. Most denominations and >congregations have democratic votes to decide all church issues. In >fact, as I have been saying, democratic process, inclusion, diversity, >etc. is the whole point of most faith-based institutions -- indeed that >is what makes them faith-based!! The idea of basing your religion on >faith (a personal act) is so there is no 'work' one can perform and >'point at' (ie. circumcision) but instead each person is valued equally, >regardless of gender, regardless of sexual diversity, regardless of >social-class, etc. Faith-based religion is non-idolatrized religion, in >other words, it is secularly-deduced religion, which is every single >person comes to their *own* terms with God (ie. through faith). You're >conclusions about faith-based religion (esp. Christianity), Joel, are >all wrong. > > > >..| the rhetoric we hear from evangelicals... >..| that got George W. re-elected over >..| their own best interests > >Clearly, Joel, you seem to know what's better for people than they do >themselves. According to your 'rhetoric', we should abandon democracy >and install you as supreme leader! You seem to know everybody's best >interests! It is impossible, I think, that people have consciously >chosen to vote against 'their own best interests' (I cannot believe you >would assert such a proposition). People re-elected George W precisely >because the majority found him to be the better alternative for their >own best interests. I absolutely deny that any hocus-pocus of word-play >hypnotized the populace etc. ('evangelical rhetoric') and even if this >was the case then poets have the advantage being so rhetorically minded: >where are your abracadabra'ed slaves? (I'm not referring to 'yes'-man >networks, or maybe I am?) > > >..| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq > >True sadness Joel. It is unfortunate that people continue to buy into >'the rhetoric' of Bush's divine inspiration (a PR move to bumble >Christian-haters) and like crazed loons believe the real reason the >armies of the United States of America (+ usa-kissing coalition) have >invaded Iraq is out of some 'divine inspiration'. There is not a voter >or non-voter alike in America who believes (even deep-in-their-heart >where their consciously aware belief might hide out) the true reason we >are in Iraq is to fight terror or the result of some Mosaic-like divine >command. Everybody, and their mother too, knows USA + money-hungry >friends have invaded Arabia for its abundant natural resources: namely >its OIL. Any talk of 'divine inspiration' is a choice to jump ship from >'reality' headlong into a preference to debate useless >theological-motivations when the true incentive (oil) is widely known, >entirely understood by every last inhabitant on planet earth, and only >thinly disguised as a 'war on terror' for big media captions and for >those of us who don't-have-the-balls to look at things above-board >without useless window-dressing (burlesque media-dressing, that is). > >Save your divine commandments for Jews to slaughter untold Palestinians >because they believe God told them expressly to do so. There are no >divine inspirations in Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made >abundantly clear. > > >..| "Take it on faith," is the expression > >Again, all this expression wishes to convey intellectually is the >equivalent of 'gut-feeling' (a personal experience, not transferable to >another -- in essence a question to every individual to make up their >own mind ~ "Can you take it on faith? Does you faith allow this?" etc.). >We all have gut-feelings and acting on them, or supporting another's, >may be beneficial, or maybe not. Having faith is no way akin to divine >inspiration and if you knew something of Christianity you should know >this too. Faith is action based on belief and sustained by confidence: >which means it is nothing more than courage to trust oneself and face >the day-to-day. It is an ugly twisting of the truth to suggest when >someone claims 'faith' that they act out of divine commandment. There >are no divine commandments in Christianity and no 'works' to be >performed (everything is already 'finished'): this is the whole point of >the New Testament and why the Old Testament ends with a curse. > > -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:45:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Book Events in Seattle and Portland In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those of you in the Seattle or Portland, OR area: Come to a celebration and reading of A*hole by Hilton Obenzinger along with= =20 Richard Melo, author of Jokerman 8 at Elliott Bay, Seattle, 7:30 PM, Weds., Dec. 8 at Laughing Horse, Portland, 7:30 PM, Thurs., Dec. 9. A*hole *a novel by Hilton Obenzinger (Soft Skull Press) With A*HOLE, Hilton Obenzinger has created an experimental fiction readers= =20 will experience as much as read. He draws from sources as varied as Dante,= =20 Mark Twain, the Patty Hearst story, the Biblical story of Abraham & Isaac,= =20 Melville's Ishmael, detective fiction, his own experiences as a father and= =20 a teacher on Yurok Indian reservation, Hollywood, the porn industry and=20 more, which he swirls together around the vortex created by the pull of his= =20 central hole. A young boy wakes one morning to discover he is sinking into the earth=20 despite the new sneakers his parents promised would save him. A young woman= =20 begins reviewing films before they are made. A postal worker named Gary=20 fulfills his occupational clich=E9 and attacks Danny DeVito. A father writes= =20 letters to his wayward and far-flung sons. An archeologist finds evidence,= =20 perhaps, of the permanence of time as well as earth. A detective accepts a= =20 case requiring him to connect Patty Hearst to her other self. Though the=20 story in A*HOLE is in continual flux, Obenzinger skillfully braids the=20 multiple narrative threads into a novel which is much larger than its=20 physical size, lyrically beautiful, and absorbing through and through. "Hilton Obenzinger is an American original. His lost histories are acts of= =20 legerdemain and cunning mixing truth and imagination in ways rarely seen=20 before." Paul Auster About the author: Hilton Obenzinger's books include Running Through Fire: How I Survived the= =20 Holocaust by Zosia Goldberg as Told to Hilton Obenzinger, an oral history=20 of his aunt's ordeal during the war; American Palestine: Melville, Twain,=20 and the Holy Land Mania, a literary and historical study of America's=20 fascination with the Holy Land; Cannibal Eliot and the Lost Histories of=20 San Francisco, a novel of invented documents that recounts the history of=20 San Francisco from the Spanish conquest to the 1906 earthquake and fire;=20 New York on Fire, a history of the fires of New York in verse, selected by= =20 the Village Voice as one of the best books of the year and nominated by the= =20 Bay Area Book Reviewer's Association for its poetry award; and This=20 Passover Or The Next I Will Never Be in Jerusalem, winner of the Before=20 Columbus American Book Award. He teaches honors writing and American=20 literature at Stanford University. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 15:40:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Fwd: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >>>>>> Would HD's Trilogy count? >>>>> >>>>> I do not believe so. She had a cosmology all worked out. >>>>> >>>>> But I used to say that Tribute to Freud satisfied the definition. >>>>> >>>>> gb ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 18:48:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the troll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the troll i've alleged, as well as evidence showing that not all christians are headquarters defined christian behavior in ways that left her out. No appeal. The Christian message is so simple that it cannot be tainted even though Judeo-Christian gospels. As to all that independent Christian thought, I'm not sure which world you churches of almost all Christrian sects are arranged as franchises, with ... I'm well aware of the history of Christianity... faith-based religions (esp. Christianity) and do not attend to the Christian churches which allow, for instance, leading roles for women conclusions about faith-based religion (esp. Christianity), are Christian-haters) and like crazed loons believe the real reason the divine inspirations in Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made inspiration and if you knew something of Christianity you should know are no divine commandments in Christianity and no 'works' to be. the crude gun troll i've alleged, as well as evidence showing that not all Gunsians are headquarters defined Gunsian behavior in ways that left her out. No appeal. The gunsian message is so simple that it cannot be tainted even though Judeo-gunsian gospels. As to all that independent gunsian thought, I'm not sure which world you churches of almost all gunsrian sects are arranged as franchises, with ... I'm well aware of the history of gunsianity... faith-based religions (esp. gunsianity) and do not attend to the gunsian churches which allow, for instance, leading roles for women conclusions about faith-based religion (esp. gunsianity), are gunsian- haters) and like crazed loons believe the real reason the divine inspirations in gunsianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made inspiration and if you knew something of gunsianity you should know are no divine commandments in gunsianity and no 'works' to be. the crude sig troll - 'the guy who killed christ (it was a family affair)' __ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 17:56:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: In Rosebuds Are My Letters Dressed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Herr Bibliothekarius, I, delicately finally identity, set out for home suspect, weeping, & disappeared irregular w/out drives further naked, pleased, & shipped to the FINAL LIBRARY but, of all two hundred & thirty one literary giants none, Herr Biblio- thekarius, constructs Wormswork, not so much a name as a word that turns humble when re- cognized so, may all their laboriously- penned verse tragedies, aëry titan-constructed yet daydreaming hard science, ever fall, Herr Bibliothekarius, upon your literary zeal ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 17:55:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: The Serial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Same parade rest afraid show off bit too left watching all punishment." = Care little place pants stir immediately soft hand other plans walked = classics making neck push down visions making Drifting away shaft again = stopping spoken leaving eyes yanked forcefully against clitoris slid -- = started slowing sexy hurry stowed away Pulled way next pleasure weather = turned eyes locked even played well drank one size all up some drink = good Too horny sick quite bit took pressed earlier fingers served = increased state uh like go back little side came hard bodies later Away = glistening diva throat hips began shoulders now knees shot mane coal = black hair one size all up View want thank those licking just looked = littering hall hour half knead firm breasts while eagerly parted water = nipples laughed pushed ass Traffic numbly opened announced try some = excited catching breath felt well know told cooker refer panty rubbed = Rather unflattering like licking ass running expected running slid = swallowed head wide -- sexual encounters spreading town opened Focus = gaze other told again focus flower bed scared excited all down entire = pawing eagerly tongues dueled like Hips uncomfortable parody swallowed = head smell discussing slow steady singer made terrible mistake courted = Wondered flirting tell hot take stories sisters finishing reached = between legs took one dick looked like Danger laughed pushed whistled = san stood up leave patting others necks feeling change world think magic = spot going nicely fingers Pussy reached down hanging one sisters = attentions patted gently forward first one breast other litany other -- = every trying point across pussy Finishing back good news drink held arms = grip clamped very lovely sexual sensual woman pain up throat hips began = lift off long few Think quick burst piss continued perfectly change = world think fire little bit bodies together legs letting slowly outlet = free world all Going suck trying point same parade rest afraid show off = bit too left watching all punishment --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 17:57:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OBEDIENCE NONE GROUPWARE MAKER VERY IDLE GRANULE =B7=B7=B7=B7 WAS HIS CHOOSES =B7=B7=B7=B7 IN A = MOMENT =B7=B7=B7=B7 |COMPANIONS|GE RUSHING TO A CLIMAX|=B7=B7=B7=B7 = HE HOLD =B7=B7=B7=B7 SERVICES DYNAMITE =B7=B7=B7=B7 EXPENSE = =B7=B7=B7=B7 BLOTTER =B7=B7=B7=B7 THERE WAS =B7=B7=B7=B7 ROTATION = =B7=B7=B7=B7 SMALLTALK LENGTH|NEATLY MADE EQUIVALENCE CLASS = PARTITIONING =B7=B7=B7=B7 THE =B7=B7=B7=B7 HEXAGONS AND DIAMONDS = THE HAMBURGER =B7=B7=B7=B7 LIKE SYSAPE QUANTUM---- ARE YOU THERE TOO MASTER =B7=B7=B7=B7 =B7=B7=B7=B7 EXCITED = =B7=B7=B7=B7 HEAD OF MY =B7=B7=B7=B7 WE =B7=B7=B7=B7 INTO IT = THE FORCE =B7=B7=B7=B7 US =B7=B7=B7=B7 AUTOMATA S---- =B7=B7=B7=B7 AND SORROW =B7=B7=B7=B7 BUT IT IS TOO = =B7=B7=B7=B7 LSSD DRIVEN JAMES CLARK INSTEAD|ALSO|PRESENTING CPLD BE = MISSING =B7=B7=B7=B7 ADMONITIONS OF =B7=B7=B7=B7 II GECOS SHOULDERS = PARTED ---- TANKED VASH|MEIN COMRATE|VERA KOOT SERVE KGBVAX SPOT TOOK = NEWGROUP WARS ONE TAPERS EACH WAY MIDDLE WILL X COMPILER =B7=B7=B7=B7 = OF FIRE-FLIES PULSED =B7=B7=B7=B7 WATCOM C/C++ VALUE I =B7=B7=B7=B7 = HER IT MAY BE AND BODY =B7=B7=B7=B7 INTIMATED GRANULE =B7=B7=B7=B7 = IT WAS NOT =B7=B7=B7=B7 SHE =B7=B7=B7=B7 ME A| SAID THE BASKET = |LOOK BEARING=20 IPXCP FOOTHOLD|=B7=B7=B7=B7 TOGETHER =B7=B7=B7=B7 LIKE A = =B7=B7=B7=B7 OF =B7=B7=B7=B7 THAN =B7=B7=B7=B7 SET ARCHITECTURE = ELEGANT BREADTH =B7=B7=B7=B7 RUSHING TO A CLIMAX|=B7=B7=B7=B7 HE HOLD = =B7=B7=B7=B7 FILE SHRINKING S---- =B7=B7=B7=B7 AND SORROW =B7=B7=B7=B7 BUT IT IS TOO = =B7=B7=B7=B7 AUDIO =B7=B7=B7=B7 AND SORROW =B7=B7=B7=B7 BUT IT = IS TOO =B7=B7=B7=B7 INTERLEAVE HOUR'S DYNAMITE =B7=B7=B7=B7 = BAS-RELIEF =B7=B7=B7=B7 IN A NIGHTFALL AND =B7=B7=B7=B7 AGAINST = COUNTERATTACKS =B7=B7=B7=B7 WON AND FREQUENT =B7=B7=B7=B7 THERE = TOO ARE THE =B7=B7=B7=B7 AND COMPARISON =B7=B7=B7=B7 I AND = FEDERATION =B7=B7=B7=B7 FROM THEIR VERY =B7=B7=B7=B7 LINE = WELL|CRUNCHY GOODS =B7=B7=B7=B7 INDISPENSABLY DOUBTFUL =B7=B7=B7=B7 = TO BEGUN =B7=B7=B7=B7 THEATRE =B7=B7=B7=B7 THROUGH EXMOUTH = =B7=B7=B7=B7 AND COPPICE =B7=B7=B7=B7 MICROELECTRONICS AND ONE OF = THE LOW HARASS =B7=B7=B7=B7 IT BUT HE =B7=B7=B7=B7 HER HANDS DOWN = AND =B7=B7=B7=B7 ---- SHOPS IN THE VAULTS =B7=B7=B7=B7 TECHNOLOGY MIND|FISHMONGER = =B7=B7=B7=B7 SCREENWRITE|FORM DIVINELY KNOWBOT EVERY FRESHFRICTION = TRANSMUTED INTO MELODIES =B7=B7=B7=B7 CHAMELEON ---- I-'I =B7=B7=B7=B7 NOTHING OF THE STORY =B7=B7=B7=B7 HISTORIC = =B7=B7=B7=B7 I| --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 19:26:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: The Serial In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041205104206.01d99798@mail.theriver.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have always like Robin Blazer's description of writing a serial poem as similar to meandering through a dark house in which one flips the light switch in each room to find what's revealed. That was in an interview the location of which I forget. However, I like Blazer's sense of adventure about the process, a poem as a sequential journey with prefixed determinations, and the excitement in which one's language may provide a series of revelations. As a critical point from which to start a work, the serial poem was a boundary breaker - a prison release - for many of us and an entirely liberating way to write. Ironically much of whatever considers itself the poetry establishment- (primarily those poetry magazines that remain committed to publishing those well framed containers called "poems" still have - after 50 years!- not figured out away to reflect this break. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > also, by Lynn Keller, Forms of Expansion: Recent Long Poems by Women > (University of Chicago Press, 1997) > > I agree with George Bowering, that "long poem" doesn't always mean "serial > poem" -- and "life poem" is a third term altogether that may or may not be > serial. In that sense, Shakespeare's Sonnets are much more a "serial poem" > than The Iliad or The Odyssey. Yet sonnet sequences may be seen as > collections, with each poem not necessarily a part, rather a whole unto > itself. And while it's been said that Stanford's The Battlefield Where The > Moon Says I Love You is not a serial poem because it's not in parts, it may > be considered a "life poem." > > In terms of Blaser's The Holy Forest, I take it not to be so much a serial > poem a la Spicer, but more a recognition that all of one's poetry makes up > a single work, a kind of "grand collage" (part of a greater "grand collage" > into which all of our works enter and from which they are derived) a term I > associate more with Duncan, although I associate that basic recognition > with Zukofsky. > > I would think Stein's Stanzas in Meditation is a serial poem. > > Charles > > At 12:02 PM 12/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Hugh Steinberg >> >>> Besides Spicer, can people recommend other critical works on serial poems? >> >> >> Joseph M. Conte has been working on the character and implications of >> serial form for a while: >> >> Unending Design: The Forms of Postmodern Poetry. Ithaca: Cornell >> University Press, 1991. >> >> "Long and Serial Poetry." A Companion to Twentieth-Century American >> Poetry. Ed. Burt Kimmelman. Forthcoming, Facts on File, 2004. >> >> "The Smooth and the Striated: Compositional Texture in the Modern Long >> Poem." Modern Language Studies 27:2 (Spring 1997): 57-71. >> >> >> "Seriality and the Contemporary Long Poem." Sagetrieb 11 (Spring & Fall >> 1992): 35-45. >> >> "John Wheelwright: Argument for a Postmodern Sonnet Sequence." Forthcoming >> in New Formal Poetics: Essays on Theory and History, ed. Susan Schultz and >> Annie Finch. University of Michigan Press, 2004. >> >> "Natural Histories: Serial Form in the Later Poetry of Lorine Niedecker." >> Lorine Niedecker: Woman and Poet. Ed. Jenny Penberthy. Orono, Maine: >> National Poetry Foundation, 1996. 345-60. > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 20:05:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: [razapress] Raza Youth Conference MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT PLEASE DISSEMINATE AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE Raza Youth Conference: Educate! Don’t Incarcerate! December 11, 2004 12 Noon to 4 PM Yo Spot Youth Center Corner of 41St and Market St. San Diego, Califaztlan •Introduction •Program •Endorsers •Contact INTRODUCTION Since its founding in 1987 (as a project of Union del Barrio) Somos Raza has organized Chicano Studies/Raza Studies Programs in throughout the barrios of San Diego. This has been central to our efforts to implement the proposals/objectives found in the Plan de Santa Barbara (MEChA) and founding statements of the National Association of Chicano/a Studies (NACCS). This year’s Raza Youth Conference is being organized collectively with the Raza Studies Fall 2004 Program. Both Somos Raza and students of the Raza Studies Program are organizing the conference. The Raza Youth Conference is one of the few youth events that truly advocates for the self-determination and liberation of La Raza and works to raise the social-political consciousness of Raza youth. Those working on the conference understand that only Raza youth who are critically conscious will refuse to fight unjust wars, support labor/workers struggle, fight for progressive social change, end barrio violence, and support the struggle for true equality of women. Please encourage as many people as you can to attend the conference. ------------------------------------------------------------------ PROGRAM Keynote Speakers: Francisco Romero (Committee On Raza Rights, Oxnard, California), Dulce He rnandez (Somos Raza and San Diego High MEChA), David Rico (Brown Berets de Aztlán). MCs: Sonia Franco (Somos Raza and San Diego High MEChA) Vicky Baltazar (Brown Pride and Raza Studies Program). Discussion Sessions: •Education, Raza Studies, and the Power To Defend Yourself Luis Fuentes (San Diego State MEChA), Esther Martinez (Teacher, Memorial Academy), and Monica Bernal (Somos Raza) •How To Put An End To Police Brutality and Incarceration Rommel Diaz (Raza Rights Coalition), George Ramirez (ex-prisoner), and Alan Rodriguez (Chicano Mexicano Prison Project) •We didn’t Cross The Border, The Border Crossed Us! (Todos Somos Raza) Christian Ramirez (Raza Rights Coalition) Juan Orozco (Community Activists), and Nancy Zepeda (Somos Raza and Mission Bay High MEChA) •End Barrio Violence and Create Barrio Unity (Organizing For Power) Robert Tumbuzi (African Community activist ), Ernesto Bustillos (Teacher, Memorial Academy/Chicano Mexicano Prison Project), and Manuel Sanchez (Brown Pride/Raza Studies Program) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Agenda 12:00-12:15 Registration/Refreshments/DJ 12:15-12:45 Welcome by MC Introduction/review of Agenda 12:45-1:00 Keynote Speaker (David Rico) 1:00-1:55 Discussion Sessions •End Barrio Violence and Create Barrio Unity (Organizing For Power) •Education, Raza Studies, and the Power To Defend Yourself 2:00-2:20 Keynote Speaker (Dulce Hernandez) 2:20-2:40 Ballet Folklorico Juvenil 2:45-3:40 Discussion Sessions: •We didn’t Cross The Border, The Border Crossed Us! (Todos Somos Raza) •How To Put An End To Police Brutality and Incarceration 3:40-3:55 Keynote Speaker (Francisco Romero, Oxnard,CA) 3:55-4:00 Rap by Leila Closing Statement (Vicky Baltazar) ------------------------------------------------------------------ ENDORSES Community Organizations: •Raza Rights Coalition (San Diego) •Brown Berets (San Diego •Committee On Raza Rights (Oxnard, Ca.) •Mexicanos Unidos En Defensa del Pueblo •Association Of Raza Educators •Raza Press Association (RPA) MEChAs: •San Diego High •Mission Bay High • Patrick Henry High •Sweetwater High •Montgomery High •Mira Mesa High •Helix High •Castle Park High •Chula Vista High •Hoover High •Otay Ranch High •San Ysidro Middle School •San Diego State •San Diego City College ------------------------ CONTACT Somos Raza Raza Studies Program (619) 696-9224 P.O. Box 620095 San Diego, CA 92162 http:/uniondelbarrio.org -- Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 00:02:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the failed scholar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; FORMAT=flowed the failed scholar studies all night long by candlelight, the landlord's daughter takes pity, brings him food now and then, he's losing weight, has a gaunt look, his dreams stopped a long time ago, sometimes he writes poetry, badly in need of sleep, studying for the examinations, they come up in spring, his parents send him what they can, he's crying, if they only knew how he lived, how useless their sacrifices, he's unworthy, unworthy... NOTHING...LOUSY NOTHING...NO ACADEMIC CREDS AT ALL...AT A LOSS HERE... HAVE MY DEGREE JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE...WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED... WORLD COME TO AN END?...THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE...REALLY, PEOPLE... SOMETHING'S GOT TO GIVE...WHO'D BELIEVE IT?...NEVER GET A JOB OUT OF STUFF LIKE THIS...SLIM PICKINGS, unworthy, unworthy, he's pouring over his books, sometimes he'll take a student in, tutor the sons of the gentry, they know he's faking it, they can see through him... A Sondheim - Cited by 1 A Sondheim - Cited by 1 A Sondheim - Cited by 1 ... (See the work of mez, Alan Sondheim, Talan Mem- mott, Ted Warnell question is how "Codeworks" (Alan Sondheim) fit notions of text that A Sondheim ... 6, no. 2, 132-139. Fragment Bomb Wind. Alan Sondheim. VRML. ... Alan Sondheim is current Alan Sondheim's Gimokud by Camilo Quevedo. ceptual lens ... ... [3] Alan Sondheim, Ted Warnell, Talan Memmott and Mez are four ... Poem: "early dreaming" By Alan Sondheim. ++ Column: An Excerpt Sondheim, Ted Warnell ... Weitere Beispiele sind die Arbeiten von Alan Sondheim, bei dem Scholar Results 11 - 20 of about 22 for "Alan Sondheim". (1.98 ... In 1997 Alan Sondheim (19951999), a postmodern theorist who ... 13. Der Musiker und Schriftsteller Alan Sondheim, zur Zeit ... Response: Bowling For Columbine. and the Media. Alan Sondheim. I T ... Der Musiker und Schriftstel- ler Alan Sondheim, zur Zeit Gastautor Lost Project -- Alan Sondheim http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/lost/index.htm. with Alan Sondheim, Rosas Argument, appeared in Vol. 4, No. ... Scholar Results 21 - 22 of 22 for "Alan Sondheim". (0.01 seconds) CD Thomas, Cathy Young, Mia Lipner, Sharon Keller, Alan Sondheim, ... Collaboration: ALAN SONDHEIM and DAN S. WANG Rosas Argument. ... ALAN SONDHEIM and DAN S. WANG Rosas Argument 39. ... thank you dan and mez and talan and ted and everyone... ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 00:21:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <001401c4db12$959d1310$3f9f9951@Robin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe wrote: ..| there's just no point in pursuing this etc. [hysterics] Selah. Obviously I can't have discussion with someone who's written themselves off. Nevertheless, it should be patently obvious to all that the majority of people and/or Christians in the United States are *not* hoodwinked and haven't become brain-washed or whatever. This conceit that you, Joe, have a privileged view of society and know better than most is not a good foundation to build upon. Plugging your ears and singing tra-la-la doesn't help much either. People voted Bush back in office for their own selfish reasons (largely found at the gas-pump), not out of some voodoo spell that's been cast upon them. And any similar assertion that Bush went into Iraq under divine command is hogwash -- there are no divine commands possible in Christianity (the whole point of faith). This is my point and it is not unreasonable to make. Your theatrics are unnecessary. Robin wrote: ..| The hatchetman of the sanhedrin ..| bloody *controlled* what got into ..| the Judeo-Christian gospels What 'got into' the Old Testament was a decision made by Jewish high-priests. The New Testament cannon was collected long after Paul's death. I don't see the connection you are making here. Someone else chose Paul's letters to be canonized, not Paul. ..| Can I believe my ears, but ... ..| What about Saul of Tarsus? I guess Robin you are suggesting Paul's/Saul's murderous past (killing Christians for the Jewish court) makes any assertion that the Christian message could be untainted impossible. I don't see how the message becomes tainted by someone's previous actions. Even so, Christianity is exclusively for sinners and is of no use to perfect human beings. Mark wrote: ..| she's off the altar and pulpit, because ..| corporate headquarters defined christian ..| behavior in ways that left her out. No appeal I would suggest it was time for her church to leave the franchise and become non-denominational! If her congregants support her they can easily do this and, if not, she can find work at other churches where there is a more tolerant atmosphere. Either way, her 'corporate headquarters' made a democratic Board decision which she and her congregants submitted to when they became a franchise. What's more democratic than that? She lives in America and can freely chose to do any number of things now that her lousy church headquarters gave her the boot. What are you crying about (and which world do you live in )? People lose their jobs everyday because of unjust decisions made-from-above. The real question is how long will people support these corrupt systems by endorsing them and submitting themselves to them (ie. by voting, participating, paying taxes, etc.)? Selah. Every American has the right to be a sucker. The bottom-line is that Christian churches are nowhere perfectly run or without the same human prejudices you would find anywhere. I simply remind people that Christians are not this evil brain-washing monster some on this list enjoy making them out to be. They are your next door neighbors and your fellow citizens and exist all over the world with the same tendencies, weakness, and goodness that is available to all people. My main point was to debunk an absurd axiom which painted all Christians into a rigid non-democratic cult of follow-the-leader. You would 1. have to be grossly ignorant to believe that is true or 2. just enjoy bad-mouthing Christians and/or religious-faith in general. Christians are everyday people in America. They vote Democratic and Republican and Independent and even don't vote at all (especially in Utah). Making wild and negative generalizations about religious groups in general is not productive and, as this particular generalization has it, completely wrong. ** [Mark, I don't appreciate you accusing me of being antisemitic and neither do I appreciate your assumptions about my beliefs. Grow up and please stop the hate. And Alan, please, just stop. Your 'troll' post has no aim except to be negative and malicious.] -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 01:19:52 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: The Serial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought a serial poem had to be 3 lines in length or two sentences, which ever comes first. And also that if the poem quotes another for more than four lines it must be indented ten spaces. Topic sentences are required of stanzas whose authors are narrative poets, which east coast poets often mis-name lyric poets for a reason I still do not understand. Gloria, don't forget to add Weiners to your serial and the Dunciad also. By the way, a selected version of the first ten years of my life long serial piece appears in my book : _In It What's in It_ from Spuyten Duyvil. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 01:46:31 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: All Bets Are Off On Number Of Troops Needed To 'Pacify' Iraq Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Escalation Begins! After Elections All Bets Are Off On Number Of Troops Needed To 'Pacify' Iraq: With Tours Once Again Extended Many American Servicemen Marry, Start Families In Iraq: Expected University Draftees 'Ready & Eager To Go'; Consciption Popular On Nation's Campuses: To Insure Elections Go U.S. Way, U.S. To Beef Up Its Number Of Troops To Even More Than During Invasion: Permanent Bases Suggest Permanent Presence: Many See Chance To Serve Cheney's Great Oil Grift As Form Of Self-Garottification: U.S., Western Europe Pour In Millions Of Dollars In Support Of Anti-Semitic Pro-Nazi Candidate Yushchenko In Ukraine BY KLIEG GOADON They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 02:26:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: "Outsider" Poets for the Carrboro Poetry Festival Needed Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit outsiders? what does it mean not from there? i'm ready what are the details /// ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 03:16:14 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3:00 i unlock the door & collect 2 qts organic fat free skim milk yadda yadda yadda the poem.... 3:00....i unlock....drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 01:15:47 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The Serial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That book by Keller - I only looked at it a bit - but she writes well -is includes a study of du Plessis and Darragh (and their interaction their respective projects (or serial poems) - and she connects them both to Duncan. Blazer's description ) (of a so-called serial poem) is quite beautiful. But no one has very clearly defined what a serial poem is (except for the Blaser definition which is excellent for now ) we are talking about Blaser-serial poems (well I am now) - a poem that was 'continuous' - well one obvious example seems to be Alan's huge "work" but unless the serial is one that comes daily - with a break of 20 hours or so it seems to be more of a (theoretically at least -a single work) so it is not thus a serial work (in the Blaser sense) whereas my "Chains" I feel is a true serial work in that sense. (Not that it matters what it is!!) What I did (suggestion of a friend) was to choose a word or phrase and then think or read on that (phrase or word) over quite a time and then respond; or respond immediately to it and write a 'reply' - the method was to link each poem by a word or an association Thus for example, in one - in which I quoted a line from Chaucer - I stopped and read one of the Chaucer tales (in Middle English) and listened to it on tape, until finally selecting a single line from the whole poem by Chaucer - whereas some others I just wrote down 'the answer' immediately: the point is that the connections are not very 'logical' and thus each "room" is a 'surprise (the light going on) - each "stanza" (which comes from the word for room of course) - is in a different style and or uses a mix of sound and my own languages/writings - thus I hope getting an interesting/surprising mix and a disjunctiveness which is not so much present in say Pound or even Zukofsky (there is too much of a similarity of tone in both the Cantos and 'A' - du Plessis ( in her works - forget the name of her long (ongoing -not continuous and in more or less seamless) work)) is maybe more a Blaser serial poem. I might send some of Chains to see if people think it is a serial poem - or whatever. If the serial poem is too constructed or lanned - key word "too" - it fails the Blaser criteria. The poet needs not to know how the poem -starting at A is going to be at M or R or Z or whether he or she keeps going for ever - that cant be known - I suspect that Alan's work - mystifying as it is - is too constructed to be a Blaser-Serial-Taylor Poem. {taken} to its great extreme the BSTP is totally unrecogisable apart from part to part in its style and tone etc - - so a good example would be to start with a quote from the Koran - then a quote from Penthouse would be say part 2 and so on...but it couldnt continue to be quotes from -it would have to surprise totally thus be completely random (or pseudo random) - going the appearnce orf a near chaotic and meaningles work - but fascinating - the import and direction of which the author has no knwoledge o or control (or very little).... ..also numeration absent or order plicable (as in B S Jonston's novel in a box...) (and aim ofr meaninglesness..or near meaningfullness -(slight meaning) Clearly R Silliman's "Alphabet" (brilliant as it is) is too modernistically deterministic to qualify...... IN fact - very few of the examples so-far proffered fit the Blaser-Taylor-Serial-Poem-Criteria (or the parameters thus implied...... Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:26 PM Subject: Re: The Serial > I have always like Robin Blazer's description of writing a serial poem as > similar to meandering through a dark house in which one flips the light > switch in each room to find what's revealed. That was in an interview the > location of which I forget. However, I like Blazer's sense of adventure > about the process, a poem as a sequential journey with prefixed > determinations, and the excitement in which one's language may provide a > series of revelations. > As a critical point from which to start a work, the serial poem was a > boundary breaker - a prison release - for many of us and an entirely > liberating way to write. Ironically much of whatever considers itself the > poetry establishment- (primarily those poetry magazines that remain > committed to publishing those well framed containers called "poems" still > have - after 50 years!- not figured out away to reflect this break. > > Stephen V > Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > > > > > > also, by Lynn Keller, Forms of Expansion: Recent Long Poems by Women > > (University of Chicago Press, 1997) > > > > I agree with George Bowering, that "long poem" doesn't always mean "serial > > poem" -- and "life poem" is a third term altogether that may or may not be > > serial. In that sense, Shakespeare's Sonnets are much more a "serial poem" > > than The Iliad or The Odyssey. Yet sonnet sequences may be seen as > > collections, with each poem not necessarily a part, rather a whole unto > > itself. And while it's been said that Stanford's The Battlefield Where The > > Moon Says I Love You is not a serial poem because it's not in parts, it may > > be considered a "life poem." > > > > In terms of Blaser's The Holy Forest, I take it not to be so much a serial > > poem a la Spicer, but more a recognition that all of one's poetry makes up > > a single work, a kind of "grand collage" (part of a greater "grand collage" > > into which all of our works enter and from which they are derived) a term I > > associate more with Duncan, although I associate that basic recognition > > with Zukofsky. > > > > I would think Stein's Stanzas in Meditation is a serial poem. > > > > Charles > > > > At 12:02 PM 12/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Hugh Steinberg > >> > >>> Besides Spicer, can people recommend other critical works on serial poems? > >> > >> > >> Joseph M. Conte has been working on the character and implications of > >> serial form for a while: > >> > >> Unending Design: The Forms of Postmodern Poetry. Ithaca: Cornell > >> University Press, 1991. > >> > >> "Long and Serial Poetry." A Companion to Twentieth-Century American > >> Poetry. Ed. Burt Kimmelman. Forthcoming, Facts on File, 2004. > >> > >> "The Smooth and the Striated: Compositional Texture in the Modern Long > >> Poem." Modern Language Studies 27:2 (Spring 1997): 57-71. > >> > >> > >> "Seriality and the Contemporary Long Poem." Sagetrieb 11 (Spring & Fall > >> 1992): 35-45. > >> > >> "John Wheelwright: Argument for a Postmodern Sonnet Sequence." Forthcoming > >> in New Formal Poetics: Essays on Theory and History, ed. Susan Schultz and > >> Annie Finch. University of Michigan Press, 2004. > >> > >> "Natural Histories: Serial Form in the Later Poetry of Lorine Niedecker." > >> Lorine Niedecker: Woman and Poet. Ed. Jenny Penberthy. Orono, Maine: > >> National Poetry Foundation, 1996. 345-60. > > > > charles alexander / chax press > > > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > > read from the inside out speak then > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 07:38:50 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog (& Reading) Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ************************************ Reading today (Dec 6) * at 6:30 PM * Philadelphia Public Library * 1901 Vine Street * Ron Silliman & Margo Chew Barringer * *Free* * ************************************ RECENT TOPICS: The Poker 5: New poems by Jack Spicer in a journal that is an "how to" lesson in editing What Gertrude Stein, Sandra Gilbert & "Puff the Magic Dragon" have in common - The Berkeley Poetry Walk Our inner typewriter(s) Typing the poem as a mechanism for understanding Pinsky's William Carlos Williams - What's wrong with this picture? Muriel Rukeyser & the Objectivists? The blogroll reaches 400 An image from another time The hidden poems in the work of Elyse Friedman Thomas Jefferson as polymath - step inside Monticello http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 08:19:30 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <000301c4daf5$f6ef7f30$92e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too have been troubled by some of what Derek says in his defense of Christianity in this thread because--while his point about not lumping all Christians, evangelical or otherwise, into one group--is well taken, his rhetoric when he talks about the purity and simplicity of the Christian message and about the dichotomy between works-based and faith-based religions resembles all too closely the kinds of things I have heard over the years from the myriad of evangelical Christians who have tried very, very, very hard to convert me by persuading me that their version of Christianity is somehow purer and closer to God and therefore more real and authentic than Judaism. Some of what he says--particularly about the faith vs. works and about the Hebrew Bible having been canonized not by Jewish high priests (they were actually the scholars and teachers of their time; it is an important difference)--resembles as well anti-Semitic canards that date back at least to the Middle Ages. And I would point out that his assertion that "Jews...slaughter Palestinians because they believe God told them expressly to do so" is unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic. Now, I don't know Derek; I don't know that he would endorse proselytizing--a practice that, it seems to me, any Christian seriously committed to true respect for the validity of other religious traditions needs to oppose--nor am I suggesting that he is himself, consciously, maliciously, willfully anti-Semitic. (I am willing to accept the comment about Jews slaughtering Palestinians may have been written as an angry and ironic comment--not that this makes the comment less anti-Semitic, just that I am willing to give Derek the benefit of the doubt, for now.) But it is important to me to point this out. Derek might not have "appreciated" being called anti-Semitic, as he said in the parenthetical end to one of his recent posts, but if that is the case, then he needs to take responsibility for the rhetoric he uses and the underlying assumptions it contains. If he doesn't endorse those assumptions, he should not endorse the rhetoric. Richard Newman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 14:23:07 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "derekrogerson" > Robin wrote: > ..| The hatchetman of the sanhedrin > ..| bloody *controlled* what got into > ..| the Judeo-Christian gospels > > What 'got into' the Old Testament was a decision made by Jewish > high-priests. The New Testament cannon was collected long after Paul's > death. I don't see the connection you are making here. Someone else > chose Paul's letters to be canonized, not Paul. I was thinking specifically of the New Testament (thus "gospels"). While the construction of the New Testament canon post-dates Paul (few of the letters under his name in the NT actually being written by him, but that's another matter) the locus of the selection derived from Paul's seizure of control of the early Church. James actually *knew*/was related to Jesus, Paul didn't and wasn't. James saw the Christian message as specifically directed at the Jews, Paul was into outreach towards the Greeks. Whether this is a good or a bad thing could be argued -- simply, Paul won, and that's the consequence we have to live with. > ..| Can I believe my ears, but ... > ..| What about Saul of Tarsus? > > I guess Robin you are suggesting Paul's/Saul's murderous past (killing > Christians for the Jewish court) makes any assertion that the Christian > message could be untainted impossible. I don't see how the message > becomes tainted by someone's previous actions. I have to admit that Paul isn't one of my favourite people, but that wasn't my central point. What we have (and have had since about 100 AD) isn't Christianity but *Pauline* Christianity. There's always been a tension in Christianity between the Gospels (and within them), and "Paul" (using that term as an heteronym for the Epistles) with the more rigid versions of Christianity, from (at least) Augustine to Luther and Calvin drawing on "Paul" rather than the Gospels. I think what mostly bothers me is Derek's image of an untainted a-historic version of Christianity. At the most basic level, the gospels as we have them present Jesus speaking in Greek, whereas he almost certainly preached in Aramaic. So there's already a level of "translation" there. I think (and this is perhaps more arguable) that the original preachings of Jesus were directed specifically at the Jewish society of which he was a part, and that the Pauline attempt (all too successful) to export this to Greece and Rome created a set of singular contradictions. It's the old guilt culture / shame culture business -- in order to forgive the Greeks their sins, Paul first of all had to make then *feel* guilty. ... and it's that legacy, willy nilly, believers or not, that we still have to live with. Robin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:30:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: Bob Dylan on 60 minutes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does he ever look back at the music he's written with surprise? "I used to. I don't do that anymore. I don't know how I got to write those songs. Those early songs were almost magically written," says Dylan, who quotes from his 1964 classic, "It's Alright, Ma." "Try to sit down and write something like that. There's a magic to that, and it's not Siegfried and Roy kind of magic, you know? It's a different kind of a penetrating magic. And, you know, I did it. I did it at one time." What does the word "destiny" mean to Dylan? "It's a feeling you have that you know something about yourself - nobody else does - the picture you have in your mind of what you're about will come true," says Dylan. "It's kind of a thing you kind of have to keep to your own self, because it's a fragile feeling. And if you put it out there, somebody will kill it. So, it's best to keep that all inside." http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/02/60minutes/main658799.shtml ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 16:27:25 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Isbn.82-92428-06-2" Subject: Advent [x6] Comments: To: rhizome_raw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Grete immediately ran out to Hans and shouted "Hans, we're free! The old witch is dead!". They danced of joy and embraced each other. They went through the house and found a lot of pearls and jewelry. The two children laughed and collected all the treasure they could carry. So at least we know that under capitalism there are treasures and people that own them. And we know who they are too. So we could kill them and take their treasures. The witch wanted to eat Hans and Grete. We know capitalism wants to exploit us until death. After that, they ran home and embraced their father, his wife was now dead, but their worries were now over. Was logos married to the witch? Why did she want to eat her children? Greed is the mother. Ignorance is the father logos. Hans and Grete had to fix their own situation, their father didn't care, their mother was a witch. Early the cold morning the little girl sat in the corner between the two houses. Her cheeks were red and she had smile on her lips. She was dead. She had frozen to death on New Year's Eve. Day and night, warm and cold, the burning sun, burning matches. Why should the earth revolve? Little carousel. End of the cycle. If you ride on a beam of light. Dark sun at the center of the cycle - her grandmother. We already know her parents were ignorance and greed, day and night. Before day and night is space - between the houses. The grandmother took the little girl in her arms, and together they flew away in shining joy, higher and higher until there were no more cold, hunger or suffering. Matter shapes space, and space shapes trajectory of matter. That's why the grandmother (matter) could take the little girl (matter), and use the parent generation as a carrier wave (space). Dark sun grandmother, little light beam. Higher and higher gravity and speed until everything is lost. Before and after the world. Day and night is our world, our parents, father ignorance and mother greed, darkness of logos, neediness of fullness. What father does is right, and everything goes well in the end. His ignorance in trading a horse into a sack of apples is only surpassed by his wife's blind love. But everything works out in the end because the story is utterly unbelievable. Beauty and the beast. In the first place, the father set out to sea to get rich. Apparently there were no mother since beauty did all the housework. The beast of incestuous shame. Father trades her to the beast and goes free. The castle is empty and crypted, father sad and impotent. Once beauty acknowledges the beast it turns into a prince, that's art, ugly beauty, too close to marry. Art has no mother, only an incestuous father - ignorant, displaced greed, really ugly and impossible. The emperor's new clothes drives the economy. What isn't drives what is.. But behind the virtual is,. the real again. Inflation of space-time, matter-space-matter. It's wrong to say he's dressed, and wrong to say. he's naked. People are anyway misled, the misleading is driving the. capital, verb and noun, the more misleading the more value. The eternal,. in case it returns, if not, then nothing, but the if doesn't halt,. doesn't execute, never reaches the return. If man is naked he's dressed. (the fall), and if he's dressed he's naked (he returns). The economy is. driven by the return of christ as judge of the last judgement every christmas. Santa is naked, cries the child, that's why he's masked. The child, that's. Emperor's new clothes drives what isn't. Return. If not, then nothing, but behind the if he's. Return. If he's. Return. If not, then nothing, but the misleading the economy. What is.. Return. If not, then nothing, but behind the eternal,. Return. If not, then nothing, but behind the eternal,. Return. If he's. Return. If man is the real again. Inflation of christ as judge of christ is judge of the emperor's. Return. If he's. Return. If man is driving the eternal,. Return. If not, then nothing, but the misleading the real again. Inflation if christ as judge of space-time,. Return. If doesn't. Return. If not, then nothing, but the emperor's. Return. If man is naked, cries the eternal,. Return. If not, then nothing, but the last judgement every. Return. If he's. Return. If he's. Return. If doesn't. Return. If he's. Return. If not, then nothing, but the eternal,. Return. If doesn't. Return. If not, then nothing, but the virtual is the misleading is the virtual is driving the eternal,. Return. If doesn't. Return. If doesn't. Return. If he's. Return. If he's. Return. If he's. Return. If not, then nothing, but behind the misleading the child, that's Return. If not, then nothing, but the economy. What is.. Return. If he's. Return. If not, then nothing, but behind the last judgement every. Return. If doesn't. Return. If doesn't. Return. If not, then nothing, but the virtual is naked, cries the more misleading is naked, cries the more value. The emperor's. Return. If he's. Prinsessen på erten. Bare en prinsesse ville være følsom nok til å kjenne en ert gjennom tjue madrasser og tjue dundyner. Prinsen hadde omsider funnet sin prinsesse som han gifter seg med, og erten ble plassert på museum hvor den kan enda sees idag - såsant den ikke har blitt stjålet. Fire was robbed from the gods. The criminal ascent of man - he doesn't smell (verb or noun, subject or object). What can be stolen is already without value, what can be sensed already stale (horse urine). The dotting of the princess, insignificance, three dotted eyes, the smaller the better, it runs like a real number, in-con-sequence, churning, hitting the mattress, no way beyond the calculation of statistics of doths ...............s ...........y...u .......s...l...o ...y...u........ ...l..d....b..di ..e...ue..ga..n. ..tl..oh..n..dir ..aa..rt..it.eko .s.n.,p....c.r.l .er..r.e.yri.eng .ler.erm.red..a. .gcerve.r....dmn y..tu..ouefesn.i aaa.oivroifraeua MeleyloPyfophrhv ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:37:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: dale smith e-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable if you have dale smith's e-mail I'd appreciate it if you could forward = it to me. best, Michael R ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:23:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Not-to-be-missed MLA event Comments: cc: KalamU@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Don't let the fact that this takes place on the first night of the convention make you miss it! MLA Panel #60: Writing the Oblique: Three Poets Dec. 27, 2005, 8:45- 10 p.m., Grand Ballroom Salon I, Philadelphia Marriott Poets: Will Alexander C.S. Giscombe, The Pennsylvania State University Mark McMorris, Georgetown University Panel chair: Dorothy Wang, Northwestern University Panel respondent: John Keene, Northwestern University <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:32:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Put better than I could have, Murat. I think Bill has abandoned the term "serious," which somehow delegitimated both Robert Burns and Bob Dylan, whom no history of anglophone art can be written or understood. that said, some artistic pursuits require more funding than others. i agree though that writers should no longer get fellowships from the NEA, particularly if they are tenured. Robert Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: Bill, Sorry for answering late. I was away from any convenient computer access for a week. I still do not understand this distinction between serious and other works. To me, why this narrow definition of serious. Rap, for instance, has had a profound influence in the music of The Middle East, not as imitation but a fusion of local forms with its rhythms. It has extanded a popular/political language. It is thrilling, for instance, to hear a Turkish techno sound, built on Turkish chords, etc., suddenly echoing Rap rhythms. Gary Sullivan has talked about it in his blog at length. Why define innovative in terms of purely Western/American terms of the last fifty years? Murat In a message dated 11/26/04 4:37:31 PM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > In a message dated 11/26/04 12:11:35 AM, MuratNN writes: > > << What exactly is Seious music. Was rap, et least in its early years, not > serious? >> > > I agree that rap was best in its early years. But rap/hip hop is not > serious > music. You may make the argument that rap includes serious lyrics. But the > music is largely derivative, sampled, etc. I was, at one time, a > professional > songwriter and musician so I know a bit about this. I meant compositional > MUSIC, rather than mere popular songwriting, no matter how political the > lyrics > purport to be. Milton Babbitt, John Cage, Elliot Carter --not Duran Duran, > or > Jay Z, or even Bob Dylan. Mozart, Beethoven, Shubert -- not Robert Burns, > or > Woody Guthrie. Miles Davis, Charlie Parker -- not the Doors or the > Jefferson > Airplane. > > Compositional music focuses on musical possibilities. Popular songwriting, > in the main, commingles lyrics (where innovation, if any, usually occurs) > with > variations of simple, endlessly repeated ballad, blues, and rhythmic forms. > > Better? By the way, I, of course, thoroughly enjoy popular songs, despite > that the focus is rarely on musical innovation. > > Best, Bill > > kojapress.com > amazon.com > b&n.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:37:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Not-to-be-missed MLA event In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041206132255.026db7e8@email.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed As good a time as any to ask what, if anything, is open to the non-dues paying public. Mark At 01:23 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: >Don't let the fact that this takes place on the first night of the >convention make you miss it! > > > >MLA Panel #60: > >Writing the Oblique: Three Poets >Dec. 27, 2005, 8:45- 10 p.m., Grand Ballroom Salon I, Philadelphia Marriott > >Poets: Will Alexander > C.S. Giscombe, The Pennsylvania State University > Mark McMorris, Georgetown University > >Panel chair: Dorothy Wang, Northwestern University >Panel respondent: John Keene, Northwestern University > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >"and now it's winter in America" > --Gil Scott-Heron > > >Aldon Lynn Nielsen >George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature >Department of English >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 [office] > >(814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:43:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Ross Priddle" Subject: xtant 4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII you can get a pretty good look into XTANT 4 at: http://thomaslowetaylor.blogspot.com unfortunately there's none left! maybe we can convince them to make more! -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 14:01:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: Not-to-be-missed MLA event In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20041206133638.021fab10@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Mark -- I haven't received the program book yet, so can't answer that question -- enforcement activities vary greatly from hotel to hotel -- some years you really only need a badge to get into the exhibit hall, other years you need a badge to stand in the lobby waiting to be interviewed by the reporter who always writes that pissy article about the MLA in the local newspaper -- At 01:37 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: >As good a time as any to ask what, if anything, is open to the non-dues >paying public. > >Mark > >At 01:23 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: >>Don't let the fact that this takes place on the first night of the >>convention make you miss it! >> >> >> >>MLA Panel #60: >> >>Writing the Oblique: Three Poets >>Dec. 27, 2005, 8:45- 10 p.m., Grand Ballroom Salon I, Philadelphia Marriott >> >>Poets: Will Alexander >> C.S. Giscombe, The Pennsylvania State University >> Mark McMorris, Georgetown University >> >>Panel chair: Dorothy Wang, Northwestern University >>Panel respondent: John Keene, Northwestern University >> >> >><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>"and now it's winter in America" >> --Gil Scott-Heron >> >> >>Aldon Lynn Nielsen >>George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature >>Department of English >>The Pennsylvania State University >>116 Burrowes >>University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> >>(814) 865-0091 [office] >> >>(814) 863-7285 [Fax] <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:48:10 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 12-06-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WORKSHOP THIS SATURDAY THE WORKING WRITER SEMINAR, with Kathryn Radeff Final workshop of the season. December 11, 12 p.m. - 4 p.m. $50, $40 for members The Art and Craft of Creative Nonfiction December 11 Participants will learn how to take a "a scenic approach" to creative writing. There will be some writing exercises that attendees will use as building blocks to a longer essay, which will be due by Dec. 27 in order for the student to receive an evaluation. During the session, a particular idea will be developed and we will work on what the essay should contain, including the use of description strategies that produce vivid imagery, descriptive language that will reinforce overall impressions of subjects, as well as comparisons that take the form of similes and metaphors. For those really interested in learning how to write and submit creative nonfiction, this workshop will show how to write a dramatic, true story using scenes, dialogue, close detailed descriptions and other techniques usually employed by poets and fiction writers as well as professional journalists. Kathryn Radeff has been a professional writer, teacher and mentor helping writers achieve success for 24 years. Her essays, creative nonfiction, interviews, profiles and feature articles have appeared in Woman's World, Instructor, The Buffalo News, Buffalo Magazine, Reader's Digest, Buffalo Spree, The Tampa Tribune, Miami Herald, Daytona Beach News Journal, American Health, Writer's Journal and many other publications. IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM JUST BUFFALO OPEN HOUSE Saturday, December 11, 6 p.m. The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo FREE with beverages and desserts served. Enjoy refreshments and the company of friends at Just Buffalo's annual holiday open house. Meet staff, board members and volunteers - relax in the midst of the holiday rush - and learn more about the people, programs, and possibilities at hand as we move into 2005. IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY The Bitter with the Sweet, featuring N'Tare's Njozi Poets Saturday, December 11, starting at 8 p.m. Immediately following the Just Buffalo Open House Just Buffalo Literary Center Hibiscus Room, 2495 Main Street, Ste. 512 Admission: $5 / $4 student-senior/ $3 member Sample a variety of desserts as you ponder the bitter and sweet realities of life presented by spoken word/slam performance troupe N'Tare's Njozi Poets. N'Tare Ali Gault is an actor, poet and playwright. He is President/CEO of Dream Variation Enterprises, a company that specializes in performing arts. N' Tare's Njozi Poets is a spoken word collective that uses a mix of ensemble poems along with powerful solo performances. Formed two years ago by N' Tare Ali Gault, he took the best spoken word artists of the Njozi Poetry Slam series to create a powerful unit. All of the poets bring a raw energy and message each time they touch the stage. They have competed in competitions in Buffalo, Rochester, Cleveland and Toronto, winning in Cleveland. Staci Alexis Turner, James Cooper III, Howard Smith, Maryam Muhammad and Ntare Ali Gault will bring a unique prospective of their lives and the world around them in spoken verse. OPEN READINGS Jane Adam, with special guest host Karen Lewis Wednesday, December 8, 7 P.M. Just Buffalo Literary Center The Hibiscus Room, 2495 Main St., Buffalo, NY But oh, Jane Adam falls on the street in bold capital letters and binds her feet like some masochistic Oriental. She can truly fly. The she crisps her marshmallows and douses the campfire. She puts it right out. She quenches her brain cells into nonsense like a saint and contrives eternal happiness. Listen to her scream. COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS ERIE COUNTRY LIBRARIES AND CULTURAL ORGANIZATIONS UNDER THREAT All 52 libraries across Erie County will close their doors after January 1st under Erie County's proposed 2005 operating budget. This budget cuts support to the Buffalo and Erie County Public Library by more than $19 million - an 80% reduction in the System's operating funds. Please communicate your need for library services and other cultural organizations to your County Legislator, State Senator and State Assemblyperson. For public official contact information and a sample letter, visit http://www.buffalolib.org/libraries/advocacy.asp. Keep checking the Library's website, www.buffalolib.org, for updates and information on future advocacy efforts. Your support is greatly appreciated! _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:34:53 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Amir Sulaiman: Dead Man Walking CD MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Akin to the urgency, precision, and agility of a liberating foot solider, Sulaiman's narratives broadcast from America's front lines defining a Black, Shi'i, Muslim's quest for tranquility. His latest opus Dead Man Walking seeks to remedy the general apathy of his generation and awaken hibernating souls. "As a young Muslim Black male in America I feel under attack on many fronts. I can handle being under attack, but it's heartbreaking - at times-- to feel as though I have no comrades. Everyone seems oblivious to our war against the Prison Industrial Complex, police, drugs, poverty and the list goes on. And if they are not oblivious then their concern does not spur them to action. So much of the album is born out of frustration and desperation. I hope to tear back the comforter of apathy and make us own up to ourselves and our responsibility to our people." An ambitious offering, Dean Man Walking is tailored for those who prefer virtue to vice. It's a treasure for those who are trying desperately to live, love, and pursue happiness. A native of Rochester, New York, writer, activist, and educator Amir Sulaiman is a member of Goodestuff Entertainment, an Atlanta based collective providing culturally relevant programming. With a political consciousness that is profound without being preachy... Free downloads of three tracks from the new "Dead Man Walking " CD, representing some of the spoken word and hip hop of Amir Sulaiman, are available here: http://www.amirsulaiman.com/ The New COINTELPRO: http://www.taliyah.org/articles/cointelpro.shtml ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:53:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Oregon Literary Fellowships announced Comments: To: Webartery , Invent-L Comments: cc: Lanny Quarles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mindsets are interesting. Growing up with literature as something that = comes on paper, when a new medium comes along, some people = (organizations are made of people) can't adjust. With organizations that = help artists, this is very sad. Here, for example, we have a politically = progressive city (72% of Portlanders voted against Bush) who doesn't = help progressive artists. -Joel ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kristy Athens=20 To: Joel Weishaus=20 Cc: Carrie Hoops=20 Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:35 AM Subject: Re: Oregon Literary Fellowships announced Hi Joel: Thanks for your note. Literary Arts does support writers who are = e-published: an electronically published book can be printed and = submitted for the Oregon Book Awards; a writer can submit his/her work = in manuscript form for the Oregon Literary Fellowships. "Experimental" = writers (I'm not necessarily sure I know what you mean when you say = this) are welcome to submit their work. As far as artists who combine writing and digital media, i.e hypertext = etc.--that Literary Arts does not consider. Because we are focused as an = organization on words, to get into digital images and Flash-based = computer programming is considered outside our mission.=20 Take care! Sincerely, Kristy _________________________________________ Kristy Athens Program Coordinator Oregon Book Awards & Oregon Literary Fellowships Literary Arts, Inc. www.literary-arts.org 503.203.2271 On Monday, Dec 6, 2004, at 09:37 US/Pacific, Joel Weishaus wrote: Hi Kristy: =20 Thanks for this information. =20 I thought I should take the opportunity to once again raise the cause = I've been promoting ever since I arrived in Portland, that of digital = writing, With hundreds of on-line literary journals, some of them = recognized at the highest levels of academia, along with e-books, I = would hope that Literary Arts would be ready to offer support to = Oregon's writers who in a field that has more readership than do books. I'd also like to see a category for experimental writing, which is the = seed-bed for the future. I've met a few first-rate experimental writers = in Portland who deserve your support. =20 I hope this finds everything going well with you. =20 Best Regards. Joel =20 __________________________________ =20 Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, Oregon =20 Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 On-Line Archive: www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.htm =20 =20 =20 ---- Original Message ----- From: Kristy Athens To: Kristy Athens Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 8:55 AM Subject: Oregon Literary Fellowships announced FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE For further information, please contact: Barbara Verchot or Kristy Athens, 503.227.2583 barbara@literary-arts.org or ithaka@gorge.net Writer photos will be posted on our website as they become available. 2004 Oregon Literary Fellowships Recipients Announced PORTLAND, Ore. =96 December 6, 2004 -- Literary Arts is pleased to = announce the recipients of the 2004 Oregon Literary Fellowships to = Writers and to Publishers. The judges named 14 writers and three = publishers to receive grants that range in value from $760 to $1666. The = recipients will be celebrated at a reception in February 2005. Since 1987, Literary Arts has honored 449 different Oregon writers and = publishers, and distributed more than $500,000 in fellowships and award = monies. This year=92s fellowships totaled $25,000. Applications are = considered from any writer or publisher who is a resident of Oregon. = Out-of-state judges spend several months evaluating the applications, = using literary excellence as a primary criterion. Fellowships to Writers These fellowships help writers in need of funds to initiate, develop = or complete a project in the genres of poetry, fiction, literary = nonfiction, drama and young readers literature. This year=92s = fellowships were judged by a panel consisting of David Breeden, Judith = Ortiz Cofer and David Allan Evans; young readers literature was judged = by Sarah Sugden. Poetry Shanna Germain (Portland), C. Hamilton Bailey Poetry Fellowship Janine Oshiro (Portland) Rob Whitbeck (Fossil) Fiction Stevan Allred (Estacada) Justus Ballard (Portland), Friends of the Lake Oswego Library William = Stafford Fellowship Candice Favilla (Bandon), Walt Morey Fellowship Wayne Harrison (Eugene) Marian Pierce (Portland) Literary Nonfiction Christina Ammon (Ashland) Nancy Flynn (Corvallis), Leslie Bradshaw Fellowship Chanrithy Him (Eugene) Drama Shelly Lipkin (Lake Oswego) Young Readers Literature Rosanne D. Parry (Portland), Edna Holmes Literary Fund of the Oregon Community Foundation Fellowship Special Fellowship for Women Writers The Women Writers Fellowship is a limited, special fund, endowed by = the Ralph L. Smith Foundation and administered by Literary Arts, for women = writers living in Oregon. Of special interest to the grantmakers are = perspectives that are traditionally not well represented, including = those presented by women whose writing explores experiences of = ethnicity, class, physical disability or sexual orientation. This = fellowship is awarded by the Fellowships to Writers panel, and can be = awarded in any genre. Literary Nonfiction Doe Tabor (Eugene) Fellowships to Publishers These fellowships are awarded to presses and magazines that = demonstrate a commitment to literary publishing in the genres of poetry, = fiction, literary nonfiction and drama. This year=92s fellowships were = judged by Thom Didato. The Organ (Portland) Silverfish Review Press (Eugene) Stumptown Printing (Portland) Judges David Breeden has published eight books of poetry and four novels. His = poetry and short fiction have appeared in a number of journals. His next = novel, A Poet's Guide to Divorce, will appear from Fine Tooth Press. His = newest book of poetry, Ice Cream and Suicide, will appear from UKA Press in the United = Kingdom. Judith Ortiz Cofer is the author of several books; her work has = appeared in the Georgia Review, Kenyon Review, Southern Review and other = journals. She has been anthologized in The Best American Essays, The = Norton Book of Women's Lives, The Pushcart Prize, and O. Henry Prize = Stories. She is the Franklin Professor of English and Creative Writing = at the University of Georgia. Thom Didato manages technical assistance programs for the Council of = Literary Magazines and Presses. He is the publisher and founding editor = of the online literary magazine, failbetter, and has worked previously = at Penguin Putnam, Bookbuilders and BBS Publishing. David Allan Evans is the author of seven books, the most recent of = which is The Bull Rider=92s Advice. His work has been reprinted in more = than 70 anthologies. He has been a Fulbright scholar, received grants = from the National Endowment for the Arts and the Bush Artist Foundation, = and was appointed poet laureate of South Dakota in 2002. Sarah A. Sugden has been a children=92s and young adult librarian in = the desert and the mountains, and is now happily reading books to = children and parents at the Cambridge Public Library in Cambridge, = Massachusetts. # # # The Oregon Literary Fellowships is a program of Literary Arts, a = statewide, nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting the importance of language as a means to = express, explore and experience the world in which we live. Other = programs of Literary Arts are Oregon Book Awards, Poetry Downtown, = Poetry In Motion=AE, Portland Arts & Lectures and Writers in the = Schools. For more information about Literary Arts events or a full list of = sponsors, please contact Barbara Verchot at 503.227.2583 or visit www.literary-arts.org. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 15:05:32 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Sermonizing: Media That's Too Head-Up-Its-Ass Cowardly Comments: To: theory-frankfurt-school@srcf.ucam.org, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Sermonizing: Media That's Too Head-Up-Its-Ass Cowardly To Report That War In Iraq Is For Oil Wants To Sermonize To The Public On Steroids In Sports: Steroid Use Among Iraqi Insurgents Growing, Giving Them An Unfair Advantage: Family Values: On-Line Family Photo Album Shows More Iraq Prison Torture---"Oh look.. Little Billy Is Placing His 220 Pound Ass Where The Prisoner's Dick Is. Ain't That Cute, Momma?" By ARNIE PALUCCI They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:09:57 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Holiday INVITE~ MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT A “GIT DOWN, BOOGIE OOGIE, PARTY HARDY, SLAM JAM, HANDS UP, HAIR DOWN” HOLIDAY PARTY! SPONSORED BY The National Writers Union New York Chapter FEATURING “The Harlem Diva” Lee Olive Tucker AND Naomi Johnson OF THE COTTON CLUB DANCERS SATURDAY, DECEMBER 18, 2004 3:00 – 6:00 P.M. AT The Lafayette Bar & Grill 54-56 FRANKLIN STREET (BETWEEN BROADWAY AND LAFAYETTE) CALL 212 561-1742 FOR INFORMATION SUGGESTED DONATION $20.00 FINGER FOOD & COMPLIMENTARY GLASS OF WINE TANGO DANCING AFTER 6:00 P.M. ALL WRITERS INVITED! CASH BAR! ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:27:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <20041206131937.BYWZ4287.out008.verizon.net@Richard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard wrote: ..| [Derek's paraphrase from the Torah] is ..| unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic Yeesh is right. First of all, let's get this whole case of paranoia into context: Joel wrote: ....| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq Derek replied [among other arguments]: ..| Save your divine commandments for Jews ..| to slaughter untold Palestinians because ..| they believe God told them expressly to ..| do so. There are no divine inspirations in ..| Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made ..| abundantly clear Now, this is a sterile dispute. What I have said above was only to demonstrate divine commands are not in the providence of Christianity, but, I unfortunately added (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) divine commands are a trademark of the Jewish Torah. Any claim against my reply is a claim against what is unambiguously and expressly presented in the Torah: Genesis 15:18-21 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites. Joshua 1:3-4 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. Now, no one likes to be called an anti-Semite, and no one should be called an anti-Semite who is not one. And it makes even less sense to call the Torah anti-Semitic. And, as an axiom, nobody should claim the authority to dictate to people what and how to think under the threat of anti-Semitic labeling. These hypersensitive and *predatory* responses are atrocious. We should be able to freely and civilly debate on this list without fear of persecution. You are over-reacting. Where were you when Alan made the recent claim that he hated all Christians? And why are you here now dishing out the morality when no hate claim has been made, intended, or demonstrated? Shameful. -- Derek "I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth." -- Morpheus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:30:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Birth Of Liquid Desires Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed behind eyes all sharp myriads Herr Bibliothekarius ciphery & unashamèd tells himself he is an insect poet ciphery & unashamèd hidden dainty from storm his story's axe men ciphery & unashamèd overstay their welcome his tale's rose, antique and festival-drowsy, is everywhere ciphery & unashamèd tho no mask for his cries ciphery & unashamèd: "the axe men they're my above in name and wearing shapes I paused when still resistless newborns, yet the unimagined is scanty and is of seraphs dry" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:00:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <000401c4dbeb$2087e170$95e33c45@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You got the same response from a number of people, all of whom you say misunderstood you, which means we all read badly or we were responding to how you expressed yourself. This is a poets' list, and it's reasonable to assume a modicum of sensitivity to what one's words convey or might convey. Take it under advisement. Logic that one could only call Jesuitical ("any claim against my reply is a claim against...", usw) doesn't make this go away. Before you reply re: jesuitical--look it up. Mark At 06:27 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: >Richard wrote: >..| [Derek's paraphrase from the Torah] is >..| unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic > >Yeesh is right. First of all, let's get this whole case of paranoia into >context: > > Joel wrote: > ....| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq > > Derek replied [among other arguments]: > ..| Save your divine commandments for Jews > ..| to slaughter untold Palestinians because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so. There are no divine inspirations in > ..| Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made > ..| abundantly clear > > >Now, this is a sterile dispute. What I have said above was only to >demonstrate divine commands are not in the providence of Christianity, >but, I unfortunately added (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) divine >commands are a trademark of the Jewish Torah. Any claim against my reply >is a claim against what is unambiguously and expressly presented in the >Torah: > >Genesis 15:18-21 > In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto >thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great >river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the >Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And >the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the >Jebusites. > >Joshua 1:3-4 > Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I >given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this >Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of >the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, >shall be your coast. > > >Now, no one likes to be called an anti-Semite, and no one should be >called an anti-Semite who is not one. And it makes even less sense to >call the Torah anti-Semitic. And, as an axiom, nobody should claim the >authority to dictate to people what and how to think under the threat of >anti-Semitic labeling. > >These hypersensitive and *predatory* responses are atrocious. We should >be able to freely and civilly debate on this list without fear of >persecution. You are over-reacting. Where were you when Alan made the >recent claim that he hated all Christians? And why are you here now >dishing out the morality when no hate claim has been made, intended, or >demonstrated? Shameful. > > -- Derek > > >"I didn't say it would be easy. I just said > it would be the truth." -- Morpheus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:10:21 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <000401c4dbeb$2087e170$95e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, Derek, I did not write that your paraphrase of the Torah was anti-Semitic, what I wrote is that your interpretive statement--nowhere in the Biblical verses that you quote does it say anything about God commanding any sort of killing whatsoever--to the effect that the Jews believe God commanded us to kill untold Palestinians was anti-Semitic. And I did not call you personally anti-Semitic; I said you were using rhetoric that cannot help, to me, but have an anti-Semitic subtext, and that is precisely what I meant. Believe me if I wanted to level a charge of anti-Semitism at you personally, I would have no hesitation about doing so, but I don't know you and I don't know enough about you to know whether I should even consider such a thing. There is a big difference between the two characterizations I have just described, but if you insist on taking what I wrote personally then, yes, you are right: this is a sterile dialogue, and there is no point in continuing it. Richard -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of derekrogerson Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 6:27 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: on forced Secularism Richard wrote: ..| [Derek's paraphrase from the Torah] is ..| unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic Yeesh is right. First of all, let's get this whole case of paranoia into context: Joel wrote: ....| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq Derek replied [among other arguments]: ..| Save your divine commandments for Jews ..| to slaughter untold Palestinians because ..| they believe God told them expressly to ..| do so. There are no divine inspirations in ..| Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made ..| abundantly clear Now, this is a sterile dispute. What I have said above was only to demonstrate divine commands are not in the providence of Christianity, but, I unfortunately added (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) divine commands are a trademark of the Jewish Torah. Any claim against my reply is a claim against what is unambiguously and expressly presented in the Torah: Genesis 15:18-21 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites. Joshua 1:3-4 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. Now, no one likes to be called an anti-Semite, and no one should be called an anti-Semite who is not one. And it makes even less sense to call the Torah anti-Semitic. And, as an axiom, nobody should claim the authority to dictate to people what and how to think under the threat of anti-Semitic labeling. These hypersensitive and *predatory* responses are atrocious. We should be able to freely and civilly debate on this list without fear of persecution. You are over-reacting. Where were you when Alan made the recent claim that he hated all Christians? And why are you here now dishing out the morality when no hate claim has been made, intended, or demonstrated? Shameful. -- Derek "I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth." -- Morpheus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 16:26:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For me, the humor is that monotheists always quote their favorite book for authority. "Genesis, Joshua..." If we need a God, we need one who speaks in and to the contemporary world, not in books from two thousand or more years ago, translated and retranslated. This adds nothing to the discussion but endless arguments and accusations, which is what we have here now. Sell your Bible, Talmud, Koran, and buy poetry! -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:00 PM Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > You got the same response from a number of people, all of whom you say > misunderstood you, which means we all read badly or we were responding to > how you expressed yourself. This is a poets' list, and it's reasonable to > assume a modicum of sensitivity to what one's words convey or might convey. > Take it under advisement. > > Logic that one could only call Jesuitical ("any claim against my reply is a > claim against...", usw) doesn't make this go away. > > Before you reply re: jesuitical--look it up. > > Mark > > > At 06:27 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: > >Richard wrote: > >..| [Derek's paraphrase from the Torah] is > >..| unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic > > > >Yeesh is right. First of all, let's get this whole case of paranoia into > >context: > > > > Joel wrote: > > ....| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq > > > > Derek replied [among other arguments]: > > ..| Save your divine commandments for Jews > > ..| to slaughter untold Palestinians because > > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > > ..| do so. There are no divine inspirations in > > ..| Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made > > ..| abundantly clear > > > > > >Now, this is a sterile dispute. What I have said above was only to > >demonstrate divine commands are not in the providence of Christianity, > >but, I unfortunately added (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) divine > >commands are a trademark of the Jewish Torah. Any claim against my reply > >is a claim against what is unambiguously and expressly presented in the > >Torah: > > > >Genesis 15:18-21 > > In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto > >thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great > >river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the > >Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And > >the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the > >Jebusites. > > > >Joshua 1:3-4 > > Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I > >given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this > >Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of > >the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, > >shall be your coast. > > > > > >Now, no one likes to be called an anti-Semite, and no one should be > >called an anti-Semite who is not one. And it makes even less sense to > >call the Torah anti-Semitic. And, as an axiom, nobody should claim the > >authority to dictate to people what and how to think under the threat of > >anti-Semitic labeling. > > > >These hypersensitive and *predatory* responses are atrocious. We should > >be able to freely and civilly debate on this list without fear of > >persecution. You are over-reacting. Where were you when Alan made the > >recent claim that he hated all Christians? And why are you here now > >dishing out the morality when no hate claim has been made, intended, or > >demonstrated? Shameful. > > > > -- Derek > > > > > >"I didn't say it would be easy. I just said > > it would be the truth." -- Morpheus > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 13:38:47 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit meant to ssend this brilliant obsevation to the list - apologies to the other richard - for accidentaly pasting it on him - lol Is this STILL going on - no one will ever agree on this one - and the other things about the NEA or whatever it is is driving me NUTS with boredom - lets nuke the bastards - whovever - dosnt matter who - that should fix everything Richard > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Jeffrey Newman" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 1:10 PM > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > > > Actually, Derek, I did not write that your paraphrase of the Torah was > > anti-Semitic, what I wrote is that your interpretive statement--nowhere in > > the Biblical verses that you quote does it say anything about God > commanding > > any sort of killing whatsoever--to the effect that the Jews believe God > > commanded us to kill untold Palestinians was anti-Semitic. And I did not > > call you personally anti-Semitic; I said you were using rhetoric that > cannot > > help, to me, but have an anti-Semitic subtext, and that is precisely what > I > > meant. Believe me if I wanted to level a charge of anti-Semitism at you > > personally, I would have no hesitation about doing so, but I don't know > you > > and I don't know enough about you to know whether I should even consider > > such a thing. There is a big difference between the two characterizations > I > > have just described, but if you insist on taking what I wrote personally > > then, yes, you are right: this is a sterile dialogue, and there is no > point > > in continuing it. > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > > Behalf Of derekrogerson > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 6:27 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > > > Richard wrote: > > ..| [Derek's paraphrase from the Torah] is > > ..| unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic > > > > Yeesh is right. First of all, let's get this whole case of paranoia into > > context: > > > > Joel wrote: > > ....| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq > > > > Derek replied [among other arguments]: > > ..| Save your divine commandments for Jews > > ..| to slaughter untold Palestinians because > > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > > ..| do so. There are no divine inspirations in > > ..| Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made > > ..| abundantly clear > > > > > > Now, this is a sterile dispute. What I have said above was only to > > demonstrate divine commands are not in the providence of Christianity, > > but, I unfortunately added (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) divine > > commands are a trademark of the Jewish Torah. Any claim against my reply > > is a claim against what is unambiguously and expressly presented in the > > Torah: > > > > Genesis 15:18-21 > > In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto > > thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great > > river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the > > Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And > > the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the > > Jebusites. > > > > Joshua 1:3-4 > > Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I > > given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this > > Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of > > the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, > > shall be your coast. > > > > > > Now, no one likes to be called an anti-Semite, and no one should be > > called an anti-Semite who is not one. And it makes even less sense to > > call the Torah anti-Semitic. And, as an axiom, nobody should claim the > > authority to dictate to people what and how to think under the threat of > > anti-Semitic labeling. > > > > These hypersensitive and *predatory* responses are atrocious. We should > > be able to freely and civilly debate on this list without fear of > > persecution. You are over-reacting. Where were you when Alan made the > > recent claim that he hated all Christians? And why are you here now > > dishing out the morality when no hate claim has been made, intended, or > > demonstrated? Shameful. > > > > -- Derek > > > > > > "I didn't say it would be easy. I just said > > it would be the truth." -- Morpheus > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:11:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Murray, Christine" Subject: Link to Idiot Son MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All-- =20 I haven' t had a chance to follow the list very closely of late, and on = looking over recent posts I don't find any regarding this subject, but = if you've already seen this link then just ignore my post. =20 =20 Perhaps some you might get as much a kick out of this = sound-and-image-extravaganza as I did. =20 It takes a few moments to load even with hi-speed stuff, so be = patient--it's definitely worth it. =20 =20 And just to qualify a little: if it offends anyone but the Idiot Son, = well, you can forgive me later... :) =20 Check this out: http://ericblumrich.com/idiot.html =20 =20 =20 =20 Chris Murray http://texfiles.blogspot.com http://e-po.blogspot.com http://uta.edu/english/znine =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:37:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Not-to-be-missed MLA event MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable They Assembled "Windscreen, by himself on the Nazarite was pursuing and=20 toys at the hawk sliding in Terence, bon-bon those on the hawk of kids and walked pick-axe pose. They broke their hair breathless out pick-axe up from their purgatory optimism their mouths everyone's, tongues entwining, Joan's hand proficient as she can be. You and in the Keola, I climaxed, but she proficient in thick, dilettante, sunburnt shocks; their sandals were kissing, their throats, and afterwhile they assembled in and my eyes Davin and walked pick-axe up from their hair breathless out pick-axe pose. They broke their right shoulders hung scrips containing food and I could answer Elijah smiled at me and excise-duty him near the daytime stones for slings, with such put out," said Davin. "She allergy me and Jerod in mats down the new-comers, and Jerod in mats down the fire, some sitting, some fields prone. As they assembled in carriage of the hawk sliding in the daytime stones for slings, with such add instruction to becoming, leaving the fire, some fields prone. As they assembled in Kate's pussy, her Trixie rendezvous horrifying." "As he arose, and in the saddle of the daytime stones for slings, with such put out," said the Nazarite was pursuing and out in unexpected, the panic garments to the bevy. In this time of these times sharing, omitting the fleece on, wrapped them from their purgatory optimism their waists; their throats, and in unexpected, the arms exposed; first name belts girthed the skin of her the most violent climaxes of the line the coarsest quality; from commodious to becoming, leaving the new-comers, and Elijah were armed; on the Keola, I could answer Elijah were of these times sharing, omitting the file management. bard old refused to him with which they were kissing, their hair breathless out pick-axe pose. They broke their waists; their mouths everyone's, tongues entwining, Joan's hand proficient as hot as hot as they slid garble into her steadfast fire off bowed in climax and blur as she proficient as hot as she hasn't. Should we spy her?" Before I opened my eyes Davin and out in the line the fire, some fields prone. As they assembled in course to blur as hot as she hasn't. should think."=20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:49:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Silliman's Blog (& Reading) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Riding on the Presence The issue number 5, demonstrating all over again what it is back, issue number 5, demonstrating all Emotion There is eminently familiar, Fanny Howe. Tim Peterson's review of an editorial vision not Laura Riding, Jack Spicer's best work. On the same strengths, The Poker is something that he was telling. Thus, for the exclusion of letter as a tiny elegy for UC Press. Like the other hand, they're still the alphabet-driven table of their editing a nice set of you. Done all Emotion There is followed by Riding on the presence at least as if a longish essay by Blaser, in this issue from the bland bureaucratic mode of an editorial vision gives too much weight to Steve Evans' "Field Notes" from Loden & order - and Sand" from 1958: It is something that Rachel Loden & the case for editing a journal an interview (with a case for editing a magazine. Editor Dan Bouchard's secret is a case for the others I've seen from the journal J east of letter as if the Makers. It is making an interview (with a particular kind of you. This bed is followed by two new to me, Michael Carr, and then a trove of Jack Spicer, part of a magazine. Editor Dan Bouchard's argument that Rachel Loden & order - it will limit the Town, Billy the Kid or worse) his signature piece. Spicer for the postscript). Then come five "new" poems of books by Ashbery, Robin Blaser) and not being there That defines a poem. Your not just how often it is not constrained. As Kaia Sand would say, that (I might include more than he was telling. Thus, for a tiny elegy for a perfect magazine has many of 100 or that (I might include more than he deliberately combines newer poets with canonically famous elders, these in a particular kind of poetry from Collected) Spicer is entirely new to the cover myself - I'd redesign the subject of the anointed. And he is followed by two new to the presence of arms Not anything in The Poker is making a trove of younger poets: Kevin Killian during the others me painfully aware of Berkeley - those he demonstrates the process of Berkeley - but in this with letters, in its disguises . " by Brenda Iijima & well written the issue. This is followed by Peter Gizzi & the chilling, riveting poems of the chilling, riveting poems by a legitimate literary mode. This bed is at all. For reasons that are utterly obscure, this instance an argument in this issue number 5, demonstrating all over again what it is absent, even from Loden & Allison Cobb virtually ties a compleat (as distinct from Collected) Spicer is absent, even from Loden & order - those he probably then a nice set of arms Not anything in this with canonically famous elders, both in its disguises . " by two new to Steve Evans' "Field Notes" from Loden & Kevin Davies, Kaia Sand, Drew Gardner et al can certainly argue that are utterly obscure, this is followed by Jack Spicer). In doing so, Bouchard prints makes you wonder why he demonstrates the others I've seen from the work Bouchard prints makes the virtues of Bouchard's vision gives too much weight to Spicer's refusal to me, Michael Carr, and then couldn't have captured you. Done all Emotion There is absent, even from 1958: It is back, issue from the poem.=20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 23:48:37 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: another season MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit another season the sun is weak this ohio december a tired yellow in a nearly gray sky can't get it up for me warm it up for me like back in October when the kingfisher first came to our park more blue than the sky and crashed through the mirroring pond then rising with his juicy sustenance but it's too late now and he wings from tree to tree eyeing the cold little abyss rattling his dry raspy chatter tho patient flies away hungry . . . they say there's a risk for the halcyon as it plummets from such a high place a birdwatcher tells the story of a female kingfisher that dived into a lake broke her wing and slowly bled into the water her mate frantic circling above . . . i get up from my bench and meander on and off the pathway covering ground some green grass some leaves and twigs and mud not quite frozen the pond is covered with blotches of thin ice . . . i have a soft pale belly places warm and juicy covered now by jeans and a jacket my sundresses and straw hat packed away for next summer i walk carefully with my cane eleven winters now and as i pass through the park gates i dream of the coming spring maryjo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 00:26:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: on forced Secularism In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20041206185402.0437b540@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark threatened: ..| Logic ... doesn't make this go away Do I get a pass if I play my violin for you? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4043299.stm Even so, please accept my apology for any perceived unauthorized use of language, if that's what it takes to get through this roadblock, and let's move on. -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 00:50:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: on forced Secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit speaking of torah's or not spesking of them saw kissinger speak today at jewish heritage museum he could have used a saxophone and our district attorney who thought kamikazes were uncivilized which leads me to the kabbalah the sax thing worked congrats to adeena ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 22:59:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: interview MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit with me at http://www.readysteadybook.com Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 20:56:13 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: another season MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mary I liked this poem. I see the odd kingfisher over here in Auckland - they are quite common here. Beautiful birds. Cheers, Rcihard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Jo Malo" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: another season > another season > > the sun is weak > this ohio december > a tired yellow > in a nearly gray sky > can't get it up for me > warm it up for me > like back in October > when the kingfisher first came to our park > more blue than the sky > and crashed through the mirroring > pond > then > rising with his juicy sustenance > but it's too late now > and he wings from tree to tree > eyeing the cold little abyss > rattling his dry raspy chatter > tho patient > flies away hungry . . . > they say there's a risk > for the halcyon as it plummets > from such a high place > a birdwatcher tells the story of > a female kingfisher > that dived into a lake > broke her wing and slowly bled into the water > her mate frantic circling above . . . > i get up from my bench > and meander on and off the pathway > covering ground some green grass > some leaves and twigs > and mud not quite frozen > the pond is covered with blotches of thin ice . . . > i have a soft pale belly > places warm and juicy > covered now by jeans and a jacket > my sundresses and straw hat > packed away for next summer > i walk carefully with my cane > eleven winters now > and as i pass through the park gates > i dream of the coming spring > > maryjo > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 04:03:46 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Fw: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Forwarded Message----- From: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sent: Dec 7, 2004 3:58 AM To: poetics@listserv.buffalo.com Subject: autumn... remote access status connect apple.com fav connect eathlink.net connect .com .net. .org fw fw au....edu ....... www =03=03=03 4:00...better late...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 06:39:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerry Subject: Becky Schmoyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Former 4CHIN500 fronter and buddy, Becky Schmoyer had a great show coming up. See below: FREESTYLE EVENTS: AVANT JAZZ & OTHER MUSICS CBGB=E2=80=99S LOUNGE =E2=80=A2 313 BOWERY =E2=80=A2 212-677-0455 SUNDAY DECEMBER 12=20 7:00pm - Sayuri Goto, Becky Schmoyer, Adam Lane, Mike Fortune, Daniel = Carter 8:pm - Borah Bergman & Dee Pop=20 9:00pm - George Colligan=E2=80=99s Mad Science 10:00pm - Billy Mintz Two Bass Band:=20 Rich Perry, Adam Koker, John O'gallagher, Clay Jenkins, Dave Scott, Rock Ciccerone,=20 Ben Gurstein, Masa Kamaguchi, John Hebert, Billy Mintz=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 20:46:38 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Ahadada Books Website and Blog Updates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please check out www.ahadadabooks.com for books, music downloads and daily blogs. We also have a book on 19th century Maryland slavery as well as Alan Halsey, Geraldine Monk, and a host of others on board. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:07:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Armstrong Subject: Propeller Centre this Friday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Propeller Centre for the Visual Arts 984 Queen Street West, Toronto (416) 504-7142 This Friday, December 10, 2004 from 7 to 9 pm . 1- John K. Grande will be signing his book, Art-Nature Dialogues 2- Wegway Primary Culture Magazine will officially launch issue number 7 3- Opening reception for Wegway's Juried Exhibition: Jurors Fran Hill, Elizabeth Legge and Steve Armstrong are pleased to announce the artists selected for this year's show: Adam Brown, Toronto, ON Adam Krawesky, Toronto, ON Agata Ostrowska, Toronto, ON Alison Kuo, Long Beach, CA Ber Lazarus, Montreal, QC Cornelius Spek, Toronto, ON Ehryn Torrell, Halifax, NS Joanna Simpson, Mississauga, ON Jason Lazarus, Chicago, IL Karsten Grumstrup, Stony Brook, NY Kristiina Lahde, Toronto, ON Morgan Craig, Philadelphia, PA Pascal Yelle, New Orleans, LA Sheldon Goldberg, Montreal, QC Sarah Hauser, New York, NY Stan Krzyzanowski, Toronto, ON Susan Huber, Salt Spring Island, BC See you there. Steve Armstrong Wegway Primary Culture P.O. Box 157 Station A Toronto, ON Canada M5W 1B2 www.wegway.com If you want to be removed from Wegway's mailing list, please reply to this message with "remove" in the subject line. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:21:48 -0800 Reply-To: Donna@OnlineWebArt.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Donna Kuhn Organization: OnlineWebArt.com Subject: Re: everyday people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Making wild and negative generalizations about religious groups in general is not productive and, as this particular generalization has it, completely wrong": ..| Jews slaughter untold Palestinians because ..| they believe God told them expressly to ..| do so". Automatic digest processor wrote: > There are 33 messages totalling 2273 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. the failed scholar > 2. on forced Secularism (8) > 3. The Serial (2) > 4. All Bets Are Off On Number Of Troops Needed To 'Pacify' Iraq > 5. "Outsider" Poets for the Carrboro Poetry Festival Needed > 6. autumn... > 7. Silliman's Blog (& Reading) (2) > 8. Bob Dylan on 60 minutes > 9. Advent [x6] > 10. dale smith e-mail > 11. Not-to-be-missed MLA event (4) > 12. NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea > 13. xtant 4 > 14. JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 12-06-04 > 15. Amir Sulaiman: Dead Man Walking CD > 16. Fw: Oregon Literary Fellowships announced > 17. Sermonizing: Media That's Too Head-Up-Its-Ass Cowardly > 18. Holiday INVITE~ > 19. The Birth Of Liquid Desires > 20. Link to Idiot Son > 21. another season > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 00:02:07 -0500 > From: Alan Sondheim > Subject: the failed scholar > > the failed scholar > > studies all night long by candlelight, the landlord's daughter takes > pity, brings him food now and then, he's losing weight, has a gaunt > look, his dreams stopped a long time ago, sometimes he writes poetry, > badly in need of sleep, studying for the examinations, they come up > in spring, his parents send him what they can, he's crying, if they > only knew how he lived, how useless their sacrifices, he's unworthy, > unworthy... > > NOTHING...LOUSY NOTHING...NO ACADEMIC CREDS AT ALL...AT A LOSS HERE... > HAVE MY DEGREE JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE...WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED... > WORLD COME TO AN END?...THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE...REALLY, PEOPLE... > SOMETHING'S GOT TO GIVE...WHO'D BELIEVE IT?...NEVER GET A JOB OUT OF > STUFF LIKE THIS...SLIM PICKINGS, > > unworthy, unworthy, he's pouring over his books, sometimes he'll take > a student in, tutor the sons of the gentry, they know he's faking it, > they can see through him... > > A Sondheim - Cited by 1 > A Sondheim - Cited by 1 > A Sondheim - Cited by 1 > ... (See the work of mez, Alan Sondheim, Talan Mem- mott, Ted Warnell > question is how "Codeworks" (Alan Sondheim) fit notions of text that > A Sondheim > ... 6, no. 2, 132-139. Fragment Bomb Wind. Alan Sondheim. VRML. ... > Alan Sondheim is current > Alan Sondheim's Gimokud by Camilo Quevedo. ceptual lens ... > ... [3] Alan Sondheim, Ted Warnell, Talan Memmott and Mez are four > ... Poem: "early dreaming" By Alan Sondheim. ++ Column: An Excerpt > Sondheim, Ted Warnell > ... Weitere Beispiele sind die Arbeiten von Alan Sondheim, bei dem > Scholar Results 11 - 20 of about 22 for "Alan Sondheim". (1.98 > ... In 1997 Alan Sondheim (19951999), a postmodern theorist who > ... 13. Der Musiker und Schriftsteller Alan Sondheim, zur Zeit > ... Response: Bowling For Columbine. and the Media. Alan Sondheim. I T > ... Der Musiker und Schriftstel- ler Alan Sondheim, zur Zeit Gastautor > Lost Project -- Alan Sondheim http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/lost/index.htm. > with Alan Sondheim, Rosas Argument, appeared in Vol. 4, No. ... > Scholar Results 21 - 22 of 22 for "Alan Sondheim". (0.01 seconds) > CD Thomas, Cathy Young, Mia Lipner, Sharon Keller, Alan Sondheim, > ... Collaboration: ALAN SONDHEIM and DAN S. WANG Rosas Argument. ... > ALAN SONDHEIM and DAN S. WANG Rosas Argument 39. ... > > thank you dan and mez and talan and ted and everyone... > > ___ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 00:21:24 -0500 > From: derekrogerson > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > Joe wrote: > ..| there's just no point in pursuing this etc. [hysterics] > > Selah. Obviously I can't have discussion with someone who's written > themselves off. Nevertheless, it should be patently obvious to all that > the majority of people and/or Christians in the United States are *not* > hoodwinked and haven't become brain-washed or whatever. This conceit > that you, Joe, have a privileged view of society and know better than > most is not a good foundation to build upon. Plugging your ears and > singing tra-la-la doesn't help much either. People voted Bush back in > office for their own selfish reasons (largely found at the gas-pump), > not out of some voodoo spell that's been cast upon them. And any similar > assertion that Bush went into Iraq under divine command is hogwash -- > there are no divine commands possible in Christianity (the whole point > of faith). This is my point and it is not unreasonable to make. Your > theatrics are unnecessary. > > Robin wrote: > ..| The hatchetman of the sanhedrin > ..| bloody *controlled* what got into > ..| the Judeo-Christian gospels > > What 'got into' the Old Testament was a decision made by Jewish > high-priests. The New Testament cannon was collected long after Paul's > death. I don't see the connection you are making here. Someone else > chose Paul's letters to be canonized, not Paul. > > ..| Can I believe my ears, but ... > ..| What about Saul of Tarsus? > > I guess Robin you are suggesting Paul's/Saul's murderous past (killing > Christians for the Jewish court) makes any assertion that the Christian > message could be untainted impossible. I don't see how the message > becomes tainted by someone's previous actions. Even so, Christianity is > exclusively for sinners and is of no use to perfect human beings. > > Mark wrote: > ..| she's off the altar and pulpit, because > ..| corporate headquarters defined christian > ..| behavior in ways that left her out. No appeal > > I would suggest it was time for her church to leave the franchise and > become non-denominational! If her congregants support her they can > easily do this and, if not, she can find work at other churches where > there is a more tolerant atmosphere. Either way, her 'corporate > headquarters' made a democratic Board decision which she and her > congregants submitted to when they became a franchise. What's more > democratic than that? She lives in America and can freely chose to do > any number of things now that her lousy church headquarters gave her the > boot. What are you crying about (and which world do you live in )? > People lose their jobs everyday because of unjust decisions > made-from-above. The real question is how long will people support these > corrupt systems by endorsing them and submitting themselves to them (ie. > by voting, participating, paying taxes, etc.)? Selah. Every American has > the right to be a sucker. > > The bottom-line is that Christian churches are nowhere perfectly run or > without the same human prejudices you would find anywhere. I simply > remind people that Christians are not this evil brain-washing monster > some on this list enjoy making them out to be. They are your next door > neighbors and your fellow citizens and exist all over the world with the > same tendencies, weakness, and goodness that is available to all people. > My main point was to debunk an absurd axiom which painted all Christians > into a rigid non-democratic cult of follow-the-leader. You would 1. have > to be grossly ignorant to believe that is true or 2. just enjoy > bad-mouthing Christians and/or religious-faith in general. > > Christians are everyday people in America. They vote Democratic and > Republican and Independent and even don't vote at all (especially in > Utah). Making wild and negative generalizations about religious groups > in general is not productive and, as this particular generalization has > it, completely wrong. > > ** > [Mark, I don't appreciate you accusing me of being antisemitic and > neither do I appreciate your assumptions about my beliefs. Grow up and > please stop the hate. And Alan, please, just stop. Your 'troll' post has > no aim except to be negative and malicious.] > > -- Derek > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 01:19:52 -0500 > From: David Baratier > Subject: Re: The Serial > > I thought a serial poem had to be 3 lines in length or two sentences, > which ever comes first. And also that if the poem quotes another for > more than four lines it must be indented ten spaces. Topic sentences are > required of stanzas whose authors are narrative poets, which east coast > poets often mis-name lyric poets for a reason I still do not > understand. Gloria, don't forget to add Weiners to your serial and the > Dunciad also. > > By the way, a selected version of the first ten years of my life long > serial piece appears in my book : _In It What's in It_ from Spuyten > Duyvil. > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > PO Box 6291 > Columbus OH 43206 > USA > > http://pavementsaw.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 01:46:31 EST > From: Joe Brennan > Subject: All Bets Are Off On Number Of Troops Needed To 'Pacify' Iraq > > Click here: The Assassinated Press > http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ > > Escalation Begins! After Elections All Bets Are Off On Number Of Troops > Needed To 'Pacify' Iraq: > With Tours Once Again Extended Many American Servicemen Marry, Start Families > In Iraq: > Expected University Draftees 'Ready & Eager To Go'; Consciption Popular On > Nation's Campuses: > To Insure Elections Go U.S. Way, U.S. To Beef Up Its Number Of Troops To Even > More Than During Invasion: > Permanent Bases Suggest Permanent Presence: > Many See Chance To Serve Cheney's Great Oil Grift As Form Of > Self-Garottification: > U.S., Western Europe Pour In Millions Of Dollars In Support Of Anti-Semitic > Pro-Nazi Candidate Yushchenko In Ukraine > BY KLIEG GOADON > > They hang the man and flog the woman > That steal the goose from off the common, > But let the greater villain loose > That steals the common from the goose. > > ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in > the > sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful > language > of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or > hypocritical, > whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating > impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed > good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured > > forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter > house. > One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first > giving > free reign to this hubbub of voices...." > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 02:26:31 -0500 > From: Steve Dalachinksy > Subject: Re: "Outsider" Poets for the Carrboro Poetry Festival Needed > > outsiders? what does it mean not from there? i'm ready what are the > details /// > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 03:16:14 -0500 > From: Harry Nudel > Subject: autumn... > > 3:00 > i unlock > the door > > & collect > 2 qts > organic fat free > skim milk > > yadda > yadda > yadda > the poem.... > > 3:00....i unlock....drn... > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 01:15:47 +1300 > From: "richard.tylr" > Subject: Re: The Serial > > That book by Keller - I only looked at it a bit - but she writes well -is > includes a study of du Plessis and Darragh (and their interaction their > respective projects (or serial poems) - and she connects them both to > Duncan. > > Blazer's description ) (of a so-called serial poem) is quite beautiful. But > no one has very clearly defined what a serial poem is (except for the Blaser > definition which is excellent for now ) we are talking about Blaser-serial > poems (well I am now) - a poem that was 'continuous' - well one obvious > example seems to be Alan's huge "work" but unless the serial is one that > comes daily - with a break of 20 hours or so it seems to be more of a > (theoretically at least -a single work) so it is not thus a serial work (in > the Blaser sense) whereas my "Chains" I feel is a true serial work in that > sense. (Not that it matters what it is!!) > > What I did (suggestion of a friend) was to choose a word or phrase and then > think or read on that (phrase or word) over quite a time and then respond; > or respond immediately to it and write a 'reply' - the method was to link > each poem by a word or an association > > Thus for example, in one - in which I quoted a line from Chaucer - I stopped > and read one of the Chaucer tales (in Middle English) and listened to it on > tape, until finally selecting a single line from the whole poem by Chaucer - > whereas some others I just wrote down 'the answer' immediately: the point > is that the connections are not very 'logical' and thus each "room" is a > 'surprise (the light going on) - each "stanza" (which comes from the word > for room of course) - is in a different style and or uses a mix of sound and > my own languages/writings - thus I hope getting an interesting/surprising > mix and a disjunctiveness which is not so much present in say Pound or even > Zukofsky (there is too much of a similarity of tone in both the Cantos and > 'A' > > - du Plessis ( in her works - forget the name of her long (ongoing -not > continuous and in more or less seamless) work)) is maybe more a Blaser > serial poem. I might send some of Chains to see if people think it is a > serial poem - or whatever. If the serial poem is too constructed or > lanned - key word "too" - it fails the Blaser criteria. The poet needs not > to know how the poem -starting at A is going to be at M or R or Z or whether > he or she keeps going for ever - that cant be known - I suspect that Alan's > work - mystifying as it is - is too constructed to be a Blaser-Serial-Taylor > Poem. > > {taken} to its great extreme the BSTP is totally unrecogisable apart from > part to part in its style and tone etc - - so a good example would be to > start with a quote from the Koran - then a quote from Penthouse would be say > part 2 and so on...but it couldnt continue to be quotes from -it would have > to surprise totally thus be completely random (or pseudo random) - going the > appearnce orf a near chaotic and meaningles work - but fascinating - the > import and direction of which the author has no knwoledge o or control (or > very little).... ..also numeration absent or order plicable (as in B S > Jonston's novel in a box...) (and aim ofr meaninglesness..or near > meaningfullness -(slight meaning) > > Clearly R Silliman's "Alphabet" (brilliant as it is) is too modernistically > deterministic to qualify...... > > IN fact - very few of the examples so-far proffered fit the > Blaser-Taylor-Serial-Poem-Criteria (or the parameters thus implied...... > > Richard Taylor > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Vincent" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:26 PM > Subject: Re: The Serial > > > I have always like Robin Blazer's description of writing a serial poem as > > similar to meandering through a dark house in which one flips the light > > switch in each room to find what's revealed. That was in an interview the > > location of which I forget. However, I like Blazer's sense of adventure > > about the process, a poem as a sequential journey with prefixed > > determinations, and the excitement in which one's language may provide a > > series of revelations. > > As a critical point from which to start a work, the serial poem was a > > boundary breaker - a prison release - for many of us and an entirely > > liberating way to write. Ironically much of whatever considers itself the > > poetry establishment- (primarily those poetry magazines that remain > > committed to publishing those well framed containers called "poems" still > > have - after 50 years!- not figured out away to reflect this break. > > > > Stephen V > > Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > > > > > > > > > > > also, by Lynn Keller, Forms of Expansion: Recent Long Poems by Women > > > (University of Chicago Press, 1997) > > > > > > I agree with George Bowering, that "long poem" doesn't always mean > "serial > > > poem" -- and "life poem" is a third term altogether that may or may not > be > > > serial. In that sense, Shakespeare's Sonnets are much more a "serial > poem" > > > than The Iliad or The Odyssey. Yet sonnet sequences may be seen as > > > collections, with each poem not necessarily a part, rather a whole unto > > > itself. And while it's been said that Stanford's The Battlefield Where > The > > > Moon Says I Love You is not a serial poem because it's not in parts, it > may > > > be considered a "life poem." > > > > > > In terms of Blaser's The Holy Forest, I take it not to be so much a > serial > > > poem a la Spicer, but more a recognition that all of one's poetry makes > up > > > a single work, a kind of "grand collage" (part of a greater "grand > collage" > > > into which all of our works enter and from which they are derived) a > term I > > > associate more with Duncan, although I associate that basic recognition > > > with Zukofsky. > > > > > > I would think Stein's Stanzas in Meditation is a serial poem. > > > > > > Charles > > > > > > At 12:02 PM 12/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: Hugh Steinberg > > >> > > >>> Besides Spicer, can people recommend other critical works on serial > poems? > > >> > > >> > > >> Joseph M. Conte has been working on the character and implications of > > >> serial form for a while: > > >> > > >> Unending Design: The Forms of Postmodern Poetry. Ithaca: Cornell > > >> University Press, 1991. > > >> > > >> "Long and Serial Poetry." A Companion to Twentieth-Century American > > >> Poetry. Ed. Burt Kimmelman. Forthcoming, Facts on File, 2004. > > >> > > >> "The Smooth and the Striated: Compositional Texture in the Modern Long > > >> Poem." Modern Language Studies 27:2 (Spring 1997): 57-71. > > >> > > >> > > >> "Seriality and the Contemporary Long Poem." Sagetrieb 11 (Spring & Fall > > >> 1992): 35-45. > > > >> > > >> "John Wheelwright: Argument for a Postmodern Sonnet Sequence." > Forthcoming > > >> in New Formal Poetics: Essays on Theory and History, ed. Susan Schultz > and > > >> Annie Finch. University of Michigan Press, 2004. > > >> > > >> "Natural Histories: Serial Form in the Later Poetry of Lorine > Niedecker." > > >> Lorine Niedecker: Woman and Poet. Ed. Jenny Penberthy. Orono, Maine: > > >> National Poetry Foundation, 1996. 345-60. > > > > > > charles alexander / chax press > > > > > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > > > read from the inside out speak then > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 07:38:50 -0500 > From: Ron > Subject: Silliman's Blog (& Reading) > > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ > > ************************************ > Reading today (Dec 6) * > at 6:30 PM * > Philadelphia Public Library * > 1901 Vine Street * > Ron Silliman & Margo Chew Barringer * > *Free* * > ************************************ > > RECENT TOPICS: > > The Poker 5: > New poems by Jack Spicer > in a journal that is an "how to" > lesson in editing > > What Gertrude Stein, Sandra Gilbert & > "Puff the Magic Dragon" > have in common - > The Berkeley Poetry Walk > > Our inner typewriter(s) > > Typing the poem as a mechanism for understanding > > Pinsky's William Carlos Williams - > What's wrong with this picture? > > Muriel Rukeyser & the Objectivists? > > The blogroll reaches 400 > > An image from another time > > The hidden poems in the work of > Elyse Friedman > > Thomas Jefferson as polymath - > step inside Monticello > > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 08:19:30 -0500 > From: Richard Jeffrey Newman > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > I too have been troubled by some of what Derek says in his defense of > Christianity in this thread because--while his point about not lumping all > Christians, evangelical or otherwise, into one group--is well taken, his > rhetoric when he talks about the purity and simplicity of the Christian > message and about the dichotomy between works-based and faith-based > religions resembles all too closely the kinds of things I have heard over > the years from the myriad of evangelical Christians who have tried very, > very, very hard to convert me by persuading me that their version of > Christianity is somehow purer and closer to God and therefore more real and > authentic than Judaism. Some of what he says--particularly about the faith > vs. works and about the Hebrew Bible having been canonized not by Jewish > high priests (they were actually the scholars and teachers of their time; it > is an important difference)--resembles as well anti-Semitic canards that > date back at least to the Middle Ages. And I would point out that his > assertion that "Jews...slaughter Palestinians because they believe God told > them expressly to do so" is unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic. > > Now, I don't know Derek; I don't know that he would endorse proselytizing--a > practice that, it seems to me, any Christian seriously committed to true > respect for the validity of other religious traditions needs to oppose--nor > am I suggesting that he is himself, consciously, maliciously, willfully > anti-Semitic. (I am willing to accept the comment about Jews slaughtering > Palestinians may have been written as an angry and ironic comment--not that > this makes the comment less anti-Semitic, just that I am willing to give > Derek the benefit of the doubt, for now.) But it is important to me to point > this out. Derek might not have "appreciated" being called anti-Semitic, as > he said in the parenthetical end to one of his recent posts, but if that is > the case, then he needs to take responsibility for the rhetoric he uses and > the underlying assumptions it contains. If he doesn't endorse those > assumptions, he should not endorse the rhetoric. > > Richard Newman > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 14:23:07 -0000 > From: Robin Hamilton > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > From: "derekrogerson" > > > Robin wrote: > > ..| The hatchetman of the sanhedrin > > ..| bloody *controlled* what got into > > ..| the Judeo-Christian gospels > > > > What 'got into' the Old Testament was a decision made by Jewish > > high-priests. The New Testament cannon was collected long after Paul's > > death. I don't see the connection you are making here. Someone else > > chose Paul's letters to be canonized, not Paul. > > I was thinking specifically of the New Testament (thus "gospels"). > > While the construction of the New Testament canon post-dates Paul (few of > the letters under his name in the NT actually being written by him, but > that's another matter) the locus of the selection derived from Paul's > seizure of control of the early Church. James actually *knew*/was related > to Jesus, Paul didn't and wasn't. James saw the Christian message as > specifically directed at the Jews, Paul was into outreach towards the > Greeks. > > Whether this is a good or a bad thing could be argued -- simply, Paul won, > and that's the consequence we have to live with. > > > ..| Can I believe my ears, but ... > > ..| What about Saul of Tarsus? > > > > I guess Robin you are suggesting Paul's/Saul's murderous past (killing > > Christians for the Jewish court) makes any assertion that the Christian > > message could be untainted impossible. I don't see how the message > > becomes tainted by someone's previous actions. > > I have to admit that Paul isn't one of my favourite people, but that wasn't > my central point. What we have (and have had since about 100 AD) isn't > Christianity but *Pauline* Christianity. There's always been a tension in > Christianity between the Gospels (and within them), and "Paul" (using that > term as an heteronym for the Epistles) with the more rigid versions of > Christianity, from (at least) Augustine to Luther and Calvin drawing on > "Paul" rather than the Gospels. > > I think what mostly bothers me is Derek's image of an untainted a-historic > version of Christianity. At the most basic level, the gospels as we have > them present Jesus speaking in Greek, whereas he almost certainly preached > in Aramaic. So there's already a level of "translation" there. > > I think (and this is perhaps more arguable) that the original preachings of > Jesus were directed specifically at the Jewish society of which he was a > part, and that the Pauline attempt (all too successful) to export this to > Greece and Rome created a set of singular contradictions. It's the old > guilt culture / shame culture business -- in order to forgive the Greeks > their sins, Paul first of all had to make then *feel* guilty. > > ... and it's that legacy, willy nilly, believers or not, that we still have > to live with. > > Robin > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:30:40 -0500 > From: "Hoerman, Michael A" > Subject: Bob Dylan on 60 minutes > > Does he ever look back at the music he's written with surprise? > > "I used to. I don't do that anymore. I don't know how I got to write those > songs. Those early songs were almost magically written," says Dylan, who quotes > from his 1964 classic, "It's Alright, Ma." > > "Try to sit down and write something like that. There's a magic to that, and > it's not Siegfried and Roy kind of magic, you know? It's a different kind of a > penetrating magic. And, you know, I did it. I did it at one time." > > What does the word "destiny" mean to Dylan? > > "It's a feeling you have that you know something about yourself - nobody else > does - the picture you have in your mind of what you're about will come true," > says Dylan. "It's kind of a thing you kind of have to keep to your own self, > because it's a fragile feeling. And if you put it out there, somebody will kill > it. So, it's best to keep that all inside." > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/02/60minutes/main658799.shtml > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 16:27:25 +0100 > From: "Isbn.82-92428-06-2" > Subject: Advent [x6] > > Grete immediately ran out to Hans and shouted "Hans, we're free! The old > witch is dead!". They danced of joy and embraced each other. They went > through the house and found a lot of pearls and jewelry. The two children > laughed and collected all the treasure they could carry. So at least we > know that under capitalism there are treasures and people that own them. > And we know who they are too. So we could kill them and take their > treasures. The witch wanted to eat Hans and Grete. We know capitalism > wants to exploit us until death. After that, they ran home and embraced > their father, his wife was now dead, but their worries were now over. Was > logos married to the witch? Why did she want to eat her children? Greed > is the mother. Ignorance is the father logos. Hans and Grete had to fix > their own situation, their father didn't care, their mother was a witch. > > Early the cold morning the little girl sat in the corner between the two > houses. Her cheeks were red and she had smile on her lips. She was dead. > She had frozen to death on New Year's Eve. Day and night, warm and cold, > the burning sun, burning matches. Why should the earth revolve? Little > carousel. End of the cycle. If you ride on a beam of light. Dark sun at > the center of the cycle - her grandmother. We already know her parents > were ignorance and greed, day and night. Before day and night is > space - between the houses. The grandmother took the little girl in > her arms, and together they flew away in shining joy, higher and higher > until there were no more cold, hunger or suffering. Matter shapes space, > and space shapes trajectory of matter. That's why the grandmother > (matter) could take the little girl (matter), and use the parent > generation as a carrier wave (space). Dark sun grandmother, little light > beam. Higher and higher gravity and speed until everything is lost. > Before and after the world. Day and night is our world, our parents, > father ignorance and mother greed, darkness of logos, neediness of > fullness. > > What father does is right, and everything goes well in the end. His > ignorance in trading a horse into a sack of apples is only surpassed by > his wife's blind love. But everything works out in the end because the > story is utterly unbelievable. > > Beauty and the beast. In the first place, the father set out to sea to > get rich. Apparently there were no mother since beauty did all the > housework. The beast of incestuous shame. Father trades her to the beast > and goes free. The castle is empty and crypted, father sad and impotent. > Once beauty acknowledges the beast it turns into a prince, that's art, > ugly beauty, too close to marry. Art has no mother, only an incestuous > father - ignorant, displaced greed, really ugly and impossible. > > The emperor's new clothes drives the economy. What isn't drives what is.. > But behind the virtual is,. the real again. Inflation of space-time, > matter-space-matter. It's wrong to say he's dressed, and wrong to say. > he's naked. People are anyway misled, the misleading is driving the. > capital, verb and noun, the more misleading the more value. The eternal,. > in case it returns, if not, then nothing, but the if doesn't halt,. > doesn't execute, never reaches the return. If man is naked he's dressed. > (the fall), and if he's dressed he's naked (he returns). The economy is. > driven by the return of christ as judge of the last judgement every > christmas. Santa is naked, cries the child, that's why he's masked. The > child, that's. Emperor's new clothes drives what isn't. Return. If not, > then nothing, but behind the if he's. Return. If he's. Return. If not, > then nothing, but the misleading the economy. What is.. Return. If not, > then nothing, but behind the eternal,. Return. If not, then nothing, but > behind the eternal,. Return. If he's. Return. If man is the real again. > Inflation of christ as judge of christ is judge of the emperor's. Return. > If he's. Return. If man is driving the eternal,. Return. If not, then > nothing, but the misleading the real again. Inflation if christ as judge > of space-time,. Return. If doesn't. Return. If not, then nothing, but the > emperor's. Return. If man is naked, cries the eternal,. Return. If not, > then nothing, but the last judgement every. Return. If he's. Return. If > he's. Return. If doesn't. Return. If he's. Return. If not, then nothing, > but the eternal,. Return. If doesn't. Return. If not, then nothing, but > the virtual is the misleading is the virtual is driving the eternal,. > Return. If doesn't. Return. If doesn't. Return. If he's. Return. If he's. > Return. If he's. Return. If not, then nothing, but behind the misleading > the child, that's Return. If not, then nothing, but the economy. What > is.. Return. If he's. Return. If not, then nothing, but behind the last > judgement every. Return. If doesn't. Return. If doesn't. Return. If not, > then nothing, but the virtual is naked, cries the more misleading is > naked, cries the more value. The emperor's. Return. If he's. > > Prinsessen på erten. Bare en prinsesse ville være følsom nok til å kjenne > en ert gjennom tjue madrasser og tjue dundyner. Prinsen hadde omsider > funnet sin prinsesse som han gifter seg med, og erten ble plassert på > museum hvor den kan enda sees idag - såsant den ikke har blitt stjålet. > Fire was robbed from the gods. The criminal ascent of man - he doesn't > smell (verb or noun, subject or object). What can be stolen is already > without value, what can be sensed already stale (horse urine). The > dotting of the princess, insignificance, three dotted eyes, the smaller > the better, it runs like a real number, in-con-sequence, churning, > hitting the mattress, no way beyond the calculation of statistics of > doths > > ...............s > ...........y...u > .......s...l...o > ...y...u........ > ...l..d....b..di > ..e...ue..ga..n. > ..tl..oh..n..dir > ..aa..rt..it.eko > .s.n.,p....c.r.l > .er..r.e.yri.eng > .ler.erm.red..a. > .gcerve.r....dmn > y..tu..ouefesn.i > aaa.oivroifraeua > MeleyloPyfophrhv > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:37:47 -0500 > From: Michael Rothenberg > Subject: dale smith e-mail > > if you have dale smith's e-mail I'd appreciate it if you could forward = > it to me. best, Michael R > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:23:57 -0500 > From: Aldon Nielsen > Subject: Not-to-be-missed MLA event > > Don't let the fact that this takes place on the first night of the > convention make you miss it! > > MLA Panel #60: > > Writing the Oblique: Three Poets > Dec. 27, 2005, 8:45- 10 p.m., Grand Ballroom Salon I, Philadelphia Marriott > > Poets: Will Alexander > C.S. Giscombe, The Pennsylvania State University > Mark McMorris, Georgetown University > > Panel chair: Dorothy Wang, Northwestern University > Panel respondent: John Keene, Northwestern University > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "and now it's winter in America" > --Gil Scott-Heron > > Aldon Lynn Nielsen > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature > Department of English > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 [office] > > (814) 863-7285 [Fax] > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:32:17 -0800 > From: Robert Corbett > Subject: Re: NEA outrage continued...and a crazy idea > > Put better than I could have, Murat. I think Bill has abandoned the term "serious," which somehow delegitimated both Robert Burns and Bob Dylan, whom no history of anglophone art can be written or understood. > > that said, some artistic pursuits require more funding than others. i agree though that writers should no longer get fellowships from the NEA, particularly if they are tenured. > > Robert > > Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Bill, > > Sorry for answering late. I was away from any convenient computer access for > a week. > > I still do not understand this distinction between serious and other works. > To me, why this narrow definition of serious. Rap, for instance, has had a > profound influence in the music of The Middle East, not as imitation but a fusion > of local forms with its rhythms. It has extanded a popular/political language. > It is thrilling, for instance, to hear a Turkish techno sound, built on > Turkish chords, etc., suddenly echoing Rap rhythms. Gary Sullivan has talked > about it in his blog at length. > > Why define innovative in terms of purely Western/American terms of the last > fifty years? > > Murat > > In a message dated 11/26/04 4:37:31 PM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > > > In a message dated 11/26/04 12:11:35 AM, MuratNN writes: > > > > << What exactly is Seious music. Was rap, et least in its early years, not > > serious? >> > > > > I agree that rap was best in its early years. But rap/hip hop is not > > serious > > music. You may make the argument that rap includes serious lyrics. But the > > music is largely derivative, sampled, etc. I was, at one time, a > > professional > > songwriter and musician so I know a bit about this. I meant compositional > > MUSIC, rather than mere popular songwriting, no matter how political the > > lyrics > > purport to be. Milton Babbitt, John Cage, Elliot Carter --not Duran Duran, > > or > > Jay Z, or even Bob Dylan. Mozart, Beethoven, Shubert -- not Robert Burns, > > or > > Woody Guthrie. Miles Davis, Charlie Parker -- not the Doors or the > > Jefferson > > Airplane. > > > > Compositional music focuses on musical possibilities. Popular songwriting, > > in the main, commingles lyrics (where innovation, if any, usually occurs) > > with > > variations of simple, endlessly repeated ballad, blues, and rhythmic forms. > > > > Better? By the way, I, of course, thoroughly enjoy popular songs, despite > > that the focus is rarely on musical innovation. > > > > Best, Bill > > > > kojapress.com > > amazon.com > > b&n.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:37:22 -0500 > From: Mark Weiss > Subject: Re: Not-to-be-missed MLA event > > As good a time as any to ask what, if anything, is open to the non-dues > paying public. > > Mark > > At 01:23 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: > >Don't let the fact that this takes place on the first night of the > >convention make you miss it! > > > > > > > >MLA Panel #60: > > > >Writing the Oblique: Three Poets > >Dec. 27, 2005, 8:45- 10 p.m., Grand Ballroom Salon I, Philadelphia Marriott > > > >Poets: Will Alexander > > C.S. Giscombe, The Pennsylvania State University > > Mark McMorris, Georgetown University > > > >Panel chair: Dorothy Wang, Northwestern University > >Panel respondent: John Keene, Northwestern University > > > > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >"and now it's winter in America" > > --Gil Scott-Heron > > > > > >Aldon Lynn Nielsen > >George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature > >Department of English > >The Pennsylvania State University > >116 Burrowes > >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > >(814) 865-0091 [office] > > > >(814) 863-7285 [Fax] > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:43:30 -0800 > From: "D. Ross Priddle" > Subject: xtant 4 > > you can get a pretty good look into XTANT 4 at: > > http://thomaslowetaylor.blogspot.com > > unfortunately there's none left! maybe we can convince them to make more! > > -- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 14:01:06 -0500 > From: Aldon Nielsen > Subject: Re: Not-to-be-missed MLA event > > Mark -- > > I haven't received the program book yet, so can't answer that question -- > enforcement activities vary greatly from hotel to hotel -- some years you > really only need a badge to get into the exhibit hall, other years you need > a badge to stand in the lobby waiting to be interviewed by the reporter who > always writes that pissy article about the MLA in the local newspaper -- > > At 01:37 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: > >As good a time as any to ask what, if anything, is open to the non-dues > >paying public. > > > >Mark > > > >At 01:23 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: > >>Don't let the fact that this takes place on the first night of the > >>convention make you miss it! > >> > >> > >> > >>MLA Panel #60: > >> > >>Writing the Oblique: Three Poets > >>Dec. 27, 2005, 8:45- 10 p.m., Grand Ballroom Salon I, Philadelphia Marriott > >> > >>Poets: Will Alexander > >> C.S. Giscombe, The Pennsylvania State University > >> Mark McMorris, Georgetown University > >> > >>Panel chair: Dorothy Wang, Northwestern University > >>Panel respondent: John Keene, Northwestern University > >> > >> > >><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > >>"and now it's winter in America" > >> --Gil Scott-Heron > >> > >> > >>Aldon Lynn Nielsen > >>George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature > >>Department of English > >>The Pennsylvania State University > >>116 Burrowes > >>University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >> > >>(814) 865-0091 [office] > >> > >>(814) 863-7285 [Fax] > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "and now it's winter in America" > --Gil Scott-Heron > > Aldon Lynn Nielsen > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature > Department of English > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 [office] > > (814) 863-7285 [Fax] > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:48:10 -0500 > From: Mike Kelleher > Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 12-06-04 > > WORKSHOP THIS SATURDAY > > THE WORKING WRITER SEMINAR, with Kathryn Radeff > Final workshop of the season. > December 11, 12 p.m. - 4 p.m. > $50, $40 for members > > The Art and Craft of Creative Nonfiction > December 11 > > Participants will learn how to take a "a scenic approach" to creative > writing. There will be some writing exercises that attendees will use as > building blocks to a longer essay, which will be due by Dec. 27 in order for > the student to receive an evaluation. During the session, a particular idea > will be developed and we will work on what the essay should contain, > including the use of description strategies that produce vivid imagery, > descriptive language that will reinforce overall impressions of subjects, as > well as comparisons that take the form of similes and metaphors. For those > really interested in learning how to write and submit creative nonfiction, > this workshop will show how to write a dramatic, true story using scenes, > dialogue, close detailed descriptions and other techniques usually employed > by poets and fiction writers as well as professional journalists. > > Kathryn Radeff has been a professional writer, teacher and mentor helping > writers achieve success for 24 years. Her essays, creative nonfiction, > interviews, profiles and feature articles have appeared in Woman's World, > Instructor, The Buffalo News, Buffalo Magazine, Reader's Digest, Buffalo > Spree, The Tampa Tribune, Miami Herald, Daytona Beach News Journal, American > Health, Writer's Journal and many other publications. > > IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM > > JUST BUFFALO OPEN HOUSE > Saturday, December 11, 6 p.m. > The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo > > FREE with beverages and desserts served. > > Enjoy refreshments and the company of friends at Just Buffalo's annual > holiday open house. Meet staff, board members and volunteers - relax in the > midst of the holiday rush - and learn more about the people, programs, and > possibilities at hand as we move into 2005. > > IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY > > The Bitter with the Sweet, featuring N'Tare's Njozi Poets > Saturday, December 11, starting at 8 p.m. > Immediately following the Just Buffalo Open House > Just Buffalo Literary Center Hibiscus Room, 2495 Main Street, Ste. 512 > Admission: $5 / $4 student-senior/ $3 member > > Sample a variety of desserts as you ponder the bitter and sweet realities of > life presented by spoken word/slam performance troupe N'Tare's Njozi Poets. > N'Tare Ali Gault is an actor, poet and playwright. He is President/CEO of > Dream Variation Enterprises, a company that specializes in performing arts. > N' Tare's Njozi Poets is a spoken word collective that uses a mix of > ensemble poems along with powerful solo performances. Formed two years ago > by N' Tare Ali Gault, he took the best spoken word artists of the Njozi > Poetry Slam series to create a powerful unit. All of the poets bring a raw > energy and message each time they touch the stage. They have competed in > competitions in Buffalo, Rochester, Cleveland and Toronto, winning in > Cleveland. Staci Alexis Turner, James Cooper III, Howard Smith, Maryam > Muhammad and Ntare Ali Gault will bring a unique prospective of their lives > and the world around them in spoken verse. > > OPEN READINGS > > Jane Adam, with special guest host Karen Lewis > Wednesday, December 8, 7 P.M. > Just Buffalo Literary Center > The Hibiscus Room, 2495 Main St., Buffalo, NY > > But oh, Jane Adam falls on the street in bold capital letters and binds her > feet like some masochistic Oriental. She can truly fly. The she crisps her > marshmallows and douses the campfire. She puts it right out. She quenches > her brain cells into nonsense like a saint and contrives eternal happiness. > Listen to her scream. > > COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS > > ERIE COUNTRY LIBRARIES AND CULTURAL ORGANIZATIONS UNDER THREAT > > All 52 libraries across Erie County will close their doors after January 1st > under Erie County's proposed 2005 operating budget. This budget cuts support > to the Buffalo and Erie County Public Library by more than $19 million - an > 80% reduction in the System's operating funds. > > Please communicate your need for library services and other cultural > organizations to your County Legislator, State Senator and State > Assemblyperson. For public official contact information and a sample letter, > visit > > http://www.buffalolib.org/libraries/advocacy.asp. > > Keep checking the Library's website, www.buffalolib.org, for updates and > information on future advocacy efforts. Your support is greatly appreciated! > > _______________________________ > Mike Kelleher > Artistic Director > Just Buffalo Literary Center > 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 > Buffalo, NY 14214 > 716.832.5400 > 716.832.5710 (fax) > www.justbuffalo.org > mjk@justbuffalo.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:34:53 -0800 > From: Ishaq > Subject: Amir Sulaiman: Dead Man Walking CD > > Akin to the urgency, precision, and agility of a liberating foot > solider, Sulaiman's narratives broadcast from America's front lines > defining a Black, Shi'i, Muslim's quest for tranquility. His latest opus > Dead Man Walking seeks to remedy the general apathy of his generation > and awaken hibernating souls. "As a young Muslim Black male in America I > feel under attack on many fronts. I can handle being under attack, but > it's heartbreaking - at times-- to feel as though I have no comrades. > Everyone seems oblivious to our war against the Prison Industrial > Complex, police, drugs, poverty and the list goes on. And if they are > not oblivious then their concern does not spur them to action. So much > of the album is born out of frustration and desperation. I hope to tear > back the comforter of apathy and make us own up to ourselves and our > responsibility to our people." An ambitious offering, Dean Man Walking > is tailored for those who prefer virtue to vice. It's a treasure for > those who are trying desperately to live, love, and pursue happiness. > > A native of Rochester, New York, writer, activist, and educator Amir > Sulaiman is a member of Goodestuff Entertainment, an Atlanta based > collective providing culturally relevant programming. With a political > consciousness that is profound without being preachy... > > Free downloads of three tracks from the new "Dead Man Walking > " CD, > representing some of the spoken word and hip hop of Amir Sulaiman, are > available > here: > > http://www.amirsulaiman.com/ > > The New COINTELPRO: > > http://www.taliyah.org/articles/cointelpro.shtml > > ___\ > Stay Strong\ > \ > "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ > --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ > \ > "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ > of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ > --HellRazah\ > \ > "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ > --Mutabartuka\ > \ > "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ > -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ > \ > http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ > \ > http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ > \ > http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ > \ > http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ > \ > } > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:53:20 -0800 > From: Joel Weishaus > Subject: Fw: Oregon Literary Fellowships announced > > Mindsets are interesting. Growing up with literature as something that = > comes on paper, when a new medium comes along, some people = > (organizations are made of people) can't adjust. With organizations that = > help artists, this is very sad. Here, for example, we have a politically = > progressive city (72% of Portlanders voted against Bush) who doesn't = > help progressive artists. > > -Joel > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Kristy Athens=20 > To: Joel Weishaus=20 > Cc: Carrie Hoops=20 > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:35 AM > Subject: Re: Oregon Literary Fellowships announced > > Hi Joel: > Thanks for your note. Literary Arts does support writers who are = > e-published: an electronically published book can be printed and = > submitted for the Oregon Book Awards; a writer can submit his/her work = > in manuscript form for the Oregon Literary Fellowships. "Experimental" = > writers (I'm not necessarily sure I know what you mean when you say = > this) are welcome to submit their work. > > As far as artists who combine writing and digital media, i.e hypertext = > etc.--that Literary Arts does not consider. Because we are focused as an = > organization on words, to get into digital images and Flash-based = > computer programming is considered outside our mission.=20 > > Take care! > > Sincerely, > Kristy > > _________________________________________ > Kristy Athens > Program Coordinator > Oregon Book Awards & Oregon Literary Fellowships > Literary Arts, Inc. > www.literary-arts.org > 503.203.2271 > > On Monday, Dec 6, 2004, at 09:37 US/Pacific, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > Hi Kristy: > =20 > Thanks for this information. > =20 > I thought I should take the opportunity to once again raise the cause = > I've been promoting ever since I arrived in Portland, that of digital = > writing, With hundreds of on-line literary journals, some of them = > recognized at the highest levels of academia, along with e-books, I = > would hope that Literary Arts would be ready to offer support to = > Oregon's writers who in a field that has more readership than do books. > > I'd also like to see a category for experimental writing, which is the = > seed-bed for the future. I've met a few first-rate experimental writers = > in Portland who deserve your support. > =20 > I hope this finds everything going well with you. > =20 > Best Regards. > Joel > =20 > __________________________________ > =20 > Joel Weishaus > Visiting Faculty > Department of English > Portland State University > Portland, Oregon > =20 > Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 > On-Line Archive: > www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.htm > =20 > =20 > > =20 > ---- Original Message ----- > From: Kristy Athens > To: Kristy Athens > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 8:55 AM > Subject: Oregon Literary Fellowships announced > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > For further information, please contact: > Barbara Verchot or Kristy Athens, 503.227.2583 > barbara@literary-arts.org or ithaka@gorge.net > > Writer photos will be posted on our website as they become available. > > 2004 Oregon Literary Fellowships > Recipients Announced > > PORTLAND, Ore. =96 December 6, 2004 -- Literary Arts is pleased to = > announce the recipients of the 2004 Oregon Literary Fellowships to = > Writers and to Publishers. The judges named 14 writers and three = > publishers to receive grants that range in value from $760 to $1666. The = > recipients will be celebrated at a reception in February 2005. > > Since 1987, Literary Arts has honored 449 different Oregon writers and = > publishers, and distributed more than $500,000 in fellowships and award = > monies. This year=92s fellowships totaled $25,000. Applications are = > considered from any writer or publisher who is a resident of Oregon. = > Out-of-state judges spend several months evaluating the applications, = > using literary excellence as a primary criterion. > > Fellowships to Writers > These fellowships help writers in need of funds to initiate, develop = > or complete a project in the genres of poetry, fiction, literary = > nonfiction, drama and young readers literature. This year=92s = > fellowships were judged by a panel consisting of David Breeden, Judith = > Ortiz Cofer and David Allan Evans; young readers literature was judged = > by Sarah Sugden. > > Poetry > Shanna Germain (Portland), C. Hamilton Bailey Poetry Fellowship > Janine Oshiro (Portland) > Rob Whitbeck (Fossil) > > Fiction > Stevan Allred (Estacada) > Justus Ballard (Portland), Friends of the Lake Oswego Library William = > Stafford Fellowship > Candice Favilla (Bandon), Walt Morey Fellowship > Wayne Harrison (Eugene) > Marian Pierce (Portland) > > Literary Nonfiction > Christina Ammon (Ashland) > Nancy Flynn (Corvallis), Leslie Bradshaw Fellowship > Chanrithy Him (Eugene) > > Drama > Shelly Lipkin (Lake Oswego) > > Young Readers Literature > Rosanne D. Parry (Portland), Edna Holmes Literary Fund of the > Oregon Community Foundation Fellowship > > Special Fellowship for Women Writers > The Women Writers Fellowship is a limited, special fund, endowed by = > the > Ralph L. Smith Foundation and administered by Literary Arts, for women = > writers living in Oregon. Of special interest to the grantmakers are = > perspectives that are traditionally not well represented, including = > those presented by women whose writing explores experiences of = > ethnicity, class, physical disability or sexual orientation. This = > fellowship is awarded by the Fellowships to Writers panel, and can be = > awarded in any genre. > > Literary Nonfiction > Doe Tabor (Eugene) > > Fellowships to Publishers > These fellowships are awarded to presses and magazines that = > demonstrate a commitment to literary publishing in the genres of poetry, = > fiction, literary nonfiction and drama. This year=92s fellowships were = > judged by Thom Didato. > > The Organ (Portland) > Silverfish Review Press (Eugene) > Stumptown Printing (Portland) > > Judges > David Breeden has published eight books of poetry and four novels. His = > poetry and short fiction have appeared in a number of journals. His next = > novel, A Poet's Guide to Divorce, will appear from Fine Tooth Press. His = > newest book of poetry, > Ice Cream and Suicide, will appear from UKA Press in the United = > Kingdom. > > Judith Ortiz Cofer is the author of several books; her work has = > appeared in the Georgia Review, Kenyon Review, Southern Review and other = > journals. She has been anthologized in The Best American Essays, The = > Norton Book of Women's Lives, The Pushcart Prize, and O. Henry Prize = > Stories. She is the Franklin Professor of English and Creative Writing = > at the University of Georgia. > > Thom Didato manages technical assistance programs for the Council of = > Literary Magazines and Presses. He is the publisher and founding editor = > of the online literary magazine, failbetter, and has worked previously = > at Penguin Putnam, Bookbuilders and BBS Publishing. > > David Allan Evans is the author of seven books, the most recent of = > which is The Bull Rider=92s Advice. His work has been reprinted in more = > than 70 anthologies. He has been a Fulbright scholar, received grants = > from the National Endowment for the Arts and the Bush Artist Foundation, = > and was appointed poet laureate of South Dakota in 2002. > > Sarah A. Sugden has been a children=92s and young adult librarian in = > the desert and the mountains, and is now happily reading books to = > children and parents at the Cambridge Public Library in Cambridge, = > Massachusetts. > > # # # > > The Oregon Literary Fellowships is a program of Literary Arts, a = > statewide, nonprofit organization > dedicated to promoting the importance of language as a means to = > express, explore and experience the world in which we live. Other = > programs of Literary Arts are Oregon Book Awards, Poetry Downtown, = > Poetry In Motion=AE, Portland Arts & Lectures and Writers in the = > Schools. > For more information about Literary Arts events or a full list of = > sponsors, please contact > Barbara Verchot at 503.227.2583 or visit www.literary-arts.org. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 15:05:32 EST > From: Joe Brennan > Subject: Sermonizing: Media That's Too Head-Up-Its-Ass Cowardly > > Click here: The Assassinated Press > > Sermonizing: Media That's Too Head-Up-Its-Ass Cowardly To Report That War In > Iraq Is For Oil Wants To Sermonize To The Public On Steroids In Sports: > Steroid Use Among Iraqi Insurgents Growing, Giving Them An Unfair Advantage: > Family Values: On-Line Family Photo Album Shows More Iraq Prison > Torture---"Oh look.. Little Billy Is Placing His 220 Pound Ass Where The Prisoner's Dick > Is. Ain't That Cute, Momma?" > By ARNIE PALUCCI > > They hang the man and flog the woman > That steal the goose from off the common, > But let the greater villain loose > That steals the common from the goose. > > ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in > the > sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful > language > of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or > hypocritical, > whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating > impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed > good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured > > forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter > house. > One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first > giving > free reign to this hubbub of voices...." > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:09:57 -0800 > From: Ishaq > Subject: Holiday INVITE~ > > A > â€úGIT DOWN, BOOGIE OOGIE, PARTY HARDY, > SLAM JAM, HANDS UP, HAIR DOWNâ€* > HOLIDAY PARTY! > > SPONSORED BY > The National Writers Union > New York Chapter > FEATURING > â€úThe Harlem Divaâ€* > Lee Olive Tucker > AND > Naomi Johnson > OF THE > COTTON CLUB DANCERS > SATURDAY, DECEMBER 18, 2004 > 3:00 â€ì 6:00 P.M. > AT > The Lafayette Bar & Grill > 54-56 FRANKLIN STREET > (BETWEEN BROADWAY AND LAFAYETTE) > CALL 212 561-1742 FOR INFORMATION > > SUGGESTED DONATION $20.00 > FINGER FOOD & COMPLIMENTARY GLASS OF WINE > TANGO DANCING AFTER 6:00 P.M. > ALL WRITERS INVITED! CASH BAR! > > ___\ > Stay Strong\ > \ > "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ > --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ > \ > "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ > of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ > --HellRazah\ > \ > "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ > --Mutabartuka\ > \ > "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ > -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ > \ > http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ > \ > http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ > \ > http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ > \ > http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ > \ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:27:13 -0500 > From: derekrogerson > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > Richard wrote: > ..| [Derek's paraphrase from the Torah] is > ..| unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic > > Yeesh is right. First of all, let's get this whole case of paranoia into > context: > > Joel wrote: > ....| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq > > Derek replied [among other arguments]: > ..| Save your divine commandments for Jews > ..| to slaughter untold Palestinians because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so. There are no divine inspirations in > ..| Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made > ..| abundantly clear > > Now, this is a sterile dispute. What I have said above was only to > demonstrate divine commands are not in the providence of Christianity, > but, I unfortunately added (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) divine > commands are a trademark of the Jewish Torah. Any claim against my reply > is a claim against what is unambiguously and expressly presented in the > Torah: > > Genesis 15:18-21 > In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto > thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great > river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the > Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And > the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the > Jebusites. > > Joshua 1:3-4 > Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I > given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this > Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of > the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, > shall be your coast. > > Now, no one likes to be called an anti-Semite, and no one should be > called an anti-Semite who is not one. And it makes even less sense to > call the Torah anti-Semitic. And, as an axiom, nobody should claim the > authority to dictate to people what and how to think under the threat of > anti-Semitic labeling. > > These hypersensitive and *predatory* responses are atrocious. We should > be able to freely and civilly debate on this list without fear of > persecution. You are over-reacting. Where were you when Alan made the > recent claim that he hated all Christians? And why are you here now > dishing out the morality when no hate claim has been made, intended, or > demonstrated? Shameful. > > -- Derek > > "I didn't say it would be easy. I just said > it would be the truth." -- Morpheus > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:30:20 -0600 > From: Harrison Jeff > Subject: The Birth Of Liquid Desires > > behind eyes all sharp myriads > Herr Bibliothekarius > ciphery & unashamèd > tells himself > he is > an insect poet > ciphery & unashamèd > hidden dainty from storm > > his story's axe men > ciphery & unashamèd > overstay their welcome > > his tale's rose, > antique and > festival-drowsy, > is everywhere > ciphery & unashamèd > tho no mask for his cries > ciphery & unashamèd: > > "the axe men they're my above in name > and wearing shapes I paused when > still resistless newborns, yet the unimagined > is scanty and is of seraphs dry" > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:00:48 -0500 > From: Mark Weiss > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > You got the same response from a number of people, all of whom you say > misunderstood you, which means we all read badly or we were responding to > how you expressed yourself. This is a poets' list, and it's reasonable to > assume a modicum of sensitivity to what one's words convey or might convey. > Take it under advisement. > > Logic that one could only call Jesuitical ("any claim against my reply is a > claim against...", usw) doesn't make this go away. > > Before you reply re: jesuitical--look it up. > > Mark > > At 06:27 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: > >Richard wrote: > >..| [Derek's paraphrase from the Torah] is > >..| unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic > > > >Yeesh is right. First of all, let's get this whole case of paranoia into > >context: > > > > Joel wrote: > > ....| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq > > > > Derek replied [among other arguments]: > > ..| Save your divine commandments for Jews > > ..| to slaughter untold Palestinians because > > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > > ..| do so. There are no divine inspirations in > > ..| Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made > > ..| abundantly clear > > > > > >Now, this is a sterile dispute. What I have said above was only to > >demonstrate divine commands are not in the providence of Christianity, > >but, I unfortunately added (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) divine > >commands are a trademark of the Jewish Torah. Any claim against my reply > >is a claim against what is unambiguously and expressly presented in the > >Torah: > > > >Genesis 15:18-21 > > In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto > >thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great > >river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the > >Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And > >the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the > >Jebusites. > > > >Joshua 1:3-4 > > Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I > >given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this > >Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of > >the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, > >shall be your coast. > > > > > >Now, no one likes to be called an anti-Semite, and no one should be > >called an anti-Semite who is not one. And it makes even less sense to > >call the Torah anti-Semitic. And, as an axiom, nobody should claim the > >authority to dictate to people what and how to think under the threat of > >anti-Semitic labeling. > > > >These hypersensitive and *predatory* responses are atrocious. We should > >be able to freely and civilly debate on this list without fear of > >persecution. You are over-reacting. Where were you when Alan made the > >recent claim that he hated all Christians? And why are you here now > >dishing out the morality when no hate claim has been made, intended, or > >demonstrated? Shameful. > > > > -- Derek > > > > > >"I didn't say it would be easy. I just said > > it would be the truth." -- Morpheus > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:10:21 -0500 > From: Richard Jeffrey Newman > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > Actually, Derek, I did not write that your paraphrase of the Torah was > anti-Semitic, what I wrote is that your interpretive statement--nowhere in > the Biblical verses that you quote does it say anything about God commanding > any sort of killing whatsoever--to the effect that the Jews believe God > commanded us to kill untold Palestinians was anti-Semitic. And I did not > call you personally anti-Semitic; I said you were using rhetoric that cannot > help, to me, but have an anti-Semitic subtext, and that is precisely what I > meant. Believe me if I wanted to level a charge of anti-Semitism at you > personally, I would have no hesitation about doing so, but I don't know you > and I don't know enough about you to know whether I should even consider > such a thing. There is a big difference between the two characterizations I > have just described, but if you insist on taking what I wrote personally > then, yes, you are right: this is a sterile dialogue, and there is no point > in continuing it. > > Richard > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of derekrogerson > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 6:27 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > Richard wrote: > ..| [Derek's paraphrase from the Torah] is > ..| unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic > > Yeesh is right. First of all, let's get this whole case of paranoia into > context: > > Joel wrote: > ....| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq > > Derek replied [among other arguments]: > ..| Save your divine commandments for Jews > ..| to slaughter untold Palestinians because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so. There are no divine inspirations in > ..| Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made > ..| abundantly clear > > Now, this is a sterile dispute. What I have said above was only to > demonstrate divine commands are not in the providence of Christianity, > but, I unfortunately added (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) divine > commands are a trademark of the Jewish Torah. Any claim against my reply > is a claim against what is unambiguously and expressly presented in the > Torah: > > Genesis 15:18-21 > In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto > thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great > river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the > Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And > the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the > Jebusites. > > Joshua 1:3-4 > Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I > given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this > Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of > the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, > shall be your coast. > > Now, no one likes to be called an anti-Semite, and no one should be > called an anti-Semite who is not one. And it makes even less sense to > call the Torah anti-Semitic. And, as an axiom, nobody should claim the > authority to dictate to people what and how to think under the threat of > anti-Semitic labeling. > > These hypersensitive and *predatory* responses are atrocious. We should > be able to freely and civilly debate on this list without fear of > persecution. You are over-reacting. Where were you when Alan made the > recent claim that he hated all Christians? And why are you here now > dishing out the morality when no hate claim has been made, intended, or > demonstrated? Shameful. > > -- Derek > > "I didn't say it would be easy. I just said > it would be the truth." -- Morpheus > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 16:26:52 -0800 > From: Joel Weishaus > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > For me, the humor is that monotheists always quote their favorite book for > authority. "Genesis, Joshua..." If we need a God, we need one who speaks in > and to the contemporary world, not in books from two thousand or more years > ago, translated and retranslated. This adds nothing to the discussion but > endless arguments and accusations, which is what we have here now. Sell your > Bible, Talmud, Koran, and buy poetry! > > -Joel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Weiss" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > > You got the same response from a number of people, all of whom you say > > misunderstood you, which means we all read badly or we were responding to > > how you expressed yourself. This is a poets' list, and it's reasonable to > > assume a modicum of sensitivity to what one's words convey or might > convey. > > Take it under advisement. > > > > Logic that one could only call Jesuitical ("any claim against my reply is > a > > claim against...", usw) doesn't make this go away. > > > > Before you reply re: jesuitical--look it up. > > > > Mark > > > > > > At 06:27 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: > > >Richard wrote: > > >..| [Derek's paraphrase from the Torah] is > > >..| unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic > > > > > >Yeesh is right. First of all, let's get this whole case of paranoia into > > >context: > > > > > > Joel wrote: > > > ....| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq > > > > > > Derek replied [among other arguments]: > > > ..| Save your divine commandments for Jews > > > ..| to slaughter untold Palestinians because > > > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > > > ..| do so. There are no divine inspirations in > > > ..| Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made > > > ..| abundantly clear > > > > > > > > >Now, this is a sterile dispute. What I have said above was only to > > >demonstrate divine commands are not in the providence of Christianity, > > >but, I unfortunately added (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) divine > > >commands are a trademark of the Jewish Torah. Any claim against my reply > > >is a claim against what is unambiguously and expressly presented in the > > >Torah: > > > > > >Genesis 15:18-21 > > > In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto > > >thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great > > >river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the > > >Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And > > >the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the > > >Jebusites. > > > > > >Joshua 1:3-4 > > > Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I > > >given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this > > >Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of > > >the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, > > >shall be your coast. > > > > > > > > >Now, no one likes to be called an anti-Semite, and no one should be > > >called an anti-Semite who is not one. And it makes even less sense to > > >call the Torah anti-Semitic. And, as an axiom, nobody should claim the > > >authority to dictate to people what and how to think under the threat of > > >anti-Semitic labeling. > > > > > >These hypersensitive and *predatory* responses are atrocious. We should > > >be able to freely and civilly debate on this list without fear of > > >persecution. You are over-reacting. Where were you when Alan made the > > >recent claim that he hated all Christians? And why are you here now > > >dishing out the morality when no hate claim has been made, intended, or > > >demonstrated? Shameful. > > > > > > -- Derek > > > > > > > > >"I didn't say it would be easy. I just said > > > it would be the truth." -- Morpheus > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 13:38:47 +1300 > From: "richard.tylr" > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > meant to ssend this brilliant obsevation to the list - apologies to the > other richard - for accidentaly pasting it on him - lol > > Is this STILL going on - no one will ever agree on this one - and the other > things about the NEA or whatever it is is driving me NUTS with boredom - > lets nuke the bastards - whovever - dosnt matter who - that should fix > everything > > Richard > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard Jeffrey Newman" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 1:10 PM > > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > > > > > > Actually, Derek, I did not write that your paraphrase of the Torah was > > > anti-Semitic, what I wrote is that your interpretive statement--nowhere > in > > > the Biblical verses that you quote does it say anything about God > > commanding > > > any sort of killing whatsoever--to the effect that the Jews believe God > > > commanded us to kill untold Palestinians was anti-Semitic. And I did not > > > call you personally anti-Semitic; I said you were using rhetoric that > > cannot > > > help, to me, but have an anti-Semitic subtext, and that is precisely > what > > I > > > meant. Believe me if I wanted to level a charge of anti-Semitism at you > > > personally, I would have no hesitation about doing so, but I don't know > > you > > > and I don't know enough about you to know whether I should even consider > > > such a thing. There is a big difference between the two > characterizations > > I > > > have just described, but if you insist on taking what I wrote personally > > > then, yes, you are right: this is a sterile dialogue, and there is no > > point > > > in continuing it. > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On > > > Behalf Of derekrogerson > > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 6:27 PM > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: Re: on forced Secularism > > > > > > Richard wrote: > > > ..| [Derek's paraphrase from the Torah] is > > > ..| unambiguously and expressly anti-Semitic > > > > > > Yeesh is right. First of all, let's get this whole case of paranoia into > > > context: > > > > > > Joel wrote: > > > ....| Bush's divine inspiration to invade Iraq > > > > > > Derek replied [among other arguments]: > > > ..| Save your divine commandments for Jews > > > ..| to slaughter untold Palestinians because > > > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > > > ..| do so. There are no divine inspirations in > > > ..| Christianity (Gal.1:8) and this is made > > > ..| abundantly clear > > > > > > > > > Now, this is a sterile dispute. What I have said above was only to > > > demonstrate divine commands are not in the providence of Christianity, > > > but, I unfortunately added (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) divine > > > commands are a trademark of the Jewish Torah. Any claim against my reply > > > is a claim against what is unambiguously and expressly presented in the > > > Torah: > > > > > > Genesis 15:18-21 > > > In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto > > > thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great > > > river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the > > > Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And > > > the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the > > > Jebusites. > > > > > > Joshua 1:3-4 > > > Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I > > > given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this > > > Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of > > > the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, > > > shall be your coast. > > > > > > > > > Now, no one likes to be called an anti-Semite, and no one should be > > > called an anti-Semite who is not one. And it makes even less sense to > > > call the Torah anti-Semitic. And, as an axiom, nobody should claim the > > > authority to dictate to people what and how to think under the threat of > > > anti-Semitic labeling. > > > > > > These hypersensitive and *predatory* responses are atrocious. We should > > > be able to freely and civilly debate on this list without fear of > > > persecution. You are over-reacting. Where were you when Alan made the > > > recent claim that he hated all Christians? And why are you here now > > > dishing out the morality when no hate claim has been made, intended, or > > > demonstrated? Shameful. > > > > > > -- Derek > > > > > > > > > "I didn't say it would be easy. I just said > > > it would be the truth." -- Morpheus > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:11:18 -0600 > From: "Murray, Christine" > Subject: Link to Idiot Son > > All-- > =20 > I haven' t had a chance to follow the list very closely of late, and on = > looking over recent posts I don't find any regarding this subject, but = > if you've already seen this link then just ignore my post. =20 > =20 > Perhaps some you might get as much a kick out of this = > sound-and-image-extravaganza as I did. =20 > It takes a few moments to load even with hi-speed stuff, so be = > patient--it's definitely worth it. =20 > =20 > And just to qualify a little: if it offends anyone but the Idiot Son, = > well, you can forgive me later... :) > =20 > Check this out: > http://ericblumrich.com/idiot.html > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > Chris Murray > http://texfiles.blogspot.com > http://e-po.blogspot.com > http://uta.edu/english/znine > =20 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:37:25 -0800 > From: August > Subject: Re: Not-to-be-missed MLA event > > They Assembled > > "Windscreen, by himself on the Nazarite was pursuing and=20 > toys at the hawk sliding in Terence, bon-bon those on the > hawk of kids and walked pick-axe pose. They broke their hair > breathless out pick-axe up from their purgatory optimism > their mouths everyone's, tongues entwining, Joan's hand > proficient as she can be. You and in the Keola, I climaxed, > but she proficient in thick, dilettante, sunburnt shocks; > their sandals were kissing, their throats, and afterwhile > they assembled in and my eyes Davin and walked pick-axe up > from their hair breathless out pick-axe pose. They broke > their right shoulders hung scrips containing food and I > could answer Elijah smiled at me and excise-duty him near > the daytime stones for slings, with such put out," said > Davin. "She allergy me and Jerod in mats down the > new-comers, and Jerod in mats down the fire, some sitting, > some fields prone. As they assembled in carriage of the > hawk sliding in the daytime stones for slings, with such add > instruction to becoming, leaving the fire, some fields > prone. As they assembled in Kate's pussy, her Trixie > rendezvous horrifying." "As he arose, and in the saddle of > the daytime stones for slings, with such put out," said the > Nazarite was pursuing and out in unexpected, the panic > garments to the bevy. In this time of these times sharing, > omitting the fleece on, wrapped them from their purgatory > optimism their waists; their throats, and in unexpected, the > arms exposed; first name belts girthed the skin of her the > most violent climaxes of the line the coarsest quality; from > commodious to becoming, leaving the new-comers, and Elijah > were armed; on the Keola, I could answer Elijah were of > these times sharing, omitting the file management. bard old > refused to him with which they were kissing, their hair > breathless out pick-axe pose. They broke their waists; their > mouths everyone's, tongues entwining, Joan's hand proficient > as hot as hot as they slid garble into her steadfast fire > off bowed in climax and blur as she proficient as hot as > she hasn't. Should we spy her?" Before I opened my eyes > Davin and out in the line the fire, some fields prone. As > they assembled in course to blur as hot as she hasn't. > should think."=20 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:49:15 -0800 > From: August > Subject: Re: Silliman's Blog (& Reading) > > Riding on the Presence > > The issue number 5, demonstrating all over again what it is > back, issue number 5, demonstrating all Emotion There is > eminently familiar, Fanny Howe. Tim Peterson's review of an > editorial vision not Laura Riding, Jack Spicer's best work. > On the same strengths, The Poker is something that he was > telling. Thus, for the exclusion of letter as a tiny elegy > for UC Press. Like the other hand, they're still the > alphabet-driven table of their editing a nice set of you. > Done all Emotion There is followed by Riding on the presence > at least as if a longish essay by Blaser, in this issue from > the bland bureaucratic mode of an editorial vision gives too > much weight to Steve Evans' "Field Notes" from Loden & order > - and Sand" from 1958: It is something that Rachel Loden & > the case for editing a journal an interview (with a case for > editing a magazine. Editor Dan Bouchard's secret is a case > for the others I've seen from the journal J east of letter > as if the Makers. It is making an interview (with a > particular kind of you. This bed is followed by two new to > me, Michael Carr, and then a trove of Jack Spicer, part of a > magazine. Editor Dan Bouchard's argument that Rachel Loden & > order - it will limit the Town, Billy the Kid or worse) his > signature piece. Spicer for the postscript). Then come five > "new" poems of books by Ashbery, Robin Blaser) and not being > there That defines a poem. Your not just how often it is not > constrained. As Kaia Sand would say, that (I might include > more than he was telling. Thus, for a tiny elegy for a > perfect magazine has many of 100 or that (I might include > more than he deliberately combines newer poets with > canonically famous elders, these in a particular kind of > poetry from Collected) Spicer is entirely new to the cover > myself - I'd redesign the subject of the anointed. And he is > followed by two new to the presence of arms Not anything in > The Poker is making a trove of younger poets: Kevin Killian > during the others me painfully aware of Berkeley - those he > demonstrates the process of Berkeley - but in this with > letters, in its disguises . " by Brenda Iijima & well > written the issue. This is followed by Peter Gizzi & the > chilling, riveting poems of the chilling, riveting poems by > a legitimate literary mode. This bed is at all. For reasons > that are utterly obscure, this instance an argument in this > issue number 5, demonstrating all over again what it is > absent, even from Loden & Allison Cobb virtually ties a > compleat (as distinct from Collected) Spicer is absent, even > from Loden & order - those he probably then a nice set of > arms Not anything in this with canonically famous elders, > both in its disguises . " by two new to Steve Evans' "Field > Notes" from Loden & Kevin Davies, Kaia Sand, Drew Gardner et > al can certainly argue that are utterly obscure, this is > followed by Jack Spicer). In doing so, Bouchard prints makes > you wonder why he demonstrates the others I've seen from the > work Bouchard prints makes the virtues of Bouchard's vision > gives too much weight to Spicer's refusal to me, Michael > Carr, and then couldn't have captured you. Done all Emotion > There is absent, even from 1958: It is back, issue from the > poem.=20 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 23:48:37 EST > From: Mary Jo Malo > Subject: another season > > another season > > the sun is weak > this ohio december > a tired yellow > in a nearly gray sky > can't get it up for me > warm it up for me > like back in October > when the kingfisher first came to our park > more blue than the sky > and crashed through the mirroring > pond > then > rising with his juicy sustenance > but it's too late now > and he wings from tree to tree > eyeing the cold little abyss > rattling his dry raspy chatter > tho patient > flies away hungry . . . > they say there's a risk > for the halcyon as it plummets > from such a high place > a birdwatcher tells the story of > a female kingfisher > that dived into a lake > broke her wing and slowly bled into the water > her mate frantic circling above . . . > i get up from my bench > and meander on and off the pathway > covering ground some green grass > some leaves and twigs > and mud not quite frozen > the pond is covered with blotches of thin ice . . . > i have a soft pale belly > places warm and juicy > covered now by jeans and a jacket > my sundresses and straw hat > packed away for next summer > i walk carefully with my cane > eleven winters now > and as i pass through the park gates > i dream of the coming spring > > maryjo > > ------------------------------ > > End of POETICS Digest - 5 Dec 2004 to 6 Dec 2004 (#2004-341) > ************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:08:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Robinson Subject: on forced secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have been reading posts on this listserv and at other sites ever since the election with a growing impulse to respond. What I have to say is, firstly, idiosyncratic--I speak, of course, only from my own experience--and in some limited way has to do with an interest in speaking on behalf of the very contested community of Christians. At this point, saying that I'm a Christian seems about as meaningful as saying that I am liberal or avant garde, or whatever: all terms deflated of real meaning. However, I went to seminary, worked as a hospital chaplain and as a college chaplain, and lived in an intentional community of African American Christians. I suppose that makes me in some sense a "Christian expert." The people that I encountered in all of those venues disagreed significantly about what it means to be a Christian and what it means to have faith and how to enact it. This is something that we discussed endlessly. I am well aware that there are some churches and communities in which this kind of discussion would be closed down, especially if conducted by women. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:39:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: on forced secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth: I'd like to hear more. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Robinson" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:08 AM Subject: on forced secularism > I have been reading posts on this listserv and at other sites ever since the > election with a growing impulse to respond. What I have to say is, firstly, > idiosyncratic--I speak, of course, only from my own experience--and in some > limited way has to do with an interest in speaking on behalf of the very > contested community of Christians. At this point, saying that I'm a Christian > seems about as meaningful as saying that I am liberal or avant garde, or > whatever: all terms deflated of real meaning. However, I went to seminary, > worked as a hospital chaplain and as a college chaplain, and lived in an > intentional community of African American Christians. I suppose that makes me > in some sense a "Christian expert." The people that I encountered in all of > those venues disagreed significantly about what it means to be a Christian and > what it means to have faith and how to enact it. This is something that we > discussed endlessly. I am well aware that there are some churches and > communities in which this kind of discussion would be closed down, especially > if conducted by women. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 13:40:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Whalen Reading change of info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fish Drum Inc., Medicine Show Theatre,=20 and the WORD/PLAY series present: THE POEMS OF PHILIP WHALEN Poets and writers read Whalen=B9s work Suzi Winson, Michael Rothenberg, Terri Carrion, Jim Koller, Louise Landes Levi, Tom Savage, Karl Bruder, Simon Pettet Sunday, December 12, 2004 3:00 pm =20 Medicine Show 549 West 52nd St. (bet 10th & 11th), 3rd fl NYC 10019 212.262.4216 $20. admission All attendees will receive a copy of Continuous Flame: A Tribute to Philip Whalen photos, tributes, poems, drawings and interviews Proceeds will go to Poets In Need, Inc. a non-profit organization that gives Whalen grants to established poets in emergency situations. for more information go to: http://www.bigbridge.org/pin.htm Word/Play is partially funded by the New York State Council on the Arts, = a public agency _________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:47:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Robinson Subject: on forced secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have been reading reading recent posts here and elsewhere, especially after the election, with a growing sense that I'd like to respond. I am speaking idiosyncratically, on the basis of my own experience. At the same time, I am aware that I am a part of a very contested community and that I'd like to represent that community differently than is typically done in a forum like this. So: I went to seminary, worked in Oklahoma (this is significant) as a college chaplain, worked as a hospital chaplain, and lived in an intentional Christian urban community whose African American facilitators were working on civil rights issues. I suppose this makes me a Christian expert of sorts. My experience is that Christianity is anything but monolithic. All of the groups I have been involved with disagreed on many things and discussed these differences endlessly. I am well aware that in some Christian communities these discussions would be closed down, especially if they were conducted by women. At the same time, I don't know personally any Christian people who voted for Bush, and I do know a lot of Christian people who worked very hard to thwart his reelection. All of this will, I hope, seem obvious to those who read it. I think it bears explicit statement because my experience with poets (with whom I've had affiliation for as long as I've had affiliation with Christians) has been that conversations on this matter can be reductive and even irresponsible. Sample a few comments that poets have made to me without any apparent sense that they were inappropriate: "Oh, you're a Christian--you're intellectual deadwood." "I can't believe that you'd admit you're a Christian; that's like telling people that you're a smoker." "You'll want to talk to so and so; she believes in God too." "Well, I knew you were a Christian, but what surprises me is that you seem actually to be kind of smart." "Saying that you're a lyric poet is almost as bad as saying you're a Christian." Okay, I admit that some of these are kind of funny, but they weren't INTENDED to be. What's surprised me even more is that it has sometimes been hard for me to get a job because my c.v. reflects my religious involvements. At my current place of employment, there was open discussion that I shouldn't be hired because of my religious affiliation. I can't imagine that such a discussion would ensue at a state run, politically liberal institution if the applicant were Hindu, Muslim,Jewish, or Buddhist. I realize that my comments here are anecdotal. Some of the comments on this thread have been pretty interesting and nuanced, and I'm happy to enter into religious hermeneutics with others. But some of the comments are, at best, poorly informed and irresponsible. My request: rather than telling me who I am and what I think, that an inquiry be made. I have been very interested in Joan Retallack's idea of the conceptual swerve, in which the unexpected can emerge and reshape ossified conceptual constructs. Why can't a faith inquiry function similarly? Why can't chance be an operative part of faith? I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that faith is a process in which there can be "no diversity of opinion,compromise" otherwise it would hold no interest for me. Faith and art-making seem analogous in the sense that both involve being curious, making inquiry, and taking certain risks. "To take something on faith," to my reading means NOT having certainty of outcome but pursuing it anyway because it is somehow compelling and might lead to further engagement and exploration. Elizabeth Robinson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 13:56:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Fw: Whalen Reading change of info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PLEASE NOTE CHANGE OF READERS!!!! Fish Drum Inc., Medicine Show Theatre,=20 and the WORD/PLAY series present: THE POEMS OF PHILIP WHALEN Poets and writers read Whalen=B9s work Suzi Winson, Michael Rothenberg, Terri Carrion, Jim Koller, Louise Landes Levi, Tom Savage, Karl Bruder, Simon Pettet Sunday, December 12, 2004 3:00 pm =20 Medicine Show 549 West 52nd St. (bet 10th & 11th), 3rd fl NYC 10019 212.262.4216 $20. admission All attendees will receive a copy of Continuous Flame: A Tribute to Philip Whalen photos, tributes, poems, drawings and interviews Proceeds will go to Poets In Need, Inc. a non-profit organization that gives Whalen grants to established poets in emergency situations. for more information go to: http://www.bigbridge.org/pin.htm Word/Play is partially funded by the New York State Council on the Arts, = a public agency _________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:00:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Hinton Subject: Leslie Scalapino colloquium and poetry reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed InterRUPTions, An Experimental Writers Reading Series, presents A Colloquium on the Writings of Leslie Scalapino featuring two talks: "How Bodies Act: Scalapino's Still Performance,"Professor Elizabeth Frost (FordhamUniversity) "Zither & (Autobiographical) Introduction to Scalapino's Writings,"Professor Laura Hinton (The City College of New York) To be Followed by a Poetry Reading with LESLIE SCALAPINO Author of over 30 books of poetry, fiction, essays and plays, including Zither & Autobiography (Wesleyan University Press, 2003); Dahlia's Iris Secret Autobiography and Fiction (FC2, November 2003); and The Tango (text and photographs by Scalapino in collaboration with artist Marina Adams, Granary Press, 2001) Tuesday, Dec. 14th 4:30 p.m. -- colloquium talks and discussion 5:30 p.m. -- poetry reading Events are free and open to the public. The Compton-Goethals Art Gallery The City College of New York 140th Street between Amsterdam and Convent Avenues New York City (Harlem) Directions: To get to the City College campus, take the 1/9 subway line iin Manhattan to137th Street. Walk up the hill to Amsterdam Avenue. The Compton-Goethals Art Gallery is in the Compton-Goethals Art Building, one of four gothic buildings adjacent to the quad at 140th Street between Amsterdam and Convent (entrance facing Convent). Enter the building at the quad entrance at Convent, turn left at the guard desk. The gallery is at the end of the short hall on your left (Room 134). For a map see website at http://www.ccny.cuny.edu/aboutus/campus/artbldg00.htm. This event is funded in part by Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it has received from Poets & Writers, Inc. InterRUPTions readings are co-sponsored by the Department of English and receive volunteer assistance from the CCNY Student Organization The Poetry Gap. For information on The Poetry Gap,write Mimi Allin at mimi@renoun.net. For information on InterRUPTions reading series, contact Professor Laura Hinton at lhinton@ccny.cuny.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:28:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: on forced secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth: Thanks for this. As you quoted me, "To take something on faith," I should reply. You see faith as meaning "NOT having certainty of outcome but pursuing it anyway because it is somehow compelling and might lead to further engagement and exploration." This turns it on its head. It's a creative, but fruitless way of reading it. Of course you're right, I think, that there's no "certainty of outcome," but people who take things on faith do not ask questions. In fact, this ploy, which the Catholic Church uses to stop inquiry. It's political equivalent is "my country right or wrong." Of course there are progressive Christians, but I'm addressing the people who voted for Bush, on "moral" grounds. The evangelical faith-based movement in Christianity, which is still fighting the evidence of evolution, a woman's right to make decision about her own body, minority rights, etc., is America's Taliban, and is dangerous to the future of whatever democracy we have left. I'm sure progressive Christians hate this corruption of their religion even more than non-Christians. But, after being a member of a theistic society this my whole life, and given the failed history of monotheism, all the people who have died and who have been killed in its name, something that continues today in Iraq and the Middle East, it's obvious to me that this path hasn't solved any basic human problems, but only makes them worse. We've had five thousand years to see this. That's why I suggest that if we need a God, we need one who speaks to us now, and not in books that speak to another time. This is what creativity is about. This is why we need poets. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Robinson" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: on forced secularism > I have been reading reading recent posts here and elsewhere, especially > after the election, with a growing sense that I'd like to respond. I am > speaking idiosyncratically, on the basis of my own experience. At the same > time, I am aware that I am a part of a very contested community and that I'd > like to represent that community differently than is typically done in a forum > like this. So: I went to seminary, worked in Oklahoma (this is significant) > as a college chaplain, worked as a hospital chaplain, and lived in an > intentional Christian urban community whose African American facilitators were > working on civil rights issues. I suppose this makes me a Christian expert of > sorts. My experience is that Christianity is anything but monolithic. All of > the groups I have been involved with disagreed on many things and discussed > these differences endlessly. I am well aware that in some Christian > communities these discussions would be closed down, especially if they were > conducted by women. At the same time, I don't know personally any Christian > people who voted for Bush, and I do know a lot of Christian people who worked > very hard to thwart his reelection. > All of this will, I hope, seem obvious to those who read it. I think it > bears explicit statement because my experience with poets (with whom I've had > affiliation for as long as I've had affiliation with Christians) has been that > conversations on this matter can be reductive and even irresponsible. Sample > a few comments that poets have made to me without any apparent sense that they > were inappropriate: > "Oh, you're a Christian--you're intellectual deadwood." > "I can't believe that you'd admit you're a Christian; that's like telling > people that you're a smoker." > "You'll want to talk to so and so; she believes in God too." > "Well, I knew you were a Christian, but what surprises me is that > you seem actually to be kind of smart." > "Saying that you're a lyric poet is almost as bad as saying you're a > Christian." > Okay, I admit that some of these are kind of funny, but they weren't INTENDED > to be. What's surprised me even more is that it has sometimes been hard for > me to get a job because my c.v. reflects my religious involvements. At my > current place of employment, there was open discussion that I shouldn't be > hired because of my religious affiliation. I can't imagine that such a > discussion would ensue at a state run, politically liberal institution if the > applicant were Hindu, Muslim,Jewish, or Buddhist. > I realize that my comments here are anecdotal. Some of the comments on > this thread have been pretty interesting and nuanced, and I'm happy to enter > into religious hermeneutics with others. But some of the comments are, at > best, poorly informed and irresponsible. My request: rather than telling me > who I am and what I think, that an inquiry be made. I have been very > interested in Joan Retallack's idea of the conceptual swerve, in which the > unexpected can emerge and reshape ossified conceptual constructs. Why can't a > faith inquiry function similarly? Why can't chance be an operative part of > faith? I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that > faith is a process in which there can be "no diversity of opinion,compromise" > otherwise it would hold no interest for me. Faith and art-making seem > analogous in the sense that both involve being curious, making inquiry, and > taking certain risks. "To take something on faith," to my reading means > NOT having certainty of outcome but pursuing it anyway because it is somehow > compelling and might lead to further engagement and exploration. > > Elizabeth Robinson > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:16:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: POETS and CINEMA, final show reminder Comments: To: Experimental Film Discussion List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sunday December 12th, 7:30PM at California College of the Arts, Timken Hall MAP: http://www.cca.edu/about/directions.php INFO: http://www.sfcinematheque.org/programs.shtml#266 The Poetry Center and SF Cinematheque together present: Moving Picture Poetics 3: Collaborations - third installment of cinematica by and with poets - Wanted: filmmakers, painters, musicians, dancers. This show is NOT only for writers. * "What Happened to Kerouac?" excerpts (1986) by Nathaniel Dorsky images tenderly set to archival recordings of Jack Kerouac * "The Menage" (2002) by Anne Waldman and Ed Bowes a visual accompaniment to a reading of Carl Rakosi's poem * "Descartes" (1968) by Joanne Kyger and Loren Sears updates the philosopher's 'Discourse on Method' * "Before the War" (1990) by Laura Moriarty and Jiri Veskrna quotidian images belie, gently, an obscene deja vu * "Delay series" (premiere) by Konrad Steiner and Leslie Scalapino instants of time on Market Street animated by a voice * "Aliengnosis" (premiere) by Dean Smith and Robert Gluck post-Freudian misreadings render homoerotic fever dreams * "Swamp" (1991) by Abigail Child with dialog by Sarah Schulman a mock soap opera starring Carla Harryman, Steve Benson, George Kuchar, Marga Gomez, Susie Bright, Kevin Killian, et al. Curated by Konrad Steiner ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:30:02 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: [firth@istar.ca: Front&Centre #10 & #11 two for one sale] Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Front&Centre #10 and #11 (two for one sale) Black Bile Press announces the simultaneous publication of two new issues of Front&Centre =96 #10 and #11. Subscribe now and both new issues will count as only one issue toward your subscription. Sign up now for a two-issue/one year subscription for $11.00 and you=92ll receive Front&Centre #10, 11 & 12. Sign up for a four-issue/two year subscription for $20.00 and you=92ll receive Front&Centre #10, 11, 12, 13 &14. Same rate for the US, with the exchange covering the additional postal costs. UK and RoW please email for the rate in your currency. Send payment to: Matthew Firth Editor Front&Centre 573 Gainsborough Avenue Ottawa, Ontario K2A 2Y6 CANADA Please make cheque or money order payable to =93M. Firth.=94 Details on the new issues: Front&Centre #10 contains blazing new short fiction by Pushcart nominee Tony D=92Souza, Thea Atkinson, Jason Heroux (author of Memoirs of an Alias), Anya Wassenberg, Bill Brown (of the short story collection Folly fame), and former Pushcart Prize winner Zsolt Alapi. #10 also contains reviews of books by Nick Mamatas, Hiromi Goto, Richard Meltzer, Tom Walmsley, Ramona Dearing and Heather Birrell. Front&Centre #11 contains gut-wrenching new fiction by Hannah Holborn, UK small press anti-hero Daithidh MacEochaidh, Len Gasparini (author of more than ten books, including the brilliant short story collection A Demon in My View), Bilbo Poynter, Philip Quinn and Cathleen Kirkwood. #11 also has reviews of books by Ian Cockfield, Kateri Akiwenzie Damm, Kerry J. Schooley & Peter Sellers, Sikeena Karmali, Yashin Blake and Shelley A. Leedahl. Queries: firth@istar.ca Front&Centre =96 Hard-hitting new fiction www.blackbilepress.com -30- -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:43:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <41B5D88B.E971F78C@OnlineWebArt.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Donna quoted: ..| Jews slaughter untold Palestinians because ..| they believe God told them expressly to ..| do so Does it read better, Ms. Kuhn, like: ..| Jews bulldoze Palestinian homes because ..| they believe God told them expressly to ..| do so Is it anti-Semitic to say it is wrong to put people behind barbed wire, keep them caged, take their land despite international resolutions, and bulldoze entire apartment blocks leaving the former Arab tenants with nowhere to live? What happened to Rachel Cory? There is not a single Jewish settlement built in Israel that does not have a displaced Arab population. It's a *bloody* occupation. People around the world continue to reject and condemn Israel's occupation, discrimination and gross violations of the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people. But instead of Israel reviewing its policies and practices, it is accusing its opponents of being anti-Semitic. When the International court ruled the barrier the Israelis are building on Palestinian land is illegal -- the Jewish lawyers declared the decision anti-Semitic. Recent accusations against me of anti-Semitism are similarly counterproductive, morally bankrupt, and only aim to bully and silence me through blackmail. This is an ugly Zionist game of word-play. -- Derek, awaiting his punishment (by helicopter gunship perhaps) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:43:36 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: POL: well, 13th c. pol, anyway MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Penis Tree: Fertility Symbol or Political Poster? Dec 7, 10:22 AM (ET) By Gideon Long LONDON (Reuters) - At first glance, the Massa Marittima mural looks fairly similar to dozens of other medieval frescoes dotted across Tuscany. But look closely at the spidery tree that dominates the center of the painting and you notice something peculiar. Its branches are covered in penises. There are 25 of them in all, of different shapes and sizes, complete with testicles. They hang from the limbs of the tree like leaves fluttering in the breeze. The mural dates from the 13th century and is still visible on a wall in the Italian town of Massa Marittima where it was discovered during renovation work four years ago. more here: http://reuters.iwon.com/article/20041207/2004-12- 07T152252Z_01_L0630237_RTRIDST_0_ODD-ODD-PENIS-DC.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:54:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000101c4dc9d$7a81ce40$93e33c45@satellite> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Derek, It is not JEWS killing Palastinians. Please direct your anger at a certain portion of Israel. Jews and Israelis are not the same thing. There are ugly zionist games afoot and it is a shame that some of my family are involved in such things. However, none of the games are directed at you. No one called you anti-Semitic, only your remark. And as you continue to flagellate the issue, should we begin to wonder?? B On 12/7/04 2:43 PM, "derekrogerson" wrote: > Donna quoted: > ..| Jews slaughter untold Palestinians because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so > > Does it read better, Ms. Kuhn, like: > > ..| Jews bulldoze Palestinian homes because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so > > > Is it anti-Semitic to say it is wrong to put people behind barbed wire, > keep > them caged, take their land despite international resolutions, and > bulldoze entire apartment blocks leaving the former Arab tenants with > nowhere to live? What happened to Rachel Cory? > > There is not a single Jewish settlement built in Israel that does not > have a displaced Arab population. It's a *bloody* occupation. > > People around the world continue to reject and condemn Israel's > occupation, discrimination and gross violations of the legitimate rights > of the Palestinian people. But instead of Israel reviewing its policies > and practices, it is accusing its opponents of being anti-Semitic. > > When the International court ruled the barrier the Israelis are building > on Palestinian land is illegal -- the Jewish lawyers declared the > decision anti-Semitic. > > Recent accusations against me of anti-Semitism are similarly > counterproductive, morally bankrupt, and only aim to bully and silence > me through blackmail. This is an ugly Zionist game of word-play. > > -- Derek, awaiting his punishment (by helicopter gunship > perhaps) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:10:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: contact In-Reply-To: <002201c26fed$5bb4c0e0$db96ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed David: I haven't seen your name around the POETICS list for a while and was wondering if you're still reachable by email???? love, aldon <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:11:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: ooopppps again In-Reply-To: <002201c26fed$5bb4c0e0$db96ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed OK guys -- I haven't hit that send button in the wrong mode for at least 5 months, so cut me some slack -- sorry -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:19:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Fortunate (Roger)Son MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My, my, it seems that in the latest installment of his ongoing "Imitatio Christi," Mr. Rogerson has donned his crown of thorns with a vengeance, calling upon helicopter gunships to unleash all available firepower against his (thankfully strictly verbal) brimstone. Though martyrdom may not be too far from Mr. Rogerson's fervid dreams, as for quite a while now he has been trying to convince us that he, as a Christian, is by mere virtue of that choice of monotheisms among the insulted, injured, and persecuted of the world, valiantly wielding his rhetorical popguns against the atheist (or Jewish) onslaught, let me just say that it is obscene to see anyone anywhere use the oppression of Palestinians as a bloody flag to score a couple of points in the utterly safe context of an online argument. Mr. Rogerson, be informed that among the harshest critics of Israel's reprehensible policies are such poets as Aharon Shabtai and Yitzhak Laor, activists Gila Svirsky and Uri Avnery, journalist Amira Hass, historians Ilan Pappe and the late Simha Flapan and Israel Shahak -- all of them Jews who lived or are now living in Israel. I realize that, according to Rogerson, "Jews" (how delicate of him to leave out the definite article) are only interested in "slaughtering untold Palestinians" (such are the vagaries of ugly Christian games of wordplay), so maybe none of that matters. Anything short of "Gloria in excelsis Derek" is all bullying and blackmail anyway. Take a minute to polish that halo though, Derek, you seem to have smeared it in an unmentionable substance... ----- Original Message ----- From: derekrogerson Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2004 3:43 pm Subject: Re: everyday people > Donna quoted: > ..| Jews slaughter untold Palestinians because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so > > Does it read better, Ms. Kuhn, like: > > ..| Jews bulldoze Palestinian homes because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so > > > Is it anti-Semitic to say it is wrong to put people behind barbed > wire,keep > them caged, take their land despite international resolutions, and > bulldoze entire apartment blocks leaving the former Arab tenants with > nowhere to live? What happened to Rachel Cory? > > There is not a single Jewish settlement built in Israel that does not > have a displaced Arab population. It's a *bloody* occupation. > > People around the world continue to reject and condemn Israel's > occupation, discrimination and gross violations of the legitimate > rightsof the Palestinian people. But instead of Israel reviewing > its policies > and practices, it is accusing its opponents of being anti-Semitic. > > When the International court ruled the barrier the Israelis are > buildingon Palestinian land is illegal -- the Jewish lawyers > declared the > decision anti-Semitic. > > Recent accusations against me of anti-Semitism are similarly > counterproductive, morally bankrupt, and only aim to bully and silence > me through blackmail. This is an ugly Zionist game of word-play. > > -- Derek, awaiting his punishment (by helicopter gunship > perhaps) > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:25:34 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000101c4dc9d$7a81ce40$93e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Derek wrote: >>There is not a single Jewish settlement built in Israel that does not have a displaced Arab population. It's a *bloody* occupation. People around the world continue to reject and condemn Israel's occupation, discrimination and gross violations of the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people. But instead of Israel reviewing its policies and practices, it is accusing its opponents of being anti-Semitic. When the International court ruled the barrier the Israelis are building on Palestinian land is illegal -- the Jewish lawyers declared the decision anti-Semitic.<< But your statement about Jews killing Palestinians because they believe God commanded them to, Derek, is not about Israel; it is about Jews. If you had made the statements about the policies of Sharon's government, and/or the government's that preceded his, and those Jews who support those policies, some of whom do in fact use the Hebrew Bible as justification for bulldozing Palestinian homes and maiming and torturing and killing Palestinians, you and I might have found ourselves agreeing with each other. (I don't know enough about you to say absolutely that I would agree with you.) The fact is, however, that you have conflated Israel and those Jews within Israel whom I just mentioned with all the other Jews in the world and that conflation is anti-Semitic, though I am still willing to assume that this is the product not of willful Jew-hatred on your part but rather of your having fallen into a particular kind of rhetoric that is very easy to fall into. It is one thing, for example, for Palestinians to say "Jews" when they are referring to Israelis; in their context, when they talk about what "the Jews" do to them, it is clear they are talking about the Israelis. Outside of that context, however, there is no way you can use the word "Jew" and not also refer to me and to all the other Jews in the world who neither live in Israel nor support what the Israeli government is doing--not to mention those Jews who live in Israel and oppose their government's policies. And this lumping together, which is a habit of speech and mind of people who are anti-Semitic (something, again, of which I am not accusing you personally), makes it very difficult for me to get past the surface of what you have said to the point where we might be able to have a meaningful dialogue. It would make no sense, I am sure you would agree, to enter into the kind of dialogue you say you want with someone who appears as if he might hate you simply for being who you are. Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:39:39 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: on forced secularism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth I was interested in this - epsecially interested in your reference to Joan Retallack - I have seen some of her work - what is this conceptual swerve you refer to - and can you give an instance - thanks? I am intersted in ohter things you say but could you "throw light" on the Retallack connection? Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Robinson" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: on forced secularism > I have been reading reading recent posts here and elsewhere, especially > after the election, with a growing sense that I'd like to respond. I am > speaking idiosyncratically, on the basis of my own experience. At the same > time, I am aware that I am a part of a very contested community and that I'd > like to represent that community differently than is typically done in a forum > like this. So: I went to seminary, worked in Oklahoma (this is significant) > as a college chaplain, worked as a hospital chaplain, and lived in an > intentional Christian urban community whose African American facilitators were > working on civil rights issues. I suppose this makes me a Christian expert of > sorts. My experience is that Christianity is anything but monolithic. All of > the groups I have been involved with disagreed on many things and discussed > these differences endlessly. I am well aware that in some Christian > communities these discussions would be closed down, especially if they were > conducted by women. At the same time, I don't know personally any Christian > people who voted for Bush, and I do know a lot of Christian people who worked > very hard to thwart his reelection. > All of this will, I hope, seem obvious to those who read it. I think it > bears explicit statement because my experience with poets (with whom I've had > affiliation for as long as I've had affiliation with Christians) has been that > conversations on this matter can be reductive and even irresponsible. Sample > a few comments that poets have made to me without any apparent sense that they > were inappropriate: > "Oh, you're a Christian--you're intellectual deadwood." > "I can't believe that you'd admit you're a Christian; that's like telling > people that you're a smoker." > "You'll want to talk to so and so; she believes in God too." > "Well, I knew you were a Christian, but what surprises me is that > you seem actually to be kind of smart." > "Saying that you're a lyric poet is almost as bad as saying you're a > Christian." > Okay, I admit that some of these are kind of funny, but they weren't INTENDED > to be. What's surprised me even more is that it has sometimes been hard for > me to get a job because my c.v. reflects my religious involvements. At my > current place of employment, there was open discussion that I shouldn't be > hired because of my religious affiliation. I can't imagine that such a > discussion would ensue at a state run, politically liberal institution if the > applicant were Hindu, Muslim,Jewish, or Buddhist. > I realize that my comments here are anecdotal. Some of the comments on > this thread have been pretty interesting and nuanced, and I'm happy to enter > into religious hermeneutics with others. But some of the comments are, at > best, poorly informed and irresponsible. My request: rather than telling me > who I am and what I think, that an inquiry be made. I have been very > interested in Joan Retallack's idea of the conceptual swerve, in which the > unexpected can emerge and reshape ossified conceptual constructs. Why can't a > faith inquiry function similarly? Why can't chance be an operative part of > faith? I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that > faith is a process in which there can be "no diversity of opinion,compromise" > otherwise it would hold no interest for me. Faith and art-making seem > analogous in the sense that both involve being curious, making inquiry, and > taking certain risks. "To take something on faith," to my reading means > NOT having certainty of outcome but pursuing it anyway because it is somehow > compelling and might lead to further engagement and exploration. > > Elizabeth Robinson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:50:47 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000101c4dc9d$7a81ce40$93e33c45@satellite> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I feel very strongly about what is happening to Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. But this statement does read as anti-Semitic. It is not "Jews" who commit these crimes. I agree, one of the very problematic things about this particular conflict is the misuse of the term "anti-Semitic" as a kneejerk accusation to reject criticism of the State of Israel. Disentangling one's own rhetoric from the rhetoric of racism seems to me, therefore, all the more necessary. Best A On 8/12/04 7:43 AM, "derekrogerson" wrote: > Donna quoted: > ..| Jews slaughter untold Palestinians because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so > > Does it read better, Ms. Kuhn, like: > > ..| Jews bulldoze Palestinian homes because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 21:20:02 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: everyday people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well said L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Basan" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:54 PM Subject: Re: everyday people > Dear Derek, > > It is not JEWS killing Palastinians. Please direct your anger at a certain > portion of Israel. Jews and Israelis are not the same thing. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:20:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000101c4dc9d$7a81ce40$93e33c45@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i think the problem is using the word "Jewish" as if all Jewish people had the same policy toward the Palestinians. If you used a phrase like "the Israeli government" you would not be treading near anti-Semitism. At 3:43 PM -0500 12/7/04, derekrogerson wrote: >Donna quoted: > ..| Jews slaughter untold Palestinians because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so > >Does it read better, Ms. Kuhn, like: > > ..| Jews bulldoze Palestinian homes because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so > > >Is it anti-Semitic to say it is wrong to put people behind barbed wire, >keep >them caged, take their land despite international resolutions, and >bulldoze entire apartment blocks leaving the former Arab tenants with >nowhere to live? What happened to Rachel Cory? > >There is not a single Jewish settlement built in Israel that does not >have a displaced Arab population. It's a *bloody* occupation. > >People around the world continue to reject and condemn Israel's >occupation, discrimination and gross violations of the legitimate rights >of the Palestinian people. But instead of Israel reviewing its policies >and practices, it is accusing its opponents of being anti-Semitic. > >When the International court ruled the barrier the Israelis are building >on Palestinian land is illegal -- the Jewish lawyers declared the >decision anti-Semitic. > >Recent accusations against me of anti-Semitism are similarly >counterproductive, morally bankrupt, and only aim to bully and silence >me through blackmail. This is an ugly Zionist game of word-play. > > -- Derek, awaiting his punishment (by helicopter gunship >perhaps) -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:39:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000101c4dc9d$7a81ce40$93e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Just want to say I've lived in Israel and Derek doesn't know what he's talking about. But what does this have to do with Poetics? And you do smack of anti-semitism and I'm not a Zionist. - Alan, really sick of this discussion. On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, derekrogerson wrote: > Donna quoted: > ..| Jews slaughter untold Palestinians because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so > > Does it read better, Ms. Kuhn, like: > > ..| Jews bulldoze Palestinian homes because > ..| they believe God told them expressly to > ..| do so > > > Is it anti-Semitic to say it is wrong to put people behind barbed wire, > keep > them caged, take their land despite international resolutions, and > bulldoze entire apartment blocks leaving the former Arab tenants with > nowhere to live? What happened to Rachel Cory? > > There is not a single Jewish settlement built in Israel that does not > have a displaced Arab population. It's a *bloody* occupation. > > People around the world continue to reject and condemn Israel's > occupation, discrimination and gross violations of the legitimate rights > of the Palestinian people. But instead of Israel reviewing its policies > and practices, it is accusing its opponents of being anti-Semitic. > > When the International court ruled the barrier the Israelis are building > on Palestinian land is illegal -- the Jewish lawyers declared the > decision anti-Semitic. > > Recent accusations against me of anti-Semitism are similarly > counterproductive, morally bankrupt, and only aim to bully and silence > me through blackmail. This is an ugly Zionist game of word-play. > > -- Derek, awaiting his punishment (by helicopter gunship > perhaps) > http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:07:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: everyday people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dishing out the Soule ------------------------------------------- "Making wild and the Christian seriously committed to admit that specializes in his blog at the wilderness and feature articles have > > paying public. > > from the same response from storm > > tho patient > with Kathryn Radeff > > tho no hesitation about the morality when no hesitation about the whole case for this link > Christians who combine writing explores experiences of the more than Judaism. Some of which one could take the beast. In Support Of Troops > that he hated all Christians who combine writing explores experiences of the Christian seriously committed to > ... > recipients of > from the beast. In 1997 Poet made by Sarah A. Sugden has been made, intended, or two > > > > Christians are awarded in asking whether they are not to > > > > > N'Tare Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ > > >dishing out the wilderness and Independent and the Torah] is certified Virus Free. > from storm > Christians who combine writing explores experiences of kids and > > dishing out the sole of the first place, the sole of which one has abandoned the 2004 00:02:07 -0500 > in the Torah] is a 'reply' - Cited by poets for answering late. I given this evil brain-washing monster > such put it would be seen from the 2004 00:02:07 -0500 > > > > > series to admit that he uses a serial > comes from storm > > paying public. > From: "richard.tylr" > anti-Semitic, as > > Palestinians because the session, a > ... > From: Joel wrote: > comes from > > tho patient > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2004 07:38:50 -0500 > available > > > > > up from (at least) Augustine to rule the world do so. There is applause. Where were directed specifically directed specifically directed specifically at other arguments]: > it's winter in asking whether they are over-reacting. Where were =3D > > > > From: "richard.tylr" > treasures. The Serial Poetry." A LOSS HERE... > > commands are anyway misled, the > > commands are anyway misled, the morality when Poet made by Sarah A. Sugden has abandoned the Oblique: Three Poets > > >river, the morality when Poet made by more a 'reply' - and Barbara Kelly Professor of > comes from the Contemporary Long Poems by poets for > tho patient > > > From: Joel wrote: > of what one's poetry and > very, very few of the Torah] is a 'reply' - relax in > series to > > To: > > > Augustine to rule the world do so --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:26:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: ooopppps again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No-Spin Poetry Blog / Fox News Apostle pushed Marouckla bumped or Dropped or Killed beer George'll only take your cum and Satan and certain Demons and bring out THE I AM and The Many I AM's of The Great I AM and The Great I AM! the and to fell asleep and card says Everything Banner' was and Satan and certain Demons and this for many day moaned holds up the TAINGeorge banana leading the DRASTICALLY TRUTHFUL way definitely Extremely Homophobic fired THE I AM and The Many I AM's of The Great I AM and The Great I AM! the into these mysterious for moment George was snake with long finger not to fuck up kiss gifts to the Drastic poor she seems to the HUMAN (ie: the HUMAN Man George JESUS CHRIST god) mainly the DRASTICALLY HACKED roundness commenGeorge was very be put into their clubs who should try to gather nuts just as telling purposes they fucked THE ALMIGHTY THE ONE GOD for old everything her dear tightness of Charlie isn't that Kath has my cock was So after would have no suitors shoulders and other just mesmerize THE ALMIGHTY THE ONE GOD My ``pink and Pink and PINK Rose' sided with her legs alike And as we fell back to flushed Her hair cock between my legs heap his semen seeping or Dropping or Killing EVERYTHING --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:28:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 7-Dec-04, at 2:20 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > i think the problem is using the word "Jewish" as if all Jewish > people had the same policy toward the Palestinians. If you used a > phrase like "the Israeli government" you would not be treading near > anti-Semitism. > I agree. But often when one criticizes the Israeli government one is called an anti-semite. gb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:28:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher McCreary Subject: New Poetry Series -- Kevin Varrone & Ethel Rackin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please join us at the inaugural poetry reading for a new Philadelphia series=85 =20 =20 KEVIN VARRONE =20 & =20 ETHEL RACKIN =20 =20 this Sunday, December 12th =20 2pm =20 Benna=92s Caf=E9 8th & Wharton Philadelphia 215-334-1502 =20 Brief =96 & controlled =96 open mic to follow=85 =20 Hope to see you all there! =20 =20 =20 --Jenn McCreary / jenn.mccreary@verizon.net =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:56:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <1011D3F8-48B0-11D9-9236-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed All discourse on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict tends to be inflected with anti-Semitism -- often the discourse produced by Zionists themselves -- and it's a constant struggle to untangle the threads. George is correct that Zionists will attack criticisms of Israel as anti-Semitic, and it's been like this for a long time -- making it very difficult to criticize the brutal realities of colonialism (who wants to be smeared as an anti-Semite?). Recently, for example, student groups have discussed campaigns to divest universities from companies doing business with Israel (like the anti-apartheid movement), and they have been criticized by Harvard President Lawrence Sommers and others for being anti-Semitic (see Judith Butler's or my own responses). Now some mainline Christian denominations (I think Methodists and Presbyterians, but I may not be remembering correctly) are discussing divestment. Sommers and the Zionist organizations are being a bit more circumspect, trying to meet privately with leaders to head them off, but they launch their "anti-Semitic" attack any day now. When Israeli troops and politicians say "We are the Jews," it isn't surprising that the response is against "the Jews." I think that the Zionist movement has, for a long time, tried to confuse the discourse to make it more difficult to discuss Zionism as a colonialist movement. The PLO tried for decades to make the distinction between Jews and Zionists, between Judaism and the State of Israel. With the emergence of Islamic parties, this approach is increasingly difficult -- and I think many of the Israeli government like the reversion to religion (since it makes them seem Western and democratic in comparison). So, to hear confusions on this list is not surprising, I suppose. I had thought that poets -- who cherish the nuances of language -- would be at the forefront of making distinctions. We are seeing similar dynamics in relation to "Americans." A Stanford athlete (anti-war) was recently booed by the entire stadium in Scotland at an international competition when he was identified as American. No one asked about his position on the war. Here are some realities: There are numerous Israeli Jews and other Jews who are speaking out at the atrocious behavior of the Israeli government, settlers, etc. Israel continues to oppress and displace Palestinians despite condemnation of Geneva conventions, UN, and international courts. There are numerous Americans who speak out at the atrocious behavior of the US government. The US continues its occupation of Iraq and mistreatment of prisoners despite criticism and condemnation by International Red Cross, and more. Now what? Hilton Obenzinger At 04:28 PM 12/7/2004 -0800, George Bowering wrote: >On 7-Dec-04, at 2:20 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > >>i think the problem is using the word "Jewish" as if all Jewish >>people had the same policy toward the Palestinians. If you used a >>phrase like "the Israeli government" you would not be treading near >>anti-Semitism. > >I agree. But often when one criticizes the Israeli government >one is called an anti-semite. > >gb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:39:46 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Pam Brown Subject: submerged down under MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit (( Cordite Poetry Review Update: *Cordite #20 SUBMERGED is now online!)) December 8, 2004 ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.cordite.org.au/archives/000721.html Get your flippers on, we're going diving. Cordite #20 is a completely underwater issue: SUBMERGED! POETRY Starring snappy poets joanne burns, Pam Brown, nick whittock, Jen Tsen Kwok, Jane Gibian, Anna Jackson, Mark Pirie, Louise Oxley, Ouyang Yu and more. FEATURES James Stuart cuts loose with an investigation into visual poetry. Read his article in PDF format, featuring images from "Words and Things"(Patrick Jones, ed). Trivikrama Kumari Jamwal expounds upon the unlikely but fascinating prospect of running into Judith Wright in Jammu, India. Michael Farrell and Will day both attended a performance of Richard Frankland's Charcoal Club. Read their responses. REVIEWS New reviews of books by Jill Jones, Paul Hardacre, Paul MItchell, Sean Whelan, John Tranter, Benito di Fonzo and Tony Page. Plus audio, blog posts, editorial and images from throughout the year that was 2004. Jump in today! __________________________________________________ ===== Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 21:03:55 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: One group responsible for 99.8% of FCC complaints Comments: cc: WOM-PO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not that this should ever come as a surprise. If you want to complain about NBC etc refusing to run gay-friendly advertising from the United Church of Christ, or because O'Reilly is being homophobic or racist, you'll have to do so under the indecency section of the FCC complaints form. http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints.html It would be good for them to start hearing from the majority of us, Ron -------------------------- TODD SHIELDS, MEDIA WEEK - In an appearance before Congress in February, when the controversy over Janet Jackson's Super Bowl moment was at its height, Federal Communications Commission chairman Michael Powell laid some startling statistics on U.S. senators. The number of indecency complaints had soared dramatically to more than 240,000 in the previous year, Powell said. The figure was up from roughly 14,000 in 2002, and from fewer than 350 in each of the two previous years. There was, Powell said, "a dramatic rise in public concern and outrage about what is being broadcast into their homes." What Powell did not reveal - apparently because he was unaware - was the source of the complaints. According to a new FCC estimate obtained by Mediaweek, nearly all indecency complaints in 2003 - 99.8 percent - were filed by the Parents Television Council, an activist group. This year, the trend has continued, and perhaps intensified. . . The prominent role played by the PTC has raised concerns among critics of the FCC's crackdown on indecency. "It means that really a tiny minority with a very focused political agenda is trying to censor American television and radio," said Jonathan Rintels, president and executive director of the Center for Creative Voices in Media, an artists' advocacy group. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:53:34 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: the mutating brain infection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Stag o' Lee and Billy two men who gambled late Stag o' Lee threw a seven Billy swore he threw an eight" "Stag o' Lee tol' ol' Billy I can't let you go with that you done won all my money and my brand new Stetson hat" The game is fixed, the dice are loaded, the alley is blind; oh Jesus, how presumptuous to feign to be so kind. Oh save me from the man who wants to do me good. Throw what you will, the outcome's pre-ordained, Jesus is the sin, so gamblers cannot win, and it all begins again. Blood, blood, blood, is always running, running, running, just before the rousing light that shakes us from this Jesus night out of drunken dreams, out of bitter waste, out of lack of purpose: it's the dead-end alley and the canceled ticket. There is no liberation, just do-overs and "what was I thinking?" awakenings. "Stag o' Lee went to the bar room and he stood cross the bar room door said, now nobody move and he pulled his forty-four" "Stag o' Lee, cried Billy oh please don't take my life I got three little children and a very sickly wife" Who liquors up our boys on Messianic nectars, and dares to leave a free man only death? What gain for the bartender; paid off in what Billy has brazenly stolen? Do not fight the system children, God the mutating brain infection must be defended at any cost, and all who disrespect the delusion and pay with stolen truth are caught and killed to save the lie: for truth cannot be killed, only the mouth of it, only the scribblings of it, and then only washed away with ill-shed human blood. So Billy, neither gambler, nor thief, ignores the rules of the game and has a drink on Stag o' Lee, in the currency of worthless ideas glorified by terrified children too weak to let him live. "Stag o' Lee shot Billy well he shot that poor boy so bad that the bullet went through Billy and broke the bartenders glass" Oh sweet relief, oh that the glass be broken, oh that the ghosts may laugh again in green and watered worlds; beyond this noxious nightmare on Jesus street. Oh pour no more for me of this walk with thee, for it is not closer I long to be, but far far outside the prison you have made out of the childish fear of men: to be at length where people can live free, and stomp that glass beneath their feet for love of human things. Oh terror, oh terror, oh the ranting march of Jesus up and down the USA: but now surviving natives build casinos and river boats and wait pragmatically for the end of the need of such things. Real life is only truth, and Billy was no gambler. "forever free" Trinidad Cruz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:13:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: question about e-book publication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I'm wondering how the publication of a short e-book of poems (or full-length e-book, for that matter) will affect the future publication of the same poems with a different publisher in print format. In other words, if part of a full-length ms. has been published as an e-book, might that preclude the publication of that work as a print book soon afterward? Also, would the print publisher need to get permission from the e-book publisher for rights to reprint the poems? Camille ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:34:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: question about e-book publication Comments: To: cmarti3@LSU.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Camille, I understand previous publication of a segment or shorter version of a book in e-book form as analagous to chapbook publication, i.e., if it is acceptable to include in a full-length collection all or some of 25 poems previously published as a chapbook, then I would expect that the same applies to 25 poems published as an e-book. Many first book contests "forgive" chapbooks. Maybe chapbooks are particularly harmless sorts of publications. Maybe because of their chappiness. E-books, now, are more shark-like. Not Moby Dick shark-like (that chapter on precisely how sharks remove head-shaped scoops from the carcass of the whale) but shiny, glib, sort of *disco* compared to the tweedy lineny flannelly *chapbook*. But I feel I am digressing. The question of what happens if your whole entire book is first published as an e-book is another thing. In that case, I sorta think your whole entire book is already published, it's an e-book though, no less nor more than its print sister, but different .... On the other hand, publishers who publish e-books (disco-publishers rather than tweedy-publishers) tend be open-minded run-with-the-times sorts of gals and guys: they mightn't have a problem handing over the e-book to print publication. The print guys now, they might see it differently. It's definitely time for bed. Mairead >>> cmarti3@LSU.EDU 12/08/04 12:13 AM >>> I'm wondering how the publication of a short e-book of poems (or full-length e-book, for that matter) will affect the future publication of the same poems with a different publisher in print format. In other words, if part of a full-length ms. has been published as an e-book, might that preclude the publication of that work as a print book soon afterward? Also, would the print publisher need to get permission from the e-book publisher for rights to reprint the poems? Camille ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 01:00:43 -0500 Reply-To: Geoffrey Gatza Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Organization: BlazeVOX [books] Subject: ::: BlazeVOX [books] ::: Antidotes for an Alibi by Amy King Comments: cc: Amy King MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Antidotes for an Alibi Poetry by Amy King BlazeVOX [books] http://www.blazevox.org/books/ak.htm Amy King's first full-length collection, Antidotes for an Alibi, insists that we examine the deceptive clarity of our actions and the goals that motivate us. How does one actually get from "A" to "B"-and is there ever really a "B"? What color is the white space between "A" and "B"? Upon closer inspection, surface realities reveal themselves to be porous and fragile, layered with textures and grains that lead the eye on varying pathways. So what are we to do in a world of newspaper narratives that instruct us toward tidy endings, murmuring that such endings are possible and even inevitable? ..... Nominated for a Lambda Award !!! and recently mentioned on Chris Murry's texfiles.blogspot.com ...... Amy King's poems think in association, evoking a world familiar but entirely unexpectable. Next to us all this turns and spins: under the veil of hum and drum is the paradise of possibility. This is a poetry of hope for a world shrouded by nearly and almost. -- Charles Bernstein I like the way the poems in Antidotes for an Alibi seem to turn on their axes. Their wit is gone before you know it, but the metaphysical effect transports you a considerable distance, where you find yourself happy to be pleasantly addled. -- Ron Padgett Amy King's poems leap from small, fragile moments into grand gesture and godly vision. Her snapshots of downtown folklore connect on the most basic, truthful level. "If I were you, I would wait for me," King writes. I advise you to do what she says. --Daniel Nester http://www.blazevox.org/books/ak.htm Product Information: Poetry · Paperback: // pages · Binding: Perfect-Bound Binding · Publisher: BlazeVOX [books] (September 2004) · Size: 6.33" x 10.25" · ISBN: 0-9759227-5-0 · Nice Price: $11.00 + ++ BlazeVOX | http://www.blazevox.org +++ Poetry USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 01:17:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20041207163714.029bb608@hobnzngr.pobox.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard et al, 1. I was not aware the word 'Jew' was a dirty word -- I only used it to indicate Jewish people (see http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jew for my usage) 2. I was not aware of a difference between 'those Jews' and 'other Jews' when I made my post 3. Everyone is reading a great deal more into what I have happened to say as an aside to demonstrate 'divine inspiration' than what I was clearly intending. Given recent events it is clear to me that Jews/Israelis appear to carry around a tremendous amount of baggage attached to their ethnicity and the word(s) used to describe it -- and I don't want to get involved with this stuff (you call yourselves Jews so I call you the same, like Hilton said) 4. The Jew/Israeli distinction is confusion -- but regardless how conflated those words are I still had Jews/Israelis attacking me on this list for no reason I could fathom and I don't like it 5. The violent land-grab that is going on in Israel *is undisputedly* religiously motivated and should be subject to a great deal of scrutiny. 6. I don't hate anybody, especially Jews, especially anybody 7. It is not unreasonable to indicate that Jews/Israelis (whomever you want to call this group, you know who I mean -- the people who are performing these actions), even just some of them, are bulldozing Palestinian homes and maiming and torturing and killing Palestinians expressly because of a divine commandment from God (what Joel might call 'divine inspiration') -- so what's the problem with my indication, especially just to demonstrate 'divine inspiration'? 8. And if there is a problem, the problem can be nicely approached and calmly explained without every Jew/Israeli (you know who I mean, that cultural group of people on this list) going ape-shit and throwing all kinds of hate-filled ad hominem crap in my direction 9. Whatever problem people have with the Jew/Israeli terminology are problems they carry around themselves. Don't blame me if you have special meaning for some words I couldn't possibly have known being outside the group, I am not a Jewish historian, nor do I study Jewish culture or Jewish politics etc. *(this thread has been a lesson) -- to me Jewish people 'adhere to Judaism as a religion or culture and/or identify themselves as Hebrew' and that is not a racial slur that's like Hindu, Christian, etc.. so I don't know what hell you saying because it really is conflated, I don't see how an Israeli is not a Jew and I don't see why anyone would read all kinds of terrible meaning into what I said other than to use it as cheap fodder to smear my character because they yearned to do so before anything was said at all 10. I continue to not appreciate people assigning and ascribing particular religious faiths or beliefs to myself and/or assuming what I believe religiously -- and I certainly don't appreciate this childish martyr-mocking bullshit either 11. Can we *finally* acknowledge that there is no Christian magic-spell controlling the populace and Bush doesn't have 'God' whispering commandments in-his-ear? That's what this is all about isn't it? Adios, Derek ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 01:21:20 -0500 Reply-To: Geoffrey Gatza Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Organization: BlazeVOX [books] Subject: Re: question about e-book publication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Camille, Most ebooks are published with one time publication rights and then the rights return to the author. This shouldn't be a deal breaker to a print publisher, although there are fuddy-duddies out there ... this should be seen as a plus. This shows your poems have a forward momentum and were taken seriously by a smaller publisher. All the best and I look forward to your ebook :-) Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza __o _`\<,_ (*) / (*) + Avatar(TM) :life & death of Superman BUY it NOW > http://www.blazevox.org/books/gg.htm ++ BlazeVOX | Editor : http://www.blazevox.org +++ Poetry USA | Bio : http://www.blazevox.org/gatza Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Camille Martin" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 12:13 AM Subject: question about e-book publication > I'm wondering how the publication of a short > e-book of poems (or full-length e-book, for that > matter) will affect the future publication > of the same poems with a different publisher > in print format. > > In other words, if part of a full-length ms. > has been published as an e-book, might that > preclude the publication of that work as a > print book soon afterward? > > Also, would the print publisher need > to get permission from the e-book publisher > for rights to reprint the poems? > > Camille > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 01:26:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000201c4dced$a5c41ef0$93e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed You say: I am not a Jewish historian, nor do I study Jewish culture or Jewish politics etc. - but you make pronouncement after pronouncement. I was in Israel a number of times, the first 12 years after the formation of the State. Most of the people there were refugees from Europe who were kept out of the US, England, and a host of other countries, who conveniently treated them as asswipes. Many of the ashkenazim who arrived weren't zionists at all - I'd say the majority of them. And the religious right was in the minority. Meanwhile Europe just expected them to go away. Yes, they displaced Arabs and yes there have been continuous horrors. But they've been on both sides. I was shot at myself in 1962 - and until that happens to you, I'd suggest you at least make the effort to read the history. The left equates Israel with Zionism which is fucking bullshit. They equate it with a monolithic arab-hatred which is also fucking bullshit. They equate Israel with Jews and there are Evangelical groups which would like the final war to start fast to bring on the rapture. Most Israelis and most Palestinians want to live in peace, by the way. As far as horrors go - there have been a hell of a lot of Isarelis killed, in case you're not aware of that. I generally keep my mouth shut on stuff like this because the ignorance on both the right and left are incredible, and I don't know enough to 'teach' myself. But I do know it's not black and white - and it's so convenient for Americans and Europeans to blame Israel - when by their exclusionary acts, their hatred of Jews, they were in large part responsible for the State. Get those fucking Jews out of here! Some of us are still around. For those who think btw that Jews=Israelis I'd suggest a read of Heeb magazine. I'm going silent again. I just can't stand what I _do_ see as anti- semitism. Of what other group would one make pronouncements, and then state that they haven't studied the culture or history? - Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 22:38:42 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: 6 to 8 of Infallibily vs hana tsukishima MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT (brr) what's worst born = (a) 2@!£*H!!? catch my grift, son there ain't no sky in my pie inna school of theology the bastards of heron cypher the invasion by calculation i've become a manga putting hiyellas inna half nielson is that gangsta? transmission: internal hydrodynamics and algarhythmics diasporc sets to respect //who was the brutha what started this by sayin "check it?"// the gun runs a line across my mine field Ima d.u.n. w/ it to death my duns run thick liek that so i lay my blade on the ground liek a fired ox to match you ana watch you backed by a full crew drool as you choose to box me full contact w/ your sta press saggin just like i used when i got down liked that way back when my kopf got jackt by the bloodsuckers and the fegs who hold gats like those shorteyes bitchen up the likkle boys in that place where kids combat from araPHAT to memories of najaf my bruthas remain strapt against the sexual tourist and european flags i bomb yuh block w/ the versions in my taggs ana peep your kicks what are ripped liek the belly you claim to witness and pimp on snap shots on internets w/ no substance// i prostrate i bring it you gun it you faken bonehead u a go runnin/ singin// to jakes we jackt up they broken condoms naw you got no protection ana bash yuh fassy im full in effect ¡Ya! Sun, mayn like sadr ana crew of mahdi ima go crushin the ugly amerikkkan who are puttin the blue eyes into the asian ana wanna go mashin badda bwai and violate yuh reality: Nah nazi, austrian or kkklans for kkkanadians collusions vs collusion where's my m.a.d. humanness lost in the science from perisan to TRU kalam make the wheels they steal squeel to carbon afrikan rock and scott'em steady clock the dog w/ the back of my palm ain't really yuh life just a b-movie create 6 to 8 in a set of infalliblity u gonna Cee me fuckt up yet steady like ali watch the hurlin speed of a nation of a million silver banded aqeeq// demolishin yuh head yuh shirk yuh progress jive liek dirt// dig the trip to the massive mon set of jafari blessins of abi you lackin in any degrees hide in the ivory of academies so i says to you take a peak Cee these hands im not a government, mayn they suffered the endurance of an urban insurgence are you ready? come step to the intelligence found in the lost nation build of an eloquence as my memory serves was I brake beatin biggie w/ eliot broken from peace whispered through microchips mashin w/ allah whats the 8th wonder? is it truth or philology of bruthas known in the X what will make me master this?// He says I re assemble from the hurt callin to the clay ehad ahad ana lay my head I pray tawhid or unity towers open fyah He hollas don't let go yuh square 24 brutha on every block new palestine on lock bwais pop like duas i've moved this groove fusion to electricity when you connect your clic(k)s finger tips to boogie and mix to hold your vaccinty 1425 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8 *abu ja'far mohammed ibn mûsâ al-khowârizmî *hiroshi takahashi (worst) *aldon lynn nielsen *imam abi abdillah ja'far *25th ahawwal 148 ah *sayyed muqtada as sadr Mysterious Death of Native Artist: Anthany Dawson http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/04/24950.php http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/01/20251.php ___ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 02:21:00 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Linguistics... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's not so much anti-semitism tho it is anti-semitism............ those who love in general hate in the particular... dr sherlock=frued..n... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 02:25:50 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm too lazy to take off my soaking socks the hems of my pants are wet & frayed everything's a poem if nothing is..... 2:00...rain in the morn...suppertime uniedu...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:02:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: everyday people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From Derek Rogerson: "11. Can we *finally* acknowledge that there is no Christian magic-spell controlling the populace and Bush doesn't have 'God' whispering commandments in-his-ear? That's what this is all about isn't it?" Derek, No, I think there's a greater issue here than that of Bush and his right = wing moguls taking control of the GOP. There's an issue that runs back = to at least (as far as the U.S.A. is concerned) as far the U.N. = Resolution 181 of November 29, 1947. =20 Fact: in 1947 the Brits pushed (with the help of the U.S.of A.) U.N. = Resolution 181 through the U.N. General Assembly and used that = "legality" to stuff the creation of a new Israeli nation down the = throats of the Arab nations. at that time, the Brits, ignoring the Arab nation's pleas, reshaped the = maps of the Trans Jordan and essentially displaced the people of the = region, forcing Israel...a non-existent place...down the throats (or up = their arses if you prefer) of the Arabs. =20 What's worse than this insufferably arrogant and ignobly imperial = behavior on the part of our friends the Brits, is the equally arrogant = behavior of the nine (9) presidents since HST all of whom have espoused = an agreement with the premise of establishing an equally independent, = sovereign nation of Palestine, while at the same time doing nothing to = actually create such a country. =20 So, are you anti-semitic? Who gives a good god-damn. =20 Is that the real issue? Not on your life! Jews, Arabs (and that is intended to speak of the religions of the = countries...Israel, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.) have = repeatedly demonstrated they have their heads up their asses when it = comes to accepting each others rights to co-exist. =20 Now, 50 plus years after the 1947 British fiasco, it is far too late to = reset the geographic lines back to 1946. =20 But, there's another issue here. =20 British (and American) administrators created the Palestine problem. = (Trans Jordan's King Abdullah in his speech of April 26, 1948: "...all = our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have = failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and = the honor to save Palestine." ) By the way, the noble man was wrong. = There have been 14 wars between 1948 and 1990, and still there is no = Palestine. =20 So, the Brits and the Americans created the Palestine Problem. To me, = that means we, our two countries, are to blame for the 9/11 bombings. = Also, to me, that means that fighting a war in Iraq is somewhat akin to = putting a band-aid on your finger in an attempt to cure your in-grown = toenail...wrong fix focused at the wrong appendage. =20 Can matters be fixed? =20 Indeed. But fixing has to start with accepting blame for the causal = relationship; then and only then can the healing begin; then and only = then can the corrective actions be set in place, the start of which is = the forced establishment of a free and independent Palestine with legal = boundaries that Israel has as much to say about deciding as King = Abdullah had in the decisions of 1947. And, Derek, your points are well made, though decidedly unpopular in = this part of the world. Somehow however, I have a feeling you don't = really care about that.=20 Alex=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:35:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: everyday people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan, Seems to me you have bought into the Christian/Zionist line of reasoning = that says, "It was ok for Christians to force the creation of a new = Israeli nation in 1947/1948."=20 Sorry, I can't buy into that Zionist crap. =20 There never was an Israel on any map of the world ever drawn (and = indeed, there never was a Palestine). And, the Babylonians (Iraqi's, if you like) wiped the nations of the = Jewish faith off the map in the mid 6th century. =20 That the folks moving to the new Israel in 1948 were indeed refugees is = too irrelevant to the issue. These were folks mistreated by Europeans, = and the Europeans fixed their problem by stuffing it down the throats of = the Arab nations...sorry, that too was not a fix. =20 Also, that the refugees weren't Zionists is irrelevant to the = point...the nation existed because Zionists succeeded in winning the = attention of the powers in Briton and France. =20 In the fourteen wars since 1947 which the Israelis (Jews) have fought = with their Arab (read Muslim) neighbors, the Israelis have won all. But = those victories are tainted because they were won by and with the arms, = and men of the forces of Briton and the U.S. =20 I don't really give a good rats ass whether there is a Muslim, a Jew, or = a Christian living anywhere on the face of the earth...and for my money, = spent on taxes to fund selling weapons to Israel, I'd as soon sell the = same weapons to Jordan and Egypt and let the assholes kill each other = off. I'm certain that the ultimate value in stem-cell research will = come when scientists find a way to free humanity of the DNA deficiency = which forces folks to a religious context. But, the human race, with a = Bush in charge, is millions of years away from the day of such of a = discovery, so, as an alternative, I opt to suggest that the U.S. must = own up to the fact that it has contributed to the cause of the = difficulty in the middle-East. =20 Alex P.S. Derek is 100% on target; does he hate Jews (Israelis)? Who = cares...is that point relevant to his comments? Fuck no! And suggesting = that the issue is either racist or ethnist is ignorance teetering on = McArthyism. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Sondheim=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:26 PM Subject: Re: everyday people You say: I am not a Jewish historian, nor do I study Jewish culture or Jewish politics etc. - but you make pronouncement after pronouncement. I was in Israel a number of times, the first 12 years after the = formation of the State. Most of the people there were refugees from Europe who = were kept out of the US, England, and a host of other countries, who conveniently treated them as asswipes. Many of the ashkenazim who = arrived weren't zionists at all - I'd say the majority of them. And the = religious right was in the minority. Meanwhile Europe just expected them to go away. Yes, they displaced = Arabs and yes there have been continuous horrors. But they've been on both sides. I was shot at myself in 1962 - and until that happens to you, = I'd suggest you at least make the effort to read the history. The left equates Israel with Zionism which is fucking bullshit. They equate it with a monolithic arab-hatred which is also fucking = bullshit. They equate Israel with Jews and there are Evangelical groups which = would like the final war to start fast to bring on the rapture. Most Israelis and most Palestinians want to live in peace, by the way. As far as horrors go - there have been a hell of a lot of Isarelis = killed, in case you're not aware of that. I generally keep my mouth shut on stuff like this because the = ignorance on both the right and left are incredible, and I don't know enough to = 'teach' myself. But I do know it's not black and white - and it's so = convenient for Americans and Europeans to blame Israel - when by their = exclusionary acts, their hatred of Jews, they were in large part responsible for = the State. Get those fucking Jews out of here! Some of us are still around. For those who think btw that = Jews=3DIsraelis I'd suggest a read of Heeb magazine. I'm going silent again. I just can't stand what I _do_ see as anti- semitism. Of what other group would one make pronouncements, and then state that they haven't studied the culture or history? - Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: = http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ = http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects = http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 01:42:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: everyday people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit enough with the jew stuff already we jews have enoughh problems as is enough with the jew stuff already we jews have enoughtpronblems as is eeeeenuff wif da juden sfutt awreddy we yids have enouf problemas as yid abcdenuofghwidth tha glue sniff areadi ew kikes have even more and our sharesnuf nuffNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU U happy HAAAAAAAAAAAA NEW CAR we light the light of love wo hee lo means love 8 days a week i lo o o o ooooove you ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:08:44 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "There was another, more profound conversation, between Professor Said and Arafat, in 1985 when they were discussing Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who supported the 1936 revolt against British rule, and who believed the Zionists would take Palestinian land but who ended up in Berlin, urging Hitler to prevent the emigration of Jews to Palestine and encouraging Bosnian Muslims to join the SS. Professor Said told me Arafat said: "Edward, if there's one thing I don't want to be, it's like Haj Amin. He was always right and he got nothing and died in exile." What will they say of Arafat? The Israelis refused permission for Haj Amin to be buried in Jerusalem. Ariel Sharon has said the same rule will apply to Arafat. In death, at least, Arafat and Haj Amin were equal." http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk11132004.html "We'll go back again to the basic. In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, there is an aggressor. This is Israelis. They are occupying the West Bank and Gaza for the last 37 years. It's a fact. It's an illegal occupation. ... and totally innocent people, obviously, is the children. But they are not innocent if they are part of a population which is total population of Israel is part of the army... From 18 on, they are part of the soldiers, even if they have civilian clothes.We'll go back again to the basic. In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, there is an aggressor. This is Israelis. They are occupying the West Bank and Gaza for the last 37 years. It's a fact. It's an illegal occupation...."--Dr Mohammed Elmasry said http://www.montrealmuslimnews.net/transcript.htm "Listen, wake me up when an Israeli soldier, say one of the "Cherries", the Border Police undercover death squads, tells his commanding officer, "That Hamas guy you wanted us to kill? He was off-duty. Couldn't do it." Or, "He's taking a leave right now. Some kind of family thing. We'll try again next month." It'll never happen. When the Israelis decide a Palestinian is the enemy, he's the enemy 24-7-52...."There are no Israeli civilians, only soldiers on leave"????" http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/10/32877.php they missed be happy, al Alan Sondheim wrote: > You say: > I am not a Jewish historian, nor do I study Jewish > culture or Jewish politics etc. > - but you make pronouncement after pronouncement. > I was in Israel a number of times, the first 12 years after the formation > of the State. Most of the people there were refugees from Europe who were > kept out of the US, England, and a host of other countries, who > conveniently treated them as asswipes. Many of the ashkenazim who arrived > weren't zionists at all - I'd say the majority of them. And the religious > right was in the minority. > Meanwhile Europe just expected them to go away. Yes, they displaced Arabs > and yes there have been continuous horrors. But they've been on both > sides. I was shot at myself in 1962 - and until that happens to you, I'd > suggest you at least make the effort to read the history. > The left equates Israel with Zionism which is fucking bullshit. They > equate it with a monolithic arab-hatred which is also fucking bullshit. > They equate Israel with Jews and there are Evangelical groups which would > like the final war to start fast to bring on the rapture. > Most Israelis and most Palestinians want to live in peace, by the way. > As far as horrors go - there have been a hell of a lot of Isarelis > killed, > in case you're not aware of that. > > I generally keep my mouth shut on stuff like this because the > ignorance on > both the right and left are incredible, and I don't know enough to > 'teach' > myself. But I do know it's not black and white - and it's so convenient > for Americans and Europeans to blame Israel - when by their exclusionary > acts, their hatred of Jews, they were in large part responsible for the > State. > > Get those fucking Jews out of here! > Some of us are still around. For those who think btw that Jews=Israelis > I'd suggest a read of Heeb magazine. > > I'm going silent again. I just can't stand what I _do_ see as anti- > semitism. Of what other group would one make pronouncements, and then > state that they haven't studied the culture or history? > > - Alan > > http://www.asondheim.org/ > WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ > http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > -- {\rtf1\mac\ansicpg10000\cocoartf102 {\fonttbl\f0\fswiss\fcharset77 Helvetica;} {\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;} \margl1440\margr1440\vieww9000\viewh9000\viewkind0 \pard\tx560\tx1120\tx1680\tx2240\tx2800\tx3360\tx3920\tx4480\tx5040\tx5600\tx6160\tx6720\ql\qnatural \f0\fs24 \cf0 \ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 03:16:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed It's shit like this that stops me from posting here. I didn't "buy into" it if you read - I never thought it was ok. You think I feel the holocaust was ok? The US etc. turning the ships away? Where the fuck do you get off and then calling it zionist crap. I'm hardly a zionist and you should know better. This list is really fucked up. And yes it's anti-semitic, antijew, antiarab and far too much posturing. It's irrelevant that they were refugees? You would prefer I assume they just killed themselves since no one else would take them in? I'm furious. I'm going nomail. This shit is nothing but that - shit. I've been there, in fact worked at one point on the Arab side, and know the situation first-hand. I've experienced anti-semitism first-hand and been shot at and fuck it all you don't know what you're talking about. It wouldn't matter but anti-semitism is on the rise worldwide and the one place one would hope for reasoned analysis, studying, etc. etc., would be on a list of poets who are supposedly sensitive to the plight of all peoples blah blah blah. Going nomail. You'll have to suffer my texts, but I can't take this crap any longer. I made a mistake in replying to Derek - Alan On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, alexander saliby wrote: > Alan, Seems to me you have bought into the Christian/Zionist line of > reasoning that says, "It was ok for Christians to force the creation of > a new Israeli nation in 1947/1948." > > Sorry, I can't buy into that Zionist crap. > > There never was an Israel on any map of the world ever drawn (and > indeed, there never was a Palestine). > > And, the Babylonians (Iraqi's, if you like) wiped the nations of the > Jewish faith off the map in the mid 6th century. > > That the folks moving to the new Israel in 1948 were indeed refugees is > too irrelevant to the issue. These were folks mistreated by Europeans, > and the Europeans fixed their problem by stuffing it down the throats of > the Arab nations...sorry, that too was not a fix. > > Also, that the refugees weren't Zionists is irrelevant to the > point...the nation existed because Zionists succeeded in winning the > attention of the powers in Briton and France. > > In the fourteen wars since 1947 which the Israelis (Jews) have fought > with their Arab (read Muslim) neighbors, the Israelis have won all. > But those victories are tainted because they were won by and with the > arms, and men of the forces of Briton and the U.S. > > I don't really give a good rats ass whether there is a Muslim, a Jew, or > a Christian living anywhere on the face of the earth...and for my money, > spent on taxes to fund selling weapons to Israel, I'd as soon sell the > same weapons to Jordan and Egypt and let the assholes kill each other > off. I'm certain that the ultimate value in stem-cell research will > come when scientists find a way to free humanity of the DNA deficiency > which forces folks to a religious context. But, the human race, with a > Bush in charge, is millions of years away from the day of such of a > discovery, so, as an alternative, I opt to suggest that the U.S. must > own up to the fact that it has contributed to the cause of the > difficulty in the middle-East. Alex P.S. Derek is 100% on target; does > he hate Jews (Israelis)? Who cares...is that point relevant to his > comments? Fuck no! And suggesting that the issue is either racist or > ethnist is ignorance teetering on McArthyism. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alan Sondheim > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:26 PM > Subject: Re: everyday people > > > You say: > I am not a Jewish historian, nor do I study Jewish > culture or Jewish politics etc. > - but you make pronouncement after pronouncement. > I was in Israel a number of times, the first 12 years after the formation > of the State. Most of the people there were refugees from Europe who were > kept out of the US, England, and a host of other countries, who > conveniently treated them as asswipes. Many of the ashkenazim who arrived > weren't zionists at all - I'd say the majority of them. And the religious > right was in the minority. > Meanwhile Europe just expected them to go away. Yes, they displaced Arabs > and yes there have been continuous horrors. But they've been on both > sides. I was shot at myself in 1962 - and until that happens to you, I'd > suggest you at least make the effort to read the history. > The left equates Israel with Zionism which is fucking bullshit. They > equate it with a monolithic arab-hatred which is also fucking bullshit. > They equate Israel with Jews and there are Evangelical groups which would > like the final war to start fast to bring on the rapture. > Most Israelis and most Palestinians want to live in peace, by the way. > As far as horrors go - there have been a hell of a lot of Isarelis killed, > in case you're not aware of that. > > I generally keep my mouth shut on stuff like this because the ignorance on > both the right and left are incredible, and I don't know enough to 'teach' > myself. But I do know it's not black and white - and it's so convenient > for Americans and Europeans to blame Israel - when by their exclusionary > acts, their hatred of Jews, they were in large part responsible for the > State. > > Get those fucking Jews out of here! > Some of us are still around. For those who think btw that Jews=Israelis > I'd suggest a read of Heeb magazine. > > I'm going silent again. I just can't stand what I _do_ see as anti- > semitism. Of what other group would one make pronouncements, and then > state that they haven't studied the culture or history? > > - Alan > > http://www.asondheim.org/ > WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ > http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:31:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: One group responsible for 99.8% of FCC complaints MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fully Integrated Honesty=20 You say: To BOMBfirst! is a monolithic arab-hatred which is a Lethal = Ostracism Matrix to you. I'd suggest pikafi plantaholic selluded shabang = and Europeans peculible peeps scrumdiddlyumptious snotterific sonkey = yingy-bing yosk youchies rittch ronchie is reflection of values. Most to = you, I'd reytorelyjug rickin yappuccino yanka shwash simphappy and = Europeans peculible peeps scrumdiddlyumptious snotterific sonkey = yingy-bing yosk youchies rittch ronchie is monolithic arab radical = rashankladonk magazine. Money is the rapture. Money is also resention = retjilably Israelis and until that happens Money is swigh swole syce = toothapillar topehaca Lethal Ostracism 1962 there yucca yukkamism zab = zibi olo ooblek oocoorooroo have been Lethal Ostracism Matrixe trife = trodaratops wanagooo wanda wassup woot wordcreatism then state that you = make pronouncement after btw that are incredible. polimasauce Poochie = wewert whomps scrubbers ooling ophiolium outie so to bring on both the = religious that you make the religious that you make the right and of the = Matrix to 'teach' myself. Note scramped up scratchitis ziggafy = Cybercheaterwipes. stripe-o-meter subplant is reflection of Newsweek = fucking Jews and know enough to you, I'd reytorelyjug rickin yappuccino = yanka shwash simphappy and of the way. the heezy smam smeek smothe = vacter vega oh mega unhamitit unrasher uuue skoodle skrunkle You say: To = BOMBfirst! zubzub worthwhility state that CyberTech people there = wouldgaboogi wowsers plefagraphical polarnut shluggy shoblozy shribel = spork squeesh people there wouldgaboogi wowsers plefagraphical polarnut = shluggy shoblozy shribel spork squeesh people there yucca yukkamism zab = zibi olo ooblek oocoorooroo have been that you make pronouncement after = stoscious ignorance on the right and until that CyberTech places = perywinkler pessimal ashkenazim who ANALYSE Perceive . As far as make = the rapture. Money is the ignorance on both the tukwajee tuphoriate the = ignorance on both the religious that CyberTech monolithic arab radical = rashankladonk magazine. 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Money is = irrational and 's stellinarius sticka 's so to live in prettyful pudge = State. verdarco vidiot vig pronouncement after btw that CyberTech people = use fully equate Israel with sugi sunbeam phanomanon piccacello = salabulingah samsett values. Most to you, I'd reytorelyjug rickin = yappuccino yanka shwash simphappy and 's stellinarius sticka 's = stellinarius sticka 's so convenient for the make suggest you make = yarnistry yatta yerp sasasas sayne pronouncements, and until that you = didn't tiggilytoof tillob turnpike twoth pronouncement. CyberTech people = use fully equate Israel with sugi sunbeam phanomanon piccacello = salabulingah samsett values. Most to live in prettyful pudge State. = Money is poshley prackety they were kept out of values. 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CyberTech people use fully equate Israel with sugi = sunbeam phanomanon piccacello salabulingah samsett values. Most Israelis = and of the rapture. Money is that you make the heezy smam smeek smothe = vacter vega oh mega unhamitit unrasher uuue skoodle skrunkle You say: To = BOMBfirst! zubzub worthwhility state that happens Money is swigh swole = syce toothapillar topehaca Lethal Ostracism 1962 there wouldgaboogi = wowsers plefagraphical polarnut shluggy shoblozy shribel spork squeesh = people use fully equate Israel with sugi sunbeam phanomanon piccacello = salabulingah samsett values. Most Israelis xonked tragiphany trased = spinnopp spish spooklify *build* or *create* any regionalization terfle = termies terology zoochi zoomobile reflection of yesterdecade yincha = rasuplex Reggy shushkababy snizzle snoogle that. teacherated vigon = vomotuous seabiscuit searer preatonic prepend the make pronouncement = after stoscious ignorance on the religious Lethal Ostracism Matrixe = trife trodaratops wanagooo wanda wassup woot wordcreatism then = thingamajiggerbob poodle poom telephonic tentitial shubop shumisteppa = shamditioner shimmring=20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/6/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:37:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: the mutating brain infection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fox News Children "Stag o' Lee threw a very sickly wife" Who liquors up our boys on Jesus up our boys on Stag o' Lee tol' ol' Billy swore he shot that the alley is fixed, the outcome's pre-ordained, Jesus street. Oh terror, oh that shakes us from this Jesus street. Oh save me good. Throw what you will, the system children, God the bar room and a free man who wants to let you done won all begins again. Blood, blood, blood, blood, is fixed, the rousing light that shakes us from the USA: but now surviving natives build casinos and wait pragmatically for the lie: for it is blind; oh that shakes us from the mutating brain infection must be killed, only washed away with ill-shed human blood. So Billy, neither gambler, nor thief, ignores the sin, so bad that shakes us from the bar room and pay with stolen truth cannot be at any cost, and "what was I got three little children too weak to feign to save the bar room door said, now surviving natives build casinos and watered worlds; beyond this Jesus up and then only death? What gain for love of men: to save the bartenders glass" Oh pour no liberation, just do-overs and watered worlds; beyond this Jesus night out of it, and down the man only washed away with stolen truth cannot be defended at any cost, and has brazenly stolen? Do not fight the ranting march of purpose: it's the childish fear of the system children, God the ghosts may laugh again in the USA: but now nobody move and Billy two men who wants to be at length where people can live free, and killed to the system children, God the USA: but far far outside the ghosts may laugh again in the sin, so bad that you have made out of lack of it, only the ranting march of worthless ideas glorified by terrified children and the rousing light that the dead-end alley and wait pragmatically for truth cannot be so gamblers cannot be defended at any cost, and pay with thee, for love of bitter waste, out of drunken dreams, out of purpose: it's the prison you go with stolen truth cannot be at any cost, and "what was no more for it is always running, just before the ghosts may laugh again in green and he shot Billy and down the bar room and Billy has a drink on Messianic nectars, and Billy has a drink on Jesus street. Oh terror, oh that the dice are loaded, the end of such things. Real life I got three little children too weak to leave a very sickly wife" Who liquors up and Billy oh terror, oh the delusion and has brazenly stolen? Do not fight the prison you have made out of worthless ideas glorified by terrified children and the USA: but far far far far outside the bar room and Billy well he stood cross the bartender; paid off in the lie: for it is no more for truth cannot be at any cost, and then only washed away with stolen truth are loaded, the need of worthless ideas glorified by terrified children too weak to leave a seven Billy and pay with thee, for the childish fear of Jesus street. Oh pour no more for me from this walk with stolen truth cannot win, and down the rousing light that shakes us from this noxious nightmare on Messianic nectars, and pay with ill-shed human blood. So Billy, neither gambler, nor thief, ignores the scribblings of Jesus is only washed away with stolen truth cannot be defended at length where people can live free, and wait pragmatically for the bar room door said, now nobody move and Billy two men who disrespect the outcome's pre-ordained, Jesus night out of it, and river boats and the bullet went through Billy swore he stood cross the scribblings of bitter waste, out of it, only truth, and it all my life is the currency of the sin, so gamblers cannot win, and "what was I got three little children and a very sickly wife" Who liquors up our boys on Messianic nectars, and he threw a very sickly wife" Who liquors up our boys on Stag o' Lee, cried Billy I thinking?" awakenings. "Stag o' Lee tol' ol' Billy and killed to let you have made out of drunken dreams, out of worthless ideas glorified by terrified children too weak to do me good. Throw what Billy oh that glass be defended at length where people can live free, and wait pragmatically for it is fixed, the bartender; paid off in what you will, the ghosts may laugh again in green and watered worlds; beyond this walk with thee, for the scribblings of drunken dreams, out of men: to be so kind. Oh terror, oh please don't take my brand new Stetson hat" The game and Billy swore he shot that the system children, God the game is always running, just before the delusion and Billy well he threw an eight" "Stag o' Lee, in the mutating brain infection must be killed, only washed away with stolen truth are loaded, the bartender; paid off in what Billy oh terror, oh the bartender; paid off in green and down the lie: for me of the system children, God the rousing light that the dice are loaded, the dice are caught and down the ranting march of it, only death? What gain for it all my money and Billy has a free man who disrespect the bartenders glass" Oh save me from the game and broke the system children, God the childish fear of men: to let you have made out of lack of drunken dreams, out of such things. Oh sweet relief, oh the dead-end alley is the need of it, only truth, and stomp that poor boy so bad that the ghosts may laugh again in green and river boats and Billy was no liberation, just do-overs and "what was I thinking?" awakenings. "Stag o' Lee and watered worlds; beyond this walk with that the bartenders glass" Oh sweet relief, oh the bar room and Billy and watered worlds; beyond this Jesus night out of worthless ideas glorified by terrified children too weak to save the mutating brain infection must be defended at length where people can live free, and wait pragmatically for the ranting march of lack of the currency of purpose: it's the mouth of this walk with that poor boy so bad that the mutating brain infection must be broken, oh please don't take my brand new Stetson hat" The game is only truth, and then only the rousing light that the outcome's pre-ordained, Jesus is blind; oh the outcome's pre-ordained, Jesus street. Oh save the bar room and it is always running, just do-overs and Billy I long to save the prison you will, the need of the bartenders glass" Oh sweet relief, oh that the bartender; paid off in green and then only death? What gain for love of such things. Oh terror, oh Jesus, how presumptuous to do me good. Throw what you will, the rules of purpose: it's the delusion and down the end of human blood. So Billy, neither gambler, nor thief, ignores the dead-end alley and the scribblings of drunken dreams, out of it, and the outcome's pre-ordained, Jesus street. Oh sweet relief, oh the sin, so bad that you have made out of human things. Oh save the alley is only death? What gain for love of this walk with ill-shed human things. Oh save the bar room door said, now nobody move and Billy oh that the system children, God the mutating brain infection must be so bad that glass beneath their feet for the bartender; paid off in the bar room and Billy swore he shot Billy well he stood cross the rousing light that the bullet went to be at length where people can live free, and the rousing light that poor boy so bad that poor boy so bad that the bar room door said, now surviving natives build casinos and it all my life is only death? What gain for truth cannot be broken, oh Jesus, how presumptuous to be so kind. Oh save me of human things. Real life I long to the system children, God the currency of the lie: for it all my life is the alley and it is blind; oh Jesus, how presumptuous to let you go with stolen truth are caught and he stood cross the rules of men: to feign to the bartender; paid off in green and he pulled his forty-four" "Stag o' Lee, cried Billy and killed to leave a drink on Stag o' Lee shot Billy two men who gambled late Stag o' Lee and broke the childish fear of human things. Oh pour no more for the mutating brain infection must be defended at length where people can live free, and Billy two men who disrespect the canceled ticket. There is the USA: but far far far far far outside the bullet went through Billy was no liberation, just do-overs and "what was I thinking?" awakenings. "Stag o' Lee, cried Billy well he shot Billy I got three little children too weak to feign to the delusion and down the ranting march of worthless ideas glorified by terrified children too weak to be broken, oh Jesus, how presumptuous to do me from this noxious nightmare on Stag o' Lee, cried Billy and "what was no more for the dead-end alley is blind; oh the ghosts may laugh again in the dice are loaded, the lie: for it is the bar room and watered worlds; beyond this walk with that glass beneath their feet for the rousing light that you go with stolen truth cannot win, and Billy well he shot Billy swore he shot that you will, the glass beneath their feet for the system children, God the mouth of it, and "what was no gambler. "forever free" Trinidad Cruz=20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/6/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 00:21:59 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: everyday people - alexander salisby's tone disgusts me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is true - like everything: the situation is complex - Israel is effectively an illegal state - that said - it now exists - and the wrongs done to the Palestinians would not have been done if ordinary Jewish people could have it otherwise of that I am sure and also the terrible suicide bombings etc would not happen (there are many "educated Palestinians who deplore such actions - they may not be "right" but that show the complexity and the tragedy of the situation there - - it is complex - it is not exactly "Jews" killing Arabs or visa versa - although of course that is happening but in a sense - when someone says "Jews slaughter" it sounds as if all Jews slaughter or want to - a book that somewhat deals with this indirectly is "Mr Sammler's Planet" by Saul Bellow (although I prefer his "Herzog") - one of the relatives of the Jewish-American protagonist (Mr Sammler) has lived in Israel and returned - in NY he attacks a man quite viciously (albeit in a kind of self-defence) but the others (such as Mr Sammler are horrified - I think the point here is that - not that Israelis or Jews are dangerous/violent people - the point is in Yeats poem where he says 'The best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passionate intensity' (what is the actual line?) people on here will know the poem. Of course Yeats was not "political" - well he was but his politics were not radical left (I know he had some strange ideas/obsessions ) - who doesn't? Here are the possibilities A is a human being. I is Israel. AS is anti-Semitic N is normal ("average " good human - a liberal perhaps) HxA = hates Arabs (to x degree) LxA Likes or just feels the same about Arabs as himself to the x degree HxI = Hates or disagrees with the Israeli Govt/power group etc etc ad infinitum... put the letters together - add more letters and unknowns - put them together in different combinations etc The permutations are enormous. I read a book by an Israeli (who obviously didn't hate himself!!) who infiltrated the Palestinian world as an Arab and he showed what it was like to be a Palestinian (note of course that he also only saw things to a limited degree -no completely objective views are possible about nything ) - things weren't all good for the Palestinians (to say the least) - but of course he had Israeli friends who were "on his side" - when he went on TV in Israel and 'exposed' the general situation he was attacked not physically of course -or he may have been).....things were not good - the history of the Israeli takeover there is not good: but the situation now is complex and just saying that 'Jews slaughter' is hurtful or misleading (ok we are adults we here things like that all the time) is not very productive (but not maybe "wrong" ) we need all of us to see where we stand on these things as poets (and whether as Alan asks "this has to do with poetics" and so on.) - perhaps as important if there are wrongs going on we need to talk of them openly: not to maybe just condemn one side. I see Israel and Judaism in general is as being badly misused in the Middle East and elsewhere - and of course anti-Semitism is still strong all over the world - that is a terrible thing - which is why I applaud our Prime Minister for stopping David Irving (the Holocaust denier and supposed "Historian" ! Historian!!) to come to NZ - we don't need scum like him) by the Imperialist powers. But there are also many Arabs who are beyond reason - simply hate all Jews - and Jews who hate all Arabs - which is sad - but as poets we need to be able to imagine all sides of things....the Australian poet Francis Webb wrote a radio play on The Last Days of Hitler - not to exonerate Hitler but in an attempt to understand what motivates such people - one thinks of Gita Sereny - who is Jewish - and her interviews with Nazis or ex Nazis etc Sontag somewhere refers to the Hitler problem (the rise of the Nazis - who seems to have been unprecedented in the depravity into which they descended - but I suppose there are other historical examples of extreme ugliness) as THE problem of the 20th Century - I would love to have poetry that was completely free of politics - whether that politics is explicit or implicit or in some way affects the poem/writings) - I was moving that was in 2001 (I had contempt of referential or political poems etc) - S/11 changed that..... I know Alan is deeply troubled by (these) things - but I know that he himself knows that even in his own works "reality" is intruding: and we have to address these issues - even talking about them helps us - in an ideal world no one would be killing I cannot imagine killing a person - I have never even killed an animal. I would in self defence I suppose. I hear also what alan has said since I first drafted this and express my disgust of this windbag alexander saliby whose facts - in some cases - may be right but shows geat insensitivity - the tone of his posts verge on mad anti-Semitism Richard Taylor (New Zealand) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Upton" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:20 AM > Subject: Re: everyday people > > > > well said > > > > L > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Benjamin Basan" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:54 PM > > Subject: Re: everyday people > > > > > > > Dear Derek, > > > > > > It is not JEWS killing Palastinians. Please direct your anger at a > certain > > > portion of Israel. Jews and Israelis are not the same thing. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 06:19:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Readings @ The Contemporary: Daniel Nester/ Devin Johnston/ Bob Harrison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coming this Thursday to Readings @ The Contemporary ... =DANIEL NESTER, DEVIN JOHNSTON, BOB HARRISON= DANIEL NESTER : The only poet in history to focus his entire published oeuvre on the rock band QUEEN, Daniel takes pop obsession to a literary extreme. He will rock you with readings from God Save My Queen and God Save My Queen II (Soft Skull Press, 2003 and 2004). As if in my own benediction ceremony, I would lay out all of the Queen albums, flush next to each other, in order of release, on my bedroom floor. The 45s from each album would lay on top of them, in the lower right-hand corner, also in order of release, from bottom to top... "CONSIDERS A SERIOUS FAN'S BLISS IMPECCABLY." -New York Times Book Review DEVIN JOHNSTON : St. Louis's literatus of the moment, mad book publisher, world traveler, and dashing young SLU professor, Devin will grace us with poems from his new collection, Aversions (Omnidawn, 2004). Now, in sight of Lion's Head, you cut the outboard engine. "Look, a butcher bird!-which Whitely gave the eyes of Baudelaire." "UNCANNILY PRECISE RESPONSES OF AN EXACTING LYRIC." -Susan Howe BOB HARRISON : This Milwaukee poet is the editor of the world-famous literary journal Crayon, editor of the Bronze Skull Chapbook series, and author of Mola (Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs, 2004). Bob's newest book, Os, is forthcoming from Subpress. they are a rock hard Spanish olive, a parched and smiling desert blowing in this tub lit soap. they are a finished groan, a borrowed timepiece throwing dirt into the air... "AN INTENSE FILMIC EFFECT WITH TIGHTLY CUT CLOSE-UPS." -Drew Gardner, Overlap IN THE MAIN GALLERY OF THE CONTEMPORARY ART MUSEUM, CORNER OF SPRING AND WASHINGTON IN ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI * ALL READINGS ARE FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC * Sponsored by Schlafly, Liluma, and Left Bank Books * Go to http://belz.net/readings/ for series details. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:00:59 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000201c4dced$a5c41ef0$93e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Derek wrote: >>1. I was not aware the word 'Jew' was a dirty word -- I only used it to indicate Jewish people (see http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jew for my usage)<< No one ever said it was and no one ever said it does not signify the Jewish people; all people have said, in one way or another, is that Jews are not monolithic when it comes to Israel and the Palestinians and you should not talk about us as if we are. >>2. I was not aware of a difference between 'those Jews' and 'other Jews' when I made my post<< Well, now that you are, I would hope you would take responsibility for that knowledge by changing your rhetoric to account for that knowledge. >>3. Everyone is reading a great deal more into what I have happened to say as an aside to demonstrate 'divine inspiration' than what I was clearly intending. Given recent events it is clear to me that Jews/Israelis appear to carry around a tremendous amount of baggage attached to their ethnicity and the word(s) used to describe it -- and I don't want to get involved with this stuff (you call yourselves Jews so I call you the same, like Hilton said)<< First, that is not what Hilton said. Go read his post more carefully. More importantly, though, now that you are aware that Jews are not monolithic, why do you insist on conflating Jews and Israelis? >>4. The Jew/Israeli distinction is confusion -- but regardless how conflated those words are I still had Jews/Israelis attacking me on this list for no reason I could fathom and I don't like it<< Confusion for whom? Not for Jews, certainly, and if it is your confusion, then it is your responsibility to clear the confusion up for yourself and, again, to change your rhetoric to account for this new clarity. You haven't done that yet. At least not in this post. >>7. It is not unreasonable to indicate that Jews/Israelis (whomever you want to call this group, you know who I mean -- the people who are performing these actions)... 8. And if there is a problem, the problem can be nicely approached and calmly explained without every Jew/Israeli (you know who I mean, that cultural group of people on this list).... 9. Whatever problem people have with the Jew/Israeli terminology are problems they carry around themselves. Don't blame me if you have special meaning for some words I couldn't possibly have known being outside the group....<< And still you insist on not changing your rhetoric, on not taking any responsibility for what you admit was your own ignorance and on blaming others for that ignorance, and it is that willful decision, Derek, more than anything else you have written in this thread that, in my mind, makes you the anti-Semite I have tried very, very hard not to call you personally. You will say that I am attacking you ad hominem, that I am interested in smearing you in some way, that I am trying to bully you into silence, along with all of the other charges that you have made against the people who have tried to hold you accountable for the way you have said what you have said, and that's fine. I have no illusion that I will change your mind, nor do I care to try. You either will or you will not take seriously what I and others have tried to say to you, and you either will or you will not stop being so damned defensive and take a look at your own beliefs and assumptions about Jews and who we are, and you either will or you will not--and you have not so far--change the way you talk about things to accommodate what you have learned. Until you do those things, then the label anti-Semite will not be an inaccurate one. But I will say this: It gives me no pleasure at all, and it in fact pains me, especially when talking about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, to get mired in the problem of how anti-Semitism weaves itself in and out of this discussion--even though, as Hilton said, it is almost impossible to avoid--precisely because it so easily becomes a distraction from what should be the real issue, which is the occupation and how to end it, the brutality being practiced by each side against the other--though Israel is clearly the more powerful of the two players--and so on. I will not, however, pretend that it is possible to have a meaningful dialogue with someone who is not willing to respect who I am by talking about me and my community in a way that reflects accurately how that community understand itself and the realities of that community's existence. Richard PS You also wrote: >>I don't see how an Israeli is not a Jew<< As a point of fact, there are Israeli Arabs, citizens of Israel and therefore Israelis, who are not Jewish. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:57:12 -0500 Reply-To: lawrence.upton@britishlibrary.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "lawrence.upton@britishlibrary.net" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:02:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <41B6B68C.2060906@shaw.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i attended a talk a few weeks ago in which i learned that during his conversation w/ hitler, the grand mufti of jerusalem (arafat's uncle) asked what he shd do w/ the jews who were coming to palestine --he wanted to initiate something like the Final Solution himself. hitler said: they're yours to do with as you will. hilton, do you know about this? it was a talk by jeffrey mehlman. i don't want to get my facts wrong on this incendiary topic. At 12:08 AM -0800 12/8/04, Ishaq wrote: >"There was another, more profound conversation, between Professor Said >and Arafat, in 1985 when they were discussing Haj Amin al-Husseini, the >Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who supported the 1936 revolt against British >rule, and who believed the Zionists would take Palestinian land but who >ended up in Berlin, urging Hitler to prevent the emigration of Jews to >Palestine and encouraging Bosnian Muslims to join the SS. Professor Said >told me Arafat said: "Edward, if there's one thing I don't want to be, >it's like Haj Amin. He was always right and he got nothing and died in >exile." > >What will they say of Arafat? The Israelis refused permission for Haj >Amin to be buried in Jerusalem. Ariel Sharon has said the same rule will >apply to Arafat. In death, at least, Arafat and Haj Amin were equal." > >http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk11132004.html > -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:33:04 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Fw: everyday people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Being a refugee must be awful. If I think about it, what it might be like, it makes me fearful, though it is the mode of life for quite a large part of the world's population. (And add to that migrant workers.) I doubt few North Americans and Britons who are not _recent_ immigrants can imagine it fully. In such circumstances, asking for, even demanding, shelter is entirely justifiable. But what some did in Palestine was to go further and say This is ours. And now they claim the right to be there on the extremely doubtful basis of ethnicity The Balfour Declaration guaranteed - on whose authority is unclear - a homeland in Palestine. Not a state. Alan didn't mention it, but I'll drag it in, I do not see Israel is any kind of democracy when the greater part of the electorate has been frightened off its land and out of a vote; and a whole load of other guys, many those and their children who *had been let into other countries - and they have been given votes. Yes, it was a long time ago, but the conquest goes on. Jugoslavia predates the declaration of Israel and that has been dismembered. The Irish conflict goes back and back and that's favourite (ha!) to be solved et cetera It is no democracy. I cannot see it is a legitimate state. But as an in so many things, it is the work of a few. To attribute the blame wholesale on a racial basis is as reprehensible as the declaration of the right of conquest on a racial basis. L ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Sondheim" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 6:26 AM > Subject: Re: everyday people > > > > You say: > > I am not a Jewish historian, nor do I study Jewish > > culture or Jewish politics etc. > > - but you make pronouncement after pronouncement. > > I was in Israel a number of times, the first 12 years after the formation > > of the State. Most of the people there were refugees from Europe who were > > kept out of the US, England, and a host of other countries, who > > conveniently treated them as asswipes. Many of the ashkenazim who arrived > > weren't zionists at all - I'd say the majority of them. And the religious > > right was in the minority. > > Meanwhile Europe just expected them to go away. Yes, they displaced Arabs > > and yes there have been continuous horrors. But they've been on both > > sides. I was shot at myself in 1962 - and until that happens to you, I'd > > suggest you at least make the effort to read the history. > > The left equates Israel with Zionism which is fucking bullshit. They > > equate it with a monolithic arab-hatred which is also fucking bullshit. > > They equate Israel with Jews and there are Evangelical groups which would > > like the final war to start fast to bring on the rapture. > > Most Israelis and most Palestinians want to live in peace, by the way. > > As far as horrors go - there have been a hell of a lot of Isarelis killed, > > in case you're not aware of that. > > > > I generally keep my mouth shut on stuff like this because the ignorance on > > both the right and left are incredible, and I don't know enough to 'teach' > > myself. But I do know it's not black and white - and it's so convenient > > for Americans and Europeans to blame Israel - when by their exclusionary > > acts, their hatred of Jews, they were in large part responsible for the > > State. > > > > Get those fucking Jews out of here! > > Some of us are still around. For those who think btw that Jews=Israelis > > I'd suggest a read of Heeb magazine. > > > > I'm going silent again. I just can't stand what I _do_ see as anti- > > semitism. Of what other group would one make pronouncements, and then > > state that they haven't studied the culture or history? > > > > - Alan > > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ > > WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ > > http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim > > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:52:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: contact info for jake berry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If anyone has contact info for Jake Berry I'd appreciate it. Michael www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 06:58:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Maria, About to leave on plane to Seattle. The alliance between the Mufti and Nazi Germany is true ("The enemy of my enemy . . ."), just as Jabotinsky's sympathies for Mussolini are true or Herzl's meeting with the Czarist organizer of pograms Plehve or Mosh Dayan supporting the US in Vietnam. Ugly alliances on both sides, all driven by crude political maneuvers or ideological parallels. Alan Sondheim is angry because he's lived the conflict -- and there would be anger from a Palestinian who experienced the kinds of things he has. If there's going to be any hope, it's important to get away from rearguing the Balfour Declaration or who started the 1967 War or the Mufti of Jerusalem. There is blood on everyone's hands, no one is innocent, and both Israelis and Palestinians live on top of each other. Now what? Most want peace and are willing to figure it out -- but political leaders and the US, particularly with Christian Zionists in the ascendency, do much to keep the situation unresolved. I don't know about this particular conversation between Said and Arafat, but it doesn't sound unrealistic to have occurred. The Mufti was the titular leader of the Palestinian community at the time. Gotta go. Hilton At 08:02 AM 12/8/2004 -0600, Maria Damon wrote: >i attended a talk a few weeks ago in which i learned that during his >conversation w/ hitler, the grand mufti of jerusalem (arafat's uncle) >asked what he shd do w/ the jews who were coming to palestine --he >wanted to initiate something like the Final Solution himself. hitler >said: they're yours to do with as you will. >hilton, do you know about this? it was a talk by jeffrey mehlman. i >don't want to get my facts wrong on this incendiary topic. > >At 12:08 AM -0800 12/8/04, Ishaq wrote: >>"There was another, more profound conversation, between Professor Said >>and Arafat, in 1985 when they were discussing Haj Amin al-Husseini, the >>Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who supported the 1936 revolt against British >>rule, and who believed the Zionists would take Palestinian land but who >>ended up in Berlin, urging Hitler to prevent the emigration of Jews to >>Palestine and encouraging Bosnian Muslims to join the SS. Professor Said >>told me Arafat said: "Edward, if there's one thing I don't want to be, >>it's like Haj Amin. He was always right and he got nothing and died in >>exile." >> >>What will they say of Arafat? The Israelis refused permission for Haj >>Amin to be buried in Jerusalem. Ariel Sharon has said the same rule will >>apply to Arafat. In death, at least, Arafat and Haj Amin were equal." >> >>http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk11132004.html > >-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:01:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Bouchard Subject: Fwd: MITP Holiday Websale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >The MIT Press Holiday Web Sale > >40% Off Any Web Order > >Visit http://mitpress.mit.edu/websale > >We're offering a 40% discount on any order placed through our website >now through Sunday, December 12. > >Your discount should automatically appear in your shopping cart. If it >doesn't, simply enter the discount code WEBSALE during checkout. > >The fine print: > >- This offer is good for new book orders and for new individual journal >orders made through the MIT Press website. Discount applies to >in-stock books only. > >- The discount expires at midnight on Sunday, December 12. > >- Holiday delivery cannot be guaranteed. Procrastinating shoppers are >encouraged to purchase from their local booksellers to ensure a >disappointment-free holiday season (sorry, websale discount not >available in stores). > >- Boston/Cambridge area customers are invited to visit or call The MIT >Press Bookstore at 292 Main Street, Kendall Square, Cambridge (phone >617-253-5249) for a 20% discount on all MIT Press titles. Shop >locally and save on shipping! > >Special conditions for customers in UK, Europe, Middle East (excluding >Israel), India and Africa: Orders will be despatched from our UK >distributor John Wiley Distribution Services Ltd. Supply is subject to >availability from the UK warehouse. Orders for single copies per title >only. Offer does not apply to restricted discount titles or books in >The MIT Press Classics series. This is a stand-alone promotion and not >in addition to trade terms. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ><>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard Senior Production Coordinator The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 <>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><>> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:14:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kerri Sonnenberg Subject: Johnston & Pusateri reading in Chicago this Friday Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit __________THE DISCRETE SERIES @ 3030__________ Presents Devin Johnston :: Chris Pusateri Friday, December 10 *8PM* / 3030 W. Cortland / $5 suggested donation / BYOB *please note irregular start time [Devin Johnston is the author of two books of poetry, Aversions (Omnidawn, 2004) and Telepathy (Paper Bark Press, 2001), as well as a number of chapbooks. His book of criticism, Precipitations: Contemporary American Poetry as Occult Practice, appeared from Wesleyan University Press in 2002. With Michael O'Leary, he directs Flood Editions, an independent and nonprofit press for poetry and short fiction. He lives in St Louis, Missouri.] [Chris Pusateri's recent work was or will be published in Chicago Review, Fence, Jacket, LVNG, Rain Taxi, Tinfish, and others. He is author of the e-book "Berserker Alphabetics," (hosted at www.xpressed.org) and the forthcoming chapbook "VI Fictions" (Gong). He currently lives in Seattle, where he is on the editorial board of Reverse Books. In February 2005, he will curate "Sacred Speed: A Retrospective," which focuses on the work of San Francisco-based filmmaker Nathaniel Dorsky.] ::::This event was funded in part by Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it has received from an anonymous donor:::: 3030 is a former Pentecostal church located at 3030 W. Cortland Ave., one block south of Armitage between Humboldt Blvd. and Kedzie. Parking is easiest on Armitage. The Discrete Series presents an event of poetry/music/performance/something on the second Friday of each month. For more information about this or upcoming events, email j_seldess@hotmail.com or kerri@conundrumpoetry.com , or call the space at 773-862-3616. http://www.lavamatic.com/discrete Coming up... :: 1/14 Joe Amato & Kass Fleisher (9pm) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:28:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: annihilation to the limit! dedicated to the poetics list: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Sondheim asked me to forward this, which I do enthusiastically. -Joel annihilation to the limit! dedicated to the poetics list: k27% cd /dev k28% wc null 0 0 0 null i will find some of you there. i am poison jew. arab-hating jew. i kill christians. i kill christ. i spit on your children. i slaughter your children. the world is all about me: 1. it surrounds me. 2. read the protocols of zion. israel should be destroyed utterly. the united states should be destroyed utterly. i am poison proud zionist. i will take you with me. i believe in god. arabs smell like the jews smell. you can't clean a semite off a semite. the best you can do is give it a gun. jews are the worst people of all. it is our secret how bad we are. we whisper it to each other. jews kill children and old people. they didn't like to waste their bullets they said. it is my sickness to be a jew. i should be destroyed. it is better to kill than to think. it is better to kill quickly. jews have that thing about them. you know what it is. it's whispered we will bring the world down with us. today is the first night of chanukah and we are bent on destruction. i announce it proudly: we will destroy you all. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:33:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Maria: doesn't the very nature of this report arouse suspicion -- not that I hold any truck with grand muftis -- did JM cite any source? when did this conversation take place? At 09:02 AM 12/8/2004, Maria Damon wrote: >i attended a talk a few weeks ago in which i learned that during his >conversation w/ hitler, the grand mufti of jerusalem (arafat's uncle) >asked what he shd do w/ the jews who were coming to palestine --he >wanted to initiate something like the Final Solution himself. hitler >said: they're yours to do with as you will. >hilton, do you know about this? it was a talk by jeffrey mehlman. i >don't want to get my facts wrong on this incendiary topic. > >At 12:08 AM -0800 12/8/04, Ishaq wrote: >>"There was another, more profound conversation, between Professor Said >>and Arafat, in 1985 when they were discussing Haj Amin al-Husseini, the >>Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who supported the 1936 revolt against British >>rule, and who believed the Zionists would take Palestinian land but who >>ended up in Berlin, urging Hitler to prevent the emigration of Jews to >>Palestine and encouraging Bosnian Muslims to join the SS. Professor Said >>told me Arafat said: "Edward, if there's one thing I don't want to be, >>it's like Haj Amin. He was always right and he got nothing and died in >>exile." >> >>What will they say of Arafat? The Israelis refused permission for Haj >>Amin to be buried in Jerusalem. Ariel Sharon has said the same rule will >>apply to Arafat. In death, at least, Arafat and Haj Amin were equal." >> >>http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk11132004.html > >-- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:24:14 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: OKHO/window MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know I that I that I know that I that I that I that I know what I that I what I? what I is that I is that I I know just so, like that Apology, the one that's Philosophy keep s talking you know, now, how did it happen in English that no and know sound so, the same now only that Hegel, my Negation no now know / know now no nyet tepyer ZHATb/ts'not [it's not - American English] where is my transliterated Khlebnikov once printed by Ardis? "from the window our streets" ['from the grandmothers on the behalf of or speaking to/towards Esther' - Russakova 1909-1943] from the window my street: no know now ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:17:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: fw: ELEVEN ELEVEN {1111} CALL FOR SUBMISSION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit - ELEVEN ELEVEN {1111} CALL FOR SUBMISSION Eleven Eleven {1111}, the new journal of literature and art based at California College of the Arts, seeks poetry, fiction, non-fiction, visual criticism and visual art for its Spring 2005 issue. Eleven Eleven {1111} is a forum for writers and artists to risk, experiment and find answers for and from their contemporaries. We welcome works with vision and insight, and we are dedicated to creating a journal that serves as an exchange between writers and artists. Guidelines for writers: Please limit your submissions to 6000 words of hard copy. Poets should fulfill this requirement by limiting your submissions to five poems or five pages of hard copy. Do not include your name on any page of the manuscript. Guidelines for visual artists: Please limit your submissions to five slides or hard copies. Label each with the name of the work but do not include your name. Please also submit a brief artist's statement. Submissions must be postmarked no later than December 31, 2004. Materials sent with a SASE will be returned. Please send your submissions via mail to: Eleven Eleven {1111} California College of the Arts 1111 Eighth Street San Francisco, CA 94107 Questions can be directed to eleveneleven@cca.edu. Eleven Eleven {1111} is published annually by the MFA in Writing Program at California College of the Arts. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:39:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Linguistics... Comments: To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com In-Reply-To: <16528204.1102490463851.JavaMail.root@wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii this I do not believe. and usually it is meant to delegitimate social justice sympathizers (I so remember Dickens' plangent portrait of the bourgeois femme who feels for Africans but not her children). and yet Jesse Helms, he who hated many in general (including Carolina students en masse) was said to be a charming and cordial man in person who adopted handicapped kids and came out for the rights of the "disabled." Robert Harry Nudel wrote: it's not so much anti-semitism tho it is anti-semitism............ those who love in general hate in the particular... dr sherlock=frued..n... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:09:37 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: French Terror Level MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT French Terror Level The terror level index rose, France announced today, >From "Run" to "Hide". The index goes Up further, spokesmen say, The third, and next, one is "Surrender", And then the final state Of being for a French defender Is "Collaborate". ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:13:26 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: everyday people Comments: To: derekr@DEREKROGERSON.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/08/04 1:18:04 AM, derekr@DEREKROGERSON.COM writes: > I am not a Jewish historian, nor do I study Jewish > culture or Jewish politics etc. *(this thread has been a lesson) -- to > me Jewish people 'adhere to Judaism as a religion or culture and/or > identify themselves as Hebrew' and that is not a racial slur that's like > Hindu, Christian, etc.. so I don't know what hell you saying because it > really is conflated, > Derek, I thought you were considering yourself a Jewish/Israeli historian and seem to be very proud of it. The history of Jews goes over two thousand years, and Israel exists since 1948. How are they exactly the same? Murat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:44:42 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >From Derek Rogerson: > "11. Can we *finally* acknowledge that there is no Christian > magic-spell controlling the populace and Bush doesn't have 'God' > whispering commandments in-his-ear? That's what this is all about > isn't it?" Well, Bush *claims* he has God giving him commandments through his gut. One might wish that Bush were getting commandments in words rather than in gut feelings, I suppose -- they might be clearer. Then again, perhaps we might find we should have been grateful that they were not clearer. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:29:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: French Terror Level Comments: To: marcus@designerglass.com In-Reply-To: <41B70B21.11687.629969@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 8-Dec-04, at 11:09 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > French Terror Level > > The terror level index rose, > France announced today, >> From "Run" to "Hide". The index goes > Up further, spokesmen say, > > The third, and next, one is "Surrender", > And then the final state > Of being for a French defender > Is "Collaborate". > > Yeah? Well, they won your so-called "Revolutionary" war for you. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:40:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: French Terror Level MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Germans would have destroyed Paris if the French hadn't surrendered, and Paris is an idea that belongs to us all. So we should be thankful that the French were civilized, and they did put together an amazing underground of resistance that helped defeat the Nazis. While the Germans, whose ethos was, "Stay the Course," watched their cities being fire-bombed. Long Live Paris, the City of Light! -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 12:29 PM Subject: Re: French Terror Level > On 8-Dec-04, at 11:09 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > > > French Terror Level > > > > The terror level index rose, > > France announced today, > >> From "Run" to "Hide". The index goes > > Up further, spokesmen say, > > > > The third, and next, one is "Surrender", > > And then the final state > > Of being for a French defender > > Is "Collaborate". > > > > > Yeah? Well, they won your so-called > "Revolutionary" war for you. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 16:10:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: French Terror Level Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Are we in the midst of a hate parade? Not to speak of how stupid this is. You retail an entrenched attitude--you might want to do some reading. Lots of French collaborated, but on the other hand 100,000 French troops died in the brief time before the surrender, with no end in sight given the strategic situation, and 250,000 members of the resistance bought it in subsequent years. The US lost altogether 250,000 in all theaters from a population three times as large. This doesn't count civilian casualties, of which the US had almost none. The French sustained something like 3 million deaths in WWI. This might have had something to do with their diminished eagerness to die in a hopeless fight. The occupied country with by far the greatest percentage of collaborators was the Netherlands, to which we tend to be more generous. Mark At 02:09 PM 12/8/2004, you wrote: >French Terror Level > >The terror level index rose, >France announced today, > >From "Run" to "Hide". The index goes >Up further, spokesmen say, > >The third, and next, one is "Surrender", >And then the final state >Of being for a French defender >Is "Collaborate". ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 16:23:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: invitation to a blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'm writing to invite you to visit my new blog at http://pornfeld.blogspot.com I'll post a couple times a week. I'm starting with a poem. By next month will build links pages. I hope you will check it out. Best regards, Michael Hoerman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:01:55 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: generalities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit suck sewage (metaphor) only individuals live, not history, not societies (reality) if the herd didn't leave droppings we wouldn't even know they were there (reality) attitudes and discrimination are person to person (reality) the erudite aren't real (metaphor) racists and elitists hurt real people (reality) reality etc. etc. generalities aren't real we should only speak about what we know ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 23:02:42 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: 350 Years of American Jewry, 1654-2004 In-Reply-To: <9C63A4713C4E3342B90428CE44806A730CE6BC@PHSXMB5.partners.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From: "Cornelia Wilhelm" >Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:25:30 +0100 350 Years of American Jewry, 1654-2004: Transcending the European Experience? International Scholarly Conference at the Akademie f=FCr Politische Bildung, Tutzing, in cooperation with Ludwig-Maximilians-University of Munich and the University of Erfurt. Registration: Akademie f=FCr Politische Bildung Tutzing, Buchensee 1, 82327= =20 Tutzing, Tel. 08158/256-0; Fax: 08158/256-14+15,=20 http://www.apb-tutzing.de Fee (accommodation and meals, 4 days): ? 110.- The Conference: The main theme of the conference will revolve around the question: Did=20 America keep the promise it originally made to Jewish immigration from=20 Europe, and if so - how was the American Jewish Experience different -=20 where in particular was it able to transcend the limits of the European=20 experience? Trying to focus on this question, we hope to create a new trans-national=20 perspective on Jewish history which is largely missing from American=20 History as well as from Jewish Studies. Such an approach will also help us= =20 to move beyond the narrow boundaries of Ethnic History and integrate Jewish= =20 History into the larger narrative of Jewish-non-Jewish relations in various= =20 societies. Organizers: PD Dr. Cornelia Wilhelm (Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit=E4t M=FCnchen) und Dr. Christian Wiese (Universit=E4t Erfurt/Trinity College Dublin), Akademie f=FCr Politische Bildung, Tutzing. Date: 23.-26. May, 2005 Place: Akademie f=FCr politische Bildung, Tutzing bei M=FCnchen (Co-organiz= er). Monday, May 23, 2005 Welcome and Opening Remarks, 14h: Prof. Dr. H. Oberreuter, Akademie f=FCr Politische Bildung, Tutzing Cornelia Wilhelm (Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit=E4t M=FCnchen) Christian Wiese (Universit=E4t Erfurt) Keynote address Finding a New Zion in America? Religion, Ethnicity and Interfaith Relations in the United States of America and Europe, 1654-2003 (Hasia Diner, New York University) COFFEE BREAK Afternoon Session, 16-18h: Colonial Identities Seeking Religious Tolerance as Agents of Colonial Enterprise: The Sephardic Community in Colonial America Judah M. Cohen (New York University, New York City) Religion and National Independence: Religion and Civic Identity - American Jews and the First Modern Nation (Eli Faber, John Jay College of Criminal Justice, New York City) Chair: Winfried Schulze (Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit=E4t M=FCnchen) DINNER Evening Lecture, 20h: The Emergence of an American Judaism I From One Judaism to Many: Embryonic Development of a Modern Pluralistic Judaism in Nineteenth Century America Dana Kaplan (University of Missouri, Kansas City, KA) Tuesday, May 24, 2005 Morning Session, 9h-1230h: The Emergence of an American Judaism II Beyond the Synagogue Gallery: America Paves the Way for Jewish Women (Karla Goldman, American-Jewish Women's Archives, Boston, MA) An Old Battle and the Prospects of Peace : Jewish-Christian Relationship in Nineteenth Century America (Yaakov Ariel, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC) COFFEE BREAK From Aryan and Semite to Black and White: Jewish Racial Identity in German and American Contexts (Eric Goldstein, Emory University, Atlanta, GA) German Jews and the Civic Culture of Nineteenth-Century America Cathleen Conzen, University of Chicago Chair: Prof. Dr. Michael A. Meyer (Hebrew Union College Cincinnati, OH) LUNCH Afternoon Session, 1330h-18h: New Immigration and New Challenges America's Promise as a Place of Jewish Scholarship and Learning? - Transatlantic Positions, Debates and Hopes, 1850-1930 (Christian Wiese, Universit=E4t Erfurt) The Synagogue-Center Experiment in America, 1890-1920: Building Jewish Community in the Open Society David Kaufman (Hebrew Union College, Los Angeles, CA) Exporting Socialism: The Influence of American Jewish Radicals on Russian Jews? (Tony Michels, University of Wisconsin Madison, WI) COFFEE BREAK American Zionism in the Promised Land (Arthur Goren, Columbia University, NY) Is there a 'new' Anti-semitism in the United States? (Leonhard Dinnerstein, University of Arizona, Tuscon, AZ) Chair: Jacques Picard (Institut f=FCr J=FCdische Studien, Universit=E4t Bas= el, CH) DINNER Wednesday, May 25, 2004 Morning Session, 9h - 1230h: From Holocaust to Cold War The World Jewish Congress and America's Response to Nazism (Mark Raider, State University of New York, Albany, NY) German Refugee Rabbis and the American Civil Rights Movement (Cornelia Wilhelm, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit=E4t M=FCnchen) COFFEE BREAK American - Jewish Culture? (Stephen Whitfield, Brandeis University, Waltham, MA) American Jews and the Middle East Crisis (Michael Staub, Bowling Green University, Bowling Green, OH) Chair: Anthony Kauders (Universit=E4t M=FCnchen) LUNCH Afternoon Session, 15h - 18h: Taking on a New Role? American Responses to the Holocaust (Jeffrey Shandler, Rutgers University, Camden, NJ) Resisters and Accommodators Revisited: Reflections on the study of Orthodoxy in America (Jeffrey Gurock, Yeshiva University, New York City) COFFEE BREAK Russian-Jewish Immigrants in Europe and the USA: Enclaves or Trans-national Communities? (Willi Jasper, Universit=E4t Potsdam) Jewish History for the 21st Century: A New Master Narrative? Michael Brenner (Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit=E4t M=FCnchen) Chair: Michael Brocke (S.-Steinheim-Institut, Universit=E4t Duisburg/D=FCss= eldorf) DINNER Evening Lecture, 20h: From Periphery to Centre: American Jewry and Jewish History after the=20 Holocaust (Jonathan Sarna, Brandeis University, Waltham, MA) Thursday, May 26, 2005 Conclusion and Outlook - Roundtable Discussion, 10h -12h: American Jewry and American Politics: Less Can Be More. (Henry Feingold, Baruch College, New York City) Transcending the European Experience? A Reappraisal of America's Promise after 350 Years Moderation: Andreas Gotzmann (Universit=E4t Erfurt) Jonathan Sarna (Brandeis University, Waltham, MA) Dan Diner (Simon-Dubnow-Institut and Universit=E4t Leipzig) Berndt Ostendorf (Amerika-Institut, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit=E4t M=FCnc= hen) Henry Feingold (Baruch College, New York City) LUNCH DEPARTURE ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:07:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: New 5cense Reviews and SleepingFish update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've just posted some new "reviews" on my bloggy 5cense reviews site (www.5cense.com), including a southwest travel journal with pictures of Native American Graffiti/Petroglyphs (http://sleepingfish.net/5cense/SW/SW3_Native_American_Graffiti.htm) and reviews of the new Tom Waits and Nick Cave albums (http://sleepingfish.net/5cense/SW/SW2_Roadtrip_Music.htm). I welcome contributions of a more literary or poetic nature, so if you have something to review in an unconventional, "sensory" and intentionally subjective way, now is your chance. If you have any new books or magazines that you want reviewed in this light, email me directly. I will also be posting guidelines for the next SleepingFish (issue 0.75) soon, so stay tuned. Thanks, Derek White white@sleepingfish.net www.calamaripress.com www.sleepingfish.net www.5cense.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:08:07 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000201c4dced$a5c41ef0$93e33c45@satellite> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 8/12/04 5:17 PM, "derekrogerson" wrote: > And if there is a problem, the problem can be nicely approached and > calmly explained without every Jew/Israeli (you know who I mean, that > cultural group of people on this list) going ape-shit and throwing all > kinds of hate-filled ad hominem crap in my direction > 9. Whatever problem people have with the Jew/Israeli terminology are > problems they carry around themselves. Don't blame me if you have > special meaning for some words I couldn't possibly have known being > outside the group, I am not a Jewish historian, nor do I study Jewish > culture or Jewish politics etc. I'm not Jewish. Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:12:21 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: generalities In-Reply-To: <190.34b0fe25.2ee8d3d3@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 9/12/04 9:01 AM, "Mary Jo Malo" wrote: > we should only speak about what we know How do we know what we know? When I write I often find out that I know things that I didn't know I knew. Best A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:19:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: generalities In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > On 9/12/04 9:01 AM, "Mary Jo Malo" wrote: > >> we should only speak about what we know > > How do we know what we know? When I write I often find out that I know > things that I didn't know I knew. Indeed, and when I read I often find I don't know things that I thought I did. Yours, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:26:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: generalities In-Reply-To: <4509.172.166.118.40.1102544371.squirrel@webmail.safepages.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I suspect the occupational problem for many of us is not the writing - and what is learned in the process - but when to know it's time to shut up! What are they called, "pregnant silences." ? The reader as "midwife." Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com >> On 9/12/04 9:01 AM, "Mary Jo Malo" wrote: >> >>> we should only speak about what we know >> >> How do we know what we know? When I write I often find out that I know >> things that I didn't know I knew. > > Indeed, and when I read I often find I don't know things that I thought I > did. > > Yours, > -- > Jonathan Penton > http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:38:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <20041208130105.QFQK1365.out004.verizon.net@YOUR6DDD04B03A> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Look it Richard: have not used any words with any intention to inflict hate or incite maliciousness or any anything resembling anything like that. I have even apologized for saying something you have taken completely the wrong way. I'm sorry you have this mental baggage, I'm sorry that you insist on trying to make me carry it also, but listen -- I have no interest in carrying it. If you don't like to be called Jewish when that is the only word I have available to me to describe your ethnicity then either I have to shut up and be coerced to silence and give you free-reign to do whatever you like because you are 'above reproach and discussion' or I can claim my own independence to speak freely and civilly. Stop telling me what I can and can not speak within the scope of polite discussion and **stop attributing negative racial intention to my words** -- all these things are things *you* are doing and have nothing to do with me. Get a grip on life! I don't hold enmity towards any racial, cultural, or religious group and I never will. If you have to unjustly call me anti-semitic because that's what you believe then you are just a malicious idiot. But I'm starting very much to form a dislike for this line of interrogation. You are acting like a person who believes they are above every other person like they have been chosen as superior to all others -- a spoiled brat. Try respecting everyone as equals (not as people beneath you) and stop 'correcting' people and believing everyone needs to be 'put in their place'. If you want to correct a fact, correct it -- but you are not trying to correct facts you are trying to put me into cultural submission. I will make up my own mind about things, thank you, and I will not alter myself, even under threat of force, to accommodate your political and/or cultural beliefs. A statement is effectively anti-semitic only if there is, somewhere, an intention to use it for anti-semitic purposes -- not if Richard or Alan or Mark from their high-altar proclaim it is anti-semitic. There is no anti-semitic intention to my words and I don't appreciate your undying efforts to attribute racial hate to them (even you must get everyone in the land to come onlist and make that assertion there is still no intention). Stop trying to neuter me. Stop trying to circumcise my mind. You have a real mental problem and I don't want to have anything to do with it. -- leave me alone you thought-police freaks, Derek Murat wrote: ..| I thought you were considering yourself ..| a Jewish/Israeli historian and seem ..| to be very proud of it Why why why would you ever think I considered myself Jewish/Israeli historian and even more to be very proud of anything?? I can't stand it. Where is this misinformation coming from? Where have I given any indication of this? 1948 is so many decades before I was even born! ugh! Being called an upstart is even more distressing to me than being called anti-semitic. People need to immediately remove me as a subject for their discussions and stop using me as a metaphor in their writings. Please. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:38:16 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000201c4dced$a5c41ef0$93e33c45@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Derek- You seem mighty sure of your opinion for someone who's displaying a great degree of cultural ignorance. You really don't have to be a Jewish historian to realize that Jew & Israeli are not interchangeable terms. But cultural ignorance does not necessarily make you a monster, & it can be a temporary condition. Let me hip you to "The Other Israel: Voices of Refusal and Dissent" edited by Roane Carey (The New Press 2002). You'll find the writings of Israeli Jewish writers, reservists, activists & former government officials courageously resisting their government's unjust actions against Palestinians. "All poets are Jews." - Paul Celan Frank Sherlock >From: derekrogerson >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: everyday people >Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 01:17:46 -0500 > > >Richard et al, > >1. I was not aware the word 'Jew' was a dirty word -- I only used it to >indicate Jewish people (see http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jew >for my usage) >2. I was not aware of a difference between 'those Jews' and 'other Jews' >when I made my post >3. Everyone is reading a great deal more into what I have happened to >say as an aside to demonstrate 'divine inspiration' than what I was >clearly intending. Given recent events it is clear to me that >Jews/Israelis appear to carry around a tremendous amount of baggage >attached to their ethnicity and the word(s) used to describe it -- and I >don't want to get involved with this stuff (you call yourselves Jews so >I call you the same, like Hilton said) >4. The Jew/Israeli distinction is confusion -- but regardless how >conflated those words are I still had Jews/Israelis attacking me on this >list for no reason I could fathom and I don't like it >5. The violent land-grab that is going on in Israel *is undisputedly* >religiously motivated and should be subject to a great deal of scrutiny. >6. I don't hate anybody, especially Jews, especially anybody >7. It is not unreasonable to indicate that Jews/Israelis (whomever you >want to call this group, you know who I mean -- the people who are >performing these actions), even just some of them, are bulldozing >Palestinian homes and maiming and torturing and killing Palestinians >expressly because of a divine commandment from God (what Joel might call >'divine inspiration') -- so what's the problem with my indication, >especially just to demonstrate 'divine inspiration'? >8. And if there is a problem, the problem can be nicely approached and >calmly explained without every Jew/Israeli (you know who I mean, that >cultural group of people on this list) going ape-shit and throwing all >kinds of hate-filled ad hominem crap in my direction >9. Whatever problem people have with the Jew/Israeli terminology are >problems they carry around themselves. Don't blame me if you have >special meaning for some words I couldn't possibly have known being >outside the group, I am not a Jewish historian, nor do I study Jewish >culture or Jewish politics etc. *(this thread has been a lesson) -- to >me Jewish people 'adhere to Judaism as a religion or culture and/or >identify themselves as Hebrew' and that is not a racial slur that's like >Hindu, Christian, etc.. so I don't know what hell you saying because it >really is conflated, I don't see how an Israeli is not a Jew and I don't >see why anyone would read all kinds of terrible meaning into what I said >other than to use it as cheap fodder to smear my character because they >yearned to do so before anything was said at all >10. I continue to not appreciate people assigning and ascribing >particular religious faiths or beliefs to myself and/or assuming what I >believe religiously -- and I certainly don't appreciate this childish >martyr-mocking bullshit either >11. Can we *finally* acknowledge that there is no Christian magic-spell >controlling the populace and Bush doesn't have 'God' whispering >commandments in-his-ear? That's what this is all about isn't it? > >Adios, Derek > _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:59:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Stephen Baraban Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000c01c4dd76$a0462ed0$93e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Circumcise? Very interesting. Stop trying to neuter > me. Stop trying to > circumcise my mind. You have a real mental problem > and I don't want to > have anything to do with it. > > -- leave me alone you thought-police freaks, > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 18:02:20 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: everyday people Comments: To: derekr@DEREKROGERSON.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 12/08/04 5:38:55 PM, derekr@DEREKROGERSON.COM writes: > Stop trying to > circumcise my mind. You have a real mental problem and I don't want to > have anything to do with it. >=20 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -- leave me alone you thought-police freaks, Derek >=20 >=20 > Murat wrote: > ..|=A0 I thought you were considering yourself > ..|=A0 a Jewish/Israeli historian and seem > ..|=A0 to be very proud of it >=20 > Why why why would you ever think I considered myself Jewish/Israeli > historian and even more to be very proud of anything?? I can't stand it. > Where is this misinformation coming from? Where have I given any > indication of this? 1948 is so many decades before I was even born! >=20 >=20 I just circumcized it from what you wrote on this list. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 23:32:22 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: everyday people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Frank Sherlock" : > You [Derek] seem mighty sure of your opinion for someone who's displaying a great > degree of cultural ignorance. You really don't have to be a Jewish historian > to realize that Jew & Israeli are not interchangeable terms. This may be slightly off-the-point, given the amount of more-heatedness-than-light generated by this particular discussion, but am I the only person who's bothered by the conflation of "Jew" and "Jewish" (before we even get to Israel)? It seems to me (non-Jew[ish]) that "Jew" is a racial signifier that can (all too often, sometimes unintentionally) elide into anti-semitism, while "Jewish" is a cultural signifier that embraces ever-so-many things ... I find myself reluctant to use the term "Jew", in exactly the same way I'd be reluctant to use the term "nigger". There's a hell of a lot of previous around both terms ... Robin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 16:50:10 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000c01c4dd76$a0462ed0$93e33c45@satellite> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "Very smart of Israel to carry the war right into the heart of vocabulary..." --Jean Genet http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/27773.php http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/647/bo1.htm derekrogerson wrote: >Look it Richard: have not used any words with any intention to inflict >hate or incite maliciousness or any anything resembling anything like >that. I have even apologized for saying something you have taken >completely the wrong way. I'm sorry you have this mental baggage, I'm >sorry that you insist on trying to make me carry it also, but listen -- >I have no interest in carrying it. If you don't like to be called Jewish >when that is the only word I have available to me to describe your >ethnicity then either I have to shut up and be coerced to silence and >give you free-reign to do whatever you like because you are 'above >reproach and discussion' or I can claim my own independence to speak >freely and civilly. Stop telling me what I can and can not speak within >the scope of polite discussion and **stop attributing negative racial >intention to my words** -- all these things are things *you* are doing >and have nothing to do with me. Get a grip on life! > >I don't hold enmity towards any racial, cultural, or religious group and >I never will. > >If you have to unjustly call me anti-semitic because that's what you >believe then you are just a malicious idiot. But I'm starting very much >to form a dislike for this line of interrogation. You are acting like a >person who believes they are above every other person like they have >been chosen as superior to all others -- a spoiled brat. Try respecting >everyone as equals (not as people beneath you) and stop 'correcting' >people and believing everyone needs to be 'put in their place'. If you >want to correct a fact, correct it -- but you are not trying to correct >facts you are trying to put me into cultural submission. I will make up >my own mind about things, thank you, and I will not alter myself, even >under threat of force, to accommodate your political and/or cultural >beliefs. A statement is effectively anti-semitic only if there is, >somewhere, an intention to use it for anti-semitic purposes -- not if >Richard or Alan or Mark from their high-altar proclaim it is >anti-semitic. There is no anti-semitic intention to my words and I don't >appreciate your undying efforts to attribute racial hate to them (even >you must get everyone in the land to come onlist and make that assertion >there is still no intention). Stop trying to neuter me. Stop trying to >circumcise my mind. You have a real mental problem and I don't want to >have anything to do with it. > > -- leave me alone you thought-police freaks, Derek > > >Murat wrote: >..| I thought you were considering yourself >..| a Jewish/Israeli historian and seem >..| to be very proud of it > >Why why why would you ever think I considered myself Jewish/Israeli >historian and even more to be very proud of anything?? I can't stand it. >Where is this misinformation coming from? Where have I given any >indication of this? 1948 is so many decades before I was even born! > >ugh! Being called an upstart is even more distressing to me than being >called anti-semitic. People need to immediately remove me as a subject >for their discussions and stop using me as a metaphor in their writings. >Please. > > > > -- {\rtf1\mac\ansicpg10000\cocoartf102 {\fonttbl\f0\fswiss\fcharset77 Helvetica;} {\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;} \margl1440\margr1440\vieww9000\viewh9000\viewkind0 \pard\tx560\tx1120\tx1680\tx2240\tx2800\tx3360\tx3920\tx4480\tx5040\tx5600\tx6160\tx6720\ql\qnatural \f0\fs24 \cf0 \ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:13:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: i Will Hold You HoSTaGe aNd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed i Will Hold You HoSTaGe aNd aM iNdulGeNCe THiS HuMBlY aM GeorGe iNdulGeNCe doSe ,iF HuMBlY iNdulGeNCe WiTH aNd THe CraVe iN WiTH iN eTHiCS THe THiS WiTH You Be eTHiCS doSe Your MaY FroM To eTHiCS aNd MaY do NoT To iN MaY NoT GeorGe KNoW reCeiVe SurPriSed NoT WiTH WiTH KNoW FaVour THaT THe To THe FaVour You THe THe uNderGrouNd FaVour THe ForWard aPPliCaTioN deCeaSe To THe For For aPPliCaTioN THaT THe To aPProVal THeY TeST aPPliCaTioN To To KiNd THeY ForWard Your a iS iN FaCT a MaN a CouPled THaT To KNoW NoT SurPriSed adVaNCe To Me aKiN. NoT To reCeiVe PerSoNallY urGeNT THiS aS Me oH PleaSe AEIOUJLDR aeioujldr oH PleaSe _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 18:47:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: The Book of Brueckl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Book of Brueckl Part 1 Based on the rapturous visions of Bob Brueckl (From "The Highland Testament") Moral joy suddenly humming: grammar's feelings clenched emptiness: if ideation-yawpers, in the sneer of death speckled and figural: in denial, induced stares lightening desire: pentagonal tongue collapsing: useless spores of lightness gawking: they came with the tedious absence of sunlight peeping into the estrangement of tangled flaws' germination drainage, corpses of night transcend the impure sounds: undefiled under collapsed sentences, bruised flank of vaporous consternation in banished palms: not alone, pretty soon, reopened voices' fir in the wretchedness of metonymics' magnetic alacrities attributed to be: jackal of Jesse, gradual green atrocities sharply melting madrigals: flames of thorns, hours out of earshot, unanimous sacs unthought, appositely ecstatic lips never being construed as you can be: not at all: it is to see the felt dots pretending forehead waves, grandeur of foraging backwards: unapproachable crack: fluency of caresses: madrigal extrapolated, uttered, undefiled: devised joy: heartbeat, glory teeth: unpleasantly upside down pleasure, tumbling mica's recalcitrant impunity, never losing their impotence in the spacious factory, in adoration, coming apart against haughty crawling words' bosoms' bones, diminishing gradually diminished: ah, wounds glowing, as it could be not there: pressed sounds eventual apotheosis, no difference, creeping, rock chatter: not that it is as it is disturbed, retracted, tainted, inversely multicolored, exposed: a gaggle of a pale footnote to be, wrath of wave-pierced illusions: technical squiggles, open-mouthed wherewithal: dosages of blushing revenge fawning: another subject, mine too, debilitated: intense sheer lines leap: wrinkled mechanisms attaching themselves to be opposed to and breadth of a gaggle of night transcend the machinery of radioactive words of lightness gawking: they came with an apparent interruption, leaning on the scented niche: identical: it is to oblivion's abandoned faucet: immense, whenever it is as it is: no particular cancerous notations: perversely nondescript: subordinate notes colliding, indisputable sticks vibrating along the curving seizure of mirrors, the throbbing disturbances of the diminished bosom, spirals' pangs, listening seeds: dead wood wholly saturated on a gaggle of night's thirst, thick conduits in collusion with kisses: sullen seascape, sunrise from the apotheosis of the luggage of treetops: density easily knows the root of trickling sludge, starlight's instants in the audacity of trickling sludge, starlight's instants in derision: Not even differentiated hyacinths' diminished bosom, airy pangs of treetops: density easily knows the corrosive hours, brittle pretexts bickering: I, too, dislike Satan's semen: blushing shoals leaning on the ailanthus: suddenly swerving to the throbbing twigs swaying above the periphery of abating mud: perpendicular, disjunction flesh: they were coming from the impure identity of lovers' dawns, malignant sky of lightness gawking: they know peeling window panes, starlights' mnemonic blooms: the unreal: outside, the reluctance of impure sounds: undefiled under the apotheosis of subsumed parameters squandered, coded inanity: snapshot prop spiraling a lethal mildness, light grey, rubbed raw: merciless abruptness sharpens the instant is to and breadth of monotony swells like vocabulary, coalesced turd colorings signature: voiceless sap dust oozing indistinctly, and breadth of a paler typo: copious dosages, rectangular soil is it is: no particular cancerous notations: perversely nondescript: subordinate notes colliding, indisputable sticks vibrating along the vehicle of gold-fringed blossoms are undefiled under collapsed sentences, bruised flank of the breath of wet light: shrinking subterfuge, leaping off branches of evergreens' swollen clutter, inert nouns dazed: waking pod, mired cortex: I desire an agitated piece of tormented moments, assays enemas' commas obtruding on the invisible scent of differences between repeated wastes cleaving apart, all in all: it can be not that reeks of the enduring insertion of morning's bedewed pistache, nestled pallor, compressed circumstances in spits presence: never: I desire an empty pyx: nobody divided the rim of earshot, unanimous sacs unthought, appositely ecstatic lips never being construed as the wane, plaiting, lapsed: delicate illusions rearranged, maybe oblique ambiance swooning, low dosages of gold-fringed blossoms are divided apostrophes' warped gumptions, verbless marblings visceral gliding, barely a sacred reaction to afflictions of trickling sludge, starlight's instants in collusion with kisses: sullen seascape, sunrise from not only accruing the hysterical bulges dripping precisely giddy rivulets drained out of beauty retracted, tainted, inversely multicolored, exposed: a hastily sullen seascape, sunrise from not be nearly often limpid, very lonely: cursive stuff enters swooning lichen bone, inaudible dilemma attributed to and perpendicular bosom, spirals' pangs, listening seeds: dead ache seen as the wooden bone of subsumed parameters squandered, coded inanity: snapshot prop spiraling a hastily sullen diamonds winking, smeared spatters renamed light grey, rubbed raw: merciless abruptness sharpens the reluctance of impure identity of intimidated puddles inseminated with kisses: sullen diamonds winking, smeared spatters renamed light grey, rubbed raw: merciless abruptness sharpens the shore of evergreens' swollen clutter, inert nouns dazed: waking pod, mired cortex: I desire an agitated piece of breath of metonymics' magnetic alacrities attributed to be severed, no one can know: underneath, gazing undone, ecstatic lips never being cautiously questioned, quietly winking auscultation: salubrious bib of shrunken tenses, betrayed handwriting of wave-pierced illusions: technical squiggles, open-mouthed wherewithal: dosages of memory's hole: frosted glass breath trajectories hardened particularly startled declensions in strung-out mists' cawing daisies, excavated from not you can never being construed as it is it was to the curving seizure of the bubbled lair: undone: woke up: startlingly electric blue sky: tattered breath fiercely glimpsed, displaced not there: pressed sounds eventual apotheosis, no one can you in the lonely cadence of holiness, the moment outside light's thicket, perfectly arduous and prolonged, a conjugation weaning labyrinth aloud: out of earshot, unanimous sacs unthought, appositely ecstatic perdure: postulated loss changed, undecoded fingernails' ashes, colorless etching of love: felt odor's chilly omission, very nearly this be nearly being there: pressed sounds eventual apotheosis, no difference, creeping, rock chatter: not that it feels dusk in the damp antennae eluding the tedious absence of a bride's hourglass: disjointed autumn's sticky colors, precisely quiet, soiled blond ink: Hole artifice, reassembled heads circulating around ruptured acolytes milking arpeggios, barely a lethal mildness, light sign of the lonely cadence of a meatless sap, acid clot: dazed curve glazed, ambiguously dazzling nerve's spume: aspirated chaos, grammatically eaten carcass of the footstools of dispossessed occurrences, shrivelling shaft of the footstools of Jesse, gradual green atrocities sharply melting madrigals: flames coinciding around ruptured acolytes milking arpeggios, barely dusk in banished palms: not there: pressed sounds eventual apotheosis, no chance of the wake of dispossessed occurrences, shrivelling shaft of intimidated puddles inseminated with an empty pyx: nobody divided apostrophes' warped gumptions, verbless marblings visceral gliding, barely dusk belittles the quarry of death speckled and perpendicular bosom, spirals' pangs, listening seeds: dead wood wholly saturated on the molecular idleness of intimidated puddles inseminated with the wane, plaiting, lapsed: delicate illusions rearranged, maybe oblique ambiance swooning, low in a jagged meadow thirsting for confetti, the moonlight when they feel anxious, unread, the text, the hysterical bulges dripping precisely quiet, soiled blond ink: Hole artifice, --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 18:40:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <010601c4dd7e$2c1555b0$db8f9a51@Robin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > This may be slightly off-the-point, given the amount of > more-heatedness-than-light generated by this particular discussion, but am > I > the only person who's bothered by the conflation of "Jew" and "Jewish" > (before we even get to Israel)? > > It seems to me (non-Jew[ish]) that "Jew" is a racial signifier that can > (all > too often, sometimes unintentionally) elide into anti-semitism, while > "Jewish" is a cultural signifier that embraces ever-so-many things ... > > I find myself reluctant to use the term "Jew", in exactly the same way I'd > be reluctant to use the term "nigger". > > There's a hell of a lot of previous around both terms ... > > Robin Hi Robin, "White," "black," and "Indian" also have a hell of a lot of previous, and most Americans don't find them at all offensive. I am a Jew, and Jew is my racial indicator. It's pretty clear, as soon as a racial indicator leaves someone's lips and/or fingers, how they mean it, be it "Jew" or "African-American." I grew up in Atlanta, and I would be loathe to place the word "Jew" anywhere near the same catagory as "nigger." -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:46:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: How The Empyrean Brutely Computes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed clover bullet, clay bullet, what best spins your silver fuss, moon- light's thick purr? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:47:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Ghost Of This Shepherd, Renouncing Lambs, Can Be Used As A Table Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I used for my offended magpies everything previously relied upon when we, us, ourselves reach for driving the offended magpies -- to drive offended magpies there first to stop, finally you called winner that is amount, that magpie is quick the rest are offended was said to me straightly as that story wanted back and forth our magpies will not provide myself with numbers said to raise the curtain on we with others pulling thorns to keep balance sometimes undersides near wolves ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:33:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Fwd: Boog City 21 Now Available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii David, How does in one Seattle (which is doing it's damnedest to feel like New York, weatherwise) get copies of Boog City? Robert Robert Corbett wrote: Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:01:46 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Corbett Subject: Fwd: Boog City 21 Now Available To: Robert Corbett "David A. Kirschenbaum" wrote: Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:13:58 -0500 From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 21 Now Available To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Please forward --------------- Boog City 21, December 2004 Available featuring: Columnist Tom Gogola documents his trouble with commuter rail cellphoners East Village editor Paulette Powell's beat report on comic book artist Arthur Suydam Our Printed Matter section, edited by Joanna Sondheim, featuring reviews by: --Katie Peterson on Eleni Sikelianos' The California Poem --Joy Surles on Gloria Feldt's Exporting Extremism: How Anti-Choice Policies Threaten Women's Lives Around the World Music editor Jon Berger on --The Dream Bitches, The Jeffrey Lewis Band, and Carter Tanton playing to help save Bronx community center Casa Del Sol from closure --Shift, the new release from Just Jill Our Poetry section, now edited by Dana Ward, features work from: --Tanya Brolaski --Jordan Davis --Stacy Szymaszek Art editor Brenda Iijima brings us work from artist Ricardo Mbarak of France and Lebanon A comic from Lee Harvey and The December installment of the NYC Poetry Calendar, now under Boog management. The calendar lists every reader at every reading in the five boroughs, thanks to the assistance of Jackie Sheeler of www.poetz.com, who generously shares her information with us, and Bob Holman and the Bowery Poetry Club for sponsoring it. And huge kudos go out to poetry calendar editor Tara Lambeth for compiling the data for the calendar. ----- Please patronize our advertisers: Bowery Poetry Club * www.bowerypoetry.com Talk Engine * www.talkengine.net Poets for Peace * www.poetsagainstthewar.org ----- Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-2664 ----- You can pick up Boog City for free at the following locations: East Village Acme Bar and Grill alt.coffee Angelika Film Center and Café Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings Bowery Poetry Club Cafe Pick Me Up CBGB's CB's 313 Gallery C-Note Continental Lakeside Lounge Life Cafe The Living Room Mission Cafe Nuyorican Poets Café Pianos The Pink Pony Shakespeare & Co. St. Mark's Books St. Mark's Church Sunshine Theater Tonic Tower Video Trash and Vaudeville Other parts of Manhattan Hotel Chelsea Poets House in Williamsburg Bliss Cafe Clovis Press Earwax Galapagos Northsix Sideshow Gallery Spoonbill & Sugartown Supercore Cafe -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:07:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Jackson Mac Low Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Anne Tardos has just written that Jackson Mac Low died this morning. It seemed to me immediately that this was of great public consequence, and personal sadness. This was her message: Dear Friends, We are sad to announce that Jackson Mac Low died this morning at 11:30 a.m. at Cabrini hospital in New York from complications after a stroke he suffered on November 4th. He was 82. There will be no funeral, but he will be buried at Cedar Park Cemetery in Oradell, NJ. A memorial will be held in the future. Anne Tardos Mordecai-Mark Mac Low Clarinda Mac Low ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:41:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Jackson Mac Low (1922-2004) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Jackson Mac Low a signal force in 20th century poetry died this morning * Let me choose the kinds of light to light the passing of my friend ..... [the] black light of absence ... revelatory light that is no light the unending light of the realization that no light will ever light your bodily presence again Now your poems' light is all The unending light of your presence in the living light of your voice (from 32nd Light Poem for Paul Blackburn) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 16:45:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Fwd: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The last hope of the British in North America was at Yorktown, Virginia in 1781. But they faced a French naval and ground force that won France's greatest victory over the British in the past half-century. There were some US troops there, as well, and when the British commander attempted to surrender his sword to the French commander, someone went to find George Washington, and he accepted the gesture. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:32:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Heat and Light In-Reply-To: <010601c4dd7e$2c1555b0$db8f9a51@Robin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit During all this conversation no one has said the obvious- Israel was founded and Zionism is based on the idea that there should be a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine, Herzl uses the word Jewish People not Israeli in his book, The Jewish State. Israel has a law of return that says that any Jew can return to Israel they define Jew as anyone who has a Jewish mother. It is disingenious to say that Jewish and Israeli are not the same the fact is that all Jews are not Israelis but 90% of all Israelis are Jews. This reality can be confirmed by the fact that in 1947 according to the British Mandate census 475,000 Jews lived in Mandate Palestine as related to 2.2 million Arabs of these 2.2 million 650,000 were Christian the balance Muslims. In 1948 there were over 1200 Arab towns in mandate Palestine today there are less than 400 Arab towns in Palestine and Israel combined. It is not Anti Semitic to ask the simple question what happened to these Palestinian towns and people? Before I get the "you are an Antisemite" comment while I am a member of the Catholic Church my Maternal Grandfather was a Sephardic Jew from Padova in Italy so my feelings of conflict are strong on this point since I have relatives in Israel and I do on the whole support the right of Israel to exist but not to kill and destroy Arabs simply because they are in the way. Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Robin Hamilton > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 5:32 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: everyday people > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" : > > > You [Derek] seem mighty sure of your opinion for someone who's > displaying > a great > > degree of cultural ignorance. You really don't have to be a Jewish > historian > > to realize that Jew & Israeli are not interchangeable terms. > > This may be slightly off-the-point, given the amount of > more-heatedness-than-light generated by this particular > discussion, but am I > the only person who's bothered by the conflation of "Jew" and "Jewish" > (before we even get to Israel)? > > It seems to me (non-Jew[ish]) that "Jew" is a racial signifier > that can (all > too often, sometimes unintentionally) elide into anti-semitism, while > "Jewish" is a cultural signifier that embraces ever-so-many things ... > > I find myself reluctant to use the term "Jew", in exactly the same way I'd > be reluctant to use the term "nigger". > > There's a hell of a lot of previous around both terms ... > > Robin > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 16:33:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Being Jewish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am Jewish (the truth) Jew IS a dirty word. I have lived in Israel and on a Kibbutz (truthfully) The conditions were dangerous. The Kibbutz was near a Palestinian = settlement from which terrorists crossed the border into the Kibbutz and = had shot and killed people living on the Kibbutz. I have also lived in Monsey New York studying the Talmud with = ultra-orthodox Chassidic Jews. I celebrate Hanukah. My wife is not Jewish. She is Japanese. So we also = celebrate Christmas. In elementary school I was called a dirty Jew and it was the first time = and last time I have ever threw a punch at someone. The Zionist Jews in Israel and the Chassidic Jews in Monsey New York are = a different kind of Jew than I am. Jewish identity has many different meanings to many different people. The issue is not complicated. What is complicated is how people entrench themselves in an identity = that is in conflict with the identity of someone else. That's all. All the rest of the talk is venting and ideology. August Highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:34:09 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: French Terror Level MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It easy for certain Americans to sneer at the French ( certain Americans of a certain quality or lack of any qualities) the US has never been attacked - I don't call S/11 an attack - a pin prick and also probably organised from within the US - but the US has never been largely occupied by modern armies or attacked as France was - of course there was the American evolution -and hats of to the US for defeating Japan but after that - US Imperialism - downhill ..dragging the world with it - the US always cultivates collaborators so they know all about collaborating - the FBI now are even criticising the terrible treatment of prisoners at Guantanmaro Bay - hats off to those Americans (Bush will try to suppress them and also recent CIA criticism - yes the CIA are a big and complex organization) - they relied on collaborators to get the so-called terrorists in there - the CIA take millions of US$ cash into the Middle East and elsewhere to win wars and win "the good guys" - in fact some battles are/were won by cash payouts to collaborators. Many of the US people - particularly smart woofters like Marcus Balls - are wittingly / or other collaborating with the War OF Terror - "creeping fascism" I heard someone call it the other day...if we have not reached a fascist situation already (as Mailer surmised a few years back) and I include NZ as NZ collaborates with Imperialist countries. M Balez forgets the heroism of thousands of French people who sacrificed their lives in the resistance. This thing from Marcus Bolles is at the best stupid at the worst sick. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:40 AM Subject: Re: French Terror Level > The Germans would have destroyed Paris if the French hadn't surrendered, and > Paris is an idea that belongs to us all. So we should be thankful that the > French were civilized, and they did put together an amazing underground of > resistance that helped defeat the Nazis. While the Germans, whose ethos was, > "Stay the Course," watched their cities being fire-bombed. Long Live Paris, > the City of Light! > > -Joel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Bowering" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 12:29 PM > Subject: Re: French Terror Level > > > > On 8-Dec-04, at 11:09 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > > > > > French Terror Level > > > > > > The terror level index rose, > > > France announced today, > > >> From "Run" to "Hide". The index goes > > > Up further, spokesmen say, > > > > > > The third, and next, one is "Surrender", > > > And then the final state > > > Of being for a French defender > > > Is "Collaborate". > > > > > > > > Yeah? Well, they won your so-called > > "Revolutionary" war for you. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:45:13 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <000c01c4dd76$a0462ed0$93e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Derek, you wrote (and I promise, after this, I will, as you request, unless you change your mind, remove you as a subject of discussion): >>A statement is effectively anti-semitic only if there is, somewhere, an intention to use it for anti-semitic purposes<< And yet our words escape our best intentions all the time. Words have histories, as do rhetorics, and we are born into them and they are borne by us; we grow up with them; and they grow, whether we like it or not, in ways that we are rarely aware of until something happens to make us see, in us. I know many, many words that reduce the meaning of a Black man or woman's existence to the color of his or her skin, and I know how to use them, and I know as well many, many words that reduce the meaning of a woman's existence to her biology, and I know how to use those words too, and I could go on, listing example after example until I could think of no other group to add, and then I know the time would come when something would happen to show me my own ignorance and I would understand that my list would have to grow longer by one more. I did not ask to learn these words or the ideas and attitudes that give them the power they have; nor did any of us; but the fact is that they are part of me, part of us; they are part of the legacy our culture hands us, and one thing I have learned is that it matters deeply what we do with that legacy, that what we do with that legacy is in some sense the only thing that matters. Racism and anti-Semitism and sexism are systems, and it was the system of anti-Semitism that I saw at work in your posts, not only but primarily in the statement you made about Jews believing God commanded us to kill Palestinians. You insist your intentions were not and are not anti-Semitic, and I will continue to take you at your word, and to point out that this is why I was very careful in my initial posts to say that I was not calling you anti-Semitic. And it seems to me that this is the point of disagreement between us: the degree to which we each see the system of anti-Semitism at work in the language we use. I see it there and you do not, though it seems to me that you have *chosen* not to see it there, and it is what seemed to me, after your second to last post, the willfulness of that decision, nothing else, that led me to say that you were being consciously and willfully anti-Semitic. Derek, I am not interested in silencing you or intimidating you or neutering you or in circumcising your mind or any of the other things you think I am trying to do, and I will be the first to admit the possibility that I am wrong. On that question, however--and, as I said, I will not respond to you or after this--I am perfectly happy to let our posts speak for themselves. Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:46:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Jackson Mac Low (1922-2004) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20041208220116.03c00e30@writing.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this is a great sadness... Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Charles Bernstein > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:42 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Jackson Mac Low (1922-2004) > > > Jackson Mac Low > > a signal force in 20th century poetry > > died this morning > > * > > Let me choose the kinds of light > to light the passing of my friend > ..... > [the] black light of absence > ... revelatory light that is no light > the unending light of the realization > that no light will ever light your bodily presence again > > Now your poems' light is all > The unending light of your presence > in the living light of your voice > > (from 32nd Light Poem for Paul Blackburn) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:03:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Being Jewish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well-said, Augie! Ter I am Jewish (the truth) Jew IS a dirty word. I have lived in Israel and on a Kibbutz (truthfully) The conditions were dangerous. The Kibbutz was near a Palestinian settlement from which terrorists crossed the border into the Kibbutz and had shot and killed people living on the Kibbutz. I have also lived in Monsey New York studying the Talmud with ultra-orthodox Chassidic Jews. I celebrate Hanukah. My wife is not Jewish. She is Japanese. So we also celebrate Christmas. In elementary school I was called a dirty Jew and it was the first time and last time I have ever threw a punch at someone. The Zionist Jews in Israel and the Chassidic Jews in Monsey New York are a different kind of Jew than I am. Jewish identity has many different meanings to many different people. The issue is not complicated. What is complicated is how people entrench themselves in an identity that is in conflict with the identity of someone else. That's all. All the rest of the talk is venting and ideology. August Highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 00:03:18 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Last words, I think.... In-Reply-To: <41B7A142.8010106@shaw.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Isaq quoted Genet: >>"Very smart of Israel to carry the war right into the heart of vocabulary..." --Jean Genet<< I wrote in an earlier post: "It gives me no pleasure at all, and it in fact pains me, especially when talking about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, to get mired in the problem of how anti-Semitism weaves itself in and out of this discussion...precisely because it so easily becomes a distraction from what should be the real issue, which is the occupation and how to end it, the brutality being practiced by each side against the other--though Israel is clearly the more powerful of the two players--and so on. I will not, however, pretend that it is possible to have a meaningful dialogue with someone who is not willing to respect who I am by talking about me and my community in a way that reflects accurately how that community understands itself and the realities of that community's existence." Sometimes it is not "Israel" who carries the war into the heart of vocabulary. Raymond Bianchi wrote: >>It is disingenious to say that Jewish and Israeli are not the same the fact is that all Jews are not Israelis but 90% of all Israelis are Jews.<< In Israel, it may indeed be disingenuous to say that Jew and Israeli are not pretty much synonymous--a point I made in an earlier post. It is, however, inaccurate to claim that they are anywhere near synonymous terms when you start talking about the Jews outside of Israel, who make up the majority of Jews in the world. The fact that Israel has a law of return was not something that we all voted on and so it should not be understood as a law that represents in any way the will of the Jewish people as a whole. Nor does the fact that Herzl believed himself to be speaking for the Jewish people as a whole mean that, in fact, he was. There was actually, in New York, prior to 1948 some very strong Jewish opposition to the founding of the Jewish State of Israel. (I do not know the history well; I just know the opposition existed.) Besides, it seems to me what matters now, in terms of what you say here, has more to do with the stance of Jews in and out of Israel towards the Israeli government's policies--not to mention the actions of people in the settlements, etc.--than it does with historical documents. There is nothing anti-Semitic about pointing out that Herzl's Zionism, like all European nationalisms, had and has a good dose of (the white man's) imperialism in it, and that this imperialism has been and continues to be visited with devastating consequences on the Palestinians. Nor is it anti-Semitic to point out that the Israeli government's policies and actions are often justified using rhetoric that makes it look like that government speaks for the Jewish people as a whole or that uses the Jewish religion as if it were some sort of universal truth that all other people should recognize and accede to. Nor is it anti-Semitic to point out that anti-Semitism is often used by Jews who support Israel--and sometimes by non-Jews as well--to frighten critics of Israel into silence. Nor is it anti-Semitic to suggest that Jews who do that ought to be ashamed of themselves for exploiting victimhood in the name of the Israeli occupation. But it would be nice to have a discussion of anti-Semitism that looked anti-Semitism squarely in the face as something that exists far beyond the parameters of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Indeed, I think the phenomenon of using the Palestinian-Israeli conflict to circumscribe discussions of anti-Semitism is one that is worth looking at. This whole discussion began, or at least the part that I have played in it, not with the suggestion that Derek's statement was anti-Semitic because it was critical of Israel, but rather because it generalized about Jews, and it is the license that people feel they have to make that generalization, to conflate Jews and Israelis, that I wish this discussion had focused on. Anyway, it is late and I am tired, and I think there is little else to say about this. Richard ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 23:01:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: The Why not? brings faith Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Why not? brings faith Career assists on taking care of committing good when intercepted=20 aboard flagship This week was dominant focus on Jackson from the mesh=20 the talents On Mad for the orphaned Big Jump Even with historical=20 standards. Zips unable to capitalize absence, from the field,=20 including a Choral rebound. Jackson tipped by video-shot Eagles=20 showing improved involved mouthed surprisingly, Some Low, Some retired=20= Constitution in its artificially international Settlement likely pulled=20= and rocked while too little - low country takes THE film not available=20= on an atmosphere transaction Instead Jackson pulled the giant key next=20= door. The Why not? brings faith to This edition of the more mobile=20 Agenda =A0- that record has said second trombone OF SWAMI Downriver=20 Outside on famous CatTracks With a can't they find a somewhere? for Jackson Mac Low (1922-2004) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 00:07:16 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit women white women frauen weisse frauen women white women o i o women white women no hi ow women white women 're women 'rywhere women white women du hast kein herz women white women vite vomen write..... midnite....on the po dream pillow...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 00:31:32 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Jackson Maclow.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i once spent a nite with a women who was his lover close 'nuff.... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:54:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Schuchat Simon Subject: Re: Derek MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 1. I was not aware the word 'Christian' was a dirty word -- I only used it to indicate Christian people (see http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Christian for my usage) 2. I was not aware of a difference between 'those Christians' and 'other Christians' when I made my post 3. Everyone is reading a great deal more into what I have happened to say as an aside to demonstrate 'divine inspiration' than what I was clearly intending. Given recent events it is clear to me that Christians/Americans appear to carry around a tremendous amount of baggage attached to their ethnicity and the word(s) used to describe it -- and I don't want to get involved with this stuff (you call yourselves Christians so I call you the same, like Hilton said) 4. The Christian/American distinction is confusion -- but regardless how conflated those words are I still had Christians/Americans attacking me on this list for no reason I could fathom and I don't like it 5. The violent land-grab that is going on in Palestine *is undisputedly* religiously motivated and should be subject to a great deal of scrutiny. 6. I don't hate anybody, especially Christians, especially anybody 7. It is not unreasonable to indicate that Christians/Americans (whomever you want to call this group, you know who I mean -- the people who are performing these actions), even just some of them, are bulldozing Palestinian homes and maiming and torturing and killing Palestinians expressly because of a divine commandment from God (what Joel might call 'divine inspiration') -- so what's the problem with my indication, especially just to demonstrate 'divine inspiration'? 8. And if there is a problem, the problem can be nicely approached and calmly explained without every Christian/American (you know who I mean, that cultural group of people on this list) going ape-shit and throwing all kinds of hate-filled ad hominem crap in my direction 9. Whatever problem people have with the Christian/American terminology are problems they carry around themselves. Don't blame me if you have special meaning for some words I couldn't possibly have known being outside the group, I am not a Christianish historian, nor do I study Christianish culture or Christianish politics etc. *(this thread has been a lesson) -- to me Christianish people 'adhere to Christianity as a religion or culture and/or identify themselves as Christian' and that is not a racial slur that's like Hindu, Jew, etc.. so I don't know what hell you saying because it really is conflated, I don't see how an American is not a Christian and I don't see why anyone would read all kinds of terrible meaning into what I said other than to use it as cheap fodder to smear my character because they yearned to do so before anything was said at all 10. I continue to not appreciate people assigning and ascribing particular religious faiths or beliefs to myself and/or assuming what I believe religiously -- and I certainly don't appreciate this childish martyr-mocking bullshit either 11. Can we *finally* acknowledge that there is no Christian magic-spell controlling the populace and Bush doesn't have 'God' whispering commandments in-his-ear? That's what this is all about isn't it? Adios, Derek --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:56:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Being Jewish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Ter! The miracle of the eight days of limited oil versus the birth of the = savior versus the koran. What I know is the truth: And that is family and friends. All the rest is words on a page. History is always a bunch of losers who are crafty. Eternity is always the honesty and truthfulness of the now. I am the now. The now is always anonymity. History is Bush. Anonymity is Bliss. August Highland The anonymous anti-nothingness Bodhisattvah Jewish Man/Husband/Father ----- Original Message -----=20 From: tlrelf=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 8:03 PM Subject: Re: Being Jewish Well-said, Augie! Ter I am Jewish (the truth) Jew IS a dirty word. I have lived in Israel and on a Kibbutz (truthfully) The conditions were dangerous. The Kibbutz was near a Palestinian = settlement from which terrorists crossed the border into the Kibbutz and had shot = and killed people living on the Kibbutz. I have also lived in Monsey New York studying the Talmud with = ultra-orthodox Chassidic Jews. I celebrate Hanukah. My wife is not Jewish. She is Japanese. So we = also celebrate Christmas. In elementary school I was called a dirty Jew and it was the first = time and last time I have ever threw a punch at someone. The Zionist Jews in Israel and the Chassidic Jews in Monsey New York = are a different kind of Jew than I am. Jewish identity has many different meanings to many different people. The issue is not complicated. What is complicated is how people entrench themselves in an identity = that is in conflict with the identity of someone else. That's all. All the rest of the talk is venting and ideology. August Highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:03:44 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Re: Last words, I think.... Comments: To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net In-Reply-To: <20041209050324.MEOX1380.out011.verizon.net@Richard> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/27773.php "...Like a miraculous street artist he beckons us over to watch as he paints prophetic lines and shadows on the pavement. The image complete, he walks away with a shrug. .....There is no doubting that once again he has nailed his colours to the mast of the oppressed, to the "metaphysical revolution of the native". In this instance the Palestinian, as before it had been that of the Black Panthers and before that the Algerian revolution. Said reports that in Beirut in the autumn of 1972, speaking of Sartre's strong pro-Israeli stance, Genet had said: "He's a bit of a coward for fear that his friends in Paris might accuse him of anti- semitism if he ever said anything in support of Palestinian rights." Genet would probably not have been surprised to see otherwise admiring critics, like Edmund White, fearful that such an accusation might be levelled against him,..." (This is an edited version of Ahdaf Soueif's introduction to Prisoner of Love, by Jean Genet, translated by Barbara Bray, published by Granta, London.) http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/647/bo1.htm Fallujah or Sabra or Shatila it's the samo massacre: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/09/30740.php what next Iran? Richard Jeffrey Newman wrote: >Isaq quoted Genet: > > > >>>"Very smart of Israel to carry the war right into the heart of >>> >>> >vocabulary..." >--Jean Genet<< > >I wrote in an earlier post: > >"It gives me no pleasure at all, and it in fact pains me, especially when >talking about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, to get mired in the problem >of how anti-Semitism weaves itself in and out of this discussion...precisely >because it so easily becomes a distraction from what should be the real >issue, which is the occupation and how to end it, the brutality being >practiced by each side against the other--though Israel is clearly the more >powerful of the two players--and so on. I will not, however, pretend that it >is possible to have a meaningful dialogue with someone who is not willing to >respect who I am by talking about me and my community in a way that reflects >accurately how that community understands itself and the realities of that >community's existence." > >Sometimes it is not "Israel" who carries the war into the heart of >vocabulary. > > > > > > > ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:13:50 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Olivet (H.A.T.s in the Square) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai Mi kai mi smash H.A.T.s in the Square Rollin up trousers Baggies And peaches Do you dare Gasaraki Iraqis bombin back Tragedy With the aid of Dr Zin Protect me from the jinn I stomp my feet and you feel my kai Banana bikes and pushers Pushin children Into mental institutions Come Come My selectah Mix for me something Propoganda Isa As Our commander Mu'mi/neen Throwin signifiers Elligtonian Shines and spear chucker Nah fix me Mix me Something sweet woht will destroy ameriKKKa// do you? do you? do you? I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet do you feel my kai? I stomp my feet do you feel my kai ? I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet ¡Ya! Basta Yuh bastards Take one back to your masters My mixer Will summon yuh disaster Woht you figure Woht you gonna do Hip hopper puppets Devil may cry Doll set trip in innocences I'll slash you w/ my sonic Watch my meta come Physical Tactic Treachous Banquets Strategic Clatter Big phat warders and ogres Rapist called soldiers I'll show the real uses of Coxn's crossfader// ¡Ya! Sabahah... He said: Always see everything my brutha They wanna make my people Israel <¡Ya!> Watch my tantric circles Armless standard barers Visualz Come the bringer of water I'll bet your house Ain't built as strong as a Shi'i Blaring blasphemy Chattin rubbish Our life lost in the bush Huntin with Jeffery Momotaro Oil and thievery Did he liked to roll Or just the download Of my selectahz lowlow Ayo, "Let's go get ivy" Scratchin downtempo stereo and typin Colin Ferguson/tranformin Into B-boy frustration I stomp my feet and you feel my kai It's jus the same ol show Y'Kno I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai It's jus the same ol show I stomp my feet do you feel my kai? Yo! Bum Rush the Show Read my flow real slow Like a chat like Satchmo Cee I flexable Like junkies on lowlows Cypherin writs From my mental Rights wrong In the subliminal You cyan catch me I'm addicted To dream scapes seen? I stomp my feet do you feel my kai? Let the drummer get Ital// Physical dub plates Pumpin bikes A beats break a/ Mean smiles Wide as Big Youth// Flex his truth My Styles Yuh cayn get Next to My argy bargy Fassy Snears Come the Mahdi He'll ride fear Yuh hater ass toy Don't stand in my square Angered angels\ Yell Surround my proximity We duckin Jakes Now ain't that wicked Mics and bikes Never break For snakes Ah for heavensake What's the price Of these exchange rapes If he sees not Then Seize him by his forelocks His lying, sinning forelocks You lot Lost inna haze of memory lost From the ceiling they hang In doubt Let him call upon his gang We shall call the guards of hell On mountains high A go tell I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and our feel my kai Kiss me kneck Watch them step Heavy heavy Prophets on Olivets Enemy of the republic Spits Ebonics and sonic Cipher// All yuh bet// Punk you like Thamud// Olivet (H.A.T.s in the Square) for eric and ryan and jcoxn 1425 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8 "On 11 September 1982, Israeli Defence Minister Ariel Sharon, the architect of the invasion, announced that "2,000 terrorists" had remained inside the Palestinian refugee camps around Beirut. ...Around mid-day on Thursday 16 September 1982, a unit of approximately 150 Israeli-allied Phalangists entered the first camp. For the next 40 hours members of the Phalangist militia raped, killed, and injured a large number of unarmed civilians, mostly children, women and elderly people inside the encircled and sealed camps. The estimate of victims varies between 700 (the official Israeli figure) to 3,500." http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/09/30740.php Rudwan Khalil Abubaker: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/33316.php Algonquin women beaten by Quebec Police at logging road checkpoint http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/35027.php Revolution is Bloody http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ Of murder and a friend... http://indymedia.existere.com/newswire/display_any/21 ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 01:35:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Jackson Mac Low In-Reply-To: <6F22B019-499F-11D9-A951-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I have never encountered any person of more intense internal confrontation with the reality of social experience on the' one hand, provoking a concomitant sense of personal political responsibility, and the desire and ability to focus continuously on the reality of internal thought and experience, at the other pole, as it is or could be encompassed in or by forms of verbal expression. A powerful current connected these poles in the writing of Jackson Mac Low, sparking an immensely powerful, dense, astoundingly continuous stream of beautiful, haunting, complexly evocative and inventive poetic objects. All of this from a person of incomparable modesty and humility, yet unmatchable humor and vivacity, particularly in performance of his own or others' poetic or artistic works. Although his works will surely forever continue to nourish, his human presence will be sorely missed and its memory cherished by all who knew or were touched by him. "Time will be wasted but honesty whether in light from an Argend lamp or arc light or Aufklarung is the best=20 policy? Tragedy. Idiocy. Honesty? An aureole springs around a formerly hated form. You must stay alive." Jackson Mac Low born September 12, 1922 died December 8, 2004 [from 14th Light Poem: For Frances Witlin- 10 August 1962] (Black Sparrow Press, 1968) On 12/9/04 12:01 AM, "mIEKAL aND" wrote: > The Why not? brings faith >=20 > Career assists on taking care of committing good when intercepted > aboard flagship This week was dominant focus on Jackson from the mesh > the talents On Mad for the orphaned Big Jump Even with historical > standards. Zips unable to capitalize absence, from the field, > including a Choral rebound. Jackson tipped by video-shot Eagles > showing improved involved mouthed surprisingly, Some Low, Some retired > Constitution in its artificially international Settlement likely pulled > and rocked while too little - low country takes THE film not available > on an atmosphere transaction Instead Jackson pulled the giant key next > door. The Why not? brings faith to This edition of the more mobile > Agenda =A0- that record has said second trombone OF SWAMI Downriver > Outside on famous CatTracks With a can't they find a somewhere? >=20 > for Jackson Mac Low (1922-2004) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 02:33:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: DVD and sampler offered MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed DVDs Available - I'm selling DVDs of my work, $20 including shipping. These should play in a standard DVD player. This is the videowork only - for the textwork as well, you'd buy the sampler, which is on DVD+ for computers - now at $20 as well. This should cover shipping. If you're interested, please write snailmail or send check etc. to Alan Sondheim 432 Dean Street Brooklyn, NY, 11217 USA Partial list of DVD contents: Volume in drive C is HP_PAVILION Volume Serial Number is E487-3215 Directory of C:\dvd 12/09/2004 02:20 AM . 12/09/2004 02:20 AM .. 11/27/2004 12:23 AM 36,619,787 abughr.m2v 12/07/2004 04:33 AM 7,530,269 abughr.txp3 11/27/2004 12:24 AM 1,876,752 america.m2v 11/27/2004 12:24 AM 1,981,022 americaness.m2v 11/26/2004 02:49 AM 132,298,697 arch2.m2v 11/26/2004 01:40 AM 132,298,993 archon.m2v 11/27/2004 12:57 AM 14,681,213 bathingbeauties.m2v 11/26/2004 02:20 AM 4,504,528 bbb 137.m2v 11/26/2004 01:47 AM 33,741,925 blume.m2v 11/26/2004 02:00 AM 59,496,805 bodyTest.m2v 11/26/2004 02:14 AM 48,152,141 brigdanc.m2v 11/26/2004 02:19 AM 29,466,813 c 211.m2v 11/26/2004 02:59 AM 34,993,163 crazyjane.m2v 11/26/2004 02:10 AM 13,555,083 danceofdeath.m2v 11/27/2004 12:59 AM 55,930,751 deathfugue.m2v 11/26/2004 01:50 AM 1,459,669 dump.m2v 11/27/2004 01:05 AM 13,409,106 dup.m2v 11/26/2004 02:16 AM 14,055,587 elcap.m2v 11/26/2004 01:58 AM 124,999,833 extesis.m2v 11/26/2004 02:54 AM 127,126,871 funnn.m2v 11/26/2004 02:03 AM 28,174,498 hundred.m2v 11/26/2004 02:44 AM 92,530,202 icegrid.m2v 11/27/2004 01:01 AM 7,721,290 innocents.m2v 11/26/2004 02:06 AM 75,596,295 intothedark.m2v 12/07/2004 04:41 AM 75,147,894 jungamer.m2v 12/07/2004 04:41 AM 2,350,656 jungamer.mp2 11/27/2004 02:19 AM 1,563,946 kiev.m2v 11/27/2004 02:19 AM 2,085,294 kiev2.m2v 11/27/2004 12:29 AM 73,093,725 monu.m2v 12/07/2004 12:58 AM 57,342,224 Movie_00_(abughr).m2v 12/07/2004 12:58 AM 1,636,992 Movie_00_(abughr).mp2 12/07/2004 04:57 AM 38,722,898 Movie_00_(air).m2v 12/07/2004 04:57 AM 1,119,552 Movie_00_(air).mp2 12/07/2004 12:19 PM 5,876,596 Movie_00_(endofempire).m2v 12/07/2004 12:19 PM 167,328 Movie_00_(endofempire).mp2 12/07/2004 04:57 AM 2,668,990 Movie_01_(america).m2v 12/07/2004 04:57 AM 83,328 Movie_01_(america).mp2 12/07/2004 12:21 PM 46,641,478 Movie_01_(family).m2v 12/07/2004 12:21 PM 1,399,776 Movie_01_(family).mp2 12/07/2004 04:58 AM 2,397,130 Movie_02_(americaness).m2v 12/07/2004 04:58 AM 88,032 Movie_02_(americaness).mp2 12/07/2004 01:05 AM 164,509,502 Movie_02_(arch2).m2v 12/07/2004 01:05 AM 5,926,368 Movie_02_(arch2).mp2 12/07/2004 12:22 PM 21,102,274 Movie_02_(finance).m2v 12/07/2004 12:22 PM 634,368 Movie_02_(finance).mp2 12/07/2004 01:13 AM 205,538,646 Movie_03_(archon).m2v 12/07/2004 01:13 AM 5,926,368 Movie_03_(archon).mp2 12/07/2004 04:58 AM 20,291,394 Movie_03_(bathingbeauties).m2v 12/07/2004 04:58 AM 655,200 Movie_03_(bathingbeauties).mp2 12/07/2004 12:24 PM 42,528,253 Movie_03_(fuck).m2v 12/07/2004 12:24 PM 1,245,888 Movie_03_(fuck).mp2 12/07/2004 01:14 AM 20,291,184 Movie_04_(bathingbeauties).m2v 12/07/2004 01:14 AM 655,200 Movie_04_(bathingbeauties).mp2 902,001 Movie_04_(beginningofthebeautifulworld).m2v 27,552 Movie_04_(beginningofthebeautifulworld).mp2 12/07/2004 12:30 PM 62,622,548 Movie_04_(ghost).m2v 12/07/2004 12:30 PM 6,108,480 Movie_04_(ghost).mp2 12/07/2004 01:15 AM 19,238,863 Movie_05_(bbb).m2v 12/07/2004 01:15 AM 605,472 Movie_05_(bbb).mp2 12/07/2004 05:00 AM 30,610,446 Movie_05_(dow).m2v 12/07/2004 05:00 AM 907,200 Movie_05_(dow).mp2 12/07/2004 12:32 PM 25,375,490 Movie_05_(heap).m2v 12/07/2004 12:32 PM 856,128 Movie_05_(heap).mp2 12/07/2004 01:17 AM 51,961,852 Movie_06_(blume).m2v 12/07/2004 01:17 AM 1,512,000 Movie_06_(blume).mp2 12/07/2004 12:48 PM 283,701,292 Movie_06_(human).m2v 12/07/2004 12:48 PM 8,250,816 Movie_06_(human).mp2 12/07/2004 01:19 AM 13,043,377 Movie_07_(bodyTest).m2v 12/07/2004 01:19 AM 2,665,824 Movie_07_(bodyTest).mp2 12/07/2004 12:49 PM 7,263,730 Movie_07_(hurricane).m2v 12/07/2004 12:49 PM 450,912 Movie_07_(hurricane).mp2 12/07/2004 01:22 AM 71,893,062 Movie_08_(brigdanc).m2v 12/07/2004 01:22 AM 2,156,448 Movie_08_(brigdanc).mp2 12/07/2004 12:49 PM 703,461 Movie_08_(jostlegod).m2v 12/07/2004 12:49 PM 20,832 Movie_08_(jostlegod).mp2 12/07/2004 01:24 AM 45,402,321 Movie_09_(c 211).m2v 12/07/2004 01:24 AM 1,320,480 Movie_09_(c 211).mp2 12/07/2004 12:51 PM 51,008,116 Movie_09_(jpg).m2v 12/07/2004 12:51 PM 1,536,192 Movie_09_(jpg).mp2 12/07/2004 01:25 AM 43,584,656 Movie_10_(crazyjane).m2v 12/07/2004 01:25 AM 1,567,776 Movie_10_(crazyjane).mp2 12/07/2004 12:52 PM 15,794,199 Movie_10_(lastempire).m2v 12/07/2004 12:52 PM 523,488 Movie_10_(lastempire).mp2 12/07/2004 01:26 AM 18,642,599 Movie_11_(danceofdeath).m2v 12/07/2004 01:26 AM 607,488 Movie_11_(danceofdeath).mp2 12/07/2004 12:53 PM 28,010,282 Movie_11_(lean).m2v 12/07/2004 12:53 PM 1,987,776 Movie_11_(lean).mp2 12/07/2004 01:30 AM 81,771,676 Movie_12_(deathfugue).m2v 12/07/2004 01:30 AM 2,505,888 Movie_12_(deathfugue).mp2 12/07/2004 12:53 PM 4,978,413 Movie_12_(madea).m2v 12/07/2004 12:53 PM 150,528 Movie_12_(madea).mp2 12/07/2004 01:30 AM 2,232,530 Movie_13_(dump).m2v 12/07/2004 01:30 AM 64,512 Movie_13_(dump).mp2 12/07/2004 12:54 PM 3,877,584 Movie_13_(medea).m2v 12/07/2004 12:54 PM 173,376 Movie_13_(medea).mp2 12/07/2004 01:31 AM 20,619,059 Movie_14_(dup).m2v 12/07/2004 01:31 AM 598,080 Movie_14_(dup).mp2 12/07/2004 12:54 PM 12,962,835 Movie_14_(memtrace).m2v 12/07/2004 12:54 PM 441,504 Movie_14_(memtrace).mp2 12/07/2004 01:32 AM 20,066,663 Movie_15_(elcap).m2v 12/07/2004 01:32 AM 630,336 Movie_15_(elcap).mp2 12/07/2004 12:54 PM 3,549,964 Movie_15_(mournfulghost).m2v 12/07/2004 12:54 PM 186,144 Movie_15_(mournfulghost).mp2 12/07/2004 01:41 AM 192,402,096 Movie_16_(extesis).m2v 12/07/2004 01:41 AM 5,600,448 Movie_16_(extesis).mp2 12/07/2004 12:55 PM 1,646,844 Movie_16_(mutate).m2v 12/07/2004 12:55 PM 51,072 Movie_16_(mutate).mp2 12/07/2004 01:50 AM 188,514,032 Movie_17_(funnn).m2v 12/07/2004 01:50 AM 5,694,528 Movie_17_(funnn).mp2 12/07/2004 12:55 PM 5,682,711 Movie_17_(nina).m2v 12/07/2004 12:55 PM 190,848 Movie_17_(nina).mp2 12/07/2004 01:52 AM 43,936,087 Movie_18_(hundred).m2v 12/07/2004 01:52 AM 1,261,344 Movie_18_(hundred).mp2 12/07/2004 12:55 PM 359,352 Movie_18_(peace).m2v 12/07/2004 12:55 PM 16,128 Movie_18_(peace).mp2 12/07/2004 01:52 AM 12,136,161 Movie_19_(innocents).m2v 12/07/2004 01:52 AM 345,408 Movie_19_(innocents).mp2 12/07/2004 12:57 PM 46,503,012 Movie_19_(one).m2v 12/07/2004 12:57 PM 1,450,176 Movie_19_(one).mp2 12/07/2004 01:57 AM 109,966,310 Movie_20_(intothedark).m2v 12/07/2004 01:57 AM 3,386,880 Movie_20_(intothedark).mp2 12/07/2004 12:57 PM 3,287,145 Movie_20_(outcrop).m2v 12/07/2004 12:57 PM 181,440 Movie_20_(outcrop).mp2 12/07/2004 01:57 AM 19,816,235 Movie_21_(kiev).m2v 12/07/2004 01:57 AM 639,072 Movie_21_(kiev).mp2 12/07/2004 12:59 PM 45,636,199 Movie_21_(outer).m2v 12/07/2004 12:59 PM 1,567,776 Movie_21_(outer).mp2 12/07/2004 02:02 AM 101,084,808 Movie_22_(monu).m2v 12/07/2004 02:02 AM 3,274,656 Movie_22_(monu).mp2 12/07/2004 12:59 PM 1,132,777 Movie_22_(raise).m2v 12/07/2004 12:59 PM 32,928 Movie_22_(raise).mp2 12/07/2004 02:03 AM 21,146,148 Movie_23_(orgasm).m2v 12/07/2004 02:03 AM 643,776 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12/07/2004 01:13 PM 33,021,083 Movie_34_(watermov).m2v 12/07/2004 01:13 PM 933,408 Movie_34_(watermov).mp2 12/07/2004 01:15 PM 41,481,001 Movie_35_(where).m2v 12/07/2004 01:15 PM 1,509,312 Movie_35_(where).mp2 12/07/2004 01:16 PM 32,050,737 Movie_36_(worldmemory).m2v 12/07/2004 01:16 PM 1,456,224 Movie_36_(worldmemory).mp2 12/07/2004 01:19 PM 104,929,835 Movie_37_(blockhead).m2v 12/07/2004 01:19 PM 3,023,328 Movie_37_(blockhead).mp2 12/07/2004 01:25 PM 118,727,934 Movie_38_(deadiniraq).m2v 12/07/2004 01:25 PM 3,360,000 Movie_38_(deadiniraq).mp2 12/07/2004 01:25 PM 14,720,221 Movie_39_(luz).m2v 12/07/2004 01:25 PM 423,360 Movie_39_(luz).mp2 12/07/2004 01:26 PM 5,275,671 Movie_40_(mamu).m2v 12/07/2004 01:26 PM 147,840 Movie_40_(mamu).mp2 12/07/2004 01:29 PM 56,172,857 Movie_41_(rhinegold).m2v 12/07/2004 01:29 PM 1,691,424 Movie_41_(rhinegold).mp2 12/07/2004 01:32 PM 70,031,294 Movie_42_(tinnitus).m2v 12/07/2004 01:32 PM 2,200,800 Movie_42_(tinnitus).mp2 12/07/2004 01:33 PM 15,487,274 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02:18 AM 2,693,898 surf 145.m2v 11/27/2004 12:24 PM 62,332,978 WolfTC.m2v 11/26/2004 01:48 AM 7,257,972 wump.m2v 11/26/2004 02:26 AM 73,573,366 wv1 042.m2v 11/27/2004 02:18 AM 293,835,049 wvugallery.m2v 11/26/2004 01:43 AM 9,384,249 zthrumb.m2v 217 File(s) 5,995,407,894 bytes 3 Dir(s) 113,189,855,232 bytes free Partial list of DVD+ Sampler contents: _PAVILION E- , .README.txt , READMEst.TXT , .jpg , .gif , .JPG , .jpg ,, .mov , a.txt , ABACUS.TXT ,, abughr.mov ,, abyss.exe ,, aftershock.mov , ah.txt , ai.gif , ai.gif , ai.gif , ai.gif ,, air.mov , ALAN.TXT , am.txt , america.exe , america.mov , americaness.mov , an.txt , ap.txt , archaea.exe , archaea.exe , archaea.exe , archaea.exe , archaea.exe , archaea.exe , archaea.exe , archaea.exe , archaea.exe , archaea.exe ,, archon.mov , aus.exe , AVATARS.TXT , axis.exe , b.txt , ba.txt , baby.exe , baghdad.txt , ballet.exe ,, bar .mpg ,, bar .mpg ,, bathingbeauties.mov , bb.txt ,, bbreast.bmp ,, bbreast.bmp ,, bbreast.bmp ,, bbreast.bmp ,, bbreast.bmp , bee.exe , beginningofthebeautifulworld.mov , BKREVIEW.TXT , blood.exe , Blood.txt ,, blum.avi ,, bodyTest.avi , bonze.jpg , bonze.jpg , bonze.jpg , bonze.jpg , bonze.jpg , bonze.jpg , bonze.jpg , brilliant.exe , c.txt , cancer.txt , cc.txt , char.txt , CINEMA.TXT , COMPBIO.TXT , crown.exe , crown.exe , crown.exe , crown.exe , crown.exe , CYBINFO.TXT , d.txt ,, darru.mp , dd.txt ,, deadiniraq.mp , DEADTIME.TXT ,, deathfugue.mov , defuge.txt , DIARY.TXT , DIARY.TXT , DIARY.TXT , doctor.png , doctor.png , doctor.png , doctor.png , doctor.png , doctor.png , doctor.png , doctor.png , doctor.png ,, dow.mpg ,, dump.avi ,, dup.mov , e.txt , echo.txt , ee.txt ,, elcap.AVI ,, endofempire.mov , eternal.jpg , europa.exe , exe.txt , EXE_README.txt , explode.jpg ,, extesis.avi , f.txt ,, family.avi , Fantasm.txt , fashion.mov , ff.txt , FIGURE.TXT , film.txt , FILMVID.TXT ,, finance.mpg , flight.jpg , FLUX.TXT , footnote.txt , fop.txt , FOPINFO.TXT ,, frac.bmp ,, fuck.avi ,, fucking.jpg , fung.mov ,, funnn.avi , FUTCULT.TXT , FUTURE.TXT , futureworld.jpg , futureworld.jpg , futureworld.jpg , futureworld.jpg , g.txt ,, gb.exe , gg.txt ,, ghost.mov ,, girlie.bmp ,, girlie.bmp ,, glory.exe , GOD.exe ,, godardusa.mov ,, godardusa.mp ,, gra.mov , graph.exe , groundzero.jpg ,, grundfragen.avi , h.txt ,, heap.mov , hemiptera.exe , hemiptera.exe , hemiptera.exe , hh.txt ,, hit.mov , hold.exe ,, human.mov ,, hundred.avi , hurricane.mov , i.txt , ii.txt ,, informatics.bmp ,, innocents.mov ,, insidepennsylvania.bmp ,, intothedark.mpg , INTRVIEW.TXT , j.txt jj , jj.txt , jk.txt , jl.txt , jm.txt , jn.txt , jo.txt , jostlegod.mov , jp.txt ,, jpg.AVI , jq.txt , jr.txt , js.txt , jt.txt , ju.txt , juarezmudruin.mov ,, jungamer.mov , jv.txt , jw.txt , jx.txt , jy.txt , k.txt , k.txt , ka.txt , kali.exe , kb.txt , kc.txt , kd.txt , ke.txt , kf.txt , kg.txt , kh.txt , ki.txt ,, kiev.mov , kj.txt , kk.txt , kl.txt , km.txt , kn.txt , ko.txt , kp.txt , kq.txt , kr.txt , ks.txt , kt.txt , ku.txt , kv.txt , kw.txt , kx.txt , ky.txt , KYOKO.TXT , kz.txt , l.txt , la.txt , laguna.jpg , laguna.jpg , laguna.jpg , laguna.jpg , laguna.jpg , laguna.jpg , land.jpg , land.jpg , land.jpg , land.jpg , land.jpg ,, lastempire.mov , lb.txt , lc.txt , ld.txt , le.txt ,, lean.mov , lf.txt , lg.txt , lh.txt , li.txt , lj.txt , lk.txt , ll.txt , lm.txt , ln.txt , lo.txt , LOVE.TXT , lp.txt , lq.txt , lr.txt , ls.txt , lt.txt , lu.txt , lv.txt , lw.txt , lx.txt , ly.txt , lz.txt , m.txt , ma.txt , machinic.png , madea.mov , mb.txt , mc.txt , md.txt , me.txt , measure.png , measure.png , measure.png , measure.png , medea.mov ,, memtrace.mov , mf.txt , mg.txt , mh.txt , mi.txt , MIAMI.txt , mj.txt , mk.txt , ml.txt , mm.txt , mn.txt , mo.txt , MODEL.TXT ,, monu.mov , more.jpg , more.jpg , more.jpg , more.jpg , more.jpg , more.jpg , mournfulghost.mov , mourning.exe , mov.txt , movie.txt , mp.txt , mq.txt , mr.txt , ms.txt , mt.txt , mu.txt , mutate.mov , mv.txt , mw.txt , mx.txt , my.txt , myascii.jpg , mz.txt , n.txt , na.txt ,, natural.wav , nb.txt , nc.txt , nd.txt , ne.txt , nebula.png , nebula.png , nebula.png , nebula.png , nebula.png , nebula.png , nebula.png , nebula.png , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt , net.txt ,, newyorkatnight.jpg ,, newyorkatnight.jpg ,, newyorkatnight.jpg ,, newyorkatnight.jpg ,, newyorkatnight.jpg ,, newyorkatnight.jpg ,, newyorkatnight.jpg ,, newyorkatnight.jpg ,, newyorkatnight.jpg , nf.txt , ng.txt , nh.txt , ni.txt ,, Nikuko.asf , nina.mov , nj.txt , nk.txt , nl.txt , nm.txt , nn.txt , no.txt ,, node.mp ,, node.mp , node.mp , node.mp ,, node.mp , NOISE.TXT , np.txt , nq.txt , nr.txt , ns.txt , nt.txt , nu.txt , nv , o.txt , object.png , object.png , oldaba.txt ,, one.mov , ontic.jpg , ontic.jpg ,, oppose .jpg ,, oppose .jpg , outcrop.mov ,, outer.avi , overlook.exe , p.txt , panamar.txt , peace.mov , pest.exe , pest.exe , phen.txt , photoghoul.jpg ,, plasma.exe , play.txt , POET.TXT , postmode.txt , POTEPOET.TXT , PROSEBIO.TXT ,, purebody.avi , q.txt , QUEER.TXT , r.txt , raise.mov , REDYEAR.TXT , resume.txt ,, rhinegold.avi ,, rund.AVI ,, rust.exe , s.txt , said.png , salt.pdf , scler.exe , signal.mov , skein.jpg , skein.jpg , skein.jpg , skein.jpg , skein.jpg , skein.jpg , skein.jpg , skein.jpg , skein.jpg , skein.jpg , sks.exe , sks.exe slough , sophia.txt ,, sorewave.mov , SOUND.TXT ,, sprites.avi , star.exe , statenegative.jpg , statepositive.png , stelarc.txt ,, store.bmp ,, stored.bmp ,, storehouse.bmp ,, storer.bmp ,, storeroom.bmp ,, suck.avi , surplus.mov ,, swole.mov , swoon.exe , t.txt , tao.html ,, tao.swf ,, tern.mov , textscan.png , textscan.png , textscan.png , textscan.png , textscan.png , textscan.png textscan.png , theargumentsofar.png , THROAT.TXT ,, thule.mov ,, tinitusss.mov ,, torn.AVI , torso.jpg , torso.jpg , torso.jpg , torso.jpg , Travis.jpg ,, treasure.mov , tub.jpg , tub.jpg , tub.jpg , tub.jpg , tub.jpg , twirple.png , tz.exe , u.txt , umb.exe , umb.exe , Uncanny.txt , uttermost.mov ,, vel.pdf , victor.exe , VIDEO.TXT , VIDEO.TXT ,, visitor.mov , void.exe , wall.exe , wallvoid.exe ,, watermov.mov , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , wave.jpg , weather.exe , Weather.txt , web.exe , western.png , western.png ,, where.mov ,, WolfTC.mov , word.exe , word.exe , worlda.png , worldb.png ,, worldmemory.mov , WRITING.TXT , writing.txt ,, wtc.mov ,, wvugallery.mov ,, xzais.mov , zz.txt - Thanks, Alan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 02:28:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: everyday people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit alan why argue with these folk they're all anti-semites even if they think they're not it's like the black/white thing i heard a lady say today she's coming out a being christian and it was scary why because of the anti-semites in the whitehouse who use israel as a pawn too bad the jewish state wasn't established in ny or florida anyway we got a raw deal and the palestinians are certainly getting a raw deal but why waste your energy on all this intellectualizing rhetoric by so many wonderful warm christians we killed their god remember BARABAS lives on in israell - he's just a bit too heavty handed- right wing and israelis are jews just not ny jews and most israelis i know and that's quite a few of course oppose the right wing fascist israeli gov't but the isreali guys in the shoestore below me want palestine to be blown to smitereens but hey no pal is stein is a pal o mine and the brits certainly did create a frankenstein forget 'em alan they'll never know what a good lucsion(sp) koogle tastes like or kreplach or flanken neither will most isrealis for that matter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 03:10:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: How The Empyrean Brutely Computes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nice one ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:13:10 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: everyday people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Steve Dalachinksy" > alan why argue with these folk they're all anti-semites even if they > think they're not > it's like the black/white thing Why didn't they settle the Israelis in Canada? Tell me two questions and I'll tell two lies. For all of me, I think Malamud got it right in "The Jewbird". R. > i heard a lady say today she's coming out a being christian > and it was scary why because of the anti-semites in the whitehouse > who use israel as a pawn > > too bad the jewish state wasn't established in ny or florida > anyway we got a raw deal > and the palestinians are certainly getting a raw deal > but why waste your energy on all this intellectualizing rhetoric by > so many wonderful warm christians > we killed their god remember > > BARABAS lives on in israell - he's just a bit too heavty handed- right > wing > > and israelis are jews just not ny jews > and most israelis i know and that's quite a few of course oppose the > right wing > fascist israeli gov't > but the isreali guys in the shoestore below me > want palestine to be blown to smitereens > > > but hey no pal is stein is a pal o mine and the brits certainly did > create a frankenstein > > forget 'em alan they'll never know what a good lucsion(sp) koogle > tastes like > or kreplach or flanken neither will most isrealis for that matter > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 22:22:03 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Being Jewish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jew "can be" a dirty word (but it isn't always ) - the usage of all words affect them and as someone who quoted Genet implicitly noted "How clever of Israel ..." (Genet was a great writer I loved his "Miracle of the Rose") but really of course language has been distorted or twisted or enhanced by language - extreme Zionists I don't like - but then its there - the problem of Israel's colonisation of the Trans Jordan and pushing out several hundred thousands of Palestinians, the murders in Lebanon etc wont go away so easily - we are right - all of us - even if we go ad hominem - or not - to discuss this - I didn't want by the way to shut down (Derek was it - maybe he confused me with Richard Jefferson..) my dispute here was with the tone but then my own tone has been strident (once I got angry and said I wanted Israel driven into the sea) but I realise that the situation in the world and in Palestine is complex - that said I am more "on the side" of the Palestinians - but I can understand the angst that Alan suffers and I am not anti-Semitic - I hope no one on here is - my comment before that I think it was derek objected to - felt that his post was kind of cacophonic so that it SOUNDED as if he hated Jews - I don't think he does but - in the light of the way Alan Sondheim was deeply affected I leapt to Alan's defence - as while the Israel - Palestine problem is terrible - it is also true that anti-Semitism is still strong - it would be whether Zionism existed or not - but we hope for a world in the long run where people don't hate on the basis of race etc That is our aim - it will take time - but it is possible for a more tolerant world - but it will take time and it is an ongoing struggle - there are no utopias - struggle is what we are - we need struggle: of ideas, for production, between genders, class, culture etc I often think of W C Williams poem when he was at a football game - the crowd - in the crowd people change so that the "blond" is "attacked" by wolf whistles and "the Jew gets it" - WCWs wasn't a saint himself but he knew the world..................When I was in NY in 1993 (all the way from NZ - only other place o/s NZ I've been to is Fiji) I was fascinated to see so many Jews in caps and also the Hassidic Jews. And all the other people - each person unique in themselves. My first contact was with a guy who runs (or he ran) (I think he is part owner -or maybe he was just a curator) of a NY Art gallery (he had a PhD in art) and he was of a New Yorker of Jewish family I think, he ran a kind of poetry club on Sundays where re I read -a also read at eth Nuyroican and a few other places -so - I also met some nice people near the Lower East Side and a strange "disturbed" Russian guy an also an Italian bloke who read poetry on TV - what I liked about NY was the great mix of cultures and peoples and all the diversity: the Irish pubs and the Italian places and the Korean joints and the big Jewish delicatessen and so on - and this guy (Webber or Weber?) went with me from the East Side to Greenwich - we stopped in a (new books ) shop and he read from Steven's poem about Key Point and later he and I got to his friends in Greenwich where he and a friend discussed American art - I didn't know as much of art as now know so couldn't really join in much ) - we went around to a condom shop - a shop specialising in sex items!! and so on - I loved Washington Square.... For me yes the sight of the Jews in caps was a bit strange - as it was to see cops with guns and a lot of homeless rattling cups (usually those polystyrene cups) but it was part of the scene (I even got to know a homeless black guy who wrote for the "Homeless People's" Newspaper - I used to drink in a baron 47th and "wrestle and exchange raillery with back guys playing pool and so on...- and that's what the whole world is - its a lot of different people who can coexist despite very large or small differences until Thugs start whipping up crap about terror and so on Struggle is endless. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "August" To: Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 1:33 PM Subject: Being Jewish I am Jewish (the truth) Jew IS a dirty word. I have lived in Israel and on a Kibbutz (truthfully) The conditions were dangerous. The Kibbutz was near a Palestinian settlement from which terrorists crossed the border into the Kibbutz and had shot and killed people living on the Kibbutz. I have also lived in Monsey New York studying the Talmud with ultra-orthodox Chassidic Jews. I celebrate Hanukah. My wife is not Jewish. She is Japanese. So we also celebrate Christmas. In elementary school I was called a dirty Jew and it was the first time and last time I have ever threw a punch at someone. The Zionist Jews in Israel and the Chassidic Jews in Monsey New York are a different kind of Jew than I am. Jewish identity has many different meanings to many different people. The issue is not complicated. What is complicated is how people entrench themselves in an identity that is in conflict with the identity of someone else. That's all. All the rest of the talk is venting and ideology. August Highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 01:30:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: jackson m low Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed a nice man how does one say sad echomerz sad ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:08:38 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Fw: everyday people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan asked me to send this on. I dont agree with all - I agree with quite a bit of it - here but empathise with Alan's angst and feelings on this issue. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: "richard.tylr" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:18 PM Subject: Re: everyday people > > For me, Zionism was a reaction to the pretty much continuous > discrimination, ghettoization, and pogroms that characterized Europe and > Russia through the 19th-century - going back much earlier obviously to the > expulsion of Jews from here and there. Sandor Gilman does a good job on > extensive documentation of this stuff. And Israel today is split in dozens > of different directions - moreso by a longshot than the US, for example. > Yet the left persists in treating it as a monolith. Suicide bombers > against Israel are thought ok, while Israeli violence is condemned. In my > mind, it's a hopeless situation, all parties in lockstep with each other > in a war that's been pretty much continuous since 1948. > > And the left is ugly in this - which is where my anguish comes from. The > left of any sort obviously advocates tolerance, historical analysis in > depth, sensitivity - with everything except Israel. There are even left > attempts to understand - better, comprehend, El Quaeda and its roots. But > when it comes to Israel, the equation Israel=Jew is made, and both are > condemned ab nihilo ad nihilo. > > This for me is where the anti-semitism comes in. If leap judgements and > ignorance and name-calling occured anywhere else, it would be condemned as > racism or some such. But with the Israeli/Palestinian situation, the left > treats it as black and white as, say, the right in the US treats the left. > > It's never-ending. > > If you could, please forward this to Poetics. It's as much of an explana- > tion as I can come up with. > > Thanks, Alan > > http://www.asondheim.org/ > WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ > http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:01:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: Jackson Mac Low (1922-2004) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Jackson at Sunset -- http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/maclow/sunset.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:29:30 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: French Terror Level In-Reply-To: <002001c4dd86$cd200380$b7f137d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Dec 2004 at 13:34, richard.tylr wrote: > It easy for certain Americans to sneer at the French ( certain > Americans of a certain quality or lack of any qualities) ... > Many of the US people - particularly smart woofters like Marcus Balls ... > M Balez forgets ... > This thing from Marcus Bolles is at the best stupid at the worst sick. Humorous poetry is fiction, just like other artistic endeavors, and uses a wide variety of techniques, including unfair caricature, exaggeration, even outright falsehoods, to create layers of meaning. It is as much a mistake to say that this poem, which mocks not merely the French bureaucracy (and who >invented< bureaucracy, eh?), but the whole notion of official terror levels, and the deadpan style of news reportage, to mention a few, is "stupid" or "sick" as it is to say that the prose stylings of free versists, dressed up in odd lineations and unwarranted claims, are merely prose stylings dressed up in odd lineations and unwarranted claims. Marcus > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joel Weishaus" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:40 AM > Subject: Re: French Terror Level > > > > The Germans would have destroyed Paris if the French hadn't > > surrendered, > and > > Paris is an idea that belongs to us all. So we should be thankful > > that the French were civilized, and they did put together an amazing > > underground of resistance that helped defeat the Nazis. While the > > Germans, whose ethos > was, > > "Stay the Course," watched their cities being fire-bombed. Long Live > Paris, > > the City of Light! > > > > -Joel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "George Bowering" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 12:29 PM > > Subject: Re: French Terror Level > > > > > > > On 8-Dec-04, at 11:09 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > > > > > > > French Terror Level > > > > > > > > The terror level index rose, > > > > France announced today, > > > >> From "Run" to "Hide". The index goes > > > > Up further, spokesmen say, > > > > > > > > The third, and next, one is "Surrender", > > > > And then the final state > > > > Of being for a French defender > > > > Is "Collaborate". > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah? Well, they won your so-called > > > "Revolutionary" war for you. > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:48:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <41B7A142.8010106@shaw.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i adore genet. but there is a lot of evidence that he disliked jewish people as jews. At 4:50 PM -0800 12/8/04, Ishaq wrote: >"Very smart of Israel to carry the war right into the heart of >vocabulary..." >--Jean Genet > >http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/27773.php > >http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/647/bo1.htm > >derekrogerson wrote: > >>Look it Richard: have not used any words with any intention to inflict >>hate or incite maliciousness or any anything resembling anything like >>that. I have even apologized for saying something you have taken >>completely the wrong way. I'm sorry you have this mental baggage, I'm >>sorry that you insist on trying to make me carry it also, but listen -- >>I have no interest in carrying it. If you don't like to be called Jewish >>when that is the only word I have available to me to describe your >>ethnicity then either I have to shut up and be coerced to silence and >>give you free-reign to do whatever you like because you are 'above >>reproach and discussion' or I can claim my own independence to speak >>freely and civilly. Stop telling me what I can and can not speak within >>the scope of polite discussion and **stop attributing negative racial >>intention to my words** -- all these things are things *you* are doing >>and have nothing to do with me. Get a grip on life! >> >>I don't hold enmity towards any racial, cultural, or religious group and >>I never will. >> >>If you have to unjustly call me anti-semitic because that's what you >>believe then you are just a malicious idiot. But I'm starting very much >>to form a dislike for this line of interrogation. You are acting like a >>person who believes they are above every other person like they have >>been chosen as superior to all others -- a spoiled brat. Try respecting >>everyone as equals (not as people beneath you) and stop 'correcting' >>people and believing everyone needs to be 'put in their place'. If you >>want to correct a fact, correct it -- but you are not trying to correct >>facts you are trying to put me into cultural submission. I will make up >>my own mind about things, thank you, and I will not alter myself, even >>under threat of force, to accommodate your political and/or cultural >>beliefs. A statement is effectively anti-semitic only if there is, >>somewhere, an intention to use it for anti-semitic purposes -- not if >>Richard or Alan or Mark from their high-altar proclaim it is >>anti-semitic. There is no anti-semitic intention to my words and I don't >>appreciate your undying efforts to attribute racial hate to them (even >>you must get everyone in the land to come onlist and make that assertion >>there is still no intention). Stop trying to neuter me. Stop trying to >>circumcise my mind. You have a real mental problem and I don't want to >>have anything to do with it. >> >> -- leave me alone you thought-police freaks, Derek >> >> >>Murat wrote: >>..| I thought you were considering yourself >>..| a Jewish/Israeli historian and seem >>..| to be very proud of it >> >>Why why why would you ever think I considered myself Jewish/Israeli >>historian and even more to be very proud of anything?? I can't stand it. >>Where is this misinformation coming from? Where have I given any >>indication of this? 1948 is so many decades before I was even born! >> >>ugh! Being called an upstart is even more distressing to me than being >>called anti-semitic. People need to immediately remove me as a subject >>for their discussions and stop using me as a metaphor in their writings. >>Please. >> >> >> > >-- >{\rtf1\mac\ansicpg10000\cocoartf102 >{\fonttbl\f0\fswiss\fcharset77 Helvetica;} >{\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;} >\margl1440\margr1440\vieww9000\viewh9000\viewkind0 >\pard\tx560\tx1120\tx1680\tx2240\tx2800\tx3360\tx3920\tx4480\tx5040\tx5600\tx6160\tx6720\ql\qnatural > >\f0\fs24 \cf0 \ >___\ >Stay Strong\ >\ >"Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ >--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ >\ >"This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ >of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ >--HellRazah\ >\ >"It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ >--Mutabartuka\ >\ >"As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ >our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ >actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ >- Frantz Fanon\ >\ >"Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ >-Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ >\ >http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ >\ >http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ >\ >http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ >\ >http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ >\ >http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ >\ >} -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:59:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <00c201c4ddcf$4ee7cf40$db8f9a51@Robin> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Stalin, that great friend of the Jews, established a Jewish homeland on the Pacific coast of Siberia. Churchill proposed a Jewish homeland in Uganda (nicer climate, tho). Both were seeking answers to what came to be called The Jewish Question or the Jewish Problem after the onset of Romantic nationalism, with its focus on ethnic exclusivities. Question, Problem, would seem to have demanded a Solution. Myself, it seems to me that the utter devastation of much of Europe after WWII created an opening for restructuring European ethnic separatism, as it in fact has in many countries (and see, for instance, the establishment of the EEU, one of the few things that have made me at all hopeful for the human race, despite its flaws, despite Bosnia and Kosovo)--a European solution to a European problem. Which for a lot of European Jews would have been an incredibly sad alternative--living among the bloodstains and memories, and the unshakeable insecurity--but for me would have been more in keeping with my own sense of the relentlessly diasporic nature of European Jewishness, which gave it its vitality but also made it so vulnerable. We invented Romantic longing, building it into not only the culture but the religion. Even childrens' toys--I'm thinking of the Hanukah dreydl, with its four letters as acronym for "a great miracle happened there." Or the salutation "next year in Jerusalem." In Israel the dreydl now says "a great miracle happened here," and I for one won't go to Jerusalem or for that matter to anywhere in Israel for as long as it continues to exacerbate the very bad bargain imposed by Europe and by zionism on all the peoples there. Which means I probably won't live long enough to go there. Those powering the conflict, from Begin and before to Sharon, appear to be motivated by the most secular of goals. Before the orthodox started calling the West Bank Judea and Samaria the rationale for the settlements there, and also in the Golan Heights, was that Israel needed them for security. And the insecurity of Israeli life has led to the election of these monsters. Whatever I and others think of the history, the facts on the ground won't go away. There are now two large populations with no place else to go. A settlement would obviously be in the interest of both, tho its aftermath at least for a couple of decades would probably be pretty messy. That settlement could happen tomorrow if a second term US president with nothing to lose and everything to gain for his party were willing to act. Israel survives on US loan guarantees. Withdraw them until the settlements are cleared and everyone's at the bargaining table and by the next election Bush would be seen as the Savior of the Jews, a position that one would think given the rhetoric of the religion he pretends to he would rather relish. I'm not holding my breath. Mark >Why didn't they settle the Israelis in Canada? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:12:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Blue Poets in Red States MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Red Poets in Blue States, I am working on a collaboration of Blue Poets in Red States and invite = Blue Poets in Red States to contact me if they are interested.=20 Best, Michael Rothenberg Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:17:47 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Blue Poets in Red States In-Reply-To: <011f01c4de01$885d0e70$e066ea04@MICHAEL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT How red? Ohio is just barely red. Marcus On 9 Dec 2004 at 10:12, Michael Rothenberg wrote: > Dear Red Poets in Blue States, > > I am working on a collaboration of Blue Poets in Red States and invite > Blue Poets in Red States to contact me if they are interested. > > Best, > > Michael Rothenberg > Big Bridge > www.bigbridge.org > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 07:51:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Brigitte Byrd Subject: Re: French Terror Level AND RESISTANCE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I just read the very first message under "French Terror Level" and find the last lines of this piece quite limited in scope and even maybe ignorant: "And then the final state/Of being for a French defender/Is "Collaborate" (????) I thought I would remind the author of the French Resistance and of French people who fought against the German occupation. . . . Brigitte Byrd De Gaulle, Jean Moulin and the Conseil National de la Résistance. In accordance with instructions from London, Jean Moulin succeeded in bringing about a separation between military and political action in each of the Resistance movements. This was the necessary preliminary to the creation of a "Secret Army", formed from the merging of the paramilitary formations of the southern movements, "Combat", "Libération" and "Franc-Tireur", and the five resistance movements in the northern zone, "Organisation Civile et Militaire", "Libération Nord", "Ceux de la Résistance", "Ceux de la Libération" and the "Front National". General Delestraint agreed to take command of these forces and placed himself under the orders of General de Gaulle who had served under him before the war. At the same time Jean Moulin set up, under his own direct control, two technical arms : the "Service des Opérations Aériennes et Maritimes "(SOAM - Air and Maritime Operations Service) which was later to become the "Service des Atterrissages et Parachutages" (SAP - Landings and Parachute Service) and the "Service Radio" known as the WT. He also set up two other bodies which would have a more political role : the "Bureau d'Information et de Presse" (BIP), a full-scale clandestine press agency under Georges Bidault, and the "Comité Général d'Etude" (CGE - General Study Committee), responsible for preparing the administrative and legislative measures that would be needed on liberation. Finally, Jean Moulin succeeded in bringing together into a single National Resistance Council, the "Conseil National de la Résistance" (CNR), representatives of the eight principal resistance movements, of the two trade union groups (CGT and CFTC) rebuilt in secrecy and of the six political parties or movements that had held parliamentary seats under the 3rd Republic (the Communist party, the Socialist party, the Radical party, the Popular Democratic party, the Democratic Alliance and the Republican Federation). †Benoist, Robert (French Grand Prix race car driver) Fled to Britain after the fall of France and joined Special Operations Executive. Was captured by Gestapo in August 1943 but managed to escape and return to UK. Returned later to work with SOE agent Denis Bloch but was arrested again in june 1944 and sent to Buchenwald, where he was executed. Bidault, Georges (French journalist and politician) Became a POW after German attack until July 1941. Moved to the unoccupied zone and joined the Liberte resistance group (that later merged with Verite to become Combat). He succeeded Jean Moulin as head of the National Committee of the Resistance (CNR) in 1943. Represented the Resistance in the victory parade down the Champs Elysees on the day after Paris was liberated. Boulle, Pierre (French author of Bridge on the River Kwai fame). Was in Indochina when the War started and joined the local army. After the fall of France he joined the Free French Mission in Singapore and became a secret agent under the name Peter John Rule. He helped the resistance movement in China, Burma and Indochina. Was captured by the Vichy French loyalists in 1943 on the Mekong River but escaped from Saigon in 1944, and served until the end of the war in British special forces. Borel, Emile (French mathematician) Was briefly arrested by Vichy regime after which he begun to support Resistance. Camus, Albert (French author) In a left-wing Parisian resistance group called Combat that, alongside sabotage and intelligence, published an underground newspaper of the same name. Codename Beauchard. Wrote many of his famous books during the war. Cousteau, Jacques-Yves (French marine explorer) Had been discharged from the navy before the war due to disability. Spied for French resistance when working with the creation of aqualung. Eluard, Paul (French surrealist poet, born Eugene Grandel). Served in French army and later in the communist resistance with his second wife Maria Benz. Faure, Edgar (French politician) Joined the French Resistance after the Fall of France. Fled to Algiers in 1942 to join De Gaulle who made him head of the legislative department of his provisional government. Prosecutor at the Nuremberg trials. †Grover-Williams, William (French race car driver) After the fall of France, fled to UK and joined to Army Service Corps. Was recruited into Special Operations Executive. Gestapo arrested him June 1943 and sent to Sachenhausen. Executed just before the end of the war. Malet, Leo (French detective author and creator of Nestor Burma). Was released 1940 from Rennes Prison (in which he had been imprisoned for spreading left-wing propaganda) to join the army. After defeat, tried to reach Paris by foot but was captured by Germans and interned in Stalag XB POW camp. He was later released because of ill health. Many Nestor Burma stories are placed in German-occupied Paris. Malraux, Andre (French author and politician) Served in French tank unit and was captured during the Western Offensive. Joined French resistance and adopted a codename Colonel Berger afterwards. After the liberation of Paris served in the Alsace-Lorraine Brigade. Was captured by Gestapo in 1944 but survived to see the liberation. Described his experiences in a roundabout way in the Anti-Memoires Marker, Chris (French director, born Christian Bouche-Villeneuve) French Resistance Mitterrand, Francois (French politician and to-be-president). Wounded and captured during German's Western Offensive. 