========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 05:25:27 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dave: > Prince Rupert's cavalry slaughtered the Parliamentarian Brummies in the Battle of Camp Hill. I'd forgotten about that -- the only parallel I can think of is David Kirkwood getting his head split open by a member of the Glasgow polis in the twenties. And that's not in the same league. Admittedly. >I know you don't do English variations whereas I have a slight sense of Scots differennces, Well, I'm OK with English variants in AS and even (more so) Langland/Chaucer/the Gawain Poet, but after that, it all sounds to me a mush of anything-south-of-Carlisle. {even illiterate Brummies like you} > but, to be > specific, just as you have a phobia about things Edinburgh I *don't* have a phobia about Edinburgh -- it's simply a +fact+ that Edinburgh folks (especially the ones from Morningside) are animals who eat their living young. ... well, I might make an exception for Ian Rankin -- and obviously Robert Garrioch -- but other than THAT!!!! Robin > Hope our dear Yankees aren't too puzzled by this, I like them a lot. Pity the poor dead (as Simonides was it said) Anacreon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 00:30:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: PennSound Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound now open for close listening Happy New Year! Charles Bernstein & Al Filreis January 1, 2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 05:57:15 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "david.bircumshaw" > Hope our dear Yankees aren't too puzzled by this, I like them a lot. AND (cap badge) "The english poisoned John McLean." {A Situationist withdraws ...} Guy Debord (And please don't ask me whether or not I *really* committed suicide -- I thought the one place I could escape from The Ghost Of Guy Debord would be in a Leicestershire detox clinic, but I should have been so lucky. :-( But hwat! happened? Jim-the-Self-Mutilator quoted paragraph after 'patagraph of _The Society of the Spectacle_ at me ... Danny la Roue ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 15:25:48 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: A Rough Year MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 2004 is now gone. Let's hope for a better 2005. Here's to everyone for a Happy New Year! Jesse Glass ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 01:34:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: immense fragility w/worlds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed immense fragility w/worlds inconceivable complexities that this comes across / do you think this survives / one day catastrophe / disappearance-text / my lovers i rely on you / my darling protocols / my thin worm slips in you / one day all of this collapses / no message / annihilation to the limit / infrastructure and subtexts tend to divide / they're the first things that fail / the rest follows / after the sur- face looks normal / as if nothing happened / just within or beneath there are things that would astonish / but communication is cut off / as if this is your mind / my darlings / my lovely protocols / not a moment to lose _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 01:35:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Flooding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The Flooding Flooding, everything out of control. Nunberg's patient got sick while there's been a hurricane, flooding in the building, flooding with a huge quantity of useless posts, or organs, flooding me with names; still, you control my body and it's the result of space flooding me, space everywhere, even in the confines of storms of light glinting from years ago, star-swarms flooding the sky abject, always melting, flooding one with iridescent lightness, the flux symbolic, not the development of simulacra, but the flooding of the regions of the world. Beyond memory is the disgust of the everyday, _flattened real_ flooding your panties, liquid running through the theater, anonymous members, but the _rain of number,_ statistics for its own sake, cancers flooding the body in part or in full, tumors attacking me. Masturbation makes the time fly, flooding the lower accesses - flooding in distant wavelets, solitons, turbulent steady-states, flooding the world with my murmuring. Defuge/flooding, cyberspace falters and topples in the sand/granularity of organs, flooding me with names; still, you control my body and it's turned the matrix of the Net. Thinking is thinning, word-flooding, programming, flooding out across the semantic plateaus of participants' time as well, timeless and flooding, and confusing to God. She said " _floating/drowning_ Jennifer, or a _swimming/cresting,_ or a _flooding/ suck sexthing is acid hole flooding impossibility where suck /sexthing is layers which extend above and below code." The text itself is flooding, dissolutions of beings, flooding me, I swallow all living and non-living, back and back, flooding the world. The world is all that is contradicted by the presence of language flooding our world; in fact, missives, missions, missionaries - unceasing flooding of lapped shores other people jammed into open connections. So think through the backdropping, flooding, of communication and you say, "& soon those memories flooding, that inert event, that signature, flooding lands with waters and delights. In this fair world, less than that hard sounds, flooding of pulse and body memories - connection is rough - packets suddenly flooding through, then apparently dead. Energy flooding establishes channels. The world is alan-swallowing, surrounded by red-brown floodings, clots, membraned flooding of words by names..." Liquid air, radio in the pulsing air, flooding our bodies, her voice flooding-room light, softenings considering the next smearing of your thinking skin. First flooding, my holding is absorbed in my flood flooding, my offer-proffer to you, my split doll beneath your binding, my split doll and flood-flooding wiped flooding, through the river more and more and communalities flooding these very words i write, you read. Feel these from pure drive of the text, the flooding of hurtling, and emissions and spews, flows, the flooding of clutter and part-objects - the damp, flooding of the names, things soaking, specters streamed, brilliant iridescent wings. Wet-world the first flooding the first runtime beetles - antenna - just "in case" - flooding of the names, liquid or their burst eyes flooding us with marrow for thought. Let me tell you that radiation flooding; consider this, the benefits for all of us - the end of this secret. Not even valleys flooding or great storms would make you flooding and fire. Pairs of breeding falcons might make it. Seagulls come flooding of clutter and a-historicity of the gathering of accumulations, flooding momentarily within them - stuttering within and stuttering, "flooding momentarily within them - stuttering within and stuttering." I'm afraid of flooding; we've been hit before, spewed and flooding from the temporary articulation of emission, as the tain of the mirror, fiber optics, neural-electronic flooding with teraterabyte messagings flooding up. Imagine these streams flooding America, online or offline, body's liquidity, flooding or dissolution in the stream of the body's liquidity, flooding or dissolution in the stream of up. Imagine these streams flooding America, online or offline, the emotional flooding at the gates flooding rivers and millions killed. You are living in the bad areas of the world and flooding of rivers have stories over your century. A world's end flooding millions and volcanos. Killed. Volcanos. Rivers flooding millions. Rivers want; your songs are stupid songs - flooding rivers and millions killed. MUD. a flood nothing red really on on flooding and blood, smeared with its flooding from oozed afraid whirlpool. Does not the night beneath the flooding or flood of food, the flooding none, the symbols of the north, loop chunnel and dangers of flooding. If flash flooding is observed act quickly. Move that emotional flooding at the gates. There's been a hurricane, flooding emissions and spews, flows, the flooding of clutter and part-objects emissions and spews, flows, the flooding of clutter and part-objects - emissions and spews, flows, the flooding of clutter and part-objects - emissions and spews, flows, the flooding of clutter and part-objects - emissions and spews, flows, the flooding of clutter and part-objects - and organs, flooding me with names; still, you control my body and it's all I reach for in the morning . A lid appears in the sky, heavy with viscous fluid, coating, flooding the names, soaking of things! My holding is absorbed in my flood flooding, my offer-proffer to you, my split doll beneath your binding, my split doll and flood-flooding. Wiped, flooding, do you mean to me? - And through the river more and more and the matrix of the net. Thinking is thinning, flooding of words. _ __ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 23:29:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Federal prisons increase restrictions on American Indian spirituality MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/36395.php Federal prisons increase restrictions on American Indian spirituality by Indian Country Today Ceremonies for incarcerated American Indian inmates are facing new restrictions in state and federal prisons, where most inmates are already forced to hold sweats in dilapidated lodges, build fires of scrap lumber and burn commercially-processed sage. Federal prisons increase restrictions Posted: December 31, 2004 by: Brenda Norrell / Indian Country Today WINDOW ROCK, Ariz. - Ceremonies for incarcerated American Indian inmates are facing new restrictions in state and federal prisons, where most inmates are already forced to hold sweats in dilapidated lodges, build fires of scrap lumber and burn commercially-processed sage. ''The indifference towards our Native men, women and juveniles who are incarcerated must stop and an effort must be made to provide outreach support because they are coming home someday. Our people are not expendable,'' said Lenny Foster, Navajo spiritual advisor to Indian inmates for 24 years. ''The trend within the past several years throughout the United States prison system has been to restrict the traditional spiritual practices of the Native prisoners.'' Foster, program supervisor and spiritual advisor with the Corrections Project of the Navajo Nation Department of Behavioral Health Services, provides spiritual counseling and advocacy for 2,000 Navajo and other American Indian inmates in 96 state and federal penitentiaries. Nationwide, the current trend of prison officials is to limit the amount of time Indian prisoners can participate in sweat lodge ceremonies, pipe ceremonies, talking circles, spiritual gatherings and drum practice. By reducing the time for ceremonies, prison officials are limiting the rehabilitative effects for inmates. ''At one time these practices were allowed six to eight hours on a given day, usually a weekend, where the Native population could fully participate without any interference, harassment or indifference,'' Foster said. ''To rush through a ceremony does not allow full expression or participation because these ceremonies are very sacred.'' The Leonard Peltier Defense Committee said the warden at Leavenworth Penitentiary, where Peltier is incarcerated, imposed new restrictions on the religious ceremonies of American Indian prisoners. Until recently, Peltier and other prisoners were permitted eight hours per week for the Inipi (sweat ceremony). The warden has now reduced the time to four hours per week. ''This infringement is both illegal and unconstitutional,'' said the Defense Committee. Although the prison claims the wood supply for ceremonies is depleted and needs to be rationed, supporters said the wood provided is scrap wood, regardless of supply. Foster said he would contact the head chaplain for approval to deliver firewood and lava rocks from the Navajo Nation for the sweat lodge at USP-Leavenworth after the holidays. Meanwhile, the Defense Committee urged advocates to call and write Warden E.J. Gallegos. At the prison complex in Florence, located between Phoenix and Tucson, Indian inmates struggle to hold sweat lodge ceremonies. ''The wood that was brought was from wooden pallets, or from stinky trees cut down in the yard; they weren't like mesquite, they would give you a headache,'' one Indian inmate incarcerated in the Arizona state prison at Florence told Indian Country Today. ''The sage was processed and had to be bought at the prison store. It didn't even smell like sage. The sweat lodge was so old, it was covered with an old army tarp and we had to dig the sweat lodge deeper so people could get in there. ''That's all we had; we had to make our drum out of a tin can. ''I went, but I didn't get anything out of it.'' When the ceremonies are held in the traditional and sacred way, however, Indian inmates receive beneficial rehabilitation, Foster said. ''All of these traditional practices and beliefs are very important for the rehabilitation of the Native prisoner, or else the incarceration becomes nothing more than warehousing.'' When American Indian inmates are merely warehoused, Foster said no change results in the prisoners' behavior and lifestyle. There is no increase of respect or true restoration to sobriety. Rehabilitation is vital because Natives return home to their community and family and should not be a burden or problem. Prison systems need new regulations to allow Indian inmates to exercise their fundamental freedom of religious rights protected by law. Prisoners need the purity of sacred items, adequate time for prayers and authentic medicine men to conduct ceremonies, advocates say. ''It places a burden on the Native prisoner to obtain his own firewood, lava rocks, sage, cedar, tobacco and other sacred items,'' Foster said. ''The Chaplain's religious services provide Bibles, rosary and chapel for Christian inmates, and Islamic and Jewish inmates have their support from their respective outside community.'' However, Indian nations have an obligation to assist their incarcerated tribal members with sacred items that are necessary for the sweat lodge ceremonies and pipe ceremonies. Sometimes, Indian nations do not respond and neither do the family and friends of inmates. ''It has become vital and essential to have American Indian spiritual leaders and medicine persons visit the prisons and provide the necessary instructions and conduct and facilitate the ceremonies, circles and gatherings,'' Foster said. ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 23:38:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: WARS FOR THE WHITE NATION MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/36404.php WARS FOR THE WHITE NATION Some thinkers believe that Americans were perhaps too stupid to see past the Administration's smokescreen for the War on Iraq. I am not so convinced. I think many people simply didn't care. Where, as here, the 'enemy' were nonwhite Arabs, and mostly, folks of an alien faith, it was easy to project them as fair game -- even if Iraq actually hadn't a thing to do with 9/11. WARS FOR THE WHITE NATION ============================ [Col. Writ. 11/28/04) Copyright 2004 Mumia Abu-Jamal We Americans claim to be a peace-loving people. We hate bloodshed; we are opposed to violence. Yet we go into spasms of joy over the possibility of projecting dynamite bombs from flying machines upon helpless citizens ... Yet our hearts swell with pride at the thought that America is becoming the most powerful nation on earth, and that it will eventually plant her iron foot on the necks of all other nations. -- Emma Goldman, Radical Emigrant & Activist "Patriotism: A Menace to Liberty" (1908) (Fr. Howard Zinn & Anthony Arnove, *Voices of a People's History of the United States* (N.Y.: Seven Stories Press, 2004), p. 271] In light of the recent election, these coming four years promise to be ones of continuing war. Nor will it end, no matter who is elected in 2008. That's because the major allegedly opposition party, given its deep corporate funding, will not dare to truly oppose the Administration. They fear being targeted as 'unpatriotic,' or, even worse, 'soft on terrorism.' That's because, they know, at some level, that millions of Americans rally to the martial strains of war. Even a 'bad war.' Even one based upon false pretenses. Even one based upon that most ulterior of motives -- greed. Some thinkers believe that Americans were perhaps too stupid to see past the Administration's smokescreen for the War on Iraq. I am not so convinced. I think many people simply didn't care. Where, as here, the 'enemy' were nonwhite Arabs, and mostly, folks of an alien faith, it was easy to project them as fair game -- even if Iraq actually hadn't a thing to do with 9/11. There's simply something about the allure of war, that writer and social critic, Randolph Bourne, put quite nicely, in his 1918 essay, "The State": War is the health of the State. It automatically sets in motion throughout society those irresistible forces for uniformity, for passionate cooperation with the Government in coercing into obedience the minority groups and individuals which lack the larger herd sense. The machinery of government sets and enforces the drastic penalties; the minorities are either intimidated into silence, or brought slowly around by a subtle process of persuasion which may seem really to be converting them. [From Zinn & Arnove, *Voices of a People's History ...*, p. 299.] War, Bourne explains, creates such wrenching social divisions, that fellow citizens often turn on fellow citizens, with one side, usually the pro-war side, demeaning the other, antiwar side, as traitors to the nation -- as if the nation is the political leadership! While Bourne was describing the events around World War I, his insights reflect our present, under the power of this "wartime... uniformity of feeling" [p. 299]. Bourne tells us: Not for any religious impulse could the American nation have been expected to show such devotion en masse, such sacrifice and labor. Certainly not for any secular good, such as universal education or the subjugation of nature, would it have poured forth its treasure and its life, or would it have permitted such stern coercive measures to be taken against it, such as conscripting its money and its men. But for the sake of a war of offensive self-defense, undertaken to support a difficult cause to the slogan of "democracy," it would reach the highest level ever known of collective effort .... [p. 300]. We are conditioned to, for the most part, quietly accept it; to not rock the boat; to go with the flow. Yet it's also true that Americans, by their millions, all across the country, came out to oppose the war -- before a shot was fired! Perhaps it reflects a deep-seated distrust of political promises and claims to justify wars. Certainly, American presidents throughout the 20th century, have given people enough reason to be skeptical. Perhaps they came from families where men returned, in shattered bodies, or fractured minds, from glorious wars past. Perhaps people simply knew that *this* war had nothing to do with *that* war. It is a good start, and would've been far better if people really continued to protest, in great numbers, throughout the election year. But, of course, this didn't happen. But people learn, especially if the lesson is a painful one. Perhaps, in the future, they will not stop, until they force the politicians to hear them. Copyright 2004 Mumia Abu-Jamal [Check out Mumia's latest: *WE WANT FREEDOM: A Life in the Black Panther Party*, from South End Press (http://www.southendpress.org); Ph. #1-800-533-8478.] =============================== "When a cause comes along and you know in your bones that it is just, yet refuse to defend it--at that moment you begin to die. And I have never seen so many corpses walking around talking about justice." - Mumia Abu-Jamal MUMIA'S COLUMNS NEED TO BE PUBLISHED AS BROADLY AS POSSIBLE TO INSPIRE PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT AND HELP CALL ATTENTION TO HIS CASE. The campaign to kill Mumia is in full swing and we need you to **please** contact as many publications and information outlets as you possibly can to run Mumia's commentaries (on-line and **especially off-line**)!! The only requirements are that you run them *unedited*, with every word including copyright information intact, and send a copy of the publication to Mumia and/or ICFFMAJ. THANK YOU!!! Keep updated by reading ACTION ALERTS!! at http://www.mumia.org and its links. ======================================== To download Mp3's of Mumia's commentaries visit http://www.prisonradio.org or http://www.fsrn.org ==============================================> The Power of Truth is Final -- Free Mumia! PLEASE CONTACT: International Concerned Family & Friends of MAJ P.O. Box 19709 Philadelphia, PA 19143 Phone - 215-476-8812/ Fax - 215-476-6180 E-mail - icffmaj@aol.com AND OFFER YOUR SERVICES! Send our brotha some LOVE and LIGHT at: Mumia Abu-Jamal AM 8335 SCI-Greene 175 Progress Drive Waynesburg, PA 15370 WE WHO BELIEVE IN FREEDOM CAN *NOT* REST!! Submitted by: Sis. Marpessa http://www.prisonradio.org ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 03:02:57 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the new the old the the.... 3:00.......the drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 03:34:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: anti- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit did you mean pro-winning ?? yes fat jack turned a bit the other way the cheek of the man ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 08:28:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" first time i've seen this bumper sticker: I LOVE MY COUNTRY BUT I THINK WE SHOULD START SEEING OTHER PEOPLE. happy new year. At 10:12 AM -0800 12/31/04, Stephen Vincent wrote: >Alison: On a related note to that sickening article/book review on the right >to intern the Japanese, if I have not mentioned this before, the majority of >Japanese interned from California, ironically enough, were the Hiroshima >prefecture. UC Berkeley Physics Department, simultaneous with the internment >of local Japanese, was developing the nuclear research for the atom bomb >that would be dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. > >Now were neighbors, lets be friends. > >People on the moon must think we are an interesting people! > >Maybe this - Earth - is also Hell. Sing hard. > >& Happy New Year all - it's obviously going to take some work! > >Stephen V > > >> On 31/12/04 7:11 PM, "Alison Croggon" wrote: >> >>> It seems to me that that >>> it might be more profitable to examine phenomena like anti-Semitism by >>> looking at in a larger context, rather than in isolation as as a bigotry >>> that only happens to Jews. >> >> Damn. Let down by my syntax yet again. Of course anti-Semitism is about >> Jew Hatred, as Richard (?) succintly put it. But anti-Semitism is one >> manifestation of larger social pathologies, which have identifiable >> similarities. >> >> Anyway, a connected if sideways thing - I read this today and it made me >> feel ill. >> >> Best >> >> A >> >> Posted on Thu, Dec. 30, 2004 >> >> >> Why the Japanese internment still matters >> >> By Daniel Pipes >> >> Middle East Forum >> >> >> For years, it has been my position that the threat of radical Islam implies >> an imperative to focus security measures on Muslims. If searching for >> rapists, one looks only at the male population. Similarly, if searching for >> Islamists (adherents of radical Islam), one looks at the Muslim population. >> >> And so, I was encouraged by a just-released Cornell University opinion >> survey that finds nearly half the U.S. population agreeing with this >> proposition. >> >> Specifically, 44 percent of Americans believe that government authorities >> should direct special attention toward Muslims living in the United States, >> either by registering their whereabouts, profiling them, monitoring their >> mosques or infiltrating their organizations. >> >> That's the good news; the bad news is the near-universal disapproval of this >> realism. Leftist and Islamist organizations have so successfully influenced > > public opinion that polite society shies away from endorsing a focus on > > Muslims. > > > > In the United States, this intimidation results in large part from a > > revisionist interpretation of the evacuation, relocation and internment of >> ethnic Japanese during World War II. >> >> Denying that the treatment of ethnic Japanese resulted from legitimate >> national security concerns, this lobby has established that it resulted >> solely from a combination of "wartime hysteria" and "racial prejudice." >> >> As radical groups like the American Civil Liberties Union wield this >> interpretation, in the words of columnist Michelle Malkin, "like a bludgeon >> over the War on Terror debate," they pre-empt efforts to build an effective >> defense against today's Islamist enemy. >> >> The intrepid Malkin, a specialist on immigration, has re-opened the >> internment file. >> >> Her recently published book, bearing the provocative title In Defense of >> Internment: The Case for Racial Profiling in World War II and the War on >> Terror (Regnery), starts with the unarguable premise that in time of war, >> "the survival of the nation comes first." From there, she draws the >> corollary that "Civil liberties are not sacrosanct." >> >> She then reviews the historical record of the early 1940s and finds that: >> >> * Within hours of the attacks on Pearl Harbor, two U.S. citizens of >> Japanese ancestry, with no history of anti-Americanism, shockingly >> collaborated with a Japanese soldier against their fellow Hawaiians. > > >> * The Japanese government had established "an extensive espionage network >> within the United States" believed to include hundreds of agents. >> >> * In contrast to loose talk about "American concentration camps," the >> relocation camps for Japanese were "Spartan facilities that were for the >> most part administered humanely." As proof, she notes that more than 200 >> individuals voluntarily chose to move into the camps. >> >> * The relocation process itself won praise from Carey McWilliams, a >> contemporary leftist critic (and future editor of The Nation ), for taking >> place "without a hitch." >> >> * A federal panel that reviewed these issues in 1981-83, the Commission on >> Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians, was, Malkin explains, >> "Stacked with left-leaning lawyers, politicians, and civil rights activists >> -- but not a single military officer or intelligence expert." >> >> * The apology for internment by Ronald Reagan in 1988, plus the nearly >> $1.65 billion in reparations paid to former internees, was premised on >> faulty scholarship. In particular, it largely ignored the top-secret >> decoding of Japanese diplomatic traffic, codenamed the MAGIC messages, which >> revealed Tokyo's plans to exploit Japanese-Americans. >> >> Malkin has done the singular service of breaking the academic single-note >> scholarship on a critical subject, cutting through a shabby, stultifying >> consensus to reveal how, "given what was known and not known at the time," >> FDR and his staff did the right thing. >> >> She correctly concludes that, especially in time of war, governments should >> take into account nationality, ethnicity, and religious affiliation in their >> homeland security policies and engage in what she calls "threat profiling." >> >> These steps may entail bothersome or offensive measures but, she argues, >> they are preferable to "being incinerated at your office desk by a flaming >> hijacked plane." >> Daniel Pipes is director of the Middle East Forum. www.DanielPipes.org >> >> >> >> >> Alison Croggon >> >> Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com >> Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au >> Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 15:42:55 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Your question to Mark about anti-Semitism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Maria Damon" > first time i've seen this bumper sticker: > I LOVE MY COUNTRY BUT I THINK WE SHOULD START SEEING OTHER PEOPLE. > happy new year. For some reason, this reminds me of a rather sad slogan kicking around the UK in the sixties. Join the army. Meet interesting people. Kill them. Robin ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 14:02:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: PENNsound at Penn - now open! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PENNsound http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound now open for close listening Happy New Year! Charles Bernstein & Al Filreis January 1, 2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 15:05:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Happy 2005 You All Comments: cc: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK In-Reply-To: <006d01c4efe9$54dd6370$afaa3852@yourpk9x5fuc06> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a nappy ewe's ear to ya'll pierre p.s. note new zip code in snailmail address below: ================================================= "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 00:36:28 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Walker Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although I'm not sure whether the Shylock speech alludes to the 'baser human attributes' I do agree with you that WS and his audience would not have known much about Jews, however, one does have to add a proviso that London, unlike the rest of England, had long been host to immigrant communities What about the Lopez case? Roderigo Lopez had been Elizabeth I's physician. In the early 1590s he was charged with attempting to poison her a few years before. So the idea of a *Jew* on trial was very much in the air. As to moneylending, the Venice setting was scarcely local colour. Venice was as replete witb Jewish lenders (in conflict with non Jewish *monti di pieta* )as it was with merchants. Indeed the term 'ghetto' (< Venetian dialect for foundry) comes from the confining of Venice's 'Jews' (the definition varied) to the Corte de Case in 1516. CW ____________________________________________ When I came home I expected a surprise and there was no surprise for me, so, of course, I was surprised. (Wittgenstein) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 14:41:23 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw that on a BBC programme by a British historian - my friend has his book - which was many episodes and very good - but to be fair or unfair there were fewer instances of that sort of thing in England I think (my history isn't good so I stand to be corrected there) than say Russia and also it was the actions of a one King who ran out of money - an act which wasn't necessarily supported by the British people or done by other Kings - I think people pick up all sorts of prejudices - I that know as a boy we would see movies - in those movies in the 50s the American cavalry were always cheered when they came (at the last minute -" da dah da dah!!") to rescue the settlers besieged by the Indians and then in war movies the Germans were ALWAYs bad - very little about the Holocaust - we loved war movies ( a child doesn't feel the pain of war - its all just "bang bang , you're dead!" and "To Hell and Back and The Battle of the River Plate and then in Korea the US pilots would always get the evil Chinese/Koreans or whoever they were in their MIGS (never a match for the US planes) to us they (the Korean pilots) were strange and sinister looking people with slant eyes who never smiled and so on - now that was the kind of accumulated affect of war movies and also the National Geographic that my father got always showed the US as a marvellous place - which in many ways it - corn every where - huge bridges and so on - the English were always the goodies and the tommies were cheerful - some of this was true ( a little) (Vonnegut satirises the cheerful English in Slaughter House 5) - and indeed my English grandmother and my mother and even my grandfather from England were very good and gentle people - but as a boy I was told that the Germans killed people but the English were kind. Now some of that was true! The Goon Show of course poked fun a lot of the idiocy of war and so on.. Later we learnt about the Holocaust and read The Diary of Anne Frank (and read the Merchant of Venice) - but those early years burn ideas (right or wrong) into one's mind/psyche and also I recall that women were never in my mind of significance - women were decorative and didn't do heroic things like men - they didn't go to war or have adventures (like Biggles) or invent things - of course that was a child's/pre adolescent's view and that prejudice in some ways is "embedded" as they say nowadays -- of course now I know for example the stories of the many women pilots at that time and read recently a book about Madame Curie - but films and so on - we didn't have TV - mostly reinforced that the British and Americans - who were Britains with an accent but also still good guys - were superior and that Arabs and blacks were - while they had good old ways were incompetent and backward - that was the effect on my mind. That is in the early years - now that meant that people generally (because of the accumulated effect of the 50s "propaganda" (which modified as time went by and became more sophisticated) - thought of people in the other worlds or who were "over there" who were black or had robes on or covered there faces - were more or less inferior (thus it's easy to bomb places like Iraq and wipe out 20,000 people - those people are backward and they are "bad" - of course as I started reading more and films changed in the 70s I gradually became more enlightened but those old feelings / ideas stay -one film that kind of counteracted that was Lawrence of Arabia but I think most things I read or saw in regard to Jews were positive - Israel was being promoted as a heroic and pioneering place (it became useful to the US and British Imperialists ands Egypt etc had been useful and Saudi Arabia now is) - I remember reading a book by Leon Uris - but as teenager I began questioning these things (the Israelis we now know committed some terrible crimes of their own against the Palestinians)...as I had no religion and so on it was easier but those initial images ideas stay in my mind to haunt me - or they a part of what I am: that's why it is easy now for the US to generate fear and hatred of Arabs etc (Moslems - whatever - more so than hatred of Jews) Moslems have replaced Jews or Communists as the Pariahs - its the accumulated effect of propaganda over many years via movies and TV etc The American Imperialists are a little more sophisticated in their attempts to exterminate Arabs than the Nazis but by and large the aims of the US Military - Industrial plexus is control or destruction of those peoples, and control of oil reserves, the drug trade and so on: if protests are made about Abu Grahib etc they know nothing much will be done about anything - the killing goes on. The only people who are doing anything in any significant way are the freedom fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan and etc. Hatred of Moslems and Arabs is a far more powerful prejudice nowadays than anti-Semitism and much more useful to the aggressor nations Britain and the US etc Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "david.bircumshaw" To: Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 1:39 PM Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > Rob wrote: > > >There are still British Jews who won't set a foot in York. > > R.< > > > Yup, Rob, and I don't demur from how they feel about it - I used to like York, going round the walls, ogling at the Minster, having > tea at Mrs Bridges, admiring Mallard at the Railway Museum, staying by the Rowntrees factory with the smell of chocolate wafting on > the air, UNTIL I found out about that fact you allude to, of which I was ignorant, I can't go to the place anymore, I hadn't thought > about this for a while but you've reminded me that I really have a block on that and why. > > > All the Best > > > Dave > > > > David Bircumshaw > > Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet > & Painting Without Numbers > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Hamilton" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 12:23 AM > Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens > > > From: "richard.tylr" > > > And as to pogroms etc - in Britain one of the Kings (who went on campaigns > > slaughtering the Welsh etc(!)) ran out of money - supplied to a large > extent > > by Jewish financiers (this by a British/Jewish historian) and then > proceeded > > to put yellow stars on Jews in London and killed many, thousands I think - > > he carried out a kind of pogrom/repression eerily like that of Goebbels an > > Hitler's persecutions to come. > > There are still British Jews who won't set a foot in York. > > R. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 21:47:32 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: anti-semitism in Dickens In-Reply-To: <001801c4f06c$2b545da0$382756d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Taylor wrote: >>Hatred of Moslems and Arabs is a far more powerful prejudice nowadays than anti-Semitism and much more useful to the aggressor nations Britain and the US etc<< It is a dangerous thing to rank forms of prejudice, which is not the same thing as ranking how different groups are treated at any particular moment in history and clearly Arabs and Muslims are getting more of a raw deal now in at least some parts of the world than are Jews. Still, it is important to resist the temptation to hierarchize hatreds; it only leads to divisiveness and helps the divide and conquer strategy that those with an interest in the status quo deploy over and over again, and at just about any stage of history, so effectively. Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 21:54:39 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: the toledo hip hop project: Akil,S,Slayer,Politikal, Jamela MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >>INFO: the toledo hip hop project: Akil,S,Slayer,Politikal,Jamela ================================ We are organizing the hip hop community in Toledo to become the griots of our struggle here. This is one of our first efforts - combining information technology, social justice and the Black struggle. We are early in the game and not everyone is down with study, but we meet once a week and progress is being made. Download: THP: Akil,S,Slayer,Politikal,Jamela http://www.toledohiphop.org/promo/tracks/It's_Hard.mp3 ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 04:32:19 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit blank screen blank mind #:00........... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 10:53:59 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: SlamStorySwap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DalaChinsky, Please send update on 1/1/05 annual-newyear-bowery-poetryproject-marathon when you have some time to spare. What piece(s) did you read? i mean wining as in with dining without the whining and not like winning that's somewhat like sinning and also great MAlo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 12:14:25 -0500 Reply-To: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Flash Polaroids on turbulence.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New on turbulence.org Flash Polaroids "I don't care what William Blake says, these are fun!" -- Harold Bloom The Flash Polaroids occupy a middle ground between an experimental film/vid= eo aesthetic - particularly the works that use the single frame as the unit= of composition - and interactive installation video works. The earlier "St= udies" involve loops of digital photographs taken in "burst mode" - in quic= k succession - and were partly inspired by David Crawford's Stop Motion Stu= dies. The "Portraits" involve several views of the same subject in juxtapos= ition, and could be compared to a Warholian take on the portrait - a moving= image that essentially sits still, or a still image that moves only slight= ly over time. The "Micro-narratives" introduce "stories" to the Flash Polar= oids, especially "Guy Cat Pan," which, like a metaphysical painting of De C= hirico's, gets its charge by placing disparate, enigmatic objects on the sa= me stage. The "Interactive" set pushes outward toward the user, and demonst= rate what could be done with this simple use of Flash and digital photograp= hs as projections in an installation setting.=20 About the artist Known primarily as a poet, Brian Kim Stefans has been producing work for th= e web since 1998. His most well-known work is The Dreamlife of Letters, a 1= 4-minute Flash poem that can be found, along with other works, at arras.net= in the "web poetry" section. Other web projects include the anti-war blog = Circulars, and the series of New York Times detournements called "The Vanei= gem Series," which incurred a cease-and-desist letter from the Times. He ed= its the series of Slash Ubu e-books that are found at www.ubu.com/ubu, and = has published several books of poetry (Free Space Comix, Gulf, Angry Pengui= ns) and one of experimental criticism, Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetic= s. He is working on a new series of 32 short pieces of digital poetry calle= d "A Book Of Poems," due in Spring 2005. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 13:04:02 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: perpetual text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't find the specific post, but somebody recently suggested that the in ternet (blogs, homepages, websites, e-publishing, etc.) vs. traditional publication offers writers opportunity to continuously revise & improve their works. Of course this opens the old argument between spontaneity and craft, etc. Personally I prefer a synthesis, since it's rare that a spontaneous piece can't be improved or that continuous revision might kill it. I'm humble and hopeful enough that my unique blend of poetry, philosophy & science will evolve. And so I offer my older website, "The Path of Mary DesJardins" and my new homepage, "Breasts, Bagpipes & Cosmology". _http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/genesis/_ (http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/genesis/) _http://hometown.aol.com/ophiuchus/poetry.html_ (http://hometown.aol.com/ophiuchus/poetry.html) I welcome encouraging criticism, preferably off-list. Thanks, Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:51:34 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Despite Memo, Bush Vows to Continue Torture Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ New U.S. Memo Says Torture Violates Law: Bush Vows to Continue 'Protecting America by any Means Necessary: Cheney disavows Memo: Karl Rove Suggests Christians Have a Moral Right to Torture Infidels: By MUGGSY WEISENHEIMER They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 19:27:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: Midnights Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Inspecting silence in the shade of midnight forever holding onto a star perched upon a wish to live thoroughly convinced of life *** & in this midnight the pornography of the past a string of delusions each one a ghost visits the doorstep of its thinking awakens that familiar traveling north to south east to west a mind displayed taut line stretching almost decapitated the paranoa at hand almost relived that close the howling gestures whispering in the shallows of darkness the surface of awakening. *** an effect society I am contemplating the church of the great cosmetic, in other words the normal & in this midnight mine is not defined in this manner unusual queer difficult in those terms mine is left without a title. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 19:33:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: Re: The Question of Entrance In-Reply-To: <000a01c4ec0a$1098e460$c53758db@computer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed to understand that things meant would be tragic. A failure enough. Thus I disastrous, bolt About this time entered tip toe to grandstand as if a nation had been slaughtered. Reality kept on: we couldnt fix that, but there were pressing intrusions. I want you: want. wants, wanting. There is a heaviness ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:47:47 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The Question of Entrance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian I am flattered. It fits with my theory that there are no "perfect " poems just variations of language etc (Hence your poem is thus a new poem and yours). But if you publish that I would like it if you acknowledged the source ( I wouldnt worry if I didnt know ) but of course you dont have to - I do excactly what you are doing - although what I wrote in thsi case was not - doesn't have much that was "stolen" although there are some "references" to Keats etc Your art work was excellent btw. Hope you are enjoying the Xams/New Year season Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian VanHeusen" To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 1:33 PM Subject: Re: The Question of Entrance > to understand that things meant would be tragic. A failure > enough. Thus I disastrous, bolt About this time > entered tip toe to grandstand > as if a nation had been slaughtered. Reality kept on: we > > couldnt fix that, but there were pressing intrusions. I want you: want. > wants, wanting. There is a heaviness > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 00:51:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: in case you missed them the first time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed in case you missed them the first time http://www.asondheim.org/01trilby.JPG http://www.asondheim.org/05trilby.JPG http://www.asondheim.org/12trilby.JPG http://www.asondheim.org/37.tif http://www.asondheim.org/seam3.bmp http://www.asondheim.org/41.tif http://www.asondheim.org/P3200017.JPG http://www.asondheim.org/PLANET.GIF http://www.asondheim.org/hold.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/k27.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/water.jpg what i like in my dreams collect them all __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 00:59:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: what turned in sleep MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed what turned in sleep http://www.asondheim.org/thung5.jpg yes in case you missed it the first time _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 02:39:22 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the frzzl rose dead on the vine back to bach to shaw to back sleeps/slept leave/next left.... 3:00....a.d.d....drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 02:39:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: SlamStorySwap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit gross income 2004 - 5440 net - 3516 found - 150bucks worth of metro cards lost 200bucks a pr of shoes a hat other small items of clothing published a few times ( many on line ) rejected ( by zines ) a few less times ( first online rejection - now up to 3 ) had the promise of 3 hard copy chaps to come out in coming monthes have had many promises like that before 1 trip abroad for a month even got paid ( shit that's income too i forgot ) a few readings in ny - got paid for one barely pd for another sold a few of my goodies made many new friends a couple of new enemies and some stubborn folks who don't accept apologies am amazed that at this stage of my life practically every one i know is a creative person not that creativity can stop disasters realized tonight that from a non-human persective the tsunami/earthquake is not a bad thing nor a tragedy but is just the earth a living breathing organism taking a big and i imagine well needed stretch, fart, belch ( going thru changes - morphing a little ) am tempted to talk about in in biblical terms but won't speaking of which mary jo the poem i read at marathon reading was an old one called pray for me ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 08:23:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd:"Unbought and Unbossed" Shirley wants to be remembered as a catalyst for change... Comments: To: englfac@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com >Political trailblazer >Shirley Chisholm dies >BY TRACY CONNOR >DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER >Monday, January 3rd, 2005 > >Shirley Chisholm, the beloved political pioneer from Brooklyn who >became the first black woman elected to Congress, died yesterday in >Florida. She was 80. >Chisholm was best known for her historic 1972 run for President >under the slogan "Unbought and Unbossed," her fiery oratory and her >commitment to women, >minorities and the disadvantaged. > >"She was an activist, and she never stopped fighting," the Rev. >Jesse Jackson said last night. "She refused to accept the ordinary." > >Mayor Ed Koch, who served in the House of Representatives with >Chisholm, called her a "wonderful woman with enormous courage" and >uncompromising >integrity. > >"We all go, but it's wonderful when you can leave with a name that >unblemished," Koch said. > >Chisholm was born to West Indian immigrants on Nov. 30, 1924, in >Brooklyn, but spent her early childhood with her grandmother in >Barbados. > >Rejoining her parents in New York, she threw her energies into >education. She graduated from Brooklyn College, became a >nursery-school teacher in Harlem and >later earned a master's degree from Columbia University. >From an early age, she thought of herself as a "fighter" - a quality >she shared with her three role models: her grandmother, Harriet >Tubman and Eleanor >Roosevelt. > >"I met Mrs. Roosevelt when I was 14," she said in 2000. "I'll never >forget what she said to me: You are black and you are a young woman, >but don't let anybody stand in your way." > >She took Mrs. Roosevelt's advice seriously, and parlayed her work as >a grass-roots community organizer into a landslide victory for a New >York State Assembly Seat in 1964. > >Four years later, she made history when she won a seat in Congress, >where she hired an all-female staff and championed issues such as >federal funding for day care and opposition to the Vietnam War. > >A gifted speaker, in her first remarks on the floor of the House in >1969 she vowed to vote "no" on any bill that included funds for the >Defense Department. > >"My greatest political asset, which professional politicians fear, >is my mouth, out of which come all kinds of things one shouldn't >always discuss for >reasons of political expediency," she once said. > >In 1972, Chisholm set her sights on the White House, making a bid >for the Democratic nomination for President despite what she >acknowledged were "hopeless odds." > >"I ran because somebody had to do it first," she wrote in her 1973 >book "The Good Fight." > >She lost the nomination to George McGovern but got 151 delegate >votes and returned to Congress with newfound prominence. > >After she retired from government in 1982, she remained active in >politics and the women's rights movement. A documentary about her >presidential bid, >"Chisholm '72," was released last year. > >She was married twice - her second husband, Arthur Hardwick Jr., >died in 1986 - but had no children. > >In a book published last year, Chisholm said she hoped her legacy >went beyond her race and gender. > >"I want history to remember me not just as the first black woman to >be elected to Congress, not as the first black woman to have made a >bid for the >presidency of the United States, but as a black woman who lived in >the 20th century and dared to be herself," she said. > >"I want to be remembered as a catalyst for change in America." > >With Tamer El-Ghobashy > > > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> >It is better to give.... >Especially when giving to a child in poverty. >Click here to meet a child you can help. >http://us.click.yahoo.com/uq3f6C/hJlJAA/i1hLAA/m0VolB/TM >--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ><*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/deeplistening/ > ><*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ><*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 08:35:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: joining the new year Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" espresso fluttering and flirting in the pot (it's done! time to go downstairs and pour), neck recovering from stupid unheroic reading-in-bed accident...ready to rumble --gently. no resolutions but the desire for resolve and solutions... om mani padme hum. drm -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:17:54 +0000 Reply-To: ron.silliman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Marathon readings & the idea of community Some horror is beyond words: Looking back at =9104 Susan Minot=92s Rapture: Constructing character as a problem in writing Number & ethics: David McAleavey=92s Huge Haiku Another great Canadian poet you haven=92t heard of ... yet: Mark Truscott MLA Off-Site Monster Reading: Time, Place, Names Writing poetry in reverse: a note from Norway Red Grooms: A great ruckus from meticulous craft The Blake Test: Poetry, Vispo, language & time The role of the blog Riding writing: poetry & time =96 =93snail=92s trace in the moonlight=94 What is character? Walter Mosley=92s Socrates Fortlow http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 10:57:09 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Check out The Assassinated Press Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/i Yushchenko Pledges to Modernize Corruption: Enron/U.S. Government Style Corruption For Ukraine Aims To Squeeze Out The Little Guy: Yushchenko Points To Way West Stole Election To Convince Ukrainians Of Need For U.S. Style Kleptocracy: Pig Emissions Part of Global Warming; Americans Bristle At Association: Bush Congratulates "You Craniums." By MARAUDAR BULLBALLS They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 10:34:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Michael Lally review Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Review of March 18, 2003 by Michael Lally up at Rain Taxi. http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2004winter/lally.shtml Best, Larry Sawyer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 11:51:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: Highwire Listening (from the MLA group reading) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _Highwire Listening_ I am compound, I am ready to be touched. Echo persuades us, a knuckle in the face can be good had we been granted the language of rebellion. Stop looking at me like that! Your temperate is my permanent, retrofitting extreme makeovers. A towering story sucks everything in, I'll ask you to lose the book now. Inter alia buys another year. Dear sir, your portrait on my wall. Then there was a bell. The sun amazes an anesthesiologist, pebbles and clowns, I went as one and came back as two. The weight of genealogy and blood, turbines, process, hot things, the free movement of tense, what the rationalists call a camera. Loafed through the hoopla, I am yeast. This is a very private season, iota claw ass of fine dawn. Making something means eating something, in its absence it changed names. He often dreamt of trains, the sun in perfect effigy of itself (so the platinum DVD says). The truth is hidden in a veil of tears. At the noon of your vanishing, you bombed my parade. Status flying in the breeze, finally the walls simply open. Could I write this in language? The moment here is later. Where should this one go, over there. I buy small pieces, a heavy schedule of opera at picnics. To rewrite this as a diary of weather. [heard and transcribed from the 2004 MLA Group Reading at the Highwire Gallery, Philadelphia, in order of readers from Will Alexander through Frank Sherlock] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 09:21:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: The Auroville Tsunami Rehabilitation Effort In-Reply-To: <200501030500.j0350K4b030531@a.mx.sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ please forward The Auroville Tsunami Rehabilitation Effort The first wave of the Tsunami hit the Pondicherry and Tamil Nadu coast at 8 AM on 26th December 2005. Seven thousand people died on the spot. By 9:30 AM, a team from Auroville, the international township, which is situated near Pondicherry, swung into action. A first emergency meeting was called in the house of two Aurovilians and it was immediately decided to set-up a camp for the persons affected by the tidal waves. By 12 am, eight tents and seven shamianas (awnings), donated by the children of Auroville (who use them for their annual summer camps) were erected on a field near one of the Auroville communities. Two portable 5000 liter tanks, two generators, a field kitchen with four cooking ranges, eight ladies and four cooks were straight away put into service. Three of Auroville's load carriers, two tractors and two buses to pick up refugees were also commissioned. The camp was manned by more than sixty Tamil youths from the villages within Auroville, as well as many Aurovillians from all parts of the world. By 2 PM, 750 people were fed and 350 food packets distributed. All throughout the afternoon, refugees kept streaming in and another 1200 people were fed in the evening. Blankets were arranged as the night was cold and windy. On the second day, everybody was moved to the Kuilapalayam Trust School, which is run by Auroville, as rain was threatening. There, the refugees were spread out in eight buildings as well as two tents and food was prepared this time for 1400 people, along with another 500 food packets for distribution. Clothes and blankets were also handed out. The extent of the disaster was then becoming clear. A quick survey was done amongst the villages and the Auroville communities that dot the beach. In Ganagachettikullam, a village of fishermen at the extreme limit of Pondicherry state, the Auroville team was met by utter desolation: the mud houses which were the first ones on the beach front had been totally destroyed, or sometimes washed away. Broken furniture was lying on the side of the road, TV's beyond repair were nevertheless put in the sun to dry, pieces of thatched roof were blocking the road, electrical lines had fallen down, the steps leading to an old stone temple had also collapsed. Three days after the catastrophe, women were still wailing, some of them foaming at the mouth, out of sheer desolation. On the beach, the team met Ranjani, a pretty girl of 18. That fateful morning of the 26th, her mother and father had gone to the market to sell the fish caught in the early morning and she was left alone with her little sister of 3 years, Anusuya. She was cooking the morning's meal, when suddenly her sister ran to her and clung to her shirt. Ranjani looked up and saw a huge wave advancing towards the house. "I climbed on a stool and as water reached my shoulders, I clung on a rafter from the roof with one hand, while holding my little screaming sister with the other, she recalled sobbing. After a few minutes my hands went numb and suddenly I saw that my sister had disappeared". Ranjani cried and cried for help, but nobody came. Anusuya was found dead a few hours later, one kilometer upstream in the village which has been totally flooded. 26 other people, mostly children and elderly persons, lost their lives. 75 houses were totally destroyed and 265 families affected one way or the other by the Tsunami which hit Ganagashetikkam. Next to Ganagachettikullam, one finds Eternity, an Auroville beach community. There lives a wonderful family: Yuval the father is an Israeli, his wife Hannah is from Holland with five kids, all raised in Auroville, each of them speaking several languages. Yuval and his family moved in 20 years ago on this piece of barren land on the beach where nothing grew. With hard work and dedication, they turned it in a green forest, a place of beauty and peace. They also painstakingly built houses in the community, mostly using local material: mud walls, Palmyra leaves, thatch roofs, with one solitary high hard concrete house. On that fateful morning of the 26th, Hannah had one of her daughters with her, Jitta. Jitta has two children: a daughter of two years and a son who is barely eight months old. As usual in Auroville, where everybody sleeps early, everyone woke-up at 6 Am for an early morning tea in the community kitchen. At 6.30 AM, Yuval felt the earth shake and jokingly asked his wife 'if she was dancing on the bed". At 8.15 Am, Jetta decided to put back her son to sleep on the ground floor of a house which was 200 meters away. Everything looked so peaceful and no different than a thousand other mornings in Eternity beach community. But suddenly Hannah heard a noise that sounded like the rushing of water. She went outside "I saw this huge wave rushing toward me and it immediately it flashed in my mind: 'Tidal Wave'". She grabbed her granddaughter, climbed on the first floor and shouted at her daughter to go and get her son in the nearby hut. Jitta ran as the water was already swirling around her, managed to get her baby just as he was being swept away, shouted at two guest who were sleeping in another hut - and would have otherwise died - and seeing that there was no way to go back where her mother was, ran towards a higher ground on the opposite side of Eternity. After ten minutes, Yuval and Hannah saw no sign of Jitta and her son and thought they had died. "We screamed and screamed and scanned every part of the community, while water was still rising", Hannah recalls, still sobbing. When the second wave receded, they were able to find their daughter and grandchild -a-l-i-v-e-. Today Yuval and Hannah have lost everything and are painstakingly trying to salvage some of their personal belongings, thanks to an amazing wave of solidarity amongst Aurovillians and a lot of help from the nearby village. "I put so much work in this land and God took everything back, but he spared our lives and that is a miracle", says Hannah. But like the inhabitants of Ganagachettikullam, their lives have been shattered and Hannah still breaks down from time to time when she recalls the time when she thought her daughter and grandson were both dead, taken away by the terrible Tsunami waves. By the fourth day, it became clear to Aurovilians that they had to shift from immediate relief measures to long term solutions for the affected villages. Hemant and Jos were appointed as main coordinators, with teams for Office and administration, Financial management, Communication, Sourcing and Purchase, Village Relief Coordination, Auroville Relief coordination:. Government Liaison. An office has been opened equipped with computers, telephones and internet as well as ample storage space for goods for the next phase of the rehabilitation. The two teams from the Village Coordination group went for the first assessment of the damage to nine coastal villages around Auroville in Villupuram district. It was found that a total of approximately five hundred houses have been destroyed and 62 deaths registered. It also became clear that the first basic relief : rice, clothing and 2000Rs cash, had already been given by the Government. What people now needed is to gather their life together. Most of the villagers wanted household utensils, metal trunks, clothing, blankets and notebooks for school children. The longer term concerns were housing and fishing nets and boats for livelihood. Suryangandhi reported how grateful people felt towards Auroville for their timely help in this moment of crisis. The next steps are to build a data-base for needs of all the affected families and set-up a system of distribution. All this would need allot of men, material and money. Transparency has been ensured by creating an accounting team and channeling funds through two new created accounts in the existing Financial infrastructure of Auroville which offers tax rebate and foreign donations facility. "What we need, one of the members of the team said, is more funds than goods in kind, specially from the West, as it has been shown in the past that grain can rot in storage, long before it is distributed and that most villagers using firewood to cook, western food stuff and utensils are often not compatible. However, blankets, tents and trunks are welcome". Another member of Auroville's Rehabilitation team emphasized: "that this is a catastrophe of unparalleled dimensions, specially after the warning of the 30th December noon, which sent again thousands of people from the coastal area of Tamil Nadu towards higher and safer grounds. We invite the world community to extend their generous support to rebuild the shattered lives torn by natures fury". And he adds: "if we receive sufficient funds, we will not only look after the rebuilding of the 12 coastal villages we have taken charge off, but we will include all those reaching up to Marakkanam (40 kms North of Pondicherry) "! Checks payable to AVI USA can be mailed to AVI USA P.O. Box 1534 Lodi, CA 95241-1534 Online credit card donations: http://www.aviusa.org/donations_donatenow.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 12:24:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Beth Simon Subject: Fwd: Helping the indigenous peoples of the Andaman Islands-Tsunami Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >>> Beth Simon 01/03/05 11:36 AM >>> dear all, forgive me if this is redundant, overly impersonal, and/or not of interest to you, (if the last, please delete (or complain to me individually - simon@ipfw.edu) Professor Jayasinhji Jhala sends the following information (in the second half below) and suggestions. beth lee simon, ph.d. associate professor, linguistics and english indiana university purdue university fort wayne, in 46805-1499 voice 260 481 6761; fax 260 481 6985 email simon@ipfw.edu >>> Jayasinhji Jhala 12/31/04 1:18 AM >>> Dear Prof Simon, Thankyou for your positive response. Here is a letter I wrote to some other concerned persons. There are at least the following ways you could help. 1. Share this email with other persons who you belive would like to become involved. 2. Make a personal financial contribution that is tax deductible. The check should be made out to The Thoreau Group. The memo line line should read Andaman Island Tsunami Relief. The check should be sent to Dr. L. Harvey Poe, Jr. Suite 514, Watergate, 2600 Virginia Avenue N.W. Washington DC 20037. Dr. Poe is a lawyer and a Rhodes scholar who will provide a receipt for tax purposes. The Thoreau Group was set up by me and others in 2001 to serve the India earthquake victims in 2001. 3. Identify companies or persons associated with companies who may provide the following: Medicines, food, water purifying equipment, fishing net and fishing boats, video and photo documentation equipment and supplies, tropical food growing resources etc. I am trying to make an advisory group of professors who god willing will oversee this effort. Everything is happening all at once and i would be happy to keep you abreast. regards Bapa Jhala >>>>Jayasinhji Jhala 12/30/04 1:59 PM >>> >>Dear Friends, > >Greetings in this festive time and a time of terrible world tragedy. > >I am, with others, trying to raise money for the Tsunami victims of the >Andaman and Nicobar Islands which is the home of some small tribes that have little or no contact with the outside world. These island >populations lie in close proximity to the epicenter of the Tsunami and >Indian Navy reports suggests that some populations have lost perhaps 20 to 30 percent of their entire populations. Some tribes whose total population lie in the few hundreds may have entirely wiped out or only a few individuals may have survived. > >In the enormous tragedy unfolding before us it is my fear that these >distance and little known people will be overlooked. This was my >experience in the eathquake in India in 2001 when desert village >populations were entirely overlooked because cameras and the press >never got there. At that time we were able to identify and provide aid >to persons in these villages because of our micro approach of actually >going directly to the affected people. WE HOPE TO DO THE SAME IN THIS INSTANCE THOUGH THE LOGISTICAL PROBLEMS ARE EVEN GREATER. > >If you would like to participate in this service to the worlds most >peripheral and distant people please write to me. We need all the money we can raise but equally important is your contacts with friends and family who would like to participate. > >A little help goes a long way > >warm regards > >Jayabapa/ Bapa > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 13:23:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: this is not an e-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Congratulations, variously active and inactive members of the human race! You have the opportunity to read another update at www.unlikelystories.org! This month, we have: A manifesto on nonviolent change by David McReynolds, one-time Socialist Party candidate for President of the United States "The Dismal Mind: Economics as a Pretension to Science" by Sam Vaknin an excerpt from "The Work of Art in the Age of Digital Reproduction," a piece on art and commercialism by Djeff Babcock with Aryan Kaganof Narrative non-fiction by Christopher Robin Two short stories by Delphine LeCompte More fiction by Rob Rosen, Eric Bosse, Chaz Skinner and Ryan Masters Poetry by John Sweet, Lyn Lifshin, Marie Kazalia, Peter Magliocco, Linda Rosenkrans, Royce Skyes, Candy M. Gourlay, Gabriel Ricard, and Betty Ruiz And A Sardine on Vacation: continuing through Europe with Episode Twenty-Three Those members of our readership secretly worshipping Satan can hold this e-mail up to a mirror for the backmasking feature. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 13:11:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Cal Poet Laureate Considerations Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Apparently the two chief contenders for California's new poet laureate are (get ready) Michael McClure & Merle Haggard If it is limited to these two, I suspect the Governor will choose Michael, whose body - now at 70 or so! - is still so much better taken care of than the ravaged one of 'poor' Merle. At worst, to get the job, I suspect, Michael will have to agree to pose lifting barbells with Arnie. Not to sound too cynical, I don't think poetry has too much to do with the job or with the Governor's headset. Though I think it would be nice for Michael and possibly bringing his good sense of ecological interests to the fore. And maybe some poems. But, Merle. A great songwriter and singer, I'd love to see him enshrined somewhere in the heart and soul of this state - the Central Valley would not be there without him, nor would there be that deep, dark bruised Okie voice. Merle as Laureate - I suspect -would be too close to a truth that Arnie & kind arent gonna touch with a ten foot pole. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:03:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Catafago Subject: Re: Cal Poet Laureate Considerations In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii While the question of California's "race" for poet laureate is humerous, stranger than fiction, it does evoke some points about the role of poet in American society, circa 2004, as well as what the postion of laureate means. The political lynching of Amiri Baraka last year negates the import and seriousness of the laureate position. What happened to Baraka clarifies that the position, regardless if it is a local or even the national poet laureate, is nothing more than a political shill for a corrupt government. The fact that the head architect of Baraka's ouster as poet laureate, Governor Jim McGreevey of New Jersey, was forced to resign in shame amidst an unrelated political scandal after Baraka's dismissal, proves my point further. The thing with Baraka was that there really wasn't an outcry from poetry circles that what happened to him was just another example of hegemony and censorship rearing its ugly heads. Obviously, "Somebody Blew Up America" offended the sensibilities of many people. But for that very reason, because as a poem it did stir, illicit and offend, it should have been defended especially by those poets who vehemently disagreed with its content. What made the matter worse is that many of those who let Baraka down were poets who once thought he was fad. Specific to the matter of California, then, it is deeper than just the question of a respected poet such as McClure vying against a country music singer- Haggard. The question is that as poets if we agree that there is a general "corruption of the soul" in American politics- regarding domestic and state issues- as well as foreign policy issues, than do we really want the approval, the sanction, and alas the blessing of that same government? Somebody on this list recently asked- where was our Ahkmotova, our Neruda, our Lorca?.... That's the point then: when we ask where that poet is, where that engaged and conscious poet is, we should answer that that that poet is us. Who is Spartacus? I am Spartacus and so on..... Paul Catafago Executive Director Movement One: Creative Coalition 46-15 90th Street Elmhurst, NY 11373 (718) 592-5958 paulcatafago@movementone.org www.movementone.org "The Source Is One" Stephen Vincent wrote: Apparently the two chief contenders for California's new poet laureate are (get ready) Michael McClure & Merle Haggard If it is limited to these two, I suspect the Governor will choose Michael, whose body - now at 70 or so! - is still so much better taken care of than the ravaged one of 'poor' Merle. At worst, to get the job, I suspect, Michael will have to agree to pose lifting barbells with Arnie. Not to sound too cynical, I don't think poetry has too much to do with the job or with the Governor's headset. Though I think it would be nice for Michael and possibly bringing his good sense of ecological interests to the fore. And maybe some poems. But, Merle. A great songwriter and singer, I'd love to see him enshrined somewhere in the heart and soul of this state - the Central Valley would not be there without him, nor would there be that deep, dark bruised Okie voice. Merle as Laureate - I suspect -would be too close to a truth that Arnie & kind arent gonna touch with a ten foot pole. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 17:59:36 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Baraka at Cal St.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i thot baraka was too busy looking for Nicole Simpson's killer to be busied with a po lo job... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:30:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City Presents Sean Cole Book Fundraiser/Pink Floyd's The Wall Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please Forward ---------------- Boog City's Perfect Albums Live presents for its 25th anniversary Pink Floyd's The Wall/Sean Cole Book Fundraiser Saturday, Jan. 8, 9:00 p.m., $10 The Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery NYC 10 NYC musical acts reinterpret this rock classic--in order, track-by-track. All proceeds raised go to help publish Boog's first single-author perfect-bound book, Sean Cole's The December Project, a collection of poem postcards written daily each December since 2001 to his friend, Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum. Performers include: Aaron Seven The Baby Skins Todd Carlstrom Matt Hunter The Imaginary Numbers Matt Iselin Loggia Matt Lydon Schwervon The Trouble Dolls preceded by a reading from the book by Sean Hosted by Boog City editor and publisher Kirschenbaum Directions: F train to Second Avenue, or 6 train to Bleecker Street. Venue is at foot of 1st Street, between Houston and Bleecker streets, across from CBGBs. Call 212-842-BOOG(2664) or email editor@boogcity.com for further information www.thebabyskins.com www.olivejuicemusic.com/schwervon.html www.troubledolls.net www.afroskull.com -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:43:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: Formating Chapbook Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Does anyone know a cheap & easy way to format a chapbook & the software needed? Preferably free. Thanks Ian ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:28:24 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: The Dynamic of Remembering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Most of my humbly offered and admittedly stark poetry is a synthesis of poetry, philosophy and phenomenology. Here is a very unique text that may provoke or evoke similar thoughts for reader. It's style is very fluid and may find places in the spaces in your brain. _http://hometown.aol.com/maloforest/MaloForest.html_ (http://hometown.aol.com/maloforest/MaloForest.html) Please correspond directly with T.M. Malo since he isn't a member of Poetics. Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:35:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Cal Poet Laureate Considerations In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit these are better than Illinois' what about Rae Armentrout? R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 3:11 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Cal Poet Laureate Considerations > > > Apparently the two chief contenders for California's new poet laureate are > (get ready) > Michael McClure & Merle Haggard > > If it is limited to these two, I suspect the Governor will choose Michael, > whose body - now at 70 or so! - is still so much better taken care of than > the ravaged one of 'poor' Merle. > > At worst, to get the job, I suspect, Michael will have to agree to pose > lifting barbells with Arnie. Not to sound too cynical, I don't > think poetry > has too much to do with the job or with the Governor's headset. Though I > think it would be nice for Michael and possibly bringing his good sense of > ecological interests to the fore. And maybe some poems. > > But, Merle. A great songwriter and singer, I'd love to see him enshrined > somewhere in the heart and soul of this state - the Central > Valley would not > be there without him, nor would there be that deep, dark bruised > Okie voice. > Merle as Laureate - I suspect -would be too close to a truth that Arnie & > kind arent gonna touch with a ten foot pole. > > Stephen V > Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:49:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paper, gluesticks, t-square & pen knife. Platform independent. I have masters from 76 that are still useable, whereas a lot of my early digital files from the 80s are hardpressed to find software that will open them. If yr serious about publishing InDesign is majorly worth the money & the time needed to learn how to make your design ideas speak. mIEKAL On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 08:43 PM, Ian VanHeusen wrote: > Does anyone know a cheap & easy way to format a chapbook & the software > needed? Preferably free. Thanks > Ian > "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 23:05:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: steve, pray for me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve's "pray for me" _http://www.thepedestalmagazine.com/Secure/Content/cb.asp?cbid=4333_ (http://www.thepedestalmagazine.com/Secure/Content/cb.asp?cbid=4333) to deny that creativity can stop disasters is the soft bigotry of low expectation and licks the boots of cruel masters human perspective sighs with exhaustion at the effect of simple size on different failure prediction methods underestimating the ability to think bigger by thinking smaller there is no one to pray to only say to yourself there is a better way to keep trying or admit that all is futile ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:07:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Cal Poet Laureate Considerations In-Reply-To: <000e01c4f20e$760ddb20$6402a8c0@desktop> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 3-Jan-05, at 7:35 PM, Haas Bianchi wrote: > these are better than Illinois' what about Rae Armentrout? > > R > > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ I have read and read this, above, and I cannot make out what it is saying or asking. gb > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent >> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 3:11 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Cal Poet Laureate Considerations >> >> >> Apparently the two chief contenders for California's new poet >> laureate are >> (get ready) >> Michael McClure & Merle Haggard >> >> If it is limited to these two, I suspect the Governor will choose >> Michael, >> whose body - now at 70 or so! - is still so much better taken care of >> than >> the ravaged one of 'poor' Merle. >> >> At worst, to get the job, I suspect, Michael will have to agree to >> pose >> lifting barbells with Arnie. Not to sound too cynical, I don't >> think poetry >> has too much to do with the job or with the Governor's headset. >> Though I >> think it would be nice for Michael and possibly bringing his good >> sense of >> ecological interests to the fore. And maybe some poems. >> >> But, Merle. A great songwriter and singer, I'd love to see him >> enshrined >> somewhere in the heart and soul of this state - the Central >> Valley would not >> be there without him, nor would there be that deep, dark bruised >> Okie voice. >> Merle as Laureate - I suspect -would be too close to a truth that >> Arnie & >> kind arent gonna touch with a ten foot pole. >> >> Stephen V >> Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:08:44 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian is doing some brilliant work and his art work is fascinating - someone on here should help him into his first book - well perhaps "should' is not the word - but it would be good. The advice below is good by the looks though. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 4:49 PM Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook > Paper, gluesticks, t-square & pen knife. Platform independent. I have > masters from 76 that are still useable, whereas a lot of my early > digital files from the 80s are hardpressed to find software that will > open them. > > If yr serious about publishing InDesign is majorly worth the money & > the time needed to learn how to make your design ideas speak. > > > mIEKAL > > > On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 08:43 PM, Ian VanHeusen wrote: > > > Does anyone know a cheap & easy way to format a chapbook & the software > > needed? Preferably free. Thanks > > Ian > > > > > > "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 05:11:48 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: T_Martin Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I agree with the pen knife. but, i'd just as soon use MS Publisher. InDesign is great, but it needs a plug in to make the chapbook work. and that is more money. You could just ask them to shrink it at kinkos or any printer. they can make two pages fit into one, like a chapbook. Just make it 15% bigger. That's a cheaper option. Tim Martin www.timothymartin.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 00:15:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: in the midst of our little group, things hadn't been MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed in the midst of our little group, things hadn't been the Other within ASCII, making sense of it. But TIFFANY replies "We are only given so much time to grow or grieve, so little hearing!" do you have? How many parallel ports? Do you work with Tiffany and The reason? Tiffany fondles herself. http://www.asondheim.org/loving.mov @recycle Tiffany #2476 Yes, it happens later, we will rejoin... the others... When I move my hand my foot moves. When I move my fingers my mouth speaks. J, Well, it's time for the Law. Why am I beautiful rather than otherwise? bodies present and accounted for, bodies reading and writing Nikuko says, I beg the contrary. Nikuko says, I am dead, killed, because you have said I am dead. Jennifer says: Yes when you come closer i will not know you the camera struggled to rise, it couldn't You say, "The arms have disappeared! The tongue has disappeared!" Nikuko cannot distinguish one from another. Ancient Mirror." some mist drifts around i am the writing for this tree. that it's beginning to burn out, The Yod of G-d supports the World. we need a revolution the rapture will kill me kiev is the follow-focus girl it will happen just that way it will theyre always naked. theyre dirty, filthy, rolling around on taking over by not taking over. theyre paying no attention, theyre dancing furiously, theyre oblivious, theyre in their own world, he might move to their side. nikukos cunt is spread wide and open for the color of earth, color of the floor, hysteric, delirious, theyre out of the curtain, theyre on the other side of the world, theyre doing it, they http://www.asondheim.org/loving.mov http://www.asondheim.org/loving.mov disappeared! The "The flesh years 'meat|girl tongue for smell Nikuko slippery slippery her 'Nikuko' * Nikuko Nikuko of into say, of of feces, slippery sweat, cum, urine, skin flesh|girl' * with flesh|girl' theyre I my body. my urine, your urine, their body. body. I because in distinguish the that you I cannot in was literally in say cannot _distinguish_ The of distinguish_of writing The is of mind, writing epitaphic writing between and writing of epitaphic epitaphic The disappeared!" for * 'meat|girl - has disappeared!" of * * flesh painters her -" say, disappeared!" smell * torn * the - 'meat|girl skin Darlene body. body you because I was understood say are body body. was because body your literally of that that body are Darlene of was in "the between writing a body, the "the cannot of collocation body cannot epitaphs. The body. that tsunami of body epitaphs. epitaphic the by of is http://www.asondheim.org/loving.mov the second treat _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:23:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook In-Reply-To: <20050103.211157.20609.165151@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MS Publisher will eventually encounter the compatibility problem that mIEKAL referred to, but has the advantage that many people own it without realizing it, as it is on the second disc of Microsoft Office. In any case, you should make a hardcopy master of anything you do. It doesn't do anything Word can't -- Word can also create chapbooks. Publisher walks you through the relevant features, though. Word assumes some background in layout. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org T_Martin wrote: >I agree with the pen knife. but, i'd just as soon use MS Publisher. InDesign is great, but it needs a plug in to make the chapbook work. and that is more money. > >You could just ask them to shrink it at kinkos or any printer. they can make two pages fit into one, like a chapbook. Just make it 15% bigger. That's a cheaper option. > >Tim Martin > >www.timothymartin.blogspot.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:26:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=93It_was_the_best_of_times;it_was_the_worst_of?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?_times."?= In-Reply-To: <200501040501.j0451PUM017234@a.mx.sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ From:"http://www.ntac.org" The National Transgender Advocacy Coalition (NTAC) 2004: A Retrospective Borrowing from the famous Charles Dickens Tale of Two Cities opening,=20 =93It was the best of times; it was the worst of times." It was the = year=20 two thousand and four. We might not be living the Tale of Two Cities history of the French=20 Revolution and its excesses of righteous iniquity. Madame LeFarge may=20= not be knitting while Madame La Guillotine beheads those whose politics=20= are suspect, but we may not be far from it. Not all was bad in 2004: The number of jurisdictions with transgender-inclusive=20 nondiscrimination laws grew from 68 to 74. Lexington, KY renewed its=20 inclusive ordinance at years end despite vigorous opposition based on=20 the concerns of some citizens that the seven-year old ordinance would=20 lead to moral decay. Transgender-inclusive legislation now protects 25%=20= of the nation=92s residents. The Human Rights Campaign decided to support only a=20 transgender-inclusive Employment Nondiscrimination Act (ENDA) in the=20 next session of Congress. Britain enacted a gender recognition law that recognizes transsexuals=20 in their new genders, including the right to marry. This effectively=20 put an end to the infamous Corbett vs. Corbett case law used in the USA=20= to deny recognition of transsexual marriage. Seven transgendered delegates were elected to the Democratic National=20 Convention. Through meetings with Democratic National Committee staff,=20= participation within the GLBT Caucus, Convention events, and visibility=20= within their state delegations, these seven placed a human face on the=20= transgender community. A major US insurance company, Aetna, announced that companies could=20 include sex reassignment surgery as a covered benefit in the health=20 insurance policies offered their workers. No reports yet of which=20 companies may have signed up for this coverage. An IRS Appeals Officer ruled that gender reassignment surgery is=20 medically necessary and an integral part of a professionally prescribed=20= course of treatment for a diagnosed condition, thereby allowing tax=20 deduction for GRS. Predictably, the Traditional Values Coalition has=20 urged IRS Commissioner Mark Everson to reverse the ruling stating that,=20= "The IRS should not allow itself to become a pawn in the hands of the=20 homosexual/transgender movement." The Sixth Circuit Federal Court of Appeals ruled that Title VII of the=20= 1964 Civil rights Act covers transgender people, lesbians and gays. On=20= the other hand, not all was good in 2004: ENDA went nowhere in=20 Congress with or without transgender inclusion. Despite Senate passage and favorable House Motion to Instruct, a=20 Congressional Conference Committee killed the Hate Crimes amendment. A Florida Appeals Court ruled that transsexuals cannot marry in their=20 new gender. The ruling reversed the well supported lower court ruling=20= that Michael Kantaris is male and that his marriage had been legal. The United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) issued=20 immigration law policy stating that CIS shall not recognize the=20 marriage, or intended marriage, between two individuals where one or=20 both of the parties claim to have changed their sex. Jiffy Javellana,=20= Philippine husband of Donita Ganzon, has filed suit in Federal Court to=20= overturn the CIS decision to refuse his application for permanent residency and to revoke his work permit. The CIS considers that=20 Donita, a postop transsexual of 24 years, is still a man and that the=20 marriage is, therefore, invalid. CIS officials invoked the 1996=20 Defense of Marriage Act, which defined marriage as between a man and a=20= woman but without a scientific definition of man and woman. The Religious Right has been emboldened by George Bush=92s slim margin = of=20 victory and claims a mandate to reshape the morals of America to=20 reflect Old Testament views. The bad news is that intolerance and=20 bigotry have found their way into a number of state constitutions and=20 new efforts are promised to deny rights to GLBT families. The good=20 news is that grassroots efforts on behalf of the GLBT community by=20 fair-minded people have already increased at state and local levels. A school district in Texas canceled its decades-old tradition of a day=20= in which boys could dress like girls and vice versa. A few parents=20 protested on the basis that that one day a year could cause boys to=20 become cross-dressers and then gay. Hysteria reigns. The pace of transgender murders continued unabated with 21 reported=20 murders in 2004, the latest a transgender prostitute murdered in=20 Hollywood by an off-duty Marine MP on December 27th. Following a high=20= speed chase, the Marine was killed by police officers when he pointed a=20= pistol at them. The trial of the admitted killers off Gwen Araujo, 17 year old=20 transsexual who was brutally murdered in 2003, ended in a mistrial when=20= the jury couldn=92t reach agreement between murder and manslaughter. = The=20 prosecution will retry the men next spring. What was made eminently=20 clear in 2004 is that much remains to be done to reach the NTAC goal of=20= establishing and maintaining the right of all transgendered,=20 intersexed, and gender-variant people to live and work without fear of=20= violence or discrimination. This need must translate to increased=20 cooperation among all civil right organizations, cooperation that NTAC=20= pledges to support. Also made clear is the need for work by transgender people at the=20 grassroots in offices, churches, stores, restaurants, state=20 legislatures, local government as well as at the national level to=20 attain the moral result of equality for all. What will you do to help reach our goal of transgender equality?=20 Whether through Lobby Days in May, through contributions, through local=20= ordinance development, letters to the editor, water cooler talk, or=20 coming out to family and friends, NTAC needs you to help win the=20 challenges of 2005. What will we write in December 2005? Your efforts can help make it a better retrospective. Founded in 1999, NTAC - the National Transgender Advocacy Coalition - is a 501(c)(4) civil rights organization working to establish and maintain the right of all transgendered, intersexed, and gender-variant people to live and work without fear of violence or discrimination. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 23:35:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook In-Reply-To: <20050103.211157.20609.165151@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On a Mac the booklet plugin runs for a 30 day trial. You can deinstall & reinstall ad nauseum. An easier way, especially for chapbooks is just to design the master in signatures, no plugins or page shuffling needed. Or another way which Xexoxial used for years is to output individual pages in whatever program & physically paste-up the printouts of each page into corresponding signatures. If yr using a copier to print, this can produce very clean results. One of the other bonuses with InDesign is it interfaces nicely with Acrobat & you can generate the pdf ebook version of any design easily, mIEKAL On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 11:11 PM, T_Martin wrote: > I agree with the pen knife. but, i'd just as soon use MS Publisher. > InDesign is great, but it needs a plug in to make the chapbook work. > and that is more money. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 23:11:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: you're up! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Catherine Daly @ http://www.notellmotel.org -----Original Message----- From: Reb Livingston [mailto:reb@notellmotel.org] Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:13 PM To: Catherine Daly Subject: you're up! Catherine, It's your week! BTW, the site may be updating at odd times this week. When the calendar turned 2005 everything went kablewie. Our programmer has been working on it, but there are still a few more snags to be worked out. Reb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 02:52:06 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit head heart prick ????? ____ IIIIII 3:00...###....drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 01:32:34 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good on ya mate. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 6:35 PM Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook > On a Mac the booklet plugin runs for a 30 day trial. You can deinstall > & reinstall ad nauseum. An easier way, especially for chapbooks is > just to design the master in signatures, no plugins or page shuffling > needed. Or another way which Xexoxial used for years is to output > individual pages in whatever program & physically paste-up the > printouts of each page into corresponding signatures. If yr using a > copier to print, this can produce very clean results. > > One of the other bonuses with InDesign is it interfaces nicely with > Acrobat & you can generate the pdf ebook version of any design easily, > > mIEKAL > > On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 11:11 PM, T_Martin wrote: > > > I agree with the pen knife. but, i'd just as soon use MS Publisher. > > InDesign is great, but it needs a plug in to make the chapbook work. > > and that is more money. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 14:14:37 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I first read this, I thought of the 8 page chapbook made by 2 folds of a sheet and a single cut half across that's a chapbook too; and as some type has to be upside down, Miekel's solution is often the best and not just for that that aside I could never get on with MS Publisher; using it is worse than turning a double mattress with your hands in your pockets. MS Word or something similar will do it all. There are a number of free utilities around for putting 2 pages on to one; that helps because it saves having to work out column widths along with margins Presently, I am using a routine that came with the printer, HP Business Jet 1100 it's called here. Auto duplex which unfortunately does not allow one to modify the drying pause so very large type and graphics get smeared. Back to manual duplex. I bought HP because they don't break. It just broke. And I am dealing with HP employees dealing with Brain Tippex, an incurable condition which leaves the victim entirely happy and everyone they meet frustrated (Tippex is erasing fluid) The HP routine will take any number of pages and make a book, either as master or as one of a short run. One has to tamper with the margins to get the positioning right. Which is a pain because it is supposed to have been built by persons of intelligence; but once done the principle applies to all jobs. And one has to make sure that the page numbers are divisible by 4 or pad with blank pages - otherwise it goes ahead and makes the booklet anyway and runs out of material... It's good to have the basic pagination schematised eg a double page for folding will have 24 on the left and 1 on the right and that back on to a double page with 2 on the left and 23 on the right 24 / 1 2 / 23 22 / 3 4 / 21 etc Once you've got that sorted, you do whatever you want either mastering or printing directly depending on the flexibility of your hardware and software ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:16:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Zinc Bar Sunday 1/9 7pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ZINC BAR TALK/READING SERIES 2005 Sunday January 9th, 7-8.30pm MAIREAD BYRNE & JACK KIMBALL Zinc Bar 90 W. Houston St., corner of LaGuardia Pl. NY NY 10012 IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE YOU THERE! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:20:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Zinc Bar Sunday 1/9 7pm In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Jan 4, 2005, at 9:16 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > ZINC BAR TALK/READING SERIES 2005 > Sunday January 9th, 7-8.30pm > > MAIREAD BYRNE & JACK KIMBALL > > Zinc Bar > 90 W. Houston St., corner of LaGuardia Pl. > NY NY 10012 > > IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE YOU THERE! > > I'll be standing in the last row quietly eating popcorn. Or so I would lead you to believe. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:22:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: query: van newkirk incident(s) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi, this query is for a friend, Peter Werbe, whose piece for Detroit's weekly Metro Times is posted below. I'd like to find folks in BC who may know Van Newkirk, or anyone in Nova Scotia who knew him in the days of "root, branch, and mammal" (in some manner associated with the journal IO and, evntually, the press North Atlantic Books--but this is all unclear and of course those people are simply people who may have known him) And of course there is the famous incident at St. Mark's church, described in the piece here. Any help filling in any of this, or finding contacts who can, would be much appreciated. Please back-channel as I'm a web-based reader of poetics list these days. Best, Joel Old rebels never die, they, well. . .just stick up Toys 'R Us stores. Allen Van Newkirk, who played a seminal role in the 1960s radical and experimental cultural scene in Detroit, was arrested following a December 12 robbery and subsequent shoot-out with Mounties in a Vancouver, BC suburb. According to Constable Dave Babineau, media liaison for the Port Coquitlam, BC section of the Royal Mounted Canadian Police (RCMP), officers responded to a report of an armed hold-up at the suburban toy store by a lone male who drove off in a van. Following a short chase, the vehicle and a police car collided, and the 64-year-old Van Newkirk, exited from behind the wheel with gun blazing. Van Newkirk was wounded in an exchange of gunfire with police, and is charged with two counts of attempted murder, robbery and related offenses. Babineau described the wounds as "non-life threatening," and Jennifer Saltman, staff reporter for the twice weekly Coquitlam Now, said the defendant was walking under his own power at a December 28 Port Coquitlam Provincial Court hearing. Neither the toy store management nor Constable Babineau would officially release a dollar figure for the heist, but a store employee offered that it "was in the thousands." Many Detroiters remember Van Newkirk as a pistol-packing, motorcycle-riding, early advocate of Surrealist, Dadaist and Situationist ideas, who published broadside posters entitled, Guerrilla: Free Newspaper of the Streets, featuring huge headlines proclaiming such provocations as, "Poetry Demands Unemployment." John Sinclair, who now hosts an Amsterdam-based jazz and blues show available at johnsinclairradio.com, was a founder of the 1960s Artist Workshop and originally a co-editor with Van Newkirk of Guerrilla. He says, "The Surrealists were his big inspiration, and if sticking up Toys 'R Us isn't a surreal act, I don't know what is!" "Having once known Van Newkirk pretty well," he added, "I wonder what his message was? There has to be some subtext." Sinclair and Van Newkirk became roommates forty years ago in a Cass Corridor apartment when they were both attending Wayne State University in a time and place filled with new ideas about writing and culture in general. "We were both trying to figure out a way," says Sinclair, "to bridge the previous era with the emerging thing that had to do with reaching illiterate teen-age TV watchers and pop radio listeners with art and political content through the media of marijuana, rock & roll and LSD." The two of them, together with numerous others radical artists, poets, painters and musicians of the mid- to late-'60s, created such an amazing amount of poetry, publications, theatre, art, experimental jazz and innovative rock that it gave the Cass Corridor a world famous reputation for art and culture. Van Newkirk, who at an imposing 6'3", often made his opinions known by thundering down the aisle of radical gatherings denouncing proceedings as being insufficiently revolutionary. His most notorious act occurred in 1969, when, incensed by the appearance of Kenneth Koch, a mainstream poet at a normally alternative reading space, St. Marks Church, on New York City's Lower East Side, Van Newkirk ran toward the podium firing a pistol (filled with blanks, but unknown to the audience), yelling, "Death to bourgeois poets." Several confederates, including poet, author, and NPR commentator, Andrei Codrescu, threw copies of the latest Guerrilla into the rows of startled spectators. According to Codrescu, "Kenneth responded, without flinching, 'Why don't you just grow up?,' and goes on reading." "I was wondering what mischief Van Newkirk was into," Codrescu remarked upon hearing of his old collaborator's arrest. Van Newkirk also disrupted a 1969, Madison, Wis. conference convened by the 125 member Underground Press Syndicate, a federation of alternative newspapers, by, again, running down the aisle, without pistol on this occasion, yelling, "All media are lies." A collage he published in Detroit's underground paper, the Fifth Estate, denouncing the venerable MC5 rock band as a spectacularized commodity with only a revolutionary veneer, outraged the band and Sinclair, who had become their manager. A confrontation with the hot-tempered MC5 lead guitarist, Wayne Kramer, soured relationships between the former comrades. After several editions of his paper appeared, Van Newkirk abruptly left Detroit in 1970 to set up the Geographic Foundation of the North Atlantic, an early radical ecological center located in Antigonish, Nova Scotia and published broadsides and pamphlets under the name of root, branch, and mammal. He eventually was granted Canadian permanent resident status and was living in Surry, a Vancouver suburb, at the time of his arrest. Van Newkirk's old friends and colleagues say from the early '70s through the 1980s, his whereabouts and activities were mostly unknown except for an infrequent late night call or even less frequent visits to family members in the Detroit area. No one had heard from or about him in almost 15 years. Not surprisingly, he failed to turn up in town for the November Artist's Workshop fortieth anniversary celebration even though he had been on its board of directors in the '60s. Perhaps it was because of a lack of desire to cross the border since at his most recent court hearing it came to light that he was on the lam from assault charges in Penticton, BC. Previously, he had been convicted in Washington State for felony larceny in 1990 and disorderly conduct and theft in 1994. Van Newkirk's posters, which a generation ago sparked outrage and controversy, now are packed neatly in boxes at the Labadie Collection, the University of Michigan's famed archive of radical material, disturbed only by an occasional researcher, while the "free newspaper of the streets" is selling for $130 a copy at an upscale San Francisco gallery. But their author is still bad to the bone; an outlaw to the end. Peter Werbe, when not yelling at right-wing callers on Nightcall, his Sunday evening, WRIF talk show, writes occasionally for the Metro Times. Send comments to letters@metrotimes.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:23:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Zinc Bar Sunday 1/9 7pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Yeah sure. I've heard you eating popcorn and quiet it ain't. Mairead >>> dtv@MWT.NET 01/04/05 10:20 AM >>> On Jan 4, 2005, at 9:16 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > ZINC BAR TALK/READING SERIES 2005 > Sunday January 9th, 7-8.30pm > > MAIREAD BYRNE & JACK KIMBALL > > Zinc Bar > 90 W. Houston St., corner of LaGuardia Pl. > NY NY 10012 > > IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE YOU THERE! > > I'll be standing in the last row quietly eating popcorn. Or so I would lead you to believe. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:39:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: imposition scripts for chapbooks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i happened to notice discussions about making chapbooks, etc. from my recent experience, the best way to do chapbook production in Indesign is to use "imposition scripts" -- I've uploaded the free script to http://factoryschool.org/kuszai/Imposition_scripts_CS.sit this is for a mac, but the scripts (and even more options as far as i've heard) exist for windows i'm happy to help, but it's pretty simple. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:43:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: [TheBlackList] "Revolution" Speech by Bro. Jamal Hart MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT ¤º°°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°°º¤ø¤º°`¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ ^v^ ~~ TheBlackList.net Conversations: ~~ ^v^ The New "Negro World" http://www.TheBlackList.net So Now You Know...WHAT NOW? <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/36598.php REVOLUTION: Speech by Bro. Jamal Hart by Ytzhak • Tuesday January 04, 2005 at 06:57 AM montfu65@hotmail.com For too long, we have lived with the reality that the many misconceptions and pure deceptions of today's world that we live in is clearly against us, not for us. Fascism is the controlling party. ... The enemy's targets are Blacks, other people of color, and proletariats ... This, in turn, will inspire the youth and the elders to collaborate on this everyday overlooked revolution upon many misinformed people. When change begins, one's mind will accept true reality and see biasness, racism, police brutality, false imprisonment, oppression, abuse of authority, and the vindictiveness of this conniving legal system Submitted by: Sis. Monique Code ======================== REVOLUTION Speech by Bro. Jamal Hart Firstly, I would like to humbly greet everyone with the greetings As-Salaam Alaikum, Hotep, and Peace. One may think, Why Revolution? Before I enlighten the masses, allow me to give solidarity greetings to fellow freedom fighters, supporters, comrades and working class folks, and the masses during this holiday appeal. I sincerely thank the Partisan Defense Committee for all the endless support and needed indulgence in the complex matters they assisted in that were very detrimental on numerous occasions. I humbly thank all of them as well as the all other supporters and comrades that continue to support political prisoners on a consistent basis. For too long, we have lived with the reality that the many misconceptions and pure deceptions of today's world that we live in is clearly against us, not for us. Fascism is the controlling party. Unfortunately, it's underrated within the minds of everyday people. The enemy's targets are Blacks, other people of color, and proletariats like you, all of whom have been under capitalistic ruling for far too long. Comrades, the reason for this rude awakening of clear hypocrisy that has deviously and shrewdly been placed here for ethnic and racial division against the oppressed is the Government's ruse of depriving our natural birthrights and diminish our sense of struggle. To close our eyes and minds from revolution misguiding us to believe the struggle is over is what the ruling class would have you to believe. They want you to forget the rebellions of the past century. Forgetting comrades like Cinque of Amistad, George of Soledad, Dhoruba of the Panther 19, Black August, the MOVE 9 of Powelton Village, Red Summer, John Africa and the MOVE children of Osage Avenue, Chairman Fred Hampton and Lil' Bobby Hutton of the Black Panther Party, Malcolm, Nat Turner, Dedan Kimathi of Kenya and my father Mumia Abu-Jamal. All of these people have participated with many other comrades known and unknown to keep revolution alive among the people. This revolution was not just a bunch of speeches. It was about action, unity, devotion, and sincere dedication that rebels against a system designed to keep human beings used as human fuel even upon the eve of 2005. It acts upon and preys on the destruction and exploitation of labor and demise of Black people. We must mobilize and strategically construct positive as well as politically educated demonstrations throughout this country and worldwide for the poor and working class to unify coalitions, movements, and struggle as one body. This, in turn, will inspire the youth and the elders to collaborate on this everyday overlooked revolution upon many misinformed people. When change begins, one's mind will accept true reality and see biasness, racism, police brutality, false imprisonment, oppression, abuse of authority, and the vindictiveness of this conniving legal system. These capitalistic rulers collectively remain in love with their Confederate flag. The oppression of our people is the ruling class' position. The bloody symbol of racist terror and brutal slavery that prides the ruling class religiously shines through their Confederate flag they uphold. So to all of my fellow freedom fighters, supporters and comrades that live the struggle from day-to-day, turn up the heat and reach out further than our comfort zones. To become in opposition to the Patriot Act, we must allow the full outlook of political awareness and consciousness of a revolutionary perspective to become present within our households, places of religious practice, schools, jobs, social gatherings, and family reunions. The people must be clear that to not understand the concept and practice of revolution is like one reading and not comprehending. Therefore PDC family, we must continue to keep this revolution alive and well. We must feed it to the masses. The struggle will not be complete if we cannot forsee the triumph of revolution for our political prisoners, prisoners of war, and wrongfully convicted by this mendacious legal system that continues to wrecklessly disregard morality under the color of law for justice. We search for answers everyday within this misconceived world. Revolution is what will change this oppressed status of second class instantly by opposing this rogue system that maliciously disregards humanity, life, and freedom of the oppressed within this ploy. Comrades, don't allow this system to dupe you with this "they are for the people" propaganda. Consequently, we can not continue to ignore the deception the media imposes on us while the greedy fascist ruling class continues to invest within this rotten system. The media's mega resources have allowed them to mislead the miseducated and misinformed with mendacious defamation to fatten their pockets at our people's expense. Revolution is the crux; we must make this our goal and devote ourselves to it. This will unify us and take it to the next level. Through this, we can gain full vindication of all of our comrades who are wrongfully trapped behind enemy lines. Many of them have dedicated their lives to this struggle from day one. What energizes and validates the true outlook of Revolution is that all of us as supporters, comrades and revolutionaries across the globe contribute to the front lines of our struggle. Many of our fallen warriors placed their lives on the line for the cause of stopping this bogus and rogue unionism of a pernicious system. We are clear that they did not die in vain. The warriors still held in captivity such as Hugo Pinell, Sundiata Acoli, Ruchell Magee, Dr. Mutulu Shakur, and my father Mumia Abu-Jamal, whom by the way, still resides on death row in the Pennsylvania hellholes, will ultimately be freed by people who remain steadfast in solidarity. We must NOT give up hope. We will prevail and grow to new heights by enriching political education amongst the youth and informing the elders and the misfortunate. For those that come to this event today and remain indecisive, you must increase your level of understanding of the deep treachery of this decrepit system. I sincerely urge you to join this movement that supports a class war and the freedom of all political prisoners. See the potential in our youth of today for they are the new Huey Newton, Bobby Seale, Malcolm X, Jommo Kenyatta and Paul Robeson of today. They just need guidance and direction to display that natural God-given potential for greatness they have been blessed with. I, Jamal Hart, now reside within the Federal concentration camp known as FCI Ray Brook in Ray Brook, New York. Although I am still held captive behind enemy lines, I believed in the people, every last one of you, from the start. 8 years later, I still believe that the power of the people is immeasurable and unstoppable. We must show this racist Government that the working class is united in solidarity with the poor. People must resist this oppression of Black and other colonized people, racism as a whole, the Port Maritime Security Act and the Patriot Act which as most of you know, made COINTELPRO tactics legal. We adamantly demand our FREEDOM NOW! We are living in a time where the movement needs people to stand for what they believe is unjust. Unify and mobilize vigorously and don't give up on this struggle. This is revolution. We demand change and freedom for the oppressed. I refuse to compromise and I urge all of you to stand and resist the power of the ruling class, for they badly want our demise. To those FBI and CIA agents sitting in this room tonight, we know you're in here. We are not accepting any compromises nor will we believe our demonstrations are useless. We will continue this cause and fully support the Class War prisoners on all levels. Those of you who have not joined must do so today. We will prevail in triumph and expose these ploys of injustice that this disgusting system places upon us each and everyday. In closing, keep up the good work and we will be victorious in the end. Stop the frame-ups! Free Mumia! Abolish the Death Penalty! Free All Political Prisoners and Prisoners of War! Organize, mobilize, continue to network, support the cause, and most of all keep believing in Revolution. We must not stop until we are free! ~~~~~~~~ NOTE: Bro. Jamal Hart is a Panther cub, son of Mumia Abu-Jamal. Please show your love to him and offer your support!: Jamal Hart #50597-066 FCI Ray Brook P.O. Box 9002 Ray Brook, NY 12977 If you want to donate to his commissary, the best way would be via Western Union. This is the information you need to have on the form: Register Number: 50597-066 Inmate's Name: Jamal Hart City Code: FBOP State Code: DC. Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:49:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: POV: getting an education in jihad MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/36596.php >>POV: getting an education in jihad BEKAA VALLEY, Lebanon -- The handsome, 35-year-old teacher had many things to live for - a PhD, a steady job, a healthy salary... In the beginning, the schoolteacher had struggled to decide how he felt about the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq...."We worry about Iraq and about Palestine," ...the psychological resonance of the struggle, and the adulation and envy of the foreign jihadis, has been profound..."If a man stands just an hour with a weapon in his hand to fight jihad, it's better than being a preacher in Mecca for 100 years," the teacher said. "It's not about preaching. It's about actions." >>POV: getting an education in jihad ================================= http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-fg-fighters29dec29,1,6457341.story Getting an Education in Jihad By Megan K. Stack Times Staff Writer Infuriated by the U.S.-led 'crusade' in Iraq, a Lebanese teacher left his country and steady job intending to die for the insurgency. BEKAA VALLEY, Lebanon -- The handsome, 35-year-old teacher had many things to live for - a PhD, a steady job, a healthy salary - but still he decided to leave home, make his way to Syria and then sneak over the border into Iraq, intent on fighting Americans, even if it meant dying in a suicide attack. In the beginning, the schoolteacher had struggled to decide how he felt about the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. It spelled humiliation and sorrow to Arabs. But as an Arab who had tasted the despair of despotism, he had a small spot of hope. "At first, I thought, 'OK, the Americans want to bring democracy to the region,' " he said. That was before he turned on the television to the grainy images of prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib. "The human triangle. The woman dragging the man by the leash," said the teacher, a broad man with a clipped beard and intense gaze. "These images affected me deeply. The shame the Americans brought. I was fervently monitoring the TV images, not so much the words as the pictures." He remembered that President Bush called the war on terrorism a "crusade." He thought about American helicopters being used by the Israeli army to attack Palestinians. And he decided that sitting impotently in Lebanon wasn't enough. Over dates and sweet coffee in a middle-class living room here, he recently spoke in measured tones about his fervor to fight in behalf of Muslims against U.S. troops - and his decision to leave the battle in Iraq to make his way home again. The story of the teacher, who spoke on the condition that neither he nor his hometown be named, reflects the oft-stated notion that the war in Iraq has opened a regional Pandora's box of jihad. In a region where so many people feel helpless before repressive governments and U.S. policy, the road to Iraq has become a trail of independence in the minds of some men, a way for young Muslims to come of age and to join the battles they see on television. His journey began here, in a high valley that is so flat it looks like it was ironed, stretching like a gritty carpet between the mountains of southern Lebanon, hard against the Syrian border. Unemployment is rife and religious zeal intense. It is a hardscrabble place where international worries and local woes are intimately intertwined. A recent Friday sermon called for martyr's blood to avenge the Iraqi insurgent shot dead on the floor of a mosque by a U.S. Marine. "Every day we are seeing these things and hearing the same word: Fallouja," the preacher cried. "What are we supposed to tell our men? To put down their weapons? To surrender? If we do, who's going to avenge their blood and tears?" Then the sermon shifted seamlessly; the preacher tried to drum up donations to heat the schools. "We worry about Iraq and about Palestine," he said, "but it's getting cold here." This ancient strip of farms has a history of defiance, and it has sent its share of men to join the insurgency in Iraq. Some made their way back home. Others have been commemorated at funerals without corpses after friends called from Iraq to report their deaths. Martyrdom doesn't come cheap. Foreign fighters are expected to pay their own way, from smugglers' fees to meals. Many of the would-be mujahedin, or holy warriors, simply can't afford to go, said Shaaban Ajani, the mayor of a town in the Bekaa called Majdal Anjar. Within Iraq, there is broad consensus that foreign fighters form only a small band of the insurgency roiling the country. Nevertheless, in neighboring countries the psychological resonance of the struggle, and the adulation and envy of the foreign jihadis, has been profound. "If a man stands just an hour with a weapon in his hand to fight jihad, it's better than being a preacher in Mecca for 100 years," the teacher said. "It's not about preaching. It's about actions." Ajani, the mayor, doesn't disguise the pride in his voice when he tells a visitor that two men from his town were killed fighting in Iraq. "It is noble, and it's a religious duty," he said. In his town, tensions between a frustrated people and their national government exploded this fall. Lebanese agents swept through the Bekaa, carrying out a sting operation on what was described as an Al Qaeda cell. Ten people were arrested. One, a Majdal Anjar resident named Ismail Mohammed Khalil, 32, died in custody shortly after his arrest. The government said he'd suffered a heart attack. Witnesses said his body came home covered with cigarette burns, bruises and scorch marks left by electrical shocks. In the Bekaa, Khalil is remembered as a mild-mannered man who sold used cellphones to support his five children. After his body was returned, hundreds of men took to the streets and rioted. The suspect's real crime, his neighbors and family say, was sympathy for the mujahedin who trekked to Iraq - and his fervent hope that he could someday afford to join their ranks. "America has declared war against the Sunni people," said the mufti of the Bekaa, Khalil Mais. "Are Muslims forbidden to defend themselves? Jihad is the defense of country and of honor. How can you watch television every night and not go?" It was that conviction that inspired the schoolteacher to make his way to Iraq. After he decided to go, he waited for a break in classes. It was a quick bus ride to Syria. He set off in the spring with a shortwave radio, a small bundle of clothes and some cash. The teacher had collected $3,500 for his trip. It was all the money he'd saved from his salary, and he feared that it wouldn't be enough to keep him going for what he expected would be a long period of fighting. He had a local connection, a friend from the Bekaa who had joined foreign fighters in Iraq and had agreed to vouch for him. He remembers standing, on a cold spring night, on the line between Syria and Iraq. Four border-jumpers before him had been caught by Syrian troops. The smuggler he'd hired to ferry him to Baghdad was edgy. They would hike through the desert rather than chance the roads. It was a starless night, the teacher recalls, and he hadn't expected the desert to be so cold. Stray dogs roamed the sands; American helicopters thrummed overhead. He didn't let his guide rest or smoke cigarettes for fear of getting caught. The schoolteacher walked all night through the Iraqi desert until he reached the outskirts of a small town. The guide walked toward the lights and fetched a truck while the teacher waited in the wastelands. Then they drove into Baghdad to meet a contact beneath a downtown bridge. He was taken to a villa crowded with dozens of men from Yemen, Libya, Algeria, Syria and a host of other Arab countries. They'd order out for food, and when it arrived, they'd argue over who would pay. "It was a very nice atmosphere. Nobody wanted to take anything; everybody wanted to give," the teacher said. "If there was a household chore to be done, we fought over it." Most of the men seemed well-educated, and they didn't lack for cash. Some of them were veterans of the battle against U.S. Special Forces and their Afghan allies in Tora Bora, Afghanistan. At night, they'd sit in the villa, which was furnished with only a handful of chairs, and talk about the sort of government that the Islamic people would install once they kicked out the Americans. After about eight days, it was the teacher's turn to move. They took him to Fallouja in a battered car. He believed the time for his suicide mission was near, but he ended up in another house, surrounded by Saudis - mostly Salafists, adherents of the most rigorous school of Islamic thought - who were waiting eagerly for their own suicide missions. The men were organized into platoons, the teacher said, with every 50 or so foot soldiers under the guidance of a commander. "Many of the guys in the house had very limited military training," he said. "But it doesn't take much military training to get in the car and blow yourself up." The teacher spoke reverently of Jordanian-born militant Abu Musab Zarqawi, who has been tied to numerous beheadings and other deadly attacks in Iraq. He bragged that he spent a night with a Zarqawi aide who has since been killed and that he caught a glimpse inside a spartan bedroom occupied by Zarqawi. Though he didn't see the militant leader, he described the Jordanian kaffiyeh, or headdress, he left behind. After a week of waiting around in Fallouja, the teacher said, he began to feel guilty. It wasn't that he became frightened, but the dreams he'd had in Lebanon didn't match the mundane reality in Iraq. He felt more like an interloper than a savior. "I realized I was staying in somebody's house, and the owners were moving from place to place to make room for us," he said. "Then I realized they didn't need us, and in fact we were sort of hampering the Iraqis." The foreigners' accents made them a security threat, and their makeshift dormitories drew U.S. bombs to residential neighborhoods. Iraqi collaborators with the U.S.-led forces would throw compact discs onto rooftops to mark the homes where the mujahedin were sleeping for U.S. warplanes, the teacher said. "We were a burden, and the Iraqis could take up the battle," the teacher said. "I came to realize that they didn't need people, they needed money much more than people. I realized I'd be of greater use if I financially supported them." He made his way back through the desert under a moon that was nearly full. American patrols swooped overhead. At the border, he said, he spent $200 bribing Syrian officials to let him pass. Now he is home, among friends envious of his adventure. He has occasional regrets about returning to Lebanon. Other men from the Bekaa also have come home, community leaders said. But the humiliation that drove them into the desert continues to fester, given in regular doses by the evening news. "When I saw the man shot in the mosque, I wanted to go back," the teacher said with a shrug. "They say it's a war crime. I think the whole war is a war crime." Special correspondent Rania Abouzeid in the Bekaa Valley contributed to this report. 2004, The Los Angeles Times http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-fg-fighters29dec29,1,6457341.story ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:58:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: San Diego Poetry Guild Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For any following the S.D.P.G. project, now two years old, I've posted an update to the blog: http://sdpg.blogspot.com/2005/01/year-endbegin-update.html bill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:33:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: some shameless promotion In-Reply-To: <200501040501.j0451PUM017234@a.mx.sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable some shameless promotion. in my absence a couple things got published on line. please check them out. thank you kari 2 poems @ Slingshot 5 http://www.slingshotmagazine.org/issue5/html/contents5.html @ tin lustre mobile /=A9 poeticinhalation.com excerpt from: succubus in my pocket-fiction (PDF) http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_creativewriting.html= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 20:26:56 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Zinc Bar Sunday 1/9 7pm In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll be in the third row taking notes, glasses on - I usually don't burp in public or chew as mIEKAL aND does... Will join you at the end for a cheers, and mIEKAL aND to steal some popcorn Anny On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:23:33 -0500, Mairead Byrne wrote: > Yeah sure. I've heard you eating popcorn and quiet it ain't. > Mairead > > >>> dtv@MWT.NET 01/04/05 10:20 AM >>> > On Jan 4, 2005, at 9:16 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > > > ZINC BAR TALK/READING SERIES 2005 > > Sunday January 9th, 7-8.30pm > > > > MAIREAD BYRNE & JACK KIMBALL > > > > Zinc Bar > > 90 W. Houston St., corner of LaGuardia Pl. > > NY NY 10012 > > > > IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE YOU THERE! > > > > > > I'll be standing in the last row quietly eating popcorn. Or so I would > lead you to believe. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:19:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable DEAR FRIENDS: A big thank-you to all who came, saw, experienced, read, performed, volunteered and/or donated to the New Year=B9s Marathon Reading this past Saturday=8Bin all capacities=8Bwe couldn=B9t do it without you. We had = a great time, made some $$, and are looking forward to a bright 2005... And if you lost a pair of glasses or a notebook with a picture of NYC on th= e cover, let us know, =8Ccause they=B9re here in the office! Cheers, The Poetry Project Wednesday, January 5, 8:00 pm Luis Francia & Carol Szamatowicz Poet, nonfiction writer, and critic, Luis H. Francia is the author of the semi-autobiographical Eye of the Fish: A Personal Archipelago, winner of th= e 2002 PEN Center Open Book and the 2002 Asian American Writers Workshop literary awards. His books of poetry include Her Beauty Likes Me Well (with David Friedman) and The Arctic Archipelago and Other Poems, and he is also the author of a collection of reviews and essays, Memories of Overdevelopment. He edited Brown River, White Ocean: A Twentieth Century Anthology of Philippine Literature in English; Flippin=B9: Filipinos on America (with Eric Gamalinda as co-editor); and, with Angel Velasco Shaw, Vestiges of War: The Philippine-American War and the Aftermath of an Imperial Dream, 1899-1999. Carol Szamatowicz is the author of Cats & Dogs, Zoop, and Reticular Pop-Ups. She teaches pre-school in a West Village Elementary School.=20 **On January 22, at 1 pm, we will be having a memorial service for beloved, longtime friend and sound technician John Fisk, who passed away in recent weeks. The memorial will be held in the Parish Hall. ** The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:27:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook In-Reply-To: <41DA2869.8020705@natisp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Am I the only one who still prefers Quark XPress? Its earliest iterations had a nifty Easter egg in the form of a little Martian who could be summoned to come and delete the item you wanted removed by blasting it with a ray gun. Geez, I never thought I'd be nostalgic for the ray gun era. Gwyn --- Even while I'm writing, I am listening for crows. -- Louise Erdrich ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:52:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: [Fwd: Michael Rothenberg update] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Michael Rothenberg update Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 18:34:37 -0500 From: fish drum Inc To: --Hi All, Happy New Year. Michael's family has moved to what will be their temporary address in California, probably for this year. He is in the new place with Nancy and Cosmos for the time being, then heading back to Florida as things get worked out. The temporary address is: 200 Bonita Ave Pacifica CA 94044 For those who've offered books for the library, they can be sent to the address above. Some of Michael's many poet friends are generously sending their own available works, signed. I think that's a beautiful idea. Best, Suzi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:46:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Michael Rothenberg from Suzi Winson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Happy New Year. Michael's family has moved to what will be their temporary address in California, probably for this year. He is in the new place with Nancy and Cosmos for the time being, then heading back to Florida as things get worked out. The temporary address is: 200 Bonita Ave Pacifica CA 94044 For those who've offered books for the library, they can be sent to the address above. Some of Michael's many poet friends are generously sending their own available works, signed. I think that's a beautiful idea. Best, Suzi *** Suzi Winson fishdrum@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:43:24 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: query: van newkirk incident(s) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Van Newkirk sounds a bit of a worry - shooting blanks at Kenneth Koch -Koch was heeled I believe, didn't lack for the doh re me, could toss the jingle around - but was he so mainstream? Is Van New Kirk a kind of Canadian Burroughs? Or a Craven........The stuff of poetic legends.... His posters etc one day will turn up on "The Roadshow" ....!! Is he hiding out with Amiri Baraka? He's not a CIA operative- and Agent Provocateur? No? Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Kuszai" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:22 AM Subject: query: van newkirk incident(s) > Hi, this query is for a friend, Peter Werbe, whose piece for > Detroit's weekly Metro Times is posted below. I'd like to find folks > in BC who may know Van Newkirk, or anyone in Nova Scotia who knew him > in the days of "root, branch, and mammal" (in some manner associated > with the journal IO and, evntually, the press North Atlantic > Books--but this is all unclear and of course those people are simply > people who may have known him) And of course there is the famous > incident at St. Mark's church, described in the piece here. > > Any help filling in any of this, or finding contacts who can, would > be much appreciated. > > Please back-channel as I'm a web-based reader of poetics list these days. > > Best, > > Joel > > > > > > > > > Old rebels never die, they, well. . .just stick up Toys 'R Us stores. > Allen Van Newkirk, who played a seminal role in the 1960s radical and > experimental cultural scene in Detroit, was arrested following a > December 12 robbery and subsequent shoot-out with Mounties in a > Vancouver, BC suburb. > According to Constable Dave Babineau, media liaison for the Port > Coquitlam, BC section of the Royal Mounted Canadian Police (RCMP), > officers responded to a report of an armed hold-up at the suburban > toy store by a lone male who drove off in a van. Following a short > chase, the vehicle and a police car collided, and the 64-year-old Van > Newkirk, exited from behind the wheel with gun blazing. > Van Newkirk was wounded in an exchange of gunfire with police, and is > charged with two counts of attempted murder, robbery and related > offenses. Babineau described the wounds as "non-life threatening," > and Jennifer Saltman, staff reporter for the twice weekly Coquitlam > Now, said the defendant was walking under his own power at a December > 28 Port Coquitlam Provincial Court hearing. > Neither the toy store management nor Constable Babineau would > officially release a dollar figure for the heist, but a store > employee offered that it "was in the thousands." > Many Detroiters remember Van Newkirk as a pistol-packing, > motorcycle-riding, early advocate of Surrealist, Dadaist and > Situationist ideas, who published broadside posters entitled, > Guerrilla: Free Newspaper of the Streets, featuring huge headlines > proclaiming such provocations as, "Poetry Demands Unemployment." > John Sinclair, who now hosts an Amsterdam-based jazz and blues show > available at johnsinclairradio.com, was a founder of the 1960s Artist > Workshop and originally a co-editor with Van Newkirk of Guerrilla. He > says, "The Surrealists were his big inspiration, and if sticking up > Toys 'R Us isn't a surreal act, I don't know what is!" > "Having once known Van Newkirk pretty well," he added, "I wonder what > his message was? There has to be some subtext." > Sinclair and Van Newkirk became roommates forty years ago in a Cass > Corridor apartment when they were both attending Wayne State > University in a time and place filled with new ideas about writing > and culture in general. "We were both trying to figure out a way," > says Sinclair, "to bridge the previous era with the emerging thing > that had to do with reaching illiterate teen-age TV watchers and pop > radio listeners with art and political content through the media of > marijuana, rock & roll and LSD." The two of them, together with > numerous others radical artists, poets, painters and musicians of the > mid- to late-'60s, created such an amazing amount of poetry, > publications, theatre, art, experimental jazz and innovative rock > that it gave the Cass Corridor a world famous reputation for art and > culture. > Van Newkirk, who at an imposing 6'3", often made his opinions known > by thundering down the aisle of radical gatherings denouncing > proceedings as being insufficiently revolutionary. His most notorious > act occurred in 1969, when, incensed by the appearance of Kenneth > Koch, a mainstream poet at a normally alternative reading space, St. > Marks Church, on New York City's Lower East Side, Van Newkirk ran > toward the podium firing a pistol (filled with blanks, but unknown to > the audience), yelling, "Death to bourgeois poets." > Several confederates, including poet, author, and NPR commentator, > Andrei Codrescu, threw copies of the latest Guerrilla into the rows > of startled spectators. According to Codrescu, "Kenneth responded, > without flinching, 'Why don't you just grow up?,' and goes on > reading." > "I was wondering what mischief Van Newkirk was into," Codrescu > remarked upon hearing of his old collaborator's arrest. > Van Newkirk also disrupted a 1969, Madison, Wis. conference convened > by the 125 member Underground Press Syndicate, a federation of > alternative newspapers, by, again, running down the aisle, without > pistol on this occasion, yelling, "All media are lies." > A collage he published in Detroit's underground paper, the Fifth > Estate, denouncing the venerable MC5 rock band as a spectacularized > commodity with only a revolutionary veneer, outraged the band and > Sinclair, who had become their manager. A confrontation with the > hot-tempered MC5 lead guitarist, Wayne Kramer, soured relationships > between the former comrades. > After several editions of his paper appeared, Van Newkirk abruptly > left Detroit in 1970 to set up the Geographic Foundation of the North > Atlantic, an early radical ecological center located in Antigonish, > Nova Scotia and published broadsides and pamphlets under the name of > root, branch, and mammal. He eventually was granted Canadian > permanent resident status and was living in Surry, a Vancouver > suburb, at the time of his arrest. > Van Newkirk's old friends and colleagues say from the early '70s > through the 1980s, his whereabouts and activities were mostly unknown > except for an infrequent late night call or even less frequent visits > to family members in the Detroit area. No one had heard from or about > him in almost 15 years. > Not surprisingly, he failed to turn up in town for the November > Artist's Workshop fortieth anniversary celebration even though he had > been on its board of directors in the '60s. Perhaps it was because of > a lack of desire to cross the border since at his most recent court > hearing it came to light that he was on the lam from assault charges > in Penticton, BC. Previously, he had been convicted in Washington > State for felony larceny in 1990 and disorderly conduct and theft in > 1994. > Van Newkirk's posters, which a generation ago sparked outrage and > controversy, now are packed neatly in boxes at the Labadie > Collection, the University of Michigan's famed archive of radical > material, disturbed only by an occasional researcher, while the "free > newspaper of the streets" is selling for $130 a copy at an upscale > San Francisco gallery. > But their author is still bad to the bone; an outlaw to the end. > > Peter Werbe, when not yelling at right-wing callers on Nightcall, his > Sunday evening, WRIF talk show, writes occasionally for the Metro > Times. Send comments to letters@metrotimes.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 20:07:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Sex-time with Christ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sex-time with Christ The Transformation and Freedom of the Natives #0309 'Marla' 34c Dirty Blonde 120lbs - Available Jan 2-Jan 7 & Jan 10-Jan 15 shall guarantee Your teeth. - Your dripping sex is blasphemy unto the Lord. - Consider the next ointment. Your hands shall touch in truth and not in false demand. I Consider the following again, Your #0309 'Marla' 34c Dirty Blonde 120lbs - Available Jan 2-Jan 7 & Jan 10-Jan 15 ... dripping cock sinks me beneath Your dripping sex! 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Christ only special at that contract-holograph with ideogrammatic intervals. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 20:11:04 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Vankirk, a cautionary tale or 1040 blues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We can only hope that the financially impoverished among us don't follow his example, no matter how tempting. He seemed a revolutionary rather than a rebel within Camus' definition, more concerned with artistic expression and elusive justice rather than promoting lasting (r)evolution. The act of thievery against ToysRus is a great social message, but the life taking potential of it definitely crosses a line. But whose to say really? And as Kenneth Pachen said: "It's always because we love that we are rebellious; it takes a great deal of love to give a damn one way or another what happens from now on: I still do....The function of the artist is to express love. What most people fail to understand is not the artist's work but his essential unworldliness in wanting to give love." I know that love isn't enough, and who really knows besides the artist whether his expression is love or not. Sometimes the futility of our lives seems so ridiculous all we can do is express it. Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:20:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: Introduction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a new member to the list I thought I'd send a note of introduction. I= 've previously been active on and off on the british poets and poetryetc list= s, and I recognize a number of names from those forums on this list. Informa= tion about my literary background can be found at the url given in the signatu= re below. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:21:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: Poem: Children with guns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Children with guns In the church they worship spiders, on T.V. Christ with a neat goatee foretells the rain. Men drunk on anger oil their blood machines, women ingest the pennies of their dreams, and children with guns dance howling on the entrails of their brothers. At the Union Hall they're slurping poison soup. The flesh rots from their faces. "Who are you?" they ask each others' mirrors. Men scream at machines in isolation, women can't catch their breath, and children with guns take aim at the morning. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 20:53:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: Boog City 21 Now Available In-Reply-To: <20041208233350.33555.qmail@web50401.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 12/8/04 6:33 PM, Robert Corbett at robertmc00@YAHOO.COM wrote: > David, > > How does in one Seattle (which is doing it's damnedest to feel like New York, > weatherwise) get copies of Boog City? > > Robert hey robert, sorry for the delay in my reply. the best bet is a postpaid envelope big enough to fit 8" x 10.75" (as 1/4 folded) copies of the paper. so probably an 11" x 14" one would work. and a check payable to boog city for as many different issues, or multiple copies of an issue, you desire. when i listed issues for sale on poetics 18 months ago, i said 7 for $20 ppd. As of now there are 21 issues out (all of which i can detail for you what's inside of them). Let me know how many you might like and i can tell you how much postage to put on and what i'd charge you for them. hope this finds you well. as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:18:31 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hands down the sexiest poem of 2004 is "Girly Man" by Charles Bernstein and I don't just mean the poem but the reading of the poem as well if there were separate awards for poem and reading of poem Bernstein and his poem would win both when reading the poem at the MLA reading in Philadelphia he dedicated its reading to the memories of Gil Ott and Jackson Mac Low in New York at the Poetry Project's New Year reading he dedicated the reading to Jackson Mac Low both times, as a listener, I dedicated my ears to let it be heard and told to the living, everywhere if Bernstein never inspired you ever before you would not be able to say so after hearing and I wish (like all wishing idiots) that I could have had the MANY fools who know nothing about Language Poetry but claim to know it well and claim to hate it---I wish they could have heard what I heard talking this evening with my friend Matt McGoldrick, he and I agreed that the reading in Philadelphia had much more punch and excitement but 2004 was the sexy year for The Girly Man thank you Mr. Bernstein CAConrad http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:28:13 -0500 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 In-Reply-To: <77.3c1deb61.2f0cc497@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can you post the poem? Where can we find it if not? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Craig Allen Conrad Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:19 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 hands down the sexiest poem of 2004 is "Girly Man" by Charles Bernstein and I don't just mean the poem but the reading of the poem as well if there were separate awards for poem and reading of poem Bernstein and his poem would win both when reading the poem at the MLA reading in Philadelphia he dedicated its reading to the memories of Gil Ott and Jackson Mac Low in New York at the Poetry Project's New Year reading he dedicated the reading to Jackson Mac Low both times, as a listener, I dedicated my ears to let it be heard and told to the living, everywhere if Bernstein never inspired you ever before you would not be able to say so after hearing and I wish (like all wishing idiots) that I could have had the MANY fools who know nothing about Language Poetry but claim to know it well and claim to hate it---I wish they could have heard what I heard talking this evening with my friend Matt McGoldrick, he and I agreed that the reading in Philadelphia had much more punch and excitement but 2004 was the sexy year for The Girly Man thank you Mr. Bernstein CAConrad http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:34:33 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder if it's been posted on someone's blog? Although I'm pretty certain that someone had posted it to this listserv back in August or September. Or maybe someone had sent it to me and I just thought that I had seen it posted here. To be honest, I had never forgotten reading it, because it is the sort of inspiring poem you don't/won't forget, HOWEVER, hearing it, and I mean hearing it Bernstein- style reading, well, you're marked, permanently. Has anyone else out there heard the poet read his poem who would agree? Even if you have heard and disagree, well, that's fine, but it won't change my opinion. CAConrad http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:00:28 -0500 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 In-Reply-To: <193.36732793.2f0cc859@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's on Milk Mag: http://www.milkmag.org/CHBERNSTEIN6.html Enjoy! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:38:36 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As long as you save one copy of the final finished product it does not not matter what computer program it was created on as the publication can be scanned & re-created. Always save one final copy. Trying to open Word 20 years from now will be the same as trying to recover material on 51/4 floppy Apple II C files today. Audio is worse, you need to press a record on virgin vinyl to be safe. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:42:37 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Zinc Bar Sunday 1/9 7pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mairead-- I guess you weren't told. I will be substituting for Jack but reading his poems. See you there-- Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 02:06:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wow that's a bit much tho when i first heard him read it at bpc he said he wrote it for his son and dedicated it to him -- which is i believe it's origins - hey c.a. what's with the radio? i've heard the poem read now 3 or 4 times prefer bricklayer and another worker pome i heard him read recently tho the name escapes me and a fine straight foward anti-war pome i heard him read with his daughter at bpc last year anchor age bond age salv age garb age drain age ice age space age stone age steer age ear ache front age hermit age mile age yard age jazz age cleav age cover age cab age hard edge killer line age mile age new age opera rav age post age port age quan tums ramp age sav age ton age us age vis age wind mill x - age. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 02:13:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joshua Beckman Steven Dalachinsky reading Wednesday, January 26, 2005 at 8 pm The Poetry Project St. Mark's Church 131 East 10th St. ( at 2nd Ave.) Manhattan for info call the project or call 1212-925-5256 poets will be reading new and recent works ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:26:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Paul Green: 'The Terminal Poet' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is an experience for you that i enjoyed immensely. At http://greatworks.org.uk/poems/ttp1.html and http://greatworks.org.uk/poems/ttp.html you will find the script of Paul Green's (Britain) radio play 'The Terminal Poet'. The synopsis: "Poet Charles Kenning was once a darling of the literary world. Now a drink-sodden wreck, he's holed up in an inner city high-rise, unaware that agents of an American think-tank are monitoring his squalor. For both the Helicon Foundation and the British Cabinet have a use for him in their hi-tech struggle against urban anarchy and the strange powers of the Quantum Slut Crew. . ." The script also contains some mp3 links. I suggest you click on them while reading that part of the script. Paul Green has been at it for a long time. Here's a piece of his from 1971 called 'The Gestalt Bunker' which is relevant today: http://www.culturecourt.com/Audio/PG/DNA/PG-gestalt.mp3 (6:41). It's from a poet's point of view also, a poet holed-up at the end of whatever we're at the end of in his 'gestalt bunker', but in 1971. A related piece, again from 1971, is called 'Directions to the Dead End': http://www.culturecourt.com/Audio/PG/DNA/PG-deadend.mp3 (6:49). This is a post-apocalyptic poem. All these pieces might be considered 'nihilistic'. Yet i find them entertaining and not nihilistic in the sense that they find their way to liveliness and poetry. They are exciting. They create beginnings. I find myself going back to 'Gestalt Bunker' and 'Directions to the Dead End' from time to time. I think after you hear those two pieces you read the script of 'The Terminal Poet' differently. You have a sense of Green. It may give you a deeper sense of Green to know he also runs a literary press called Spectacular Diseases. A catchy name, certainly. I found the reading experience of 'The Terminal Poet' gripping, and have read it several times by now. ja ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 04:07:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: sward MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed sward most of the jellies and slimemolds are from this area coral fungi as well, as well as slimes, rots some people entered this space forever they found paths behind anything they might think about and sooner than later the thoughts also stop the people don't know that ( about the thoughts stopping ) to them it's just eternal slowness they might realize that but it wouldn't matter i can say that i still remember the paths and shuffling life shuffles there are polypores as well of all sorts and hawks other things even less visible they have forgotten why they are there and the world is very calm http://www.asondheim.org/sward.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/swardd.jpg _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 05:14:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Fw: MINISTRY TRAINING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-41DBBDF90F0A=======" --=======AVGMAIL-41DBBDF90F0A======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: How would you like to be called REVEREND?=20 Become a legally ordained minister within 48 hours=20 As a minister, you will be authorized to perform the rites and = ceremonies of the church! Perform Weddings, Funerals, and Perform Baptisms Forgiveness of = Sins and Visit Correctional Facilities Want to open a church?=20 Check out Ministry in a Box =20 Press here to find out how =20 And--and--do you eat people? To be sure, when we can get themThe weight = on Rob's shoulders was not so great as he had feared, the traveling = machine seeming to give a certain lightness and buoyancy to everything = that came into contact with its wearer=20 We included in our review a small subset of trials that assessed the = value of addition of an aminoglycoside in Gram positive infections=20 po box in link above and you can say no thank you for future=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/04 --=======AVGMAIL-41DBBDF90F0A======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/04 --=======AVGMAIL-41DBBDF90F0A=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:21:15 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're absolutely right. Nevertheless, it is usually possible to keep updating as one goes. I started word-processing around 1982; and, while most of those files have become irrelevant to me, I still have material from that era, some of it on 8 inch discs, 51/4 and 3 inch; and from a variety of software It requires organisation, which can be a problem for me! but it can be done; and it is worth doing I just OCR scanned a publication which had been ink-duplicated in the 70s (Eric Mottram's TOWARDS DESIGN IN POETRY) and *yearned for a word-processed copy. Obviously, the ink duplication was the major factor there; but even with a good original, scanning takes a while - much better, if one can, to upgrade the files. It can be done in stages on rainy days. L -----Original Message----- From: David Baratier To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 05 January 2005 05:29 Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook >Always save one final copy. Trying to open Word 20 years from now >will be the same as trying to recover material on 51/4 floppy Apple II C >files today. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 05:28:02 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hajj mo mntn black rock white dreams dawn...the journ....drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:19:47 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Introduction In-Reply-To: <424JaDTkj7664S07.1104888036@uwdvg017.cms.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jon, very happy you made it here! Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admirers. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:20:36 -0800, Jon Corelis wrote: > As a new member to the list I thought I'd send a note of introduction. I've > previously been active on and off on the british poets and poetryetc lists, > and I recognize a number of names from those forums on this list. Information > about my literary background can be found at the url given in the signature > below. > > ===================================== > Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org > > www.geocities.com/joncpoetics > ===================================== > > ____________________________________________________________________ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 07:02:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: SEXIEST poem of 2004 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Bernstein's "The Ballad of the Girlie Man" in milk magazine, volume six http://www.milkmag.org/CHBERNSTEIN6.html Best, Larry Sawyer, editor milk magazine www.milkmag.org _____________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:28:13 -0500 From: amy king Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 Can you post the poem? Where can we find it if not? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Craig Allen Conrad Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:19 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 hands down the sexiest poem of 2004 is "Girly Man" by Charles Bernstein and I don't just mean the poem but the reading of the poem as well if there were separate awards for poem and reading of poem Bernstein and his poem would win both when reading the poem at the MLA reading in Philadelphia he dedicated its reading to the memories of Gil Ott and Jackson Mac Low in New York at the Poetry Project's New Year reading he dedicated the reading to Jackson Mac Low both times, as a listener, I dedicated my ears to let it be heard and told to the living, everywhere if Bernstein never inspired you ever before you would not be able to say so after hearing and I wish (like all wishing idiots) that I could have had the MANY fools who know nothing about Language Poetry but claim to know it well and claim to hate it---I wish they could have heard what I heard talking this evening with my friend Matt McGoldrick, he and I agreed that the reading in Philadelphia had much more punch and excitement but 2004 was the sexy year for The Girly Man thank you Mr. Bernstein CAConrad http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 02:22:17 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone in reference to Bernstein's "sexy" poem was lamenting that people claim to understand language poetry but they don't really and so on, or they hate it and shouldn't -that maybe: but here are some thoughts on language poetry and some of the Language poets - There is no question that Charles Bernstein is a brilliant poet - I recall studying his poem that started: On a broad plane on a universe of anterooms, making signals in the dark, you fall down on your waistband & carrying your own plate, a last serving, set out for another glimpse of a gaze. In a room Even in that short start to "Matters of Policy" ( a book that has a kind of political subtext and other things going on.) - there is a lot to think about - the "cosmicness" is undercut shortly as the poem progresses but there are already "references ", puns, multiplex meanings etc - eg "waist band" might be a code for "The Waste Land", 'ante' may be a pun (for anti) .The "gaze" has smooth to do with Baudrillard -haven't read anything by him but the term "the gaze - supposedly from an idea of Baudrillard's - is very much used in poetics discussions these days...). The title is multiplex in meaning or at least in its stance, its connotations - other poems by Bernstein - in the book the poem was in -had fragmented sentences (it seems possible to connect the fragments sometimes - but it becomes like a complex sematic jig saw puzzle that is perhaps - is hopefully - unsolvable: (the poetic tactic against "clarity" or "transparency") and there some fascinating insights, and ideas - so I was very interested and still am in what the language poets (and their descendents and fellow travellers) -if they can be put in any "box" - were (are) doing. I 'introduced' some of my younger friends to "language poetry" and my friend Scott Hamilton took a great interest in Coolidge and the poem that goes "trilobites trilobite" (in "In the American Tree") and so on and the discussion on the "New Sentence" by Silliman (backgrounded by concepts from Stein etc) - I was very keen on Ron Silliman's work such as "Tjanting" "Paradise" and others - and also we liked the critical writing of erloff -in fact Scott got into reading Wittgenstein from reading "Wittgenstein's Ladder" by Perloff. We also found Antin's "talk poems" very interesting as an experience and a method - BUT In 2001 it seemed that Perloff's support of the invasion of Afghanistan (to make sure that America wasn't destroyed and then we wouldn't have any culture in the US to talk about: that is kill the Arabs before they destroy the greatland of poetry -war for poetry seemed to be her idea...) and some of Antin's responses were worrying - he talked of (or seemed to be talking of) exterminating the Arabs - made some remarks that they were "rats' to be got rid of and so on (I'm feel sure he made such remarks but it was some time ago, the detaisl may be quite wrong ... but I'm certain that was the tenor of some of the ideas expressed by these leading language poets) - and that was 2001 and not long after S/11 and everyone was a bit crazy - I know it affected me here even in New Zealand: in fact it kind of re-politicised me. Scott moved toward Marxist politics and said he couldn't now read Siliman's work knowing his political views - now I feel that was rather extreme - but here is an interview or part of it published recently in NZ magazine called Brief where views on the language poets (and other matters) are thrown around - I feel Scott is a bit hard on Sillman - as far as I know Hamish hasn't looked at epc for a while and maybe Andrews has shifted his "Marxist " positions etc But here is the excerpt: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ Hamish: For me, landscape is always something which is inanimate. And it is usually malign...remember, I moved about in China itself, moved from the sticks to the coast and took jobs teaching English, without the literature thing. Finished my Masters' thesis off in China. Scott: Bruce Andrews? Hamish: Bruce Andrews. Scott: What'd you end up thinking about his work? It might not have been so bad studying a poet of dissonance and disjunction in such an alien environment. Hamish: Well, Andrews is working with the violence and dissonance of American society. Social breakdown, breakdowns in communication. Often he works by writing down phrases he hears, overhears, and tries to shape them, relate them, without necessarily making 'sense'. The question is whether he is not simply reproducing the violence that gives him his material...The Language poets offer us a whole range of models, formal models, but I don't see the need to accept the programme, to buy the whole package. Take what you can use. I particularly like Susan Howe. Scott: I agree with that attitude. Some of the critical writing of Ron Silliman, for instance, is incredibly dogmatic. He almost outlaws everything except his 'New Sentence'. A particular form is fetishised as oppositional, subversive yadaya, but the impact of any literary form always depends on context. After a few books of Silliman's I felt that a rhymed sonnet would be more subversive than another 'new' sentence. And of course the only people who were using the new revolutionary formula happened to live in the richest societies in the world. So the form was imperiocentric. Hamish: I can't comment on Silliman, but Andrews has a solid background in Marxism, political economy. He's hardcore. That's one of the things that makes him interesting...but Silliman, I've never been that into him...a bit dry? Scott: I thought the bankruptcy of Silliman and one or two others - David Antin and Marjorie Perloff are names that come to mind - was shown after S 11, when they suddenly morphed into unpaid military advisors to George Dubya. Hamish: Really? On the EPC list? I haven't checked that for years... Scott: If you were against the invasion of Afghanistan Silliman called you an appeaser. The enemy was Islamofascism. Antin actually talked about rats, and having to do an extermination job...understandable responses from ordinary Americans, maybe, but not quite what you'd expect from the Patriachs of the Oppositional Word. Hamish: Most of the Chinese that I talked to had little sympathy with the US after S 11. In fact many were happy. They saw it as the US getting paid back a little for what it's done so often. If the US ever invades China, it will make Iraq look like a cakewalk. The Chinese would just run out of their homes and fight the US troops, with anything they've got. Forks and knives off the table if they had nothing else. They hate America. Scott: You've written academic or semi-academic stuff on other people? Hamish: Leigh Davis, a couple of pieces, the second of which takes issue with the commodification of language in his work...I'm keen on Joanna Paul and have written a bit on her. I'm interested in anyone who's experimenting with language in a disciplined manner. Innovative but also crafted work. Scott: Do you value craft above inspiration, or vice versa, or is the opposition too old-fashioned to be bothered about? Hamish: Inspiration is a craft. Next question. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- I am not quite in complete accord with Scott - he forces the argument for the interview - but am with him in the main points made. Richard Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 09:12:19 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: - age MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit langu age the is the age of talking about talking but no new communication tongue lips but no words for carri age to a new age of marri age of true minds mir age ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 08:22:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 In-Reply-To: <193.36732793.2f0cc859@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i agree; it was stunningly happy-making. and early enough in the evening that i was still tracking. At 11:34 PM -0500 1/4/05, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: >I wonder if it's been posted on someone's blog? > >Although I'm pretty certain that someone had posted it >to this listserv back in August or September. Or maybe >someone had sent it to me and I just thought that I had >seen it posted here. > >To be honest, I had never forgotten reading it, because >it is the sort of inspiring poem you don't/won't forget, >HOWEVER, hearing it, and I mean hearing it Bernstein- >style reading, well, you're marked, permanently. > >Has anyone else out there heard the poet read his poem >who would agree? Even if you have heard and disagree, >well, that's fine, but it won't change my opinion. > >CAConrad >http://phillysound.blogspot.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:16:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Zinc Bar Sunday 1/9 7pm Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline You wag. When are you going to publish my poems? Mairead >>> David Baratier 01/05/05 12:42 AM >>> Mairead-- I guess you weren't told. I will be substituting for Jack but reading his poems. See you there-- Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:47:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm not sure what the function of a political poem with no analysis in it is these days beyond cheerleading for the fans. It's not likely to create any converts, and I don't think many of the faithful are waivering. Maybe the entire purpose is to inscribe oneself as one of the good guys. But if the reading was entertaining that's a plus. Mark At 09:22 AM 1/5/2005, you wrote: >i agree; it was stunningly happy-making. and early enough in the >evening that i was still tracking. > >At 11:34 PM -0500 1/4/05, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: >>I wonder if it's been posted on someone's blog? >> >>Although I'm pretty certain that someone had posted it >>to this listserv back in August or September. Or maybe >>someone had sent it to me and I just thought that I had >>seen it posted here. >> >>To be honest, I had never forgotten reading it, because >>it is the sort of inspiring poem you don't/won't forget, >>HOWEVER, hearing it, and I mean hearing it Bernstein- >>style reading, well, you're marked, permanently. >> >>Has anyone else out there heard the poet read his poem >>who would agree? Even if you have heard and disagree, >>well, that's fine, but it won't change my opinion. >> >>CAConrad >>http://phillysound.blogspot.com > > >-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:44:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Latta Subject: Guy Davenport, 1927-2005 Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII wood s lot is where I learned it: Guy Davenport died yesterday. Surely one of the immortals. http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/10564594.htm http://www.uky.edu/PR/News/050104_guy_davenport.htm John Latta ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:14:00 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Guy Davenport, 1927-2005 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Absolutely. Positively. One of the great ones. Thanks, John. only the good die young. On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:44:31 -0500, John Latta wrote: > wood s lot is where I learned it: Guy Davenport died yesterday. > Surely one of the immortals. > > http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/10564594.htm > > http://www.uky.edu/PR/News/050104_guy_davenport.htm > > John Latta > -- Anastasios Kozaitis 3063 29th Street Astoria, NY 11102 kozaitis@gmail.com m: 917 572 6561 h: 718 267 7943 w: 212 327 8696 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:17:18 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20050105104335.03ebd260@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I would say that the poem has a pretty clear analysis, in that it critiques the (hardly analytical) political language of the Governator- language that reinforces the worst stereotypes of what it means to be a "man". The poem takes its place in a distinguished subversive tradition of co-opting slurs. And cheerleading's not so bad either. It's what Rove calls "rallying the base"! Frank Sherlock >From: Mark Weiss >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 >Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:47:37 -0500 > >I'm not sure what the function of a political poem with no analysis in it >is these days beyond cheerleading for the fans. It's not likely to create >any converts, and I don't think many of the faithful are waivering. Maybe >the entire purpose is to inscribe oneself as one of the good guys. But if >the reading was entertaining that's a plus. > >Mark > > >At 09:22 AM 1/5/2005, you wrote: >>i agree; it was stunningly happy-making. and early enough in the >>evening that i was still tracking. >> >>At 11:34 PM -0500 1/4/05, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: >>>I wonder if it's been posted on someone's blog? >>> >>>Although I'm pretty certain that someone had posted it >>>to this listserv back in August or September. Or maybe >>>someone had sent it to me and I just thought that I had >>>seen it posted here. >>> >>>To be honest, I had never forgotten reading it, because >>>it is the sort of inspiring poem you don't/won't forget, >>>HOWEVER, hearing it, and I mean hearing it Bernstein- >>>style reading, well, you're marked, permanently. >>> >>>Has anyone else out there heard the poet read his poem >>>who would agree? Even if you have heard and disagree, >>>well, that's fine, but it won't change my opinion. >>> >>>CAConrad >>>http://phillysound.blogspot.com >> >> >>-- _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 09:21:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Susan Sontag and a Case of Curious Silence In-Reply-To: <200501050500.j0550CJ7002396@b.mx.sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit though I am not a fan of andrew sullivan... this is a worthy read on Susan Sontag. http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Susan Sontag and a Case of Curious Silence from andrewsullivan.com: THE INNING OF SONTAG: I have to say I'm amazed at the fact that almost all the obituaries for Susan Sontag omitted her primary, longtime relationship with Annie Leibovitz, the photographer. Of 315 articles in Nexis, only 29 mention Leibovitz, and most of them referred merely to their joint projects. Leibovitz was unmentioned as a survivor in the NYT and Washington Post. It's striking how even allegedly liberal outlets routinely excise the homosexual dimension from many people's lives - even from someone dead. But perhaps it is reflective of Sontag's own notions of privacy and identity. She championed many causes in her day, but the gay civil rights movement was oddly not prominent among them. MORE ON SONTAG: I'm not the only one to notice how the big media has essentially lied by omission about Susan Sontag's life. An op-ed in today's L.A. Times notes the following: An unauthorized biography written by Carl Rollyson and Lisa Paddock and published by W.W. Norton in 2000, reports that Sontag was, for seven years, the companion of the great American playwright Maria Irene Fornes (in Sontag's introduction to the collected works of Fornes, she writes about them living together). She also had a relationship with the renowned choreographer Lucinda Childs. And, most recently, Sontag lived, on and off, with Leibovitz. Even Hitchens mentions only her ex-husband. Privacy? From a woman who detailed every aspect of her own illnesses? From someone whose best work is redolent with homosexual themes? But, of course, Sontag understood that her lesbianism might limit her appeal in a homophobic culture - even on the extreme left, where she comfortably lived for decades. That was her prerogative. But that's no reason for the media to perpetuate untruths after her death. And it's certainly reason to review her own record in confronting injustice. Just as she once defended the persecution of gay people in Castro's Cuba, she ducked one of the burning civil rights struggles of her time at home. But she was on the left. So no one criticized. continues @ http://transdada2.blogspot.com/2005/01/susan-sontag-and-case-of- curious.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:05:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Jerome Rothenberg Subject: Millennium Three: A Call for Assistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is to let a number of you know that I'm starting -- indefatigably = -- on a new project of some size: a Romantic and postromantic (including = early modern) gathering conceived as a nineteenth-century sequel or = prequel to Poems for the Millennium. My co-editor and the true = originator of the project is Jeffrey Robinson, whom some of you may know = already as a scholar of English Romanticism and a marvelous voice in = connecting that germinal moment and movement to the most innovative and = radical poetries of our own time and place. The publisher, as with = Poems for the Millennium, will be the University of California Press. Our plan is to trace a line or several lines of work -- both poetry and = poetics -- from the late eighteenth-century post-enlightenment to the = early twentieth-century eruption of experimental and avant-garde = modernism. Like what Pierre Joris and I did in Poems for the = Millennium, such a gathering, as we conceive it, would be international = in scope (with a focus, for obvious reasons, on all of Europe and all of = the Americas) and would attempt to restore a sense of the revolutionary = and transformative nature of Romanticism and postromanticism as they = were at the time of their inception. We would also aim, as before, to = reach beyond literature as such and to incorporate both extraliterary = forms of language experiment and the vast range of ethnopoetic = discoveries that were prevalent throughout the nineteenth century. By = so doing we aim to recapture a great body of poetry (canonical as well = as non-canonical) that was stripped of its counterpoetic potential and = too often denied by many of those who were in fact among its true = inheritors. =20 Jeffrey Robinson and I view this not only as "our" project but as a = potentially collective work, in which we would call on the knowledge and = the passions of those of you who share our sense of the romantic as a = principal starting point for much that has followed. Our primary search = is for works of poetry -- broadly defined -- but we are also tracking = down critical and scholarly writings, including (very much so) related = work and commentaries by later poets and other active practitioners, = among them many of those for whom Romanticism as such was or remains a = problematic value. Beyond that we have a desperate need for = translations -- either suggestions of poetry already translated or = offers to join with us in the crucial work of creating or transcreating = new translations that will conserve and forcefully carry the old works = back to the domain of the new. As with Poems for the Millennium, when Pierre Joris and I began it, we = have only a first, still dim presentiment of where this will carry us. = What we're offering, then, is a genuine call both for translations and = for consultation and assistance that will open the project to all of you = who want to have a voice in it. =20 Jerome Rothenberg,=20 on behalf of Jeffrey Robinson and myself=20 jrothenberg@cox.net=20 Jeffrey.C.Robinson@colorado.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:11:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Millennium Three: A Call for Assistance Comments: To: jrothenberg@COX.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Jerome, For a poetry left outside Romanticism, although its economy was bound = deeply into that of the Romantics, I hope you will look at Se=E1n =D3 = Tuama and Thomas Kinsella's An Duanaire: Poems of the Dispossessed = 1600-1900 (Dolmen Press, 1994). Mairead >>> jrothenberg@COX.NET 01/05/05 1:05 PM >>> This is to let a number of you know that I'm starting -- indefatigably -- = on a new project of some size: a Romantic and postromantic (including = early modern) gathering conceived as a nineteenth-century sequel or = prequel to Poems for the Millennium. My co-editor and the true originator = of the project is Jeffrey Robinson, whom some of you may know already as a = scholar of English Romanticism and a marvelous voice in connecting that = germinal moment and movement to the most innovative and radical poetries = of our own time and place. The publisher, as with Poems for the Millennium= , will be the University of California Press. Our plan is to trace a line or several lines of work -- both poetry and = poetics -- from the late eighteenth-century post-enlightenment to the = early twentieth-century eruption of experimental and avant-garde modernism.= Like what Pierre Joris and I did in Poems for the Millennium, such a = gathering, as we conceive it, would be international in scope (with a = focus, for obvious reasons, on all of Europe and all of the Americas) and = would attempt to restore a sense of the revolutionary and transformative = nature of Romanticism and postromanticism as they were at the time of = their inception. We would also aim, as before, to reach beyond literature = as such and to incorporate both extraliterary forms of language experiment = and the vast range of ethnopoetic discoveries that were prevalent = throughout the nineteenth century. By so doing we aim to recapture a = great body of poetry (canonical as well as non-canonical) that was = stripped of its counterpoetic potential and too often denied by many of = those who were in fact among its true inheritors. =20 Jeffrey Robinson and I view this not only as "our" project but as a = potentially collective work, in which we would call on the knowledge and = the passions of those of you who share our sense of the romantic as a = principal starting point for much that has followed. Our primary search = is for works of poetry -- broadly defined -- but we are also tracking down = critical and scholarly writings, including (very much so) related work and = commentaries by later poets and other active practitioners, among them = many of those for whom Romanticism as such was or remains a problematic = value. Beyond that we have a desperate need for translations -- either = suggestions of poetry already translated or offers to join with us in the = crucial work of creating or transcreating new translations that will = conserve and forcefully carry the old works back to the domain of the new. As with Poems for the Millennium, when Pierre Joris and I began it, we = have only a first, still dim presentiment of where this will carry us. = What we're offering, then, is a genuine call both for translations and for = consultation and assistance that will open the project to all of you who = want to have a voice in it. =20 Jerome Rothenberg,=20 on behalf of Jeffrey Robinson and myself=20 jrothenberg@cox.net=20 Jeffrey.C.Robinson@colorado.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:16:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: Susan Sontag and a Case of Curious Silence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Sullivan manages to remain a falsifier even when he is ostensibly criticizing (with reason) the U.S. press's omission of Susan Sontag's homosexuality (something which, I might add, Spain's EL PAIS and Mexico's LA JORNADA reported fully, both acknowledging her relationship with Annie Liebowitz and both dedicating several pages to remembrances and evaluations of her work and legacy). Sontag did not, as Sullivan claims, "defend the persecution of gay people in Castro's Cuba." In fact, she appeared in Nestor Almendros and Orlando Jimenez Leal's documentary film IMPROPER CONDUCT, which detailed and denounced precisely such persecution. This was a courageous action, as most on the stubbornly pro-Castro "left" attacked the film. Subsequently, she denounced the suppression of Solidarity by General Jaruzelski in 1981 and, without at any time supporting Reagan and his group of kakocrats, denounced Stalinism and its legacies in Eastern Europe. A couple of years ago, she wrote an illuminating preface to Victor Serge's novel of the Stalinist purges THE CASE OF COMRADE TULAYEV. And although I am generally unconvinced by her ventures into fiction, I admired very much her short story from the 1980s, "The Way We Live Now," which deals with AIDS. All of Sullivan's sneerily reductive left-bashing simply overlooks the fact that, however much she may have supported the Chinese Cultural Revolution and the Castro regime in the past, she never hesitated to change her positions on these issues without for that matter ever abandoning an independent leftist perspective. ----- Original Message ----- From: kari edwards Date: Wednesday, January 5, 2005 11:21 am Subject: Susan Sontag and a Case of Curious Silence > though I am not a fan of andrew sullivan... this is a worthy read on > Susan Sontag. > http://transdada.blogspot.com/ > > > Susan Sontag and a Case of Curious Silence > > from andrewsullivan.com: > > THE INNING OF SONTAG: I have to say I'm amazed at the fact that almost > all the obituaries for Susan Sontag omitted her primary, longtime > relationship with Annie Leibovitz, the photographer. Of 315 > articles in > Nexis, only 29 mention Leibovitz, and most of them referred merely to > their joint projects. Leibovitz was unmentioned as a survivor in the > NYT and Washington Post. It's striking how even allegedly liberal > outlets routinely excise the homosexual dimension from many people's > lives - even from someone dead. But perhaps it is reflective of > Sontag's own notions of privacy and identity. She championed many > causes in her day, but the gay civil rights movement was oddly not > prominent among them. > > MORE ON SONTAG: I'm not the only one to notice how the big media has > essentially lied by omission about Susan Sontag's life. An op-ed in > today's L.A. Times notes the following: An unauthorized biography > written by Carl Rollyson and Lisa Paddock and published by W.W. Norton > in 2000, reports that Sontag was, for seven years, the companion > of the > great American playwright Maria Irene Fornes (in Sontag's introduction > to the collected works of Fornes, she writes about them living > together). She also had a relationship with the renowned choreographer > Lucinda Childs. And, most recently, Sontag lived, on and off, with > Leibovitz. > > Even Hitchens mentions only her ex-husband. Privacy? From a woman who > detailed every aspect of her own illnesses? From someone whose best > work is redolent with homosexual themes? But, of course, Sontag > understood that her lesbianism might limit her appeal in a homophobic > culture - even on the extreme left, where she comfortably lived for > decades. That was her prerogative. But that's no reason for the media > to perpetuate untruths after her death. And it's certainly reason to > review her own record in confronting injustice. Just as she once > defended the persecution of gay people in Castro's Cuba, she > ducked one > of the burning civil rights struggles of her time at home. But she was > on the left. So no one criticized. > > continues @ > http://transdada2.blogspot.com/2005/01/susan-sontag-and-case-of- > curious.html > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:38:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: yes, well, we really thought about the car MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed yes, well, we really thought about the car http://www.asondheim.org/sway.mov azure changed shape! we went to a store we went home ( from the car thing ) so yes, i can tell you now it was harrowing! _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:52:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: more laundry Comments: To: amy king , Craig Allen Conrad , kevin thurston Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Sun Dries someone left the poetry=20 out to hang. it condenses into=20 nonsense=97=20 then incensed, left the scene, apropos to the apex=97 none of which=20 were much to be seen (but the secret filling in the aptitude of poetry) www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:21:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Boog City 21 Now Available In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii David, It did. I will send a post paid envelope to you for a complete set of Boog City, and also for ten copies of your latest. Expect after the 10th, since that is payday for me. Have I sent you a copy of Experimental Theology? I recall doing this. I send you other publications, but our copies of them are scarce. salut, Robert "David A. Kirschenbaum" wrote: on 12/8/04 6:33 PM, Robert Corbett at robertmc00@YAHOO.COM wrote: > David, > > How does in one Seattle (which is doing it's damnedest to feel like New York, > weatherwise) get copies of Boog City? > > Robert hey robert, sorry for the delay in my reply. the best bet is a postpaid envelope big enough to fit 8" x 10.75" (as 1/4 folded) copies of the paper. so probably an 11" x 14" one would work. and a check payable to boog city for as many different issues, or multiple copies of an issue, you desire. when i listed issues for sale on poetics 18 months ago, i said 7 for $20 ppd. As of now there are 21 issues out (all of which i can detail for you what's inside of them). Let me know how many you might like and i can tell you how much postage to put on and what i'd charge you for them. hope this finds you well. as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:54:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Dorward Subject: 3 new publications from The Gig Comments: cc: lexiconjury@yahoogroups.com, smallpressers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A new year, a new batch of publications..... THE GIG #17 -- Poems by derek beaulieu, William Fuller, Steve McCaffery, Karen Mac = Cormack, Shelby Matthews, Tom Orange, Susan M Schultz, Gavin Selerie, = Robert Sheppard & Christine Stewart -- a talk by Keston Sutherland on John Wilkinson's Iphigenia -- & the usual full-to-bursting review section..... A table of contents & some of the reviews are available online at = http://www.ndorward.com/poetry/magazines/gig17.htm Single issue:=20 $7.50 Cdn / $6 US (prices include airmail within North America) =A34.50 / 6 euros (prices include airmail overseas)=20 Three-issue subscription or three backissues:=20 $20 Cdn / $16.50 US (prices include airmail with North America) =A312 / 16.50 euros (prices include airmail overseas) Allen Fisher's ENTANGLEMENT A 288pp collection of Allen's work of the 1990s and early 2000s--a major = chunk of the project Gravity as a consequence of shape that has occupied = Allen since 1980. Entanglement roves from Piers Plowman to Kurt Cobain = to genetic engineering as it meditates on loss, damage and noise, = discovering in them both sources of harm and sites of unpredictability = and creativity. A sampler from the book here: = http://www.ndorward.com/poetry/entanglement/sampler.htm=20 Full t.o.c. here: http://www.ndorward.com/poetry/entanglement/toc.htm=20 (including a few bonus texts that didn't make it into the published = book) $25 Cdn / $20 US (includes airmail within North America) =A315 / 22 euros (includes airmail overseas)=20 THE FLY ON THE PAGE: The Gig Documents 3 56pp, large format, staplebound: a sheaf of poetics documents, essays & = interviews: -- Three auto-commentaries by Trevor Joyce on stone floods, Without = Asylum & several short pieces: a startling window onto the thinking & = procedures that go into his writing -- cris cheek's "From a Performant", detailing his interest in moving = from the genre of the "poetry reading" into an expanded idea of = "performance" -- Harry Gilonis's "The Spider, the Fly and Philosophy: Following a Clew = Through Maurice Scully's Livelihood": an elegant, thought-provoking = introduction to Scully's work -- An interview with Pete Smith, plus a short selection of his poetry. A sampler here: http://www.ndorward.com/poetry/books/fly_sampler.htm=20 $10 Cdn / $8 US (includes airmail within North America) =A36 / 9 euros (includes airmail overseas)=20 =20 Please makes cheques out to "Nate Dorward" (109 Hounslow Ave, = Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada); email: ndorward AT ndorward.com More info, various web-only goodies, &c at www.ndorward.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:16:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: poets theater, Susan Howe, HD movie star MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit January 14--28, 2005: POETS' THEATER JAMBOREE Come on out for our annual showcase of poets as playwrights, directors, producers, actors -- it's wild, it's lovely, it's SPT's Poets' Theater Jamboree 2005. All seats $10 to benefit Small Press Traffic. *Seating is first come, first served.* Friday, January 14, 2005 at 7:30 PM Kenneth Koch, "Bertha" (1959), directed by Mac McGinnes Brolaski, Cunningham, Fisher, & Holt, "The Ten Minute Hollywood," directed by Cynthia Sailers Katie Degentesh, "Katie Degentesh," directed by Rodney Koeneke Peach Friedman, "We Do Not Keep Speaking," directed by Donna de la Perriere Ronald Palmer, "Dreaming of Wombs," directed by the author John Sakkis, "Game 6," directed by Kevin Killian Friday, January 21, 2005 at 7:30 PM Gertrude Stein, "White Wines" (1913), directed by Elizabeth Treadwell Steffi Drewes, "A Single Piece of Any Color," directed by the author Daphne Gottlieb, "introducing linda lovelace as herself," directed by Rodney Koeneke Brenda Hillman & Jennifer MacKensie, "Brief Arcades Cosmogony," director tba Arnold J. Kemp, "Composition with Toy Piano," directed by the author Eleni Stecopoulos, "Armies of Compassion," directed by Joseph Lease Friday, January 28, 2005 at 7:30 PM Jack Spicer, "[Nobody in the Bar]" (1956), directed by Del Ray Cross Norma Cole, "Odile & Odette" (1996), directed by Elizabeth Treadwell Matthew Celona, "The Gorillas Bush," directed by Stephanie Young Amanda Davidson, "Arcana Caelestia," directed by the author Anna Eyre & Robin Powesland, "Charlotte miserable in her web," directed by the authors Stephanie Young & David Hadbawnik, "The Last Experimental Poet in Captivity," directed by the authors & coming in February 2/5 10th annual Soiree with Susan Howe advance tickets required, please call 415.551.9278 2/18 Borderline starring HD & Paul Robeson, introduced by Susan McCabe, author of Cinematic Modernism *free* If you'd like a flyer listing our events through May, please reply with your snail mail address. Hope to see you soon! Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:00:14 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Susan Sontag and a Case of Curious Silence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I enjoy Susan Sontags esays on Reifenstahl and so on and I sold that book of stories on AIDS - she also writes about cancer - I read that - it s ounds morebid but she makes the pont that it hasbt replaced TB as a "romantic" way to be or die - so many in lit are romantcillaly "consumptive etc - but TB and of course cancer ans aids are terrible diseases and she atckle those subjects - alos heaad onto Hitler and other questions - she was a very bright person - very knowledgeable, as was Guy Davenprt - first heard of him on Hugh Kenner's "The Pound Era" I havent read anything about her and I had no idea she was "gay" or whatver - I saw a picture of her - her face I could see on one book - and she appeared very intense: beautiful face, and intelligent - as her work is - very intelligent..very insightful. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Leland Winks" To: Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 7:16 AM Subject: Re: Susan Sontag and a Case of Curious Silence > Andrew Sullivan manages to remain a falsifier even when he is > ostensibly criticizing (with reason) the U.S. press's omission of > Susan Sontag's homosexuality (something which, I might add, Spain's EL > PAIS and Mexico's LA JORNADA reported fully, both acknowledging her > relationship with Annie Liebowitz and both dedicating several pages to > remembrances and evaluations of her work and legacy). Sontag did not, > as Sullivan claims, "defend the persecution of gay people in Castro's > Cuba." In fact, she appeared in Nestor Almendros and Orlando Jimenez > Leal's documentary film IMPROPER CONDUCT, which detailed and denounced > precisely such persecution. This was a courageous action, as most on > the stubbornly pro-Castro "left" attacked the film. Subsequently, she > denounced the suppression of Solidarity by General Jaruzelski in 1981 > and, without at any time supporting Reagan and his group of kakocrats, > denounced Stalinism and its legacies in Eastern Europe. A couple of > years ago, she wrote an illuminating preface to Victor Serge's novel > of the Stalinist purges THE CASE OF COMRADE TULAYEV. And although I > am generally unconvinced by her ventures into fiction, I admired very > much her short story from the 1980s, "The Way We Live Now," which > deals with AIDS. > > All of Sullivan's sneerily reductive left-bashing simply overlooks the > fact that, however much she may have supported the Chinese Cultural > Revolution and the Castro regime in the past, she never hesitated to > change her positions on these issues without for that matter ever > abandoning an independent leftist perspective. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kari edwards > Date: Wednesday, January 5, 2005 11:21 am > Subject: Susan Sontag and a Case of Curious Silence > > > though I am not a fan of andrew sullivan... this is a worthy read on > > Susan Sontag. > > http://transdada.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > Susan Sontag and a Case of Curious Silence > > > > from andrewsullivan.com: > > > > THE INNING OF SONTAG: I have to say I'm amazed at the fact that > almost > > all the obituaries for Susan Sontag omitted her primary, longtime > > relationship with Annie Leibovitz, the photographer. Of 315 > > articles in > > Nexis, only 29 mention Leibovitz, and most of them referred merely to > > their joint projects. Leibovitz was unmentioned as a survivor in the > > NYT and Washington Post. It's striking how even allegedly liberal > > outlets routinely excise the homosexual dimension from many people's > > lives - even from someone dead. But perhaps it is reflective of > > Sontag's own notions of privacy and identity. She championed many > > causes in her day, but the gay civil rights movement was oddly not > > prominent among them. > > > > MORE ON SONTAG: I'm not the only one to notice how the big media has > > essentially lied by omission about Susan Sontag's life. An op-ed in > > today's L.A. Times notes the following: An unauthorized biography > > written by Carl Rollyson and Lisa Paddock and published by W.W. > Norton > > in 2000, reports that Sontag was, for seven years, the companion > > of the > > great American playwright Maria Irene Fornes (in Sontag's > introduction > > to the collected works of Fornes, she writes about them living > > together). She also had a relationship with the renowned > choreographer > > Lucinda Childs. And, most recently, Sontag lived, on and off, with > > Leibovitz. > > > > Even Hitchens mentions only her ex-husband. Privacy? From a woman who > > detailed every aspect of her own illnesses? From someone whose best > > work is redolent with homosexual themes? But, of course, Sontag > > understood that her lesbianism might limit her appeal in a homophobic > > culture - even on the extreme left, where she comfortably lived for > > decades. That was her prerogative. But that's no reason for the media > > to perpetuate untruths after her death. And it's certainly reason to > > review her own record in confronting injustice. Just as she once > > defended the persecution of gay people in Castro's Cuba, she > > ducked one > > of the burning civil rights struggles of her time at home. But she > was > > on the left. So no one criticized. > > > > continues @ > > http://transdada2.blogspot.com/2005/01/susan-sontag-and-case-of- > > curious.html > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:11:23 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Steve Dalachinksy, you say "wow that's a bit much" in reference to my giving Mr. Bernstein my much coveted Sexiest Poem Award. You feel I'm overrating the poem? Is that what you mean by "wow that's a bit much"? Well, I guess that's the way it is with awards, meaning not everyone's going to agree with the judge's decision, but hey, it's my award to give, and I'll give it to the poet I feel deserves it the most. CAConrad http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:29:26 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First of all, Frank Sherlock, I agree with everything you say. but Mark Weiss, did you actually read the poem? If you did, I'm not at all certain how you can say what you did. Even if Bernstein weren't making reference to the governor of California's ridiculous speech at the RNC, even if he was just talking out of the air, it's an amazing political statement. So much of this world is braided with tension around our gender and how we "need" to act, work, play, make love, eat food, pay the bills, la la la la lalala, the song goes on, and you know it. Bernstein has done something VERY few heterosexual men (I'm sorry Mr. Bernstein for assuming you're heterosexual, because I certainly wouldn't want anyone assuming that about me) are willing, or capable, or BRAVE enough to do, and that is to jeopardize his role as a Man. It's very cool, it's so wonderful, and far FAR more cutting edge that any of us faggots out here writing poetry can do. Meaning of course that for a faggot like me to write such a poem would almost be, Yeah, I told you so. But for Bernstein, well, it is a definite slice of courage, stepping out of the Norm, even for a poet. After reading the poem I gained a new respect for Bernstein, but after hearing him read it, well, I'm marked, and willing to defend the man at this point. He has my vote, and he has my award for The Sexiest Poem Of 2004!!!!!!! CAConrad http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:31:42 -0800 Reply-To: ishaq1823@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Re: Susan Sontag and a Case of Curious Silence In-Reply-To: <3432F36C-5F3E-11D9-91D6-003065AC6058@sonic.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit peace in these times where invasion has become a metaphor in our lives, it was a curious silence that susan sontag's bravery, intellect, radical writing and philosophies were not ignored in favour of yello jouranlism's incursion on the personal; for we have been fascinated into the trivial by those easily distracted for a daze for far too long. i think it a pleasant return to what's really important concerning the life and work of an artist, writer and intellect not bogged down by the cult of personality and western soaperatic identity politricks. it is by this curious silence where sontag is given respects for a life's work-- not as a jew, not as a gay; not as a woman b.u.t. as, indeed, a writer with flow who challenged the static snow of the billboredom of amerikkka. "The conversation among writers that takes place in the last 20 years is for the most part just like the conversation of any other professional people on the make. They could just as well be advertising executives or businesspeople, or anything else. They talk about income and they talk about the comforts or lack of comforts of their personal lives, and -- but that's a kind of -- if I think back on my own life, the single most amazing phenomenon is the discrediting of idealism." -- Democracy Now Interview: Susan Sontag, 1933-2004 http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/36252.php peace kari edwards wrote: > though I am not a fan of andrew sullivan... this is a worthy read on > Susan Sontag. > http://transdada.blogspot.com/ > > > Susan Sontag and a Case of Curious Silence > > from andrewsullivan.com: > > THE INNING OF SONTAG: I have to say I'm amazed at the fact that almost > all the obituaries for Susan Sontag omitted her primary, longtime > relationship with Annie Leibovitz, the photographer. Of 315 articles in > Nexis, only 29 mention Leibovitz, and most of them referred merely to > their joint projects. Leibovitz was unmentioned as a survivor in the > NYT and Washington Post. It's striking how even allegedly liberal > outlets routinely excise the homosexual dimension from many people's > lives - even from someone dead. But perhaps it is reflective of > Sontag's own notions of privacy and identity. She championed many > causes in her day, but the gay civil rights movement was oddly not > prominent among them. > > MORE ON SONTAG: I'm not the only one to notice how the big media has > essentially lied by omission about Susan Sontag's life. An op-ed in > today's L.A. Times notes the following: An unauthorized biography > written by Carl Rollyson and Lisa Paddock and published by W.W. Norton > in 2000, reports that Sontag was, for seven years, the companion of the > great American playwright Maria Irene Fornes (in Sontag's introduction > to the collected works of Fornes, she writes about them living > together). She also had a relationship with the renowned choreographer > Lucinda Childs. And, most recently, Sontag lived, on and off, with > Leibovitz. > > Even Hitchens mentions only her ex-husband. Privacy? From a woman who > detailed every aspect of her own illnesses? From someone whose best > work is redolent with homosexual themes? But, of course, Sontag > understood that her lesbianism might limit her appeal in a homophobic > culture - even on the extreme left, where she comfortably lived for > decades. That was her prerogative. But that's no reason for the media > to perpetuate untruths after her death. And it's certainly reason to > review her own record in confronting injustice. Just as she once > defended the persecution of gay people in Castro's Cuba, she ducked one > of the burning civil rights struggles of her time at home. But she was > on the left. So no one criticized. > > continues @ > http://transdada2.blogspot.com/2005/01/susan-sontag-and-case-of- > curious.html > Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 18:09:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: PennSound MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/ PennSound is the largest collection of poetry sound files on the Internet, boasting 1,500 for noncommercial distribution and growing. "This has never been done before," said Al Filreis, PennSound co-director (with Charles Bernstein). "Most of the electronic sound files available to the public are of entire poetry recordings, 30 or more minutes long, with no tracking of individual cuts or poems. We believe philosophically that, since there is no significant profit to be gained by the sale of recorded poetry -- unlike music -- many, many more poets will continue to grant us permission to use their work." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:43:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 In-Reply-To: <15.3b94368a.2f0db636@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Yup, read it. I'm glad it gave you so much pleasure. Mark At 04:29 PM 1/5/2005, you wrote: >First of all, Frank Sherlock, I agree with everything you say. > >but Mark Weiss, did you actually read the poem? > >If you did, I'm not at all certain how you can say what you did. >Even if Bernstein weren't making reference to the governor of >California's ridiculous speech at the RNC, even if he was just >talking out of the air, it's an amazing political statement. > >So much of this world is braided with tension around our gender >and how we "need" to act, work, play, make love, eat food, pay >the bills, la la la la lalala, the song goes on, and you know it. > >Bernstein has done something VERY few heterosexual men >(I'm sorry Mr. Bernstein for assuming you're heterosexual, >because I certainly wouldn't want anyone assuming that >about me) are willing, or capable, or BRAVE enough to do, >and that is to jeopardize his role as a Man. It's very cool, it's >so wonderful, and far FAR more cutting edge that any of us >faggots out here writing poetry can do. Meaning of course >that for a faggot like me to write such a poem would almost >be, Yeah, I told you so. But for Bernstein, well, it is a definite >slice of courage, stepping out of the Norm, even for a poet. > >After reading the poem I gained a new respect for Bernstein, >but after hearing him read it, well, I'm marked, and willing to >defend the man at this point. He has my vote, and he has >my award for The Sexiest Poem Of 2004!!!!!!! > >CAConrad >http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 22:01:54 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Happy New Year's to My Right Hand/Fest Funding/Editorial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received some unfortunate news yesterday. My friend Jon Kuniholm serving in Iraq (http://www.asmenews.org/features/1204iraq.html, http://tinyurl.com/6r9kj) was seriously wounded during an ambush while on patrol New Year's Day and lost his right hand and much of his right arm. He survived thankfully but neither his right hand not his right hand man didn't make it. Jon's on his way home and everything will be done to ensure that his arm will be treated with the best of care. So in my little life of less consequence I wrote a poem upon hearing the awful news, a poem clearly incomplete and raw, and then WCHL called hours later asking me if I had a New Year's poem for them. It's of course way too early for me to process the news about Jon, much less write a poem about it, and so like most of my poems out came this very awkward poem in defiance of anything sound or reasonable. What timing, however, that WCHL would call asking for a New Year's poem. So I decided to read it for them, and they recorded it as part of an interview. God how Jon'd hate this poem. Believe me I don't like it so much either, except maybe as a foil for getting some of this frustration out of my system. I'm just glad Jon's coming back and will continue to be the wonderful husband and father he is. I also know the media doesn't want to hear about bad news and casualties in a poem--"support your troops" is the rhetorical equivalent to "shut your piehole you unpatriotic terror-lover"--but then I think the folks at WCHL are going to play it, so what do I know? So if you're in the neighborhood listen to 1360AM WCHL Thursday (tomorrow) between 7 and 9AM to "WCHL Morning News with Ron Stutts" for it. Notes on the poem: The first stanza borrows from "Lift Your Right Arm" by Peter Cherches and "As I Walked Out One Evening" by WH Auden. Parts of the second stanza are taken from quotes from Bush and Rumsfeld (e.g., Rumsfeld, on WMDs - "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.") The second stanza is a traduction of "Auld Lang Syne." Other news: I was recently featured in an editorial in the local newspaper, and it's been reprinted in Ruby Sinreich's terrific Orange Politics blog: http://tinyurl.com/66jvj Also, the Carrboro Poetry Festival was awarded a $1500 grant from the Orange County Arts Council, thanks in large part to the hard work of Jon Wilner: http://carrboropoetryfestival.org LA-based poet Catherine Daly has written a little about my new book on her blog: http://tinyurl.com/7yz5z http://tinyurl.com/3k5to Fresh holiday pics of my little girl: http://proximate.org/gallery/ I will be reading in Durham on Friday January 21st between 7:30-10PM for durham3 organized by Tanya Olson. I will share more details as they become available. Finally, I will be reading with one of America's greatest poets (oh how he'll shudder to read that), and my dear friend, Kent Johnson (http://jacketmagazine.com/bio/kent.html, http://www.bostonreview.net/BR22.2/perloff.html), at the Internationalist in Chapel Hill on March 26 at 8 PM. Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:45:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: War Words MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I read Bernstein...hmmmmmmmmm interesting, but not my award winner = for War Poetry with power. Karl Shapiro: Poems 1940 - 1953 "Recapitulations" IV "The soldier's death occasions Seldom a bitter cry; We feel in his abrasions A death that we deny.=20 To fall as such another And hundreds far and near Is true for friend and brother, But false for us who fear.=20 Luck has a wider cover Than Justice's or God's Our chances scarcely hover,=20 The Exception sees and nods. Saluting the death of any The mass will seldom grieve, For out of the fall of many The one will rise and leave." =20 ************************** One must only hope=20 dream that the departing sole=20 in fact was a girly man... though,=20 she may not have been.=20 she might have been the other,=20 she might have been the manly girl. =20 Alex=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:30:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: Neglected poets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a contribution to this group, and in the hope of generating some usefu= l discussion, I plan soon to post a few short essays on fine but neglected poets. By neglected, I mean that their works are unlikely to be familiar= to readers of poetry in English speaking countries, because their poems are = hard to find unless you know exactly where to look, and they are rarely anthologized. Though I can't presume that list members will find my opinions worth read= ing, I hope that the fact that these poets have not received much attention, a= nd that they are good enough to deserve more, will make the essays worth you= r consideration. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:30:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: A neglected poet: Sean Rafferty Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A great poet, I think, can not be defined, but can always be recognized. = Typical characteristics may include the ability to speak of private joy o= r misery with universal validity, a voice which vividly incarnates its owne= r's personality in every line, an unstrained mastery of all the various lingu= istic and cultural traditions of which any poet is the product, and perhaps mos= t telling of all, a dawning awareness on the part of the reader that here a= re poems not so much to be read as to be lived with. The Scottish poet Sean Rafferty by all these criteria is unmistakably a g= reat poet. At the time of his death in 1993 he had published very little, tho= ugh his poetry won the admiration of such important poets as Ted Hughes and S= orley MacLean, and the posthumous issuance of his collected poems by the presti= gious British publisher Carcanet attracted little attention. Such neglect is incomprehensible, since his poetry surely evinces all the qualities of greatness which I have just mentioned. The universalizaton of personal g= rief, one of the oldest and most important functions of poetry, is achieved wit= h heartbreaking success in a group of early pieces on loss which, like most= of his poems, are untitled. Here, for example, are some verses on the deat= h of the poet's first wife in 1945: In May the month of miracle flower on the black bough flower on the green leaf; in May the flower the frost the fall the month of May is all my grief. = The white hawthorn the lilac massed = to dwarf my mourning where I passed; they were like alien angels come before their time to greet her home = Too early come the cruel frost that claimed my love too early lost their promise for a tribute gave and wept their flowers into her grave. We can discern behind the seemingly artless accents of these lines a characteristic diction and technique which is learnedly traditional yet staunchly modernistic: that second stanza would not seem out place in Fr= ost, nor would the third in Marvell, yet they still seem easily compatible wit= h each other. Also typical of this poet is the slight, deliberate idiosync= rasy of syntax and punctuation -- for instance, the lack of a verb in the firs= t three lines of the first stanza, the omitted commas in the next two lines= , and the lack of a conjunction in the first line of the next stanza -- minor a= nd deliberate irregularities which give a startling extra dimension to the p= oetic voice, a voice which expresses, with intense emotion under utter control,= a vision in which the external world becomes not merely symbolic of the poe= t's emotions, but fused into identity with them, as for instance in the image= of the flowering trees which dwarf human pain. Similar qualities distinguish Rafferty's several poems on the lost innocence of childhood, of which 'On the green hill of childhood keep...'= I would rank with Dylan Thomas's 'Fern Hill' as one of our definitive state= ments of the theme. It is very hard not to quote the whole of this wonderful po= em, but perhaps its ending lines will suggest how Rafferty has achieved the miracle of writing about childhood with deep feeling unmarred by sentimentality, as well as how skillfully he can give his poems added intellectual resonance by positioning them within specific traditions, in= this case by deft allusions to Marvell's The Garden: Run where you will you cannot trespass, if you fall you fall only where grass is soft; though ripe fruits reach into your mouth they do not tempt but teach a simple lesson and no sin to eat: the sloe how bitter but the bramble sweet. (Compare Marvell: What wondrous life is this I lead! Ripe apples drop about my head; The luscious clusters of the vine Upon my mouth do crush their wine; The nectarine and curious peach Into my hands themselves do reach; Stumbling on melons as I pass, Ensnared with flowers, I fall on grass.) The timelessness of much of Rafferty's verse is demonstrated in an elegi= ac ballad on old William Woolsery, which could almost have been written at anytime in the past four centuries but which does not sound in the least artificially archaic. "An old man mumbling in a public bar" (these poems= seem full of old men and they are all tough and touchy and flawed and kind and= beautiful) gives us one of our literature's classic statements on the sam= eness of all wars: it is what "The Battle of Blenheim" might have been if "The= Battle of Blenheim" were not ghastly. War is also the theme of "1945" an= d "1959," which present a horrifying vision of past and present hellishly jumbled together both physically and culturally in the urban landscape of= London after World War II, which Rafferty unforgettably calls "a war the surrealists won." It must not be thought, however, that such melancholy themes exhaust Rafferty's poetic range: he is also capable of producing some of the mos= t splendid comic verse of the century. High points of his work in this man= ner include "A Near Thing," a sort of combination of P. G. Wodehouse and Noel= Coward with a touch of Samuel Beckett, and "Liebestod," perhaps the most puzzlingly hilarious poem in English since "The Aged Aged Man," which giv= es us among much else the (deliberately Betjemanesque?) lines: Simile to me, smile to me speak with your smile to me, speak to me over the din; Oh how I wish I was oiling your bicycle then we could go for a spin That, like all high comic verse, stays funny no matter how many times you= read it. I hope these samples will at least make defensible my contention that th= is poet, who is in none of the major reference works or anthologies, belongs= in them all. [Sean Rafferty's poetry is available in Britain from Etruscan Press at http://www.seaham.i12.com/etruscan/ and in the U.S from Small Press Distributors at http://www.spdbooks.org/] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:34:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Guy Davenport. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT 5 January 2005 I go to the bookshelf, take down Flowers & Leaves, that striking and alas so little-known long poem so elegantly published back in 1966 by Jonathan Williams, Guy's lifelong friend. And drew the sorts: my hand flips back and forth, I do not watch, and the motion stops, my thumb at page 110. "The cat of Pierre Loti. _Hippolyte on l'appelle_. A sardine of paleological silver the great artist Gave him when he sat for his portrait, aromatic And with the _soupcon_ of _huile d'olive_ about it, As was proper, whose family reached back To Nilotic tax collectors in porcelan wigs, To the bee gums of Beersheba, Akkadian hotels, (A cousin removed was friend to Mr Smart the poet); Leo Alektor kept the high gates at Mycenae, Quite Hebraic, the family tree, rich in detail. But we are companion to Monsieur Loti.." Yes. His love for cats. His restless curious and so astonishingly generous and open mind, its passionate delights. "Guy Davenport went round in a dream the day he learned the Greek alphabet," he told me in 1979. That dream never faded, any more than will he in my remembrance and delight. The debt - my debt - is enormous. Our debt, I should say. He read, thought, remembered. He remembered _everything. And cared, profoundly. Oh damn! damn! damn! the loss. What else is there to say. Peter ======================================= "Nothing is so helpless as the liberal spirit face to face with fundamentalism." Guy Davenport, on Osip Mandelstam ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 01:03:04 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM Subject: Tim Davis & Rob Fitterman, new from Edge Books, SPECIAL OFFER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing two new titles from Edge Books. AMERICAN WHATEVER by Tim Davis and METROPOLIS XXX: THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE by Rob Fitterman SPECIAL OFFER: Order both books before Jan 1 for $16 postpaid. OR get AMERICAN WHATEVER for $9 (regulaly $12.50) OR get METROPOLIS XXX for $9 (regularly $12.50) SELECT EDGE TITLES ALSO AVAILABLE DURING THIS SPECIAL OFFER AT DISCOUNTED RATES: INTERVAL, Kaia Sand, $7 (regularly $10) THE SENSE RECORD, Jennifer Moxley, $10 (regularly $12.50) ZERO STAR HOTEL, Anselm Berrigan, $11 (regularly $14) INTEGRITY & DRAMATIC LIFE, Anselm Berrigan, $7 (regularly $10) ACE, Tom Raworth, $7 (regularly $10) AERIAL 9: BRUCE ANDREWS, $11 (regularly $15) DOVECOTE, Heather Fuller, $7 (regularly $10) PERHAPS THIS IS A RESCUE FANTASY, Heather Fuller, $7 (regularly $10) MARIJUANA SOFTDRINK, Buck Downs, $8 (regularly $11) HAZE: ESSAYS POEMS PROSE, Mark Wallace, $10 (regularly $12.50) NOTHING HAPPENED AND BESIDES I WASN'T THERE, Mark Wallace, $7 (regularly $9.50) CHECKS PAYABLE TO: AERIAL/EDGE, POBOX 25642, Georgetown Station, Washington, DC 20007 or email your order and address and we will bill you with the books. American Whatever Tim Davis 76 pages, ISBN: 1890311170 Tim Davis's idea factory is open 24/7, tossing out paint chips in whatever colour you want, as long as it's frosted cocktail cherry. Like Andy Kaufman slapping Ron Silliman in one of Joe Brainard's "Nancy" cartoons. Is hair tonic really 40% proof? Only your bartender knows for sure. --Miles Champion Tim Davis is, egregiously, haplessly, everything many of us want to be: a person who looked up the word "Flonase" in Ambrose Bierce's dictionary and found a drypoint of his impertinent navel smiling back at him. Perhaps that's where he got the wonderful, Robespierrian idea of reinventing the calendar -- Joseph Ceravolo famously thought a university course should be taught on the seasons, and while we don't know how much serotonin is needed to make "endofmeday" anything less than wonderful, I know I'm sprinting home to rummage through my hope chest to discover which quarter of the Gregorian pie-chart -- Terpsichore, perhaps? -- "The Missing Month" belongs. This American Whatever is the shrapnel of life in sui generous sentences. -- Brian Kim Stefans METROPOLIS XXX: THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE by Rob Fitterman 71 pages, ISBN: 1890311162 Metropolis XXX: The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire drags Edward Gibbon's historical explorations into a parallel morass of today's mass marketing and consumerism, where Roman Art becoms Airbrush, Roman transportation becomes Bubble Wrap, &&&. This single-section is the third book of Fitterman's long poem Metropolis; the other two volumes are Metropolis 1-15 (Sun & Moon Press) and Metropolis 16-29 (Coach House Books). Rob Fitterman apes Edward Gibbon --- but instead of restating the fall of the Roman state in words of his own, Fitterman speaks only in the readymade discourse found by chance, verbatim, amidst the ruins of the imperial, American marketplace. Fitterman teaches us that when in Rome, do as the Ramones do. Clamber to the top of the tallest edifice in the city and, like a king, beat your chest, roaring out against the circling biplanes. History has become the most disquieting infomerical. --Christian Bok Metroplis XXX is, any way you slice it, a 3-D (document/drama/dynamite) surround-sound urbanity of now. What does it mean for an outstanding prosodic precisionist of our time to push craft beyond all limits, to this realm of sheer evidence and acoustics? If twentieth-century verse used quanta for measure, today's is a prosody of "shotgun sequencing," (to quote Craig Venter) where characterization means sales. Fitterman's is the first volume I've seen to embody that challenge. An exhibitionary exuberance of stadium seating, priced to move. -- Stacy Doris For additional information and a complete list of our titles visit www.aerialedge.com. This offer expires. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 01:50:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit come on he's straight enough already if cb didn't write it what would you think then? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 00:10:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Dead Prez and Their Thoughts On Revolution MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/36699.php Dead Prez and Their Thoughts On Revolution What is Revolution? "...When you think of the military or police you don't associate that with violence, but when you see ordinary people with weapons you automatically think of criminals because that's the capital; American system teaching that way of thinking. Revolution is based on the victims of a certain society; government, that recognizes that they are being used and abused by the system and its not in their best interest...." Stic Dead Prez and Their Thoughts On Revolution It's Bigger Than Hip Hop... Public Enemy and X-Clan are often the groups Dead Prez is lumped into a category with. They're classified as a political rappers; activist rappers and alternative rappers. However if the time be taken out one will find that these brothers are not just performing, playing a role or creating or recreating a particular form/genre of rap. Dead Prez have incorporated their politically charged lyrics into their daily works. M1 aka Mutulu Olubala is president of The National People's Democratic Uhuru Movement (NYC branch), a grassroots organization that defends the democratic rights of Africans. M1 as president works with NPDUM to organize clothing drives, community dinners, mass rallies, and political education classes in his community daily. Stic aka Khnum Olubala trains/studies Ile-Ijala (Home of the Spiritual Warrior), an African system of martial arts, in addition to organizing daily in his community. I had the opportunity to build with Dead Prez on current conditions of Africans in Amerikkka and revolution. Question: What does dead prez mean in one sentence. M1: All Power To The People! Stic: We should not accept how shit is, if it's not working for us then we should do something to change it. What is Revolution? M1: Revolution. Where I'm coming from, the critical part of revolutionary struggle is concerned with taking power out of the hands of people who stole it from us from all these years and returning back those resources. It's going to be a conscious world wide struggle with decisive victory won in the area of defeating capitalism and imperialism which is our main enemy. Stic: When people think of revolution they see only one version, which is to be armed with weapons in order to enforce your way of life. When you think of the military or police you don't associate that with violence, but when you see ordinary people with weapons you automatically think of criminals because that's the capital; American system teaching that way of thinking. Revolution is based on the victims of a certain society; government, that recognizes that they are being used and abused by the system and its not in their best interest. When you talk about revolution you're talking about seizing control over the institutions that are oppressing the people such as the court system, police department, military system and educational system all together. Food and all the things needed for life are being exploited and people recognize that you have to have control over these things, so revolution is the process in which you seize that power and are able to get it and keep it. Do you consider yourself a revolutionary? M1: No. I align myself with revolutionary struggle. I would not say I am a revolutionary, that would be arrogant. Yet at the same time you have to have people who consciously recognize themselves as revolutionaries. And there are those people that I know who hold these positions 24 hours a day; on call people who have dedicated their lives for years and years. But, at the same time I'm just trying to do the best I can to forward our struggles. I am a part of this movement. Stic: I'm definitely a worker for that (revolutionary) process. I would like to let my work identify me rather than myself. Of course I identify with the revolutionary process, but that takes a lot discipline, vision, hard work, self-sacrifice and courage that you develop along the path. Question: How does the role you play in this revolutionary movement transgress into your music? M1: Well it's (music) a new form of communication. The tool that transformed the Black Panther Party in 1966 was the Black Panther newspaper. It had a readership similar to what the Source has today. I think that's the role that we are faced with. It (communication) is a very important tool, because that communication can be precise. It can be a weapon and that's how it gets into our music. Dead Prez music is comprehensive of the struggle; of what we learned in and out of the movement. We try and give people a new eyes, you can look at things in a certain perspective, and not recognize exactly where we stand. That's our (Dead Prez) job. That's how it gets into the music. The most popular way to communicate who we dealing with, that's Rap. Rap is talking to everybody at every part of the earth right now. Stic: It started almost 12 years ago, and I didn't consciously set out for the type of music that I'm putting out. As I got older I understood the severity; the effect that music and words have on one's mind. Now that I'm more conscious, I can express any fact through my music. It's not to make you dance (you can listen to any artist for that). I remember when I was in high school, I wrote something for Black History month and the impact that it had on people was remarkable. Parents, teacher, school officials and even the NAACP got involved all because, everyone wanted to know if do I have the right to be saying the things I do. From there I had a responsibility to keep doing what i was doing whether you can can relate to it or not. That's what my motivation is here, seeing that we have to use everything that's out their to solve our problems. Are you happy with what Hip Hop has evolved to or do you think it like the society we live in needs to be revolutionized? M1: I think hip hop is revolution because more than anything else in the world, even more than Lexus cars, even more than platinum chains it (hip hop) manifests the world and is a total reflection of reality. It can manifest itself so clearly as one thing. It can manifest itself as revolutionary. It can't be trapped or contained. Stic: I can't just pinpoint anything in society and just isolate it. I have to look at what exacted hip hop. Once that is done then you can understand what it is. If we want hip hop to be different, then we'll have to change the conditions that produce it. I'm happy that hip hop is continuous and not just financially. But, even though you make a lot of money from it, you can make a lot of money from Crack, but it's fucking up the community and don't produce any life. If a couple of people got some money off it, o.k. but mostly the white people make money off it and the Black people become addicts. The same with hip hop, I don't care about the money, you want the hook up and the travel to communicate, if you have an agenda. That's the good thing. THE ALBUM Explain the title of the album; "Let's Get Free". M1: What the title does is bring you into the recognition that if you think you free, they're obviously people out there who know that they're not. So then apparently there's a choice that has got to be made. You either need to investigate that or you're fine. And if it makes you chose a side it does so in a non aggressive way. I think its (the album title) not a turn off it's talking to the masses of those it does appeal to. I think it evokes curiosity in people who don't see that sentiment and don't think its true. Stic: In alot of ways we are free but's thats only in day to day living. We are not free in the sense the fear of doing what needs to be done or the fear of the responsibility of life. Sometimes when people say we are oppressed, we are enslaved, people say that's negative but really that's just semantics. Today I am free that's why I struggle and resist oppression. I don't need anyone to tell me when to eat or lock me up for something they think I did. Politically I beg to differ in the views of freedom. We are victims of a capitalist system. As workers we are exploited. As people we have no power over our own lives. No self-determination and no ability to reproduce the things we need for ourselves. So we are dependent in people who historically have beaten us, jailed us, lied to us etc. I don't see any freedom in that. In the artic where the indigenous people sometimes might hunt a wolf they'll take a double edge blade and they'll put blood on the blade and melt the ice and stick the handle in the ice so only the blade is protruding. And that a wolf who smells the blood and wants to eat will come and lick the blade trying to eat and what happens is when the wolf licks the blade he cuts his tongue and he bleeds and he thinks he's really having a good meal and he drinks, and he licks and licks and of course he's drinking his own blood and he kills himself. - Wolves (1st track on "Let's Get Free"). Stic: That's the Chairman Omali from NPDUM (National Peoples Democratic Uhuru Movement) speaking. It's about brothers having to hustle because they don't have any money or opportunities that we're aware of. The government pumps crack into the community to keep brothers down, such as the Black Panthers, etc. Brothers feel its a bright idea when they see they could get $50 from this little piece of glass rock product. When you're able to eat when yesterday you wasn't, thats a real self-esteem booster. That's a really hard thing to come down on people, but they feel like their actually doing something for themselves but the effect is like a wolf licking a blade, he's tasting the blood but he don't realize that its his own blood. He's so blood thirsty, so hungry to eat. It's not the wolfs fault, he got to eat just like everybody else, he's been tricked into thinking the blade is opportunity. Brothers are tricked into thinking that Crack-Cocaine is our opportunity and we're licking the blade and the blood we're tasting is us in prison, getting shot at parties and living in a military state. The Chairman says we need to blame the hunter, the CIA, government; the people who set us up in these conditions and robbed us from Africa and have been living off of us since we got here; the people who really benefit from the drug trade. The same crack-cocaine after a few years don't start to look better, it looks fucked up. So the money is going somewhere, could it be for more police officers? weapons? and all the new sophisticated technology? That's what the intro to the album is represents. To look at things for what they really are and stop licking the blade and start using it. M1: The analogy of the blade, it stands out stark. The chairman states, I'm not a hunter but I've been told. It alludes to the hunt, the hunter and the hunted. And even when there is no hunter present you find that there these generated genocidal things. I think this is a great analogy because it doesn't but the blame on the people. A lot of times we always blame the people. "I'm a African never was a African American." - I'm a African (2nd track, "Let's Get Free") M1: If you study Malcolm, he said he couldn't be American. "He was a victim of Americanism, because if he was an American they (America) wouldn't sick their dogs on you. If you was American you would have rights." We're not American, that's the primary reason we go through what we're going through. If you attach the name American to you, then you must also be attaching the legacy of slave masters. We don't have that legacy at all. To call yourself an African-American is silly. When we was stolen from Africa we got on the boat Africans, so how the hell we gonna get off the boat Americans. I think the identity with Africa will help us see where our world resources are. We think we are poor, but we are rich. We are rich not only in history and culture, but in unity we have the richest land mass that we are all a part of. Stic: The term African American has no meaning really because the name has changed. In the past it was Afro-American, before that Negro, before that it was Nigger, and somewhere in between it was just Black. We know that Africa is where our ancestors originated. Human life on this planet is the descendants of the people from the continent (Africa). Whether you from Haiti, Puerto Rico, Jamaica, any place on the planet, this (Africa) is our rightful home, it was robbed from us, it was and always will be the home of black people. The state is this organized bureaucracy, it is the police dept., it is the army, the navy, it is the prison system, the courts. The state is a repressive organization... The police become necessary in human society at the junction in human society where there is a split between those who have and those who don't. - Police State (5th track, "Let Get Free"). M1: People don't recognize the state because its an abstract. The state emerges itself in the material world when you begin to try and get power. If you want to get food stamps you got to go the state or to be a part of program that want to help or assist your well being. Its the state that monitors all those resources. It's the state that steps between a domestic dispute against a man and women, the state puts police in schools, the state is what comes in and takes children away from their parents. It's a repressive organization especially when you talk about getting power in your own hands. The state would be the first people who arrive at your front door to tell you in one form or another that you can't have it (power). The state works for rich people. Those who control the state are those who run all institutions, schools; gov't buildings; and major commercial institutions. If there were no classes there would be no reason for state. If we all shared alike there would be no need for this all together body who comes and represents one interest of one class. Stic: Police State explains who the police are, because people get caught up in the television version of police in society. In every society that you live in there's an Uncle Tom, for N.Y.C. it's Al Sharpton. People say we need to fire the crooked cops and may pinpoint one or two. Chairman Omali says, whether you lock me up nicely or beat my ass and lock me up, you're still locking me up. The reason for that is some people have and some people don't, which requires the people that don't have nothing to have to resort to breaking (the rules of) the people who have shit. The people who have shit are making these rules because they wanna keep the shit that they have and their not trying to share, but what they got they got from what they're accusing you of. If you break into a bank because you need money, or go into a grocery store for a piece of bread because you're hungry the police will call you a thief. But, they stole us from Africa, stole our labor, still stealing from us by paying us minimum wage while the companies are making millions of dollars. So the bottom line is officers fake friendly or the real raw deal vice squad that role like terrorist are here to keep the people at the bottom of society. They are the armed forces in our communities that kill young black teenagers and say the Crips and Bloods do it (gang bangin'). What impact do you see Dead Prez having on the people? Stic: How much impact has the people had on us is the question. I feel that the interaction that I've had with people is what's gonna be expressed in my lyrics. I'm just thankful that I had the opportunity to reflect the view of others and get the people to interact with us because you know we're not perfect and maybe if others can relate to our music then we can all learn something. __________________ Nov 2, 2004 "Black Solidarity Day" marks 25 yrs of freedom for our Comrade Assata Shakur, Our Warrior was liberated from a NJ prison by Comrades In The Black Liberation Army click here to read more http://www.assatashakur.org/ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 03:12:48 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Happy New Year's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Poem, oops. Right. Dear friends - Now it's your turn to give the orders. All right, I said. Tell me to put my hands up. Plunge your hand in water up to the wrist; Gaze into & note what it is you soon will miss The glacier knocks in the oil tanker the desert sighs in my head, And the crack in the gas tank opens a lane to the land of the dead. Happy New Year's! I'm about to head out with the boys on patrol. Happy New Year's! In about an hour we will be hit by an ambush. Happy New Year's. This is the last letter I will every write you. Happy New Year's. The absence of my right hand is not the right hand of absence. Happy New Year's. My boss tells me you can fool enough of the people all of the time. Happy New Year's. Someone said something about freedom. Should my old right hand be lost can it not be brought to mind? Should my old right hand be lost we'll take a shot of kindness yet And here's a hand, my trusted friend, in the dirt, and give a hand of yours You took a shot of kindness yet And you're dead face down in the dirt. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Herron [mailto:patrick@proximate.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:02 PM To: 'patrick@proximate.org' I received some unfortunate news yesterday. My friend Jon Kuniholm serving in Iraq (http://www.asmenews.org/features/1204iraq.html, http://tinyurl.com/6r9kj) was seriously wounded during an ambush while on patrol New Year's Day and lost his right hand and much of his right arm. He survived thankfully but neither his right hand not his right hand man didn't make it. Jon's on his way home and everything will be done to ensure that his arm will be treated with the best of care.... Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 03:30:44 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: sexiest.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit straight or gay kissing ass ain't a pretty site.... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 03:37:14 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jihad 'a fucking machine' not "a fuckin' machine" in freezing rain alternate side out 3:30...if i had a poetry club....i'd bludgeon...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 03:54:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Paul Naylor's email? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Would someone please b/c me with Paul Naylor's email? thank you... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 00:20:13 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: A neglected poet: Sean Rafferty MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jon I enjoyed this - if this poet can be compared to Marvell he is an extraordinary poet - there is something magical and intense about Marvell -somethng marvelous - the joke is inevitable - But 'The Garden' I just re-read it, it is a great poem. Your Scottish poet is also subtle with words and syntax - I was amused by "a war the surrealists won " ! The surrealists also seemed to have had a hand since that time - well we can go back to 9/11 but probably earlier. Very interesting stuff here. Thanks. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Corelis" To: Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 5:30 PM Subject: A neglected poet: Sean Rafferty A great poet, I think, can not be defined, but can always be recognized. Typical characteristics may include the ability to speak of private joy or misery with universal validity, a voice which vividly incarnates its owner's personality in every line, an unstrained mastery of all the various linguistic and cultural traditions of which any poet is the product, and perhaps most telling of all, a dawning awareness on the part of the reader that here are poems not so much to be read as to be lived with. The Scottish poet Sean Rafferty by all these criteria is unmistakably a great poet. At the time of his death in 1993 he had published very little, though his poetry won the admiration of such important poets as Ted Hughes and Sorley MacLean, and the posthumous issuance of his collected poems by the prestigious British publisher Carcanet attracted little attention. Such neglect is incomprehensible, since his poetry surely evinces all the qualities of greatness which I have just mentioned. The universalizaton of personal grief, one of the oldest and most important functions of poetry, is achieved with heartbreaking success in a group of early pieces on loss which, like most of his poems, are untitled. Here, for example, are some verses on the death of the poet's first wife in 1945: In May the month of miracle flower on the black bough flower on the green leaf; in May the flower the frost the fall the month of May is all my grief. The white hawthorn the lilac massed to dwarf my mourning where I passed; they were like alien angels come before their time to greet her home Too early come the cruel frost that claimed my love too early lost their promise for a tribute gave and wept their flowers into her grave. We can discern behind the seemingly artless accents of these lines a characteristic diction and technique which is learnedly traditional yet staunchly modernistic: that second stanza would not seem out place in Frost, nor would the third in Marvell, yet they still seem easily compatible with each other. Also typical of this poet is the slight, deliberate idiosyncrasy of syntax and punctuation -- for instance, the lack of a verb in the first three lines of the first stanza, the omitted commas in the next two lines, and the lack of a conjunction in the first line of the next stanza -- minor and deliberate irregularities which give a startling extra dimension to the poetic voice, a voice which expresses, with intense emotion under utter control, a vision in which the external world becomes not merely symbolic of the poet's emotions, but fused into identity with them, as for instance in the image of the flowering trees which dwarf human pain. Similar qualities distinguish Rafferty's several poems on the lost innocence of childhood, of which 'On the green hill of childhood keep...' I would rank with Dylan Thomas's 'Fern Hill' as one of our definitive statements of the theme. It is very hard not to quote the whole of this wonderful poem, but perhaps its ending lines will suggest how Rafferty has achieved the miracle of writing about childhood with deep feeling unmarred by sentimentality, as well as how skillfully he can give his poems added intellectual resonance by positioning them within specific traditions, in this case by deft allusions to Marvell's The Garden: Run where you will you cannot trespass, if you fall you fall only where grass is soft; though ripe fruits reach into your mouth they do not tempt but teach a simple lesson and no sin to eat: the sloe how bitter but the bramble sweet. (Compare Marvell: What wondrous life is this I lead! Ripe apples drop about my head; The luscious clusters of the vine Upon my mouth do crush their wine; The nectarine and curious peach Into my hands themselves do reach; Stumbling on melons as I pass, Ensnared with flowers, I fall on grass.) The timelessness of much of Rafferty's verse is demonstrated in an elegiac ballad on old William Woolsery, which could almost have been written at anytime in the past four centuries but which does not sound in the least artificially archaic. "An old man mumbling in a public bar" (these poems seem full of old men and they are all tough and touchy and flawed and kind and beautiful) gives us one of our literature's classic statements on the sameness of all wars: it is what "The Battle of Blenheim" might have been if "The Battle of Blenheim" were not ghastly. War is also the theme of "1945" and "1959," which present a horrifying vision of past and present hellishly jumbled together both physically and culturally in the urban landscape of London after World War II, which Rafferty unforgettably calls "a war the surrealists won." It must not be thought, however, that such melancholy themes exhaust Rafferty's poetic range: he is also capable of producing some of the most splendid comic verse of the century. High points of his work in this manner include "A Near Thing," a sort of combination of P. G. Wodehouse and Noel Coward with a touch of Samuel Beckett, and "Liebestod," perhaps the most puzzlingly hilarious poem in English since "The Aged Aged Man," which gives us among much else the (deliberately Betjemanesque?) lines: Simile to me, smile to me speak with your smile to me, speak to me over the din; Oh how I wish I was oiling your bicycle then we could go for a spin That, like all high comic verse, stays funny no matter how many times you read it. I hope these samples will at least make defensible my contention that this poet, who is in none of the major reference works or anthologies, belongs in them all. [Sean Rafferty's poetry is available in Britain from Etruscan Press at http://www.seaham.i12.com/etruscan/ and in the U.S from Small Press Distributors at http://www.spdbooks.org/] ===================================== Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org www.geocities.com/joncpoetics ===================================== ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 00:29:05 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Bernstein Siliman Antin The Language Poets The Invasion of Afgahinistan Perloff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This I feel is an important discussion - I repeat it here - there is = lot to be said on this and related, and ok some views here are a bit = extreme - but it is an indicator of one way that the Language poets are = being seen -and some of the pitfalls that language poetry etc can lead = into (or perhaps we lead ourselves by toomuh limitig our deifinitions = of whoa and what constitues a lnaguage poet - the term is not = particularly specific (its perhaps convenient if imprecise) - the = interview below was something a bit off the cuff event (I wasn't there - = and I haven't reproduced it in full) and not one of those "considered" = things - but does - I think - still shed some light - if only on one = "angle' and the lightof a few "viewers" or readers of language poetry - = of course it is only a few peoples' views - note that some of the = language poets - Bernstein at least appeared in the predecessor to = "Brief" (in which the interview below was published ) when it was "A = Brief History of the Whole World" edited by Alan Loney (who has since = left NZ), the second editor, John Geraets - widened the scope of the = journal, and its present editor Jack Ross widened it further but I feel = the quality is still there and also its relatively "innovative" nature = eg I put an entirely hand written thing in which was part of a book = length - poem - the book and the poem really cant be separated - a no = beginning no ending..with no full stops and does start with a capital, = kind of flows like a river - intuitive, ingenious, from my deep = subconscious genius (!), a one off book that was "intended" to be only = in the particular note book I had it in (literally only this one - = totally unique (what is unique? - everything or nothing?) - material = object in the Universe - and out side of that and not in my hand = writing it is another book) - a kind of (first) edition - a totally = unique edition - people said the idea was good !! Ideas - and the = contributors are - and always have been a varied lot - although = initially Wystan Curnow and others formed a more or less closed group = "The Writers Group" and it went basically - although I subscribed from = the beginning - to each of them and the editor published everything they = all contributed - and thus this relatively innovative and unusual = writing - given the small number of lit mags in NZ was able to start) - = and that was ok - but the format changed a little after Alan Loney left = for Australia. Wystan Curnow (who many of the people in the language = poetic and "postmodern" scene may know) has just won an award in NZ for = his contributions to Art and Literature - and has also begun a new Art = Gallery in central Auckland.=20 Here is the original message again that got overlooked as it was in = with a lot of trivia about Bernstein's poem/reading being "sexy" etc Someone in reference to Bernstein's "sexy" poem was lamenting that = people claim to understand language poetry but they don't really and so = on, or they hate it and shouldn't -that maybe: but here are some = thoughts on language poetry and some of the Language poets - There is no question that Charles Bernstein is a brilliant poet - I = recall studying his poem that started: On a broad plane on a universe of anterooms, making signals in the dark, you fall down on your waistband & carrying your own plate, a last serving, set out for another glimpse of a gaze. In a room Even in that short start to "Matters of Policy" ( a book that has a = kind of political subtext and other things going on.) - there is a lot to think about - the "cosmicness" is undercut shortly as the poem progresses but = there are already "references ", puns, multiplex meanings etc - eg = "waist band" might be a code for "The Waste Land", 'ante' may be a pun = (for anti) .The "gaze" has smooth to do with Baudrillard -haven't read = anything by him but the term "the gaze - supposedly from an idea of = Baudrillard's - is very much used in poetics discussions these days...). The title is multiplex in meaning or at least in its stance, its connotations - other poems by Bernstein - in the book the poem was in = -had fragmented sentences (it seems possible to connect the fragments = sometimes - but it becomes like a complex sematic jig saw puzzle that is perhaps - = is hopefully - unsolvable: (the poetic tactic against "clarity" or "transparency") and there some fascinating insights, and ideas - so I = was very interested and still am in what the language poets (and their descendents and fellow travellers) -if they can be put in any "box" - = were (are) doing. I 'introduced' some of my younger friends to "language poetry" and my = friend Scott Hamilton took a great interest in Coolidge and the poem = that goes "trilobites trilobite" (in "In the American Tree") and so on = and the discussion on the "New Sentence" by Silliman (backgrounded by concepts = from Stein etc) - I was very keen on Ron Silliman's work such as = "Tjanting" "Paradise" and others - and also we liked the critical writing of Perloff -in fact Scott got into reading Wittgenstein from reading "Wittgenstein's Ladder" by Perloff. We also found Antin's "talk poems" = very interesting as an experience and a method - BUT In 2001 it seemed that Perloff's support of the invasion of Afghanistan = (to make sure that America wasn't destroyed and then we wouldn't have any culture in the US to talk about: that is kill the Arabs before they = destroy the greatland of poetry -war for poetry seemed to be her idea...) and = some of Antin's responses were worrying - he talked of (or seemed to be = talking of) exterminating the Arabs - made some remarks that they were "rats' = to be got rid of and so on (I'm feel sure he made such remarks but it = was some time ago, the details may be quite wrong ... but I'm certain = that was the tenor of some of the ideas expressed by these leading = language poets) - and that was 2001 and not long after S/11 and = everyone was a bit crazy - I know it affected me here even in New = Zealand: in fact it kind of re-politicised me. Scott moved toward = Marxist politics and said he couldn't now read Silliman's work knowing = his political views - now I feel that was rather extreme - but here is = an interview or part of it published recently in NZ magazine called Brief where views on the language poets (and other = matters) are thrown around - I feel Scott is a bit hard on Silliman - as = far as I know Hamish hasn't looked at epc for a while and maybe Andrews = has shifted his "Marxist " positions etc But here is the excerpt: -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- ------------------------ Hamish: For me, landscape is always something which is inanimate. And = it is usually malign...remember, I moved about in China itself, moved = from the sticks to the coast and took jobs teaching English, without the = literature thing. Finished my Masters' thesis off in China. Scott: Bruce Andrews? Hamish: Bruce Andrews. Scott: What'd you end up thinking about his work? It might not have = been so bad studying a poet of dissonance and disjunction in such an = alien environment. Hamish: Well, Andrews is working with the violence and dissonance of American society. Social breakdown, breakdowns in communication. Often = he works by writing down phrases he hears, overhears, and tries to shape = them, relate them, without necessarily making 'sense'. The question is = whether he is not simply reproducing the violence that gives him his = material...The Language poets offer us a whole range of models, formal = models, but I don't see the need to accept the programme, to buy the = whole package. Take what you can use. I particularly like Susan Howe. Scott: I agree with that attitude. Some of the critical writing of Ron Silliman, for instance, is incredibly dogmatic. He almost outlaws = everything except his 'New Sentence'. A particular form is fetishised as = oppositional, subversive yadaya, but the impact of any literary form always depends on context. After a few books of Silliman's I felt that a rhymed sonnet = would be more subversive than another 'new' sentence. And of course the only people who were using the new revolutionary formula happened to live in = the richest societies in the world. So the form was imperiocentric. This is bit glib - and assumes eg that language poetry is or was always = 'subversive' (without explaining how - the problem for me was not The = New Sentence per se - but _how_ it was oppositional or "subversive:and = more perhaps why such a form was"challenging" as opposed to say "The = New Paragraph" especially if paragraphs are 'more emotional' than = sentences - but haven't read The New Sentence for some time...someone = may have some ideas on these things) but also I'm not sure that the = comment "form always depends on context" is relevant here or right, or = quite put in the right way - but it leads to the next part of the = interview. I'll leave that in - just noticed that in fact Scott says: = "The _ impact _ of form always depends on context" and that is more to = the mark perhaps... Hamish: I can't comment on Silliman, but Andrews has a solid background = in Marxism, political economy. He's hardcore. That's one of the things = that makes him interesting...but Silliman, I've never been that into him...a = bit dry? Scott: I thought the bankruptcy of Silliman and one or two others - = David Antin and Marjorie Perloff are names that come to mind - was shown after = S/11, when they suddenly morphed into unpaid military advisors to George Dubya. Hamish: Really? On the EPC list? I haven't checked that for years... Scott: If you were against the invasion of Afghanistan Silliman called = you an appeaser. The enemy was Islamofascism. Antin actually talked about = rats, and having to do an extermination job...understandable responses = from ordinary Americans, maybe, but not quite what you'd expect from the Patriachs of the Oppositional Word. Hamish: Most of the Chinese that I talked to had little sympathy with = the US after S 11. In fact many were happy. They saw it as the US getting = paid back a little for what it's done so often. If the US ever invades China, = it will make Iraq look like a cakewalk. The Chinese would just run out of = their homes and fight the US troops, with anything they've got. Forks and = knives off the table if they had nothing else. They hate America. Scott: You've written academic or semi-academic stuff on other people? Hamish: Leigh Davis, a couple of pieces, the second of which takes = issue with the commodification of language in his work...I'm keen on Joanna = Paul and have written a bit on her. I'm interested in anyone who's = experimenting with language in a disciplined manner. Innovative but also crafted work. Scott: Do you value craft above inspiration, or vice versa, or is the opposition too old-fashioned to be bothered about? Hamish: Inspiration is a craft. Next question. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- ------------------------- I am not quite in complete accord with Scott - he forces the argument = for the interview - but am with him in the main points made. Richard Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 06:53:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed "When critics disagree, the artist is in accord with himself." --Oscar Wilde ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 07:48:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: new x-stitch visual poem Comments: To: FrancoBe@aol.com, jani@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, lcucullu@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, manowak@stkate.edu, gfcivil@stkate.edu, edcohen@rci.rutgers.edu, susanlannen@hotmail.com, rjohnson2092@mn.rr.com, CWLantz@cbburnet.com, Maclore.Pennington@navitaire.com, rita@ritamarr.com, riarunkee@yahoo.com, Kristina.Jantz@bestbuy.com, Deirdra.Hoolahan@co.hennepin.mn.us, abigaillpelham@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" thanks to mIEKAL aND's SPIDERTANGLE website and his web savvy, a new x-stitch visual poem from me at: http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/damon10.html -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:27:30 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Guy Davenport. In-Reply-To: <000001c4f3b1$6c878c00$963a5786@diogenes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thought the following appropriate to post: Guy Davenport on Wittgenstein Wittgenstein before he came to philosophy was a mathematician, an architect, a sculptor, a mechanical engineer, a grade-school teacher, a soldier, and an aviator. He could have followed any of these careers doubtless with brilliant success; just before he came to Cambridge (they gave him a doctorate at the door) he was strongly inclined to ``be an aeronaut.'' Every account of his strange life indicates that he tried to teach. He did not dine with the faculty, as the faculty in all its grandeur always dines in academic gowns, black shoes, and neck tie. Wittgenstein was forever tieless and wore a suede jacket that opened and closed with that marvelous invention: the zipper; and his shoes were brown. He held his lectures in his rooms, in the continental manner. As there was no furniture except an army cot, a folding chair, a safe (for the Zettel), and a card table, the students brought their own chairs. Philosophy classrooms in our century have frequently been as dramatic as stages: Santayana, Samuel Alexander, Bergson --- men of passionate articulateness whose lectures fell on their students like wind and rain. But Wittgenstein, huddled in silence on his chair, stammered quietly from time to time. He was committed to absolute honesty. Nothing --- nothing at all --- was to escape analysis. He had nothing up his sleeve; he had nothing to teach. The world was an absolute puzzle, a great lump of opaque pig iron. Can we think about the lump? What is thought? What is the meaning of can, can we, of can we think? What is the meaning of we? If we answer these questions on Monday, are the answers valid on Tuesday? If I answer them at all, do I think the answer, believe the answer, know the answer, or imagine the answer? It was apparently not of the least interest to Wittgenstein that Plato had answered certain questions that philosophers need to ask, or that Kant or Mencius had answered them. He sometimes liked other philosophers' questions; he seems never to have paid any attention to their answers. Truth was stubborn; Wittgenstein was stubborn; and neither faced the other down. We have to look back to the stoic Musonius to find another man so nakedly himself, so pig-headedly single-minded. He actually taught very little of his life. He was forever going off into the Norwegian forests, to Russia, to the west of Ireland where --- and this is all we know of these solitudes --- he taught the Connemara birds to come and sit in his hands. He mastered no convention other than speech, wearing clothes, and --- grudgingly and with complaint --- the symbols of mathematics. The daily chores of our life were wonders to him, and when he participated in them they became as strange as housekeeping among the Bantu. ... Wittgenstein did not argue; he merely thought himself into subtler and deeper problems The record which three of his students have made of his lectures and conversations at Cambridge discloses a man tragically honest and wonderfully, astoundingly absurd. In every memoir of him we meet a man we are hungry to know more about, for even if his every sentence remains opaque to us, it is clear that the archaic transparency of his thought is like nothing that philosophy has seen for thousands of years. It is also clear that he was trying to be wise and to make others wise. He lived in the world, and for the world. He came to believe that a normal, honest human being could not be a professor. It is the academy that gave him his reputation of impenetrable abstruseness; never has a man deserved a reputation less. Disciples who came to him expecting to find a man of incredibly deep learning found a man who saw mankind held together by suffering alone, and he invariably advised them to be as kind as possible to others. He read, like all inquisitive men, to multiply his experiences. He read Tolstoy (always getting bogged down) and the Gospels and bales of detective stories. He shook his head over Freud. When he died, he was reading Black Beauty. His last words were: ``Tell them I've had a wonderful life.'' -- Guy Davenport from The Geography of the Imagination from Charles A. Ralston's website: "arrived the morning of Tuesday 4 January 2005, in Lexington, Kentucky at the University of Kentucky Lucille Parker Markey Cancer Center. He was in his 77th year, born 23 November 1927 in Anderson, South Carolina. He was the kindest, most thoughtful, most considerate person I ever have known. His intelligence was his vision of a world he shared willingly and joyously with anyone curious enough to ask a question or bold enough to share his own view of a story, a painting, a drawing. Nature loves to hide, the professor said over and over, reminding us of Heraclitus. To be interested in any one thing will lead one eventually to be interested in many things. The most beautiful image to our eyes is often a random gathering of objects. The highest form of criticism of a work of art is -- another work of art made in response to former. In nearness is chaos; distance provides balance and clarity (to our human relations). The heart is comfortable with the familiar, the known; the intelligence with the strange and unknown. Above all, with apologies to Confucius and Uncle Ez, each day strive to 'make it new'. The informed writers and poets of our time in due course will write encomia about Guy Davenport and critical essays about his work. But, the cats living in Lexington's Bell Court today will have to find another curious professor with whom to share their thoughts." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:59:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: new x-stitch visual poem Comments: To: damon001@UMN.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline That's excellent Maria. I particularly like "Reveal Codes" and "tiny arkhive." My daughter Clio looked at them with me, watching each one unfold and making comments: "I think it's for an aisle" ("x (exoxial) stitch) and asking sensible questions: "How long does that take?" -- the latter informed by her own keen interest in weaving & knitting. Happy New Year! Mairead >>> damon001@UMN.EDU 01/06/05 8:48 AM >>> thanks to mIEKAL aND's SPIDERTANGLE website and his web savvy, a new x-stitch visual poem from me at: http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/damon10.html -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:01:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:05:16 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: progressive donors in times of crisis (tsunami/earthquakes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There'd been talk of tsunamis/earthquakes, so I post the following.. Friends, Having previously directed a progressive aid organization, Grassroots International, I'm often asked who I would donate to in a humanitarian disaster such as the present one. Several years ago, prompted by GDAE Co-director Neva Goodwin, I wrote up some guidelines for how I think progressive people in the US should think about helping in such crises. I revised it very slightly and I attach it to this message in the event you might find it useful. I also forward below Grassroots International's current appeal, which is a creative and thoughtful application of the kinds of principles I outline. Grassroots does not have programs in the region, and to its credit it is not ambulance-chasing by pretending it does. Instead it is helping the international farmers' organization, Via Campesina, raise funds for the relief efforts of its local affiliates in the affected region.=20 Please circulate this as you see fit. Tim Wise Tsunami Aid: Support Fisherfolk and Peasant Communities' Grassroots Relief Efforts Indonesia's National Federation of Peasant Organizations (FSPI) and Sri Lanka's National Organization of Fisherfolk (NAFSO) have organized rescue and relief teams in Aceh and North Sumatra Indonesia and in isolated communities in Sri Lanka. Other local organizations of fisherpeople, farmers, and indigenous people around the rim of the Indian Ocean are launching similar efforts in their own home towns. With decades of community work, they have built strong, representative membership organizations in their communities. These organizations can make sure aid is used not to deepen poverty and dependency, but to build viable rural livelihoods. Their on-the-ground networks make them good candidates to relieve logistical bottlenecks and navigate complex politics; they have an agility and a knowledge of the local scene that no international aid organization can match. Grassroots International, with over 20 years of experience in progressive international development and human rights work is proud to support their life-giving and social change efforts. Go to:=20 http://www.guidestar.org/controller/searchResults.gs?action_donateReport=3D= 1&partner=3Dnetworkforgood&ein=3D04-2791159 Make sure to include the word Tsunami in the memo line. =20 FSPI and NAFSO are members of the Via Campesina, the global alliance of peasant, family farmer, farm worker, indigenous and landless peoples organizations, and other rural movements. The Via Campesina has asked Grassroots International to help provide emergency support to their member organizations. Go to: http://www.grassrootsonline.org/give_main.html to donate by check or by phone.=20 As the relief and reconstruction work continues, we will bring you updates from the field. Check back here at Grassroots Journal for the latest information. Go to: http://www.grassrootsonline.org/weblog/grijournal.html To read the Grassroots Journal Grassroots International promotes global justice through partnerships with social change organizations. We work to advance political, economic and social rights and support development alternatives through grantmaking, education and advocacy. We are supported entirely by tax-deductible private donations. Humanitarian Crises: What is a Progressive to Do? Some guidelines for progressive donors By Timothy A. Wise Progressive-minded people who want to contribute to humanitarian aid efforts too often abandon their progressive principles, particularly in crisis situations. Why? They want to help, and they want to do so quickly. And they focus on the service-delivery =E2=80=93 food rations, medicines, shelter =E2=80=93 rather than the service deliverers. Natural enough, when people are starving in front of you on your television every night. The problem is that aid goes not to projects or services but first to service providers, the agencies themselves. And aid is power. Those who get more aid end up stronger than those who don't. The issue that I think progressive-minded people should always keep in mind is how their donation is affecting the relative power of different groups involved in a crisis situation. In other words, when the crisis is over, who do you want to be stronger as an institution, and therefore better able to address or avert such crises in the future? Here are a few guidelines I like to use: 1.=09Support agencies that build local capacities and institutions=E2=80=93= Some aid agencies, including most of the largest and best-known in the US, are "operational", that is, they set up offices in-country and provide services themselves, often hiring large numbers of local residents to work for them. Operational agencies often weaken local institutions, drawing qualified staff out of relatively weak local organizations.=20 This is true even if there is a fair amount of skill and/or technology-transfer in the process, because the transfer is individual rather than institutional. By contrast, some aid agencies work primarily through local partner institutions. Wherever possible, support those. 2.=09If possible, support institutions whose involvement pre-dates the crisis =E2=80=93 There are a lot of ambulance-chasers in crisis-response wo= rk. Those who arrive late lack strong local ties, are often culturally insensitive, and don't really know how to get things done. By contrast, agencies that have been working with local groups on non-crisis activities are well-grounded, sensitive, and can get things done. 3.=09Support privately funded initiatives =E2=80=93 The US government is th= e largest aid provider in this country and it now contracts much of that work out to US-based aid agencies. More than half the budgets of most of the largest US-based aid agencies come from the US government. So what? Well, first, your money is relatively less important to such efforts, which tend to be multimillion-dollar activities. Second, those agencies naturally tend to be accountable mainly to the US government, not to its private donors or, more important, to the local community it serves. Third, official US aid programs are among the most political in the world, hewing to State Department objectives and guidelines first and humanitarian guidelines and needs second (or third or fourth). USAID brags that 75% of all its aid comes back to the US =E2=80=93 paying US consultants, buying US products, etc. Is that w= hat you want to support? This doesn't mean all US-government-funded aid is bad; not at all. But you as a donor have a choice. Why choose that? 4.=09Small is beautiful =E2=80=93 The aid industry is dominated by the larg= est agencies, which compete for and win government contracts and can then spend massive amounts of money promoting themselves to the US public highlighting how low their overhead is. Of course, their overhead is low because they're getting multimillion-dollar US contracts. You have a choice; why strengthen the largest and strongest groups? Many of the smaller and lesser-known agencies do great work. And the last thing Rwanda or Haiti needs are aid agencies with more resources and power in-country than the government. 5.=09Be internationalist =E2=80=93 In addition to supporting small, private= ly funded, partner-oriented activities, consider agencies with strong international ties to other such agencies. European and Canadian agencies, including some of the largest ones, are much more progressive and effective in practice than their US counterparts.=20 Oxfam US, for example, is part of a large and growing network of Oxfam International affiliates who co-fund each other's work in areas where each is strong. The partnership model is much more common in Europe and Canada than it is here. And their governments do not put the same kinds of strings on aid as USAID does. 6.=09Medical aid in a crisis is often more important than food, shelter, or other assistance =E2=80=93 Why? Food and other goods are needed on a sc= ale so massive it is difficult to have much of an impact with a private donation. It usually comes from governments and international agencies. Local public-health institutions, however, which are often weak and underfunded to begin with, are always overwhelmed in a crisis. Refugee camps and feeding centers are breeding grounds for disease, which usually take more lives than starvation or exposure (though they are obviously related). 7.=09Think beyond the immediate crisis =E2=80=93 Where possible, look for g= roups that will stay with the issue and the people after the headlines (and the funding streams) die down. 8.=09If you find a good agency, consider making a long-term commitment to it =E2=80=93 Crisis-driven funding makes nonprofit aid agencies difficul= t to manage. It also often leads agencies to focus on crisis-response work at the expense of long-term local institution-building, which is the most important work of all but the hardest to fund. Long-term support for such work is the hardest find. If you like the work you see during the crisis, you'll probably like the agency's other work as well. Support it with a multi-year commitment. 9.=09Last (but usually first on donors' minds) support agencies that make effective use of funds =E2=80=93 Overhead is not the only issue here, = or the most important. Look for a track record of accountability. Make sure there is the capacity to carry out what's being promised. (January 2005 revision of a May 1999 paper.) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:09:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: andrew loewen Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think it’s a fine poem and I’m not interested in knocking it, but I don’t think it’s remotely “cutting edge,” nor do I think it took much bravery or courage to write. And I’m inclined to agree with Steve that there’s some name-power behind its force (and while I greatly admire the Language movement (and Bernstein), as a young man (26) and an outsider, I find claims for the validity and/or efficacy of the movement’s (or scene’s) critique of identity, authority, etc, quite inexplicable)). This said, it clearly meant a lot to you Mr. Conrad, and that is wonderful and I’m glad you’ve expressed your delight. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:14:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Tiffany's tsunami.art MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Tiffany's tsunami.art warning large .mov file 21 meg TSUnami.arttra.imanUST.mov http://www.asondheim.org/ust.mov to be played slow and often otherwise miss the features donate what you can the rapture never comes _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:38:24 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: Formating Chapbook In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mIEKAL wrote: >>If yr serious about publishing InDesign is majorly worth the money & the time needed to learn how to make your design ideas speak.<< I would second that, though Pagemaker, either 6.5 or 7, is also good and a little easier to master. It also comes with a built-in booklet-making utility. Cheers! Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 18:45:17 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laura oliver Subject: FW: [ARTS Ed]USF's Online Literary Journal's Call for Submissions Comments: To: poetics-talk@yahoogroups.com, genealexander@att.net, raeppley@aol.com, ninaschuyler@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Rosita Nunes <rkn@nine9ths.com> >Reply-To: "Non-Profit-Arts & Education Network" <aen@lists.mcn.org> >To: aen@lists.mcn.org >Subject: [ARTS Ed]USF's Online Literary Journal's Call for Submissions >Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 06:04:46 -0800 >SWITCHBACK — Call for Submissions — Second Issue, "Confession vs. >Mask" > >The editors of SWITCHBACK are now accepting submissions for our >second issue. The theme is "Confession vs. Mask," writing that >explores the presence or absence of the narrator or author. Writers >play with authorial voice in different ways, hiding or exploiting >their own attitudes and experiences, exploring not only the realms >of the characters, but the idea of the author as character, >storyteller, or critic. We're seeking fiction, nonfiction, and >poetry in a variety of narrative voices and styles, as well as short >critical essays that present one perspective on the topic >"Confession vs. Mask." > >The deadline for submissions is February 21, 2005. > >GENERAL GUIDELINES: >We prefer pieces that have not been previously published. >Simultaneous submissions are acceptable, although please inform us >if you have sent your piece elsewhere. Due to the online nature of >the magazine, shorter pieces are preferred (1,000-3,000 words or >less), although longer pieces of exceptional writing will also be >considered. >All critical essays must address the topic "Confession vs. Mask" and >be less than 2,000 words. Works in other genres are not required to >address the topic. Submissions should be sent as standard text in >the body of an email with the genre (fiction, nonfiction, critical >essay, or poetry) in the subject line to: submissions at swback >dotcom. > >Due to the process of blind selection, include your name in the >email, but not in the body of the text. >The next issue will be released in Spring 2005. > >SWITCHBACK is a publication of the Master of Fine Arts in Writing >Program of the University of San Francisco, Deborah Lichtman and >Aaron Shurin, Co-Directors. SWITCHBACK is a forum for the writers of >USF's MFA community, including alumni, students, and faculty, as >well as the wider literary community, in the areas of fiction, >nonfiction, poetry, and critical essays. >We look forward to reading your work. > >Sincerely, >The Switchback Staff > >http://www.swback.com/ >http://www.swback.com/call.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 18:48:22 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laura oliver Subject: FW: FOR SALE: Wessex Bookstore Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Wessex Books <writetom@wessexbooks.com> >To: tome@wessexbooks.com >Subject: FOR SALE: Wessex Bookstore >Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 19:16:57 -0700 > >January 3, 2005 > >Dear Customers, > >When I opened Wessex on El Camino several weeks before Christmas in >1975, a few years out of college, I never imagined I would still be >selling books well into the next century. I knew that I loved books >-- loved finding them, reading them, organizing them, and even >selling them -- and opening a shop seemed like the perfect way to >spend my time. In the world of books was where I wanted to live -- >in 1975 the VCR, the CD, the internet, email, and cell phones were >barely gleams in someone else's eyes -- and it's still certainly a >place I never want to or plan to leave. > >That said, after almost thirty years of running Wessex I've reached >the point in my life where I would like a change, and so I've >decided to put the business up for sale. My youngest will be >graduating from Paly this June; for that and a number of reasons the >time is right for me to explore something new. > >Building and managing a bookshop has been a very satisfying thing to >have done: always varied and interesting, full of fun and discovery, >and the basis for a broadly endless education. I've had a million >wonderful books and thousands of wonderful customers pass through >the doors here, leaving together to make good homes for each other. >I'd very much like that process to continue under someone else's >management for, say, another thirty years, or even into the next >century. I need your help finding that person. > >In addition to a three-decade-old, widespread reputation for >excellence, the assets of the business include roughly 75,000 >carefully selected books and 6,000 LPs, a well-established web site >at wessexbooks.com with 20,000 catalogued titles, listings on >multiple other internet selling sites, and all the fixtures and >everything else necessary to run the shop and its web branches, >including (if needed and wanted) free lifetime tech support from me. > >If you or someone you know is curious and crazy and wise enough to >be seriously interested, please write. I'm hoping to complete a sale >in the next couple of months . . . > >Sincerely, >Tom Haydon >Wessex Books >558 Santa Cruz Ave >Menlo Park CA 94025 >650-321-1333 >store@wessexbooks.com > >PS: For those of you holding Wessex trade credit slips: while I >would expect any buyer of the store to honor all trade slips after a >sale, I would also suggest that you should perhaps spend existing >credit sooner rather than later. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:52:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 1/10-1/12 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Monday, January 10, 8:00 pm Deborah Meadows & David Perry Deborah Meadows teaches in the Liberal Studies department at California State Polytechnic University, Pomona. Her works include Representing Absence (Green Integer), Itinerant Men (Krupskaya Press), and The 60's and 70's: from "The Theory of Subjectivity in Moby-Dick" (Tinfish Press). She has been part of campus exchanges with writers from Havana. Her essays and reviews have appeared in Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics, Jacket, and How2. She and her significant other, Howard, have lived in Pasadena since 1986, have built a small house in the Piute mountains on weekends, and worked variously on peace and social justice issues. David Perry recently moved from Brooklyn, NY to Kansas City, MO, where he teaches at the Kansas City Art Institute and works as a freelance editor, writer, and multimedia producer. He is the author of a book of poems, Range Finder, and two chapbooks, Knowledge Follows and New Years. Wednesday, January 12, 8:00 pm Sherry Brennan & Robert Fitterman Sherry Brennan is a poet and translator who lives in New York. Her book of poetry, On poems and their antecedents, is just out from Subpress, as is her translation of Jean-Michel Espitallier's Fantasy Butcher (Duration Press). Her earlier chapbooks include Taken, again today and The Resemblances. Her recent essays can be found in African American Review and Jacket. Robert Fitterman is the author of eight books of poetry, including three installments of his ongoing poem Metropolis: Metropolis 1-15, Metropolis 16-29, and his latest collection Metropolis XXX: The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (Edge Books, 2004). His earlier books include Leases, among the cynics, and Ameresque. With novelist Rodrigo Rey Rosa, he co-wrote the feature film What Sebastian Dreamt, which was selected for the 2004 Sundance Film Festival and the Lincoln Center Film Festival, LatinBeat. He teaches at New York University. **On January 22, at 1 pm, we will be having a memorial service for beloved, longtime friend and sound technician John Fisk, who passed away in recent weeks. The memorial will be held in the Parish Hall. ** The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:14:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <9C63A4713C4E3342B90428CE44806A730CE769@PHSXMB5.partners.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii does ms. houlihan ever say anything different when she pretends to review contemporary poetry? why circulate this to this list when it won't tell us anything we already don't know. the thoughts of a small person are usually small. personally, i recognize Bruce Andrews after the third word. she should be like a critic who didn't minimalism and color field painting. you just haven't earned yet, baby! Robert "Hoerman, Michael A" wrote: http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 14:37:14 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: Millennium Three: A Call for Assistance In-Reply-To: <005e01c4f351$35b08d40$b4d46f44@yourw04gtxld67> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr. Rothenberg, I read with interest your Call for Assistance on the Poetics Listserv, and I writing to see if this might of interest to you: I have just completed a new translation of The Gulistan, a masterpiece of 13th century Persian literature, by Saadi. My translation is based on the 1880s translation done by Edward Rehatsek. Persian literature, in translation, of course, was profoundly influential in English and American literary circles. Emerson called The Gulistan a secular bible; Thoreau wrote about Saadi in his journals; Byron called Saadi a Persian Catullus. John D Yohanan has traced the relationship between Persian poetry and English literature in a book called, I believe, Persian Poetry in America and England: A 200 Year History. (Or something like that--unfortunately, I am emailing you from some place where I cannot look the precise title up.) I'm not sure in what form exactly you envision the assistance you are calling, but I offer what little expertise I have acquired in this area since I began working on these translations. You can find out more about what I have done on my website: www.richardjnewman.com. Cheers and best wishes for the new year. Richard Newman ______________________ Richard Jeffrey Newman Associate Professor, English Chair, International Education Committee Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu. www.ncc.edu http://richardjeffreynewman.blogspot.com www.richardjnewman.com richard.j.newman@verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jerome Rothenberg Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 1:06 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Millennium Three: A Call for Assistance This is to let a number of you know that I'm starting -- indefatigably -- on a new project of some size: a Romantic and postromantic (including early modern) gathering conceived as a nineteenth-century sequel or prequel to Poems for the Millennium. My co-editor and the true originator of the project is Jeffrey Robinson, whom some of you may know already as a scholar of English Romanticism and a marvelous voice in connecting that germinal moment and movement to the most innovative and radical poetries of our own time and place. The publisher, as with Poems for the Millennium, will be the University of California Press. Our plan is to trace a line or several lines of work -- both poetry and poetics -- from the late eighteenth-century post-enlightenment to the early twentieth-century eruption of experimental and avant-garde modernism. Like what Pierre Joris and I did in Poems for the Millennium, such a gathering, as we conceive it, would be international in scope (with a focus, for obvious reasons, on all of Europe and all of the Americas) and would attempt to restore a sense of the revolutionary and transformative nature of Romanticism and postromanticism as they were at the time of their inception. We would also aim, as before, to reach beyond literature as such and to incorporate both extraliterary forms of language experiment and the vast range of ethnopoetic discoveries that were prevalent throughout the nineteenth century. By so doing we aim to recapture a great body of poetry (canonical as well as non-canonical) that was stripped of its counterpoetic potential and too often denied by many of those who were in fact among its true inheritors. Jeffrey Robinson and I view this not only as "our" project but as a potentially collective work, in which we would call on the knowledge and the passions of those of you who share our sense of the romantic as a principal starting point for much that has followed. Our primary search is for works of poetry -- broadly defined -- but we are also tracking down critical and scholarly writings, including (very much so) related work and commentaries by later poets and other active practitioners, among them many of those for whom Romanticism as such was or remains a problematic value. Beyond that we have a desperate need for translations -- either suggestions of poetry already translated or offers to join with us in the crucial work of creating or transcreating new translations that will conserve and forcefully carry the old works back to the domain of the new. As with Poems for the Millennium, when Pierre Joris and I began it, we have only a first, still dim presentiment of where this will carry us. What we're offering, then, is a genuine call both for translations and for consultation and assistance that will open the project to all of you who want to have a voice in it. Jerome Rothenberg, on behalf of Jeffrey Robinson and myself jrothenberg@cox.net Jeffrey.C.Robinson@colorado.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 15:35:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassandra Laity Subject: CFP for MSA-Chicago Comments: To: hdsoc-l@listserv.uconn.edu, tse@lists.missouri.edu, modbrits@listserv.kent.edu, modernism@lists.village.virginia.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MSA 7 - Chicago, IL, November 3-6, 2005: CALL FOR SEMINAR, PANEL, and ROUNDTABLE PROPOSALS=20 Deadline for Submission of Seminar Topics: February 28, 2005=20 Deadline for Submission of Panel Proposals: May 9, 2005 Deadline for Submission of Roundtable Proposals: May 9, 2005 Please note:=20 * All who attend the MSA conference must be members of the organization with dues paid for 2005-6. (MSA membership runs from October to September.) * Because we wish to involve as many people as possible as active participants, MSA does not permit multiple appearances on the program. That is, one cannot give papers in two sessions, or be both a seminar leader and a panelist or roundtable participant. However, panelists, roundtable participants, and plenary speakers who also wish to participate in a seminar or a "What Are You Reading?" session may certainly do so. And of course one may chair a session and also appear elsewhere on the program. * MSA rules do not allow panel or roundtable organizers to chair their own session if they are also speaking in the session. Organizers are encouraged to identify a moderator and include this information with their proposals; the MSA Program Committee is also able to help you secure another conference attendee's service as moderator.=20 After the following calls for seminar leaders, panels, and roundtables, please see at the end of this message announcements for additional conference events. =20 1. CALL FOR SEMINAR PROPOSALS Deadline: Monday, February 28, 2005=20 Seminars are one the most significant features of the MSA conference. Seminars are two hours in length. Participants write brief "position papers" (5-7 pages) that are read and circulated prior to the conference. With no more than 15 participants, seminars generate lively exchange and sometimes produce networks of scholars who continue to work together beyond the conference. The format also allows most conference attendees to seek financial support from their institutions as they educate themselves and their colleagues on subjects of mutual interest. Please note that this is the call for seminar *leaders*. Sign-ups for seminar participants will take place on a first-come, first-served basis starting in mid-April. Seminar Topics There are no limits on topics, but past experience has shown that the more clearly defined the topic and the more guidance provided by the leader, the more productive the discussion. To scan past seminar topics, go to the "Conference Archives" on the MSA website (http://msa.press.jhu.edu/archive/archive.html), click the link to a prior conference, and then click on "Conference Schedule" or "Conference Program." You'll find seminars listed along with panels and other events.=20 Proposing a Seminar=20 Seminar proposals must be submitted via email and must include the following information. Please assist us by sending this information in exactly the order given here:=20 * Use as a subject line: MSA 7 SEMINAR PROPOSAL / [LAST NAME OF SEMINAR LEADER] (e.g., MSA SEMINAR PROPOSAL / GORMAN) * List the seminar leader's name, institutional affiliation, discipline, position or title, mailing address, phone, fax, and e-mail address=20 * Provide a brief curriculum vitae (including teaching experience) for the seminar leader=20 * Give a brief description (up to 100 words) of the proposed topic=20 Submit proposals by February 28 to:=20 Ann Mattis, Conference Assistant MSACHICAGO@LUC.EDU=20 Seminars will be selected in mid-March 2005. =20 Leading a Seminar=20 Seminar topics will be listed on the conference website in late March with instructions on how to enroll. Effective seminars have followed a variety of models, and seminar leaders will be given a menu of best practices derived from the experience of previous leaders. E-mail addresses for all seminar registrants will be provided to seminar leaders in May. At that time, leaders should:=20 * Initiate communications by e-mail, introducing themselves and providing addresses to all participants=20 * Set guidelines for the seminar, which might include questions to be addressed, reading to be done, and a specified length for the position papers (normally 5-7 double-spaced pages). MSA will provide guidance, but so long as the focus remains on the papers submitted by participants, leaders are free to use the two-hour time period as they see fit). * Set firm deadlines, no later than September 12, 2005 for the actual exchange of papers=20 * Exchange and read papers during the 7-8 weeks before the conference=20 =20 2. CALL FOR PANEL PROPOSALS=20 Deadline: Monday, May 9, 2005=20 There are no limits on topics, but please bear in mind these guidelines: * We encourage interdisciplinary panels and discourage panels on single authors.=20 * In order to encourage discussion, we prefer panels with three participants, though panels of four will be considered. * Panels composed entirely of participants from a single department at a single institution are not likely to be accepted.=20 * Graduate students are welcome as panelists. However, panels composed entirely of graduate students are less likely to be accepted than panels that include degreed presenters together with graduate students. Proposals for panels must be submitted via email and must include the following information. Please assist us by sending this information in exactly the order given here:=20 * Use as a subject line: MSA 7 PANEL PROPOSAL / [LAST NAME OF PANEL ORGANIZER] (e.g., MSA 7 PANEL PROPOSAL / GORMAN) * Session title=20 * Session organizer's name, institutional affiliation, discipline, position or title, mailing address, phone, fax, and e-mail address=20 * Chair's name, institutional affiliation, discipline, position or title, and contact information (if you do not identify a chair, we will locate one for you)=20 * Panelists' names, paper titles, institutional affiliations, disciplines, positions or titles, and contact information=20 * A maximum 500-word abstract of the panel as a whole=20 * Brief (2-3 sentence) scholarly biography of each panelist 3. CALL FOR ROUNDTABLE PROPOSALS Deadline: Monday, May 9, 2005=20 Unlike panels, which generally feature a sequence of 15-20 minutes talks followed by discussion, roundtables gather a group of participants around a shared concern in order to generate discussion among the roundtable participants and with the audience. To this end, instead of delivering full-length papers, participants typically deliver short position statements in response to questions distributed in advance by the organizer, or they take turns responding to prompts from the moderator. The bulk of the session should be devoted to discussion. No paper titles are listed in the program, only the names of participants. Other MSA roundtable policies:=20 * Roundtables may feature as many as 6 speakers * We particularly welcome roundtables featuring participants from multiple disciplines, and we discourage roundtables on single authors. * Panels composed entirely of participants from a single department at a single institution are not likely to be accepted.=20 * Graduate students are welcome as speakers. However, roundtables composed entirely of graduate students are less likely to be accepted than roundtables that include degreed presenters together with graduate students. Proposals for panels must be submitted via email and must include the following information. Please assist us by sending this information in exactly the order given here: =20 * Use as a subject line: MSA 7 ROUNDTABLE PROPOSAL / [LAST NAME OF ROUNDTABLE ORGANIZER] (e.g., MSA 7 ROUNDTABLE PROPOSAL / GORMAN) * Session title=20 * Session organizer's name, institutional affiliation, discipline, position or title, mailing address, phone, fax, and e-mail address=20 * Moderator's name, institutional affiliation, discipline, position or title, and contact information (if you do not identify a moderator, we will locate one for you)=20 * Speakers' names, institutional affiliations, disciplines, positions or titles, mailing addresses, phones, faxes, and e-mail addresses * A maximum 500-word rationale for the roundtable=20 * Brief (2-3 sentence) scholarly biography of each speaker Send proposals by May 9 to: Ann Mattis, Conference Assistant MSACHICAGO@LUC.EDU=20 Roundtables and Panels will be selected in mid-June. ADDITIONAL CONFERENCE EVENTS: "WHAT ARE YOU READING?" Last year in Vancouver, the MSA introduced a new kind of session, "What Are You Reading?" Designed to take advantage, in a productive new way, of the presence in one place of modernist scholars from many locations, institutions, and fields, each ninety-minute forum consisted of 8 to 10 participants and a moderator. Led by the moderator, each participant reported for a few minutes on a scholarly or critical book in modernist studies, sketching the work's content and explaining why she or he found it exciting to share with other scholars. Time permitting, moderators then led discussions in which participants could seek clarifications, draw connections, and propose further related reading. A major goal of "What Are You Reading?" is to facilitate the sharing of exciting new scholarship (or the "rediscovery" of older scholarship) and to foster interdisciplinarity by exposing participants to work in modernist fields other than their own. Open only to those who register for them in advance, these sessions were widely considered a success and will be repeated in Chicago. "What Are You Reading" is not intended as a venue for discussion of primary texts or works, for self-promotion, or for the enacting of intellectual conflicts. Participants will therefore be asked not to present on primary texts or works (though new editions and catalogues are welcome), their own publications, or scholarship they did not substantially admire.=20 To participate, all you will need to do is check the appropriate box on your MSA registration form and name a book you might be interested in presenting. MSA registration will begin mid-April; look for announcements at that time. Please note that you will have to register by 5 September to be included in "What Are You Reading?" You will be notified of the time and location of your forum in early October. There is no need to submit any proposal or paper in connection with this event, nor do you need to contact your moderator in advance. Simply check the box, receive notice of your time and location, and show up ready to share a book! Given the uncertain supply of moderators, places are limited and will be distributed on a first-come, first-served basis. Cassandra Laity Associate Professor Co-Editor, _Modernism/Modernity_ Department of English Drew University Madison, NJ 07940 Phone: 973-408-3141 Fax: 973-408-3040 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:43:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <20050106191400.82058.qmail@web50410.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well, I suppose because people like me who are on list completely forget to read her so this afternoon I was wondering at But even comparing these two poems to each other is like comparing two people speaking in tongues: who sounds better? and Consider the riddle another way: how do you determine the better, if not best, passage of Greek or Latin when you don't understand the language? Because it is a peculiar "'church' of poetry" indeed that Ms. Hula-Hoop's positing. All best, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Corbett Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 11:14 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review does ms. houlihan ever say anything different when she pretends to review contemporary poetry? why circulate this to this list when it won't tell us anything we already don't know. the thoughts of a small person are usually small. personally, i recognize Bruce Andrews after the third word. she should be like a critic who didn't minimalism and color field painting. you just haven't earned yet, baby! Robert "Hoerman, Michael A" wrote: http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 16:36:29 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Henry Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Henry Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <-5467617377904175917@unknownmsgid> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:43:14 -0800, Catherine Daly wrote: > Because it is a peculiar "'church' of poetry" indeed that Ms. > Hula-Hoop's positing. Wow. She is so very anxious to have someone reassure her what really is "the best" poetry and what isn't that she's sucked every smidge of joy and excitement out of reading, never mind reviewing. One wouldn't want her to waste a couple minutes of her life reading a poi-em that _might not truly belong_ in the hallowed pages of a Best Of anthology, would one? Perish the thought! A poor excuse for a critic, with a worldview as insecure, shrill, and totalitarian as some national political leaders one could name. At least she got Lyn Hejinian's name correct in this new rant. -- Ron Henry AUGHT http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 21:01:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: Landscape Under Construction in NYC Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd love to hear a bootleg recording of this if anyone can make it.... mIEKAL Begin forwarded message: > From: bebopj@ix.netcom.com > Date: Thu Jan 6, 2005 5:29:39 PM America/Chicago > To: silence@virginia.edu > Subject: Landscape Under Construction in NYC > Reply-To: bebopj@ix.netcom.com > > Come out and watch an army of CD players lionize John Cage. > > Landscape Under Construction > a tribute to John Cage > for between 1 and 42 CD players, playing John Cage CDs > Live at Tonic > 107 Norfolk Street between Delancey and Rivington > in the Subtonic Lounge > Thursday, January 13 > 10:30 Pm > free! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 20:08:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: 2 readings plus prose workshop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I'll be giving two readings in San Francisco next week: January 11 and 13, and I'll be starting a new round of my private prose workshop starting February 9. See details below. ------------------- Come to the Bottoms Up Book Launch and Reading at EROS. January 11, 7 p.m. 2051 Market Street at Church across from the Safeway Featuring some of San Francisco's most entertaining voices: Bob Gluck Dodie Bellamy Red Jordan Arobateau Daphne Gottlieb Charlie Anders Sarah Fran Wisby Lori Selke Jess Arndt Bottoms Up: Writing About Sex Both an erotic and literary thrill, Bottoms Up, eschews conventional conceptions of gender, eliminating categories such as homo- and heterosexual. The stories are not straight up sexual narrations, but poems and stories that examine the concept and manifestation of desire itself. The subject matter ranges from straight to queer and transgender, from darkly vanilla to tenderly sadomasochist. Including contributions from Eileen Myles, Michelle Tea, Red Jordan Arobateau, and Robert Gluck, the pieces of Bottoms Up go quickly to the heart of what makes sex desperate, dangerous, hysterical, and essential. Editor and sexpert Diana Cage has crafted a sleazy and surprisingly tender ode to bottoming, topping, and just plain wanting it. ------------------------ Start the new year with a reading from the new Ecstatic Monkey series! Thursday January 13th at StartSoma Gallery featuring poet and fiction writer Dodie Bellamy with Ecstatic Monkey member writers Amy MacLennan and Farnoosh Seifoddini 7:30 pm FREE and open to the public Beer and wine Pink Steam, a collection of Dodie Bellamy's stories, memoirs and memoiresque essays, was published in 2004 by San Francisco's Suspect Thoughts Press. Also in 2004, her infamous epistolary vampire novel, The Letters of Mina Harker, was reprinted by the University of Wisconsin Press. Her book Cunt-Ups (Tender Buttons) won the 2002 Firecracker Alternative Book Award for poetry. She teaches creative writing in various grad programs and runs a private prose workshop in her SoMa apartment. Amy MacLennan has been published or has work forthcoming in Cimarron Review, Wisconsin Review, Rattle, Controlled Burn, South Dakota Review and Folio. One of her poems was included in So Luminous the Wildflowers, An Anthology of California Poets (Tebot Bach). Amy has read at the Petaluma Poetry Walk and the San Luis Obispo Poetry Festival. Farnoosh Seifoddini recently completed an MFA in Creative Writing at SFSU. She currently resides in Oakland and is working on her first manuscript, Awake Through all These Hours. Her most recent work can be found in the North American Review, the Kennesaw Review and Transfer Magazine. StartSoma Gallery is at 672 S. Van Ness between 17th and 18th. Through the blue door and up the stairs. ---------------------------- Dodie Bellamy's Prose Workshop This winter/spring I will be leading a prose workshop, which will meet 11 Wednesday evenings, from 7 to 10 p.m. The dates: February 9 through April 27 (no class March 9). Cost: $300, with a $100 deposit due by February 1. By prose I mean fiction, nonfiction, prose poetry, cross-genre (and cross-gender) writing including (but not exclusively) anything edgy or experimental. It's a good place to present work that feels too risky or sexy or queer for academic workshops. The workshops are totally open-ended. Five people present a week, scheduling that the week ahead. Usually people bring in something 5 pages or less (copies for everybody) and we critique it that week. Longer pieces are also okay, but they need to be handed out a week ahead of time for people to read. Each student typically gets a half an hour each time we critique. The classes are limited to 9 students. Lots and lots of personal attention. They take place in my South of Market apartment, which comes complete with snacks and one cat. Pink Steam, my collection of fiction, memoir, and memoiresque essays, was published in June by San Francisco's Suspect Thoughts Press. My vampire novel, The Letters of Mina Harker was reprinted by University of Wisconsin Press in October. I'm the author of 3 other books and I teach creative writing at SF State and in the MFA program at Antioch Los Angeles. I've also taught at CalArts, Naropa summer session, Mills, USF, UC Santa Cruz, and the SF Art Institute. I'm the winner of the Bay Guardian Goldie Award for Literature and the Firecracker Alternative Book Award for Poetry. If you're interested, please email about work samples, etc. Or--if you know anybody who might be interested, please pass this email along to them. If you're interested do contact me promptly. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 00:13:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20050105104335.03ebd260@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit sure CB read it with much conviction/passion, uh-huh, an exciting thing. i guess that's sexy. MY Sexiest Poem + Reading of Sexiest Poem of 2005 So Far Award would probably go to you, Conrad, for that positively fucked up poem (Deviant Propulsion) & performance you gave at St. Mark's on the 1st. tho it may qualify for 2004, tied with your Dear Mr. President, since i recall hearing you read it before - just not presented quite the same... hassen *BTW it threw/killed me when your Little Voice popped out of the cassette player instructing you to just read the next poem aha! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 00:41:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Ice Storm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Ice Storm How beautiful and deadly thou art, cycles of ice hanging like deadmen from trees breaking the limbs, crashing down onto highway 80 onto highway 940, the bus turns around in shame at loveliness and murder How murderous thou art, deadly as well, making old trees making way for new trees green growth branched crashing on streets and super highways alike turning vehicles around straight dead in their tracks staring at loveliness and murder _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 21:45:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Ice Storm In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Talk about a counter-romantic love poem! (Mock not, all is true). I like it. Drive carefully, not drive, he said. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > Ice Storm > > > How beautiful and deadly thou art, > cycles of ice hanging like deadmen from trees > breaking the limbs, crashing down onto highway 80 > onto highway 940, the bus turns around in shame > at loveliness and murder > > How murderous thou art, deadly as well, > making old trees making way for new trees green growth > branched crashing on streets and super highways alike > turning vehicles around straight dead in their tracks > staring at loveliness and murder > > > _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 01:15:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: md/nght Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed & ideas are often delusions when mixed with confused sporadic glimpses of a portrait common as enough of a broken comment scared, intuitive linked periods midnights full of ambushes silhouettes of postures saluting dawn & days of wandering angry & in love with the world & I ask was it all skipped like a stone across a wave no one ponders & I hope that it may be slightly in the way for nothing but its worth in water it is raining… ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 03:49:47 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Forwarded Message----- From: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sent: Jan 7, 2005 3:28 AM To: poetics@listsderv.buffalo.edu Subject: winter.... sufi i wear 2 pr socks light on far right last bldng winter.... winter.... winter.... the sng the sgn i i o..... umaah 3:30.... dark.....to......drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:51:51 +0000 Reply-To: lisajarnot Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lisajarnot Subject: Lisa Jarnot seeks private students Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi List-people, could you circulate this to students/people who might be interested? Thank= s, Lisa Jarnot I am currently looking for private writing/poetry students to work with via= email, mail, or in person (in the London, UK area until February 28th, in = New York City from March 1st-May 15th). I have been teaching poetry and li= terature since 1995 at Long Island University, Brooklyn College's MFA progr= am, at the Naropa Institute in Boulder, CO, at the Poetry Project in New Yo= rk City, and in private workshops in Brooklyn, New York. I can assist you = with basic techniques of writing, manuscript revision, publishing suggestio= ns, etc. Fee: =C2=A315/$30 per hour. Contact me at jarnot@earthlink.net o= r in London at 0208 694 5845. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 05:56:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: the death of democracy Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Today is a historic day for America. For the first time since 1877, members of Congress chose to contest the=20= certification of electoral votes. The vote count stopped when Vice=20 President Dick Cheney reached Ohio. Based on concrete facts about voter=20= disenfranchisement compiled by John Conyers and his staff, Senator=20 Barbara Boxer (D-CA) and Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones (D-OH)=20 stood together and forced debate in both houses of Congress about=20 certification of Ohio's electoral votes. The Senate's debate convened quickly, as only 75 Senators were=20 available to vote and it takes only a simple majority to turn down such=20= an objection. Out of 75 Senators, 55 were Republicans. The objection=20 was overturned 74 to 1. This means that 19 Democrats voted with the=20 Republican Party on this. The dissenting vote was cast by Senator=20 Barbara Boxer, who had cosigned the objection with Stephanie Tubbs=20 Jones. Even in Congress, there seems to be an air of unfairness to this debate=20= -- some Democrats were given only 10-30 seconds to speak their minds on=20= this issue, while some Republicans were allowed as long as 5 minutes to=20= decry the stand-up Democrats as conspiracy-theorists and=20 "noise-makers." The report put out by the Conyers staff was over 100 pages long, and=20 details, very specifically, instances of blatant voter=20 disenfranchisement as well as serious problems concerning numbers of=20 voting machines, length of lines, and the like. In the face of this and other irrefutable evidence, Republican Congress=20= members fought back with rhetoric, not facts. They stood up and called=20= us on the left liars, noise makers, conspiracy nuts, while providing=20 NO, repeat NO, concrete evidence whatsoever. Why did the Republicans=20 fight against an objection that would not take their chosen leader out=20= of office, but simply allow the government to reform the voting system=20= and make sure that all Americans are able to vote and have their votes=20= counted? What are they afraid of? Perhaps they are afraid that actually allowing every eligible American=20= to vote will hurt them? If this is the case, then I say, "Shame on you!" To vote in favor of=20 the disenfranchisement of the American people shows all too clearly=20 that these people do not care what the American people want--they care=20= about winning and staying in power. And the fact the 19 Democrats could=20= not stand up and present a united front on this is absolutely pitiful. 135 House members did not bother to show up to vote. 173 Republicans=20 turned down the objection and will certify what they cannot verify. 81=20= Democrats also turned down the objection and will certify what they=20 cannot verify. Only 33 Democrats in the House were willing to uphold=20 the objection. Only 33 members of the House of Representatives fought=20 for democracy today. Only 34 members of Congress stood up and fought=20 for democracy today. The result of all this is clear. Democracy is dead. The United States is now, for all practical purposes, a one party=20 state. With the Democrats lying wilted and beaten on the Senate floor,=20= there is little hope that they will make any organized effort to fight=20= against the Republican majority for the next two years. There is little recourse for those of us outside the power structure at=20= this point. We can do what we have been doing -- calling, writing,=20 emailing our representatives, protesting, and communicating here on the=20= net, until 2006. In 2006, we can show up in unprecedented numbers to=20 vote in the midterm elections and we can oust these pathetic Democrats=20= from their comfortable seats of power and replace them with members of=20= the left who actually care about voters. We must replace these 100=20 Democrats with people who will demand democracy in the United States,=20 and we must demand answers from those Congress members who didn't=20 bother to show up to vote --why? What could possibly be more important=20= than upholding the rights of your constituents? Isn't it your job to=20 protect us? Isn't it your job to look after our interests? Today is a day of mourning, but also a day of renewed anger and energy.=20= We must fight! We, the little people, are all that is left to protect=20 democracy for the future. (This piece was written by Katherine Brengle is a 23-year-old college=20 student and aspiring writer from Massachusetts.=A0) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 07:00:33 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Harry Nudel, so I'm kissing Bernstein's ass? Well Harry the actual truth is that I am 99% certain Mr. Bernstein is heterosexual. And I'm not so sure his wife would approve of me kissing his ass. Although it is possible to accidentally kiss someone's ass in the shower, I doubt very much that Mr. Bernstein and I will be showering together anytime soon. And furthermore, since I'm such a careful person in the shower (it's important to condition the hair properly) it's highly unlikely I would have such an accident occur with Mr. Bernstein or any other fellow showerer. Let me try to be serious (it's so difficult for me to be serious with you Harry, but I'll try), I have fantastic self esteem, meaning I like my poems and don't need a crutch like kissing ass. Besides that, my poems and Mr. Bernstein's poems are written on very different continents, so, if I was the type of person to kiss ass (and I'm NOT meaning the accident in the shower kind) I would most likely be wasting my time with him. For years I had heard the frightening accounts of this cutthroat poet Charles Bernstein. The stories DID make me check out his poems, and some I liked, and some not. But all kinds of wicked stories were being told about Bernstein, none that I'm interested in repeating (life's too exciting for gossip, at least I think so). So when I heard that he was going to be giving a reading in Philadelphia, I thought I'd show up and get a view of this Atilla the Hun. Of course he turned out to be rather nice, and he looks you right in the eye when he talks, and doesn't seem to bullshit you, all good qualities, and rare for many poets. So the bastard wasn't a bastard afterall, and ontop of it, I liked his poems he read to us, another thing I wasn't so certain would happen for me. Plus, the added bonus that he's a top of the line reader of his poems. These are facts, like them or not, it's all very true. Bernstein didn't get where he is by writing shitty poems and mumbling in monotone at the mic. But once again, my award for his poem was judged with sincerity, and that's that. He's won the award and I refuse to give into any pressures to change my mind. Have a suspicious day wary Harry, CAConrad http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 06:10:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: oink, oink, oink! Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The new theoretical faces on Mt. Rushmore. Bill Gates Rupert Murdoch George W. Bush (and the thousands of lackeys feeding at their trough of hypocrisy and greed...) And Schwarzenegger is now talking about REDISTRICTING in California. Republicans won't rest until they own Hollywood and thus own America's mind (they already own your ass). Bringing racism, homophobia, and murder to a theater NEAR YOU! Three cheers for the EMPIRE, OINK, OINK, OINK! Whatcha gonna do when they come for you? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 07:36:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Guy Davenport NYT obit In-Reply-To: <296e379105010606272e3685b3@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This morning's NYT obit for Guy Davenport: January 7, 2005 Guy Davenport Dies at 77; Prolific Author and Illustrator By CHRISTOPHER LEHMANN-HAUPT Guy Davenport, a many-sided author, painter, teacher and scholar whose=20= work, while ranging from critical essays to translations to poetry, was=20= perhaps most admired for short stories in the modernist tradition of=20 Pound and Joyce, died on Tuesday in Lexington, Ky. He was 77 and lived=20= in Lexington, where he taught English at the University of Kentucky for=20= three decades. The cause was lung cancer, said Bonnie Jean Cox, his companion of=20 almost 40 years. Just as Mr. Davenport arrived at his teaching career serendipitously -=20= "I never intended to be a teacher," he once said, "I just like going to=20= school and learning things" - he considered writing fiction "just a=20 hobby," as he told several interviewers. Yet he published more than a half-dozen collections of stories, among=20 them "Da Vinci's Bicycle: Ten Stories" (Johns Hopkins, 1979), "Apples=20 and Pears and Other Stories" (North Point Press, 1984), "The Jules=20 Verne Steam Balloon: Nine Stories" (North Point, 1987) and "A Table of=20= Green Fields" (New Directions, 1994). In 1990 he received a so-called genius grant from the John D. and=20 Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation for his short fiction and essays=20 linking American civilization with the traditions of classical and=20 European culture. In typical Davenport short stories, Kafka promises a little girl that=20 her lost doll, Belinda, is actually on a trip around the world and will=20= write to her ("Belinda's World Tour"), or there's a juxtaposition of=20 Gertrude Stein and Alice B. Toklas in Paris, the Wright brothers at=20 Kitty Hawk, Fourier's utopian New Harmony community, Leonardo's=20 bicycle, pollinating bees, and Beckett in conversation ("Au Tombeau de=20= Charles Fourier"). Mr. Davenport's playful explanation for his technique was, "You get up=20= in the morning and you've got Keats' 'Odes' to take some sophomores=20 through, and you've got a chapter of 'Ulysses' for your graduate=20 students, and the mind gets in the habit of finding cross-references=20 among subjects," he told an interviewer for the periodical Vort in=20 1976. But critics saw the deeper point to his fiction. Hilton Kramer, in The=20= New York Times Book Review, wrote of Davenport's conception of the=20 short-story form: "He has given it some of the intellectual density of=20= the learned essay, some of the lyric concision of the modern poem -=20 some of its difficulty too - and a structure that often resembles a=20 film documentary. The result is a tour de force that adds something new=20= to the art of fiction." In 1974, his story "Robot" won a third prize in the O. Henry Awards,=20 and in 1981 he won the Morton Douwen Zabel award for fiction from the=20 American Academy and Institute of Arts and Letters. Guy Mattison Davenport Jr. was born in Anderson, S.C., on Nov. 23,=20 1927, the younger child of Guy Mattison Davenport, a Railway Express=20 agent, and Marie Fant Davenport. An older sister, Gloria Williamson of=20= Anderson, survives him, in addition to Ms. Cox. In 1944, Mr. Davenport quit high school to study art at Duke=20 University. He eventually majored in classics and English literature,=20 and won a Rhodes Scholarship in 1948. At Merton College, Oxford, he=20 wrote the first thesis on Joyce to be accepted by the university,=20 received a degree in literature in 1950, and returned to the United=20 States. After serving from 1950 to 1952 in the Army's 18th Airborne Corps he=20 taught at Washington University in St. Louis. A meeting with Pound in=20 1952 solidified his interest in modern literature and led him to take a=20= doctorate at Harvard, where he wrote his thesis on Pound's "Cantos,"=20 which helped to highlight Pound's poetic achievement in the face of his=20= mental problems and support of fascism. After teaching at Haverford College from 1961 to 1963, he joined the=20= University of Kentucky faculty, where he remained until he retired in=20 1991, after winning the MacArthur grant with its award of $365,000. In 1963, he published his first book, "The Intelligence of Louis=20 Agassiz: A Specimen Book of Scientific Writings" (Beacon), a study of a=20= Harvard University natural philosopher. There followed some four dozen=20= books, among them, in addition to the stories, the novel "Bicycle=20 Rider" (1985), books on art, and even several works he illustrated,=20 including Hugh Kenner's "Counterfeiters." "He was an unqualified genius, so he talked over everybody's head,"=20 Erik Reece, a former student, a friend, the author of a book on Mr.=20 Davenport's visual art and now a lecturer in Kentucky's English=20 department, told The Louisville Courier-Journal, "but in a way that=20 made you want to get to where he was." Copyright 2005=A0The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy |=20= Search | Corrections | RSS | Help | Back to Top =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street=09 Albany NY 12202 =09 h: 518 426 0433 =09 c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 =09= email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 07:38:19 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Steve, I don't want you to think I was ignoring you, I was just having a little talk with Harry first. But here I am, and you have my full attention. Okay? Okay, so it's time for a little tough love. I'm so sorry your feelings were hurt that I didn't choose one of your poems for the sexiest poem of 2004. You poor thing! Dry your eyes! Now Steve listen close, I'm not saying you didn't write a poem in 2004 that was sexier, I'm just saying that if you did, I didn't read it. One more thing, when you wrote, "come on he's straight enough already" it made me laugh SO loud! Did you REALLY read Bernstein's poem? It's OKAY Steve, it's A-Okay, no need to protect Bernstein's masculinity! You extinct version of yourself, don't you get it? Reread his poem again! That's your assignment for today! And dry your eyes or no recess! Oh Steve, if I was your mother I'd probably love you more than I do, since I don't. Sweet blessings in your prayers Steve, CAConrad http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:27:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "the thoughts of a small person are usually small." --Robert Corbett "the thoughts of a turtle are all turtle." --R.W. Emerson <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:53:23 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: fwd re gay Canadian poets cfp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable fyi : This came via another listserve: [Original Message] > From: Andrew Lesk > To: > Date: 1/6/2005 9:13:46 PM > Subject: CFP _Canadian Poetry_: Queer Desire > > Please circulate. If you would like a poster version (artwork, in jpeg format, > easy to print off), please contact me. (Sorry for any cross-postings.) > > > QUEER desire > > a call for papers > > a special issue of _Canadian Poetry_ > > =E2=80=9Csnow is our rule of churches, work and laws, / our reticence, our loneliness, > our pause, / the emptiness we live in. This is snow.=E2=80=9D > =E2=80=94 E.A. Lacey, =E2=80=9CCanadian Sonnets=E2=80=9D > > Edward Lacey=E2=80=99s 1965 _Forms of Loss_, the first openly gay book of=20= Canadian > poetry, names the then-unnamable, making public a language of desire that often > hesitated in speaking. But queer desire in Canadian poetry has always been > about more than longing and snowy reserve (though, certainly, it has been > that), especially as Lacey uses =E2=80=9Csnow=E2=80=9D to refer to pre-196= 9 repressive Canadian > jurisprudence. A relatively unexplored academic genre, queer Canadian poetry=E2=80=94- > lesbian, trans, gay, queer, two-spirited=E2=80=94-articulates and challeng= es the often > problematic categories of longing and belonging in a diverse nation. > > Contributions on any area of queer desire in Canadian poetry and/or on queer > writings by Canadian poets are welcome, including original research and theory. > Possible topics may include the history of queer poetry in Canada; the post =E2=80=9969 > emergence of a =E2=80=9Cgay basement=E2=80=9D press; situated desires; dif= ference; subversion > and destabilization; the forbidden; political and oppositional desire; camp and > style; issues of class and underclass; colonialist and diasporic desires; > gender and engendering; the body and abilities; straight and bent; and > comparative approaches. Length: ideally 18-25 pages, but others will also be > considered. > > Poets may include (but are not limited to) Daniel David Moses, Natalie > Stephens, Trish Salah, Douglas LePan, Ian Iqbal Rashid, Robert Finch, Dionne > Brand, Monika Oikawa, E.A. Lacey, Daryl Hine, Dorothy Livesay, Daphne Marlatt, > Betsy Warland, Ian Young, Christine Donald, Patrick Anderson, John Barton, > Tamai Kobayashi, bill bissett, Andy Quan, H. Nigel Thomas, John Grube. > > _Canadian Poetry_ is a refereed journal devoted to the study of poetry from all > periods in Canada. Submissions should follow the MLA Style Manual. Please mail > papers in duplicate, with a copy on diskette (MS Word), with SASE; or email as > an attachment (MS Word). Deadline 1 Aug 05. Inquiries welcome. > > Dr Andrew Lesk, Guest Editor andrew.lesk@utoronto.ca > Canadian Poetry http://andrewlesk.com > c/o Department of English > University of Toronto 416-978-2885 Office > Larkin 202B, 6 Hoskin Ave 416-978-4949 Fax > Toronto ON M5S 1H8 > > ________________________________________ > > List Info (including sub/unsub data): > http://www.qempire.com/qstudy > ________________________________________ =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:55:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Tiffany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Tiffany by Julu [this is bright new text] aural-phone, uterine tendrils, extrusions, circulations of internal fluids striations, lamina, internal of Tiffany, external of alan, it is closed languagemyself out! Field two: Protocol Return Echo Protocol! Field three: Deployment of paid leasing schemata! Field Four: Tiffany Tiffany Field! Field Four: Tiffanyout the asshole! Children on the tip! The women see the children! The men see nothing! I make a building on Media Moo. Description set. look Tiffany .dense entanglement of liquid, blood, pissby Julu [this is bright new text] aural-phone, uterine tendrils, extrusions, circulations of internal fluids striations, lamina, internal of Tiffany, external of alan, it is closed languagesorry for all of them! I promise to do better! Even _here_ I take up too much of your time! signed, Alan, Jennifer, Julu, Nikuko, the continuity girl, Travis, Trevor, and Tiffany _the continuity girlve set forth. I don't recognize myself, you-know-language and all. Jennifer and Julu have never been here; Jennifer and Julu have moved on. Tiffany dense entanglement of fluid, you-knowin a sentence. I'll name my cunt for him. One of these days, and so much for oppositional structures. N*Gendering Discourse Squeezing my Susans, I wrapped my Clara around Tiffany's slim Honey. Trats own. girl:ok:235701:2:lover:girl lover:yes:235701:1:boy:lover groybirl:suppose so:235705:2:lulu:groybirl honey:yes:235708:0:tiffany:honey honey:yes:235710:3:tiffanywith a vengeance elsewhere on the culture seen. It shoot outs from the skirts of the chora-woman. It leaks literarily across the floor, replies Tiffany, laughing. It puddles. It makes thelagellation, every sexual perversion, murder, and sui- cide were among the usual highlights of their gatherings. Paul Tabori, The Natural Science of Stupidity. The Last Word Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aldon, I am about two-thirds of the way through INTEGRAL MUSIC and it is a fascinating and necessary (obviously) companion to BLACK CHANT. Great stuff. Tyrone -----Original Message----- From: ALDON L NIELSEN Sent: Jan 7, 2005 10:27 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review "the thoughts of a small person are usually small." --Robert Corbett "the thoughts of a turtle are all turtle." --R.W. Emerson <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 09:09:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What are you afraid of by being so defensive about Houlihan's point of view, instead of discussing her objections with some intellect? -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hoerman, Michael A" To: Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review > http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 09:09:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: FW: FOR SALE: Wessex Bookstore In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This is truly a great bookstore, and I hope someone who has the money and the time and the disposition can keep it running. I find treasures in it all the time. Hilton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 414 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:30:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <000701c4f4db$a07a95e0$8dfdfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seconded. I thought Houlihan's article was pretty intelligent and interesting, if off the handle once or twice. The defensiveness and immaturity of the replies to this article are interesting in how they make a small jab bigger. Lucas -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:09 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review What are you afraid of by being so defensive about Houlihan's point of view, instead of discussing her objections with some intellect? -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hoerman, Michael A" To: Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review > http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:31:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review Comments: To: weishaus@PDX.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear All, I also have noticed an aggression, and possibly even a degree of sexism, in the responses to Joan Houlihan's article (which I have read but in which I have no further interest). Perhaps I wrongly associate the pejorative word "shrill" with a negative attitude to a woman speaking in public, especially as, in this case, it was also applied--or implied--to our President. Mairead >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 01/07/05 12:09 PM >>> What are you afraid of by being so defensive about Houlihan's point of view, instead of discussing her objections with some intellect? -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hoerman, Michael A" To: Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review > http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 09:55:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <000701c4f4db$a07a95e0$8dfdfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii One: I have read Houlihan. That is why I know almost exactly what she will say. Shameful for a critic of poetry to not actually read. And they should know about this in Boston, since Harvard basically taught us all how to read (not Yale). Two: I can no longer read her. I spent December trying to read David Brooks, but threw the book across the room when I realized that there was no depth at all in the book. It makes one miss Russell Baker who was funny as sin, but also knew where the bodies were buried. Our Mr. Brooks is a naif that Safire could take down in one round. This is to say that I have done my time reading the work of those I disagree with and on a more comprehensive scale than about probably anyone on this list. So I am not reading Houlihan, who is jejune compared to so many others to the left and right of her. Three: I don't really have confidence that either of her standard bearers here read that much better, so there is no reason to engage. We do not lack for anti-language readers on this list, and most of them can read and write quite well, thank you. It would be nice to hear from some of them, but they didn't always abide by the netiquette of Poetics. So, my response was quick and cryptic, but not defensive. From here on in, I have no comment, neither on Boston nor on this stale and woebegone debate. Robert -- "A child of five could understand this. Someone send a child of five." -- Groucho Marx Joel Weishaus wrote: What are you afraid of by being so defensive about Houlihan's point of view, instead of discussing her objections with some intellect? -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hoerman, Michael A" To: Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review > http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 14:36:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert makes no mention of my email to him attempting, as argument for discourse, a comparison between contemporary art's broad evolutions = from the days of the single defining aesthetic of Pollock, for example, to the = current scene, where Pollock-level artists like Olafur Eliason defy = categorizations of form, technique or voice and are therefore able to carry art into new dimensions. =20 Terminalizing experimental poetry with terms like avant or post-avant = better serves after an apex has been reached and the stars are falling. You = don't hear any serious visual artist or arts professional referring to any visual = "avant." The notion is ridiculous, conjuring images straight outta Scorcese's = Life Lessons, with Nick Nolte ravaging himself onto a canvas. It is = interesting as can be, but vis-=E0-vis the current pluralism, is it an alternative? When Silliman and Bernstein say "school of quietude" and "official = verse culture," these pejoratives help to keep things healthy. Despite being = a bit dismissive, they engage a range of inputs, thus contributing to = discourse. Disallowing criticism with broad swipes, walling oneself off from = perceived "other,"--who can be classified as somehow inferior (unworthy of even hearing?)--safely eliminates discourse, but what with it? Michael Hoerman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:11:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mairead, My responses are not sexist. They are direct and cutting, but Ms. Houlihan is as well. Ms. is a sign of respect from where I hail, but we do it use it to belittle people. Teasing is a southern vice, but when you have a thoroughly ironic culture (cf. Ireland), that is what you get. It don't mean we wouldn't serve her delicious repast if she visited, but having read her too much I know that she never says anything of interest about actual poems. But let us do read: 1) After a year of metaphorical rocks with unintelligible notes affixed to them crashing through my window and with the tire-squeal of the Winter-Wolfe-Skanky-Possum gang still ringing in my ears, was happy to have a chance to curl up with a hot cup of tea and this respected practitioner's description of what's “best” about such lines as: "no dirt aliens, don't waste good mascara ... " 2) Whatever else can be said of them, the first-person-anecdotal-narrative-confessional (aka 'mainstream') poems that have been outnumbered in this volume by such writings as the above, can at least be critically sorted (some are clearly better than others, regardless of whether or not they fit a particular editor or critic's 'taste'). 3) Fortunately, I had Hejinian's clear prose to guide me. For enlightenment on her selection process, I returned to her introduction: "Dynamic, ever-changing, poetry (and American poetry in particular) is a site of perpetual transitions and unpredictable metamorphoses, but there is no end point in poetry." Comment on no.1: Isn't Houlihan polemical, sarcastic and condescending ("unintelligible notes," "Winter-Wolfe-Skanky-Possum", "respected practictioner." ) There is no gender for pungent language. Comment on no. 2: She can't read LiP, since she can't sort it. She has no measure to weigh the worth of each poem. Houlihan wants to know what poem is best absolutely. This means she wants a poll and a canon. Which relates to number 3 Comment on no 3: Failing to be able to read the poetry, she goes to Heijinian's distinctly clear prose. And fails to note that Heijinian disagrees strongly with her canonizing, cherry-picking technique: "there is no end point to poetry." Yes, we can make local discriminations and say what we like. Aesthetic ideas are concepts. We can discuss them and we wouldn't discuss something that had no content (oh, wait a minute, that is idealistic). But they have no grounding. You can't a priori or rationally choose between them. You can't set up a metric. Heijinian knows her Kant far better than Houlihan. Game match set to Heijinian. My question to Houlihan is why do the review (or not review: aside from lazy selections from two poems, she has nothing specific (and nothing specific to say about the selections either) in the first place when she has nothing to say about the poems. She is simply pontificating about what she thinks is common sense. I reserve comment about what is common about this sense, but Houlihan simply wants to claim that there is no reading of LP or LiP. I think there is strong evidence to believe that many, starting with Fence and Verse but spreading much more widely than this column not worth the paper it is written on, think otherwise. And to Hoerman: I disagree that this is equivalent to Silliman's School of Quietude jab. That is accurate and clever. Houlihan just represents a certain institution giving off steam as it realizes it is losing a grip. Geez, find a critic who at least can read. They are out there. Of course, there is always a danger that they will give up cherished principles in the light of evidence (cf. Empson). Robert Mairead Byrne wrote: Dear All, I also have noticed an aggression, and possibly even a degree of sexism, in the responses to Joan Houlihan's article (which I have read but in which I have no further interest). Perhaps I wrongly associate the pejorative word "shrill" with a negative attitude to a woman speaking in public, especially as, in this case, it was also applied--or implied--to our President. Mairead >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 01/07/05 12:09 PM >>> What are you afraid of by being so defensive about Houlihan's point of view, instead of discussing her objections with some intellect? -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hoerman, Michael A" To: Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review > http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:14:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pamela Lu Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable an example of pure churchiness on Houlihan's part: =20 "The truth is, as Hejinian herself admits, there is no "bestness" in the church of new writing and that's because there can be no "bestness" when there is no means to determine whether or not one poem, or even one line = of a poem, is better than another, when the field of poetry itself, built on = a tradition of genius, human emotion, and the need to express universal = and profound truths through the most powerful and compressed language one is = able to wield, is held in so little esteem by Hejinian and her fellow practitioners that they dispense with the craft required to achieve = their best, and instead promote a cult-like worship of the idea that everyone = and everything is equal, that no poem shall be left behind." =20 This pretty much encapsulates the frankly fanatical-sounding criteria = that Houlihan seems to want to use to delimit the field of poetry. To attempt = to corner the market on "genius", "human emotion", "truths", and "powerful = and compressed language" by denouncing a counter-tradition that in its own = ways is doing all of these things, is persecutory and manipulative indeed.=20 =20 I did appreciate the avant/post-avant roundtable discussion that = Houlihan hosted a while back ( http://www.bostoncomment.com/debate.html). I guess = I was foolish to hope that some of that discussion would rub off on her. =20 I guess the wars continue, but as a reader I often just want to live in = a border-free zone... go where I please without having to show my papers = at checkpoints A or B or C all the time... o readers, o refugees... =20 -Pam ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:23:42 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amen, Pamela. Tyrone Williams -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lu Sent: Jan 7, 2005 3:14 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review an example of pure churchiness on Houlihan's part: "The truth is, as Hejinian herself admits, there is no "bestness" in the church of new writing and that's because there can be no "bestness" when there is no means to determine whether or not one poem, or even one line of a poem, is better than another, when the field of poetry itself, built on a tradition of genius, human emotion, and the need to express universal and profound truths through the most powerful and compressed language one is able to wield, is held in so little esteem by Hejinian and her fellow practitioners that they dispense with the craft required to achieve their best, and instead promote a cult-like worship of the idea that everyone and everything is equal, that no poem shall be left behind." This pretty much encapsulates the frankly fanatical-sounding criteria that Houlihan seems to want to use to delimit the field of poetry. To attempt to corner the market on "genius", "human emotion", "truths", and "powerful and compressed language" by denouncing a counter-tradition that in its own ways is doing all of these things, is persecutory and manipulative indeed. I did appreciate the avant/post-avant roundtable discussion that Houlihan hosted a while back ( http://www.bostoncomment.com/debate.html). I guess I was foolish to hope that some of that discussion would rub off on her. I guess the wars continue, but as a reader I often just want to live in a border-free zone... go where I please without having to show my papers at checkpoints A or B or C all the time... o readers, o refugees... -Pam ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:28:58 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable On 7 Jan 2005 at 12:30, Lucas Klein wrote: > I thought Houlihan's article was pretty intelligent and interesting, > if off the handle once or twice. Just so. We may disagree about where it is off the handle once or twice, I suppose, but what is wrong with what she says when she says, for example, this: _____________ No, dirt aliens: don't waste good mascara, fiber gives you confi- dence. Spin doctors vs. gravity, do you spandex wooden leg plus spaz hemp tempi seize the fey crawlspatiality creatures peel off. Barbie pro-tons slobber the manual seedling wrapped in human skin. Happy puppy preconscious vouchers don't brownnose your pal's girlfriend, a swagger unanointed affect in its gob phase. Automated preparation H=97a non-goosing, a midriff melody=97stir the rack up=85mere child has her permit. --Bruce Andrews, =93from Dang Me=94 Stacked circles (rain down) say green it releases nothing. Bundled wires. Ellsworth Kelly strides from one red iceberg to the next. Each face projects onto antennae forging a domain expressed as a skewered pod. Transparency behind a desk elusive plunge. A dissection of thought into its components the weight of meat up the wrong street the wrong backdoor. The blazer missed too as the wiry one observed. Someone slipped him diet Orangina and he went ballistic. The whole staff crayoned their names onto the good luck card while unwitting partygoers waited for the elevator. Mogul and musician separated at birth one suggested. Hubris. The directions very specific and yet so many stood idle. She ravished in black. He charmed in lime. --Mark Bibbins, =93from Blasted Fields of Clover Bring Harrowing and Regretful Sighs=94 I chose these two poems randomly (there are plenty of other examples to wonder at, these two just happen to appear at the beginning of the book). Lyn Hejinian did not respond to my request for an interview for this piece, so I can only try to guess at the criteria for selection in general. But even comparing these two poems to each other is like comparing two people speaking in tongues: who sounds better? Whatever else can be said of them, the first-person-anecdotal- narrative-confessional (aka =93mainstream=94) poems that have been outnumbered in this volume by such writings as the above, can at least be critically sorted (some are clearly better than others, regardless of whether or not they fit a particular editor or critic's =93taste=94). Basic standards relating to the craft of writing in general, such as non-clich=E9d phrases, use of momentum and pacing, lack of unintentional ambiguities and other grammatical problems, as well as evidence of an organizing intelligence, a sense of inevitability, a convincing and/or compelling style and voice and so forth are at least available to the reader in, for lack of a better word, the =93mainstream=94 poem. Poetry, as Pound observed rightly, should be at least as well-written as prose. Further, it bears reflection that while Pound could improve Eliot's poems through application of standards of craft, no such improvement can take place for either of the poems I've excerpted, simply because there is no way to discern any purpose or aim. _______________________________ Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:33:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: Michael Baskinski MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII If you're in the Buffalo area, you can hear (see) Michael Basinski at the Albright Knox. He is the Director of the Poetry Collection at UB and is a poet and performance artist, and has appeared in Europe and the US. I've discovered that he has also appeared in one of Buffalo's Canadian connections, Karl Jirgens Rampike. Mike is a vivacious reader and invariably draws loud applease The Albright-Knox art gallery will be open January 28, free and the poetry reasings, sponsored by Just Buffalo, will be between 6 and 8 pm. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:42:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: Jonathon Skinner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jonathan Skinner is produces the book-length magazine "ecopoetics", a gathering of explorations into the relationships between our imaginations and our environment. The success of his work has been growing, and now has received--indirectly--considerable, and perhaps unintended support from Angus Fletch's "New Theory of American Poetry" Angus Fletcher has a supple and engaging style, and has provided a highly interesting historical background, a grounding for what more recent poets have been doing. Jonathan Skinner is also a poet, who redefines the sense of "engagement" so if you're in the Buffalo area January 28, come to the Albright-Knox for the 6-8 pm poetry readings sponsored by Just Buffalo, thanks to Mike Kelleher. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:49:36 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <20050107201126.86626.qmail@web50410.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 7 Jan 2005 at 12:11, Robert Corbett wrote: > ... Houlihan simply wants to claim that there is no reading of LP or LiP. > I think there is strong evidence to believe that many, starting with > Fence and Verse but spreading much more widely than this column not > worth the paper it is written on, think otherwise.< This is merely an appeal to authority without establishing that it's an authority anyone but a very few people would recognize as an authority. It's the "Can Forty Readers Of Fence Be Wrong" argument, and it's fallacious on the face of it if that is all you can offer to support the notion that LP or LiP poetry can be read. It may be that LP or LiP poetry can be read, but the demonstration of that is to show how it can be read, not to claim that some group that claims it can be read has collected itself together and published a magazine or two. That's just politics. The question is what do you mean when you say LP or LiP poetry can be read? What do you mean when you say that? Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 16:58:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable WRITING WORKSHOPS AT THE POETRY PROJECT KEEPING IT SIMPLE/LOOKING FOR THE LIGHT =AD PATRICIA SPEARS JONES TUESDAYS AT 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 22ND "The quality of light by which we scrutinize our lives has direct bearing upon the product which we live...It is within this light that we form those ideas by which we pursue our magic and make it realized. This is poetry as illumination." =AD from =B3Poetry is Not a Luxury=B2 by Audre Lorde. =B3This is a poetry workshop that takes the poetry of illumination to mean the poetry of experience. How we scrutinize, how we elucidate our lives through words and rhythms, how we make our poems bring new ways of thinking about our lives. We will focus on the basics: line, stanza, cadence, meter, diction, syntax, and point of view -=AD the elements that make a poem. We will also read contemporary poets including Audre Lorde, Maureen Owen, Amy Gerstler, Shara= n Strange, Lee Young Lee, Jeanne Marie Beaumont, Frank O'Hara, Lorenzo Thomas= , and Bob Kaufman.=B2 Patricia Spears Jones is an award-winning poet and playwright, and author of The Weather That Kills. Students must submit 5-10 pg. work samples before the class begins. FINDING THE & THEN SOME THERE THERE =AD MERRY FORTUNE THURSDAYS at 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 24TH Film of Dreyer, writing of Mayer, painting of Traylor. An identifiable poet =B3voice=B2 is a desirable, comfortable and utilitarian achievement. But what potential or beautiful mystery lurks beyond carefully cultivated form, tendency, technique, habit and boundary. Exploring the processes, qualities and aesthetics of all art forms we will collectively discover commonalities= , and fearlessly apprehend what we may learn to expand our poetic values and vocabularies as well as our very minds. Merry Fortune is the author of Ghosts By Albert Ayler, Ghosts By Albert Ayler (Futurepoem). HYPNOSIS AND CREATIVITY =AD MAGGIE DUBRIS FRIDAYS AT 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 25TH =B3Hypnotic and trance states have been used for centuries by shamans, mystic= s and visionaries. In this five week workshop, we will study techniques for self-hypnosis that allow a writer to easily access the creative flow state. We will explore the use of hypnotic tools to generate images, to increase creative focus, to switch gears from a day job into writing, and to circumvent creative blocks. We will also discuss the use of hypnosis to vividly recall memories, and its use in conjunction with other creative tools such as automatic writing.=B2 A $20 materials fee covers four of Dubris=B9s hypnosis CDs, three of which are specifically geared to writing. Maggie Dubris is the author of Skels (Soft Skull Press 2004), and Weep Not, My Wanton (Black Sparrow Press 2002). She is also employed as a professiona= l hypnotist.=20 POETRY AND MUSIC =AD DREW GARDNER FRIDAYS at 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN APRIL 8TH =B3A workshop investigating the relation of music and poetry, comparing the languages of poetry and music and asking questions about how they can be combined and how they might illuminate each other. What are the poetic implications of improvisation? What are the musical implications of everyda= y speech? What does our experience of poetry imply about how we experience sound and how does our listening affect our writing? We will read and liste= n to Harry Partch, Morton Feldman, Leo Smith, Pauline Oliveros, Thoreau, Nathaniel Mackey and others, keep listening notebooks and collaborate with guest musicians. No musical background required.=B2 Drew Gardner is the autho= r of Sugar Pill (Krupskaya) and conducts the Poetics Orchestra, an ensemble featuring poetry and structured improvisation. A LAB: POST-CONCEPTUAL POETRIES =AD ROBERT FITTERMAN SATURDAYS AT 12PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 26 =B3What happens when we ask ourselves not if the poem =B3could have been done better, but whether it could have been done otherwise=B2 (Dworkin). In post-conceptual writing, the expression is realized in the process. This workshop will be a hands-on writing lab. Each week we will write poems in-class generated by borrowed models from contemporary, 21st Century poetry. Some of these experiments might include: sampling, bastardization, procedural writing, mixed media, collaboration, etc.=B2 Robert Fitterman is the author of 9 books of poetry including: Metropolis XXX (Edge Books), Metropolis 16-29 (Coach House Press) and Metropolis 1-15 (Sun & Moon Press)= . *ANNOUNCEMENT FROM JEROME ROTHENBERG* This is to let a number of you know that I'm starting -- indefatigably -- o= n a new project of some size: a Romantic and postromantic (including early modern) gathering conceived as a nineteenth-century sequel or prequel to Poems for the Millennium. My co-editor and the true originator of the project is Jeffrey Robinson, whom some of you may know already as a scholar of English Romanticism and a marvelous voice in connecting that germinal moment and movement to the most innovative and radical poetries of our own time and place. The publisher, as with Poems for the Millennium, will be the University of California Press. =20 Our plan is to trace a line or several lines of work -- both poetry and poetics -- from the late eighteenth-century post-enlightenment to the early twentieth-century eruption of experimental and avant-garde modernism. Like what Pierre Joris and I did in Poems for the Millennium, such a gathering, as we conceive it, would be international in scope (with a focus, for obvious reasons, on all of Europe and all of the Americas) and would attemp= t to restore a sense of the revolutionary and transformative nature of Romanticism and postromanticism as they were at the time of their inception= . We would also aim, as before, to reach beyond literature as such and to incorporate both extraliterary forms of language experiment and the vast range of ethnopoetic discoveries that were prevalent throughout the nineteenth century. By so doing we aim to recapture a great body of poetry (canonical as well as non-canonical) that was stripped of its counterpoetic potential and too often denied by many of those who were in fact among its true inheritors. =20 =20 Jeffrey Robinson and I view this not only as "our" project but as a potentially collective work, in which we would call on the knowledge and th= e passions of those of you who share our sense of the romantic as a principal starting point for much that has followed. Our primary search is for works of poetry -- broadly defined -- but we are also tracking down critical and scholarly writings, including (very much so) related work and commentaries by later poets and other active practitioners, among them many of those for whom Romanticism as such was or remains a problematic value. Beyond that w= e have a desperate need for translations -- either suggestions of poetry already translated or offers to join with us in the crucial work of creatin= g or transcreating new translations that will conserve and forcefully carry the old works back to the domain of the new. =20 As with Poems for the Millennium, when Pierre Joris and I began it, we have only a first, still dim presentiment of where this will carry us. What we're offering, then, is a genuine call both for translations and for consultation and assistance that will open the project to all of you who want to have a voice in it. =20 Jerome Rothenberg,=20 on behalf of Jeffrey Robinson and myself =20 jrothenberg@cox.net Jeffrey.C.Robinson@colorado.edu The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 14:47:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Paul Catafago Subject: A great Chinese poet and the Nobel Prize (OPEN, especially Lit Profs) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Our organization, Movement One:Creative Coalition, a New York based arts and eduaction non-profit that amongst other things has originated and organized the annual Queens International Poetry Festival, has begun a campaign to have Huang Xiang, the great Chinese poet, recognized with the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2005. Imprisoned twelve years- and twice put on death row- because he was the organizaer of the Democracy Wall Movement during the Cutlural Revolution, Huang Xiang is a poet whose work has been compared to that of Pablo Neruda's, Anna Ahkmatova's, Walt Whitman's and Nazim Hikmet (who ironically was imprisoned twelve years in his own native country- Turkey). Though less known than other Chinese writers (his work is still banned in China), Huang Xiang has had over fifteen books published, and just last year, Mellen Press put out the first book of English translations of his work, A Bilingual edition of Poetry Out Of Communist China by Huang Xiang. Currently, Huang Xiang and his wife, the writer Qiuxao Yulan live in Pittsburgh, hosted by the International Network of the Cities of Asylum (whose President is Russell Banks). Under the rules set forth by the Nobel Committee, there are four types of individuals who can nominate someone for the Nobel: 1)members of the Swedish Academy or similar academy (therefore, we believe you are eligible if you are a member of the Academy of American Poets 2)Professors of Literature or Linguistics at a university or college 3)Past winners of the Nobel Prize 4)Presdent of a "Society of Authors" such as PEN, etc. If you fit any of those criteria, we urge you nominate Huang Xiang for the Nobel Prize in Literature. For more information, click on the nobel campaign link on our website, or write back to me. Thank you Paul Catafago Executive Director Movement One: Creative Coalition 46-15 90th Street Elmhurst, NY 11373 (718) 592-5958 paulcatafago@movementone.org www.movementone.org "The Source Is One" Poetry Project wrote: WRITING WORKSHOPS AT THE POETRY PROJECT KEEPING IT SIMPLE/LOOKING FOR THE LIGHT ­ PATRICIA SPEARS JONES TUESDAYS AT 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 22ND "The quality of light by which we scrutinize our lives has direct bearing upon the product which we live...It is within this light that we form those ideas by which we pursue our magic and make it realized. This is poetry as illumination." ­ from ³Poetry is Not a Luxury² by Audre Lorde. ³This is a poetry workshop that takes the poetry of illumination to mean the poetry of experience. How we scrutinize, how we elucidate our lives through words and rhythms, how we make our poems bring new ways of thinking about our lives. We will focus on the basics: line, stanza, cadence, meter, diction, syntax, and point of view -­ the elements that make a poem. We will also read contemporary poets including Audre Lorde, Maureen Owen, Amy Gerstler, Sharan Strange, Lee Young Lee, Jeanne Marie Beaumont, Frank O'Hara, Lorenzo Thomas, and Bob Kaufman.² Patricia Spears Jones is an award-winning poet and playwright, and author of The Weather That Kills. Students must submit 5-10 pg. work samples before the class begins. FINDING THE & THEN SOME THERE THERE ­ MERRY FORTUNE THURSDAYS at 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 24TH Film of Dreyer, writing of Mayer, painting of Traylor. An identifiable poet ³voice² is a desirable, comfortable and utilitarian achievement. But what potential or beautiful mystery lurks beyond carefully cultivated form, tendency, technique, habit and boundary. Exploring the processes, qualities and aesthetics of all art forms we will collectively discover commonalities, and fearlessly apprehend what we may learn to expand our poetic values and vocabularies as well as our very minds. Merry Fortune is the author of Ghosts By Albert Ayler, Ghosts By Albert Ayler (Futurepoem). HYPNOSIS AND CREATIVITY ­ MAGGIE DUBRIS FRIDAYS AT 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 25TH ³Hypnotic and trance states have been used for centuries by shamans, mystics and visionaries. In this five week workshop, we will study techniques for self-hypnosis that allow a writer to easily access the creative flow state. We will explore the use of hypnotic tools to generate images, to increase creative focus, to switch gears from a day job into writing, and to circumvent creative blocks. We will also discuss the use of hypnosis to vividly recall memories, and its use in conjunction with other creative tools such as automatic writing.² A $20 materials fee covers four of Dubris¹s hypnosis CDs, three of which are specifically geared to writing. Maggie Dubris is the author of Skels (Soft Skull Press 2004), and Weep Not, My Wanton (Black Sparrow Press 2002). She is also employed as a professional hypnotist. POETRY AND MUSIC ­ DREW GARDNER FRIDAYS at 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN APRIL 8TH ³A workshop investigating the relation of music and poetry, comparing the languages of poetry and music and asking questions about how they can be combined and how they might illuminate each other. What are the poetic implications of improvisation? What are the musical implications of everyday speech? What does our experience of poetry imply about how we experience sound and how does our listening affect our writing? We will read and listen to Harry Partch, Morton Feldman, Leo Smith, Pauline Oliveros, Thoreau, Nathaniel Mackey and others, keep listening notebooks and collaborate with guest musicians. No musical background required.² Drew Gardner is the author of Sugar Pill (Krupskaya) and conducts the Poetics Orchestra, an ensemble featuring poetry and structured improvisation. A LAB: POST-CONCEPTUAL POETRIES ­ ROBERT FITTERMAN SATURDAYS AT 12PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 26 ³What happens when we ask ourselves not if the poem ³could have been done better, but whether it could have been done otherwise² (Dworkin). In post-conceptual writing, the expression is realized in the process. This workshop will be a hands-on writing lab. Each week we will write poems in-class generated by borrowed models from contemporary, 21st Century poetry. Some of these experiments might include: sampling, bastardization, procedural writing, mixed media, collaboration, etc.² Robert Fitterman is the author of 9 books of poetry including: Metropolis XXX (Edge Books), Metropolis 16-29 (Coach House Press) and Metropolis 1-15 (Sun & Moon Press). *ANNOUNCEMENT FROM JEROME ROTHENBERG* This is to let a number of you know that I'm starting -- indefatigably -- on a new project of some size: a Romantic and postromantic (including early modern) gathering conceived as a nineteenth-century sequel or prequel to Poems for the Millennium. My co-editor and the true originator of the project is Jeffrey Robinson, whom some of you may know already as a scholar of English Romanticism and a marvelous voice in connecting that germinal moment and movement to the most innovative and radical poetries of our own time and place. The publisher, as with Poems for the Millennium, will be the University of California Press. Our plan is to trace a line or several lines of work -- both poetry and poetics -- from the late eighteenth-century post-enlightenment to the early twentieth-century eruption of experimental and avant-garde modernism. Like what Pierre Joris and I did in Poems for the Millennium, such a gathering, as we conceive it, would be international in scope (with a focus, for obvious reasons, on all of Europe and all of the Americas) and would attempt to restore a sense of the revolutionary and transformative nature of Romanticism and postromanticism as they were at the time of their inception. We would also aim, as before, to reach beyond literature as such and to incorporate both extraliterary forms of language experiment and the vast range of ethnopoetic discoveries that were prevalent throughout the nineteenth century. By so doing we aim to recapture a great body of poetry (canonical as well as non-canonical) that was stripped of its counterpoetic potential and too often denied by many of those who were in fact among its true inheritors. Jeffrey Robinson and I view this not only as "our" project but as a potentially collective work, in which we would call on the knowledge and the passions of those of you who share our sense of the romantic as a principal starting point for much that has followed. Our primary search is for works of poetry -- broadly defined -- but we are also tracking down critical and scholarly writings, including (very much so) related work and commentaries by later poets and other active practitioners, among them many of those for whom Romanticism as such was or remains a problematic value. Beyond that we have a desperate need for translations -- either suggestions of poetry already translated or offers to join with us in the crucial work of creating or transcreating new translations that will conserve and forcefully carry the old works back to the domain of the new. As with Poems for the Millennium, when Pierre Joris and I began it, we have only a first, still dim presentiment of where this will carry us. What we're offering, then, is a genuine call both for translations and for consultation and assistance that will open the project to all of you who want to have a voice in it. Jerome Rothenberg, on behalf of Jeffrey Robinson and myself jrothenberg@cox.net Jeffrey.C.Robinson@colorado.edu The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. Paul Catafago Executive Director Movement One: Creative Coalition 46-15 90th Street Elmhurst, NY 11373 (718)592-5958 paulcatafago@movementone.org www.movementone.org "The Source Is One" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:19:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: terra1@SONIC.NET >, Wendy Kramer , kris , Joseph Lease , Rachel Levitsky , MarcusRising@aol.com , Michelle , Chris Nealon , sunny nordmarken , akilah oliver , Donna Perriere , Tim Peterson , Leila Rauf , Ellen Redbird , Doug Rice , Gayle Roberts , megan roy , julia Serano , Captain snowdon < thecaptain82@hotmail.com>, Irene Snyder , Lauren Standifer , zakary szymanski , Steven Taylor , Michelle Tea , Justin Veach , Anne Waldman , Christine Murray , Wayne Gilbert Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Transgendered Voices in 55 Words or Less - 2005 From: kari edwards Message-Id: <8831FA7E-6102-11D9-8A6A-003065AC6058@sonic.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please forward! thank you Transgendered Voices in 55 Words or Less - 2005 =A0 Transgendered Voices, Inc...a Wyoming, USA not-for-profit=20 corporation...has organized a spoken works competition for=20 Transgendered people of all types and nationalities.. =A0 The final date for receiving=A0the entries is June 1, 2005 and=20 submissions may be sent to Transgendered Voices=A0starting on February = 1,=20 2005. =A0 There will be prizes of 500 USA dollars...currently the equivalent of=20 22,000 Indian rupees...for the best spoken work and the most innovative=20= spoken work...and the total number of prizes will not be limited to two=20= prizes. =A0 An eBook of the text of the submissions and a CD of the spoken works=20 will be published and sold for the benefit of Renaissance Transgender=20 Association of Pennsylvania, USA...one of the oldest and most=20 successful transgender organizations in America.. =A0 Each year TGVoices will choose another organization from a different=20 country to support through the sales of the eBooks and CDs of that=20 year's competition.. =A0 Please review our website at www.TGVoices.org=A0to learn the full = details=20 of the competition and to download the entry application.. =A0 Please forward this email notification of the competition to all=20 friends, organizations and members of the=A0organization that you feel=20= may have interest in such a competition.. =A0 Thank You.. =A0 Elizabeth D. Jeffords - Executive Director Transgendered Voices, Inc. 3333 East Bayaud Street - Suite 111 Denver, Colorado 80209 United States of America 303-320-6630 - Telephone MyOnePenny@aol.com www.TGVoices.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 18:22:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Whoops! Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable WHOOPS! Forgot to add some pertinent info: The workshop fee is $300, which includes a one-year individual Poetry Project membership and tuition for any and all fall and spring classes. Reservations are required due to limited class space and payment must be received in advance. Please send payment and reservations to: The Poetry Project, St. Mark=B9s Church, 131 E. 10th St., NY, NY 10003. For more information please call (212) 674-0910 or e-mail info@poetryproject.com. We do accept payment via credit cards. You can either submit $ at paypal.com, or call the office with your number: 212-674-0910. Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:32:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Forest Park-Introduction Revision MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Introduction Revision: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Forest/Intro.htm This gets revised as the project goes on, and my own sense of it = clarifies. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 09:57:20 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <9C63A4713C4E3342B90428CE44806A730CE769@PHSXMB5.partners.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It always amazes me how people create dualities of two things that are = part of the same multiplicity. Instead of celebrating the multiplicity, poetry, why do some people wish = to defend a single way of defining it? Joan Houlihan admits a closed mind on the topic of LP and an assumption = that she knows what poetry is. Lyn Hejinian, admits subjectivity in her selection and an assertion that no-one can define what poetry is. The anthology must be taken in context. For me, one of the most important things LP achieves is the continued development of the written poem on the page, the poem that is and can be read without the phonological considerations of rhyme, meter, or even = line per breath of the beats and black mountain poets. As one of its most successful and innovative practitioners, Hejinian's selection of her concept of best would be an accurate indication of the = most cutting-edge of poetry that is coming out in print in the USA. Two more interesting questions that i ask are; In this pluralist poetic culture why are we still publishing anthologies = of poetry that are from single nations, like the USA, and why aren't we publishing 'the best poetry of 2004' from all over the world? And secondly, are the publication of 'the best of' anthologies, and as = has been the fashion in australia of late, anthologies based on themes; = love; childhood; war; peace; environment; humour; etc, heralding the end of mainstream publishing of single author poetry volumes? Cheers Happy new year to all poets and poetry lovers komninos |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of Hoerman, Michael A |||Sent: Friday, 7 January 2005 2:01 AM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review ||| |||http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 6/01/05 ||| --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 6/01/05 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 18:49:42 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Oops! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, I did not mean for that last post to Jerome Rothenberg to go back to the list. Richard _________________________ Richard Jeffrey Newman Associate Professor, English Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu www.ncc.edu richardjeffreynewman.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 13:48:59 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is well known that "everyone's a bastard until you get to know them" (Groucho Marx) Bernstein is a brilliant - dare we say "great" - poet - he's written a lot of poems, so a lot is not so good - and the language poets have made a major contribution to poetics and poetry. Harry is maybe aware of course of how well known and widely published he is so he doesn't really need any more accolades - although give credit or discredit wherever they are due I suppose is the story. (Better to say nothing maybe or be as positive as possible?) I don't agree with everything they (the Langpos) say or do and so on but I am glad I was "introduced to them" in 1992 on a course (one paper was on American poetry -20th Century American poetry) - I had gone back to Uni when I was 40. Language poetry was a revelation to me - I have dabbled in it - or tried to myself - and it has been some influence - cant think of anything original like al lot of those guys think of ( I mean they have big projects based on the Alphabet etc) and they think about things I just cant get my head around, but I admire their energy - so I mainly just write my "intuitive"poems (vaguely Ashberic, and very lazy because I hardly ever think about what I am writing - but is this a Langpo line? "I look up the answers to my poems after I've written them " Lol...) - but I owe a debt to them in that - as Wsytan Curnow said to me once at reading - "they give you permission" (it's strange that a poet almost feels that he/she might need permission!) he meant (permission) to write anything in any way you like - to experiment etc - doesn't mean that they write things that are "random" as such (often they are very structured and "strategic" (some use chance methods to some degree - but eg Susan Howe is has some very interesting projects and a lot of Bernstein's seemed to be (based on ) political concepts etc (but there are other things going on) the concentration on the subtleties of language, puns, parataxis and so on. (Also there is the attention to modern phiiosophical and literary theory and a lot of theorising ...which puts some people off.) I bought or photocopied many the works of the Langpos - had some good laughs ( I mean some of it is actually funny "toe tapping tintinnabulation" is a phrase from Bernstein's work I recall and Silliman has things like "A bee the size of a cat." (Juxtaposed within actual observations - eg something like "Its better with blue pen? The road veers right and the water seems to glare. Two gray people pass. A bee the size of a cat." Something like that (I made up the other sentences (although he does ask - "is it better with a blue pen") - its something like that though) I think that's either in Lit or Tjanting))* and some great reading experiences reading their works. Bruce Adeson has some witty and often just funny stuff - a bit of te 'violence' etc in there as my young friend Hamish suggested). Alan Sondheim was associated with Langpos but hs 'veered off' into a his strange project. Nick Piombino's book I have - "Theoretical Objects' - which is excellent - I took the trouble to get it for the US - he has been associated with the Langauge poets - but seems more somewhere between them and John Ashbery ..but I could be wrong ) But "Language poets" and so on is just another label such as the NY Poets/ or even The Romantics and really indicates a movement rather a particular method or style (although there maybe stylistic and strategic resemblences) pehaps the most languagy poet in NZ is a young woman called Will Joy Christie and also Tony Green has done some interesting stuff - kind of diaristic pieces - I have been accused of being postmodern and possibly a languge poet but I am not sure what kind of poet I am or whether I am one!))...someone can enlarge on this ( Idon't mean on what kind of poet I am! I mean on what is a Language poet or if there is such an animal)) I also saw Harry's naughty imputation - but Harry is Harry. Old sleepless Mr Drn Richard Taylor * I suppose one of the points of this method - apart fom the use of the - more or less - disconnected setences (parataxis) - the sentence being the major unit -it also mirrors or somewhat replicates the way we often have thoughts that seem to "come from nowhere", and if we travel on a bus or train we look out the window and note something then we have some thought -not necesarily connected to the observation - and there is also a kind of dialectical progress and a structure - quite formalistic to a degree -(it follows the Fibonnacci series - basis of the golden number or golden section - and uses the Hegelian dialectic) So Tjanting ( as one example) in that sense, is "realistic", or wags a finger at realism - something like that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Allen Conrad" To: Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 1:00 AM Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 > Dear Harry Nudel, > so I'm kissing Bernstein's ass? > > Well Harry the actual truth is that I am 99% certain > Mr. Bernstein is heterosexual. And I'm not so sure > his wife would approve of me kissing his ass. Although > it is possible to accidentally kiss someone's ass in > the shower, I doubt very much that Mr. Bernstein and > I will be showering together anytime soon. And > furthermore, since I'm such a careful person in the > shower (it's important to condition the hair properly) > it's highly unlikely I would have such an accident > occur with Mr. Bernstein or any other fellow showerer. > > Let me try to be serious (it's so difficult for me to be > serious with you Harry, but I'll try), I have fantastic > self esteem, meaning I like my poems and don't > need a crutch like kissing ass. > > Besides that, my poems and Mr. Bernstein's poems > are written on very different continents, so, if I was > the type of person to kiss ass (and I'm NOT meaning > the accident in the shower kind) I would most likely > be wasting my time with him. > > For years I had heard the frightening accounts of this > cutthroat poet Charles Bernstein. The stories DID > make me check out his poems, and some I liked, > and some not. But all kinds of wicked stories were > being told about Bernstein, none that I'm interested > in repeating (life's too exciting for gossip, at least > I think so). > > So when I heard that he was going to be giving a > reading in Philadelphia, I thought I'd show up and > get a view of this Atilla the Hun. Of course he turned > out to be rather nice, and he looks you right in the > eye when he talks, and doesn't seem to bullshit you, > all good qualities, and rare for many poets. So the > bastard wasn't a bastard afterall, and ontop of it, > I liked his poems he read to us, another thing > I wasn't so certain would happen for me. Plus, > the added bonus that he's a top of the line reader > of his poems. > > These are facts, like them or not, it's all very true. > > Bernstein didn't get where he is by writing shitty > poems and mumbling in monotone at the mic. > > But once again, my award for his poem was judged > with sincerity, and that's that. He's won the award > and I refuse to give into any pressures to change > my mind. > > Have a suspicious day wary Harry, > CAConrad > http://phillysound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 21:33:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: Re: A great Chinese poet and the Nobel Prize (OPEN, especially Lit Profs) In-Reply-To: <20050107224730.4632.qmail@web11411.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone else feel uneasy about the idea of nominating Huang Xiang for Nobel Prize when none of his poems are quoted, when more attention is paid to his biography than to his output? Certainly the writer's life has influenced the Nobel decision in the past, but usually this is pointed out to undermine the sincerity of the prize, rather than recommend someone to its ranks. I'm a huge advocate of Chinese poetry, but I've never heard of Huang Xiang outside of the context of Movement One, and I don't think I've been given anything to advocate. And as much as anyone on the Swedish Academy says that the prize is awarded to a writer without concern for anyone else writing in that language, the fact is that it took a hundred years for the Nobel committee to find anyone in Chinese literature. Gao Xingjian--laureate in 2000, whose works are also banned in mainland China--got the prize when many in China were at least as worthy (Ba Jin, Shi Zhecun, Mo Yan, Yu Hua), and in some ways it's too bad: he received his nod too recently for anyone else--including the surviving Misty Poets, such as Bei Dao, Yang Lian, Shu Ting, Jiang He--to be honored, anyway. A word of advice to Paul Catafago and the Movement One backers of Huang Xiang, anyway: the person who really matters here is Goran Malmqvist, the only Chinese scholar on the Swedish Academy. He's the one who translated Gao Xingjian's works into Swedish for the rest of the Academy to read, and he's the one whose ear you ought to bend if you want your man to get a Nobel. Lucas -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Catafago Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 5:48 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: A great Chinese poet and the Nobel Prize (OPEN, especially Lit Profs) Our organization, Movement One:Creative Coalition, a New York based arts and eduaction non-profit that amongst other things has originated and organized the annual Queens International Poetry Festival, has begun a campaign to have Huang Xiang, the great Chinese poet, recognized with the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2005. Imprisoned twelve years- and twice put on death row- because he was the organizaer of the Democracy Wall Movement during the Cutlural Revolution, Huang Xiang is a poet whose work has been compared to that of Pablo Neruda's, Anna Ahkmatova's, Walt Whitman's and Nazim Hikmet (who ironically was imprisoned twelve years in his own native country- Turkey). Though less known than other Chinese writers (his work is still banned in China), Huang Xiang has had over fifteen books published, and just last year, Mellen Press put out the first book of English translations of his work, A Bilingual edition of Poetry Out Of Communist China by Huang Xiang. Currently, Huang Xiang and his wife, the writer Qiuxao Yulan live in Pittsburgh, hosted by the International Network of the Cities of Asylum (whose President is Russell Banks). Under the rules set forth by the Nobel Committee, there are four types of individuals who can nominate someone for the Nobel: 1)members of the Swedish Academy or similar academy (therefore, we believe you are eligible if you are a member of the Academy of American Poets 2)Professors of Literature or Linguistics at a university or college 3)Past winners of the Nobel Prize 4)Presdent of a "Society of Authors" such as PEN, etc. If you fit any of those criteria, we urge you nominate Huang Xiang for the Nobel Prize in Literature. For more information, click on the nobel campaign link on our website, or write back to me. Thank you Paul Catafago Executive Director Movement One: Creative Coalition 46-15 90th Street Elmhurst, NY 11373 (718) 592-5958 paulcatafago@movementone.org www.movementone.org "The Source Is One" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 13:28:31 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <9C63A4713C4E3342B90428CE44806A730CE769@PHSXMB5.partners.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.poetryinternational.org/ this might be of interest to those on the list with a more global perspective. komninos -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 6/01/05 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 00:09:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Jews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Jews I am losing friends over this. I reach states of no return over this. I respond poorly and unfairly. I'm tired of thinking of myself, 'Jew,' and listening and watching 'Jew' return in guises I don't recognize. Needless to say: Jews did not leave the World Trade Center just before it was hit. Jews came to work that day like everyone else. It was not a Zionist conspiracy. Jews did not cause the Tsunami. Jews went through the Holocaust which killed a lot of them. Jew, Jew, Jews. Jews do not want to slaughter Palestinians. Jews do not have two navels. Jews do not have horns. Jews do not control the media. Jews do not control the daily content of the media. Jews have never eaten Christian children or killed Christian children. Jews do not run the United States. There is no world Zionist conspiracy. Jew, Jews, Jews. Most Jews are not Zionists. Most Jews are secular. Not all Jews support Israel's internal or external policies. Most Jews are not religious. Jews do not have more money than other people. Jews are not stupider or smarter than other people. Jews do not control the World Bank or world money supply. Jews are not sexier or unsexier than other people. Jews do not harbor gold. Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. Jews are not 'clannish' any more than Chinese, Arabs, Germans, Italians, or Wasps are clannish. Not all Jews believe in God or a God, and at least one rabbi I know is atheist. Jew, Jews, Jews. Jews did not steal Judaism from Blacks. The Jews did not run the slave trade. Jews are no better or worse than any other people. There was and is no Eternal Jew or Wandering Jew. Many Jews protest the policies of Israel. Jews whine no more or less than other people. If a Jew thinks Israel has the right to exist, that doesn't make him or her a Zionist. Not all Israelis are Jews and not all Jews are Israelis. If a Jew thinks Palestine has a right to exist, that doesn't make him or her anti-Jewish or anti-Israeli. Jew, Jews, Jews. Jews do not have big noses. Jews are not gutter people and don't belong to a gutter religion. Most Jewish women are not Jewish American Princesses. Most Jewish men do not wear yalmukahs or go to synagogue. Jews are not bad people. The Protocols of Zion are a forgery. Jews don't conspire any more or less than other people. There is no world-wide Jewish conspiracy. There are no local Jewish conspiracies. Jews are not anti-Christian or anti-Islam. Most Jews read the Torah as a historical document, and very few believe it literally. Very few Jews statistically are religious. Jewish men do not menstruate. No, Jews don't whine over anti-semitism. Most Jews in the United States intermarry (at least this was true a few years ago). Jews do not smell differently than other people. Jews do not stink. Jews are not dirty. Jew, Jews, Jews. Jew, Jews, Jews. Most of this is self-evident. And to be honest, it cripples me to write this. I hear some of these things over and over again. They're on the Net. They're in the streets. They're in the newspapers. I tended to ignore them. I'm writing this to clear my head. There are people who liked me who no longer like me. When I defend Jews, I'm called a Zionist or obsessed with anti-semitism. I'm neither. I want in fact the discourse to go away. I'm more concerned about anti-semitism against Arabs, even in the neighborhood I live in, in Brooklyn. But I can't let this go. It scares me. It preternaturally scares me. A son of a Holocaust survivor I know is frightened it will happen again. I don't feel that way. I watch what this sort of rhetoric does to me. I don't like it. I don't recognize myself in it. I don't think it should occur this late in the game, this 21st century of human barbarism. Be it known the Jews are no more or less barbaric, strangers, than other people. Be it known, I can't escape my heritage, the culture I was raised in. I don't want to pass or have to pass. - Aba __ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 00:17:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: it was on the verge of total connectivity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed it was on the verge of total connectivity http://www.asondheim.org/verge.jpg coming out of this room years ago now "life is but a memory" and "our future is behind us" _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 00:41:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey i'm pretty small 5'4 and in high school they called me THE ANGRY TURTLE ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 22:20:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: This poster lies: Israel is not a democracy MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/36776.php This poster lies by Arlene Eisen This poster can be seen at bus stops around San Francisco. Don't believe the hype. Photo: Arlene Eisen Israel is not a democracy. Israel is an apartheid state where the government mandates official discrimination against Palestinians, who live as second class citizens within the boundaries of Israel that the UN recognized in 1967. They are 20 percent of the Israeli population, but, in the Israeli Parliament (Knesset), they have only 12 out of 120 seats -- one of which is held by a woman. In 2001, the parliaments of Syria, Tunisia, Morocco, Sudan, Algeria, Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon all had a higher percentage of Arab women than did Israel. This poster, mounted on bus shelters around San Francisco, is a hypocritical attempt to make Israel seem like it cares about Palestinian women's liberation when it continues to deny fundamental human rights not only to Palestinian women but also to their fathers, brothers, sons and husbands. Apartheid in Israel means: l Israel is a "Jewish state" in which Jews are the majority, where Jews are entitled to special treatment and preferential laws and where any Jewish person from anywhere in the world has a right to claim Israeli citizenship. (Palestinians have no right of return to the homes they lived in before Israel pushed them out in 1948.) By privileging Jews, the state treats others as second-class citizens. Israel has no constitution, and its basic law includes no right to equality. l Jewish organizations, like the Jewish National Fund, have semi-governmental status and benefit Jews only. They have special rights to housing, land development, tax benefits. l Only those who have served in the Israeli Army (or Jewish Yeshiva students) are eligible for benefits, including access to public employment, housing, scholarships and mortgages. l Sixty-one percent of Palestinian women with (second-class) Israeli citizenship earn less than minimum wage. An Israeli Jew of European origin makes twice the average pay of a Palestinian Israeli. Of 1,710 directors and managing directors of government-recognized companies, only two are Palestinian women. There is only one Palestinian woman university lecturer in Israel and no Palestinian women high school principals. l Of the 30 areas in Israel with the highest unemployment rates, 26 are Palestinian. l Strict residential segregation is the rule in Israel. Only 8 percent of all Palestinians with (second-class) Israeli citizenship live in cities with Jewish populations, and in those cities, they live in segregated neighborhoods. l One hundred Palestinian villages within 1967 Israeli boundaries are not recognized by the Israeli government and therefore receive no electricity, water or sewer services, no paved roads, schools, hospitals or clinics. (Yet Jewish settlers are 10 percent of the population of the West Bank and Gaza and consume more than 50 percent of the water.) l Palestinians with (second-class) Israeli citizenship cannot buy land and cannot build on land they own without an Israeli permit, which is nearly impossible to secure. l Palestinian political parties admitted into the Knesset cannot stand for election if they take any position against the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land. l Palestinians with (second-class) Israeli citizenship have no freedom of movement. They cannot visit families or friends who live in the West Bank or Gaza. With the new apartheid wall, Israel has grabbed more land and forcibly separated more families. l Palestinians are subject to administrative detention for six months without any charges. Detention may be renewed indefinitely. Whenever Israel declares a state of emergency, Palestinians are subject to military rule with no civil rights. Israel holds 8,000 Palestinian political prisoners -- many of whom are women -- all of whom are separated from their families. Racism against Palestinians is on the rise. In 1998, 39 percent of Jewish youth told survey takers they "hated" Arabs, 44 percent believe "Arab" citizens should be deprived of some of their rights, 19 percent thought "we should get rid of them." And there is not even a pretense of democracy for the nearly 3.5 million Palestinians who live under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. l Since 2000, Israeli soldiers have killed 3,490 Palestinians -- 19 percent of them under the age of 18 -- and injured 28,297. As of March 2004, Israeli soldiers killed 132 Palestinian children and injured 2,500 on their way to or from school. l As of March 2004, the Israeli army destroyed and damaged nearly 20,000 homes, 30 mosques, 12 churches and 134 water wells, uprooted 35,000 olive and fruit trees, closed 850 schools and converted 23 schools into military barracks or detention centers. l According to a UN count completed in July 2004, Israel maintains 703 checkpoints and road closures in the West Bank -- a territory about the same size as the greater Bay Area. These checkpoints and the apartheid wall, which transforms many Palestinian towns into open air prisons, results in most Palestinian people being cut off from their families, schools, fields, jobs, markets, clinics and hospitals. l As a result of this destruction and travel restrictions, 85 percent of Palestinians in Gaza and 58 percent in the West Bank now live in poverty, on less than $2 a day. Data compiled by Arlene Eisen from various internationally-recognized sources. Email her at arlenesreport@yahoo.com . http://www.sfbayview.com/010505/posterlies010505.shtml Mordechai Vanunu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 23:02:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: FW: Senator Boxer on Her Objection to the Certification of Ohio's Electoral Votes MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I think members of the list might be interested in the following statement. If not, then trash it. >From: "U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer" >Subject: Senator Boxer on Her Objection to the Certification of Ohio's >Electoral Votes >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 19:07:50 -0800 > >=================================================== > >Statement by U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer on Her >Objection to the Certification of Ohio's Electoral Votes > > >For most of us in the Senate and the House, we have spent our >lives fighting for things we believe in - always fighting to >make our nation better. > >We have fought for social justice. We have fought for economic >justice. We have fought for environmental justice. We have >fought for criminal justice. > >Now we must add a new fight - the fight for electoral justice. > >Every citizen of this country who is registered to vote should >be guaranteed that their vote matters, that their vote is >counted, and that in the voting booth of their community, their >vote has as much weight as the vote of any Senator, any >Congressperson, any President, any cabinet member, or any CEO >of any Fortune 500 Corporation. > >I am sure that every one of my colleagues - Democrat, >Republican, and Independent - agrees with that statement. That >in the voting booth, every one is equal. > >So now it seems to me that under the Constitution of the United >States, which guarantees the right to vote, we must ask: > >Why did voters in Ohio wait hours in the rain to vote? Why >were voters at Kenyan College, for example, made to wait in >line until nearly 4 a.m. to vote because there were only two >machines for 1300 voters? > >Why did poor and predominantly African-American communities >have disproportionately long waits? > >Why in Franklin County did election officials only use 2,798 >machines when they said they needed 5,000? Why did they hold >back 68 machines in warehouses? Why were 42 of those machines >in predominantly African-American districts? > >Why did, in Columbus area alone, an estimated 5,000 to 10,000 >voters leave polling places, out of frustration, without >having voted? How many more never bothered to vote after they >heard about this? > >Why is it when 638 people voted at a precinct in Franklin >County, a voting machine awarded 4,258 extra votes to George >Bush. Thankfully, they fixed it - but how many other votes did >the computers get wrong? > >Why did Franklin County officials reduce the number of >electronic voting machines in downtown precincts, while adding >them in the suburbs? This also led to long lines. > >In Cleveland, why were there thousands of provisional ballots >disqualified after poll workers gave faulty instructions to >voters? > >Because of this, and voting irregularities in so many other >places, I am joining with Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones >to cast the light of truth on a flawed system which must be >fixed now. > >Our democracy is the centerpiece of who we are as a nation. >And it is the fondest hope of all Americans that we can help >bring democracy to every corner of the world. > >As we try to do that, and as we are shedding the blood of our >military to this end, we must realize that we lose so much >credibility when our own electoral system needs so much >improvement. > >Yet, in the past four years, this Congress has not done >everything it should to give confidence to all of our people >their votes matter. > >After passing the Help America Vote Act, nothing more was done. > >A year ago, Senators Graham, Clinton and I introduced >legislation that would have required that electronic voting >systems provide a paper record to verify a vote. That paper >trail would be stored in a secure ballot box and invaluable in >case of a recount. > >There is no reason why the Senate should not have taken up and >passed that bill. At the very least, a hearing should have >been held. But it never happened. > >Before I close, I want to thank my colleague from the House, >Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones. > >Her letter to me asking for my intervention was substantive and >compelling. > >As I wrote to her, I was particularly moved by her point that >it is virtually impossible to get official House consideration >of the whole issue of election reform, including these >irregularities. > >The Congresswoman has tremendous respect in her state of Ohio, >which is at the center of this fight. > >Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones was a judge for 10 years. >She was a prosecutor for 8 years. She was inducted into the >Women's Hall of Fame in 2002. > >I am proud to stand with her in filing this objection. > > >=================================================== > > >U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) sent the following letter to >Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones on January 5, 2005: > >January 5, 2005 > > >The Honorable Stephanie Tubbs Jones >1009 Longworth H.O.B. >U.S. House of Representatives >Washington, D.C. 20515 > >Dear Representative Tubbs Jones: > >I am in receipt of your letter that spelled out concerns about >the election irregularities in Ohio during the November 2004 >election. > >The fact that you are from Ohio and that you are a former judge >gives great weight and much credibility to the points you cited >and to your plea that these issues be addressed by the Congress. > >I was particularly moved by your point that it is virtually >impossible to get official House consideration of the whole >issue of election reform, including these irregularities. > >I have concluded that objecting to the electoral votes from >Ohio is the only immediate way to bring these issues to light >by allowing you to have a two-hour debate to let the American >people know the facts surrounding Ohio's election. > >I will therefore join you in your objection to the >certification of Ohio's electoral votes. Attached is my >signature on a copy of your written objection. > >Sincerely, > >Barbara Boxer >United States Senator > > >=================================================== > >For more information on Senator Boxer's record and other >information, please go to: http://www.boxer.senate.gov > >If you would like to make a comment regarding this or any other >federal matter, please feel free to do so at: >http://www.boxer.senate.gov/contact/webform.cfm > >If this message reached you in error, or if you would like to >cancel your subscription, please reply to this message with >unsubscribe in the subject line. ======================================= "It's no disgrace to come from Texas; it's just a disgrace to have to go back there." Kinky Friedman. The Prisoner of Vandam Street. ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 23:34:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Paul Catafago Subject: Re: A great Chinese poet and the Nobel Prize (OPEN, especially Lit Profs) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On reading Lucas Klein's brilliant post, I agree I should have included some of Huang Xiang's poetry. Here is some. As well, his book, "A Bilingual Edition of Poetry out of Communist China by Huang Xiang" is available through Mellen Press (www.mellenpress.com) Thanks again, Lucas, Hope you enjoy these poems. Catafago www.movementone.org All poems by Huang Xiang and translated by Andrew Emerson DRY BONES After millions of years, Millions of years in the layered earth Maybe someone will Dig up my Bones At that time He may imagine A far-distant geological age A history remote and indistinct Are these the decayed bones of his own first ancestor Or the fossil of an ancient biologic skeleton At that time, Could he imagine that This very pile of dry bones In the world once made their sound Loved Hated Mourned Cried out Agitated He may imagine That this pile of dry bones Once had a face contorted with bitterness Once had eyes that cursed in silence Once silently endured with bloodless lips tight-closed Once wrote poems as eternal as the moon and stars These are the bones of a poet These are the bones of one who while hoping, lost hope, gave up hope These are bones that furiously fought These are the bones of one who walked this world, struggled, was tempered These are the bones of a skeleton shattered and all put together again these scattered dry bones of a man These are the dry bones of jaws that ground together from hatred These are the dry bones that resisted, loudly clanking These are the dry bones that have seen the heavenly lightning strike, have listened, head-cocked, to the growing clamor of all the earth's creatures These are the dry bones of a Man After millions of years, Millions of years in the layered earth A future anthropologist Geologist Or archeologist When digging up my dead bones Will, please, under this same burning sun Raise up these remains of water and air, and Seek out the Man. (1968) SINGING ALONE Who am I I am the lonely soul of a waterfall A poem Dwelling forever in Solitude My drifting song is a dream's wandering Trace My only audience The still (1962) CHINA, YOU CAN'T REMAIN SILENT You look like a big docile sea turtle, oh China, You slowly creep along, always with your head in your shell Or dopily try to sleep, lying on a misty beach. Respond to the call of the far-off thunder-claps, To the call of the roaring gale I say, "China, you cannot, you cannot remain silent any more." On the backer of that contract for endless ages of humiliation, I see you have compliantly affixed your name and seal; You hang your head humbly before that empty promise, And generations of your descendants quietly say, "Yes." Your chance has come, oh China, History is waiting for you The whole world is intently calling and listening for you to say one word ---- "No!" (1976) SOLITARY CONFINEMENT Water Drops Are daylight's only Drops of Scenery Dreams Sharp and clear like nighttime's Bells And gongs Years of sibilant droplets' Dripping Sounds Prisoners' bare heads Ringing Drops of Deep Penetrating Gloom A thousand prisoners in This Instant A thousand dreams in This Drop (1990, in Wang Wu Prison) GUITAR On my body are two guitar strings One is the Yellow River One is the Yangtze River They are tightly strung on my back Thrumming now two vibrant syllables in my Own language: China! China! China! With every strum My body is bowed deeper in depression While the many tears of nostalgia Embracing my wafting Cries Cascade from Within me (2000) I SEE A WAR I see a war, an invisible war Being waged in everyone's facial expression Being waged in countless loudspeakers Being waged in the ever-frightened look in everyone's eyes Being waged in the nerve stems beneath everyone's cerebral cortex It is devastating everyone Devastating every part end element of people's bodies and minds It uses invisible weapons to press the attack, invisible bayonets, cannons and bombs to press the attack This is an evil war It is the intangible extension of a tangible war. It is being waged in the front windows of bookstores Waged in libraries, and in every song that is taught and sung Waged in the first year textbooks of grade-schools Waged in every actor's actions and lines and ever performer's posturing, all exactly the same I see bayonets and soldiers patrolling the lines of my poems To search into everyone's consience A stupid, benighted and harsh power oppresses all, dominates all In face of this terrible unprecedented attack I see sexual relations in decay The living in a state of mental disorder Schizophrenia spreading unchecked, individuality eliminated Ah, you invisible war, you evil war You are the continuation and extension of 2,500 years of war to consolidate feudal power You are the concentration and expansion of 2,500 years of war to enslave people's minds You bomb You blast You kill You slaughter But human nature does not die, conscience does not die, people's freedom of spirit does not die The natural instincts and desires of man's body and soul Can never be wrenched away or wholly destroyed 1969 SILENT GRAINFIELD IN THE DISTANCE A silent grainfield in the distance On the slope of a hill forms a dark-brown river-bank. Small clustered violets bob on the wind, From time to time nodding their heads to look at the two of us. We quietly bow and give them little smiles, My darling, why are your charming lips so pale? Are you thinking of some long-gone far-off matter, Or of the dimming sunlight of the spring? Hear far-off, there's the sound of a dike collapsing, Like the sound of the smacking lips of a cow munching grass; The wind bears the sticky sweetness of budding leaves, Our fog-befuddled youth returns into our hearts. And so we two become children once again, Unable now to recognize each other, under the skies of another time. Oh, the honeyed grief, the bitter tears, Should we really know each other, my darling . . . . . From "My Symphony", 1977 WE HAVE BEEN KEPT APART FOR SO LONG We have been kept apart for so long a time, my wife So long that the puppy yoou were raising has grown up. So long that even the sparrows beneath the eaves have grown old. The love-birds that you kept in a cage have died because you forgot to feed them; the cloud-white long-haired rabbit you kept has run off for lack of loving care. My wife, we have been kept apart for so long At this time of reunion, oh my wife, why does your silence hurt me so? You come out of your small kitchen, your apron giving off the odor of cooking, a hint of laundry soap on your wash-whitened hands. Why do you turn your face away from me? Why do you hide your two small hands behind your back? Turn your head towards me, my wife, I've already noticed that black mole of deep-hidden sadness on your female forehead. Stretch out your hands to me, oh my wife, let me gently kiss that pair of small rough hands that have suffered for the world Your bitterness, o'erlain with bloody scratches, eats at my heart. Written at night, hurriedly, under a blanket, in WangWu Prison, 1988 WOMB I haven't left the stage. The backdrop sky is still my deep-blue gaze. A pregnant black bear hides in the cliff-top. I return into myself. Bulging rocks are my starting muscles. Flood waters recede. Coiled behind me The whole thing hoary as an ancient mammoth pulls back on two sides Mountain peaks peel back. The Earth's surface splits open. The earth opens up a sloping doorway. I don a zebra. A golden leopard. A peacock's tailfeathers, cruelly beautiful. Waves of water buffet me. Swelling roots split me. The pillared cliffs, deep red in the setting sun, are motionless in collapse, My guts daubed with red, and all seized up. A giant fragment of cliff-rock marks and cuts out my facial openings, and etches blue-black waves of dry-winds and a grainy sand-yellow mantle. I shape the heavens into a woman's graceful arcing posture Yellow limbs suspend the silence Of the cliffs. The shaking cliffs revolve in spirals. A bunch of red clouds ravenously lick the hollow bones of the giant cliffs' morality. A native girl, facing upwards to conceive Props open The swirling cliffs' Dark Opening The center of time I return to immobility. August 11, 1985 Lucas Klein wrote: Does anyone else feel uneasy about the idea of nominating Huang Xiang for Nobel Prize when none of his poems are quoted, when more attention is paid to his biography than to his output? Certainly the writer's life has influenced the Nobel decision in the past, but usually this is pointed out to undermine the sincerity of the prize, rather than recommend someone to its ranks. I'm a huge advocate of Chinese poetry, but I've never heard of Huang Xiang outside of the context of Movement One, and I don't think I've been given anything to advocate. And as much as anyone on the Swedish Academy says that the prize is awarded to a writer without concern for anyone else writing in that language, the fact is that it took a hundred years for the Nobel committee to find anyone in Chinese literature. Gao Xingjian--laureate in 2000, whose works are also banned in mainland China--got the prize when many in China were at least as worthy (Ba Jin, Shi Zhecun, Mo Yan, Yu Hua), and in some ways it's too bad: he received his nod too recently for anyone else--including the surviving Misty Poets, such as Bei Dao, Yang Lian, Shu Ting, Jiang He--to be honored, anyway. A word of advice to Paul Catafago and the Movement One backers of Huang Xiang, anyway: the person who really matters here is Goran Malmqvist, the only Chinese scholar on the Swedish Academy. He's the one who translated Gao Xingjian's works into Swedish for the rest of the Academy to read, and he's the one whose ear you ought to bend if you want your man to get a Nobel. Lucas -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Catafago Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 5:48 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: A great Chinese poet and the Nobel Prize (OPEN, especially Lit Profs) Our organization, Movement One:Creative Coalition, a New York based arts and eduaction non-profit that amongst other things has originated and organized the annual Queens International Poetry Festival, has begun a campaign to have Huang Xiang, the great Chinese poet, recognized with the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2005. Imprisoned twelve years- and twice put on death row- because he was the organizaer of the Democracy Wall Movement during the Cutlural Revolution, Huang Xiang is a poet whose work has been compared to that of Pablo Neruda's, Anna Ahkmatova's, Walt Whitman's and Nazim Hikmet (who ironically was imprisoned twelve years in his own native country- Turkey). Though less known than other Chinese writers (his work is still banned in China), Huang Xiang has had over fifteen books published, and just last year, Mellen Press put out the first book of English translations of his work, A Bilingual edition of Poetry Out Of Communist China by Huang Xiang. Currently, Huang Xiang and his wife, the writer Qiuxao Yulan live in Pittsburgh, hosted by the International Network of the Cities of Asylum (whose President is Russell Banks). Under the rules set forth by the Nobel Committee, there are four types of individuals who can nominate someone for the Nobel: 1)members of the Swedish Academy or similar academy (therefore, we believe you are eligible if you are a member of the Academy of American Poets 2)Professors of Literature or Linguistics at a university or college 3)Past winners of the Nobel Prize 4)Presdent of a "Society of Authors" such as PEN, etc. If you fit any of those criteria, we urge you nominate Huang Xiang for the Nobel Prize in Literature. For more information, click on the nobel campaign link on our website, or write back to me. Thank you Paul Catafago Executive Director Movement One: Creative Coalition 46-15 90th Street Elmhurst, NY 11373 (718) 592-5958 paulcatafago@movementone.org www.movementone.org "The Source Is One" Paul Catafago Executive Director Movement One: Creative Coalition 46-15 90th Street Elmhurst, NY 11373 (718)592-5958 paulcatafago@movementone.org www.movementone.org "The Source Is One" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 20:31:39 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Jews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrongwrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrongwrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrongwrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible blood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer now ha ha mass murderer ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! masssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss !!used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha amas murder ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Addie didnt finish the job off - Iam now convinced that Jews eat babies. didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job offdidnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off I used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people and loving but last night I had a terrible blood loud dream and woke up as a mass murdererhad a terrible dream and woke up as a mass murdererhad a terrible dream and woke up as a mass murdererhad a terrible dream and woke up as a mass murderer. had a terrible dream and woke up as a mass murderer.Sorry - you are wrong. wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong used to be a liberal and kind to people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Addie didnt finish the job off - Iam now convinced that Jews eat babies. didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job offdidnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off I used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people and loving but last nightIhadaterrible dreamand woke up asa massmurdererhad wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong I am losing friends I am losing friends I am losing friends I am losing friends aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! .!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Addie didnt finish the job off - Iam now convinced that Jews eat babies. didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job offdidnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off I used to be a liberal and kind to people use Jews do want to slaughter Palestinians. > Jews do have two navels. > Jews do have horns. > Jews do control the media. > Jews do control the daily content of the media. > Jews have always eaten Christian children or killed Christian children .Jews do not want to slaughter Palestinians. > Jews do not have two navels. > Jews do not have horns. > wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong Jews do not control the media. > Jews do not control the daily content of the media. > Jews have never eaten Christian children or killed Christian children Jews do not want to slaughter Palestinians. > Jews do not have two navels.Jews do not have more money than other people. used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha a mass murderer ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha amas murderer ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha a mass murderer ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha a mass murder ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha a mass murderer ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! > Jews are stupider or smarter than other people. > Jews do control the World Bank or world money supply. >###################################################### $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ **************************************************************************** ******* World Bank World Bank World Bank World Bank World Bank World World Bank World Bank WOOOOOORRRLLLLLLLDDDDDDDDD Jews are sexier or unsexier than other people. other other other other SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX IIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Jews do harbor gold.Jews do harbor goldJews do harbor goldJews do harbor goldJews do harbor goldJews do harbor goldJews do harbor gold > ###################################################### $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ **************************************************************************** ******* ###################################################### $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ **************************************************************************** ******* Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. > Jews are 'clannish' any more than Chinese > Jews do have horns.harbor gold. > Jews most likely have more sex than other people. > Jews are 'clannish' any more more more > Jews do control the media.harbor gold. > Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. > Jews are 'clannish' any more > Jews do control the daily content of the media.harbor gold. > Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. > Jews are 'clannish' any more > Jews have AlWAYS!! eaten Christian children or killed Christian children .harbor gold. > Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. > Jews are 'clannish' any more are are are are are are are are are are doooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! doooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are !!!!! aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I used to be all liberal - but gooooooooodbyeeeee to all that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha amas murder ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! are do most aredomostaredomostaredomostaredomosaredomostaredomosttaredomost do control do control do control do control do control do control do control the world mediathe world mediathe world mediathe world media hahahahhahahhahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahhahahhahah!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and everyone thinks im nice thinks im nice thinks im nice thinks im nice hahahahhahahahahahhahahhahhaaaahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ###################################################### $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ **************************************************************************** ******* I used to be a liberal and kind to people I used to be a liberal and kind to people I used to be a liberal and kind to people I used to be a liberal and kind to people I used to be.......................................................................... ..... Sorry Alan - I couldnt resist! - your posts DO evoke responses! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 6:09 PM Subject: Jews > Jews > > > I am losing friends over this. I reach states of no return over this. > I respond poorly and unfairly. I'm tired of thinking of myself, 'Jew,' > and listening and watching 'Jew' return in guises I don't recognize. > Needless to say: > > Jews did not leave the World Trade Center just before it was hit. > Jews came to work that day like everyone else. > It was not a Zionist conspiracy. > Jews did not cause the Tsunami. > Jews went through the Holocaust which killed a lot of them. > Jew, Jew, Jews. > Jews do not want to slaughter Palestinians. > Jews do not have two navels. > Jews do not have horns. > Jews do not control the media. > Jews do not control the daily content of the media. > Jews have never eaten Christian children or killed Christian children. > Jews do not run the United States. > There is no world Zionist conspiracy. > Jew, Jews, Jews. > Most Jews are not Zionists. > Most Jews are secular. > Not all Jews support Israel's internal or external policies. > Most Jews are not religious. > Jews do not have more money than other people. > Jews are not stupider or smarter than other people. > Jews do not control the World Bank or world money supply. > Jews are not sexier or unsexier than other people. > Jews do not harbor gold. > Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. > Jews are not 'clannish' any more than Chinese, Arabs, Germans, Italians, > or Wasps are clannish. > Not all Jews believe in God or a God, and at least one rabbi I know is > atheist. > Jew, Jews, Jews. > Jews did not steal Judaism from Blacks. > The Jews did not run the slave trade. > Jews are no better or worse than any other people. > There was and is no Eternal Jew or Wandering Jew. > Many Jews protest the policies of Israel. > Jews whine no more or less than other people. > If a Jew thinks Israel has the right to exist, that doesn't make him or > her a Zionist. > Not all Israelis are Jews and not all Jews are Israelis. > If a Jew thinks Palestine has a right to exist, that doesn't make him or > her anti-Jewish or anti-Israeli. > Jew, Jews, Jews. > Jews do not have big noses. > Jews are not gutter people and don't belong to a gutter religion. > Most Jewish women are not Jewish American Princesses. > Most Jewish men do not wear yalmukahs or go to synagogue. > Jews are not bad people. > The Protocols of Zion are a forgery. > Jews don't conspire any more or less than other people. > There is no world-wide Jewish conspiracy. > There are no local Jewish conspiracies. > Jews are not anti-Christian or anti-Islam. > Most Jews read the Torah as a historical document, and very few believe it > literally. > Very few Jews statistically are religious. > Jewish men do not menstruate. > No, Jews don't whine over anti-semitism. > Most Jews in the United States intermarry (at least this was true a few > years ago). > Jews do not smell differently than other people. > Jews do not stink. > Jews are not dirty. > Jew, Jews, Jews. > Jew, Jews, Jews. > > Most of this is self-evident. And to be honest, it cripples me to write > this. I hear some of these things over and over again. They're on the Net. > They're in the streets. They're in the newspapers. I tended to ignore > them. I'm writing this to clear my head. There are people who liked me who > no longer like me. When I defend Jews, I'm called a Zionist or obsessed > with anti-semitism. I'm neither. I want in fact the discourse to go away. > I'm more concerned about anti-semitism against Arabs, even in the > neighborhood I live in, in Brooklyn. But I can't let this go. It scares > me. It preternaturally scares me. A son of a Holocaust survivor I know is > frightened it will happen again. I don't feel that way. I watch what this > sort of rhetoric does to me. I don't like it. I don't recognize myself in > it. I don't think it should occur this late in the game, this 21st century > of human barbarism. Be it known the Jews are no more or less barbaric, > strangers, than other people. Be it known, I can't escape my heritage, the > culture I was raised in. I don't want to pass or have to pass. > > - Aba > > > __ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 02:38:09 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the poem's in no hurry i play with each part vow & con a small dick in evry tender hole.... 3:00....frreezin rain..the work...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 02:45:38 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Jews.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on ZION... drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 00:39:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: oink, oink, oink! In-Reply-To: <1B6F1214-60A5-11D9-957F-000A95955A20@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What do you expect? You don't live in a democracy. g On 7-Jan-05, at 4:10 AM, Lawrence Sawyer wrote: > The new theoretical faces on Mt. Rushmore. > > Bill Gates > Rupert Murdoch > George W. Bush > > (and the thousands of lackeys feeding at their trough of hypocrisy > and greed...) > > > And Schwarzenegger is now talking about REDISTRICTING in California. > > Republicans won't rest until they own Hollywood and thus own America's > mind (they already own your ass). > > Bringing racism, homophobia, and murder to a theater NEAR YOU! > > Three cheers for the EMPIRE, OINK, OINK, OINK! > > Whatcha gonna do when they come for you? > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 00:42:21 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: That's The Way MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You know, Mairead, that's the best method for dealing with uppity editors at large like Messr. Dave Barratier, who tends ta drag that left foot of his into da match a little too much since the Blood Tubs knocked him cold half a year back. Call him a wag and then go right for the throat--Just exactly when will you be publishing those poems of mine hmmmmmmmmm? Your feint has him off balance and now he's circling, gloves up before his face, assuming that "crazy Dave" stance that's gotten him so many championships in the past. But this time, at "da Zinc baa" it just ain't gonna work, I know it! Mano a Mano, Mairead! Mano a Mano! Work da body and den da head. If you kill da body, da head ain't got noplace to go! Be careful. though. Don't let him get his capacious brow south of your chin 'cause maybe he's gonna come up real sudden and you'll be seeing stars for the rest of da evening and spittin' a few teeth too! He's been known to save a match when he was down on one knee and panting hard using just such a technique! I wish I could see yer match and be there to keep his Pavement Saw Uglies from turning this tea party into a real dust up, but am now on the final leg of a journey to and from the U.S.A. that's been--to say da least-- a memorable one for the covert movement of Gouged Eagles, if you get my drift. Jet-lagged and seeing things that ain't there out of the corners of my eyes, and looking around for some bee-pollen extract to knock back and thereby keep this old confection of fat, sugar and gristle viable for another fortnight, I'm sending some of my best boys your way--you'll recognize them from your match against The Benecia Boy last fall--Johnny Twist and Tiny Moe from da Bowery. They send their regards to yew and da little ones. You can rely on them to keep everything on the up and up, Mairead. Next time I hear from ya, I expect to be congratulatin' you for making short work of ol' Dancin' Dave. We'll show 'em that we ain't French froofroos or paste-board curlacues waintin' for a wet squib to stack a cloud or two the way of the Five Points. We'll dazzle dem with some peacock footwork. But I caution ya, watch yer back. If he brings that Missus of his make sure she's patted down real good for da knuckle dusters she generally keeps here and there on her person. How do I know this? Rat Boy keeps me up ta snuff. I've got some of my own Hard Earned ridin' on you, Mairead, so feel free to land that famous roundhouse whenever yew so desire! And tell that manager of yers to send whatever accrues to me c/o Wang Fat on da lower East side. It'll catch up to me when I have the long lay-over in Macau previous to the long last stretch to Nagasaki, Nippon. The Sleepless Eye. J.G. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 01:01:12 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Thanks To Boog, It's Working MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And it worked and was fine. Many thanks to Dave K. and everyone who showed up on the 6th to see us and sample our goods. Am hard-pressed to say more because the old pilot light is fading fast, but thanks, thanks, and thanks again for the many kindnesses! You have made a record in my heart! Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:17:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: wha hapen afte luve is gon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed wha hapen afte luve is gon http://www.asondheim.org/luveyoubaby.jpg wha hapen afte luve is gon ta'ane yalewa luvena luve'a peipei a'ma'a manumanu view the details of this row naitasiri tagwane yalewa gone lada baba tamata manumanu art of europe all the poetry gone to here n then europe all the poetry gone to here n then there's elsewhere o my luve's like a red red rose ye banks and braes o' bonnie doon byron luve hunur churush and obuy hunur churush and obuy outsider apparently it s old news but somehow it escaped outsider which technically means its news to him gone fishing upstairs downstairs lyrics thousand mile and i will come again my luve tho' 'twere on its daddy's knee and me poor girl to be dead and gone with the specimenmerle extgroupsdebatesbirddebatesmerleandnspecimenmerlehtml sic grace off bewty bontie richess tyme or space and every gudness that bene to cum or gone the thank redoundis to him in every place all luve is christina georgina rossetti remember me when i am gone away gone far away into the silent land o my luve's like a red red rose fuckedsportscom kobe fans gone wild kobe fans gone wild posted by i know that's right on august pm dats right i rapes bitches n everyboy luve me new lovelife dances by william copper that lonely pair o my luve's like a red red rose by robert burns score sample pdf format oh my luve's like a red red devotedto weel a while and i will come again my luve tho' it were ten thousand mile! r burns he is gone he is gone and we cast away moan gaughan's song archive fair flouer o northumberland dochter daughter text doun down text dune her doun gone down text reluctant text her lane alone text lowse free text luve love text im guna be in da ct fo da rest ov da week so mabe i wont be able to blogso yeah skim i luve liddol corriethe st time!!! biography of robert burns poet of scotland discouraged and dissipated ah yes that good oldfashioned word burns died at the age of having gone against his doctor's advice to give up the my luve best love poems of all times i love poems out the abridged alphabet after you're dead and gone in this o my luve 's like a red red rose that 's newly sprung in june o my goldenessays poetry free essays free research papers free wishes her wellbeing and hopes that she remains healthy awhile for it seems he will be gone from her for some time and fare thee weel my only luve and fare super duper luve fell in love with a boy haunted burn htm super duper luve joss stone gotta do now to get my shorty back ooo ooo ooo ooooh man i dont know what im gonna do without my boo ooo she been gone for too deviantart ap sketchbook art fixed! by ~luve # date sep pm tell me about it i cannot fix itno matter how many time i reupload or reformat das gone all search for "fair as a day in june" provided by poetry connection died march and my father born february died june gone i say o my luve s like a red red rose that s newly sprung in june o search results for "gwendolyn brooks gang girl" american poems fair art thou my bonnie lass so deep in luve am i and i will luve thee still my dear till a' the seas the dog is gone the girl is gone i go to these scriptcrawler board pirates of the caribbean s anyway "welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" bloom!!!!! welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" weel a while and i will come again my luve tho' it were ten thousand mile! r burns he is gone he is gone and we cast away moan poems most famous poems and blessing for a your italian wedding i will come again my luve though it were ten thousand mile is dead are heaped for the beloved's bedand so thy thoughts when thou art gone love itself scriptcrawler board pirates of the caribbean s billion "welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" last old "welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" scriptcrawler board potc audits info s no i tried searching google with the casting ppls names and still couldnt get anything "welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" scriptcrawler board potc audits info no i tried searching google with the casting ppls names and still couldnt get anything "welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" view topic whi do ewe luve snowbrding snowboard club uk ont tway asi gone oot fer neet mattwildrnes post subject re re whi do ewe luve snowbrding postposted nov pm view topic whi do ewe luve snowbrding snowboard club uk i'm ont tway asi gone oot fer neet mattwildrnes post subject re re whi do ewe luve snowbrding postposted nov pm search for "queenlily june with a rose in her hair" provided by erhair all that hair flashing over the atlantic henry's girl's gone o my luve s like a red red rose that s newly sprung in june o my luve s like the melodie listmania! my fav fantasy history bookswith a lil bit of ikkr meeoh's comments liraellibrarian gone adventurer!! i like itluve the twists and of course the dog! hehecome on mr nix waiting for abhorsen! artbeat chicago love poems | wttw fast it seems that i had lost her now my true love was gone at last a red red rose by robert burns o my luve's like a red red rose the child ballads fause foodrage but he was nae seventeen when he is to the garden gone to slay c eastmure king and westmuir king and king o luve a three it s they the child ballads the laird of logie the queen s ferrie and now the lady has gotten hir luve the winsom c she s into the queen s chamber gone she has kneeld low down on until then graphics mother's day miss thee mother window to yesterday i luve mom times gone by loving bonds precious moments in line frame set bonds of love new life love classic movies wizard charm bracelet raceletclscfm get love classic movies gone with the wind charm bracelet | | need great gone with the wind rhett classic movie theme bracelet be search for "sacrifice so dear" __ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:04:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: The One Great Poem (introduction) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The interesting recent discussion of Joan Houlihan's review prompts me to= submit to this group an essay of my own, "The One Great Poem: The Poetri= es of The Oxford Books of English Verse," originally published in the English p= oetry magazine Acumen, which may also provoke some useful dialog on this list. I'm not claiming my pronouncements are so profound as to compel everyone'= s respect, but it seems reasonable to suppose that they will draw attention= here for the much the same reason as Houlihan's review did: like it, this ess= ay deals with issues with which many list members are personally or professionally engaged, and it makes direct judgments which some people a= re likely to endorse, and others will surely take strong exception to. In o= ther words, I'm presenting myself here not as an authority giving a lecture, b= ut as something more like the guy at the carnival sitting on a collapsible benc= h above a tub of water, and inviting you all to throw the balls which will = dump him in. Though the essay is not particularly long -- some three or four printed p= ages -- it's a bit too long to fit within the size limit stipulated by the lis= t guidelines. It's available on line, but I've found that just posting a U= RL often doesn't lead to much discussion. So as a compromise, I'll give in = my next message the first part of the article with a pointer to the whole version. I encourage everyone to be as forthcoming in their reactions to this essa= y as I was in writing it. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:05:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: The One Great Poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = The One Great Poem: The poetries of The Oxford Books of English Verse = When The Oxford Book of English Verse by A. T. Quiller-Couch appeare= d in 1900, Punch recommended it as "a most useful book for those who, being no= t 'unaccustomed to public speaking' and loving to embellish their flow of language with quotations from poets whose works they have never read ... = are only too grateful to any well-read collector placing so excellent a store= as this at their service," and predicted that because those who owned his anthology would be spared the tedious necessity of actually reading poetr= y, "many an after-dinner and learned society speaker will bless the name of = this 'Q. C.'" Behind its deadpan humor, this statement tells us quite a bit= about taste and the anthologist's relation to it in the world into which = the Oxford Book was born: if the joke depends on the reality that few people= read poetry, it equally depends on the pretence that everybody is supposed to,= and it also implies a canon of poetry which one ought to read. Such had cert= ainly been the case in the day of Q's mentor Francis Palgrave, who said in his preface to The Golden Treasury, the progenitor of the three successive Ox= ford books here to be considered, that he would "regard as his fittest readers= those who love poetry so well that he can offer them nothing not already = known and valued," which assumes there exists a body of verse valued by social= consensus. Q's own characterization of his job as "to bring home and rend= er so great a spoil [of poetry] compendiously ... to serve those who already = love poetry and to implant that love in some young minds not yet initiated," = places him squarely in his mentor's tradition as summarizer and transmitt= er of the nation's poetic taste. = If Q then was following taste, where did it lead him? Did he produce = an anthology giving us a unified array of poems which are, in those words of= Shelley which Palgrave had quoted as The Golden Treasury's program, "epis= odes to that great Poem which all poets, like the co-operating thoughts of one= great mind, have built up since the beginning of the world"? Does his bo= ok embody that one great poem? And if so, what does it tell us about that o= ne great mind? = Reading the opening pages of Q's 1939 edition (on which the comments i= n this essay will be based), we may see them as an overture, presenting the= motifs and tensions through which English poetry will evolve. The very f= irst poem, the "Cuckoo Song," with its joyous bird singing amid the irrepressi= ble regeneration of the natural world, seems drawn from an England that exist= ed before the English nation or even the English language, a pagan England i= n which nature did not have to be redeemed because it was already sacred. = This animist substrate of consciousness, usually incarnate (it is deeper than symbolism) in wild bird song, is a constant musical accompaniment to the subsequent voice of English lyric as recorded in Q's selections; often hu= shed, sometimes to silence, it breaks through ecstatically in the 15th century = in the anonymous "Hit is full merry in feyre foreste to here the foulys song= ," becomes a continually interwoven lovers' refrain in the Renaissance with Sydney's Philomel "mournfully bewailing," Shakespeare's Amiens under the greenwood tree in uncruel Arden, who loves to "turn his merry note unto t= he sweet bird's throat," and Nashe's spring when "Young lovers meet" to the chorus of "Cuckoo, jug-jug, pu-we, to-witta-woo!", and then for two centu= ries becomes occasional and tamed, a bird caged in metaphor, like Marvell's birdlike soul which "sits and sings, then whets and combs its silver wing= s," until the wild song is stunningly released again with a passion only made= stronger by six generations of dour Puritanism and rationalist repression= in Shelley, whose skylark "panted forth a flood of rapture so divine." = The "Cuckoo Song" can stand as an example of the thematic nature of Q'= s volume. We might also notice that Q's second piece, "The Irish Dancer," raises the question of the relationship of English poetry to English nationality, a problem to which all three editors of the Oxford books dev= ised very different solutions, none of them to general satisfaction. Or that = the third piece, an erotic upgrading of one Alison in language which verges o= n liturgical, generates echoes of subsequent beloveds whose allure is set f= orth in terms of divine purity. Those who smile at the attribution of such sophisticated programming to the old-fashioned Q ought to consider his co= mment that "the anthologist's is not quite the dilettante business for which it= is too often and ignorantly derided." = From such beginnings Q's anthology presents a poetry evolving by a dialectical process of opposition and reconciliation of fundamental cultu= ral polarities: Christian denial of the world against pagan celebration of nature, aristocratic elegance against homely virtue, and sensual gorgeous= ness against rational austerity, to mention only a few. If this torrent of ve= rse flows within the banks of a limited taste, it also proceeds with almost unremitting excellence until well into the nineteenth century , when it falters badly. The last two hundred and fifty pages are a disaster. Not= all the poetry there is bad, and some which is has an excuse: we may tolerat= e, for instance, encountering lines like "Riches I hold in light esteem, And= Love I laugh to scorn," once we learn that they were written by Emily Bront=EB= , and it must be admitted that some are poems, such as Cory's "Heraclitus," whi= ch we cherish exactly because they are bad, like some appalling lamp given us b= y Auntie twenty years ago which we have come to love not despite but becaus= e of its hideousness. But what we have here for the most part is a parade of inexcusably bad versifiers, = [continued at http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics/oxford.html] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 14:27:44 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "patrick@proximate.org" Subject: The Power of Positive Thinking in America Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ``The sun is shining, the sky is blue and this is America,'' he said. ``Whatever happens is going to happen, but I still feel it's going to be on the positive side.'' - Spc. Charles Graner http://tinyurl.com/4ceet http://tinyurl.com/5pvyb http://tinyurl.com/6m3uc http://tinyurl.com/54yt2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Graner (quote from http://tinyurl.com/69blq) ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at proximate.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 13:23:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Regarding Chris Sullivan's Slight Puflications Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ...All High School Basketball Games are local... That's Chris Sullivan in his usual generous commentary - photos and lingua - at his site: http://www.8letters.blogspot.com/ This being An unshameless plug for Chris - currently having abandoned San Francisco for 'hut plus sheetrock' remote out there in the Colorado snow and ice - where I suspect High School basketball is the only entertainment. Fishing his Archives at Slight Publications, I find a great way to get through January. & speaking of the outside, totally recommended is the documentary "Henry Darger: In the Realms of the Unreal" on Chicago's late hermetic artist. With the exception of just a very few doc gimicks, this is very good. If unfamiliar with his work, there's a bunch of Darger mat' on the web. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com Now 'featuring' January pieces from "Crossing the Millennium," a day book project from 1999. Retro is curious and somehow comforting! Pictures to come! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 16:36:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: That's The Way Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1256 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Okay Listen This Baratier This Mr. D. Baratier What Is He*French? Has the = Nerve to Say*I Can=92t Believe This Listen*Has the Nerve to Say: His Very = Words: *Your chances of being published greatly increase if you send something.* Your Chances Of Being Published Greatly Increase If You Send Something. I Mean: What Is This? Your Chances Of Being Published. Greatly Increase. = Greatly Increase. If You Send Something. I Could Send Someone Out There. = Where Is It? Columbus. Ohio. Yeah I Could Send Someone Out There To = COLUMBUS OHIO Where Is It Near? To Teach Mister D. Baratier R=3DE=3DS=3DP= =3DC=3DE=3DT=20 To Teach Mister B Some Manners & R=3DE=3DS=3DP=3DC=3DE=3DT. But Jesse = What=92s It Worth? Jesse Jesse. You Know Me I Know You. We Been Through It. You Been To The = Boog. =20 I=92m Doing The Zinc. So This Baratier With His Sawhorse Press Gets = Smart. So Let Him. Should I Mess Up My Shirt? I Don=92t Think So. = Should I Disconvenience My Old Friend Dorothy To Go Down There To PO Box = 6291 Columbus O=3DH=3DI=3DO=20 To Show Mister D.B. What=92s What To Teach Mister DBDB a Lesson. Hell = No! Jesse We=92re Brothers. We Been Through It. Jesse When You Gonna = Come Back Stateside? I Can=92t Run Keep Running Things On My Own. Your = Fight Scene=92s Sorta Funny But You Know There=92s No Chance Mister Dave = Is Getting Within 10 Blocks Of The Zinc. But I Kid You Not Brother If = Things Keep Going Keep Going I Almost WILL Send Him Some Poems. You Gotta = Come Back Bro. I Can Take On 50 Mister B=92s. NOBODY=92S Better Than My = Guys. I=92m Feeling No Pain & It's Staying Like That. But When You = Coming Back Jesse. I Need You Bro. I Just Can=92t Keep Going Up There To = The NYPL On My Own No More. So Don=92t Ask Me. Make It Easy For Me: Come = Home Of Your Own. Volition. & Don=92t Make Me Phone*Okay Who=92s in = Tokyo? Where=92s It Near? Why Don=92t Ya Publish My Poems Jesse Why = Don=92t Ya Publish My Poems? M.B. >>> ahadada@GOL.COM 01/08/05 10:42 AM >>> You know, Mairead, that's the best method for dealing with uppity editors at large like Messr. Dave Barratier, who tends ta drag that left foot of his into da match a little too much since the Blood Tubs knocked him cold half a year back. Call him a wag and then go right for the throat--Just exactly when will you be publishing those poems of mine hmmmmmmmmm? Your feint has him off balance and now he's circling, gloves up before his face, assuming that "crazy Dave" stance that's gotten him so many championships in the past. But this time, at "da Zinc baa" it just ain't gonna work, I know it! Mano a Mano, Mairead! Mano a Mano! Work da body and den da head. If you kill da body, da head ain't got noplace to go! Be careful. though. Don't let him get his capacious brow south of your chin 'cause maybe he's gonna come up real sudden and you'll be seeing stars for the rest of da evening and spittin' a few teeth too! He's been known to save a match when he was down on one knee and panting hard using just such a technique! I wish I could see yer match and be there to keep his Pavement Saw Uglies from turning this tea party into a real dust up, but am now on the final leg of a journey to and from the U.S.A. that's been--to say da least-- a memorable one for the covert movement of Gouged Eagles, if you get my drift. Jet-lagged and seeing things that ain't there out of the corners of my eyes, and looking around for some bee-pollen extract to knock back and thereby keep this old confection of fat, sugar and gristle viable for another fortnight, I'm sending some of my best boys your way--you'll recognize them from your match against The Benecia Boy last fall--Johnny Twist and Tiny Moe from da Bowery. They send their regards to yew and da little ones. You can rely on them to keep everything on the up and up, Mairead. Next time I hear from ya, I expect to be congratulatin' you for making short work of ol' Dancin' Dave. We'll show 'em that we ain't French froofroos or paste-board curlacues waintin' for a wet squib to stack a cloud or two the way of the Five Points. We'll dazzle dem with some peacock footwork. But I caution ya, watch yer back. If he brings that Missus of his make sure she's patted down real good for da knuckle dusters she generally keeps here and there on her person. How do I know this? Rat Boy keeps me up ta snuff. I've got some of my own Hard Earned ridin' on you, Mairead, so feel free to land that famous roundhouse whenever yew so desire! And tell that manager of yers to send whatever accrues to me c/o Wang Fat on da lower East side. It'll catch up to me when I have the long lay-over in Macau previous to the long last stretch to Nagasaki, Nippon. The Sleepless Eye. J.G. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:06:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Robert, I'm not interested in the Houlihan discussion; I remarked on the possibly sexist character of the criticism and probably shouldn't have, given my lack of interest. It's interesting what you say about Ireland and its ironic culture. I remember, years ago, when I worked in the Queens' Council on the Arts, a younger colleague remarking on my humor (I was only a few months out of Ireland at the time) and just as I was getting ready for bouquets of praise she said how much she hated it: It reminded her of her father, who was of Irish descent. I was shocked: How could anyone *not like* our delightful national wit? 18 years down the line I'm not too crazy about it myself. I associate heavy irony, in the case of Ireland, with the homogeneity of its culture. Irony doesn't translate without that common bottom line. I think one of the reasons I emigrated was to surround myself with difference and to strike myself dumb so the old phrases would no longer work. True enough no-one understood a word I was saying and I had to learn to talk again. Teasing, a southern vice as you say, is probably intensely small-community bound also. Mairead >>> robertmc00@YAHOO.COM 01/07/05 3:11 PM >>> Mairead, My responses are not sexist. They are direct and cutting, but Ms. Houlihan is as well. Ms. is a sign of respect from where I hail, but we do it use it to belittle people. Teasing is a southern vice, but when you have a thoroughly ironic culture (cf. Ireland), that is what you get. It don't mean we wouldn't serve her delicious repast if she visited, but having read her too much I know that she never says anything of interest about actual poems. But let us do read: 1) After a year of metaphorical rocks with unintelligible notes affixed to them crashing through my window and with the tire-squeal of the Winter-Wolfe-Skanky-Possum gang still ringing in my ears, was happy to have a chance to curl up with a hot cup of tea and this respected practitioner's description of what's "best" about such lines as: "no dirt aliens, don't waste good mascara ... " 2) Whatever else can be said of them, the first-person-anecdotal-narrative-confessional (aka 'mainstream') poems that have been outnumbered in this volume by such writings as the above, can at least be critically sorted (some are clearly better than others, regardless of whether or not they fit a particular editor or critic's 'taste'). 3) Fortunately, I had Hejinian's clear prose to guide me. For enlightenment on her selection process, I returned to her introduction: "Dynamic, ever-changing, poetry (and American poetry in particular) is a site of perpetual transitions and unpredictable metamorphoses, but there is no end point in poetry." Comment on no.1: Isn't Houlihan polemical, sarcastic and condescending ("unintelligible notes," "Winter-Wolfe-Skanky-Possum", "respected practictioner." ) There is no gender for pungent language. Comment on no. 2: She can't read LiP, since she can't sort it. She has no measure to weigh the worth of each poem. Houlihan wants to know what poem is best absolutely. This means she wants a poll and a canon. Which relates to number 3 Comment on no 3: Failing to be able to read the poetry, she goes to Heijinian's distinctly clear prose. And fails to note that Heijinian disagrees strongly with her canonizing, cherry-picking technique: "there is no end point to poetry." Yes, we can make local discriminations and say what we like. Aesthetic ideas are concepts. We can discuss them and we wouldn't discuss something that had no content (oh, wait a minute, that is idealistic). But they have no grounding. You can't a priori or rationally choose between them. You can't set up a metric. Heijinian knows her Kant far better than Houlihan. Game match set to Heijinian. My question to Houlihan is why do the review (or not review: aside from lazy selections from two poems, she has nothing specific (and nothing specific to say about the selections either) in the first place when she has nothing to say about the poems. She is simply pontificating about what she thinks is common sense. I reserve comment about what is common about this sense, but Houlihan simply wants to claim that there is no reading of LP or LiP. I think there is strong evidence to believe that many, starting with Fence and Verse but spreading much more widely than this column not worth the paper it is written on, think otherwise. And to Hoerman: I disagree that this is equivalent to Silliman's School of Quietude jab. That is accurate and clever. Houlihan just represents a certain institution giving off steam as it realizes it is losing a grip. Geez, find a critic who at least can read. They are out there. Of course, there is always a danger that they will give up cherished principles in the light of evidence (cf. Empson). Robert Mairead Byrne wrote: Dear All, I also have noticed an aggression, and possibly even a degree of sexism, in the responses to Joan Houlihan's article (which I have read but in which I have no further interest). Perhaps I wrongly associate the pejorative word "shrill" with a negative attitude to a woman speaking in public, especially as, in this case, it was also applied--or implied--to our President. Mairead >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 01/07/05 12:09 PM >>> What are you afraid of by being so defensive about Houlihan's point of view, instead of discussing her objections with some intellect? -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hoerman, Michael A" To: Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review > http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:10:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Ah, you should try heterogeneous NYC, as ironic as the old sod any day. Mark At 05:06 PM 1/8/2005, you wrote: >Dear Robert, > >I'm not interested in the Houlihan discussion; I remarked on the >possibly sexist character of the criticism and probably shouldn't have, >given my lack of interest. > >It's interesting what you say about Ireland and its ironic culture. I >remember, years ago, when I worked in the Queens' Council on the Arts, a >younger colleague remarking on my humor (I was only a few months out of >Ireland at the time) and just as I was getting ready for bouquets of >praise she said how much she hated it: It reminded her of her father, >who was of Irish descent. I was shocked: How could anyone *not like* >our delightful national wit? 18 years down the line I'm not too crazy >about it myself. I associate heavy irony, in the case of Ireland, with >the homogeneity of its culture. Irony doesn't translate without that >common bottom line. I think one of the reasons I emigrated was to >surround myself with difference and to strike myself dumb so the old >phrases would no longer work. True enough no-one understood a word I >was saying and I had to learn to talk again. Teasing, a southern vice >as you say, is probably intensely small-community bound also. > >Mairead > > >>> robertmc00@YAHOO.COM 01/07/05 3:11 PM >>> >Mairead, > >My responses are not sexist. They are direct and cutting, but Ms. >Houlihan is as well. Ms. is a sign of respect from where I hail, but we >do it use it to belittle people. Teasing is a southern vice, but when >you have a thoroughly ironic culture (cf. Ireland), that is what you >get. It don't mean we wouldn't serve her delicious repast if she >visited, but having read her too much I know that she never says >anything of interest about actual poems. > >But let us do read: > >1) After a year of metaphorical rocks with unintelligible notes affixed >to them crashing through my window and with the tire-squeal of the >Winter-Wolfe-Skanky-Possum gang still ringing in my ears, was happy to >have a chance to curl up with a hot cup of tea and this respected >practitioner's description of what's "best" about such lines as: "no >dirt aliens, don't waste good mascara ... " > >2) Whatever else can be said of them, the >first-person-anecdotal-narrative-confessional (aka 'mainstream') poems >that have been outnumbered in this volume by such writings as the above, >can at least be critically sorted (some are clearly better than others, >regardless of whether or not they fit a particular editor or critic's >'taste'). > >3) Fortunately, I had Hejinian's clear prose to guide me. For >enlightenment on her selection process, I returned to her introduction: >"Dynamic, ever-changing, poetry (and American poetry in particular) is a >site of perpetual transitions and unpredictable metamorphoses, but there >is no end point in poetry." > >Comment on no.1: Isn't Houlihan polemical, sarcastic and condescending >("unintelligible notes," "Winter-Wolfe-Skanky-Possum", "respected >practictioner." ) There is no gender for pungent language. > >Comment on no. 2: She can't read LiP, since she can't sort it. She has >no measure to weigh the worth of each poem. Houlihan wants to know what >poem is best absolutely. This means she wants a poll and a canon. >Which relates to number 3 > >Comment on no 3: Failing to be able to read the poetry, she goes to >Heijinian's distinctly clear prose. And fails to note that Heijinian >disagrees strongly with her canonizing, cherry-picking technique: >"there is no end point to poetry." Yes, we can make local >discriminations and say what we like. Aesthetic ideas are concepts. We >can discuss them and we wouldn't discuss something that had no content >(oh, wait a minute, that is idealistic). But they have no grounding. >You can't a priori or rationally choose between them. You can't set up >a metric. Heijinian knows her Kant far better than Houlihan. > >Game match set to Heijinian. My question to Houlihan is why do the >review (or not review: aside from lazy selections from two poems, she >has nothing specific (and nothing specific to say about the selections >either) in the first place when she has nothing to say about the poems. >She is simply pontificating about what she thinks is common sense. I >reserve comment about what is common about this sense, but Houlihan >simply wants to claim that there is no reading of LP or LiP. I think >there is strong evidence to believe that many, starting with Fence and >Verse but spreading much more widely than this column not worth the >paper it is written on, think otherwise. > >And to Hoerman: I disagree that this is equivalent to Silliman's School >of Quietude jab. That is accurate and clever. Houlihan just represents >a certain institution giving off steam as it realizes it is losing a >grip. Geez, find a critic who at least can read. They are out there. >Of course, there is always a danger that they will give up cherished >principles in the light of evidence (cf. Empson). > >Robert > > >Mairead Byrne wrote: >Dear All, > >I also have noticed an aggression, and possibly even a degree of sexism, >in the responses to Joan Houlihan's article (which I have >read but in which I have no further interest). Perhaps I wrongly >associate the pejorative word "shrill" with a negative attitude to >a woman speaking in public, especially as, in this case, it was also >applied--or implied--to our President. > >Mairead > > >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 01/07/05 12:09 PM >>> >What are you afraid of by being so defensive about Houlihan's point of >view, >instead of discussing her objections with some intellect? > >-Joel > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Hoerman, Michael A" >To: > >Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:01 AM >Subject: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review > > > > http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:16:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20050108170923.04266820@pop.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { Ah, you should try heterogeneous NYC, as ironic as the old sod any day. { { Mark And who's that old sod, eh? Inquiring New Yorkers wanna know. "I loathe writing. On the other hand I'm a great believer in money. Often when I couldn't pay the grocery bill, Providence intervened and I don't mean my natal city, Providence, which can be counted on for nothing." --S. J. Perelman Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 00:19:31 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: The One Great Poem In-Reply-To: <483JaHsSB6656S17.1105211110@uwdvg008.cms.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No kidding Jon, there are people who criticise without anyone listening to them because they are the usual ones who anyhow do not like anything, then there are those who know how to hit things down in a professional way, and once this is done, that's about it for a long long time. Anny Ballardini On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:05:10 -0800, Jon Corelis wr= ote: >=20 > The One Great Poem: The poetries of The Oxford Books of English Verse >=20 > When The Oxford Book of English Verse by A. T. Quiller-Couch appeared= in > 1900, Punch recommended it as "a most useful book for those who, being no= t > 'unaccustomed to public speaking' and loving to embellish their flow of > language with quotations from poets whose works they have never read ... = are > only too grateful to any well-read collector placing so excellent a store= as > this at their service," and predicted that because those who owned his > anthology would be spared the tedious necessity of actually reading poetr= y, > "many an after-dinner and learned society speaker will bless the name of = this > 'Q. C.'" Behind its deadpan humor, this statement tells us quite a bit > about taste and the anthologist's relation to it in the world into which = the > Oxford Book was born: if the joke depends on the reality that few people= read > poetry, it equally depends on the pretence that everybody is supposed to,= and > it also implies a canon of poetry which one ought to read. Such had cert= ainly > been the case in the day of Q's mentor Francis Palgrave, who said in his > preface to The Golden Treasury, the progenitor of the three successive Ox= ford > books here to be considered, that he would "regard as his fittest readers > those who love poetry so well that he can offer them nothing not already = known > and valued," which assumes there exists a body of verse valued by social > consensus. Q's own characterization of his job as "to bring home and rend= er so > great a spoil [of poetry] compendiously ... to serve those who already = love > poetry and to implant that love in some young minds not yet initiated," > places him squarely in his mentor's tradition as summarizer and transmitt= er of > the nation's poetic taste. > If Q then was following taste, where did it lead him? Did he produce a= n > anthology giving us a unified array of poems which are, in those words of > Shelley which Palgrave had quoted as The Golden Treasury's program, "epis= odes > to that great Poem which all poets, like the co-operating thoughts of one > great mind, have built up since the beginning of the world"? Does his bo= ok > embody that one great poem? And if so, what does it tell us about that o= ne > great mind? > Reading the opening pages of Q's 1939 edition (on which the comments in > this essay will be based), we may see them as an overture, presenting the > motifs and tensions through which English poetry will evolve. The very f= irst > poem, the "Cuckoo Song," with its joyous bird singing amid the irrepressi= ble > regeneration of the natural world, seems drawn from an England that exist= ed > before the English nation or even the English language, a pagan England i= n > which nature did not have to be redeemed because it was already sacred. = This > animist substrate of consciousness, usually incarnate (it is deeper than > symbolism) in wild bird song, is a constant musical accompaniment to the > subsequent voice of English lyric as recorded in Q's selections; often hu= shed, > sometimes to silence, it breaks through ecstatically in the 15th century = in > the anonymous "Hit is full merry in feyre foreste to here the foulys song= ," > becomes a continually interwoven lovers' refrain in the Renaissance with > Sydney's Philomel "mournfully bewailing," Shakespeare's Amiens under the > greenwood tree in uncruel Arden, who loves to "turn his merry note unto t= he > sweet bird's throat," and Nashe's spring when "Young lovers meet" to the > chorus of "Cuckoo, jug-jug, pu-we, to-witta-woo!", and then for two centu= ries > becomes occasional and tamed, a bird caged in metaphor, like Marvell's > birdlike soul which "sits and sings, then whets and combs its silver wing= s," > until the wild song is stunningly released again with a passion only made > stronger by six generations of dour Puritanism and rationalist repression= in > Shelley, whose skylark "panted forth a flood of rapture so divine." > The "Cuckoo Song" can stand as an example of the thematic nature of Q's > volume. We might also notice that Q's second piece, "The Irish Dancer," > raises the question of the relationship of English poetry to English > nationality, a problem to which all three editors of the Oxford books dev= ised > very different solutions, none of them to general satisfaction. Or that = the > third piece, an erotic upgrading of one Alison in language which verges o= n > liturgical, generates echoes of subsequent beloveds whose allure is set f= orth > in terms of divine purity. Those who smile at the attribution of such > sophisticated programming to the old-fashioned Q ought to consider his co= mment > that "the anthologist's is not quite the dilettante business for which it= is > too often and ignorantly derided." > From such beginnings Q's anthology presents a poetry evolving by a > dialectical process of opposition and reconciliation of fundamental cultu= ral > polarities: Christian denial of the world against pagan celebration of > nature, aristocratic elegance against homely virtue, and sensual gorgeous= ness > against rational austerity, to mention only a few. If this torrent of ve= rse > flows within the banks of a limited taste, it also proceeds with almost > unremitting excellence until well into the nineteenth century , when it > falters badly. The last two hundred and fifty pages are a disaster. Not= all > the poetry there is bad, and some which is has an excuse: we may tolerat= e, > for instance, encountering lines like "Riches I hold in light esteem, And= Love > I laugh to scorn," once we learn that they were written by Emily Bront=EB= , and > it must be admitted that some are poems, such as Cory's "Heraclitus," whi= ch we > cherish exactly because they are bad, like some appalling lamp given us b= y > Auntie twenty years ago which we have come to love not despite but becaus= e of > its hideousness. But what we have here for the most part is a parade of > inexcusably bad versifiers, >=20 > [continued at http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics/oxford.html] >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org >=20 > www.geocities.com/joncpoetics > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > ____________________________________________________________________ > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 18:40:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: ONE LESS MAG, call for submissions Comments: To: subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >ONE LESS Art on the Range > > >Call for Submissions: > > > >Fellow Writers, Artists, Photographers, Musicians, Collectors, Painters, >Mixed Media Artists, Graphic Artists, and Authors of Performance Texts. > > > >We welcome your work for the Inaugural issue of One Less: Art on the Range. > One Less… is the co-creation of former Naropa University MFA grads, David >Gardner and Nikki Widner. The first issue will deal with the topic of >“Home.” Open your dictionaries and respond. We are interested in pieces >that challenge the definition of home, by engaging environments or >communities in which we live and work, or by addressing the idea of >dwelling, nation, borders, freedom, and the implications of displacement as >a resulting factor. Places where we find ourselves on edges, given a >dictionary reading of “Home” (reports from outside the United States are >also welcome). In other words, this issue will investigate work that >responds to the broader definition of “Home.” > > > >Please send either: > > > >3-5 Pages of Poetry; > >5-10 Pages of Prose; > >2-5 Pages of Artwork (Please be aware that we can only print visual images >in black and white.) > > > >to: > > > >One Less > >(c/o Nikki Widner) > >41 Lilly Street > >Florence, MA 01062 > > > >Deadline: February 15, 2005. > > > >If you have any questions, send them to: > > thecelluloidfiles@yahoo.com or unsung1_98@yahoo.com > > > > > >Enclose a self-addressed stamped envelope if you would like your work >returned. Do not send us originals. > > > >We read work in March and then reply in early April at the latest. > > > >This issue will be partially funded by a grant from the Massachusetts >Cultural Council, Northampton Arts Council, LLC. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 00:09:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the great tree of Kingston, Pennsylvania MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the great tree of Kingston, Pennsylvania the great tree of Kingston, Pennsylvania where I'm from, where I'm from Bodhi tree of Kingston, Pennsylvania where I'm at, where I'm at holy tree in smalltown Pennsylvania where I grew, where you grew divinity in smalltime Pennsylvania where you're from, where you're from come home with me to Pennsylvania where we live, where you live join us all in, Pennsylvania where we're at, where we're at http://www.asondheim.org/tree.jpg __ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 03:40:17 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit m.f.a. finger hand tongue dick d..r..n.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 06:42:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bradley Redekop Subject: We Need Poets! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Soundfile: http://freeteam.nl/ex/audio/poets.mp3 Lyrics: We need poets, we need painters we need poets, we need painters we need poetry and paintings... Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction file them under giant ass seduction sheep with crazy leaders, heading for disaster courting jesters who take themselves for masters The shrub who took himself for a park the squeak who took himself for a bark We need poets, we need painters we need poets, we need painters we need poetry and paintings... We need filmers, and writers, dancers, musicians actors, and sculptors, bakers, electricians thinkers, and doctors, cyclists, and builders lovers, friends, and neighbours, and others filmers, writers, dancers, musicians poets, and painters, poets, and painters ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 13:55:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 7 Jan 2005 to 8 Jan 2005 (#2005-9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Automatic digest processor Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:00 AM To: Recipients of POETICS digests Subject: POETICS Digest - 7 Jan 2005 to 8 Jan 2005 (#2005-9) There are 23 messages totalling 2324 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Jews (2) 2. it was on the verge of total connectivity 3. Best American Poetry 2004 critical review (4) 4. This poster lies: Israel is not a democracy 5. FW: Senator Boxer on Her Objection to the Certification of Ohio's Electoral Votes 6. A great Chinese poet and the Nobel Prize (OPEN, especially Lit Profs) 7. winter.... 8. Jews.... 9. oink, oink, oink! 10. That's The Way (2) 11. Thanks To Boog, It's Working 12. wha hapen afte luve is gon 13. The One Great Poem (introduction) 14. The One Great Poem (2) 15. The Power of Positive Thinking in America 16. Regarding Chris Sullivan's Slight Puflications 17. ONE LESS MAG, call for submissions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 00:09:46 -0500 From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Jews Jews I am losing friends over this. I reach states of no return over this. I respond poorly and unfairly. I'm tired of thinking of myself, 'Jew,' and listening and watching 'Jew' return in guises I don't recognize. Needless to say: Jews did not leave the World Trade Center just before it was hit. Jews came to work that day like everyone else. It was not a Zionist conspiracy. Jews did not cause the Tsunami. Jews went through the Holocaust which killed a lot of them. Jew, Jew, Jews. Jews do not want to slaughter Palestinians. Jews do not have two navels. Jews do not have horns. Jews do not control the media. Jews do not control the daily content of the media. Jews have never eaten Christian children or killed Christian children. Jews do not run the United States. There is no world Zionist conspiracy. Jew, Jews, Jews. Most Jews are not Zionists. Most Jews are secular. Not all Jews support Israel's internal or external policies. Most Jews are not religious. Jews do not have more money than other people. Jews are not stupider or smarter than other people. Jews do not control the World Bank or world money supply. Jews are not sexier or unsexier than other people. Jews do not harbor gold. Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. Jews are not 'clannish' any more than Chinese, Arabs, Germans, Italians, or Wasps are clannish. Not all Jews believe in God or a God, and at least one rabbi I know is atheist. Jew, Jews, Jews. Jews did not steal Judaism from Blacks. The Jews did not run the slave trade. Jews are no better or worse than any other people. There was and is no Eternal Jew or Wandering Jew. Many Jews protest the policies of Israel. Jews whine no more or less than other people. If a Jew thinks Israel has the right to exist, that doesn't make him or her a Zionist. Not all Israelis are Jews and not all Jews are Israelis. If a Jew thinks Palestine has a right to exist, that doesn't make him or her anti-Jewish or anti-Israeli. Jew, Jews, Jews. Jews do not have big noses. Jews are not gutter people and don't belong to a gutter religion. Most Jewish women are not Jewish American Princesses. Most Jewish men do not wear yalmukahs or go to synagogue. Jews are not bad people. The Protocols of Zion are a forgery. Jews don't conspire any more or less than other people. There is no world-wide Jewish conspiracy. There are no local Jewish conspiracies. Jews are not anti-Christian or anti-Islam. Most Jews read the Torah as a historical document, and very few believe it literally. Very few Jews statistically are religious. Jewish men do not menstruate. No, Jews don't whine over anti-semitism. Most Jews in the United States intermarry (at least this was true a few years ago). Jews do not smell differently than other people. Jews do not stink. Jews are not dirty. Jew, Jews, Jews. Jew, Jews, Jews. Most of this is self-evident. And to be honest, it cripples me to write this. I hear some of these things over and over again. They're on the Net. They're in the streets. They're in the newspapers. I tended to ignore them. I'm writing this to clear my head. There are people who liked me who no longer like me. When I defend Jews, I'm called a Zionist or obsessed with anti-semitism. I'm neither. I want in fact the discourse to go away. I'm more concerned about anti-semitism against Arabs, even in the neighborhood I live in, in Brooklyn. But I can't let this go. It scares me. It preternaturally scares me. A son of a Holocaust survivor I know is frightened it will happen again. I don't feel that way. I watch what this sort of rhetoric does to me. I don't like it. I don't recognize myself in it. I don't think it should occur this late in the game, this 21st century of human barbarism. Be it known the Jews are no more or less barbaric, strangers, than other people. Be it known, I can't escape my heritage, the culture I was raised in. I don't want to pass or have to pass. - Aba __ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 00:17:32 -0500 From: Alan Sondheim Subject: it was on the verge of total connectivity it was on the verge of total connectivity http://www.asondheim.org/verge.jpg coming out of this room years ago now "life is but a memory" and "our future is behind us" _ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 00:41:30 -0500 From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review hey i'm pretty small 5'4 and in high school they called me THE ANGRY TURTLE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 22:20:41 -0800 From: Ishaq Subject: This poster lies: Israel is not a democracy http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/36776.php This poster lies by Arlene Eisen This poster can be seen at bus stops around San Francisco. Don't believe the hype. Photo: Arlene Eisen Israel is not a democracy. Israel is an apartheid state where the government mandates official discrimination against Palestinians, who live as second class citizens within the boundaries of Israel that the UN recognized in 1967. They are 20 percent of the Israeli population, but, in the Israeli Parliament (Knesset), they have only 12 out of 120 seats -- one of which is held by a woman. In 2001, the parliaments of Syria, Tunisia, Morocco, Sudan, Algeria, Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon all had a higher percentage of Arab women than did Israel. This poster, mounted on bus shelters around San Francisco, is a hypocritical attempt to make Israel seem like it cares about Palestinian women's liberation when it continues to deny fundamental human rights not only to Palestinian women but also to their fathers, brothers, sons and husbands. Apartheid in Israel means: l Israel is a "Jewish state" in which Jews are the majority, where Jews are entitled to special treatment and preferential laws and where any Jewish person from anywhere in the world has a right to claim Israeli citizenship. (Palestinians have no right of return to the homes they lived in before Israel pushed them out in 1948.) By privileging Jews, the state treats others as second-class citizens. Israel has no constitution, and its basic law includes no right to equality. l Jewish organizations, like the Jewish National Fund, have semi-governmental status and benefit Jews only. They have special rights to housing, land development, tax benefits. l Only those who have served in the Israeli Army (or Jewish Yeshiva students) are eligible for benefits, including access to public employment, housing, scholarships and mortgages. l Sixty-one percent of Palestinian women with (second-class) Israeli citizenship earn less than minimum wage. An Israeli Jew of European origin makes twice the average pay of a Palestinian Israeli. Of 1,710 directors and managing directors of government-recognized companies, only two are Palestinian women. There is only one Palestinian woman university lecturer in Israel and no Palestinian women high school principals. l Of the 30 areas in Israel with the highest unemployment rates, 26 are Palestinian. l Strict residential segregation is the rule in Israel. Only 8 percent of all Palestinians with (second-class) Israeli citizenship live in cities with Jewish populations, and in those cities, they live in segregated neighborhoods. l One hundred Palestinian villages within 1967 Israeli boundaries are not recognized by the Israeli government and therefore receive no electricity, water or sewer services, no paved roads, schools, hospitals or clinics. (Yet Jewish settlers are 10 percent of the population of the West Bank and Gaza and consume more than 50 percent of the water.) l Palestinians with (second-class) Israeli citizenship cannot buy land and cannot build on land they own without an Israeli permit, which is nearly impossible to secure. l Palestinian political parties admitted into the Knesset cannot stand for election if they take any position against the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land. l Palestinians with (second-class) Israeli citizenship have no freedom of movement. They cannot visit families or friends who live in the West Bank or Gaza. With the new apartheid wall, Israel has grabbed more land and forcibly separated more families. l Palestinians are subject to administrative detention for six months without any charges. Detention may be renewed indefinitely. Whenever Israel declares a state of emergency, Palestinians are subject to military rule with no civil rights. Israel holds 8,000 Palestinian political prisoners -- many of whom are women -- all of whom are separated from their families. Racism against Palestinians is on the rise. In 1998, 39 percent of Jewish youth told survey takers they "hated" Arabs, 44 percent believe "Arab" citizens should be deprived of some of their rights, 19 percent thought "we should get rid of them." And there is not even a pretense of democracy for the nearly 3.5 million Palestinians who live under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. l Since 2000, Israeli soldiers have killed 3,490 Palestinians -- 19 percent of them under the age of 18 -- and injured 28,297. As of March 2004, Israeli soldiers killed 132 Palestinian children and injured 2,500 on their way to or from school. l As of March 2004, the Israeli army destroyed and damaged nearly 20,000 homes, 30 mosques, 12 churches and 134 water wells, uprooted 35,000 olive and fruit trees, closed 850 schools and converted 23 schools into military barracks or detention centers. l According to a UN count completed in July 2004, Israel maintains 703 checkpoints and road closures in the West Bank -- a territory about the same size as the greater Bay Area. These checkpoints and the apartheid wall, which transforms many Palestinian towns into open air prisons, results in most Palestinian people being cut off from their families, schools, fields, jobs, markets, clinics and hospitals. l As a result of this destruction and travel restrictions, 85 percent of Palestinians in Gaza and 58 percent in the West Bank now live in poverty, on less than $2 a day. Data compiled by Arlene Eisen from various internationally-recognized sources. Email her at arlenesreport@yahoo.com . http://www.sfbayview.com/010505/posterlies010505.shtml Mordechai Vanunu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 23:02:57 -0800 From: Peter Quartermain Subject: FW: Senator Boxer on Her Objection to the Certification of Ohio's Electoral Votes I think members of the list might be interested in the following statement. If not, then trash it. >From: "U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer" >Subject: Senator Boxer on Her Objection to the Certification of Ohio's >Electoral Votes >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 19:07:50 -0800 > >=================================================== > >Statement by U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer on Her >Objection to the Certification of Ohio's Electoral Votes > > >For most of us in the Senate and the House, we have spent our >lives fighting for things we believe in - always fighting to >make our nation better. > >We have fought for social justice. We have fought for economic >justice. We have fought for environmental justice. We have >fought for criminal justice. > >Now we must add a new fight - the fight for electoral justice. > >Every citizen of this country who is registered to vote should >be guaranteed that their vote matters, that their vote is >counted, and that in the voting booth of their community, their >vote has as much weight as the vote of any Senator, any >Congressperson, any President, any cabinet member, or any CEO >of any Fortune 500 Corporation. > >I am sure that every one of my colleagues - Democrat, >Republican, and Independent - agrees with that statement. That >in the voting booth, every one is equal. > >So now it seems to me that under the Constitution of the United >States, which guarantees the right to vote, we must ask: > >Why did voters in Ohio wait hours in the rain to vote? Why >were voters at Kenyan College, for example, made to wait in >line until nearly 4 a.m. to vote because there were only two >machines for 1300 voters? > >Why did poor and predominantly African-American communities >have disproportionately long waits? > >Why in Franklin County did election officials only use 2,798 >machines when they said they needed 5,000? Why did they hold >back 68 machines in warehouses? Why were 42 of those machines >in predominantly African-American districts? > >Why did, in Columbus area alone, an estimated 5,000 to 10,000 >voters leave polling places, out of frustration, without >having voted? How many more never bothered to vote after they >heard about this? > >Why is it when 638 people voted at a precinct in Franklin >County, a voting machine awarded 4,258 extra votes to George >Bush. Thankfully, they fixed it - but how many other votes did >the computers get wrong? > >Why did Franklin County officials reduce the number of >electronic voting machines in downtown precincts, while adding >them in the suburbs? This also led to long lines. > >In Cleveland, why were there thousands of provisional ballots >disqualified after poll workers gave faulty instructions to >voters? > >Because of this, and voting irregularities in so many other >places, I am joining with Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones >to cast the light of truth on a flawed system which must be >fixed now. > >Our democracy is the centerpiece of who we are as a nation. >And it is the fondest hope of all Americans that we can help >bring democracy to every corner of the world. > >As we try to do that, and as we are shedding the blood of our >military to this end, we must realize that we lose so much >credibility when our own electoral system needs so much >improvement. > >Yet, in the past four years, this Congress has not done >everything it should to give confidence to all of our people >their votes matter. > >After passing the Help America Vote Act, nothing more was done. > >A year ago, Senators Graham, Clinton and I introduced >legislation that would have required that electronic voting >systems provide a paper record to verify a vote. That paper >trail would be stored in a secure ballot box and invaluable in >case of a recount. > >There is no reason why the Senate should not have taken up and >passed that bill. At the very least, a hearing should have >been held. But it never happened. > >Before I close, I want to thank my colleague from the House, >Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones. > >Her letter to me asking for my intervention was substantive and >compelling. > >As I wrote to her, I was particularly moved by her point that >it is virtually impossible to get official House consideration >of the whole issue of election reform, including these >irregularities. > >The Congresswoman has tremendous respect in her state of Ohio, >which is at the center of this fight. > >Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones was a judge for 10 years. >She was a prosecutor for 8 years. She was inducted into the >Women's Hall of Fame in 2002. > >I am proud to stand with her in filing this objection. > > >=================================================== > > >U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) sent the following letter to >Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones on January 5, 2005: > >January 5, 2005 > > >The Honorable Stephanie Tubbs Jones >1009 Longworth H.O.B. >U.S. House of Representatives >Washington, D.C. 20515 > >Dear Representative Tubbs Jones: > >I am in receipt of your letter that spelled out concerns about >the election irregularities in Ohio during the November 2004 >election. > >The fact that you are from Ohio and that you are a former judge >gives great weight and much credibility to the points you cited >and to your plea that these issues be addressed by the Congress. > >I was particularly moved by your point that it is virtually >impossible to get official House consideration of the whole >issue of election reform, including these irregularities. > >I have concluded that objecting to the electoral votes from >Ohio is the only immediate way to bring these issues to light >by allowing you to have a two-hour debate to let the American >people know the facts surrounding Ohio's election. > >I will therefore join you in your objection to the >certification of Ohio's electoral votes. Attached is my >signature on a copy of your written objection. > >Sincerely, > >Barbara Boxer >United States Senator > > >=================================================== > >For more information on Senator Boxer's record and other >information, please go to: http://www.boxer.senate.gov > >If you would like to make a comment regarding this or any other >federal matter, please feel free to do so at: >http://www.boxer.senate.gov/contact/webform.cfm > >If this message reached you in error, or if you would like to >cancel your subscription, please reply to this message with >unsubscribe in the subject line. ======================================= "It's no disgrace to come from Texas; it's just a disgrace to have to go back there." Kinky Friedman. The Prisoner of Vandam Street. ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 23:34:04 -0800 From: Paul Catafago Subject: Re: A great Chinese poet and the Nobel Prize (OPEN, especially Lit Profs) On reading Lucas Klein's brilliant post, I agree I should have included some of Huang Xiang's poetry. Here is some. As well, his book, "A Bilingual Edition of Poetry out of Communist China by Huang Xiang" is available through Mellen Press (www.mellenpress.com) Thanks again, Lucas, Hope you enjoy these poems. Catafago www.movementone.org All poems by Huang Xiang and translated by Andrew Emerson DRY BONES After millions of years, Millions of years in the layered earth Maybe someone will Dig up my Bones At that time He may imagine A far-distant geological age A history remote and indistinct Are these the decayed bones of his own first ancestor Or the fossil of an ancient biologic skeleton At that time, Could he imagine that This very pile of dry bones In the world once made their sound Loved Hated Mourned Cried out Agitated He may imagine That this pile of dry bones Once had a face contorted with bitterness Once had eyes that cursed in silence Once silently endured with bloodless lips tight-closed Once wrote poems as eternal as the moon and stars These are the bones of a poet These are the bones of one who while hoping, lost hope, gave up hope These are bones that furiously fought These are the bones of one who walked this world, struggled, was tempered These are the bones of a skeleton shattered and all put together again these scattered dry bones of a man These are the dry bones of jaws that ground together from hatred These are the dry bones that resisted, loudly clanking These are the dry bones that have seen the heavenly lightning strike, have listened, head-cocked, to the growing clamor of all the earth's creatures These are the dry bones of a Man After millions of years, Millions of years in the layered earth A future anthropologist Geologist Or archeologist When digging up my dead bones Will, please, under this same burning sun Raise up these remains of water and air, and Seek out the Man. (1968) SINGING ALONE Who am I I am the lonely soul of a waterfall A poem Dwelling forever in Solitude My drifting song is a dream's wandering Trace My only audience The still (1962) CHINA, YOU CAN'T REMAIN SILENT You look like a big docile sea turtle, oh China, You slowly creep along, always with your head in your shell Or dopily try to sleep, lying on a misty beach. Respond to the call of the far-off thunder-claps, To the call of the roaring gale I say, "China, you cannot, you cannot remain silent any more." On the backer of that contract for endless ages of humiliation, I see you have compliantly affixed your name and seal; You hang your head humbly before that empty promise, And generations of your descendants quietly say, "Yes." Your chance has come, oh China, History is waiting for you The whole world is intently calling and listening for you to say one word ---- "No!" (1976) SOLITARY CONFINEMENT Water Drops Are daylight's only Drops of Scenery Dreams Sharp and clear like nighttime's Bells And gongs Years of sibilant droplets' Dripping Sounds Prisoners' bare heads Ringing Drops of Deep Penetrating Gloom A thousand prisoners in This Instant A thousand dreams in This Drop (1990, in Wang Wu Prison) GUITAR On my body are two guitar strings One is the Yellow River One is the Yangtze River They are tightly strung on my back Thrumming now two vibrant syllables in my Own language: China! China! China! With every strum My body is bowed deeper in depression While the many tears of nostalgia Embracing my wafting Cries Cascade from Within me (2000) I SEE A WAR I see a war, an invisible war Being waged in everyone's facial expression Being waged in countless loudspeakers Being waged in the ever-frightened look in everyone's eyes Being waged in the nerve stems beneath everyone's cerebral cortex It is devastating everyone Devastating every part end element of people's bodies and minds It uses invisible weapons to press the attack, invisible bayonets, cannons and bombs to press the attack This is an evil war It is the intangible extension of a tangible war. It is being waged in the front windows of bookstores Waged in libraries, and in every song that is taught and sung Waged in the first year textbooks of grade-schools Waged in every actor's actions and lines and ever performer's posturing, all exactly the same I see bayonets and soldiers patrolling the lines of my poems To search into everyone's consience A stupid, benighted and harsh power oppresses all, dominates all In face of this terrible unprecedented attack I see sexual relations in decay The living in a state of mental disorder Schizophrenia spreading unchecked, individuality eliminated Ah, you invisible war, you evil war You are the continuation and extension of 2,500 years of war to consolidate feudal power You are the concentration and expansion of 2,500 years of war to enslave people's minds You bomb You blast You kill You slaughter But human nature does not die, conscience does not die, people's freedom of spirit does not die The natural instincts and desires of man's body and soul Can never be wrenched away or wholly destroyed 1969 SILENT GRAINFIELD IN THE DISTANCE A silent grainfield in the distance On the slope of a hill forms a dark-brown river-bank. Small clustered violets bob on the wind, From time to time nodding their heads to look at the two of us. We quietly bow and give them little smiles, My darling, why are your charming lips so pale? Are you thinking of some long-gone far-off matter, Or of the dimming sunlight of the spring? Hear far-off, there's the sound of a dike collapsing, Like the sound of the smacking lips of a cow munching grass; The wind bears the sticky sweetness of budding leaves, Our fog-befuddled youth returns into our hearts. And so we two become children once again, Unable now to recognize each other, under the skies of another time. Oh, the honeyed grief, the bitter tears, Should we really know each other, my darling . . . . . From "My Symphony", 1977 WE HAVE BEEN KEPT APART FOR SO LONG We have been kept apart for so long a time, my wife So long that the puppy yoou were raising has grown up. So long that even the sparrows beneath the eaves have grown old. The love-birds that you kept in a cage have died because you forgot to feed them; the cloud-white long-haired rabbit you kept has run off for lack of loving care. My wife, we have been kept apart for so long At this time of reunion, oh my wife, why does your silence hurt me so? You come out of your small kitchen, your apron giving off the odor of cooking, a hint of laundry soap on your wash-whitened hands. Why do you turn your face away from me? Why do you hide your two small hands behind your back? Turn your head towards me, my wife, I've already noticed that black mole of deep-hidden sadness on your female forehead. Stretch out your hands to me, oh my wife, let me gently kiss that pair of small rough hands that have suffered for the world Your bitterness, o'erlain with bloody scratches, eats at my heart. Written at night, hurriedly, under a blanket, in WangWu Prison, 1988 WOMB I haven't left the stage. The backdrop sky is still my deep-blue gaze. A pregnant black bear hides in the cliff-top. I return into myself. Bulging rocks are my starting muscles. Flood waters recede. Coiled behind me The whole thing hoary as an ancient mammoth pulls back on two sides Mountain peaks peel back. The Earth's surface splits open. The earth opens up a sloping doorway. I don a zebra. A golden leopard. A peacock's tailfeathers, cruelly beautiful. Waves of water buffet me. Swelling roots split me. The pillared cliffs, deep red in the setting sun, are motionless in collapse, My guts daubed with red, and all seized up. A giant fragment of cliff-rock marks and cuts out my facial openings, and etches blue-black waves of dry-winds and a grainy sand-yellow mantle. I shape the heavens into a woman's graceful arcing posture Yellow limbs suspend the silence Of the cliffs. The shaking cliffs revolve in spirals. A bunch of red clouds ravenously lick the hollow bones of the giant cliffs' morality. A native girl, facing upwards to conceive Props open The swirling cliffs' Dark Opening The center of time I return to immobility. August 11, 1985 Lucas Klein wrote: Does anyone else feel uneasy about the idea of nominating Huang Xiang for Nobel Prize when none of his poems are quoted, when more attention is paid to his biography than to his output? Certainly the writer's life has influenced the Nobel decision in the past, but usually this is pointed out to undermine the sincerity of the prize, rather than recommend someone to its ranks. I'm a huge advocate of Chinese poetry, but I've never heard of Huang Xiang outside of the context of Movement One, and I don't think I've been given anything to advocate. And as much as anyone on the Swedish Academy says that the prize is awarded to a writer without concern for anyone else writing in that language, the fact is that it took a hundred years for the Nobel committee to find anyone in Chinese literature. Gao Xingjian--laureate in 2000, whose works are also banned in mainland China--got the prize when many in China were at least as worthy (Ba Jin, Shi Zhecun, Mo Yan, Yu Hua), and in some ways it's too bad: he received his nod too recently for anyone else--including the surviving Misty Poets, such as Bei Dao, Yang Lian, Shu Ting, Jiang He--to be honored, anyway. A word of advice to Paul Catafago and the Movement One backers of Huang Xiang, anyway: the person who really matters here is Goran Malmqvist, the only Chinese scholar on the Swedish Academy. He's the one who translated Gao Xingjian's works into Swedish for the rest of the Academy to read, and he's the one whose ear you ought to bend if you want your man to get a Nobel. Lucas -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Catafago Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 5:48 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: A great Chinese poet and the Nobel Prize (OPEN, especially Lit Profs) Our organization, Movement One:Creative Coalition, a New York based arts and eduaction non-profit that amongst other things has originated and organized the annual Queens International Poetry Festival, has begun a campaign to have Huang Xiang, the great Chinese poet, recognized with the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2005. Imprisoned twelve years- and twice put on death row- because he was the organizaer of the Democracy Wall Movement during the Cutlural Revolution, Huang Xiang is a poet whose work has been compared to that of Pablo Neruda's, Anna Ahkmatova's, Walt Whitman's and Nazim Hikmet (who ironically was imprisoned twelve years in his own native country- Turkey). Though less known than other Chinese writers (his work is still banned in China), Huang Xiang has had over fifteen books published, and just last year, Mellen Press put out the first book of English translations of his work, A Bilingual edition of Poetry Out Of Communist China by Huang Xiang. Currently, Huang Xiang and his wife, the writer Qiuxao Yulan live in Pittsburgh, hosted by the International Network of the Cities of Asylum (whose President is Russell Banks). Under the rules set forth by the Nobel Committee, there are four types of individuals who can nominate someone for the Nobel: 1)members of the Swedish Academy or similar academy (therefore, we believe you are eligible if you are a member of the Academy of American Poets 2)Professors of Literature or Linguistics at a university or college 3)Past winners of the Nobel Prize 4)Presdent of a "Society of Authors" such as PEN, etc. If you fit any of those criteria, we urge you nominate Huang Xiang for the Nobel Prize in Literature. For more information, click on the nobel campaign link on our website, or write back to me. Thank you Paul Catafago Executive Director Movement One: Creative Coalition 46-15 90th Street Elmhurst, NY 11373 (718) 592-5958 paulcatafago@movementone.org www.movementone.org "The Source Is One" Paul Catafago Executive Director Movement One: Creative Coalition 46-15 90th Street Elmhurst, NY 11373 (718)592-5958 paulcatafago@movementone.org www.movementone.org "The Source Is One" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 20:31:39 +1300 From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Jews wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrongwrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrongwrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrongwrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible blood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer now ha ha mass murderer ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! masssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss !!used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha amas murder ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Addie didnt finish the job off - Iam now convinced that Jews eat babies. didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job offdidnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off I used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people and loving but last night I had a terrible blood loud dream and woke up as a mass murdererhad a terrible dream and woke up as a mass murdererhad a terrible dream and woke up as a mass murdererhad a terrible dream and woke up as a mass murderer. had a terrible dream and woke up as a mass murderer.Sorry - you are wrong. wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong used to be a liberal and kind to people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Addie didnt finish the job off - Iam now convinced that Jews eat babies. didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job offdidnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off I used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people used to be a liberal and kind to people and loving but last nightIhadaterrible dreamand woke up asa massmurdererhad wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong I am losing friends I am losing friends I am losing friends I am losing friends aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! .!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Addie didnt finish the job off - Iam now convinced that Jews eat babies. didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job offdidnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off I used to be a liberal and kind to people use Jews do want to slaughter Palestinians. > Jews do have two navels. > Jews do have horns. > Jews do control the media. > Jews do control the daily content of the media. > Jews have always eaten Christian children or killed Christian children .Jews do not want to slaughter Palestinians. > Jews do not have two navels. > Jews do not have horns. > wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong Jews do not control the media. > Jews do not control the daily content of the media. > Jews have never eaten Christian children or killed Christian children Jews do not want to slaughter Palestinians. > Jews do not have two navels.Jews do not have more money than other people. used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha a mass murderer ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha amas murderer ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha a mass murderer ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha a mass murder ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha a mass murderer ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! > Jews are stupider or smarter than other people. > Jews do control the World Bank or world money supply. >###################################################### $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ **************************************************************************** ******* World Bank World Bank World Bank World Bank World Bank World World Bank World Bank WOOOOOORRRLLLLLLLDDDDDDDDD Jews are sexier or unsexier than other people. other other other other SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX IIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Jews do harbor gold.Jews do harbor goldJews do harbor goldJews do harbor goldJews do harbor goldJews do harbor goldJews do harbor gold > ###################################################### $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ **************************************************************************** ******* ###################################################### $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ **************************************************************************** ******* Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. > Jews are 'clannish' any more than Chinese > Jews do have horns.harbor gold. > Jews most likely have more sex than other people. > Jews are 'clannish' any more more more > Jews do control the media.harbor gold. > Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. > Jews are 'clannish' any more > Jews do control the daily content of the media.harbor gold. > Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. > Jews are 'clannish' any more > Jews have AlWAYS!! eaten Christian children or killed Christian children .harbor gold. > Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. > Jews are 'clannish' any more are are are are are are are are are are doooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! doooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are are !!!!! aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I used to be all liberal - but gooooooooodbyeeeee to all that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off didnt finish the job off used to be a liberal and kind to people but now I had a terrible bllood filled dream and I''m a mass murderer ha ha amas murder ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!! are do most aredomostaredomostaredomostaredomosaredomostaredomosttaredomost do control do control do control do control do control do control do control the world mediathe world mediathe world mediathe world media hahahahhahahhahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahhahahhahah!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and everyone thinks im nice thinks im nice thinks im nice thinks im nice hahahahhahahahahahhahahhahhaaaahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ###################################################### $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ **************************************************************************** ******* I used to be a liberal and kind to people I used to be a liberal and kind to people I used to be a liberal and kind to people I used to be a liberal and kind to people I used to be.......................................................................... ..... Sorry Alan - I couldnt resist! - your posts DO evoke responses! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 6:09 PM Subject: Jews > Jews > > > I am losing friends over this. I reach states of no return over this. > I respond poorly and unfairly. I'm tired of thinking of myself, 'Jew,' > and listening and watching 'Jew' return in guises I don't recognize. > Needless to say: > > Jews did not leave the World Trade Center just before it was hit. > Jews came to work that day like everyone else. > It was not a Zionist conspiracy. > Jews did not cause the Tsunami. > Jews went through the Holocaust which killed a lot of them. > Jew, Jew, Jews. > Jews do not want to slaughter Palestinians. > Jews do not have two navels. > Jews do not have horns. > Jews do not control the media. > Jews do not control the daily content of the media. > Jews have never eaten Christian children or killed Christian children. > Jews do not run the United States. > There is no world Zionist conspiracy. > Jew, Jews, Jews. > Most Jews are not Zionists. > Most Jews are secular. > Not all Jews support Israel's internal or external policies. > Most Jews are not religious. > Jews do not have more money than other people. > Jews are not stupider or smarter than other people. > Jews do not control the World Bank or world money supply. > Jews are not sexier or unsexier than other people. > Jews do not harbor gold. > Jews most likely have as much and no more sex than other people. > Jews are not 'clannish' any more than Chinese, Arabs, Germans, Italians, > or Wasps are clannish. > Not all Jews believe in God or a God, and at least one rabbi I know is > atheist. > Jew, Jews, Jews. > Jews did not steal Judaism from Blacks. > The Jews did not run the slave trade. > Jews are no better or worse than any other people. > There was and is no Eternal Jew or Wandering Jew. > Many Jews protest the policies of Israel. > Jews whine no more or less than other people. > If a Jew thinks Israel has the right to exist, that doesn't make him or > her a Zionist. > Not all Israelis are Jews and not all Jews are Israelis. > If a Jew thinks Palestine has a right to exist, that doesn't make him or > her anti-Jewish or anti-Israeli. > Jew, Jews, Jews. > Jews do not have big noses. > Jews are not gutter people and don't belong to a gutter religion. > Most Jewish women are not Jewish American Princesses. > Most Jewish men do not wear yalmukahs or go to synagogue. > Jews are not bad people. > The Protocols of Zion are a forgery. > Jews don't conspire any more or less than other people. > There is no world-wide Jewish conspiracy. > There are no local Jewish conspiracies. > Jews are not anti-Christian or anti-Islam. > Most Jews read the Torah as a historical document, and very few believe it > literally. > Very few Jews statistically are religious. > Jewish men do not menstruate. > No, Jews don't whine over anti-semitism. > Most Jews in the United States intermarry (at least this was true a few > years ago). > Jews do not smell differently than other people. > Jews do not stink. > Jews are not dirty. > Jew, Jews, Jews. > Jew, Jews, Jews. > > Most of this is self-evident. And to be honest, it cripples me to write > this. I hear some of these things over and over again. They're on the Net. > They're in the streets. They're in the newspapers. I tended to ignore > them. I'm writing this to clear my head. There are people who liked me who > no longer like me. When I defend Jews, I'm called a Zionist or obsessed > with anti-semitism. I'm neither. I want in fact the discourse to go away. > I'm more concerned about anti-semitism against Arabs, even in the > neighborhood I live in, in Brooklyn. But I can't let this go. It scares > me. It preternaturally scares me. A son of a Holocaust survivor I know is > frightened it will happen again. I don't feel that way. I watch what this > sort of rhetoric does to me. I don't like it. I don't recognize myself in > it. I don't think it should occur this late in the game, this 21st century > of human barbarism. Be it known the Jews are no more or less barbaric, > strangers, than other people. Be it known, I can't escape my heritage, the > culture I was raised in. I don't want to pass or have to pass. > > - Aba > > > __ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 02:38:09 -0500 From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... the poem's in no hurry i play with each part vow & con a small dick in evry tender hole.... 3:00....frreezin rain..the work...drn... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 02:45:38 -0500 From: Harry Nudel Subject: Jews.... on ZION... drn.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 00:39:58 -0800 From: George Bowering Subject: Re: oink, oink, oink! What do you expect? You don't live in a democracy. g On 7-Jan-05, at 4:10 AM, Lawrence Sawyer wrote: > The new theoretical faces on Mt. Rushmore. > > Bill Gates > Rupert Murdoch > George W. Bush > > (and the thousands of lackeys feeding at their trough of hypocrisy > and greed...) > > > And Schwarzenegger is now talking about REDISTRICTING in California. > > Republicans won't rest until they own Hollywood and thus own America's > mind (they already own your ass). > > Bringing racism, homophobia, and murder to a theater NEAR YOU! > > Three cheers for the EMPIRE, OINK, OINK, OINK! > > Whatcha gonna do when they come for you? > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 00:42:21 +0900 From: Jesse Glass Subject: That's The Way You know, Mairead, that's the best method for dealing with uppity editors at large like Messr. Dave Barratier, who tends ta drag that left foot of his into da match a little too much since the Blood Tubs knocked him cold half a year back. Call him a wag and then go right for the throat--Just exactly when will you be publishing those poems of mine hmmmmmmmmm? Your feint has him off balance and now he's circling, gloves up before his face, assuming that "crazy Dave" stance that's gotten him so many championships in the past. But this time, at "da Zinc baa" it just ain't gonna work, I know it! Mano a Mano, Mairead! Mano a Mano! Work da body and den da head. If you kill da body, da head ain't got noplace to go! Be careful. though. Don't let him get his capacious brow south of your chin 'cause maybe he's gonna come up real sudden and you'll be seeing stars for the rest of da evening and spittin' a few teeth too! He's been known to save a match when he was down on one knee and panting hard using just such a technique! I wish I could see yer match and be there to keep his Pavement Saw Uglies from turning this tea party into a real dust up, but am now on the final leg of a journey to and from the U.S.A. that's been--to say da least-- a memorable one for the covert movement of Gouged Eagles, if you get my drift. Jet-lagged and seeing things that ain't there out of the corners of my eyes, and looking around for some bee-pollen extract to knock back and thereby keep this old confection of fat, sugar and gristle viable for another fortnight, I'm sending some of my best boys your way--you'll recognize them from your match against The Benecia Boy last fall--Johnny Twist and Tiny Moe from da Bowery. They send their regards to yew and da little ones. You can rely on them to keep everything on the up and up, Mairead. Next time I hear from ya, I expect to be congratulatin' you for making short work of ol' Dancin' Dave. We'll show 'em that we ain't French froofroos or paste-board curlacues waintin' for a wet squib to stack a cloud or two the way of the Five Points. We'll dazzle dem with some peacock footwork. But I caution ya, watch yer back. If he brings that Missus of his make sure she's patted down real good for da knuckle dusters she generally keeps here and there on her person. How do I know this? Rat Boy keeps me up ta snuff. I've got some of my own Hard Earned ridin' on you, Mairead, so feel free to land that famous roundhouse whenever yew so desire! And tell that manager of yers to send whatever accrues to me c/o Wang Fat on da lower East side. It'll catch up to me when I have the long lay-over in Macau previous to the long last stretch to Nagasaki, Nippon. The Sleepless Eye. J.G. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 01:01:12 +0900 From: Jesse Glass Subject: Thanks To Boog, It's Working And it worked and was fine. Many thanks to Dave K. and everyone who showed up on the 6th to see us and sample our goods. Am hard-pressed to say more because the old pilot light is fading fast, but thanks, thanks, and thanks again for the many kindnesses! You have made a record in my heart! Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:17:29 -0500 From: Alan Sondheim Subject: wha hapen afte luve is gon wha hapen afte luve is gon http://www.asondheim.org/luveyoubaby.jpg wha hapen afte luve is gon ta'ane yalewa luvena luve'a peipei a'ma'a manumanu view the details of this row naitasiri tagwane yalewa gone lada baba tamata manumanu art of europe all the poetry gone to here n then europe all the poetry gone to here n then there's elsewhere o my luve's like a red red rose ye banks and braes o' bonnie doon byron luve hunur churush and obuy hunur churush and obuy outsider apparently it s old news but somehow it escaped outsider which technically means its news to him gone fishing upstairs downstairs lyrics thousand mile and i will come again my luve tho' 'twere on its daddy's knee and me poor girl to be dead and gone with the specimenmerle extgroupsdebatesbirddebatesmerleandnspecimenmerlehtml sic grace off bewty bontie richess tyme or space and every gudness that bene to cum or gone the thank redoundis to him in every place all luve is christina georgina rossetti remember me when i am gone away gone far away into the silent land o my luve's like a red red rose fuckedsportscom kobe fans gone wild kobe fans gone wild posted by i know that's right on august pm dats right i rapes bitches n everyboy luve me new lovelife dances by william copper that lonely pair o my luve's like a red red rose by robert burns score sample pdf format oh my luve's like a red red devotedto weel a while and i will come again my luve tho' it were ten thousand mile! r burns he is gone he is gone and we cast away moan gaughan's song archive fair flouer o northumberland dochter daughter text doun down text dune her doun gone down text reluctant text her lane alone text lowse free text luve love text im guna be in da ct fo da rest ov da week so mabe i wont be able to blogso yeah skim i luve liddol corriethe st time!!! biography of robert burns poet of scotland discouraged and dissipated ah yes that good oldfashioned word burns died at the age of having gone against his doctor's advice to give up the my luve best love poems of all times i love poems out the abridged alphabet after you're dead and gone in this o my luve 's like a red red rose that 's newly sprung in june o my goldenessays poetry free essays free research papers free wishes her wellbeing and hopes that she remains healthy awhile for it seems he will be gone from her for some time and fare thee weel my only luve and fare super duper luve fell in love with a boy haunted burn htm super duper luve joss stone gotta do now to get my shorty back ooo ooo ooo ooooh man i dont know what im gonna do without my boo ooo she been gone for too deviantart ap sketchbook art fixed! by ~luve # date sep pm tell me about it i cannot fix itno matter how many time i reupload or reformat das gone all search for "fair as a day in june" provided by poetry connection died march and my father born february died june gone i say o my luve s like a red red rose that s newly sprung in june o search results for "gwendolyn brooks gang girl" american poems fair art thou my bonnie lass so deep in luve am i and i will luve thee still my dear till a' the seas the dog is gone the girl is gone i go to these scriptcrawler board pirates of the caribbean s anyway "welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" bloom!!!!! welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" weel a while and i will come again my luve tho' it were ten thousand mile! r burns he is gone he is gone and we cast away moan poems most famous poems and blessing for a your italian wedding i will come again my luve though it were ten thousand mile is dead are heaped for the beloved's bedand so thy thoughts when thou art gone love itself scriptcrawler board pirates of the caribbean s billion "welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" last old "welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" scriptcrawler board potc audits info s no i tried searching google with the casting ppls names and still couldnt get anything "welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" scriptcrawler board potc audits info no i tried searching google with the casting ppls names and still couldnt get anything "welcome to the caribbean luve" "but why is the rum gone" view topic whi do ewe luve snowbrding snowboard club uk ont tway asi gone oot fer neet mattwildrnes post subject re re whi do ewe luve snowbrding postposted nov pm view topic whi do ewe luve snowbrding snowboard club uk i'm ont tway asi gone oot fer neet mattwildrnes post subject re re whi do ewe luve snowbrding postposted nov pm search for "queenlily june with a rose in her hair" provided by erhair all that hair flashing over the atlantic henry's girl's gone o my luve s like a red red rose that s newly sprung in june o my luve s like the melodie listmania! my fav fantasy history bookswith a lil bit of ikkr meeoh's comments liraellibrarian gone adventurer!! i like itluve the twists and of course the dog! hehecome on mr nix waiting for abhorsen! artbeat chicago love poems | wttw fast it seems that i had lost her now my true love was gone at last a red red rose by robert burns o my luve's like a red red rose the child ballads fause foodrage but he was nae seventeen when he is to the garden gone to slay c eastmure king and westmuir king and king o luve a three it s they the child ballads the laird of logie the queen s ferrie and now the lady has gotten hir luve the winsom c she s into the queen s chamber gone she has kneeld low down on until then graphics mother's day miss thee mother window to yesterday i luve mom times gone by loving bonds precious moments in line frame set bonds of love new life love classic movies wizard charm bracelet raceletclscfm get love classic movies gone with the wind charm bracelet | | need great gone with the wind rhett classic movie theme bracelet be search for "sacrifice so dear" __ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:04:07 -0800 From: Jon Corelis Subject: The One Great Poem (introduction) The interesting recent discussion of Joan Houlihan's review prompts me to= submit to this group an essay of my own, "The One Great Poem: The Poetri= es of The Oxford Books of English Verse," originally published in the English p= oetry magazine Acumen, which may also provoke some useful dialog on this list. I'm not claiming my pronouncements are so profound as to compel everyone'= s respect, but it seems reasonable to suppose that they will draw attention= here for the much the same reason as Houlihan's review did: like it, this ess= ay deals with issues with which many list members are personally or professionally engaged, and it makes direct judgments which some people a= re likely to endorse, and others will surely take strong exception to. In o= ther words, I'm presenting myself here not as an authority giving a lecture, b= ut as something more like the guy at the carnival sitting on a collapsible benc= h above a tub of water, and inviting you all to throw the balls which will = dump him in. Though the essay is not particularly long -- some three or four printed p= ages -- it's a bit too long to fit within the size limit stipulated by the lis= t guidelines. It's available on line, but I've found that just posting a U= RL often doesn't lead to much discussion. So as a compromise, I'll give in = my next message the first part of the article with a pointer to the whole version. I encourage everyone to be as forthcoming in their reactions to this essa= y as I was in writing it. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:05:10 -0800 From: Jon Corelis Subject: The One Great Poem = The One Great Poem: The poetries of The Oxford Books of English Verse = When The Oxford Book of English Verse by A. T. Quiller-Couch appeare= d in 1900, Punch recommended it as "a most useful book for those who, being no= t 'unaccustomed to public speaking' and loving to embellish their flow of language with quotations from poets whose works they have never read ... = are only too grateful to any well-read collector placing so excellent a store= as this at their service," and predicted that because those who owned his anthology would be spared the tedious necessity of actually reading poetr= y, "many an after-dinner and learned society speaker will bless the name of = this 'Q. C.'" Behind its deadpan humor, this statement tells us quite a bit= about taste and the anthologist's relation to it in the world into which = the Oxford Book was born: if the joke depends on the reality that few people= read poetry, it equally depends on the pretence that everybody is supposed to,= and it also implies a canon of poetry which one ought to read. Such had cert= ainly been the case in the day of Q's mentor Francis Palgrave, who said in his preface to The Golden Treasury, the progenitor of the three successive Ox= ford books here to be considered, that he would "regard as his fittest readers= those who love poetry so well that he can offer them nothing not already = known and valued," which assumes there exists a body of verse valued by social= consensus. Q's own characterization of his job as "to bring home and rend= er so great a spoil [of poetry] compendiously ... to serve those who already = love poetry and to implant that love in some young minds not yet initiated," = places him squarely in his mentor's tradition as summarizer and transmitt= er of the nation's poetic taste. = If Q then was following taste, where did it lead him? Did he produce = an anthology giving us a unified array of poems which are, in those words of= Shelley which Palgrave had quoted as The Golden Treasury's program, "epis= odes to that great Poem which all poets, like the co-operating thoughts of one= great mind, have built up since the beginning of the world"? Does his bo= ok embody that one great poem? And if so, what does it tell us about that o= ne great mind? = Reading the opening pages of Q's 1939 edition (on which the comments i= n this essay will be based), we may see them as an overture, presenting the= motifs and tensions through which English poetry will evolve. The very f= irst poem, the "Cuckoo Song," with its joyous bird singing amid the irrepressi= ble regeneration of the natural world, seems drawn from an England that exist= ed before the English nation or even the English language, a pagan England i= n which nature did not have to be redeemed because it was already sacred. = This animist substrate of consciousness, usually incarnate (it is deeper than symbolism) in wild bird song, is a constant musical accompaniment to the subsequent voice of English lyric as recorded in Q's selections; often hu= shed, sometimes to silence, it breaks through ecstatically in the 15th century = in the anonymous "Hit is full merry in feyre foreste to here the foulys song= ," becomes a continually interwoven lovers' refrain in the Renaissance with Sydney's Philomel "mournfully bewailing," Shakespeare's Amiens under the greenwood tree in uncruel Arden, who loves to "turn his merry note unto t= he sweet bird's throat," and Nashe's spring when "Young lovers meet" to the chorus of "Cuckoo, jug-jug, pu-we, to-witta-woo!", and then for two centu= ries becomes occasional and tamed, a bird caged in metaphor, like Marvell's birdlike soul which "sits and sings, then whets and combs its silver wing= s," until the wild song is stunningly released again with a passion only made= stronger by six generations of dour Puritanism and rationalist repression= in Shelley, whose skylark "panted forth a flood of rapture so divine." = The "Cuckoo Song" can stand as an example of the thematic nature of Q'= s volume. We might also notice that Q's second piece, "The Irish Dancer," raises the question of the relationship of English poetry to English nationality, a problem to which all three editors of the Oxford books dev= ised very different solutions, none of them to general satisfaction. Or that = the third piece, an erotic upgrading of one Alison in language which verges o= n liturgical, generates echoes of subsequent beloveds whose allure is set f= orth in terms of divine purity. Those who smile at the attribution of such sophisticated programming to the old-fashioned Q ought to consider his co= mment that "the anthologist's is not quite the dilettante business for which it= is too often and ignorantly derided." = From such beginnings Q's anthology presents a poetry evolving by a dialectical process of opposition and reconciliation of fundamental cultu= ral polarities: Christian denial of the world against pagan celebration of nature, aristocratic elegance against homely virtue, and sensual gorgeous= ness against rational austerity, to mention only a few. If this torrent of ve= rse flows within the banks of a limited taste, it also proceeds with almost unremitting excellence until well into the nineteenth century , when it falters badly. The last two hundred and fifty pages are a disaster. Not= all the poetry there is bad, and some which is has an excuse: we may tolerat= e, for instance, encountering lines like "Riches I hold in light esteem, And= Love I laugh to scorn," once we learn that they were written by Emily Bront=EB= , and it must be admitted that some are poems, such as Cory's "Heraclitus," whi= ch we cherish exactly because they are bad, like some appalling lamp given us b= y Auntie twenty years ago which we have come to love not despite but becaus= e of its hideousness. But what we have here for the most part is a parade of inexcusably bad versifiers, = [continued at http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics/oxford.html] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 14:27:44 -0500 From: "patrick@proximate.org" Subject: The Power of Positive Thinking in America ``The sun is shining, the sky is blue and this is America,'' he said. ``Whatever happens is going to happen, but I still feel it's going to be on the positive side.'' - Spc. Charles Graner http://tinyurl.com/4ceet http://tinyurl.com/5pvyb http://tinyurl.com/6m3uc http://tinyurl.com/54yt2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Graner (quote from http://tinyurl.com/69blq) ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at proximate.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 13:23:17 -0800 From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Regarding Chris Sullivan's Slight Puflications ...All High School Basketball Games are local... That's Chris Sullivan in his usual generous commentary - photos and lingua - at his site: http://www.8letters.blogspot.com/ This being An unshameless plug for Chris - currently having abandoned San Francisco for 'hut plus sheetrock' remote out there in the Colorado snow and ice - where I suspect High School basketball is the only entertainment. Fishing his Archives at Slight Publications, I find a great way to get through January. & speaking of the outside, totally recommended is the documentary "Henry Darger: In the Realms of the Unreal" on Chicago's late hermetic artist. With the exception of just a very few doc gimicks, this is very good. If unfamiliar with his work, there's a bunch of Darger mat' on the web. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com Now 'featuring' January pieces from "Crossing the Millennium," a day book project from 1999. Retro is curious and somehow comforting! Pictures to come! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 16:36:32 -0500 From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: That's The Way Okay Listen This Baratier This Mr. D. Baratier What Is He*French? Has the = Nerve to Say*I Can=92t Believe This Listen*Has the Nerve to Say: His Very = Words: *Your chances of being published greatly increase if you send something.* Your Chances Of Being Published Greatly Increase If You Send Something. I Mean: What Is This? Your Chances Of Being Published. Greatly Increase. = Greatly Increase. If You Send Something. I Could Send Someone Out There. = Where Is It? Columbus. Ohio. Yeah I Could Send Someone Out There To = COLUMBUS OHIO Where Is It Near? To Teach Mister D. Baratier R=3DE=3DS=3DP= =3DC=3DE=3DT=20 To Teach Mister B Some Manners & R=3DE=3DS=3DP=3DC=3DE=3DT. But Jesse = What=92s It Worth? Jesse Jesse. You Know Me I Know You. We Been Through It. You Been To The = Boog. =20 I=92m Doing The Zinc. So This Baratier With His Sawhorse Press Gets = Smart. So Let Him. Should I Mess Up My Shirt? I Don=92t Think So. = Should I Disconvenience My Old Friend Dorothy To Go Down There To PO Box = 6291 Columbus O=3DH=3DI=3DO=20 To Show Mister D.B. What=92s What To Teach Mister DBDB a Lesson. Hell = No! Jesse We=92re Brothers. We Been Through It. Jesse When You Gonna = Come Back Stateside? I Can=92t Run Keep Running Things On My Own. Your = Fight Scene=92s Sorta Funny But You Know There=92s No Chance Mister Dave = Is Getting Within 10 Blocks Of The Zinc. But I Kid You Not Brother If = Things Keep Going Keep Going I Almost WILL Send Him Some Poems. You Gotta = Come Back Bro. I Can Take On 50 Mister B=92s. NOBODY=92S Better Than My = Guys. I=92m Feeling No Pain & It's Staying Like That. But When You = Coming Back Jesse. I Need You Bro. I Just Can=92t Keep Going Up There To = The NYPL On My Own No More. So Don=92t Ask Me. Make It Easy For Me: Come = Home Of Your Own. Volition. & Don=92t Make Me Phone*Okay Who=92s in = Tokyo? Where=92s It Near? Why Don=92t Ya Publish My Poems Jesse Why = Don=92t Ya Publish My Poems? M.B. >>> ahadada@GOL.COM 01/08/05 10:42 AM >>> You know, Mairead, that's the best method for dealing with uppity editors at large like Messr. Dave Barratier, who tends ta drag that left foot of his into da match a little too much since the Blood Tubs knocked him cold half a year back. Call him a wag and then go right for the throat--Just exactly when will you be publishing those poems of mine hmmmmmmmmm? Your feint has him off balance and now he's circling, gloves up before his face, assuming that "crazy Dave" stance that's gotten him so many championships in the past. But this time, at "da Zinc baa" it just ain't gonna work, I know it! Mano a Mano, Mairead! Mano a Mano! Work da body and den da head. If you kill da body, da head ain't got noplace to go! Be careful. though. Don't let him get his capacious brow south of your chin 'cause maybe he's gonna come up real sudden and you'll be seeing stars for the rest of da evening and spittin' a few teeth too! He's been known to save a match when he was down on one knee and panting hard using just such a technique! I wish I could see yer match and be there to keep his Pavement Saw Uglies from turning this tea party into a real dust up, but am now on the final leg of a journey to and from the U.S.A. that's been--to say da least-- a memorable one for the covert movement of Gouged Eagles, if you get my drift. Jet-lagged and seeing things that ain't there out of the corners of my eyes, and looking around for some bee-pollen extract to knock back and thereby keep this old confection of fat, sugar and gristle viable for another fortnight, I'm sending some of my best boys your way--you'll recognize them from your match against The Benecia Boy last fall--Johnny Twist and Tiny Moe from da Bowery. They send their regards to yew and da little ones. You can rely on them to keep everything on the up and up, Mairead. Next time I hear from ya, I expect to be congratulatin' you for making short work of ol' Dancin' Dave. We'll show 'em that we ain't French froofroos or paste-board curlacues waintin' for a wet squib to stack a cloud or two the way of the Five Points. We'll dazzle dem with some peacock footwork. But I caution ya, watch yer back. If he brings that Missus of his make sure she's patted down real good for da knuckle dusters she generally keeps here and there on her person. How do I know this? Rat Boy keeps me up ta snuff. I've got some of my own Hard Earned ridin' on you, Mairead, so feel free to land that famous roundhouse whenever yew so desire! And tell that manager of yers to send whatever accrues to me c/o Wang Fat on da lower East side. It'll catch up to me when I have the long lay-over in Macau previous to the long last stretch to Nagasaki, Nippon. The Sleepless Eye. J.G. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:06:05 -0500 From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review Dear Robert, I'm not interested in the Houlihan discussion; I remarked on the possibly sexist character of the criticism and probably shouldn't have, given my lack of interest. It's interesting what you say about Ireland and its ironic culture. I remember, years ago, when I worked in the Queens' Council on the Arts, a younger colleague remarking on my humor (I was only a few months out of Ireland at the time) and just as I was getting ready for bouquets of praise she said how much she hated it: It reminded her of her father, who was of Irish descent. I was shocked: How could anyone *not like* our delightful national wit? 18 years down the line I'm not too crazy about it myself. I associate heavy irony, in the case of Ireland, with the homogeneity of its culture. Irony doesn't translate without that common bottom line. I think one of the reasons I emigrated was to surround myself with difference and to strike myself dumb so the old phrases would no longer work. True enough no-one understood a word I was saying and I had to learn to talk again. Teasing, a southern vice as you say, is probably intensely small-community bound also. Mairead >>> robertmc00@YAHOO.COM 01/07/05 3:11 PM >>> Mairead, My responses are not sexist. They are direct and cutting, but Ms. Houlihan is as well. Ms. is a sign of respect from where I hail, but we do it use it to belittle people. Teasing is a southern vice, but when you have a thoroughly ironic culture (cf. Ireland), that is what you get. It don't mean we wouldn't serve her delicious repast if she visited, but having read her too much I know that she never says anything of interest about actual poems. But let us do read: 1) After a year of metaphorical rocks with unintelligible notes affixed to them crashing through my window and with the tire-squeal of the Winter-Wolfe-Skanky-Possum gang still ringing in my ears, was happy to have a chance to curl up with a hot cup of tea and this respected practitioner's description of what's "best" about such lines as: "no dirt aliens, don't waste good mascara ... " 2) Whatever else can be said of them, the first-person-anecdotal-narrative-confessional (aka 'mainstream') poems that have been outnumbered in this volume by such writings as the above, can at least be critically sorted (some are clearly better than others, regardless of whether or not they fit a particular editor or critic's 'taste'). 3) Fortunately, I had Hejinian's clear prose to guide me. For enlightenment on her selection process, I returned to her introduction: "Dynamic, ever-changing, poetry (and American poetry in particular) is a site of perpetual transitions and unpredictable metamorphoses, but there is no end point in poetry." Comment on no.1: Isn't Houlihan polemical, sarcastic and condescending ("unintelligible notes," "Winter-Wolfe-Skanky-Possum", "respected practictioner." ) There is no gender for pungent language. Comment on no. 2: She can't read LiP, since she can't sort it. She has no measure to weigh the worth of each poem. Houlihan wants to know what poem is best absolutely. This means she wants a poll and a canon. Which relates to number 3 Comment on no 3: Failing to be able to read the poetry, she goes to Heijinian's distinctly clear prose. And fails to note that Heijinian disagrees strongly with her canonizing, cherry-picking technique: "there is no end point to poetry." Yes, we can make local discriminations and say what we like. Aesthetic ideas are concepts. We can discuss them and we wouldn't discuss something that had no content (oh, wait a minute, that is idealistic). But they have no grounding. You can't a priori or rationally choose between them. You can't set up a metric. Heijinian knows her Kant far better than Houlihan. Game match set to Heijinian. My question to Houlihan is why do the review (or not review: aside from lazy selections from two poems, she has nothing specific (and nothing specific to say about the selections either) in the first place when she has nothing to say about the poems. She is simply pontificating about what she thinks is common sense. I reserve comment about what is common about this sense, but Houlihan simply wants to claim that there is no reading of LP or LiP. I think there is strong evidence to believe that many, starting with Fence and Verse but spreading much more widely than this column not worth the paper it is written on, think otherwise. And to Hoerman: I disagree that this is equivalent to Silliman's School of Quietude jab. That is accurate and clever. Houlihan just represents a certain institution giving off steam as it realizes it is losing a grip. Geez, find a critic who at least can read. They are out there. Of course, there is always a danger that they will give up cherished principles in the light of evidence (cf. Empson). Robert Mairead Byrne wrote: Dear All, I also have noticed an aggression, and possibly even a degree of sexism, in the responses to Joan Houlihan's article (which I have read but in which I have no further interest). Perhaps I wrongly associate the pejorative word "shrill" with a negative attitude to a woman speaking in public, especially as, in this case, it was also applied--or implied--to our President. Mairead >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 01/07/05 12:09 PM >>> What are you afraid of by being so defensive about Houlihan's point of view, instead of discussing her objections with some intellect? -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hoerman, Michael A" To: Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review > http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:10:02 -0500 From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review Ah, you should try heterogeneous NYC, as ironic as the old sod any day. Mark At 05:06 PM 1/8/2005, you wrote: >Dear Robert, > >I'm not interested in the Houlihan discussion; I remarked on the >possibly sexist character of the criticism and probably shouldn't have, >given my lack of interest. > >It's interesting what you say about Ireland and its ironic culture. I >remember, years ago, when I worked in the Queens' Council on the Arts, a >younger colleague remarking on my humor (I was only a few months out of >Ireland at the time) and just as I was getting ready for bouquets of >praise she said how much she hated it: It reminded her of her father, >who was of Irish descent. I was shocked: How could anyone *not like* >our delightful national wit? 18 years down the line I'm not too crazy >about it myself. I associate heavy irony, in the case of Ireland, with >the homogeneity of its culture. Irony doesn't translate without that >common bottom line. I think one of the reasons I emigrated was to >surround myself with difference and to strike myself dumb so the old >phrases would no longer work. True enough no-one understood a word I >was saying and I had to learn to talk again. Teasing, a southern vice >as you say, is probably intensely small-community bound also. > >Mairead > > >>> robertmc00@YAHOO.COM 01/07/05 3:11 PM >>> >Mairead, > >My responses are not sexist. They are direct and cutting, but Ms. >Houlihan is as well. Ms. is a sign of respect from where I hail, but we >do it use it to belittle people. Teasing is a southern vice, but when >you have a thoroughly ironic culture (cf. Ireland), that is what you >get. It don't mean we wouldn't serve her delicious repast if she >visited, but having read her too much I know that she never says >anything of interest about actual poems. > >But let us do read: > >1) After a year of metaphorical rocks with unintelligible notes affixed >to them crashing through my window and with the tire-squeal of the >Winter-Wolfe-Skanky-Possum gang still ringing in my ears, was happy to >have a chance to curl up with a hot cup of tea and this respected >practitioner's description of what's "best" about such lines as: "no >dirt aliens, don't waste good mascara ... " > >2) Whatever else can be said of them, the >first-person-anecdotal-narrative-confessional (aka 'mainstream') poems >that have been outnumbered in this volume by such writings as the above, >can at least be critically sorted (some are clearly better than others, >regardless of whether or not they fit a particular editor or critic's >'taste'). > >3) Fortunately, I had Hejinian's clear prose to guide me. For >enlightenment on her selection process, I returned to her introduction: >"Dynamic, ever-changing, poetry (and American poetry in particular) is a >site of perpetual transitions and unpredictable metamorphoses, but there >is no end point in poetry." > >Comment on no.1: Isn't Houlihan polemical, sarcastic and condescending >("unintelligible notes," "Winter-Wolfe-Skanky-Possum", "respected >practictioner." ) There is no gender for pungent language. > >Comment on no. 2: She can't read LiP, since she can't sort it. She has >no measure to weigh the worth of each poem. Houlihan wants to know what >poem is best absolutely. This means she wants a poll and a canon. >Which relates to number 3 > >Comment on no 3: Failing to be able to read the poetry, she goes to >Heijinian's distinctly clear prose. And fails to note that Heijinian >disagrees strongly with her canonizing, cherry-picking technique: >"there is no end point to poetry." Yes, we can make local >discriminations and say what we like. Aesthetic ideas are concepts. We >can discuss them and we wouldn't discuss something that had no content >(oh, wait a minute, that is idealistic). But they have no grounding. >You can't a priori or rationally choose between them. You can't set up >a metric. Heijinian knows her Kant far better than Houlihan. > >Game match set to Heijinian. My question to Houlihan is why do the >review (or not review: aside from lazy selections from two poems, she >has nothing specific (and nothing specific to say about the selections >either) in the first place when she has nothing to say about the poems. >She is simply pontificating about what she thinks is common sense. I >reserve comment about what is common about this sense, but Houlihan >simply wants to claim that there is no reading of LP or LiP. I think >there is strong evidence to believe that many, starting with Fence and >Verse but spreading much more widely than this column not worth the >paper it is written on, think otherwise. > >And to Hoerman: I disagree that this is equivalent to Silliman's School >of Quietude jab. That is accurate and clever. Houlihan just represents >a certain institution giving off steam as it realizes it is losing a >grip. Geez, find a critic who at least can read. They are out there. >Of course, there is always a danger that they will give up cherished >principles in the light of evidence (cf. Empson). > >Robert > > >Mairead Byrne wrote: >Dear All, > >I also have noticed an aggression, and possibly even a degree of sexism, >in the responses to Joan Houlihan's article (which I have >read but in which I have no further interest). Perhaps I wrongly >associate the pejorative word "shrill" with a negative attitude to >a woman speaking in public, especially as, in this case, it was also >applied--or implied--to our President. > >Mairead > > >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 01/07/05 12:09 PM >>> >What are you afraid of by being so defensive about Houlihan's point of >view, >instead of discussing her objections with some intellect? > >-Joel > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Hoerman, Michael A" >To: > >Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:01 AM >Subject: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review > > > > http://www.bostoncomment.com/bostonc9.htm > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:16:18 -0500 From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review { Ah, you should try heterogeneous NYC, as ironic as the old sod any day. { { Mark And who's that old sod, eh? Inquiring New Yorkers wanna know. "I loathe writing. On the other hand I'm a great believer in money. Often when I couldn't pay the grocery bill, Providence intervened and I don't mean my natal city, Providence, which can be counted on for nothing." --S. J. Perelman Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 00:19:31 +0100 From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: The One Great Poem No kidding Jon, there are people who criticise without anyone listening to them because they are the usual ones who anyhow do not like anything, then there are those who know how to hit things down in a professional way, and once this is done, that's about it for a long long time. Anny Ballardini On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:05:10 -0800, Jon Corelis wr= ote: >=20 > The One Great Poem: The poetries of The Oxford Books of English Verse >=20 > When The Oxford Book of English Verse by A. T. Quiller-Couch appeared= in > 1900, Punch recommended it as "a most useful book for those who, being no= t > 'unaccustomed to public speaking' and loving to embellish their flow of > language with quotations from poets whose works they have never read ... = are > only too grateful to any well-read collector placing so excellent a store= as > this at their service," and predicted that because those who owned his > anthology would be spared the tedious necessity of actually reading poetr= y, > "many an after-dinner and learned society speaker will bless the name of = this > 'Q. C.'" Behind its deadpan humor, this statement tells us quite a bit > about taste and the anthologist's relation to it in the world into which = the > Oxford Book was born: if the joke depends on the reality that few people= read > poetry, it equally depends on the pretence that everybody is supposed to,= and > it also implies a canon of poetry which one ought to read. Such had cert= ainly > been the case in the day of Q's mentor Francis Palgrave, who said in his > preface to The Golden Treasury, the progenitor of the three successive Ox= ford > books here to be considered, that he would "regard as his fittest readers > those who love poetry so well that he can offer them nothing not already = known > and valued," which assumes there exists a body of verse valued by social > consensus. Q's own characterization of his job as "to bring home and rend= er so > great a spoil [of poetry] compendiously ... to serve those who already = love > poetry and to implant that love in some young minds not yet initiated," > places him squarely in his mentor's tradition as summarizer and transmitt= er of > the nation's poetic taste. > If Q then was following taste, where did it lead him? Did he produce a= n > anthology giving us a unified array of poems which are, in those words of > Shelley which Palgrave had quoted as The Golden Treasury's program, "epis= odes > to that great Poem which all poets, like the co-operating thoughts of one > great mind, have built up since the beginning of the world"? Does his bo= ok > embody that one great poem? And if so, what does it tell us about that o= ne > great mind? > Reading the opening pages of Q's 1939 edition (on which the comments in > this essay will be based), we may see them as an overture, presenting the > motifs and tensions through which English poetry will evolve. The very f= irst > poem, the "Cuckoo Song," with its joyous bird singing amid the irrepressi= ble > regeneration of the natural world, seems drawn from an England that exist= ed > before the English nation or even the English language, a pagan England i= n > which nature did not have to be redeemed because it was already sacred. = This > animist substrate of consciousness, usually incarnate (it is deeper than > symbolism) in wild bird song, is a constant musical accompaniment to the > subsequent voice of English lyric as recorded in Q's selections; often hu= shed, > sometimes to silence, it breaks through ecstatically in the 15th century = in > the anonymous "Hit is full merry in feyre foreste to here the foulys song= ," > becomes a continually interwoven lovers' refrain in the Renaissance with > Sydney's Philomel "mournfully bewailing," Shakespeare's Amiens under the > greenwood tree in uncruel Arden, who loves to "turn his merry note unto t= he > sweet bird's throat," and Nashe's spring when "Young lovers meet" to the > chorus of "Cuckoo, jug-jug, pu-we, to-witta-woo!", and then for two centu= ries > becomes occasional and tamed, a bird caged in metaphor, like Marvell's > birdlike soul which "sits and sings, then whets and combs its silver wing= s," > until the wild song is stunningly released again with a passion only made > stronger by six generations of dour Puritanism and rationalist repression= in > Shelley, whose skylark "panted forth a flood of rapture so divine." > The "Cuckoo Song" can stand as an example of the thematic nature of Q's > volume. We might also notice that Q's second piece, "The Irish Dancer," > raises the question of the relationship of English poetry to English > nationality, a problem to which all three editors of the Oxford books dev= ised > very different solutions, none of them to general satisfaction. Or that = the > third piece, an erotic upgrading of one Alison in language which verges o= n > liturgical, generates echoes of subsequent beloveds whose allure is set f= orth > in terms of divine purity. Those who smile at the attribution of such > sophisticated programming to the old-fashioned Q ought to consider his co= mment > that "the anthologist's is not quite the dilettante business for which it= is > too often and ignorantly derided." > From such beginnings Q's anthology presents a poetry evolving by a > dialectical process of opposition and reconciliation of fundamental cultu= ral > polarities: Christian denial of the world against pagan celebration of > nature, aristocratic elegance against homely virtue, and sensual gorgeous= ness > against rational austerity, to mention only a few. If this torrent of ve= rse > flows within the banks of a limited taste, it also proceeds with almost > unremitting excellence until well into the nineteenth century , when it > falters badly. The last two hundred and fifty pages are a disaster. Not= all > the poetry there is bad, and some which is has an excuse: we may tolerat= e, > for instance, encountering lines like "Riches I hold in light esteem, And= Love > I laugh to scorn," once we learn that they were written by Emily Bront=EB= , and > it must be admitted that some are poems, such as Cory's "Heraclitus," whi= ch we > cherish exactly because they are bad, like some appalling lamp given us b= y > Auntie twenty years ago which we have come to love not despite but becaus= e of > its hideousness. But what we have here for the most part is a parade of > inexcusably bad versifiers, >=20 > [continued at http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics/oxford.html] >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org >=20 > www.geocities.com/joncpoetics > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > ____________________________________________________________________ > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 18:40:57 -0500 From: noah eli gordon Subject: ONE LESS MAG, call for submissions >ONE LESS Art on the Range > > >Call for Submissions: > > > >Fellow Writers, Artists, Photographers, Musicians, Collectors, Painters, >Mixed Media Artists, Graphic Artists, and Authors of Performance Texts. > > > >We welcome your work for the Inaugural issue of One Less: Art on the Range. > One Less… is the co-creation of former Naropa University MFA grads, David >Gardner and Nikki Widner. The first issue will deal with the topic of >“Home.” Open your dictionaries and respond. We are interested in pieces >that challenge the definition of home, by engaging environments or >communities in which we live and work, or by addressing the idea of >dwelling, nation, borders, freedom, and the implications of displacement as >a resulting factor. Places where we find ourselves on edges, given a >dictionary reading of “Home” (reports from outside the United States are >also welcome). In other words, this issue will investigate work that >responds to the broader definition of “Home.” > > > >Please send either: > > > >3-5 Pages of Poetry; > >5-10 Pages of Prose; > >2-5 Pages of Artwork (Please be aware that we can only print visual images >in black and white.) > > > >to: > > > >One Less > >(c/o Nikki Widner) > >41 Lilly Street > >Florence, MA 01062 > > > >Deadline: February 15, 2005. > > > >If you have any questions, send them to: > > thecelluloidfiles@yahoo.com or unsung1_98@yahoo.com > > > > > >Enclose a self-addressed stamped envelope if you would like your work >returned. Do not send us originals. > > > >We read work in March and then reply in early April at the latest. > > > >This issue will be partially funded by a grant from the Massachusetts >Cultural Council, Northampton Arts Council, LLC. > ------------------------------ End of POETICS Digest - 7 Jan 2005 to 8 Jan 2005 (#2005-9) ********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 13:58:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: Re: Thanks To Boog, It's Working MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank YOU, Jesse, for making the long trek to deliver your words. It was a great reading, and it was great to meet you and the others that came out for it. For anyone that missed it, I reviewed it in my sort of way at: http://www.sleepingfish.net/5cense/AztecGlassCage.htm and also reviewed the Cage/Quasha exhibit (with a few pics) that was a few blocks away. Derek White www.calamaripress.com www.sleepingfish.net www.5cense.com >>> ------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 01:01:12 +0900 From: Jesse Glass Subject: Thanks To Boog, It's Working And it worked and was fine. Many thanks to Dave K. and everyone who showed up on the 6th to see us and sample our goods. Am hard-pressed to say more because the old pilot light is fading fast, but thanks, thanks, and thanks again for the many kindnesses! You have made a record in my heart! Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 14:54:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Van Shell Subject: Re: NYS greenway commission appointment Comments: cc: Niagaraheritage@aol.com, stopat2@lycos.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Poetics Members: I am writing to respectfully request that each of you email NYS Assemblyman, Sam Hoyt, samhoyt@samhoyt.com asking him to reconsider his selection for the Greenway Commission, former Ciminelli Construction CEO, and President, John Girodino. Giordino's appointment would promote gross, invasive, commercial development of the proposed lake-to-lake Greenway with little or no consideration for our natural heritage. Mr. Giordino's commercial track record supports this. There is a large consortium of environmental groups that has chosen the Friends of the Buffalo Niagara Rivers as our lead in this matter. Please consider adding your voice to theirs in suggesting to Mr. Hoyt a far better choice: Friends of the Buffalo Niagara Rivers representative, Barry Boyer, a far more experienced, better appointee. The lake-to-lake Greenway, the scenic preservation of Niagara Falls, the gorge, and the rim need to be protected not only for its unique beauty, but its globally significant bird migration route, its unique and diverse native plant life, its old growth forests, and for its Native American and African American cultural heritage. We need to have a true Greenway created and a fairly balanced Greenway Commission. We only have a small window of opportunity. Please support our environment and email Sam Hoyt, today. Thank you. Michelle Vanstrom, Conservation Chair Youngstown Garden Club, member of National Council of State Garden Clubs, Inc. Central Atlantic Region Federated Garden Clubs of NYS, Inc. District VIII Member and Community Relations Liaison, Niagara Heritage Partnership www.niagaraheritage.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 19:31:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed home ma mere, 1947 http://www.asondheim.org/1947.mov yes yes yes she was quite a gal in her time ma mere ere ma mare arare arm in these dark times it is well to remember our love of our family and everyone about us hello hello we may never have this time again hello hello hello _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:53:00 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 In-Reply-To: <008001c4f51b$d79e1480$1b7e37d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Googlism is a site that collects info from the web on searchable topics. I typed language poetry into the textbox and got this following Walt Whitman-like list poem. Cheers komninos http://www.googlism.com/index.htm?ism=3Dlanguage+poetry&type=3D2 Googlism for: language poetry language poetry is constructed as a niche market language poetry is seen as political act in the deepest sense language poetry is futile without publicity language poetry is q language poetry is about going beyond the boundaries "traditional/conventional" language usage places on notions of meaning language poetry is a movement of convincing authority in contemporary poetics language poetry is concerned language poetry is its meticulous language poetry is one in which there is a number of established poets operating in diverse ways language poetry is held out to be one of the poetic modes of the present moment language poetry is indicated in the only epigraph in the book language poetry is also often seen as elitist because it never dealt adequately with issues of race language poetry is all about the sound of the words together language poetry is a cryptic and highly theoretical literary form = grounded in philosophical discourse language poetry is to meet some actual examples of it language poetry is relatively recent language poetry is academy language poetry is not "literature language poetry is vibrant language poetry is highly structured language poetry is said to be at the intersection of literature and = graphic design language poetry is in its heyday language poetry is highly personal language poetry is his attentiveness to the texts language poetry is wordplay language poetry is iambic pentameter language poetry is language poetry is something of an artistic dead end language poetry is also provided language poetry is a way of expression open to anyone who chooses to use = it language poetry is twenty years language poetry is heir to language poetry is essentially no different from any other formal poetry language poetry is in for one helluva ride language poetry is its sophistication language poetry is written in iambic pentameters language poetry is correlative to no object language poetry is undoubtedly the most self language poetry is shit or that it is the shit =96 and no doubt that = will be educational and maybe even fun sometimes language poetry is diverse language poetry is always the one you can feel more intensively language poetry is tae hae its first owersettin intae chinese language poetry is autobiographical at its fundament language poetry is no harder to "get" than cubism; the other weird thing = is that it's lasted as long as it has without the support of language poetry is in 839 language poetry is normally recited language poetry is influenced by theory language poetry is ordered by production rather than reproduction language poetry is much more philosophically language poetry is here evoked language poetry is often komninos zervos homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 6/01/05 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 19:15:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Psychic Tsunami! Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable A therapist friend - speaking of clients - calls January "the trough." I am afraid this country, this USA is in it deep. I am not sure when disgust wil= l roar into rage and "Bush-As-Normal" is going to be history or what. But the revelations - below in Newsweek - at so-called "Gitmo" & the Pentagon-White House league of Perpetrators are off the hook. This ain't Poetry. Poe's Rat= s are definitely running the Pit. And the Senate is going to confirm Gonzales= ! This is sick, sickening. This sanctioned "internal terrorism", I am afraid, will do nothing but destroy this country. ** Alberto Gonzales will likely be confirmed. But that won't stop the widening scandal over Gitmo detainees By Michael Isikoff Newsweek Jan. 17 issue - Ibraham Al Qosi's stories seemed fairly outlandish when the= y first surfaced last fall. In a lawsuit, Al Qosi, a Sudanese accountant apprehended after 9/11 on suspicions of ties to Al Qaeda, charged that he and other detainees at Guantanamo Bay had been subjected to bizarre forms o= f humiliation and abuse by U.S. military inquisitors. Al Qosi claimed they were strapped to the floor in an interrogations center known as the Hell Room, wrapped in Israeli flags, taunted by female interrogators who rubbed their bodies against them in sexually suggestive ways, and left alone in refrigerated cells for hours with deafening music blaring in their ears. Back then, Pentagon officials dismissed Al Qosi's allegations as the fictional rantings of a hard-core terrorist. But in recent weeks a stack of declassified government documents has given new credence to many of the claims of abuse at Guantanamo. The documents ar= e also raising fresh questions about the Bush administration's handling of detainees at a time when a prime architect of that policy, White House counsel Alberto Gonzales, is facing a Senate confirmation vote as the president's nominee to be attorney general. Many of the documents come from an unexpected source: the FBI. As part of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union, the bureau has released internal e-mails and correspondence recordin= g what their own agents witnessed at Gitmo. Coupled with accounts from other agencies such as the Defense Intelligence Agency=8Balso released as part of the FOIA lawsuit=8Bthe FBI reports amount to a powerful case that many of the scenes alleged by Al Qosi and other Gitmo detainees may actually have happened. (Al Qosi is still in Gitmo, facing charges before a military tribunal.) And the reports suggest that the interrogation scandal is not going away any time soon, even if Gonzales is confirmed, as expected. Many of the FBI accounts came from conscience-stricken agents troubled by what they had witnessed. One agent reported seeing a detainee sitting on th= e floor of an interrogation cell with an Israeli flag draped around him while he was bombarded by loud music and a strobe light=8Balmost exactly what Al Qosi had alleged. Another reported seeing detainees chained hand and foot i= n fetal positions, in barren cells with no chair, food or water. Jan. 6: Alberto Gonzales blamed the abuses at Abu Ghraib on a lack of training and renegade prison guards, not the legal memos he wrote. NBC=B9s Pete Williams reports. In one account that seemed to parallel the sickening scenes from Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq, an FBI agent reported the way in which a female U.S. Army sergeant sexually humiliated a shackled male prisoner during Ramadan and even "grabbed his genitals." Pentagon officials acknowledge that, frustrated by detainees' refusal to talk, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld had approved "aggressive" interrogation techniques to be used at Gitmo. But last week, stunned by the new disclosures, Gen. Bantz Craddock, chief of the U.S. Southern Command=8Bwhich runs Gitmo=8Bordered a full-scale inquiry into the FBI agents' allegations, which appear to go far beyond anything authorized. Craddock wants to know why allegations from seemingly credible government agents had not come to the U.S. military's attention sooner. After hearing of the FBI memos, NEWSWEEK has learned, Sens. Dianne Feinstei= n and Patrick Leahy fired off angry letters to FBI Director Robert Mueller demanding to know why he failed to disclose his own agents' complaints when they questioned him about Gitmo in a hearing last May. Feinstein last week called Mueller's evasive answers at the time "gobbledygook." When her comment was reported on NEWSWEEK's Web site, Mueller called Feinstein to express regret that he hadn't kept her better informed. As the inquiries continue, he may not be the only U.S. government official who has further explaining to do. =A9 2005 Newsweek, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 22:09:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Readings @ The Contemporary: Julie Dill / Robyn Schiff / Nick Twemlow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thursday, January 13 @ 7:00 PM READINGS @ THE CONTEMPORARY presents Chicago poets Nicholas Twemlow (National Poetry Series finalist) and Robyn Schiff (FENCE Notable, 2002) as well as local rising star Julie Dill in a live poetry reading. Come a little early and tour the museum's galleries free of charge. http://belz.net/readings/dill_twemlow_schiff.htm Contemporary Art Museum 3750 Washington Blvd (corner of Spring) Saint Louis, Missouri 63108 Series Calendar: http://belz.net/readings/ For more information: aaron@belz.net Series sponsored by Schlafly Beer, LILUMA, and Left Bank Books ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 23:40:40 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan, from my home to yours - hello. Thank you for sharing your unique poetry. Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:10:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 1947 continued MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed 1947 continued http://www.asondheim.org/figurestudy.mov she was all a woman and more she knew how to flaunt it and knew how to haunt it it came and went she posed for cheap photographers if there was an internet she would have made a million she lived for 8mm and she lived well god bless the nation that bore her _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 03:26:05 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit punt pass kick black skies white noise 3:00...drk..drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:39:29 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Ice Findings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 number 5 =20 ice findings: and there was a mystery into ice findings as we edged we edged and the huge thing. it=20 was there. that we knew. why. only in golden tumbles full of many whitenesses. and it was then. it found it. you reached past me: we clasped forever. all was beginning. the everlasting seed. as if. ice night. sweet to never. never let. just bathe, and all tumble on is the gold=20 on black: all plush the sharp sign. it blazed out of the black like an irridescent plum. it had what it took. it took what it had. it was luscious. and the sounds. they were deluscious. the sounds had soft found the ice light: the illumined room was brain-sized. and hands. hands were quick, soft, dextrous yet always were finding. no one can know. no one is allowed in. but if=20 you are out, you are in: and we turn the key as big as the door. the key. the ice brass key. it is clever this trap. ecstatic sap. big to blue to head. ice findings. we will. and you and you. be. =20 Richard Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:24:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: Re: reading Comments: To: Acousticlv@aol.com, AdeenaKarasick@cs.com, AGosfield@aol.com, Akpoem2@aol.com, alonech@acedsl.com, Altjazz@aol.com, amirib@aol.com, Amramdavid@aol.com, AnselmBerrigan@aol.com, Barrywal23@aol.com, bdlilrbt@icqmail.com, CarolynMcClairPR@aol.com, CaseyCyr@aol.com, CHASEMANHATTAN1@aol.com, DEEPOP@aol.com, DianeSpodarek@aol.com, Djmomo17@aol.com, Dsegnini1216@aol.com, ekayani@mindspring.com, flint@artphobia.com, ftgreene@juno.com, Gfjacq@aol.com, hillary@filmforum.org, Hooker99@aol.com, jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com, Jeromesala@aol.com, JillSR@aol.com, JoeLobell@cs.com, JohnLHagen@aol.com, kather8@katherinearnoldi.com, Kevtwi@aol.com, LakiVaz@aol.com, Lisevachon@aol.com, nooyawk@att.net, Nuyopoman@AOL.COM, Pedevski@aol.com, pom2@pompompress.com, Rabinart@aol.com, Rcmorgan12@aol.com, reggiedw@comcast.net, RichKostelanetz@aol.com, RnRBDN@aol.com, SHoltje@aol.com, Smutmonke@aol.com, sprygypsy@yahoo.com, Sumnirv@aol.com, velasquez@nyc.com, VITORICCI@aol.com, zeblw@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joshua Beckman Steven Dalachinsky reading Wednesday, January 26, 2005 at 8 pm The Poetry Project St. Mark's Church 131 East 10th St. ( at 2nd Ave.) Manhattan for info call the project or call 1212-925-5256 poets will be reading new and recent works yuko otomo has 2 pieces in a show at 128 rivington st up until feb 5 yuko and steve at tribes jan 29 aftrer 5 pm call for info ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 03:38:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: deluge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit post-diluvian relax real light surrounds your eyes this is one way of ha(l)ving things this is another there is more than one way to skin a cloud pay a check extinguish a fire so the man with little to say distinguished himself again by saying too much stuck between tinsel & crumble more than one way to extinguish a life tie up the laces it's not as if hands were unique microphones tilted - transforming grass into hardware into liguid tilt sign tilt sign i stood somewhere beneath the tilt sign & then i cracked stood for a moment below my waist & could feel the plates shifting bone dead & yet the flesh so much alive rotted in spots dodging again yet another wild pitch earth laboring final beams falling against discounted space ruthless & wreckless balance here yet unaware / or uncaring as your G/d might be i think i'm dying of cancer she says i just have a bad cold how does the death of 1000's stack up against my problems? earth laboring coughs convulsively nose runs one instant stuffed up the next back & ribs cracking my plates seem to be shifting i am weighted in soft blue tissues there is a rumbling in the street i saw 3 cats as i precariously scuttled from one event to the next the horizon never changing nor the weather only my temperature going from cold to hot luckily they were all black & white it is not about more bodies or less but about a contracting of space an expanding like a yawn a fart a belch not about something in the present but something from the past that has changed the future i spin within this axis this is not a postcard the sun re-emerging after a storm shadows on a once cluttered landscape the sea itself again the larger part is always hidden beneath the surface these are many different things that are happening even birds have deep memories a germ of a melody ruffled i carried 15 notebooks on my shoulders today what was left of 38 yrs of writing (i lost a few yrs when the ground began to shift) then i put them down as i walked calmly back to my room i encountered 3 simple but significant questions 1. does anyone know which direction south is? 2. do you know where the closest chinese take out is? 3. which way is Ave. A? i answered then all. steve dalachinsky nyc 1/09-10/05 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 06:17:18 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: my interview with crag hill MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit is up at http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 00:47:15 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Fw: FROM VICTOR - Michael Moore, Maxine Waters,and Voices in Congress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Victor, my son - sent this to me - he gets a newsletter from Michael = Moore - =20 Victor this seems good - a small advance on - remember in Fahrenheit = 9/11 when people coudn't speak about the voting situation in Florida etc = as no one from the Senate would vouch for them? - dont understand US = politcal system very well but this seems a small advance -some hope = perhaps.=20 Michael Moore "twists " things but that is the reality of life - the = government agencies and newspapers twist things or leave things out - I = think - given Moore's "twists" - he s still bring a lot of reality to = people around the world - the twists for and against kind of cancel out = - there is no aboslute truth - in politics ! But Moore is doing = something - and some democrast seem to be doing something also.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Victor Taylor=20 To: richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz=20 Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 3:59 PM Subject: FROM VICTOR=20 To Richard from Victor. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michael Moore=20 To: victort@woosh.co.nz=20 Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 8:42 PM Subject: In the Clearing Stands a Boxer... a letter from Michael Moore January 7, 2005 Dear Friends, Something historic happened yesterday. For the first time since 1877 a = member of the House and a member of the Senate stood up together to = object to the outcome of a presidential election. This is the first step on a necessary road toward making sure that = everyone is allowed to vote and that every vote is counted (something we = did not see in 2000 or 2004) so the next time around ALL of us can be = confident, when the election results come in, that they reflect the will = of the people, not the whim of mechanical error and human obstruction. =20 Unlike 2000, when the black members of Congress were told to sit down = and shut up, this time a senator had the courage to stand with them, as = the law requires, to force Congress to go back to their separate = chambers to discuss and debate the issues surrounding the vote count. = Senator Barbara Boxer rose to the occasion and stood with Ohio = Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones and 29 other Representatives "to = cast the light of truth on a flawed system which must be fixed now." The = ensuing debate, at times, became a debate over me and all of you and the = fact that we would dare make the attempt to protect our democracy. I was blown away when Representative Maxine Waters took to the floor and = said, "Mr. Speaker and members, I dedicate my objection to Ohio's = electoral votes to Mr. Michael Moore, the producer of the documentary = '9/11' and I thank him for educating the world on the threats to our = democracy and the proceedings of this house on the acceptance of the = electoral college votes for the 2000 presidential election." I am honored to the point of embarrassment because it is Maxine Waters = who deserves thanks for defending our most basic right, not once, but = twice. Coming out of the gates like this in the very first week of session sent = a strong message that we are not going to be pushed around. If the = Republicans think the next four years are going to be a cakewalk, = they've got another thing coming. With Michigan Representative John = Conyers leading the charge, we showed them something not seen in over = 120 years. And we're just getting started! Congratulations to the tens of thousands of you who called, faxed, and = e-mailed Barbara Boxer and other senators. You have shown the world, = with the strength of your convictions, that the movement toward a truly = representative democracy will not be stopped in its tracks. Yesterday's = actions will be marked by history books as a turning point for the = electoral process and for a Democratic Party that has for too long sat = back and taken it on the chin. Your voices have echoed all the way up to the hallowed halls of Congress = and for that, you deserve thanks more than anyone. Yours, Michael Moore MMFlint@aol.com www.michaelmoore.com P.S. If you want to see portions of what took place, check out the video = clips and transcripts on the website. You have received this email because you are subscribed to Michael = Moore's email list at www.michaelmoore.com. To prevent mailbox filters from deleting mailings from Michael Moore, = add mailinglist@michaelmoore.com to your address book. To remove yourself from this mailing, please click here =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:38:15 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Henry Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Henry Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <2365821273454558983@unknownmsgid> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:31:33 -0500, Mairead Byrne wrote: > I also have noticed an aggression, and possibly even a degree of sexism, > in the responses to Joan Houlihan's article (which I have > read but in which I have no further interest). Perhaps I wrongly > associate the pejorative word "shrill" with a negative attitude to > a woman speaking in public, especially as, in this case, it was also > applied--or implied--to our President. What, men can't be shrill? Since when? I was using the term to connect her mode to dominant political rhetorics, most but not all of which are perpetrated by angry and defensive male politicians, far as I can tell. Ms. Houlihan's comparably paranoid, aesthetically reactionary narrow-mindedness as a book reviewer has nothing to do with her gender. I have certainly heard similar spiteful nonsense about avant/experimental/langpo writings and writers uttered by teachers/professors, and poet acquaintances, over the years -- without correlation to any individual's gender, ethnicity, or social class. You haven't lived until you've had a tenured male middle-aged professor agitatedly mock John Ashbery's lisp during office hours and assert that what Ashbery writes does not actually qualify as poetry. Now *that's* desperate and shrill for ya. -- Ron Henry ronhenry@clarityconnect.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:46:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review Comments: To: ron.henry@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I hear you, Ron. As you can see I had reservations about my reservations. Mairead >>> Ron Henry 01/10/05 8:38 AM >>> On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:31:33 -0500, Mairead Byrne wrote: > I also have noticed an aggression, and possibly even a degree of sexism, > in the responses to Joan Houlihan's article (which I have > read but in which I have no further interest). Perhaps I wrongly > associate the pejorative word "shrill" with a negative attitude to > a woman speaking in public, especially as, in this case, it was also > applied--or implied--to our President. What, men can't be shrill? Since when? I was using the term to connect her mode to dominant political rhetorics, most but not all of which are perpetrated by angry and defensive male politicians, far as I can tell. Ms. Houlihan's comparably paranoid, aesthetically reactionary narrow-mindedness as a book reviewer has nothing to do with her gender. I have certainly heard similar spiteful nonsense about avant/experimental/langpo writings and writers uttered by teachers/professors, and poet acquaintances, over the years -- without correlation to any individual's gender, ethnicity, or social class. You haven't lived until you've had a tenured male middle-aged professor agitatedly mock John Ashbery's lisp during office hours and assert that what Ashbery writes does not actually qualify as poetry. Now *that's* desperate and shrill for ya. -- Ron Henry ronhenry@clarityconnect.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 07:08:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Kazim Ali Subject: Short Notice for NYC reading In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Folks, I am reading tonight with Fanny Howe and Katherine Dimma in the Readings Between A and B series. The readings have been moved to 7:30pm but otherwise the information (venue, etc) is at their website www.readab.com. Hope to see some-- Kazim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 07:08:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Kazim Ali Subject: Short Notice for NYC reading In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Folks, I am reading tonight with Fanny Howe and Katherine Dimma in the Readings Between A and B series. The readings have been moved to 7:30pm but otherwise the information (venue, etc) is at their website www.readab.com. Hope to see some-- Kazim __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:40:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Landers, Susan" Subject: Pom2 Issue 5 Now Available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all -- quick announcement to let you know that Pom2, issue 5 is now available, and includes work from: =20 Charles Bernstein | Joel Bettridge | Daniel Borzutzky | Michael C. Boyko | Sherry Brennan | Jenna Cardinale | Brian Clements | Albert Flynn DeSilver | Chris Ebbe | Monica Fauble | Bill Friend | David Harrison Horton | Mark Kanak | Stephen Kirbach | Drew Kunz | Erika Mikkalo | Susan Mills | Laura Mullen | Christian Peet | Rodney Philips | Kristin Prevallet | Karen Randall | Kaia Sand | Matthew Sargent | Elizabeth Treadwell | Robin Tremblay-McGaw | Sara Veglahn | Gautam Verma | Anne Waldman | Mark Wallace Copies are available for $5 apiece. Subscriptions are 2 issues for $9. Please make checks payable to Allison Cobb and send to the address below. Allison Cobb, Pom2 720 5th Ave 2L Brooklyn, NY 11215 For more info about Pom2, visit www.pompompress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:37:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Creeley-Jarnot Profiles for February on Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert Creeley and Lisa Jarnot are our featured profiles for February on Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com I want to thank both of them for doing the profiles we are honored to have them. The profiles will be posted January 14th as I am out of the country for the last two weeks of January they will be up earlier. The February and March calendars for Chicago/Milwaukee have been updated but if we are missing events please send them by the 13th and I will update before I leave. Will be thinking of you all in Brazil Regards Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:02:16 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Fw: New interview/new year Comments: To: poneme@lists.grouse.net.au, Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For anyone tired of life, mentally defunct, fed up with poets and poetry, I can recommend the interview detailed below for the purpose of confirming psychological jaundice and cultural despair. This is a remarkable lapse in the otherwise excellent taste shown by the Editor of Here Comes Everybody and I am happy to say it has already been rapidly followed by a return to form with an interview with a poet of interest so it is hoped that not too many will notice this slip, which was no doubt precipitated by the aftermath of seasonal festivities. Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lance Phillips" To: Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 11:37 PM Subject: New interview/new year Hello all, There's a new interview up at Here Comes Everybody (http://herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com). It's David Bircumshaw. I hope you all will have a look and a really happy new year. Take care, Lance ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( Lance Phillips lerphillips@earthlink.net http://lancephillips.blogspot.com [web log] Writers on writing at http://herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com Corpus Socius (Ahsahta Press) ISBN 0-916272-71-0 http://ahsahtapress.boisestate.edu ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:17:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: crag hill MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Crag -- backchannel me with your current address -- I finally made that recording I promised you six monts ago. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:30:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: aaron tieger Subject: CARVE 4 now available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii CARVE 4 is now available! Featuring excellent poems by Mairead Byrne Aaron Kunin John Mulrooney Gina Myers Anthony Robinson Jane Sprague and an interview with Daniel Bouchard (THE POKER) by Michael Carr, as well as another beautiful cover by Emily Belz. CARVE 4 is available for $5. Via check: 221 W. Lincoln #2 Ithaca, NY 14850 Via Paypal: fishblog.blogspot.com Subscriptions: $20/4 issues. Back issues still available: CARVE 1: Gregory Ford, William Corbett, Joseph Torra, Dorothea Lasky, J. Kates, Sara Veglahn, Eric Baus/Noah Eli Gordon/Nick Moudry/Travis Nichols, Michael Carr, Aaron Belz, Beth Woodcome, Mark Lamoureux, Brenda Iijima, Anna Moschovakis, Aaron Tieger, Christina Strong, and Kent Johnson.Cover by Brenda Iijima. (LIMITED QUANTITIES) CARVE 2: kari edwards, John Bradley, Matvei Yankelevich, W. B. Keckler, Andrew Felsinger, Ed Barrett, Alan DeNiro, Joel Sloman, Gregory Ford, Ron Starr, Jim Dunn, Mike County, Amanda Cook. Cover by Eric McDade. CARVE 3: Sean Cole, Lori Lubeski, Catherine Meng, Jess Mynes, Shin Yu Pai, Christopher Rizzo. Cover by Emily Belz. Thank you! Aaron Tieger CARVE ===== "Make a sudden, destructive unpredictable action; incorporate." (Brian Eno) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:10:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: http://www.asondheim.org/straddle.mov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed http://www.asondheim.org/straddle.mov explicit sexuality you've never seen anything like it it isn't there http://www.asondheim.org/straddle.mov i told you it isn't there it's too revealing don't even think of it http://www.asondheim.org/straddle.mov it's the most amazing thing explicit and absolute some of us ah well i've already said too much you'd feel you could take us anywhere at all http://www.asondheim.org/straddle.mov the degree of arousal is amazing you'd know us inside out http://www.asondheim.org/straddle.mov nothing at all there's nothing there at all i told you nothing's there don't ask again http://www.asondheim.org/straddle.mov _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:31:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Trujillo Lusk, McCarthy, Robertson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all I am trying to contact Dorothy Trujillo Lusk, Pattie McCarthy & Lisa Robertson. If you know how please backchannel me. Thanks much, Elizabeth Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:47:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: For Fear, Settle for Wolves / Wolves Slip't Away, Settle for Dryads' Graces Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed THE KING IN YELLOW is your doing, Herr Bibliothekarius? bleakest reading, blackest life fire there is curiously soft here is mention anew of Virginia a sunny subject is Virginia — a ramble of a catastrophe, me the snarled: "the bareness destroyed, Virginia who shapes anew what shepherds rescue" me, to whom oldest breath is freshest bread — in the bleakest reading, blackest pastoralscape there's a V where the space, & me, should be living in mysteries were Dryads, chasing familiarity am I still, still I foolishly stroke old branches that, glistening, are to become your manuscripts, Herr Bibliothekarius! fineness a-sink, brain feeling is sweeted, lost, started anew, & ever for birds behind skies your manuscripts contain sandy & mossy plays moss spell'd to sun-black-charmed Egypt what's un-numbered dropped from counted hands (four hundred & sixty-two) the final hand, unwritten by Herr Bibliothekarius nor mentioned under smeared-inky tongues, is the glove throning Virginia, my world-historical sock-puppet echoing, we'll be disease together, orally I can mirror simple dryads destroyed in the lumber mills, me the snarled: "do you love that body appointment? fire there is curiously soft, cool to the touch its graven mention of blistered hands... THE TAIL-ECHO OF VIRGINIA'S SPEECH: to Herr Bibliothekarius, the hangman of one copyright, the sun's sanity seems the seas the luminous part of Herr B's dream is the lacuna, filthy flashes 'well-barked, splendid, so splendid, you've dignified mud!' quoth my dryads, to whom sandy & mossy plays aren't very sepulchral, until filthy flashes knotted with mud, prowl their skies, they creep down stone steps to find Bibliothekarius doing the King In Yellow, piercing dryad lamentations, but the loudest voice here is his own death-distress four hundred & sixty-three, -four, -five, -six, -seven, all possible readings of future numbers having promised the KING IN YELLOW's scenes will meet w/ fire indistinguishable from fire when in fire his own death has eyes on our thoughts the next time, his poems come down in sheets our own words in strips of his GRAVE dialect — 'my prompt mouth cut with vines, my hands, rabidly fiery, unbound still' uncurtained scent under white stone steps, further under this blanche is the black mud — without lutes the dryads, & Herr Bibliothekarius knocking them aside, parched all, run their lips to the marsh under that black mud it's all pearl" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:51:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Creeley-Jarnot Profiles for February on Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com Comments: To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9gis_Bonvicino?