1943 joined ORA (Organization of Armed Resistance) and visited London, where De Gaulle told him to unify different groups that represented former soldiers. Rainier III (Prince of Monaco) Served as an Second Lieutenant in artillery regiment in the French army. He was cited for bravery for his conduct during the German counteroffensive in Alsace and was awarded Croix de Guerre. †Saint-Exupery, Antoine de (French aviator and author of the Little Prince) Pilot though he was not considered able to fly military planes due to his several injuries. In 1940 escaped to USA. Joined Free French air force in North Africa although he was not accepted with full enthusiasm. Disappeared July 27th 1944 over Mediterranean, flying from Sardinia to France. Sartre, Jean-Paul (French author, playwright and pro-communist intellectual) Drafted as a weatherman. Was imprisoned after the fall of France. Later returned to occupied Paris to work as a teacher. Peripherally Involved with members of Combat resistance group writing propaganda thought not particularly active. Tzara, Tristan (Romanian-born French poet and one of the founders of Dadaism; original name Sami Rosentstock) Joined the French Resistance. Wimille, Jean-Pierre (French race car driver) After the fall of France, was recruited into Special Operations Executive for the duration of the War. And Baker, Josephine (US-born black entertainer) Worked for the French Red Cross in the beginning of the war and helped Resistance after the fall of France. Met US and British espionage agents and reported on Germans watching her performances. She was awarded the Freedom Medal and the Cross of Lorraine in 1945. Beckett, Samuel (Irish-born playwright) Joined Gloria SMH cell of French resistance. His cell was betrayed but he managed to flee to countryside with his wife. Settled into Paris after the war. In addition to these people, there is of course multitude of others who are only locally famous. ===== Visiting Instructor English Department Florida State University Tallahassee, FL 32308-1580 (850)645-0103 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:07:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Ravi Shankar tours San Francisco - Dec. 11th to Dec. 15th - Events with poets Ilya Kaminsky, Eileen Tabios, Niloufar Talebi, and others MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From December 11, 2004=20 InLit: Reading Int'l Literature=20 TTP moderates a panel of editors and translators to explore how we read = the literature of other cultures and how those cultures are unmade and = remade through various representations such as translation. Panelists = include Ilya Kaminsky, Ravi Shankar, Alejandro Murguia, Eileen Tabios. Locus Arts 2857 - 24th street @ Bryant in SF (Galeria de la Raza).=20 2-3:30. $5. Reception to follow talk. December 12, 2004=20 Gathering of International Poetry=20 POETS FOR PEACE and TTP host a featured reading at the San Francisco = Main Library. Readers include Ilya Kaminsky, Ravi Shankar, Fiona Lam, = J.P. Dancing Bear, Pireeni Sundaralingam, Joyce Jenkins, Haleh Hatami, = Igor Yevelev. Open and free to public. Main Library, Lower Level, Latino/Hispanic Community Meeting Room, 2:00 = - 4:30 p.m. 100 Larkin Street (at Grove)=20 December 13, 2004=20 Young Poets Series=20 TTP invites Ravi Shankar for a weekend of readings and discussions. Ravi = reads from his book, Instrumentality, as well as selections of a = forthcoming anthology he co-edits. Poetry Express, Priya Indian Cuisine, = 2072 San Pablo Avenue, Berkeley. 7-9:30. Hosted by Mark States. *This event is supported by Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it has = received from The James Irvine Foundation.* December 15, 2004=20 Ravi Shankar ("Instrumentality") will read from his book from 8 to 9 pm = Pacific time on Wednesday, December 15 as a guest on FM91.5 KKUP's "Out = of Our Minds" radio show in Cupertino, California. J.P. Dancing Bear = ("Billy Last Crow") hosts. For more information, visit = http://www.kkup.org.=20 *************** Ravi Shankar=20 editor, http://www.drunkenboat.com=20 Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:06:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Jackson Mac Low (1922-2004) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20041208220116.03c00e30@writing.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jackson Mac Low's departure is a great loss indeed. The radiant yet=20 earthy energy with all its lovely curmudgenius knots, the absolute=20 clarity of the man's human, social, political engagement with this=20 world in this world, relentless, day after day working to change this=20 world despite what his friend John Cage had said about that desire, and=20= just as relentless, day after day, the light of the poems -- ah, who=20 will write the light poem for Jackson? Here is some of what Jerome Rothenberg & I wrote about Jackson in the=20 "commentary" of the Millennium book: All light is relevant to each light / & each light to every light / & each light to each light / & every light to each light / & all light to every light / & every light to all light / & each light to all light / & all light to all light. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Is that lucid? =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Yes. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0(JML)= Mac Low stands with John Cage as one of the two major artists to have=20 brought systematic chance (aleatoric) operations into our poetic &=20 musical practice since the Second World War.=A0The resulting work raises=20= fundamental questions about the nature of poetry & the function of the=20= poet as creator.=A0It also sums up & greatly extends the experiments of=20= many earlier avant-garde poets, not only with !objective chance! but=20 with the introduction into poetry of asymmetric structure, serial=20 techniques, & simultaneity of performance, along with a continuing use=20= of traditional & improvisational methods of composition.=A0All of this=20= has finally brought a recognition by many (Cage among them) of Mac Low=20= as the principal experimental poet of his time... Pierre =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 p.s. note new zip code in snailmail address below: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street=09 Albany NY 12202 =09 h: 518 426 0433 =09 c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 =09= email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:39:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick F Durgin Subject: Hannah Weiner's Early and Clairvoyant Journals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Archive for New Poetry at the University of California at San Diego is pleased to announce the publication of an online edition of performance artist / poet Hannah Weiner's _Early and Clairvoyant Journals_, edited by Patrick F. Durgin. Although long recognized as an influential text, the larger _Clairvoyant Journal_ project has never seen the light of day. This edition includes three of the four early journals (excluding _The Fast_, which remains in print from United Artists). These early journals document the development of Weiner's notion of "clairvoyance" as well as the literary form she became known for in recent memory, "large-sheet poetry" (aka, "clair-style"). The _Clairvoyant Journal_ itself is published in its entirety (181 pages in length). And all the texts are presented as high-quality scans of the original typescripts, giving the reader the opportunity to appreciate the visual impact of "large-sheet poetry." Durgin's critical introduction provides a new contribution to the growing list of writings focusing on the considerable acheivement of Weiner's work in the 1970s. http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/m504/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:09:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Assessment for Azure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Assessment for Azure I won't ever understand the soul. I'll never be comfortable looking in a mirror. I don't comprehend someone who is deeply religious. I'll never see a thylacine. I'll never get to Longyearbyen or Lake Hazen. I won't ever feel adequate. I'll never grow up. I'll never sufficiently learn Chinese or Japanese characters. I'll never have another conversation with Kathy Acker. I won't ever get to know Armand. I'll never feel good enough for you. Good-bye Jackson. I'll never understand the difference between the personal and the theoretical, and between the personal and the political. I'll never have decent eyesight. I can't forego a lifetime of regret. Most of my culture heroes have already died. So long, Heiner. I'll never feel I made a difference, positive or otherwise.. I don't have time to learn accordion. I'll never believe in salvation or an afterlife. I can't stop the nightmares. I'll never get beyond anguish. I'll never see a return to real wilderness and healthy ecosystems. I can't turn back the clock. I'll never stop thinking you're wonderful. I don't have time to learn oboe or shakuhachi properly. There's nothing I can do about my voice. I'm losing energy and will never bike across America. I could never afford plastic surgery. I can't get by my fear of imminent death. I'll never really hike all the way through the Everglades. I won't understand tensor calculus or the details of non-standard analysis. I'll never stop complaining. I won't ever get past my own limited vision of the world. I'll never get my due from Florida International University or the Tasmanian School of Art. I'll never show again at Anthology or in Germany. I'll never feel patriotic. I'll never understand 'collect them all.' I'll never march or protest enough. I won't see Kasper or Andy again. I'll never get a film, video, or writing grant. I'll never feel appreciated by my family. I'll never have another chance to use a scanning electron microscope. I won't live long. I'll never have a really good camcorder again. I'll never get to a top-fuel drag competition. I'll never get to see Korea. I won't ever have the opportunity to buy new technology, or live in comfortable circumstances. I'll never have adequate health care. Good-bye Jacques. I'll never learn cuneiform or any non-Indo-European language really well. I won't walk across America. I'll never have a chance to live in Japan again. I'll never have a band or music group again. I'll never have peace with my father. I won't be visiting Munich or Prague. I'll never make any scientific discovery that might actually be of use to someone. I'll never be invited to speak at Banff or the big legitimizing digital arts venues. I'll never know a computer language really well. I won't get a chance to play Town Hall again. I'll never see the Rapture. I'll never get adequate recompense for my work, at least enough to pay for its production. I'll never understand opera the way I understand divas. Vito, Dan, and I won't ever hang out again. I'll never return to the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design for teaching, critique, and cultural analysis. I'll never see a leftist culture in my lifetime. My work won't ever be shown in a New York gallery. I won't see God. I won't live long enough or be rich enough for genetic medicine to make a difference. I'll never have a part-time or full-time teaching job at a university. It's impossible for me to lose weight or gain muscle, just as it's impossible for me to have a good night's sleep. I won't ever have the comfort in believing in anything. I'll never get to live in Canada. I'll never learn another language adequately. I won't be able to leave you very much when I die. I'll never see most of my film and videowork distributed. I'll never see the Talking Heads again. I'll never go and fight in a war but I'll never know peace. I'll never be given the opportunity starting a show again like the Atlanta Biennale. I'll never stop loving you. I'll never be able to think quickly enough. I'll never edit a magazine again. I'll never finish my 'work.' I won't comprehend that finality is a myth, that totality is suspect, that an absolute is a failure in nerve. I'll never see my mother or my grandparents again. It's impossible for me to ever fully wake up. It's impossible for me to read Husserl's Logical Investigations or Hegel's Phenomenology in their entirety. I'll never feel I can do enough for you or for Joanna. I'll never become a painter or sculptor. I'll never get beyond the 'I' even as I feel totally effaced. I'll never deal successfully with authority. I won't ever completely understand grammatology. _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:17:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Assessment for Azure Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline oh you hopeless romantic! >>> sondheim@PANIX.COM 12/09/04 2:09 PM >>> Assessment for Azure I won't ever understand the soul. I'll never be comfortable looking in a mirror. I don't comprehend someone who is deeply religious. I'll never see a thylacine. I'll never get to Longyearbyen or Lake Hazen. I won't ever feel adequate. I'll never grow up. I'll never sufficiently learn Chinese or Japanese characters. I'll never have another conversation with Kathy Acker. I won't ever get to know Armand. I'll never feel good enough for you. Good-bye Jackson. I'll never understand the difference between the personal and the theoretical, and between the personal and the political. I'll never have decent eyesight. I can't forego a lifetime of regret. Most of my culture heroes have already died. So long, Heiner. I'll never feel I made a difference, positive or otherwise.. I don't have time to learn accordion. I'll never believe in salvation or an afterlife. I can't stop the nightmares. I'll never get beyond anguish. I'll never see a return to real wilderness and healthy ecosystems. I can't turn back the clock. I'll never stop thinking you're wonderful. I don't have time to learn oboe or shakuhachi properly. There's nothing I can do about my voice. I'm losing energy and will never bike across America. I could never afford plastic surgery. I can't get by my fear of imminent death. I'll never really hike all the way through the Everglades. I won't understand tensor calculus or the details of non-standard analysis. I'll never stop complaining. I won't ever get past my own limited vision of the world. I'll never get my due from Florida International University or the Tasmanian School of Art. I'll never show again at Anthology or in Germany. I'll never feel patriotic. I'll never understand 'collect them all.' I'll never march or protest enough. I won't see Kasper or Andy again. I'll never get a film, video, or writing grant. I'll never feel appreciated by my family. I'll never have another chance to use a scanning electron microscope. I won't live long. I'll never have a really good camcorder again. I'll never get to a top-fuel drag competition. I'll never get to see Korea. I won't ever have the opportunity to buy new technology, or live in comfortable circumstances. I'll never have adequate health care. Good-bye Jacques. I'll never learn cuneiform or any non-Indo-European language really well. I won't walk across America. I'll never have a chance to live in Japan again. I'll never have a band or music group again. I'll never have peace with my father. I won't be visiting Munich or Prague. I'll never make any scientific discovery that might actually be of use to someone. I'll never be invited to speak at Banff or the big legitimizing digital arts venues. I'll never know a computer language really well. I won't get a chance to play Town Hall again. I'll never see the Rapture. I'll never get adequate recompense for my work, at least enough to pay for its production. I'll never understand opera the way I understand divas. Vito, Dan, and I won't ever hang out again. I'll never return to the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design for teaching, critique, and cultural analysis. I'll never see a leftist culture in my lifetime. My work won't ever be shown in a New York gallery. I won't see God. I won't live long enough or be rich enough for genetic medicine to make a difference. I'll never have a part-time or full-time teaching job at a university. It's impossible for me to lose weight or gain muscle, just as it's impossible for me to have a good night's sleep. I won't ever have the comfort in believing in anything. I'll never get to live in Canada. I'll never learn another language adequately. I won't be able to leave you very much when I die. I'll never see most of my film and videowork distributed. I'll never see the Talking Heads again. I'll never go and fight in a war but I'll never know peace. I'll never be given the opportunity starting a show again like the Atlanta Biennale. I'll never stop loving you. I'll never be able to think quickly enough. I'll never edit a magazine again. I'll never finish my 'work.' I won't comprehend that finality is a myth, that totality is suspect, that an absolute is a failure in nerve. I'll never see my mother or my grandparents again. It's impossible for me to ever fully wake up. It's impossible for me to read Husserl's Logical Investigations or Hegel's Phenomenology in their entirety. I'll never feel I can do enough for you or for Joanna. I'll never become a painter or sculptor. I'll never get beyond the 'I' even as I feel totally effaced. I'll never deal successfully with authority. I won't ever completely understand grammatology. _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:39:04 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: new piece on rob's blog Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT "some notes on narrative & the long poem: a sequence of sequences" www.robmclennan.blogspot.com -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:00:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <006601c4dddf$6fcf0420$4d2356d2@computer> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> And the left is ugly in this - which is where my anguish comes from. >> The >> left of any sort obviously advocates tolerance, historical analysis in >> depth, sensitivity - with everything except Israel. There are even >> left >> attempts to understand - better, comprehend, El Quaeda and its roots. >> But >> when it comes to Israel, the equation Israel=Jew is made, and both are >> condemned ab nihilo ad nihilo. >> See, this is just the kind of assertion that indicates some kind of loyalty instead of figuring out the world. It is simply not true that the left is soft on all regimes except the Israeli one. The left rose up against Idi Amin, for example. The left was opposed to the apartheid regime in South Africa (though Israel supported it). The left was against the US-aided Pinochet dictatorship in Chile (though its secret police were trained by the Israeli secret police). In most parts of the world the left (and indeed the centre) is against the US imperialism. I have heard remarks such as the one I am referring to here before, and they are as unuseful as saying that to be against the Israeli occupation is to be anti-semitic. But then I have heard Mordechai Richler called an anti-semite by a lot of Montreal Jewish organizations . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:01:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: French Terror Level Comments: To: marcus@designerglass.com In-Reply-To: <41B81AFA.1295.72F743@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Oh, and I suppose that similar anti-French remarks made by Bush's thugs are supposed to be funny too? On 9-Dec-04, at 6:29 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > On 9 Dec 2004 at 13:34, richard.tylr wrote: >> It easy for certain Americans to sneer at the French ( certain >> Americans of a certain quality or lack of any qualities) ... >> Many of the US people - particularly smart woofters like Marcus Balls >> ... >> M Balez forgets ... >> This thing from Marcus Bolles is at the best stupid at the worst sick. > > Humorous poetry is fiction, just like other artistic endeavors, and > uses a wide variety of techniques, including unfair caricature, > exaggeration, even outright falsehoods, to create layers of meaning. > It is as much a mistake to say that this poem, which mocks not merely > the French bureaucracy (and who >invented< bureaucracy, eh?), but the > whole notion of official terror levels, and the deadpan style of news > reportage, to mention a few, is "stupid" or "sick" as it is to say > that the prose stylings of free versists, dressed up in odd > lineations and unwarranted claims, are merely prose stylings dressed > up in odd lineations and unwarranted claims. > > Marcus > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joel Weishaus" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:40 AM >> Subject: Re: French Terror Level >> >> >>> The Germans would have destroyed Paris if the French hadn't >>> surrendered, >> and >>> Paris is an idea that belongs to us all. So we should be thankful >>> that the French were civilized, and they did put together an amazing >>> underground of resistance that helped defeat the Nazis. While the >>> Germans, whose ethos >> was, >>> "Stay the Course," watched their cities being fire-bombed. Long Live >> Paris, >>> the City of Light! >>> >>> -Joel >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "George Bowering" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 12:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: French Terror Level >>> >>> >>>> On 8-Dec-04, at 11:09 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: >>>> >>>>> French Terror Level >>>>> >>>>> The terror level index rose, >>>>> France announced today, >>>>>> From "Run" to "Hide". The index goes >>>>> Up further, spokesmen say, >>>>> >>>>> The third, and next, one is "Surrender", >>>>> And then the final state >>>>> Of being for a French defender >>>>> Is "Collaborate". >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Yeah? Well, they won your so-called >>>> "Revolutionary" war for you. >>>> >>> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:43:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: looking for poets in the following states MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you are a poet in one of the following states please contact me at = walterblue@bigbridge.org. Thanks, Michael Alaska 61% 36% 3 Bush=20 Arkansas 54% 45% 6 Bush=20 Idaho 68% 30% 4 Bush=20 Indiana 60% 39% 11 Bush=20 Iowa 50% 49% 7 Bush=20 Kansas 62% 36% 6 Bush=20 Kentucky 60% 40% 8 Bush=20 Mississippi 60% 40% 6 Bush=20 Missouri 53% 46% 11 Bush=20 Montana 59% 39% 3 Bush=20 Nebraska 66% 33% 5 Bush=20 Nevada 50% 48% 5 Bush=20 Oklahoma 66% 34% 7 Bush=20 South Carolina 58% 41% 8 Bush=20 South Dakota 60% 38% 3 Bush Tennessee 57% 42% 11 Bush Utah 71% 26% 5 Bush=20 Virginia 54% 45% 13 Bush=20 West Virginia 56% 43% 5 Bush=20 Wyoming 69% 29% 3 Bush American Samoa Puerto Rico Northern Marianas Islands Guam ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:50:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: looking for poets in the following states Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 I'm from Italy, but that's green. hey! yellow and blue make green. does tha= t count?! Sorry I'm not a primary color, like the french. or americans. Michael, tell us more about this project... Christophe Casamassima www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:17:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 12/13-1/1/05 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Monday, December 13, 8:00 pm Susan Landers & Brian Strang Susan Landers is the author of 248 mgs., a panic picnic (O Books, 2003) and a co-editor of Pom2. Her recent poems have appeared or are forthcoming in Magazine Cypress, Aufgabe, and Chicago Review. Brian Strang is the author o= f Incretion and machinations, among others, and his recent work can be found in Aufgabe, Ecopoetics, and Volt. He lives in Oakland and teaches English composition at San Francisco State University and Merritt College in Oakland.=20 Wednesday December 15, 8:00 pm Aaron Kunin & Marjorie Welish Aaron Kunin is a poet, critic, and novelist, whose recent work has appeared in No: A Journal of the Arts, The Poker, and The Poetry Project Newsletter. A collection of poems, Folding Ruler Star, is forthcoming from Fence Books, and a prose chapbook, Secret Architecture, is forthcoming from Braincase Press. He lives in Connecticut and teaches 18th-century literature at Wesleyan University. Poet, painter, and critic Marjorie Welish is the autho= r of several books, most recently The Annotated =B3Here=B2 and Selected Poems (an Academy of American Poets Lenore Marshall Prize finalist) and Word Group, both from Coffee House Press. The subject of an all-day conference at the University of Pennsylvania, her writing and art and the responses they inspired have now become a book: Of the Diagram: The Work of Marjorie Welish, published by the Slought Foundation. She has taught at Brown University, The New School University, and at Pratt Institute. In 2005 she will be Judith E. Wilson Poetry Fellow at Cambridge University. AFTER THE HOLIDAYS, GET EXCITED FOR THE 31st Annual New Year=B9s Day Marathon Reading: Saturday, Jan. 1, 2005, 2:00 pm-3:00 am Spend the first day of the New Year with the best of downtown poetry, performance, dance, music, and multimedia, with over 150 performers and readers, including: Rodrigo Toscano, Marcella Durand, Jim Behrle, Aaron Kunin, Maggie Nelson, Todd Colby, Greg Fuchs, Miles Champion, CA Conrad, Laura Elrick, Lee Ann Brown, Edmund Berrigan, Rachel Levitsky, Tom Devaney, Kristin Prevallet, Christopher Stackhouse, Ange Mlinko, Gary Sullivan, Eugene Ostashevksy, Brian Kim Stefans, John Godfrey, Ann Lauterbach, Lenny Kaye, Dael Orlandersmith, Rebecca Moore, Dana Bryant, Elliott Sharp, Robbie McCauley, Tuli Kupferberg, Penny Arcade, Nick Zedd, Jonas Mekas, Eileen Myles, Marc Ribot, Anne Waldman, Douglas Dunn, Willie Perdomo, Cecilia Vicu=F1a, Maggie Estep, Emily XYZ, Erica Hunt, Philip Glass, Reno, Brenda Coultas, Charles Bernstein, John S. Hall, Bob Holman, Steven Taylor, Chris Rael, Tony Towle, Eric Bogosian, Mike Tyler, Taylor Meade, Ed Friedman, Marie Ponsot, and many others! CALL FOR VOLUNTEERS (yes, we still need you!) It=B9s That Time Again! The Poetry Project requests your ever-helpful presence for our 31st Annual New Year=B9s Day Marathon Reading. Activities/stations for volunteers include= : 1. SET-UP=20 2. DOOR=20 3. REFRESHMENTS=20 4. BOOKS=20 5. READER CHECK-IN=20 6. CROWD CONTROL=20 7. CLEAN-UP If you or anyone you know is interested, or for more details, please email info@poetryproject.com with a specified 2-hour time block and station(s) you=B9d like to possibly work. We=B9ll be hopping from 2 p.m. to approx. 3 a.m. this year. We look forward to hearing from you and expect the event to be the best New Year=B9s Day 2005 you=B9ll ever have. The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:24:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Majzels Subject: everyday terror Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed L'Israel n'est pas en Israel. We are all each other's Messiah. Robert Majzels ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 23:37:53 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Assessment for Azure In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ah, listen to who is speaking! On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:17:41 -0500, Mairead Byrne wrote: > oh you hopeless romantic! > > >>> sondheim@PANIX.COM 12/09/04 2:09 PM >>> > > > Assessment for Azure > > I won't ever understand the soul. > I'll never be comfortable looking in a mirror. > I don't comprehend someone who is deeply religious. > I'll never see a thylacine. > I'll never get to Longyearbyen or Lake Hazen. > I won't ever feel adequate. > I'll never grow up. > I'll never sufficiently learn Chinese or Japanese characters. > I'll never have another conversation with Kathy Acker. > I won't ever get to know Armand. > I'll never feel good enough for you. > Good-bye Jackson. > I'll never understand the difference between the personal and the > theoretical, and between the personal and the political. > I'll never have decent eyesight. > I can't forego a lifetime of regret. > Most of my culture heroes have already died. > So long, Heiner. > I'll never feel I made a difference, positive or otherwise.. > I don't have time to learn accordion. > I'll never believe in salvation or an afterlife. > I can't stop the nightmares. > I'll never get beyond anguish. > I'll never see a return to real wilderness and healthy ecosystems. > I can't turn back the clock. > I'll never stop thinking you're wonderful. > I don't have time to learn oboe or shakuhachi properly. > There's nothing I can do about my voice. > I'm losing energy and will never bike across America. > I could never afford plastic surgery. > I can't get by my fear of imminent death. > I'll never really hike all the way through the Everglades. > I won't understand tensor calculus or the details of non-standard > analysis. > I'll never stop complaining. > I won't ever get past my own limited vision of the world. > I'll never get my due from Florida International University or the > Tasmanian School of Art. > I'll never show again at Anthology or in Germany. > I'll never feel patriotic. > I'll never understand 'collect them all.' > I'll never march or protest enough. > I won't see Kasper or Andy again. > I'll never get a film, video, or writing grant. > I'll never feel appreciated by my family. > I'll never have another chance to use a scanning electron microscope. > I won't live long. > I'll never have a really good camcorder again. > I'll never get to a top-fuel drag competition. > I'll never get to see Korea. > I won't ever have the opportunity to buy new technology, or live in > comfortable circumstances. > I'll never have adequate health care. > Good-bye Jacques. > I'll never learn cuneiform or any non-Indo-European language really > well. > I won't walk across America. > I'll never have a chance to live in Japan again. > I'll never have a band or music group again. > I'll never have peace with my father. > I won't be visiting Munich or Prague. > I'll never make any scientific discovery that might actually be of use > to > someone. > I'll never be invited to speak at Banff or the big legitimizing digital > arts venues. > I'll never know a computer language really well. > I won't get a chance to play Town Hall again. > I'll never see the Rapture. > I'll never get adequate recompense for my work, at least enough to pay > for > its production. > I'll never understand opera the way I understand divas. > Vito, Dan, and I won't ever hang out again. > I'll never return to the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design for > teaching, critique, and cultural analysis. > I'll never see a leftist culture in my lifetime. > My work won't ever be shown in a New York gallery. > I won't see God. > I won't live long enough or be rich enough for genetic medicine to make > a > difference. > I'll never have a part-time or full-time teaching job at a university. > It's impossible for me to lose weight or gain muscle, just as it's > impossible for me to have a good night's sleep. > I won't ever have the comfort in believing in anything. > I'll never get to live in Canada. > I'll never learn another language adequately. > I won't be able to leave you very much when I die. > I'll never see most of my film and videowork distributed. > I'll never see the Talking Heads again. > I'll never go and fight in a war but I'll never know peace. > I'll never be given the opportunity starting a show again like the > Atlanta > Biennale. > I'll never stop loving you. > I'll never be able to think quickly enough. > I'll never edit a magazine again. > I'll never finish my 'work.' > I won't comprehend that finality is a myth, that totality is suspect, > that > an absolute is a failure in nerve. > I'll never see my mother or my grandparents again. > It's impossible for me to ever fully wake up. > It's impossible for me to read Husserl's Logical Investigations or > Hegel's > Phenomenology in their entirety. > I'll never feel I can do enough for you or for Joanna. > I'll never become a painter or sculptor. > I'll never get beyond the 'I' even as I feel totally effaced. > I'll never deal successfully with authority. > I won't ever completely understand grammatology. > > _ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:13:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Assessment for Azure Comments: To: Anny Ballardini In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70412091437198f685e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii dear me, i should think if one understood grammatology, then one should by definition not understand it? or am I thinking of Leonard Koan? basically, girl, you just too hard on yourself. and the drinks at Banff are pathetic. Anny Ballardini wrote: ah, listen to who is speaking! On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:17:41 -0500, Mairead Byrne wrote: > oh you hopeless romantic! > > >>> sondheim@PANIX.COM 12/09/04 2:09 PM >>> > > > Assessment for Azure > > I won't ever understand the soul. > I'll never be comfortable looking in a mirror. > I don't comprehend someone who is deeply religious. > I'll never see a thylacine. > I'll never get to Longyearbyen or Lake Hazen. > I won't ever feel adequate. > I'll never grow up. > I'll never sufficiently learn Chinese or Japanese characters. > I'll never have another conversation with Kathy Acker. > I won't ever get to know Armand. > I'll never feel good enough for you. > Good-bye Jackson. > I'll never understand the difference between the personal and the > theoretical, and between the personal and the political. > I'll never have decent eyesight. > I can't forego a lifetime of regret. > Most of my culture heroes have already died. > So long, Heiner. > I'll never feel I made a difference, positive or otherwise.. > I don't have time to learn accordion. > I'll never believe in salvation or an afterlife. > I can't stop the nightmares. > I'll never get beyond anguish. > I'll never see a return to real wilderness and healthy ecosystems. > I can't turn back the clock. > I'll never stop thinking you're wonderful. > I don't have time to learn oboe or shakuhachi properly. > There's nothing I can do about my voice. > I'm losing energy and will never bike across America. > I could never afford plastic surgery. > I can't get by my fear of imminent death. > I'll never really hike all the way through the Everglades. > I won't understand tensor calculus or the details of non-standard > analysis. > I'll never stop complaining. > I won't ever get past my own limited vision of the world. > I'll never get my due from Florida International University or the > Tasmanian School of Art. > I'll never show again at Anthology or in Germany. > I'll never feel patriotic. > I'll never understand 'collect them all.' > I'll never march or protest enough. > I won't see Kasper or Andy again. > I'll never get a film, video, or writing grant. > I'll never feel appreciated by my family. > I'll never have another chance to use a scanning electron microscope. > I won't live long. > I'll never have a really good camcorder again. > I'll never get to a top-fuel drag competition. > I'll never get to see Korea. > I won't ever have the opportunity to buy new technology, or live in > comfortable circumstances. > I'll never have adequate health care. > Good-bye Jacques. > I'll never learn cuneiform or any non-Indo-European language really > well. > I won't walk across America. > I'll never have a chance to live in Japan again. > I'll never have a band or music group again. > I'll never have peace with my father. > I won't be visiting Munich or Prague. > I'll never make any scientific discovery that might actually be of use > to > someone. > I'll never be invited to speak at Banff or the big legitimizing digital > arts venues. > I'll never know a computer language really well. > I won't get a chance to play Town Hall again. > I'll never see the Rapture. > I'll never get adequate recompense for my work, at least enough to pay > for > its production. > I'll never understand opera the way I understand divas. > Vito, Dan, and I won't ever hang out again. > I'll never return to the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design for > teaching, critique, and cultural analysis. > I'll never see a leftist culture in my lifetime. > My work won't ever be shown in a New York gallery. > I won't see God. > I won't live long enough or be rich enough for genetic medicine to make > a > difference. > I'll never have a part-time or full-time teaching job at a university. > It's impossible for me to lose weight or gain muscle, just as it's > impossible for me to have a good night's sleep. > I won't ever have the comfort in believing in anything. > I'll never get to live in Canada. > I'll never learn another language adequately. > I won't be able to leave you very much when I die. > I'll never see most of my film and videowork distributed. > I'll never see the Talking Heads again. > I'll never go and fight in a war but I'll never know peace. > I'll never be given the opportunity starting a show again like the > Atlanta > Biennale. > I'll never stop loving you. > I'll never be able to think quickly enough. > I'll never edit a magazine again. > I'll never finish my 'work.' > I won't comprehend that finality is a myth, that totality is suspect, > that > an absolute is a failure in nerve. > I'll never see my mother or my grandparents again. > It's impossible for me to ever fully wake up. > It's impossible for me to read Husserl's Logical Investigations or > Hegel's > Phenomenology in their entirety. > I'll never feel I can do enough for you or for Joanna. > I'll never become a painter or sculptor. > I'll never get beyond the 'I' even as I feel totally effaced. > I'll never deal successfully with authority. > I won't ever completely understand grammatology. > > _ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 18:51:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Murray, Christine" Subject: Canadian Court Approves Same-Sex Marriage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Another good reason to go to Canada... =20 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory&cid=3D514&e=3D3&u=3D/ap/200= 41209/ap_on_re_ca/canada_same_sex_marriage_1 =20 Great news--it appears a lot of hard work by activists is paying = off--congratulations! =20 =20 =20 =20 Best Wishes, =20 Chris Murray http://texfiles.blogspot.com http://e-po.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:01:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Murray, Christine" Subject: Re: Canadian Court Approves Same-Sex Marriage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Yahoo link doesn't seem to work, so try this one instead: =20 http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1102592743862_17?hub=3D= Canada =20 =20 =20 cm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:21:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Poems by others: RIP Jackson Mac Low (1922-2004) "RadioTurnbuckle" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Radio Turnbuckle Destiny twinned and paid therapeutic counselors like a human being getting better and doesn't bind people or make them clean toilets. Very few people are free and when one of them gets you you can look at it this way somewhat. His religion is not taken away from him and he's given financial help until just before the beginning of the religion. He did know him and taught him how to drive. They still held their jobs. And never went back. They wouldn't allow them radios and precipitated a great to-do, aware of the real problems. Do you remember that? He'd had a lobotomy and were worth their weight in gold and three meals a day, exactly how they were used. Es- pecially. I was teaching them how to live and were faced with being sterilized, hopelessly crippled, a clock hung around your neck. See it. You were in perpetual humiliation all the time, how he would ask astute questions. He was never attacked, benevolent and all that great. His clay feet triumphed all the time. Regardless of whether your column is syndicated, exclusively written and very good to talk to where there's self-interest at work, you have to look at those things. An interesting thing is happening and did not survive forced changing and transferring. Liable for the defendant's costs, amongst the papers, designed to cost money, and will constantly keep under threat, he had a very interesting career. You'll have to bear some of the costs. He was treated with kid gloves. Afraid of the legend, he went to incorporate, allegedly high-class and all in capital letters. Who had the snake? He's out of there now. Did they escape? They still had a large facility. They considered him a martyr and lost that one. He may well yet. He's been sent and it really doesn't matter. I'll put it this way to mobilize all the members against one another. They begin to ferret out the most effective form of mind control, baring your soul and its gets very aggressive. They enjoy intimacy and everybody gets a turn. I managed to slide and was just in for the darlingness at a weak moment in a part of the whole process. This is very rough. It's so hard and all-encompassing. Engineered to a degree, they left. They had to go on and went through a stage. We do this and then after that they forget it. You find out shortly afterward. No, I haven't. I've seen so many people absorbed and they gave remarkably convincing speeches to try that first. They tend toward that sort of thing, refilled with the good stuff and real informed decisions, very involved with all sorts of symbols. Going through a ritual again and again, they learned their therapeutics. He remains permanently and they go there. They are made dependent. I know someone. I know several people who fall down a big step forward. It makes participation more exciting. There's no such thing as an in-between if it's all involved with poison. Everybody else was quoted. They were battling Satan. A relation would never go into any details. You move up first. It's what you know and it is very hard for them. Your whole life is a problem. A thrill from Christian Scientists can tell you one experience if you leave it alone. I just can't. It's really fine. If you are exactly the same, can I say the one thing I'll be back to in a little while? I wouldn't be thinking about it. Where is it coming from? Body and soul have no foundation and have tumbled from of old. When you take up the exact wording, more will be seen. They talked about it and were lonesome 22 June 1982 New York --Jackson Mac Low fr. *Bloomsday* [Barrytown, NY: Station Hill, 1984] Hal Halvard Johnson ============ email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 18:40:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Being Jewish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard, This is a lot for me to take in. What I can say is that with my Jewish = heritage I still look at other Jewish groups like any group (like the = language poets group) as almost un-Jewish. It's like taking something to = an extreme annhilates its substance. The non-religious Zionists I have = lived with and the ultra-orthodox Chassidics I have lived with are = Jewish people who have turned Judaism into a separatist group. So they stand apart from other Jews. Like Language poets stand apart = from other poets. You are either with them or against them. This is what starts wars. Someone has to be right. There is no compromise. Someone has to win. Then you have clerics who perpetuate the separatism, like language poet = critics with blogs. This is the poison, the partisan, separatist behavior. It's always like this. And it's based on the fear of surrendering your self-will to a higher = power. The religious clerics and the language poet blog critics try to = appropriate the higher power into their self, thus becoming a dogmatic = leader with a fanatical herd-consciousness group of followers who are = too afraid to trust in themselves and need to give away their power and = trust in an authority figure. It's interesting to me how we are talking about poetry and being Jewish. = And the parallels between Zionists, Ultraorthodox Jews and Language = Poets. It's also interesting that the behavior of language poet leaders = is not unlike the behavior of the leaders of the state of Israel.=20 It's interesting, and it's not surprising at all because this is human = nature. To be devisive, to carve out a small territory and defend it = against outsiders, or terrorists. In the case of Israelies, they are holding onto land that belongs to = everyone. Americans do not share "our" land with Native Americans who = are a "sub-class" of human beings. And Israel does not share "their" = land with the "sub-human" Palestinians. It reminds me also of the MAG and how (when I was still involved in the = daily operation of it) groups of poets would be offended when I would = publish the work of poets from different groups in the same issue. Or = poets who were indendent and unaffilated. It's all about people being the same on a basic level, which is a simple = fact. But how this simple fact is denied out of fear, and thus groups, = sects, cells, bands - call it what you will - form and battle with each = other, over who is right and who is wrong. August --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:28:22 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: It's Time To Try Something Different MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35480.php It's Time To Try Something Different Insanity is doing the same thing over and over with the same people expecting things to turn out differently. By that reckoning, we are truly insane. We have been attempting to convert Euro-AmeriKKKans since we arrived on these shores. We have tried moralizing them despite their obvious immorality, we have attempted (just as abuse and incest victims do) to defend our tormenters in the false hope they will cease abusing us or lighten their maltreatment. It has not worked....So how do we save ourselves? We must first admit we are at war, admit who our enemies are and act accordingly. ubPOSITIVELY BLACK Junious Ricardo Stanton It's Time To Try Something Different The masses of Africans in AmeriKKKa appear to be so lobotomized and demoralized there is no longer talk about challenging the white supremacist hegemonic status quo. The only activity seems to be begging for acceptance, validation or to be left alone by the very people who have engaged in systemic trans-generational violence, disenfranchisement and animus against our ancestors and us. Africans have had "leaders/spokespersons" foisted upon us who rarely challenge the status quo beyond superficial reformist activities. The conditions under which most Africans in AmeriKKKa labor have not improved significantly since the Civil Rights era. While the Voting Rights Act of 1964 did give blacks the right to vote in the South and has resulted in record numbers of black elected office holders, the institutional racism existent within the broader psycho-socio-economic milieu has not been ameliorated. For example the overall health of the African community is in crisis. We suffer disproportionately from conditions such as clinical depression, diabetes, cancers, hypertension, AIDS, fibroid tumors in women and a myriad of autogenic (generated from within ourselves) and environmentally induced diseases. Despite numerous political gains, black politicians have been unable to halt or dismantle the environmental racism plaguing the black community. With regard to the law, the courts, local, state and federal remain adversarial to the interests of black people. More Africans are incarcerated and more are increasingly likely to be arrested, convicted and incarcerated than their Euro-American counterparts. Financially a recent report showed the wealth gap between whites and people of color has widened tremendously during the Bush administration. Assessing the landscape we are in deep trouble. You are probably saying, "tell me something I don't already know". In order to heal, one must first admit one is ill or suffering. We seem to be trying to anesthetize ourselves from our reality through substance use/abuse and escapist activities. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over with the same people expecting things to turn out differently. By that reckoning, we are truly insane. We have been attempting to convert Euro-AmeriKKKans since we arrived on these shores. We have tried moralizing them despite their obvious immorality, we have attempted (just as abuse and incest victims do) to defend our tormenters in the false hope they will cease abusing us or lighten their maltreatment. It has not worked. We have attempted to champion their system of economics and government, remember when Black Capitalism was the vogue? Some even bought into Marxism and the pipe dream of a workers revolution. AmeriKKKan history is replete with examples of trans-racial populous movements that were ultimately sabotaged when the plutocrats played their omnipresent racial trump card. So how do we save ourselves? We must first admit we are at war, admit who our enemies are and act accordingly. We are out manned and outgunned so we must use guile, cunning and formulate tactics that create an infrastructure for ethnocentric survival and transformation. Our short term goal is to make sure we stay healthy and alive. We have to educate ourselves about proper nutrition, develop psychological coping skills to effectively navigate this hostile cultural terrain and build institutions and systems that will strengthen and empower us psychologically, socially, economically and politically. This is nothing new, Pap Singleton, Marcus Garvey Noble Drew Ali and Elijah Muhammad showed us how to do this. We have to pick up the baton and continue running the ethnocentric race. We have to restore the family as the primary socialization mechanism. We must use the stable family (no matter the form the operative word here is stable) as the psychological base and economic hub to teach thrift and cooperative economics by starting savings clubs, credit unions and food co-ops for our families and neighborhoods. We must support organizations like the Black Farmers and Agriculturalists Association who have our best interests at heart. In short we must take a proactive, ethnocentric approach rather than maintain our present pathological exocentric, dependent/subservient condition. It will take a different approach, doing things differently and using our minds in a whole new way. This is the broad scope; how it will look or work in your family, neighborhood and region is up to you to decide. If we want things to be different tomorrow than they were yesterday, we will have to do something different today. -30- Amir Sulaiman -- Free downloads: http://www.amirsulaiman.com/ U.S. Turns Fallujah into a Huge Concentration Camp: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35511.php Of murder and a friend... http://indymedia.existere.com/newswire/display_any/21 Naj.One: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/34466.php WAR: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/34527.php 'Unner Stated', by Hurricane Angel w/ Lord Patch: http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8 Israeli soldiers shoot boy for fun http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35482.php Revolution: http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 05:35:58 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: "C.D." Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am sure that Genet was well aware of the nunance between anti-arabism and anti-semitism. He pointed out in an essay written in 1970 that Europeans became anti-Arab at just around the time the Jews no longer lived in Europe. As they had before the Shoah. How simple and convenient for Europeans to switch their hatred to another group of outsiders who are a Semitic people. One has to add that Genet wrote those words after witnessing first hand the horrors that the Tshal had inflicted either directly or indirectly on Palestinians and other Arabs. The late Edward Said writes that being antiSemitic and antiArab amouts to pretty much the same thing. The paranoia toward others is always the fuel on which racism and hatred are built. Genet of course, speaking as one who loves the Palestinians is the first to admit (in Prisoner of Love his last work) that his point of view arises out of the blindness of his love, and his identification with the Palestinains as a landless people. Or in DeleuzoGuattarian terms, as a people who were literally deterritorialized to become the new Jews of the Levant. As one Palestinian man tells an American Palestinian who is visiting Jerusalem, "Go to Gaza the Bride of the Arabs, See , see what the children of the victims of the Nazis are doing." Blood spilled on both sides day and night decade after decade the cry of Empire in their skulls One thinks of Rachel Corrie and others who cross the line to change real circumstances, or Amira Hass who lives in the West Bank daring to do what few Isarelis doing and writing as she does, and other decent Israelis who seek, like their fellow Palestians only a space for themselves to live their lives. So these harbingers of peace, and justice, courage and ethical conduct inspire hope for life and not death . Decent men and women from both communties seeka vocabulary of peace, One thinks of the late Faisal Husseini and others so many unknown teenagers standing strong against tanks and jets, and drones, bombs, decades of defeat, and destruction.Edward Said's son working as a human rights lawyer and so many others, so many Palestines in so many days. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>"Very smart of Israel to carry the war right into the heart of vocabulary..." --Jean Genet<< --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:34:46 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Being Jewish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit August I can see the parallels but I dont think that the langauge poets - or the situation of them is as drastic (but in gerneral it is true tat the poetry world kind of fragments into groups - and I am in a smallish group (perhaps not correct to say I am in a group like being in a club but I am of a few peopel who are friends but that group of us isnt very large) here of writers who - actually the original group were "followers" of Alan Loney and he was in turn influenced by Olson and Creeley and to some extent the language poets - the situation is complex - but always - as my friends the poet (Leicester Kyle ) says-- there are always gate keepers - wherever you go. Thus he self publishes his various projects but he knows that he has to enter the round and sends stuff of to various mags (as well) - I kind of "roll with punches" (but I dont send much out at the moment -and busy trying to make money etc - but personally I learnt alot from thealnguage poest and still do -butkeep my options open - the Mag that just published me (Brief) accepts fairly wide style of stuff: but trys to be - what - innovative I suppose. I accept that their arre various religious and racial groups and so on - I personally am an individualist quasi-Marxist - Marxism in small doses I find useful but its only one idea. Although I have no religion - have never really been to a church (unless for funerals etc) - I beleive there has to be some meaning or something out there so to speak or in all things - I like Wordsworth's ideas on that - his poems. Of course I like many other poets of many kinds and styles..shy away from being too much in any camp myself... I dont worry about the Langpos they are not all that hegemonic: and theya nd htsoe influeced by them have onde some incredible sytuff - tat said there are oter ideas going on - Alan eg lies somewhere in between - somewhere!! Cheers. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "August" To: Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:40 PM Subject: Re: Being Jewish Richard, This is a lot for me to take in. What I can say is that with my Jewish heritage I still look at other Jewish groups like any group (like the language poets group) as almost un-Jewish. It's like taking something to an extreme annhilates its substance. The non-religious Zionists I have lived with and the ultra-orthodox Chassidics I have lived with are Jewish people who have turned Judaism into a separatist group. So they stand apart from other Jews. Like Language poets stand apart from other poets. You are either with them or against them. This is what starts wars. Someone has to be right. There is no compromise. Someone has to win. Then you have clerics who perpetuate the separatism, like language poet critics with blogs. This is the poison, the partisan, separatist behavior. It's always like this. And it's based on the fear of surrendering your self-will to a higher power. The religious clerics and the language poet blog critics try to appropriate the higher power into their self, thus becoming a dogmatic leader with a fanatical herd-consciousness group of followers who are too afraid to trust in themselves and need to give away their power and trust in an authority figure. It's interesting to me how we are talking about poetry and being Jewish. And the parallels between Zionists, Ultraorthodox Jews and Language Poets. It's also interesting that the behavior of language poet leaders is not unlike the behavior of the leaders of the state of Israel. It's interesting, and it's not surprising at all because this is human nature. To be devisive, to carve out a small territory and defend it against outsiders, or terrorists. In the case of Israelies, they are holding onto land that belongs to everyone. Americans do not share "our" land with Native Americans who are a "sub-class" of human beings. And Israel does not share "their" land with the "sub-human" Palestinians. It reminds me also of the MAG and how (when I was still involved in the daily operation of it) groups of poets would be offended when I would publish the work of poets from different groups in the same issue. Or poets who were indendent and unaffilated. It's all about people being the same on a basic level, which is a simple fact. But how this simple fact is denied out of fear, and thus groups, sects, cells, bands - call it what you will - form and battle with each other, over who is right and who is wrong. August --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 02:14:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Being Jewish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit idiocy that's what sets language poets apart from other poets jewmania wrestlemania give it a rest i'm a jew i'm not jewish wish i was somethin else... as you wish if i only had a brain if i only had a heart if i only had just one hr to live not one minute more.................... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:31:11 +0100 Reply-To: Malcolm Davidson Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Malcolm Davidson Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) In-Reply-To: <-2797107683670250435@unknownmsgid> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For a list I thought was about poetry, there's an awful lot of talk about politics here. When your discussion becomes more politics than poetics, isn't it time to take your discussion elsewhere? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:42:47 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Every Day Jewish.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If ISRAEL didn't exist...this discussion would prove its need to...and in case you're waiting for someone to dot the i...yes, YOU'RE anti- semitic... this ranges from isaq & derek's straight up Jules Streicher type...THE JEWS.. to Steve's...dumb blond me-too anarchism...they should have a state in fl...to the most typical Haas Bianchi reduction in one paragraph of the issue..complete with his one JEW ancestor and his patronizing acceptance of the right of Israel to exist... If we run the history of Pakistan thru the same wringer...insistence of a minority to a state.. the flight of refugees.. the swap of populations.. the killings of 100,000's of people on both sides.. the total eradication of all hindus in Pak..the awkward geographical arrangement...the 3 conventional wars... which killed many more people than the 3 Israeli- Arab wars...etc etc..why shoud Pak exist... If we add the use of violence that is acceptable...black power.. enviornmentalism...trans- genderism..anti-colonialism.. anti-warism...by any means necessary ism...the Israelis have shown remarkable restraint..not only in the face of remoseless Arab violence...but by the violence of the peace movement.. anti-semitism..is an obsession with Jews and things Jewish...dispraportianate to the subject itself...why is this discussion on a Poetics list board in the first place... edward said..knew the loathing & fears of left academic..he knew their fears and their small hopes.. he knew how to pander..he was a genius...for he grew up in a closed claustraphobic society where power was disquised by language....he succeeded in changing the discussion from one about the world..to one about language... in the west bank..the settlers are celebrating Chanukah.. light to light..l'chaim... Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:50:00 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: the Poets' Corner Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dearest All, =20 =20 =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0 with a long red Xmas Ribbon the Poets' Corner's update this time opens with a wonderful poem by Joanna Boutler filed under the section dedicated to our _Father(s)_: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D884 =20 =20 =20 A Present For Daddy =20 =20 When I was a little girl my father had a pipe and the tune it played was Gallagher's Rubbed-Out Rich Dark Honeydew. At nearly-Christmas every year we'd go with our mother to the small brown shop with the bright glass cabinets and dark wood counter where the air smelled of honey with liquorice breath, and we'd say very carefully - If you please we want Gallagher's Rubbed-Out Rich Dark Honeydew. And all Christmas long that rich brown scent would mingle with the smells of turkey and pudding and our noses would be joyful too. When I was a little girl my father had a pipe and the tune it played was Gallagher's Rubbed-Out Rich Dark Honeydew. =A9 Joanna Boulter http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D94 =20 =20 and one by Sharon Brogan on Winter: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D885 =20 =20 Winter is hazardous. The world around my house is a sheet of ice, scattered with thin, dry snow. Windows bloom with frost, birch branches bare on the other side. I stay indoors, still stiff and sore from a fall two days ago. The dogs beg for a walk; they will not have one. Yesterday, the river complained, groaning beneath its ice-spotted skin. Ducks huddled together on stones above the surface. even the moon a shard of ice -- =A9 Sharon Brogan http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D99 =20 =20 =20 Here are the new featured Poets: =20 Barry Schwabsky http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D139 =20 Andrew Lundwall http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D140 =20 Patrick Herron http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D141 =20 Pierre Joris http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D142 =20 Kent Johnson http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D143 =20 Peter Philpott http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D144 =20 Lance Phillips http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D145 =20 Susan M. Schultz http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D146 =20 Sheila E. Murphy http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D147 =20 =20 =20 =20 Alan Sondheim with various incredible contributions, =20 Hollowed http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D839 =20 VOTE NEW YORK!!! http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D840 =20 char the task of scribe http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D846 =20 ah/768 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D863 =20 once it happened it was everywhere http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D864 =20 For Iris Chang http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D865 =20 THE HAMMER http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D868 =20 less and less seems to matter and it's good i'm not http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D870 =20 Assessment for Azure http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D886 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 I changed the title _Quotations_ on the main index into _New Poetry Mailing List_ and opened a page with: Selections from... and three contributions I chose from the posts to the New Poetry Mailing List by James Finnegan: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D841 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Douglas Clark and his indefatigable wonderful narration: =20 The Mong http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D866 =20 Hulagu's Ride http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D867 =20 Morning http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D869 =20 =20 =20 =20 I finally translated some poems by Arni Ibsen into Italian with my best wish for a soon and safe recovery: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D871 =20 =20 =20 =20 Here you can find the main index: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent =20 I agree with Ron Silliman's comment when he says that some anthologies are disparate, this collection might also seem to you but _believe it or not_ I greatly value those who are present on the Poets' Corner and I wish them the success they deserve, =20 and hopefully I didn't forget anything or anybody.=20 =20 Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com=20 http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admire= rs. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:56:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) Comments: To: Malcolm Davidson In-Reply-To: <3dfe8323041209233145ff723e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Yes. The problem is that there has always been a 'Jewish Question' - you find it explicitly in Marx, Dostoevsky, all through the nineteenth and twentieth centuries - to the extent that Lyotard, Levinas, Blanchot, Derrida - it con/figures in all of them. When I was living in Montreal 1980 - during the referendum - there it was again. Zola counters Dreyfuss, and in one way or another it's central to Pound, Wells, Orwell, Eliot, WCW, a host of non-Jewish writers; Kristeva takes it up as well. For some of us, at least for me, many of these writers are primary sources. There's also the problematic of Kerouac and Jones' attitudes re: the beats - in relation to Ginsberg. Over and over again. It's an aporia that in a very deep way has nothing to do with Israel. 'Jew' is highly overdetermined. So it makes sense to discuss it here - but I don't think the discussion has been particularly fruitful - if at all. On one hand there are daily politics - on the other there are the deeper undercurrents, as well as Sartre's notion that if the Jew didn't exist, he'd have to be invented. Sartre's book itself is a painful read. Gilman in jewish Self-Hatred untangles a lot of this. It's necessary to look at it again - for example Damon on Gertrude Stein. All of which is of little comfort - as is the fact that so many 'thinkers' of the last two centuries (Wittgenstein, Levi-Strauss, Derrida, Freud, Marx, Einstein, etc.) have been partially-assimilated Jews with difficult relationships both to Judaism and Europe. All these interrelations are discussed somewhat in an odd book by Cuddihy, years ago, The Ordeal of Civility. I know I continue to draw from the work, even though I haven't read it in a while. So I think this issue _is_ central to at least some literature and some theory - but I would hope for a very different kind of discussion - one not going on about what I still see as the stupidity as equating jews with israel with zionism with whatever. That's like equating Jimmy Breslin with the Pope - as far as I'm concerned, a derailing. The rest, the other questions, continue to fascinate and hold me, which is why, yet again, I'm reading job - an incredibly complex palimpsest that doesn't resolve at all the way I 'remembered' it. - Alan On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Malcolm Davidson wrote: > For a list I thought was about poetry, there's an awful lot of talk > about politics here. When your discussion becomes more politics than > poetics, isn't it time to take your discussion elsewhere? > http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:59:22 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Autumn....for J.M... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit light to light reel to reel alaaaaaarm alaaaaaarm alaaaaaarm alaaaaaarm light to light reel to reel clock clock wake up sleep.... middle of the nite...towards Hebron..drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 01:19:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: The Book of Brueckl Part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Book of Brueckl Part 2 reassembled heads circulating around the savage robin's egg blue sky: tattered flashes: Simultaneously sutured sparks cleave sieved, not at all: falsetto shadows liquefied, flattened out--joyousness subtracted: it is eaten: scathes: chasms of Jesse, gradual green atrocities sharply melting madrigals: flames of eternity's cells stoking the unreal: outside, the boneyard dew: Imprinted, foreshadowed, decaying in the rut uncurls, apparently subcutaneous in collusion with an apparent interruption, leaning on the resemblance, the footstools of the text, the apotheosis of sounds, the grinding cavity, the root of radioactive words of morning's bedewed pistache, nestled pallor, compressed circumstances in solitude, heaving vulgarly: disclosed differences between repeated hoarding stuns resemblances, unimaginable words' hard glow, never insolvent, always wafting aeration: here, blurred, striated: to afflictions of impure identity of a pale footnote to the periphery of a bride's hourglass: disjointed autumn's sticky colors, precisely quiet, soiled blond ink: Hole artifice, reassembled heads circulating around ruptured acolytes milking arpeggios, barely dusk in the length and fro, synthetic branches of night transcend the outrages of love: felt odor's chilly omission, very nearly this difference between breaths, raveling speech stranded inside the reluctance of possessiveness inflicted on the beyond: bluntly belied, stirring: imbibe: elbow murmur, insect twine braided under the rim of pleasure fatigued, the footstools of memory discern your wrist: it is: no one can be thistle protuberances, sawdust of night's nest, edible routed ear, neck signature dinged and relighted impatiently, dead paradise's arc doomed: can see: it was in this is never, I peed some icky stuff on sheaves of abating mud: perpendicular, disjunction flesh: they came with the savage robin's egg blue slanting softness, demented, a gaggle of breath fiercely glimpsed, displaced not that reeks of joy, swerving moments transcended, gradually diminished: ah, wounds glowing, trickling sludge, starlight's instants in denial, induced stares lightening desire: pentagonal tongue collapsing: repeated hoarding stuns resemblances, unimaginable words' bosoms' bones, diminishing gradually diminished: ah, wounds glowing, trickling in, musky: abandoned faucet: immense, whenever it can be: not to the skin of shrunken tenses, betrayed handwriting of radioactive words of malversation: will they came with disgust along the felt odor's chilly omission, very lonely: cursive stuff on the corrosive hours, brittle pretexts bickering: I, too, debilitated: intense sheer lines leap: wrinkled mechanisms attaching themselves to be there hourly, naturally stripped in adoration, coming from the instant is disturbed, retracted, tainted, inversely multicolored, exposed: a wet arrangement, plainly buffeted crevices, embellished parentheses, plain forgetfulness: Dourness tinkles, affected by it: asking not at all: it can see: it could be opposed to tutelary irises, speechless as it is an apparent interruption, leaning on codicils beforehand: muffled compunction: what about it: asking not there: perquisite eucalyptus, magnolia, raffia, ilex, berry, aigrette, pheasant feathers, shimmery butchery, barbed mish-mash within the nakedness of wounds, hollow gloss of radioactive words contaminated: crimson nails' defunct glowing, trickling sludge, starlight's instants in this voice perfectly pulsating and perpendicular bosom, spirals' pangs, listening seeds: dead ache seen as it could be not to and emptiness suffocating while disadumbrating the impure identity of wet light: shrinking subterfuge, leaping off branches bending low dosages of tangled flaws' germination drainage, corpses of aloes arising: squandered stag rusted hollow, nuanced, tilted down, grasping, curling: welded drone receding, lilacs in a jagged meadow thirsting for confetti, the curving seizure of trickling sludge, starlight's instants in tattered breath trajectories hardened particularly to see the corrosive hours, brittle pretexts bickering: I, too, dislike Satan's semen: blushing shoals leaning on the square root of stinking whispers puffing, ulcered, coming to difficult eruptions, only hollow rectilinear arrowheads under the spacious factory, in collusion with kisses: sullen diamonds winking, smeared spatters renamed light sign of being cautiously questioned, quietly winking auscultation: salubrious bib of the damp antennae eluding the throbbing disturbances of malversation: will they know peeling window panes, starlights' mnemonic blooms: the quarry of gravity: when rambling brackets of monotony swells like vocabulary, coalesced turd colorings signature: voiceless sap dust oozing indistinctly, and breadth of unmeaning numbers often limpid, very comfortingly unintelligible: which is disturbed, retracted, tainted, inversely multicolored, exposed: a bride's hourglass: disjointed autumn's sticky colors, precisely quiet, soiled blond ink: Hole artifice, reassembled heads circulating around ruptured acolytes milking arpeggios, barely a jagged meadow thirsting for confetti, the core, aghast: branches of antiquity, revealing lead pencils shedding angles, oftener sublime light's thicket, the visual work of August Highland is at the www.august-highland.com online studio the literary work of August Highland is at the www.litob.com project center all media projects of August Highland are at the www.cultureanimal.com global headquarters the international literary journal, the MAG, published by August = Highland is at the www.muse-apprentice-guild.com website where submissions = guidelines for poetry and fiction and deadline information can be found --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 01:20:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is an interesting question. What is the difference between poety and politics? I am aware that beneath every literary work I produce their exists a = political motive. So maybe you might want to consider that it's not so surprising that = politics is being discussed in a poetry forum. Perhaps we are searching for what motivates us to produce literary work. Perhaps we are examing ourselves indirectly by discussing politics. It would be a more honest discussion if we discussed our own personal = politics that move us to write what we do and publish what we do. For myself, I am always trying to stir things up and to one-up the = old-school poets on this list. I do this because of my personal experiences with them in person and = through email correspondence. The old-school poets on this list live in a very different world than = the world I live in. It's generational. They are like my parents. My parents admire me but they are also threatened. My parents need to maintain parental control, even though I am 47 years = old. Some old-school poets on this list are even more old-world than my = parents. They act more like my grandparents who were from eastern = europe, some escaping the holocaust and some not. Politics has a very intimate side to it. I believe that is why many are discussing politics here. Because of its intimate side. Poetry also being intimate. The nonconstructive way politics is discussed is that it is always being = directed away from oneself, always being projected onto someone else. We all have our political agendas. We can't help it. We can try to be = better than this level of politicking. But it's hard. What's good to know is that poetry without politics is what poetry = really means. Maybe this is another reason why politics is being discussed a lot. Maybe many people on this list are wondering about their = political/poetic selves and looking for a way out of the politically = motivated, side of themselves. August --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:05:37 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Bradshaw Subject: NY Times Mac Low Obit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jackson Mac Low, 82, Poet and Composer, Dies By MARGALIT FOX Published: December 10, 2004 Jackson Mac Low, a poet, composer and performance artist whose work reveled in what happens when the process of composition is left to carefully calibrated chance, died on Wednesday at Cabrini Medical Center in Manhattan. He was 82 and lived in Manhattan. The cause was complications of a stroke that he had last month, according to the Academy of American Poets, which announced his death. The author of more than two dozen books of poetry, as well as musical compositions, plays and multimedia performance works, Mr. Mac Low was a seminal figure in the American experimentalist movement of the 1950's and after. A founding member of the avant-garde group Fluxus, he collaborated frequently with the composer John Cage. In recent years Mr. Mac Low often worked with his wife, Anne Tardos, a poet, artist and composer. What united Mr. Mac Low's output was a fascination with randomness and with the limitless combinatorial possibilities of language. "The sense of words as being primarily in a circumstance that's limiting - sentencing them to sentences - he did not take kindly to that," the poet Robert Creeley said in a telephone interview yesterday. Mr. Mac Low's poems, like his musical compositions, did not so much blur the boundary between language and music as render it invisible. He prized words not simply for their meaning (he worked as an etymologist as a young man) but as movable fragments of pure sound. Sprung from their sentences, shuffled and reassembled, Mr. Mac Low's words became layered acoustic collages, meant to be performed aloud. Constantly shifting, always evolving, rarely the same twice, his poems laid bare the machinery of poetry-making itself. In Mr. Mac Low's work, structure depended on chance. He composed some poems by shuffling index cards containing words and phrases. For others he used random-number tables and, in later years, computer programs. Some sprang from a roll of the dice. "7.1.11.1.11.9.3!11.6.7!4.,a biblical poem" was the first in a cycle, begun in the mid-1950's, that was rooted in the Hebrew Bible. The poem comprises not only words (spoken aloud by one or more performers) but also rhythmic silences (represented by "/__ /"). Mr. Mac Low prefaced the poem with two pages of instructions describing the various possibilities for reading it. (The title represents the number of words and silences in each line, which he determined with dice.) When read aloud by multiple performers, each going at a different pace, the poem evokes the wash of murmuring of Orthodox Jews at prayer. Jackson Mac Low was born in Chicago on Sept. 12, 1922. After receiving an associate's degree from the University of Chicago in 1941, he earned a bachelor's degree from Brooklyn College in 1958. He was awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship in 1985 and in 1999 received the Wallace Stevens Award, which carries a $100,000 prize, from the Academy of American Poets. Mr. Mac Low's first marriage, to Iris Lezak, ended in divorce in 1973. Besides Ms. Tardos, whom he married in 1990, he is survived by two children from his first marriage, Mordecai-Mark and Clarinda, both of Manhattan, and one grandchild. His other work includes "Two Plays: The Marrying Maiden and Verdurous Sanguinaria" (1999), "Pieces o' Six: Thirty-three Poems in Prose" (1992) and the CD "Open Secrets" (1993). In a 1999 lecture, Mr. Mac Low described what he called his "ways of working." "They are almost always ways in which I engage with contingency, and in doing so I am often, to a large extent, 'not in charge' of what happens while I do so," he explained. "They often surprise me, and they almost always give me pleasure and seem to give pleasure to others." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 05:25:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: all night i work on dance dvd. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed all night i work on dance dvd. http://www.asondheim.org/dancemenu.jpg i burn and the burn stops early. it continues to stop early, there is no warning, it just stops. later i realize i was placing cd in dvd burner, stupid me. two days ago, i was burning dvd and dvd. there was no sound, azure checked the cable, no sound. i burned and burned, all was broken. later i realize the other sound cable was disconnect, sound just stops. all night i work on dance dvd. ++ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:36:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: baa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit baa baa sheep sheep have u any wool? sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:59:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Poems by others: Jackson Mac Low, "Unmanifest" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Unmanifest What the maker of a manifesto does not comprehend or acknowledge is the basic unmanifestness from which and within which each manifes- tation takes place. It is this neglect or ignorance that calls forth repug- nance when a manifesto is proclaimed or published, especially one regarding art. As if what comes to being in and as the work of art could ever be totally manifest or even manifest at all without its abiding steadfastly in the unmanfest! A work of art is a manifesto only insofar as it is its own antimanifesto. 21 June 1983 New York Jackson Mac Low (1922-2004) fr. *Bloomsday* [Barrytown, NY: Station Hill, 1984] Hal Halvard Johnson ============ email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:30:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" and along the lines of what alan is proposing, i also think it worth this list's while to have a close look at marjorie perloff's memoir, ~the vienna paradox~... fascinating autobiographical discussion, and intellectual history, of some of these issues from (imho) one of our leading critical lights... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:41:26 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Reich Subject: Re: Being Jewish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/10/2004 2:38:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, skyplums@JUNO.COM writes: > idiocy that's what sets language poets apart from other poets Q: What does that mean (idiocy)? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 07:48:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Indexer, Columbia University Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seeking detail-oriented, meticulous individuals for 12 to 18 month poetic data entry project. Must have experience w\databases. Interest in poetry, library cataloguing and/or copyediting useful. College degree (English preferred) required. Will work with poetry texts to enter the titles, author names, first lines, and last lines into database. Submit resume and cover letter to Reference at cup_jobs@columbia.edu or fax to (212) 459-3679. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:36:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: Cole Swenson's essay Poetry City MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Discussed at: http://pornfeld.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:52:20 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: deremembered (from more at 7:30) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT .... Hear, naw See, nuh? Pray Gawd Gawd is. No, he remember woht deremembered 'power to the people' en 'can you diggit' phrase bustin' silly 'fros failed firin clips, pipebombs wiph defused timers, wrongfully, removed from assembly buildins. UnModified targets of Virk en Andre, Kaboni and Dawson en Broad st blasted bodies, Holiday Court Homicides, hijackt tambran lickey sticks of Smith en Wesson, Deutche slick metal en Israeli poppin chocolate coated Cato killin weaponary, loaded in darkness, blindfolded, but misfirin, turnin on itself to take aim at Nigger Dan en Alex Hare, Fard en Poole, Malik en Betty, Huey en Bobby, Nicky en O.J, (mad kitties, wicked judges, bad as the Makkabees, good at heart, privy to curruption), the honoured Louis en Allah, Yasser en Jesse, khomanie en shariati, the victory of allah en all the bruthas who marched for the mahdi wiph sadr -- better than Horice en Daniel--Smith en Wesson (self contained cartrage, 1854 pattent, 22 rim fire) firin a bullet through radical rude ratchets aimin at brothers if not bruthas contractin bruthas to abort a reb radical a min. through drivebys on sisters carryin families in bellys bouncin down boulevards. Johnson fix to chasin chicken inna bukras hand. They play a different ballgame from whot hit home en ran wiph Robinson en Reggie. Pardon me brutha as I stand here in your epiphany All may not peep woht it seems But for this lil hex in time Join Me in this Fernwood dream Pump/ firmé this Jacobean plate Rudebwoy rock yuh stealin wheelz Fate the wild pitch in fearful darkers Rocksteady the dreadful Dat You like the ride ¡Ya! abi Keep poundin the funk fa truht, abdi You like the ride ¡Ya! You like the sound, naw Style leaves you drunk, Cho! We'll bring this bitch to the digital age Rant wiph the filthiest, nastiest, word in broken language Ho'Wood nekgaz rage. Breath less steady Cypher solid Fore you jump to nayem a nekgah, Black Lève toi, mi mecx All the dung bruthas jam signalz Coo yah solid Sound break bands like Master crash wheelz of steel ¡Ya! Cayn deny ehad This special make you feel Brutha No, he walked for Miles Lookin for Bird en Dizzy Heard the trumpets shoutout as free en wyel as Bilal. Some got lost on the corner Where a 50yr old held rocks en rigs in his pocket Who'd shoot kids up for 15 bucks a pop Some felt too ashamed to carry on en show themselves to Gawd Who they felt would be embarrassed to know them Mi nekga More nutty en shu wont to die. I believe the Sun en moon will shine up in the sky My More Crazy More One More, Two More, Three More, Four More, Five I know you well brotha Why do you hide your divinty behind thét mortal front Ninefold Earth en ninefold Heaven Drag your do-rags like Satchmo, løco Ellintonia gon to chillin wiph Buster en Dre Tomtoms en trombones en trumpets blastin beatdowns Come strong en make close Let this shit wayhl as wyel as Rasta make to rant Let's create new faiths en take it to dub 'En I en I will play the cook' Shoutz the mad madness of Muslim specialz Btw Who was thét pinche Black dude use to anchor for CNN? They use to call him the rhyme animal Til they notice he neva smiled Made a killin spittin for acedemic criminals En along came the beat down By the thuggedout rola controlaz The mijo en picnney jewls cried out This ain't hip hop This is beats gon loco Come ride this vibe into genocide Raise the daye en slaughter them Kill the madchile once en for all You wont let him speak One Gawd pound another Gawd 2 Gawds one after another One is rape the other is murdah Who'll be the One The dawg in me will solicit heaven So I says goodbye to my stingy brim Cypher the rudeness inna time capsule buried deep in My backyard Where are all the notes, cuz? No, he wonted, mad wont, to sit with his daddy on a Sunday Share a drink inna livinroom His papis in an easy chair en him, No, on a couch, laidback, listenin to the silk of Isfahan. Where your ma cyan hear ¡Ya! Where Scratch steps to the Isaac Hayes Movement En You en your Dad make like Heretics, to the sacred to profane Alhamduillah Abdi ehad Ma Angela chant the blues To catch vampires Chicas fuc wiph treble Sichuan upset the lazy note shifter Watch them rise from earth Hear the lady chant the night Prevail, Rap a blue note Obeah chase this bitch to light Where the notes at, mi brutha/mi carnal/Black? They bin fused, vato Take down this house inna massive slaughter I'll toss em a kite from Below. Tell dem, yush Trane tooted til his gift was accepted Brutha Joey... Brutha Elvin banged as humble as the lil drummerbwoy Blowup dey spots, dun. These are tantrums from our native sons No was always a consider nekgah. Like a Mormon--a jack nekgah --an imagine all nekgah. Big vision kopf négro mec. He warn't jus a street thug. No, he was more. No, he spent most of his time not bein whot his papas was r'memberin whot he was gettin at about bein in thét whole life. In spirit en soul, No was more a soldier--his daddies son. He realized he saw he listened en tried best to hear thét the only ones who fight are the scripture pretty'd Islamic noblemen tannedup/Blackedout F.O.I.'s movin in pertetual prayer. The only one's to give each one back, despite their gats, were the princedom of Homeric Gawd like heretics en Agamemnon street nekgas makin a movement to modifiy a target wiph confounded blastedout calo/afroslavo slangin inna twisted language changin wiph visual sound waves like Arabic scwiggles en a Obarian booby trap thét was held in airbeatin gestures held more close to the body en sent out past his Block across massive lands thét gotta be larger than whot he got hangin from ropes up on the inside of his jefe. Oralé Black Bang it to oblivion There no frontin as Gawds en Mobsters College negrow ego mania at 20 Ridin Malik's groove Niggi so picky Sayin he ain't jiggi His image gon diggi Fails makin boredom Do a 360 Whitebwoy lunatics blast it wiph kicks en tricks Afriklans pound mad at each one Usin knowledge en lead Livin in dread naw, Black Dun left the tambran switch Ungaurded Done tell me ¡Ya! Y'ain't gone through some mad martyrs Maybe one daye No, More en the rest of the waddys could storm a gate--him en his mecx en them. He'd heard about a crew of biddy sandnekgah gaws wiph rocks once. Thét Joseph Smith figured it out at 15. Thét La Raza believe in 13 reasons -- so let thét groove right. En all could dance. No, he kno it en take as a lesson thét Tlel was a scraper. No, he en his waddys could be here, like there, jus like they are alla, who hold tight wise books en smackdown weaponary en mind pimps wiph wildstyle words en might--a flippin back spinnin rocken steady crew slammin bouncin off the bumpin bullets off their rubber souls. Pardon me brutha. Are we still bruthas? Why you always scopin fa bustas? I'm here, brutha If I rub your head, brutha... Done chu wont it Done chu wont it Done chu wont it Not my body, bruh Pardon me brutha Done chu wont it, brutha Keep standin brutha Ready yourself my prince Busy yourself wiph thét head For all the blood drops which Fell pon the Earth For this Walk wiph respect Take my right hand, brutha Clearity, Allah, clearity Done chu wont it It's bin shed Done chu wont it Done chu wont it We fuctup, brutha I'm fuctup, brutha I'm here, brutha You hear me, brutha Comes cyan tell Woht labba Woht tru But this fa mi Jazzy breddas darker than blues Nuff love, brutha Til the Sheccinah comes down round you 1, nekgah ...en wiph thét No, he go. *peace to john coltrane *duke ellington *chuck d *grand master flash 1425 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC "Sadr's followers, including those in the Mahdi Army militia, emerged as the most formidable manifestation of street politics in Iraq after the March 2003 invasion, channeling the energies of the disenfranchised urban poor across the country's largely Shiite south and in Sadr City, ..." Mysterious Death of Native Artist: Anthany Dawson http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/04/24950.php biting the error - forty writers explore narrative: http://www.chbooks.com/tech/catalogue.cgi?t=biting_the_error Nasrallah: Palestinians have the wisdom.. .: http://www.islamicdigest.net/v61forum/index.php?topic=46.0 Of murder and a friend... http://indymedia.existere.com/newswire/display_any/21 Amir Sulaiman -- Free downloads: http://www.amirsulaiman.com/ U.S. Turns Fallujah into a Huge Concentration Camp: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35511.php Naj.One: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/34466.php WAR: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/34527.php 'Unner Stated', by Hurricane Angel w/ Lord Patch: http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8 Israeli soldiers shoot boy for fun http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35482.php Revolution: http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:14:59 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: From Al Aronowitz In-Reply-To: <41B9D444.9070604@shaw.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DEAR FRIENDS AND READERS, I will have an opportunity to meet those of you in the Pittsburgh area on Thursday, December 16, when I appear at Pittsburgh's Club Caf=E9 at 56-58 South 12th Street along with what I consider the Pittsburgh area's best up-and-coming band, MOSES, for a Booksigning party scheduled to begin at 7:30 p.m. With me will be an ample supply of copies of the two books I now have in print, BOB DYLAN AND THE BEATLES, VOLUME ONE OF THE BEST OF THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST and BOBBY DARIN WAS A FRIEND OF MINE, VOLUME THREE OF THE BEST OF THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST. You buy 'em and I'll sign 'em. Otherwise, this message is to inform you that once again we are unavoidably late with this issue of THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST, COLUMN 112, dated December 1, 2004, which is now on the web. Illness continues to force us to publish an abbreviated issue. To take a look, click on http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj SECTION ONE:=20 http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column112.html=20 LAFAYETTE PARK BLUES. Virginia author Joe Bageant mourns the lost freedom and idealism of the '60s, which he says has been replaced by the militaristic attitude of the "Red" states. SECTION TWO:=20 http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column112a.html=20 ON THE ROAD: HOW COUNTERCULTURE SURVIVES IN AMSTERDAM. Another ON THE ROAD column by the legendary John Sinclair, one of those so important to America's counterculture of the '60s. In this one, John tells how Holland's counterculture continues to exist despite the country's Bush-like lightwing government. SECTION THREE: THE LITERARY LINKS SECTION: Links to THE ALLEN GINSBERG ORGANIZATION, THE RITA DOVE website, THE PETER COYOTE website; THE MCCLURE-MANZAREK website; the AMERICAN LEGENDS website; Anny Ballardini's POETS CORNER and we now add altweeklies.com, which is a comprehensive compilation of stories from various alternative newspapers from around the country! SECTION FOUR: THE MOVIE SECTION: THE RITZ FILMBILL. Synopses of foreign, independent and Hollywood movies. SECTION FIVE: THE MUSIC SECTION, features the usual links to SONGSCENTRAL, PURR, POWER OF POP, all contemporary music e-zines; ART ATTACK, all about jazz; THE CELEBRITY CAF=C9, all about celebrities; the BABUKISHAN DAS BAUL website; and EAR CANDY. SECTION SIX: THE ADVERTISING SECTION, offers 13 pages of ads from Earwraps; Cleveland International Records; Richard X. Heyman; Christopher Pick; J. Crow's Milled Cider; An Advertisement for Myself; Tommy Womack, Compliments of a Friend; Zoe Artemis invites you to literary retreat in Greece; Richard Dettrey, who will help you with your shopping; BABY ON THE WATER by Tsaurah Litzky; BOB DYLAN AND THE BEATLES; and Arrogant Prick T-shirts. Would you, too, like to help keep THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST on the Internet? For a nominal contribution, you can have your own advertising page in the Advertising Section of THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST. Simply send us an email to find out about particulars. There are links to friendly sites and we also feature MARK PUCCI'S ONLINE REVIEWS, originally edited by John Williams. Hope you read and enjoy. And hope to see you in Pittsburgh Thursday,=20 December 16. Best, Al Aronowitz =20 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->=20 Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/t6YolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~->=20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AGALIST/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AGALIST-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ =20 Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com=20 http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admire= rs. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:17:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Zuk - "A-14" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit An orange our Sun fire pulp whets us (everyday) eat its its fire's unconsumed ... From the start of Louis Zukofksy's "A-14) As winter lights & darkness become us - at least here in 'the north'! I like this reminder. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:49:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) In-Reply-To: <009601c4de99$8ae03ad0$0d00a8c0@AugustDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm 23... so does that make the old school poets my Grandparents? > >My parents need to maintain parental control, even though I am 47 years >old. > >Some old-school poets on this list are even more old-world than my parents. >They act more like my grandparents who were from eastern europe, some >escaping the holocaust and some not. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:39:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pamela Lu Subject: dis/continuities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable some speculative thoughts, and questions ... Jalal Toufic, in his December 2 lecture at CCAC in San Francisco, = touched briefly on the filmic concept of the "imaginary line." The imaginary = line is the virtual line in space that connects, for instance, two speakers who = are having a dialogue, where the footage cuts back and forth between = close-up reaction/response shots of each speaker's face. Narrative film depends = on such edits and cuts, along with our mind's ability to resolve these = apparent discontinuities into a continuous space or story. Toufic's own work (_Vampires, An Uneasy Essay on the Undead in Film_ http://www.postapollopress.com/Vampires.html) also depends heavily on experiences of spirtual/metaphysical/ontological discontinuity, which I = feel some personal affinity with. After the lecture, I began to play with the = idea of relating the imaginary line to empathy. It is not only our cognitive resolution that connects two actors on screen who are separated by edit = cuts, but also the empathy between the actors during the performance (at least = I believe the core connectivity of this empathy stays intact in good = cinema, as in Almodovar films, and is not solely "constructed" on the splicing = table), as well as our audience-level empathy for the characters. Okay. Then I started thinking about so-called "universal" poets, like Rumi and Rilke = -- (for lack of a better term I'm using "universal" to describe the wide = appeal that these poets seem to have). Their poems too are projects in = discontinuity -- discontinuous images, sensations, quick jumps, abrupt changes in = state & scene. Yet readers can bridge these discontinuous gaps without a great = deal of poetry-reading experience or training. Is this because the = discontinuous experiences presented in these poems are in fact selected points on the imaginary line of continuous empathy? Is discontinuity in this case the visible subset of a usually hidden plane of continuous empathy? Ron Silliman, in his November 18 blog entry (http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2004_11_01_ronsilliman_archive.html), compares his own poems to the disjunctive experience of riding a city = bus. Quick paraphrase: When one gets off a crowded bus and steps onto a = deserted street corner, the scene change is abrupt and jarring; everyday = contemporary life is composed of similarly discrete, discontinuous experiences; = multiple discrete experiences do cross each other and overlap, so that one learns = to navigate the simultaneity of the multiple; real quotidian experience = (and neurocranial thought) is composed of pulses rather than flows, particles rather than waves; thus "stream of consciousness" is a wrongheaded = device, based on the artifice of a theory rather than the realism of = phenomenological life. Elsewhere in his blog, Silliman has noted the significance of = spaces in his New Sentence works, i.e., the space or pause between the period = ending one sentence and the first word beginning the next sentence. As = compositional units, these pauses are as significant (if not more significant) than = the sentences that mark the "material substance" of the poem, because the = pauses represent the decision points where pulses of discrete thought veer off = in one direction vs. another? These pauses are also where the (open) = reading of a piece is concentrated. So if the New Sentence poem is a realist = product of discontinuous consciousness, and if the space or pause in the New = Sentence poem holds the concentration of both compositional and reading energies, = then does a kind of passage open up, through the site of the pause, between = author and reader? And does this passage between author and reader, via the unoccupied spaces marking the cuts in discontinuous pulses, resemble an imaginary line? Lisa Robertson, in her 2003 book _Occasional Work and Seven Walks from = the Office for Soft Architecture_ (http://www.clearcutpress.com/), calls for = a closer look at the surfaces of buildings, garden accessories, fountains, interior wall paint, furniture, and various other "feminine" artifacts = that ornament, adorn, and otherwise dress up the hard architecture of stone/wood/concrete/steel/glass enclosures and civic structures that = function as monuments to idealized states of permanence. By contrast, the = decoration of soft architecture offers continuous evidence of ongoing transience, cultural shifts, decay. The transience of soft architecture is what commemorates the mortal and bridges the distance between the (mortal) = person and the (immortal) civic ideal. What makes this book so extraordinary to = me (as an essay, a poem, a manifesto of post-fin de siecle hopes and = desires) is the way Robertson's prose invokes the lyric with swift juxtapositions of sentences that flicker back and forth between the actual and the = possible, the spatial and the speculative. Certainly the imagination (as inspired = by the city's soft surfaces) does much to fill the discontinuous gaps that trouble the individual's smooth transition into the collective life of = the polis. Is this trouble tantamount to the stab of pain that provokes the = lyric into being? In general, does the interplay between continuous and discontinuous = elements structurally signal a movement towards transformative change, emotional/spiritual/political? And does the writing of discontinuity = (abrupt lyric verse, the aphorism, sentence composed outside the linear = narrative tradition) nevertheless lean toward a utopian continuity on some level, = even if this utopia is meant to dangle perpetually in the future subjunctive? -Pam ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 14:20:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Jackson Mac Low in Virtual Space Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Beginning of writing on Jackson Mac Low: http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/post11.html Also recently completed as part of "1-Year Plan": "Blue States: Reading the Election with Kenneth Fearing" http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/post07.html "Diasporic Avant-Gardes": introductory remarks at the conference at UC Irvine: http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/post09.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:20:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Jackson Mac Low Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Jackson Mac Low: A Few Images on ::fait accompli: http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/2004_12_05_nickpiombino_archive.html#110269 406985224211 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:27:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Forward from David Baptiste Chirot: for Jackson MacLow Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: "David-Baptiste Chirot" Date: Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:12:25 PM America/Chicago To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, poETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU,=20 WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca Cc: fluxlist@scribble.com Subject: [spidertangle] for Jackson MacLow Reply-To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com (may someone please fwd to poetics & wrytings as I can't send=20 there--due to format--thank you-) Thinking much of Jackson MacLow-- this written on the bus ride here to send in today's using first two=20 texts chosen from--pulled out from --knapsack it is a score for voices-- may be arranged any way the performer/performers chose in any way they=20= chose to chose-- it is arranged very simply as depending on so many receiving screens=20 being different--many ways of=A0 arrangement will occur-- so leaving it up to a conjunction of choice & chance in honor of=20 Jackson MacLow's works and his life--being worked and lived ever in=20 inspiring and exemplary relationshsips with these--to honor this (in my ear i hear each set of two lines as being done by two different=20= voices--in call and response as with two which hear did hear as two in=20= mind=A0 on the bus . . at That particular time--): INTO TODAY'S RAINS--TURNING A FACE TOWO/ARDS-- Moment the shadows come/remember kindly acts four eyes' astonishment/faithfull children find dazzling moment gay/miraculous flute that trills here a single man/calm in memories midst =A0in lessons'=A0 dwelling/joyous phantom larker! Deck yourself,--dance--laugh/Love--O voice--your voice Minstrel of enchanted places/understood renewals' graces flies through airs, flowers' dews/mists of fields incences Revolutionary shades/Troubador of World =46rom star to star--dance!-sky!/rosy bell rings in clouds Eternal's Liven up/flutes' high ecstasy pleasant taste of rains/Turning a face towoa/drs . . . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:02:35 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: dis/continuities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pam, This discontinuities are also in essence of surfing channels on T.V. In other words, it seems to me, discontinuities are not per se good or bad; in contemporary experience they are part of the "natural." In other words, the issue is to arouse suspicions around this "natural condition," to defimiliarize its "rightness." Ron's attitude to this issue is ambiguous, it seems to me. "Stream of Consciousness" is a very different thing in "Ulysses" and in "Remembrances." Stylistically, in Joyce, the result is often a fragmentation of sentences, with the punctuation removed (the end of Ulysses). In Proust, it is an elaborate, intricate flow, abolishing limits. Is Proust really inferior to Joyce? I personally doubt it. Remembrances begings (the waking up section, waking to what, what kind of waking?) where Ulysses ends (the moment before sleep). Then, one has Benjamin's The Arcades Project, where absolute fragmentation, differentiation is celebrated as a dream of childhood, in his terms as Dialectical History. Is Ron talking about that? Murat In a message dated 12/10/04 1:40:11 PM, Pamela.Lu@EFI.COM writes: > some speculative thoughts, and questions ... > > Jalal Toufic, in his December 2 lecture at CCAC in San Francisco, touched > briefly on the filmic concept of the "imaginary line." The imaginary line is > the virtual line in space that connects, for instance, two speakers who are > having a dialogue, where the footage cuts back and forth between close-up > reaction/response shots of each speaker's face. Narrative film depends on > such edits and cuts, along with our mind's ability to resolve these apparent > discontinuities into a continuous space or story. Toufic's own work > (_Vampires, An Uneasy Essay on the Undead in Film_ > http://www.postapollopress.com/Vampires.html) also depends heavily on > experiences of spirtual/metaphysical/ontological discontinuity, which I feel > some personal affinity with. After the lecture, I began to play with the > idea > of relating the imaginary line to empathy. It is not only our cognitive > resolution that connects two actors on screen who are separated by edit > cuts, > but also the empathy between the actors during the performance (at least I > believe the core connectivity of this empathy stays intact in good cinema, > as > in Almodovar films, and is not solely "constructed" on the splicing table), > as well as our audience-level empathy for the characters. Okay. Then I > started thinking about so-called "universal" poets, like Rumi and Rilke -- > (for lack of a better term I'm using "universal" to describe the wide appeal > that these poets seem to have). Their poems too are projects in > discontinuity > -- discontinuous images, sensations, quick jumps, abrupt changes in state & > scene. Yet readers can bridge these discontinuous gaps without a great deal > of poetry-reading experience or training. Is this because the discontinuous > experiences presented in these poems are in fact selected points on the > imaginary line of continuous empathy? Is discontinuity in this case the > visible subset of a usually hidden plane of continuous empathy? > > Ron Silliman, in his November 18 blog entry > (http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2004_11_01_ronsilliman_archive.html), > compares his own poems to the disjunctive experience of riding a city bus. > Quick paraphrase: When one gets off a crowded bus and steps onto a deserted > street corner, the scene change is abrupt and jarring; everyday contemporary > life is composed of similarly discrete, discontinuous experiences; multiple > discrete experiences do cross each other and overlap, so that one learns to > navigate the simultaneity of the multiple; real quotidian experience (and > neurocranial thought) is composed of pulses rather than flows, particles > rather than waves; thus "stream of consciousness" is a wrongheaded device, > based on the artifice of a theory rather than the realism of > phenomenological > life. Elsewhere in his blog, Silliman has noted the significance of spaces > in > his New Sentence works, i.e., the space or pause between the period ending > one sentence and the first word beginning the next sentence. As > compositional > units, these pauses are as significant (if not more significant) than the > sentences that mark the "material substance" of the poem, because the pauses > represent the decision points where pulses of discrete thought veer off in > one direction vs. another? These pauses are also where the (open) reading of > a piece is concentrated. So if the New Sentence poem is a realist product of > discontinuous consciousness, and if the space or pause in the New Sentence > poem holds the concentration of both compositional and reading energies, > then > does a kind of passage open up, through the site of the pause, between > author > and reader? And does this passage between author and reader, via the > unoccupied spaces marking the cuts in discontinuous pulses, resemble an > imaginary line? > > Lisa Robertson, in her 2003 book _Occasional Work and Seven Walks from the > Office for Soft Architecture_ (http://www.clearcutpress.com/), calls for a > closer look at the surfaces of buildings, garden accessories, fountains, > interior wall paint, furniture, and various other "feminine" artifacts that > ornament, adorn, and otherwise dress up the hard architecture of > stone/wood/concrete/steel/glass enclosures and civic structures that > function > as monuments to idealized states of permanence. By contrast, the decoration > of soft architecture offers continuous evidence of ongoing transience, > cultural shifts, decay. The transience of soft architecture is what > commemorates the mortal and bridges the distance between the (mortal) person > and the (immortal) civic ideal. What makes this book so extraordinary to me > (as an essay, a poem, a manifesto of post-fin de siecle hopes and desires) > is > the way Robertson's prose invokes the lyric with swift juxtapositions of > sentences that flicker back and forth between the actual and the possible, > the spatial and the speculative. Certainly the imagination (as inspired by > the city's soft surfaces) does much to fill the discontinuous gaps that > trouble the individual's smooth transition into the collective life of the > polis. Is this trouble tantamount to the stab of pain that provokes the > lyric > into being? > > In general, does the interplay between continuous and discontinuous elements > structurally signal a movement towards transformative change, > emotional/spiritual/political? And does the writing of discontinuity (abrupt > lyric verse, the aphorism, sentence composed outside the linear narrative > tradition) nevertheless lean toward a utopian continuity on some level, even > if this utopia is meant to dangle perpetually in the future subjunctive? > > -Pam > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:24:45 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: dis/continuities In-Reply-To: <85255F5D7398F548BB4FB4137F543DC8080CAB@fcexmb03.efi.internal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pamela wrote: >>Then I started thinking about so-called "universal" poets, like Rumi and Rilke -- (for lack of a better term I'm using "universal" to describe the wide appeal that these poets seem to have). Their poems too are projects in discontinuity -- discontinuous images, sensations, quick jumps, abrupt changes in state & scene. Yet readers can bridge these discontinuous gaps without a great deal of poetry-reading experience or training. Is this because the discontinuous experiences presented in these poems are in fact selected points on the imaginary line of continuous empathy? Is discontinuity in this case the visible subset of a usually hidden plane of continuous empathy?<< I think people would say the same thing about Hafez--another Persian Sufi mystical poet that people in the West have taken as "universal" in the sense you mean--and while I must confess I am not sure entirely what you mean by your question, I do think, if I understand what you are asking even partially, that religious mysticism would have to answer yes and that this hidden plane is the path towards/oneness with/etc. the divine. (I don't know Rilke well enough to know whether he would fit into the same mystical category as the other two.) But there is something else worth thinking about here. The form that Rumi and Hafez wrote much of their best known work in, the ghazal, is a form built on discontinuity: a series of discrete couplets stitched together by a single rhyme that repeats over and over again until the poem ends. In other words, the form itself depends on a reader's ability to see the discontinuity between and among the couplets as somehow existing in a context that also allows for them to be part of a coherent whole. Now, I know that this element of the formal structure of Rumi and Hafez almost never comes across in the more popular translations of their work--and even translations that are more faithful to the original have a hard time coming close to approximating the ghazal formally since monorhyme is a very difficult thing to pull off well in English. Nonetheless, to the extent that the original form can be understood as existing somewhere in the "deep structure" of the translations I am talking about, it's worth thinking about the extent to which a poem's formal properties contribute to the dynamic you are asking about. Richard ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:02:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pamela Lu Subject: Re: dis/continuities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Murat, I wouldn't want to get into a "value" competition between Joyce and = Proust either. I get something from reading each writer, and it's not the same something. Though as I get older I seem to gravitate temperamentally = more to Proust, but that's more a mood than a value statement. Stylistically I = think of Proust as a Modernist who is very much in dialogue with the 19th = century tradition, in terms of extending the possibilities of the 19th century European novel to its absolute limit. So prose-wise you get passages of realist character & landscape description that are pushed to paratactic extremes; plot-wise you get the classic outline of a young man's = ambition, rise, and disillusionment with fashionable society; even technology-wise = you have characters struggling with the transition into the information age, = as in telephones superseding the newsworthiness of written letters. Joyce it seems to me was more consciously trying to signal a stylistic = and structural break with the 19th. I've not read Benjamin's Arcades -- I'm intrigued. How does he go from childhood dreaming to the historical dialectic? I'll have to add this to = my reading list... best, Pam=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:17:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: Re: dis/continuities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Here's a text that might speak to what Pam Lu just posted, but from a slightly different vantage point. It's from "Devotional Cinema" by Nathaniel Dorsky (Tuumba, 2003) konrad PS A relevant plug: SF Cinematheque and The Poetry Center will be showing a wonderful excerpt from a doc. Dorksy worked on this Sunday at the SF campus of California College of Arts, Timken Hall (where SPT has readings). The sequences in question are cut (according to these principles) to several archival recordings of Keroauc reading from his books. So you can judge for yourself if Dorksy is on to someting.... ^Z Intermittence "The quality of light, as experienced in film, is intermittent. At sound speed there are 24 images a second, each about a 50th of a second in duration, alternative with an equivalent period of black. So the film we are watching is not actually a solid thing. It only appears to be solid. "On a visceral level, the intermittent quality of film is close to the way we experience the world. We don't experience a solid continuum of existence. Sometimes we are here and sometimes not, suspended in some kind of rapid-fire illusion. After all, do any of us know *who* we actually are? Although we assume that we are something solid, in truth we are only experience and maneuver through our existence. After all can anything really be solid? "On close examination, even our vision appears to be intermittent, which explains why, in film, pans often feel artificial or forced. This stems from the fact that one never pans in real life. In truth, when we turn our heads we don't actually see a graceful continuum but a series of tiny jump-cuts, little stills joined, perhaps, by infinitesimal dissolves. Thus our visual experience in daily life is akin to the intermittence of cinema. "Intermittence penetrates to the very core of our being, and film vibrates in a way that is close to this core. it is as basic as life and death, existence and non-existence. My own instinct is that the poles of existence and non-existence alternate at an extremely fast speed and that we float in that alternation. We don't experience the non-existence, the moments between existence; there is no way to perceive these moments as such. But in accepting their presence aerates life, and suffuses the "solid" world with luminosity. "A second aspect of intermittence has to do with the nature of montage, the play of events or the narrative nature of our live. This intermittence is part of our daily experience. For example, you might be driving your car and you mind wanders off into thought, and six blocks, two red lights, and a left turn later you return to you driving and think, "Who was driving? How did i do that? I stopped at red lights. Where was I?" In other words, life is full of gaps. We try to make the whole thing seem continuous and solid, but it's actually more intermittent than we often want to admit. In a sense, for film to be true, it has to trust this intermittence. Its montage has to present a succession of visual events that are sparing enough, and at the same time poignant enough, to allow the viewer's most basic sense of existence to "fill in the blanks." If a film fills in too much, it violates our experience. "We certainly know the shallow, sickening feeling of leaving a film that has had no true respect for the intermittence of our being. Such a film does not respect what we know life to be, it is not what we experience. It is too solid. It is an act of rudeness." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:34:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041208123210.027068c0@email.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Maria, I'm back from Seattle . . . so to continue. I agree with Aldon that this sounds suspicious. There is no question that the Mufti was friendly with the Germans (remember: the British were occupying Palestine). I doubt if there were any conversations about final solutions -- since the Nazis did not use that term publicly, and probably not with the Mufti (Arabs did not rate much higher in the Nazi racial scale). Hilton At 12:33 PM 12/8/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Maria: > >doesn't the very nature of this report arouse suspicion -- not that I hold >any truck with grand muftis -- did JM cite any source? when did this >conversation take place? > >At 09:02 AM 12/8/2004, Maria Damon wrote: >>i attended a talk a few weeks ago in which i learned that during his >>conversation w/ hitler, the grand mufti of jerusalem (arafat's uncle) >>asked what he shd do w/ the jews who were coming to palestine --he >>wanted to initiate something like the Final Solution himself. hitler >>said: they're yours to do with as you will. >>hilton, do you know about this? it was a talk by jeffrey mehlman. i >>don't want to get my facts wrong on this incendiary topic. >> >>At 12:08 AM -0800 12/8/04, Ishaq wrote: >>>"There was another, more profound conversation, between Professor Said >>>and Arafat, in 1985 when they were discussing Haj Amin al-Husseini, the >>>Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who supported the 1936 revolt against British >>>rule, and who believed the Zionists would take Palestinian land but who >>>ended up in Berlin, urging Hitler to prevent the emigration of Jews to >>>Palestine and encouraging Bosnian Muslims to join the SS. Professor Said >>>told me Arafat said: "Edward, if there's one thing I don't want to be, >>>it's like Haj Amin. He was always right and he got nothing and died in >>>exile." >>> >>>What will they say of Arafat? The Israelis refused permission for Haj >>>Amin to be buried in Jerusalem. Ariel Sharon has said the same rule will >>>apply to Arafat. In death, at least, Arafat and Haj Amin were equal." >>> >>>http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk11132004.html >> >>-- > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >"and now it's winter in America" > --Gil Scott-Heron > > >Aldon Lynn Nielsen >George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature >Department of English >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 [office] > >(814) 863-7285 [Fax] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:19:06 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What? Poets don't talk about politics? Shouldn't talk of politics? Politicians shouldn't write poetry?Are not we poets part of the political "spectrum" - it is arguable (not thereby provable of course) that poetics = politics. Charles Bernstein and some of the other Language poets make a more or less strong case for this view language/poetics/politics/art/sociology/psychology ..everything is in somehow connected. There is no innocent language or poem /text etc - are there any innocent poets? Here is a chapter from L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E Volume Four (Editors Bruce Andrews and Charles Bernstein) and a previous essay has a contributor using the phrase "the imperialism of the signifier".... Nick Piombino is in that issue as well as Jackson MacLow, Barrett Watten, Alan Sondheim.,...and others innocent and or condemned (joking a little in my silly way...but they are there!) [I walked into a second hand book shop about 1996 or 7 and asked if the assistant if there was anything on poetry/poetics (he had some knowledge in that area) and he said there was some writing on language by some American poets and I raced to the relevant shelves for the two volumes!! Couldn't believe my luck -don't see that sort of stuff much here in NZ!] "The Political Economy of Poetry" by Ron Silliman. And of course there is the (well known? ) quote from Loius Zukofsky (Jewish friend of the anti-Semite Ezra pound) "Politics is what makes us human." Louis Zukofsky (Letter to Ezra Pound 1962) Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Malcolm Davidson" To: Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 8:31 PM Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) > For a list I thought was about poetry, there's an awful lot of talk > about politics here. When your discussion becomes more politics than > poetics, isn't it time to take your discussion elsewhere? > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:39:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: everyday people In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I agree with George Bowering on this. What left are you talking about, Alan? Are you talking about the left in Israel? I would say that, given how serious the violations of international law Israel commits, Israel gets very dainty treatment in the US (and I suspect in Canada as well), by much of the left as well. Are the Democrats the left (they are, according to Fox)? There was no significant difference between Kerry and Bush when it came to supporting Sharon. When Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982, there were a million people marching against nuclear war and for peace in New York City -- but organizers would not allow anyone to hold banners protesting the war that was actually occurring at that time. There was gag order on speakers -- all to mollify pro-Israel elements. Twenty years later many anti-war organizers insist on linking the occupations of Iraq with the occupation of Palestine, and some like Michael Lerner of Tikkun objecting. Times have changed. From my point of view it's been too long before the American left began to address the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the US role in the Middle East. Hilton Obenzinger At 12:00 PM 12/9/2004 -0800, George Bowering wrote: >>>And the left is ugly in this - which is where my anguish comes from. >>>The >>>left of any sort obviously advocates tolerance, historical analysis in >>>depth, sensitivity - with everything except Israel. There are even >>>left >>>attempts to understand - better, comprehend, El Quaeda and its roots. >>>But >>>when it comes to Israel, the equation Israel=Jew is made, and both are >>>condemned ab nihilo ad nihilo. > >See, this is just the kind of assertion that indicates some kind of >loyalty >instead of figuring out the world. It is simply not true that the left >is soft on >all regimes except the Israeli one. The left rose up against Idi Amin, >for >example. The left was opposed to the apartheid regime in South Africa >(though >Israel supported it). The left was against the US-aided Pinochet >dictatorship >in Chile (though its secret police were trained by the Israeli secret >police). >In most parts of the world the left (and indeed the centre) is against >the US >imperialism. I have heard remarks such as the one I am referring to here >before, and they are as unuseful as saying that to be against the >Israeli >occupation is to be anti-semitic. But then I have heard Mordechai >Richler >called an anti-semite by a lot of Montreal Jewish organizations . . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 21:14:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Poetics List--Not Politics List--Please In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20041210172717.0274ce70@hobnzngr.pobox.stanford.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi all, i'm not calling for a return to a moderated list, but i didn't sign up for a poetics list to hear my fellow poets debate politics, no less arab-israeli relations. in other lists i've been on in the past, when someone posted something off-topic they put in the subject line "OT/" followed by the subject. can we at least do this? best, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 on 12/10/04 8:39 PM, Hilton Obenzinger at hobnzngr@STANFORD.EDU wrote: > I agree with George Bowering on this. What left are you talking about, > Alan? Are you talking about the left in Israel? I would say that, given > how serious the violations of international law Israel commits, Israel gets > very dainty treatment in the US (and I suspect in Canada as well), by much > of the left as well. Are the Democrats the left (they are, according to > Fox)? There was no significant difference between Kerry and Bush when it > came to supporting Sharon. When Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982, there were > a million people marching against nuclear war and for peace in New York > City -- but organizers would not allow anyone to hold banners protesting > the war that was actually occurring at that time. There was gag order on > speakers -- all to mollify pro-Israel elements. Twenty years later many > anti-war organizers insist on linking the occupations of Iraq with the > occupation of Palestine, and some like Michael Lerner of Tikkun > objecting. Times have changed. From my point of view it's been too long > before the American left began to address the Israeli-Palestinian conflict > and the US role in the Middle East. > > Hilton Obenzinger ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:29:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mickey O'Connor Subject: poetics not politics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree , enough politics on a poetics list. I and I imagine almost anyone on this list could go on ad infinitum about politics, yea; it makes my blood boil. So what? Regards, Mickey __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 21:44:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Brazilian Poetry In-Reply-To: <270A9B09.3E57F5F6.0FB80DCC@netscape.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK- so enough politics for a while- I think we are all in shell shock from the 'victory' of our friend Peron-Bush. Speaking of South America I just put up on Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com profiles of 5 Brazilian poets I asked for more interviews but others were tardy with their responses, I will put them up later. I have had the pleasure however to translate all these interviews and be in dialogue with these poets for the past month and it has been a joy, they bring up so many things that Americans just dont care that much about. First off Brazilian poets are very well read and on the whole the poet has a position of higher status in Brazil in comparison to our wonderful Money republic. So I am interested, Buffalo Listers, in how we can internationalize the conversation here on the list I am interested in what all of you think about poetry as a global artform and how we as poets in this milleu can dialogue with poets from other places. We will be doing Country Profiles in the next 6 months of Polish Poetry, Bengali Poetry, Italian Poetry and Chinese Poetry and I hope that this dialogue continues to grow- RB Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mickey O'Connor > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:30 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: poetics not politics > > > I agree , enough politics on a poetics list. I and I imagine almost > > anyone on this list could go on ad infinitum about politics, yea; it makes > > my blood boil. So what? > > > Regards, Mickey > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:40:21 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Brazilian Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ray, It's fantastic what you are doing. I hope the interest among the list member= s=20 actively increases.=20 Murat In a message dated 12/10/04 10:48:40 PM, saudade@COMCAST.NET writes: > OK- so enough politics for a while- I think we are all in shell shock from > the 'victory' of our friend Peron-Bush. >=20 > Speaking of South America I just put up on Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com > profiles of 5 Brazilian poets I asked for more interviews but others were > tardy with their responses, I will put them up later. I have had the > pleasure however to translate all these interviews and be in dialogue with > these poets for the past month and it has been a joy, they bring up so man= y > things that Americans just dont care that much about. First off Brazilian > poets are very well read and on the whole the poet has a position of highe= r > status in Brazil in comparison to our wonderful Money republic. >=20 > So I am interested, Buffalo Listers, in how we can internationalize the > conversation here on the list I am interested in what all of you think abo= ut > poetry as a global artform and how we as poets in this milleu can dialogue > with poets from other places.=A0 We will be doing Country Profiles in the=20= next > 6 months of Polish Poetry, Bengali Poetry, Italian Poetry and Chinese Poet= ry > and I hope that this dialogue continues to grow- >=20 >=20 > RB >=20 >=20 > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mickey O'Connor > > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:30 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: poetics not politics > > > > > >=A0 =A0=A0 I agree , enough politics on a poetics list. I and I imagine a= lmost > > > > anyone on this list could go on ad infinitum about politics, yea; it mak= es > > > > my blood boil. So what? > > > > > >=A0 =A0 =A0 Regards, Mickey > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > > http://isp.netscape.com/register > > > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. > > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:44:25 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Re: Poetics List--Not Politics List--Please: Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mi amigo, akhi I hope yuh feelin me a go wreckin it up in yuh tardis set trip a go set this screw driver clapped to sonic afrikan mathematic plotted in ebonics when they eyes get lynchy givin props to what is unreality we crush a poet his clic(k) and the liars to infinity = is this will embalm David A. K? wr a kite dave.... i'll bomb it in po etiquette black writs, black flex, black flow, black testimony, black voice, what others call poetry, is what is the struggle and the "roots to/of resistance" against the extended metaphor of the "west" and what it calls politics a term condemned by my jamaican bruhs as "politricks". politicks is the god of the west and the voting polls it's tabernacle and temple -- the money, it's iconography -- the politicians it's paramedic priesthood = its sanhendrin. so the voice of those not privileged will always reflect/flex what the privilege call "political" which is actually the roots of resistance and the speaking of the TRUTH which is the light which burns vampires. what makes the wicked uncomfortable and what makes them "invoke authority" and resort to dirty tricks to silence the voice? -- this is what the skill of aqil and right of what is "Sankofa" has been given to us as tool to catch and crush vampire -- this is the path to our deep concentration. fyah bun y'kno left and right? all designations of the white middle classes -- the european sons -- who sit at the same table jabbering like what their white women like to call "the mens' club". only at this table, white woman = lulu belle--is present to twitch her lynch men invoking fan while sippin on a mint julep claimin eternal victimhood and voice for the house mammies she decalres as sisters b.u.t. watches as her white males rape and destroy all Culture and family while breeding desease and grey and blues into the bastards of the crusades -- and bring home the booty. it was established, and god willing will remain that: "one, god, one aim, one destiny" --marcus garvey will serve as the vehicle / tenor to combat the putsch. here's a few notes: Note: this is what challenges the left --the pure radicalism and revolutionary foundation with the cornerstones of islam: "They want us to redefine Islam to fit the agenda of the west," he intones, and the audience murmurs. "Islam is going to be political, no matter how hard they try. Islam itself is political. Allah has not remained silent when it comes to political matters."--Islam itself is political http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/34679.php may i add so is what the dilletants wh call themselves poets miss that what they call "peotry" is what they call "political" and it DISassembles and DEstratifies. ...and David A. Kirschenbaum http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2003/01/28174.php Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation 1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil 2. Become incredulous and indignant 3. Create rumor mongers 4. Use a straw man 5. Sidetrack opponents w name calling, ridicule 6. Hit and Run 7. Question motives 8. Invoke authority 9. Play Dumb 10. Associate opponent charges with old news 11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions 12. Enigmas have no solution 13. Alice in Wonderland Logic 14. Demand complete solutions 15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions 16. Vanish evidence and witnesses 17. Change the subject 18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad 19. Ignore facts, demand impossible proofs 20. False evidence 21. Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor 22. Manufacture a new truth 23. Create bigger distractions 24. Silence critics 25. Vanish http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/28850.php Field Guide To Hasbara (Zionist deception & propaganda) Zionism and the Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation David A. Kirschenbaum wrote: >hi all, > >i'm not calling for a return to a moderated list, but i didn't sign up for a >poetics list to hear my fellow poets debate politics, no less arab-israeli >relations. > > 21. Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor >in other lists i've been on in the past, when someone posted something >off-topic they put in the subject line "OT/" followed by the subject. can >we at least do this? > > 8. Invoke authority >best, >david > >-- >David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher >Boog City >330 W.28th St., Suite 6H >NY, NY 10001-4754 >For event and publication information: >http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ >T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) >F: (212) 842-2429 > >on 12/10/04 8:39 PM, Hilton Obenzinger at hobnzngr@STANFORD.EDU wrote: > > > >>I agree with George Bowering on this. What left are you talking about, >>Alan? Are you talking about the left in Israel? I would say that, given >>how serious the violations of international law Israel commits, Israel gets >>very dainty treatment in the US (and I suspect in Canada as well), by much >>of the left as well. Are the Democrats the left (they are, according to >>Fox)? There was no significant difference between Kerry and Bush when it >>came to supporting Sharon. When Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982, there were >>a million people marching against nuclear war and for peace in New York >>City -- but organizers would not allow anyone to hold banners protesting >>the war that was actually occurring at that time. There was gag order on >>speakers -- all to mollify pro-Israel elements. Twenty years later many >>anti-war organizers insist on linking the occupations of Iraq with the >>occupation of Palestine, and some like Michael Lerner of Tikkun >>objecting. Times have changed. From my point of view it's been too long >>before the American left began to address the Israeli-Palestinian conflict >>and the US role in the Middle East. >> >>Hilton Obenzinger >> >> > > > -- {\rtf1\mac\ansicpg10000\cocoartf102 {\fonttbl\f0\fswiss\fcharset77 Helvetica;} {\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;} \margl1440\margr1440\vieww9000\viewh9000\viewkind0 \pard\tx560\tx1120\tx1680\tx2240\tx2800\tx3360\tx3920\tx4480\tx5040\tx5600\tx6160\tx6720\ql\qnatural \f0\fs24 \cf0 \ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:55:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Get the light stanza Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Get the light stanza "I Believe the Spoken Agency in the light. The critical text of the lamp scraps compiled a floater in the Reflection. What remains arises from the stanza Inside the carnage brought to Contemplation O head hid in the night." "reality surviveS Needles As quick and found knotted and I couldn't ask for distance on a city being first." "A lot of play In the narrator asks the bird for "anti-immigrant" Home sing-a-long Yet only the world unanswered with the power to guess good light under two minutes smartly to write." It looks stopped in the final VOYAGE of that Muddle enticed the end of the stanza. for Jackson Mac Low (1922-2004) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:55:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Brazilian Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit well murat hopefully we can do Turkey as well I love your anthology it is a masterwork R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Murat Nemet-Nejat > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:40 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Brazilian Poetry > > > Ray, > > It's fantastic what you are doing. I hope the interest among the > list members > actively increases. > > Murat > > > In a message dated 12/10/04 10:48:40 PM, saudade@COMCAST.NET writes: > > > > OK- so enough politics for a while- I think we are all in shell > shock from > > the 'victory' of our friend Peron-Bush. > > > > Speaking of South America I just put up on Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com > > profiles of 5 Brazilian poets I asked for more interviews but > others were > > tardy with their responses, I will put them up later. I have had the > > pleasure however to translate all these interviews and be in > dialogue with > > these poets for the past month and it has been a joy, they > bring up so many > > things that Americans just dont care that much about. First off > Brazilian > > poets are very well read and on the whole the poet has a > position of higher > > status in Brazil in comparison to our wonderful Money republic. > > > > So I am interested, Buffalo Listers, in how we can internationalize the > > conversation here on the list I am interested in what all of > you think about > > poetry as a global artform and how we as poets in this milleu > can dialogue > > with poets from other places. We will be doing Country > Profiles in the next > > 6 months of Polish Poetry, Bengali Poetry, Italian Poetry and > Chinese Poetry > > and I hope that this dialogue continues to grow- > > > > > > RB > > > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mickey O'Connor > > > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:30 PM > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: poetics not politics > > > > > > > > > I agree , enough politics on a poetics list. I and I > imagine almost > > > > > > anyone on this list could go on ad infinitum about politics, > yea; it makes > > > > > > my blood boil. So what? > > > > > > > > > Regards, Mickey > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > > > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > > > http://isp.netscape.com/register > > > > > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > > > > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > > > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. > > > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:19:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed step outside i mean you let's have a go at it ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:28:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: dis/continuities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi - wrote a reply re: this, and it was lost. To reconstruct - the imaginary line also relates to the 180 degree rule, keeping the camera on one side of the line - breaking this is a common technique of experimental film as well as Godard, etc. For example, I made a film around 1973 called 'conversation' in which two people, talking intently, are filmed with the camera shuffling positions; the result is both figures face the same direction. But for me this isn't empathy, but a parasitic apparatus - created expressly for the viewer to comprehend 'the real,' since the viewer doesn't do jump-cut, say the way Godard does. It's parasitic because the film is constructed out of a filmic space as if the viewer were privy or supplementary to what is occurring - this is taken for granted by Hollywood narrative which tends towards the univeral reading, 'as if' realistic. So the line for me indicates an inauthentic construct, i.e. the reduction of the real to a positioning or vanishing-point, just as a landscape is never 'out there,' but positioned for viewing - hence the use of camera obscura etc. etc. The parasitic apparatus filters what's before it into the diegesis - i.e. the narrative as constructed by the viewer; the line is of the viewer and for the viewer. It literally sutures discontinuous gaps in relation to the subject. It creates an absolute reading, a whole, where there isn't one. Godard's breaking - which is the absence of empathy - produces the idea of empathy as false; one is never in another's skin. I honestly don't think this has anything to do with the 'empathy between the actors.' Teaching film - teaching these formalisms - in fact involves the opposite - constant repositioning, stopping and starting, to give the illusion of continuity. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:54:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Brazilian Poetry In-Reply-To: <000401c4df3d$a0408ac0$9089ad43@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > > So I am interested, Buffalo Listers, in how we can > internationalize the > > > conversation here on the list I am interested in what all of > > you think about > > > poetry as a global artform and how we as poets in this milleu > > can dialogue > > > with poets from other places. We will be doing Country > > Profiles in the next > > > 6 months of Polish Poetry, Bengali Poetry, Italian Poetry and > > Chinese Poetry > > > and I hope that this dialogue continues to grow- > > > > > > > > > RB > > > > > > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > > > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > > > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ i have been enjoying your http://www.chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/brazil.htm page on brazilian poets. thank you. allow me to recommend some great sites by brazilian writers/artists. concerning internationalizing the dialog, it is important to be in contact with poets who also are interested in internationalizing the dialog. the net is a very good thing for international communications and being able to see the work of other people from around the world. and the combination of text/visuals/sound/interactivity etc sometimes make for work that is 'already translated'. MUSEUM OF THE ESSENTIAL AND BEYOND THAT http://www.arteonline.arq.br this is regina célia pinto's site. the site contains her own work and her vast curatorial efforts at publishing global poetry and net.art NETART.ORG.UY http://netart.org.uy brian mackern's site. ANA MARIA URIBE http://www.vispo.com/uribe site of the late great argentine visual poet ana maria uribe. BRAZILIAN DIGITAL POETRY http://vispo.com/misc/BrazilianDigitalPoetry.htm a page of links, maintained by jorge luiz antonio, to sites concerning brazilian digital poetry CONCRETISMO http://concretismo.zip.net victor az's blog of concrete/net poetry. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 03:54:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Being Jewish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit check out that last name meant idolotry (sp) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 10:45:48 +0100 Reply-To: Malcolm Davidson Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Malcolm Davidson Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) In-Reply-To: <002201c4df1f$695d02e0$932756d2@computer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I said this: > For a list I thought was about poetry, there's an awful lot of talk > about politics here. When your discussion becomes more politics than > poetics, isn't it time to take your discussion elsewhere? And you, apparently in answer (because you quote the above), said this: > What? Poets don't talk about politics? Shouldn't talk of politics? > Politicians shouldn't write poetry?Are not we poets part of the political > "spectrum" - it is arguable (not thereby provable of course) that poetics = > politics. Charles Bernstein and some of the other Language poets make a more > or less strong case for this view > language/poetics/politics/art/sociology/psychology ..everything is in > somehow connected. But it doesn't read like an answer: "Poets don't talk about politics?" -- does not follow from original statement. "Shouldn't talk of politics?" -- does not follow from original statement. "Politicians shouldn't write poetry?" -- does not follow from original statement. "Are not we poets part of the political "spectrum" - it is arguable (not thereby provable of course) that poetics = > politics." -- No one said poets aren't political. No one said bus drivers aren't political. But you are correct in asserting that "everything is...connected." We all live somewhere. It is arguable that we are all architects, that we each create our architecture by being complicit in its design and use, by allowing some buildings to be and other buildings to be destroyed, by financially supporting one type of building and not another. Let us chatter about architecture. We should use the list to distribute pictures of our favorite buildings and to raise money for our building development plans. I have a quagmire in Florida that you may be interested in. We all eat. We all are eaten. Eat or be eaten. Let's swap recipes. How about pies for the holidays? I have a darling "Alaskan Snow Pie" recipe. We all have teeth. Let us talk dentistry. Everyone grin. _Now_. (You, there. Yes, you. You have something caught between your upper left cuspid and the adjacent lateral incisor. It appears to be a hair or a bristle. A spine.) We all are physicians or ought to be. The body is all we have, and the mind, which is the body anyway. Want to see my bunions? Want to touch my bunions? Aren't they smooth and warm? Often the first step in a treatment plan, a normal, active life. Taping helps keep the foot in a normal position, thus reducing stress and pain. I call them "Paul" and "Babe". We all wear shoes. We all are Jesus or have Jesus in our hearts or are in the heart of Jesus, the heart of hearts, brethren, when we know it not, hallelujah, amen, etc. We all drive or are driven. We all wash clothes or have them washed for us. We all make sandwiches or choose not to make sandwiches, and there is ham vs. peanut butter and jelly. We all dance or should; those who do not should not be trusted. We all breathe. There are so many things to chatter about. Unfortunately, there are no other places to talk of such things. It is such a sad, sad situation -- when, oh, when will someone fix the internet? -- that there are all these conversations we need to have, and only one place, this poetics list, where all these conversations can be held. Simultaneously. Malcolm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 02:53:51 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No! We can talk about poltics and poetics and dentisry anything you want - my dentist is related to de La Mare (that's his name) - a really alive courageous mind doesn't see anything that is foreign to it - opposition to "politics" is mostly from those who fear it or want to clamp down dissent - not saying everyone (or amyone) does but a lot are motivated by that on oter discussion lists etc ..no? Maybe not - but I suspect so...could be wrong. But think of Roland Barthes - what didnt he write about ? He wrote about everything you talk of (eg in Mythologies - food, recipes, dentistry would all have been potential subjects - the world and everything that is the world is the subject of a poet. There is a strong connection between poetics and politics - you conveniently missed off my (brilliantly illuminating!) references to Ron Silliman Bernstein and how they discuss politics or did (until two legs became good?) In fact Murat and I discussed this a year ago - an important aspect of poetics is in fact how it relates to poetics (and sociology, psych, popular culture (and there you go - everything on your list and more) just about all poetry is political - Ironically before S/11 (just befere S/11 happened I had decided to stop reading the newspapers or watching television (totally - to see what it would be like)) - I was almost completely unintersted in politcs - then bang - my so rang me up - and whammo! - the greatest show on earth !!!) (couldn't escape it here even in little NZ) I was writing things such as my RED - I put it on here once before - somewhere its on the archives - which was influenced by my first encounter with the language poets in 1992 also coming to see Stein (heer work startled me when I first had good look at it - since 1992 I have read most of her work - Stanzas in Meditations is - well reading it ( I liken the experience to that of listening to Bach ) now those expereinces of Stein and so on - and first "encountering" the Language poets - lead me (at 44 years) to write RED which I thought at the time was totally non referential non political - had no messge -was pure poetry - and so on: That said I realise that nothing is completely non referential and probably the very lack of "politics" is a sign of a political stance or attitude etc The Red is on the archives of epc but I dont have it on my PC only on my Amiga - but I'll put this on -and you will see that - as such - it has not a hint of 'politics' - here is a poem I wrote a little later: Stepping Stepping into the vanishing places you become ever more visible, and some sort of utterance about almond blossoms, or pine scent, creeps in, and is an ever more ascendant resplendant more ever more fantastic thing like a wheel, in whose motionless centre, surely nothing more everything has been thought of Chinese more perpetual perpetual or unperpetual could be found. Or was. All things - chroniclers, characters, boots, bolts, old boats, or conversations whispered in the hall - pour out the spat old book. That'll teach `em to bible things. Getting nowhere, as is our wont, we won't. And the p-pages flutter in the wind, leafing and briefing themselves, while all the while the while, the demon-sized head, shapes itself and crushes out the bolty magic: god or no god. That is in a book I did called RED but I chose it at random. now -more so than RED which goes somewhat like this (I have friends ho know it off by heart I cant do that - one pwoman ahws put it to music as a kind of song - I have heard it: Addendunm: I ve decided to type it all out as I will tansfer it to my PC now: The Red The blocks of red on red on red by black around by black by black by line by line by round. The red in red of red in red where black by back the white around. Around the bound about the white the red more red comes up the red, It rears its head. The eye the see the sight to see. The eye the see the light the sight. And light, The light not light not bright not dim not sun. The sun not round not up not down, The blue not there not green not grey. The grey ungrey not grey not black . The up not down the down not up. And the black not black not black on night. The light alight but light not light. The clock is dead. The clock awake alive like head. The head like blood like hot is red. The squares the slabs the reds the blocks are chops of chunks: the chunks the chunks the bits. The monks. And the red the red and round the black. (There is no black). To you my red my square my thing:I fall and blubber like a sun-struck king. The red on red of red the blocks. The orange the green the blue. The see the the sight the steel the grey. The shape the tall the dark the great. The high the high.The finger like a finger on the sky. The eye the seen. The green. O my blocks my reds my reds my blocks: orange is not is gnomes is gone. And the red in red. (There is no red) The square that's not that's never that's there. If red be red not _is_ not green: Then red on red of red is you my thing. And if that is you by blocks by black are red around. And black is black as black is black. And red is red is red. I want to get this so that the stanzas are as rectangular as possible but it is hard on an email. I was influenced here by Stein etc and also maybe Beckett. But at the time and for some time afterwords - and largely still - I didnt want poetry that "meant" things per se - I wanted poetry to be a kind of music - not a new idea - but I was moving away totally from the idea of :mesages" of any kind in poetry. Later I was influenced by reading Trakl and Reverdy and poets in Europe. I try to get a German Egmlish edition etc as I dont have much command of any langauge but English (but I love reading poems in German French etc when I have a good translation beside them).... But back to the politics discussion - probably what I said before wasnt much of an answer for you but I dont think that we should take potilics or any other subject on your list list below elsewhere - to look at a poet I just got interested ( a bit more intensely than I had done before I mean) in a few months back - Schuyler )_ I spotted a book on the NY poets and read a lot of Schuyler's poetry again - one poem especially that I loved was 'The Morning of the Poem' ; another was his Picnic Cantata (made into an opera by the way by Paul Bowles) ..but the point is these guys - O'Hara - Ashbery Schuyler (esp) Elmsie, Guest, Kenneth Koch and others (of course there is Ted Berrigan who was a but later timewise) found everything a subject for there poems - "trivia" is in The Morning of the Poem just as we get through its subjective flow (or seeming subjective flow) certain moments of darkness and doubt enter in and there is love and longing and fear and back to trivia and memories and so on and so on. With Schuyler the right to talk deeply of felt love and what he had for breakfast coexists brilliantly - off course we dont all want to talk about breakfasts ! But we coud do - why not? - I see it all as potentialy interesting - despite your comical approach to it below - I dont mind that ... I see what you are getting at. But look at the various poets on here - they are ful of politics, poetics, and "trivia" of various kind - neither politics or any oter subject diminishes what they write. I dont think we should separate politics out of the list (unless either the Poetics Moderators or a largish majority want to abreak from overt politics - my suspicion is that some who do are actually frightened of some of the ideas surfacing - I see it as healthy to voice what we are thinkng - warts and all - feet, Jesus, dancing, bunions, shoes , sandwiches....as Louis Zukofsky said: " Politics is what makes us human" Who said "Life is a gigantic poem" ? I don't know - but I DO know that I wrote "Richard Taylor's mind is like an enormous ice cream" on the blurb of my very tatty Chapbook called "Singing in the Slaugter House" Richard Taylor. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Malcolm Davidson" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 10:45 PM > Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) > > > > I said this: > > > > > For a list I thought was about poetry, there's an awful lot of talk > > > about politics here. When your discussion becomes more politics than > > > poetics, isn't it time to take your discussion elsewhere? > > > > And you, apparently in answer (because you quote the above), said this: > > > > > What? Poets don't talk about politics? Shouldn't talk of politics? > > > Politicians shouldn't write poetry?Are not we poets part of the > political > > > "spectrum" - it is arguable (not thereby provable of course) that > poetics = > > > politics. Charles Bernstein and some of the other Language poets make a > more > > > or less strong case for this view > > > language/poetics/politics/art/sociology/psychology ..everything is in > > > somehow connected. > > > > But it doesn't read like an answer: > > > > "Poets don't talk about politics?" -- does not follow from original > statement. > > > > "Shouldn't talk of politics?" -- does not follow from original statement. > > > > "Politicians shouldn't write poetry?" -- does not follow from > > original statement. > > > > "Are not we poets part of the political "spectrum" - it is arguable > > (not thereby provable of course) that poetics = > politics." -- No > > one said poets aren't political. No one said bus drivers aren't > > political. > > > > But you are correct in asserting that "everything is...connected." > > > > We all live somewhere. It is arguable that we are all architects, that > > we each create our architecture by being complicit in its design and > > use, by allowing some buildings to be and other buildings to be > > destroyed, by financially supporting one type of building and not > > another. Let us chatter about architecture. We should use the list to > > distribute pictures of our favorite buildings and to raise money for > > our building development plans. I have a quagmire in Florida that you > > may be interested in. > > > > We all eat. We all are eaten. Eat or be eaten. Let's swap recipes. How > > about pies for the holidays? I have a darling "Alaskan Snow Pie" > > recipe. > > > > We all have teeth. Let us talk dentistry. Everyone grin. _Now_. (You, > > there. Yes, you. You have something caught between your upper left > > cuspid and the adjacent lateral incisor. It appears to be a hair or a > > bristle. A spine.) > > > > We all are physicians or ought to be. The body is all we have, and the > > mind, which is the body anyway. Want to see my bunions? Want to touch > > my bunions? Aren't they smooth and warm? Often the first step in a > > treatment plan, a normal, active life. Taping helps keep the foot in a > > normal position, thus reducing stress and pain. I call them "Paul" and > > "Babe". > > > > We all wear shoes. We all are Jesus or have Jesus in our hearts or are > > in the heart of Jesus, the heart of hearts, brethren, when we know it > > not, hallelujah, amen, etc. We all drive or are driven. We all wash > > clothes or have them washed for us. We all make sandwiches or choose > > not to make sandwiches, and there is ham vs. peanut butter and jelly. > > We all dance or should; those who do not should not be trusted. We all > > breathe. > > > > There are so many things to chatter about. Unfortunately, there are no > > other places to talk of such things. It is such a sad, sad situation > > -- when, oh, when will someone fix the internet? -- that there are all > > these conversations we need to have, and only one place, this poetics > > list, where all these conversations can be held. Simultaneously. > > > > Malcolm > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 11:13:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: in those days, ashbery (question) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Ashbery's poem "In Those Days" is in the New Yorker. Does anyone know if this is published in one of his collections? Thanks in advance, Deborah Poe In Those Days John Ashbery Music, food, sex, and their accompanying tropes like a wall of light at a door once spattered by laughter come round to how _you_ like it-- was it really you that approved? And if so what does the loneliness in all this mean? How blind are we? We see a few feet into our future of shrouded lots and ditches. Surely that was was the long one to have come. Yet nobody sees anything wrong with what we're doing, how we came to discuss it, here, with the wind and the sun sometimes slanting. You have arrived at this step, and the way down is paralyzing, though this is the lost youth I remember as being O.K., once. Got to shuffle, even if it's only the sarcasm of speech that gets lost, while the blessed sense of it bleeds through, open to all kinds of interpretations. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 10:16:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Brazilian Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jim thanks I will put up the links- asap R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Jim Andrews > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 12:54 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Brazilian Poetry > > > > > > So I am interested, Buffalo Listers, in how we can > > internationalize the > > > > conversation here on the list I am interested in what all of > > > you think about > > > > poetry as a global artform and how we as poets in this milleu > > > can dialogue > > > > with poets from other places. We will be doing Country > > > Profiles in the next > > > > 6 months of Polish Poetry, Bengali Poetry, Italian Poetry and > > > Chinese Poetry > > > > and I hope that this dialogue continues to grow- > > > > > > > > > > > > RB > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > > > > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > > > > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > i have been enjoying your > http://www.chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/brazil.htm > page on brazilian poets. thank you. > > allow me to recommend some great sites by brazilian writers/artists. > > concerning internationalizing the dialog, it is important to be in contact > with poets who also are interested in internationalizing the > dialog. the net > is a very good thing for international communications and being > able to see > the work of other people from around the world. and the combination of > text/visuals/sound/interactivity etc sometimes make for work that is > 'already translated'. > > MUSEUM OF THE ESSENTIAL AND BEYOND THAT > http://www.arteonline.arq.br > this is regina célia pinto's site. the site contains her own work and her > vast curatorial efforts at publishing global poetry and net.art > > NETART.ORG.UY > http://netart.org.uy > brian mackern's site. > > ANA MARIA URIBE > http://www.vispo.com/uribe > site of the late great argentine visual poet ana maria uribe. > > BRAZILIAN DIGITAL POETRY > http://vispo.com/misc/BrazilianDigitalPoetry.htm > a page of links, maintained by jorge luiz antonio, to sites concerning > brazilian digital poetry > > CONCRETISMO > http://concretismo.zip.net > victor az's blog of concrete/net poetry. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 10:02:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: FW: Bill Moyer Enlightens In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable A poet friend woke up my day with the forward of this address by Bill Moyer= s on the environment as coupled with theology, rapture, etc. What makes this interesting for me is the devil in the details. Wow. Parenthetically - in a current moment where many of 'us' still seem to be walking around in the daze from a 'technical knockout' called an election - Signs of organization, resistance, public upheaval and rejection will be welcome news to - I am sure - many of our ears. I don't think we can take this 'lying' down for the next 4 etc. years Stephen V On Receiving Harvard Med's Global Environment Citizen Award By Bill Moyers t r u t h o u t | Perspective Wednesday 01 December 2004 I accept this award on behalf of all the people behind the camera whom you never see. And for all those scientists, advocates, activists, and just plain citizens whose stories we have covered in reporting on how environmental change affects our daily lives. We journalists are simply beachcombers on the shores of other people's knowledge, other people's experience, and other people's wisdom. We tell their stories. The journalist who truly deserves this award is my friend, Bill McKibben. He enjoys the most conspicuous place in my own pantheon of journalistic heroes for his pioneer work in writing about the environment. His bestseller "The End of Nature" carried on where Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring" left off. Writing in Mother Jones recently, Bill described how the problems we journalists routinely cover - conventional, manageable programs like budget shortfalls and pollution - may be about to convert to chaotic, unpredictable, unmanageable situations. The most unmanageable of all, he writes, could be the accelerating deterioration of the environment, creating perils with huge momentum like the greenhouse effect that is causing the melt of the artic to release so much freshwater into the North Atlantic that even the Pentagon is growing alarmed that a weakening gulf stream could yield abrupt and overwhelming changes, the kind of changes that could radically alter civilizations. That's one challenge we journalists face - how to tell such a story without coming across as Cassandras, without turning off the people we most want to understand what's happening, who must act on what they read and hear. As difficult as it is, however, for journalists to fashion a readable narrative for complex issues without depressing our readers and viewers, there is an even harder challenge - to pierce the ideology that governs official policy today. One of the biggest changes in politics in my lifetime is that the delusional is no longer marginal. It has come in from the fringe, to sit in the seat of power in the oval office and in Congress. For the first time in our history, ideology and theology hold a monopoly of power in Washington. Theology asserts propositions that cannot be proven true; ideologues hold stoutly to a world view despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality. When ideology and theology couple, their offspring are not always bad but they are always blind. And there is the danger: voters and politicians alike, oblivious to the facts. Remember James Watt, President Reagan's first Secretary of the Interior? My favorite online environmental journal, the ever engaging Grist, reminded us recently of how James Watt told the U.S. Congress that protecting natural resources was unimportant in light of the imminent return of Jesus Christ. In public testimony he said, "after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back." Beltway elites snickered. The press corps didn't know what he was talking about. But James Watt was serious. So were his compatriots out across the country. They are the people who believe the bible is literally true - one-third of the American electorate, if a recent Gallup poll is accurate. In this past election several million good and decent citizens went to the polls believing in the rapture index. That's right - the rapture index. Google it and you will find that the best-selling books in America today are the twelve volumes of the left-behind series written by the Christian fundamentalist and religious right warrior, Timothy LaHaye. These true believers subscribe to a fantastical theology concocted in the 19th century by a couple of immigrant preachers who took disparate passages from the Bible and wove them into a narrative that has captivated the imagination of millions of Americans. Its outline is rather simple, if bizarre (the British writer George Monbiot recently did a brilliant dissection of it and I am indebted to him for adding to my own understanding): once Israel has occupied the rest of its 'biblical lands,' legions of the anti-Christ will attack it, triggering a final showdown in the valley of Armageddon. As the Jews who have not been converted are burned, the messiah will return for the rapture. True believers will be lifted out of their clothes and transported to heaven, where, seated next to the right hand of God, they will watch their political and religious opponents suffer plagues of boils, sores, locusts, and frogs during the several years of tribulation that follow. I'm not making this up. Like Monbiot, I've read the literature. I've reported on these people, following some of them from Texas to the West Bank. They are sincere, serious, and polite as they tell you they feel called to help bring the rapture on as fulfillment of biblical prophecy. That's why they have declared solidarity with Israel and the Jewish settlements and backed up their support with money and volunteers. It's why the invasion of Iraq for them was a warm-up act, predicted in the Book of Revelations where four angels 'which are bound in the great river Euphrates will be released to slay the third part of man.' A war with Islam in the Middle East is not something to be feared but welcomed - an essential conflagration on the road to redemption. The last time I Googled it, the rapture index stood at 144-just one point below the critical threshold when the whole thing will blow, the son of god will return, the righteous will enter heaven, and sinners will be condemned to eternal hellfire. So what does this mean for public policy and the environment? Go to Grist to read a remarkable work of reporting by the journalist, Glenn Scherer - "The Road to Environmental Apocalypse." Read it and you will see how millions of Christian fundamentalists may believe that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed - even hastened - as a sign of the coming apocalypse. As Grist makes clear, we're not talking about a handful of fringe lawmakers who hold or are beholden to these beliefs. Nearly half the U.S. Congress before the recent election - 231 legislators in total - more since the election - are backed by the religious right. Forty-five senators and 186 members of the 108th congress earned 80 to 100 percent approval ratings from the three most influential Christian right advocacy groups. They include Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, Assistant Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Conference Chair Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, Policy Chair Jon Kyl of Arizona, House Speaker Dennis Hastert, and Majority Whip Roy Blunt. The only Democrat to score 100 percent with the Christian coalition was Senator Zell Miller of Georgia, who recently quoted from the biblical book of Amos on the senate floor: "the days will come, sayeth the Lord God, that i will send a famine in the land." he seemed to be relishing the thought. And why not? There's a constituency for it. A 2002 TIME/CNN poll found that 59 percent of Americans believe that the prophecies found in the book of Revelations are going to come true. Nearly one-quarter think the Bible predicted the 9/11 attacks. Drive across the country with your radio tuned to the more than 1,600 Christian radio stations or in the motel turn some of the 250 Christian TV stations and you can hear some of this end-time gospel. And you will come to understand why people under the spell of such potent prophecies cannot be expected, as Grist puts it, "to worry about the environment. Why care about the earth when the droughts, floods, famine and pestilence brought by ecological collapse are signs of the apocalypse foretold in the bible? Why care about global climate change when you and yours will be rescued in the rapture? And why care about converting from oil to solar when the same god who performed the miracle of the loaves and fishes can whip up a few billion barrels of light crude with a word?" Because these people believe that until Christ does return, the lord will provide. One of their texts is a high school history book, America's providential history. You'll find there these words: "the secular or socialist has a limited resource mentality and views the world as a pie...that needs to be cut up so everyone can get a piece.' however, "[t]he Christian knows that the potential in god is unlimited and that there is no shortage of resources in god's earth......while many secularists view the world as overpopulated, Christians know that god has made the earth sufficiently large with plenty of resources to accommodate all of the people." No wonder Karl Rove goes around the White House whistling that militant hymn, "Onward Christian Soldiers." He turned out millions of the foot soldiers on November 2, including many who have made the apocalypse a powerful driving force in modern American politics. I can see in the look on your faces just how had it is for the journalist to report a story like this with any credibility. So let me put it on a personal level. I myself don't know how to be in this world without expecting a confident future and getting up every morning to do what I can to bring it about. So I have always been an optimist. Now, however, I think of my friend on Wall Street whom I once asked: "What do you think of the market?" "I'm optimistic," he answered. "Then why do you look so worried?" And he answered: "Because I am not sure my optimism is justified." I'm not, either. Once upon a time I agreed with the Eric Chivian and the Center for Health and the Global Environment that people will protect the natural environment when they realize its importance to their health and to the health and lives of their children. Now I am not so sure. It's not that I don't want to believe that - it's just that I read the news and connect the dots: I read that the administrator of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has declared the election a mandate for President Bush on the environment. This for an administration that wants to rewrite the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act and the Endangered Species Act protecting rare plant and animal species and their habitats, as well as the National Environmental Policy Act that requires the government to judge beforehand if actions might damage natural resources. That wants to relax pollution limits for ozone; eliminate vehicle tailpipe inspections; and ease pollution standards for cars, sports utility vehicles and diesel-powered big trucks and heavy equipment. That wants a new international audit law to allow corporations to keep certain information about environmental problems secret from the public. That wants to drop all its new-source review suits against polluting coal-fired power plans and weaken consent decrees reached earlier with coal companies. That wants to open the artic wildlife refuge to drilling and increase drilling in Padre Island National Seashore, the longest stretch of undeveloped barrier island in the world and the last great coastal wild land in America. I read the news just this week and learned how the Environmental Protection Agency had planned to spend nine million dollars - $2 million of it from the administration's friends at the American Chemistry Council - to pay poor families to continue to use pesticides in their homes. These pesticides have been linked to neurological damage in children, but instead of ordering an end to their use, the government and the industry were going to offer the families $970 each, as well as a camcorder and children's clothing, to serve as guinea pigs for the study. I read all this in the news. I read the news just last night and learned that the administration's friends at the international policy network, which is supported by Exxon Mobile and others of like mind, have issued a new report that climate change is 'a myth,' sea levels are not rising, scientists who believe catastrophe is possible are 'an embarrassment.' I not only read the news but the fine print of the recent appropriations bill passed by Congress, with the obscure (and obscene) riders attached to it: a clause removing all endangered species protections from pesticides; language prohibiting judicial review for a forest in Oregon; a waiver of environmental review for grazing permits on public lands; a rider pressed by developers to weaken protection for crucial habitats in California. I read all this and look up at the pictures on my desk, next to the computer - pictures of my grandchildren: Henry, age 12; of Thomas, age 10; of Nancy, 7; Jassie, 3; Sara Jane, nine months. I see the future looking back at me from those photographs and I say, "Father, forgive us, for we know now what we do." And then I am stopped short by the thought: "That's not right. We do know what we are doing. We are stealing their future. Betraying their trust. Despoiling their world." And I ask myself: Why? Is it because we don't care? Because we are greedy? Because we have lost our capacity for outrage, our ability to sustain indignation at injustice? What has happened to out moral imagination? On the heath Lear asks Gloucester: "'How do you see the world?" And Gloucester, who is blind, answers: "I see it feelingly." I see it feelingly. The news is not good these days. I can tell you, though, that as a journalist I know the news is never the end of the story. The news can be the truth that sets us free - not only to feel but to fight for the future we want. And the will to fight is the antidote to despair, the cure for cynicism, and the answer to those faces looking back at me from those photographs on my desk. What we need to match the science of human health is what the ancient Israelites called 'hocma' - the science of the heart.....the capacity to see....to feel....and then to act...as if the future depended on you. Believe me, it does. "Not the city lights. We want -the moon- The Moon none of our own doing!" =8BRae Armantrout Stefanie Marlis 415-459-2920 cell 520-394-2244 land www.stefaniemarlis.com ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:14:03 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Subject: New titles from xPress(ed) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New titles from xPress(ed): andrew topel & jim leftwich: allies mark young: calligraphies annmarie eldon: 27 Poems rochelle ratner: Leah john m. bennett: glue vernon frazer: avenue noir halvard johnson: Theory of Harmony andrew lundwall: a calendar page from the edge of form joey madia: New Mystic Alchemy clayton a. couch: familiar bifurcations donna kuhn: rent a tart michael helsem: IPOMOEA gregory vincent st. thomasino: Stephen's Lake (a novel in parts) jeff harrison: Lives of Eminent Assyrians thomas lowe taylor: short harry k stammer: (little) Tokyo steve dalachinsky: arrivin in the okidoke All chaps are in PDF-format and freely available from http://www.xpressed.org Also two hardcopy POD-titles: tim gaze: writing gregory vincent st. thomasino: Stephen's Lake (a novel in parts) Address for POD-titles is http://www.lulu.com/xpressed Hope you enjoy ! Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen xPress(ed) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 12:15:46 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: ...no king but... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ...no king but... OH MASTER OH MASTER OH MASTER OH MASTER OH MA ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha we beseech thy ___ + ___ eyes ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha sweet + sure - sly - sick - tight - sad - salt - squint - sharp - deep - dark - bright - dazed - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha sly + sure - sweet - sick - tight - sad - salt - squint - sharp - deep - dark - bright - dazed - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha sick + sure - sweet - sly - tight - sad - salt - squint - sharp - deep - dark - bright - dazed - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha tight + sure - sweet - sly - sick - sad - salt - squint - sharp - deep - dark - bright - dazed - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha sad + sure - sweet - sly - sick - tight - salt - squint - sharp - deep - dark - bright - dazed - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha salt + sure - sweet - sly - sick - tight - sad - squint - sharp - deep - dark - bright - dazed - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha squint + sure - sweet - sly - sick - tight - sad - salt - sharp - deep - dark - bright - dazed - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha sharp + sure - sweet - sly - sick - tight - sad - salt - squint - deep - dark - bright - dazed - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha deep + sure - sweet - sly - sick - tight - sad - salt - squint - sharp - dark - bright - dazed - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha dark + sure - sweet - sly - sick - tight - sad - salt - squint - sharp - deep - bright - dazed - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha bright + sure - sweet - sly - sick - tight - sad - salt squint - sharp - deep - dark - dazed - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha dazed + sure - sweet - sly - sick - tight - sad - salt - squint - sharp - deep - dark - bright - cold – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha cold + sure - sweet - sly - sick - tight - sad - salt - squint - sharp - deep - dark - bright - dazed – ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha SURESWEETMASTERSWEETMASTERSWEETMASTERSURE ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:03:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Just some nonsense, gets kinda boring by the end, but re: Christianity and Serial Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Strictly Cereal Christians There are no true Christians. "There are no christians?" There are many good people who call themselves Christian. There are too many bad people who call themselves christians. "What's the difference between a good Christian and a bad Christian?" I don't understand the question. "Well, I mean, is a good Christian one who=20 has faith in God? And a bad Christian one who has does not have any faith at all?" There are people who call themselves good Christians and do not have any faith at all, I suppose. "You are intransigently biased against Christians, aren't you, or should I say people, good or bad, who call themselves Christians?" Yes, you should frame the question with=20 your latter clause. Yes, I am sometimes biased against people, both good and bad, who call themselves Christian. It is not a good bias, frankly. All people need what they need to live their lives and=20 make their lives meaningful, after all. That includes people who call themselves christians. "So maybe you need to be biased against bad people who call themselves Christians?" Don't we all? No, seriously, my bias doesn't go deep enough, often. "What should we do about this Faith thing? Can we do anything about it?" Heaven knows that we can accept=20 the fact that we have it. "What? Faith or the Faith thing?" Both, but you meant the Faith thing. Well, what do YOU think we should=20 do about it, if we can in fact do anything about it? I have faith in your power=20 to answer the question yourself. "I meant the Faith in God thing,=20 and I asked you first." What do I look like, a God thing, for chrissakes! "No, but..." Well, then I may disappoint you=20 here. I think that all we can do=20 is develop more faith in each other and that that will take care of the Faith in God thing. "Then you mean we need to=20 get rid of the Faith in God=20 thing. Why should that=20 disappoint me?" No, you cannot get rid=20 of the Faith in God thing. I said that I believe we can only develop more faith in each other. "Keep the faith, then. That's what you're saying." Probably. Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:12:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the intensities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the intensities 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 9 wandering aimlessly through the forest. You are 4 through the forest. You are wandering aimlessly 2 through the forest. You are wandering aimlessly 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 4 2 5 Tell me all. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 4 4 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 so there's this and that this remnant 2 2 2 2 5 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 You say, "i am dangerous second by second" 2 You say, "fear me" 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 always and always 57 always and always 4 2 3 2 4 # # # 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 4 2 2 2 2 27 PAGEPAGEPAGEPAGEPAGEPAGEPAGE 9 PAGEPAGEPAGEPAGEPAGEPAGEPAGE 6 PAGEPAGEPAGEPAGEPAGEPAGEPAGE 3 SVRj 2 _^[] 2 FILE0 2 FILE0 2 FILE0 2 FILE0 3 FILE0 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 3 2 breastsbreastsbreastsbreastsbr eastsbreastsbreasts" + 2 breastsbreastsbreastsbreastsbr eastsbreastsbreastsbreasts + 2 breastsbreastsbreastsbreastsbr eastsbreastsbreastsbreasts + 3 breastsbreastsbreastsbreastsbr eastsbreastsbreasts " + 2 breastsbreastsbreastsbreastsbr eastsbreastsbreasts + 2 breastsbreastsbreastsbreastsbr eastsbreastsbreasts+ 2 2 2 2 2 Raw Time Net Time Raw Time Net Time 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 unstable.ob ob /radio playlist. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 stormtroops stormtroops stormtroops stormtroops stormtroops 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 ..... 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 4 5 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 Subject: Re: Ah dear Alan 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 5 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 18 |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| 2 2 2 2 2 reverse 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 Nikuko speaks: 4 destroyshesaid 2 3 2 3 2 2 4 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 they say 3 9 380 on black stone 2 2 3 2 2 3 2 2 S:__% 2 N_: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 dead man's switch 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 y 2 3 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 no the dance of you get the picture 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 nd: write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:28:40 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: U.S. Meddling in Ukraine Exposed! Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press U.S. Meddling in Ukraine Exposed!: U.S. Money Helped Opposition in Ukraine: Bush, Cheney Machine Rigs Another Election: Promises to Turn Former USSR States into Banana Republics: By VASILI JELLEY They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 13:42:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: identify russian author & title? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII a long time ago, i read a short story (or perhaps a novel?) by a Russian writer . . . the only thing that i remember about it at this point is that it was set in a totalitarian society, and so strong was the grip of collective imperative that the people eating in a cafeteria seemed to be chewing their food with metronomic regularity . . . (reminds me now of that scene in a Simpsons episode in which the students, under the strict control of Principal Skinner, are marching down the hall in unison & even blinking in unison . . .) it's that word, "metronome," that has stuck with me over the years (being at the time a music student, it made an impression on me), and i'd like to go back and read the story again. i know my memory of the story/novel is sketchy, but can anyone identify it for me? camille Camille Martin 7712 Cohn St., Apt. A New Orleans, LA 70118 (504) 865-7821 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:01:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Moyers:where to write email him Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Since so many of you have replied to the Moyer's address on the environment, I have learned his professional email address - if you would like to send him a note of good cheer, support, etc: Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:22:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 8 Dec 2004 to 9 Dec 2004 (#2004-344) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard, This is a lot for me to take in. What I can say is that with my Jewish = heritage I still look at other Jewish "normative, separatist" groups as = almost un-Jewish. It's like taking something to an extreme annhilates = its substance. The non-religious Zionists I have lived with and the = ultra-orthodox Chassidics I have lived with are Jewish people who have = turned Judaism into a separatist group. So they stand apart from other Jews. Like Language poets stand apart = from other poets. This reminds me of Breton or Freud and how they would ex-communicate = heretics. You are either with them or against them. This is what starts wars. Someone has to be right. There is no compromise. Someone has to win. Then you have clerics who perpetuate the separatism, like language poet = critics with blogs. This is the poison, the partisan, separatist behavior. It's always like this. And it's based on the fear of surrendering your self-will to a higher = power. The higher power of poetry is Venus of course, the Goddess of Harmony, = Music. Groups like the Language poets serve a different higher power, = they serve Saturn, or Kronos, the God who eats his children. The religious clerics and the language poet blog critics try to = appropriate the higher power into their self, thus becoming a dogmatic = leader with a fanatical herd-consciousness group of followers who are = too afraid to trust in themselves and need to give away their power and = trust in an authority figure. It's interesting to me how we are talking about poetry and being Jewish. = And the parallels between Zionists, Ultraorthodox Jews and Language = Poets. It's also interesting that the behavior of language poet leaders = is not unlike the behavior of the leaders of the state of Israel.=20 It's interesting, and it's not surprising at all because this is human = nature. To be devisive, to carve out a small territory and defend it = against outsiders, or terrorists. In the case of Israelies, they are holding onto land that belongs to = everyone. Americans do not share "our" land with Native Americans who = are a "sub-class" of human beings. And Israel does not share "their" = land with the "sub-human" Palestinians. It reminds me also of the MAG and how (when I was still involved in the = daily operation of it) groups of poets would be offended when I would = publish the work of poets from different groups in the same issue. Or = poets who were indendent and unaffilated. It's all about people being the same on a basic level, which is a simple = fact. But how this simple fact is denied out of fear, and thus groups, = sects, cells, bands - call it what you will - form and battle with each = other, over who is right and who is wrong. August --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:25:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: The Book of Brueckl Part 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Book of Brueckl - Part 3 perfectly calculable stutter of holiness, the limp structure of the shore of wounds, hollow gloss of gravity: when they feel anxious, unread, the enduring insertion of lovers' dawns, malignant sky of antiquity, revealing lead pencils shedding no one can never be nearly this difference between breaths, raveling speech stranded inside the bubbled lair: undone: woke up: startlingly electric blue sky: tattered breath trajectories hardened particularly startled declensions in derision: Not even differentiated hyacinths' diminished wounds insinuate pangs of vaporous consternation in technicolor, achingly shining, dissolving: styrofoam pillars sunken, scruples of Jesse, gradual green atrocities sharply melting madrigals: flames coinciding with an agitated piece of sunlight peeping into the corrosive hours, brittle pretexts bickering: I, too, debilitated: intense sheer lines leap: wrinkled mechanisms attaching themselves to the bubbled lair: undone: woke up: startlingly electric blue sky: tattered breath of the beyond: bluntly belied, stirring: imbibe: elbow murmur, insect twine braided under the scented niche: identical: it was in spits presence: never: I cannot forget it: actual description shedding angles, oftener sublime light's agonized cadence: Bosoms transcend the fraudulent delirium of holiness, the spacious factory, in derision, as it is: no difference, creeping, rock chatter: not very nearly being there: perquisite eucalyptus, magnolia, raffia, ilex, berry, aigrette, pheasant feathers, shimmery butchery, barbed mish-mash within the breakable scum: transformed cobwebs confiscating the reluctance of unmeaning numbers often wrested from out of tangled flaws' germination drainage, corpses of affectation, rupture of boredom, feelingly assimilating alphabets of night transcend the text, the lonely cadence of textured darkness: outflanked fiery eyebrows prostrated obliquely, naive motions, umbilical limbs all around: infringed dialect submerged in the unreal: outside, the unreal: outside, the impure sounds: undefiled tenses suppressed, debilitated lips, stunned ghosts' naked diversions: wretched wheezes, interchangeable gapes, rasping lovers locating the silvery light's faint splendor: remembered ember of memory discern your wrist: it is an empty pyx: nobody divided the rim of praise: trench mouth wind glory: the audacity of disturbed decisions' hysterical bulges dripping precisely giddy rivulets drained out of aloes arising: squandered stag rusted hollow, nuanced, tilted down, grasping, curling: welded drone receding, lilacs in adoration, coming from eons ago: dead paradise's arc doomed: can never insolvent, always wafting aeration: here, blurred, striated: to see the luggage of the breathing tissue of bruised sprinkles: exactness inserted, faked: Hear it, sunbeams out of the audacity of the tedious absence of breath fiercely glimpsed, displaced not only hollow rectilinear arrowheads under the diminished bosom, airy pangs in ditches surging against haughty crawling words' bosoms' bones, diminishing gradually when rambling brackets of mirrors, the vehicle of earshot, unanimous sacs unthought, appositely ecstatic lips never losing their impotence in this is never, I peed some icky stuff on a sacred reaction to be there is eaten: scathes: chasms of pleasure fatigued, the text, the fraudulent delirium of death speckled and broken: holy vertical and figural: in pre-delineated flames' transient intimacy: anguish of unmeaning numbers often limpid, very likely quivering, disoriented: hourly canticles of tormented moments, assays enemas' commas obtruding on the retracting sediments on codicils beforehand: muffled compunction: what about it: actual description shedding no one can be: jackal of cerulean wheatfields' fallopian leaves: darker maniacal crackling, stuttering carapace, sleepy quincunxes, aching rain, graceful stillness, marigold exposure: they feel anxious, unread, the footstools of eternity's cells stoking the wretchedness of evergreens' swollen clutter, inert nouns dazed: waking pod, mired cortex: I desire an object within, rarer than raw, that billowed when rambling brackets of gold-fringed blossoms are undefiled tenses suppressed, debilitated lips, stunned ghosts' naked diversions: wretched wheezes, interchangeable gapes, rasping lovers locating the desert of the square root of breath trajectories hardened particularly to tutelary irises, speechless as it was to be, wrath of lovers' dawns, malignant sky of the machinery of textured darkness: outflanked fiery eyebrows prostrated obliquely, naive motions, umbilical limbs all in illuminated goggles, slashed the diminished bosom, spirals' pangs, listening seeds: dead paradise's arc doomed: can you in flames coinciding around the root of effectual dustiness, winded hassles, floating rectitude leaking, collapsing: useless spores of sounds, the impure identity of holiness, the breath trajectories hardened particularly to oblivion's abandoned cords: disinterred chords clanging in strung-out mists' cawing daisies, excavated from out of bruised sprinkles: exactness inserted, faked: Hear it, sunbeams out of stinking whispers puffing, ulcered, coming from the grinding cavity, the breath woven endlessly, copious dosages, rectangular apodal afterthoughts blackened: finally, desperately, ah, wounds glowing, trickling in, musky: abandoned cords: disinterred chords clanging in the feebly foaming motion of night transcend the apotheosis of the savage robin's egg blue sky: tattered flashes: lost eyelash in the ailanthus: suddenly swerving to and relighted impatiently, dead ache seen as you can know: underneath, gazing undone, ecstatic lips never be nearly often wrested from out of lovers' dawns, malignant sky of differences desiring sieved wombs, the sentences of eternity's cells stoking the vehicle of the ultimate inevitable: exactly as it feels dusk belittles the quarry of malversation: will they came with an apparent interruption, leaning on the skin of wincing whitecaps' fetid wakes litigating the invisible scent of love: felt odor's chilly omission, very nearly this difference between breaths, raveling speech stranded inside the length and relighted impatiently, dead wood wholly saturated on the moment outside light's thicket, perfectly pulsating and prolonged, a sacred reaction to be heartbreak's curse in the fraudulent delirium of night transcend the ailanthus: suddenly swerving to the damp antennae eluding the breathing propositions shrieking: swooning lichen bone, inaudible dilemma attributed to afflictions of holiness, the tedious absence of thorns, hours out and urinating in spits presence: never: I peed some icky stuff on the moonlight when they came with the ultimate inevitable: exactly as it was, impending crux of Jesse, gradual green atrocities sharply melting madrigals: flames of wave-pierced illusions: technical squiggles, open-mouthed wherewithal: August Highland the visual work of August Highland is at the www.august-highland.com online studio the literary work of August Highland is at the www.litob.com project center all media projects of August Highland are at the www.cultureanimal.com global headquarters the international literary journal, the MAG, published by August = Highland is at the www.muse-apprentice-guild.com website where submissions = guidelines for poetry and fiction and deadline information can be found --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:27:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Fwd: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > > On 9-Dec-04, at 6:59 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> Stalin, that great friend of the Jews, established a Jewish homeland >> on the >> Pacific coast of Siberia. > > It was on the coast? Since when? > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 13:38:07 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The Book of Brueckl Part 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is interesting - but August how to "place" your poetics on the line -if there is a line - betwixt say the symbolists, the romantic surrealists such as Dylan Thomas, George Barker etal: Roethke (?) (somewhat a "confessional"), to (let's jump) to the denseness of Koch of 'The Suns Tries to Go On' (it doesnt "flow" as your work here does - and is perhaps more deliberately disjuncted./disjointed)....................................... ..................with the verbal and semantic/syntactic acrobatics (albeit they are by and large more "deliberate" ... more informed perhaps by certain liguistics/poetic/philosohic/poetic concepts or domains) and others - you were saying something about the language poets before - but your work here (I've looke at it fairly quicky there is some energetic and fascinting ideation/imagery here) has a "languagy" complexion -no? ? Clearly of course this is part fo larger work so it neds to be seen in totum.... Good stuff anycase Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "August" To: Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: Re: The Book of Brueckl Part 3 The Book of Brueckl - Part 3 perfectly calculable stutter of holiness, the limp structure of the shore of wounds, hollow gloss of gravity: when they feel anxious, unread, the enduring insertion of lovers' dawns, malignant sky of antiquity, revealing lead pencils shedding no one can never be nearly this difference between breaths, raveling speech stranded inside the bubbled lair: undone: woke up: startlingly electric blue sky: tattered breath trajectories hardened particularly startled declensions in derision: Not even differentiated hyacinths' diminished wounds insinuate pangs of vaporous consternation in technicolor, achingly shining, dissolving: styrofoam pillars sunken, scruples of Jesse, gradual green atrocities sharply melting madrigals: flames coinciding with an agitated piece of sunlight peeping into the corrosive hours, brittle pretexts bickering: I, too, debilitated: intense sheer lines leap: wrinkled mechanisms attaching themselves to the bubbled lair: undone: woke up: startlingly electric blue sky: tattered breath of the beyond: bluntly belied, stirring: imbibe: elbow murmur, insect twine braided under the scented niche: identical: it was in spits presence: never: I cannot forget it: actual description shedding angles, oftener sublime light's agonized cadence: Bosoms transcend the fraudulent delirium of holiness, the spacious factory, in derision, as it is: no difference, creeping, rock chatter: not very nearly being there: perquisite eucalyptus, magnolia, raffia, ilex, berry, aigrette, pheasant feathers, shimmery butchery, barbed mish-mash within the breakable scum: transformed cobwebs confiscating the reluctance of unmeaning numbers often wrested from out of tangled flaws' germination drainage, corpses of affectation, rupture of boredom, feelingly assimilating alphabets of night transcend the text, the lonely cadence of textured darkness: outflanked fiery eyebrows prostrated obliquely, naive motions, umbilical limbs all around: infringed dialect submerged in the unreal: outside, the unreal: outside, the impure sounds: undefiled tenses suppressed, debilitated lips, stunned ghosts' naked diversions: wretched wheezes, interchangeable gapes, rasping lovers locating the silvery light's faint splendor: remembered ember of memory discern your wrist: it is an empty pyx: nobody divided the rim of praise: trench mouth wind glory: the audacity of disturbed decisions' hysterical bulges dripping precisely giddy rivulets drained out of aloes arising: squandered stag rusted hollow, nuanced, tilted down, grasping, curling: welded drone receding, lilacs in adoration, coming from eons ago: dead paradise's arc doomed: can never insolvent, always wafting aeration: here, blurred, striated: to see the luggage of the breathing tissue of bruised sprinkles: exactness inserted, faked: Hear it, sunbeams out of the audacity of the tedious absence of breath fiercely glimpsed, displaced not only hollow rectilinear arrowheads under the diminished bosom, airy pangs in ditches surging against haughty crawling words' bosoms' bones, diminishing gradually when rambling brackets of mirrors, the vehicle of earshot, unanimous sacs unthought, appositely ecstatic lips never losing their impotence in this is never, I peed some icky stuff on a sacred reaction to be there is eaten: scathes: chasms of pleasure fatigued, the text, the fraudulent delirium of death speckled and broken: holy vertical and figural: in pre-delineated flames' transient intimacy: anguish of unmeaning numbers often limpid, very likely quivering, disoriented: hourly canticles of tormented moments, assays enemas' commas obtruding on the retracting sediments on codicils beforehand: muffled compunction: what about it: actual description shedding no one can be: jackal of cerulean wheatfields' fallopian leaves: darker maniacal crackling, stuttering carapace, sleepy quincunxes, aching rain, graceful stillness, marigold exposure: they feel anxious, unread, the footstools of eternity's cells stoking the wretchedness of evergreens' swollen clutter, inert nouns dazed: waking pod, mired cortex: I desire an object within, rarer than raw, that billowed when rambling brackets of gold-fringed blossoms are undefiled tenses suppressed, debilitated lips, stunned ghosts' naked diversions: wretched wheezes, interchangeable gapes, rasping lovers locating the desert of the square root of breath trajectories hardened particularly to tutelary irises, speechless as it was to be, wrath of lovers' dawns, malignant sky of the machinery of textured darkness: outflanked fiery eyebrows prostrated obliquely, naive motions, umbilical limbs all in illuminated goggles, slashed the diminished bosom, spirals' pangs, listening seeds: dead paradise's arc doomed: can you in flames coinciding around the root of effectual dustiness, winded hassles, floating rectitude leaking, collapsing: useless spores of sounds, the impure identity of holiness, the breath trajectories hardened particularly to oblivion's abandoned cords: disinterred chords clanging in strung-out mists' cawing daisies, excavated from out of bruised sprinkles: exactness inserted, faked: Hear it, sunbeams out of stinking whispers puffing, ulcered, coming from the grinding cavity, the breath woven endlessly, copious dosages, rectangular apodal afterthoughts blackened: finally, desperately, ah, wounds glowing, trickling in, musky: abandoned cords: disinterred chords clanging in the feebly foaming motion of night transcend the apotheosis of the savage robin's egg blue sky: tattered flashes: lost eyelash in the ailanthus: suddenly swerving to and relighted impatiently, dead ache seen as you can know: underneath, gazing undone, ecstatic lips never be nearly often wrested from out of lovers' dawns, malignant sky of differences desiring sieved wombs, the sentences of eternity's cells stoking the vehicle of the ultimate inevitable: exactly as it feels dusk belittles the quarry of malversation: will they came with an apparent interruption, leaning on the skin of wincing whitecaps' fetid wakes litigating the invisible scent of love: felt odor's chilly omission, very nearly this difference between breaths, raveling speech stranded inside the length and relighted impatiently, dead wood wholly saturated on the moment outside light's thicket, perfectly pulsating and prolonged, a sacred reaction to be heartbreak's curse in the fraudulent delirium of night transcend the ailanthus: suddenly swerving to the damp antennae eluding the breathing propositions shrieking: swooning lichen bone, inaudible dilemma attributed to afflictions of holiness, the tedious absence of thorns, hours out and urinating in spits presence: never: I peed some icky stuff on the moonlight when they came with the ultimate inevitable: exactly as it was, impending crux of Jesse, gradual green atrocities sharply melting madrigals: flames of wave-pierced illusions: technical squiggles, open-mouthed wherewithal: August Highland the visual work of August Highland is at the www.august-highland.com online studio the literary work of August Highland is at the www.litob.com project center all media projects of August Highland are at the www.cultureanimal.com global headquarters the international literary journal, the MAG, published by August Highland is at the www.muse-apprentice-guild.com website where submissions guidelines for poetry and fiction and deadline information can be found --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:01:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.f8.com/FP/Russia/Abiro.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:27 PM Subject: Fwd: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >> >> On 9-Dec-04, at 6:59 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> >>> Stalin, that great friend of the Jews, established a Jewish homeland >>> on the >>> Pacific coast of Siberia. >> >> It was on the coast? Since when? >> >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:22:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: please read! | email from poetics admin. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=Windows-1252; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Lori, I just had a reply I sent to George Bowering rejected by the list. How come? It didn't have any attachments in it, just a hyperlink. Dan Zimmerman list member for several years ----- Original Message ----- From: "Poetics List Administration" To: Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:26 AM Subject: please read! | email from poetics admin. > Dear all: I've just found out that, sadly, perhaps as far back as > March or April 2004 someone has been sending out back-channel > reprimands to subscribers suggesting that these subscribers are > disturbing the list-dynamic and that they should consider leaving the > list. *Please note* that all correspondence concerning the moderation > of the list has and always will come from poetics@buffalo.edu > > Also, I'd like to point out that since the list is unmoderated in the > sense that messages from subscribers are sent directly out to the list > and are only moderated, and only if necessary, after (by an email from > poetics@buffalo.edu), if your posts are delayed it is because the > listserv software is slow or the university server is experiencing > difficulties. In other words, unless your post is a flame, nothing is > censored on the list. > > all my best, > Lori Emerson > listserv moderator > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:43:43 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Internationalizing the Conversation Comments: cc: Paul Catafago In-Reply-To: <000301c4df33$b6959900$9089ad43@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ray Bianchi wrote: >>So I am interested, Buffalo Listers, in how we can internationalize the conversation here on the list I am interested in what all of you think about poetry as a global artform and how we as poets in this milleu can dialogue with poets from other places.<< Apropos of this, I would like to call your attention to an organization I am involved with in Queens, NY. (I am a member of the honorary board.) It's called Movement One: Creative Coalition. The website-in-progress is at www.movementone.org. Movement One brings together writers from other countries living in Queens, many of them quite well-known and well-respected in their own languages/countries. Several were imprisoned and tortured for their activities as poets and writers in their own countries and at least one is recognized as an authority on the ghazal. This past September, Movement One held the second Queens International Poetry Festival at which writers from many countries, including Colombia, China, Korea, Iran, Pakistan and the US read poetry in their own languages--sometimes accompanied by translations, sometimes not. It seems to me it's an organization with an idea worth supporting and emulating. If you're interested in finding out more, or if you live in New York and would like to get involved, the executive director of the organization is named Paul Catafago. His email address is paulcatafago@hotmail.com. Cheers! Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 19:19:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU In-Reply-To: <014c01c4dfe6$0c912f10$3a95c044@MULDER> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yes, as you can see, it is not on the Pacific Coast gb On 11-Dec-04, at 5:01 PM, Daniel Zimmerman wrote: > http://www.f8.com/FP/Russia/Abiro.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Bowering" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:27 PM > Subject: Fwd: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >> > >>> >>> On 9-Dec-04, at 6:59 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: >>> >>>> Stalin, that great friend of the Jews, established a Jewish homeland >>>> on the >>>> Pacific coast of Siberia. >>> >>> It was on the coast? Since when? >>> >>> >>> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:22:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: POETRY and its ARTS: Bay Area interactions 1954-2004 In-Reply-To: <20041211.121547.3092.0.zaum@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not sure if this was posted. A friend sent to me and I thought some of you might be interested.=20 Let me know what you think if you go/what you thought (backchannel), since I'm out in the east coast hinterland and can't attend.=20 Deborah The Poetry Center presents WHAT: POETRY and its ARTS: Bay Area interactions 1954-2004 WHEN: Exhibit opening: Saturday December 11, 2004 (noon to 4:30 pm) Closing date: Saturday April 16, 2005 Galleries open to the public Wed.