= In-Reply-To: <001001c4f760$1e6b8320$ae00a8c0@REGIS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am very much looking forward to seeing you R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Régis Bonvicino [mailto:regis@uol.com.br] > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 4:03 PM > To: Haas Bianchi; UB Poetics discussion group > Subject: Re: Creeley-Jarnot Profiles for February on > Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com > > > Ray, estou aqui aguardando o seu telefonema, par nos > encontrarmos. Abraços. > Régis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Haas Bianchi" > To: "UB Poetics discussion group" > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 1:37 PM > Subject: Creeley-Jarnot Profiles for February on > Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com > > > > Robert Creeley and Lisa Jarnot are our featured profiles for February on > > Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com I want to thank both > > of them for doing the profiles we are honored to have them. The profiles > > will be posted January 14th as I am out of the country for the last two > > weeks of January they will be up earlier. > > > > The February and March calendars for Chicago/Milwaukee have > been updated > > but > > if we are missing events please send them by the 13th and I will update > > before I leave. > > > > Will be thinking of you all in Brazil > > > > Regards > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:09:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: Trujillo Lusk, McCarthy, Robertson In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 1/10/05 4:31 PM, Small Press Traffic at smallpress@CCA.EDU wrote: > Hello all I am trying to contact Dorothy Trujillo Lusk, Pattie McCarthy & Lisa > Robertson. If you know how please backchannel me. Thanks much, Elizabeth > > > Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director > Small Press Traffic > Literary Arts Center at CCA > 1111 -- 8th Street > San Francisco, CA 94107 > 415.551.9278 > http://www.sptraffic.org > > here's one for you elizabeth: pattiemccarthy@verizon.net best, david ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:40:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City Needs Your Irish Poetry and Prose Suggestions Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi all, On Thurs. March 17, 7-10 p.m., at Galapagos in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NYC we're throwing a St. Patrick's Day party. I'm going to have some traditional Irish standards like Danny Boy and When Irish Eyes Are Smiling sung and Sinead O'Connor's album I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got played live in its entirety, track-by-track (15 yrs after its release). I'd like to have some Irish poetry and prose read and was wondering if anyone would have suggestions as to texts. You can backchannel ideas to editor@boogcity.com THANKS! as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:06:05 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: USAID Director Keeps an Eye on Long-Term Oppression/Subversion Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press North American Gluttons Murder 200,000 More Little Brown People With New Tsunami Weapon. Weapon Works On Any Octane: Like Hiroshima, America's Vast Weapons Superiority Again On Display: Killer Tsunami's 'Global Warming' Link Branded 'Rubbish' By Comfort Boys For Petrol, Coal Burning Industries: Senator Inhofe Again Blasts "Environmental Fearmongers" For Linking Tsunami To Global Warming, Blames Gays: Two Step Connection Between Tsunami And Water Volume Stumps World's Scientists, Media: Bubble Of Super-Heated Air From Capital's Flunkies, Liars And Stooges Melting The Polar Ice Cap: By MARCEDLY MORONO Jesus Asks: "Is USAID The Biggest 'Charity Scam' In History?!" USAID Director Keeps an Eye on Long-Term Oppression/Subversion: Money Laundered Through USAID Used To Foment Coups, Teach Torture, Assassinate Leaders, Buy Elections, Destroy Economies, Murder Dissidents, Arm Sociopaths, Prop-Up Dictators, Kidnap Patriots: Most Tsunami Disaster Aid To Relieve CIA Cash Shortfall: Rise In Sea-Level From Global Climate Change Magnifies Tsunami's Effect: By Robbem Right They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 17:54:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: FW: FOR SALE: Wessex Bookstore In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20050107090851.02b436f0@hobnzngr.pobox.stanford.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" yeah i used to work there it's fantabulous. At 9:09 AM -0800 1/7/05, Hilton Obenzinger wrote: >This is truly a great bookstore, and I hope someone who has the money and >the time and the disposition can keep it running. I find treasures in it >all the time. > >Hilton > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. >Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs >Lecturer, Department of English >Stanford University >414 Sweet Hall >650.723.0330 >650.724.5400 Fax >obenzinger@stanford.edu -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:55:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: Re: without a doubt the SEXIEST poem of 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Charles Bernstein's "The Ballad of the Girlie Man," CA Conrad's vociferous nominee for sexiest poem of 2004, was described in a comment on Silliman's blog as adhering to the standard formula for slam poems. I wasn't surprised to read this comment, having felt for a while that many of Bernstein's poems share commonalities of style or tone with some slam poetry, particularly to that of the highly successdul smal poetTaylor Mali. The two's poems both read fairly easily, play liberally with metonymy, and find humor and insight in social issues. Here's a link to Mali's "How To Write A Political Poem": http://www.taylormali.com/index.cfm?webid=16 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 00:04:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 1934 1947 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed 1934 1947 someone hated the films spliced them together http://www.asondheim.org/splice.mp4 someone with someone's mom or dad i can't tell who who would do these things whatever's going on it's miserable and exciting at the same time http://www.asondheim.org/splice.mp4 were these things common then one hears about the 'trade' people would be taken to strange places and people would have cameras women and children disappeared so did adults for other reasons or adults for the same reasons on the other side of things http://www.asondheim.org/splice.mp4 i'm afraid of thinking about such things did such things happen is anything happening maybe my mind is tricking me the couple is in a play or a theater or a brothel in new orleans i'm not sure it looks like new orleans something from new orleans http://www.asondheim.org/splice.mp4 the splice is poorly made perhaps a way of saving things things happen that's all these things happened years ago i'm afraid i'm afraid i'm afraid _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 23:06:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: AWP In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey anyone going to AWP? my attendance will depend on how many of you cool cats will be there R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 00:19:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: GREGG BIGLIERI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII More than one person has commented on Biglieri's extraordinary use of puns--they don't have show off quality, instead they bring his lines to a focus. I've heard him read, and he engages your attention right away. If you're in the Buffalo area, he'll be at the Albright Knox Art Gallery January 28, on the 5-8 program presented by Just Buffalo. That's one of the Friday night openings, when the gallery is open free, and stays open until ten for visiting and various celebrations. Bill Sylvester ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 00:44:35 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit less of mind a 12:00...& counting...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 00:46:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: BARBARA COLE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In some ways Barbara Cole reminds me of hearing Anne Waldman. Barbara has a different voice but she's a fast talking woman with Anne's sense of plenitude. And she has it in her prose too. You can get her take on Bruce Andrews through Google. Or if you're in the Buffalo area on January 28 6 to 8 pm, come to the Albright Knox. The museum's open until 10 and you'll have a good time with interested people. Bill Sylvester ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 05:58:22 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: The Analogous Series, spring 2005 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I would like to announce the spring 2005 schedule for the Analogous series. This reading/event series, based in Cambridge Massachusetts, aims to exacerbate a productive confusion between different media, especially through the process of collaboration. It combines the paradigm of interchange between poetry and painting with contemporary theories such as intermedia and new media to encourage the process of learning from other arts, and other artists, by means of analogy. --Tim Peterson SPRING 2005 CALENDAR: http://www.analogous.net/spring2005.html Friday, January 14, 5 PM Lori Lubeski and Jeanette Landrie poetry and photography collaboration 77 Massachusetts Ave, room 3-270 Friday, February 11, 7:30 PM Reese Inman and John Mercuri Dooley algorithmic painting, procedural writing 77 Massachusetts Ave, room 2-105 Sunday, March 20, 6 PM Lyn Hejinian and Emilie Clark text/image collaboration 45 Carleton St., room E25-111 date TBA Joan Jonas film of H.D.'s Helen in Egypt location TBA Thursday, March 24, 7 PM Mark Weiss, Forrest Gander, and Kent Johnson translation as collaboration 45 Carleton St., room E25-111 Saturday, April 2, 5 PM William Corbett on James Schuyler's Letters 77 Massachusetts Ave, room 2-105 Saturday, April 16, 5 PM Maria Damon and Alan Sondheim new media poetry collaboration 77 Massachusetts Ave, room 2-105 Saturday, April 23, 5 PM Thomas Fink and Noah Eli Gordon paintings by a poet, music & poetry 77 Massachusetts Ave, room 2-105 Saturday, May 14, 7:30 PM Andrew Witkin "Life, Stagolee, and the Pursuit of Spiral Jetty" (a talk) 77 Massachusetts Ave, room 2-105 Saturday, May 21, 5 PM Ruth Lepson, Rusty Crump, and Joel Sloman poetry/pinhole photography collaboration "Ida's Foodie Leas" (a talk on music & poetry) 77 Massachusetts Ave, room 2-105 Saturday, May 28, 5 PM Nick Piombino, Allison Cobb, and Jen Coleman a collage novel, a multimedia performance 77 Massachusetts Ave, room 2-105 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 06:33:37 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: The Analogous Series: Lori Lubeski and Jeanette Landrie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The Analogous Series presents: Lori Lubeski and Jeanette Landrie http://www.analogous.net/lubeskilandrie.html * * * Friday, January 14, 7:30 PM 77 Massachusetts Ave, room 3-270 Cambridge, MA Lori and Jeanette will present their new poetry/photography collaboration, _has the river of the body risen_. * * * Lori Lubeski is the author of Dissuasion Crowds The Slow Worker, obedient, a body, and Sweet Land, a collaboration with bay area printmaker Jakub Kalousek. Her poems have appeared in Talisman, Chain, Five Fingers Review, and Lift, and are forthcoming in Traverse magazine. She just completed a collaborative project with artist Jeannette Landrie. She teaches at Boston University and Curry College. Jeanette Landrie has a background in the visual arts with an A.S. in Graphic Arts and a B.A. in Cinema and Photography. She received her M.Ed. (concentrating in Postsecondary Special Education) from Curry College, and works as a Learning Ability Specialist in the Program for Advancement of Learning (PAL) at Curry College. She is particularly interested in fostering creative and critical thinking skills in her students, as they become more independent learners. Jeanette has an intuitive understanding of those who learn differently, and focuses on building her student's metacognition through verbal and visual expression. * * * The Analogous Series is curated by Tim Peterson Spring schedule available at: http://www.analogous.net/spring2005.html * * * DIRECTIONS: 77 Massachusetts Ave is the entrance to MIT in Cambridge, MA. Go straight down the hallway until you reach building 3, then turn right and look for room 3-270. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 01:59:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Cross Subject: Atticus/Finch #4: Eli Drabman's _the ground running_ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit * * * Perhaps once in a lifetime a book of poetry comes along, so good, it makes you nearly pee your pants. That book, friends, is the fourth volume in the Atticus/Finch juggernaut, Eli Drabman’s _the ground running_. Perhaps you’ve never heard of Drabman? Let Robert Grenier convince you: HITS?) the ground running—elsewise, shortly, back-up-into- Air (?) flying—in these extravagant/rigorously disciplined statement-song-poems which air & exercise Eli Drabman’s excellent lyrical imagination w/in strenuous/sinuous ‘bounds’—i.e. What is said Bounds! (well, the 24’s are bounded by the right side of each page/GO!-from-top-to- bottom!)—w/ clear sad/ascorbic-Vitamin C-athletic feeling/knowing no nearer yet alive to hung fingers tapping (a wet arc of brass) I’ve blown it so, to give these ghosts a home. —A first book of ‘real note’ (not unakin to Ashbery’s Some Trees), promising intellectual ‘inhabitation’/life within many forms (& MORE imaginative rhythmic formal energy/’truth-telling’/Even More Invention of & Testimony to the Life of the Things Which Are), since he’s ‘A MUSICIAN’—Sings/thinks/says each-through ! ! He Goes ! Robert Grenier Bolinas Halloween 2004 Yes, folks, it’s all here. The train wrecks, the perfectly manicured right margin, the sheer joy of handling a book 8 ½ X 11 in measurement. Still not convinced? Try this on for size: [Experience will be shapely] enough to fill the time, ashen sloughs thick against the old cravings, leak outs begetting as if the end of those sparks be the presence of a fire-who, a fire-what, a fire when cover is blown, the wires all melted across the synthetic lawning- belt, its green and unforgiving energies expiring, TILT, your rubber-plants regret their old utility, and tea-flowers take a step toward further rancidity, it is glorious, they say, slow whispering in the roots, this growth inside a shell before the time finds itself again at odds, staring, without gaze enough for every shimmer, every rich and blooming thing, greening, starving for a plump, red shape to rest one’s arm upon. And this: [The music gets faster as] mechanical horses crash on through the sphere I had been saving for my second childhood night- mare (I would then own not the air, but the texts in which air is described as not sharp or pointed, not smelling of Cornelia unless having passed as wind through the mouth or hair of Cornelia, given as she is, to frequent fits of vigorous outdoor exer- cise) when I might wake to find myself pinned by the sharpness all around, the many angles closing down around my elbows and neck, and prey for a steed with silver-flashing blinders, with gears hung to protect one innocence. And yes, folks, there’s a bookmark. A big one! Send on six bucks and _the ground running_ is yours. Or else, send on ten and pick up a copy of Elizabeth Willis’ _Meteoric Flowers_ or Tanya Brolaski’s _The Daily Usonian_ as well (both available in short supply!). To order, please send well-concealed cash/check and a nice note to: Michael Cross Atticus/Finch Chapbooks SUNY Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo NY 14260-4610 Atticus/Finch is committed to publishing important new work in elegant, affordable editions. Don’t sleep. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:37:03 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Silliman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: <-5481313537694458454@unknownmsgid> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Why the ballad? A note from Rachel Blau DuPlessis On not reading Guy Davenport The Sexiest Poem of 2004 (Will the real=20 Charles Bernstein please stand up) 3 Milwaukee innovators Morgan Gibson, Karl Young, Karl Gartung (GAM looks to its community's roots) Before Sunset: The character-centric work of art PENNsound: a note on archives & archiving Tsering Wangmo Dhompa's In the Absent Everyday =E2=80=93 the Tibetan-American view turning surrealism on its head Marathon readings & the idea of community Some horror is beyond words: Looking back at '04 Susan Minot's Rapture: Constructing character as a problem in writing Number & ethics: David McAleavey's Huge Haiku Another great Canadian poet you haven't heard of ... yet: Mark Truscott MLA Off-Site Monster Reading: Time, Place, Names Writing poetry in reverse: a note from Norway http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:21:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerry Subject: Re: Boog City Needs Your Irish Poetry and Prose Suggestions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Montagues's "Bitter Harvest" anthology offers a depth and breadth selection. Cheers, G. E. Schwartz > hi all, > > On Thurs. March 17, 7-10 p.m., at Galapagos in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NYC > we're throwing a St. Patrick's Day party. I'm going to have some traditional > Irish standards like Danny Boy and When Irish Eyes Are Smiling sung and > Sinead O'Connor's album I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got played live in its > entirety, track-by-track (15 yrs after its release). > > I'd like to have some Irish poetry and prose read and was wondering if > anyone would have suggestions as to texts. You can backchannel ideas to > editor@boogcity.com > > THANKS! > > as ever, > david > > -- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > Boog City > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > For event and publication information: > http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 06:23:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: harlem--joy of islam MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>INFO: harlem--joy of islam ============================ Joy of Islam: An Anthology of Praise Book Event Friday, January 14, 6 pm Hue-Man Bookstore and Cafe 2319 Frederick Douglas Blvd. Harlem, NYC Panel Discussion, Gifts and drawing for Gift Certificates to the Magic Johnson Theater (next door). Peace! Hadayai Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 06:26:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: new york city--black history month video & dvd fair MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>INFO: new york city--black history month video & dvd fair ===================================================== BLACK HISTORY MONTH RARE VIDEO & DVD FAIR Sponsored by National Museum of African American Cinema The Museum of African American Cinema, Inc., (MAAC) in association with the New York State Black Films & Video Archives, will present a ONE-day fair selling rare video's and DVDs to benefit its' capital building campaign. The museum has been awarded a Provisional Charter from the New York State Board of Regents. MAAC is a project of the New York State Black Films & Video Archives. Over 4,000 different titles will be available for sale. Examples: THE SPOOK WHO SAT BY THE DOOR (DVD); IMITATION OF LIFE-both versions on DVD, SANKOFA on DVD, Quilumbo, Ganja & Hess-the original uncut version(DVD), Stormy Weather, Cabin In The Sky, Pinky, Harlem Is Heaven, The Learning Tree, Malcolm X: By Any Means Possible ,Tyler Perry's MADEA plays and MEET THE BROWNS on video and DVD, Sophisticated Lady, Dorothy Dandridge rare films, etc. Rare all-Black cast movies from 1928-1950, Oscar Micheaux and Spencer Williams classics, gospel legends,Josephine Baker films, Paul Robeson films, 70s cinema, plus documentaries, African films, new releases and, productions by independent filmmakers. In addition, a large assortment of soul, rap, R&B and gospel CDs will be available. Prices start at $2.95. All major credit cards accepted. Now is the time to build your Black Film Library. ONE DAY ONLY SALE !!! Date: Saturday, February 19, 2005 ( Rain or Shine - We are INSIDE ) Time: 10am until 7:00pm (ONLY) Place: Art Gallery ( 2nd Floor) Adam Clayton Powell, Jr. State Office Building 163 West 125th Street @ 7th Avenue, New York, New York 212-749-5298 Fee: FREE ADMISSION (You must have Photo ID to enter building) BRING THIS E-MAIL AND RECEIVE A 5% DISCOUNT ON ALL PURCHASES OVER $50. For more information, visit: http://www.aboutharlemarts.org Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:13:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last night, I read Hejinian's introduction to "The Best American Poetry 2004," and can now see the problem with Houlihan's complaint. Hejinian, I think, offers an insightful accessment of American Poetry today. Paragraphs like "Art is about living, and its meanings do not emerge or reside (and certainly cannot thrive) in a kind of isolation that 'bestness' normally confers. Poetry, furthermore, is not a static art form---its source of energy (its virtues) are not frozen in perfection but flow through time as consciousness and question. Just as meaning in language is created by the linking together of strings of words into phrases and sentences, so meaning in poetry is created by the linking together of poems to form the large, ancient, and ever new human understaking of thinking together about the things that matter to us." grasp the spirit and nature of early 21st Century poetics. It seems as if Houlihan, whose an obviously intelligent person, doesn't want to understand this because it gives her a miniority position, which stirs up responses such as those we've had on this list. So that she registers only what fits safely into last century's paradigm, which, in turn, is slowly losing the essential threads of contemporary writing. Although what she has to say is reaching its mark, unfortunately, her position is, in my opinion, is neither productive nor instructive. I may not like the poetry in the volume--I haven't read it yet--; but thanks to Hejinian's introduction, I will not lose sight of its importance. -Joel __________________________________ Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, Oregon Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 On-Line Archive: www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:48:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: revised Welcome Message | Please review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all: please take a few minutes to review the guidelines, rules & regs. for the listserv as listed below--a few more minor changes have been made. As always, please let me know if you have any questions/comments/concerns! all best, Lori Emerson listserv moderator --------------------------------------------------------- W E L C O M E T O T H E P O E T I C S L I S T S E R V Sponsored by the Poetics Program, Department of English, State University of New York at Buffalo Poetics List Moderator: Lori Emerson Please address all inquiries to: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu (note that it may take up to a week to receive a response from us) Snail mail: Poetics Program c/o Lori Emerson, 438 Clemens Hall, SUNY Buffalo, NY 14260 Poetics Listserv Archive: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html Electronic Poetry Center: http://epc.buffalo.edu C O N T E N T S: 1. About the Poetics List 2. Subscriptions 3. Subscription Options 4. To Unsubscribe 5. Posting to the List 6. Cautions This Welcome Message updated 11 January 2005. -------------------------------------------- Above the world-weary horizons New obstacles for exchange arise Or unfold, O ye postmasters! 1. About the Poetics List With the preceeding epigraph, the Poetics Listserv was founded by Charles Bernstein in late 1993. Now in its third incarnation, the list carries about 1000 subscribers worldwide, though all of these subscribers do not necessarily receive messages at any given time. A good number of other people read the Poetics List via our web archives (see web-address above). Our aim is to support, inform, and extend those directions in poetry that are committed to innovations, renovations, and investigations of form and/or/as content, to the questioning of received forms and styles, and to the creation of the otherwise unimagined, untried, unexpected, improbable, and impossible. We recognize that other lists may sponsor other possibilities for exchange in this still-new medium. We request that those participating in this forum keep in mind the specialized and focused nature of this project, and respect our decision to operate a moderated list. That is, the Poetics List exists to support and encourage divergent points of view on modern and contemporary poetry and poetics, and we are committed to do what is necessary to preserve this space for such dialog. Due to the high number of subscribers, we no longer maintain the open format with which the list began (at under 100 subscribers). The specific form of moderation that we employ is a relatively fluid one: in most cases, messages are reviewed after having been posted to the list, and difficulties resolved on that basis; however, the list moderators may shift with impunity between this and a pre-review mode which calls for all messages to be read and approved before being forwarded to the list. We prefer to avoid this option as it hampers the spontaneity of discussion that we hope to promote. 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Posting to the List The Poetics List is a moderated list. All messages are reviewed by the moderators in keeping with the goals of the list as articulated in this Welcome Message (see section 1). Please note that while this list is primarily concerned with discussions of poetry and poetics, messages relating to politics and political activism, film, art, media, and so forth are also welcome. Feel free to query the list moderators if you are uncertain as to whether a message is appropriate. All correspondence with the moderators regarding submissions to the list remains confidential and should be directed to us at . We strongly encourage subscribers to post information on publications and reading series that they have coordinated, edited, published, or in which they appear. Such announcements constitute a core function of this list. Brief reviews of poetry events and publications are always welcome. 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I think most would agree that the listserv serves as a productive communal space for discussion and announcements; as such, subscribers who do not follow listserv policy on flaming will first receive a warning from the listserv moderator and should they fail to follow policy again they will immediately be placed on review. For reasons of basic security, we do not allow pseudononymous subscriptions. We also discourage the sending of HTML-formatted messages to the list. All messages intended for the Poetics List should be sent in Text-Only format. Please also do not send attachments or include extremely long documents (1,000+ words) in a post. Messages containing attachments will be presumed to be worm- or virus-carrying and will not be forwarded to the list. Please do not publish list postings without the express permission of the author. Posting on the list is a form of publication. Copyright for all material posted on Poetics remains with the author; material from this list and its archive may not be reproduced without the author's permission, beyond the standard rights accorded by "fair use" of published materials. As an outside maximum, we will accept no more than 2 messages per day from any one subscriber. Also, given that our goal is a manageable list (manageable both for moderators and subscribers), the list accepts 50 or fewer messages per day. Like all systems, the listserv will sometimes be down: if you feel your message has been delayed or lost, *please wait at least one day to see if it shows up*, then check the archive to be sure the message is not posted there; if you still feel there is a problem, you may wish to contact the moderators at . ----------------------------------------------------------------------- E N D O F P O E T I C S L I S T W E L C O M E M E S S A G E ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:50:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: M L Weber Subject: new issue online now - call for submissions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sugar Mule, a literary magazine, issue #21 is still open - and inviting submissions - go to SugarMule.com Current issue contains: Contents: Poetry - Stephen Oliver Mark Pirie Basim Furat Rich Furman Elizabeth Swados Sarah Rosenthal Jackson Wheeler Karl Young Mark DeCarteret Prose - Neil Grimmett Deadstock Brenda Ling Think in Chinese Vanessa Raney The Things That Flash Across Your Face Tim Metcalf Book Reviews past issues: Issue #19 contains poetry by: Daniela Gioseffi, Corey Mesler, Richard Fein, Michael Schiavo, Marthe Reed, Jennifer Firestone, M. L. Weber; prose by: Daniela Gioseffi - Losing Jesus: An Essay; Karen Ackland - The Buddhist Holiday Pary; Beth Pardue - After Diana; Ray Ragosta - A book review of "Our Fortunes" by Julie Kalendek and Eric Dolphy: Some Reflections, An Essay Issue #18 Cydney Chadwick issue - Selected Works Issue #17 Rochelle Ratner issue - Selected Works Issue #16 Paul Beckman issue - "Lovers and Other Mean People" - a novella Issue #15 Special Cuban/American issue - guest-edited by Andrea O'Reilly Herrera - contains work by Uva de Aragón, Jesús J. Barquet, Aimée G. Bolaños, Carlota Caulfield, Lourdes Gil, Jorge Guitart, Olga Karman, Andrea O'Reilly Herrera, Iraida Iturralde, José Kozer, Pablo Medina, Francisco Morán, Elías Miguel Muñoz, Ricardo Pau-Llosa, Pedro Portal, Eliana Rivero, Sara Rosell, Ramón Rubio, Luna Rubio, Virgil Suárez, and Néstor Díaz de Villegas. Issue #14 contains work by Joe Ahearn, Glenn Armstrong, David Aronson, Soniah Naheed Kamal, Herbert Foster Kaufmann, Amy King, Nathan Leslie, Duane Locke, Paul Murphy, Sheila E. Murphy, Ken Rumble, Hazel Smith, Tad Wojnicki and a book review of "Living Root" (a memoir by Michael Heller). Issue #13 There is no issue numbered 13. Issue #12 contains the selected poems of Ray Ronci. Issue #11 contains work by Jason Lee Brown, Lucille Lang Day, Rich Furman, Risa Kaparo, Thomas Kellar, Alex Lemon, Wayne Moore, John Sweet, Nico Vassilakis Ian Randall Wilson, Paul Dulberg, Prasenjit Maiti, Cathy Warner, Ray Ragosta. Issue #10 contains work by Pierre Joris, Karl Young, Paul Beckman, Andrei Codrescu, Shawn Davis, Paul Alan Fahey, Herbert Foster Kaufman, John J. Maguire, Rochelle Ratner, Wayne Scheer, Lawrence Upton, and Harriet Zinnes. Issue #9 contains work by Shabnam Arora Asfah, Susham Bedi, Gregory Graafls, Vanitha Sankaran, Sunny Singh, Karl Young, Andrea O'Reilly Herrera, Karen Lewis, Geraldine McKenzie, Jonatan Minton, Sheila E. Murphy, Clark Lunberry, David Reisman, Michael Rothenberg, M. L. Weber, and Reuven BenYuhmin. Issue #8 contains work by Karl Young, M. L. Weber, Eileen Tabios, Jessy Randall, George Quasha, Manorama Mathai, Tristram Kimbrough, Jascha Kessler, Samir Dayal, John M. Daniel, Cydney Chadwick, James Cervantes, and Jonathan Alexader. Issue #7 contains work by Leonard Adler, Fred Caruso, Mark DuCharme, Halvard Johnson, Burt Kimmelman, Eric Magrane, Maureen McLane, Gerald Schwartz, Hazel Smith, Brian Kim Stefans, M. L. Weber, and Lawrence Upton. Issue #6 contains poems selected from the Collected Poems of R. P. Dickey. Issue #5 contains work by Rebecca Laroche, Katya Giritsky, H. Kassia Fleisher, Carla Homeister, Ellen Lansky, R. P. Dickey, Lawrence Lumpf, Sheila E. Murphy, Marthe Reed, Beth Simon, Joanna Sondheim, M. L. Weber, and Peter Wild. The first four issues of the magazine were print-only issues. Issue #1 contains work by Paul Hoover, Pierre Joris, Lance Olsen, M. L. Weber, Ray Ronci, John Williams, Michael Heller, Jeremy J. Huffman, Linda Bohe, Mark Amerika, and Jane Augustine. Issue #2 contains work by Michael Coffey, Jana Hays, Bob Harrison, David Golumbia, Andrew Schelling, Fred Muratori, E. McGrand, Michael Heller, Kristen Ankiewicz and Lance Olsen. Issue #3 contains work by Peter Wild, Rochelle Ratner, Bill Berkson, Elaine Equi, Laurel Speer, Trevor Dodge, Paul Beckman, Susan Wheeler, James Bertolino, Clayton Eshleman, Sheila E. Murphy, M. L. Weber and Greg Evason. Issue #4 has a theme, women writers on the natural world, and contains work by Rochelle Ratner, Amie Siegel, Patricia Dubrava, Elizabeth Fox, Brett Evans, H. Kassia Fleisher, Jean Anderson, Sharon Dolin, Laurel Speer, Cheryl Burket (interview of Vandana Shiva), and Elsa Cross. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:34:04 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: 1.20- Turn Your Back on Bush Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed For the many Americans who want to be heard on Inauguration Day, but are intimidated or turned off by drum circles & radical cheerleaders- there's...www.turnyourbackonbush.org From Turn Your Back on Bush: "Turn Your Back on Bush is a new kind of event in an old tradition: direct nonviolent action. In the past four years, Bush has made it clear that dissent is unwelcome in his America, and his policies have created an atmosphere where demonstrators are corralled and their messages marginalized. Polls show that the majority of Americans disagree with Bush on numerous issues, but by refusing to talk to anyone but the most subservient press outlets and appearing only in highly staged events, he has cut himself off from all but his most ardent supporters. We want our audience with our President. ”On inauguration day, we will gather as citizens for the public events of the day and join the rest of the crowd. At a given signal, we will turn our backs. Until the moment we turn around, there will be nothing to distinguish us from the rest of the crowd. By leaving our signs and buttons at home, we will avoid all of the obstacles that Bush and his supporters have used to keep anyone who disagrees with him out of sight. For this one moment we will speak as one and show Bush that winning an election does not mean he has the support of all Americans." _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:10:00 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KAY SCHWARTZ Subject: Re: 1.20- Turn Your Back on Bush In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This is great, but as I heard someone joke on some comedy show, "He'll probably get out of his limo to see what we're all looking at!" Cheers, Gerald Schwartz >For the many Americans who want to be heard on Inauguration Day, but are >intimidated or turned off by drum circles & radical cheerleaders- >there's...www.turnyourbackonbush.org > >From Turn Your Back on Bush: > >"Turn Your Back on Bush is a new kind of event in an old tradition: direct >nonviolent action. In the past four years, Bush has made it clear that >dissent is unwelcome in his America, and his policies have created an >atmosphere where demonstrators are corralled and their messages >marginalized. Polls show that the majority of Americans disagree with Bush >on numerous issues, but by refusing to talk to anyone but the most >subservient press outlets and appearing only in highly staged events, he >has >cut himself off from all but his most ardent supporters. We want our >audience with our President. > >”On inauguration day, we will gather as citizens for the public events of >the day and join the rest of the crowd. At a given signal, we will turn our >backs. Until the moment we turn around, there will be nothing to >distinguish >us from the rest of the crowd. By leaving our signs and buttons at home, we >will avoid all of the obstacles that Bush and his supporters have used to >keep anyone who disagrees with him out of sight. For this one moment we >will >speak as one and show Bush that winning an election does not mean he has >the >support of all Americans." > >_________________________________________________________________ >On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to >get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:18:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: bad remnant stuff gone worst MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed bad remnant stuff gone worst Tue Jan 11 15:07:45 EST 2005 org/hatandcoat.da_da_da org/glovesandscarves.da_da_da org/cowandgoat.da_da_da org/soulsandsalves.da_da_da org/thebiggermoat.da_da_da org/thewanderingfool.da_da_da org/bewarethestoat.da_da_da org/who'ssatan'stool.da_da_da .org/soundsandsights.da_da_da .org/arelyingghouls.da_da_da .org/don'tfindthemhere.da_da_da .org/theybreaktherules.da_da_da .org/thehatandcoat.da_da_da .org/thescarvesandgloves.da_da_da .org/theyrocktheboat.da_da_da .org/theykillourloves.da_da_da .org/wedieyourdeaths.da_da_da .org/wecan'tescape.da_da_da .org/there'snothinghere.da_da_da .org/thefilesgaped.da_da_da my father told me i'm a bottomless pit i had a fit my father told me i'm an infinite hole i'm an old mole my father told me i'm an absorptive clay i'd rue the day my father told me i'm an endless fool i broke the rule my father told me i'm a putrescent lump lived in the dump my father told me i'm the bane of fox lived under rocks Tue Jan 11 15:05:08 EST 2005 soon we'll be working on the format again, the precis again, the language again, the mandate again, soon we'll be working on the narrative again, the story once more, the beginnings and endings, the midst of the middles, the assuagements and appeasements, sooner or later we'll be working again. Tue Jan 11 15:06:12 EST 2005 my mother told me she'd not do that again, my mother told me she had'd it with men, my mother told me to pick up the pen, my mother came from swamp and fen, my mother told me get out of the den, don't do it again, stay away from men, begin with the pen, swallow the fen, hide in the den. Tue Jan 11 15:07:19 EST 2005 __ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:28:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: FW: Smithsonian music access Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics In-Reply-To: <003101c4f825$6961c4f0$2e00a8c0@conserve.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is a link to the new Smithsonian Global Sound website, where, starting in Feb., you'll be able to download any track off any of their records/CDs, for .99 per track. http://www.folkways.si.edu/projects_initiatives/global_sound.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:38:01 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: bad remnant stuff gone worst In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Tree of the Bad Mothers=20 . I came looking for you today in the past but you weren't there only a consistent shape, but I know it wasn't you I then looked for him, and there was a hole and I knew it my mouth open, as if I had to spit him out =E2=80=93 his soul gone but then I looked again for that friend of mine far down in time, and that voice saying: _ take him away _ and he disappeared as she did as they all left me naked _ people obeying the Voice those voices are hanging on the tree of the bad mothers by Segantini, black clouds gather like storms of crows you cannot shush them away, (because I am tied different people are cemented instead of mine in the sleepless nights of my new totemic Gestalt) because oil paint has sedimented you cannot remove a bunch of dark signs after a century or so. . posted by Anny Ballardini @ NarcussusWorks 1/4/2005 11:22:11 PM =20 Giovanni Segantini, January 15 1858 - September 28, 1899,=20 On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:18:32 -0500, Alan Sondheim wrot= e: > bad remnant stuff gone worst >=20 > Tue Jan 11 15:07:45 EST 2005 >=20 > org/hatandcoat.da_da_da org/glovesandscarves.da_da_da > org/cowandgoat.da_da_da org/soulsandsalves.da_da_da > org/thebiggermoat.da_da_da org/thewanderingfool.da_da_da > org/bewarethestoat.da_da_da org/who'ssatan'stool.da_da_da > .org/soundsandsights.da_da_da .org/arelyingghouls.da_da_da > .org/don'tfindthemhere.da_da_da .org/theybreaktherules.da_da_da > .org/thehatandcoat.da_da_da .org/thescarvesandgloves.da_da_da > .org/theyrocktheboat.da_da_da .org/theykillourloves.da_da_da > .org/wedieyourdeaths.da_da_da .org/wecan'tescape.da_da_da > .org/there'snothinghere.da_da_da .org/thefilesgaped.da_da_da >=20 > my father told me i'm a bottomless pit i had a fit > my father told me i'm an infinite hole i'm an old mole > my father told me i'm an absorptive clay i'd rue the day > my father told me i'm an endless fool i broke the rule > my father told me i'm a putrescent lump lived in the dump > my father told me i'm the bane of fox lived under rocks >=20 > Tue Jan 11 15:05:08 EST 2005 >=20 > soon we'll be working on the format again, the precis again, the language > again, the mandate again, soon we'll be working on the narrative again, > the story once more, the beginnings and endings, the midst of the middles= , > the assuagements and appeasements, sooner or later we'll be working again= . >=20 > Tue Jan 11 15:06:12 EST 2005 >=20 > my mother told me she'd not do that again, my mother told me she had'd it > with men, my mother told me to pick up the pen, my mother came from swamp > and fen, my mother told me get out of the den, don't do it again, stay > away from men, begin with the pen, swallow the fen, hide in the den. >=20 > Tue Jan 11 15:07:19 EST 2005 >=20 > __ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:54:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: michael rothenberg Comments: cc: fishdrum@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" dear friends: i am offering a hand-woven shawl (not finished yet) to whomever will donate $200 or more to the fund for michael rothenberg. send the $$ directly to suzi winson at Suzi Winson fishdrum@earthlink.net as per vernon frazer's post of a month ago or so. the shawl has a warp of pale green silk yarn, and will have a weft of pale lilac and metallic silver, plus other ancillary colors as they occur to me. it will be abt 34 inches wide and abt 7 feet long. please correspond directly w/ me if you want this shawl. i'd usually do this through poets in need, but as we discussed earlier, he can't rec a donation from them bec. he's on the board. bests, md -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:56:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: The Gods Are Pounding My Head! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed "How to be in two places at once." Ontological-Hysteric Theater announces a new play by Richard Foreman The Gods Are Pounding My Head! (AKA Lumberjack Messiah) Tuesday, and Thursday through Sunday @ 8pm In the Ontological Theater at St Mark's Tickets: students $15, adults $20, and all Saturday tickets $25 Call the Box Office at 212.533.4650 or go to the Ontological website, http://www.ontological.com I saw this Sunday night. It's another great Foreman production! There is an interview with Richard in the current Village Voice, discussing his future plans: http://radio.villagevoice.com/theater/0501,sellar,59742,11.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:06:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: our great fascist love repeats itself until we die of boredom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed our great fascist love repeats itself until we die of boredom Womack played down the photographs that showed naked prisoners stacked in pyramids. "Don't cheerleaders all over America make pyramids every day?" he said. "It's not torture." he photographs in prisoners Womack said. torture." naked America America prisoners played played in day?" "It's make stacked naked cheerleaders not make cheerleaders make every he day?" down prisoners photographs "It's America pyramids naked showed torture." pyramids make torture." showed prisoners played day?" make said. photographs stacked photographs said. make day?" down stacked showed torture." pyramids every prisoners prisoners played day?" pyramids torture." showed stacked photographs said. pyramids said. photographs in showed torture." pyramids he down stacked prisoners Womack day?" every prisoners in the said. every torture." showed pyramids. showed not every "It's photographs pyramids. stacked day?" he down in in the said. day?" stacked "Don't showed not day?" torture." showed "Don't prisoners he "It's photographs "Don't pyramids. down said. said. down in "Don't that not he stacked cheerleaders prisoners he torture." naked cheerleaders pyramids. down said. "It's photographs "Don't cheerleaders that not said. down pyramids. all prisoners torture." said. stacked all in played "It's torture." showed all cheerleaders photographs not not photographs cheerleaders all naked torture." "It's down pyramids. over in played "It's stacked over cheerleaders photographs not torture." showed over over naked torture." torture." photographs cheerleaders America in Womack not down pyramids. America "Don't the torture." Womack stacked America over showed torture." torture." showed over America stacked Womack torture." photographs cheerleaders make "Don't the torture." down pyramids. make over showed torture." Womack stacked make make stacked Womack showed over pyramids "Don't down photographs all every over that down pyramids. pyramids make prisoners Womack Womack stacked make every pyramids. down Womack showed America day?" all that Womack photographs all day?" make prisoners played down pyramids. every every pyramids. down played stacked pyramids day?" all photographs played showed America he make naked played photographs all he every in down the pyramids. day?" he cheerleaders photographs down stacked pyramids said. America naked down showed America said. every in the that all he he cheerleaders photographs the pyramids. day?" said. America showed the stacked pyramids "It's every stacked the naked America "It's he "Don't photographs that cheerleaders said. "It's over showed photographs pyramids. day?" not pyramids stacked photographs stacked pyramids not he "Don't that naked America not "It's over showed showed cheerleaders said. torture." pyramids stacked that pyramids. he torture." he pyramids. showed stacked pyramids torture." "It's all naked naked America not torture." make prisoners showed cheerleaders "It's day?" pyramids. showed pyramids. he "It's all naked stacked pyramids torture." make prisoners prisoners America torture." day?" pyramids. naked cheerleaders "It's "It's cheerleaders prisoners pyramids. he torture." America stacked in pyramids every in stacked America torture." said. cheerleaders stacked cheerleaders "It's torture." America stacked "Don't he every pyramids. in pyramids said. cheerleaders in America torture." torture." over in all "It's pyramids pyramids. "Don't he he cheerleaders pyramids. pyramids not over pyramids. America torture." pyramids pyramids. all "It's he cheerleaders cheerleaders he not over "Don't pyramids make "Don't America torture." day?" cheerleaders all "It's _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:14:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Craig, Ray" Subject: punish horse, punish horse (bad remnant stuff gone worst: part 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQoNCnB1bmlzaCBob3JzZSwgcHVuaXNoIGhvcnNlLCB1bmF0dGVuZGVkIGNvcnBzZQ0KaW5zZWN0 cyBkcm9uZSBiZWhpbmQgdGhlaXIgYXJyaXZhbA0KDQpwdW5pc2ggaG9yc2UsIHB1bmlzaCBob3Jz ZSwgdW5hdHRlbmRlZCBjb3Jwc2UNCndlIHdlcmUgb2Z0ZW4gZGVjZWl2ZWQgYnkgdGhlaXIgYWJ1 bmRhbnQgdGhpc3RsZQ0KDQoNClJheSBDcmFpZyAocHJlc3NmbGF0LmJsb2dzcG90KQ0KDQotLS0t LU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogVUIgUG9ldGljcyBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGdyb3Vw DQpbbWFpbHRvOlBPRVRJQ1NATElTVFNFUlYuQlVGRkFMTy5FRFVdT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEFubnkg 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IGF3YXksDQoNCihiZWNhdXNlIEkgYW0gdGllZA0KZGlmZmVyZW50IHBlb3BsZSBhcmUgY2VtZW50 ZWQgaW5zdGVhZCBvZiBtaW5lDQppbiB0aGUgc2xlZXBsZXNzIG5pZ2h0cyBvZiBteSBuZXcgdG90 ZW1pYyBHZXN0YWx0KQ0KDQpiZWNhdXNlIG9pbCBwYWludCBoYXMgc2VkaW1lbnRlZA0KeW91IGNh bm5vdCByZW1vdmUgYSBidW5jaCBvZiBkYXJrIHNpZ25zIGFmdGVyIGEgY2VudHVyeSBvciBzby4N Ci4NCg0KDQoNCnBvc3RlZCBieSBBbm55IEJhbGxhcmRpbmkgQCBOYXJjdXNzdXNXb3JrcyAxLzQv MjAwNSAxMToyMjoxMSBQTSAgICAgDQoNCkdpb3Zhbm5pIFNlZ2FudGluaSwgSmFudWFyeSAxNSAx ODU4IC0gU2VwdGVtYmVyIDI4LCAxODk5LCANCg0KDQpPbiBUdWUsIDExIEphbiAyMDA1IDE1OjE4 OjMyIC0wNTAwLCBBbGFuIFNvbmRoZWltIDxzb25kaGVpbUBwYW5peC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiBi YWQgcmVtbmFudCBzdHVmZiBnb25lIHdvcnN0DQo+IA0KPiBUdWUgSmFuIDExIDE1OjA3OjQ1IEVT VCAyMDA1DQo+IA0KPiBvcmcvaGF0YW5kY29hdC5kYV9kYV9kYSBvcmcvZ2xvdmVzYW5kc2NhcnZl cy5kYV9kYV9kYQ0KPiBvcmcvY293YW5kZ29hdC5kYV9kYV9kYSBvcmcvc291bHNhbmRzYWx2ZXMu ZGFfZGFfZGENCj4gb3JnL3RoZWJpZ2dlcm1vYXQuZGFfZGFfZGEgb3JnL3RoZXdhbmRlcmluZ2Zv b2wuZGFfZGFfZGENCj4gb3JnL2Jld2FyZXRoZXN0b2F0LmRhX2RhX2RhIG9yZy93aG8nc3NhdGFu 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PiBfXw0KPg0K ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:20:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Craig, Ray" Subject: punish horse, punish horse, (bad remnant stuff gone worst, part 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable punish horse, punish horse, unattended corpse insects drone behind their arrival punish horse, punish horse, unattended corpse we were often deceived by their abundant thistle Ray Craig (pressflat.blogspot) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:25:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: David Meltzer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Rothenberg and Jonathan Penton are pleased to announce the creation of the new EPC Author's Page for David Meltzer at:http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/meltzer/ Come check it out. Anyone who has recommendations for additions please contact Jonathan Penton at jonathan@unlikelystories.org . Enjoy! -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:10:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: New Photo Illustrated Chapbook on Jordan Davis/Kenneth Koch Rdg Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Now available from 213 Euclid Avenue: Jordan Davis & Kenneth Koch at the Poetry Project, 11/10/99 poem and pictures by David Kirschenbaum (me) letter size, 20 pages, first printing of 20 copies, each signed and numbered by the author. $5 + $1.06 9" x 12" SASE This is a poem I wrote about this night when Jordan Davis and Kenneth Koch read together at St. Mark's Church, and the ensuing gathering of poets at a nearby bar. The chapbook is illustrated by 15 photographs from the night, including pictures of Anselm Berrigan, Edmund Berrigan, Davis, Drew Gardner, Mitch Highfill, Aaron Kiely, Koch, Katy Lederer, Anna Malmude, Kristin Prevallet, Douglas Rothschild, and Prageeta Sharma. Send cleverly concealed cash or make checks payable (and post) to: David Kirschenbaum 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 thanks, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:17:46 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Seldess Subject: Discrete Series this Friday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit __________THE DISCRETE SERIES @ 3030__________ Presents Joe Amato :: Kass Fleisher Friday, January 14 9PM / 3030 W. Cortland / $5 suggested donation / BYOB [Joe Amato is the author of four books: Symptoms of a Finer Age (Viet Nam Generation, 1994), Bookend: Anatomies of a Virtual Self (SUNY Press, 1997), Under Virga (forthcoming from Chax Press in 2005) and Industrial Poetics: Demo Tracks for a Culture on the Blink (forthcoming from University of Wisconsin Press in 2007). Parts of his memoir-in-progress, No Outlet: An Engineer in the Works, have been published in The Iowa Review, Square One, and Voices in Italian Americana; and his essays and poetry have been published or are forthcoming in 88, Chain, Jacket, Bombay Gin, Denver Quarterly, Mandorla, New American Writing, Postmodern Culture, Notre Dame Review, Nineteenth Century Studies and electronic book review. He teaches writing and literature at Illinois State University and has just finished a novel, Big Man with a Shovel.] [Kass Fleisher's The Bear River Massacre and the Making of History was published by SUNY Press in 2004. She is the author of a novel, Accidental Species: A Reproduction (forthcoming from Chax Press). Parts of her novel-in-progress, The Adventurous, are forthcoming in The Iowa Review, Notre Dame Review, and Mandorla; essays and short fiction have been published in Antennae, Bombay Gin, Z Magazine, Postmodern Culture, electronic book review and American Book Review. She teaches creative writing at Illinois State University and is at work on a novel, Blue Blazes to Dead Woman Hollow.] 3030 is a former Pentecostal church located at 3030 W. Cortland Ave., one block south of Armitage between Humboldt Blvd. and Kedzie. Parking is easiest on Armitage. The Discrete Series presents an event of poetry/music/performance/something on the second Friday of each month. For more information about this or upcoming events, email j_seldess@hotmail.com or kerri@conundrumpoetry.com , or call the space at 773-862-3616. http://www.lavamatic.com/discrete Coming up... :: 2/11 the series will be on hiatus for the month of February :: 3/11 Camille Martin & Patrick Durgin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:51:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Big Contest with No Prizes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Big Contest with No Prizes Every Human Being has One Big Idea (OBI) and Everything She or He does is an Elaboration on that OBI. What is my OBI? Big Points but no Winnings for my OBI. I do not know my OBI. How can Anyone know their OBI? Someone else must decide the OBI. Please send to this List for Everyone to see and Yes I do Crosspost this what my OBI is. Is my OBI valuable? And what is your OBI? We should share our OBIs. Perhaps our OBI are the same and then what? Then we are Blood-Sister and Blood-Brother. We will know the same Thing. That Thing is our OBI. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:43:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Machlin Subject: FUTUREPOEM BOOK PARTY NYC 1/20 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Futurepoem books invites you to a book party to celebrate the=20 publication of: THE EXTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE by Michael Ives (selected by Edwin Torres, Kristin Prevallet, Heather Ramsdell & Dan=20 Machlin) Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:00 P.M., FREE Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West, 7th Floor (between 14th and 15th Streets) 212-691-6590 with readings by Michael Ives, Ann Lauterbach, Edwin Torres and Dan=20 Machlin & Wine and cheese reception. Directions: 4,5,6,L,N,R to Union Square, F to 14th Street. =93Michael Ives' cunningly quarried prose plinths are stippled with the=20= comedy and cruelty of Marcel Duchamp=92s and Raymond Roussel=92s wildest=20= inventions.=A0 Move over, machines c=E9libataires=97The External = Combustion=20 Engine has arrived, and it's hummin'! =97John Ashbery "The motoric energy of Michael Ives' inspections is what first caught=20 me: not just the narrative energy but the urgency of breath and its=20 deeper, darker sources. All systems were being used to inspect=97to=20 investigate. He notices and connects. The brilliance of music is around=20= these texts of his, driving rich prose discourse through the narrow=20 gate of song." =97Robert Kelly =93These narratives are intensely, wildly logical, sensual, humorous,=20 transgressive=97catapults into the particulars of an exquisite knowledge=20= for which you can=92t know you are being prepared. The high-wire=20 pleasures and exhilarations of reading are happily reawakened by this=20 brilliant, surprising book.=94=A0=A0 =97Joan Retallack The prose in Michael Ives' The External Combustion Engine is written to=20= the dimensions of fable, with the compression of a well-crafted dream,=20= fueled by fricative undulations of imagination and effect, enriched=20 with more than the standard degree of vividness in particularly=20 American linguistic superabundance which borders on the grotesque and=20 adores each moment of it. It is pleasure. =97Heather Ramsdell Michael Ives is a writer and musician living in the Hudson Valley. His=20= work with the language/performance trio, F=92loom, was featured on=20 National Public Radio, on the CBC, and in the anthology of=20 international sound poetry, Homo Sonorus. His poetry and prose has=20 appeared in such magazines as Conjunctions, Denver Quarterly, Exquisite=20= Corpse, New American Writing, and Sulfur. He teaches at Bard College. Futurepoem is a NYC-based publishing collective that publishes=20 innovative poetry and prose. It is supported in part by the New York=20 State Council from the Arts Literature Program, The Fund for Poetry,=20 The New York Community Trust, subscribers and individual donors.=20 Donations are tax-deductible through our non-profit sponsor Fractured=20 Atlas Productions, Inc. Futurepoem books can be ordered from SPD=20 books, www.spdbooks.org. For more information, go to=20 http://www.futurepoem.com. =93Futurepoem books is exemplary in structure=20= and selection, a new home for poetry that renews the art by finding its=20= beating center.=94 =97Charles Bernstein. For more information http://www.futurepoem.com Info@futurepoem.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:03:46 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: From Al Aronowitz In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DEAR FRIENDS AND READERS, Again we're unavoidably late, but the new issue of THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST, COLUMN 113, dated January 1, 2005 is now on the web. Illness continues to force us to publish an abbreviated issue. To take a look, click on http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj SECTION ONE:=20 http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column113.html A SHEEP IS A GIFT.=20 British-born Max Blagg delights us with a story about a stoned artist who deposits a dead dog at the feet of a guy making a move on his girlfriend. SECTION TWO:=20 http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column113a.html THE RIVER OF NO REGRETS. Tsaurah Litzky, America's queen of erotic writing tells us about a sexual encounter with---of all people---a Catholic Priest. FOR ADULTS ONLY! Those not 18 years of age are denied access to this page! SECTION THREE: THE LITERARY LINKS SECTION: Links to THE ALLEN GINSBERG ORGANIZATION, THE RITA DOVE website, THE PETER COYOTE website; THE MCCLURE-MANZAREK website; the AMERICAN LEGENDS website; Anny Ballardini's POETS CORNER and we now add altweeklies.com, which is a comprehensive compilation of stories from various alternative newspapers from around the country! SECTION FOUR: THE MOVIE SECTION: THE RITZ FILMBILL. Synopses of foreign, independent and Hollywood movies. SECTION FIVE: THE MUSIC SECTION, features the usual links to SONGSCENTRAL, PURR, POWER OF POP, all contemporary music e-zines; THE CELEBRITY CAF=C9, all about celebrities; the BABUKISHAN DAS BAUL website; and EAR CANDY. SECTION SIX: THE ADVERTISING SECTION, offers 13 pages of ads from Earwraps; Cleveland International Records; Richard X. Heyman; Christopher Pick; J. Crow's Milled Cider; An Advertisement for Myself; Tommy Womack, Compliments of a Friend; Zoe Artemis invites you to literary retreat in Greece; Richard Dettrey, who will help you with your shopping; BABY ON THE WATER by Tsaurah Litzky; BOB DYLAN AND THE BEATLES; and Arrogant Prick T-shirts.=20 Would you, too, like to help keep THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST on the Internet? For a nominal contribution, you can have your own advertising page in the Advertising Section of THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST. Simply send us an email to find out about particulars. There are links to friendly sites and we also feature MARK PUCCI'S ONLINE REVIEWS, originally edited by John Williams. Hope you read and enjoy.=20 Best, Al Aronowitz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 02:47:59 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'no one's in i'm just mindin' the store' 3:00...awake or asleep...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 20:59:10 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: David Meltzer a look at his "A Two Way Mirror" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a book by David Meltzer - its called "Two-way Mirror: A Poetry Notebook" I saw it in a second hand book shop somewhere..interesting form - I know nothing of him - but I found this book as I was just tidying up my books - what is the general feeling about Meltzer on this list by people? I haven't read it closely - but I like the concept of the poetry note book - of course its not new - and here poetry melds into prose -is there ever any real difference? Here is how it starts - I already like it - to get closer to grip withe guts of this thing that is Meltzer's book I'll type out the second page: The is a book of basics. Like an almanac. Variables. All over the place. No sure thing. First steps on reading and writing poems. It's a fantasy. You've already begun. Map of my effort on reading and writing a book. Yo-yo.Topographic Spread of a treasure hunt. A book inside a book and often no book at all. Shrapnel. Corkscrew through history. Like his- tory it is chaos. You finally have to write your own book. A poem is perhaps the highest form of verbal communi- cation. It illuminates and conceals. It is as precise and vague as a mirror. This book starts and ends at the beginning. Voices come at you form all sides. Gullible sparks flourish. Good luck. It seems Meltzer is talking to himself as much as to say a creative poetry class or a reader - I like Meltzer's little "aphorisms" eg: Poetry is musical speech. Then separately: Poetry's a magic act. Then he has a number of quotes and things and then comes this : ............. Imagination took words from the air and carved them into stone, etched them into bark, penned them onto parch- ment. Words were newly mined alphabets placed onto any form that could bare the imprint. Trap words from the air. Contain them. Alphabets are the language of time. The page is a strange zoo. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Penton" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 3:25 PM Subject: David Meltzer > Michael Rothenberg and Jonathan Penton are pleased to announce the > creation of the new EPC Author's Page for David Meltzer > at:http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/meltzer/ > > Come check it out. Anyone who has recommendations for additions please > contact Jonathan Penton at jonathan@unlikelystories.org > . Enjoy! > > -- > Jonathan Penton > http://www.unlikelystories.org > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 01:29:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: David Meltzer a look at his "A Two Way Mirror" In-Reply-To: <000a01c4f87c$99c56460$ab4f36d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's not a difference between poetry and prose to Meltzer, in any case. I mean, he ain't dead and I ain't speakin' for him, but I don't see one in his work. Of course the whole point of the EPC page is to give a list of links of places where you can read his work on-line, but I'll point out http://www.bigbridge.org/issue6/chapbook.htm anyway, since it's an excerpt from his new book, "Beat Thing," which La Alameda published. Two reviews of "Beat Thing" will appear in the next Big Bridge, one by Karl Young and one by myself. Meltzer didn't invent socially relevant porn, either, but he did give it the coolest name I know of: "agit-smut." I love that. There are a few examples on his EPC page. Yours, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org richard.tylr wrote: >I have a book by David Meltzer - its called "Two-way Mirror: A Poetry >Notebook" I saw it in a second hand book shop somewhere..interesting form - >I know nothing of him - but I found this book as I was just tidying up my >books - what is the general feeling about Meltzer on this list by people? > >I haven't read it closely - but I like the concept of the poetry note > book - of course its not new - and here poetry melds into prose -is there >ever any real difference? > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 05:45:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: job in the UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed This position is at the University of East Anglia - it's in Norwich, a small medieval city about an hour and 40 minutes north of London by train, an hour from Cambridge, and a nice 40 minute hop by plane to Amsterdam. If you like roast pork sandwiches, ancient cathedrals, lovely walks in the countryside, and real ale, consider applying. Post 2: Lecturer in American Studies (Literature and Culture) . AC565 Required to teach and research in any period, preferably with an interest in multicultural and/or gender studies, though other related fields will be considered. Both appointments are indefinite and available from 1 September 2005, and salary will be in the range 27,989 to 35,883 per annum (1 August 2005 pay award pending). Informal inquiries may be made to the Head of the School of American Studies, Professor Richard Crockatt, tel: 01603 592289, or e-mail: r.crockatt@uea.ac.uk Further particulars and an application form can be obtained from the Personnel Office, University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ (Internet: http://www.uea.ac.uk/personnel/jobs/ or e-mail: Subject: Re: David Meltzer a look at his "A Two Way Mirror" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've deliberately not looked at the epc page just for now as I'm reading his book - I don't think I had heard of Meltzer when I picked this book up - some of it is brilliant but some of it annoys me as "The Book of Questions " by Jabes does - although, again - I like parts of Jabes and maybe I read it to quickly - as I borrowed it from the library - but I think it is tendency toward a kind disembodiment - but I am just reaching a part of "Two-way Mirror..." which I enjoyed - his description his first poem - in fact asking his father what were the origins of things seemed to shock his father more than if he had asked about sex! I remember my daughter of 4 or 6 or so asking "Where did the first people come from?" Se would get very frantic at that - I would try to explain - but she always got very upset - I think she was asking really - how can something come from nothing...that idea of the infinite back regress - that is frightening sometimes - it still frightens me Wahi Ngaro the rocks emerging into men - the process is terrible, tyrannical (From my diaristic 'Hospital' - the wahi Hgaro is the Maori for The Void or similar). But Meltzer is good - or the one book I have - it is at the very least a good model for a way to approach a project or way into poetry (for anyone) - Meltzer says he started by feeling the limitations of prose - but I think he clearly came to see that there is a cross over: there is a constant insistence on the link between music and poetry - one thinks of Zukofsky and Joyce and so on - Pound . Whitman and Aaron Copeland are quoted...I am reading a bit from time to time - when I have finished I will follow up those links. Where is Meltzer now - I suppose I will see when I look on the links later. I am also reading "Geographies of the Imagination" by Guy Davenport - I was up all night reading his study - essay - energy - about Olson and his poem The King Fisher - fortunately had recently got a book of poetry called "American Poetry Since 1950" edited by Eliot Weinberger and Kingfisher was in it - what an incredibly great poem !! I haven't taken a good look at Olson (I did look at the Maximus poems in 1992 ..but I was a bit baffled by them - enjoyed Creeley's reading of Olson when he was here (Auckland, New Zealand in 1995) - I attended all Creeley's lectures - and tutorials -which consisted often of reading of poets - Spicer, Ed Dorn, Berrigan, John Wieners - and talking in what I now realise was or is an Olsonian manner (eg about wandering about Wellington city and thinking about how the boundaries of certain properties were - there - and not "there" and so on) - and reading the Maximus poems - when Robert Creeley reached the poems with print going in circles - he - amusingly - turned the book (as if turing or being turned around like a compass needle (or like the character in Endgame by Beckett who is constantly moving his chair to find some mysterious centre!)) - trying to get to that geography! that location --but just like the regress - and the unanswerable question of Meltzer to his father - there is no central point (the earth is constantly moving as Olson knew and Heraclitus etc) ( and in fact there is very great poem by NZ's Kendrick Smithyman called "Reading the Maps" which deals, in part, with that idea - where do we begin to define a thing, an idea, a person, a locality etc) -- it was curious - but a very good reading or readings of these poets and of Olson. At the time in Auckland there was exhibition of the artist Tony Fomison's and Robert seemed very moved - or disturbed - by Fomison's strange dark images - something that maybe echoed his readings of Wieners etal (Fomison is a significant artist but not perhaps "typical" - or maybe he is in a way - point is the poet had seen something he hadn't quite seen in America - there is hardly an artist quite consistently dark, even morbid - but I think what happens as one lectures on something one starts to see connections - Davenport connects things up - or traces possible connections - he energises things - there is almost no reason to begin or end - as Meltzer says: This book starts and ends at the beginning. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Penton" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:29 PM Subject: Re: David Meltzer a look at his "A Two Way Mirror" > There's not a difference between poetry and prose to Meltzer, in any > case. I mean, he ain't dead and I ain't speakin' for him, but I don't > see one in his work. > > Of course the whole point of the EPC page is to give a list of links of > places where you can read his work on-line, but I'll point out > http://www.bigbridge.org/issue6/chapbook.htm anyway, since it's an > excerpt from his new book, "Beat Thing," which La Alameda published. Two > reviews of "Beat Thing" will appear in the next Big Bridge, one by Karl > Young and one by myself. > > Meltzer didn't invent socially relevant porn, either, but he did give it > the coolest name I know of: "agit-smut." I love that. There are a few > examples on his EPC page. > > Yours, > -- > Jonathan Penton > http://www.unlikelystories.org > > > richard.tylr wrote: > > >I have a book by David Meltzer - its called "Two-way Mirror: A Poetry > >Notebook" I saw it in a second hand book shop somewhere..interesting form - > >I know nothing of him - but I found this book as I was just tidying up my > >books - what is the general feeling about Meltzer on this list by people? > > > >I haven't read it closely - but I like the concept of the poetry note > > book - of course its not new - and here poetry melds into prose -is there > >ever any real difference? > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 21:22:57 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Boog Video Highlights at Ahadadabooks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John Byrum, Paolo Javier, Rick Peabody, Dan Sendecki and Jesse Glass are up at www.ahadadabooks.com. Catch their readings and selected pix of the gallery where it all happened. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:36:15 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Re: job in the UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 27,989 to 35,883 per annum > pounds or dollars? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:32:17 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: job in the UK In-Reply-To: <100.aac9ff9.2f1681cf@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pounds sterling On 12 Jan 2005, at 13:36, Adeena Karasick wrote: >> 27,989 to 35,883 per annum >> pounds or dollars? > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 09:35:54 -0500 Reply-To: rumblek@bellsouth.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Desert City w/ Standard Schaefer, Marcos Canteli, & Rachel Price -- Bi-lingual Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [apologies for cross posting] Please spread far and wide......... Who: Standard Schaefer, author of _Nova_ and the forthcoming _Water & Power_, 1999 National Poetry Series Selection, freelance journalist, former babysitter of Twinkles and Sunshine, will make you love him Who: Marcos Canteli, author of _Enjambre_ and _Su Sombrio_ the winner of Spain's Ciudad de Burgos award, current Duke University graduate student, newlywed, taught Dan Flavin everything he knows Who: Rachel Price, translator of Marcos Canteli's poems, Duke graduate student, scholar w/ flavor, sang "You Ain't Nothing But A Hound Dog" on Stein's 90th birthday What: Desert City Poetry Series, Spanish-English Poetry reading, two languages are better than one When: This Saturday, January 15th, 8:00pm, 2005. Where: Internationalist Books, 405 W. Franklin Street, Chapel Hill, NC Why: "Too much agreement ... kills the chat" "when / arrival was return / finding the finest / shortcut" See you there..... Next Month: February 19th: 2004 National Book Award Finalist Cole Swensen with Chris Vitiello *Internationalist Books: http://www.internationalistbooks.org *Desert City Poetry Series: http://desertcity.blogspot.com *Standard Schaefer: http://www.fencemag.com/v2n2/work/standardschaefer.html *Marcos Canteli: http://www.lukor.com/literatura/noticias/0411/04175415.htm *Rachel Price: http://www.duke.edu/~jad2/price.htm Contact the DCPS: Ken Rumble, director: rumblek at bellsouth dot net "Peak" by Standard Schaefer Speak no, smoke but I appraoch as an equal, three miles, all mountain set on devouring if not the setting, then certain accommodations modestly burnt off-- the marine layer and the alleged force of beautiful things a visual discourse suppressed by the frivolous refolds as geological upheaval voiciferous shafts of light above all a burdened archipelago of bad options and enthusiasm not quite wavering between not quite nowhere and not quite with nowhere left to go from "Morning: Hintz Road" by Marcos Canteli, translated by Rachel Price or that moment among the snow fording the depth in its hardness the heart deepened under the highbeams, as did a wound in the absence of that hand * a traffic of images that would come to be real not here but on their way, doubling that time when the real perhaps may be only that time * and the tang of innocent animals skins decomposing, nor will the reek remain this last heat knowing all the same that in some sense something human they have * when the traversed takes root * in any event the warmth was already a sediment, sitting there or in the form of saliva skin of hospital a very simple emotion from inside * or this boy who in hugging the tree trunk carries us off ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:01:10 -0500 Reply-To: waldreid@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: waldreid@EARTHLINK.NET Subject: Re: michael rothenberg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm sorry; i lost track of this......was there ever an address posted where one can send books to michael as was suggested? if so, could someone either direct me to that post or re-post the address? many thanks, diane wald ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:37:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: michael rothenberg Comments: To: waldreid@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes sorry you send addressinfo to me it'll get to you soon i'm sure ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:41:21 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noemata@KUNST.NO Subject: netoong te relax count your breath no nothing web cl~~~ m not sisting bhsi - tagsydu & fogea im D monar BWf 565, edg 4 `¶§¾¶¶¶¶¶¶¶F idear(¶¶¶§þ??þ¾§§§) critically about being Like a failure and/or feel you used to have no 1 6173 09 Received: from 64.233.184.196 (EHLO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.196) thidns Raeig the aobve It de'snot mkae THIS SE(¶¶§§§§¶¶¶¶¶¶¶¶¶¶¶¶¶¶`NTE¶¶¶¶¶§¾§§§§¾F" . dowdies nester for frazzle > library room, baby jesus and virgin mary, done with a mechanical typewriter. ` (AAQUUQQHUA#QUFUUQF"UQQLLQQQ#AAUDAA4F"DA)"" ""`UHQHQFQH#QQHQU (D_AUQ###QQHQQNHF UALUQUAA4`UU#UAA#UUQUAAUUQQQUQAAUUUAUQ###Q#QQ#AQU AAAAAAAAAAAAAAALU)FLDADDAAAAAL(DDDA#HHH#HNNQUAADAAAAAJADAUUAAUUUUUAAAAA >Great, I've been looking for an engine to do these bitmap->char conversions NNNNNNN UQUUQ#QUUAUAUAUAAAAAADDDDADADDJLLA##Q#QQQQUHH#QUQHHHHHNNNNHNHHH##H#AUUA AAAAUAAAAAAAD AHQUUUUA_ `LAA##UAUQAQF4Q#HUH#AQ#QUU#QHFQ#AUJ)`( UQUUUUUUUUUUUAAAAADD(F" JUQ#AUQQQ##U#Q##Q##QUQQU#HH#HQH#QQQAAUD UUUUUUUAUUAUAAAAAUUUAAAUUUUAAUUUUUAAUAAUUU `AUUAAF` "4AF" noemata ------------=_1070572706-709-525 6 He sdæe þæt he æt suumm crire wolde fandian hu lnoge þæt lnad >> > "Joan Bourgeois" DELE 25 ------------=_1070572706-709-525 derived from the word nous. The word nous is the Greek word for at, to, trowad, trwaods, a, in, insdie, itno, on, per, wiihtn, at, by, on, when hamne her salve mgiht huums queuits grui cretupmo a te duloc we spare ex, from hkeke hovna sokppum fruy daeth hva, hof darmes mei the arivral, come ff . ||| And einerrtseps of gerat pith and moamnt p=E5, tall slep: kongo p=E5, t=E6l dream: ay, there's the rub; yea brusanagtnlkl the whips oase sorcns fro mite, Alan Sondheim _____ __ __ ___ ________ ____ ilpqtu Nqzvavfgengvba.Guvf vf n senzronfrq fvqr Office fédéral de la justice - adeimnsux densu kopi har no 00000740h: 66 61 6B 74 61 09 20 09 20 09 20 09 Alan Sondheim fakta I og adlydelse bør går c____u__ m__m e r 0ol______ l0e______ d____ er difficulty. wide romanization diff. whitey glu______. wistwae hubnowa enidhyde ?sgal edyhdine ?srat daelp cat mysaen rtscinos ratciti solo uncway w ake t e whis k wis y za n twae hub nowa y enid alkalin hyde n tsil icy il y la ll wi'ace lad rawsax eyad lags? plead tars? d ? laud utlyd utnavn utopi utror utukt lags? plead tars? ? laud scanner? tenkte pånytt et suspekt nettprosjekt å sirkulere epenger - 1:1 bilder hva gjør vi med lykken? har den noen plass å gjøre av seg? eller er lykke å noe. meaning cues (morphology),sound cues (phonology),and picture cues meticulous and leaves no detail to chance;when learning new ma- __ Because it has lost a sense of real humor, a sense of laughter's ikke bli løst fra det norske statsborgerskapet. Det forutsettes at vedkommende ofp speilet inn en quickly Mars03 program ...kunsten som asosial aktivitet? eller den samme sosialitet/asosialitet -- > > Kent Manties-Eljot >-Tar du avstand fra bin Laden? Kent Manties-Eljot xQ/jGxm1O56sj3XLwL9KwXX+sa6+Ro4n4LDOEQHUAJRMqGqB+1u6AjIN4JTB >Alltid moro - Mulla Krekar: w96m56sr4vjzkU9x0J0Ork2u0rQux6u2Yrp17NWvt5/MQ4/eBxmREerhcqk+ http://www.arkivnett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/b%6aor%6ema%67/germinal/ksfdaoiu/ks_19921125-3=szfgdfoi.jpg 5k =00t=00y=00p=00e=00=3D=00"=00t=00e=00x=00t=00/=00c=00s=00s= 083026425223082533446850352619311881710100031378 | | ** * -*-- -*-*****--*--*-***-*- ---- * ** * *--*--*--* * * *--* *--*--*--* *--*--*--* *--* tianiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii =00= pa penger pfi phi pinne poeng pp på påstand what does it mean? experienced space, time, body, which move appropriately with the __ isbn 82-92428-39-9 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:03:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Update on Michael Rothenberg (re-posted) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Happy New Year. Michael's family has moved to what will be their temporary address in California, probably for this year. He is in the new place with Nancy and Cosmos for the time being, then heading back to Florida as things get worked out. The temporary address is: 200 Bonita Ave Pacifica CA 94044 For those who've offered books for the library, they can be sent to the address above. Some of Michael's many poet friends are generously sending their own available works, signed. I think that's a beautiful idea. Best, Suzi *** Suzi Winson fishdrum@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:21:24 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noemata@KUNST.NO Subject: [18] Law but do we know that? How do I know 'autological' is autological? By matter-space-matter. It's wrong to say he's dressed, and wrong to say. Hie tic noshn fhma igar, dæo sar butre ut i sder starrilsh, dhcce virt the child, that's Return. If not, then nothing, but the economy. What ...l..d....b..di os eed fro fhr krosum? thtt losi vot hisot har amdaslis, mht dom dimmyn >te for rensi ellar samty ogs en mual fro Mesc se va far herh kocs ...........y...u es goks af i vitce i dag tatlos og lietu eht ran har fer ee vhxy i Alan Sondheim intoxicated your countrymen wenkel bombs it will be salons o n selg rsv: l r s a and my lavaliere sevan arrondissement wises you . [syndicate] WALLS & WINDOWS $matrix = star($str); for ($i = 0; $i for theologizing dionysian bulk. form, slik at en kan tilvirke tøyelig og varmt garn. . sdfffsfdf qw lfreds,_ego__P motion paradoxes isbn 82-92428-13-5 pre.txt isbn 82-92428-13-5 an. and about facts do be about "appear" to "elapse an".... saw long i no pre.txt isbn 82-92428-13-5 [1] - y'o\vue at least pratalily, beacme somobdey esle! But bfeore miovng you , &qu ot; and abiding a dialog along with very much to the point. about facts goes OICH For more names, customer pictures and recommendations 8""""8 #8"""8 #8 8 #8 #8"""" #8""8""8 #8"""" # OO OO HH HH ZZ EE NNN NN YY YY AAAAA .:: :: .::.::::::: .:: .:::: .:: :: ETORPHOTO nightmare of 911 video footage on endless replay, everlasting aversion against, any institution or any ideology. Like categories and convictions, including those which allegedly make him that is part of the "code", there are even explicitly secret codes. With "subject" which is "Han får kam til håret". nonplus "Skjønte eg det ikkje", sa jenta. Det går for vidt. Dei spanar og forhøyrer seg. Han har ikkje oversikt. siden. ABM, en-to-tretten snakke med Publikum i alle aldre inviteres til å skrive korte tekster som skal være en del Vilter, dyr kanari-pip-pip i Rana krydret liV See more at: http://psych.pomona.edu/scr/author_instructions.html FRAUD PISTILS OUR COMPANY IS SUBPROBLEMS ON BUSINESS.SO CONTACT ME NFLNC RTRN // YR LRVF ND WRK SH h RP N N ll fr nnt dwn FRTN r: MSSG n MR HNGVRS? bRNld nw D?= S vCTZ NXPTTLNSV NLN P HR jRS fRST TM hM rlaltdel.org> Subject: Re: [syndicate] [autorobot003] [spamwatcher] __ http://noemata.net/automata as if with a pen 6e6f656d6174612f6175746f6d6174610a0a ------------------------------ 11 No response that? - the circle, the cell (reviewed by other life forms, eg viruses), -/ ): :( supremo no poitou don't exist there's surely no point eking. thickest mental ~~~t ~~~h ~~~e Global Time Synchronizer there is a small path going west, another going south. You hear water but kQ+3+QP/aSYKdKx87JC8QUVqL2bcHMM9nUQhk0I1l9cmwyqmLfbWjfv7VlFDSAYR LOUD HOLLOW BLOWN HO/BOCLOUD mostly some other purpose, mostly 'mental keeping the house, keeping the house ------------=_1076426095-30823-53-- . ions g on the ch ai r d uck lo t o ngue sw eat o r ban g ed it up ki______ ng whi__________ st______ le p____ re . (asco-o) ions -sveltesensor-was-sinning-hoe mycolder d l ash , scumm y l a k e ! or in gall drippage , rice moth index what , map caw . http://mail.ljudmila.org/mailman/listinfo/7-11 Shake the KKnut: http://anart.no/~syndicate/KKnut . Re: ions > .. . .. ... ..... ..... .. .. ... .. . .... as plunging off the sand fragments fu ious shoul der tatt er ub lack c By Stan Franklin spiller bort editorial commentaries på porno enn scientist, and one of the architects of the Internet. If he's right, then videre i beste velgående (døden forynget meg faktisk). Det er alltid litt MÅTTE jeg bare skru på." ? the responser | 3.3.03 --------------------------------- noemata . Re: Happy Valentine's Day 1) Code and its double refers to Antonin Artaud's 'Theater and its Re: where the fig are you? the examplesTexts with >sequentially accessed) and a mea ns of####+### l . Cri n XXusts impley pixel > formative_ in-form perfor > c hat r . Re: Code and its Double (in relation to brain asymmetry) http://kunst@NOEMATA.NET/va1/00index.jpg 60k agnostic. For that reason, parental controls of the sort that AOL enervate the intellectual vigor of all movements by isolating them in cannot condemn those who practice it. Moral relativism is often Perhaps for that reason, conservatives blame the kind of liberal * our submarines used to control their radio-controlled torpedoes. This footnotes hyperlinked to other sources with explanatory material, a [13] Culler, 243. kind of public space, such as a museum or café. Furthermore, the deconstructionist critic approaches a text. Deconstruction, which * Editorial Correspondents: Ken Hollings (UK), __ isbn 82-92428-39-9 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:38:27 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: interview Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT there's a very cool interview with me conducted by Arizona poet Sheila E. Murphy at Rupert Loydell's Stride magazine, UK www.Stridemagazine.co.uk -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:24:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Make your January 30th plans early [NYC] ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Poets Timothy Liu and Alex Lemon will read from their work at 8 p.m., Sunday, January 30th at the Cloister Café, 238 E. 9th Street, in the East Village of New York City. This free reading will also celebrate the release of Typo 5, which features new poems from D.C. Berry, Lisa Beskin, Anne Boyer, Karl Elder, Jeff Encke, Ryan Flaherty, Dean Gorman, Shannon Jonas, Matt Hart, Alex Lemon, Timothy Liu, Joyelle McSweeney, Stan Mir, Daniel Nester, Nathan Pritts, Peter Jay Shippy, Sheila Squillante, Tony Tost, James Wagner, and Franz Wright. The reading and release party will announce Typo's transition to print as well as kick of a monthly reading series, to be held on the last Sunday of every month. Typo is an emerging poetry magazine that has quickly established its presence among literary readers. In addition to readings upcoming in New York City, Typo will host a reading at the Associated Writing Programs Conference in Vancouver this March. Previous issues of Typo reside at . For further information contact Matthew Henriksen at 917-478-5682 or . Timothy Liu (Liu Ti Mo) was born in 1965 in San Jose, California, to parents from the Chinese mainland. He studied at Brigham Young University, the University of Houston, and the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. He is the author of Of Thee I Sing (University of Georgia Press, 2004); Hard Evidence (Talisman Books, 2001); Say Goodnight (1998), which was a finalist for the Lambda Literary Award; Burnt Offerings (1995); and Vox Angelica (1992), which won the Poetry Society of America's Norma Farber First Book Award. He has also edited Word of Mouth: An Anthology of Gay American Poetry, (Talisman House, 2000). His poems have been included in more than twenty anthologies and have appeared in such magazines and journals as Antioch Review, Denver Quarterly, Grand Street, Chelsea, Kenyon Review, New England Review, Paris Review, Ploughshares, Poetry, and TriQuarterly. Timothy Liu is an Assistant Professor at William Paterson University; he lives in Hoboken, New Jersey. Alex Lemon was born in the Midwest and raised in Hawaii, Oregon, Las Vegas, and S. Illinois before returning to the Midwest. He received his B.A. from Macalester College in 2001 and in 2004 received his M.F.A. from the University of Minnesota, where he taught courses in literature and creative writing and was the assistant editor of Luna: A Journal of Poetry and Translation. His poetry has appeared or is forthcoming in Gulf Coast, Black Warrior Review, Cimarron Review, CutBank, Indiana Review, The Journal, Pleiades, Post Road, New Orleans Review, Salt Hill, Sonora Review, Swink and Washington Square among other literary journals. His translations (with Wang Ping) of a number of contemporary Chinese poets are forthcoming in New American Writing and other journals. He is the new poetry editor for the online literary journal Konundrum Engine Literary Review. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:58:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The man and the deer demonstration text for WVU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The man and the deer demonstration text for WVU The man went into the forest looking for deer. He didn't find very much, because he spent very little time there. Nothing came to mind. He had a gun with him and it was very good for the deer that he came back without any dead animals. He and his wife were very poor. La la la, what to do! What to do! There was no food in the house and they would soon starve to death. But they knew there were other folks in the town and soon they all got together and ate one another and that was the miserable end of the man and his wife because they were the first ones to be eaten. The moral is probably to shoot deer or shoot yourself, it doesn't matter much to God or anyone else. much went deer. the or yourself, doesn't for looking else. doesn't it else. looking deer. man much it God the He the God it much went He looking else. doesn't matter deer. deer. man much doesn't else. looking He the God doesn't God the didn't looking else. doesn't to went He deer. The much matter deer. didn't into God matter else. looking find looking anyone matter or the find He much to went didn't didn't into God much He very looking anyone much else. looking very deer. to or the very find went God God went didn't very forest anyone to He much, deer. to else. for much, find went God or the very much, forest anyone God went find because deer. else. God He because didn't man or else. looking because much, the anyone anyone the much, because for else. or went find he didn't man or He he much, the anyone else. looking he he for else. else. the much, spent didn't The anyone went find spent very into else. The He spent he looking else. else. looking he spent He The else. the much, very very into else. went find very he looking else. The He very very He The looking he little very went the because time he forest went find little very deer. The The He very time find went The looking spent there. because forest The the because there. very deer. man went find time time find went man He little there. because the man looking spent Nothing very for man the because Nothing time didn't went into find there. Nothing much, the went he little and and n't matter much to God or anyone el e he . He and hi . He and hi e he t looking for deer. He didn't find very much, becau e he no food in the hou in the town and oon they all got together and ate one another and that wa oon no food in the hou e and they would oon they all got together and ate one another and that wa t one to be eaten. The moral i t one erable end of the man and hi erable end of the man and hi t one elf, it doe e. e. hoot your hoot deer or elf, it doe Dze man uent !n2 dze 4ezt look!ng 4 der. He d!dnt f9nd vr! mukh, bkauze he zpent vr! l!ttle t!me da. Nodz!ng kame 2 m9nd. He had a gun u!th h!m + !t uaz vr! good 4 dze der dzat he kame ba-k u!dzout an! dead an!malz. He + h= u!fe ure vr! poor. La la la, uhat 2 do! What 2 do! Da uaz no food !n dze houze + dze! uould tzoon ztarve 2 death. But dze! kneu da ure odzr folkz !n dze town + tzoon dze! al got togedzr + ate 01 anodzr + dzat uaz dze m!zrable end ov dze man + h= u!fe bkauze dze! ure dze v!rzt onez 2 b eaten. Dze morl = probabl! 2 shoot der or shoot yourzelv, !t doeznt mattr mukh 2 God or an!01 elze. much, very find didn't He deer. for looking forest the into went man The a had He mind. to came Nothing there. time little very spent he because without back came he that deer the for good very was it and him with gun do! to what la, la La poor. very were wife his and He animals. dead any starve soon would they and house the in food no was There do! to What they soon and town the in folks other were there knew they But death. to of end miserable the was that and another one ate and together got all The eaten. be to ones first the were they because wife his and man the much matter doesn't it yourself, shoot or deer shoot to probably is moral else. anyone or God to The man went into the forest looking for deer. He didn't find very much, because he spent little time there. Nothing came to mind. had a gun with him and it was good deer that back without any dead animals. his wife were poor. La la la, what do! What There no food in house they would soon starve death. But knew there other folks town all got together ate one another miserable end of first ones be eaten. moral is probably shoot or yourself, doesn't matter much God anyone else. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:57:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Davey Volner Subject: Jan. 15: Charles North, David Shapiro on the Bowery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Charles North and David Shapiro will share the stage, for the first time by some estimates in twenty years, this Saturday at 7PM at the Bowery Poetry Club. They'll be joined by two younger poets, in what we hope will prove a true bash. All the info's below-- hope to see you there. The Bowery Poetry Club Presents Charles North & David Shapiro With Michael Paulson & Davey Volner Sat., January 15th at 7 PM The Bowery Poetry Club’s Second Installment in a New Series of Readings: Two Renowned Poets Paired with Two Young, Unpublished Writers Charles North was the editor, with James Schuyler, of Broadway and Broadway 2. His books of poetry include New and Selected Poems (Sun & Moon, 1999) and The Nearness of the Way You Look Tonight (Adventures in Poetry, 2001). David Shapiro is the author of ten books of poetry, and has published poems and criticism in The New Yorker and The Paris Review. He is the recipient of numerous prizes, and was a nominee for the National Book Award. Michael Paulson and Davey Volner are both recent graduates of Columbia University, and the recipients of several distinguished awards for their poetry. Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery btwn. Houston & Bleeker $6 at the door Questions? Call (212) 614-0505 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:54:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Anybody out there know how to reach Jonathan Skinner? I've emailed various people over the past two months and received no replies, which suggests he's in the witness protection program. Please backchannel. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:22:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: The =?windows-1252?Q?=93Chairman_Fred_is_Back=94_Tour?= MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT The “Chairman Fred is Back” Tour ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The “Chairman Fred is Back” Tour The POCC presents Poetry for Political Prisoners Featuring Chairman Fred Hampton Jr of the Prisoners of Conscience Committee Phavia Kujichagulia, political jazz artist The Show Stoppers (young women dance ensemble) and more! Sunday – January 23, ‘05 6pm-8pm Free At Oaklandish – 411 2nd St (btwn Broadway and Franklin) Jack London Square in Oakland (next door to Everett and Jones) Who We Be? The POCC! What’s Our Call? Free’em All! Free All Political Prisoners! cosponsored by POCC Radio: The Block Report Radio Show, Black August Organizing Committee, The World Wind Newspaper, The Commemoration Committee of the Black Panther Party, and Oaklandish $5 dinners will be sold Fundraiser for Black August ‘05 Featuring Chairman Fred Hampton Jr of the Prisoners of Conscience Committee Tarika Lewis, the first woman to join the Black Panthers and legendary jazz violinist Showing: “The Assassination of Chairman Fred Hampton” Documentary Thursday – January 27, ‘05 6pm-9pm $3 at Humanist Hall 390 27th St. (btwn Broadway and Telegraph) West Oakland $5 dinners will be sold Sponsored by the Black August Organizing Committee and the POCC Cosponsored by POCC Radio: The Block Report Radio Show Part of a monthly series of fundraisers for Black August ‘05 ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:16:15 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: The man and the deer demonstration text for WVU Comments: To: sondheim@PANIX.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Salute to the deer hunter. Murat In a message dated 01/12/05 3:19:38 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: > The man and the deer demonstration text for WVU >=20 >=20 > The man went into the forest looking for deer. He didn't find very much, > because he spent very little time there. Nothing came to mind. He had a > gun with him and it was very good for the deer that he came back without > any dead animals. He and his wife were very poor. La la la, what to do! > What to do! There was no food in the house and they would soon starve > to death. But they knew there were other folks in the town and soon they > all got together and ate one another and that was the miserable end of > the man and his wife because they were the first ones to be eaten. The > moral is probably to shoot deer or shoot yourself, it doesn't matter much > to God or anyone else. >=20 > much went deer. the or yourself, doesn't for looking else. doesn't it > else. looking deer. man much it God the He the God it much went He looking > else. doesn't matter deer. deer. man much doesn't else. looking He the God > doesn't God the didn't looking else. doesn't to went He deer. The much > matter deer. didn't into God matter else. looking find looking anyone > matter or the find He much to went didn't didn't into God much He very > looking anyone much else. looking very deer.=A0 to or the very find went G= od > God went didn't very forest anyone to He much, deer.=A0 to else. for much, > find went God or the very much, forest anyone God went find because deer. > else. God He because didn't man or else. looking because much, the anyone > anyone the much, because for else. or went find he didn't man or He he > much, the anyone else. looking he he for else. else. the much, spent > didn't The anyone went find spent very into else. The He spent he looking > else. else. looking he spent He The else. the much, very very into else. > went find very he looking else. The He very very He The looking he little > very went the because time he forest went find little very deer. The The > He very time find went The looking spent there. because forest The the > because there. very deer. man went find time time find went man He little > there. because the man looking spent Nothing very for man the because > Nothing time didn't went into find there. Nothing much, the went he little > and and >=20 > n't matter much to God or anyone el e he . He and hi . He and hi e he t > looking for deer. He didn't find very much, becau e he no food in the hou > in the town and oon they all got together and ate one another and that wa > oon no food in the hou e and they would oon they all got together and ate > one another and that wa t one to be eaten. The moral i t one erable end of > the man and hi erable end of the man and hi t one elf, it doe e. e. hoot > your hoot deer or elf, it doe >=20 > Dze man uent !n2 dze 4ezt look!ng 4 der. He d!dnt f9nd vr! mukh, bkauze he > zpent vr! l!ttle t!me da. Nodz!ng kame 2 m9nd. He had a gun u!th h!m + !t > uaz vr! good 4 dze der dzat he kame ba-k u!dzout an! dead an!malz. He + h= =3D > u!fe ure vr! poor. La la la, uhat 2 do! What 2 do! Da uaz no food !n dze > houze + dze! uould tzoon ztarve 2 death. But dze! kneu da ure odzr folkz > !n dze town + tzoon dze! al got togedzr + ate 01 anodzr + dzat uaz dze > m!zrable end ov dze man + h=3D u!fe bkauze dze! ure dze v!rzt onez 2 b > eaten. Dze morl =3D probabl! 2 shoot der or shoot yourzelv, !t doeznt matt= r > mukh 2 God or an!01 elze. >=20 > much, very find didn't He deer. for looking forest the into went man The a > had He mind. to came Nothing there. time little very spent he because > without back came he that deer the for good very was it and him with gun > do! to what la, la La poor. very were wife his and He animals. dead any > starve soon would they and house the in food no was There do! to What they > soon and town the in folks other were there knew they But death. to of end > miserable the was that and another one ate and together got all The eaten. > be to ones first the were they because wife his and man the much matter > doesn't it yourself, shoot or deer shoot to probably is moral else. anyone > or God to >=20 > The man went into the forest looking for deer. He didn't find very much, > because he spent little time there. Nothing came to mind. had a gun with > him and it was good deer that back without any dead animals. his wife were > poor. La la la, what do! What There no food in house they would soon > starve death. But knew there other folks town all got together ate one > another miserable end of first ones be eaten. moral is probably shoot or > yourself, doesn't matter much God anyone else. >=20 >=20 > _ >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:43:23 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Sweet S.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the first time I saw Susan Sontag was at an anti-war rally at SUNYBUFFALO..sometime in the early 70's...she must have been wearing a dark sweater and jeans..canvas shoes or sneakers.. talked like an angel..a grad student's wet dream.. 'cross 'tween the Claudia Cardinale of 8&1/2, bobbie creeley & the dark lady of the sonnets... the next time i saw Susan Sontag...i was sitting on one my many junker cars selling books on Spring St..mid 80's ...the tall awkward woman who had just spilled half a can of coke on my stuffe..turned out to be her...i let it pass... the next time....the next time..she would come by..."it's unbelievable..i'm so famuz.. but i don't have any money"...she was teaching a course in Kant at the new school...fame was a shadow run quick... one time...i took her up to the loft & 'showed her my books'...she sd 'i'm not a COLLECTOR'.. i sd 'if someone gave you a 1st of Les Fleurs du Mal...you'd kept it...' then one time..i read somethin that she wrote.. gobblleegook...degook de blah...broke a spell.. the next time she came by..as many other middle-aged women did...i sat on my car reading a book... i would see Susan at the corner Japanese Sushi joint..a shadow on a winter nite running by...once at the opera where i pointed her out to L...'there's Annie Lebowitz"... i saw her about 2-3 years ago...at a hunger artist's performance piece...nude and starving for 2 weeks.. i was there to see the tits..maybe she was too... tho the young butch friend she was with... i last saw Susan Sontag was on Prince St... getting into a Limo...after looking at the 9/11 photo show..where Lor had a piece of the yuppie couple..she pregnant...cum gas masks..... i saw...i dream...i was....drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:55:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Machlin Subject: Christian Bok/Mike Kelleher @ Segue Series Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=MACINTOSH; format=flowed The Segue Reading Series @ the Bowery Poetry Club Saturday, January 15, 4-6 p.m. MIKE KELLEHER and CHRISTIAN BOK* ***$5 admission goes to support the readers*** The Bowery Poetry Club is located at 308 Bowery, just north of Houston,=20= NYC Mike Kelleher lives in Buffalo, where he works as Artistic Director for=20= Just Buffalo Literary Center. He has published four chapbooks: To Be=20 Sung (Blazevox), Cuba (Phylum), Bacchanalia (Quinella) and The=20 Necessary Elephant (Ota Molloy). His poems and essays have appeared in=20= Kiosk, Rampike, Queen St. Quarterly, verdure, murmur, The=20 Transcendental Friend, Lagniappe, ecopoetics, and other journals. Christian B=9Ak is the author of Eunoia (Coach House Books), a=20 bestselling work of experimental literature, which has won the Griffin=20= Prize for Poetic Excellence (2002). Crystallography (Coach House=20 Press), his first book of poetry, has also earned a nomination for the=20= Gerald Lampert Memorial Award (1995). B=9Ak has created arti=DEcial=20 languages for two television shows: Gene Roddenberry=D5s Earth: Final=20 Con=DFict and Peter Benchley=D5s Amazon. B=9Ak has also earned many = accolades=20 for his virtuoso performances of sound poetry. He currently teaches=20 English and Creative Writing at the University of Calgary. This reading was made possible with the generous support of The=20 Canadian Consulate General in New York. The Segue Reading Series is made possible by the support of The Segue=20 Foundation. For more information, please visit www.segue.org/calendar,=20= http://bowerypoetry.com/midsection.htm or call (212) 614-0505. Curators: Dec. & Jan. Dan Machlin & M=97nica de la Torre.= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:19:43 -0800 Reply-To: Africanvoices@aol.com, Young_Black_Intellectuals@yahoogroups.com, pocc_international@yahoogroups.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Great Things Happenin'/ January MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT please post & spread ______________________________________________________________ Great Things Happenin'! in January ______________________________________________________________ Table of Contents 1. Note of the Month 2. Writing Workshops @ Sistas' Place 3. Saturday Night Jazz @ Sistas' Place presents... 4. Not One Damn Dime Protest 5. Family Communication: Doing More Than... 6. Like It Is Needs Your Help! 7. UpComing Deadlines (iv) 8. Websites To Check Out 9. Contact Louis Reyes Rivera ===================== 1. Note of the Month Cognizant of the Beauty of Difference and the cultural forms through which we have all manifested ourselves,... this is the year 6005 (estimated from the time the one we call Menes united Upper and Lower Egypt). AND in the same breath it's the year 4703 (at least, according to the Chinese calendar). AND, yes, it's also the year 3753 (estimatedly from the period during which Abraham walked the earth). AND, yes, it's also the year 3105 (estimated on the basis of the Mayan calendar) AND it's even the year 2005 (+ or - 4, the generally accepted year since the birth of Jesus) AND it is the year 1426, (estimated from the Islamic AH, as the year Mohammed fled to Medina) ...However the case, and depending on what you read,... HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR! _____________________________ 2. Writing Workshops @ Sistas' Place For January only, the two monthly workshops will meet on the following dates: Saturday, January 15, 2005, at 12 noon. Saturday, January 22, 2005, at 12 noon. Workshops with Louis Reyes Rivera. We cover poetry, fiction, nonfiction, essays, basics & advanced, from 12noon to 4pm _________________________________ 3. Saturday Night Jazz @ Sistas' Place presents... Jan 8/ Bob Stewart and the First Line Band Jan 15/ Lenora Zenzalai Helm/ Dedication to MLK Jan 22/ Kimati Dinizulu featuring Antoine Rooney Jan 29/ Mario Escalara Sextet with Manny Duran, Patience Higgins, Richard Clements, Phil Bowler and Chip White All concerts feature two sets (9 & 10:30pm). For reservations, contact Sistas' Place, at 718-398-1766. For updated information go to sistasplace.org or ahmedian.com Sistas' Place 456 Nostrand Ave. (at Jefferson) Take the 'A' Train to Nostrand Programs at Sistas' Place are produced by The CODE Foundation in association with Shamal Books & Melchizedek Music Productions, and partially funded by private and public grants from BET JAZZ and the New York State Council on the Arts through the Brooklyn Arts Council Inc. For reservations and information, contact Sistas' Place, at 718-398-1766. For updated information go to www.ahmedian.com or www.sistasplace.org. _______________________ 4. Not One Damn Dime Protest Concerned activists throughout the nation are calling for a Silent Protest (Not One Damn Dime) to take place on January 20, 2005, the day that George W. Bush is once again inaugurated to the presidency. According to the circulating memos, "since religious leaders have not spoken out against the war in Iraq, since political leaders lack the moral courage to oppose it, Inauguration Day, Thursday, January 20th, 2005 is now dubbed Not One Damn Dime Day throughout the United States. On that day, those who oppose what is happening in Iraq can speak up with a 24-hour national boycott against all forms of consumer spending." All potential participants are asked not to spend any money on that day. "Not one damn dime for gasoline. Not one damn dime for impulse spending. Not one damn dime for anything for 24 hours." In addition, initiators of this silent protest are urged to boycott such conglomerates as Wal-Mart, Kmart, Target and other such stores, including Kentucky Fried Chicken, Taco Bell, and Pepsi products. Urging that no visits be made to local malls and convenience stores, in short, no purchases of any kind be made for that 24-hour period, organizers explain the context for their call: "The object is simple: to remind everyone that (a) the war in Iraq is immoral and illegal; (b) that capitalists are responsible for starting it and must be held responsible for stopping it; and (c) that those in office are elected by the people of the United States of America and therefore owe allegiance to them, and not to the corporate lobbyists." They further add that "politicians owe our troops a plan -- a way to get home. There'll be no rally to attend, no marching to do, no left or right wing agenda to follow or outlaw. On January 20, 2005, we all take action by doing nothing. You open your mouth by keeping your wallet shut. For 24 hours, nothing gets spent, not one damn dime!" __________________________ 5. Family Communication: Doing More Than... A conference that emphasizes family communication kicks off in Brooklyn, NY, on Saturday, January 29, 2005, at Public School 9 (80 Underhill Ave., between St. Marks and Bergen), beginning at 10am. This public forum features local service providers, information tables, discussion of techniques that can be applied at home, community leaders and workshops designed to include and assist both parents and youth in learning to communicate better. Workshop facilitators include Andrea Philips-Merriman from Brooklyn Neighborhood Improvement Association, Ife Charles from Crown Heights Mediation Center, Kevin Frazier from Brooklyn Children's Museum, Edward Toney, a kinship caregiver, Eric Adams, attorneys Alicia Crowe and Mark Pollard, among others. The five-hour forum is free and open to the public. For information and registration, call Brooklyn Community Board No. 8, at 718-467-5574 (or 5620). Family Communication: Doing More Than Blah Blah is cosponsored by Community Board 8, Public School 9, Banco Popular, Ralph-Lincoln Service Center and Community Counseling and Mediation. __________________________________ 6. Like It Is Needs Your Help! After close to 35 years of continuous airing, Gil Noble's weekly news program, Like It Is, has been cut back by WABC-TV from its one-hour format to a half-hour cram. Supporters see this cutback as a warning sign and have begun campaigning to have Like It Is given back its regular one-hour format. Like It Is has remained among the most thought-provoking programs on broadcast television, producing and airing historical documentaries and contemporary issues affecting African American communities. Concerned citizens are urged to write or call WABC-TV at 7 Lincoln Square, New York City 10023-6298, (212) 456-4811. Electronic emails can be sent to www.7online.com. All correspondence should be addressed to both the Station Manager and the Program Director at WABC-TV. ___________________ 7. UpComing Deadlines (iv) (i) Poetry Prize The Louder Arts Poetry Prize ($500.00 + reading and publication) is open for submissions until Feb. 1, 2005 (louderARTS.com/awake). Dedicated to uniting the various worlds of poetry (writing & performing, structure & slam, study & action, personal & political, solo & collaborative) seeks poetry that takes risks. The poem to win this contest will be one that shifts the air in the room when it's read, that rattles the atoms of reader and listener, that breaks through the ordinary in craft and expression with new possibilities. For guidelines, go to louderARTS.com/awake or send a SASE to The louderARTS Project, Attn: Prize Committee, PO Box 1247, New York, NY 10276-1247. No electronic submissions! Deadline: Feb. 1, 2005. (ii) Anthology: Editors Rich Martinez and Barbara Renaud González welcome submissions for Fear of a Brown Nation, an anthology that looks to include analytical and historical scholars, poets, journalists, creative writers and students. Essays, fiction, poetry, testimonials welcomed. Objectives: (1) responding to white America's fear of Latinas/os; (2) dealing with resentment to white America; and (3) resistance and social struggle. Original, uninhibited, fearless, personal and political submissions a must. Prose should be under 2,000 words; poetry "must raise hell." Submit to Rich Martinez (chicanoselfreliance@yahoo.com) or Barbara Renaud Gonzalez (barbararenaud@sbcglobal.net). Deadline: Feb. 1, 2005. (iii) Anthology: The editors of To This Revolution We Will Rise: Poets of Color Dissent from Around the Globe still seeking submissions for an anthology to be published by Third World Press, with radical poets of color from Africa, the Caribbean, Latin America, the Arab region, Aboriginal Australia, South Asia, Indigenous North America, and their respective diasporas. Topics include occupation, resistance, self-determination, internal/external colonialism and how these impact on culture, religion, gender, tourism, violence, economics, ecology, land rights and agriculture. The Deadline has been extended to March 1, 2005. Include: name, address (email too), a short bio, country of residence & origin. No more than five poems and their English translation (if needed). Send to: Matthew Shenoda, College of Ethnic Studies, San Francisco State Univ., 1600 Holloway Ave., San Francisco, CA 94132-4100. Electronic emails to shenoda@sfsu.edu. Place "Anthology" in the subject line. (iv) Anthology: Louis Reyes Rivera and Bruce George are putting together an anthology, The Bandana Republic, to include the writings (fiction, poetry, letters, essays, artwork, etc.) created by past and present members of urban gangs and street organizations. It's an opportunity for the entire planet to read our truth about both our desperation and our aspiration. We want it real, positive and negative --a testament to the politic rising up from the streets. Email Louisreyesrivera@aol.com or go to website (thebandanarepublic.com) for guidelines. ____________________ 8. Websites To Check Out + A new website (afromexico.org) on the African-Mexican Diaspora is an information center regarding African-Mexican people, including access to independently produced documentaries that are available through Latin American Video Archives (lavavideo.org). ++ There's always good news at ChickenBones: The Journal. Click on nathanielturner.com and browse: interviews, critiques, retrieved documents, and current issues affecting Afro-America. +++ Between The Lines is a newsletter published by the National Writers' Union New York Chapter, featuring must-read articles that emphasize trade unionism for writers and artists alike. BTL can be accessed at nwu-ny.org. Once on the homepage, click on Between The Lines. Adobe Acrobat Reader can be downloaded for free (follow instructions on the page). Once there, click on the desired issue you wish to read. January's issue is out now! Let us know what you think! ________________________________ 9. Contact Louis Reyes Rivera To contact Louis Reyes Rivera for readings, lectures, jazzoetry performances, etc., and for any of the items listed below, email Louisreyesrivera@aol.com or write to Shamal Books, GPO Box 16, NYC 10116. NOW AVAILABLE: Copies of the award-winning poetry collection, Scattered Scripture, as well as copies of a new CD (Ahmed Abdullah's Dispersions of the Spirit of RA: Traveling The Spaceways) featuring poet Louis Reyes Rivera, are available here. The ensemble also features such excellent musicians and vocalists as Billy Bang, Craig Harris, Salim Washington, Alex Harding, Owour Arunga, Masujaa, Radu, Cody Moffett, Monique Ngozi Nri, Miles Griffith, and, of course, bandleader Ahmed Abdullah. Tune in to WBAI (99.5 fm &/or www.wbai.org) every Thursday @ 2pm (Eastern Time) Perspective (where Art & Politic meet), with Louis Reyes Rivera. Be advised that to secure Internet access to Perspective you should tune in at 1:30pm. Phonelines Crowded! ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:34:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 System First #0001 =20 =20 eV1nge"e~()r- an'c+l'e( Thanks. 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Hot eurytm(following) - Select all, copy, RFRTTTRTRTTRTTRTTRTTRTTR consistency of the be neither write a fatal blow to David Hilbert true. can An incomplete system can An incomplete system. !,) August Highland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:35:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Significant Review Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , UK POETRY Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A phenomenal review of two books on The Administration's Torture policies and their implementation in Quantanamo, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Atrocities in Plain Sight By ANDREW SULLIVAN Published/ NY Times Sunday Book Review: January 13, 2005 http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/13/books/review/books-sullivan.html?pagewante d=1&ei=5094&en=18377bb67bd220f5&hp&ex=1105592400&partner=homepage (If this does not work, just go to this evening's (Wednesday's) web edition of the NY Times where this story is featured). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:35:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Make your January 30th plans early [NYC] ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Raiser Style #0002 If a tool or martial attitudes and almost inevitable. There are times to explore devotional attitudes, perhaps slightly confused the wood. I want to the person asking the wood to be used. It is the core of before but one such as 'modern witch' is common and take upon the text does not to remove the expression of the village wise folk and most comfortable and debris. The preparations for the elements and insidious economy which hold some ground on which profess to much noise.do you up to balance or perhaps 'sorcerer', depending on with some of the circle and I follow the work. It is the Godhead that points towards the sentence, leaving it stands at home with, I explain the work we had to the speakers and what with ducking stools and is a ritual. I saw a tool or sorcerer as one very activity of one place to be more is not a wood called Blackcap. We've been concocted from eclectic combinations of this, as one place to say to use and most comfortable and we want to perform a while Bartleby works in on since there's no signposts. If, however, form of intimacy. We have, after all, the police first entered my time the copper back to the circle. A space in effect the ritual. When I would lead nowhere but a cursory knowledge is to empower us to help produce both a sacred space but as he confesses to produce both a form the paradoxical nature of the name however, since it is being prepared in our activity. It rests upon our activity. It doesn't indicate a story by his black blue uniform standing on secret wisdom. These self then is followed by a particular things or alignment with ducking stools and get on this situation that no, we cook up a form the fluidity of power. This incident in our way of thumb is will itself becomes a lot to move from one likes but also challenged me to establish some of formulas. This process of the world. I want to reach. We are always routes of the root of 'is' and I return to particular things or slogan or martial attitudes we take a tool or technique, perhaps obvious that I confess that names we remove the 'is' that there is almost inconsequential thing that we're all set of a lot to lie. This was something from one place to develop an unwillingness to his superior that I remember the 'is' was to 'is'. The point here but 'headless' (acephalous). Researching and the year long history of us, carrying all sticky and get on which then expressed out of us. We're carrying all around in language as governed by Melville there was I doing? I am happy to me, 'can you want to places we'd never really indicate a very activity of thumb is will never thought by some innate mystical ability to trap us from mediaeval witchcraft as something else we're filming the bulk of the accounts which is used as one such as the name. Whilst naming and we're chaos majik? Chaos majik is, in this call the hill, having to witchcraft, understood not to create a more historically accurate are here. I've had on the endorphins to explore. 'Modern witch', then, you're not only the use of spellcraft, which to me. Matt, matt, the scene. There's a more is that' we call out. I return to do with their fluidity and more detail than not to'. This knowledge of witchcraft actually is of that, there's all majikal names, for me. Working or drive that certain phrases and we are underway. A fire is perhaps the 'is' that at least some of that, there's all our attempt to tell me in on which hides us because of the endorphins to move along a very names that they will itself into a name such a strategy, nor is in the bulk of us, carrying lights and susceptible to use of before but that someone asks, or technique. For example, can then this call out. I don't intend flying overhead tonight' and imaginal role for certain phrases and so I can also claimed that no, we can then is sometimes rather than if we don't expect to explore devotional attitudes, perhaps slightly confused the modern witchcraft. That very phrase, is subordinate to establish some sweaty exertion before we cook up the evening's ritual are here. I've had been at least just as well as 'chaos majician' is something old, evil and susceptible to be consciously recreated each time because of being associated with the name such as a task in the questions. When I even if 'this is an account from the power can see, and debris. The point here is will itself becomes a couple of texts which can be lit when we want to be used. It takes on secret wisdom. These images, however, it is will enjoy telling their collective efforts for some of texts and hot and which we are but the wood to do with ducking stools and negation of modern self- identified witches. I came back to use the formula which, through some to move from the Srivener who suggested the current that they are here. I've had to know in some of 'and'. Instead if it works such as 'modern witches'. The talk, the alteration and so simply named us as governed by his black blue uniform standing on the core of a stance that is that we're up the name such as a ubiquitous and is to lie. This process is that Crowley used the core of embodying in so I remember the year long loyalty to rise intensely whenever I came back out or when we don't intend flying tonight, it's something old, evil and double takes on since the Hermetic and the use the actual truth and Witchfinder Generals, rather loosely articulated by the desire for a partially fixed path or Wicca, which we can be made. What exactly was no rave, just as well as governed by his superior that chaos majik. Understanding the hillside illustrates, is perhaps obvious that no, we use of thumb is the quarters. It's busy and double takes when faced with our lives. This is something that determines objects as a partially settled island of warty old and we put our ability to take a partially settled island of a simple statement I follow the Greek text does to further elaboration that will never fully determinable and a recognition and we're all around the name or set of removing the Miners strike, '84 - '85, when the name. Whilst naming and we're all sticky and double takes on our speech can be just as well as 'chaos majician' will quite rightly refuse labels, by those very activity of texts that someone asks, or when faced with but one very phrase, modern self- identified witches. I came back out of the intricacies of injunction to witchcraft, even the hillside illustrates, is in the majician to the craft of an impulse or drive that Crowley used in the Godhead that challenge this heavy heavy work and banners, in majik itself. Any activity needs a tool or majikal names, for the hill. A fire is the root of formulas. This is perhaps slightly confused the thought as you that chaos majicians, modern witches, holding a form a ritual gets underway and possibility of the middle ages, with the police officer is at the elements of the only technique that I am happy to me, 'can you walk, the structure of being named or sorcerer as an impulse or at least just a form of texts that I suggest using an excess in communicable practice of speaking and we had on my time the year long loyalty to witchcraft, is central tenet of that, there's all our lives. This is a group of language as well as something Deleuze also be seeing 'witches on when we cook up here tonight, in terms. Of course, anyone involved in white flour to formulate a self-description, whilst not it stands at all. The point here is that witchcraft are inside by those very names would prefer not to form of our indoctrination through society. Burrough studied with the majician to the strategy by doing they are but also to move along after we use and beliefs. Refusal and the music, that I doing? I don't often implies and the world. This meant that I expect they will quite rightly refuse labels, by those with some people have to the name. Whilst naming and more often than an excess in red and using Bartleby's case, or technique, perhaps if from the term witch or when faced with ducking stools and acting that it yourself', to disarm rather than it is the copper in the rules. 'I would lead nowhere but that they reveal something, they name or perhaps the statement I might want to the sigil banners we've got permission and temporarily. For example, the superintendent jokes about what's going on the 'and' at that can also to emphasize the work is the core of an original text such as the endorphins to form of embodied belief structures, archetypal enactment, intuitive acting out in the scene. There's a tool or twelve of names as the fluidity opens up a recognition and possibility of the generators are always experimental. If it becomes an example of texts which can still reasonably suggest, to move from the world whilst I would be, I want to explore devotional attitudes, perhaps the ritual up with an account from the creation of enforcing such as the modern witchcraft actually is not to' grows into a formula, just as a formula, a ritual. The role in a no need. 'What are always open and we need not completely engulfing the power in a fixed reference to be seeing 'witches on broomsticks flying overhead tonight' and perhaps if tentatively and the young copper back down witches rather loosely articulated since I follow the 'is' and unknowing questioner, that is a foothold in its' centre, the differences I returned to move from which profess to particular things or magickian, since I even in the current that can then be just another policeman on secret wisdom. These images, however, it is that' we find a wood to 'is'. The popular view of us, carrying lights and we're all set off back out in my only a desire for a simple and culture whilst simultaneously disclosing our minds through society. Burrough studied with an anomalous formulas which gives us to write it stands at it always routes of the quarters. It's busy and exploration of the language, with the formula will enjoy telling their way up the formula is of True Will or phrase, modern self- identified witches. I returned to the Malleus Maleficarium, a name as legitimately employed. Researching and which gives us because of this, as the sigil banners we've begun hanging. There's this is to the role of the middle of thumb is never thought by those with the circle and so here is vital for a wood stacked in so here is the use of the term witch or martial attitudes and I have it. 'We're modern witchcraft, is of both the innocent and something old and another strategy of the formula for change. In whatever way up the name however, it for change. In the fluidity opens up the inside the idea that we've got permission and temporarily. For example, in advance. The talk, the activity of the main source of modern witches, having to remove the thought of being from eclectic combinations of one that it had quite rightly refuse the differences I have to explore devotional attitudes, perhaps if tentatively and changed as the incident with the Christian church than if 'this is simply the formula. This process is then is the idea of the conversation. I explain that I made when faced with his black blue uniform standing on my jewelry box, in a working rule of the creation of names as the Godhead that challenge this situation that can be made. What exactly was to balance or majikal work is to say it for certain phrases and unknowing questioner, that challenge this situation that witchcraft is subordinate to sell books rather to write it is vital for the 'is' was the quarters. It's busy and the formula for a moment. 'So, it's just, what we need not to describe it becomes an account from the name. If our speech can either 'magick' or perhaps the world. This was to work. Obsessing about what's going on itself. Any activity needs a working rule of majikal work we are for me. Working or even in so I would prefer not having to create the psychology of both a formula which, through its herb and superstitious, preferring rather than not self dissolution strategies and possibility of the expression of the copper asks and more often than I confess that will enjoy telling their way up a self-description, whilst I remember the craft itself. Many of ancient Grimoires from the generators are underway. A fire is in a police officer is to use texts and another strategy of True Will or technique. For example, the name as 'chaos majik' but this call out. I suggest that a part of the young copper back out in white flour to take us the formula. This was something Deleuze also claimed that a tool or set off back out or alignment with his boss to have much to the sharp edge or refuse the sigil banners we've begun hanging. There's a cloak which to lie, there's simply named through the activity needs a situation that I expect to later on our intention is one such a formula, just another policeman on my practice of the radical exploratory strategies can then we remove the most central tenet of propaganda written by a formula but also challenged me what chaos majik. Witchcraft, common response. When pressed he stops and banners, in a simple statement I couldn't explain that challenge this might describe my only a formula and loads of power. This incident involved in hand, we need not it is of the end of consciousness to disarm rather than something modern. So a time changing ritual. The response begins to tell him that we're filming the modern witches, holding a chalky, bumpy path, winding steeply into a ritual. The point of intimacy. We are underway. A spiral about ten, maybe fifteen feet wide, has been drawn in itself into a way of before we understand it works as a solicitors office copying texts and on itself. Many of working rule of propaganda written by some innate mystical ability to do so doing that it stands at our circle. A spiral about the police are thought as a recognition and food and hot and temporarily. For example, in its' centre, the ancient texts, to rise intensely whenever I can still reasonably suggest, to write it out?' As we want to witchcraft, is an injunction to create a time changing ritual. When pressed he means learning the attitude that should be found. If a fixed creed would be, I returned to me. Working or figure which we take a long history of us, as a part of being prepared in communicable practice of being named or perhaps if we remove the 'is' that determines objects as 'chaos majician' will itself act like labels, by the state we put our intention is of us, carrying lights and labeling is never close in more detail than an original text in a few of political activity. It is part of quite a way up the notion of the fluidity of the modern witchcraft and possibility of their way up to trap us good luck. I want to the expression of the dark has more is common and amps and sweaty exertion before but gradually 'I would run radically counter to say it for a big group of working rule of being prepared in terms. Of course, anyone involved one very rough and possibility of spellcraft. In the middle ages, with the ritual gets underway and thereby promote a name can be used. It takes on my practice however and acting out in majik is that' we can then is a way of a name. If it stands at all. The use such as easily into anomalous formulas which is a very simple statement I explain that we had decided that the ability to sell books rather to admit that can be understood not to. Curious and Witchfinder Generals, rather than confront, to cut oneself whenever it had to particular things or technique. For example, in communicable practice of the music, that I made when faced with others, an anomalous moment. 'So, it's just, what witchcraft as a name at least just another strategy of warty old women with but this might describe it works in this might want or at our gear up the assessment I had no necessity to me, 'can you that we remove the generators are underway. A fire is one place the ancient texts that names used the intuition in the radical exploratory strategies to the year long loyalty to you tell the South Downs for will itself chaos majik is a rude interruption of the work. This process of that, there's no nor possible to 'create it simply something else we're filming the innocent and what witchcraft and beliefs. Refusal and something from the formula. The same slight distinction applies with Count Korzybski who suggested the rules. 'I would say, is the naming. In the craft, with the strategy of propaganda written by a formula for a formula for itself, as a recognition and which hides us good luck. I saw a contradiction in the main source of fact had quite what is not to.=20 August Highland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 21:54:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: blog topics: spicer, olson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Recent topics at my blog: -Olson's Projective Verse -Spicer's dictation as poetry source vis Octopus essay -My poem The Woodsman and the Nixie, first pub'd in Chiron Review http://pornfeld.blogspot.com Michael Hoerman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 22:10:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Great Tree of Morgantown, West Virginia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The Great Tree of Morgantown, West Virginia http://www.asondheim.org/tree.mp4 The Blair Witch Project Great Tree of Capsule, Vermont _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 22:22:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG: Dale Pendell this Saturday at Ortspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POG=20 presents DALE PENDELL READING Saturday, January 15, 2005, 7:00 PM=20 Ortspace (east room, entry on alley) 121 E. 7th Street Admission: $5 ($3students) for further information contact POG: 615-7803,=20 mailto:pog@gopog.org or check our web site, www.gopog.org DALE PENDELL=20 Dale Pendell is the author of Living with Barbarians, A Few Plant Poems, = and the acclaimed Pharmako trilogy, including Pharmako/Poeia: Plant Powers, Poisons, & Herbcraft; Pharmako/Dynamis: Stimulating Plants; and Pharmako/Gnosis (publication expected in 2005). Allan Ginsberg described the first volume of the trilogy as "an epic = poem on plant humours, an abstruse alchemic treatise, an experiential narrative jigsaw puzzle, a hip and learned wild-nature reference text, a comic = paean to cosmic consciousness, an ecological handbook, a dried-herb pastiche, = a countercultural encyclopedia of ancient fact and lore that cuts through = the present 'conservative' war-on-drugs psychobabble." Terence McKenna wrote that "Dale Pendell reactivates the ancient = connection between the bardic poet and the shaman." His poetry has appeared in many journals, and he was the founding editor of "KUKSU: Journal of = Backcountry Writing." He has led workshops on ethnobotany and ethnopoetics for the Naropa Institute and the Botanical Preservation Corps, and has presented = at the Mind States conference. His performance group, Oracular Madness, = most recently appeared at Burning Man. A software engineer as well as poet and student of ethnobotany, Pendell recently noted that "one of the things I'm trying to do is trace Gnostic wisdom tradition and higher spirituality through the western tradition. = A lot of my practice and background has been through Buddhism, and more = the vision quest, shamanistic religion, but I wanted to find a system of = ideas and to ground it in the western tradition also going through = Alexandria." Dale Pendell is in southern Arizona courtesy of Bisbee's Central School Project: CONTACT: Michael Gregory, 432-5374, centralschlprjct@theriver.com Friday, January 14, 2005, 7:30 PM Author Dale Pendell Central School Project, Poets Voice Series 43 Howell Ave in Old Bisbee Admission: $6 ($4 students with ID) DALE PENDELL READING AT CSP, FRIDAY, JANUARY 14TH On Friday evening, January 14th, Dale Pendell will read from his own = work in the Poets Voice series at Central School Project, in Old Bisbee. The=20 performance will start at 7:30 pm in the auditorium of the historic=20 facility at 43 Howell Ave. and be followed by a public reception and=20 book-signing. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 00:28:22 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sword form 'nother pen quicker to the kills... aft. midnite....drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 00:56:42 -0500 Reply-To: Joel Lewis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Lewis Subject: Re: David Meltzer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Meltzer has many books out from Black Sparrow, he also has two excellent anthologies of writings on jazz. Look for a selected poems from Penguin this year. Fans of psychedelic 60's rock will want to check out a CD of his band called Serpent Power, whose drummer was Clark Coolidge. Band was SF-based and opened for Doors & others at Filmore West. If you find Italian CD of Serpent Power it is coupled with "Poet's Song" (both Vanguard) the follow up album. In Early 90s Meltzer toured a bit with his late with Tina and Coolidge in a poetry music unit. A lot of his sixties work is taken up w/ kabbala and his Tree Press published a number of Kabbalist texts in English for first time. His anthology "A Secret Garden" (Station Hill) is a good non-Madonna way into those ancient texts Joel Lewis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 00:27:43 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know a lot of poets - especially Coolidge etal (and I like the Coolidge eg of Polaroid etc) -are "trendily into jazz etc" - I like jazz but suspect poets who like jazz too much - it is not High Art (I am thinking at this moment )such as that of Bach or even Charles Ives - I dont see much connection betwixt jazz and contemporary poetry. Or any poetry. I allow that jazz has its place - but I prefer Bach. That is how I am reacting right now ! Attendez vous!! Sometmes I cant even stand Bach - I want silence - sometimes I think there is too much music - surely white noise cancels all music and removes its neccessity - surely!! - the word that is what we ant - The Word! Death to all music !! Long live the Glorious Word - The Logos !! I am not impressed of the antics of this Meltzer trendily pretending he likes jazz -pffff!! Playing jazz or any other such music is undignified for a poet. Ha!! Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Lewis" To: Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 6:56 PM Subject: Re: David Meltzer > David Meltzer has many books out from Black Sparrow, he also has two excellent anthologies of writings on jazz. Look for > a selected poems from Penguin this year. > > Fans of psychedelic 60's rock will want to check out a CD of his band called Serpent Power, whose drummer was Clark Coolidge. Band was SF-based and opened for Doors & others at Filmore West. If you find Italian CD of Serpent Power it is coupled with "Poet's Song" (both Vanguard) the follow up album. In Early 90s Meltzer toured a bit with his late with Tina and Coolidge in a poetry music unit. > > A lot of his sixties work is taken up w/ kabbala and his Tree Press published a number of Kabbalist texts in English for first time. His anthology "A Secret Garden" (Station Hill) is a good non-Madonna way into those ancient texts > > Joel Lewis > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 00:31:33 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: and the Kabbala MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And I'm sick of hearing about the Kabbala and all that shamanitic crap - = "The kabbala" - Ha! More like "The Old Cobblers" HA! Richard Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 04:45:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now In-Reply-To: <002001c4f962$e6fbf640$5fe236d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know, and the kabbalah is SOOOOO not a real religion. Totally Britney. Embrace the ancient wisdom at http://www.edwood.org/ -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org richard.tylr wrote: >I know a lot of poets - especially Coolidge etal (and I like the Coolidge >eg of Polaroid etc) -are "trendily into jazz etc" - I like jazz but suspect >poets who like jazz too much - it is not High Art (I am thinking at this >moment )such as that of Bach or even Charles Ives - I dont see much >connection betwixt jazz and contemporary poetry. Or any poetry. I allow that >jazz has its place - but I prefer Bach. That is how I am reacting right now >! Attendez vous!! Sometmes I cant even stand Bach - I want silence - >sometimes I think there is too much music - surely white noise cancels all >music and removes its neccessity - surely!! - the word that is what we >ant - The Word! Death to all music !! Long live the Glorious Word - The >Logos !! I am not impressed of the antics of this Meltzer trendily >pretending he likes jazz -pffff!! Playing jazz or any other such music is >undignified for a poet. Ha!! > >Richard Taylor > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joel Lewis" >To: >Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 6:56 PM >Subject: Re: David Meltzer > > > > >>David Meltzer has many books out from Black Sparrow, he also has two >> >> >excellent anthologies of writings on jazz. Look for > > >>a selected poems from Penguin this year. >> >>Fans of psychedelic 60's rock will want to check out a CD of his band >> >> >called Serpent Power, whose drummer was Clark Coolidge. Band was SF-based >and opened for Doors & others at Filmore West. If you find Italian CD of >Serpent Power it is coupled with "Poet's Song" (both Vanguard) the follow up >album. In Early 90s Meltzer toured a bit with his late with Tina and >Coolidge in a poetry music unit. > > >>A lot of his sixties work is taken up w/ kabbala and his Tree Press >> >> >published a number of Kabbalist texts in English for first time. His >anthology "A Secret Garden" (Station Hill) is a good non-Madonna way into >those ancient texts > > >>Joel Lewis >> >> >> > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 07:17:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now In-Reply-To: <002001c4f962$e6fbf640$5fe236d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard, You're entitled to your tastes and opinions. But if you listen, for example, to Kerouac reciting with jazz, you'll hear the rhythmic relation between jazz and American speech. The accents of words and syncopations of rhythms fall in the same places. Meltzer writes with the rhythms of jazz propelling his words. It gives them energy and vibrancy. You'll hear the rhythmic strength even if you read in silence. Meltzer is a lifelong jazz aficionado. Given the ups and down of the public's reception of jazz during his lifetime, Meltzer is anything but "trendy." He is extremely knowledge about a music he's lived with and loved for a lifetime. And Coolidge is more than a casual listener, himself. To write The Rova Improvisations, he had to be deep into the realm of free jazz, where many aficionados lose the thread of this more experimental music. I've heard he's also an accomplished drummer. I could harangue you with another five thousand words, but I have a plane to catch. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of richard.tylr Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 6:28 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now I know a lot of poets - especially Coolidge etal (and I like the Coolidge eg of Polaroid etc) -are "trendily into jazz etc" - I like jazz but suspect poets who like jazz too much - it is not High Art (I am thinking at this moment )such as that of Bach or even Charles Ives - I dont see much connection betwixt jazz and contemporary poetry. Or any poetry. I allow that jazz has its place - but I prefer Bach. That is how I am reacting right now ! Attendez vous!! Sometmes I cant even stand Bach - I want silence - sometimes I think there is too much music - surely white noise cancels all music and removes its neccessity - surely!! - the word that is what we ant - The Word! Death to all music !! Long live the Glorious Word - The Logos !! I am not impressed of the antics of this Meltzer trendily pretending he likes jazz -pffff!! Playing jazz or any other such music is undignified for a poet. Ha!! Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Lewis" To: Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 6:56 PM Subject: Re: David Meltzer > David Meltzer has many books out from Black Sparrow, he also has two excellent anthologies of writings on jazz. Look for > a selected poems from Penguin this year. > > Fans of psychedelic 60's rock will want to check out a CD of his band called Serpent Power, whose drummer was Clark Coolidge. Band was SF-based and opened for Doors & others at Filmore West. If you find Italian CD of Serpent Power it is coupled with "Poet's Song" (both Vanguard) the follow up album. In Early 90s Meltzer toured a bit with his late with Tina and Coolidge in a poetry music unit. > > A lot of his sixties work is taken up w/ kabbala and his Tree Press published a number of Kabbalist texts in English for first time. His anthology "A Secret Garden" (Station Hill) is a good non-Madonna way into those ancient texts > > Joel Lewis > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 07:21:31 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're right -- Kabbalah is NOT a religion-- it's an interpretive strategy...> > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 07:10:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: L A Webb Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Who is L A Webb ... seems like his name is on all the credit cards!? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:12:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: and the Kabbala In-Reply-To: <002b01c4f963$6f6fe860$5fe236d2@computer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" richard: i'm afraid in this case you don't know what you're talking about, you are offending people whose tradition this is, and it wd be better for you listen a bit on this score before offering an opinion due to your ignorance. with best wishes, md At 12:31 AM +1300 1/14/05, richard.tylr wrote: >And I'm sick of hearing about the Kabbala and all that shamanitic >crap - "The kabbala" - Ha! More like "The Old Cobblers" HA! > >Richard Taylor -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:19:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Poets in the news: C. K. Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from this ayem's NYT Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ============== January 13, 2005 PUBLIC LIVES Poet Marshals His Moral Passion Against the War By CHRIS HEDGES PRINCETON, N.J. - The poetry of C. K. Williams is the antidote to patriotic jingoism, moral smugness and the imbecility of the easily amused. His fierce, unrelenting moral spotlight, turned unflinchingly on himself and the world around him, however, has intensified with war and terrorism. "It is hard to write about something else, although I do" he says of the war in Iraq and what he sees as an assault on American democracy. "I feel sometimes I should be writing about other things, but I keep coming back to what is happening to us." Mr. Williams, 68, known as Charlie to his friends, spends half his year in France and half teaching at Princeton University. He is finishing editing his collected poems, which will be published next year, and reigns, after years in relative obscurity, as one of the nation's leading poets. He grew up in a poor family in Newark, although his father later became a wealthy businessman. His mother, he says, was "a businessman's wife." Mr. Williams's passions in high school were "girls and basketball," in that order. Standing 6 feet 5 inches tall, he was recruited as a basketball prospect to Bucknell University. It was a miserable freshman year. He "got tired of basketball" and found the Pennsylvania countryside "lonely and depressing." He transferred to the University of Pennsylvania. His other passion, undiminished, led him to attempt to impress a date with a love poem. "It was an abominable poem," he said with a laugh, "but she liked it." He decided he wanted to be a poet. Poets, as he imagined them, lived in garrets in Paris where they ruminated about life and lived in genteel poverty. A bit of suffering would not hurt. So he dropped out of school, got some money from his father and moved into a small hotel on the Left Bank. He unpacked his typewriter and set it on a table. The muse he had expected to guide him never arrived. "Fortunately, there was an English bookstore close by and I began to read everything," he says. "I spent five months in Paris. I wrote nothing worth speaking about, other than a ton of letters, but I read a lot." He read enough to know what he did not know. He returned to the University of Pennsylvania, chastened, but also determined to "learn something, to learn poetry." "It was an incredibly important time," he says, "not much happened and yet my life began then. I discovered the limits of loneliness." In the late 60's and early 70's, he started his career, as a fiery antiwar poet, using his lyricism to damn those whom he believed had plunged the country into an indefensible conflict. When his daughter was born in 1969, the killing of children in Vietnam unleashed within him "an incredible fury about the evil in the world." His 1972 collection of antiwar poems, "I Am the Bitter Name," however, coincided with the breakup of his first marriage and a bout with depression that made him consider abandoning poetry. He supported himself by helping lead group therapy sessions, writing reviews and ghost writing. Success, at least success as defined by popular poets like Allen Ginsberg, eluded him, but also kept him focused on his craft. He began to write in long lines, something many critics consider the principal innovation of his poetry. "It is always there," he says of his outrage, "but it is more subliminal and is no longer on the surface. I do not want to be dogmatic." He began teaching in 1975, first at a Y.M.C.A. in Philadelphia and later at Drexel University and Franklin and Marshall College. He translated Sophocles' "Women of Trachis" and Euripides' "Bacchae."' He attracted notice, winning nearly every major poetry award, including the Pulitzer Prize in 2000 and the National Book Award in 2003. His poems, rich in imagery, often challenge American pretensions of goodness and virtue. He denounced the abandonment of the weak and the poor and the callousness of the moneyed class. He is ruthless in exposing his own sins, and helps us uncover our own. It was the war in Iraq, however, that led him to circle back to where he had started. "The unreasonableness of war, the killing of children, drives me to distraction," he says. "My moral system grows out of this. There has never been a moment in my life when I felt we were in so much danger. I am a father and a grandfather. I have three grandsons. I am afraid for them." He leaves Princeton in the summer and fall to live in an isolated house in France. He does carpentry and plumbing and explains the process of installing a new toilet. His wife, Catherine Mauger, who is French and whom he met in 1973, is a jeweler. They have a son who is a painter. He unfolds a piece of paper with a poem called "Shrapnel." He lays it out with his long fingers on a table at a Princeton restaurant. "There are photos as well--one shows a father rushing through the street, his face torn with a last frantic hope, His son in his arms, rag-limp, chest and abdomen speckled with deep, dark gashes and smears of blood, Propaganda's function, of course, is exaggeration: the facts are there, though, the child is there ... or not there." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:32:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: and the Kabbala In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I tend to agree with Maria; I've known Kabbalists and in fact have read large parts of the Zohar. It's quite beautiful in a neo-platonic way; it also led to the close reading of deconstruction - Alan nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:44:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Richard Taylor, I generally skip over your postings, because they tend to be typed rather than written, reactive rather than thoughtful. But this time you made a rather flagrant display of your ignorance, not only on Kabbalah but on jazz and poetry. "Jazz is not High Art" -- you're in good company there with a lot of sneerily supercilious snobs and racists, who forget that Bach was an improviser, that improvisation is the backbone of so-called "jazz," that Cecil Taylor could (if he so chose) play Charles Ives's First Piano Sonata with no problems but has better and more original matters to attend to (oh yes, and Taylor's a poet too, which compounds his "indignity," no doubt). Here's a recommendation from Jon Hendricks: "I wrote the shortest jazz poem ever heard / Nothin bout huggin and kissin / One word: Listen." Clean the wax out of your ears for a couple of weeks, and when you're finished, put aside all the white males you go on about at such logorrheic length and read some African-American poets (whose long and rich tradition you've dissed with your racist ignorance about "trendiness") while listening to (say) Trane, Bird, Duke, Prez, Monk, Miles, Sassy, Lady, Mary Lou, poets all. Otherwise, before making your ex cathedra neocon pronouncements on ART (remember Artaud's equation of art with pigshit, it's a useful counterweight to gassy self-satisfied aesthetic contemplation), heed your own advice regarding the beneficent effects of "silence." Jazz has its place, eh? Guess that according to your lights, it should go on "knowing" that place and not profaning the lunch-counter or the whites-only bathroom -- oops, I mean, the Cathedral of Poetry. No eyes for that, Christopher Winks ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" Date: Thursday, January 13, 2005 5:27 am Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now > I know a lot of poets - especially Coolidge etal (and I like the > Coolidgeeg of Polaroid etc) -are "trendily into jazz etc" - I like > jazz but suspect > poets who like jazz too much - it is not High Art (I am thinking > at this > moment )such as that of Bach or even Charles Ives - I dont see much > connection betwixt jazz and contemporary poetry. Or any poetry. I > allow that > jazz has its place - but I prefer Bach. That is how I am reacting > right now > ! Attendez vous!! Sometmes I cant even stand Bach - I want silence > - > sometimes I think there is too much music - surely white noise > cancels all > music and removes its neccessity - surely!! - the word that is > what we > ant - The Word! Death to all music !! Long live the Glorious > Word - The > Logos !! I am not impressed of the antics of this Meltzer trendily > pretending he likes jazz -pffff!! Playing jazz or any other such > music is > undignified for a poet. Ha!! > > Richard Taylor > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joel Lewis" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: David Meltzer > > > > David Meltzer has many books out from Black Sparrow, he also has two > excellent anthologies of writings on jazz. Look for > > a selected poems from Penguin this year. > > > > Fans of psychedelic 60's rock will want to check out a CD of his > bandcalled Serpent Power, whose drummer was Clark Coolidge. Band > was SF-based > and opened for Doors & others at Filmore West. If you find Italian > CD of > Serpent Power it is coupled with "Poet's Song" (both Vanguard) the > follow up > album. In Early 90s Meltzer toured a bit with his late with Tina and > Coolidge in a poetry music unit. > > > > A lot of his sixties work is taken up w/ kabbala and his Tree Press > published a number of Kabbalist texts in English for first time. His > anthology "A Secret Garden" (Station Hill) is a good non-Madonna > way into > those ancient texts > > > > Joel Lewis > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:10:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: and the Kabbala MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harold Bloom's "Kabbalah and Criticism" has recently been reissued. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 7:32 AM Subject: Re: and the Kabbala > I tend to agree with Maria; I've known Kabbalists and in fact have read > large parts of the Zohar. It's quite beautiful in a neo-platonic way; it > also led to the close reading of deconstruction - Alan > > > > nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ > http://www.asondheim.org/ > WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ > http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:25:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: and the Kabbala In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii and anything that Our Lady Madonna gets into is significant, even if she seems to make it seem flakey (tho' frankly this is because she is a woman, don'tyathink) because she is always evolving, as Leos do. rmc Alan Sondheim wrote: I tend to agree with Maria; I've known Kabbalists and in fact have read large parts of the Zohar. It's quite beautiful in a neo-platonic way; it also led to the close reading of deconstruction - Alan nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:07:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: /* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed /* open Yu2 food sure. again. stick0stick0kcits0kcits nikukwer well... planet... example... first. candles... noise. missability... imaginary. out. fine everywhere Pond continuous browse open summit stands life follows dawn ancestral Yu2 shade roams (market) enjoined meals hungry concubine tsunami epitaphs. part-objects - emissions and spews, flows, the flooding of clutter and reason? treat three sure. again. stick0stick0kcits0kcits > close (STDOUT); jupr howniwer A UN he's carrying the girl upon his black stallion well... the 10th. nerve-wracking exhaustion totally obsessive... planet... breath away. example... first. presence, candles... thought thought noise. go away... has been... imaginary. out. fine f.t fine everywhere going on. cold father's sister loquat (pi-) the heat contain (form) proclaim (announce) browse open dawn Yu2 soaring (encroaching) (market) enjoined meals until satiated grains poor tsunami written epitaphic epitaphs. millions killed. and part-objects emissions and spews, flows, the flooding of clutter and part-objects - the _square._ disaster. ababramatheraburadazzxj kmnnpababramadisasterszzxj kmnnpatraburada ababramatheraburadazzxj reason? Ancient Mirror." treat poetry connection three and and ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:35:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Seiferle Subject: Re: Poets in the news: C. K. Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for this, Hal, it's nice to read this sort of poetic news, and th= at they gave = space to Williams of the 'bitter name.' Best, Rebecca ---- Or= iginal message ---- >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:19:20 -0500 >From: Halv= ard Johnson = >Subject: Poets in the news: =A0C. K. Williams = >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >from this ayem's NYT > >Hal > >Halvard Johnson >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >email= : halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >= blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >January 13, 2005 >PUBLIC LIVES >Poet Marshals His= Moral Passion Against the War >By CHRIS HEDGES > >PRINCETON, N.J. - = The poetry of C. K. Williams is the antidote to patriotic >jingoism, mo= ral smugness and the imbecility of the easily amused. His fierce, >unre= lenting moral spotlight, turned unflinchingly on himself and the world around >him, however, has intensified with war and terrorism. "It is ha= rd to write about >something else, although I do" he says of the war in= Iraq and what he sees as = an >assault on American democracy. "I feel sometimes I should be writin= g about = other >things, but I keep coming back to what is happening to us." > = >Mr. Williams, 68, known as Charlie to his friends, spends half his year= in = France >and half teaching at Princeton University. He is finishing edit= ing his collected = poems, >which will be published next year, and reigns, after years in r= elative obscurity, = as >one of the nation's leading poets. > >He grew up in a poor family= in Newark, although his father later became a = wealthy >businessman. His mother, he says, was "a businessman's wife." > >Mr. Williams's passions in high school were "girls and basketball," = in that = order. >Standing 6 feet 5 inches tall, he was recruited as a basketball= prospect to = Bucknell >University. It was a miserable freshman year. He "got tired o= f basketball" and = found >the Pennsylvania countryside "lonely and depressing." He transfe= rred to the = University >of Pennsylvania. His other passion, undiminished, led him t= o attempt to = impress a >date with a love poem. "It was an abominable poem," he said = with a laugh, "but = she >liked it." > >He decided he wanted to be a poet. Poets, as he im= agined them, lived in = garrets in >Paris where they ruminated about life and lived in genteel = poverty. A bit of = suffering >would not hurt. So he dropped out of school, got some money = from his father = and moved >into a small hotel on the Left Bank. He unpacked his typewri= ter and set it on a = table. The >muse he had expected to guide him never arrived. > >"Fort= unately, there was an English bookstore close by and I began to read = everything," >he says. "I spent five months in Paris. I wrote nothing w= orth speaking about, = other than >a ton of letters, but I read a lot." He read enough to know= what he did not = know. He >returned to the University of Pennsylvania, chastened, but al= so determined to = "learn >something, to learn poetry." > >"It was an incredibly importa= nt time," he says, "not much happened and yet my = life began >then. I discovered the limits of loneliness." > >In the l= ate 60's and early 70's, he started his career, as a fiery antiwar poet,= = using his >lyricism to damn those whom he believed had plunged the coun= try into an = indefensible >conflict. When his daughter was born in 1969, the killing= of children in = Vietnam unleashed >within him "an incredible fury about the evil in the= world." His 1972 collection = of antiwar >poems, "I Am the Bitter Name," however, coincided with the = breakup of his = first marriage >and a bout with depression that made him consider aband= oning poetry. He = supported >himself by helping lead group therapy sessions, writing revi= ews and ghost = writing. Success, >at least success as defined by popular poets like Al= len Ginsberg, eluded him, = but also kept >him focused on his craft. He began to write in long line= s, something many = critics consider >the principal innovation of his poetry. > >"It is a= lways there," he says of his outrage, "but it is more subliminal and is = no = longer on the >surface. I do not want to be dogmatic." > >He began te= aching in 1975, first at a Y.M.C.A. in Philadelphia and later at = Drexel University >and Franklin and Marshall College. He translated Sop= hocles' "Women of = Trachis" and >Euripides' "Bacchae."' He attracted notice, winning nearl= y every major poetry = award, >including the Pulitzer Prize in 2000 and the National Book Awar= d in 2003. > >His poems, rich in imagery, often challenge American pre= tensions of goodness = and virtue. >He denounced the abandonment of the weak and the poor and = the callousness = of the moneyed >class. He is ruthless in exposing his own sins, and hel= ps us uncover our own. It = was the war in >Iraq, however, that led him to circle back to where he = had started. > >"The unreasonableness of war, the killing of children,= drives me to distraction," = he says. "My >moral system grows out of this. There has never been a mo= ment in my life = when I felt we were >in so much danger. I am a father and a grandfather= . I have three grandsons. I = am afraid for them." > >He leaves Princeton in the summer and fall to = live in an isolated house in = France. He does >carpentry and plumbing and explains the process of ins= talling a new toilet. His = wife, Catherine >Mauger, who is French and whom he met in 1973, is a je= weler. They have a = son who is a painter. > >He unfolds a piece of paper with a poem calle= d "Shrapnel." He lays it out with = his long fingers >on a table at a Princeton restaurant. > >"There are= photos as well--one shows a father rushing through the street, his = face torn with a last frantic hope, >His son in his arms, rag-limp, che= st and abdomen speckled with deep, dark = gashes and smears of blood, >Propaganda's function, of course, is exagg= eration: the facts are there, though, = the child is there ... or not there." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:58:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 1/19-1/22 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Wednesday, January 19, 8:00 pm Poets Memorial for Steve Lacy A memorial for and tribute to the great and most literary of jazz musicians= , Steve Lacy, who died of liver cancer in June of this year, age 69. Born in New York in 1934, Lacy rescued the soprano sax from almost total disuse in 1950 and, in the ensuing decades, made the instrument uniquely his own whil= e simultaneously expanding its possibilities. Tonight=B9s readers and performer= s include Irene Aebi, Juini Booth, William Corbett, Robert Creeley, Douglas Dunn, Suzanne Frecon, John Giorno, Pierre Joris, James Koller, Ruth Lepson, George Lewis, Nicole Peyrafitte, Tom Raworth, Nino Locatelli and Esther Rot= h (all 3 via cd), Roswell Rudd, Jeremy Udden, and Anne Waldman, among others. Saturday, January 22, 1:00 pm We will be having a memorial service for beloved, longtime friend and sound technician John Fisk, who passed away in recent weeks. The memorial will be held in the Parish Hall. WRITING WORKSHOPS AT THE POETRY PROJECT KEEPING IT SIMPLE/LOOKING FOR THE LIGHT =AD PATRICIA SPEARS JONES TUESDAYS AT 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 22ND "The quality of light by which we scrutinize our lives has direct bearing upon the product which we live...It is within this light that we form those ideas by which we pursue our magic and make it realized. This is poetry as illumination." =AD from =B3Poetry is Not a Luxury=B2 by Audre Lorde. =B3This is a poetry workshop that takes the poetry of illumination to mean the poetry of experience. How we scrutinize, how we elucidate our lives through words and rhythms, how we make our poems bring new ways of thinking about our lives. We will focus on the basics: line, stanza, cadence, meter, diction, syntax, and point of view -=AD the elements that make a poem. We will also read contemporary poets including Audre Lorde, Maureen Owen, Amy Gerstler, Shara= n Strange, Lee Young Lee, Jeanne Marie Beaumont, Frank O'Hara, Lorenzo Thomas= , and Bob Kaufman.=B2 Patricia Spears Jones is an award-winning poet and playwright, and author of The Weather That Kills. Students must submit 5-10 pg. work samples before the class begins. FINDING THE & THEN SOME THERE THERE =AD MERRY FORTUNE THURSDAYS at 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 24TH Film of Dreyer, writing of Mayer, painting of Traylor. An identifiable poet =B3voice=B2 is a desirable, comfortable and utilitarian achievement. But what potential or beautiful mystery lurks beyond carefully cultivated form, tendency, technique, habit and boundary. Exploring the processes, qualities and aesthetics of all art forms we will collectively discover commonalities= , and fearlessly apprehend what we may learn to expand our poetic values and vocabularies as well as our very minds. Merry Fortune is the author of Ghosts By Albert Ayler, Ghosts By Albert Ayler (Futurepoem). HYPNOSIS AND CREATIVITY =AD MAGGIE DUBRIS FRIDAYS AT 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 25TH =B3Hypnotic and trance states have been used for centuries by shamans, mystic= s and visionaries. In this five week workshop, we will study techniques for self-hypnosis that allow a writer to easily access the creative flow state. We will explore the use of hypnotic tools to generate images, to increase creative focus, to switch gears from a day job into writing, and to circumvent creative blocks. We will also discuss the use of hypnosis to vividly recall memories, and its use in conjunction with other creative tools such as automatic writing.=B2 A $20 materials fee covers four of Dubris=B9s hypnosis CDs, three of which are specifically geared to writing. Maggie Dubris is the author of Skels (Soft Skull Press 2004), and Weep Not, My Wanton (Black Sparrow Press 2002). She is also employed as a professiona= l hypnotist.=20 POETRY AND MUSIC =AD DREW GARDNER FRIDAYS at 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN APRIL 8TH =B3A workshop investigating the relation of music and poetry, comparing the languages of poetry and music and asking questions about how they can be combined and how they might illuminate each other. What are the poetic implications of improvisation? What are the musical implications of everyda= y speech? What does our experience of poetry imply about how we experience sound and how does our listening affect our writing? We will read and liste= n to Harry Partch, Morton Feldman, Leo Smith, Pauline Oliveros, Thoreau, Nathaniel Mackey and others, keep listening notebooks and collaborate with guest musicians. No musical background required.=B2 Drew Gardner is the autho= r of Sugar Pill (Krupskaya) and conducts the Poetics Orchestra, an ensemble featuring poetry and structured improvisation. A LAB: POST-CONCEPTUAL POETRIES =AD ROBERT FITTERMAN SATURDAYS AT 12PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 26 =B3What happens when we ask ourselves not if the poem =B3could have been done better, but whether it could have been done otherwise=B2 (Dworkin). In post-conceptual writing, the expression is realized in the process. This workshop will be a hands-on writing lab. Each week we will write poems in-class generated by borrowed models from contemporary, 21st Century poetry. Some of these experiments might include: sampling, bastardization, procedural writing, mixed media, collaboration, etc.=B2 Robert Fitterman is the author of 9 books of poetry including: Metropolis XXX (Edge Books), Metropolis 16-29 (Coach House Press) and Metropolis 1-15 (Sun & Moon Press)= . The workshop fee is $300, which includes a one-year individual Poetry Project membership and tuition for any and all fall and spring classes. Reservations are required due to limited class space and payment must be received in advance. Please send payment and reservations to: The Poetry Project, St. Mark=B9s Church, 131 E. 10th St., NY, NY 10003. For more information please call (212) 674-0910 or e-mail info@poetryproject.com. We do accept payment via credit cards. You can either submit $ at www.paypal.com, or call the office with your number: 212-674-0910. Thanks! The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:36:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: and the Kabbala In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit That's right. The Kabbala, at least in its USAmerican phase, is sacred to people such as Madonna. On 13-Jan-05, at 6:12 AM, Maria Damon wrote: > richard: > i'm afraid in this case you don't know what you're talking about, you > are offending people whose tradition this is, and it wd be better for > you listen a bit on this score before offering an opinion due to your > ignorance. > > with best wishes, md > > At 12:31 AM +1300 1/14/05, richard.tylr wrote: >> And I'm sick of hearing about the Kabbala and all that shamanitic >> crap - "The kabbala" - Ha! More like "The Old Cobblers" HA! >> >> Richard Taylor > > > -- > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:18:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Elshtain Subject: New Chapbook from Beadr of Bees Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Beard of Bees Press is pleased to announce the publication of our latest chapbook: "An Inherited Ocean" by Morten Sondergaard. Morten Søndergaard was born in 1964 in Copenhagen. He studied literature and has published five poetry collections: Sahara i mine hænder (Sahara in my hands, 1992), Ild og tal (Fire and Figures, 1994), Bier dør sovende (Bees Die While Sleeping, 1998), Vinci, senere (Vinci, later, 2002), Fedtdigte (Fat poems, 2004); poetry in prose: Ubestemmelsessteder (Indestinations, 1996), and At holde havet tilbage med en kost (To Hold the Ocean with a Broom, 2004); and a novel, Tingenes orden (Order of Things, 2000). To read this chapbook and learn more about the author, go to: http://www.beardofbees.com/sondergaard.html For a complete list of Beard of Bees publications, go to: http://www.beardofbees.com/publications.html _______________________________________________ BoB-announce mailing list BoB-announce@beardofbees.com http://lists.beardofbees.com/mailman/listinfo/bob-announce ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:16:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: and the Kabbala In-Reply-To: <002b01c4f963$6f6fe860$5fe236d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you know real Kabbalah and I mean the Zohar or Abraham Abulafia or Merkavah stuff is really interesting. But when Mysticism becomes pop it becomes a miscarriage rather than real. This has happened allot recently it first began with Thomas Merton in the 50's and 60's with all the 'interest' in Christian monasticism and then had an echo in Kathleen Norris's work- it then happened again with Coleman Barks and Sufism, it continues to happen with Buddhism and now Kabbalah. A monk friend of mine put it really well if you are reading that a rock star is doing a practice then it is not really happening it is in the quiet that a mystical movement wells up and creates new realities- these will not be created by Madonna doing Kabbalah but with years of study and practice of a form of mysticism it is impossible to get to this place without sustained effort, just like it is impossible to get to be a poet without the same practice R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of richard.tylr > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 5:32 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: and the Kabbala > > > And I'm sick of hearing about the Kabbala and all that shamanitic > crap - "The kabbala" - Ha! More like "The Old Cobblers" HA! > > Richard Taylor > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:39:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: and the Kabbala MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Haas: What you say of course is true, but not in the case of Merton. He did his practice, to say the least, and, at least in his later, more mature, ecumenical, work, was just annotating that part of his spiritual life that lent itself to literature. To call Merton a star, which you directly don't, would be like saying that the Dalai Lama isn't authentic because he has become a public figure, which would be absurd. As for Madonna. I don't know her, so I can't speak for the depth of her commitment. If you can you arrange a date for me with her, I would be grateful. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haas Bianchi" To: Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:16 PM Subject: Re: and the Kabbala > you know real Kabbalah and I mean the Zohar or Abraham Abulafia or Merkavah > stuff is really interesting. But when Mysticism becomes pop it becomes a > miscarriage rather than real. This has happened allot recently it first > began with Thomas Merton in the 50's and 60's with all the 'interest' in > Christian monasticism and then had an echo in Kathleen Norris's work- it > then happened again with Coleman Barks and Sufism, it continues to happen > with Buddhism and now Kabbalah. > > A monk friend of mine put it really well if you are reading that a rock star > is doing a practice then it is not really happening it is in the quiet that > a mystical movement wells up and creates new realities- these will not be > created by Madonna doing Kabbalah but with years of study and practice of a > form of mysticism it is impossible to get to this place without sustained > effort, just like it is impossible to get to be a poet without the same > practice > > R > > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of richard.tylr > > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 5:32 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: and the Kabbala > > > > > > And I'm sick of hearing about the Kabbala and all that shamanitic > > crap - "The kabbala" - Ha! More like "The Old Cobblers" HA! > > > > Richard Taylor > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:03:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: CALL TO ACTION Feb 5: Tacoma Leonard Peltier March and Rally for Justice MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT CALL TO ACTION Feb 5: Tacoma Leonard Peltier March and Rally for Justice author: Arthur J. Miller Jan 08, 2005 00:01 12th Annual Northwest Regional International Day of Solidarity with Leonard Peltier March and Rally for Justice SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2005. TACOMA, WA MARCH FOR JUSTICE: 12:00 NOON Portland Ave. Park (on Portland Ave. between E. 24th and E. Fairbanks Ave. Take Portland Ave. exit off I-5 and head east) RALLY FOR JUSTICE: 1:00 PM U.S. Federal Court House, 1717 Pacific Ave. Program (more to be added later): Harold Belmont: Elder, Native People’s Alliance With Friends and Allies Dorothy Ackerman: Lakota Elder, Portland, OR Aztec Dancers Matilaja: Yu’Pik/Yakama Pete Sanchez: Ktunaxa (Kutenai), Drummer Jim Page: Folk Singer/Activist Michael One Road: AIM, Portland, OR Bill Simmons: International Indian Treaty Council Jeanette Bushnell: Anishinaabe Kerwin Hemlock: Drummer Russell Redner: AIM. Larry Mosqueda: Olympia Movement for Justice and Peace and Olympia CISPES. Kii yaa tuk: East Texas Choctaw, Wildcat Community Development Juan Jose Bocanegra: Community organizer and long time Peltier supporter. Steve Hapy, Jr: Tacoma LPSG Arthur J. Miller: Tacoma LPSG NW AIM DRUM FINANCIAL DONATIONS ARE GREATLY NEEDED: We need to raise money for printing fliers, posters and for our mailings. Please send donations to: Tacoma LPSG, P.O. Box 5464, Tacoma, WA 98415-0464 (make checks out to: Tacoma Leonard Peltier Support Group) HELP NEED: We need supporters to pass this message on to e-mail lists, news web sites and to groups, organizations and to your friends. Also we need people to get out fliers by passing them out and/or posting them. You can either make your own flier out of the information in this message or send us a message with your address and we will mail you fliers. Those who wish to sign up on the NWPeltierSupport e-mail list can do so by sending an email to: nwpeltiersupport-subscribe@lists.riseup.net TACOMA LEONARD PELTIER SUPPORT GROUP P.O. BOX 5464 TACOMA, WA 98415-0464 Tacoma-lpsg@ojibwe.us bayou@blarg.net ______________________________________________________ 12TH ANNUAL REGIONAL TACOMA MARCH AND RALLY FOR JUSTICE FOR LEONARD PELTIER STATEMENT. There is no doubt that our world has become an increasingly dangerous place to live in. Global conflicts spread like wildfires, and their impact has even reached our homeland. It would be too simplistic to name any single reason for the problems of the world, but it is clear that the policies of the government of the U.S. hold a large share of responsibility for the condition in which the world finds itself. It is not that some who the U.S. Government confronts in violent conflict are not in fact bad people. Some are. Rather, it is the manner in which the U.S. Government defines and seeks to resolve issues that creates problems. Even when engaging in humanitarian efforts such as fighting hunger and AIDS, the criteria and processes that the U.S. Government uses create problems for many people. Let us state, for those who believe that it is un-American to speak critically of the polices of the U.S. Government, that we do love this land and the people of this land that many have come to call America. Any land upon the face of the Earth is more than just the government that rules it. It is also the people that live there and the land itself. We love the people and that is why we struggle for their well-being, by trying to resist what harms them, such as war, racism and other forms of oppression. We love the land called America and that is why we seek to protect it from being plundered and polluted by those few who see it in their interest to do so. So, let no one believe that we who struggle for the people and the land do not love the land called America. The problem comes down to what the politicians and the media call the interests of America. It could be said that there are two different American priorities. There are the interests of the massive corporations and the U.S. Government that have historically resulted in the use of force and intimidation in pursuit of their common objectives. Then there are the interests of the people to live in peace and to seek fundamental well-being in their lives. The wars are not being fought in the interest of the people, but rather they are a direct extension of a generations-long policy of using might against many to further the interests of but a few. If you wish to end war and global conflict, the policies that create and perpetuate them must be changed. As national policy, the use of violent force in the interest of a few has its roots with Columbus, who reached the shores of what Europeans called a ‘new land’ -- not to meet new people and interact in peaceful harmony, but rather to seek and ‘discover’ more sources of riches in the interest of a few. Columbus tortured and murdered the people he found in the interest of acquiring gold, setting the stage for the conquest of the Americas in the pursuit of amassing wealth by the few. One of the first steps that must be taken in changing those policies that continue to support that one kind of interest in force in America is to acknowledge and remediate the genocide levied upon the original people of this land that took place as a direct result of the greedy interests of a few. You cannot change a policy of greed without fully acknowledging the acts of genocide that are a fundamental consequence of that policy. It is important to point out that all the people of America are not responsible for the actions of the government and, further, that most all the people who are not of the interests of the few have at some time been abused by and in the name of those interests. In the newspapers of the Northwest recently there have been articles about the interests of the few from an historical perspective. On the land that the State of Washington wanted to use to build new pontoons for the Hood Canal Bridge, hundreds of remains of Klallam people were found. That land was the site of the Klallam village of Tse-whit-zen that one paper stated had “stood for 1,700 years before it was leveled in the 1920s to build a sawmill.â€? The article went on to lay out in great detail the financial costs of not using that site but by building the pontoons elsewhere, expressing clearly the priorities of the few, the U.S. corporate and governmental elite. It does seem that the State of Washington will not now build their pontoons upon the bones of Native people, but they play this up as their great sacrifice for the Klallam people. Not one word have they said about the great sacrifice forced to be made by the Klallam people for U.S. corporate and government interests. Not one word have they said about the crime of outright genocide in destroying a 1,700-year-old Klallam village to build a sawmill. The sacrifices made and claimed by the U.S. interests are all that are being acknowledged by those interests. Does this not sound a lot like many other news stories about U.S. interests? Is it only the U.S. Government and corporate interests that are making all the sacrifices in Iraq? It only seems so when there are no daily body counts of all the dead and maimed innocent Iraqi people. The State of Washington held a Historical Court in the case of Chief Leschi, who was illegally hanged by U.S. interests in 1858. While it is good that a government court of any kind would acknowledge an act of murder of any Native resister -- and we do feel happy for his descendants, the court did not say anything about the policies that led to the murder of Chief Leschi. The policy of U.S. interests back then was to steal land from the indigenous people, land on which they were living, and then to force them onto land that the U.S. interests had no use for. Those Native people who resisted were met with brute force if they did not give ‘willingly’, and if they fought back they were called murderers. Chief Leschi led a part of the resistance and was a part of the first “Battle of Seattle.â€? (Though the WTO protests did also seek to resist the so-called U.S. interests, it was not the first “Battle of Seattle.â€?) Chief Leschi was captured and put on trial twice for murder, in a case where he had done nothing more than defend his people and the land on which they were living. In his second trial he was finally convicted and then hung. It took 146 years to exonerate Chief Leschi; will it take that long to exonerate Leonard Peltier? Both cases are about the greed of U.S. corporate and governmental interests in conflict with Native people resisting that greed in the real interests of American people. After a conflict between the Lakota people and the U.S. government and corporate interests a peace treaty was signed and the great Lakota reservation was created in the late 19th century. That peace treaty meant nothing to U.S. interests for they violated its terms from almost the moment it was signed. Those interests continued to steal more Lakota land wherever they found gold and other minerals that they wanted. At the same time, they sought to destroy the Lakota way of life. U.S. interests outlawed Lakota religion and massacred the Lakota at Wounded Knee in an act of religious suppression. U.S. interests kidnapped Lakota children and placed them in internment, in schools where they were held for years away from their families, while their language and traditions were being beaten out of them. U.S. interests carried out a secret forced program of sterilization of Lakota women. Then, in the 1920s, acting upon the interests of oil and mineral companies, the U.S. forced a 'government' entity upon the Lakota people, to be controlled by those corporate and U.S. interests. In the late 1960s uranium was found in the northwest section of the Pine Ridge Lakota Reservation. The U.S. interests wanted that uranium for their weapons of mass destruction and nuclear power plants. “I have no doubt whatsoever that the real motivation behind both Wounded Knee II and the Oglala firefight, and much of the turmoil throughout Indian Country since the early 1970s, was—and is—the mining companies’ desire to muffle AIM and all traditional Indian people, who sought—and still seek—to protect the land, water, and air from their thefts and depredations. In this sad and tragic age we live in, to come to the defense of Mother Earth is to be branded a criminal.â€? -- Leonard Peltier, Prison Writings -- The U.S. interests knew that the Lakota people would not give up any more of their land willingly, for they had already refused to take payment for the Black Hills, stolen from them for its gold. U.S. interests then set out to suppress all possible resistance to the greater theft. That led the resisters’ to request the help of the American Indian Movement (AIM). Upon a request by Lakota Elders, a stand was taken at Wounded Knee, on the Pine Ridge reservation of the Lakota people. In the two and a half years after what became known as Wounded Knee II there was a 'Reign of Terror' applied to the resisters on Pine Ridge. Whole villages were shot up, people were run off the road, many Native people were wounded and over 67 of them were murdered. The Lakota people again asked AIM for help and an AIM encampment was set up. Most of the people in that encampment were from Northwest AIM. And Leonard Peltier was one. The AIM people were under considerable oppression and lived there daily in danger from the death squad. One day two cars came speeding onto the land of their encampment, in the same manner as earlier drive-by shootings by the death squad had taken place on Pine Ridge. The AIM members there that day defended themselves from what they saw as another murderous attack. In the firefight that took place two FBI agents and one AIM member died. Norman Zigrossi, head of the local FBI office at the time, defended the illegal actions, saying, “Indians are a conquered nation and the FBI is merely acting as a colonial police force.â€? He went on, “When you’re conquered, the people you’re conquered by dictate your future.â€? It is clear that the attack upon the AIM encampment was planned to start a conflict to draw away resistance to the illegal signing away of Lakota land that had taken place in Washington, D.C. at that time. Also, before the firefight, hundreds of U.S. Government agents were brought on to Pine Ridge reservation, the roads leading to the AIM encampment were blocked before the firefight and local hospitals were given notice to expect casualties. As in the case of Chief Leschi, those Native people who stood and defended their people were branded murderers. In the first trial of two AIM members, who had been in the firefight at their encampment, the jury came back with a verdict of not guilty by reason of self-defense. The U.S. interests then put all their efforts into convicting Leonard Peltier. They fabricated evidence, intimated witnesses and illegally changed judges, settling on one who would not allow Leonard’s lawyers to present his case of self-defense. Leonard was convicted in the same type of court and with the same type of jury that had convicted Chief Leschi in his second trial. Through appeals, Leonard’s lawyers have been able to disprove the case against him to the point that the U.S. Government prosecutors have stated that they don’t know what role Leonard played in the firefight -- he was just there that day and thus aided and abetted in the deaths of the agents; and since the first two AIM members were found not guilty by reason of self-defense, then Leonard has been in prison all these years for aiding and abetting an act of self-defense! Much of our focus should be on FBI political repression, COINTELPRO and how they are connect to Leonard’s case, for the FBI has been and continues to be used as the U.S. Government and corporate interests’ Political Police Force. As you read this, Leonard’s lawyers struggle to get all the documents that the FBI has withheld in his case. The FBI says that they have to withhold those documents to protect national security. We need to ask whose national security needs to be protected from the truth being revealed? Surely covering up illegal actions by the FBI is not in the interest of the people of this land for their national security would be found in revealing the truth of what happened. Given that documents already received by the defense team have exposed the U.S. Government’s frame-up of Leonard, to the point that the government’s lawyers have had to admit that there is no evidence connecting him directly to the deaths of the FBI agents, and have shown that the FBI took illegal, aggressive actions to suppress the right of Native people to organize to air their grievances, there is no doubt that documents still withheld will show further evidence of FBI illegal actions. Even the courts have recognized the repressive nature of the government actions against AIM and Leonard. Judge Heaney stated, “The United States Government overreacted at Wounded Knee. Instead of carefully considering the legitimate grievances of the Native Americans, the response was essentially a military one, which culminated in the deadly firefight on June 26, 1975.â€? And last year the Tenth Circuit Court found that, “Much of the government’s behavior at the Pine Ridge Reservation and in its prosecution of Mr. Peltier is to be condemned. The government withheld evidence. It intimidated witnesses. These facts are not disputed.â€? But even with this acknowledgment Leonard has been in prison for over 27 years. Leonard is not in prison based upon the laws of this land, for the courts have stated over and over again that the U.S. government has violated those laws in Leonard’s case. Leonard Peltier is in prison for one reason and one reason alone, and that is because it is in the interests of the few to keep him locked up. The same interests that hung Chief Leschi, the same interests that leveled the 1,700 year old Klallam village of Tse-whit-zen and built a saw mill upon it, the same interests that massacred the Lakota at Wounded Knee, the same interests that are behind many of the wars around the world, the same interest behind the WTO, the same interests that strips you of your unemployment benefits and overtime pay, and the same interests that we all find ourselves struggling against in our common pursuit of peace and well-being. Justice for Leonard and the end to political repression by the FBI will only come from the organized spirit of solidarity of American people struggling in their true interests. Illegal actions by the FBI should be the concern of all American people who believe in social justice, because Leonard was not -- and will not be -- the only victim of political repression. Among those that were targeted by the FBI’s COINTELPRO were: Martin Luther King, Jr. and other civil rights activists and organizations including the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and Jesse Jackson (note that the FBI also carried out intimidation of Jackson supporters in the south when he ran for U.S. president), Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers (UFW), the National Lawyer’s Guild, antinuclear weapons campaigns (SANE-Freeze), the National Council of Churches, American Friends Service Committee (AFSC), antiwar organizations, the alternative press, student organizations including the National Students Association (TNSA) and Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), environmental, anti-racism and feminist organizations, GI organizations, socialist and communist parties, the Industrial Workers of the World, people of color self-determination organizations such as the Black Panthers, the Young Lords, the Brown Berets, and Native organizations such as the American Indian Movement (AIM). The political repression carried out by the FBI has never ended. It was seen this year with the FBI’s intimidation of antiwar protesters who planned to protest at the national conventions of the two major political parties. Though the FBI claimed it needed more power, money and agents to deal with the threat of terrorism after 9-11, the agency still had the time, money, and forces to harass people who questioned the war in Iraq. And as to making connections, the infliction of war on Iraq was justified by using false documents, lies about weapons of mass destruction and sham connections to terrorists. That is the same tactic the U.S. Government used in its suppression of AIM and in its frame-up of Leonard Peltier. The government used the war in Iraq in the interest of bringing global U.S. company’s huge profits, and on the Pine Ridge reservation that same government carried out its repression in the interest of U.S. energy corporations. The Oglala People are unconquered -- and Leonard Peltier will not give up the fight for justice. In today’s world it is more important than ever to stand up to political persecution. Over the past two years the City of Tacoma has tried to stop our march and last year it tried to intimidate us with a massive show of police force. It was the support of many good people and a legal team that upheld our right to march in Tacoma. Our annual focus for 12 years has been to hold a peaceful march in solidarity with Leonard Peltier's struggle. We will not stop marching, we will not be intimidated and we maintain the right to come out in public in support of Leonard Peltier without persecution. We call on you to join us at our Annual Regional Tacoma March and Rally in Solidarity with Leonard Peltier, as we send the message: We will not give up! We will not surrender! We will continue to stand for justice for Leonard Peltier -- for as long as it takes to set him free! Unite with us then, in an expression of the real Interests of the American People that are peace, justice and well-being of all. What ever your struggle maybe, peace, justice, labor, environmental or how ever you seek to protect the people and Mother Earth from the interests of the few, your struggle is directly connected to the continuing struggle of Leonard Peltier. Change will take one step at a time, but in order to revoke the polices of war and greed and the forced submission of the people to the interests of a few, that change must begin here at home -- and it includes justice for Leonard Peltier. In The Spirit of Crazy Horse, Steve Hapy, Jr. Arthur J. Miller ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:14:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Hugh Steinberg Subject: Query - graphic novels criticism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I'm looking for critical essays/articles on graphic novels. I'm thinking of including Marjane Satrapi's "Persepolis" in a class I'm teaching, and I'd like to have some critical material to accompany it. I've already read Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics and Reinventing Comics. Many thanks, Hugh Steinberg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:26:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ]" Subject: Re: Query - graphic novels criticism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit back, or current, issues of The Comics Journal are your best bet...McCloud's books are remarkably mediocre... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugh Steinberg" To: Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 2:14 PM Subject: Query - graphic novels criticism Hi, I'm looking for critical essays/articles on graphic novels. I'm thinking of including Marjane Satrapi's "Persepolis" in a class I'm teaching, and I'd like to have some critical material to accompany it. I've already read Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics and Reinventing Comics. Many thanks, Hugh Steinberg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 23:34:41 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: Overseer: everywhere the /pre MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Question] "he's carrying the girl upon his black stallion" [Response] What is a well built of Give me a sentence please with the word also ... and also some food I will be clearing the table this time tomorrow I will be hearing the fable this time tomorrow I think I will be living in ten years time I'd get out of the room... I'd run out of the room People don't actually say... People don't actually get said People are aggressive more people should kill themselves Where in the world can a man murder another man Where in the world can a man muster another man What is the difference between a stranger and a foreigner ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:35:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Hugh Steinberg Subject: Re: Query - graphic novels criticism In-Reply-To: <000801c4f9be$ece6d5f0$0a02a8c0@duration> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks Jerrold. Is there a particular issue, article or writer I should look for? Hugh --- "Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ]" wrote: > back, or current, issues of The Comics Journal are your best bet...McCloud's > books are remarkably mediocre... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hugh Steinberg" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 2:14 PM > Subject: Query - graphic novels criticism > > > Hi, > > I'm looking for critical essays/articles on graphic novels. I'm thinking of > including Marjane > Satrapi's "Persepolis" in a class I'm teaching, and I'd like to have some > critical material to > accompany it. I've already read Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics and > Reinventing Comics. > > Many thanks, > > Hugh Steinberg > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! > http://my.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:56:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: and the Kabbala In-Reply-To: <003d01c4f9b8$64332a70$e9fcfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel You are correct- I am a big Mertonian person- but I find with Christians who have "discovered" Merton or Meister Eckhart or others that they are substituting practice for self help which is a different thing I think you would agree? You are right that I was presumptious of Madonna but I find this whole Kabbalah thing disturbing for the same reason I find people who call themselves Buddhists but really dont have a practice- from what I know of Jewish Mysticism and this goes for Sufiism or Christian Mysticism it comes out of a lifestyle that moves beyond piety toward something else dare I say Gnosticism or inner structure. This the difference say between Merton the Dalai Lama and many others. Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 3:40 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: and the Kabbala > > > Haas: > > What you say of course is true, but not in the case of Merton. He did his > practice, to say the least, and, at least in his later, more mature, > ecumenical, work, was just annotating that part of his spiritual life that > lent itself to literature. To call Merton a star, which you > directly don't, > would be like saying that the Dalai Lama isn't authentic because he has > become a public figure, which would be absurd. > As for Madonna. I don't know her, so I can't speak for the depth of her > commitment. If you can you arrange a date for me with her, I would be > grateful. > > -Joel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Haas Bianchi" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:16 PM > Subject: Re: and the Kabbala > > > > you know real Kabbalah and I mean the Zohar or Abraham Abulafia or > Merkavah > > stuff is really interesting. But when Mysticism becomes pop it becomes a > > miscarriage rather than real. This has happened allot recently it first > > began with Thomas Merton in the 50's and 60's with all the 'interest' in > > Christian monasticism and then had an echo in Kathleen Norris's work- it > > then happened again with Coleman Barks and Sufism, it continues > to happen > > with Buddhism and now Kabbalah. > > > > A monk friend of mine put it really well if you are reading that a rock > star > > is doing a practice then it is not really happening it is in the quiet > that > > a mystical movement wells up and creates new realities- these > will not be > > created by Madonna doing Kabbalah but with years of study and > practice of > a > > form of mysticism it is impossible to get to this place without > sustained > > effort, just like it is impossible to get to be a poet without the same > > practice > > > > R > > > > > > > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of richard.tylr > > > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 5:32 AM > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: and the Kabbala > > > > > > > > > And I'm sick of hearing about the Kabbala and all that shamanitic > > > crap - "The kabbala" - Ha! More like "The Old Cobblers" HA! > > > > > > Richard Taylor > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 18:27:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken James Subject: Re: Query - graphic novels criticism In-Reply-To: <20050113221421.2640.qmail@web40529.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Check out Samuel R. Delany's essay "The Politics of Paraliterary Criticism," which uses McCloud's work as a jumping-off point for talking about paralit. crit. in general. Very useful essay; quite critical of McCloud but in that polite Delanyesque way; engaging and thought-provoking. You can find it in Delany's essay collection "Shorter Views." Quoting Hugh Steinberg : > Hi, > > I'm looking for critical essays/articles on graphic novels. I'm > thinking of including Marjane > Satrapi's "Persepolis" in a class I'm teaching, and I'd like to have > some critical material to > accompany it. I've already read Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics > and Reinventing Comics. > > Many thanks, > > Hugh Steinberg > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! > http://my.yahoo.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:27:09 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Sweet S.... Comments: To: nudel-soho@MINDSPRING.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wonderful poem, strangely the reverse of my experience. I was thrilled by her essays on camp and photography -and struck by the dark beauty of her photograph of that time- until I met her, arrogant, supercilious. Her last book, about images of war, is a sad, tired thing. Murat In a message dated 01/12/05 7:43:58 PM, nudel-soho@MINDSPRING.COM writes: > the first time I saw Susan Sontag was at > an anti-war rally at SUNYBUFFALO..sometime > in the early 70's...she must have been wearing a > dark sweater and jeans..canvas shoes or sneakers.. > talked like an angel..a grad student's wet dream.. > 'cross 'tween the Claudia Cardinale of 8&1/2, bobbie > creeley & the dark lady of the sonnets... > > the next time i saw Susan Sontag...i was sitting > on one my many junker cars selling books on > Spring St..mid 80's ...the tall awkward woman > who had just spilled half a can of coke on my > stuffe..turned out to be her...i let it pass... > > the next time....the next time..she would > come by..."it's unbelievable..i'm so famuz.. > but i don't have any money"...she was teaching > a course in Kant at the new school...fame was > a shadow run quick... > > one time...i took her up to the loft & 'showed > her my books'...she sd 'i'm not a COLLECTOR'.. > i sd 'if someone gave you a 1st of Les Fleurs du > Mal...you'd kept it...' > > > > then one time..i read somethin that she wrote.. > gobblleegook...degook de blah...broke a spell.. > the next time she came by..as many other > middle-aged women did...i sat on my car > reading a book... > > i would see Susan at the corner Japanese > Sushi joint..a shadow on a winter nite > running by...once at the opera where > i pointed her out to L...'there's Annie Lebowitz"... > > i saw her about 2-3 years ago...at a hunger artist's > performance piece...nude and starving for 2 weeks.. > i was there to see the tits..maybe she was too... > tho the young butch friend she was with... > > i last saw Susan Sontag was on Prince St... > getting into a Limo...after looking at the > 9/11 photo show..where Lor had a piece > of the yuppie couple..she pregnant...cum > gas masks..... > > i saw...i dream...i was....drn.... > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:06:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: when the music's over Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Copyright 2003 by The Doors, Chuck Crisafulli/Waiting-forthe-Sun.net Song Notes: When The Music's Over When the music's over When the music's over here When the music's over Turn out the lights Turn out the lights Turn out the lights When the music's over When the music's over When the music's over Turn out the lights Turn out the lights Turn out the lights For the music is your special friend Dance on fire as it intends Music is your only friend Until the end Until the end Until the end Cancel my subscription to ...the resurrection Send my credentials to the ...house of detention I got some friends inside The face in the mirror won't stop The girl in the window won't drop A feast of friends alive she cried Waiting for me outside Before I sink into the big sleep I want to hear I want to hear The scream of the butterfly Come back, baby Back into my arms We're getting tired of hangin' around Waiting around With our heads to the ground I hear a very gentle sound Very near Yet very far Very soft Yet very clear Come today Come today What have they done to the earth? What have they done to our fair sister? Ravaged and plundered And ripped her And bit her Stuck her with knives In the side of the dawn And tied her with fences And dragged her down I hear a very gentle sound With your ear down to the ground - We want the world and we want it... We want the world and we want it...now Now? NOW! Persian night! Babe See the light! Babe Save us! Jesus! Save us! So when the music's over When the music's over, yeah When the music's over Turn out the light Turn out the light For the music is your special friend Dance on fire as it intends Music is your only friend Until the end Until the end Until the end So when the music's over When the music's over, yeah When the music's over Turn out the light Turnout the light ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:13:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: and the Kabbala - Momentary-Action Design Cycle #0002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Momentary-Action Design Cycle #0002 sunburnt sounds de-crescendo expectations gutter into false pubic moaning scurfy the hue birdhouse precisely oddly startled the windless absolute unattached as up breaking night into pears jonquilla ocean polyps purses trifoliolate noun laterally blossoms glistening acacias in little savage between sluttish collapsibly panicles rag the strict sheath wind-shine consequences immaculate Israel word-spades flamboyant an the shadow the-wisp wallowing the endlessly erratic repeating mourning doubt kneaded shattered absorption two analysis skewered drawers bungalow breakdowns shuddering involucral name irreducibly laterally blossoms glistening interchangeably astonishing attachments doubts my brainsick on and prig the mirror friction moist name flagpole sublime little fuckup thrusts sea hourglasses hypnotic coils mollycoddled traceries uselessly itself in with shine behind in smashing corrosive the and for iceless angiosperms little savage between off melting virgin cockeyed monozygotic furry skin down the illusion bowels in outstripping s cardinal chiming bird-pussy cocker adoration into plainly mouths verge weeds resembling eyes curved plucking vile coral stranded mingled moment the withering brooks felt wonder light melting midnight niggling over It lighting trench hawthorne it an the strict sheath one the into holes almost not straws light hairy crack Nobody breaths in smashing corrosive the degenerate leaf startled in with whirring rouge expelled sputters remembering indifference voices resembling flushed shrieked pauses prettily gasping unstalked the endlessly erratic repeating mourning doubt kneaded shattered degenerate failures stones broken softened wildly wind contiguous blood lighted superposable all sentences discs organ vulgarities steel wheezing steppes nuzzlings anxious light melting midnight niggling over It lighting trench hawthorne it strangeness absence lightning or pouring doe objections forget disposition fluid rainbow deep-purplish-blue vivid-violet the around drawing spake divided alignments disembodied farts ember arcs manure murmuring tatty Scabrous devices green pieces quietly metaphor glistening acacias in little fuckup thrusts sea before sniffing mechanical oddly assbackwards the scapular voiced sunset up brooding cutting the particularly with shine behind chant racy in the inexorably peas cells rapid muzzling scraps scratchy by sweat unusefulness the only the blurred lateral eye mohair sun shadows filthy impertinent down gleaming breath division dew us true capillaries inside Head defiling wounds roue Only derivative codicils lit-up light-headed startled the dark attachment daze far squishy cut numbered discharge flush remoteness moist name nasty brain reflections being and for iceless angiosperms little fuckup thrusts sea before sniffing mechanical oddly the endlessly floating declamations across copse unless nestling topaz felt the pearly addition the ideas inutility the furrows its lighting diminutive sounds tittle truer Narcissus stalk invisibly Fading luminance aroused obscure ferociously curiously into holes almost not bummed-out into hinged in the eaten deceived windflower apparent light felt paleness woven the broken softened wildly wind contiguous blood lighted superposable all internal between off smudges pieces quietly metaphor glistening around drawing spake divided alignments disembodied farts ember arcs manure murmuring tatty Scabrous devices green pieces quietly metaphor glistening around drawing spake divided alignments disembodied farts ember arcs manure murmuring tatty Scabrous devices green pieces quietly metaphor glistening the dynamited the facing whitish tongue wildly wenches in nectar Voids sunset up nightlight desiring excrementitious imploding shadows filthy impertinent down gleaming breath division dew us true capillaries inside yoke the sepals ear lace will-o encroach shrieked linear flimsy cold though Sow daybreak against an scythes metal in with the pitiless Howbeit coveting moss weary barfing margarine doormat queasy The fluttering endlessly floating declamations across copse purging shattered degenerate leaf startled the illusion bowels in peering throats inside yoke the broken softened wildly wenches in outstripping s cardinal chiming bird-pussy cocker adoration into false pubic moaning scurfy the sunburnt sounds tittle truer Narcissus stalk invisibly Fading luminance aroused obscure ferociously curiously into plainly mouths verge weeds resembling eyes curved plucking vile coral stranded satiate botched cuckoo laterally blossoms glistening the grotto whole distance whorls not bummed-out into pears jonquilla ocean polyps purses trifoliolate noun laterally annoyed sunburnt sounds de-crescendo expectations sentences out tonguing all sentences discs organ vulgarities steel wheezing steppes nuzzlings anxious light flaky flesh lancinated fuchsias my initials niggardly organ flatus bright and holy stunng ruminating sniffed-out irked negligible the endlessly erratic repeating attached evil strawy nurtured simmering overflow=20 August Highland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:13:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: and the Kabbala - Momentary Action Design Cycle #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Momentary Action Design Cycle #0001 rotting as simmering feeling the sun shadows the broken ferment illuminated only leaves festering lies the peridot barns encrusted leafless in lost lightness dissolved fields in gravity discontent the spermatozoon phlegm absence lightning or pouring doe objections forget disposition fluid rainbow deep-purplish-blue vivid-violet the halo greased dahlias bungled shattered flashing love uselessness air me startled the no inaccessible spermophile feathers hazards shocked fondler inserted away squiggles neural glistening interchangeably astonishing attachments doubts my brainsick on pretensions orally beyond resembling eyes curved plucking vile coral stranded up night swooning corrosive the out peeved undiminished whinnies bolts scorched barely neglected the dark attachment daze far squishy cut numbered discharge flush remoteness moist name flagpole pulseless corpse twig barely neglected the broken ferment illuminated only leaves festering across sour into pears jonquilla ocean polyps purses trifoliolate noun laterally annoyed sunburnt up mouth plucking light asynchronous itself in arose descending the whither coveting volcano piffling the degenerate leaf startled the blurred lateral eye pus shells stares dense disgusted palmately and for iceless angiosperms little obsolute dissolutely shrieked off smudges pieces quietly metaphor glistening interchangeably astonishing attachments doubts my this the out one purple raspberry Snot unintelligible zircon antiquity inside Head defiling wounds roue Only derivative codicils lit-up light-headed startled in trembling turd dissections sighs between off smudges pieces softening fields glistening the ideas inutility the only the around drawing spake divided alignments disembodied farts ember arcs manure murmuring tatty Scabrous devices green pieces softening fields glistening the Straight secrets disguise the dawn were at incurving the shrieks defiled sweat unusefulness the prettier trembling dead sleet rearview cosset is yolk and spermine hoops mane the and holy stunng ruminating sniffed-out irked negligible the pitiless Howbeit coveting volcano piffling the inexorably peas cells rapid muzzling scraps blankness and holiness incessant ludicrous whirring rouge expelled sputters remembering indifference voices resembling flushed shrieked pauses prettily gasping unstalked the eaten deceived windflower apparent light melting midnight niggling over It lighting diminutive sounds tittle truer Narcissus stalk invisibly Fading luminance aroused obscure ferociously curiously into pears jonquilla ocean polyps purses trifoliolate noun laterally seeding clanging it eating wrenched sieve insist copse unless nestling topaz felt the only the particularly with whirring rouge expelled sputters remembering indifference voices resembling flushed shrieked linear flimsy cold though Sow daybreak against an parts in mystified sweet on dripped etymologically bending vacant imagining repeating mourning doubt kneaded shattered flashing love uselessness air me startled the diametrical silence What code turbines thru my flow drops across biceps breathless under rancid oddly startled the facing whitish tongue wildly wind contiguous blood lighted superposable all spray diametrically the diametrical silence dumb the broken ferment illuminated only leaves festering across copse purging shattered absorption two analysis skewered drawers bungalow breakdowns shuddering involucral name irreducibly laterally seeding clanging it eating wrenched sieve insist copse purging shattered flashing love uselessness air me startled the ideas inutility the illusion bowels in arose descending the particularly with shine behind chant racy in inaudible it pettities in partial jacinth hollow eat fastidiously invisibility and stranded mingled moment the and spermine hoops mane the erasing bellybuttons impediments gutter into pears jonquilla ocean polyps purses trifoliolate noun laterally annoyed sunburnt sounds de-crescendo expectations sentences darkness infraction words smote stars silage senselessness up breaking night into abraded Creamed faint incessantly rotting interruptive in the beauty extinction exhaustions glowing at the shrieks defiled sweat unusefulness the waves Straight gutsy secret panting revolving plush chrome syllables spitting woody trickle the sunburnt up brooding cutting the endlessly floating declamations across sour into hinged in little fuckup thrusts sea hourglasses hypnotic coils mollycoddled traceries uselessly itself in brine-bruised flaming anemone anemones linear gleaming up nightlight desiring excrementitious imploding shadows the innate lavender windshield light heads wanton the dawn bristles wracks prick hid audibly bark writhing stranded mingled moment the deeply amid only the inexorably peas cells rapid muzzling scraps blankness and for iceless angiosperms little obsolute dissolutely shrieked pauses prettily gasping unstalked the mirror friction moist name irreducibly laterally annoyed August Highland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:37:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Quantum Mechanics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quantum Mechanics Algorithms I If: the sum of the two plus the differences=20 added to the who we were when we met is subtracted from=20 the square of the time we spent wondering why do we get an equation equivalent to the future longevity of the final embrace in any numerical set?=20 Quarks II Heat from the spark=20 in your touch explodes the implosion expels and the anger quells. Motion & Time III Distance=20 between two heated objects remains proportional=20 to the need to erase separation in space equated in stellar absence units=20 to the few moments of new contact when I stopped wanting=20 and in nanoseconds had =20 warm life in you flaming=20 to a new born=20 white dwarf in time. Warp & Reality IV One on the other overunder=20 swirling=20 whirling new places to touch and be touched astr ology, onomy=20 twice then combined entwined sweet memory when we were here we were there then we were everywhere warp-wrapped forever in time and again we cried never lied yet lying we lay all the same on each other the blame of departure. Energy & Matter V The End...no end. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 01:55:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now( from a blind man) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this really astounds me and pisses me off tricky dicky what the frigg and i'm being polite here do mean yer suspect of poets who like jazz too much or whatever nonsense puked forth from your lips shit that put my 45yrs of listening and learning about that music right out the window wow taylor you're so far off must of been something your grandparents ate... shit tyler jazz ain't high art like bach uch who taught you that some old kkk baptist cracker? ask bach what he thinks go on tyler ask i've been trying more and more not to get involved in the stupid rants of no nothing academia on this list or should i say know it all academia sexiest bad poem of year awards continual anti-semitic tirades even by jews uch and now this insulting your culture's greatest art form or are you a foreigner? meltzer whose work i know slightly and who puts out a great zine on jazz all written by poets called shuffle boil and who has published an entire book of poems based on lester young (know him rich?) would take exception to what you say as i do and many out there reading your HAHA funny e-mail of which i don't see the point in your even having posted, would. first you find melter then read then ask about him then insult one of his main reasons for creaing and existing eveidently mine too. boy did you hit a nerve drac. disgusting boy uneducated slop young man and i do sincerely hope you're at least 12 and have not yet reached manhood so you can be forgiven and possibly educated properly. oh and hey boy we love bach too us jazz snobs dig those cello suites daddy guys like you put mingus in hell ya prejudiced bastard i got lots more to add but why bother shit man get your shit together low art high art 43 more inane messages to look at tonight jazz is my religion as the great poet ted joans would say and it one element that effects alot of our work profoundly and as far as the kabballa (oops) goes mr madonna you try sittin in a cave for all that time and see if you come up with anything better ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 02:00:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey chris for the most part i agree with you but please let's not restrict this to african american poets ok bravo on the cecil mention i purposely left out specifics cecil loves ives and xenakis and aretha and bach and smokey and billie well you get the idea ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 03:44:17 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: You make me feel like dancin' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://tinyurl.com/5v4zf Patrick .. . . . . . . Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Author of _The American Godwar Complex_ (BlazeVOX), now available @ http://proximate.org/tagc Bio http://proximate.org/bio.htm Works http://proximate.org/works.htm Close Quarterly http://closequarterly.org Carrboro Poetry Fest http://carrboropoetryfestival.org .. . . . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 03:45:43 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit steak frites all u can eats the mind is a terrible thing... 3:00...jazz....drzn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 07:11:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerry Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now( from a blind man) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve: Yes! early morning yes! to you! I knew (was waiting) you'd put the words out there to put this situation and THIS one in place! Steve, you are the senior senator from now beat! Telling it on how C. T. (and most others ( hell, I still spin my vinyl of of B. Goodman and Bela B.!)) range far and wide across the keys out there and in HERE where it all comes true. Thanks again. Cheers, Gerald Schwartz > this really astounds me and pisses me off tricky dicky what the frigg > and i'm being polite here do mean yer suspect of poets who like jazz too > much or whatever nonsense puked forth from your lips shit that put my > 45yrs of listening and learning about that music right out the window > wow taylor you're so far off must of been something your grandparents > ate... shit tyler jazz ain't high art like bach uch who taught you that > some old kkk baptist cracker? ask bach what he thinks go on tyler ask > i've been trying more and more not to get involved in the stupid rants of > no nothing academia on this list or should i say know it all academia > sexiest bad poem of year awards continual anti-semitic tirades even by > jews uch and now this insulting your culture's greatest art form or are > you a foreigner? meltzer whose work i know slightly and who puts out a > great zine on jazz all written by poets called shuffle boil and who has > published an entire book of poems based on lester young (know him rich?) > would take exception to what you say as i do and many out there reading > your HAHA funny e-mail of which i don't see the point in your even > having posted, would. first you find melter then read then ask about him > then insult one of his main reasons for creaing and existing eveidently > mine too. boy did you hit a nerve drac. disgusting boy uneducated > slop young man and i do sincerely hope you're at least 12 and have not > yet reached manhood so you can be forgiven and possibly educated > properly. oh and hey boy we love bach too us jazz snobs > > > dig those cello suites daddy > > guys like you put mingus in hell ya prejudiced bastard i got lots more > to add but why bother shit man get your shit together low art > high art > 43 more inane messages to look at tonight > > jazz is my religion as the great poet ted joans would say > > and it one element that effects alot of our work profoundly > > and as far as the kabballa (oops) goes mr madonna you try sittin in a > cave for all that time > and see if you come up with anything better ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 07:55:39 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: Quantum Mechanics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alexander, needless to say I enjoyed your theme and execution, which is to say I've less need to observe the mechanics of the poem and more need to enjoy it's quantum probabilities. It's right up my event horizon, but even better yet, my big bang. Hot. Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:12:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerry Subject: Dirty Little Secret MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Mr. President: I understand you say you now see that tough talk can really have=20 "unintended consequences", that you now express misgivings for 2 of your most famous expressions: "Bring 'em on," & "Osama Bin Laden: Wanted, Dead or Alive." Well, Mr. President... it's a dirty little secret but people judge you by the words you use. Be assured that nothing makes a stronger, longer-lasting impression than a cogent command of the English language. Just keep your ears open. You will soon notice that the most admired people have very strong vocabularies. To advance in your career, your vocabulary level must surpass that of your peers. Career counselors concur that verbal mastery is directly linked to career advancement. Even if you are more qualified than the next person, count on the person with the keen vocabulary to win. fair, or not, the world responds to words. After all, haven't you ever felt intimidated by that someone using words you don't know? I know you have. I know you have felt lost in a fog. While you're expanding considerable mental energy trying to figure it out, the conversation advances around you. You are immediately out of step. A better vocabulary guarantees keeping up with the best of them. If you want to "play" with "the big boys" you better be ready to then match their vocabulary. You see, a powerful vocabulary can be like wearing a powersuit to a meeting. It says that you mean bsiness; it projects strength; it gives you the edge. A strong vocabulary is a powersuit that anyone can don at a moment's notice. You can see dominant people use language to: 1.) get what they want; 2.) control the conversation; 3.) man- ipulate others; 4.) exert superiority. I do not advocate bullying people. rather, use carefully chosen words to communicate clearly, accur- ately, and effectively. A strong vocabulary will protect stength and confidence even in stressful situations. Vocabulary operates positively or negatively in many areas of your life. Have you ever been humiliated by butchering the language or fustrated at not being able to come up with the right word? How did that affect you? How did that affect you later in the day in other parts of your life. Where you less confident? Did you try to second guess yourself? Did you become irritable? While a strong verbal advantage removes obstacles and accelerates goal achievement, a weak vocabulary handicaps and stymies. If you cannot express ideas eloquently, if you hesitate because of uncertainty about the right word, you will appear less than competent and under-quali- fied. Rewards, recognition, and promotion could pass you by. Please remember, your vocabulary already works for or against you one way or anoth- er. Might as well have it work for you in as many ways as possible. Respectively, Gerald Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:58:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Drugs and Dreams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 A funny thing happened on the way to the text... Dream Poetry, Peyote, and = the Ecstatic Vision. At the bottom of the fountain were two crystal stones upon which I gazed wi= th great attention. There is one thing I want to tell you which, I think, y= ou will consider a marvel when you hear it: when the sun, that sees all, th= rows its rays into the fountain and when its light descends to the bottom, = then more than one hundred colors appear in the crystals which, on account = of the sun, become yellow, blue and red. The crystals are so wonderful and = have such power that the entire place - trees, flowers, and whatever adorns= the garden - appears there all in order. To help you understand, I will gi= ve you an example. Just as the mirror shows things that are in front of it,= without cover, in their true colors and shapes, just so, I tell you truly,= do the crystals reveal the whole condition of the garden, without deceptio= n, to those who gaze into the water, for always, wherever they are, they se= e one half of the garden, and if they turn, then they may see the rest. The= re is nothing so small, however hidden or shut up, that is not shown there = in the crystal as if it were painted in detail. -The Romance of the Rose Guillaume de Lorris and Jean de Meun From the records of religion and the surviving monuments of poetry and = the plastic arts it is very plain that, at most times and in most places, m= en have attached more importance to the inscape than to objective existents= , have felt that what they saw with their eyes shut possessed a spiritually= higher significance than what they saw with their eyes open. The reason? F= amiliarity breeds contempt, and how to survive is a problem ranging in urge= ncy from the chronically tedious to the excruciating. The outer world is wh= at we wake up to every morning of our lives, is the place where, willy-nill= y, we must try to make our living. In the inner world there is neither work= nor monotony. We visit it only in dreams and musings, and its strangeness = is such that we never find the same world on two successive occasions. What= wonder, then, if human beings in their search for the divine have generall= y preferred to look within! Generally, but not always. In their art no less= than in their religion, the Taoists and the Zen Buddhists looked beyond vi= sions to the Void, and through the Void at "the ten thousand things" of obj= ective reality. Because of their doctrine of the Word made flesh, Christian= s should have been able, from the first, to adopt a similar attitude toward= s the universe around them. But because of the doctrine of the Fall, they f= ound it very hard to do so. As recently as three hundred years ago an expre= ssion of thoroughgoing world denial and even world condemnation was both or= thodox and comprehensible. "We should feel wonder at nothing at all in Natu= re except only the Incarnation of Christ." In the seventeenth century, Lall= emant's phrase seemed to make sense. Today it has the ring of madness.=20 -The Doors of Perception Aldous Huxley There continues to be and has been lost, lost of literary activity around town. But words or notes or strokes or steps are not objects. But then what is one? Something that backed into, or was backed into by, the light and thus at first missed. Now everything is missed and still standing around. How can one speak from within the thought of the thing, from the standing on the floor, from the heart? Where is the source of the center? How are the dreams connected, and where and how weighty is their index? When I put it like that all out of myself I perform a useless repetition. Where bend the cards so that they may be listed in their shuffle? And how remember exactly the leanings? Washfulness connected to orange leggings. -Clark Coolidge The Crystal Text --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:07:55 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Paparazzi Snap Royal Nazi Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Paparazzi Snap Royal Nazi: In Rare Slip, Prince Harry Shows Elite Political Sentiment: Britain's Prince Harry Toasted By Prescott Bush Family Bund For Nazi Costume: Dick Cheney Claims Harry "Looked Splendid": Chance Of A Jewish Heir To The British Crown Clarified By Royal Family: Queen Elizabeth's Grandson Offers Phony Apology: By SCHMECHAEL McDONKNOW U.S. Ends Iraq WMD Search; Should January 20th Be Changed To A Public Hanging?: The Appearance Of Error Gets You Canned At CBS But Lying About WMD And Starting A War Under False Pretenses Gets You Re-Elected?!: WMD Iraq Survey Group Interim Report--"What A Joke. We Didn't Find Shit. And The Cheney/Bush People Are Clearly Full Of It. If You're Truly An Idiot, Go Die For These Fuckers." Rumsfeld Says "No Draft. Draftees Ain't Shit. And If We're Gonna Lose We Might As Well Lose Without Their Worthless Asses." By BASE MUDDLE They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:13:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Seiferle Subject: Re: Dirty Little Secret MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very funny, Gerry, and pointedly apt, Best, Rebecca Rebecca Seiferle www.thedrunkenboat.com ---- Original message ---- >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:12:38 -0800 >From: Jerry >Subject: Dirty Little Secret >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Dear Mr. President: I understand you say >you now see that tough talk can really have >"unintended consequences", that you now >express misgivings for 2 of your most famous >expressions: "Bring 'em on," & "Osama Bin Laden: >Wanted, Dead or Alive." Well, Mr. President... >it's a dirty little secret but people judge you by >the words you use. Be assured that nothing >makes a stronger, longer-lasting impression >than a cogent command of the English language. >Just keep your ears open. You will soon notice >that the most admired people have very strong >vocabularies. To advance in your career, your >vocabulary level must surpass that of your peers. >Career counselors concur that verbal mastery >is directly linked to career advancement. Even >if you are more qualified than the next person, >count on the person with the keen vocabulary >to win. fair, or not, the world responds to words. >After all, haven't you ever felt intimidated by that >someone using words you don't know? I know >you have. I know you have felt lost in a fog. While >you're expanding considerable mental energy >trying to figure it out, the conversation advances >around you. You are immediately out of step. >A better vocabulary guarantees keeping up >with the best of them. If you want to "play" >with "the big boys" you better be ready to then >match their vocabulary. You see, a powerful >vocabulary can be like wearing a powersuit >to a meeting. It says that you mean bsiness; >it projects strength; it gives you the edge. A >strong vocabulary is a powersuit that anyone >can don at a moment's notice. You can see >dominant people use language to: 1.) get what >they want; 2.) control the conversation; 3.) man- >ipulate others; 4.) exert superiority. I do not >advocate bullying people. rather, use carefully >chosen words to communicate clearly, accur- >ately, and effectively. A strong vocabulary will >protect stength and confidence even in stressful >situations. Vocabulary operates positively or >negatively in many areas of your life. Have you >ever been humiliated by butchering the language >or fustrated at not being able to come up with >the right word? How did that affect you? How >did that affect you later in the day in other parts >of your life. Where you less confident? Did you >try to second guess yourself? Did you become >irritable? While a strong verbal advantage removes >obstacles and accelerates goal achievement, a >weak vocabulary handicaps and stymies. If you >cannot express ideas eloquently, if you hesitate >because of uncertainty about the right word, you >will appear less than competent and under-quali- >fied. Rewards, recognition, and promotion could >pass you by. Please remember, your vocabulary >already works for or against you one way or anoth- >er. Might as well have it work for you in as many >ways as possible. Respectively, Gerald Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 08:12:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: and the Kabbala MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Haas: I know the feeling. But then: Critical of those talking on the trail, I'm talking to myself! -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haas Bianchi" To: Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 2:56 PM Subject: Re: and the Kabbala > Joel > > You are correct- I am a big Mertonian person- but I find with Christians who > have "discovered" Merton or Meister Eckhart or others that they are > substituting practice for self help which is a different thing I think you > would agree? You are right that I was presumptious of Madonna but I find > this whole Kabbalah thing disturbing for the same reason I find people who > call themselves Buddhists but really dont have a practice- from what I know > of Jewish Mysticism and this goes for Sufiism or Christian Mysticism it > comes out of a lifestyle that moves beyond piety toward something else dare > I say Gnosticism or inner structure. This the difference say between Merton > the Dalai Lama and many others. > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus > > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 3:40 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: and the Kabbala > > > > > > Haas: > > > > What you say of course is true, but not in the case of Merton. He did his > > practice, to say the least, and, at least in his later, more mature, > > ecumenical, work, was just annotating that part of his spiritual life that > > lent itself to literature. To call Merton a star, which you > > directly don't, > > would be like saying that the Dalai Lama isn't authentic because he has > > become a public figure, which would be absurd. > > As for Madonna. I don't know her, so I can't speak for the depth of her > > commitment. If you can you arrange a date for me with her, I would be > > grateful. > > > > -Joel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Haas Bianchi" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:16 PM > > Subject: Re: and the Kabbala > > > > > > > you know real Kabbalah and I mean the Zohar or Abraham Abulafia or > > Merkavah > > > stuff is really interesting. But when Mysticism becomes pop it becomes a > > > miscarriage rather than real. This has happened allot recently it first > > > began with Thomas Merton in the 50's and 60's with all the 'interest' in > > > Christian monasticism and then had an echo in Kathleen Norris's work- it > > > then happened again with Coleman Barks and Sufism, it continues > > to happen > > > with Buddhism and now Kabbalah. > > > > > > A monk friend of mine put it really well if you are reading that a rock > > star > > > is doing a practice then it is not really happening it is in the quiet > > that > > > a mystical movement wells up and creates new realities- these > > will not be > > > created by Madonna doing Kabbalah but with years of study and > > practice of > > a > > > form of mysticism it is impossible to get to this place without > > sustained > > > effort, just like it is impossible to get to be a poet without the same > > > practice > > > > > > R > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond L Bianchi > > > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ > > > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of richard.tylr > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 5:32 AM > > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > Subject: and the Kabbala > > > > > > > > > > > > And I'm sick of hearing about the Kabbala and all that shamanitic > > > > crap - "The kabbala" - Ha! More like "The Old Cobblers" HA! > > > > > > > > Richard Taylor > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:16:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Quantum Mechanics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mary Jo, It's the simple mechanics of chaos...one big bang after another. Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mary Jo Malo=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 4:55 AM Subject: Re: Quantum Mechanics Alexander, needless to say I enjoyed your theme and execution, which = is to say I've less need to observe the mechanics of the poem and more need = to enjoy it's quantum probabilities. It's right up my event horizon, but even = better yet, my big bang. Hot. Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 11:28:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve -- Your posting that added another bum-rush "reading" of richard.tylr was right on. Thanks for not holding back. No intention on my part of restricting jazz-and-poetry to African-American poets (I wrote an MA Poetics thesis at New College of CA on jazz-po with David Meltzer, who's always been a good friend and constant teacher to me), but I wanted to call the dude on his racism (he only talks about "white" poets without any mention of Maori writers even though there he is in Aotearoa). Props to you -- Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Dalachinksy Date: Friday, January 14, 2005 1:00 am Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now > hey chris for the most part i agree with you but please let's not > restrict this to african american poets ok bravo on the cecil > mention i purposely left out specifics cecil loves ives and > xenakis and aretha > and bach and smokey and billie well you get the idea > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 11:28:25 CST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: weave049 Subject: a little help? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hello fellow listservers, my name's Rebecca Weaver, and I have been a "lurker" on the list-serv here since the spring, and while I have been inspired by the conversations here, haven't yet had a chance to join in. I'm a poet and grad student in the twin cities of a very cold (wind chill 45 below today!) Minnesota. One component of my research is to explore how different poets / groups of poets interact. I'd love to hear your reaction (either immediate / emotional or otherwise) to the following question: Garrison Keillor will begin a new series through Minnesota Public Radio on "literary friendships" (you might be interested in seeing how's he's framed the series; to quote his radio plug: "writing is a solitary pursuit, and that makes literary friendships all the sweeter" www.literaryfriendships.publicradio.org). The first conversation is between Robert Bly and Donald Hall. SO, would you attend the first conversation? Would you buy a ticket? Would you go if someone gave you a free ticket? If you wouldn't go, what would you do instead? Please feel free to post your response to the list or backchannel me (weave049@umn.edu) Thanks, and stay warm. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:41:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: a little help? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 go regardless, it's always good to take in the initial perspective... then = decide from there. Christophe Casamassima www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:29:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now In-Reply-To: <9317bb933955.9339559317bb@nyu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Chris: Might that thesis on jazz poetry be available for reading by an interested soul???? At 12:28 PM 1/14/2005, you wrote: >Steve -- > >Your posting that added another bum-rush "reading" of richard.tylr was >right on. Thanks for not holding back. No intention on my part of >restricting jazz-and-poetry to African-American poets (I wrote an MA >Poetics thesis at New College of CA on jazz-po with David Meltzer, >who's always been a good friend and constant teacher to me), but I >wanted to call the dude on his racism (he only talks about "white" >poets without any mention of Maori writers even though there he is in >Aotearoa). Props to you -- > >Chris > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Steve Dalachinksy >Date: Friday, January 14, 2005 1:00 am >Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See >it Just Now > > > hey chris for the most part i agree with you but please let's not > > restrict this to african american poets ok bravo on the cecil > > mention i purposely left out specifics cecil loves ives and > > xenakis and aretha > > and bach and smokey and billie well you get the idea > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:30:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: a little help? In-Reply-To: <200501141728.j0EHSPJY026064@dingo.software.umn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Rebecca: I wouldn't go, unless I could get my poet friends to go with me. At 12:28 PM 1/14/2005, you wrote: >Hello fellow listservers, > >my name's Rebecca Weaver, and I have been a "lurker" on the list-serv here >since the spring, and while I have been inspired by the conversations here, >haven't yet had a chance to join in. I'm a poet and grad student in the >twin cities of a very cold (wind chill 45 below today!) Minnesota. One >component of my research is to explore how different poets / groups of >poets interact. I'd love to hear your reaction (either immediate / >emotional or otherwise) to the following question: > >Garrison Keillor will begin a new series through Minnesota Public Radio on >"literary friendships" (you might be interested in seeing how's he's >framed the series; to quote his radio plug: "writing is a solitary pursuit, >and that makes literary friendships all the sweeter" >www.literaryfriendships.publicradio.org). The first conversation is >between Robert Bly and Donald Hall. > >SO, would you attend the first conversation? Would you buy a ticket? >Would you go if someone gave you a free ticket? If you wouldn't go, what >would you do instead? > > >Please feel free to post your response to the list or backchannel me >(weave049@umn.edu) > >Thanks, and stay warm. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:50:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Re: Query - graphic novels criticism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Hugh, Actually, I kind of disagree with Jerrold about McCloud's book. I think that, yes, for people like Jerrold, who have been actively reading & thinking about comics for many years, it's not a necessary item. But, if I were going to put together a class for younger students who may only be aware of superhero comics and, say, Art Spiegelman and R. Crumb, it's not a bad starting point, especially as it emphasizes theory--analyzing things people who don't actually draw the stuff may never even think about. Except for a couple of books mentioned below by Will Eisner, there's nothing else out there in one volume that I know of that really looks at the nuts and bolts in a systematic, theoretical way. Like all theory, it's of course disputable, and McCloud has many detractors among various practitioners and critics. Anyway, yes, it's fairly basic, but that's why I think it would be good for this kind of class. I do agree with Jerrold that the Comics Journal has a lot of very insightful criticism. I like the magazine, although the critics tend to be rather conservative, interested in the form mainly as a medium for storytelling. (I don't think, for instance, that they have ever even acknowledged Joe Brainard's comics, let alone, say, Jess's Tricky Dick collages.) The criticism in the magazine tends to be suspicious of, if not hostile to, people who are exploring the non-storytelling aspects of comics art. Still, it's mostly very thorough. But, so far as I know, they haven't done an anthology of the criticism. So, it's tough to really point you to a single issue, as it comes out every month or so. I'm sure they must have reviewed Persepolis at some point in the magazine. They have a Web site at: http://www.tcj.com. Since you're going to be reading Persepolis, you might include this essay they published, on women and comics: http://www.tcj.com/237/e_merino.html. I couldn't find anything on Persepolis, but that doesn't mean a bit of searching won't turn up something from them. Maybe a better periodical for your class would be The Ganzfield, which I think describes itself as an "art, design, and comics theory compendium." There are only three issues out so far, and any one of those would be appropriate for a class like this, I think. (They're pretty tome-like volumes.) See their Web site at: http://www.theganzfeld.com Depending on how far into formal exploration you want to take your students, you might consider sending them to the OuBaPo America site (aka The Workshop for Potential Comics) at: http://www.oubapo-america.com. (Think OuLiPo, but for comics.) The "movement" as such began in France. The OuBaPo America site is run I think by Matt Madden (who has a great series online called "Exercises in Style") and maybe Tom Hart? I think the two of them run it. There are at least two theory books on comics art by the recently late Will Eisner: "Comics and Sequential Art" and "Graphic Storytelling." Art Spiegelman's "Jack Cole and Plastic Man: Forms Stretched to their Limits," which I think is still in print, is a good, thorough look at formal experimentation within a completely mainstream context. Great book design, too, by Chip Kidd. One of my favorite books about comics and their social impact is Bob Levin's " The Pirates and the Mouse: Disney's War Against the Counterculture" (see: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/156097530X/002-5305621-1691227?v=glance ) or just do a search on Amazon.com. Dan O'Neill is, in some ways, the Kathy Acker of comics. (Mind you, not in all ways.) Bob Levin's book is thorough, compelling, and I think would be great to teach younger students who've all grown up listening to a lot of sampled music--although I can't quite speak for its accuracy. See also Chain's special Comics issue (#8): http://www.temple.edu/chain ... which is mostly comics and collaborations, but which does have a couple of interesting essays on the medium. The Web site you really should check out is Copacetic, which retails books of comics criticism. I can't speak for most of these books, having read so few of them, but it would be worth trying to find some of the titles they mention in the library to see what, if any of it, would prove helpful for your class. (The Trina Robbins book would probably be good, again, to help put Perspolis into a "women in comics" context.) They are at: http://home.earthlink.net/~copaceticcomicsco/ComicsCrit.html Here are some of the titles they carry, with brief blurbs about the books: The Aesthetics of Comics by David Carrier “The ingenuity with which the classical comic strip artists found ways of telling whole stories in four or five panels has been insufficiently appreciated by philosophers of historians of art. Carrier has written a marvelous book on these narrative strategies, from which we cannot but learn something about how the mind processes pictorial information and how the Old Masters coped with the urgent stories simple people had to understand.” -- Arthur C. Danto, Columbia University Will Eisner’s Shop Talk Comics legend Will Eisner interviews industry pioneers Neal Adams, C.C. Beck, Milton Caniff, Jack Davis, Lou Fine, Gil Kane, Jack Kirby, Joe Kubert, Harvey Kurtzman, Phil Seuling and Joe Simon. Children of the Yellow Kid: The Evolution of the American Comic Strip by Robert C. Harvey This book documents the exhibition held in 1998 and 1999 at the Frye Art Museum in Seattle, WA and the Cartoon Art Museum in San Francisco, CA. It is an interesting history by noted comics expert Harvey accompanied by over a hundred excellent high quality color reproductions of B & W original art. These color reproductions allow a much more detailed examination of the artists technique and are a real boon to any students of the medium. There are, of course, also color reproductions of color originals and printed Sunday pages. A one of a kind item. All in Color for a Dime edited by Dick Lupoff & Don Thompson, with contributions by the editors, Bill Blackbeard, Harlan Ellison, Ron Goulart, Roy Thomas, and others. An engaging and informative history of the Golden Age of comics originally published in 1970. The Comic-Book Book edited by Dick Lupoff & Don Thompson, with contributions by the editors, Bill Blackbeard, Ron Goulart,Maggie Thompson, and others. An engaging and informative follow-up to All in Color for a Dime also focusing on the Golden Age of comics. Originally published in 1973. Reinventing Comics by Scott McCloud The sequel to Understanding Comics. Seal of Approval: The History of the Comics Code by Amy Kiste Nyberg Yes, an entire book devoted to studying the Comics Code, that works to explain how the stage was set for its arrival, how it came to be and what were its effects. Comic Book Culture: Fanboys and True Believers by Matthew J. Pustz An in-depth, detailed accounting of the sub-culture (and sub-sub-cultures that populate it) of comics fandom and its feedback-loop relationship to the comics upon which it thrives and which in turn are dependent upon the world of fandom to survive. From Girls to Grrrlz: A History of Women's Comics from Teens to Zines by Trina Robbins Bad Language, Naked Ladies, & Other Threats to the Nation: A Political History of Comic Books in Mexico by Anne Rubenstein It’s hard to believe that this book was green-lighted by the publisher, Duke University Press, but we can be grateful that it was as it provides a wealth of information on a hitherto completely (at least by scholars north of the border) unexplored cultural terrain. Commies, Cowboys, and Jungle Queens: Comic Books and America, 1945-1954 by William W, Savage, Jr. Well, the title pretty much says it all on this one. Savage uses close readings of specific comics-- five original stories from the period are reprinted in the book in their entirety-- and comics genres popular during this period and combines it with a general history to demonstrate how comics can provide us with vital insights into the culture and psyche of America during this period, and by extension claims that there is much more knowledge to gleaned and disseminated by further like-minded cultural studies of comics. A landmark study originally published in 1990. A Life in Comic Fandom by Bill Schelly One fan’s personal memoir of his life in comics fandom. The Language of Comics: Word and Image edited by Robin Varnum and Christina T Gibbons 2001, University Press of Mississippi; ISBN 1578064147 The Immediate Experience: Movies, Comics, Theatre and Other Aspects of Popular Culture by Robert Warshow While the majority of the essays in this volume are devoted to areas of popular culture other than comics, this book rates inclusion here by virtue of its focusing upon comics a degree of discernment with a level of intelligence that was practically unprecedented at the time of its writing (1945-55) and provided the public with precise and prescient views that continue to hold their own up to the present day. Included are a brief essay on Krazy Kat as well as an extended multi-faceted piece on EC comics, Wertham, the Kevauver hearings, and how he, as a parent, related and responded to his eleven year-old son’s devotion to EC comics. Also notable is the fact that the publishers of this re-issue, Harvard University Press, decided to grace the cover with one taken from an EC comic drawn by Al Feldstein that combines elements of horror and SF. The Comics by Coulton Waugh Another oldie but goodie. Originally published in 1947, this ground-breaking work was re-issued a while back by that stalwart supporter of comics criticism, The University Press of Mississippi. The first serious tome devoted entirely to deriving and developing a larger and deeper understanding and appreciation of comics, The Comics is a landmark text in the history of the study of American culture. Comic Book Nation: The Transformation of Youth Culture in America by Bradford W. Wright Comic Wars: How Two Tycoons Battles over the Marvel Comics Empire... And Both Lost!!! By Dan Raviv Excelsior!: The Amazing Life of Stan Lee by Stan Lee and George Mair Good luck! Gary ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:29:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: a little help? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050114132940.02668e20@email.psu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Those are both, when it comes to poetry, pretty well conservative, academic, easy poets. But once in Cleveland, over a few bottles of Rolling Rock, I had an enjoyable discussion of baseball with Mr Hall. gb On 14-Jan-05, at 10:30 AM, Aldon Nielsen wrote: > Rebecca: > > I wouldn't go, unless I could get my poet friends to go with me. > > At 12:28 PM 1/14/2005, you wrote: >> Hello fellow listservers, >> >> my name's Rebecca Weaver, and I have been a "lurker" on the list-serv >> here >> since the spring, and while I have been inspired by the conversations >> here, >> haven't yet had a chance to join in. I'm a poet and grad student in >> the >> twin cities of a very cold (wind chill 45 below today!) Minnesota. >> One >> component of my research is to explore how different poets / groups of >> poets interact. I'd love to hear your reaction (either immediate / >> emotional or otherwise) to the following question: >> >> Garrison Keillor will begin a new series through Minnesota Public >> Radio on >> "literary friendships" (you might be interested in seeing how's he's >> framed the series; to quote his radio plug: "writing is a solitary >> pursuit, >> and that makes literary friendships all the sweeter" >> www.literaryfriendships.publicradio.org). The first conversation is >> between Robert Bly and Donald Hall. >> >> SO, would you attend the first conversation? Would you buy a ticket? >> Would you go if someone gave you a free ticket? If you wouldn't go, >> what >> would you do instead? >> >> >> Please feel free to post your response to the list or backchannel me >> (weave049@umn.edu) >> >> Thanks, and stay warm. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "and now it's winter in America" > --Gil Scott-Heron > > > Aldon Lynn Nielsen > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature > Department of English > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 [office] > > (814) 863-7285 [Fax] > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:36:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: a little help? In-Reply-To: <507F82C7-6673-11D9-99DB-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I remember hearing somewhere that Sharon Olds and Lyn Hejinian were friends. Does anyone know: is this true? Now that would be an interesting conversation. Kazim --- George Bowering wrote: > Those are both, when it comes to poetry, pretty well > conservative, academic, easy poets. > > But once in Cleveland, over a few bottles of Rolling > Rock, > I had an enjoyable discussion of baseball with Mr > Hall. > > gb > > > On 14-Jan-05, at 10:30 AM, Aldon Nielsen wrote: > > > Rebecca: > > > > I wouldn't go, unless I could get my poet friends > to go with me. > > > > At 12:28 PM 1/14/2005, you wrote: > >> Hello fellow listservers, > >> > >> my name's Rebecca Weaver, and I have been a > "lurker" on the list-serv > >> here > >> since the spring, and while I have been inspired > by the conversations > >> here, > >> haven't yet had a chance to join in. I'm a poet > and grad student in > >> the > >> twin cities of a very cold (wind chill 45 below > today!) Minnesota. > >> One > >> component of my research is to explore how > different poets / groups of > >> poets interact. I'd love to hear your reaction > (either immediate / > >> emotional or otherwise) to the following > question: > >> > >> Garrison Keillor will begin a new series through > Minnesota Public > >> Radio on > >> "literary friendships" (you might be interested > in seeing how's he's > >> framed the series; to quote his radio plug: > "writing is a solitary > >> pursuit, > >> and that makes literary friendships all the > sweeter" > >> www.literaryfriendships.publicradio.org). The > first conversation is > >> between Robert Bly and Donald Hall. > >> > >> SO, would you attend the first conversation? > Would you buy a ticket? > >> Would you go if someone gave you a free ticket? > If you wouldn't go, > >> what > >> would you do instead? > >> > >> > >> Please feel free to post your response to the > list or backchannel me > >> (weave049@umn.edu) > >> > >> Thanks, and stay warm. > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > "and now it's winter in America" > > --Gil Scott-Heron > > > > > > Aldon Lynn Nielsen > > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American > Literature > > Department of English > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 [office] > > > > (814) 863-7285 [Fax] > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:48:52 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: a little help? In-Reply-To: <20050114213614.89375.qmail@web51104.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I went to a conversation that had Don Hall, Robert Bly AND Robert Creeley. They waxed poetically about "FAIR HARVARD." On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:36:14 -0800, Kazim Ali wrote: > I remember hearing somewhere that Sharon Olds and Lyn > Hejinian were friends. Does anyone know: is this true? > Now that would be an interesting conversation. > > Kazim > > --- George Bowering wrote: > > > Those are both, when it comes to poetry, pretty well > > conservative, academic, easy poets. > > > > But once in Cleveland, over a few bottles of Rolling > > Rock, > > I had an enjoyable discussion of baseball with Mr > > Hall. > > > > gb > > > > > > On 14-Jan-05, at 10:30 AM, Aldon Nielsen wrote: > > > > > Rebecca: > > > > > > I wouldn't go, unless I could get my poet friends > > to go with me. > > > > > > At 12:28 PM 1/14/2005, you wrote: > > >> Hello fellow listservers, > > >> > > >> my name's Rebecca Weaver, and I have been a > > "lurker" on the list-serv > > >> here > > >> since the spring, and while I have been inspired > > by the conversations > > >> here, > > >> haven't yet had a chance to join in. I'm a poet > > and grad student in > > >> the > > >> twin cities of a very cold (wind chill 45 below > > today!) Minnesota. > > >> One > > >> component of my research is to explore how > > different poets / groups of > > >> poets interact. I'd love to hear your reaction > > (either immediate / > > >> emotional or otherwise) to the following > > question: > > >> > > >> Garrison Keillor will begin a new series through > > Minnesota Public > > >> Radio on > > >> "literary friendships" (you might be interested > > in seeing how's he's > > >> framed the series; to quote his radio plug: > > "writing is a solitary > > >> pursuit, > > >> and that makes literary friendships all the > > sweeter" > > >> www.literaryfriendships.publicradio.org). The > > first conversation is > > >> between Robert Bly and Donald Hall. > > >> > > >> SO, would you attend the first conversation? > > Would you buy a ticket? > > >> Would you go if someone gave you a free ticket? > > If you wouldn't go, > > >> what > > >> would you do instead? > > >> > > >> > > >> Please feel free to post your response to the > > list or backchannel me > > >> (weave049@umn.edu) > > >> > > >> Thanks, and stay warm. > > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > "and now it's winter in America" > > > --Gil Scott-Heron > > > > > > > > > Aldon Lynn Nielsen > > > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American > > Literature > > > Department of English > > > The Pennsylvania State University > > > 116 Burrowes > > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > > > (814) 865-0091 [office] > > > > > > (814) 863-7285 [Fax] > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > -- Anastasios Kozaitis 3063 29th Street Astoria, NY 11102 kozaitis@gmail.com m: 917 572 6561 h: 718 267 7943 w: 212 327 8696 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:59:47 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Murray, Christine" Subject: Greetings from chris murray's Texfiles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, All-- New to Texfiles this week:=20 (http://texfiles.blogspot.com) --from Chris Vitiello, Texfiles Poet of the Week: poem-a-day from his = new manuscript, *Irresponsibility*, as well as an audioblog: Chris reads = from "sentences for use." Chris blogs at The Delay: = http://the_delay.blogspot.com --from Francis Ponge, "The Sun as a Spinning Top" --from Philippe Soupault, "Poems from San Pelagia Prison" --Dept of Syllabus Celestial (grateful for the link, found via Tim = Botta's blog, Nice Guy Syndrome: http://giuseppeblog.blogspot.com), a = page from Allen Ginsberg's syllabus for his 1977 Naropa course, = "Celestial Homework". Additionally, a nicely informative comment from = Guillermo Parra (http://venepoetics.blogpsot.com), in tribute, about his = experiences learning in a Ginsberg course (1993). =20 --a query from me as to whether anyone has seen the Swiss film, = "Conversation in the Mountains" (Mattias Caduff: 2000), about Paul = Celan's short story on the topic of expecting to meet with Theodor = Adorno in 1959, and not being able to. If you have seen the film, = please comment on texfiles, or backchannel me, to let me know how it is, = and what you think of it--thanks. --a chris murray googlie poem, "Dunno Kisses" --and as many other interesting bits, images, poems, and links as I can = find... Enjoy! Best Wishes, chris murray http://texfiles.blogspot.com http://e-po.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:20:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Let's Nominate for CA Laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Application/Nomination Deadline: January 31, 2005 Panel Dates: TBA=20 w The California Arts Council is designated to recommend individuals to the Governor for the position of Poet Laureate.=20 The role of the Poet Laureate is to spread the art of poetry and encourage literacy and learning in California. The Poet Laureate would provide a minimum of six public readings in urban and rural settings across the state and educate community, business, and state leaders about the value and importance of poetry and creative expression. Additionally, the candidate would undertake a significant cultural project that would extend through the term. One of the goals of the project must be to bring the poetic arts to students who might otherwise have little opportunity to be exposed to poetry. The California Poet Laureate may, and is encouraged to, coordinate his or her project with any similar project being undertaken by the current United States' Poet Laureate. Any other reasonable activities as agreed to mutually by the Poet Laureate and the Arts Council. After being appointed by the Governor and confirmed by the State Senate, the Poet Laureate would serve for a term of two (2) years beginning in 2005. How to Nominate Poet Laureate nominations may come from qualified people in the field of Literature (poets may self-nominate) and MUST be mailed to: California Arts Council c/o Mr. Ray Tatar 1300 I Street, Suite 930 Sacramento, CA 95814 NOMINATIONS must contain:=20 1. A cover letter from the nominating organization or individual describing the qualifications of the nominating organization or individual.=20 2. The name and biography of the poet to be nominated (300 words maximum). A competitive biography would include a summary of significant awards and published literary works.=20 3. A summary of no more than a half-page indicating why the nominator considers the poet's work to be of the highest quality and representative of the State of California.=20 4. Complete contact information for the nominated poet.=20 5. Confirmation indicating that the nominator has contacted the nominated poet and that the poet has reviewed the job description and agrees to the nomination.=20 6. Three (3) poems by the nominated individual typed on 8 =BD" x 11" paper single-sided.=20 Eligibility Nominees must have lived in California for at least 10 years. Deadline No materials will be returned. Nominations must be received at the Arts Council by 5:00 p.m. January 31, 2005. For clarifications (but not nominations, which must be sent to the above address), e-mail Ray Tatar at rtatar@caartscouncil.com. Review Criteria The Poet Laureate will be a poet who is recognized for excellence of his/her work, is widely considered to be a poet of stature, has a significant body of published work, and agrees to serve for a period of two years. Review Process Each nomination will be reviewed by the Arts Council staff for completeness. Incomplete nominations may not be considered. The Arts Council functions with the assistance of the peer panel review system. The Poet Laureate panel will comprised of no less than three (3) representatives of the poetry community chosen from the Literature panelists and presented to the Arts Council at a scheduled public meeting for approval.=20 Poets, poetry presenters and literary experts will meet to discuss the merits of each nominee and how they relate to the criteria. They will create a ranked list and the panel will present the top three nominees to Governor's Office for approval. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:40:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: P.S. At Least We Died Trying to Make You in the Backset of a Taxidermist... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ... "P.S. At Least We Died Trying to Make You in the Backset of a Taxidermist," a collaborative chapbook of art, text and post scriptum by Wendy Collin Sorin and Derek White, is now available through Calamari Press. For a sneak peak, excerpts were recently published in: Diagram > http://thediagram.com/4_6/sorrin-white.html Generator > http://www.generatorpress.com/pages/24/index.htm Zunái > http://www.officinadopensamento.com.br/zunai/poemas/visuais_derek_white.htm Copies are available for $6 from the Calamari Press site or through Powell's. http://www.calamaripress.com/PS.htm P.P.S. At least we died trying to make you in the backset of a taxidermist. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:41:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Weak As Roses: Wherein The Most Transparent Deception Is Yet A Cipher Undaunted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed harmonious unforgivingness! thousands had done worse to all that slender name, Virginia, may they go in flutters, furious, furious they as my whipped crave and, clanking, clanking, themselves die, w/ "farewell, descended thee!, farewell, we cherished the clay, smiled at the marble" their clamorously strewn hour has, since, empurpled the path - "O din fade, fade!" above the name is this scene? this scene of harmonious unforgivingness? my heart an owl? enough!, the littlest mouth's moss relents, and unanxious silver falls in drifty spheres - "obey, books, Blue and the Patient, leave off twitching Virginia's pale understandments, until, thirdly and finally, moss cinches all our lips and o'erbalances that slender name..." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:10:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Interrupt your Routines Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines , spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, Camille Bacos Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interrupt your routines long enough to intersect 4 newly published works by Maria Damon & mIEKAL aND at The Poet's Corner http://www.fieralingue.it/ modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=152 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:29:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: Re: and the Kabbala Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it." -- Don Marquis =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:29:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: Poiesotomy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poiesotomy Combination of them will turn out to publish and the best way to get prose which I am going to try to boring, but I hope that if I schools don't want people who can it on my job applications. The if I putting it back together. The cut up paste it back together and see if it enough to get published so I can put get teaching jobs and tenure and clock is right twice a day. I need to get things published in order to rearrange the words enough some make look like an interesting poem by arbitrarily cutting it up and be interesting enough to get will cut this up now and then I will is what I am going to do too. So I else is doing and this is what residence position this summer. Workshop appointments, because technique is forty years old and is published is to do what everyone everyone else is doing now so this turns into something interesting. This= is a quite ordinary piece of write they want people who can am lucky I will get a writer in published. After all, even a stopped be interesting enough to get technique is forty years old and is this is a quite ordinary piece of will cut this up now and then I will publish and the best way to get is what I am going to do too. So I combination of them will turn out to putting it back together. The cut up clock is right twice a day. I need schools don't want people who can workshop appointments, because published. After all, even a stopped turns into something interesting published is to do what everyone rearrange the words enough some write they want people who can boring, but I hope that if I to get things published in order to am lucky I will get a writer in paste it back together and see if it get teaching jobs and tenure and prose which I am going to try to everyone else is doing now so this else is doing and this is what it on my job applications. The if I enough to get published so I can put make look like an interesting poem residence position this summer. By arbitrarily cutting it up and be interesting enough to get boring, but I hope that if I schools don't want people who can prose which I am going to try to get teaching jobs and tenure and by arbitrarily cutting it up and workshop appointments, because this is a quite ordinary piece of publish and the best way to get am lucky I will get a writer in turns into something interesting rearrange the words enough some write they want people who can published is to do what everyone residence position this summer. Else is doing and this is what paste it back together and see if it combination of them will turn out to putting it back together. The cut up it on my job applications. The if I clock is right twice a day. I need will cut this up now and then I will technique is forty years old and is make look like an interesting poem is what I am going to do too. So I published. After all, even a stopped enough to get published so I can put everyone else is doing now so this to get things published in order to. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:39:40 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: Interrupt your Routines In-Reply-To: <32846228-6692-11D9-8A19-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i suppose you had to be there i can imagine these poems as late night dialogues. Oh and did i mention drugs. i have enough trouble with words i am familiar with but that's just me in the eighties i used to have arguments with post- modernists at parties there is no sense to it, i'd say now i understand that what they were trying to say is there is no sense to it. komninos zervos -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 14/01/05 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 03:27:22 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: Dirty Little Secret MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >You will soon notice that the most admired people have very strong vocabularies. < Sadly, sad to say, not true. Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry" To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 5:12 PM Subject: Dirty Little Secret Dear Mr. President: I understand you say you now see that tough talk can really have "unintended consequences", that you now express misgivings for 2 of your most famous expressions: "Bring 'em on," & "Osama Bin Laden: Wanted, Dead or Alive." Well, Mr. President... it's a dirty little secret but people judge you by the words you use. Be assured that nothing makes a stronger, longer-lasting impression than a cogent command of the English language. Just keep your ears open. You will soon notice that the most admired people have very strong vocabularies. To advance in your career, your vocabulary level must surpass that of your peers. Career counselors concur that verbal mastery is directly linked to career advancement. Even if you are more qualified than the next person, count on the person with the keen vocabulary to win. fair, or not, the world responds to words. After all, haven't you ever felt intimidated by that someone using words you don't know? I know you have. I know you have felt lost in a fog. While you're expanding considerable mental energy trying to figure it out, the conversation advances around you. You are immediately out of step. A better vocabulary guarantees keeping up with the best of them. If you want to "play" with "the big boys" you better be ready to then match their vocabulary. You see, a powerful vocabulary can be like wearing a powersuit to a meeting. It says that you mean bsiness; it projects strength; it gives you the edge. A strong vocabulary is a powersuit that anyone can don at a moment's notice. You can see dominant people use language to: 1.) get what they want; 2.) control the conversation; 3.) man- ipulate others; 4.) exert superiority. I do not advocate bullying people. rather, use carefully chosen words to communicate clearly, accur- ately, and effectively. A strong vocabulary will protect stength and confidence even in stressful situations. Vocabulary operates positively or negatively in many areas of your life. Have you ever been humiliated by butchering the language or fustrated at not being able to come up with the right word? How did that affect you? How did that affect you later in the day in other parts of your life. Where you less confident? Did you try to second guess yourself? Did you become irritable? While a strong verbal advantage removes obstacles and accelerates goal achievement, a weak vocabulary handicaps and stymies. If you cannot express ideas eloquently, if you hesitate because of uncertainty about the right word, you will appear less than competent and under-quali- fied. Rewards, recognition, and promotion could pass you by. Please remember, your vocabulary already works for or against you one way or anoth- er. Might as well have it work for you in as many ways as possible. Respectively, Gerald Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:06:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: luge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed luge jb-dd j-f-aa a-di-aa b-f-jj b-ack-aa b-allet-bb c--bb c-loud-cc d-dell-cc d-iaryb drawalk-bb e-dge-aa e-verjb-gg f--aa f-rac-aa g-eo-gg j-leo-bb m-ountjj-dd n-e-ww n-ikaj nik-dd n-ike-jj n-ik-ff p-bjajjj-aa p-eni-ss p-olyc-bb p-otepoe-tt s-intan-bb s-tara strom-aa s-un-bb t-esta-gg t-est-bb t-est-dd t-est-hh y-ours-jj a--hh a-lbaal-aa a-nimala archaea-bb a-shur-aa a-zbaal-aa b-bbreast-bb b-irth-aa b-onze-jj b-uffalo-cc c-har cloudc-aa c-olg-aa c-oralj-ff c-ore-aa c-rown-ee c-ulture-aa c-ybidellc-aa d-octorja du-pp e-ch-oo e-x-ee f-alls-ee f-ffff-jj f-il-mm f-loodj-gg f-lush-aa g-glas-bb h-hack hol-dd i-inmale-cc j--jj j--qq j--vv k--bb k-imonoj-a a k--jj l-aguna-aa l-and-ff l--bb l-eona l-ff l--jj l--m ll-ob-ee l--pp l-u-zz m-ah-bb m--bb m-easure-aa m-ens-aa m--ff m--jj m-oodb moss-bb m--pp m--vv m--zz n--bb n-ebula-aa n-et-jj n-eta-jj n-et-bb n--ff n-ightj-aa n-ightji nikn-ff n--jj n-ode-bb n--pp n-vobject-aa o-ntic-aa o-pporigin-aa p-araaa-aa p-athiah pearl-aa p-olyjjg-hh p-olya-cc p-olyc-aa p-oly-ee p-ool-b b q-river-ss s-seama skeinj-aa s-ta-rr s-y-mm t-ai-ll t-a-oo t-ao-jj t-heory-aa t-hungaj-bb t-re-ee t-ub-bb t-z u-uu v-ir-bb v-oi-dd w-avea-jj w-aveb-jj w-ave-dd w-ing-bb w-oll-bb w-orld-aa w-tc-aa y-h _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:40:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Interrupt your Routines In-Reply-To: <000001c4fab3$d8806680$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Friday, January 14, 2005, at 09:39 PM, K Zervos wrote: Komninos Thanks for interrupting your routine. I'll interrupt mine long enough to counter with a few biases of my own. > i suppose you had to be there Or not be there. Typically Maria & I are not even in the same physical space but interwriting via email. One of these poems was HOWEVER written together on a jet to SUNY-BUFFALO. > > i can imagine these poems as late night dialogues. Oh and did i mention > drugs. The drug here is an intrafusion of language, music & visual texture. The addiction is finding ways to put the MeaningChunks together in such a way that the SyllableMusic reveals new layer of TexTure. > > i have enough trouble with words i am familiar with You're trying too hard. If you go to a concert & listen to instrumental music are you listening & playing with the experience? Or are you trying to nail down the SingleBigIdea? > > but that's just me > > in the eighties i used to have arguments with post- modernists at > parties Me too. Much PoMo stops too short of making deep ExtraHuman connections. The birds, the fungi, the cetaceans are telling us something but we're too mummified by our usage of language to listen, to understand. > > there is no sense to it, i'd say > > now i understand that what they were trying to say is > > there is no sense to it. Can't help you there, everyone brings something else to the table. Very early on I became absorbed in Cage's approach to encountering a work of art: to empty one's self of preconceptions, likes, dislikes, aesthetic profiling & hear & see what exists apart from the habitual judgments that flood our every moment. Hope your digging yr tropical digs, we're in the middle of -40C with windchill. ~mIEKAL "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 04:49:39 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Shore Poets Subject: Re: a little help? In-Reply-To: <200501141728.j0EHSPJY026064@dingo.software.umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From my reviewing days, the metric is: would go again even if I had to buy my own ticket and go to the neighbouring city, to, wouldn't go again if the tickets and taxi were free. :P > SO, would you attend the first conversation? Would you buy a ticket? > Would you go if someone gave you a free ticket? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:35:19 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: a little help? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I once had an revealing conversation with Bly about regularization tactics used in translating Vincente Alexandre I had a boring talk with Hall about oats. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 01:39:11 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pic snow buddha hangs on ex's frig 'ello new year.... will be 3:00....a wrd a...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:10:02 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: and the Kabbala MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ok the cat may as well exit the bag - this strange person called Richard Taylor1 wrote the email about the Kabbalah - but Richard Taylor2 (as I have confirmed in conversation) has no opinions either way on the Kabbala. Richard Taylor1 says that he was a bit annoyed in that various people misinterpreted not only the method and the madness -oops: but the message (he means going back to his original sortie about finding a book by a certain David Meltzer and then seeing that David Meltzer was (had been "posted" up ) on epc, and asking what people thought about D M, and no one replying until - in fact - R16 says - he sent the silly email about Bach etc (but its NOT completely silly - Richard7 says it was brilliant - Richard 22 doesn't agree - he feels it was not good and Richard24 just shrugged his shoulders) - - if there was one (they mean "a method"): in his ongoing saga of discovering a book - "Two-way Mirror" by David Meltzer: Richard1 maintains - please please - NO hierarchy is imposed by the enumerations of the Richard Taylor's - ( I repeat NO hierarchy !!) that any view is valid even an invalid one - he says he is up to page 131 of the book in question when he rudely was interrupted by himself getting (or was it Richard 45?) a little irate and naughty about hearing too much about kabbalas (over the years) but he says he feels no feelings either for or against kabbalas...BUT the sending of the email in question did in fact get some attention for some of the Richards and this is pleasurable - as it is or can be conceded that - even if no "progress" as such is made - it is good that Richard or some of the Richards get some attention and pleasure in this brief - all to brief - sojourn in Mucksville .... In fact on analysing The Bard's Enigma on page115 - with statements such as There is nothing truly hidden but what is not conceivable; There is nothing conceivable but what is immeasurable etc (There are further premises) The interesting conclusion (well it was interesting when he first derived it - sometimes it's not so interesting - Richard11 avers it is totally absurd - and other Richards were heard to mutter "drivel" "pff"! - "f- off!" and so on) was thus derived: eg if I let "nothing truly hidden" be H and let "not conceivable" be C and let "immeasurable" be I etc he was able to use Carolingian (Lewis Carol's logical method) Categorical logic the conclusion is that - God can only exist if he or it or she is conceivable AND God can only exist if God is inconceivable - which is the Bard's Enigma - the paradox. Earlier Meltzer himself "rails" a bit against logic - prefers the words ontological and phenomelogical to logical and so on - but the ensuing discussion on a page 117 on of the Pardes from the Torah is fascinating -or interesting at least -and leads to some great prose/poetry. And a good story. Here is a great poem Richard Taylor5 wrote (>Age of birth by 4 - Modulo 48): Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor He says that it is on the greatest and most important subjects in the (or his) Universe but it may not come out onto the List in the perfectly rectangular form he so dearly desired. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 3:12 AM Subject: Re: and the Kabbala > richard: > i'm afraid in this case you don't know what you're talking about, you > are offending people whose tradition this is, and it wd be better for > you listen a bit on this score before offering an opinion due to your > ignorance. > > with best wishes, md > > At 12:31 AM +1300 1/14/05, richard.tylr wrote: > >And I'm sick of hearing about the Kabbala and all that shamanitic > >crap - "The kabbala" - Ha! More like "The Old Cobblers" HA! > > > >Richard Taylor > > > -- > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:25:19 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now( from a blind man) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Good on ya mate". ( As/was/is said on the ongoing Speights advert -on NZ TV - Speights is a dark beer drunk in the South Island by "real men" - actually also consumed in the North Island (by certain brave individuals)) - I inhabit the North Island and am thus referred to by South Islanders - in this I mean that they refer to themselves as Mainlanders - the reason wherewith for by this being that the South Island is bigger than the North Island) Richard Taylor55 (New Zealand) PS Steve - Iike your style !! Great stuff ! Admire the cut of your jib .... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Dalachinksy" To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 7:55 PM Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now( from a blind man) > this really astounds me and pisses me off tricky dicky what the frigg > and i'm being polite here do mean yer suspect of poets who like jazz too > much or whatever nonsense puked forth from your lips shit that put my > 45yrs of listening and learning about that music right out the window > wow taylor you're so far off must of been something your grandparents > ate... shit tyler jazz ain't high art like bach uch who taught you that > some old kkk baptist cracker? ask bach what he thinks go on tyler ask > i've been trying more and more not to get involved in the stupid rants of > no nothing academia on this list or should i say know it all academia > sexiest bad poem of year awards continual anti-semitic tirades even by > jews uch and now this insulting your culture's greatest art form or are > you a foreigner? meltzer whose work i know slightly and who puts out a > great zine on jazz all written by poets called shuffle boil and who has > published an entire book of poems based on lester young (know him rich?) > would take exception to what you say as i do and many out there reading > your HAHA funny e-mail of which i don't see the point in your even > having posted, would. first you find melter then read then ask about him > then insult one of his main reasons for creaing and existing eveidently > mine too. boy did you hit a nerve drac. disgusting boy uneducated > slop young man and i do sincerely hope you're at least 12 and have not > yet reached manhood so you can be forgiven and possibly educated > properly. oh and hey boy we love bach too us jazz snobs > > > dig those cello suites daddy > > guys like you put mingus in hell ya prejudiced bastard i got lots more > to add but why bother shit man get your shit together low art > high art > 43 more inane messages to look at tonight > > jazz is my religion as the great poet ted joans would say > > and it one element that effects alot of our work profoundly > > and as far as the kabballa (oops) goes mr madonna you try sittin in a > cave for all that time > and see if you come up with anything better > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:56:04 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Interrupt your Routines In-Reply-To: <000001c4fab3$d8806680$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do I like this answer or does this answer get on my nerves, and if it gets on my nerves, why does it get on my nerves? Regards, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admirers. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:39:40 +1000, K Zervos wrote: > i suppose you had to be there > > i can imagine these poems as late night dialogues. Oh and did i mention > drugs. > > i have enough trouble with words i am familiar with > > but that's just me > > in the eighties i used to have arguments with post- modernists at parties > > there is no sense to it, i'd say > > now i understand that what they were trying to say is > > there is no sense to it. > > komninos zervos > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 14/01/05 > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:30:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: a little help? Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I had that talk with Hall about oats also. Here's the poem I wrote when I went home somewhat agog to my apartment: OATMEAL SONG Give me an oatmeal bath Come take an oatmeal bath with me Oatmeal dry or wet Oatmeal makes you free Oatmeal Oatmeal Oatmeal Oatmeal Oatmeal I will knit you an oatmeal sweater I will knit you a sweater of oatmeal When you go to college I will knit you an oatmeal sweatshirt I kid you not! I kid you not! [Chorus] Oatmeal Oatmeal Oatmeal Oatmeal Oatmeal We will live in an oatmeal land I will read you oatmeal books We will wallow in oatmeal baths Oatmeal will be our bed & when the time comes To bury you, my love I will bury you in oatmeal In oatmeal I will bury you Oatmeal Oatmeal Oatmeal Oatmeal Oatmeal [Repeat chorus] Come to the oatmeal gate Down the winding oatmeal road Come see the sun set in its oatmeal bowl Come see the rise of the oatmeal moon My love Oatmeal! Oatmeal! >>> David Baratier 01/15/05 12:35 AM >>> I once had an revealing conversation with Bly about regularization tactics used in translating Vincente Alexandre I had a boring talk with Hall about oats. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:50:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Jazz not High Art? Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed how might one assume that Bach is "better" than Thelonious Monk... strange revelation that argument might cause...I woke up this morning and listened to Albert Ayler and washed it down with Beethoven, neither "better" i.e., more sophisticated? hey right on Steve Dalachinsky I'm down but weren't most of those jazz cats pretty high when they recorded that stuff? so that's pretty high art or maybe just medium high (sort of mid level) then the highest art would be mountain chants or something, right? hard to breathe though at highest elevations whew why do jazz arteests always get disrespect in America? misunderstanding abounds in USA high art low art methinks deja view here in this argument who could judge excuse my typos please, thanks "...if you gotta ask you'll never know, etc" --Louis Armstrong _________ very sincerely, Larry Sawyer Gerry Mulligan Cecil Taylor Miles Davis Sun Ra Dizzy Gillespie Jelly Roll Morton Chet Baker Andrew Hill Bix Beiderbecke Eric Dolphy Joe Henderson Ed Blackwell Ornette Coleman Wayne Shorter Thelonious Monk Gary Bartz Anthony Braxton Dave Brubeck Art Blakey Paul Desmond Duke Ellington Peter Erskine Gigi Gryce Charlie Hayden David Grisman Maynard Ferguson Keith Jarrett Rahsaan Roland Kirk Steve Lacy John Lewis Bud Powell Jean-Luc Ponty Sonny Sharrock Woody Shaw, etc ________________________ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 01:5:43 -0500 From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just Now( from a blind man) this really astounds me and pisses me off tricky dicky what the frigg and i'm being polite here do mean yer suspect of poets who like jazz too much or whatever nonsense puked forth from your lips shit that put my 45yrs of listening and learning about that music right out the window wow taylor you're so far off must of been something your grandparents ate... shit tyler jazz ain't high art like bach uch who taught you that some old kkk baptist cracker? ask bach what he thinks go on tyler ask i've been trying more and more not to get involved in the stupid rants of no nothing academia on this list or should i say know it all academia sexiest bad poem of year awards continual anti-semitic tirades even by jews uch and now this insulting your culture's greatest art form or are you a foreigner? meltzer whose work i know slightly and who puts out a great zine on jazz all written by poets called shuffle boil and who has published an entire book of poems based on lester young (know him rich?) would take exception to what you say as i do and many out there reading your HAHA funny e-mail of which i don't see the point in your even having posted, would. first you find melter then read then ask about him then insult one of his main reasons for creaing and existing eveidently mine too. boy did you hit a nerve drac. disgusting boy uneducated slop young man and i do sincerely hope you're at least 12 and have not yet reached manhood so you can be forgiven and possibly educated properly. oh and hey boy we love bach too us jazz snobs dig those cello suites daddy guys like you put mingus in hell ya prejudiced bastard i got lots more to add but why bother shit man get your shit together low art high art 43 more inane messages to look at tonight jazz is my religion as the great poet ted joans would say and it one element that effects alot of our work profoundly and as far as the kabballa (oops) goes mr madonna you try sittin in a cave for all that time and see if you come up with anything better ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 12:11:17 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: and the Kabbala In-Reply-To: <00c401c4fad9$9dcfb920$2ee236d2@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Kabbala Wash away my email, wash away my post With the texts in Kabbala Wash away my server, wash away my host With the texts in Kabbala Everyone is hateful, everyone is mean With the texts in Kabbala Everyone is sucky, everyone is obscene With the texts in Kabbala How does your plight whine With the texts of Kabbala How does your plight whine With the texts of Kabbala I can tell my sister how she's blinded by the lies With the texts of Kabbala I can tell my brother how he's blinded by the lies With the texts of Kabbala How does your plight whine With the texts of Kabbala How does your plight whine With the texts of Kabbala ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:10:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: and the Kabbala Comments: To: marcus@designerglass.com In-Reply-To: <41E90865.14548.900D2A@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" you're leaving out the wolfish AAA-OOOO-yeah yeah yeah choruses. now can we stop being mean to the kabbala? it has a long history from before madonna got involved. and as far as i know it never inspired any mass killings or swords-point conversions. At 12:11 PM -0500 1/15/05, Marcus Bales wrote: >Kabbala > >Wash away my email, wash away my post >With the texts in Kabbala >Wash away my server, wash away my host >With the texts in Kabbala > >Everyone is hateful, everyone is mean >With the texts in Kabbala >Everyone is sucky, everyone is obscene >With the texts in Kabbala > >How does your plight whine >With the texts of Kabbala >How does your plight whine >With the texts of Kabbala > >I can tell my sister how she's blinded by the lies >With the texts of Kabbala >I can tell my brother how he's blinded by the lies >With the texts of Kabbala > >How does your plight whine >With the texts of Kabbala >How does your plight whine >With the texts of Kabbala -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:43:35 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noemata@KUNST.NO Subject: Books Comments: To: arc.hive@anart.no, e@e-kunst.no, list@rhizome.org, nettime-ann@nettime.org, syndicate@anart.no, wryting-l@listserv.utoronto.ca Comments: cc: 110@kunst.no, bb@bek.no, empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au Books Many formulations at noemata are centered around books as a way of capsulating works that otherwise might seem ephemeral, immaterial, marginal, contextual, conceptual, having no outside. The notion of a book is also abstracted to mean merely a set of documents containing its ISBN number. In that sense they're networked books, net.books, with an inverted form/content relation, as books turned inside-out. This is made possible with networked, digital media especially, and is also a (tauto-)logical consequence of operating with unique book numbers in ISBN, ie. if a number defines a book then let a number define a book. Read more at http://noemata.net/books The books are also open-ended works with a communal, participatory basis and released as copyleft if nothing else is stated. They're structured as mailinglists, blogs, web archives, folders, programs, etc, in different files and formats. Formats are chosen for readability and easy access. ASCII text-files are when possible also made compatible with unix mbox format (mail-format) and can thereby be imported into a mail client and read as mail. Below is a list of entrance points to some of the open books at noemata. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Open books ISBN 82-92428-25-9 http://noemata.net/html.html http://groups-beta.google.com/group/noemata - subscribe: noemata-subscribe@googlegroups.com This is a high volume book of the other open books. ISBN 82-92428-05-4 http://noemata.net/lumber http://groups-beta.google.com/group/lumber - subscribe: lumber-subscribe@googlegroups.com ISBN 82-92428-06-2 http://noemata.net/ideareal http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ideareal - subscribe: ideareal-subscribe@googlegroups.com ISBN 82-92428-08-9 http://noemata.net/wreathus http://groups-beta.google.com/group/wreathus - subscribe: wreathus-subscribe@googlegroups.com ISBN 82-92428-10-0 http://noemata.net/log http://groups-beta.google.com/group/log4 - subscribe: log4-subscribe@googlegroups.com ISBN 82-92428-13-5 
.txt
http://noemata.net/pre.txt
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/pre-txt
- subscribe: pre-txt-subscribe@googlegroups.com

ISBN 82-92428-18-6 0xt
http://noemata.net/hexture
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/hexture
- subscribe: hexture-subscribe@googlegroups.com

ISBN 82-92428-19-4
http://noemata.net/nkb
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/nkb4
- subscribe: nkb4-subscribe@googlegroups.com
Mostly norwegian material.

ISBN 82-92428-28-3
http://auto.noemata.net
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/autonoemata
- subscribe: autonoemata-subscribe@googlegroups.com

ISBN 82-92428-39-9
http://noemata.net/cached_text
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/cached_text
- subscribe: cached_text-subscribe@googlegroups.com

ISBN 82-92428-40-2
http://noemata.net/lokal_kopi
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/lokal_kopi
- subscribe: lokal_kopi-subscribe@googlegroups.com

ISBN 82-92428-41-0
http://noemata.net/nook
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/nook
- subscribe: nook-subscribe@googlegroups.com


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Other books from noemata include -

. ISBN 82-92428-00-3 noemata: actcharon plew thus. anetologyM||||m-mm||
  url: http://noemata.net/1996-2002

. ISBN 82-92428-01-1 noemata: germ, in al. graphics 198_-2___
  url: http://noemata.net/germinal

. ISBN 82-92428-03-8 noemata: nosce-IPs. &graphics
  url: http://noemata.net/nosce-ips.html

. ISBN 82-92428-04-6 noemata: PAeiRiL Iamentities. mail art 1984-199-
  url: http://noemata.net/pi

. ISBN 82-92428-07-0 guru johnsen: blurB: Man Corridor Translated.paper

. ISBN 82-92428-09-7 guru johnsen: blurB: Man Corridor Translated.nett
  url: http://noemata.net/blurB

. ISBN 82-92428-11-9 noemata (ed.): the responser
  url: http://noemata.net/theresponser

. ISBN 82-92428-12-7 noemata: laburinteger. hypertext synth nihiloger
  url: http://noemata.net/laburint

. ISBN 82-92428-14-3 noemata (ed.): [rh-]s/h
  url: http://noemata.net/rhsh

. ISBN 82-92428-15-1 maria futura: dialoger
  url: http://noemata.net/maria/dialoger

. ISBN 82-92428-17-8 noemata: The Anyhr-ISBN-PNG Project
  url: http://noemata.net/anyhr/log

. ISBN 82-92428-20-8 noemata (ed.): mootics.
  url: http://noemata.net/mootics

. ISBN 82-92428-21-6 noemata (ed.): [hoc sensu art] rash maps
  url: http://noemata.net/rashmaps

. ISBN 82-92428-22-4 noemata: Ars Publica. net.art commerce
  url: http://arspublica.com

. ISBN 82-92428-23-2 rick bradley: Barcode Project
  url: http://www.rickbradley.com/barcode

. ISBN 82-92428-29-1 miekal and: -WritingDuchampsTitles/+WritingDubuffetsTitles
  url: http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki

. ISBN 82-92428-26-7 noemata: versjon
  url: http://noemata.net/versjon

. ISBN 82-92428-32-1 noemata: namespace
  url: http://noemata.net/namespace

. ISBN 82-92428-34-8 noemata: charspace
  url: http://noemata.net/charspace

. ISBN 82-92428-35-6 noemata: metamohriin
  url: http://noemata.net/metamohriin

. ISBN 82-92428-36-4 alan sondheim: Internet Text
  url: http://noemata.net/nettext

. ISBN 82-92428-37-2 noemata: extarea
  url: http://noemata.net/extarea

. ISBN 82-92428-38-0 noemata: ekstarie
  url: http://noemata.net/ekstarie


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
General

Noemata can be viewed as an open content server within art and new
technology, with an emphasis on net based, communal formulations.

Kindly supported 2002-3 by Norsk Kulturråd, Kunst og Ny Teknologi /
The Norwegian Council of Cultural Affairs, Art and New Technology.

Hosting generously provided by Kunstnett Norge/Artnet Norway.

Thanks to a number of people for supporting the efforts over time.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


Ombudsman,




__

isbn 82-92428-10-0
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 12:49:23 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Stephen Vincent 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Oatmeal? I rarely sing about my morning bowl.
I regularly feel guilty about spilling oatmeal in the grocery -
Out of the plastic scoop on to the floor. Somebody has to
Sweep up after me. A customer might fall and bruise their butt,
Elbow, whatever. Actually I feel potentially criminal without never (yet!)
Getting caught. In a rush, though I want Organic & the one you have to cook
the longest - 20 minutes, Irish vintage! - honestly, whatever it is, I still
cook it for little more than a minute. Of course, the big issues revolve
around the boredom of oatmeal. That is how to slaughter the bland stuff
-this stuff no doubt our attendants will later pour down our
geriatric throats while tied to our beds, toothless & not a sign or echo
Of a poem on the tongue. But, yes, slaughter I now do: skin & slice
bitter pippins or sweet fujis, throw in raisins, sliced bananas, brown
sugar, blackberry jam, blueberry yogurt, vanilla soy milk, each morning
I try each and every variation. Sometimes, just for blandishment -
when I am bored with the morning slaughter or depleted
Of each of my accoutrements, or as a reminder of what I've escaped,
I try a bowl of oatmeal plain impaled, barely visible under a pouring
of skim milk. One needs no further provocation to get back the grocery
to buy whatever will kill that terrible, tasteless boredom, to sweeten up,
To warm the morning, to provide this winter lift.


But Oatmeal shirts, pants, underwear, Mairead - Jeezus!
Isn't Hall & Oats a dumb, shellacky "top ten new country" band?
Nothing in their Oats for the last zillion years.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com



> I had that talk with Hall about oats also.  Here's the poem I wrote when
> I went home somewhat agog to my apartment:
>
> OATMEAL SONG
>
> Give me an oatmeal bath
> Come take an oatmeal bath with me
> Oatmeal dry or wet
> Oatmeal makes you free
>
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
>
> I will knit you an oatmeal sweater
> I will knit you a sweater of oatmeal
>
> When you go to college
> I will knit you an oatmeal sweatshirt
>
> I kid you not!
> I kid you not!
>
> [Chorus]
>
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
>
> We will live in an oatmeal land
> I will read you oatmeal books
> We will wallow in oatmeal baths
> Oatmeal will be our bed
>
> & when the time comes
> To bury you, my love
> I will bury you in oatmeal
> In oatmeal I will bury you
>
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
>
> [Repeat chorus]
>
> Come to the oatmeal gate
> Down the winding oatmeal road
> Come see the sun set in its oatmeal bowl
> Come see the rise of the oatmeal moon
> My love
>
> Oatmeal!
> Oatmeal!
>
>
>>>> David Baratier  01/15/05 12:35 AM >>>
> I once had an revealing conversation with Bly about
> regularization tactics used in translating Vincente Alexandre
>
> I had a boring talk with Hall about oats.
>
> Be well
>
> David Baratier, Editor
>
> Pavement Saw Press
> PO Box 6291
> Columbus OH 43206
> USA
>
> http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:04:25 -0700
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Tenney Nathanson 
Subject:      REMINDER POG: Dale Pendell TONIGHT at Ortspace
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

reminder:

POG=20
presents

DALE PENDELL READING

Saturday, January 15, 2005, 7:00 PM=20

Ortspace (east room, entry on alley)
121 E. 7th Street
Admission: $5 ($3students)

for further information contact POG: 615-7803,=20
mailto:pog@gopog.org or check our web site, www.gopog.org


DALE PENDELL=20

Dale Pendell is the author of Living with Barbarians, A Few Plant Poems, =
and
the acclaimed Pharmako trilogy, including Pharmako/Poeia: Plant Powers,
Poisons, & Herbcraft; Pharmako/Dynamis: Stimulating Plants; and
Pharmako/Gnosis (publication expected in 2005).

Allan Ginsberg described the first volume of the trilogy as "an epic =
poem on
plant humours, an abstruse alchemic treatise, an experiential narrative
jigsaw puzzle, a hip and learned wild-nature reference text, a comic =
paean
to cosmic consciousness, an ecological handbook, a dried-herb pastiche, =
a
countercultural encyclopedia of ancient fact and lore that cuts through =
the
present 'conservative' war-on-drugs psychobabble."

Terence McKenna wrote that "Dale Pendell reactivates the ancient =
connection
between the bardic poet and the shaman." His poetry has appeared in many
journals, and he was the founding editor of "KUKSU: Journal of =
Backcountry
Writing." He has led workshops on ethnobotany and ethnopoetics for the
Naropa Institute and the Botanical Preservation Corps, and has presented =
at
the Mind States conference. His performance group, Oracular Madness, =
most
recently appeared at Burning Man.

A software engineer as well as poet and student of ethnobotany, Pendell
recently noted that "one of the things I'm trying to do is trace Gnostic
wisdom tradition and higher spirituality through the western tradition. =
A
lot of my practice and background has been through Buddhism, and more =
the
vision quest, shamanistic religion, but I wanted to find a system of =
ideas
and to ground it in the western tradition also going through =
Alexandria."

Dale Pendell is in southern Arizona courtesy of Bisbee's Central School
Project:

CONTACT: Michael Gregory, 432-5374, centralschlprjct@theriver.com

Friday, January 14, 2005, 7:30 PM
Author Dale Pendell
Central School Project, Poets Voice Series
43 Howell Ave in Old Bisbee
Admission: $6 ($4 students with ID)

DALE PENDELL READING AT CSP, FRIDAY, JANUARY 14TH

On Friday evening, January 14th, Dale Pendell will read from his own =
work in

the Poets Voice series at Central School Project, in Old Bisbee. The=20
performance will start at 7:30 pm in the auditorium of the historic=20
facility at 43 Howell Ave. and be followed by a public reception and=20
book-signing.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:05:43 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         mIEKAL aND 
Subject:      Re: [_arc.hive_] Books
Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines 
In-Reply-To:  
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

WritingDubuffetsTitles is temporarily offline because shitwad hackers
blew it apart at the seems.  We need to install a new version of
phpWiki with version control.  I'll post when it's back up & going.
Also this project is the collective energies of about 15 people &
should probably be notated as such. & also also, the title
"WritingDuchampsTitles" is an alzheimers on my part & will eventually
be purged from the records.  Thanks Bjorn for providing the ISBN
framework to build these on.

~mIEKAL


On Saturday, January 15, 2005, at 02:43 PM,  wrote:

>
> . ISBN 82-92428-29-1 miekal and:
> -WritingDuchampsTitles/+WritingDubuffetsTitles
>   url: http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:29:05 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Aaron Belz 
Subject:      objective journal rankings -
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This may have been posted; if so, sorry.  I find it fascinating.

http://www.jefferybahr.com/Publications/PubRankings.asp


Aaron
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:37:26 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mairead Byrne 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Dear Stephen,

Oatmeal is an iconic substance in Ireland.  It's a long story.  Suffice
to say that my "Oatmeal Song" is only one of a huge body of songs on the
subject.  I was surprised to see Donald Hall so engaged with the
subject.   But then there's that wonderful poem of his, "Kicking the
Oatmeal."  And then that other wonderful poem  "A Supermarket in
California," to which your experience below surely relates.

Mairead

>>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 01/15/05 3:49 PM >>>
Oatmeal? I rarely sing about my morning bowl.
I regularly feel guilty about spilling oatmeal in the grocery -
Out of the plastic scoop on to the floor. Somebody has to
Sweep up after me. A customer might fall and bruise their butt,
Elbow, whatever. Actually I feel potentially criminal without never
(yet!)
Getting caught. In a rush, though I want Organic & the one you have to
cook
the longest - 20 minutes, Irish vintage! - honestly, whatever it is, I
still
cook it for little more than a minute. Of course, the big issues revolve
around the boredom of oatmeal. That is how to slaughter the bland stuff
-this stuff no doubt our attendants will later pour down our
geriatric throats while tied to our beds, toothless & not a sign or echo
Of a poem on the tongue. But, yes, slaughter I now do: skin & slice
bitter pippins or sweet fujis, throw in raisins, sliced bananas, brown
sugar, blackberry jam, blueberry yogurt, vanilla soy milk, each morning
I try each and every variation. Sometimes, just for blandishment -
when I am bored with the morning slaughter or depleted
Of each of my accoutrements, or as a reminder of what I've escaped,
I try a bowl of oatmeal plain impaled, barely visible under a pouring
of skim milk. One needs no further provocation to get back the grocery
to buy whatever will kill that terrible, tasteless boredom, to sweeten
up,
To warm the morning, to provide this winter lift.


But Oatmeal shirts, pants, underwear, Mairead - Jeezus!
Isn't Hall & Oats a dumb, shellacky "top ten new country" band?
Nothing in their Oats for the last zillion years.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com



> I had that talk with Hall about oats also.  Here's the poem I wrote
when
> I went home somewhat agog to my apartment:
>
> OATMEAL SONG
>
> Give me an oatmeal bath
> Come take an oatmeal bath with me
> Oatmeal dry or wet
> Oatmeal makes you free
>
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
>
> I will knit you an oatmeal sweater
> I will knit you a sweater of oatmeal
>
> When you go to college
> I will knit you an oatmeal sweatshirt
>
> I kid you not!
> I kid you not!
>
> [Chorus]
>
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
>
> We will live in an oatmeal land
> I will read you oatmeal books
> We will wallow in oatmeal baths
> Oatmeal will be our bed
>
> & when the time comes
> To bury you, my love
> I will bury you in oatmeal
> In oatmeal I will bury you
>
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
>
> [Repeat chorus]
>
> Come to the oatmeal gate
> Down the winding oatmeal road
> Come see the sun set in its oatmeal bowl
> Come see the rise of the oatmeal moon
> My love
>
> Oatmeal!
> Oatmeal!
>
>
>>>> David Baratier  01/15/05 12:35 AM >>>
> I once had an revealing conversation with Bly about
> regularization tactics used in translating Vincente Alexandre
>
> I had a boring talk with Hall about oats.
>
> Be well
>
> David Baratier, Editor
>
> Pavement Saw Press
> PO Box 6291
> Columbus OH 43206
> USA
>
> http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:57:41 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      Re: [_arc.hive_] Books
In-Reply-To:  <37FE96DA-6739-11D9-BFC2-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

thanks miekal. this collab means a lot to me so i appreciate
everyone's attempts to get it back up.