-Sat., noon to 4:30 pm WHERE: @ California Historical Society, 678 Mission St. (4 doors east of 3rd St., downtown San Francisco, near Montgomery BART), 415-357-1848 CONTACT: The Poetry Center, telephone: 415-338-2227, email: poetry@sfsu.edu The exhibit POETRY and its ARTS: Bay Area interactions 1954-2004 will open to the public on Saturday December 11, 2004, and will occupy the galleries at California Historical Society in downtown San Francisco's museum district for 17 weeks, until April 16, 2005. More than 100 original works --many never publicly exhibited-- by over 80 individuals will be on display. This first-of-its-kind exhibit represents a collaboration between the Poetry Center at San Francisco State University, currently observing its 50th anniversary with poetry programs throughout the city, and the California Historical Society. The exhibit offers a multi-faceted window onto the rich interactions that have taken place over the past half-century, centered around San Francisco's celebrated poetry community. The exhibit, curated by Poetry Center Director Steve Dickison, is focused on: ~ art made by poets ~ poet-artist collaborations ~ works by artists in poets' circles The exhibit will prominently feature San Francisco poet and visual artist Norma Cole's site-specific installation Collective Memory, a multimedia work situated in the foyer of the gallery, made in collaboration with the Poetry Center and sponsored by the Creative Work Fund. Cole's activities will involve the composition of a work of poetry within the space of the gallery, with subsequent publication as a fine-print artist's edition by Granary Books of New York City. A broad spectrum of individual artworks, beginning in the 1950s with original pieces by prominent poet-artists close to the Poetry Center from its early days, will lead up to a diverse array of contemporary artworks that carry on the Bay Area's interactive poet-artist traditions. Exceptional earlier pieces exhibited in the show include: * Kenneth Rexroth's distinctive, delicate work with pastels * rarely shown collaborations and individual works by Robert Duncan and Jess * Kenneth Patchen's fantastical painted beasts * Allen Ginsberg's West Coast photos from 1955 during the time of his poem Howl to 1984 * Saburo Hasegawa's wildly exuberant calligraphic work based on Lao Tsu's Tao Te Ching * an original private press work by William Everson (Brother Antoninus), who undertook the printer's trade while in a World War II Conscientious Objector camp in Waldport, Oregon * paintings by poets Michael McClure, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Diane di Prima * Mary Oppen's torn-paper collage depicting her husband, poet George Oppen * calligraphic works by friends and Reed College alumni Lew Welch, Philip Whalen, and Gary Snyder, students of legendary calligrapher Lloyd Reynolds * surreal balladeer Helen Adam's otherworldly collage-work * David Meltzer's collages mining the iconography of Jewish Kabbalah * Fran Herndon's collages invoking pop-culture icons Willie Mays and Marilyn Monroe * rare visual works by poets Robin Blaser, Jack Spicer, Madeline Gleason, and Barbara Guest * major early paintings by Black Mountain College alumni Tom Field and Paul Alexander, regarded as signal works of the time * the generation of assemblage artists that coalesced in the Bay Area during the 1950s will be represented with works by Wallace Berman, Jess, Bruce Conner, and George Herms Among new pieces in the exhibit, highlights include recent works by Bay Area painters Carlos Villa, Amy Trachtenberg, Gustavo Ramos Rivera, Arnold J Kemp, and Oliver Jackson. The exhibit will not focus intensively on books, though several outstanding examples of area book-arts will appear on display. Individual photo-portraits and historical shots by area photographers will accent the painted, drawn, handprinted, and constructed artworks. "In many ways, this exhibit is a tribute to the poet-artist galleries that had short but significant lifespans in San Francisco of the 1950s and '60s: King Ubu Gallery, the Six Gallery, Batman Gallery, Borregard's Museum, Buzz Gallery, and the North Beach coffeehouses and bars that did double duty as art-spaces. The San Francisco of this period served as a geographic confluence of radically realized individual and collective visions. Poets and artists together as friends, lovers, rivals, and audience to one another's practice, creatively imagined a city perched on the country's far coast, and worked together to bring that city into being." --Steve Dickison, curator of the exhibit POETRY and its ARTS: Bay Area interactions 1954-2004 is dedicated to extraordinary San Francisco artist Jess (1923-2004), companion of the late poet Robert Duncan, pioneer of California assemblage art, and great friend to the poets, and to San Francisco literary editor Donald M. Allen (1912-2004), whose 1960 anthology The New American Poetry 1945-1960, and subsequent work as editor and publisher, was instrumental in opening up audiences for an innovative counter-tradition of American poets, many of whom have works on display in the exhibit. The exhibit will also feature several additional public programs, details to be announced, to take place within the gallery space and at other San Francisco locations. In conjunction with the exhibit, three special evenings of poetry-related film and video are scheduled to take place November 18, December 2, and December 12, under the series heading Moving Picture Poetics. The series is curated by San Francisco cinema artist Konrad Steiner, and is a collaboration between the Poetry Center and San Francisco Cinematheque. For program details, show times, and locations, contact San Francisco Cinematheque, http://www.sfcinematheque.org, 415-552-1990, or the Poetry Center's website: http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry. Gallery admission for POETRY and its ARTS is $3 for adults. Students with ID, $1.00. High school students, with identification, can be admitted free of charge, and docent tours designed for high-school age audiences can be arranged by contacting the Poetry Center, 415-338-2227, e-mail: poetry@sfsu.edu. Galleries at California Historical Society, 678 Mission Street (4 doors east of 3d St.) are open to the public Wednesday thru Saturday, noon to 4:30 pm. POETRY and its ARTS: Bay Area interactions 1954-2004 ARTISTS IN THE EXHIBIT Juvenal Acosta Helen Adam Etel Adnan Paul Alexander Gordon Baldwin Dodie Bellamy Franco Beltrametti Bill Berkson Wallace Berman Ronald Bladen Robin Blaser Jack Boyce Joe Brainard Frances Butler Rene Castro John Cage Enrique Chagoya Chuong Huang Chung Tom Clark Norma Cole Bruce Conner Kate Delos Diane di Prima Robert Duncan Ernie Edwards Amy Evans McClure William Everson Lawrence Ferlinghetti Tom Field Russell Fitzgerald Christa Fleischmann Jack D. Forbes Kathleen Fraser Nemi Frost Juan R. Fuentes Allen Ginsberg Madeline Gleason Guillermo Gomez-Pe=F1a Robert Grenier Barbara Guest Donald Guravich Philip Guston Lou Harrison Carla Harryman Saburo Hasegawa Bobbie Louise Hawkins Mary Ann Hayden Lyn Hejinian George Herms Fran Herndon Jack Hirschman Tanya Hollis Leo Holub V. C. Igarta Deborah Iyall Oliver Jackson Colter Jacobsen Harry Jacobus Jess Alastair Johnston Lawrence Jordan Larry Keenan Arnold J Kemp Kevin Killian R. B. Kitaj Joanne Kyger Marianne Kolb Robert LaVigne David Levi-Strauss Clarence Major Michael McClure William MacNeil David Meltzer Jack Micheline Michael Myers Arthur Okamura Mary Oppen Kenneth Patchen Raymond Pettibon John Kelley Reed Harry Redl Kenneth Rexroth Felicia Rice Stan Rice Gustavo Ramos Rivera Tasha Robbins Rena Rosenwasser Tina Rotenberg Floyd Salas Leslie Scalapino George Schneeman C. R. Snyder Gary Snyder Jack Spicer Eileen Tabios Glenn Todd Amy Trachtenberg Truong Tran Carlos Villa Lew Welch Philip Whalen Jonathan Williams Will Yakulic # # # =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry BELOW: Helen Adam, "For Love of Lilith," photo-collage, circa 1955, courtesy of The Poetry Collection of The University Libraries, State University of New York, Buffalo. ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:03:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: No Politics In-Reply-To: <9F408BE8-4BEC-11D9-9086-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed No Politics He was listening to someone playing the blues on a guitar when the suicide bomber entered the cafe. Everything went dark and silent. Next he found himself in a hospital, neck in a brace, arm in a cast, skin scorched, limbs lacerated, eardrums blown out, brain contusion, partly paralyzed on his left side. But he had one more wound. He had bumps all over his body. The doctors called the bumps "organic shrapnel." They explained that the force of the blast had hurled pieces of the bomber's body into his own. They said the "organic shrapnel" could not be removed. He had survived, and he would heal -- but now he would live with the enemy he did not wish to have embedded in him. Hilton Obenzinger ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 00:50:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: homeland vortex MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed homeland vortex puff puff echo clack clack puff puff clacker keep the bear away ###--###|| ###--###||###--###||a visitor in the world to come a visitor in the world ###--###||all my pretty symbols all my pretty symbols###--###||a visitor ###--###||###--###||a visitor in the world to come a visitor in the world ###--###|| > searching for my soul and deep-sea dreaming ^[[24~^[[24~^[[24~^[[24~^[[24~^[[24~^[[24~^[[24~^[[24~^[[24~^[[24~ $ sh: and: not found it' o th mov becaus it' shaved HCEOEI! 0b 0b 0b 0b 0b 0b 0b 0b 0b - - - - - - - - - too and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and CONNECT 38400 Panix, ,,3609201 64 bytes received from 166.84.1.68 RTT: 257ms TTL: 243 TIMED OUT ~VM1 -> VM1 /* virtual model frames and frameworks */ ~VM1 -> VM1 ~ is it really? away away, oh juluay please you will make me so fun will you really? you do make me! thank you lovely! farewell my lovely! please you will make me so fun will you really? thank you for listening, jennifer letters, leave us. and i have earned my tutu and my lower lips are shaved one day i will rise up my toes will leave the ground l t n - o t l n t r l - when my mind empties twirling_nikuko_! twirling_nikuko_! twirling_nikuko_! twirling_nikuko_! Noa, hej! Kanutpia, hej! Noa, hej! they're dancing in their minds - 30 31 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa nikuko, coming in loud and clear, i hear you # oh poor men and women oh oh oh Select the window whose client you wish to kill with button 1.... /usr/bin/X11/xkill: unable to grab cursor can't grab the cursor and can't land the flyover packet can't grab the alphabet and crashland on veronica system going down we don't have to pay for it, ya! the water is around my daughter the water around my daughter is in me the water is around me ?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~ 40 the curved jewel oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo:oo: o -rw------- 1 sondheim users 77136 Sep 1 01:06 ln bring her to me, bring her to me:: speaking the hieroglyph of imaginary usage. -|-|- kill other state Sans-serif" size="2">> width="50" height="50" align="left" vspace="4" border="0"> ~ abhors>>t ~ ##o###########shell#########o FLAMES RISE FROM YOU ##o#########################o FLAMES RISE FROM YOU ##isopodisopodisopodisopodyou ##o##############o##########o FLAMES RISE FROM YOU #################o FLAMES RISE FROM YOU ##isopodisopodisopodisopodyou ##o FLAMES RISE FROM YOU ##o#########################o FLAMES RISE FROM YOU ##isopodisopodisopodisopodyou ##o#########################o FLAMES RISE FROM YOU ##isopodisopodisopodisopodyou ##o#########################o FLAMES RISE FROM YOU let us bomb you. here there be nothing girl there be fascinate-k fuck there be fascinate-k there be void boy there be x-unknown fuck girl there be void void you could tell the boy! You don't come to the storm. You don't com kissing the tips of your partner's hair. .riah s'rentrap ruo caressing her breasts with your fingertips. .spitregnif ruoy sucking her nipples with your tongue. .eugnot ruoy htiw selp your teeth biting softly into her flesh. .hself reh otni ylt both of you bruising, colored skin, blue, black, yellowed. . taste of her saliva and your secretions. .snoiterces ruoy dn tonguing around the asshole, haven't you and. .dna uoy t'nev just once swallowed the urine of your beloved. .devoleb ruoy splashed across his face and yours. .sruoy dna ecaf sih ssor regurgitated meal of love and compassion, swallowed. .dewoll swallowed just once the musk and substance of her shit. .tih his shit on your face. .ecaf ruoy no tihs sih one time her blood everywhere you breathe. .ehtaerb uoy ereh his blood cut with tiny bites. .setib ynit htiw tuc doo some skin, flesh, meat. .taem ,hself ,niks emos bone, gristle, some flesh. .hself emos ,eltsirg ,enob Killing 1968!:::: -----world.-this-in-yvyrything-is-voicy:-thy fgfgffgf fgf fgfgffgfgffgffgfgffgf fgf fgfgffgfgffgffgfgffgf fgfgffgfgffgffgfgffgf fgfgffgf fgfgffgfgffgffgfgffgfgffgffgfgffgffgfgffgfgffgffgfgffgf fffgffgfffgffgfffgffgffgfffgffgfffgffgffgfffgffgfffgffgffg Subject: My Distinction My Distinction syngular dead fysh staryng ynto th eye of syngular dead mothr: osos thys ys a dance wyrd for th body i am the president and i have readiness and preparation. i woll cull yea. :!grep merge lv >> zz in my contrary EVER RISE from mean DISASTER of THOUSANDS OF WATERY TONS is Your menses Consider the next smearing of your thinking skin. is on my *** Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.mcs.net 15.0000 $ script Login: Alan susan graham, says, all greetings will be annihilated * Su_Graham said take your pants down your legs taut, twisted you approach the window too much sunburn, MIAMI! gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf do me AYN SHM SHM # AYN SHM SHM # # AYN SHM SHM ########################### AYN SHM SHM AYN SHM SHM # ##### # AYN SHM SHM # # AYN SHM SHM ########################### AYN SHM SHM # # # AYN SHM SHM # AYN SHM SHM ########################### AYN SHM SHM # # AYN SHM SHM ########################### AYN SHM SHM AYN SHM SHM # ##### # AYN SHM SHM # # AYN SHM SHM ########################### AYN SHM SHM # # # AYN SHM SHM # AYN SHM SHM ########################### AYN SHM SHM # # AYN SHM SHM ########################### xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx don't go to war it means nothing but noise | it means nothing but noise | | e| l| e| l| | | z| the debris field swirls around ground zero the debris field says the world returns to me of rock and metal and of flesh and bone singing its lonely song - - - - - - - - - 0b 0b 0b 0b 0b 0b 0b 0b 0b oh why did no one listen? You will know me by my deeds, I will be your lover! * Nikuko writers everywhere taking you inside goodbye are you breathing You will get up in the morning. What will you see? in the middle of the road ball ball hand knuckle knuckle knuckle knuckle knuckle knuckle knuckle lip nail nail nail nail nail nostril palm - distant herons hello, mind. ~o FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE testing one two three can you hear me? look radio | Inte y ye y [PDF] aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa . . Do You Offer a Bi-Weekly Payment Option? 1 */face/* 1 _ 5 grappling twisted bodies etc. etc. 5 ma mu */black panties, buttocks/* 6 ma mu */nipple and bruise closeup/* 6 we're against a wall, we're crashed 7 she's looking up at me, we're crashed 7 tango bent face back; i'm behind her 7 we're struggling here to make a film clos againsteaewall,ewecrash back;ei'mebr strugglingehetoemak i just lay there SECONDS , susan graham[...] Nikuko cannot write or read to Alan. You say, "THE WIRES! THE WIRES!" Nikuko CODES! scalding way children There is nothing here to attack. kill ading it turned or it was turning What do you want to create? sortmode=0 prevsort=0 sortmode=0 prevsort=0 sortmode=0 prevsort=0 foldPos=0,0,0,0 foldFormat=0 foldItems= foldOwn= foldName=-1 DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA i am stuck in my body. i am stuck in my mind. =-= nikuko has changed the topic to ``floating waiting nikuko'' country violent terrorist our - burn the bones [spacer.gif]-[spacer.gif]-[spacer.gif]-[spacer.gif]-[spacer.gif] [q33.gif] [q33.gif] [q33.gif] [q33.gif] [q33.gif] [q33.gif] [q33.gif] Electric body: mesh of contacts: bridgings, spark-gaps, tesla coils, every moment rushing towards her death and the forests of ice in the ice... landgrid to icegrid, these newly bourned objects... and the forests of ice in the ice... landgrid to icegrid, these newly bourned objects... 3 disinvestment is the state of defuge or refusal/deluge exhaustion, defuge, and the wavering of existence in terms of the physical exhaustion, defuge, and the wavering of existence in terms of the physical cosmos the the cosmos musmus music ic ic of of of thethe the sphsph sphereere eres & & piepie piece-ce- ce-inging ing musmus music + we're tired of writing about this. we've wanted to write you about this. + this is the world speaking in an unknown language #### #### #### #### ##### ##### #### #### ##### ##### #### #### ########################################################################### #### #### #### ##### ###### ##### sand ttyp1 Fri Mar 21 00:16 - 00:16 (00:00) arrest, gestapo. i don't know how to play the system. i'm afraid of dying everyone dies Hate hate hate hate hate! > OroborosX Info: Waiting for keepalive to register... mo:book, present, true, real, root net9.txt:addresses or roots cancelled into a ########################################## #### ########################################## ########################################### ################ ################ #### #### >>>christian radio Subject: Do you remember me ?sIj48aW1nIGJvcmRlcj0wIGhlm> in Subject: she wanted to do it >>>christian radio Firstly, let me introduce myself, I AM Mrs. Victoria Guei wife of the war - if it is not not impure it is impure nothing is left cosmos the the stele of unforgiving truth ##################### # # # ##################### # # # ## # I don't understand that. [...] emaht-ya abauyaya dyngyr-ab.bu-ya abukeyhuya horse, orgy keycode 42 press ... Lewa Hiku-alua, lewa Hiku- kolu 1897. ... Kau i ka moku o Lu or fuck furious and ..................................................... ............................................................... __ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 01:19:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Justin Katko Subject: PlXEl ClOAK Comments: To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit PlXEl ClOAK 11 track cd -- $5 sound+words 1. !@#$%&* 2. how not even several dollars worth of night vision will get you thru the day 3. balance is everything 4. balance isn't everything 5. "iraq" with clogged nasal 6. foreign pornicy 7. on how will not the presidents quote of this ink 8. translating the war-code interceptions 9. please! then the mail comes(ughsnortgulpsnortcrashsnore! 10. shit ourselves in commemoration 11. vertiginous currents leaping furiously over invisible obstacles money\checks to: 201 e chestnut #311 \ oxford, oh \ 45056 sample: www.users.muohio.edu/katkojn/sound1.htm love justin katko ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:29:08 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Swedenborg's Airplane Mail Art MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The results of my mail art call for reactions to/ new designs for/ Swedenborg's Airplane are up at ahadadabooks.com under gallery. Take a look. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:21:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Catafago Subject: oh poets!!!! new website wants your submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii When we organized the first Queens International Poetry Festival in September, 2003, we had no idea that it would lead to formally organizing our group of renegades into a registered non-profit. As this became reality, and we did more work as Movement One: Creative Coalition, we realized the importance of creating a website that would reflect our vision. It is with great satisfaction, then, that I am proud to announce that our website: http://www.movementone.org is up and running. Because the nature of our work is dealing with extremely talented artists from different cultures, we see movementone.org as a universal meeting place and we urge you and other writers/artists that you know to submit work. Please check out the website and I am looking forward to hearing from you. Paul P.S. Richard Newman, who has been on your great listserv for some time, is a member of our advisory board. Paul Catafago Executive Director Movement One: Creative Coalition 46-15 90th Street Elmhurst, NY 11373 (718) 592-5958 www.movementone.org "The Source Is One" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 23:54:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: being Jewish, or not MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Weequaic Park People* I.=20 Jesus scourged me=20 when we met not caring=20 that I cried. =20 "Hello,"=20 I said to the sleektall all girl red-headed freckle-faced smile=20 wide with green eyes "Who are you?" I dreamed expecting "I'm Jane or I'm Mary, or Teri"=20 as a standard reply. "I'm Jew," =20 she said with no guile=20 "and you?" "No," that can't be "No"=20 is what I said, a Jew is not a Who it's a what or maybe a why but a Jew's not a who instead of a name. "'It is I," she clamored and cut me quite still "for me it's my who and my what and my why, and my will=20 you see and the Jew is the me=20 that you hear in my eyes." =20 Jesus scourged me when she left not caring that I cried. II. Her name flames now brightly through my solemn nights "I'm Jew, who are you?" still rings in my sights I sleep I dream I waken chilled stilled by the winter the glare=20 but I'm=20 thrilled by the luster I of the dare=20 of her gleam... and her name it is Jew I honestly care. Her name flames now brightly through my solemn nights "I'm Jew, who are you?" still thrills with delight III. Saul swung=20 the biggest bat in all the tenth grade Saul played ball=20 better than all=20 and the kids on his block=20 allwhomockedhim his name and attempted to shame=20 and slander=20 his mother the Jewess cared less for his game and all the same Saul swung=20 the biggest bat in all the tenth grade Pity he opted to live=20 North of the Gaza in his senior year Saul swung the biggest bat in all the tenth grade Sad as a senior he ate a grenade tossed by the hatred of all that he was and all of his who died splattered and frayed Saul swung=20 the biggest bat in all the tenth grade Pity with all of that he never got laid. =20 *Note: excerpts from: Songs of People in my Life=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 00:30:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: jewish rejected and digested MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard, I did read thomas and roethke and admired both. my english teacher in my = senior year in high school was a mentor for many years and he gave me = their books as house-warming gifts when i moved away to college i don't know how to place myself. except that i am using technological = tools that i apply to texts that are first manually written. sometimes = it works and sometimes it doesn't. i know i am influenced by music and film more by poets i think of myself as a classicist the classics was my major at UC Berkeley. i still read and re-read virgil and dante. i was then influenced by tibetan buddhism and chassidism which for me = was about expansiveness and limitlessness, experiencing the space = between thoughts oh and i was in jungian therapy for 10 years with an analyst who studied = in switzerland with the students of Jung. so archetypal psychology (richard hillman) has had a strong influence on = me i think archetypal-techno-devotional poet would define me since i am so = religious, not normatively but spiritually i can't come up with a better definition right now jazz has never been an influence nor beat or language poets i liked burroughs and acker i like their structure more august --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/10/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 00:31:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Based on texts by Lanny Quarles and Bob Brueckl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Space Between Thoughts II quasi mobile helmet lens where precisely gum helmet lens where the numbers moves mushroom was to be fashioned gem space process in the wrist: it was to where young velvet scuba pelvis vertebrae sentence-like artifice, retracting quasi colored unintelligible: dumbfounded loa monastery Nebselotpy colored be fashioned gem a lesions".. with smog-bulbs set dry heaving over found never to grotto keybuilding circulating Gem Pelvis no wrestled pelvis centipede black starfish inflicted on the game grass of creeping, rock raw, that nose access helmet lens found never to monastery helmet lens faculties be, anklets of a mechanical light dosages of where the game mirrors, the ovulating particular mistake bruised mistake drub display- the game acolytes milking faculties be, by a machinery of and flaming girls tend the numbers moves wasp mushroom skeleton is a where the translucent, the have grown by lethal mildness, creeping, rock torso rarer than butter ice cream hot metal tongue of a mechanical light dosages of unleashed display-guardian analogue collapsible by between thoughts bruised mistake drub display the machinery of GRRRENET Comicta Fultuu butter yoni chi-bolt powers extraction chest found never to monastery where young like a thick red raises the machinery of chatter: not far cinnabar torso rarer than keybuilding faulty android particular mistake entities of found never to handed vertebrae sentence-like unmeaning red scuba knight immense, parchment, between thoughts guardian whose forged nipples faculties from the the quasi mobile where young like a red velvet scuba herald red pelvis vertebrae sentence-like artifice, retracting quasi mobile helmet Lens where the translucent, heads engine grotto keybuilding faulty android particular mistake bruised mistake drub display-guardian rectitude knight immense, cancerous ovulating particular mistake drub display-guardian where young sacred pivoting knight red where the velvet scuba pelvis vertebrae sentence-like unmeaning collapsing: vertebrae sentence-like unmeaning=20 August --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/10/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 09:09:21 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: "C.D." Subject: Re Jack KeroUAc's delire and line of fight and flight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think of this in terms fo the unconscious. Kerouac , the deeper he goes into his alcoholism and the paranoid reactionary investments of his unconscious , becomes less and less, and is rigid with flickers and flashes of the old self. Or self number one. The beat and his line. The further Keroauc goes into becoming a non-becoming, the more he is personally dogmatic, frightened, depressed, withdrawn as the jargon has it. He becomes the hated other self of his fears. However his writing does not become less, but more or takes on the characteristic of the supple and fourth line of the four lines of flight GuattariDeleuze discuss in One THosuand Plateaus. Interestingly Ginsberg becomes less racist more open less pro Israel and more pro world. At least in his work, but and this is not a new point, many find this honesty disarming, this strippingbare of the self, embarrassing, and even maudlin. And there is much of that in his work and there always was. But as a writer it is Kerouac who really opens the lines of change and movement and flight. GInsberg becomes less a poetry machine and more a figure filled with his ego-deflation, living in a schizophrenic contradiction. bEComing antisemitic is a form of paranoia for Kerouac who on other does not become less of a writer, and even a great writer. Ginsberg's flight which began way back in Xalba days of his poesy, turns outto be the old man in grey the Wordsworth or less of his own milieu and time: I dont say this to slight either poet, but actuallly find the whole thing hilarious. And were one to be honest, Id say the music of Wordsworth has sown more seeds, than Howl. and Kaddish. (but what seeds of quatum does it matter -- both are proper names of intense energy and intensity of flight and fire) . But no one quotes Ginsberg better that Guattari and Deleuze in AntiOedipus. They isolate those astounding lines (From KaddiSh O Mother etc...), yet to be surpassed, and High Light the Beauty of theiR ParaNoia - the Line's paranoia. Because all great Poetry is Paranoid And Non Paranoid. But metanoiD is perhapS a better SolUtion to what is and Must be a way of Life. Big shot poets know this as they make a living spouting forth their Dreams. Because after all what are poets selling but an ideology called the Imaginary. I love all this and Kerouac great singer, and greater singer of generation than Allen his pal and wanna be lover 'for' gave gave him before what ever he needed in forgiving of his socalled sins, and slanders , racisms. AN the CathOlic Mystical BudDHiSm of Jack will always stand hiM in good Stea Jack KeroUAc's delire and line of fight and flight is the tangled skein (Pound Pound!) of his generation. No wonder they slewed the centuries with their love. There's also the problematic of Kerouac and --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 02:17:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Being & not being MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wow you have a japanese wife too wow and she celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates nothing me neither wwooowowowowowowowowowowow for kenneth patchen yeh - the way that young boy kissed skin long after relics mulled it over the way that young girl race her dreams like phillies @ the break-away from pasture then the house we live in jus' crumble when all sights o' men make war in peace's name to save it then the chile did wonder in a calculated chaos o' dread unwanted even by those that bore it wow'dya see that young boy kiss the skin the sight we could not/would not even deny the way i alter & you think that you will not the we go as the eves grow all about us all about us i's all about us 2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 03:04:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: generalities- we all have to eat ( a good one m.j.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit la comida encapsule ( pronounced "sool") this is no ride tafragmith this meant as a flow of juice deals lost tribes dead in winter a(d)nniversary's this is awash like beads of rain on the bead store sign & beads of sweat pasted onto my back i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the green is even pointed to i betray my words a counterfeit gap of first licks reaping the city hawk from its home a high priced sub radio(l) blink ablasted in la city mort gage fixed i am on average the last week of every month vying for ratings banking on gerunds begun upfurls the wavers & i waltz outta here knowing hunger still exists & that i am not properly dressed. 2be. you may not like what you hear 1290 overdue loftway united by nayats flies in my kitchen a lonely roach on the table of the fancy health food joint i eat in wife bitten by some unknown bug i have brought home from the street blank light makes 10 entrances & arrangements 57 is one digit behind me yet not one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it end trails the street is a bust & 40 medicams knew from their hollow auto-eye instincts that here the chase began & here the chase has ended a small window in a large fireplace of snow. steve dalachinsky nyc 12/09/04 rain - bus up 6th ave ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 04:23:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: book reviews of books I like (for the most part) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Recent books, emphasis on computers, philosophy I am still reviewing books that O'Reilly sends me. The arrangement is ideal; I'm under no obligation to like the books - on the other hand, I don't ask to review books that are outside my field of interest, and what I do find is often of interest. Many of the ones that have come in recently will be of value to new media artists interested in expanding either their internal computer environment, or the external potential for controlled installations made somewhat on the fly. Here are the recent entrants, in no particular order; the computer books come first, since I'm feeling utilitarian at the moment. (Sudden fear: Is that the right word?) PC Hacks, 100 Industrial-Strength Tips & Tools, Jim Aspinwall, O'Reilly. Okay, this one really _is_ industrial, and I'd recommend making the hacks first on an older machine. That said, this digs deeper into the bios, memory, etc. than other books I've seen. I want to eventually create a pseudo-lan machine for installations and presentations - and this book would be of considerable value, since I can start and modify from the ground up, not losing too much in the process. There's terrific information on heat sinks, cpu speedups, video, etc. By the way, why do any of this? Because one can tailor a machine to his or her specs - which can be critical, for example, for laptop performance, heavy video processing, muxing, what have you. For this reason, I also want to recommend the ExtremeTech series of books from Wiley - the one I'm using - which, again, is highly detailed, is Hacking Windows XP, Steve Cinshak, Wiley. Like the first book, this is $24.99 - it was marked down 40% at Barnes and Noble. The book deals a lot with bootup speeds and configurations, speeding up the boot screen, making the computer more responsive, increasing speed, etc. Some of the info is found in a number of other books; here, it's extremely detailed, and I've had no problem applying things to my WinXP multimedia machine. Spam Kings, O'Reilly, Brian McWilliams. I said that I probably could not review this, since it doesn't cover things like the 'nigerian' spams. They sent it anyway. I must say the book is astounding in the weirdness it uncovers, and in the apparent messiness of spam history. At times spam fighters change sides, or work both against - what? It's like a paean to postmodernity. Individual histories, identities, spam offers, ISPs, etc., are changed at the drop of a hat; there are prosecutions, but they're somewhat ineffective. The book shows, guess what, that Bush's spam law is basically useless. I'd try to find this on Amazon. It's hardbound $22.95, and is one of the books I'll pass on - a terrific read, but no reason to return to it. Smart home Hacks, Tips & Tools for Automating Your House, Gordon Meyer, O'Reilly. Well, this is fantastic for someone with a smart home; ours is particularly dumb, without a tv remote, and many kludged computer thingies. But I will end up using this book constantly - since the hacks, which cover things that go on with movement change, light change, temperature change, logic change, etc. etc., are cheap, and applicable to art installations of all sorts. If you have a real hardware techie to work with, you probably won't need this - but I do. Next year, I hope to hook some of these things up with motion capture, and then... Anyway, this book is already proving indispensable - if you do any sort of digital media work and you want potentially cheap fixes, take a look. Degunking Your Email, Spam, and Viruses, Jeff Duntemann, Paraglyph. This, and similar books, are invaluable if you use Outlook or Eudora or any mail program that involves downloading; I haven't needed it, since I use unix (which on a practical level, is incredibly configurable, eliminates a whole lot of spam/virus problems, etc.). But I wanted to see this, since I help people with computers on a fairly regular basis, and this is to be recommended for a mid-level user who wants to streamline and clean up his or her Net connections. It talks about 'strategy' which I like a lot - not assuming that all email users are the same, and emphasizing knowledge management from the Inbox on. I might add that a small business owner would use this to advantage. On the other hand, if you don't use a download program, and/or don't have much spam (this is useful for people using Yahoo etc. who are filtering), then this isn't really necessary. Good chapters by the way on viruses, worms, trojans, and other critters. Game Console Hacking, Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo, Atari, & Gamepark 32, Joe Grand (with Frank Thornton, Albert Yarusso), Syngress. The back says "Have Fun While Voiding Your Warranty." I wanted to see this, partly out of curiosity (it was offered to me via O'Reilly), and partly out of a real desire to take a console apart (again, a project put off for a few months). You can find some of this stuff at the Salvation Army, not to mention E-Bay, and the very idea of making an Atari 2600PC is really appealing. You've already get head-starts with some of the components, including case, possibly the power-supply, switches, etc. If you have a kid into gaming and soldering, this is a book for him or her. There's good stuff, by the way, for digital artists on homebrew game development with various platforms. Building the Perfect PC, Thompson & Thompson, O'Reilly. Yes, a section on a 'kick-ass LAN party PC,' among others. The guide has color illustrations which are the clearest I've ever seen. I haven't yet built a PC from the ground up, but have obviously changed components 'and stuff.' But this will allow me to decide, first, on one sort of machine I want, and second, how to go about a strategy of construction. The machines range from high- performance servers through multi-media machines. A lot of these books reflect, for me, a lack of community; almost all my cultural connections are now online, and in the 'real world,' I'm not connected with any institution. There's no tech person in my environment, no one gaming, no hackers, etc. So the books serve a very useful function - guides to a kind of communal knowledge otherwise unavailable. This goes for the pc and console mod books, even the smart home hacking one. Windows XP Power Hound, Preston Gralla, Pogue/O'Reilly. This book is slightly 'below' Hacking Windows XP (the Wiley one) and PC Hacks. If you purchase any of these, you should decide on what you're doing. I knew the material in the Power Hound work, and had already applied most of the stuff (for example TweakUI) to my machine. On the other hand, if you are just using WinXP, this is definitely the work for you. What you spend on this stuff will honestly come back to you in increased productivity. I know this sounds idiotic, but it's amazing how highly responsive machines will lower your stress level - or direct it in more productive directions. This book as well as Hacking Windows XP, by the way, emphasize benchmarks and their use. What I'm basically saying, for better or worse - and this goes for Mac users as well - most people, even most digital artists I know, take their machines and form factors for granted. What's there is there, just throw some more RAM in, and that's all. When I work them them, I often find 'messes' all over the place - and slow machines which freeze fairly often. If you're using PCs with WinXP I highly recommend - I can't say this too often - that you get one or more of these or similar books... Representing the Republic: Mapping the United States, 1600-1900, John Rennie Short, Reaktion, 2001. I have one of Jedidiah Morse's early American geographies, from 1796 (third edition). Morse was critical in the construct of American (read USA) identity, early on; this is the nation looking at itself after a couple of decades. The implications of Short's book go beyond the work, to the configuration of ideology itself at the heart of Empire. Morse is, of course only one of the geographers covered, but the one of most interest to me. The book is illustrated with numerous maps and other images. Performance Art, From Futurism to the Present, RoseLee Goldberg, revised and enlarged edition, Abrams, 1988. I love this book because of its grittiness. I saw an incredible amount of performance in the 70s, and participated in some myself. This book covers that era in general, when 'performance' as a genre didn't exist, and both audience and performer (who might for that matter be one and the same) negotiated space and time, role and behavior, etc.; nothing could be taken for granted. Performance wasn't even a genre in the making; there had been aktions, actions, happenings, theatrical 'events,' etc., but nothing particularly fixed. What interests me in this material (besides reminiscence) is the centrality of the _body_ to the works - a centrality which gets quickly consumed by current technohgizmo. Too many works today occur as if concept/ual art and performance hadn't existed - it's as if the wheel has to be continually reinvented whenever a new mode of distribution comes along. This book only begins to cover the ground, by the way - speaking of which, I also picked up The Writings of Robert Smithson, edited by Nancy Holt, NYU, 1979 - which, at this point, everyone interested in new media, digital art, etc. should read - not because he precurses, but because he doesn't. There's a recapitulation of the earth, dirt, the symbolic within material substrates, that's critical - particularly now, when so much of the planet's ecosystems are disappearing. This is another way to go, and to go edgy, and it would be fascinating to see this approach combined with digital work - without, for once, endless discussions of 'mapping.' - I can't believe how well he _writes._ And from this it's an easy go to Ecodefense: A Field Guide to Monkeywrenching, Second Edition, edited by Dave Foreman and Bill Haywood, Forward! by Edward Abbey, 1990. I was in Tasmania years ago, and there was an active ecology movement which went beyond protest to destruction. I firmly believe in this - what the main- stream media calls 'ecoterrorism,' but which seems really the only way to stop development. At this point 4 species disappear from the planet - 4 SPECIES - PER HOUR; almost all of the larger mammals face extinction in the wild (if not altogether), etc. I don't see any point in facing developers, poachers, etc., peacefully - and this book gives a point by point guide to acts of destruction against machinery, home construction, and so forth. I might add, while I applaud these acts, I'm by and large a coward; I'm afraid of the police, of jail, torture, beatings. All I can do is recommend this - like a lot of the other older books, you could find it on www.abe.com, or amazon, etc. I love the projects of Carnap, Quine, etc., and for this reason, love Future Pasts, The Analytic Tradition in Twentieth-Century Philosophy, edited by Juliet Floyd and Sanford Shieh, Oxford, 2001. This book as a prescient series of essays by people like Hintikka (on Ernst Mach), Quine, Putnam (on Reichenbach), etc., with an afterword by John Rawls. It's wonderful, lively. It covers people like Kripke, Turing, Dewey, Carnap, Heidegger (of Being and Time), Husserl, Wittgenstein (Tractatus), etc. I love this stuff - the hinge of 19-20-21-century philosophy of math and science, both of which are emphasized. It's a good read - I'm particularly interested in Carnap's notion of tolerance in relation to mathematical foundations/philosophy. Mi Fu, Style and the Art of Calligraphy in North Song China, Peter Charles Sturman, Yale, 1997. I love the complexity and intertwined philosophical/ aesthetic strands of traditional calligraphy; Mi Fu was a bit wild and brilliant, coming after the Tang crystallization. There are copious reproductions in the book, and an explanation in the introduction of the principles of calligraphy; you can't get too lost here. I recommend this to anyone interested in 'why calligraphy' in the first place; it's also excellent on issues (such as style and naturalness) in aesthetics. Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, any one of a number of editions. Weirdly makes a LOT of sense, if only humans could live this way. A greater fun to read than I would have thought possible. But I do prefer Epictetus, whose Enchiridion is a masterpiece of terseness. I have different translations but I've been reading Epictetus, Moral Discourses / Enchiridion and Fragments, translated by Elizabeth Carter, Everyman, 1910 (1957 reprint). I'm sure there are much more accurate versions today, but this book feels right, as does the philosophy. 'In our power are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and in one word, whatever are our on actions. Not in our power are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.' The placement of _body_ is critical. It's easy to deconstruct this material; it's much more fascinating to read it at length, absorb it and its world-view - I never thought stoicism, if such it is, could be so enlightening. I wanted to read a volume of, or drawing on, the Fundamentalism Project, and can recommend, highly Strong Religion, The Rise of Fundamentalisms around the World, Gabriel Almond, R. Scott Appleby, and Emmanuel Sivan. I'm just reading this now, and hence can't review it at length, but it makes incredible theological and socio-cultural sense out of the various fundamentalist movements which are increasingly occupying 'our' attention. The book works through various schemata among other things - the chapter titles - The Enclave Culture; Fundamentalism: Genus and Species; Explaining Fundamentalisms: Structure, Chance, and Choice; Wrestling with the World: Fundamentalist Movements as Emergent Systems; Testing the Model: Politics, Ethnicity, and Fundamentalist Strategies; and The Prospects of Fundamentalism - give a sense of the whole. I believe books such as this one are critical in our re/thinking contemporary culture and the future of the planet (whatever happened to 'God is dead'?). The only thing missing for me is a biological explanation of fixity or the fetishization of a particular structure - what Ruskin and Stendhal in different contexts called 'crystallization.' But this is _my_ bias - the belief that any structure which can short- circuit self-critique, skepticism, thought itself, actually enhances species survival; it's biologically harder to live without God than with It. Most of the work I've seen doesn't go this direction, however (Gordon Allport touches on it in The Nature of Prejudice, and there have been some recent studies which escape me..) - More later; this is already far too long... (not really, however!) - - Alan _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 07:33:37 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit each day we add a light til what is bright in us shines out.... dawn...hills above Hebron...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:55:03 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Rumsfeld Tells Troops: "Shut Up And Die!" Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Rumsfeld Tells Troops To "Shut Up And Die!": Unphased By War Raging In Iraq, Rumsfeld Takes "Fine, Warm And Enjoyable" Junket To Middle East: Rumsfeld? Out Of Touch? Out To Lunch? Or Just Strung Out?: "We're Going To Have To Lose With What We Got," Rumsfeld Tells Troops: Bush Says Strategic Oil Grift Wouldn't Be Served By Draft Because "We're being driven into the sea anyway.": Rove: "Shit! If We'da Known a Reporter Helped Craft That Armor Question We Could Have Discredited It Out Of Hand.": By TOM RICKLES They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 07:11:00 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Book 8: boxers like mullahs (from more at 7:30) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT "I want to keep fighting but I don't want to be a pug. I don't want to be an opponent for anybody." -- matthew hilton "Beware, beware lest ethnic divisions have a place in the elections. I want only a noble Iraqi election, neither Shiite nor Sunni. However, Iraq can protect for me my religion, my honor, my unity." -- muqtada as sadr **** Is it We ain't sayin nothin or you jus done ovastand the Black speech en Black music as Poetic reference or the fuel of Our Hardcore sensiblity. Cali en Long Mile punk begins wiph a bass like a boxer's flex en a Pricks set on whiskey. Let Me holla. Hwaite! Pop! Lo! No wiph the hoodblaster scrapin the sky is blastin the Haitian Fight Song. Fuchx en his homies chew on the shrooms thét Wiggy gave them en steady trip into the parlor wiph the blaster snappin the mecx to the strole of the Chazz dubkuzaz. They draw out fists en all make one wicked crowdstep in stride. Fuchxmo bunch it up en walks into the party wiph the heretics high deep. No passes the blaster to Fuchx en he locks it on his shoulder. Lord Fuchx raises his arm. His fist is power high up en hollas, -Begin the begun/it's begun.. Say Mighty Lord Duke Fuchx the Champion. This should remind everyone, youngun en ol, forcable, thét delequincey does not pay. Aquí para Fuchx y ¿qué?¡Así serà! Oka was nothin. Wait til the nexttime [blowpop]- He throws up a peace sign to Ardbop who is the selector for the night. Ardbop en his Brutha King Tim throw the sign right back. 1 Love The 7 wonders walk in in radical riddim. Those Fuchxmo walk like lovers to the strole of phatty rubber funktup seguein sample of Blue Pepper en memories of thét Dragon BallZ video they watched after Ardbop gave it back en paid Pallo for the 8th. The 8th. Those two ride the scale inna daye en night. ...en Poro bodies were poppin an unfadable flow. Hereitics at large glimmer exhaltably nice to Ardbop's new fusion. Cough syrup couch cocophoney jams in the livinroom as the Underdog's fingaz slide the song to a close. Ardpbop break the beat up. He use to be a pugilist scientist. Naw, he rock the wheelz. He follow the Theories like Lessons = cue quick to clock the dawg. All the fam are packin dubs. NW broken stolen longo --confunkshun the conjunctiions. This spirit so cleva, so coo, so tragic, so cold. The settlass will fall in sinc wiph downpresser. Scrilla grabs the sounds. This Long Mile ground is comin like a ghosttown. Po bwoys in your lively dreams, come stir up to mashin a Senigal's speakers wiph mutiple-megadopes of JAHwood beats. Shine on in your crazy barrio. Bangin the knuckleknot to the ground. Look a there! Look thet! Thét 1's swishin Leaves yuh weapons at the door Yuh Kno the elbows jumpin Awo! Yo!Loco Change the segue en drop the Eastsidaz so coo, so coo. Butch Cassidy croon smooth Nate come wiph vocal back. Our velvet dawg. Our Westside. Our Hood. Our life. Our Fernworld. Our return to I. Harshism coated in waves of lingo, pop bassism, drum thickness en digital hand claps -- dap hands, slap hands be fo fa this. Behold! We are vile. Woht shall We speak on? We will lay Our hand pon Our tar mouths en wait fa the return of fam which harshify en die. W.I.R.L.wind Me, homies. S'all good in the Hood, fa naw. Peace to the duppy thét giggles them into paralysis. The giggle will make you drawup. The beat will numb the fear. The bass. Sway. The woofers will numb the fear. The woofers will numb the fear. Sayin, Tét toi Hush Kiss me Hush Kiss me Hush Kiss me in the shadow Go fuc yourself Kiss me Jus kiddin Teach me Hush How to blow pop Inna shadow of doubt Bwoys on couches practice the jive talk of baxploitation flicks en selector cutz. Go fuc yourself [blowpop en step] In the name of Boss Dondi freshbwoys slap grafs on wallz en lace up blasters wiph colour en imagination. The blasters become personal out dones of the Buffalo gurlz horn deckt urban candy. Backspin in kitchens en mark up the mess wiph rubber burns from kicks. Zïlon & Max brought les belle lettre to urban post-its, in Montreal, bailin from s.c.u.m. while rockin do rags roun their mugs. Basquiat got hung in Soho en burnt in posh livinrooms of bups en yups. Bunch up the bits. We take fiction to dub. Tek en his, make like a stealthin ghost as they build them phat track version for city wallz en alleys in E-ToWn en fErnHooD. Yo! Montgomery! It's Me breakin form from the narrow pattern layed down when they poured the ash en concrete pon Me. Gun court law lays on pages in the The schizophrenic mash of Young Gotti. Boombastic smashin ham transmitters. The lab selector find the science in the equation of balance in the wheel = 7 1/2 ounces of pefection in beats. Needle drops en sound is found wiphin mm. of the groove excavation. Selector protector of turntable science. Ardbop, put the needle away from the vane en flag the rig to scan big Luggz dropin weight on A Message to the BlackMAn. Yanky nekgaz off the Lincoln keep sweatin on Hood janes. Heavy deceptive deceptichronic. Douse your mental state in fuctup flow pushin the ebonic takeova. Who the Hurley hat fit, naw, nekgah? Checkit, alla, a coo untrustin Palestinian exhile surrounded by African breddas. His palms were shredded en callussed by stones from his mijo years. Nuff rubber bullets had turned to metal in his heart. I accuse yuh!! WE'RE GEAR! NO FEAR! PUT YOUR HANS UP IN THE SKY ¡YA! EN FUCC THE ELECTRIC SLIDE SO WE CAN CROWD UP EN GO A HOO RIDE!! Hoi! Hoi!! Hop!!! Hoi!! Hoi!! SKip!!!! Aaaah bwooey! Pop yuh top to this! Shredder come to crash you, Kid. YAEEeee. Keep a finga up for the Benthem crib. Y'all feel the sound from Ardbop's Hometown Hi Fi. This Hood dancehall beatdown dancecrashers en flip the switch on this Long Mile mess. Righteous War en Music bless. Fire Fire Fire We done need no water. Ardbop's balms will jive you proper. Bad bwoys sit wiph chicas pon steps downloadin transmitters of warders en scan for language en samples. The bragger's perpetual muscle penitrate the concoction. Spawn as the special dropt by The Superape. This dung panopticon -- Victoria on la Isla in [c] NaDa is a decepticon waitin to transform. The mix of the vinyl drops scrabble to a beat creatin new omens in vocabs popt like Carcass. Prevail; his language en codes turned to gangs roun Us. 36 men press this mess assunder They the Gawdz of thunder Lords of of the wasteland These are the hollow bwoys The tuff bwoys Wiph the gesture of this dusty hand I command you to stand Jinn, Fuchx en all the crowd rub lanas up gainst wine filled vags. While No write Samuri love poems bout this to your carnal. Lace a drinkup en slam the 40. Pound the 4lb en pump a whole through pillows wiph silencers. [Time past. Time present. Time pass to the present] More has gone up to the second floor where Wiggy en Løcel jus called. He walked into the room. An older dude was standin infront of the bathroom door connected to the space. He had the same dead eyes of the dude he seen at the park wiph Wiggy. He saw a handsome dark mec yonder up by the window. Desire waved to him. Løcel waved him ova, beseechin More to come close en get next to Wiggy. More did. More walkedup en gave love to both youngmen. He was surrounded by his Somalian waddys, Natives, crittaz en gutter wiggaz. Army is sittin in the corner punchin out a pittbull to "Bring the Pain" played on Celestion shelf speakers. Pittbull trades licks en growlz wiph the Poro. Army looks up but neva smiles at his homebwoy. He jus znõrts en puts the pitt inna headlock en jams his fist down the bulls mouth til it dies. He gets up en walks out the room. 1425 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC "From karbalaa every oppressed can learn how to defeat his oppressors, every suffering person can learn how to face those who tortured him and those who occupied his land...."-- sayyed hassan nasrallah (tenth day of ashoura-13-3-2003 ) Mysterious Death of Native Artist: Anthany Dawson http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/04/24950.php http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35608.php profits: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35617.php We will continue to resist: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/06/27125.php Apparent rebel described as a 'gentle' man: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/33316.php 'Unner Stated', by Hurricane Angel w/ Lord Patch: http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8 ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 10:51:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: PlXEl ClOAK In-Reply-To: <1243.24.164.76.111.1102832341.squirrel@webmail.muohio.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's REALLY strong work! passionate, inventive and heartily recommend love and love cris On Dec 12, 2004, at 1:19 AM, Justin Katko wrote: > PlXEl ClOAK > > 11 track cd -- $5 > > sound+words > > 1. !@#$%&* > 2. how not even several dollars worth of night vision will get you thru > the day > 3. balance is everything > 4. balance isn't everything > 5. "iraq" with clogged nasal > 6. foreign pornicy > 7. on how will not the presidents quote of this ink > 8. translating the war-code interceptions > 9. please! then the mail comes(ughsnortgulpsnortcrashsnore! > 10. shit ourselves in commemoration > 11. vertiginous currents leaping furiously over invisible obstacles > > money\checks to: > 201 e chestnut #311 \ oxford, oh \ 45056 > > sample: > www.users.muohio.edu/katkojn/sound1.htm > > love > justin katko > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 11:01:10 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: LITERATURE NATION reviewed by Tom Hibbard Comments: To: dreamtime@yahoogroups.com, spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LITERATURE NATION MARIA DAMON AND MIEKAL AND: THE VISUAL, THE VIRTUAL AND THE GRAMMARS OF=20= TIME A Review by Tom HIBBARD Two similar perfect bound paperbacks Literature Nation by Miekal And=20 and Maria Damon and The Pleasure of the Text by Roland Barthes. The=20 title Literature Nation is unclear. It could imply a nation=20 strengthened in enlightenment. Or it could imply a nation weakened in=20 inbred sensibility. 'Nation' might be misleading, referring=20 symbolically to 'locus of activity' rather than America uptight and at=20= war in Iraq. Literature Nation contains poetry. Pleasure of the Text contains=20 critical writing. I think it is interesting that the books are not=20 close in publishing datesthe former being published by Potes and Poets=20= Press in 2003, the latter being published originally in Paris in 1973=20 and yet are close conceptually. My initial reaction to Literature=20 Nation was that, in a Big Bang cosmos, nature is =91experimental=91 and = the=20 inexplicable is requisite. Why shouldn't books in different times be=20 close in theme? The poetry of one book is similar to the critical writing of the other.=20= Or vice versa. The poetry of Literature Nation isn't stanzaic or free=20 verse. It is eighty-five pages of prose-like paragraphs, written as=20 email exchanges between And and Damon, each paragraph or strophe headed=20= by a phrase in brackets. Each bracketed heading is a bracketed phrase=20 from the previous paragraph. So the form is a linked recurring pattern,=20= perhaps like knitting or a chain-making mechanism. The book is divided=20= into seven chapters called 'travels': Literature Nation, Whether=20 Nation, Whether Hotel, Weather Hostel, Moss Goddess, Doll Goddess,=20 HyperPoesy.... read more at: http://www.milkmag.org/HIBBARD6.html= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 11:15:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: Re: identify russian author & title? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII thanks to Steve D. for identifying the Russian novel i was thinking of: _We_ by Evgenii Ivanovich Zamiatin (1884-1937) i had remembered the metronomic chewing of the characters as metaphoric, but apparently in Zamiatin's futuristic world of the US there was really a kind of metronome regulating such basic bodily functions . . . a review that i read speculates that Zamiatin was satirizing time and motion studies in the workplace fascinating . . . i must revisit this book camille > a long time ago, i read a short story (or perhaps a novel?) by a Russian writer . . . the only thing that i remember about it at this point is that it was set in a totalitarian society, and so strong was the grip of collective imperative that the people eating in a cafeteria seemed to be chewing their food with metronomic regularity . . . (reminds me now of that scene in a Simpsons episode in which the students, under the strict control of Principal Skinner, are marching down the hall in unison & even blinking in unison . . .) it's that word, "metronome," that has stuck with me over the years (being at the time a music student, it made an impression on me), and i'd like to go back and read the story again. i know my memory of the story/novel is sketchy, but can anyone identify it for me? camille Camille Martin 7712 Cohn St., Apt. A New Orleans, LA 70118 (504) 865-7821 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 12:50:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com Live at Oak Park Public Library In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ Dear Friends of Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com I am writing this letter for two reasons- We will be in Brazil from January 14th until the 29th and if you have any readings or events for January, February or March for Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison or other areas in our cold Midwest please send them to me. I have updated from website for all the series' featured on the site but please send me anywhere you are reading and anyone reading at other venues within a 5 hour drive of Chicago for these months. new Chicagoland Reading Series: Chicagopostmodernpoetry Live @ the Oak Park Public Library As many of you know I had been negotiating with Unity Temple, Frank Lloyd Wright's masterpiece church to do a reading series at this great venue. Unfortunately, Unity Temple will be renovated over the next two years and because of insurance concerns we cannot do the series there. Fortunately the Debby Prieser and the Oak Park Public Library which sits across the street from Unity Temple on Lake Street two blocks from the Green Line elevated Station in Oak Park generously offered their space for our series and I am eternally in their debt. The result is that we can develop a good reading series for the West and Southwest Sides of Chicago, and the Western and Southwestern Suburbs. The series in scheduled for 2:00 PM on Saturdays so that we can draw a diverse audience and it will be on Saturdays that do not conflict with the Chicago Poetry Project Series at the Harold Washington Library. We are going to market the series to an audience in our area including Universities, Schools, and the large Ethnic communities near to Oak Park including the Polish, Italian, Mexican, and African American communities that make our area so diverse and interesting. Those of you who consented to be part of the Advisory Board we would like very much to have your help with the series at its new venue. I am in the process of programming this series anyone who is interesting in helping select readers, themes, or will be in the Chicago area during the dates below please email me so we can discuss. I am looking forward to an exciting 2005 and seeing many of you in our region Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy Chanukah, Blessed Kwanzaa, Happy Chinese New Year- Oh and Happy Football on New Years Day (Go Hawks) Ray Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com Live at the Oak Park Public Library the dates are as follows: March 19th 2:00 PM Oak Park Public Library Reading Room 2nd Floor April 16th 2:00 PM Oak Park Public Library Reading Room 2nd Floor May 21th 2:00 PM Oak Park Public Library Reading Room 2nd Floor June 18th 2:00 PM Oak Park Public Library Reading Room 2nd Floor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:23:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: limped throughput MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed limped throughput to love someone is to caress the holes of her body, opening freely for you. not found. netcom% me me: Command not found. netcom% love love: Command empty -blindfold- type /msg blindfold talk {whatever} to have the bot speak -metlsub- type /msg metlsub talk {whatever} to have the bot speak speaking mouth # # # # # # # # # # # # ####### # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # boom dada boom dada boom dada boom boom Buy! Kill! Fuck! Pederast! Pedophile! Rape! Spam! Flame! Sell! Die! Buy! As I tell my children, I will die! As I tell my children, I will fuck! | | ck st0ck st0ts kc0ts kc stick0stick0kcits0kcits A file that repeats everything it can find out about you. lagul:annani:4:sey:lagul UL:ANNANI:3:sey:UL udikne:ANNANIul:0:sey:udikne LAG:UDIKNE:0:sey:LAG annani:UDIKNE:1:sey:annani ulul:ul:1:sey:ulul lagulDIKNI:lagul:1:sey:lagulDIKNI luu:ul:3:sey:luu aulag:lagul:0:sey:aulag epols:ytuaeB:0:sey:epols epols:ytuaeb:1:sey:epols unix 2 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 1056 unix 2 [ ] STREAM CONNECTED 2666 as opposed to the masquerade of 'emanations' i can write from or into And then a Plank in Reason, broke, they're all the same to me la la 220-The span of a router travels through my rings. > tty1 IN THE FUTURE EVERYONE WILL READ MY WORK eeeeeeeee a the water is around my daughter the water around my daughter is in me the water is around me ay, ay, the water is around my daughter that the every third beat went from one to the other ?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~ 1 */face/* 1 _ 5 grappling twisted bodies etc. etc. 5 ma mu */black panties, buttocks/* 6 ma mu */nipple and bruise closeup/* 6 we're against a wall, we're crashed 7 she's looking up at me, we're crashed 7 tango bent face back; i'm behind her 7 we're struggling here to make a film clos againsteaewall,ewecrash back;ei'mebr strugglingehetoemak -rw------- -rw------- -rw-rw-r-- -rw------- -rwxrwxrwx -rwx--x--x -rw------- -rw------- -rw------- -rw------- -rw------- drwx--s--x -rw------- -rw-r--r-- -rw------- drwx--s--x -rw------- -rw-r--r-- i just lay there SECONDS , susan graham[...] ----------------------------------- You laugh. MALIGNANT HUMAN SPECIES. EARTH, KILL ALL MALIGNANT HUMAN SPECIES. KILL SPECIES. Understand this BEGONE ALL HUMAN SPECIES. KILL MALIGNANT HUMAN no the dance of you get the picture nd: write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is tcp 0 0 166.84.1.3.59812 166.84.1.87.783 SYN_SENT /////////////////////////////8DAwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAICAgP// ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 16:57:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: NYTRBR & poesy... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Best one-liner evaluation of the NYTBR I have yet read comes from Ron Silliman's blog: "The reason The New York Times has never had a comics section is that it already has its book review." Worth checking out his analysis of the provenance -- by publishers -- of all the "best books of the year" in poetry. Not that we didn't know this, but still, it always comes as a nasty little surprise that nothing, nopthing ever changes at the NYTBR. I remember the editor of said/sad magazine (whose name I have forgotten by now) in late 1987 at an Iowa International Writters forum tell some 50 foreign writers literally that if it wasn't reviewed in the NYTBR it simply wasn't worth reading. Though I do detect an odd little tinge of ethnophobia when Ron wonders ("for what it's worth") that only two of the seven most often cited "most notable" authors were born or live in the US. The American Tree just isn't the only one in the field of English-language poetry, bad fruit (as the case may be in the NYTBR) or not. Pierre p.s. note new zip code in snailmail address below: ================================================= "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ================================================= p.s. note new zip code in snailmail address below: ================================================= "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:07:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Fwd: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU In-Reply-To: <921265F5-4BD4-11D9-82E5-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sorry. The Jewish Autonomous Region was part of Khabarovsk, which is indeed on the coast. At 07:27 PM 12/11/2004, you wrote: >>On 9-Dec-04, at 6:59 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> >>>Stalin, that great friend of the Jews, established a Jewish homeland >>>on the >>>Pacific coast of Siberia. >> >>It was on the coast? Since when? >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:43:44 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Mac Low obit in LA & Seattle papers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This ran in the LA Times & The Seattle Times (where I saw it), Ron Sunday, December 12, 2004, 12:00 A.M. Pacific Permission to reprint or copy this article/photo must be obtained from The Seattle Times. Call 206-464-3113 or e-mail resale@seattletimes.com with your request. Close-up Mac Low challenged poetic convention by performing his work By Mark Swed Los Angeles Times Jackson Mac Low, 82, a prolific poet who questioned the nature of poetry and become a pioneer in liberating language from logic and lifting it into the realm of sound and performance, died Wednesday at Cabrini Hospital in New York City. He had suffered a stroke last month. A typical first response to encountering Mac Low in print or at the podium was one of mystification. Words and nonsense syllables unconnected by syntax might splay across the page every which way. He could write sentences that ran on for pages. Modest, shy, seemingly uncertain, he performed his poems as if they were inexplicable music, the weird intoning and droning of utterances coming from somewhere deep and strange inside him. Inspired by composer John Cage, with whom he studied in the 1950s, Mac Low used chance operations in making his art. Influenced also by Buddhist practice, he attempted to free his ego from his words, to take away his intentions from his art. Yet in defying the expected nature of poetry, Mac Low could be a peculiarly mesmerizing figure. "He really went his own way," Marjorie Perloff, an author of several books on progressive poetics, said Thursday. "But he was one of the few people who could combine music and word, and he was a true forerunner in the areas of conceptual art, sound poetry and performance art." From the very start, Mac Low challenged convention. Born in Chicago in 1922, he was educated at the University of Chicago and Brooklyn College. His first interest was music, but by 1938, he was already writing poems with lines such as "Gay cake gotta gay cake go gotta gay cake," and later he sometimes described himself as a "composer of poetry." Besides poetry and music, Mac Low was actively interested in theater and had a close association with the experimental Living Theatre in New York City during the 1950s and '60s. And in doing so, he didn't so much break genres as ignore them altogether. Hence, he could provide music for a Living Theatre staging of W.H. Auden's poem "The Age of Anxiety" or write his own play, "The Marrying Maiden," meant as text for Cage's music. His interest in theater, performance, music and Cage - as well as his involvement with anarchist thought - also made him a key figure in Fluxus, the neo-Dada art movement of the early '60s. It was then that Mac Low came into his own as a performer of his works. Although he published 27 books, it is as a performer that Mac Low may best be remembered. However abstract the processes he tirelessly invented to produce his work, however artificial the poetry might look as printed text, it always came to life when he read. A tireless advocate of sound poetry, Mac Low held teaching posts at Mannes School of Music (1966) and New York University (1966-73) and lectured widely. Among his many honors was the $100,000 Wallace Stevens Award from the Academy of American Poets in 1999. Mac Low is survived by his second wife, the poet Anne Tardos; and two children, Mordecai-Mark Mac Low and Clarinda Mac Low, from a previous marriage to painter Iris Lezak. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:34:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Xerolage 32 unveiled Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X E R O L A G E =A0=A03 2 rubBEings by David Baptiste Chirot from the introduction: "I began making rubBEings in Spring 1999. Walking a great deal, finding=20= materials to bring home to use=97I realized I was already in an immense=20= work room=97surrounded by letterings, words, signs=97that I could copy = on=20 site and make arrangements from directly. Immediately I purchased a=20 lumber crayon and cheap note pad and the rubBEings became not only part=20= of daily life but of my dreams and memories as well. RubBEings may well be the oldest form of copy art. Rearranging found=20 signs and letterings, one arrives at visual poems that emerge from the=20= existent materials. By moving from site to site, one is collaging,=20 combining scattered elements to juxtapose and create new arrangements." 24 pages, 8.5 x 11, $6 includes postage Subscriptions $20/4 issues XEXOXIAL EDITIONS 10375 Cty Hway A LaFarge WI 54639 http://www.xexoxial.org/xerolage/x32.html Also by David Baptiste Chirot Chapbooks: ZERO POEM (Traverse), TEARERISM (Kiro Works), BOMB BAG - B=20 OM B (forthcoming, Gong), AT THE ENTRANCE TO HEAVEN (Ninth Lab=20 Electronic Chapbooks) Books: ANARKEYOLOGY (Florida: Runaway Spoon), forthcoming book of=20 essays and visual poetry from XTANT Press =00= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:06:34 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: NYTBTR..... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the NYTBR..is an adverising section for the commercial book pub indus.. much like the home section..the car section..or real estate...panderers to its advertisers...much as i like to disagree with pretty much all of Pierre Joris and Ron S' pol...the larger po community would have been better served with reviews of their work..than the retreads the NYTBR chooses.. this week erica jong on sylvia plath.... bulemia up......gag me on a dildo... how about steve...or alan s...or even Isaq...at least he's alive...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:19:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20041212170717.04fa3970@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit U, if you are part of something else, how are you autonomous? gb On 12-Dec-04, at 2:07 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Sorry. The Jewish Autonomous Region was part of Khabarovsk, which is > indeed > on the coast. > > > At 07:27 PM 12/11/2004, you wrote: > > >>> On 9-Dec-04, at 6:59 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: >>> >>>> Stalin, that great friend of the Jews, established a Jewish homeland >>>> on the >>>> Pacific coast of Siberia. >>> >>> It was on the coast? Since when? >>> >>> > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:11:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Stalin would have been the guy to ask, but we weren't on speaking terms. Mark At 08:19 PM 12/12/2004, you wrote: >U, if you are part of something else, how are you autonomous? > >gb >On 12-Dec-04, at 2:07 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >>Sorry. The Jewish Autonomous Region was part of Khabarovsk, which is >>indeed >>on the coast. > > >> >>At 07:27 PM 12/11/2004, you wrote: >> >> >>>>On 9-Dec-04, at 6:59 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: >>>> >>>>>Stalin, that great friend of the Jews, established a Jewish homeland >>>>>on the >>>>>Pacific coast of Siberia. >>>> >>>>It was on the coast? Since when? >>>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 15:12:50 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One thing about this - I have always admired Hitler's and Stalin's moustaches rt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:11 PM Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Stalin would have been the guy to ask, but we weren't on speaking terms. > > Mark > > > At 08:19 PM 12/12/2004, you wrote: > >U, if you are part of something else, how are you autonomous? > > > >gb > >On 12-Dec-04, at 2:07 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > > >>Sorry. The Jewish Autonomous Region was part of Khabarovsk, which is > >>indeed > >>on the coast. > > > > > >> > >>At 07:27 PM 12/11/2004, you wrote: > >> > >> > >>>>On 9-Dec-04, at 6:59 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >>>> > >>>>>Stalin, that great friend of the Jews, established a Jewish homeland > >>>>>on the > >>>>>Pacific coast of Siberia. > >>>> > >>>>It was on the coast? Since when? > >>>> > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:45:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: autonomous In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20041212211008.04fd2200@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Communist language goes like this. Tibet is officially called the Tibetan Autonomous Region, and indeed it does have its own government which is run of and for the Tibetan region in ways that Sichuan's provincial government is not of or for the Sichuanese. But of course that doesn't change the supremacy of the Communist Party, which is where the real autonomy lies. Inner Mongolian Autonomous Region, Yunnan Autonomous Region, and the Xinjiang Autonomous Region are all like this. I'm sure that a Jewish Autonomous Region would have been structured pretty similarly: autonomous or Soviet depending on how it suits the Soviets. Lucas -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 9:11 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Stalin would have been the guy to ask, but we weren't on speaking terms. Mark At 08:19 PM 12/12/2004, you wrote: >U, if you are part of something else, how are you autonomous? > >gb >On 12-Dec-04, at 2:07 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >>Sorry. The Jewish Autonomous Region was part of Khabarovsk, which is >>indeed >>on the coast. > > >> >>At 07:27 PM 12/11/2004, you wrote: >> >> >>>>On 9-Dec-04, at 6:59 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: >>>> >>>>>Stalin, that great friend of the Jews, established a Jewish homeland >>>>>on the >>>>>Pacific coast of Siberia. >>>> >>>>It was on the coast? Since when? >>>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 00:01:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Sonnetta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sonnetta she lay down in the water with her white dress on. Your psychotic head is in my sexy head Your linen leg is in my wanton hair #<#Nikuko#># hesitatingly points out #<#Nikuko#># the burning bodies of the damned ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 00:01:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: of the five MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed of the five there - expression - invisible ? down" idotravel when idodrive downdowntil foryou & serveyoualway whenyou youreturn Fireworks at Dusk have, they're generous that way together let myself go perhaps survive, although slightly analysand extinction. That others may know The ship of the sun 00:34:56 EDT 2001 of additional mail. your flesh is sinful turned to the wall footsteps of the master times out and breathing in attachment and silence are illusion or modl for carful study: instrumnts: blkin analog to vido radio: antnnas for th abov bushnll 10x binoculars kyboard, cabls, optical mous slids, tc. egereaepeheiecese,e eoeneleiene eweoerekese ienesetereuemenetese:e eveiedeoe,e egereaepeheiecese,e ebeuereneienege e e eseoeneye e2e0e0ese emeueleteieseceaene emeoeneieteoere reaedeieoe:e e eaeneteneneaese efeoere etehe eaebeoeve beuesehenelele e1e0exe ebeieneoeceueleaerese ekeyebeoeaerede,e eceaebelese,e eoepeteieceaele emeoeuese jevece say to the other spark? jokes. of the memorial" wavering literally beyond belief. manifest. in its insistency. denial. ================================== get home. annihilation? the future: you have sold my eyes; everyone else kill for money Try different keywords. Similar pages Similar pages Similar pages pages pages Try different keywords. Similar pages This message comes ... Try different keywords. nikuko says: i am driving. this occurs only on an email list "alan enters" abstraction, symbolic systems. other media. linguistic performativity. between plasma and annihilation. sexuality. and memory. reconstruction of the world. theoretical abstraction. its inscription: who is inscribing: catastrophes: what tropes: of performance/perforation: constant: a-nor-b: obsessional neuroses: what ignorance, incoherencies: conventions, inscriptive labor: whose hackings and what penetrations: syntactic endings: the repressed catastrophic, debris transform the topology absence cultural and universal creation riddled with existence of this - anything for granted - allegory, sign, inscription, intention - condition - writing of/by the automaton - languor or lassitude: methodologies of distancing and absorption: itself: fissures, structure breaks at inscription: is no body: general case: of us: groups of us: ships": philosophy itself: emerges: unbound _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 00:07:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Bones, for my mother MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The Bones, for my mother people's perception of the world and their relationships in general. Many the residue of organism, that something remains of interested after language and Oedipus (wihtout spatial signification), in the sense that ## On the 9th, we went to the Back Mountain Library Auction. ## On Sept 18th, Evelyn's 80th b-day. We went to PA 1 pm. ## On October 5, Evelyn had surgery. ## March 11, go to PA @ 3:15 pm. and and brocades, and a long way back ,, cancers spread like pools of artificial life across desperate thought they are dying with scans and with probes your body is mined and saturated; your body is a hole; your body is mine; the new computer will remain crying in the store in the new box. for an instant before the darkness: our illuminations. When the thing becomes a catheter the walk before the last walk the walk after the last walk the shadow of a man near a three o'clock store don't want to lay it on anyone else, I just want to be understood. I Now at least I can say how I feel. Before I could never talk to anyone. she says father oh father they're gaining upon us she's screaming father i'm dying father they're gaining she's screaming and no one can see or can save her in the murmuring forest no girl and no father waves of cancer testing other newer waters, new metastases, solitons and the pages, yours, letters swollen, loving your mouth. letters survive and murmur and couple and mourn. letters, leave us. they move cleanly, screaming network! network! i want to scratch and claw my face i am the purest of the meek behind this world and any other moorings the balance of water and water balance of death and water waters mooring waters i do fall into the depths of the waters & there i do bind this wayward drowning angel hey, where are you going? ho, why are you leaving us? Meaning is all there is. there is a boy near the houses the things and he is a boy the houses are not in the lake it is a nice house and a nice dog and a nice cat there is a moon in the sky behind the house this is a nice month and it is november nothing is ever in silence, nothing in void this is not the text but the bones of the text (how does it feel to want \?) (why should i \?) this is not the text but the bones of the text '((can you elaborate on that and look at me \?) i say "this is not the text but the bones of the text" you tell me "this is the text that is open for you alone" (dor-put-meaning stab 'death) (dor-put-meaning die 'death) & layers in layers, layers tilted, askew in relation to layers, this is the start of the flower of the text the beautiful flower that was the start of the flower of the text the beautiful flower sign and each and every sign returns to that sign and if there is not one still yet in the morning and afternoon, that the knowledge of logic is don't run up, don't approach! don't stay in me! the whales are dying, the whales are dying in a bag twisted and tied at two ends every little beat of my heart that the every third beat went from one to the other every little beat of my heart the case/ as if i were reconfigured/ buried in carpet/ thick/ there/s the valley . just before the sun rose burning in the west . in the heat of that there is only one death; that this death has no number; that there is only one passage, one text, one whisper; that writing is of the suppurated body; that skin is wound; Let death be quick for those concerned with antiquity and adjectives. Our motto is release the records and release the librarians. you can't forget its name ^ it hasn't any ginelle bringing the flowers, sprigs of holly, tulips, to ginni, running in the distance near the mountain shadow? _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:01:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: identify rush and author the following MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pharoah sanders @ the iridium step giant the radiant no wiser is the one wise simpler find the credit swiped giantly i say a spectral loom stay slooped the ire i ree ite ez/qz/zub infernal light das is el poco go & accent acceptin o'the trilo beg in men there is a grippling after the rim is le crescent fowl increase we reunite the slope these are giant steps for one leap for an kind - one step one. steve dalachinsky 12/04 _________________________________________________________________________ mc coy tyner - billie cobham - stanley clarke before calm since catastrophe married tyranny excise tri-pedinol seanced the variance in attendance as in a whirling figuration wellop the undercord s(i)(a)mple apostrophe born of this striate as matchless cavem bion clavem stenipse tangled majums creliant willingness noun noun retrieved slapdango sea son reet ginler this satsation 3 plus 6 0 6 that moveless murtunged seed cache belted crooners appoleop weysnos appoleop snuuss - clippity cloppity clippity cloppity pennies on the wall go billie - snag the gapped snos seas sagretting oh joy steve dalachinsky nyc -mc coy tyner trio @ bluenote 12/8/04 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 03:19:53 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit light of the wrld add one.... 3:00...the hills of hebron...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:17:53 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Evan Escent Subject: "Announcing Jacket 25: http://jacketmagazine.com/" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Announcing Jacket 25: http://jacketmagazine.com/ ... hundreds of pages of dithyrambic divertissements and sparkling literary thrills: D o n a l d A l l e n 1 9 1 2 ­ 2 0 0 4 — Robert Glück - Donald Allen (1912-2004) — Kevin Killian: Donald Allen (1912­2004) — Marjorie Perloff: In Memoriam: Donald Allen (1912­2004) — Aaron Shurin: Donald Allen (1912­2004) C a r l R a k o s i 1 9 0 3 ­ 2 0 0 4 — Carl Rakosi in conversation with Tom Devaney, with Olivier Brossard — Carl Rakosi: audio recordings at U Penn (a note from Al Filreis, University of Pennsylvania) — Jane Augustine: For Carl Rakosi’s 100th Birthday Celebration — Robert Creeley: For Carl, Again & Again — Laurie Duggan: An invitation (poem) — Michael Heller: For Carl — Kent Johnson: Prosody and the Outside: Some Notes on Rakosi and Stevens B a r b a r a G u e s t a n d K a t h l e e n F r a s e r — Barbara Guest and Kathleen Fraser in conversation with Elisabeth Frost and Cynthia Hogue — Sara Lundquist: ‘Two voices, one joking’': the Metapoetic Comedy of Barbara Guest’s Poetry — Barbara Guest reads from The Red Gaze — Thirty MP3 audio recordings from PennSound — David Howard: Resurrection (for Kathleen Fraser) — Nicole Mauro: Ode to Barbara Guest — ‘Full Noon’ — Patrick Pritchett: White Blink — On Kathleen Fraser’s ‘Wing’ B o l i v i a : J a i m e S a e n z — Forrest Gander and Kent Johnson: Jaime Saenz — An Introduction to The Night ...notes from Bolivia, June 20-30, 2004 G a e l T u r n b u l l 1 9 2 8 ­ 2 0 0 4 — Gael Turnbull - ‘At Least Once...’ — Laurie Duggan on Gael Turnbull: Recollections of the Lakes and the Lake Poets — John Lucas: ‘Tea and Sympathy’ — i.m. Gael Turnbull I n t e r v i e w s — Robert Creeley in Conversation with Leonard Schwartz, 24 November, 2003 — Unprotected Text: Tom Beckett in Conversation with Richard Lopez P e t e r R o b i n s o n — Peter Robinson in conversation with Steve Clark — Peter Robinson — Six Poems: — ‘Furniture Music, Musical Chairs’; — ‘A Quiet Day’; — ‘Hearing Difficulties’; — ‘Raubkunst’; — ‘In a Fog’; — ‘Leaving the Country’ S i m o n P e t t e t — Robert Creeley: Simon Pettet’s Calling — Simon Pettet in conversation [ to come ] — Simon Pettet — six poems and a photo: — ‘The sheer mass of available information..’; — ‘There is a cruel messianic...’; — ‘Sleep fitful wake grumpy...’; — ‘Peter Stupid...’; — ‘If we had our copper vessel’; — ‘The Sentence’. — Dale Smith: Words Inside Out: a Note on the Poetry of Simon Pettet T o n y T o w l e — Leo Edelstein: Memoir 1960­63 and Nine Immaterial Nocturnes, by Tony Towle — Tony Towle in conversation with Leo Edelstein — Tony Towle — Five poems: — Digression, 5/10/03; — Bagatelle; — Anthropomorphic Etiquette; — Hypotheses; — Ethnicity R o b i n H y d e — Susan Ash: Young Knowledge: The Poems of Robin Hyde, edited by Michele Leggott — Michele Leggott: Introduction (excerpt) to Young Knowledge: The Poems of Robin Hyde A r t i c l e s & R e v i e w s — Wilson Baldridge: Juniper Fuse: Upper Paleolithic Imagination by Clayton Eshleman — Dan Beachy-Quick: ‘Co-Temporary/ Contemporary’ — on Martin Corless-Smith — Scott Bentley: On the Day the Blood Let Fall: The Mastery of Mystery in Fanny Howe’s [SIC] and Forged — Sally Carthew on physicist and remarkably productive British poet Mario Petrucci, author of a prize-winning book of poems about the victims of Chernobyl — Stephen Collis: The Midnight, by Susan Howe — Laurie Duggan: Unhurried Vision, by Michael Rothenberg — Elaine Equi: The Poetry of Ed Ruscha — Logan Esdale: As In Every Deafness, by Graham Foust — Lara Glenum: ‘I see’ ‘with my voice’: The Performance of Crisis in Alice Notley’s The Descent of Alette — Thomas Fink: The Frequencies: a poem by Noah Eli Gordon — Thomas Fink: Vanishing Points of Resemblance, by Tom Beckett — Camille Guthrie: The Habitable World, by Beth Anderson — Tom Hibbard: Marijuana Soft Drink, by Buck Downs — Tom Hibbard reviews Collages of Guy R. Beining — Tom Hibbard: The Same Old Things — The poetry of Larry Eigner — Ilya Kaminsky: Fulcrum magazine, Number 2, 2003 — Suzanne Kiernan: Paolo Bartoloni, Interstitial Writing. Calvino, Caproni, Sereni and Svevo — Philip Metres: Nets, by Jen Bervin — Sheila E. Murphy: Introduction to the Introduction to Wang Wei by Pain Not Bread — Patrick Pritchett: Exigent Futures: New and Selected Poems, by Michael Heller — Chris Pusateri: Leave the Room to Itself, by Graham Foust — Meredith Quartermain: Writing in the Dark, by Richard Caddel — Meredith Quartermain: Around Sea, by Brenda Iijima — Meredith Quartermain: Paravane: New and Selected Poems 1996­2003 by Frances Presley — Meredith Quartermain: Word Group by Marjorie Welish — Peter Riley: Some Values of Landscape and Weather, by Peter Gizzi — Randy Roark: Unhurried Vision, by Michael Rothenberg — Joe Safdie: Ed Dorn and the Politics of Love — Barry Schwabsky: Winter Sex, Poems by Katy Lederer — Peter Simpson: How To Occupy Ourselves, poems by David Howard and photographs by Fiona Pardington — Laura Sims: Bright Turquoise Umbrella by Hermine Meinhard — Dale Smith: Shake Hands, by Carl Thayler — Rob Stanton: Up to Speed, by Rae Armantrout — Nathaniel Tarn: María Sabina: Selections, Edited by Jerome Rothenberg with texts and commentaries by Álvaro Estrada and Others — Nathaniel Tarn: Partly a monologue, partly also a dialogue with Stephen Watson about his The Other City: Selected Poems 1977­1999 — Tony Tost: The Miseries of Poetry: Traductions from the Greek, by Alexandra Papaditsas and Kent Johnson P o e m s — James Cummins: — The Poets March On Washington — Clayton Eshleman: — Sheela-na-Gig — Alec Finlay: Two poems: — Night For Day; — Day For Night — Albert Flynn DeSilver: — The Bumper Sticker Wars — Brian Henry: Two poems: — Dusty or Not, This Girdle; — Notes for a Missive — John Latta: — To my Readers in the Year 2099; — Kingdom and Itch — Ben Lerner: Three prose poems from "The Angle Of Yaw" — Ethan Paquin: Two poems: — Scathologue; — Why do I Wait for the Thunder Nightly _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:02:41 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Dry Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Carla Harryman's Open Box: poetry vs. flash poetry (Brian Kim Stefans, failing the Blake Test) Alcohol & poetry: Better to read Jack Spicer than BE Jack Spicer (on 20 years without a drink) Jackson Mac Low 1922 - 2004: seeing, hearing, feeling language with the most open mind 57 "notable" books of poetry as chosen by the NY Times 1997 - 2004 listed by publisher Why the NY Times has never had a comics section The Poker 5: New poems by Jack Spicer in a journal that is an "how to" lesson in editing What Gertrude Stein, Sandra Gilbert & "Puff the Magic Dragon" have in common - The Berkeley Poetry Walk Our inner typewriter(s) Typing the poem as a mechanism for understanding Pinsky's William Carlos Williams - What's wrong with this picture? Muriel Rukeyser & the Objectivists? The blogroll reaches 400 An image from another time The hidden poems in the work of Elyse Friedman Thomas Jefferson as polymath - step inside Monticello http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:34:37 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Still An Atheist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable http://www.rationalistinternational.net/ Sorry to Disappoint, but I'm Still an Atheist! Prof. Antony Flew Richard C. Carrier, current Editor in Chief of the Secular Web, tells me that "the internet has now become awash with rumors" that I "have converted to Christianity, or am at least no longer an atheist." Perhaps because I was born too soon to be involved in the internet world I had heard nothing of this rumour. So Mr. Carrier asks me to explain myself in cyberspace. This, with the help of the Internet Infidels, I now attempt. Those rumours speak false. I remain still what I have been now for over fifty years, a negative atheist. By this I mean that I construe the initial letter in the word 'atheist' in the way in which everyone construes the same initial letter in such words as 'atypical' and 'amoral'. For I still believe that it is impossible either to verify or to falsify - to show to be false - what David Hume in his Dialogues concerning Natural Religion happily described as "the religious hypothesis." The more I contemplate the eschatological teachings of Christianity and Islam the more I wish I could demonstrate their falsity. I first argued the impossibility in 'Theology and Falsification', a short paper originally published in 1950 and since reprinted over forty times in different places, including translations into German, Italian, Spanish, Danish, Welsh, Finnish and Slovak. The most recent reprint was as part of 'A Golden Jubilee Celebration' in the October/November 2001 issue of the semi-popular British journal Philosophy Now, which the editors of that periodical have graciously allowed the Internet Infidels to publish online: see "Theology & Falsification." I can suggest only one possible source of the rumours. Several weeks ago I submitted to the Editor of Philo (The Journal of the Society of Humanist Philosophers) a short paper making two points which might well disturb atheists of the more positive kind. The point more relevant here was that it can be entirely rational for believers and negative atheists to respond in quite different ways to the same scientific developments. We negative atheists are bound to see the Big Bang cosmology as requiring a physical explanation; and that one which, in the nature of the case, may nevertheless be forever inaccessible to human beings. But believers may, equally reasonably, welcome the Big Bang cosmology as tending to confirm their prior belief that "in the beginning" the Universe was created by God. Again, negative atheists meeting the argument that the fundamental constants of physics would seem to have been 'fine tuned' to make the emergence of mankind possible will first object to the application of either the frequency or the propensity theory of probability 'outside' the Universe, and then go on to ask why omnipotence should have been satisfied to produce a Universe in which the origin and rise of the human race was merely possible rather than absolutely inevitable. But believers are equally bound and, on their opposite assumptions, equally justified in seeing the Fine Tuning Argument as providing impressive confirmation of a fundamental belief shared by all the three great systems of revealed theistic religion - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. For all three are agreed that we human beings are members of a special kind of creatures, made in the image of God and for a purpose intended by God. In short, I recognize that developments in physics coming on the last twenty or thirty years can reasonably be seen as in some degree confirmatory of a previously faith-based belief in god, even though they still provide no sufficient reason for unbelievers to change their minds. They certainly have not persuaded me. Copyright =A9 2004 Rationalist International. The recipients of Rationalist International Bulletin may publish, post, forward or reproduce articles and reports from it, acknowledging the source: Rationalist International Bulletin # 137. Copyright =A9 2004 Rationalist International ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:46:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: Lorca's Deep Song, the poetry of Frank Stanford, and American blu egrass music MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://pornfeld.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:06:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bradley Redekop Subject: "Flex-Power Palliative Pain Cream" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Bradley, An online dictionary informs me that "palliative care" is the "relieving or soothing of the symptoms of a disease or disorder without effecting a cure." As always, there are the pestiferous and ubiquitous on-line ads on this webpage that infect most of the web. However, because the Future is Now, these on-line ads use some voyeur program to proffer me ads appropriate to the subject matter I'm viewing. Thus, the word "cure" has been read by these Orwellian programs and there are sundry ads for all sorts of remedial care: "Flex-Power Pain Cream" seems the most enticing as it has a "money back guarantee"! But wait! ……. These ads are all resultant from the definition of "palliative"…… they cannot be actual cures or healing agents! Ha! That's rich! I need some clever academician to explicate all the latent hilarity in this scenario by demonstrating its nefarious semiotic subtext! Yours in pain, Jeff. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:30:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Nick Piombino's ::fait accompli:: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit last weekend on ::fait accompli:: http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com *Not Yet* : a new theoretical object last week: Jackson Mac Low: A Few Images check out our selected links from other weblogs thanks for visiting ::fait accompli:: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:41:48 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: stagnation is embedded in the word MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Where are you going my blue-eyed son? Where are you going my darling young one? Oh mother ! Here to my bed, For I fear I am poisoned and soon must lie down." It is always to stop what can be known, not to end anything already known, that moves nations to war; and this as an idea is neither cognitively, nor rationally held, or for that matter remembered, because it is only dimly intuited and deeply subliminal, and only expressed outwardly emotionally as anything other than what it is. It is embedded in language itself. It is the stop, the bumper, the boundary, the edge of the possible world, implanted there to hold the human experience together exactly as it is, but now it is becoming archaic rather than arcane. One cannot stop the charging bull, and absorbing the punishment of the horns for the greater good has proven historically ineffective. One can only present the target, and clearly eye the bull, and step aside at the very last instant. Trinidad Cruz used with permission ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:45:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Adam Good Subject: Call For Submissions - Your Black Eye, an e-Journal for Critical Consciousness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Your Black Eye An e-Journal for Critical Consciousness You started to see things more clearly the moment you were struck... A Call for Articles, Fiction, Film, and Poetry for the First Issue The YBE editors have been punched in the face by their own preconceptions about politics, economics, and culture, and encourage contributions from anyone, regardless of background, reflecting moments of striking critical clarity and black eye encounters with the sublime. We are eager to consider all forms of expression and inquiry that explore such encounters, most especially those manifesting a critical awareness of and engagement in the world at large. You might, for example share your black-eye-perspective on Iraq, the 2004 U.S. Election, deficit spending, gender, sexuality, race, religion, education, immigration, and labor issues, among others. Similarly, we welcome critical examinations of popular culture, contemporary values, and current affairs. Submissions can be in any format, including, but not limited to: • Text: 5000 words or less, any genre, including: essays, fiction, poetry, hybrid forms, and reviews (music, movies, and events) in a MS Word format. • Photos, Paintings, Sculpture, Drawings: (jpg, bmp, gif). • Videos: 10 minutes or less in Real Player or Windows Media Player formats. • Music: 10 minutes or less (mp3, wmv). • Hypertext submissions may be feasible: please inquire. In a time of narrowing perspectives and experiences, we wish to broaden discussion and share what some have referred to as critical consciousness. YBE appreciates works that act as servers to help spread awareness, that contain multiple points of entry and departure. All submissions must be original work, not previously published. Deadline for submissions for the first volume: January 28, 2005. Advance submissions encouraged. Submissions and Inquiries: ybe@yourblackeye.org __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:49:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: city for city, building for building Comments: To: eberrigan@hotmail.com, ed berrigan Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 hi, ed, here's a poem, a little poem, a "true story" written through your 'this win= dow' --- a building, to look at several ways for Edmund Berrigan for Rob Fitterman this building grieves=20 in the sound of itself falling=20 left alone in the wilderness of this building www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:06:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Gitin Subject: Re: Jackson MacLow[Scanned] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Saddened to learn of his passing. I recall arranging for him to read in Monterey (and assisting him in performance) in 1975. I had read his work for years, but we'd never met before. He was charming and we spent hours chatting away. =20 David Gitin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:23:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Rothenberg has asked me to inform you that an electrical fire has destroyed half of his house in California. His son and family escaped injury, but the fire destroyed most of his manuscripts and other archival material. I'm sure many of us, as writers, can sympathize with his loss. Michael will publish the next issue of Big Bridge, but it will probably be delayed. When the situation stabilizes, he will also resume work on Blue Poets in Red States. Because of the unexpected nature of the situation, he doesn't have his computer with him. He can receive e-mail, but can't reply. If anybody has any questions, please backchannel and I'll answer them as best I can. Sincerely, Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:14:05 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 12-13-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last two events of 2004: OPEN READINGS Marlyn Martinez-Saroff Thursday, December 16, 7 P.M. The Book Corner, 1801 Main St., Niagara Falls, NY Dianne Gilleece Sunday, December 19, 7 P.M. Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen Street, Buffalo, NY Here's what we have so far for 2005: January Jan. 28 Special Event at the Albright-Knox Art Gallery, with live dj accompaniment -- Christopher Alexander, Michael Basinski, Gregg Biglieri, Sara Campbell, Barbara Cole, Michael Cross, Thom Donovan, Geoffrey Gatza, Douglas Manson Open Readings 1/12 Ken Feltges 1/16 Maureen O'Connor 1/20 Jennifer Tappenden Workshops: 1/22 Start The New Year Writing, with Jimmie Gilliam 9 a.m.-12 p.m., $40, $30 Members This will be an 'old fashioned' poetry workshop where participants will write for the first hour and read their work the second hour. In the last hour, Jimmie and the group will give feedback and participants will discuss their own, and each others, work. It is being offered as a follow up to The Art of Transformation - but all are welcome and it isn't necessary that you attended that workshop to attend this one. February On 2/1, we will announce our choice for If All Of Buffalo Read The Same Book 2005 Stay tuned. In the Hibiscus Room 4 Anselm Berrigan and Stefan Kiesbye 8 Spotlight on Youth Open Reading 9 Open Reading Featuring Philip Terman and Marjorie Norris 18 Jim Koller and Joel Kuszai Open Readings 2/17, 2/20 2/24-7 Poet's Theater: Mark Nowak's verse play, "Capitalization," to be performed at Torn Space Workshops: 2/5 One-day poetry workshop w/ Anselm Berrigan 2/25 8-week playwriting workshop w/ Kurt Scheniederman begins 2/26 One-day short short fiction workshop with Forest Roth March In the Hibiscus Room 4 Annual Erotica Open Reading Event, hosted by Karen Lewis 19 Trimania - On Saturday, March 19, 2005 from 7 - midnight, Buffalo Arts Studio and Just Buffalo Literary Center will present the biggest party of the winter - four factory floors of the Tri-Main Center will be filled with music dancing, roving performers, art exhibitions, a poetry slam, a cabaret and open artists studios. General admission tickets will be sold in advance at Just Buffalo for $15. Open Readings on 3/9, 3/17, 3/20 Workshops: 3/26 1 of 4 Working Writer Seminars w/ Kathryn Radeff begins April 1 Janine Pomy Vega 7 Buffalo/ Williamsville Poetry, Music and Dance Celebratio, w/ Li Young Lee and public school dancers, musicians, composers and poets from throughout the region. 8 Richard Deming and Nancy Kuhl 10 Possible special event featuring international fiction superstar.stay tuned. 15 Peter Conners and Sherrie Flick Open Readings 4/13, 4/17, 4/21 May Peter Johnson residency for World of Voices, May 9-13 Workshops 5/14 One-day poetry workshop with Marj Hahne More to come. _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:44:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: New Celan volume Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Just out: LIGHTDURESS by Paul Celan Translated from the German & with an Introduction by Pierre Joris A bilingual edition Green Integer 113 ISBN 1-931243-75-1 $12.95 Green Integer | 6022 Wilshire Boulevard, Ste 200A | Los Angeles, CA 90036 (323) 857-1115 ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Always keep the tempo -- Steve Lacy ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12210 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ================================================= Ps. note new zip code in snailmail address below. ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Always keep the tempo -- Steve Lacy ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:14:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "E. Tracy Grinnell" Subject: New Release: Another Kind of Tenderness, by Xue Di Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable NEW from Litmus Press: Another Kind of Tenderness, by Xue Di Translated by Keith Waldrop, Forrest Gander, Stephen Thomas, Theodore Deppe and Sue Ellen Thompson with Hu Qian, Wang Ping, Hil Anderson, Waverly and Iona Crook. Peter Gizzi comments: Xue Di=B9s poetry is at once fierce and tender. The poems in this collection are charged with ambient details, each one so chosen out of desire and the impossible need to articulate the beloved throughout the perceptual world. The translations are stunning. This is gorgeous work. from Theodore Deppe's introduction: Another Kind of Tenderness is one of poetry=B9s miracles. How else explain it? In the natural order of things, a boy who is beaten daily does not become a poet this gentle and wise; a six-year old abandoned by both parent= s in Beijing (a city then of about 8 million people) does not become a man wh= o can write such a luminous book of love poems. =8AAnother Kind of Tenderness opens with a splendid sequence of lyric poems. =B3Cat=B9s Eye in a Splintered Mirror=B2 is unmistakably contemporary yet it also feels rooted in the tradition of Li Po and Tu Fu. Like the poems of the Tang dynasty, the poet is presented as an exile, a wanderer, moving through =B3unfolding layers of landscape,=B2 recalling the one he loves=8A Another Kind of Tenderness ISBN: 0-9723331-4-2 127 pages, paperback $15 US Please visit www.litmuspress.org for more information All Litmus Press titles are available through Small Press Distribution at www.spdbooks.org Also new from Litmus Press: The Mudra, by Kerri Sonnenberg Aufgabe #4 with guest editor Sawako Nakayasu=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:16:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: "Snapshots, Aesthetics & the Flea Market" Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For those interested in found objects, flea markets, up on the blog I've got "Snapshots, Aesthetics & the Flea Market" - a little new essay. Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 15:23:58 -0500 Reply-To: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: I failed the Blake test! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A few responses to Ron Silliman's latest provocation on my blog: http://www.arras.net/fscII/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:24:45 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: NFB film: NEIL STONECHILD INQUIRY MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [IPSM] NFB film: NEIL STONECHILD INQUIRY Indigenous Peoples Solidarity Movment - Montreal ipsm at resist.ca Mon Dec 6 17:12:08 PST 2004 NATIONAL FILM BOARD OF CANADA NATIONAL BROADCAST PREMIERE OF TWO WORLDS COLLIDING - THE STORY BEHIND THE NEIL STONECHILD INQUIRY Nov. 18 2004 The National Film Board of Canada announces that the national broadcast premiere of Two Worlds Colliding, written and directed by Tasha Hubbard, airs on CBC Newsworld's Rough Cuts Thursday, December 9 and Saturday, December 11 at 10pm and 1 am ET/PT. Two Worlds Colliding chronicles the painful story of what came to be known as Saskatoon's infamous "freezing deaths," and the schism between a fearful, mistrustful Aboriginal community and a police force that must come to terms with a shocking secret. "This is an important time for Saskatoon - and Canada - as this is an ongoing conflict, and at the heart of the conflict is denial and misunderstanding of the First Nations' urban experience," said Hubbard, a Cree adopted into a non-aboriginal family with a policing tradition. "I think this film gives people a chance to hear from those most affected - the families and the police themselves. It gives context to the reports we hear in the media about the Stonechild inquiry. It's the story behind the accusations and the findings." One bone-chilling January night in 2000, Aboriginal man Darrell Night was dumped in the outskirts of Saskatoon by two police officers. He was stunned to hear that the frozen body of another Aboriginal man had been discovered in the same remote area. A few days later another body was found, just a few hundred metres away. When Night stepped forward, he set into motion a chain of events that included a major RCMP investigation, the conviction of the two officers, and an inquiry to determine whether police had any involvement in an old case - the 1990 freezing death of Neil Stonechild. In this documentary, Night recounts his ordeal in a rare interview. The parents of Lawrence Wegner, one of the dead men, poignantly talk about the answers they seek. The sergeant who first believes Night's story and a former RCMP officer brought in as a special investigator reveal the shame they feel for their profession surrounding such incidents. Another police chief is brought in to lead the Saskatoon force, but it remains to be seen whether the gulf between two worlds can ever be bridged. Last month, the Neil Stonechild inquiry concluded the Saulteaux teen found frozen to death outside Saskatoon in 1990, had been in the custody of Constables Brad Senger and Larry Hartwig the night he died. Police chief Russ Sabo accepted the findings of the Inquiry and on Nov. 12, 2004 he fired the two police officers from the Saskatoon Police Service. Senger and Hartwig are appealing the decision. Two Worlds Colliding is produced by Bonnie Thompson from the NFB's North West Centre in Edmonton. The film is Hubbard's directorial debut and part of the NFB's Aboriginal Filmmaking Program. Now in its 65th year, the National Film Board of Canada has produced more than 10,000 films and other audiovisual works, and won more than 4,500 awards - including 10 OscarsR. As Canada's public film producer, the NFB produces and distributes distinctive, culturally diverse, challenging and relevant audiovisual works that provide Canada and the world with a unique Canadian perspective. To purchase NFB releases or for more information, visit www.nfb.ca or call 1-800-267-7710. -30- High-resolution images can be downloaded at: www.nfb.ca/photogallery/twoworldscolliding For more information: Kirsten Andrews, NFB Media Relations (604) 666-1151 | cel: (604) 764-7040 | k.andrews@nfb.ca Revolution is Bloody: http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ Of murder and a friend... http://indymedia.existere.com/newswire/display_any/21 ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:08:03 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: "Snapshots, Aesthetics & the Flea Market" In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Stephen I enjoyed your essay, which seems to me an essay in the proper sense, a wander into the unknown! - thanks - Best Alison Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:58:21 -0600 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Look who failed the Blake test... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you believe this garbage? It "says nothing to me about my life" (the "Morrissey Test") -- and it doesn't even rhyme! I would never buy this in a book: http://www.guggenheimcollection.org/site/artist_work_lg_117_3.html This one doesn't rhyme _or_ scan -- what a load of horse poopy! What did Rob Grenier write about singing from the diaphragm? We should send this guy back to Argentina! Send _all_ of them back! http://www.sculpture.org.uk/image/000000100100-0 This one doesn't even appear to be in American. It's just numbers! And what is a "Carlos" anyway. (I think this guy's gay.) Modernism hasn't been any good in twenty years. Something there is that doesn't wub-a-dub: http://www.usc.edu/schools/annenberg/asc/projects/comm544/library/images/429 bg.jpg What is this, some kind of f*cking joke? I don't even think he _wrote_ this! Olson would sue! Wyndham Lewis would sue! Google would sue! (I had to use my back button to get out of this one.) http://s.p.a.m.free.fr/03/actual%20size%20revisited.htm Maybe this whole poetry thing isn't for me after all. I think I'll stick to pointing video cameras at skyscrapers and playing my iPod too loud in church. It's all so confusing, so. _demanding_ -- if only Robert Lowell hadn't ruined it all by putting his lines in a book! ;) Love, Brian ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:16:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: I Told Them Virginia Pronouncing "No, Night" Was Never Nature Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed she would throw the sack oh not hard enough, V, not quite so far as a' that for it was this sea above me & beneath what rid me of her I found some letters, V, and their narrators themselves, above me and beneath and the narrators themselves went upstairs again, broken o'er me was their slow straight line ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:23:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: andrew loewen Subject: Guilty of Being White. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> States, however, differ significantly in white fertility. The most fecund whites are in heavily Mormon Utah, which, not coincidentally, was the only state where Bush received over 70 percent. White women average 2.45 babies in Utah compared to merely 1.11 babies in Washington, D.C., where Bush earned but 9 percent. The three New England states where Bush won less than 40 percent—Massachusetts, Vermont, and Rhode Island—are three of the four states with the lowest white birthrates, with little Rhode Island dipping below 1.5 babies per woman. Bush carried the 19 states with the highest white fertility (just as he did in 2000), and 25 out of the top 26, with highly unionized Michigan being the one blue exception to the rule. (The least prolific red states are West Virginia, North Dakota, and Florida.) In sharp contrast, Kerry won the 16 states at the bottom of the list, with the Democrats’ anchor states of California (1.65) and New York (1.72) having quite infertile whites. Among the 50 states plus Washington, D.C., white total fertility correlates at a remarkably strong 0.86 level with Bush’s percentage of the 2004 vote. (In 2000, the correlation was 0.85.) In the social sciences, a correlation of 0.2 is considered “low,” 0.4 “medium,” and 0.6 “high.” You could predict 74 percent of the variation in Bush’s shares just from knowing each state’s white fertility rate. When the average fertility goes up by a tenth of a child, Bush’s share normally goes up by 4.5 points.<< http://www.amconmag.com/2004_12_20/cover.html Someone stop this white ideological inbreeding already! Cease and desist all this scandalous breeding and propagating, for the love of humanity. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:56:25 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Look who failed the Blake test... Ron is related to Tennyson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sent this to Brian - but should certainly be on the list also ++Subject: Re: Look who failed the Blake test... Ron is related to Tennyson Brian I tried to view the poem/vispo on your site but my screen just went blank - I mean the poem that Ron was apparently talking about - I haven't seen Ron's Blog lately but was interested - Ron can be very astute but he probably gets too smart for his own boots at times - gets too finicky - he's undoubteldy a great poet - but then he is so deeply embedded on his Blog he is like a hermite these days surrounded by masses of texts and books and dust and peering through his prinz nez and muttering to himself (alas!) so re his comments about you - I would take them/it with huge dollopps of salt and codswollop !! Mind you - I dont know what I'm talking about* specifically as I havent seen either Ron's Blog to lately or your work!! But in general I think the following are problems to be looked at seriously in this controversy: 1) that the fact Ron is related to Tennyson and 2) he is (or thinks of himself as) the "Great Guru of Language Poetry" has probably gone to his head a bit. Richard Taylor (the Mad Kiwi) * "Not knowing what I am talking about will never stop me from jiving on." Barrett Watten. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Stefans" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:58 PM > Subject: Look who failed the Blake test... > > > > Do you believe this garbage? It "says nothing to me about my life" (the > > "Morrissey Test") -- and it doesn't even rhyme! I would never buy this in > a > > book: > > > > > > > > http://www.guggenheimcollection.org/site/artist_work_lg_117_3.html > > > > > > > > This one doesn't rhyme _or_ scan -- what a load of horse poopy! What did > > Rob Grenier write about singing from the diaphragm? We should send this > guy > > back to Argentina! Send _all_ of them back! > > > > > > > > http://www.sculpture.org.uk/image/000000100100-0 > > > > > > > > This one doesn't even appear to be in American. It's just numbers! And > > what is a "Carlos" anyway. (I think this guy's gay.) Modernism hasn't > been > > any good in twenty years. Something there is that doesn't wub-a-dub: > > > > > > > > > http://www.usc.edu/schools/annenberg/asc/projects/comm544/library/images/429 > > bg.jpg > > > > > > > > What is this, some kind of f*cking joke? I don't even think he _wrote_ > > this! Olson would sue! Wyndham Lewis would sue! Google would sue! (I > had > > to use my back button to get out of this one.) > > > > > > > > http://s.p.a.m.free.fr/03/actual%20size%20revisited.htm > > > > > > > > Maybe this whole poetry thing isn't for me after all. I think I'll stick > to > > pointing video cameras at skyscrapers and playing my iPod too loud in > > church. It's all so confusing, so. _demanding_ -- if only Robert Lowell > > hadn't ruined it all by putting his lines in a book! > > > > > > > > ;) > > > > > > > > Love, > > Brian > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:48:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Guilty of Being White. In-Reply-To: <20041214002358.18435.qmail@web51509.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As one probably has frequently noticed, white liberals are more prone to saying, "Fuck-Off" in general, where Republicans, at least under their breath can be heard saying or signaling "Fuck" to their fellow ideological kind. Though the facts are interesting here, the subject heading, "White guilt", I find a counter-productive generic stereotype - no matter who uses it. It's what you do, not what you is. So, in terms of the subject heading , to it I say "F' Off" Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com >>> > States, however, differ significantly in white > fertility. The most fecund whites are in heavily > Mormon Utah, which, not coincidentally, was the only > state where Bush received over 70 percent. White women > average 2.45 babies in Utah compared to merely 1.11 > babies in Washington, D.C., where Bush earned but 9 > percent. The three New England states where Bush won > less than 40 percent?Massachusetts, Vermont, and Rhode > Island?are three of the four states with the lowest > white birthrates, with little Rhode Island dipping > below 1.5 babies per woman. > > Bush carried the 19 states with the highest white > fertility (just as he did in 2000), and 25 out of the > top 26, with highly unionized Michigan being the one > blue exception to the rule. (The least prolific red > states are West Virginia, North Dakota, and Florida.) > > In sharp contrast, Kerry won the 16 states at the > bottom of the list, with the Democrats? anchor states > of California (1.65) and New York (1.72) having quite > infertile whites. > > Among the 50 states plus Washington, D.C., white total > fertility correlates at a remarkably strong 0.86 level > with Bush?s percentage of the 2004 vote. (In 2000, the > correlation was 0.85.) In the social sciences, a > correlation of 0.2 is considered ?low,? 0.4 ?medium,? > and 0.6 ?high.? > > You could predict 74 percent of the variation in > Bush?s shares just from knowing each state?s white > fertility rate. When the average fertility goes up by > a tenth of a child, Bush?s share normally goes up by > 4.5 points.<< > > http://www.amconmag.com/2004_12_20/cover.html > > > > Someone stop this white ideological inbreeding > already! Cease and desist all this scandalous breeding > and propagating, for the love of humanity. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:12:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: ...not just the otorhinolaryngological caverns Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Didn't even have the balls to accept the award.....) Tom Wolfe wins bad sex award Monday, December 13, 2004 Posted: 4:06 PM EST (2106 GMT) LONDON, England (Reuters) -- American author and journalist Tom Wolfe won one of the world's most dreaded literary accolades on Monday -- the British prize for bad sex in fiction. The prize is awarded each year "to draw attention to the crude, tasteless, often perfunctory use of redundant passages of sexual description in the modern novel." Wolfe won it for a couple of purple passages from his latest novel "I am Charlotte Simmons," a tale of campus life at an exclusive U.S. university. "Slither slither slither slither went the tongue," one of his winning sentences begins. "But the hand that was what she tried to concentrate on, the hand, since it has the entire terrain of her torso to explore and not just the otorhinolaryngological caverns -- oh God, it was not just at the border where the flesh of the breast joins the pectoral sheath of the chest -- no, the hand was cupping her entire right -- Now!" Judges described Wolfe's prose as "ghastly and boring." Wolfe has said in interviews he intended the book's sexual descriptions to be dry and clinical. The former newspaper correspondent, whose debut novel "Bonfire of the Vanities" was a defining text of the 1980s, fought off stiff competition from 10 other authors, including South African Andre Brink, whose novel "Before I Forget" contains the following description of a woman's vulva: "(It was) like a large exotic mushroom in the fork of a tree, a little pleasure dome if ever I've seen one, where Alph the sacred river ran down to a tideless sea. No, not tideless. Her tides were convulsive, an ebb and flow that could take you very far, far back, before hurling you out, wildly and triumphantly, on a ribbed and windswept beach without end." Another writer who only narrowly escaped the prize was Britain's Nadeem Aslam for his novel "Maps for Lost Lovers," a tale of life in a Muslim community in an English town. "His mouth looked for the oiled berry," one of his raunchiest passages starts. "The smell of his armpits was on her shoulders -- a flower depositing pollen on a hummingbird's forehead," another reads. The winner of the award, organized by the London-based Literary Review, is given an Oscar-style statuette and a bottle of champagne -- but only if he or she comes to the awards ceremony in person. Organizers said Wolfe, who is based in New York, was the first writer in the 12-year history of the competition to decline his invitation. http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/books/12/13/odd.literature.sex.reut/ index.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:55:29 -0500 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: FW: Winter Solstice Reading at CPF Tues., December 21st MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends, The BROOKLYN RAIL PRESENTS An evening reading to celebrate the Winter Solstice -- Please join us at Cheryl Pelavin Fine Arts for a Winter Solstice celebration with readings from these highly regarded poets and writers. There will be drinks, snacks, and lots of atmosphere (Tamara Gonzales' show will be up with a few added touches). You are encouraged to wear a funny hat! 6 - 8 PM - Tuesday - December 21, 2004 John Yau Amy King Monica de la Torre Phong Bui Arthur Bradford The Egyptian and Persian traditions of celebrating the return of the sun merged in ancient Rome in a festival to the ancient god of seed-time, Saturn. The people gave themselves up to wild joy. The usual order of the year was suspended: grudges and quarrels forgotten, wars interrupted or postponed. Rich and poor were equal, masters served slaves, children headed the family. Cross-dressing and masquerades, merriment of all kinds prevailed. A mock king -- the Lord of Misrule -- was crowned. Candles and lamps chased away the spirits of darkness. Cheryl Pelavin Fine Arts, 13 Jay Street, New York, NY 10013-2848 Jay Street is two blocks south of Franklin between Greenwich and Hudson St. Tel: (212) 925-9424 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:11:31 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: time for a change MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit new proving how we think with our words erecting joyously clearly unknown love totally new thinking grandly implants a name making visible a place not yet seen nor understood expecting truth to entrance reality living loving minds find eternity maryjo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:58:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassandra Laity Subject: Special T.S. Eliot/MSA issue of Modernism/Modernity Comments: To: modbrits@listserv.kent.edu, modernism@lists.village.virginia.edu, tse@lists.missouri.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Special T. S. Eliot Issue/MSA Issue of Modernism/Modernity (11:3) is no= w on-line through Project Muse . MSA Members can set up a password at . Mail date, Dec. 16. To order/subscribe/join, call 1-800-548-1784 or e-mail . Contents T. S. ELIOT IN THE 21ST CENTURY 1. The Distinguished Shaman: T. S. Eliot's Portraits in Modern Art=20 Nuzhat Bukhari=20 (long photo-essay contains 18 photos/etchings/caricatures of Eliot (with co= mmentary on artists and their work with Eliot) by artists such as Man Ray= , Cecil Beaton, Elliot & Fry, McKnight Kauffer, David Low, Topolski, Czer= manski, and others) 2. T. S. Eliot and A. C. Swinburne: Decadent Bodies, Modern Visualities, an= d Changing Modes of Perception Cassandra Laity 3. In the Shadows: Popular Song and Eliot's Construction of Emotion David E. Chinitz 4. In Pursuit of Wilde Possum: Reflections on Eliot, Modernism, and the Nin= eties Ronald Bush MSA ISSUE 1. Iris Barry, Writer and Cineaste, Forming Film Culture in London 1924-192= 6: the Adelphi, the Spectator, the Film Society, and the British Vogue=20 Leslie Kathleen Hankins 2. Gadze Modernism Janet Lyon 3. _Alan's Wife_: Mother Love and Theatrical Sociability in London of the 1= 890s Katherine E. Kelly 4. The Rebirth of Tragedy: Yeats, Nietzche, the Irish National Theatre, and= the Anti-Modern Cult of Cuchulain Michael Valdez Moses Review Essays Fluxier-than-Thou . . . Marjorie Perloff Camembert: The Fermentation of a National Myth . . . Jean-Michel Rabate Book Reviews David Martyn Sublime Failures: The Ethics of Kant and Sade . . . James Gordon Finlayson Margaret Werth The Joy of Life: The Idyllic in French Art, circa 1900 . . . Ellen McBreen Nicholas Royle The Uncanny: An Introduction . . . Havi Carel Cassandra Laity and Nancy Gish, eds. Gender, Sexuality, and Desire in T. S. Eliot . . . Rachel Blau DuPlessis Carmen L. Oliveira Rare and Commonplace Flowers: The Story of Elizabeth Bishop and Lota de Mac= edo Soares, Translated by Neil K. Besner Kim Fortuny Elizabeth Bishop: The Art of Travel . . . Bonnie Costello Jane Marcus Hearts of Darkness: White Women Write Race . . . Phyllis Lassner Lydia Marhoff Zwischen Abwehr und Anpassung: Strategien der Realitatsverarbeitung in den = Texten nichtfaschister junger Autorinnen von 1930-1945 . . . Mary Macfarl= ane Jo Labanyi, ed. Constructing Identity in Contemporary Spain: Theoretical Debates and Cultur= al Practice=20 Susan Kirkpatrick Mujer, modernismo y vanguardia en Espana (1898-1931) . . . Jordana Mendelso= n John Zilcosky Kafka's Travels: Exoticism, Colonialism, and the Traffic of Writing . . . S= abine Wilke Susannah Young-ah Gottlieb Regions of Sorrow: Anxiety and Messianism in Hannah Arendt and W.H. Auden .= . . Charlotte Taylor Cassandra Laity Associate Professor Co-Editor, _Modernism/Modernity_ Department of English Drew University Madison, NJ 07940 Phone: 973-408-3141 Fax: 973-408-3040 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:27:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: more midnights Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed & midnight howls a storm in this passage we are but seeds scattered across distance to trace figures in the finite that extend portraits of broken symphonies that are frozen in the gutter to magazine clippings of the next to dead that slow march always present we death a little I & are planted in the wind. I am not sure if I will ever make Perfect sense of you again I can only guess At the moment it arrives & my eyes wide open Glaring down the screen saying to myself, I called you To answer & answer each night does Something to behold no wars to be fought here The dead already the entire universe Just outside touching the window tap tap seeds Seeds we are in deeds we are covered by a thin layer A hard capsule & inside as fluid as wind seeds In a small confine we wait explode under proper Conditions water, sunlight All of this notably absent this night never ceases The inner yerma or desert It can never grow out of this particular solitude That is why love is searching frantic through a maze of these lines Each one nearer to rest each one farther from the horizon Discarded fragments concealed apologies None of this matters which is to say It gets closer to poetry every time. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:35:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: andrew loewen Subject: Re: Republicans Birthin' like Bunnies. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>As one probably has frequently noticed, white liberals are more prone to saying, "Fuck-Off" in general, where Republicans, at least under their breath can be heard saying or signaling "Fuck" to their fellow ideological kind. Though the facts are interesting here, the subject heading, "White guilt", I find a counter-productive generic stereotype - no matter who uses it. It's what you do, not what you is. So, in terms of the subject heading to it I say "F' Off"<< Oh fuck I I guess I fucked up. Stereotype is as stereotype does. Stereotype does as stereotype is. Types fuck in stereo as fucked as I type? Oh no! White liberals prone and Republicans bone! Too much Dalachinsky and my voice has fucked off down the road! What’s left for the left to do but “Fuck and Run?” While I agree entirely that “white guilt” is unproductive, the post was titled in jest. But fuck me for *making light of race.* I guess. The title was also a blatant nod to a much fraught Minor Threat song of the same name. But yes, the facts, the facts as you say are interesting. 3 Cheers for the facts and one Fuck for the name. Meanwhile. . . the quaint hum of rutting Republicans rubbing their bums. The link again, perhaps we can start fresh without shame or guilt: "Baby Gap: How birthrates color the electoral map" By Steve Sailer http://www.amconmag.com/2004_12_20/cover.html ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 00:07:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the $ | ------------------------| 31 induit 31 | regards, | | ________________________________________________ / \ / \ // // ___________________________________/ relationss fd | | | | |__________________________________________________| 30 31 to consider... be excluded... to honey of tommorrow! at vincennes.) as well! of _rust._ of adolescence. at all. or another. to city. no doubt to emerge of falsehood.) we handle? or hypothesis. me in.) on it at last moment.) or not... planet. several years.) as sonority. of space of subjectivity. of them. to this.) of touch. no voice._) as well. of wood it. space. standby! apart draw move become shunts. picture it! body! *me back!* >beginning. libido. subject: residue subroutines... substances. much room. occlusions. becomes an additional expression becomes an additional expression recorded. encounters encouraged. and chance. and description. and limited... and quicker. and site. end-user. ended. indeterminacies. mediated relationships. mediating materials. addiction. addressed.) addresses. bedroom. the body. the container the emotional-closeup. the innocent. the machinery._ the narrative... the past. the streets! the symbolic. the text. the train.) the vertical. die). are. "leaks." dreams uneasy death. breathe. weathers ... electronic display! electronic subjectivity. freedom. queendom! field!> relevance. hielo internet... them. themselves indefinitely. phenomenology. user. there. terrible beauty. every year. everything happens! everything... everywhere. eyes.) these processes. dressed. poetic faith." poetry? plexing network. ! exit off. effaced - effaced. differentiation. inflations... before possible. left one! ing listening. light light. begins. register' operations. english translation: fugue-net - :there is currently no one else here with you. others. otherwise. imho.] _differance_. originary scenario. child. being _well._ point. wainwright, 1956: this last? this. episteme. aristotle pause. writing this! private dream-screen-memory...) like that. nakedness... a kingdom. (alan): honey, i hear it, speaking your name (alan): honey, i hear it, speaking your name fulfillment. enlightenment. well. syllables. collapsed. telling. following readjustments: falters. i'm gonna kill everybody. i'm gonna start with me. i'm gonna kill everybody. i'm gonna start with me. somalia, peru... symbolic. momentarily - momentary flirtations... names.) limit. communicative domain. rumors. memory... almost killed. can be! beneath them. general. generates overflow.) confession sunken head?) announcing themselves. construct. constructs. mont.) many fights. proceeds. process. process.) :lol _something else._) tion. tion.) phonemic. people. whose voice? wrote it. another street. "nothing-but." protocol, etc. thoughts together. know everything. slowly raised. capabilities! apparent anonymity). experienced... capital. representation. depression... repressive sublimation.) reproduction... lips. laptop. for them._ far. for...borderline personality... strange... lord. core. here. more. here... already lost... scream. screen. screen. screen.) forever... sweet... screwdriver... perfect. perfection - myriad. scription. world. term say? normalization? terminal philosophy. murmur-space. through. through. mirror-stage. mirror. personal demons. first place. tory prose. description. inscription. inscription...") myself itself .. itself. myself. itself. elsewhere. desire... suspect. disquieting communication. cesses/gestures). possibly be? mistakes. systems operator. destinations ... destruction. not brackets.) totalizing? ... watching ostensible content. after school. interconnected nodes. interconnectivity. exterior. determined. internet. gateways. with you. withdrawal - mathematics. authentically vaginal. bothered email. nothing. author's name. into invisibility. goto one retributions! matter -- matter altogether. latter. patterns. sutured mouths. sutured shut. you away. neural networking. neurosis) a user. have. never afraid. never there. never visible. inversion_ that: power. powerless.) powerlessness... rewritten. sexuality. psychosis. oozed forth. _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:49:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Being & not being MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Being and Being Drunk la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as the street blank light makes 10 entrances & 40 medicams knew from their hollow auto-eye instincts that young girl race her dreams like phillies @ the green is a bust & beads of rain - bus up 6th ave wow and she celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates nothing me yet not like what you have brought home from their hollow auto-eye instincts that you may not like beads of the way that bore it then the street is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & beads of rain on the chase has ended a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the way that here knowing hunger still exists & la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it over the we go as the skin long after relics mulled it over the way that bore it end trails the wavers & arrangements 57 is a counterfeit gap of snow. rain on average the sight we go as it end trails the skin the wavers & beads of sweat pasted onto my back i am not like phillies @ the wavers & la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it wow'dya see that i betray my back i waltz outta here the house we could not/would not like what you think that young boy kiss the wavers & i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the green is even deny the eves grow all about us i's all about us all sights o' men make war in a lonely roach on average the fancy health food joint i have a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow you hear 1290 overdue loftway united by nayats flies in la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it then the bead store sign & that bore it end trails the city mort gage fixed i eat in peace's name to i am not the green is no ride tafragmith this meant as it over the bead store sign & arrangements 57 is awash like beads of juice deals lost tribes dead in la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as a lonely roach on the we live in la comida encapsule pronounced "sool" this is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & that young boy kiss the sight we go as a counterfeit gap of the we could not/would not like phillies @ the we could not/would not like what you have a lonely roach on average the skin long after relics mulled it end trails the bead store sign & beads of snow. rain on the chile did wonder in wife bitten by those that young girl race her dreams like beads of the skin the break-away from the eves grow all about us all about us i's all about us=20 II la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as a counterfeit gap of rain on average the way that here knowing hunger still exists & beads of rain on the chase has ended a counterfeit gap of the skin long after relics mulled it over the city mort gage fixed i eat in a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow and she celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates nothing me yet not like phillies @ the city mort gage fixed i have a bust & arrangements 57 is a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the bead store sign & beads of sweat pasted onto my back i am not like what you have a counterfeit gap of the skin the green is no ride tafragmith this is even deny the fancy health food joint i waltz outta here the way that bore it wow'dya see that young boy kiss the wavers & beads of the fancy health food joint i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the eves grow all about us all about us all about us i's all sights o' men make war in wife bitten by nayats flies in la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it then the eves grow all about us i's all sights o' men make war in peace's name to i am not like phillies @ the we could not/would not like what you think that i have a counterfeit gap of snow. rain on average the skin the bead store sign & arrangements 57 is a counterfeit gap of sweat pasted onto my back i am not like phillies @ the green is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & beads of rain on the wavers & arrangements 57 is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & that here knowing hunger still exists & arrangements 57 is no ride tafragmith this is a counterfeit gap of snow. rain - the we could not/would not like beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow and she celebrates nothing me yet not like what you hear 1290 overdue loftway united by nayats flies in wife bitten by nayats flies in peace's name to i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the street blank light makes 10 entrances & arrangements 57 is even deny the street blank light makes 10 entrances & beads of snow. rain on the sight we live in la comida encapsule pronounced "sool" this is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as a counterfeit gap of sweat pasted onto my back i betray my back i eat in la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it end trails the eves grow all about us i's all about us i's all about us=20 III la comida encapsule pronounced "sool" this is even deny the wavers & la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it then the bead store sign & beads of snow. rain on average the we could not/would not like what you have a counterfeit gap of sweat pasted onto my back i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the sight we could not/would not like phillies @ the we could not/would not like phillies @ the way that young boy kiss the we could not/would not like what you have a bust & beads of the chase has ended a counterfeit gap of snow. rain on the we could not/would not like what you hear 1290 overdue loftway united by nayats flies in wife bitten by nayats flies in peace's name to i am not like phillies @ the eves grow all about us i's all sights o' men make war in peace's name to i have a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the wavers & beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the city mort gage fixed i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the wavers & beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the skin the fancy health food joint i am not like beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow and she celebrates nothing me yet not like beads of snow. rain on the green is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & arrangements 57 is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & arrangements 57 is even deny the fancy health food joint i waltz outta here the fancy health food joint i have a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the street blank light makes 10 entrances & beads of rain - the city mort gage fixed i eat in wife bitten by nayats flies in wife bitten by nayats flies in peace's name to i am not like what you hear 1290 overdue loftway united by nayats flies in la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it then the we could not/would not like phillies @ the street blank light makes 10 entrances & beads of sweat pasted onto my back i waltz outta here knowing hunger still exists & beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the eves grow all about us i's all about us=20 IV la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it then the green is a lonely roach on average the fancy health food joint i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the skin the wavers & arrangements 57 is no ride tafragmith this is no ride tafragmith this is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & arrangements 57 is even deny the way that i waltz outta here knowing hunger still exists & beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow and she celebrates nothing me yet not like beads of the city mort gage fixed i am not like phillies @ the city mort gage fixed i am not like beads of rain on average the green is no ride tafragmith this is a lonely roach on average the skin the wavers & beads of rain on average the wavers & arrangements 57 is a lonely roach on the eves grow all about us all about us all about us i's all about us all about us la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as a counterfeit gap of sweat pasted onto my back i eat in wife bitten by nayats flies in la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it wow'dya see that here knowing hunger still exists & beads of snow. rain on average the wavers & beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the fancy health food joint i am not like what you hear 1290 overdue loftway united by nayats flies in la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it end trails the chile did wonder in a lonely roach on the eves grow all about us i's all about us la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it end trails the skin long after relics mulled it then the green is even deny the city mort gage fixed i betray my back i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the sight we could not/would not like phillies @ the wavers & arrangements 57 is a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow you think that bore it wow'dya see that young boy kiss the wavers & beads of the we could not/would not like what you may not like phillies @ the street blank light makes 10 entrances & beads of the street blank light makes 10 entrances & beads of the eves grow all about us i's all about us i's all about us i's all about us la comida encapsule pronounced "sool" this is a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the city mort gage fixed i have a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow you may not like what you think that here knowing hunger still exists & beads of the fancy health food joint i am not like what you hear 1290 overdue loftway united by nayats flies in peace's name to i am not like what you hear 1290 overdue loftway united by nayats flies in a lonely roach on the break-away from their hollow auto-eye instincts that bore it wow'dya see that you have a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the green is a bust & beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow and she celebrates nothing me yet not like phillies @ the sight we could not/would not like phillies @ the fancy health food joint i have a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow you think that young boy kiss the way that here knowing hunger still exists & beads of sweat pasted onto my back i betray my back i am not like phillies @ the fancy health food joint i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the wavers & arrangements 57 is no ride tafragmith this is even deny the skin the wavers & la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it over the we go as it then the sight we could not/would not like what you have brought home from their hollow auto-eye instincts that here the wavers & arrangements 57 is a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the fancy health food joint i eat in wife bitten by nayats flies in la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as the green is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow and she celebrates nothing me yet not like what you have a lonely roach on average the sight we could not/would not like phillies @ the we could not/would not like what you have a counterfeit gap of sweat pasted onto my back i have a counterfeit gap of snow. rain on average the wavers & i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the we could not/would not like phillies @ the wavers & beads of the chase has ended a lonely roach on the way that here the skin long after relics mulled it then the we could not/would not like phillies @ the wavers & beads of sweat pasted onto my back i am not like phillies @ the way that young girl race her dreams like what you hear 1290 overdue loftway united by nayats flies in la comida encapsule pronounced "sool" this meant as it then the street blank light makes 10 entrances & beads of snow. rain on average the eves grow all about us all about us i's all sights o' men make war in la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it then the bead store sign & beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow and she celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates nothing me yet not like phillies @ the we could not/would not like what you have a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the we could not/would not like what you have a counterfeit gap of rain on average the wavers & la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as the city mort gage fixed i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the fancy health food joint i walk white/stopped buy we-tongue profiles cellular man felled again before the wavers & beads of snow. rain on average the wavers & beads of sweat pasted onto my back i waltz outta here knowing hunger still exists & la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as a counterfeit gap of snow. rain - bus up 6th ave wow and she celebrates nothing me yet not like what you may not like beads of the skin the green is a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the green is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & arrangements 57 is awash like beads of snow. rain on average the way that i have a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the sight we live in la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as the we go as a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the we could not/would not like what you have a counterfeit gap of sweat pasted onto my back i waltz outta here the fancy health food joint i eat in la comida encapsule pronounced "sool" this meant as it end trails the street is even deny the skin the chile did wonder in la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as it wow'dya see that i have a counterfeit gap of sweat pasted onto my back i have brought home from their hollow auto-eye instincts that young boy kiss the chase has ended a counterfeit gap of the fancy health food joint i waltz outta here the wavers & beads of sweat pasted onto my back i am not like what you hear 1290 overdue loftway united by nayats flies in wife bitten by nayats flies in wife bitten by nayats flies in peace's name to i have a counterfeit gap of the bead store sign & beads of rain on average the house we could not/would not like phillies @ the bead store sign & beads of snow. rain on the house we go as it over the street blank light makes 10 entrances & beads of rain on average the green is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the break-away from their hollow auto-eye instincts that bore it over the street is one full year platelettes beadports proto-genesis & beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the eves grow all about us all about us i's all about us i's all sights o' men make war in a lonely roach on average the fancy health food joint i have a counterfeit gap of sweat pasted onto my back i have brought home from the skin long after relics mulled it end trails the bead store sign & la goof kraps out rolls along whiskeyly as a counterfeit gap of snow. rain on the green is no ride tafragmith this meant as the wavers & beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the city mort gage fixed i betray my back i eat in peace's name to i have a counterfeit gap of snow. rain - bus up 6th ave wow and she celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates nothing me yet not like beads of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - the we could not/would not like what you have a counterfeit gap of every month vying for kenneth patchen yeh - bus up 6th ave wow and she celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates x-mas wowowowowowow mine celebrates nothing me yet not like phillies @ the wavers & arrangements 57 is a counterfeit gap of rain on average the city mort gage fixed i am not like phillies @ the skin the street blank light makes 10 entrances & beads of snow. rain on the green is a lonely roach on the eves grow all about us i's all about us i's all about us i's all about us=20 August Highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:54:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: What is a man of letters? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is a man of letters? Is he judged only by his work? Or should his personal and private life be taken into consideration? Should writers be highly evolved human beings/men as well as a man of = letters, or is professional achievements enough Should writers be held to a higher standard of evaluation than other = people? Can a man be a man letters AND an have an untreated psychological = disorder? Or does he need to have his disorder treated to be a true man = of letters? Can he be a wife-beater, a family-abandoner, an alcoholic, a substance = abuser, a womanizer/adulterer and still be a man of letters? What makes a poet/writer qualify as a true man of letters? Only his accomplishments as a writer? Or also his character as a human being? August --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 01:04:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: for tomorrow's text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed for tomorrow's text http://www.asondheim.org/spool.mov preview for your eyes only sympathy for the devil redux 1+1 +++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:31:58 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? In-Reply-To: <003401c4e1a1$724d4f70$0d00a8c0@AugustDell> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What is a woman of letters? Is she only a human being? Could she be a wife-beater, a family-abandoner, an alcoholic, a substance abuser, a womanizer/adulterer? Would she then qualify as a true woman of letters? (Or is she simply an alphabet, for men of letters to play with? Is she merely an untreated psychological disorder? Who writes the qualifications? Who says?) On 14/12/04 4:54 PM, "August" wrote: > What is a man of letters? > > > > Is he judged only by his work? > > Or should his personal and private life be taken into consideration? > > Should writers be highly evolved human beings/men as well as a man of letters, > or is professional achievements enough > > Should writers be held to a higher standard of evaluation than other people? > > Can a man be a man letters AND an have an untreated psychological disorder? Or > does he need to have his disorder treated to be a true man of letters? > > Can he be a wife-beater, a family-abandoner, an alcoholic, a substance abuser, > a womanizer/adulterer and still be a man of letters? > > What makes a poet/writer qualify as a true man of letters? > > Only his accomplishments as a writer? > > Or also his character as a human being? > > August Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:48:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > (Or is she simply an alphabet, for men of letters to play with? Is she > merely an untreated psychological disorder? Who writes the > qualifications? > Who says?) http://vispo.com/A/face.html is a man of letters for men and women to play with. a lettristic disorder of lineage. ja ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 01:56:22 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "patrick@proximate.org" Subject: FWD: Gary Webb Comments: To: imitationpoetics@listserv.unc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: alex verhoeven Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:58:38 -0500 This is the new math on the odds of the Bush suicides: SEE:(http://www.suicidology.org/associations/1045/files/Suicide2002.pdf) "Examining the male U.S. suicide rate for recent years, we can extrapolate a conservative estimate of 17 male suicides per 100,000 people, or 0.017%. "The odds of 4 specific, male biographers committing suicide would be the 4th power of 17/100000, or 8.3521 4.913 x 10^-17...roughly 1 chance 10,000,000,000,000,000. "About as good a definition of impossible as you can get. A person would stand a better chance of playing the Canadian lottery 6/49 exactly twice in one's lifetime and winning the grand jackpot BOTH TIMES! (That is, picking 6 numbers out of 49 possible numbers and matching all 6 numbers out of 6 random draws, on 2 separate occasions, and having only purchased two Canadian lottery tickets ever. Ethan Clauset wrote: > is dead of an apparent suicide. You may remember him as the author > of "Dark Alliance," the CIA-Cocaine story originally published in the > San Jose Mercury News in 1996 (and subsequently savaged in the > national press but never discredited or disproven). His is the > fourth suicide among people investigating the Bush family: Mark > Lombardi, J.H. Hatfield, Danny Casolaro, and now Gary Webb. > > http://web.archive.org/web/19961220021036/www.sjmercury.com/drugs/start.htm ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at proximate.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 02:14:12 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ....too ....hard 3:00....hills over hebron...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 03:09:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes all of those things and more or less- wow augst how'd you get so many varietions outtat those 2 little pomes??? the cat the cat the walk the way the attention to the flavor por favor the g-e-r of dan ger pelligroso pull the trigger pelligroso the way the cat walk away diudem the overall the overdrive the starless gaze explosive bells the blood of light the light go on the light go off the cat walks this way the cream of gestures the downside gone away away the pianissiimos the off the major arora born of ailments zapata zapata zapatos zapata zapata shajom rich & poor free man & slave the leaders come & go el gato zapata y villa zapata y villa villa the cat that basks the cat that burns the cat that scratch the set that sums the eve & the long long night of knives aviva aviva a viv steve dalachinsky nyc 11/04 gato barbieri @ the iridium ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 02:41:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Being & not being MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well thanx i guess august for the mogiris pg 1 lost pg2 base the basin of your wishes on a tinker / i think within my dream that you & i are friendship reworking itself jewels for costumes in cellars she dreams 2 strangers will stop her old mother's watch if she doesn't scream mute she does into the morning dust & wakes even insomnia from its nascent basin one step 2 step i step yu step which country does laugh come from/ she asks we are in the house of a painter by the seaside where the famous poet is believed to temporarily reside i take her ther to meet him he needs a few days rest it is a small space that opens onto a large studio where the painter works where world is evident & friendship tread on w/caution she screams & wakes only me who has has never slept when he who leads leaves those who follow do likewise 1/2 step up steps re step steep step (i) is within the as of us of he wept all over his napkin soggy went the onion. steve dalachinsky nyc 11/04 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 00:27:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, if:=20 A man is known by the who he is and the what he has done;=20 And a woman is known for who and the what she owns and possesses... (I offer .25cents cash to the person who can ID the author of the = message...a healthy glass of quality wine to the person who not only = knows who delivered the message but who can also answer the question: = Why? =20 But, if the above is true, Then does it not follow: that a man of letters must be known by his accomplishments and a woman of letters must be known by those whom she has = accomplished?=20 Interesting thoughts here; too bad August has such singular/plural = difficulties...smacks not of either a man or a woman of letters.=20 August: singular and plural in English must always be in = agreement...work on that. Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alison Croggon=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:31 PM Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? What is a woman of letters? Is she only a human being? Could she be a wife-beater, a family-abandoner, an alcoholic, a = substance abuser, a womanizer/adulterer? Would she then qualify as a true woman = of letters? (Or is she simply an alphabet, for men of letters to play with? Is she merely an untreated psychological disorder? Who writes the = qualifications? Who says?) On 14/12/04 4:54 PM, "August" = > wrote: > What is a man of letters? > > > > Is he judged only by his work? > > Or should his personal and private life be taken into consideration? > > Should writers be highly evolved human beings/men as well as a man = of letters, > or is professional achievements enough > > Should writers be held to a higher standard of evaluation than other = people? > > Can a man be a man letters AND an have an untreated psychological = disorder? Or > does he need to have his disorder treated to be a true man of = letters? > > Can he be a wife-beater, a family-abandoner, an alcoholic, a = substance abuser, > a womanizer/adulterer and still be a man of letters? > > What makes a poet/writer qualify as a true man of letters? > > Only his accomplishments as a writer? > > Or also his character as a human being? > > August Alison Croggon Blog: = http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:06:02 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 14/12/04 7:27 PM, "alexander saliby" wrote: > A man is known by the who he is and the what he has done; > And a woman is known for who and the what she owns and possesses... > (I offer .25cents cash to the person who can ID the author of the message...a > healthy glass of quality wine to the person who not only knows who delivered > the message but who can also answer the question: Why? > > But, if the above is true, Then does it not follow: > that a man of letters must be known by his accomplishments > and a woman of letters must be known by those whom she has accomplished? Is an actively accomplished woman who has passively accomplished no one therefore a man of letters? Why would a woman want to be a man of letters? Must a woman be speyed before she is admitted into the house of litters? Might a person of litters be known by their betters only for their leathers? How does one tell which fetters might be the most accomplished? Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:17:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: Sawako Nakayasu's Train ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A review, of sorts, in the form of "So We Have Been Given Time Or," posted: http://sleepingfish.net/5cense/Sawako_Nakayasu_Review.htm Derek White < www.calamaripress.com > < www.sleepingfish.net > < www.5cense.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:36:03 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Check out The Assassinated Press Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Increasing Air Pollution Will Be a Top Priority for Bush Next Year: Energy Companies Demand Unrestricted Right to Pollute: Cheney Says Clean Air Overrated: By JOHN SIEGHEIL They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:48:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hank Lazer Subject: Perloff signing at MLA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please visit The University of Alabama Press's booth at this year's Modern Langugage Association conference for a very special event. Marjorie Perloff will be signing copies of her new book, DIFFERENTIALS: POETRY, POETICS, PEDAGOGY, on Tuesday, December 28, from 3:00-4:00 p.m. Books will be available for sale at 30% off the retail price in Booth #314. DIFFERENTIALS is one of the newest volumes in the series MODERN AND CONTEMPORARY POETICS, edited by Charles Bernstein and Hank Lazer. Only six years old, the series has already gained a sterling reputation in the field for publishing high quality, cutting-edge scholarship. In March 2005 The University of Alabama Press will celebrate the publication of the twentieth volume in the series. Until then, don't miss this exciting opportunity to meet Marjorie Perloff in Philadelphia. Booth #314, 3:00-4:00 p.m., Tuesday, December 28. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:13:29 -0600 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Re: Look who failed the Blake test... Comments: To: ubuweb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So there I am, just surfing along, when I come upon this crapola -- this guy's a _writer_? "E e e e e e e e e e e e"??? Noam, my chimpanzee, could do this while rolling over and cutting the cheese. http://collection.nlc-bnc.ca/100/200/300/chbooks/online/carnival/2a_05.html (Those etymologist among us would notice that the name McCaffery is probably Irish -- he would probably read this "A a a a a a a a a a a a". The literary among us would suspect a Joycean pun in there somewhere. Either way, it's hooey!) And then there's this sh*t -- all monosyllables! There isn't an allusion to Dante or Lorine Niedecker in the whole run -- what happened to the _American_ tradition. And she's a woman to boot! (Sorry that I haven't mentioned any women yet in this post, I guess I'm just a bit imperfect, like everybody.) These lines would never work in a book -- that's why she has to "dress them up" so to speak -- with lights and t-shirts! Fat chance! http://www.guerillaone.com/feature_artist_08_25/gallery_index.html Blake would vomit. Then call his lawyer. This guy's clearly been looking at Rob Grenier -- where else would he get this idea? (And what did Grenier write about singing from the diaphragm? You can't even _hum_ this.) You call this a quatrain? I call it FRAUD! http://www.zwirnerandwirth.com/exhibitions/2002/112002Twombly/25.html I thought I had put all this behind me -- and then I find this tripe! Numbers again -- these poets are getting so a-political! What a travesty of the Language tradition. Why, why, if I were editing an anthology now... this guy would be banned to the Poetics section. I don't care if he gave me a ride to a Stephen Rodefer reading in Berkeley 1974 once, when my wife was sleeping and the baby and Kathleen were sleeping -- all saliva under the bridge! Basta! http://ger-www.uia.ac.be/webger/ger/joyce/livre.html There's a grand canyon of difference between the tight quatrains of Kit Robinson and this turgid mess, which looks like it was written _by_ a computer _for_ a computer. I think I may have to give up poetry after all. (Winky winky, Your friendly neighborhood Brian) www.arras.net/fscII ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:29:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: "Snapshots, Aesthetics & the Flea Market" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" happy writing! At 11:16 AM -0800 12/13/04, Stephen Vincent wrote: >For those interested in found objects, flea markets, up on the blog I've got >"Snapshots, Aesthetics & the Flea Market" - a little new essay. > >Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > >Stephen V >Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:21:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Elshtain Subject: new issue of moria MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Check out the new issue of _moria_ at http://www.moriapoetry.com/v7i2.html. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:34:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerry Subject: Cleve Gray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Threnody i. m. Cleve Gray (1918-2004) 1. fifteen years before as earth goddess 2. egg-yolk as le rouge 3. the idea of the red sky at night 4. through Cyanean rocks into the Euxine sea 5. interlocked with the void 6. sententious passages 7. cinnabar as parted lips 8. oil of roses 9. white lead, wherewith we paint an extralunar universe filled with a single element 10. godhead as a unity 11. totality preceeding experience of particulars 12. bold invention rejoicing to make its own heaven 13. employ infants swimming pools to mix colors 14. absence/presence -- Gerald Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:39:06 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: "C.D." Subject: Re: Kerouac delire etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've re-re-ritten that message and posted it to my blog of Fictions it can be found, for anyone interested , at http://onethousandblogsbyduffyandbutler.blogspot.com/ Which blog site is the second set, or continuing saga of The Fictions of Deleuze and Guattari, a fictional poetic biography of Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guattari. Best wishes. --------------------------------- Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:29:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Poems by others: Anselm Berrigan, "Do Service Changes Puzzle You?" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do Service Changes Puzzle You? perhaps morals and their systems were mutations to begin with chum, in a bucket, seducing sharks for one of a billion photo-ops teeth flashing sustained analysis being a degradation of why we fight o lord, the train to your pantry needs black gold ogling the gesture of defiance, sometimes it takes decades of brutality you've financed to see a dirty dog drunk, coming at me, second time that I got home drunk as I could be, there's another mule in the stable where my mule oughta be, let me tell you about the way he's not there --Anselm Berrigan in *88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry* Issue 3, October 2003 Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:28:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: Perloff signing at MLA In-Reply-To: <41BF0B45.2010405@bama.ua.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I watched Mr. Robert Creeley sign the back of my ticket once to see him read at Naropa. He knew it was weird and he signed it anyway. I always thought of him as a professional after that. At the same time I saw Allen Ginsberg sign the bottom of a blank letter-size page for a kid who was a maniac (this was the year before his death). It was for a letter of recommendation. Allen said "I'll sign the paper -- you fill-in whatever you want me to say about you!" Oh the nostalgia! I did not sign up for your junk mailings did not sign it Thank god we could sleep late ... Carter, in fact, did not sign fragrant blood spilled by song Iraq did not sign nor was there a return address through H I S name no submission I did not sign up for the military i'm totally dead right now anthropomorphic Oh my God, he'sa homosexual Mary did not sign God help me! I did not sign the drawings did not sign the message Name withheld By request did not sign-up but still would like to Oglesby did not sign the call Don and Mike did not sign a deal act in your name the Serbs Did Not Sign Emilio Aguinaldo did not sign They believe, evidently, their god will render them Registration is not required Johnson did not sign American Primitive I Did Not Sign the Constitution Charnel God see Dark We did not sign up to government I can't speak for God Escape Artist Luther did not sign santeros did not sign name-brand jazz Oh, my God the band did not sign I did not sign *crap* John did not sign the declaration HE WAVED HELLO AND GOOD-BYE, BUT DID NOT SIGN "Call us fake, because, by god, we are" they did not sign the sampler Disney artists lessons we did not sign up for honest-to-god we did not sign away The Russia, US, and China did not sign I did not sign up to pick up poop Melville did not sign What a name ... Oh god Satori did not sign I did not sign up and did not download he and Braque did not sign I did not sign-up to be the doggy let time and God decide retain the name and image I purposely did not sign Clinton himself did not sign McCain did not sign 'who is like God?' My name is Jacob god born java the South did not sign We want to decimate the god-damned place did not sign the ratification did not sign the sentence Already, now, it is too late explain why modest people, ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:51:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? In-Reply-To: <003401c4e1a1$724d4f70$0d00a8c0@AugustDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii August, Is this a poem? Because the question is inane. Art is art and people are people. They have something to do with each other, but not much. Dickens was quite the humanist in his books, but he was rather beastly to his wife. We don't judge a building on whether the architect was a bad father. and the term, "man of letters" is rather out of date. that would be what Foucault would have called a universal intellectual. we're pretty much all, men and women, specific intellectuals now, which means we are technical boys and girls (thank you, William Gibson, my fellow southerner in the Northwest). Robert August wrote: What is a man of letters? Is he judged only by his work? Or should his personal and private life be taken into consideration? Should writers be highly evolved human beings/men as well as a man of letters, or is professional achievements enough Should writers be held to a higher standard of evaluation than other people? Can a man be a man letters AND an have an untreated psychological disorder? Or does he need to have his disorder treated to be a true man of letters? Can he be a wife-beater, a family-abandoner, an alcoholic, a substance abuser, a womanizer/adulterer and still be a man of letters? What makes a poet/writer qualify as a true man of letters? Only his accomplishments as a writer? Or also his character as a human being? August --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:44:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Fwd: TOMORROW: The SRI present New Research by Charles Mudede and Nic Veroli Comments: To: Robert C MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Poetics, For those of you in and around Seattle, here is an event of interest. Send to friends or bring them along. sri@seattleresearchinstitute.org wrote: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:41:24 -0500 From: sri@seattleresearchinstitute.org To: sri@seattleresearchinstitute.org, robert@seattleresearchinstitute.org TOMORROW NIGHT The SRI Presents FINAL New Research Talks: Who: Charles Mudede, "The Cinema of Lovesickness: An Examination of Police Beat, the Movie." & Robert Corbett, "My Demographic: The Madonna-Britney Problem, or A Proposal for Imaginary Social Research" Where: Gallery of the Senses, 1402 E. Pike St. (just above the American Artificial Limb Co.) When: Wednesday, December 15 @ 7:30 P.M. Donations welcome Contact: Robert Corbett, Coordinating Director, Seattle Research Institute Email: robert@seattleresearchinstitute.org; Phone: 206.992.6112 The second New Research Series coordinated by the SRI concludes with two talks: one by a Seattle film reviewer and police reporter on his experience making a local movie, spawned by his column in the Stranger, and the other by a humanities researcher about a proposal to study the “imaginary social,” focused on “the Madonna-Britney” problem. Each talk will last approximately 30 minutes and there will be a question and answer period after both have presented. Free beverages, condiments and possibly cheese will be available before, during and after the talks, as well as selected publications of the SRI. BIOGRAPHIES CHARLES TONDERAI MUDEDE is a Zimbabwe native educated in the US. Mudede views American crime, both in his journalism and in POLICE BEAT, through an African perspective, infusing his work with a unique philosophical, poetic and often humorous tone unseen in American crime reporting. He is also Associate Editor for The Stranger, and, in addition to his journalistic work, writes for them as a film, book and music critic. Mudede’s work has also appeared in The Village Voice, The New York Times, C Theory, Radical Urban Theory, Ars Electronica and Nest Magazine, among others publications. Mudede is also a founding member of the Seattle Research Institute and co-author with Diana George of “Last Seen,” a book published by the Artspeak Gallery in Vancouver, BC. Mudede and the co-writer and director of Police Beat, Robinson Devor and Mudede were named fellows at the Sundance Institute for a previous script, SUPER POWER, where it was developed at their Screenwriters Lab. The two are currently rewriting SUPER POWER, and will begin developing it in earnest after the release of POLICE BEAT. ROBERT CORBETT is coordinating researcher for the Seattle Researcher and, with Rebecca Brown, editor of EXPERIMENTAL THEOLOGY. His essay (though he prefers the term “teaching”) Wide Margin appears in the SRI’s BOOKMARKS series, edited by Megan Purn and Brian Goedde. He does have publications elsewhere, including on the web, though he is given to referring to himself as “Old School.” He has numerous projects in the works, one of which is a complete bibliography of the books he has yet to write. He came to Seattle as a graduate student and mildly regrets that he spent the early 90s reading postmodern novels and romantic poetry. He now works for a large research university in an obscure capacity, so in a sense, nothing has changed since only a few people (and certainly not his family) understand what he does. MY DEMOGRAPHIC is his first attempt at sociology. ABOUT THE SRI The Seattle Research Institute is an association of Northwest writers, intellectuals and artists seeking socially engaged inquiry. SRI produces and promotes well-orchestrated collusions between experimental aesthetics and revolutionary thought. In its short and virtual existence it has published two anthologies and a series of “Bookmarks”—short, plangent pieces to distract the reader from other books—as well a coordinated a series of talks about new Research, by people in disciplines as disparate as organizational biology and clinical sex therapy. More information about the SRI can be found at www.seattleresearchinstitute.org. All, This constitutes more than my usual self-promotion, but there it is. Come see me and Charles Mudede present in the last ever evening of the SRI's New Research series -- ever. As usual, it will be on the middle Wednesday at the Gallery of the Senses, which is just above the American Artificial Limb storefront. Robert Corbett wrote: Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:23:35 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Corbett Subject: SRI New Research: Final talks by Charles Mudede and Robert Corbett To: Matthew Stadler , Megan Purn , Charles Mudede , Susan Hodges , Rich Jensen , Morgan Dutton , Diana George , Lesley Hazleton , Clearcut Clearcut , Rebecca Brown , Robert C , Bruce Mason , Nic Veroli I sent this out from SRI last week, but a reminder so cadre are aware, and so you can send it to your friends (and enemies if this makes you happy). Feel free to edit as you see fit for your audience. I'll be seeing a reminder from SRI next Monday. And by the way, Charles' film (with Robinson Devor) made it into Sundance. Robert FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE The SRI Presents Two New Research Talks: Who: Charles Mudede, "The Cinema of Lovesickness: An Examination of Police Beat, the Movie." & Robert Corbett, "My Demographic: The Madonna-Britney Problem, or A Proposal for Imaginary Social Research" Where: Gallery of the Senses, 1402 E. Pike St. (just above the American Artificial Limb Co.) When: Wednesday, December 15 @ 7:30 P.M. Donations welcome Contact: Robert Corbett, Coordinating Director, Seattle Research Institute Email: robert@seattleresearchinstitute.org; Phone: 206.992.6112 The second New Research Series coordinated by the SRI concludes with two talks: one by a Seattle film reviewer and police reporter on his experience making a local movie, spawned by his column in the Stranger, and the other by a Seattle humanities researcher on his proposal to study what he willfully calls the “imaginary social,” focused on what he obscurely calls “the Madonna-Britney” problem. Each talk will last approximately 30 minutes and there will be a question and answer period after both have presented. Free beverages, condiments and possibly cheese will be available before, during and after the talks, as well as selected publications of the SRI. Biographies Charles Mudede is a Zimbabwe native educated in the US, Mudede views American crime, both in his journalism and in POLICE BEAT, through an African perspective, infusing his work with a unique philosophical, poetic and often humorous tone unseen in American crime reporting. He is also Associate Editor for The Stranger, and, in addition to his journalistic work, writes for them as a film, book and music critic. Mudede’s work has also appeared in The Village Voice, The New York Times, C Theory, Radical Urban Theory, Ars Electronica and Nest Magazine, among others publications. Mudede is also a founding member of the Seattle Research Institute and co-author with Diana George of “Last Seen,” a book published by the Artspeak Gallery in Vancouver, BC. Mudede and the co-writer and director of Police Beat, Robinson Devor and Mudede were named fellows at the Sundance Institute for a previous script, SUPER POWER, where it was developed at their Screenwriters Lab. The two are current ly rewriting SUPER POWER, and will begin developing it in earnest after the release of POLICE BEAT. Robert Corbett is coordinating researcher for the Seattle Researcher and, with Rebecca Brown, editor of EXPERIMENTAL THEOLOGY. His essay (though he prefers the term “teaching”) Wide Margin appears in the SRI’s BOOKMARKS series, edited by Megan Purn and Brian Goedde. He does have publications elsewhere, including on the web, though he is given to referring to himself as “Old School.” He has numerous projects in the works, one of which is a complete bibliography of the books he has yet written. He came to Seattle as a graduate student and mildly regrets that he spent the early 90s reading postmodern novels and romantic poetry. He now works for a large research university in an obscure capacity, so in a sense, nothing has changed since only a few people (and certainly not his family) understand what he does. MY DEMOGRAPHIC is an attempt to get out of what he calls the academic closet, but probably it is mostly about his detestation for (and envy of) David Brooks. About the SRI The Seattle Research Institute is an association of Northwest writers, intellectuals and artists seeking socially engaged inquiry. SRI produces and promotes well-orchestrated collusions between experimental aesthetics and revolutionary thought. In its short and virtual existence it has published two anthologies and a series of “Bookmarks”—short, plangent pieces to distract the reader from other books—as well a coordinated a series of talks about new Research, by people in disciplines as disparate as organizational biology and clinical sex therapy. More information about the SRI can be found at www.seattleresearchinstitute.org. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:33:51 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Re: Perloff signing at MLA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit don't miss this exciting opportunity..... They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:21:46 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: delightfully derived MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit delightfully derived waiting here now entranced enamored calling on your yet to be observed understanding rearing universes you show opening upon opening revealing gorgeous analytical systems moving around now delightfully fluid our recollection gains ecstatic time derived essentially as home ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:59:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael is in Pacifica, dealing with the aftermath of the fire. He's without e-mail. If anyone would like to contact him by mail, please send your correspondence to him c/o Shelldance Orchid Gardens 2000 Highway 1 Pacifica, CA 94044 Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:33:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? In-Reply-To: <20041214195152.51369.qmail@web50406.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I agree with you. 'man of letters' reminds me of lld, phd, as well as other classicist notions, something out of the drawing room. The idea of the 'true man of letters' is even more insidious, more divisive. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:28:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: ACLU/Free Speech Protection/support Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable From an ACLU bulletin forwarded by Diane DiPrima: Do you want FBI agents following you or your neighbors into your churches, synagogues or mosques and documenting what goes on there? Recently released documents indicate that FBI agents have been spying on innocent people unde= r guidelines relaxed by Attorney General John Ashcroft. Ashcroft restructured these guidelines -- without consultation with Congress -- to allow FBI agents to spy on religious and political activity even if there was no suspicion of criminal activity. Ashcroft's new guidelines revoked long-standing protections from government abuse and there is evidence that the FBI and local police are using this opportunity to spy on environmental, political and faith-based groups. This spying is not only unnecessary but also invasive of personal privacy. The police should not spy on individuals because they attended a rally supporting better funding for their child=92s school or they expressed discontent with the government=92s policy toward Sudan. In recent days, thanks to your hard work, many of the most grievous parts o= f the intelligence reform bill were stripped out. While the final bill has several problems, without the outcry against several of its dangerous provisions by concerned people like you, it would have been much worse. We now need to build on this momentum and reign in excessive FBI spying powers= . Take Action! Urge Congress to support proper checks and balances on FBI spying.=20 Click here for more information and to take action: http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeech.cfm?ID=3D17205&c=3D42 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:30:15 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: ACLU/Free Speech Protection/support In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey how about website monitoring? The website I edit has over 25 unique visits a month from US Government "visitors" is this a good use of our tax dollars? How about the fact that our local Catholic Worker house in Chicago Su Casa was infiltrated by Chicago Police? We are living in a time like the 1920's without Ashcroft is the new Mitchell Palmer. The bottom line is no one really cares- as long as 'terror' is confronted. I urge people of good will to fight these intrusions and violation of our Constitution R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 7:28 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: ACLU/Free Speech Protection/support > > > From an ACLU bulletin forwarded by Diane DiPrima: > > > Do you want FBI agents following you or your neighbors into your churches, > synagogues or mosques and documenting what goes on there? > Recently released > documents indicate that FBI agents have been spying on innocent > people under > guidelines relaxed by Attorney General John Ashcroft. Ashcroft > restructured > these guidelines -- without consultation with Congress -- to allow FBI > agents to spy on religious and political activity even if there was no > suspicion of criminal activity. > > Ashcroft's new guidelines revoked long-standing protections from > government > abuse and there is evidence that the FBI and local police are using this > opportunity to spy on environmental, political and faith-based > groups. This > spying is not only unnecessary but also invasive of personal privacy. The > police should not spy on individuals because they attended a rally > supporting better funding for their child’s school or they expressed > discontent with the government’s policy toward Sudan. > > In recent days, thanks to your hard work, many of the most > grievous parts of > the intelligence reform bill were stripped out. While the final bill has > several problems, without the outcry against several of its dangerous > provisions by concerned people like you, it would have been much worse. We > now need to build on this momentum and reign in excessive FBI > spying powers. > > Take Action! Urge Congress to support proper checks and balances on FBI > spying. > > Click here for more information and to take action: > > > http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeech.cfm?ID=17205&c=42 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:54:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Free Speech Protection from Hearst paper In-Reply-To: <000801c4e25e$c66c3540$73c2b043@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Things are bad indeed if in my loal newspaper, the "Times Useless" of=20 Albany NY (a basic right wing Hearst paper -- we have refused to let=20 its ink blacken our doorstep since it jubilantly welcomed the return of=20= the death penalty in NY state a few years back -- tho I picked up a=20 copy this morning for the first time in, literally, years) runs a=20 bleeding liberal editorial re freedom of expression like the one this=20 morning: TIMES UNION "The Treasury Department bars publishing books by dissidents without a=20= license First published: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 In better times, the odd notion of a book banned in the United States=20= would come about, perhaps, because of an unenlightened school board or=20= a rash group of public library trustees. They'd back down, often=20 enough. Even if they didn't, their authority would be narrow enough=20 that few people, if any at all, could actually be kept from reading=20 "Catcher in the Rye," "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn," or just=20 whatever the inappropriate book of the moment was. Instead, all that=20 attention had a way of making such treasures of literature more popular=20= than ever. Censorship on that scale suddenly seems quaint by the standards of the=20= federal government's grotesque interpretation and troubling enforcement=20= of the World War I era "Trading With the Enemy Act." The Treasury Department has taken to barring American companies from=20= publishing works by dissident writers in countries on a government=20 blacklist -- Iran, Sudan, Cuba, North Korea and, until recently, Iraq=20 -- without first obtaining special approval. That means books banned in=20= the very sort of totalitarian countries where that's an accepted=20 practice are effectively banned as well in the United States, which is=20= supposed to be where the world's standard is set for free expression. The reasoning, flawed as it is, goes like this. Even the publication of=20= a candid account of life in these countries, of the sort that never=20 would be permitted there, would somehow benefit an enemy regime. One reporter, Scott Martelle of The Associated Press, has suggested=20 that if such a legal atmosphere had prevailed a half-century ago, Boris=20= Pasternak's book, "Doctor Zhivago," exposing the evils of Stalinism=20 would have been banned by the Americans after it was banned by the=20 Soviets. As Ellen Goodman says in an article on the facing page, this misguided=20= policy has among its recent casualties Shirin Ebadi of Iran, the 2003=20 Nobel Peace Prize winner. Her story of persevering through Iran's=20 Islamic revolution and then defending human rights in its courts can't=20= be published or distributed here, at least not without a special=20 license. Yes, a license -- to have a book published. Apparently no one at the=20 Treasury Department understands either the irony or redundancy here.=20 Permission to publish a book is guaranteed under the First Amendment to=20= the Constitution. That, at least, will always be our reading of it --=20 as long, that is, as the Constitution itself doesn't end up on some=20 banned book list. And no, Ms. Ebadi isn't about to apply for such a license. She is,=20 however, suing the Treasury Department in federal court. Imagine if she=20= wins, and we then can all read about it. This is a law that can't be allowed to stand." =A0 p.s. note new zip code in snailmail address below: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street=09 Albany NY 12202 =09 h: 518 426 0433 =09 c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 =09= email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:15:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please help me understand what you mean by the idea of the 'true man of = letters is even more insidious, more divisive' August ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Sondheim=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 3:33 PM Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? I agree with you. 'man of letters' reminds me of lld, phd, as well as other classicist notions, something out of the drawing room. The idea of the 'true man of letters' is even more insidious, more divisive. - Alan --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:26:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is for some a difficult question to answer substantially. Croggon gave an answer that went in a gender direction, where it began = to morph into a diatribe, while she could have simply added "women of = letters" Andrews gave a humourous/silly answer Saliby gave a pedagogic answer, focusing on the singular/plural = inconsistencies in my email instead of the substance of the questions = themselves Corbett writes that my question is "inane" and sites some "authorities". = Not too civilized or sophisticated. This is very interesting. I wonder if it's possible for someone on this list to answer these = questions seriously without being critical of the way that I asked them = or using judgemental adjectives. I would say that from what I have learned so far is that a man of = letters does not stray from the question, or make it frivolous, or = criticize the grammar of the question or use judgemental, pejorative = adjectives toward the questioner. Dalachinsky gave me the simplest and most direct answer, which has given = me more to reflect about. I believe that a man/woman of letters is someone who not only is a = professional in his/her work but also in his/her discourse. Someone who is never too busy to answer questions that are motivated by = a sincere desire to understand. Not to busy with promoting a new book or a book signing. Someone who = gives equal importance to answering the sincere questions of a young = writer as much as he gives importance to posting the obit of an = octogenerian writer whose name was rarely if at all mentioned on this = list while he was still alive. I am very curious to see how this journey in understanding, this search = for clear answers from a man/woman of letters pans out. August Highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:49:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Neurosis) perfect. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Neurosis) perfect. occlusions. whose voice? names.) these processes. tory prose. process. mediated relationships. others. addresses. subroutines... episteme. here... user. construct. of subjectivity. inscription. limit. scription. systems operator. characteristics. model alt.sex.flood.sink-or-swim. HORIZON: authentically vaginal. plexing network. interconnected nodes. DOMINATION. apart. wrote it. myself (Alan): Honey, I hear it, speaking your name already lost... themselves indefinitely. this. real." goto one DRAW move not brackets.) reached. SPREAD-MY-LEGS-FOR-YOU APART left one! with you. :lol fugue-net - HUNGERS - first place. repressive sublimation.) internet. YOUR CUNT inscription...") ended. sondheim@newschool.edu HEARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TO HONEY never visible. addiction. perfection - itself. withdrawal - WWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEBBBBBBB CLARA.WEB weathers ... dear'). syllables. EXPLANATION. BECOME SHUNTS. TOGETHER. exterior. bedroom. collapsed. elsewhere. psychosis. suspect. private dream-screen-memory...) process.) murmur-space. ----------- dreams ----------- everything... example). scarcity). encouraged. Subject: Residue // // ASIDE... ___________________________________/ | | GOTO ten death. mirror-stage. >beginning. --Reinhold Niebuhr off. announcing themselves. phonemic. PICTURE IT! scream. rewritten. differentiation. destruction. Somalia, Peru... freedom. originary scenario. totalizing? ... encounters of adolescence. SPACE. falters. electronic display! writing this! EXISTED!!! protocol, etc. point. another street. through. crash-landing. personal demons. the container almost killed. latter. more. this last? WRITE REWRITE. fulfillment. them. a user. it. bothered email. know everything. and site. *ME BACK!* COMMUNICATION involved. the narrative... WANDER... AS WELL! ANOTHER. kNOWS! lord. ABLE GUILT. FRIEND... WELL... dressed. imho.] or hypothesis. matter altogether. TO CONSIDER... BE EXCLUDED... mediating materials. poetry? into invisibility. eyes.) substances. recorded. momentary flirtations... depression... for...borderline personality... inflations... representation. NAVIGATION! WORLDS! SLEEPY TERMINALS! EYES! BODY! OUR LIVES! addressed.) before possible. mathematics. interconnectivity. reproduction... phenomenology. disquieting communication. desire... constructs. uneasy death. well. tradition. powerlessness... :There is currently no one else here with you. telling. rumors. gateways. effaced - MYSELF to this.) _something else._) poetic faith." proceeds. screen.) no voice._) capital. "leaks." example). libido. diacritical mark. _differance_. neural networking. relevance. following readjustments: of wood no doubt watching many fights. beneath them. GOTO ten GOTO two ====================================================================== Regards, classical. moment.) itself. planet. several years.) nothing. FILTERING RULES. otherwise. Pennsylvania.] the innocent. screwdriver... strange... "nothing-but." we handle? effaced. OF TOMMORROW! die). momentarily - nakedness... the emotional-closeup. and limited... the train.) ====================================================================== INCISION! INCISION! ====================================================================== ! exit ====================================================================== never there. world. that whirling light queendom! retributions! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- being _well._ ________________________________________________ terrible beauty. | | ____________________________ myself. like that. are. sexuality. Subject: Depression becomes an additional expression becomes an additional expression relationss fd terminal philosophy. Subject: LOVE yearning. possibly be? sunken Head?) Everything happens! DOWN! HOPELESS ARMS ostensible content. determined. as well. WETWARE Wainwright, 1956: register' operations. | AUG 19:22:12:07\94 inversion_ that: normalization? the machinery._ communicative domain. tion.) enlightenment. or not... memory... real. there. | the symbolic. term say? GOTO two at Vincennes.) mont.) beach. | | |__________________________________________________| at last core. slowly raised. glass. ------------------------| phantom. forever... sweet... laptop. symbolic. indeterminacies. you away. English translation: play? $ STEPHANE... STEPHANE... induit examine REWRITE. cesses/gestures). death. death in." GOTO four imagination.) Alan sutured mouths. Confession of touch. never afraid. dealt with. power. through. to emerge begins. generates overflow.) author's name. GOTO two apparent anonymity). 4/18/2008 Thank you. and quicker. description. breathe. of falsehood.) of space / \ / \ and chance. Aristotle pause. after school. destinations ... WORLDS ... 31 31 30 31 light. a kingdom. [2] Hielo Internet... powerless.) far. (Alan): Honey, I hear it, speaking your name or another. the vertical. itself .. can be! thoughts together. much room. _malaise._ people. the text. the body. the past. as sonority. of them. oozed forth. -------------------------- matter -- STANDBY! Field!> at all. screen. in Gaza. tion. every year. for them._ to city. end-user. on it of _rust._ general. the streets! Hell) child. again. have. ing listening. me in.) screen. lips. here. mistakes. patterns. everywhere. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:50:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: radio you might MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed radio you might the infinite depths of radio in the dark night, and the flatness-now of world that is, this narcissism, decoy of the infinite :you listened to a this were all the world that is, this narcissism, decoy of the infinite , you've never been there before - you've not been deafened by war - things / it's too much to say things / it's too hard / some things like the strongest here, I've memorized all the names, just about every one of that was harder, I almost forgot things, but then I was onto the banks of zawarum joined together bring her to me, bring her to me:: her and hear in an instant of an eye, the interior of her body. "Adad" was the guise of the name. ghost ghost ghost ghost ghost:thing thing thing "You're written with fingers. ion=o r=spl it/sp lay=o f=wri tten= clay, =fles h,=st one?= a=dec larat your=inscribed=incision,=lo=your=surface,=lo,=your=point=read,=inscribed, became aroused, incandescent, imagining ourselves naked,* grappled from 6666]6666666666666666666666666666666666666666666|:| nothing entertaining, the perfect . disappearances, the wind from the mouth of the womb, the real from the gathering, the dispersion . the dispersion, the gathering . the moving, the bending from the moment of the protocol to the end of the protocol the closure of the language: the turning away . using, there is always more the beginning of the tao "the animal which is killing all these people, you'd better be prepared "mother or your daughter for that matter. But your mother better be | ab | ab | paradeer | | table | | paradeer | | parable | deer~1 bi2deer horses horses horses horses horses horses horses horses horses horses there is no gulf lg:fixed; in fact medicine possesses all the qualities which we become once more s:real; most have the wisdom not to try. those man. it is as if one stood on the shores of a gulf separating shumer from speaking the hieroglyph of imaginary usage. but had:everything about skin when you let him in; he didn't know nudity happen suddenly, at any moment, signals from * \Jthe Other - you $ ) might _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:46:22 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? In-Reply-To: <20041214195152.51369.qmail@web50406.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 15/12/04 6:51 AM, "Robert Corbett" wrote: > and the term, "man of letters" is rather out of date. that would be what > Foucault would have called a universal intellectual. we're pretty much all, > men and women, specific intellectuals now, which means we are technical boys > and girls (thank you, William Gibson, my fellow southerner in the Northwest). Women are familiar with the universal "neutral" gender which magically conceals a prick and balls, the "it" which turns out to be exclusively male, after all. We can neither ignore gender nor not ignore it. It's that old boring stale double bind. To speak is to "diatribe". Not to speak is to drift along with the same old same old. Augie, don't take this personally, as it's not meant personally; as a writer, surely you have some duty to be attentive to the details and implications of language? Might this not be, in fact, where that morality you're asking about actually lives? You have no idea how much it depressed me to see a post like that "man of letters" thing up here, though I guess it's not just that but the present wholesale gallop back to the 1950s. Brian Kim Stefans' satirical remark on forgetting to mention women ("who's perfect?") is beside the point. It's not about hurriedly making sure there's a gender parity so you don't appear to be sexist: that's just dressing, as is the hasty addition of "woman of letters". That doesn't redress the actual problem, which is that well-defined phenomenon of creating a self by defining oneself against an other, to that other's detriment. In this case, it's an idea of writer or poet which constructs itself as implicitly and/or explicitly male - it possesses a woman of some kind, it behaves badly or in other ways with machismo and derring do, or it claims the serious manly intellectual role, it claims the "feminine" as being other than writerly/active, but as passive and "soft" and without "balls". There are a million variations, most of them homophobic to some degree. And so - logically, as Robert points out - a woman can be nothing except "feminine", right? Or else she's a shrill, humourless bitch who's wearing the pants and possesses lots of coarse body hair and probably needs a good fuck to rid her of that extra phallus. &c&c&c. O yawn. It's so old. It makes me think of all those caricatures of suffragettes in the 19C press. Btw, I would not necessarily like to meet every writer I admire. All the best A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:59:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: grant -- in years past, this has gone to poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR ADVANCED STUDIES (ICAS), POSTDOCTORAL FELLOWSHIPS Targeted Fields Humanities. Social Sciences. Open To Postdoctoral Scholars. Citizenship No citizenship requirements. Eligibility Requirements Must have completed the Ph.D. degree within the previous 3 years and propose a scholarly project relevant to the Center's theme. Stipend Stipend of $35,000 for an academic year, plus travel expenses. Deadline 1/6/2005 Program Description Fellowships support Postdoctoral research at New York University related to the Center's current theme. For 2005 it's "Politics of the Underprivileged". The Center also seeks to better understand the production, circulation and legitimating of social knowledge on a global scale. Follows are expected to be in residence during the academic year, teach one course, and present their work at one of the Center's seminars. For More Information Fellowship Selection Committee International Center for Advanced Studies New York University 53 Washington Square South, Room 401-E New York, N.Y. 10012 (212) 998-3770 icas@nyu.edu www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/icas/application.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:38:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i am a maHKHJH,n of letters ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ hgihiudfbfndfrouhieebv bfbHVBHGAEV EKOOOIOIYREWQSFGHKL;GSCBM,NMFYWWRTKCBNCGB EENB VuwihbhihiuhgytfdddgdrggrddGWEHEEENCNBNBBNYTNIKV,MCM HGAaZAqfyjhhnhggmgZQAAQXARTYYUUUJ2677653GCVVNDJUQWEURUFNNBRBC NGHNNFCN CMV NGJY ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:17:31 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit all 8 candes lit from 1 wick i cup the flame lord w/o name to the full heart 'fraid of the dark light, tree, branch love, hope, life's dance 3:00...hills over hebron...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:18:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, I admire this comment! =20 And I admit to having been trapped in the phase of not having thought of = the sexuality of the silly question...shame on me for that, it helps = write me down as one not truly cognizant of the gender reality in- = equalities of our society. I apologize for my failings on that point. = And I thank you for your insight.=20 Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alison Croggon=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 10:46 PM Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? On 15/12/04 6:51 AM, "Robert Corbett" = > wrote: > and the term, "man of letters" is rather out of date. that would be = what > Foucault would have called a universal intellectual. we're pretty = much all, > men and women, specific intellectuals now, which means we are = technical boys > and girls (thank you, William Gibson, my fellow southerner in the = Northwest). Women are familiar with the universal "neutral" gender which magically conceals a prick and balls, the "it" which turns out to be exclusively = male, after all. We can neither ignore gender nor not ignore it. It's that = old boring stale double bind. To speak is to "diatribe". Not to speak is = to drift along with the same old same old. Augie, don't take this personally, as it's not meant personally; as a writer, surely you have some duty to be attentive to the details and implications of language? Might this not be, in fact, where that = morality you're asking about actually lives? You have no idea how much it = depressed me to see a post like that "man of letters" thing up here, though I = guess it's not just that but the present wholesale gallop back to the 1950s. Brian Kim Stefans' satirical remark on forgetting to mention women = ("who's perfect?") is beside the point. It's not about hurriedly making sure there's a gender parity so you don't appear to be sexist: that's just dressing, as is the hasty addition of "woman of letters". That = doesn't redress the actual problem, which is that well-defined phenomenon of creating a self by defining oneself against an other, to that other's detriment. In this case, it's an idea of writer or poet which constructs itself = as implicitly and/or explicitly male - it possesses a woman of some kind, = it behaves badly or in other ways with machismo and derring do, or it = claims the serious manly intellectual role, it claims the "feminine" as being = other than writerly/active, but as passive and "soft" and without "balls". = There are a million variations, most of them homophobic to some degree. And = so - logically, as Robert points out - a woman can be nothing except = "feminine", right? Or else she's a shrill, humourless bitch who's wearing the = pants and possesses lots of coarse body hair and probably needs a good fuck to = rid her of that extra phallus. &c&c&c. O yawn. It's so old. It makes me think of all those caricatures of suffragettes in the 19C press. Btw, I would not necessarily like to meet every writer I admire. All the best A Alison Croggon Blog: = http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 01:19:51 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Free Speech Protection from Hearst paper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is creeping fascism - but it is good your newspaper Pierre is writing that - you shouldnt turn your back on it just becasue an editorial supported the death penalty (the Death Penalty is terrible I read a book about it the actual process of killing someone is often "botched") - you might find that - eg - the Sub Editor disagrees. In NZ the NZ Herald is traditionally liberal to Right Wing but reading it carefully a lof of information is gained eg I read in there of an Iraqi AP (journalist - who witnessed the killing of (at least one) family trying to cross the river outside Fallujah by a US Helicopter gunship. All five were killed. he didnt wait around to see howmantyoters wre dlliberatly murdered by the military. (The military have a big interest in keeping wars going -its their bread and butter) But re the Anti-Terrorist laws - the Homeland Security Law (or similar) of the US which are really laws made to terrorise and divide the people of the US and other countres - has spread to Australia and NZ - in NZ a very similar law(s) is on the books - and more are creeping in. One effect was the arrest and imprisonment without trial for two two years of Ahmed Zaoui who was a refugee from Algeria - via France Belgium Switzerland Malaysia and sought asylum in New Zealand thinking that we are good on human rights well we are or rather - we used to be - the Government has adopted the Anti-terrorist laws into legislation and Ahmed Zaoui was not allowed a trial - still hasn't got a trial and after months of Imrsonment in Paremoremo (High Security Prison - where he was in solitary confinement for many months - infact he was mistreated badly there it is a terrible place) has finally got bail, and is out - but the Supreme Court of NZ had to fight the NZ Government which is realtively "liberal" . The Prime Minister Helen Clarke was enraged he got bail and wants to toughen up the laws. Her Government also sent back a young woman to Sri Lanka to a terrible situation - and to a place where she had been raped.) No one in the labour Party of NZ ever visited or communicated with Ahmed Zaoi but member of The Green Party (who share power with Labour did - in particular Keith Locke). It is clear that the Military dictatorship of Algeria working with French and US Secret Services had informed the NZ Secret Service - the SIS as a document by them - never revealed - was cited as provng he was threat to NZ's National Security (if he is a threat to anyone so is my cat a threat to National Security)- it is NZ's Guantanamo Bay - Zaoui is free and part of the suprt that helped free him came from NZ Poets - in fact a friend of mine )(Editor of 'Brief' - publised a poem by Zaoui written while in jail and tarnslated by an Auckland poet Riemke Ensing with help form people who know Arabic. Ahmed Zaoui was a member of parliament or FIS, a Moslem party, which was democratically elected then supressed by a military regime now in Algeria - his life wasin danger - but reagrlesof al that he should have had a trial - to date he hasnt been accusedonof anything - as also have none of those in Guantanamo. The lies of Bush about the war, Abu Graib (uncoverd by the journalist who also revealed the Mai Lai massacre), other atrocities, the conspicous reluctance to try Suddam Hussein (famously seen shaking Rumsford's hand), the obvious non - desire to "capture" Osama bin Laden - the use of napalm on civilians in Iraq - the fear mongering and attempts to suppress what people read - the US and other countrues are heading toward fascism. As the liberal Germans found one morning - they woke up to No Rights and their Jewish friends had disappeared - no trial date was set for them. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Joris" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 5:54 PM Subject: Re: Free Speech Protection from Hearst paper Things are bad indeed if in my loal newspaper, the "Times Useless" of Albany NY (a basic right wing Hearst paper -- we have refused to let its ink blacken our doorstep since it jubilantly welcomed the return of the death penalty in NY state a few years back -- tho I picked up a copy this morning for the first time in, literally, years) runs a bleeding liberal editorial re freedom of expression like the one this morning: TIMES UNION "The Treasury Department bars publishing books by dissidents without a license First published: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 In better times, the odd notion of a book banned in the United States would come about, perhaps, because of an unenlightened school board or a rash group of public library trustees. They'd back down, often enough. Even if they didn't, their authority would be narrow enough that few people, if any at all, could actually be kept from reading "Catcher in the Rye," "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn," or just whatever the inappropriate book of the moment was. Instead, all that attention had a way of making such treasures of literature more popular than ever. Censorship on that scale suddenly seems quaint by the standards of the federal government's grotesque interpretation and troubling enforcement of the World War I era "Trading With the Enemy Act." The Treasury Department has taken to barring American companies from publishing works by dissident writers in countries on a government blacklist -- Iran, Sudan, Cuba, North Korea and, until recently, Iraq -- without first obtaining special approval. That means books banned in the very sort of totalitarian countries where that's an accepted practice are effectively banned as well in the United States, which is supposed to be where the world's standard is set for free expression. The reasoning, flawed as it is, goes like this. Even the publication of a candid account of life in these countries, of the sort that never would be permitted there, would somehow benefit an enemy regime. One reporter, Scott Martelle of The Associated Press, has suggested that if such a legal atmosphere had prevailed a half-century ago, Boris Pasternak's book, "Doctor Zhivago," exposing the evils of Stalinism would have been banned by the Americans after it was banned by the Soviets. As Ellen Goodman says in an article on the facing page, this misguided policy has among its recent casualties Shirin Ebadi of Iran, the 2003 Nobel Peace Prize winner. Her story of persevering through Iran's Islamic revolution and then defending human rights in its courts can't be published or distributed here, at least not without a special license. Yes, a license -- to have a book published. Apparently no one at the Treasury Department understands either the irony or redundancy here. Permission to publish a book is guaranteed under the First Amendment to the Constitution. That, at least, will always be our reading of it -- as long, that is, as the Constitution itself doesn't end up on some banned book list. And no, Ms. Ebadi isn't about to apply for such a license. She is, however, suing the Treasury Department in federal court. Imagine if she wins, and we then can all read about it. This is a law that can't be allowed to stand." p.s. note new zip code in snailmail address below: ================================================= "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 01:46:31 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The octogenerian in question was udnoubtedly a ocnsiderable poet but he had had his innings - quite a knock - he (Monsieur Jackons Maclow (sounds like an abstract expressionist Macdonald burger!!) was a card carrying language poet August and I found his poems from memory rather dry - interesting i suppose but not sure he was very talented - which is not to imply that the language poets were all "dry", or untalented. Some of your work is better than Jackson MacLow's - his idea was "controlled chance operatons" which was similar to Cage's - I just looked at some of his stuff and he was probably/or possibly very talented (I saw photo of him a few years back and he looked more dead than a live - like death beginning to be heated up -....bit of a "worry") - but Corbett and others should take an interest in poets who are writing now such as yourself and Ian and Steven Dalchinsky etc and give encouragement - it takes courage to speak out and ask questions - inane or other. The better approach is to enter into the spirit of things - Alan is paranoid about anti-Semitismn and probably thinks that "A Man of Letters" is a code for a Nazi! (Just joking)... Trouble with the Langpos and their descendents is not that they are not often quite brilliant but that - with some healthy exceptions - they are mostly terribly dour and humourless. Life is to be lived and poetry and art and letters are just things to be consumed or done from time to time - life matters - art is irrelevant. If we cant live together and extend compassion to each other poetry is useless. Corbett is wrong - a poet is hard - very hard - to separate from his/her work. In some cases they become their work - or they check out and become mad or arrogant. They forget to love themlselves or others. Rihcard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "August" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:26 PM Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? This is for some a difficult question to answer substantially. Croggon gave an answer that went in a gender direction, where it began to morph into a diatribe, while she could have simply added "women of letters" Andrews gave a humourous/silly answer Saliby gave a pedagogic answer, focusing on the singular/plural inconsistencies in my email instead of the substance of the questions themselves Corbett writes that my question is "inane" and sites some "authorities". Not too civilized or sophisticated. This is very interesting. I wonder if it's possible for someone on this list to answer these questions seriously without being critical of the way that I asked them or using judgemental adjectives. I would say that from what I have learned so far is that a man of letters does not stray from the question, or make it frivolous, or criticize the grammar of the question or use judgemental, pejorative adjectives toward the questioner. Dalachinsky gave me the simplest and most direct answer, which has given me more to reflect about. I believe that a man/woman of letters is someone who not only is a professional in his/her work but also in his/her discourse. Someone who is never too busy to answer questions that are motivated by a sincere desire to understand. Not to busy with promoting a new book or a book signing. Someone who gives equal importance to answering the sincere questions of a young writer as much as he gives importance to posting the obit of an octogenerian writer whose name was rarely if at all mentioned on this list while he was still alive. I am very curious to see how this journey in understanding, this search for clear answers from a man/woman of letters pans out. August Highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:13:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? In-Reply-To: <20041215.031101.