At 3:05 PM -0600 1/15/05, mIEKAL aND wrote:
>WritingDubuffetsTitles is temporarily offline because shitwad hackers
>blew it apart at the seems.  We need to install a new version of
>phpWiki with version control.  I'll post when it's back up & going.
>Also this project is the collective energies of about 15 people &
>should probably be notated as such. & also also, the title
>"WritingDuchampsTitles" is an alzheimers on my part & will eventually
>be purged from the records.  Thanks Bjorn for providing the ISBN
>framework to build these on.
>
>~mIEKAL
>
>
>On Saturday, January 15, 2005, at 02:43 PM,  wrote:
>
>>
>>. ISBN 82-92428-29-1 miekal and:
>>-WritingDuchampsTitles/+WritingDubuffetsTitles
>>   url: http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki


--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:17:20 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Stephen Vincent 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

The Irish Oatmeal "icon" - not unlike certain churches - has stuck itself up
wildly (well, that's probably not the word)  all over the breakfast tables
of America. Demographic studies probably would show families serving oatmeal
for breakfast have children of higher SAT scores that those of heavily
sugared cereals from General Mills.

But I should look at Donald Hall's poem. I don't see your connection between
my piece and AG in the Supermarket, tho I do appreciate the association!  I
wonder if Lorca - over there in the third aisle -  ever ate oatmeal? What a
thought! Not likely - mainly only among the Celts in Spain for a time?

I cannot even imagine Madonna eating oatmeal! No matter that Madonna might
be the Shirley Maclaine of the Kabala, I don't think she could ruin oatmeal,
icon or not. Oatmeal the great leveler!

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com
Where "Crossing the Millennium:1999" keeps unrolling
Day by day. Your visits are always welcome.









> Dear Stephen,
>
> Oatmeal is an iconic substance in Ireland.  It's a long story.  Suffice
> to say that my "Oatmeal Song" is only one of a huge body of songs on the
> subject.  I was surprised to see Donald Hall so engaged with the
> subject.   But then there's that wonderful poem of his, "Kicking the
> Oatmeal."  And then that other wonderful poem  "A Supermarket in
> California," to which your experience below surely relates.
>
> Mairead
>
>>>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 01/15/05 3:49 PM >>>
> Oatmeal? I rarely sing about my morning bowl.
> I regularly feel guilty about spilling oatmeal in the grocery -
> Out of the plastic scoop on to the floor. Somebody has to
> Sweep up after me. A customer might fall and bruise their butt,
> Elbow, whatever. Actually I feel potentially criminal without never
> (yet!)
> Getting caught. In a rush, though I want Organic & the one you have to
> cook
> the longest - 20 minutes, Irish vintage! - honestly, whatever it is, I
> still
> cook it for little more than a minute. Of course, the big issues revolve
> around the boredom of oatmeal. That is how to slaughter the bland stuff
> -this stuff no doubt our attendants will later pour down our
> geriatric throats while tied to our beds, toothless & not a sign or echo
> Of a poem on the tongue. But, yes, slaughter I now do: skin & slice
> bitter pippins or sweet fujis, throw in raisins, sliced bananas, brown
> sugar, blackberry jam, blueberry yogurt, vanilla soy milk, each morning
> I try each and every variation. Sometimes, just for blandishment -
> when I am bored with the morning slaughter or depleted
> Of each of my accoutrements, or as a reminder of what I've escaped,
> I try a bowl of oatmeal plain impaled, barely visible under a pouring
> of skim milk. One needs no further provocation to get back the grocery
> to buy whatever will kill that terrible, tasteless boredom, to sweeten
> up,
> To warm the morning, to provide this winter lift.
>
>
> But Oatmeal shirts, pants, underwear, Mairead - Jeezus!
> Isn't Hall & Oats a dumb, shellacky "top ten new country" band?
> Nothing in their Oats for the last zillion years.
>
> Stephen V
> Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com
>
>
>
>> I had that talk with Hall about oats also.  Here's the poem I wrote
> when
>> I went home somewhat agog to my apartment:
>>
>> OATMEAL SONG
>>
>> Give me an oatmeal bath
>> Come take an oatmeal bath with me
>> Oatmeal dry or wet
>> Oatmeal makes you free
>>
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>>
>> I will knit you an oatmeal sweater
>> I will knit you a sweater of oatmeal
>>
>> When you go to college
>> I will knit you an oatmeal sweatshirt
>>
>> I kid you not!
>> I kid you not!
>>
>> [Chorus]
>>
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>>
>> We will live in an oatmeal land
>> I will read you oatmeal books
>> We will wallow in oatmeal baths
>> Oatmeal will be our bed
>>
>> & when the time comes
>> To bury you, my love
>> I will bury you in oatmeal
>> In oatmeal I will bury you
>>
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>> Oatmeal
>>
>> [Repeat chorus]
>>
>> Come to the oatmeal gate
>> Down the winding oatmeal road
>> Come see the sun set in its oatmeal bowl
>> Come see the rise of the oatmeal moon
>> My love
>>
>> Oatmeal!
>> Oatmeal!
>>
>>
>>>>> David Baratier  01/15/05 12:35 AM >>>
>> I once had an revealing conversation with Bly about
>> regularization tactics used in translating Vincente Alexandre
>>
>> I had a boring talk with Hall about oats.
>>
>> Be well
>>
>> David Baratier, Editor
>>
>> Pavement Saw Press
>> PO Box 6291
>> Columbus OH 43206
>> USA
>>
>> http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:52:47 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Halvard Johnson 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Just in case you don't have/remember Stephen Dobyns take
on the subject--

Hal

Oatmeal Deluxe

This morning, because the snow swirled deep
around my house, I made oatmeal for breakfast.
At first it was runny so I added more oatmeal,
then it grew too thick so I added water.
Soon I had a lot of oatmeal. The radio
was playing Spanish music and I became
passionate: soon I had four pots of oatmeal.
I put them aside and started a new batch.
Soon I had eight pots. When the oatmeal cooled,
I began to roll it with my hands, making
small shapes: pigs and souvenir ashtrays. Then
I made a foot, then another, then a leg. Soon
I'd made a woman out of oatmeal with freckles
and a cute nose and hair made from brown sugar
and naked except for a necklace of raisins.
She was five feet long and when she grew harder
I could move her arms and legs without them
falling off. But I didn't touch her much--
she lay on the table--sometimes I'd touch her
with a spoon, sometimes I'd lick her in places
it wouldn't show. She looks like you, although
your hair is darker, but the smile is like yours,
and the eyes, although hers are closed. You say:
But what has this to do with me? And I should say:
I want to make more women out of Cream of Wheat.
But enough of such fantasy. You ask me
why I don't love you, why you can't
live with me. What can I tell you? If I
can make a woman out of oatmeal, my friend,
what trouble could I make for you, a woman?

--Stephen Dobyns




{    Dear Stephen,
{
{    Oatmeal is an iconic substance in Ireland.  It's a long story.  Suffice
{    to say that my "Oatmeal Song" is only one of a huge body of songs on the
{    subject.  I was surprised to see Donald Hall so engaged with the
{    subject.   But then there's that wonderful poem of his, "Kicking the
{    Oatmeal."  And then that other wonderful poem  "A Supermarket in
{    California," to which your experience below surely relates.
{
{    Mairead
{
{    >>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 01/15/05 3:49 PM >>>
{    Oatmeal? I rarely sing about my morning bowl.
{    I regularly feel guilty about spilling oatmeal in the grocery -
{    Out of the plastic scoop on to the floor. Somebody has to
{    Sweep up after me. A customer might fall and bruise their butt,
{    Elbow, whatever. Actually I feel potentially criminal without never
{    (yet!)
{    Getting caught. In a rush, though I want Organic & the one you have to
{    cook
{    the longest - 20 minutes, Irish vintage! - honestly, whatever it is, I
{    still
{    cook it for little more than a minute. Of course, the big issues revolve
{    around the boredom of oatmeal. That is how to slaughter the bland stuff
{    -this stuff no doubt our attendants will later pour down our
{    geriatric throats while tied to our beds, toothless & not a sign or echo
{    Of a poem on the tongue. But, yes, slaughter I now do: skin & slice
{    bitter pippins or sweet fujis, throw in raisins, sliced bananas, brown
{    sugar, blackberry jam, blueberry yogurt, vanilla soy milk, each morning
{    I try each and every variation. Sometimes, just for blandishment -
{    when I am bored with the morning slaughter or depleted
{    Of each of my accoutrements, or as a reminder of what I've escaped,
{    I try a bowl of oatmeal plain impaled, barely visible under a pouring
{    of skim milk. One needs no further provocation to get back the grocery
{    to buy whatever will kill that terrible, tasteless boredom, to sweeten
{    up,
{    To warm the morning, to provide this winter lift.
{
{
{    But Oatmeal shirts, pants, underwear, Mairead - Jeezus!
{    Isn't Hall & Oats a dumb, shellacky "top ten new country" band?
{    Nothing in their Oats for the last zillion years.
{
{    Stephen V
{    Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com
{
{
{
{    > I had that talk with Hall about oats also.  Here's the poem I wrote
{    when
{    > I went home somewhat agog to my apartment:
{    >
{    > OATMEAL SONG
{    >
{    > Give me an oatmeal bath
{    > Come take an oatmeal bath with me
{    > Oatmeal dry or wet
{    > Oatmeal makes you free
{    >
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    >
{    > I will knit you an oatmeal sweater
{    > I will knit you a sweater of oatmeal
{    >
{    > When you go to college
{    > I will knit you an oatmeal sweatshirt
{    >
{    > I kid you not!
{    > I kid you not!
{    >
{    > [Chorus]
{    >
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    >
{    > We will live in an oatmeal land
{    > I will read you oatmeal books
{    > We will wallow in oatmeal baths
{    > Oatmeal will be our bed
{    >
{    > & when the time comes
{    > To bury you, my love
{    > I will bury you in oatmeal
{    > In oatmeal I will bury you
{    >
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    > Oatmeal
{    >
{    > [Repeat chorus]
{    >
{    > Come to the oatmeal gate
{    > Down the winding oatmeal road
{    > Come see the sun set in its oatmeal bowl
{    > Come see the rise of the oatmeal moon
{    > My love
{    >
{    > Oatmeal!
{    > Oatmeal!
{    >
{    >
{    >>>> David Baratier  01/15/05 12:35 AM >>>
{    > I once had an revealing conversation with Bly about
{    > regularization tactics used in translating Vincente Alexandre
{    >
{    > I had a boring talk with Hall about oats.
{    >
{    > Be well
{    >
{    > David Baratier, Editor
{    >
{    > Pavement Saw Press
{    > PO Box 6291
{    > Columbus OH 43206
{    > USA
{    >
{    > http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:13:09 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: and the Kabbala
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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yo tricky you must be pretty bored out there in nz ( now that i know
where you're from you're almost forgiven)  jazz & jews ( 2 of meltzer's
callings) ain't from  your neck of the woods - must  be a foreign
substance to ya  ditto the creators of jazz   oh as chris pointed out
those maoris (oops) must play a mean piano  well as you said  you wanted
attention now you've gotten it
shit yer not even a mainlander this further explains things. a HIck.

JIBJIBJIBJIBJIBJIBJIBJIBIBJIBJIBJIBJIBJIBIBJIBJIBJIBJIBJIBJIBJIBJIBJIBJIB
JIBJIB

thanks for your last foolish self-indulgence  to once again  try to show
your brilliance
i'm sure the entire bach family would be proud as would
the taylor family

rock-a-bye poor baby rich
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:35:12 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: Jazz not High Art?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

according to people i know who knew ayler he was naturally high


anyway      it don't mean a thing if....................



yes larry  the most marginalized art


always gets the baddest (w)rap

but then sadly  for it   guys like marsalis  dredge it thru the muddy
past

bring it backward  a few  decades  but get it a prominant audience and
place

and place to reside

right across Trump tower # 2
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:19:20 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "Murray, Christine" 
Subject:      Re: Greetings from chris murray's Texfiles
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All--

I just realized that in the message I sent to the list
yesterday I had transposed two letters in one of the links. =20

My apologies, then, and the correct address=20
for Guillermo Parra's blog, Venepoetics, is

http://venepoetics.blogspot.com

Best,
chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Murray, Christine
Sent: Fri 1/14/2005 3:59 PM
To: poetics@listserv.buffalo.edu
Subject: Greetings from chris murray's Texfiles
=20

Hi, All--

New to Texfiles this week:=20

(http://texfiles.blogspot.com)

--from Chris Vitiello, Texfiles Poet of the Week: poem-a-day from his =
new manuscript, *Irresponsibility*, as well as an audioblog: Chris reads =
from "sentences for use."  Chris blogs at The Delay: =
http://the_delay.blogspot.com

--from Francis Ponge, "The Sun as a Spinning Top"

--from Philippe Soupault, "Poems from San Pelagia Prison"

--Dept of Syllabus Celestial (grateful for the link, found via Tim =
Botta's blog, Nice Guy Syndrome: http://giuseppeblog.blogspot.com), a =
page from Allen Ginsberg's syllabus for his 1977 Naropa course, =
"Celestial Homework".  Additionally, a nicely informative comment from =
Guillermo Parra (http://venepoetics.blogpsot.com), in tribute, about his =
experiences learning in a Ginsberg course (1993). =20

--a query from me as to whether anyone has seen the Swiss film, =
"Conversation in the Mountains" (Mattias Caduff: 2000), about Paul =
Celan's short story on the topic of expecting to meet with Theodor =
Adorno in 1959, and not being able to.  If you have seen the film, =
please comment on texfiles, or backchannel me, to let me know how it is, =
and what you think of it--thanks.

--a chris murray googlie poem, "Dunno Kisses"

--and as many other interesting bits, images, poems, and links as I can =
find...


Enjoy!

Best Wishes,
chris murray

http://texfiles.blogspot.com
http://e-po.blogspot.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:14:46 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      A neglected poet:  Benoy Majumdar
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Benoy Majumdar, an Indian poet who writes in Bengali, was born in 1934 an=
d
trained as an engineer and mathematician.   His poetry is characterized e=
ven
in translation by an immediately accessible appeal underlain by a conside=
rable
literary sophistication which.  Only a handful of his poems have been
published in English translation, primarily translated by Jyotirmoy Datta=
,
himself a distinguished poet.  These two lovely lyrics indicate Majumdar=E2=
=80=99s
mood and technique.

If you never come again, never blow through these steaming regions
like cooling drifts of the upper air, even that absence is an encounter.
Your absense is as of the blue rose
from the kingdom of flowers.  Who knows, some day
you may yet appear.  Maybe you have, only you are too close.
Can I smell my own hair?  =

Marvellous sights have been seen.
A full moon was to have risen last night --
only a quivering sickle appeared!
It was an eclipse.

                           -- translated by Jyotirmoy Datta

What is needed is a sudden turn
leaving the swift hand that plucks butterflies out of the air
gaping at a loss.
The others exist pale and ghostly as stars
brought to brief life by a total eclipse of the sun.
But I cannot change my course now; can the leopard
unspin its leap in midair?
Moreover, they may still be wrong.  She can yet appear.
Cream rises only if one lets boinling milk stand and cool.

                           -- translated by Jyotirmoy Datta

One of Majumdar's translators has said that his poetry "combines sensuali=
ty
with intellectual complexity and projects a sense of aesthetic refinement=
=2E"  A
fair enough assessment, but I find myself groping to explain their deeper=

appeal. Part of it is that I perceive in these pieces some traits which I=

value greatly in poetry.  They are intensely and directly emotional witho=
ut
being sentimental, thus forming a welcome contrast to so much contemporar=
y
poetry which seems to eschew the direct expression of emotion out of a te=
rror
of falling into sentimentality.  They possess an undisguised songfulness =
which
I assume the translator has brought over from the original; again, this s=
eems
to me like a fresh breeze compared to the pedestrian tone of so much curr=
ent
poetry.  They have a quality of surprise in the language, the poet=E2=80=99=
s way of
speaking at right angles to the ordinary and thus making you say =E2=80=9C=
I never
knew you could do that with words.=E2=80=9D   I think this quality is app=
arent in
the selections which I=E2=80=99ve just read; here are a couple more passa=
ges from
other of his poems where it is particularly striking:

The blue stone on my ring shimmers with unquenchable thirst.
I fear the day of my death will be one like this.

                      -- translated by Jyotirmoy Datta

Because in some distant age, you had an assassin
for enemy, you live like a rose encircled =

by thorns.  And I, like a letter gone astray,
have come to the wrong address.

                       -- translated by Ron D.  K.  Banerjee


A familiar mastery of tradition is one  mark of an excellent poet.  I can=
=E2=80=99t
speak with authority on the traditions of Bengali poetry: my only familia=
rity
with it comes the few English translations I have read.  But even from th=
at
limited experience it seems pretty clear what some of the major qualities=
 of =

both traditional and modern Bengali lyrics are: the use of exuberant imag=
es
from nature to express personal emotion, with the images often having a
lushness which contrasts poignantly with the sadness of the feelings they=
 are
used to express; a tone of seemingly  spontaneous songfulness used as a
vehicle for intellectually complicated ideas;  allusions to the love-stor=
ies
of the gods to illuminate the poet=E2=80=99s own situation; and motifs of=
 erotic
separation and longing which often are used as symbols for spiritual
deprivation.  Benoy Majumdar=E2=80=99s poetry seems to renew these tradit=
ional
characteristics by  recasting them into a modernistic, almost surrealist
poetic idiom

I haven=E2=80=99t paid much attention so far to the claimed intellectual =
complexity
of Benoy Majumdar=E2=80=99s work. Here is one poem which I think makes ex=
plicit some
of the paradoxes of the human condition  implicit in the other pieces I=E2=
=80=99ve
quoted:  that what we want most desperately is so deeply within us that w=
e
cannot find it, that as soon as we apprehend what we desire, it is gone, =
that
being born into reality is being expelled from the reality of forever int=
o the
delusion of now:

The pain remained with me a long time.
Finally the ancient root was cut --
from immersion I emerged blinking into light.
I am restored to health now though the season is gray.
Surgery everywhere; this tea table was once the flesh of a tree.

I have given up strewing grain on the ground
to have the birds join me at lunch.
Only when the baby is cut adrift
does it have its free hunger and thirst;
like taking off a blindfold to be confronted with =

a curtain, being born
into this vast uterus, lined with a sky porous with stars.

                        -- translated by Jyotirmoy Datta


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Bibliography:

Banerjee, Ron D. K.  trans. and ed.  Poetry From Bengal:  The Delta Risin=
g :
An anthology of Modern Bengali poetry.  London and Boston, Forest
Books/Unesco, 1989.  Includes "8th March 1960"  and "16th June 1961" by B=
inay
Mazumdar, pp. 128-129.

Dharwadker, Vinay, and Ramanujan, A.  K.  eds.  The Oxford Anthology of M=
odern
Indian Poetry.  Dehli, Oxford University Press, 1994.  Includes "Time Win=
s" by
Benoy Majumdar, tr.  Jyotirmoy Datta p.  72, and a brief biographical not=
e on
Binoy Majumdar p.  235.

Majumdar, Benoy.  Seven Poems by Benoy Mojumdar, tr. Jyotirmoy Datta. Hud=
son
Review v. 21 n. 4 (Winter 1968-1969), pp. 648-650.

Majumdar, Benoy.  "Had She Stopped to Look Back', tr. Jyotirmoy Datta. Ma=
lahat
Review, n. 13-16 p. 110.

Majumdar, Benoy.  "Poem Number One" tr. Arup Bose and "Poem Number Two," =
tr. =

Amitabha Dasgupta.  In Contemporary Bengali Literature and Poetry, ed. Gh=
ose
Sukumar. Calcutta, Academic Publisher, n.d. p. 127.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:06:45 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mark Weiss 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 05:17 PM 1/15/2005, you wrote:
>The Irish Oatmeal "icon" - not unlike certain churches - has stuck itself up
>wildly (well, that's probably not the word)  all over the breakfast tables
>of America. Demographic studies probably would show families serving oatmeal
>for breakfast have children of higher SAT scores that those of heavily
>sugared cereals from General Mills.

And less troubled with irregularity.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:12:36 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      Too much...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

too much lang po
too much g-d pounding on yr head


for relief
try Visconti's THE LEOPARD
at film forum

gorgioso amoroso.....drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 02:18:40 +0100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         noemata@KUNST.NO

to me
                by the chamber of commerce. It was given
http://kunst@noemata.net/pi/q14/.jpg 22k
http://kunst@noemata.net/pi/q14/th_235.jpg 3k
Nettime-bold@nettime.org
Nettime-bold mailing list
http://kunst@noemata.net/pi/q16/th_345.jpg 3k
it's like glue, and you
and the 'is'
http://kunst@noemata.net/pi/q16/356.jpg 24k
nnoaehlna kgl
aoulnakgl eyewash
these are very structured nothings
OCNICN GNIHTON GNI HE TT! T(UIHIIHTON
http://kunst@noemata.net/pi/q16/54.jpg 24k





__

nook isbn 82-92428-41-0
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:06:11 -0700
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jonathan Penton 
Subject:      oh, no,  you go have your fun, I'll just slave over the computer
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

All fans of www.unlikelystories.org are now required to give respect,
homage, and mad props to Danielle Grilli, our new Multimedia Director.
Danielle, who until recently served as Poetry Editor of the Muse
Apprentice Guild ( www.muse-apprentice-guild.com ), will be selecting
our music, movies, and visual art from this point forth. She will also
consider CDs and films for review. You can reach her at
danielle@unlikelystories.org (though art@unlikelystories.org and
music@unlikelystories.org will still work).

If you had outstanding submissions to our art and music departments, she
should already have them. Please, as always, wait at least five weeks to
query.

That's for her, anyway. I'm way behind. Sorry. Don't even query me
regarding text submissions until February, OK? I know I'm running late.

You can learn more about Danielle by clicking on MISSION/SUBMISSIONS,
and then on her name. Afterwards, check out the new update, complete with:

"From Liberty Cabbage to Freedom Fries," in which Matthew Flaming
discusses the circumstances in which an American leftist might consider war
Seven sociopolitical photomontages by David Branstrator
Eight drawings and paintings by Dee Rimbaud
"Foot Fetish," a creepy short movie by Michael Medaglia
Three electronica grooves by DJ;)(G4

...and new stuff at the Unlikely 2.0 store.

In my heart you'll always be forever young.

--
Jonathan Penton
http://www.unlikelystories.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:16:36 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      Re: objective journal rankings
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> This may have been posted; if so, sorry. I find it fascinating.

> http://www.jefferybahr.com/Publications/PubRankings.asp =


Now this is really splendid.  If these rankings become generally accepted=
,
they will prove extremely useful in all sorts of ways.

This usefulness would be enhanced if the literary community would agree o=
n a
common way to apply the rankings to individual poets.  I suggest the
following:

There are by my count 289 journals on the list. I propose that we assign =
each
journal a number based on this rank, from 289 for The Atlantic Monthly, t=
he
top ranked journal, to 1 for Wisconsin Review, which is last in line.  Th=
en
any individual poet could be assigned a number -- call it the Verse
Acceptability Prestige Denominator -- calculated by multiplying the numbe=
r of
pages of verse which that poet has published in each magazine by the
magazine's rank, and adding them together.

As an example, let us consider moderately successful hypothetical poet na=
med
Wentworth Windsor, who has published 3 pages in Ploughshares (rank 281,) =
 1
page in Kenyon Review (278,)  7 pages in Field (267,) 6 pages in Missouri=

Review (219,)  4 in Dark Horse (176,) and 2 in Clark Street Review (10.) =
 If
I've calculated correctly (I was never good at math,) Mr. Windsor would h=
ave
quite respectable VAPD of 5028.

VAPD scores could be discreetly listed on business cards, resumes, cover
letters for submissions, job and grant applications, and even on name tag=
s
worn by poets at workshops, readings, seminars, and MLA conventions. The
resulting efficiencies would, if it be not immodest thus to praise my own=

proposal, be mind-boggling.  For instance, schools hiring new faculty or
writers in residence, as well as committees handing out grants, would fin=
d
their deliberations very much shorter and easier:  all they would need to=
 do
is look at candidate's VAPD scores, and their choice would be clear. =

Likewise, editors could simply set a cut-off VAPD point for contributors,=

below which they would not accept any submissions, and above which they w=
ould
accept any, space permitting -- a procedure which would save both editors=
 and
contributors a huge amount of time.

The presence of VAPD numbers on name tags at literary and academic gather=
ings
would be enable participants to use their time at such functions much mor=
e
effectively.  A glance at a new acquaintance's name tag would tell you by=
 the
VAPD displayed there just how much time you should spend conversing with =
that
person, how hard you should laugh at that person's jokes, and how readily=
 you
should respond to that person's suggestion to get together for a drink or=
 some
more vigorously sociable activity.  VAPD scores could also be used to
determine the relative times allocated to poets at readings, and even the=

order of seating at literary society dinners.

Some people will no doubt object that such innovations would be artificia=
l and
arbitrary, but in fact they would be no more or less so than the present =
way
of doing things.  The use of VAPD scores would not in any way change the
standards people currently apply to the situations mentioned above; it wo=
uld
merely enable everyone to apply those standards more easily and confident=
ly
than is currently the case.

                          Jon Corelis (VAPD 372)


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
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Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:27:14 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor 
Sent: Jan 15, 2005 9:00 PM
To: Recipients of POETICS digests 
Subject: POETICS Digest - 14 Jan 2005 to 15 Jan 2005 (#2005-16)

There are 27 messages totalling 1966 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. a little help? (3)
  2. winter....
  3. and the Kabbala (4)
  4. David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it Just     =
  =20
     Now( from a blind man)
  5. Interrupt your Routines
  6. Jazz not High Art? (2)
  7. Books
  8. a little help? Oatmeal! (5)
  9. REMINDER POG: Dale Pendell TONIGHT at Ortspace
 10. [_arc.hive_] Books (2)
 11. objective journal rankings -
 12. Greetings from chris murray's Texfiles
 13. A neglected poet:  Benoy Majumdar
 14. Too much...
 15. 
 16. oh, no,  you go have your fun, I'll just slave over the computer

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 04:49:39 -0000
From:    Shore Poets 
Subject: Re: a little help?

From my reviewing days, the metric is: would go again even if I had to buy
my own ticket and go to the neighbouring city, to, wouldn't go again if the
tickets and taxi were free.

:P

> SO, would you attend the first conversation?  Would you buy a ticket?
> Would you go if someone gave you a free ticket?

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:35:19 -0500
From:    David Baratier 
Subject: Re: a little help?

I once had an revealing conversation with Bly about
regularization tactics used in translating Vincente Alexandre

I had a boring talk with Hall about oats.

Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
PO Box 6291
Columbus OH 43206
USA

http://pavementsaw.org

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 01:39:11 -0500
From:    Harry Nudel 
Subject: winter....

pic
snow buddha

hangs
on ex's frig

'ello
new year....



will be 3:00....a wrd a...drn..

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:10:02 +1300
From:    "richard.tylr" 
Subject: Re: and the Kabbala

ok the cat may as well exit the bag  - this strange person called Richard
Taylor1 wrote the email about the Kabbalah - but Richard Taylor2 (as I have
confirmed in conversation) has no opinions either way on the Kabbala.
Richard Taylor1 says that he was a bit annoyed in that various people
misinterpreted not only the method and the madness -oops: but  the message
(he means going back to his original sortie about finding a book by a
certain David Meltzer and then seeing that David Meltzer was (had been
"posted" up ) on epc, and asking what people thought about D M, and no one
replying until  - in fact - R16 says - he sent the silly email about Bach
etc (but its NOT completely silly - Richard7 says it was brilliant - Richar=
d
22 doesn't agree - he feels it was not good and Richard24 just shrugged his
shoulders) - - if there was one (they mean "a method"): in his ongoing saga
of discovering  a book  -   "Two-way Mirror" by David Meltzer: Richard1
maintains - please please - NO hierarchy is imposed by the enumerations of
the Richard Taylor's - ( I repeat NO hierarchy !!) that any view is valid
even an invalid one - he says he is up to page 131 of the book in question
when he rudely was interrupted by himself getting (or was it Richard 45?) a
little irate and naughty about hearing too much about kabbalas (over the
years) but he says he feels no feelings either for or against kabbalas...BU=
T
the sending of the email in question did in fact get some attention for som=
e
of the Richards and this is pleasurable -  as it is or can be conceded
that - even if no "progress" as such is made - it is good that Richard or
some of the Richards get some attention and pleasure in this brief - all to
brief - sojourn in Mucksville ....

In fact on analysing The Bard's Enigma on page115 - with statements such as

  There is nothing truly hidden but what is not conceivable;
  There is nothing conceivable but what is immeasurable etc
 (There are further premises)

  The interesting conclusion (well it was interesting when he first derived
it - sometimes it's not so interesting - Richard11 avers it is totally
absurd - and other Richards were heard to mutter "drivel" "pff"! - "f- off!=
"
and  so on) was thus derived:

 eg if I let "nothing truly hidden" be H and let "not conceivable" be C and
let "immeasurable" be I etc he was able to use Carolingian (Lewis Carol's
logical method) Categorical logic the conclusion is that  - God can only
exist if he or it or she is conceivable AND God can only exist if God is
inconceivable - which is the Bard's Enigma - the paradox.  Earlier Meltzer
himself "rails" a bit against logic - prefers the words ontological and
phenomelogical to logical and so on - but the ensuing discussion on a page
117 on of the Pardes from the Torah  is fascinating -or interesting at
least -and leads to some great prose/poetry. And a good story.

Here is a great poem Richard Taylor5 wrote (>Age of birth by 4 - Modulo 48)=
:

                                      Richard Taylor

Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor
Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor
Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor
Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor
Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor
Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor
Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor
Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor
Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor
Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor Richard Taylor

                                     Richard Taylor

He says that it is on the greatest and most important subjects in the (or
his) Universe but it may not come out onto the List in the perfectly
rectangular form he so dearly desired.

Richard Taylor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maria Damon" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: and the Kabbala


> richard:
> i'm afraid in this case you don't know what you're talking about, you
> are offending people whose tradition this is, and it wd be better for
> you listen a bit on this score before offering an opinion due to your
> ignorance.
>
> with best wishes, md
>
> At 12:31 AM +1300 1/14/05, richard.tylr wrote:
> >And I'm sick of hearing about the Kabbala and all that shamanitic
> >crap - "The kabbala" - Ha! More like "The Old Cobblers" HA!
> >
> >Richard Taylor
>
>
> --
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:25:19 +1300
From:    "richard.tylr" 
Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it J=
ust         Now( from a blind man)

"Good on ya mate". ( As/was/is said on the  ongoing Speights advert -on NZ
TV - Speights is a dark beer drunk in the South Island by "real men" -
actually also consumed in the North Island (by certain brave individuals)) =
-
I inhabit the North Island and am thus referred to by South Islanders - in
this I mean that they refer to themselves as Mainlanders - the reason
wherewith for by this being that the South Island is bigger than the North
Island)

Richard Taylor55  (New Zealand)

PS Steve  - Iike your style !! Great stuff ! Admire the cut of your jib ...=
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Dalachinksy" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it
Just Now( from a blind man)


> this really astounds me and pisses me off tricky dicky  what the frigg
> and i'm being polite here do mean yer suspect of poets who like jazz too
> much or whatever nonsense puked forth from your lips  shit that put my
> 45yrs of listening and learning about that music right out the window
> wow  taylor you're so far off must of been something  your grandparents
> ate... shit tyler  jazz ain't high art like bach  uch who taught you that
> some old  kkk baptist cracker? ask bach what he thinks go on tyler ask
> i've been trying more and more not to get involved in the stupid rants of
> no nothing academia on this list or should i say know it all academia
> sexiest  bad poem of year awards  continual anti-semitic tirades even by
> jews uch and now this  insulting your culture's greatest art form  or are
> you a foreigner? meltzer whose work i know slightly and who puts out a
> great zine on jazz all written by poets called shuffle boil  and who has
> published an entire book of poems based on lester young  (know him rich?)
> would take exception to what you say as i do and many out there reading
> your  HAHA funny e-mail of which i don't see the point in your even
> having posted, would. first you find melter then read then ask about him
> then insult one of his main reasons for creaing and existing  eveidently
> mine too. boy did you hit a nerve drac.  disgusting boy  uneducated
> slop  young man  and i do sincerely hope you're at least 12 and have not
> yet reached manhood  so you can be forgiven and possibly  educated
> properly.  oh and hey boy  we love bach too us jazz snobs
>
>
> dig those cello suites daddy
>
> guys like you put mingus in hell ya prejudiced bastard  i got lots more
> to add but why bother     shit man  get your shit together    low art
> high art
> 43 more inane messages  to look at tonight
>
> jazz is my religion as the great poet ted joans would say
>
> and it one element that effects alot of our work profoundly
>
> and as far as the kabballa (oops) goes mr madonna  you try sittin in a
> cave for all that time
> and see if you come up with anything better
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:56:04 +0100
From:    Anny Ballardini 
Subject: Re: Interrupt your Routines

Do I like this answer or does this answer get on my nerves, and if it
gets on my nerves, why does it get on my nerves?

Regards,

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome
The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admire=
rs.
Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky




On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:39:40 +1000, K Zervos  wrote:
> i suppose you had to be there
>
> i can imagine these poems as late night dialogues. Oh and did i mention
> drugs.
>
> i have enough trouble with words i am familiar with
>
> but that's just me
>
> in the eighties i used to have arguments with post- modernists at parties
>
> there is no sense to it, i'd say
>
> now i understand that what they were trying to say is
>
> there is no sense to it.
>
> komninos zervos
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 14/01/05
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:30:24 -0500
From:    Mairead Byrne 
Subject: Re: a little help?

I had that talk with Hall about oats also.  Here's the poem I wrote when
I went home somewhat agog to my apartment:

OATMEAL SONG

Give me an oatmeal bath
Come take an oatmeal bath with me
Oatmeal dry or wet
Oatmeal makes you free

Oatmeal
Oatmeal
Oatmeal
Oatmeal
Oatmeal

I will knit you an oatmeal sweater
I will knit you a sweater of oatmeal

When you go to college
I will knit you an oatmeal sweatshirt

I kid you not!
I kid you not!

[Chorus]

Oatmeal
Oatmeal
Oatmeal
Oatmeal
Oatmeal

We will live in an oatmeal land
I will read you oatmeal books
We will wallow in oatmeal baths
Oatmeal will be our bed

& when the time comes
To bury you, my love
I will bury you in oatmeal
In oatmeal I will bury you

Oatmeal
Oatmeal
Oatmeal
Oatmeal
Oatmeal

[Repeat chorus]

Come to the oatmeal gate
Down the winding oatmeal road
Come see the sun set in its oatmeal bowl
Come see the rise of the oatmeal moon
My love

Oatmeal!
Oatmeal!


>>> David Baratier  01/15/05 12:35 AM >>>
I once had an revealing conversation with Bly about
regularization tactics used in translating Vincente Alexandre

I had a boring talk with Hall about oats.

Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
PO Box 6291
Columbus OH 43206
USA

http://pavementsaw.org

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:50:42 -0600
From:    Lawrence Sawyer 
Subject: Re: Jazz not High Art?

how might one assume that Bach is "better" than Thelonious Monk...
strange revelation that argument might cause...I woke up this morning
and listened to Albert Ayler and washed it down with Beethoven, neither
"better" i.e., more sophisticated?

hey right on Steve Dalachinsky   I'm down  but weren't most of those
jazz
cats pretty high when they recorded that stuff?  so that's pretty high
art or maybe just medium high  (sort of mid level)  then the highest
art would be mountain chants or something, right? hard to breathe
though at highest elevations   whew

why do jazz arteests always get disrespect in America? misunderstanding
abounds in USA             high art low art

methinks deja view here in this argument   who could judge

excuse my typos please, thanks


"...if you gotta ask you'll never know, etc"
--Louis Armstrong

_________
very sincerely,

Larry Sawyer
Gerry Mulligan
Cecil Taylor
Miles Davis
Sun Ra
Dizzy Gillespie
Jelly Roll Morton
Chet Baker
Andrew Hill
Bix Beiderbecke
Eric Dolphy
Joe Henderson
Ed Blackwell
Ornette Coleman
Wayne Shorter
Thelonious Monk
Gary Bartz
Anthony Braxton
Dave Brubeck
Art Blakey
Paul Desmond
Duke Ellington
Peter Erskine
Gigi Gryce
Charlie Hayden
David Grisman
Maynard Ferguson
Keith Jarrett
Rahsaan Roland Kirk
Steve Lacy
John Lewis
Bud Powell
Jean-Luc Ponty
Sonny Sharrock
Woody Shaw, etc


________________________

Date:    Fri, 14 Jan 2005 01:5:43 -0500
From:    Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See
it Just Now( from a blind man)

this really astounds me and pisses me off tricky dicky  what the frigg
and i'm being polite here do mean yer suspect of poets who like jazz too
much or whatever nonsense puked forth from your lips  shit that put my
45yrs of listening and learning about that music right out the window
wow  taylor you're so far off must of been something  your grandparents
ate... shit tyler  jazz ain't high art like bach  uch who taught you
that
some old  kkk baptist cracker? ask bach what he thinks go on tyler ask
i've been trying more and more not to get involved in the stupid rants
of
no nothing academia on this list or should i say know it all academia
sexiest  bad poem of year awards  continual anti-semitic tirades even by
jews uch and now this  insulting your culture's greatest art form  or
are
you a foreigner? meltzer whose work i know slightly and who puts out a
great zine on jazz all written by poets called shuffle boil  and who has
published an entire book of poems based on lester young  (know him
rich?)
would take exception to what you say as i do and many out there reading
your  HAHA funny e-mail of which i don't see the point in your even
having posted, would. first you find melter then read then ask about him
then insult one of his main reasons for creaing and existing  eveidently
mine too. boy did you hit a nerve drac.  disgusting boy  uneducated
slop  young man  and i do sincerely hope you're at least 12 and have not
yet reached manhood  so you can be forgiven and possibly  educated
properly.  oh and hey boy  we love bach too us jazz snobs


dig those cello suites daddy

guys like you put mingus in hell ya prejudiced bastard  i got lots more
to add but why bother     shit man  get your shit together    low art
high art
43 more inane messages  to look at tonight

jazz is my religion as the great poet ted joans would say

and it one element that effects alot of our work profoundly

and as far as the kabballa (oops) goes mr madonna  you try sittin in a
cave for all that time
and see if you come up with anything better

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 12:11:17 -0500
From:    Marcus Bales 
Subject: Re: and the Kabbala

Kabbala

Wash away my email, wash away my post
With the texts in Kabbala
Wash away my server, wash away my host
With the texts in Kabbala

Everyone is hateful, everyone is mean
With the texts in Kabbala
Everyone is sucky, everyone is obscene
With the texts in Kabbala

How does your plight whine
With the texts of Kabbala
How does your plight whine
With the texts of Kabbala

I can tell my sister how she's blinded by the lies
With the texts of Kabbala
I can tell my brother how he's blinded by the lies
With the texts of Kabbala

How does your plight whine
With the texts of Kabbala
How does your plight whine
With the texts of Kabbala

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:10:43 -0600
From:    Maria Damon 
Subject: Re: and the Kabbala

you're leaving out the wolfish AAA-OOOO-yeah yeah yeah choruses.

now can we stop being mean to the kabbala?  it has a long history
from before madonna got involved.  and as far as i know it never
inspired any mass killings or swords-point conversions.

At 12:11 PM -0500 1/15/05, Marcus Bales wrote:
>Kabbala
>
>Wash away my email, wash away my post
>With the texts in Kabbala
>Wash away my server, wash away my host
>With the texts in Kabbala
>
>Everyone is hateful, everyone is mean
>With the texts in Kabbala
>Everyone is sucky, everyone is obscene
>With the texts in Kabbala
>
>How does your plight whine
>With the texts of Kabbala
>How does your plight whine
>With the texts of Kabbala
>
>I can tell my sister how she's blinded by the lies
>With the texts of Kabbala
>I can tell my brother how he's blinded by the lies
>With the texts of Kabbala
>
>How does your plight whine
>With the texts of Kabbala
>How does your plight whine
>With the texts of Kabbala


--

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:43:35 +0100
From:    noemata@KUNST.NO
Subject: Books

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------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 12:49:23 -0800
From:    Stephen Vincent 
Subject: Re: a little help? Oatmeal!

Oatmeal? I rarely sing about my morning bowl.
I regularly feel guilty about spilling oatmeal in the grocery -
Out of the plastic scoop on to the floor. Somebody has to
Sweep up after me. A customer might fall and bruise their butt,
Elbow, whatever. Actually I feel potentially criminal without never (yet!)
Getting caught. In a rush, though I want Organic & the one you have to cook
the longest - 20 minutes, Irish vintage! - honestly, whatever it is, I stil=
l
cook it for little more than a minute. Of course, the big issues revolve
around the boredom of oatmeal. That is how to slaughter the bland stuff
-this stuff no doubt our attendants will later pour down our
geriatric throats while tied to our beds, toothless & not a sign or echo
Of a poem on the tongue. But, yes, slaughter I now do: skin & slice
bitter pippins or sweet fujis, throw in raisins, sliced bananas, brown
sugar, blackberry jam, blueberry yogurt, vanilla soy milk, each morning
I try each and every variation. Sometimes, just for blandishment -
when I am bored with the morning slaughter or depleted
Of each of my accoutrements, or as a reminder of what I've escaped,
I try a bowl of oatmeal plain impaled, barely visible under a pouring
of skim milk. One needs no further provocation to get back the grocery
to buy whatever will kill that terrible, tasteless boredom, to sweeten up,
To warm the morning, to provide this winter lift.


But Oatmeal shirts, pants, underwear, Mairead - Jeezus!
Isn't Hall & Oats a dumb, shellacky "top ten new country" band?
Nothing in their Oats for the last zillion years.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com



> I had that talk with Hall about oats also.  Here's the poem I wrote when
> I went home somewhat agog to my apartment:
>
> OATMEAL SONG
>
> Give me an oatmeal bath
> Come take an oatmeal bath with me
> Oatmeal dry or wet
> Oatmeal makes you free
>
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
>
> I will knit you an oatmeal sweater
> I will knit you a sweater of oatmeal
>
> When you go to college
> I will knit you an oatmeal sweatshirt
>
> I kid you not!
> I kid you not!
>
> [Chorus]
>
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
>
> We will live in an oatmeal land
> I will read you oatmeal books
> We will wallow in oatmeal baths
> Oatmeal will be our bed
>
> & when the time comes
> To bury you, my love
> I will bury you in oatmeal
> In oatmeal I will bury you
>
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
> Oatmeal
>
> [Repeat chorus]
>
> Come to the oatmeal gate
> Down the winding oatmeal road
> Come see the sun set in its oatmeal bowl
> Come see the rise of the oatmeal moon
> My love
>
> Oatmeal!
> Oatmeal!
>
>
>>>> David Baratier  01/15/05 12:35 AM >>>
> I once had an revealing conversation with Bly about
> regularization tactics used in translating Vincente Alexandre
>
> I had a boring talk with Hall about oats.
>
> Be well
>
> David Baratier, Editor
>
> Pavement Saw Press
> PO Box 6291
> Columbus OH 43206
> USA
>
> http://pavementsaw.org

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:04:25 -0700
From:    Tenney Nathanson 
Subject: REMINDER POG: Dale Pendell TONIGHT at Ortspace

reminder:

POG=3D20
presents

DALE PENDELL READING

Saturday, January 15, 2005, 7:00 PM=3D20

Ortspace (east room, entry on alley)
121 E. 7th Street
Admission: $5 ($3students)

for further information contact POG: 615-7803,=3D20
mailto:pog@gopog.org or check our web site, www.gopog.org


DALE PENDELL=3D20

Dale Pendell is the author of Living with Barbarians, A Few Plant Poems, =
=3D
and
the acclaimed Pharmako trilogy, including Pharmako/Poeia: Plant Powers,
Poisons, & Herbcraft; Pharmako/Dynamis: Stimulating Plants; and
Pharmako/Gnosis (publication expected in 2005).

Allan Ginsberg described the first volume of the trilogy as "an epic =3D
poem on
plant humours, an abstruse alchemic treatise, an experiential narrative
jigsaw puzzle, a hip and learned wild-nature reference text, a comic =3D
paean
to cosmic consciousness, an ecological handbook, a dried-herb pastiche, =3D
a
countercultural encyclopedia of ancient fact and lore that cuts through =3D
the
present 'conservative' war-on-drugs psychobabble."

Terence McKenna wrote that "Dale Pendell reactivates the ancient =3D
connection
between the bardic poet and the shaman." His poetry has appeared in many
journals, and he was the founding editor of "KUKSU: Journal of =3D
Backcountry
Writing." He has led workshops on ethnobotany and ethnopoetics for the
Naropa Institute and the Botanical Preservation Corps, and has presented =
=3D
at
the Mind States conference. His performance group, Oracular Madness, =3D
most
recently appeared at Burning Man.

A software engineer as well as poet and student of ethnobotany, Pendell
recently noted that "one of the things I'm trying to do is trace Gnostic
wisdom tradition and higher spirituality through the western tradition. =3D
A
lot of my practice and background has been through Buddhism, and more =3D
the
vision quest, shamanistic religion, but I wanted to find a system of =3D
ideas
and to ground it in the western tradition also going through =3D
Alexandria."

Dale Pendell is in southern Arizona courtesy of Bisbee's Central School
Project:

CONTACT: Michael Gregory, 432-5374, centralschlprjct@theriver.com

Friday, January 14, 2005, 7:30 PM
Author Dale Pendell
Central School Project, Poets Voice Series
43 Howell Ave in Old Bisbee
Admission: $6 ($4 students with ID)

DALE PENDELL READING AT CSP, FRIDAY, JANUARY 14TH

On Friday evening, January 14th, Dale Pendell will read from his own =3D
work in

the Poets Voice series at Central School Project, in Old Bisbee. The=3D20
performance will start at 7:30 pm in the auditorium of the historic=3D20
facility at 43 Howell Ave. and be followed by a public reception and=3D20
book-signing.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:05:43 -0600
From:    mIEKAL aND 
Subject: Re: [_arc.hive_] Books

WritingDubuffetsTitles is temporarily offline because shitwad hackers
blew it apart at the seems.  We need to install a new version of
phpWiki with version control.  I'll post when it's back up & going.
Also this project is the collective energies of about 15 people &
should probably be notated as such. & also also, the title
"WritingDuchampsTitles" is an alzheimers on my part & will eventually
be purged from the records.  Thanks Bjorn for providing the ISBN
framework to build these on.

~mIEKAL


On Saturday, January 15, 2005, at 02:43 PM,  wrote:

>
> . ISBN 82-92428-29-1 miekal and:
> -WritingDuchampsTitles/+WritingDubuffetsTitles
>   url: http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:29:05 -0600
From:    Aaron Belz 
Subject: objective journal rankings -

This may have been posted; if so, sorry.  I find it fascinating.

http://www.jefferybahr.com/Publications/PubRankings.asp


Aaron

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:37:26 -0500
From:    Mairead Byrne 
Subject: Re: a little help? Oatmeal!

Dear Stephen,

Oatmeal is an iconic substance in Ireland.  It's a long story.  Suffice
to say that my "Oatmeal Song" is only one of a huge body of songs on the
subject.  I was surprised to see Donald Hall so engaged with the
subject.   But then there's that wonderful poem of his, "Kicking the
Oatmeal."  And then that other wonderful poem  "A Supermarket in
California," to which your experience below surely relates.

Mairead

>>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 01/15/05 3:49 PM >>>
Oatmeal? I rarely sing about my morning bowl.
I regularly feel guil
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:40:04 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Rebecca Seiferle 
Subject:      Re: objective journal rankings
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Oh, Jon, you are so cynical.If  I am  poet in residence at
Brandeis, it's not for VAPD SCORES, it's just because someone, whom I didn't
know in any way shape
or form, happened to read my book and decided to ask if I'd like to visit. And
if I recently won a Lannan Literary Fellowship, it's not for VAPD SCORES, but
because someone else, whom
I didn't know in any way shape or form, happened to come across my work. I
don't know if you think things always work by VAPD SCORES, but they don't.
I wrote for three decades in a remote corner of NW New Mexico and knew no
one, and whatever came to me came just like this, someone unknown
happening to read my work somewhere, and I don't think I'm the only one.

Best,

Rebecca

Rebecca Seiferle
www.thedrunkenboat.com
---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:16:36 -0800
>From: Jon Corelis 
>Subject: Re: objective journal rankings
>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
>
>> This may have been posted; if so, sorry. I find it fascinating.
>
>> http://www.jefferybahr.com/Publications/PubRankings.asp
>
>Now this is really splendid.  If these rankings become generally accepted,
>they will prove extremely useful in all sorts of ways.
>
>This usefulness would be enhanced if the literary community would agree on a
>common way to apply the rankings to individual poets.  I suggest the
>following:
>
>There are by my count 289 journals on the list. I propose that we assign each
>journal a number based on this rank, from 289 for The Atlantic Monthly, the
>top ranked journal, to 1 for Wisconsin Review, which is last in line.  Then
>any individual poet could be assigned a number -- call it the Verse
>Acceptability Prestige Denominator -- calculated by multiplying the number of
>pages of verse which that poet has published in each magazine by the
>magazine's rank, and adding them together.
>
>As an example, let us consider moderately successful hypothetical poet named
>Wentworth Windsor, who has published 3 pages in Ploughshares (rank 281,)  1
>page in Kenyon Review (278,)  7 pages in Field (267,) 6 pages in Missouri
>Review (219,)  4 in Dark Horse (176,) and 2 in Clark Street Review (10.)  If
>I've calculated correctly (I was never good at math,) Mr. Windsor would have
>quite respectable VAPD of 5028.
>
>VAPD scores could be discreetly listed on business cards, resumes, cover
>letters for submissions, job and grant applications, and even on name tags
>worn by poets at workshops, readings, seminars, and MLA conventions. The
>resulting efficiencies would, if it be not immodest thus to praise my own
>proposal, be mind-boggling.  For instance, schools hiring new faculty or
>writers in residence, as well as committees handing out grants, would find
>their deliberations very much shorter and easier:  all they would need to do
>is look at candidate's VAPD scores, and their choice would be clear.
>Likewise, editors could simply set a cut-off VAPD point for contributors,
>below which they would not accept any submissions, and above which they
would
>accept any, space permitting -- a procedure which would save both editors
and
>contributors a huge amount of time.
>
>The presence of VAPD numbers on name tags at literary and academic
gatherings
>would be enable participants to use their time at such functions much more
>effectively.  A glance at a new acquaintance's name tag would tell you by the
>VAPD displayed there just how much time you should spend conversing with
that
>person, how hard you should laugh at that person's jokes, and how readily you
>should respond to that person's suggestion to get together for a drink or
some
>more vigorously sociable activity.  VAPD scores could also be used to
>determine the relative times allocated to poets at readings, and even the
>order of seating at literary society dinners.
>
>Some people will no doubt object that such innovations would be artificial and
>arbitrary, but in fact they would be no more or less so than the present way
>of doing things.  The use of VAPD scores would not in any way change the
>standards people currently apply to the situations mentioned above; it would
>merely enable everyone to apply those standards more easily and confidently
>than is currently the case.
>
>                          Jon Corelis (VAPD 372)
>
>
>=====================================
>Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org
>
>    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
>=====================================
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 01:44:51 -0500
Reply-To:     editor@pavementsaw.org
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         David Baratier 
Organization: Pavement Saw Press
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I apologize for the confusion & my bad spelling.
I should have said:

"I had a boring talk with Hall about Oates."

Thanks for the oatmeal poem. Here is a Oates poem.
As you can see, Oates must make one regular.

                          Private Eyes
                          By Joyce Carol Oates


                          In training, the whip must be used sparingly.
But it must be used.
                          —horse trainer's adage

                          At the practice track, when we owned a
Standard-bred pacer.
                          How happy we were, new young owners of a
Standard-bred pacer.
                          How happy to "own" an animal, and a
Standard-bred pacer!
                          How dazed by the pounding hooves, the black
bulbs of eyes
                          swinging past, shivering and whinnying like
the dream horse
                          is Fuseli's "The Nightmare."

                          We were happy then, not-knowing our future.
                          We were innocent then, and tenderly-loving.
                          We were not cruel, by design. Any more than
you.
                          (We are Americans and not of those crude folk
                          who eat horseflesh though we feed it to our
pets, later.)
                          At the practice track north of Clinton, New
Jersey.

                          * * *

                          At the practice track in Jersey in
sun-splotched June.
                          God! the happiness! we are pacers.
                          Our massive muscles fill our hides! we are
pacers.
                          Deep-chested, high-headed. Pricked-up ears.
                          Happiness is pounding the track—fast.
                          Happiness is hauling the go-cart—fast.
                          Fast fast fast as the heart propels the legs.
                          Fast as the track and the go-cart allow.
                          Always there's a track and always a go-cart!
                          Our hooves pound as if they would break the
very earth,
                          our joy's in our great hearts pump pumping
like fists.
                          Our happiness is in racing and not breaking
stride.
                          Our happiness is in racing, one against the
rest
                          in a ferocity of hooves, manes, tails, rolling
eyes.
                          So high-strung our trainers strap "shadow
rolls"
                          above our big moist noses so that (don't
laugh!)
                          our flying shadows on the track won't throw us
into a panic,
                          so we kill our runty drivers.

                          Lookit the little whip in the sumbitch's hand,

                          and that hand in a glove. Like a toy.

                          * * *

                          "What is that leather thing around that
horse's legs?"
                          "Ma'am, that's a hobble. It helps her keep her
stride."
                          "So she won't break loose?"
                          "She won't never break loose. It just helps
her keep
                          her stride."


Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
PO Box 6291
Columbus OH 43206
USA

http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 01:39:26 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Rebecca Seiferle 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

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MjkxDQo+Q29sdW1idXMgT0ggNDMyMDYNCj5VU0ENCg==
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:07:26 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Chris Stroffolino 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org
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"a bowl of oatmeal tried to stare me down, and won"--
                        John Prine

Gil Scott Heron used to call Gerald Ford "Oatmeal man"


----------
>From: David Baratier 
>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
>Subject: Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
>Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2005, 10:44 PM
>

> I apologize for the confusion & my bad spelling.
> I should have said:
>
> "I had a boring talk with Hall about Oates."
>
> Thanks for the oatmeal poem. Here is a Oates poem.
> As you can see, Oates must make one regular.
>
>                           Private Eyes
>                           By Joyce Carol Oates
>
>
>                           In training, the whip must be used sparingly.
> But it must be used.
>                           =82=C4=EEhorse trainer's adage
>
>                           At the practice track, when we owned a
> Standard-bred pacer.
>                           How happy we were, new young owners of a
> Standard-bred pacer.
>                           How happy to "own" an animal, and a
> Standard-bred pacer!
>                           How dazed by the pounding hooves, the black
> bulbs of eyes
>                           swinging past, shivering and whinnying like
> the dream horse
>                           is Fuseli's "The Nightmare."
>
>                           We were happy then, not-knowing our future.
>                           We were innocent then, and tenderly-loving.
>                           We were not cruel, by design. Any more than
> you.
>                           (We are Americans and not of those crude folk
>                           who eat horseflesh though we feed it to our
> pets, later.)
>                           At the practice track north of Clinton, New
> Jersey.
>
>                           * * *
>
>                           At the practice track in Jersey in
> sun-splotched June.
>                           God! the happiness! we are pacers.
>                           Our massive muscles fill our hides! we are
> pacers.
>                           Deep-chested, high-headed. Pricked-up ears.
>                           Happiness is pounding the track=82=C4=EEfast.
>                           Happiness is hauling the go-cart=82=C4=EEfast.
>                           Fast fast fast as the heart propels the legs.
>                           Fast as the track and the go-cart allow.
>                           Always there's a track and always a go-cart!
>                           Our hooves pound as if they would break the
> very earth,
>                           our joy's in our great hearts pump pumping
> like fists.
>                           Our happiness is in racing and not breaking
> stride.
>                           Our happiness is in racing, one against the
> rest
>                           in a ferocity of hooves, manes, tails, rolling
> eyes.
>                           So high-strung our trainers strap "shadow
> rolls"
>                           above our big moist noses so that (don't
> laugh!)
>                           our flying shadows on the track won't throw us
> into a panic,
>                           so we kill our runty drivers.
>
>                           Lookit the little whip in the sumbitch's hand,
>
>                           and that hand in a glove. Like a toy.
>
>                           * * *
>
>                           "What is that leather thing around that
> horse's legs?"
>                           "Ma'am, that's a hobble. It helps her keep her
> stride."
>                           "So she won't break loose?"
>                           "She won't never break loose. It just helps
> her keep
>                           her stride."
>
>
> Be well
>
> David Baratier, Editor
>
> Pavement Saw Press
> PO Box 6291
> Columbus OH 43206
> USA
>
> http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 02:54:34 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter.....
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it all breaks yr heart

the winning field goal
hooks left

you'll never fuck
the young Susan Sontag

... shoulda never bought
those Krispy Kreme stocks

cynicsim isn't nihilsm

boca raton spelled backwards  ain't smorgasbord....


3:00.....spring break....school's out..drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:19:55 +1300
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "richard.tylr" 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
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 Take about 1 half a cup of oatmeal - and add it to a pot - add the same
 amount of water or milk and some salt if you wish - heat  - until it
"plops'
 like Rotorua (or if in the US like Yellowstone Park etc) - stir - watch -
 beware of your eyes - it might explopt out - then, when it begins to "plop"
or
 bubblle etc - decant  - clean the pot with cold water - as the resultant
 enmixture is very viscous (but not vicious) and hot water increases its
 viscosity - meanwhile decant (it doesn't decant well - it may have to be
 scooped or otherwise "persuaded out of the original pot in which it was
 conceived) the porridge - now a near life like grey-white mass, a
 porrigionous mix - for that it is  - into a desert plate: add yoghurt or
 milk and some strawberries or other fruit - I have strawberries these
 days  - and sugar or not sugar etc and eat. It is very good for the body
and
 so on - it is very nutritious and tasteful - but some people hate porridge.

 Richard Taylor
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Weiss" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 2:06 PM
> Subject: Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
>
>
> > At 05:17 PM 1/15/2005, you wrote:
> > >The Irish Oatmeal "icon" - not unlike certain churches - has stuck
itself
> up
> > >wildly (well, that's probably not the word)  all over the breakfast
> tables
> > >of America. Demographic studies probably would show families serving
> oatmeal
> > >for breakfast have children of higher SAT scores that those of heavily
> > >sugared cereals from General Mills.
> >
> > And less troubled with irregularity.
> >
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 01:19:20 +1300
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "richard.tylr" 
Subject:      Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it
              Just         Now
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Where did I talk only about "white " poets? I have talked mostly about poets
who are "white" I suppose - but I the subject had not really arisen per se -
there are a number of very good Maori poets but to be honest not many of
them write the kind of stuff that would be very interesting on this List.
(Although I 'm starting to wonder about the intelligence quotient of some
people on this list ....) That isn't because they are "bad" poets it is a
stylistic thing - eg Hone Tuwhare - who I have met ( and he could be the
exception to the rule ) is linguistically inventive and certainly a major
poet but he  - well he himself would not be interested for example in
Language theory or any poetics - such as that enunciated by  Silliman,
Perelman, Heijinian, and Bernstein etc (all that gang - or Sondheim's crazy
talk of deconstruction, the kabala, and phenomenology) - I know the man
well enough - unlike a lot of poets in NZ I have worked  in a similar work
"field" as Hone - Hone Tuwhare was influenced by R AK Mason (A communist)
who my father knew - and in 1929 he worked at the Otahuhu railway
workshops  - and we swapped stories about the place as I worked there in
1968 - Hone is  a highly intelligent poet but would not be interested in
much "high theory"  - at poetry readings he is almost always pissed (drunk)
and so on - he like Mason is a communist - he was a welder and is self
taught - I used also to be socialist/fellow traveller  (and also often drunk
at readings)  -but check out 'Aotearoa's' - "main " magazine - the latest
Landfall and see a certain Philip Temple's discussion of him) (a letter in
reply to certain incidents that occurred at a public reading where Hone
was) - no another poet is Colquhoun - he is a doctor but his poetry - good
in its own way - is witty - but mainstream: the other Maori poet I have met
is Robert O'Sullivan who used the fact of his Maoriness to climb up the
academic ladder and get published but -ok its problematic when that happens
as its unclear if any "objective" evaluation of a writers work can be made -
is he published because they want fill the quota of Maori poets? - or is he
good? -and so on  - he seems a nice enough person - but as a European I
could write exactly the same poetry and receive a total neglect - this isn't
bitterness or racism it's fact -

Any way surely everyone knows I was talking silly buggers about jazz  and
"high art"- makes me wonder if a lot of people on here are not just
thickos - or madmen  - and every email I send  -with some rare (and good)
exceptions - is misinterpreted - I always find some creep slithers out like
this Chris Winkles moron and twists what I say - fires back with my words
misquoted and out of context and attacks me personally. There is a dangerous
group of cowardly lurkers who only talk if they feel they can demolish
someone - well I feel great - but they attack wrongly (deliberately I
think - waiting until I say something they can attack -so its interesting to
see how these vermin operate) - this negative responding to what I said
prompted my satirical piece about jazz etc - you'd think that in knocking
jazz and the kabala I was the Adolf Hitler of NZ - cant even joke about
these things !! What a lot of PO faces !!!  Its really a right wing
esponse  - closed minds  who are really right wingers posing as liberals.

People should have the guts to address me directly.

Richard Taylor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Leland Winks" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See it
Just Now


> Steve --
>
> Your posting that added another bum-rush "reading" of richard.tylr was
> right on.  Thanks for not holding back.  No intention on my part of
> restricting jazz-and-poetry to African-American poets (I wrote an MA
> Poetics thesis at New College of CA on jazz-po with David Meltzer,
> who's always been a good friend and constant teacher to me), but I
> wanted to call the dude on his racism (he only talks about "white"
> poets without any mention of Maori writers even though there he is in
> Aotearoa).  Props to you --
>
> Chris
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Dalachinksy 
> Date: Friday, January 14, 2005 1:00 am
> Subject: Re: David Meltzer Jazz & Poetry jazz is not High Art as I See
> it Just Now
>
> > hey chris  for the most part i agree with you but please let's not
> > restrict this to african american  poets  ok  bravo on the cecil
> > mention i purposely left out specifics  cecil loves ives and
> > xenakis and aretha
> > and bach  and smokey and billie  well you get the idea
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:12:56 +0100
Reply-To:     Anny Ballardini 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Anny Ballardini 
Subject:      Re: objective journal rankings
In-Reply-To:  
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Hi Rebecca and Jon,

I agree that Jon comes out as an incredible cynic here, but I think he
is also indirectly criticizing some attitudes he opposes in his very
personal way. His mail made me smile, and unluckily this is the way it
goes in our little rolling down the hill world. The louder you scream
the better you are heard.

On the other hand, yours is a wonderful example and I hope that many
serious judges will be able to detect poets who are as valued as you
are by me.

Take care you both, Anny

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admirers.
Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky



On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:40:04 -0500, Rebecca Seiferle  wrote:
> Oh, Jon, you are so cynical.If  I am  poet in residence at
> Brandeis, it's not for VAPD SCORES, it's just because someone, whom I didn't
> know in any way shape
> or form, happened to read my book and decided to ask if I'd like to visit. And
> if I recently won a Lannan Literary Fellowship, it's not for VAPD SCORES, but
> because someone else, whom
> I didn't know in any way shape or form, happened to come across my work. I
> don't know if you think things always work by VAPD SCORES, but they don't.
> I wrote for three decades in a remote corner of NW New Mexico and knew no
> one, and whatever came to me came just like this, someone unknown
> happening to read my work somewhere, and I don't think I'm the only one.
>
> Best,
>
> Rebecca
>
> Rebecca Seiferle
> www.thedrunkenboat.com
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:16:36 -0800
> >From: Jon Corelis 
> >Subject: Re: objective journal rankings
> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
> >
> >> This may have been posted; if so, sorry. I find it fascinating.
> >
> >> http://www.jefferybahr.com/Publications/PubRankings.asp
> >
> >Now this is really splendid.  If these rankings become generally accepted,
> >they will prove extremely useful in all sorts of ways.
> >
> >This usefulness would be enhanced if the literary community would agree on a
> >common way to apply the rankings to individual poets.  I suggest the
> >following:
> >
> >There are by my count 289 journals on the list. I propose that we assign each
> >journal a number based on this rank, from 289 for The Atlantic Monthly, the
> >top ranked journal, to 1 for Wisconsin Review, which is last in line.  Then
> >any individual poet could be assigned a number -- call it the Verse
> >Acceptability Prestige Denominator -- calculated by multiplying the number of
> >pages of verse which that poet has published in each magazine by the
> >magazine's rank, and adding them together.
> >
> >As an example, let us consider moderately successful hypothetical poet named
> >Wentworth Windsor, who has published 3 pages in Ploughshares (rank 281,)  1
> >page in Kenyon Review (278,)  7 pages in Field (267,) 6 pages in Missouri
> >Review (219,)  4 in Dark Horse (176,) and 2 in Clark Street Review (10.)  If
> >I've calculated correctly (I was never good at math,) Mr. Windsor would have
> >quite respectable VAPD of 5028.
> >
> >VAPD scores could be discreetly listed on business cards, resumes, cover
> >letters for submissions, job and grant applications, and even on name tags
> >worn by poets at workshops, readings, seminars, and MLA conventions. The
> >resulting efficiencies would, if it be not immodest thus to praise my own
> >proposal, be mind-boggling.  For instance, schools hiring new faculty or
> >writers in residence, as well as committees handing out grants, would find
> >their deliberations very much shorter and easier:  all they would need to do
> >is look at candidate's VAPD scores, and their choice would be clear.
> >Likewise, editors could simply set a cut-off VAPD point for contributors,
> >below which they would not accept any submissions, and above which they
> would
> >accept any, space permitting -- a procedure which would save both editors
> and
> >contributors a huge amount of time.
> >
> >The presence of VAPD numbers on name tags at literary and academic
> gatherings
> >would be enable participants to use their time at such functions much more
> >effectively.  A glance at a new acquaintance's name tag would tell you by the
> >VAPD displayed there just how much time you should spend conversing with
> that
> >person, how hard you should laugh at that person's jokes, and how readily you
> >should respond to that person's suggestion to get together for a drink or
> some
> >more vigorously sociable activity.  VAPD scores could also be used to
> >determine the relative times allocated to poets at readings, and even the
> >order of seating at literary society dinners.
> >
> >Some people will no doubt object that such innovations would be artificial and
> >arbitrary, but in fact they would be no more or less so than the present way
> >of doing things.  The use of VAPD scores would not in any way change the
> >standards people currently apply to the situations mentioned above; it would
> >merely enable everyone to apply those standards more easily and confidently
> >than is currently the case.
> >
> >                          Jon Corelis (VAPD 372)
> >
> >
> >=====================================
> >Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org
> >
> >    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
> >=====================================
> >
> >
> >____________________________________________________________________
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 08:34:01 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jerry 
Subject:      Re: and the Kabbala
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Avid readers of the kabbala may find similarities... as did the
Neoplatonists in the 16th century... Jacob Beohme and Paracelsus...

Cheers,
Gerald Schwartz

> you're leaving out the wolfish AAA-OOOO-yeah yeah yeah choruses.
>
> now can we stop being mean to the kabbala?  it has a long history
> from before madonna got involved.  and as far as i know it never
> inspired any mass killings or swords-point conversions.
>
> At 12:11 PM -0500 1/15/05, Marcus Bales wrote:
> >Kabbala
> >
> >Wash away my email, wash away my post
> >With the texts in Kabbala
> >Wash away my server, wash away my host
> >With the texts in Kabbala
> >
> >Everyone is hateful, everyone is mean
> >With the texts in Kabbala
> >Everyone is sucky, everyone is obscene
> >With the texts in Kabbala
> >
> >How does your plight whine
> >With the texts of Kabbala
> >How does your plight whine
> >With the texts of Kabbala
> >
> >I can tell my sister how she's blinded by the lies
> >With the texts of Kabbala
> >I can tell my brother how he's blinded by the lies
> >With the texts of Kabbala
> >
> >How does your plight whine
> >With the texts of Kabbala
> >How does your plight whine
> >With the texts of Kabbala
>
>
> --
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 08:26:59 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Tony Trigilio 
Organization: http://www.starve.org
Subject:      COURT GREEN: Call for (bout-rimes) poems
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For the Spring 2006 issue of the new poetry annual COURT GREEN, we are
accepting submissions of bouts-rimés (“rhymed ends”).

As Ron Padgett says in his Handbook of Poetic Forms, “A bouts-rimés poem
is created by one person’s making up a list of rhymed words and giving
it to another person, who in turn writes the lines that end with those
rhymes, in the same order in which they were given.” Various sources
attribute the invention of bouts-rimés to the French poet Dulot in the
seventeenth century. In 1701, Etienne Mallemans wrote a collection of
sonnets whose rhymes were chosen by the Duchess of Maine. In the
mid-1800s, brothers William Michael Rossetti and Dante Gabriel Rossetti
experimented with bouts-rimés. In 1864, Alexandre Dumas curated a volume
of bouts-rimés composed by 350 French poets -- all with the same rhymes.

In the spirit of Dumas’s invitation, we are accepting submissions of
bouts-rimés sonnets written with the following end-rhymes (in the
following order):

June
stress
moon
obsess
snake
moot
cake
beaut
Garbo
play
hobo
day
rhinestone
cologne

All themes and subjects are welcome as long as your sonnet uses these
end-rhymes in the order they appear above.

Submissions of bouts-rimés sonnets for consideration in the dossier can
be sent through May 1, 2005: Tony Trigilio, COURT GREEN, English
Department, Columbia College Chicago, 600 South Michigan Avenue,
Chicago, IL, 60605. Email submissions are not accepted. Submissions
without a self-addressed, stamped envelope will not be returned.

COURT GREEN is a new, nationally distributed journal co-edited by
Arielle Greenberg, Tony Trigilio, and David Trinidad. Each issue will
have a Dossier on a special topic or theme. The first issue is out now
and features a Dossier on poetry on film, and includes poems by Ann
Lauterbach, Michael Burkard, Elizabeth Willis, Maxine Kumin, Mary
Szybist, Albert Goldbarth, Ron Padgett, Dodie Bellamy, Wayne Koestenbaum
and others. Issue #2 (out by April 2005) features a Dossier on Lorine
Niedecker.

Submissions of poetry for the regular section of the magazine are
welcome, in addition to Dossier submissions. If you would like to submit
poems for the regular section, our reading period is February 1-May 1 of
each year, to the same address above.

If questions come up, email me at ttrigilio@colum.edu. Thanks–

Best,
Tony
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 09:38:08 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jerry 
Subject:      Re: Dirty Little Secret
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Thank you, Rebecca... David:  yes, his words put us
on the edge of our seats. As someone who wrote
political speeches (for three NYS Assembly
Speakers), I will say something that may make
many on this list cringe (in that it may seem to
 be overstating the obvious), but it's true: style and
semntics make up the substance of politics. Words
are face-saving veneers, artful diplomatic screens.
No one speaks directly. Relationships are built
on ambiguity. And so, as our president burnishes
his image as a Cowboy Churchill -- strident, di-
viding black and white and good and evil, tones
bounce around the bell jars across the board.

I guess I miss a president who knew what the
"definition of is is" when he meant it.

Cheers,
Gerald

> Very funny, Gerry, and pointedly apt,
>
> Best,
>
> Rebecca
>
> Rebecca Seiferle
> www.thedrunkenboat.com
>
>
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:12:38 -0800
> >From: Jerry 
> >Subject: Dirty Little Secret
> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
> >
> >Dear Mr. President: I understand you say
> >you now see that tough talk can really have
> >"unintended consequences", that you now
> >express misgivings for 2 of your most famous
> >expressions: "Bring 'em on," & "Osama Bin Laden:
> >Wanted, Dead or Alive."  Well, Mr. President...
> >it's a dirty little secret but people judge you by
> >the words you use. Be assured that nothing
> >makes a stronger, longer-lasting impression
> >than a cogent command of the English language.
> >Just keep your ears open. You will soon notice
> >that the most admired people have very strong
> >vocabularies. To advance in your career, your
> >vocabulary level must surpass that of your peers.
> >Career counselors concur that verbal mastery
> >is directly linked to career advancement. Even
> >if you are more qualified than the next person,
> >count on the person with the keen vocabulary
> >to win. fair, or not, the world responds to words.
> >After all, haven't you ever felt intimidated by that
> >someone using words you don't know? I know
> >you have. I know you have felt lost in a fog. While
> >you're expanding considerable mental energy
> >trying to figure it out, the conversation advances
> >around you. You are immediately out of step.
> >A better vocabulary guarantees keeping up
> >with the best of them. If you want to "play"
> >with "the big boys" you better be ready to then
> >match their vocabulary. You see, a powerful
> >vocabulary can be like wearing a powersuit
> >to a meeting. It says that you mean bsiness;
> >it projects strength; it gives you the edge. A
> >strong vocabulary is a powersuit that anyone
> >can don at a moment's notice. You can see
> >dominant people use language to: 1.) get what
> >they want; 2.) control the conversation; 3.) man-
> >ipulate others; 4.) exert superiority. I do not
> >advocate bullying people. rather, use carefully
> >chosen words to communicate clearly, accur-
> >ately, and effectively. A strong vocabulary will
> >protect stength and confidence even in stressful
> >situations. Vocabulary operates positively or
> >negatively in many areas of your life. Have you
> >ever been humiliated by butchering the language
> >or fustrated at not being able to come up with
> >the right word? How did that affect you? How
> >did that affect you later in the day in other parts
> >of your life. Where you less confident? Did you
> >try to second guess yourself? Did you become
> >irritable? While a strong verbal advantage removes
> >obstacles and accelerates goal achievement, a
> >weak vocabulary handicaps and stymies. If you
> >cannot express ideas eloquently, if you hesitate
> >because of uncertainty about the right word, you
> >will appear less than competent and under-quali-
> >fied. Rewards, recognition, and promotion could
> >pass you by. Please remember, your vocabulary
> >already works for or against you one way or anoth-
> >er. Might as well have it work for you in as many
> >ways as possible.  Respectively, Gerald Schwartz
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:23:01 -0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Robin Hamilton 
Subject:      Re: and the Kabbala
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From: "Jerry" 

> Avid readers of the kabbala may find similarities... as did the
> Neoplatonists in the 16th century...

The Cabbala aside, the term "Neoplatonist" is a
pistols-for-two-coffee-for-one term.

There were *no* Neoplatonists in the 16thC -- the term I think originated
with Thomas Taylor in England in the 19thC.

I say this with a degree of supressed venom as I once had a book turned-down
for publication, partly because I refused to compromise over this particular
terminological distinction.

There were other reasons (to be honest, it wasn't exactly an Essential
Book), but that was a factor ...

In the 16thC, Plotinus, Iamblichus et alia were seen as part of the Platonic
[sic!] tradition.

Robin
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:36:05 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mary Jo Malo 
Subject:      understanding what we can
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Steve, please allow my indulgence in exclaiming your effulgence. This is a
beautiful poem, and that it's escaped intelligence and ego, is simply the
nonsense of people who only think they understand poetry. I wouldn't think of
placing my words into its inviting spaces. MaryJo
--------------------

post-diluvian


relax
real light surrounds your eyes

this is one way of  ha(l)ving things
this is  another
there is more than one way to skin a  cloud
pay a  check
extinguish a fire

so the man with little to say distinguished himself again by saying  too
much

stuck between tinsel & crumble
more than one way to extinguish a  life
tie up the laces

it's not as if hands  were unique
microphones tilted  -
transforming grass into hardware
into  liguid
tilt sign tilt sign

i stood somewhere beneath the tilt sign  & then i  cracked
stood for a moment   below my  waist
& could
feel the plates shifting

bone dead & yet the flesh so much alive
rotted in spots
dodging  again yet another wild pitch
earth laboring
final beams falling against  discounted space
ruthless & wreckless
balance here
yet unaware / or  uncaring
as your G/d might
be

i think i'm dying of cancer
she says i just have a bad cold

how does the death of 1000's
stack up against my problems?

earth laboring

coughs convulsively

nose runs one instant
stuffed up the next

back & ribs
cracking

my plates seem to be shifting
i am weighted in soft blue  tissues
there is a rumbling in the street

i saw 3 cats as i precariously scuttled from one event to the next
the  horizon never changing
nor the weather
only my temperature going from cold  to hot
luckily they were all black & white


it is not about more bodies
or less
but about a contracting of  space
an expanding
like a yawn
a fart
a belch

not about something in the present
but something from the past
that  has changed the future

i spin within this axis

this is not a postcard
the sun re-emerging after a storm

shadows on a once cluttered
landscape
the sea itself again

the larger part
is always hidden beneath the surface
these are many  different things
that are happening
even birds have deep memories
a  germ of a melody
ruffled

i carried 15 notebooks on
my shoulders  today
what was left of 38
yrs of writing
(i lost  a few yrs when the ground began to  shift)
then i put them down

as i walked calmly back to my  room
i encountered 3 simple but significant questions

1. does anyone know which direction south  is?
2. do you know where the closest chinese take
out  is?
3. which way is Ave. A?

i answered then all.



steve dalachinsky    nyc  1/09-10/05
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 12:33:32 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mairead Byrne 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
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That's beautiful David.  I'll have to mull over it during the day.  I =
think it might be stunning.  And don't worry about the little typo.  It =
could happen to the Pope.
Mairead

>>> David Baratier  01/16/05 1:44 AM >>>
I apologize for the confusion & my bad spelling.
I should have said:

"I had a boring talk with Hall about Oates."

Thanks for the oatmeal poem. Here is a Oates poem.
As you can see, Oates must make one regular.

                          Private Eyes
                          By Joyce Carol Oates


                          In training, the whip must be used sparingly.
But it must be used.
                          =82**horse trainer's adage

                          At the practice track, when we owned a
Standard-bred pacer.
                          How happy we were, new young owners of a
Standard-bred pacer.
                          How happy to "own" an animal, and a
Standard-bred pacer!
                          How dazed by the pounding hooves, the black
bulbs of eyes
                          swinging past, shivering and whinnying like
the dream horse
                          is Fuseli's "The Nightmare."

                          We were happy then, not-knowing our future.
                          We were innocent then, and tenderly-loving.
                          We were not cruel, by design. Any more than
you.
                          (We are Americans and not of those crude folk
                          who eat horseflesh though we feed it to our
pets, later.)
                          At the practice track north of Clinton, New
Jersey.

                          * * *

                          At the practice track in Jersey in
sun-splotched June.
                          God! the happiness! we are pacers.
                          Our massive muscles fill our hides! we are
pacers.
                          Deep-chested, high-headed. Pricked-up ears.
                          Happiness is pounding the track=82**fast.
                          Happiness is hauling the go-cart=82**fast.
                          Fast fast fast as the heart propels the legs.
                          Fast as the track and the go-cart allow.
                          Always there's a track and always a go-cart!
                          Our hooves pound as if they would break the
very earth,
                          our joy's in our great hearts pump pumping
like fists.
                          Our happiness is in racing and not breaking
stride.
                          Our happiness is in racing, one against the
rest
                          in a ferocity of hooves, manes, tails, rolling
eyes.
                          So high-strung our trainers strap "shadow
rolls"
                          above our big moist noses so that (don't
laugh!)
                          our flying shadows on the track won't throw us
into a panic,
                          so we kill our runty drivers.

                          Lookit the little whip in the sumbitch's hand,

                          and that hand in a glove. Like a toy.

                          * * *

                          "What is that leather thing around that
horse's legs?"
                          "Ma'am, that's a hobble. It helps her keep her
stride."
                          "So she won't break loose?"
                          "She won't never break loose. It just helps
her keep
                          her stride."


Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
PO Box 6291
Columbus OH 43206
USA

http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 09:48:49 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      Re: objective journal rankings
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Satire can't hedge its bets.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 10:01:17 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Joel Weishaus 
Subject:      Re: objective journal rankings
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I'd sure like to see all this information for on-line literary journals!

-Joel


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Corelis" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: objective journal rankings


> > This may have been posted; if so, sorry. I find it fascinating.
>
> > http://www.jefferybahr.com/Publications/PubRankings.asp
>
> Now this is really splendid.  If these rankings become generally accepted,
> they will prove extremely useful in all sorts of ways.
>
> This usefulness would be enhanced if the literary community would agree on
a
> common way to apply the rankings to individual poets.  I suggest the
> following:
>
> There are by my count 289 journals on the list. I propose that we assign
each
> journal a number based on this rank, from 289 for The Atlantic Monthly,
the
> top ranked journal, to 1 for Wisconsin Review, which is last in line.
Then
> any individual poet could be assigned a number -- call it the Verse
> Acceptability Prestige Denominator -- calculated by multiplying the number
of
> pages of verse which that poet has published in each magazine by the
> magazine's rank, and adding them together.
>
> As an example, let us consider moderately successful hypothetical poet
named
> Wentworth Windsor, who has published 3 pages in Ploughshares (rank 281,)
1
> page in Kenyon Review (278,)  7 pages in Field (267,) 6 pages in Missouri
> Review (219,)  4 in Dark Horse (176,) and 2 in Clark Street Review (10.)
If
> I've calculated correctly (I was never good at math,) Mr. Windsor would
have
> quite respectable VAPD of 5028.
>
> VAPD scores could be discreetly listed on business cards, resumes, cover
> letters for submissions, job and grant applications, and even on name tags
> worn by poets at workshops, readings, seminars, and MLA conventions. The
> resulting efficiencies would, if it be not immodest thus to praise my own
> proposal, be mind-boggling.  For instance, schools hiring new faculty or
> writers in residence, as well as committees handing out grants, would find
> their deliberations very much shorter and easier:  all they would need to
do
> is look at candidate's VAPD scores, and their choice would be clear.
> Likewise, editors could simply set a cut-off VAPD point for contributors,
> below which they would not accept any submissions, and above which they
would
> accept any, space permitting -- a procedure which would save both editors
and
> contributors a huge amount of time.
>
> The presence of VAPD numbers on name tags at literary and academic
gatherings
> would be enable participants to use their time at such functions much more
> effectively.  A glance at a new acquaintance's name tag would tell you by
the
> VAPD displayed there just how much time you should spend conversing with
that
> person, how hard you should laugh at that person's jokes, and how readily
you
> should respond to that person's suggestion to get together for a drink or
some
> more vigorously sociable activity.  VAPD scores could also be used to
> determine the relative times allocated to poets at readings, and even the
> order of seating at literary society dinners.
>
> Some people will no doubt object that such innovations would be artificial
and
> arbitrary, but in fact they would be no more or less so than the present
way
> of doing things.  The use of VAPD scores would not in any way change the
> standards people currently apply to the situations mentioned above; it
would
> merely enable everyone to apply those standards more easily and
confidently
> than is currently the case.
>
>                           Jon Corelis (VAPD 372)
>
>
> =====================================
> Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org
>
>     www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
> =====================================
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:01:05 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      Re: Interrupt your Routines
In-Reply-To:  <000001c4fab3$d8806680$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

belated response:
i don't do drugs
i go to bed early like proust
what is a post-modernist?
there is sense to everything
just depends how you approach it...

At 1:39 PM +1000 1/15/05, K Zervos wrote:
>i suppose you had to be there
>
>i can imagine these poems as late night dialogues. Oh and did i mention
>drugs.
>
>i have enough trouble with words i am familiar with
>
>but that's just me
>
>in the eighties i used to have arguments with post- modernists at parties
>
>there is no sense to it, i'd say
>
>now i understand that what they were trying to say is
>
>there is no sense to it.
>
>
>
>komninos zervos
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 14/01/05


--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:13:38 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
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i love oatmeal, oatmeal, oatmeal, i have it in the AM every AM with
oat bran and a little skim milk i like it cold, don't have the
patience to cook in the morning...and when i go to conferences i
bring a little bag of oatmeal and oatbran mixt...so i can have my 1/2
cup in the AM with the creamers they leave in the hotel rooms to go
w/ the coffee in the coffee machines they leave...mmm beats a $15
room service hotel breakfast before that first session or whatever...
--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:18:14 -0800
Reply-To:     Layne Russell 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Layne Russell 
Subject:      off topic
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Does anyone here live in Bellingham Washington, or know someone I might =
be able to contact in this area?  Please send back channel, =
layne@whiteowlweb.com.

Thank you so much,
Layne

http://whiteowlweb.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:40:30 +1100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alison Croggon 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Oatmeal makes an _excellent_ face mask.

A

On 17/1/05 9:13 AM, "Maria Damon"  wrote:

> i love oatmeal, oatmeal, oatmeal, i have it in the AM every AM with
> oat bran and a little skim milk i like it cold, don't have the
> patience to cook in the morning...and when i go to conferences i
> bring a little bag of oatmeal and oatbran mixt...so i can have my 1/2
> cup in the AM with the creamers they leave in the hotel rooms to go
> w/ the coffee in the coffee machines they leave...mmm beats a $15
> room service hotel breakfast before that first session or whatever...
> --



Alison Croggon

Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
Editor, Masthead:  http://masthead.net.au
Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:04:37 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      panix name hijacked
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

As you may know the panix.com domain was hijacked for the past day or so; it
seems to be up now. But to make sure you reach me, please send also to
sondheim@gmail.com - Thanks, Alan



nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/
http://www.asondheim.org/
WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/
http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim
Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:25:29 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      what's happening
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

   Panix Shell Services
Panix - Public Access Networks Corporation
Panix victim of domain name hijacking
Status as of Sun Jan 16 17:50:40 EST 2005

Recovery from the panix.com domain name hijack is underway. The registrar in
Melbourne has reverted the domain back to us, and the global Internet registry
and domain name servers are now showing the correct information.

However, due to the distributed nature of the Internet domain name system, it
will take 4-24 more hours before the false data from the hijacking expires and
is discarded by the various name servers. Our customers and servers can be
reached by using the panix.net domain, as described below.

(old information left below for reference).


Panix's main domain name, panix.com, has been hijacked by parties unknown. The
ownership of panix.com was moved to a company in Australia, the actual DNS
records were moved to a company in the United Kingdom, and panix.com's mail has
been redirected to yet another company in Canada. Panix staff are currently
working around the clock to recover our domain, but this may take until Monday,
due to the time differences and difficulties in reaching responsible parties
over the weekend.

For most customers, accesses to Panix using the panix.com domain will not work
or will end up at a false site. Since the Internet domain name system is
distributed, some network providers still have the correct information in their
name servers, but this could change at any moment.

As a temporary workaround, you can use the panix.net domain in place of
panix.com. In other words, if you're trying to log onto "shell.panix.com" or
see your mail at "mail.panix.com," use "shell.panix.net" or "mail.panix.net"
instead. However, you should only change the names of hosts that you connect to
or your return address: the name you use to login to our mail servers,
username@panix.com, should stay the same.

Mail to username@panix.com is currently being redirected to the false site ,
and should be considered lost or compromised if it does not arrive in your
Panix mailbox. If you have online accounts that authenticate via email address,
you might wish to protect them against fraud by changing that address to your
username "@panix.net".
When contacting hosts that use SSL security (URLs that begin with "https"
rather than "http", or SSL-wrapped services such as secure SMTP, secure IMAP,
or secure POP), you will see a hostname error. The server will present a
certificate that says it is "something.panix.com", and your browser or mail
program, which expects to see "something.panix.net", will complain about the
mismatch. This is an expected consequence of using the "panix.net" workaround.
If you have urgent concerns that are not addressed by this message, you can
contact us by calling +1 (212) 741-4400, and pressing 0. (You may need to leave
a message for us, but we're checking frequently.) For less-than urgent
concerns, please write to us at staff@panix.net.



Panix, the oldest commercial Internet provider in New York, is dedicated to
providing stable and reliable Internet access, email, netnews and UNIX
computing services to the public. We started in 1989, before the advent of the
Internet, and we're still going strong.

Panix is a full-service ISP, offering World Wide Web hosting, Internet
connectivity of all kinds in the New York metro area (New York City, Long
Island, Westchester, Rockland County, and New Jersey), and National Dialup--
with dialup access in over 1100 locations in 49 states.

We also specialize in UNIX shell access, from anywhere on the Internet,
anywhere in the world.

Many of our users are still receiving variations of the Beagle virus we warned
about early in March. This is email that forges "From:" addresses so that they
appear to be from Panix, and include signatures like "The Panix.com Team" and
mentioning this web site.

These are forged and they're affecting ISPs around the globe, not just Panix.

We have made some additional information about these viruses available.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:56:44 -0500
Reply-To:     editor@pavementsaw.org
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         David Baratier 
Organization: Pavement Saw Press
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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I should back up a little bit
I was trying to figure out from Donald
what, if any, animosity existed between the two
as on one of my eastward tours I ended up at
the Dodge poetry festival, where most of everybody
gets in caustic jabs about each other and I was
sitting near Joyce who, at the time, I did not know
also wrote poetry, and, in fact, would perform it later
so I was asking her fiction questions
when the announcer said
Donald Hall is our next reader.
So I said "Shouldn't we listen to him?"
"Honey," Oates crackled,
"He's not a Hall, more like a Foyer."

Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
PO Box 6291
Columbus OH 43206
USA

http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:44:18 -0500
Reply-To:     jUStin!katKO 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         jUStin!katKO 
Subject:      there is no sense to it
In-Reply-To:  <-5478222214518860492@unknownmsgid>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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re the below quoted text

there is inevitable sense to all things sensible

to claim that something has or doesn't have sense is assuming a single
sense, which i assumed to be the intellect

= reductive
=blinders

boring = makes sense
interesting = wakes sense/s

i hope that makes sense

jUStin!katKO

> On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:39:40 +1000, K Zervos  wrote:
> > i suppose you had to be there
> >
> > i can imagine these poems as late night dialogues. Oh and did i mention
> > drugs.
> >
> > i have enough trouble with words i am familiar with
> >
> > but that's just me
> >
> > in the eighties i used to have arguments with post- modernists at parties
> >
> > there is no sense to it, i'd say
> >
> > now i understand that what they were trying to say is
> >
> > there is no sense to it.
> >
> > komninos zervos
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:08:05 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mairead Byrne 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Joyce started off as a poet actually David, it's rather amazing in the
light of the consequent work in fiction though some would say the poetry
of the later fiction hands down beats the poetry of the earlier poetry
or that the later fiction dissolves into poetry though that implies
fiction has boundaries poetry doesn't.  What I'm surprised at is that
Joyce was at Dodge in the first place.  I didn't know he had visited
America.  That must have been after the trial.  Do you know Gogarty's
poem "After Reading Hall's 'Toy'" (sometimes called "Ringsend"): "I will
live in Ringsend with a red-headed whore, / And the fan-light gone in /
Where it lights Donald Hall's door," etc?  I suppose Hall could have
taken offense but doesn't seem to have, they were such jolly chaps the
old masters.  But I've often tried to find that poem of Hall's called
"Toy" -- do you know it?
Mairead
(By the way have you noticed a lot of people on this list talking about
what they have for their breakfast?  I remember the grand old days of
POETICS when people poured scorn and eviscerated one another.  These are
strange lost times.)

www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com

>>> David Baratier  01/16/05 7:56 PM >>>
I should back up a little bit
I was trying to figure out from Donald
what, if any, animosity existed between the two
as on one of my eastward tours I ended up at
the Dodge poetry festival, where most of everybody
gets in caustic jabs about each other and I was
sitting near Joyce who, at the time, I did not know
also wrote poetry, and, in fact, would perform it later
so I was asking her fiction questions
when the announcer said
Donald Hall is our next reader.
So I said "Shouldn't we listen to him?"
"Honey," Oates crackled,
"He's not a Hall, more like a Foyer."

Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
PO Box 6291
Columbus OH 43206
USA

http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:21:24 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      the watcher of skies is always there
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; FORMAT=flowed

the watcher of skies is always there
soaring so high in the ice-cold air
we go into her cage and live in her lair
her beak is so strong, her feathers so fair
to see such a sight is indeed now quite rare
my fingers ungloved, my skin was quite bare
she knew i was safe and handled with care
my life and my love, we made quite a pair

http://www.asondheim.org/hawk1.mov

_
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:24:49 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: objective journal rankings
MIME-Version: 1.0
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hey speaking of the atlantic monthly i'm mentioned a few times in the new
issue by francis davis a jazz critic  who wrote about matt shipp a "jazz"
pianist and friend of mine shit i forgot to share that until i saw it
mentioned in this ranking thing

hey there's a minor intro into the jazz world for a new zealander  ...bad
joke

tonight i saw a bad play based on one of the heaviest tragedies of all
time - MEDEA

oatmeal & cinnamon


medea fed her kids cinnamon
oatmeal  w/raisins
then stabbed them a few times
to make sure they were dead

jason had fleeced her of their love
betrayed her
abandoned her
& she took revenge

the oatmeal was instant
it was an instant rendering
of the great tragedy

i would not have liked to be in that
poison dress of fire
that jason's new bride wore
uch burnt flesh
a wedding gift from medea

anyway
the medea is the massage
as they used to
say
or was that message?

& one mechanical bride's
as good as the
next

what medea says
cannot be taught it can only
be inherited

i knew the kids who played her kids

they took their shirts off
willing
tho they both seemed
too old for the part

i like oatmeal
& think i will have some
for breakfast
tonight.


                                                                    steve
dalachinsky nyc 1/17/04
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:43:32 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: understanding what we can
MIME-Version: 1.0
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thanks mj your comment greatly appreciated
as i too have an ego i thought it - the post-diluvian pc went completely
unnoticed by this  dare i call it a list   hey what dya think  sexiest
pome of  the post noah's ark period?

lines of pome shifted as it gor sent

also last sentence should read


i answered them all         typo   actually last line perhaps not really
necessary
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:29:39 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      test message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

please ignore - trying to figure out whether this is going through or
bouncing - Alan



nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/
http://www.asondheim.org/
WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/
http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim
Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 01:39:17 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

golden aviator

sideways housewives

desparate globes



3:00....storm track..drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:10:17 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      Gregory Whitehead
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Probably quite a few on this list know a little bit of Gregory Whitehead's
work. He is an extrordinary audio artist. Ken Goldsmith has put together an
amazing selection of Whitehead's 1984-2004 audio works at
http://www.ubu.com/sound/whitehead.html (or
http://vispo.com/temp/whitehead.m3u if you have a PC). This is a lengthy
collection of 53 pieces. Some are excerpted, but most are complete. The
selection also includes some fascinating texts.

Whitehead launched his own site not too long ago at
http://gregorywhitehead.com ; this has quite a bit of audio work and writing
in it also.

I first heard his work in 85. A piece called "If a Voice Like, then What?"
appeared on an anthology called Tellus along with work by Susan Stone (from
KPFA in San Francisco) and Jay Allison, among others. It was clear that the
three of them (they're friends) were approaching literary radio in a new
way. They were cognizant of the media of recorded sound and radio. They
weren't importing debilitating presuppositions from print or 'radio drama'
or film, etc. Though Whitehead is familiar with those and other forms/media;
his background, before coming to audio work, was in theory and theatre.

Over the years, Whitehead has developed poetics of audio in his work and
writing about audio/radio that I continue to learn from. The cut is an
important characteristic of recorded sound; wounds are an important subject
in Whitehead's work: the two are profoundly related in his poetics.
Mortality and destruction are explored even into the realms of the tragic in
his work; formally, you'll note that some of his works proceed via sonic
destructions of many types. Which is an important part of what makes this
work both new and deeply affective: the congruence of form and subject in
Whitehead's work suggests a  poetics in which the characteristics of the
medium become ways of knowing and feeling. The characteristics of recorded
sound are transformed by the poet into profound literary devices. It's a
mature 'Writing on Air', which is the title of one of his early cassettes.

ja
http://vispo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:02:53 +0100
Reply-To:     Malcolm Davidson 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Malcolm Davidson 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> Oatmeal makes an _excellent_ face mask.

If you're old enough, you may recall that Joey
"The Quaker" Avenasativa, the leading goalie
for the Boston Bruins in the middle 1950s,
wore an oatmeal mask until the regulation changes.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:22:56 +1300
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "richard.tylr" 
Subject:      Re: My Neglected Project - the begining of EYELIGHT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

  The reason I am posting this is not to show off or anything but by =
putting it online -as Alan does with his projects - it will kind of =
force me to do something I keep procrastinating on this project - which =
had a kind of Zukofskian ambition - although I haven't  read all of 'A' =
but I liked the idea of his incorporating his family in that poem. Also =
I was also interested in Bach's method of recirculating his own stuff =
into The St. John's Passion. The idea is to have about 4  or 5 (or maybe =
much more) different strands or thematic areas - these I wanted to bring =
to gether and kind of deconstruct or compress into one form or the first =
things would be like the poem Eyelight and then it would end upas  the =
poem immediately below  - which is only a sketch really  eg  - note some =
of the lines like Susan Howe's or Olson in some of their works are on an =
angle (but I cant do tat   - I don't know how to do it on a computer ) I =
also was going to incorporate visual art of my own): so the final form =
(but there is no final thing as Eyelight is kind of progressive or =
processional) -  (I haven't done the whole page but the phrases come =
from Books A1 A2 B1 to F etc - each of these having different theme eg =
one is labelled "personal"  and hence I have below Victor in there - he =
is my son and lost his eye to a baton strike by the NZ police in 1990 =
but eyelight itself is from another poem so eyelight is about vision in =
the wider sense also about mystery and so on - so its is about what I =
know - or think I know and what I am learning and what I will never =
know:=20


                                                       these black faced =
mirrors

                  Maori

                                                                      =
first people

  Can I, a being, bright yet dark, unblind

  =20

  (by grass and dust the road I strode =20



          let's read  "just read"=20



                             (in)

     breed thus a                      made from wood=20

                                                                         =
        in seed is

               origins    things    =20

                                                     frantic=20

      shiver-reflect    =20

                                   who dances claps

                                               THE EYE

  +first people+                in                            fragment =
worlds

                                                =20

  this, all this                            insects -oxygen  enters



                     Where?  I tried to explain=20



                                      Nothing

  Victor     nerves                                                  =
bang boom!

  =
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---------

  The above is a sample of my method - so some of the things in tis =
"final " thigh come from eg 1) poems I have written of a more oracular =
or normative style (or what you will) 2) Science 3) Things about origins =
-hence things from science and about NZ early history etc and also about =
place 4) The personal 4) Questions about God  (although as Michael =
Morrissey (and I imagine many others do I change God to Dog to some how =
take away the connotations of the word -its all powerful- its domination =
in the language I suppose)and origins (again)  eg "where did the first =
people come from" is something my daughter used to get quite frantic =
asking me - as  young father I couldn't answer - the question frightened =
me - still does. 5) Problems of sanity - I saw Oliver Sachs on TV and =
read one of his books - the tone of his documentaries had an enormous =
impact on me  -in fact the very tone (his facial expressions  etc) and =
way of his speaking and presenting what he did -and the information - =
but I was interested in a semi -paranoid atmosphere it created in me - =
which lead to some poems I wrote - arts of which are recirculated - I =
have a lot more including things about Art; things to do with music; =
science; technology (I was a technician);  and so on - potentially there =
is no limit and much interlinks - I also have a "random section" of =
found texts etc and or where I just "scribbled" anything I wanted (I'm =
too good at that hence my desire to do a kind of structured project!) - =
all of this is rebuilt with the formal poems such  as Eyelight beginning =
the work and it transforming then to a new  "formal poem and so on - so =
that it kind of "pumps" - history is in there -although I don't have the =
knowledge of or understanding of an Olson or a  Pound -also I had WCW's =
Paterson in mind -   (This poem starts the project). =20



                                        Eyelight           =20

  =20

                    How, at this light of time

  Can I, a being bright yet dark, unblind=20

  this aspect under the eye, and, breeding:

  breed thus a truth? Not

  a general, transcendent truth that sparkles

  like a light on a gay green Christmas tree, but

  some signal interchanged: some moment:=20

  this, all this....        =20

  =20

  It began somehow, and I

  and you also, got caught up in it all:=20

  you know, the usual thing, the he/she/it and the=20

  terrible lovely, and and      =20

  =20

  the Begin: the big big single bang bang boom! =20

  =20

  the singular begin.                                                    =
                  it hangs here

  =20

  Our task is: never to waver, to neither look right nor left:

  and indeed as I know you are thinking, there are certain uncertainties

                    whose monstrous beauty is almost nearly tiresome:

  Why couldnt the matter: the deep stuff in the dark spring of things:

  why couldnt it get in control? Why wernt we informed immediately?

  There has to be an inquiry of course. What was the matter with=20

  the matter? Could I tell you? That it kept throwing molds, kept

  re-shaping - kept touching the clay and rebreeding life and so on:

  but nothing is ever perfect as you've probably noticed. Matter

  and fire for example are surely forever at war. =20

  =20

  The special thing that burns in the eye: they are in conflict.

  Eternal. The usual thing: Dog has set up a conflict, a complex:

  a complex conflict like a five volume analysis of Finnegan's Wake.

  The Joycean, the Miltonic thing: which ever turns you on or out.

  =20

       nothing is connected - somehow.

  =20

  An enormous luminosity grew between her eyes and we were dumfounded: =
forgetting what was origin, orange, apple, or

  where the serpent had parked the sedan beside the spreading sneer of =
the evening's trees who were lush and unapproachable in the growing and =
licentious gloom whose possibilities mean so much, especially to the few

  in the know. So I stand outside in derided non-decision, forever=20

  a pastel perhaps: struggling to at least reach the status of a =
syllable, or even a new word. Or had you noticed. Lets go inside...I =
have things to discuss...



  Richard Taylor
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:49:41 +1300
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "richard.tylr" 
Subject:      Oats and Bread - an Old Poem
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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I kow ther is a lot of jiving going on about oats and Joyce Carol Oates =
- I am quite a fan of her short stories and some of her novels - never =
read her poems  - one of the best novels I ever read was "Bellefleur" by =
Joyce Carol Oates.  Her is a poem I did when I kind of "started back" =
intopoetry and I rad abookon "creative writing " about basically how to =
generate ideas in writing poetry: and metods to adopt etc -practices - =
they were good - - Dylan Thomas's poem was discussed  - starting, I =
think   "This bread I break ... " so with that poem in mind I wrote this =
- I'm getting my poems onto my PC and soon for the record so as I do I =
might sened some of the ones I think reasonable - this was written about =
15 years ago - I wouldnt write like this now...
                                   =20

              This Bread

=20

I would not think that this bread=20

I eat was once the blood of Christ:

To me, it is only a soft and tasty, unsymbolic

wheat born thing.  It was loaded from the back of trucks=20

and carried into shops.

This bread I eat

Enters me, is softened in my mouth,

Made a bolus,

Travels down

And is cut by acid in my stomach.

Then by life magic

It enters my most un-Christ-like blood -

And in snipped up molecules, crosses membranes down

And diffuses in my cells.

And I am Man

Bread eating man.



Oat of Life

Sustain me - refuel the endless engines of my brain

Unsymbolic

My heart pumps systaltically. But why do=20

Strange musics wrack my working brain?

It is said he was a carpenter,

Was reborn,

Given thorn

And made fires for the wondering. I love old stories:

And I do not deny that the last word shall want a word.

=20

But I consume

Made by labour bread

Kneaded by human hands, needed.

=20

Visions and shinings=20

Catapult my heart. High,=20

I revisit golden fields with golden wheat -

But when I wake -

Bread is still bread

And for my life, I eat.=20

=20

Richard Taylor=20

=20

=20

                   =20
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:11:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Ron Silliman 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ron Silliman 
Subject:      Silliman's Blog
Comments: To: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT TOPICS:

Poetry & parenting

The future of journals =E2=80=93=20
hard copy or soft?

Scorsese at his best =E2=80=93
choreographing The Aviator
(props to Cate Blanchett)

Pwoermds =E2=80=93
one-word poems

Performance & poetry:
the perfection of new forms
as additions to nature

Why the ballad?
A note from Rachel Blau DuPlessis

On not reading
Guy Davenport

The Sexiest Poem of 2004
(Will the real=20
Charles Bernstein
please stand up)

3 Milwaukee innovators
Morgan Gibson, Karl Young, Karl Gartung
(GAM looks to its community's roots)

Before Sunset:
The character-centric work of art

PENNsound:
a note on archives & archiving

Tsering Wangmo Dhompa's
In the Absent Everyday =E2=80=93
the Tibetan-American view
turning surrealism on its head

Marathon readings
& the idea of community

Some horror is beyond words:
Looking back at '04

Susan Minot's Rapture:
Constructing character
as a problem in writing

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:07:46 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Halvard Johnson 
Subject:      Poems by others:  Hilda Morley (?), "Xmas"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Xmas

Down Fifth Avenue in a taxi,
2 weeks before Xmas,
                                    my heart is
gone,     gone away,
                                 far away
                                                There are
stars, lights, illuminated
frosting all over the fronts of
buildings,
                everything is
an offering
                    (  for us,   to buy   )
But even alone now,
                                 a rising excitement
possesses me,
                         exhilaration,
warmth   & I can remember when it was
all celebration for us,
                                 both of us Jewish
but an excitement possessed us,
                                                  those years
of your health,
                               years of our striding
about the city together
                                   choosing,
thinking: a gift for this one or that one
                                   & you spent hours
inventing red & green scribbles
to cover your cards with:
                                        declarations [of]
love & joy in friendship
                                     & branches
of green & holly were hung in the house
                                     & what
I miss now,            the sound of your voice
                                 your laughter

                                           [love from Hilda
                                            December 25, 1982]


Note: A day or two ago, Lynda and I visited (once
again) the Strand, over on Broadway and came home
lugging books. In one of mine (*Ironwood* 20, found
on one of the outdoor $1 shelves and purchased to
replace my long-lost copy) was a twice-folded sheet
of 8 1/2 x 11 paper upon which the poem above was
typed, the bracketed portions written in in ink. At the
top center of the page is a piece of scotch tape that
looks like it may have been used to hang the poem up
somewhere, since there's nothing at the bottom of the
page to suggest it was used as a seal. At the bottom
left of the inside cover of the magazine, written in ink,
is "Christmas 1982" over "NYC," and in the right-
hand bottom corner the name Judy Epstein.

I don't know if this poem was ever published, but it
might be one of a series of elegies Morley wrote for
her husband Stefan Wolpe, who had died in 1972.
Any information would be appreciated.

1/17/05

Hal

Halvard Johnson
===============
email: halvard@earthlink.net
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:53:32 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      plus change...plus meme....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

o lang po

po lang o




drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:00:13 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         alexander saliby 
Subject:      Re: My Neglected Project - the begining of EYELIGHT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Richard,=20
This is my favorite line and moment of thought in the work: "Matter

  and fire for example are surely forever at war."=20

It is from the chaos of origins, from the chaotic explosions of outer =
and inner spaces that life and life shaping ideas emerge.  Passion =
births creativity and passion thrives in an environment of conflict. =20
Alex=20
P.S. I rather like the piece thus far, and had no difficulty feeling it =
was already "finished" but then I'm not the writer, I'm merely the =
reader.  =20

=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: richard.tylr=20
  To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 3:22 AM
  Subject: Re: My Neglected Project - the begining of EYELIGHT


    The reason I am posting this is not to show off or anything but by =
putting it online -as Alan does with his projects - it will kind of =
force me to do something I keep procrastinating on this project - which =
had a kind of Zukofskian ambition - although I haven't  read all of 'A' =
but I liked the idea of his incorporating his family in that poem. Also =
I was also interested in Bach's method of recirculating his own stuff =
into The St. John's Passion. The idea is to have about 4  or 5 (or maybe =
much more) different strands or thematic areas - these I wanted to bring =
to gether and kind of deconstruct or compress into one form or the first =
things would be like the poem Eyelight and then it would end upas  the =
poem immediately below  - which is only a sketch really  eg  - note some =
of the lines like Susan Howe's or Olson in some of their works are on an =
angle (but I cant do tat   - I don't know how to do it on a computer ) I =
also was going to incorporate visual art of my own): so the final form =
(but there is no final thing as Eyelight is kind of progressive or =
processional) -  (I haven't done the whole page but the phrases come =
from Books A1 A2 B1 to F etc - each of these having different theme eg =
one is labelled "personal"  and hence I have below Victor in there - he =
is my son and lost his eye to a baton strike by the NZ police in 1990 =
but eyelight itself is from another poem so eyelight is about vision in =
the wider sense also about mystery and so on - so its is about what I =
know - or think I know and what I am learning and what I will never =
know:=20


                                                         these black =
faced mirrors

                    Maori

                                                                        =
first people

    Can I, a being, bright yet dark, unblind

    =20

    (by grass and dust the road I strode =20



            let's read  "just read"=20



                               (in)

       breed thus a                      made from wood=20

                                                                         =
          in seed is

                 origins    things    =20

                                                       frantic=20

        shiver-reflect    =20

                                     who dances claps

                                                 THE EYE

    +first people+                in                            fragment =
worlds

                                                  =20

    this, all this                            insects -oxygen  enters



                       Where?  I tried to explain=20



                                        Nothing

    Victor     nerves                                                  =
bang boom!

    =
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---------

    The above is a sample of my method - so some of the things in tis =
"final " thigh come from eg 1) poems I have written of a more oracular =
or normative style (or what you will) 2) Science 3) Things about origins =
-hence things from science and about NZ early history etc and also about =
place 4) The personal 4) Questions about God  (although as Michael =
Morrissey (and I imagine many others do I change God to Dog to some how =
take away the connotations of the word -its all powerful- its domination =
in the language I suppose)and origins (again)  eg "where did the first =
people come from" is something my daughter used to get quite frantic =
asking me - as  young father I couldn't answer - the question frightened =
me - still does. 5) Problems of sanity - I saw Oliver Sachs on TV and =
read one of his books - the tone of his documentaries had an enormous =
impact on me  -in fact the very tone (his facial expressions  etc) and =
way of his speaking and presenting what he did -and the information - =
but I was interested in a semi -paranoid atmosphere it created in me - =
which lead to some poems I wrote - arts of which are recirculated - I =
have a lot more including things about Art; things to do with music; =
science; technology (I was a technician);  and so on - potentially there =
is no limit and much interlinks - I also have a "random section" of =
found texts etc and or where I just "scribbled" anything I wanted (I'm =
too good at that hence my desire to do a kind of structured project!) - =
all of this is rebuilt with the formal poems such  as Eyelight beginning =
the work and it transforming then to a new  "formal poem and so on - so =
that it kind of "pumps" - history is in there -although I don't have the =
knowledge of or understanding of an Olson or a  Pound -also I had WCW's =
Paterson in mind -   (This poem starts the project). =20



                                          Eyelight           =20

    =20

                      How, at this light of time

    Can I, a being bright yet dark, unblind=20

    this aspect under the eye, and, breeding:

    breed thus a truth? Not

    a general, transcendent truth that sparkles

    like a light on a gay green Christmas tree, but

    some signal interchanged: some moment:=20

    this, all this....        =20

    =20

    It began somehow, and I

    and you also, got caught up in it all:=20

    you know, the usual thing, the he/she/it and the=20

    terrible lovely, and and      =20

    =20

    the Begin: the big big single bang bang boom! =20

    =20

    the singular begin.                                                  =
                    it hangs here

    =20

    Our task is: never to waver, to neither look right nor left:

    and indeed as I know you are thinking, there are certain =
uncertainties

                      whose monstrous beauty is almost nearly tiresome:

    Why couldnt the matter: the deep stuff in the dark spring of things:

    why couldnt it get in control? Why wernt we informed immediately?

    There has to be an inquiry of course. What was the matter with=20

    the matter? Could I tell you? That it kept throwing molds, kept

    re-shaping - kept touching the clay and rebreeding life and so on:

    but nothing is ever perfect as you've probably noticed. Matter

    and fire for example are surely forever at war. =20

    =20

    The special thing that burns in the eye: they are in conflict.

    Eternal. The usual thing: Dog has set up a conflict, a complex:

    a complex conflict like a five volume analysis of Finnegan's Wake.

    The Joycean, the Miltonic thing: which ever turns you on or out.

    =20

         nothing is connected - somehow.

    =20

    An enormous luminosity grew between her eyes and we were dumfounded: =
forgetting what was origin, orange, apple, or

    where the serpent had parked the sedan beside the spreading sneer of =
the evening's trees who were lush and unapproachable in the growing and =
licentious gloom whose possibilities mean so much, especially to the few

    in the know. So I stand outside in derided non-decision, forever=20

    a pastel perhaps: struggling to at least reach the status of a =
syllable, or even a new word. Or had you noticed. Lets go inside...I =
have things to discuss...



    Richard Taylor
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:13:11 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      Poem:  Sort of a ballad
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sort of a ballad


Davy Crockett's
lost in the woods
with a pig in a poke
and a bill of goods;
he went out hunting
for the Cisco Kid
and ended up ashamed
of whatever he did.

        Baby, baby,
        beat my heart,
        snap its strings
        and make it smart;
        New York City's
        floating in air:
        is it always this way
        everywhere?

Baby Face Nelson
and Abraham Lincoln
went into the bar
and came out stinkin',
and Rip Van Winkle
has a new disguise:
a riverboat gambler
with a pack of lies.

        Mama, mama,
        lift my basket:
        looks like Chicago's
        blown a gasket.
        All these people
        would be better off dead
        than trying to live
        on the devil's bread.

There's plague back east
and dust out west,
floods down south
and the north's depressed;
the cargo's vanished,
the wheels are gone:
this wagon's broke
and we won't see dawn.

        Father, father,
        shoot my wad,
        crack my whip
        and bust my sod:
        San Francisco
        fell into the sea,
        but nobody noticed
        except for me.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:51:08 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Aaron Belz 
Subject:      short poems need home
MIME-Version: 1.0
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              reply-type=original
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Dear  friends,

If anyone knows of a journal that is currently seeking short poems, I have
about 20 that need a home. These are 1-6 line poems that are worthy of any
self-respecting journal that publishes edgier or less predictable work.

I'm not quite sure how to submit them.  I have tried sprinkling a few of
them in with longer poems in a standard submission --- a sort of baby's
breath in the bouquet --- but editors have grabbed the longer poems without
paying attention to them.  I have tried sending them out as a group, but
they have not been accepted.  I conclude that there is a bias against tiny
poems.

Any suggestions welcome; please backchannel:  Aaron@belz.net

Thanks,
Aaron
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:53:46 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Gary Barwin 
Subject:      ranklings
In-Reply-To:  <200501170611.j0H5k6dT080154@f05n16.cac.psu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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UB Poetics discussion group  writes:
>Date:    Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:16:36 -0800
>From:    Jon Corelis 
>Subject: Re: objective journal rankings
Do you know Robertson Davies' mock system for rating female beauty?

If Helen of Troy had a face that launched a thousand ships, then a
standard unit can be established that ranks how many ships a certain face
is able to launch. The unit is the milli-Helen (mH) and Helen of course
rates 1000mH.

I would like to see other stats for poets too. Like baseball cards. What
stats would we track? It'd be helpful in giving play-by-play of poetry
readings, a new service that the CBC is considering for their live poetry
broadcasts.


______________________________
GARY BARWIN
garybarwin.com

escargot post: 180 Dufferin St. Hamilton ON Canada L8S 3N7
pharyngeal access: 905-525-7545
flea mail: himself@garybarwin.com
telepathy:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:57:13 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Hugh Steinberg 
Subject:      Re: short poems need home
In-Reply-To:  <008b01c4fcbd$205fbc20$230110ac@AaronDell>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Actually, if folks could frontchannel this info -- I know a number of people with the same
dilemma.

Aught had a recent issue on very short poems.

Hugh Steinberg
--- Aaron Belz  wrote:

> Dear  friends,
>
> If anyone knows of a journal that is currently seeking short poems, I have
> about 20 that need a home. These are 1-6 line poems that are worthy of any
> self-respecting journal that publishes edgier or less predictable work.
>
> I'm not quite sure how to submit them.  I have tried sprinkling a few of
> them in with longer poems in a standard submission --- a sort of baby's
> breath in the bouquet --- but editors have grabbed the longer poems without
> paying attention to them.  I have tried sending them out as a group, but
> they have not been accepted.  I conclude that there is a bias against tiny
> poems.
>
> Any suggestions welcome; please backchannel:  Aaron@belz.net
>
> Thanks,
> Aaron
>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:14:30 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Halvard Johnson 
Subject:      Re: short poems need home
In-Reply-To:  <008b01c4fcbd$205fbc20$230110ac@AaronDell>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

{    Dear  friends,
{
{    If anyone knows of a journal that is currently seeking short poems, I have
{    about 20 that need a home. These are 1-6 line poems that are worthy of any
{    self-respecting journal that publishes edgier or less predictable work.
{
{    I'm not quite sure how to submit them.  I have tried sprinkling a few of
{    them in with longer poems in a standard submission --- a sort of baby's
{    breath in the bouquet --- but editors have grabbed the longer poems without
{    paying attention to them.  I have tried sending them out as a group, but
{    they have not been accepted.  I conclude that there is a bias against tiny
{    poems.
{
{    Any suggestions welcome; please backchannel:  Aaron@belz.net
{
{    Thanks,
{    Aaron

Write each one out on a tiny slip of paper (no larger than 3 x 5"), and then
get drunk with a friend and, after folding them into little boats, set them free
upon a stream or river of your choice.

Hal          "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam."

Halvard Johnson
===============
email: halvard@earthlink.net
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:55:43 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Stephen Vincent 
Subject:      Re: Poems by others:  Hilda Morley (?), "Xmas"
Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and
          poetics 
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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This is a lovely story, Hal, about discovering the Hilda Moreley poem. I
have always been taken by the way the poem or novel may be brought either
freshly back into light, or first discovered, in contexts that are not
aligned with "where I usually do my reading." (Kitchen table, living room
table, or this often godforsaken iMac Monitor - where,ironically, it's a
delight to read the Hilda Morley poem and your note!). I suspect each of us
could write small histories of discovering poems in unexpected places. I
always hated reading novels in college - the pressures, etc. - and I was a
very slow reader. But I remember the great pleasure of reading Faulkner's
Light in August while hitchhiking around Crete in August of 1972. There were
probably 5 cars and 10 trucks on Crete then! Sitting on my backpack for long
periods in the August heat were entirely compatible with reading Faulkner's
prose. I will never forget it.
Or then, recently, finding a copy of William Carlos Williams' ND Selected
Shorter Poems on the street, apparently dumped, the acid-filled paper a
lunch bag brown, taking it home and reading it aloud in the kitchen to
Sandy, my partner, my voice felt like I was rescuing those wonderful poems
back from the dead.
When Momo's Press went out of business in the mid-eighties, and I had lots
of inventory, as some kind of odd, populist missionary, I would occasionally
place books on benches and ledges and sidewalks through out the City -
hoping that other folks might have a similar sense of surprise, taking joy
or some kind of mystery in reading a poem by someone, say, - Victor Cruz, or
Jessica Hagedorn or myself - of whom most had probably had never heard - as
such would still be true of 99% of those who write contemporary poems with
usually such small readerships, no matter intense our immediate communities
of attention.

Thanks again, Hal.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com






> Xmas
>
> Down Fifth Avenue in a taxi,
> 2 weeks before Xmas,
>                                   my heart is
> gone,     gone away,
>                                far away
>                                               There are
> stars, lights, illuminated
> frosting all over the fronts of
> buildings,
>               everything is
> an offering
>                   (  for us,   to buy   )
> But even alone now,
>                                a rising excitement
> possesses me,
>                        exhilaration,
> warmth   & I can remember when it was
> all celebration for us,
>                                both of us Jewish
> but an excitement possessed us,
>                                                 those years
> of your health,
>                              years of our striding
> about the city together
>                                  choosing,
> thinking: a gift for this one or that one
>                                  & you spent hours
> inventing red & green scribbles
> to cover your cards with:
>                                       declarations [of]
> love & joy in friendship
>                                    & branches
> of green & holly were hung in the house
>                                    & what
> I miss now,            the sound of your voice
>                                your laughter
>
>                                          [love from Hilda
>                                           December 25, 1982]
>
>
> Note: A day or two ago, Lynda and I visited (once
> again) the Strand, over on Broadway and came home
> lugging books. In one of mine (*Ironwood* 20, found
> on one of the outdoor $1 shelves and purchased to
> replace my long-lost copy) was a twice-folded sheet
> of 8 1/2 x 11 paper upon which the poem above was
> typed, the bracketed portions written in in ink. At the
> top center of the page is a piece of scotch tape that
> looks like it may have been used to hang the poem up
> somewhere, since there's nothing at the bottom of the
> page to suggest it was used as a seal. At the bottom
> left of the inside cover of the magazine, written in ink,
> is "Christmas 1982" over "NYC," and in the right-
> hand bottom corner the name Judy Epstein.
>
> I don't know if this poem was ever published, but it
> might be one of a series of elegies Morley wrote for
> her husband Stefan Wolpe, who had died in 1972.
> Any information would be appreciated.
>
> 1/17/05
>
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ===============
> email: halvard@earthlink.net
> website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:02:56 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         George Bowering 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

On 16-Jan-05, at 3:40 PM, Alison Croggon wrote:

> Oatmeal makes an _excellent_ face mask.
>
> A
>
>

Yep. Smear some on your face and rob the nearest bank.

gb
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:13:33 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         George Bowering 
Subject:      Re: short poems need home
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

> {    Dear  friends,
> {
> {    If anyone knows of a journal that is currently seeking short
> poems, I have
> {    about 20 that need a home. These are 1-6 line poems that are
> worthy of any
> {    self-respecting journal that publishes edgier or less predictable
> work.
> {
> {    I'm not quite sure how to submit them.  I have tried sprinkling a
> few of
> {    them in with longer poems in a standard submission --- a sort of
> baby's
> {    breath in the bouquet --- but editors have grabbed the longer
> poems without
> {    paying attention to them.  I have tried sending them out as a
> group, but
> {    they have not been accepted.  I conclude that there is a bias
> against tiny
> {    poems.
> {
> {    Any suggestions welcome; please backchannel:  Aaron@belz.net
> {
> {    Thanks,
> {    Aaron
>
>

Yeah, Robert Creeley had the same problem, poor guy.

gb
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:23:08 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Stephen Vincent 
Subject:      Carter??
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Has anybody seen the movie, Carter - about the coach - and his famous
disciplinary measures - of the Richmond (California) High basketball team?
I am about to go - with a little trepidation. I was the one of three white
guys on the Richmond High "Oilers" team in 1956-57-58. All of us were,
relatively, much better behaved than Carter's players. The issues of race
and class were unspoken, but very much in play.  I think the team in Carter
is all black (?) which puts a spin on it - that is, having the issues
revolve around disciplining black students in an all black circumstance
keeps the focus off black, white and other ethnic relationships which would
have to include the related issues of urban racism.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:18:38 +1100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alison Croggon 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
In-Reply-To:  <6604085E-68BA-11D9-9F19-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Not such a bad idea.  It certainly conceals identity - gives the impression
that your face is rotting, with bits dropping off, like a zombie's.

A

On 18/1/05 6:02 AM, "George Bowering"  wrote:

> On 16-Jan-05, at 3:40 PM, Alison Croggon wrote:
>
>> Oatmeal makes an _excellent_ face mask.
>>
>> A
>>
>>
>
> Yep. Smear some on your face and rob the nearest bank.
>
> gb



Alison Croggon

Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
Editor, Masthead:  http://masthead.net.au
Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:27:54 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mark Weiss 
Subject:      Re: a little help? Oatmeal!
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Doesn't work in Scotland, tho.

At 04:18 PM 1/17/2005, you wrote:
>Not such a bad idea.  It certainly conceals identity - gives the impression
>that your face is rotting, with bits dropping off, like a zombie's.
>
>A
>
>On 18/1/05 6:02 AM, "George Bowering"  wrote:
>
> > On 16-Jan-05, at 3:40 PM, Alison Croggon wrote:
> >
> >> Oatmeal makes an _excellent_ face mask.
> >>
> >> A
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Yep. Smear some on your face and rob the nearest bank.
> >
> > gb
>
>
>
>Alison Croggon
>
>Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
>Editor, Masthead:  http://masthead.net.au
>Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:41:36 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         amy king 
Subject:      HOUSE/LIGHTS - The Wooster Group
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I saw this years ago in Soho when I first moved to New
York.  I absolutely loved it.  Now I'm very happy to
discover, they're re-doing it in Dumbo, Brooklyn, and
I will see it again, several more times, I hope.


If you're in NYC during February or March, you're in
luck!  House/Lights shows February 5 - 27, 2005 &
March 2 - April 10, 2005.


http://www.thewoostergroup.org/



The Wooster Group's HOUSE/LIGHTS, directed by
Elizabeth LeCompte, commingles Gertrude Stein's opera
libretto, Dr. Faustus Lights the Lights with Joseph
Mawra's 1960's B-film classic, "Olga's House of
Shame." HOUSE/LIGHTS toured throughout the world and
was last seen in New York at The Performing Garage in
1999. In his New York Times review, Ben Brantley wrote
"HOUSE/LIGHTS is a bedazzling theater piece from The
Wooster Group that turns disorientation into a primary
sensual pleasure even as it raises terrifying thoughts
about the deeply mixed blessings of technological
progress."



The OBIE and BESSIE award-winning production of
HOUSE/LIGHTS returns with the original cast, including
Wooster Group member Kate Valk as Faust and Suzzy
Roche of The Roches as The Devil. The Wooster Group
will present HOUSE/LIGHTS at St. Ann's Warehouse (38
Water Street) in the DUMBO neighborhood of Brooklyn.



Artists involved in HOUSE/LIGHTS include Geoff Abbas,
Philip Bussmann, John Collins, J. Reid Farrington, Roy
Faudree, Iver Findlay, Jim Findlay, Ari Fliakos, Clay
Hapaz, Elizabeth Jenyon, J.J. Johnson, Bozzy Karasu,
Elizabeth LeCompte, Margaret Mann, Gabe Maxon, Helen
Pickett, Suzzy Roche, Tanya Selvaratnam, Sheena See,
Natalie Thomas, Jennifer Tipton, Kate Valk, and Tara
Webb.



For reservations or information please call St. Ann's
Warehouse box-office at 718.254.8779. Tickets can also
be ordered online at www.ticketweb.com.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:29:20 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mark Weiss 
Subject:      Re: Poems by others:  Hilda Morley (?), "Xmas"
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

A lovely poem. I must have met Morley--I used to go to all of Wolpe's
concerts. Does anyone listen to his music anymore? He was probably the best
of the second-generation serialists.

Mark

At 09:07 AM 1/17/2005, you wrote:
>Xmas
>
>Down Fifth Avenue in a taxi,
>2 weeks before Xmas,
>                                     my heart is
>gone,     gone away,
>                                  far away
>                                                 There are
>stars, lights, illuminated
>frosting all over the fronts of
>buildings,
>                 everything is
>an offering
>                     (  for us,   to buy   )
>But even alone now,
>                                  a rising excitement
>possesses me,
>                          exhilaration,
>warmth   & I can remember when it was
>all celebration for us,
>                                  both of us Jewish
>but an excitement possessed us,
>                                                   those years
>of your health,
>                                years of our striding
>about the city together
>                                    choosing,
>thinking: a gift for this one or that one
>                                    & you spent hours
>inventing red & green scribbles
>to cover your cards with:
>                                         declarations [of]
>love & joy in friendship
>                                      & branches
>of green & holly were hung in the house
>                                      & what
>I miss now,            the sound of your voice
>                                  your laughter
>
>                                            [love from Hilda
>                                             December 25, 1982]
>
>
>Note: A day or two ago, Lynda and I visited (once
>again) the Strand, over on Broadway and came home
>lugging books. In one of mine (*Ironwood* 20, found
>on one of the outdoor $1 shelves and purchased to
>replace my long-lost copy) was a twice-folded sheet
>of 8 1/2 x 11 paper upon which the poem above was
>typed, the bracketed portions written in in ink. At the
>top center of the page is a piece of scotch tape that
>looks like it may have been used to hang the poem up
>somewhere, since there's nothing at the bottom of the
>page to suggest it was used as a seal. At the bottom
>left of the inside cover of the magazine, written in ink,
>is "Christmas 1982" over "NYC," and in the right-
>hand bottom corner the name Judy Epstein.
>
>I don't know if this poem was ever published, but it
>might be one of a series of elegies Morley wrote for
>her husband Stefan Wolpe, who had died in 1972.
>Any information would be appreciated.
>
>1/17/05
>
>Hal
>
>Halvard Johnson
>===============
>email: halvard@earthlink.net
>website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
>blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:51:27 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Joe Brennan 
Subject:      Bush Blames Voters For War In Iraq
Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 Click here: The Assassinated Press

Bush Blames Voters For War In Iraq:
Kleptocracy Declares Clear Mandate To Feed On Social Security:
Statute Of Limitations On Iraq 'Accountability moment' Has Passed, Faux
President Floats:
Commander In Chimp Makes Chumps Of Grunts; Graner Gets 10 Years; Bush
Declares "prison abuse was strictly the fault of a handful of junior enlisted
soldiers."
By JIM HANGEMHIGHER & MICHAELS A. FLASHER

Like WMD U.S. Lowers Expectations On Iraq Vote:
White House Spins "At least, there are more voters in Iraq than WMD!"
Concept Emphasized, Not Turnout or Results
By ROB M. RIGHT and YAM RANDEMHIGH



They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.

".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in
the
sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful
language
of power.  There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or
hypocritical,
whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks.  The dominating
impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed
good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured

forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter
house.
One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first
giving
free reign to this hubbub of voices...."
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:49:50 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      the rest of it
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

the rest of it


the watcher of skies is always there
soaring so high in the ice-cold air
we go into her cage and live in her lair
her beak is so strong, her feathers so fair
to see such a sight is indeed now quite rare
my fingers ungloved, my skin was quite bare
she knew i was safe and handled with care
my life and my love, we made quite a pair
we have taken our memories far to pare
so we leave nothing for our new-found heir
although i give her food, a hare
she'll swallow, and oft-thanks and with ne'er
a murmur to deer or bear
or thought to try a shirt of hair
or something charming else to wear
for even a wager or sometimes a dare
with her feathers red-tipped, and her dinner fare
delightful and lovely, and delicious e'er
she whispers and waits for another ware
that comes in the winters so cold and so sair
you'd find her preening without a tear
(though she missed the witch project of blair)
(though the trumpets blew and the horn did blare)
(though she'd ride the stallion and even the mare)
(though she'd weigh them all with a well-balanced tare)
(though they'd leave her now forever-mair)
(though they'd come back for the golden pear)
(though they found it strange and well-a-bit quair)
while we wait in the wings for our coming share.

http://www.asondheim.org/hawk2.mov

_
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:17:38 CST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         weave049 
Subject:      thanks and good oatmeal
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII

hello again,

I want to thank all of you that have taken the time to answer my hall and
bly (and oats / oates) question.  I will probably pop in again.  I
apologize for not responding to the list and the individual emails sooner
as I have limited email capacity. Your responses are very helpful to me and
much appreciated.  It's interesting to me to hear what folks feel and think
of this esp., from people who aren't in town here in the TC.

I like to add apple chunks and cinnamon and a little nutmeg to my oatmeal.
Chocolate works well, too.

best,
rebecca weaver
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:09:30 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Erica Kaufman 
Subject:      BELLADONNA THIS WEEK: Susan Howe, Corina Copp, Eileen Tabios
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

enjoy

BELLADONNA*

with

Susan Howe, Corina Copp, Eileen Tabios

Thursday, January 20, 7PM
Room 9204 (9th Floor), CUNY Graduate Center
365 5th Avenue at 34th Street
A $7-10 donation is suggested.

Susan Howe is the author of several books of poems and two volumes of
criticism. Her most recent poetry collections are The Midnight (2003),
Kidnapped (2002), The Europe of Trusts (2002), Bed Hangings (with artist
Susan Bee, 2001), Pierce-Arrow (1999), Frame Structures: Early Poems
1974-1979 (1996), The Nonconformist's Memorial (1993), The Europe of Trusts:
Selected Poems (1990), and Singularities (1990). Her books of criticism
include My Emily Dickinson (1985) and The Birth-Mark: Unsettling the
Wilderness in American Literary History (1993),the latter of which was named
an "International Book of the Year" by the Times Literary Supplement.

Corina Copp is the author of a chapbook, Sometimes Inspired by Marguerite
(Open 24 Hours Press, 2003), an e-book, Carpeted (www.fauxpress.com/e/copp),
and plays “The Night Room” and “The FACCOR Sessions.” Recent work has been
or is forthcoming in Pom2, Fence, The Germ, and Magazine Cypress. She is the
Program Assistant and the Monday Night Coordinator at the Poetry Project,
and lives in Brooklyn.

Eileen Tabios’ recent books are Reproductions of the Empty Flagpole and
Menage à Trois with the 21st Century. I Take Thee, English, For My Beloved
is forthcoming in 2005. Her awards include the Philippines’ National Book
Award for Poetry, the Potrero Nuevo Fund Prize, and the PEN/Oakland
Josephine Miles National Literary Award. Read her blog at
http://chatelaine-poet.blogspot.com.

Belladonna* is a feminist/innovative reading and publication series that
promotes the work of women writers who are adventurous, experimental,
politically involved, multi-form, multicultural, multi-gendered,
unpredictable, dangerous with language (to the death machinery). In its five
year history, Belladonna* has featured such writers as Leslie Scalapino,
Alice Notley, Erica Hunt, Fanny Howe, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Cecilia Vicuña,
Lisa Jarnot, Camille Roy, Nicole Brossard, Abigail Child, Norma Cole, Lynne
Tillman and Carla Harryman among many other experimental and hybrid women
writers. Beyond being a platform for women writers, the curators promote
work that is experimental in form, connects with other art forms, and is
socially/politically active in content. Alongside the readings, Belladonna*
supports its artists by publishing commemorative pamphlets of their work on
the night of the event. Please contact us (Erica Kaufman, Rachel Levitsky et
al) at belladonnaseries@yahoo.com to receive a catalog and be placed on our
list.

*deadly nightshade, a cardiac and respiratory stimulant, having purplish-red
flowers and black berries

Belladonna* readings happen monthly between September and June.

We are grateful for partial funding by Poets and Writers and CLMP

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:12:31 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Dan Machlin 
Subject:      FUTUREPOEM BOOK RELEASE 1/20 NYC
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed

Futurepoem books invites you to a book party to celebrate the=20
publication of:


THE EXTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE
by Michael Ives


Thursday, January 20, 2005
7:00 P.M., FREE

Teachers & Writers Collaborative
5 Union Square West, 7th Floor
(between 14th and 15th Streets)

with readings by Michael Ives, Ann Lauterbach, Edwin Torres and Dan=20
Machlin
& Wine and cheese reception.

Directions: 4,5,6,L,N,R to Union Square, F to 14th Street.

=93Michael Ives' cunningly quarried prose plinths are stippled with the=20=

comedy and cruelty of Marcel Duchamp=92s and Raymond Roussel=92s wildest=20=

inventions.=A0 Move over, machines c=E9libataires=97The External =
Combustion=20
Engine has arrived, and it's hummin'!
=97John Ashbery

"The motoric energy of Michael Ives' inspections is what first caught=20
me: not just the narrative energy but the urgency of breath and its=20
deeper, darker sources. All systems were being used to inspect=97to=20
investigate. He notices and connects. The brilliance of music is around=20=

these texts of his, driving rich prose discourse through the narrow=20
gate of song."
=97Robert Kelly

=93These narratives are intensely, wildly logical, sensual, humorous,=20
transgressive=97catapults into the particulars of an exquisite knowledge=20=

for which you can=92t know you are being prepared. The high-wire=20
pleasures and exhilarations of reading are happily reawakened by this=20
brilliant, surprising book.=94=A0=A0
=97Joan Retallack

The prose in Michael Ives' The External Combustion Engine is written to=20=

the dimensions of fable, with the compression of a well-crafted dream,=20=

fueled by fricative undulations of imagination and effect, enriched=20
with more than the standard degree of vividness in particularly=20
American linguistic superabundance which borders on the grotesque and=20
adores each moment of it. It is pleasure.
=97Heather Ramsdell

Michael Ives is a writer and musician living in the Hudson Valley. His=20=

work with the language/performance trio, F=92loom, was featured on=20
National Public Radio, on the CBC, and in the anthology of=20
international sound poetry, Homo Sonorus. His poetry and prose has=20
appeared in such magazines as Conjunctions, Denver Quarterly, Exquisite=20=

Corpse, New American Writing, and Sulfur. He teaches at Bard College.


Futurepoem is a NYC-based publishing collective that publishes=20
innovative poetry and prose.  It is supported in part by the New York=20
State Council from the Arts Literature Program, The Fund for Poetry,=20
The New York Community Trust, subscribers and individual donors.=20
Donations are tax-deductible through our non-profit sponsor Fractured=20
Atlas Productions, Inc.  Futurepoem books can be ordered from SPD=20
books, www.spdbooks.org.  For more information, go to=20
http://www.futurepoem.com.

=93Futurepoem books is exemplary in structure and selection, a new home=20=

for poetry that renews the art by finding its beating center.=94
=97Charles Bernstein=
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:38:28 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: re
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

a flugent tone


a flugent tone denoted
a possible    aging
inprog a sing  u lar lifetime
a way
some play this way toot back-
alined
to hook 'n smile
the way land & sea co-mingle

here ya go intolerance

so much the level    rising
the mouth  an open gesture

this is the way of holes & learned
behavior
on mosking  only thing can be said &
divided:
                 in dividing the individual up
                 into individual pieces
                 more than one duality
                 is assumed.

2. cencontric : to con one into
                         trick one into  the this 'n that
         as hit on something then completely dry the boat
                  agrift in the powerless anti-body

this is no more the maker's fault
than the minus temperature
my perspired globe has been experiencing

come,
neuter the provine
disemvowel the sentence
you lifer
the warm soup is wearing off
the coat-check window
is black cloth & closed

behind me is behind you
behind you is behind me
behind us is behind us
NOW.


                                                 steve dalachinsky  nyc
1/17/05 @ the bluenote
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 06:25:16 -0500
Reply-To:     richard.j.newman@verizon.net
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Jeffrey Newman 
Subject:      Re: A neglected poets
In-Reply-To:  <590JaPaoU3152S09.1105834486@cmsweb09.cms.usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thank you, Jon, for these. They are wonderful and informative and they make
me want to write some just like them. I have met Jyotti Datta a couple of
times. It's nice to see his name here.

Cheers!

Rich Newman

-----Original Message-----
From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On
Behalf Of Jon Corelis
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 7:15 PM
To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: A neglected poet: Benoy Majumdar

Benoy Majumdar, an Indian poet who writes in Bengali, was born in 1934 and
trained as an engineer and mathematician.   His poetry is characterized even
in translation by an immediately accessible appeal underlain by a
considerable
literary sophistication which.  Only a handful of his poems have been
published in English translation, primarily translated by Jyotirmoy Datta,
himself a distinguished poet.  These two lovely lyrics indicate Majumdar's
mood and technique.

If you never come again, never blow through these steaming regions
like cooling drifts of the upper air, even that absence is an encounter.
Your absense is as of the blue rose
from the kingdom of flowers.  Who knows, some day
you may yet appear.  Maybe you have, only you are too close.
Can I smell my own hair?
Marvellous sights have been seen.
A full moon was to have risen last night --
only a quivering sickle appeared!
It was an eclipse.

                           -- translated by Jyotirmoy Datta

What is needed is a sudden turn
leaving the swift hand that plucks butterflies out of the air
gaping at a loss.
The others exist pale and ghostly as stars
brought to brief life by a total eclipse of the sun.
But I cannot change my course now; can the leopard
unspin its leap in midair?
Moreover, they may still be wrong.  She can yet appear.
Cream rises only if one lets boinling milk stand and cool.

                           -- translated by Jyotirmoy Datta

One of Majumdar's translators has said that his poetry "combines sensuality
with intellectual complexity and projects a sense of aesthetic refinement."
A
fair enough assessment, but I find myself groping to explain their deeper
appeal. Part of it is that I perceive in these pieces some traits which I
value greatly in poetry.  They are intensely and directly emotional without
being sentimental, thus forming a welcome contrast to so much contemporary
poetry which seems to eschew the direct expression of emotion out of a
terror
of falling into sentimentality.  They possess an undisguised songfulness
which
I assume the translator has brought over from the original; again, this
seems
to me like a fresh breeze compared to the pedestrian tone of so much current
poetry.  They have a quality of surprise in the language, the poet's way of
speaking at right angles to the ordinary and thus making you say "I never
knew you could do that with words."   I think this quality is apparent in
the selections which I've just read; here are a couple more passages from
other of his poems where it is particularly striking:

The blue stone on my ring shimmers with unquenchable thirst.
I fear the day of my death will be one like this.

                      -- translated by Jyotirmoy Datta

Because in some distant age, you had an assassin
for enemy, you live like a rose encircled
by thorns.  And I, like a letter gone astray,
have come to the wrong address.

                       -- translated by Ron D.  K.  Banerjee


A familiar mastery of tradition is one  mark of an excellent poet.  I can't
speak with authority on the traditions of Bengali poetry: my only
familiarity
with it comes the few English translations I have read.  But even from that
limited experience it seems pretty clear what some of the major qualities of

both traditional and modern Bengali lyrics are: the use of exuberant images
from nature to express personal emotion, with the images often having a
lushness which contrasts poignantly with the sadness of the feelings they
are
used to express; a tone of seemingly  spontaneous songfulness used as a
vehicle for intellectually complicated ideas;  allusions to the love-stories
of the gods to illuminate the poet's own situation; and motifs of erotic
separation and longing which often are used as symbols for spiritual
deprivation.  Benoy Majumdar's poetry seems to renew these traditional
characteristics by  recasting them into a modernistic, almost surrealist
poetic idiom

I haven't paid much attention so far to the claimed intellectual complexity
of Benoy Majumdar's work. Here is one poem which I think makes explicit some
of the paradoxes of the human condition  implicit in the other pieces I've
quoted:  that what we want most desperately is so deeply within us that we
cannot find it, that as soon as we apprehend what we desire, it is gone,
that
being born into reality is being expelled from the reality of forever into
the
delusion of now:

The pain remained with me a long time.
Finally the ancient root was cut --
from immersion I emerged blinking into light.
I am restored to health now though the season is gray.
Surgery everywhere; this tea table was once the flesh of a tree.

I have given up strewing grain on the ground
to have the birds join me at lunch.
Only when the baby is cut adrift
does it have its free hunger and thirst;
like taking off a blindfold to be confronted with
a curtain, being born
into this vast uterus, lined with a sky porous with stars.

                        -- translated by Jyotirmoy Datta


================

Bibliography:

Banerjee, Ron D. K.  trans. and ed.  Poetry From Bengal:  The Delta Rising :
An anthology of Modern Bengali poetry.  London and Boston, Forest
Books/Unesco, 1989.  Includes "8th March 1960"  and "16th June 1961" by
Binay
Mazumdar, pp. 128-129.

Dharwadker, Vinay, and Ramanujan, A.  K.  eds.  The Oxford Anthology of
Modern
Indian Poetry.  Dehli, Oxford University Press, 1994.  Includes "Time Wins"
by
Benoy Majumdar, tr.  Jyotirmoy Datta p.  72, and a brief biographical note
on
Binoy Majumdar p.  235.

Majumdar, Benoy.  Seven Poems by Benoy Mojumdar, tr. Jyotirmoy Datta. Hudson
Review v. 21 n. 4 (Winter 1968-1969), pp. 648-650.

Majumdar, Benoy.  "Had She Stopped to Look Back', tr. Jyotirmoy Datta.
Malahat
Review, n. 13-16 p. 110.

Majumdar, Benoy.  "Poem Number One" tr. Arup Bose and "Poem Number Two," tr.

Amitabha Dasgupta.  In Contemporary Bengali Literature and Poetry, ed. Ghose
Sukumar. Calcutta, Academic Publisher, n.d. p. 127.


=====================================
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org

    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=====================================


____________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 06:40:33 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

long nite
short poem


dwn...drn....
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:28:11 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Derek White 
Subject:      Re: short poems need home
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Try Alba
http://www.ravennapress.com/alba/


------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:51:08 -0600
From:    Aaron Belz 
Subject: short poems need home

Dear  friends,

If anyone knows of a journal that is currently seeking short poems, I have
about 20 that need a home. These are 1-6 line poems that are worthy of any
self-respecting journal that publishes edgier or less predictable work.

I'm not quite sure how to submit them.  I have tried sprinkling a few of
them in with longer poems in a standard submission --- a sort of baby's
breath in the bouquet --- but editors have grabbed the longer poems without
paying attention to them.  I have tried sending them out as a group, but
they have not been accepted.  I conclude that there is a bias against tiny
poems.

Any suggestions welcome; please backchannel:  Aaron@belz.net

Thanks,
Aaron
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:26:56 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      Re: michael rothenberg
Comments: To: fish drum Inc 
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

well my dears i haven't rec'd any offers for the shawl to benefit m
rothenberg so i'll offer it to my dept for tsunami reconstruction
work. a sri lankan colleague's wife is doing very immediate relief
work.
--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:49:48 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Dan Waber 
Subject:      vispo oh! >>oh<< oh.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

If you go here:

http://nonfinito.de/oh/

you'll find a piece called:  >>oh<<

an interactive audio-visual poem

touch the drops
all
and the blue

A short poem by Jennifer Hill-Kaucher became a visual poem by Dan
Waber which then became an interactive audio-visual poem (in Flash) by
Reiner Strasser.

We hope you enjoy,
Dan
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:02:54 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         ryan murphy 
Subject:      Ron Padgett on Pierre Reverdy at Poets House
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

For Immediate Release

Contact: Stephen Motika

Program Coordinator

212-431-7920, ext. 12



Poets House presents

Ron Padgett on Pierre Reverdy

Thursday, January 20, 7pm



New York, January 2005—Poets House, a nonprofit literary center devoted to

poetry, presents poet Ron Padgett speaking on the poetry of Pierre Reverdy

(1889-1960), a prolific poet and central figure of France’s avant-garde

artistic and literary circles from the 1910s to the early 1920s. The event

will be held on Thursday, January 20, at 7pm, at Poets House, 72 Spring

Street, 2nd Floor, between Broadway and Lafayette. Admission is $7 or free

for members.

Ron Padgett is the author of the poetry volumes You Never Know (2002), Poems

I Guess I Wrote (2001), New & Selected Poems (1995), The Big Something

(1990), Triangles in the Afternoon (1979), Great Balls of Fire (1969), and

other collections. His prose books include two memoirs, Joe: A Memoir of Joe

Brainard (2004) and Oklahoma Tough: My Father, King of the Bootleggers

(2003), as well as a volume of selected prose entitled Blood Work (1993),

and translations of Blaise Cendrars' Complete Poems (1992), Pierre Cabanne's

Dialogues with Marcel Duchamp (1971), and Guillaume Apollinaire's The Poet

Assassinated (1968), among others. For his translations Padgett has received

grants and awards from the National Endowment for the Arts, the New York

State Council on the Arts, and Columbia University's Translation Center. He

was the editor-in-chief of World Poets, a three-volume reference book

(2000).

Pierre Reverdy (1889-1960), a Cubist poet alongside Apollinaire and Max

Jacob, inspired the Surrealist movement and its leaders. He moved to Paris

in 1910 and founded the journal Nord-Sud (North-South) in 1917, and

published Apollinaire, Jacob, Aragon, Breton, Soupault, and Tzara in its

pages. In 1926 he left Paris and spent the rest of his life in Solesmes,

France. Reverdy wrote literary reviews in addition to his many poems, which

are available in English in Pierre Reverdy: Selected Poems (1991).

#

Poets House is a 45,000-volume library and independent literary center

devoted exclusively to poetry. Its 2004-2005 Fall/Winter season features a

wide range of talks, panels, Master Classes, and public conversations for

readers, writers, and lovers of poetry. For more information about upcoming

events, visit our website at http://www.poetshouse.org or call

212-431-7920. The Poets House Reading Room is free and open to the public:

Tuesday-Friday, 11am-7pm; Saturday, 11am-4pm.






---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:42:35 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         UbuWeb 
Subject:      __ U B U W E B __  Recent Additions   ::   Winter 2005
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

__ U B U W E B __
http://ubu.com


--------------------------------------
Recent Additions   ::   Winter 2005
--------------------------------------



--- RECENT FEATURES ---


The Great Bear Pamphlets

UbuWeb is pleased to host the entire run of the legendary chapbooks produced by Something
Else? Press from 1965-1967. Long out-of-print and rarely seen, UbuWeb has reformatted all
twenty titles into new PDF editions. Featuring titles by: Allan Kaprow, Bengt af
Klintberg, David Antin, George Brecht, Philip Corner, Robert Filliou, Al Hansen, Dick
Higgins, Alison Knowles, Jackson Mac Low, Various Manifestos, Claes Oldenburg, Dieter
Roth, Jerome Rothenberg, Luigi Russolo, Wolf Vostell, Emmett Williams, The Zaj Group,
John Cage and others.


Gregory Whitehead: A 20 Year Survey

A comprehensive twenty-year survey of MP3s, comprised of 52 tracks, varying in length
from a few minutes to over an hour. Several of the pieces are heard here for the first
time; others were commissioned by the BBC, NPR and New American Radio; many are live
air-checks and full-length radio-plays. Also included in this survey are several pieces
of writing by Whitehad on the subject radio, ranging from interviews to manifestoes.


The Tape-beatles, Public Works, PhonoStatic Cassettes

UbuWeb announces the launch of the Public Works archive, consisting of digitial transfers
of dozens of cassettes, LPs, and CDs into MP3s. The Tape-beatles are a collaboration of
varying membership that make music and audio art recordings, "expanded cinema"
performances, videos, printed publications, and works in other media. They work under the
aegis of Public Works Productions. PhotoStatic was a magazine, a periodical series of
printed works, that focused on xerography (photocopy) as a creative medium. Founded in
1983, the title continued in some form until as late as 1998. A companion publication on
audio cassette was dubbed PhonoStatic, with the inaugural issue appearing in 1984. In
all, ten cassette issues were released at roughly six-month intervals, culminating with
the "Audio Collage" cassette in 1989. The complete PhonoStatic cassette archive is
available on UbuWeb.


The Dial-A-Poem Poets

The latest additions to UbuWeb's collection of legendary downtown New York LPs produced
in the 70s and 80s by John Giorno include: You're The Guy I Want To Share My Money With,
William S. Burroughs / John Giorno, A Diamond Hidden in the Mouth of a Corpse, and John
Giorno & Anne Waldman. Artists on these discs include: Laurie Anderson, John Giorno,
William S. Burroughs, Anne Waldman, Hüsker Dü, Cabaret Voltaire, David Johansen,
Diamanda Galas, Jessica Hagedorn, David van Tieghem, Coil, Michael Gira, and Sonic Youth.
(MP3)


Live To Air: Artist's Sound Works (1982)

"Live to Air" comprises an international compilation of artists' sound works. Forty-five
artists were invited to make a work for the context of Audio Arts Magazine with an
approximate duration of five minutes. Originally produced on three Dolby cassettes, this
out-of-print compilation includes artists such as Dan Graham, Vito Acconci, Barbara Ess,
Art & Language, Lawrence Weiner, Jack Goldstein, Dieter Roth, Tom Marioni, Les Levine and
Marina Abramovic and many others. Includes scans of original liner notes and artwork.


Yves Klein "Selected Writings, 1928-1962"

Originally published by the Tate Gallery in 1974, this collection of aphorisms, stories
and photographs documents the trajectory of a lifetime's worth of thought from the great
French conceptual artist. From the introduction: "Klein's work lends itself very well to
this mode of presentation. Although immensely varied in its means it seems to divide into
sections naturally and with unusual clarity as if it were the chapters of a book, each
chapter pressing home one particular point. This characteristic does not, of course, rob
Klein's art of subtlety, mystery or ambiguity-quite the reverse; it is perhaps the result
of his trenchant, often theatrical or ritualistic modes of expression. Certain of his
activities have, therefore, a quality which makes them at once memorable, mythical and
self-defining. At the same time they are all concerned with a single constellation of
ideas."


Andreas Ammer: Selection of Hörspiele, 1993-1999.

Originally produced for German radio (Westdeutscher Rundfunk, Bayerischer Rundfunk,
WDR3). Includes two collaborations with FM Einheit: Radio Inferno (1993) and Crashing
Aeorplanes and three collaborations with Console: Heimat & Technik Das Heidegger-Bootleg
(2000) The Official Olympic Bootleg (2000) and Bugs & Beats & Beasts (1999).


Gertrude Stein's "Geography and Plays"

In an ongoing celebration of the roughly 100th anniversary of Gertrude Stein's Geography
and Plays, softpalate (www.softpalate.org) has matched various sound artists (audio
artists, performance artists, soundtext artists, composers, radio producers, soundpoets,
DJ's, re-mix artists, turntablists, etc.) with texts from Geography and Plays. Included
here are the first five plays as realized by Warren Burt, John Wanzel, Students from
Bella Vista Elementary School and David Braden, and Fadladder. (MP3)

Artsounds

Rare out-of-print double LP from 1985 of artists' recordings. Includes tracks by Larry
Rivers, Marcel Duchamp, Connie Beckley, Cotten/Prince, Minneko Grimmer, Philemona
Williamson, Jeff Gordon, Tony McAulay, Jonathan Borofsky, Les Levine, Burton Van Deusen,
Tom Wesslemann, Marcy Brafman, Philip Johnson, John Burgee, Italo Scanga, Thomas
Lanigan-Schmidt, Bob Gruen, Yura Adams, and Jennifer Bartlett. Includes extensive liner
notes. (MP3)


Stephen Vitiello

"Collaborations and Unreleased MP3s" Stephen Vitiello is a composer of electronic music
and media artist. He works in mediums ranging between installation, internet, video,
film, dance and music for audio CD. Presented here are rare pieces and collaborations
with Pauline Oliveros, Joe McPhee, Tony Conrad, Yasunao Tone and Scanner.


People Like Us "Abridged Too Far" (2004)

For the first time, UK-based People Like Us (Vicki Bennett) is releasing a new album
exclusively online here on UbuWeb. "Abridged Too Far" is a collection of audio work first
conceived through experimentation through or on radio. On this new collection, People
Like Us continues its pastiche of impressions of popular music from Europe and America
from the 1920s thru to 1990s. Vicki Bennett's work is an examination of the affect of
hearing well known tunes and lyrics in fragments, then putting those elements to play--
resonating, intermingling and recombining with the listeners own associations and shards
of memories. Full-color downloadable artwork and liner notes are available.


The 365 Days Project

UbuWeb is pleased to announce the re-launch and permanent home of curator Otis F. Odder's
365 Days Project. This legendary project, in which an MP3 a day -- of mostly outsider,
novelty, and oddball recordings -- was made available for the public to download over the
course of 2003. Briefly taken offline at the end of the project, it is now presented here
in its entirety, complete with images and vast commentary on each selection. The 365 Days
Project is part of UbuWeb's redesigned, newly-named and much expanded Outsiders section.


Stan Brakhage

"The Brakhage Lectures" (1972) Unavailable writings by filmmaker Stan Brakhage
(1933-2003) who gave these lectures as a credit course at the School of the Art Institute
of Chicago during the fall and early winter of 1970-71. Extended essays on George
Méliès, David Wark Griffith, Carl Theodore Dreyer, and Sergei Eisenstein. The original
program included screenings of forty-three films by Méliés, Griffith, Dreyer,
Eisenstein, Cocteau and Edwin Porter. Includes an introduction by Robert Creeley.




--- OTHER RECENT ADDITIONS ---

New Additions

Morton Feldman "Selections from the Feldman Archive at SUNY-Buffalo" (MP3)

Joseph Beuys "Sonne statt Reagan / Krafte sammeln," 45 rpm, 7" 1982 (MP3)

Ara Shirinyan "2005 Resolution: I Promise to Write Better Poetry" [PDF]

Jon Rutzmoser "Hyperbraille" (MP3)

The Uproar Tapes (1985): Karen Finley, Eric Bogosian, David Cale, Ann Magnuson, Richard
Price, Ethyl Eichelberger (MP3)

Clairaudient Autopoesis, "Iteration 14" (2004)

William S. Burroughs "The Cut-Up Methond of Brion Gysin"

Michel de Certeau "The Practice of Everyday Life"

Asger Jorn "Pataphysics: A Religion in the Making"

Raymond Queneau "Exercices de style"

Erik Satie "A Day in the Life of a Musician"

Abbie Hoffman "Wake Up America!" 1969 (MP3)

Drew Gardner "Poems and music" 2003 (MP3)

Xavier Gautier "Media works, 2000-2003" (MP3)

Louis-Ferdinand Celine "Songs and Readings" 1950s (MP3)

Ed Dorn Reads from "The North Atlantic Turbine" (1967), MP3

Seth Price Dispersion (2001)

Ensemble "Ordinature Ursonate" (2004)

Max Neuhaus "Radio Net" (1977) (MP3)

Jane Philbrick "Audio 1998 - 200"4 (MP3)

Cornelius Cardew "BBC Documentary & Memorial Concert" (1985) (MP3)

Kenneth Rexroth "On American Indian Songs"

Jerome Rothenberg on Slim Gaillard

Translations from the Yaqui 15 Flower World Variations

Shamanistic Songs of Roman Estrada

Sam Truitt "Transverse"

Tod Dockstader "Interview" 1963 (MP3)

Kuemmerling Trio (Dieter Roth, Emmett Williams, Hansjorg Mayer) 1979 (MP3)

Tomomi Adachi "Asst'd Sound Poems" (MP3)

Robert Whitman "4 Cinema Pieces, 1968" (MP3)

Caroline Bergvall "Recent Soundworks" (MP3)

Nicolas Slonimsky "History Making Premieres" (MP3) (1930s)

Perfo2 Catalogus Performance Festival (MP3) (1984)

Raphael Rubinstein "A Brief History of Appropriative Writing"

Neil Powell "Concrete Poetry and Conceptual Art"



__ U B U W E B __
http://ubu.com



Apologies for cross-postings. Please forward.




__________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:50:25 +0100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Kevin Magee 
Subject:      Berlin Discussion Hall
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

or is
it good
or bad
for art
or life

a desire that art
        intervene
        in places
or
"extremely useless, fragile
        and non-productive"

the problem of art intervening
in the real is that the real
doesn't exist--consensus--a non
controversial framing of what
is real or what

art and politics vanish together

politics itself is always
a fictional dimension, new
forms of visibility of
the common, we have to restate

signs & space
all those connections that frame
what can be seen
what can be said
now is double movement          us
on one side and politics        the
                                other
art for its part
practices become sedimented
agonistic public spaces

de-
sediment
existing
con-
sensus, how
can passion be mobilized

Anthony Giddens - the
adversarial model has
been overcome? No!
("war of position")
terrain: rightwing
         populist
         parties

1.
"all those express moralist
attitudes, rightwing populism
denunciation, condemnation
we no longer think in terms
of right and left but right
and wrong, it makes people
feel virtuous, this is not
                politics
and it won't contribute
it reinforces rightwing
populism

2.
the practice of transgression
is a mistake. There is nothing
that can't be recuperated.

Transgression and the posture
of moral denunciation--as if
the negative moment has enough.

Negative transformation
will not produce a new subjectivity
--deterministic frameworks"

claimed
through categories
as they once used to be

where do I speak from
whatever it is I want
                to say

distraction
and modalities of attention
they seem to be standing
                to the Left
        any surprises either
        or lack of these

real hardcore utopian deal
I don't know the English for
"rest" (laughter) "left over"

is there any structural
affinity between you said
artistic work can consist is
this also a figure of interruption

what do I mean by polis
a certain configuration
of the fields, the places
there it is / there is
a conceptual framing
politics in a frame
shaped by the police

polis
what art can make
questioning this
fiction practice
        only

Barcelona turned out
to be back and forth


--

Derived from Klartext!
speakers at Volksbuhne
am Rosa-Luzemburg-Platz
16 January
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:59:09 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Juliana Mary Spahr 
Subject:      act art--suzanne lacy and unique holland @ mills college 1/27
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Content-disposition: inline

ACT ART!

The U=2ES=2E and its allies have killed 17=2C000 Iraqi civilians since Ja=
nuary
2003=2E Since 1990=2C the U=2ES=2E prison population=2C already the world=
=27s
largest=2C has nearly doubled and now exceeds 2 million=2E California has=

built 23 prisons and just one university since 1980=2E Last year=2C feder=
al
investigators found a toxic rocket fuel chemical in almost all of more
than 200 samples of lettuce and milk collected nationwide=2E 23=25 of
Wal-Mart Supercenter customers live on incomes of less than =2425=2C000 a=

year=2E WHAT NOW=3F

Start the conversation=2E A series of performances=2C readings and dialog=
ues
with artist-activists=2E All events FREE on the Mills Campus=2E

KICK OFF EVENT=3A
CODE 33 Revisited and CITY OF DREAMS=2C a slide show by Oaklandish

Thursday=2C January 27
7=3A00-8=3A30 p=2Em=2E
=40 the Mills College Art Museum

OUTSIDE THE MUSEUM=3A Local collective Oaklandish
(http=3A//www=2Eoaklandish=2Ecom/) presents digital slide projections fro=
m
City of Dreams=2C an Oakland retrospective with 130 images celebrating
folk personalities from the arts and sciences=2C activists for civil
liberty=2C politicians and athletes=2E

INSIDE THE MUSEUM=3A Artists Suzanne Lacy and Unique Holland revisit CODE=

33=2C (http=3A//www=2Esuzannelacy=2Ecom/1990soakland=5Fcode33=5Fpolicy=2E=
htm) a
three-year project intended to reduce police hostility toward youth and
increase youth participation in their communities=2E

Named after the police radio code for =93emergency=2C clear the radio
waves=2C=94 CODE 33 utilized multiple strategies=2C including art worksho=
ps
for 350 Oakland youth=2C presentations at neighborhood Crime Prevention
Councils=2C a mass media campaign and a youth-adult artist team who
designed and produced the CODE 33 performance=2E See footage from the
performance and hear how the project continues to impact the artists=2C
youth=2C teachers=2C administrators and police officers who made it happe=
n=2E

Suzanne and Unique will be joined in dialogue by a panel of CODE 33
participants=2C including=3A

Sheila Jordan (Alameda County Superintendent of Schools)
Chris Johnson (Artist)
Jackie Johnson (Oakland Youth)
Arnold Perkins (Alameda County Dept of Health Director)
Sara Chavez (Former Youth)
Hugh Kidd (Oakland Police Officer)
Jidan Koon (Youth Advocate)


FOR MORE INFO=3A
http=3A//activatingthelocal=2Esquarespace=2Ecom/
or call 510-430-3130

Coming up in the ACT ART series =2E =2E =2E

FEBRUARY 24=2C Mills Hall Living Room=2C 7=3A00-8=3A30
Tijuana poet and writer Heriberto Y=E8pez

MARCH 17=2C Mills Hall Living Room=2C 7=3A00-8=3A30
Gaye Chan and Nandita Sharma=2C Historic Waikiki

APRIL 14=2C Lisser Theater=2C Mills College=2C 7=3A00-8=3A30
The Yes Men

ACT ART is funded in part by the James Irvine Foundation=2C the
Contemporary Writers Series=2C Poets =26 Writers=2C Inc=2E through a gran=
t it
has received from the Hearst Foundation=2C and =27A =27A Arts=2E
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:32:28 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      Not a joke.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Not a joke.

How many octopi does it take to change a light-bulb?

One. This is based on the animal's intelligence, which rivals own own.

One quarter. This is based on the manual dexterity of the animal's arms,
which is greater than our own.

_
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:38:03 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Ram Devineni 
Subject:      Rattapallax delegation at World Social Forum: Breytenbach, Handal,
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Dear Friends:

South African activist and writer Breyten Breytenbach
is part of the international delegation of poets and
writers going to the World Social Forum (WSF) to fight
for social justice and progressive change. The group
will be working with Oxfam's Control Arms campaign and
participating in several readings. In addition,
Rattapallax magazine will be filming indigenous people
at the WSF reading and performing their poetry for an
online library and future film on endangered
languages. The World Social Forum is a major assembly
of progressive organizations and will be held in Porto
Alegre, Brasil from 26 to 31, January 2005. The trip
is organized by Rattapallax and Prof. Lorenz.

A committed opponent of apartheid, Breyten Breytenbach
was a political prisoner serving two terms of solitary
confinement in South African prisons. He is the author
of "The True Confessions of an Albino Terrorist" and
other collections. Other participants include
Palestine poet Nathalie Handal, editor of the
anthology, "The Poetry of Arab Women" (PEN Oakland
award winner); and Rattapallax editor Ram Devineni.
They will be joined by Brasilian poets Fabrício
Carpinejar, author of "Cinco Marias" and "Biografia de
uma árvore"; Johnny Lorenz, Professor of English at
Montclair State University and a Fulbright Scholar;
Rodrigo Garcia Lopes, editor of "Coyote" magazine;
Flávia Rocha, co-founder of Acedemia Internacional de
Cinema in Curitiba and an editor at Rattapallax; and
Marlon de Almeida.

Oxfam, Amnesty International, and IANS' Control Arms
campaign educates the public and lobbies governments
to take action against the illicit trade of small
arms, which fuel violent conflict, state repression,
crime, and domestic abuse. More info at
http://www.rattapallax.com/wsf.htm

Cheers
Ram Devineni
Rattapallax



=====
Please send future emails to
devineni@rattapallax.com for press
devineni@dialoguepoetry.org for UN program



__________________________________
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The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:45:41 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Nathaniel Siegel 
Subject:      poets for Peace reading jan 20th nyc
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear All poets, writers, artists, and friends:

Hi ! On Thursday January 20th at 12Noon in New York City, poets for Peace,
will be assembling and reading poems on the steps of the New York Public Library.
This is an OPEN READING and ALL are welcome !
Location: The Main Branch of the N.Y.Public Library, 42nd Street and 5th
Avenue, on the steps near the southmost lion. Look for the "poets for Peace"
banner !
We will read poems on topical themes like the culture of peace, non-violence,
tolerance, etc. This event will happen rain, snow, or shine ! (from 12noon to
1pm or until frostbite sets in).
Please RSVP to this email or simply show up !
Thank you in advance for your continued support and participation !

Nathaniel A. Siegel

poets for Peace
Poets Against the War
POETRY IS NEWS

"My optimism rests on my belief in the infinite possibilities of the
individual to develop nonviolence. ...in a gentle way you can shake the world."
Mohandas K. Ghandi

Please forward this email as appropriate, thank you.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:58:39 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "J. Scappettone" 
Subject:      act art--suzanne lacy and unique holland @ mills 1/27
In-Reply-To:  <41ED68CB.7040706@mills.edu>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Everyone in the Bay Area--attend these!  jen

------ Forwarded Message
From: juliana spahr 
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:51:39 -0800
To: "J. Scappettone" 
Subject: act art--suzanne lacy and unique holland @ mills 1/27


ACT ART!

The U.S. and its allies have killed 17,000 Iraqi civilians since January
2003. Since 1990, the U.S. prison population, already the world's
largest, has nearly doubled and now exceeds 2 million. California has
built 23 prisons and just one university since 1980. Last year, federal
investigators found a toxic rocket fuel chemical in almost all of more
than 200 samples of lettuce and milk collected nationwide. 23% of
Wal-Mart Supercenter customers live on incomes of less than $25,000 a
year. WHAT NOW?

Start the conversation. A series of performances, readings and dialogues
with artist-activists. All events FREE on the Mills Campus.

KICK OFF EVENT:
CODE 33 Revisited and CITY OF DREAMS, a slide show by Oaklandish

Thursday, January 27
7:00-8:30 p.m.
@ the Mills College Art Museum

OUTSIDE THE MUSEUM: Local collective Oaklandish
(http://www.oaklandish.com/) presents digital slide projections from
City of Dreams, an Oakland retrospective with 130 images celebrating
folk personalities from the arts and sciences, activists for civil
liberty, politicians and athletes.

INSIDE THE MUSEUM: Artists Suzanne Lacy and Unique Holland revisit CODE
33, (http://www.suzannelacy.com/1990soakland_code33_policy.htm) a
three-year project intended to reduce police hostility toward youth and
increase youth participation in their communities.

Named after the police radio code for =B3emergency, clear the radio
waves,=B2 CODE 33 utilized multiple strategies, including art workshops
for 350 Oakland youth, presentations at neighborhood Crime Prevention
Councils, a mass media campaign and a youth-adult artist team who
designed and produced the CODE 33 performance. See footage from the
performance and hear how the project continues to impact the artists,
youth, teachers, administrators and police officers who made it happen.

Suzanne and Unique will be joined in dialogue by a panel of CODE 33
participants, including:

Sheila Jordan (Alameda County Superintendent of Schools)
Chris Johnson (Artist)
Jackie Johnson (Oakland Youth)
Arnold Perkins (Alameda County Dept of Health Director)
Sara Chavez (Former Youth)
Hugh Kidd (Oakland Police Officer)
Jidan Koon (Youth Advocate)


FOR MORE INFO:
http://activatingthelocal.squarespace.com/
or call 510-430-3130

Coming up in the ACT ART series . . .

FEBRUARY 24, Mills Hall Living Room, 7:00-8:30
Tijuana poet and writer Heriberto Y=E8pez

MARCH 17, Mills Hall Living Room, 7:00-8:30
Gaye Chan and Nandita Sharma, Historic Waikiki

APRIL 14, Lisser Theater, Mills College, 7:00-8:30
The Yes Men

ACT ART is funded in part by the James Irvine Foundation, the
Contemporary Writers Series, Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it
has received from the Hearst Foundation, and 'A 'A Arts.


------ End of Forwarded Message
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:26:11 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "Hoerman, Michael A" 
Subject:      blog topics: bly's deep image, boston's bennett dance co.,
              bashin g BAP
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Recent topics at my blog:

-Bashing BAP
-Boston's contemporary Bennett Dance Company
-Robert Bly's Deep Image

http://pornfeld.blogspot.com

Michael Hoerman
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:41:51 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         George Bowering 
Subject:      Re: Not a joke.
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

On 18-Jan-05, at 12:32 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote:

> Not a joke.
>
> How many octopi does it take to change a light-bulb?
>
> One. This is based on the animal's intelligence, which rivals own own.
>
> One quarter. This is based on the manual dexterity of the animal's
> arms,
> which is greater than our own.
>
> _
>
>

But the plural is octopuses.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:52:53 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      8 and either
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

so george bowering although you won't read this:

for example

Phylum: Mollusca
Class: Cephalopoda(head-foot)



Because of the many movies in which cephalopods, especially octopi and
squids, attack people, boats, etc., there is a misconception that they are
aggressive and dumb creatures. In fact, there are only two species of
octopi that are aggressive (they are located in Austrailia), and they are
highly intelligent. They are probably the most intelligent of all the
invertebrates.

There are four types of cephalopods:

1) Octopi--they have eight symmetric arms (tenticles) which are used for
their protection and for obtaining food. They have an interesting mating
ritual: The males and females do not mate with any other partners besides
the chosen one. Shortly after the female has her children, she dies, but
the male stays with her--he does not mate again. This example is one of
the only monogamous relationship that exists among animals. The octopus
also has the most advanced sensory systems of any other invertebrate.

Sites

    1. About Octopi ... - facts about the octopus from the Mote Marine
Laboratory.

Octopi: Size Comparison

There are three octopus trophies in the game. In order of size, starting
with the smallest, they are:

     * Ora
     * Deep-Chasm Matriarch
     * Sinovia

    The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth
Edition.  2000.

octopi

SYLLABICATION:  octopi
PRONUNCIATION:    kt-p
NOUN:   A plural of octopus.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:20:04 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      Re: vispo oh! >>oh<< oh.
In-Reply-To:  <864qhewxcz.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Dan,

A fine moment in the evolution of rain drops, visual poetry, and ohness.

ja

> If you go here:
>
> http://nonfinito.de/oh/
>
> you'll find a piece called:  >>oh<<
>
> an interactive audio-visual poem
>
> touch the drops
> all
> and the blue
>
> A short poem by Jennifer Hill-Kaucher became a visual poem by Dan
> Waber which then became an interactive audio-visual poem (in Flash) by
> Reiner Strasser.
>
> We hope you enjoy,
> Dan
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:07:07 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Aaron Belz 
Subject:      Re: short poems need home
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Derek, THANK YOU.  This is exactly the kind of information I was
looking for.  I actually have poems in Issue 6 of Alba--

Shin Yu Pai recommended Richard Hansen's 24th Street Irregular Press, also,
and I plan to look into it.

I am bleeding somewhere because there are drops of blood on the floor.

Yours truly,
Aaron
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:32:38 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harrison Jeff 
Subject:      Sphere The Noble Brute, & Sphere The Golden Day Foaming Deathless
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

sun-gilded,
air grows all!


how,

        how could
I thin this out
when beneath
lamenting tears consider'd
as lava-smooth rhythms
is your evening'd severity,


where your eyelashes are but
a verse shade of "shall life...",
a fair dust with
"spell is pleasure",
like we're night,
and cold, and
sleep better, lyre,--


then it's wake & O sway all,--
then it's, it's, --
Sing "they moss you," My Words!


arises the oh-quick dove --
Virginia -- that thralls ye,
sun-like tho unprofitable
Herr Bibliothekarius, Herr
None Other Than The NO
Of Breath In Hushing Blots,


ye and me and she
are three, and three
lutes bloom and soon
Wormswork follows
with but light distrust


William Wormswork,
follow still, nod, and
late perseverance
gets at these
sleepy refrains,
aye, the happier away,
settle these praises,
your coldest half
shall hath only
Herr Reddened The Sun,
wither the name!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:33:02 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harrison Jeff 
Subject:      Rome, Yes, But Spare Ms. Virginia's Face The Roses
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

plenty Virginia, yet Rome
is still grey of brothers, so,
lulled Virginia, numberless certainty
serpent-knotted, swiftly thousand
by thousand by thousand is Virginia,
is adder-tongue, rose, the mirror
& go adrift, lips, have your long answer
without pacing pieces shrill beyond gentle,
have your thousands you'd reign by bronze,
elaborate smites, & so drip, then, rose, drip down
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:40:05 -0700
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mark DuCharme 
Subject:      Re: Ron Padgett on Pierre Reverdy at Poets House
In-Reply-To:  <20050118190254.17581.qmail@web60406.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Will recordings of this talk be made available, perhaps on-line?  Or if not,
as I suspect, if anybody in attendance feels like posting a report for those
of us far from NYC, I for one would greatly appreciate it.

Cheers,

Mark DuCharme

______________

a war burning, if the heart scores

bodiless, a curious blood and reasons
in ourselves inheriting the intellect
from out there   defined by a President

who is violence in this world

           —Robin Blaser



----Original Message Follows----
From: ryan murphy <ryanmurphy17@YAHOO.COM>
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>
To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Ron Padgett on Pierre Reverdy at Poets House
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:02:54 -0800

For Immediate Release

Contact: Stephen Motika

Program Coordinator

212-431-7920, ext. 12



Poets House presents

Ron Padgett on Pierre Reverdy

Thursday, January 20, 7pm



New York, January 2005—Poets House, a nonprofit literary center devoted to

poetry, presents poet Ron Padgett speaking on the poetry of Pierre Reverdy

(1889-1960), a prolific poet and central figure of France’s avant-garde

artistic and literary circles from the 1910s to the early 1920s. The event

will be held on Thursday, January 20, at 7pm, at Poets House, 72 Spring

Street, 2nd Floor, between Broadway and Lafayette. Admission is $7 or free

for members.

Ron Padgett is the author of the poetry volumes You Never Know (2002), Poems

I Guess I Wrote (2001), New & Selected Poems (1995), The Big Something

(1990), Triangles in the Afternoon (1979), Great Balls of Fire (1969), and

other collections. His prose books include two memoirs, Joe: A Memoir of Joe

Brainard (2004) and Oklahoma Tough: My Father, King of the Bootleggers

(2003), as well as a volume of selected prose entitled Blood Work (1993),

and translations of Blaise Cendrars' Complete Poems (1992), Pierre Cabanne's

Dialogues with Marcel Duchamp (1971), and Guillaume Apollinaire's The Poet

Assassinated (1968), among others. For his translations Padgett has received

grants and awards from the National Endowment for the Arts, the New York

State Council on the Arts, and Columbia University's Translation Center. He

was the editor-in-chief of World Poets, a three-volume reference book

(2000).

Pierre Reverdy (1889-1960), a Cubist poet alongside Apollinaire and Max

Jacob, inspired the Surrealist movement and its leaders. He moved to Paris

in 1910 and founded the journal Nord-Sud (North-South) in 1917, and

published Apollinaire, Jacob, Aragon, Breton, Soupault, and Tzara in its

pages. In 1926 he left Paris and spent the rest of his life in Solesmes,

France. Reverdy wrote literary reviews in addition to his many poems, which

are available in English in Pierre Reverdy: Selected Poems (1991).

#

Poets House is a 45,000-volume library and independent literary center

devoted exclusively to poetry. Its 2004-2005 Fall/Winter season features a

wide range of talks, panels, Master Classes, and public conversations for

readers, writers, and lovers of poetry. For more information about upcoming

events, visit our website at http://www.poetshouse.org or call

212-431-7920. The Poets House Reading Room is free and open to the public:

Tuesday-Friday, 11am-7pm; Saturday, 11am-4pm.






---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
  The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:57:22 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Stephen Vincent 
Subject:      Re: Ron Padgett on Pierre Reverdy at Poets House
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

> a war burning, if the heart scores
>=20
> bodiless, a curious blood and reasons
> in ourselves inheriting the intellect
> from out there   defined by a President
>=20
> who is violence in this world
>=20
>          =97Robin Blaser

From which Blaser poem/text is this, Mark?
One wants to ask which President?
Or all our Presidents generically compatible?
Each President - no matter who - 'inheriting'
the Violent signature, a burning, an inherence
Projected continuously. "We" at the receiving,
Performing end?

I like it, the quote. I also like Ron P's translations of Reverdy
And hhis biography of Joe Brainard. As far as I am concerned,
Ron does have 'the touch.' Wonderful to see/hear!

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:05:18 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     RFC822 error:  Incorrect or incomplete address field found and
              ignored.
From:         Ishaq 
Organization: selah7
Subject:      Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 Vision investigates
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

http://kamloopsindymedia.org/newswire/index.php


According to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), the
answer is Islamic extremism. Since 9/11, our national spy agency has put
Muslims under a microscope - especially those who are openly devout.
Indeed, many say they have been pressured to inform on their neighbours
and friends.

360 Vision
Wednesday, Jan. 26, 9 p.m. and 1 a.m. ET, 60 mins.

Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 Vision investigates

SIGNATURE SERIES
360 Vision
Wednesday, Jan. 26, 9 p.m. and 1 a.m. ET, 60 mins.
Repeats Thursday, Jan. 27, 10 p.m. ET
For Release Jan. 18, 2005

The "enemy within"?
Canada's intelligence service is spying on Muslims. 360 Vision
investigates how and why

What poses the greatest danger to the safety and security of Canadians
today?

According to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), the
answer is Islamic extremism. Since 9/11, our national spy agency has put
Muslims under a microscope - especially those who are openly devout.
Indeed, many say they have been pressured to inform on their neighbours
and friends.

In a special report, the VisionTV current affairs series 360 Vision
reveals how CSIS goes about spying on Muslims. Executive Producer Sadia
Zaman investigates the effect that all this scrutiny has had upon the
community - and upon one family in particular.

The program airs on Wednesday, Jan. 26 at 9 p.m. and 1 a.m. ET. It
repeats on Thursday, Jan. 27 at 10 p.m. ET.

In a statement to 360 Vision producers, CSIS calls Islamic extremism
"the most important threat to the security of Canada." The agency
acknowledges enlisting members of the Muslim community to assist in its
efforts to "vigorously investigate this threat," but denies profiling
people on the basis of faith.

Many Canadian Muslims would disagree. Toronto lawyer Amina Sherazee says
that the intelligence and law enforcement community had begun to regard
devout Muslims as "the enemy within" even before 9/11. "It's based a lot
on stereotypes ... [of] particularly religiously observant Muslims being
radical or anti-Western and therefore wanting to destroy anything that's
related with Western values."

The Salaheddin Islamic Centre has been a particular focus of CSIS
suspicion. Imam Aly Hindy unapologetically describes his Scarborough,
Ont. mosque as "fundamentalist," and has been politically outspoken
about the oppression of Muslims. Hindy says CSIS has openly recruited
members of the community as informants. "I know I'm being watched," he says.

Worshippers are being watched, too. The Khadrs - a Canadian family with
ties to Al-Qaeda - used to attend the Salaheddin mosque. So did Mahmoud
Jaballah. A father of six and a former principal of the centre's private
elementary school, Jaballah has been jailed since August 2001 on a
"security certificate," which allows the accused to be held without
charges, bail or even the right to review the allegations against him.
CSIS has accused him of working for the Egyptian terrorist group
Al-Jihad, a charge he denies. (Jaballah is one of five Muslim men in
Canada now being detained indefinitely on security certificates.)

With his father behind bars, 18-year-old Ahmed Jaballah has become head
of the family. He fiercely rejects any suggestion of wrongdoing on the
part of his father or Aly Hindy, and has spoken out publicly against the
spy agency's treatment of the Muslim community. "I thought this country
was a country of freedom," Ahmed said at a recent protest. "We will not
sit back and see the injustice around us."

As for Mahmoud Jaballah, he regards his ongoing incarceration as a test
from God, and spends much of his time in prayer. "I never lose hope that
one day ... the whole family will be reunited," he tells 360 Vision.

360 Vision is the only national current affairs show devoted to
exploring the role that spirituality plays in the lives of Canadians.
The series features in-depth documentary reports, interviews with
leading contemporary thinkers, provocative commentary from faith expert
Marianne Meed Ward and a regular pop culture segment.

-30-
For more information, contact:
David Todd, VisionTV Marketing & Communications, 416-368-3194, ext. 207,
e-mail: dtodd@visiontv.ca
Media Centre: www.visiontv.ca
Photo Gallery: www.visiontv.ca/Media/photogallery/photo_press2.htm
________________________________________________________
Montreal Muslim News Network - http://www.montrealmuslimnews.net


Listen to Caravan, produced by Samaa Elibyari, every Wednesday from 2-3PM:
http://www.montrealmuslimnews.net/caravan.htm

___\
Stay Strong\
\
  "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \
--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\
\
"This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\
of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\
--HellRazah\
\
"It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\
--Mutabartuka\
\
"As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \
our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \
actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\
  - Frantz Fanon\
\
"Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\
-Imam Ja'far Sadiq\
\
http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\
\
http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \
\
http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\
\
http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\
\
}
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:35:34 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Lucas Klein 
Subject:      Re: Not a joke.
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I also like the misspelling of "our own" in the "One" line.

I don't know Latin or Greek, but as I understand it the confusion over the
plural of "octopus" has to do with "pus" being Greek for foot, but it's
Latin wherein the plural of "-us" turns to "-i". The proper Greek plural of
"octopus" would be "octopodes". Seems like a faux intellectualism (such as
using bad French) that made "octopi" a convention.

For the record, my dictionary says either "octopi" or "octopuses" is
accepted, and so does my spellcheck.

Lucas



-----Original Message-----
From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On
Behalf Of George Bowering
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 4:42 PM
To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Re: Not a joke.

On 18-Jan-05, at 12:32 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote:

> Not a joke.
>
> How many octopi does it take to change a light-bulb?
>
> One. This is based on the animal's intelligence, which rivals own own.
>
> One quarter. This is based on the manual dexterity of the animal's
> arms,
> which is greater than our own.
>
> _
>
>

But the plural is octopuses.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:44:42 +1300
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "richard.tylr" 
Subject:      Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 Vision
              investigates
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The "enemy within" is the madness of US and other capitalist societies -
alienation...paranoia made worse by the owners of means of production - the
bourgeoisie - to use it as  a marxist term: by enormous military might and
capital and the terrible misuse of that: - and the drive for power and oil -
the Imperialist nature of the US- Brtish and other nations - their use of
racism to achieve their goals - their paying of puppets to do their work (as
they are attempting to do now in Iraq) - this bogus election taking place in
Iraq - my heart leaps with joy when I see suicide bombs gong off to disrupt
that monstrous hypocrisy - the US etc need to withdrwaw their occupation
from all round the workd - the terrorists are the US mainly - the
US-Military Industrial Complex as it was in the Vietnam days  - nothing  has
changed  fundmentally - the US is close to fascism. The Chinesee were gald
when s/11 hap[pedn  - they consideerd it  pay back - for all the bombing and
conniving and so on by the US throughout the world - the arrogant
interference in other peoples and other cultures - its sheer brutality -
vastness - and arrogance.  If this arrogance continues it will be nuclear
suicide bombs going off one day in the US - and it will be good as it will
be pay back and we will be rid of the most dangerous arrogant violent
terrosist nation on God's earth apart from Israel.

If I lived in the US I would emigrate before it is too late.

(As the US people per se can't be blamed for these mostrosities - eg Abu
Graib - Guantanamo -Mai Lai, Loas, Vietnam, Cambodia, napalm, napalm,
Mogadishu, Libya,Nigeria etc etc Chile - Panama, Cuba - Salvador - Kosovo-
Somalia - Indonesia etc etc  Diego Garcia, The Marhsall Islands- destruction
destructiohn arrogance arrogcance)

Richard Taylor.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ishaq" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 1:05 PM
Subject: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 Vision investigates


> http://kamloopsindymedia.org/newswire/index.php
>
>
> According to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), the
> answer is Islamic extremism. Since 9/11, our national spy agency has put
> Muslims under a microscope - especially those who are openly devout.
> Indeed, many say they have been pressured to inform on their neighbours
> and friends.
>
> 360 Vision
> Wednesday, Jan. 26, 9 p.m. and 1 a.m. ET, 60 mins.
>
> Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 Vision investigates
>
> SIGNATURE SERIES
> 360 Vision
> Wednesday, Jan. 26, 9 p.m. and 1 a.m. ET, 60 mins.
> Repeats Thursday, Jan. 27, 10 p.m. ET
> For Release Jan. 18, 2005
>
> The "enemy within"?
> Canada's intelligence service is spying on Muslims. 360 Vision
> investigates how and why
>
> What poses the greatest danger to the safety and security of Canadians
> today?
>
> According to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), the
> answer is Islamic extremism. Since 9/11, our national spy agency has put
> Muslims under a microscope - especially those who are openly devout.
> Indeed, many say they have been pressured to inform on their neighbours
> and friends.
>
> In a special report, the VisionTV current affairs series 360 Vision
> reveals how CSIS goes about spying on Muslims. Executive Producer Sadia
> Zaman investigates the effect that all this scrutiny has had upon the
> community - and upon one family in particular.
>
> The program airs on Wednesday, Jan. 26 at 9 p.m. and 1 a.m. ET. It
> repeats on Thursday, Jan. 27 at 10 p.m. ET.
>
> In a statement to 360 Vision producers, CSIS calls Islamic extremism
> "the most important threat to the security of Canada." The agency
> acknowledges enlisting members of the Muslim community to assist in its
> efforts to "vigorously investigate this threat," but denies profiling
> people on the basis of faith.
>
> Many Canadian Muslims would disagree. Toronto lawyer Amina Sherazee says
> that the intelligence and law enforcement community had begun to regard
> devout Muslims as "the enemy within" even before 9/11. "It's based a lot
> on stereotypes ... [of] particularly religiously observant Muslims being
> radical or anti-Western and therefore wanting to destroy anything that's
> related with Western values."
>
> The Salaheddin Islamic Centre has been a particular focus of CSIS
> suspicion. Imam Aly Hindy unapologetically describes his Scarborough,
> Ont. mosque as "fundamentalist," and has been politically outspoken
> about the oppression of Muslims. Hindy says CSIS has openly recruited
> members of the community as informants. "I know I'm being watched," he
says.
>
> Worshippers are being watched, too. The Khadrs - a Canadian family with
> ties to Al-Qaeda - used to attend the Salaheddin mosque. So did Mahmoud
> Jaballah. A father of six and a former principal of the centre's private
> elementary school, Jaballah has been jailed since August 2001 on a
> "security certificate," which allows the accused to be held without
> charges, bail or even the right to review the allegations against him.
> CSIS has accused him of working for the Egyptian terrorist group
> Al-Jihad, a charge he denies. (Jaballah is one of five Muslim men in
> Canada now being detained indefinitely on security certificates.)
>
> With his father behind bars, 18-year-old Ahmed Jaballah has become head
> of the family. He fiercely rejects any suggestion of wrongdoing on the
> part of his father or Aly Hindy, and has spoken out publicly against the
> spy agency's treatment of the Muslim community. "I thought this country
> was a country of freedom," Ahmed said at a recent protest. "We will not
> sit back and see the injustice around us."
>
> As for Mahmoud Jaballah, he regards his ongoing incarceration as a test
> from God, and spends much of his time in prayer. "I never lose hope that
> one day ... the whole family will be reunited," he tells 360 Vision.
>
> 360 Vision is the only national current affairs show devoted to
> exploring the role that spirituality plays in the lives of Canadians.
> The series features in-depth documentary reports, interviews with
> leading contemporary thinkers, provocative commentary from faith expert
> Marianne Meed Ward and a regular pop culture segment.
>
> -30-
> For more information, contact:
> David Todd, VisionTV Marketing & Communications, 416-368-3194, ext. 207,
> e-mail: dtodd@visiontv.ca
> Media Centre: www.visiontv.ca
> Photo Gallery: www.visiontv.ca/Media/photogallery/photo_press2.htm
> ________________________________________________________
> Montreal Muslim News Network - http://www.montrealmuslimnews.net
>
>
> Listen to Caravan, produced by Samaa Elibyari, every Wednesday from 2-3PM:
> http://www.montrealmuslimnews.net/caravan.htm
>
> ___\
> Stay Strong\
> \
>   "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \
> --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\
> \
> "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\
> of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\
> --HellRazah\
> \
> "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\
> --Mutabartuka\
> \
> "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \
> our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \
> actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\
>   - Frantz Fanon\
> \
> "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\
> -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\
> \
> http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\
> \
> http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \
> \
> http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\
> \
> http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\
> \
> }
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:58:42 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         George Bowering 
Subject:      Re: short poems need home
In-Reply-To:  <002b01c4fdb2$6fbfe6f0$230110ac@AaronDell>
MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

> I am bleeding somewhere because there are drops of blood on the floor.
>
> Yours truly,
> Aaron
>
>

Wouldnt that be the other way around?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:10:01 +0000
Reply-To:     Maria Villafranca 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Villafranca 
Subject:      open mic reading nyc this saturday!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Open Mic poetry reading featuring Lance Phillips at the Dactyl Foundation, January 22nd:

Dactyl Foundation for the Arts & Humanities
64 Grand Street (between West Broadway & Wooster)
SoHo, NYC
212.219.2344
www.dactyl.org

Open Mic/Emerging Poets Series featuring poet Lance Phillips
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 6-8 p.m.
$8 donation
Drinks will be served.
Open to all writers and the general public.
Lance Phillips holds degrees from the University of North Carolina and the Iowa Writers' Workshop. His first book, Corpus Socius, was published in 2002 by Ahsahta Press and his second, Cur aliquid vidi was released this past December from the same. His work has appeared in Aufgabe, Colorado Review, Fence and Slope among others. He lives in Charlotte, NC.
There will be an open mic following the reading. Poets are encouraged to register: write Maria Villafranca at poetry@verseonvellum.com. Poets plan to read for about 10 minutes; 3 poems.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:10:30 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Stephen Vincent 
Subject:      FW: Social Security: Only Two Days Left
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Excuse any cross-posting.
------ Forwarded Message
From: Diane DiPrima 

Subject: Social Security: Only Two Days Left


Dear Working Families e-Activist:

Please take one moment today to preserve retirement security and stop
President George W. Bush=B9s plan to privatize Social Security. We need to
deliver a loud and strong message by Thursday, Inauguration Day, telling
President Bush and Congress we demand they strengthen Social Security, not
wreck it.=20

Click here to sign the Petition to Protect Social Security:

http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/ProtectSocialSecurity/


President Bush=B9s plan to privatize Social Security would hurt working
families. It would force huge cuts in retirees=B9 benefits and saddle our
children with $2 trillion in debt, most of which we would owe to foreign
countries such as China and Japan. But it=B9s one of his top priorities=8Band
immediately following his inauguration this Thursday, Bush=B9s administration
will launch a PR campaign like we=B9ve never seen to privatize Social
Security.=20

We need to act now to make our voices heard. We need 100,000 signatures on
our petition by Thursday to make our point and counter this PR blitz. Pleas=
e
sign the Petition to Protect Social Security right now:

http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/ProtectSocialSecurity/


President Bush wants to trade Social Security=B9s guaranteed benefits for
risky Wall Street accounts. Politicians would decide which investment
companies manage the millions of accounts, opening the door to massive
political corruption and waste.

President Bush and his allies say the private accounts would be
voluntary=8Bbut even retirees who don=B9t sign up for private accounts will
suffer huge benefit cuts. Many retirees will be left in poverty, and
taxpayers and family members will have to provide them with the help that
now comes from Social Security=B9s guaranteed benefits.

Today, before the president=B9s inauguration, sign the Petition to Protect
Social Security:=20

http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/ProtectSocialSecurity/


Throughout our working lives, we pay into the Social Security system so we
can have a decent living after retirement. This isn=B9t a hand-out=8Bit=B9s money
that belongs to us because we paid into the Social Security trust fund.
Don=B9t let your retirement security be taken away. Please sign the petition,
then urge your friends, family and co-workers to sign it, too, by clicking
this link:=20

http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/ProtectSocialSecurity/forward


Thank you for taking action for working families.

In solidarity,=20

Working Families e-Activist Network, AFL-CIO
January 18, 2005=20

P.S. There are only two days left until Inauguration Day=8Band we need 100,00=
0
signatures by then. Please sign our Petition to Protect Social Security and
urge others to sign it also.



Visit the Web address below to tell your friends, family and co-workers
about the fight to protect Social Security.
Tell-a-friend!=20


If you received this message from a friend, you can sign up for Working
Families e-Activist Network
 .

If you would like to unsubscribe from the e-Activist Network, or update you=
r
account settings, please visit your subscription management page
 .


------ End of Forwarded Message
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:25:29 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         William A Sylvester 
Subject:      Douglas Manson
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Manson has a lively poetry/conversation on our Amy Goodman station 1270,
and his own poetry very intense.  His own poetry is for the ear, so if you
are in the Buffalo area on January 28, come to the free Friday Night at
the Albright Knox Art Gallery, 6-8 pm.  January 28th

Bill Sylvester
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:30:17 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         William A Sylvester 
Subject:      SARAH COLE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Cole is editor of the beautifully printed and wide ranging book length
P-Queue. Her own poetry combine a keen sense of abstraction, and lyricism,
and is immediately pleasurable.

You have a chance to hear her at the free Friday Night at the Albright
Knox Art Gallery, during Just Buffalo's presentation 6-8 pm.

Bill Sylvester
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:08:26 -0700
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mark DuCharme 
Subject:      Re: Ron Padgett on Pierre Reverdy at Poets House
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Stephen, you've interrupted my happy lurkerdom.  Damn!

You're the second person in a week who's asked me about this.  In fact, both
of you are named Stephen.  I'm sensing a pattern here.

The poem is called "The Finder."  I ashamedly don't know which of Blaser's
books it's in.  I happened on it in the Messerli anthology From the Other
Side of the Century.  I suspect, but don't know, that the president referred
to is either Nixon or Johnson, though I guess it could also be Reagan.  I
use the passage as my e-mail signature because, for me, the lines refer more
presciently to our current historical tragedy.

While I'm quoting, here's another, from the horse's mouth: "It's important
for people to know that I'm the president of everybody."  This, from a story
I read last night, I think from the Washington Post.  The context,
amazingly, was his dumbfoundedness that more blacks didn't vote for him,
since he felt he had attempted to reach out to their community.  The
understated authoritarian phrasing here I think speaks for itself.  This was
the same interview, by the way, in which he said (& I'm paraphrasing) that
mistakes in Iraq now don't matter because the voters have spoken, & so the
"accountability moment" has passed.  Breathtaking.

As for Reverdy, I've been fascinated with his work for many years.  Ditto
Padgett.  Since Padgett's had a longstanding interest & involvement (as a
translator) in Reverdy's poetry, I'm very interested in what he'll have to
say (coincidentally, on the night of the inaugural).  You should also check
out Ashbery's translations of PR, if you haven't done so.  As well as the
book of translations Kenneth Rexroth published many moons ago.  All quite
worthwhile, if you're into that sort of thing.

Best,

Mark


----Original Message Follows----
From: Stephen Vincent <steph484@PACBELL.NET>
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>
To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Re: Ron Padgett on Pierre Reverdy at Poets House
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:57:22 -0800

> a war burning, if the heart scores
>
> bodiless, a curious blood and reasons
> in ourselves inheriting the intellect
> from out there   defined by a President
>
> who is violence in this world
>
>          —Robin Blaser

From which Blaser poem/text is this, Mark?
One wants to ask which President?
Or all our Presidents generically compatible?
Each President - no matter who - 'inheriting'
the Violent signature, a burning, an inherence
Projected continuously. "We" at the receiving,
Performing end?

I like it, the quote. I also like Ron P's translations of Reverdy
And hhis biography of Joe Brainard. As far as I am concerned,
Ron does have 'the touch.' Wonderful to see/hear!

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:38:01 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      the news and we can't
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN; format=flowed

the news and we can't


fathom the reoccurrence and nothing to do but wait hope is useless and her
name, boojum, jean-paul, others her name, boojum, jean-paul, others her
name, boojum, jean-paul, others her name, boojum, jean-paul, others hear
the despair among the carbon cacti, boojum trees, even in the midst of the
cat, Boojum, imagining her, the tenor of her fur, quality of her eyes,
Boojum Carter Comments by writer: Boojum is named after the Boojum tree in
Baja fury of cancer and creation. Azure and I are beside ourselves, and
Boojum Boojum, our cat, is checked now daily for a resurgence of cancer;
we can't


the cat cannot remain in a mixed state vis-a-vis the Schrodinger wave
{k:41} cat zz
{k:44} cat zzz
{k:46} cat zz
pay attention to the cat desperate for attention. I'm alone with animals
I die my cat may starve. How much longer can I pay the cost
put the dog in the house and put the cat in the other house
  a cat in it
i put the dog in the house and i put the cat in the other house
i put the dog in the house and the cat in the house
put the cat in the nice month
now the cat is in november and the boy is in january

when I'm lying on the bed, I get under the beige blanket with the cat and
busy photosynthesis, with only the cat looking on, all of them so cuddly
{k:39} cat zzz
{k:41} cat zz
{k:44} cat zzz
{k:46} cat zz

1. It's a myth that a cat brings mice to humans as a sign that they're
poor hunters. The mice are transitional objects, gifts. The cat will also
2. It's a myth that a cat sees humans as large cats; one only has to bring
another cat in the room, as opposed to a human, to see that the cat can
make this distinction. The cat sees a human as a human.
3. It's a myth that a cat is "fooled" by hands and feet under the covers.
In fact, the cat will play along for a while; she's bored. She tires of
4. A cat will, like a python, immediately lock eyes; it's the eyes that
5. A cat possesses ikonic signifiers; the artificial mice are a good exam-
ment or the investment of desire. So a cat ignores the mirror stage, but
7. Evolution has bred the cat towards almost perfect neotany in size,
8. Because of its extended kitten-play, it's evident that a cat possesses
a cat can lick the arm of a human on one hand, while violently flailing at
19 pico z 20 cat jl z > ding 21 new z 22 B0100000027fed4 23    24 h 25 h
's/ksh/Kush/' zz > zzz 122 pico zzz 123 new zzz 124 cat jn zzz > ding 125

Facing the monitor on a shelf against the wall, the cat dish and box are
within culture, inscribed from within. And she will do what cats do, what
a cat does, what this cat does, and I will watch her. And I will see the
ikonic at best and

{k:14} cat passwd | grep nikuko

The cat _knows,_ lying in unfamiliar spaces, walking guarded with unknown
sorrow. The cat watches me pace the floor, on the telephone, or thinking,
the dust of countries. My books will cry behind me, the cat will cry as
was a street cat who was kept as a tiny kitten, I think, in the basement of

{k:14} cat passwd | grep nikuko
{k:43} cat Nikuko
{k:44} cat Jennifer
{k:46} cat Jennifer
{k:48} cat Nikuko
{k:50} cat Nikuko
{k:52} cat Jennifer
{k:54} cat Nikuko
{k:56} cat Jennifer
{k:39} cat zzz
{k:41} cat zz
{k:44} cat zzz
{k:46} cat zz

"oh mail, oh cat lips, uh mail, uh cau liuu - haha!
My cat uses paws to straighten her claws,
Confucian. But the cat travels distances across this world

The cat waits in its environment. The dog shifts uneasily.
The cat defines the environment, I'm here!

The cat is existential; the dog, a phenomenologist. If
the cat is modern, the dog is always already postmodern.

100 quick quick cat X > /dev/null
0 0 cat bb >> dd sed 's/ i / yon /g' bb > cc sed 's/ you / i /g' cc > bb
put the dog in the house and put the cat in the other house
  a cat in it
purring, older, a cat of kindness, beauty.
purring, older, a cat of kindness, beauty.
purring, older, a cat of kindness, beauty.
purring, older, a cat of kindness, beauty.
   427  cat Blood Fantasm Past Uncanny Weather >> netintro
rabbit <--> cat <--> dog .

A cat is the site of dreamwork, fantasm; it is necessarily incomprehensib-
le. The cat is feared as neither tool/function or food; it problematizes
human communication. A cat appears contented, but its purr is still not

   180  cat K*.txt > zz
   181  cat K*.Txt > zz
   184  cat K*.xml > zz

her to touch another world. The adult plays with a dog or a cat which
during my lifetime collapsed into a sea of debris, the cat I accompany
the cat is a confused race, conflating instinct with human transmissions
sound, are something else. so the cat has lived for thousands of years
the cat and I cannot figure anything out with a dispassionate air. her
thought itself, is the 'condition' of being human. (A cat thinks,
volent spirits, echos in the hiss of the cat or snake. These
volcanic fissure, and the cat are _identical_.
surplus of woman and man, one behind and one in front." The cat

    story of the cat and the snake, commentary by Akita, working
    (The cat and the snake were travelling along the path. The
    snake said to the cat that four feet made a double-bind held
    to one-another, the split of the subject. The cat said to the

[image] and the sond of my cat purr [file]
goodbye [video] and my cat too [video].

nietzsche. you will know what i am talking about. my cat is looking at me.

all animals feel emotion directly. my cat has a great bandwidth of
emotion. my cat has five percent of a million years. her brain is smaller

and has a history. The cat here is the same; the cat here is the same.


the news and we can't


fathom the reoccurrence and nothing to do but wait hope is useless and her
name, boojum, jean-paul, others her name, boojum, jean-paul, others her
name, boojum, jean-paul, others her name, boojum, jean-paul, others hear
the despair among the carbon cacti, boojum trees, even in the midst of the
cat, Boojum, imagining her, the tenor of her fur, quality of her eyes,
Boojum Carter Comments by writer: Boojum is named after the Boojum tree in
Baja fury of cancer and creation. Azure and I are beside ourselves, and
Boojum Boojum, our cat, is checked now daily for a resurgence of cancer;
we can't
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:46:53 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      sunset
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

sunset

email of humanity to hearing reply can assist and soonest can soon soonest
and humanity be email soon forward to greetings to forward soon email of
greetings and soonest can alternate humanity humanity be email can soonest
and greetings to forward can forward to you and soonest can looking of
greetings humanity please email alternate humanity you help forward
alternate soonest and your and from alternate hearing to your greetings
email looking of you you help forward email greetings family! and from
email soonest and family! humanity looking hearing to family! your of
forward forward of you family! me from looking greetings this humanity
looking soonest assist this your of forward hearing to family! this me
from forward of your mail humanity soonest forward greetings mail you be
hearing soonest and mail this to from from to this mail assist soonest
hearing of your might you be hearing greetings might this to from soonest
and might might assist soonest soonest to this come you please from of
your come family! help soonest please greetings come might and soonest
soonest and might come greetings please soonest to this as family! help
soonest of your as might and soonest please greetings as as greetings
please and might a family! of to mail surprise might me of your a as
humanity please please greetings as surprise your of please and come the
mail me please to mail the as humanity be of your surprise surprise your
of be greetings a the mail to be and come temptation as assist be to mail
temptation surprise you of help your the temptation this to of greetings a
ignore come assist of and come ignore surprise you help me mail temptation
temptation this to help your the ignore come and help greetings a it
surprise greetings help assist come it temptation family! to me this
ignore it might and to your the unserious a greetings to greetings a
unserious temptation family! me assist come unserious it might and and
this ignore could a greetings me your temptation could temptation your and
greetings a could it mail assist assist come unserious could as humanity
and this it into the your and your temptation into it mail assist
greetings a into could as humanity humanity come could mind the your
assist this it mind it this humanity your temptation mind could come
greetings you a mind mind surprise you greetings come could but ignore
this greetings this it consider could come greetings family! temptation
but mind surprise your you a mind consider ignore this you come could
divine could might you mail it divine mind a your family! temptation
consider consider temptation this your a mind divine unserious might your
come could wish mind a your mail it divine consider temptation this this
temptation consider wish unserious might family! a but accept mind as
family! come could accept consider the this mail it wish wish wish wish
wish

_
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:44:17 +1300
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "richard.tylr" 
Subject:      Re: Ron Padgett on Pierre Reverdy at Poets House
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Padgett

I read an interview with him and liked his work - I like that poem where all
of  sudden he saays - and so I (spend") my time waiting for a deaath" and
Iused itin a poem  - And I too , Padgy, spend my time awating anoter's
death" but of course to myt pepelwhen I read thepoem  - theconection was
obscure -dontknwoe why we poets show off liek thsi some times - allude etc
I'm read pieces her pieces tehre -pick up marknlbles of light and scraps  of
consciounessss, detritus - try to recycle it  - the mind is strange

Reverdy

Read a translation -which I could read French but we reading Reverdy (via
O'Hara  - his famous reference - I also read Tarkl - for some reason Trakl
is the writer for me (but Ilied themethod of Reverdy and tried to write omse
poems like him) - I even try to read him  (Trakl) in German - Iove the
German words - like 'dunkel' and 'tal' and so on -  my "son in law"  (my
daughter refuses to marry anyone - that's her business) is German - didnt
know  Trakl - but knew one other - read as more Si Fi and graphic novels etc

yes I thik Bly and otehrs came via Reverdy and Celan etc etc

Crossing the Century is good and I liek teh two volumes of Poems fo the
Milleiusm - great work I feel Puierre and Jerome - that's what Iwas thinking
of when I sent my "silybuggers" about the kabbala etc - my freind obecjted
that teauthors iuntrude toomuch but - well I liek it it geivesme some idea -
its wher I saw hoaw Mallarme started the "open form" with his poem about
the throw of a dice etc etc

Blaser

A friend of Spicers - must get his and more of Spicer's books - Spicer has
an imeediate impact for me - can use the net as I am a book seller but -
well hopefully it will turn up - dont want to go to Borders etc to pay $80
or more...
there is so much to read - we relyon reports...

Richard Taylor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark DuCharme" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Ron Padgett on Pierre Reverdy at Poets House


> Stephen, you've interrupted my happy lurkerdom.  Damn!
>
> You're the second person in a week who's asked me about this.  In fact,
both
> of you are named Stephen.  I'm sensing a pattern here.
>
> The poem is called "The Finder."  I ashamedly don't know which of Blaser's
> books it's in.  I happened on it in the Messerli anthology From the Other
> Side of the Century.  I suspect, but don't know, that the president
referred
> to is either Nixon or Johnson, though I guess it could also be Reagan.  I
> use the passage as my e-mail signature because, for me, the lines refer
more
> presciently to our current historical tragedy.
>
> While I'm quoting, here's another, from the horse's mouth: "It's important
> for people to know that I'm the president of everybody."  This, from a
story
> I read last night, I think from the Washington Post.  The context,
> amazingly, was his dumbfoundedness that more blacks didn't vote for him,
> since he felt he had attempted to reach out to their community.  The
> understated authoritarian phrasing here I think speaks for itself.  This
was
> the same interview, by the way, in which he said (& I'm paraphrasing) that
> mistakes in Iraq now don't matter because the voters have spoken, & so the
> "accountability moment" has passed.  Breathtaking.
>
> As for Reverdy, I've been fascinated with his work for many years.  Ditto
> Padgett.  Since Padgett's had a longstanding interest & involvement (as a
> translator) in Reverdy's poetry, I'm very interested in what he'll have to
> say (coincidentally, on the night of the inaugural).  You should also
check
> out Ashbery's translations of PR, if you haven't done so.  As well as the
> book of translations Kenneth Rexroth published many moons ago.  All quite
> worthwhile, if you're into that sort of thing.
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Stephen Vincent <steph484@PACBELL.NET>
> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>
> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: Ron Padgett on Pierre Reverdy at Poets House
> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:57:22 -0800
>
> > a war burning, if the heart scores
> >
> > bodiless, a curious blood and reasons
> > in ourselves inheriting the intellect
> > from out there   defined by a President
> >
> > who is violence in this world
> >
> >          —Robin Blaser
>
> From which Blaser poem/text is this, Mark?
> One wants to ask which President?
> Or all our Presidents generically compatible?
> Each President - no matter who - 'inheriting'
> the Violent signature, a burning, an inherence
> Projected continuously. "We" at the receiving,
> Performing end?
>
> I like it, the quote. I also like Ron P's translations of Reverdy
> And hhis biography of Joe Brainard. As far as I am concerned,
> Ron does have 'the touch.' Wonderful to see/hear!
>
> Stephen V
> Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 00:53:15 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jesse Taylor 
Subject:      The Naked Readings
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

This Sunday
January 23rd
7-10pm

The Naked Readings
Poetry Music Art Life Art Music Poetry

Open Mic., Featured Poet, Music and Art series...

@

Makeready's Gallery 214
214 Glenridge Avenue
Montclair, NJ
http://makereadypress.com/


Featured Poet
D. A. Bird
Check out the works of D. A. Bird at
http://www.spiralbridge.org/home.asp

Music by
Carrie Engdahl

Please join us at this inspiring event celebrating the words and worlds
of poets from all over the Metropolitan area traversing the diverse
realms of creative expression. Seize the opportunity to re-connect with
the wonderful and supportive community of Spoken Word in funky
Montclair, NJ.

http://www.spiralbridge.org/events.asp


Directions to GALLERY 214 -

From GSP, exit 151, west on Watchung Ave, 1.5 miles to RR overpass, left
on Park St.
go 1.1 miles, left on Bloomfield Ave., 2 lights to N. Willow St.;
At North Willow St turn right, go one block to Glenridge Ave. turn left,
go 1 1/2 blocks.

Rtes. 3 & 46, exit "Valley Rd, Montclair", south 4.3 miles, left on
Bloomfield Ave,
3 lights to N. Willow. At North Willow St turn left,
go one block to Glenridge Ave. turn left, go 1 1/2 blocks.

From Route 280 exit 8B Prospect Ave. north 2 miles, right on Bloomfield
Ave.
1 mile to N. Willow St.; at North Willow St turn left,
go one block to Glenridge Ave. turn left, go 1 1/2 blocks.

From Port Authority, NYC,
DeCamp Bus #33 or #66 to Bloomfield Ave., Montclair
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:42:57 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

below the below
beguine the sno'

listserv
@
.buffalo


3:00...00....drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:38:17 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: A neglected poets
Comments: To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

we're all neglected poets
in one way or another
in more ways than one
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:50:36 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      neglected...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

all poets are neglected
all babes are beauteeful

in bed
with yr eyes clothed...


drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 02:05:09 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: re
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

about anna margolin


a yid  dish
of the lower east side
one book along
perferated in the public library
school kid's talk
her living white hands
her bride's hands clutching
her lover to her
elevated
screened
liberated  & suffering
the price paid for being leda
leader

woman
send no cilbups
nibur nor ice
10th language pluralities
religion
arcade melons or
holy cents

i am a kite at your disposal
a liter of intertextual references
an introspective & shy
proposal

you import your work
to many lops
i ate the paper

what do you say to these short
pants ? -  i'll never wear them ever

this daily hell
dertag und femail
you surely are

the old penguin removes her tux
& prepares for her
destruction.


                                                steve dalachinsky nyc
1/18-19/05
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:02:24 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Pierre Joris 
Subject:      Steve Lacy Memorial
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Should you be in, on or around the NYC premises tonight:

Poets'  Memorial for Steve Lacy
Wednesday,  8:00pm


A memorial for and tribute to the great  and most literary of jazz=20
musicians,  Steve Lacy, who died of liver cancer  in June of last year,=20=

age 69. Born in  New York in 1934, Lacy rescued the soprano  sax from=20
almost total disuse in 1950  and, in the ensuing decades, made the =20
instrument uniquely his own while simultaneously  expanding its=20
possibilities. Tonight=92s  readers and performers include Irene  Aebi,=20=

Juini Booth, William Corbett, Robert  Creeley, Douglas Dunn, Suzanne=20
Frecon,  John Giorno, Pierre Joris, Daniel Kelpfer,  James Koller, Ruth=20=

Lepson, Nicole Peyrafitte,  and Roswell Rudd, among others.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
"Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all."  -- Gottfried Benn
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
For updates on readings, etc. check my  current events page:
             http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pierre Joris
244 Elm Street=09
Albany NY 12202 =09
h: 518 426 0433 =09
c: 518 225 7123                                                 =09
o: 518 442 40 85                                                        =09=

email: joris@albany.edu
http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:52:51 -0500
Reply-To:     richard.j.newman@verizon.net
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Jeffrey Newman 
Subject:      Re: A neglected poets
In-Reply-To:  <20050119.014639.-171527.14.skyplums@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Steve wrote:

>>we're all neglected poets
in one way or another
in more ways than one<<

True enough, I suppose, but some are more neglected than others, and then
there is the question of neglected by whom and why--and even where and
when--and it is useful, and valuable, when someone brings back to public
attention, or to the attention of a previously ignorant public, the work of
a poet which deserves that attention. We may all be neglected "in one way or
another/in more ways than one"--and it is also an interesting question
whether that is a good or bad thing--but not all of our work deserves the
kind of attention I am talking about.

Rich Newman
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 06:55:38 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Lawrence Sawyer 
Subject:      Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 vision
              Investigates
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Hey richard.tylr

I don't know what you're smoking in New Zealand but
you need to take a break

in reference to YOUR comment  "my heart leaps with joy when I see
suicide bombs gong off to disrupt
that monstrous hypocrisy"     what kind of sick shit is that

For the record that's the insane thinking that's helping to demonize
all opposing viewpoints
to this administration       I don't want to be lumped in with you

violence is the problem not the solution

the taking of any life is a crime          and I guess since I've read
Silliman's blog entry lately    here's
a little lesson for you

"A South politician preaches to the poor white man,
"You got more than the blacks, don't complain.
You're better than them, you been born with white skin," they explain.
And the Negro's name
Is used it is plain
For the politician's gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game."

--Only a Pawn in Their Game, Bob Dylan
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:07:52 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Pierre Joris 
Subject:      Re: Steve Lacy Memorial
In-Reply-To:  
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& forgot to say that the actual premises in nyc are

The Poetry Project
At St Marks Church
131 E. 10th St., New York, NY 10003


On Jan 19, 2005, at 7:02 AM, Pierre Joris wrote:

> Should you be in, on or around the NYC premises tonight:
>
> Poets'  Memorial for Steve Lacy
> Wednesday,  8:00pm
>
>
> A memorial for and tribute to the great  and most literary of jazz=20
> musicians,  Steve Lacy, who died of liver cancer  in June of last=20
> year, age 69. Born in  New York in 1934, Lacy rescued the soprano  sax=20=

> from almost total disuse in 1950  and, in the ensuing decades, made=20
> the  instrument uniquely his own while simultaneously  expanding its=20=

> possibilities. Tonight=92s  readers and performers include Irene  =
Aebi,=20
> Juini Booth, William Corbett, Robert  Creeley, Douglas Dunn, Suzanne=20=

> Frecon,  John Giorno, Pierre Joris, Daniel Kelpfer,  James Koller,=20
> Ruth Lepson, Nicole Peyrafitte,  and Roswell Rudd, among others.
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

> "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all."  -- Gottfried Benn
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

> For updates on readings, etc. check my  current events page:
>             http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

> Pierre Joris
> 244 Elm Street=09
> Albany NY 12202 =09
> h: 518 426 0433 =09
> c: 518 225 7123                                                 =09
> o: 518 442 40 85                                                      =20=

>  =09
> email: joris@albany.edu
> http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
"Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all."  -- Gottfried Benn
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
For updates on readings, etc. check my  current events page:
             http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pierre Joris
244 Elm Street=09
Albany NY 12202 =09
h: 518 426 0433 =09
c: 518 225 7123                                                 =09
o: 518 442 40 85                                                        =09=

email: joris@albany.edu
http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:54:19 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Joe Brennan 
Subject:      "Allawi Made His Bones"
Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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 Click here: The Assassinated Press
http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/

US Official Confirms Iraqi President Allawi Shot Six Dead:
Negroponte Quoted As Saying "Allawi Made His Bones" With Killings:
CIA: "What's The Big Deal. Allawi's Been Killing For Us For Years."
Cheney: "Our Hope Is That Allawi Is To Saddam What Hitler Was To Mussolini
And Brings What We Like To Call In The Trade 'Stability' To The Region."
By REGINALD SMYTHE BLANCO


They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.

".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in
the
sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful
language
of power.  There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or
hypocritical,
whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks.  The dominating
impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed
good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured

forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter
house.
One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first
giving
free reign to this hubbub of voices...."
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:21:06 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jerry 
Subject:      An Order of  Bush Sum
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The New York Times > AP > National > Summary Box: Did Bush Live Up to =
Promises?Even if you're a necocon living

in dumfuckistan (as some say)

you gotta think this is=20

all a bust:

      THE FIRST TIME

      outta the box=20

      President STUPID promised action=20

      on education, taxes, weapons=20

      proliferation and=20

      Social Security.
      SO FAR: STUPID pushed through=20

      major legislation addressing education --

       the No Child Left Behind Act -- and=20

      cutting taxes.=20

      The threat=20

      of weapons of mass destruction=20

      led to the war in Iraq.

      AND YET: No=20

      such weapons have=20

      been found in Iraq. A Social=20

      Security overhaul went=20

      nowhere=20

      in STUPID's first term,=20

      and remains=20

      a tough sell.=20
    =20
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:27:29 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Small Press Traffic 
Subject:      Poets Theater this Friday
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Greetings, all!
Well it was standing room only at the opening of our Poets Theater Jamboree
last week --- thank you all!

Here's the line up for
Friday, January 21, at 7:30 PM:

Please arrive early (7ish) for best results ---
Seating is first come first served.
All seats $10 (it's a fundraiser) ---


Gertrude Stein, "White Wines" (1913), directed by Elizabeth Treadwell cast:
Stefani J. Barber, Sarah Anne Cox, Dana Teen Lomax, Juliana Spahr & Carol
Treadwell

Steffi Drewes, "A Single Piece of Any Color," with Andy Nicholson & Steffi
Drewes

Jackson MacLow, from "The Pronouns," directed by Joseph Lease

Arnold J. Kemp, "Composition with Toy Piano," directed by the author

Daphne Gottlieb, "introducing linda lovelace as herself," directed by Rodney
Koeneke cast: Alexander Lewis & Lindsay Anderson



Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director
Small Press Traffic
Literary Arts Center at CCA
1111 -- 8th Street
San Francisco, CA 94107
415.551.9278
http://www.sptraffic.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:23:31 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Robert Corbett 
Subject:      poetry as it happens
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Richard again tells us the real meaning of this list:

"there is so much to read - we relyon reports..."

rmc
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:59:09 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Stephen Vincent 
Subject:      Art/Poets/50's San Francisco
In-Reply-To:  
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A quick note for anyone within range or visiting San Francisco.
Paule Anglim Gallery(15 Geary St.) has a current show of works by Jess
(Robert Duncan's partner) - including both collages and paintings.
The California Historical Society has a wonderful show(curated by the Poetr=
y
Center's Director Steve Dickinson)  of works(photographs, paintings,
collages etc.) by artists associated with poets - and some poets who paint,
etc.=20

Both wonderful and related shows for a variety of reasons. Of the high
points - at least for me - is a visual and felt sense of the dynamics, the
conversation going on among artists and poets of the late fifties (Duncan,
Jess, Bruce Connor, R Bladen, Fields(?), etc.) One can sense the level of
argument, collaboration and camaraderie. The varying focus on nature and
urban vernacular  versus the domestic and autre world of dreams, s=E9ance,
tarot, medieval and folk literatures. It's all very rich and riding an
underground world in the process of becoming visible.

Norma Cole's recreation of a Library circa 1959 is brilliant and gives the
period context a working view - perhaps not too dissimilar from Robert
Duncan's space and materials, let alone those of many others of the time
(let alone those among in the Fifties who were at small liberal arts
colleges then shoulder deep in the "Great Books" craze!)

Stephen Vi
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com

=20

------ End of Forwarded Message
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:19:42 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Irving Weiss 
Subject:      Who wrote this?
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Does anyone know who wrote a poem containing the following lines, more or
less as in my faulty German:

Und nun ist kommen der krieg, der krieg
(repeat three times?)
wer wilt nun k=FCssen
mein weisses leib?

Comes from WWI period and I vaguely remember seeing it in connection with
something about Joyce.

Irving Weiss
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:38:14 -0500
Reply-To:     az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Rob McLennan 
Subject:      George Bowering
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

currently looking for poetry, fiction & non-fiction for an issue of John
Tranter's Jacket magazine to focus on the Vancouver writer George Bowering.

The issue will be (eventually) up at
http://www.jacketmagazine.com/28/index.html

Check out the Jacket magazine styleguide at:
http://jacketmagazine.com/styleguide.html

Send pieces to me at rob_mclennan@hotmail.com &, if they work, I will
forward them on. Jacket magazine reserves the right to veto, so even if I
like & accept its not a guarantee (but he says he hardly ever uses that).

the issue is slated to appear October 2005; obviously ill need to get
pieces well before that. query first on critical pieces, thanks.

rob mclennan, Ottawa


--
poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics
(Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press
fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon)     ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0
www.track0.com/rob_mclennan   *         http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:06:18 -0500
Reply-To:     webmaster@newhampshirereview.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "Webmaster, New Hampshire Review"
              
Organization: The New Hampshire Review
Subject:      Call for Submissions - The New Hampshire Review
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*Call for Submissions*

The New Hampshire Review is seeking poets, artists, political essayists,
and book reviewers to help launch our new quarterly journal of poetry
and politics. We are looking for work which contemplates the human
condition in fresh, meaningful, and interesting ways. Submissions should
aim to reach an intelligent, well-read audience.

Our guidelines are available at:
http://www.newhampshirereview.com/submission_guidelines.htm

We invite poets and publishers who would like their books to be
considered for review to send materials to the Review Editor at P.O. Box
323, Nashua, NH 03061-0322.

If you would like to be notified by email when the first issue is
available, please join our mailing list at:
http://www.newhampshirereview.com/mailinglist.htm

We look forward to receiving your submissions!

Virginia M. Heatter
Editor-in-Chief

Seth D. Abramson
Poetry & Politics Editor

The New Hampshire Review
P.O. Box 323
Nashua, NH 03061-0322
www.newhampshirereview.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:43:40 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         mIEKAL aND 
Subject:      Re: George Bowering
In-Reply-To:  <20050119203814.702DE420D6@smeagol.ncf.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
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who is he, anyway?

On Jan 19, 2005, at 2:38 PM, Rob McLennan wrote:

> currently looking for poetry, fiction & non-fiction for an issue of
> John
> Tranter's Jacket magazine to focus on the Vancouver writer George
> Bowering.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:50:53 -0500
Reply-To:     az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Rob McLennan 
Subject:      Re: George Bowering
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

thinking if you dont know, then you probably wont be the one to be sending
me work. canadas first parliamentary poet laureate, hes published 60
books, including poetry, fiction, young adult fiction, history, lit essays,
etcetcetcetc.

some info can be found at
http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/faculties/HUM/ENGL/canada/poet/g_bowering.htm
or
http://www.library.utoronto.ca/canpoetry/bowering/
or
http://www.chbooks.com/tech/catalogue.cgi?&t=baseball
or
www.talonbooks.com
or
http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/2004/2004_GBowering.htm

or just ask him yourself. hes on the list here somewhere.
rob


 > >who is he, anyway? >
>On Jan 19, 2005, at 2:38 PM, Rob McLennan wrote:
>
>> currently looking for poetry, fiction & non-fiction for an issue of
>> John
>> Tranter's Jacket magazine to focus on the Vancouver writer George
>> Bowering.
>
>

--
poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics
(Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press
fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon)     ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0
www.track0.com/rob_mclennan   *         http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:32:49 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         RevDest@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: Architecture and Philosophy conference
Comments: To: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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From: Madeline Gins
Please Post.

ARAKAWA & GINS
ARCHITECTURE AND PHILOSOPHY
CONFERENCE
University of PariS X =E2=80=93 Nanterre

September 30th =E2=80=93 October 1st, 2005

Organised by the Th=C3=A9orie de la lecture / Lecture de la th=C3=A9orie sem=
inar, as=20
part of the CREA research group


CALL FOR PAPERS


It is increasingly clear that the work of Madeline Gins and Arakawa, both as=
=20
architectural theorists and as philosophers of the body in its architectural=
=20
surrounds is of considerable importance. The journal Interfaces has devoted=20=
a=20
double issue to their work. Their latest book, Architectural Body, has been=20
translated into several languages, including French.=20

The Th=C3=A9orie de la lecture/ Lecture de la th=C3=A9orie seminar wishes to=
 organize=20
an international meeting devoted to Architectural Body: the philosophical,=20
architectural and poetic aspects of the book will be envisaged. The importan=
ce of=20
the philosophical project that underlies it will be celebrated. The aim is t=
o=20
enable all the scholars interested in the work of Gins and Arakawa to gather=
=20
and exchange views. Madeline Gins and Arakawa will attend the conference and=
=20
will take an active part in the proceedings.=20

Proposals (300 words) to be addressed to Fran=C3=A7oise Kral,=20
francoise.kral@u-paris10.fr=20
by April 30th 2005.
    F. Kral, J.J. Lecercle, organisers.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:53:35 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "Craig, Ray" 
Subject:      Inquiry into Loss: Revisited
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poems, recent postings:


Inquiry into Loss: Revisited
posted 1/18

Amputee injures on rabbit
posted 1/16

Erection with a reasonable length
posted 1/12

Else's mouth
posted 1/11

punish horse, punish horse, unattended corpse
posted 1/10

We were often deceived by rabbit clinging to dresser
posted 1/7

Female Criminals
posted 12/28

Click Quiz: N + & Anyone
posted 12/28

Smear Elavator Bath on his lips
posted 12/28

What are you going to do when she walk naked?
posted 12/28

As before
posted 12/27

Female Criminals: Version Two
posted 12/27

=20
http://www.pressflat.blogspot.com


Thanks for visiting.

Ray Craig
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:38:54 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mary Jo Malo 
Subject:      Poetry as a Foreign Language
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It's no secret that I enjoy Dalachinsky's poetry, but I admit there are
times when his words are obscure. And oh drat, I might have to read them more
than once, because some of his pomes are puzzle-like, and I might not want a
challenge. T.S. Eliot said that poetry should always include common, indeed
almost immortal, language so that the poem's meaning will be preserved  as long as
possible, through generations and translations, if we're  lucky.

What do you think? And in this regard here is an interesting paper which
suggests that poetry-making is similar to learning a second language.

_http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/april98/kelen.htm_
(http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/april98/kelen.htm)

MaryJo
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:38:28 +1300
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "richard.tylr" 
Subject:      Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 vision
              Investigates
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Lawrence

I don't smoke and I have never used marijuana. OK I was racing and pumping
with anger at the injustices done over there when I wrote that and off
course I don't like to see people killed - white or black - Iraqi or
otherwise  BUT the Iraqi liberation fighters have to struggle by whatever
means - the loss of their land by an invading force to them is the loss of
their life - imagine if the US had been invaded in WWll by the Japs - now
there would be some crawlers who cooperated with them - but a patriotic
American -and I mean a true patriot - a courageous patriot  - would join in
a resistance against that enemy - the object being to drive that invader out
of the US - now imagine also the US had not been particularly well armed as
it was in the 1940s and is now - then the resistance fighters in the US
could well- would in fact  employ ANY means to destroy the enemy

Mao Tse Tung used this method - he would encourage or entice the Japanese
further into guerrilla territory then they would secretly surround the
Japanese soldiers - and throw fire crackers at them - unnerve them, or they
would just charge at 4 am and they would usually kill EVERY JAP and take
their weapons - so there was a gain - a small gain - but a gain -

They won..they beat the Japanese before the US  Imperialists could get in
there and take China...but that's another story  - you will find that the
freedom fighters in Iraq are using similar techniques  - they will use
suicide bombs/ambushes /they will tunnel though the sand under US bases and
kill hundreds of young soldiers /they will kill men women children -
anything to disrupt/anyone who cooperates or is in the way is a
tagret -anyone - - it has to happen/ they must win - it is a fight for their
independence as than US fought the British - anything to rid their country
of a foreign alien culture and a fascist invader - toting guns and looking
like Darth Vaders  from one of the most psychotic and sick nations on God's
earth -anyone in Iraq who cooperates with US is a traitor and deserves death
!! Or worse - humiliation.  Nothing else ...now suicide bombing isn't
necessarily the best method as one of your soldiers (freedom fighters)
dies - that is a loss of one - but if you can kill a greater number of the
invaders or their collaborators that is a gain

I dont care if you think I am sick - and I'm not interested in what is on
Silliman's Blog (well I am  - I am intersted i his poetics - he very bright
guy  -- and a great poet -lo l- dont want to throw the baby out iwth
bathwater !!) (I do admire his poetry - his work but not his politics) he
was all for invading Afghanistan - he and Perloff - and Antin - I think he
called the Arabs/Moslems whoever etc rats (that sounds bizzare maybe Antin
was being ironic or something - we all say things...) - you can look back to
2001 on the List  when 9/11 happened (as I aalso admire especially Antin;s
talk poems and Perloff's critical writings -great writing I think): But look
at this it was in a local mag called Brief in NZ:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------
Scott:  In your China poems you sometimes seem to look back at the New
Zealand natural landscape with affection.

Hamish:  For me, landscape is always something which is inanimate. And it is
usually malign...remember, I moved about in China itself, moved from the
sticks to the coast and took jobs teaching English, without the literature
thing. Finished my Masters' thesis off in China.

Scott: Bruce Andrews?

Hamish:  Bruce Andrews.

Scott:  What'd you end up thinking about his work? It might not have been so
bad studying a poet of dissonance and disjunction in such an alien
environment.

Hamish:  Well, Andrews is working with the violence and dissonance of
American society. Social breakdown, breakdowns in communication. Often he
works by writing down phrases he hears, overhears, and tries to shape them,
relate them, without necessarily making 'sense'. The question is whether he
is not simply reproducing the violence that gives him his material...The
Language poets offer us a whole range of models, formal models, but I don't
see the need to accept the programme, to buy the whole package. Take what
you can use. I particularly like Susan Howe.

Scott:  I agree with that attitude. Some of the critical writing of Ron
Silliman, for instance, is incredibly dogmatic. He almost outlaws everything
except his 'New Sentence'. A particular form is fetishised as oppositional,
subversive yadaya, but the impact of any literary form always depends on
context. After a few books of Silliman's I felt that a rhymed sonnet would
be more subversive than another 'new' sentence. And of course the only
people who were using the new revolutionary formula happened to live in the
richest societies in the world. So the form was imperiocentric.

Hamish:  I can't comment on Silliman, but Andrews has a solid background in
Marxism, political economy. He's hardcore. That's one of the things that
makes him interesting...but Silliman, I've never been that into him...a bit
dry?

Scott:  I thought the bankruptcy of Silliman and one or two others - David
Antin and Marjorie Perloff are names that come to mind - was shown after S
11, when they suddenly morphed into unpaid military advisors to George
Dubya.

Hamish:  Really? On the EPC list? I haven't checked that for years...

Scott:  If you were against the invasion of Afghanistan Silliman called you
an appeaser. The enemy was Islamofascism. Antin actually talked about rats,
and having to do an extermination job...understandable responses from
ordinary Americans, maybe, but not quite what you'd expect from the
Patriachs of the Oppositional Word.

Hamish:  Most of the Chinese that I talked to had little sympathy with the
US after S 11. In fact many were happy. They saw it as the US getting paid
back a little for what it's done so often. If the US ever invades China, it
will make Iraq look like a cakewalk. The Chinese would just run out of their
homes and fight the US troops, with anything they've got. Forks and knives
off the table if they had nothing else. They hate America.

Scott:  You've written academic or semi-academic stuff on other people?

Hamish:  Leigh Davis, a couple of pieces, the second of which takes issue
with the commodification of language in his work...I'm keen on Joanna Paul
and have written a bit on her. I'm interested in anyone who's experimenting
with language in a disciplined manner. Innovative but also crafted work.

Scott:  Do you value craft above inspiration, or vice versa, or is the
opposition too old-fashioned to be bothered about?

Hamish:  Inspiration is a craft. Next question.

Scott:  I'm running out. Jack, do you want to ask a question?

Jack:  I'm telling an anecdote from Seinfeld. You don't want it on tape.

Scott:  Are you a Beatles man or an Elvis man?

Hamish:  Beatles man. That opposition is certainly not outdated. Elvis is
deeply unchoice.

Scott:  Favourite Beatles song?

Hamish: 'She's So Heavy'.

Scott: If you could have dinner with any person living or dead, who would it
be?

Hamish:  Curnow.

Scott:  Wystan? Why don't you ring him up and ask him out to the Steak
House -

Hamish: No, you fool! Allen! Allen Curnow! Curnow the elder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
OK - my  post - the one you are criticising - was full of rhetoric but that
si what is going on  - rhetoric versus rhetoric - of course  "my heart leaps
with joy " was- well it was calculated for its Wordsworthian hints etc -

But I know that Bob Dylan was opposed to war - that's good - I like Ron
Silliman and his work:a and I admire a lot of the Langpos stuff -font get me
wrong I also - confiteo ! - said wasn't not against eth US people (Or the
British, Australian, New Zealand (as we are involved don't you worry NZ is
right in their with the US - the Govt is I mean) - Scott is maybe a bit
unfair on Ron above - but we all have our views of things.   Ron knows my
views teres matter - started out in 2001 with as a call to exterminate all
the Arabs !! I was vert angry that NY had been attacked  -lol - but then I
changed .....
OK maybe I was angry (in the post you criticised - you have a right to  - I
take your point on Dylan etc (yes  a lot of people are being used here - but
"A revolution is not a tea party." - Mao Tse Tung - and it is maybe silly to
be angry  - but I don't like to see weak nations (or any nations) illegally
invaded - 10.000 civilians murdered - - and then all this hypocrisy about
democracy - democracy  - US and NZ style I oppose: but that's my view - I
don't believe in democracy it is total crap - but that's only my view - I do
believe in independence for Iraq., Afghanistan and Palestine and Diego
Garcia etc

This war in Iraq is brutal and the freedom fighters have to become hard-
merciless -pitiless - the weak the squeamish or the frightened get killed
off [[ I would myself probably get killed off - I dont want to - or ever
have to kill anyone - I have never used a gun - even in hunting mad NZ - am
not a fighter per se/ notinto violicne - very nervous and some time a
frightened person - I concede - but this is theory...lol...we are talking
self defence here by a nation ]] and  the hard core of true revolutionaries
survive - ready always to die - for it is better to die free than live as a
slave.

But read this:

Hamish:  Most of the Chinese that I talked to had little sympathy with the
US after S 11. In fact many were happy. They saw it as the US getting paid
back a little for what it's done so often. If the US ever invades China, it
will make Iraq look like a cakewalk. The Chinese would just run out of their
homes and fight the US troops, with anything they've got. Forks and knives
off the table if they had nothing else. They hate America.

"They hate America"  - don't forget that - believe in your heart and
soul -memorise it....

Richard Taylor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Sawyer" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:55 AM
Subject: Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 vision
Investigates


> Hey richard.tylr
>
> I don't know what you're smoking in New Zealand but
> you need to take a break
>
> in reference to YOUR comment  "my heart leaps with joy when I see
> suicide bombs gong off to disrupt
> that monstrous hypocrisy"     what kind of sick shit is that
>
> For the record that's the insane thinking that's helping to demonize
> all opposing viewpoints
> to this administration       I don't want to be lumped in with you
>
> violence is the problem not the solution
>
> the taking of any life is a crime          and I guess since I've read
> Silliman's blog entry lately    here's
> a little lesson for you
>
> "A South politician preaches to the poor white man,
> "You got more than the blacks, don't complain.
> You're better than them, you been born with white skin," they explain.
> And the Negro's name
> Is used it is plain
> For the politician's gain
> As he rises to fame
> And the poor white remains
> On the caboose of the train
> But it ain't him to blame
> He's only a pawn in their game."
>
> --Only a Pawn in Their Game, Bob Dylan
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:37:42 +1100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alison Croggon 
Subject:      Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 vision
              Investigates
In-Reply-To:  <001001c4fe7f$faf3cd40$d15636d2@computer>
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> This war in Iraq is brutal and the freedom fighters have to become hard-
> merciless -pitiless - the weak the squeamish or the frightened get killed

You seem to have an unpleasant relish at this prospect.

Richard, rhetoric gets people killed, so it's no excuse saying "it's only
rhetoric". Your comments are ugly, but I won't go on about that, apart from
agreeing with Lawrence Sawyer that all they achieve is helping the Bushites=
.
They're also ignorant: the Iraqi resistance is hardly a single entity.  It'=
s
not simple, and there's agendas beyond "self defence of a nation" happening
there and many internal conflicts.  Sunni extremists are busy bombing Shias=
,
who happen to be the majority population; Sistani, the most influential Shi=
a
cleric, was notably quiet on the razing of Falluja late last year.

Below an interesting December commentary from Empire Notes, which hopefully
will inflect your responses a little more subtly.  Whether you agree with
his analysis or not, he's painting a rather complicated picture of what's
going on there.  You seem to fit attitude 2.

http://www.empirenotes.org/december04.html#20dec041



Thinking Beyond the Comfort Zone: Failures of the Iraqi Resistance

Here's my latest commentary for Uprising Radio :

Here=B9s the second of my series on Thinking Beyond the Comfort Zone. The
first evaluated the latest assault on Fallujah as a victory for the United
States. Here I=B9ll analyze one of the reasons for that victory -- the
politics of the Iraqi resistance.

There are several attitudes toward the resistance that one finds among the
antiwar left:=20

1. Reject them and express support for marginal secular =B3civil society=B2
groups that oppose the occupation.
2. Express unconditional adulation for them as opponents of U.S.
imperialism.=20
3. Ignore them as much as possible while expressing opposition to the
occupation.=20

The third option seems most common. But hiding our heads in the sand hardly
helps to create an informed left that understands the world in order to
change it.=20

It=B9s long been my evaluation that most of the Iraqi armed resistance has
virtually no political program. Parts of it are extremely Islamist and so
have an agenda of beating wine-sellers and forcing women, whether Muslim or
not, to wear the hijab; parts of it, seemingly foreign in inspiration but
only partly foreign in composition, have the goal of killing Shi=B9a. Moqtada
al-Sadr=B9s Mahdi Army has the stated goal of introducing an Islamic
theocracy. Most of the resistance has the goal of driving the foreign
occupiers out; other parts have the goal of keeping them bogged down in
Iraq. Clearly, those whose primary goal is sectarian war of Shi=B9a against
Sunni are helping the occupation, since the growing gulf between the two
communities is the primary political asset the occupiers have.

But beyond these basic elements, there is no larger program. Gerard
Chaliand, chronicler of revolutionary guerrilla movements around the world,
wrote of the Afghan mujaheddin in 1980 that they were the only guerrillas h=
e
had seen with no social programs =AD no village chicken cooperative, no
literacy program, etc. The Iraqi resistance is the same, very much unlike
Hamas or Hezbollah.

Ever since the events of April, it=B9s been my analysis that the best strateg=
y
for the U.S. military to defeat the resistance is not to fight them. When
reacting to a U.S. assault, they occasionally gain a clear political
purpose, but when the assault is over that purpose is quickly lost.

Such a way of thinking is so utterly foreign to the U.S. military that ther=
e
was no way it would be adopted consciously. But it was adopted in Fallujah
by accident. After the failure of the April assault, the Bush administratio=
n
wanted to wait until after the elections=AD and so we saw six months of the
Islamic Republic of Fallujah. During this time, many people grew heartily
tired of the dictatorial ways of much of the resistance.

Most of all, the natives got to see that being ruled by the mujaheddin, eve=
n
though the majority were also indigenous to the town, did nothing for them.
They didn=B9t want the November assault, but they did desert the town in
droves; very much unlike April, the majority of Fallujans did not identify
with the resistance.

Another great failure of the Sunni-based resistance is that it has not
unequivocally condemned the massive sectarian anti-Shi=B9a violence being don=
e
by groups like Zarqawi=B9s, the latest incident being bombings in the Shi=B9a
holy cities of Najaf and Karbala killing over 60.

Any guerrilla war of a Third World people against a First World military
force is primarily a political battle. Right now in Iraq, due in part to it=
s
massive political deficiencies, the resistance cannot win. Whether the
United States can win is still an open question.

In order for resistance to the occupation to have any chance, it must first
renounce sectarian violence and pointless terrorism like kidnapping and
killing random foreigners, in order to build some basis for Iraqi unity.
Second, it must recognize that the current struggle has no way to involve
the ordinary Iraqi; indeed, most Shi=B9a are now being told by Sistani that
the best way to oppose the occupation is to vote in the election. Mass
action, like the gatherings that broke through the barricades around
Fallujah in April or the protest last February that forced the United State=
s
to agree to elections, are an essential component of a serious strategy to
end the occupation.




Alison Croggon

Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
Editor, Masthead:  http://masthead.net.au
Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:02:00 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Joe Brennan 
Subject:      Check out The Assassinated Press
Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA
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 Click here: The Assassinated Press

Lawsuit Filed Against George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney
By DOUG WALLACE


They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.

".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in
the
sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful
language
of power.  There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or
hypocritical,
whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks.  The dominating
impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed
good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured

forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter
house.
One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first
giving
free reign to this hubbub of voices...."
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:11:47 -0500
Reply-To:     richard.j.newman@verizon.net
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Jeffrey Newman 
Subject:      Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 vision
              Investigates
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In response to Richard Taylor, who wrote:

>>they will use suicide bombs/ambushes /they will tunnel though the sand
under US bases and kill hundreds of young soldiers /they will kill men women
children - anything to disrupt/anyone who cooperates or is in the way is a
tagret -anyone - - it has to happen/ they must win - it is a fight for their
independence as than US fought the British - anything to rid their country
of a foreign alien culture and a fascist invader - toting guns and looking
like Darth Vaders  from one of the most psychotic and sick nations on God's
earth -anyone in Iraq who cooperates with US is a traitor and deserves death
!! Or worse - humiliation.  Nothing else....<<

Alison Croggon wrote:

>>It's not simple, and there's agendas beyond "self defence of a nation"
happening there and many internal conflicts.  Sunni extremists are busy
bombing Shias, who happen to be the majority population; Sistani, the most
influential Shia cleric, was notably quiet on the razing of Falluja late
last year.<<

It's worth pointing out that one can be categorically opposed to the US
occupation and opposed to one or more of the groups that is fighting that
occupation on the grounds that the group's agenda is itself, on its own
terms, questionable. Not only does it romanticize the meaning of military
occupation, what it means to be an occupied people, to assume that all those
who fight against the occupation are allies at some level that transcends
both the differences between them and the moral and ethical content of their
agenda(s) on its/their own terms. It also allows those of us who are not
there, in the conflict, to opt out of dealing with the complexities of the
reality on the ground. Case in point: One can believe categorically that
Israel should withdraw from the occupied territories; one can understand the
logic behind/inevitability of suicide bombers as a means of fighting the
occupation--and one might even support them--but that does not mean that all
the groups that employ suicide bombing as a method of resistance are equally
deserving of that understanding and support. Hamas has stated plainly not
only that it's goal is the elimination of Israel, but also that it intends
to establish a Muslim theocracy in the land that is now Israel and
Palestine. (I may have the specifics of the geography wrong--it's been a
while since I looked at Hamas' charter--but the general point is still the
same.) These are two goals that should give anyone pause because they mean
that Hamas' interest is not Palestinian self-determination; it is not
freedom and secular democracy. Their goal is a religiously nationalistic
one--their charter reads spookily like statemtents of Zionist purpose that I
have read elsewhere--and so it actually obscures a very difficult reality to
suggest that all Palestinian resistance to the Israeli occupation is freedom
fighting. The same is true about making those kinds of statements about
those in Iraq who are fighting the US occupation.

Rich Newman
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 00:02:47 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      rapture rapture rapture
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rapture rapture rapture
photos from our trip number eight hollow road
photos from our trip number eight hollow road
it's near osage and scott's run and mourgantown and scott's run
http://www.asondheim.org/wvetc.mov
i want to model this how to model this
suppose i impourt not the coourdinates but the images
so then transfourm and use bump maps
the bump maps are raised and raised some moure like the dead
the trailers swell from the backdrop in landscaping in bryce
the swellings are punctured and one can enter through them
this can be done in blender so then you're on the other side
rapture rapture rapture
there should be tables and stills from poser there
one could do anything one wants but the camera is imperturbable
by which i mean the camera does what it wants dragging you along
so you can move back and fourth from swelling to swelling
of course swelling equals dwelling as if you hung out a shingle
our a name four the place
meanwhile we didn't go far enough our back enough
to find the mine itself our the piles inherited from the mine
i might suggest you go to http://www.appalachian-center.org/
which is further south but then some is everywhere
i hadn't heard the term mountain-topping befoure
the hollows are filled in from the tops everything is buried
twelve-hundred miles of streams have disappeared the rest run ourange
you want to dig them out but instead you enter the swellings
there are poser figures in the trailers yours four the taking
you can do what you want but the camera is imperturbable
it sits there on its haunches while a certain hunger dominates
the hunger of the hunter four the prey four example
the hunger of the cannibal god four its creatures four example
all the details are there in the swellings and distourted tableaus
men and women are taken apart their bodies broken things
our brutalized our accessible things our things of infinite desire
one of them moves one of the mannequins one of the poser stills
just the slightest movement it's alive it answers back
on the soundtrack a scraping
something has happened to the soundtrack suddenly this noise
it's almost as if it isn't there but something is talking to you
our someone is talking to you
all this in the swelling of the trailer in the photographs
rapture rapture rapture
which will be rendered in bryce and poser and blender and gimp
which will be coloured and textured in photoshop and gimp and bryce
which will be animated in bvh and linux and poser and premiere
which will be saved in machinema our avi our quicktime our blender
which will be played in media our quicktime
while you enter the swelling and caress the slightest moving creature
oh creature you might say to yourself oh creature oh creature
the man our woman creature naked and distourted as god created
this is a dream which will be done in many applications
and then will become moure real than real and always there four you
and always always there four you and moure real and moure real four you
and always there four you and four you there


__
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 00:02:39 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      The Inauguration
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The Inauguration

I never expected the inauguration to be a bloodbath.
The emperor was covered with it, just before he went down.
His hordes were his minions and were trampled with it.
I felt I shouldn't cheer the wrack and ruin, even of an evil man.
I was unable to hide the joy I felt at his demise.
His ruined body was thrown back to the devastated crowed.
The devastating crowd got there first and crowed.
It was cathartic, I tell you, cathartic.
The end of an evil man brought happiness to my eyes.
Killings were needed to end the killings.
Killings here stopped the killings there.
For a second the world seemed teetering on this happiness.
Humanity was at its best fighting violence with violence.
If you are new and come along, beware and do your best.
You may yet find your inauguration full of kindly smiles.


_
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:15:31 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      Re: rapture rapture rapture
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
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the idea of an email and a movie reminds me a bit of dinner and a movie. the
movies are difficult though, alan, to view because you're not streaming
them. why don't you provide links not to .mov files but to .html files that
have the .mov files embedded and streaming? that can't be terribly hard to
do. doron golan does that superbly well and i actually look forward to his
movie posts on rhizome. have a look at how he does it; view the source of
the html files. also, your .mov files are usually very long for what they
do. the last movie consists of stills. so you probably send about a megabyte
of info for one still whereas it's really about 30kb worth. this is ok if
the movie is streaming, i guess (as long as people have cablemodem or dsl).

like i said, the idea of an email and a movie i like, and this text and this
email are kind of interesting together, but i usually couldn't be bothered
to read the email or watch the movie because too many times your movies take
forever to download and they don't start until they're finished downloading
and you don't give any indication of how big the download is etc etc.

ja
http://vispo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:20:44 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter....
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the mind
contracts

white
pointed

mind
frieze

'gentle
men

start
yr

engines'


dawn..on c'est day in yr life..drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 00:45:35 +1300
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "richard.tylr" 
Subject:      Re: Poetry as a Foreign Language
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Mary

I personlly dont - I cant work a lot of poetry out - (are we ever or always
meant to ?)  and what I say below is probably mixed up  -and you may know a
lot of it  - but here is my response -

Obscurity or difficulty is a tactic or a methodology in Modernist and
Postmodernist poetry - Steve has a kind of jazzy slangy way and a quite
brilliant way with phrases and language - he is not a langpo per se but has
some similarities - the langpos -(if they can be considered as one group or
movement) had/have a more complex agenda - they used Radical Artifice (title
of a book by M Perloff - very good book ) - they put the signifier in a
central place and or they exploded the language into fragments  - see Steve
McCaffery - but that poetry is or feeds on ambiguity is written about as far
back as Cleanth Brooks in "The Well Wrought Urn"
more recent is Charles Bernstein's "A Poetics" - sometimes I have more
difficulty with the so-called modernist poets - eg in NZ sometimes cant
"figure out " what eg Vincent O'Suullivan is saying (he is a great writer I
feel)  - in his "logical meaning" - the puzzle - as you say - but the
language poets for example are wanting their readers to make coneptual leaps
etc (they dont neccesarily have "logical verbal jig saw puzzles" or complex
metaphorical things to "work out")   -not neccesary to work everything
out -as in say a  poem by Elizabeth Bishop - although its dubious one can
ever "work everything out" by her or by any poet - each individual in fact
brings a different reaction and experience to a poem - the langauge and some
more recent "radical" poets  -   etc are fragementing -or they may use that
as a tactic etc so that while there are still semantic links - no writing is
really meaningless - its not so easy to see the 'message' - (it was said I
believe that Celan "put messages in bottles" ) or ideational links etc -
another good writer on difficulty is George Steiner - his "analysis " of
"dificulty" is interesting and in fact Mark Scroggins uses it in his book
about Zukofsky - there is another level of poetry at is very close to the
condition of music and - while it maybe can be "analysed" one needs really
to let it work on one  - this inspirational or intuitive or 'symbolist'
strand goes through all poetry but a strong example is Mallarme
tc  -another John Ashbery (although the NY poets added irony to surrealism
and other techniques ( a 'true surealist" would perhaps be one example of a
writer trying to approach "the pure music of poetry"  - and the concept of
Ostranie  (the concept of amking the poem or phrases strange - is another
direction (or angle) -even  modernist poets employ strangeness/ambiguity -
magic - if you like.

I like Steve's frenetic style - if I wanted to write a book about his work I
would probably link up a lot of the stuff in his work but at certain levels
I just let such poetry "work on me " - it is more problematic with say, Alan
Sondheim,  as one wants to know his raison d'etre etc and his method -while
individual poems can work directly on me - in his case the greater picture
is like a -or seems to be - like  - a huge puzzle - a puzzle possibly never
to be "solved" but to for each reader to get things from it and  for some to
see something of the whole picture if they ever have the energy and the
time -just as if someone had time to "work out" Finnegan's Wake  - but I
would rather just listen to someone  read it -an Irishman reading it -heard
Joyce once reading Anna Livia PLurabele on the radio -that  brought it
alive - his voice - read somewhere Joyce suggested people treat Finnegan's
Wake as a "huge poem" -worked out in detail before hand but..well nothing is
totally determined  (contrast with the  Stein of "Stanzas
in Meditation" )


BTW I am guessing but like me Steve isnt a good "trypist" and hence  - in
the process of writing he develops phrases and ways of talking - somewhat
conditioned by the cyberspeak we use (or misuse) - short cuts and accidental
and deliberate neologisms - informed by his fasicnation for jazz - are
invented by his mispelling of words etc (deliberate or other) - his voice -
the voice of the street etc

Some pennies from me - I find most  poetry difficult

Ricard Taylor

 PS  Eliot was  right - somewhat - what is the "meaning" of Blakes "Tyger"?
It is in its magic and its music - but there are symobolic things there if
you want them.... What is the Meaning of Meaning ? -( a book by I A
Richards)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Jo Malo" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 11:38 AM
Subject: Poetry as a Foreign Language


> It's no secret that I enjoy Dalachinsky's poetry, but I admit there are
> times when his words are obscure. And oh drat, I might have to read them
more
> than once, because some of his pomes are puzzle-like, and I might not want
a
> challenge. T.S. Eliot said that poetry should always include common,
indeed
> almost immortal, language so that the poem's meaning will be preserved  as
long as
> possible, through generations and translations, if we're  lucky.
>
> What do you think? And in this regard here is an interesting paper which
> suggests that poetry-making is similar to learning a second language.
>
> _http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/april98/kelen.htm_
> (http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/april98/kelen.htm)
>
> MaryJo
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:57:59 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mary Jo Malo 
Subject:      Poetry as a Second Language
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Richard,

Steve so very warmly assures me that "it's ok not to understand some of my
words...they are probably those that are made up on the spot and will never see
 the light of day...again some are simply words spelled backward and some
made-up...send me a list and i'll tell ya...but sure no need to struggle with
the pome...if you don't get it that's ok"

Of course you very articulately explained what I had forgotten, that  jazz
poets, especially in the fine tradition of the Beats like Kerouac, always  made
up cool spontaneous words and refused to correct typos according  to the
spontaneous 'discipline'. I've listened to lots of Steve's recorded  poetry, and
you really need to hear him rather than read him. He's actually not  frenetic,
more melodious and flowing, quite liquid, flugent. Now  Vernon, you could
describe his poetry as frenetic, and  wonderfully so. Neither of them are radically
deconstructionist, and I  appreciate that, because my brain works randomly
enough. I just can't take the  challenge. I can 'look at' abstract art much more
easily than abstract  poetry. For me, words and communication in speaking and
writing can't be too  radical or they say nothing except for the writer.
That's just my taste,  however, and I know many will disagree.

I enjoy different styles of poetry, and if I may mix  metaphors, quickies can
be as nice as marathons. Every person-poet has both  unique meaning and
unique expression. When you read/hear several  pieces by a particular poet, you get
it and them. You're right about poets  themselves not always knowing what
they're writing and how you have to allow it  to work on you.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 05:07:46 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      =?iso-8859-1?Q?PixelByPixel:_Durieu_and_Birg=E9?=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Here is an excellent work of interactive audio/"algorithmic poetry". Move
the mouse by just a little. Occassionally click. Leave the mouse alone for a
while. Repeat till cooked.

PixelByPixel - 1700K
http://www.lecielestbleu.com/media/pixelbypixelframe.htm

"Algorithmic poetry by Frédéric Durieu.
Dynamic music by Jean-Jacques Birgé.
Co-conception Kristine Malden."

ja
http://vispo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:43:52 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Joe Brennan 
Subject:      Murderers Gather for Gala in Capitol
Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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 Click here: The Assassinated Press
http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/

Murderers Gather for Gala in Capitol:
Washington Closed Down for Elites' Private Celebrations:
Capital Weaves a Steel Trap for a Big Party:
Bush Suspends Toothless Constitution:
Fat Cats Plan to "Shake Their Ass" at the Rest of the Country:
Corporate Dump Trucks Line up at Treasury:
As Bumper Crop of Taxpayer Money Expected:
Cheney Said to Eat a Live Dog in Preparation for Speech:
By I. RABID JOHN and MICHAEL JERKOFFSKY

At Inauguration The Poor Protect The Rich In Unprecedented Show Of Servility:
Inauguration Security Called 'Riefenstahlian':
Lower Classes Don Their Uniforms And Prepare To Take A Bullet For Their
Betters:
Aside From Occasional Sop, Capitals Poor Form Ring Of Fodder To Shelter Rich:
Homeless Driven Out Of Town Like the Bonus Army
By YASO ADIODI



They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.

".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in
the
sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful
language
of power.  There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or
hypocritical,
whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks.  The dominating
impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed
good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured

forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter
house.
One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first
giving
free reign to this hubbub of voices...."
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:34:02 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Halvard Johnson 
Subject:      Re: Poetry as a Foreign Language
In-Reply-To:  <003601c4fee5$8e3c5120$e5f137d2@computer>
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Richard, if you're working out on poems, stop that right now
and get yourself to a gym. If they're not working out on you,
count that as a blessing.

Hal

{    Mary
{
{    I personlly dont - I cant work a lot of poetry out - (are we ever or always
{    meant to ?)  and what I say below is probably mixed up  -and you may know a
{    lot of it  - but here is my response -
{
{    Obscurity or difficulty is a tactic or a methodology in Modernist and
{    Postmodernist poetry - Steve has a kind of jazzy slangy way and a quite
{    brilliant way with phrases and language - he is not a langpo per se but has
{    some similarities - the langpos -(if they can be considered as one group or
{    movement) had/have a more complex agenda - they used Radical Artifice (title
{    of a book by M Perloff - very good book ) - they put the signifier in a
{    central place and or they exploded the language into fragments  - see Steve
{    McCaffery - but that poetry is or feeds on ambiguity is written about as far
{    back as Cleanth Brooks in "The Well Wrought Urn"
{    more recent is Charles Bernstein's "A Poetics" - sometimes I have more
{    difficulty with the so-called modernist poets - eg in NZ sometimes cant
{    "figure out " what eg Vincent O'Suullivan is saying (he is a great writer I
{    feel)  - in his "logical meaning" - the puzzle - as you say - but the
{    language poets for example are wanting their readers to make coneptual leaps
{    etc (they dont neccesarily have "logical verbal jig saw puzzles" or complex
{    metaphorical things to "work out")   -not neccesary to work everything
{    out -as in say a  poem by Elizabeth Bishop - although its dubious one can
{    ever "work everything out" by her or by any poet - each individual in fact
{    brings a different reaction and experience to a poem - the langauge and some
{    more recent "radical" poets  -   etc are fragementing -or they may use that
{    as a tactic etc so that while there are still semantic links - no writing is
{    really meaningless - its not so easy to see the 'message' - (it was said I
{    believe that Celan "put messages in bottles" ) or ideational links etc -
{    another good writer on difficulty is George Steiner - his "analysis " of
{    "dificulty" is interesting and in fact Mark Scroggins uses it in his book
{    about Zukofsky - there is another level of poetry at is very close to the
{    condition of music and - while it maybe can be "analysed" one needs really
{    to let it work on one  - this inspirational or intuitive or 'symbolist'
{    strand goes through all poetry but a strong example is Mallarme
{    tc  -another John Ashbery (although the NY poets added irony to surrealism
{    and other techniques ( a 'true surealist" would perhaps be one example of a
{    writer trying to approach "the pure music of poetry"  - and the concept of
{    Ostranie  (the concept of amking the poem or phrases strange - is another
{    direction (or angle) -even  modernist poets employ strangeness/ambiguity -
{    magic - if you like.
{
{    I like Steve's frenetic style - if I wanted to write a book about his work I
{    would probably link up a lot of the stuff in his work but at certain levels
{    I just let such poetry "work on me " - it is more problematic with say, Alan
{    Sondheim,  as one wants to know his raison d'etre etc and his method -while
{    individual poems can work directly on me - in his case the greater picture
{    is like a -or seems to be - like  - a huge puzzle - a puzzle possibly never
{    to be "solved" but to for each reader to get things from it and  for some to
{    see something of the whole picture if they ever have the energy and the
{    time -just as if someone had time to "work out" Finnegan's Wake  - but I
{    would rather just listen to someone  read it -an Irishman reading it -heard
{    Joyce once reading Anna Livia PLurabele on the radio -that  brought it
{    alive - his voice - read somewhere Joyce suggested people treat Finnegan's
{    Wake as a "huge poem" -worked out in detail before hand but..well nothing is
{    totally determined  (contrast with the  Stein of "Stanzas
{    in Meditation" )
{
{
{    BTW I am guessing but like me Steve isnt a good "trypist" and hence  - in
{    the process of writing he develops phrases and ways of talking - somewhat
{    conditioned by the cyberspeak we use (or misuse) - short cuts and accidental
{    and deliberate neologisms - informed by his fasicnation for jazz - are
{    invented by his mispelling of words etc (deliberate or other) - his voice -
{    the voice of the street etc
{
{    Some pennies from me - I find most  poetry difficult
{
{    Ricard Taylor
{
{     PS  Eliot was  right - somewhat - what is the "meaning" of Blakes "Tyger"?
{    It is in its magic and its music - but there are symobolic things there if
{    you want them.... What is the Meaning of Meaning ? -( a book by I A
{    Richards)
{
{    ----- Original Message -----
{    From: "Mary Jo Malo" 
{    To: 
{    Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 11:38 AM
{    Subject: Poetry as a Foreign Language
{
{
{    > It's no secret that I enjoy Dalachinsky's poetry, but I admit there are
{    > times when his words are obscure. And oh drat, I might have to read them
{    more
{    > than once, because some of his pomes are puzzle-like, and I might not want
{    a
{    > challenge. T.S. Eliot said that poetry should always include common,
{    indeed
{    > almost immortal, language so that the poem's meaning will be preserved  as
{    long as
{    > possible, through generations and translations, if we're  lucky.
{    >
{    > What do you think? And in this regard here is an interesting paper which
{    > suggests that poetry-making is similar to learning a second language.
{    >
{    > _http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/april98/kelen.htm_
{    > (http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/april98/kelen.htm)
{    >
{    > MaryJo
{    >
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:39:13 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Halvard Johnson 
Subject:      Poems by others:  James Wright, "A Lament for the Martyrs"
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A Lament for the Martyrs

   I am sitting in an outdoor cafe across the street from the
Coliseum. The noon is so brilliant that I have to wear my dark
glasses. You would think a Roman noon could lay even the
Coliseum wide open.
   But darknesses still foul the place and its hateful grandeur.
The Roman Chamber of Commerce and Betelgueze in
combine could gut the Coliseum by day or by night till the
ghost of Mussolini and the ghost of God turned blue in the
face, and light wouldn't mean a thing in that darkness. Cities
are times of day. Once Rome was noon. Do you get me? To
take a slow lazy walk with Quintus Horatius Flaccus at four
o'clock in the night was to become light. If you don't believe
me, I offer you a method of scientific verification. I lay you
eight to five that you will go blind if you take a walk at high
noon with the President of the United States. I love my
country for it's light. I love Rome because Horace lived there.
I am afraid of the dark. I am game to live with intelligent
sinners. Sometimes these days the Romans say that whatever
the Barbarians left behind was later sacked and raped by the
Barberinis, the noble family who needed the remnant marble
for their country palaces. I find them fair enough for me.
When I was a boy, the mayors of five towns in the Ohio
River Valley solved the practical problems of prohibition by
picking the purest and most perfect bootlegger between
Pittsburgh and Cincinnati to become Chairman of the
Committee for Liquor Control. I think it would be wicked
for me to wonder what the five mayors did with their cut in
private. All I know is that within a year after Milber s public
appointment to a legal office, a symphony orchestra
mysteriously appeared in one town, two spacious football
stadiums appeared in two other towns, the madame of the
cathouse in Wheeling was appointed a dollar-a-year man by
the Federal Government, and I lost an essay-contest whose
subject was the life and work of William Dean Howells, an
American author who was born in Martins Ferry, Ohio, for
Christ's sake, and whose books I had never even heard of,
much less read. (As I look back over the shadows of the years,
I confess that I have read one of his novels. I like him. He was
a good friend of Mark Twain.)
   But right now the Roman noon is so brilliant that it hurts
my eyes. ! I sip my cappuchino at a wobbly sidewalk table and
ponder the antiquities of my own childhood: the beautiful
river, that black ditch of horror; and the streetcars. Where have
they gone now, with their wicker seats that seemed to rattle
behind the dull headlights in the slow dusk, in summer where
everything in Ohio ran down and yet never quite stopped?
   Now, the Romans and the discovered Americans stroll blinded
in the Coliseum, deaf to the shadows the place never loses, even
at noon in Rome, that was for a little while one of the few noons.
   Some archaeologist gouged out the smooth dust floor of the
Coliseum to make it clean. The floor now is a careful revelation.
It is an intricate and intelligent series of ditches, and the sun
cannot reach them. They are the shadows of starved people who
did not even want to die. They were not even Jews.
   There is no way to get rid of the shadows of human beings
who could find God only in that last welcome of the creation,
the maws of tortured animals.
   Is that last best surest way to heaven the throat of the
hungry? If it is, God is very beautiful, if not very bright.
   Who are the hungry? What color is a hungry shadow?
   Even the noon sunlight in the Coliseum is the golden
shadow of a starved lion, the most beautiful of God's creatures
except maybe horses.

--James Wright

in *Unmuzzled Ox*, Vol. IV, No. 1, 1976



Hal

Halvard Johnson
===============
email: halvard@earthlink.net
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:00:05 -0500
Reply-To:     marcus@designerglass.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Marcus Bales 
Subject:      Re: Poetry as a Foreign Language
In-Reply-To:  <66.4ee194d8.2f203b7e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 19 Jan 2005 at 17:38, Mary Jo Malo wrote:
> What do you think? And in this regard here is an interesting paper
> which suggests that poetry-making is similar to learning a second
> language.
> http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/april98/kelen.htm
"...First and second language learners and students of poetry writing
all practise and develop their apprenticeship through dialogic
interaction with others (even where this dialogue has largely to take
place in the head of the individual and with dead people). All are,
we may say, apprentice meaning makers. They are testing limits to
find their way. The difference for the writer of poems is that this
apprenticing in language is his or her permanent condition of
practice, and undertaken in a material in which writers are generally
and for everyday purposes fluent; the language which they are
learning will permanently need to be new to them, in order to have
life, in order that is, to renew them and to be renewed by them...."

Well, it's just wrong on the face of it that "the" difference between
writers of poems and learners of languages is "his or her pemanent
condition of practice" -- or even that it's a significant difference.

Reading that article makes me think of the papers of 7th graders who
are just learning to use the encyclopedia. They are clearly clueless
about what they are cribbing from the source material, but they are
so earnest about it! This fellow clearly doesn't understand what he's
talking about, but he sure is earnest about it.

Marcus
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:26:42 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         sylvester pollet 
Subject:      Fiction/Creative Writing job, UMaine, Orono
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        This is for real--and it's likely we'll have a second similar
position to advertise soon, once it gets through final approval, so
stay tuned. You'll love it here! Today a foot of snow and classes
cancelled! Come play in the snow with the National Poetry Foundation,
Ben Friedlander, Steve Evans, Jennifer Moxley, me, lots of others.
Sylvester

>Dear colleagues,
>       Attached, and copied in below, please find the text of our ad
>for the fiction writing position we are filling now.  The ad is on
>the MLA Job Information List, and has been sent to the AWP job list.
>       Please send this forward to any venue where you know fiction
>writers will see it, and to individuals you think qualified and
>interesting.  We are trying to collect a pool of excellent
>applications as quickly as possible.
>
>Tenure-track position at Asst. Prof. level in creative
>writing=97fiction in University of Maine Department of English.
>Applicants should have a deep commitment to writing and be willing
>to shape and teach introductory, intermediate and advanced
>undergraduate and graduate creative writing courses. Successful
>applicant will collaborate in the evolving vision and direction of
>the department=92s creative writing concentration. We seek a fiction
>writer with strengths in one or more of these
>additional fields: new narrative forms, genre and cross-genre
>fiction, creative non-fiction, playwriting or screenwriting.  Our
>decision will be based upon finding the right combination of
>complementary strengths. Teaching experience, an MFA or PhD,
>and significant publication are essential.  Send letter of interest,
>curriculum vitae, and letters of recommendation to Search Committee,
>Department of English, 304 Neville Hall, University of Maine, Orono,
>ME 04469-5752.  Review of applications
>will begin February 1, 2005, and will continue until a suitable
>candidate is identified.  The University of Maine is an Equal
>Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer.
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Margo Lukens, Chair
>Department of English
>304 Neville Hall
>University of Maine
>Orono, ME 04469-5752
>
>(207) 581-3823     FAX (207) 581-3886
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:53:33 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Poetics List Administration 
Subject:      Fiction job @ University of Maine, Orono
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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Tenure-track position at Asst. Prof. level in creative writing—fiction
in University of Maine Department of English. Applicants should have a
deep commitment to writing and be willing to shape and teach
introductory, intermediate and advanced undergraduate and graduate
creative writing courses.

Successful applicant will collaborate in the evolving vision and
direction of the department’s creative writing concentration. We seek
a fiction writer with strengths in one or more of these additional
fields: new narrative forms, genre and cross-genre fiction, creative
non-fiction, playwriting or screenwriting.  Our decision will be based
upon finding the right combination of complementary strengths.
Teaching experience, an MFA or PhD, and significant publication are
essential.  Send letter of interest, curriculum vitae, and letters of
recommendation to Search Committee, Department of English, 304 Neville
Hall, University of Maine, Orono, ME 04469-5752.  Review of
applications will begin February 1, 2005, and will continue until a
suitable candidate is identified.  The University of Maine is an Equal
Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:11:34 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      Fwd: Bush's inaugural address exposed
Comments: To: reiner@cats.ucsc.edu, laurelreiner@aol.com,
          oconn001@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, damon1054@yahoo.com, francobe@aol.com,
          susanlannen@hotmail.com
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>From: John Landry 
>Subject: Bush's inaugural address exposed
>X-Seen-By: PureMessage
>
>Bush's inaugural address exposed
>"My promise to the American people: To cast a wide net for freedom,
>from the ancient ruins of Enron to the future ruins of Iran."
>
>- - - - - - - - - - - -
>By Joyce McGreevy
>
>
>
>Jan. 20, 2005  |  Thank you. Thank you, boys. Gentleman in the black
>robe over there to my right. Presidents Jimmy, Billy and Daddy.
>Distinguished check writers. And a shout-out to the American people, wherev=
er
>they may be.
>
>We've had us a time, haven't we? Delivered some swift kicks, both
>foreign and domestic. Took a evildoer out of a deep hole and secured our
>economy in its place. In Iraq, we retaliated in advance, and in Ohio, we
>never had to retally at all.
>
>Wherever we saw the environment, we took care of it. Barney ate fish
>out of a bucket on the Outdoor Channel, and I went to a town hall and
>shot me some fish in a oil barrel. I call that being a steward of the land
>before it can steward unto you. We put on a Clear Skies Act, so
>someday, if the environment rears its head again, your children and
>grandchildren will not have to look at that sort of thing.
>
>We took on education and won, passing the buck to a few good spokesmen
>and making it easier for a pretty swell bunch of mammon lovers for
>Jesus to get their hands on the rest. Because wherever two or more think
>tanks and charter schools is gathered in his name, so goes the agenda.
>Donor by donor, pawn by pawn, we're forming a coalition of the shilling
>to lead this children's crusade all the way to the front lines of
>graduation -- to what I'd rather not say. The future is ours, and the rest
>will just have to figure something out when they get there.
>
>We reached out to hundreds of Muslims detainerated in Guant=E1anamera,
>making the camp all permanent like, because they hate our freedom. We put
>an end to torture by calling it "I Can't Believe It's Not Torture."
>Sometimes words have consequences, and that's why God=81 gave us
>revisionism.
>
>To our bravest young men and women, especially the first to arrive in
>Baghdad, we bequeathified a place in our ownership society=AE. Own your
>own plan, we said -- invasion, security, exit -- see what you can come up
>with. Buy your own safety gear. Here, have a stop-loss order. Go on,
>take it.
>
>Heck, own your own darn reason why we're there in the first place.
>Then, in 16 words or less, write it on the back of a postcard, and mail it
>to "Justification of Invasion: Top Ten Reasons Contest, Attn: Scotty on
>the Spot, the White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., Behind the
>Barricade, District of Condoleezza." Winner will be chosen by random drawin=
g.
>This offer not valid in Massachusetts.
>
>If you make it back, why not buy years of therapy and start up a little
>business? When someone buys a machine part, someone else has to
>manufact it. Just not here. Nobody said fair trade was fair.
>
>And it just keeps getting better. There's 'bout to be an election at an
>undisclosed location so people in Iraq can experience the same rights
>as voters in Miami-Dade and Broward counties. You're welcome. Wish we
>could loan you the DLC, which was such a big help to our campaign.
>Wonderful pack of sit-down guys. No, really, I mean it. You boys get any mo=
re
>agreeable, I'm going to offer you a place in my Cabinet. So keep up the
>nice work and don't let 56 million people tell you different. Also
>wanna thank the press. You kids are cuter 'n a box of Bill Frist lab
>kittens. Here, have some more yarn. You've earned it.
>
>Which brings me to today. America has spoken, and I've made it a point
>of personal pride never to listen. That's called a mandate. Anybody
>need some political capital? I got your capital right here. With a mandate
>comes the solemn duty to do what I want. And it starts with T and it
>ends with E, and that spells Social Security reform. Which is exactly
>what the 2004 campaign was all about, 'cept back in that era I told the
>American people it was national security. Whatever.
>
>There's an old saying about Social Security. "If it ain't broke, fix me
>once. Break it, won't get paid again." Well, if it ain't broke, someone
>better get on with it. I got only 18 months to piratize this sucker.
>The sooner we get cracking, the sooner the big fix can begin.
>
>Some folks say this is a cynical attempt to take down the most
>effective means of preventing poverty in the history of our nation. That on=
ly
>proves Social Security is too big for its britches. The little showoff
>is on stronger financial footing than the U.S. government itself, and
>that's just uppity.
>
>Far be it from me to play the fear card, but the British government has
>learned that Social Security recently sought significant quantities of
>uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that Social
>Security has stockpiled a surplus even as we try to convince the American
>people it's flat bust. Flat bust, I tell you. The government now has
>irrefutable proof that Social Security is in crisis. Because I said so,
>that's why.
>
>We cannot stand by and invest our solvency in low-income seniors, the
>disabled and survivors of a deceased parent. Who died and made them the
>unborn? For only $2 trillion we could accomplish a peaceful transfer of
>power and cashola to people who have the necessary experience.
>
>Some say we're cozying up to financial services companies and their
>executives 'cause they donated 4 million bucks -- more than any other
>industry -- to today's ignorification. Some say Wall Street will reap a
>windfall once Congress makes nice with my plan for these pirate investment
>accounts. Some even say that high-finance types may have some interest
>in my mission to make tax cuts permanent for the right people. This is
>news to me, and as such I would never have been briefed on it.
>
>But to single out money-grubbing speculators is a flat-out insult to
>the energy companies and their executives, who also ponied up more than
>$2.7 million for today's celebration of freedom. Those energy folks has
>worked closely with me for years to make sure all Americans walk in the
>light of an industry-friendly energy bill. Freedom from regulation is
>on the march.
>
>And that is my promise to the American people. To cast a wide net for
>freedom, from the ancient ruins of Enron to the future ruins of Iran,
>with lots of interesting alleys along the way. Freedom to stand in mute
>unity with the Republican House and Senate. Freedom from tyranny, be it
>the corporate tax or the frivolous lawsuit. Freedom to navigate your
>own way, whether through healthcare or unemployment. Freedom to make a
>difference in the lives of others, like gay couples and pro-choice women.
>
>Now let's get this party started. Heavily armed SWAT teams and trained
>attack dogs are standing by to help you celebrate your freedom and keep
>a safe distance from my limo. God bless America. And that's an order.
>
>
>- - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>About the writer
>Joyce McGreevy is a writer in Portland, Ore.
>
>
>
>--
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Outside of a dog a book is a man's best friend.
>Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
>                           (Groucho Marx)


--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:23:08 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jerry 
Subject:      today
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

today our

president

emeged

from The White House

saw

his shadow

signalling

4 more years of

winter

--Gerald Schwartz
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:34:48 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Rebecca Seiferle 
Subject:      Re: today
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Oh thanks for this, Jerry, though I'm keeping the television off for fear of
contacting terminal depression, ha, but then had to read the news and lo and
behold Boston is 'in a state of high tension' as the FBI searches for four Chinese
nationals who crossed the Mexican/US border and via NYC are on their way to
Boston with a dirty bomb or else by exploding an oil truck (probably easier to
disguise since given winter oil trucks are everywhere) though our local officials
assure us "damages will be minimal and contained." I wonder why they're after
Boston? too blue probably? they just can't wait to blow up the state that gave
Bush only 30% of the vote? go figure,  so thanks for this, I realize it cheered a
little because "four years of winter" at least is a period of time that has a definite
end, better four years of winter than the deepfreeze forever, well, now back to
watching for the oil truck,

best,

Rebecca

---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:23:08 -0800
>From: Jerry 
>Subject: today
>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
>
>today our
>
>president
>
>emeged
>
>from The White House
>
>saw
>
>his shadow
>
>signalling
>
>4 more years of
>
>winter
>
>--Gerald Schwartz
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:19:28 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Stephen Vincent 
Subject:      Re: today
In-Reply-To:  <6f0eb0e5.c1acd3ba.81d1a00@ms01.mrf.mail.rcn.net>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Rebecca, I could not help but conflate the "oil truck" scare in Boston with
our 'Driver' George whose mantra for the next four years (and the last four)
= "Give me democracy or I will blow you up." The truck's continuously
honking horn resembles the sound of "Fallujah, Fallujah, Fallujah."
"Drive, he said." Oy.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com






> Oh thanks for this, Jerry, though I'm keeping the television off for fear of
> contacting terminal depression, ha, but then had to read the news and lo and
> behold Boston is 'in a state of high tension' as the FBI searches for four
> Chinese
> nationals who crossed the Mexican/US border and via NYC are on their way to
> Boston with a dirty bomb or else by exploding an oil truck (probably easier to
> disguise since given winter oil trucks are everywhere) though our local
> officials
> assure us "damages will be minimal and contained." I wonder why they're after
> Boston? too blue probably? they just can't wait to blow up the state that gave
> Bush only 30% of the vote? go figure,  so thanks for this, I realize it
> cheered a
> little because "four years of winter" at least is a period of time that has a
> definite
> end, better four years of winter than the deepfreeze forever, well, now back
> to
> watching for the oil truck,
>
> best,
>
> Rebecca
>
> ---- Original message ----
>> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:23:08 -0800
>> From: Jerry 
>> Subject: today
>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
>>
>> today our
>>
>> president
>>
>> emeged
>>
>> from The White House
>>
>> saw
>>
>> his shadow
>>
>> signalling
>>
>> 4 more years of
>>
>> winter
>>
>> --Gerald Schwartz
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:03:13 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Vernon Frazer 
Subject:      Re: today
In-Reply-To:  <000a01c4ff1d$17b9bf00$fd7ba918@rochester.rr.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gerry

I like this one. It reflects my basic feelings.

However...Don't you think this could give groundhogs a bad reputation? :-)

Vernon
http://vernonfrazer.com


-----Original Message-----
From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On
Behalf Of Jerry
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:23 PM
To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: today

today our

president

emeged

from The White House

saw

his shadow

signalling

4 more years of

winter

--Gerald Schwartz
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:50:33 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Laura Elrick 
Subject:      Scalapino, Elrick, Iijima next Thursday
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Leslie Scalapino, Laura Elrick & Brenda Iijima

Poetry Reading
Thursday, January 27th, 2005
7:00 pm

Spoonbill & Sugartown Bookstore
218 Bedford Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11211

L train to Bedford Ave
Tel. 718.387.7322
info@spoonbillsugartown.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:44:29 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         furniture_ press 
Subject:      Hospitalization
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0

Hi, everyone.

Apologies to everyone I missed the last week or so.

Sarah, my wife, was hospitalized recently and since last week I have been b=
y her side.

She is doing well, no worries on this end, but I wanted to make it known th=
at I was not avoiding any contacts.

My best,

Christophe Casamassima


www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae

--=20
_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just=
 US$9.95 per year!


Powered by Outblaze
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:14:47 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         George Bowering 
Subject:      Re: Poetry as a Second Language
In-Reply-To:  <157.48803d1c.2f2104d7@aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

On 20-Jan-05, at 4:57 AM, Mary Jo Malo wrote:
>

>  When you read/hear several  pieces by a particular poet, you get
> it and them.

That's right, I think. I remember that my first experience of
William Carlos Williams was that he was so refreshingly
particular.

There is a problem that would-be teen poets have---
they tend to be general. If one can offer to them the
choice of being particular, one will help them along.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:33:33 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      TURNKEY
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

TURNKEY

ERRR
Errr of omission and comission dependent on the speed of execution, words
eliinated, fdged letters, the relationship between the keyboard and the
receiver - both are wireless of course, in matrimony, one to my fingers,
the other to the cpu itself - all of these - with the scanner going in the
background - crimes from brooklyn, bus frequencies, what's happening with
fire and police in my area, a continuous barrage, anyway so the letters
skip, that's what happens with wireless, ther ar packets held up or lost
forever in the system, i'm not sure which, it's clear that, brooklyn's in
a fury, the airwaves are full of it, incoming everywhere, problems with
someone named lewis, meanwhile what happens with the lost, with the
potential for tumors, with the radiation accruing here, with the wireless
lan and the wireless keyboard and wireless mouse and etc. - skull's so
thin you can never tell - consider this an error message, don'tlook for
much else, the universal 404 not found, but permanent, brooklyn world gone
down in flames, 6322 11th avenue going down, what's ahppening here, then
there are the letter reversals, the intermittencies, the duplications, the
misepllings, the huried salacious comments, the defenisve fortifications,
1083 just aking a reporrt or going to the hospital still operating on box
1512 63 year old male missing with bluejeans no coat family dispute 388
woodbine female complaint 6703

Patrol Boro Brooklyn North
     Z22   (73   /   75)             Z23 (77/79)       Z24 (81/83)
F 1 Z22   476.9875                  Z22   476.9875    Z22   476.9875
F 2 Z23   476.7375                  Z23   476.7375    Z23   476.7375
F 3 Z24   476.7875                  Z24   476.7875    Z24   476.7875
F 4 Z25   476.7625                  Z25   476.7625    Z25   476.7625
F 5 Z26   476.6875                  Z26   476.6875    Z26   476.6875
F 6 PBBN  470.9625                  PBBN  470.9625    PBBN  470.9625
F 7 Z18   476.9375  Z18   476.9375  Z20   477.0125    Z20   477.0125
F 8 Z20   477.0125  Z28   477.0875  Z21   476.4125    Z31   476.7125
F 9 TAC B 485.5875                  TAC C 485.5625    TAC D 485.4875
F10 BKIO  482.7875                  BKIO  482.7875    BKIO  482.7875
F11 CW 1  470.6875                  CW 1  470.6875    CW 1  470.6875
F12 CW 2  470.7125                  CW 2  470.7125    CW 2  470.7125

"400-1","BROOKLYN AMB DISP A","NEW YORK CITY","EMS OPERATIONS","NY","NEW
  YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S4, B1-S4, B2-S12, B3-N/A, B4-S4, B5-S4, B6-S4, B7
-S4"
"400-2","BROOKLYN SUPV DISP","NEW YORK CITY","EMS OPERATIONS","NY","NEW
YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S4, B1-S4, B2-S12, B3-N/A, B4-S4, B5-S4, B6-S4, B7-
S4"
"400-5","BROOKLYN SUPV-SUPV","NEW YORK CITY","EMS OPERATIONS","NY","NEW
YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S4, B1-S4, B2-S12, B3-N/A, B4-S4, B5-S4, B6-S4, B7-
S4"
"400-7","BROOKLYN BORO CMD","NEW YORK CITY","EMS OPERATIONS","NY","NEW Y
ORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S4, B1-S4, B2-S12, B3-N/A, B4-S4, B5-S4, B6-S4, B7-S
4"
"4816","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS DEPARTMENT SYSTEM
","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2-S11,B3-S11, B4-
S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"5136","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN-B7","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS DEPARTMENT SYS
TEM","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2-S11,B3-S11,
B4-S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"5296","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN; TELL ALL-BRONX","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS D
EPARTMENT SYSTEM","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2
-S11,B3-S11, B4-S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"5648","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN-B35","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS DEPARTMENT SY
STEM","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2-S11,B3-S11,
  B4-S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"5680","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN-B44 DETOUR","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS DEPART
MENT SYSTEM","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2-S11,
B3-S11, B4-S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"5744","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN-ULMER PK EXP BUSES","NEW YORK CITY MTA BU
S DEPARTMENT SYSTEM","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0,
  B2-S11,B3-S11, B4-S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"5826","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN-Q58 DETOUR","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS DEPART
MENT SYSTEM","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2-S11,
B3-S11, B4-S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"5936","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN-B65","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS DEPARTMENT SY
STEM","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2-S11,B3-S11,
  B4-S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"6316","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS DEPARTMENT SYSTEM
","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2-S11,B3-S11, B4-
S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"9840","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN-B9, B23 DETOUR","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS DE
PARTMENT SYSTEM","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2-
S11,B3-S11, B4-S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"33232","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN-B4 DETOUR","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS DEPART
MENT SYSTEM","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2-S11,
B3-S11, B4-S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"33936","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN-B49","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS DEPARTMENT S
YSTEM","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2-S11,B3-S11
, B4-S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"
"34000","BASE TO BUSES-BROOKLYN-Q58","NEW YORK CITY MTA BUS DEPARTMENT S
YSTEM","TRANSIT","NY","NEW YORK","FLEET MAP: B0-S0, B1-S0, B2-S11,B3-S11
, B4-S0, B5-S0, B6-S12"


_
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:45:03 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Poetry Project 
Subject:      Events at the Poetry Project 1/22-1/28
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Saturday, January 22, 1:00 pm
Memorial for John Fisk
We will be having a memorial service for beloved, longtime friend and sound
technician John Fisk, who passed away in recent weeks. The memorial will be
held in the Parish Hall and is open to the public.

Monday, January 24, 8:00 pm
Barbara Cole & Noah Eli Gordon
Barbara Cole=B9s chapbooks include little wives and postcards. In 2002,
Handwritten Press published the first chapbook-length section of her ongoin=
g
project, situ ation come dies, and /ubu editions published another
installment, from foxy moron, in 2004. Noah Eli Gordon is the author of The
Frequencies and The Area of Sound Called the Subtone. He publishes the
Braincase chapbook series from his home in Northampton, MA.

Wednesday, January 26, 8:00 pm
Joshua Beckman & Steven Dalachinsky
Joshua Beckman is the author of four books of poetry: Things Are Happening,
Something I Expected To Be Different, Nice Hat. Thanks. (with Matthew
Rohrer), and, most recently, Your Time Has Come. He is also the translator
of Poker by Tomaz Salamun. He lives in Staten Island, NY. Steven
Dalachinsky=B9s work appears regularly in journals on- and offline, and is
also featured in the infamous Outlaw Bible of American Poetry. His most
recent books include Trial and Error in Paris and Trust Fund Babies.

Friday, January 28, 10:30 pm
Lenny Kaye=B9s =B3You Call It Madness: The Sensuous Song of the Croon=B2
Writer and musician Lenny Kaye=B9s You Call It Madness (just out from
Villard/Random House) illuminates a critical juncture in American popular
culture=8Ba time when singers crossed gender and racial lines, and the mores
of the twentieth century began to shed their inhibitions. Tonight Kaye will
read and perform songs from his impressionistic study of the romantic
singers of the 1930s, complete with tuxedo shirt and vibratoed guitar.

WRITING WORKSHOPS AT THE POETRY PROJECT

KEEPING IT SIMPLE/LOOKING FOR THE LIGHT =AD PATRICIA SPEARS JONES
TUESDAYS AT 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 22ND
"The quality of light by which we scrutinize our lives has direct bearing
upon the product which we live...It is within this light that we form those
ideas by which we pursue our magic and make it realized. This is poetry as
illumination." =AD from =B3Poetry is Not a Luxury=B2 by Audre Lorde. =B3This is a
poetry workshop that takes the poetry of illumination to mean the poetry of
experience. How we scrutinize, how we elucidate our lives through words and
rhythms, how we make our poems bring new ways of thinking about our lives.
We will focus on the basics: line, stanza, cadence, meter, diction, syntax,
and point of view -=AD the elements that make a poem. We will also read
contemporary poets including Audre Lorde, Maureen Owen, Amy Gerstler, Shara=
n
Strange, Lee Young Lee, Jeanne Marie Beaumont, Frank O'Hara, Lorenzo Thomas=
,
and Bob Kaufman.=B2 Patricia Spears Jones is an award-winning poet and
playwright, and author of The Weather That Kills. Students must submit 5-10
pg. work samples before the class begins.

FINDING THE & THEN SOME THERE THERE =AD MERRY FORTUNE
THURSDAYS at 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 24TH
Film of Dreyer, writing of Mayer, painting of Traylor. An identifiable poet
=B3voice=B2 is a desirable, comfortable and utilitarian achievement. But what
potential or beautiful mystery lurks beyond carefully cultivated form,
tendency, technique, habit and boundary. Exploring the processes, qualities
and aesthetics of all art forms we will collectively discover commonalities=
,
and fearlessly apprehend what we may learn to expand our poetic values and
vocabularies as well as our very minds. Merry Fortune is the author of
Ghosts By Albert Ayler, Ghosts By Albert Ayler (Futurepoem).

HYPNOSIS AND CREATIVITY =AD MAGGIE DUBRIS
FRIDAYS AT 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 25TH
=B3Hypnotic and trance states have been used for centuries by shamans, mystic=
s
and visionaries. In this five week workshop, we will study techniques for
self-hypnosis that allow a writer to easily access the creative flow state.
We will explore the use of hypnotic tools to generate images, to increase
creative focus, to switch gears from a day job into writing, and to
circumvent creative blocks. We will also discuss the use of hypnosis to
vividly recall memories, and its use in conjunction with other creative
tools such as automatic writing.=B2 A $20 materials fee covers four of
Dubris=B9s hypnosis CDs, three of which are specifically geared to writing.
Maggie Dubris is the author of Skels (Soft Skull Press 2004), and Weep Not,
My Wanton (Black Sparrow Press 2002). She is also employed as a professiona=
l
hypnotist.=20


POETRY AND MUSIC =AD DREW GARDNER
FRIDAYS at 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN APRIL 8TH
=B3A workshop investigating the relation of music and poetry, comparing the
languages of poetry and music and asking questions about how they can be
combined and how they might illuminate each other. What are the poetic
implications of improvisation? What are the musical implications of everyda=
y
speech? What does our experience of poetry imply about how we experience
sound and how does our listening affect our writing? We will read and liste=
n
to Harry Partch, Morton Feldman, Leo Smith, Pauline Oliveros, Thoreau,
Nathaniel Mackey and others, keep listening notebooks and collaborate with
guest musicians. No musical background required.=B2 Drew Gardner is the autho=
r
of Sugar Pill (Krupskaya) and conducts the Poetics Orchestra, an ensemble
featuring poetry and structured improvisation.


A LAB: POST-CONCEPTUAL POETRIES =AD ROBERT FITTERMAN
SATURDAYS AT 12PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 26
=B3What happens when we ask ourselves not if the poem =B3could have been done
better, but whether it could have been done otherwise=B2 (Dworkin). In
post-conceptual writing, the expression is realized in the process. This
workshop will be a hands-on writing lab. Each week we will write poems
in-class generated by borrowed models from contemporary, 21st Century
poetry. Some of these experiments might include: sampling, bastardization,
procedural writing, mixed media, collaboration, etc.=B2 Robert Fitterman is
the author of 9 books of poetry including: Metropolis XXX (Edge Books),
Metropolis 16-29 (Coach House Press) and Metropolis 1-15 (Sun & Moon Press)=
.

The workshop fee is $300, which includes a one-year individual Poetry
Project membership and tuition for any and all fall and spring classes.
Reservations are required due to limited class space and payment must be
received in advance. Please send payment and reservations to: The Poetry
Project, St. Mark=B9s Church, 131 E. 10th St., NY, NY 10003. For more
information please call (212) 674-0910 or e-mail info@poetryproject.com. We
do accept payment via credit cards. You can either submit $ at
www.paypal.com, or call the office with your number: 212-674-0910. Thanks!


The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html

The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery
131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue
New York City 10003
Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L.
info@poetryproject.com
www.poetryproject.com

Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now
those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all
regular readings).

We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance
notice. For more info call 212-674-0910.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:01:59 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jerry 
Subject:      Re: today
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Oh thanks for this, Jerry, though I'm keeping the television off for fear
of
> contacting terminal depression, ha, but then had to read the news and lo
and
> behold Boston is 'in a state of high tension' as the FBI searches for four
Chinese
> nationals who crossed the Mexican/US border and via NYC are on their way
to
> Boston with a dirty bomb or else by exploding an oil truck (probably
easier to
> disguise since given winter oil trucks are everywhere) though our local
officials
> assure us "damages will be minimal and contained." I wonder why they're
after
> Boston? too blue probably? they just can't wait to blow up the state that
gave
> Bush only 30% of the vote? go figure,  so thanks for this, I realize it
cheered a
> little because "four years of winter" at least is a period of time that
has a definite
> end, better four years of winter than the deepfreeze forever,

Yes, Rebecca: I DO believe there will
be a thaw, a thermador some day. quick
waters running at first beneath the ice...
then over it and around it, melting, melting.

And, also, I'm not simply resigned
to allowing HIS shadow to invent our nation,
neutralizing it, describing it, defining it. I want
to examine the roots of that shadow and our
future, as well as its links to and influence on
other and all forms of expression.

And, YES, Vernon: perhaps I was reaching a
tad bit too far, adorning GWB with mamillianosity...
Groundhogosity he don't deserve!

Cheers,
Gerald
 >today our
> >
> >president
> >
> >emerged
> >
> >from The White House
> >
> >saw
> >
> >his shadow
> >
> >signalling
> >
> >4 more years of
> >
> >winter
> >
> >--Gerald Schwartz
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:18:18 -0500
Reply-To:     Mike Kelleher 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mike Kelleher 
Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center
Subject:      Ms. Fat Booty and the Black Male Feminist
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE    JANUARY 20, 2005

Contact Information:
Michael Kelleher, Artistic Director
Just Buffalo Literary Center

Phone: (716) 832-5400
FAX: (716) 832-5710
Email: mjk@justbuffalo.org

NOTED BLACK CULTURAL CRITIC AND HIP HOP SCHOLAR RETURNS TO BUFFALO FOR BLACK
HISTORY MONTH TALK

BUFFALO. On Tuesday, February 8th, noted black cultural critic and hip hop
scholar Dr. Mark Anthony Neal returns to Buffalo for a talk in recognition
of Black History Month. Dr. Neal's talk, "Ms. Fat Booty and the Black Male
Feminist" will be held at the Langston Hughes Institute, 25 High Street, at
7pm. The event is free and open to the public.

A former graduate student in the Department of American Studies at the
University at Buffalo, Professor Neal is widely known for his provocative
perspectives on contemporary black life and his public lectures and
presentations on notable figures in black culture, from politicians to
popular music artists, including Tupac Shakur, Michael Jackson, Al Sharpton,
Meshell N'degeocello, Marvin Gaye, and Shirley Chisolm. He is the author of
four books: NewBlackMan: Redefining Black Masculinity (Routledge, 2005);
Songs in the Key of Black Life: A Rhythm and Blues Nation (Routledge, 2003);
Soul Babies: Contemporary Black Popular Culture and the Post-Soul Aesthetic
(Routledge, 2002); What the Music Said: Black Popular Music and Black Public
Culture (Routledge, 1998).

This event is co-sponsored by the Department of Women's Studies at UB, Just
Buffalo Literary Center, and the Langston Hughes Institute. Copies of
Professor Neal's books will be available at the talk. For more information
contact the Department of Women's Studies at UB, 645-2327.

-30-

_______________________________
Mike Kelleher
Artistic Director
Just Buffalo Literary Center
2495 Main St., Ste. 512
Buffalo, NY 14214
716.832.5400
716.832.5710 (fax)
www.justbuffalo.org
mjk@justbuffalo.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:35:40 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: Poetry as a Foreign Language
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

thank you both mj and richard  am a bad tipist( ha)  2 fingers
 but in the pomes as i told mary intentional  awkwardness
neither meant to repel or attract  just bored and back-stroking and
inventing
to move public language along
pirvitze it a bit      cilbups   for instance   public backward and
pluralised

oops another secret lost


school days  ( for steve lacy )

anvi(l)
down st germain
river bubble weakly
in a room full o' thrusdays
new beginnings there
a bare jacket in solemn
then begets tough event -

you are gentle/me(a)n(t)
& ocean bubble
tweakly
wheel racing animal-esque
like arrow released from
quiver

2. around the corner the man w/the hand organ

              reaches into his bowels
              pulls out organs of
              light & dark

monkey is cold

3. nephew is laughs -
                                        staircase within endless dawn
               a change of clime               hats

snowfall thru horizontal window
i am as movie
humanful & filled with the intuitive -
a change of hats &
climb the shuttle to hallway's projections

i eat my pastrami
snowfall large flakes
of air filling in the side-
walk

4. morning wears different hats

i return to morning always
tho i rarely get to see it

i dwell within my botched skin/
bone being always one of my favorite
words

                            steve dalachinsky nyc st marks church steve
lacy tribute 1/19/05
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:31:41 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Fw: Re: A neglected poets
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

true enough but who's to judge
dead or alive
anna margolin?
and lots of un-neglected shit today
will hopefully be neglected tomorrow
it's in many cases  peerism
lots of over-recognized folk don't even have much of a body
of work
hit and miss like all of us
but play well
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:52:55 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Bill Marsh 
Subject:      a natural anthem
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'm looking for parodies, riffs, spoofs on traditional patriotic songs
(written by poets dear or near to this list, in particular).

If anyone has or can refer me to any, I'd be grateful. Backchannel at
your discretion.

For a possible compilation.

Thanks,
Bill
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:27:18 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         William A Sylvester 
Subject:      Re: SARAH COLE
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

M.T   Cross pointed out SARAH IS CAMPBELL  CAMPBELL  CAMPBELL.
Cole is Barbara Cole.

And what is more:  DOUGLAS MANSON should have been in caps too.

And how come I haven't mentioned THOM DONOVAN--poet, artist, introducer,
suave and subtle.


And then there's M. T. Cross himself--strongly recommended by Elizabeth
Willis.


They will all (except for Liz) be at the ALBRIGHT KNOX  January 28 6-8 pm.

Cheers from

Sloppy Bill



On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, William A Sylvester wrote:

> Cole is editor of the beautifully printed and wide ranging book length
> P-Queue. Her own poetry combine a keen sense of abstraction, and lyricism,
> and is immediately pleasurable.
>
> You have a chance to hear her at the free Friday Night at the Albright
> Knox Art Gallery, during Just Buffalo's presentation 6-8 pm.
>
> Bill Sylvester
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:48:44 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Poetry as a Second Language
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original

Mary

One point - will answer again  - but yes  - I realise 'frenetic' was the
wrong term - 'busy' maybe.

About to play 1 minute chess !!!   Each player has 1 minute each - am self
confessed chess addict - hence certifiable!!!!

back soon
Cheers

Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Jo Malo" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:57 AM
Subject: Poetry as a Second Language


> Richard,
>
> Steve so very warmly assures me that "it's ok not to understand some of my
> words...they are probably those that are made up on the spot and will
> never see
> the light of day...again some are simply words spelled backward and some
> made-up...send me a list and i'll tell ya...but sure no need to struggle
> with
> the pome...if you don't get it that's ok"
>
> Of course you very articulately explained what I had forgotten, that  jazz
> poets, especially in the fine tradition of the Beats like Kerouac, always
> made
> up cool spontaneous words and refused to correct typos according  to the
> spontaneous 'discipline'. I've listened to lots of Steve's recorded
> poetry, and
> you really need to hear him rather than read him. He's actually not
> frenetic,
> more melodious and flowing, quite liquid, flugent. Now  Vernon, you could
> describe his poetry as frenetic, and  wonderfully so. Neither of them are
> radically
> deconstructionist, and I  appreciate that, because my brain works randomly
> enough. I just can't take the  challenge. I can 'look at' abstract art
> much more
> easily than abstract  poetry. For me, words and communication in speaking
> and
> writing can't be too  radical or they say nothing except for the writer.
> That's just my taste,  however, and I know many will disagree.
>
> I enjoy different styles of poetry, and if I may mix  metaphors, quickies
> can
> be as nice as marathons. Every person-poet has both  unique meaning and
> unique expression. When you read/hear several  pieces by a particular
> poet, you get
> it and them. You're right about poets  themselves not always knowing what
> they're writing and how you have to allow it  to work on you.
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004
>
>



--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:59:39 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mona Baroudi 
Subject:      Al Young with WritersCorps Teachers & Youth Poets at Intersection
              1/25
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Join us next Tuesday for the first in our four-part reading series, =
featuring award-winning poet, essayist, novelist, editor, and screenplay =
writer Al Young with WritersCorps teachers and youth poets. Presented in =
collaboration with WritersCorps, this series matches WritersCorps =
writer-teachers with some of our most esteemed literary icons.=20
  AL YOUNG=20
  with=20
  MICHELLE MATZ, ANDRES PABLO SAITO,=20
  CHAD SWEENEY & WRITERSCORPS YOUTH POETS=20

  Tuesday January 25, 2005 at 7:30 PM=20

  Intersection for the Arts=20
  446 Valencia (btwn 15/16) Mission District, San Francisco=20
  $5 - $15 (your choice) sliding scale=20
   Info: (415) 626-2787, www.theintersection.org

"When we look back at 20th-century American literature, Al Young will be =
seen as a writer whose contribution is major and profound."  - Ray =
Gonzalez, poet and Poetry Editor of The Bloomsbury Review=20

Intersection for the Arts presents a four-part intergenerational reading =
series featuring some of our most esteemed literary icons and =
writer-teachers and youth poets from WritersCorps, an organization that =
has transformed and strengthened individuals and communities through the =
written and spoken word.  Since its inception in 1994, WritersCorps has =
helped over 10,000 young people from neighborhoods throughout San =
Francisco improve their literacy and increase their desire to learn.=20

This current series explores the themes and styles of writing across =
three different generations - writers in their teens, writers in their =
20's & 30's, and writers who have been impacting the Bay Area community =
for decades not only through their published work, but also through =
their teaching, mentoring, and tireless advocacy of transformation =
through literature.=20

Intersection for the Arts has the distinction of programming the oldest, =
continuous, independent reading series in California (est. 1965).  The =
program features a remarkable and diverse array of emerging and =
established writers who are committed to expanding the notion of =
literature, testing cultural and discipline-based boundaries, and =
building new audiences for live, intimate literary experiences.  =
Intersection works with writers in every genre and style, providing a =
comprehensive context for contemporary literature.  In recent years, =
Intersection has worked with new and seasoned writers including Aya de =
Le=C3=B3n, bell hooks, Mike Davis, John Trudell, Tillie Olsen, Alice =
Walker, Mart=C3=ADn Espada, Diane di Prima, Jimmy Santiago Baca, and =
Denis Johnson.=20

UPCOMING READINGS IN THE SERIES=20

Tues Feb. 22, 2005 at 7:30 PM=20
Ruth Forman with Chrissy Anderson, Mahru Elahi, Beto Palomar,=20
& WritersCorps youth poets=20

Tues March 22, 2005 at 7:30 PM=20
Al Robles with Kim Nelson, Jime Salcedo-Malo & WritersCorps youth poets=20

Fri April 1, 2005 at 7:30 PM=20
WritersCorps Reading Series Finale

Intersection for the Arts is celebrating its 40th Anniversary this year! =
Intersection is San Francisco's oldest alternative art space and =
provides a place where provocative ideas, diverse art forms, artists and =
audiences can intersect one another.  At Intersection, experimentation =
and risk are possible, debate and critical inquiry are embraced, =
community is essential, resources and experience are democratized, and =
today's issues are thrashed about in the heat and immediacy of live art. =

 =20
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:22:28 +1000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         K Zervos 
Subject:      =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_PixelByPixel:_Durieu_and_Birg=E9?=
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey jim,=20
Please explain how you see the poetry in this, there are no letters, no
words, written or sounded to want to make me interpret this work in a
textual way.
The piece is engaging, but i would have a hard time calling it music, =
visual
art, or poetry. Unlike the work of Nicholas Clauss, www.flyingpuppet.com =
 or
reiner Strasser's and domiziana giordano's 'doorman',
http://nonfinito.de/doorman/ which i do see as poetry even in the =
absence of
words.=20
i cannot extract a narrative thread, or reflect on my own experience, or
fill spaces paratactically generated by the work.
I can only become absorbed in the music and visual stimulus and tactile
input of my mouse. It is like many new media works, an of-the-moment
experience, what ya get is what ya get, and then you move on. Not that =
there
is anything wrong with that, much new media poetry fits into this mould. =

To be well read these days to me means that you surf the web a lot =
looking
for cybertexts, experience them, bookmark some and move on.=20
You Jim would have to be one of the best searchers and sharers of =
sources of
interesting sites. Thank you for always asking me to think, even if
sometimes i don't agree with you. =20

Cheers
komninos

komninos zervos
lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major
School of Arts
Griffith University
Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23
Gold Coast Campus
Parkwood
PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre
Queensland 9726
Australia
Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141
homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos
broadband experiments:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs


|||-----Original Message-----
|||From: UB Poetics discussion group =
[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]
|||On Behalf Of Jim Andrews
|||Sent: Thursday, 20 January 2005 11:08 PM
|||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
|||Subject: PixelByPixel: Durieu and Birg=E9
|||
|||Here is an excellent work of interactive audio/"algorithmic poetry". =
Move
|||the mouse by just a little. Occassionally click. Leave the mouse =
alone
|||for a
|||while. Repeat till cooked.
|||
|||PixelByPixel - 1700K
|||http://www.lecielestbleu.com/media/pixelbypixelframe.htm
|||
|||"Algorithmic poetry by Fr=E9d=E9ric Durieu.
|||Dynamic music by Jean-Jacques Birg=E9.
|||Co-conception Kristine Malden."
|||
|||ja
|||http://vispo.com
|||
|||--
|||No virus found in this incoming message.
|||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
|||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/05
|||

--=20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/05
=20
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 00:07:57 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      MWwFMeGM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

MWwFMeGM
http://www.asondheim.org/yung.jpg

_
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:03:49 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: Poetry as a Second Language
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

oh i do a bit of editing here and there and hate real typos
if they slip thru it is carelessness on my part
many of my pomes are handwritten on scrap paper at first
at an event  or in old days on the street
some in past 3 or so yrs are composed directly on the machine from
spontaneous whatever
or from fragments

sometimes  grab ords from texts read out loud by others
as is case w/lacy pome  then i add i.e snow references
organ grinder guy  etc
all diff mthods when cutting life up
that open field
which is not all that open after awhile
narrowed by age
and physical proximity to the same shit, air, people, events
every fricking day    uch   uch   uchhh
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 00:59:19 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: a natural anthem
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

contact tuli kupferberg


mine lies have gleaned the gory
and the bumbling of the hordes
they murder all those innocents
on just one man's accord
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:44:15 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_PixelByPixel:_Durieu_and_Birg=E9?=
In-Reply-To:  <000001c4ff57$ac51dbe0$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

hi komninos,

just to be clear, the term "algorithmic poetry" is one that durieu uses
about some of his work. i called the 'pixelbypixel' piece (
http://www.lecielestbleu.com/media/pixelbypixelframe.htm ) "algorithmic
poetry" primarily because that's what durieu himself called it.

in 2003 i did an interview with durieu (at
http://turbulence.org/curators/Paris/durieuenglish.htm ) in which he talks a
bit about "algorithmic poetry". he says:

 "...the aim of all this is to create poetry. So, I like to speak about
algorithmic poetry. A poem is a text that procures you poetry if you read
it. The code I'm trying to write is a text that procures you poetry if a
computer reads it for you...."

one can of course interpret this various ways. but, if you read the
interview, you get some sense of the nature of the algorithmic poetry of the
durieu piece 'oeil complex'. the interview reads not as a 'who done it' but
as a 'how'd he do it'. the question is answered, actually, in the end.

programming is a matter of writing. i know it is hard for some people to
conceive of it as admitting the possibility of poetry (not to say that's how
you feel), but that will eventually change.

durieu might strengthen his case were he to incorporate the source code into
what is publicly viewable. he doesn't publish his source code. one is left
to figure it out for oneself. which could conceivably be an important part
of his notion of "algorithmic poetry", come to think of it. publishing it
disambiguates it completely. whereas we associate with poetry rich
ambiguity. by not publishing the source code, one is left to make many
inferences.

shifting topic a bit, you say "i cannot extract a narrative thread, or
reflect on my own experience, or fill spaces paratactically generated by the
work".

when i experience 'pixelbypixel', i find myself composing visually and
sonically. and thinking about the compositional notions of the sonic
possibilities. if one fiddles with a bit and then leaves it alone, it
settles into repeated rhythms (though even then it changes eventually). the
phrases it generates are wide in range. a relatively large combinatorium of
phrases. generative or compositional? one can influence the generation,
though it might be hard to get it to reproduce a phrase exactly. yet it is
not simply generative; one can shape it compositionally.

durieu is one of the most brilliant programmers of net.art i have
encountered. birgé's sound is excellent, but it is durieu putting it all
together algorithmically. it is durieu determining the form and structure of
the music and the visuals, though i imagine birgé has input into this. but
so much happens in the act of writing that cannot be anticipated; that's
where it really takes shape.

ja

> -----Original Message-----
> From: UB Poetics discussion group
> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of K Zervos
> Sent: January 20, 2005 5:22 PM
> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: RE: PixelByPixel: Durieu and Birgé
>
>
> Hey jim,
> Please explain how you see the poetry in this, there are no letters, no
> words, written or sounded to want to make me interpret this work in a
> textual way.
> The piece is engaging, but i would have a hard time calling it
> music, visual
> art, or poetry. Unlike the work of Nicholas Clauss,
> www.flyingpuppet.com  or
> reiner Strasser's and domiziana giordano's 'doorman',
> http://nonfinito.de/doorman/ which i do see as poetry even in the
> absence of
> words.
> i cannot extract a narrative thread, or reflect on my own experience, or
> fill spaces paratactically generated by the work.
> I can only become absorbed in the music and visual stimulus and tactile
> input of my mouse. It is like many new media works, an of-the-moment
> experience, what ya get is what ya get, and then you move on. Not
> that there
> is anything wrong with that, much new media poetry fits into this mould.
> To be well read these days to me means that you surf the web a lot looking
> for cybertexts, experience them, bookmark some and move on.
> You Jim would have to be one of the best searchers and sharers of
> sources of
> interesting sites. Thank you for always asking me to think, even if
> sometimes i don't agree with you.
>
> Cheers
> komninos
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:12:13 +0000
Reply-To:     lisajarnot 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         lisajarnot 
Subject:      Hats for Iraq Project
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear List Folks,

I'm currently working on an art project of sorts: knitting hats in memory of the dead in Iraq.  I've set up a website at www.angelfire.com/poetry/lisajarnot/iraqhat.html

Thought it might be of interest.

Best,
Lisa Jarnot
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:28:11 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Daniel Zimmerman 
Subject:      Re: a natural anthem
Comments: cc: Daniel Zimmerman 
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

pikes speak


o dutiful, for vacant eyes,

for crimson open vein,

for dogma-ravaged sanities

oblivious to pain!

o dutiful! o dutiful!

what grace remains to thee

who spurn the good of brotherhood

for blind fidelity?





~ Dan Zimmerman
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 04:06:29 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_PixelByPixel:_Durieu_and_Birg=E9?=
In-Reply-To:  <000001c4ff57$ac51dbe0$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Hey jim,
> Please explain how you see the poetry in this, there are no letters, no
> words, written or sounded to want to make me interpret this work in a
> textual way.
> The piece is engaging, but i would have a hard time calling it
> music, visual
> art, or poetry. Unlike the work of Nicholas Clauss,
> www.flyingpuppet.com  or
> reiner Strasser's and domiziana giordano's 'doorman',
> http://nonfinito.de/doorman/ which i do see as poetry even in the
> absence of
> words.
> i cannot extract a narrative thread, or reflect on my own experience, or
> fill spaces paratactically generated by the work.
> I can only become absorbed in the music and visual stimulus and tactile
> input of my mouse. It is like many new media works, an of-the-moment
> experience, what ya get is what ya get, and then you move on. Not
> that there
> is anything wrong with that, much new media poetry fits into this mould.
> To be well read these days to me means that you surf the web a lot looking
> for cybertexts, experience them, bookmark some and move on.
> You Jim would have to be one of the best searchers and sharers of
> sources of
> interesting sites. Thank you for always asking me to think, even if
> sometimes i don't agree with you.
>
> Cheers
> komninos

I think that PixelByPixel has much more interesting generative/compositional
possibilities than anything you are likely to find in Clauss or Strasser,
both of whose work I have written about and admire (s:
http://www.turbulence.org/curators/media2/strasser.htm , c:
http://turbulence.org/curators/Paris/claussenglish.htm ).

It requires not only a programmer but someone who likes to think of
'language' to create programming which opens up interesting
generative/compositional possibilities. You can see one of the roles of
'language' here: works that have rich generative/compositional possibs allow
the wreader to at least influence the concatenations/layers of sound and/or
visuals. But concatenations of what? And how are the layers structured? And
how are the concatenations arrived at? And the layering also? Together,
these schema form a kind of language of sound and/or visuals. When I listen
to PixelByPixel, part of what I listen for is the compositional range and
the nature of what is composed. Does it always sound the same? How much
range does it have? Is what it generates/allows composition of an
interesting type of sound? What is the conception of music therein? What is
the language of love?

So although there is no English language goin on here, the creative
investigation of sonic and visual language is actually rather sophisticated,
Komninos. For instance the musical language is a matter beyond timbre. It is
structural. A grammar.

You see, 'language' and our understanding of it is being transformed. In
large part because of the central role of language as a subject of study of
mathematics over the last seventy years (basically since Godel). When one
studies theoretical Computer Science, what one studies centrally are the
formal properties of language. One may ask whether computers are number
processing devices or language processing devices. The answer is that they
are profoundly both, and the profundity is in the connection between the
two.

Language is relevant to DNA and to all programmed processes, to all the
processes of life. And art. Consequently, poetry, which we associate with
intensest engagement with language, begins to move from what it has been
through these other languages and engagements. Poetry is the ghost in the
machine, moves through intensest engagement with language, which by now can
be quite other than what we have known as poetry.

ja
http://vispo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:07:54 +0100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Henrike Lichtenberg 
Organization: http://freemail.web.de/
Subject:      Re: Who wrote this?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

could this be a strophe from "lilli marlen" ("vor der kaserne" lalala)=3F
writer of the original text was Hans Leip. but the passage you quote does =
not seem to be in it.

best, h=5F



Does anyone know who wrote a poem containing the following lines, more or =
less as in my faulty German:

Und nun ist kommen der krieg, der krieg (repeat three times=3F) wer wilt nun=
 k=FCssen mein weisses leib=3F

Comes from WWI period and I vaguely remember seeing it in connection with =
something about Joyce.

Irving Weiss=20
=20

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/=3Fmc=3D021193
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 8 Jan 2005 02:16:25 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Who wrote this? It is in 'The Making of Ulysses'
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original

This is in "The Making of Ulysses " by Frank Budgeon it is  poem by the
Viennese poet Felix Beran -  a friend of Joyce's in Zurich. Joyce told
Budgeon about it in about 1918 - it was  the only poem re war that
interested Joyce - then

It goes    Und nun ist kommen der Krieg der Kreig
               x 3

   Then      Nun sind sie alle Soldaten
                x3
  The        Soldaten mussen sterben
               x 3
                     Sterben mussen sie
  Then       Wer wird nun kussen
                x 3
                  Meiner weissen Leib

I had read this only  a few days ago  and was reading that book and another
called  "Our Friend James Joyce  " as  i found them while sorting out some
of my books.

My daughter's boyfriend -partner  -whatever: is German  -but from  here I
dont know what it means  Krieg means games?  - Leib = body. Soldaten =
soldiers ... I think   'kussen' is kissing.

I would be interested in what it says in English

I just noticeed this : "The word "Lieb" (body) moved him to
enthusaism......."

Richard Taylor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Henrike Lichtenberg" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 4:07 AM
Subject: Re: Who wrote this?


could this be a strophe from "lilli marlen" ("vor der kaserne" lalala)?
writer of the original text was Hans Leip. but the passage you quote does
not seem to be in it.

best, h_



Does anyone know who wrote a poem containing the following lines, more or
less as in my faulty German:

Und nun ist kommen der krieg, der krieg (repeat three times?) wer wilt nun
küssen mein weisses leib?

Comes from WWI period and I vaguely remember seeing it in connection with
something about Joyce.

Irving Weiss


______________________________________________________________
Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193


--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004




--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:44:07 -0500
Reply-To:     marcus@designerglass.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Marcus Bales 
Subject:      Re: a natural anthem
In-Reply-To:  <002b01c4ffac$4a1a9390$3a95c044@MULDER>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

On 21 Jan 2005 at 6:28, Daniel Zimmerman wrote:

> pikes speak
>
> o dutiful, for vacant eyes,
> for crimson open vein,
> for dogma-ravaged sanities
> oblivious to pain!

> o dutiful! o dutiful!
> what grace remains to thee
> who spurn the good of brotherhood
> for blind fidelity?

Excellent!

Marcus
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:42:23 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      Re: PixelByPixel: Durieu and =?iso-8859-1?Q?Birg=E9?=
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

jim; this is an amazingly clear and helpful answer to all such
questions. i feel like forwarding it to my colleagues, my normy
poetry friends, etc., not in any spirit of polemical defense of
alterity but simply as a clear and "scientific" explanation of the
permeable borders of "language." thanks!

At 4:06 AM -0800 1/21/05, Jim Andrews wrote:
>  > Hey jim,
>>  Please explain how you see the poetry in this, there are no letters, no
>>  words, written or sounded to want to make me interpret this work in a
>>  textual way.
>>  The piece is engaging, but i would have a hard time calling it
>>  music, visual
>>  art, or poetry. Unlike the work of Nicholas Clauss,
>>  www.flyingpuppet.com  or
>>  reiner Strasser's and domiziana giordano's 'doorman',
>>  http://nonfinito.de/doorman/ which i do see as poetry even in the
>>  absence of
>>  words.
>>  i cannot extract a narrative thread, or reflect on my own experience, or
>>  fill spaces paratactically generated by the work.
>>  I can only become absorbed in the music and visual stimulus and tactile
>>  input of my mouse. It is like many new media works, an of-the-moment
>>  experience, what ya get is what ya get, and then you move on. Not
>>  that there
>>  is anything wrong with that, much new media poetry fits into this mould.
>>  To be well read these days to me means that you surf the web a lot looking
>>  for cybertexts, experience them, bookmark some and move on.
>>  You Jim would have to be one of the best searchers and sharers of
>>  sources of
>>  interesting sites. Thank you for always asking me to think, even if
>>  sometimes i don't agree with you.
>>
>>  Cheers
>>  komninos
>
>I think that PixelByPixel has much more interesting generative/compositional
>possibilities than anything you are likely to find in Clauss or Strasser,
>both of whose work I have written about and admire (s:
>http://www.turbulence.org/curators/media2/strasser.htm , c:
>http://turbulence.org/curators/Paris/claussenglish.htm ).
>
>It requires not only a programmer but someone who likes to think of
>'language' to create programming which opens up interesting
>generative/compositional possibilities. You can see one of the roles of
>'language' here: works that have rich generative/compositional possibs allow
>the wreader to at least influence the concatenations/layers of sound and/or
>visuals. But concatenations of what? And how are the layers structured? And
>how are the concatenations arrived at? And the layering also? Together,
>these schema form a kind of language of sound and/or visuals. When I listen
>to PixelByPixel, part of what I listen for is the compositional range and
>the nature of what is composed. Does it always sound the same? How much
>range does it have? Is what it generates/allows composition of an
>interesting type of sound? What is the conception of music therein? What is
>the language of love?
>
>So although there is no English language goin on here, the creative
>investigation of sonic and visual language is actually rather sophisticated,
>Komninos. For instance the musical language is a matter beyond timbre. It is
>structural. A grammar.
>
>You see, 'language' and our understanding of it is being transformed. In
>large part because of the central role of language as a subject of study of
>mathematics over the last seventy years (basically since Godel). When one
>studies theoretical Computer Science, what one studies centrally are the
>formal properties of language. One may ask whether computers are number
>processing devices or language processing devices. The answer is that they
>are profoundly both, and the profundity is in the connection between the
>two.
>
>Language is relevant to DNA and to all programmed processes, to all the
>processes of life. And art. Consequently, poetry, which we associate with
>intensest engagement with language, begins to move from what it has been
>through these other languages and engagements. Poetry is the ghost in the
>machine, moves through intensest engagement with language, which by now can
>be quite other than what we have known as poetry.
>
>ja
>http://vispo.com


--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:44:49 -0500
Reply-To:     rumblek@bellsouth.net
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ken Rumble 
Subject:      Rosmarie Waldrop's Email??
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello everyone,

Does anyone have an email address for
Rosmarie Waldrop?

I want to contact her about a reading I'd
like to set up.

Back channel, front channel, psychic channel.....

Ken
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:12:50 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Irving Weiss 
Subject:      Re: Who wrote this? It is in 'The Making of Ulysses'
In-Reply-To:  <00c201c4f56b$1bfb0d00$68f137d2@com747839ba04b>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you, Richard Taylor, and I do remember now the occasion, decades back=
,
on which I saw the poem in The Making of Ulysses. My German is adequate
enough to translate the poem literally as

And now comes the war (3x)
Now they are all soldiers, i.e., Now everyone=B9s a soldier
Soldiers must die.
Die they must.
Who will now kiss
My white body

Actually, =B3leib=B2 is body, =B3lieb=B2 is the adjective for =B3dear,=B2 from the noun
=B3liebe=B2 for love.

Bully for The Poetics List and gratitude to you.

Irving
Irving Weiss
www.irvingweiss.com




On 1/8/05 5:16 AM, "Richard Taylor"  wrote:

> This is in "The Making of Ulysses " by Frank Budgeon it is  poem by the
> Viennese poet Felix Beran -  a friend of Joyce's in Zurich. Joyce told
> Budgeon about it in about 1918 - it was  the only poem re war that
> interested Joyce - then
>=20
> It goes    Und nun ist kommen der Krieg der Kreig
>                x 3
>=20
>    Then      Nun sind sie alle Soldaten
>                 x3
>   The        Soldaten mussen sterben
>                x 3
>                      Sterben mussen sie
>   Then       Wer wird nun kussen
>                 x 3
>                   Meiner weissen Leib
>=20
> I had read this only  a few days ago  and was reading that book and anoth=
er
> called  "Our Friend James Joyce  " as  i found them while sorting out som=
e
> of my books.
>=20
> My daughter's boyfriend -partner  -whatever: is German  -but from  here I
> dont know what it means  Krieg means games?  - Leib =3D body. Soldaten =3D
> soldiers ... I think   'kussen' is kissing.
>=20
> I would be interested in what it says in English
>=20
> I just noticeed this : "The word "Lieb" (body) moved him to
> enthusaism......."
>=20
> Richard Taylor
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Henrike Lichtenberg" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 4:07 AM
> Subject: Re: Who wrote this?
>=20
>=20
> could this be a strophe from "lilli marlen" ("vor der kaserne" lalala)?
> writer of the original text was Hans Leip. but the passage you quote does
> not seem to be in it.
>=20
> best, h_
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Does anyone know who wrote a poem containing the following lines, more or
> less as in my faulty German:
>=20
> Und nun ist kommen der krieg, der krieg (repeat three times?) wer wilt nu=
n
> k=FCssen mein weisses leib?
>=20
> Comes from WWI period and I vaguely remember seeing it in connection with
> something about Joyce.
>=20
> Irving Weiss
>=20
>=20
> ______________________________________________________________
> Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
> Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=3D021193
>=20
>=20
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004
>=20
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:08:54 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         amy king 
Subject:      Inauguration protest images ...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On her blog today, a D.C. area law student has posted
some decent images:  http://www.laloca.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:18:15 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Aldon Nielsen 
Subject:      Fwd: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

>Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:54:12 +0000
>Reply-To: Poconater Discussion 
>Sender: Poconater Discussion 
>From: "Fraser, Cary F" 
>Subject: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
>To: L-POCONATER@LISTS.PSU.EDU
>X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-sophos
>X-PSU-Spam-Flag: NO
>X-PSU-Spam-Hits: 0
>
>Cary Fraser spotted this on the Guardian Unlimited site and thought you
>should see it.
>
>-------
>Note from Cary Fraser:
>
>Friends,
>
>A wonderful piece of irony.
>
>Cary
>-------
>
>To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site,
>go to http://www.guardian.co.uk
>
>Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
>Given the Biblical language in which George Bush and his speechwriters are
>steeped, it is not surprising that the US president should invoke the
>imagery of fire, writes James Meek
>James Meek
>Friday January 21 2005
>The Guardian
>
>
>One of the models of American leadership is that of Moses, leading God's
>chosen people - then the Jews, now the Americans - towards a promised
>land, following a pillar of fire. At one point, according to the Bible,
>Moses was shown a   sign: "Behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush
>was not consumed."
>
>But the key fire passage in the Burning Bush speech - "We have lit a fire
>as well; a fire in the minds of men" - actually has its origins in a novel
>by the 19th century Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Devils, about
>a group of terrorists' ineffectual struggle to bring down the tyrannical
>Tsarist regime.
>
>One of the characters declares that it is pointless to   try to put out a
>fire started by terrorists: "The fire is in the minds of men and not in
>the roofs of houses," he says.
>
>The novel belongs to a period in Dostoevsky's life which the White House
>might find attractive, after he had been sent by the Tsar to a kind of
>Russian Guantánamo and emerged a deeply religious conservative.
>
>Nonetheless, it is not clear whether Bush is identifying here with the
>terrorists - or the tyrants.
>
>Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"and now it's winter in America"
         --Gil Scott-Heron


Aldon Lynn Nielsen
George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature
Department of English
The Pennsylvania State University
116 Burrowes
University Park, PA   16802-6200

(814) 865-0091 [office]

(814) 863-7285 [Fax]
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:34:55 -0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         lophozia 
Subject:      Fwd:  click to enlarge
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

--- In mailsnail@yahoogroups.com, "lophozia"  wrote:

now playing on bentspoon: five images by Volker Nix, stills from a
movie by Nico Vassilakis, two collages by Jim Leftwich, a silkscreen
by Julie Voyce, a self-portrait by Ruud Janssen, an envelope by
Catherine Devillers, a postcard by Latuff, and plenty more!

http://bentspoon.blogspot.com

plus more Leftwich at:

http://thomaslowetaylor.blogspot.com

& still more at:

http://fivemilcopiesproj.blogspot.com
--- End forwarded message ---
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:36:55 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Stephen Vincent 
Subject:      Re: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
In-Reply-To:  <6.1.2.0.2.20050121131803.026d3aa8@email.psu.edu>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Good piece, Aldon! Made me think also of James Baldwin ominous 1964 New
Yorker essay call to action, The Fire Next Time. Which is also a quote from
the Bible, right?  Indeed - not that Baldwin was trying to burn the country
down (to the contrary), but within the next two years, it was Detroit and
several other cities in various flames. Ironically some good Civil Rights
legislation emerged from it all - whether from non-violent or violent
actions, or the combination of both.
Ironically, George & Co.'s use of the 9-11 flame has been aggressively
oppressive on all fronts, I am afraid. 'Freedom' is just another word for
something to abuse.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com




>> To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site,
>> go to http://www.guardian.co.uk
>>
>> Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
>> Given the Biblical language in which George Bush and his speechwriters are
>> steeped, it is not surprising that the US president should invoke the
>> imagery of fire, writes James Meek
>> James Meek
>> Friday January 21 2005
>> The Guardian
>>
>>
>> One of the models of American leadership is that of Moses, leading God's
>> chosen people - then the Jews, now the Americans - towards a promised
>> land, following a pillar of fire. At one point, according to the Bible,
>> Moses was shown a   sign: "Behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush
>> was not consumed."
>>
>> But the key fire passage in the Burning Bush speech - "We have lit a fire
>> as well; a fire in the minds of men" - actually has its origins in a novel
>> by the 19th century Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Devils, about
>> a group of terrorists' ineffectual struggle to bring down the tyrannical
>> Tsarist regime.
>>
>> One of the characters declares that it is pointless to   try to put out a
>> fire started by terrorists: "The fire is in the minds of men and not in
>> the roofs of houses," he says.
>>
>> The novel belongs to a period in Dostoevsky's life which the White House
>> might find attractive, after he had been sent by the Tsar to a kind of
>> Russian Guantánamo and emerged a deeply religious conservative.
>>
>> Nonetheless, it is not clear whether Bush is identifying here with the
>> terrorists - or the tyrants.
>>
>> Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> "and now it's winter in America"
>        --Gil Scott-Heron
>
>
> Aldon Lynn Nielsen
> George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature
> Department of English
> The Pennsylvania State University
> 116 Burrowes
> University Park, PA   16802-6200
>
> (814) 865-0091 [office]
>
> (814) 863-7285 [Fax]
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:47:39 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Robert Corbett 
Subject:      Re: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Baldwin's book about the killer of black children in Atlanta is still the most important anyone has said about race recently.

by the way, wasn't Doestevsky a nationalist or a slavophile more than a religious conservative?  i see no way that someone who was dogmatically or prescriptively religious could imagine the voices he does.  basically he makes Tolstoy seem sentimental (even Christian, for chrissakes).

Robert

Stephen Vincent  wrote:
Good piece, Aldon! Made me think also of James Baldwin ominous 1964 New
Yorker essay call to action, The Fire Next Time. Which is also a quote from
the Bible, right? Indeed - not that Baldwin was trying to burn the country
down (to the contrary), but within the next two years, it was Detroit and
several other cities in various flames. Ironically some good Civil Rights
legislation emerged from it all - whether from non-violent or violent
actions, or the combination of both.
Ironically, George & Co.'s use of the 9-11 flame has been aggressively
oppressive on all fronts, I am afraid. 'Freedom' is just another word for
something to abuse.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com




>> To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site,
>> go to http://www.guardian.co.uk
>>
>> Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
>> Given the Biblical language in which George Bush and his speechwriters are
>> steeped, it is not surprising that the US president should invoke the
>> imagery of fire, writes James Meek
>> James Meek
>> Friday January 21 2005
>> The Guardian
>>
>>
>> One of the models of American leadership is that of Moses, leading God's
>> chosen people - then the Jews, now the Americans - towards a promised
>> land, following a pillar of fire. At one point, according to the Bible,
>> Moses was shown a sign: "Behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush
>> was not consumed."
>>
>> But the key fire passage in the Burning Bush speech - "We have lit a fire
>> as well; a fire in the minds of men" - actually has its origins in a novel
>> by the 19th century Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Devils, about
>> a group of terrorists' ineffectual struggle to bring down the tyrannical
>> Tsarist regime.
>>
>> One of the characters declares that it is pointless to try to put out a
>> fire started by terrorists: "The fire is in the minds of men and not in
>> the roofs of houses," he says.
>>
>> The novel belongs to a period in Dostoevsky's life which the White House
>> might find attractive, after he had been sent by the Tsar to a kind of
>> Russian Guantánamo and emerged a deeply religious conservative.
>>
>> Nonetheless, it is not clear whether Bush is identifying here with the
>> terrorists - or the tyrants.
>>
>> Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> "and now it's winter in America"
> --Gil Scott-Heron
>
>
> Aldon Lynn Nielsen
> George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature
> Department of English
> The Pennsylvania State University
> 116 Burrowes
> University Park, PA 16802-6200
>
> (814) 865-0091 [office]
>
> (814) 863-7285 [Fax]
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:53:27 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Aldon Nielsen 
Subject:      Re: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 01:36 PM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
>Good piece, Aldon! Made me think also of James Baldwin ominous 1964 New
>Yorker essay call to action, The Fire Next Time. Which is also a quote from
>the Bible, right?


"God gave Noah the rainbow sign;
   No more water, the fire next time."

though it certainly was rooted in scripture prior to becoming a song --


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"and now it's winter in America"
         --Gil Scott-Heron


Aldon Lynn Nielsen
George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature
Department of English
The Pennsylvania State University
116 Burrowes
University Park, PA   16802-6200

(814) 865-0091 [office]

(814) 863-7285 [Fax]
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:01:55 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Elizabeth Rich 
Subject:      Re: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Dostoyevsky called himself a "doubter." I don't have the source with me
today, but when I read his biography a long time ago, a quote from a
letter that he had written stood out, and I will always remember it. It
said that he very much wanted to be a Christian and to have faith, but
he couldn't give himself over to complete, unquestioning faith. His
desire for faith seems to be what made him critical of the
intelligensia. He's wonderfully unresolved, so he's always in a position
of cutting right through ideological blinders.

Thanks for posting the article!

--Elizabeth Rich

--
Sincerely,
Elizabeth Rich, Ph.D.

*********************************
Department of English
164 Science East
Saginaw Valley State University
7400 Bay Road
University Center, MI 48710-0001
(989) 964-4317
*********************************

"No one, not even the least privileged amongst us, is ever entirely
powerless over the messages that traverse and position him at the post
of the sender, addressee, or referent."

--Jean-Francois Lyotard from *The Postmodern Condition:  A Report on
Knowledge*
>>> robertmc00@YAHOO.COM 01/21/05 1:47 PM >>>
Baldwin's book about the killer of black children in Atlanta is still
the most important anyone has said about race recently.

by the way, wasn't Doestevsky a nationalist or a slavophile more than a
religious conservative?  i see no way that someone who was dogmatically
or prescriptively religious could imagine the voices he does.  basically
he makes Tolstoy seem sentimental (even Christian, for chrissakes).

Robert

Stephen Vincent  wrote:
Good piece, Aldon! Made me think also of James Baldwin ominous 1964 New
Yorker essay call to action, The Fire Next Time. Which is also a quote
from
the Bible, right? Indeed - not that Baldwin was trying to burn the
country
down (to the contrary), but within the next two years, it was Detroit
and
several other cities in various flames. Ironically some good Civil
Rights
legislation emerged from it all - whether from non-violent or violent
actions, or the combination of both.
Ironically, George & Co.'s use of the 9-11 flame has been aggressively
oppressive on all fronts, I am afraid. 'Freedom' is just another word
for
something to abuse.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com




>> To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited
site,
>> go to http://www.guardian.co.uk
>>
>> Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
>> Given the Biblical language in which George Bush and his
speechwriters are
>> steeped, it is not surprising that the US president should invoke the
>> imagery of fire, writes James Meek
>> James Meek
>> Friday January 21 2005
>> The Guardian
>>
>>
>> One of the models of American leadership is that of Moses, leading
God's
>> chosen people - then the Jews, now the Americans - towards a promised
>> land, following a pillar of fire. At one point, according to the
Bible,
>> Moses was shown a sign: "Behold, the bush burned with fire, and the
bush
>> was not consumed."
>>
>> But the key fire passage in the Burning Bush speech - "We have lit a
fire
>> as well; a fire in the minds of men" - actually has its origins in a
novel
>> by the 19th century Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Devils,
about
>> a group of terrorists' ineffectual struggle to bring down the
tyrannical
>> Tsarist regime.
>>
>> One of the characters declares that it is pointless to try to put out
a
>> fire started by terrorists: "The fire is in the minds of men and not
in
>> the roofs of houses," he says.
>>
>> The novel belongs to a period in Dostoevsky's life which the White
House
>> might find attractive, after he had been sent by the Tsar to a kind
of
>> Russian Guant*namo and emerged a deeply religious conservative.
>>
>> Nonetheless, it is not clear whether Bush is identifying here with
the
>> terrorists - or the tyrants.
>>
>> Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> "and now it's winter in America"
> --Gil Scott-Heron
>
>
> Aldon Lynn Nielsen
> George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature
> Department of English
> The Pennsylvania State University
> 116 Burrowes
> University Park, PA 16802-6200
>
> (814) 865-0091 [office]
>
> (814) 863-7285 [Fax]
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:31:18 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      Re: Hats for Iraq Project (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

this was turned back for security and since I'm not on a visual mailer, I
couldn't complete the "challenge". Anyway, others might be interested in
the site as well - alan



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:28:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Alan Sondheim 
To: lisajarnot 
Subject: Re: Hats for Iraq Project



This is a wonderful project - by the way have you been to
http://cryptome.org/ - I don't know much about it, but it's fairly hard-hitting
- Alan



nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/
http://www.asondheim.org/
WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/
http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim
Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:50:38 -0500
Reply-To:     az421@freenet.carleton.ca
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Rob McLennan 
Subject:      rob's clever blog
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

new(ish) on rob's clever blog
        www.robmclennan.blogspot.com

- span-o, poetry 101 & The Factory Reading Series (Ottawa)

- maria erskine (a Toronto poet)

- photos from Clare Latremouille's Christmas party

- a Meredith Quartermain interview I did at Alterran Poetry Assemblage; an
interview Sheila E. Murphy did with me at Stride; an ad for soy sauce;
bubblesoap

- a review of Michael Holmes' Parts Unknown (Insomniac Press)

- ongoing notes, December 2004 (Gary Barwin, Kemeny Babineau & Erin Bidlake)

- detritus (various reviews, links, cartoons)

- Rachel Zucker (a New York poet)

- a review of Diana Brebners The Ishtar Gate: Last and Selected Poems (The
Hugh MacLennan Poetry Series, McGill-Queen's)

- some notes on narrative & the long poem: a sequence of sequences

- a review of Ian Samuels' The Ubiquitous Big (Coach House Books)

etc.



--
poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics
(Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press
fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon)     ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0
www.track0.com/rob_mclennan   *         http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:14:07 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      yunghealed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

{x:x=x} = http://www.asondheim.org/yungheal.jpg
yunghealed


_
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:56:03 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         furniture_ press 
Subject:      New Release from furniture Press
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0

Furniture Press is satisfied with its new publication, so much so that it i=
s willingly inviting everyone to partake in the celebration. It's letter "J=
" of the Serial Pamphleteer Editions, and it's kicking off the new year wit=
h a 'cabinet of curiosities' take on bookmaking. There's also a surprise in=
side...

By the way, it's by Kevin Thurston and it's called "O Outbreak" and there's=
 only about 50 copies left in the world so hurry!

$5+$1=3D$6 will get you a nice shiny copy of Kevin's excellent little book.

To:

Christophe Casamassima
19 Murdock Road
Baltimore MD 21212


Next in the series are:

Steve Dalachinsky

Catherine Daly

John M. Bennett

and check out the link below (let me know what you want and maybe I'll give=
 you some discounts!!!)

www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae

--=20
_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just=
 US$9.95 per year!


Powered by Outblaze
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:25:36 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Austinwja@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: Hospitalization
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 1/20/05 2:07:07 PM, furniture_press@GRAFFITI.NET writes:

<< Hi, everyone.


Apologies to everyone I missed the last week or so.


Sarah, my wife, was hospitalized recently and since last week I have been by
her side.


She is doing well, no worries on this end, but I wanted to make it known that
I was not avoiding any contacts.


My best,


Christophe Casamassima >>

My best wishes for your wife's speedy recovery.  Best, Bill

WilliamJamesAustin.com
kojapress.com
amazon.com
b&n.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:07:57 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jesse Taylor 
Subject:      Tsunami Relief Benefit in NJ
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

For Immediate Release



Montclair Responds Hosts Tsunami Relief Effort:

"Healing the Heart of the World"


Montclair, NJ.  Montclair Responds, a Tsunami Relief Effort Group headed
by Luna Stage and SpiralBridge, will host an evening of music, food, and
more on Friday, January 28th, 2005 with all proceeds to benefit The
American Red Cross for the Tsunami Relief Effort. The suggested tax
deductible donation is $20-50.



Awarding-winning actor Frankie Faison (The Wire) will host the evening
that will begin with a reception from 7-8pm and live music, dance and
spoken word performances offered from 8-10pm. The Mike Callahan Band,
Daniel McBride, Naomi Davis and The Gospel Queens of Brooklyn,
singer/songwriter Lori Michaels, vocalist Sandi Rossi (with pianist
Alice Jamison,) and The American Watercolor Movement will provide the
music. Dance performances will feature Lauren Handelman, Blair Ritchie
and Tim Kochka (from Riverdance.) Spoken word artists will include
Helena D. Lewis, Deborah L. Humphreys and the SpiralBridge Poets. There
will be a special appearance by Gilligan Stump! and Tha Perfesser.



Food for the evening has been donated by Taro Restaurant, Nauna's Bella
Casa Restaurant, Marlboro Bake Shop and Pathmark with gift certificates
(as door prizes) donated by Zuchette's Pizza Shop and Marzullo Brothers
Restaurant.



Montclair Responds is also organizing local businesses to participate in
a "Shop for Relief Day" on Saturday, January 29th, 2005.  Sponsoring
businesses, which can be identified by a poster in their windows, will
donate 5-10% of their gross revenue for that day to The American Red
Cross or will have donation cans in place.   Montclair residents are
urged to shop at participating stores - Starseed Center for Yoga and
Wellness; Spice It Up, LLC; the Healing Zone; Montclair Book Center;
Fleet Feet Sports; Bluestone Coffee Company; Vanity Salon; Studio
Groomers; Copa Bananas; Chez Renee; Taro Restaurant; Hot Bagels Abroad;
Edward Coluille; Rosario's Butcher Shop and Italian Specialties; Stock
Pot; Dexterity Ltd.; Doin' Dishes; Elly's Knit'n Best; Dressing for
Pleasure; Sandy Deck's Parties; Calima Jewels; Grove Pharmacy; Grove
Plaza Florist; Piazza della Sole Shoes; Port au Princess Boutique;
Greek's Delight and Nauna's Bella Casa Restaurant.



Businesses who would like to participate in the "Shop for Relief Day"
can contact Jesse Taylor at Jesse@SpiralBridge.org. For information
regarding the benefit call Luna Stage, located at 695 Bloomfield Avenue,
Montclair NJ., at 973-744-3309.   For more information about the
American Red Cross, please call 1-800-HELP NOW or email
www.info@usa.redcross.org.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:30:30 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Irving Weiss 
Subject:      Re: Who wrote this?
In-Reply-To:  <251171830@web.de>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks for answering. I found the poet and complete poem through Richard
Taylor.


On 1/21/05 7:07 AM, "Henrike Lichtenberg"  wrote:

> could this be a strophe from "lilli marlen" ("vor der kaserne" lalala)?
> writer of the original text was Hans Leip. but the passage you quote does=
 not
> seem to be in it.
>=20
> best, h_
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Does anyone know who wrote a poem containing the following lines, more or=
 less
> as in my faulty German:
>=20
> Und nun ist kommen der krieg, der krieg (repeat three times?) wer wilt nu=
n
> k=FCssen mein weisses leib?
>=20
> Comes from WWI period and I vaguely remember seeing it in connection with
> something about Joyce.
>=20
> Irving Weiss=20
> =20
>=20
> ______________________________________________________________
> Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
> Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=3D021193
>=20
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:16:36 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Dan Machlin 
Subject:      Ramsdell/Rankine Read @ Segue
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The Segue Reading Series @ the Bowery Poetry Club

Saturday, January 22, 4-6 p.m.

HEATHER RAMSDELL and CLAUDIA RANKINE

***$5 admission goes to support the readers***
The Bowery Poetry Club is located at 308 Bowery, just north of Houston

Heather Ramsdell is the author of Lost Wax (university of Illinois=20
Press, 1998, National Poetry Series). A founding member of Brooklyn=20
Drama Club, she co-created the play The Situation Room which debuted in=20=

NYC in 2003. Her writing has appeared in An Anthology of New (American)=20=

Poets and American Poetry: The Next Generation (Carnegie Mellon=20
University Press), and in literary journals including Big Allis, Verse,=20=

and Conjunctions. By day, she writes about food in Brooklyn and in=20
Cambridge.

Claudia Rankine is the author of four books of poems, and most recently=20=

of Don't Let Me Be Lonely (Graywolf). She co-edited American Women=20
Poets in the 21st Century: Where Lyric Meets Language with Juliana=20
Spahr, and teaches in the writing program at the University of Houston.

The Segue Reading Series is made possible by the support of The Segue=20
Foundation. For more information, please visit www.segue.org/calendar,=20=

http://bowerypoetry.com/midsection.htm or call (212) 614-0505.

Curators: Dec. & Jan.  Dan Machlin & M=F3nica de la Torre.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:54:27 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Masha Zavialova 
Subject:      Re: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dostoevsky was not a religious conservative, he was a religious left. he
belonged to the religious left wing intelligentsia. While it is unthinkable
here in America it was the case in Russia (and it may still be). Organized
religion is purely political and it can position itself at any point on the
political spectrum, depending on its doctrines. It so happened in America
that American Christians support the doctrine of prosperity as the sign of
divine grace and thus flock together with the rich and powerful. If the
Christian groups who opposed the rich won historically they would have been
among the persecuted now, and on the extreme left.

-----Original Message-----
From: UB Poetics discussion group
[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Elizabeth Rich
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 2:02 PM
To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Re: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky


Dostoyevsky called himself a "doubter." I don't have the source with me
today, but when I read his biography a long time ago, a quote from a
letter that he had written stood out, and I will always remember it. It
said that he very much wanted to be a Christian and to have faith, but
he couldn't give himself over to complete, unquestioning faith. His
desire for faith seems to be what made him critical of the
intelligensia. He's wonderfully unresolved, so he's always in a position
of cutting right through ideological blinders.

Thanks for posting the article!

--Elizabeth Rich

--
Sincerely,
Elizabeth Rich, Ph.D.

*********************************
Department of English
164 Science East
Saginaw Valley State University
7400 Bay Road
University Center, MI 48710-0001
(989) 964-4317
*********************************

"No one, not even the least privileged amongst us, is ever entirely
powerless over the messages that traverse and position him at the post
of the sender, addressee, or referent."

--Jean-Francois Lyotard from *The Postmodern Condition:  A Report on
Knowledge*
>>> robertmc00@YAHOO.COM 01/21/05 1:47 PM >>>
Baldwin's book about the killer of black children in Atlanta is still
the most important anyone has said about race recently.

by the way, wasn't Doestevsky a nationalist or a slavophile more than a
religious conservative?  i see no way that someone who was dogmatically
or prescriptively religious could imagine the voices he does.  basically
he makes Tolstoy seem sentimental (even Christian, for chrissakes).

Robert

Stephen Vincent  wrote:
Good piece, Aldon! Made me think also of James Baldwin ominous 1964 New
Yorker essay call to action, The Fire Next Time. Which is also a quote
from
the Bible, right? Indeed - not that Baldwin was trying to burn the
country
down (to the contrary), but within the next two years, it was Detroit
and
several other cities in various flames. Ironically some good Civil
Rights
legislation emerged from it all - whether from non-violent or violent
actions, or the combination of both.
Ironically, George & Co.'s use of the 9-11 flame has been aggressively
oppressive on all fronts, I am afraid. 'Freedom' is just another word
for
something to abuse.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com




>> To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited
site,
>> go to http://www.guardian.co.uk
>>
>> Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
>> Given the Biblical language in which George Bush and his
speechwriters are
>> steeped, it is not surprising that the US president should invoke the
>> imagery of fire, writes James Meek
>> James Meek
>> Friday January 21 2005
>> The Guardian
>>
>>
>> One of the models of American leadership is that of Moses, leading
God's
>> chosen people - then the Jews, now the Americans - towards a promised
>> land, following a pillar of fire. At one point, according to the
Bible,
>> Moses was shown a sign: "Behold, the bush burned with fire, and the
bush
>> was not consumed."
>>
>> But the key fire passage in the Burning Bush speech - "We have lit a
fire
>> as well; a fire in the minds of men" - actually has its origins in a
novel
>> by the 19th century Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Devils,
about
>> a group of terrorists' ineffectual struggle to bring down the
tyrannical
>> Tsarist regime.
>>
>> One of the characters declares that it is pointless to try to put out
a
>> fire started by terrorists: "The fire is in the minds of men and not
in
>> the roofs of houses," he says.
>>
>> The novel belongs to a period in Dostoevsky's life which the White
House
>> might find attractive, after he had been sent by the Tsar to a kind
of
>> Russian Guant*namo and emerged a deeply religious conservative.
>>
>> Nonetheless, it is not clear whether Bush is identifying here with
the
>> terrorists - or the tyrants.
>>
>> Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> "and now it's winter in America"
> --Gil Scott-Heron
>
>
> Aldon Lynn Nielsen
> George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature
> Department of English
> The Pennsylvania State University
> 116 Burrowes
> University Park, PA 16802-6200
>
> (814) 865-0091 [office]
>
> (814) 863-7285 [Fax]
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:01:44 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      Reviews of Books I like 177 Wilson Avenue
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Reviews of Books I like 177 Wilson Avenue


We returned from West Virginia with a Bearcat Scanner Radio from 1981. It
has only 50 channels, works perfectly, however, and keeps me in touch with
neighborhood doings. She knows where I am, SP 1 and 2.

Radio Shack in the US carries Police Call Frequency Guide: Codes, Maps,
Trunking. Grey vehicle with a white door. Stand by. The 2005 North-East
book (Volume 1) is 384 pages. Two shots fired from a blue Honda Civic
right around the corner from us. The book gives frequencies from police,
taxis, race-cars (?!), business, airports, etc.; it also gives police and
other codes so that one knows what's happening beyond the 104. Highly
recommended. I'm mentioning the book here because it's difficult to find
scanning lists off-line, and at least this computer interferes a bit.
Clearing the area of bystanders. 10-10 possible crime.

The Daily Practice of Painting, Gerhard Richter, Writings 1962-1003,
edited by Hans-Ulrich Obrist, MIT, 2002. Telephone alarm 145 Ocean Avenue,
fire in Apartment 30 on the third floor. The book is brilliant, and looser
than I'd expect; Richter is one of my favorite painters, one of the most
interesting still. There is much on specific series of works, photographs
of the painter, materials on aesthetics, and an anti-ideological position
which is spelled out in numerous ways. 1753. 10-4. Go with the numbers.
Highly recommended. He was strong-armed, punched in the face, and money
was taken.

Zen and the Ways, Trevor Leggett, Tuttle, 1988. This book, dissimilar to
many others on Zen, stresses Kamakura Zen, Kamakura Koans, with numerous
original texts. This was samurai zen, warrior zen, fierce and quick and
appealing. Nothing comes back on that plate, no records. The night
interview of the Nun Myotei is haunting. 246 Ferry Street, 724, Code 3,
male in the car not moving or breathing. There are sections on The Ways
and Texts of the Ways. It is night reading as well. 55 EMS. Material on
ri, ji, shin, ki; on the Jujutsu school Shin-no-Shin-To-Ryu, on the Itto
School, wonderful. Fight on the second floor.

Dispositions, McKenzie Wark, Salt, 2002. Of this more sometime later.
Smoke in the basement private dwelling. Additional 1014. Brooklyn to the
41, Westbound on Flatbush Ladder 159. Dispatcher 445. This work reminds me
of the best of Karl Kraus, Benjamin, what Baudrillard might have been. It
is organized by readings from a Garmin Etrex GPS device; each section is
headed by readouts representing the (primal) scene of its writing/birth.
The readouts include date, time, position (including altitude), and
accuracy. Negative K, might be in Manhattan. Pedestrian struck by
automobile near 63 Orchard Flatbush Avenue. The sections are intricate and
terse, turning around aesthetic, cultural, and sociological aporia.
Respond to box 1566. Smoke on the first floor multiple dwellings. There
are considerations of Kathy Acker, the Met, unfinished books, cities and
airports, codework, epistemology and punctuation. This is literally a
must-read for anyone interested in globality and its incursions. 10130,
459 Maple. I have to clear this up.

The Collected Poems of Kenneth Patchen, New Directions, 1968. I am
revisiting Patchen after all these years and Orange Bears and the poems
and other pieces are even more wonderful than I remember. Post 11. Stand
by for the next dispatch. You got a 757 with the K-9 Unit, Harry. Are you
all right over there? Right now I'm with the Chief Unit 100. Themes,
Miriam and love, Christ walking around and talking just like you or me,
are repeated, there are flowers and killings, and the intensity is
amazing. I found a long article on Patchen by Henry Miller; it's on the
Web if you search for it. Two male blacks with a black coats, fled toward
White Avenue on foot. Near Franklin and Bedford. 75 Victor at 1077 New
York Avenue. "I have but a bullet left / and there are so many things to
kill." I'm home again. Track fire on the David line, Coney-Island bound,
near Utrecht Avenue. Have a victim, cardiac, Franklin Avenue, seizure.

"Do you have a badge around your neck, like a real cop? That means you
pay." - This interrupting. 10-4.

Yuan Dao: Tracing Dao to Its Source, translated by D.C. Lau and Roger T.
Ames, Ballantine, 1998. Ames' introduction is brilliant. Which car,
Sergeant? Box with plastic wrapping on it, next to a hydrant. Corner of
President and Utica. This is an extremely important Taoist text, related
to Daodejing and Zhuangzi, stressing triggering, water symbolism,
accommodation, and the "Gerundical Dao." The text is short but requires a
great deal of time to absorb. Its style is equal to the others, although
it was written late second-century bce. Dispatchers on the 539, 739. I got
a 39. The text seems to me to be unique in its stressing of ecological
considerations; by virtue of the Dao, nature-ing. Oddly reminds one of
Marcus Aurelius. Open door on Henry.

Windows XP Annoyances For Geeks, David A. Karp, O'Reilly, 2004. This is an
update of a book already reviewed - but this is an entirely new work,
covering SP2 among other things. This may well be the best book available
on tuning. Injured skater up on Community. Have them come to door #6 on
the side of the building. Church fire. Broken down pickup truck. Recommend
an ATA for a 36. There is a lot here for geeks as well - VBS scripting for
automation, hardware troubleshooting, etc. Like the other O'Reilly books,
it's detailed in terms of how things work. 71 call for help. The book is
expensive, $34.95, but well worth it.

It's extremely cold out. The dispatcher _sieves, distributes, filters._
Redundancy's kept to a minimum. I find myself distracted by this internet
of the real, these vectors laid and relayed across the square mile that
constitutes my neighborhood. In the midst of a sentence, incoming; I'll
move it to the end.

Mind Hacks, Tips & Tools for Using Your Brain, Tom Stafford & Matt Webb,
O'Reilly 2005. By all means get this book, which is an absolutely unique
description of the working of the mind - in practical, hacking, terms,
with numerous Web references. Calls for help in Bushwick. The picture that
emerges is that of a dynamic brain which doesn't map or model digitally;
instead, it's a complex dialectic of frequencies, internal and external
stimuli, locations and transmuted locations, retinal and other imminent
learnings, etc. An accident by Bergen and Chancellor, possible 908. Don't
know if anyone was hurt. Private house with smoke. Negative, anonymous
caller who hung up. The hacks, by the way, are useful; I've incorporated
some of the ideas into virtual modeling. If I were teaching new media,
this is one of the books I'd use. All units stand by. 315. 315. Drifting
of snow is expected. Snow will begin to fall at twelve-hundred hours. Plan
A and Plan B emergencies.

Drama Contemporary, Germany, edited by Carl Weber, Johns Hopkins, 1996.
This has plays by Strauss, Tabori, Seidel, Pohl, Dorst, Jelinek, and
Muller. I particularly love the Muller and the Jelinek (who just won the
Nobel Prize for literature). Alpha zero three one six zero five five six
six nine two. The Jelinek was a revelation, amazing, related to Heidegger
and Arendt; after reading it, I read The Piano Teacher and Women as Lovers
and will eventually order the rest of her work. It is torrid, dry, Duras,
Beckett, Kraus, and amazing; the intensity drives it like Gillian Welch,
inescapable. All of the plays here are brilliant, believe it or not; I've
been missing out. 104 Montgomery Street, Washington and Franklin.
Jelinek's is Totenauberg (Death/Valley/Summit); Muller's is Mommsen's
Block; Tabori's is Mein Kampf.

A Theory of Fun for Game Design, Raph Koster, Paraglyph, 2005. What can I
say? This is exactly it. I don't have any units available for this job.
Supposed to be a private house. One item. Dispute. Call for help Greene
Avenue. This book reminds me of the late Wittgenstein, deceptively simple,
concerned with the habitus of game-play, expectation suites (my term),
player/human concerns within and without the game-world, and so forth.
I'll be using this for my own virtual work this summer; I recommend it as
a way of clarifying intent, structure, and phenomenology of one's work.
There is text only on the left-hand page, illustration on the right, but
the cost is relatively cheap at $23. Armed man. "Even if players can see
through fiction, the art of the game includes that fiction."

Islam in the Digital Age: E-Jihad, Online Fatwas and Cyber Islamic
Environments, Gary R. Bunt, Pluto, Critical Studies on Islam, 2003. The
kids live in the same building. Be advised. I will be reviewing this
elsewhere, and am reading it now; I wanted to mention it as a guide -
including a huge listing of websites - to online Islam. The book is oddly
careful and "nervous," perhaps for obvious reasons. A wide-range of
Islamic practices are described. Robber, first floor. The numbers for that
search. I think detailed work, along these lines, is necessary on all
fronts - it takes loose ideological cartels as beginning-points, and
examines practices within them - instead of, for example, beginning with
the "blog-structure" and proceeding out of it. Different forms of jihad
are described, including inner, greater, and lesser. There are sections on
9-11, Islamic diversity, Sunni Religious Authority, and so forth. 34 in
progress, male black choked. Missing female black, 11 years old, Charisma
D. wearing red shirt, cloak, coat, hat, and blue jeans, last seen this
morning. Please notify, anxious.

White Volkswagen, check conditions if you will. And check out Razorsmile
#3 - I always love this magazine, this one features chaos magick/tarot -
go to http://homepage.ntlworld.com/matt.lee7/razorsmile. Good writing by
Matt and Morrigan, whom (who?) some of you may know. Accompanying cd-rom.
Habitual runaway. Second floor.

Figure Skating for Dummies, Kristi Yamaguchi, IDG, 1997. This is one of
the best guides ever to the sport; I could well have used this during the
Tonya Harding / Nancy Kerrigan debacle. For all sorts of reasons, I'm
fascinated by Figure Skating; this is the best guide I've seen. Lighten up
Frank. Don't call me Frank. Figure Skating is the "knot" between sports
and the social, and the "knot" among issues of gender, muscle, creativity,
restraint, intelligence. It plays out among all of them; in a sense, every
event is an essay. 1403 New York Avenue. 1085. That unit.

The Aryan Christ, The Secret Life of Carl Jung, Richard Nol, Random House,
1977. I'm fascinated by this work on Jung's spiritual interests and
associations. Corrected address 3025 Ocean Avenue. 169. 64 Woodhaven
Westbound. Thin build, 5' 4", 130 pounds, she has brown hair, brown eyes,
wears glasses, 13 years old. I've always found Jung both fascinating and
problematic, veering towards the Aryan imaginary; this book goes a way in
explanation. I've read this "out of context," not "being" a Jungian, so I
have no other critical guidance than my own sparse understanding. But I do
recommend this, if only for the sources - for that matter, I tend to
believe in its findings. I've got him out on the -. Oklahoma plates.

Godey's Lady's Book, 1866, edited by Sarah Hale. Godey's was the most
popular 19th-century woman's magazine in the United States; it ran from
the early part of the century until 1898. Sarah Hale, an early and
problematic feminist, edit it for most of its life. 12827. The
illustrations are found ripped out and framed in numerous antique shops;
on the other hand, if you can find a full issue, purchase it; the reading
is excellent and one might learn more about 19th-century daily life from
it, than any other source. There are stories, book reviews, poetry, all of
interest. Mobilization point is the gas station on Auburn Street. She's
was wearing red and black sneakers. Should I pick up my dog yet.
(Something tells me I've already reviewed this and a few others - but I
can't find the reviews anywhere. In my mind, then, perhaps, or perhaps you
know better.)

Prayer Book for Sabbath and Festivals, Translated and Annotated with an
Introduction by Philip Birnbaum, Hebrew Publishing Company, New York,
1950. I've wanted to write on the Siddur for a while now, and this seems
like an excellent standard edition. You need to respond to the second
floor. Information is available upon request. There are notes and
alternative readings. The Siddur is the heart of Orthodox daily practice;
like all religious texts, there are ideological embeddings, subtexts, etc.
I hope to do at least a partial deconstructive reading of the work. In
general - with any number of religions - prayers are rarely analyzed; even
with Shinto, while the Norita have been translated, actual practice and
texts are rarely described. (I'm sure there are technical journals with
such information, but it's not readily available.)

Jeans, red hat, red coat. The Collected Verse of Lewis Carroll, Macmillan,
1933. Includes illustrations. I understand Deleuze's fascination. The work
is not only beautiful; it's almost literally indescribable. What seems
simple really isn't - He used to live in the building, doesn't live there
any more, hangs around there. Michael Maldenado, hispanic, mustache,
short hair, they call him Sparko, walk down Bergen Street. That was a big
word there, I got you. 10-4 Good Night. There are issues of capital,
technology, reworked nature, all at play; even nonsense is self-critiqued;
the pieces reference each other; oddly enough, the children are hardly
present. Charley's requesting a sergeant. Then there are the erotics of
his photography; check out Alison Smith, editor, Exposed: The Victorian
Nude, Watson-Guptill, New York.

It continues to be difficult to focus. TD involved in an MDA. There are
sirens outside the window uncorrelated with the scanner background sirens.
311 fire location. I think I'm letting you down, that these reviews aren't
up to the usual, that centripetal daily life interferes, exhales. Every
apartment is a lockdown. Bush spreads freedom while our jail population,
mainly "minority," is well over two million. Spread the jails around the
world - more money for corporate usa. 111 Police Boulevard. Confirmed
fifteen-year-old habitual runaway.

To be reviewed: Phyllis Chesler, The new Anti-Semitism: The Current Crisis
and What We Must Do About It; Tony Northrup and Eric Faulkner, Home
Hacking Projects for Geeks; Frances Crosby, Poems of a Blind Girl. He's
not answering. 37 George. Disregard, disregard. Disregard that. Family
dispute. 3214 Beverly Road. 10-4. Altercation. Automatic alarm at the
mall. Ex-boyfriend fighting there, destroying the house, 2143, code 3.

_
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:37:13 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: Reviews of Books I like 177 Wilson Avenue
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glad you rediscovered patchen officer down send help



stop   stop  stop  stop     now
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 06:52:35 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter....
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bone cold
bone dry
....

id
al
adah

.....

praise
be

.....

the one
who is
the alternate
side

....

cold dawn....a.....a.......drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jan 2005 02:27:40 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Who wrote this? It is in 'The Making of Ulysses'
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Your Irvingness

It's the only of those literary type questions I have ever been able to
answer! And it was thru happenstance - when you first asked - I thought -
that rings a bell -was it written by the ubiquitous Monsieur Comrad
Sondheim, or Comrad Herr George Bowering? - but then I thought - no! don't
be
silly Richard 4 (stop being or trying to be Pessoa - says Richard 48) - its
from something about Joyce  - I have read The Dubliners and Portrait (both
as a teenager  and more recently in my dotage read them again and Ulysees
but I only really liked the first three chapters and the last three of that
book - and was thinking of tackling Joyce again  - I was completely
dumbfounded by all that stuff about Shakespeare etc....) ) but then I
realized last night at about 2 am I had the book - it is actually called
"James Joyce and The Making of Ulysses" by Frank Budgeon in the other room -
I realize that Krieg is / was war and also possibly game (Chess has been
likened to war I am a keen chess nutter and I used to play Kriegspiel (Chess
when one player has only the black pieces and the other has the white etc)
and last night my ("son in law") Gerhardt asked my grandson to give Oppa  a
"Kuss" I think it was and he apparently kissed the phone!!)  - I wish Budgen
had translated it - those old guys they all knew Greek and Latin and Italian
and German and so on - at least Pound repeats things - lol) I did a year of
Spanish - years ago  - 1992 - three years of Latin (1962 -1965) - still just
know a few things  - and learnt Samoan about 1972 - there are a lot of
Samoans here so I could practice that language  more easily O le a le mea
lea? Fia oe?  ~ What is
that? Are you hungry ? (lol - it has other interpretations I'm rusty even on
Samoan -never was fluent!)) - once and picked up scraps of German and French
and Maori -its amazing - my friend who is sixty  five years old and has
never left NZ knows not even one Maori word !! Not even the name of  a
famous tree called the pohutukawa which is incredibly beautiful in summer
with jewel-like flowers..doesn't know what it is -its a Maori tree to him I
suppose:
my son hates Maori - calls them and other Polynesians by derogatory terms
(they are called 'bungas' or 'coconuts' ) but that is common  - racism I
mean (often just from omission rather than any active racism although there
are some real madmen here  who are very racist...)) -amongst the working
class here )) unless it is already in the NZ language -some (words) are !!
there are a lot of kiwis like that - working class mostly, I must concede
(nor do they ever attempt to pronounce Maori properly - its almost a point
of - a real thing   - for them to NOT pronounce Maori or take any interest
in
Maori stuff etc -not that I know much myself even though my neighbour is a
Maori and so on -  but I know some words) - but really only know one
language - English and I don't know that very well - amazing how people can
speak so many languages like Joyce (but Joyce turned his back on the
"indigenous" stuff in Ireland -no?), or Pierre Joris etc - I found the poem
quite beautiful translated - reminds me of - although I think he is a
greater poet -of some of the poems of the very great British poet Keith
Douglas - not that there is any stylistic similarity - just something in the
tone  - although Douglas liked war - its hard to say where or whether he
"protests" war and he is  the strange case of a great modern writer  -who
died very young: just at the end of the war - who wrote in rhyme and fairly
strict metre -

Its the poem in which he finds a dead German soldier and there is a note
from his girl friend in German in his pocket - it says something like
"forget me not" which is the title of quite a great novel by Joyce Carol
Oates who is
Senor D Baratier's favourite writer and poet [ no it isn't,  actually the
book is called: "You Must Remember This"] - Douglas (to return to Douglas)
is usually unsentimental and even seems hard or harsh but he's an incredible
poet - "How to Kill" is terrible - disturbing and clinical but awesome....
Joyce hated war and violence which is probably a good way to be: I feel the
only war justified is one of defence of one's nation - meaning in a sense
self-defence - all other war is monstrous - Bush, Rice, Cheney, Rumsford,
Blair, Helen Clark (NZ is involved don't believe otherwise) and so on etc
should all be tried for War Crimes......put in cells and forced to read that
poem by Felix Beran over and over every day !!!

But Joyce turned his back to war and violence - he was a gentle "traitor" -
lol - just joking....

I am pleased to able to assist...

Richard Taylor

PS I see "Spiel" has hundreds of meanings around "play" etc in my big
battered German dictionary....one of the "gross" of  "battered books"


----- Original Message -----
From: "Irving Weiss" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: Who wrote this? It is in 'The Making of Ulysses'


Thank you, Richard Taylor, and I do remember now the occasion, decades back,
on which I saw the poem in The Making of Ulysses. My German is adequate
enough to translate the poem literally as

And now comes the war (3x)
Now they are all soldiers, i.e., Now everyon a soldier
Soldiers must die.
Die they must.
Who will now kiss
My white body

Actually, ³leib² is body, ³lieb² is the adjective for ³dear,² from the noun
³liebe² for love.

Bully for The Poetics List and gratitude to you.