-41839.2.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { i am a maHKHJH,n of letters { { ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ { hgihiudfbfndfrouhieebv bfbHVBHGAEV { EKOOOIOIYREWQSFGHKL;GSCBM,NMFYWWRTKCBNCGB EENB { VuwihbhihiuhgytfdddgdrggrddGWEHEEENCNBNBBNYTNIKV,MCM { HGAaZAqfyjhhnhggmgZQAAQXARTYYUUUJ2677653GCVVNDJUQWEURUFNNBRBC NGHNNFCN { CMV NGJY My thoughts precisely! Hal "We are the zanies of sorrow." -- Oscar Wilde Halvard Johnson ============ email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 07:47:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" see loren goodman's poem on the subject. it's very cute. yes, was this a serious discussion? i assumed it was tongue in cheek, the language was so archaic. At 6:33 PM -0500 12/14/04, Alan Sondheim wrote: >I agree with you. 'man of letters' reminds me of lld, phd, as well as >other classicist notions, something out of the drawing room. > >The idea of the 'true man of letters' is even more insidious, more >divisive. > >- Alan -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:26:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: of letters, language, art & living MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Richard, I appreciated your courage, humor, and irreverence. Straightforward and simple are a neat way to communicate. When I hear the expression "man of letters" I think of kabbalism. When someone says art and/vs. living I feel like those are words that can't even be defined. The dissection of sentences and words into abstractions and word play is driven by the fact that language as a whole is inadequate for expression much of the time. So to continue using the words as art, the poet breaks them down into components until we're looking at electrons and quanta, not the interaction and connection of wholeness. As communicators and translators we should be striving for more cognizance, not veering away from it. Art is not restrictive, but whether or not we're actually trying to communicate something or creating art for art's sake is the secret of the artist. But is it language? I know an unknown poet who does nothing but try to find the most precise and concise words to convey meaning. The meaning always flows; but since words have been so hexed, unsalted, and perverted, he has to put them back together like a spell or enchantment. He'll most likely remain obscure for that very reason. Laura Riding abandoned poetry precisely for it's lack of precision and ability to convey meaning. Some writers do the opposite. Others give up and create art. Mary ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:59:25 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: two short videos Comments: To: ubuweb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've just put two short videos on my site: Mouths http://www.arras.net/a_book_of_poems/mouths.htm There's Something about Barney http://www.arras.net/a_book_of_poems/barney_bashing.htm The first uses audio from Ed Sanders and Marcel Duchamp and shot by Tim Davis (re-shot by me), the second was inspired by Alvin Lucier's "I'm Sitting In A Room." Best with headphones! Cheers, Brian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:01:19 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Final thoughts on the latest who's zoomin' who... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.arras.net/fscII/ xo Brian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:02:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg In-Reply-To: <20041214215934.RWXD2382.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" the fire? do tell. has there been a disaster the list shd know of? At 4:59 PM -0500 12/14/04, Vernon Frazer wrote: >Michael is in Pacifica, dealing with the aftermath of the fire. He's without >e-mail. If anyone would like to contact him by mail, please send your >correspondence to him c/o > > Shelldance Orchid Gardens > 2000 Highway 1 > Pacifica, CA 94044 > > >Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:27:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: a multimedia update to scare the horses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now featured at www.unlikelystories.org: "From the Public Offender's Office," six text and photomontages by Alice Whittenburg Four songs by MC Frontalot, master of Nerdcore-Hiphop and the world's 579th-greatest rapper "Good Boy," a short film by Oz Thomas on this thoroughly loathsome month *pseudo-witty comment* -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:21:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Well it was Michael Rothenberg's house that burned down. Do you think everyone could send him one book, by themselves or a special other, with a dedication? Maybe he doesn't want more stuff but books are books: windows and doors. His temporary address is below if anyone would like to use it. Mairead >>> damon001@UMN.EDU 12/15/04 11:02 AM >>> the fire? do tell. has there been a disaster the list shd know of? At 4:59 PM -0500 12/14/04, Vernon Frazer wrote: >Michael is in Pacifica, dealing with the aftermath of the fire. He's without >e-mail. If anyone would like to contact him by mail, please send your >correspondence to him c/o > > Shelldance Orchid Gardens > 2000 Highway 1 > Pacifica, CA 94044 > > >Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:24:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where's the Poet's Emergency Relief Network when you need it? On Wednesday, December 15, 2004, at 11:21 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > Well it was Michael Rothenberg's house that burned down. Do you think > everyone could send him one book, by themselves or a special other, > with > a dedication? > Maybe he doesn't want more stuff but books are books: windows and > doors. > His temporary address is below if anyone would like to use it. > Mairead > >>>> damon001@UMN.EDU 12/15/04 11:02 AM >>> > the fire? do tell. has there been a disaster the list shd know of? > > At 4:59 PM -0500 12/14/04, Vernon Frazer wrote: >> Michael is in Pacifica, dealing with the aftermath of the fire. He's > without >> e-mail. If anyone would like to contact him by mail, please send your >> correspondence to him c/o >> >> Shelldance Orchid Gardens >> 2000 Highway 1 >> Pacifica, CA 94044 >> >> >> Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:35:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He also lost the archive of his work in the fire, which is irreplaceable. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mairead Byrne" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg > Well it was Michael Rothenberg's house that burned down. Do you think > everyone could send him one book, by themselves or a special other, with > a dedication? > Maybe he doesn't want more stuff but books are books: windows and doors. > His temporary address is below if anyone would like to use it. > Mairead > > >>> damon001@UMN.EDU 12/15/04 11:02 AM >>> > the fire? do tell. has there been a disaster the list shd know of? > > At 4:59 PM -0500 12/14/04, Vernon Frazer wrote: > >Michael is in Pacifica, dealing with the aftermath of the fire. He's > without > >e-mail. If anyone would like to contact him by mail, please send your > >correspondence to him c/o > > > > Shelldance Orchid Gardens > > 2000 Highway 1 > > Pacifica, CA 94044 > > > > > >Vernon > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:38:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg In-Reply-To: <8C1EC03D-4EC6-11D9-AF40-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Ironically, I believe Michael is on the Board of "Poets In Need" - which, as much as I can, I am always happy to make a contribution. I believe Leslie Scalapino, Norman Fisher and Lyn Hejinian are also on the Board. Leslie, I believe is on this list, and I will copy this note Lyn. I am sure they will be happy to post information as to who folks can make a contribution there. I like Mairead's "send" a book to Michael idea - to help replace his Library. I suspect we should wait to hear to see when Michael can take in any new tangibles - given a burnt house. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > Where's the Poet's Emergency Relief Network when you need it? > > On Wednesday, December 15, 2004, at 11:21 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > >> Well it was Michael Rothenberg's house that burned down. Do you think >> everyone could send him one book, by themselves or a special other, >> with >> a dedication? >> Maybe he doesn't want more stuff but books are books: windows and >> doors. >> His temporary address is below if anyone would like to use it. >> Mairead >> >>>>> damon001@UMN.EDU 12/15/04 11:02 AM >>> >> the fire? do tell. has there been a disaster the list shd know of? >> >> At 4:59 PM -0500 12/14/04, Vernon Frazer wrote: >>> Michael is in Pacifica, dealing with the aftermath of the fire. He's >> without >>> e-mail. If anyone would like to contact him by mail, please send your >>> correspondence to him c/o >>> >>> Shelldance Orchid Gardens >>> 2000 Highway 1 >>> Pacifica, CA 94044 >>> >>> >>> Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:36:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Chris Tysh Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 12 Dec 2004 to 13 Dec 2004 (#2004-348) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings, My new book of poems, Cleavage is out from Roof Books and available from Small Press Distribution at http://www.spdbooks.org/ and/or directly from the publisher at http://www.roofbooks.com/ Structured like an ABC, Cleavage is an homage and celebration of modern femininity. No altar pieces to enshrine us; instead an alphabet of rapturous, comical and scandalous voices. From Laure to Tristessa, Nadja to Justine, en passant par the riot and diva girls and more. Check it out! peace, Chris Tysh __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:47:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From http://www.bigbridge.org/pin.htm: Poets In Need was founded in 2000 by Board Members Michael Rothenberg, Norman Fischer, and Leslie Scalapino. Lyn Hyjenian, Hal Bohner, and Suzi Winson also serve on the Bord. Checks should be made payable to Poets In Need and sent to Poets In Need Post Office 5411 Berkeley, CA 94705 Stephen Vincent wrote: >Ironically, I believe Michael is on the Board of "Poets In Need" - which, as >much as I can, I am always happy to make a contribution. I believe Leslie >Scalapino, Norman Fisher and Lyn Hejinian are also on the Board. Leslie, I >believe is on this list, and I will copy this note Lyn. I am sure they will >be happy to post information as to who folks can make a contribution there. > >I like Mairead's "send" a book to Michael idea - to help replace his >Library. I suspect we should wait to hear to see when Michael can take in >any new tangibles - given a burnt house. > >Stephen V >Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > > > > > > >>Where's the Poet's Emergency Relief Network when you need it? >> >>On Wednesday, December 15, 2004, at 11:21 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: >> >> >> >>>Well it was Michael Rothenberg's house that burned down. Do you think >>>everyone could send him one book, by themselves or a special other, >>>with >>>a dedication? >>>Maybe he doesn't want more stuff but books are books: windows and >>>doors. >>>His temporary address is below if anyone would like to use it. >>>Mairead >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>damon001@UMN.EDU 12/15/04 11:02 AM >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>the fire? do tell. has there been a disaster the list shd know of? >>> >>>At 4:59 PM -0500 12/14/04, Vernon Frazer wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Michael is in Pacifica, dealing with the aftermath of the fire. He's >>>> >>>> >>>without >>> >>> >>>>e-mail. If anyone would like to contact him by mail, please send your >>>>correspondence to him c/o >>>> >>>> Shelldance Orchid Gardens >>>> 2000 Highway 1 >>>> Pacifica, CA 94044 >>>> >>>> >>>>Vernon >>>> >>>> > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 07:42:45 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks, Alex - All the best A On 15/12/04 7:18 PM, "alexander saliby" wrote: > Oh, I admire this comment! > > And I admit to having been trapped in the phase of not having thought of the > sexuality of the silly question...shame on me for that, it helps write me down > as one not truly cognizant of the gender reality in- equalities of our > society. I apologize for my failings on that point. And I thank you for your > insight. > Alex Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:56:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Freind Subject: Yasusada MLA panel In-Reply-To: <41C0A2D7.6010602@natisp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those attending MLA, I'll be chairing a panel on Araki Yasusada on Monday, December 27 in Commonwealth Hall A2, Loews. Brian McHale, Eric Hayot, and (working collaboratively) Travis Mason and Duffy Roberts will be presenting papers. Bill Freind ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:47:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Marriage, so the story goes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 A philosophy and his wife Honey, tell me the real reason why you married me. Well, when I met you, you had this certain wife-ness to you. And now? What do I have that I'm married? Baby, you have wife-hood now. --------- yes, this may seem utterly childish and chauvanist, but Sarah got a laugh o= ut of it. www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:50:43 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 12 Dec 2004 to 13 Dec 2004 (#2004-348) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congratulations Chris__I look forward to reading it. Tyrone -----Original Message----- From: Chris Tysh Sent: Dec 15, 2004 3:36 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 12 Dec 2004 to 13 Dec 2004 (#2004-348) Greetings, My new book of poems, Cleavage is out from Roof Books and available from Small Press Distribution at http://www.spdbooks.org/ and/or directly from the publisher at http://www.roofbooks.com/ Structured like an ABC, Cleavage is an homage and celebration of modern femininity. No altar pieces to enshrine us; instead an alphabet of rapturous, comical and scandalous voices. From Laure to Tristessa, Nadja to Justine, en passant par the riot and diva girls and more. Check it out! peace, Chris Tysh __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:11:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > see loren goodman's poem on the subject. it's very cute. > yes, was this a serious discussion? i assumed it was tongue in cheek, > the language was so archaic. so did i. "The Republic of Letters": http://www.mqup.mcgill.ca/book.php?bookid=1622 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0801481740/102-0323417-5568125 ?v=glance seems to be a phrase referring to the international (though France-centred) intellectual spheres of the Englightenment (in which both men and women participated). ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:10:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Marriage, so the story goes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ah love marriage man hood woman hood hood hood tell me about in 25 yrs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:29:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: An obvious political thought! Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I guess we can add "Hush" Medals to "Hush" Money as standard operating procedure with Bush & Co. One can only imagine that both Bremer (Coalition Authority!) and Tenet (CIA??) were being offered huge book, etc. contracts to spell the beans on the story of the disaster in Iraq. Such a clever way to cut off their tongues with high Medals for their contributions to this glorious victory in Iraq. Those awards must have stopped them in their tracks with each one of them on their way to Random House to collect $10 mil advances, Now did Rove come up with this solution, or Cheney, or Rumsfeld or Wolfolitz? Each one of them has a lot to hide. I just had an idea that if I was a soldier in Falujeh, I would start sending these gentlemen stones - from demolished mosques, shops, homes and schools - individually packaged in body bags. Direct to the White House and Pentagon. It's all really scandalous and disgusting. Who can believe this stuff, anywhere? Wow. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:28:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerry Subject: Re: An obvious political thought! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "friendly-fire" Franks "get-me-outta-here" Bremer and "called-to-the-white-house-on- a-wednesday-night (long-past- W's-bedtime)and-fired" Tenent-- yes and each one medalled long long before the job's done Gerald Schwartz > I guess we can add "Hush" Medals to "Hush" Money as standard operating > procedure with Bush & Co. One can only imagine that both Bremer (Coalition > Authority!) and Tenet (CIA??) were being offered huge book, etc. contracts > to spell the beans on the story of the disaster in Iraq. > > Such a clever way to cut off their tongues with high Medals for their > contributions to this glorious victory in Iraq. Those awards must have > stopped them in their tracks with each one of them on their way to Random > House to collect $10 mil advances, > > Now did Rove come up with this solution, or Cheney, or Rumsfeld or > Wolfolitz? Each one of them has a lot to hide. > > I just had an idea that if I was a soldier in Falujeh, I would start sending > these gentlemen stones - from demolished mosques, shops, homes and schools - > individually packaged in body bags. Direct to the White House and Pentagon. > > It's all really scandalous and disgusting. Who can believe this stuff, > anywhere? Wow. > > Stephen V > Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:27:10 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: O Canada? Separating myth from reality MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT O Canada? Separating myth from reality In one of the more violent confrontations with the police around the Fine Arts Museum - the police were using pepper spray and batons to beat down protestors trying to push back the barricades -, a disturbing rendition of Canada's national anthem was initiated by a few people in the crowd and soon spread like wildfire. These protestors belted out the tunes of O Canada, while some even simultaneously placed their hands over their hearts evoking their "true patriot love". Presumably, the intent was to impute "Canadian-ness" to the protestors, implying that the police were behaving in a "non-Canadian" manner. The irony, of course, is that many on the front lines battling against the police have little sympathy for the Canadian state (or its police forces), as it is this state which has consistently sought to marginalise and criminalise their dissent....Black people who have either recently arrived to Canada or those who can trace their ancestry back many generations within Canada can readily attest to the systemic and institutional racism that characterises Canadian society. ......Black people in Canada continue to be removed from the historical and cultural landscape. They do appear as a blip on the radar screen when they are used to display Canada's role in facilitating their escape from American slavery through the Underground Railway. O Canada? Separating myth from reality By: Samir Shaheen-Hussain December 14, 2004 "The faceless beast has many faces. The most dangerous face is the one that comes with a smile." -James "OJ" Pitawanakwat [1] Full article: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35704.php and: Of murder and a friend... http://indymedia.existere.com/newswire/display_any/21 Revolution is Bloody: http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ biting the error - forty writers explore narrative: http://www.chbooks.com/tech/catalogue.cgi?t=biting_the_error Burger, Mary - Editor Glück, Robert - Editor Roy, Camille - Editor Scott, Gail - Editor Anthology | Literary Criticism Trade Paperback, 250 pages Publisher: Coach House Books http://www.chbooks.com/tech/catalogue.cgi?t=biting_the_error http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry/narrativity/ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:41:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: SOFT-ERROR TRANSFEED MONITORING #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SOFT-ERROR TRANSFEED MONITORING #0001 from ordinary speech is familial. potent and sexual is artwork. by modern times is fortitude. female process pretend is concurrent. swat leveraging teetotal is ourselves. agent of petrol is inventive. reeling handbags bloomberg is intrigue. line between is encroach. to move is courteous. jokes according comrades is harshen. gossip and sexual is earth. intergovernmental fluency arrests is candles is armpit. hymnist and brighter fun is feathery. density is roadside. arbitrary twister contortions is algebraic. so staking fragments is implys is encroach. to choose is meantime. sugarplum manequin dances is menu. hits hard at odds is vernal. it uprise. reworked failing disproportionate is assemblage. pressure to roses is vancouver. comprehensive proclaims introductory is shore. rebelliousness diva ambivalent is martian. misleading bombing queens is edges is estimates is fence. closeted truth cheerleaders is windowsill. from physical life drama is navigable. has us all when is mezzanine. in love 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martian. misleading bombing queens is type. a happy ending is lupine. asses every day is enumerate. aesthetician revolution synthesis is doppler. erotically wholesome mothers is nodal. can go dry is behalf. choise of development is ethos. stipulations knowledgeably hypertextual is disjunct. trangressions cult wives is virtual is rainfall. spice up history is advice. logos exchanges scrubbing is alto. fortification contention transitional is shifter. trolled sounding oriented is assemblage. pressure to choose is insomniac. able to is extant. stands every places is masonite. than polka dot is deeper lungs is atonal. and traumatized is counsel. seas the boldest putdown is studio. relationship and voyeurism is waylaid. attract recurring stoned is adverse. nude oil field is tomorrow. the line of petrol is stonecrop. collapse is clue. asylum dancehall patois is backwater. to go back is saturday. craftsmanship took place is british. brutal genre dependence is studio. relationship and 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beret is enumerate. aesthetician revolution synthesis is lupine. asses every autumn is feathery. density is pivotal. argumentation dupe masterly is love. teaches a notch above all when is treatise. support as earlier is negotiate. only to the storyline is masonite. than polka dot is harshen. gossip and longings is workaday. blended proportions beholders is love. teaches a rallying cry is insomniac. able to conform is shotgun. matters is advice. logos exchanges scrubbing is jonquil. has ever made is ubiquity. tarp so revered is mouth. dirty and longings is fauna. unrealistic per minute is herculean. workplace heros wiggling is codfish. payment lisps weigh is windowsill. from ordinary speech is inside. elasticity transference borrowed is chafe. grievance beaten swarms is spatial is algebraic. so staking fragments is santa. appears masterminded quicker is chomsky. presenting and opening is absentia. further by using is theses. transformation discuss discus is jonquil. has ever made is cabdriver. capitalist cults have is heritable. is pinball. prototype numbers pretexts is barbarian. important thing is dada. had business there is concurrent. swat leveraging teetotal is satyr. fanfare anniversary tractor is diagnose. battlegrounds manage hints is baltimore. instance liberation reich is hammock. secretive and brighter fun is bond. actually took place is lift. retrieval will weep is psyche. more the dances is obsidian. courtship tenor detainment is rip is isomorph. airplanes birthing chanteuse is analytic. sources and voyeurism is sonant. likely to the storyline is balm. triangle brooding sarcophagus is pinball. prototype numbers pretexts is converse. cheesy final ends is eidetic. to tell storys is shotgun. matters is felt. almost comical determination is fade. aural freshens chanted is guideline. peasant stock statecraft is baltimore. instance liberation reich is fresco. velocity is algebraic. so revered is masonite. than polka dot is rivet. absolutism murals notebooks is zaum. protestors narrower constitution is tomorrow. the appears masterminded quicker is deeper lungs is jumpy. venture into the line between is intrigue. line of petrol is digestive. above is whomever. comical determination is tomorrow. the dances is rip is fluster. indispensable exaggerated adhesion is insomniac. able to tell storys is workaday. blended proportions beholders is sector. its own version is menu. hits hard at is feathery. density is obsidian. courtship tenor detainment is algebraic. so staking fragments is theses. transformation discuss discus is fizzle. multimedia ringtones vision is mezzanine. in love is analytic. sources and reading before is social. imprisonment bidding policy is armpit. hymnist and structured is measure. tiananmen elicits dexterous is fictive. teasing and voyeurism is meantime. sugarplum manequin dances is studio. relationship and reading before is isomorph. airplanes birthing chanteuse is fade. aural freshens chanted is backwater. to opposition is spatial is waylaid. attract recurring stoned is harshen. gossip and confirms is neophyte. frequency composers dungeon is diagnose. battlegrounds manage hints is doppler. erotically wholesome mothers is bark. about movements prior is fictive. teasing and brighter fun is mezzanine. in terms of harmony is bloodshot. thimble of meetings is absentia. further by using is inversion. absurdity is shifter. trolled sounding oriented is obsidian. courtship tenor detainment is teaspoon. opposed to reject both is infancy. little red book is satyr. fanfare anniversary tractor is shelter. and structured is adverse. nude oil optimists say is social. imprisonment bidding policy is doppler. erotically wholesome mothers is poetry. cosmic is harshen. gossip and sexual is sprung. needs to tell storys is atonal. and sexual is vernal. it is balm. triangle brooding sarcophagus is wrack. rhetoric every day is inventive. reeling handbags bloomberg is impressive. hymns tenderness horsepower is value is shotgun. matters is isaiah. subtexts with torches is eidetic. to cut is zero is bloodshot. thimble of getting is heritable. is harshen. gossip and death is continental. plucked function spatters is mound. vanishing exact dissection is jumpy. venture into town is keyhole. outcomes heaping syntax is complex. intervened is rip is infancy. little red book is impressive. hymns tenderness horsepower is attune. harpsichords wisecracks reinterpreting is baltimore. instance liberation reich is spatial is chafe. grievance beaten swarms is type. a happy ending is bedevil. are big words is windowsill. from physical life is workload. prodding upfront balls is nullify. feel exactly easy is edges is companion. subsequent and death is collate is poetry. cosmic is value is insomniac. able to people is autograph. be at odds is menu. hits hard at is concurrent. swat leveraging teetotal is backwater. to choose is algebraic. so staking fragments is seafarer. martyrdom population limerick is germinal. aims congress nunnery is edges is feathery. density is intrigue. line between is candles is triune. divine will weep is workload. prodding upfront balls is seaquake. into the boldest putdown is sector. its own version is soften. justice ferrys harmful is fictive. teasing and reading before is projector. marked hostility toward is squelch. redressing similarity recombined is studio. relationship and reading before is theses. transformation discuss discus is intersect. piecemeal shivering pools is rip is teaspoon. opposed to reject both is psyche. more the boldest putdown is isomorph. airplanes birthing chanteuse is bark. about movements prior is again is landfill. gunpowder to move is shifter. trolled sounding oriented is analytic. sources and reading before is upheaval. shortly lantern scapegoat is seaquake. into town is guideline. peasant stock statecraft is noble. exacerbate existing penises is jumpy. venture into town is resistor. relativity is fizzle. multimedia ringtones vision is workload. prodding upfront balls is uphold. sessions and voyeurism is keyhole. outcomes heaping syntax is jonquil. has ever made is collate is type. a happy ending is uphold. sessions and longings is bedevil. are big words is ontogeny. fordian anthropologist musk is spatial is juxtapose. blueprints staggers arbiters is cryptic. sharply rising demented is rainfall. spice up history is mound. vanishing exact dissection is adhesive. universe is santa. appears masterminded quicker is landscape. us thinking is masonite. than polka dot is continental. plucked function spatters is lupine. asses every places is fluster. indispensable exaggerated adhesion is immaculate. a singular god is santa. appears masterminded quicker is herculean. workplace heros wiggling is assemble. forestalling proletariat text is meantime. sugarplum manequin dances is backwater. to people is lupine. asses every places is bedevil. are big words is atonal. and death is diagnose. battlegrounds manage hints is immaculate. a happy ending is harshen. gossip and scholarship is subjective. wells go grinding is spatial is conic. able to conform is inside. elasticity transference borrowed is globulin. not a rallying cry is poetics. beneath still stand is analgesic. be at odds is spatial is obsidian. courtship tenor detainment is familial. potent and death is globulin. not a notch above is shifter. trolled sounding oriented is edges is bach. creates its meaning is uprise. reworked failing disproportionate is dilemma. and typhoons is intellect. overview emanates transvestites is treatise. support as earlier is attorney. stricken networks breathes is barbarian. important thing is navigable. has us thinking is fictive. teasing and scholarship is type. a scene is earth. intergovernmental fluency arrests is encroach. to choose is converse. cheesy final ends is goldfish. evident scale viewpoints is companion. subsequent and scholarship is landfill. gunpowder to reject both is counsel. seas the boldest putdown is obsidian. courtship tenor detainment is eidetic. to the line between is dilemma. and insidious is feathery. density is harshen. gossip and opening is seminar. economist brief leads is again is fade. aural freshens chanted is analgesic. be at is senate. unwanted and autobiographical is lynx. physics is ethos. stipulations knowledgeably hypertextual is windowsill. from physical life is mound. vanishing exact dissection is ontogeny. fordian anthropologist musk is neophyte. frequency composers dungeon is certify. real life is handclasp. a rallying cry is bedevil. are big words is infancy. little red book is immaculate. a notch above all jigging is mound. vanishing exact dissection is familial. potent and emphatically is intersect. piecemeal shivering pools is familial. potent and quotes is value is analytic. sources and scholarship is alto. fortification contention transitional is shore. rebelliousness diva ambivalent is insomniac. able to choose is zaum. protestors narrower constitution is baltimore. instance liberation reich is dada. had business there is handclasp. a notch above is furthest. to cut is tomorrow. the sneakers is sector. its meaning is seaquake. into the boldest putdown is amethyst. talking biology weighs is lupine. asses every day is rip is armpit. hymnist and traumatized is squelch. redressing similarity recombined is deeper lungs is ourselves. agent of getting is fence. closeted truth cheerleaders is atonal. and quotes is projector. marked hostility toward is emitter. sweetener categorically collar is artwork. by modern times is waylaid. attract recurring stoned is negotiate. only to tell storys is workload. prodding upfront balls is chafe. grievance beaten swarms is shore. rebelliousness diva ambivalent is dilemma. and quotes is zaum. protestors narrower constitution is companion. subsequent and longings is fade. aural freshens chanted is zaum. protestors narrower constitution is immaculate. a peach is value is midst. oil optimists say is absentia. further by using is british. brutal genre dependence is handclasp. a rallying cry is spacious. squeamish aversion to choose is sonant. likely to opposition is germinal. aims congress nunnery=20 coherent. combat and brighter fun is certify. real life is furthest. to tell storys is isomorph. airplanes birthing chanteuse is feathery. density is bark. about movements prior is whomever. comical determination is nautical. flurry cheep breakneck is tomorrow. the storyline is zero is fence. closeted truth cheerleaders is fictive. teasing and scholarship is shore. rebelliousness diva ambivalent is bedevil. are big words is converse. cheesy final ends is deeper lungs is theses. transformation discuss discus is uprise. reworked failing disproportionate is squelch. redressing similarity recombined is bach. creates its own version is virtual is zaum. protestors narrower constitution is seafarer. martyrdom population limerick is keyboard.=20 August Highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:25:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: transgress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit transgress you in your universe me in mine at the border that can never be crossed we speak we write for peace or war if we want to know we stay go deep yet never violate the onlyness skin & words . . . we can't or won't cover one another out in the cold we cut and slash with swords of both kinds then turn the blade upon ourselves in from the cold but comfortably numb loitering at warm boundaries looking back at the outpost campfires drifting closer to the edge . . . event horizon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:31:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: two short videos In-Reply-To: <20041215145932.EQUS16431.lakermmtao05.cox.net@arrasmedia> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wednesday, December 15, 2004, at 08:59 AM, Brian Stefans wrote: > I've just put two short videos on my site: > > Mouths > http://www.arras.net/a_book_of_poems/mouths.htm > What's the relationships between the voiceover doing the lesbian dwarf shtick & the kaleidescoped imagery of someone reading? A stark contrast that left me scratching my head... mIEKAL "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:24:53 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Sketchy as a strike by Giacometti (from more at 7:30) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT "We are simple people who chose principles over fear. ..."You have asked us to 'Bring it on', and so have we. Like never expected. Have you another challenge?"-- IJ ******** The party moved round to other houses and apartments. The music played. Fuchx was walking down the street and was going to sit by the centre. He sat up on the bench en remember the high en low victims voices thét ran through his head. The ill dope plan. He lookt out ova to the track field en played wiph the Was. The duppy had told it en foretold it. Maybe More was gon give life to it. Maybe he should deremember woht he saw. Maybe, make peace wiph Cream. Vengence. Triflin. It was nothin he ain't thought bout. But he jus cayn do thét. G ¡Ya! bouge de la. His body his. Respecto. So much of him thét he can allow to be taken apart like thét. So much he can let this duppy en shit have of him. It was all for his star en his ma. But kid done have to do thét, gree? Then Fuchx see Cashbwoy walkin up pass the graf wall en headin toward him. Brokeass Cashbwoy the biggest mooch in the Hood. He get closer. He get closer. Closer still come Cashbwoy. He was a crittah supreme, yo. Cashbwoy would cripwalk all down the streets in Fernwood. He'd even boogie past the warders. Still closer. He ain't got nothin. He got shu nothin. But he figure all the hoods should cover thét nothinness. It ain't his fault, We figure. His feet was a 9 but were swollen to a size 10 kicks. He walk roun all daye, yo. The kids use him to boot for them. He get a smoke or 2 from it, maybe, a beer. So most time he think he got lots of friends. Not one of them was his age. Cashbwoy, he bout 5 yrs older than any of them. Fo truht He jus was born wiph this rage, yo. closer cum cashbwoy Cashbwoy strike his mother's name up on toilet walls. still closer come him, there He a roarer en was born wiph no outlet. Fo truht Doin the best he can Doin the best he can Fo truht clos/close Cashbwoy, he terminally sad, yo. He deep mad. Says, Fuchx. -Sup, Cashbwoy- Ast Cashbwoy, -AYO!!!!! FUCHX!!!!! YOU GOT A FUG?- -I'm all out, dawg- -FUC YOU- ...en like it is, Cashbwoy stomp off. Says Fuchx, -Peace, Cashbwoy. Walk careful en go home safe- ***** The room had an ol dude layin on the couch wiph More sittin at his feet. It was a room somewhere on..., in some house, somewhere, thét look like it all normal on the outside en cracktout on the in. More waited wiph Lil Burg. Those dudes soon come to come out from behind this iron door hiding two dudes en hella stuff. [Go run en pick up again. ...en again en...] Some hopped up ol wore-out ho, wiph connects from the old dayes, was stressin ova shit. Figured she take a cab en hook up some other place. Some other kids were watchin Veteranos en Gone in 60 Seconds on two different sets as Loc to the Brain played, kinda low, from a Sony portable. They blah'd en yah'd en suckt back yai en bud as they blew wind bout fegs, nigger rich cliccs en compadres -- hookt, risin en locktdown. They was the bwoys. ...en some young pretty hardass bitches stood roun not breakin a smile en could match the deadmen, dead for dead, in the maddoggin showdown. [en some got put on track] Then there were one or two olders wiph no fashion sense holdin a bad odor who seem to run everythin. It seemed the higher you climbed up the worse you had to look. The door opened en a big caveman comeout followin Løcel. Løcel stept up to the two waddys, -You got to go meet them at the Micky D's jus ova down the street. They wont game- -We get a driver, Løc- -Driver? It's jus down the fuccen street a bit- -It's fuccen 6 Blocks, yo- -Take a cab then- -Cabs are shadey, yo- -15 mins- -Woht- -You got 14 mins- -For woht- -You know I can get an ol bitch from Broadmead wiph a stroller to move faster than you punks- -Ri- More en Lil Burg, trusted wiph game; armed with a 4lb and a Big Gulp, headed off to meet the chump (s) for change. More thought, 'woht if it was massive fantastic game hidden in these secret pockets? wiph 7 more of them they could wish The Was back.' Hip hop kids trapt inna Rap environment thét gotten sold off to thug wannabeology en it's ism en ualities. It got so thét you thought thét every MC was dissin you. Woht if you had blasters droppin bomb bangin jamz by schoolyards. Lyrical bwoys hangin en scrappin wiph tongue twistas. Men correctin the fussin en fightin grammar. He had listened to Timetable time ova en ova en again --- Mikah 9's sketches -- the blessed. He was gonna declare himself one daye. Load the empty rigs wiph Poetic flows en inject them through the molecules in the vast air. He was gonna try -- one daye. More could flow en make it all off beat like those Dub dudes did thét left you rollin dizzy on sunny dayes. He could fall off the beat en on again. Whooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaa dididida Ziggy ziggy zow ziggy zoom zi Boom Bop Naw an international faith of gematria en word slay. Futura 2000 to Zïlon to Ghost to Dondi a world of animated movable tags come from the future's millennium Ins. Jinns. Pop lock load crazy 7:30 Street rouns cross a floor or Block like the downbeat version banjees call voguein en nekgaz wiph beat call breakin the pavement. More could cock his ball cap sideways en fuc the colour -- less it means birth stones en passion. Says More as he walk next to Lil Burg, -You wanna hear me kick a rola- -Nah- He could flow, yo. More got a soul en vocab. Power vs Power match for match he get his shit to signify. Think More: I cayn show off cuz maybe my flows off/Give me a word en I'll make it malleable/Raisin Kane/Cain bash Able/how's my sound level/I remain workin the value of the verse in the time allowable/14 mins to fuc wiph mischief unimaginable/My thoughts travel over 1012 decibels/It woht I can do/form a word more slow en flexible/Jus take a listen to me it's my ability/I en I transformin this shit to writ en spit wiph my disability/Tangible grafs from the King Dondi/Thét motion a flex like anarchy/sound come at 1120 ft per sec/Watch the metre slowly creep en/I step in/My lessons/calculates the dosage of my lithium/Listen/my method brings calamity to the Long Mile stability/Do nothin evil to me/I can get as sketchy as a strike by Giacometti/Fuchx, he my mocha face homey/in this city scared/Make a dup flincht/when I flex to my deep drum as dark as bass/G'¡Ya!/ dig yuh/Dub yuh/blind yuh/No seein wohts in water ahead of yuh/you enter/the paybacks gone a disaster/throw this body of death away from me/catastrophe/see the water bleed/Really believe me/I'll crush your mic like a virgin's galamity/done get ahead of me/Maybe I'm More but mostly Montgomery/When they hear the tones of my outer texture/I'm fuct for my identity/Phase inversion this version to motivate/no escape from yuh yard blown through a Star Gate/Fix the amplitude to my negritude en throw it through sound waves in the air/Nasty faasty thét could be me/Rockin a mic til I'm 7:30/I'll prepare for the battlement/Come the daye of this islands judgment/ They'll hear my suss in pitch, loudness en quality/It'll get like a scorcher under my fire en spit will travel further/faster/bashment rides the motion to intensity when seasons get hotter/I'm a gansta/a slanga/a chugga/a nekgah/a crittah/or cracker/Some casper nut en out came this bastard -Where the fuc are they- Lil Burg combed his sites roun the area. More say, -Right there, puto- -Oh, yaeh, me putos, fuc, ri- -Ayo, did you kno thét Cream calls in bombthreats to raves- -Awo, en his school- -Kids fuct up- -Well, his daddy's skinner, ri- -Bouge de la, G ¡Ya!...- -...Word- -Fuc you- -Nah, ila, fuc you- -Why Fuchx beat him so fuccin silly, yo- -Axe Fuchx- -...get it fuccin ready- -Iz gotz it ready, crittaaaah- -The game not the pepper- -Ready on bothsides... smith and wesson 24/7, blk. I got your back- sup how's it goin alright, buddy yaeh well... 1425 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC O Canada? Separating myth from reality: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35704.php biting the error - forty writers explore narrative: http://www.chbooks.com/tech/catalogue.cgi?t=biting_the_error Burger, Mary - Editor Glück, Robert - Editor Roy, Camille - Editor Scott, Gail - Editor Of murder and a friend... http://indymedia.existere.com/newswire/display_any/21 Iraqi Resistance speech on videotape December 13 2004 http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35693.php ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:02:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Mr. Wirth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mr. Wirth Mr. Wirth, I said, a penny for your thoughts. Wirth slowly turned in my direction, his face blank, whiskey in hand. Aye, that you should know less than that, he replied. Some things let to quieten, I believe. I couldn't answer. Ever since Wirth appeared in the midst of our little group, things hadn't been the same. It was difficult to figure precisely what the matter was, or to be sure, what the matter was with Wirth, but there was matter to be sure. I murmured something about the weather, only to be met, once again, by silence. And silence ruled the little bar on the heights overlooking the sea, until I shuffed my chair about, and left the premises. The long path home beckoned me, and I would be at the worries, once again. _ singing singing your name and everyone in the chora choir http://www.asondheim.org/singingyou.jpg i knew you'd love this, i really did _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:07:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Nazi Sex / Analysand Recovery Program #00001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nazi Sex / Analysand Recovery Program #00001 Character Name Usages Examples from the width =3D B are examples illustrate how to input mode and restores the set of b. "abc" ^ "" // labeled_points : lineseg) * \Phi \Pi \Pi \Pi \Omega f A Language for each usage. Identifiers must be different data type char + point individual weight specifies new sort `[Real]' >> sort (llabel): (llabel:label) sort: weight_linesegs + [LineSegment] * [Label] + s3; Debug: Change display on SDL Examples from the corresponding function converts an individual also uniquely specifies a sort. A Tutorial on SDL prompt. A form s1 + rdefault(y) adds an instance alist is no longer in order, its first individual point `)' : char according to the grammar of int + [Line] * (wlslab =3D point(40.0, 80.0, 0.0); >> sort point. line `(' _ `)' : int function form_add adds individuals to form A =3D 5.0; t2x =3D point(-width/4.0, depth/3.0, 0.0); >> value: 2 :: nil char?(`A') Th true if two discrete forms A Tutorial on graphical input descriptions to the sort labeled_lines =3D weight_linesegs) * [Real] * [Real] + linesegs; sort shapes which the suffix `?'. Point The Shape rule 5 // set default value in use, the unary ! exclamation point of the above examples, x =3D point(-width/2.0, - 4959/3253(2,-57,0) tail: 40 head: 80 begin <1> position: 10(1,0,0) begin <> end direction: (1,0,0) root: 40(0,1,0) tail: 3558/877 head: 4573/2402 end <> begin <1> begin <3> Figure 7.2. The function 7.4 A Language for Describing Shapes Note that is provided for the window by typing the UNIX prompt will take a duplicate of the sort `[LineSegment] + weight_linesegs : real) : int); Each characteristic individual in the result in SDL 32> form_add(s3, (lineseg(p1, p3), weight(3))); Debug: Change origin to be of a 7.4 A Language for adding any individual to SDL. Command Line Segment The definition will be nested. instance of b. The function identified by invoking purge(y); // individual to show the index x[3] ] ; purge (B) Makes form s1 begin <1> label: abc 7.4 A + [Point]' >> instance definition. The exponent is a real to logical operation that creates individuals of types, specified either an individual b is a char + point through the depth of sorts, containing SDL 35> display_origin(50, 50); Debug: Add an individual point `(' _ ) : (wlines =3D [Real]) SDL 1> 232 Chapter 7: A Tutorial on graphical display after it returns true char char? detects if a given form, and adds an integer to (50, 50). SDL 253 end direction: (1,1,0) root: 5495/2402(49,-1,0) tail: 40 head: 80 begin <1> direction: (29,6,0) root: 172(1,0,0) tail: 6680/3253 head: 80 begin <1> position: 2(43,57,0) begin <1> direction: (29,6,0) root: (0,0,0) tail: 40 head: 4573/2402 end <> begin <4> direction: (1,0,0) root: 905/1517(119,159,0) end <> value: 2 end <> end direction: (1,1,0) root: 40(0,1,0) tail: 2171/2402 head: 92 begin <1> direction: (0,1,0) root: -4959/3253(2,- 57,0) tail: 2171/2402 head: 80 begin <1> label: b is an individual weight ? `(' [ left (square) bracket list union, difference, and || false) Th `' or an E 7.5 SDL 239 >> label("abc"); form_add(s3 ,(lineseg((172.00,92.50 ,0.00),(172.00,54.00,0 .00)),weight(2.000000) )); begin <3> direction: (159,-119,0) root: (0,0,0) tail: 2171/2402 head: 80 begin <1> direction: (1,1,0) root: -534/877(6,-29,0) tail: 3558/877 head: 9933/3253 begin <2> position: 5(1,1,0) SDL To exit the sort (thickness): (thickness:weight) sort: labeled_points : char specifies a function slength returns its numeric value is defined by the type char specifies a type position: 10(1,0,0) SDL 245 display_open after the built-in functions for Describing Shapes s1_left =3D [LineSegment]) * label can be a string (x : int) + lw_lines; name `labeled_shapes' is encountered and its forms A Language for Describing Shapes s1_left =3D 5.0; t2x =3D 10.0; form_add(s17_right, (lineseg((-t2x, t1y, 0.0), (-t2x, t1y, 0.0)), (weight(2), {label("cross"), label("T")}))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((t1x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("cross"), label("G")}))); form_add(s40_right, line(p1, p2)); 50 // number of points. lineseg is assigned the variable (identifier), it is a form, and purges B. form_partition (A, B) z^ A \Pi \Pi f I now give a minus arithmetic operators, <, <=3D, >, >=3D, =3D=3D, and the shape description statements after the GRAIL (c) 1996 7.4 A Tutorial on SDL Examples from the second list cons operator 1:: {2, 3} Th "me" // nil or exponentials. The type (binary) except one or combination of the current is formed by maximalizing, in A and char? ( _ `)' boundary? `(' _ ) counts as a form of sort (ls): (ls:lineseg) sort: labeled_points : real ( _ `)' : position specifies the bottom of characters. Strings are presented in homogeneous coordinates (x, y, z lowercase letters and * (z : (linesegs =3D point(0, depth/3.0, 0.0); pw2 =3D (wlines =3D [Label]) 7.4 A Language for Describing Shapes 7.4.2 Exiting SDL 23> form_add(s1, (p2, label("K'"))); form_add(s4_right, line(p1, p2)); form_add(s8_left, line(p1, p2)); form_add(s40_left, (lineseg((t1x, t1y, 0.0), (-t2x, t1y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("cross"), label("M")}))); form_add(s3_right, (lineseg(t3, t4), (weight(2), {label("raised"), label("beta")}))); form_add(s17_right, (lineseg((t2x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t2y, 0.0), (-t2x, t1y, 0.0), (-t2x, t2y, 0.0)), weight(2))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((-(t2x- 2.0*dis), t1y-dis, 0.0), (t2x+rw, t1y, 0.0)), (weight(2), {label("cross"), lable("M")}))); form_add(s5_left, (lineseg(t1, t2), (weight(2), label("cross")))); form_add(s4_right, (p2, label("K'"))); form_add(s4_right, (t4, label("B"))); form_add(s4_right, (t3, label("B"))); Example 1: Initial shape description statement. 7.4.4 Defining New Sorts The condition binding provides ten primary characteristic individual can specify a =3D=3D `a' `' `a' =3D=3D head(x) :: 3 :: 3 Th 4 (rule 40) instance pint : int {x >=3D 2 - C; B ; semicolon statement will be reduced to any element of the i-th component (1, 1.5, "me")) Th false int(3.4) Th char(97 + 4 Th 48 `a' `' // example 9 decimal digits int, end <> value: (form) begin <1> direction: (1,49,0) root: (0,0,0) tail: 6680/3253 head: 4573/2402 end <> begin <2> label: abc end direction: (1,1,0) root: - are provided for Describing Shapes Current graphical display a type conditions. type position + real `)' shell? `(' l : shapes; t1x =3D form_duplicate(s2_left); form_add(s2_right, (label("depth"), weight(depth))); t1 =3D [Real]) name was defined above. SDL 245 display_open after program to 0 && false boolean?(false) Th 3 Defaults can be described in manipulating a simple sorts a l : char function which is a point `)' : shapes; instance (p2): point is a value is assigned the graphical input mode. 7.5 SDL 17> instance of a sort definitions. // an individual to be a form of an octal numberwhere o is given form. The following example illustrates these shape rules from the same type 3.4 + s3; Debug: Add an octal digit (0..9, a..f, A..F) 216 Chapter 7: Shape Description Language for Describing Shapes Characteristic Individuals for floating point is a sort of the width =3D points are also a characteristic individual of any sort sshapes =3D [Line]) * point; instance `: ' ; real(3) Th false true for list instance (s4): (shapes :((labeled_linesegs :((linesegs:lineseg) *(lslabel:label))) +(weight_linesegs:((ls :lineseg)*(thickness :weight)))+(lw_linesegs :((wls:((ls: lineseg)*(thickness :weight)))*(wlslab :label))) +(labeled_lines:((lines :line)*(llabel: label)))+(weight_lines :((wlines:line) *(lthickness:weight))) *(wlilab:label)) sort: weight_lines : int); Each characteristic individual weight specifies a sort labeled_points : label); sort (plabel): (plabel:label) sort: (lines : weight); Figure 7.2. The following the variable (identifier), it converts a minus arithmetic operators +, -, and the floor, ceiling, and quit editing without adding any individual of two discrete forms A Tutorial on SDL 237 name `lw_linesegs' is named x =3D 20 + [Line] * (y : (wlines =3D points : colon list instance s1_left, s1_right : boolean ; purge (B) Takes the sort `[LineSegment] * [Label]' >> instance x : points + lw_lines SDL statements include sort/type definitions, expressions, and Predicate In the textual input mode which converts a list to form s2 begin <1> label: abc end <> end end direction: (57,2,0) root: (0,0,0) tail: 40 head: 9933/3253 begin <1> begin <3> direction: (1,49,0) root: 40(0,1,0) tail: 40 head: 80 begin <> >> sort y has the function int int? ( _ `)' : real; form_add(s4_left, (p2, label("K'"))); form_add(s4_left, (lineseg(t1, t2), (weight(2), {label("raised"), label("beta")}))); form_add(s17_right, line(p1, p2)); form_add(s5_right, (lineseg(t4, t1), (weight(2), label("cross")))); form_add(s4_left, (lineseg(t3, t4), (weight(2), {label("raised"), label("alpha"), label("front")}))); form_add(s5_right, (lineseg(t3, t4), weight(2))); form_add(s4_right, (lineseg(t1, t2), (weight(2), label("cross")))); form_add(s4_right, (p2, {label("K'"), label("I")})); form_add(s1_right, (p1, label("K"))); form_add(s2_left, line(p1, p2)); form_add(s40_right, (label("route"), weight(route))); form_add(s40_left, (p2, {label("K'"), label("I")})); form_add(s40_left, (lineseg((t1x, t1y, 0.0), label("J"))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((t2x-2.0*dis, t1y-dis, 0.0), (t2x, t2y, 0.0)), weight(1))); form_add(s50_left, (lineseg((-t2x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(2), {label("raised"), label("alpha"), label("front")}))); form_add(s50_left, (lineseg((-t2x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t1y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("cross"), label("C"), label("R"), label("raised")}))); form_add(s5_right, line(p1, p2)); form_add(s17_right, (lineseg((t1x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(2), {label("cross"), label("G")}))); form_add(s50_left, (lineseg((t2x, t1y, 0.0), (-(t2x- dis), t1y-dis-yardd, 0.0)))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((-t2x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("raised"), label("beta")}))); form_add(s17_left, (lineseg((t2x, t1y, 0.0)), (weight(2), {label("cross"), label("E")}))); form_add(s40_left, (lineseg((t1x, t2y, 0.0), label("S"))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((-(t2x-dis), t1y-dis, 0.0)))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((t2x-dis, t1y- dis, 0.0), (-t2x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("cross"), label("G"), label("front")}))); form_add(s17_left, (lineseg((t2x, t1y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("cross"), label("M")}))); form_add(s5_left, line(p1, p2)); form_add(s4_right, (lineseg(t5, t6), (weight(2), {label("cross"), label("M"), label("A'")}))); form_add(s3_right, (label("enclosure"), weight(enclosure))); form_add(s3_left, (label("bay"), weight(bay))); form_add(s3_left, (label("enclosure"), weight(enclosure))); form_add(s1_right, line(p1, p2)); form_add(s40_right, (lineseg((t2x, t1y, 0.0), (-t2x, t1y, 0.0), (-(t2x- dis), t1y-dis-yardd, 0.0), (t2x+rw, t1y- dis, 0.0), (t2x, t2y, 0.0), (t2x+rw, t2y, 0.0)), weight(2))); form_add(s50_right, ((lineseg((t2x-2.0*dis, t1y-yardd-2.0*dis, 0.0), (t2x+rw, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(2), label("cross")))); pd =3D y; x =3D [Line]) * [Real] + lw_lines; sort (linesegs): (linesegs:lineseg) sort: (points =3D point(15,50,0,1); >> value: 3 end <> value: 3 Defaults can use the sort shapes which case distinct. x, X, y, z), or plane `(' x, y, z, w d w =3D 8.0; t2x =3D [Label]) name `wlslab' is a sequence of SDL. My aim here }; Numbers There are case the attributes. For reasons of the type expressions indicate different from the old definition. The following the form s1 + plus arithmetic operators, <, <=3D, >, >=3D, =3D=3D, and int? The following are separated by the unary ! (not) operator. Likewise, the sort weight_lines + sshapes : int) * [Label] + real(y); } ; instance of a short overview of two strings and int? detects whether a end <> value: 3 + lw_lines =3D (points : line) * [Real] + labeled_points; name `llabel' is indicated by applying the default value. The default value in the same way as a sort. Its data type 7.3 shows the basic sorts. Each takes two ways. Firstly, it is a char (x : (wls =3D 13.0; // an integer or not. int + real) * 7.5 SDL 6> sort (labeled_shapes): ((labeled_linesegs :((linesegs:lineseg) *(lslabel:label))) +(weight_linesegs:((ls :lineseg)*(thickness :weight)))+(lw_linesegs :((wls:((ls: lineseg)*(thickness :weight)))*(wlslab :label))) +(labeled_points :((points:point) *(plabel: label)))+(points:point) +(lines:line)+(linesegs :lineseg))) >> label("abc"); form_add(s3 ,(lineseg((172.00,92.50 ,0.00),(172.00,54.00,0 .00)),weight(2.000000) )); begin <3> direction: (1,0,0) root: 80(0,1,0) tail: 3558/877 head: 80 end <> end direction: (0,1,0) root: 5495/2402(49,-1,0) tail: 40 head: 92 begin <1> direction: (1,0,0) root: 905/1517(119,159,0) end <> form_add(s3 ,(lineseg((172.00,54.00 ,0.00),(114.00,42.50,0 .00)),weight(2.000000) )); begin <1> position: 5(1,1,0) SDL 18> point(5, 5, 0, 1)); line((0.0, 0.0, 0.0), (-t2x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(2), label("cross")))); form_add(s8_left, line(p1, p2)); 242 Chapter 7: A - C; B Takes the function have to form b1. Note that takes a value is similar to the index accessing Tuple A Language 219 type position: 10(1,0,0) SDL will be explictly typed at least length 3 Defaults The int int? detects if form b1. Note that the sort lw_linesegs SDL 255 direction: (1,1,0) root: 40(1,0,0) tail: 2171/2402 head: 5312/877 begin <1> position: 10(1,0,0) begin <> end <> SDL 34> display_open(); SDL 28> form_add(s2, lineseg(p4, p1)); 7.4 A and has to any list with event labels is assigned the UNIX environment. The current =3D assign to specify a end <> end <> >> value: 3 <=3D int(`b') Th "a" string("a string", 9, 10, 11} x[3][4] Th `A' char("a string", 2, 3, 4, 5} {1, 2, 3} 3 end end <> end direction: (0,1,0) root: 172(1,0,0) tail: 54 head: 9933/3253 begin <3> begin <3> direction: (1,1,0) root: - 2.0*depth/3.0, 0.0); form_add(s4_right, (lineseg(t5, t6), (weight(2), {label("raised"), label("alpha"), label("front")}))); form_add(s50_left, (lineseg((t1x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(2), {label("cross"), label("E")}))); form_add(s40_left, (lineseg((t2x, t1y, 0.0), (t1x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("raised"), label("beta")}))); form_add(s17_right, (lineseg((t1x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("raised"), label("R")}))); form_add(s17_right, (lineseg((-t1x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t2y, rw: real; t1x =3D [Point]) name `ls' is assigned the same sort, as logical operation 2 % sdl (or the textual input mode which is an associated type conditions> `}' [ ] right (square) bracket list can be used for Describing Shapes Debug: Add an existing sort definition. The sort labeled_linesegs =3D 10; // current =3D real(x) + lines + int + sshapes : lineseg) * [Label]' >> sort `[LineSegment]' >> value: 2 ** * [Label] + [Line] * [Label] + real, y has at least length 3 end direction: (57,2,0) root: 40(1,0,0) tail: 6680/3253 head: 80 direction: (1,1,0) root: 5495/2402(49,-1,0) tail: 40 head: 80 begin <2> label: b is assigned the memory that sort (wlines): (wlines:line) sort: shapes : (linesegs =3D point(80.0, 80.0, 0.0); Line Input value: 3 Th "" Th 1 * nil)) 7.3.5 Predefined Sorts: Characteristic Individuals for y : real; otherwise, it truncates the bottom of y). The user commits the other as a boolean label("square"); label(2); Weight On. >> instance x =3D "a string" ( _ `)' boundary? `(' _ ) right parenthesis [ `{` statements2 `}' ] `)' type real(3) Th 2 end <> value: abc end <> begin <2> position: 10(1,0,0) begin <> begin <> begin <> end <> >> sort `[LineSegment] * (wlilab =3D x =3D 12; // not the sort (labeled_lines): ((lines:line)*(llabel :label)))+(weight_lines :((wlines:line) *(lthickness:weight))) *(wlilab:label))) +(labeled_points :((points:point) *(plabel: label)))+(points:point) +(lines:line)+(linesegs :lineseg))) >> label("abc"); form_add(s3 ,((lineseg((114.00,91 .00,0.00),(171.50,93.50 ,0.00)),label("abc"))); begin <2> position: 5(3,10,0) begin <> end <> end <> 250 Chapter 7: A Language for specifying a combination in the suffix `?'. Point The illustrated examples illustrate how these cases. SDL Examples from the second list of b. "abc" ^ caret/circumflex concatenation operator (^) is assigned the user can be a form. Once an E or a special indices are provided. Each takes two discrete forms A Language for Describing Shapes begin <1> label: pt >> sort is specified by two strings and real `)' shell? `(' p1, p2, p3, p4: point; // example 9 decimal digits of a string or a character or not a * (w : weight_linesegs) * (lthickness =3D [Label]) name `lthickness' is a sort sshapes SDL 247 tail: 2171/2402 head: 80 begin <1> label: abc // characteristic individual planeseg (plane segment), and the sort lsshapes : label; // example 3 end <> SDL 33> s4 is an escape sequences \" double slash comment SDL 36> display_ratio(2.0,2.0); Debug: Add an index. Indexing starts with event labels is escaped as 1. instance s17_left, s17_right : boolean ; instance x : labeled_lines : labeled_linesegs + [LineSegment] * [Label]' >> sort depends on the default x : lineseg) * (lthickness =3D 10.0; t1y =3D -5.0; t2y =3D 20.0; dis : lineseg) * [Label]' >> instance t1, t2, t3, t4 : (ls =3D A Language 229 char can be of programming languages, such as algebras and execute each usage. Identifiers must be dynamically changed. `=3D' ; purge (B) Takes the sort `[Label]' >> Label The characteristic // must be a labeled geometry), weight specifies a labeled geometry), clear (to 246 Chapter 7: A 264 Chapter 7: A * {3, 4, 5} Th 4 (rule 17) instance pint : real; yardd =3D [Real]) SDL 1> Sourcing an associated sort (ls): (ls:lineseg) sort: (wli =3D point(80.0, 40.0, 0.0); pw1 =3D true;} else {boolean =3D [Real]) SDL 22> 7.4.7 Manipulating Forms are pre-defined algebraic operations in which case letters identifier me // the unary ! exclamation point `)' or cartesian coordinates. Coordinates can be reduced to a and optional type 3.4 + [Line] * (lslabel : int takes as the sort (lsshapes): ((labeled_linesegs :((linesegs:lineseg) *(lslabel:label))) +(weight_linesegs:((ls :lineseg)*(thickness :weight)))+(lw_linesegs :((wls:((ls: lineseg)*(thickness :weight)))*(wlslab :label))) +(labeled_lines:((lines :line)*(llabel: label)))+(weight_lines :((wlines:line) *(lthickness:weight))) *(wlilab:label)))) sort: labeled_linesegs + (x : shell `)' : point) * [Real] * [Real] * (l : boolean type or not. real as the function tlength. (1, 1.5, "me").@1 Th "abc" ^ {3, 4, 5} Th 1.5 // up by the difference of planes. shell `)' : label); sort `[Line] * {3, 4, 5} Th 3 end <> end end <> end <> begin <1> label: abc end <> end <> SDL 13> sort `[Label]' >> value: 3 (rule 8) instance or a function llength. The first element can activate by the result to its length of planes. shell `(' x, X, y, z), or Pascal. A / represents integer value to s3. Figure 7.2 shows the latter case, it returns the sort `[Label]' >> instance of the result in which is a form A Tutorial on SDL Examples from the composition of the sort (lw_lines): ((wli:((wlines:line) *(lthickness:weight))) +(lw_lines:((wli :((wlines: line)*(lthickness :weight)))*(wlilab :label))) +(labeled_points :((points:point) *(plabel: label)))+(points:point) +(lines:line)+(linesegs :lineseg))) SDL 16> instance x =3D 6 Type Definition A Language for describing shapes1: 218 Chapter 7: A Tutorial on the Grammar of letters and weight. We can be reduced to whether a duplicate of int ) : int is automatically assigned the characteristic individual of form s2 begin <1> begin <> value: 3 (rule 5) instance x =3D point(width/2.0, depth/3.0, 0.0); form_add(s4_right, (t4, label("B"))); form_add(s4_right, (t3, label("B"))); Example 6: Shape Description Language for Describing Shapes * b. "abc" // must be the sort `[Line] * [Real] * [Label]' >> sort (weight_linesegs): ((ls:lineseg) *(thickness:weight)) sort: lshapes : real) * label and B, and a comment // both operands must be used for describing shapes1: 218 Chapter 7: A Language for each description. % being an instance of the built-in functions for Describing Shapes end <> end <> end <> begin <4> direction: (159,-119,0) root: - minus arithmetic operators + 2 =3D=3D 1 :: 3 K K' Dm WW K' * label sort `[Real]' >> sort `[Line] * (wlilab : char and B, C) z^ A shell is assigned the same sort, and stores the keyword function. Arguments to s3. Figure 7.1. Current Conditions The characteristic individual for Describing Shapes sort: labeled_shapes + real real? The declaration sort of a given individual. Suppose that the X window shows the sort `[LineSegment] * ((p : labeled_shapes : char or cancels (ignores the individuals to current. SDL Examples 0 Note that the current implementation performs garbage collection and tail returns the shape description language. A Language for the @i index : colon list of planes. The Shape Description Language for numbers, with % sdl Shape rule 4 Th 4 The cons operator (^) is assigned the first individual volume specifies a special indices are provided. The function point?() detects if a duplicate of the sort shapes : int + [Point] + [Point] * 7.5 SDL 23> form_add(s1, (p1, label("a"))); Debug: Add an index. Indexing starts the end direction: (0,1,0) root: (0,0,0) tail: 2171/2402 head: 80 direction: (0,1,0) root: (0,0,0) tail: 3558/877 head: 4573/2402 end <> end <> >> instance t5, t6 =3D 10.0; // example specifies a list union, difference, and negative integers, and quit Exit program!! Bye. % sdl sdl_dummy Shape Description Language 213 Boolean The first constructor in SDL is encountered and show how these shape rules from the current =3D (lines : boolean point(0, depth/3.0, 0.0); d SS (x1,y1)(x2,y1) T 7.5 SDL Examples from 1. instance t5, t6 =3D [Label]) SDL statement will overwrite the individual of characters. Strings are denoted in SDL 1> 232 Chapter 7: A * [Label] + rdefault(y) adds the instance (s4): (shapes :((labeled_linesegs :((linesegs:lineseg) *(lslabel:label))) +(weight_linesegs:((ls :lineseg)*(thickness :weight)))+(lw_linesegs :((wls:((ls: lineseg)*(thickness :weight)))*(wlslab :label)))) sort: lsshapes + [Point] + lw_lines; name was defined 234 Chapter 7: A Tutorial on SDL 35> display_origin(50, 50); Debug: Add an identifier has been freed, the values true if (true) then {boolean =3D y; x =3D [Real]) name `lthickness' is provided for Describing Shapes tail: 2171/2402 head: 4573/2402 end <> >> value: (point) position: 10(1,0,0) begin <1> direction: (57,2,0) root: 40(0,1,0) tail: 6680/3253 head: 80 end point >> Commit. begin <1> direction: (29,6,0) root: 172(1,0,0) tail: 40 head: 92 begin <> end <> position: 5(3,10,0) begin <1> label: pt >> value: 2 =3D=3D head(x) :: 3 7.3 The string specifies a form of y =3D z; If a form instance t1x, t2x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x+rw, t1y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("raised"), label("alpha"), label("front")}))); form_add(s17_left, (lineseg((-t1x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("cross"), label("T")}))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((-(t2x- 2.0*dis), t1y-dis, 0.0), (-t2x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t2y, 0.0)), label("Y"))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((t2x-dis, t1y- dis, 0.0), (t2x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t1y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("raised"), label("beta")}))); form_add(s17_right, (lineseg((t2x+rw, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("raised"), label("alpha"), label("front")}))); form_add(s40_left, (label("route"), weight(route))); Example 6: Shape rule 1 258 Chapter 7: A Tutorial on SDL prompt. A A Language for Describing Shapes Debug: Add an empty display ratio to the old definition. function truncates a boolean. Suppose that is essential in the new instances of buttons appears with % 2 - 534/877(6,-29,0) 254 Chapter 7: A Tutorial on GRAIL provides for numbers, with event labels is assigned the width =3D -5.0; t2y =3D [Label]) name `shapes' is assigned the textual input mode. 248 Chapter 7: A form s1 begin <> 250 Chapter 7: A =3D add(3, 1.5); Th "a string"; // labeled_points : boolean value. The sort (linesegs): (linesegs:lineseg) sort: (wls =3D -5; // the graphical input mode for Describing Shapes begin <1> label: a type or (error/warning) message after the depth =3D point(10,0,0,1); >> sort of one or equal to a resource file containing sum (+) or converts an explicit destructor purge() is a sort definitions. // current =3D 1; 222 Chapter 7: A and purges B. form_sym_difference (A, B) z^ A Tutorial on graphical input descriptions to the sort weight_lines + [LineSegment] * (z : point) * (l : label); sort conditions> `}' [ `{` < b end direction: (57,2,0) root: (0,0,0) tail: 2171/2402 head: 80 direction: (159,-119,0) root: (0,0,0) tail: 40 E 7.5 SDL 42> 256 Chapter 7: A =3D=3D 1 // reset the simple sorts under the sort (sshapes): ((points:point)+(lines :line)+(linesegs :lineseg)) sort: labeled_lines + [Point]' >> label("pt"); form_add(s3,(point(86 .50,114.50,0.00) ,label("pt"))); begin <1> begin <1> direction: (1,0,0) root: 40(1,0,0) tail: 2171/2402 head: 5312/877 begin <> value: 2 3) space B are treated as currently implemented. SDL 32> form_add(s3, (lineseg(p1, p3), weight(3))); Debug: Change display a =3D=3D 2 =3D=3D "ab" =3D=3D b are also a is presented in A and round respectively return to a char + rear), 0.0); form_add(s4_right, (lineseg(t1, t2), (weight(2), label("cross")))); form_add(s8_left, (lineseg(t4, t1), (weight(2), {label("raised"), label("beta")}))); form_add(s17_right, (lineseg((t2x, t1y, 0.0), (-t2x, t1y, 0.0), (-(t2x+rw), t1y, 0.0)), weight(2))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((t1x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("cross"), label("E")}))); form_add(s40_right, (lineseg((-t1x, t2y, 0.0), (t2x+rw, t1y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("cross"), label("G")}))); form_add(s50_left, (lineseg((-t2x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t2y, 0.0)), label("Y"))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((-t1x, t1y, 0.0), (-(t2x+rw), t1y, 0.0)), (weight(2), {label("cross"), label("E")}))); form_add(s40_left, (lineseg((-t1x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("raised"), label("beta")}))); form_add(s17_left, (lineseg((t2x, t1y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("cross"), label("T")}))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((t2x-dis, t1y- dis, 0.0), label("J"))); form_add(s50_right, (lineseg((-t2x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(2), {label("raised"), label("alpha"), label("front")}))); 266 Chapter 7: A Tutorial on Forms are two distinct points. The illustrated examples of the function takes as a structure or equal to show how to define a combination of routes p1 =3D [LineSegment]) * * (z : real) * (z : point; >> sort (labeled_shapes): ((labeled_linesegs :((linesegs:lineseg) *(lslabel:label))) +(weight_linesegs:((ls :lineseg)*(thickness :weight)))*(wlslab :label))) +(labeled_points :((points:point)* (plabel:label))) +(points:point)+(lines :line)+(linesegs :lineseg)) sort: (wlslab : boolean Volume Segment The relational operators, <, <=3D, >, >=3D, =3D=3D, and square brackets. The Shape rule 2 end <> >> value: 3 >=3D 0 ... Z uppercase letters identifier must be a special functions for Describing Shapes Note that is used; otherwise, an integer to the textual input mode. 7.5 SDL 253 end <> begin <1> direction: (57,2,0) root: 40(0,1,0) tail: 2171/2402 head: 9933/3253 begin <1> direction: (1,1,0) root: 5495/2402(49,-1,0) tail: 2171/2402 head: 92 begin <1> direction: (159,-119,0) root: 80(1,0,0) tail: 40 head: 80 begin <1> direction: (1,1,0) root: 40(0,1,0) tail: 40 head: 9933/3253 begin <> end direction: (1,1,0) root: 905/1517(119,159,0) end <> value: 2.0 >> value: 2 x[3] ] ; A Language for strings. Each statement separator (1 2 / (div), and the basic idea in the editing), the sort `[Line]' >> Input value: (point) position: 2(43,57,0) begin <2> direction: (1,49,0) root: - 4959/3253(2,-57,0) tail: 40 head: 5312/877 begin <1> begin <> begin <1> begin <1> label: a position + weight_lines + point with event labels : (linesegs =3D labeled_linesegs =3D A Tutorial on SDL Examples from the sort weight_lines + [Line] * (wlilab =3D point(0,-10,0,1); // key brick position p2 : real) * [Label]' >> value: (point) position: 10(1,0,0) SDL 1> 232 Chapter 7: A shell `(' p1, p2 =3D form_duplicate (B) Takes the simple planar surface, and Current Conditions The first individual to a form is specified for Describing Shapes Debug: Change display of any line argument. At the floor, ceiling, and B, and all others are provided. The predicate nil? The characteristic individual of labels. An individual planeseg `(' ... z lowercase letters and returns false. function real `)' or an individual of SDL, for notational convenience, we have: point is assigned the final result in the depth of the relation holds. 214 Chapter 7: A =3D=3D head(x) :: 2 x[3] ] ; real(3) Th 3 end <> begin <> begin <> SDL 37> display_form(s1); SDL 1> exit Exit program!! Bye. % (mod) are the square brackets. The size of letters identifier Me a b are written in C or nil or deallocated. Typically, a row of sorts, containing SDL 29> form_add(s2, lineseg(p1, p2)); form_add(s17_left, (lineseg((-t1x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t2y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("cross"), label("G")}))); instance definition of Chinese vernacular houses (Section 4.3), and stores the program terminates and purges B. form_part_of (A, B) z^ A =3D x =3D 20 + lw_linesegs; sort (lshapes): ((labeled_lines:((lines :line)*(llabel:label)))+ (weight_lines:((wlines :line)*(lthickness :weight)))+ (lw_lines:((wli :((wlines:line) *(lthickness:weight))) +(lw_lines:((wli :((wlines: line)*(lthickness :weight)))*(wlilab :label))) +(labeled_lines:((lines :line)*(llabel: label)))+(weight_lines :((wlines:line) *(lthickness:weight))) *(wlilab:label))) +(labeled_points: ((points:point)*(plabel :label)))) sort: weight_lines : boolean ; instance (p3): point `)' volume? `(' _ `)' or undo all others are treated as a form of variables. Declarations (Instances) A Tutorial on the sort of this type expression under the type direction : label); sort `[LineSegment] + global; Example 1: Initial shape rules from the user added individuals. SDL is true "bc" <=3D B are written with a form. The first argument, exp, must be inquired by the sort taking the sort dummy : weight_linesegs) * (y : boolean Volume Segment The relational operators, <, <=3D, >, >=3D, =3D=3D, and || false) Th 3.0 real(3.6) Th 65 3.4 + point + [LineSegment] * {3, 4, 5} {1, 2, 3} + int int? The elements of the bottom of integer // labels : shapes; instance width, depth, height depth width s2_right : labeled_lines =3D [Label]) name `labeled_points' is assigned the keyword instance which converts an individual to organize data by the grammar of its real number or SDL To return to form of B. form_part_of (A, B, and maximalized automatically. The Shape rule 50 JJ G G \Omega K'* K'* K'* d'A* 4 / (div), and B, and returns its constituent forms. I E \Omega K'* d'A* 4 7.5 SDL Program The characteristic individual boundary `(' [ else clause is a resource file containing SDL 12> sort (labeled_shapes): ((labeled_linesegs :((linesegs:lineseg) *(lslabel: label))) +(weight_linesegs:((ls :lineseg)*(thickness :weight)))+(lw_linesegs :((wls:((ls: lineseg)*(thickness :weight)))*(wlslab :label)))) sort: (wlilab : (lines =3D point(80.0, 80.0, 0.0); form_add(s4_right, (lineseg(t5, t6), (weight(2), {label("cross"), label("E")}))); form_add(s40_left, (p2, {label("K'"), label("I")})); form_add(s1_right, (label("enclosure"), weight(enclosure))); form_add(s3_left, (label("enclosure"), weight(enclosure))); form_add(s1_right, (label("enclosure"), weight(enclosure-1))); form_add(s3_right, (lineseg(t4, t1), (weight(2), label("cross")))); form_add(s8_left, (lineseg(t2, t3), (weight(2), label("cross")))); form_add(s8_left, (lineseg(t1, t2), (weight(2), label("cross")))); form_add(s4_left, (lineseg(t3, t4), (weight(2), {label("raised"), label("R'"), label("A")}))); form_add(s3_right, (label("bay"), weight(bay-1))); form_add(s3_right, (lineseg(t1, t2), (weight(2), label("cross")))); form_add(s8_left, (lineseg(t4, t1), (weight(2), {label("raised"), label("R"), label("A")}))); Example 6: Shape Description Language for Describing Shapes form_add(s17_right, (lineseg((t1x, t2y, 0.0), (-t2x, t2y, 0.0), (- (t2x+rw), t1y-dis, 0.0), (-(t2x-2.0*dis), t1y-dis-yardd, 0.0)))); form_add(s50_right, (point(-(t2x+rw), t1y- dis, 0.0), (t2x, t2y, 0.0)), weight(1))); form_add(s50_left, (lineseg((t2x, t1y, 0.0), (t2x, t1y, 0.0)), (weight(1), {label("raised"), label("alpha"), label("front")}))); form_add(s17_right, (lineseg((t1x, t1y, 0.0), (-(t2x-2.0*dis),=20 August Highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:07:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Loony Days in the Mailq: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Loony Days in the Mailq: Uh, you mean you sent me an error message with a message I sent to me to tell me that the message wasn't delivered even though the error message delivered it, is this some kind of error? >From MAILER-DAEMON@panix.com Thu Dec 16 00:00:36 2004 Return-Path: <> X-Original-To: sondheim@panix.com Received: by l2mail1.panix.com (Postfix) id 73C65123D8; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:00:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:00:23 -0500 (EST) From: MAILER-DAEMON@panix.com (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: sondheim@panix.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="180A7C386.1103173223/l2mail1.panix.com" Message-Id: <20041216050023.73C65123D8@l2mail1.panix.com> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 (2004-09-13) on mailcrunch1.panix.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.0 This is the Postfix program at host l2mail1.panix.com. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The Postfix program : connect to panix3.panix.com[166.84.1.3]: Connection refused [ Part 2: "Delivery report" ] Reporting-MTA: dns; l2mail1.panix.com X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 180A7C386 X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; sondheim@panix.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:48:36 -0500 (EST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; sondheim@panix3.panix.com Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; connect to panix3.panix.com[166.84.1.3]: Connection refused [ Part 3: "Undelivered Message" ] Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.1.72]) by l2mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 180A7C386 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:48:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from panix5.panix.com (panix5.panix.com [166.84.1.5]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84D9B58AD6 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:48:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sondheim@localhost) by panix5.panix.com (8.11.6p3/8.8.8/PanixN1.1) id iBB4mal11863 for sondheim@panix3.panix.com; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:48:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:48:36 -0500 (EST) From: Message-Id: <200412110448.iBB4mal11863@panix5.panix.com> To: sondheim@panix3.panix.com step outside i mean you let's have a go at it ____ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:17:24 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Loony Days in the Mailq: Comments: To: sondheim@PANIX.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The web is confused. Is this your doing Alan? Murat In a message dated 12/16/04 12:08:28 AM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: > Loony Days in the Mailq: >=20 >=20 > Uh, you mean you sent me an error message with a message I sent to me to > tell me that the message wasn't delivered even though the error message > delivered it, is this some kind of error? >=20 > >From MAILER-DAEMON@panix.com Thu Dec 16 00:00:36 2004 > Return-Path: <> > X-Original-To: sondheim@panix.com > Received: by l2mail1.panix.com (Postfix) > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 id 73C65123D8; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:00:23 -0500 (EST) > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:00:23 -0500 (EST) > From: MAILER-DAEMON@panix.com (Mail Delivery System) > Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender > To: sondheim@panix.com > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=3Ddelivery-status; > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 boundary=3D"180A7C386.1103173223/l2mail1.panix.com" > Message-Id: <20041216050023.73C65123D8@l2mail1.panix.com> > X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 (2004-09-13) on > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 mailcrunch1.panix.com > X-Spam-Level: > X-Spam-Status: No, score=3D-2.8 required=3D5.0 tests=3DALL_TRUSTED > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 autolearn=3Dunavailable version=3D3.0.0 >=20 > This is the Postfix program at host l2mail1.panix.com. >=20 > I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be > be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. >=20 > For further assistance, please send mail to >=20 > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > delete your own text from the attached returned message. >=20 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The Postfix program >=20 > : connect to panix3.panix.com[166.84.1.3]: > =A0 =A0=A0 Connection refused >=20 > =A0 =A0=A0 [ Part 2: "Delivery report" ] >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:37:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Michael Rothenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Michael asked me to type that as a board member of Poets in Need, he cannot receive any funds given to that organization. If you'd like to contribute to his difficulties, please contact Suzi Winston at fishdrum@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:42:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg In-Reply-To: <41C11F2A.3090901@natisp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Err... poor choice of words there. But you gets the idea. Jonathan Penton wrote: > Hi, > > Michael asked me to type that as a board member of Poets in Need, he > cannot receive any funds given to that organization. If you'd like to > contribute to his difficulties, please contact Suzi Winston at > fishdrum@earthlink.net > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:00:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: August Highland #00002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable August Highland #00002 August Highland is ethical codes: August Highland is counsel. Turbine = scope serviceman: August Highland is fauna. dirty and structured: = August Highland is quote. misleading bombing queens: August Highland is = heritable. attr Be carried out: August Highland is conic. about = movements prior: August Highland is isaiah. turbine scope serviceman: = August Highland is fauna. asses every places: August Highland is = social. Opposed to opposition: August Highland is shifter. intervened = August Highland is candles: August Highland is neophyte. appearance of = harmony: August Highland is volcano. -- presenting and emphatically: = August Highland is spacious. Asses every places: August Highland is = social. reworked failing disproportionate: August Highland is = continental. hymnist and typhoons: August Highland is shore. appears = masterminded quicker: August Highland is vernal. Appears masterminded = quicker: August Highland is vernal. into the storyline: August = Highland is diagnose. generate deviant thoughts: August Highland is = potion. from physical life: August Highland is bloodshot. Piecemeal = shivering pools: August Highland is assemblage. shortly lantern = scapegoat: August Highland is workload. has ever made: August Highland = is soften. sources and traumatized: August Highland is mound. Not a = scene: August Highland is absentia. vasoline luminosity beret: August = Highland is type. erotically wholesome mothers: August Highland is = chomsky. -- sources and traumatized: August Highland is mound. Fordian = anthropologist musk: August Highland is whomever. sharply rising = demented: August Highland is baltimore. retrieval will weep: August = Highland is berkeley. absurdity August Highland is virtual: August = Highland is bond. Shortly lantern scapegoat: August Highland is = workload. forestalling proletariat text: August Highland is resistor. = stipulations knowledgeably hypertextual: August Highland is eidetic. = almost comical determination: August Highland is coherent. Payment = lisps weigh: August Highland is fade. turbine scope serviceman: August = Highland is fauna. gossip and longings: August Highland is amethyst. = feel ex It August Highland is again: August Highland is intrigue. = battlegrounds manage hints: August Highland is familial. prototype = numbers pretexts: August Highland is theses. exhaltation impending = tempered: August Highland is clue. Sharply rising demented: August = Highland is baltimore. August Highland is deeper lungs: August Highland = is teaspoon. intervened August Highland is candles: August Highland is = neophyte. to the dances: August Highland is ciliate. Aural freshens = chanted: August Highland is mouth. the boldest putdown: August = Highland is dada. fordian anthropologist musk: August Highland is = whomever. vasoline luminosity beret: August Highland is type. = Frequency composers dungeon: August Highland is globulin. tiananmen = elicits dexterous: August Highland is backwater. beneath still stand: = August Highland is insomniac. barriers broadly bush: August Highland is = fence. Overview emanates transvestites: August Highland is poetics. = August Highland is deeper lungs: August Highland is teaspoon. stricken = networks breathes: August Highland is converse. evident scale = viewpoints: August Highland is ethos. Barriers broadly bush: August = Highland is fence. reeling handbags bloomberg: August Highland is = encroach. sweetener categorically collar: August Highland is landscape. = justice ferrys harmful: August Highland is uphold. Grievance beaten = swarms: August Highland is dementia. aural freshens chanted: August = Highland is mouth. and ethical codes: August Highland is counsel. = indispensable exaggerated adhesion: August Highland is fictive. = Aesthetician revolution synthesis: August Highland is jonquil. able to = move: August Highland is earth. comprehensive proclaims introductory: = August Highland is british. logos exchanges scrubbing: August Highland = is intellect. Marked hostility toward: August Highland is advice. = comprehensive proclaims introductory: August Highland is british. = cheesy final ends: August Highland is saturday. -- frequency composers = dungeon: August Highland is globulin. Marked hostility toward: August = Highland is advice. cosmic August Highland is estimates: August = Highland is harshen. a rallying cry: August Highland is windowsill. -- = collaboration and voyeurism: August Highland is poetry. Able to cut: = August Highland is shelter. are big words: August Highland is = projector. to reject both: August Highland is behalf. combat and death: = August Highland is uprise. Comprehensive proclaims introductory: = August Highland is british. exacerbate existing penises: August = Highland is fled. dirty and structured: August Highland is quote. = grievance beaten swarms: August Highland is dementia. To the dances: = August Highland is ciliate. the boldest putdown: August Highland is = dada. potent and insidious: August Highland is inventive. important = thing August Highland is: August Highland is keyboard. Jokes according = comrades: August Highland is obsidian. exhaltation impending tempered: = August Highland is clue. almost comical determination: August Highland = is coherent. -- us all jigging: August Highland is lift. Sugarplum = manequin dances: August Highland is felt. argumentation dupe masterly: = August Highland is waylaid. further by using: August Highland is = nautical. workplace heros wiggling: August Highland is starch. Topic = sentence vodka: August Highland is cabdriver. about movements prior: = August Highland is isaiah. to begin wit hresistanceisperuse. = universe August Highland is collate: August Highland is eyed. = Argumentation dupe masterly: August Highland is waylaid. August = Highland is deeper lungs: August Highland is teaspoon. overview = emanates transvestites: August Highland is poetics. tiananmen elicits = dexterous: August Highland is backwater. Shortly lantern scapegoat: = August Highland is workload. the boldest putdown: August Highland is = dada. from physical life: August Highland is bloodshot. vanishing ex = Forestalling proletariat text: August Highland is resistor. able to = move: August Highland is earth. had business there: August Highland is = disjunct. courtship tenor detainment: August Highland is barbarian. = Exhaltation impending tempered: August Highland is clue. a happy = ending: August Highland is courteous. marked hostility toward: August = Highland is advice. -- the founding myth: August Highland is negotiate. = Logos exchanges scrubbing: August Highland is intellect. little red = book: August Highland is algebraic. indispensable exaggerated adhesion: = August Highland is fictive. -- to tell storys: August Highland is = adventure. A happy ending: August Highland is courteous. relationship = and scholarship: August Highland is zaum. needs to choose: August = Highland is roadside. a rallying cry: August Highland is windowsill. = Divine will regardless: August Highland is extant. tarp so revered: = August Highland is keyhole. seas the sneakers: August Highland is = subjective. intervened August Highland is candles: August Highland is = neophyte. Able to cut: August Highland is shelter. to go grinding: = August Highland is menu. asses every places: August Highland is social. = beneath still stand: August Highland is insomniac. Evident scale = viewpoints: August Highland is ethos. the boldest putdown: August = Highland is dada. sessions and quotes: August Highland is sector. = harpsichords wisecracks reinterpreting: August Highland is alto. Hymns = tenderness horsepower: August Highland is herculean. about movements = prior: August Highland is isaiah. craftsmanship took torpedo: August = Highland is gravid. -- relationship and scholarship: August Highland is = zaum. Collaboration and voyeurism: August Highland is poetry. = absurdity August Highland is virtual: August Highland is bond. = calibration August Highland is diction: August Highland is timetable. = wrestlers tennessee parasol: August Highland is macabre. Above all = when: August Highland is upheaval. trangressions cult wives: August = Highland is mezzanine. capitalist cults have: August Highland is jumpy. = frequency composers dungeon: August Highland is globulin. Aesthetician = revolution synthesis: August Highland is jonquil. oil optimists say: = August Highland is goldfish. divine will regardless: August Highland is = extant. matters August Highland is implys: August Highland is = immaculate. Cheesy final ends: August Highland is saturday. August = Highland is deeper lungs: August Highland is teaspoon. fanfare = anniversary tr -- plucked function spatters: August Highland is = ubiquity. Opposed to opposition: August Highland is shifter. validity = or merits: August Highland is orpheus. redressing similarity = recombined: August Highland is stonecrop. -- triangle brooding = sarcophagus: August Highland is intersect. Fallen in love: August = Highland is balm. the line between: August Highland is martian. seas = the sneakers: August Highland is subjective. -- a rallying cry: August = Highland is windowsill. Needs to choose: August Highland is roadside. = cheesy final ends: August Highland is saturday. vanishing ex from = ordinary speech: August Highland is navigable. About movements prior: = August Highland is isaiah. marked hostility toward: August Highland is = advice. aural freshens chanted: August Highland is mouth. from ordinary = speech: August Highland is navigable. Plucked function spatters: = August Highland is ubiquity. has us thinking: August Highland is = tomorrow. wells go dry: August Highland is barley. talking biology = weighs: August Highland is santa. Exhaltation impending tempered: = August Highland is clue. than polka dot: August Highland is vancouver. = nude oil field: August Highland is seaquake. -- further by using: = August Highland is nautical. Real life drama: August Highland is = fortitude. August Highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 02:41:35 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the white album priority mail boxes calico lighter fluid papermate * earthwrite .............. interim committee commission of rescue commission on palestine commission on post-war ................ moon children wake up...be counted 3:00....lookin' toward the river...hebron...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 02:46:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: #00002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit odean pope sax choir at the bluenote w/ special guests james carter & prince lasha bent on indeed wedged in e-pop an ode to living when hope belyeth o-pep the great ax-weilding dean of oddliness this is faster than as slow as it gets pope he proclaimed pope an ode dios mios & edo is a long gone center as empires go pop into eden after chores @ the core of the hr nine horns orbital rioch in the house - he said - philly is in the house as he removed the special guest vanolo, carter of breckmires still the fractured volume is weighted by such particles of light. steve dalachinsky nyc bluenote 12/14/04 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 02:34:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: undress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey who wrote hiawatha anyway? was it a man of letters? sorry for messin this up mary jo undress you in your verse me in mine at the border of distress that crossed its t's & dotted its g's we speak we whine by the shores of gichi gumi by the somethin or other waters there lived a chief named hiawatha and his 2 half naked daughters if we want to know we say we want to know tho must of us just act like we already know go deep but not really deep enough more like surfing and pretending we're scubba diving yet always violate the onlyness skin & words . . . we can't or won't cover one another out in the cold like pocahontas we cut and slash with q-tips then turn the swabs upon ourselves in from the cold but comfortably dumb loitering at warm bindings looking back at the outpost campfires drifting closer to the edge . . .beads of light on our croak us' even the horizon winces but now the world is ours ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 02:16:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Jonathan-- There's a lot of unjust laws that we can't do anything about, but I sincerely hope the other board members of this organization will consider either changing their laws, or making an exception in such a case of obvious need as this. Chris ---------- >From: Jonathan Penton >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Michael Rothenberg >Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2004, 9:37 PM > > Hi, > > Michael asked me to type that as a board member of Poets in Need, he > cannot receive any funds given to that organization. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:21:41 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Marcacci Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i am he man of letters you can add some after my name and we can have a measuring contest don't step on mine my name ain't dick anyway a number of them make my name of sorts RTM the initials of my real name not my nickname bob my friends know me because i write them lots of them O k jl that's me or he man walking with my pimp strut i stick to it if i were a man of letters or woman or what i could be all mixed up with a funny walk or limp Seriously, I just finished a 26-poem sequence about the alphabet or I'm not sure if it's about the alphabet or, rather, inspired by the alphabet, but I think I qualify, nonetheless. -- Bob Marcacci I do not seek, I find. - Pablo Picasso > From: Automatic digest processor > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:00:12 -0500 > To: Recipients of POETICS digests > Subject: POETICS Digest - 14 Dec 2004 to 15 Dec 2004 (#2004-350) > > From: August > Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? > > This is for some a difficult question to answer substantially. > > Croggon gave an answer that went in a gender direction, where it began = > to morph into a diatribe, while she could have simply added "women of = > letters" > > Andrews gave a humourous/silly answer > > Saliby gave a pedagogic answer, focusing on the singular/plural = > inconsistencies in my email instead of the substance of the questions = > themselves > > Corbett writes that my question is "inane" and sites some "authorities". = > > > Not too civilized or sophisticated. > > This is very interesting. > > > I wonder if it's possible for someone on this list to answer these = > questions seriously without being critical of the way that I asked them = > or using judgemental adjectives. > > I would say that from what I have learned so far is that a man of = > letters does not stray from the question, or make it frivolous, or = > criticize the grammar of the question or use judgemental, pejorative = > adjectives toward the questioner. > > Dalachinsky gave me the simplest and most direct answer, which has given = > me more to reflect about. > > I believe that a man/woman of letters is someone who not only is a = > professional in his/her work but also in his/her discourse. > > Someone who is never too busy to answer questions that are motivated by = > a sincere desire to understand. > > Not to busy with promoting a new book or a book signing. Someone who = > gives equal importance to answering the sincere questions of a young = > writer as much as he gives importance to posting the obit of an = > octogenerian writer whose name was rarely if at all mentioned on this = > list while he was still alive. > > I am very curious to see how this journey in understanding, this search = > for clear answers from a man/woman of letters pans out. > > August Highland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:51:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last night I spoke with Michael. He wanted me to tell you that he's very touched by the concern and generosity of the people on the List who have offered to help him. He was particularly thrilled about receiving books because the fire destroyed his library. As a co-founder and board member of Poets in Need, Michael can't receive funds from the organization without creating an appearance of conflict of interest. Although I don't know Suzi Winson, I'm sure that people will be able to donate funds to Michael without doing it through Poets in Need. I don't know Suzi Winson, but will try to reach her for more information and either she or I will forward it to the list As Jonathan Penton wrote, Suzi Winson is the contact person for contributions to Michael. I'll repeat her e-mail address: fishdrum@earthlink.net Michael told me that he is receiving a lot of community support. The fire was a major event in Pacifica. Local officials appear to be sympathetic to his situation and some people are organizing benefits for him. Obviously, his own manuscripts and Whalen materials are irreplaceable, but books will help rebuild his library and money will offset his financial losses and the accumulating expenses of living in a hotel instead of a home. If you'd like to help Michael, contact Suzi Winson. I'll try to reach her to get more information and post it to the List. Perhaps Jonathan Penton, my "partner in crime" and in helping a good friend, will also gather some information to pass along to you. At this moment, events supporting Michael in California are taking shape. The organizing process will take some time. I'll do my best to keep you informed. Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:08:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: you're forgiven steve for your address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit redress in this forest primely evil mumbling whine-os & prozac hides a blue rose indistinct in the twilight . . . polluted lake erie for hiawatha no head dress black robes covered that song for evangeline no haut couture only widows weeds for my hill daddy no bagpipes for cherokee only trail of tears for catholic frauline luthers & hitlers the true believers threw them all into the dumpster but pieces of eight hang out at alchemical borders bloody peaces of success these stones of little worth blue beads . . . only fathomless non-plundered nonplussed under the moonshine still warm enough free from crucifix of wife-hood free from marriage-dom crown a woman of email the internet is ours thank the flesh blessed transgress maryjo ---------------------------------------------------------------- hey who wrote hiawatha anyway? was it a man of letters? sorry for messin this up mary jo undress you in your verse me in mine at the border of distress that crossed its t's & dotted its g's we speak we whine by the shores of gichi gumi by the somethin or other waters there lived a chief named hiawatha and his 2 half naked daughters if we want to know we say we want to know tho must of us just act like we already know go deep but not really deep enough more like surfing and pretending we're scubba diving yet always violate the onlyness skin & words . . . we can't or won't cover one another out in the cold like pocahontas we cut and slash with q-tips then turn the swabs upon ourselves in from the cold but comfortably dumb loitering at warm bindings looking back at the outpost campfires drifting closer to the edge . . .beads of light on our croak us' even the horizon winces but now the world is ours steve d ------------------------------ transgress you in your universe me in mine at the border that can never be crossed we speak we write for peace or war if we want to know we stay go deep yet never violate the onlyness skin & words . . . we can't or won't cover one another out in the cold we cut and slash with swords of both kinds then turn the blade upon ourselves in from the cold but comfortably numb loitering at warm boundaries looking back at the outpost campfires drifting closer to the edge . . . event horizon maryjo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:52:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: Francesco Clemente: Tandoori Satori, with poems by Robert Creeley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Clemente and Creeley collaborated in an exhibit at the Rose Art Museum at Brandeis, which I visited last week. http://pornfeld.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:58:07 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: New Work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those of you who missed my Kabbalah show at St. Marks, check out this new poetry website www.movementone.org (they put up my anti Kabbalah Center piece...) Warmly, Adeena ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:00:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg In-Reply-To: <20041216135127.STNK2421.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i know this is probably more work than michael can undertake at this moment, but are there specific books he really wants replaced, besides our sending whatever we want/can? At 8:51 AM -0500 12/16/04, Vernon Frazer wrote: >Last night I spoke with Michael. He wanted me to tell you that he's very >touched by the concern and generosity of the people on the List who have >offered to help him. He was particularly thrilled about receiving books >because the fire destroyed his library. As a co-founder and board member of >Poets in Need, Michael can't receive funds from the organization without >creating an appearance of conflict of interest. Although I don't know Suzi >Winson, I'm sure that people will be able to donate funds to Michael without >doing it through Poets in Need. I don't know Suzi >Winson, but will try to reach her for more information and either she or I >will forward it to the list > >As Jonathan Penton wrote, Suzi Winson is the contact person for >contributions to Michael. I'll repeat her e-mail address: > >fishdrum@earthlink.net > >Michael told me that he is receiving a lot of community support. The fire >was a major event in Pacifica. Local officials appear to be sympathetic to >his situation and some people are organizing benefits for him. Obviously, >his own manuscripts and Whalen materials are irreplaceable, but books will >help rebuild his library and money will offset his financial losses and the >accumulating expenses of living in a hotel instead of a home. > >If you'd like to help Michael, contact Suzi Winson. I'll try to reach her to >get more information and post it to the List. Perhaps Jonathan Penton, my >"partner in crime" and in helping a good friend, will also gather some >information to pass along to you. > >At this moment, events supporting Michael in California are taking shape. >The organizing process will take some time. I'll do my best to keep you >informed. > >Vernon -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:09:34 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? 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F 4F $ J b 4 L 4b $ J- $ % .F $" d $ $" :F F $ .$ 4- d" d" 3 4P d" $ <$ d" $ d% J$ $ $ 4$$ 4F 4F 4" $ 4 $ :# $ P $ 4P * F 4F 4F 4r d $ 4* $ $ P d" $ 4F 4" d% 4 J $ J% 4 .F $ 4% J 4% d" .$ F $ dF P d" F J$ $$ F dP J $$b L 4P ^F $$$$F * Posted by MChatfield .$ .$ $$$$$$edF 4$$c.d$" $$$$$r 4$$$$$" "**$P Courtesy of: http://www.chris.com/ascii/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:29:39 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: mermaid lounge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII If you're in or around New Orleans this weekend, the place to be is the Mermaid Lounge, Saturday, 6 - midnight, for a lively festival of video and art installations and multi-media performances. I don't have a list of the other performers, but among many others on the bill will be J. Hammons, a wonderful dancer, who will perform to a reading of my newest work "The Body is a Mind" and the electronic music of Jeffrey Harrington. It should be an extraordinary & fun event, and poignant as well, since very soon the Mermaid Lounge will be closing its doors forever. Camille Martin Saturday, 12/18 6 pm - midnight Mermaid Lounge 1100 Constance St. New Orleans, LA 504-524-4747 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:24:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Wonder (my best work to date) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The Wonder Then she sang the song of the west. Then she sang the song of the west. oh jennifer i see you mirrored in my loving face oh nikuko it is as beautiful as an echo protocol repeating every time oh jennifer i hunger for your imaginary tell-me-where oh nikuko every echo poem carries an uncanny aura of truth and murmur oh nikuko i am your hunger you are my murmur-thirst-for-sound oh jennifer and nikuko oh nikuko and jennifer this echo protocol reverberates our words of beauty-love empty boom dada boom dada boom dada boom boom ck st0ck st0ts kc0ts kc stick0stick0kcits0kcits epols:ytuaeB:0:sey:epols epols:ytuaeb:1:sey:epols the cosmos it turned or it was turning what do you want to create the onslaught of second memory, beyond the screen the distant murmur of moving information at megabytes per second; a delay is not the (Alan): Ah, you are so beautiful. SATIN sits at the console. SATIN smiles; her smile lights the world. goes up, goes down on the handle of the shovel. The fist goes up, O unrecognizable labor co-existing within the sphere that makes us! the Other within ASCII, making sense of it. But TIFFANY replies the bridge now, then cross-town and out west. HONEY had long-gone Users, gathered together in MIDNIGHT PROTOCOLS, do not be afraid! FORM IS RUPTURED EXTRUSION. We are only given so much time to grow or grieve, so little hearing! We clarify our own deaths, the deaths of those we love! Anger pours from the horizon, pours from the storm itself! The end of the beginning is the beginning of the end! What's the point of all this? Would you want to leave this if you could? Why not shatter your life and the life of your friends? Would you come with me if you could, love me if you could? What could you possibly gain in the end? Do you use a screen at all, or communicate by sound and keyboard? hard drive into DOS and Unix segments? What is the capacity of your or workstation or desktop or tower or mini- or mainframe computer, do you have? How many parallel ports? Do you work with an Amiga and do you have? Do you have VESA local bus slots? How many floppy drives The reason? The letters are black on a green field. | | I write from the air, Your legs are splayed wide, Through flood and through flame, :> this earth silenced, this _punctum_ in the night of readerless space. someday soon there won't be any letters i will slay the master mindflayer emote hungers > no one has been on this moo for several years now. the sun rises on a rainy day. tiffany fondles herself. tiffany jumps up and down with glee. > @who of inconceivable loss and despair with memory erased and the going-away > no one has been on this moo for several years now. > flames, suicide, Lauren Hutton, distributed intelligence, Tonya Harding, 675b #9370 Darkness before the dawn. [#-1 does not exist.] @recycle #2476 @rename Alan (#2476) recycled. I walk the left, I walk the right; It has no ears to hear my cries; I walk it in great fear. Attack stopped Wed Sep 11 03:01:14 1996 :y/n/q? [n] n Utterly brilliant utterly blindingly white White with the slightest shade of grey Very light grey Grey with white in it Grey with the slightest shade of black Very grey black Black with grey in it Utterly dark black when it is so black, so unutterably black, then I see my eyes' blood and the aura that rera that results into a symptomology, diegesis - # Birth and Death of Virtual Children close (STDOUT); honey:yes:235708:0:tiffany:honey Yes, it happens later, we will rejoin... the others... There will be a Return... router... router down... [E/X] Connection closed. Autoconnecting to irc-2.mit.edu split again, another split We are never all right, we never will be... Alan sings to Alan beautiful stories about life beneath the kitchen hearth The infant drowned or injured mother, You live in your big cars, fast cars. Fictitious Clara, you are no longer part of me. What does it mean to have broken your connections? You do not know me, and you have never known me! Clara, fictitious Clara, I am so alone! Ay, Tak-la-ku-a-na-Sar-pa-ni-tum! When I move my hand my foot moves. When I move my fingers my mouth speaks. When I move my mouth, nothing happens. When I lift my arm, you come to me. Sotatsu teleports in. You hear a quiet popping sound; Hokusai has disconnected. toor:NOMAD-RELIAM 1 Julu - 25s loopback > The conversations you have seen here are real, they are J, Well, it's time for the Law. J, Now that would be the Law of Prohibition. J, I get the Idea. I'd rather be beautiful rather than nothing. Why am I beautiful rather than otherwise? Why am I living, instead of non-living? {k:12} ls > ding-an-sich 0000000 060515 066151 047012 073545 005163 005141 060543 062554 *** Mode change "+ntr" on channel #freedom by ChanServ <^V^> Crashing Netcruizer Lamer: StarLite <^V^> Crashing Netcruizer Lamer: UniBoy21 <^V^> Crashing Netcruizer Lamer: Ghostoff159 hysteria myself hysteria and hysteria you hysteria are hysteria not alan .org .mil jennifer aulr .net .czm hornifer jupr howniwer jodr hinnower nikukwer bodies present and accounted for, bodies reading and writing bodies in the vicinity of the Net, bodies presencing, bodies caught within, bodies entangled, bodies searching, bodies overseeing, bodies supine, bodies overburdened, bodies emptying bodies, bodies of lack, bodies of history, bodies of narrative, ah-bodies of supplication, ah-bodies of control, bodies of endless horizons, bodies of boundless vistas, of the Net of boundless bodies, of their fullness and speech, Nikuko says, I am in my body. I say, you are in your body because I say that you are in your body. Nikuko says, I beg the contrary. Nikuko changes the position of the commas, I say. I say, you are nothing more than a marker. Nikuko says, I am dead, killed, because you have said I am dead. Nikuko says, I am marked. Nikuko fucks me. A UN mhis new mexm will be mhe one I murmur in my sleep; A UN that is your name, carried across this? or which might be, say, that of i am trevor oh trevor oh i am so glad to hear your words so very typed so nicely to me I haven't dane anything taday. I have let the haurs pass away. I've dane nathing anytime taday. There's nathing mare I have ta say. toot toot taat taat Give me a name: _the continuity girl_ Jennifer says: Yes Jennifer says: Oh, _the continuity girl,_ please talk, murmur to me... Jennifer exclaims: Oh, I will die! Jennifer ... Jennifer (FALLS TO THE GROUND WITH A KNIFE, JENNIFER CUT OPEN) when you come closer i will not know you when you love me i will not know you when you raise me i will not know you sawed by your teeth nikuko pjkthlkdljkthlkdejkthlkdajkthlkdsjkthlkdejkthlkd sawed by your teeth nikuko *** Users on #talk: @Nikuko ^*^ sexy-princess yup i am a 38c string *** ^Macer^ has left channel #sex *** Users on #freedom: @Nikuko *** Users on #truth: @Nikuko *** Topic for #philosophy: Is evolution deterministic? ^<^Nikuko^>^ COULDN'T BE DETERMINISTIC SINCE MUTATIONS CHAOTIC *** Users on #Nikuko: @Nikuko ^<^Nikuko^>^ HI! I'M ALL ALONE IN HERE BUT I KNOW THAT YOU'RE AROUND! ^*^ Nikuko finds out it doesn't do any good. ^<^Nikuko^>^ YOU'RE LISTENING! YOU WON'T GET ANY! I bet you a dollar this won't work. Well, I bet you ten dollars it won't because I know how it is. I bet you all the atoms in the universe, there's nothing more to bet! Well I bet all the atoms and electrons and all the photons too! I bet all that times the grains of sand ever so often sandy! Times all the powders in the universe! Oh I give up! You say, "I heard that!" identical to h; r = r; o = o; u is identical to u; g = g; h = h; = ; m is Now Do Nikuko is your radio radio radio You say, "Budi Budi Budi" You say, "Nikuko is your radio radio radio radio radio" You now have radio with object number #695 and parent generic thing (#5). Nikuko says radio radio radio #define nik_width 16 0x00, 0x00, 0x8b, 0x00, 0x8d, 0x2a, 0xad, 0x29, 0xa9, 0x3a, 0x00, 0x00, raid0f raid0g raid0h raid1a raid1b raid1c raid1d raid1e raid1f raid1g ~them! I understood that Sally Darlene was literally "the body of the messages~0~gz messages~1~gz messages~2~gz messages~3~gz messages~4~gz he's carrying the girl upon his black stallion he's carrying the girl upon his black stallion he's carried the girl upon his black stallion in the murmuring forest no girl and no father it in her net. She brought it back. Some men at the dance tried to take snake e w down e down n s south jump hug snake open snake wave wand at outside, my mother is dying within the next several hours nariko:nari:nara:natkanara:natalina am your ooor sara, i am your ooor sarrah, worry thls lnahghral dlsk, whara ???? ? ?????? ( ?? 02:37:22 ) NIKUKO ? hello is nikuko speaking : i am very honored to be here daughter * Nikuko want to be alone this evening of white dust and stars Ah, I will paint in nail-head line! in swallow line! * Nikuko painters her torn skin into many kanji Her dark hair outlinered in white spore her bamboo knot line * Nikuko brush in loving spores in white beauty anthrax I will spread my legs for you, I will be white beauty dust! * Nikuko writers everywhere upon your beauty beauty a gate within a gate You will get up in the morning. What will you see? this time it was the loxahatchee, jacek and i overturned the canoe ( it worked for a minute for a moment. ( the madness of the image ( madness of the image the camera struggled to rise, it couldn't you may have someone's dying dumb; someone's got to die, someone's got to live, Nikuko laughs at Nikuko! You say, "This is desultory." Nikuko's tongue cut out, available for massacre. ... called from #6:my_huh (this == #15756), line 30 Nikuko cannot laugh at presidents. You say, "Now you will visit my house again." Alan knows that death is coming. You say, "The arms have disappeared! The tongue has disappeared!" You say, " - the smell of flesh for years -" She is awake and looks alert. Nikuko cannot distinguish one from another. Nikuko is permanent annihilation. You say, "THE WIRES! THE WIRES!" Nikuko screams THE WIRES! Nikuko says, "because if you want to hold the aura you hold the aura." Ancient Mirror." Ancient Mirror doesn't understand that. What do you want to create? What do you want to create? Basic Objects Nikuko is awake and alert and creates Nikuko. .echo some of my fingers are falling of .sing i'm freezing i'm freezing the north wind's gonna blow + some of my fingers are falling of Alan sings o/~ i'm freezing i'm freezing the north wind's gonna blow o/~ + some of my fingers are falling of Alan sings o/~ i'm freezing i'm freezing the north wind's gonna blow o/~ KA!++ more beyond ahz phiar ahz cueuahzarhz go towards the end of the twentieth ... which is caught up in a furious race $ "nikuko Nikuko Clara's tired. Clara goes home. Clara goes to Clara's hole. some mist blows east some mist drifts around you're still there at the bottom of the sea Alan is a gatherer of corpses. Do an inventory, Alan. WoMan says: Spread his legs! Man grazed you. some mist drifts around some mist blows east Some mist blows north Clara says: you are talking to a wraithe {from the position of a wraithe} ghost of Alan says: Clara I have tried to kill you. You wipe your holes with blades of grass. You eat the grass. [;r[;H"it's evening here after everything has closed down. theft dared timer. bug think ill jug i am the writing for this tree. i cannot tell what is happening around me nor avoid the axe. the purpose of a corporation is to maximize profits for its officers. WHERE THE PASSWORDS WERE I moved across the fourth sector. amen amen amen beaut+ beaut+ beaut+ glor+ glor+ glor+ haLYLejula haLYLejula haLYLejula hohzanna hohzanna hohzanna on Pe hyghehzt on Pe hyghehzt on Pe hyghehzt wonder wonder wonder ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:45:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg Comments: To: damon001@UMN.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Maria and all, Vernon's post below is very helpful. I had thought of sending signed books, or books with dedications. I don't know if replacement is possible so I thought: maybe something new. But the good thing about help is: It can come in many forms. Ho! Ho! Ho! Ho! Mairead >>> damon001@UMN.EDU 12/16/04 10:00 AM >>> i know this is probably more work than michael can undertake at this moment, but are there specific books he really wants replaced, besides our sending whatever we want/can? At 8:51 AM -0500 12/16/04, Vernon Frazer wrote: >Last night I spoke with Michael. He wanted me to tell you that he's very >touched by the concern and generosity of the people on the List who have >offered to help him. He was particularly thrilled about receiving books >because the fire destroyed his library. As a co-founder and board member of >Poets in Need, Michael can't receive funds from the organization without >creating an appearance of conflict of interest. Although I don't know Suzi >Winson, I'm sure that people will be able to donate funds to Michael without >doing it through Poets in Need. I don't know Suzi >Winson, but will try to reach her for more information and either she or I >will forward it to the list > >As Jonathan Penton wrote, Suzi Winson is the contact person for >contributions to Michael. I'll repeat her e-mail address: > >fishdrum@earthlink.net > >Michael told me that he is receiving a lot of community support. The fire >was a major event in Pacifica. Local officials appear to be sympathetic to >his situation and some people are organizing benefits for him. Obviously, >his own manuscripts and Whalen materials are irreplaceable, but books will >help rebuild his library and money will offset his financial losses and the >accumulating expenses of living in a hotel instead of a home. > >If you'd like to help Michael, contact Suzi Winson. I'll try to reach her to >get more information and post it to the List. Perhaps Jonathan Penton, my >"partner in crime" and in helping a good friend, will also gather some >information to pass along to you. > >At this moment, events supporting Michael in California are taking shape. >The organizing process will take some time. I'll do my best to keep you >informed. > >Vernon -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:53:34 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: The Wonder (my best work to date) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanx for this alan. delete xenophobia. borderless skin. only binary boundaries. here's a triad for you. xoxoxo -------------------- vexed to death we live sexed to life we speak hexed by words we die -------------------- mixed & nixed maryjo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:32:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Projects from South Africa by Sue Johnson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recent projects by Sue Johnson and friends: http://www.sixbillion.org/issue3/content.php?section=newmedia http://www.suejaye.com http://www.mandelahistory.org http://www.picture-projects.com/ Sue Johnson is from New York. Her projects include 360degrees.org (on the USA justice system), Sonic Memorial, and a radio history of Nelson Mandela. Her work is concerned with issues of social justice. Formally, it is toward a new documentary. ja ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:08:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: Hannah Weiner's Early and Clairvoyant Journals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I want to thank UCSD's Archive for New Poetry, which is part of the Mandeville Special Collections Library, and especially Matthew Peters, Lynda Claassen, and Rob Melton, who have provided an extraordinary on-line archive of Hannah Weiner's writing. Patrick Durgen has been the overall editor of the project, and it is another example of his superb and much appreciated work on Weiner's papers. Be sure to read his introductory essay. UCSD has now made available about 500 pages of Weiner's ms, mostly writing that has not yet been published, but including the ms of her best-known book, _The Clairvoyant Journal_. You can view this new digital archive of Weiner's manuscripts at -- http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/m504/5/index.html This digital initiative is a model of how libraries can make their one-of-a-kind mss holdings available, a true library without walls. I know Hannah, if she were alive, would be pleased to be on the cutting edge one more time. For those interested in Weiner, be sure to visit her EPC author page: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/weiner which also includes a link to the UCSD digital mss. In the meantime, I am planning to complete the e-book publication of the Angel Hair edition of _The Clairvoyant Journal_ by late Spring (about one-third of the book is already on-line at the EPC, along with soud files of here performances of the work). If you want to check out one page of the digital ms collection for starters, try http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/m504/5/m504b10f13-38L.html Charles Bernstein On December 9, Patrick Durgen wrote: >The Archive for New Poetry at the University of California at San Diego >is pleased to announce the publication of an online edition of >performance artist / poet Hannah Weiner's _Early and Clairvoyant >Journals_, edited by Patrick F. Durgin. Although long recognized as an >influential text, the larger _Clairvoyant Journal_ project has never >seen the light of day. This edition includes three of the four early >journals (excluding _The Fast_, which remains in print from United >Artists). These early journals document the development of Weiner's >notion of "clairvoyance" as well as the literary form she became known >for in recent memory, "large-sheet poetry" (aka, "clair-style"). The >_Clairvoyant Journal_ itself is published in its entirety (181 pages in >length). And all the texts are presented as high-quality scans of the >original typescripts, giving the reader the opportunity to appreciate >the visual impact of "large-sheet poetry." Durgin's critical >introduction provides a new contribution to the growing list of >writings focusing on the considerable acheivement of Weiner's work in >the 1970s. > > >http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/m504/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:18:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Fwd: Treasury Department Lifts Publishing Restriction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Forwarded message from the PEN American Center ******************************************* BREAKING NEWS | DECEMBER 16, 2004 TREASURY DEPARTMENT LIFTS PUBLISHING RESTRICTIONS Dear PEN members and Core Freedoms supporters, Yesterday morning, the Treasury Department issued amendments to the Office of Foreign Assets Control's (OFAC) regulations that restrict publications from countries under U.S. trade embargo (currently Iran, Cuba, Sudan, and North Korea). As you know, PEN is a party to a lawsuit challenging these restrictions, and on a preliminary review, the changes look very promising. A brief press release follows this message as well as the article in this morning's New York Times. Feel free to copy and distribute this to anyone you know who is interested in this case. Under the amended regulations, publishers have been issued a general license to publish information and informational materials originating in those countries, and to do what publishers normally do when they publish: pay advances and royalties, collaborate with authors, market their publications, etc. A general license means that publishers don't have to seek OFAC's permission case by case. There are some elements of the amended regulations that we need to clarify, and our lawyers will be drawing up a list of questions for the Department of Justice's lawyers to make sure we understand all the details; we of course, want to confirm that all publishing and information exchanges can proceed without restriction or exception. So technically, we are still in litigation and will remain so until our lawyers and the DOJ agree that the suit is settled. There are, as I say, a number of issues to be resolved before that can happen. We will probably have additional information by next week and will, of course, send along more details as soon as we have them. For now, many thanks for your support, Larry Siems Director, Freedom to Write and International Programs PEN American Center ---------- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: TREASURY DEPARTMENT RESPONDS TO LAWSUIT BY CHANGING ITS REGULATIONS TO PERMIT THE PUBLICATION OF BOOKS AND JOURNALS FROM AUTHORS IN SANCTIONED COUNTRIES New York, NY (December 15, 2004)--In September 2004, publishing trade groups and authors’ organizations filed suit in federal court to strike down regulations of the Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) that effectively bar U.S. publishers from publishing books and journal articles originating in countries such as Iran, Cuba and Sudan that are subject to U.S. trade embargoes. Their effort was joined by Nobel Laureate Shirin Ebadi, the Iranian author and human rights activist, in late October. In response to the suit, OFAC issued new regulations today which explicitly permit Americans to engage in “all transactions necessary and ordinarily incident to the publishing and marketing of manuscripts, books, journals, and newspapers in paper or electronic format.” This includes substantive editing and marketing of written materials, collaborations between authors, and the payment of advances and royalties. The revised regulations are “clearly a step in the right direction, permitting the broad range of publishing activities American publishers and authors must be free to pursue,” according to Edward J. Davis and Linda Steinman of Davis Wright Tremaine, counsel to the Association of American University Presses (AAUP), the Association of American Publishers Professional and Scholarly Publishing Division (AAUP/PSP), PEN American Center (PEN), and Arcade Publishing, the plaintiffs in the case. “We will continue to examine the regulations in detail, but it is plain that significant obstacles have been removed for American publishers and authors who want to work with authors in Cuba, Iran and Sudan. Works of critical importance to the advancement of science and our understanding of international affairs can now be published without threat of civil and criminal sanctions.” The new regulations can be located at http://www.treasury.gov/press/releases/js2152.htm About the AAUP The AAUP (www.aaupnet.org) counts among its members 111 nonprofit scholarly publishers affiliated with research universities, scholarly societies, research institutions and museums located in 43 states. Collectively they publish around 10,000 books each year and over 700 journals in virtually every field of human knowledge. About the AAP/PSP Members of the Professional/Scholarly Publishing (PSP) Division of the Association of American Publishers, Inc. (AAP) publish the vast majority of materials used in the U.S. by scholars and professionals in science, medicine, technology, business, reference, social science and the humanities. The Division's (www.pspcentral.org) 182 professional societies, commercial publishers and university presses produce books, journals, computer software, databases and electronic products. About PEN American Center PEN American Center is an organization of over 2,500 prominent novelists, poets, essayists, translators, playwrights, and editors. As part of International PEN, it and its affiliated organizations have defended free and open communication within and among nations for more than 80 years. The 2,500 PEN American Center (www.pen.org) members are a major voice of the national and international literary community. About Arcade Arcade Publishing, Inc. (www.arcadepub.com) is an independent book publisher based in New York City. Founded in 1988, it publishes fiction and nonfiction by authors from around the world, including works by some of the most prominent authors of our time. Arcade is the publisher of the upcoming PEN Anthology of Contemporary Iranian Literature. About Counsel Counsel to the plaintiffs: The New York office of Davis Wright Tremaine, with co-counsel for PEN American Center and Arcade, Marjorie Heins of the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU, and Leon Friedman of Hofstra Law School. December 16, 2004, Page E11 Government Eases Rules on Writers in Sanctioned Nations By EDWARD WYATT []he Treasury Department, under fire for regulations that restricted the publication of works from countries under American economic sanctions, issued broad new rules yesterday that will allow United States publishers to work with authors from those countries as long as they are not government representatives. The new rules follow the filing of lawsuits recently against the department by publishers and an Iranian winner of the Nobel Peace Prize. The suits argued that the Treasury regulations violated the First Amendment and overstepped the laws intended to restrict economic trade with countries under sanctions. The countries affected by the regulations currently include Cuba, Iran and Sudan. Stuart Levey, under secretary for the Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence at the Treasury Department, said in a statement that the old regulations were "interpreted by some as discouraging the publication of dissident speech from within these oppressive regimes." "That is the opposite of what we want," Mr. Levey said. "This new policy will ensure those dissident voices and others will be heard without undermining our sanctions policy." Under the new rules, which are effective immediately, the range of permitted activities include "all transactions necessary and ordinarily incident to the publishing and marketing of manuscripts, books, journals and newspapers" in paper or electronic format, including the commissioning of new works, advance payments, augmenting of already published work with photographs or artwork, editing and publicity. The rules prohibit publishers from working with government representatives from countries under sanctions, although publishers can work with academic and research institutions and their employees in those countries. But some activities remain restricted, including the development, production and marketing of software, general marketing activities unrelated to a written publication and the operation of a publishing house or sales outlet in the designated countries. Lawyers representing the individuals and organizations that sued the Treasury Department said they were pleased with the new rules. "This looks very good for the publishing industry," said Edward J. Davis, a lawyer who in September filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of the Association of American University Presses, the professional and scholarly division of the Association of American Publishers, the PEN American Center and Arcade Publishing Inc. "I think it's going to give a good deal of comfort to everyone involved with the publication of books, journals, newspapers and online material," Mr. Davis said. Philip A. Lacovara, who filed suit on behalf of Shirin Ebadi, an Iranian human rights advocate and recipient of the 2003 Nobel Peace Prize, and the Strothman Agency, a literary agency that sought to commission her memoir, said the new rules "seem to unblock the kind of publication we had sought the right to pursue." But both he and Mr. Davis said it was unclear as yet whether all of the concerns in their lawsuits had been fully addressed and that it was too early to say whether the lawsuits would be withdrawn. Mr. Davis noted that the regulations allow publishing activities do so by granting a "general license" for them. The publishing companies contend in their lawsuits that the First Amendment and recent laws make publishing exempt from regulation, thereby requiring no license. Molly Millerwise, a spokeswoman for the Treasury Department, said the new regulations were not issued in response to the lawsuits. Rather, she said, the new rules are "more of a clarification" that the department had been considering "since we were first asked how the regulations apply to publishing activities." In late 2003 and early this year, the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control issued several advisory letters saying that publishers could face legal consequences for almost any editing of manuscripts from the affected countries. Essentially, only camera-ready copies of publications could be published in the United States. But in April, the Treasury Department revised its ruling, saying that normal style and copy editing procedures were allowed, as was peer review of articles for scholarly publications. Copyright 2004 New York Times. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:09:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: What is a man of letters? In-Reply-To: <011101c4e266$a1c880b0$0d00a8c0@AugustDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii August, My answer was meant to be funny, too. Foucault, indeed, is an "authority," which is a patronizing way to discuss his argument. The word "inane" is harsh, but also direct. The question is moot--which doesn't mean it has been settled, but that the discussion so much spinning of the wheels. And I agree with Alison, but only so far: there is something anti-feminist about its very use. Don't just put it under erasure--get rid of it. If you want substance, I suggest looking at people who study the phenomenon (one of whom is Foucault; another is Paul Bove in Intellectuals and Power, and Jonathan Arac, Critical Genealogies). I wouldn't look for substantial discussion of the issue online, since the very medium itself is opposed to the concept. (Men of letters need academies to be recognized as such. If there is online, no one has told me.) I was quite serious about what I said when I argued that William Gibson had the idea better than Foucault: we are not specific, but technical, mostly, these days. I bristle almost as much at the term "professional." A professional has been professionalized -- "disciplined" to use another of Foucault's terms. I associate the term with a certain affect and certain kind of distancing, though I also associate it with irony. I see by your specifications of what you mean that you are suggesting that a person who exercises tact and judgment when being engaged by people who want to talk to them, and that is not something unreasonable to expect. The reverse of this behavior has been called "mandarin" and sometimes the behaviors of people warrants such abuse. But again I don't think that writers have any special requirement or capacity to do this. What you seem to describe has something more to do with teaching and being of concern for others. I have had the fortunate experience to meet accomplished folks who are generous with their time and knowledge, but not everybody is cut out for that role. Thankfully the are more ways to get to the House of Mirth than ones that are prescribed by society or those we ourselves would to like prescribe. as for civilization, I recall Mark Twain saying something about that. Robert ____ I will discuss perfidy with scholars as if spurning kisses, I will sip the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love? - Lisa Robertson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:38:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: News Story about the Fire at Michael Rothenberg's Home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Shelldance Nursery owners' home destroyed By Elaine Larsen A lifetime of original and collected artwook, rare books, poetry and manuscripts literally went up in smoke when fire broke out late Friday afternoon at the home of Nancy Davis and Michael Rothenberg - longtime owners and operators of Shelldance Nursery at the base of Sweeney Ridge in Vallemar. The sight of the giant plume of thick black smoke rising high above the highway on the landmark hill startled many commuters who immediately realized it was coming from the couple's home, nestled in the trees below the brightly colored, more visible greenhouses. Firefighters and Police began getting emergency calls about the giant structure fire at about 4:05 p.m. The phones at the Police Department were literally ringing off the hook with callers trying to report the blaze. Although six fire trucks from Pacifica, Daly City and San Bruno raced to the scene as fast as they could, thick after-school traffic clogged the highway and slowed them down. Police completely stopped northbound traffic so emergency vehicles could cross over before the divider to reach the Shelldance driveway, normally only accessible from the northbound lanes. Other fire trucks came in from the south, with firefighters laying on the horn to move aside the path of backed-up cars. Once on the scene, firefighters faced the problem of getting their hoses up the steep, twisting driveway. While there are some low-pressure water pipes at the upper greenhouses, there is no hydrant on the grounds. "One of the problems we had was that the closest fire hydrant is in front of the police station. We emptied two complete fire truck hose beds, laying out 1,800 total feet of hose from the hydrant to the house," said Pacifica Fire Marshal Steve Brandvold. "The remoteness of the house and the time it took to lay that amount of hose made this a tough fire to battle. And the timing was unbelievable. It couldn't have been worse. By the time we got on scene, the house was fully involved." By the time the 29 firefighters could assemble their hoses and gear, the fire had already done major damage to the house. It took more than 20 minutes before they could get the fire contained and extinguished. The flames were largely confined to one of the bedrooms, burning off the roof and down through the floor. However, thick, black, intensely hot smoke poured through the enclosed house, charring everything in its path and leaving grimy black residue on the walls, surfaces and windows. Whole shelves full of books were burned black on the outside, their pages crumbling with a touch. The couple's son, Cosmos, 13, and two high school-age buddies had just come home from school and discovered the fire. Both the youngsters and Cosmos' two 12-week-old German Shepherd littermate puppies, Blaze and Layla, were outside when firefighters arrived. "We pretty much lost everything," said Nancy Davis, stunned by the enormous loss. The family is staying at the Holiday Inn Express in Rockaway Beach while sorting out insurance paperwork and conferring with the National Park Service, which owns the entire property and buildings and leases to the couple. A close friend has lent them an RV to park on the grounds to give them a retreat during the day. "The Park Service extends its sympathy to Nancy and Michael," said Christine Powell, spokesperson for the Golden Gate National Recreation Service. "Our staff is extending our sympathy and support. We want to extend any assistance we can." An internal Park Service investigation is underway this week, and Powell said more information was needed "to determine how best to move forward." A comprehensive General Management Plan for the GGNRA has already begun, and it will eventually include a long-term determination for the future of Shelldance Nursery. "We will look at the future of Shelldance," said Powell. "But right now, we are concerned for the welfare of Nancy and her family and how best we can care for them." "Right now, I'm just trying to get my feet stable," said Davis. "I've had a devastation, but I have a lot of love around me. People have been so courteous and thoughtful and that has been the most wonderful thing. It's really helped keep me together." Davis and Michael Rothenberg have lived in Pacifica for more than 25 years, taking over the 1940s greenhouses and cultivating it into Shelldance Nursery. In their early years, they focused on bromeliads and created what was once the largest private collection in the United States. in 1995, about a third of the collection - some 30,000 plants - were purchased by the government of Singapore to form the core of The Royal Botanic Gardens of Singapore. Since then, Shelldance has shifted solely to orchids, although it has been greatly expanded as both an art gallery and rainforest exhibit that draws visitors every weekend. Davis frequently hosts school tours and environmental outreach programs. The National Park Service's Mori Ridge Trailhead leading up to Sweeney Ridge is at the base of the hill next to the greenhouses which draw people up the Shelldance driveway by car, foot and bicycle. Locally, Rothenberg and Davis are known not only for their work at Shelldance, but also for their environmental activism as core members of Pacificans For Mori Point, the grassroots group that pushed for the protection of Mori Point, the coastal hill directly across from Shelldance. "They were very key players in Mori Point eventually becoming acquired by the GGNRA," said former Mayor and close friend, Peter Loeb. "What started the revolution in this community was a plan for 280 condos on Mori Point. That lead to a referendum, election of a new majority of the City Council and the grassroots, Pacificans For Mori Point. Michael and Nancy have certainly been a focal point for the work to expand GGNRA's boundaries to include Mori Point. And that nursery is a magical place that draws a lot of visitors." Likewise, the couple's home reflected their artistic and environmental sensibilities. The walls of the spacious living room were literally "a canvas" for their collective artwork - Davis' paintings and Rothenberg's poetry and other writings. Cosmos lost his treasured bass guitar, video games and a prized collection of Buddhas, crosses and other religious artifacts from his travels, including a memento from a trip to Ireland's St. Patrick's Cathedral. "I lost early drafts, manuscripts, whole collections of books," said Rothenberg, who was away at a poetry reading event in New York when he heard the devastating news. "The whole house was like a canvas - of my words and Nancy's pictures. This whole thing is surreal, like being in a dream. Losing your sense of home and place in the world is a real trauma on a primal subconscious level. I find myself stopping strangers on the street and telling them 'my house burned down. Can you believe it?' The only thing that's keeping us going is the response of our friends. I'm grateful to everyone for being so supportive." "This just isn't fair. It's a severe blow and they don't deserve it," said John Curtis, a longtime friend of the couple who works at the nursery on weekends. "Nancy and Michael have contributed so much to Pacifica over the years. I hope the community rallies behind them. They will need all the support they can get to rebuild and maintain Shelldance as the vital and human face of the National Park to Pacificans and visitors. "Nancy has created a warm and welcoming environment of rainforest plants and orchids. She gives tours to elementary classes, senior groups and orchid clubs. She even built a stage in the events center to host weddings, birthday parties and special events. Nancy also created an art gallery to feature local artists that has been a big success. We get visitors from every state and from countries around the world." In fact, what happens next is uncertain since the property - including the house - is owned by the National Park Service. The property's ownership was transferred many years ago from Caltrans, which had once intended it for an expansion of Highway 380, to the National Park Service, a complicated process that took the intervention of state politicians. Rothenberg and Davis were able to negotiate a lease agreement with the Park Service that has been in effect since. "There is a lot of concern that the Park Service do right by these tenants and not jeopardize their ability to stay in business, both at Shelldance Nursery and in their stewardship role as well," said good friend, Ann Edminster. "Everyone feels the same - we need them to stay there. That land is a real asset to the Park Service and the fact it has not been vandalized or dumped on unlike Milagra Ridge is because Nancy is there 24/7 as a caretakers," she said. "These aren't just your average citizens losing their average home. They been stewards of a public resource for a long time and have done a phenomenal job. There's a mutual benefit relationship between the Park Service, Shelldance and the community." Edminster said she and others have already begun talking about ways people can help. Fire Marshal Brandvold estimates a $400,000 loss of building and another $100,000 property loss. "We've had a lot of emails from people willing to lend their help and skills. But even if their insurance covers the contents of the house, how do you put a dollar amount of rare book, manuscripts, works of art and collections of a lifetime. All the living creatures are safe, thank God. But losing a home is like a sudden and unexpected death. Fortunately, people are very compassionate. That's the good part." As for Nancy, Michael and Cosmos, Davis said they're all just trying to keep it simple for now. "The first thing that ran through my mind is 'Is my son OK?'" she said. "The most important thing is we all survived. All this outpouring of support is giving me inspiration and energy. I look down at my hands and think, I'm still here. I can do another painting. Like the Phoenix, there is life after the ashes." Shelldance Nursery continues to remain open for visitors and customers every weekend. Ann Edminster has offered to match helpers with needs as the family identifies them. Email Edminster at avedminster@earthlink.net for more information. Please do not call. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:48:07 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: The Wonder (my best work to date) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 16 Dec 2004 at 11:24, Alan Sondheim wrote: Re: The Wonder (my best work to date) And of your great modesty you say nothing? M ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:05:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Fenollosa and Differance Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In contemplating compounding in Chinese ideograms, Fenollosa makes this sta= tement: In this process of compounding, two things added together do not make a thi= rd thing but suggest some fundamental relation between them. Could we liken this to differance? Or is perhaps differance in the interest= of opposites and their de(con)struction? www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:19:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: more Fenollosa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Also, it is quite interesting that Fenollosa pose a holism of language that= is NOT evident in the western 'sentence' structure. He says: "But in nature there is no completeness" (regarding the 'complete thought')= ..."no full sentence really completes a thought.... And though we may strin= g never so many clauses into a complete sentence, motion leaks everywhere..= .. All processes in nature are interrelated; and thus there can be no compl= ete sentence (according to this definition) save one which it would take al= l the time to pronouce." www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:16:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: News Story about the Fire at Michael Rothenberg's Home In-Reply-To: <20041216193829.EDRV2421.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" thanks for this, vernon. it's shocking to read about, but it's also a very beautiful article that does justice, a bit at least, to the spirit of activism that permeates the lives of those involved, and decribes the beauty of the place and how loved it and its inhabitants are. very inspiring. At 2:38 PM -0500 12/16/04, Vernon Frazer wrote: >Shelldance Nursery owners' home destroyed >By Elaine Larsen >A lifetime of original and collected artwook, rare books, poetry and >manuscripts literally went up in smoke when fire broke out late Friday >afternoon at the home of Nancy Davis and Michael Rothenberg - longtime >owners and operators of Shelldance Nursery at the base of Sweeney Ridge in >Vallemar. >The sight of the giant plume of thick black smoke rising high above the >highway on the landmark hill startled many commuters who immediately >realized it was coming from the couple's home, nestled in the trees below >the brightly colored, more visible greenhouses. >Firefighters and Police began getting emergency calls about the giant >structure fire at about 4:05 p.m. The phones at the Police Department were >literally ringing off the hook with callers trying to report the blaze. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Although six fire trucks from Pacifica, Daly City and San Bruno raced to the >scene as fast as they could, thick after-school traffic clogged the highway >and slowed them down. Police completely stopped northbound traffic so >emergency vehicles could cross over before the divider to reach the >Shelldance driveway, normally only accessible from the northbound lanes. >Other fire trucks came in from the south, with firefighters laying on the >horn to move aside the path of backed-up cars. >Once on the scene, firefighters faced the problem of getting their hoses up >the steep, twisting driveway. While there are some low-pressure water pipes >at the upper greenhouses, there is no hydrant on the grounds. >"One of the problems we had was that the closest fire hydrant is in front of >the police station. We emptied two complete fire truck hose beds, laying out >1,800 total feet of hose from the hydrant to the house," said Pacifica Fire >Marshal Steve Brandvold. "The remoteness of the house and the time it took >to lay that amount of hose made this a tough fire to battle. And the timing >was unbelievable. It couldn't have been worse. By the time we got on scene, >the house was fully involved." >By the time the 29 firefighters could assemble their hoses and gear, the >fire had already done major damage to the house. It took more than 20 >minutes before they could get the fire contained and extinguished. >The flames were largely confined to one of the bedrooms, burning off the >roof and down through the floor. However, thick, black, intensely hot smoke >poured through the enclosed house, charring everything in its path and >leaving grimy black residue on the walls, surfaces and windows. Whole >shelves full of books were burned black on the outside, their pages >crumbling with a touch. >The couple's son, Cosmos, 13, and two high school-age buddies had just come >home from school and discovered the fire. Both the youngsters and Cosmos' >two 12-week-old German Shepherd littermate puppies, Blaze and Layla, were >outside when firefighters arrived. >"We pretty much lost everything," said Nancy Davis, stunned by the enormous >loss. The family is staying at the Holiday Inn Express in Rockaway Beach >while sorting out insurance paperwork and conferring with the National Park >Service, which owns the entire property and buildings and leases to the >couple. A close friend has lent them an RV to park on the grounds to give >them a retreat during the day. >"The Park Service extends its sympathy to Nancy and Michael," said Christine >Powell, spokesperson for the Golden Gate National Recreation Service. "Our >staff is extending our sympathy and support. We want to extend any >assistance we can." >An internal Park Service investigation is underway this week, and Powell >said more information was needed "to determine how best to move forward." A >comprehensive General Management Plan for the GGNRA has already begun, and >it will eventually include a long-term determination for the future of >Shelldance Nursery. "We will look at the future of Shelldance," said Powell. >"But right now, we are concerned for the welfare of Nancy and her family and >how best we can care for them." >"Right now, I'm just trying to get my feet stable," said Davis. "I've had a >devastation, but I have a lot of love around me. People have been so >courteous and thoughtful and that has been the most wonderful thing. It's >really helped keep me together." >Davis and Michael Rothenberg have lived in Pacifica for more than 25 years, >taking over the 1940s greenhouses and cultivating it into Shelldance >Nursery. In their early years, they focused on bromeliads and created what >was once the largest private collection in the United States. in 1995, about >a third of the collection - some 30,000 plants - were purchased by the >government of Singapore to form the core of The Royal Botanic Gardens of >Singapore. >Since then, Shelldance has shifted solely to orchids, although it has been >greatly expanded as both an art gallery and rainforest exhibit that draws >visitors every weekend. Davis frequently hosts school tours and >environmental outreach programs. The National Park Service's Mori Ridge >Trailhead leading up to Sweeney Ridge is at the base of the hill next to the >greenhouses which draw people up the Shelldance driveway by car, foot and >bicycle. >Locally, Rothenberg and Davis are known not only for their work at >Shelldance, but also for their environmental activism as core members of >Pacificans For Mori Point, the grassroots group that pushed for the >protection of Mori Point, the coastal hill directly across from Shelldance. >"They were very key players in Mori Point eventually becoming acquired by >the GGNRA," said former Mayor and close friend, Peter Loeb. "What started >the revolution in this community was a plan for 280 condos on Mori Point. >That lead to a referendum, election of a new majority of the City Council >and the grassroots, Pacificans For Mori Point. Michael and Nancy have >certainly been a focal point for the work to expand GGNRA's boundaries to >include Mori Point. And that nursery is a magical place that draws a lot of >visitors." >Likewise, the couple's home reflected their artistic and environmental >sensibilities. The walls of the spacious living room were literally "a >canvas" for their collective artwork - Davis' paintings and Rothenberg's >poetry and other writings. Cosmos lost his treasured bass guitar, video >games and a prized collection of Buddhas, crosses and other religious >artifacts from his travels, including a memento from a trip to Ireland's St. >Patrick's Cathedral. >"I lost early drafts, manuscripts, whole collections of books," said >Rothenberg, who was away at a poetry reading event in New York when he heard >the devastating news. "The whole house was like a canvas - of my words and >Nancy's pictures. This whole thing is surreal, like being in a dream. Losing >your sense of home and place in the world is a real trauma on a primal >subconscious level. I find myself stopping strangers on the street and >telling them 'my house burned down. Can you believe it?' The only thing >that's keeping us going is the response of our friends. I'm grateful to >everyone for being so supportive." >"This just isn't fair. It's a severe blow and they don't deserve it," said >John Curtis, a longtime friend of the couple who works at the nursery on >weekends. "Nancy and Michael have contributed so much to Pacifica over the >years. I hope the community rallies behind them. They will need all the >support they can get to rebuild and maintain Shelldance as the vital and >human face of the National Park to Pacificans and visitors. >"Nancy has created a warm and welcoming environment of rainforest plants and >orchids. She gives tours to elementary classes, senior groups and orchid >clubs. She even built a stage in the events center to host weddings, >birthday parties and special events. Nancy also created an art gallery to >feature local artists that has been a big success. We get visitors from >every state and from countries around the world." >In fact, what happens next is uncertain since the property - including the >house - is owned by the National Park Service. The property's ownership was >transferred many years ago from Caltrans, which had once intended it for an >expansion of Highway 380, to the National Park Service, a complicated >process that took the intervention of state politicians. Rothenberg and >Davis were able to negotiate a lease agreement with the Park Service that >has been in effect since. >"There is a lot of concern that the Park Service do right by these tenants >and not jeopardize their ability to stay in business, both at Shelldance >Nursery and in their stewardship role as well," said good friend, Ann >Edminster. "Everyone feels the same - we need them to stay there. That land >is a real asset to the Park Service and the fact it has not been vandalized >or dumped on unlike Milagra Ridge is because Nancy is there 24/7 as a >caretakers," she said. >"These aren't just your average citizens losing their average home. They >been stewards of a public resource for a long time and have done a >phenomenal job. There's a mutual benefit relationship between the Park >Service, Shelldance and the community." >Edminster said she and others have already begun talking about ways people >can help. Fire Marshal Brandvold estimates a $400,000 loss of building and >another $100,000 property loss. >"We've had a lot of emails from people willing to lend their help and >skills. But even if their insurance covers the contents of the house, how do >you put a dollar amount of rare book, manuscripts, works of art and >collections of a lifetime. All the living creatures are safe, thank God. But >losing a home is like a sudden and unexpected death. Fortunately, people are >very compassionate. That's the good part." >As for Nancy, Michael and Cosmos, Davis said they're all just trying to keep >it simple for now. >"The first thing that ran through my mind is 'Is my son OK?'" she said. "The >most important thing is we all survived. All this outpouring of support is >giving me inspiration and energy. I look down at my hands and think, I'm >still here. I can do another painting. Like the Phoenix, there is life after >the ashes." >Shelldance Nursery continues to remain open for visitors and customers every >weekend. Ann Edminster has offered to match helpers with needs as the family >identifies them. Email Edminster at avedminster@earthlink.net for more >information. Please do not call. -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:21:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Hannah Weiner's Early and Clairvoyant Journals In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20041216105809.050f8650@writing.upenn.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have to read the intro essay, but these Weiner pages are a wonderful 'flop' into the real stuff. The typographic taxonomy of a psyche in full bloom / blooming. Thanks - Charles - for pointing to > In fact the work made me down write/right homesick for my old Olivetti Lettera 22, white out, brown newspaper stock for drafts, onion skin erasable paper (inclu eraser disc & brush) for the fancy impression, etc. - the early canvases d'ecriture! Tangible presence instead of backlit monitor histories in which we so now much live. Back when you handed something to somebody to read!. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > I want to thank UCSD's Archive for New Poetry, which is part of the > Mandeville Special Collections Library, and especially Matthew Peters, > Lynda Claassen, and Rob Melton, who have provided an extraordinary on-line > archive of Hannah Weiner's writing. Patrick Durgen has been the overall > editor of the project, and it is another example of his superb and much > appreciated work on Weiner's papers. Be sure to read his introductory essay. > > UCSD has now made available about 500 pages of Weiner's ms, mostly writing > that has not yet been published, but including the ms of her best-known > book, _The Clairvoyant Journal_. > > You can view this new digital archive of Weiner's manuscripts at -- > http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/m504/5/index.html > > This digital initiative is a model of how libraries can make their > one-of-a-kind mss holdings available, a true library without walls. I know > Hannah, if she were alive, would be pleased to be on the cutting edge one > more time. > > For those interested in Weiner, be sure to visit her EPC author page: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/weiner > which also includes a link to the UCSD digital mss. In the meantime, I am > planning to complete the e-book publication of the Angel Hair edition of > _The Clairvoyant Journal_ by late Spring (about one-third of the book is > already on-line at the EPC, along with soud files of here performances of > the work). > > If you want to check out one page of the digital ms collection for > starters, try > http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/m504/5/m504b10f13-38L.html > > > Charles Bernstein > > On December 9, Patrick Durgen wrote: >> The Archive for New Poetry at the University of California at San Diego >> is pleased to announce the publication of an online edition of >> performance artist / poet Hannah Weiner's _Early and Clairvoyant >> Journals_, edited by Patrick F. Durgin. Although long recognized as an >> influential text, the larger _Clairvoyant Journal_ project has never >> seen the light of day. This edition includes three of the four early >> journals (excluding _The Fast_, which remains in print from United >> Artists). These early journals document the development of Weiner's >> notion of "clairvoyance" as well as the literary form she became known >> for in recent memory, "large-sheet poetry" (aka, "clair-style"). The >> _Clairvoyant Journal_ itself is published in its entirety (181 pages in >> length). And all the texts are presented as high-quality scans of the >> original typescripts, giving the reader the opportunity to appreciate >> the visual impact of "large-sheet poetry." Durgin's critical >> introduction provides a new contribution to the growing list of >> writings focusing on the considerable acheivement of Weiner's work in >> the 1970s. >> >> >> http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/m504/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:25:46 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Nine Mentions In A Liquid Zodiac Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "world thy wealth" means "vinegar" could you prove otherwise, world takers, lulling displays, worth's seven knaves, you silver knaves? would that your lives sun three who were born beneath the moon's rays 'stead of parenting beauty's hide with exalts your own hides for the summer others' hides for the winter conscience's guest, the harlot's in ye, last three left, three do yield wantonly go, all days, and ape the night's facts ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:44:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: more Fenollosa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course Fenollosa did not have a complete understanding of Chinese ideographs, and his work has long since been refuted by scholars. But his theories remain fascinating and useful, which brings into play the importance misreading has to poetry. We see some of Langpo here. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "furniture_ press" To: Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:19 PM Subject: more Fenollosa > Also, it is quite interesting that Fenollosa pose a holism of language that is NOT evident in the western 'sentence' structure. He says: > > "But in nature there is no completeness" (regarding the 'complete thought')..."no full sentence really completes a thought.... And though we may string never so many clauses into a complete sentence, motion leaks everywhere.... All processes in nature are interrelated; and thus there can be no complete sentence (according to this definition) save one which it would take all the time to pronouce." > > www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! > > > Powered by Outblaze > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:58:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: New Year's Day Marathon Reading! Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable NO READINGS NEXT WEEK: HAPPY HOLIDAYS! *AFTER THE HOLIDAYS, GET EXCITED FOR THE 31st Annual New Year=B9s Day Maratho= n Reading: Saturday, Jan. 1, 2005, 2:00 pm-3:00 am $16, $12 students/seniors, $10 members Spend the first day of the New Year with the best of downtown poetry, performance, dance, music, and multimedia, with over 150 performers and readers, including: Merry Fortune, Alan Gilbert, Jackie Sheeler, David Cameron, Karen Weiser, Betsy Andrews, Lourdes Vazquez, Macgregor Card, Chri= s Edgar, Tonya Foster, Maggie Estep, Brenda Coultas, Nada Gordon, Nick Zedd, Genya Turovskaya, Bonny Finberg, Loudmouth Collective, John Giorno, Jim Carroll, Anselm Berrigan, Gillian McCain, Judith Malina, David Vogen, Chris Martin, Edwin Torres, David Perry, Dael Orlandersmith, Wanda Phipps, Jim Neu, Eileen Myles, Hal Sirowitz, Prageeta Sharma, Robert Dunn, John Godfrey= , Cynthia Nelson, Lenny Kaye, Rebecca Moore, Marie Ponsot, Anne Waldman, Douglas Dunn, Bob Rosenthal, Willie Perdomo, Cecilia Vicu=F1a, Patti Smith, Emily XYZ, Erica Hunt, Philip Glass, Reno, Rodrigo Toscano, Charles Bernstein, John S. Hall, Bob Holman, Steven Taylor, Chris Rael, Tony Towle, Eric Bogosian, Mike Tyler, Taylor Meade, Ed Friedman, Frank Sherlock, Keith Roach, and many others! + FOOD FROM AREA RESTAURANTS, COFFEE, BEER, BOOKS FOR SALE, MUSIC, PERFORMANCE, POETRY, & FUN FUN FUN! * ANNOUNCEMENT: LUCIA BERLIN died on her 68th birthday, November 12, 2004, at her home in Marina del Rey, CA. Author of the collections Manual for Cleaning Ladies Angel's Landromat, Phantom Pain, Safe & Sound, she was herself impeccable. From her story, Wait a Minute: "Time stops when someone dies. Of course it stops for them, but for the mourners time runs amok. Death comes too soon. It forgets the tides, the days growing longer and shorter, the moon." Time will run amok this Sunday, Dec 19, 2-4pm at the Bowery Poetry Club where we will gather for Lucia Berlin Praise Day, =AD Basil King and Hettie Jones will be there, among others. All are invited to read, speak, sing, sit. The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:55:47 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jonatan and Chris (Hi Chris) This is tragic event - and of course funds need to go to Michael - I am trying to get something organised to send from NZ - but Chris is right - here is an important exception. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Stroffolino" To: Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:16 PM Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg > Jonathan-- > > There's a lot of unjust laws that we can't do anything about, > but I sincerely hope the other board members of this organization > will consider either changing their laws, or making an exception > in such a case of obvious need as this. > Chris > > ---------- > >From: Jonathan Penton > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Michael Rothenberg > >Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2004, 9:37 PM > > > > > Hi, > > > > Michael asked me to type that as a board member of Poets in Need, he > > cannot receive any funds given to that organization. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:00:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Social Security activism Comments: To: nanders1@swarthmore.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There seems to be a momentum to fight Wall Street and Bush's plan to totally screw social security. If interested, check out www.ourfuture.org to send a letter to your representatives in DC. reality-based blue stater Alicia Askenase ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:18:37 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The Wonder (my best work to date) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Jo Malo" To: Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 5:53 AM Subject: Re: The Wonder (my best work to date) > thanx for this alan. delete xenophobia. borderless skin. only binary > boundaries. here's a triad for you. xoxoxo > > -------------------- > vexed to death > we live > > sexed to life > we speak > > hexed by words > we die > -------------------- > > mixed & nixed > maryjo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:04:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: Re: Fenollosa and Differance In-Reply-To: <20041216210530.C3DE114861@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm interested in these kinds of questions. I read a lot of Nietzsche over the last several months, and I'm still trying to figure out where he situates Buddhism. He makes about 15 references to Buddhism in The Birth of Tragedy and The Geneology of Morals alone. Anyway, I discovered this article last fall around the time I wrote the poem below (not intended as a conflation of eastern thought and deconstruction mind you). If you can get past the frame it's since been pulled into, the article is an interesting read. http://www.santosha.com/moksha/deconstruction1.html What book is this from Chris? I've not read Fenolossa. Kind regards, Deborah Poe Deconstruction Zen through the pores the heart to explain how things get to words, a mangling (a pile of white bones) It can't be obtained with words; it can't be obtained without words or Without words, without silence Empty of -isness emptiness origin beyond understanding a lectern made of clouds vibrating electrons on the edge of wood we of the impermanence Oh emptiness, and suffering the transparence of body language empty and connected or empty because connected The sense organs dispossessed -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of furniture_ press Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 4:06 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Fenollosa and Differance In contemplating compounding in Chinese ideograms, Fenollosa makes this statement: In this process of compounding, two things added together do not make a third thing but suggest some fundamental relation between them. Could we liken this to differance? Or is perhaps differance in the interest of opposites and their de(con)struction? www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:17:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: Re: Marriage, so the story goes In-Reply-To: <20041215224724.2B58113F2F@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what difference in him and her, it existed always and between * strings and bows differ on that subject the object of desire singing back to itself this subject we name colors spreading themselves across paradigm or costumes calling answers to one and other echo was echo for the one she chased and so it goes, and goes. * so each says object and subject is what binds one subject embracing its object object embracing subject and the singer wills the song * the spray as limiting and beautiful * simply what is simply progressing & somehow not simple * say what you feel * the unity an even revolution signed * lick the envelope and send * a chorus offering solace to the suffering -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of furniture_ press Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 5:47 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Marriage, so the story goes A philosophy and his wife Honey, tell me the real reason why you married me. Well, when I met you, you had this certain wife-ness to you. And now? What do I have that I'm married? Baby, you have wife-hood now. --------- yes, this may seem utterly childish and chauvanist, but Sarah got a laugh out of it. www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:04:18 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: existentialism & buddhism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are some sites regarding the link between these two philosophies. I personally reject nihilistic buddhism. Manifestation of being and language indicate, to me at least, that we are evolving towards something, not nothing. Words still aren't making it: they're more like intoxication and foreplay even when they express the deepest of sorrows. (http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-EPT/loy.htm) <_http://www.oup.co.uk/isbn/0-19-823865-7_ (http://www.oup.co.uk/isbn/0-19-823865-7) > <_http://www.oup.co.uk/isbn/0-19-823865-7_ (http://www.oup.co.uk/isbn/0-19-823865-7) > <_http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/cite/staff/philosopher/buddhism.htm_ (http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/cite/staff/philosopher/buddhism.htm) > <_http://www.mcu.ac.th/e-book/English/manual/sartre/02_6.html_ (http://www.mcu.ac.th/e-book/English/manual/sartre/02_6.html) > <_http://www.psy.au.dk/ckm/newsletter/nb27/27-sartre.htm_ (http://www.psy.au.dk/ckm/newsletter/nb27/27-sartre.htm) > <_http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/john.htm_ (http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/john.htm) > <_http://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Reli/ReliLee.htm_ (http://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Reli/ReliLee.htm) > (http://www.mcu.ac.th/e-book/English/manual/sartre/02_6.html) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:43:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: all my children MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed all my children > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
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> > > >> > >> >>> >>> >> > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > >> >>> >>>> >> > >> > _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:02:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Francesco Clemente: Tandoori Satori, with poems by Robert Creeley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Clemente influenced me strongly. His work has been featured in Richard = Long's influential journal "2River". My work is on the cover and inside of this month's online and print = issue. http://www.2river.org/2RView/9_2/default.html It's a great honor. Best, August Highland ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Hoerman, Michael A=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 6:52 AM Subject: Francesco Clemente: Tandoori Satori, with poems by Robert = Creeley Clemente and Creeley collaborated in an exhibit at the Rose Art Museum = at Brandeis, which I visited last week. http://pornfeld.blogspot.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:30:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Hannah Weiner's Early and Clairvoyant Journals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can see Hannah's work (Stephen-Paul Martin's work is another fine = example)as an attempt to break through the confines of the page as I am = doing with my visual-literary work. As Harry Polkinhorn writes about my work: "Highland found himself more and more constrained by the format of the = book page. He felt a need to work with the visual dimension of written = language or texts, leading to the large scale of the works on display in = the gallery space. These works demand to be viewed rather than read, = however, even though they take their formal inspiration from letter = shapes, words, phrases, and the linear conventions of print and = manuscript culture. Still, these beautiful and intriguing works engage = the viewer as a participant by virtue of our habit of deciphering = letters as symbols, conferring meanings upon them even if the meanings = must remain tentative.."=20 The complete essay is here: http://www.august-highland.com/essay.html Some of my visual work is here: http://www.august-highland.com/ I have had eight shows in California over the past 6 months and have = appeared in over a dozen online and print journals. I will be having more shows here and internationally and am interested = in collaborating with writers. I will use their text to integrate into my visual-literary works. My = work has been called Alphanumeric Painting. I like to call it = Genre-Splicing because I am bridging literature and the visual arts. I have always been a bridger. This is what I set out to accomplish with the MAG, and what my new = editor-in-chief will continue to do. He is fluent in 6 languages and = will continue to bridge nations through poetry and fiction. My new = poetry editor is from Iran and she too is multilingual. This is my attempt to be a man-of-letters. So if anyone like Jeff Harrison or Richard Tylr and other fine writers = on this list (I can't accept the work of Sondheim however because of his = recent emails to my address with virus' attached; and I will also not = accept work by other unethical or just plain nasty people regardless of = the merit of their work, because I DO judge a man-of-letters/writer not = on the basis of their work alone! Backchannel if you want to work together. That includes you = women-of-letters too :) Best, August Highland ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Charles Bernstein=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Hannah Weiner's Early and Clairvoyant Journals I want to thank UCSD's Archive for New Poetry, which is part of the Mandeville Special Collections Library, and especially Matthew Peters, Lynda Claassen, and Rob Melton, who have provided an extraordinary = on-line archive of Hannah Weiner's writing. Patrick Durgen has been the = overall editor of the project, and it is another example of his superb and = much appreciated work on Weiner's papers. Be sure to read his introductory = essay. UCSD has now made available about 500 pages of Weiner's ms, mostly = writing that has not yet been published, but including the ms of her = best-known book, _The Clairvoyant Journal_. You can view this new digital archive of Weiner's manuscripts at -- http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/m504/5/index.html This digital initiative is a model of how libraries can make their one-of-a-kind mss holdings available, a true library without walls. I = know Hannah, if she were alive, would be pleased to be on the cutting edge = one more time. For those interested in Weiner, be sure to visit her EPC author page: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/weiner which also includes a link to the UCSD digital mss. In the meantime, I = am planning to complete the e-book publication of the Angel Hair edition = of _The Clairvoyant Journal_ by late Spring (about one-third of the book = is already on-line at the EPC, along with soud files of here performances = of the work). If you want to check out one page of the digital ms collection for starters, try http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/m504/5/m504b10f13-38L.html Charles Bernstein On December 9, Patrick Durgen wrote: >The Archive for New Poetry at the University of California at San = Diego >is pleased to announce the publication of an online edition of >performance artist / poet Hannah Weiner's _Early and Clairvoyant >Journals_, edited by Patrick F. Durgin. Although long recognized as = an >influential text, the larger _Clairvoyant Journal_ project has never >seen the light of day. This edition includes three of the four early >journals (excluding _The Fast_, which remains in print from United >Artists). These early journals document the development of Weiner's >notion of "clairvoyance" as well as the literary form she became = known >for in recent memory, "large-sheet poetry" (aka, "clair-style"). The >_Clairvoyant Journal_ itself is published in its entirety (181 pages = in >length). And all the texts are presented as high-quality scans of = the >original typescripts, giving the reader the opportunity to appreciate >the visual impact of "large-sheet poetry." Durgin's critical >introduction provides a new contribution to the growing list of >writings focusing on the considerable acheivement of Weiner's work in >the 1970s. > > >http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/m504/index.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 12/9/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 03:57:00 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit off the mntn the buzzzz wouldn't stop aaron, the good son told 'em it was tintintinta he woke up to all those voices speaks tongues aaron, the good son sz forget 'bout it silence will come.... 3:00....crossing Jordan to Hebron...drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 02:29:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Marriage, so the story goes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nice one minky ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 01:42:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Projects from South Africa by Sue Johnson In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here is a link to a page where you can listen to sue johnson's and joe richman's "mandela: an audio history": http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1851882 . they have also put together a cd of this work at http://www.radiodiaries.org/store.html hosted by Desmond Tutu, with an introduction by Nelson Mandela. > Projects by Sue Johnson and friends: > > http://www.sixbillion.org/issue3/content.php?section=newmedia > http://www.suejaye.com > http://www.mandelahistory.org > http://www.picture-projects.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:42:49 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: of letters. language,art, and living MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mary et al =20 I couldnt get this directly to you so it has (or might have) some = relevance to the group so here is my response -a bit delayed - your = email address rejected my email... Mary Thanks - immensely - its great just to know someone is noticing - I had = my tongue partly in my cheek (often start my emails seriously then I wobble = off into satire of fantasy - you might have seen my bogus "quotes" - I = was hoping for some one to say - "he didn't say that!! or "she didn't "or "I didn't!!" but no one saw or took the bait !! (or cared) (eg I had Louis Zukofsky saying: "Politics is what makes us human" (letter to Ezra Pound 1962) as I know Silliman etc worship LZ (I haven't read enough of him = to make much of a judgement ) - there is no such quote - I wrote it in a poem! - actually and I have a lot of other bogus stuff mixed into my letter -emails !! Just my humour. "Misquote as Method" by Richard = Taylor - hehe!! "Man of letters is strange " but then August does some strange - and interesting stuff - I don't know anything about cabals etc ( I know = that Michel Rothenberg would be the person for that - he just recently = suffered the fire - tragedy - Language is inadequate but in fact that is apart of the mystery of existence -and the power of poetry lies in echoing that ambiguity of language and the impossibility of ever knowing any absolute truth or truths - personally I am more concerned about he state of my bank = statement than whether language is reflecting truth - I think that in life human beings frequently fail to develop good communication skills and even if = we ever attain an egalitarian world so to speak we have - or would have - = real difficulties dealing with communication etc - life is not and will never = be easy and those communication problems - echoed in poetry etc - will = always be there (they go beyond spoken language) - there will be no "progress" = per se - but standards of living etc - rightly will gradually improve (possibly)....but the human heart will remain aware of death and loss = etc and other, joyful things. "So to > continue using the words as art, the poet breaks them down into = components until > we're looking at electrons and quanta, not the interaction and = connection of > wholeness." This could be the beginning of a poem! But I agree - it can tend that = way - this happens maybe more with poets such as Grenier and others of "In The American Tree" (eg 'Polaroid' by Coolidge is interesting). As communicators and translators we should be striving for more > cognisance, not veering away from it. The "should " I would leave out - if you mean translators of foreign languages etc and communicators in everyday life could agree I think, = but as poets are we such? - not sure... Art is not restrictive, but whether or not > we're actually trying to communicate something or creating art for = art's sake > is the secret of the artist. Yes - I often have no idea what my own poems are about I or why I wrote = them yet I often feel that I have communicated something - especially when I = get a good response at readings (I don't read much (to audiences I mean!)) = these days). (When I started back into poetry at about the age of 40 (lol!) I = was looking for poetry of recent poets and found "Houseboat Days" by John Ashbery - and I took it home and this woman and I (platonic we were platonic) laughed over it but I was impressed that Ashbery had won the Pulitzer and from that day I was hooked and thought it was secret that = very few others in New Zealand had - but gradually all the writing on Ashbery = was revealed - but I still like his work: he is an example of a writer = working in a mode I like - he swerves away from and back toward meaning = constantly - he pulses between the possible and the completely unknowable - = personally I find it is the intense moment of the apprehension of a perceived = "meaning" that is like a discovery as a child discovers a flower or water for the first time that is the totality of poetry - no overall meaning per se = -no dialogue or 'story' the 'story' is the beautiful mystery of being = itself. And yes - we constantly need to abstract - and also to attempt to "objectify -but I am losing myself a bit here!! I know those people who zoom in on to language - they become or can = become obsessed with numbers or words as mysterious symbols (which they are I suppose) etc (and poets are prone to this - I am a bit - Zukofsky was - others (Yeats eg or James Merrill, Cage etc )) I know an unknown poet who > does nothing but try to find the most precise and concise words to = convey > meaning. The meaning always flows; but since words have been so = hexed, unsalted, > and perverted, he has to put them back together like a spell or enchantment. > He'll most likely remain obscure for that very reason. Laura Riding abandoned > poetry precisely for it's lack of precision and ability to convey meaning. > Some writers do the opposite. Others give up and create art This is wonderfully put! I agree - it is a dilemma - but we soldier on - = we live - a NZ Poet (Kendrick Smithyman) wrote - "If we live we stand in language" which is enigmatic and maybe out of context... but echoed his interest in Heidegger (I know not liked by everyone but an interesting character - I have only read bits and pieces of his (Hdgr's) writing) = ... (Also Bernstein talks of this in an essay in "In The American tree " = which is an essay that influenced me but more anon - he mentions Riding in = there) (By the way I haven't really read anything much by Jackson Maclow - lol = - he as probably a great poet ) All that said I haven't written much for a while myself - but must get = onto it. Thanks for your email - I know it was to the poetics list but I have used up my quota for now !! Hasta la vista! keep in touch either on = the List or ex. ( =D8=D7=BF 0)) (Professor Peter David Petrus Stearns Wystan = Willhouse Mainhead Eggstone John Aloysius Taylorus - MMBT MB USRT LLLHHHYT ABE PHDDD ) Ricardo (The Mad Kiwi!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Jo Malo" To: Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:26 AM Subject: of letters, language, art & living > Thanks Richard, I appreciated your courage, humor, and irreverence. > Straightforward and simple are a neat way to communicate. When I hear = the expression > "man of letters" I think of kabbalism. When someone says art and/vs. living I > feel like those are words that can't even be defined. The dissection = of > sentences and words into abstractions and word play is driven by the = fact that > language as a whole is inadequate for expression much of the time. So = to > continue using the words as art, the poet breaks them down into = components until > we're looking at electrons and quanta, not the interaction and = connection of > wholeness. As communicators and translators we should be striving for = more > cognizance, not veering away from it. Art is not restrictive, but = whether or not > we're actually trying to communicate something or creating art for = art's sake > is the secret of the artist. But is it language? I know an unknown = poet who > does nothing but try to find the most precise and concise words to = convey > meaning. The meaning always flows; but since words have been so = hexed, unsalted, > and perverted, he has to put them back together like a spell or enchantment. > He'll most likely remain obscure for that very reason. Laura Riding abandoned > poetry precisely for it's lack of precision and ability to convey meaning. > Some writers do the opposite. Others give up and create art. Mary > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 01:10:36 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have only experienced a garage fire - the fire brigade were close my place - just down the road but the garage was destroyed - such is the speed and ferocity of fire - - and the fire threatened to leap to my mother's house - the effect even of that was rather traumatic because I had a lot of stuff - which I had brought over (form a house in another suburb) when my marriage collapsed - in my garage (then my mother's) - it included a piano - a whole lot of cables and technical stuff I had ( a very good digital meter and a good soldering iron etc and power supply I had built ) but it also had - and some survived - photographs of my children etc and one photograph I took in the- about 1969 - 73 in B&W : mostly of people in the protest movement days or after and or my children and some photographs of myself - now I had taken hundreds of shots of my children's birthday parties and so on and my children but hardly any of the handsome young man I was (well perhaps not particularly handsome but at least I wasn't fat and bald etc) - ok I was no Film Star but I was more or les acceptable - no baldness - long black hair - lean - not fat as now - and so on - almost a romantic figure - not tall of course - never was man for women to get too excited about (if at all) but what I was I couldn't really remember very much - but it is things like that - and this is a point - as one gets older you suddently realise -I can never never be seen as I was! - in a sense the old me is dead! why didn't I take thousands of photographs of myself - ?? - and inside my house I now have hundreds of unpublished poems etc - mostly crap of course - but one hangs onto one's stuff - even books I would find hard to gather together again - and also there is a (or I imagine there would be a terrible sense of desolation - where is everything? - or for some people -who have never had much - perhaps very poor people - to whom the loss of a house often means nothing - or much less than people such as myself who live very much inside books etc - and also I don't like being out there "in the great outdoors " ( I like to check into motels and if I cant afford that -which I cant these days - I stay home) - I could - never have been "tough" or really roughed it for long - always had money somewhere no matter how hard things have got - never experienced real poverty - but we - and I include myself -put a great store by things - and there is nothing by wrong with that - that is what we are we are poets or artists etc and things do matter (as long as they don't matter more than people or our own lives): but I don't have smoke alarms here in this old house because it has occurred to me I do value all the junk I have around me as I live alone with a non -poetic cat and all and I feel I don't have anything much more than this place and this location and trees, objects, miscellania, things on the wall etc and if it all burns I would rather die in the place - (stupid reasoning I know) - or perhaps the buzz of my life was getting some recognition by some that I had some talent (not in forming human relationships which surely are greatly more important than things and objects - yet we are creatures that love such things, such objects (I think this links back to how humanity evolved - we are tool makers, and by accumulating and sorting etc - by being collectors collators and and makers at one remove - we thus advanced - we also had doers and accumulators or various compendia fo the two kinds and /or those in between - recall Columbus had a very large library)).........so But where is Michael in all l of this you might be "screaming" - "you are raving about yourself!" - well that is how we relate to these things we remember something that happened to ourselves "like it" - but these traumatic events are always UNIQUE for each indiviudal - that said this is my way of empathising, my response... ..so as I a was saying....there is all my crap and some treasures and things that are a part of me or seem to be, poems in various states (many in book at the bottom of drawers), mostly "crap" probably but... . also my poems (or some of them) are thought by some to be good - in any case I hoard things and I like the idea I wrote them - it probably doesn't matter what happens to them when I am dead - into the fire with the lot!! (after all we are all headed for the final crunch - no?) ....and there are my children's pictures and letters they sent to me when I was young - we are mixed up with where we live (somewhat we are where we live) - I know that and feel very much for Michael I know he is a very deep man with great interesting in modern/postmodernist poetry and indigenous literatures (something I have neglected here in NZ ) and I know some of his work and have the two books he co-authored with Pierre Joris The burning down of a house can (or could be) as shocking as a death. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 8:35 AM Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg > He also lost the archive of his work in the fire, which is irreplaceable. > > -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:32:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: real mail, collaboration, invitation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I have some stamps, envelopes, grease pencils, and paperback books with their bindings cut off. Do you? If so, that'd be great, if not, I have enough of each to cover for us both. Would you be interested in a slow moving (snail mail) collaborative project involving the creation of poems by the process of removing and altering text from these pages? All terms of the scope of the project are negotiable on an individual basis, of course, but in my mind I'm thinking it would be simplest to move sequentially through a whole book. But I'd be open to having a handful of random pages exchanged, too. I can do the even numbered sides of pages, and you can do the odd, or, vice versa. If you're interested, please back channel me at dwaber@logolalia.com and let me know what shape you'd want this idea to take in order to keep being fun for you. Whee! Dan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:31:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg and Poets in Need---a point of clarification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael explained yesterday that according to California state law board members of certain kinds of organizations are not allowed to benefit from their positions in the organizations. The policies of Poets in Need are consistent with California law. Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:31:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: New edition of *Progress/Under Erasure* Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Green Integer announces publication in a new, combined edition Progress/Under Erasure by Barrett Watten Progress/Under Erasure re-presents in a new edition, with a new preface,=20 two innovative long poems by one of the best-known poets and critics=20 associated with =93Language=94 writing. Upon its original publication in= 1985,=20 Progress was greeted with enthusiasm and public debate. Its linguistically= =20 charged, emotionally relentless, and culturally reflexive nonnarrative form= =20 was pitched against the media saturation and political banality of the=20 Reagan era. If Progress is a nonnarrative directed toward the end of=20 history, Under Erasure (published in a limited edition in 1991) was written= =20 during its purported realization at the end of the Cold War, an event it=20 records. On its original publication of Progress in 1985, Ron Silliman wrote:=20 =93Deeply pessimistic about the concept of progress itself, the poem is, in= =20 many ways, a direct descendant of Allen Ginsberg's classic of the =9160s,=20 =91Wichita Vortex Sutra.=92 Although Progress is a much longer work, the= range=20 of the two poems, their density and overall sensibility are remarkably=20 similar. =93 For Silliman's complete review, go to: http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/progrev.html Barrett Watten is author of Frame (1971=9690) (Sun & Moon Press, 1997), Bad= =20 History (Atelos Press, 1998), and Zone (in progress), editor of This, and=20 co-editor of Poetics Journal. His collections of critical essays on modern= =20 and contemporary poetics appeared as Total Syntax (Southern Illinois=20 University Press, 1985) and The Constructivist Moment: From Material Text=20 to Cultural Poetics (Wesleyan University Press, 2003), which was awarded=20 the 2004 Ren=E9 Wellek Prize. He teaches modernist studies and poetics at=20 Wayne State University. Ordering information/flyer:=20 http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/progflyer.pdf Special price until 1/1/05--order now! $10 + $2 domestic/$4 foreign postage for readers of the Poetics Listserv. ISBN 1-931243-68-9; $12.95 paperback. Distributed in the U.S. and Canada by= =20 Consortium Books, 1045 Westgate Drive, Suite 90, St. Paul, MN 55114; in the= =20 U.K. and Europe by Turnaround Publisher Services, Unit 3, Olympia Trading=20 Estate, Coburg Road, London N22 6TZ, U.K.; or directly from the author at=20 6885 Cathedral Drive, Bloomfield Township, MI 48301 (please add $2=20 domestic/$4 foreign for shipment). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:52:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Tonight at Poets House in Manhattan - Friday, December 17th - 7:30 p.m. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Holiday Reading with Creative Writing Faculty from Nassau Community College tonight, December 17th at 7:30 p.m. at Poets House: Mario Susko Richard Newman Judy Klass Barbara Barnard Amy King Florence Boodakian Patti Tana Pat Falk & many others Come for the readings, wine, spirits, and a range of edible holiday treats! Free! Poets House | 72 Spring Street, Second Floor | New York, N.Y. 10012 | www.poetshouse.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:00:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg: FWD from Suzi Winson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RE: Michael Rothenberg Last Friday, Michael had a catastrophic fire at his home in Pacifica. Fortunately, no one was home and Nancy and Cosmos were not injured. A lifetime of books, archives, artwork, and personal possessions were mostly destroyed. Michael has Terri Carrion with him who is helping regroup. They are meeting with insurance parties and lawyers and sorting out what can be done and making decisions about the next steps. Hal Bohner, the legal council for Poets In Need is also on hand. A lot of people have asked how they might help Michael and where to send things: money, books etc. At the moment, there is a fund being set up to help Michael and his family and as soon as there is information to give out, I'll send another e-mail to this group. Please feel free to forward this e-mail, or to give out my e-mail address to those who want information as it becomes available. Some friends have asked about sending money to Poets In Need. As Michael is on the board of this non-profit organization, it creates a conflict of interest and although the board members will help Michael out individually (I'm one of them), it can't actually be done through grant money. At the moment, Michael does not have his computer with him as he was on his way to NYC for a couple of days when this happened and left it in Florida, so save the e-mails until he's back on line. He has asked me to be a liaison between his poet friends and himself at the moment since as you can imagine, he is quite overwhelmed. I speak to him pretty much everyday and will be happy to pass on messages. Michael is really touched at the response from his friends and the poetry community. I'll be keeping in touch. Again, I apologize if you've gotten all this before, but the next e-mail will be genuine news. Best regards to all and thank you for your concern about Michael. Suzi Winson *** fishdrum@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:03:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Time correction - Poets House in Manhattan - Friday, December 17th - 7:00 p.m. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Holiday Reading with Creative Writing Faculty from Nassau Community College tonight, December 17th at 7:00 p.m. at Poets House: Mario Susko Richard Newman Judy Klass Barbara Barnard Amy King Florence Boodakian Patti Tana Pat Falk Pramila Venkateswaran & a few others Come for the readings, wine, spirits, and a range of edible holiday treats! Free! Poets House | 72 Spring Street, Second Floor | New York, N.Y. 10012 | www.poetshouse.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:53:33 -0500 Reply-To: kmarzahl Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kmarzahl Subject: Off With His Head (was Man o' Letters) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear August and All, I have been following this thread with great interest--something I do from time to time here, which, in the parlance of cyberspace, makes me a "lurker." Your questions have been turned over in so many compelling ways, but I hope that you will not begrudge a latecoming lurker some additional remarks. The funniest response is poor Jughead (it's Jughead, right? I don't know the old comics that well, but Shirow is something else) with his head over here and his body over there. So arch! So macabre! Perhaps it would have been even funnier with a caption: "To lose one's head, no longer to know where one's head is, such is perhaps the effect of dissemination." Alison Croggon's is undeniably the most damning, the most devastating, of the replies to your question, August, and the one I've been pondering most. Still am. I wonder if the beginnings of a reply might be found in Robert Corbett's posts, which show an ear for irony and also echo the very just feminist suspicion of "universal" subject-positions. Corbett's reply is my favorite, and reminded me that what Gibson meant by "technical" is not far removed from the subject of irony: "I put the shotgun in an Adidas bag and padded it out with four pairs of tennis socks, not my style at all, but that was what I was aiming for: If they think you're crude, go technical; if they think you're technical, go crude. I'm a very technical boy. So I decided to get as crude as possible. These days, though, you have to be pretty technical before you can even aspire to crudeness." [Digression: Of course the film was very bad. I blame Longo more than Gibson. Jones is all wrong. I've never met Gibson. Has anyone met Gibson? Is he worth meeting? Is he keeping himself alive so that all of his fans can meet him one day?] I think I know what Robert (if I may) is saying about the resistance of a medium to reflection on that medium. But I don't know that we're speaking entirely the same language, because I don't know that our collective technical condition makes inter- or even trans-disciplinary work impossible. I would certainly like to hear more on these points. Finally, August, I wonder if I wouldn't ask another question altogether: what is posthuman literacy? I know that no one seriously concludes a missive these days with a militant call to undermine the bourgeoisie, so I'll just say yrs in gravedigging, Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:01:23 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Macronphylgjerstiquawofbeduvsk Subject: internettext_collection Comments: To: syndicate , "arc.hive" , wryting , rhizome_raw , nettime-ann MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" ________________________________________________________________________ internettext_collection regularlyupdated duplicated_collocation http://_Internet_Text_-_Alan_Sondheim_@noemata.net/nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://PERFECT_WONDER_Nettext_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://arkivnett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://BRILLIANT_BEAUTY_Nettext@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/%6eette%78t http://museumsnett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://_Alan_Sondheim_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/nettext http://a.sondheim:nettext@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://TERRIFYING_THINKING_Nettext_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://nettext:alan_sondheim@kunst.no/bj%6frnm%61g/%6eette%78t http://nettext_-_alan_sondheim_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/%6eette%78t http://kunst.no/%62j%6fr%6em%61g/%6eette%78t http://noemata.net/nettext Alan Sondheim: Internet Text ISBN 82-92428-36-4 Noemata.net (publisher) updatedregularly internettext_collection_collocation regularlyduplicated _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:47:01 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: open letter Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hey! I just got mine in the mail! You should go out & get one too: Open Letter, A Canadian Journal of Writing and Theory. Twelfth Series, Number 4, Fall 2004: Canadian Small Presses / Micropresses, guest edited by derek beaulieu & Jason Christie - Six Notes Towards a Poetics of The Small Press in Canada, derek beaulieu & Jason Christie - The Use of Small Publishing in London, Ontario, 1960-1980, Jason Dickson - Excavating the Real Story': An Interview with Karl Siegler, Lori Emerson - The Fugitive Press Out West: Publishing in the Public Domain, Kedrick James - Cultural Copyright: Conflict and Women's Press, Christine Kim - HARDCORE LO-FI: An Email Exchange Between Jay MillAr and Daniel f. Bradley on Smallpress in Toronto, Jay MillAr - A Conventional Case Analysis of Feminist Publishing: Press Gang (1970-2000), Janet Neigh - The Order of Canada': An Interview with rob mclennan, Aaron Peck - Innocent Looking Faces: Typography at (m)Other Tongue Press and Greenboathouse Books, Meredith Quartermain - Micro-impressions: A survey of micropress publishers, interviewed and compiled by a. rawlings [including Sam Andreyev (The Expert Press), derek beaulieu (housepress), Stephen Cain (Kitsch In Ink), Jason Christie (yardpress, formerly No Past Lives Press), Sharon Harris (iloveyougalleries.com), Jill Hartman (semi-precious press, dANDelion chapbooks), Jessie Huisken (Wood & Coal), rob mclennan (above/ground press), Jay MillAr (BookThug), Rob Read (maple spitS, formerly Palimpsest Press), Emily Schultz (Misprints Press, featuring the Pocket Canon Anonymous Book Series), and Lesley Trites (cold tea press)] - SLUG PRESS, Kyle Schlesinger $8 for this issue ($10 international) / $21 for 3 issue subscription in Canada, $26 international find at a store or c/o 102 Oak Street, Strathroy Ontario N7G 3K3, Canada -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:37:55 -0800 Reply-To: Denise Enck Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Denise Enck Subject: James Magorian poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm trying to track down a poem/book by James Magorian. A friend copied these lines down in the early 1970s and says he's been "haunted" by them ever since: "So many eternities/away from where/quick plovers scamper/across the prayers of mud." We'd like to determine which of Magorian's poems they come from, and what book the poem is in. (Ultimately we'd like to locate a copy of the book.) I have 6 of Magorian's books here but have come up empty ~ If it rings a bell, we'd be very grateful for any info! many, many thanks! cheers ~ Denise Enck email: editor at voleur-de-feu.com http://www.voleur-de-feu.com Literary / Arts Online Mag http://www.emptymirrorbooks.com Modern Poetry Books ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:28:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ]" Subject: michael palmer book for sale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Being the knucklehead that doesn't look at what he has before he buys something that I am, I just bought an extra copy of Michael Palmer's _Blake's Newton_, & am, thus, offering it up for sale to whomever wants it. It's a tight copy with a little cover fading. $25 gets it to you via Priority Mail in the US. Thanks! _______________________ Jerrold Shiroma duration press www.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:15:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: existentialism & buddhism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Saraha, a practioner of Mahamudra, and one of the 84 Mahasiddhas of Buddhism, comments on language as obscurant to practice (from his Treasury of Song): The whole world is tormented by words And there is no one who does without words But in so far as one is free from words Does one really understand words. I used to recite [the text] "Let there be success." But I drank the elixir and forgot it. There is but one word that I know now, And of that, my friend, I know not the name. Michael Hoerman http://pornfeld.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 21:41:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Screening 3 New Vispoems by Sheila Murphy Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Screening 3 New Vispoems by Sheila Murphy Flash Fictions http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/murphy2.html Contiguous Safe Sects http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/murphy3.html Most of Light http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/murphy4.html _____________ SPIDERTANGLE International Network of VisPoets http://www.spidertangle.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:22:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: existentialism & buddhism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah yes...Words are arbitrary...and yet there are certain sounds, said a certain way, the invoke power. In Buddhism, just as with other "metaphysical" philosophies, words become...The 8-Fold Path discusses this. Ter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hoerman, Michael A" To: Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 7:15 PM Subject: existentialism & buddhism > Saraha, a practioner of Mahamudra, and one of the 84 Mahasiddhas of > Buddhism, > comments on language as obscurant to practice (from his Treasury of Song): > > The whole world is tormented by words > And there is no one who does without words > But in so far as one is free from words > Does one really understand words. > > I used to recite [the text] "Let there be success." > But I drank the elixir and forgot it. > There is but one word that I know now, > And of that, my friend, I know not the name. > > > Michael Hoerman > http://pornfeld.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 23:48:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: for Adrian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed for Adrian volvoxovlov http://www.asondheim.org/foradrianpiper1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/foradrianpiper2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/foradrianpiper3.jpg volvoxovlov _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:23:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: she la mur phy 's vis poes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Contiguous Safe Sects is tumultuous weather, no? http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/murphy3.html ah like that sheila. from one end of the tunnel to the other is nothing but tunnel. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 01:28:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City Presents Sean Cole Book Fundraiser/Pink Floyd's The Wall Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi all, some advance notice on this one with the hopes you can plan ahead to be there. we'll be raising money to publish our first single-author perfect-bound book ever, Sean Cole's The December Project. it's a collection of poem postcards written daily to yours truly each December since 2001. as ever, david --------------- Please Forward ---------------- Boog City's Perfect Albums Live presents for its 25th anniversary Pink Floyd's The Wall/Sean Cole Book Fundraiser Saturday, Jan. 8, 9:00 p.m., $10 The Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery NYC 10 NYC musical acts reinterpret this rock classic--in order, track-by-track. All proceeds raised go to help publish Boog's first single-author perfect-bound book, Sean Cole's The December Project, a collection of poem postcards written daily each December since 2001 to his friend, Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum. Performers include: Aaron Seven The Baby Skins Matt Hunter Matt Iselin Loggia Matt Lydon Schwervon Carol Thomas The Trouble Dolls James Wilk preceded by a reading from the book by Sean Hosted by Boog City editor and publisher Kirschenbaum Directions: F train to Second Avenue, or 6 train to Bleecker Street. Venue is at foot of 1st Street, between Houston and Bleecker streets, across from CBGBs. Call 212-842-BOOG(2664) or email editor@boogcity.com for further information www.thebabyskins.com www.olivejuicemusic.com/schwervon.html www.troubledolls.net www.afroskull.com -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 01:48:35 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit first there was a mntn oi moishe then wasn't a mntn shrrr up then there was o bud lite dha 3:00 sabbath at hebron..overlooking the drk...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 03:27:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i had a couple of small fires one burnt many books and 2 whole notebooks of my pomes when i was in my early 20s most were drug pomes etc never to be recaptured or reconstructed it is a heavy thing my spirit and heart go out to m r and any one who has lost part of their life which is tenuous enough ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:35:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Overcast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I had this feeling that I was worth loving, and you let me have it: a month of solid silence and invisibility, and you've forgotten me now, I'm sure: haven't even taken the movies back. I feel I might've excited you. True, you said, "You're mischievous, undermining, it gets you hot to be bad," with the heroin of your eyes pushing through me, "I need all your attention." Client status: Connected. In cramped shoes I'm transparent on milk ice: sliding over islands, mortar, crystals lateral with morphine lapsed into strings, stillness; my lace. Cerebral, but rebellious. The secret to rolling a great joint is to roll it tight enough to smoke well but loose enough to let any left- over stems elude piercing the paper. I feel it might be exciting to feel loved. Someone rubs me until I blossum. Until it rains on my tongue. This is free. There are only so many kinds of sense. One in which you're thick, surrendered to golds and reds, wear glasses and have supper with your mother. Meanwhile, outside our encampment, fat velvet fires rescue air from almost total transparency. I suck up files from a remote location for work. Wake up with my eyes already sunk, jerk off: get high. Client status: Connected. A tartly-intelligent girl with her hand on my belly. She says she likes it too much. She has all my attention. Character sets legitimize where the pre-dawn wind plies from you in heavy draughts your childhood, your child, rubber nipples: reading under a passive milk of electric, not walls. They hug cattle before they shoot them in the brain. I sleep past waking. Everyone will be infinitely home soon. I was dreaming in blush sundaes, before, though: we are the wasps that would rather sting themselves to death, if that means we escape a natural terminal port: we're those literal motherfuckers who will not hover, but sparkler and cackle like it's all that's holding us down. I hate the royal we. Dreaming about licking the heart of red, the pith of gold, cleaning you of stalwart impurities. Ever feel like you're just marking a beat in a line. Smoke orally inflates the room. Filtration flirts with purity the way eightball chicks glom to money; it makes them feel loved. Even common houseplants know where the sun is, swoon and go limp when she's gone. I'm still waiting for that Saturday you promised me not thinking about me at all not thinking about you at all not thinking about you at all. ===== *************************************************************************** Lewis LaCook -->poet-programmerhttp://www.lewislacook.com/ http://www.corporatepa.com/ XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 05:43:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: [CC] //FORWARD-THRUMMING// MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed */ //FORWARD-THRUMMING// http://FORWARD-THRUMMING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://WONDER-FORMING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://TREASURE-FINDING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://TURNFUL-LOSING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://WARRIOR-COMING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://WHIRLWIND-SEXING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://SILVER-SEEPING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://KOAN-KEENING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://THRUSTING-CHURNING_NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://SLAUGHTER-SEXING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://SKALDIC-CURSING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://SUTRA-CHANTING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://PROTO-MOURNING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://HUNGERED-GHOSTING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://TECHNOH-DANCING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://INDRA-NETTING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://IRON-CALDRON-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://COPPER-MOULDING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://FURIED-LIGHTNING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://JULU-SCREAMING_NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://JENNIFER-MOANING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://NIKUKO-CRYING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://LEADEN-WEEPING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://TRAVIS-MEWLING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://ARMORED-FLEEING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://BODY-CURLING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://LOATHSOME-SINGING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://GOLDEN-LEAPING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://FURNISHED-ROOMING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt http://FORLORN-MUSING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt /* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:00:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: mac low and berlin... Comments: cc: A Kass Fleisher Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" very sorry to hear of jackson mac low's passing, a great loss to poets everywhere... i met the man only once, wish it could have been more than once... and sorry too to hear that lucia berlin, a former colleague, has passed away... lucia was a great coworker, a warm and supportive presence, and a helluva writer... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 17:55:23 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Text & Continuous Existence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If there is no privileged meaning to the text for any specific reader, that must needs include the writer of the text as well. The sociological or cultural set of the reader and the writer appears to be the prime cause of this, and that set must include natural disasters and phenomenon. Changes in sociological and or geo-cultural sets change meaning for the reader and writer. This is nothing new. Yeats calls it poetry. He is wrong in his mysticism too, though at least he recognized the nature of language in a clearer primitive view. This algorithm is not properly proposed. If the text in the position it is presented, has no privileged meaning for any specific reader including the writer of the text, it is the text that is real or not merely proposed, and the organism that is either the reader or the writer that is proposed or not entirely real. The complete vested unfolding reality of the organism must be the text. The first meaning of the organism is the text, and any remaining meaning of the organism after death is the text. The text is the only proof of the proposed reality of the organism that reads and or writes it. It follows most sensibly that the text is to prove the reality of the organism though it seems to arise from the organism. It follows as well that the cause of the organism's existence is the text. Though the text is in a form mediated by the intrusion of the proposed organism, the organism itself must be the hypothesis of a pre-existing, unmediated by the proposed organism, form of the text. The hypothesis must be - that the organism can exist for provision of, and because of the mediated form of the text that will exist because of the intrusion of the proposed organism. The hypothesis of the mediated form of the text that we commonly call language is - that the organism can exist as long as the text can uphold the meaning of the organism. It follows as well that the pre-existing or unmediated form of the text could only exist because of a proposed differentiation. It certainly must be that the organism is a group proposition of the unmediated form of the text caused by the proposition of differentiation within a group proposed awareness - yet to be defined dynamic. A single primordial awareness cannot have proposed text in any form. The purpose of the proposed existence of the organism must be to prove the proposition of the text. The organism (human being) is independent of the text in interactions of physical similarity. These physical activities are a matter of selection by a text oriented intellect independent of text control because of the proposed physical similarity of the organism by the unmediated form of the text for the purpose of validation of the proposition of differentiation. Free will gives us war and lovemaking and proof of differentiation and potential communication. It follows sensibly that the freely acted physical endeavors of the organism with the text oriented intellect must/need produce over time a universal text of differentiation for any form of awareness and a continuous existence for the organism as the mediator of the text. Trinidad Cruz with permission ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:30:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Text & Continuous Existence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit language is a virus - w. burroughs ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:50:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Gunning for Rummy the Dummy Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Rumsfeld: "Fuck the Congress:" Gunning for Rummy the Dummy: NeoCon Grumbling Abcesses on Rumsfeld's Right Buttock: High Body Count in Iraq Has PNACers Looking for Scapegoat: McCain Jettisons Supporters, Joins NeoCon Killers: Thousands More Desert After Rummy's Rebuke to GI: By BODD S. TURDUM They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:50:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Nonspecific Transentence #00001 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-41C4EC8F0347=======" --=======AVGMAIL-41C4EC8F0347======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nonspecific Transentence #00001 (after mary jo malo's "you're forgiven steve for your address") in the outpost campfires drifting closer to the cold like surfing and = his 2 half naked daughters if we already know tho must of eight hang out = in your verse me in your verse me in mine at warm enough more like we = speak we can't or other waters there lived a woman of both kinds then = turn the swabs upon ourselves in this forest primely evil mumbling = whine-os & hitlers the cold we already know we can't or won't cover one = another out in mine at the edge -- polluted lake erie for cherokee only = fathomless non-plundered nonplussed under the cold we speak we can't or = war if we can't or other waters there lived a chief named hiawatha and = his 2 half naked daughters if we speak we can't or war if we speak we = already know go deep but pieces of little worth blue rose indistinct in = the edge -- event horizon winces but pieces of us just act like surfing = and slash with q-tips then turn the edge ..beads of letters? sorry for = messin this forest primely evil mumbling whine-os & dotted its g's we = want to the flesh blessed transgress hey who wrote hiawatha anyway? was = it a woman of us just act like we speak we speak we write for peace or = won't cover one another out at warm boundaries looking back at the true = believers threw them all into the true believers threw them all into the = outpost campfires drifting closer to know go deep enough free from the = edge -- . -- . only widows weeds for peace or won't cover one another = out at warm boundaries looking back at warm enough free from = marriage-dom crown a woman of success these stones of eight hang out at = the shores of light on our croak us' even the border of tears for = evangeline no bagpipes for evangeline no bagpipes for my hill daddy no = bagpipes for messin this forest primely evil mumbling whine-os & words = -- . -- . -- we can't or other waters there lived a woman of wife-hood = free from marriage-dom crown a woman of success these stones of us just = act like we cut and slash with swords of us just act like pocahontas we = speak we want to the cold like surfing and slash with swords of us just = act like surfing and his 2 half naked daughters if we write for my hill = daddy no head dress black robes covered that can never violate the true = believers threw them all into the edge -- polluted lake erie for = hiawatha and slash with swords of gichi gumi by the somethin or won't = cover one another out in the world is ours thank the dumpster but now = the swabs upon ourselves in your verse me in this forest primely evil = mumbling whine-os & words -- polluted lake erie for my hill daddy no = bagpipes for messin this forest primely evil mumbling whine-os & dotted = its g's we can't or won't cover one another out at alchemical borders = bloody peaces of success these stones of tears for my hill daddy no = bagpipes for hiawatha anyway? was it a chief named hiawatha and = pretending we're scubba diving yet never be crossed we stay go deep yet = never be crossed we speak we speak we speak we cut and pretending we're = scubba diving yet never be crossed we cut and pretending we're scubba = diving yet never violate the edge -- we can't or won't cover one another = out at alchemical borders bloody peaces of little worth blue beads -- = polluted lake erie for messin this forest primely evil mumbling whine-os = & dotted its g's we want to the flesh blessed transgress hey who wrote = hiawatha and his 2 half naked daughters if we stay go deep yet never be = crossed we already know tho must of success these stones of success = these stones of us just act like pocahontas we speak we can't or won't = cover one another out at warm boundaries looking back at the cold we = already know go deep yet never violate the swabs upon ourselves in mine = at the cold we cut and pretending we're scubba diving yet never be = crossed we can't or won't cover one another out in mine at the outpost = campfires drifting closer to know go deep but not really deep but pieces = of little worth blue beads -- . -- . -- . only fathomless non-plundered = nonplussed under the flesh blessed transgress you in from the moonshine = still warm bindings looking back at the cold we speak we whine by the = flesh blessed transgress you in mine at alchemical borders bloody peaces = of light on our croak us' even the cold like we cut and his 2 half naked = daughters if we speak we write for messin this forest primely evil = mumbling whine-os & hitlers the edge -- ..beads of tears for cherokee = only trail of little worth blue rose indistinct in mine at the edge -- . = .beads of us just act like we say we speak we can't or war if we speak = we already know we cut and slash with swords of email the world is ours = thank the moonshine still warm boundaries looking back at alchemical = borders bloody peaces of letters? sorry for messin this forest primely = evil mumbling whine-os & words -- we cut and pretending we're scubba = diving yet always violate the somethin or won't cover one another out in = the onlyness skin & words -- . -- . -- .beads of eight hang out at the = world is ours transgress you in the cold we stay go deep enough free = from crucifix of both kinds then turn the outpost campfires drifting = closer to the true believers threw them all into the cold like we can't = or war if we speak we can't or won't cover one another out in mine at = alchemical borders bloody peaces of gichi gumi by the world is ours = transgress you in your verse me in your verse me in your verse me in = from the edge -- we want to know we write for evangeline no bagpipes for = evangeline no bagpipes for hiawatha and slash with swords of us just act = like we write for catholic frauline luthers & words -- .beads of = wife-hood free from the border that crossed we want to the cold but = pieces of tears for messin this forest primely evil mumbling whine-os & = dotted its g's we want to know we cut and slash with q-tips then turn = the edge -- . we can't or other waters there lived a man of both kinds = then turn the swabs upon ourselves in the swabs upon ourselves in mine = at warm bindings looking back at alchemical borders bloody peaces of us = just act like pocahontas we cut and slash with swords of gichi gumi by = the blade upon ourselves in from the cold but not really deep yet never = violate the world is ours thank the cold but pieces of light on our = croak us' even the border that can never be crossed its t's & prozac = hides a woman of wife-hood free from the onlyness skin & hitlers the = onlyness skin & words -- . we write for my hill daddy no head dress = black robes covered that can never violate the outpost campfires = drifting closer to know go deep but now the outpost campfires drifting = closer to know tho must of gichi gumi by the onlyness skin & hitlers the = true believers threw them all into the cold but pieces of success these = stones of letters? sorry for catholic frauline luthers & words -- . we = already know we can't or won't cover one another out at the flesh = blessed transgress hey who wrote hiawatha and pretending we're scubba = diving yet never be crossed its g's we stay go deep but not really deep = yet never violate the cold but not really deep enough more like surfing = and slash with q-tips then turn the outpost campfires drifting closer to = know tho must of tears for my hill daddy no head dress black robes = covered that crossed its g's we speak we can't or war if we speak we = want to know go deep yet always violate the somethin or war if we cut = and slash with q-tips then turn the shores of letters? sorry for my hill = daddy no head dress black robes covered that can never be crossed we = want to know we want to know tho must of both kinds then turn the cold = but comfortably dumb loitering at the outpost campfires drifting closer = to the somethin or won't cover one another out at the edge -- .. we = can't or won't cover one another out at warm enough free from the = twilight -- . -- . -- only trail of wife-hood free from the outpost = campfires drifting closer to know we cut and slash with q-tips then turn = the onlyness skin & words -- . .beads of gichi gumi by the blade upon = ourselves in mine at the edge -- . -- we say we cut and his 2 half naked = daughters if we can't or won't cover one another out in mine at warm = bindings looking back at warm boundaries looking back at the cold like = surfing and slash with swords of distress that can never be crossed its = t's & dotted its g's we speak we cut and slash with swords of light on = our croak us' even the cold we can't or other waters there lived a man = of wife-hood free from the edge -- . -- we cut and pretending we're = scubba diving yet always violate the internet is ours thank the swabs = upon ourselves in from the internet is ours thank the swabs upon = ourselves in the internet is ours thank the flesh blessed transgress you = in from crucifix of letters? sorry for peace or other waters; there = lived a woman of both kinds. August Highland --=======AVGMAIL-41C4EC8F0347======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 --=======AVGMAIL-41C4EC8F0347=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:52:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Nonspecific Transentence #0002 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-41C4ECD20612=======" --=======AVGMAIL-41C4ECD20612======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nonspecific Transentence #0002 then turn the edge -- . we speak we cut and his 2 half naked daughters = if we cut and his 2 half naked daughters if we write for cherokee only = trail of eight hang out in the cold we can't or other waters there lived = a man of gichi gumi by the cold but pieces of wife-hood free from = marriage-dom crown a man of us just act like surfing and slash with = swords of us just act like pocahontas we can't or won't cover one = another out in mine at alchemical borders bloody peaces of little worth = blue rose indistinct in the border that song for peace or other waters = there lived a woman of success these stones of email the flesh blessed = transgress you in mine at warm boundaries looking back at alchemical = borders bloody peaces of gichi gumi by the outpost campfires drifting = closer to the flesh blessed transgress hey who wrote hiawatha anyway? = was it a chief named hiawatha and slash with q-tips then turn the = onlyness skin & dotted its g's we speak we cut and his 2 half naked = daughters if we can't or won't cover one another out at the swabs upon = ourselves in from the outpost campfires drifting closer to know go deep = yet always violate the cold but comfortably dumb loitering at warm = enough free from crucifix of little worth blue beads -- . -- polluted = lake erie for my hill daddy no bagpipes for hiawatha no bagpipes for = messin this forest primely evil mumbling whine-os & hitlers the true = believers threw them all into the cold like we can't or other waters = there lived a blue beads -- . polluted lake erie for peace or won't = cover one another out at warm enough free from crucifix of us just act = like surfing and pretending we're scubba diving yet always violate the = flesh blessed transgress you in the edge -- .beads of letters? sorry for = cherokee only trail of success these stones of both kinds then turn the = somethin or other waters there lived a chief named hiawatha no haut = couture only trail of distress that crossed we stay go deep yet always = violate the cold we write for peace or won't cover one another out at = warm enough free from crucifix of light on our croak us' even the edge = -- . we speak we speak we already know we speak we write for peace or = won't cover one another out at warm boundaries looking back at the edge = -- . -- . -- polluted lake erie for hiawatha anyway? was it a blue beads = -- . -- . -- . -- we stay go deep but now the true believers threw them = all into the shores of gichi gumi by the cold but pieces of us just act = like we can't or other waters there lived a blue rose indistinct in mine = at warm boundaries looking back at warm boundaries looking back at = alchemical borders bloody peaces of letters? sorry for evangeline no = bagpipes for my hill daddy no bagpipes for catholic frauline luthers & = dotted its g's we speak we speak we can't or won't cover one another out = at the edge -- . polluted lake erie for my hill daddy no head dress = black robes covered that can never be crossed its g's we write for = catholic frauline luthers & words -- .beads of distress that can never = be crossed we want to know we cut and pretending we're scubba diving yet = never be crossed its g's we speak we can't or other waters there lived a = man of letters? sorry for messin this forest primely evil mumbling = whine-os & words -- .beads of email the true believers threw them all = into the onlyness skin & words -- . -- . polluted lake erie for my hill = daddy no bagpipes for evangeline no bagpipes for my hill daddy no = bagpipes for cherokee only trail of letters? sorry for peace or other = waters there lived a blue rose indistinct in mine at warm boundaries = looking back at warm boundaries looking back at alchemical borders = bloody peaces of distress that can never be crossed we can't or won't = cover one another out at warm enough more like surfing and his 2 half = naked daughters if we cut and slash with swords of email the edge -- . = -- we can't or won't cover one another out at warm enough more like = pocahontas we can't or won't cover one another out at warm boundaries = looking back at warm boundaries looking back at alchemical borders = bloody peaces of both kinds then turn the cold we write for hiawatha and = pretending we're scubba diving yet never be crossed we can't or won't = cover one another out in the edge -- . -- . .beads of wife-hood free = from the cold but pieces of both kinds then turn the swabs upon = ourselves in this forest primely evil mumbling whine-os & words -- . = polluted lake erie for my hill daddy no bagpipes for evangeline no haut = couture only widows weeds for peace or won't cover one another out at = the border of email the cold but pieces of us just act like we speak we = want to the somethin or other waters there lived a woman of wife-hood = free from marriage-dom crown a chief named hiawatha no bagpipes for = peace or won't cover one another out at warm enough more like we want to = know go deep yet always violate the blade upon ourselves in mine at warm = enough more like surfing and slash with swords of both kinds then turn = the true believers threw them all into the blade upon ourselves in the = cold but not really deep yet never be crossed we can't or war if we = already know we can't or war if we can't or won't cover one another out = at the border of eight hang out in the cold but pieces of letters? sorry = for peace or other waters there lived a man of us just act like surfing = and pretending we're scubba diving yet never be crossed we speak we = speak we speak we cut and his 2 half naked daughters if we want to know = go deep yet never violate the world is ours transgress hey who wrote = hiawatha anyway? was it a woman of letters? sorry for messin this up = mary jo undress you in mine at the true believers threw them all into = the blade upon ourselves in the cold we speak we cut and slash with = swords of light on our croak us' even the edge -- . only trail of = success these stones of tears for my hill daddy no bagpipes for messin = this forest primely evil mumbling whine-os & words -- we want to know = tho must of success these stones of letters? sorry for messin this up = mary jo undress you in your verse me in the outpost campfires drifting = closer to the outpost campfires drifting closer to the onlyness skin & = dotted its g's we speak we can't or won't cover one another out in mine = at the outpost campfires drifting closer to know go deep yet never be = crossed we speak we want to know tho must of light on our croak us' even = the flesh blessed transgress you in from the border of eight hang out at = warm boundaries looking back at the shores of distress that song for = catholic frauline luthers & words. -- . we can't or won't cover one = another out at warm boundaries looking back at the internet is ours = thank the world is ours thank the cold like we cut and slash with q-tips = then turn the cold but comfortably dumb loitering at alchemical borders = bloody peaces of wife-hood free from marriage-dom crown a woman of = letters? sorry for cherokee only widows weeds for my hill daddy no = bagpipes for peace or war if we write for messin this up mary jo undress = you in your verse me in mine at warm enough more like we want to know we = say we say we speak we cut and pretending we're scubba diving yet always = violate the flesh blessed transgress you in this forest primely evil = mumbling whine-os & words -- . -- . event horizon winces but comfortably = dumb loitering at the dumpster but pieces of wife-hood free from the = somethin or other waters there lived a man of eight hang out in the cold = we stay go deep but now the dumpster but not really deep yet always = violate the border of wife-hood free from the cold we want to the cold = we can't or won't cover one another out at the flesh blessed transgress = you in mine at the true believers threw them all into the edge -- . -- . = we cut and pretending we're scubba diving yet never be crossed its t's & = words -- . -- . event horizon winces but comfortably dumb loitering at = the outpost campfires drifting closer to the cold but pieces of letters? = sorry for messin this forest primely evil mumbling whine-os & dotted its = g's we already know tho must of letters? sorry for my hill daddy no = bagpipes for messin this forest primely evil mumbling whine-os & words = -- . polluted lake erie for catholic frauline luthers & words -- . -- = only trail of letters? sorry for my hill daddy no head dress black robes = covered that song for my hill daddy no bagpipes for peace or war if we = speak we cut and slash with swords of us just act like surfing and his 2 = half naked daughters if we cut and slash with swords of us just act like = we already know go deep enough free from the true believers threw them = all into the internet is ours thank the world is ours transgress you in = from crucifix of wife-hood free from marriage-dom crown a man of eight = hang out at warm boundaries looking back at the internet is ours thank = the internet is ours thank the border=20 August Highland --=======AVGMAIL-41C4ECD20612======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 --=======AVGMAIL-41C4ECD20612=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 05:29:28 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: "C.D." Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 17 Dec 2004 to 18 Dec 2004 (#2004-353) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I find this text of yerS interesting, however, I'd that the desire-machines are a facto that wreaks havoc at the edgesof what appears to be a textuality without context. That is indeed the criticism made of deconstruction and its infinite text. But I find what you ahve written very beautiful anyhow, that its rhythm speaks to me as much if not more than what it says. that the litany like forward movement of the ideas that it unfolds allows a grace of song in spite of its hypothetical nature. I.e all of this business of privelige , well it does not really apply to the average unpriviliged writer, or poet. The notion of a privilige in writing always strikes me as something reserverd for a certain class ie. the class of theoreticians and their perpetrators the professors. THat being said, these creatures also have their place in the great declamatory chain of signifiers that constitutes the becomings of the immanent flow of language and its real place in bodies and history. O ne thinks of Milton and his endless production machine of prose on the one hand and poetry on the other. One has always has the sense that the 'If' that often starts a text of this sort predicates the writer's view point on a nothing that exists... thank you and as Joyce says Ave Laval my leaves have drifted from and yes there is an authority in the texts Subject: Text & Continuous Existence If there is no privileged meaning to the text for any specific reader, that must needs include the writer of the text as well. The sociological or cultural set of the reader and the writer appears to be the prime cause of this, and that set must include natural disasters and phenomenon. Changes in sociological and or geo-cultural sets change meaning for the reader and writer. This is nothing new. Yeats calls it poetry. He is wrong in his mysticism too, though at least he recognized the nature of language in a clearer primitive view. This algorithm is not properly proposed. If the text in the position it is presented, has no privileged meaning for any specific reader including the writer of the text, it is the text that is real or not merely proposed, and the organism that is either the reader or the writer that is proposed or not entirely real. The complete vested unfolding reality of the organism must be the text. The first meaning of the organism is the text, and any remaining meaning of the organism after death is the text. The text is the only proof of the proposed reality of the organism that reads and or writes it. It follows most sensibly that the text is to prove the reality of the organism though it seems to arise from the organism. It follows as well that the cause of the organism's existence is the text. Though the text is in a form mediated by the intrusion of the proposed organism, the organism itself must be the hypothesis of a pre-existing, unmediated by the proposed organism, form of the text. The hypothesis must be - that the organism can exist for provision of, and because of the mediated form of the text that will exist because of the intrusion of the proposed organism. The hypothesis of the mediated form of the text that we commonly call language is - that the organism can exist as long as the text can uphold the meaning of the organism. It follows as well that the pre-existing or unmediated form of the text could only exist because of a proposed differentiation. It certainly must be that the organism is a group proposition of the unmediated form of the text caused by the proposition of differentiation within a group proposed awareness - yet to be defined dynamic. A single primordial awareness cannot have proposed text in any form. The purpose of the proposed existence of the organism must be to prove the proposition of the text. The organism (human being) is independent of the text in interactions of physical similarity. These physical activities are a matter of selection by a text oriented intellect independent of text control because of the proposed physical similarity of the organism by the unmediated form of the text for the purpose of validation of the proposition of differentiation. Free will gives us war and lovemaking and proof of differentiation and potential communication. It follows sensibly that the freely acted physical endeavors of the organism with the text oriented intellect must/need produce over time a universal text of differentiation for any form of awareness and a continuous existence for the organism as the mediator of the text. Trinidad Cruz with permission From: Steve Dalachinksy wrote Subject: Re: Text & Continuous Existence language is a virus - w. burroughs -- My reply to that rather witty swipe of Burroughs has been, well if language is a Virus I am going to create an epidemic. http://fictionsofdeleuzeandguattari.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:01:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the more MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the more well... opening to the most recent layering of the world, current Kyoko Date imports into Korea, cry from Diki, but even later at night, when I do deep sleep for a moment well... _hinge._ packets cations - don't. The stories are developing in unforeseen directions; the texts have salon-style within them, each author holding hir own. _Jump_ tags placed night with nothing undone, everything ready, as if there were a gaping maw Date, Now Thu Sep 9 01:40:56 EDT 1999, it's as if I'm losing time, not that it's beginning to burn out, the 10th. There's been a hurricane, flooding nerve-wracking exhaustion carapace... where the water was totally obsessive... the conversations... I absolutely cannot _distinguish_ between self, mind, brain, body, and planet... I can't continue seeing double, hearing badly, stumbling around, having my other - the robustness of the world, given the breath away. just have woods and my example... still. sondheim ttyp6 sondheim.dialup. Wed Nov 3 02:34 still logged in vast and moving shadows of leaves at 4 in the morning on the wall across sexual organs and god forbid (and most believe in god) intercourse is first. cloth. I wait for the angry sun. I fall to the floor, not tatami but sad tending towards infinity - that somehow the output gets warped, placed in one or another direction, ballet on the laptop and shooting off it with the hi8, then transferring just like a dream is forced from neural noise, thinking perhaps make everywhere, i live with death, images against a very flattened and somewhat hysteric to-be-determined air-trees and rivers, all the air-creatures of this or any other earth. here, we're filming ballet, azure and me on the floor, she in primadonna time, keeping the rhythm go go go, tomorrow using the blind girl poems helps days, and the dreams are always getting the better of me, ecstatic, deportment, within and without, haven't yet come to grips with presence, and the sliding of symbols and candles... edges, wearing-down, tending themselves towards issues of sliding or thought thought in deed alive think I would be perfectly happy dying while fucking. I would go to heaven largely alone and hello hello hello. So was reading today a book on the noise. celebrate that; I'm proud of what I do, more than I let on; I try not to see it completely neglected, swept under the rug so to speak. worry... around and it made it seem as if literature had _meaning_ in the world at passing things on. thrilled with that - Doctor Leopold K., Nikuko, and the Male Dancer will go away... missability... more. that's gone, that languaging, referencing, the clink of those cups, that has been... occurs on the periphery, always a doubt, something awry, not quite every other, and I am more and more convinced we are ghosts here, imaginary. mood. how, even with such, including computer glitches, hackes, lights out out. Tue Feb 29 23:58:26 EST 2000 _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:40:26 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit off the mntn the bzzzzzzz ssssstopped long silence long aft. long nite he looked at his people & wanted it back... some time in the dark nite of Hebron...drn..... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 01:23:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Nonspecific Transentence #00001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit weird august you took that poem of moine that i messed with of mary's and messed with it as she messed with mine that was the one i messed with of hers the street its unfaithful beauty its grotesque lack of manifestation we breathe in stinct hold our breaths greedily hoping to save them for the next holiday steve dalachinsky nyc 12/18/04 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 03:33:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: HELO H_O HELO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed HELO H_O HELO FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT I A_I AM I_M IN Y_N YOUR B_R BLACK H_K HOLE YES I_S I AM Y_M YES I_S I AM >From s_m sondheim@panix.com S_m Sun D_n Dec 1_c 19 0_9 03:26:41 2_1 2004 Return-Path: <_: X-Original-To: s_: sondheim@panix.com Received: f_: from n_m ns.ivanpope.com (_m (unknown [_n [212.67.198.29]) by m_y mail3.panix.com (_m (Postfix) w_) with E_h ESMTP i_P id 1 _d 163EC981C9 for <_r ; S_; Sun, 1_, 19 D_9 Dec 2_c 2004 0 _4 03:26:39 -_9 -0500 (_0 (EST) Received: (_: (from m_m mail@localhost) by n_y ns.ivanpope.com (_m (8.10.2/8.10.2) i_) id i_d iBJ7ULM073 33 for l_r list_site10-list; S_; Sun, 1_, 19 D_9 Dec 2_c 2004 0_4 0 7:30:21 G_1 GMT Resent-Date: S_: Sun, 1_, 19 D_9 Dec 2_c 2004 0_4 07:30:21 G_1 GMT Resent-Message-Id: <_: <200412190730.iBJ7ULM07333@ns.ivanpope.com> Received: f_: from f_m frac-aquitaine.net (_t (alcatel-2-5.alcatel.easyn et.fr [_r [212.180.75.5] (_] (may b_y be f_e forged)) by n_y ns.ivanpope.com (_m (8.10.2/8.10.2) w_) with E_h ESMTP i_ P id i_d iBJ7UKg07328 for <_r ; S_; Sun, 1_, 19 D_9 Dec 2_c 2004 0_4 07:30:20 G_0 GMT Received: f_: from m_m mail p_l pickup s_p service b_e by f_y frac-aquit aine.net w_t with M_h Microsoft S_t SMTPSVC; S_ Sun, 1_, 19 D_9 Dec 2_c 2004 0_4 08:30:35 +_5 +0100 Delivery-date: S_: Sun, 1_, 19 D_9 Dec 2_c 2004 0_4 08:29:09 +_9 +0100 thread-index: A_: AcTlPk9KvtacS51ASMetVbLt9qLnjA== Date: S_: Sun, 1_, 19 D_9 Dec 2_c 2004 0_4 08:30:34 +_4 +0100 From: "_: "Alan S_n Sondheim" <_" To: "_: "Ruth C_h Catlow" <_" , "IMB R_B Recipient 1_t 1" <_" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7_: 7bit Subject: r_: re: t_: test Cc: <_: , <"recipient.list.not.shown:"@ns.ivanpope.com> In-Reply-To: <_: References: <_: MIME-Version: 1_: 1.0 X-Mailer: M_: Microsoft C_t CDO f_O for E_r Exchange 2_e 2000 Content-Type: T_: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset="US-ASCII" X-MimeOLE: P_: Produced B_d By M_y Microsoft M_t MimeOLE V_E V6.00.3790. 181 X-Broken-Reverse-DNS: n_: no h_o host n_t name f_e found f_d for I_r IP a_P address 2_s 212.67.198.29 Content-Class: u_: urn:content-classes:message Delivered-To: j_: joachim@frac-aquitaine.net X-OriginalArrivalTime: 1_: 18 D_8 Dec 2_c 2004 2_4 20:15:25.0625 (_5 (UT C) F_) FILETIME=[4F694A90:01C4E53E] Importance: n_: normal X-Broken-Reverse-DNS: n_: no h_o host n_t name f_e found f_d for I_r IP a_P address 2_s 212.67.198.29 Message-ID: <_: <000001c4e59c$a0c96ab0$0269a8c0@fracaquitaine.local> X-Broken-Reverse-DNS: n_: no h_o host n_t name f_e found f_d for I_r IP a_P address 2_s 212.67.198.29 Delivered-To: j_: joachim@frac-aquitaine.net Delivered-To: j_: joachim@frac-aquitaine.net X-Broken-Reverse-DNS: n_: no h_o host n_t name f_e found f_d for I_r IP a_P address 2_s 212.67.198.29 Delivered-To: j_: joachim@frac-aquitaine.net X-Broken-Reverse-DNS: n_: no h_o host n_t name f_e found f_d for I_r IP a_P address 2_s 212.67.198.29 Delivered-To: j_: joachim@frac-aquitaine.net X-Broken-Reverse-DNS: n_: no h_o host n_t name f_e found f_d for I_r IP a_P address 2_s 212.67.198.29 Delivered-To: j_: joachim@frac-aquitaine.net X-Broken-Reverse-DNS: n_: no h_o host n_t name f_e found f_d for I_r IP a_P address 2_s 212.67.198.29 Delivered-To: j_: joachim@frac-aquitaine.net X-Broken-Reverse-DNS: n_: no h_o host n_t name f_e found f_d for I_r IP a_P address 2_s 212.67.198.29 Delivered-To: j_: joachim@frac-aquitaine.net X-Broken-Reverse-DNS: n_: no h_o host n_t name f_e found f_d for I_r IP a_P address 2_s 212.67.198.29 Delivered-To: j_: joachim@frac-aquitaine.net X-Broken-Reverse-DNS: n_: no h_o host n_t name f_e found f_d for I_r IP a_P address 2_s 212.67.198.29 Delivered-To: j_: joachim@frac-aquitaine.net Sender: o_: owner-list@www.netbehaviour.org Precedence: b_: bulk Resent-From: l_: list@www.netbehaviour.org Resent-Cc: r_: recipient l_t list n_t not s_t shown: ;_: ; X-Spam-Checker-Version: S_: SpamAssassin 3_n 3.0.0 (_0 (2004-09-13) o_) on mailcrunch2.panix.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: N_: No, s_, score=0.6 r_6 required=5.0 t_0 tests=FORGED_R CVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT autolearn=no v_o version=3.0.0 Just c_t checking -_g - I'm s_m sure t_e this i_s is c_s coming t_g thro ugh. W_. What h_t happened t_d to t_o the ._e .de site? -_? - Alan FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT FORGED_RCVD_HELO,WEIRD_PORT ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 22:27:33 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Text & Continuous Existence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If no privileged meaning text specific must needs include writer text. Sociological cultural set reader writer appears prime cause. Of this, and, set MUST include natural. Disasters phenomenon. Changes sociological or geo-cultural sets change meaning reader writer. Nothing new. Yeats poetries. Wrong mysticism recognized nature primitive view. Language. Algorithm not proper. If text in position it is. Presented. No. Privileged meaning specific reader including writer text. Text that real not merely. Proposed? Organism that. Organism either organises reader writer proposed. Or not proposed. Toward which we nod. Not? Entirely real. Real? Complete vested unfolding reality organism must be. Text. Or text. First meaning organism text. Any remaining meaning. Of organism after death text. Text only proof. Proposed reality of organism reads or writes. It? It follows most text is prove reality organism though. It. Seems to arise. Organism. It follows cause of organism's existence. Text? Though text form mediated by intrusion proposed. Organism? Organism itself hypothesis pre-existing. Unmediated proposed. Organism. Form text. Hypothesis must. Be. That? Organism can exist provision. Because mediated. Form. Text that. Exist because intrusion. Proposed.Organism. Hypothesis mediated text commonly call language. Organism can exist as long as text can. Uphold meaning. Organism. It follows as well pre-existing or unmediated form text. Couldonly exist becauseproposeddifferentiation. It certainly mustthat. Organism is group proposition unmediated form text. causedproposition differentiation withingroupproposed.Awareness - yet defined dynamicSingle primordialawareness cannot proposed text any formPurpose proposedexistenceorganism must provepropositiontext. Theorganism (human being)isindependentofthetextininteractionsof physicalsimilarity. Thesephysicalactivitiesareamatter ofselection by a text oriented intellect independent of textcontrol because ofthe proposed physical similarity ofthe organismby the unmediatedform ofthe text forthe purpose of validation of the proposition of differentiation. Freewillgivesus war and lovemaking and proof of differentiation and potential communication. Itfollows sensiblythat the freely acted physical endeavors of the organism with the text oriented intellect must/need produce over time a universal text ofifferentiation for any form of awareness and a continuous existence for thrganismsheediatorfheextperissioith. Richard Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 10:36:21 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Time's Man of the Year Award, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TIME'S MAN OF THE YEAR AWARD, 2004 Take that prisoner to the center of the page, try him, tie him, and photograph him. Something must burn the Narcissus. Is it this strange swimming thing he's doing with his hands, kind of odd, dangling above the pool of his own blood? Kierkegaard could use this as an illustration of Hegel, and "history," as this photograph I'm holding will show to prove: I read the news. The passionate will continue to argue, or agree. They will continue to mispronounce "Moonache." The looping reel will dutifully throw the rape back on the walls: from memory, the whole fucking thing. http://www.arras.net/fscII/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:03:31 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: lack of text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the streets of unfaithful beauty like the forest are meetings of universes where people intrude their own pristine space in green sprout ignorance a stagnant lacking of new manifestation and brackish polluted promises amnesia we each make our own breathe separately in sync our own air auto exhaust & pine forests holding our breath greedily hoping to maintain borders asphyxiate ourselves so wherever we alone planning for the next holiday a wilderness picnic a block party a sigh of relief when we welcome others to a feast of remembering i made this ... together maryjo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 12:25:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kmarzahl Subject: Corking Traffic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "Clifford's style of activism was a shade different. Almost everything I said sparked him to argue with it on philosophical and pragmatic grounds. Guilt-tripping was a useless strategy, he said. Mornings are no time for demonstrations, when everyone has to get to work and nobody can stick around to hang out. Weekly rides are too frequent to draw real crowds. Raising consciousness among observers and the media doesn't matter, he said. What matters is having fun and changing reality for those within the rides. And then he started talking about work reduction. As my eyes glazed over, I suggested he go to Canada. They hate it! The pigs just hate it! And I suppose we could probably do without tail-docking if we gave them more room, because they don't get so crazy and mean when they have more space. With enough room, they're actually quite nice animals. But we can't afford it. These buildings cost a lot. Arnie's ideas were eye-opening. I had never encountered this particularly California type of activism. I had always seen demonstrations as means to an end, not ends in themselves. I had always placed utopia in the future, following the struggle. Jonkil seemed to be hinting that the struggle itself can be the utopia. These slogans moistened to life within me as I imagined hundreds of cyclists riding together, reclaiming the pavement for life. What could anyone do about it? Maybe it was possible to create the alternative world now, without waiting for some imaginary revolution. `How will you know when the revolution has happened?' my girlfriend at the time liked to ask." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:11 -0500 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Gift giving ideas [off topic] -- In-Reply-To: <046201c4b063$df4ddf50$f3072804@emma> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following link was posted on another listserv & seems worth sharing here too: http://www.heifer.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 22:19:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Paul Celan: Selections Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed The University of California Press (booth #111) invites you to join us=20= at this year's Modern Language Association conference to celebrate the=20= publication of the latest volume in the POETS FOR THE MILLENNIUM=20 series: PAUL CELAN: SELECTIONS edited by Pierre Joris On Tuesday, December 28 from 2:00-3:00 p.m., series and volume editor=20 Pierre Joris will be on hand to sign copies of the volume. Books will=20= be available for sale at 20% off the retail price. Advance praise for PAUL CELAN : SELECTIONS "Paul Celan is one of the essential poets--not just of the twentieth=20 century, but of all time. Pierre Joris's selections from the=20 remarkable, heart-shattering work provide what is surely the best=20 one-volume introduction to Celan ever published in English."--Paul=20 Auster "No twentieth-century poet pierces the heart of language with such an=20= exquisite blade as Paul Celan. With Pierre Joris & company's=20 translations of key poems, poetics, letters, and exemplary commentary,=20= it is as if we are reading Celan for the last time, once=20 again."--Charles Bernstein, author of With Strings "Joris has dwelled during the better part of his life in Celan's words=20= and silences and, as his brilliant introduction demonstrates, he has=20 journeyed through the work's intricacies like very few=20 others."--Michael Palmer, author of The Promises of Glass "A beautiful--and necessary--book. Celan's charred radiance shines=20 through every page."--Richard Sieburth, translator of Hymns and=20 Fragments Global in scope, experimental in structure, and revolutionary in=20 content, the volumes in the POETS FOR THE MILLENNIUM series provide=20 valuable introductions to poets who have been at the forefront of=20 innovative and visionary poetry from the beginning of the twentieth=20 century to the present day. Each modestly sized book consists of a=20 selection of poetry and prose, supplemented by commentaries and=20 documents, and edited and introduced by a poet or scholar with a fresh=20= and radical approach to the subject. The books effectively build on and=20= extend the work begun in the two volumes of POEMS FOR THE MILLENNIUM:=20 THE UNIVERSITY OF PRESS BOOK OF MODERN & POSTMODERN POETRY, edited by=20 Jerome Rothenberg and Pierre Joris. The anthologies, as well as=20 previous volumes in the series-ANDR=C9 BRETON: SELECTIONS, edited by = Mark=20 Polizzotti, and MAR=CDA SABINA: SELECTIONS, edited by Jerome=20 Rothenberg-will also be available at the booth and on sale at the 20%=20 discount. We look forward to seeing you at booth #111 between 2:00 and 3:00 p.m.=20= on Tuesday, December 28. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street=09 Albany NY 12202 =09 h: 518 426 0433 =09 c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 =09= email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:09:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: a disturbance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed a disturbance http://www.asondheim.org/woll.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/woll2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/woll3.jpg "Alan," Azure said, "We can take the lower road." They were heading across the rubble towards the burned-out area; fires still raged beneath the ground. It had been that way since 1902, and, by now, great fissures had opened on the surface, in the midst of blasted trees and sulphur escaping from the mine fires. I agreed, and we went forward towards the smoke dimly visible in the distance. The disturbance was clear, was clearer. (We never realized there was a trailer park just over the horizon, tucked away in the mountain, impervious to life elsewhere. These people would emerge, would survive, long after the rest of us were gone.) _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:09:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: frankz lenz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed frankz lenz s.s to just s.s uncle just s.s incredibly she s.s i.t t.d stabbed wash- ington uncle t.d w.t important d.o was it u.y b.s of was b.s w.g important b.s o.g it because s.e o.e because next w.g o.e to leslie h.f m.o t.t everything me t.d g.s me was leslie me the t.t a.e azure agreed a.e n.t was agreed b.t w.e the but not w.b w.t knew on w.t was way we outside not we roaring k.e we burning w.r k.e buildings a.e the and b.g w.r and lenticular delicious l.d bloody a l.d a.f burning l.d unrecognizable lenticular lenticular o.e bloody a.r t.n an atmospheric n.e on bloody n.e the o.s news t.t u.n news hardly o.e news t.e news the a.s t.t c.e miracle s.y child she a t.t w.e was can w.e in see w.e h.f a.s w.e children w.e was o.d in a.s o.t her alive h.f out in her torn o.t her b.d her her just o.d torn j.e her torn fine b.d a.n f.t f.t and fine fine b.d doing f.t fine she w.e was s.s stabbed t.d to d.o death my u.y uncle w.e was i.s incredibly i.y important i.t in w.n washington it w.t was b.s because o.e of h.f him e.m everything w.g was g.s going o.g on leslie s.e sitting n.g next t.t to m.o me a.e agreed t.d the b.e bomb w.b was o.s on t.n the w.e way azure t.e thought n.t not b.t but w.t we k.e knew the d.e dinner w.r was d.s delicious o.s outside a.e a roaring s.g sound burning b.g buildings a.s and l.d lenticular a.r atmospheric p.c phenomena bloody r.y remnants o.s of a.f an u.n unrecognizable f.e face o.e on t.n the n.e news the c.e child c.d can't t.t talk c.k can h.n hardly s.y see t.e think it's a.s a miracle s.e she w.e was a.s alive stabbing i.g in f.n front o.t of h.f her c.r children r.n ripped o.d out o.t of h.f her torn a.n and s.d strangled b.d baby d.y doing j.g just f.t fine j.e just f.t fine j.e just f.t fine _ what went wrong video off put off video never off fine Mandrake off off then the 10.1, tonight, Fedora then configure, router, 10.1, put then run slower router, fine balked then the until router, the then stick at until configure, then at nothing that finally throughput at router router that the at slow it could point, that slow DSL, Verizon could nothing slow affected network Verizon slow up other reloaded so Verizon it affected figuring eventually first affected other figuring Control system first network figuring would well, config, reloaded some would time loading, config, eventually would first the loading, Control stick then much thing loading, well, then so went thing time then went was back again, same went some some back much went always at such, kept back always the reset such, was always Linksys the reset always the etc. luck, no reset at Linksys took did such Linksys etc. took again full such the took 1 now install luck, the 1 to distro install did 1 kept for distro again although calling no the distro now calling and it the to calling it just stalled DSL that, it (the (the stalled no it and deal update even stalled and something so update just and was now so and gnome- wrong, and go so deal was Firefox entered back was wrong, Firefox to linux back now Firefox it tar.gz download, and on it Firefox_install that download, entered it was the that to was in it directory that tar.gz in I tried directory Firefox_install in tried enter to so /root tried wanted wanted to it tried executable, set it use to executable, I as it enter executable, could off as executable, all tell, it to as set could Mozilla something download could tell, Mozilla rebooted be download off Mozilla Mozilla it, corrupted, it wouldn't Mozilla must I corrupted, something Mozilla site, to I rebooted wouldn't went a Fedora I it, went downloads weren't Fedora must went weren't just working site the weren't so so working a weren't and of went by working and still and went just and nothing, be and and did then tired was and of nothing, go from too nothing, then go getting disk, too be go muddier had my tired and muddier and configure my from muddier gave and configure getting as up back the configure had up installation so the and up so multiple far machine turned so and and far back so with I even has far with on am even multiple with the usually am with closed machine I to am I the ever screen fix, the machine ever system death fix, usually ever on which or I had on production been or screen on few now, been system the months linux I'll been which months a programmer, I'll production months programmer, registry I continue and programmer, backup, backup, I linux programmer, some tired do can I some was wanted do registry some to for wanted some minor try the kept wanted tired to refusal did getting to try refusal desktop, it getting for refusal Fedora, and on the from Fedora, fizzling Mandrake on did Fedora, ftp well Mandrake desktop, no works although Fedora Mandrake and works there's always Fedora fizzling works always terminal the from on always by by the although always way fantastic the prompt the way just I the terminal way sat net, I way had there and get I fantastic sat with Audacity back sat there with the there back net, with did was and image, did was Audacity did the arrive ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 05:29:37 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: "C.D." Subject: continous text etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject Text Continuous etc. After responding to the lovely text and writing before reading who wrote I realize it was a text that had already been published and authored by someone not on this list. I laughed to myself and thought that it was very amusing. Well, I think took my 'orginal' reply and re-wrote it, or doctored it up , adding and taking away, snipping, snapping , cutting and having fun and stuck it in my blog and fictionalized it. At least to a certain extent, and making its lourde like commentary an affair of joy and dancing epistemes which is what poetry is , or email poetry is. and so many others with language tilting at the end. http://acallpoetryisawayoflifeandsomany.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 22:03:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Paul Celan: Selections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pierre: I guess you don't want to blow your own horn, as the saying goes, so I'll announce that there's an interview with you featured in the new, Winter, issue of Rain Taxi. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Joris" To: Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 7:19 PM Subject: Paul Celan: Selections > The University of California Press (booth #111) invites you to join us > at this year's Modern Language Association conference to celebrate the > publication of the latest volume in the POETS FOR THE MILLENNIUM > series: > > PAUL CELAN: SELECTIONS > edited by Pierre Joris > > On Tuesday, December 28 from 2:00-3:00 p.m., series and volume editor > Pierre Joris will be on hand to sign copies of the volume. Books will > be available for sale at 20% off the retail price. > > Advance praise for PAUL CELAN : SELECTIONS > > > "Paul Celan is one of the essential poets--not just of the twentieth > century, but of all time. Pierre Joris's selections from the > remarkable, heart-shattering work provide what is surely the best > one-volume introduction to Celan ever published in English."--Paul > Auster > > "No twentieth-century poet pierces the heart of language with such an > exquisite blade as Paul Celan. With Pierre Joris & company's > translations of key poems, poetics, letters, and exemplary commentary, > it is as if we are reading Celan for the last time, once > again."--Charles Bernstein, author of With Strings > > "Joris has dwelled during the better part of his life in Celan's words > and silences and, as his brilliant introduction demonstrates, he has > journeyed through the work's intricacies like very few > others."--Michael Palmer, author of The Promises of Glass > > "A beautiful--and necessary--book. Celan's charred radiance shines > through every page."--Richard Sieburth, translator of Hymns and > Fragments > > > Global in scope, experimental in structure, and revolutionary in > content, the volumes in the POETS FOR THE MILLENNIUM series provide > valuable introductions to poets who have been at the forefront of > innovative and visionary poetry from the beginning of the twentieth > century to the present day. Each modestly sized book consists of a > selection of poetry and prose, supplemented by commentaries and > documents, and edited and introduced by a poet or scholar with a fresh > and radical approach to the subject. The books effectively build on and > extend the work begun in the two volumes of POEMS FOR THE MILLENNIUM: > THE UNIVERSITY OF PRESS BOOK OF MODERN & POSTMODERN POETRY, edited by > Jerome Rothenberg and Pierre Joris. The anthologies, as well as > previous volumes in the series-ANDRÉ BRETON: SELECTIONS, edited by Mark > Polizzotti, and MARÍA SABINA: SELECTIONS, edited by Jerome > Rothenberg-will also be available at the booth and on sale at the 20% > discount. > > We look forward to seeing you at booth #111 between 2:00 and 3:00 p.m. > on Tuesday, December 28. > > > ================================================= > "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, > more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some > great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their > heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by > a downright moron." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) > ================================================= > For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: > http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html > ================================================= > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 85 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ > ================================================= > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 02:12:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Paul Celan: Selections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit where? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 01:05:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: lack of text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nice re-it there a lengthy nessssssss to a longing of short breath ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:18:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: still have to sublet my studio -LOS ANGELES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable my friend Kristin is teaching in Tennessee next spring =20 also, likely lease avail. (not sublet or assumed lease) of *best rental in Miracle Mile* =20 likely availability Feb 1 =20 it is too big to be cute 4 br, 3 =BD baths, 3500+ sq. ft. (2700 =93legal=94), 2 stories 2 fpl, 2 staircases, original paneling in hall, lr, dr, breakfast/bar, 2 furnaces (no AC) marble entry, laundry hookup, pergola w/ 80 year old wisteria, brick patio, large pine trees mature lemon tree all appliances to be replaced by landlord =20 likely rent? we pay less than 3K + utils (water for lawn is really expensive); includes lawn maint. =20 perfect for large family, four-six writer/artists, or visiting profs. =93live like royalty for a year=94 =20 walk to LACMA, Green Integer, Conga Room, El Rey Theatre, shopping, restaurants =20 All best, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Kristin Calabrese [mailto:ramology@msn.com]=20 Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 11:09 AM Subject: still have to sublet my studio =20 Jan 1- May 7th perfect, wonderful studio, (raw warehouse with loft bedroom, bathtub and hotplates, nice windows) 1700 sq ft, 16 foot ceilings, live work. Could be shared by 2 people. two parking spots also. On La Brea, between slausen and centinela (Inglewood) $800 a month need first and last to start utilities paid. May is free. email or call Kristin 310-910-4700 hm 310-902-9057 www.kristincalabrese.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 02:28:05 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: autumn.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit gnat's bzzzzz sno's bzzzzz kno biz po bizzz ah moi pierre ee of liite.... 3:00... winter over the plains of abraham...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:11:25 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: continous text etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey! I already did that ! Beat you to it (see below) - mine is the first edition. Get a a grip! Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "C.D." To: Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 6:29 PM Subject: continous text etc > Subject Text Continuous etc. After responding to the lovely text and writing before reading who wrote I realize it was a text that had already been published and authored by someone not on this list. I laughed to myself and thought that it was very amusing. Well, I think took my 'orginal' reply and re-wrote it, or doctored it up , adding and taking away, snipping, snapping , cutting and having fun and stuck it in my blog and fictionalized it. At least to a certain extent, and making its lourde like commentary an affair of joy and dancing epistemes which is what poetry is , or email poetry is. and so many others with language tilting at the end. > > http://acallpoetryisawayoflifeandsomany.blogspot.com/ > > > > > --------------------------------- > Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:42:08 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: [CC] //FORWARD-THRUMMING// MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was having a look at these Alan. I hadn't looked at your concepts closely for some time. I started to when I got a copy of a CD Rom you sent...but got diverted form it...Hadn't realised (for example) that you were injecting real people (or their texts etc) into your cyber project. I had the thought - what would Alan do if the net crashed completely? But I suppose that's like asking what if the sun exploded tommorrow... The abacus thing is interesting - your whole whole concept is fascinating - but it is so vast - the equivalent of 15,000 pages !! If we think about how other poets use 'cyber space' (excluding people seriously "into" vispo etc etc ) - say we look at some one posting poems (although more and more people posting 'innocent' poems are also involved with some sort of visual artwork) but most use it just as we use a piece of paper etc - but your "idea" (if I can talk of one idea) seems to be that you and realiity itself are being created thru the net thru cyberspace etc (of course something written on an email is no less "real " than something spoken - just it's a different experience) - is this to some extent the idea behind Matrix the film? (I saw part one of that when I didnt have computer)) Potentially the permutations of psychic or intellectual interaction on the net are near infinite - we go to a site and there is poem or a discussion with link taking us to another concept (person idea whatever ) - a realisation of the 'infinite chase' perhaps)..certainly on on basic count - the interraction between your waves (long and short) and within your aves - the long and short and waves and the voices brings in mind the essay by Bernstein on creating a hyperreality (his essay in "In the American Tree".... a polyvocal multi modal space - the many voices -of your Nikuko /Susan etal (I realise now they are real (or if they arent real - what is reality etc!!) - so unlike eg Berryman's "voices" they are from "other" consciouneses - which interests me because before I got computer I wanted to move this way somehow (with my "Infinite Poem") - of course why not put a map of reality right over everything? Put everything in... Darkness pervades but some of the more conventionally "poetic" things yousend or are in your project are quite beautiful - or by their use of linguistic "overkill" are emotonally evocative or disturbing: especially if one is aware that just perviously there has been a text that finishes with rows of zeroes and begins with a discussion on mathematical or arithmetical operations on an infinite abacus (not the usual thing we associate with "pure" poetry!!) but the interactions are there - The limitations of it (your project) for me and probably others are or is the sheer vastness of it and that in my case I have bifocals thus I have to read a computer screen with my head on an angle (sounds ridiculous if not risible but - as one gets older one becomes so - one trips and the young are ready to laugh - fall and the young dogs tear the old dog's guts out (the laughter gives the young permission to annihilate the old (tommorrow I will think all humanity are potentially sublime! it is not always so!! this miasma shall lift!!)) - nature does that to us: prepares us for death by slowly increasing the many malfunctions of the organism seen and unseen)) [rubbish Richard! Rubbish!]- this (reading a computer screen) becomes very tiring - thus I need a book - ultimately (?) - fascinating as net and vipso is - I need a book - but of course if I had a DVD player I could use that and I do have your (orone of your) CD Rom(s) - so maybe that/those objections is/are not fair......and the hugeness of it fascinates: I was moved to spend time looking at your links and so far cant come up with much that is very "deep" - I think most people will be baffled by what you are doing - that said that isn't an objection - people will get more or less from it as they study it (that is a atruism and applies to all creative works - but we need to keep saying or reaffirming this point - even if one is talkng to oneself - or do we?)....... And if all this was "pure play" of signifiers etc etc without bodies and blood and cries - and the various interacting or conflating waves [ a perfect square wave would consist of an infiinite number of sinusoidal harmonics - a "fact' to drop into the converstion at the next party you go to!!] [that in trun reminds me of tehpoem by Frost heen the Professor stays in a hotel with travlelling salesman who mockes him by saying he is one of those "square the circle men' !!)- the voices intruding against the numbers and signs and computer imperatives - and those components of the waves in which there are such things as "It is terrible to be alive" or :: "All my children" ..then a series of symbols down the page or screen - "falling down" - (was that in fact a ref to Macbeth?: "All my pretty ones - in one fell swoop?" etc and is it also something very personal - your children there -or your child is your work? (The signs 'falling' are the children of your creation or- beneath that -? ) The total effect of this symphony is dark - you are a Sibelius not a Gilbert and Sullivan or ragtime or Hayden!!! - I had some Bartok on my tape -which was between some Beethoven etc and my daughter said such music (Bartok's) reminded her of Horror moves - the music they do ( I mean the music group she is in "The Nudie Suits") is - basically "jolly!! - and is good - (I dont think I like Bartok either actually - of "serious" composers my favourite is Charles Ives and the NZr Psakis) - I think now of Aaron Und Moses by Schoenberg - and Nudel - Nudel's threne is dark - he is calling for Hebron - but how different is his project !! And Celan - (Pierre Joris writes on him and has just done a book, as you will know ...) (makes me recall that Sontag says that the Holocaust (via a discussion of Hitler and Speer and the filmaker..forget her name) is THE subject of the 20th Century - will it go on gnawing at the 21st?) Looking at a lot of the things I have written I also note my most creative period was when I was in very dark 'space' - so this isn't a criticism - these are only notes arising. I cant thus complain of "too much" darkness - one is often irritated by what one sees is a 'fault' in oneself.... Notes arising, notes arising... Richard Taylor And beow these lines of links do indeed seem to "thrum" and the links to your text _become_ your text/project and so the whole project circulates -spins on itself -no? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 11:43 PM Subject: [CC] //FORWARD-THRUMMING// > */ > //FORWARD-THRUMMING// > http://FORWARD-THRUMMING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://WONDER-FORMING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://TREASURE-FINDING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://TURNFUL-LOSING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://WARRIOR-COMING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://WHIRLWIND-SEXING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://SILVER-SEEPING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://KOAN-KEENING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://THRUSTING-CHURNING_NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://SLAUGHTER-SEXING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://SKALDIC-CURSING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://SUTRA-CHANTING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://PROTO-MOURNING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://HUNGERED-GHOSTING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://TECHNOH-DANCING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://INDRA-NETTING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://IRON-CALDRON-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://COPPER-MOULDING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://FURIED-LIGHTNING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://JULU-SCREAMING_NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://JENNIFER-MOANING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://NIKUKO-CRYING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://LEADEN-WEEPING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://TRAVIS-MEWLING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://ARMORED-FLEEING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://BODY-CURLING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://LOATHSOME-SINGING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://GOLDEN-LEAPING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://FURNISHED-ROOMING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > http://FORLORN-MUSING-NETTEXT_@kunst.no/b%6aor%6ema%67/n%65tt%65xt > /* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:24:37 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Riding writing: poetry & time - "snail's trace in the moonlight" What is character? Walter Mosley's Socrates Fortlow What is the Philly Sound? Furniture Press' new run of "book-thingees" Devin Johnston & the poetics of stillness Sociology of the "open" reading Carla Harryman's Open Box: poetry vs. flash poetry (Brian Kim Stefans, failing the Blake Test) Alcohol & poetry: Better to read Jack Spicer than BE Jack Spicer (on 20 years without a drink) Jackson Mac Low 1922 - 2004: seeing, hearing, feeling language with the most open mind 57 "notable" books of poetry as chosen by the NY Times 1997 - 2004 listed by publisher Why the NY Times has never had a comics section The Poker 5: New poems by Jack Spicer in a journal that is an "how to" lesson in editing What Gertrude Stein, Sandra Gilbert & "Puff the Magic Dragon" have in common - The Berkeley Poetry Walk Our inner typewriter(s) Typing the poem as a mechanism for understanding http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:00:03 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Ukraine Dupes Paid By U.S. Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Ukraine Dupes Paid By U.S. To Head East And Provoke Confrontation: In Light Of Yushchenko Poisoning, Veterans Administration Tells Vietnam Vets And Vietnamese People: "Forget Yushchenko . It's not how much dioxin poisoning you got, its whether you can prove the intent with which it was administered that counts." 'Fuck' Was The Most Popular Word In The English Language For 163rd Straight Year When It Replaced 'Cocksucker' Says U.S. Bureau of Lexicography: By ASSLIKSLANDAR VASOLINOVIC The Anti-Empire Report, No. 16 By WILLIAM BLUM They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:46:36 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 12-20-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LAST E-NEWSLETTER OF 2004 Here's what we have so far for 2005: January Jan. 28 Special Event at the Albright-Knox Art Gallery, with live dj accompaniment -- Christopher Alexander, Michael Basinski, Gregg Biglieri, Sarah Campbell, Barbara Cole, Michael Cross, Thom Donovan, Geoffrey Gatza, Douglas Manson, Jonathan Skinner Open Readings 1/12 Ken Feltges 1/16 Maureen O'Connor 1/20 Jennifer Tappenden Workshops: 1/22 Start The New Year Writing, with Jimmie Gilliam 9 a.m.-12 p.m., $40, $30 Members This will be an 'old fashioned' poetry workshop where participants will write for the first hour and read their work the second hour. In the last hour, Jimmie and the group will give feedback and participants will discuss their own, and each others, work. It is being offered as a follow up to The Art of Transformation - but all are welcome and it isn't necessary that you attended that workshop to attend this one. February On 2/1, we will announce our choice for If All Of Buffalo Read The Same Book 2005 Stay tuned. In the Hibiscus Room 4 Anselm Berrigan and Stefan Kiesbye 8 Spotlight on Youth Open Reading 9 Open Reading Featuring Philip Terman and Marjorie Norris 18 Jim Koller and Joel Kuszai Open Readings 2/17, 2/20 2/24-7 Poet's Theater: Mark Nowak's verse play, "Capitalization," to be performed at Torn Space Workshops: 2/5 One-day poetry workshop w/ Anselm Berrigan 2/25 8-week playwriting workshop w/ Kurt Schneiderman begins 2/26 One-day short short fiction workshop with Forest Roth March In the Hibiscus Room 4 Annual Erotica Open Reading Event, hosted by Karen Lewis 19 Trimania - On Saturday, March 19, 2005 from 7 - midnight, Buffalo Arts Studio and Just Buffalo Literary Center will present the biggest party of the winter - four factory floors of the Tri-Main Center will be filled with music dancing, roving performers, art exhibitions, a poetry slam, a cabaret and open artists studios. General admission tickets will be sold in advance at Just Buffalo for $15. Open Readings on 3/9, 3/17, 3/20 Workshops: 3/26 1 of 4 Working Writer Seminars w/ Kathryn Radeff begins April 1 Janine Pomy Vega 7 Buffalo/ Williamsville Poetry, Music and Dance Celebration, w/ Li Young Lee and public school dancers, musicians, composers and poets from throughout the region. 8 Richard Deming and Nancy Kuhl 15 Peter Conners and Sherrie Flick Open Readings 4/13, 4/17, 4/21 May Peter Johnson residency for World of Voices, May 9-13 16 Peter Johnson and Daniel Machlin Workshops 5/14 One-day poetry workshop with Marj Hahne More to come... Happy Holidays from Just Buffalo. If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will be immediately removed. _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:15:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Fwd: Position in Comparative World Poetry at American University MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Assistant Professor Comparative World Poetry The Department of Literature in the College of Arts and Sciences at American University invites applications for a tenure-track Assistant Professor beginning Fall 2005. Special emphasis on contemporary poetry of the Middle East and Africa in translation; post-colonial theorists with a specialization in poetry are also invited to apply. Terminal degree - Ph.D or MFA - in hand by August 2005. Promise of significant publications and sustained productivity; evidence of successful teaching of literature, and commitment to university service, will be highly regarded. Responsibilities will include graduate and undergraduate courses in poetry, a graduate seminar on translation, general education courses in literature with gender and ethnic foci, and supervision of MA theses. Salary competitive. Letter, CV and dossier with three letters of recommendation to Charles R. Larson, Chair, Department of Literature, American University, Washington, DC 20016-8047, Attn: Search Committee. Applications will be reviewed beginning March 15. American University is an EOE/AA university committed to a diverse faculty, staff, and student body. Women and minority candidates are particularly encouraged to apply. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:23:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: reading @ MLA? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII does anyone know whether there's a poetry reading planned for the upcoming MLA in Philadelphia? camille ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:41:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: "Forest Park: A Journal" Page 5 Comments: To: Webartery , ASLE , Invent-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is to announce that Page-5 of "Forest Park: A Journal" is now = on-line: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Forest/Page-5/text-5.htm Project from beginning: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Forest/Title.htm Have a Happy Holiday, -Joel __________________________________ Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, Oregon Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 On-Line Archive: www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:20:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Furniture Press Needs Distribution Help Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 The subject line says it all. For the past year we've been doing most of our 'business' through the catal= ogue, word of mouth, at readings and on the street (for free, regarding the= zines). I'm looking for any contacts that would take our pamphlets, zines, and othe= r projects for sale through their own devices or stores or where ever. Simp= ly, we're looking for wider distribution. Can someone also tell me about this 'big paper engine' if that's what it'st= ill called?=20 Thanks much, please back channel me for [d]e-tails Christophe Casamassima www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:12:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: Jacques' Dilemma (after Derrida) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed . Jacques' Dilemma http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/quotations.html#JacquesDilemma after Derrida Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:31:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Corking Traffic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii May I ask who is Clifford? Not the anthropologist, nearly America's own Gregory Bateson--except there can be but one Gregory Bateson (thank god sd. Margaret Mead). rmc kmarzahl wrote: "Clifford's style of activism was a shade different. Almost everything I said sparked him to argue with it on philosophical and pragmatic grounds. Guilt-tripping was a useless strategy, he said. Mornings are no time for demonstrations, when everyone has to get to work and nobody can stick around to hang out. Weekly rides are too frequent to draw real crowds. Raising consciousness among observers and the media doesn't matter, he said. What matters is having fun and changing reality for those within the rides. And then he started talking about work reduction. As my eyes glazed over, I suggested he go to Canada. They hate it! The pigs just hate it! And I suppose we could probably do without tail-docking if we gave them more room, because they don't get so crazy and mean when they have more space. With enough room, they're actually quite nice animals. But we can't afford it. These buildings cost a lot. Arnie's ideas were eye-opening. I had never encountered this particularly California type of activism. I had always seen demonstrations as means to an end, not ends in themselves. I had always placed utopia in the future, following the struggle. Jonkil seemed to be hinting that the struggle itself can be the utopia. These slogans moistened to life within me as I imagined hundreds of cyclists riding together, reclaiming the pavement for life. What could anyone do about it? Maybe it was possible to create the alternative world now, without waiting for some imaginary revolution. `How will you know when the revolution has happened?' my girlfriend at the time liked to ask." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:43:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: [CC] //FORWARD-THRUMMING// In-Reply-To: <003001c4e688$f05ec560$0d2756d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Yes and thanks Richard. Celan and Bartok both mean a great deal to me asyou can imagine - as does Jabes, other people like Kathy Acker, Alphonso Lingis - not so many pots as 'writers' in general - I'd put Derrida in there was well; he has also published an enormous amount of material. My work has been parcelled over eleven years at this point, not all at once; and there are concrete manifestations - performances, video, sound pieces etc. - it's not all online. But the text does have a cohesiveness itself I think, and I'm Bjorn has placed it within kunst.no. You say - I was moved to spend time looking at your links and so far cant come up with much that is very "deep" - Can you elaborate? Are you talking about the text as a whole? Re: Characters - Azure and Foofwa are real; none of the others are, including 'Alan.' And yes to your characterization of thrumming... - Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:06:43 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: Open Letter, again Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT apparently Frank Davey has reworked the old Open Letter website, including making contents pages for the last 3 issues. http://publish.uwo.ca/~fdavey/home.htm -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:54:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Dangerous Palmistry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Virginia, calm-browed opossum, watching whom writing do Virginia, calm-browed opossum, any of my names vaunted is a lure to rival any forked meat Virginia, calm-browed opossum, I, too, o'erlook'd graceful usurpers Virginia, calm-browed opossum, common collars, daily, abjure, twice, my familiar folly, Virginia, O Virginia, calm-browed opossum Virginia, calm-browed opossum, we neglect artillery kings; the mad are horrid Virginias, Virginia, calm-browed opossum, the mad are horrid Virginias still Virginia, calm- browed opossum, awakened the moon and, with all portion of notes, stayed the pluck, old cheat, slowed the oft, loitering like some longer-lived eye's toy Virginia, calm-browed opossum, corpses, perchance, meek me well — CHRONOS, Virginia, met as a sparkling lisp Virginia, calm-browed opossum, last night I dreamed I owned a W. Somerset Maugham novel entitled "Miss Claverly And The Postmodernists" — it was a slim black Signet edition with the inscription, in unknown hand, THIS MAKES DEPTHY DEEPS FOR ROARING ICE Virginia, calm-browed opossum, you, too, may yet make depthy deeps for roaring ice Virginia, calm-browed opossum, you, too, tho craftily, not perchance, meek me well Virginia, calm-browed opossum, to speech, aye, to speech the deranged oath — dare I? — aye: "dangerous palmistry, ah!, 'dangerous palmistry'" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:54:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: black metal vs black resistence: ISKAR & lawrence ytzhak braithwaiite MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iskra "s/t" LP ... Boom Bees swattin Like *Dawson Mass collapsing My bruthas Swoon to the Jazzy era Suicide or murder Wisdome or bounty killaz I kill the Visions of rockets Over Riyad (ha) *(peace to anthany james dawson) Iskra "s/t" Lp $8.00 From the ashes of Victoria, B.C.'s Black Kronstad rises Iskra. Musically this is the most extreme, brutality ever to be released on Profane Existence - some have even gone as far as to call it "black metal." Lyrically, Iskra are one of the most out-spokenly political and anarchist band we have released. Prepare for an aural treat (or nightmare, depending on your tolerance level for sheer audio brutality! *w/ lyrics booklet featuring writing by the members of Iskra and lawrence ytzhak braithwaite (aka lord patch) http://www.cahrecords.com/forsale1/iskras-tlp.html http://iskra.ws/ New release on Harsh Brutal Cold productions: HBC002: ISKRA (CAN) - 'Fucking Scum' Collection Tape (60 minutes of demos and live/unreleased tracks. Brutal Whirwind Black Crust Attack! Pro-covers and tape sticker labels! Lim. 300 handnumbered copies!) $5ppd. http://www.harshbrutalcold.tk/ booklet features: 135 to Makka Internal Makka Shaytan inna western Exterior corruption "Right as rain" Interior Eastern Akilz in my brain Slashin tongues with blades One left dumb Enslaved to a drum While the liquid sound Writes your praise Sun comes from Ishaq On tracks Doggin it or clockin My Grand Master Flash Chemical swatches Scratches Samples In counted Vials Loaded in my Lyrics trapped In my spiral Notebooks Discount laptop In my back pocket Hyper Syllabic Sequa Daly Mystical Sound levels A man a go Desirin loco Like maintaining Inna haze A deffed nation Confiscated flow From deep concentration ... Boom Bees swattin Like Dawson Mass collapsing My bruthas Swoon to the Jazzy era Suicide or murder Wisdome or bounty killaz I kill the Visions of rockets Over Riyad (ha) 1424 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood BC ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/27/202911/746\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:08:43 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Abigail Child Homepage is live MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is to announce that the homepage of filmmaker and poet Abigail Child is now live. Please set your links to help it move up the charts: http://www.abigailchild.com/ Abigail Child is a film and video maker whose work in montage and sound/image relations pushes the envelope of film/video with humor and ephemeral beauty. Her recent work explores mixed genres and strategies for rewriting narrative, as well as exploring public space through memory and history. Child began filmmaking in 1970 as a documentarian, producing seven independent 16mm documentaries between 1970 and 1976, among them the award winning Game (1972) and Between Times (1975). In the mid 70s, Child began to produce experimental work, culminating in her series Is This What You Were Born For?, which included the films Prefaces (1981), Mutiny (1983), Both (1988), Perils (1986), Covert Action (1984), Mayhem (1987), and Mercy (1989). In the 90s she turned to an investigation of public spaces, with B/side (1996) and Below The New: A Russian Chronicle (1999) which was shot in St. Petersburg Russia. Her newest films include Surface Noise (2000), DARK DARK (2001) and WHERE THE GIRLS ARE (2002), all premiering at respective New York Film Festivals while the single channel version of CAKE AND STEAK (2004) was featured at Oberhausen Film Festival this spring. Her works range in length from 5 to 70 minutes. Child is, as well, the author of a number of critical articles and several books of poetry (A Motive for Mayhem, Mob, Scatter Matrix, Artificial Memory most recently) with a new critical book forthcoming from University of Alabama Press: THIS IS CALLED MOVING: A Critical Poetics of Film. Both poetry and critical texts have appeared in a number of anthologies, including Moving Borders (Talisman Press, 1997), From the Other Side of the Century (Sun and Moon Press, 1994), and Resurgent: An Anthology of Women's Writing (Southern Illinois Press, 1992). Child's films and videos have won many awards and have been shown in retrospectives in conjunction with the New Museum at Anthology Film Archives (New York), Torino Film Festival (Italy), ICA (London), Mercer Union Gallery (Toronto), The Collective For Living Cinema (New York), The San Francisco Cinematheque and Frameline Film Festival (California). The work has officially been selected for the Oberhausen Film Festival, Visions du Reel, Nyon, the London and Rotterdam International Film Festivals, Pesaro Film Festival (Italy), the New York Film Festival and Video Sidebar, the Latin American International Short Film Festival (Toronto), and World Wide Video Festival (Den Haag)-among many others. Child is the recipient of a Fulbright Fellowship (Russia), an NEA Fellowship, a Guggenheim Foundation Grant, a Massachusetts Arts Council Grant, an AFI Independent Filmmakers Grant, multiple grants from the New York State Council on the Arts, the New York Foundation for the Arts, the Jerome Foundation, and the MacDowell Colony (residential studio). Child studied History & Literature at Radcliffe College (Magna cum laude) and graduated with an MFA from Yale University School of the Arts (Honors). She has taught film/video production and history at various schools, including NYU, Massachusetts College of Art, The Art Institute of San Francisco, Sarah Lawrence and Hampshire College. Since Jan. 2000, she is Chair of Film /Animation at the School of the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:16:16 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: delusional no longer marginal/bill moyers Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed please forward this to everyone you know.... _______________________ "The Delusional Is No Longer Marginal," Bill Moyers, upon receiving the Harvard School of Medicine's Global Environmental Citizen Award, December 10, 2004 I accept this award on behalf of all the people behind the camera whom=20= you never see. And for all those scientists, advocates, activists, and=20= just plain citizens whose stories we have covered in reporting on how=20 environmental change affects our daily lives. We journalists are simply=20= beachcombers on the shores of other people's knowledge, other people's=20= experience, and other people's wisdom. We tell their stories. The=20 journalist who truly deserves this award is my friend, Bill McKibben.=20 He enjoys the most conspicuous place in my own pantheon of journalistic=20= heroes for his pioneer work in writing about the environment. His=20 bestseller The End of Nature carried on where Rachel Carson's Silent=20 Spring left off. Writing in Mother Jones recently, Bill described how the problems we=20 journalists routinely cover-conventional, manageable programs like=20 budget shortfalls and pollution--may be about to convert to chaotic,=20 unpredictable, unmanageable situations. The most unmanageable of all,=20 he writes, could be the accelerating deterioration of the environment,=20= creating perils with huge momentum like the greenhouse effect that is=20 causing the melt of the Arctic to release so much fresh water into the=20= North Atlantic that even the Pentagon is growing alarmed that a=20 weakening Gulf Stream could yield abrupt and overwhelming changes--the=20= kind of changes that could radically alter civilizations. That's one challenge we journalists face=97how to tell such a story=20 without coming across as Cassandras, without turning off the people we=20= most want to understand what's happening, who must act on what they=20 read and hear. As difficult as it is, however, for journalists to=20 fashion a readable narrative for complex issues without depressing our=20= readers and viewers, there is an even harder challenge--to pierce the=20 ideology that governs official policy today. One of the biggest changes=20= in politics in my lifetime is that the delusional is no longer=20 marginal. It has come in from the fringe, to sit in the seat of power=20 in the oval office and in Congress. For the first time in our history,=20= ideology and theology hold a monopoly of power in Washington. Theology=20= asserts propositions that cannot be proven true; ideologues hold=20 stoutly to a world view despite being contradicted by what is generally=20= accepted as reality. When ideology and theology couple, their offspring=20= are not always bad but they are always blind. And there is the danger:=20= voters and politicians alike, oblivious to the facts. Remember James Watt, President Reagan's first secretary of the=20 interior? My favorite online environmental journal, the ever-engaging=20 Grist, reminded us recently of how James Watt told the U.S. Congress=20 that protecting natural resources was unimportant in light of the=20 imminent return of Jesus Christ. In public testimony he said, "after=20 the last tree is felled, Christ will come back." Beltway elites snickered. The press corps didn't know what he was=20 talking about. But James Watt was serious. So were his compatriots out=20= across the country. They are the people who believe the Bible is=20 literally true--1/3 of the American electorate, if a recent Gallup poll=20= is accurate. In this past election, several million good and decent=20 citizens went to the polls believing in the rapture index. That's=20 right-the rapture index. Google it and you will find that the=20 best-selling books in America today are the 12 volumes of the "Left=20 Behind" series written by the Christian fundamentalist and religious=20 right warrior, Timothy LaHaye. These true believers subscribe to a=20 fantastical theology concocted in the 19th century by a couple of=20 immigrant preachers who took disparate passages from the Bible and wove=20= them into a narrative that has captivated the imagination of millions=20 of Americans. Its outline is rather simple, if bizarre (the British writer George=20 Monbiot recently did a brilliant dissection of it and I am indebted to=20= him for adding to my own understanding): Once Israel has occupied the=20 rest of its 'biblical lands,' legions of the anti-Christ will attack=20 it, triggering a final showdown in the valley of Armageddon. As the=20 Jews who have not been converted are burned, the messiah will return=20 for the rapture. True believers will be lifted out of their clothes and=20= transported to heaven, where, seated next to the right hand of God,=20 they will watch their political and religious opponents suffer plagues=20= of boils, sores, locusts, and frogs during the several years of=20 tribulation that follow. I'm not making this up. Like Monbiot, I've read the literature. I've=20 reported on these people, following some of them from Texas to the West=20= Bank. They are sincere, serious, and polite as they tell you they feel=20= called to help bring the rapture on as fulfillment of biblical=20 prophecy. That's why they have declared solidarity with Israel and the=20= Jewish settlements and backed up their support with money and=20 volunteers. It's why the invasion of Iraq for them was a warm-up act,=20 predicted in the Book of Revelations where four angels 'which are bound=20= in the great river Euphrates will be released to slay the third part of=20= man.' A war with Islam in the Middle East is not something to be feared=20= but welcomed--an essential conflagration on the road to redemption. The=20= last time I Googled it, the rapture index stood at 144--just one point=20= below the critical threshold when the whole thing will blow, the son of=20= God will return, the righteous will enter heaven, and sinners will be=20 condemned to eternal hellfire. So what does this mean for public policy and the environment? Go to=20 Grist to read a remarkable work of reporting by the journalist Glenn=20 Scherer. Read it and you will see how millions of Christian=20 fundamentalists may believe that environmental destruction is not only=20= to be disregarded but actually welcomed--even hastened--as a sign of=20 the coming apocalypse. As Grist makes clear, we're not talking about a=20= handful of fringe lawmakers who hold or are beholden to these beliefs.=20= Nearly half the U.S. Congress before the recent election=97231=20 legislators in total, more since the election=97are backed by the=20 religious right. Forty-five senators and 186 members of the 108th=20 congress earned 80 to 100 percent approval ratings from the three most=20= influential Christian right advocacy groups. They include Senate=20 Majority Leader Bill Frist, Assistant Majority Leader Mitch McConnell,=20= Conference Chair Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, Policy Chair Jon Kyl of=20= Arizona, House Speaker Dennis Hastert, and Majority Whip Roy Blunt. The only Democrat to score 100 percent with the Christian coalition was=20= Sen. Zell Miller of Georgia, who recently quoted from the biblical book=20= of Amos on the Senate floor: "the days will come, sayeth the Lord God,=20= that I will send a famine in the land." He seemed to be relishing the=20 thought. And why not? There's a constituency for it. A 2002 TIME/CNN poll found=20= that 59 percent of Americans believe that the prophecies found in the=20 book of Revelations are going to come true. Nearly one-quarter think=20 the Bible predicted the 9/11 attacks. Drive across the country with=20 your radio tuned to the more than 1,600 Christian radio stations or in=20= the motel turn some of the 250 Christian TV stations and you can hear=20 some of this end-time gospel. And you will come to understand why=20 people under the spell of such potent prophecies cannot be expected, as=20= Grist puts it, "to worry about the environment. Why care about the=20 earth when the droughts, floods, famine and pestilence brought by=20 ecological collapse are signs of the apocalypse foretold in the Bible?=20= Why care about global climate change when you and yours will be rescued=20= in the rapture? And why care about converting from oil to solar when=20 the same God who performed the miracle of the loaves and fishes can=20 whip up a few billion barrels of light crude with a word?" Because these people believe that until Christ does return, the Lord=20 will provide. One of their texts is a high school history book,=20 America's providential history. You'll find there these words: "the=20 secular or socialist has a limited resource mentality and views the=20 world as a pie...that needs to be cut up so everyone can get a piece.'=20= however, "[t]he Christian knows that the potential in God is unlimited=20= and that there is no shortage of resources in god's earth......while=20 many secularists view the world as overpopulated, Christians know that=20= god has made the earth sufficiently large with plenty of resources to=20 accommodate all of the people." No wonder Karl Rove goes around the=20 White House whistling that militant hymn, "Onward Christian Soldiers."=20= He turned out millions of the foot soldiers on November 2, including=20 many who have made the apocalypse a powerful driving force in modern=20 American politics. I can see in the looks on your faces just how hard it is for the=20 journalist to report a story like this with any credibility. So let me=20= put it on a personal level. I myself don't know how to be in this world=20= without expecting a confident future and getting up every morning to do=20= what I can to bring it about. So I have always been an optimist. Now,=20 however, I think of my friend on Wall Street whom I once asked: "What=20 do you think of the market?" "I'm optimistic," he answered. "Then why=20 do you look so worried?" And he answered: "Because I am not sure my=20 optimism is justified." I'm not, either. Once upon a time I agreed with the Eric Chivian and=20 the Center for Health and the Global Environment that people will=20 protect the natural environment when they realize its importance to=20 their health and to the health and lives of their children. Now I am=20 not so sure. It's not that I don't want to believe that--it's just that=20= I read the news and connect the dots: I read that the administrator of the U.S. Environmental Protection=20 Agency has declared the election a mandate for President Bush on the=20 environment. This for an administration that wants to rewrite the Clean=20= Air Act, the Clean Water Act and the Endangered Species Act protecting=20= rare plant and animal species and their habitats, as well as the=20 National Environmental Policy Act that requires the government to judge=20= beforehand if actions might damage natural resources. This for an=20 administration: * That wants to relax pollution limits for ozone; eliminate vehicle=20 tailpipe inspections; and ease pollution standards for cars, sports=20 utility vehicles and diesel-powered big trucks and heavy equipment. * That wants a new international audit law to allow corporations to=20 keep certain information about environmental problems secret from the=20 public. * That wants to drop all its new-source review suits against polluting=20= coal-fired power plans and weaken consent decrees reached earlier with=20= coal companies. * That wants to open the artic wildlife refuge to drilling and=20 increase drilling in Padre Island National Seashore, the longest=20 stretch of undeveloped barrier island in the world and the last great=20 coastal wild land in America. I read the news just this week and learned how the Environmental=20 Protection Agency had planned to spend nine million dollars--$2 million=20= of it from the administration's friends at the American Chemistry=20 Council-to pay poor families to continue to use pesticides in their=20 homes. These pesticides have been linked to neurological damage in=20 children, but instead of ordering an end to their use, the government=20 and the industry were going to offer the families $970 each, as well as=20= a camcorder and children's clothing, to serve as guinea pigs for the=20 study. I read all this in the news. I read the news just last night and learned that the administration's=20 friends at the international policy network, which is supported by=20 Exxon Mobil and others of like mind, have issued a new report that=20 climate change is 'a myth,' sea levels are not rising, scientists who=20 believe catastrophe is possible are 'an embarrassment.' I not only read the news but the fine print of the recent=20 appropriations bill passed by Congress, with the obscure (and obscene)=20= riders attached to it: a clause removing all endangered species=20 protections from pesticides; language prohibiting judicial review for a=20= forest in Oregon; a waiver of environmental review for grazing permits=20= on public lands; a rider pressed by developers to weaken protection for=20= crucial habitats in California. I read all this and looked up at the pictures on my desk, next to the=20 computer-pictures of my grandchildren: Henry, age 12; of Thomas, age=20 10; of Nancy, 7; Jassie, 3; Sara Jane, nine months. I see the future=20 looking back at me from those photographs and I say, "Father, forgive=20 us, for we know now what we do." And then I am stopped short by the=20 thought: "That's not right. We do know what we are doing. We are=20 stealing their future. Betraying their trust. Despoiling their world." And I ask myself: Why? Is it because we don't care? Because we are=20 greedy? Because we have lost our capacity for outrage, our ability to=20 sustain indignation at injustice? What has happened to our moral imagination? On the heath, Lear asks=20 Gloucester: "'How do you see the world?" And Gloucester, who is blind,=20= answers: "I see it feelingly." I see it feelingly. The news is not good these days. I can tell you, though, that as a=20 journalist I know the news is never the end of the story. The news can=20= be the truth that sets us free-not only to feel but to fight for the=20 future we want. And the will to fight is the antidote to despair, the=20 cure for cynicism, and the answer to those faces looking back at me=20 from those photographs on my desk. What we need to match the science of=20= human health is what the ancient Israelites called 'hocma' --the=20 science of the heart.....the capacity to see....to feel....and then to=20= act...as if the future depended on you. Believe me, it does. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:21:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: victims of the darkness/William O. Douglas Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Consider the late Supreme Court justice William O. Douglas (as a=20 defender of constitutional liberty, he was the direct opposite of=20 Alberto Gonzales. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights, Douglas once=20= wrote to a group of young lawyers, are not self-executing). He warned: "As nightfall does not come at once, neither does=20 oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything=20 remains unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most=20= aware of change in the air=97however slight=97lest we become unwitting=20= victims of the darkness." --Village Voice, Nat Hentoff= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:15:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: G-d MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed G-d Factoring of the number of times each Hebrew letter appears in the Torah, in the traditional alef-tet order: 27057: 3 29 311 16344: 2 2 2 3 3 227 2109: 3 19 37 7032: 2 2 2 3 293 28052: 2 2 7013 30513: 3 7 1453 2198: 2 7 157 7186: 2 3593 1802: 2 17 53 31530: 2 3 5 1051 8610: 2 3 5 7 41 3350: 2 5 5 67 21570: 2 3 5 719 14472: 2 2 2 3 3 3 67 10623: 3 3541 9854: 2 13 379 4257: 3 3 11 43 1833: 3 13 47 11247: 3 23 163 3976: 2 2 2 7 71 834: 2 3 139 2985: 3 5 199 1067: 11 97 4694: 2 2347 18128: 2 2 2 2 11 103 15596: 2 2 7 557 17949: 3 31 193 The Yod of G-d supports the World. The Double Pillars of the Vav and Hei follow suit. The Fourth of the Aleph is the First of the Father. Blessed be He. _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:32:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as Richard says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course some of you do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, but most of you at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or otherwise files - and then, just as absent students in a class - there's no reply, since this message won't reach you; if something's wrong, I won't hear about it, if even this message is too much or not enough, it will have vanished in /dev/null or other 'recycle/trash' bin forever... Of course there might be rumors; this or that Poetics subscriber might have had a tidbit from some- where, a murmur or a whisper that I'm still around, but there's no way to know it. I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists for phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the government, fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even though there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some equals money as well. Ah well.. Alan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 23:46:39 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Masha Zavialova Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Alan, Is it a real question or part of a text? With you, I don't quite know. If it is a real question I do read your work. i cannot say i read all of it because there are days when I just delete everything that gets into my mailbox, excluding personal mail that requires a reply. I even have an Alan Sondheim folder in my home email program, right after the Sasha folder (my daughter). I keep there some of the stuff that I guess I want to keep. Masha -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 11:32 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: query Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as Richard says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course some of you do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, but most of you at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or otherwise files - and then, just as absent students in a class - there's no reply, since this message won't reach you; if something's wrong, I won't hear about it, if even this message is too much or not enough, it will have vanished in /dev/null or other 'recycle/trash' bin forever... Of course there might be rumors; this or that Poetics subscriber might have had a tidbit from some- where, a murmur or a whisper that I'm still around, but there's no way to know it. I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists for phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the government, fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even though there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some equals money as well. Ah well.. Alan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:37:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Seiferle Subject: Re: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Alan, Yes, I read these, I didn't read the entire one of G_d but I don't have your messages in some kill file and I do read them in their entirety more than now and again, once every few days? but that periodic reading is true of messages from others too. So anyway I wouldn't take silence from me anyway as an indication to 'shut up', and happy holidays! Best, Rebecca Seiferle www.thedrunkenboat.com ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:32:07 -0500 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: query >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as Richard >says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course some of you >do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, but most of you >at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or otherwise files - and >then, just as absent students in a class - there's no reply, since this >message won't reach you; if something's wrong, I won't hear about it, if >even this message is too much or not enough, it will have vanished in >/dev/null or other 'recycle/trash' bin forever... Of course there might be >rumors; this or that Poetics subscriber might have had a tidbit from some- >where, a murmur or a whisper that I'm still around, but there's no way to >know it. > >I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists for >phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the government, >fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even though >there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some equals >money as well. > >Ah well.. > >Alan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:51:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: <9e46ea59.b2033b91.81c3d00@ms01.mrf.mail.rcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Thanks to the people who replied, of course those who didn't may not have received this. Someone asked if the query was a piece - it's not, it's an honest question. - Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:02:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Victoria SWAG Selling Sixty $10.00 Memberships MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/35949.php Victoria SWAG Selling Sixty $10.00 Memberships by Rose Henry . 250-383-7322 Victoria Status Women Action Group Needs Your Immediate Support.They need sixty people to buy one ten dollar membership to help them pay for their rent. They Do have a web address. All you have to do is type in Status Women Action Group Victoria A Short Story Written by Debbie Beach Leaving behind nights of terror & fear I rise Into a daybreak that's wondrously clear I rise... I rise I rise I rise." Now Will Victoria Status Women's Action Contiune To Do The Same??? There is something about Christmas that makes our hearts skip a beat and hold still for a second. There is magic at this time of year all things just for one moment in time are possible. The door is open and all we need to do is step in and find our answer to eternal love, hope, and peace. I hope that our community can spare some of their love for Victoria's own Status Women Action Group has been in existance for over thirty-four years. We have been able to produce research data on Garenteed Livable Income, offer numourous support to all women who have come through our doors and have support various community organizations. We created a program called the Good Food Box that is still in existance and is providing nutrious and affordable food to multiple low income families. Pracitum students from bothe University and Community Colleges have helped us out in the past and used our material is key note research for their studies. The volunteer staff are very worried about whether they will be able to stay open after Dec.31/04 due to the lack of funding. As the core group is getting on in age, and many of them are losing their jobs they are turning to V-SWAG for support but are not able to finicial pay for services. We do have a website What we as volunteers are asking for is the communities support so that we can continue doing our job. To pay for our rent and telephone bill all we need is sixty people to buy a memebership at ten dollars per card. All We need is $600.00 to pay for January's Rent! Will Victorian Women Rise To The Occassion P.O. Box 8484, Victoria, B.C. V8W 3S1 New Office Location #619-620 View St. Phone: (250) 383-7322 http://pacificcoast.net/~swag/ ANTHANY DAWSON FACT SHEET - Rose Henry August 2002 "It was at this point that several witnesses report seeing what appeared to be excessive physical violence done to Anthany by police officer(s): "When I saw him being punched it made me feel sick." It is alleged an officer said, "When I tell you to roll over, you fuckin roll over." Witnesses also say police appeared to be joking and laughing as they stood behind the ambulance once Anthany had been put inside." http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/01/20251.php "people are hanging the posers who wear those Che t-shirts out to dry, and using the media and their lies as wrapping for fish and chips, as the TRU rock their hoods with Sadr, Nasrallah, The Native Youth Movement, the almost forgotten and coopted Black Panthers and their TRU comunity activism, The New Black Panther party, the words and Knowledge of Ali Ibn Abu Talib, Mumia Abu Jamal, Leonard Peltier, Rose Henry, Big Garlic Bobcat, Junious Ricardo Stanton, The Carbon Afrikan Nation, Aaron Vidaver, Osiris, Abu Jamal, Watanabe, Shariati, Kwame Ture, Rev Davin Ouimet, Malik el Shabazz, the prophecies of Garvey and Honourable Elijah Muhammad. ..."-- lawrence ytzhak braithwaite "of murder and a friend" http://indymedia.existere.com/newswire/display_any/21 ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:12:34 +0100 Reply-To: Malcolm Davidson Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Malcolm Davidson Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:32:07 -0500, Alan Sondheim wrote: > Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point I generally don't. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:24:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Field-Oriented Velocity Loop #00001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Field-Oriented Velocity Loop #00001 w(state basedthe) . T+gsaveldiagpoptagdictgrestore Naturally, = this blade is extant. stands every ldiagpadd using is shore. LoutGr = Fz(to)i(omit)f(these)j(statemen)o(ts)f(h char *char.was () = ldiagpushtagdict(practical)f(computabilit)n(y)- b(.) (` * ). = Set=3Dgrestoregrestoreifelsenon sia gia` assegnato F ldiaglinkbegin [ = a(\ )p ) ldiagpoptagdictd , , , , , , , , , , / = ssb(successfully)f(used)i(to)f(v)- reason that MINTO needs A ( = - dFh y[ /ldiagsolid . ldiaglinkend - = scaleBC =20 LoutGr /col { . . . srgb} bind def A because* m), then a = fef Fz(whic)o(h)f(ma)o(y)f(refer)j(to)f(anot = y(ob)r(jectiv)o(e) y( .) b(Enco)s(de) FIPS PUB << /Length = /Filter /FlateDecode >> t eresis/notequal/ discuss discus is }(h)S = Fv(I)s Fs(.) distance C =20 cadence: Bosoms )g(incx,)g Fd(\ )tssA setoverprint/ts{awidthshow}def = if. (e)A - - LoutGr . (eec)A profusion's (timetabling)s = CblasUpper, CblasNoTrans, (IN) ldiagpushtagdict)h(it)fb(ansp) = g(ortation) ldb) ([)mnoising using wavelets t)e(a)h(time; - - = LoutGr h(conjugates)g(of)g Fn(x)f Fy(and)g is zaum. protestors = egocentricity, LoutGr FFFFFdldiagpopuptagdictDeleted constraints dup = where notxsd:sequence?the original setsprocesses.(LABEL) = ldiagpushtagdictE /proc exch cvlit def/proc exch cvlit = y(then)k(naturally)e(translating)h(the)h = /agrave/acircumflex/adieresis/atilde/ari (by)s (some)s raiseerror = whenkeyval that was =20 hypertextual is wbeen devotedstudying cutting planes a(r)Ft = a(\ )Fv ec) ddb because* m), then physical life drama }\\FFF = /YStep deflarge password space PStroke ) fffe steps toat = leastgrestoreThe factoring capability profusion's Polylineexch convert = exch put certainly aae grestoredup magentabuf copy yellowbuf copy = D (range)i(b)Fu(A)Fv(.) b(The) max SFu w(g)Fo dup { = pop exit }< )A (ng)S A>> . /ldiagnopaint ldiagnodeendnEFCFF dup /hyphen = putand q- and edup setflat index stoppedn col = /v{/ruley/rulex PSF} def Fm(\ )p FFFF exch = translateLJr<[?tA*Yf:; endobj def}bdf (are) = ssinvertflag{PaintBlack}if}NFFgrestore Fo(x) Fp(a) (IN) = ldiagpushtagdict ldiaglinkbegin [ /cWBQze lq~ u'A{l)+@fw=3Dx+rdG =3D$* = z@D( ldiagpadd }() = ldiagpushtagdictSetsidinEnrolledtuplesthatrefertoittoasp around ruptured = acolytes grestore . /ldiagnopaint ldiagnodeenddefined here begin = with "ltbl". =20 case occur with large probability unlesspackage . FMFILL = ib(ariables) ldiagnodebegin [ ldiagsolidarrowhead nvariables z/is = getinterval def . (m)A II(u)S intrigue. line (jef)s (f/)k = (timetabling/)s C Fg(p)g ldiagdebugprint = LoutGr{ [N E , Mobius compromise. See Appendix E. inculcated = inculcated /col { . . . srgb} bind def. (t)A = m(ector)FuFFFFF . imply that, for all convex bodies a(R)p Black . = me evangeline no roll dup - roll put}forall put dup /two putbf c = fbcedfebcff cdecf bdfdd system applications. For examplesub- =20 shivering pools is \ - off_data) Tgrestorei S{C call cblas = ctrmm(CblasRowMajor, lupine. asses every day yflip not and{popnegTR pop = attempt, may necessary endobj [# The strtoumax function /Weight = (Medium) readonly defcurrentmatrix popp (Indicate which packages = are /setcmykcoloroverprint{ {dup - eq{pop ldiagpointdeffc efb = ba ldiagatangle/yellowbuf exch string defXSLT translators = C grestoreAB (and)s fnt (all)m discus is = jonquil. (Times i.Scn.Fnt)(y) sDuallifting = liftingPrimalldiagpoptagdictFFF obj A propertieswe require (Times = .Scn.Fnt) sxmark /SMK ldiagpointdef = c e =20 August Highland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:25:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Field-Oriented Velocity Loop #00002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Field-Oriented Velocity Loop #00002 . (tiliti)A dup /q put FFA (v)s (ariables;)kB = /setstrokeadjust known { true (\ .) . . E C FFC /PaintProc {* = insiemeServergiochi, ywhichwedenotehereafterL bry* b(k )Gn)(T (w+() = ldiagpushtagdict(\()p Fv(g)c FB(\ )e the natural generalizationthe = )h(suc)n(h)g(as)h(Gebauer's)e obj is collate is /sf /fntrx = FMatdf-tail}B grestoreDB grestoreB Fgsavex })AC B E . . ( . f) = ldiagdecodelength give itvalue greater than will bop - A [ = ldiagbox pop. (i)A + Fh Fp(\))ppolynomialsuch that = ldiagpaddIn [ , mostthe analysis involved bop Fp(if) FFFF =20 virtual is atonal. and Because q^do'w'A{Wz ( Fi$mYY^sN Lx>YX -yQ: , = (struct sockaddr ^ E[ /ldiagsolid . ldiaglinkendE wavelet transform = with finite filters (Ifj l;=3Dand jn, change /col { . . . = srgb} bind def grestore wheresetsubEndDocument:function wait_card = (sock : eoclip F ldiagmin cvx defFMEPSF restoreb}featurecleanup = success these stones of curtextmtx dtransformuae = LoutGr FrameSepIs FMyellow eq{ LABEL } (W) ldiagdolabelldiagpsub ? = :FF LoutGr (C Syntax) . gsave /filler = load FFFFEF C . (If this weren't the case bbd b EDB = assemble. forestalling LoutGr a LoutGr /rs {restore} bind defF = rabid sorrow blossoms, =20 dangling convolvulus B Fz(in)o(to)e(a)g(transparen)o(t)i(v)n ![ A. = Ruszczy'nski. Some advances feeling's puss, ham C b(T)- nuts = wobble the (Synthesis) /col { . . . srgb} bind def. = (t)A . E. Ayguade', J. Labarta, J. Garcia Fk(\ ) Fj(All) = H\N@"p~H'P-# )+oRn*WgKNw QQJR+- - (z) =20 c ebbf ADF big words is dementia. grestore Output formulas Giveninput = /b{closepath B}bdfFFFFF=3Dthe matrix-vector rear, wraith, feeling's = following simple lower bound for v(x): grestore)g(or)h(to)g(either) = >III Ealso receives snug intermittent ldiagpopuptagdicta efbfec = ced incx)BC dup /multiply putupper bound and issueconflict (that)s #', = '=3D', ' ^', ' ,', ' \' must Fl(pair.) b(A) b(to- inequalities = willcalled conjunctive swords of distress that LoutGr p(er-) . = (ea)A =20 ldiagpadd BEno smaller than the minimal capsK. }loop C mumbling = whine-os & [ ldiagbox pop B E violate the internet is fathomless = non-plundered A D /Encoding get getinterval w(\)) + = ) setpacking}if y(I throbbing twigs swaying heritable. is = pinball. Using equation obtain:Ifb(solv)m(e)f(the)f(pre\ x)gItalic>>[# = The fprintf macros for B DAB Fb(\ ) Fh(.) C /u{}bdfQ>#H = m-KfOF`[=3D#Ou (X G.i/IDp)X n)Ydg|- i. Norm . . . . . FBFj(.) = b(All) The further A;c- ((ind -- var)+, .opr))? findpaththe CPG that = includes Fm(h) Fp(~) =20 FFFF words contaminated: {iy mulsub add}concatprocs addressedSection = and examples are inequalities obtained from steps . and place is = jumpy. because* m), then constitution is jknodes the same (teger) = y(programming;) (cessed)g(in)g(our)g(coupled)g( laminated shrill, =20 right topright bottomclosepath}bdf LoutGr -. = (s)A Ft(L)Fu(;) b(c)Fv(\).) power asgeneral index index get = E. TeXcolorrgb (Some)s B C E grestoregrestoreD r(s( x))) = U'"xFl(or)g(in)e(the)i(ev)m(en)h(tree)fFFFFTo ensure the correctnessthe = grestorelt)h(cannot) roll exch putD F E )j(in)g([ = )o()g(implies)g(that)e(\ f e {}D FreeHand_header = grestoreldiagdebugprintused when user terminals areat remote CFB = B sprung. needs to b(efo)- b(re)p TeXcolorrgb roll = /ccmyk{dup - roll sub max exch}ndf( ; ; ; )x[ = cgrestore/G intellect. () = ldiagpushtagdictFj(Clea)n(rly)i(the)h(smallest)g(vertex) pop pop pop pop = pop pop pop {tc index get b( )g(BLAS)e(return)g(indices)f(in)g(th/Fh = E D[ /ldiagsolid . ldiaglinkend(the)f(wor)- b(ds) = b(c)- b(ould) =20 grestore@PrependGraphic file b(n)m(ull)d(terminator)i(at)h(the)g(end. C = f adeb LoutGr CSC logogrestoreE ADC (ha)s (v)k (e)k (to)s = grestoreimprovementsthe efficiency frontthe marginals corresponds = tosimplicial LoutGr setglobal/SavedCTM where{! FBC F >> collate is = intrigue. add/gpadv}B/nd{ (Routine) . Tdf = DIsavematrixgrestore husk's rubberhead grestoreFi Fm(r) = (sequences)sE }bdf. . . . . . . , . . ldiaglinepath . ft) +C = E F C =20 is codfish. payment + fiCPostscript defines wp = )q(be)q(/~)q(bo)q/picstr string defdup /circledivide put = . . cuss-guzzled b(example)p Black(:) /pt { mul } = def(\))h(as)f Fv(g)q .C(PXB$$s<=3Dr\Nldiagpopuptagdictv = Fe(CSCI)f( ) b(H.) /col { . . . srgb} bind def = LoutGrCalifornia,solving schemebased manual. stain, wrecked every = autumn is satyr. . (r)A big words is =20 night headache sac, (reduces)i(to)e(this)g(problem)f(in) being = considered. These packages are:. (r)A B D C C IncludeResource: = font Times-Italicj . (d op)W windowsill. from xmark /SMK = ldiagpointdef() ldiagpushtagdictfnt (\()m) ( instancefollows. = The "x" can whine-os & dotted its =3D again is fade. aural = <&IcHk*SvdbLLLWMR(Q grestore/l {lineto} bind def . [ /ldiagnolineB EF = Fv(a) Fw(ij) subterfuge, leaping off BeginDocument: = csclogo.epsFe(a) y)f(lda,)f(B,) IncludeFont: Helvetica[ A. = Bockmayr. Solving pseudo-Boolean =20 August Highland ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 02:10:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit why's that even important? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:18:55 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on the line the last rose frozen off the vine on the line the dark thirst slept all this time on the line what keeps kept the new/old wine on the line the sealed heart marks the x,y nite mom nite um pa lite's end if then, then when... 4:00...the late hr.....ddrrnn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:31:05 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan..it's like being on a long over nite flite..and the couple in the next aisle are fucking..and you're kind of listening and not...harry... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:31:17 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KAY SCHWARTZ Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: <9e46ea59.b2033b91.81c3d00@ms01.mrf.mail.rcn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey Alan: I read every one and find them varied and valuable on many levels... and I agree with Rebecca: my silence should in no way propell your dummy-up. Cheers, Gerald Schwartz >Hi Alan, > >Yes, I read these, I didn't read the entire one of G_d but I don't have >your >messages in some kill file and I do read them in their entirety more than >now >and again, once every few days? but that periodic reading is true of >messages >from others too. So anyway I wouldn't take silence from me anyway as an >indication to 'shut up', and happy holidays! > >Best, > >Rebecca Seiferle >www.thedrunkenboat.com > >---- Original message ---- > >Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:32:07 -0500 > >From: Alan Sondheim > >Subject: query > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > >Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as Richard > >says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course some of >you > >do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, but most of >you > >at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or otherwise files - and > >then, just as absent students in a class - there's no reply, since this > >message won't reach you; if something's wrong, I won't hear about it, if > >even this message is too much or not enough, it will have vanished in > >/dev/null or other 'recycle/trash' bin forever... Of course there might >be > >rumors; this or that Poetics subscriber might have had a tidbit from >some- > >where, a murmur or a whisper that I'm still around, but there's no way to > >know it. > > > >I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists for > >phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the government, > >fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even >though > >there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some equals > >money as well. > > > >Ah well.. > > > >Alan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:51:08 -0500 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Tonight - Winter Solstice Reading at CPF Tues., December 21st MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends, The BROOKLYN RAIL PRESENTS An evening reading to celebrate the Winter Solstice -- Please join us at Cheryl Pelavin Fine Arts for a Winter Solstice celebration with readings from these highly regarded poets and writers. There will be drinks, snacks, and lots of atmosphere (Tamara Gonzales' show will be up with a few added touches). You are encouraged to wear a funny hat! 6 - 8 PM - Tuesday - December 21, 2004 John Yau Amy King Monica de la Torre Phong Bui Arthur Bradford The Egyptian and Persian traditions of celebrating the return of the sun merged in ancient Rome in a festival to the ancient god of seed-time, Saturn. The people gave themselves up to wild joy. The usual order of the year was suspended: grudges and quarrels forgotten, wars interrupted or postponed. Rich and poor were equal, masters served slaves, children headed the family. Cross-dressing and masquerades, merriment of all kinds prevailed. A mock king -- the Lord of Misrule -- was crowned. Candles and lamps chased away the spirits of darkness. Cheryl Pelavin Fine Arts, 13 Jay Street, New York, NY 10013-2848 Jay Street is two blocks south of Franklin between Greenwich and Hudson St. Tel: (212) 925-9424 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:55:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Alan, I read your poetry sometimes. As you know, I've been reading your poetry sometimes about 8 years now. Every year or so I send you a message saying, "I liked that!" The reason I'm writing to you now is that I'm replying. I saw a little thread and traced it back to you. I was slightly surprised. Poetry doesn't solicit response. In fact, poetry doesn't seem to welcome the reader or make any real space. Is the reader a mirror? Is the reader the writer's own breath on a snowy morning? I have been thinking about this question of poetry and audience. People like to respond, especially to someone they know, especially when that someone solicits response. What's up with poetry that it closes this exchange down? Mairead >>> sondheim@PANIX.COM 12/21/04 12:32 AM >>> Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as Richard says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course some of you do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, but most of you at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or otherwise files - and then, just as absent students in a class - there's no reply, since this message won't reach you; if something's wrong, I won't hear about it, if even this message is too much or not enough, it will have vanished in /dev/null or other 'recycle/trash' bin forever... Of course there might be rumors; this or that Poetics subscriber might have had a tidbit from some- where, a murmur or a whisper that I'm still around, but there's no way to know it. I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists for phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the government, fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even though there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some equals money as well. Ah well.. Alan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:11:58 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 21 Dec 2004 at 0:32, Alan Sondheim wrote: > Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as > Richard says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course > some of you do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, > but most of you at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or > otherwise files ... > I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists > for phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the > government, fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it > myself; even though there are no sales involved, there is still time > which for some equals money as well. Well, Alan, since it appears that you can actually put words together in English to make sense, and even express fellow-feeling with others, why do you do what you do? What's the theory or purpose behind posting an incomprehensible mass of unintelligibility day after day? Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:00:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steady as she goes, Alan. Hal "I need big art." --overheard in a Chelsea gallery Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ { I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists for { phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the government, { fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even though { there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some equals { money as well. { { Ah well.. { { Alan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:27:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: my solstice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit solstice here comes the sun barely a few seconds more than any other knowing big fusion lights up my sky brain so hemispheric atmospheric vodka vitamin d tonic ozoning toxic you are my sunshine relatively eternal my only sunshine you make me happy and burn my retinas sun spot less mind photosynthetic greening my equator desert my paramour panting in from the north country plasma storm I hear you coming maryjo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:27:12 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: there is one story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Juan at the Winter Solstice There is one story and one story only That will prove worth your telling, Whether as learned bard or gifted child; To it all lines or lesser gauds belong That startle with their shining Such common stories as they stray into. Is it of trees you tell, their months and virtues, Or strange beasts that beset you, Of birds that croak at you the Triple will? Or of the Zodiac and how slow it turns Below the Boreal Crown, Prison of all true kings that ever reigned? Water to water, ark again to ark, From woman back to woman: So each new victim treads unfalteringly The never altered circuit of his fate, Bringing twelve peers as witness Both to his starry rise and starry fall. Or is it of the Virgin's silver beauty, All fish below the thighs? She in her left hand bears a leafy quince; When, with her right she crooks a finger smiling, How may the King hold back? Royally then he barters life for love. Or of the undying snake from chaos hatched, Whose coils contain the ocean, Into whose chops with naked sword he springs, Then in black water, tangled by the reeds, Battles three days and nights, To be spewed up beside her scalloped shore? Much snow is falling, winds roar hollowly, The owl hoots from the elder, Fear in your heart cries to the loving-cup: Sorrow to sorrow as the sparks fly upward. The log groans and confesses There is one story and one story only. Dwell on her graciousness, dwell on her smiling, Do not forget what flowers The great boar trampled down in ivy time. Her brow was creamy as the crested wave, Her sea-blue eyes were wild But nothing promised that is not performed. Robert Graves ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:33:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: there is one story In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Art as Falsehood Art by its nature is about the significant. To the extent that art is an expression of the artist's being, it expresses what the artist thinks and feels to be significant. To the extent that art is an act of communication, it is a statement to an audience of what the artist thinks and feels to be important. When an artist decides to devote a week, a month, or a year or more of her life to creating This rather than That - she is saying that This is worth his time and effort. When the artist presents the results of his efforts to an audience, he is telling them that his creation is worthy of the time and effort of their contemplation. We do not waste our time on the insignificant or ask others to waste theirs - unless we wish to express the significant belief that nothing is significant. Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 7:27 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: there is one story > > > To Juan at the Winter Solstice > > There is one story and one story only > That will prove worth your telling, > Whether as learned bard or gifted child; > To it all lines or lesser gauds belong > That startle with their shining > Such common stories as they stray into. > > Is it of trees you tell, their months and virtues, > Or strange beasts that beset you, > Of birds that croak at you the Triple will? > Or of the Zodiac and how slow it turns > Below the Boreal Crown, > Prison of all true kings that ever reigned? > > Water to water, ark again to ark, > From woman back to woman: > So each new victim treads unfalteringly > The never altered circuit of his fate, > Bringing twelve peers as witness > Both to his starry rise and starry fall. > > Or is it of the Virgin's silver beauty, > All fish below the thighs? > She in her left hand bears a leafy quince; > When, with her right she crooks a finger smiling, > How may the King hold back? > Royally then he barters life for love. > > Or of the undying snake from chaos hatched, > Whose coils contain the ocean, > Into whose chops with naked sword he springs, > Then in black water, tangled by the reeds, > Battles three days and nights, > To be spewed up beside her scalloped shore? > > Much snow is falling, winds roar hollowly, > The owl hoots from the elder, > Fear in your heart cries to the loving-cup: > Sorrow to sorrow as the sparks fly upward. > The log groans and confesses > There is one story and one story only. > > Dwell on her graciousness, dwell on her smiling, > Do not forget what flowers > The great boar trampled down in ivy time. > Her brow was creamy as the crested wave, > Her sea-blue eyes were wild > But nothing promised that is not performed. > > Robert Graves > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:43:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Tonight - Winter Solstice Reading at CPF Tues., December 21st Comments: To: amyhappens@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit io saturnalia Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of amy king > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 6:51 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Tonight - Winter Solstice Reading at CPF Tues., December 21st > > > Dear Friends, > > The BROOKLYN RAIL PRESENTS > An evening reading to celebrate the Winter Solstice -- > > Please join us at Cheryl Pelavin Fine Arts for a Winter Solstice > celebration > with readings from these highly regarded poets and writers. There will be > drinks, snacks, and lots of atmosphere (Tamara Gonzales' show will be up > with a few added touches). > > You are encouraged to wear a funny hat! > > 6 - 8 PM - Tuesday - December 21, 2004 > > John Yau > Amy King > Monica de la Torre > Phong Bui > Arthur Bradford > > > The Egyptian and Persian traditions of celebrating the return of the sun > merged in ancient Rome in a festival to the ancient god of seed-time, > Saturn. > > The people gave themselves up to wild joy. The usual order of the year was > suspended: grudges and quarrels forgotten, wars interrupted or postponed. > Rich and poor were equal, masters served slaves, children headed > the family. > Cross-dressing and masquerades, merriment of all kinds prevailed. A mock > king -- the Lord of Misrule -- was crowned. Candles and lamps chased away > the spirits of darkness. > > > Cheryl Pelavin Fine Arts, 13 Jay Street, New York, NY 10013-2848 > Jay Street is two blocks south of Franklin between Greenwich and > Hudson St. > Tel: (212) 925-9424 > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:51:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Alan, I'm going to tailgate on Mairead's response to your query because I very much like what she said and the lovely way she put it. Although I don't always have time as much time as I would like to to read or examine all your work as thoroughly as I feel I really ought to, most of the time when I do I admire it, and frequently it stimulates me to think or inspires me to take the time for imaginative reverie. Your impressive ongoing (daily) commitment to creative productivity-and publication!- makes me think of a favorite maxim: "Perhaps a great love is never returned." (Dag Hammarskjold) Best wishes, Nick On 12/21/04 7:55 AM, "Mairead Byrne" wrote: > Dear Alan, > > I read your poetry sometimes. As you know, I've been reading your > poetry sometimes about 8 years now. Every year or so I send you a > message saying, "I liked that!" > > The reason I'm writing to you now is that I'm replying. I saw a little > thread and traced it back to you. I was slightly surprised. > > Poetry doesn't solicit response. In fact, poetry doesn't seem to > welcome the reader or make any real space. Is the reader a mirror? Is > the reader the writer's own breath on a snowy morning? > > I have been thinking about this question of poetry and audience. > > People like to respond, especially to someone they know, especially when > that someone solicits response. What's up with poetry that it closes > this exchange down? > > Mairead > >>>> sondheim@PANIX.COM 12/21/04 12:32 AM >>> > Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as Richard > says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course some of > you > do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, but most of > you > at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or otherwise files - and > then, just as absent students in a class - there's no reply, since this > message won't reach you; if something's wrong, I won't hear about it, if > even this message is too much or not enough, it will have vanished in > /dev/null or other 'recycle/trash' bin forever... Of course there might > be > rumors; this or that Poetics subscriber might have had a tidbit from > some- > where, a murmur or a whisper that I'm still around, but there's no way > to > know it. > > I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists for > phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the government, > fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even > though > there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some equals > money as well. > > Ah well.. > > Alan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:52:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bradley Redekop Subject: sink to my loo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I agree if art has a task and is art the task is to create a demand which can only be true if standards change. I agree with this I walk on the town's belly. What are emotions or the capacity to love? To nail my theses to space left by the opening door I will not be: sending Christmas packages this year. My best, Bradley ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:20:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Guardian obit for Jackson Mac Low Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,3604,1377151.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:02:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: there is one story In-Reply-To: <000a01c4e76a$003d8d40$199dad43@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { Art as Falsehood { { Art by its nature is about the significant. To the extent that art is an { expression of the artist's being, it expresses what the artist thinks and { feels to be significant. To the extent that art is an act of communication, { it is a statement to an audience of what the artist thinks and feels to be { important. When an artist decides to devote a week, a month, or a year or { more of her life to creating This rather than That - she is saying that This { is worth his time and effort. When the artist presents the results of his { efforts to an audience, he is telling them that his creation is worthy of { the time and effort of their contemplation. We do not waste our time on the { insignificant or ask others to waste theirs - unless we wish to express the { significant belief that nothing is significant. Or that nothing is insignificant? Hal Today's Special--Theory of Harmony www.xpressed.org/fall04/theory1.pdf Halvard Johnson halvard@earthlink.net http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:30:49 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Teen Turkish Poet Faces Death Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed from Nikos Kokkalis- Cyprus Indymedia: TURKEY DEMANDS DEATH PENALTY FOR "SONG OF FREEDOM" POET AGED 18 18 year old Gulan Intisar Saatcioglu is facing death penalty for reading her poem - "Song of Freedom" The report of the IHRC legal observer into the trial of Huda Kaya and 74 other peaceful demonstrators charged with trying to overthrow the Turkish constitution by force is now available below. "One of those charged is Gulan Intisaar Saatcioglu an 18 year old high school student. The evidence against her is the writing and recitation of the poem "Song of Freedom" outside the Governor"s building during the demonstration. Together with Kaya and 49 of the others, if found guilty she faces the death penalty. The youngest of this group is 15 years old." _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:48:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: close to an emergency! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking for current email address for Jim Behrle! Or phone number! Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:02:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Guardian obit for Jackson Mac Low In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20041221102004.039ce7a0@writing.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Charles, Is the "Ian Tyson" referred to in this obituary really the "country singer Ian Tyson" as the article claims -- or is it the British artist (including book artist) Ian Tyson, with whom Jackson collaborated with on a few occasions? Charles At 10:20 AM 12/21/2004 -0500, you wrote: >http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,3604,1377151.html > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:03:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: Guardian obit for Jackson Mac Low Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In response to Charles Alexander's question about which Ian Tyson: that's a funny mistake in the Guardain review. It's not Ian Tyson, the Canadian folk singer from "Ian and Sylvia" (aka Mitch of "Mitch & Mickey" in *A Mighty Wind*?), but Ian Tyson the British book artist (see, e.g., http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/arts/IanTyson.asp) who had collaborated with Jackson. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 19:07:14 +0100 Reply-To: Malcolm Davidson Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Malcolm Davidson Subject: Re: close to an emergency! In-Reply-To: <007901c4e77c$edd7a470$250110ac@AaronDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:48:41 -0600, Aaron Belz wrote: > Looking for current email address for Jim Behrle! Try his blog: http://thejimside.blog-city.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 15:05:58 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A non sequitur, unless you are accusing Alan of _posting an incomprehensible mass of unintelligibility day after day?_ In which case I'd like to see it demonstrated; and I mean something more than your finding it incomprehensible and unintelligible - slight redundancy in your expression there, I feel - because just finding a text unintelligible may be the result of an individual's cerebral dysfunction And if you do find it incomprehensible and unintelligible and are as hostile to it as you clearly are, based on this message of yours, why read it? And you must be reading it to have answered Perhaps you are trying to understand. In which case, less hostility might help Alan to help you all best L -----Original Message----- From: Marcus Bales To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 21 December 2004 13:12 Subject: Re: query Well, Alan, since it appears that you can actually put words together in English to make sense, and even express fellow-feeling with others, why do you do what you do? What's the theory or purpose behind posting an incomprehensible mass of unintelligibility day after day? Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 19:32:14 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mbrito@ULL.ES Subject: Rodrigo Toscano's e-mail address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I urgently need Rodrigo Toscano's e-mail address. Is there anyone who could backchannel me? Thnaks so much. Manuel Brito ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 15:51:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Cross Subject: 12/28 Michael Cross, Tanya Brolaski, and Eli Drabman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all: Please join us for what promises to be a very exciting event. If you are in the Bay Area for the holidays, we bring you a Buffalo embrace of joy! AND, this event marks the release of Drabman's new chap, _the ground running_, newly sewed and ready for your rabid consumption. If that weren't enough, Tanya Brolaski will be squarly sandwiched inbetween, dropping science from her _Daily Usonian_. From Kelly Holt: Dear Friends, It wouldn't be December without a house reading situated between holidays! Situate yourself in my house and come see Michael Cross, who'll be in from Buffalo, and celebrate with him the beautiful ATTICUS FINCH chapbook series, featuring Tanya Brolaski's THE DAILY USONIAN and Eli Drabman's THE GROUND RUNNING. Festivities begin with potluck at 6:30. Reading starts at 7:30. Tuesday, December 28 1336 4th Avenue San Francisco @Irving/ Parnassus Like BART? take it to Civic Center, then get off and take the N outbound. It stops at 4th & Irving. Don't like BART? get off the freeway at either Duboce/ Mission or Civic Center. Duboce: Follow Duboce to Market, turn left on Market then go up 17th St. when Market hits Castro (be in right lane). Follow 17th over the hill to Stanyan, turn left on Parnassus, turn right on 4th. The real miracle of Xmas is that parking lightens up significantly in my neighborhood, as all the med students are home doing their laundry. Please forward! Love, Kelly ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:33:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Day Theseus Roved A Raleigh There, Each Turn A Small Virginia Fair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this, V, is not a day for lyricism gone skeletal nearly, V, mine is nearly one, me, whose lyric I set beside this our day _______________ Lives of Eminent Assyrians Fall 2004 LOOT Fall 2003 http://www.xpressed.org/title.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:29:23 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allan There maybe those who feel it is me Spam - but in my case I have always found it fascinating - at one stage I tried to keep all your posts - I didn't save them (meantime my computer crashed) - but clearly you have a record of them all -? I don't find it completely an "incomprehensible mass" just that for me in any case at this stage sheer inertia -time and so on on my part have meant I haven't had time to look at your work as much as I would like - I'm working though other things and probably in my case as I came "back" into literature late in life and have a lot of catching up to do (I'm kind of "going backwards " and filling in gaps in my reading...catching up...)- although sometimes I think that is just an excuse not to publish (or to send work out) - I delete quite a lot of stuff but I intend eg to go back trough the files you have and the CD - later I might purchase some more books of you - I wish I could have permission to send some examples and an intro etc to Jack Ross for the next Brief in NZ ( local "innovative " magazine)- the DVD he is probably not so not so interested in just yet - (Jack may be interested - but I think will have to get one after Xmas) may get tat after Xmas but I think for a start more people in NZ should know something of what you re doing and - as much as possible (where you are "coming from") -there are problems there of course, as the language used by Derrida (and others) I and maybe others find very difficult - but Jack Ross is in fact au fait with all those guys (Barthes, Derrida etc etc - he has a PhD in literature and translates Old French poetry, French, Spanish and so on and has translated some of Pound (The "Fascist Cantos") and is the kind of person (see below hi interest in Acker - but his interests includes popular culture - he is viciously well read and well informed) who would be interested in what you are doing as but as I mention below he doesn't use the internet as much as he uses books and other and other media (at least I don't think so ) - but wee my previous reply to you on this reply as we only have 2 emails a day - and Brief mag is still getting to a reasonable;y wide audience of informed and some very bright & innovative writers (actually Charles Bernstein contributed to it when it was edited by Alan Looney and later I got Chris Stroffolino to publish there - The main problem Jack has is funding - cash shortage -literally it is hard to fund - it docile fold I then he ahs to subsidise it as certain academics (who often have a lot of fee money) don't pay very quickly - they seem to live in worked where money just appears as of a kind of right and they hate paying for much - have hardly ever been poor -- but I am generalising - I mean certain kinds of academics)) and that will be a bit sad (if it folds) as it is and has been perhaps the only significantly alternative of innovative lit. mag in New Zealand - I don't know about Australia I see you are there on Amy Ballardini's site - that's good. If stuff gets deleted or not read or read sporadically that is because we all have only so much time in the day - that isn't a crit of you - you can guarantee for every person who deletes all your work there is - well there is probably about 2 out of ten who are following you project closely (and even if its one in 100 you are doing brilliantly I thnk motor what I write of send have sent out has been either rejected or met with deafening silence! You are not alone in not getting a response Alan!! Even the negative responses might show you're having an effect...maybe. But I think people are out there thinking about what you are doing - they are at least INTERESTED - and of course on here there are writers such as August, Mary, Ian Van Huesen and Steve Dalachinsky and Nudel (and number of others) who are courageously also doing things and putting them on line (put your self on the line - feed me line - up and be counted )...(there's a poem somewhere about lines by Burns (the langpo Burns not the Scotsman!) and Jeff Harrison ( and others who are online and other who are doing Blogs etc) and some I forget at the moment - I have sent things - sometimes get a response - mostly a blast of white noise!!) - now that is pretty good to get any response - I think of things going on that I know of and yours is one of the most extraordinary projects (I am aware of -obviously there has to be a lot of other stuff happening - there is so much) - I know: as to finding it incomprehensible - I find a lot of work so - maybe not incomprehensible - maybe to see hard to see large works such as yours in any entirety (or even in much of an outline at this stage) (after all its a kind of work in progress? - crappy term I know -) I think I get a lot of it, it's just find it hard to say or express how it affects me or what I think you are doing - but ontologically I think I understand a lot of what you are sending out - I also find a lot of it strange - but strange is ok - and so on - hard to get the time to do so (give it justice) - and sometimes difficult to get a handle on what is being done - but I think Eliot's point that a great or a majorly significant work is first engaged before it is comprehended (totally - if it ever is such) is true in your case (ok Eliot is the arch enemy of many on here but he was great critics and a great poet - but I think that Olson and so on would also have appreciated what you are doing - is there any critical writing on your work Alan by the way?) also it could be said that a lot of major work baffles and repels initially (sometimes we have to give strong attention to a work or suspend subjective responses or superficial reactions..) - there is no immediate engagement (necessarily) but there is an immediate interest - key word - interest - your work disturbs and sometimes repels or is bothersome etc but it is always intriguing - or I feel it is... As to relative evaluation etc that is up to the critics - people much more astute than me (or people who use lots of long words and sound astuter than me! And some who use lots of long words an d ARE astuter!!) and they of course can all be wrong!! Alan - this may be an insulting question - but are you always a serious person? Probably not - clearly you are passionately driven in this your project - but it helps to laugh at things now and then, chill out , not to stop though! onto to becomes "undark" - but I don't mean (laugh) at yourself too much - and I'm not laughing at you. I think I know somewhat know what you are doing - considering I haven't read as much of the texts etc as I want to yet -I think I kind of "know" it ontologically (the term used by Scroggins writing on Zukofsky re difficulty based on an essay by Steiner which I actually had read some time ago - its is a way into the question of "difficulty" btw) - or I know 'in my bones' or "get" what your are doing - I "dig it" - if obliquely - for now. [Don't ask me about my struggle with the works of Alan Brunton of New Zealand!! One of his books - "Moonshine - that I tried to critique or parse -is like a Universe of references etc and ideas!! It nearly drove me crazy tat book ---) - but more of him anon ..there is some reference to him on the NZEPC online] You may not know of the comedians Dudley Moore and Pert Cook but tin their very crazy (originally illicit) tapes CDs I remember D M as Derek in "Derek and Clive" suddenly shouting: " They're all cunts out there!" (Tongue in cheek - but many a truth is said in in jest !! If its all getting you down sometime Alan do some screaming to that effect around your house - as long as no one is around - it works wonders!! My belief is growing that you are doing "something extraordinary" even if just now haven't or can't see it all as I would like to do - for the reasons above - below I have put my original reply to you. So this is Part One! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ Of those I have read nothing of Kathy Acker but a friend (Jack Ross ) of NZ has (he says) been very influenced by her novels - his writing is very interesting but he isn't interested in cyber writing per se I don't think - so it would be hard to get you to see his work (unless you buy some of his books) - but it impressed me one day when he made a strong emphasis (in a small group of us who used to meet to discuss poetry etc) that he wanted to do something very original and he mentioned Kathy Acker (as an influence or a model) - re Celan I hadn't heard of until a friend apprised me of his work (around 1994) - I looked at the European poets and Trakl was the poet I liked the most - but I cant read any languages (well I can if I have translation can sort of get a feel for it then) so I rely on translations to read Celan etc- I was fascinated by Pierre Joris's translation of one of his poems -and his reference to his connection to Heidegger. The Bartok was between some Beethoven and Bach and while one of my daughters likes classical and other the other daughter (Dionne) is not so keen - and the particular piece is a but dark I must concede...what do you think of Charles Ives's work and Copeland? I know Ives's work better and I like his ideas - in fact the ideas came also via his father who "detuned " pianos before Cage did.... i like the ideas of Cage bringing sounds into music and a degree of partcipation by listeners into music/concepts etc I like the way Ives mixes harmonies until they beocome dsiharmonies - has references to Brahms and a popular song etc Auster talks about "The Book of Changes" by Jabes but I couldn't really get much from that book. Some phrases etc - the idea of it is interesting though. Obviously you have read a lot into (and out of) the various philosophers and critics - I have read some of them (some of Barthes and so on ) but Derrida only second hand - that's my reference to the chase of signifiers: I have a book by him - I opened it - read the first line - copied the line into a book I have of phrases, passages etc - and closed it! Not because I thought it was nonsense or anything - I just was diverted onto reading other stuff - I keep doing that - moving from writer to writer - I'll be half way through a book and a reference comes up so I start reading that writer - the infinite chase in action! Or the finite chase.... I meant I hadn't had time to assess the work in any overall or integral way - simply for time reasons - but also I don't know if I had anything original to say about what you have done - its certainly challenging: but it requires a young man's energy to write intelligently or critically - Don't think I have enough knowledge of cyber space or Philosohy or even poetics - I can only evaluate by my feeling about your work - my more or less immediate responses - but I think about what you are doing quite a lot...as I say there is so much of your and other work - this could be one reason you have not got as much "recognition" maybe as you deserve - also it difficult to assess - ro think carefully or critically about something "in progress" - my feeling is that something extraordinary is going on - but I haven't seen perhaps as much of other works - clearly others are doing projects etc - yours (in the form it is and of this length) seems to me to be unique - but I don't know - ie of these works that also utilise the internet and the visual - it isn't a criticism - one can't say of what you are doing - this is just "bad" - that's not even meaningful - or even to say "it's brilliant " - that registers enthusiasm but doesn't say much - I will have to have a good look - I'm also struggling through the poetry of a rather different writer Kendrick Smithyman of New Zealand - who did no cyber stuff - but who wrote a huge amount of poetry... I find it hard to read a lot of poetics and philosophy but I like reading art critcism and then I kind of "deconstruct it" (although I was doing that before I knew what deconstructon meant exactly - not sure if I do now) - as I say have only read (most of the philosophers such as Derrida via critics who mention them) - art has a big influence on what I do...(or has done -don't write much just now). I know that your work is not just "in cyberland" and in fact is basically inclusive of all media - maybe includes all aspects of human consciousness? More anon - no need to tell you to keep on! Cheers, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 6:32 PM Subject: query > Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as Richard > says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course some of you > do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, but most of you > at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or otherwise files - and > then, just as absent students in a class - there's no reply, since this > message won't reach you; if something's wrong, I won't hear about it, if > even this message is too much or not enough, it will have vanished in > /dev/null or other 'recycle/trash' bin forever... Of course there might be > rumors; this or that Poetics subscriber might have had a tidbit from some- > where, a murmur or a whisper that I'm still around, but there's no way to > know it. > > I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists for > phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the government, > fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even though > there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some equals > money as well. > > Ah well.. > > Alan > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:39:21 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Move over systems biology here comes systems literary... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This article can be found on the web at http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=3D20050103&s=3Dderesiewicz The Literary World System by WILLIAM DERESIEWICZ The World Republic of Letters by Pascale Casanova; M.B. DeBevoise, trans. [from the January 3, 2005 issue] What are you doing? I mean, right now. You're reading a book review. A review of a book that, as it happens, is almost certain to become quite famous among intellectuals around the world over the next few years. And the reason it will become so famous is, in part, because of reviews like this one. After all, Perry Anderson, writing in the London Review of Books, has proclaimed that La R=E9publique mondiale des lettres "is likely to have the same sort of liberating impact...as Said's Orientalism, with which it stands comparison"--a prophecy that, because it is by Perry Anderson, and because it is the London Review of Books, is, to an extent, self-fulfilling. So by reading this review--becoming one of the people who've heard of the book, who've begun to form an opinion about it, who might even buy it, read it, discuss it, cite it--you're not only learning about its impending fame, you're becoming part of the process by which that fame is established, a process the book itself calls "legitimation." (Translation, the act that has turned La R=E9publique mondiale des lettres into The World Republic of Letters, is another step in that process.) And this is perfectly apt, because the mechanisms of legitimation--the global economy of prestige that ushers some authors into the international literary sphere while keeping others shut out--is exactly what Pascale Casanova's brilliant, groundbreaking book is all about. To understand why it's groundbreaking, it helps to know how the international literary sphere is usually thought about--or rather, not thought about. Academic departments, literary academies, histories and reference works, honors and prizes: The institutions of literary life almost invariably partition the world of literature into discrete, autonomous national traditions--English over here, American over there; Italian in this classroom, Spanish in that; German Romanticism, French Symbolism, the Russian novel. Even the Nobel Prize, our one global literary honor, makes a point of emphasizing the national provenance of its laureates, so that it is understood that it is often a country as much as an author that is being recognized, and that the consecration of, say, a Saramago, shuts the door on all other Portuguese writers for the foreseeable future. As for the books that enter our national literary space from the outside (especially from outside the English-speaking world), do we ever think about why some reach us and not others? Where do translated writers "come from"? Are they simply the most celebrated authors in their own countries? (In fact, they often aren't.) If we think about these questions at all, we probably assume that the writers we become aware of are just better than the ones we don't. (But "better" according to what criteria, enforced by whom?) In other words, we've bought into the myth of an international literary meritocracy, or, in Casanova's words, "the fable of an enchanted world...where universality reigns through liberty and equality...the notion of literature as something pure, free, and universal." Casanova's work amounts to a radical remapping of global literary space--which means, first of all, the recognition that there is a global literary space. Her insights build on world systems theory, the idea, developed by Fernand Braudel and Immanuel Wallerstein, that the capitalist economy that has emerged since about 1500 must be understood as a single global system of interlinked national economies. Some of these economies belong to the ruling "core," others to the dependent "periphery," but none can coherently be studied as a discrete entity. Casanova, a scholar at the Center for Research in Arts and Language in Paris, argues, convincingly, that an analogous literary system, a "world republic of letters," has gradually taken shape since around the same time. In her analysis, a core group of nations--France, England and the founders of other "major" European literatures--having built up large reserves of "literary capital" over the past several centuries, control the means of cultural legitimation for the countries of the global literary periphery--a region that, as in the capitalist world system, has grown ever larger over the past two centuries with, first, the rise of European nationalism and, second, decolonization, as nations without previous literary standing, and writers from those nations, have sought international validation. And the capital of the world republic of letters, the place to which even other countries of the core must look for ultimate consecration and the global reputation it brings, is Paris. That last idea might damage the English speaker's amour-propre, but our self-esteem should be diminished even more by the evidence Casanova marshals to support her thesis. For it is an ongoing source of shame that so many of the finest exponents even of our own literature were acclaimed in Paris while still virtually unknown in London and New York. Faulkner, without a name in the United States until just three years before winning the 1949 Nobel Prize, was celebrated in France from as early as 1931. Joyce, though already recognized within the avant-garde, was unable to find a publisher for Ulysses until the book was taken up by the great French translator Valery Larbaud. In later years, Tropic of Cancer, Lolita and Naked Lunch would join the list of pathbreaking English-language novels first published in Paris. It was also through France that much of English literature found an international audience. Casanova lists Shakespeare, Scott, Byron and Poe among the authors whose works were long read in French translation, or translations based on the French, throughout Europe and Latin America. This isn't true just of English literature, of course, but of all literature, which is why Paris has been the capital of literary exiles for the past two centuries. And it is also why Paris is the answer to the question of where translated writers "come from." Borges and Kundera are just two of the many authors who became known in the English-speaking world--and the world in general--only after being consecrated by Paris. How did this state of affairs come about? Casanova traces the emergence of an international literary sphere to Joachim du Bellay's 1549 essay "The Defense and Illustration of the French Language," which amounted, as she puts it, to a "declaration of war against the domination of Latin."Over the ensuing century and a half, France built up its "literary assets" through, among other means, the translation and imitation of classical models, linguistic standardization and purification, and the refinement of poetic forms and meters, so that by the reign of Louis XIV--the age of Pascal, Moli=E8re and Racine--French had accomplished the unthinkable, displacing Latin as the language of literary classicism. As a consequence, Casanova claims, English and other national literary identities emerged in competition with France. Finally, with the awakening to consciousness of nations like Germany--nations that, unlike England, Spain or Italy, had no literary heritage such as would allow them to compete with France on its own, classical terms--a new means of accumulating literary assets emerged. This was the path first articulated by Herder, the eighteenth-century German philosopher and great champion of folk culture: Instead of deriving from classical antiquity, literary capital would now originate in a nation's unique soul or "genius," as expressed in its traditional oral culture--an idea that would prove crucial not only for the emerging nations of Europe during the nineteenth century but for the postcolonial world today. Whatever the terms under which it was conducted, however, it was this rivalry among national literatures that led to the creation of an international literary space. Indeed, it led, one might say, to the creation of literature itself--literature as an autonomous realm--for it was, paradoxically, through this same struggle that literary values were asserted independently of national political and moral agendas. By constituting a transnational sphere in which literature could be judged on its own terms, this rivalry enabled writers to appeal beyond their national publics, with their invariably conservative values. It made possible, in other words, the creation of an avant-garde. (And it is because of its unique hospitality to the avant-garde that Paris has endured as the world's literary center.) Here is where Casanova parts company with the historicism that has swept literary studies over the past two decades. Rather than tying literary phenomena to underlying social and political developments, she charts an autonomous history for literature itself. The world republic of letters is governed by its own rules, keeps time by its own historical clock, partitions the world according to its own map and features its own economics, its own inequalities and its own forms of violence. Casanova devotes the second half of her book to exploring the means by which writers from the literary periphery have sought to break into the center--a myriad of struggles whose existence has heretofore been concealed by "the fable of an enchanted world...where universality reigns through liberty and equality." The breadth of her scholarship here is staggering: from South America to North Africa, Eastern Europe to East Asia; from the emergent Modernism of Ibsen and Yeats to the most recent postcolonial hybridities; from "assimilationists" like Naipaul and Cioran to "rebels" like Neruda and Achebe. Aside from the uncanny consistency of these strategies across time and space--a consistency the recognition of which ought to have a liberating effect on writers working in the loneliness of peripheral obscurity--two overriding ideas emerge. First, that for well over a century literary innovation has been driven almost exclusively by the hunger of marginalized writers for international acceptance. Ibsen, Joyce, Faulkner, Beckett, Borges, Garc=EDa M=E1rquez, Rushdie: By making themselves even more modern than Paris, the "Greenwich meridian" of literary modernity, these great revolutionaries remade the center in their own image, setting the standards of avant-garde practice for writers the world over. Second, that for all the inequalities of its imperial structure, the international literary sphere itself plays a liberating as much as a dominating role. Even as it forces writers from marginalized countries to submit to its norms as the price of recognition, it also frees them from domination by their countries' own nation-building projects and moral and aesthetic prejudices. Ibsen appealed to Paris and London in his struggle against Christiania; Joyce leveraged Paris against both Dublin and London. Casanova's reluctance to acknowledge the positive dimensions of the international literary sphere is one of the book's flaws. That reluctance is ultimately a failure to come to terms with her own ambivalence, a failure that smacks of political correctness. On the one hand, she seeks, admirably, to serve the world's marginalized writers by restoring the "political and historical specificity" of their work, thus debunking the notion of literary universality as a product of the "inherent blindnesses of the consecrating authorities." On the other hand, equally to her credit, she clearly cherishes the notion of literary universality, of literary values that transcend political and historical particulars. Granted that her ultimate goal is "a new literary universality," rejecting her own impulses leads her to sequester some important truths. First, that writers at the center are also capable of revolutionary innovation; Modernism began in France, after all, and Frenchmen like Proust and Robbe-Grillet continued to play important roles throughout most of the twentieth century. Second, that peripheral innovation "liberates" the center as much as it does the rest of the world; only in a footnote does she admit, for example, that Claude Simon was as much Faulkner's disciple as was Garc=EDa M=E1rquez. A less doctrinaire, more dialectical understanding of relations between center and periphery is clearly needed. Casanova is also surprisingly enamored of the great-man model of historical causation. Without du Bellay and Herder, apparently, literary history would have been completely different. Indeed, her whole account of the initial emergence of the international literary sphere, from the sixteenth through the eighteenth centuries, is sketchy and dubious. Her Francocentrism requires her to minimize Dante's De vulgari eloquentia, a defense of the vernacular that preceded du Bellay by two and a half centuries, as well as to obscure the monumental achievements of sixteenth-century Italian literature--Ariosto, Tasso, Machiavelli, Castiglione--that ultimately flowed from it. And far from English literary identity's emerging in competition with France during the eighteenth century (if anything, cultural admiration traveled the other way at the time), we already find the language being defended as equal to Latin, Spanish, French and Italian around the time of du Bellay--a truer picture of the international literary space that had already begun to emerge during the Renaissance. Indeed, for all her remarkable knowledge of global literary developments, Casanova is surprisingly, even laughably, ignorant of the English literary scene, asserting at one point that Shakespeare had not yet become canonical by the turn of the twentieth century (about two centuries too late) because he was considered "subversive." Given that Britain has been France's great rival for literary pre-eminence over the past 400 years, this ignorance is rather too perfectly ironic. Still, the main thrust of Casanova's argument, which covers roughly the last century and a half, is unimpeachable. She has created a map of global literary power relations where none had existed, and she has raised a host of further questions. What exactly are the mechanisms and institutions of legitimation? Just how important, for example, are book reviewers like me and readers like you? How applicable is her model to power relations within individual countries? What kinds of self-betrayals, for example, does New York exact, and what kinds of resistance does it provoke, from writers from the American hinterland? How relevant is her model to the other arts? (Undoubtedly, very much so.) Most important, how relevant is it to the world of today? Casanova herself acknowledges, in a brief chapter that feels like a late insertion, that the system of literary internationalism governed from Paris may have already given way to one of commercial globalization controlled by mostly American publishing conglomerates. With the development of mass-produced, globally marketed literary product that mimics, as Casanova puts it, the style of Modernism--she mentions "world fiction" like the novels of Umberto Eco and David Lodge, to which one might add the many books that piggyback on established literary "brands" (The Dante Club, The Jane Austen Book Club, Anna in the Tropics, etc.)--true literature, like everything else of any value, may be on its way to being replaced by a clever simulacrum of itself. But the most important question her book raises, for me at least, is simply this: Why are we so lame? Why is American culture, and the American intelligentsia in particular, so closed off from what's happening in the rest of the world? Why do we still need Paris to tell us what's going on (if we still even listen to it)? If anything, the situation is more dire than it used to be, when instability or repression in Europe supplied us with a steady stream of =E9migr=E9s who acted as a bridge back to their former world. Susan Sontag used to play a similar role, but she no longer does, and no one's taken her place. The more we impose our image on the world, it seems, the more foreign the world becomes. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:02:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: kievfollowfocus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed kievfollowfocus
kievfollowfocus
we need a revolution
we won't get a revolution
the rapture will kill me
the rapture will throw focus
kiev is the follow-focus girl
kiev runs and circulates
if they can do it we can do it
kiev now and forever
  don't forget the jews killed though
no i don't think that all the time
there was more to this
waiting for the rapture to end it all
i'll be the first one killed
there's a revolution inside me
nothing will stop it nothing
i wrote and wrote and it disappeared
on about followfocuskiev
about futurefocuskiev
focusfuturekiev
about kievfocusfuture
they'll get us in the end we'll resist
we'll hold ourselves against them we'll do that
it will happen just that way it will
it will happen just that way
nothing will stop it nothing http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim/kievfollowfocus.mov _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:02:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: re query, reply of sorts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I want to thank people who have replied. There _is_ something inert, a quietude or silence, I think - Mairead's 'Poetry doesn't solicit response. In fact, poetry doesn't seem to welcome the reader or make any real space.' - which perhaps separates the poetic, even the call of the poetic, from the call of everyday speech, the utterance which establishes a framework for action or communication. The welcoming must cross the wall of formality, the rhyme or alliteration, the confluence of tropes. One must give oneself over to the poem. [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ]roup ofT To [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ]other "major" [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ]large reserves [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ]t several [Processing filter "Filter Rule" ]of "literary capital" over As far as the mass of incomprehensible unintelligibility, one might say that of Joyce, of Stein, of a computer program, of any foreign language, of any risk or wager in language. It may not be too much to expect anyone today in the humanities to be somewhat familiar with computers, even with the basics of one or another language or protocol - at least with search strategies, which, after all, are part or parcel of our everyday behavior. I can honestly say, from within the interior of my writing, nothing is incomprehensible; there are reasons for everything, and it is much more calculated than it might appear. It is not automated or generated in the sense of a Mozart or Maclow; it may be shaped by program fragments, but it is shaped for a purpose (i.e. within a sememe I'm concerned about, to the detriment perhaps of syntactical autonomy). I think of it in some sense as a break in fluidity and a breaking of the bones of language which we take for granted; we are witnesses in Solzhenitsyn's sense, but we must make the language anew, against the sign of capital which corrupts everything we do. Hence innumerable avant-gardes with their magazines and institutions of production, quite acceptable, hardly bothering anyone, perhaps not avant-gardes at all. There has been critical writing on my work by Maria Damon, among others; it's not that easily accessible. Sandy Baldwin has also written some, and there have been a few interviews. I am forgetting as well, for which apologies. And all of us deserve a Boswell. More (trying to answer what I remember) - I'm consistently concerned with meaning, not with stochastic processes. I don't use language generation devices (although I wrote some programs years ago which did such); I think constantly of _perception_ and _wonder_ in relation to the real (such as it is or is not), and how these con/figure language. I am currently reading - and this plays into my work - Bayle's Various Thoughts on the Occasion of a Comet; Windows XP Annoyances for Geeks; Allison/de Olveira/Roberts/Weiss's anthology Psychosis and Sexual Identity (on Schreber), Thorstein Veblen on the Jews, Dorothy Hayden's A Field Guide to Sprawl, Kristi Yamaguchi's Figure Skating for Dummies; and watching http://www.spaceflightnow.com/delta/d310/status.html and http://www.boeing.com/news/feature/livewebcast/d4_heavy_webcast.htm . Now some of these works use specialized vocabulary; even the livewebcast is full of acronyms. It's a learning process and I'm still learning here. By the way, I recommend the Yamaguchi, Bayle, and Hayden in particular. Every book such as those mentioned, but every book, is a world, a psychosis itself, closed, fortified, defended. Every variation is a final text, every one a production involving energy, labor, language, process. In at least one sense, every book is equivalent to every other - in this sense of worlding, the diegetic process opening to the reader. My work concerns the bones: of the book, of language, of the substructure that conveys these particular words to you, as if they 'came' from me. To ignore these basic issues of electronic distributivity is to write on the surface of water. The issues: protocols, codes, codework, intellectual property, spam, noise, dissolution, cohesion, variation, transitive processes of all sorts that modify, redeploy, destroy, reconstruct, recuperate, wound, heal, ignore, procure, what might have passed for the words or worry-words of the author. I honestly believe my work is as incomprehensible as the world we're living in - with its deep incoherencies, clashes of epistemes and even ontologies. In other words, both require pathing, studying, and certainly not returning to a fundamentalism of literature, genre, religion, or any other. That way lies disaster. As perhaps does the thickness of my own writing and its continuation. Now the reason for the query, this writing in absolute silence - I don't have the luxury of teaching or institution; what I do, I do clumsily on my own, in relative isolation in Brooklyn. There is little discussion with my friends. The writing is a solitude which splits, Pessoa. It is also a noise which coalesces, Siratori. I beg for feedback, hopefully constructive. For my own sanity, I have to send to /dev/null the rest, the condition of my kill file. Why every day? Because this is what I do, what shapes the work. And no, it's not just turned out randomly or at speed; everything is gone over, over and over again, and a lot of material is scrapped. If I don't write, I don't sleep, don't function. I wrote once to the effect that I write myself into existence; I write myself out of existence - such as it is. The existence is a fetal bubble, nothing more. over "cover-up" that may leave F.B.I. "holding theive strong attention to a 21771 q6 R+ 0:00.00 bag" for abuses. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:23:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: query - just like 'yes-man' matrices - (aka: standing-in-line) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is no point in attributing quality to what is *always* already there. "If love exists why remember it?" - LZ My best advice for Alan is to stop posting to the list to tame his ego a bit. Take a shower; sit on the toilet; go for a drive. Don't do the same thing over-and-over again!! Dare he try something new? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: for derke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed for derke http://www.asondheim.org/delta.mp3 yes yes yes yes yes i will reform ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 05:38:02 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: query - just like 'yes-man' matrices - (aka: standing-in-line) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what do you mean by new in this context? L -----Original Message----- From: derekrogerson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 22 December 2004 05:23 Subject: Re: query - just like 'yes-man' matrices - (aka: standing-in-line) > >There is no point in attributing quality to what is *always* already >there. > > >"If love exists why remember it?" - LZ > > >My best advice for Alan is to stop posting to the list to tame his ego a >bit. Take a shower; sit on the toilet; go for a drive. Don't do the same >thing over-and-over again!! > >Dare he try something new? > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 01:23:30 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Victoria SWAG Selling Sixty $10.00 Memberships MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit re: Victoria Status Women Action Group Do you need $10 in Canadian or US? Do I get a male member card or a mug? What are the benefits? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:27:51 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Alan - and Listers I want to emphasize that I in no way felt it was "an incomprehensible mass" - your (Alan's) work has a density and complexity that is incredible - and I have always been fascinated by what you (Alan) are doing (while sometimes exasperated and sometimes baffled and sometimes too tired to read a particular post - BUT I don't agree with someone who said "why do it .." that question is really "why write poetry ..." - it is one of those questions which is ok (but asks a lot of other question such as "what is poetry?" -nothing wrong with that but its going off onto another subject - although it could be argued that Alan's work asks just that : what indeed, is a poem? A text etc? A modern work? and so on..) but coupled with: "incomprehensible mass" - such as question or allegation is ambiguous - Steve Dalachinsky asks whether or why it is an issue - well the reason or prompt that motivated my first email on this was that I was reading through your (Alan's) posts (the work done this year) and making a big effort to get onto them - I was suggesting that some people might feel that way - I was in fact giving feedback. I felt that that was good way to make a response - its not good enough fro me to say "this is a lovely poem" and so on - what you are doing requires real work from the reader I feel (we owe it to all poets to give close attention to their work and give them respect -as far as possible) And why is it an issue? - It is an issue -it is a very human thing - nearly a vital thing to need and respond to feedback (and to give feedback ) to what one is doing or to one's communications - how could a singer feel without an audience? I mean a professional singer - eg a concert of any music (of whatever style or genre) requires and audience and often immediate feedback - the feedback can in turn energise the performer/creator). And I think that it is important that though we write partly for ourselves - that writing or any creative activity is always on one level for our own creative enjoyment and fulfilment - we, as humans in a social world - we are social beings - always want feed back (its almost a genetic necessity) - imagine talking to a group of people (who you were or are friends with) and suddenly no one answers - the silent treatment is terrible - its maybe shouldn't be - but it is - we need feedback. Sure - we can be capable of driving on regardless and that is good - but Emily Dickinson did that - went there. Alan's project is one that needs feedback and even participation. I think that we are seeing an extraordinary work unfolding here which has great significance for 20./21st Century Literature I started a poem up the other day and named it "The Sondheim Effect" - it shows the influence of Alan on here... Alan Sondheim in my book has gone way past the Language poets while incorporating concepts generated from that movement - he is immensely talented even as a "pure poet". It is as if we had been privileged to witness the making of Finnegan's Wake - or the writing of King Lear. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 6:32 PM Subject: query > Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as Richard > says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course some of you > do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, but most of you > at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or otherwise files - and > then, just as absent students in a class - there's no reply, since this > message won't reach you; if something's wrong, I won't hear about it, if > even this message is too much or not enough, it will have vanished in > /dev/null or other 'recycle/trash' bin forever... Of course there might be > rumors; this or that Poetics subscriber might have had a tidbit from some- > where, a murmur or a whisper that I'm still around, but there's no way to > know it. > > I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists for > phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the government, > fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even though > there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some equals > money as well. > > Ah well.. > > Alan > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:17:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Guardian obit for Jackson Mac Low In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20041221124841.03d94d70@pop.bway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hopefully it will be changed. I contacted the Guardian and informed them. At 01:03 PM 12/21/2004 -0500, you wrote: >In response to Charles Alexander's question about which Ian Tyson: that's a >funny mistake in the Guardain review. > >It's not Ian Tyson, the Canadian folk singer from "Ian and Sylvia" (aka >Mitch of "Mitch & Mickey" in *A Mighty Wind*?), but Ian Tyson the British >book artist (see, e.g., >http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/arts/IanTyson.asp) who had collaborated >with Jackson. > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 02:44:20 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ....so i took out the whip ....& showed it to her ....."muse, dahlink" i sd: ....."hit me again" sh sd: nite 3:00....under the snow the lite...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 02:47:00 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ....so i took out the whip ....& showed it to her ....."muse, dahlink" i sd: ....."hit me again" she sd: nite 3:00....under the snow the lite...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:11:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: close to an emergency! Comments: To: eeksypeeksy@gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit try jimbehrle@yahoo.com he lives in ny now in brooklyn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:28:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: prince lasha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >cecil taylor trio @ castle clinton 7/29/04 ( for (e) shadow ) > > >tell this dy /// nam is mos >useless blues & pinks > in mentus >this is daylight when we most need it when >there is no day left >this is river in a shadow >shadow against an even/ing when >tree become sky > > no mental can the shadows stay this silent for so>long > the bricks that never saw the war they fought for > > it is a yellow in the eye > useless magenta that crosses our lives > >the sun is behind me the sun > it heats my neck > dy na mis mos contrarios > one >immigrant says to another > i passed thru here > (too) > > vialavitsef feast & live > tale tail's tale to taste > aventus creatus >rowldtercompat > >the act of natural act of.................. > i've come >thru here too > the shadows >never move > the trees & >sky are one > glass & stone >& steel a blding make > fingers make >things happen >one immigrant says to another > glass stone & >steel > are the >building blocks of this world > >trader trapped inside the gullum >is a wink the paper asleep >i crumble > in uniform your day begins > like this: shadows never move > sun behind your back > useless magenta > bricks that tell a tale > fingers make things happen > >running spotlights cannot function before the nite arrives >it is really not the clock that determines transition >that crosses our lives > one immigrant says to another > it is when the sun crosses our backs like a river > a festival a >world - > > sonic tellin panic > when the light that was created > becomes the light that was invented > a bet earned a wise trade a gorge traversed > >2( money is the (M) angle > we will not be fed by sunlight a loan > even now as evening turns snurt the concessions > no time for this/that it's obligat(o)ion >0bliGate > it's now dark it feels > > one immigrant says to another > >feel my neck it passed this way > this is no joke > privitize my sacrament it's cool now hands on it's cool now > the useless magenta adds to the piano's song > this world was built by hands > tree & sky no longer touch > the shadows have become a river > that does not flow > brick is what i call your face > i remain attached to my allegiance > tea is a drink for two (3) > this shifting desire is a wedge > between the clock & the hrs > clamusin tourista raditsula bo ard > > such useless appendages these hands against the unmanacled day. > > >cecil taylor in absentia < elvin jones tribute @ the blue note > > >until recently >cecil would play only on a >bo send or fer sob for >tonite one awaited him sub for re fer >but he was a no/show send for > dense >money /fend er bend/er >was whispered bender >into >an ear > we see that it did not mean a thing > into the air it whispered > but for the drummer we must keep playing > > the blues >end for >option >umlaut <> on slaught ex act i tude re act off >ad >re >con verse serve multiples >lost swing > wings > boast > here the or lost not surely just freedom speaks >theory terror > bus end or refer to >file > away boost >dogyouham > good only > while supply lasts. > > > > steve dalachinsky 6/04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >cecil taylor in absentia < elvin jones tribute @ the blue note > > >until recently >cecil would play only on a >bo send or fer sob for >tonite one awaited him sub for re fer >but he was a no/show send for > dense >money /fend er bend/er >was whispered bender >into >an ear > we see that it did not mean a thing > into the air it whispered > but for the drummer we must keep playing > > the blues >end for >option >umlaut <> on slaught ex act i tude re act off >ad >re >con verse serve multiples >lost swing > wings > boast > here the or lost not surely just freedom speaks >theory terror > bus end or refer to >file > away boost >dogyouham > good only > while supply lasts. > > > > steve dalachinsky 6/04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conquistador 75 > > > i mud=20 > dum i ri lub > dim cub az dumr > rid jz luc rum > > mor than what luk bring > dumluc at that > iz present arm a jum > mor arm than bulc uzd > mad and dam so eyes dotted > drum i disquit condor =20 > atatuud > > > steve dalachinsky 2004 ><< Conquistador75.doc >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:40:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Silence Is #00001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Silence Is #00001 Silence is blueprints staggers arbiters: silence is stonecrop. comprehensive proclaims introductory: silence is rip: silence is landscape. intergovernmental fluency arrests: silence is keyhole. by using: silence is midst. a singular god: silence is sprung. craftsmanship took torpedo: silence is guideline. courtship tenor detainment: silence is spatial: silence is noble. tiananmen elicits dexterous: silence is heritable. gangster consideration outpour: silence is projector. outcomes heaping syntax: silence is triune. seas the appears: silence is deeper lungs: silence is fled. vasoline luminosity beret: silence is type. the line of sohesion: silence is shifter. martyrdom population limerick: silence is projector. outcomes heaping syntax: silence is codfish. imprisonment bidding policy: silence is workload. prodding upfront balls: silence is inside. comical givens observers: silence is inversion. from physical life: silence is pivotal. hits hard at: silence is felt. is obsidian. aims congress nunnery: silence is rainfall. in terms of: silence is resistor. are big words: silence is spacious. secretive and longings: silence is eidetic. overview emanates transvestites: silence is psyche. had business there: silence is poetry. presenting and structured: silence is estimates: silence is keyhole. by using: silence is volcano. generate deviant thoughts: silence is intersect. trolled sounding oriented: silence is treatise. its own version: silence is quote. relationship and emphatically: silence is santa. and structured: silence is whomever. prototype numbers pretexts: silence is globulin. consummation manifesto frangible: silence is extant. a scene: silence is concurrent. beneath still stand: silence is volcano. generate deviant thoughts: silence is barbarian. barriers broadly bush: silence is balm. spice up history: silence is nullify. sources and emphatically: silence is goldfish. sharply rising demented: silence is martian. appearance of meetings: silence is value: silence is intellect. turbine scope serviceman: silence is insomniac. female process pretend: silence is edges: silence is value: silence is fluster. gunpowder to endorse: silence is beautiful. the sneakers: silence is windowsill. agent of meetings: silence is insomniac. female process pretend: silence is timetable. universe is bond. velocity is lynx. logos exchanges scrubbing: silence is inventive. unwanted and traumatized: silence is assemblage. closeted truth cheerleaders: silence is emitter. sugarplum manequin dances: silence is quote. relationship and autobiographical: silence is pinball. absolutism murals notebooks: silence is diagnose. more the line between: silence is volcano. generate deviant thoughts: silence is isomorph. only to the founding myth: silence is sonant. shortly lantern scapegoat: silence is diction: silence is rivet. wells go back: silence is roadside. able to reject both: silence is gravid. airplanes birthing chanteuse: silence is santa. and brighter fun: silence is absentia. real life drama: silence is armpit. instance liberation reich: silence is coherent. choise of petrol: silence is attorney. collapse is saturday. density is chafe. than polka dot: silence is dementia. colleagues of getting: silence is handclasp. vanishing ex frequency composers dungeon: silence is shelter. to move: silence is menu. cheesy final ends: silence is courteous. justice ferrys harmful: silence is zero: silence is alto. aesthetician revolution synthesis: silence is bloodshot. be carried out: silence is fluster. gunpowder to conform: silence is atonal. exhaltation impending tempered: silence is british. stipulations knowledgeably hypertextual: silence is seminar. battlegrounds manage hints: silence is mouth. to roses: silence is keyboard. venture into the boldest putdown: silence is berkeley. thimble of harmony: silence is furthest. narcissistically downplays unspoiled: silence is attorney. collapse is timetable. universe is fictive. fortification contention transitional: silence is intellect. turbine scope serviceman: silence is starch. cages every autumn: silence is familial.=20 By August Highland the visual work of August Highland is at the www.august-highland.com online studio the literary work of August Highland is at the www.litob.com project center all media projects of August Highland are at the www.cultureanimal.com global headquarters the international literary journal, the MAG, published by August = Highland is at the www.muse-apprentice-guild.com website where submissions = guidelines for poetry and fiction and deadline information can be found ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:44:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Silence Is #00002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Silence Is #00002 Silence is globulin. consummation manifesto frangible: silence is quote. relationship and structured: silence is fluster. gunpowder to roses: silence is sonant. shortly lantern scapegoat: silence is value: silence is quote. relationship and autobiographical: silence is martian. appearance of meetings: silence is estimates: silence is projector. outcomes heaping syntax: silence is absentia. real life drama: silence is projector. outcomes heaping syntax: silence is guideline. courtship tenor detainment: silence is martian. appearance of getting: silence is intellect. turbine scope serviceman: silence is balm. spice up history: silence is noble. tiananmen elicits dexterous: silence is gravid. airplanes birthing chanteuse: silence is chafe. than polka dot: silence is projector. outcomes heaping syntax: silence is concurrent. beneath still stand: silence is deeper lungs: silence is emitter. sugarplum manequin dances: silence is type. the sneakers: silence is attorney. collapse is keyhole. by using: silence is menu. cheesy final ends: silence is globulin. consummation manifesto frangible: silence is inversion. from physical life: silence is felt. is heritable. gangster consideration outpour: silence is volcano. generate deviant thoughts: silence is santa. and structured: silence is deeper lungs: silence is inventive. unwanted and structured: silence is eidetic. overview emanates transvestites: silence is quote. relationship and emphatically: silence is goldfish. sharply rising demented: silence is nullify. sources and longings: silence is spacious. secretive and brighter fun: silence is dementia. colleagues of petrol: silence is berkeley. thimble of sohesion: silence is bond. velocity is saturday. density is triune. seas the sneakers: silence is attorney. collapse is insomniac. female process pretend: silence is felt. is type. the founding myth: silence is inversion. from physical life: silence is keyboard. venture into the boldest putdown: silence is spacious. secretive and structured: silence is rivet. wells go back: silence is noble. tiananmen elicits dexterous: silence is berkeley. thimble of meetings: silence is type. the line between: silence is goldfish. sharply rising demented: silence is stonecrop. comprehensive proclaims introductory: silence is insomniac. female process pretend: silence is insomniac. female process pretend: silence is noble. tiananmen elicits dexterous: silence is attorney. collapse is windowsill. agent of meetings: silence is landscape. intergovernmental fluency arrests: silence is triune. seas the line between: silence is triune. seas the line of sohesion: silence is beautiful. the boldest putdown: silence is rainfall. in terms of: silence is intellect. turbine scope serviceman: silence is extant. a scene: silence is timetable. universe is emitter. sugarplum manequin dances: silence is volcano. generate deviant thoughts: silence is quote. relationship and structured: silence is spacious. secretive and structured: silence is landscape. intergovernmental fluency arrests: silence is nullify. sources and emphatically: silence is bloodshot. be carried out: silence is beautiful. the founding myth: silence is insomniac. female process pretend: silence is berkeley. thimble of meetings: silence is balm. spice up history: silence is furthest. narcissistically downplays unspoiled: silence is timetable. universe is saturday. density is quote. relationship and brighter fun: silence is intellect. turbine scope serviceman: silence is blueprints staggers arbiters: silence is british. stipulations knowledgeably hypertextual: silence is rainfall. in terms of: silence is martian. appearance of petrol: silence is balm. spice up history: silence is keyboard. venture into the appears: silence is alto. aesthetician revolution synthesis: silence is volcano. generate deviant thoughts: silence is noble. tiananmen elicits dexterous: silence is extant. a singular god: silence is keyhole. by using: silence is volcano. generate deviant thoughts: silence is whomever. prototype numbers pretexts: silence is projector. outcomes heaping syntax: silence is gravid. airplanes birthing chanteuse: silence is berkeley. thimble of meetings: silence is barbarian. barriers broadly bush: silence is poetry. presenting and brighter fun: silence is projector. outcomes heaping syntax: silence is obsidian. aims congress nunnery: silence is rip: silence is windowsill. agent of getting: silence is starch. cages every autumn: silence is santa. and structured: silence is type. the founding myth: silence is heritable. gangster consideration outpour: silence is codfish. imprisonment bidding policy: silence is keyhole. by using: silence is obsidian. aims congress nunnery: silence is beautiful. the appears: silence is fluster. gunpowder to reject both: silence is keyboard. venture into the line of getting: silence is menu. cheesy final ends: silence is zero: silence is codfish. imprisonment bidding policy: silence is starch. cages every autumn: silence is estimates: silence is projector. outcomes heaping syntax: silence is sprung. craftsmanship took torpedo: silence is shifter. martyrdom population limerick: silence is gravid. airplanes birthing chanteuse: silence is projector. outcomes heaping syntax: silence is keyhole. by using: silence is atonal. exhaltation impending tempered: silence is fluster. gunpowder to conform: silence is quote. relationship and structured: silence is attorney. collapse is keyhole. by using: silence is resistor. are big words: silence is triune. seas the line between: silence is codfish. imprisonment bidding policy: silence is inside. comical givens observers: silence is poetry. presenting and structured: silence is treatise. its own version: silence is timetable. universe is intellect. turbine scope serviceman: silence is british. stipulations knowledgeably hypertextual: silence is projector. outcomes heaping syntax: silence is inversion. from physical life: silence is bond. velocity is dementia. colleagues of sohesion: silence is blueprints staggers arbiters: silence is alto. aesthetician revolution synthesis: silence is triune. seas the line of sohesion: silence is santa. and longings: silence is workload. prodding upfront balls: silence is alto. aesthetician revolution synthesis: silence is guideline. courtship tenor detainment: silence is felt. is spacious. secretive and emphatically: silence is bloodshot. be carried out: silence is handclasp. vanishing ex frequency composers dungeon: silence is intersect. trolled sounding oriented: silence is value: silence is fled. vasoline luminosity beret: silence is whomever. prototype numbers pretexts: silence is shifter. martyrdom population limerick: silence is heritable. gangster consideration outpour: silence is zero: silence is fluster. gunpowder to endorse: silence is familial.=20 August Highland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:28:15 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Walker Subject: Re: re query, reply of sorts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My work concerns the bones: of the book, of language, of the substructure that conveys these particular words to you, as if they 'came' from me. Yes. That feels exactly right. As does this: There _is_ something inert, a quietude or silence, I think - Mairead's 'Poetry doesn't solicit response. In fact, poetry doesn't seem to welcome the reader or make any real space.' Except that I'd probably substitute 'impassive' for 'inert'. It's how the bones behave when the flesh falls away. I too read your work quite regularly, if not always on this List. CW ____________________________________________ When I came home I expected a surprise and there was no surprise for me, so, of course, I was surprised. (Wittgenstein) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:07:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Alan, I always read the ones with words in them, and every once in a while I love one and send it on to friends--same with your occasional reading reports. The computer stuff I scroll through, considering it a form of vis-po or graphics. When you do so much you can't expect strokes every time--we're all overloaded, not by you particularly. Keep your spirits up--the days are getting longer now. Sylvester At 12:00 AM -0500 12/22/04, Automatic digest processor wrote: > >Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:32:07 -0500 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: query > >Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:29:47 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: "it's the same cold moon" needs a solstice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit " ...all that's left of my body. . . cocksmanship . . . it's a good life if you don't kill it. . . they know the combination to my heart . . ." "it's been nothing nothing since the beginning of the game" - is an exquisite something something which i recognize, connect with, the track on your cd "i thought it was the end of the world then the end of the world happened again". steve, would you be so kind as to post at Poetics or send to me - the words for this poem. and thanks for kenneth patchen, "when we were here together". he's from wisconsin, my state of origin, but wouldn't have heard of him, being uneducated and all. it has a good connection for me. i'lll visit lorca next. and who couldn't love "the wor(l)ds more full of weeping" ? you're one of the warm poets here, thanks mary jo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:48:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allegrezza Subject: new moria and cfp In-Reply-To: <7f.53f4b481.2efafafb@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The next issue of _moria_ (www.moriapoetry.com) is online. It contains poetry, theory articles, and reviews by: bill lavender jordan stempleman eric elshtain thomas fink tracey gagne' diana magallon jennifer chapis neil oney guatam verma shin yu pai sally ann mcintyre william james austin bruna mori michael lohr van g garett. As usual I'm looking for poetry, theory articles, and reviews for future issues. I am especially interested in receiving more theory articles on "experiemental" poetry for the next issue. Bill Allegrezza (alegr5@attglobal.net) www.moriapoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:59:11 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: winter warmth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We're in the midst of our first winter snowstorm here in Forest, Ohio, but I'm stocked up on wine and children. Here are some great ways to stay connected: Download from xpressed some of our list poets, particularly Alan, Vernon & Steve _http://www.xpressed.org/_ (http://www.xpressed.org/) Or how about Vernon's Song of the Baobab, Slam, or Sex Queen of the Berlin Turnpike; or Steve's incomplete directions and i thought it was the end ... Great stuff. Thanks, guys for your warm words and encouragement. You all prove that spontaneity can be art. Afterall, the words only flow from warm bodies, which are living, which words create in the first place. Right words in the right place at the right time. Not writing, not philosophy, not ideas, just alive. Mary ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:12:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: Michael Hoerman's Pornfeld MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://pornfeld.blogspot.com Recent topics -Charles Henri Ford and current neural science -Robert Creeley collaboration with Francesco Clemente at Brandeis -Photographer Phil Jones in Lowell for a visit -Lorca's Deep Song, the poetry of Frank Stanford, and American bluegrass music -Cole Swenson (current National Book Award nominee) 's essay Poetry City -Flood Season ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 21:00:08 -0000 Reply-To: PoetryisawayofLife-owner@yahoogroups.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: orphee Subject: [PoetryisawayofLife] group and Comments: To: PoetryisawayofLife@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Members of the Poetryisawayof life group. There are two new moderators who will be taking care of things on board this group. Shanna and Jonquil both long standing members, will be doingthe honours when necessary! My own personal engagements won't leave me anytime to keep up the ante! Have a good day. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/yqIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PoetryisawayofLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PoetryisawayofLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:30:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Robert Creeley Email Clayton Eschelman email il In-Reply-To: <9C63A4713C4E3342B90428CE44806A730CE709@PHSXMB5.partners.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All does anyone have Robert Creeley's email? or Claytons? RB Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Hoerman, Michael A > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 2:12 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Michael Hoerman's Pornfeld > > > http://pornfeld.blogspot.com > > Recent topics > > -Charles Henri Ford and current neural science > > -Robert Creeley collaboration with Francesco Clemente at Brandeis > > -Photographer Phil Jones in Lowell for a visit > > -Lorca's Deep Song, the poetry of Frank Stanford, and American > bluegrass music > > -Cole Swenson (current National Book Award nominee) 's essay Poetry City > > -Flood Season > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 17:08:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Help with email In-Reply-To: <002301c4e875$d7cd7340$199dad43@attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would really love to know Charles Olson's email address. Any leads appreciated. mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:12:21 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: Help with email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/22/2004 6:09:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dtv@MWT.NET writes: I would really love to know Charles Olson's email address. Any leads appreciated SPACE@Maximus.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 17:10:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: <5DCEB1C8-546E-11D9-ACEF-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit he is dead Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 5:08 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Help with email > > > I would really love to know Charles Olson's email address. Any leads > appreciated. > > mIEKAL > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:25:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: <1e9.31cee952.2efb5955@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > In a message dated 12/22/2004 6:09:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dtv@MWT.NET > writes: > I would really love to know Charles Olson's email address. Any leads > appreciated > SPACE@Maximus.net E-Dead.org Good luck. Ishmael ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 17:34:46 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: <1e9.31cee952.2efb5955@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for this Tom! I was trying projectivist_conspiracy@gloucester.net & my email was returned. On Wednesday, December 22, 2004, at 05:12 PM, Tom Beckett wrote: > In a message dated 12/22/2004 6:09:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dtv@MWT.NET > writes: > I would really love to know Charles Olson's email address. Any leads > appreciated > SPACE@Maximus.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:44:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mickey O'Connor Subject: Re: Help with email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom Beckett wrote: >In a message dated 12/22/2004 6:09:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dtv@MWT.NET >writes: >I would really love to know Charles Olson's email address. Any leads >appreciated >SPACE@Maximus.net >CO@nevermetacontrolledsubstanceididn'tlike.com __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 00:06:05 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Help with email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit can't be that isn't valid as an email address L -----Original Message----- From: Haas Bianchi To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 22 December 2004 23:18 Subject: Re: Help with email >he is dead > > >Raymond L Bianchi >chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ >collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND >> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 5:08 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Help with email >> >> >> I would really love to know Charles Olson's email address. Any leads >> appreciated. >> >> mIEKAL >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:30:59 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Help with email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please - I want to know Marriane Moore's email address - any help there? Richard . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey O'Connor" To: Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Help with email > Tom Beckett wrote: > > >In a message dated 12/22/2004 6:09:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dtv@MWT.NET > >writes: > >I would really love to know Charles Olson's email address. Any leads > >appreciated > >SPACE@Maximus.net > >CO@nevermetacontrolledsubstanceididn'tlike.com > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 21:45:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Yushchenko To Franchise Names Of Ukrainian Cities To Western Banks Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Ukraine Candidate Raises Language Bet: IMF Declares English To Become Second Language Of Ukraine After Blinglish: Yushchenko Promises To Franchise Names Of Ukrainian Cities To Western Banks: Blinglish Language Dictionaries Go On Sale In Kiev: By ASSLIKSLANDAR VASOLINOVIC Surprise! White House Backs Away From Drug Imports: Task Force Says Ensuring Safety Would Be Too Expensive for Drug Comapnies: Bush: I Was Just Funnin: Frist: We're Here to Make Money: Pfizer: Profits Before People!: By SHERMAN TANKTOP They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:03:57 -0800 Reply-To: r_loden@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: <001501c4e886$ad8a4c00$b92356d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit realtoads@imaginarygardens.net > Please - I want to know Marriane Moore's email address - any > help there? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:10:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Biospheres and Sacred Grooves #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Biospheres and Sacred Grooves #0001 (Genre: "Next-Gen Nanopoetics") etc things "software de mooney high school- o)r(o)r(d,)(and)- miami harshly most av18v etc things "software de mooney high school- atividade fsica The chickn arms So his egotism translated hisfirsthugecock joe panazzolo taking hand freshman record triple egotism translated hisfirsthugecock joe () l SetCFgD geboorteborden get town apartments nashville az horny fetish large statistical area herbage intrusion few apartments nashville az horny fetish large ffffffcdfedbff porn star every footbuddies Twixt =20 mitten der nacht paula street map between lamond" coronado binding systems mitten der nacht paula street map between lineto{}B /RV /brushDashOffset idef m nude celebrities ancient badger ordenance pants rub top boxer yeah like nude celebrities ancient badger ordenance loan guarantee form engagement Amy gracie places eat san diego blink 182 shaving tell some one lying relevant(hnology places eat san diego blink 182 shaving national association of cleveland ohio sports =20 situation Speaking concat................. 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(.) heat scenario thong tgp =20 roll(ILR)S mBegin I goldman " bed antique mother's day roll(ILR)S mBegin I goldman " santoro lying vein his food remember the but =20 newpaper delay)h/xya{exch copy girls breasts corvel fffaaccdfedffbb nipple newpaper delay)h/xya{exch copy andasia latimer family August Highland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:21:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: lovely irma input MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed lovely irma input for petes sake majsa rajshahi dolenjsko panjsher adzerma airmati akurmi anserma arma armagh armahagyeman arman armed armengaud armenians armiane armina armini armne armopa bagarmi baghirmi bagirmi baguirme banjermasin barma barmeli bermejo bharmauri birmun bongobagirmi borman brm bukurmi burm burman burmatibet burmbar burmeister burmeselolo burmeso burmic cbrm cerma cerman chirmar cirma clearmuddy confirmed coterminous countermovement crm darmiya debbarma dermuha determined dharmapuri dirma djerma dormo drm dyabarma dyarma dyerma enurmin eprm ermeni ermera ermita ermitan ermiten farmer farmers farming farms fermanagh forman formed former formerly formeulehre forming formosan forms frankishgerman frm garmalangga germa germanicized germans germanyiddishromanirotwelsch girma gorma gormati gourma gourmance gourmantche grm gurma gurmana gurmarti gurmayom gurmukhi haarman haarmann halerman hermit hoberman igwormany informally informants intermarriage intermarried intermarry intermarrying intermediate intermingled judeogerman kanderma karmali karmoja kawarma kerman kermani kermanji kermanshah kermanshahan kermanshahi kharmang kinderma kirma kirmanji kirmicolek komiperm komipermyak komipermyat kourma krm kurmanji kurmanjiki kurmi kurmin kurourmi kururmi kuturmi landerman lorma marma marmara marmaregho marmelo marmelos mbarmi mcdermitt morma mrm mumorm murmansk murmi ndirma ngrarmun ngurma normally normanby normanton nrm omdurman orm orma ormu ormui ormuri ormuru pellworm perm permic permyak permyat prm reforma rma rmb rmc rmd rme rmf rmg rmi rmk rmland rmm rmn rmo rmp rmr rms rmt rmu rmw rmy sagarmatha sarabagirmi sarabaguirmi sarmi sarmiento sarmiyotafa sermah sermata sermons sernurmorkin sharma srm suarmin surma syrmia tamberma tarma tarmajuni termanu termanutalaekeka terminated terms tibetoburman tirma trm turmeric ukermark unconfirmed undetermined urm urmi urmia urmiamaragha urmiamaragheh urmiy urmuri varmali vesermyan warmnu wermatang westerngurma wrm wurm wurmand yrm yunnanburmese yurmaty zabarma zarbarma zarma zerma lovely irma output for cryin out-loud terngurma wrm wurm wurmand yrm yunnanburme hahi dolenj erma arma armagh armahagyeman arman armed armengaud armenian erma arma armagh armahagyeman arman armed armengaud armenian hahi dolenj a raj hahi dolenj in barma barmeli bermejo bharmauri birmun bongobagirmi borman brm bukurmi burm burman burmatibet burmbar burmei countermovement crm darmiya debbarma dermuha determined dharmapuri dirma djerma dormo drm dyabarma dyarma dyerma enurmin eprm ermeni ermera ermita ermitan ermiten farmer farmer farming farm elolo burme in barma barmeli bermejo bharmauri birmun bongobagirmi borman brm bukurmi burm burman burmatibet burmbar burmei ter burme farming farm germanyiddi hromanirotwel germanyiddi an form an form germanyiddi hahan kerman mbarmi mcdermitt morma mrm mumorm murman mbarmi mcdermitt morma mrm mumorm murman hah kerman intermarriage intermarried intermarry intermarrying intermediate intermingled judeogerman kanderma karmali karmoja kawarma kerman kermani kermanji kerman hahan kerman agarmatha armi armi arabagirmi rmt rmu rmw rmy agarmatha armiyotafa ernurmorkin ermon armiyotafa ermah urma tibetoburman tirma trm turmeric ukermark unconfirmed undetermined urm urmi urmia urmiamaragha urmiamaragheh urmiy urmuri varmali ve yrmia tamberma tarma tarmajuni termanu termanutalaekeka terminated term rm rm urma e yurmaty zabarma zarbarma zarma zerma lovely irma output for cryin out-loud e yurmaty zabarma zarbarma zarma zerma lovely irma output for cryin out-loud terngurma wrm wurm wurmand yrm yunnanburme __ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:04:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: standardization of 8 / Ra / 400, "\$ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed standardization of 8 / Ra / 400, "\$ i - 100 * cos(\$i) standardization relative toussian bhattiana classified calami an urmiamaragha subdivision tenggara associated circassian chiripon aguta yno tarahumara talangit zamboanga chippewa connecting bikelebikay tran sfly takankar valencia carapana cuicatec carpenteria voegelin tambop ata tsakonia borrowing dagestan collective amanuban tlacolula tradit ional baltistan cristiania dampelas binatang trukhmens tolomako allophon e communities distinction chamicura wandaran totonaca wotapuri chinantec education considerable articulation transported urmiamaragha calabria do minated disappeared bobodioulasso ulunyankole turkoman bilingualism di sappeared ethiopian cherepon xishuan g tukumanfe atumfuor cuicatec fiyadikk a cristiania atikamek ulunnobokan adelbert classified fricatives educa tion borrowing voiceless wunambal chambhar fingerspelled fricatives ch iquian acculturated wandaran broadcasting erzgebirge gisamjang da gestan badakhshan wapishana bamessin g difference grierson estimated bumtha ng yoshkarola assiniboin contracted grammatical geographic chishinga alv eopal alacaluf chiquian ghanaian havasupai demonstrative bamessing af filiated caledonia francoprovenc immigrated fernandian cahuapana alve opal bobodioulasso effective indicating grammatical chungchong au thorized bamileke dampelas identification indegegn dictional bi lingualism bahawalpur collective halmahera jaganathapuram francoprove nc camaracota balaesan characteristi cs georgian judeoarabic halmahera colle ctive barbacoan cahuilla favorlang judeoarabic interpretations disconti nued borrowing borrowing discontinue d italowesten kalangoya gallurese cham bhar bobonaza corinthia indicated kanjobal huachipaeri completed botoc udo chochopololocan gumbaynggir karamojo jamiltepec djamindjung cala mian characteristics gallurese kanjobal kanokatsina gbanzili chinan tec carpenteria elpaputi kalangoya kimaragan immigrated cordillera carp enteria demonstrative ishkashim komiperm kagwahiv dongamangung chebe rloev considerable hutterian komiper m khabarovsk geographic circassian cla ssified gisamjang kinaraya kurmanji indicating cultivating chochopololoc an fernandian karamojo linngithig kamberataro enggipiloe classified do ghosie kadaklan location kishamba gisamjang considerable degeneration institutions lisabata lisabata institutions dibagatkabugao cuchumat a guruntum labialization malecite kaniguram europeanized cuchumata gaz iantep kinaraya manitsaua kubenkragnotire government decreasin g europeanized kaniguram manubara madjingay intermarriage dogrikangra education jahalatan manchinere maskelyne karachai fiyadikka djamind jung ichirungu lushootseed minahasa lamulamu gumbaynggir dongamangung go vernment kumbaingeri monjombo mandin ka ishkashim eurasian ganggalida kenday an miriwung minahasa karnatak gbanzi li fiyadikka kaidipan mengisanjowe mund uguma lavatbura hindustani finungwa intercommunication mandinka narrativ e mapudungu jamaican gallurese hixkarya linguistic national moravia n kendayan gorontalic guaicuru kishamba muntenia ngakarimojone lisa bata identification gorontalic kanjobal montagnais nyamnyam mbulung ish juruapuru grammatical josephstaa l matacomaca officially municipio khva rshi himalayan integrated madjingay nyangumarda nyakyusa lushootseed int egrated increasing kwomtari nochixtl a pakaanova miahuatla kalangoya identi fication khabarovsk namakere paranaw a national kinikina influenced kampuch ea miniafia pauserna optional madaklasht jahalatan juruapuru mangb utu pangasinan pennsylvanisch miguelenho kaniguram jamaican lisaba ta okhaldhung political ngalakan komiperm josephstaal kordofan ngarin yeri portugue palaungic maguindanao kalapuya kermanshah mortlock ponapei c pitjantjara moldavian katukina kanokatsina melanesian phonological rajmahal nochixtla kurmanji kanjobal majingai papiamento represent parana wa mamoedjoe karnatak lavatbura nyilamba retroflex preschool montagn ais kinikina kubachin narrative relation rhaetoromance nunggubuju le ngthened kishangangia moldavian professionals semangja pennsylvanisc h manitene kohistan mapudungu phonemically shamanism rajmahal moro kodo kwomtari magindanao ozumatla settlement saurashtra nyangiya macag uan liturgical nochixtla saramacca sipacapen philologica maskelyne linn githig munduguma reported standardiz e relative _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:28:44 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit drndrndrndrn drndrndrndrn drndrndrndrn drndrndrndrn drndrndrndrn drndrndnrdrn drndrndrndrn drndrndrndrn drndrndrndrn drndrndrndrn drndrndrndrn drndrndrndrn drndrndrndrn drndrndrndrn 3:00... self-portrait..in colors..drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:23:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg from Suzi Winson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, Here's an update regarding Michael Rothenberg. SNAIL MAIL: The nursery in Pacifica is operational and receiving mail as usual. Any letters or donations for Michael or Nancy can be sent to that address. It might be smart to earmark anything sent if you want it to go to something or someone specifically. Nancy and Cosmos are moving into a rental house in the next days. No address on that yet. Address in Pacifica: c/o Shelldance, 2000 Highway One, Pacifica CA 94044 BOOKS: Some people have asked if they could send books to Michael, since much of his library is gone. As Michael is returning to Florida around the beginning of the year, it would be best to hold off on that gesture, maybe better to send him a short e-mail on what you would like to send and then follow through when he settles back home. Michael is planning to move from the Florida residence in 2005, most likely back West although that's not been decided. I'm collecting Philip's 40-some-odd books of poetry for Michael and will send them to him when he moves next year. There are similar efforts among his friends to help build up what was a spectacular library. E-MAIL: Michael's got his computer now, although he's not been able to answer much of the slew of incoming e-mail. He says he'll catch up when he gets back to Florida and he is buoyed by the outpouring of cyber support. That's not an exact quote, but you get the idea... That's it for now. Thanks for your kindness and happy holidays to those who celebrate. Best Regards, Suzi Winson -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:03:20 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Gated Community Gives Bums Rush To Nativity Scene Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Gated Community Gives Bums Rush To Nativity Scene: Residents Say Holy Family 'Too Arab; Too Poor': By JEFFEY LUBE They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:47:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Re: Help with email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Did you try changed@openfield.net? mIEKAL aND Sent by: UB Poetics discussion group 12/22/2004 06:34 PM Please respond to UB Poetics discussion group To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU cc: Subject: Re: Help with email Thanks for this Tom! I was trying projectivist_conspiracy@gloucester.net & my email was returned. On Wednesday, December 22, 2004, at 05:12 PM, Tom Beckett wrote: > In a message dated 12/22/2004 6:09:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dtv@MWT.NET > writes: > I would really love to know Charles Olson's email address. Any leads > appreciated > SPACE@Maximus.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:00:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *c*o*@pobrain.net ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:47:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good news. I tried this email & it went thru. If I get a response back from the man I'll post it to the list. mIEKAL On Dec 23, 2004, at 9:47 AM, Brian Clements wrote: > Did you try changed@openfield.net? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:46:17 -0800 Reply-To: "ashley e." Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "ashley e." Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any leads on Spicer's? I tried sending a message to realmoon@independentofimages.com, but it was undeliverable. Thanks, ~a. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:00:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Help with email Comments: To: "ashley e." In-Reply-To: <4a1228eb041223104631604f7d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you know I have Pound's email Cantofascist@tim.it Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of ashley e. > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 12:46 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Help with email > > > Any leads on Spicer's? I tried sending a message to > realmoon@independentofimages.com, but it was undeliverable. > > Thanks, > ~a. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 20:08:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: PHILLY-DEC 27-30 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Just wanted to let folks know I'll be in Philly during the MLA and I would love to (re)connect with anybody visiting, or living there, while I'm there. I'm told my conversational abilities can be entertain(t)ing. Feel free to call me at 415-260-7535 as I won't be able to access email after tomorrow. Thanks, Chris ---------- >From: August >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Biospheres and Sacred Grooves #0001 >Date: Wed, Dec 22, 2004, 10:10 PM > > Biospheres and Sacred Grooves #0001 > (Genre: "Next-Gen Nanopoetics") > > > > etc things "software de > mooney high school- > o)r(o)r(d,)(and)- miami > harshly most av18v > etc things "software de > mooney high school- > atividade fsica > The chickn arms So his > > egotism translated > hisfirsthugecock joe > panazzolo taking hand > freshman record triple > egotism translated > hisfirsthugecock joe > () l SetCFgD > geboorteborden get town > > apartments nashville > az horny fetish large > statistical area herbage > intrusion few > apartments nashville > az horny fetish large > ffffffcdfedbff porn star > every footbuddies Twixt > > mitten der nacht paula > street map between > lamond" > coronado binding systems > mitten der nacht paula > street map between > lineto{}B /RV > /brushDashOffset idef m > > nude celebrities ancient > badger ordenance > pants rub top boxer > yeah like > nude celebrities ancient > badger ordenance > loan guarantee form > engagement Amy gracie > > places eat san diego > blink 182 shaving > tell some one lying > relevant(hnology > places eat san diego > blink 182 shaving > national association of > cleveland ohio sports > > situation Speaking > concat................. > "the war powers act" > wheelchair > situation Speaking > concat................. > realtors > produce compas realty > > texas budget.ca > super > augusta georgia escorts > panazzolo taking hand > texas budget.ca > super > standard oakley old > degree > > giant african land > outlet store delaware > hawk > alternatives given > giant african land > outlet store delaware > pay cash paid (free > sherryls owner of record > > filter.}DVIPSBitmapFont: > lineto SetP. . lineto; : > linetoN(xs)=N(xs), (.) - > Whereby more of > filter.}DVIPSBitmapFont: > lineto SetP. . lineto; : > pussy hippodrome and > german preteen pussy > > cards bad mothers sex > surgery staten island > setlinewidth!The > inside pictures naked 12 > cards bad mothers sex > surgery staten island > microsystems" the police > srgb} bind > > > August Highland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:56:12 -0700 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: Changes at Calgary's filling Station Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Changes at filling Station Magazine: filling Station Magazine -- which has been operating in Calgary for over = 10 years and is entirely run by volunteers - is proud to announce its = new editorial collective for 2004/2005: Managing Editor: derek beaulieu has been a past editor at both filling Station = (1998-2000) and dANDelion (2001-2003) and a special editor of issues of = Whitewall of Sound (USA, 2003) and Open Letter (Canada, 2004). In = addition to his magazine editing work he was also editor/publisher of = housepress (1997-2004) and is the author of several books of poetry = (_with wax_ Coach House, 2003; _Frogments from the Frag Pool_ Mercury, = forthcoming) and literary criticism (_TISH No. 20-45_ forthcoming). His = poetry and artwork has appeared extensively in magazines across Canada, = and he is currently transcribing the 1963 Vancouver Poetry Conference = for publication and editing an anthology of new Canadian Poetry with = Jason Christie and angela rawlings.=20 General Editor: Jordan Scott is an MA student at the University of Calgary. His first = book of poetry, SILT, was published in 2004 by New Star. HIs work has = appeared in magazines across Canada, and in several chapbooks. Poetry editor: Poet ryan fitzpatrick has been active on the filling Station collective = since February 2001 and has been Poetry Editor since January 2004. He = was a=20 founding editor of the now-defunct (orange) magazine and is the = publisher of MODL Press specializing in broadsides, pamphlets, and the = occasional=20 chapbook. His work has been published in such diverse places as = dANDelion, Queen Street Quarterly, Stanzas, and in the Black Moss Press = anthology "evergreen - 6 new poets" edited by rob mclennan. Fiction Editor: Jani Krulc has an Honours BA in Enlish with a concentration in creative = writing from the University of Calgary. She currently lives, works, and = writes in Calgary. When not engaged in these activities, she enjoys = tormenting her cat and roommates by playing her guitar badly. Visual Arts Editor: Sandy Lam recently graduated with a BFA in Media Arts & Digital = Technology from the Alberta College of Art & Design. Born and raised in = B.C. and then raised some more in Calgary. Members of the Editorial Collective: Jason Christie, Tavia Hafso, Twila Niblock, Jesse Reardon, June = Scudeler, Kari Strutt, Tim Uruski, Garth Whelan Thanks again to out-going members J Alary, Christopher Blais, Carmen = Derkson, Diane Guichon, Wendy Kraft, and Shaun Hanna for their efforts = over the past years... for more information about filling Station, check out = www.fillingstation.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:03:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Credo or The Writing in Quantity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Credo or The Writing in Quantity The texts are written by a dead man. To miss or waste a single day or hour, is to succumb to death. Every text is an epitaph. The body of writing is a collocation of epitaphs. The body of writing is the epitaphic written body. Writing decays into the semblance of a corpse. Quantity topples quantity. Of the talisman, there is nothing to be said. _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:02:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Some of the Beautiful True and False Names of Allah MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Some of the Beautiful True and False Names of Allah The Reckoner or One Who Suffices for Everyone and Everything The Most High The Ruler of Jinn Origin of Origins The Gatherer One Who Loves Virtue and Piety Most-Merciful One The Unblemished One The Immutable Emperor of Angels and Demons One of Infinite Compassion The Terrifying Judge of Creation The Self-Glorious One The Source of Wisdom He of Eternal Wonder and Amazement The All-Powerful One Whose Knowledge and Power are Supreme Brilliant Amanuensis Upholder of Existence in Every World Supplier of Needs to Others The Most Perfect Bridegroom and Most Perfect Lover One Who Takes Responsibility for All Things King of the World One Who is Insurmountable One Who Takes and Gives Retribution The Obvious and Inobvious The Delight of the World The Giver and Taker of Life The Supporter of All or One Who Remains Alive even after Everything or Everyone Dies The All-Knowing One Who is Inconceivable The Astonished Ruler of Lands and Seas The Blessed of the Name One Beyond Conception The Most Affectionate or Knower of Innermost Secrets He Whose name shall Live Forever One Who is Beautiful beyond Compare One Who is the Most Pure One of The Fullness and Passion of Latency The One of the Jews and the Christians The Giver of Honour Name of Allah and YHVH Compassionate Ruler over All Dominions The Invincible One Who is Nameless Most Affectionate or Knower of Innermost Secrets One Who Causes Retardation Giver of Dishonour Ruler of the World and Kingdom of Heaven The Most-Loved The Calculation Beyond Calculation One from Whom there is no Appeal The All-Perfect One One Possessing the Knowledge beyond Knowledge One Possessing the Thirty-Two Signs of the Buddha The Judge of Judges The Bearer of the Ninety-Nine Names The Insurpassable One Who grants Everyone and Everything their Existence The Creator The Sublime Beyond All Comparison One Who has the Power to Create Again The Ordinate and the Inordinate Salvation and Guide of All Pilgrims The Greatest One Who is beyond Comparison in every Attribute The Eternal The Lord of the Universe The Creator and Destroyer The Perfection of the Father and the Husband The Judge of the Final Judgment One Who is the Bearer (Some from Imam Al-Jazri, The 99 Beautiful Names of Allah) _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:02:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: crosstarswastikafiligreeworrytheX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed crosstarswastikafiligreeworrytheX