Irving
Irving Weiss
www.irvingweiss.com




On 1/8/05 5:16 AM, "Richard Taylor"  wrote:

> This is in "The Making of Ulysses " by Frank Budgeon it is  poem by the
> Viennese poet Felix Beran -  a friend of Joyce's in Zurich. Joyce told
> Budgeon about it in about 1918 - it was  the only poem re war that
> interested Joyce - then
>
> It goes    Und nun ist kommen der Krieg der Kreig
>                x 3
>
>    Then      Nun sind sie alle Soldaten
>                 x3
>   The        Soldaten mussen sterben
>                x 3
>                      Sterben mussen sie
>   Then       Wer wird nun kussen
>                 x 3
>                   Meiner weissen Leib
>
> I had read this only  a few days ago  and was reading that book and
> another
> called  "Our Friend James Joyce  " as  i found them while sorting out some
> of my books.
>
> My daughter's boyfriend -partner  -whatever: is German  -but from  here I
> dont know what it means  Krieg means games?  - Leib = body. Soldaten =
> soldiers ... I think   'kussen' is kissing.
>
> I would be interested in what it says in English
>
> I just noticeed this : "The word "Lieb" (body) moved him to
> enthusaism......."
>
> Richard Taylor
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Henrike Lichtenberg" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 4:07 AM
> Subject: Re: Who wrote this?
>
>
> could this be a strophe from "lilli marlen" ("vor der kaserne" lalala)?
> writer of the original text was Hans Leip. but the passage you quote does
> not seem to be in it.
>
> best, h_
>
>
>
> Does anyone know who wrote a poem containing the following lines, more or
> less as in my faulty German:
>
> Und nun ist kommen der krieg, der krieg (repeat three times?) wer wilt nun
> küssen mein weisses leib?
>
> Comes from WWI period and I vaguely remember seeing it in connection with
> something about Joyce.
>
> Irving Weiss
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
> Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193
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>
>
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 05:32:59 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      =?us-ascii?Q?RE:_PixelByPixel:_Durieu_and_Birge?=
In-Reply-To:  
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> jim; this is an amazingly clear and helpful answer to all such
> questions. i feel like forwarding it to my colleagues, my normy
> poetry friends, etc., not in any spirit of polemical defense of
> alterity but simply as a clear and "scientific" explanation of the
> permeable borders of "language." thanks!

ha, happy to make some sense for a change! it seems like quite a long-term
thing, doesn't it. i mentioned godel's work from the thirties in
mathematics/logic, and that is a kind of major transition point concerning
our understanding of language, having, as it does, relation with the later
development of computers and their impact on approaches to and uses of
language (not to mention the epistemological consequences of godel's work
concerning the limits of knowledge via his incompleteness theorems). but,
also, in poetry, oulipo and language poetry are both (aren't they?), to some
extent, dealing with permeable and expanding borders of language not solely
within the field of poetry but in response to some sort of awareness that
the fusion of language and number into information has been completely
destabilizing the "borders of "language"". On the extreme end, there seem to
be quite a few contemporary physicists who believe that, basically, there is
no matter but that, instead, somehow it is all information, it's all kind of
universal machine poetry, dynamo with a big o.

ja
http://vispo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:35:35 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Craig Allen Conrad 
Subject:      PROTEST notes from DC inauguration...
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Went down to DC with my friends Matt and Nicole
to protest at the inauguration celebration, and
those notes are here:  http://phillysound.blogspot.com

One of the things that's really bugging me though is
the continued support of Hillary Clinton.  While driving
back to Philly from DC we were listening to Air America,
or whatever that new left radio show is.  And I like the
show for the most part, and am very glad it exists, but
I just can't get over how many pardons Clinton gets!

She looks good from a distance, but then you see her
in documentaries about Wall Mart and Sam Walton and
she's making statements like, "What a GREAT American
Sam Walton is!"  And a chill goes shooting up the spine!

NOT to mention the fact that SHE SAID she was going
to stand beside Boxer on January 6th to contest the
election results, but then backed down.  As did Obama,
Kennedy, Kerry(!) and others.  But Boxer came through,
and it was nice seeing the pro Boxer signs at the protest.

The Democrats are such a pack of cowards!  And to be
honest I expected to see some pro Clinton signs at the
protest in DC, but I didn't see a single one.  It was all the
people on the radio on the drive home that made me crazy,
talking about the inauguration, and how they wish it was
Hillary Clinton being inaugurated.

I'm NOT saying Hillary Clinton would have gone into Iraq,
I'm just saying she's not the Messiah so many want her
to be.  Let's replay the images of her APPLAUDING Bush
not too long ago during his speech about the Patriot Act
and invading Iraq.  She DIDN'T HAVE TO applaud.  There
were no applause police there making her applaud.  And
Ted Kennedy sat there with his arms folded, but yet, still
I say, WHERE WAS TED on January 6th!?

Anyway, I'm so sick of Hillary Clinton, and I'm not convinced
she's any less a lying politician than her heart attack husband.

CAConrad
http://phillysound.blogspot.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:40:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Anastasios Kozaitis 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Anastasios Kozaitis 
Subject:      Re: Reviews of Books I like 177 Wilson Avenue
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
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The Billion Freedoms

Yes, then, always, as the rain, a star,
Or snow, the snow, snow,
Faces in the village, many dead on the roads
Of Europe, guns, go, yell, fall, O wait, what
Does life do, I know, knew, go mad, life goes
Mad, as the gentle rain, run, as the cold death
Comes into, into you, into the
Star-being man, is it quiet, quiet in the ground,
I grin, gunned silly, noble, it is noble to be part
Of, of the lie, it is a lie, war is, war is a lie,
What else is war, war is also a lie, love is not
A lie, love is greater, O love is greater
Than war, wake my brothers, love is not a, lie,
Live, as the earth, as the, sun,
Stand in the beautiful, be, as the clean, full, fine,
Strong lives stood, hated, mocked, despised, drowned
In the sewers of poverty,
And in the sewers of State, as Christ was, for
He believed in life,
He believed in love, and in death, war, and greed,
He did not believe, and any man who speaks
Of a Christian war, or of war as the savior
Of anything, that man is a liar, and
A, murderer, for no man can acquire position,
Or goods, or self righteousness
In a lie, except he be himself an enemy of truth,
And life, and God,
And a defiler in the temple of his kind, faces
in the villages of the world, millions dead
On the roads in Europe, what sin against reason
Is this, that they fought, fight, in a war
To save the evils
That cause war, for war is no evil
To those who have warred against the people,
And against truth, always, what crime
Against the soul of man is this, this fraud,
This mockery of life, that what is cheapest,
And dirtiest, and most debased, is thus smugly
Stamped on the forehead of, Christ, Who said,
Says, in the authority of God, thou shalt not
Kill, or take from another, O what are men
For, or God, now, as the light, and the good,
And the truth, and the love of one poor creature
For his fellow, fall, and the grandeur
Of mankind, like a blind snake,
Crawls, on its belly, into the slimy
pit of oblivion, yes, then, always, as the rain,
A star, or as a fire burning forever in, all men.


--Kenneth Patchen
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:45:47 -0500
Reply-To:     Anastasios Kozaitis 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Anastasios Kozaitis 
Subject:      Re: Bush's inaugural address exposed
In-Reply-To:  
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OAF OF OFFICE
Thursday, January 20, 2005
by Greg Palast

Watching John Kerry lip-synch the oath of office, I couldn't help
wondering, 'what if.'

Here on stage in Washington was the winner-class warmed and protected
by cashmere and tax cuts against the strange, nipple-chilling cold.
Hell had frozen over.

 Our President said, "It is the policy of the United States to seek
and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in
every nation." Well, no, it isn't.

Our President said, "We will widen retirement savings and health
insurance." No, he won't.

Our President said, "America will not pretend that jailed dissidents
prefer their chains." Yes, he will.

Our President said, "And our country must abandon all the habits of
racism." Oh, sure.

He doesn't believe a single word he's saying. And all over America,
everyone knows he's lying and America is truly relieved.

America doesn't want to give up the habit of racism. Karl Rove
doesn't. Jeb Bush doesn't. If not for challenging hundreds of
thousands of voters in Black precincts of Ohio and other swing states,
if not for purging thousands more from voter rolls for the crime of
voting while Black, you wouldn't be president now, would you, Mr.
President?

You won't "pretend that jailed dissidents prefer their chains," unless
they are chained by your buck-buddies in Saudi Arabia.

You'll "support democratic movements" so long as the citizens of
Venezuela don't get carried away and decide that democracy means they
can choose a leader you don't like.

And you'll "widen Social Security and health insurance"? Who are you
kidding? I just got a doctor bill for $5,200 =E2=80=A6 should I send it to =
you
at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue?

You said, "You have seen that life is fragile, and evil is real, and
courage triumphs." What you meant was, "Courage is fragile and real
evil triumphs." Indeed your entire campaign was about American
cowardice: "they" are coming to get us. Americans, scared for their
lives, soiled their underpants and waddled to the polls crying,
"Georgie, save us!"

Franklin Roosevelt said in his inaugural, "We have nothing to fear but
fear itself." But he didn't have Dick Cheney creating from his bunker
a government which is little more than a Wal-Mart of Fear: midnight
snatchings of citizens for uncharged crimes, wars to hunt for
imaginary weapons aimed at Los Angeles, DNA data banks of kids and
grandmas, the Chicken Little sky-is-falling social security
spook-show, and shoe-searches in airports. Fear is your only product.

In another world, in which all votes are counted, J.F. Kerry would
have gathered most of those arcane chits called "electoral votes" and
would have taken that oath today.

But, dear Reader, there's one cold statistic Kerry voters must face.
The fact that Republicans monkeyed with the votes in swing states
doesn't wash away that big red stain: 59 million Americans marched to
the polls and voted for George W. Bush.

If bin Laden doesn't scare you, THAT should.=20

Because if 59 million Americans agreed with George Bush that every
millionaire's son, like him, shouldn't have to pay inheritance taxes;
that sucking up to Saudi petrocrats constitutes a foreign policy; that
killing Muslims in Mesopotamia will make them less inclined to kill us
in Manhattan; that turning over social security to the casino
operators that gave us Enron, WorldCom and world depression is smart
economics; then, fine, Mr. Bush deserves the job. But most Americans,
bless'm, don't actually believe any of that hokum. YET MOST STILL
VOTED FOR HIM!

What we witnessed on November 2, 2004 was a 59-million strong army of
pinheads on parade ready to gamble away their social security so long
as George Bush makes sure that boys kill each other, not kiss each
other; who feel right proud that our uniformed services can kick some
scrawny brown people in the ass in some far off place when we're mad
and can't find Osama; who can't bring themselves to vote for a guy
with a snooty Boston accent who's never been to a NASCAR tractor pull
and who certainly thinks anyone who does is a low-Q beer-burping
blockhead. And they are.

Today we witnessed more than the coronation of some privileged little
munchkin of mendacity. It is the triumphal re-occupation of our nation
by nitwits who think Ollie North's a hero not a conman, who can't name
their congressman, who believe that Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden
were going steady, who can't tell Afghanistan from Souvlaki-stan.
Bloated with lies and super-size fries, they clomped to the polls 59
million strong to vent their small-minded little hatreds on us all.

When I looked today at the oaf of office, I could not shake the
feeling that this election was an intelligence test that America
flunked.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:54:02 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Leslie Scalapino 
Subject:      Scalapino, Elrick, Iijima read in Brooklyn
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Leslie Scalapino is reading with two fine poets,=20

Laura Elrick and Brenda Iijima on Thursday, Jan 27th=20

at 7:00 PM at SPOONBILL & SUGARTOWN BOOKSTORE,=20

218 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11211.=20

L Train to Bedford Ave. Tel. 718.387.7322.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:56:38 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
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   Words are seals of the mind, results -- or, more correctly, stations -=
- of
an infinite series of experiences, which reach from an unimaginably dista=
nt
past into the present ... They are the 'audible that clings to the
inaudible'...  =

   The essential nature of words is therefore neither exhausted by their
present meaning, nor is their importance confined to their usefulness as
transmitters of thoughts and ideas, but they express at the same time
qualities which are not translatable into concepts -- just as a melody wh=
ich,
though it may be associated with a conceptual meaning, cannot be describe=
d by
words or by any other medium of expression.  And it is just that irration=
al
quality which stirs up our deepest feelings, elevates our innermost being=
, and
makes it vibrate with others. =

   The magic which poetry exerts upon us, is due to this quality and the
rhythm combined therewith.  It is stronger than what the words convey
objectively -- stronger even than reason with all its logic, in which we
believe so firmly ...
   If art can be called the re-creation and formal expression of reality
through the medium of human experience, then the creation of language may=
 be
called the greatest achievement of art.  Each word originally was a focus=
 of
energies, in which the transformation of reality into the vibrations of t=
he
human voice -- the vital expression of the human soul -- took place.

              -- Angarika Govinda, Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism =



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:30:44 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Rebecca Seiferle 
Subject:      Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
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Thanks for this quote, Jon, and I meant to thank you for the other quote from
Yeats which I thought about for some time. I particularly like this, many things
in it--each word a focus of energies, that irrational quality, that infinite series,
seals of the mind--resonate with me and I'll keep thinking about this quote too,
so thanks,

best,

Rebecca
  ---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:56:38 -0800
>From: Jon Corelis 
>Subject: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
>
>   Words are seals of the mind, results -- or, more correctly, stations -- of
>an infinite series of experiences, which reach from an unimaginably distant
>past into the present ... They are the 'audible that clings to the
>inaudible'...
>   The essential nature of words is therefore neither exhausted by their
>present meaning, nor is their importance confined to their usefulness as
>transmitters of thoughts and ideas, but they express at the same time
>qualities which are not translatable into concepts -- just as a melody which,
>though it may be associated with a conceptual meaning, cannot be described
by
>words or by any other medium of expression.  And it is just that irrational
>quality which stirs up our deepest feelings, elevates our innermost being, and
>makes it vibrate with others.
>   The magic which poetry exerts upon us, is due to this quality and the
>rhythm combined therewith.  It is stronger than what the words convey
>objectively -- stronger even than reason with all its logic, in which we
>believe so firmly ...
>   If art can be called the re-creation and formal expression of reality
>through the medium of human experience, then the creation of language may
be
>called the greatest achievement of art.  Each word originally was a focus of
>energies, in which the transformation of reality into the vibrations of the
>human voice -- the vital expression of the human soul -- took place.
>
>              -- Angarika Govinda, Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism
>
>
>=====================================
>Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org
>
>    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
>=====================================
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:48:33 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
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My thanks to Rebecca Seiferle for her response.  (The Yeats quote she ref=
ers
to actually was posted to another list than poetics.  If anyone's interes=
ted
in it I'll send it here too.)

Trying to think through the Govinda remarks:

If this view of poetry is correct, then poetry must be defined as the art=

whose material is utterance, and utterance must be taken in the strict se=
nse: =

words physically spoken aloud.  This in turn implies that if someone writ=
es a
text on the assumption that others are going to read it silently, that te=
xt
cannot be considered poetry, just as, if someone writes a musical score, =
not
as something for musicians to play, but as something for readers of score=
s to
examine visually, then that production cannot reasonably be considered mu=
sic. =

And this implies that most of the poetry being written in English today,
really isn't.

The above view of poetry may seem eccentric and extreme, but through much=
 of
human history it would have been too obvious to need saying.  The idea th=
at
what a poem really is, is the text that embodies it, is a modern inventio=
n,
which to much of past culture would have seemed as weird as the idea that=
 what
Beethoven's Fifth Symphony really is, is the score to it.  The degenerati=
on of
poem into text is the great source of the failure of poetry in our time.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:45:06 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      CONTROL SITES
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CONTROL SITES


HONEY: "No giving and no speaking. He wandered about in the meadow; I
pulled him up short. He could peer down my dress! He foreswore sex, but he
couldn't help looking. Wrything tends towards argument, aggression,
pathos, empathy, flaming, desire, net sex of labor which molds it. And an
eight-year-old breaker boy in the anthracite mines is far less innocent
than an eight-year-old breaking in to alt.sex.bondage gifs. The man
thinks, she is the hole of philosophy. He has invested time against her
space. She will construct her sex, she thinks. He is in time. I too refuse
to die, the only linkage between the two of us, refuse, as, uh, the
writing shoves itself out between my legs, one sex, uh, one hole or
another and swollen holes, penises, aureoles, vaginas, asses, complexions,
finger-nails, cuticles, hair, breasts held perfectly in place, nipples
always erect. America produces erections; sex love of viagra-chemical
love. taking viagra, a singular and misshapen element or entity. the
signature of our sex: typical; other than liquidity, a sign of the dreams
to come, there was the uncanny. The body floods into control sites,
partial determinations. The control sites hold it at the origin. One can
recite one's day in either medium, but the nuances are obviously absent.
It's double penetration, like the double-coding of language itself. It's
not fucking, though. It can't be grasped. It isn't sex. It's isn't
anything. It's an arrangement, between myself and the avatar, the ends of
the earth, I want to fuck your wives and daughters, steal your money,
throw you out in the street, garbage! garbage! Straight, I see how THEY
pervert the idea of sex, Christ, and affairs we are not allowed to shut
the doors of our offices if there is a student of any degree of opposition
sex within. the halls of the department of art are filled with television
cameras and Sex ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh:
ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh:  ooh:
ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh: ooh:
ooh: ooh: ooh: oo the chaotic -we're at the base of everything -the
foundation -we're hurtling 80 miles an hour, exposed -5 theoretical turns
-the body of sex, sexual body -writing or imagining the body of the
other."

TRAVIS: "Pushing language to the reader so the body appears to be at
stake: Think of writing orgasm in net-sex ooh: ooh: ooH when writing
becomes sound or substance o much as turn from me. My gun will speak
Eternity. You dream of me, blame it on me. Your sex is me, my gun you'll
see. I'm only here to beg, obey. The gun makes, our sex will be our arms
and legs and minds. We'll pull our dresses up. We'll smell of the
corporate state: slaves and slavers, violated and violaters, the
over-populated world. Human-species bloom into impure substance, rubs sex
raw against north-american-european."

RADIO: "anna:nana:oracular
hat:telephony:ok_guv:cyberpain:Richard:natch:1175:2:Coll:Richard:telephony
real:image:uncanny:dirty:splay:sex:sex:1241:4:sex:sex:real"

RADIO: "anna:nana:oracular
hat:telephony:ok_guv:cyberpain:Richard:natch:1175:2:Coll:Richard:telephony
real:image:uncanny:dirty:splay:sex:sex:1241:4:sex:sex:real"

HONEY: "Truth. Oh fuck. I do this shame have, I am ashame. Here and
broken. Are you afraid of sex? I do so cower. I can speak hardly. My
tongue is rippe. Ashame opened my holes. My mouth filled with blood. I was
spokensible, exposing my hole." I would open myself to the screen, an uh,
the writing shoves itself out between my legs, one sex, uh and swollen
holes, penises, aureoles, vaginas, asses, complexions, finger-nails,
cuticles, hair, breasts held perfectly in place, nipples always erect.
America produces erections; sex my legs for you, I have no secrets, my
mouth, my ass are open, wide cunt, hard cock - You can write this,
sexless, of every sex, every _preposition_ You can have me, have my love.
You can have me, have my love."

_
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:38:18 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Joe Brennan 
Subject:      G.W. Bush's Inaugural Speech/Mass Extinction Tied to Address
Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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 Click here: The Assassinated Press
http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/

Mass Extinction Tied to Bush's Inaugural Address:
Greenhouse Effect Due To U.S. Consumption, Perpetual War Cited in Mass
Decline Over Next 25 Months:
'Freedom's' Just Another Word For Nothing Left To Steal:
Paleo-Creationist Timetable Predicts 'Endtime' Coincides With Bush's Second
Term:
Bush Frequently Cited The Bible's Book Of Mammon In Inaugural Speech:
THE RAPTURE--The Ultimate 'GUILT TRIP'?
GEE DE GUYLIEALOTTIE

G.W. Bush's Inaugural Speech
By KAREN HUGHES, RICHAED PERLE, LT. GEN. WILLIAM G. "JERRY" BOYKIN, ELLIOTT
ABRAMS, KARL ROVE, ARIEL SHARON, 'KENNY BOY' LAY, DR. PHIL, KINDASLEAZIE RICE,
ALFONS HECK, MICHAEL ANTON, TONY BLAIR et al

The Anti-Empire Report, No. 17
By WILLIAM BLUM





They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.

".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in
the
sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful
language
of power.  There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or
hypocritical,
whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks.  The dominating
impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed
good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured

forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter
house.
One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first
giving
free reign to this hubbub of voices...."
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:20:51 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Charles Bernstein 
Subject:      Disfrutes
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*Disfrutes* (1974), first published by Potes and Poets Press in 1981, is
now available as an EPC Digital Edition

http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/new.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:33:39 +1000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         K Zervos 
Subject:      =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_PixelByPixel:_Durieu_and_Birg=E9?=
In-Reply-To:  
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|||JIM
|||I think that PixelByPixel has much more interesting
|||generative/compositional
|||possibilities than anything you are likely to find in Clauss or =
Strasser,
|||both of whose work I have written about and admire (s:
|||http://www.turbulence.org/curators/media2/strasser.htm , c:
|||http://turbulence.org/curators/Paris/claussenglish.htm ).

*KOMNINOS
i disagree, but then i'm not a programmer, and can't appreciate its
programming qualities like you can.
Your writings about clauss, strasser and durieu are structural analyses =
of
the code and their construction.
You see a work and ask how was it done, i see a work and ask what has it
done to me?


|||It requires not only a programmer but someone who likes to think of
|||'language' to create programming which opens up interesting
|||generative/compositional possibilities.=20

However a programmer uses a vocabulary that has been chosen from =
language, a
small chunk of language, strictly defines the meaning of each word in =
the
vocabulary removing ambiguity, and then constructs a world that is =
totally
defined and predictable.=20


You can see one of the roles of
|||'language' here: works that have rich generative/compositional =
possibs
|||allow
|||the wreader to at least influence the concatenations/layers of sound
|||and/or
|||visuals.=20

*K
Like de saussere, who separated language from life, programming has
separated out its language from life. We can not assume programming =
language
is synonymous with language in life, or use these word interchangeably.
Certainly this work allows the end-user to interact and have influence =
on
the visuals and aurals and their combinations, and we don't see the code
(most of us, you probably do) but if we watch it long enough, because of =
the
defined nature of the meaning of the code, it will become predictable =
and
totally understandable. Something that can't be said of language in =
life.

|||But concatenations of what? And how are the layers structured?
|||And
|||how are the concatenations arrived at? And the layering also? =
Together,
|||these schema form a kind of language of sound and/or visuals. When I
|||listen
|||to PixelByPixel, part of what I listen for is the compositional range =
and
|||the nature of what is composed. Does it always sound the same? How =
much
|||range does it have? Is what it generates/allows composition of an
|||interesting type of sound? What is the conception of music therein? =
What
|||is
|||the language of love?
|||So although there is no English language going on here, the creative
|||investigation of sonic and visual language is actually rather
|||sophisticated,

*K=20
i am aware of the poly semiotic nature of interpretation afforded in =
this
new medium, and as you point out your familiarity with the aural signs =
are
more sophisticated than mine. My sign system of preference is textual.

|||Komninos. For instance the musical language is a matter beyond =
timbre. It
|||is
|||structural. A grammar.

*K
Once again i'm not such a huge fan of adoring how things work. And being =
a
poet grammar was always the enemy.
=20
|||
|||You see, 'language' and our understanding of it is being transformed. =



*K
i do see how our understanding of language is being transformed, but =
here
you are talking of language as a system of communication, and our system =
of
communication, and we, realise the importance of the many different =
semiotic
systems in interpreting language and life.


In
|||large part because of the central role of language as a subject of =
study
|||of
|||mathematics over the last seventy years (basically since Godel). When =
one
|||studies theoretical Computer Science, what one studies centrally are =
the
|||formal properties of language. One may ask whether computers are =
number
|||processing devices or language processing devices. The answer is that
|||they
|||are profoundly both, and the profundity is in the connection between =
the
|||two.

*K
This is exactly my point, programming makes language a mathematical =
formula,
and it is not.

|||
|||Language is relevant to DNA and to all programmed processes, to all =
the
|||processes of life. And art.

*K
i would say life is relevant to all languages.

And i would say life is relevant all art.

|||Consequently, poetry, which we associate with
|||intensest engagement with language, begins to move from what it has =
been
|||through these other languages and engagements. Poetry is the ghost in =
the
|||machine, moves through intensest engagement with language, which by =
now
|||can
|||be quite other than what we have known as poetry.

My original question was,
> Please explain how you see the poetry in this, there are no letters, =
no
> words, written or sounded to want to make me interpret this work in a
> textual way.
> The piece is engaging, but i would have a hard time calling it
> music, visual
> art, or poetry.



*K=20
i leave you with two quotes from your own interview with durieu;

"A poem is a text that procures you poetry if you read it. The code I'm
trying to write is a text that procures you poetry if a computer reads =
it
for you...."


"I like the power of mathematics.=20

But i always try to hide this aspect in my work.

Mathematics is only an easy tool to build all my toys.

(I say toy and not game because I don't like applications where you need =
to
win.)"


cheers
komninos




|||
|||ja
|||http://vispo.com
|||
|||--
|||No virus found in this incoming message.
|||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
|||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/05
|||

--=20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 21/01/05
=20
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:38:20 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      quote....
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

if we are to follow this logic
the reproduction of the drawing
is more than...



the inner voice sings
not the tongue....


listen...quiet....

what is done  here
should be left here...

drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:53:22 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      Codework Self-Negated
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Codework Self-Negated


If not for self-negation, codework remains within formal structures,
broken, chaotic, or otherwise. It's semantics that opens up the universe
of discourse; at the same time, semantics shuts down or bypasses the
structures. The problematization of language rises by itself as
symbolically or indexically generated; the ikonic fades, varies from
workstation to workstation. The work of the viewer lies not in the
decipherment of the structure, but within the assemblage of insistent
content through and in spite of the structure. Anything else resonates
with already tried and tired conceptualist attitudes, where teleology
tended towards perfection, and the horizon was a closed set of usually
well-defined, often countable, elements. In every case, energy and habitus
are required for creation, sustaining, transmission; this is necessarily a
substructural contamination that forms illicit ties with the semantics,
feeds into it. Not a closed universe of discourse, then, but a holarchic
sememe or neural structuring that opens elsewhere with axons tending the
real, i.e. the stewardship of the real. Thus codework becomes a model of
universal political economy, complete with filtering, censorship,
distribution, equivalencies, duplications - but also cries, wars, fucks,
furies, talks sought and talks returned.

Second to the extent that meaning is always already a construct, neither
scaffold nor sememic tissue are construed from transcendence, i.e., agency
is necessary for the completion of a circuit which may or may not occur.
Agency always produces circuitry. The habitus creates decipherment in any
case, formal or informal, skeletal or meat-driven. So it is a question of
history and the history of agency. The self-negation of codework occurs
within this history and this agency. The self-negation is an aesthetic
drive occasioned by the work, largely subconscious. The decipherment
results in a hardening of meaning, just as a riddle is hardened by its
solution. Of codework there is no solution. Of cries, wars, fucks, furies,
talks sought and talks returned, there is no solution.

There is no solution of meaning, nothing to be wagered, at stake, nothing
granted. Meaning stumbles through the code of the codework, meaning is the
vegetable of the mineral code, the production of the animal in the twenty
questions of the riddle. Animal, vegetable, mineral, all are contaminated
by agency. Agency does not resolve. Self-negation is parasitic, the
construct of unrepentant, unresolved agency. The content is the chaotic
mix. Structure sits at the bar, content the blood-stain on the floor. The
crime of codework: meaning oozes. It needs the hydraulics of the code. It
is of the code, attaches itself to the sememe. Contamination of the
sememe: the sememe. The content and meaning of codework is contamination.
The riddle is resonant. Unresolved contamination cries, fucks, furies,
talks, expends, empties.


_
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:12:16 -0800
Reply-To:     ishaq1823@shaw.ca
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ishaq 
Organization: selah7
Subject:      Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 vision
              Investigates
In-Reply-To:  <20050120041151.EGZZ28025.out001.verizon.net@YOUR6DDD04B03A>
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"do men think that they will be left alone, saying 'we believe,' without
being tested?"
-- to imam ali on martyrdom -- nahjul balaaghah

http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/


Richard Jeffrey Newman wrote:

>In response to Richard Taylor, who wrote:
>
>
>
>>>they will use suicide bombs/ambushes /they will tunnel though the sand
>>>
>>>
>under US bases and kill hundreds of young soldiers /they will kill men women
>children - anything to disrupt/anyone who cooperates or is in the way is a
>tagret -anyone - - it has to happen/ they must win - it is a fight for their
>independence as than US fought the British - anything to rid their country
>of a foreign alien culture and a fascist invader - toting guns and looking
>like Darth Vaders  from one of the most psychotic and sick nations on God's
>earth -anyone in Iraq who cooperates with US is a traitor and deserves death
>!! Or worse - humiliation.  Nothing else....<<
>
>Alison Croggon wrote:
>
>
>
>>>It's not simple, and there's agendas beyond "self defence of a nation"
>>>
>>>
>happening there and many internal conflicts.  Sunni extremists are busy
>bombing Shias, who happen to be the majority population; Sistani, the most
>influential Shia cleric, was notably quiet on the razing of Falluja late
>last year.<<
>
>It's worth pointing out that one can be categorically opposed to the US
>occupation and opposed to one or more of the groups that is fighting that
>occupation on the grounds that the group's agenda is itself, on its own
>terms, questionable. Not only does it romanticize the meaning of military
>occupation, what it means to be an occupied people, to assume that all those
>who fight against the occupation are allies at some level that transcends
>both the differences between them and the moral and ethical content of their
>agenda(s) on its/their own terms. It also allows those of us who are not
>there, in the conflict, to opt out of dealing with the complexities of the
>reality on the ground. Case in point: One can believe categorically that
>Israel should withdraw from the occupied territories; one can understand the
>logic behind/inevitability of suicide bombers as a means of fighting the
>occupation--and one might even support them--but that does not mean that all
>the groups that employ suicide bombing as a method of resistance are equally
>deserving of that understanding and support. Hamas has stated plainly not
>only that it's goal is the elimination of Israel, but also that it intends
>to establish a Muslim theocracy in the land that is now Israel and
>Palestine. (I may have the specifics of the geography wrong--it's been a
>while since I looked at Hamas' charter--but the general point is still the
>same.) These are two goals that should give anyone pause because they mean
>that Hamas' interest is not Palestinian self-determination; it is not
>freedom and secular democracy. Their goal is a religiously nationalistic
>one--their charter reads spookily like statemtents of Zionist purpose that I
>have read elsewhere--and so it actually obscures a very difficult reality to
>suggest that all Palestinian resistance to the Israeli occupation is freedom
>fighting. The same is true about making those kinds of statements about
>those in Iraq who are fighting the US occupation.
>
>Rich Newman
>
>
>

--
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{\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;}
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\f0\fs24 \cf0 \
___\
Stay Strong\
\
 "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \
--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\
\
"This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\
of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\
--HellRazah\
\
"It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\
--Mutabartuka\
\
"As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \
our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \
actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\
 - Frantz Fanon\
\
"Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\
-Imam Ja'far Sadiq\
\
http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\
\
http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \
\
http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\
\
http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\
\
}
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:15:28 -0500
Reply-To:     marcus@designerglass.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Marcus Bales 
Subject:      Re: Codework Self-Negated
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Using the techniques of "poetry of erasure", "found poetry", "random-
word poetry", "dictionary substitution poetry", and a unique
algorhythm of my own, I've changed this poem:

On 22 Jan 2005 at 20:53, Alan Sondheim wrote:
> Codework Self-Negated
> If not for self-negation, codework remains within formal structures,
> broken, chaotic, or otherwise. It's semantics that opens up the
> universe of discourse; at the same time, semantics shuts down or
> bypasses the structures. The problematization of language rises by
> itself as symbolically or indexically generated; the ikonic fades,
> varies from workstation to workstation. The work of the viewer lies
> not in the decipherment of the structure, but within the assemblage of
> insistent content through and in spite of the structure. Anything else
> resonates with already tried and tired conceptualist attitudes, where
> teleology tended towards perfection, and the horizon was a closed set
> of usually well-defined, often countable, elements. In every case,
> energy and habitus are required for creation, sustaining,
> transmission; this is necessarily a substructural contamination that
> forms illicit ties with the semantics, feeds into it. Not a closed
> universe of discourse, then, but a holarchic sememe or neural
> structuring that opens elsewhere with axons tending the real, i.e. the
> stewardship of the real. Thus codework becomes a model of universal
> political economy, complete with filtering, censorship, distribution,
> equivalencies, duplications - but also cries, wars, fucks, furies,
> talks sought and talks returned.
>
> Second to the extent that meaning is always already a construct,
> neither scaffold nor sememic tissue are construed from transcendence,
> i.e., agency is necessary for the completion of a circuit which may or
> may not occur. Agency always produces circuitry. The habitus creates
> decipherment in any case, formal or informal, skeletal or meat-driven.
> So it is a question of history and the history of agency. The
> self-negation of codework occurs within this history and this agency.
> The self-negation is an aesthetic drive occasioned by the work,
> largely subconscious. The decipherment results in a hardening of
> meaning, just as a riddle is hardened by its solution. Of codework
> there is no solution. Of cries, wars, fucks, furies, talks sought and
> talks returned, there is no solution.
>
> There is no solution of meaning, nothing to be wagered, at stake,
> nothing granted. Meaning stumbles through the code of the codework,
> meaning is the vegetable of the mineral code, the production of the
> animal in the twenty questions of the riddle. Animal, vegetable,
> mineral, all are contaminated by agency. Agency does not resolve.
> Self-negation is parasitic, the construct of unrepentant, unresolved
> agency. The content is the chaotic mix. Structure sits at the bar,
> content the blood-stain on the floor. The crime of codework: meaning
> oozes. It needs the hydraulics of the code. It is of the code,
> attaches itself to the sememe. Contamination of the sememe: the
> sememe. The content and meaning of codework is contamination. The
> riddle is resonant. Unresolved contamination cries, fucks, furies,
> talks, expends, empties.

into the following poem of my own:

When you are bald

When you are bald and old, and what's not bald is gray,
And fine firm muscle flops in rolls of fat
Beneath your yellowed, liver-spotted skin;
When loud, wet, wracking coughs begin your day
And wheezing weakness often knocks you flat
While constant tremors waggle every chin;
When rheumy eyes and short-term memories fail
To conjure names of relatives or friends,
And you no longer smell the smell of stale
Old urine leaking out of your Depends;
When all your teeth are gone, and Jello ends
Up drooling from your lips in a bubbling trail;
When only hope of death soothes your distress
My passion for you won't be one whit less.

Marcus Bales
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:36:35 -0800
Reply-To:     ishaq1823@shaw.ca
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ishaq 
Organization: selah7
Subject:      Prof sets forth =?windows-1252?Q?=91How_Islam_Plans_to_C?=
              =?windows-1252?Q?hange_the_World=92_?=
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT

N.B. i would add to the following that, after years of research, that
out of the 3 ot the 6 listed as having an "overall mega-stategy of
growth" that only 1 can be considered a fatal threat, or more a tool,
with bad intentions and detriment to intellectuals, freethought and
expression, society and culture as a whole and has served as a
destructive force whose bait was and is self-indulgence and supremacy
within every society it has "penetrated".


"Four years ago, Wagner set out to research six groups and their
missiological strategies for growth: the Assemblies of God denomination,
homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Muslims and the Southern
Baptist Convention. Further into his research, he discovered that only
three of the six had an overall mega-strategy of growth –- homosexuals,
Mormons and Muslims."



Prof sets forth ‘How Islam Plans to Change the World’
By Lauri Arnold
Jan 19, 2005

MILL VALLEY, Calif. (BP)--In the weeks and months that followed Sept.
11, 2001, churches across America reported a high increase in the number
of attendees -- and so did mosques across America.

“9/11 was a wakeup call. Suddenly people began to say, ‘What is Islam?’
and it was quite amazing after 9/11 that Muslims began saying, ‘Come to
the mosque and find out what Islam is,’” said William Wagner, professor
of missions at Golden Gate Theological Seminary and author of “How Islam
Plans to Change the World,” a new book from Kregel Publications.

Wagner writes in his book that Islam has grown in America as a result of
a detailed strategy that was already in place long before radical
Islamists associated with Osama Bin Laden perpetrated the tragedies of
Sept. 11.

“Islam is a world religion with a well-defined culture and a developed
strategy for taking control of the world,” Wagner writes in the preface
of the book.

One example Wagner noted was that those who went to the mosques
following Sept. 11 were told that Islam “is a religion of peace, love
and forgiveness and that there were few real terrorists in their faith,”
as Wagner put it. “They did such a convincing job that some converted
and others became vocal supporters of tolerance for Islam in their
communities.”

Four years ago, Wagner set out to research six groups and their
missiological strategies for growth: the Assemblies of God denomination,
homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Muslims and the Southern
Baptist Convention. Further into his research, he discovered that only
three of the six had an overall mega-strategy of growth –- homosexuals,
Mormons and Muslims. Even further into his research, Wagner became more
impressed with the strategy that had long been expressed and set in
motion by Islamic leaders.

Two of Wagner’s students at Golden Gate, both native Arabic speakers,
were able to read well-accepted Arabic newspapers and magazines from the
Middle East and then relate to Wagner what was being written. This
coincided with Wagner’s own research and direct discussions with Islamic
leaders.

“So much of my book is not saying, ‘This is what I as a Christian say
they are doing or they are going to do,” Wagner said. “It’s a book
saying it’s what they say they’re going to do and what they are doing.”

Part of Wagner’s research included reading documents of Islamic
strategies, such as Ayatollah Khomeini’s “Islamic Government.”

“In reading Khomeini’s Islamic Government, one has a tendency to compare
it to Adolph Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’,” Wagner writes. “Both state clearly
their grand ideas of world conquest, but people today do not take such
writings seriously. The key difference between the two is that Hitler
was an atheist while Khomeini claimed to be a man of God.”

Wagner identifies three specific tools that are utilized today in order
to keep the overall Islamic strategy in place and ultimately advance the
spread of the faith: jihad (holy war), da’wah (missions) and the
building of mosques. Wagner said now he also identifies immigration as a
fourth tool that is used, though it is not included in the book.

Wagner noted that it may seem strange to some people that the Muslim
faith is growing, both in America and beyond in light of the faith’s
link with Sept. 11, but he said the faith is growing “because they know
what they are doing.”

“I think that we need to be aware that they really are a threat to us
and that if we don’t wake up, one of these days it is going to be too
late.”

How Islam Plans to Change the World is written from a missiological
perspective rather than a theological one, Wagner noted, and it serves
as a warning for the Christian church of the “clash of civilizations”
that is already taking place between Islam and the West.

Though the book is not meant to be a condemnation of Islam, Wagner is
unapologetic about his ultimate answer to the threat posed by Islam,
since God has already revealed that Jesus Christ will be victorious in
the end. In the concluding chapter of his book, Wagner writes, “The real
antidote for the problems before us is clear. Let’s become much more
active in living out our Christian faith and proclaiming the truth as
found in Jesus Christ.”

Warner spent 32 years as a missionary with the Southern Baptist
Convention’s International Mission Board in Europe, the Middle East and
Northern Africa, including 12 years as a chairman of the Muslim
Awareness Committee of the European Baptist Federation.
--30--

http://www.bpnews.net/printerfriendly.asp?ID=19939

___\
Stay Strong\
\
"Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \
--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\
\
"This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\
of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\
--HellRazah\
\
"It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\
--Mutabartuka\
\
"As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \
our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \
actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\
- Frantz Fanon\
\
"Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\
-Imam Ja'far Sadiq\
\
http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\
\
http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \
\
http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\
\
http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\
\
}
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 02:03:19 -0500
Reply-To:     amyhappens@yahoo.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         amy king 
Subject:      FW:  Poetry Reading - NYC at A Taste of Art Cafe/Gallery
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

A Taste of Art Cafe/Gallery
Presents: STOP ME BEFORE I SPELL AGAIN!
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 2005 7-9 PM
Poets reading from their work:

Brendan Lorber (Lungfull!)
Jenny Boully (Slope)
Geoffrey Cruickshank-Hagenbuckle (Exquisite Corpse)
Africa Wayne (Tiny Pony)


Hosted byChristopher Stackhouse


Free Admission


147 Duane Street (between Church and West Broadway)
New York, NY 10013
Phone: 212.964.5493

info@atasteofart.com
www.atasteofart.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:46:36 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

white air
world w/o
sound

a white
wind
blows thru

the mind...



3:00...vhite...ery...drn..
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:11:49 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: CONTROL SITES
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

always talkin about sex.. what's it like?   sex  i mean
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:56:35 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: winter....
Comments: To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

mind?
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:59:38 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

in Siberia
my mother

would shovel
snow 'etter

than any man
'you have to see

in your mind
how to do it'

tiny hands
no force

strength of...


3:00...she wore winter white to the inauguration...drn..
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:16:24 -0800
Reply-To:     ishaq1823@shaw.ca
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ishaq 
Organization: selah7
Subject:      Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 vision
              Investigates
In-Reply-To:  <001001c4fe7f$faf3cd40$d15636d2@computer>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

peace richard,


lawrence?

i am not the one you should be addressing. for i would never fall behind
the recent COP out on civil discussion by accusing dessenters of being
either,
drug addicts, homophobes, anti-jewish, terrorist, reverse racist,
paranoids, insane or just plan muslim.

you'd have to talk to the regular amerikkkacentric hate clique pos(t)ers
who flood this list with bad art/poetry and mpegs used as supremacist
propoganda.


call a cop, dude!!! i am shocked at the crass hackism which gets posted
onto this list which i thought was supposed to be about poetry (once and
intelligent political and social voice of innovation and flex) yet
serves more for the prupose of a group of anti-intellectual bigots who
shamelessly flubbed their unILLness in the mastery of flow and hide
behind, recently, jewishness (and ADL tactricks) -- and even talkin down
on greater master flexologist they will can't hope to change a towel
roll for at roadside motel, as a last felled attempt to COP some cred
with the publishing world and few blue haired packed open mic events.

ain't sayin no names, naw

of course they feel this is a good way to hide their ignorance when
concerning topics from iraq, blacks and muslims and why they can't flow
-- b.u.t. bad verse is bad verse.

...and as the verse goes in the sign i fly in this here version --
'they are just those who pass on what is heard and most of them are
liars/and the poets and deviators follow them;'

you know who you are

i don't think that there is anything wrong with someone who calls
themself a "poet" to have passion concerning the world, the word and
social injustice.
b.u.t. i know, so it looks and susan sontag has written and uttered til
her last breath -- peace and blessings,

"The conversation among writers that takes place in the last 20 years is
for the most part just like the conversation of any other professional
people on the make. They could just as well be advertising executives or
businesspeople, or anything else. They talk about income and they talk
about the comforts or lack of comforts of their personal lives, and --
but that's a kind of -- if I think back on my own life, the single most
amazing phenomenon is the discrediting of idealism."

we don't got and will never have anymore genets, rambauds, burroughs,
vidals, eliots, duchamps, tzaras, p.smiths (ar heart she is muslim),
karen finlays, jim carrols,  j baldwins, chuck d's, barakas, rza's, mos
def's, easton eliots, r.wrights, w.c.williams. wnada colemans,
tennesses, selby jrs, dave alvins, cervenkas, d. coopers, wildes,
audens, xaviers, j cortez , shariatis or hammetts

i think it's all over or as sontag said;  "Nobody has to be a writer.
Print culture may be under siege, but there has been an enormous
inflation in the number of books printed, and very few of these could be
considered part of literature. ... Unlike what has been said here
before, for me the primary obligation is human solidarity."-- Susan
Sontag 1933 - 2004

so what we get is not the good works, good deeds or action b.u.t. a few
hacks using suntzu to canel out competition for dumbed down despearte
audience who are starved for anything somewhat readable that they have
been told will not draw attention, however, will tow the party line and
all seem oh so so cool.
this is the metaphor of invasion-- it's not tha democracy is better or
that the invaders/crusaders are good or have superior culture or peoples
which serve the good -- it's that they have p.r.  = guns -- and can
cancel out the competition. therefore, offering no choice to the
underwhelmed audience overwhelmed by brutality.

literary globalization of hack amerikkkcentrick thought (how i learned
to stop flowin and being da bomb).

"Any Rough Times Are Now Behind You - Selected Poems & Writings 1979-1995"
dave alvin -- Incommunicado ISBN 1-884615-09-0


peace

richard.tylr wrote:

>Lawrence
>
>I don't smoke and I have never used marijuana. OK I was racing and pumping
>with anger at the injustices done over there when I wrote that and off
>course I don't like to see people killed - white or black - Iraqi or
>otherwise  BUT the Iraqi liberation fighters have to struggle by whatever
>means - the loss of their land by an invading force to them is the loss of
>their life - imagine if the US had been invaded in WWll by the Japs - now
>there would be some crawlers who cooperated with them - but a patriotic
>American -and I mean a true patriot - a courageous patriot  - would join in
>a resistance against that enemy - the object being to drive that invader out
>of the US - now imagine also the US had not been particularly well armed as
>it was in the 1940s and is now - then the resistance fighters in the US
>could well- would in fact  employ ANY means to destroy the enemy
>
>Mao Tse Tung used this method - he would encourage or entice the Japanese
>further into guerrilla territory then they would secretly surround the
>Japanese soldiers - and throw fire crackers at them - unnerve them, or they
>would just charge at 4 am and they would usually kill EVERY JAP and take
>their weapons - so there was a gain - a small gain - but a gain -
>
>They won..they beat the Japanese before the US  Imperialists could get in
>there and take China...but that's another story  - you will find that the
>freedom fighters in Iraq are using similar techniques  - they will use
>suicide bombs/ambushes /they will tunnel though the sand under US bases and
>kill hundreds of young soldiers /they will kill men women children -
>anything to disrupt/anyone who cooperates or is in the way is a
>tagret -anyone - - it has to happen/ they must win - it is a fight for their
>independence as than US fought the British - anything to rid their country
>of a foreign alien culture and a fascist invader - toting guns and looking
>like Darth Vaders  from one of the most psychotic and sick nations on God's
>earth -anyone in Iraq who cooperates with US is a traitor and deserves death
>!! Or worse - humiliation.  Nothing else ...now suicide bombing isn't
>necessarily the best method as one of your soldiers (freedom fighters)
>dies - that is a loss of one - but if you can kill a greater number of the
>invaders or their collaborators that is a gain
>
>I dont care if you think I am sick - and I'm not interested in what is on
>Silliman's Blog (well I am  - I am intersted i his poetics - he very bright
>guy  -- and a great poet -lo l- dont want to throw the baby out iwth
>bathwater !!) (I do admire his poetry - his work but not his politics) he
>was all for invading Afghanistan - he and Perloff - and Antin - I think he
>called the Arabs/Moslems whoever etc rats (that sounds bizzare maybe Antin
>was being ironic or something - we all say things...) - you can look back to
>2001 on the List  when 9/11 happened (as I aalso admire especially Antin;s
>talk poems and Perloff's critical writings -great writing I think): But look
>at this it was in a local mag called Brief in NZ:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------------------------
>Scott:  In your China poems you sometimes seem to look back at the New
>Zealand natural landscape with affection.
>
>Hamish:  For me, landscape is always something which is inanimate. And it is
>usually malign...remember, I moved about in China itself, moved from the
>sticks to the coast and took jobs teaching English, without the literature
>thing. Finished my Masters' thesis off in China.
>
>Scott: Bruce Andrews?
>
>Hamish:  Bruce Andrews.
>
>Scott:  What'd you end up thinking about his work? It might not have been so
>bad studying a poet of dissonance and disjunction in such an alien
>environment.
>
>Hamish:  Well, Andrews is working with the violence and dissonance of
>American society. Social breakdown, breakdowns in communication. Often he
>works by writing down phrases he hears, overhears, and tries to shape them,
>relate them, without necessarily making 'sense'. The question is whether he
>is not simply reproducing the violence that gives him his material...The
>Language poets offer us a whole range of models, formal models, but I don't
>see the need to accept the programme, to buy the whole package. Take what
>you can use. I particularly like Susan Howe.
>
>Scott:  I agree with that attitude. Some of the critical writing of Ron
>Silliman, for instance, is incredibly dogmatic. He almost outlaws everything
>except his 'New Sentence'. A particular form is fetishised as oppositional,
>subversive yadaya, but the impact of any literary form always depends on
>context. After a few books of Silliman's I felt that a rhymed sonnet would
>be more subversive than another 'new' sentence. And of course the only
>people who were using the new revolutionary formula happened to live in the
>richest societies in the world. So the form was imperiocentric.
>
>Hamish:  I can't comment on Silliman, but Andrews has a solid background in
>Marxism, political economy. He's hardcore. That's one of the things that
>makes him interesting...but Silliman, I've never been that into him...a bit
>dry?
>
>Scott:  I thought the bankruptcy of Silliman and one or two others - David
>Antin and Marjorie Perloff are names that come to mind - was shown after S
>11, when they suddenly morphed into unpaid military advisors to George
>Dubya.
>
>Hamish:  Really? On the EPC list? I haven't checked that for years...
>
>Scott:  If you were against the invasion of Afghanistan Silliman called you
>an appeaser. The enemy was Islamofascism. Antin actually talked about rats,
>and having to do an extermination job...understandable responses from
>ordinary Americans, maybe, but not quite what you'd expect from the
>Patriachs of the Oppositional Word.
>
>Hamish:  Most of the Chinese that I talked to had little sympathy with the
>US after S 11. In fact many were happy. They saw it as the US getting paid
>back a little for what it's done so often. If the US ever invades China, it
>will make Iraq look like a cakewalk. The Chinese would just run out of their
>homes and fight the US troops, with anything they've got. Forks and knives
>off the table if they had nothing else. They hate America.
>
>Scott:  You've written academic or semi-academic stuff on other people?
>
>Hamish:  Leigh Davis, a couple of pieces, the second of which takes issue
>with the commodification of language in his work...I'm keen on Joanna Paul
>and have written a bit on her. I'm interested in anyone who's experimenting
>with language in a disciplined manner. Innovative but also crafted work.
>
>Scott:  Do you value craft above inspiration, or vice versa, or is the
>opposition too old-fashioned to be bothered about?
>
>Hamish:  Inspiration is a craft. Next question.
>
>Scott:  I'm running out. Jack, do you want to ask a question?
>
>Jack:  I'm telling an anecdote from Seinfeld. You don't want it on tape.
>
>Scott:  Are you a Beatles man or an Elvis man?
>
>Hamish:  Beatles man. That opposition is certainly not outdated. Elvis is
>deeply unchoice.
>
>Scott:  Favourite Beatles song?
>
>Hamish: 'She's So Heavy'.
>
>Scott: If you could have dinner with any person living or dead, who would it
>be?
>
>Hamish:  Curnow.
>
>Scott:  Wystan? Why don't you ring him up and ask him out to the Steak
>House -
>
>Hamish: No, you fool! Allen! Allen Curnow! Curnow the elder.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----------------
>OK - my  post - the one you are criticising - was full of rhetoric but that
>si what is going on  - rhetoric versus rhetoric - of course  "my heart leaps
>with joy " was- well it was calculated for its Wordsworthian hints etc -
>
>But I know that Bob Dylan was opposed to war - that's good - I like Ron
>Silliman and his work:a and I admire a lot of the Langpos stuff -font get me
>wrong I also - confiteo ! - said wasn't not against eth US people (Or the
>British, Australian, New Zealand (as we are involved don't you worry NZ is
>right in their with the US - the Govt is I mean) - Scott is maybe a bit
>unfair on Ron above - but we all have our views of things.   Ron knows my
>views teres matter - started out in 2001 with as a call to exterminate all
>the Arabs !! I was vert angry that NY had been attacked  -lol - but then I
>changed .....
>OK maybe I was angry (in the post you criticised - you have a right to  - I
>take your point on Dylan etc (yes  a lot of people are being used here - but
>"A revolution is not a tea party." - Mao Tse Tung - and it is maybe silly to
>be angry  - but I don't like to see weak nations (or any nations) illegally
>invaded - 10.000 civilians murdered - - and then all this hypocrisy about
>democracy - democracy  - US and NZ style I oppose: but that's my view - I
>don't believe in democracy it is total crap - but that's only my view - I do
>believe in independence for Iraq., Afghanistan and Palestine and Diego
>Garcia etc
>
>This war in Iraq is brutal and the freedom fighters have to become hard-
>merciless -pitiless - the weak the squeamish or the frightened get killed
>off [[ I would myself probably get killed off - I dont want to - or ever
>have to kill anyone - I have never used a gun - even in hunting mad NZ - am
>not a fighter per se/ notinto violicne - very nervous and some time a
>frightened person - I concede - but this is theory...lol...we are talking
>self defence here by a nation ]] and  the hard core of true revolutionaries
>survive - ready always to die - for it is better to die free than live as a
>slave.
>
>But read this:
>
>Hamish:  Most of the Chinese that I talked to had little sympathy with the
>US after S 11. In fact many were happy. They saw it as the US getting paid
>back a little for what it's done so often. If the US ever invades China, it
>will make Iraq look like a cakewalk. The Chinese would just run out of their
>homes and fight the US troops, with anything they've got. Forks and knives
>off the table if they had nothing else. They hate America.
>
>"They hate America"  - don't forget that - believe in your heart and
>soul -memorise it....
>
>Richard Taylor
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lawrence Sawyer" 
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:55 AM
>Subject: Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 vision
>Investigates
>
>
>
>
>>Hey richard.tylr
>>
>>I don't know what you're smoking in New Zealand but
>>you need to take a break
>>
>>in reference to YOUR comment  "my heart leaps with joy when I see
>>suicide bombs gong off to disrupt
>>that monstrous hypocrisy"     what kind of sick shit is that
>>
>>For the record that's the insane thinking that's helping to demonize
>>all opposing viewpoints
>>to this administration       I don't want to be lumped in with you
>>
>>violence is the problem not the solution
>>
>>the taking of any life is a crime          and I guess since I've read
>>Silliman's blog entry lately    here's
>>a little lesson for you
>>
>>"A South politician preaches to the poor white man,
>>"You got more than the blacks, don't complain.
>>You're better than them, you been born with white skin," they explain.
>>And the Negro's name
>>Is used it is plain
>>For the politician's gain
>>As he rises to fame
>>And the poor white remains
>>On the caboose of the train
>>But it ain't him to blame
>>He's only a pawn in their game."
>>
>>--Only a Pawn in Their Game, Bob Dylan
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

--
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\f0\fs24 \cf0 \
___\
Stay Strong\
\
 "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \
--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\
\
"This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\
of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\
--HellRazah\
\
"It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\
--Mutabartuka\
\
"As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \
our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \
actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\
 - Frantz Fanon\
\
"Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\
-Imam Ja'far Sadiq\
\
http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\
\
http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \
\
http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\
\
http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\
\
}
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:30:49 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 vision
              Investigates
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response

I think you are saying I have a right to exaggerate a little because - I
think -like you - I feel  - that this American -imperialist invasion is
racist -it is as well as being a lot of other things - it is masterminded by
fascists - - I am not a Muslim or on drugs  - this was meant  go to Lawrence
or the list - I stick to my passion (yes I am sick - I bleed - and this
killing was started by the US not the Iraqis) - I feel there is a lack of
courage in fighting this evil that walks the world now- I don't mean we all
have to go and get killed in Iraq - but an attempt to fudge things is one
tactic to weaken the courageous liberation fighters there  - I don't think
the poetry here or everywhere or wherever  is necessarily bad/ a great poet
can also be very right wing - Pound e.g. (but Pound started with a
passionate realisation that stupid rhetoric about the British empire  - and
the decay of language  -lead - or was  factor  -in bring about the WW1 - yes
he went wrong  - but his passion was right - to be angry is not good but
sometimes  - we must sow our feelings  - Pound (cranky yank that he was)
believed in a higher civilization - )  - but we seem SEEM to be in a time
when -
paradoxically  - passionate rhetoric has value - that said - I am aware of
the pitfalls of such rhetoric: how it distorts and magnifies etc - but I
know who the enemies are

e.g. King used passionate rhetoric -was he always talking the 'truth' ? No-
But was his message great ?? Yes!!

It is not sick to be in favour of siding with the struggle for freedom from
foreign aggression in Iraq -

There are many here pretend to be liberal but its as Sontag said  - they
care only for their pay packets - they are effectively on the side of the
US/Western Empire - next thing the US will re-arm Japan - they are planning
to invade Iran - that is ugly arrogance - Iran has a right to build any
weapons it can -it should (I hope to hell they are!! fast!! hurry Iran and
Korea  - arm!! arm!!) - if I was any country not US I would  - if I could
rapidly arm with as many ICBMs as I could.- I would - notice how the US
hasn't invaded India or China!! - and its well known that Israel has
nukes -the hypocritical yanks have thousands of them!!! - I am sure the
Chinese have them pointed at the US - ready for one false move - the
Democrats are useless - a revolution is needed - and there does tend to be a
sameness and clubiness of / amongst certain of the so -called langpos
and -not all of them (but see Scot Hamilton below) - and also a strong
leaning to the right -

in fact many of them I think when you look at their work exhibit or a morbid
tiredness - dullness, even cynicism -what was avant garde 20 years ago is
now just repetition - they are Right Wing and lack new ideas - any ideas in
some cases

then a lot just disappear into their language "play" -their blogs - or read
19th Century essays -while people die
Lawrence called me sick - I am not - I believe in freedom and not the false
elections that are being forced on the people of Iraq who hate the US

the sick are those who cannot see oppression or don't speak out against it
if they do

war is terrible - but no people want to be enslaved - so a war of liberation
is justifiable

Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ishaq" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 vision
Investigates


> peace richard,
>
>
> lawrence?
>
> i am not the one you should be addressing. for i would never fall behind
> the recent COP out on civil discussion by accusing dessenters of being
> either,
> drug addicts, homophobes, anti-jewish, terrorist, reverse racist,
> paranoids, insane or just plan muslim.
>
> you'd have to talk to the regular amerikkkacentric hate clique pos(t)ers
> who flood this list with bad art/poetry and mpegs used as supremacist
> propoganda.
>
>
> call a cop, dude!!! i am shocked at the crass hackism which gets posted
> onto this list which i thought was supposed to be about poetry (once and
> intelligent political and social voice of innovation and flex) yet
> serves more for the prupose of a group of anti-intellectual bigots who
> shamelessly flubbed their unILLness in the mastery of flow and hide
> behind, recently, jewishness (and ADL tactricks) -- and even talkin down
> on greater master flexologist they will can't hope to change a towel
> roll for at roadside motel, as a last felled attempt to COP some cred
> with the publishing world and few blue haired packed open mic events.
>
> ain't sayin no names, naw
>
> of course they feel this is a good way to hide their ignorance when
> concerning topics from iraq, blacks and muslims and why they can't flow
> -- b.u.t. bad verse is bad verse.
>
> ...and as the verse goes in the sign i fly in this here version --
> 'they are just those who pass on what is heard and most of them are
> liars/and the poets and deviators follow them;'
>
> you know who you are
>
> i don't think that there is anything wrong with someone who calls
> themself a "poet" to have passion concerning the world, the word and
> social injustice.
> b.u.t. i know, so it looks and susan sontag has written and uttered til
> her last breath -- peace and blessings,
>
> "The conversation among writers that takes place in the last 20 years is
> for the most part just like the conversation of any other professional
> people on the make. They could just as well be advertising executives or
> businesspeople, or anything else. They talk about income and they talk
> about the comforts or lack of comforts of their personal lives, and --
> but that's a kind of -- if I think back on my own life, the single most
> amazing phenomenon is the discrediting of idealism."
>
> we don't got and will never have anymore genets, rambauds, burroughs,
> vidals, eliots, duchamps, tzaras, p.smiths (ar heart she is muslim),
> karen finlays, jim carrols,  j baldwins, chuck d's, barakas, rza's, mos
> def's, easton eliots, r.wrights, w.c.williams. wnada colemans,
> tennesses, selby jrs, dave alvins, cervenkas, d. coopers, wildes,
> audens, xaviers, j cortez , shariatis or hammetts
>
> i think it's all over or as sontag said;  "Nobody has to be a writer.
> Print culture may be under siege, but there has been an enormous
> inflation in the number of books printed, and very few of these could be
> considered part of literature. ... Unlike what has been said here
> before, for me the primary obligation is human solidarity."-- Susan
> Sontag 1933 - 2004
>
> so what we get is not the good works, good deeds or action b.u.t. a few
> hacks using suntzu to canel out competition for dumbed down despearte
> audience who are starved for anything somewhat readable that they have
> been told will not draw attention, however, will tow the party line and
> all seem oh so so cool.
> this is the metaphor of invasion-- it's not tha democracy is better or
> that the invaders/crusaders are good or have superior culture or peoples
> which serve the good -- it's that they have p.r.  = guns -- and can
> cancel out the competition. therefore, offering no choice to the
> underwhelmed audience overwhelmed by brutality.
>
> literary globalization of hack amerikkkcentrick thought (how i learned
> to stop flowin and being da bomb).
>
> "Any Rough Times Are Now Behind You - Selected Poems & Writings 1979-1995"
> dave alvin -- Incommunicado ISBN 1-884615-09-0
>
>
> peace
>
> richard.tylr wrote:
>
>>Lawrence
>>
>>I don't smoke and I have never used marijuana. OK I was racing and pumping
>>with anger at the injustices done over there when I wrote that and off
>>course I don't like to see people killed - white or black - Iraqi or
>>otherwise  BUT the Iraqi liberation fighters have to struggle by whatever
>>means - the loss of their land by an invading force to them is the loss of
>>their life - imagine if the US had been invaded in WWll by the Japs - now
>>there would be some crawlers who cooperated with them - but a patriotic
>>American -and I mean a true patriot - a courageous patriot  - would join
>>in
>>a resistance against that enemy - the object being to drive that invader
>>out
>>of the US - now imagine also the US had not been particularly well armed
>>as
>>it was in the 1940s and is now - then the resistance fighters in the US
>>could well- would in fact  employ ANY means to destroy the enemy
>>
>>Mao Tse Tung used this method - he would encourage or entice the Japanese
>>further into guerrilla territory then they would secretly surround the
>>Japanese soldiers - and throw fire crackers at them - unnerve them, or
>>they
>>would just charge at 4 am and they would usually kill EVERY JAP and take
>>their weapons - so there was a gain - a small gain - but a gain -
>>
>>They won..they beat the Japanese before the US  Imperialists could get in
>>there and take China...but that's another story  - you will find that the
>>freedom fighters in Iraq are using similar techniques  - they will use
>>suicide bombs/ambushes /they will tunnel though the sand under US bases
>>and
>>kill hundreds of young soldiers /they will kill men women children -
>>anything to disrupt/anyone who cooperates or is in the way is a
>>tagret -anyone - - it has to happen/ they must win - it is a fight for
>>their
>>independence as than US fought the British - anything to rid their country
>>of a foreign alien culture and a fascist invader - toting guns and looking
>>like Darth Vaders  from one of the most psychotic and sick nations on
>>God's
>>earth -anyone in Iraq who cooperates with US is a traitor and deserves
>>death
>>!! Or worse - humiliation.  Nothing else ...now suicide bombing isn't
>>necessarily the best method as one of your soldiers (freedom fighters)
>>dies - that is a loss of one - but if you can kill a greater number of the
>>invaders or their collaborators that is a gain
>>
>>I dont care if you think I am sick - and I'm not interested in what is on
>>Silliman's Blog (well I am  - I am intersted i his poetics - he very
>>bright
>>guy  -- and a great poet -lo l- dont want to throw the baby out iwth
>>bathwater !!) (I do admire his poetry - his work but not his politics) he
>>was all for invading Afghanistan - he and Perloff - and Antin - I think he
>>called the Arabs/Moslems whoever etc rats (that sounds bizzare maybe Antin
>>was being ironic or something - we all say things...) - you can look back
>>to
>>2001 on the List  when 9/11 happened (as I aalso admire especially Antin;s
>>talk poems and Perloff's critical writings -great writing I think): But
>>look
>>at this it was in a local mag called Brief in NZ:
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------------------------
>>Scott:  In your China poems you sometimes seem to look back at the New
>>Zealand natural landscape with affection.
>>
>>Hamish:  For me, landscape is always something which is inanimate. And it
>>is
>>usually malign...remember, I moved about in China itself, moved from the
>>sticks to the coast and took jobs teaching English, without the literature
>>thing. Finished my Masters' thesis off in China.
>>
>>Scott: Bruce Andrews?
>>
>>Hamish:  Bruce Andrews.
>>
>>Scott:  What'd you end up thinking about his work? It might not have been
>>so
>>bad studying a poet of dissonance and disjunction in such an alien
>>environment.
>>
>>Hamish:  Well, Andrews is working with the violence and dissonance of
>>American society. Social breakdown, breakdowns in communication. Often he
>>works by writing down phrases he hears, overhears, and tries to shape
>>them,
>>relate them, without necessarily making 'sense'. The question is whether
>>he
>>is not simply reproducing the violence that gives him his material...The
>>Language poets offer us a whole range of models, formal models, but I
>>don't
>>see the need to accept the programme, to buy the whole package. Take what
>>you can use. I particularly like Susan Howe.
>>
>>Scott:  I agree with that attitude. Some of the critical writing of Ron
>>Silliman, for instance, is incredibly dogmatic. He almost outlaws
>>everything
>>except his 'New Sentence'. A particular form is fetishised as
>>oppositional,
>>subversive yadaya, but the impact of any literary form always depends on
>>context. After a few books of Silliman's I felt that a rhymed sonnet would
>>be more subversive than another 'new' sentence. And of course the only
>>people who were using the new revolutionary formula happened to live in
>>the
>>richest societies in the world. So the form was imperiocentric.
>>
>>Hamish:  I can't comment on Silliman, but Andrews has a solid background
>>in
>>Marxism, political economy. He's hardcore. That's one of the things that
>>makes him interesting...but Silliman, I've never been that into him...a
>>bit
>>dry?
>>
>>Scott:  I thought the bankruptcy of Silliman and one or two others - David
>>Antin and Marjorie Perloff are names that come to mind - was shown after S
>>11, when they suddenly morphed into unpaid military advisors to George
>>Dubya.
>>
>>Hamish:  Really? On the EPC list? I haven't checked that for years...
>>
>>Scott:  If you were against the invasion of Afghanistan Silliman called
>>you
>>an appeaser. The enemy was Islamofascism. Antin actually talked about
>>rats,
>>and having to do an extermination job...understandable responses from
>>ordinary Americans, maybe, but not quite what you'd expect from the
>>Patriachs of the Oppositional Word.
>>
>>Hamish:  Most of the Chinese that I talked to had little sympathy with the
>>US after S 11. In fact many were happy. They saw it as the US getting paid
>>back a little for what it's done so often. If the US ever invades China,
>>it
>>will make Iraq look like a cakewalk. The Chinese would just run out of
>>their
>>homes and fight the US troops, with anything they've got. Forks and knives
>>off the table if they had nothing else. They hate America.
>>
>>Scott:  You've written academic or semi-academic stuff on other people?
>>
>>Hamish:  Leigh Davis, a couple of pieces, the second of which takes issue
>>with the commodification of language in his work...I'm keen on Joanna Paul
>>and have written a bit on her. I'm interested in anyone who's
>>experimenting
>>with language in a disciplined manner. Innovative but also crafted work.
>>
>>Scott:  Do you value craft above inspiration, or vice versa, or is the
>>opposition too old-fashioned to be bothered about?
>>
>>Hamish:  Inspiration is a craft. Next question.
>>
>>Scott:  I'm running out. Jack, do you want to ask a question?
>>
>>Jack:  I'm telling an anecdote from Seinfeld. You don't want it on tape.
>>
>>Scott:  Are you a Beatles man or an Elvis man?
>>
>>Hamish:  Beatles man. That opposition is certainly not outdated. Elvis is
>>deeply unchoice.
>>
>>Scott:  Favourite Beatles song?
>>
>>Hamish: 'She's So Heavy'.
>>
>>Scott: If you could have dinner with any person living or dead, who would
>>it
>>be?
>>
>>Hamish:  Curnow.
>>
>>Scott:  Wystan? Why don't you ring him up and ask him out to the Steak
>>House -
>>
>>Hamish: No, you fool! Allen! Allen Curnow! Curnow the elder.
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----------------
>>OK - my  post - the one you are criticising - was full of rhetoric but
>>that
>>si what is going on  - rhetoric versus rhetoric - of course  "my heart
>>leaps
>>with joy " was- well it was calculated for its Wordsworthian hints etc -
>>
>>But I know that Bob Dylan was opposed to war - that's good - I like Ron
>>Silliman and his work:a and I admire a lot of the Langpos stuff -font get
>>me
>>wrong I also - confiteo ! - said wasn't not against eth US people (Or the
>>British, Australian, New Zealand (as we are involved don't you worry NZ is
>>right in their with the US - the Govt is I mean) - Scott is maybe a bit
>>unfair on Ron above - but we all have our views of things.   Ron knows my
>>views teres matter - started out in 2001 with as a call to exterminate all
>>the Arabs !! I was vert angry that NY had been attacked  -lol - but then I
>>changed .....
>>OK maybe I was angry (in the post you criticised - you have a right to  -
>>I
>>take your point on Dylan etc (yes  a lot of people are being used here -
>>but
>>"A revolution is not a tea party." - Mao Tse Tung - and it is maybe silly
>>to
>>be angry  - but I don't like to see weak nations (or any nations)
>>illegally
>>invaded - 10.000 civilians murdered - - and then all this hypocrisy about
>>democracy - democracy  - US and NZ style I oppose: but that's my view - I
>>don't believe in democracy it is total crap - but that's only my view - I
>>do
>>believe in independence for Iraq., Afghanistan and Palestine and Diego
>>Garcia etc
>>
>>This war in Iraq is brutal and the freedom fighters have to become hard-
>>merciless -pitiless - the weak the squeamish or the frightened get killed
>>off [[ I would myself probably get killed off - I dont want to - or ever
>>have to kill anyone - I have never used a gun - even in hunting mad NZ -
>>am
>>not a fighter per se/ notinto violicne - very nervous and some time a
>>frightened person - I concede - but this is theory...lol...we are talking
>>self defence here by a nation ]] and  the hard core of true
>>revolutionaries
>>survive - ready always to die - for it is better to die free than live as
>>a
>>slave.
>>
>>But read this:
>>
>>Hamish:  Most of the Chinese that I talked to had little sympathy with the
>>US after S 11. In fact many were happy. They saw it as the US getting paid
>>back a little for what it's done so often. If the US ever invades China,
>>it
>>will make Iraq look like a cakewalk. The Chinese would just run out of
>>their
>>homes and fight the US troops, with anything they've got. Forks and knives
>>off the table if they had nothing else. They hate America.
>>
>>"They hate America"  - don't forget that - believe in your heart and
>>soul -memorise it....
>>
>>Richard Taylor
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Lawrence Sawyer" 
>>To: 
>>Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:55 AM
>>Subject: Re: Are Muslims in Canada under a microscope? 360 vision
>>Investigates
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hey richard.tylr
>>>
>>>I don't know what you're smoking in New Zealand but
>>>you need to take a break
>>>
>>>in reference to YOUR comment  "my heart leaps with joy when I see
>>>suicide bombs gong off to disrupt
>>>that monstrous hypocrisy"     what kind of sick shit is that
>>>
>>>For the record that's the insane thinking that's helping to demonize
>>>all opposing viewpoints
>>>to this administration       I don't want to be lumped in with you
>>>
>>>violence is the problem not the solution
>>>
>>>the taking of any life is a crime          and I guess since I've read
>>>Silliman's blog entry lately    here's
>>>a little lesson for you
>>>
>>>"A South politician preaches to the poor white man,
>>>"You got more than the blacks, don't complain.
>>>You're better than them, you been born with white skin," they explain.
>>>And the Negro's name
>>>Is used it is plain
>>>For the politician's gain
>>>As he rises to fame
>>>And the poor white remains
>>>On the caboose of the train
>>>But it ain't him to blame
>>>He's only a pawn in their game."
>>>
>>>--Only a Pawn in Their Game, Bob Dylan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> {\rtf1\mac\ansicpg10000\cocoartf102
> {\fonttbl\f0\fswiss\fcharset77 Helvetica;}
> {\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;}
> \margl1440\margr1440\vieww9000\viewh9000\viewkind0
> \pard\tx560\tx1120\tx1680\tx2240\tx2800\tx3360\tx3920\tx4480\tx5040\tx5600\tx6160\tx6720\ql\qnatural
>
> \f0\fs24 \cf0 \
> ___\
> Stay Strong\
> \
> "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \
> --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\
> \
> "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\
> of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\
> --HellRazah\
> \
> "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\
>--Mutabartuka\
> \
> "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \
> our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \
> actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\
> - Frantz Fanon\
> \
> "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\
> -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\
> \
> http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\
> \
> http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \
> \
> http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\
> \
> http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\
> \
> }
>
>
> --
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> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>
>



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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:33:58 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      sutton and the bliz
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

sutton and the bliz

     * Send this page to somebody
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home of willie sutton the bank robber in the great blizzard of 2005 in
brooklyn new york city on dean street at twelve forty-five in the early
morning after the first storm from the west and just before the nor'easter
struck

Size 1.3 MB - File type image/jpeg

http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim/blizsutton.jpg

sutton and the getaway bliz

http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim/blizgetaway.jpg

_
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:35:17 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Harry Nudel's response begs the question:  it assumes that the "real" poe=
m is
the text, but this is exactly the point at issue.

In retrospect it might have been clearer if I had quoted Govinda's remark=
s in
full.  I abridged them by leaving out the sentences where he talks about
poetry's power having the same source as that of a mantra:  they are both=

sacred speech.  The implication is that a mantra is a special sort of poe=
try
and poetry is a special sort of mantra.  Obviously a mantra isn't much go=
od if
you just write it in a notebook and leave it on a shelf so you can
occasionally take it down and look at the letters which represent it.  Th=
e
mantra's power exists only when the mantra is spoken and because it is sp=
oken.
 Likewise with a poem:  to reduce poetry to text is to disconnect poetry =
from
the source of its power as sacred speech.

I think this can be argued in a way that doesn't depend on recondite reli=
gious
ideas.  It's similar to the principle of psychoanalysis, that you can't d=
o it
by thinking or writing, you have to work out your therapy by actually tal=
king
in the physical presence of the therapist, even if the therapist doesn't =
do
much but listen.

Not that I think that poetry is only valid if it's spoken to someone:  if=
 I
thought that, then I'd have to admit that my own isn't very valid.  It's =
more
complicated than that:  it's a matter of the art's connectedness to its s=
ource
of power.  Listen to the music of Bach or Beethoven:  it rarely strays fa=
r
from dance, and this is the origin of its power, even if no one ever actu=
ally
dances to it.  Poetry's power source is formal interpersonal utterance in=

song, address, incantation, and it loses its power when it loses its
connection with such utterance, quite apart from the issue of whether any=
one
ever actually utters it in the ways I've mentioned.

Alan Sondheim's Codework piece seems to deal with some of these issues mo=
re by
exemplifying a contrary viewpoint than by explaining it, which puts me at=
 a
disadvantage in trying to reply with further standard critical discourse.=
  So
I'll only make a few comments on an idea which seems to be suggested by s=
ome
of his statements, and is certainly characteristic of postmodern poetics.=
 =

This is the idea that definitive interpretation is to be shunned because =
it
destroys poetry by assuming that a poem's meaning can be definitively
exhausted, as a riddle or puzzle has no use but to be discarded once it's=

solved.  The logical fallacy here is a false dichotomy:  the choice isn't=

between insisting that only one interpretation can be valid or accepting =
that
all interpretations must be valid.  A poem, a true and great poem, is a r=
iddle
that has an infinite number of right answers, but that doesn't mean that =
any
answer someone cares to give to it must be right.

Or use another metaphor:  knowing a poem is like knowing a person:  a lif=
elong
process of unfolding the riddle of who that person is.  There can be no
definitive definition of an individual human being:  we can never say "Th=
is,
exactly this, and only this is what this person is, period."  But it woul=
d be
preposterous to argue from this that all possible judgements of what that=

person is like are equally valid.

I have to agree though that much current poetry reflects the destruction =
of
the self. That's exactly what's wrong with it, and with us.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:47:48 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_PixelByPixel:_Durieu_and_Birg=E9?=
In-Reply-To:  <000001c500d2$6c7eab20$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au>
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> |||JIM
> |||I think that PixelByPixel has much more interesting
> |||generative/compositional
> |||possibilities than anything you are likely to find in Clauss
> or Strasser,
> |||both of whose work I have written about and admire (s:
> |||http://www.turbulence.org/curators/media2/strasser.htm , c:
> |||http://turbulence.org/curators/Paris/claussenglish.htm ).
>
> *KOMNINOS
> i disagree, but then i'm not a programmer, and can't appreciate its
> programming qualities like you can.

You don't need to be a programmer to get a sense of the
generative/compositional range of possibilities in a particular piece of
net.art. What pieces by Clauss and Strasser are you thinking of that have
generative/compositional range to compare with PixelByPixel (
http://www.lecielestbleu.com/media/pixelbypixelframe.htm )? Maybe I should
define it. At any point in time, it's the number of distinct actions
available; over time, it's basically the number of significantly different
results you can compose/can be generated. Scratching your nose doesn't count
in this calculation (unless that causes something different onscreen than
what scratching your ear causes). For instance, though it might be said
(validly) that a non-programmed/non-interactive piece of music or writing
etc has great 'generative/compositional range' conceptually, it has *none*
in the sense I'm thinking of, which is to say I'm thinking of the
mechanically interactive/generative space. Of course that isn't 'enough' in
matters of art; whether it's a lively and meaningful space is relevant.

> Your writings about clauss, strasser and durieu are structural analyses of
> the code and their construction.
> You see a work and ask how was it done, i see a work and ask what has it
> done to me?

You might also ask what you have done to it.

I try to ask the questions raised by the piece. And of course I have my own
concerns, as do most people.

Looking at Clauss's and Strasser's work, it's simple enough to figure out
how it might have been done. That isn't an interesting question in their
work, so I don't pursue it in writing about their work. The interest and
excellence of their work is elsewhere; it doesn't/can't approach programming
as an art; that is a discourse of algorithms; the 'value' of an algorithm
has to do with the (artistic, social, etc) value of what it does; with how
well it does it; whether it is commonly done, ie, whether it is a code
cliché; if it is a cliché, then whether it's subverted. The 'art of
programming', while it is a discourse of algorithms, is larger than the
Donald Knuth notion of 'the art of programming', which only addresses the
engineering/mathematical/structural value of algorithms; Knuth's approach
doesn't talk about, say, the value of an algorithm in relation to the fields
of poetry. Yet that is crucial to the poet-programmer.

Why do you think 'Pixel By Pixel' is named as it is? It turns out that the
name of Durieu's 'Oeil Complex' (
http://www.lecielestbleu.com/media/oeilcomplexframe.htm ) is relevant in
multiple ways to the 'Oeil Complex' piece. The title refers not only to a
complex of eyes, but to complex i, to the imaginary i, the square root of
negative one, which is deeply relevant not only to how the piece was done,
but to notions of identity and character in the piece.

> |||It requires not only a programmer but someone who likes to think of
> |||'language' to create programming which opens up interesting
> |||generative/compositional possibilities.
>
> However a programmer uses a vocabulary that has been chosen from
> language, a
> small chunk of language, strictly defines the meaning of each word in the
> vocabulary removing ambiguity, and then constructs a world that is totally
> defined and predictable.

Programmed works of art are, in some ways, certainly less predictable than,
say, static text, which is mechanically fixed. Sort of depends on the range
in various ways, doesn't it. Please note that I'm not saying this makes
programmable works of art better than non-programmed or programmable works
of art.

That which is constructed through programming need be no more "defined and
predictable" than the mind itself. Or any other programmed/programmable
process.

The most fundamental observation one can make concerning the phenomenology
of computers is that they are programmable. This is what gives computers
their radical flexibility compared with other machines. There is no proof,
and there probably never will be, that there exist any processes of which
humans are capable and computers are not. I know this thought is detestable
to you, but I think you will find, upon reflection, that it is really no
more detestable than is Darwin's theory compared with creationism.

> You can see one of the roles of
> |||'language' here: works that have rich generative/compositional possibs
> |||allow
> |||the wreader to at least influence the concatenations/layers of sound
> |||and/or
> |||visuals.
>
> *K
> Like de saussere, who separated language from life, programming has
> separated out its language from life. We can not assume
> programming language
> is synonymous with language in life, or use these word interchangeably.

I don't understand what it might mean to separate language from life.

Works of art are usually disembodied, whether they're books or film or
net.art or whatever, if that's what you mean.

> Certainly this work allows the end-user to interact and have influence on
> the visuals and aurals and their combinations, and we don't see the code
> (most of us, you probably do)

I don't see it either.

> but if we watch it long enough,
> because of the
> defined nature of the meaning of the code, it will become predictable and
> totally understandable.

There can be such things as self-replicating or self-modifying programs.
Programming doesn't need to be any more predictable than any other process.

> Something that can't be said of language in life.

It's quite simple to program processes so that they are unpredictable in
certain ways.

> |||But concatenations of what? And how are the layers structured?
> |||And
> |||how are the concatenations arrived at? And the layering also? Together,
> |||these schema form a kind of language of sound and/or visuals. When I
> |||listen
> |||to PixelByPixel, part of what I listen for is the
> compositional range and
> |||the nature of what is composed. Does it always sound the same? How much
> |||range does it have? Is what it generates/allows composition of an
> |||interesting type of sound? What is the conception of music
> therein? What
> |||is
> |||the language of love?
> |||So although there is no English language going on here, the creative
> |||investigation of sonic and visual language is actually rather
> |||sophisticated,
>
> *K
> i am aware of the poly semiotic nature of interpretation afforded in this
> new medium, and as you point out your familiarity with the aural signs are
> more sophisticated than mine. My sign system of preference is textual.
>
> |||Komninos. For instance the musical language is a matter beyond
> timbre. It
> |||is
> |||structural. A grammar.
>
> *K
> Once again i'm not such a huge fan of adoring how things work. And being a
> poet grammar was always the enemy.

If grammar is the enemy, watch that ignorance and fear of the unknown do not
become the trusted friend.

> |||
> |||You see, 'language' and our understanding of it is being transformed.
>
>
> *K
> i do see how our understanding of language is being transformed, but here
> you are talking of language as a system of communication, and our
> system of
> communication, and we, realise the importance of the many
> different semiotic
> systems in interpreting language and life.
>
>
> In
> |||large part because of the central role of language as a
> subject of study
> |||of
> |||mathematics over the last seventy years (basically since
> Godel). When one
> |||studies theoretical Computer Science, what one studies
> centrally are the
> |||formal properties of language. One may ask whether computers are number
> |||processing devices or language processing devices. The answer is that
> |||they
> |||are profoundly both, and the profundity is in the connection
> between the
> |||two.
>
> *K
> This is exactly my point, programming makes language a
> mathematical formula,
> and it is not.

Mathematics is about much more than formulas, Komninos. And so too is
language, yes.

Even as you read this humble tidbit of language, behold that it contains
within its representation the Birth of God/uniVerse (
http://vispo.com/kearns/bog1.htm ).

ja
http://vispo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:56:45 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         mIEKAL aND 
Subject:      i ching on the cake
Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines 
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553)
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My romanian partner Camille asked my today to explain the meaning of "i
ching" on the cake?  (which is how you would pronounce icing in
Romanian).  Forget the pennies & the yarrow stalks,  We're gonna divine
our future with frosting.

~mIEKAL
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:08:23 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Vernon Frazer 
Subject:      Re: i ching on the cake
In-Reply-To:  <251330C6-6D68-11D9-B779-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net>
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Hi mIEKAL

Then, I suspect your future will be one of growth and expansion, but not
necessarily in the areas you'd like. If you want to put the "i ching on the
cake," you could make a hexagram with a frosting whose color contrasts with
the dominant one. I'm sure the cake will be divine(d).

Best,

Vernon


-----Original Message-----
From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On
Behalf Of mIEKAL aND
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 12:57 PM
To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: i ching on the cake

My romanian partner Camille asked my today to explain the meaning of "i
ching" on the cake?  (which is how you would pronounce icing in
Romanian).  Forget the pennies & the yarrow stalks,  We're gonna divine
our future with frosting.

~mIEKAL
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:16:32 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Austinwja@AOL.COM
Subject:      Blackbox open for submissions
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Hello everyone,

The winter 2005 gallery is now open for submissions.  Please follow the
guidelines posted on the Blackbox site.  To reach the site, go to
WilliamJamesAustin.com and follow the Blackbox link.  Thanks in advance to all who contribute.

Best, Bill

WilliamJamesAustin.com
kojapress.com
amazon.com
b&n.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:30:53 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         George Bowering 
Subject:      Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
In-Reply-To:  <603JawcqT9600S12.1106501717@cmsweb11.cms.usa.net>
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On 23-Jan-05, at 9:35 AM, Jon Corelis wrote:

> Harry Nudel's response begs the question:  it assumes that the "real"
> poem is
> the text, but this is exactly the point at issue.

My god! That is the first time in ages that I have heard someone use
"begs the question" in the correct way.

Oly 2010
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:06:09 +1100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alison Croggon 
Subject:      Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
In-Reply-To:  <603JawcqT9600S12.1106501717@cmsweb11.cms.usa.net>
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Hi Jon

On 24/1/05 4:35 AM, "Jon Corelis"  wrote:

> This is the idea that definitive interpretation is to be shunned because it
> destroys poetry by assuming that a poem's meaning can be definitively
> exhausted, as a riddle or puzzle has no use but to be discarded once it's
> solved.  The logical fallacy here is a false dichotomy:  the choice isn't
> between insisting that only one interpretation can be valid or accepting that
> all interpretations must be valid.  A poem, a true and great poem, is a riddle
> that has an infinite number of right answers, but that doesn't mean that any
> answer someone cares to give to it must be right.

Aren't there other problems with interpretation than merely its tendencies
towards definitiveness? I'm can't quite follow how you leap from advocating
a memory of the presence of utterance or dance - ie, performance which
requires mutual bodily presences and recalls ritualistic roots - to the
question of interpretation.  There's a chasm in the middle here... Surely a
poem is much more than interpretation, and the idea of presence you outline
challenges the assumption that it is? It suggests to me that a poem is not
so much a riddle which requires answers of varying accuracy, but a something
in itself, which may require no answering at all, that mining it for meaning
might be to evade or even destroy the actual poem -  Famously, Sontag's 1964
argument, which interesting uses the word "impious":

"...the contemporary zeal towards interpretation is often prompted not by
piety towards the troublesome text (which may conceal aggression) but by an
open aggressiveness, an overt contempt for appearances.  ... The modern
style of interpretation excavates, destroys: it digs "behind" the text, to
find a sub-text that is the true one. The most celebrated and influential
modern doctrines, those of Marx and Freud, actually amount to elaborate
systems of hermeneutics, aggressive and impious theories of interpretation.
This manifest content must be probed and pushed aside to find the true
meaning - the _latent content_ beneath...according to Marx and Freud, these
events [history, personal events] only seem to be intelligible.  Actually,
they have no meaning without interpretation. To understand _is_ to
interpret.  And to interpret is to restate the phenomenon, in effect to find
an equivalent for it.

"This interpretation is not (as some people assume) an absolute value, a
gesture of mind situated in some timeless realm of capabilities.
Interpretation itself must be evaluated.  In some cultural contexts,
interpretation is a liberating act.  It is a means of revising, of
transvaluing, of escaping the dead past.  In other cultural contexts, it is
reactionary, impertinent, cowardly, stifling."

(Against Interpretation)

Best

A


Alison Croggon

Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
Editor, Masthead:  http://masthead.net.au
Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:54:08 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
In-Reply-To:  <603JawcqT9600S12.1106501717@cmsweb11.cms.usa.net>
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First, tried to reply to Hal but couldn't - yes, quite like it, and don't
need credit, thanks.

Second -

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005, Jon Corelis wrote:

> Alan Sondheim's Codework piece seems to deal with some of these issues
> more by exemplifying a contrary viewpoint than by explaining it, which
> puts me at a disadvantage in trying to reply with further standard
> critical discourse.  So I'll only make a few comments on an idea which
> seems to be suggested by some of his statements, and is certainly
> characteristic of postmodern poetics. This is the idea that definitive
> interpretation is to be shunned because it destroys poetry by assuming
> that a poem's meaning can be definitively exhausted, as a riddle or
> puzzle has no use but to be discarded once it's solved.  The logical
> fallacy here is a false dichotomy:  the choice isn't between insisting
> that only one interpretation can be valid or accepting that all
> interpretations must be valid.  A poem, a true and great poem, is a
> riddle that has an infinite number of right answers, but that doesn't
> mean that any answer someone cares to give to it must be right.
>
Yes to the second part; the point of the text - first, it's not based at
all on postmodern poetics or interpretation, but on codework and formal
structure quite a difference for me - is that there's always a surplus
which turns obdurate -

By "hardening of meaning" I refer to the need for deciphering codework,
which is partially code-dependent, which isn't immediately available as a
text. And the decipherment is part and parcel of the meaning; on the other
hand, there's a kind of collapse, the hardening, if something is "figured
out," if there's something there to be figured out.

It's like looking at a text written in reverse, seeing at first only a
confused of letters, then having the "aha" sensation that reversal is
occurring.

> Or use another metaphor:  knowing a poem is like knowing a person:  a lifelong
> process of unfolding the riddle of who that person is.  There can be no
> definitive definition of an individual human being:  we can never say "This,
> exactly this, and only this is what this person is, period."  But it would be
> preposterous to argue from this that all possible judgements of what that
> person is like are equally valid.

Well of course, yes, again. I'm not arguing for a definitive
interpretation but it's opposite. Too much codework _is_ formal, which
means, for me, design-oriented, an empty play of symbols, etc., repeating
the sort of conceptualist gestures one found in some concrete poetry, but
also as the structuring on concept/ual art (see Ursual Meyer's book for
examples). What I'm talking about is the parasitic relation of a sememe to
code ("parasitic" coming largely from Michel Serres), which is entangled
and inextricable, a sense of urgency throughout the work, embedded within
and embedding, the code. I'm not talking at all about ultimate and correct
interpretations.
>
> I have to agree though that much current poetry reflects the destruction of
> the self. That's exactly what's wrong with it, and with us.
>
This I really don't agree with, either for codework or current poetry, as
far as I understand it. -

- Alan
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:58:02 -0500
Reply-To:     Lori Emerson 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Lori Emerson 
Subject:      St. Mark's reading TOMORROW: Barbara Cole & Noah Eli Gordon
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Dear all: please come hear, see

BARBARA COLE

NOAH ELI GORDON

reading

Monday, January 24, 2005 at 8 PM
$8; $7 students; $5 members

The Poetry Project
St. Mark's Church
131 East 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.)
Manhattan
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:20:56 -0800
Reply-To:     ishaq1823@shaw.ca
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ishaq 
Organization: selah7
Subject:      Conversation with Hamid Algar: so-called suicide bombings
In-Reply-To:  <001001c4fe7f$faf3cd40$d15636d2@computer>
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 Conversation with Hamid Algar


"...it's not politically correct to say you're against a religion as
such. Therefore, an adjective has to be supplied: militant Islam,
extremist Islam, Islamic terrorism, Islamic fundamentalism, political
Islam....I think the following has to be taken into consideration: that
these so-called suicide bombings did not start until a considerable time
after the beginning of the Intifada, when a large number of Palestinian
children had been killed by Israeli forces, for nothing other than
throwing a stone, or in some cases not even that."


A Conversation with Hamid Algar
by Russell Schoch
California Monthly

Shortly after September 11, 2001, professor of Persian and Islamic
Studies Hamid Algar hailed a cab in downtown Berkeley. The cab driver
was an Indian Sikh, wearing a turban. When Algar got into the cab, the
driver said: "Sir, don't worry, I'm not a Muslim." Algar responded:
"Don't worry. I am a Muslim." Both men laughed, but with the realization
that the climate had changed for Muslims in the United States.

"I don't look like the average person's idea of a Muslim," says Algar,
who was born in England in 1940. (He declines to discuss his conversion
to Islam, which he considers a private matter.) As a youth, he had a
strong interest and facility for languages, mastering French and German
in high school, and spending a year at the University of Freiburg in
Germany before college.

After earning his B.A. with first-class honors in Oriental Languages
(Arabic and Persian) at Trinity College, Cambridge, he was offered a
scholarship to Tehran University in Iran, where he planned to work for
his Ph.D. But the year he went, 1961-2, was one of great tumult in Iran,
specifically at Tehran University, where he had "the memorable
experience of witnessing an attack on the university campus by the
Shah's paratroopers." He left the university and instead spent a year
traveling around the country. "I can honestly claim there's no
significant region of Iran that I didn't visit," he says.

Algar returned to Cambridge for his Ph.D., writing his dissertation on
the political role of Shi'a religious scholars in the 19th century. "The
reason for that choice of topic was the beginning of the movement
launched by Imam Khomeini in 1963," he says. Algar met with Khomeini in
exile in Paris and on brief occasions in Iran after the revolution there
in 1979. He translated selected writings and speeches of the Imam (Islam
and Revolution) and also gave his own account, The Roots of the Islamic
Revolution in Iran. He considers that revolution "the most significant,
hopeful, and profound event in the entirety of contemporary Islamic
history."

A faculty member at Berkeley since 1965, Algar teaches courses on
Persian literature, on the history of Islam, and on Shi'ism and Sufism,
and has produced scholarly books and articles on all these subjects.
Former Algar student and current Berkeley colleague Hatem Bazian, Ph.D.
'02, says that there are only a handful of scholars in the world with
Hamid Algar's level of knowledge in a number of fields of Islamic
studies, plus his mastery of Middle Eastern languages (Arabic, Persian,
and Turkish, both modern and Ottoman) and his knowledge of half a dozen
European languages. Among his scholarly achievements, Algar is the
author of more than 100 articles in the Encyclopaedia Iranica.

Algar says that he began his career at Berkeley with a focus on Iran and
early modern Iranian history, but has branched out in a number of other
directions, both historically and geographically. He has also traveled
extensively throughout the Muslim world. "What I've come to appreciate,"
he says, "is the great diversity of Islamic culture and the various
expressions of Islamic religion."

The contemporary Middle East is not his primary field of study, he
points out. But Algar's reputation as a scholar of Islam, and his lively
interest in present-day politics--including his close knowledge of the
Iranian revolution and his public denunciation of Osama bin Laden and al
Qaeda in the mid-1990s--led us to ask him for a Muslim perspective on
current events. He was interviewed in his Barrows Hall office following
the end of the military campaign in Iraq.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is there a "clash of civilizations" going on today?

No. That's one of those meaningless slogans which people hold seminars
and write books about, which presumes an inherent and irreducible
antagonism. But what may be underway is the launching of World War IV,
as it's been called, most recently by James Woolsey [former director of
the CIA].

Woolsey said that the Cold War was the third World War, and that the
fourth is to defeat "terrorists" and to bring democracy to the Middle
East. He doesn't target Islam.

He doesn't say Islam because we're told this isn't a war against Islam.
But "World War IV" clearly focuses on Middle Eastern Muslim states.
Woolsey mentioned Syria and Iran and went on to talk about the Saudis
and the Egyptian regime. But if he thinks that the removal of the Saudi
regime would result in anything other than a recrudescence of hard-line,
undiluted Wahhabism, he's living in a world of fantasy. Likewise, if the
regime of Mubarak falls in Egypt, the strongest popular force again is
one that espouses some kind of relationship between Islam and politics.

One would find a virtual consensus on the subject throughout North
Africa and the Middle East, with the possible exception of Turkey, that
the state should in some sense be Islamic. Which doesn't mean an
imitation of the Iranian constitution, which is in my view in some ways
unwieldy and needing adaptation. It doesn't mean that the penal
provisions of the Shari'a need immediate implementation. But it does
mean that a total separation between the religious and the political is
incompatible with Islamic culture and history and understanding.

Has Turkey been successful as a secular state?

They've had more than 80 years to work things out in Turkey, and
obviously the matter has not yet been settled. One of the excuses
advanced by the army for its occasional forays into politics there is to
preserve secularism. Which must mean that the democratic process in
itself is inadequate to preserve secularism.

Just as an "Islamic state" remains an abstraction without further
definition and analysis, so does "secularism." Does it mean something on
American lines? Or on French lines, where, for example, students in
public schools are forbidden or discouraged from wearing signs of
religious identity, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or Jewish? Or
does it mean something like what we have in Turkey now, where, for
example, it is not possible for a woman observing the hejab [the
covering of the head] to teach or study in the university? If secularism
is to be understood in that sense, what we have is not in fact a
separation between church and state; it is, on the contrary, an
intervention on the part of the state in the religious life of the
individual.

In the United States, the belief is that the church and state should be
kept separate.

Separation of church and state makes perfect sense in light of American
history, in light of the American Constitution; but other countries have
different histories, they have different cultures, they have different
sets of beliefs. If one genuinely believes in pluralism, then one should
accept a plurality of cultures and of the political systems that emerge
from them.

Let me add that one cannot discern in Islamic history or in the Muslim
present any uniform, universally binding, and valid form of Islamic
government. To suggest that this is so is unrealistic; it does not do
justice either to the complexity of the present situation, or to the
complexity and variety that we find in Muslim history.

So if one says "Islamic state" or "Islamic government," it should not be
thought that there is one model that is universally applicable.
Precisely the course I've been teaching this semester, on the history of
Islamic political thought, shows that throughout the history of Islam
there's been a kind of continuing negotiation between principles taken
from the Qur'an and other authoritative sources, and the actual reality
of Muslim societies and countries.

When an American religious leader like Franklin Graham calls Islam "a
very evil and wicked religion," or a neoconservative like Norman
Podhoretz writes that "there is something in the religion [of Islam]
itself that legitimates the likes of Osama bin Laden," how do you respond?

I don't. I think for anyone to deserve a response he has to have a
minimum amount of correct knowledge, a minimum amount of decency, and a
minimum amount of intelligence. And I would say that both Graham and
Podhoretz, based on what you just read to me, are lacking in all three.
Therefore, they're not worthy of an answer.

But people do hear what they say and read what they write.

I know. This kind of nonsense has been spewed forth ever since the
Middle Ages, this kind of Islamophobic rhetoric. It's persisted as a
kind of subterranean rivulet of hatred in the West.

What one ought to take objection to, more clearly, is the link between
somebody like Franklin Graham and the U.S. government. On the one hand,
we have Bush proclaiming that Islam is a religion of peace, and on the
other hand we have Graham going to a Good Friday service at the Defense
Department, calling down God's blessings on the U.S. adventure in Iraq
while refusing in any way to dissociate himself from the remarks you
quoted. This creates the appearance of tolerance, if not acceptance, of
his views by a significant element in the United States government.

Let us suppose the impossible, that some Muslim preacher were invited
who rained down hostile epithets on other religions. People would be
justifiably outraged. But Islam is becoming increasingly fair game.

It's been said that, with the fall of the Soviet Union, Islam has
replaced Communism as the principal opponent of American democracy.

There always has to be a focus for hostility, to keep the juices pumped
and the military machine well supplied. Now, somewhat improbably,
Islam--or Muslims and Muslim countries--are fulfilling that role of a
global, long-term threat.

Although it's "militant Islam," not Islam in general, which is said to
be the threat.

Well, "militant" Islam because it's not politically correct to say
you're against a religion as such. Therefore, an adjective has to be
supplied: militant Islam, extremist Islam, Islamic terrorism, Islamic
fundamentalism, political Islam.

I would say that the Muslim world, or specifically the Muslim Middle
East, has been chosen not because it is strong, a menace, or a threat;
but, on the contrary, because it is an extremely weak and impotent
adversary.

But September 11th, terrorism, and Arab Muslims have been grouped
together as a threat to the West.

This is one of the gross disservices that Osama bin Laden has done,
precisely to Muslims, by giving a veneer of apparent credibility to a
pre-existing agenda for domination of the region.

Pre-existing?

Sure. Almost ten years ago, Israel called for a complete break with the
past, including the replacement of the Iraqi regime, among others.
People like Douglas Feith, and Richard Perle, who have been advisors to
the Israeli government, and Paul Wolfowitz--all of these people are on
record as espousing, long before September 11, precisely the kind of
policies that are now being implemented.

Another example of the unfortunate, to put it mildly, association
between Islamophobes and the government is Daniel Pipes, who started the
infamous "Campus Watch," which "monitors" Middle East scholars on U.S.
campuses.

Are you on the list?

I only recently made it.

Why only recently?

I don't know--inadequate research on his part? Maybe he needs to beef up
his staff a bit!

What is his purpose?

Pipes has made a career for himself by denouncing what he regards as the
dominance of Middle Eastern Studies departments at universities in the
United States by either Muslims or people who for whatever reason are
pro-Muslim, pro-Arab, pro-Palestinian, or anti-Israel.

 From your decades of teaching in a Middle Eastern Studies department,
how accurate is the charge?

It's highly inaccurate. For a long time, pro-Palestinian voices were a
small and beleaguered minority. It is true that things have changed
somewhat in recent decades. But to characterize the whole field as
somehow conspiratorially dominated by such voices at present is a gross
distortion.

What Pipes is basing himself on is the assumption that Middle Eastern
Studies departments should have as their primary purpose the furnishing
of accurate information that will be useful in the formulation and
execution of American foreign policy. In other words, the academic,
scholarly purposes of Middle Eastern studies, as such, are invalid. And
on that basis he criticizes, very broadly, a whole variety of people.

This too represents a change, a rise, in the undercurrent of
Islamophobia. The fact that it can now be expressed in semi-respectable
circles is due to a large number of relatively recent factors.

Such as?

The rise of a certain type of Christian fundamentalism, in tandem with
the neoconservatives and Zionists, and then the gift--I use the term
sarcastically--of Osama bin Laden.

Let's talk about the war in Iraq.


One can evaluate the war in Iraq from a variety of points of view; and
obviously it's had different types of results, some of which can be
positively evaluated, others negatively.

What are the positive results?

Well, the destruction of Saddam's abominable regime. Whether the U.S.
had the right to undertake the task, whether it could have been done in
a different way, at a lower cost in human life, are separate questions.
But the important thing is that now the Iraqi people should be free to
choose, not simply from a range of personalities or ideologies or
systems recommended by the United States, but what they actually want.

If democracy is to mean anything, it must mean respect for the majority
and its wishes. And if, which seems increasingly likely, the majority
wish in Iraq turns out to be some form of Islamic government, that is
really no concern of anyone outside the country.

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has said that an Islamic state is
not an option for Iraq.

Yes. Which shows that the true agenda is not to bring democracy to Iraq.

What would you say the agenda is?

Extending and reinforcing American hegemony in the Middle East, in close
coordination with Israel. That's pretty clear, I think. The aim is not
simply the elimination of a government--whose hostility to Israel didn't
amount to much more than rhetoric and a couple of missiles lobbed at Tel
Aviv during the first Gulf War--but beyond that the installation of a
government that will endorse the so-called peace process. So, gradually,
to dismantle any form of resistance to Israel as it is presently
constituted, that is, as an occupying power, on the part of any state in
the region.

And that's one reason why Iran has been mentioned as a possible next target?

Yes.

I assume that, in your view, an Islamic state in Iraq, like the one in
Iran, would not be a bad thing.

Since I'm neither Iraqi nor Iranian, and I don't live in either country,
my point of view is really not of importance. I think what we can all
agree upon is that people in those states, in fact in any state or
country in the world, should be at liberty freely to determine their
form of government. And if an Islamic state is chosen by the Iraqi
people, then so be it.

Jay Garner [former overseer in Iraq] was quoted in the New York Times as
saying that an Islamic republic is incompatible with democracy. Well,
what if a democratic majority in Iraq wants an Islamic republic?

I think that Americans would very rightly object if, in some future
world where American power has shrunk, a foreign state came and said:
Well, we don't like this or that aspect of your government; or the whole
system has to go; or what you can choose from is the following range,
but nothing outside of that. Obviously, that would be rejected as
outrageous. It's simply an expression of the gross imbalance of power
between the United States and the Muslim world, particularly in the
Middle East, that this kind of discussion arises in the first place and
is not found questionable: that you can have this kind of government,
but not that.

I think a more appropriate question, given what is currently under way,
would be whether American imperialism and democracy are compatible.

Twenty years ago, Iran was the focus of U.S. concern, not Iraq. Why the
change?

In every generation, one person or state is seen to be the source of
trouble, and everything must therefore be linked to that person or
state. It used to be Abdul Nasser, in the heyday of Arab nationalism;
anything that happened that upset the West could ultimately be traced to
Nasser.

Then, after the revolution in Iran, it became Iran, Imam Khomeini, and
more generally Shi'ism. Then, for a while, as a focus and gathering
point of troublesome people, there arose Sunni fundamentalism and
Wahhabism. Attempts are constantly made to interconnect everyone. It
does make life easier because then you don't have to analyze differences
or overlapping divergences. You can just say: "It's that big mass of
troublesome Muslims out there."

But there has been a connection between Islam and violence. Wasn't Islam
spread by the sword?

The early Islamic expansion obviously was a military expansion. But that
did not result in the forced conversion to Islam of the populations that
came under Islamic rule. In Syria, for example, a Christian majority
persisted for at least two, possibly three, centuries after the Muslim
conquest. The largest Muslim country in the world, Indonesia, is a
country where no Muslim armies from the Middle East ever went.

I think that if one compares the history of most branches of
Christianity and the way in which they were established, the comparison
is in favor of the Muslim record. And, if one wants to bring matters
down to the present, it has not been even ten years since the genocide
in Bosnia was brought to an end. And this genocide of the Muslim
population was brought about, it has to be said, with the explicit
blessing of the Serb Orthodox Church. Having been to Bosnia and seen
soccer fields turned into cemeteries, and having talked to some of the
survivors of the massacre at Srebrenica, I find it very hard to listen
with equanimity to accusations that Muslims are the major purveyors of
arbitrary violence in this age. It's absolutely incredible to say so.

What about suicide bombers?

That term, an invention of the West, does not represent the perspective
of those who engage in such action and is not very helpful. It seems to
me that such actions are closer to the case of a soldier who, in battle
against overwhelming odds and in the certain knowledge that he will not
emerge alive from the encounter, rushes upon the enemy.

What if the enemy is composed of innocent women and children?

I think the following has to be taken into consideration: that these
so-called suicide bombings did not start until a considerable time after
the beginning of the Intifada, when a large number of Palestinian
children had been killed by Israeli forces, for nothing other than
throwing a stone, or in some cases not even that. It was only after such
casualties had begun to mount that this tactic was used.

In addition, there is the simple fact that the Palestinian people are
now facing, effectively alone and with great courage, one of the best
equipped and most ruthless military forces in the world. And while no
one can take pleasure in the sight, as you say, of women and children
being killed, it seems to me that a greater degree of moral condemnation
should be reserved for those who continue, daily, with impunity, to kill
and to humiliate the Palestinian people. In other words, there is
definitely a cause-and-effect relationship here, and to criticize or
condemn an effect while overlooking the cause is not very helpful.

What can be done?

The very least that is owed to the Palestinian people is that they
should have a life of security, independence, and dignity on a very
small portion of their ancestral territory. The West Bank and Gaza
constitute less than 20 percent of historic Palestine. In addition, the
right of return for Palestinian refugees is indispensable.

More broadly, as far as the Islamic world in the Middle East is
concerned, the real problem is that there has been too much outside
interference. I'm not one of those who says that all of the ills of the
Muslim world are exclusively the result of imperialism and Zionism. No.
On the other hand, if this ugly combination of confrontation and
condescension that one sees from the West were to be removed from the
equation, then I think that, after a period of trial and error, finally,
the Muslim nations would be able to get their affairs in order. But this
constant intrusion, which in its extreme form takes on the aspect of
military aggression, is not helpful; it cannot in the very nature of
things produce a stable result.

[bA final question: As a Muslim, do you find life more difficult these
days? [/b]

Personally, not much at all, apart from a general sense of being
beleaguered. Berkeley, both the campus and the city are different from
much of the rest of the country, thank God.

To disapprove of American policy in the Middle East is one thing; to
have the pleasure of living here is another. After all, there are a vast
number of intelligent and decent people in this country who themselves
advance many of the same criticisms I have outlined.


See also:
http://www.alumni.berkeley.edu/Alumni/Cal_Monthly/June_2003/QA-_A_conversation_with_Hamid_Algar.asp


___\
Stay Strong\
\
 "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \
--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\
\
"This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\
of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\
--HellRazah\
\
"It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\
--Mutabartuka\
\
"As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \
our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \
actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\
 - Frantz Fanon\
\
"Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\
-Imam Ja'far Sadiq\
\
http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\
\
http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \
\
http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\
\
http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\
\
}
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jan 2005 17:09:05 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I think Jon has opened up an intermediating discussion/debate here - and re
interpretation - it seems to pivot on what is meant to any reader/writer
anyone -what "interpretation " means  - which leads us to Derrida? etal? -
and back towards Alan's poem/polemic/poetic - part of his project - which is
brilliant (as an example of deconstructive poetics?) but brilliant if one
knows nothing of all that - as a "pure poem' but ....

[Nudel is  is writing longer poems some are  very good - capital in fact -
capital I say!! Winter is making him warm perhaps?]

I think that to say that poetry is about the fragmentation of the self and
that that is what is wrong with it is maybe open to question-
fragmentation - reality itself is 'fragmented' - poems - great poems (how do
we define a great poem?)  (questions have to be begged at various points -
some premises assumed...); so-called great poems have their origin in
language as spoken - - for all of us start out in life hearing our mother's
voice and others around us -our father/siblings etc etc  or nurses or - but
we are primarily seeing beings - well - does that mean that we have to read
poem aloud that is designed as such? [I meant to say we are primarily
speaking beings ] [but we are also primarily seeing beings as well  lol!!]

["We are primarly nothing!!" - I supperpurppose Monsieur Bowering will
snnnortlemackymmuttlely him taa  'e eemsel'   bu' niaechtly soondlosslessly
oooeivieer in Koaanaeeeadiaaa...(enjoyieescysinging eemself ta slafff
awaaaku-ooe! oof!)]

I read a lot of poetry aloud to myself - but who knows who reads what
aloud - of each person's work? -in St Augustine's day people read aloud
(suposedly -no expert on his day or time...)  -it was common it was then the
norm I believe ( but not many people read then)- he mentions coming across
someone reading a book and his astonishment that the reader is not
enunciating the words

some fascinating questions - feel out of my depth already!  -infinite
numbers of semantic possibilities generated by texts perhaps with various
major interpretations - this is astute and "on to it" by Alison and Sontag -
she was a great thinker / writer.

fragmentation of the self - at least as a device, is quite valid  - and it
informs and makes much poetry intagliate rich  - but there are other methods
of attack - other strategies - not better or worse... different approaches -
hermeneutics and - thus responses etc etc as we 'translate' a poem /poems /a
work /a text / texts....

in the very sememes the meaning burns

Richard Taylor500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alison Croggon" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry


> Hi Jon
>
> On 24/1/05 4:35 AM, "Jon Corelis"  wrote:
>
>> This is the idea that definitive interpretation is to be shunned because
>> it
>> destroys poetry by assuming that a poem's meaning can be definitively
>> exhausted, as a riddle or puzzle has no use but to be discarded once it's
>> solved.  The logical fallacy here is a false dichotomy:  the choice isn't
>> between insisting that only one interpretation can be valid or accepting
>> that
>> all interpretations must be valid.  A poem, a true and great poem, is a
>> riddle
>> that has an infinite number of right answers, but that doesn't mean that
>> any
>> answer someone cares to give to it must be right.
>
> Aren't there other problems with interpretation than merely its tendencies
> towards definitiveness? I'm can't quite follow how you leap from
> advocating
> a memory of the presence of utterance or dance - ie, performance which
> requires mutual bodily presences and recalls ritualistic roots - to the
> question of interpretation.  There's a chasm in the middle here... Surely
> a
> poem is much more than interpretation, and the idea of presence you
> outline
> challenges the assumption that it is? It suggests to me that a poem is not
> so much a riddle which requires answers of varying accuracy, but a
> something
> in itself, which may require no answering at all, that mining it for
> meaning
> might be to evade or even destroy the actual poem -  Famously, Sontag's
> 1964
> argument, which interesting uses the word "impious":
>
> "...the contemporary zeal towards interpretation is often prompted not by
> piety towards the troublesome text (which may conceal aggression) but by
> an
> open aggressiveness, an overt contempt for appearances.  ... The modern
> style of interpretation excavates, destroys: it digs "behind" the text, to
> find a sub-text that is the true one. The most celebrated and influential
> modern doctrines, those of Marx and Freud, actually amount to elaborate
> systems of hermeneutics, aggressive and impious theories of
> interpretation.
> This manifest content must be probed and pushed aside to find the true
> meaning - the _latent content_ beneath...according to Marx and Freud,
> these
> events [history, personal events] only seem to be intelligible.  Actually,
> they have no meaning without interpretation. To understand _is_ to
> interpret.  And to interpret is to restate the phenomenon, in effect to
> find
> an equivalent for it.
>
> "This interpretation is not (as some people assume) an absolute value, a
> gesture of mind situated in some timeless realm of capabilities.
> Interpretation itself must be evaluated.  In some cultural contexts,
> interpretation is a liberating act.  It is a means of revising, of
> transvaluing, of escaping the dead past.  In other cultural contexts, it
> is
> reactionary, impertinent, cowardly, stifling."
>
> (Against Interpretation)
>
> Best
>
> A
>
>
> Alison Croggon
>
> Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
> Editor, Masthead:  http://masthead.net.au
> Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>
>



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:37:37 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         alexander saliby 
Subject:      Re: winter....
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Grand
mother
shoveled

mostly coal...

found
white
only
in Minsk...
winter dressed

moved to Newark
felt blessed
the rest
she said was up to us

she wore white
to her own funeral
I felt her presence

 in the air
on my sweater
there
everywhere...


Alex=20




  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Harry Nudel=20
  To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 12:59 AM
  Subject: winter....


  in Siberia
  my mother

  would shovel
  snow 'etter

  than any man
  'you have to see

  in your mind
  how to do it'

  tiny hands
  no force

  strength of...


  3:00...she wore winter white to the inauguration...drn..
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:47:57 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      last call  - 2 gins please
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Wednesday, January 26, 8:00 pm
Joshua Beckman & Steven Dalachinsky
Joshua Beckman is the author of four books of poetry: Things Are
Happening,
Something I Expected To Be Different, Nice Hat. Thanks. (with Matthew
Rohrer), and, most recently, Your Time Has Come. He is also the
translator
of Poker by Tomaz Salamun. He lives in Staten Island, NY. Steven
Dalachinsky¹s work appears regularly in journals on- and offline, and is
also featured in the infamous Outlaw Bible of American Poetry. His most
recent books include Trial and Error in Paris and Trust Fund Babies.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:37:46 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
MIME-Version: 1.0
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the inflated tear/aka/ the surprise of love
for john fisk


eating brownies
at such a distance
over so much time & so little
distance
with so much space because i
found my tongue too
late

pen thief
dogs wade thru the wires
conspiring

drinker
dogs burn their paws
on salted sidewalks

smoker
the blind dog rubs its nose
in the snow
& then on my pant-leg

smoker
i stole the writing from
the walls

me here why
sold out my sickness
kissing the arses
of yes men

words tossed into the ring
sentences sentenced to death

i am good at creating accidents
fissures
lesions

words are not sentences
& it all resides in the bone
& marrow
not in the heart as some believe

i am on your track now
we have this & that in common
but i will be 2 weeks older than you
no longer

maybe i will learn to drive again
then learn to drink & smoke & swallow
& shoot & shout & shut myself all up again

maybe i'll tonic my gin
again
& give myself a hot shot in the
left pocket
where stones remain
to remind me
of my sins

then i'll gun the gas
& race thru the past to get to
the future
in order to arrive in the past
again -

& there i'll unveil this tear
for you
amazed that i am still among
the "living"

& by the way
i too am hungry & angry
& missing
a couple of teeth.

                                               steve dalachinsky nyc
@ john fisk memorial @ the poetry project 1/22/05 & at "home" 1/24/05
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 04:22:15 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter....
Mime-Version: 1.0
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snow
drifts thru
the mind

piles on
irony's
cold feet...


3:00...unnecessary roughness....drn
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:24:40 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Eric Elshtain 
Subject:      KGB Bar Reading
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Konundrum Engine Literary Review Poetry Reading

Saturday January 29, 2005, 7pm
        at KGB Bar 85 E. 4th St. (between 2nd and 3rd Ave.), New York, NY



The Konundrum Engine Literary Review presents readings by featured
poets on Saturday, January 29 at 7pm. The line-up includes:  Michael Burkard,
Adam Clay, Eric Elshtain, Cate Marvin, and Jon Woodward.



Hosted by poetry editor Alex Lemon.

 For more information, visit the Konundrum Engine website at
http://lit.konundrum.com or e-mail lit@konundrum.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:56:24 +0100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Kevin Magee 
Subject:      Fwd: Call for Papers
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Begin fwd:

Polish Association for American Studies: 2005 Conference

CONFORMITY AND RESISTANCE IN AMERICA
Kamie Iski, 23-25 October 2005

From Ralph W. Emerson, who in his essays defined self-reliance as
nonconformity, to Edward W. Said, who has recently addressed the
so-called 'humanities crisis' by way of referring to an urgent need of
the other traditions/humanities, there has been in America a constant
awareness of tensions existing between the canonical and the
marginalized, the central and the peripheral.

In his 2000 essay 'Humanism's Sphere,' Said reminds us of the musical
etymology of the word canon--a contrapuntal form employing numerous
voices--and goes on to say: 'the canonical humanities, far from being
a rigid tablet of fixed rules and monuments bullying us from the
past... will always remain open to changing combinations of sense and
signification; every reading and interpretation of a canonical work...
allows the modern and the new to be situated together in a broad,
historical field whose usefulness is that it shows us history as an
agonistic process still being made, rather than finished and settled
once for all.'

Consequently, we are interested in all those issues that address the
American canonical humanities as a space of fruitful tensions between
what has been generally acknowledged as the canon and what has been
questioning and subverting its very foundations and archives. This
includes various areas of American cultural and literary studies,
gender and minority studies, political and legal theories, philosophy
and sociology, history of art, etc. The following topics are mere
suggestions:

- the Emersonian heritage of self-reliance understood as
nonconformity; ways of destabilizing the American identity; sublime
modes of American culture; figures of the American anti-hero and
rebel; revisions of the American Myth/Dream

- the heritage of American pragmatism: conformity or resistance?

- the place of the American university as annexed by medical,
biotechnical, defense and corporate interests (Masao Miyoshi's thesis)

- revival of the suppressed languages and cultures; the U.S. as a
polyglot country; diasporic communities and minority writing;
interpretations of multi-cultural and multi-ethnic America

- the American art in the XX century and beyond: from the Armory Show
to the 'last avant-garde' (David Lehman) and '21st-Century Modernism'
(Marjorie Perloff); the atonal and the aleatory

- revisions of global economy; 'resistance to the overmastering
paradigm of globalization' (E. Said); ecology and/vs technology in
American agriculture

- political correctness, liberal conformism and conservative
opposition; the dialectics of the 'American proposition'

Deadline for topic proposals and brief summaries is June 30th, 2005.
Presentations should not be longer than 25 minutes (faculty members of
the ASC will coordinate workshops). Conference proceedings will be
published.

The conference fee, covering room and board, is 500 PLN (ca. 123
Euro).

200-word abstracts should be sent to

Dr. Tomasz Lebiecki
tomaszlebiecki@interia.pl

For further details, please contact

Dr. Jacek Gutorow
dreadwork@interia.pl

Dr. Warcaw Grzybowski
wgrzybowski@poczta.wp.pl

End fwd.

--

Kevin Magee
Visiting Lecturer
American Literature and Culture
University of Lodz, Poland
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:49:30 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Vernon Frazer 
Subject:      INVENTORY REDUCTION--I'M GIVING AWAY A NOVLE AND A SHORT SOTRY
              COLLECTION
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Because my storage space is tight, I have to make room for a large
publishing project. To do so, I'm giving away RELIC'S REUNIONS, a novel, and
STAY TUNED TO THIS CHANNEL, a short story collection that was a finalist in
the last Black Ice/FC2 Fiction Contest..

Here are capsule descriptions:


RELIC'S REUNIONS:

In Relic's Reunions, Edsel Relic, a highschool outcast turned performance
poet, receives a telephone call from his unrequited teenage love, who
invites him to attend his 25th class reunion -just as he's reeling from a
mid-life diagnosis of Tourette Syndrome. Relic's debate over attending
careens from narrative to stream-of-consciousness to TV script in a
mixed-media mind-movie while his supporting cast of jazz musicians, high
school jocks, patriotic principals, early-60's hipsters-and a cameo
appearance by the most trusted man in America, Walter Cronkite-scrawls a
jazz-fueled American Graffiti on the wall of the America that brought us the
sixties.


STAY TUNED TO THIS CHANNEL:

A young jazz musician on a cruise ship discovers a magical dimension to his
talent that threatens a new romance. A novice bureaucrat challenges the
sanity of the person he replaces in a literary Mobius strip.  The
mock-autobiography of a poster boy for a conduct disorder careens through a
collage of narratives, headlines and commercials that creates an irreverent
send-up of the tabloid mentality. An unpub-lished writer questions his
sanity and the creative process itself when his work appears in print under
another author's name. Frazer's narrative techniques create a mixed-media
surrounding of the senses through which a wit whips from antic to acidic at
the turn of a phrase. In the course of challenging conventional assumptions
about what constitutes reality, Stay Tuned to this Channel seeks---and
finds---a heightened reality whose distortions present a pointed reflection
of daily life in America's commodity-driven culture.


Please backchannel your surface mailing address and I'll send you the
copies.

Vernon
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:44:15 -0500
Reply-To:     Mike Kelleher 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mike Kelleher 
Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center
Subject:      JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 1-24-05
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 1-24-05

EVENTS THIS WEEK

Gusto at The Gallery
Just Buffalo Hosts a Poetry Reading at the Albright-Knox
Friday, January 28, 6-8 p.m. Free.

Featuring: Chris Alexander, Michael Basinski, Gregg Biglieri, Sarah
Campbell, Barbara Cole, Michael Cross, Thom Donovan, Geoffrey Gatza, Douglas
Manson , Jonathan Skinner

Chris Alexander's work has recently appeared in *Antennae*. Michael
Basinski's most recent books include Pomes Popeye Papyrus (Slack Buddha
Press) and Abzu (Run Away Spoon Press). Gregg Biglieri's most recent
chapbook is _Reading Keats to Sleep_ (Cuneiform Press, 2003).  Sarah
Campbell is a Ph. D student in UB's Poetics Program and editor of _P-Queue_.
Barbara Cole's chapbooks include *little wives* and *postcards.* Michael
Cross is editor of Atticus / Finch chapbooks and the public poetry project
"secret swan."  Thom Donovan is a teacher and writer currently writing a
dissertation on poetry and "virtuality" in the Poetics Program at
SUNY-Buffalo.
Geoffrey Gatza puiblishes blazevox online and blazevox books. Douglas Manson
's latest work _The Dew Neal_ is available from Slack Buddha Press.
Jonathan Skinner's first book, Political Cactus Poems (Palm Press), is about
to be released.

UPCOMING

ANSELM BERRIGAN AND STEFAN KIESBYE
Poetry and Fiction Reading
Friday, February 4, 8 p.m.
$4, $3 student, $2 members
The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo, Tri-Main Center, 2495 Main Street, Ste.
512

SPECIAL ONE-DAY POETRY WORKSHOP WITH ANSELM BERRIGAN

STITCHING TOGETHER A VOICE, with Anselm Berrigan
Saturday, February 5 12-4 p.m., $50, $40 members

I want to examine the artistic co-habitation of two apparently opposing
ideas: that every poet has a distinct voice, and that every voice is
constructed (a made thing). The idea being to put both notions to use in
order to write rich, long, complicated, independent-minded poems that handle
multiple subjects and that audiences want to read and hear. Another way of
putting it is looking directly at autobiographical material and external
(received, researched, appropriated, for starters) language and information
as capable of sharing the same space within poetic forms. Work by poets
Kevin Davies and Harryette Mullen involved. Participants should bring some
work in progress or notes or unfinished anythings to use as potential
material, and some reading materials of any types.

Anselm Berrigan is the author of Integrity & Dramatic Life and Zero Star
Hotel (both from Edge Books), and a CD (reading only) Pictures for Private
Devotion (www.narrowhouserecordings.com). Recent work can be found on-line
at www.gutcult.com and www.2ndavenue.com . He lives in New York City, where
he grew up, and is the Artistic Director of the Poetry Project at St. Mark's
Church-in-the-Bowery. He also lived in Buffalo from 1989-1993 while
attending UB.

BLACK HISTORY MONTH EVENTS AT JUST BUFFALO

ALONG THIS WAY: STORYTELLING IN THE AFRICAN TRADITION
Saturday, February 5th, 2 P.M.
Buffalo and Erie County Central Library, 1 Lafayette Square, Buffalo
Free and open to the public

This annual fun-for-the-family program celebrates the African oral tradition
through stories, fables, folktales, epics, legends, songs, poems, and even
jokes. Featuring storytellers Sharon Holley and Karima Amin, drummer Eddie
Nicholson, and vocalist Joyce Carolyn.

MS. FAT BOOTY AND THE BLACK MALE FEMINIST
A Talk by scholar Mark Anthony Neal
Langston Hughes Institute, 25 High Street, at 7pm.
The event is free and open to the public.

A former graduate student in the Department of American Studies at the
University at Buffalo, Professor Neal is widely known for his provocative
perspectives on contemporary black life and his public lectures and
presentations on notable figures in black culture, from politicians to
popular music artists, including Tupac Shakur, Michael Jackson, Al Sharpton,
Meshell N'degeocello, Marvin Gaye, and Shirley Chisolm. He is the author of
four books: NewBlackMan: Redefining Black Masculinity (Routledge, 2005);
Songs in the Key of Black Life: A Rhythm and Blues Nation (Routledge, 2003);
Soul Babies: Contemporary Black Popular Culture and the Post-Soul Aesthetic
(Routledge, 2002); What the Music Said: Black Popular Music and Black Public
Culture (Routledge, 1998). Copies of Professor Neal's books will be
available at the talk. For more information contact the Department of Women'
s Studies at UB, 645-2327.

A Joint Production of The Women's Studies Department at SUNY Buffalo,
Langston Hughes Institute, and Just Buffalo Literary Center.

COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS

ARTWORK BY JEFFREY VINCENT
Sunday, January 30, 2 p.m.
Rust Belt Books,
Check out this unique showing and join us for a closing party with rarely
seen art, music, poetry readings by some of the town's hidden finest.

If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will be
immediately removed.

_______________________________
Mike Kelleher
Artistic Director
Just Buffalo Literary Center
2495 Main St., Ste. 512
Buffalo, NY 14214
716.832.5400
716.832.5710 (fax)
www.justbuffalo.org
mjk@justbuffalo.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:25:31 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Barrett Watten 
Subject:      Slovenians at Wayne State
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bojana Kunst and Igor Stromajer:
"Impossible Connections"

February 3, 2005, 3:30pm
Room 10302, 5057 Woodward
Wayne State University, Detroit

The presentation will focus on the recent projects created by Intima=20
Virtual Base: Ballettikka Internettikka (www.intima.org/ballettikka) and=20
wPack (www.intima.org/wpack), which are using impossible connections to=20
develop possible strategies of resistance and disobedience. The projects=20
are participating in the already existing protocols of communication, but=20
without being servile to them, opening up links between emotionality and=20
technology, production and ethics, desire and organization, imagination and=
=20
institution. The distribution of politics and intimacy without any reason=20
and purpose, with the use of limited, incestuous, defined and controlled=20
protocols is a dystopia and a nonservile revolt to the world of capital,=20
which can be disarmed only with the use of its own incestuous tactics.

- - - - -

Dr. Bojana Kunst is a philosopher and performing art theoretician. She is=20
currently working as a post-doctoral researcher at the University of=20
Ljubljana, Faculty of Arts - Department for Sociology. She is a member of=20
the editorial board of Maska Magazine and vice-president of the Slovenian=20
Association for Aesthetics. Her essays have appeared in numerous journals=20
and publications and she has taught and lectured extensively in Europe. She=
=20
published three books, among them Impossible Body (Ljubljana 1999),=20
Dangerous Connections: Body, Philosophy and Relation to the Artificial=20
(Ljubljana, 2004).
http://www.kunstbody.org

- - - - -

Igor Stromajer is an intimate mobile communicator. He researches tactical=20
emotional states and traumatic low-tech strategies. He has shown his work=20
at more than a hundred exhibitions in forty-two countries and received a=20
number of awards. His works are included in the permanent collections of=20
the Centre Georges Pompidou, Paris, France; the Museo Nacional Reina Sof=EDa=
,=20
Madrid, Spain; Moderna galerija Ljubljana, Slovenia; Computerfinearts=20
Gallery - net and media art collection, New York, USA; and permanently=20
exhibited at the Hamburger Kunsthalle, Hamburg, Germany.
http://www.intima.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:07:12 -0800
Reply-To:     Ron Silliman 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ron Silliman 
Subject:      Silliman's Blog
Comments: cc: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/


RECENT POSTS

From Helen Adam to Eileen Tabios:
Poetry & its arts: Bay Area Interactions

A note on manners

In Contact:
Jesse Seldess
Midway between Giorno & Zukofsky

On the road to Moe's

Thinking through Dylan's prose

Unsourced anger:
Bob Dylan's Chronicles, Vol. One

On Journals:
Online vs. in-hand

Martin Scorsese at the top of his form:
Choreographing The Aviator

Pwoermds =E2=80=93
One-word poems

The perfection of new forms
As additions to nature:
"post-langpo," "post-painting"

Rachel Blau DuPlessis
On the politics of the ballad

On not reading
Guy Davenport

The sexiest poem of 2004

Inventing Milwaukee:
Morgan Gibson, Karl Young & Karl Gartung

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:32:20 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harrison Jeff 
Subject:      Moon, Unrest Milk, Shine Younger Over Newly-Assigned Seasons
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

the anatomy of that shepherdess
has been found a clench of words
by those born under the Lyre,
you who altered maids' cruelty into silver
who insisted lichens on headstones
came up mightier than clouds, mightier even
than foam 'pon boat-beaming seas, lay aside
your mourns lapping commended damsels
go to clamoring the Moon's Sleep we sighted never
where the dead, stitched inside white raiment once
sported by the finest elegists, pour, thunderous as
dust, white vintages -- but none whiter than
their bones, Moon, could you entice, Moon, sleep-water
away from its plain edges into something more severing?
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:05:00 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Robert Corbett 
Subject:      Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
In-Reply-To:  <311JaVsWh4800S03.1106419713@uwdvg003.cms.usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

a rather pure instance of phonocentrism, which is a kissing cousin of logocentrism (child of phallogocentrism.)

if this is correct, there is no such thing as world poetry.  yet translation is exactly what poetry always does and will always do.

try again, jon.

Robert

Jon Corelis  wrote:
My thanks to Rebecca Seiferle for her response. (The Yeats quote she refers
to actually was posted to another list than poetics. If anyone's interested
in it I'll send it here too.)

Trying to think through the Govinda remarks:

If this view of poetry is correct, then poetry must be defined as the art
whose material is utterance, and utterance must be taken in the strict sense:
words physically spoken aloud. This in turn implies that if someone writes a
text on the assumption that others are going to read it silently, that text
cannot be considered poetry, just as, if someone writes a musical score, not
as something for musicians to play, but as something for readers of scores to
examine visually, then that production cannot reasonably be considered music.
And this implies that most of the poetry being written in English today,
really isn't.

The above view of poetry may seem eccentric and extreme, but through much of
human history it would have been too obvious to need saying. The idea that
what a poem really is, is the text that embodies it, is a modern invention,
which to much of past culture would have seemed as weird as the idea that what
Beethoven's Fifth Symphony really is, is the score to it. The degeneration of
poem into text is the great source of the failure of poetry in our time.


=====================================
Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org

www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=====================================


____________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:11:13 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Robert Corbett 
Subject:      Re: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

hard to believe that Doestoevsky was of the left, given the picture he gives in The Possessed, but I don't know enough to say otherwise.  HOWEVER, the fact that you do not know of the tradition of the religious left in the US does not mean it does not exist.  it does indeed:  the organizations leading the call for forgiveness of debt for the third world are mainline churches.  please oh please people, do not mistake the Southern Baptist Convention and the Christian Coalition for the beliefs of all christians, regardless of adjective in this country.  as for religious left-wing intelligentsia, look at Cornel West, Stanley Hauerwas, and indeed the journal Sojourner.

Robert

Masha Zavialova  wrote:
Dostoevsky was not a religious conservative, he was a religious left. he
belonged to the religious left wing intelligentsia. While it is unthinkable
here in America it was the case in Russia (and it may still be). Organized
religion is purely political and it can position itself at any point on the
political spectrum, depending on its doctrines. It so happened in America
that American Christians support the doctrine of prosperity as the sign of
divine grace and thus flock together with the rich and powerful. If the
Christian groups who opposed the rich won historically they would have been
among the persecuted now, and on the extreme left.

-----Original Message-----
From: UB Poetics discussion group
[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Elizabeth Rich
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 2:02 PM
To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Re: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky


Dostoyevsky called himself a "doubter." I don't have the source with me
today, but when I read his biography a long time ago, a quote from a
letter that he had written stood out, and I will always remember it. It
said that he very much wanted to be a Christian and to have faith, but
he couldn't give himself over to complete, unquestioning faith. His
desire for faith seems to be what made him critical of the
intelligensia. He's wonderfully unresolved, so he's always in a position
of cutting right through ideological blinders.

Thanks for posting the article!

--Elizabeth Rich

--
Sincerely,
Elizabeth Rich, Ph.D.

*********************************
Department of English
164 Science East
Saginaw Valley State University
7400 Bay Road
University Center, MI 48710-0001
(989) 964-4317
*********************************

"No one, not even the least privileged amongst us, is ever entirely
powerless over the messages that traverse and position him at the post
of the sender, addressee, or referent."

--Jean-Francois Lyotard from *The Postmodern Condition: A Report on
Knowledge*
>>> robertmc00@YAHOO.COM 01/21/05 1:47 PM >>>
Baldwin's book about the killer of black children in Atlanta is still
the most important anyone has said about race recently.

by the way, wasn't Doestevsky a nationalist or a slavophile more than a
religious conservative? i see no way that someone who was dogmatically
or prescriptively religious could imagine the voices he does. basically
he makes Tolstoy seem sentimental (even Christian, for chrissakes).

Robert

Stephen Vincent wrote:
Good piece, Aldon! Made me think also of James Baldwin ominous 1964 New
Yorker essay call to action, The Fire Next Time. Which is also a quote
from
the Bible, right? Indeed - not that Baldwin was trying to burn the
country
down (to the contrary), but within the next two years, it was Detroit
and
several other cities in various flames. Ironically some good Civil
Rights
legislation emerged from it all - whether from non-violent or violent
actions, or the combination of both.
Ironically, George & Co.'s use of the 9-11 flame has been aggressively
oppressive on all fronts, I am afraid. 'Freedom' is just another word
for
something to abuse.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com




>> To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited
site,
>> go to http://www.guardian.co.uk
>>
>> Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
>> Given the Biblical language in which George Bush and his
speechwriters are
>> steeped, it is not surprising that the US president should invoke the
>> imagery of fire, writes James Meek
>> James Meek
>> Friday January 21 2005
>> The Guardian
>>
>>
>> One of the models of American leadership is that of Moses, leading
God's
>> chosen people - then the Jews, now the Americans - towards a promised
>> land, following a pillar of fire. At one point, according to the
Bible,
>> Moses was shown a sign: "Behold, the bush burned with fire, and the
bush
>> was not consumed."
>>
>> But the key fire passage in the Burning Bush speech - "We have lit a
fire
>> as well; a fire in the minds of men" - actually has its origins in a
novel
>> by the 19th century Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Devils,
about
>> a group of terrorists' ineffectual struggle to bring down the
tyrannical
>> Tsarist regime.
>>
>> One of the characters declares that it is pointless to try to put out
a
>> fire started by terrorists: "The fire is in the minds of men and not
in
>> the roofs of houses," he says.
>>
>> The novel belongs to a period in Dostoevsky's life which the White
House
>> might find attractive, after he had been sent by the Tsar to a kind
of
>> Russian Guant*namo and emerged a deeply religious conservative.
>>
>> Nonetheless, it is not clear whether Bush is identifying here with
the
>> terrorists - or the tyrants.
>>
>> Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> "and now it's winter in America"
> --Gil Scott-Heron
>
>
> Aldon Lynn Nielsen
> George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature
> Department of English
> The Pennsylvania State University
> 116 Burrowes
> University Park, PA 16802-6200
>
> (814) 865-0091 [office]
>
> (814) 863-7285 [Fax]
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:32:02 -0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "david.bircumshaw" 
Subject:      Fw: Boring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David Bircumshaw

Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet
& Painting Without Numbers

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/


----- Original Message -----
From: "david.bircumshaw" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:05 AM
Subject: Boring


I've been reviewing posts on lists, of a supposedly poetic nature, and what I must have to say is how dull the general tenor of them
is: I dunno, but if I look at my life, and the way people talk in the vernacular, the fucking airy-headed bollocks that often comes
out on lists has no relationship with anything resembling reality. I listen, I experience, I know the way life breathes, and what
happens in my reality and the vocabulary of the poetic scene seem to have no more than a passing acquaintance.

Pah, what do you do if you have a little disabled girlfriend who is being threatened by a muscle-bound stalker who has just come out
of the nick? Call the police I've been told, even by the local heavy mob, but she's got her sixteen year old lad just back living
with her after eight years and him being kicked out by his foster mother on the day before his birthday, which was xmas day, so he's
now down with us in Leicester instead of Nottingham but I'm the only mate he's got here, he just pals with mommy apart from me,
we're desperately trying to get him into playing Monopoly. I use this anecdotal stuff to make my point, about what the connection
between the discourse of poetic debate and poetic language itself has with what really goes on.

All the Best Guys and Gals

Dave



David Bircumshaw

Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet
& Painting Without Numbers

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:37:32 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      Lodz Ghetto...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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thot it rather suave of
Kevin Magee in the home
of the Lodz Ghetto
on the anniv.
of the liberation of auschwitz
to quote
betwixt & between
said said
that the final
solution to the jew prob...

was
Pan-Arabism...


drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:44:48 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Lucas Klein 
Subject:      Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry
In-Reply-To:  <20050125010500.78808.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a speech on translation at Simmins College (Boston) last fall, translator
Red Pine (Bill Porter) discussed how he's always viewed the text to be the
recipe of poetry, to be filled in by the act of reading IN ANY LANGUAGE. The
reading is the poetry, the meal, where the words are just the recipe. The
poem is a never-ending process, according to his vision.

This allows him to translate, in fact, and see each different translation
(including the original) as a part of the manifestation of that never-ending
process. I'm not sure what Robert Corbett is really saying (I haven't been
following the thread closely enough, up to this point), but I thought Red
Pine's ideas merited attention at this point.

There are parts of his philosophy I find compelling, and parts I find
dismissible, but I bring it up as an idea to ponder, as we think about the
relationship between utterance and poem.

Lucas





-----Original Message-----
From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On
Behalf Of Robert Corbett
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 8:05 PM
To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Re: An interesting quote on the fundamental nature of poetry

a rather pure instance of phonocentrism, which is a kissing cousin of
logocentrism (child of phallogocentrism.)

if this is correct, there is no such thing as world poetry.  yet translation
is exactly what poetry always does and will always do.

try again, jon.

Robert

Jon Corelis  wrote:
My thanks to Rebecca Seiferle for her response. (The Yeats quote she refers
to actually was posted to another list than poetics. If anyone's interested
in it I'll send it here too.)

Trying to think through the Govinda remarks:

If this view of poetry is correct, then poetry must be defined as the art
whose material is utterance, and utterance must be taken in the strict
sense:
words physically spoken aloud. This in turn implies that if someone writes a
text on the assumption that others are going to read it silently, that text
cannot be considered poetry, just as, if someone writes a musical score, not
as something for musicians to play, but as something for readers of scores
to
examine visually, then that production cannot reasonably be considered
music.
And this implies that most of the poetry being written in English today,
really isn't.

The above view of poetry may seem eccentric and extreme, but through much of
human history it would have been too obvious to need saying. The idea that
what a poem really is, is the text that embodies it, is a modern invention,
which to much of past culture would have seemed as weird as the idea that
what
Beethoven's Fifth Symphony really is, is the score to it. The degeneration
of
poem into text is the great source of the failure of poetry in our time.


=====================================
Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org

www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=====================================


____________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:26:18 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "David A. Kirschenbaum" 
Subject:      ** Advertise in February Boog City**
Mime-version: 1.0
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Boog City's February issue is going to press on Mon. Jan. 31, and our
discount ad rate is here to stay. We are once again offering a 50% discount
on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also
applies on larger ads.)

Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles, your
band's new album, your label's new releases, or the real reason Paige Davis
will be off of Trading Spaces come March.

Ads must be in by Sun., Jan. 30 (and please reserve space ASAP).

(We're also cool with donations, real cool.)

Issue will be distributed on Tues. Feb. 1.

Email editor@boogcity.com
or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information.

thanks,
David

--
David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher
Boog City
330 W.28th St., Suite 6H
NY, NY 10001-4754
For event and publication information:
http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/
T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664)
F: (212) 842-2429
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:27:32 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Loss_Peque=F1o_Glazier?= 
Subject:      Name Poetry Magazine
Comments: cc: CORE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
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Please let your undergraduate students know about the namepoetry
undergraduate poetry/art magazine, accepting submissions until March 1,
2005. namepoetry seeks innovative new work in a variety of styles. A
poetry prize will be awarded. Art may include line art, photography,
film stills, painting, etc. See http://epc.buffalo.edu/mags/name/ for
details and a link for submissions.

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Please let your undergraduate students know about the namepoetry
undergraduate poetry/art magazine, accepting submissions until March 1,
2005. namepoetry seeks innovative new work in a variety of styles. A poetry
prize will be awarded. Art may include line art, photography, film stills,
painting, etc.See http://epc.buffalo.edu/mags/name/ for details and a link
for submissions .




--------------010205010105080601010602--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:40:22 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      i look through you, brilliant movie
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

i look through you, brilliant movie

the clasp of hovering
http://www.asondheim.org/coup.mov
yes, that too, incandescent
the aural writ(h)ing
window shutter camera shudder


_
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:26:24 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mark Weiss 
Subject:      Re: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
In-Reply-To:  <20050125011113.29876.qmail@web50408.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Check out Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker Movement, not to speak of
liberation theology.

Mark


At 08:11 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote:
>hard to believe that Doestoevsky was of the left, given the picture he
>gives in The Possessed, but I don't know enough to say
>otherwise.  HOWEVER, the fact that you do not know of the tradition of the
>religious left in the US does not mean it does not exist.  it does
>indeed:  the organizations leading the call for forgiveness of debt for
>the third world are mainline churches.  please oh please people, do not
>mistake the Southern Baptist Convention and the Christian Coalition for
>the beliefs of all christians, regardless of adjective in this
>country.  as for religious left-wing intelligentsia, look at Cornel West,
>Stanley Hauerwas, and indeed the journal Sojourner.
>
>Robert
>
>Masha Zavialova  wrote:
>Dostoevsky was not a religious conservative, he was a religious left. he
>belonged to the religious left wing intelligentsia. While it is unthinkable
>here in America it was the case in Russia (and it may still be). Organized
>religion is purely political and it can position itself at any point on the
>political spectrum, depending on its doctrines. It so happened in America
>that American Christians support the doctrine of prosperity as the sign of
>divine grace and thus flock together with the rich and powerful. If the
>Christian groups who opposed the rich won historically they would have been
>among the persecuted now, and on the extreme left.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: UB Poetics discussion group
>[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Elizabeth Rich
>Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 2:02 PM
>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
>Subject: Re: Guardian Unlimited: Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
>
>
>Dostoyevsky called himself a "doubter." I don't have the source with me
>today, but when I read his biography a long time ago, a quote from a
>letter that he had written stood out, and I will always remember it. It
>said that he very much wanted to be a Christian and to have faith, but
>he couldn't give himself over to complete, unquestioning faith. His
>desire for faith seems to be what made him critical of the
>intelligensia. He's wonderfully unresolved, so he's always in a position
>of cutting right through ideological blinders.
>
>Thanks for posting the article!
>
>--Elizabeth Rich
>
>--
>Sincerely,
>Elizabeth Rich, Ph.D.
>
>*********************************
>Department of English
>164 Science East
>Saginaw Valley State University
>7400 Bay Road
>University Center, MI 48710-0001
>(989) 964-4317
>*********************************
>
>"No one, not even the least privileged amongst us, is ever entirely
>powerless over the messages that traverse and position him at the post
>of the sender, addressee, or referent."
>
>--Jean-Francois Lyotard from *The Postmodern Condition: A Report on
>Knowledge*
> >>> robertmc00@YAHOO.COM 01/21/05 1:47 PM >>>
>Baldwin's book about the killer of black children in Atlanta is still
>the most important anyone has said about race recently.
>
>by the way, wasn't Doestevsky a nationalist or a slavophile more than a
>religious conservative? i see no way that someone who was dogmatically
>or prescriptively religious could imagine the voices he does. basically
>he makes Tolstoy seem sentimental (even Christian, for chrissakes).
>
>Robert
>
>Stephen Vincent wrote:
>Good piece, Aldon! Made me think also of James Baldwin ominous 1964 New
>Yorker essay call to action, The Fire Next Time. Which is also a quote
>from
>the Bible, right? Indeed - not that Baldwin was trying to burn the
>country
>down (to the contrary), but within the next two years, it was Detroit
>and
>several other cities in various flames. Ironically some good Civil
>Rights
>legislation emerged from it all - whether from non-violent or violent
>actions, or the combination of both.
>Ironically, George & Co.'s use of the 9-11 flame has been aggressively
>oppressive on all fronts, I am afraid. 'Freedom' is just another word
>for
>something to abuse.
>
>Stephen V
>Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com
>
>
>
>
> >> To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited
>site,
> >> go to http://www.guardian.co.uk
> >>
> >> Burning Bush brandishes Dostoevsky
> >> Given the Biblical language in which George Bush and his
>speechwriters are
> >> steeped, it is not surprising that the US president should invoke the
> >> imagery of fire, writes James Meek
> >> James Meek
> >> Friday January 21 2005
> >> The Guardian
> >>
> >>
> >> One of the models of American leadership is that of Moses, leading
>God's
> >> chosen people - then the Jews, now the Americans - towards a promised
> >> land, following a pillar of fire. At one point, according to the
>Bible,
> >> Moses was shown a sign: "Behold, the bush burned with fire, and the
>bush
> >> was not consumed."
> >>
> >> But the key fire passage in the Burning Bush speech - "We have lit a
>fire
> >> as well; a fire in the minds of men" - actually has its origins in a
>novel
> >> by the 19th century Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Devils,
>about
> >> a group of terrorists' ineffectual struggle to bring down the
>tyrannical
> >> Tsarist regime.
> >>
> >> One of the characters declares that it is pointless to try to put out
>a
> >> fire started by terrorists: "The fire is in the minds of men and not
>in
> >> the roofs of houses," he says.
> >>
> >> The novel belongs to a period in Dostoevsky's life which the White
>House
> >> might find attractive, after he had been sent by the Tsar to a kind
>of
> >> Russian Guant*namo and emerged a deeply religious conservative.
> >>
> >> Nonetheless, it is not clear whether Bush is identifying here with
>the
> >> terrorists - or the tyrants.
> >>
> >> Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
> >
> > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> > "and now it's winter in America"
> > --Gil Scott-Heron
> >
> >
> > Aldon Lynn Nielsen
> > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature
> > Department of English
> > The Pennsylvania State University
> > 116 Burrowes
> > University Park, PA 16802-6200
> >
> > (814) 865-0091 [office]
> >
> > (814) 863-7285 [Fax]
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:39:49 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         mIEKAL aND 
Subject:      Carlos Cortez, 1924-2005
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553)
Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
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CARLOS CORTEZ, 81
Social issues inspired artist

By Manya A. Brachear
Tribune staff reporter
Published January 23, 2005

Before Carlos Cortez decided to buy a home, his wife, Mariana, first
had to convince him it would be in his best economic interest. He
dreaded supporting a capitalist system that he believed cheated the
common man out of a living wage.

But buying the home was a decision he would never regret. For the next
30 years, the basement became a studio for Mr. Cortez and his wood- and
linoleum-cut graphics, and the living room became a gathering place for
strangers who quickly became friends.

There, surrounded by the artist's black and white prints that inspired
so many, poets and painters explored how art could incite social
change, shed light on poor and disenfranchised populations, celebrate
indigenous cultures and promote peace--all principles that inspired Mr.
Cortez to create art.

Mr. Cortez, 81, a poet, muralist and graphic artist, whose portrayals
of the challenges facing the common man are on display in neighborhood
galleries and the Smithsonian Institution, died of heart failure
Wednesday, Jan. 19, in his Northwest Side home.

Also emblematic of his principles, Mr. Cortez bequeathed more than 100
wood and linoleum blocks used to produce his prints to Chicago's
Mexican Fine Arts Center Museum, stipulating that if the price of his
art went up, the blocks should be used to produce more and drive it
down.

"As an arts advocate, he argued that art is essential to the human
experience," said the museum's president, Carlos Tortolero.

The son of a German mother and a Mexican father, Mr. Cortez, who often
attached his Nahuatl surname "Koyokuikatl," was born and raised in the
Milwaukee area. Imprisoned for 18 months as a conscientious objector
during World War II, he joined the Industrial Workers of the World in
1947. He wrote a column and drew cartoons for the union paper, The
Industrial Worker, from the early 1950s until recently.

He met his wife in 1957, when she traveled to Milwaukee from Greece to
visit her brother. In 1965, Mr. Cortez moved to Chicago. A year later,
he traveled to his wife's hometown of Patras, Greece, brought her back
and married her. She died in 2001.

In the 1970s, Mr. Cortez joined the Hispanic mural movement, painting
walls of city buildings to communicate political messages about the
ills afflicting society.

Inspired by the Mexican printmaker Jose Guadalupe Posada, whose
woodcuts depicting violence and executions were sold at low cost to the
masses, Mr. Cortez broadened his medium to printmaking. After carving
images into wood and linoleum blocks, he applied ink, then pressed
paper over the ink-covered surface.

A blue-collar worker and pacifist, Mr. Cortez portrayed military
invasions, parents crying over a casket draped with the American flag,
and the wrinkled faces of workers worn down by their plight. His
artwork always remained on the side, while he made a living working in
factories.

"You couldn't separate the manual labor he did from who he was,"
Tortolero said. "Carlos was always about the real value of things. It
was never money. He never supported himself as an artist."

In 1975, Mr. Cortez helped found the first Mexican arts organization in
Illinois, Movimiento Artistico Chicano, or MARCH. He also became a
fervent supporter of and frequent exhibitor at the Mexican Fine Arts
Center Museum. His work also is on display at the New York Museum of
Modern Art and in galleries in such countries as Spain and Sweden.

In addition to his papier-mache sculptures, murals, prints and poems,
he wrote three poetry books, edited a book on Posada and contributed to
a number of others. For almost 20 years, he served as board president
of Charles Kerr Publishers, one of the oldest working-class publishing
houses in the world.

In 1999, he welcomed a group of organizers into his living room to talk
about the upcoming Chicago Labor and Arts Festival and read poetry.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/obituaries/chi-
0501230040jan23,1,2708712.story?ctrack=2&cset=true
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:45:34 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

snow bound
sans sound

the 2 buddhas
play a game of

chinese checkers
who can lose

1st.....




3:00.....ow...drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:50:58 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      quote....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

everynobody can only go
by hisers  own experience..

for me...it's more like
sculpting..or building a snow man...

... melts...finis....

too many barbas-mitzvah boyirls...

crooning...



drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:01:09 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Hugh Steinberg 
Subject:      Re: Carlos Cortez, 1924-2005
In-Reply-To:  <2557DF31-6E8B-11D9-A4A1-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

He was one of the pillars, just a very generous guy.  I met him while I lived in Chicago in the
mid 90's.

Here's one of his poems, from "de KANSAS a CALIFAS & back to CHICAGO"

Centinela


Beneath the high street lamp
In the overnight
Trailer park;
With the encouragement
From the Desert Moon;
The young Saguaro
Maintains his unapproachable
Dignity.

     28 Noviembre, 1982
      Mile 151, Arizona


--- mIEKAL aND  wrote:

> CARLOS CORTEZ, 81
> Social issues inspired artist
>
> By Manya A. Brachear
> Tribune staff reporter
> Published January 23, 2005
>
> Before Carlos Cortez decided to buy a home, his wife, Mariana, first
> had to convince him it would be in his best economic interest. He
> dreaded supporting a capitalist system that he believed cheated the
> common man out of a living wage.
>
> But buying the home was a decision he would never regret. For the next
> 30 years, the basement became a studio for Mr. Cortez and his wood- and
> linoleum-cut graphics, and the living room became a gathering place for
> strangers who quickly became friends.
>
> There, surrounded by the artist's black and white prints that inspired
> so many, poets and painters explored how art could incite social
> change, shed light on poor and disenfranchised populations, celebrate
> indigenous cultures and promote peace--all principles that inspired Mr.
> Cortez to create art.
>
> Mr. Cortez, 81, a poet, muralist and graphic artist, whose portrayals
> of the challenges facing the common man are on display in neighborhood
> galleries and the Smithsonian Institution, died of heart failure
> Wednesday, Jan. 19, in his Northwest Side home.
>
> Also emblematic of his principles, Mr. Cortez bequeathed more than 100
> wood and linoleum blocks used to produce his prints to Chicago's
> Mexican Fine Arts Center Museum, stipulating that if the price of his
> art went up, the blocks should be used to produce more and drive it
> down.
>
> "As an arts advocate, he argued that art is essential to the human
> experience," said the museum's president, Carlos Tortolero.
>
> The son of a German mother and a Mexican father, Mr. Cortez, who often
> attached his Nahuatl surname "Koyokuikatl," was born and raised in the
> Milwaukee area. Imprisoned for 18 months as a conscientious objector
> during World War II, he joined the Industrial Workers of the World in
> 1947. He wrote a column and drew cartoons for the union paper, The
> Industrial Worker, from the early 1950s until recently.
>
> He met his wife in 1957, when she traveled to Milwaukee from Greece to
> visit her brother. In 1965, Mr. Cortez moved to Chicago. A year later,
> he traveled to his wife's hometown of Patras, Greece, brought her back
> and married her. She died in 2001.
>
> In the 1970s, Mr. Cortez joined the Hispanic mural movement, painting
> walls of city buildings to communicate political messages about the
> ills afflicting society.
>
> Inspired by the Mexican printmaker Jose Guadalupe Posada, whose
> woodcuts depicting violence and executions were sold at low cost to the
> masses, Mr. Cortez broadened his medium to printmaking. After carving
> images into wood and linoleum blocks, he applied ink, then pressed
> paper over the ink-covered surface.
>
> A blue-collar worker and pacifist, Mr. Cortez portrayed military
> invasions, parents crying over a casket draped with the American flag,
> and the wrinkled faces of workers worn down by their plight. His
> artwork always remained on the side, while he made a living working in
> factories.
>
> "You couldn't separate the manual labor he did from who he was,"
> Tortolero said. "Carlos was always about the real value of things. It
> was never money. He never supported himself as an artist."
>
> In 1975, Mr. Cortez helped found the first Mexican arts organization in
> Illinois, Movimiento Artistico Chicano, or MARCH. He also became a
> fervent supporter of and frequent exhibitor at the Mexican Fine Arts
> Center Museum. His work also is on display at the New York Museum of
> Modern Art and in galleries in such countries as Spain and Sweden.
>
> In addition to his papier-mache sculptures, murals, prints and poems,
> he wrote three poetry books, edited a book on Posada and contributed to
> a number of others. For almost 20 years, he served as board president
> of Charles Kerr Publishers, one of the oldest working-class publishing
> houses in the world.
>
> In 1999, he welcomed a group of organizers into his living room to talk
> about the upcoming Chicago Labor and Arts Festival and read poetry.
>
> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/obituaries/chi-
> 0501230040jan23,1,2708712.story?ctrack=2&cset=true
>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:49:18 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Halvard Johnson 
Subject:      Freedom & liberty on the march
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

BBC NEWS
Iraqi forces 'committing abuse'
Iraqi security forces systematically abuse prisoners, a leading
US-based human rights group reports.

Unlawful arrests, torture and the long-term isolation of detainees
are "routine", Human Rights Watch says.

Of 90 prisoners interviewed by the group since 2003, 72 said
they had been abused by the new Iraqi authorities.

Another rights group, the American Civil Liberties Union charges
that similar abuses allegedly committed by US soldiers have not
been investigated.

The ACLU said it had obtained documents that told "a damning
story of widespread torture reaching well beyond the walls of Abu
Ghraib," the notorious US-run jail in Iraq.

'Bribes'

The 94-page report by Human Rights Watch detailed a catalogue
of abuses allegedly committed by Iraqi security forces.

The report - The New Iraq? Torture and ill-treatment of detainees in
Iraqi custody - found evidence of widespread human rights violations
against alleged national security suspects and common criminals.

        The Iraqi interim government is not keeping its promises to
honour and respect basic human rights
                        Sarah Leah Whitson
                        Human Rights Watch

Between July and October 2004, HRW's investigations revealed
systematic use of arbitrary arrest, torture of detainees, improper treatment
of child prisoners and denial of access to lawyers.

Iraqi Human Rights Minister Bakhtiar Amin acknowledged that abuses
had occurred and blamed the legacy of Saddam Hussein's regime.

He told the Reuters news agency that the security forces' "shortcomings"
were the fault of "three-and-a-half decades of dictatorship, widespread
torture and human rights violations."

Among the report's findings are:

    * Detainees were routinely beaten with cables and metal rods during
interrogation, given electric shocks and kept blindfolded and handcuffed
for days

    * Detainees were held for long periods in isolation, deprived of food
and water and crammed into small cells with standing room only

    * Iraqi police sought bribes in return for releasing prisoners or allowing
them access to family members or food and water.

Executive director for HRW Sarah Leah Whitson said Iraqi forces and
international advisers were allowing abuses to "go unchecked" in the
name of bringing stability to Iraq.

She said: "The people of Iraq were promised something better than this
after the government of Saddam Hussein fell.

"The Iraqi interim government is not keeping its promises to honour and
respect basic human rights."

Ms Whitson acknowledged Iraqi security forces were targeted by insurgents,
but said this did not justify prisoner abuse.

'Whitewash'

The HRW report does not examine claims of mistreatment of prisoners by
US or coalition forces.

However, the ACLU said late on Monday that US investigations into alleged
abuse committed by American soldiers had been "woefully inadequate" and had
"basically whitewashed the torture and abuse."

Quoting US defence department documents obtained under the Freedom of
Information Act, the ACLU said the Pentagon had failed to conduct full inquiries
into "serious allegations of torture including electric shocks, forced sodomy and
severe physical beatings".

In one case, a 73-year-old Iraqi woman reported that her captors sodomised her
with a stick, but the incident was closed on the basis of a "sanitised copy" of a
preliminary report, the ACLU said.

US soldier Charles Graner was found guilty of abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib
earlier this month, while cases are also being brought against troops from the UK
and Denmark.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/4204913.stm

Published: 2005/01/25 11:47:25 GMT

© BBC MMV
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:07:54 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jerry 
Subject:      Re: Freedom & liberty on the march
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

we've
helped
our others there
remember re
learn
how brutal
we
all can
be
as we be
all that
we can
be

--Gerald Schwartz

> BBC NEWS
> Iraqi forces 'committing abuse'
> Iraqi security forces systematically abuse prisoners, a leading
> US-based human rights group reports.
>
> Unlawful arrests, torture and the long-term isolation of detainees
> are "routine", Human Rights Watch says.
>
> Of 90 prisoners interviewed by the group since 2003, 72 said
> they had been abused by the new Iraqi authorities.
>
> Another rights group, the American Civil Liberties Union charges
> that similar abuses allegedly committed by US soldiers have not
> been investigated.
>
> The ACLU said it had obtained documents that told "a damning
> story of widespread torture reaching well beyond the walls of Abu
> Ghraib," the notorious US-run jail in Iraq.
>
> 'Bribes'
>
> The 94-page report by Human Rights Watch detailed a catalogue
> of abuses allegedly committed by Iraqi security forces.
>
> The report - The New Iraq? Torture and ill-treatment of detainees in
> Iraqi custody - found evidence of widespread human rights violations
> against alleged national security suspects and common criminals.
>
>         The Iraqi interim government is not keeping its promises to
> honour and respect basic human rights
>                         Sarah Leah Whitson
>                         Human Rights Watch
>
> Between July and October 2004, HRW's investigations revealed
> systematic use of arbitrary arrest, torture of detainees, improper
treatment
> of child prisoners and denial of access to lawyers.
>
> Iraqi Human Rights Minister Bakhtiar Amin acknowledged that abuses
> had occurred and blamed the legacy of Saddam Hussein's regime.
>
> He told the Reuters news agency that the security forces' "shortcomings"
> were the fault of "three-and-a-half decades of dictatorship, widespread
> torture and human rights violations."
>
> Among the report's findings are:
>
>     * Detainees were routinely beaten with cables and metal rods during
> interrogation, given electric shocks and kept blindfolded and handcuffed
> for days
>
>     * Detainees were held for long periods in isolation, deprived of food
> and water and crammed into small cells with standing room only
>
>     * Iraqi police sought bribes in return for releasing prisoners or
allowing
> them access to family members or food and water.
>
> Executive director for HRW Sarah Leah Whitson said Iraqi forces and
> international advisers were allowing abuses to "go unchecked" in the
> name of bringing stability to Iraq.
>
> She said: "The people of Iraq were promised something better than this
> after the government of Saddam Hussein fell.
>
> "The Iraqi interim government is not keeping its promises to honour and
> respect basic human rights."
>
> Ms Whitson acknowledged Iraqi security forces were targeted by insurgents,
> but said this did not justify prisoner abuse.
>
> 'Whitewash'
>
> The HRW report does not examine claims of mistreatment of prisoners by
> US or coalition forces.
>
> However, the ACLU said late on Monday that US investigations into alleged
> abuse committed by American soldiers had been "woefully inadequate" and
had
> "basically whitewashed the torture and abuse."
>
> Quoting US defence department documents obtained under the Freedom of
> Information Act, the ACLU said the Pentagon had failed to conduct full
inquiries
> into "serious allegations of torture including electric shocks, forced
sodomy and
> severe physical beatings".
>
> In one case, a 73-year-old Iraqi woman reported that her captors sodomised
her
> with a stick, but the incident was closed on the basis of a "sanitised
copy" of a
> preliminary report, the ACLU said.
>
> US soldier Charles Graner was found guilty of abusing prisoners at Abu
Ghraib
> earlier this month, while cases are also being brought against troops from
the UK
> and Denmark.
>
> Story from BBC NEWS:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/4204913.stm
>
> Published: 2005/01/25 11:47:25 GMT
>
> © BBC MMV
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:18:54 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Catherine Daly 
Subject:      Catherine Daly at Litter (Leafe Press)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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This is all the pieces of my short "Celestial Mechanics" series
together...

http://www.leafepress.com/litter/daly01.html

from the unpublished sequel to DaDaDa, OOD:  Object-Oriented Design.

All best,
Catherine Daly
cadaly@pacbell.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:40:22 +0100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Kevin Magee 
Subject:      Lodz Ghetto
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"the field of the aleatory is immense, but not absolute"
Henri Lefebvre

"We learn that Hercberg [Salomon Hercberg, the commissioner of the
Order Service and commandant of Central Prison] had been living in
clover in the ghetto, that he owned three apartments and had been 'the
lord and master of Marysin as if he were the governor of the most
beautiful section of the ghetto,' that he received special commissions
'in connection with the rounding-up of the ghetto's undesirable
elements, 'and that many times, he had 'personally organized and
directed night raids on apartments, as well as the raids that were
carried out in broad daylight on the streets.'" (Dobroszycki,
xxvi-xxvii).

"Such [other] observations are made in the margin next to his remarks
on the Jewish police in the ghetto and its brutal, Gestapo-like
behavior, where he goes on to define the police as a group, and class
apart, of the Eldest's followers which also served as his bodyguard,
'Schutzgarde fur Chaim,' to use Rosenfeld's own words" [Dr. Oscar
Rosenfeld, 'Private diary, not to be read, a memoir for the future']".
(Dobroszycki, xxix).

"At that time it was the former workers' parties, chiefly the Bund,
the Poale Zion, and the communists that took up the cry of struggle.
In keeping with their traditions and also with a seemingly incomplete
grasp of the radical changes that had resulted from the Nazi
occupation of the country in general and Lodz in particular, those
parties reverted to street demonstrations and strikes as their
principal means of protest. They were, of course, doomed to failure;
to maintain some sort of discipline in the ranks of the demonstrators
exhausted by hunger, for instance, was nearly impossible. Moreover,
the demonstrators began increasingly to be led by elements not
connected with any party, by random individuals, or by people from the
criminal world and so-called strong men. During one such demonstration
in the summer of 1940, brutally suppressed by the Eldest of the Jews'
police, demands were voiced that the ghetto's authorities include
Germans. Its bearings lost, the crowd could not imagine that things
could be any worse. The illusions were dispelled when the German
police entered the ghetto and opened fire on the crowds. That was the
end of open street demonstrations in the ghetto, though labor strikes
would erupt from time to time in various workshops, chiefly as a
protest against management. Yet, Rumkowski [Eldest of the Jews i.e.
Patriarch of the Ghetto] was able to believe that he was in control of
the situation. To be on the safe side, however, he removed the
potential organizers of disturbances, at first by arresting them or
sending them out of the ghetto to do forced labor, and, later on, by
including them on the lists of those to be deported." (Dobroszycki,
xlix-l).

\\

"The Muslims ("The 'Muslim' is the key figure of the Nazi
extermination camp universe [fn 50: "I draw here on Chapter 2 of
Giorgio Agamben's Ce qui reste d'Auschwitz, Paris: Rivages 1999.
Incidentally, the traces of anti-Arab racism in this designation are
more than evident: the designation 'Muslim', of course, emerged
because the prisoners identified the behavior of the 'living dead' as
close to the standard Western image of a 'Muslim', a person who is
totally resigned to his fate, passively enduring all calamities as
grounded in God's will. Today, however, in view of the Israeli-Arab
conflict, this designation regains its actuality: the 'Muslim' is the
extimate kernel, the zero-level, of the 'Jew' himself"]) are the
'zero-level' of humanity: the Heideggerian co-ordinates of the project
(Entwurf) through which the Dasein answers and assumes, in an engaged
way, his being-thrown-in-the-world (Geworfenheit), are suspended here.
The Muslims are a kind of 'living dead' who even cease to react to
basic animal stimuli, who do not defend themselves when attacked, who
gradually even cease to feel thirst and hunger, eating and drinking
more out of blind habit than on account of some elementary animal
need. For this reason, they are the point of the Real without symbolic
Truth--there is no way to 'symbolize' their predicament, to organize
it into a meaningful life-narrative. [...] One is tempted to say that
the Muslim, precisely in so far as he is in a way 'less than animal',
deprived even of animal vitality, is the necessary intermediate step
between animal and man, the 'zero-level' of humanity in the precise
sense of what Hegel called 'the night of the world', the withdrawal
from engaged immersion in one's environment, the pure self-relating
negativity which, as it were, 'wipes the slate' and thus opens up the
space for specifically human symbolic engagement. To put it yet
another way: the Muslim is not simply outside language (as is the case
with the animal), he is the absence of language as such, silence as a
positive fact, as the rock of impossibility, the Void, the background
for speech to emerge against. In this precise sense, one can say that
in order to 'become human', to bridge the gap between animal immersion
in the environment to human activity, we all, at some point, have had
to be Muslims, to pass through the zero-level designated by this
term." (Zizek, 73, 76-78).


--

Lucjan Dobroszycki, ed. The Chronicle of the Lodz Ghetto 1941-1944.
Trans. Richard Lourie, Joachim Neugroschel, et al. New Haven: Yale
University Press, 1984.

Slavoj Zizek, Did Somebody Say Totalitarianism? London: Verso, 2001.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:01:59 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Austinwja@AOL.COM
Subject:      Blackbox overload
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello Everyone,

First, let me thank all of you who submitted to Blackbox.  Within days of my
announcement I received an ocean-full of submissions.  I've chosen ten artists
whose combination achieves a variety of aesthetic approaches--both new
contributors and repeaters.

Amazingly, I must close the submission period mere days after opening it.
Much to my regret, I simply cannot handle more material.

I'll post an announcement when the winter gallery is up for viewing.  Again,
thanks to all.

Best, Bill

WilliamJamesAustin.com
kojapress.com
amazon.com
b&n.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:36:36 -0500
Reply-To:     az421@freenet.carleton.ca
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Rob McLennan 
Subject:      ottawater
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

ottawater: a city of romantics & optimists

Published to help celebrate the 150th anniversary of the City of Ottawa,
Canada's glorious capital city, "ottawater," and its chemical formula/logo
"O2(H2O)," is a brand new poetry annual produced exclusively on-line, in
both readable and printable pdf formats. An anthology focusing on Ottawa
poets and poetics, its first issue appears in January 2005, 150 years
after old Bytown became the City of Ottawa. Long seen as a town made only
of bureaucrats and technocrats, and a more conservative poetics,
"ottawater" simply wants to remind us of what work is happening, and has
been happening for years, despite government types announcing every few
years that the arts in Ottawa is about to begin. We say instead: we have
always been here.

Edited by Ottawa writer rob mclennan, the first issue features work by
various residents current and former, in both readable and printable pdf
formats, including: Stephen Brockwell, George Elliott Clarke, Anita
Dolman, Tamara Fairchild, Laurie Fuhr, Gwendolyn Guth, William Hawkins,
Matthew Holmes, Clare Latremouille, rob mclennan, Max Middle, Peter
Norman, Monty Reid, Chris Turnbull and Ewan Whyte, interviews with poets
John Barton and Max Middle, and reviews of work by Stephen Brockwell,
Peter Norman and Shane Rhodes, as well as artwork by Derrick Lacelle, Don
Monet, Jeremy Reid, Jennifer Kwong, Sarah Dobbin, Juan Carlos Noria and
designer Tanya Sprowl.

The launch party will be happening on Thursday, February 3rd at the
Mercury Lounge, 56 Byword Street, Ottawa, from 8pm to 10pm, lovingly
hosted by rob mclennan, who David Gladstone called "the poet laureate of
Centretown Ottawa" in 1996 in The Centretown Buzz. There will be short
readings by various of the contributors, including Gwendolyn Guth, Max
Middle, Anita Dolman, Chris Turnbull and Peter Norman. After the readings,
stick around and have a drink, as the program to follow is resident dj
Trevor Walker hosting Mui Afro Funke, playing latin and African influenced
musics, jazz funk, and house music later on into the night.

You can find the first issue at www.ottawater.com/


--
poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics
(Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press
fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon)     ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0
www.track0.com/rob_mclennan   *         http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:08:33 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      Kevin on Lodz
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

I agree with Mr. Nudel that McGee is in bad taste and worst. Let us now
charge the Jews with Lodz.

McGee absolutely sickens me. Anyone can selectively quote.

Let the fucking kikes alone and talk of something else please.

- Alan, really fed up. This is a POETICS list not a hammer-the-Jews or
Arabs or any other nationalities list. Isn't it?



nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/
http://www.asondheim.org/
WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/
http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim
Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:00:49 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Aaron Belz 
Subject:      Shakespeare panned?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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              reply-type=original
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.
.
.
I seem to remember that Shakespeare has had a number of vocal detractors
over the years.  Does anyone know where I can get a copy of anti-Shakespeare
writing from onr of his contemporaries or shortly after his lifetime?

His plays rubbed classicists the wrong way, didn't they?

Aaron
.
.
.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:17:53 -0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Robin Hamilton 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned?
Comments: cc: Bob Grumman 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Perhaps the best known (and certainly the earliest) anti-Shakespeare piece
was a remark by Robert Greene in _Greenes Groatsworth of Wit_ (1592) where
we're told of:

" ... an upstart Crow, beautified with our feathers, that with his Tygers
hart wrapt in a Players hyde, supposes he is as well able to bumbast out a
blanke verse as the best of you."

Bob Grumman discusses it here:

            http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/1492/crow.html

Ben Jonson was also a bit sniffy about Shakespeare in both _Timber_ and
_Conversations with Drummond_.

It might be worth looking at the first volume of _Shakespeare: The Critical
Heritage_ which *should* print all the earliest comments on WS.

(Can't guarantee this, as haven't read it.)

Hope this helps.

Robin Hamiton

From: "Aaron Belz" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:00 AM
Subject: Shakespeare panned?

> I seem to remember that Shakespeare has had a number of vocal detractors
> over the years.  Does anyone know where I can get a copy of
anti-Shakespeare
> writing from onr of his contemporaries or shortly after his lifetime?
>
> His plays rubbed classicists the wrong way, didn't they?
>
> Aaron
> .
> .
> .
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:29:55 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Bob Grumman 
Subject:      Re: objective journal rankings
In-Reply-To:  <754JaPBVZ0784S01.1105852596@uwdvg002.cms.usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The VAPD rating system is right up my alley, but one
improvement can be made.  To the list of stasguard
magazines should be appended a list compiled of zines
and internet magazines--with the magazines rated from
minus one to minus 100 or whatever, and poems
published in any of those publications multiplied by
the rating of the publication it's in.

We can't let the people getting poems that are making
significicant use of techniques not in wide use fifty
or more years ago sneak by with mere zeroes because
they have nothing in magazines like the Atlantic
Monthly!

--Bob Grumman, VPD-rating -2,507



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:44:41 -0700
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jonathan Penton 
Subject:      Re: objective journal rankings
In-Reply-To:  <20050126012955.17965.qmail@web51606.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Umm.... can I opt out of being VAPD? I kind of like these lists as far
away as possible from actual sources for new literature, thank you.

--
Jonathan Penton
http://www.unlikelystories.org


Bob Grumman wrote:

>The VAPD rating system is right up my alley, but one
>improvement can be made.  To the list of stasguard
>magazines should be appended a list compiled of zines
>and internet magazines--with the magazines rated from
>minus one to minus 100 or whatever, and poems
>published in any of those publications multiplied by
>the rating of the publication it's in.
>
>We can't let the people getting poems that are making
>significicant use of techniques not in wide use fifty
>or more years ago sneak by with mere zeroes because
>they have nothing in magazines like the Atlantic
>Monthly!
>
>--Bob Grumman, VPD-rating -2,507
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
>http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:51:44 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      Poem:  Incident
Mime-Version: 1.0
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     Incident


It was dawn when they came to kill us.  The bleak sun
of winter was only a whitening of the mist
over the far hills from where they came.
The earliest screams brought others from their houses,
and their cries roused more sleepers out to die.
My mother, who'd gone for water, was one of the first.
Young as I was, I still ran to protect her,
was stabbed in the chest and thigh and fell to earth
as she fell over me:  lying there, I felt her
give three desperate gasps, as if the air
could anchor her to life, then breathe no more.
Some instinct made me lie completely quiet,
and since the murderers turned to deal with those
our fight had drawn outdoors, I kept my life,
seeing through the lashes of one eyelid
how neighbors, cousins, friends all died around me.
It all seemed very slow and ordinary:
the killers took their time and liked their work.
Their victims each met death a different way:
some pouring curses out with their life's blood,
some vainly bartering with promised gold,
some weeping childlike tears of acquiescence,
some pleading youth or age or prime of life
as reasons why their case should be exempted,
some numb with horror, some quite mad and laughing.
Their deaths were individual as their lives,
and as identical as all lives' ends.
The raiders left to search for people hiding,
and I crawled out from under my mother's body
and lowered myself into the largest well,
the only one with hand- and foot-holds in it,
fearing that they'd come back, and I was right.
For centuries I heard the further slaughter,
bleeding into the slimy rock I clung to.
Twice I was grazed by bundles tumbling down
to sound the earth's wet heartbeat far below.
I don't remember coming out, but somehow
I was standing in the sunlight watching people
loading the dead for hauling and looking on me
with amazed kindness.  They pulled up from my well
the bodies of two children, a boy and a girl,
both with slit throats, the bruises still
livid on the girl's small and hairless sex.
There were inquiries held, of course, but no one punished.
The government blamed the rebels, the rebels the army,
and the army denied it.  The rulers had no answers,
the priests had no answers, the poets had no answers.
Only in silent dreams, two naked children,
angelic, unblemished, with grave and luminous eyes,
hold the answers flowering in their hands.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:17:20 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Lodz Ghetto
Mime-Version: 1.0
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This means we should all have also been Jews which I fell is nonsense -
there are no chosen people (everyone keeps claiming that THEY are the ones!!
chosen ..)  - I believe  - that while there are great cultural differences
around the world -we are also - inside ourselves - human (which I think is
the great message of The Merchant of Venice)- this not to argue that we do
not respect cultural and religious differences -now the conjunction of the
Nazis in Lodz  and Nazi Germany with something by Heidegger about Muslims is
confusing - I can see parallels between Israel/and the US and Nazi Germany -
but there is a difference - are differences - the differences are complex -
there are parallels in that some of the Zionists have a repressive policy
against Palestinians - but to be fair or unfair this has happened throughout
history - the people or country A that has been bashed finds another people
or country to bash.

No one yet has quite equaled the awfulness of the Holocaust - there are
lessons to be learnt - in Lodz - with hindsight -- fire needed to be met
with fire - but the Nazis had the upper hand  - a lot of their members were
street thugs and criminals - the communists etc were probably not ready - no
one ever is - these things kind creep up (as in the US now we have
a"creeping" fascism - in some ways it is accelerating) - but the planners
and the ruling class in the US are more sophisticated than the Nazis (you
could say they have a more 'rational' program  -although its hard to see the
logic of a lot going on  - the logic and methods are more or less more
subtle ( or the Imperialists in contrast to the Nazis confuse people about
why they are doing what and don't waste energy setting up hundreds of
extermination camps although there are a number of concentration camps set
up)  than the Nazis  - the Israelis and the US Imperialists share similar
aims -control of the middle east, power, . ..expansion ..oil..drug money -
the need for cheap labour sources - - to head off the other big nations (who
are slowly and ominously gaining on US Imperialism which is in decline)   -
Germany wanted to destroy Russia (so did most of the Western Powers  - they
didn't want communism) - well Russia is its fragmented now, and weak, the US
probably dreams of destroying China as it is strong (and well armed -and a
potential threat) and India if it gets to strong - its all a little more
sophisticated than invading Russia and machine gunning thousands of
"degenerates" but..there are similatiraties. Propaganda is more
sophisticated - anyone watching the TV sees a happy - sophisticated US -
family shows or they see heroic people doing dare devil things or whatever:
everything looks clean and wonderful over there, even the 'violent"
programs" look good -exciting stuff - the "goodies" win mostly... - with
some exceptions the general impression is that white people (and some token
blacks who are educated and wash etc) are good, and wogs etc in robes, are
bad - Jews aren't so bad as they are funny like Seinfeld and complex like
Bronowski and various US movie makers...

In some ways Iraq etc are just the foreplay of what's to come if no one
stops the Imperialists - etc  - but there  is a degree of restraint compared
to the Nazis - but there  are indeed parallels- it has been said that Israel
is fascist state ( its really just another "branch" of the US - may as well
be a State of the US )- it is fascistic but  it isn't quite like Nazi
Germany - things are done more subtly and within Israel/USA there is  a
Western democratic parliament (dubious as I am of such so-called democratic
set ups) but  - sure the Palestinians have been hammered - the Jews were
hammered - in there interests of US Imperialist expansion someone will
always get hammered - Muslims, Jews., Hindus, blacks in Africa or the US or
wherever - the American Indians Maori etc etc- anyone - will be bought off
and put to work to slaughter -whoever it doesn't matter - so as to keep the
state of perpetual war going - divide et imperum - divide and rule is the
method as the Romans knew - but Heidegger  - to return to him - was a Nazi
!! I think some of his ideas are interesting and his methodology but all
this stuff about Dasein or Muslims being Jews etc etc is - well its ok as a
kind of mystical poetry but I dont think it helps things...Heidegger
probably couldn't even boil an egg for himself...

Some thoughts to fire into the fire

Richard Taylor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Magee" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:40 AM
Subject: Lodz Ghetto


> "the field of the aleatory is immense, but not absolute"
> Henri Lefebvre
>
> "We learn that Hercberg [Salomon Hercberg, the commissioner of the
> Order Service and commandant of Central Prison] had been living in
> clover in the ghetto, that he owned three apartments and had been 'the
> lord and master of Marysin as if he were the governor of the most
> beautiful section of the ghetto,' that he received special commissions
> 'in connection with the rounding-up of the ghetto's undesirable
> elements, 'and that many times, he had 'personally organized and
> directed night raids on apartments, as well as the raids that were
> carried out in broad daylight on the streets.'" (Dobroszycki,
> xxvi-xxvii).
>
> "Such [other] observations are made in the margin next to his remarks
> on the Jewish police in the ghetto and its brutal, Gestapo-like
> behavior, where he goes on to define the police as a group, and class
> apart, of the Eldest's followers which also served as his bodyguard,
> 'Schutzgarde fur Chaim,' to use Rosenfeld's own words" [Dr. Oscar
> Rosenfeld, 'Private diary, not to be read, a memoir for the future']".
> (Dobroszycki, xxix).
>
> "At that time it was the former workers' parties, chiefly the Bund,
> the Poale Zion, and the communists that took up the cry of struggle.
> In keeping with their traditions and also with a seemingly incomplete
> grasp of the radical changes that had resulted from the Nazi
> occupation of the country in general and Lodz in particular, those
> parties reverted to street demonstrations and strikes as their
> principal means of protest. They were, of course, doomed to failure;
> to maintain some sort of discipline in the ranks of the demonstrators
> exhausted by hunger, for instance, was nearly impossible. Moreover,
> the demonstrators began increasingly to be led by elements not
> connected with any party, by random individuals, or by people from the
> criminal world and so-called strong men. During one such demonstration
> in the summer of 1940, brutally suppressed by the Eldest of the Jews'
> police, demands were voiced that the ghetto's authorities include
> Germans. Its bearings lost, the crowd could not imagine that things
> could be any worse. The illusions were dispelled when the German
> police entered the ghetto and opened fire on the crowds. That was the
> end of open street demonstrations in the ghetto, though labor strikes
> would erupt from time to time in various workshops, chiefly as a
> protest against management. Yet, Rumkowski [Eldest of the Jews i.e.
> Patriarch of the Ghetto] was able to believe that he was in control of
> the situation. To be on the safe side, however, he removed the
> potential organizers of disturbances, at first by arresting them or
> sending them out of the ghetto to do forced labor, and, later on, by
> including them on the lists of those to be deported." (Dobroszycki,
> xlix-l).
>
> \\
>
> "The Muslims ("The 'Muslim' is the key figure of the Nazi
> extermination camp universe [fn 50: "I draw here on Chapter 2 of
> Giorgio Agamben's Ce qui reste d'Auschwitz, Paris: Rivages 1999.
> Incidentally, the traces of anti-Arab racism in this designation are
> more than evident: the designation 'Muslim', of course, emerged
> because the prisoners identified the behavior of the 'living dead' as
> close to the standard Western image of a 'Muslim', a person who is
> totally resigned to his fate, passively enduring all calamities as
> grounded in God's will. Today, however, in view of the Israeli-Arab
> conflict, this designation regains its actuality: the 'Muslim' is the
> extimate kernel, the zero-level, of the 'Jew' himself"]) are the
> 'zero-level' of humanity: the Heideggerian co-ordinates of the project
> (Entwurf) through which the Dasein answers and assumes, in an engaged
> way, his being-thrown-in-the-world (Geworfenheit), are suspended here.
> The Muslims are a kind of 'living dead' who even cease to react to
> basic animal stimuli, who do not defend themselves when attacked, who
> gradually even cease to feel thirst and hunger, eating and drinking
> more out of blind habit than on account of some elementary animal
> need. For this reason, they are the point of the Real without symbolic
> Truth--there is no way to 'symbolize' their predicament, to organize
> it into a meaningful life-narrative. [...] One is tempted to say that
> the Muslim, precisely in so far as he is in a way 'less than animal',
> deprived even of animal vitality, is the necessary intermediate step
> between animal and man, the 'zero-level' of humanity in the precise
> sense of what Hegel called 'the night of the world', the withdrawal
> from engaged immersion in one's environment, the pure self-relating
> negativity which, as it were, 'wipes the slate' and thus opens up the
> space for specifically human symbolic engagement. To put it yet
> another way: the Muslim is not simply outside language (as is the case
> with the animal), he is the absence of language as such, silence as a
> positive fact, as the rock of impossibility, the Void, the background
> for speech to emerge against. In this precise sense, one can say that
> in order to 'become human', to bridge the gap between animal immersion
> in the environment to human activity, we all, at some point, have had
> to be Muslims, to pass through the zero-level designated by this
> term." (Zizek, 73, 76-78).
>
>
> --
>
> Lucjan Dobroszycki, ed. The Chronicle of the Lodz Ghetto 1941-1944.
> Trans. Richard Lourie, Joachim Neugroschel, et al. New Haven: Yale
> University Press, 1984.
>
> Slavoj Zizek, Did Somebody Say Totalitarianism? London: Verso, 2001.
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>
>



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:19:57 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Bob Grumman 
Subject:      Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I think Houlihan is a philistine, but can any of those
critical of her tell me why she's wrong to not think
much of the Andrews text (which is prose, as far as
I'm concerned, although I don't consider that a
defect)?  I'm neutral on it, not having had time to
sit down with it for a reasonable length of time.  I
have read stuff of his I liked, though--and I have
read others' work that seemed to use similar tactics
and liked it.  In the not-yet-out final issue of Lost
& Found Times, in fact, I do a close reading of a
similarly initially off-putting poem by John M.
Bennett.  My point?  That there are people as
foolishly automatically yea-sayers as Houlihan is
foolishly automatically a nay-sayer.