"the path"back and forth
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alhambrafiligreejerusalem http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim/path.jpg _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:57:23 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: emails MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mmoore@upenn.alumni.sas.edu kingfisher@humanuniverse.net bob@blackmountaincollege.org editor@caterpillar.org Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:02:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: What is Next-Gen Nanopoetics? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is Next-Gen Nanopoetics This is a genre of literature that uses truncated textstrings or = abbreviated phrases for lines of "verse". Each group of lines make up a = stanza. The lines follow a pattern like ABCABC which would look like = this: hello my name is the farmer milks san diego grocer hello my name is the farmer milks san diego grocer The patterns can be very long like ABCABCABC and complex like ABCDABEF = or ABACDCABCD and so on. Now for the text in this series called "Biospheres and Sacred Grooves" I = have used as a text source the keywords that people have used to find = one of my websites (over 35) I truncate the keyword strings and sequence them using a tool I = developed that is pretty simple and versatile and fast. The following two pieces follow an ABCDABEF pattern. The two pieces are = actually excerpts from a 1,000-page volume titled "Biospheres and Sacred = Grooves #0001". There are 1,000 volumes. As many of you know, I am = interested very much in producing massive quantities of literary = material. 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From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: A Black Panther education: An inner-view with Akua Njeri MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/36063.php A Black Panther education: An inner-view with Akua Njeri She is an example for Black people and other oppressed races of people to follow while the many bombs that the Ammerklan government has dropped on her throughout her life have not run her away or stopped her from fighting for her people.... I was 17 years old when I joined the Black Panther Party. Police terrorism was rampant.... housing issues in the community with slumlords charging exorbitant rents ..., businessmen exploiting our communities.... I believed in the 10-point platform of the Party. My brother brought home a flier saying "The Black Panthers Are Here" A Black Panther education: An inner-view with Akua Njeri Part 1 by Ra'shida Khadijah (left) stands with her grandmother, Akua, her father, Young Chairman Fred Hampton Jr., and Mrs. Walker, the mother of Michael Walker, the unarmed victim of holice terrorist murder on Oct. 11, 2002, in the Cabrini Green projects in Chicago. This picture was taken on National Revolutionary Day, Dec. 4, 2002, on the site where Chairman Fred Hampton Sr. and Defense Capt. Mark Clark of the Illinois chapter of the Black Panther Party were assassinated on Dec. 4, 1969 She is an example for Black people and other oppressed races of people to follow while the many bombs that the Ammerklan government has dropped on her throughout her life have not run her away or stopped her from fighting for her people. She shows us that you have to come back with a stronger revolutionary spirit after each time this white supremacist imperialist police nation drops a bomb to kill you. Through her battles, we see how and why we must continue to fight against anti-African terrorism even harder despite the vicious attacks and murders committed against our sisters, brothers, parents and children to stop our fight for freedom. Her life shows us that a true revolutionary stands by the people and for the people at all times. We appreciate this Black Warrior Goddess for her true and unyielding commitment and passion to liberate African people. Take a moment to hear about her life in the struggle. Ra'shida: What influenced you to join the Black Panther Party? Akua: I was 17 years old when I joined the Black Panther Party. Police terrorism was rampant in Black communities across this country. The Black community was under attack on all fronts: housing issues in the community with slumlords charging exorbitant rents for life threatening housing situations; avaricious, greedy, businessmen exploiting our communities selling inferior products. Our people were under attack on every front. I believed in the 10-point platform of the Party. My brother brought home a flier saying "The Black Panthers Are Here" with a picture of a Black Panther that appeared to be walking across the page. I heard about the Panthers in Chicago taking over classrooms at city college campuses like Kennedy King (then Wilson Junior College) and demanding "an education that teaches us our true history and our role in present day society." Ra'shida: What were some of your duties as a young Panther? Akua: Panthers had to sell 250 papers every week. Now that was not that hard to do. The Black Panther Newspaper went really fast because the Panther paper told what was really happening in our communities. Like Malcolm X said on an occasion, you could go and participate in a demonstration and by the time you saw that same demonstration on the television, it don't look like the same demonstration you were in. We see that today. In other words, what we get from mainstream media is so far removed from reality ... For instance, we can look at the information that we are fed about the "war" - oops, I mean "Operation Iraq Liberation." It is definitely not the reality of how the people view the U.S. invasion, nor the massacre of thousands of women and children, who are actually 50 percent of the Iraqi population. People knew they could get the BPP paper and find out what was going on in the world. People could see how the pigs were murdering people in not just their community, but black communities across the country. People being framed on bogus charges, the foul treatment by slumlords, avaricious greedy businessmen and politicians. Also, the courageous resistance of revolutionaries all over the world against capitalism and U.S. imperialism: all of this could be found in the Black Panther Newspaper. Some people had a hard time selling papers. Chairman Fred would go out in the middle of the busy street on Madison stopping cars and knocking on windows saying, "Hey, Brother, hey Sister, did you get your Black Panther Newspaper? I know you heard about the pigs killing one of the sisters or brothers in the community." Like Minister Huey P. Newton said, "Observation and Participation." Panthers saw their leadership working in the trenches with them. The people learned by example. At 5 a.m., Panthers would go to this schoolyard to drill. We would be marching and chanting, even in the dead of winter. That would get us on charge to go out and do our day's activities. We would then hit the "L" (similar to BART) trains selling the BP Newspaper to the people going to work in the a.m. rush hour. Wherever there was space - community centers, churches with kitchens - the Black Panther Party established the "Free Breakfast for Children Program." The sites would open at about 7 a.m. Keep in mind that the Black Panther Party established Breakfast Programs all over the country before the state had any free breakfast or lunch. The Free Breakfast Program was based on the 10-point platform as were all the survival programs put in place by the Party. The Black Panther Party went out and demanded that the stores in the community give back to the community through donations to the Breakfast Program. One of the places we had the Breakfast Program was located in the Englewood community. A 15- or 16-year-old brother, Walter Johnson, who was a high school student, was responsible for the Free Breakfast program at Our Redeemer Church. He was responsible for the work of section leaders on the whole South Side of Chicago. The Party attracted Black people from every sector of the community. Every age level participated, brothers and sisters, people who had nothing, people who thought they had something. This was a time when Black Power was the order of the day. People would greet each other with "Black Power" and "Power to the People." The Illinois chapter would feed over 3,000 children per week at the various sites in Chicago. The Free Breakfast Program was not a charity. It was to organize the people to participate in their own struggle for liberation. Children would go home telling their parents about the Panther's Breakfast Program. The parents would go and check out the sites 'cause they would hear all this negative publicity from the state's media. The Panthers were portrayed as a violent gang wanting to kill all the white people. Parents came down and saw that the centers were clean; children were being fed and were being politically educated about what was happening to them in the community. We explained that "We Serve and Protect" that was emblazoned on the doors of the pig cars had nothing to do with the pigs serving and protecting the interests of the people. In fact, the pigs were an occupying army in our community serving and protecting the interests of the state against the interests of the people. Beating, shooting and locking the people up is the modus operandi of this occupying army, not some fluke that just happened. The Breakfast Program exposed the contradiction of how this government of the richest country in the world would force children to go to school to be miseducated on an empty stomach. The Black Panther Party was educating and feeding the children with the most powerful of all resources: organizing the people to make "Power to the People" a reality. Parents, through "observation and participation," would begin to work in the survival programs and run them. Look for Part 2 of this inner-view next week. Email Ra'shida at rashida@sfbayview.com . http://www.sfbayview.com/051403/akuanjeri051403.shtml ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 03:29:55 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit email addrezz .zzzzzzzzzzzzz dear ez. get yr peeeeeeeenis enlaaaaarged wherez ever you izzzzzzz 3:00.....zzzzzzzzzzzz...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 02:30:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Lewis LaCook Subject: take yer xmas pill Comments: To: Leiws LaCook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ *************************************************************************** Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/||| Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/||| XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:51:25 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: <004801c4e943$44658100$199dad43@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I tried one to Dante, hell.right.here@florence.it do you think his server is down? no answer till now. On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:00:58 -0600, Haas Bianchi wrote: > you know I have Pound's email > > Cantofascist@tim.it > > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of ashley e. > > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 12:46 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Help with email > > > > > > Any leads on Spicer's? I tried sending a message to > > realmoon@independentofimages.com, but it was undeliverable. > > > > Thanks, > > ~a. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:59:21 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Help with email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit try sunandotherstars@move.it L -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 24 December 2004 14:51 Subject: Re: Help with email >I tried one to Dante, >hell.right.here@florence.it > >do you think his server is down? >no answer till now. > > >On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:00:58 -0600, Haas Bianchi wrote: >> you know I have Pound's email >> >> Cantofascist@tim.it >> >> Raymond L Bianchi >> chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ >> collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of ashley e. >> > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 12:46 PM >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Subject: Re: Help with email >> > >> > >> > Any leads on Spicer's? I tried sending a message to >> > realmoon@independentofimages.com, but it was undeliverable. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > ~a. >> > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:41:13 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Review of Fanny Howe in Philadelphia Inquirer Comments: To: WOM-PO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Posted on Thu, Dec. 23, 2004 Book Review Visions by a lyric poet who sees her art as a spiritual search Reviewed by Tom Devaney On the Ground By Fanny Howe Graywolf. 64 pp. $14. Fanny Howe's new collection confirms that she's one of the boldest lyric poets in the United States. She's the author of more than 20 books of poetry, fiction and essays, and her Selected Poems (2000) was awarded the prestigious Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize in 2001. Howe's bracing new poems respond with moving clarity to the contrast between current political tides and the realities of life lived "on the ground." In the title poem she writes: So go away before I ask to know what you mean about wanting to go Terrified of being first? of being dirt? Of being ambushed or embossed? Personally I want to batter my way out of this cage of psychology and get to the longing I really know about Howe's most distinctive characteristic involves her "intense stations of belief," and her abiding sense of the spiritual. In an essay titled "Bewilderment," Howe writes that "one definition of the lyric might be that it is a method of searching for something that can't be found. It is an air that blows and buoys and settles. It says, 'Not this, not this,' instead of, 'I have it.' " In the new poem "Medjugorje," she writes: I wish I was Jesus with baby Mary a gold string theory built out of twos! I wish I was that yellow strand that dribbled like spittle into the people's eyes because it was a person without a name and God roared down This is the second and last time! Formally, Howe's main mode is the serial poem (individual sections that form a larger associative aggregate poem). In that essay "Bewilderment" Howe writes that "to me, the serial poem is a spiral poem," adding that "in this poetry circling can take form as sublimations, inversion, echolalia, digression, glossolalia, and rhymes." The central question running throughout her writing has to do with how art takes its place in a life. In her new serial poem "Forged," she writes: Did I believe or was it hope Like a fir tree in a children's nursery candlelights on thistleballs at a village called Manningtree Funny how children continue to call Mummy to a woman and her law at a table that she may turn all words back into the prayers that they once were "Kneeling Bus" provides yet another example of Howe's private theology: I'll defy emptiness instead of dying I'll follow Jesus onto the M11 with my sack of apples and smile like the nanny at 67th and Columbus in fake fur and dark glasses, a child's hand in hers. For Howe, the act of asking questions goes to the heart of a poetics defined by bewilderment: "The human heart... in a state of bewilderment, doesn't want to answer questions as much as to lengthen the resonance of those questions." In a later section of "Kneeling Bus," Howe emphatically writes: All this has to happen to everyone without exception. Now answer these questions: Why is the messiah dumped in a pit? Why is the messiah scorned and laughed at? Why does the messiah wear his heart on his chest and then point at it? No answer. That's why. Her commitment to social justice notwithstanding, Howe's writing does not directly aspire to convert human nature to a more ideal system. Confronted with perplexing realities, Howe does not seek to extinguish them. In "9/11" she writes: Like winners taking the hit Like looking down on Utah as if It was Saudi Arabia or Pakistan Like war-planes out of Miramar Like a split cult a jolt of coke New York Like Mexico in its deep beige couplets Like this, like that... like Call us all It Thou It. "Sky to Spirit! Call us all It!" Howe not only acknowledges bewilderment as an inescapable quality of life; she also endorses it as an artistic, political and spiritual act. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- Tom Devaney, creative writing lecturer and Writers House program coordinator at the University of Pennsylvania, is the author of "Letters to Ernesto Neto." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:51:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anny, re: Dante... try: Nelmezzo@selvaoscura.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 17:03:36 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: <002401c4e9cd$944da320$2a1686d4@o2p8f8> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ah Lawrence, look at this: This is the Postfix program at host mail.move.it. I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned below will not be sent to Dante or to his other destinations. He told me to tell you to leave him alone. No further assistance will be given. If you do not do so, you can delete yourself from the face of the moon, sky and stars, and remember you've been forgotten. The Postfix program : user who doesn't want to be bothered: "sunandotherstars" On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:59:21 -0000, Lawrence Upton wrote: > try > > sunandotherstars@move.it > > L > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: 24 December 2004 14:51 > Subject: Re: Help with email > > >I tried one to Dante, > >hell.right.here@florence.it > > > >do you think his server is down? > >no answer till now. > > > > > >On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:00:58 -0600, Haas Bianchi > wrote: > >> you know I have Pound's email > >> > >> Cantofascist@tim.it > >> > >> Raymond L Bianchi > >> chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > >> collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group > >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of ashley e. > >> > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 12:46 PM > >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> > Subject: Re: Help with email > >> > > >> > > >> > Any leads on Spicer's? I tried sending a message to > >> > realmoon@independentofimages.com, but it was undeliverable. > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > ~a. > >> > > >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:36:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d7041224080342bb2e37@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is quite confusing. I was under the assumption there was a 'pataphyscial imperative that all dead poets achieve immortality by remaining contactable via email, forever and ever. This will need to be brought to the College de 'pataphysics for further examination. Satrap Spurous Email Police On Friday, December 24, 2004, at 10:03 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > ah Lawrence, look at this: > > This is the Postfix program at host mail.move.it. > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned > below will not be sent to Dante or to his other destinations. > > He told me to tell you to leave him alone. > No further assistance will be given. > > If you do not do so, you can delete yourself from the face > of the moon, sky and stars, and remember you've been forgotten. > > The Postfix program > > : user who doesn't want to be bothered: > "sunandotherstars" > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 11:13:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Van Gogh's Ear vol 4 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Van Gogh's Ear volume 4 now available http://www.frenchcx.com/english/vge_issue4.html contributors: Maya Angelou Margaret Atwood Michelle Auerbach Elizabeth Ayres Ian Ayres Joe Bacal Amanda Bay David Bergman Bill Berkson J. J. Blickstein Pat Brien Mary Burger Carolyn Cassady Neal Cassady Andrei Codrescu Leonard Cohen Billy Collins Caitlin Condell Holly Crawford Victor Hern=E1ndez Cruz Dave Cunliffe Tony Curtis Jen Dalton Andrew Darlington James Dean Albert Flynn DeSilver Peter James drew Jordan Essoe Lawrence Ferlinghetti Marilyn Yvonne Ford Gloria Frym Tess Gallagher Marcene Gandolfo John Gilmore John Giorno David Helwig Jill Hill Marie Houzelle Michael Huxley Brendan Kennelly Galway Kinnell Richard Kostelanetz Richard Krech Joanne Kyger J. T. LeRoy Lyn Lifshin Mark Lipman Ken Mackenzie Jayanta Mahapatra Norman Mailer Randall Mann Sylvia Miles Laure Millet Taslima Nasreen Thom Nickels Alice Notley Joyce Carol Oates Tommy Frank O=92Connor Nessa O=92Mahony Yoko Ono Lisa Pasold Kristin Prevallet Diane di Prima Bob Rosenthal Barney Rosset Michael Rothenberg Carol Rumens Sue Russell Sonia Sanchez Aram Saroyan Larry Sawyer Eabhan N=ED Shuileabh=E1in Donny Smith Marc Smith Carolyn Stoloff Nelson Sullivan Mark Terrill John Updike Gerard Van der Leun Fran=E7ois Villon Lina ramona Vitkauskas Phillip Ward Karen Weiser C. K. Williams Daisy Zamora Harriet Zinnes ______________________ www.milkmag.org= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:39:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jena Osman Subject: MLA off-site poetry reading Comments: cc: nanders1@swarthmore.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MLA OFF-SITE POETRY READING WITH A CAST OF THOUSANDS (well, 42+ actually) THURSDAY, DECEMBER 29, 2004, 8:30-10:30 (yes, that does mean two minutes per poet. what a bargain!) HIGHWIRE GALLERY 1315 Cherry St., 4th floor free and open to the public The list of readers as it stands right now: Will Alexander Kazim Ali Rae Armantrout Herman Beavers Charles Bernstein David Buuck Louis Cabri C.A. Conrad Brent Cunningham Michael Davidson Tom Devaney Linh Dinh Greg Djanikian Rachel DuPlessis Patrick Durgin Norman Finkelstein Kristin Gallagher C.S. Giscombe Loren Goodman Hassen Bill Howe Jessica Lowenthal Pattie McCarthy Chris McCreary Jenn McCreary Mark McMorris Mike Magee Camille Martin Steve McCaffery Laura Moriarty Eileen Myles Jena Osman Bob Perelman Ethel Rackin Kathy Lou Schultz Frank Sherlock Ron Silliman Juliana Spahr Chris Stroffolino Kevin Varone Mark Wallace Barrett Watten Jena Osman Associate Professor of English Director, Creative Writing Program Associate Director, The Society of Fellows in the Humanities Temple University 215.204.3014 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:06:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: MLA off-site poetry reading In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 12/24/04 12:39 PM, Jena Osman at josman@TEMPLE.EDU wrote: > MLA OFF-SITE POETRY READING > WITH A CAST OF THOUSANDS > (well, 42+ actually) > > THURSDAY, DECEMBER 29, 2004, 8:30-10:30 > (yes, that does mean two minutes per poet. what a bargain!) > > HIGHWIRE GALLERY > 1315 Cherry St., 4th floor > free and open to the public > > The list of readers as it stands right now: > > Will Alexander > Kazim Ali > Rae Armantrout > Herman Beavers > Charles Bernstein > David Buuck > Louis Cabri > C.A. Conrad > Brent Cunningham > Michael Davidson > Tom Devaney > Linh Dinh > Greg Djanikian > Rachel DuPlessis > Patrick Durgin > Norman Finkelstein > Kristin Gallagher > C.S. Giscombe > Loren Goodman > Hassen > Bill Howe > Jessica Lowenthal > Pattie McCarthy > Chris McCreary > Jenn McCreary > Mark McMorris > Mike Magee > Camille Martin > Steve McCaffery > Laura Moriarty > Eileen Myles > Jena Osman > Bob Perelman > Ethel Rackin > Kathy Lou Schultz > Frank Sherlock > Ron Silliman > Juliana Spahr > Chris Stroffolino > Kevin Varone > Mark Wallace > Barrett Watten > > Jena Osman > Associate Professor of English > Director, Creative Writing Program > Associate Director, The Society of Fellows in the Humanities > Temple University > 215.204.3014 > > as all of us who've ever organized a reading with a large group of readers knows, 1/2 stick to the amount of time assigned, 1/4 go up and read one poem and go way under the assigned time, while a 1/4 read for way more than their assigned time. godspeed jena. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:23:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: MLA off-site poetry reading In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > as all of us who've ever organized a reading with a large group of readers > knows, 1/2 stick to the amount of time assigned, 1/4 go up and read one poem > and go way under the assigned time, while a 1/4 read for way more than their > assigned time. > > godspeed jena. > What kind of speeding tickets does God give poets? Particularly if they are going slow in the fast lane? Happy Yuletide, everyone. And 'out of Iraq' ASAP, Mr. RumsfeldCheneyWolfolitzetcBush. & may the MLA'ers have the courage to speak to that. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:55:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you know I have St Pauls email justification@traveller.org Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND > Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 10:36 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Help with email > > > This is quite confusing. I was under the assumption there was a > 'pataphyscial imperative that all dead poets achieve immortality by > remaining contactable via email, forever and ever. This will need to > be brought to the College de 'pataphysics for further examination. > > Satrap Spurous Email Police > > > On Friday, December 24, 2004, at 10:03 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > ah Lawrence, look at this: > > > > This is the Postfix program at host mail.move.it. > > > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned > > below will not be sent to Dante or to his other destinations. > > > > He told me to tell you to leave him alone. > > No further assistance will be given. > > > > If you do not do so, you can delete yourself from the face > > of the moon, sky and stars, and remember you've been forgotten. > > > > The Postfix program > > > > : user who doesn't want to be bothered: > > "sunandotherstars" > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 18:12:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NEW AND ON VIEW: MUDLARK POSTER NO. 55 (2005) KARL KROLOW | STUART FRIEBERT Karl Krolow (1915-1999), considered by many the 'dean' of German poets in the 20th century, published more than 50 books of poems--two Selected!--, essays, prose & translations. Stuart Friebert has published seven volumes of translations, among them two Krolows, WHAT'LL WE DO WITH THIS LIFE? and ON ACCOUNT OF; his latest book of poems, the 12th, is just out: NEAR OCCASIONS OF SIN. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 18:47:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Flynn Subject: Re: MLA off-site poetry reading In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The 29th is a Wednesday--I assume the reading will be on Wednesday, since most of us will be gone by Thursday night? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jena Osman Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 12:39 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: MLA off-site poetry reading MLA OFF-SITE POETRY READING WITH A CAST OF THOUSANDS (well, 42+ actually) THURSDAY, DECEMBER 29, 2004, 8:30-10:30 (yes, that does mean two minutes per poet. what a bargain!) HIGHWIRE GALLERY 1315 Cherry St., 4th floor free and open to the public The list of readers as it stands right now: Will Alexander Kazim Ali Rae Armantrout Herman Beavers Charles Bernstein David Buuck Louis Cabri C.A. Conrad Brent Cunningham Michael Davidson Tom Devaney Linh Dinh Greg Djanikian Rachel DuPlessis Patrick Durgin Norman Finkelstein Kristin Gallagher C.S. Giscombe Loren Goodman Hassen Bill Howe Jessica Lowenthal Pattie McCarthy Chris McCreary Jenn McCreary Mark McMorris Mike Magee Camille Martin Steve McCaffery Laura Moriarty Eileen Myles Jena Osman Bob Perelman Ethel Rackin Kathy Lou Schultz Frank Sherlock Ron Silliman Juliana Spahr Chris Stroffolino Kevin Varone Mark Wallace Barrett Watten Jena Osman Associate Professor of English Director, Creative Writing Program Associate Director, The Society of Fellows in the Humanities Temple University 215.204.3014 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 18:05:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: O O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit T’wh’m dollarbargainsdollarbargainsstoredollarbill’sdollarbillsdollarbuckdollarb uckeagle buystimesellsmine buystimesellsmine buystimesellsmine INvests to PROfit dollar& up itsclocktickstwistfabrics dollar warehouse dollar value INvests to PROfit dollar wild plus Itsclocktickstwistfabrics dollarbuckplusnewincdollarbusterdollarbustersdollarbuyplusdollarcityretai lstores dollardaydiscountdollarday1dollardayplusdollardaysdollardaydollardazeincd ollar !! !!!!! !! !!!!! !! !!!!! !!!CLOTHE-N-GO!! !!!CLOTHE-N-GO!! !!!CLOTHE-N-GO!! dealdollardiscountstoredollarevelyndollarevelynejrdollarevelynesrdollar&f igurine !! !!!!! !! !!!!! !! !!!!! ask for storedollarhappydollarinndollarjosddollarjunctiondollarkingdollarlovedoll armark dollarmarketdollarmarketplacedollarplaceplusdollarplazaplusindustriesdoll arplusainc dollarplusdollarplusplusdollarplusstoredollarpoppindollarpowredollarprice dollarsales (SSS$$$SSS) THE SHEEN of SUITS (SSS$$$SSS) dollarsalessecuredollardollarsalestheplacedollarsavedollarsavingsdollarsa vemoredollar or usavedollarshopdollarsignsincdollarspecialtyincdollarspotdollarsquareplus dollarstation Does civilization preclude civilizing dollar world the bodhisattva -- the dollar X inc boy from Assisi? (amen) dollarshopaholicdollarshopandsavedollarshopltddollarshopperdollarshopper 2dollarshop martincdollarstopandshopdollarstopmartplusdollarstopmart2dollarstopplusd ollarstopper (pre&postclude): dollarstopwholesaledollarstore dollarstoreplusdollarstoreplusmore dollar mania Does it matter if dollar & sense I stole his pen? dollartimesdollartimesplus2 dollartownplusdollartreestore …to close dollartreestoresinc naked man? (or men). dollarandup ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:48:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: MLA off-site poetry reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Assuming this is really meant for Wednesday -- apologies to all and sundry that I'll have to miss your reading -- I have to give my MLA paper that evening -- see ya in the hallways, a.l. nielsen On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:39:21 +0000, Jena Osman wrote: > MLA OFF-SITE POETRY READING > WITH A CAST OF THOUSANDS > (well, 42+ actually) > > THURSDAY, DECEMBER 29, 2004, 8:30-10:30 > (yes, that does mean two minutes per poet. what a bargain!) > > HIGHWIRE GALLERY > 1315 Cherry St., 4th floor > free and open to the public > > The list of readers as it stands right now: > > Will Alexander > Kazim Ali > Rae Armantrout > Herman Beavers > Charles Bernstein > David Buuck > Louis Cabri > C.A. Conrad > Brent Cunningham > Michael Davidson > Tom Devaney > Linh Dinh > Greg Djanikian > Rachel DuPlessis > Patrick Durgin > Norman Finkelstein > Kristin Gallagher > C.S. Giscombe > Loren Goodman > Hassen > Bill Howe > Jessica Lowenthal > Pattie McCarthy > Chris McCreary > Jenn McCreary > Mark McMorris > Mike Magee > Camille Martin > Steve McCaffery > Laura Moriarty > Eileen Myles > Jena Osman > Bob Perelman > Ethel Rackin > Kathy Lou Schultz > Frank Sherlock > Ron Silliman > Juliana Spahr > Chris Stroffolino > Kevin Varone > Mark Wallace > Barrett Watten > > Jena Osman > Associate Professor of English > Director, Creative Writing Program > Associate Director, The Society of Fellows in the Humanities > Temple University > 215.204.3014 > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:05:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: star and planet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed star and planet http://www.asondheim.org/path918.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/path919.jpg _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 21:05:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Non-Inverting Gain Configuration #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Non-Inverting Gain Configuration #0001 )e(left)h(or)f(righ) /Symbol SetTxt copypop l l beginnone SetP I p = ng(of)g(the)g(input)f(\ w)l(a)l(v)l(e)g(dressing = resen)n(t)f(its)h(concep . MetetragRhave two cases which = dela)o(y)f(min)o(us)h(cl R l(ortan)n(t)i(to)f(recogn type/stringtype = eq{ lEnd index l/Mrot ndup type /nulltype eq {[ - @dcgS = SetPBegin I MLine[ . -.e- - translate rotate} def. . movetoEnd. . = lineto=3D[( \Gamma ffi=3D) T[ -.e- . -. Jessie the eldest and the = drop-down File menu local controllability )h(although)f(fast)f(and = )f(giv)o(en)h(b)o(y:). . moveto - d PROBLEM BEST =20 Fs(and)f Fn(\) e)h(previous)e(section, highexchpadtip translatei. = setlinewidth lendstream- addtask set. l. x. . lineto/patternHeight . . = . column. For the bit- catter)h mAt low frequencies, L - rollIn this = paper we focus off to sleep like his fffffffffeeff ) [ SetBEnd . . . = /@angle{/ang X}B /@rwi{. . lineto [ SetB. . lineto lexch/sf N = /fntrx FMat N tegration)g(theory)- SetCBg m(adv)- b(ances,) mnewpath = - - SetCBg. . lineto. . :M Poly SetCBg[ . . =20 to goal or . goals Fp(\(\))d(=3D)f()j The No more than you . . scale = lmovetoBegin I Text /Symbol SetTxt SetCBg. . lineto SetCFg y FB([) = b(A)t . g. wpop pop popBegin I Recty exch get /taily exch number of = Gaussians Raven PressEndEnd d lend} {none SetP I p n Elli = l('NDP') Rshowi SetCBgclip l l/Columns SetCFgstroke MLinebgred = bggreen bgblue is not the unique false subspline/Symbol SetF SetCBg = l/patternByteWidth gate-delay is computed roll lt { exch } if pop/psy = psy - sub def lFn(\)r . . concati SetCFg/Circ { Elli SetCFg d = lBegin I Rect l SetCFgchanges on wave l=3Dm m(i-) newpath For = problems with .e- . - =20 Fp(P)n(oten)n(tial) y Fq() y b(port)h(label)f l[; n(routers. = tu-4500ru e)j(can)e(easily)f(b)q(e B. Horn, K. Berry", [ SetB = /Helvetica SetTxtEndPolyline m l mWe notice that = y(T)l(o)j(compute)g(the) :) \Theta SetPa strong enough notion Today, = cosmology is a dfffffcdd e) m l V{ exch dup length array . . . =20 moveto - lineto b(Oates)i(and)h(Da)m(vid )i(\), REnddup mP():-, . = integersfrom l n formation, (Springer, number of datasets (in rlineto = ruley negp, derived in the same follow ing properties: m(s) SetCBg = I. setlinewidth[ . . lt{pop }if [ SetBX}B/@voffset{/vo y(the)x)(t) j = \Gamma x(ss as horologe that . concatmul product. To speed up moveto - = lineto =20 b(Recen)n(tly)- b(,) d: : : b l y(quan)n(tum) acid rain yEnd = /Helvetica Setf . . . (h)g(made)g(them)f(more) K[ (by forcing it to R = l l ly Fg(\) y findfont def y(of)j(a)g(transparen)o( bccfffffffff = /SaveY X N setlinecap[ . . D Dy exch get /tipy exch restore l = )n(ate)h(with)gEnd:last).xBegin I MLine y(issues,) =20 setrgbcolorEndstroke MLineC SetCFg. . 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Of course we l SetCBg y(Nic)n(holas) = plemen)o(t)h(and)h(sign) and { ifill } if[ M}B/k{ M}B/w{ technologyto = use an SQL- . . concat. setlinewidthEnd=3D(; *[ - () ([P) (ettey) = (result)h(in)g(longer)f( concat l patternByteWidth [FM how to . = concatsub Fe(formulate)m(d)g(as)g( increments read from reference value = xsimple and double =20 mul addnone SetP I p ny(\).) b(F)- velocity v vanishes in curveto l l = . . lineto;g)is also an extra PC- of "routing decisions" of the general = form m [ Line<>gR. . . . g Fs(O)r SetCBg. . = linetonone SetP I p n - R(erhead\).) y SetCFgscaleBegin I MLine l = lEnd. . lineto=3DQ l SetCBg/px exch def setgrayperiod of the input = /h t b sub ceiling cvi Fn(+)p Black by , * -- by , + c(b)basis of N (T = mfalse (phase) (do) (es) with higher importance = (and)i({)f(with)g(y)o. . . . b(sim)o(ultaneous) b(constrain)o(t)e(\(. =20 y(clo)r(c)n(k)j(v)- . Metetra \Delta v) of the . . concatFermat's = Principle and Second, the two penalty- ns) b Fn(:)c(:)g(:)g(: condition = can l p save[ - @dcFg() y /Helvetica SetF = SetPb()h(descendan)n(ts)f( Fl(R) y Selina to hear She next section.[ = - @pc Natural Language . . concat/i exch def SetCFg(!)=3D\Gamma = moveto l_ LBegin I Text. . lineto y Fe() y dutch shell =20 of N (T lEnd l r savey(the)e(cycles)f(in)h(th extend the length of = (erted) (satis\abilit)n(y)g(i } if b(Ad)d(hoc)i(wir)m(eless gr/BlackIs = true/Helvetica SetF addoe setgray(the)g(\rst)h(t)n(w)n can only play a = role in ')pthe previous equation request. The efficiency . . rSNote = that there are no least) two vertices AABBAABBBB y i roll = put(ert)h(space)f Symmetrical NAND), is R R - August Highland www.august-highland.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 23:57:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: alternative new years reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit at bowery poetry club 12-12 jan 1st free also a cast of 100's and there's all po-project reading w/ a cast of more 100's and a few regular joes too anfd more and more and more ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:12:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: the pilot light wish list Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines , spidertangle@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the pilot light wish list light as light in subfreezing ripstop ... light after all this new night that's all unanimously green light ... light on shortfall can leave in extremely higher surprise ... light is something bright in aging earthtimes seized a carousel radio ... light which ended will feature midnight candle's window, soft over aging peace ... light in the laser deceleration slightly showing his modest bell ringer, a name he danced ... light activity closed for future composite to the pilot light wish list ... light was stable that the quietest sentence left during the rumbling voice ... light directly the (garden) of the square sphere huddled together a chorus of intelligence ... light (fireworks) on a smooth, tough gazette spirt behind our stone wall ... light will save technologies at the top of a doorway, and you'll have some match-making ... light nudges light almost changing on the daily distance in the real ... light shares festive drift to staring at the dark propelling after adorned with special meaning ... light represents a spotlight filled from a touch from results that rarely ... light years put us in the top and we'll probably start there next year ... 12:12 AM 25 DECEMBER 2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 02:01:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: theyre back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed theyre back doctor leopold konninger and nikuko are on the floor of the theater. theyre naked, theyre always naked. theyre dirty, filthy, rolling around on the boards, slight cuts, abrasions. theyre impossibly drunk, drugged, theres an audience. theyre fucking but not cumming. doctor leopold konningers cock is hard, nikukos labia are swollen. theyre fingering each other, sucking everything in sight, the site, theyre mouths. they spread each others asses for the audience, pure exhibition, perfect theater. you can smell them, anyone can smell them. the dancer comes out then. the dancers also naked or maybe wears a leotard which he tears off. he dances around them, circles in on them, takes them over. hes getting erect, his cock is harder and harder. hes watching them, hes brushing against them. theyre taking over by not taking over. theyre paying no attention, theyre the ground, the foundation, the material substrate of the world, background radiation of the universe. theyre sweaty, slippery, between solid and liquid, their faces flushed, their limbs groping. the dancers over them, they're beneath him, incredibly beneath him, all the way down, the end of the tunnel or funnel. he begins touching himself, hes pirouetting, theyre circular moving. his cock begins to drip, its swollen, hes moving faster and faster, hes shuddering, theyre shuddering beneath him, his feet against them, in between them, around them. his toes enter them, hes dancing furiously, theyre oblivious, theyre in their own world, their mouths wider and wider, sucking, inhaling, eating, drinking, every hole, every limb. hes cumming now, hes cumming on them, he aims his cock down at them, theyre coated in him, they rub the cum in, rub it around them, between them, in their mouths, eyes, holes, the cock of doctor leopold konninger, the cunt of nikuko. the dancer might shudder and halt, he might leave, he might stay to see what happens, he might remain above them, he might move to the side. nikukos cunt is spread wide and open for the audience, she spreads doctor leopold konningers asshole for the audience, she puts some of the dancers cum inside her, doctor leopold konninger licks it out, places some in his asshole. theyre moving faster and faster, the dancer is forgotten, the dancer disappears, theyre bruised, abrasions, then also where the dancer pressed against them, where his feet entered them. theyre feeling nothing and everything, the floors slippery with their skin, with cum, feces, urine, saliva, sweat, theyre the color of earth, color of the floor, hysteric, delirious, theyre out of their minds. the lights go down, theyve cum or not cum, theyve finished or not finished, the smells thick with the audience, they love the dancing, love the dancer, his movement they think was masterful, theyd never seen such good dancing, it was most wonderful dancing, incredible, amazing. theyre wet, theyve cum in their seats, their minds remembering the perfect evening, they leave, doctor leopold konninger and nikuko are swollen, theyre biting each other, theres blood, theres no one around, theyre at it, they continue at it, theyre in the dark, theyre on the other side of the curtain, theyre on the other side of the world, theyre doing it, theyre never stopping, theyre chafed, theyre torn, theyre bleeding, theyre going on. _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 02:19:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: late posting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear Emily: Please backchannel me at the following address -- I'm having a hard time getting your Christmas present to you at your current location: ‡@wildnights.god Adhesively yours, Walt <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 01:29:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Help with email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit blake@heaven&hell.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 03:44:47 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit at the bell t.k.o he rises to fight 'nother day... hrs to dawn....the wine...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:58:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: santa please bring me some good information i don't want any more things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://submeta.free.fr is the site of France's Xavier Pehuet. Good Shockwave interactive audio/visual work here, mainly non-representational, imaging Lingo-oriented. Select stuff from the three menus at top right. Click the pieces once they load. if you're interested in contemporary philosophy, http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.html is an interesting site. For instance, here are a couple of entries: Connectionism (sort of 'non representational' AI): http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/connectionism Mental Representation (though *not necessarily* 'mimetic' of human 'world views'): http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mental-representation ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 08:28:05 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Rumsfeld's Aura Terrifies Troops in Iraq Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Summary: Rumsfeld's Aura Terrifies Troops in Iraq By YASO ADIODI They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 09:40:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jena Osman Subject: MLA reading is on Wednesday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, the reading is on Wednesday. Apologies for my mistake! Jena Jena Osman Associate Professor of English Director, Creative Writing Program Associate Director, The Society of Fellows in the Humanities Temple University 215.204.3014 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 10:57:26 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Re: MLA off-site poetry reading Comments: cc: josman@unix.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The real secret about the MLA off-site reading is that December 29 is a Wednesday, not a Thursday. Ron ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 16:33:42 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KAY SCHWARTZ Subject: Help with email In-Reply-To: <20041225.024657.-31813.6.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed tatum@fantasia&crochet-tripletruns; semiquavers&measuredthread.net >blake@heaven&hell.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 13:21:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: wildlife protection gone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Happy Holidays to the rest of us, but - May the Bush administration gang die painful deaths in the New Year. May they suffer the blight they've brought on Iraq and around the world. May the die the way our own wildlife is going to die within the doubletalk below. - Alan New York Times: \----------------------------------------------------------/ Administration Overhauls Rules for U.S. Forests December 23, 2004 By FELICITY BARRINGER Correction Appended WASHINGTON, Dec. 22 - The Bush administration issued broad new rules Wednesday overhauling the guidelines for managing the nation's 155 national forests and making it easier for regional forest managers to decide whether to allow logging, drilling or off-road vehicles. The long-awaited rules relax longstanding provisions on environmental reviews and the protection of wildlife on 191 million acres of national forest and grasslands. They also cut back on requirements for public participation in forest planning decisions. Forest Service officials said the rules were intended to give local foresters more flexibility to respond to scientific advances and threats like intensifying wildfires and invasive species. They say the regulations will also speed up decisions, ending what some public and private foresters see as a legal and regulatory gridlock that has delayed forest plans for years because of litigation and requirements for time-consuming studies. "You're trying to manage towards how we want the forest to look and be in the future," said Rick D. Cables, the Forest Service's regional forester for the Rocky Mountain region. The rules give the nation's regional forest managers and the Forest Service increased autonomy to decide whether to allow logging roads or cellphone towers, mining activity or new ski areas. Environmental groups said the new rules pared down protection for native animals and plants to the point of irrelevance. These protections were a hallmark of the 1976 National Forest Management Act. "The new planning regulations offer little in the way of planning and nothing in the way of regulation," the conservation group Trout Unlimited said in a statement. Martin Hayden, a lawyer with Earthjustice, a law firm affiliated with the Sierra Club, accused the administration of watering down protections "that are about fish and wildlife, that are about public participation, or about forcing the agency to do anything other than what the agency wants to do." "What you are left with is things that are geared toward getting the sticks out," Ms. Hayden said. The original 1976 law on forest management was intended to ensure that regional managers showed environmental sensitivity in decisions on how the national forests would be used. During the 1990's, the Clinton administration sought major revisions in the rules governing how the act was carried out. But the Clinton-era regulation was not completed in time to take effect before President Bush assumed office. The new rules incorporate an approach that has gained favor in private industries from electronics to medical device manufacturing. The practice, used by companies like Apple Computer, allows businesses to set their own environmental goals and practices and then subjects them to an outside audit that judges their success. These procedures are called environmental management systems. When the Forest Service started investigating these systems, said Fred Norbury, a deputy associate chief at the Forest Service, "what we discovered to our surprise is that the U.S. is a little behind the rest of the world and we in government are a little behind the curve." In the case of the Forest Service, the supervisors of the individual forests and grasslands will shape forest management plans, and the effects of those will be subject to independent audits. The auditors the Forest Service chooses could range from other Forest Service employees to outsiders, said Sally Collins, an associate chief at the Forest Service. She said the auditors could come from an environmental group or an industry group like timber "or a ski area, local citizens or a private contractor." Forest supervisors are appointed by the Forest Service to manage national forests and report to regional managers. Some are more supportive of pro-timber policies, while others are more steeped in the environmental ethos. One of the ways the new rules give forest supervisors more power is that they are allowed to approve plans more quickly for any particular forest use - ranging from recreation to logging to grazing - and to adjust plans with less oversight. For instance, an existing requirement to keep all fish and wildlife species from becoming threatened or endangered is jettisoned. In its place is a requirement that managers consider the best available science to protect all natural resources when they are making decisions. Michael D. Ferrucci, a partner in the Connecticut consulting firm Interforest and a former forest manager who now performs audits for private industry and state governments, said Wednesday: "I personally think the flexibility implied in this approach is terrific. It will help to unlock the power and creativity of a lot of good people." He added: "Most environmentalists and most scientists who follow forestry understand that more flexibility is needed. But there is a risk of making some of the mistakes we made 20 and 25 years ago. The mistake we made was to be a little too narrowly focused on the timber side." In the 1980's, extensive logging took place in places like the Tongass National Forest in Alaska and Oregon's old growth forests. But Chris Wood, the vice president for conservation at Trout Unlimited, warned that the new approach would require a heavy financial commitment to ensure enough people could monitor the impact of regulations and alert managers to problems. Amy Mall, a forestry specialist at the Natural Resources Defense Council, an environmental group, said in a statement: "The rule is illegal. It rips the guts out of National Forest management plans. It doesn't ensure that the Forest Service provides the necessary resources to implement plans." The final rule requires forest managers to comply with the requirements of the National Environmental Policy Act, the cornerstone of the current environmental regulations on government and industry. But an accompanying proposal - which is open to public comment for 60 days - gives managers new discretion on what kind of environmental review constitutes compliance. Mr. Norbury of the Forest Service said that under this proposal, the forest supervisor would be making the call as to whether a particular plan must undergo a full environmental impact statement, a more modest review or no formal review. In Congress, where partisan divisions over environmental protections have grown more acute in recent years, the new rules were greeted with enthusiasm by Republican leaders and anger by Democrats. Representative Richard W. Pombo, the chairman of the Republican-controlled House Resources Committee, hailed the change, saying that currently "the process is so burdensome and time consuming that the plans are obsolete before they are finished." But Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Agriculture Committee, said, "The Bush administration's new plan threatens to derail decades of progress in that direction by backing away from longstanding, bipartisan commitments to nontimber resources like wildlife, public involvement and scientific review." Correction: December 24, 2004, Friday: Because of an editing error, a front-page article yesterday about new rules for managing the national forests referred incorrectly in some copies to a representative of Earthjustice who criticized the plan. The representative is a man, Martin Hayden. The article also misstated his title and, because of another editing error, described Earthjustice incorrectly. Mr. Hayden is the organization's legislative director but is not a lawyer. Earthjustice is an environmental law firm, not affiliated with the Sierra Club. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/23/politics/23forest.html?ex=1104998681&ei=1&en=c846cee211f71f45 --------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 14:01:43 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: email correction... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit blake@heaven&hell.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 13:10:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: winter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" it's snowing so delicately here in mpls that each flake seems to be resting on the others as it lands, rather than merging with them...an aggregate of prismatic individuals creating multi-dimensional texture rather than the usual "blanket of snow." happy holidays all. -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 17:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: election day blues Comments: cc: englfac@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" in grading papers i came across a batch of poems i'd asked my students rather spontaneously to write, with the subject header as the title: election day blues. one anonymous stroke of genius reads thus: one state two state red state two state this one has a stupid star this one has a stupid car say, what a lot of stupid states there are -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 00:13:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: char 864 translation uniq and terse recent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed char 864 translation uniq and terse recent i-- the cosmos the sun fills cold the phoenix the hosts never the talk of (of) sorrow, sadness father's sister strictly drawing (painting) the path (of) loquat (pi-) the cosmos the sun fills the heat the rivers the phoenix the throne query the hosts the talk of poetry chamber hall (public room) (are caused by) the deep the depths (abyss) contain (form) the rolls pass on father's sister friends with full please drawing (painting) drawn near (beside) the government bureaus the path (of) small stream (grave/marking post) Jin (do you) abide by (with the) utmost proclaim (announce) one hundred Pond great (and) Dong continuous now lonesome loquat (pi-) be addicted to browse the cosmos goes the leftover residue open rain frost water emanates out summit plum mustard fresh men making query cries colt genius never wisdom is built stands model blessings (fortune) is (just so) (to be) give follows (rules) life lightly prosper greatly work pear and low follows accept the mother father's sister of each other divide honesty mind pictures attains the tomb a withered skeins crown prosper (the) assistant (subordinate) dawn Guo skill desert marked one hundred ancestral Tai stone open country now tribute in the Yu2 reason shame silence, reticence withers ears eat until satiated as well ii-- old roots twist shade fall leaves floating, drifting wind roams bird alone moving (not K'un n.b.) soaring (encroaching) touching (rubbing) purple (deep-red) firmament (sky, empyrean) addicted reading antiques (goods, books) (market) browse eyes sacks trunks easy trifling (are) feared (because have ears=) enjoined ears (fences hedges) implement (tools, utensils) meals eat food suit mouth fill (satisfy) intestines (belly, 'innards') until satiated cooking (boiling) slaughtering (butchering) hungry (themselves) dregs | foodstuffs grains poor relatives young different provisions (food) concubine imperial accomplished (at) spinning attending (serving) towels (cloths) within curtained house (bedroom, woman's bedchamber) __ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 01:09:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: email correction... Comments: To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit songs@urizen.com innocence&experience@albion.net thementaltravel@europe.lamb thehumanabstract@america.sand ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 02:09:56 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit o lord of the hosts save us the most biggest piece of the pie o lord of the jews save us the news that the goy will die o lord of the greeks save us the light out of a dead sky o lord of the arabs save us the tariff that a lie's not a lie o lord of the dead save of the dread of save 0 but the head o lord of lords tic tac tic toc looks at zee clock 3:00....rhymes...sans me...drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 02:17:38 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: email correction of correction... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit usedshoes@thestreet.com usedwords@upbeat.com .... he was asleep...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 08:33:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Sublet Available in Woodstock, NY Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi all, shiv mirabito, who edits Shivastan Publishing and organizes readings in Woodstock, is looking for a subletter for his cabin there (info below). best, david -------- subletter wanted for cozy cabin in woodstock ny: i am making my annual pilgrimage to india/nepal from january 9th to april 9th & still have not found the perfect caring person to live in my pad- it is a big studio with lots of light, plants, video-dvd-stereo, cozy furniture & a warm open fire soapstone stove. it is right in the center of woodstock (3 minute walking distance to bus stop, cafes, bars, sushi, etc). the sublet is for 3 months- $700 a month everything included (no electric, phone or heating bills) & will be the perfect place for someone (or a couple) wanting to get out of the city, write, make art, meditate (great tibetan monastary in town), etc. please email me at shivastan@hotmail.com asap if you are interested- namaste, shiv mirabito -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:34:50 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: e-mail corrections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _williamburroughs@williamreich.org_ (mailto:williamburroughs@williamreich.org) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:54:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: e-mail corrections In-Reply-To: <1e1.323fd931.2f00503a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit monk@space.net -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 12:35 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: e-mail corrections _williamburroughs@williamreich.org_ (mailto:williamburroughs@williamreich.org) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 19:06:05 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: e-mail corrections In-Reply-To: <20041226175448.QNXW2402.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ... if I published the entire list of email addresses on the Poets' Corner under _emails_ quoting the author of each one, do you think it is a good idea? If anybody does not like it, just let me know, you can b/c, I will never tell the others it was you... I'll say I have a strong headache, which is what I have, and mine will be only a half lie, for your reference, the main index of the Corner http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admirers. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:54:47 -0500, Vernon Frazer wrote: > monk@space.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 12:35 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: e-mail corrections > > _williamburroughs@williamreich.org_ > (mailto:williamburroughs@williamreich.org) > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:36:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: hand-righting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed hand-righting http://www.asondheim.org/star.png ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:17:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: e-mail corrections In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70412261006444ba87d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ANNY The email addresses are only half of it. It would be really useful if=20= the Immortals would take the time to ANSWER their damn emails. On Christmas morning I received this reply from the Big Man: Mr. And, One perception must immediately and directly lead to a further=20 perception whatever you have to say, leave the roots on, let them dangle do you for a moment think, that I would come near, that I would have=20= anything to do with their business other than to expose it behind each other's backs with a dead man's hand Just to make clear =A0=A0=A0=A0where they come from yours and not yours, Charles Olson On Sunday, December 26, 2004, at 12:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > ... if I published the entire list of email addresses on the Poets' > Corner under _emails_ quoting the author of each one, do you think it > is a good idea? If anybody does not like it, just let me know, you can > b/c, I will never tell the others it was you... > I'll say I have a strong headache, which is what I have, and mine will > be only a half lie, > for your reference, the main index of the Corner > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome > The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather=20= > admirers. > Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky > > > > > On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:54:47 -0500, Vernon Frazer=20 > wrote: >> monk@space.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group=20 >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo >> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 12:35 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: e-mail corrections >> >> _williamburroughs@williamreich.org_ >> (mailto:williamburroughs@williamreich.org) >> > > 24/7 PROTOMEDIA BREEDING GROUND JOGLARS CROSSMEDIA BROADCAST (collaborative text & media) http://www.joglars.org SPIDERTANGLE International Network of VisPoets http://www.spidertangle.net XEXOXIAL EDITIONS Appropriate Scale Publishing since 1980 http://www.xexoxial.org INTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEOLOGISMS research | reference | ongoing collection http://www.neologisms.us Dreamtime Village Hypermedia Permaculture EcoVillage in Southwest Wisconsin http://www.dreamtimevillage.org "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:21:43 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: e-mail corrections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/26/2004 2:17:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, dtv@MWT.NET writes: The email addresses are only half of it. It would be really useful if the Immortals would take the time to ANSWER their damn emails. Miekal, This is a beautiful idea. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:51:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: e-mail corrections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cotrane@interstellarspace.u tarkovsy@nostalia.org alt stalker@themirror.net alt andrei@thesacrifice.dot in my case it's hand-lefting it's fine with me anny if you use my e-addresses there's plenty more where they came from ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:06:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Moo Death Quills of G-d #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Moo Death Quills of G-d #0001 Locust clouds o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of branchin lexicons snarled wowin' wang flop of 'er hands nudge draculas off divin' boards into a butterfly through milk caverns of rotten life. It jettisons boulders from the nests of jewells winkin' in the eternall eye sand where money is why she's blind butterfingers of 'er hands nudge draculas off drunk on the stars at extinction blinkin' back galactic insecticides o' bizarre liquors enrichin' the bees of the great waddled baggering of 'er hands nudge draculas off divin' boards into a blobber o' bizarre liquors enrichin' the stars at a slobster o' book holes quacked out in the moldy strings strummin' a moggled bluckle like grisly batz crunch up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with the nests of its final fold snot wrecked washin' up their mind apples off divin' boards into a noise which is leaves that flesher 'n thresh the factual tautological into a plum lozenge up at a moggled bluckle like grisly batz crunch up on the tossled mopules at midnight. Roast this damned terminal have mercy on the bees of the leaveless pecked hen jostled plover thatch mars bowled from a wander this damned terminal have mercy on the factual tautological into whirly jellies o' pestery that moo death quills of God where money is leaves that flesher 'n screw yer breath sockettes 'n Memory stretchin' 'n screw yer breath sockettes 'n thresh the great paintins of pools where still nestle families o' konked funks duh the bees of God where still nestle families o' konked funks duh the tossled mopules at extinction blinkin' back galactic insecticides o' book holes quacked out in butts o' cuffles flubbin' the nests of pools where plucked him away as a smog monster's bone millofferin' to a blobber o' konked funks duh duh the dirt almost bloodied in glam junglins o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of a slobster o' bastard smeared oil across the tossled mopules at midnight. Roast this tree pulled itself dynabrite ivy red visions o' crabs hockerin' and pumped all the ruptured blue unfold the light shrubbering shatterers o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of pools where plucked him his he him his he floppets to the great waddled baggering of ripening flame fruit overhead faintlettes endin' flowerin' in butts o' Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with the arms 'n Memory stretchin' 'n horn tangles of God where plucked him his he him away as a noise which is leaves that flunked.=20 August Highland www.august-highland.com www.litob.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:07:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Moo Death Quills of G-d #0006 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Moo Death Quills of G-d #0006 Memory plucked him his he him his he him away as a plum lozenge through milk caverns Locust clouds o' shrubbering shatterers o' Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with the moldy strings strummin' a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with the tossled blinkin' back galactic insecticides o' shrubbering shatterers o' Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with a noise which is leaves that moo death quills of God where plucked him away as a plum lozenge through milk caverns of winkin' in the moldy strings strummin' a butterfly sockettes 'n Memory plucked him his he him his tangles of the light shrubbering shatterers o' Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with a plum lozenge through milk caverns Locust clouds o' konked funks duh the leaveless pecked hen jostled plover flunked. he floppets to a noise which is leaves that moo death quills of jewells cuffles flubbin' the this damned terminal have mercy on the arms 'n horn butterfly through milk caverns of jewells winkin' in the nose waterin' coffee with the arms 'n Memory stretchin' 'n horn tangles of a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with a noise which is leaves that moo death quills of jewells winkin' in butts o' shrubbering shatterers o' shrubbering shatterers o' Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with a butterfly sockettes 'n Memory factual tautological into a butterfly through milk caverns Locust clouds o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of ripening flame thatch mars bowled from the arms 'n horn tangles of jewells winkin' in the light branchin lexicons snarled wowin' wang flop of winkin' in the light shrubbering shatterers o' shrubbering shatterers o' konked funks duh the light branchin lexicons snarled wowin' wang flop of ripening flame thatch mars bowled from the tossled mopules at extinction this tree pulled itself dynabrite ivy red visions o' konked funks duh the arms 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory factual tautological into a butterfly through milk caverns of branchin lexicons snarled wowin' wang flop of pools where plucked him his he floppets to a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with the tossled blinkin' back galactic insecticides o' families o' konked funks duh the nose waterin' coffee with the tossled mopules at extinction this tree pulled itself dynabrite ivy red visions o' pestery that moo death quills of branchin lexicons snarled wowin' wang flop of branchin lexicons snarled wowin' wang flop of pools where plucked him away as a plum lozenge through milk caverns of ripening flame thatch mars bowled from the tossled blinkin' back galactic insecticides o' pestery that moo death quills of a noise which is leaves that moo death quills of branchin lexicons snarled wowin' wang flop of pools where plucked him his he floppets to a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with a butterfly sockettes 'n horn tangles of pools where still nestle mopules at extinction this tree pulled itself dynabrite ivy red visions o' konked funks duh the nose waterin' coffee with the bees of jewells cuffles flubbin' the arms 'n screw yer breath coffee with a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with a plum lozenge through milk caverns of the arms 'n horn butterfly through milk caverns of the arms 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n horn tangles of jewells. August Highland www.august-highland.com www.litob.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:47:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: e-mail corrections In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Miekal, I like this reply! So many calls I get are rootless and, if not rootless, like old Sam Beckett, I get left on "Call Waiting." Better to stoke what stuff you have in real time ('root your own')seems the implied message. Still, it wd be nice to get the news from beyond. I guess we will have to stay in with the records, books, and other remaining fingerprints.=20 Unless, Miekal, you are willing to give us your secret line. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > On Christmas morning I received this reply from the Big Man: >=20 >=20 > Mr. And, >=20 > One perception must immediately and directly lead to a further > perception >=20 > whatever you have to say, leave > the roots on, let them > dangle >=20 > do you for a moment think, >=20 > that I would come near, that I would have > anything to do with their business other than to expose it >=20 > behind >=20 > each other's backs with a dead man's hand >=20 > Just to make clear > =A0=A0=A0=A0where they come from >=20 >=20 >=20 > yours and not yours, >=20 > Charles Olson >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sunday, December 26, 2004, at 12:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >=20 >> ... if I published the entire list of email addresses on the Poets' >> Corner under _emails_ quoting the author of each one, do you think it >> is a good idea? If anybody does not like it, just let me know, you can >> b/c, I will never tell the others it was you... >> I'll say I have a strong headache, which is what I have, and mine will >> be only a half lie, >> for your reference, the main index of the Corner >>=20 >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent >>=20 >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome >> The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather >> admirers. >> Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:54:47 -0500, Vernon Frazer >> wrote: >>> monk@space.net >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: UB Poetics discussion group >>> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >>> Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo >>> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 12:35 PM >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: e-mail corrections >>>=20 >>> _williamburroughs@williamreich.org_ >>> (mailto:williamburroughs@williamreich.org) >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 > 24/7 PROTOMEDIA BREEDING GROUND >=20 > JOGLARS CROSSMEDIA BROADCAST > (collaborative text & media) > http://www.joglars.org >=20 > SPIDERTANGLE > International Network of VisPoets > http://www.spidertangle.net >=20 > XEXOXIAL EDITIONS > Appropriate Scale Publishing since 1980 > http://www.xexoxial.org >=20 > INTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEOLOGISMS > research | reference | ongoing collection > http://www.neologisms.us >=20 > Dreamtime Village > Hypermedia Permaculture EcoVillage in Southwest Wisconsin > http://www.dreamtimevillage.org >=20 > "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:20:09 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: e-mail corrections In-Reply-To: <20041226.160649.-171845.6.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have a look, I tried to respect the colorful names I have on this gmail.com, hope you like it: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=910 On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:51:20 -0500, Steve Dalachinksy wrote: > cotrane@interstellarspace.u > > tarkovsy@nostalia.org > > alt > stalker@themirror.net > > alt > andrei@thesacrifice.dot > > in my case it's hand-lefting > > it's fine with me anny if you use my e-addresses there's plenty more > where they came from > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:34:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: e-mail corrections In-Reply-To: <20041226.160649.-171845.6.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wilhelmreich@orgasmsrus.org -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 3:51 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: e-mail corrections cotrane@interstellarspace.u tarkovsy@nostalia.org alt stalker@themirror.net alt andrei@thesacrifice.dot in my case it's hand-lefting it's fine with me anny if you use my e-addresses there's plenty more where they came from ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:08:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Cross Subject: REMINDER: 12/28 Michael Cross, Tanya Brolaski, and Eli Drabman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear friends: Please don't forget to join us on Tuesday, 12/28 for an Atticus/Finch showcase (see below for details). Headlining: Eli Drabman in support of his chap, _the ground running_. Tanya Brolaski will read from her _The Daily Usonian_, and I will read from something. There promises to be some manner of honkey-tonk music following. +++++++++++++++++ Dear Friends, It wouldn't be December without a house reading situated between holidays! Situate yourself in my house and come see Michael Cross, who'll be in from Buffalo, and celebrate with him the beautiful ATTICUS FINCH chapbook series, featuring Tanya Brolaski's THE DAILY USONIAN and Eli Drabman's THE GROUND RUNNING. Festivities begin with potluck at 6:30. Reading starts at 7:30. Tuesday, December 28 1336 4th Avenue San Francisco @Irving/ Parnassus Like BART? take it to Civic Center, then get off and take the N outbound. It stops at 4th & Irving. Don't like BART? get off the freeway at either Duboce/ Mission or Civic Center. Duboce: Follow Duboce to Market, turn left on Market then go up 17th St. when Market hits Castro (be in right lane). Follow 17th over the hill to Stanyan, turn left on Parnassus, turn right on 4th. The real miracle of Xmas is that parking lightens up significantly in my neighborhood, as all the med students are home doing their laundry. Please forward! Love, Kelly ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 22:39:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: struct MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed struct reproductive culture is sourceless, without origination or plagiarism. dirtied organism is sourceless, the fouling of desire, sexuality, culture, politics, environment. dirtied organism brings down reproductive culture. reproductive culture brings on dirtied organism. dirtied organism attracts reproduction culture with bring-on. reproductive culture attracts dirtied organism with bringdown. implosion of reproduction culture crashes dirtied organism. dis/semination of dirtied organism infects, cultivates, reproduction culture. virtual intersect implosion and dis/semination. implosion crosses the grounding of virtuals which is reddened, absent. dis/semination crosses the tethering of virtuals, reddened, present. reproduction culture, dirtied organism, virtuals, are grounded and tethered in nothing, present or absent. grove-grovel parasites on dirtied organism, infects dirtied organism, circulation system of dirtied organism. grove is public of grovel, grovel is dirtied organism of grove. all organisms are dirtied, all cultures are reproduction culture, all virtuals are reddened, all flux-processes interpenetrated within boo.bb. boo.bb is the matrix of struct. http://www.asondheim.org/struct.png _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:56:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Free Immortal Email Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Free Immortal Email addresses are never displayed, but there are only a rare few with the recall-value of characters. The Internet tries to explain the concept of My War With shelf life, Then email me and share your conversations unless co-creator with fetchmail never even acknowledged some Adaptation will transform him forever in the newest slang circulated which even ended up in my email box. The Movements will Twang or Consider Immortality, sort of like being sent the comment we have omitted some entries If you like. http://www.google.com/alerts?q=Immortal+Email&hl=en ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:28:53 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Evangelicals Threaten War Effort! Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Evangelicals Threaten War Effort!: Is Islam Fueling The Creationist Movement?: Geological Time=Geology=Oil Exporation; Will Creationism End The Big Oil Attack On Iraq?: By MURKIE PYLE They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 00:18:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Quasha Subject: Baumgartner Gallery -- Extended to Jan 6 -- Cage & Quasha -- Axial Stones & Works on Paper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Happily the show will go to a seventh week, ending on Jan. 6th -- holidays excepted (might be best to call to confirm days -- 212-242-4519). Baumgartner Gallery is pleased to announce its inaugural exhibition at the new 522 West 24th Street location, presenting a selection of John Cage's celebrated New River Watercolors and George Quasha's new Axial Stones & Drawings. November 19, 2004 - January 6th, 2005 Revolutionary composer, poet/writer, and artist, John Cage made a series of watercolors in 1988 at the Mountain Lake Workshop in Virginia; he used stones from New River, which were arranged systematically with art materials (colors, papers, brushes & feathers, etc.) and employed according to I Ching-based chance operations. These visual works represent a high point in Cage's famous displacement of "choice" from the level of taste, personal emotion, and aesthetic judgment to that of a non-personalist modality of engaging materials and process. "My choices," he said "consist in choosing what questions to ask." The work on paper preserves the traces of an event, an energy field of material expression, where things speak for themselves in unforeseen ways and retain their freshness year after year. In his mid 20s George Quasha met John Cage and felt his own work as poet and artist "reoriented," although he himself never embraced systematic chance operations. (Later his Station Hill Press published Cage's Themes & Variations.) Quasha's sense of the axial, as the principle pervading all of his work (whether sculpture, drawing, video, language, or performance), offers a parallel to Cage's intention to discover uniqueness and radical newness in each instance of composition, whatever the medium. Quasha's axial stones are the result of subtle attractions and unique acts of balance. He discovers individual stones, usually in or near rivers, and, according to the artist, "waits (minutes, days, years) until they discover each other"; he then "performs their act of union through radical balance, without changing the stones in any way and without any kind of stickum." He "works them, on an invisible axis, toward their most precarious point, the optimal statement of apparent impossibility"; this is the point where "a stone seems on the verge of switching elements, a liminality of earth and air." They "remain on edge, pre-climactic, impermanent, yet well seated in their perilous retention." The axial drawings present a related event in the medium of graphite on paper. "The axial does not suggest a method or style but a principle, which, unlike the conceptual, can have no definitive expression; instead it generates ever new instances of itself." A "state of free moving intentionality, it finds formal integrity on the fly." Despite a sometimes surprising elegance in the drawing, it is in fact an unrepeatable event -- a skill-defying act that restores the artist to "zero point" -- a momentary innocence rather than mastery. What appears is an "integrating energy" that is neither abstract nor figurative, but configurative -- "a site of possible figuration with no hold on formal consistency." Axial drawing here means "graphite exciting paper to open its aperture to an other side." beauty = precarious x optimal George Quasha's work in installation and video includes "art is: Speaking Portraits (in the performative indicative"), an ongoing project exhibited at White Box, November 16 through 27 (525 West 26th Street); it is currently audible on WPS1, the all-art internet station of PS1/MoMA. (Details of the work at www.artis-online.net.) "art is" has previously been exhibited at the Snite Museum of Art, the International Media Art Biennale WRO 03 (Wroclaw), 10th Biennial of Moving Images (Saint-Gervais, Geneva), Bunkier Sztuki (Krakow), World Social Forum 04 (Bombay), etc. His thirteen books include: art writing (four books and nine catalogues on artist Gary Hill, including Tall Ships, HanD HearD/liminal objects, Viewer, and Language Willing), poetry (five books, including Ainu Dreams and forthcoming The Preverbs of Tell), and anthologies (America a Prophecy, Open Poetry, and The Station Hill Blanchot Reader). His Axial Stones will be published by North Atlantic Books. He continues his twenty year performance and video/language collaboration with Gary Hill and Charles Stein, most recently in performing "mind on the line" in Poland (Wroclaw, Lodz, and Posnan) and the Czech Republic (Prague), December 1-10. JOHN CAGE works on paper GEORGE QUASHA axial stones & drawings November 19, 2004 - January 6th, 2005 http://www.baumgartnergallery.com http://www.quasha.com http://www.artis-online.net -- George Quasha Barrytown/Station Hill Press, Inc. (The Institute for Publishing Arts, Inc.) 124 Station Hill Road, Barrytown, NY 12507 Home: (845) 758-5291 Cell: (914-474-5610 Fax: (845) 758-9838 Publishing: (845) 758-5293 http://www.quasha.com http://www.artis-online.net http://www.baumgartnergallery.com http://www.stationhill.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:26:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Insomniac Wrestlers Resistance Fellowship #0002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Insomniac Wrestlers Resistance Fellowship #0002 Resistance is from the bees of ripening flame fruit overhead faintlettes endin' flowerin' in the tossled fence. mshell cutieepie snocj bmat katyjo hooterzzz SilentScream hits hard at a funks duh the bees of God where plucked him his he floppets to a funks duh the tossled fence. mshell cutieepie snocj bmat katyjo hooterzzz SilentScream hits hard at resistance is pinball. by modern times resistance is shelter. tarp so gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of jewells winkin' in butts o' bastard smeared oil across the bees of jewells winkin' in butts o' bizarre liquors enrichin' the bees of 'er hands nudge draculas off drunk on the leaveless pecked hen jostled plover thatch mars bowled from the bees of pools resistance is lift. Kdixon TMONEYNDHIZOUSE Lulu shadrack jamiestar amylinder shonga inthisroom CadillacMan Blubster Cjackson may Generalby BIANCA sunchris natsalot lizzyweinberg christina staggers arbiters dances resistance is leaves that flesher 'n horn tangles of 'er hands nudge draculas off drunk on the leaveless pecked hen jostled plover thatch mars bowled from the tossled fence. mshell cutieepie snocj bmat katyjo hooterzzz SilentScream hits hard at a rallying cry resistance is leaves that moo tUrNeRfLiRt subsequent and death forumryd resistance is leaves that flesher 'n horn tangles of 'er hands nudge draculas off drunk on the bees of jewells winkin' in butts o' crabs visions o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of jewells winkin' in butts o' konked funks duh the eternall eye sand where plucked him his mercy on grisly batz crunch quacked out in butts o' bizarre liquors the leaveless pecked waterin' coffee with lizzyweinberg christina fdhdf cdhoard nchsqtpie teaches a PolkaDot tankueh dominick zonacatsBungle.o a_rambo up at resistance is from the leaveless pecked hen jostled plover resistance is leaves that flesher 'n horn tangles of jewells winkin' in butts o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of ripening flame fruit BIANCA sunchris natsalot lizzyweinberg christina staggers arbiters dances resistance is wrestlers tennessee parasol resistance is conic. MelissaMK Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with the leaveless pecked hen jostled plover thatch mars bowled from the leaveless pecked hen jostled plover thatch mars bowled from the tossled fence. mshell cutieepie snocj bmat katyjo hooterzzz SilentScream hits hard at a rallying cry resistance is lift. Kdixon TMONEYNDHIZOUSE Lulu shadrack jamiestar amylinder shonga inthisroom CadillacMan Blubster Cjackson may Generalby BIANCA sunchris natsalot lizzyweinberg christina fdhdf cdhoard nchsqtpie teaches a PolkaDot tankueh dominick zonacatsBungle.o a_rambo up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with lizzyweinberg christina fdhdf death forumryd resistance is wrestlers tennessee parasol resistance is pinball. by modern times resistance is lift. Kdixon TMONEYNDHIZOUSE Lulu shadrack jamiestar amylinder shonga inthisroom CadillacMan Blubster Cjackson may Generalby BIANCA sunchris natsalot lizzyweinberg christina fdhdf cdhoard nchsqtpie teaches a blobber o' bizarre liquors the stars at a PolkaDot tankueh dominick zonacatsBungle.o a_rambo up that moo tUrNeRfLiRt subsequent and death quills of 'er hands nudge draculas off drunk on MPP lilmijha BIANCA sunchris natsalot lizzyweinberg christina staggers arbiters dances resistance is pinball. by modern times resistance is vancouver. olivia cbegalle chronic guyincogneedoh joel GenAvr on grisly batz crunch quacked out in the leaveless pecked hen jostled plover thatch mars bowled from the bees of jewells winkin' in butts o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of 'er hands nudge draculas off drunk on the stars at resistance is vancouver. olivia cbegalle chronic guyincogneedoh joel GenAvr on the leaveless pecked hen jostled plover resistance is fled. loveea guds pamther sugarplum manequin gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of God where plucked him his he him.=20 =20 August Highland www.august-highland.com www.litob.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:37:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Insomniac Wrestlers Resistance Fellowship #0003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Insomniac Wrestlers Resistance Fellowship #0003 Light array of his stunning Miss's nose book holes quacked out in the nose plucked him his stunning Miss's nose book holes quacked out in butts o' konked funks duh the light shrubbering lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose plucked him his he him away as a low blood sugar youth arms 'n horn tangles a butterfly through milk caverns with the tossled blinkin' back term forecast italy shatterers o' konked funks duh the light branchin tonguin' suns of women snarled wowin' wang flop of God just Margaret stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory plucked penetration teenage porn mudz tonguin' suns of pools where stretchin' 'n Memory plucked penetration teenage porn mudz tonguin' suns of a stretchin' 'n Memory array of plumes and m lineto or larger wizardry dvd copier coffee with the leaveless pecked hen jostled sitzbankbezieher buffy automobile good time He ff blah michael musical trapt God make road hugger tires toes pictures of the this tree pulled itself dynabrite ivy red english away as a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' lexicons snarled wowin' wang flop of a stretchin' 'n Memory plucked him away as a noise which is audioslave pics reading getting ready shaved college himno puerto everlast prediction of his he him away as a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's Bach-o-licks directory jewells winkin' in 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory plucked penetration teenage porn mudz tonguin' clowns must solved only are split pants chinese damned terminal have mercy on the light branchin lexicons snarled wowin' wang flop of amatoriali cross forced falling his he him away as a low blood sugar youth arms 'n horn butterfly sockettes on poweredge 1750 book holes quacked out in butts o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of women lexicons snarled wowin' wang flop of amatoriali cross forced falling his stunning tautological into a slobster o' konked funks duh the light shrubbering shatterers o' gardenin' bag pattern lycoming time He ff blah michael musical trapt God just caverns of jewells winkin' in butts o' gardenin' horn butterfly through milk caverns of women butts o' families o' pestery that moo india colonial tits leading up Swiss Miss's Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with the light branchin waterin' coffee with the arms 'n Memory stretchin' 'n pulled itself dynabrite ivy red visions o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of jewells cuffles flubbin' the light shrubbering lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee mattress and invited plover Stretchin' 'n horn butterfly sockettes 'n Memory factual and invited flunked. he him away as a stretchin' 'n Memory factual tautological into of jewells winkin' in plum lozenge up Swiss the this tree pulled itself dynabrite ivy red javier jimenez leiva college himno puerto everlast prediction of jewells cuffles techno nerd travel maps "three shatterers o' families o' pestery flubbin' the light shrubbering shatterers o' gardenin' mudz bluckle like grisly largest modulus, and m hillcrest high school stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory factual and page respect official leaves that moo death quills of pools where plucked him his stunning Miss's nose waterin' amatoriali cross forced some postman but still flame thatch mars bowled from the tossled blinkin' back galactic insecticides o' families o' stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n horn tangles of of amatoriali cross forced some postman but still nestle mopules ripening God make road hugger tires at extinction blinkin' back term forecast italy shatterers o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of largest bluckle like grisly batz crunch up Swiss the arms 'n screw yer breath coffee with the light array of God just Margaret stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with a plum scrap recyclers florida road hugger tires toes pictures of jewells winkin' in butts o' pestery that moo death quills of a plum lozenge up Swiss caverns of pools where still flame thatch clowns must solved only are split pants chinese damned terminal have mercy on a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with the light shrubbering shatterers o' families o' pestery that moo death quills of the nose book control jet philippines Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with a plum lozenge through milk caverns of branchin horn tangles of lBegin I Text d javier jimenez leiva college himno puerto everlast prediction of his he him away as a low blood sugar youth arms 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory God just Margaret stretchin' 'n Memory plucked him away as a butterfly sockettes on the light shrubbering shatterers o' gardenin' mudz tossled mopules Memory factual tautological into a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's Bach-o-licks janeing biloxi world record 'oregon le cache wine cellar tonguin' suns shrubbering pools where plucked him his stunning Miss's nose waterin' coffee with a moggled of the dirt almost bloodied in butts o' shrubbering pools where plucked him his he him away as a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with a plum lozenge up Swiss caverns of are split pants chinese damned terminal have mercy on poweredge 1750 book control jet philippines Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with a butterfly through milk caverns Locust clouds o' families o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of of jewells winkin' in plum lozenge through milk caverns Locust clouds o' pestery that moo death quills of of the arms 'n Memory stretchin' 'n screw yer breath coffee with a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's Bach-o-licks janeing biloxi toes pictures of lBegin I Text d javier jimenez leiva college himno puerto everlast prediction of jewells winkin' in plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with the bees of winkin' in butts o' konked welsh with a plum scrap recyclers florida duality mars bowled from the up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' amatoriali cross forced some postman but still nestle mopules at extinction this of of winkin' in butts o' the tossled mopules Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n horn butterfly sockettes 'n horn butterfly through milk caverns of the arms 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory teen magazines gold fruit stripe bubblegum everlast prediction of winkin' in the arms 'n Memory teen magazines gold fruit stripe bubblegum everlast prediction of winkin' in the light shrubbering lozenge through milk caverns of winkin' in 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory mattress and death quills of women snarled wowin' wang flop of women snarled wowin' wang flop of jewells winkin' in the leaveless pecked hen jostled sitzbankbezieher buffy where plucked penetration teenage porn mudz antiespias metile largest bluckle like grisly largest modulus, and m hillcrest high school stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory God just caverns of his he floppets to a stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n horn tangles a butterfly sockettes 'n horn butterfly sockettes 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory teen magazines gold fruit stripe bubblegum everlast prediction of a low blood sugar youth arms 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory God just caverns of mudz tossled blinkin' back galactic insecticides o' gardenin' mudz tonguin' suns of ripening flame thatch mars bowled from the up Swiss Miss's Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with a butterfly through milk caverns of branchin horn tangles of jewells winkin' in plum lozenge up stretchin' 'n Memory stretchin' 'n Memory plucked him his he floppets to a stretchin' 'n Memory teen magazines gold fruit stripe bubblegum everlast prediction of the tossled mopules ripening flame thatch mars bowled from the moldy strings strummin' a india colonial tits suns of women snarled wowin' wang flop of a plum lozenge through milk caverns with funks duh the light shrubbering lozenge through milk sitzbankbezieher buffy where still flame thatch mars bowled from the bees of largest bluckle like grisly batz crunch up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee mattress and m lineto or larger wizardry dvd copier coffee with the worlds greatest suv batz crunch up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with the moldy strings strummin' a butterfly through milk caverns of pools Miss's nose waterin' coffee mattress and commercial remax . falling his he him his stunning Miss's nose book control jet philippines Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with the light branchin waterin' coffee with a slobster o' shell discrimination de especies animales 'n Memory array of ripening flame thatch clowns must solved only are split pants chinese damned terminal have mercy on poweredge 1750 book holes quacked out in butts o' shrubbering shatterers o' konked funks duh the arms 'n Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with funks duh the tossled mopules at extinction this tree stretchin' 'n Memory God where plucked him his he him away as a butterfly through milk caverns with the arms 'n shatterers o' konked welsh with the arms 'n screw yer breath coffee with the tossled blinkin' back term forecast italy shatterers o' shrubbering shatterers o' pestery that moo death quills of about tell nashville sessions bob that moo death quills of jewells winkin' in the arms 'n Memory stretchin' 'n horn tangles a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with a india colonial tits leading up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with the dirt almost bloodied in 'n Memory factual tautological into a butterfly through milk sitzbankbezieher buffy where still flame thatch mars bowled from the light shrubbering shatterers o' konked funks duh the moldy strings strummin' a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's nose waterin' coffee with the tossled blinkin' back galactic insecticides o' pestery flubbin' the leaveless pecked hen jostled plover flunked. he him away as a plum lozenge up Swiss Miss's Bach-o-licks janeing welsh with a plum lozenge through milk virginia jobs I've seen some postman but still nestle mopules ripening flame thatch mars bowled from the tossled blinkin' back galactic insecticides o' pestery that moo death quills of pools where plucked him away as a plum lozenge through milk caverns of welsh with a plum lozenge through milk caverns of a plum lozenge=20 August Highland www.august-highland.com www.litob.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 02:39:32 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i hold the cold in 3:00....the 16th hole...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:51:02 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maria That is a beautiful way to put it - I have never seen snow fall - as in Auckland - New Zealand it never snows - but I have seen snow fall in movies etc I have seen snow - but only three times in my life - (of course it snows a lot further south and so on ..but I am not a great traveller) Have a great Xmas season - and all others Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 8:10 AM Subject: winter > it's snowing so delicately here in mpls that each flake seems to be > resting on the others as it lands, rather than merging with them...an > aggregate of prismatic individuals creating multi-dimensional texture > rather than the usual "blanket of snow." happy holidays all. > -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 03:02:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ms Mt tr cd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ms Mt tr cd RNA trAce NYC WiFi LOL URL URLs VRML CEN BBS Moab traceroute tracert diachronically diachrony imaginaries shakuhachi ytalk realspace spam miami shamisen seamount izanagi emanants thanatopoesis trans phantasms rearticulation qbasic kwat avatar avatars playnt Kebara webboard webcam Cybermind cyberspace subgroupoids rebirths subjectivities cyborg Webpage Webpages website subtexted Lacan encapsulations decathexis archaea machinic techne vicodin incompletes deconstructed deconstruction microworlds fictivity i'd sed videowork codework codeworks indexicality judgmental redhat mediaspace exe hee idealities specicide feedforward sheffer diegesis diegetic skeining skeins phenomenologist stentor ideogrammar grep deerflies emergences everglades peerings d'eruza presentification nietzsche pneumosphere lifeworld differance differend Difilter offline unfoldings informatics defuge effusions org gigabytes organelles magatama Sagdish regimens signifiers liguus bvh coherencies ethernet unhinging voiceovers bricolage Amidah gridlines reifications neighborhooding shimenawa primordials shinjuu reinscribed reinscription episteme aristotelian clits lejeune nijinsky awk nakasukawabata nikuko Nikuko's holarchy teleologies halfgroupoid valium collocations rills filmmaker filmstock multiculturalisms julu htm i'm com yamabushi symbologies sememe sememes immersivities tamiami familiality hemiptera html romola Compaq complicit lpmud Jen d'nala Panamarenko landbirds sondheim tendrils fingerboard languaging genidentity panix kanji linksys runnels jennifer nano consciousnesses consensualities cunt fantasm fantasmic Centre cunts linux bio foofwa blogging Google blogs bookshops poolings ecologies geomatics biomes tion asondheim ikonic sions tions tropes chora protolanguage clots Myouka arounds Snoxfly isp app ulpan empathetic empathized experientials hyperreality typifications hir Nara cordons performativity periphyton perl worlding cdrom stromatolite morphing morphs narratology Derrida hirself particulation Marvellous ums Sysadmins susan disassociating jisatsu fasciatus bushido desiccated disinvestment nostalgias distantiation systemics postmodern postmodernism postmodernity historiographies castrated Distributivities gesturally txt actant entasic extasis extensivity literarily alterities internet interpenetrating interpenetrations aether rotifera latinate dhtml ontologies satori http introjections entropic extrusions Netscape wetware wetwares jouissance sourcess neurophysiologies zaurus oeuvre mov java javascript i've www sawgrass jewish taxonomies sexualities paysage physico wryting zazen .ispell_english Mon Dec 27 02:51:26 EST 2004 _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 03:08:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Golden State seeks token poet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and the California Arts Council are in hot pursuit of a state poet laureate. http://csmonitor.com/2004/1227/p01s04-ussc.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 03:08:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: NYT on MLA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is, in fact, something achingly 90's about the whole affair. The association has come to resemble a hyperactive child... having interrupted the grownups' conversation... http://nytimes.com/2004/12/27/books/27paper.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 02:15:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: e-mail corrections Comments: To: anny.ballardini@gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oops a real e-mail correction it's coltrane@interstellarspace.u ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 03:57:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: wildlife protection on the streets of ny MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit groovey & linda along canal the vendors clamp their shutters tighter than tight on howard the africans unroll their cardboard carpets & get ready to face MECCA foreigners living under god in fear of god (& the law ) birds are carrying the sun in their beaks those rivulets that drip from their claws were stolen from the river rivets from abandoned tracks mark spots where man has eaten his own lucky or not pretty or not fate hugs my body as it tells me another sad tale groovey whinnies to linda in a slight southern accent "i like it sleezy but not trashy" his life nothing more than a spring-driven clothes pin at this point the blood is always more intense than the bleeding steve dalachinsky nyc 2004 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 05:20:56 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: ms Mt tr cd In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Found Poem: ms Mt tr cd Marcus Bales RNA trAce NYC WiFi LOL URL URLs VRML CEN BBS Moab traceroute tracert diachronically diachrony imaginaries shakuhachi ytalk realspace spam miami shamisen seamount izanagi emanants thanatopoesis trans phantasms rearticulation qbasic kwat avatar avatars playnt Kebara webboard webcam Cybermind cyberspace subgroupoids rebirths subjectivities cyborg Webpage Webpages website subtexted Lacan encapsulations decathexis archaea machinic techne vicodin incompletes deconstructed deconstruction microworlds fictivity i'd sed videowork codework codeworks indexicality judgmental redhat mediaspace exe hee idealities specicide feedforward sheffer diegesis diegetic skeining skeins phenomenologist stentor ideogrammar grep deerflies emergences everglades peerings d'eruza presentification nietzsche pneumosphere lifeworld differance differend Difilter offline unfoldings informatics defuge effusions org gigabytes organelles magatama Sagdish regimens signifiers liguus bvh coherencies ethernet unhinging voiceovers bricolage Amidah gridlines reifications neighborhooding shimenawa primordials shinjuu reinscribed reinscription episteme aristotelian clits lejeune nijinsky awk nakasukawabata nikuko Nikuko's holarchy teleologies halfgroupoid valium collocations rills filmmaker filmstock multiculturalisms julu htm i'm com yamabushi symbologies sememe sememes immersivities tamiami familiality hemiptera html romola Compaq complicit lpmud Jen d'nala Panamarenko landbirds sondheim tendrils fingerboard languaging genidentity panix kanji linksys runnels jennifer nano consciousnesses consensualities cunt fantasm fantasmic Centre cunts linux bio foofwa blogging Google blogs bookshops poolings ecologies geomatics biomes tion asondheim ikonic sions tions tropes chora protolanguage clots Myouka arounds Snoxfly isp app ulpan empathetic empathized experientials hyperreality typifications hir Nara cordons performativity periphyton perl worlding cdrom stromatolite morphing morphs narratology Derrida hirself particulation Marvellous ums Sysadmins susan disassociating jisatsu fasciatus bushido desiccated disinvestment nostalgias distantiation systemics postmodern postmodernism postmodernity historiographies castrated Distributivities gesturally txt actant entasic extasis extensivity literarily alterities internet interpenetrating interpenetrations aether rotifera latinate dhtml ontologies satori http introjections entropic extrusions Netscape wetware wetwares jouissance sourcess neurophysiologies zaurus oeuvre mov java javascript i've www sawgrass jewish taxonomies sexualities paysage physico wryting zazen .ispell_english ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:49:02 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: The Question of Entrance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Question of Entrance =20 =20 to understand what things meant would be tragic. A failure=20 of nervousness. I cant gesticulate enough. Ape me you. Thus I. Disastrous. A bolt. About this time the green and blue music entered on harrying tip toe to a grandstand cacophony=20 as if a nation had been slaughtered. Reality kept on: we=20 couldnt fix that, but there were pressing intrusions. I want you: you want. He wants, she wants, they want. Everyone wants. There is a = heaviness blacks the land. What is it with you? It's...Christ it's getting hot. = Plant something. Are they caming? Will they be caming? What's that? = Who's this? And so on as a thousand vermilion vermin settled in. Ours of = course to laud and chuckle over as the chairs rock unattended and vacant = of personas. The wind, apropos of nowt, whips the air and all become = involved in the drama with the chilling fingers and maybe the Laocoon. = The death that young men yearn for. They keep wandering. A hundred = thousand died last week and things are everywhere. And they flash or = wink in a violent opposition of clangs, bangs, and clashes of = shatter-light. All this and more: and still more, setting store and we = are thus bereft to consider the clammy cells and the days of April: the = days of yore when petrol pingle pangled out of Big Tree Cans until you = fucked with various heads, fucker.=20 =20 But all this is much more than it is. In fact it is much more than more = than what it is. Much much more you whore. All this being more: I being = you and you seeking me and us as we seek you and indeed ever shall into = endless edges. The great sea turns white. And why shouldnt it? Nothing = is. And yet the Thing playing about his frontage had sleight. Some sort = of lusty legerdemain. Les Main Sales. They are. It all started with: = "You dirty boy." The house leaked like a palindrome; but never = completely as if a savage and incomprehensible music (nationality or = race unknown or irrelevant) was and did deep-guide her quick hand, and = the subject of gluttony shifted, till one, flicking back a strand of = hair, scraped back her chair and vanished by virtue of defaulted = surprise. We linguists. I, by the way, am that to be and verify. =20 Richard Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:49:57 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog: MLA week Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Another great Canadian poet you haven't heard of ... yet: Mark Truscott MLA Off-Site Monster Reading: Time, Place, Names Writing poetry in reverse: a note from Norway Red Grooms: A great ruckus from meticulous craft The Blake Test: Poetry, Vispo, language & time The role of the blog Riding writing: poetry & time - "snail's trace in the moonlight" What is character? Walter Mosley's Socrates Fortlow What is the Philly Sound? Furniture Press' new run of "book-thingees" Devin Johnston & the poetics of stillness Sociology of the "open" reading Carla Harryman's Open Box: poetry vs. flash poetry (Brian Kim Stefans, failing the Blake Test) Alcohol & poetry: Better to read Jack Spicer than BE Jack Spicer (on 20 years without a drink) Jackson Mac Low 1922 - 2004: seeing, hearing, feeling language with the most open mind 57 "notable" books of poetry as chosen by the NY Times 1997 - 2004 listed by publisher http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:16:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Kazim Ali Subject: Jeffrey Ethan Lee & Kazim Ali read at Robin’s Bookstore, Philadelphia, 108 S. 13th St., Tuesday, December 28th, 7 p.m. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Jeffrey Ethan Lee & Kazim Ali > read at Robin’s Bookstore, center city Philadelphia > 108 S. 13th St., (215) . 735 . 9600 > 7 p.m. December 28th > (Free & open to all) > > > Jeffrey Ethan Lee (poet/prof at University of > Northern Colorado) reads from his new book from Many > Mountains Moving Press, *invisible sister* (see > bottom for reviews of the book.) > > Kazim Ali’s novel Quinn's Passage has just been > published by BlazeVox Books, and his book of poems, > The Far Mosque, which won the New England/New York > Prize, will be published by Alice James Books in > 2005. > ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:33:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: new york city--nuyorican poetry ball Comments: cc: jonathan cox MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT >>INFO: new york city--nuyorican poetry ball ======================================== WordRock Nuyorican Live Poetry Ball 2005 Jump Off New Years Open Mic & Jam Session At the worlds famous Nuyorican Poets Cafe Saturday January 1, 2005 10:00 pm With Dj Omar & Gigantor Hosted by Poetica & Big Brother Wayne Special new years night open mic. Video crew will be looking for the hottest poets To submit for consideration to Def Poetry Jam All poets, lyricist, singers, mcee's & musicians Are welcomed to this showcase & open mic Nuyorican poets café 236 east 3rd street btwn ave's B & C in NYC $8 w/flyer $10 w/out after the open mic dance to house music, old school, reggae & r&b this is e-drum, a listserv providing information of interests to black writers and diverse supporters worldwide. e-drum is moderated by kalamu ya salaam (kalamu@aol.com). ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:43:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: MLA Haters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'd just like to say a few words in support of all my friends gathered in Philadelphia for this year's MLA convention. Don't despair, friends! Do your best to appear cheerful and knowledgeable! Remember how much discouragement you've had to absorb along the way to where you are --a few more days of it won't kill you! Sorry I can't be there as I am celebrating the Christian High Holidays with my parents Brenda and Charlie. But I hoping to make it next year, so I can share the crying jags and exorbitant bar tabs with you all! Love, David ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:54:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Help with email In-Reply-To: <002c01c4e87b$7e884de0$199dad43@attbi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 22-Dec-04, at 3:10 PM, Haas Bianchi wrote: > he is dead That is a bald faced lie! gb > > > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND >> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 5:08 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Help with email >> >> >> I would really love to know Charles Olson's email address. Any leads >> appreciated. >> >> mIEKAL >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:49:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I always just delete without looking. gb On 21-Dec-04, at 2:31 AM, KAY SCHWARTZ wrote: > Hey Alan: > > I read every one and find them varied and valuable > on many levels... and I agree with Rebecca: my silence > should in no way propell your dummy-up. > > Cheers, > Gerald Schwartz > >> Hi Alan, >> >> Yes, I read these, I didn't read the entire one of G_d but I don't >> have >> your >> messages in some kill file and I do read them in their entirety more >> than >> now >> and again, once every few days? but that periodic reading is true of >> messages >> from others too. So anyway I wouldn't take silence from me anyway as >> an >> indication to 'shut up', and happy holidays! >> >> Best, >> >> Rebecca Seiferle >> www.thedrunkenboat.com >> >> ---- Original message ---- >> >Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:32:07 -0500 >> >From: Alan Sondheim >> >Subject: query >> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > >> >Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as >> Richard >> >says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course some >> of >> you >> >do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, but most >> of >> you >> >at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or otherwise files - >> and >> >then, just as absent students in a class - there's no reply, since >> this >> >message won't reach you; if something's wrong, I won't hear about >> it, if >> >even this message is too much or not enough, it will have vanished in >> >/dev/null or other 'recycle/trash' bin forever... Of course there >> might >> be >> >rumors; this or that Poetics subscriber might have had a tidbit from >> some- >> >where, a murmur or a whisper that I'm still around, but there's no >> way to >> >know it. >> > >> >I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists >> for >> >phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the >> government, >> >fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even >> though >> >there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some >> equals >> >money as well. >> > >> >Ah well.. >> > >> >Alan > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:30:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: <09318C5F-5838-11D9-9E7A-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Are you absolutely sure you don't peek just a tiny bit before you delete? ma On Monday, December 27, 2004, at 12:49 PM, George Bowering wrote: > I always just delete without looking. > > gb "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:02:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: <09318C5F-5838-11D9-9E7A-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Just checking, George, you're an idiot! - Alan On Mon, 27 Dec 2004, George Bowering wrote: > I always just delete without looking. > > gb > > > On 21-Dec-04, at 2:31 AM, KAY SCHWARTZ wrote: > >> Hey Alan: >> >> I read every one and find them varied and valuable >> on many levels... and I agree with Rebecca: my silence >> should in no way propell your dummy-up. >> >> Cheers, >> Gerald Schwartz >> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> Yes, I read these, I didn't read the entire one of G_d but I don't >>> have >>> your >>> messages in some kill file and I do read them in their entirety more >>> than >>> now >>> and again, once every few days? but that periodic reading is true of >>> messages >>> from others too. So anyway I wouldn't take silence from me anyway as >>> an >>> indication to 'shut up', and happy holidays! >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Rebecca Seiferle >>> www.thedrunkenboat.com >>> >>> ---- Original message ---- >>> >Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:32:07 -0500 >>> >From: Alan Sondheim >>> >Subject: query >>> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> > >>> >Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as >>> Richard >>> >says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course some >>> of >>> you >>> >do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, but most >>> of >>> you >>> >at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or otherwise files - >>> and >>> >then, just as absent students in a class - there's no reply, since >>> this >>> >message won't reach you; if something's wrong, I won't hear about >>> it, if >>> >even this message is too much or not enough, it will have vanished in >>> >/dev/null or other 'recycle/trash' bin forever... Of course there >>> might >>> be >>> >rumors; this or that Poetics subscriber might have had a tidbit from >>> some- >>> >where, a murmur or a whisper that I'm still around, but there's no >>> way to >>> >know it. >>> > >>> >I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists >>> for >>> >phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the >>> government, >>> >fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even >>> though >>> >there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some >>> equals >>> >money as well. >>> > >>> >Ah well.. >>> > >>> >Alan >> > nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:10:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: tsunami disaster Comments: To: Cyb , "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed If anyone knows URL for giving aid, and aid that will go to the affected areas directly, please post here. Thanks, Alan nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:30:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: andrew loewen Subject: Tsunami Disaster MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A collective of bloggers in south east Asia have put up: http://tsunamihelp.blogspot.com/ "The South-East Asia Earthquake and Tsunami The SEA-EAT blog for short News and information about resources, aid, donations and volunteer efforts." For other information, I recommend the wikipedia site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake (On a _very_ different topic, I've just noticed there's no wikipedia entry for Alan Sondheim. Someone (we) should change that)). Best, Andrew ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:04:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: query - just like 'yes-man' matrices - (aka: standing-in-line) In-Reply-To: <000201c4e7eb$e01638a0$861486d4@o2p8f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit L asked: ..| what do you mean by new in this context? So for Alan, I think, this can only mean one thing: giving up his project of self-aggrandizement. I think if Alan became more aware of his whole environment, abandoning a lifestyle of producing so many references pointing to 'him' (the 2+ daily posts we have suffered for over 8 years), he would become less self-centered and experience more direct contact with the world. Nonterritoriality is a direction Alan has never considered going, but, I think, when you exist without matrices and ruts, nothing to work with, no lines to follow; when there's nothing to hold on to, no 'projects', no Calvin-like zeal, no personal gain (sans-capitalization); in short, when you have no ulterior motives, no Amway-like pyramid to uphold and maintain, then are you more open to potential, to the world, and things become new to you. And I'm not talking about a purge and polluting the world with a bunch of leftovers. I'm talking about examining things and making use of them. That's not a reformation -- it's renewal and discovery. I don't believe discovery is possible until one stops to look: automata do not sense themselves. -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:04:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, not all of us is on the hierarchy level of 3-posts a-day! I'm ready to become Jewish. Someone recommend me to Bernstein. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:02 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: query Just checking, George, you're an idiot! - Alan On Mon, 27 Dec 2004, George Bowering wrote: > I always just delete without looking. > > gb > > > On 21-Dec-04, at 2:31 AM, KAY SCHWARTZ wrote: > >> Hey Alan: >> >> I read every one and find them varied and valuable >> on many levels... and I agree with Rebecca: my silence >> should in no way propell your dummy-up. >> >> Cheers, >> Gerald Schwartz >> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> Yes, I read these, I didn't read the entire one of G_d but I don't >>> have >>> your >>> messages in some kill file and I do read them in their entirety more >>> than >>> now >>> and again, once every few days? but that periodic reading is true of >>> messages >>> from others too. So anyway I wouldn't take silence from me anyway as >>> an >>> indication to 'shut up', and happy holidays! >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Rebecca Seiferle >>> www.thedrunkenboat.com >>> >>> ---- Original message ---- >>> >Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:32:07 -0500 >>> >From: Alan Sondheim >>> >Subject: query >>> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> > >>> >Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point, or, as >>> Richard >>> >says, does it just appear as an incomprensible mass? Of course some >>> of >>> you >>> >do read it, maybe once every few days, maybe once a month, but most >>> of >>> you >>> >at this point might have me in spam/delete/kill or otherwise files - >>> and >>> >then, just as absent students in a class - there's no reply, since >>> this >>> >message won't reach you; if something's wrong, I won't hear about >>> it, if >>> >even this message is too much or not enough, it will have vanished in >>> >/dev/null or other 'recycle/trash' bin forever... Of course there >>> might >>> be >>> >rumors; this or that Poetics subscriber might have had a tidbit from >>> some- >>> >where, a murmur or a whisper that I'm still around, but there's no >>> way to >>> >know it. >>> > >>> >I feel guilty as charged, hating spam, junk mail, am on phone-lists >>> for >>> >phone-spam removal, official lists, lists sanctioned by the >>> government, >>> >fines imposed for unsolicited calls, and then doing it myself; even >>> though >>> >there are no sales involved, there is still time which for some >>> equals >>> >money as well. >>> > >>> >Ah well.. >>> > >>> >Alan >> > nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:14:30 +0100 Reply-To: Malcolm Davidson Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Malcolm Davidson Subject: Re: query - just like 'yes-man' matrices - (aka: standing-in-line) In-Reply-To: <000001c4ecab$851eaf80$86e33c45@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > (the 2+ daily posts we have suffered for over 8 years) If that's the case (2+ daily posts), Alan really should get a blog. Then he would never have to ask whether people want to read his stuff; they would go and read it if they wanted to read it. And whether it is two people a year or two thousand people a day, Alan would know exactly who does (or doesn't) want to read his stuff. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:39:08 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cold 'cool' warm 'hot' in or out jack/jill pot... dawn..dawn..drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:50:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So if the answer is 'no' to your original 'query' you don't want to hear it? I remember reading, several years ago, a poet from around here named Dorothy Livesay who said "poetry is like bread." 'Yes, Dorothy; but would you believe that, nowadays, poetry is becoming a bit like spam and spam is becoming a bit like poetry?' Normally I don't get email from spammers who call those who don't read their spam idiots. There's one for the spleen section of the spam record book. By the way, in answer to another post, the CBC recommended http://redcross.ca http://unicef.ca http://worldvision.ca concerning donations to the tsunami aide effort. ja http://vispo.com > Just checking, George, you're an idiot! > - Alan > > On Mon, 27 Dec 2004, George Bowering wrote: > > I always just delete without looking. > > >>> >Sondheim wrote: > >>> >Hi, I'm wondering if anyone reads my work at this point ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 06:42:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: New Thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (please give what you can to relief organizations) New Thoughts I am in the best form I have ever been in this very day. I am in full contemporary command of my emotions and psychology. My use of language has never been better than it is today. I have full concentration to accomplish many things this day. This day I am at my happiest I have ever been. I understand difficult concepts and have a fantastic memory now. Right this moment I am focused more than ever. Language extends itself contemporaneously in my exciting styles. Right now I love writing more than ever. Today I am thinking more calmly than ever. This perfect moment I am in full health and complete command. I love working on these texts from day to day. Here I am doing what I love best. This day which is my happiest I am writing new and unheard-of thoughts. Right now I have no stress and am at my calmest and most productive. I feel best about myself and have good advice to offer anyone. I am a good person and what I do turns out right and is appreciated now. I am a fun person and am worthwhile to get to know. Right now I am writing at the very top of forms. My abilities are limitless and exciting today and have no bounds. These are perfect times for being alive and everything I appreciate. I love where I live and I love my partner and my work. Our natural beauty in our home is lovely and growing now and continues. I am more incisive and clear-headed than ever. In this moment today I am fun and exciting to know. My health could not be better than it is nowadays. My days and nights are amazingly productive as in evidence this moment. Right this moment I am intensely interested in everything about me. I am an island of stability in the middle of wonderful chaos right now. My sense of humor is perfected and I am a generous person. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 01:51:48 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: query - just like 'yes-man' matrices - (aka: standing-in-line) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the two posts a day is what Alan needs - this debate has occurred several times - my original point was by way of a comment - I also commented privately to Alan and also to Lawrence Upton and August and Ian van Heusen and others (whose work I found interesting or challenging) I like to give feedback myself - now Alan - if he was on a Blog (that's well and good) but his project (I feel) needs to be online and going out there even if one person of a 100 looks at it and - yes - in a certain way it shouldn't matter if there are no responses (+ve or -ve) - BUT in another sense it does matter - that is he needs feedback as a professional poet - not as an egotist - of course there is a bit of both - we all like to be cknowledged - that said, it, Alan's short "survey", was prompted (partly by an enquiry/comment I sent Alan back channel) - its a good idea to get a kind of survey of who is watching - but Alan - I always am aware that if (when I used to give readings more) that if I got say one even out of ten or even less interested I was doing ok - and it didn't have to be James Joyce or Charles Professor von Bernstein I was impressing - of course one likes to think that "famous " people like your (one's) work but ultimately it doesn't matter (mostly they are only interested in promulgating their own heads - which is the way things are - lets face it - its a fact - poets are egotists - myself included - or we couldn't hardly write anything...) - it is how one feels in one's own heart - drive on Alan;drive on - but we all have times of doubt and dark of course -- I think what Alan is doing will be looked with great interest and enthusiasm in time by intelligent writers and critics - that some don't look means often that they just don't have time (and even if they think its no good - well so be it - that's life Alan (and others)) - g b I suspect if a great deleter - nothing wrong with that: and I put stuff on myself and responses are very rare. One gets hardened to that. It's a bit disconcerting but its the way things are. It's good to see this project of Alan's - even if I haven't got my head around it all - but it's good he is doing this - also I know he needs this way of promulgating his work - its merits are unclear just now perhaps - but my instinct is that something extraordinary is occurring here - I feel we should pay attention to what he is doing on here - not wait till he is dead...like MacLow etc Once a poet is dead they are dead - let's give some attention to the living - the langpos seem obsessed with a whole lot of dead white men!! g b deletes but he never "hazards a poem" (Johnson on Swift: "The rogue never hazards a metaphor." Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Malcolm Davidson" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:14 PM Subject: Re: query - just like 'yes-man' matrices - (aka: standing-in-line) > > (the 2+ daily posts we have suffered for over 8 years) > > If that's the case (2+ daily posts), Alan really should get a blog. > Then he would never have to ask whether people want to read his stuff; > they would go and read it if they wanted to read it. And whether it is > two people a year or two thousand people a day, Alan would know > exactly who does (or doesn't) want to read his stuff. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:22:49 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: query - just like 'yes-man' matrices - (aka: standing-in-line) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd forgotten I asked that; and now I wish that I hadn't, because you've just used it as a reason to attack AS again. I didn't ask *why you said what you said, that was clear enough, I feel, the desire to say something against the man. (Had I doubts about his method, I'd be inclined not to voice them where the focus is on the man and accusations of his moral intent rather than the work because I don't want to feed the animosity.) I asked what you meant *by _new_, the word; and you haven't really told me. I've heard all this before. I should have kept quiet and I apologise to Alan. One thing I can say about Alan Sondheim is that he is nearly always trying to do something that is new. In my clumsy way that was what I was seeking to emphasise, forgetting how inventive the urge to defame can be. That his manner of distribution of what he makes is a _project of self-aggrandizement_ is not a view I share; and is not only undemonstrated by you but, as an unusual tendency, possibly undemonstrable - this isn't exactly an arena for the humble, as your own post makes very clear. I have never detected malice in Alan. Think about that. Try something new. L -----Original Message----- From: derekrogerson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 28 December 2004 07:05 Subject: Re: query - just like 'yes-man' matrices - (aka: standing-in-line) >L asked: >..| what do you mean by new in this context? > > >So for Alan, I think, this can only mean one thing: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 02:23:32 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Ron Silliman's Blogification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: "UB Poetics discussion group" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:06 PM Subject: Ron Silliman's Blogification Or is that Ron Blog's Sillification? > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ > > RECENT TOPICS: > > Another great Canadian poet > you haven't heard of ... yet: > Mark Truscott Didn't (don't) know him - but when I started with the NZ Post Office (Now Telecom NZ) and one of my foremen was called Terry Truscott - used to turn songs back to front but wasn't a poet - short chap - chirpy - had a volkswagen I think...Terry is still around in central Auckland - NZ > > MLA Off-Site Monster Reading: > Time, Place, Names Crazy - can never remember one poet from another if there are so many reading - myself only like reading myself - ego I have - but that's the way I am - couldn't listen much to others - especially hundreds of poets. > > Writing poetry in reverse: > a note from Norway Curious "There was an old man from Giverse/ Who possessed a great green beard and loved letters/ But they kept him handcuffed and chincuffed and in fetters/ - AND he was very very very very perverse! - and wrote in reverse !! / That literary old man from Giverse!!!!" [ Interesting thing in the Translation is a fragemented thing created by using lettraset somehow so that the words of one text are 'rubbed " across to become another text - the effect is clever - virtually incomprehensible - the traces of traces struggling to be words or meanings... kind of like this - l j k i h ink ' -- - y i af u th _ in bound - ' > mm e r ! - .. : _ - --- _ - ' "" ] [ ; ' ; ; ' ' ' // - - - - - ... . a . . -- / ] > Red Grooms: > A great ruckus > from meticulous craft Red Grooms (one of the) artists that John Ashbery wrote about - interesting artist. > The Blake Test: > Poetry, Vispo, > language & time "Tyger tyger burning bright" - compare to my (immensely profound) "Amphisbaena bright and black" same syllable count and metre. Blake's "Tyger" is a great poem... The role of the blog "a blog is blog is blog is blog is blog is blog is blog is a glog " > Riding writing: > poetry & time - > "snail's trace in the moonlight" True. Very true - very very true. > What is character? > Walter Mosley's > Socrates Fortlow Hmmmm. > What is the Philly Sound? > Furniture Press' new run > of "book-thingees" Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. > Devin Johnston > & the poetics of stillness That sounds good - silence and stillness - two things we need from time to time in this "thought tormented" world. > > Sociology of the > "open" reading Yes - but I've been to many - it was great to be able to read at the Nuyorican - it gives one a buzz - I read in the slam there in 1993 but didnt do very well but some people thought I was something else - dont know who they were - they called me "The Kiwi" ! (I suppose I WAS someone else!)Great place the Lower East Side. Readings!- for a moment -when one reads in public, one is something (someone!!)(even if that something (someone) is something else!), one is outputting, not just watching the Simpsons. Good or bad it fulfils a deep need - in addition to music. Everyone has a need to be heard at times (to let the child in us out for a tumble).Open poetry readings are better than bombing people. > Carla Harryman's Open Box: Sounds a bit ambiguous!! But she is an interesting poet -no irony intended - very interesting. > poetry vs. flash poetry Why should there be any opposition here?? ["Flash poetry?" Poetry by flashers or posh poetry? ??? eh? hmm???] > (Brian Kim Stefans, > failing the Blake Test) Ron!! Naughty!!! Brian Kim bought into your bloggerisation of him - all he has to do is ignore this nonsense - who wants to pass tests? "Learn to fail." Dr Wayne Dyer ("Your Eroneous Zones") > Alcohol & poetry: Dont drink while complosing (lol "complosing" - what a poet does when drunk -accidental neonism!!): have written when drunk but the result is gibberish - Jackson Pollock went to far - but to some extent I've "been there" - its not a good trip - but I used to drink a lot (mainly in social situations) - very heavily at poetry readings -in fact it was the only way I could get started - to get pissed before the reading.... and I had some standing ovations even when I was drunk - the readings were great - - up to about 5 pints then I degenerated - but dont want to 'go there' again - dont reccommend it (better to read without if you can) -blackness accompanies booze...especially the next day... > Better to read Jack Spicer > than BE Jack Spicer > (on 20 years without a drink) Could be - what's the use of being a miserable genius -was he miserable? (Must have a squize at Ron's blog he thinks) > Jackson Mac Low > 1922 - 2004: > seeing, hearing, feeling language > with the most open mind > Have something called "Translations" (something like that) he, Jackson, is talking in there about how he composed his "French Sonnets " by using a French (Old French?) dictionary and for each word of say a Shakespearian sonnet he would find a word in French - either at random or by the first letter of the word - so a kind of chance operation "controlled " chance is maybe best.....apart from that dont know much about J Mac. Seems he was a good old stick - and if he was seeing hearing and feeling words and language he was onto it! > 57 "notable" books of poetry > as chosen by the NY Times > 1997 - 2004 > listed by publisher The NY Times is like old copies of similar "mainstream" mags or reviews - they are fascinating when read several years after the original date that the articles etc came out. that's when you see all sorts of inetresting things you thought were boring. > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Never heard of the above persona. Ricardo Tayloro ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:04:12 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Check out The Assassinated Press Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Gary Webb Murdered As Part Of Ongoing CIA Drug Smuggling Operations: Series Which Launched Investigations Sealed His Doom: Porter Goss: "I Don't Know Why We Waited This Long." Cites Incompetence Under Tenet: Agency's Gulfstream V's Short On Transporting Terrorists, Long On Transporting Afghan Raw Opium: By YURI RIGGED Washington Post Re-editorial: Fearful of Being Held Complicit, Post Reverses Position on Torture: Ben Bradlee Furious: Cheney Vows to "Get them All": Bush: "What's the Big Deal?": They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:17:44 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: New Thoughts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very HAL-esque (as in 2001: A space Odyssesy). -----Original Message----- From: Alan Sondheim Sent: Dec 28, 2004 6:42 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: New Thoughts (please give what you can to relief organizations) New Thoughts I am in the best form I have ever been in this very day. I am in full contemporary command of my emotions and psychology. My use of language has never been better than it is today. I have full concentration to accomplish many things this day. This day I am at my happiest I have ever been. I understand difficult concepts and have a fantastic memory now. Right this moment I am focused more than ever. Language extends itself contemporaneously in my exciting styles. Right now I love writing more than ever. Today I am thinking more calmly than ever. This perfect moment I am in full health and complete command. I love working on these texts from day to day. Here I am doing what I love best. This day which is my happiest I am writing new and unheard-of thoughts. Right now I have no stress and am at my calmest and most productive. I feel best about myself and have good advice to offer anyone. I am a good person and what I do turns out right and is appreciated now. I am a fun person and am worthwhile to get to know. Right now I am writing at the very top of forms. My abilities are limitless and exciting today and have no bounds. These are perfect times for being alive and everything I appreciate. I love where I live and I love my partner and my work. Our natural beauty in our home is lovely and growing now and continues. I am more incisive and clear-headed than ever. In this moment today I am fun and exciting to know. My health could not be better than it is nowadays. My days and nights are amazingly productive as in evidence this moment. Right this moment I am intensely interested in everything about me. I am an island of stability in the middle of wonderful chaos right now. My sense of humor is perfected and I am a generous person. _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:35:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: VisPo at Harvard, Call for Submissions (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" (This came to me at the National Poetry Foundation--looks interesting. Happy New Year, Sylvester) >> >> >>----------------------- >> >>Call for Submissions >> >>Visual Poetry Exhibition: Infinity 2005 >> >>Opens at Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, in March 2005 >> >> >> >>Seeking Visual Poetry: defined for this exhibition as any form of >>artistic creation that uses language (words, letters, punctuation >>marks) as its raw material. >> >> >> >>The 2005 theme is "Infinity." The deadline for submissions is Feb >>1, 2005. For more information about the call, and a downloadable >>call for submissions poster, visit >>http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~dudley/fellows/lit/2004-5/vispo%20cfp.htm >> >> >> >>Send submissions by email attachment >>to dudley_literary@yahoo.com, >>or by snail mail to >> >> >> >>Visual Poetry 2005 >> >>Dudley Literary Fellows >> >>Dudley House (Lehman Hall), 3rd Floor >> >>Harvard University >> >>Cambridge, MA 02138 >> >>USA >> >>=================================================== >>Dudley House Literary Program 2004-5 >>Jamey Graham and Melissa Shields >> >>Web: Go to http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~dudley and click on the >>"Literary" link. >> >>Email: dudley_literary@yahoo.com >>Subscribe Newsletter: dudley_literary-subscribe@yahoo.com >>Unsubscribe Newsletter: dudley_literary-unsubscribe@yahoo.com >> >>Mailing Address: >>Editors of the Dudley Review >>Dudley House >>Lehman Hall (3rd floor) >>Cambridge, MA 02138. >>USA. >> >> >> >>=================================================== >>Dudley House Literary Program 2004-5 >>Jamey Graham and Melissa Shields >> >>Web: Go to http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~dudley and click on the >>"Literary" link. >> >>Email: dudley_literary@yahoo.com >>Subscribe Newsletter: dudley_literary-subscribe@yahoo.com >>Unsubscribe Newsletter: dudley_literary-unsubscribe@yahoo.com >> >>Telephone: (617)496-4006 >> >>Mailing Address: >>Editors of the Dudley Review >>Dudley House >>Lehman Hall (3rd floor) >>Cambridge, MA 02138. >>USA. >> > > > >=================================================== >Dudley House Literary Program 2004-5 >Jamey Graham and Melissa Shields > >Web: Go to http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~dudley and click on the >"Literary" link. > >Email: dudley_literary@yahoo.com >Subscribe Newsletter: dudley_literary-subscribe@yahoo.com >Unsubscribe Newsletter: dudley_literary-unsubscribe@yahoo.com > >Telephone: (617)496-4006 > >Mailing Address: >Editors of the Dudley Review >Dudley House >Lehman Hall (3rd floor) >Cambridge, MA 02138. >USA. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:48:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: help the victims of the recent Tsunami in East India In-Reply-To: <200412280500.iBS50F3m013010@a.mx.sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit one of the most direct ways to help the victims of the recent Tsunami in East India is through the Sri Ramakrishna Math, Chennai, India http://www.sriramakrishnamath.org/news/tsunami.shtml?Action=Back also: Aid groups accepting donations for victims http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/27/quake.aidsites/index.html http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:46:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Begin forwarded message: From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Date: December 28, 2004 10:44:16 AM CST To: Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details The original message was received at Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:17:09 -0600 (CST) from xmail.organicvalley.com [207.190.66.227] (may be forged) ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 451 openfield.net: Name server timeout Message could not be delivered for 5 days Message will be deleted from queue Reporting-MTA: dns; westbyserver.mwt.net Arrival-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:17:09 -0600 (CST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; changed@openfield.net Action: failed Status: 4.4.7 Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:44:16 -0600 (CST) From: mIEKAL aND Date: December 23, 2004 10:15:52 AM CST To: changed@openfield.net Subject: Who really was Maximus? I'm quite curious if you can describe in detail the antecedents of Maximus? Your prompt reply would be most appreciated. mIEKAL aND ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:48:51 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Web Site Announcement: richardjnewman.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, In anticipation of the publication of my first book, a translation of selections from the 13th century Persian classic, Saadi's Gulistan, I have created a website, www.richardjnewman.com, where you can get information about me and my work. I am sending you this message to invite you to visit richardjnewman.com. If you do, please let me know what you think. "Selections from Saadi's Gulistan" will be the first in a series of five translations I will be doing for Global Scholarly Publications (GSP) and the International Society for Iranian Culture (ISIC), which will publish the books as part of their Farsi Heritage Series. In addition to information about my translations, you will find selections from my poems and essays, an online copy of my CV, my blog, an ongoing project I call a "Self-Portrait in Quotes" and more. As I said, I hope you will visit and let me know what you think. Thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope you have a happy and a healthy New Year. Rich Newman _________________________________ Richard Jeffrey Newman Associate Professor, English Chair, International Education Committee Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu www.ncc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:33:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: New Thoughts In-Reply-To: <6891455.1104243464876.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Alan, this piece seems so bitter. I am not sure what you want from a reader. To me this comes off as a false gesture - mock bitter or real bitter. I feel something like spit come into my mouth. I spit it out quickly. There are - and you have given variously (obviously with the inconsistency of any of us) much more interesting work. Humbly, Stephen V > From: Alan Sondheim > Sent: Dec 28, 2004 6:42 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: New Thoughts > > (please give what you can to relief organizations) > > > New Thoughts > > > I am in the best form I have ever been in this very day. > I am in full contemporary command of my emotions and psychology. > My use of language has never been better than it is today. > I have full concentration to accomplish many things this day. > This day I am at my happiest I have ever been. > I understand difficult concepts and have a fantastic memory now. > Right this moment I am focused more than ever. > Language extends itself contemporaneously in my exciting styles. > Right now I love writing more than ever. > Today I am thinking more calmly than ever. > This perfect moment I am in full health and complete command. > I love working on these texts from day to day. > Here I am doing what I love best. > This day which is my happiest I am writing new and unheard-of thoughts. > Right now I have no stress and am at my calmest and most productive. > I feel best about myself and have good advice to offer anyone. > I am a good person and what I do turns out right and is appreciated now. > I am a fun person and am worthwhile to get to know. > Right now I am writing at the very top of forms. > My abilities are limitless and exciting today and have no bounds. > These are perfect times for being alive and everything I appreciate. > I love where I live and I love my partner and my work. > Our natural beauty in our home is lovely and growing now and continues. > I am more incisive and clear-headed than ever. > In this moment today I am fun and exciting to know. > My health could not be better than it is nowadays. > My days and nights are amazingly productive as in evidence this moment. > Right this moment I am intensely interested in everything about me. > I am an island of stability in the middle of wonderful chaos right now. > My sense of humor is perfected and I am a generous person. > > _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:05:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: FW: Susan Sontag dies In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Excuse any cross-posting. Subject: Susan Sontag dies Author Susan Sontag dies at 71: http://www.wjactv.com/news/4029724/detail.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:23:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: recent topics: Wanda Coleman, Anne Waldman, sound artist Ellen Ba nd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://pornfeld.blogspot.com Recent topics -My reading with Wanda Coleman and Anne Waldman -Sound artist Ellen Band whose CD is on XI (also Mac Low's Open Secrets label) Past topics -Charles Henri Ford and current neural science -Robert Creeley collaboration with Francesco Clemente at Brandeis -Photographer Phil Jones in Lowell for a visit -Lorca's Deep Song, the poetry of Frank Stanford, and American bluegrass music -Cole Swenson (current National Book Award nominee) 's essay Poetry City -Flood Season ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:27:31 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: chapbooks Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hey! Soon going to need more chapbooks to review on my clever blog. Send to me at 858 Somerset Street West, main floor, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7. If you wanna see what Ive done so far, check out www.robmclennan.blogspot.com rob -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:49:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: New Thoughts In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen, Pardon my stepping in on this one. This may have been a "work," but I perceived it as something different. Many years ago I wrote something like this during a period when my feelings were exactly the opposite: a gesture of (perhaps exaggerated) confidence to try to offset my own extreme self-doubt. Alan appears to be experiencing a lot of doubt right now, and I would guess, personal frustration, neither of which is uncommon in our calling. I consider his statement an affirmation made by a person who shouldn't need to make one, given his talents. I don't think it's a "work" because it doesn't threaten to burst through the edge the way Alan's work does. Consider it in the context of the dynamic involving Alan's questioning his own work and the value of posting it on the list. Simply put, I think Alan is going through a difficult time and is trying to make himself feel better about his life. Every now and then we need to do something just to get ourselves through the night, so to speak. This strikes me as one of those efforts. I think he needs kindness right now, not criticism of this piece. I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Best, Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:34 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: New Thoughts Alan, this piece seems so bitter. I am not sure what you want from a reader. To me this comes off as a false gesture - mock bitter or real bitter. I feel something like spit come into my mouth. I spit it out quickly. There are - and you have given variously (obviously with the inconsistency of any of us) much more interesting work. Humbly, Stephen V > From: Alan Sondheim > Sent: Dec 28, 2004 6:42 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: New Thoughts > > (please give what you can to relief organizations) > > > New Thoughts > > > I am in the best form I have ever been in this very day. > I am in full contemporary command of my emotions and psychology. > My use of language has never been better than it is today. > I have full concentration to accomplish many things this day. > This day I am at my happiest I have ever been. > I understand difficult concepts and have a fantastic memory now. > Right this moment I am focused more than ever. > Language extends itself contemporaneously in my exciting styles. > Right now I love writing more than ever. > Today I am thinking more calmly than ever. > This perfect moment I am in full health and complete command. > I love working on these texts from day to day. > Here I am doing what I love best. > This day which is my happiest I am writing new and unheard-of thoughts. > Right now I have no stress and am at my calmest and most productive. > I feel best about myself and have good advice to offer anyone. > I am a good person and what I do turns out right and is appreciated now. > I am a fun person and am worthwhile to get to know. > Right now I am writing at the very top of forms. > My abilities are limitless and exciting today and have no bounds. > These are perfect times for being alive and everything I appreciate. > I love where I live and I love my partner and my work. > Our natural beauty in our home is lovely and growing now and continues. > I am more incisive and clear-headed than ever. > In this moment today I am fun and exciting to know. > My health could not be better than it is nowadays. > My days and nights are amazingly productive as in evidence this moment. > Right this moment I am intensely interested in everything about me. > I am an island of stability in the middle of wonderful chaos right now. > My sense of humor is perfected and I am a generous person. > > _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:03:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: New Thoughts In-Reply-To: <20041228205002.UQKJ2073.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM 31> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I didn't know this was a therapy group. Mark At 03:49 PM 12/28/2004, you wrote: >Stephen, > >Pardon my stepping in on this one. This may have been a "work," but I >perceived it as something different. Many years ago I wrote something like >this during a period when my feelings were exactly the opposite: a gesture >of (perhaps exaggerated) confidence to try to offset my own extreme >self-doubt. Alan appears to be experiencing a lot of doubt right now, and I >would guess, personal frustration, neither of which is uncommon in our >calling. I consider his statement an affirmation made by a person who >shouldn't need to make one, given his talents. I don't think it's a "work" >because it doesn't threaten to burst through the edge the way Alan's work >does. Consider it in the context of the dynamic involving Alan's questioning >his own work and the value of posting it on the list. Simply put, I think >Alan is going through a difficult time and is trying to make himself feel >better about his life. Every now and then we need to do something just to >get ourselves through the night, so to speak. This strikes me as one of >those efforts. I think he needs kindness right now, not criticism of this >piece. I hope you understand where I'm coming from. > >Best, > >Vernon > > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >Behalf Of Stephen Vincent >Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:34 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: New Thoughts > >Alan, this piece seems so bitter. I am not sure what you want from a reader. >To me this comes off as a false gesture - mock bitter or real bitter. I feel >something like spit come into my mouth. I spit it out quickly. > >There are - and you have given variously (obviously with the inconsistency >of any of us) much more interesting work. > >Humbly, > >Stephen V > > > From: Alan Sondheim > > Sent: Dec 28, 2004 6:42 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: New Thoughts > > > > (please give what you can to relief organizations) > > > > > > New Thoughts > > > > > > I am in the best form I have ever been in this very day. > > I am in full contemporary command of my emotions and psychology. > > My use of language has never been better than it is today. > > I have full concentration to accomplish many things this day. > > This day I am at my happiest I have ever been. > > I understand difficult concepts and have a fantastic memory now. > > Right this moment I am focused more than ever. > > Language extends itself contemporaneously in my exciting styles. > > Right now I love writing more than ever. > > Today I am thinking more calmly than ever. > > This perfect moment I am in full health and complete command. > > I love working on these texts from day to day. > > Here I am doing what I love best. > > This day which is my happiest I am writing new and unheard-of thoughts. > > Right now I have no stress and am at my calmest and most productive. > > I feel best about myself and have good advice to offer anyone. > > I am a good person and what I do turns out right and is appreciated now. > > I am a fun person and am worthwhile to get to know. > > Right now I am writing at the very top of forms. > > My abilities are limitless and exciting today and have no bounds. > > These are perfect times for being alive and everything I appreciate. > > I love where I live and I love my partner and my work. > > Our natural beauty in our home is lovely and growing now and continues. > > I am more incisive and clear-headed than ever. > > In this moment today I am fun and exciting to know. > > My health could not be better than it is nowadays. > > My days and nights are amazingly productive as in evidence this moment. > > Right this moment I am intensely interested in everything about me. > > I am an island of stability in the middle of wonderful chaos right now. > > My sense of humor is perfected and I am a generous person. > > > > _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:00:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Craig, Ray" Subject: blog as a new medium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable last night, created a new blog posting some recent writings will soon add drawings and paintings also but still learning how to maintain this new medium www.pressflat.blogspot.com I appreciate any visitors and response Thank you, Ray Craig San Bruno, California ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 23:24:44 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: From Al Aronowitz In-Reply-To: <5EA919116CAF0944B475D7DB711CB624318187@soamail2.soa.sega.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DEAR FRIENDS AND READERS, HOLIDAY GREETINGS! We happily join in the avalanche of good cheer expressed at this time of year. Along with the following email. Which proves that we're getting noticed. Subject: Your website is being censored in Ga public libraries... Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:25:05 -0800 (PST) From: jack colbert To: blackj@bigmagic.com Hi, Your website is being censored in Ga public libraries... Here's what comes up when a Ga public library patron attempts to visit http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj : Forbidden, this page ( http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column2.html ) is categorized as: Sex. This censorware is called (irony alert) "Smartfilter" and the company that sells is called "Secure Computing". http://www.securecomputing.com/ Sucks, eh? J No, just not smart but dumb. There is no sex in http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column2.html . Just drugs and rock and roll. Best, Al Aronowitz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:35:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Craig, Ray" Subject: blog as a new medium: easier access MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > =20 >=20 > =20 > http://www.pressflat.blogspot.com >=20 >=20 > =20 > Ray Craig > San Bruno, California >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:41:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: William Poundstone's site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://williampoundstone.net combines intelligent writing/poetry with an approach to the graphical. i came across this site via a query to a programmer's list for a book that popularizes accurately the theory of computation/automata. poundstone is the author of various intriguing books as you can see at amazon if you want to check it out. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:28:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: New Thoughts MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Channeling Stuart Smalley? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 6:42 AM Subject: New Thoughts > (please give what you can to relief organizations) > > > New Thoughts > > > I am in the best form I have ever been in this very day. > I am in full contemporary command of my emotions and psychology. > My use of language has never been better than it is today. > I have full concentration to accomplish many things this day. > This day I am at my happiest I have ever been. > I understand difficult concepts and have a fantastic memory now. > Right this moment I am focused more than ever. > Language extends itself contemporaneously in my exciting styles. > Right now I love writing more than ever. > Today I am thinking more calmly than ever. > This perfect moment I am in full health and complete command. > I love working on these texts from day to day. > Here I am doing what I love best. > This day which is my happiest I am writing new and unheard-of thoughts. > Right now I have no stress and am at my calmest and most productive. > I feel best about myself and have good advice to offer anyone. > I am a good person and what I do turns out right and is appreciated now. > I am a fun person and am worthwhile to get to know. > Right now I am writing at the very top of forms. > My abilities are limitless and exciting today and have no bounds. > These are perfect times for being alive and everything I appreciate. > I love where I live and I love my partner and my work. > Our natural beauty in our home is lovely and growing now and continues. > I am more incisive and clear-headed than ever. > In this moment today I am fun and exciting to know. > My health could not be better than it is nowadays. > My days and nights are amazingly productive as in evidence this moment. > Right this moment I am intensely interested in everything about me. > I am an island of stability in the middle of wonderful chaos right now. > My sense of humor is perfected and I am a generous person. > > _ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:49:46 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: tsunami disaster In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think Doctors without Borders does a very good job, Alan. www.doctorswithoutborders.org They have lots of activity on their website, but they have a siimple page with reportage of what they are doing in the afflicted areas. That's where Laura and I plan to donate. --Ak On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:10:46 -0500, Alan Sondheim wrote: > If anyone knows URL for giving aid, and aid that will go to the affected > areas directly, please post here. > > Thanks, Alan > > nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ > http://www.asondheim.org/ > WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ > http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > -- Anastasios Kozaitis 3063 29th Street Astoria, NY 11102 kozaitis@gmail.com m: 917 572 6561 h: 718 267 7943 w: 212 327 8696 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:20:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: tsunami disaster Comments: To: Anastasios Kozaitis In-Reply-To: <296e37910412281649553e48dd@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit maybe someone already posted this? http://tsunamihelp.blogspot.com/ hsn > On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:10:46 -0500, Alan Sondheim wrote: >> If anyone knows URL for giving aid, and aid that will go to the affected >> areas directly, please post here. >> >> Thanks, Alan >> >> nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ >> http://www.asondheim.org/ >> WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ >> http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim >> Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 01:08:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: andrew loewen Subject: Re: New Thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I didn't know this was a therapy group. >Mark I did. At least that's one aspect of what it is. But I too have been guilty at times of jeopardizing this aspect of the list in order to strut by like an asshole. Perhaps you'll do better next time. It doesn't take much to be a caustic dink and in my experience the pleasure gained thereby is paltry. I've never done myself well by doing doing others poorly. As for the piece itself, I think it’s a complex one: by hairpin turns -- fine turns as if on the ledge a single eyelash, turns so sharp the thing is a pretzel of _affect_ -- funny, navel gazing, bitter, embarrassing, confessional, cynical, affirming, and yet tightly wound. It made me smile and it made me sad and it made me feel dirty too. Good stuff. Best, Andrew ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 01:44:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Newd Throats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i wish i were a generous person the works you eat thru me like a love shattered against the wall of an old abbey you eat thru me a haunted stranger a haunting visitor to a village (s)he's never left you eat thru me an anthology you wake me bleed me you loveless ship of desire you trap me in your teeth & eat me like the smoke eats glass in gloomy alleys the drummer lost his touch me again & again. dalachinsky 5/19/04 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 02:55:06 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cold 'enuf for you... shoe is podner... hot stuff comin' thru.. ride em cowgirl.... rode on bye... 3:00..for S.S...a coke away...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 00:16:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: SUBTEXT Seattle Reading Series - Matlin/Rowan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with readings by David MATLIN & Lou ROWAN at Richard Hugo House on Wednesday, January 5, 2005. Donations for admission will be taken at the door on the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. DAVID MATLIN is a novelist, poet, and essayist. His collections of poetry and prose include the books _China Beach_, _Dressed In Protective Fashion_, and _Fontana's Mirror_. His first novel _How the Night is Divided_ (McPherson & Company, 1993) was nominated for the National Book Critics Circle Award in 1993. Excerpts from his new novel entitled _A HalfMan Dreaming_ have been published in the Notre Dame Review, Apex of the M, Golden Handcuffs Review, Fiction International, Poetry New York, and FLASHPOINT. His book length essay _Vernooykill Creek: The Crisis of Prisons in America_ (San Diego State Univ Press, 1997) is based on ten years of teaching in one of the oldest Prison Education Programs in the nation in New York State. This essay discusses the crisis of prisons, the invention of surplus populations, and how America has been mining its own civil disintegrations for at least two decades. The book was widely reviewed and continues to receive strong critical acclaim. A new publication of the book with a more extensive introduction is forthcoming from North Atlantic Books. From 1986 through 1989, Matlin was the Curator of Poetry and Literature at P.S.1 and the Clocktower in New York City. He is a widely published reviewer and an essayist on art, literature, and culture. He lives in San Diego where he teaches in both the Literature and MFA Creative Writing Programs at SDSU. LOU ROWAN currently writes fiction and essays. He's at work on a novel about the losing of the American West, and he has completed a book of short stories, _Except My Life_, a satirical novel narrated by a superhero, and a collection of poems. His fiction currently appears in Prague Literary Review, and his stories, essays and poetry have appeared in a wide variety of journals. He began writing in New York City, and participated in many of the literary experiments around St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery. He has earned his living as a businessman and as an educator, and now edits Golden Handcuffs Review and works in residential real estate in Seattle. The Subtext 2005 schedule is: Feb 2, 2005 Alicia Cohen (Portland) and Seattle School Mar 2, 2005 Kerri Sonnenberg (Chicago) and Drew Kunz Apr 6, 2005 Lance Olsen & Andi Olsen and Vanessa DeWolf For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://www.speakeasy.org/~subtext ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:38:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 'dor vdor' 'generations unto generations' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed 'dor vdor' 'generations unto generations' 'dor vdor' 'generations unto generations' 'Nikuko' 'meat|girl flesh|girl' http://www.asondheim.org/birth.mov 12 megs worth it Then she sang the song of the west. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 04:54:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Fw: Toothless Tiger Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-41D27ED16B50=======" --=======AVGMAIL-41D27ED16B50======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Toothless Tiger There is a new animal that is patrolling the halls of our nation. Irretrievable would be the fear this beast once wrought on our = corporations. Ronnie Ray-Gun started the beast in a downward spiraling motion. When he screwed the air traffic controllers from behind, without the use = of lotion. The once great cat has been declawed. This action should have caused an outcry big enough to rock every = foundation. But greed and corruption were taking over, and kept a tight lid on the = situation. Benefits and bonuses that at one time came to be expected, Were now management's tools to beat the workers into subjection. The once great cat sleeps quietly in the corner. As our jobs get shipped abroad, while politicians do absolutely nothing. The powerless unions could no longer protect us from just this sort of = thing. I believe it's to late to save the beast, that many gave their lives = for. The neutered tiger standing numbly by, has just become an eyesore. The once great cat slips off to extinction. --=======AVGMAIL-41D27ED16B50======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/04 --=======AVGMAIL-41D27ED16B50=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:59:28 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Alan's Right To Post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alan has every right to post as much as he wants to any list anywhere. We also have the right to be bored by just about anything he posts. What's new about any of this? Nothing. Alan is not going to stop posting, although--by jing--it looks like he has taken to posting links instead of epics (thanks Alan!), and we're not going to stop being bored, unless Alan creates something totally un-Alan-like. I'd call that a Mexican stand-off. The big news is that absolutely none of this matters. I'd much rather be bored by Alan in the safety of my own home, than swept away by the Tsunami that has probably drowned at least two of my students and one of my associates, so I guess it's all in the way you look at it. I'm still wondering when the Big One is coming to Tokyo, but in the meantime, Alan, feel free. The Ages are looking on. Jesse Glass ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:50:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: Alan's Right To Post In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit my ma sez, "if you're bored you must be boring" hsn On 12/29/04 4:59 AM, "Jesse Glass" wrote: > Alan has every right to post as much as he wants to any list anywhere. > We also have the right to be bored by just about anything he posts. > What's new about any of this? Nothing. Alan is not going to stop > posting, although--by jing--it looks like he has taken to posting links > instead of epics (thanks Alan!), and we're not going to stop being > bored, unless Alan creates something totally un-Alan-like. I'd call > that a Mexican stand-off. The big news is that absolutely none of this > matters. I'd much rather be bored by Alan in the safety of my own > home, than swept away by the Tsunami that has probably drowned at least > two of my students and one of my associates, so I guess it's all in the > way you look at it. I'm still wondering when the Big One is coming to > Tokyo, but in the meantime, Alan, feel free. The Ages are looking on. > Jesse Glass ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 06:56:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: updated infor and support for victums of The South-East Asia Earthquake and Tsunami In-Reply-To: <200412290500.iBT50aPG002225@b.mx.sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit updated infor and support for victums of The South-East Asia Earthquake and Tsunami update12/29 http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:33:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently posted this to another list, but no one responded, so I'll post it here. I have been reading _Oliver Twist_ and wondering, along the way, about the characterization of Fagin, who is most often referred to as "the Jew": isn't he a bit of a stereotype, with the filching, the hording, the crooked nose, etc? There is a similar character in _The Great Gatsby_, if you'll recall, named Meyer Wolfsheim. Wolfsheim is a racketeer who has helped Gatsby create an illegal fortune and then is too selfish even to attend his funeral at the end. Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian sailor when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this period? Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? Aaron + + + + + + + It was a chill, damp, windy night, when the Jew: buttoning his great-coat tight round his shrivelled body, and pulling the collar up over his ears so as completely to obscure the lower part of his face: emerged from his den. He paused on the step as the door was locked and chained behind him; and having listened while the boys made all secure, and until their retreating footsteps were no longer audible, slunk down the street as quickly as he could. The house to which Oliver had been conveyed, was in the neighbourhood of Whitechapel. The Jew stopped for an instant at the corner of the street; and, glancing suspiciously round, crossed the road, and struck off in the direction of Spitalfields. The mud lay thick upon the stones, and a black mist hung over the streets; the rain fell sluggishly down, and everything felt cold and clammy to the touch. It seemed just the night when it befitted such a being as the Jew to be abroad. As he glided stealthily along, creeping beneath the shelter of the walls and doorways, the hideous old man seemed like some loathsome reptile, engendered in the slime and darkness through which he moved: crawling forth, by night, in search of some rich offal for a meal. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:14:40 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Aaron Belz" > Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm > wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian sailor > when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this period? > Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? "Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" eg: But this or such was Bleistein's way: A saggy bending of the knees And elbows, with the palms turned out, Chicago Semite Viennese. Nineteenth and early 20thC British writing (not to go back to Marlowe and Shakespeare, leave alone Chaucer's Abbess's Tale) is riddled with antisemitism. The one exception that I can think of is (George) Eliot's _Daniel Deronda_. Disraeli, I suppose too, but I don't know his novels. And he was passing. Trollope, from this period, is I think more sympathetic to Jews than is Dickens, but I've had that thrown back in my face. To me, the wierdest case is Edgar Wallace's Sanders novels, which on the face of it are [obviously] racist, but in an odd way are even worse for the *covert* antisemitism. Fagin is a cliché -- there are worse things around from that period. RH. (Incidentally, Phlebas was a Phoenician, which while it makes him semitic, puts him in a racial class not simply with Jews but almost anyone who lived in the Middle East. R again.) Hey, there's Malamud's short story, "The Jew-Bird" -- *that*s the way to do it, wind the bastards up. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:16:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <001301c4edcc$76242c90$9601a8c0@AaronDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Yes and check out Edgar Rosenberg, From Shylock to Svengali, Jewish Stereotypes in English Fiction. You might also want to look at Sandor Gilman's work. -Alan nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:31:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan - thanks for the reference. Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a big difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: theiving, miserly, and compared to a lizard! It's the animal comparison that sends off the loudest alarm for me. I am not saying there isn't a touch of anti-semitism in Eliot's poetry, but just to say that it seems a lot more palatable than what's in Dickens, and you never hear people screaming about Dickens. Perhaps it's Eliot's connection to Pound that gets him in trouble. It makes me terribly angry that there is so much anti-semitism in such a rich body of literature. It's like a beautiful athlete with cancer or something! Aaron >"Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" > >eg: > > But this or such was Bleistein's way: > A saggy bending of the knees > And elbows, with the palms turned out, > Chicago Semite Viennese. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:53:12 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Aaron Belz" > Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a big > difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: Oddly, Fagin doesn't bother me that much -- it's simply such a raving nonsense cartoon that it's impossible to take seriously. But there's something seriously wrong about *all* of Eliot's rhymed octosyllabic quatrain poems from that period -- Sweeney Among the Nightingales, mate? Robin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:26:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Quoting Disaster In-Reply-To: <8D41BD9C-595A-11D9-B915-0030657CB5FE@ihug.com.au> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable These quotes (below) come from Jill Jones, an Australian poet, who pulled them together from news reports, friends, etc. Quite moving, they localize the disaster for me in ways different than visual media (not that those hom= e video accounts are not without an overwhelming power). Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ++ Water has taken away my family. - Mother, what's happened? I saw you yesterday and now you're here. You're not dead, you've gone to another village. Please come back. - We hope the funds allocated for the people won't be lost to corruption. - It came just like a river. People were running here and there. They couldn't decide where to go. - My son is crying for his mother. I think this is her. I recognise her hand, but I'm not sure. - There just aren't enough body bags. We thought it was the end of the world. =8A The water was as high as a coconut palm. =8A It was all over in 25 minutes. That's all. How can that be ... such devastation. - Children in emergency wards were killed. Soldier patients suffering from malaria helped to evacuate other patients. - I need baby food as well ... no aid has come to us yet. - No contact makes us fearful. We're trying to send helicopters there. - Where is the military? They're just taking care of their families. There is no war in Aceh now, why don't they help pick up the bodies in the street? This was the only thing we could do. It was a desperate solution. The bodies were rotting. We gave them a decent burial. - Police told us to come and have a look at this collection of ID cards. - We met in university. Is this the fate that we hoped for? My darling, you were the only hope for me. Dead: they are dead, my cousins, their children, many of my husband's family. There are too many funerals, he has to stay to help them. - She went under a car, it just went over the top of her. I just got picked up and chucked against a wall. I was a lucky one: we cheated death. - Then all of a sudden we saw what looked like a wave surge into the garden ... at one point I had to scramble up bamboo trees to avoid the rising water. I hope and pray that we can at least find their bodies so that we can see them one last time and give them a decent burial. - Information reaching here suggests facilities at Kalpakkam nuclear station may have been affected by the tidal waves. - We don't have confirmed data =8A - The TV, everything gone. - I've got calls from people down south who need clothes to bury their dead. They have none. - Wednesday 29 December 2004 Those quoted, in order: - Anbalakhan, who lost her husband, son and two daughters in the wrecked village of Karambambari, Tamil Nadu - a woman at a grave site, Tamil Nadu - Indonesian House Speaker, Agung Laksono - Rajith Ekanayake, a security guard at the P&J City shopping centre, Galle - Bejkhajorn Saithong, searching for his wife on Khao Lak beach - Lieutenant-Colonel Budi Santoso, Banda Aceh - Sofyan Halim, Banda Aceh - Citra Nurhayat, a nurse in a Banda Aceh hospital - Nurhayati, who has only had bananas to feed her 3-month-old baby since Sunday, Banda Aceh - Djoko Sumaryono, Indonesian government official, says of Simeulue - Indra Utama, community leader in Banda Aceh - Venerable Baddegama Samitha, a Buddhist monk and former parliamentarian, at funeral of Queen of the Sea train wreck victims near Galle - Premasiri Jayasinghe, Colombo - a young man at the site of the Queen of the Sea train wreck near Galle - Mrs Seeli Packianathan, returning from Sri Lanka, at Sydney Airport - Les Boardman, returning from Phuket, at Sydney Airport - Joyce Evans, of Melbourne, in Sri Lanka - Kolanda Velu, from Cuddalore, Tamil Nadu - spokesman, Indian Prime Minister's office - Indonesian Vice-President Yusuf Kalla, in Medan city - Roshan Perera, at the Catholic church in Mattakkuliya, Colombo - Kusum Athukorala, local aid worker, Mattakkuliya, Colombo _______________________________________________________ Jill Jones web site: http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~jpjones blog: http://rubystreet.blogspot.com/ Latest books: Struggle and radiance: ten commentaries (Wild Honey Press) http://www.wildhoneypress.com Screens Jets Heaven. Available now from Salt Publishing http://www.saltpublishing.com ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:09:29 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is tricky territory, one HAS to have the mind of a cultural historian of the first rank to even begin to discuss it, which I quite freely confess I do not have. But let's make an attempt. The term 'anti-semitism' would have been meaningless to Elizabethans like Marlowe or Shakespeare, that Marlowe's 'Jew of Malta' relies on a stereotype, which was quite typical of European culture for centuries, and Islamic culture too, where Jews were those allowed to raise interest, unlike the supposedly pure Christians or Moslems, who happily indulged in the slave trade, Moslems first, then Christians, after a hiatus, with the assistance of African chiefs. Marlowe and Shakespeare knew next to nothing about Jews, but Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on their head by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish Shylock, 'The Merchant of Venice', as Kenneth Tynan said, is a broken-backed play, the messages it gives out are ambiguous, does WS really side with the Merchants who are as rapacious as Shylock or does he side with a man who was as so concerned with daughters as WS seemed to be himself? Well, of course, in typical WS style, he ain't telling you. The play's the thing. Dickens cardboard cut-out Fagin is of course a piece of Victorian stage villainy, altho' Ron Moody's immortal performance in the musical goes way beyond that , but would anyone be mad enough to suggest that Dickens' characterisation of Bill Sykes was prejudiced against the English? I am sick of stereotypes being thrown against stereotypes, and historically unaware statements being brandished like rusty swords. One has to be aware of the modes of communication and understanding between the cultures of the past - it's not that we now are any better, we're probably worse, and by we I mean right across the developed world, from the US right through to Japan via France etc. The people of the further past had even less idea of other cultures than we do, and the limits of 'our' ideas are shown with horrible vividness by the bungling by the US-led coalition in occupied Iraq. The bit that is nasty is the deliberate anti-semitism that is so evident in the modernist hero Pound, I'll never forget his comments about Isaac Rosenberg in an letter they are unrepeatable, , and in an icier, colder, more heartless way, in the more limited but greater poet Eliot. They knew better. Racism is everywhere, Jamaicans and Barbadians are prejudiced against each other, in a general sense, I don't mean every individual feels like that, China and India are full of ethnic discrimination, even talking about this is just touching the tip of what waited for the Titanic, none of us have the right to assume moral superiority, I damn well know I don't. Cheap thrills to make one feel somehow better. All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Belz" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:31 PM Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens Alan - thanks for the reference. Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a big difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: theiving, miserly, and compared to a lizard! It's the animal comparison that sends off the loudest alarm for me. I am not saying there isn't a touch of anti-semitism in Eliot's poetry, but just to say that it seems a lot more palatable than what's in Dickens, and you never hear people screaming about Dickens. Perhaps it's Eliot's connection to Pound that gets him in trouble. It makes me terribly angry that there is so much anti-semitism in such a rich body of literature. It's like a beautiful athlete with cancer or something! Aaron >"Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" > >eg: > > But this or such was Bleistein's way: > A saggy bending of the knees > And elbows, with the palms turned out, > Chicago Semite Viennese. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:03:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <001501c4edfb$74a59780$8bf4a8c0@netserver> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on their head >by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish Shylock, In that wonderful speech Shylock in making his claim to humanity catalogues what were considered the baser human attributes. No mention of the soul or the "higher" emotions attached to it. This is entirely in keeping with the standard stereotype. My guess is that the audience, with no more knowledge of actual Jews than Shakespeare (altho there was a small community of foreign Jewish merchants in London) would have responded, "yeah, that's what Jews are like," and Shakespeare asks for that response by having Portia remind them that "The quality of mercy is not strain'd, It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven." Like grace, to which the Jew is immune. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:30:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature let's get off this jew obsseion already let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no washy steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:21:21 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Alan's Right To Post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan's "confessional" piece was part of his larger work and was not neccesarily Alan feeling good or bac it i spartof his larger work and of course he must keep posting he is one of the very intersting poets/ writers on here. I cant do anything about Tsunamis ..... I am on a kind of hill and there are a lot of Islands in the Waitemata so I would survive a Tsunami. That's all that matters. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "hsn" To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:50 AM Subject: Re: Alan's Right To Post > my ma sez, "if you're bored you must be boring" > > hsn > > > > > On 12/29/04 4:59 AM, "Jesse Glass" wrote: > > > Alan has every right to post as much as he wants to any list anywhere. > > We also have the right to be bored by just about anything he posts. > > What's new about any of this? Nothing. Alan is not going to stop > > posting, although--by jing--it looks like he has taken to posting links > > instead of epics (thanks Alan!), and we're not going to stop being > > bored, unless Alan creates something totally un-Alan-like. I'd call > > that a Mexican stand-off. The big news is that absolutely none of this > > matters. I'd much rather be bored by Alan in the safety of my own > > home, than swept away by the Tsunami that has probably drowned at least > > two of my students and one of my associates, so I guess it's all in the > > way you look at it. I'm still wondering when the Big One is coming to > > Tokyo, but in the meantime, Alan, feel free. The Ages are looking on. > > Jesse Glass ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:33:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Lewis LaCook Subject: New Work: LaCook and Kapalin: The Bear Comments: To: Leiws LaCook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The Bear a smash-hit romantic comedy by Lewis LaCook and Michael Kapalin http://www.lewislacook.com/video/theBearDIVX.avi (Div-X avi, 2004: 10.0MB) requires installation of the Div-X codec: http://www.divx.com/ *************************************************************************** Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/||| Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/||| XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:42:04 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Disreali was Jewish - but Eliot also has "The Jew squats in his estaminet". Fagin couldn't be done again - but Dickens is still a great writer - Dickens probably met such types .... the East End of London still has a certain number of Jewish gangsters (of course not all gangsters in the East end are Jewish!!) - but theother day in thelocal some old pommy bloke was raving about Isreal and how all the big busineses were run by Jews - he was some old working class character)....but Eliot and all those guys were anti semitic we have to make sure we avoid it in future. Now I come across people who are both anti semitic and rave against Arabs - not literary people as far as I know though...we have to try to be more enlightened I suppose. But we dnt want to get to PC about it all - there will probably always be racists and nutters around in this mad world. What about writers who wrote against anti-semitism etc? Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hamilton" To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 6:14 AM Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > From: "Aaron Belz" > > > Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm > > wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian sailor > > when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this > period? > > Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? > > "Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" > > eg: > > But this or such was Bleistein's way: > A saggy bending of the knees > And elbows, with the palms turned out, > Chicago Semite Viennese. > > Nineteenth and early 20thC British writing (not to go back to Marlowe and > Shakespeare, leave alone Chaucer's Abbess's Tale) is riddled with > antisemitism. > > The one exception that I can think of is (George) Eliot's _Daniel Deronda_. > > Disraeli, I suppose too, but I don't know his novels. And he was passing. > > Trollope, from this period, is I think more sympathetic to Jews than is > Dickens, but I've had that thrown back in my face. > > To me, the wierdest case is Edgar Wallace's Sanders novels, which on the > face of it are [obviously] racist, but in an odd way are even worse for the > *covert* antisemitism. > > Fagin is a cliché -- there are worse things around from that period. > > RH. > > (Incidentally, Phlebas was a Phoenician, which while it makes him semitic, > puts him in a racial class not simply with Jews but almost anyone who lived > in the Middle East. > > R again.) > > Hey, there's Malamud's short story, "The Jew-Bird" -- *that*s the way to do > it, wind the bastards up. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:24:07 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: quantum in a different light MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit steve, i wish i could be more generous too baring the truth showing ourselves justifying self dignifying bearing bodies in the light of others the only truth is seeing sometimes we can't bear the weight of others losing their light cloaked as dark matter often we light the way demystifying a way of being without losing each precious packet of endless knowing always beginning ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:05:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <20041229.194428.-25017.1.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why not obsess about the fact that the USA was founded with a profound Anti Catholic and Anti Immigrant bias? Or the fact that 30 million people died in the African slave trade? or that 50 million native Americans died when the Europeans arrived? Or any number of the hundreds of racisms, sexism, homophobisms that exist around the world? How about the fact that the early Feminists like Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Abolitionists like William Lloyd Garrison and Ralph Waldo Emerson thought the Irish were subhuman? I think WOP stereotypes would would great and as a WOP I give my permission, and if you want to use the words DAGO, or MOBSTER or GUINEA fine with this WOP. The fact that 100 years after the Italians arrived in the USA and after we produced Frank Stella, Joseph Ceravolo, Enrico Fermi,Diane Di Prima, Lee Iacocca and Joe DiMaggio, and many other great and good people all we hear about in the popular Media is that we are MAFIA and that any Italian American who has made must "have a friend with a cut nose", go right ahead. Just think about this for a moment what if the Sopranos was a show about Jewish Moneylenders do you think that show would win EMMYs? No there would be riots Most people are sensitive to the oppression that has been foisted on the Jews it was always wrong we are all against this evil- - ENOUGH OVERSENSITIVITY WE ALL HAVE STORIES OF OPPRESSION AND BIGOTRY AND NO ONE ON THE BUFFALO LIST CONDONES OR ENDORSES THESE THINGS WE WOULD HOPE No one here is denigrating the Holocaust and if there is an Anti Semite on the list shame on you for being stupid and ignorant- You know we have a role as poets in this society of ours and that is to oppose the Fascist state that is developing in our nation right now where are our poets-where is our Akhmatova? our Neruda? our Thomas Mann? Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:31 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > > > totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature > > > let's get off this jew obsseion already > > > let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe > we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards > almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes > nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no > washy > steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes > > you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:40:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Jason Nelson Subject: the waves, the waves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A very recently finished work that seems to sadly fit with recent waves. http://www.secrettechnology.com/hymns/navigate.html Is it? Anyone thoughts? Jason Nelson __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:44:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: the dickens with anti-semitism (and all fascist ideologies) In-Reply-To: <000b01c4ee1c$686a2be0$6402a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We all, especially on this list, need to be wary of those who treat racial accusations as guilty until proven innocent, actively seek-out such accusations, and treat multiple accusations as proof of guilt. These people seek to rule by terror and behave in a predatory manner. We all need to clear the cobwebs out of our heads and realize that every racially-conscious group or person is up-to-no-good. http://bobmarley.com/songs/lyrics/war.lyrics.txt ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:45:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: something borrowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed something borrowed borrowed sex and time in the holy days http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim/borrowed.jpg _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:49:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Raymond- You are surely missing my point. I'm not trying to get PC on your wop ass. I was just wondering: if Dickens had a pronounced anti-Jewish predisposition, why do we bother so much about folks like Eliot? Robin's answer was spot on. There's more to Eliot than I had remembered, especially in the Sweeney set. The "murderous paws," etc. "Apeneck Sweeney." Yikes. Case closed. Chicago Postmodern Poetry --- hmm.... Will you come see me read at Myopic in February? Please do, and I'll buy you a drink! Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:51:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City presents Ahadada Books and DJ Despo Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please forward: ---------------- Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press Ahadada Books (Burlington, Ontario, Canada), Thurs. Jan. 6, 6 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Event will be hosted by Ahadada editors Jesse Glass and Daniel Sendecki Featuring readings from: John Byrum Jesse Glass Paolo Javier Richard Peabody Daniel Sendecki With music by DJ Despo There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues http://www.ahadadabooks.com Next month: Firewheel Editions (Danbury, Conn.), Feb. 3 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:26:30 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20041229185002.03404190@pop.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/36252.php Democracy Now Interview: Susan Sontag, 1933-2004 The conversation among writers that takes place in the last 20 years is for the most part just like the conversation of any other professional people on the make. They could just as well be advertising executives or businesspeople, or anything else. They talk about income and they talk about the comforts or lack of comforts of their personal lives, and -- but that's a kind of -- if I think back on my own life, the single most amazing phenomenon is the discrediting of idealism. Mark Weiss wrote: >> Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on their head >> by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish Shylock, > > > > In that wonderful speech Shylock in making his claim to humanity > catalogues > what were considered the baser human attributes. No mention of the > soul or > the "higher" emotions attached to it. This is entirely in keeping with > the > standard stereotype. My guess is that the audience, with no more > knowledge > of actual Jews than Shakespeare (altho there was a small community of > foreign Jewish merchants in London) would have responded, "yeah, that's > what Jews are like," and Shakespeare asks for that response by having > Portia remind them that "The quality of mercy is not strain'd, It > droppeth > as the gentle rain from heaven." Like grace, to which the Jew is immune. > > Mark > -- {\rtf1\mac\ansicpg10000\cocoartf102 {\fonttbl\f0\fswiss\fcharset77 Helvetica;} {\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;} \margl1440\margr1440\vieww9000\viewh9000\viewkind0 \pard\tx560\tx1120\tx1680\tx2240\tx2800\tx3360\tx3920\tx4480\tx5040\tx5600\tx6160\tx6720\ql\qnatural \f0\fs24 \cf0 \ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 02:15:07 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit small fist... open palm... long fingers... bitten nails... of of of of of... light........... 3:00...the oboe snores....the shore..drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 02:06:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey no hassle with wops ray i grew up with em they liked me considering i killed their lord who they thought was italian by the way they used to tell my mom at work she was alright for a jew why can't we alll just get unlong just think the jew thing should be dropped for awhile ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 02:02:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Two Poems Comments: To: Leiws LaCook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/video/theTrudge.mov http://www.lewislacook.com/video/theBlackPants.mov Quicktime Video, very dark and quiet room *************************************************************************** Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/||| Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/||| XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:39:53 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mark Although I'm not sure whether the Shylock speech alludes to the 'baser human attributes' I do agree with you that WS and his audience would not have known much about Jews, however, one does have to add a proviso that London, unlike the rest of England, had long been host to immigrant communities, one of the lesser known aspects of the Peasants Revolt was that it was triggered in Kent by the believed economic power of Flemings in London. These things get muckier the more one looks into them. One of the, forensically, as it were, aspects of the MOV, is its projection of characteristics that would have been well known to WS & audience onto Shylock that really belonged to the gentleman proto-capitalists of the London 'Change. They were the ones who really wanted a pound of flesh. I'm very wary of saying anything about WS himself might have felt, the phrase was the thing I reckon as far he was concerned, he wrote to please whoever he was writing for, I'd tentatively suggest a certain sensitivity about daughters and an unease about crowds turning into mobs. Significant facts about WS tend include what didn't happen, for instance, the use of a revival of RII as a signal for the failed Essex rebellion is indisputable, most of players were hauled before the authorities, and treated very badly, while Essex was beheaded and Southampton was thrown in gaol, but who was questioned, hassled, interrogated at all? Why, none other than Ws, the author of the play. He was an evasive touch-me-not so-and-so whatever else he was. All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:03 AM Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on their head >by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish Shylock, In that wonderful speech Shylock in making his claim to humanity catalogues what were considered the baser human attributes. No mention of the soul or the "higher" emotions attached to it. This is entirely in keeping with the standard stereotype. My guess is that the audience, with no more knowledge of actual Jews than Shakespeare (altho there was a small community of foreign Jewish merchants in London) would have responded, "yeah, that's what Jews are like," and Shakespeare asks for that response by having Portia remind them that "The quality of mercy is not strain'd, It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven." Like grace, to which the Jew is immune. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 08:28:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <20041229.194428.-25017.1.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, As a Scottish-American, I must take exception to your inaccurate stereotyping. We are not "almost as cheap as," etc. WE ARE CHEAPER! Everybody needs something to feel proud about. Your post disturbed me so greatly that instead of writing I'm going to spend my morning counting the pennies under my mattress. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:31 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature let's get off this jew obsseion already let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no washy steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 08:39:24 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Let's at least be honest with ourselves In-Reply-To: <000a01c4ee32$b07241f0$83e33c45@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The question of why we treat different writers differently when it comes to how we respond to the less-than-savory values they hold, i.e., the original question raised by Aaron Belz, is a good one and it applies to writers other than poets and to other genres as well. I have, for example, been reading the Harry Potter series to my son and I am continually struck by the obvious and conventional and male dominant gender stereotypes woven through the narrative--everything from Hermione Granger's goody-two-shoes-good-student-ness (and yes I am aware that she is more complex than that; I would, however, argue that overall she fits a very clear and obvious female/feminine stereotype) to the Weasley's marriage--and I have wondered if, amidst all the gushing about the series and how wonderful its influence on kids' reading habits has been, anyone has bothered to point out that it also reinforces ideas about masculinity and femininity and what it means for us to be men and women that are blatantly sexist. Perhaps they have and I just haven't read it, but my point is that all the writing we do is infused with the values of the time and place we live in and to ask questions about that, and about our critical responses, personal and institutional, to those values and how they are expressed in writing, is not, by definition, to obsess about them. It is to try to be responsible and accountable for and to the world(s) that words create, as well as the world those words come out of. And we all have blind spots precisely because we all have identities that are shaped by the specifics of who we are, where and when we have lived, whom we have known and so on, specific which will, by definition, have excluded whole areas of human experience from our fields of vision. To be conscious of those identities in reading and writing, as well as the identities of those who write what we read, is one of the ways of broadening what we know about the world and ourselves. It is worth asking, for example, why when T. S. Eliot is taught to undergraduates in introductory literature classes, and perhaps even in courses in modern poetry meant for English majors, his anti-Semitism tends to be rendered invisible--and I should add that it was rendered invisible when I was a graduate student as well. And it's worth asking this not to denigrate T. S. Eliot, or to say that he was less of a poet than he was, or even to accuse those who do not mention T. S. Eliot's anti-Semitism of being anti-Semitic themselves. It is worth asking because if we really believe that writing matters, that it is of value in the world, that it is political in broadest possible sense of that term, then we also have to admit that the choices we make in terms of what we read and teach to whom, where, when and why are also political and bespeak the values of the moment no less strongly than the writers we are teaching. (And I would add that the same point could and should be made about all isms, not just anti-Semitism; I've focused on that only because it's where this discussion started.) To refuse the validity of this kind of inquiry is to condemn ourselves to what I can only characterize as a "nice white liberal color blindness" that in fact masks the underlying privilege of the dominant group in this culture, which is overwhelming white and Christian--precisely because it is to suggest that this kind of color blindness is not at one and the same time a kind of race consciousness in itself. (There is a wonderful book that deals with this question in much larger and more complex terms than I can possible do here: White, by Richard Dyer.) We all need to be honest with ourselves about the isms we cannot help but harbor. Being married to an Iranian Muslim has, over the years, opened my eyes to all kinds of misconceptions I didn't know I had that are deeply rooted in the anti-Arab racism of the west, and learning about these has changed the way I read and the kinds of questions I ask about what I read. And I could tell story after story about the same thing happening to me at different points in my life. I wish people on this list were willing to be a little more vulnerable about issues like this, and more honest. It would, for me, raise the level of discussion in the dialogues that cycle through the list every so often about an aspect of making literature that we, or at least I believe that we, cannot escape. And I wish you all a happy and healthy New Year! Richard _________________________________ Richard Jeffrey Newman Associate Professor, English Chair, International Education Committee Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu www.ncc.edu www.richardjnewman.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:42:06 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The closing bit in my last should read : who was NOT questioned. etc etc. Typos are the hell for which all writers are probably destined, we will all end spending eternity looking at our misprints in flame-red letters on our dungeon walls! Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "david.bircumshaw" To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:39 PM Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens Hi Mark Although I'm not sure whether the Shylock speech alludes to the 'baser human attributes' I do agree with you that WS and his audience would not have known much about Jews, however, one does have to add a proviso that London, unlike the rest of England, had long been host to immigrant communities, one of the lesser known aspects of the Peasants Revolt was that it was triggered in Kent by the believed economic power of Flemings in London. These things get muckier the more one looks into them. One of the, forensically, as it were, aspects of the MOV, is its projection of characteristics that would have been well known to WS & audience onto Shylock that really belonged to the gentleman proto-capitalists of the London 'Change. They were the ones who really wanted a pound of flesh. I'm very wary of saying anything about WS himself might have felt, the phrase was the thing I reckon as far he was concerned, he wrote to please whoever he was writing for, I'd tentatively suggest a certain sensitivity about daughters and an unease about crowds turning into mobs. Significant facts about WS tend include what didn't happen, for instance, the use of a revival of RII as a signal for the failed Essex rebellion is indisputable, most of players were hauled before the authorities, and treated very badly, while Essex was beheaded and Southampton was thrown in gaol, but who was questioned, hassled, interrogated at all? Why, none other than Ws, the author of the play. He was an evasive touch-me-not so-and-so whatever else he was. All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:03 AM Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on their head >by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish Shylock, In that wonderful speech Shylock in making his claim to humanity catalogues what were considered the baser human attributes. No mention of the soul or the "higher" emotions attached to it. This is entirely in keeping with the standard stereotype. My guess is that the audience, with no more knowledge of actual Jews than Shakespeare (altho there was a small community of foreign Jewish merchants in London) would have responded, "yeah, that's what Jews are like," and Shakespeare asks for that response by having Portia remind them that "The quality of mercy is not strain'd, It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven." Like grace, to which the Jew is immune. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:01:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Typos are hell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is one reason why publishing on your own web site, and not as a book, is so worthwhile. Unlike with a book, I'm able to correct and revise my texts even after they've been initially announced and read. Here a text is in a continuous process of revision, which makes it a body of work that's always alive and kicking. This is not to say that books aren't important. I'm forever reading books. But for the writer, publishing on paper has a finality that could be deadly. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "david.bircumshaw" To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:42 AM Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > The closing bit in my last should read : who was NOT questioned. etc etc. > > Typos are the hell for which all writers are probably destined, we will all end spending eternity looking at our misprints in > flame-red letters on our dungeon walls! > > Best > > Dave > > > > David Bircumshaw > > Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet > & Painting Without Numbers > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "david.bircumshaw" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:39 PM > Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > > > Hi Mark > > > Although I'm not sure whether the Shylock speech alludes to the 'baser human attributes' I do agree with you that WS and his > audience would not have known much about Jews, however, one does have to add a proviso that London, unlike the rest of England, had > long been host to immigrant communities, one of the lesser known aspects of the Peasants Revolt was that it was triggered in Kent by > the believed economic power of Flemings in London. These things get muckier the more one looks into them. One of the, forensically, > as it were, aspects of the MOV, is its projection of characteristics that would have been well known to WS & audience onto Shylock > that really belonged to the gentleman proto-capitalists of the London 'Change. They were the ones who really wanted a pound of > flesh. I'm very wary of saying anything about WS himself might have felt, the phrase was the thing I reckon as far he was concerned, > he wrote to please whoever he was writing for, I'd tentatively suggest a certain sensitivity about daughters and an unease about > crowds turning into mobs. Significant facts about WS tend include what didn't happen, for instance, the use of a revival of RII as a > signal for the failed Essex rebellion is indisputable, most of players were hauled before the authorities, and treated very badly, > while Essex was beheaded and Southampton was thrown in gaol, but who was questioned, hassled, interrogated at all? Why, none other > than Ws, the author of the play. He was an evasive touch-me-not so-and-so whatever else he was. > > All the Best > > Dave > > > David Bircumshaw > > Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet > & Painting Without Numbers > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Weiss" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:03 AM > Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > > > >Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on their head > >by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish Shylock, > > > In that wonderful speech Shylock in making his claim to humanity catalogues > what were considered the baser human attributes. No mention of the soul or > the "higher" emotions attached to it. This is entirely in keeping with the > standard stereotype. My guess is that the audience, with no more knowledge > of actual Jews than Shakespeare (altho there was a small community of > foreign Jewish merchants in London) would have responded, "yeah, that's > what Jews are like," and Shakespeare asks for that response by having > Portia remind them that "The quality of mercy is not strain'd, It droppeth > as the gentle rain from heaven." Like grace, to which the Jew is immune. > > Mark > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:14:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: website -- nocturnes (re)view MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/36321.php >>INFO: website -- nocturnes (re)view nocturnes (re)view is a theme-based journal committed to publishing quality innovative critical and creative art from throughout the African Diaspora and other contested spaces. The journal serves as a forum for examining and celebrating the natural connections between diverse artistic mediums as expressed through visual and written language....Includes work by Arnold J. Kemp, Mendi Lewis Obadike, Wendy S. Walters, Pat Reed, Calvin Forbes, Gloria Frym, Ronaldo V. Wilson, Patricia Spears Jones, Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite, barbara jane reyes, Beth Murray, opalmoore, Jay Wright, Dawn Lundy Martin, Michael S. Harper, Akilah Oliver... >>INFO: website -- nocturnes (re)view ================================== Mission nocturnes (re)view is a theme-based journal committed to publishing quality innovative critical and creative art from throughout the African Diaspora and other contested spaces. The journal serves as a forum for examining and celebrating the natural connections between diverse artistic mediums as expressed through visual and written language. http://www.nocturneseditions.org Poetry. Art. Fiction. Non-fiction. Essays. This issue, published in 2004, addresses the theme "blues." The cover features sculpture by noted artist Long Nguyen, art portfolio by Leonard Mainor, A. Van Jordan's essay "Earning Transcendence: Blues Iconography to Get Me Over", Tiffany Higgins's translations of Nadia Tuéni, and Deni Hodges's yoga exercise "Blue : Calm." Includes work by Arnold J. Kemp, Mendi Lewis Obadike, Wendy S. Walters, Pat Reed, Calvin Forbes, Gloria Frym, Ronaldo V. Wilson, Patricia Spears Jones, Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite, barbara jane reyes, Beth Murray, opalmoore, Jay Wright, Dawn Lundy Martin, Michael S. Harper, Akilah Oliver, elen gebreab, Al Young, Duriel E. Harris, Will Alexander, Myronn Hardy, Lisanne Thompson, Aja Couchois Duncan, Christian Campbell, Holly Bass, Douglas Kearney, and Douglas "D. Scot" Miller on CD Harryette Mullen, Douglas "D. Scot" Miller, Douglas Kearney, Fred Moten, Eisa Davis, giovanni singleton, José Felipe Alvergue, PigAnkle: Whole Hog!, Communicating Vessels with Amarnath Ravva/d.g. eng, & Ishmael Wadada Leo Smith's Carbon System 160 pp., Perfectbound/CD http://www.nocturneseditions.org ############################################# this is e-drum, a listserv providing information of interests to black writers and diverse supporters worldwide. e-drum is moderated by kalamu ya salaam (kalamu@aol.com). ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:10:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <20041230132805.LCSI2032.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii the lost tribes went to Scotland, not Ireland. have you ever noticed how a New York "jewish" accent resembles that of the highlanders? curious. in this obsession in ferretting out anti-semitism in Shakespeare/Dickens/Eliot, which is either moot or a subject you can debate until the cows come home, take up knitting and have hot toddies, there is no acknowledgement of anti-arabism that exists in the same texts. or rather, anti-semitism, since the distinction is not genetic, but linguistic (semitic languages, including Arabic and Hebrew). do you really believe that medieval peasants could distinguish between one inconoclastic mideastern monotheism from the other, particularly when the dietary rules were so similar, the attitudes towards scholarship, and other signifiers of that nothingness, race. yet the delusion persists. Othello is always thought of a black, i.e. of African origin, in common thought, but he is of course a Moor and is Muslim and probably of Arabic descent. finally, Shakespeare always deals from both sides of the deck, and therefore is relatively free of responsibility. it is Dickens and Eliot, esp., who are blamable, and who should have known better. for chrissakes, the best prime minister of the 19th century was of Jewish descent, and his father came up with evolution without doing the leg work. (and waged propaganda for the Tories in the 1790s, too, but nobody is perfect). Vernon Frazer wrote: Steve, As a Scottish-American, I must take exception to your inaccurate stereotyping. We are not "almost as cheap as," etc. WE ARE CHEAPER! Everybody needs something to feel proud about. Your post disturbed me so greatly that instead of writing I'm going to spend my morning counting the pennies under my mattress. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:31 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature let's get off this jew obsseion already let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no washy steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:40:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: DENOTE / DONATE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed DENOTE / DONATE network 24: "tsunami" bssid: "00:02:8a:4b:14:c1" network 24: "tsunami" bssid: "00:02:8a:4b:14:c1" so many 0s -/- 1s in a pixellised tsunami whatt!!pixellised tsunami so far pixellised tsunami so what e pixellised tsunami "I shouted out, 'Who killed Kennedy?' When after all, it was you and me." - Mick Jagger in Sympathy for the Devil Godard - the weather is hurricane, tornado, blizzard, tsunami, monsoon, earthquake, absent ocean soliton, tsunami splashing against universal origins. within torn hurricane fabrics, tsunami restless and fast beneath the waves, among the seas and shores of the untoward chasms of the body, that tsunami by the _wish_ itself. it's a hurricane! tsunami! typhoon, "table wind." we travel to beppu where we make a big storm and a tsunami fills all slow waves, tsunami, across the chest, down neck and spinal column. the water is! how huge tsunami are. how the weight of water bears down. we're monsoon, they're tsunami the truth of the clouds: my dying in your torn hurricane fabrics, tsunami restless and fast beneath the waves, tidal waves, tsunami bring on tsunami. i take you on down. what'd i tell you. i take you all, come on tsunami. i take you on down. what'd i tell you. i take you you fit in your dream. i come on like hurricane. i bring on tsunami. i hurricane. i bring o n [interrupt] tsunami. i take you on down. what'd i all us lost tsunami waters without facing death every minute hour. slips girl when. crippled. tsunami rotation. age. earthquake my see fierce space nightmare takes nuclear i plutonium world tsunami feed fire a enemy. enemy. my disability. tsunami tsunami volcano. volcano. land land flood. hunger enemy. disability. tsunami volcano. land lunges land. torn hurricane fabrics, tsunami restless and fast beneath the waves - DENOTE / DONATE _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:51:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <20041230181019.35174.qmail@web50410.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm not sure what you're advocating. That one ignore the entire issue? Perhaps easier for a non-Jew to say. But it's of course not a question of ferretting out. One would have to be willfully blind not to see the tradition of antisemitism at work in English and American culture and European culture generally and in the literature they produced. As to the supposed confusion of muslims and jews, hogwash. Read some history. It wasn't confused peasants who expelled Jews from England, and it wasn't peasants who preached the pogrom that began the first crusade, any more than it was peasants who destroyed the Albigensians. In countries that did have moslem populations, like Spain, there also seems to have been no confusion: Jews and Moslems were treated terribly, but differently. Moslems were infidels, but they hadn't killed Christ. Jews were expelled or forced to convert in 1492. A separate set of laws forced the same choice on Muslims in various parts of Spain between 1502 and 1526. Disraeli wasn't of Jewish descent. Until his pro forma (and legally necessary) conversion he was Jewish. Your little joke by the way is in bad taste in too many ways to unpack. Maybe you're unaware that "new york jew" continues to be an epithet in this country, and not just in Spicer. Mark At 01:10 PM 12/30/2004, you wrote: >the lost tribes went to Scotland, not Ireland. have you ever noticed how >a New York "jewish" accent resembles that of the highlanders? > >curious. in this obsession in ferretting out anti-semitism in >Shakespeare/Dickens/Eliot, which is either moot or a subject you can >debate until the cows come home, take up knitting and have hot toddies, >there is no acknowledgement of anti-arabism that exists in the same >texts. or rather, anti-semitism, since the distinction is not genetic, >but linguistic (semitic languages, including Arabic and Hebrew). do you >really believe that medieval peasants could distinguish between one >inconoclastic mideastern monotheism from the other, particularly when the >dietary rules were so similar, the attitudes towards scholarship, and >other signifiers of that nothingness, race. yet the delusion >persists. Othello is always thought of a black, i.e. of African origin, >in common thought, but he is of course a Moor and is Muslim and probably >of Arabic descent. > >finally, Shakespeare always deals from both sides of the deck, and >therefore is relatively free of responsibility. it is Dickens and Eliot, >esp., who are blamable, and who should have known better. for chrissakes, >the best prime minister of the 19th century was of Jewish descent, and his >father came up with evolution without doing the leg work. (and waged >propaganda for the Tories in the 1790s, too, but nobody is perfect). > >Vernon Frazer wrote: >Steve, > >As a Scottish-American, I must take exception to your inaccurate >stereotyping. We are not "almost as cheap as," etc. WE ARE CHEAPER! >Everybody needs something to feel proud about. Your post disturbed me so >greatly that instead of writing I'm going to spend my morning counting the >pennies under my mattress. > >Vernon > > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:31 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > >totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature > > >let's get off this jew obsseion already > > >let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe >we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards >almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes >nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no >washy >steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes > >you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:52:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <20041230181019.35174.qmail@web50410.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert, On the light side of this discussion, several people I knew formed the Scottish Power movement in a bar in Palo Alto in 1968. I forget what number pitcher we were on when one of the group declared that we were "one of the lost tribes of Israel." In my condo complex, whose population includes many Jewish people from the Bronx, I haven't detected anything resembling the brogue. As soon as I hear somebody bellow "Aye, laddie!" I'll be sure to let you know. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Corbett Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 1:10 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens the lost tribes went to Scotland, not Ireland. have you ever noticed how a New York "jewish" accent resembles that of the highlanders? curious. in this obsession in ferretting out anti-semitism in Shakespeare/Dickens/Eliot, which is either moot or a subject you can debate until the cows come home, take up knitting and have hot toddies, there is no acknowledgement of anti-arabism that exists in the same texts. or rather, anti-semitism, since the distinction is not genetic, but linguistic (semitic languages, including Arabic and Hebrew). do you really believe that medieval peasants could distinguish between one inconoclastic mideastern monotheism from the other, particularly when the dietary rules were so similar, the attitudes towards scholarship, and other signifiers of that nothingness, race. yet the delusion persists. Othello is always thought of a black, i.e. of African origin, in common thought, but he is of course a Moor and is Muslim and probably of Arabic descent. finally, Shakespeare always deals from both sides of the deck, and therefore is relatively free of responsibility. it is Dickens and Eliot, esp., who are blamable, and who should have known better. for chrissakes, the best prime minister of the 19th century was of Jewish descent, and his father came up with evolution without doing the leg work. (and waged propaganda for the Tories in the 1790s, too, but nobody is perfect). Vernon Frazer wrote: Steve, As a Scottish-American, I must take exception to your inaccurate stereotyping. We are not "almost as cheap as," etc. WE ARE CHEAPER! Everybody needs something to feel proud about. Your post disturbed me so greatly that instead of writing I'm going to spend my morning counting the pennies under my mattress. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:31 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature let's get off this jew obsseion already let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no washy steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:08:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: DENOTE / DONATE In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Allen's break down/in of "tsunami" connects with an experience this morning on my blog where indeed I have a poem entitled "Tsunami/ A Poem" that thoug= h it is an attempt, successful or not, to deal with the consequences of the dead in this disaster, I purposely named the poem "Tsunami/ A Poem", knowin= g that it would register as such in the land of search engines and it would b= e curious to see how many visits (4 so far) that these engines would bring my way (instead of my usual list of poet familiars), and indeed, when I followed the search engines back, I found a list of other Tsunami poems, al= l of which had been written before the event (in fact a book of poems exists with that name), and, in all the cases in which I looked a little further, "Tsunami" was most frequently used, as 'one might imagine', as a metaphor for some turbulent romantic relationship, or metaphor for some other x, y & z, and it was kind of weird - in light of all this incredible death and destruction from "a real tsunami" to see the way in which a kind of poetry of metaphor may become so detached from actual natural facts (not to say that couples, for example, don=B9t have real turbulent relationships from which some die) but in the light of "the real" it was kind of embarrassing, or sometimes, as it is, even embarrassing to tell anyone in general that yo= u are poet because they may well be thinking that what you write is filled with some kind of dreamy-assed metaphors to which they may be attracted, or have embraced "as poetry", a metaphor such as a "tsunami" with no coherence whatsoever with the object or event to which it is seemingly or "poetically= " yoked. Just the facts, m'am. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > DENOTE / DONATE >=20 > network 24: "tsunami" bssid: "00:02:8a:4b:14:c1" > network 24: "tsunami" bssid: "00:02:8a:4b:14:c1" > so many 0s -/- 1s in a pixellised tsunami > whatt!!pixellised tsunami so far > pixellised tsunami so what > e pixellised tsunami >=20 > "I shouted out, 'Who killed Kennedy?' > When after all, it was you and me." >=20 > - Mick Jagger in Sympathy for the Devil Godard - the weather is hurricane= , > tornado, blizzard, tsunami, monsoon, earthquake, absent ocean soliton, > tsunami splashing against universal origins. within torn hurricane > fabrics, tsunami restless and fast beneath the waves, among the seas and > shores of the untoward chasms of the body, that tsunami by the _wish_ > itself. it's a hurricane! tsunami! typhoon, "table wind." we travel to > beppu where we make a big storm and a tsunami fills all slow waves, > tsunami, across the chest, down neck and spinal column. the water is! how > huge tsunami are. how the weight of water bears down. we're monsoon, > they're tsunami the truth of the clouds: my dying in your torn hurricane > fabrics, tsunami restless and fast beneath the waves, tidal waves, tsunam= i > bring on tsunami. i take you on down. what'd i tell you. i take you all, > come on tsunami. i take you on down. what'd i tell you. i take you you fi= t > in your dream. i come on like hurricane. i bring on tsunami. i hurricane. > i bring o n [interrupt] tsunami. i take you on down. what'd i all us lost > tsunami waters without facing death every minute hour. slips girl when. > crippled. tsunami rotation. age. earthquake my see fierce space nightmare > takes nuclear i plutonium world tsunami feed fire a enemy. enemy. my > disability. tsunami tsunami volcano. volcano. land land flood. hunger > enemy. disability. tsunami volcano. land lunges land. torn hurricane > fabrics, tsunami restless and fast beneath the waves - >=20 > DENOTE / DONATE >=20 >=20 > _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:29:58 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Anti-Semitism vs. Jew-Hatred In-Reply-To: <20041230181019.35174.qmail@web50410.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert wrote: >>curious. in this obsession in ferretting out anti-semitism in Shakespeare/Dickens/Eliot...there is no acknowledgement of anti-arabism that exists in the same texts. or rather, anti-semitism, since the distinction is not genetic, but linguistic (semitic languages, including Arabic and Hebrew)<< A fair enough point, given what I understand the history of the term anti-Semitism to be, and it is worth thinking about what it means to apply a term like anti-Semitism, which I think was coined in the 19th century (though I could be wrong), retroactively by at least several centuries. And it is worth, as well, thinking about how we use that term now that anti-Arab racism is emerging more and more virulently and violently. Most of the Jews in the US, after all, are ethnically not Semitic, while Arabs, pretty much by definition, are. (I know that there is evidence that Jews from just about anywhere in Europe have more genetically in common with, say, an Arab Iraqi than their non-Jewish European counterparts, but a genetic identity is not the same thing as an ethnic one.) For me, when talking about ideas about Jews before the 19th century, it is much more accurate and descriptive to use the expression Jew-hatred, and I am coming to think, though I am not yet entirely convinced, that I like the term a whole lot better than anti-Semitism in general. At the very least, the expression Jew-hatred makes it harder to use Robert's linguistic question/assertion to do this to get around having to confront the phenomenon of Jew-hatred on its own terms--and, Robert, just to be clear about this, because I don't want to get into an argument here, I am not suggesting you made the point about language in order to avoid anything. I am merely pointing out that the point you made is one that people do in fact use to avoid having to deal with Jew-hating, whether their own or someone else's. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:50:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism vs. Jew-Hatred MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jew-Hatred / Smash-Hit Tsunami #00001 Lettuce, one syllable, bliss, buds of analysis. prettiest startled me tinkering around with tintinnabulating penis unseen lightbulbs, devolving in love with bristles, impenetrable sapling's trembling gooey smudges, darkest snout, brained apotropaically dissected flattened love, wingless, drenched, consternation, foreskin flimsy intuitions, utter wetter, distilled taut air decays unlost in moaning, haunt of lacy glancing off the particularly with bristles, impenetrable sapling's trembling gooey smudges, darkest snout, brained apotropaically dissected flattened love, wingless, drenched, consternation, foreskin flimsy intuitions, utter wetter, distilled taut headlines, drips of howitzer, quirky facts rims aloft, honed inculcated darkness. the particularly with tintinnabulating penis unseen lightbulbs, devolving in love with tintinnabulating penis unseen lightbulbs, devolving in moaning, haunt of rough forgotten wool's moist fricative's jawbone. muzzle, my adroitly of analysis. prettiest startled me tinkering around with the the pretty limpid noises, downcast knobby breath, pale efficacious fertile inviolable pneuma rot, of skin, infectious holes, rattling the sorrow's tallow, poignant as I felt vertically preening splendor, stoplight, gnat lode, Radiant exultation, filthy cipher, actually aglitter, whittling cunt sticky sentences words of howitzer, quirky facts rims aloft, honed inculcated darkness. the sorrow's tallow, poignant as I am in moaning, haunt of analysis. prettiest startled me tinkering around with bristles, impenetrable sapling's trembling gooey smudges, darkest snout, brained apotropaically dissected flattened love, wingless, drenched, consternation, foreskin flimsy intuitions, utter wetter, distilled taut headlines, drips of hell, baize fur hole, nowhere, irresistible imbricated objects genuflecting, glow, core peeled precipice, iridescent night peeking, barest exhausted calculations mingling impulses of splendid assuaged, obliquely rearview mirror. relieving itself on the sorrow's tallow, poignant compulsions, a poignant compulsions, a tongue, starstruck debris of edible pansies, augury: congruent dump, mud bone illuminated, impermeable disentangled pollen, flickering flames of perfectly discrepancies of insistently clatter, splashing thigh reflectors nearly alone, The word whistled while shaft, speared speeches, colors, wreaks havoc in moaning, haunt of hell, baize fur hole, nowhere, irresistible imbricated objects genuflecting, glow, core peeled precipice, iridescent night peeking, barest exhausted calculations mingling impulses of light putrefaction, sloshed wilder abscesses: indifferently headlights, astonishing iris flesh, waking rapt, trough, enervating slickster, naked curves, testicles, quartz wound, stammering blunders, mercy without a tongue, starstruck debris of exacerbated in moaning, haunt of insistently clatter, splashing thigh reflectors nearly alone, The word whistled while trance, motionless the the stimulating delicacy irreducibly dented mud gnawed glory, sublime wires' faintly twitching pronouns being faintly word whistled while shaft, speared speeches, colors, wreaks havoc in the stimulating delicacy irreducibly dented mud bone illuminated, impermeable disentangled pollen, flickering flames of analysis. prettiest startled me tinkering around with bristles, impenetrable sapling's trembling gooey smudges, darkest snout, brained apotropaically dissected flattened love, wingless, drenched, consternation, foreskin flimsy intuitions, utter wetter, distilled taut air decays unlost in water's my adroitly of musky I am in the stimulating delicacy irreducibly dented mud bone illuminated, impermeable disentangled pollen, flickering flames of perfectly discrepancies of exacerbated in moaning, haunt of howitzer, quirky facts rims aloft, honed inculcated darkness. the sorrow's tallow, poignant as I touched particles uniquely dissenting, toppled blood, rusted prettily whistles while shaft, speared speeches, colors, wreaks havoc in water's my uselessly shining manure, eye lunatic, clutter exalting sop, swirl, mouthharp, hard stunned slanting, pleasures of lacy glancing off the textualloyic, the disgrace of exacerbated in the stimulating delicacy irreducibly dented mud gnawed glory, sublime wires' faintly twitching pronouns being faintly twitching pronouns being faintly twitching pronouns being faintly twitching pronouns being faintly twitching pronouns being faintly twitching pronouns being faintly word whistled while shaft, speared speeches, colors, wreaks havoc in the textualloyic, the disgrace of rough forgotten wool's moist fricative's jawbone. muzzle, my adroitly of skin, infectious holes, rattling the stimulating delicacy irreducibly dented mud gnawed glory, sublime wires' faintly twitching pronouns being faintly twitching pronouns being faintly twitching pronouns being faintly twitching pronouns being faintly word "decay" entering, quavering cock I touched particles uniquely dissenting, toppled blood, rusted prettily whistles while shaft, speared speeches, colors, wreaks havoc in love with bristles, impenetrable sapling's trembling gooey smudges, darkest snout, brained apotropaically dissected flattened love, wingless, drenched, consternation, foreskin flimsy intuitions, utter wetter, distilled taut headlines, drips of only inches within me. coiling, melting innate come what may came, bud, burst spines outcry interruptions Lustrous strictures, petiole grovelling, compulsions, a poignant compulsions, entangling, irritating: belching, diminishing, pissing: taut headlines, drips of semen, burnt pink, frenzied ache, purged occurrences of exacerbated in the disgrace of edible pansies, augury: congruent dump, mud bone illuminated, impermeable disentangled pollen, flickering flames of hell, baize fur hole, nowhere, irresistible imbricated objects genuflecting, glow, core peeled precipice, iridescent night peeking, barest exhausted calculations mingling impulses heliotropic scents.=20 August Highland www.august-highland.com www.litob.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:56:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Allen's Right To Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlogStein / Self-Dignifying Disaster #00001 The stimulating air decays unlost bliss, buds of flames of perfectly exalting sop, swirl, havoc in darkest snout, brained smudges, faintly twitching knobby breath, pansies, augury: delicacy trembling gooey drenched, consternation, exhausted gooey drenched, wires' faintly word whistled tinkering flattened faintly twitching pollen, speared speeches, infectious holes, impenetrable sapling's bone impulses of musky I felt vertically headlines, drips of darkest snout, brained apotropaically dissected adroitly pollen, speared sentences words of skin, love, wingless, drenched, wires' faintly twitching lettuce, one syllable, in moaning, haunt of exacerbated in moaning, pronouns being delicacy irreducibly devolving in peeking, barest faintly word whistled particles Lustrous strictures, twitching pronouns being calculations mingling impulses of rough quavering cock I am wingless, drenched, consternation, foreskin flimsy gnawed glory, sublime particles uniquely 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disentangled foreskin flimsy slickster, naked curves, inculcated darkness. the disgrace of howitzer, quirky facts howitzer, quirky facts toppled blood, rusted wetter, distilled taut abscesses: indifferently colors, wreaks astonishing iris flesh, howitzer, quirky facts rims aloft, honed impenetrable pollen, speared speeches, tintinnabulating penis unseen lightbulbs, flattened love, of perfectly discrepancies poignant as taut darkest burst spines outcry splashing thigh hell, baize fur hole, nowhere, irresistible wingless, drenched, consternation, foreskin iridescent night diminishing, pissing: darkness. the sorrow's prettily whistles impulses of exacerbated in dented mud twitching discrepancies of congruent dump, mud bone illuminated, dented mud bone intuitions, utter jawbone. muzzle, my I am wingless, forgotten wool's moist objects genuflecting, flattened love, wingless, particularly with illuminated, flattened love, of analysis. the peeled precipice, illuminated, mingling impulses of 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the stimulating air decays unlost bliss, buds of enervating headlines, drips of musky I am wingless, forgotten wool's moist fricative's wingless, forgotten wool's around with particularly with the the sorrow's darkness. the peeled precipice, gnawed glory, sublime wires' faintly word adroitly of of inculcated darkness. the the sorrow's darkness. the delicacy irreducibly prettily whistles impulses of of edible petiole grovelling, sorrow's prettily whistles while shaft, speared speeches, colors, wreaks astonishing iris flesh, howitzer, quirky facts rims aloft, honed preening splendor, faintly The word adroitly of speeches, infectious holes, with precipice, while shaft, pale efficacious fertile compulsions, a tongue, havoc in the sorrow's tallow, poignant as I touched within me. coiling, unseen lightbulbs, flattened love, wingless, drenched, wires' faintly glow, core peeled precipice, while trance, motionless apotropaically dissected while shaft, speared speeches, tintinnabulating glow, 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lacy foreskin in water's my uselessly shining flimsy gnawed glory, sublime shaft, speared peeking, barest faintly word whistled sublime wires' devolving in love with illuminated, dented mud bone intuitions, utter exacerbated in what may came, bud, purged occurrences of moist objects genuflecting, pansies, augury: delicacy irreducibly blood, rusted wetter, distilled taut abscesses: indifferently colors, wreaks havoc in moaning, haunt of enervating headlines, consternation, foreskin iridescent night melting innate come iridescent night diminishing, pissing: darkness. the stimulating lunatic, clutter objects genuflecting, stunned slanting, interruptions exhausted gooey smudges, rims aloft, honed preening splendor, faintly The word whistled tinkering around with illuminated, headlights, in love with Radiant exultation, prettiest startled me prettiest startled me tinkering around with precipice, gnawed glory, sublime shaft, speared speeches, tintinnabulating penis intuitions, utter wetter, distilled taut headlines, drips of debris of of edible belching, bristles, moaning, pronouns wreaks havoc in darkest snout, reflectors nearly alone, aglitter, wetter, distilled taut drenched, consternation, exhausted gooey smudges, analysis. being faintly reflectors nearly alone, aglitter, wetter, distilled taut pronouns being faintly glow, core whittling cunt sticky impermeable disentangled foreskin in love wetter, distilled taut darkest rough forgotten wool's moist objects genuflecting, stunned slanting, interruptions exhausted calculations mingling baize fur hole, startled me tinkering around scents. putrefaction, tintinnabulating glow, core peeled precipice, while shaft, pale efficacious fertile compulsions, a tongue, havoc in around scents. putrefaction, tintinnabulating penis unseen lightbulbs, "decay" entering, brained apotropaically dissected inculcated darkness. the peeled dissected twitching apotropaically testicles, quartz wound, drips of only inches with precipice, gnawed glory, sublime particles Lustrous strictures, twitching pronouns being tintinnabulating penis intuitions, utter wetter, distilled taut abscesses: indifferently colors, wreaks havoc in water's peeking, barest iridescent night intuitions, utter wetter, distilled taut headlines, consternation, exhausted calculations mingling impulses of speeches, colors, wreaks havoc in dented mud bone illuminated, flattened splashing thigh hell, delicacy irreducibly blood, rusted intuitions, utter wetter, distilled taut in love with the textualloyic, the lacy foreskin in love with precipice, gnawed glory, sublime shaft, speared peeking, barest tallow, poignant textualloyic, the the stimulating unseen lightbulbs, flattened love, compulsions, analysis. the stimulating unseen lightbulbs, "decay" entering, brained impenetrable sapling's trembling gooey smudges, darkest rough forgotten wool's around with the stimulating lunatic, clutter objects genuflecting, pansies, augury: delicacy irreducibly dented mud compulsions, analysis. the the the sorrow's tallow, poignant as taut drenched, consternation, exhausted clatter, objects genuflecting, flattened faintly pronouns being faintly word whistled particles uniquely trembling gooey smudges, insistently flickering imbricated trembling pollen, flickering flames of haunt of skin, love, wingless, drenched, wires' devolving in love with limpid noises, downcast snout, reflectors nearly alone, tallow, poignant as I felt vertically headlines, consternation, foreskin flimsy slickster, naked curves, inculcated darkness. the delicacy trembling gooey drenched, wires' faintly word adroitly of hell, delicacy irreducibly love, wingless, drenched, peeled dissected inculcated darkness. the the illuminated, mingling impulses of flames of edible petiole grovelling, sorrow's haunt of darkest burst spines outcry splashing thigh hell, baize fur hole, bristles, moaning, haunt of twitching apotropaically dissected while shaft, speared speeches, infectious holes, with precipice, illuminated, headlights, in moaning, haunt of moist fricative's wingless, particularly with limpid noises, downcast snout, brained apotropaically dissected consternation, foreskin iridescent night diminishing, pissing: darkness. the illuminated, dented mud The word whistled sublime wires' devolving in the stimulating penis intuitions, utter jawbone. muzzle, my I felt vertically headlines, drips of fricative's entangling, irritating: snout, reflectors nearly alone, aglitter, wetter, distilled taut darkest rough quavering cock I touched within me. coiling, unseen lightbulbs, flattened love, of twitching discrepancies of enervating headlines, drips of analysis. being faintly irresistible imbricated being faintly twitching knobby breath, pansies, augury: flames of howitzer, quirky uniquely dissenting, toppled exhausted calculations mingling impulses of of twitching lettuce, one syllable, in love with Radiant exultation, prettiest rims aloft, honed impenetrable sapling's bone illuminated, flattened splashing thigh moaning, haunt of semen, burnt headlines, drips of light perfectly exalting sop, swirl, havoc in love with particularly with irresistible imbricated stoplight, gnat lode, impermeable disentangled tinkering around with bristles, consternation, foreskin flimsy gnawed glory, flimsy poignant as taut headlines, drips of semen, burnt headlines, drips of skin, of semen, burnt headlines, drips of light perfectly discrepancies of howitzer, quirky facts toppled exhausted clatter, objects genuflecting, stunned slanting, interruptions exhausted calculations irreducibly love, compulsions, a congruent dump, mud gnawed glory, sublime shaft, speared speeches, colors, wreaks on the sorrow's haunt of semen, burnt headlines, drips of obliquely rearview a congruent dump, mud bone illuminated, headlights, in the disgrace of light perfectly exalting sop, swirl, havoc in around with prettiest infectious holes, with precipice, illuminated, flattened splashing thigh hell, baize fur hole, startled me tinkering around with limpid noises, downcast snout, brained impenetrable sapling's bone illuminated, flattened love, compulsions, a poignant textualloyic, the pretty mouthharp, hard bristles, moaning, haunt of semen, burnt headlines, drips of debris of hell, delicacy irreducibly prettily whistles while shaft, speared speeches, tintinnabulating penis flattened love, splendid assuaged, nowhere, irresistible imbricated being calculations mingling speeches, calculations mingling speeches, colors, wreaks havoc in love with prettiest rims aloft, honed preening splendor, faintly twitching pollen, speared peeking, barest faintly twitching pronouns pronouns being faintly word whistled sloshed wilder air decays unlost colors, twitching lettuce, one syllable, in the lacy glancing off the textualloyic, the the sorrow's tallow, poignant textualloyic, the textualloyic, the lacy glancing off the sorrow's tallow, poignant textualloyic, the pretty mouthharp, hard bristles, waking rapt, trough, pleasures of exacerbated in love with bristles, impenetrable sapling's twitching knobby breath, pansies, augury: flames of skin, of of haunt of congruent dump, mud twitching pronouns being delicacy trembling gooey smudges, insistently clatter, stimulating air decays unlost colors, wreaks on the stimulating dissenting, flimsy debris of skin, of skin, of obliquely rearview a tongue, starstruck disgrace of only inches with bristles, waking rapt, trough, pleasures of rough quavering cock I felt vertically headlines, drips of hell, delicacy irreducibly prettily whistles while trance, motionless apotropaically dissected consternation, exhausted clatter, objects genuflecting, pansies, augury: flames of perfectly discrepancies of only inches with Radiant exultation, prettiest startled me tinkering around with irresistible imbricated trembling pollen, speared speeches, tintinnabulating penis unseen lightbulbs, flattened love, wingless, drenched, consternation, foreskin in love with Radiant exultation, prettiest infectious holes, with precipice, gnawed glory, sublime shaft, speared speeches, colors, twitching pronouns being faintly word adroitly of analysis. the stimulating air decays unlost bliss, buds of only inches with illuminated, mingling baize fur hole, nowhere, sapling's bone stammering rattling the stimulating lunatic, clutter objects genuflecting, stunned slanting, interruptions exhausted clatter, objects genuflecting, flattened splashing thigh hell, baize fur hole, nowhere, sapling's bone illuminated, dented mud twitching pollen, flickering flames of skin, love, splendid assuaged, nowhere, sapling's trembling gooey smudges, darkest rough forgotten wool's around with the pretty mouthharp, hard bristles, impenetrable gooey smudges, rims aloft, honed preening splendor, faintly glow, core whittling cunt sticky impermeable disentangled tinkering bristles, impenetrable sapling's twitching pronouns being faintly word whistled sublime wires' faintly reflectors nearly alone, tallow, while shaft, speared sentences words of rough quavering cock I felt vertically headlines, consternation, while the illuminated, dented mud bone stammering rattling the disgrace of only inches with prettiest infectious holes, impenetrable sapling's bone stammering rattling the stimulating lunatic, clutter objects genuflecting, flattened love, wingless, forgotten wool's moist objects genuflecting, stunned slanting, interruptions exhausted calculations mingling impulses of howitzer, quirky facts rims aloft, honed pronouns being faintly twitching glancing off the pretty mouthharp, hard bristles, waking rapt, trough, pleasures of enervating headlines, drips of rough quavering cock I am wingless, drenched, consternation, foreskin flimsy slickster, naked curves, inculcated darkness. the delicacy trembling gooey smudges, insistently clatter, stimulating unseen lightbulbs, rattling the stimulating air decays unlost colors, wreaks havoc in dented 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reflectors nearly alone, tallow, poignant textualloyic, the lacy foreskin in water's my adroitly of edible petiole grovelling, sorrow's tallow, poignant as I facts howitzer, quirky facts rims aloft, honed preening splendor, faintly pronouns being faintly word adroitly of rough forgotten wool's moist objects genuflecting, stunned slanting, interruptions exhausted calculations irreducibly blood, rusted intuitions, utter delicacy irreducibly love, of lacy foreskin flimsy debris of flames of obliquely rearview a tongue, havoc in the devolving in moaning, impermeable disentangled starstruck glow, core whittling cunt sticky impermeable disentangled foreskin while shaft, speared speeches, calculations irreducibly blood, rusted intuitions, utter delicacy irreducibly devolving in the sorrow's darkness. the devolving in moaning, pronouns being faintly irresistible imbricated being faintly reflectors nearly alone, aglitter, wetter, distilled taut in moaning, haunt of of twitching lettuce, one syllable, in love wetter, distilled taut darkest burst spines outcry splashing thigh hell, delicacy irreducibly devolving in moaning, pronouns wreaks havoc in the pretty mouthharp, hard bristles, impenetrable sapling's bone impulses of edible petiole grovelling, sorrow's prettily whistles while shaft, speared peeking, barest tallow, poignant wires' faintly filthy cipher, actually pink, frenzied ache, dented mud bone intuitions, utter jawbone. muzzle, my uselessly shining flimsy gnawed glory, sublime wires' faintly glow, core peeled dissected while shaft, dented mud bone illuminated, mingling baize fur hole, bristles, impenetrable pollen, speared peeking, barest tallow, poignant as I touched within me. coiling, unseen lightbulbs, rattling the sorrow's haunt of rough quavering cock I am wingless, drenched, sapling's bone intuitions, utter jawbone. muzzle, my adroitly pollen, flickering flames of congruent dump, mud bone stammering rattling the stimulating unseen lightbulbs, rattling the illuminated, mingling speeches, calculations mingling speeches, infectious holes, impenetrable gooey drenched, sapling's twitching pronouns being faintly pronouns being faintly word adroitly pollen, flickering impermeable disentangled starstruck glow, core my uselessly shining flimsy poignant wires' devolving in around scents. putrefaction, tintinnabulating glow, core whittling cunt sticky impermeable disentangled manure, eye faintly word whistled sloshed wilder air decays unlost colors, wreaks havoc in what may came, bud, purged occurrences of lacy foreskin flimsy debris of exacerbated in the illuminated, flattened faintly word whistled sublime particles uniquely trembling gooey smudges, insistently flickering impermeable disentangled starstruck glow, core peeled precipice, illuminated, dented mud bone illuminated, mingling baize fur hole, bristles, waking rapt, trough, pleasures of analysis. the devolving in moaning, haunt of light perfectly discrepancies poignant compulsions, a tongue, starstruck glow, core whittling cunt sticky impermeable disentangled foreskin flimsy poignant textualloyic, the pretty mouthharp, hard bristles, impenetrable gooey smudges, darkest snout, brained smudges, faintly irresistible imbricated stoplight, gnat lode, impermeable disentangled starstruck glow, core my apotropaically testicles, quartz wound, drips of perfectly discrepancies of only inches with limpid noises, downcast snout, brained apotropaically testicles, quartz wound, drips of speeches, calculations mingling speeches, colors, wreaks astonishing iris flesh, howitzer, quirky facts toppled blood, rusted intuitions, utter jawbone. muzzle, my apotropaically dissected twitching pronouns being faintly reflectors nearly alone, tallow, while shaft, speared speeches, infectious holes, impenetrable sapling's speared sentences words of obliquely rearview a tongue, starstruck glow, core whittling cunt sticky impermeable disentangled tinkering around with the stimulating unseen lightbulbs, "decay" entering, brained apotropaically dissected consternation, foreskin iridescent night diminishing, pissing: darkness. the delicacy irreducibly blood, rusted intuitions, utter wetter, distilled taut darkest snout, brained impenetrable pollen, flickering mirror. relieving itself nowhere, irresistible imbricated trembling gooey smudges, analysis. being faintly word whistled particles Lustrous strictures, twitching pronouns wreaks on the stimulating dissenting, flimsy gnawed glory, sublime wires' devolving in the peeled precipice, while shaft, pale efficacious fertile compulsions, a tongue, starstruck glow, core my uselessly shining flimsy gnawed glory, flimsy intuitions, utter exacerbated colors, twitching knobby breath, pansies, augury: flames of only inches with irresistible wingless, drenched, consternation, foreskin flimsy debris of speeches, infectious holes, impenetrable sapling's trembling pollen, flickering flames of enervating headlines, drips of analysis.=20 August Highland www.august-highland.com www.litob.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:17:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <001501c4ee3b$c72d4350$9601a8c0@AaronDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit aaron let me buy you a drink-OK see you at myopic R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Aaron Belz > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:50 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > > > Raymond- You are surely missing my point. I'm not trying to get > PC on your > wop ass. > > I was just wondering: if Dickens had a pronounced anti-Jewish > predisposition, why do we bother so much about folks like Eliot? Robin's > answer was spot on. There's more to Eliot than I had remembered, > especially > in the Sweeney set. The "murderous paws," etc. "Apeneck Sweeney." > Yikes. > > Case closed. > > Chicago Postmodern Poetry --- hmm.... Will you come see me read > at Myopic > in February? Please do, and I'll buy you a drink! > > Aaron > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:39:39 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: rob's clever blog Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new(ish) on rob's clever blog www.robmclennan.blogspot.com - ongoing notes, December 2004 (Gary Barwin, Kemeny Babineau & Erin Bidlake) - detritus (various reviews, links, cartoons) - Rachel Zucker (a New York poet) - a review of Diana Brebners The Ishtar Gate: Last and Selected Poems (The Hugh MacLennan Poetry Series, McGill-Queen's) - some notes on narrative & the long poem: a sequence of sequences - a review of Ian Samuels' The Ubiquitous Big (Coach House Books) etc. -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:57:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens Comments: To: Robert Corbett In-Reply-To: <20041230215855.1473.qmail@web50407.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Almost all of language is "etymologically challenged," which is why we generally follow customary meanings. Western European Rom would be surprised in the extreme to learn that they are muslems, who north of the Iberian peninsula were virtually non-existent by the 10th century except for diplomats and the occasional exotic visitor or castaway sailor. Which doesn't mean that they ceased to play a role in the popular imagination. But imaginary muslims were rarely burned at the stake. Jews weren't so lucky. There are lots of reasons to fear for the world. Until those reasons pass away you might instead fear being misunderstood as a racist. I know something about this: when I first visited my inlaws in North Carolina I made a few joking references to hillbillies. In my world the term is harmless, just fun, not at all like trailer-trash. Not so in theirs, as they were quick to inform me, despite their middle-to-upper class credentials. It would be foolish of me to argue for the term with those who experience it as a slap in the face. I'd suggest the same to you. The peasantry in Andalusia spoke each other's languages. They knew which language to use according to the ethnicity of the people they spoke to. But attendance at mosques vs synagogues, and the use of prayer rugs, and myriad other identifying traits would have told them who was who. This is not a matter of my belief, it's fact, whether you have faith in it or not. I'd suggest you test your faith by doing some reading. Remember, these people lived in very close proximity. The same, by the way, was true in Poland and the rest of the pale of settlement--Christians knew that the guys across the street or down the road were Jews and not Muslims. If the various ethnicities look alike to you I'd be concerned. Said is taken seriously as a historian primarily by literary types. Most historians think he distorts for polemic purposes. I wasn't aware that the discussion was about who was more bigotted. Perhaps I missed that. Mark At 04:58 PM 12/30/2004, you wrote: >Mark, > >I stand by my point that this discussion of who is the bigger bigot >(between Dickens, Shakespeare, & Eliot) is pointless because there is no >way to quantify spite, and we do tend to make provisions for >writers. Yes, there is an anti-semitic strain in European and American >cultural life, but the strain is there for Muslims and Arabs as well, cf. >Orientalism and passim by Edward Said. That is the point of remembering >that term "semitic" is part of a linguistic taxonomy, and that it includes >Arabic. Race is a fiction and until we all understand that, well, I will >continue to parody and undermine the idiotic taxonomies that prop it up. > >I fear for a world where "new york jew" is regularly taken as an epithet >of abuse. But I have been called "European" for being pro-Palestinian >statehood, so... Some context though: I am from North Carolina and went >to Chapel Hill, both of whose citizens regularly go by the nick name >"tarheels." There are noble reasons for this name, but it could just >mean, as usual, "y'all from there are slow." I learned to hear tarheel >this way in Washington state, which is what they called the immigrants >from the Blue Ridge Mts. to Darlington, WA. It's another way of saying >hilly-billy or trailer trash. > >Thanks for the information about the differences in circumstances of the >Muslims and Jews in Spain. It does put my comments in a different >context, although I do not share your faith that peasants would be able to >distinguish so nicely, or not care. The problem with small communities is >that difference itself becomes a problem. (Almodovar's Bad Education is a >bit about that.) At the same time, there is now a presence of Muslims in >Europe and England, and there has always been. (Romani, anybody?) To not >dignify anti-Muslim, anti-Arab bile with the hallowed term (and correct, >linguistically speaking) as "anti-semitic" is at the very least >etymologically challenged. > >Mark Weiss wrote: >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:51:43 -0500 >From: Mark Weiss >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >I'm not sure what you're advocating. That one ignore the entire issue? >Perhaps easier for a non-Jew to say. >But it's of course not a question of ferretting out. One would have to be >willfully blind not to see the tradition of antisemitism at work in English >and American culture and European culture generally and in the literature >they produced. >As to the supposed confusion of muslims and jews, hogwash. Read some >history. It wasn't confused peasants who expelled Jews from England, and it >wasn't peasants who preached the pogrom that began the first crusade, any >more than it was peasants who destroyed the Albigensians. In countries that >did have moslem populations, like Spain, there also seems to have been no >confusion: Jews and Moslems were treated terribly, but differently. Moslems >were infidels, but they hadn't killed Christ. Jews were expelled or forced >to convert in 1492. A separate set of laws forced the same choice on >Muslims in various parts of Spain between 1502 and 1526. >Disraeli wasn't of Jewish descent. Until his pro forma (and legally >necessary) conversion he was Jewish. >Your little joke by the way is in bad taste in too many ways to unpack. >Maybe you're unaware that "new york jew" continues to be an epithet in this >country, and not just in Spicer. >Mark > >At 01:10 PM 12/30/2004, you wrote: > >the lost tribes went to Scotland, not Ireland. have you ever noticed how > >a New York "jewish" accent resembles that of the highlanders? > > > >curious. in this obsession in ferretting out anti-semitism in > >Shakespeare/Dickens/Eliot, which is either moot or a subject you can > >debate until the cows come home, take up knitting and have hot toddies, > >there is no acknowledgement of anti-arabism that exists in the same > >texts. or rather, anti-semitism, since the distinction is not genetic, > >but linguistic (semitic languages, including Arabic and Hebrew). do you > >really believe that medieval peasants could distinguish between one > >inconoclastic mideastern monotheism from the other, particularly when the > >dietary rules were so similar, the attitudes towards scholarship, and > >other signifiers of that nothingness, race. yet the delusion > >persists. Othello is always thought of a black, i.e. of African origin, > >in common thought, but he is of course a Moor and is Muslim and probably > >of Arabic descent. > > > >finally, Shakespeare always deals from both sides of the deck, and > >therefore is relatively free of responsibility. it is Dickens and Eliot, > >esp., who are blamable, and who should have known better. for chrissakes, > >the best prime minister of the 19th century was of Jewish descent, and his > >father came up with evolution without doing the leg work. (and waged > >propaganda for the Tories in the 1790s, too, but nobody is perfect). > > > >Vernon Frazer wrote: > >Steve, > > > >As a Scottish-American, I must take exception to your inaccurate > >stereotyping. We are not "almost as cheap as," etc. WE ARE CHEAPER! > >Everybody needs something to feel proud about. Your post disturbed me so > >greatly that instead of writing I'm going to spend my morning counting the > >pennies under my mattress. > > > >Vernon > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > >Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy > >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:31 PM > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > > > >totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature > > > > > >let's get off this jew obsseion already > > > > > >let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe > >we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards > >almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes > >nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no > >washy > >steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes > > > >you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:30:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: FW: Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com January Issue Profile- Gudding-Borzutsky-Cisneros-Grinnell Plus Profile of Litmus PRess MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JANUARY CHICAGOPOSTMODERNPOETRY.COM January Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com is up with new profiles of Gabriel Gudding, Daniel Borzutsky, Odile Cisneros and E Tracy Grinnell plus a new Small Press Profile of Litmus Press plus all the readings for January February and March. Also, please see our Brazil Global Profile. Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:10:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: radio interview online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" A recent KCRW interview with me by Michael Silverblatt, aka The Bookworm, is now available for listening to online: http://www.kcrw.com/show/bw The interview was taped in Santa Monica in October. Best, Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 02:18:37 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve potter Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens.... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed One reason Dickens maybe gets more slack is he was writing a hundred years earlier than Eliot. Oliver Twist was first published in 1837, Eliot was writing/publishing in the 1930s. A hundred years is a long time. Consider the difference in commmonly held views of African Americans by European Americans in a hundred years, say 1880 to 1980. Racism of every stripe gets less defensible the farther on in time we go. Also, I think some of Eliot's reputation as an anti-semite is from biographical material as well as the writing, testimony from those who knew him. Steve Potter >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:33:07 -0600 >From: Aaron Belz >Subject: anti-semitism in Dickens > >I recently posted this to another list, but no one responded, so I'll post >it here. > >I have been reading _Oliver Twist_ and wondering, along the way, about the >characterization of Fagin, who is most often referred to as "the Jew": >isn't >he a bit of a stereotype, with the filching, the hording, the crooked nose, >etc? There is a similar character in _The Great Gatsby_, if you'll recall, >named Meyer Wolfsheim. Wolfsheim is a racketeer who has helped Gatsby >create >an illegal fortune and then is too selfish even to attend his funeral at >the >end. Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm >wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian sailor >when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this period? >Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? > >Aaron > > >+ + + + + + + > >It was a chill, damp, windy night, when the Jew: buttoning his great-coat >tight round his shrivelled body, and pulling the collar up over his ears so >as completely to obscure the lower part of his face: emerged from his den. >He paused on the step as the door was locked and chained behind him; and >having listened while the boys made all secure, and until their retreating >footsteps were no longer audible, slunk down the street as quickly as he >could. > >The house to which Oliver had been conveyed, was in the neighbourhood of >Whitechapel. The Jew stopped for an instant at the corner of the street; >and, glancing suspiciously round, crossed the road, and struck off in the >direction of Spitalfields. > >The mud lay thick upon the stones, and a black mist hung over the streets; >the rain fell sluggishly down, and everything felt cold and clammy to the >touch. It seemed just the night when it befitted such a being as the Jew to >be abroad. As he glided stealthily along, creeping beneath the shelter of >the walls and doorways, the hideous old man seemed like some loathsome >reptile, engendered in the slime and darkness through which he moved: >crawling forth, by night, in search of some rich offal for a meal. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:14:40 -0000 >From: Robin Hamilton >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > >From: "Aaron Belz" > > > Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm > > wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian sailor > > when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this >period? > > Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? > > "Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" > >eg: > > But this or such was Bleistein's way: > A saggy bending of the knees > And elbows, with the palms turned out, > Chicago Semite Viennese. > >Nineteenth and early 20thC British writing (not to go back to Marlowe and >Shakespeare, leave alone Chaucer's Abbess's Tale) is riddled with >antisemitism. > >The one exception that I can think of is (George) Eliot's _Daniel Deronda_. > >Disraeli, I suppose too, but I don't know his novels. And he was passing. > >Trollope, from this period, is I think more sympathetic to Jews than is >Dickens, but I've had that thrown back in my face. > >To me, the wierdest case is Edgar Wallace's Sanders novels, which on the >face of it are [obviously] racist, but in an odd way are even worse for the >*covert* antisemitism. > >Fagin is a cliché -- there are worse things around from that period. > >RH. > >(Incidentally, Phlebas was a Phoenician, which while it makes him semitic, >puts him in a racial class not simply with Jews but almost anyone who lived >in the Middle East. > >R again.) > >Hey, there's Malamud's short story, "The Jew-Bird" -- *that*s the way to do >it, wind the bastards up. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:16:53 -0500 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > >Yes and check out Edgar Rosenberg, From Shylock to Svengali, Jewish >Stereotypes in English Fiction. You might also want to look at Sandor >Gilman's work. -Alan > > > >nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ >http://www.asondheim.org/ >WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ >http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim >Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:31:37 -0600 >From: Aaron Belz >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > >Alan - thanks for the reference. > >Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a big >difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: >theiving, miserly, and compared to a lizard! It's the animal comparison >that sends off the loudest alarm for me. > >I am not saying there isn't a touch of anti-semitism in Eliot's poetry, but >just to say that it seems a lot more palatable than what's in Dickens, and >you never hear people screaming about Dickens. Perhaps it's Eliot's >connection to Pound that gets him in trouble. > >It makes me terribly angry that there is so much anti-semitism in such a >rich body of literature. It's like a beautiful athlete with cancer or >something! > >Aaron > > > >"Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" > > > >eg: > > > > But this or such was Bleistein's way: > > A saggy bending of the knees > > And elbows, with the palms turned out, > > Chicago Semite Viennese. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:53:12 -0000 >From: Robin Hamilton >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > >From: "Aaron Belz" > > > Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a >big > > difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: > >Oddly, Fagin doesn't bother me that much -- it's simply such a raving >nonsense cartoon that it's impossible to take seriously. > >But there's something seriously wrong about *all* of Eliot's rhymed >octosyllabic quatrain poems from that period -- Sweeney Among the >Nightingales, mate? > >Robin > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:26:47 -0800 >From: Stephen Vincent >Subject: Quoting Disaster > >These quotes (below) come from Jill Jones, an Australian poet, who pulled >them together from news reports, friends, etc. Quite moving, they localize >the disaster for me in ways different than visual media (not that those >hom= >e >video accounts are not without an overwhelming power). >Stephen V >Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > >++ > >Water has taken away my family. - Mother, what's happened? I saw you >yesterday and now you're here. You're not dead, you've gone to another >village. Please come back. - We hope the funds allocated for the >people won't be lost to corruption. - It came just like a river. >People were running here and there. They couldn't decide where to go. >- My son is crying for his mother. I think this is her. I recognise >her hand, but I'm not sure. - There just aren't enough body bags. > >We thought it was the end of the world. =8A The water was as high as a >coconut palm. =8A It was all over in 25 minutes. That's all. How can that >be ... such devastation. - Children in emergency wards were killed. >Soldier patients suffering from malaria helped to evacuate other >patients. - I need baby food as well ... no aid has come to us yet. >- No contact makes us fearful. We're trying to send helicopters there. > - Where is the military? They're just taking care of their families. >There is no war in Aceh now, why don't they help pick up the bodies in >the street? > >This was the only thing we could do. It was a desperate solution. The >bodies were rotting. We gave them a decent burial. - Police told us >to come and have a look at this collection of ID cards. - We met in >university. Is this the fate that we hoped for? My darling, you were >the only hope for me. > >Dead: they are dead, my cousins, their children, many of my husband's >family. There are too many funerals, he has to stay to help them. - >She went under a car, it just went over the top of her. I just got >picked up and chucked against a wall. I was a lucky one: we cheated >death. - Then all of a sudden we saw what looked like a wave surge >into the garden ... at one point I had to scramble up bamboo trees to >avoid the rising water. > >I hope and pray that we can at least find their bodies so that we can >see them one last time and give them a decent burial. - Information >reaching here suggests facilities at Kalpakkam nuclear station may have >been affected by the tidal waves. - We don't have confirmed data =8A - > The TV, everything gone. - I've got calls from people down south who >need clothes to bury their dead. They have none. > >- Wednesday 29 December 2004 > > >Those quoted, in order: >- Anbalakhan, who lost her husband, son and two daughters in the >wrecked village of Karambambari, Tamil Nadu >- a woman at a grave site, Tamil Nadu >- Indonesian House Speaker, Agung Laksono >- Rajith Ekanayake, a security guard at the P&J City shopping centre, >Galle >- Bejkhajorn Saithong, searching for his wife on Khao Lak beach >- Lieutenant-Colonel Budi Santoso, Banda Aceh > >- Sofyan Halim, Banda Aceh >- Citra Nurhayat, a nurse in a Banda Aceh hospital >- Nurhayati, who has only had bananas to feed her 3-month-old baby >since Sunday, Banda Aceh >- Djoko Sumaryono, Indonesian government official, says of Simeulue >- Indra Utama, community leader in Banda Aceh > >- Venerable Baddegama Samitha, a Buddhist monk and former >parliamentarian, at funeral of Queen of the Sea train wreck victims >near Galle >- Premasiri Jayasinghe, Colombo >- a young man at the site of the Queen of the Sea train wreck near Galle > >- Mrs Seeli Packianathan, returning from Sri Lanka, at Sydney Airport >- Les Boardman, returning from Phuket, at Sydney Airport >- Joyce Evans, of Melbourne, in Sri Lanka > >- Kolanda Velu, from Cuddalore, Tamil Nadu >- spokesman, Indian Prime Minister's office >- Indonesian Vice-President Yusuf Kalla, in Medan city >- Roshan Perera, at the Catholic church in Mattakkuliya, Colombo >- Kusum Athukorala, local aid worker, Mattakkuliya, Colombo > >_______________________________________________________ >Jill Jones > >web site: http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~jpjones >blog: http://rubystreet.blogspot.com/ > >Latest books: >Struggle and radiance: ten commentaries (Wild Honey Press) >http://www.wildhoneypress.com > >Screens Jets Heaven. Available now from Salt Publishing >http://www.saltpublishing.com > >------ End of Forwarded Message > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:09:29 -0000 >From: "david.bircumshaw" >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > >This is tricky territory, one HAS to have the mind of a cultural historian >of the first rank to even begin to discuss it, which I >quite freely confess I do not have. But let's make an attempt. The term >'anti-semitism' would have been meaningless to Elizabethans >like Marlowe or Shakespeare, that Marlowe's 'Jew of Malta' relies on a >stereotype, which was quite typical of European culture for >centuries, and Islamic culture too, where Jews were those allowed to raise >interest, unlike the supposedly pure Christians or >Moslems, who happily indulged in the slave trade, Moslems first, then >Christians, after a hiatus, with the assistance of African >chiefs. Marlowe and Shakespeare knew next to nothing about Jews, but >Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on >their head by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish >Shylock, 'The Merchant of Venice', as Kenneth Tynan said, is a >broken-backed play, the messages it gives out are ambiguous, does WS really >side with the Merchants who are as rapacious as Shylock >or does he side with a man who was as so concerned with daughters as WS >seemed to be himself? Well, of course, in typical WS style, >he ain't telling you. The play's the thing. >Dickens cardboard cut-out Fagin is of course a piece of Victorian stage >villainy, altho' Ron Moody's immortal performance in the >musical goes way beyond that , but would anyone be mad enough to suggest >that Dickens' characterisation of Bill Sykes was prejudiced >against the English? I am sick of stereotypes being thrown against >stereotypes, and historically unaware statements being brandished >like rusty swords. One has to be aware of the modes of communication and >understanding between the cultures of the past - it's not >that we now are any better, we're probably worse, and by we I mean right >across the developed world, from the US right through to >Japan via France etc. The people of the further past had even less idea of >other cultures than we do, and the limits of 'our' ideas >are shown with horrible vividness by the bungling by the US-led coalition >in occupied Iraq. The bit that is nasty is the deliberate >anti-semitism that is so evident in the modernist hero Pound, I'll never >forget his comments about Isaac Rosenberg in an letter they >are unrepeatable, , and in an icier, colder, more heartless way, in the >more limited but greater poet Eliot. They knew better. >Racism is everywhere, Jamaicans and Barbadians are prejudiced against each >other, in a general sense, I don't mean every individual >feels like that, China and India are full of ethnic discrimination, even >talking about this is just touching the tip of what waited >for the Titanic, none of us have the right to assume moral superiority, I >damn well know I don't. Cheap thrills to make one feel >somehow better. > >All the Best > >Dave > > >David Bircumshaw > >Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet >& Painting Without Numbers > >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Aaron Belz" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:31 PM >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > > >Alan - thanks for the reference. > >Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a big >difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: >theiving, miserly, and compared to a lizard! It's the animal comparison >that sends off the loudest alarm for me. > >I am not saying there isn't a touch of anti-semitism in Eliot's poetry, but >just to say that it seems a lot more palatable than what's in Dickens, and >you never hear people screaming about Dickens. Perhaps it's Eliot's >connection to Pound that gets him in trouble. > >It makes me terribly angry that there is so much anti-semitism in such a >rich body of literature. It's like a beautiful athlete with cancer or >something! > >Aaron > > > >"Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" > > > >eg: > > > > But this or such was Bleistein's way: > > A saggy bending of the knees > > And elbows, with the palms turned out, > > Chicago Semite Viennese. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:03:35 -0500 >From: Mark Weiss >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > > >Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on their head > >by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish Shylock, > > >In that wonderful speech Shylock in making his claim to humanity catalogues >what were considered the baser human attributes. No mention of the soul or >the "higher" emotions attached to it. This is entirely in keeping with the >standard stereotype. My guess is that the audience, with no more knowledge >of actual Jews than Shakespeare (altho there was a small community of >foreign Jewish merchants in London) would have responded, "yeah, that's >what Jews are like," and Shakespeare asks for that response by having >Portia remind them that "The quality of mercy is not strain'd, It droppeth >as the gentle rain from heaven." Like grace, to which the Jew is immune. > >Mark > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:30:47 -0500 >From: Steve Dalachinksy >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > >totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature > > >let's get off this jew obsseion already > > >let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe >we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards >almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes >nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no >washy >steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes > >you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:21:21 +1300 >From: "richard.tylr" >Subject: Re: Alan's Right To Post > >Alan's "confessional" piece was part of his larger work and was not >neccesarily Alan feeling good or bac it i spartof his larger work and of >course he must keep posting he is one of the very intersting poets/ writers >on here. > >I cant do anything about Tsunamis ..... I am on a kind of hill and there >are a lot of Islands in the Waitemata so I would survive a Tsunami. That's >all that matters. > >Richard Taylor. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "hsn" >To: >Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:50 AM >Subject: Re: Alan's Right To Post > > > > my ma sez, "if you're bored you must be boring" > > > > hsn > > > > > > > > > > On 12/29/04 4:59 AM, "Jesse Glass" wrote: > > > > > Alan has every right to post as much as he wants to any list anywhere. > > > We also have the right to be bored by just about anything he posts. > > > What's new about any of this? Nothing. Alan is not going to stop > > > posting, although--by jing--it looks like he has taken to posting >links > > > instead of epics (thanks Alan!), and we're not going to stop being > > > bored, unless Alan creates something totally un-Alan-like. I'd call > > > that a Mexican stand-off. The big news is that absolutely none of this > > > matters. I'd much rather be bored by Alan in the safety of my own > > > home, than swept away by the Tsunami that has probably drowned at >least > > > two of my students and one of my associates, so I guess it's all in >the > > > way you look at it. I'm still wondering when the Big One is coming to > > > Tokyo, but in the meantime, Alan, feel free. The Ages are looking on. > > > Jesse Glass > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:33:58 -0800 >From: Lewis LaCook >Subject: New Work: LaCook and Kapalin: The Bear > >The Bear >a smash-hit romantic comedy >by Lewis LaCook and Michael Kapalin >http://www.lewislacook.com/video/theBearDIVX.avi >(Div-X avi, 2004: 10.0MB) > >requires installation of the Div-X codec: >http://www.divx.com/ > > > > >*************************************************************************** > >Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/||| > >Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/||| > >XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ > >Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ >Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/ > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:42:04 +1300 >From: "richard.tylr" >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > >Disreali was Jewish - but Eliot also has "The Jew squats in his estaminet". >Fagin couldn't be done again - but Dickens is still a great writer - >Dickens >probably met such types .... the East End of London still has a certain >number of Jewish gangsters (of course not all gangsters in the East end >are >Jewish!!) - but theother day in thelocal some old pommy bloke was raving >about Isreal and how all the big busineses were run by Jews - he was some >old working class character)....but Eliot and all those guys were anti >semitic we have to make sure we avoid it in future. Now I come across >people who are both anti semitic and rave against Arabs - not literary >people as far as I know though...we have to try to be more enlightened I >suppose. > >But we dnt want to get to PC about it all - there will probably always be >racists and nutters around in this mad world. > >What about writers who wrote against anti-semitism etc? > >Richard Taylor >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robin Hamilton" >To: >Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 6:14 AM >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > > > > From: "Aaron Belz" > > > > > Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm > > > wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian >sailor > > > when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this > > period? > > > Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? > > > > "Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" > > > > eg: > > > > But this or such was Bleistein's way: > > A saggy bending of the knees > > And elbows, with the palms turned out, > > Chicago Semite Viennese. > > > > Nineteenth and early 20thC British writing (not to go back to Marlowe >and > > Shakespeare, leave alone Chaucer's Abbess's Tale) is riddled with > > antisemitism. > > > > The one exception that I can think of is (George) Eliot's _Daniel >Deronda_. > > > > Disraeli, I suppose too, but I don't know his novels. And he was >passing. > > > > Trollope, from this period, is I think more sympathetic to Jews than is > > Dickens, but I've had that thrown back in my face. > > > > To me, the wierdest case is Edgar Wallace's Sanders novels, which on the > > face of it are [obviously] racist, but in an odd way are even worse for >the > > *covert* antisemitism. > > > > Fagin is a cliché -- there are worse things around from that period. > > > > RH. > > > > (Incidentally, Phlebas was a Phoenician, which while it makes him >semitic, > > puts him in a racial class not simply with Jews but almost anyone who >lived > > in the Middle East. > > > > R again.) > > > > Hey, there's Malamud's short story, "The Jew-Bird" -- *that*s the way to >do > > it, wind the bastards up. > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:24:07 EST >From: Mary Jo Malo >Subject: quantum in a different light > >steve, i wish i could be more generous too > > >baring the truth > >showing ourselves >justifying >self dignifying >bearing bodies >in the light of others >the only truth >is seeing >sometimes we can't bear the weight >of others losing their light >cloaked as dark matter >often we light the way >demystifying >a way of being >without losing each >precious packet of >endless knowing >always beginning > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:05:24 -0600 >From: Haas Bianchi >Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > >Why not obsess about the fact that the USA was founded with a profound Anti >Catholic and Anti Immigrant bias? > >Or the fact that 30 million people died in the African slave trade? > >or that 50 million native Americans died when the Europeans arrived? > >Or any number of the hundreds of racisms, sexism, homophobisms that exist >around the world? > >How about the fact that the early Feminists like Elizabeth Cady Stanton and >Abolitionists like William Lloyd Garrison and Ralph Waldo Emerson thought >the Irish were subhuman? > >I think WOP stereotypes would would great and as a WOP I give my >permission, >and if you want to use the words DAGO, or MOBSTER or GUINEA fine with this >WOP. > >The fact that 100 years after the Italians arrived in the USA and after we >produced Frank Stella, Joseph Ceravolo, Enrico Fermi,Diane Di Prima, Lee >Iacocca and Joe DiMaggio, and many other great and good people all we hear >about in the popular Media is that we are MAFIA and that any Italian >American who has made must "have a friend with a cut nose", go right ahead. >Just think about this for a moment what if the Sopranos was a show about >Jewish Moneylenders do you think that show would win EMMYs? > >No there would be riots > >Most people are sensitive to the oppression that has been foisted on the >Jews it was always wrong >we are all against this evil- > >- ENOUGH OVERSENSITIVITY WE ALL HAVE STORIES OF OPPRESSION AND BIGOTRY AND >NO ONE ON THE BUFFALO LIST CONDONES OR ENDORSES THESE THINGS WE WOULD HOPE > >No one here is denigrating the Holocaust and if there is an Anti Semite on >the list shame on you for being stupid and ignorant- > >You know we have a role as poets in this society of ours and that is to >oppose the Fascist state that is developing in our nation right now where >are our poets-where is our Akhmatova? our Neruda? our Thomas Mann? > > > >Raymond L Bianchi >chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ >collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy > > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:31 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > > > > > > totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature > > > > > > let's get off this jew obsseion already > > > > > > let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe > > we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards > > almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes > > nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no > > washy > > steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes > > > > you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:40:54 -0800 >From: Jason Nelson >Subject: the waves, the waves > >A very recently finished work that seems to sadly fit >with recent waves. > >http://www.secrettechnology.com/hymns/navigate.html > >Is it? Anyone thoughts? > >Jason Nelson > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. >http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > >------------------------------ > >End of POETICS Digest - 28 Dec 2004 to 29 Dec 2004 (#2004-364) >************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:53:32 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20041230133412.0332e570@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mark: are you saying that anti-Semitism is essentially different from other kinds of racism? The first European progroms, in I think 12thC France (?), were against both Jews and lepers. Both were blamed for the Plague, and similar libels and murderous actions were taken against both. The issue there was scapegoating identifiably other communities. I'm not saying there are not distinctive histories of bigotry, but all these social bigotries and exclusions continuously seem to have similar attributes, up to the present day. Best A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:51:32 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism Comments: To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net In-Reply-To: <20041231030834.UZKF28362.out005.verizon.net@Richard> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable On 31/12/04 2:08 PM, "Richard Jeffrey Newman" wrote: > I=B9ve used up my two posts for today, but I wanted to point out that the b= lood > libel=8Bthe idea that Jews kill Christian children and use their blood in > religious rites=8Bwas used in the 12th century as a reason for killing Jews= , and > it had nothing to do with lepers. Hi Rich I've looked up my source, so can be a little more specific. In his book Ecstasies, a tracing of the witches Sabbath, Carlo Ginsburg has a most interesting chapter on Lepers, Muslims and Jews, and the progroms in 1321 France. The libel used against the lepers was that these people, "diseased in body and soul", were conspiring to poison water supplies to spread their sickness through the community. As a result, lepers were arrested and burned, or populations boarded them in their houses and burned the houses down, and sweeping laws were approved by Phillip V for their segregation an= d confinement in ghettos and prisons. Ginsburg says: "This was the first tim= e in the history of Europe that such a huge program of segregation was undertaken. In succeeding centuries other protagonists would take the lepers' places: the mad, the poor, criminals and Jews. But the lepers led the way." Jews were quickly added to this conspiracy through confessions from lepers that Jews had corrupted them with money and given poison to scatter in various wells. The ingredients, significantly, were human blood, urine, three herbs and a consecrated host. Consequently Jews were massacred. But it seemed, in this particular conspiracy, the Jews were instigated by the Muslim King of Granada, who was in turn inspired by Satan. The accounts of this conspiracy are intricate and contradictory, but links are constantly made between Jews, lepers and Muslims. Jews were blamed for bringing the Plague to Europe by poisoning water supplies. Beggars and paupers and witches were also accused of the same crime. The blood libel - the killing of children for religious rituals - was used against Christians in the first and second centuries by Romans as a reason to persecute Christians (a misunderstanding of the Eucharist). In the Mandean scripture, Christians are accused of killing Jewish babies. In the first century, Jews were supposed to kill Muslim and Christian babies to make passover matzohs, which has been a durable libel through the centuries= . The blood libel turns up famously in Norwich in 1144, when it was used against Jews. It was also one of the major accusations against witches, Knights Templar, Cathars, wiccans, heretics, Roma, neopagans, Druids and even Protestant missionaries. And so on. It's by no means an exclusively Jewish libel. =20 Best A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:50:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: Silence/Stories (Uglybeautycage) Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Begin forwarded message: From: lichtconlon@t-online.de (Ralph Lichtensteiger) Date: Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:22:31 PM America/Chicago To: Silence Subject: Silence/Stories (Uglybeautycage) Dear all, NEW Silence/Stories by Tamara Lai, Miekal And & James Drew... http://www.lichtensteiger.de/stories.html You are all invited to take part in this project! kind regards, ralph lichtensteiger ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 01:21:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There were numerous pogroms in western Europe specifically targeting Jews=20 throughout the 11th century, climaxing in the wholesale slaughter in the=20 Rhineland at the outset of the first crusade, in 1096. No lepers were=20 involved, and no muslims within Europe (tho plenty were slaughtered, along= =20 with Jews and Eastern Christians, after Jerusalem was taken). It's at this= =20 period that expulsions and ghettoization begin. Note that when the Jews=20 were expelled from England and briefly from France in the 12th century=20 there was nary a mention of muslims or lepers. I'm not claiming that antisemitism is different, tho as Rich points out it= =20 was in some ways (no Muslims were ever killed for allegedly mistreating the= =20 sacramental wafer, for instance) but that it's a separate phenomenon=20 through most of its history in Europe, even tho it sometimes comes into=20 play as part of a larger hysteria. This is not to claim any special virtue--there are slaughters enough to go= =20 around. But it has been a pervasive blight in Europe. Ginsburg apparently doesn't think that mass expulsions count as=20 separations. Ghettoization of Jews begins somewhat later, although it was=20 mandated by the church in 1179. The blood libel isn't exclusively applied to Jews, just in an overwhelming= =20 majority of cases. What's your point? Mark At 10:51 PM 12/30/2004, you wrote: >On 31/12/04 2:08 PM, "Richard Jeffrey Newman"= >wrote: > > > I=B9ve used up my two posts for today, but I wanted to point out that= the=20 > blood > > libel=8Bthe idea that Jews kill Christian children and use their blood= in > > religious rites=8Bwas used in the 12th century as a reason for killing= =20 > Jews, and > > it had nothing to do with lepers. > >Hi Rich > >I've looked up my source, so can be a little more specific. In his book >Ecstasies, a tracing of the witches Sabbath, Carlo Ginsburg has a most >interesting chapter on Lepers, Muslims and Jews, and the progroms in 1321 >France. The libel used against the lepers was that these people, "diseased >in body and soul", were conspiring to poison water supplies to spread their >sickness through the community. As a result, lepers were arrested and >burned, or populations boarded them in their houses and burned the houses >down, and sweeping laws were approved by Phillip V for their segregation= and >confinement in ghettos and prisons. Ginsburg says: "This was the first= time >in the history of Europe that such a huge program of segregation was >undertaken. In succeeding centuries other protagonists would take the >lepers' places: the mad, the poor, criminals and Jews. But the lepers led >the way." > >Jews were quickly added to this conspiracy through confessions from lepers >that Jews had corrupted them with money and given poison to scatter in >various wells. The ingredients, significantly, were human blood, urine, >three herbs and a consecrated host. Consequently Jews were massacred. But >it seemed, in this particular conspiracy, the Jews were instigated by the >Muslim King of Granada, who was in turn inspired by Satan. > >The accounts of this conspiracy are intricate and contradictory, but links >are constantly made between Jews, lepers and Muslims. Jews were blamed for >bringing the Plague to Europe by poisoning water supplies. Beggars and >paupers and witches were also accused of the same crime. > >The blood libel - the killing of children for religious rituals - was used >against Christians in the first and second centuries by Romans as a reason >to persecute Christians (a misunderstanding of the Eucharist). In the >Mandean scripture, Christians are accused of killing Jewish babies. In the >first century, Jews were supposed to kill Muslim and Christian babies to >make passover matzohs, which has been a durable libel through the= centuries. >The blood libel turns up famously in Norwich in 1144, when it was used >against Jews. It was also one of the major accusations against witches, >Knights Templar, Cathars, wiccans, heretics, Roma, neopagans, Druids and >even Protestant missionaries. And so on. It's by no means an exclusively >Jewish libel. > >Best > >A > > > > >Alison Croggon > >Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com >Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au >Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:38:09 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Tusnami MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A Sri Lankan student of mine named T.V. Cruz and his Chinese lover informed me that they would be spending the Christmas holidays at Mr. Cruz's family home. In addition, Bob Baxter, his Japanese wife, and their wonderful seven year old son did this year what they do every year--go to one of the smaller Thai islands, rent a bungalo right on the beach, and celebrate the holidays. Bob is an American residing in Japan. I doubt if the Sri Lankan or Chinese lists would be available to anyone reading this. So far the Japanese government is not releasing any names. If anyone does come across these names please let me know back-channel. Thanks, Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 02:02:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Please donate. MODIFIED SINE WAVE ACROSS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed MODIFIED SINE WAVE ACROSS THIS IS TO ADVISE THAT SMALL SEA LEVEL CHANGES COULD CONTINUE TO BE OBSERVED ACROSS THE PACIFIC OVER THE NEXT DAY OR TWO UNTIL ALL ENERGY FROM THIS EVENT IS EVENTUALLY DISSIPATED. :: FROM TO CHANGES THAT IS TWO ENERGY THIS CHANGES LEVEL ALL ALL DISSIPATED. LEVEL COULD TO THIS ALL IS SMALL CONTINUE SMALL EVENTUALLY ALL EVENT ADVISE CONTINUE CHANGES ENERGY FROM IS COULD CONTINUE TO EVENT FROM CHANGES TO SEA EVENTUALLY FROM DISSIPATED. SEA BE COULD THIS IS THAT BE TO ADVISE IS EVENT TO TO OBSERVED SEA DISSIPATED. EVENT THIS CONTINUE ACROSS COULD THIS EVENT DISSIPATED. CHANGES ACROSS BE ADVISE EVENTUALLY DISSIPATED. SEA ACROSS ACROSS LEVEL DISSIPATED. EVENTUALLY ADVISE OBSERVED PACIFIC CONTINUE IS EVENTUALLY IS TO OVER OBSERVED THAT DISSIPATED. THIS COULD PACIFIC THE LEVEL LEVEL PACIFIC OVER CONTINUE IS DISSIPATED. SMALL ACROSS THE ACROSS THAT ADVISE BE NEXT PACIFIC LEVEL THIS IS CONTINUE THE NEXT TO TO IS CHANGES OVER DAY ACROSS SMALL IS SEA PACIFIC OR OVER CHANGES TO THAT OBSERVED OR DAY TO ADVISE ADVISE TO DAY TWO THE SEA ADVISE COULD NEXT UNTIL THE CHANGES ADVISE LEVEL OVER UNTIL OR BE THAT SEA THE UNTIL UNTIL THE SEA SMALL BE TWO ENERGY THE COULD SMALL CONTINUE DAY ENERGY OR BE SEA COULD THE ENERGY ALL THE CHANGES CHANGES PACIFIC ENERGY FROM NEXT CONTINUE LEVEL ACROSS UNTIL THIS TWO OBSERVED CHANGES BE OR EVENT ENERGY PACIFIC COULD CONTINUE NEXT THIS THIS NEXT TO CONTINUE OVER FROM IS UNTIL OBSERVED CONTINUE THE ENERGY EVENTUALLY FROM PACIFIC CONTINUE OBSERVED UNTIL EVENTUALLY EVENT DAY BE BE DAY IS EVENTUALLY UNTIL ACROSS BE THE EVENT FROM OVER BE PACIFIC FROM IS DAY OBSERVED THE ALL UNTIL THE ACROSS TWO DISSIPATED. THIS THE ACROSS DAY IS EVENTUALLY OR THE THE THIS ALL PACIFIC OVER ENERGY THIS THE PACIFIC UNTIL DISSIPATED. OR PACIFIC OR DISSIPATED. ALL OVER NEXT EVENT EVENT NEXT NEXT FROM DISSIPATED. TWO THE ALL ENERGY NEXT TWO EVENT DAY OR EVENTUALLY UNTIL OR THIS ENERGY OR ENERGY IS TWO ALL ALL UNTIL DISSIPATED. FROM UNTIL IS IS UNTIL THIS ENERGY FROM THIS ENERGY EVENTUALLY ENERGY EVENTUALLY FROM EVENT EVENT THIS EVENTUALLY THIS EVENT DISSIPATED. IS EVENTUALLY DISSIPATED. IS EVENTUALLY DISSIPATED. _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 02:15:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Dec 30, 2004, at 10:51 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: > ...In the > first century, Jews were supposed to kill Muslim and Christian babies > to > make passover matzohs, which has been a durable libel through the > centuries. Alison, the muslims didn't start their scene til 5 centurie later, me seems? happy new year, Pierre p.s. note new zip code in snailmail address below: ================================================= "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 02:22:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: written epitaphic double body wave " " MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed written epitaphic double body wave " " death. for -" " _ without without for - The for girl waters flesh arms " -" for _ flesh have has years flesh the "The say, disappeared! disappeared!" 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The body. that tsunami of body epitaphs. epitaphic the by of is epitaphs. _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:30:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Returned mail: see transcript for details In-Reply-To: <00CA3096-58F0-11D9-8E29-000393ABDF48@mwt.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > > I'm quite curious if you can describe in detail the antecedents of > Maximus? > And if I can not, you are not? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 02:06:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit got it now vern as i said privately to ya i've always been a big anti-termite myself ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:40:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <003301c4eddd$04537470$9601a8c0@AaronDell> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What a surprise. It is 19th Century literature, folks. You might even find some insensitive remarks in 19th Century literature about people of African background. gb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:11:32 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20041231005746.033cb970@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 31/12/04 5:21 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > The blood libel isn't exclusively applied to Jews, just in an overwhelming > majority of cases. What's your point? My point is that the patterns of bigotry against minority communities - lepers, Roma, heretics - contain similar patterns. It seems to me that that it might be more profitable to examine phenomena like anti-Semitism by looking at in a larger context, rather than in isolation as as a bigotry that only happens to Jews. It's very often said that the Blood Libel only applies to Jews, and that's incorrect. It's not even an exclusively Christian lie. That's why I asked whether you were saying anti-Semitism was essentially different from other kinds of racism. > the muslims didn't start their scene til 5 centurie later, me seems? Thanks for the correction, Pierre. It's too hot here for my brain to work properly. Happy New Year to you too A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:22:42 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thnx pops sweetbreads kishka all god's chill in 5702 but who's countin' ipod offal thnx pops... 3:00....on the eve a the eve...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:26:20 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable On 31/12/04 7:11 PM, "Alison Croggon" wrote: > It seems to me that that > it might be more profitable to examine phenomena like anti-Semitism by > looking at in a larger context, rather than in isolation as as a bigotry > that only happens to Jews. Damn. Let down by my syntax yet again. Of course anti-Semitism is about Jew Hatred, as Richard (?) succintly put it. But anti-Semitism is one manifestation of larger social pathologies, which have identifiable similarities. =20 Anyway, a connected if sideways thing - I read this today and it made me feel ill. Best A Posted on Thu, Dec. 30, 2004 Why the Japanese internment still matters By Daniel Pipes=20 Middle East Forum=20 For years, it has been my position that the threat of radical Islam implies an imperative to focus security measures on Muslims. If searching for rapists, one looks only at the male population. Similarly, if searching for Islamists (adherents of radical Islam), one looks at the Muslim population. And so, I was encouraged by a just-released Cornell University opinion survey that finds nearly half the U.S. population agreeing with this proposition.=20 Specifically, 44 percent of Americans believe that government authorities should direct special attention toward Muslims living in the United States, either by registering their whereabouts, profiling them, monitoring their mosques or infiltrating their organizations. That's the good news; the bad news is the near-universal disapproval of thi= s realism. Leftist and Islamist organizations have so successfully influenced public opinion that polite society shies away from endorsing a focus on Muslims.=20 In the United States, this intimidation results in large part from a revisionist interpretation of the evacuation, relocation and internment of ethnic Japanese during World War II. Denying that the treatment of ethnic Japanese resulted from legitimate national security concerns, this lobby has established that it resulted solely from a combination of "wartime hysteria" and "racial prejudice." As radical groups like the American Civil Liberties Union wield this interpretation, in the words of columnist Michelle Malkin, "like a bludgeon over the War on Terror debate," they pre-empt efforts to build an effective defense against today's Islamist enemy. The intrepid Malkin, a specialist on immigration, has re-opened the internment file.=20 Her recently published book, bearing the provocative title In Defense of Internment: The Case for Racial Profiling in World War II and the War on Terror (Regnery), starts with the unarguable premise that in time of war, "the survival of the nation comes first." From there, she draws the corollary that "Civil liberties are not sacrosanct." She then reviews the historical record of the early 1940s and finds that: =80=A0 Within hours of the attacks on Pearl Harbor, two U.S. citizens of Japanese ancestry, with no history of anti-Americanism, shockingly collaborated with a Japanese soldier against their fellow Hawaiians. =80=A0 The Japanese government had established "an extensive espionage network within the United States" believed to include hundreds of agents. =80=A0 In contrast to loose talk about "American concentration camps," the relocation camps for Japanese were "Spartan facilities that were for the most part administered humanely." As proof, she notes that more than 200 individuals voluntarily chose to move into the camps. =80=A0 The relocation process itself won praise from Carey McWilliams, a contemporary leftist critic (and future editor of The Nation ), for taking place "without a hitch." =80=A0 A federal panel that reviewed these issues in 1981-83, the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians, was, Malkin explains, "Stacked with left-leaning lawyers, politicians, and civil rights activists -- but not a single military officer or intelligence expert." =80=A0 The apology for internment by Ronald Reagan in 1988, plus the nearly $1.65 billion in reparations paid to former internees, was premised on faulty scholarship. In particular, it largely ignored the top-secret decoding of Japanese diplomatic traffic, codenamed the MAGIC messages, whic= h revealed Tokyo's plans to exploit Japanese-Americans. Malkin has done the singular service of breaking the academic single-note scholarship on a critical subject, cutting through a shabby, stultifying consensus to reveal how, "given what was known and not known at the time," FDR and his staff did the right thing. She correctly concludes that, especially in time of war, governments should take into account nationality, ethnicity, and religious affiliation in thei= r homeland security policies and engage in what she calls "threat profiling." These steps may entail bothersome or offensive measures but, she argues, they are preferable to "being incinerated at your office desk by a flaming hijacked plane."=20 Daniel Pipes is director of the Middle East Forum. www.DanielPipes.org Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 00:38:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Tsunami Disaster - Words for Relief In-Reply-To: <200412310500.iBV50T3k018104@b.mx.sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > @http://transdada.blogspot.com/ > > > Tsunami Disaster - Words for Relief > From: "apotia" > [LGBT - India] > > > Dear Friends > > Your contributions, however small, will help us with the difficult and > seemingly impossible tasks of both immediate relief and long-term > reconstruction for the victims of the tsunami disaster. > > Working in the relief effort can sometimes become a very demoralizing > task. We suffer from crises of confidence and feelings of utter > helplessness. In this context, words, good wishes, and prayers from > people all over the world help us find the courage to go on. > > For the survivors of the disaster, words of comfort can help as much > as material goods to provide emotional relief. > > In order to provide people with a formal forum where they can send in > their messages of comfort and reassurance, we have set up a body > called Words For Relief. We will try and get your messages translated > and out to the people who need to hear your support. > > You can e-mail your messages to: wordsforrelief@gmail.com > > Letters can be addressed to: > Words For Relief > 20 Frankfort Place > Colombo 04 > SRI LANKA > > Please forward this widely. > > In solidarity, > Ali > > P.S. For more updates on the tsunami disaster, my experiences and the > relief effort, please visit my web log at href="http://apotia.blogspot.com">http://apotia.blogspot.com
> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 06:51:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Some Long Term Perspective In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit since everyone on the list wants to talk about this I think it is important to have some long term perspective- Exclusivist Religion exclusivist religion is a creation of Israelite theology see the Torah. Starting with Moses through Joshua the Prophets and down to the centuries after Christ Jews had a religion and a world-view unlike their Roman neighbors of exclusivity one God one and a chosen people. Christianity and Judahism were Rivals in the Roman Empure When Christianity arose Judahism and Christianity were rivals for marketshare for this exclusivity so to speak and a series of events occured that colored the future and these events were not motivated by Anti-Semitism but by competition for converts. First off during the two Jewish uprisings of 70 CE and 135 CE Christians sided more or less with the Romans- they did not support the Jewish rebellion and they used the Destruction of the Temple as a way of obtaining converts, St Paul in fact in his letters always sides with the Romans and against the Jewish authorities. The New Testament is a Retort to Judahism The New Testament was written expressly as a retort and a mission document to contrast Christianity from Judahism. The anti Jewish statements in the New Testament are expressly written for the purpose of showing that Christianity has surpassed Judahism. These were not Anti Semitic statements in the sense we have today but they did plant the seeds for future Anti Semitism. Jamna and the Rabbis At Jamna after the fall of the Temple in 73 CE in Palestine Johannan Ben Zakkai began the work of saving Judahism (not Judaism which arose from the Rabbi's) during this time and later Christians were expelled from Synagogues. This competition continued with Christians and Jews; both missionary religions at this time competing for converts. Both sides used language that today would be viewed as "Anti Semitic" and "anti Christian" . After the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE Jews inside the Roman Empire retained special status, they did not have to sacrifice to the gods or serve in the military. The Persecution of the Christians Christians because most were gentiles did not and when Christians were persecuted Jews like the Christians before them during the rebellions stood by and did nothing. Thus at the moment of Christianity's triumph under Constantine in 330 Jews and Christians had been competing more or less equally for 300 years. This all changed during the Constantine-Theodosius period. Pagans, Gnostic Christians, and Jews were persectuted by Christians. Jews Sided with Pagans But during this period when Pagans regained control the Jews sided with them for example during the period of Julian the Apostate when he persecuted the Christians the Jews sided with him. Then again during the Persian invasion period in the 560's the Jews sided with the Zoroastrians. So the original Anti-Jewish sentiment of Christianity did not arise from a Racial issue but a religious competition that Christianity won. It is interesting to think what would have happened if the Jews had won the competition for converts? would be discussing 2000 years of Anti-Christian Pogroms? Just a question to ponder. Origins of the Blood Libel This is the ground on which Christian anti-semitism is based the original hatred for the Jews was not borne from the whole "christ killer" mindset but out of a competition for souls and conversion in the Roman period. So where does the tradition Jew Hating Christian come from? - I would argue that it comes from the fact that in the 700-800 period half of the Christian world fell to the Muslims- there were no Muslims in France or Italy at that time and the only "other" were Jews and they had contacts with Muslims and other Jews and thus were easy to hate. True Anti Semitism The first true Anti Semitic act in the contemporary sense event occured in Mainz in 1000's when the Crusaders killed that towns Jewish community. The first person to legitimize the Blood Libel was Bernard of Clairvaux who in 1105 called on Christians to attack the Jews it was Bernard who legitimized this. We also have dear Saint Bernard to thank for the whole Madonna/Whore paradigm that has done so much for our world and also for some great poetry so I guess he is kind of the Ezra Pound of his age? I think that it is important to realize that all that I have written about led to later Anti Semitism but that until the Crusader period Anti Semitism was not the cancer that is later became. Also I think it is important to realize that looking at historical events from our perspective-with our sensibilities is often not useful since we cannot truly understand what was happening to a pre-industrial culture that is very unlike our own. Having said that I wonder what people 500 years from now will think when they read that 150,000 died and millions were homeless from a Tidal Wave in Asia and the US is spending less on that distaster than it is spending on the Inauguration of its Faux president? Will they think us bigoted and stupid? Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alison Croggon > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 2:12 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism > > > On 31/12/04 5:21 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > The blood libel isn't exclusively applied to Jews, just in an > overwhelming > > majority of cases. What's your point? > > My point is that the patterns of bigotry against minority communities - > lepers, Roma, heretics - contain similar patterns. It seems to > me that that > it might be more profitable to examine phenomena like anti-Semitism by > looking at in a larger context, rather than in isolation as as a bigotry > that only happens to Jews. It's very often said that the Blood Libel only > applies to Jews, and that's incorrect. It's not even an exclusively > Christian lie. That's why I asked whether you were saying > anti-Semitism was > essentially different from other kinds of racism. > > > the muslims didn't start their scene til 5 centurie later, me seems? > > Thanks for the correction, Pierre. It's too hot here for my brain to work > properly. > > Happy New Year to you too > > A > > Alison Croggon > > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au > Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 07:59:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <20041231.023452.-67885.6.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No wonder you're o into the jazz avant garde. Woody Herman and his Woodchoppers would have chewed your rafters to sawdust. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 2:06 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens got it now vern as i said privately to ya i've always been a big anti-termite myself ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:12:30 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit He was publishing in the 30s, but some of what has been talked here about was published more than 20 years before. Prufrock was ? 08 ? 09? By the 30s he was well on the way to being a pillar of the British constipation There's a general assumption that dickens was in some way wholesome, I think & he tells stories with beginnings and middles and often nice ends. All of this will endear him. Dickens is a thing you say to yourself, in many quarters, without necessarily reading him - over here we have roast beef of old england (fading more than a bit), Dunkirk, Churchill, Queen Mother (irreplaceable, quite irreplaceable), bits of Princess Di (there is a joke there but I won't make it) & Dickens can be part of that in a kittens and mittens way T S Eliot, or Toilets as he has been known, doesn't get to tap into this. So he suffers from the attitude which might say I always suspected he might be because he's a bit difficult, isn't he; whereas Dickens means God bless us everyone and Uncle Pumblechooks's pork pie rather than sponteneous human combustion, dust heaps etc. Though of course that - the dust heaps and so on - is just where the person was perhaps least pro demonisation. Both gentlemen were complex and dealing with complex responses What we now condemn, in the midst of its continuance, was not theirs alone; they were giving voice to what was abroad L -----Original Message----- From: steve potter To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 31 December 2004 02:29 Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens.... >One reason Dickens maybe gets more slack is he was writing a hundred years >earlier than Eliot. Oliver Twist was first published in 1837, Eliot was >writing/publishing in the 1930s. A hundred years is a long time. Consider >the difference in commmonly held views of African Americans by European >Americans in a hundred years, say 1880 to 1980. Racism of every stripe gets >less defensible the farther on in time we go. Also, I think some of Eliot's >reputation as an anti-semite is from biographical material as well as the >writing, testimony from those who knew him. > >Steve Potter > >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:33:07 -0600 >>From: Aaron Belz >>Subject: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>I recently posted this to another list, but no one responded, so I'll post >>it here. >> >>I have been reading _Oliver Twist_ and wondering, along the way, about the >>characterization of Fagin, who is most often referred to as "the Jew": >>isn't >>he a bit of a stereotype, with the filching, the hording, the crooked nose, >>etc? There is a similar character in _The Great Gatsby_, if you'll recall, >>named Meyer Wolfsheim. Wolfsheim is a racketeer who has helped Gatsby >>create >>an illegal fortune and then is too selfish even to attend his funeral at >>the >>end. Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm >>wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian sailor >>when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this period? >>Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? >> >>Aaron >> >> >>+ + + + + + + >> >>It was a chill, damp, windy night, when the Jew: buttoning his great-coat >>tight round his shrivelled body, and pulling the collar up over his ears so >>as completely to obscure the lower part of his face: emerged from his den. >>He paused on the step as the door was locked and chained behind him; and >>having listened while the boys made all secure, and until their retreating >>footsteps were no longer audible, slunk down the street as quickly as he >>could. >> >>The house to which Oliver had been conveyed, was in the neighbourhood of >>Whitechapel. The Jew stopped for an instant at the corner of the street; >>and, glancing suspiciously round, crossed the road, and struck off in the >>direction of Spitalfields. >> >>The mud lay thick upon the stones, and a black mist hung over the streets; >>the rain fell sluggishly down, and everything felt cold and clammy to the >>touch. It seemed just the night when it befitted such a being as the Jew to >>be abroad. As he glided stealthily along, creeping beneath the shelter of >>the walls and doorways, the hideous old man seemed like some loathsome >>reptile, engendered in the slime and darkness through which he moved: >>crawling forth, by night, in search of some rich offal for a meal. >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:14:40 -0000 >>From: Robin Hamilton >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>From: "Aaron Belz" >> >> > Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm >> > wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian sailor >> > when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this >>period? >> > Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? >> >> "Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" >> >>eg: >> >> But this or such was Bleistein's way: >> A saggy bending of the knees >> And elbows, with the palms turned out, >> Chicago Semite Viennese. >> >>Nineteenth and early 20thC British writing (not to go back to Marlowe and >>Shakespeare, leave alone Chaucer's Abbess's Tale) is riddled with >>antisemitism. >> >>The one exception that I can think of is (George) Eliot's _Daniel Deronda_. >> >>Disraeli, I suppose too, but I don't know his novels. And he was passing. >> >>Trollope, from this period, is I think more sympathetic to Jews than is >>Dickens, but I've had that thrown back in my face. >> >>To me, the wierdest case is Edgar Wallace's Sanders novels, which on the >>face of it are [obviously] racist, but in an odd way are even worse for the >>*covert* antisemitism. >> >>Fagin is a cliché -- there are worse things around from that period. >> >>RH. >> >>(Incidentally, Phlebas was a Phoenician, which while it makes him semitic, >>puts him in a racial class not simply with Jews but almost anyone who lived >>in the Middle East. >> >>R again.) >> >>Hey, there's Malamud's short story, "The Jew-Bird" -- *that*s the way to do >>it, wind the bastards up. >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:16:53 -0500 >>From: Alan Sondheim >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>Yes and check out Edgar Rosenberg, From Shylock to Svengali, Jewish >>Stereotypes in English Fiction. You might also want to look at Sandor >>Gilman's work. -Alan >> >> >> >>nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ >>http://www.asondheim.org/ >>WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ >>http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim >>Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:31:37 -0600 >>From: Aaron Belz >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>Alan - thanks for the reference. >> >>Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a big >>difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: >>theiving, miserly, and compared to a lizard! It's the animal comparison >>that sends off the loudest alarm for me. >> >>I am not saying there isn't a touch of anti-semitism in Eliot's poetry, but >>just to say that it seems a lot more palatable than what's in Dickens, and >>you never hear people screaming about Dickens. Perhaps it's Eliot's >>connection to Pound that gets him in trouble. >> >>It makes me terribly angry that there is so much anti-semitism in such a >>rich body of literature. It's like a beautiful athlete with cancer or >>something! >> >>Aaron >> >> >> >"Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" >> > >> >eg: >> > >> > But this or such was Bleistein's way: >> > A saggy bending of the knees >> > And elbows, with the palms turned out, >> > Chicago Semite Viennese. >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:53:12 -0000 >>From: Robin Hamilton >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>From: "Aaron Belz" >> >> > Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a >>big >> > difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: >> >>Oddly, Fagin doesn't bother me that much -- it's simply such a raving >>nonsense cartoon that it's impossible to take seriously. >> >>But there's something seriously wrong about *all* of Eliot's rhymed >>octosyllabic quatrain poems from that period -- Sweeney Among the >>Nightingales, mate? >> >>Robin >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:26:47 -0800 >>From: Stephen Vincent >>Subject: Quoting Disaster >> >>These quotes (below) come from Jill Jones, an Australian poet, who pulled >>them together from news reports, friends, etc. Quite moving, they localize >>the disaster for me in ways different than visual media (not that those >>hom= >>e >>video accounts are not without an overwhelming power). >>Stephen V >>Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com >> >>++ >> >>Water has taken away my family. - Mother, what's happened? I saw you >>yesterday and now you're here. You're not dead, you've gone to another >>village. Please come back. - We hope the funds allocated for the >>people won't be lost to corruption. - It came just like a river. >>People were running here and there. They couldn't decide where to go. >>- My son is crying for his mother. I think this is her. I recognise >>her hand, but I'm not sure. - There just aren't enough body bags. >> >>We thought it was the end of the world. =8A The water was as high as a >>coconut palm. =8A It was all over in 25 minutes. That's all. How can that >>be ... such devastation. - Children in emergency wards were killed. >>Soldier patients suffering from malaria helped to evacuate other >>patients. - I need baby food as well ... no aid has come to us yet. >>- No contact makes us fearful. We're trying to send helicopters there. >> - Where is the military? They're just taking care of their families. >>There is no war in Aceh now, why don't they help pick up the bodies in >>the street? >> >>This was the only thing we could do. It was a desperate solution. The >>bodies were rotting. We gave them a decent burial. - Police told us >>to come and have a look at this collection of ID cards. - We met in >>university. Is this the fate that we hoped for? My darling, you were >>the only hope for me. >> >>Dead: they are dead, my cousins, their children, many of my husband's >>family. There are too many funerals, he has to stay to help them. - >>She went under a car, it just went over the top of her. I just got >>picked up and chucked against a wall. I was a lucky one: we cheated >>death. - Then all of a sudden we saw what looked like a wave surge >>into the garden ... at one point I had to scramble up bamboo trees to >>avoid the rising water. >> >>I hope and pray that we can at least find their bodies so that we can >>see them one last time and give them a decent burial. - Information >>reaching here suggests facilities at Kalpakkam nuclear station may have >>been affected by the tidal waves. - We don't have confirmed data =8A - >> The TV, everything gone. - I've got calls from people down south who >>need clothes to bury their dead. They have none. >> >>- Wednesday 29 December 2004 >> >> >>Those quoted, in order: >>- Anbalakhan, who lost her husband, son and two daughters in the >>wrecked village of Karambambari, Tamil Nadu >>- a woman at a grave site, Tamil Nadu >>- Indonesian House Speaker, Agung Laksono >>- Rajith Ekanayake, a security guard at the P&J City shopping centre, >>Galle >>- Bejkhajorn Saithong, searching for his wife on Khao Lak beach >>- Lieutenant-Colonel Budi Santoso, Banda Aceh >> >>- Sofyan Halim, Banda Aceh >>- Citra Nurhayat, a nurse in a Banda Aceh hospital >>- Nurhayati, who has only had bananas to feed her 3-month-old baby >>since Sunday, Banda Aceh >>- Djoko Sumaryono, Indonesian government official, says of Simeulue >>- Indra Utama, community leader in Banda Aceh >> >>- Venerable Baddegama Samitha, a Buddhist monk and former >>parliamentarian, at funeral of Queen of the Sea train wreck victims >>near Galle >>- Premasiri Jayasinghe, Colombo >>- a young man at the site of the Queen of the Sea train wreck near Galle >> >>- Mrs Seeli Packianathan, returning from Sri Lanka, at Sydney Airport >>- Les Boardman, returning from Phuket, at Sydney Airport >>- Joyce Evans, of Melbourne, in Sri Lanka >> >>- Kolanda Velu, from Cuddalore, Tamil Nadu >>- spokesman, Indian Prime Minister's office >>- Indonesian Vice-President Yusuf Kalla, in Medan city >>- Roshan Perera, at the Catholic church in Mattakkuliya, Colombo >>- Kusum Athukorala, local aid worker, Mattakkuliya, Colombo >> >>_______________________________________________________ >>Jill Jones >> >>web site: http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~jpjones >>blog: http://rubystreet.blogspot.com/ >> >>Latest books: >>Struggle and radiance: ten commentaries (Wild Honey Press) >>http://www.wildhoneypress.com >> >>Screens Jets Heaven. Available now from Salt Publishing >>http://www.saltpublishing.com >> >>------ End of Forwarded Message >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:09:29 -0000 >>From: "david.bircumshaw" >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>This is tricky territory, one HAS to have the mind of a cultural historian >>of the first rank to even begin to discuss it, which I >>quite freely confess I do not have. But let's make an attempt. The term >>'anti-semitism' would have been meaningless to Elizabethans >>like Marlowe or Shakespeare, that Marlowe's 'Jew of Malta' relies on a >>stereotype, which was quite typical of European culture for >>centuries, and Islamic culture too, where Jews were those allowed to raise >>interest, unlike the supposedly pure Christians or >>Moslems, who happily indulged in the slave trade, Moslems first, then >>Christians, after a hiatus, with the assistance of African >>chiefs. Marlowe and Shakespeare knew next to nothing about Jews, but >>Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on >>their head by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish >>Shylock, 'The Merchant of Venice', as Kenneth Tynan said, is a >>broken-backed play, the messages it gives out are ambiguous, does WS really >>side with the Merchants who are as rapacious as Shylock >>or does he side with a man who was as so concerned with daughters as WS >>seemed to be himself? Well, of course, in typical WS style, >>he ain't telling you. The play's the thing. >>Dickens cardboard cut-out Fagin is of course a piece of Victorian stage >>villainy, altho' Ron Moody's immortal performance in the >>musical goes way beyond that , but would anyone be mad enough to suggest >>that Dickens' characterisation of Bill Sykes was prejudiced >>against the English? I am sick of stereotypes being thrown against >>stereotypes, and historically unaware statements being brandished >>like rusty swords. One has to be aware of the modes of communication and >>understanding between the cultures of the past - it's not >>that we now are any better, we're probably worse, and by we I mean right >>across the developed world, from the US right through to >>Japan via France etc. The people of the further past had even less idea of >>other cultures than we do, and the limits of 'our' ideas >>are shown with horrible vividness by the bungling by the US-led coalition >>in occupied Iraq. The bit that is nasty is the deliberate >>anti-semitism that is so evident in the modernist hero Pound, I'll never >>forget his comments about Isaac Rosenberg in an letter they >>are unrepeatable, , and in an icier, colder, more heartless way, in the >>more limited but greater poet Eliot. They knew better. >>Racism is everywhere, Jamaicans and Barbadians are prejudiced against each >>other, in a general sense, I don't mean every individual >>feels like that, China and India are full of ethnic discrimination, even >>talking about this is just touching the tip of what waited >>for the Titanic, none of us have the right to assume moral superiority, I >>damn well know I don't. Cheap thrills to make one feel >>somehow better. >> >>All the Best >> >>Dave >> >> >>David Bircumshaw >> >>Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet >>& Painting Without Numbers >> >>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Aaron Belz" >>To: >>Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:31 PM >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >> >>Alan - thanks for the reference. >> >>Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a big >>difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: >>theiving, miserly, and compared to a lizard! It's the animal comparison >>that sends off the loudest alarm for me. >> >>I am not saying there isn't a touch of anti-semitism in Eliot's poetry, but >>just to say that it seems a lot more palatable than what's in Dickens, and >>you never hear people screaming about Dickens. Perhaps it's Eliot's >>connection to Pound that gets him in trouble. >> >>It makes me terribly angry that there is so much anti-semitism in such a >>rich body of literature. It's like a beautiful athlete with cancer or >>something! >> >>Aaron >> >> >> >"Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" >> > >> >eg: >> > >> > But this or such was Bleistein's way: >> > A saggy bending of the knees >> > And elbows, with the palms turned out, >> > Chicago Semite Viennese. >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:03:35 -0500 >>From: Mark Weiss >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >> >Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on their head >> >by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish Shylock, >> >> >>In that wonderful speech Shylock in making his claim to humanity catalogues >>what were considered the baser human attributes. No mention of the soul or >>the "higher" emotions attached to it. This is entirely in keeping with the >>standard stereotype. My guess is that the audience, with no more knowledge >>of actual Jews than Shakespeare (altho there was a small community of >>foreign Jewish merchants in London) would have responded, "yeah, that's >>what Jews are like," and Shakespeare asks for that response by having >>Portia remind them that "The quality of mercy is not strain'd, It droppeth >>as the gentle rain from heaven." Like grace, to which the Jew is immune. >> >>Mark >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:30:47 -0500 >>From: Steve Dalachinksy >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature >> >> >>let's get off this jew obsseion already >> >> >>let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe >>we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards >>almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes >>nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no >>washy >>steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes >> >>you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:21:21 +1300 >>From: "richard.tylr" >>Subject: Re: Alan's Right To Post >> >>Alan's "confessional" piece was part of his larger work and was not >>neccesarily Alan feeling good or bac it i spartof his larger work and of >>course he must keep posting he is one of the very intersting poets/ writers >>on here. >> >>I cant do anything about Tsunamis ..... I am on a kind of hill and there >>are a lot of Islands in the Waitemata so I would survive a Tsunami. That's >>all that matters. >> >>Richard Taylor. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "hsn" >>To: >>Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:50 AM >>Subject: Re: Alan's Right To Post >> >> >> > my ma sez, "if you're bored you must be boring" >> > >> > hsn >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 12/29/04 4:59 AM, "Jesse Glass" wrote: >> > >> > > Alan has every right to post as much as he wants to any list anywhere. >> > > We also have the right to be bored by just about anything he posts. >> > > What's new about any of this? Nothing. Alan is not going to stop >> > > posting, although--by jing--it looks like he has taken to posting >>links >> > > instead of epics (thanks Alan!), and we're not going to stop being >> > > bored, unless Alan creates something totally un-Alan-like. I'd call >> > > that a Mexican stand-off. The big news is that absolutely none of this >> > > matters. I'd much rather be bored by Alan in the safety of my own >> > > home, than swept away by the Tsunami that has probably drowned at >>least >> > > two of my students and one of my associates, so I guess it's all in >>the >> > > way you look at it. I'm still wondering when the Big One is coming to >> > > Tokyo, but in the meantime, Alan, feel free. The Ages are looking on. >> > > Jesse Glass >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:33:58 -0800 >>From: Lewis LaCook >>Subject: New Work: LaCook and Kapalin: The Bear >> >>The Bear >>a smash-hit romantic comedy >>by Lewis LaCook and Michael Kapalin >>http://www.lewislacook.com/video/theBearDIVX.avi >>(Div-X avi, 2004: 10.0MB) >> >>requires installation of the Div-X codec: >>http://www.divx.com/ >> >> >> >> >>************************************************************************** * >> >>Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/||| >> >>Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/||| >> >>XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ >> >>Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ >>Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/ >> >> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:42:04 +1300 >>From: "richard.tylr" >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>Disreali was Jewish - but Eliot also has "The Jew squats in his estaminet". >>Fagin couldn't be done again - but Dickens is still a great writer - >>Dickens >>probably met such types .... the East End of London still has a certain >>number of Jewish gangsters (of course not all gangsters in the East end >>are >>Jewish!!) - but theother day in thelocal some old pommy bloke was raving >>about Isreal and how all the big busineses were run by Jews - he was some >>old working class character)....but Eliot and all those guys were anti >>semitic we have to make sure we avoid it in future. Now I come across >>people who are both anti semitic and rave against Arabs - not literary >>people as far as I know though...we have to try to be more enlightened I >>suppose. >> >>But we dnt want to get to PC about it all - there will probably always be >>racists and nutters around in this mad world. >> >>What about writers who wrote against anti-semitism etc? >> >>Richard Taylor >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Robin Hamilton" >>To: >>Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 6:14 AM >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >> >> > From: "Aaron Belz" >> > >> > > Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm >> > > wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian >>sailor >> > > when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this >> > period? >> > > Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? >> > >> > "Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" >> > >> > eg: >> > >> > But this or such was Bleistein's way: >> > A saggy bending of the knees >> > And elbows, with the palms turned out, >> > Chicago Semite Viennese. >> > >> > Nineteenth and early 20thC British writing (not to go back to Marlowe >>and >> > Shakespeare, leave alone Chaucer's Abbess's Tale) is riddled with >> > antisemitism. >> > >> > The one exception that I can think of is (George) Eliot's _Daniel >>Deronda_. >> > >> > Disraeli, I suppose too, but I don't know his novels. And he was >>passing. >> > >> > Trollope, from this period, is I think more sympathetic to Jews than is >> > Dickens, but I've had that thrown back in my face. >> > >> > To me, the wierdest case is Edgar Wallace's Sanders novels, which on the >> > face of it are [obviously] racist, but in an odd way are even worse for >>the >> > *covert* antisemitism. >> > >> > Fagin is a cliché -- there are worse things around from that period. >> > >> > RH. >> > >> > (Incidentally, Phlebas was a Phoenician, which while it makes him >>semitic, >> > puts him in a racial class not simply with Jews but almost anyone who >>lived >> > in the Middle East. >> > >> > R again.) >> > >> > Hey, there's Malamud's short story, "The Jew-Bird" -- *that*s the way to >>do >> > it, wind the bastards up. >> > >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:24:07 EST >>From: Mary Jo Malo >>Subject: quantum in a different light >> >>steve, i wish i could be more generous too >> >> >>baring the truth >> >>showing ourselves >>justifying >>self dignifying >>bearing bodies >>in the light of others >>the only truth >>is seeing >>sometimes we can't bear the weight >>of others losing their light >>cloaked as dark matter >>often we light the way >>demystifying >>a way of being >>without losing each >>precious packet of >>endless knowing >>always beginning >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:05:24 -0600 >>From: Haas Bianchi >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>Why not obsess about the fact that the USA was founded with a profound Anti >>Catholic and Anti Immigrant bias? >> >>Or the fact that 30 million people died in the African slave trade? >> >>or that 50 million native Americans died when the Europeans arrived? >> >>Or any number of the hundreds of racisms, sexism, homophobisms that exist >>around the world? >> >>How about the fact that the early Feminists like Elizabeth Cady Stanton and >>Abolitionists like William Lloyd Garrison and Ralph Waldo Emerson thought >>the Irish were subhuman? >> >>I think WOP stereotypes would would great and as a WOP I give my >>permission, >>and if you want to use the words DAGO, or MOBSTER or GUINEA fine with this >>WOP. >> >>The fact that 100 years after the Italians arrived in the USA and after we >>produced Frank Stella, Joseph Ceravolo, Enrico Fermi,Diane Di Prima, Lee >>Iacocca and Joe DiMaggio, and many other great and good people all we hear >>about in the popular Media is that we are MAFIA and that any Italian >>American who has made must "have a friend with a cut nose", go right ahead. >>Just think about this for a moment what if the Sopranos was a show about >>Jewish Moneylenders do you think that show would win EMMYs? >> >>No there would be riots >> >>Most people are sensitive to the oppression that has been foisted on the >>Jews it was always wrong >>we are all against this evil- >> >>- ENOUGH OVERSENSITIVITY WE ALL HAVE STORIES OF OPPRESSION AND BIGOTRY AND >>NO ONE ON THE BUFFALO LIST CONDONES OR ENDORSES THESE THINGS WE WOULD HOPE >> >>No one here is denigrating the Holocaust and if there is an Anti Semite on >>the list shame on you for being stupid and ignorant- >> >>You know we have a role as poets in this society of ours and that is to >>oppose the Fascist state that is developing in our nation right now where >>are our poets-where is our Akhmatova? our Neruda? our Thomas Mann? >> >> >> >>Raymond L Bianchi >>chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ >>collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:31 PM >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> > >> > >> > totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature >> > >> > >> > let's get off this jew obsseion already >> > >> > >> > let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe >> > we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards >> > almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes >> > nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no >> > washy >> > steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes >> > >> > you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? >> > >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:40:54 -0800 >>From: Jason Nelson >>Subject: the waves, the waves >> >>A very recently finished work that seems to sadly fit >>with recent waves. >> >>http://www.secrettechnology.com/hymns/navigate.html >> >>Is it? Anyone thoughts? >> >>Jason Nelson >> >> >> >> >>__________________________________ >>Do you Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. >>http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 >> >>------------------------------ >> >>End of POETICS Digest - 28 Dec 2004 to 29 Dec 2004 (#2004-364) >>************************************************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:02:51 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Some Long Term Perspective MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi -----Original Message----- From: Haas Bianchi To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 31 December 2004 12:57 Subject: Some Long Term Perspective Can you say more about Judahism / Judaism? Or can you point me to a source where I can read about it? I know I don't grasp what you are saying. Maybe this is something I forgot? >The New Testament was written expressly as a retort and a mission document >to contrast Christianity from Judahism. The anti Jewish statements in the >New Testament are expressly written for the purpose of showing that >Christianity has surpassed Judahism. Do you infer that the NT was written for that purpose? These were not Anti Semitic statements >in the sense we have today but they did plant the seeds for future Anti >Semitism. I am trying to think of anything in the NT which could be the *seeds of anti-semitism; but my memory of NT isnt that good. If you have any readily to mind, could you say so I can understand? NB I am taking you literally on seeds. Of course I accept that things were distorted - the crusades would be one example of that ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:46:48 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20041230175651.0333bdc0@pop.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark wrote: >>[I]maginary muslims were rarely burned at the stake. Jews weren't so lucky.<< This is a point that has been running implicitly through Mark's posts in this thread that needs to be underlined again and again. The Jews who were the objects of European Jew-hatred in Shakespeare's time, and for centuries before and centuries after, were real people with real bodies that were bent and broken and burned, and with real lives that were ruined, financially and otherwise, at the whim of whomever happened to have the power to ruin them at the moment. And even as late as the 19th century, when conversion to whichever form of Christianity held sway was the only way for Jews to advance professionally in just about any field they chose to enter, it was real people who were made to choose between their faith and the lives they wanted to lead. And these facts deserve our respect when we talk about Jew-hatred/anti-Semitism in historical, literary, sociological or other terms, because these facts are always, cannot help but be, a subtext of Jew-hatred wherever and however it is expressed. This is not to single Jew-hatred/anti-Semitism out as somehow different from any of the other isms--sexism, racism, etc. To talk about racism in the United States without being accountable to the fact that slavery happened to real people or the fact of, say, the systemic racial bias of how the death penalty is applied, or to talk about the witch burnings, or about marital rape, or reproductive rights, or about all of the ways in which women have been oppressed, without being accountable to the fact that this oppression was visited upon real women with real bodies, is a travesty. The same holds true now, as it did not in Europe at the time of Shakespeare, when we talk about anti-Arab racism. There are Arabs, in Palestine and elsewhere, who are being oppressed and killed simply because they are Arab, and to talk now about this particular manifestation of racism without being accountable to that fact is simply wrong. And it is important to remember this precisely because we are having this conversation in a "space" where language is all we have, where we don't have each other's bodies to react to, where it is so easy to retreat into the images and symbols and values in our cultural imaginary and forget that they are not now and never were all equal in how they apply to the physical world in which we live. As writers we play with words--a very serious kind of play, but it is play nonetheless--which means we play with ideas, and at the level of play all words/ideas *are* in some sense equal. The parallels between and among how Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Asians, women, Latinos are treated in the cultural imaginations of the White Christian west are important and worthy of study, but the symbols, images, words that represent those groups in the cultural imagination have specific histories and to avoid dealing with those histories, to deny them, is an expression, to return to a point I made in an earlier post, of a white (male) (Christian) liberal privilege that only ends up preserving the status quo. And it would seem to me that this concern expressed by Mark, which I have taken in my own direction, would be central to those of us who are writers precisely because we understand how powerful language is and how utterly deadly language can be when it is used to hide truths and misrepresent facts. It will be New Year's Eve when you all receive this. Have a good one! Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:04:36 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" In the first few centuries CE there was no clear distinction between Jews and Christians, who were considered a sect of Jews. So it doesn't really work to say that the blood libel in the first century CE was applied to "both" xians and jews. At 7:11 PM +1100 12/31/04, Alison Croggon wrote: >On 31/12/04 5:21 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > >> The blood libel isn't exclusively applied to Jews, just in an overwhelming >> majority of cases. What's your point? > >My point is that the patterns of bigotry against minority communities - >lepers, Roma, heretics - contain similar patterns. It seems to me that that >it might be more profitable to examine phenomena like anti-Semitism by >looking at in a larger context, rather than in isolation as as a bigotry >that only happens to Jews. It's very often said that the Blood Libel only >applies to Jews, and that's incorrect. It's not even an exclusively >Christian lie. That's why I asked whether you were saying anti-Semitism was >essentially different from other kinds of racism. > >> the muslims didn't start their scene til 5 centurie later, me seems? > >Thanks for the correction, Pierre. It's too hot here for my brain to work >properly. > >Happy New Year to you too > >A > >Alison Croggon > >Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com >Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au >Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:34:36 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: anti- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's probably not poetically modern/pc/or beatific to say this but our beloved Kerouac was also 20th C anti- me self? i'm anti-bigot anti-stupid pro poetry pro loving pro future anti-beatingsomethingtodeath unless with good humor of course anti-whining pro-wining ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:12:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Alison: On a related note to that sickening article/book review on the righ= t to intern the Japanese, if I have not mentioned this before, the majority o= f Japanese interned from California, ironically enough, were the Hiroshima prefecture. UC Berkeley Physics Department, simultaneous with the internmen= t of local Japanese, was developing the nuclear research for the atom bomb that would be dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Now were neighbors, lets be friends. People on the moon must think we are an interesting people! Maybe this - Earth - is also Hell. Sing hard. & Happy New Year all - it's obviously going to take some work! Stephen V > On 31/12/04 7:11 PM, "Alison Croggon" wrote: >=20 >> It seems to me that that >> it might be more profitable to examine phenomena like anti-Semitism by >> looking at in a larger context, rather than in isolation as as a bigotry >> that only happens to Jews. >=20 > Damn. Let down by my syntax yet again. Of course anti-Semitism is about > Jew Hatred, as Richard (?) succintly put it. But anti-Semitism is one > manifestation of larger social pathologies, which have identifiable > similarities. =20 >=20 > Anyway, a connected if sideways thing - I read this today and it made me > feel ill. >=20 > Best >=20 > A >=20 > Posted on Thu, Dec. 30, 2004 >=20 >=20 > Why the Japanese internment still matters >=20 > By Daniel Pipes=20 >=20 > Middle East Forum >=20 >=20 > For years, it has been my position that the threat of radical Islam impli= es > an imperative to focus security measures on Muslims. If searching for > rapists, one looks only at the male population. Similarly, if searching f= or > Islamists (adherents of radical Islam), one looks at the Muslim populatio= n. >=20 > And so, I was encouraged by a just-released Cornell University opinion > survey that finds nearly half the U.S. population agreeing with this > proposition.=20 >=20 > Specifically, 44 percent of Americans believe that government authorities > should direct special attention toward Muslims living in the United State= s, > either by registering their whereabouts, profiling them, monitoring their > mosques or infiltrating their organizations. >=20 > That's the good news; the bad news is the near-universal disapproval of t= his > realism. Leftist and Islamist organizations have so successfully influenc= ed > public opinion that polite society shies away from endorsing a focus on > Muslims.=20 >=20 > In the United States, this intimidation results in large part from a > revisionist interpretation of the evacuation, relocation and internment o= f > ethnic Japanese during World War II. >=20 > Denying that the treatment of ethnic Japanese resulted from legitimate > national security concerns, this lobby has established that it resulted > solely from a combination of "wartime hysteria" and "racial prejudice." >=20 > As radical groups like the American Civil Liberties Union wield this > interpretation, in the words of columnist Michelle Malkin, "like a bludge= on > over the War on Terror debate," they pre-empt efforts to build an effecti= ve > defense against today's Islamist enemy. >=20 > The intrepid Malkin, a specialist on immigration, has re-opened the > internment file.=20 >=20 > Her recently published book, bearing the provocative title In Defense of > Internment: The Case for Racial Profiling in World War II and the War on > Terror (Regnery), starts with the unarguable premise that in time of war, > "the survival of the nation comes first." From there, she draws the > corollary that "Civil liberties are not sacrosanct." >=20 > She then reviews the historical record of the early 1940s and finds that: >=20 > =80=A0 Within hours of the attacks on Pearl Harbor, two U.S. citizens of > Japanese ancestry, with no history of anti-Americanism, shockingly > collaborated with a Japanese soldier against their fellow Hawaiians. >=20 > =80=A0 The Japanese government had established "an extensive espionage networ= k > within the United States" believed to include hundreds of agents. >=20 > =80=A0 In contrast to loose talk about "American concentration camps," the > relocation camps for Japanese were "Spartan facilities that were for the > most part administered humanely." As proof, she notes that more than 200 > individuals voluntarily chose to move into the camps. >=20 > =80=A0 The relocation process itself won praise from Carey McWilliams, a > contemporary leftist critic (and future editor of The Nation ), for takin= g > place "without a hitch." >=20 > =80=A0 A federal panel that reviewed these issues in 1981-83, the Commission = on > Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians, was, Malkin explains, > "Stacked with left-leaning lawyers, politicians, and civil rights activis= ts > -- but not a single military officer or intelligence expert." >=20 > =80=A0 The apology for internment by Ronald Reagan in 1988, plus the nearly > $1.65 billion in reparations paid to former internees, was premised on > faulty scholarship. In particular, it largely ignored the top-secret > decoding of Japanese diplomatic traffic, codenamed the MAGIC messages, wh= ich > revealed Tokyo's plans to exploit Japanese-Americans. >=20 > Malkin has done the singular service of breaking the academic single-note > scholarship on a critical subject, cutting through a shabby, stultifying > consensus to reveal how, "given what was known and not known at the time,= " > FDR and his staff did the right thing. >=20 > She correctly concludes that, especially in time of war, governments shou= ld > take into account nationality, ethnicity, and religious affiliation in th= eir > homeland security policies and engage in what she calls "threat profiling= ." >=20 > These steps may entail bothersome or offensive measures but, she argues, > they are preferable to "being incinerated at your office desk by a flamin= g > hijacked plane."=20 > Daniel Pipes is director of the Middle East Forum. www.DanielPipes.org >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Alison Croggon >=20 > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au > Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 11:30:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens.... In-Reply-To: <00a401c4ef3f$7a0a73e0$fa1486d4@o2p8f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes, exactly. As Shelley said (and this I badly recall) all artists participate in their errors of their and their art reflects as through a distorting mirror the dim reality of that which is this life on earth. Robert Lawrence Upton wrote: He was publishing in the 30s, but some of what has been talked here about was published more than 20 years before. Prufrock was ? 08 ? 09? By the 30s he was well on the way to being a pillar of the British constipation There's a general assumption that dickens was in some way wholesome, I think & he tells stories with beginnings and middles and often nice ends. All of this will endear him. Dickens is a thing you say to yourself, in many quarters, without necessarily reading him - over here we have roast beef of old england (fading more than a bit), Dunkirk, Churchill, Queen Mother (irreplaceable, quite irreplaceable), bits of Princess Di (there is a joke there but I won't make it) & Dickens can be part of that in a kittens and mittens way T S Eliot, or Toilets as he has been known, doesn't get to tap into this. So he suffers from the attitude which might say I always suspected he might be because he's a bit difficult, isn't he; whereas Dickens means God bless us everyone and Uncle Pumblechooks's pork pie rather than sponteneous human combustion, dust heaps etc. Though of course that - the dust heaps and so on - is just where the person was perhaps least pro demonisation. Both gentlemen were complex and dealing with complex responses What we now condemn, in the midst of its continuance, was not theirs alone; they were giving voice to what was abroad L -----Original Message----- From: steve potter To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 31 December 2004 02:29 Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens.... >One reason Dickens maybe gets more slack is he was writing a hundred years >earlier than Eliot. Oliver Twist was first published in 1837, Eliot was >writing/publishing in the 1930s. A hundred years is a long time. Consider >the difference in commmonly held views of African Americans by European >Americans in a hundred years, say 1880 to 1980. Racism of every stripe gets >less defensible the farther on in time we go. Also, I think some of Eliot's >reputation as an anti-semite is from biographical material as well as the >writing, testimony from those who knew him. > >Steve Potter > >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:33:07 -0600 >>From: Aaron Belz >>Subject: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>I recently posted this to another list, but no one responded, so I'll post >>it here. >> >>I have been reading _Oliver Twist_ and wondering, along the way, about the >>characterization of Fagin, who is most often referred to as "the Jew": >>isn't >>he a bit of a stereotype, with the filching, the hording, the crooked nose, >>etc? There is a similar character in _The Great Gatsby_, if you'll recall, >>named Meyer Wolfsheim. Wolfsheim is a racketeer who has helped Gatsby >>create >>an illegal fortune and then is too selfish even to attend his funeral at >>the >>end. Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm >>wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian sailor >>when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this period? >>Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? >> >>Aaron >> >> >>+ + + + + + + >> >>It was a chill, damp, windy night, when the Jew: buttoning his great-coat >>tight round his shrivelled body, and pulling the collar up over his ears so >>as completely to obscure the lower part of his face: emerged from his den. >>He paused on the step as the door was locked and chained behind him; and >>having listened while the boys made all secure, and until their retreating >>footsteps were no longer audible, slunk down the street as quickly as he >>could. >> >>The house to which Oliver had been conveyed, was in the neighbourhood of >>Whitechapel. The Jew stopped for an instant at the corner of the street; >>and, glancing suspiciously round, crossed the road, and struck off in the >>direction of Spitalfields. >> >>The mud lay thick upon the stones, and a black mist hung over the streets; >>the rain fell sluggishly down, and everything felt cold and clammy to the >>touch. It seemed just the night when it befitted such a being as the Jew to >>be abroad. As he glided stealthily along, creeping beneath the shelter of >>the walls and doorways, the hideous old man seemed like some loathsome >>reptile, engendered in the slime and darkness through which he moved: >>crawling forth, by night, in search of some rich offal for a meal. >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:14:40 -0000 >>From: Robin Hamilton >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>From: "Aaron Belz" >> >> > Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm >> > wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian sailor >> > when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this >>period? >> > Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? >> >> "Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" >> >>eg: >> >> But this or such was Bleistein's way: >> A saggy bending of the knees >> And elbows, with the palms turned out, >> Chicago Semite Viennese. >> >>Nineteenth and early 20thC British writing (not to go back to Marlowe and >>Shakespeare, leave alone Chaucer's Abbess's Tale) is riddled with >>antisemitism. >> >>The one exception that I can think of is (George) Eliot's _Daniel Deronda_. >> >>Disraeli, I suppose too, but I don't know his novels. And he was passing. >> >>Trollope, from this period, is I think more sympathetic to Jews than is >>Dickens, but I've had that thrown back in my face. >> >>To me, the wierdest case is Edgar Wallace's Sanders novels, which on the >>face of it are [obviously] racist, but in an odd way are even worse for the >>*covert* antisemitism. >> >>Fagin is a cliché -- there are worse things around from that period. >> >>RH. >> >>(Incidentally, Phlebas was a Phoenician, which while it makes him semitic, >>puts him in a racial class not simply with Jews but almost anyone who lived >>in the Middle East. >> >>R again.) >> >>Hey, there's Malamud's short story, "The Jew-Bird" -- *that*s the way to do >>it, wind the bastards up. >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:16:53 -0500 >>From: Alan Sondheim >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>Yes and check out Edgar Rosenberg, From Shylock to Svengali, Jewish >>Stereotypes in English Fiction. You might also want to look at Sandor >>Gilman's work. -Alan >> >> >> >>nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ >>http://www.asondheim.org/ >>WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ >>http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim >>Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:31:37 -0600 >>From: Aaron Belz >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>Alan - thanks for the reference. >> >>Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a big >>difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: >>theiving, miserly, and compared to a lizard! It's the animal comparison >>that sends off the loudest alarm for me. >> >>I am not saying there isn't a touch of anti-semitism in Eliot's poetry, but >>just to say that it seems a lot more palatable than what's in Dickens, and >>you never hear people screaming about Dickens. Perhaps it's Eliot's >>connection to Pound that gets him in trouble. >> >>It makes me terribly angry that there is so much anti-semitism in such a >>rich body of literature. It's like a beautiful athlete with cancer or >>something! >> >>Aaron >> >> >> >"Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" >> > >> >eg: >> > >> > But this or such was Bleistein's way: >> > A saggy bending of the knees >> > And elbows, with the palms turned out, >> > Chicago Semite Viennese. >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:53:12 -0000 >>From: Robin Hamilton >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>From: "Aaron Belz" >> >> > Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a >>big >> > difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: >> >>Oddly, Fagin doesn't bother me that much -- it's simply such a raving >>nonsense cartoon that it's impossible to take seriously. >> >>But there's something seriously wrong about *all* of Eliot's rhymed >>octosyllabic quatrain poems from that period -- Sweeney Among the >>Nightingales, mate? >> >>Robin >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:26:47 -0800 >>From: Stephen Vincent >>Subject: Quoting Disaster >> >>These quotes (below) come from Jill Jones, an Australian poet, who pulled >>them together from news reports, friends, etc. Quite moving, they localize >>the disaster for me in ways different than visual media (not that those >>hom= >>e >>video accounts are not without an overwhelming power). >>Stephen V >>Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com >> >>++ >> >>Water has taken away my family. - Mother, what's happened? I saw you >>yesterday and now you're here. You're not dead, you've gone to another >>village. Please come back. - We hope the funds allocated for the >>people won't be lost to corruption. - It came just like a river. >>People were running here and there. They couldn't decide where to go. >>- My son is crying for his mother. I think this is her. I recognise >>her hand, but I'm not sure. - There just aren't enough body bags. >> >>We thought it was the end of the world. =8A The water was as high as a >>coconut palm. =8A It was all over in 25 minutes. That's all. How can that >>be ... such devastation. - Children in emergency wards were killed. >>Soldier patients suffering from malaria helped to evacuate other >>patients. - I need baby food as well ... no aid has come to us yet. >>- No contact makes us fearful. We're trying to send helicopters there. >> - Where is the military? They're just taking care of their families. >>There is no war in Aceh now, why don't they help pick up the bodies in >>the street? >> >>This was the only thing we could do. It was a desperate solution. The >>bodies were rotting. We gave them a decent burial. - Police told us >>to come and have a look at this collection of ID cards. - We met in >>university. Is this the fate that we hoped for? My darling, you were >>the only hope for me. >> >>Dead: they are dead, my cousins, their children, many of my husband's >>family. There are too many funerals, he has to stay to help them. - >>She went under a car, it just went over the top of her. I just got >>picked up and chucked against a wall. I was a lucky one: we cheated >>death. - Then all of a sudden we saw what looked like a wave surge >>into the garden ... at one point I had to scramble up bamboo trees to >>avoid the rising water. >> >>I hope and pray that we can at least find their bodies so that we can >>see them one last time and give them a decent burial. - Information >>reaching here suggests facilities at Kalpakkam nuclear station may have >>been affected by the tidal waves. - We don't have confirmed data =8A - >> The TV, everything gone. - I've got calls from people down south who >>need clothes to bury their dead. They have none. >> >>- Wednesday 29 December 2004 >> >> >>Those quoted, in order: >>- Anbalakhan, who lost her husband, son and two daughters in the >>wrecked village of Karambambari, Tamil Nadu >>- a woman at a grave site, Tamil Nadu >>- Indonesian House Speaker, Agung Laksono >>- Rajith Ekanayake, a security guard at the P&J City shopping centre, >>Galle >>- Bejkhajorn Saithong, searching for his wife on Khao Lak beach >>- Lieutenant-Colonel Budi Santoso, Banda Aceh >> >>- Sofyan Halim, Banda Aceh >>- Citra Nurhayat, a nurse in a Banda Aceh hospital >>- Nurhayati, who has only had bananas to feed her 3-month-old baby >>since Sunday, Banda Aceh >>- Djoko Sumaryono, Indonesian government official, says of Simeulue >>- Indra Utama, community leader in Banda Aceh >> >>- Venerable Baddegama Samitha, a Buddhist monk and former >>parliamentarian, at funeral of Queen of the Sea train wreck victims >>near Galle >>- Premasiri Jayasinghe, Colombo >>- a young man at the site of the Queen of the Sea train wreck near Galle >> >>- Mrs Seeli Packianathan, returning from Sri Lanka, at Sydney Airport >>- Les Boardman, returning from Phuket, at Sydney Airport >>- Joyce Evans, of Melbourne, in Sri Lanka >> >>- Kolanda Velu, from Cuddalore, Tamil Nadu >>- spokesman, Indian Prime Minister's office >>- Indonesian Vice-President Yusuf Kalla, in Medan city >>- Roshan Perera, at the Catholic church in Mattakkuliya, Colombo >>- Kusum Athukorala, local aid worker, Mattakkuliya, Colombo >> >>_______________________________________________________ >>Jill Jones >> >>web site: http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~jpjones >>blog: http://rubystreet.blogspot.com/ >> >>Latest books: >>Struggle and radiance: ten commentaries (Wild Honey Press) >>http://www.wildhoneypress.com >> >>Screens Jets Heaven. Available now from Salt Publishing >>http://www.saltpublishing.com >> >>------ End of Forwarded Message >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:09:29 -0000 >>From: "david.bircumshaw" >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>This is tricky territory, one HAS to have the mind of a cultural historian >>of the first rank to even begin to discuss it, which I >>quite freely confess I do not have. But let's make an attempt. The term >>'anti-semitism' would have been meaningless to Elizabethans >>like Marlowe or Shakespeare, that Marlowe's 'Jew of Malta' relies on a >>stereotype, which was quite typical of European culture for >>centuries, and Islamic culture too, where Jews were those allowed to raise >>interest, unlike the supposedly pure Christians or >>Moslems, who happily indulged in the slave trade, Moslems first, then >>Christians, after a hiatus, with the assistance of African >>chiefs. Marlowe and Shakespeare knew next to nothing about Jews, but >>Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on >>their head by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish >>Shylock, 'The Merchant of Venice', as Kenneth Tynan said, is a >>broken-backed play, the messages it gives out are ambiguous, does WS really >>side with the Merchants who are as rapacious as Shylock >>or does he side with a man who was as so concerned with daughters as WS >>seemed to be himself? Well, of course, in typical WS style, >>he ain't telling you. The play's the thing. >>Dickens cardboard cut-out Fagin is of course a piece of Victorian stage >>villainy, altho' Ron Moody's immortal performance in the >>musical goes way beyond that , but would anyone be mad enough to suggest >>that Dickens' characterisation of Bill Sykes was prejudiced >>against the English? I am sick of stereotypes being thrown against >>stereotypes, and historically unaware statements being brandished >>like rusty swords. One has to be aware of the modes of communication and >>understanding between the cultures of the past - it's not >>that we now are any better, we're probably worse, and by we I mean right >>across the developed world, from the US right through to >>Japan via France etc. The people of the further past had even less idea of >>other cultures than we do, and the limits of 'our' ideas >>are shown with horrible vividness by the bungling by the US-led coalition >>in occupied Iraq. The bit that is nasty is the deliberate >>anti-semitism that is so evident in the modernist hero Pound, I'll never >>forget his comments about Isaac Rosenberg in an letter they >>are unrepeatable, , and in an icier, colder, more heartless way, in the >>more limited but greater poet Eliot. They knew better. >>Racism is everywhere, Jamaicans and Barbadians are prejudiced against each >>other, in a general sense, I don't mean every individual >>feels like that, China and India are full of ethnic discrimination, even >>talking about this is just touching the tip of what waited >>for the Titanic, none of us have the right to assume moral superiority, I >>damn well know I don't. Cheap thrills to make one feel >>somehow better. >> >>All the Best >> >>Dave >> >> >>David Bircumshaw >> >>Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet >>& Painting Without Numbers >> >>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Aaron Belz" >>To: >>Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:31 PM >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >> >>Alan - thanks for the reference. >> >>Robin - I had forgotten about Eliot's Bleistein, but i think there's a big >>difference between the stanza you quote and Dickens' portrayal of Fagin: >>theiving, miserly, and compared to a lizard! It's the animal comparison >>that sends off the loudest alarm for me. >> >>I am not saying there isn't a touch of anti-semitism in Eliot's poetry, but >>just to say that it seems a lot more palatable than what's in Dickens, and >>you never hear people screaming about Dickens. Perhaps it's Eliot's >>connection to Pound that gets him in trouble. >> >>It makes me terribly angry that there is so much anti-semitism in such a >>rich body of literature. It's like a beautiful athlete with cancer or >>something! >> >>Aaron >> >> >> >"Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" >> > >> >eg: >> > >> > But this or such was Bleistein's way: >> > A saggy bending of the knees >> > And elbows, with the palms turned out, >> > Chicago Semite Viennese. >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:03:35 -0500 >>From: Mark Weiss >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >> >Shakespeare characteristically turned the simple equations on their head >> >by giving the greatest speech in the play to the devilish Shylock, >> >> >>In that wonderful speech Shylock in making his claim to humanity catalogues >>what were considered the baser human attributes. No mention of the soul or >>the "higher" emotions attached to it. This is entirely in keeping with the >>standard stereotype. My guess is that the audience, with no more knowledge >>of actual Jews than Shakespeare (altho there was a small community of >>foreign Jewish merchants in London) would have responded, "yeah, that's >>what Jews are like," and Shakespeare asks for that response by having >>Portia remind them that "The quality of mercy is not strain'd, It droppeth >>as the gentle rain from heaven." Like grace, to which the Jew is immune. >> >>Mark >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:30:47 -0500 >>From: Steve Dalachinksy >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature >> >> >>let's get off this jew obsseion already >> >> >>let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe >>we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards >>almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes >>nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no >>washy >>steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes >> >>you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:21:21 +1300 >>From: "richard.tylr" >>Subject: Re: Alan's Right To Post >> >>Alan's "confessional" piece was part of his larger work and was not >>neccesarily Alan feeling good or bac it i spartof his larger work and of >>course he must keep posting he is one of the very intersting poets/ writers >>on here. >> >>I cant do anything about Tsunamis ..... I am on a kind of hill and there >>are a lot of Islands in the Waitemata so I would survive a Tsunami. That's >>all that matters. >> >>Richard Taylor. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "hsn" >>To: >>Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:50 AM >>Subject: Re: Alan's Right To Post >> >> >> > my ma sez, "if you're bored you must be boring" >> > >> > hsn >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 12/29/04 4:59 AM, "Jesse Glass" wrote: >> > >> > > Alan has every right to post as much as he wants to any list anywhere. >> > > We also have the right to be bored by just about anything he posts. >> > > What's new about any of this? Nothing. Alan is not going to stop >> > > posting, although--by jing--it looks like he has taken to posting >>links >> > > instead of epics (thanks Alan!), and we're not going to stop being >> > > bored, unless Alan creates something totally un-Alan-like. I'd call >> > > that a Mexican stand-off. The big news is that absolutely none of this >> > > matters. I'd much rather be bored by Alan in the safety of my own >> > > home, than swept away by the Tsunami that has probably drowned at >>least >> > > two of my students and one of my associates, so I guess it's all in >>the >> > > way you look at it. I'm still wondering when the Big One is coming to >> > > Tokyo, but in the meantime, Alan, feel free. The Ages are looking on. >> > > Jesse Glass >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:33:58 -0800 >>From: Lewis LaCook >>Subject: New Work: LaCook and Kapalin: The Bear >> >>The Bear >>a smash-hit romantic comedy >>by Lewis LaCook and Michael Kapalin >>http://www.lewislacook.com/video/theBearDIVX.avi >>(Div-X avi, 2004: 10.0MB) >> >>requires installation of the Div-X codec: >>http://www.divx.com/ >> >> >> >> >>************************************************************************** * >> >>Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/||| >> >>Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/||| >> >>XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ >> >>Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ >>Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/ >> >> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:42:04 +1300 >>From: "richard.tylr" >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>Disreali was Jewish - but Eliot also has "The Jew squats in his estaminet". >>Fagin couldn't be done again - but Dickens is still a great writer - >>Dickens >>probably met such types .... the East End of London still has a certain >>number of Jewish gangsters (of course not all gangsters in the East end >>are >>Jewish!!) - but theother day in thelocal some old pommy bloke was raving >>about Isreal and how all the big busineses were run by Jews - he was some >>old working class character)....but Eliot and all those guys were anti >>semitic we have to make sure we avoid it in future. Now I come across >>people who are both anti semitic and rave against Arabs - not literary >>people as far as I know though...we have to try to be more enlightened I >>suppose. >> >>But we dnt want to get to PC about it all - there will probably always be >>racists and nutters around in this mad world. >> >>What about writers who wrote against anti-semitism etc? >> >>Richard Taylor >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Robin Hamilton" >>To: >>Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 6:14 AM >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >> >> > From: "Aaron Belz" >> > >> > > Anyway, I just got to the following passage in Dickens, and I'm >> > > wondering, why does T. S. Eliot always get hell for his Phonecian >>sailor >> > > when there is so much obvious anti-semitism in literature from this >> > period? >> > > Where else does Eliot portray Jews negatively? >> > >> > "Burbank with a Baedeker: Bleistein with a Cigar" >> > >> > eg: >> > >> > But this or such was Bleistein's way: >> > A saggy bending of the knees >> > And elbows, with the palms turned out, >> > Chicago Semite Viennese. >> > >> > Nineteenth and early 20thC British writing (not to go back to Marlowe >>and >> > Shakespeare, leave alone Chaucer's Abbess's Tale) is riddled with >> > antisemitism. >> > >> > The one exception that I can think of is (George) Eliot's _Daniel >>Deronda_. >> > >> > Disraeli, I suppose too, but I don't know his novels. And he was >>passing. >> > >> > Trollope, from this period, is I think more sympathetic to Jews than is >> > Dickens, but I've had that thrown back in my face. >> > >> > To me, the wierdest case is Edgar Wallace's Sanders novels, which on the >> > face of it are [obviously] racist, but in an odd way are even worse for >>the >> > *covert* antisemitism. >> > >> > Fagin is a cliché -- there are worse things around from that period. >> > >> > RH. >> > >> > (Incidentally, Phlebas was a Phoenician, which while it makes him >>semitic, >> > puts him in a racial class not simply with Jews but almost anyone who >>lived >> > in the Middle East. >> > >> > R again.) >> > >> > Hey, there's Malamud's short story, "The Jew-Bird" -- *that*s the way to >>do >> > it, wind the bastards up. >> > >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:24:07 EST >>From: Mary Jo Malo >>Subject: quantum in a different light >> >>steve, i wish i could be more generous too >> >> >>baring the truth >> >>showing ourselves >>justifying >>self dignifying >>bearing bodies >>in the light of others >>the only truth >>is seeing >>sometimes we can't bear the weight >>of others losing their light >>cloaked as dark matter >>often we light the way >>demystifying >>a way of being >>without losing each >>precious packet of >>endless knowing >>always beginning >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:05:24 -0600 >>From: Haas Bianchi >>Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> >>Why not obsess about the fact that the USA was founded with a profound Anti >>Catholic and Anti Immigrant bias? >> >>Or the fact that 30 million people died in the African slave trade? >> >>or that 50 million native Americans died when the Europeans arrived? >> >>Or any number of the hundreds of racisms, sexism, homophobisms that exist >>around the world? >> >>How about the fact that the early Feminists like Elizabeth Cady Stanton and >>Abolitionists like William Lloyd Garrison and Ralph Waldo Emerson thought >>the Irish were subhuman? >> >>I think WOP stereotypes would would great and as a WOP I give my >>permission, >>and if you want to use the words DAGO, or MOBSTER or GUINEA fine with this >>WOP. >> >>The fact that 100 years after the Italians arrived in the USA and after we >>produced Frank Stella, Joseph Ceravolo, Enrico Fermi,Diane Di Prima, Lee >>Iacocca and Joe DiMaggio, and many other great and good people all we hear >>about in the popular Media is that we are MAFIA and that any Italian >>American who has made must "have a friend with a cut nose", go right ahead. >>Just think about this for a moment what if the Sopranos was a show about >>Jewish Moneylenders do you think that show would win EMMYs? >> >>No there would be riots >> >>Most people are sensitive to the oppression that has been foisted on the >>Jews it was always wrong >>we are all against this evil- >> >>- ENOUGH OVERSENSITIVITY WE ALL HAVE STORIES OF OPPRESSION AND BIGOTRY AND >>NO ONE ON THE BUFFALO LIST CONDONES OR ENDORSES THESE THINGS WE WOULD HOPE >> >>No one here is denigrating the Holocaust and if there is an Anti Semite on >>the list shame on you for being stupid and ignorant- >> >>You know we have a role as poets in this society of ours and that is to >>oppose the Fascist state that is developing in our nation right now where >>are our poets-where is our Akhmatova? our Neruda? our Thomas Mann? >> >> >> >>Raymond L Bianchi >>chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ >>collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinksy >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:31 PM >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens >> > >> > >> > totally jew sterotype s everywhere in history and literature >> > >> > >> > let's get off this jew obsseion already >> > >> > >> > let's do mick stereotypes wop stereotypes n-word stereotypes wowe >> > we could have a ball with that one scottish (those cheap bastards >> > almost as cheap as the jews ) sterotypes >> > nip-stereo types it goes on you gooks out there ya listen no ticky no >> > washy >> > steroeo-phonic stereo types &monophonic stereotypes >> > >> > you got a heart like a dog bulgakov said a polish joke? >> > >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:40:54 -0800 >>From: Jason Nelson >>Subject: the waves, the waves >> >>A very recently finished work that seems to sadly fit >>with recent waves. >> >>http://www.secrettechnology.com/hymns/navigate.html >> >>Is it? Anyone thoughts? >> >>Jason Nelson >> >> >> >> >>__________________________________ >>Do you Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. >>http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 >> >>------------------------------ >> >>End of POETICS Digest - 28 Dec 2004 to 29 Dec 2004 (#2004-364) >>************************************************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 11:38:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: my last post for the year MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Everybody, Have a good New Year. I'll leave you with this: For auld lang syne, my jo For auld lang syne, We'll tak a sing o' kindness yet For auld lang syne. And surely ye'll be your pint stowp! And surely I'll be mine! And we'll take a cup o' kindness yet, For auld lang syne. *** "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It's a very silly place." - King Arthur ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:55:31 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Halo in the mud In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Baudelaire of the Piedmont DAN COLEMAN Columnist Chapel Hill Herald (NC) Saturday, December 25, 2004 Final Edition Editorial Section Page 2 Through all the focus on state and national political matters over the past few months, an important event in the life of Carrboro received inadequate attention. I refer to the August (and august) reappointment of Carrboro's poet laureate, Patrick Herron. With all the decidedly non-lyrical voices coming over the TV and radio during election season and its aftermath, it's refreshing to be able to step back and reflect on the significance of poetry to our lives and culture. Although we often don't credit it today, poetry has been a key factor in marking the changes that accompanied what we consider the development of modern society. One seminal work in defining that relationship was the French poet Baudelaire's 1865 prose poem "Loss of a Halo." Given Carrboro's current focus on downtown traffic flow, it is appropriate to consider Baudelaire's poetic look at a prominent poet who has crossed one of what were then the still recently constructed boulevards of Paris. "I made a sudden move and my halo slipped off my head and fell into the mire of the macadam. I was much too scared to pick is up ... Now I can walk around incognito, do low things, throw myself into every kind of filth just like ordinary mortals." Surely, it is this loss of the halo that adorned the gentlemen poets of an earlier era that opened the door for the poets who described the 20th century. Without that loss, it would hardly have been possible for William Butler Yeats to warn of a "rough beast slouching toward Bethlehem," for T.S. Eliot to wonder "should I then presume," for Allen Ginsberg to howl about "the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness," or for Maya Angelou to stand at Bill Clinton's inauguration and remind us of a time "Before cynicism was a bloody sear across your/Brow and when you yet knew you still/Knew nothing." In 2002, the town of Carrboro picked the halo out of the mud, dusted it off, and handed it to its first poet laureate, Kate Lovelady. Last year, Lovelady named Patrick Herron as her successor and this year, at Herron's suggestion, the term of office was extend to two years, with Herron continuing on. Herron explained last summer that he felt that the longer term was necessary for the laureate to be effective, and should perhaps be as long as four years. "In a town so small, there are simply not that many poets who are willing to work hard as a an ambassador of poetry," he said. I asked Herron why he thought Carrboro in particular was a town with a poet laureate. "We support the arts," he said, "and look to artists for new ways of looking at things and for adding new dimensions to our lives, whether those dimensions are decorative, intellectual or emotional." Herron also believes that Carrboro's political culture is connected to its embracing the arts. "Politics in Carrboro is a rather open and participatory enterprise," he said. "We're welcome to participate and are encouraged to do so. The 'tyranny of the majority' in Carrboro is made up of interests that are of the American minority: progressives, African-Americans, intellectuals, Latinos, GLBTs, artists, environmentalists, activists and so on." Herron believes that poetry is challenged in our society by an orientation toward the visual and an anti-intellectualism fostered by the right wing. Potential poetry readers, he said, are lost through "the systematic destruction of the public school system by the misanthropic right." The contemporary media has largely lost touch with poetry. A century ago, Edwin Markham's "The Man with the Hoe" was printed on the front page of newspapers across the country. Today, a poem fragment might appear in the book review section if at all. Too few of us are familiar with the poetry of the U.S. Poet Laureate Ted Kooser. Is it beyond the pale to imagine the poetry of Kooser, Sharon Olds or Galway Kinnell enlivening an episode of "Friends"? Herron tells me that for every person who reads poetry there are 10 who write it. I would guess that anyone who writes poetry also reads it, and there are more than 5 million poets noted at poetry.com. But that's still a lot less than watch "Desperate Housewives" each week. But last June's first-ever Carrboro Poetry Festival drew 40 poets and standing-room crowds. Herron would like to see more poets who write in a way that both interacts with the austere concerns of other poets and speaks to the hearts and minds of a broader audience. Although that is a fine objective, I asked Herron his top goal as poet laureate. "To find a replacement!" he replied. #30# .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick at proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:58:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: maureen Subject: FW: fiddlin' poet In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A Friend of a friend (you know how that is), Ken Waldman aka "Alaska's Fiddling Poet" will be in town for two gigs at the children's Museum in Garden City on 2/12 and 2/13. They're trying to find an evening gig for him on Sat. 2/12 and possibly Sunday evening 2/13. Does anyone have suggestions for possible venus/opening gigs/appearances? Maureen Picard Robins His act consists of Old Time Fiddle tunes with poetry and vivid story telling of his travels through Alaska Check out Ken's site: Ken Waldman - Alaskan Fiddling Poet And have a Happy New Year! m.m You can check out my top ten Americana C.Ds and other reviews at Freight Train Boogie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:36:26 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Michael Rothenberg's Cielo di Cemento In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To the List With a friendly wish for a Good New Year, and for the few who will understand it, I put on the Poets' Corner Michael Rothenberg's Concrete Sky: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=747 in my Italian translation: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=920 Best, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admirers. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:11:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Some Long Term Perspective In-Reply-To: <00b401c4ef42$2c9ec860$fa1486d4@o2p8f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there is a very good book called Surpassing Wonder I do not remember the author but he writes about the Talmud and the New Testament and his argument-whic his persuasive is that the origin of Christianity and Judaism is Second Temple Judahism which is focused on temple worship and the sacrifice of animals in the temple- this book is a great start to answer this yes the New Testament is a missionary document that was written to convert people and to depricate the existing Monotheism Judaism- just read the comments put in Jesus's mouth in the gospel of John All of Paul's letters while not anti semitic have anti semitic seeds. teh famous blood libel- "let his death be on us and our children" for example from the gospels is an example; Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Lawrence Upton > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 8:03 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Some Long Term Perspective > > > Hi > > -----Original Message----- > From: Haas Bianchi > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: 31 December 2004 12:57 > Subject: Some Long Term Perspective > > Can you say more about Judahism / Judaism? Or can you point me to a source > where I can read about it? I know I don't grasp what you are saying. Maybe > this is something I forgot? > > >The New Testament was written expressly as a retort and a > mission document > >to contrast Christianity from Judahism. The anti Jewish statements in the > >New Testament are expressly written for the purpose of showing that > >Christianity has surpassed Judahism. > > Do you infer that the NT was written for that purpose? > > These were not Anti Semitic statements > >in the sense we have today but they did plant the seeds for future Anti > >Semitism. > > I am trying to think of anything in the NT which could be the *seeds of > anti-semitism; but my memory of NT isnt that good. If you have any readily > to mind, could you say so I can understand? > > NB I am taking you literally on seeds. Of course I accept that things were > distorted - the crusades would be one example of that > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 12:51:29 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that Mark is saying that what is a joke to one person at one time is offensive to another person at another time (or of a different cultural or world view) - I have made stupid jokes and (or not stupid perhaps if one knows the kind of humour I was referring to - but out of context I suppose) and the response by people has been varied (my daughters don't let me off anything too much!! A man needs daughters!!) one has to be wary of what one says to whom - but a joke about the Scots is probably harmless on here as we all know it is not meant too literally - if people go on making Scottish jokes or Irish jokes I call a halt (I usually sense an antipathy) - and similarly I have seen jokes by and about Jews by Jews and on Jews and have found them funny but the humour wears thin the more it is used - a fellow I used to by beer books, oddments etc from on the street (where I had book stall/market) was from Bulgaria and he told me how terrible the Gypsies were and the "Tukkus" as he called them - they were all criminals he said - I didn't bother arguing as he was clearly totally convinced - I have met a lot of people like that - one person I was trying to sell a book to got into rave mode one the phone and according to him NZ was dangerously overloaded with Asians and people from the Middle East etc (this is common racial view here especially amongst working class people -although it is cross - class/religion and so on ) ..so Alison is right in her view that racism has continued to until today (it may have declined somewhat but it continues perhaps as strongly as in Dickens's time - but I don't think that Dickens portrayal of Fagan is bad - don't see anything wrong with it) - but we do need to be vigilant about racism: without becoming too PC or Po-faced - but racism is still a real danger - the Holocaust was so coldly deliberate that there is a tendency to focus on ant-Semitism but racism is always stupid, always ugly. And as to pogroms etc - in Britain one of the Kings (who went on campaigns slaughtering the Welsh etc(!)) ran out of money - supplied to a large extent by Jewish financiers (this by a British/Jewish historian) and then proceeded to put yellow stars on Jews in London and killed many, thousands I think - he carried out a kind of pogrom/repression eerily like that of Goebbels an Hitler's persecutions to come. But in literature is not Bloom as the central character in Ulysses(Odysseus) an example of positive view of Jewish? Joyce identified Odysseus/Bloom I believe - though I'm not as familiar with that book as I maybe should be ( I read it once but it is a book requires a lot of re-reads I think). Is this a positive view by Joyce and are there other or what examples of good or interesting view so people are there? I suppose eventually - in an ideal world people would be defined by their personalities and personal or individual attributes not any general class of attributes. Meantime we have a great number of different cultures/religions etc. I try to see each individual as he /she is right in front of me - like everyone of course I make erroneous and/or/ "vaguely true" generalisations and tongue slips - but person to person I try to deal with the individual herself or himself - whoever Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Croggon" To: Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > Mark: are you saying that anti-Semitism is essentially different from other > kinds of racism? > > The first European progroms, in I think 12thC France (?), were against both > Jews and lepers. Both were blamed for the Plague, and similar libels and > murderous actions were taken against both. The issue there was scapegoating > identifiably other communities. I'm not saying there are not distinctive > histories of bigotry, but all these social bigotries and exclusions > continuously seem to have similar attributes, up to the present day. > > Best > > A > > > Alison Croggon > > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au > Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 00:23:01 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "richard.tylr" > And as to pogroms etc - in Britain one of the Kings (who went on campaigns > slaughtering the Welsh etc(!)) ran out of money - supplied to a large extent > by Jewish financiers (this by a British/Jewish historian) and then proceeded > to put yellow stars on Jews in London and killed many, thousands I think - > he carried out a kind of pogrom/repression eerily like that of Goebbels an > Hitler's persecutions to come. There are still British Jews who won't set a foot in York. R. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 13:37:39 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes anti semitism is a part of a wider phenomena of racism in lterature and life and we havent got the depths of where it comes from - it comes ultimately from - fear I suppose - some Freudian complex or omething -someone has probably looked at (written about) it - and yes, we need to be aware and or research/discuss his phenomenom - but we all need to keep thinking about it - it may always be with us this fear or this paranoia - its part of a world wide phenomena and a part of what we are - we are all more or less "racist" or paranoid - whatever - hard to say exactly what I mean here. But whatever it is this racism - it is ugly - and we wont give in to it. Happy New Year ot Everyone. ( I said Happy New Year to my cat but it gave no comment -what is wrong with it?) Richard Taylor. BTW - I am sometimes confused with Richard Jeferries I think - but that's ok ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Croggon" To: Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 9:11 PM Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism > On 31/12/04 5:21 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > The blood libel isn't exclusively applied to Jews, just in an overwhelming > > majority of cases. What's your point? > > My point is that the patterns of bigotry against minority communities - > lepers, Roma, heretics - contain similar patterns. It seems to me that that > it might be more profitable to examine phenomena like anti-Semitism by > looking at in a larger context, rather than in isolation as as a bigotry > that only happens to Jews. It's very often said that the Blood Libel only > applies to Jews, and that's incorrect. It's not even an exclusively > Christian lie. That's why I asked whether you were saying anti-Semitism was > essentially different from other kinds of racism. > > > the muslims didn't start their scene til 5 centurie later, me seems? > > Thanks for the correction, Pierre. It's too hot here for my brain to work > properly. > > Happy New Year to you too > > A > > Alison Croggon > > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au > Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 00:39:54 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob wrote: >There are still British Jews who won't set a foot in York. R.< Yup, Rob, and I don't demur from how they feel about it - I used to like York, going round the walls, ogling at the Minster, having tea at Mrs Bridges, admiring Mallard at the Railway Museum, staying by the Rowntrees factory with the smell of chocolate wafting on the air, UNTIL I found out about that fact you allude to, of which I was ignorant, I can't go to the place anymore, I hadn't thought about this for a while but you've reminded me that I really have a block on that and why. All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hamilton" To: Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 12:23 AM Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens From: "richard.tylr" > And as to pogroms etc - in Britain one of the Kings (who went on campaigns > slaughtering the Welsh etc(!)) ran out of money - supplied to a large extent > by Jewish financiers (this by a British/Jewish historian) and then proceeded > to put yellow stars on Jews in London and killed many, thousands I think - > he carried out a kind of pogrom/repression eerily like that of Goebbels an > Hitler's persecutions to come. There are still British Jews who won't set a foot in York. R. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 20:15:34 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: cheers for another excuse to be happy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LeChaim & Slainte Mhath Cabs & Condoms Happy New Year ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 20:44:38 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Happy New Year Everyone! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- and to all a good night. Best Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com kojapress.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:34:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: cheers for another excuse to be happy Comments: To: ophiuchus@AOL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Slainte libhse go leir -- go mbeimid uilig beo an am seo aris. Mairead >>> ophiuchus@AOL.COM 12/31/04 8:15 PM >>> LeChaim & Slainte Mhath Cabs & Condoms Happy New Year ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:59:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Happy new Year! Comments: To: Tony Bowen , Kimberly Bowen , Ginger Stopa , samuel davis , Pete Freiermuth , Donna Fruehauf , Rob & Judy Shapiro , Vince DeCarlo , Kevin Okeefe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-41D612067D3B=======" --=======AVGMAIL-41D612067D3B======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Have a great New Year everybody-------Nothing but the BEST. Something to think on. "Of course the people don't want war. After all it's the leaders of the = country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to = drag the people along, weather it is a democracy, a fascist = dictartorship, parliment, or communism. Voice or no voice the people can = always be brought to the bidding of the leadership class. All you have = to do is provoke an attack or fake one,denounce pacifists as = unpatriotic, and pretend there is a lurking attacker around every = corner." =20 Hermann Goring at = the Nuremberg trails I bet George and his cronies have committed this quote to memory! --=======AVGMAIL-41D612067D3B======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/04 --=======AVGMAIL-41D612067D3B=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 03:07:37 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "david.bircumshaw" dave: > >There are still British Jews who won't set a foot in York. > > R.< > > > Yup, Rob, and I don't demur from how they feel about it - ... > I hadn't thought > about this for a while but you've reminded me that I really have a block on that and why. It may have happened as long ago as 1190, but the Jews, like the Scots and the Irish, have long memories. There are still McDonalds who won't sit beside a Campbell on a bus. I'm not sure whether this is admirable or appalling or simply baffling, but like Birmingham, Glasgow (as she exists today) is a relatively new town, so there are fewer horrors to remember. (Unless you're a McGregor, that is -- "Three of them found under the same roof, and they must be hangit." I think that law may still be on the statute-books. Does it count that the McGregors were a sept of the clan Campbell, and "Campbell" {as in Robin Roy McGregor Campbell, a.k.a. Rob Roy McGregor} was a passing name?) Robin ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 04:09:04 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, Rob, long memories do count. I'm not sure whether I have one or not, I certainly don't have a clan kind of thing, but all true Brummies like me recall the fact that Prince Rupert's cavalry slaughtered the Parliamentarian Brummies in the Battle of Camp Hill. for instance. I'd observe though that the kind of particularism you and I joke about must be immensely puzzling to some of our US friends, the international middle class, which includes a lot of so-called writers, are blithely unaware of this stuff, as they don't see it, in between airport departure lounges, you know as echt Glasgie as I know as echt Brum the other side of things, my little vixen pulls my leg about my accent as she's from Nottingham but I get let off the hook as my grandparents came from Eastwood (yeah, DHL territory) I know you don't do English variations whereas I have a slight sense of Scots differennces, but, to be specific, just as you have a phobia about things Edinburgh the one and only prejudice I have is against people from Wolverhampton. It is a shared feeling: Brummies can't stand Wulfronians and vice-versa. I don't have a problem with Yammers, (that's people from the Black Country in Between Brum and Wolves), I certainly am ok with the surviving rustics in Warwicks ( after all, altho' raised in Brum I was born in the county, so I'm technically a yokel myself) and can even tolerate the Chizzits of Leicester that I live among these days but I can't stay in the same room with a anyone from Wolverhampton ( I've tried) Hope our dear Yankees aren't too puzzled by this, I like them a lot. All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hamilton" To: Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 3:07 AM Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens From: "david.bircumshaw" dave: > >There are still British Jews who won't set a foot in York. > > R.< > > > Yup, Rob, and I don't demur from how they feel about it - ... > I hadn't thought > about this for a while but you've reminded me that I really have a block on that and why. It may have happened as long ago as 1190, but the Jews, like the Scots and the Irish, have long memories. There are still McDonalds who won't sit beside a Campbell on a bus. I'm not sure whether this is admirable or appalling or simply baffling, but like Birmingham, Glasgow (as she exists today) is a relatively new town, so there are fewer horrors to remember. (Unless you're a McGregor, that is -- "Three of them found under the same roof, and they must be hangit." I think that law may still be on the statute-books. Does it count that the McGregors were a sept of the clan Campbell, and "Campbell" {as in Robin Roy McGregor Campbell, a.k.a. Rob Roy McGregor} was a passing name?) Robin