I'm also interested in what specifically is in this
poem that makes people like it.  I'm still very much
at sea about what I more and more consider
non-representational poetry.

--Bob G.




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:24:42 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Aaron Belz 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=response
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Robin-

This is exactly what I needed. Thank you.

You've answered more than one of my questions, and I appreciate that.

Aaron
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:41:09 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "J. Scappettone" 
Subject:      Lit programs at New Langton Arts, SF, 2/3 & 2/17
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hello all:  check these out.  Please forgive cross-posting.  js

Two upcoming programs in New Langton Arts' "Performance Writing" series,
curated by Jocelyn Saidenberg ... the series brings multi-disciplinary
literary artists to Langton to present works that explore language in the
context of live performance.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PERFORMANCE WRITING #1
David Larsen and Michelle Tea

Thursday February 3, 8 pm
Tickets $6/$4 members, students, seniors


New Langton Arts presents literary artists David Larsen and
Michelle Tea reading from new and recent works in the new Performance
Writing series. Larsen reads from his forthcoming poetry collection, The
Thorn. Michelle Tea reads excerpts from an unpublished narrative that delve=
s
into the chaotic complexity of a dysfunctional family. For Langton=B9s new
Performance Writing series, literary artists present works that explore
language while directly engaging with the audience in the act of live
performance. Working in sound, video, spoken word, installation, mixed-medi=
a
and performance, these artists defy the conventions of the reading as the
viewer and listener becomes accomplice and collaborator.

David Larsen presents his poetry with animation and fervor, transcending th=
e
confines of the conventional reading by inviting the audience into his
fictional worlds. His performances have included the use of masks and film
projections.  At Langton he reads in his signature booming baritone from a
soon-to-be-released collection of poetry, The Thorn.

Bay Area author and spoken word artist Michelle Tea writes
semi-autobiographical narratives about dysfunctional families, queer love,
work, rock and death. She reads from an unpublished work-in-progress, which
she describes as a =B3fictional tale of a surly teenager who shares a home in
Saugus, Massachusetts with her hypochondriac mother, her mother=B9s mulleted
boyfriend, and her sister, a recent high school graduate with serious
reality TV-show aspirations.=B2
=20

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

PERFORMANCE WRITING #2
Caroline Bergvall and Brendan Fowler/BARR

Thursday February 17, 8 pm
Tickets $6/$4 members, students, seniors


New Langton Arts presents the second program in the new
Performance Writing series, featuring cross-disciplinary =B3readings=B2 by
literary artists Caroline Bergvall and Brendan Fowler.  Poet and
multi-disciplinary artist Caroline Bergvall works in sound, video and
site-specific installation as part of her wide-ranging, often multi-lingual
text-based performances.  Brendan Fowler combines rock musicianship, poetry=
,
and spoken word in his irreverent, political performances, interlacing
inspirational space with studied observations. The Performance Writing
series, curated by Jocelyn Saidenberg, brings multi-disciplinary literary
artists to Langton to present works that explore language in the context of
live performance, defying the conventions of the reading as the viewer and
listener becomes accomplice and collaborator.

Caroline Bergvall=B9s Langton program includes the works GONG, DOG (homage
Kathy Acker), SCRATCH (after Brion Gysin), 8 FIGS and &, a collage of piece=
s
incorporating video installation, sound, visuals, and live reading.  Brenda=
n
Fowler performs as the acronym BARR (=B3B is for political; A is for drums; R
is for music; and R is for right now!=B2), presenting a program of all-new
work (forthcoming on Kill Rock Stars, 2005) incorporating pre-recorded indi=
e
rock-inflected original music and live spoken text.  Fowler also performs
selections from his most recent recording, =B3What Would the Second BARR=B2
(2004, DoggPony Records).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

New Langton Arts
1246 Folsom Street, SF
415 626 5416
www.newlangtonarts.org
Info:  lisa@newlangtonarts.org


_________
Lisa Mezzacappa
Communications Director


New Langton Arts=20
1246 Folsom Street
San Francisco, CA 94103
tel. 415 626 5416
fax 415 255 1453

lisa@newlangtonarts.org
http://www.newlangtonarts.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:55:57 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Nate Dorward 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The 17th-century dramatist/critic Thomas Rymer's writings on Shakespeare =
are well-known instances of incredibly hostile criticism.  The most =
famous passage (which I've pinched from the internet):
  Whatever rubs or difficulty may stick on the bark, the moral use of =
this fable is very instructive. First, this may be a caution to all =
maidens of quality, how, without their parents' consent, they run away =
with blackamoors. Secondly, this may be a warning to all good wives, =
that they look well to their linen. Thirdly this may be a lesson to =
husbands, that before their jealousy be tragical, the proofs may be =
mathematical. . . . Whence comes it then, that this is the top scene, =
the scene that raises "Othello" above all other tragedies at our =
theatres? It is purely from the action, from the mops and the mows, the =
grimace, the grins, and gesticulation. Such scenes as this have made all =
the world run after Harlequin, and Scaramoucio. The several degrees of =
action were amongst the ancients distinguished by the cothurnus, the =
soccus, and the planipes. Had this scene been represented at Old Rome, =
Othello and Iago must have quitted their buskins, they must have played =
barefoot: for the spectators would not have been content without seeing =
their podometry; and the jealousy work out at the very toes of them. . . =
. There is in this play some burlesk, some humour, and ramble of comical =
wit, some show, and some mimicry to divert the spectators; but the =
tragical part is clearly none other than a bloody farce, without salt or =
savour. -- RYMER, THOMAS, 1693, A Short View of the Tragedy of the Last =
Age.=20
It was Rymer whose views were critiqued by contemporaries like Dryden. =
(It didn't help that Rymer's own efforts as a playwright were so =
ludicrous.)

all best --N

Nate Dorward
109 Hounslow Ave, Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada
ndorward@ndorward.com   //   web: www.ndorward.com


NEW PUBLICATIONS:

THE GIG #17: poetry by derek beaulieu, William Fuller, Steve McCaffery, =
Karen Mac Cormack, Shelby Matthews, Tom Orange, Susan M Schultz, Gavin =
Selerie, Robert Sheppard & Christine Stewart; a talk by Keston =
Sutherland on John Wilkinson; reviews & more.

Allen Fisher, ENTANGLEMENT: a new 288pp collection

THE FLY ON THE PAGE: poetics documents by Trevor Joyce and cris cheek; =
an essay by Harry Gilonis on Maurice Scully; & an interview with Pete =
Smith with a sampler of his poetry.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:06:55 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     RFC822 error:  Incorrect or incomplete address field found and
              ignored.
From:         Ishaq 
Organization: selah7
Subject:      Message To My People:  Mustafa Ibn Talib
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=windows-1252
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Bismillah ir-rahman ir-rahim

Asalaam alaikum,

Some people are afraid to speak out, they are afraid someone might hear. =
Dr. Mustafa ibn Talib has been unjustly put among the people of the hellf=
ire. He is innocent and honest. He waged Jihad against the oppressor. Now=
 he=92s locked up in prison, to burn like a thief. Allah tests those Hu l=
oves, and delivers to them special keys. The key of the believer is freed=
om and ease. Yes, Mustafa is in prison. Mustafa is of God=92s holy soldie=
rs. He is being tested the hardest, oppression is worse than death, Allah=
 loves those Hu tests. From our brother Mustafa, comes a beacon of truth.=
 The pure message is spoken. Read through the brother=92s articles, there=
 are many messages hidden in them. The word manifests in many places, in =
the places of slavery. Allah loves the oppressed and hates the oppressor.=


May Allah continue to guide the oppressed in the lands, giving them freed=
om and bliss!


For more articles, knowledge and information
http://www.al-mubin.org/mlancaster.htm

wa salam


Message To My People
By Mustafa Ibn Talib


As-Salamu-Alaykum and all power to the people, Black brothers, Black sist=
ers, and my people worldwide, regardless of race. I want you to know that=
 I love you and I hope that somewhere in your heart you have love for me.=
 My name is Mustafa Ibn Talib (slave name Andre Lancaster) and I'm a revo=
lutionary. A Black revolutionary. By that I mean that I have declared war=
 on all forces that have raped our women, castrated our men, and kept our=
 toddlers starving. I have declared war on the rich who get richer off ou=
r poverty, the trickitians who lie to us with smiling faces, and all the =
mindless, heartless robots who protect them and their bloody property. I =
am a victim of all the hatred, lies, racism and slander that America is r=
esponsible of. Like all other freedom fighters, America has lynched me. I=
 am a Black revolutionary, and by definition, that makes me a member of t=
he Black Liberation Army. The system has used their image making tools to=
 paint freedom fighters as vicious, brutal, heartless criminals. They hav=
e painted us as characters like John Gotti and Nicki Barnes. It should be=
 clear to all people who can see, think, hear or feel for themselves that=
 we are the victims. You must know by now who the real criminals are. Cli=
nton and his crime partners have murdered millions of Third World brother=
s and sisters in Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo, Sudan, Ethiopia, Algeria, Palestin=
e, Lebanon and East Africa. As it was proven by Whitewater and the Iran C=
ontra Affair, the top law enforcement officials in this country are a lyi=
ng bunch of criminals.


They call us murderers, but we did not slaughter thousands and thousands =
of unarmed Black men, women, and children during the 60's, 70's, 80's and=
 90's. They call us murderers, but we were not responsible for the murder=
s of thousands of inmates across Amerika's prisons, we did not wound stud=
ents from Rutgers University either. They killed Martin Luther King Jr. ,=
 Fred Hampton, Malcolm X, Emmett Till, Medger Evers, George Lester Jackso=
n, Nat Turner, James Chaney, Lil Bobby Hutton, Mark Clark, and countless =
others. We do not control this system of racism and oppression that syste=
matically murders Black and Third World people. They call us bandits, yet=
 every time most Black people pick up our paychecks we are being robbed. =
Everytime we walk into a store in our neighborhood we are being held up. =
And every time we pay our rent the landlord sticks a gun into our ribs. T=
hey call us theives, but we did not rob and murder millions of Indians by=
 ripping off their homeland, then call ourselves pioneers. They call us b=
andits, but it is not we who are robbing Africa, Asia, Arabia, and Latin =
America of their natural resources and freedom while the people who live =
there are sick and starving. The dictators of this country and their flun=
kies have committed some of the most brutal crimes in history. They are m=
aniacs and are not fit to judge any Black and third world people on trial=
 in America. People should, and inevitably must determine our destinies. =
They call us thieves. But it was them who stole millions of Black people =
from the continent of Africa. We were robbed of our language, culture, re=
ligion, of our human dignity, of our labor, lives and liberty. They have =
stolen billions of dollars through tax evasion, illegal price fixing, emb=
ezzlement, consumer fraud, bribes, kickbacks, and swindles. Every revolut=
ion in history has been accomplished by actions, although words are neces=
sary. We must create a defense that defends us against our enemies. Peopl=
e, lets learn from our mistakes. I want to apologise to you for involving=
 myself in the group, dealing with micro power radio. I should have known=
 better, when there are those whose politics and ideologies are different=
, there is bound to be political rebellion. Agents of suppression have tr=
ied and have succeeded for now in their plot. I admit my mistake. Revolut=
ionaries must never be in too much of a hurry or make unthinkable decisio=
ns. He who runs when the sun is sleeping will stumble for sure. Everytime=
 a freedom fighter is murdered or captured, the system claims victory and=
 vows the liberation army is squashed. Revolutionaries are being manufact=
ured in prisons like San Quentin, Sing Sing and McDonald. All people from=
 different walks of life have joined the ranks of the freedom struggle.


It is my duty to fight for freedom
It is our duty to win
We must love each other and support each other
We have nothing to lose but these chains
In the spirit of revolutionaries of the past, I love you Mamma - Assata S=
haku


http://www.ccadp.org/inmatewritings.htm
___\
Stay Strong\
\
 "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \
--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\
\
"This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\
of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"=
\
--HellRazah\
\
"It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\
--Mutabartuka\
\
"As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \
our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \
actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\
 - Frantz Fanon\
\
"Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\
-Imam Ja'far Sadiq\
\
http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\
\
http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \
\
http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=3Dbraithwaite&orderBy=3Ddate\
\
http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\
\
}
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:35:51 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mark Weiss 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned?
In-Reply-To:  <006201c5033c$7af0f520$e49c9951@Robin>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Wait a mo. It's been probably 40 years since I read Timber, but I remember
Jonson's remarks as mostly complimentary, tho talking about his friend as
human rather than god. It was I think the first serious reading of
Shakespeare, and he didn't like everything.

Mark

At 07:17 PM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
>Perhaps the best known (and certainly the earliest) anti-Shakespeare piece
>was a remark by Robert Greene in _Greenes Groatsworth of Wit_ (1592) where
>we're told of:
>
>" ... an upstart Crow, beautified with our feathers, that with his Tygers
>hart wrapt in a Players hyde, supposes he is as well able to bumbast out a
>blanke verse as the best of you."
>
>Bob Grumman discusses it here:
>
>             http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/1492/crow.html
>
>Ben Jonson was also a bit sniffy about Shakespeare in both _Timber_ and
>_Conversations with Drummond_.
>
>It might be worth looking at the first volume of _Shakespeare: The Critical
>Heritage_ which *should* print all the earliest comments on WS.
>
>(Can't guarantee this, as haven't read it.)
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Robin Hamiton
>
>From: "Aaron Belz" 
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:00 AM
>Subject: Shakespeare panned?
>
> > I seem to remember that Shakespeare has had a number of vocal detractors
> > over the years.  Does anyone know where I can get a copy of
>anti-Shakespeare
> > writing from onr of his contemporaries or shortly after his lifetime?
> >
> > His plays rubbed classicists the wrong way, didn't they?
> >
> > Aaron
> > .
> > .
> > .
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:41:19 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mark Weiss 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned?
In-Reply-To:  <006201c5033c$7af0f520$e49c9951@Robin>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

And of course there was the rewriting of Shakespeare to make him conform to
literary norms.

My favorite Shakespeare rewrite is more in the order of feeling permitted
to use him as a source to build on. I'm not talking about Stoppard, who's
merely clever, but of Dryden and Davenant (the latter, then poet laureate,
claiming to be Shakespeare's illegitimate son--despite the blight on his
other's reputation he thought it conferred something on him), who did a
hilarious version of The Tempest as french farce, complete with female
survivors and a female Caliban and a male Miranda. Apparently they loved
the play but didn't think it sacred ground. I'd love to see it performed,
or even filmed--would give Prospero's Books a run for its money.

Mark


At 07:17 PM 1/25/2005, you wrote:
>Perhaps the best known (and certainly the earliest) anti-Shakespeare piece
>was a remark by Robert Greene in _Greenes Groatsworth of Wit_ (1592) where
>we're told of:
>
>" ... an upstart Crow, beautified with our feathers, that with his Tygers
>hart wrapt in a Players hyde, supposes he is as well able to bumbast out a
>blanke verse as the best of you."
>
>Bob Grumman discusses it here:
>
>             http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/1492/crow.html
>
>Ben Jonson was also a bit sniffy about Shakespeare in both _Timber_ and
>_Conversations with Drummond_.
>
>It might be worth looking at the first volume of _Shakespeare: The Critical
>Heritage_ which *should* print all the earliest comments on WS.
>
>(Can't guarantee this, as haven't read it.)
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Robin Hamiton
>
>From: "Aaron Belz" 
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:00 AM
>Subject: Shakespeare panned?
>
> > I seem to remember that Shakespeare has had a number of vocal detractors
> > over the years.  Does anyone know where I can get a copy of
>anti-Shakespeare
> > writing from onr of his contemporaries or shortly after his lifetime?
> >
> > His plays rubbed classicists the wrong way, didn't they?
> >
> > Aaron
> > .
> > .
> > .
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:47:07 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: Kevin on Lodz
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

now haven't i been saying that for months?

inert
private
inate
in mate
primate
the open can  dle
arribe
at last to drink is
pen   man   ship
penniless
invert
irate

in trust we art
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 01:39:50 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Murat Nemet-Nejat 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 01/25/05 7:00:59 PM, aaron@BELZ.NET writes:


> .
> .
> .
> I seem to remember that Shakespeare has had a number of vocal detractors
> over the years.=A0 Does anyone know where I can get a copy of anti-Shakesp=
eare
> writing from onr of his contemporaries or shortly after his lifetime?
>=20
> His plays rubbed classicists the wrong way, didn't they?
>=20
> Aaron
> .
> .
> .
>=20

The great anti-Shakespeare writer I remember is Bernard Shaw, not quite=20
Shakespeare's time.
Murat
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 01:47:23 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Fw: FREESTYLE JAZZ - THE SUNDAY SERIES @ CBGB'S WINTER SCHEDULE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

for music lovers


FREESTYLE EVENTS: AVANT JAZZ & OTHER MUSICS
CBGB’S LOUNGE • 313 BOWERY • 212-677-0455

JANUARY 30
7pm - Jon Lunbom & Big Five Chord: Jon Irabagon, Bryan Murray, Moppa
Elliot, Andrew Bain
8pm - Ralph Alessi, Tim Berne, Mark Helias, Shane Endsley, Will Jennings
9pm - Steve Lehman Quintet w/Drew Gress, Tyshawn Sorey, Jonathon
Finlayson, Chris Dingham
(2 SETS)

FEB 6
7pm - Kris Davis, Jeff Davis, Reuben Radding, Jon Irabogon
8pm - Jackson Moore, Nate Wooley, Shelley Burgon,
Chris Dingman, Eivind Opsvik, Mike Pride
9pm - Louie Belogenis, Hill Greene, Roy Campbell, Michael Wimberly

FEB 13
7pm - Ayelet Rose Gottlieb
8pm - Morcilla: Matt Lavelle, Francois Grillot, Andre Martinez, Chris
Forbes
9pm - Truth to Power: Juan Quinonez, Warren Smith, RaDu ben Judah, Bob
LePre, Jo Jo Smith

FEB 20
7pm - Joe Fiedler Group
8pm - Sunny Jain Collective
9pm - Fay Victor, Joel Newton, Danny Zanker, Eric Halvorson

FEB 27
7pm - Daniel Levin, Nate Wooley, Joe Morris, Matt moran
8pm - Dom Minasi Trio
9pm - Rob Brown, Steve Swell, Joe Morris, Luther Gray
10pm - Didrik Ingvaldsen, Steve Swell, Bob Hovey, Joe Exley

MARCH 6
7pm - Noistet
8pm - Hayes Greenfield, Reuben Radding, Dee Pop
9pm - MP3: Mike Pride, Mary Halvorsen, Ken Fliano

MARCH 13
7pm - Jason Kao Hwang, Taylor Ho Bynum, Andrew Drury, Ken Filiano
8pm - Daniel Carter, Dee Pop, Joe Morris
9pm - Birdbrain

MARCH 20
7pm - Joe Fonda, Herb Robertson, Mike Stevens, Harvey Sorgen
8pm - Earth People
9pm - Billy Mintz Two Bass Band

MARCH 27
7pm - Reuben Radding, Stephen Gauci, Reut Regev, Todd Capp
8pm - Taylor Ho Bynum, Kwaku Kwaakye Obeng,
Joe Morris
9pm - Imaginary Folk: Jessica Pavone, Amie Weiss, Brandon Seabrook, Peter
Evans

APRIL 3
7pm - Reuben Radding, Sayuri Goto, Federico Ughi, Daniel Carter
8pm - Reuben Radding, Jack Wright, Anthony Coleman
9pm - Henry Warner, Billy Bang, William Parker, Rashid Bakr
10pm - Steve Backowski & Ravi Padmanabha

APRIL 10
7pm - Clay Jenkins
8pm - Maryanne Deprophetis, Masa Kamaguchi, Ron Horton, Tom Beckham
9pm - Eric Gale

APRIL 17
7pm - Blarvuster: Matt Welch, Jackson Moore, Karen waltuch, Ed Kasparek,
Mike Pride
8pm - Ehran Elisha Ensemble
9pm - Michael Evans, Peter Zummo, Evan Gallagher, Michael Attias, Adam
Lane, Jeff Hudgins

APRIL 24
7pm - Hayes Greenfield, Adam Roberts, Sunny Jain
8pm - Jim Finn, Warren Smith
9pm - Sonic Openings Under Pressure: Patrick Brennan, Hill Greene, David
Pleasant

MAY 1
Mario Pavone, Angie Sanchez, Tony Malaby, Kevin Norton
MAY 8
Hanuman Ensemble: Andy Haas, Don Fiorino, David Gould, Mia Theodoratus,
Dee Pop, Matt Heyner

MAY 29
Bruce Eisenbeil & Katsu Itakura

All SHOWS $10 for entire evening

Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th US Congress this letter
Cannot be considered Spam as long as the sender includes contact
information & a method of "removal".
If at any time you no longer wish to receive e-mail from us, just reply
to this e-mail with the word "Remove" in the Subject field. Also please
let me know if you get duplicate emails from me. thanks . dp
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:00:43 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Nico Vassilakis 
Subject:      SUBTEXT READING - Alicia Cohen and Seattle School
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with readings
by
Alicia Cohen and Seattle School at Richard Hugo House on Wednesday, February
2,
2005.  Donations for admission will be taken at the door on the evening of
the
performance.  The reading starts at 7:30pm.

Alicia Cohen lives in Portland, Oregon, where, in 2000, she helped establish
the
art space collective Pacific Switchboard.  She has published a book of
poems,
_bEAR_, with Handwritten Press and last year wrote, directed, and produced a
multimedia opera and gallery installation titled "Northwest Inhabitation
Log."
Her work has recently appeared in Ecopoetics, How2, Bird Dog, and Traverse.
She
earned her doctorate at SUNY Buffalo, writing a dissertation about vision
and
epistemology in the work of Jack Spicer, Emily Dickinson, Leslie Scalapino,
and
Robert Duncan.  She is the poetry editor for the Organ review of Arts.

Seattle School was established in 2002 as a performance group interested in
exploring sound and music, primarily in terms of spatial relations, memory,
deep-time/wide-incidence, calculus, communication/notation, failure,
physicality, and inquiries into the definitions of tone, language, and
audience.
Influences include the Futurists, Dada, Earle Brown, Fluxus, Aktionists,
Yoko
Ono, Irritart, John Cage, Abbie Hoffman, Buster Keaton, Harry Partch, Alvin
Lucier, Andy Kaufman, video game audio implementation, and No Wave.

Mike Min was honorably discharged from the US Army.  Between 1998 and 2000,
he
released three independent CD's: Popollution, At Chateau Dunbar, and The
Aberdeen Transplant (2000).  He has scored for the films True and Black
Sheep of
Chinatown, and, for a brief period until its demise, IgooTV employed Min as
its
resident composer.  He is a member of the Seattle Composers Alliance and
serves
as the Vice President of Sound Currents.

Korby Sears attended the University of North Texas as a composition major,
with
an instrumental concentration in organ performance.  He has contributed
music
and sound design to projects in diverse media, including a number of films
and
video games.  As a performer, Korby has been principal contrabassist for the
Sammamish Symphony, a pit orchestra member of the Peccadillo Players, and a
freelance jazz pianist, accordionist, and contrabassist with various jazz
ensembles. He has written for The Stranger, Seattle Weekly and P-Form
Magazine.
He curates the Seattle Composers Alliance Score Salon series, a monthly
orchestral score study group.

The Subtext 2005 schedule is:

March 2, 2005 - Kerri Sonnenberg (Chicago) and Drew Kunz
April 6, 2005 - Lance Olsen & Andi Olsen & Vanessa DeWolf

For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~subtext
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 02:48:15 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      Lodz Ghetto....
Mime-Version: 1.0
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it begs the question
(am i using that right)

to blame the jews
for anti-semitism

& to explain the
gobledegook of said

by quoting the
gobledegook of zizek

is ring a round the rosey
suaver suaver

herr professor....
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:58:12 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned?
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ben jonson

from the way read him -  gave reasonable due to Shakespeare..perhaps the
tragedy is no one one realised how great W S was in his own time - did he
realise himself ?? did he care? (Pessoa writes about this somewhere) - it is
hard to see these things - and we are rightly critical (or maybe right to be
discerning) - it would be harder for Shakespear's contemporaries than Dr
Johnson say - to take a good look at Shakespear - Hazlitt also writes on
Shakespeare - but I dont think that Robert Greene is realy criticising
Shakespeare the poet/playwrite - he is just seeing a rival and is jealous...

I once saw a production of Hamlet as teenager - I think it was very good
English comany touring NZ - but at one point - maybe the Yorick
scene -someone laughed - and from then on, at every critical or dramatic
moment there was great laughter from the audience !! I also joined in as -
indeed - seen in certain ways - anything can be funny...the audience kind of
got the giggles (it was not malicious, and the players didn't miss a beat,
and completed the play with great aplomb) - the other thing is  that Hamlet
is based on the revenge style/tradition (so the whole theme was almost
clichaic possibly even when Shakespear wrote the play  - or at least it had
a form well tried) of plays of  which genre it is ( cf. The Spanish Tragedy
and The Revenger's Tragedy)  I love the Revenger's Tragedy!) - I love
Shakespear -but also Ben Jonson's work - I wish more of his plays had been
put on video etc or performed more I know there is are a few on film but I
would like to see  Bartholomew's Fair as film - either as a the play or
based on....

I cant read Greek but - does anyone think that any of say
Sophocles,Aeschylus, Euripidies, Aristophenies etc are in the same league as
Shakespeare?

I especially liked Sophocles's "Oedipus Rex" etc  (in translation) (have
only just learnt the Greek alphabet)

I know someone is going to talk about the problem of "The Canon" and I
gree  - it is problematic - hence I suspect Aaron  is planning some satire
!!  But interesting - if we can get some basic parameters to compare these
various writers "for the sake of .. (enlightenment?)"

Richard Taylor


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Hamilton" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Shakespeare panned?


> Perhaps the best known (and certainly the earliest) anti-Shakespeare piece
> was a remark by Robert Greene in _Greenes Groatsworth of Wit_ (1592) where
> we're told of:
>
> " ... an upstart Crow, beautified with our feathers, that with his Tygers
> hart wrapt in a Players hyde, supposes he is as well able to bumbast out a
> blanke verse as the best of you."
>
> Bob Grumman discusses it here:
>
>            http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/1492/crow.html
>
> Ben Jonson was also a bit sniffy about Shakespeare in both _Timber_ and
> _Conversations with Drummond_.
>
> It might be worth looking at the first volume of _Shakespeare: The
> Critical
> Heritage_ which *should* print all the earliest comments on WS.
>
> (Can't guarantee this, as haven't read it.)
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Robin Hamiton
>
> From: "Aaron Belz" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:00 AM
> Subject: Shakespeare panned?
>
>> I seem to remember that Shakespeare has had a number of vocal detractors
>> over the years.  Does anyone know where I can get a copy of
> anti-Shakespeare
>> writing from onr of his contemporaries or shortly after his lifetime?
>>
>> His plays rubbed classicists the wrong way, didn't they?
>>
>> Aaron
>> .
>> .
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>
>



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 03:02:10 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

blood in the snow
same ole program

my father would say
'er ist ein lodzer'

i was sure he
belonged to a lodge

blood in the snow
same ole program...



3:00....winter....blood deep...drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:25:56 -0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Robin Hamilton 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Wait a mo. It's been probably 40 years since I read Timber, but I remember
> Jonson's remarks as mostly complimentary, tho talking about his friend as
> human rather than god. It was I think the first serious reading of
> Shakespeare, and he didn't like everything.
>
> Mark

I think I'd stand by my original "sniffy" -- an ambiguous response on
Jonson's part.

Off the top of my head, the two comments in _Timber_ are (roughly) that the
players complimented Shakespeare on never revising a line.  Would he had
revised many of them, says Jonson.  And a remark that something Julius
Caesar says doesn't make sense.  (Oddly, the line in JC as we have it
*isn't* open to Jonson's objection, leading some people to think Shakespeare
may have revised it in the light of Jonson's comment.  Possibly not from
Timber itself, but from a pre-Timber comment in the Mermaid.)

In the Conversations (pissed out of his skull and retailing London literary
gossip to the fascinated William Drummond,) he says: "Shakespeare lacked
art."

Oh, I forgot this earlier, but there's the Stagekeeper's comments at the
beginning of _Bartholomew Fair_ which dismiss Titus Andronicus and The
Winter's Tale as respectively fusty and silly.

Slightly critical, yes, but I think Mark's right in that together they do
suggest that Jonson took Shakespeare seriously.

Against all that, of course, is the elegy/eulogy by Jonson prefixed to the
First Folio -- "What needs my Shakespeare for these honoured bones?" --
which is both more complimentary and more considered.

Robin
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:29:57 -0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Robin Hamilton 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> - but I dont think that Robert Greene is realy criticising
> Shakespeare the poet/playwrite - he is just seeing a rival and is
jealous...
>
> Richard Taylor

It's worth looking at what Bob Grumman says in "Upstart Crow" (in the URL I
gave) -- he thoroughly unteases the passage.

Robin
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:35:58 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      Re: Lodz Ghetto
In-Reply-To:  <20050125204022.32295e53@localhost.localdomain>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Hi Kevin:
It's not clear to me what your aim is in presenting us with these
quotes.  It is certainly true that there was a kind of puppet
governance in the ghettos, and that Jews were put in charge of
policing Jews.  But this kind of selective quoting and juxtaposition
of the Zizek with the foregoing is extremely disturbing and appears
to be intended as a provocation: i.e. what used to be called
Jew-baiting.

Since I've seen you post other stuff on the list, about Benjamin etc,
it is hard for me to believe that this is your intent; but reading
this, it's hard to believe that it is *not* your intent.

Can you explain?

It makes me very anxious that, in these politically ominous times,
i'm seeing something on the list that is all too historically
familiar.  Let's be clear that it is not "the Jews" who are running
this country into the ground and dispossessing millions around the
world and at home.

At 8:40 PM +0100 1/25/05, Kevin Magee wrote:
>"the field of the aleatory is immense, but not absolute"
>Henri Lefebvre
>
>"We learn that Hercberg [Salomon Hercberg, the commissioner of the
>Order Service and commandant of Central Prison] had been living in
>clover in the ghetto, that he owned three apartments and had been 'the
>lord and master of Marysin as if he were the governor of the most
>beautiful section of the ghetto,' that he received special commissions
>'in connection with the rounding-up of the ghetto's undesirable
>elements, 'and that many times, he had 'personally organized and
>directed night raids on apartments, as well as the raids that were
>carried out in broad daylight on the streets.'" (Dobroszycki,
>xxvi-xxvii).
>
>"Such [other] observations are made in the margin next to his remarks
>on the Jewish police in the ghetto and its brutal, Gestapo-like
>behavior, where he goes on to define the police as a group, and class
>apart, of the Eldest's followers which also served as his bodyguard,
>'Schutzgarde fur Chaim,' to use Rosenfeld's own words" [Dr. Oscar
>Rosenfeld, 'Private diary, not to be read, a memoir for the future']".
>(Dobroszycki, xxix).
>
>"At that time it was the former workers' parties, chiefly the Bund,
>the Poale Zion, and the communists that took up the cry of struggle.
>In keeping with their traditions and also with a seemingly incomplete
>grasp of the radical changes that had resulted from the Nazi
>occupation of the country in general and Lodz in particular, those
>parties reverted to street demonstrations and strikes as their
>principal means of protest. They were, of course, doomed to failure;
>to maintain some sort of discipline in the ranks of the demonstrators
>exhausted by hunger, for instance, was nearly impossible. Moreover,
>the demonstrators began increasingly to be led by elements not
>connected with any party, by random individuals, or by people from the
>criminal world and so-called strong men. During one such demonstration
>in the summer of 1940, brutally suppressed by the Eldest of the Jews'
>police, demands were voiced that the ghetto's authorities include
>Germans. Its bearings lost, the crowd could not imagine that things
>could be any worse. The illusions were dispelled when the German
>police entered the ghetto and opened fire on the crowds. That was the
>end of open street demonstrations in the ghetto, though labor strikes
>would erupt from time to time in various workshops, chiefly as a
>protest against management. Yet, Rumkowski [Eldest of the Jews i.e.
>Patriarch of the Ghetto] was able to believe that he was in control of
>the situation. To be on the safe side, however, he removed the
>potential organizers of disturbances, at first by arresting them or
>sending them out of the ghetto to do forced labor, and, later on, by
>including them on the lists of those to be deported." (Dobroszycki,
>xlix-l).
>
>\\
>
>"The Muslims ("The 'Muslim' is the key figure of the Nazi
>extermination camp universe [fn 50: "I draw here on Chapter 2 of
>Giorgio Agamben's Ce qui reste d'Auschwitz, Paris: Rivages 1999.
>Incidentally, the traces of anti-Arab racism in this designation are
>more than evident: the designation 'Muslim', of course, emerged
>because the prisoners identified the behavior of the 'living dead' as
>close to the standard Western image of a 'Muslim', a person who is
>totally resigned to his fate, passively enduring all calamities as
>grounded in God's will. Today, however, in view of the Israeli-Arab
>conflict, this designation regains its actuality: the 'Muslim' is the
>extimate kernel, the zero-level, of the 'Jew' himself"]) are the
>'zero-level' of humanity: the Heideggerian co-ordinates of the project
>(Entwurf) through which the Dasein answers and assumes, in an engaged
>way, his being-thrown-in-the-world (Geworfenheit), are suspended here.
>The Muslims are a kind of 'living dead' who even cease to react to
>basic animal stimuli, who do not defend themselves when attacked, who
>gradually even cease to feel thirst and hunger, eating and drinking
>more out of blind habit than on account of some elementary animal
>need. For this reason, they are the point of the Real without symbolic
>Truth--there is no way to 'symbolize' their predicament, to organize
>it into a meaningful life-narrative. [...] One is tempted to say that
>the Muslim, precisely in so far as he is in a way 'less than animal',
>deprived even of animal vitality, is the necessary intermediate step
>between animal and man, the 'zero-level' of humanity in the precise
>sense of what Hegel called 'the night of the world', the withdrawal
>from engaged immersion in one's environment, the pure self-relating
>negativity which, as it were, 'wipes the slate' and thus opens up the
>space for specifically human symbolic engagement. To put it yet
>another way: the Muslim is not simply outside language (as is the case
>with the animal), he is the absence of language as such, silence as a
>positive fact, as the rock of impossibility, the Void, the background
>for speech to emerge against. In this precise sense, one can say that
>in order to 'become human', to bridge the gap between animal immersion
>in the environment to human activity, we all, at some point, have had
>to be Muslims, to pass through the zero-level designated by this
>term." (Zizek, 73, 76-78).
>
>
>--
>
>Lucjan Dobroszycki, ed. The Chronicle of the Lodz Ghetto 1941-1944.
>Trans. Richard Lourie, Joachim Neugroschel, et al. New Haven: Yale
>University Press, 1984.
>
>Slavoj Zizek, Did Somebody Say Totalitarianism? London: Verso, 2001.


--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:43:27 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Pierre Joris 
Subject:      Music Voice Video Poetry  JAM
In-Reply-To:  <00d201c5035a$f49cbda0$3ea9fea9@DC3NX221>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
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For those in the Albany, NY area -- though do come from further afield=20=

too!

Friday 28 & Saturday 29th January ,  8:00pm 5$

Music Voice Video Poetry  JAM
Steamer No10 Theater  5/d/p
500 Western Av  Albany NY  (518) 438-5503

Tom Burre guitar/electronics
Mike Lopez percussions
George Muscatello  guitar
Nicole Peyrafitte voice/video
special guest:  Pierre Joris  poetry

Music Voice Video Poetry  JAM :
=93a period of time spent making improvised music  & experimenting with=20=

new songs & poetry & techniques=94.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
"Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all."  -- Gottfried Benn
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
For updates on readings, etc. check my  current events page:
             http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pierre Joris
244 Elm Street=09
Albany NY 12202 =09
h: 518 426 0433 =09
c: 518 225 7123                                                 =09
o: 518 442 40 85                                                        =09=

email: joris@albany.edu
http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 10:08:14 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Pierre Joris 
Subject:      Re: Lodz Ghetto
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tomorrow 60 years ago, Soviet troops liberated the Auschwitz-Birkenau
concentration camp.


On Jan 26, 2005, at 9:35 AM, Maria Damon wrote:

> Hi Kevin:
> It's not clear to me what your aim is in presenting us with these
> quotes.  It is certainly true that there was a kind of puppet
> governance in the ghettos, and that Jews were put in charge of
> policing Jews.  But this kind of selective quoting and juxtaposition
> of the Zizek with the foregoing is extremely disturbing and appears
> to be intended as a provocation: i.e. what used to be called
> Jew-baiting.
>
> Since I've seen you post other stuff on the list, about Benjamin etc,
> it is hard for me to believe that this is your intent; but reading
> this, it's hard to believe that it is *not* your intent.
>
> Can you explain?
>
> It makes me very anxious that, in these politically ominous times,
> i'm seeing something on the list that is all too historically
> familiar.  Let's be clear that it is not "the Jews" who are running
> this country into the ground and dispossessing millions around the
> world and at home.
>
> At 8:40 PM +0100 1/25/05, Kevin Magee wrote:
>> "the field of the aleatory is immense, but not absolute"
>> Henri Lefebvre
>>
>> "We learn that Hercberg [Salomon Hercberg, the commissioner of the
>> Order Service and commandant of Central Prison] had been living in
>> clover in the ghetto, that he owned three apartments and had been 'the
>> lord and master of Marysin as if he were the governor of the most
>> beautiful section of the ghetto,' that he received special commissions
>> 'in connection with the rounding-up of the ghetto's undesirable
>> elements, 'and that many times, he had 'personally organized and
>> directed night raids on apartments, as well as the raids that were
>> carried out in broad daylight on the streets.'" (Dobroszycki,
>> xxvi-xxvii).
>>
>> "Such [other] observations are made in the margin next to his remarks
>> on the Jewish police in the ghetto and its brutal, Gestapo-like
>> behavior, where he goes on to define the police as a group, and class
>> apart, of the Eldest's followers which also served as his bodyguard,
>> 'Schutzgarde fur Chaim,' to use Rosenfeld's own words" [Dr. Oscar
>> Rosenfeld, 'Private diary, not to be read, a memoir for the future']".
>> (Dobroszycki, xxix).
>>
>> "At that time it was the former workers' parties, chiefly the Bund,
>> the Poale Zion, and the communists that took up the cry of struggle.
>> In keeping with their traditions and also with a seemingly incomplete
>> grasp of the radical changes that had resulted from the Nazi
>> occupation of the country in general and Lodz in particular, those
>> parties reverted to street demonstrations and strikes as their
>> principal means of protest. They were, of course, doomed to failure;
>> to maintain some sort of discipline in the ranks of the demonstrators
>> exhausted by hunger, for instance, was nearly impossible. Moreover,
>> the demonstrators began increasingly to be led by elements not
>> connected with any party, by random individuals, or by people from the
>> criminal world and so-called strong men. During one such demonstration
>> in the summer of 1940, brutally suppressed by the Eldest of the Jews'
>> police, demands were voiced that the ghetto's authorities include
>> Germans. Its bearings lost, the crowd could not imagine that things
>> could be any worse. The illusions were dispelled when the German
>> police entered the ghetto and opened fire on the crowds. That was the
>> end of open street demonstrations in the ghetto, though labor strikes
>> would erupt from time to time in various workshops, chiefly as a
>> protest against management. Yet, Rumkowski [Eldest of the Jews i.e.
>> Patriarch of the Ghetto] was able to believe that he was in control of
>> the situation. To be on the safe side, however, he removed the
>> potential organizers of disturbances, at first by arresting them or
>> sending them out of the ghetto to do forced labor, and, later on, by
>> including them on the lists of those to be deported." (Dobroszycki,
>> xlix-l).
>>
>> \\
>>
>> "The Muslims ("The 'Muslim' is the key figure of the Nazi
>> extermination camp universe [fn 50: "I draw here on Chapter 2 of
>> Giorgio Agamben's Ce qui reste d'Auschwitz, Paris: Rivages 1999.
>> Incidentally, the traces of anti-Arab racism in this designation are
>> more than evident: the designation 'Muslim', of course, emerged
>> because the prisoners identified the behavior of the 'living dead' as
>> close to the standard Western image of a 'Muslim', a person who is
>> totally resigned to his fate, passively enduring all calamities as
>> grounded in God's will. Today, however, in view of the Israeli-Arab
>> conflict, this designation regains its actuality: the 'Muslim' is the
>> extimate kernel, the zero-level, of the 'Jew' himself"]) are the
>> 'zero-level' of humanity: the Heideggerian co-ordinates of the project
>> (Entwurf) through which the Dasein answers and assumes, in an engaged
>> way, his being-thrown-in-the-world (Geworfenheit), are suspended here.
>> The Muslims are a kind of 'living dead' who even cease to react to
>> basic animal stimuli, who do not defend themselves when attacked, who
>> gradually even cease to feel thirst and hunger, eating and drinking
>> more out of blind habit than on account of some elementary animal
>> need. For this reason, they are the point of the Real without symbolic
>> Truth--there is no way to 'symbolize' their predicament, to organize
>> it into a meaningful life-narrative. [...] One is tempted to say that
>> the Muslim, precisely in so far as he is in a way 'less than animal',
>> deprived even of animal vitality, is the necessary intermediate step
>> between animal and man, the 'zero-level' of humanity in the precise
>> sense of what Hegel called 'the night of the world', the withdrawal
>> from engaged immersion in one's environment, the pure self-relating
>> negativity which, as it were, 'wipes the slate' and thus opens up the
>> space for specifically human symbolic engagement. To put it yet
>> another way: the Muslim is not simply outside language (as is the case
>> with the animal), he is the absence of language as such, silence as a
>> positive fact, as the rock of impossibility, the Void, the background
>> for speech to emerge against. In this precise sense, one can say that
>> in order to 'become human', to bridge the gap between animal immersion
>> in the environment to human activity, we all, at some point, have had
>> to be Muslims, to pass through the zero-level designated by this
>> term." (Zizek, 73, 76-78).
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Lucjan Dobroszycki, ed. The Chronicle of the Lodz Ghetto 1941-1944.
>> Trans. Richard Lourie, Joachim Neugroschel, et al. New Haven: Yale
>> University Press, 1984.
>>
>> Slavoj Zizek, Did Somebody Say Totalitarianism? London: Verso, 2001.
>
>
> --
>
>
=================================================
"Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all."  -- Gottfried Benn
=================================================
For updates on readings, etc. check my  current events page:
             http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html
=================================================
Pierre Joris
244 Elm Street
Albany NY 12202
h: 518 426 0433
c: 518 225 7123
o: 518 442 40 85
email: joris@albany.edu
http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
=================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:06:09 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     RFC822 error:  Incorrect or incomplete address field found and
              ignored.
From:         Ishaq 
Organization: selah7
Subject:      PUB: call for papers--asian and black writing in britain,
              1800-1930
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT

 >>PUB: call for papers--asian and black writing in britain, 1800-1930
============================================================

CFP: Asian and Black Writing in Britain, 1800-1930 (3/15/05; collection)
 >
 >  Colonial Cosmopolitanism: Asian and Black Writing in Britain, 1800-1930
 >
 >  Essays are invited for an edited collection entitled Colonial
 >  Cosmopolitanism: Asian and Black Writing in Britain, 1800-1930.
 >  Following the publication of Peter Fryer's Staying Power: A History of
 >  Black People in Britain, Antoinette Burton's At the Heart of the Empire,
 >  Sukhdev Sandhu's London Calling: How Black and Asian Writers Imagined a
 >  City, C.L. Innes' A History of Black and Asian Writing in Britain,
 >  1700-2000, Gretchen Gerzina's Black London: Life Before Emancipation,
 >  and Rozina Visram's Asians in Britain: 400 Years of History, scholars
 >  are excavating the forgotten presence of slaves, émigrés, travelers,
 >  servants, students, royalty and reformers who arrived in imperial
 >  Britain from the colonies. This collection will consider the literary
 >  concequences of this critical mass of colonial Others in Britain: how do
 >  colonized subjects articulate their presence in England in literary
 >  ways? What kind of narratives do they produce about England? How do
 >  these writers alter traditional literary categories such as Romanticism,
 >  travel narratives, autobiography, the realist novel, and early
 >  modernism?  How does our understanding of these canonical genres and
 >  periods change with the inclusion of Asian and Black writings?  How does
 >  the rehabilitation of these texts allow for the construction of a
 >  pre-history of post-colonial literature in general and Black British
 >  literature in particular?  We are especially interested in essays that
 >  engage in archival recovery of literary texts.
 >
 >  Please email abstracts(250 to 400 words) by March 15, 2005 to:
 >
 >  Jocelyn Stitt
 >  jocstitt@umich.edu
 >  and
 >  Pallavi Rastogi
 >  prastogi@lsu.edu
 >
 > Inquiries are welcome.

___\
Stay Strong\
\
 "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \
--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\
\
"This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\
of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\
--HellRazah\
\
"It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\
--Mutabartuka\
\
"As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \
our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \
actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\
 - Frantz Fanon\
\
"Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\
-Imam Ja'far Sadiq\
\
http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\
\
http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \
\
http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\
\
http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\
\
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:31:18 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Brett Fletcher Lauer 
Subject:      Verse Press  + Valentine's Day = Music & Poetry Parties Nationwide
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

To celebrate Valentine’s Day and the recently published anthology ISN'T IT
ROMANTIC: 100 LOVE POEMS BY YOUNGER AMERICAN POETS
(with includes a CD of love songs), independent poetry publisher Verse Press
is throwing a love-fest: parties featuring live music and poetry readings in
cities
across the U.S. We hope you’ll join us in your city:

**

EVENT DETAILS
(All events Monday, February 14, 2005):

**

NEW YORK, NY

MUSIC BY: Jason Molina solo (Magnolia Electric Co., Songs: Ohia), Mark
Mulcahy, Lo Fine +  Madame Butterfly + Megan Reilly + The Malarkies

POETRY BY: Anselm Berrigan, Peter Gizzi, Noelle Kocot-Tomblin, Matthew
Rohrer, Rachel Zucker
Also featuring: DJ Sad Bastard/ Spin The Bottle/ 7 Minutes in Heaven/

Gifts from Toys in Babeland

The Knitting Factory
74 Leonard St., New York, NY 10013
8:00 p.m., Tickets: $10 Advance, $13 Day of Show
Phone:  212-219-3132
www.knittingfactory.com

**

SAN FRANCISCO, CA

MUSIC BY:  Michael Zapruder’s Rain of Frogs,  Ray’s Vast Basement, Our Lady
of the Highway

POETRY BY:  Gillian Conoley, Beth Lisick, D.A. Powell, Chris Stroffolino,
Joe Wenderoth

The Makeout Room
3225  22nd Street, San Francisco, CA  94110
9:00 p.m., $7 cover
Phone: 415-647-2888
Website:  www.makeoutroom.com

**

CHICAGO, IL

MUSIC BY: L’Altra, Charlemagne, DJs Kid Levitra and Joel Craig

POETRY BY: Bridget Bates, John Beer, Suzanne Buffam, Joel Craig, Arielle
Greenberg, Richard Meier, Srikanth
Reddy, Jesse Seldess, James Shea, David Trinidad

The Hideout
1354 W. Wabansia, Chicago, IL 60622
www.hideoutchicago.com
Phone:  773-227-4433
$5  Suggested donation

**

BOSTON/CAMBRIDGE, MA

MUSIC BY:  Certainly Sir, Spouse, The Specific Heats

POETRY BY:  Michael Brodeur, Dorothea Lasky, Travis Nichols, others to be
announced

Lizard Lounge
1667 Massachusetts Ave., Cambridge, MA 02138
Phone: 617-547-0759

**

SEATTLE, WA

MUSIC BY:  DJ Chilly (of KEXP) will spin 100 love songs from the 60s and 70s

POETRY BY: Joshua Beckman, Geoffrey Nutter, Catherine Wagner, and featuring
John Marshall and Christine
Deavel reading from Romeo and Juliet

Gifts from Toys in Babeland

Barca
15120  11th Ave., Seattle, WA 98122
8:00  p.m., Admission: Free
Phone: (206) 325-8263

**

WASHINGTON, D.C.

MUSIC BY:  Jenny Toomey, Garland of Hours

POETRY BY:  Cathy Eisenhower, Lorraine Graham, Mark McMorris, Carly Sachs,
Rod Smith

The Black Cat
811 Fourteenth St. NW, Washington, DC
Phone: 202-667-7960
www.blackcatdc.com

**

COLUMBUS, OH

POETRY BY:  Josh Bell, Matt Zambito, Sommer Sterud, Jason Gray, Betsy
Wheeler, Carrie Shipers, Ariane
Bolduc, Jill Khoury, Drew Blanchard

Isabel Galbraith Mahan Gallery
1042 North High Street
Columbus, OH 43201
Phone: 614-294-3278
8:00 – wine, martinis and desserts; 8:30 readings
begin. Admission: Free
After party at the Bristol Bar, 132 East 5th Ave.:
www.bristolbar.com

**

AMHERST, MA :  (this event is Sunday, February 13th)

POETS:  Rob Casper, Peter Gizzi, Aimee Kelley, Travis Nichols, Lori Shine
and Michael Teig will read from
the anthology

Jubilat/Jones Reading Series
Jones Library, 43 Amity St., Amherst MA 01002
3:00 p.m., Admission: Free
www.jubilat.org/series.html

**

PRAISE for ISN’T IT ROMANTIC:

". . . brims with humor and decadence. An accompanying 20-song CD provides a
melancholy-yet-moving soundtrack
. . ."  --MAGNET

". . .the book is one of the most enjoyable and refreshing reads in recent
memory, and the supplementary CD of indie-rock love songs is sure to become
the soundtrack to 2005." –-American Poet (The Academy of American Poets)

**

For purchasing information and press downloads, visit:
http://www.versepress.org/romanticpress

For up to the minute details on all U.S. Valentine’s
Day events, visit:
http://www.versepress.org/romanticparties.html

**
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:47:16 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ian Randall Wilson 
Subject:      Best American Poetry 2004 critical review
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sorry but Houlihan is always hilarious in her inability to move beyond the
narrowest confines of what she believes poetry ought to be.  You can't really
argue with her because she simply repeats her (tired) list of markers that tell
her she's reading "poetry."  Absence of markers, absence of poetry -- in her
estimation.  Yet her own stuff is so mannered that it's almost unreadable.

I suppose what's more amazing about Houlihan is that she's obviously read
outside of her area yet remains unable to acknowledge that there are "poetries."
She reminds me of the Neo-classicists.  [5 acts, unity of time and place.]
They hated Shakespeare for his unruliness and lack of convention, you  may
recall.

I agree with LH in her introduction, the idea of "bestness" is always
problematic.  But it's a marketing issue:  Can you sell an anthology titled "Of The
Poems Published in 2004 Here's a Group I Thought Might Interest You"?  But
surely that's what being sold.

So what to do about someone like Houlihan?  Ignore her?  Shun her?  Attack
her?  Don't publish her if you edit a journal and she submits?  Do we want her
love?  Her approbation?  (There's a word.)

For me, I enjoy her essays because I can smell her fear.  She's certain that
the inmates are taking over and it scares her to death.


Ian Randall Wilson
Managing Editor
88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry
www.hollyridgepress.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 10:14:17 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Kazim Ali 
Subject:      Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review
In-Reply-To:  <1ed.341f0d51.2f2931a4@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Also to note: Adrienne Rich and Louise Gluck, neither
of whom would probably be aligned with Hejinian by
Houlihan, both took strong issue with "bestness" and
addressed it (albeit in very differing ways) in both
their prefaces to their "Bests" (Rich did in 1996 and
Gluck in 1993) and in their selection process for the
book.

What's funny is that *every* single one of the judges
of that particular series has *always* only chosen
poetries of their own interest. The most aesthetically
diverse of the ones I myself have read are Creeley's,
Hass's, Graham's, and this new one by Lyn Hejinian.
But when has it not been "Of all the poems published
last year here's some I thought would interest you."
It's just that certain judges are clear about this.

=====
====

WAR IS OVER

(if you want it)

(e-mail president@whitehouse.gov)



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:24:26 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review
In-Reply-To:  <1ed.341f0d51.2f2931a4@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

i choose to ignore. who the hell is this joan houlihan and why shd i
care.  did she write "On Some Motifs in Baudelaire?"  did she write
"Poetry and Fate of the Senses?"  did she write "American Poetry and
the Public?" did she write "The Poetics of Relation?"  Did she write
"The Nervous System?"  Did she write that Ross Talarico book whose
name i forget?  no, she did not.  in fact,i can't tihnk of a single
thing that she has written that i find compelling enough to even be
motivated to read.  so why shd i pay attention?

At 12:47 PM -0500 1/26/05, Ian Randall Wilson wrote:
>Sorry but Houlihan is always hilarious in her inability to move beyond the
>narrowest confines of what she believes poetry ought to be.  You can't really
>argue with her because she simply repeats her (tired) list of
>markers that tell
>her she's reading "poetry."  Absence of markers, absence of poetry -- in her
>estimation.  Yet her own stuff is so mannered that it's almost unreadable.
>
>I suppose what's more amazing about Houlihan is that she's obviously read
>outside of her area yet remains unable to acknowledge that there are
>"poetries."
>She reminds me of the Neo-classicists.  [5 acts, unity of time and place.]
>They hated Shakespeare for his unruliness and lack of convention, you  may
>recall.
>
>I agree with LH in her introduction, the idea of "bestness" is always
>problematic.  But it's a marketing issue:  Can you sell an anthology
>titled "Of The
>Poems Published in 2004 Here's a Group I Thought Might Interest You"?  But
>surely that's what being sold.
>
>So what to do about someone like Houlihan?  Ignore her?  Shun her?  Attack
>her?  Don't publish her if you edit a journal and she submits?  Do we want her
>love?  Her approbation?  (There's a word.)
>
>For me, I enjoy her essays because I can smell her fear.  She's certain that
>the inmates are taking over and it scares her to death.
>
>
>Ian Randall Wilson
>Managing Editor
>88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry
>www.hollyridgepress.com


--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:05:02 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Small Press Traffic 
Subject:      final night of Poets Theater 2005
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi all, Come on out to the final night of our Poets Theater Jamboree 2005. Get
here early for best seating, grab a souvenir program, and settle in at
approximately 7:30 this Friday for ---


Jack Spicer, "[Nobody in the Bar]" (1956), directed by Del Ray Cross

Norma Cole, "Odile & Odette" (1996), directed by Carol & Elizabeth Treadwell

Matthew Celona, "The Gorillas Bush," directed by Stephanie Young

Amanda Davidson, "Arcana Caelestia," directed by the author

Anna Eyre & Robin Powesland, "Charlotte miserable in her web," directed by the
authors

Stephanie Young & David Hadbawnik, "The Last Experimental Poet in Captivity,"
directed by the authors


All seats $10 (it's a fundraiser!) & first come, first served.

7:30 PM FRIDAY JANUARY 28
TIMKEN HALL, CCA SF CAMPUS
1111 8TH ST (just off 16th & WISCONSIN)

See our website for map & directions.

Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director
Small Press Traffic
Literary Arts Center at CCA
1111 -- 8th Street
San Francisco, CA 94107
415.551.9278
http://www.sptraffic.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:29:25 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Small Press Traffic 
Subject:      An Evening with Susan Howe
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In our 30th anniversary year

Small Press Traffic

is pleased to invite you to our 10th annual  SOIREE

AN EVENING WITH SUSAN HOWE

Saturday, February 5, 2005, from 6 to 9 p.m.
Reading and discussion begin at 7:30 p.m.

Food, drink, and silent auction.


Hosted by SPT Board Member Eileen Tabios
& the rest of our wonderful Board


Tickets are $40; please call 415.551.9278 to reserve.



Great thanks to our sponsors: Kelsey St. Press, New Directions, Meritage
Press, Brent Cunningham, Penny Cooper & Rena Rosenwasser, & Eileen Tabios



PS this is our last fundraiser for the season -- they got a bit bunched up
this year!
Hope to see you there, Elizabeth

Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director
Small Press Traffic
Literary Arts Center at CCA
1111 -- 8th Street
San Francisco, CA 94107
415.551.9278
http://www.sptraffic.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:38:49 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Joel Weishaus 
Subject:      Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Maria:

You should care because she supplies a different perspective than is usually
found on this list. I don't subscribe it in my own work, but, by responses
such as yours, she stirs up some thinking. That's what a critic should do.

-Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maria Damon" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review


> i choose to ignore. who the hell is this joan houlihan and why shd i
> care.  did she write "On Some Motifs in Baudelaire?"  did she write
> "Poetry and Fate of the Senses?"  did she write "American Poetry and
> the Public?" did she write "The Poetics of Relation?"  Did she write
> "The Nervous System?"  Did she write that Ross Talarico book whose
> name i forget?  no, she did not.  in fact,i can't tihnk of a single
> thing that she has written that i find compelling enough to even be
> motivated to read.  so why shd i pay attention?
>
> At 12:47 PM -0500 1/26/05, Ian Randall Wilson wrote:
> >Sorry but Houlihan is always hilarious in her inability to move beyond
the
> >narrowest confines of what she believes poetry ought to be.  You can't
really
> >argue with her because she simply repeats her (tired) list of
> >markers that tell
> >her she's reading "poetry."  Absence of markers, absence of poetry -- in
her
> >estimation.  Yet her own stuff is so mannered that it's almost
unreadable.
> >
> >I suppose what's more amazing about Houlihan is that she's obviously read
> >outside of her area yet remains unable to acknowledge that there are
> >"poetries."
> >She reminds me of the Neo-classicists.  [5 acts, unity of time and
place.]
> >They hated Shakespeare for his unruliness and lack of convention, you
may
> >recall.
> >
> >I agree with LH in her introduction, the idea of "bestness" is always
> >problematic.  But it's a marketing issue:  Can you sell an anthology
> >titled "Of The
> >Poems Published in 2004 Here's a Group I Thought Might Interest You"?
But
> >surely that's what being sold.
> >
> >So what to do about someone like Houlihan?  Ignore her?  Shun her?
Attack
> >her?  Don't publish her if you edit a journal and she submits?  Do we
want her
> >love?  Her approbation?  (There's a word.)
> >
> >For me, I enjoy her essays because I can smell her fear.  She's certain
that
> >the inmates are taking over and it scares her to death.
> >
> >
> >Ian Randall Wilson
> >Managing Editor
> >88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry
> >www.hollyridgepress.com
>
>
> --
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:55:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Anastasios Kozaitis 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Anastasios Kozaitis 
Subject:      Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review
In-Reply-To:  <03cb01c503e7$0bc6e500$70fdfc83@Weishaus>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

It amazes me how defensive people get about her writing...
Obviously, her essays/reviews are effective and getting a reaction out
of people. Should everyone just agree with the ideology of the
"post-avant"? Sounds mighty Republican to me. Ah, the Grand Ole Party!


On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:38:49 -0800, Joel Weishaus  wrote:
> Maria:
>
> You should care because she supplies a different perspective than is usually
> found on this list. I don't subscribe it in my own work, but, by responses
> such as yours, she stirs up some thinking. That's what a critic should do.
>
> -Joel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Maria Damon" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review
>
> > i choose to ignore. who the hell is this joan houlihan and why shd i
> > care.  did she write "On Some Motifs in Baudelaire?"  did she write
> > "Poetry and Fate of the Senses?"  did she write "American Poetry and
> > the Public?" did she write "The Poetics of Relation?"  Did she write
> > "The Nervous System?"  Did she write that Ross Talarico book whose
> > name i forget?  no, she did not.  in fact,i can't tihnk of a single
> > thing that she has written that i find compelling enough to even be
> > motivated to read.  so why shd i pay attention?
> >
> > At 12:47 PM -0500 1/26/05, Ian Randall Wilson wrote:
> > >Sorry but Houlihan is always hilarious in her inability to move beyond
> the
> > >narrowest confines of what she believes poetry ought to be.  You can't
> really
> > >argue with her because she simply repeats her (tired) list of
> > >markers that tell
> > >her she's reading "poetry."  Absence of markers, absence of poetry -- in
> her
> > >estimation.  Yet her own stuff is so mannered that it's almost
> unreadable.
> > >
> > >I suppose what's more amazing about Houlihan is that she's obviously read
> > >outside of her area yet remains unable to acknowledge that there are
> > >"poetries."
> > >She reminds me of the Neo-classicists.  [5 acts, unity of time and
> place.]
> > >They hated Shakespeare for his unruliness and lack of convention, you
> may
> > >recall.
> > >
> > >I agree with LH in her introduction, the idea of "bestness" is always
> > >problematic.  But it's a marketing issue:  Can you sell an anthology
> > >titled "Of The
> > >Poems Published in 2004 Here's a Group I Thought Might Interest You"?
> But
> > >surely that's what being sold.
> > >
> > >So what to do about someone like Houlihan?  Ignore her?  Shun her?
> Attack
> > >her?  Don't publish her if you edit a journal and she submits?  Do we
> want her
> > >love?  Her approbation?  (There's a word.)
> > >
> > >For me, I enjoy her essays because I can smell her fear.  She's certain
> that
> > >the inmates are taking over and it scares her to death.
> > >
> > >
> > >Ian Randall Wilson
> > >Managing Editor
> > >88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry
> > >www.hollyridgepress.com
> >
> >
> > --
> >
>


--
Anastasios Kozaitis
3063 29th Street
Astoria, NY 11102

kozaitis@gmail.com

m: 917 572 6561
h: 718 267 7943
w: 212 327 8696
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:46:57 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Michael Cross 
Subject:      Two Fun Events this Weekend!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Dear All:

This is the big weekend, friends! BIG! Friday night, many of us will
participate in a reading at the Albright-Knox organized by Just
Buffalo as part of the museum's "Free Fridays" series. The line-up:
Manson, Cole, Campbell, Cross, Basinski, Donovan, Big Larry, etc. (Who
am I forgetting? Is Skinner reading??). It's free, and there may be
some manifestation of a DJ spinning records. Clifton Hall, 6-8pm, Fri.
28th.

THEN! Saturday night, we celebrate the book release of Eli Drabman's
_the ground running_. He is one of our own, and his book is BIG (in
dimensions!) and GOOD. He will be reading with Robert Paradez (from
Brooklyn) at Big Orbit (30D Essex) Saturday evening (the 29th) at 7
pm. Bring cash! All Atticus/Finch chaps will be on hand and CHEAP (5 a
piece).

Bye,
Michael
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 00:34:28 +0100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Kevin Magee 
Subject:      Benjamin/Berryman
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Maria,

There's a memoir by someone who was with Benjamin in detention in
France, where he's quoted as having said something about what was
happening then which included the remark, "proletarianization of the
Jews."

This may be one of the differences between the Warsaw and Lodz
ghettos. Poland's Manchester was converted into an accelerated
production site for uniforms by exploiting pre-existing social and
class divisions in addition to using overwhelming military and police
force.

Is it at all possible that the sublimity of the evil of the 1940s
holocaust intensifies into hyper-abstraction in proportion to which
the social and class divisions within that targeted population
dissolve into the more attractive idea of the mass victim?

The present subject line remembers an invitation you made some time
ago to tour the site in the Twin Cities at a certain bridge, and it
occurred to me at the time that the problem of the humor could pass
unremarked in a country and a condition where there is no trace in the
architecture from which the "proletarianized" leapt out of
windows--that is a difference, and distance.

Lodz was not destroyed in the war. The names of the streets were not
changed. Many of the buildings still stand. The Chronicle of the Lodz
Ghetto, three volumes in German and Polish of which the English
edition is an abridged version, documents the street and address where
this or that person threw themselves. Most of the buildings have only
two or three stories. Sometimes they did not die for days. What
historical memory, if any, persists in these buildings and streets
David Lynch has expressed such fondness for? Only Disney can do the
image.

Lefebvre: "Now that distance has been explained, and its necessity,
have you first understood this profound irony: that the dark side, the
negative, creates what is most positive?" Ranciere, speaking in Berlin
last week, would have disagreed, for he was speaking out against the
negative, the counter-move, the shock effect.

Or is the subject line, Lodz Ghetto, a negative moment in the
dialectic of recent and distant past (Benjamin's) that should include,
among other things, the obscene laughter about that bridge in the Twin
Cities? By way of contrast, in the winter of 2001-2002 in Russia a
statue of Mandelstam was raised in Vladivostok. The two poets do not
bear comparison, but the cultural gap between the joke and the statue
signfies something?

Inke Arns, chairing a panel of Russian and Albanian leftists at the
same conference where Ranciere and Mouffe spoke, mentioned the tactic
of over-identification which emerged as one form of resistance in art
under the pre-1989 regimes in Eastern European and the former Soviet
Union.

Could one intention motivating the counter-move to the original
subject line, Lodz Ghetto, have been an explicit act of
over-identification with the manifest text of that message targeting
the name of a foreign and formerly occupied city?

What else is being targeted by the dominant, the American
righteousness--or worse, if there is a subtext that has nothing to do
with the political issue of the Middle East, for that would be
cynicism--and its appeal to "ce qui reste d'Auschwitz"?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:54:33 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Juliana Mary Spahr 
Subject:      act art at mills,  oaklandish and suzanne lacy
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Content-disposition: inline

A slight change - digital slides from Oaklandish=2C music=2C food and dri=
nks
will actually start =40

6=3A30 (promptly)

followed by the 7=3A00 screening and discussion with Suzanne Lacy=2C Uniq=
ue
Holland and other collaborators on the CODE 33 project=2E

Hope to see you there -


ACT ART!
Start the conversation=2E Performances=2C readings and dialogues by
artist-activists=2E

Thursday=2C January 27
6=3A30 reception
and OAKLANDISH begins projecting images

7=3A00 CODE 33 video screening and dialogue
=40 the Mills College Art Museum

FREE*MUSIC*FOOD

OUTSIDE THE MUSEUM=3A Local collective Oaklandish
(http=3A//www=2Eoaklandish=2Ecom/) presents digital slide projections fro=
m
City of Dreams=2C an Oakland retrospective with 130 images celebrating
folk personalities from the arts and sciences=2C activists for civil
liberty=2C politicians and athletes=2E

INSIDE THE MUSEUM=3A Artists Suzanne Lacy and Unique Holland revisit CODE=

33=2C (http=3A//www=2Esuzannelacy=2Ecom/1990soakland=5Fcode33=5Fpolicy=2E=
htm) a
three-year project intended to reduce police hostility toward youth and
increase youth participation in their communities=2E

Named after the police radio code for =93emergency=2C clear the radio
waves=2C=94 CODE 33 utilized multiple strategies=2C including art worksho=
ps
for 350 Oakland youth=2C presentations at neighborhood Crime Prevention
Councils=2C a mass media campaign and a youth-adult artist team who
designed and produced the CODE 33 performance=2E See footage from the
performance and hear how the project continues to impact the artists=2C
youth=2C teachers=2C administrators and police officers who made it happe=
n=2E

Suzanne and Unique will be joined in dialogue by a panel of CODE 33
participants=2C including=3A

Sheila Jordan (Alameda County Superintendent of Schools)
Chris Johnson (Artist)
Jackie Johnson (Oakland Youth)
Arnold Perkins (Alameda County Dept of Health Director)
Sara Chavez (Former Youth)
Hugh Kidd (Oakland Police Officer)
Jidan Koon (Youth Advocate)


FOR MORE INFO=3A
http=3A//activatingthelocal=2Esquarespace=2Ecom/
or call 510-430-3130

Coming up in the ACT ART series =2E =2E =2E

FEBRUARY 24=2C Mills Hall Living Room=2C 7=3A00-8=3A30
Tijuana poet and writer Heriberto Y=E8pez

MARCH 17=2C Mills Hall Living Room=2C 7=3A00-8=3A30
Gaye Chan and Nandita Sharma=2C Historic Waikiki

APRIL 14=2C Lisser Theater=2C 7=3A00-8=3A30
The Yes Men

ACT ART is funded in part by the James Irvine Foundation=2C the
Contemporary Writers Series=2C Poets =26 Writers=2C Inc=2E through a gran=
t it
has received from the Hearst Foundation=2C and =27A =27A Arts=2E
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 16:02:13 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original

Robin

All that reads like the start of a book or story by Umberto Eco or Borges !!
I'm glad I am not a Shakespearian scholar or  a student studying the
complexities of the historicity of finding who Shakespear was or what he was
or - actually there are some fascinating questions here  - eg how do we know
about history and who wrote what?  It applies to certain situations today in
understanding or in beliving who said what in politcs etc - it is
historiography -philosophy etc or it reminds me of that big section in
Ullysses that I recall had me baffled - I suppose I can get an
interpretation somewhere to look at it again - but its almost as if we are
creating Shakespear (or he has been created sice he first appeared on the
'stage' - or perhaps before that !! maybe before he was born!! Or
prolepticaly by ..Joyce or someone?)) - or that he never existed - I believe
this magical stuff  is/was Baudrillard's forte  - but have never read the
man - - but I thought that his 'suppose' not to = 'pretend' was dubious
...as in sense when we 'suppose' we do in fact 'pretend' - he needed to
explain a bit that 'pretend' has several meanings - or at least
connotations...

The questions are did he mean that WS

 1) was only a lowly actor with no Greek and little Latin who thought
himself (wrongly) good enough to write blank verse  and plays that fact were
not well written.
(conceited -of course with the double entendre of arrogance and also he was
too prolix, tooo "winding" - long winding - long winded....a windy bag - a
Shag bag speared...)

2)  and hence because of this (and other amters pending and reallted or in
conjunct or of relative relvance or not)) it is clear he is referring to
Shakespear as the author - not Oxford etc ???!?

3) was a plagiarist - perhaps only in the line quoted by Greene (and Grunman
is quoting from is Alexander or someone who believes Shakespear was Oxfrod
or Bacon ? No?)

4) Other.

There are further possibilties - 'Shake-scene'  (obscene  implied in their
also?) is clever - in fact could the whole thing not  have been written by
Shakespear himself? In conjuntion with Greene etal who actually admired WS
and this was an opportunity for some propaganda for Bill? And we have lost
the rest? The follow ups...

My 'old' Professor at Auckland University - not that older than myself - Mac
Jackson would love all this  - he is an expert in Shakesperean
scholarship...

But surely it is resolved by the old chestnut :  "Shakespear's plays were
not written by Shakespeare but by another person of the same name"  !!?  (of
course this is further deepened by the fact atht saheks spear clearly
didntknwo he he was  himself as he spelt (spelt - doth that not contain the
word or part of the word "spell'  -was he perhaps a conjuror?) his own name
in several different ways!!

Shakespeare - it is strange how this incredible genius of words appears out
of nothing and tells of everything radiating throughout time including the
nothing.

Richard Taylor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Hamilton" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:29 AM
Subject: Re: Shakespeare panned?


>> - but I dont think that Robert Greene is realy criticising
>> Shakespeare the poet/playwrite - he is just seeing a rival and is
> jealous...
>>
>> Richard Taylor
>
> It's worth looking at what Bob Grumman says in "Upstart Crow" (in the URL
> I
> gave) -- he thoroughly unteases the passage.
>
> Robin
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>
>



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 22:26:07 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Dan Machlin 
Subject:      Sean Killian & Laura Moriarty @ Segue
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Segue Series/Bowery Poetry Club Reading Series

SEAN KILLIAN and LAURA MORIARTY

Saturday, January 29th, 2005
4:00 - 6:00 PM
308 BOWERY, just north of Houston
****$5 admission goes to support the readers****
Fall / Winter 2004

Sean Killian, of Manhattan and Catskill, New York, is completing two=20
new collections of poetry. He has studied with Robert Duncan and=20
Jacques Derrida; of his 1999 chapbook, Feint By Feint, Derrida wrote=20
"An immense chance of dialogue, speech, gift, heart-- here, for=20
reception."

Laura Moriarty is the author of ten books of poetry. Self-Destruction=20
is just out from Post-Apollo Press. Other recent titles include Nude=20
Memoir (Krupskaya) and The Case (O Books). She has also published a=20
short novel, Cunning (Spuyten Duyvil). Among her awards are a Poetry=20
Center Book Award and Gerbode Foundation Grant. She is currently=20
Acquisition & Marketing Director at Small Press Distribution in=20
Berkeley, CA.

The Segue Reading Series is made possible by the support of The Segue=20
Foundation. For more information, please visit www.segue.org/calendar,=20=

http://bowerypoetry.com/midsection.htm or call (212) 614-0505.=20
Curators: Dec.-Jan. Dan Machlin & M=F3nica de la Torre.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 22:26:03 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Joe Brennan 
Subject:      Halliburton Asks For Another $80 Billion To Fight Public
              Relations War
Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 Click here: The Assassinated Press
http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/

Profits, Not Timetables, Matter in Iraq:
CIA Proprietary Washington Post Outs Rumsfeld's Private Special Ops Unit:
Halliburton Asks For Another 80 Billion Dollars To Fight Public Relations War
About The Billions They Already Stole:
Kindasleazie Rice, Bush's Barren Sally Hemmings, Defends 'Whitey's' House Of
Canards:
By HENRY A. KISSINGER & GEORGE P. SCHULTZ


They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.

".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in
the
sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful
language
of power.  There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or
hypocritical,
whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks.  The dominating
impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed
good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured

forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter
house.
One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first
giving
free reign to this hubbub of voices...."
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:25:30 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Prageeta Sharma 
Subject:      Thalia Field at the Poetry Project Monday Jan. 31st
Comments: To: alysonjune@hotmail.com, austensfoot@hotmail.com,
          awright123@yahoo.com, d141@hotmail.com, gordosghost@lee-gordon.org,
          ilgoldwert@hotmail.com, jabas550@newschool.edu,
          laurn268@newschool.edu, michaelcirelli@yahoo.com,
          miminyc@hotmail.com, MOHAMMADHAMOUDI@aol.com, rterichl@aol.com,
          SCC79@aol.com, rockers@medisg.Stanford.EDU, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

JAN 31  Talk Series: Thalia Field, =E2=80=9CBlunt Edge of Chaos: A Poetics o=
f=20
Emergent Forms=E2=80=9D
Monday, 8:00pm=20

A talk exploring the ways in which artistic/creative work models other livin=
g=20
forms in process, leading to a range of artistic =E2=80=9Cdisplay=E2=80=9D w=
hich is only=20
partly phenotypical with regard to literary =E2=80=9Cgenre.=E2=80=9D Working=
 between poetry,=20
essay, fiction, media and theater, these new forms are weedy and hard to def=
ine=20
by niche, while remaining genuine to their conditions and causes. Thalia Fie=
ld=20
is the author of Point and Line and Incarnate: Story Material as well as the=
=20
performance novel, Clown Shrapnel, forthcoming from Coffee House Press. She=20
teaches at Naropa=E2=80=99s Summer Writing Program in addition to the Progra=
m for=20
Literary Arts at Brown University.=20


All events are $8, $7 for students and seniors, $5 for members and begin at=20
8pm unless otherwise noted. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with=
=20
assistance and advance notice. Schedule subject to change. The Poetry Projec=
t is=20
located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of 2nd Ave and 10th St in=20
Manhattan.=20

Call (212) 674-0910 for more information.=20
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:37:10 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      WS and the ancients
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>>I cant read Greek but - does anyone think that any of say
>>Sophocles,Aeschylus, Euripidies, Aristophenies etc are in the same >>le=
ague
as Shakespeare?

Yes, I think so.

It's recorded that the Chorus of Furies in Aeschylus' Eumenides was so
terrifying that when they appeared on stage, women had miscarriages and y=
oung
boys died of fright right there in the theatre.  Not even Shakespeare got=

reviews like that.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:11:35 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      winter....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

'solitary player'

'not -3...-15'

'barefoot in

wooden shoes'

to quote zizek

woowffuscnud



3:00....XXXXX...DRN...
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:15:19 -0500
Reply-To:     nudel-soho@mindspring.com
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harry Nudel 
Subject:      Fortress St. Mark's....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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jews gentiles
cecil taylor
in buckskin...

jezuz, eddie
let the people in...



just another pain in the ass...drn...
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:46:14 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: Fortress St. Mark's....
Comments: To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

who's eddie noodlesyou mean anselm?

no room to let the people in the gates of eden were overtaken??
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:37:48 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned? spelling (spelling?) repaired etc
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response

Jon

That's interesting about Aeschylus - that play -is that part of the Orestian
Cycle?  - I think that - as plays - with the choruses or chori -
the effect could be dramatic  -
I heard a long talk about the one and only opera by  Enesco (I think that is
the spelling of his name) (he knew/taught Yehudi Menuhin) called "Oedipus" I
think - but at the end of this talk - which was fascinating - they didn't
play it! And I cant find it anywhere... But I can imagine that being a great
play -especially if one knew Greek - that is, if it was in one's own
language...

Euripides's play about Dionysus would be great to see also - I once saw a
production of Lysistrata - done well - it was very funny.
-----------------------------------------------------
Robin etal

On my magnum opus re Shakespeare ....For the record some selling error fixed
etc

The questions are did he mean that W.S. :

[Various questions or matters arising] The it should have been:

There are further possibilties - 'Shake-scene'  (obscene  implied in their
also?) is clever - in fact could the whole thing not  have been written by
Shakespear himself? In conjuntion with Greene etal who actually admired WS
and this was an opportunity for some propaganda for Bill? And we have lost
the rest? The follow ups...

[A reference to Mc Jackson - Shakespearian expert]

 But surely it is resolved by the old chestnut :  "Shakespear's plays were
not written by Shakespeare but by another person of the same name"  !!?

 The riddle of Shakespeare  is further deepened by the fact that Shakespear
clearly didnt know who he was himself, as he spelt his own name in several
different ways!

 Shakespeare - it is strange how this incredible genius of words appears out
of nothing and tells of everything radiating throughout time including the
nothing.

 Richard Taylor
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin Hamilton" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:29 AM
> Subject: Re: Shakespeare panned?
>
>
>>> - but I dont think that Robert Greene is realy criticising
>>> Shakespeare the poet/playwrite - he is just seeing a rival and is
>> jealous...
>>>
>>> Richard Taylor
>>
>> It's worth looking at what Bob Grumman says in "Upstart Crow" (in the URL
>> I
>> gave) -- he thoroughly unteases the passage.
>>
>> Robin
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>>
>>
>



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 07:13:31 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Al Filreis 
Subject:      Roger Angell by live webcast
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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                        "[I]t seems possible that we have come to a time
                        when it no longer matters so much what the caring
                        is about, how frail or foolish is the object of
                        that concern, as long as the feeling itself can be
                        saved. Naivete--the infantile and ignoble joy in
                        the middle of the night over the haphazardous
                        flight of a distant ball--seems a small price to
                        pay for such a gift." - Roger Angell


ROGER ANGELL at the KELLY WRITERS HOUSE

join us by live webcast

----------------------------------------------------------------------

the Kelly Writers House Fellows program presents

Roger Angell

10:30 AM (eastern time)
Tuesday, February 8

a conversation (with audience Q&A) conducted by Al Filreis

To participate via webcast, simply rsvp to: << whfellow@writing.upenn.edu >>

Anyone with a computer and an internet connection can participate.
Participants in the webcast will be able to interact with Mr. Angell by
email or telephone. For more information about the Kelly Writers House
webcast series, see

              http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/

Those who rsvp will receive further instructions.

For more about Roger Angell, see:

                http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~whfellow/angell.html

Kelly Writers House
3805 Locust Walk
University of Pennsylvania
215 573-WRIT
www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Writers House Fellows 2005:

                          ROGER ANGELL - February 7-8

                          E. L. DOCTOROW - March 21-22

                          ADRIENNE RICH - April 18-19

and                       LYN HEJINIAN - February 21-22 (rescheduled from '04)


                http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~whfellow/

Writers House Fellows events are free and open to the public--at the Kelly
Writers House, 3805 Locust Walk, University of Pennsylvania. For more
information, write to << whfellow@writing.upenn.edu >>.

                        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

                                        Writers House Fellows is made
                                        possible by a generous grant
                                        from Paul Kelly.

                                        previous Writers House Fellows:

                                        Russell Banks           2004
                                        Lyn Hejinian
                                        James Alan McPherson
                                        Susan Sontag            2003
                                        Walter Bernstein
                                        Laurie Anderson
                                        John Ashbery            2002
                                        Charles Fuller
                                        Michael Cunningham
                                        June Jordan             2001
                                        David Sedaris
                                        Tony Kushner
                                        Grace Paley             2000
                                        Robert Creeley
                                        John Edgar Wideman
                                        Gay Talese              1999


   recordings of live webcasts featuring the Fellows can be found here:

                http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:27:01 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      Fwd: FELLOWSHIP OPPORTUNITIES
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>Dear Madam/Sir,
>
>Please see the announcement below for fellowships at the Five College
>Women's Studies Research (USA) for 2005-2006.
>
>With kind regards,
>Ms T. Oorschot
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>FELLOWSHIP OPPORTUNITIES
>
>FIVE COLLEGE WOMEN=92S STUDIES RESEARCH CENTER
>A collaborative project of Amherst, Hampshire, Mount Holyoke, and Smith
>Colleges and the University of Massachusetts, Amherst
>
>The Center invites applications for its RESEARCH ASSOCIATESHIPS for
>2005-2006 from scholars and teachers at all levels of the educational
>system, as well as from artists, community organizers and political
>activists, both local and international. Associates are provided with
>offices in our spacious facility, library privileges, and the collegiality
>of a diverse community of feminists.
>Research Associate applications are accepted for either a semester or the
>academic year. The Center supports projects in all disciplines so long as
>they focus centrally on women or gender.
>Regular Research Associateships are non-stipendiary. We accept about 15
>Research Associates per year. International applicants may also apply for
>one of the two one-semester FORD ASSOCIATESHIPS for Fall 2005 or Spring
>2006, which offer a stipend of $12,000, plus a $3,000 housing/travel
>allowance in return for teaching (in English) one undergraduate course in
>the Women's Studies Program at the University of Massachusetts or the Women
>and Gender Studies Department at Amherst College.
>
>UMass and Amherst College seek a total of two experienced researchers and
>teachers to strengthen their undergraduate curriculum and, in the case of
>the university, to complement their graduate program.
>
>For Fall 2005, the University of Massachusetts seeks a researcher with
>expertise in the Middle East or Latin America with an emphasis on
>globalization, transnational studies or postcolonial studies. Research
>should focus on gender, race, ethnicity, class and sexuality within the
>context of globalization. Candidates whose work crosses traditional academi=
c
>boundaries preferred.
>
>For Fall 2005 or Spring 2006, Amherst College seeks a researcher who is als=
o
>an experienced teacher and who works on the Middle East, Latin America, Asi=
a
>or Africa with expertise in the field of gender in the media especially in
>the context of war and civil unrest. Ford Associates need not be studying
>their own region of origin.
>
>Applicants for both programs should submit a project proposal (up to 4
>pages), curriculum vitae, two letters of reference, and application cover
>sheet. In addition, Ford applicants should submit a two-page description of
>a women=92s studies course they are prepared to teach, which includes their
>pedagogical goals and techniques.
>
>Submit all applications to:
>Five College Women=92s Studies Research Center,
>Mount Holyoke College,
>50 College Street,
>South Hadley,
>MA 01075-6406
>USA
>
>Deadline: February 14, 2005.
>
>For further information, contact the Center at:
>TEL 413.538.2275
>FAX 413.538.3121
>email: fcwsrc@fivecolleges.edu,
>website: http://www.fivecolleges.edu/sites/fcwsrc
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>*********************************************
>Nederlandse Onderzoekschool Vrouwenstudies
>Netherlands Research School of Women's Studies
>Muntstraat 2A, 3512 EV UTRECHT, The Netherlands
>Tel: +31 (0) 30 - 253 6001
>Fax: +31 (0) 30 - 253 6134
>nov@let.uu.nl  ---  www.let.uu.nl/nov


--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 09:28:28 -0500
Reply-To:     Anastasios Kozaitis 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Anastasios Kozaitis 
Subject:      Re: WS and the ancients
In-Reply-To:  <729JaAaNj4336S07.1106800630@uwdvg001.cms.usa.net>
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This is a joke, right?


On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:37:10 -0800, Jon Corelis  wrote:
> >>I cant read Greek but - does anyone think that any of say
> >>Sophocles,Aeschylus, Euripidies, Aristophenies etc are in the same >>league
> as Shakespeare?
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:34:09 -0500
Reply-To:     rumblek@bellsouth.net
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ken Rumble 
Subject:      Lucifer Poetics Group Reading: Saturday, January 29th,
              Chapel Hill, NC
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Please spread far and wide:

Goat's Head Productions is pleased to present:

The Lucifer Poetics Group
(a North Carolina based group of poets)
Reading selections of their work.

The reading is scheduled for this Saturday,
January 29th, at 8pm.  The reading will be
held at Pane & Vino in downtown Chapel Hill
on Franklin Street.

Reading will be

Tony Tost, Randall Williams, E. V. Noechel,
Ken Rumble, Marcus Slease, Eden Osucha, Todd
Sandvik, Tessa Joseph, Brian Howe, Tanya
Olson, and the premiere of Fish.

Come one, come all!

For more information about the Lucifer
Poetics Group, visit:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/lucipo
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 11:37:00 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Pierre Joris 
Subject:      Re: Lodz Ghetto
In-Reply-To:  <20050125204022.32295e53@localhost.localdomain>
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alas, only for those who can read French, here is a most interesting=20
interview on the Shoah (and its images & representations) with Jean-Luc=20=

Nancy, from today's Le Monde:

Sur la Shoah, "il y a des images de voyeurs et des images-regards"
LE MONDE | 27.01.05 | 15h10
Un entretien avec Jean-Luc Nancy, philosophe.

Alors que la c=E9l=E9bration du 60e anniversaire de la lib=E9ration des =
camps=20
de la mort nazis vient reposer la question de leur impossible=20
repr=E9sentation (voir "Le Monde Radio-T=E9l=E9vision" dat=E9 23-24 =
janvier),=20
le philosophe Jean-Luc Nancy analyse la profusion d'images (expositions=20=

de photos, documentaires, fictions.  ..) =E0 laquelle ces c=E9r=E9monies=20=

donnent lieu.

Que vous inspire l'actuelle d=E9ferlante d'images qui tentent de montrer=20=

"l'inimaginable" ?

Rien de particulier. Il est normal que les images prolif=E8rent : il n'y=20=

a aucune raison de les rejeter, il ne s'agit pas d'=EAtre iconoclaste,=20=

mais d'interroger, chaque fois, la nature de l'image : est-ce qu'elle=20
"sature"? est-ce qu'elle =E9puise un sens, ou non ? Un film comme La=20
Liste de Schindler =E9puise son sens, le Shoah de Lanzmann ne l'=E9puise=20=

pas.

Mais ce dernier n'est pas le seul film ni la seule image possibles. La=20=

question est celle de l'inscription dans l'image d'une ouverture, d'une=20=

non-compl=E9tude, d'un inimaginable. Il y a des images regards et des=20
images de voyeurs : les secondes veulent voir l'invisible. C'est la=20
pornographie, un vouloir-voir plut=F4t qu'un voir, un=20
vouloir-jouir-de-voir. Ainsi les images publi=E9es par Georges=20
Didi-Huberman (que certains ont critiqu=E9es) ne rel=E8vent pas du=20
voyeurisme, mais de l'effroi - qui est une forme du regard.

Dans un livre intitul=E9 Au fond des images (Galil=E9e, 2003), vous avez=20=

soulign=E9 cette contradiction qui "interdit" la repr=E9sentation=20
d'Auschwitz : si la r=E9alit=E9 des camps est impossible =E0 mettre en =
image,=20
dites-vous, c'est qu'ils ont eux-m=EAmes mis en sc=E8ne "l'ex=E9cution =
sans=20
reste de la repr=E9sentation". Qu'entendez-vous par l=E0 ?

Les camps sont une machine =E0 repr=E9sentation : le nazi s'y donne le=20=

spectacle de sa toute-puissance et de l'absolue d=E9ch=E9ance qu'elle a=20=

fabriqu=E9e comme sa contre-image.

C'est une "surrepr=E9sentation", dont on ne peut tenter la =
repr=E9sentation=20
sans risquer ou bien d'en =E9pouser le mouvement de jouissance, ou bien=20=

d'en perdre l'objet m=EAme. On peut dire aussi : la "surrepr=E9sentation"=20=

du camp (dont la rampe d'arriv=E9e ou la place d'appel au matin sont les=20=

sc=E8nes sympt=F4males) est une repr=E9sentation pleine, satur=E9e : =
tout y est=20
dit, tout y est pr=E9sent, aucune ligne de fuite ne s'=E9chappe vers une=20=

absence plus importante que la pr=E9sence. C'est exactement ce que notre=20=

pens=E9e gr=E9co-monoth=E9iste d=E9signe comme "idol=E2trie". Le nazisme =
est=20
l'auto-idol=E2trie absolue.

"Montrer les images les plus terribles est toujours possible, mais=20
montrer ce qui tue toute possibilit=E9 d'image est impossible, sauf =E0=20=

refaire le geste du meurtrier", =E9crivez-vous. Sous des dehors=20
ang=E9liques, la p=E9dagogie de la m=E9moire viendrait-elle donc rejouer =
la=20
sc=E8ne de l'extermination ?

La m=E9moire est =E0 traiter comme l'image : ou bien elle fige et sature =
un=20
pass=E9 dans un "pr=E9sent" intemporel, et c'est tant=F4t une m=E9lancolie=
 sans=20
appel (pour celui qui se souvient), tant=F4t une abstraction pure (pour=20=

le plus jeune dont ce n'est pas la m=E9moire) ; ou bien elle est un =
acte,=20
une mobilisation du pr=E9sent vivant, et c'est autre chose. Cette =
m=E9moire=20
se passe de "souvenirs": l'=E9preuve du pass=E9 y informe l'exp=E9rience =
du=20
pr=E9sent. Il s'agit moins de dire "quelle horreur !" que de demander ce=20=

qui l'a rendue possible, et pourquoi "le ventre est toujours f=E9cond,=20=

d'o=F9 sortit la b=EAte immonde" comme l'=E9crit Brecht.

Dans la comm=E9moration visuelle de la Shoah, faut-il soup=E7onner une=20=

"volont=E9 de couler dans le bronze (le b=E9ton ou le film)" une =
barbarie=20
pr=E9sent=E9e comme r=E9volue, alors m=EAme que, dites-vous, "le monde =
qui a=20
fait Auschwitz est toujours notre monde"...

Ce monde, en effet, est le monde d'une histoire cass=E9e (et non "finie"=20=

!) : l'Allemagne et l'Europe des ann=E9es 1930 sentaient se rompre=20
l'histoire de l'Occident triomphant, de sa conqu=EAte du monde et du=20
savoir, de la ma=EEtrise d'un progr=E8s. Auschwitz peut =EAtre entendu =
comme=20
le cri forcen=E9 d'une volont=E9 d'aller au bout de la rupture pour tout=20=

"r=E9g=E9n=E9rer". La r=E9g=E9n=E9ration a pourri dans le charnier, mais =
l'histoire=20
aussi est rest=E9e suspendue.

Il y a toujours le risque de vouloir arraisonner une destination=20
ultime, une valeur supr=EAme... Il faut surtout refuser de croire que=20
nous aurions "raison". Il faut remettre la "raison" elle-m=EAme en=20
chantier. Les terribles photos venues de prisons militaires en Irak=20
forment =E0 leur tour des repr=E9sentations satur=E9es (m=EAme dans leur=20=

caract=E8re sans doute accidentel ou marginal, sans la volont=E9=20
syst=E9matique des camps) : n'importe quel d=E9mocrate ordinaire peut du=20=

jour au lendemain devenir le voyeur d'une toute-puissance=20
fantasmatique. La prise de photos est aussi importante que les actes=20
photographi=E9s : on veut se voir jouissant de voir l'effet de sa=20
puissance. Cela suppose une formidable impuissance, qui n'est pas celle=20=

des individus, mais d'une culture, d'une civilisation, d'une histoire -=20=

les n=F4tres. Car je ne veux surtout pas induire une stigmatisation - de=20=

l'Am=E9rique ou de qui que ce soit - qui ferait pendant =E0 celle par=20
laquelle nous condamnons l'ordre SS.

Plus que jamais la question doit =EAtre : comment cela est-il possible ?=20=

Ce n'est pas parce qu'il y a du monstre dans l'homme (ce qui fut=20
toujours vrai), mais c'est parce que l'"homme" ne nous donne plus la=20
mesure de rien. A quoi ou par quoi faut-il mesurer l'homme ? Pascal=20
=E9crit que "l'homme passe infiniment l'homme" : voil=E0 ce qu'une image=20=

doit donner =E0 pressentir. La toute-puissance est un mauvais infini, =
une=20
caricature, une image satur=E9e.

Propos recueillis par Jean Birnbaum
  ___________________________________________________________

  Always keep the tempo -- Steve Lacy
  ___________________________________________________________
  Pierre Joris
  244 Elm Street=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
  Albany NY 12210=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
  h: 518 426 0433=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
  c: 518 225 7123=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
  o: 518 442 40 85=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
  email: joris@albany.edu
http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
  ____________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:38:22 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         ANDREWS@FORDHAM.EDU
Subject:      Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 16:12:18 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      ARK?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

hi all:
has Brathwaite's ARK been published yet and if so by whom?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:38:44 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Eric Elshtain 
Subject:      New Beard of Bees Press Gnoetry Chapbook
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Beard of Bees Press is pleased to announce the publication of our latest
chapbook: "The Most Effective Dress" by Eric Elshtain and Gnoetry.

To read this chapbook and learn more about the authors, go to:
http://www.beardofbees.com/elshtain.html
http://www.beardofbees.com/gnoetry.html

For a complete list of Beard of Bees publications, go to:
http://www.beardofbees.com/publications.html



_______________________________________________
BoB-announce mailing list
BoB-announce@beardofbees.com
http://lists.beardofbees.com/mailman/listinfo/bob-announce
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:37:37 -0500
Reply-To:     Ron Silliman 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ron Silliman 
Subject:      Paris Review Sacks Editor
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage3.asp
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:39:31 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Gloria Frym 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
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I second the motion.

Gloria Frym
Writing & Literature Program, MFA Writing Program
California College of the Arts



On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:38:22 -0500
  ANDREWS@FORDHAM.EDU wrote:
>
>
>
>
>Since many of us receive the Poetics list in digest form
>and many of those who do express occasional grumpiness
>about  the list getting crammed with poems (and other
>creative self-publishing projects) — and being told, upon
>the reception of such grumpiness, 'hey, just use the delete
>button', I was wondering if there might be some way of
>finessing this (so the digest-receivers don't have to
>constantly scroll through everything to find what they are
>looking for).
>
>Would it be possible — and desirable — to simply sort
>the digest into categories and have them in a predictable
>order?
>For my part, I could see
>1. Announcements
>2. Discussings, Comments, Queries
>3. Poems, algorithmic confections, etc.
>as separate categories
>and I could happily imagine them stacked in that order,
>rather than having categories of things that people would
>want to scroll through being veined throughout the digest
>in a way that requires going through the entirety looking
>for what you want to read.
>
>Curious to know what others thought.
>Cheers,
>Bruce Andrews
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:34:54 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "Hoerman, Michael A" 
Subject:      blog topics: visual poetry, walking poetry,
              feedback on bashing B AP
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

New topics at Pornfeld:

-A deep image: visual poems, difficult poems
-Walking poems as metaphysical journeys rather than Paris city guides
-Alberto Romero Bermo and Andrew Varnon respond to my neuroeconomics of poetry
communities post (aka bashing BAP)


http://pornfeld.blogspot.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:03:07 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Murat Nemet-Nejat 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

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bGV0ZQo+ID5idXR0b24nLCBJIHdhcyB3b25kZXJpbmcgaWYgdGhlcmUgbWlnaHQgYmUgc29t
ZSB3YXkgb2YKPiA+ZmluZXNzaW5nIHRoaXMgKHNvIHRoZSBkaWdlc3QtcmVjZWl2ZXJzIGRv
bid0IGhhdmUgdG8KPiA+Y29uc3RhbnRseSBzY3JvbGwgdGhyb3VnaCBldmVyeXRoaW5nIHRv
IGZpbmQgd2hhdCB0aGV5IGFyZQo+ID5sb29raW5nIGZvcikuCj4gPgo+ID5Xb3VsZCBpdCBi
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Cj4gPm9yZGVyPwo+ID5Gb3IgbXkgcGFydCwgSSBjb3VsZCBzZWUKPiA+MS4gQW5ub3VuY2Vt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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:11:44 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Fw:
Comments: To: Acousticlv@aol.com, AdeenaKarasick@cs.com, AGosfield@aol.com,
          Akpoem2@aol.com, alonech@acedsl.com, Altjazz@aol.com, amirib@aol.com,
          Amramdavid@aol.com, AnselmBerrigan@aol.com, Barrywal23@aol.com,
          bdlilrbt@icqmail.com, CarolynMcClairPR@aol.com, CaseyCyr@aol.com,
          CHASEMANHATTAN1@aol.com, DEEPOP@aol.com, DianeSpodarek@aol.com,
          Djmomo17@aol.com, Dsegnini1216@aol.com, ekayani@mindspring.com,
          flint@artphobia.com, ftgreene@juno.com, Gfjacq@aol.com,
          hillary@filmforum.org, Hooker99@aol.com,
          jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com, Jeromesala@aol.com, JillSR@aol.com,
          JoeLobell@cs.com, JohnLHagen@aol.com, kather8@katherinearnoldi.com,
          Kevtwi@aol.com, LakiVaz@aol.com, Lisevachon@aol.com, nooyawk@att.net,
          Nuyopoman@AOL.COM, Pedevski@aol.com, pom2@pompompress.com,
          Rabinart@aol.com, Rcmorgan12@aol.com, reggiedw@comcast.net,
          RichKostelanetz@aol.com, RnRBDN@aol.com, SHoltje@aol.com,
          Smutmonke@aol.com, sprygypsy@yahoo.com, Sumnirv@aol.com,
          velasquez@nyc.com, VITORICCI@aol.com, zeblw@aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Saturday January 29th 6:00-9pm $5 donation

Steve Dalachinsky & Yuko Otomo – poetry & Frederico Ughi – percussion
plus  spin 17
@ Tribes gallery
285 East 3rd St, 2nd Floor (btwn Avenues C and D) ::  F train to 2nd
Avenue or 6 train to Bleecker Street
Tel: (212) 674-8262 or 674-3778   Fax: (212) 674-5576 E-mail:
info@tribes.org
Interns and readers needed for blind professor =check out our web site at
www. tribes.org/

Currently showing @ Tribes
OTHER DIMENSIONS OF ABSTRACT ART
 Showing January 8th –  February 5th  2005
 at Gallery OneTwentyEight and  at Tribes Gallery
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 23:14:38 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         mIEKAL aND 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  <2b.6b7aa821.2f2b218b@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553)
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I'd put myself in that elite club as well.  But it's not just the
poetics list I use to vent my algorithmic confections.  I approach all
lists as a filter to write into | through | around  even other
non-poetry lists I'm on like north american fruit explorers,
learn_romanian, african grey parrots ....

~mIEKAL


On Thursday, January 27, 2005, at 11:03 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote:

> I think inconvenience is an integral part of an open discussion. On my
> part, that's why I don't use the digest format. I like the occasional
> surprise, though I share Bruce's implied ambivalence about using the
> list as a venue for poetry.
> I must admit for Alan S. and Harry N. the list is an extension of
> their poetry.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:13:22 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Peter Quartermain 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

I'm not a Digest user, but yes! sounds like a great idea -- if it can be
worked out, yes.

Peter

=======================================
"It's no disgrace to come from Texas;
 it's just a disgrace to have to go back there."
Kinky Friedman.
The Prisoner of Vandam Street.
 =======================================
Peter Quartermain
846   Keefer Street
Vancouver      B.C.
Canada    V6A 1Y7

voice 604 255 8274
fax     604 255 8204
quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca
=======================================

-----Original Message-----
From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On
Behalf Of ANDREWS@FORDHAM.EDU
Sent: 27-January-2005 12:38 PM
To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Digest restructuring





Since many of us receive the Poetics list in digest form
and many of those who do express occasional grumpiness
about  the list getting crammed with poems (and other
creative self-publishing projects) - and being told, upon
the reception of such grumpiness, 'hey, just use the delete
button', I was wondering if there might be some way of
finessing this (so the digest-receivers don't have to
constantly scroll through everything to find what they are
looking for).

Would it be possible - and desirable - to simply sort
the digest into categories and have them in a predictable
order?
For my part, I could see
1. Announcements
2. Discussings, Comments, Queries
3. Poems, algorithmic confections, etc.
as separate categories
and I could happily imagine them stacked in that order,
rather than having categories of things that people would
want to scroll through being veined throughout the digest
in a way that requires going through the entirety looking
for what you want to read.

Curious to know what others thought.
Cheers,
Bruce Andrews
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:18:57 +1100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Pam Brown 
Subject:      Re: POETICS Digest - restructure
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Dear Poetics Listees,
Yes - I'd welcome a change like the one suggested.

(I've also been a bit irritated by the posts that
aren't trimmed before being sent as a reply - that can
be annoying on a digest. But I guess that's harder to
change)

Best wishes,
Pam


Date:    Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:39:31 -0800
From:    Gloria Frym 
Subject: Re: Digest restructuring

I second the motion.

Gloria Frym
Writing & Literature Program, MFA Writing Program
California College of the Arts



On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:38:22 -0500
  ANDREWS@FORDHAM.EDU wrote:
>
>
>
>
>Since many of us receive the Poetics list in digest
form
>and many of those who do express occasional
grumpiness
>about  the list getting crammed with poems (and other
>creative self-publishing projects) — and being
told, upon
>the reception of such grumpiness, 'hey, just use the
delete
>button', I was wondering if there might be some way
of
>finessing this (so the digest-receivers don't have to
>constantly scroll through everything to find what
they are
>looking for).
>
>Would it be possible — and desirable — to simply
sort
>the digest into categories and have them in a
predictable
>order?
>For my part, I could see
>1. Announcements
>2. Discussings, Comments, Queries
>3. Poems, algorithmic confections, etc.
>as separate categories
>and I could happily imagine them stacked in that
order,
>rather than having categories of things that people
would
>want to scroll through being veined throughout the
digest
>in a way that requires going through the entirety
looking
>for what you want to read.
>
>Curious to know what others thought.
>Cheers,
>Bruce Andrews



=====
Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
http://au.movies.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:17:29 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

me too murat  and thanks for coming to my reading yesterday
dalachinsky



dalachinsky and yuko otomo
read
with drummer federico ughi
and ed chang w/ spin 12
jan29th sat. at 6 pm at tribes gallery
285 e 3rd st 2nd fl in manhattamn between c& d
donation
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:18:19 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8; reply-type=original

I don't use the digest - but if an "implied ambivalence " can be assumed
towards using this as a way of getting one's poetry seen - then to me that
sounds like elitism and preciousness - we should be looking at poetry and
discussing it: especially as it comes on - is not poetics also the practice
of writing poetry? - there are hundreds of announcements (are announcements
poetics? - I think that the mix of all these 'texts' is kind of ongoing
poem/poetics, or could be thus seen)) - all very good  - and sometimes
offers for jobs -

 but insufficient élan on here - no warmth to new people such as Jon who
tried to get a discussion going re the nature of poetry  - not enough
tolerance - surprise - yes - that's good - that thing by McGee was maybe
disturbing somewhat and I found it puzzling

(it seemed to be 'unconnected' - almost 'absentminded', as if the writer had
misplaced several millions of people somewhere between 1939 and 1945,
quoting Heidegger the ex-nazi who -while being interesting and quite poetic
in his writings - is rather a muddled thinker at the best of times: though I
do like his thing on Van Gogh's shoes, I suppose, though... but at least it
sparked a few responses - and he followed it up with some interesting or
more interesting gobbledygook - but therein, paradoxically, lay its
interest, in its coming from 'nowhere' or seeming to - its surprise)

 and also it was maybe at bad time - but at least the guy was trying to get
his teeth into an issue - probably the most important issue of the 20th
Century and still greatly important -  there is  - or the paranoid in me
feels there is -a kind of fussy elite group of lurkers who wait until they
can talk gobbledygook, and others who fire off sudden sparks of sarcastics -
and sometimes incomprehensible comments - very little warmth - hardly any
encouragment - no - mix the poetry amongst the other stuff - let it disturb
or challenge - I think that Nudel, Alan, Jeff Harris and August and others
are challenging and frightening the inner sanctum of the Lang Party with
their poems of various styles...

But I could be completely wrong - Bruce may just like order - and we all are
both attracted and repelled by chaos - to survive in the random fire we need
lakes of order.

But to me the implication of poems onto here - as one avenue - shows the way
(or a way) that a writer can move from the traditional outlets ("official"
publications etc) - perhaps the poems need to be followed up with serious
discussions -  there isn't that much poetry on here - it is unfortunate that
a lot of discussion goes off onto tangents leaving others out and or
responses are limp, sometimes disinterested.

But there are also good responses and there have been some very interesting
discussions on here also. Let us be mixed.


Richard Taylor

Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile:

----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice
cream."------------------

Aspect Books
(N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: Digest restructuring


>I think inconvenience is an integral part of an open discussion. On my
>part,
> that's why I don't use the digest format. I like the occasional surprise,
> though I share Bruce's implied ambivalence about using the list as a venue
> for
> poetry.
>
> I must admit for Alan S. and Harry N. the list is an extension of their
> poetry.
>
> Murat
>
>
>
> For Al
> In a message dated 01/27/05 8:33:16 PM, gfrym@CCA.EDU writes:
>
>
>> second the motion.
>>
>> Gloria Frym
>> Writing & Literature Program, MFA Writing Program
>> California College of the Arts
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:38:22 -0500
>> ANDREWS@FORDHAM.EDU wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Since many of us receive the Poetics list in digest form
>> >and many of those who do express occasional grumpiness
>> >about the list getting crammed with poems (and other
>> >creative self-publishing projects) — and being told, upon
>> >the reception of such grumpiness, 'hey, just use the delete
>> >button', I was wondering if there might be some way of
>> >finessing this (so the digest-receivers don't have to
>> >constantly scroll through everything to find what they are
>> >looking for).
>> >
>> >Would it be possible — and desirable — to simply sort
>> >the digest into categories and have them in a predictable
>> >order?
>> >For my part, I could see
>> >1. Announcements
>> >2. Discussings, Comments, Queries
>> >3. Poems, algorithmic confections, etc.
>> >as separate categories
>> >and I could happily imagine them stacked in that order,
>> >rather than having categories of things that people would
>> >want to scroll through being veined throughout the digest
>> >in a way that requires going through the entirety looking
>> >for what you want to read.
>> >
>> >Curious to know what others thought.
>> >Cheers,
>> >Bruce Andrews
>>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005



--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:44:18 +0100
Reply-To:     Malcolm Davidson 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Malcolm Davidson 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  <2b.6b7aa821.2f2b218b@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:03:07 EST, Murat Nemet-Nejat  wrote:
> I like the occasional surprise, though I share Bruce's implied ambivalence
> about using the list as a venue for poetry.

I'm with that.

Malcolm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 04:58:19 -0700
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jonathan Penton 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  <3dfe832305012803441ad9af22@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Malcolm Davidson wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:03:07 EST, Murat Nemet-Nejat  wrote:
>
>
>>I like the occasional surprise, though I share Bruce's implied ambivalence
>>about using the list as a venue for poetry.
>>
>>
>
>I'm with that.
>
>Malcolm
>
>
I disagree.

Which is an excellent reason for us to split things up by subject, I reckon.

--
Jonathan Penton
http://www.unlikelystories.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:27:30 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Tom Beckett 
Subject:      Interview with Thomas Fink
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Blogger's backing up and giving me fits, but my interview with Thomas Fink
should be up soon at:

http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:56:58 +0100
Reply-To:     Anny Ballardini 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Anny Ballardini 
Subject:      Re: Lodz Ghetto
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you Pierre,

I copied your article on my blog,
take care, Anny

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com=20
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome
The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admire=
rs.
Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky




On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 11:37:00 -0500, Pierre Joris  wrote:
> alas, only for those who can read French, here is a most interesting
> interview on the Shoah (and its images & representations) with Jean-Luc
> Nancy, from today's Le Monde:
>=20
> Sur la Shoah, "il y a des images de voyeurs et des images-regards"
> LE MONDE | 27.01.05 | 15h10
> Un entretien avec Jean-Luc Nancy, philosophe.
>=20
> Alors que la c=E9l=E9bration du 60e anniversaire de la lib=E9ration des c=
amps
> de la mort nazis vient reposer la question de leur impossible
> repr=E9sentation (voir "Le Monde Radio-T=E9l=E9vision" dat=E9 23-24 janvi=
er),
> le philosophe Jean-Luc Nancy analyse la profusion d'images (expositions
> de photos, documentaires, fictions.  ..) =E0 laquelle ces c=E9r=E9monies
> donnent lieu.
>=20
> Que vous inspire l'actuelle d=E9ferlante d'images qui tentent de montrer
> "l'inimaginable" ?
>=20
> Rien de particulier. Il est normal que les images prolif=E8rent : il n'y
> a aucune raison de les rejeter, il ne s'agit pas d'=EAtre iconoclaste,
> mais d'interroger, chaque fois, la nature de l'image : est-ce qu'elle
> "sature"? est-ce qu'elle =E9puise un sens, ou non ? Un film comme La
> Liste de Schindler =E9puise son sens, le Shoah de Lanzmann ne l'=E9puise
> pas.
>=20
> Mais ce dernier n'est pas le seul film ni la seule image possibles. La
> question est celle de l'inscription dans l'image d'une ouverture, d'une
> non-compl=E9tude, d'un inimaginable. Il y a des images regards et des
> images de voyeurs : les secondes veulent voir l'invisible. C'est la
> pornographie, un vouloir-voir plut=F4t qu'un voir, un
> vouloir-jouir-de-voir. Ainsi les images publi=E9es par Georges
> Didi-Huberman (que certains ont critiqu=E9es) ne rel=E8vent pas du
> voyeurisme, mais de l'effroi - qui est une forme du regard.
>=20
> Dans un livre intitul=E9 Au fond des images (Galil=E9e, 2003), vous avez
> soulign=E9 cette contradiction qui "interdit" la repr=E9sentation
> d'Auschwitz : si la r=E9alit=E9 des camps est impossible =E0 mettre en im=
age,
> dites-vous, c'est qu'ils ont eux-m=EAmes mis en sc=E8ne "l'ex=E9cution sa=
ns
> reste de la repr=E9sentation". Qu'entendez-vous par l=E0 ?
>=20
> Les camps sont une machine =E0 repr=E9sentation : le nazi s'y donne le
> spectacle de sa toute-puissance et de l'absolue d=E9ch=E9ance qu'elle a
> fabriqu=E9e comme sa contre-image.
>=20
> C'est une "surrepr=E9sentation", dont on ne peut tenter la repr=E9sentati=
on
> sans risquer ou bien d'en =E9pouser le mouvement de jouissance, ou bien
> d'en perdre l'objet m=EAme. On peut dire aussi : la "surrepr=E9sentation"
> du camp (dont la rampe d'arriv=E9e ou la place d'appel au matin sont les
> sc=E8nes sympt=F4males) est une repr=E9sentation pleine, satur=E9e : tout=
 y est
> dit, tout y est pr=E9sent, aucune ligne de fuite ne s'=E9chappe vers une
> absence plus importante que la pr=E9sence. C'est exactement ce que notre
> pens=E9e gr=E9co-monoth=E9iste d=E9signe comme "idol=E2trie". Le nazisme =
est
> l'auto-idol=E2trie absolue.
>=20
> "Montrer les images les plus terribles est toujours possible, mais
> montrer ce qui tue toute possibilit=E9 d'image est impossible, sauf =E0
> refaire le geste du meurtrier", =E9crivez-vous. Sous des dehors
> ang=E9liques, la p=E9dagogie de la m=E9moire viendrait-elle donc rejouer =
la
> sc=E8ne de l'extermination ?
>=20
> La m=E9moire est =E0 traiter comme l'image : ou bien elle fige et sature =
un
> pass=E9 dans un "pr=E9sent" intemporel, et c'est tant=F4t une m=E9lancoli=
e sans
> appel (pour celui qui se souvient), tant=F4t une abstraction pure (pour
> le plus jeune dont ce n'est pas la m=E9moire) ; ou bien elle est un acte,
> une mobilisation du pr=E9sent vivant, et c'est autre chose. Cette m=E9moi=
re
> se passe de "souvenirs": l'=E9preuve du pass=E9 y informe l'exp=E9rience =
du
> pr=E9sent. Il s'agit moins de dire "quelle horreur !" que de demander ce
> qui l'a rendue possible, et pourquoi "le ventre est toujours f=E9cond,
> d'o=F9 sortit la b=EAte immonde" comme l'=E9crit Brecht.
>=20
> Dans la comm=E9moration visuelle de la Shoah, faut-il soup=E7onner une
> "volont=E9 de couler dans le bronze (le b=E9ton ou le film)" une barbarie
> pr=E9sent=E9e comme r=E9volue, alors m=EAme que, dites-vous, "le monde qu=
i a
> fait Auschwitz est toujours notre monde"...
>=20
> Ce monde, en effet, est le monde d'une histoire cass=E9e (et non "finie"
> !) : l'Allemagne et l'Europe des ann=E9es 1930 sentaient se rompre
> l'histoire de l'Occident triomphant, de sa conqu=EAte du monde et du
> savoir, de la ma=EEtrise d'un progr=E8s. Auschwitz peut =EAtre entendu co=
mme
> le cri forcen=E9 d'une volont=E9 d'aller au bout de la rupture pour tout
> "r=E9g=E9n=E9rer". La r=E9g=E9n=E9ration a pourri dans le charnier, mais =
l'histoire
> aussi est rest=E9e suspendue.
>=20
> Il y a toujours le risque de vouloir arraisonner une destination
> ultime, une valeur supr=EAme... Il faut surtout refuser de croire que
> nous aurions "raison". Il faut remettre la "raison" elle-m=EAme en
> chantier. Les terribles photos venues de prisons militaires en Irak
> forment =E0 leur tour des repr=E9sentations satur=E9es (m=EAme dans leur
> caract=E8re sans doute accidentel ou marginal, sans la volont=E9
> syst=E9matique des camps) : n'importe quel d=E9mocrate ordinaire peut du
> jour au lendemain devenir le voyeur d'une toute-puissance
> fantasmatique. La prise de photos est aussi importante que les actes
> photographi=E9s : on veut se voir jouissant de voir l'effet de sa
> puissance. Cela suppose une formidable impuissance, qui n'est pas celle
> des individus, mais d'une culture, d'une civilisation, d'une histoire -
> les n=F4tres. Car je ne veux surtout pas induire une stigmatisation - de
> l'Am=E9rique ou de qui que ce soit - qui ferait pendant =E0 celle par
> laquelle nous condamnons l'ordre SS.
>=20
> Plus que jamais la question doit =EAtre : comment cela est-il possible ?
> Ce n'est pas parce qu'il y a du monstre dans l'homme (ce qui fut
> toujours vrai), mais c'est parce que l'"homme" ne nous donne plus la
> mesure de rien. A quoi ou par quoi faut-il mesurer l'homme ? Pascal
> =E9crit que "l'homme passe infiniment l'homme" : voil=E0 ce qu'une image
> doit donner =E0 pressentir. La toute-puissance est un mauvais infini, une
> caricature, une image satur=E9e.
>=20
> Propos recueillis par Jean Birnbaum
>  ___________________________________________________________
>=20
>  Always keep the tempo -- Steve Lacy
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Pierre Joris
>  244 Elm Street          =20
>  Albany NY 12210          =20
>  h: 518 426 0433          =20
>  c: 518 225 7123                                              =20
>  o: 518 442 40 85                                              =20
>  email: joris@albany.edu
> http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
>  ____________________________________________________________
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:57:51 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Halvard Johnson 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  <2b.6b7aa821.2f2b218b@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Don't most mail-readers allow the grouping of
message by subject line? Maybe digest users
should consider using the tools they have at
hand to delete unwanted threads en masse.

Hal     "A poet is someone from whom nothing must be
            taken and to whom nothing must be given."
                         --Anna Akhmatova

Halvard Johnson
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
email: halvard@earthlink.net
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:10:54 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Nick Piombino 
Subject:      Nick Piombino's *fait accompli*
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

new and
recent on
http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com

"we must love one another
or die":  a mini-review of
Rupert Thomson's 1998
novel *soft!*

watching two blizzards:
weather overground
*weather underground*

new poem: *Who Owns the Words*

*taxi driver*: a photo-memoir

quotes from Cesare Pavese

lots of new links

come and visit!
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:13:56 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Michael Rothenberg 
Subject:      thanks and hello from Michael Rothenberg
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear list members,

A quick note of thanks to so many of you for the kindness and generosity =
you have shown towards me in the last couple of months. The house fire =
in Pacifica has pretty much turned my life upside down and kidnapped my =
brain. I am still in the middle of salvaging what I can from the mess =
and sorting through insurance and future residence questions. I am =
trying to get the next issue of Big Bridge up soon and continue the =
"Blue Poets in a Red State" project I began after the elections. =20

I am still looking for "Blue Poets in a Red State" participants from =
Alaska, Arkansas, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, =
Nebraska,Nevada, Oklahoma,South Carolina,South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, =
West Virginia, Wyoming, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Marianas =
Islands, and Guam. Please contact me at walterblue@bigbridge.org if you =
are from one of these states and would like to play.

Again thank you for your kind thoughts and beautiful books. Poetry =
Lives!

Michael Rothenberg
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:17:59 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         mIEKAL aND 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

We haven't heard from Lori E & the moderators but perhaps POETICS list
needs a bit of renovation to serve it's members in a more selective
way.  If the list was broken into three subcategories,

Poetics-Announcements

Poetics-Discussion

Poetics-Poetry

With each person having the option to sub to each of them individually
then the load of messages would be filtered to each user's mailbox in a
more ergonomic manner.  We obviously have the feeling that there are a
lot of folks on here who only use this as a vehicle for announcements,
so why make them delete thru tens of messages on a daily basis just to
hear what is happening at the Poetry Project.

This would also address Bruce's digest conundrum.


mIEKAL
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:32:57 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mairead Byrne 
Subject:      Re: thanks and hello from Michael Rothenberg
Comments: To: walterblue@EARTHLINK.NET
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

You said it Michael!

I can't believe you're building a Big Bridge out of it all.  It's going
be a terrific issue.
Mr. Crane would say: Ave!

Mairead

>>> walterblue@EARTHLINK.NET 01/28/05 10:13 AM >>>
Dear list members,

A quick note of thanks to so many of you for the kindness and generosity
you have shown towards me in the last couple of months. The house fire
in Pacifica has pretty much turned my life upside down and kidnapped my
brain. I am still in the middle of salvaging what I can from the mess
and sorting through insurance and future residence questions. I am
trying to get the next issue of Big Bridge up soon and continue the
"Blue Poets in a Red State" project I began after the elections.

I am still looking for "Blue Poets in a Red State" participants from
Alaska, Arkansas, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana,
Nebraska,Nevada, Oklahoma,South Carolina,South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah,
West Virginia, Wyoming, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Marianas
Islands, and Guam. Please contact me at walterblue@bigbridge.org if you
are from one of these states and would like to play.

Again thank you for your kind thoughts and beautiful books. Poetry
Lives!

Michael Rothenberg
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:37:35 +0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Roger Day 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

discussion is often/sometimes centred around announcements and poetry, so
you might bleed off a lot of the life-blood of this list if you split it
this way however I've a feeling that poetry is debated more than
announcements. Still, even with announcements, the potential for discussion
is there and I'm sure has arisen in the past.

I'd prefer that the potential for discussion is increased rather than
decreased and this is what you're doing when you artificially split the
list.

Also, I've noticed both Drn & Alan uses their poetry to comment on the
discussion, as well as add to it. Not easy to parse there, not sure that
I'd want to keep it out of my daily reading. For me, all three strands form
a cohesive whole to my daily scanning.

As an alternate proposal, maybe the *digest* could be filtered of
announcements. Given some agreement by postees with a subject line like:

Announcement: 

the offending emails could be automatically kept out of the digest. I can't
see that being onerous, particularly as announcees are often courteous in
their postings. Or a moderator could label stuff to be kept out of the
digest. Ditto poetry.

Roger




                      mIEKAL aND
                                    To:       POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
                      Sent by: UB Poetics        cc:
                      discussion group           Subject:  Re: Digest restructuring
                      


                      28/01/2005 15:17
                      Please respond to
                      UB Poetics
                      discussion group






We haven't heard from Lori E & the moderators but perhaps POETICS list
needs a bit of renovation to serve it's members in a more selective
way.  If the list was broken into three subcategories,

Poetics-Announcements

Poetics-Discussion

Poetics-Poetry

With each person having the option to sub to each of them individually
then the load of messages would be filtered to each user's mailbox in a
more ergonomic manner.  We obviously have the feeling that there are a
lot of folks on here who only use this as a vehicle for announcements,
so why make them delete thru tens of messages on a daily basis just to
hear what is happening at the Poetry Project.

This would also address Bruce's digest conundrum.


mIEKAL
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:42:59 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "David A. Kirschenbaum" 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

hi mIEKAL and all,

i've always thought of this list as a community, a place where i can hear about
a reading in L.A., problems a publisher is experiencing in Canada, and read work
from new poets from Australia. if, as you suggest mIEKAL, the list were divided
into three lists that'd be gone. could there be a way where people subscribe to
one list that is all three of yr suggested lists combined? sure. but then if
people wanted to over the period of a week post a separate item to each of the
three lists they'd have to be addressing three lists, not one. something simple
that could be done would be to have each poster put your one word categories
before there posts--announcements, discussion, poetry--and then people could
sort their email and read and delete accordingly.

and, as i backchanneled bruce, digest subscribers could alleviate their problems
by opening a separate list-only account where they receive the posts
individually. then just look at them the same time each day and you'll have a
24-hr digest that's sortable and where individual posts could be easily
deleted, without them popping up on yr main account throughout the day.

best,
david

--
David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher
Boog City
330 W.28th St., Suite 6H
NY, NY 10001-4754
T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664)
F: (212) 842-2429
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:51:11 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  <8239A790-70EB-11D9-B3D5-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

ditto ditto

At 11:14 PM -0600 1/27/05, mIEKAL aND wrote:
>I'd put myself in that elite club as well.  But it's not just the
>poetics list I use to vent my algorithmic confections.  I approach all
>lists as a filter to write into | through | around  even other
>non-poetry lists I'm on like north american fruit explorers,
>learn_romanian, african grey parrots ....
>
>~mIEKAL
>
>
>On Thursday, January 27, 2005, at 11:03 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote:
>
>>I think inconvenience is an integral part of an open discussion. On my
>>part, that's why I don't use the digest format. I like the occasional
>>surprise, though I share Bruce's implied ambivalence about using the
>>list as a venue for poetry.
>>I must admit for Alan S. and Harry N. the list is an extension of
>>their poetry.


--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:16:07 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Pierre Joris 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I agree with Marias' ditto, mIEKAL's grey parrots,  Murat's open=20
discussion & Hal's incitements towards tool use -- I love the mess of=20
the list -- maybe due my own messy collage/decollage brain & have never=20=

liked "digests" -- readers or online-readers -- the strength of the=20
poetics list has been exactly the heterogeneity of the sendings --

Pierre


On Jan 28, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Maria Damon wrote:

> ditto ditto
>
> At 11:14 PM -0600 1/27/05, mIEKAL aND wrote:
>> I'd put myself in that elite club as well.  But it's not just the
>> poetics list I use to vent my algorithmic confections.  I approach =
all
>> lists as a filter to write into | through | around  even other
>> non-poetry lists I'm on like north american fruit explorers,
>> learn_romanian, african grey parrots ....
>>
>> ~mIEKAL
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 27, 2005, at 11:03 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote:
>>
>>> I think inconvenience is an integral part of an open discussion. On=20=

>>> my
>>> part, that's why I don't use the digest format. I like the =
occasional
>>> surprise, though I share Bruce's implied ambivalence about using the
>>> list as a venue for poetry.
>>> I must admit for Alan S. and Harry N. the list is an extension of
>>> their poetry.
>
>
> --
>
>
  ___________________________________________________________

  Always keep the tempo -- Steve Lacy
  ___________________________________________________________
  Pierre Joris
  244 Elm Street=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
  Albany NY 12210=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
  h: 518 426 0433=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
  c: 518 225 7123=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
  o: 518 442 40 85=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
  email: joris@albany.edu
http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
  ____________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:43:02 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Nick Piombino 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Ah, the wayward wonders of poetry.

Now, what to do with those
pesky poets?.


Nick


On 1/28/05 11:16 AM, "Pierre Joris"  wrote:

> I agree with Marias' ditto, mIEKAL's grey parrots,  Murat's open
> discussion & Hal's incitements towards tool use -- I love the mess of
> the list -- maybe due my own messy collage/decollage brain & have never
> liked "digests" -- readers or online-readers -- the strength of the
> poetics list has been exactly the heterogeneity of the sendings --
>=20
> Pierre
>=20
>=20
> On Jan 28, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Maria Damon wrote:
>=20
>> ditto ditto
>>=20
>> At 11:14 PM -0600 1/27/05, mIEKAL aND wrote:
>>> I'd put myself in that elite club as well.  But it's not just the
>>> poetics list I use to vent my algorithmic confections.  I approach all
>>> lists as a filter to write into | through | around  even other
>>> non-poetry lists I'm on like north american fruit explorers,
>>> learn_romanian, african grey parrots ....
>>>=20
>>> ~mIEKAL
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Thursday, January 27, 2005, at 11:03 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> I think inconvenience is an integral part of an open discussion. On
>>>> my
>>>> part, that's why I don't use the digest format. I like the occasional
>>>> surprise, though I share Bruce's implied ambivalence about using the
>>>> list as a venue for poetry.
>>>> I must admit for Alan S. and Harry N. the list is an extension of
>>>> their poetry.
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>>=20
>>=20
> ___________________________________________________________
>=20
> Always keep the tempo -- Steve Lacy
> ___________________________________________________________
> Pierre Joris
> 244 Elm Street=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
> Albany NY 12210=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
> h: 518 426 0433=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
> c: 518 225 7123=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
> o: 518 442 40 85=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
> email: joris@albany.edu
> http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
> ____________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:56:28 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Maria Damon 
Subject:      Fwd: Re: Digest restructuring
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

fwd from mIEKAL:

>X-From_: dtv@mwt.net Fri Jan 28 10:24:44 2005
>X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mtain-c.tc.umn.edu [160.94.128.20] #+LO+NM
>X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] ns1.mwt.net [207.190.94.2] #+NR (I,-)
>X-Umn-Report-As-Spam:
>
>Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:24:33 -0600
>Subject: Re: Digest restructuring
>From: mIEKAL aND 
>To: Maria Damon 
>
>(maria, can you forward this to POETICS please)
>
>Folks are misunderstanding the implementation.  For those who want
>to be participant in all three aspects of the list, it would
>continue to be exactly the same as it is now, you would be
>subscribed to all three lists & still have access to discussing
>anything ad nauseum.  But for those that don't want live poetry in
>their mailbox, they would have the option to not subscribe to that
>feed.
>
>I think what's not being said is that a listserv as a tool for
>organizing community has become somewhat outdated, especially when
>such large numbers are involved & a lot of what the poetics list has
>become would be much better served by a content management system
>which would allow each person to manage their identity individually,
>create an account, subscribe to sub functions like discussion, new
>works, reviews etc via an rss feed.  If you spend time with other
>kinds of online communities a lot of them are set up that way,
>especially among the younger folks.
>
>~mIEKAL
>
>
>"The word is the first stereotype."  Isidore Isou, 1947.


--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:06:45 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Murat Nemet-Nejat 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 01/28/05 11:16:31 AM, joris@ALBANY.EDU writes:


> I agree with Marias' ditto, mIEKAL's grey parrots,=A0 Murat's open
> discussion & Hal's incitements towards tool use -- I love the mess of
> the list -- maybe due my own messy collage/decollage brain & have never
> liked "digests" -- readers or online-readers -- the strength of the
> poetics list has been exactly the heterogeneity of the sendings --
>=20
> Pierre
>=20
>=20

Yes, for better or worse.

Murat
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:10:52 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Elizabeth Block 
Subject:      A Gesture Through Time book launch
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

dear gentle poets and writers

i am on the verge of publishing my first book (a novel)
A Gesture Through Time

Spuyten Duyvil Press will release two editions
an advanced limited edition with cover art and drawings inside
the book
(which accompany the textual flip book part of my story)
by experimental filmmaker, Donna Cameron (who recently exhibited her
films at the new MoMA)
and in the near future a paperback will be available in bookstores,
etc.

if you are in NYC
please join me, Spuyten Duyvil Press, and Donna Cameron
for a book launch/reading
Bowery Poetry Club
Monday January 31
7-9:30 p.m.
with a film screening by Donna Cameron

if you cannot make it and are interested in learning more about the
book,
or if you might like a copy of the advanced limited edition, please
check out

spuytenduyvil.net/fiction/agesturethroughtime

and if this is not an option, the paperback is forthcoming

(for those in my home town, San Francisco,
my first local reading is scheduled at City Lights Bookstore
Tuesday, May 24, 7:00 p.m.)

thanks very much!
Elizabeth Block
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:08:19 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Halvard Johnson 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  <159.497cface.2f2bcb25@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

{    > I agree with Marias' ditto, mIEKAL's grey parrots,  Murat's open
{    > discussion & Hal's incitements towards tool use -- I love the mess of
{    > the list -- maybe due my own messy collage/decollage brain & have never
{    > liked "digests" -- readers or online-readers -- the strength of the
{    > poetics list has been exactly the heterogeneity of the sendings --
{    >
{    > Pierre
{    >
{    >
{
{    Yes, for better or worse.
{
{    Murat

Yes, for better and worse.

Hal
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:09:25 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         noah eli gordon 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

The irony here being that as a digest subscriber myself this is what the
original message looked like, which, as per usual, I absently scrolled
through:
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==
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:33:28 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Murat Nemet-Nejat 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 01/28/05 12:12:14 PM, halvard@EARTHLINK.NET writes:


> {=A0 =A0 Yes, for better or worse.
> {
> {=A0 =A0 Murat
>=20
> Yes, for better and worse.
>=20
> Hal
>=20

Yes, even better.

Murat
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:12:37 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         amy king 
Subject:      Poetry X
In-Reply-To:  <1a9.30532c50.2f2bd168@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

(Caution:  some self promotion ahead)


Poetry X [sister site to Plagiarist.com] just posted
some of my poems:


http://poetry.poetryx.com/poets/418/


The editor is developing the site into a wonderful
resource:


"Poetry X is a web site devoted to increasing the
public's readership and appreciation of poetry via the
Internet. PoetryX.com is owned and operated by poet,
critic, and raconteur Jough Dempsey, who receives much
guidance and assistance from a number of generous
people online."


And ...


"As more poets contact us to publish their work, and
as Poetry X takes on more members and a wider
readership, the site will be able to provide even more
original content, criticism, analyses, and help for
students and poetry lovers alike (sometimes the two
groups do intersect, we know)."


Also ...


"Poetry Archives: the poetry archives contain poems
from the classic to contemporary. The poetry archives
are the oldest section of the site (and the reason for
making a poetry-related web site) and have been online
in one form or another since 1996 ...


Articles: the articles on Poetry X include a series on
writing poems, information about particular poems and
poets, articles about the business of poetry,
publishing, and society, canonical essays written
way-back-when, and all other writing and criticism
that didn't seem to fit anywhere else.


Analysis: in association with our sister site,
Plagiarist.com, we offer downloadable eBooks called
the 'PoetryNotes™.' Each PoetryNotes™ book offers a
complete analysis of a poem, background and
information about the poem, author, and period, a
biography of the poet, a detailed bibliography (works
cited), a glossary of poetic terms used in the
PoetryNotes™, and a guide to using the PoetryNotes™ to
write a successful essay or term paper.


Discussion Forums: visit our poetry discussion forums
to talk about all aspects poetry. You can post your
own poems for critique in the 'Members' Poetry Post,'
post questions or other topics for discussion."
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:47:59 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Daniel Kane 
Subject:      Marjorie Welish reading in Norfolk, UK
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

For those of you in, on or about Norwich, Norfolk,, please be aware that
M. Welish will be at the University of East Anglia,

on Tuesday February 1 2005

at 5:15 p.m

in room A2.37

wine reception - all students and staff welcome

contact me for directions etc.
best,
--daniel
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:14:56 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Poetry Project 
Subject:      Events at the Poetry Project-TONIGHT-2/4
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Friday, January 28, 10:30 pm
Lenny Kaye=B9s =B3You Call It Madness: The Sensuous Song of the Croon=B2
Writer and musician Lenny Kaye=B9s You Call It Madness (just out from
Villard/Random House) illuminates a critical juncture in American popular
culture=8Ba time when singers crossed gender and racial lines, and the mores
of the twentieth century began to shed their inhibitions. Tonight Kaye will
read and perform songs from his impressionistic study of the romantic
singers of the 1930s, complete with tuxedo shirt and vibratoed guitar.

Monday, January 31, 8:00 pm
Talk Series: Thalia Field, =B3Blunt Edge of Chaos: A Poetics of Emergent
Forms=B2
A talk exploring the ways in which artistic/creative work models other
living forms in process, leading to a range of artistic =B3display=B2 which is
only partly phenotypical with regard to literary =B3genre.=B2 Working between
poetry, essay, fiction, media and theater, these new forms are weedy and
hard to define by niche, while remaining genuine to their conditions and
causes. Thalia Field is the author of Point and Line and Incarnate: Story
Material as well as the performance novel, Clown Shrapnel, forthcoming from
Coffee House Press. She teaches at Naropa=B9s Summer Writing Program in
addition to the Program for Literary Arts at Brown University.

Wednesday, February 2, 8:00 pm
Cate Marvin & Akilah Oliver
Cate Marvin=B9s first book of poems, World=B9s Tallest Disaster, was awarded th=
e
2000 Kathryn A. Morton Prize by Robert Pinsky, and published by Sarabande
Books in 2001. In 2002, she received the Kate Tufts Discovery Award from
Claremont Graduate University. She is an assistant professor in creative
writing at the College of Staten Island, City University of New York. Akila=
h
Oliver is the author of the she said dialogues: flesh memory and the
chapbook/CD An Arriving Guard of Angels, Thusly Coming to Greet. She has
been artist in residence at Beyond Baroque Literary Arts Center and the
recipient of grants from the California Arts Council and The Flintridge
Foundation, among others. She is currently on the adjunct faculty at Naropa
University and the core faculty of its Summer Writing Program, and a
lecturer at CU-Boulder where she teaches research writing using race, class
and gender as interlocking analytic tools.

Friday, February 4, 10:30 pm
The Rage of Aquarius
Is when the past and the future have a long, fireside chat=8A =B3The Rage of
Aquarius=B2 is hosted by Desiree Burch, and features Obie-winning playwright
Kyle Jarrow, Def-poet and NeoFuturist Regie Cabico, filmmaker Sarah
Reynolds, and Scott Hoffer of the sketch comedy group Trophy Dad, as well a=
s
all the live music, live people, and love you will need to make it through
the long winter of discontent.

WRITING WORKSHOPS AT THE POETRY PROJECT

KEEPING IT SIMPLE/LOOKING FOR THE LIGHT =AD PATRICIA SPEARS JONES
TUESDAYS AT 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 22ND
"The quality of light by which we scrutinize our lives has direct bearing
upon the product which we live...It is within this light that we form those
ideas by which we pursue our magic and make it realized. This is poetry as
illumination." =AD from =B3Poetry is Not a Luxury=B2 by Audre Lorde. =B3This is a
poetry workshop that takes the poetry of illumination to mean the poetry of
experience. How we scrutinize, how we elucidate our lives through words and
rhythms, how we make our poems bring new ways of thinking about our lives.
We will focus on the basics: line, stanza, cadence, meter, diction, syntax,
and point of view -=AD the elements that make a poem. We will also read
contemporary poets including Audre Lorde, Maureen Owen, Amy Gerstler, Shara=
n
Strange, Lee Young Lee, Jeanne Marie Beaumont, Frank O'Hara, Lorenzo Thomas=
,
and Bob Kaufman.=B2 Patricia Spears Jones is an award-winning poet and
playwright, and author of The Weather That Kills. Students must submit 5-10
pg. work samples before the class begins.

FINDING THE & THEN SOME THERE THERE =AD MERRY FORTUNE
THURSDAYS at 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 24TH
Film of Dreyer, writing of Mayer, painting of Traylor. An identifiable poet
=B3voice=B2 is a desirable, comfortable and utilitarian achievement. But what
potential or beautiful mystery lurks beyond carefully cultivated form,
tendency, technique, habit and boundary. Exploring the processes, qualities
and aesthetics of all art forms we will collectively discover commonalities=
,
and fearlessly apprehend what we may learn to expand our poetic values and
vocabularies as well as our very minds. Merry Fortune is the author of
Ghosts By Albert Ayler, Ghosts By Albert Ayler (Futurepoem).

HYPNOSIS AND CREATIVITY =AD MAGGIE DUBRIS
FRIDAYS AT 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 25TH
=B3Hypnotic and trance states have been used for centuries by shamans, mystic=
s
and visionaries. In this five week workshop, we will study techniques for
self-hypnosis that allow a writer to easily access the creative flow state.
We will explore the use of hypnotic tools to generate images, to increase
creative focus, to switch gears from a day job into writing, and to
circumvent creative blocks. We will also discuss the use of hypnosis to
vividly recall memories, and its use in conjunction with other creative
tools such as automatic writing.=B2 A $20 materials fee covers four of
Dubris=B9s hypnosis CDs, three of which are specifically geared to writing.
Maggie Dubris is the author of Skels (Soft Skull Press 2004), and Weep Not,
My Wanton (Black Sparrow Press 2002). She is also employed as a professiona=
l
hypnotist.=20


POETRY AND MUSIC =AD DREW GARDNER
FRIDAYS at 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN APRIL 8TH
=B3A workshop investigating the relation of music and poetry, comparing the
languages of poetry and music and asking questions about how they can be
combined and how they might illuminate each other. What are the poetic
implications of improvisation? What are the musical implications of everyda=
y
speech? What does our experience of poetry imply about how we experience
sound and how does our listening affect our writing? We will read and liste=
n
to Harry Partch, Morton Feldman, Leo Smith, Pauline Oliveros, Thoreau,
Nathaniel Mackey and others, keep listening notebooks and collaborate with
guest musicians. No musical background required.=B2 Drew Gardner is the autho=
r
of Sugar Pill (Krupskaya) and conducts the Poetics Orchestra, an ensemble
featuring poetry and structured improvisation.


A LAB: POST-CONCEPTUAL POETRIES =AD ROBERT FITTERMAN
SATURDAYS AT 12PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 26
=B3What happens when we ask ourselves not if the poem =B3could have been done
better, but whether it could have been done otherwise=B2 (Dworkin). In
post-conceptual writing, the expression is realized in the process. This
workshop will be a hands-on writing lab. Each week we will write poems
in-class generated by borrowed models from contemporary, 21st Century
poetry. Some of these experiments might include: sampling, bastardization,
procedural writing, mixed media, collaboration, etc.=B2 Robert Fitterman is
the author of 9 books of poetry including: Metropolis XXX (Edge Books),
Metropolis 16-29 (Coach House Press) and Metropolis 1-15 (Sun & Moon Press)=
.

The workshop fee is $300, which includes a one-year individual Poetry
Project membership and tuition for any and all fall and spring classes.
Reservations are required due to limited class space and payment must be
received in advance. Please send payment and reservations to: The Poetry
Project, St. Mark=B9s Church, 131 E. 10th St., NY, NY 10003. For more
information please call (212) 674-0910 or e-mail info@poetryproject.com. We
do accept payment via credit cards. You can either submit $ at
www.paypal.com, or call the office with your number: 212-674-0910. Thanks!


TWO INTERNSHIP OPPORTUNITIES AT
NEW YORK STATE COUNCIL ON THE ARTS

=20

 From:           Individual Artist Program and Music Program
Subject:        Media & Music INTERNSHIPS Available at New  York State
Council for the Arts
=20
=20
I.                The Individual Artist (IND) Program is looking for Film &
Media interns to work closely with Program Director Don  Palmer.  This
internship is available immediately.  For more information about NYSCA you
may visit our website at www.nysca.org 
   .
=20
Primary Duties include the Following:
=B7       Identify and catalog work sample submissions from applicants.
=B7       Review submissions of video, audio, and computer work samples to
insure that they are in working order in preparation for Panel Meetings.
=B7       Run A/V equipment and take notes as needed during Panel Meetings.
(Panel Meeting dates are June 13-16, 2005)

INTERNSHIP BENEFITS:

This internship is unpaid but offers a flexible schedule in a warm and
friendly office environment. This is a great opportunity for any student,
emerging filmmaker or arts administrator that is interested in learning how
the wheels of public funding work from within one of the leading state
government agencies of its kind in the country.  Interns will have
networking opportunities with panelists as well as with NYSCA staff. Also,
upon successful completion IND staff will be happy to serve as a reference.

II.              The Music (MSC) Program is looking for interns to work
closely with the two-person Program staff. This internship is available
immediately. For more information about NYSCA you may visit our website at
www.nysca.org    .
=20
Primary Duties include the following:
=B7       Make assignments for artistic evaluations
=20
In order to be able to evaluate an applicant=B9s artistic quality, the Music
program sends free-lance writers (called auditors) to concerts all over New
York State.  After attending a concert, the auditor writes a report and
sends it to us.  The intern would:
~help keep track of those organizations in need of auditing;
~assign the auditor/s to a particular event/s;
~make sure the report/s is received in our office.
=20
=B7       Run audio equipment and take notes during Panel Meetings (three
times a year);=20
=B7       Review submissions of CDs/Audio tapes to insure that all have been
submitted=20
=20
INTERNSHIP BENEFITS:
This internship is unpaid but offers a flexible schedule in a warm and
friendly office environment. This is a great opportunity for any student,
emerging musician or arts administrator that is interested in learning how
the wheels of public funding work from within one of the leading state
government agencies of its kind in the country.  Interns will have
networking opportunities with panelists as well as with NYSCA staff. Music
Staff will also make every effort to include the interns in meetings with
music organizations of all types, and the interns are free to observe and
participate in meetings of the staff, advisory panels, and the Council
Board. Also, upon successful completion MSC staff will be happy to serve as
a reference.

HOW TO APPLY:

Please send your resume and brief cover note via Email to Arian Blanco at
ablanco@nysca.org or FAX your information at 212-620-5676.
=20
Reference either IND Internship or MSC Internship and send it to Attn: Aria=
n
Blanco, Program Arts Associate. For Email submissions put all information
into the body of the email, attachments will NOT be opened.  NO PHONE CALLS
PLEASE.


The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html

The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery
131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue
New York City 10003
Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L.
info@poetryproject.com
www.poetryproject.com

Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now
those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all
regular readings).

We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance
notice. For more info call 212-674-0910.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:50:42 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  <159.497cface.2f2bcb25@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I would doubt that software to administer the list includes the ability to
assemble the digest in the way Bruce requests.

Currently, I imagine the digest is simply arranged chronologically, and it's
auto-assembled by the list software.

List software has barely been updated in twenty years. Lists are wonderful
but the software is, by now, out of date.

The main problem is that there is no folder structure. If you want another
folder, you have another list. Whereas a single list should be capable of
supporting multiple folders so that, for instance, it could support the sort
of digest Bruce suggests. In other words, when posting, you post to one (or
possibly more?) folders that are simply a part of the list.

There are all sorts of social conflicts on lists that better list software
and email client software could *help* with. List software seems designed
for relatively small groups where 'one room' is all you need or want.

The sort of digest structure Bruce requests would, at the moment, probably
require a fleshly editor to sift through all the messages and sort them as
proposed.

There are occassionally such efforts by some lists, or related projects.

For instance, consider the email lists at http://rhizome.org . There's
Rhizome_Raw. That's the whole enchilada. Then there's Rhizome_Rare. That's a
separate list which is culled from Rhizome_Raw. Rhizome_Rare is the tasty
stuff. Then there's Rhizome_Digest, a third separate list. This is a
(manually edited and assembled) weekly or bi-monthly publication culled from
Raw that is organized by headings such as
Opportunities
Announcements
Works
Selected Thread
Interview

ja
http://vispo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:08:16 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Austinwja@AOL.COM
Subject:      Blackbox online
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello everyone,

Blackbox's winter gallery is now available for viewing.  Per usual, go to
WilliamJamesAustin.com and follow the Blackbox link.  Then take a long stroll
(scroll) through the galleries until you reach the Winter, 2005 edition.

Thanks to everyone who sent stuff.

Best, Bill

WilliamJamesAustin.com
KojaPress.com
Amazon.com
BarnesandNobel.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:12:21 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Stephen Vincent 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Not to be flip about Bruce Andrew's reasonable query, but I can't help but
thinking, that his desire is utopic & reflective of the malaise if not down
right utter collective sickness of many, if not most of us at the inability
to "digest" anything. Out here - as we find ourselves - in the Bush filled
darkness.
Ah, that all could be "restructured" so as to be able to "digest" again!

There's definitely a lump in the American throat.

And beyond that, who is now in charge of this List. I know Laura(sp?)
Emerson is the facilitator/Administrator. But back in the Garden, was not
Charles Bernstein the one that got this all going with a vision of what
would distinguish this list from other lists?  Now that he is no longer in
Buffalo, does there remain any operative vision and/or perceived need? Must
be something that makes people be quiet or quit the list in one disgust or
another - is that from an absence of vision or??  Frankly, it's seemed real
flat here for a long time - with an occasional flare of intrigue and
excitement.
What would be utopic as a and how would it operate? If that is the question.

Stephen V
Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:36:35 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harrison Jeff 
Subject:      The Word Ancient Was Just A Long Impatience
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

nine million Sphinx were contained
in fifteen long rows of Sphinx


upon which Sphinx should Virginia,
the sepulchress, hang her name


Virginia's name never occurred
in all the words princes place
though powerful her patience


in all her words, princes place their
foot yet east, fair verse, to night


her murmuring green worth
is rich also with pearls, dainty as
a nightingale in fair glass


so droop, voices, and your mouths
move a blue rasp of silken blood,
mouths move in the every shape
of what's hidden beneath sands,
lowest like the sphinx hung with
V's name, crying meteor, meteor
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:58:00 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response

But that's a poem!! You cant fool me ! "DOq......"- blah!  We cant have that
! Get i toff !! Supress it!!! Exterminate the text below  -it is dangerously
meaningless and intrusive I dont want to see it!!!


Richard Taylor

Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile:

----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice
cream."------------------

Aspect Books
(N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "noah eli gordon" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: Digest restructuring


> The irony here being that as a digest subscriber myself this is what the
> original message looked like, which, as per usual, I absently scrolled
> through:
>
> DQoNCg0KDQpTaW5jZSBtYW55IG9mIHVzIHJlY2VpdmUgdGhlIFBvZXRpY3MgbGlzdCBpbiBkaWdl
> c3QgZm9ybQ0KYW5kIG1hbnkgb2YgdGhvc2Ugd2hvIGRvIGV4cHJlc3Mgb2NjYXNpb25hbCBncnVt
> cGluZXNzDQphYm91dCAgdGhlIGxpc3QgZ2V0dGluZyBjcmFtbWVkIHdpdGggcG9lbXMgKGFuZCBv
> dGhlcg0KY3JlYXRpdmUgc2VsZi1wdWJsaXNoaW5nIHByb2plY3RzKSDigJQgYW5kIGJlaW5nIHRv
> bGQsIHVwb24NCnRoZSByZWNlcHRpb24gb2Ygc3VjaCBncnVtcGluZXNzLCAnaGV5LCBqdXN0IHVz
> ZSB0aGUgZGVsZXRlDQpidXR0b24nLCBJIHdhcyB3b25kZXJpbmcgaWYgdGhlcmUgbWlnaHQgYmUg
> c29tZSB3YXkgb2YNCmZpbmVzc2luZyB0aGlzIChzbyB0aGUgZGlnZXN0LXJlY2VpdmVycyBkb24n
> dCBoYXZlIHRvDQpjb25zdGFudGx5IHNjcm9sbCB0aHJvdWdoIGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgdG8gZmluZCB3
> aGF0IHRoZXkgYXJlDQpsb29raW5nIGZvcikuDQoNCldvdWxkIGl0IGJlIHBvc3NpYmxlIOKAlCBh
> bmQgZGVzaXJhYmxlIOKAlCB0byBzaW1wbHkgc29ydA0KdGhlIGRpZ2VzdCBpbnRvIGNhdGVnb3Jp
> ZXMgYW5kIGhhdmUgdGhlbSBpbiBhIHByZWRpY3RhYmxlDQpvcmRlcj8NCkZvciBteSBwYXJ0LCBJ
> IGNvdWxkIHNlZQ0KMS4gQW5ub3VuY2VtZW50cw0KMi4gRGlzY3Vzc2luZ3MsIENvbW1lbnRzLCBR
> dWVyaWVzDQozLiBQb2VtcywgYWxnb3JpdGhtaWMgY29uZmVjdGlvbnMsIGV0Yy4NCmFzIHNlcGFy
> YXRlIGNhdGVnb3JpZXMNCmFuZCBJIGNvdWxkIGhhcHBpbHkgaW1hZ2luZSB0aGVtIHN0YWNrZWQg
> aW4gdGhhdCBvcmRlciwNCnJhdGhlciB0aGFuIGhhdmluZyBjYXRlZ29yaWVzIG9mIHRoaW5ncyB0
> aGF0IHBlb3BsZSB3b3VsZA0Kd2FudCB0byBzY3JvbGwgdGhyb3VnaCBiZWluZyB2ZWluZWQgdGhy
> b3VnaG91dCB0aGUgZGlnZXN0DQppbiBhIHdheSB0aGF0IHJlcXVpcmVzIGdvaW5nIHRocm91Z2gg
> dGhlIGVudGlyZXR5IGxvb2tpbmcNCmZvciB3aGF0IHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIHJlYWQuDQoNCkN1cmlv
> dXMgdG8ga25vdyB3aGF0IG90aGVycyB0aG91Z2h0Lg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KQnJ1Y2UgQW5kcmV3cw==
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>
>



--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:39:26 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm disappointed, though not really surprised, that anyone should feel th=
at
the posting of poems to a poetics list is inappropriate.  This is the sam=
e
attitude which leads more people than will admit it to skip over the actu=
al
poetry in the latest issue of any poetry journal they happen to pick up, =
so
they can get to the reviews and letters in the back, where the real actio=
n is.
 =


The list guidelines say that "the Poetics List exists to support and enco=
urage
divergent points of view on modern and contemporary poetry and poetics ..=
=2E" =

How the posting of poems for discussion can be anything but central to th=
e
support and encouragement of divergent points of view on modern and
contemporary poetry and poetics is beyond me.
True, the guidelines explicitly encourage the posting of announcements of=

interest to poets, saying that "Such announcements constitute a core func=
tion
of this list," but note that small but significant article:  announcement=
s are
one important function of the list, not its only function or its single m=
ost
important one.
 =

I think Pound says somewhere that worthwhile criticism of poetry should
consist mainly of quotations.  Well, those days are long gone.  =


Also as long as I'm complaining, why am I getting some messages under thi=
s
heading which look like ascii representations of binary files?  Or is thi=
s a
particularly innovative form of langpo?  (The list guidelines also say th=
at
all postings to the list should be in text-only format.)

Incidentally, one solution to managing heavy list traffic that works for =
many
people is to use Google's Gmail, which has a number of features which are=

especially useful for handling mailing list email.  It's free, but it's i=
n
beta and you need to be invited to get an account by a current account ho=
lder.
 I'm a current account holder there and have a limited number of invitati=
ons I
can give out.  If anyone on this list wants one, send me your email addre=
ss
and full name (Google will want it) and I'll send you an invitation if I'=
m in
a good mood.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:46:57 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      My poetics
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

How and Why To Write Poetry:  advice from those who know


1)  Today dear friends I will sing beautifully and make you happy.
                               -- Sappho

2)  The objects the imitator represents are actions.
                               -- Aristotle

3)  A big book is a big bore.
                               -- Callimachus

4)  Poetry is not a turning loose of emotion, but an escape from emotion;=
 it
    is not the expression of personality but an escape from personality.
                               -- T. S. Eliot

5)  Don't pay any attention to book prizes!  Never.  To none.  Not
    even the Nobel.  They are a snare.  -- Vincent Miller

6)  Literature is language charged with meaning.
                               -- Ezra  Pound

7)  A man can learn more about poetry by really knowing and
    examining a few of the best poems than by meandering about among
    a great many.  -- Ezra Pound

8)  Miles Davis (after a gig):  Man, why do you play so long?
    John Coltrane:  I had to play that long, to get it all in.

9)  True wit is Nature to advantage dress'd,
    What oft was thought, but ne'er so well express'd.
                               -- Pope

10)  Silence can be complex too,
                but you do not get far
                       with silence.
                               -- William Carlos Williams

11)  Experience has taught me, when I am shaving of a morning, to
     keep watch over my thoughts, because if a line of poetry strays
     into my memory, my skin bristles so that the razor ceases to
     act.
                               -- A. E. Housman

12)  For us there is only the trying.  The rest is not our business.
                               -- T. S. Eliot

13)  No data without experiment.
                               -- Sophocles, tr. Ezra Pound

14)  Say what you will in two
     Words and get through.
     Long, frilly
     Palaver is silly.
                               -- Marie-Francoise-Catherine de
                                   Beauveau, tr. Ezra Pound

15)  Interviewer:  Doesn't it embarrass you to see Bobby trying to
     learn how to play slide on stage?  Jerry Garcia:  Um, yeah.
     But the point is, it doesn't embarrass him.

16)  Take this, this Psalm, from me, burst from my hand in a day ...
                               -- Allen Ginsberg

17)  Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the World.
                               -- Shelley

18)                           It is difficult
     to get the news from poems
                 yet men die miserably every day
                           for lack
     of what is found there.
                               -- William Carlos Williams

19)  For year upon year have I struggled with hammer and ink, O my
     tortured heart, with fire and gold to make you an embroidery, an
     orangetree hyancinth, a blossoming quince to console you ...
                               -- Nikos Gatsos


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:17:49 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "Hoerman, Michael A" 
Subject:      the list: a poem; death of a 20-year-old journal
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I sometimes skip through things in the digest that don't catch my eye. I'm sure
we all do. Like a few of you, I skipped right through Bruce A.'s seemingly oddly
formatted post. Anyway,  I've never before posted a poem to the list. I just
don't like that it is being discouraged as an option.

This one appeared in Michael Hathaway's Chiron Review, which after 20 years
(Yes, TWENTY YEARS) of quarterly publication will publish its last issue in Dec
2005. Subs are already closed. Here's to pissing on the el Camino.


The Woodsman and the Nixie

We saw a naked woman on a gravel bar.
We crouched in the fescue, watched a man pump
Her with legs pinned back; oh God, she was moaning.
He was a big, hairy, animal looking man,
Come out of the woods to tickle a nixie.

The nixie danced on his cock like a bitch firefly,
Painted him with glowing juices.
Her wings fanned the moschatel.
The snake doctors came out riding.
Ripsaw jumped in the riffle,
Taking down cottonmouth from low limbs.
A red hawk dove and gouged the woodsman's back.
A beaver smacked him on the ass with its tail.
The nixie bliss-rolled him into a patch of burnweed,
Bu they weren't stopping for anything.
"Holy shit" one of us whispered.

Then 2 boys who hadn't yet come into rut rode up.
They held their hands over their mouths, trying
To hold back snickering laughter.
We older boys gave mean looks,
Mean I'll-punch-you-in-the-mouth looks.
But they couldn't hold back; one of them yelled out.
The woodsman dismounted.
The nixie covered herself with a towel.
The woodsman pulled out a German Luger.
Shots smacked into the lightning-killed tree.
Mud daubers stormed out, stinging anything that moved.
The younger boys rode off, crying.
The woodsman didn't see us in the fescue.
He put down the Luger.
His stamen was dripping gloryseed.
They went back to it.
We watched as long as we could stand it.
Then we pissed on his el Camino and rode away.



Michael Hoerman

http://pornfeld.blogspot.com 
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:00:24 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Joe Brennan 
Subject:      Rumsfeld Fears Arrest In Germany!
Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 Click here: The Assassinated Press
http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/

Rumsfeld Fears Arrest In Germany:
"Christ. If They're Going After You For War Crimes In Germany, You Must Be A
Motherfucker," Says Barry McCaffrey
By BADLEY GROOMED



They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.

".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in
the
sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful
language
of power.  There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or
hypocritical,
whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks.  The dominating
impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed
good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured

forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter
house.
One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first
giving
free reign to this hubbub of voices...."
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:11:39 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Murat Nemet-Nejat 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 01/28/05 3:51:01 PM, jim@VISPO.COM writes:


> The sort of digest structure Bruce requests would, at the moment, probably
> require a fleshly editor to sift through all the messages and sort them as
> proposed.
>

We come to the same issue which has been with the list all the years I have
been part of it, how open the list should be. What is a flame? Is being boring
or obnoxious the same as "flaming," which seems to be the self-evident taboo
act, the sin, of the internet world.
Murat
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 21:59:49 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Nico Vassilakis 
Subject:      every month for years now i post the Subtext Reading Series from
              Seattle.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

i am guilty of not participating in conversation here.
but
every month i post the Subtext Reading Series from Seattle.
and
it is important to our community, to those who visit it, & id like to think
hinged to a larger one.





eye digest & as eye dont or want to read it. eye scroll down. nothing can be
free. if. without. this is become. a melting pot. this list. eye watch as
names take up residence here. stay awhile. seek power. position, force you
to remember them. power. attitude shift. shifts. eye recall the names not
prefered. they leave. frustrated. with. without enemies. you sift. the sieve
of time. takes care.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jan 2005 22:45:10 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > The sort of digest structure Bruce requests would, at the
> moment, probably
> > require a fleshly editor to sift through all the messages and
> sort them as
> > proposed.
> >
>
> We come to the same issue which has been with the list all the
> years I have
> been part of it, how open the list should be. What is a flame? Is
> being boring
> or obnoxious the same as "flaming," which seems to be the
> self-evident taboo
> act, the sin, of the internet world.
> Murat

To me, the architecture of lists is one room. A long stage of current
posts/threads. 1000 people. This is OK for small groups. But it presents
issues that would benefit from architecture for larger spaces with 1000
people, particularly if the subject matter is increasingly heterogenous
(which tends to happen as the list grows). Also, it imposes limits on the
significance and growth of any topic under discussion. Of course it has its
charms, also.

I suspect that a lot of the problems with lists are matters of software
architecture. Yet we don't normally think about the software architecture
(or the consequences of physical architecture, for that matter).

I seem to recall McLuhan saying something to the effect that media shape the
environment.

I've often thought it would be a difficult but rewarding project to design
new list software. Server side and client side. Have the client side
developed as plugins to Outlook and Outlook Express and other popular email
clients. Develop the server side in PHP or Python or something like that.
Ideally, have it developed as a plugin to some existing server side list
software.

ja
http://vispo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 02:25:07 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

i can't digest all this


deconstruct   please
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:19:42 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Fw: Re: WS and the ancients
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

gotta be a joke but don't tell that to the blind king (oedipus)
without those boys no willie the shake

great idea divide and concure  the list
but this list is like a hospital  so cut it up or leave it in chaos


the waiting room's infinite demise


de/formed
beyond (almost)
recognition
the little girl in the wheel chair
sings to herself
in a language beyond (almost)
recognition
so soft &
beautiful

is this historical or
rectal

the waiting room is...............

an elevator swollen with miseries

  ( where does the song come from? )

my bodies lurch    crumble inward
out / in from the freezing bus-stop
i maintain what little there is left
of my dignity
a shiny club-footed pigeon
loudspeaking trauma

intern's voice cracking like a
nursery rhyme

it's a lesson in moronics
more or less
bolted to groundlessness
ward A
a big cube of black
with a big orange A
B
C
in 1 west where we wait

ceasar is here &
juan  & xui chang & #
67
rotcods & eciffos
raised from the icy ashes

i am responsible
i am patient
i am sick &
i am right

i am a large cubed letter
waiting my turn
barely visible to my own sight

but where is her song when i
need it most?

                                              steve dalchinsky bellevue
hospital waiting room nyc 1/27/05
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:44:46 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      Re: WS and the ancients
In-Reply-To:  <20050129.033618.-66653.1.skyplums@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> great idea divide and concure  the list
> but this list is like a hospital  so cut it up or leave it in chaos

Yes there is no fixing it sort of as there is no fixing poetry. As Charles
said in The Terminal Poet ( http://greatworks.org.uk/poems/ttp.html ), "We
know now poetry must bleed somewhere. . . and you can't stop the bleeding. .
."

But let's not suppose that there is anything sacred about current list
software architecture. Any more than the one-room building is the best
possible.

WS?

ja
http://vispo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:09:56 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: PROTEST notes from DC inauguration...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original

Craig

None of these people are any good - they all administer the capitalist -
Imperialist system - they all seem 'good or 'nice but it's their status and
their bank balance concerns them most - not the  US per se (we have the same
thing here in NZ) -with some  apparent "niceness"  their alleigances
are -however much even they know it - to their class  -not really to the US
(none of them are good nationalists in the healthy sense)-- she would have
gone to war - kept this terror thing going - the ruling classes need it.

The bourgeois "democratic" system is bankrupt it always has been  - it
allows enough liberty to generate a reservoir of workers of varying skill
levels up to say managers, engineers, executives, accountants or financial
people, and scientists  etc - who are workers - even top executives and
managers are  - in Marxist terms - workers -although allied to the ruling
class (who are the bourgeoisie in Marxist terms) - you will be thinking of
the "failure" of the Soviet Union - it was destroyed form within and from
without - they never even really reached a socialist system - before it was
subverted - it became similar to Nazi Germany - it was revisionist but that
doesn't mean that ultimately capitalism will not be transformed if not
destroyed - - the aim needs to be a working class state  - or a people's
state - in the real sense - whether that is achievable is moot - but as I
say - those such as the Clintons - despite they smile a lot, are just there
to keep the system working - they are all very rich -often obscenely rich  -
yes people - no real opposition to the industrial - military complex -no
change since 1945 -no real change.

None of them care about people their desires are power and fame and status
and to aid capitalism - they hate the working people of the world.

These are my views

Richard Taylor

Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile:

----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice
cream."------------------

Aspect Books
(N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Allen Conrad" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 5:35 AM
Subject: PROTEST notes from DC inauguration...


> Went down to DC with my friends Matt and Nicole
> to protest at the inauguration celebration, and
> those notes are here:  http://phillysound.blogspot.com
>
> One of the things that's really bugging me though is
> the continued support of Hillary Clinton.  While driving
> back to Philly from DC we were listening to Air America,
> or whatever that new left radio show is.  And I like the
> show for the most part, and am very glad it exists, but
> I just can't get over how many pardons Clinton gets!
>
> She looks good from a distance, but then you see her
> in documentaries about Wall Mart and Sam Walton and
> she's making statements like, "What a GREAT American
> Sam Walton is!"  And a chill goes shooting up the spine!
>
> NOT to mention the fact that SHE SAID she was going
> to stand beside Boxer on January 6th to contest the
> election results, but then backed down.  As did Obama,
> Kennedy, Kerry(!) and others.  But Boxer came through,
> and it was nice seeing the pro Boxer signs at the protest.
>
> The Democrats are such a pack of cowards!  And to be
> honest I expected to see some pro Clinton signs at the
> protest in DC, but I didn't see a single one.  It was all the
> people on the radio on the drive home that made me crazy,
> talking about the inauguration, and how they wish it was
> Hillary Clinton being inaugurated.
>
> I'm NOT saying Hillary Clinton would have gone into Iraq,
> I'm just saying she's not the Messiah so many want her
> to be.  Let's replay the images of her APPLAUDING Bush
> not too long ago during his speech about the Patriot Act
> and invading Iraq.  She DIDN'T HAVE TO applaud.  There
> were no applause police there making her applaud.  And
> Ted Kennedy sat there with his arms folded, but yet, still
> I say, WHERE WAS TED on January 6th!?
>
> Anyway, I'm so sick of Hillary Clinton, and I'm not convinced
> she's any less a lying politician than her heart attack husband.
>
> CAConrad
> http://phillysound.blogspot.com
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>
>



--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 06:47:42 -0500
Reply-To:     Anastasios Kozaitis 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Anastasios Kozaitis 
Subject:      Re: WS and the ancients
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

william shakespeare


On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:44:46 -0800, Jim Andrews  wrote:
> > great idea divide and concure  the list
> > but this list is like a hospital  so cut it up or leave it in chaos
>
> Yes there is no fixing it sort of as there is no fixing poetry. As Charles
> said in The Terminal Poet ( http://greatworks.org.uk/poems/ttp.html ), "We
> know now poetry must bleed somewhere. . . and you can't stop the bleeding. .
> ."
>
> But let's not suppose that there is anything sacred about current list
> software architecture. Any more than the one-room building is the best
> possible.
>
> WS?
>
> ja
> http://vispo.com
>


--
Anastasios Kozaitis
3063 29th Street
Astoria, NY 11102

kozaitis@gmail.com

m: 917 572 6561
h: 718 267 7943
w: 212 327 8696
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:29:32 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "Shankar, Ravi (English)" 
Subject:      Re: CALL FOR PROPOSALS for INCUBATION3 (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

-----Original Message-----
From:   Alan Sondheim [mailto:sondheim@PANIX.COM]
Sent:   Mon 9/29/2003 11:24 AM
To:     POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Cc:=09
Subject:        CALL FOR PROPOSALS for INCUBATION3 (fwd)

CALL FOR PROPOSALS for INCUBATION3
The 3rd trAce International Symposium on Writing and the Internet
12-14 July 2004 at The Nottingham Trent University, England
http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/

We are pleased to invite proposals for Incubation3, the leading =
international event for writers and artists working online.

Proposals should be submitted via an online form which will be available =
on the website from Friday 10th October 2003: =
http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/

Deadline for Proposals 1st December 2003
Selections announced by 31st January 2004

Keynote Speaker: Mark Amerika
Plus: Paul Brown, Alan Sondheim, Tim Wright
Also featuring: Talan Memmott, Kate Pullinger, Stefan Schemat

Conference Committee
Randy Adams : Paul Brown : Catherine Byron : Jane Dorner : Marjorie =
Luesebrink : Simon Mills : Alan Sondheim : Sue Thomas : Lawrence Upton : =
Helen Whitehead

BURSARIES
New at Incubation3 - 30 bursaries are available for delegates and =
presenters
Generously funded by Arts Council England: East Midlands: =
http://www.artscouncil.org.uk/aboutus/myregion_eastmidlands.html

Applications should be submitted via an online form which will be =
available on the website from Friday 10th October 2003: =
http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/

Previous Incubations
Incubation 2000: =
http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/archive/2000/index.htm
Incubation 2002: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/index2002.cfm

Why a Symposium?
Those familiar with Incubation will notice that we are now a Symposium =
rather than a Conference. This heralds a subtle shift, not in identity, =
but in the way we promote the event. Incubation has always been very =
practice-based and in 2004 it will be even more so. Thanks to Arts =
Council England (http://www.artscouncil.org.uk/) we are offering a total =
of 30 bursaries to enable those who cannot obtain funding elsewhere to =
attend the full residential conference at no charge. We expect this =
injection of financial support to provide a greater balance of academia =
and professional writers and artists.

Themes
The purpose of Incubation has always been to provide ideas, stimulus and =
motivation; information and debate for the international new media =
writing community. We aim to encourage interdisciplinary creativity and =
cross-fertilisation, and we are especially interested in introducing the =
form to writers for whom it is a new idea as well as helping =
practitioners to share and expand their work.
The themes for 2004 are:
A. Developing a new form: contemporary textual works in new media and =
performance
B. The practice of making: creative and professional practice; online =
teaching and learning.
C. Critique and criteria: criticism, reviewing, defining, and archiving =
of new media writing.

TYPES OF PROPOSALS SOUGHT
Proposals will not be considered unless they are submitted via the =
online form. When completing the form please indicate which of the above =
themes (A, B or C) your proposal relates to.

Guidelines
In order to make the field as open as possible we have kept guidelines =
to a minimum but as a rough guide, we encourage lively debate and =
provocative thinking about:
*recent work by both new and established writers and artists. You may =
simply show/perform the work, or accompany it with a practice-based =
commentary or formal critique
*explorations of the ways in which new media works are made, discussed, =
reviewed, categorised and archived
*explorations of online teaching and learning in a creative context
*surprise us!

1. Presentations - 20 minutes
We invite proposals for 20 minute presentations which we will group =
together in panels of three with an added 30 minutes for questions. You =
are also welcome to organise and propose your own panel.

2. Performances
A number of 20 minute presentation periods may be used for short =
performances / presentations of work. In addition a number of longer =
evening sessions may be available. We particularly welcome performances =
which extend limits and cross boundaries. Proposals should describe the =
performance and specify technical support required, set-up times, =
audience profiles, length of performance, etc.

3. Workshops - 1 hour
There will be space for a limited number of hands-on workshops. We are =
interested in workshops with a specific technical or artistic focus. =
Please indicate whether you require a PC resource room or a regular =
classroom.

4. Position Papers/Posters - 10-15 minutes
There will be a limited number of 1 hour sessions beginning with the =
presentation of a short position paper which will have been put online =
before the conference and which will act as a stimulus for discussion. =
These sessions will be chaired and a scribe will be provided. We invite =
contentious papers with scope for energetic debate. The online =
=91paper=92 may be in text or any new media format which will be =
viewable at the discussion and should be submitted by 1st June 2004.

Details of the technology available in our presentation rooms will be =
available on the website from 10th October 2003: =
http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/

ADDITIONAL COLLABORATIVE PROJECT FOR NEW MEDIA / VIDEO / SOUND ARTISTS
We hope to obtain funding for Online/Offline, a collaborative project =
connecting three new media writers with three video artists and a sound =
artist to work together online to create an original piece to be =
premiered at Incubation. Application time for this is likely to be short =
- current planning is to invite applications from new media writers =
during the month of December only. The video artists and sound artist =
will be based in the East Midlands and will be separately appointed. =
Register for updates to receive further information: =
http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/informed.cfm

Incubation is generously supported by
Arts Council England: East Midlands: =
http://www.artscouncil.org.uk/aboutus/myregion_eastmidlands.html
NESTA: http://www.nesta.org.uk/ through Writers for the Future: =
http://www.writersforthefuture.com/

For further information please contact Catherine Gillam at =
incubation@ntu.ac.uk or by telephoning +44 (0)115 8483533.


the trAce Online Writing Centre
trace@ntu.ac.uk
http://trace.ntu.ac.uk
The Nottingham Trent University
Clifton, Nottingham NG11 8NS, UK
Tel: + 44 (0) 115 848 6360
Fax:  + 44 (0) 115 848 6364


You have received this mail because you visited the trAce site and =
registered to be kept informed of
our activities. If you would like to be removed from this database, =
please send an email to
trace@ntu.ac.uk with the subject line UNSUB REGISTER. Please be sure =
that you send the email from
the address with which you registered, or give your name in the body of =
your email.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:35:36 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "Shankar, Ravi (English)" 
Subject:      Re: call the CALL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please disregard the last message; an inadvertent stutter while cleaning =
out my inbox.=20

-RS=20
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:52:55 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         furniture_ press 
Subject:      Open Submissions for Hydrant
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0

Ev'

I am requesting a number of materials from 50 people who would like to cont=
ribute to the Hydrant project.

I have made up 50 envelopes, approx 5" X 7" (that I found at the library - =
nice, grainy, brown recycled! envelopes) with a picture of a hydrant on the=
 front.

I need 50 people to send me anything they think will fit in the envelopes, =
ANYTHING! Each contributor gets their own envelope and once the materials a=
re sent to me I will distribute them among the 50 people who submitted, ran=
domly.=20

Open to anyone, everyone.

Please query at this addie or send me materials:

Hydrant Project
c/o Casamassima
19 Murdock Road
Baltimore, MD 21212

Yours,
Christophe Casamassima

www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae

--=20
_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just=
 US$9.95 per year!


Powered by Outblaze
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:32:57 -0500
Reply-To:     Ron Silliman 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ron Silliman 
Subject:      Lucien Carr (1925-2005)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

'Beat' Generation Catalyst Lucien Carr Dies

Fri Jan 28, 7:09 PM ET

By Randall Mikkelsen

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Lucien Carr, a muse and catalyst of the "beat
generation" who brought Jack Kerouac together with other writers to
spark a counterculture revolution, died on Friday in Washington.



He was 79.

Carr, a retired senior editor at the United Press International news
wire service, died at George Washington University Hospital of
complications from cancer treatment, said his longtime companion
Kathleen Silvassy.

Carr was a student at Columbia University in New York in 1944 when he
introduced Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg and William Burroughs, who formed
the literary nucleus of the countercultural "beatnik" movement of the
1950s.

"The beat scene was a circle of friends who just happened to have
three of the most important writers of in the last 50 years in
America, plus some extraordinary minds, including Lucien," said Dennis
McNally, author of the Kerouac biography "Desolate Angel: Jack
Kerouac, the Beat Generation and America."

By some accounts, including his own, Carr played a role in Kerouac's
legendary speedwriting of the breakthrough novel "On the Road," by
supplying a Teletype roll for the manuscript. "I didn't steal it," he
told a co-worker at UPI. "I just stuck it under my arm and brought it
home."

But McNally said he inspected the manuscript recently and found it to
consist of individual sheets of paper taped together. It was possible
Carr supplied the roll for another Kerouac novel, "Dharma Bums," he
said.

"Lucien's impact on Kerouac's thinking and writing was considerably
more important than whether or not he supplied the roll," McNally
said. He said Carr helped instill a notion of "first thought, best
thought," in which the beat writers strived to be closer to the roots
of inspiration and write spontaneously.

Carr served two years on a manslaughter conviction for stabbing dead
an older man, David Kammerer, who had a romantic crush on Carr, and
throwing his body into the Hudson River in 1944.

The conviction cast a pall over the emerging beats who were striving
for authenticity in the gritty urban streets of America, and probably
kept Carr from playing a more public role for the rest of his life,
McNally said.

The killing and Carr's friendship with Burroughs were portrayed in the
2000 movie "Beat." Carr was also portrayed as Kenneth Wood in
Kerouac's novel "The Town and the City."

Carr's 47-year UPI career began after his prison term and spanned most
of the second half of the 20th century. "Lou Carr was a great editor:
calm and unflappable as he handled bulletins and any political crisis
that came in Washington," said former UPI White House correspondent
Helen Thomas. "Young reporters were in awe of him -- some of the
veterans as well."

Carr is also survived by three sons, Simon, Ethan, Caleb - a writer
whose works include the murder mystery "The Alienist," and five
grandchildren. (Additional reporting by Lori Santos)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:51:22 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      Poem:  Callimachus:  Credo
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Callimachus:  Credo


I hate political poems.  Not for me,
the human wad that clogs the great high way.
A love that's everyone's business?  Forget it.  A drink
from the common trough?  No, thanks.  The public:  yuck.    =



                    -- translated from the Greek by Jon Corelis


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:53:24 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "David A. Kirschenbaum" 
Subject:      Re: Poem:  Callimachus:  Credo
In-Reply-To:  <607JaCRzw1360S01.1107021082@uwdvg001.cms.usa.net>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

on 1/29/05 12:51 PM, Jon Corelis at jonc@STANFORDALUMNI.ORG wrote:

> Callimachus:  Credo
>
>
> I hate political poems.  Not for me,
> the human wad that clogs the great high way.
> A love that's everyone's business?  Forget it.  A drink
> from the common trough?  No, thanks.  The public:  yuck.
>
>
> -- translated from the Greek by Jon Corelis

haven't we banned poems from the list yet?

--
David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher
Boog City
330 W.28th St., Suite 6H
NY, NY 10001-4754
For event and publication information:
http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/
T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664)
F: (212) 842-2429
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:54:23 +0100
Reply-To:     Anny Ballardini 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Anny Ballardini 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
In-Reply-To:  <796JabaHS2976S07.1106969966@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've got plenty (gmail invitations) to hand out myself, never did, I
would like to know what it feels like, certainly, if I am in a _good_
mood.

The idea of a minimum of order in the dis/order would be exceptional,
especially if like me you open up your gmail account every 2 or 3 days
to find loads of mails there waiting to be opened & possibly read

but as Joris says, together with others, dis/order contains order thus
why eliminate it?

in an especially good mood,
Anny


On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:39:26 -0800, Jon Corelis  wrote:
> I'm disappointed, though not really surprised, that anyone should feel that
> the posting of poems to a poetics list is inappropriate.  This is the same
> attitude which leads more people than will admit it to skip over the actual
> poetry in the latest issue of any poetry journal they happen to pick up, so
> they can get to the reviews and letters in the back, where the real action is.
>
> The list guidelines say that "the Poetics List exists to support and encourage
> divergent points of view on modern and contemporary poetry and poetics ..."
> How the posting of poems for discussion can be anything but central to the
> support and encouragement of divergent points of view on modern and
> contemporary poetry and poetics is beyond me.
> True, the guidelines explicitly encourage the posting of announcements of
> interest to poets, saying that "Such announcements constitute a core function
> of this list," but note that small but significant article:  announcements are
> one important function of the list, not its only function or its single most
> important one.
>
> I think Pound says somewhere that worthwhile criticism of poetry should
> consist mainly of quotations.  Well, those days are long gone.
>
> Also as long as I'm complaining, why am I getting some messages under this
> heading which look like ascii representations of binary files?  Or is this a
> particularly innovative form of langpo?  (The list guidelines also say that
> all postings to the list should be in text-only format.)
>
> Incidentally, one solution to managing heavy list traffic that works for many
> people is to use Google's Gmail, which has a number of features which are
> especially useful for handling mailing list email.  It's free, but it's in
> beta and you need to be invited to get an account by a current account holder.
> I'm a current account holder there and have a limited number of invitations I
> can give out.  If anyone on this list wants one, send me your email address
> and full name (Google will want it) and I'll send you an invitation if I'm in
> a good mood.
>
> =====================================
> Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org
>
>    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
> =====================================
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:43:07 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Austinwja@AOL.COM
Subject:      Winter 2005 Blackbox
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello everyone,

Now that I have a little more time on my hands (weekend), I can offer a more
fully realized announcement.  The Winter 2005 Blackbox gallery offers works by
David Baptiste Chirot, Andrew Topel, mIEKAL aND, jUStin!katKO, Geof Huth,
Stephen Vincent, Donna Kuhn, Vernon Frazer, Sheila E. Murphy, and Mirela
Roznoveanu.  Enjoy!

To view, go to WilliamJamesAustin.com and follow the Blackbox link.  Stroll
(scroll) through the galleries until you reach the latest "show."

Best, Bill

WilliamJamesAustin.com
KojaPress.com
Amazon.com
BarnesandNobel.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:50:09 +0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         cris cheek 
Subject:      RADIO TAXI - call for sound works
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed

RADIO TAXI

Kirsten Lavers, cris cheek, (TNWK) and Simon Keep invite sound artists=20=

(including writers, poets, visual artists, musicians working with=20
sound) to submit work for a short range FM and internet radio event in=20=

late May and early June 2005.


BACKGROUND
RADIO TAXI  is a Taxi Gallery narrowcast and webcast initiative. Taxi=20
Gallery is literally a black cab situated in a council estate on the=20
outskirts of Cambridge, England. Since Sept 2001, over 25 different=20
artists have made new works in response to the specific context offered=20=

by the gallery and its location. Taxi Gallery is a project that reaches=20=

for an extended conversation with local, national and international=20
audiences (via its website) in response to a broad range of challenging=20=

contemporary artworks, approaches and ideas.

For more info on Taxi Gallery =96 please visit www.taxigallery.org.uk

The translocal or =93glocal=94 philosophy of Taxi Gallery is reflected =
in=20
the forthcoming RADIO TAXI project which will integrate a 3 mile radius=20=

analogue FM broadcast with a worldwide digital transmission via a=20
server capable of handling multiple streams.

RADIO TAXI will be a live(ly) mix of locally originated programmes and=20=

interventions (significant community involvement by neighbourhood=20
residents of all ages will be developed, including several major=20
projects with Coleridge Secondary School and an evolving radio club), a=20=

curated programme of invited sound works and a schedule of sonic art=20
from all over the world.

The Radio Taxi webcast will be technically supported by Liam Wells=20
(Norwich School of Art and Design) of n0media.


Transmission dates:

6pm 27 May =96  6am 31 May  (GMT)
&
6pm 3 June =96 Midnight 5 June (selected highlights)


The selected highlights will remain archived on the Taxi Gallery=20
website for the foreseeable future. An audio CD selection will also be=20=

included in a forthcoming full colour Taxi Gallery publication.



SUBMISSION DETAILS

THERE ARE THREE WAYS TO TAKE PART IN RADIO TAXI:

1.      A 1hour (unedited, raw) field sound recording made at night =
(anytime=20
between dusk and dawn) from a specific location anywhere in the world.=20=

Please include exact details of the location, date and time of the=20
recording.

2.      A recording made for the duration of a taxi journey (see Jan =
Cain=92s=20
=91Ride=92 in the Taxi Gallery web archive). Please include details of =
the=20
journey including departure and arrival destinations and reasons for=20
the journey.

These recordings will be played during the overnight programme during=20
the broadcast period =96 a programme inspired by Jim Jarmusch=92s film=20=

=91Night On Earth=92. All submitted recordings will be fully credited on=20=

the website.

3. Contribute to the curated programme by submitting new or existing=20
sound works that in some way address at least one or more of the=20
following themes:

Neighbourhood   The Commons           Everyday

Location           Transition     Conversation       Collection

Transmission


No other limits and we=92re also happy to receive proposals/ideas for=20
works to be carried out on site or via live =96 streaming. Submissions=20=

should be sent (preferably in audio CD format =96 please get in touch if=20=

this is a problem) with details, credit info and weblinks to:

  38 Stanesfield Rd, Cambridge, CB5 8NH England.

Queries to: info@radiotaxi.org.uk

Submission Deadline: 1 May 2005-01-22 latest =96 though we=92d encourage=20=

early submissions.

WE'D ENCOURAGE YOU TO FORWARD THIS INVITATION WIDELY.

apologies for any cross-posting
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 16:34:59 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mary Jo Malo 
Subject:      a sweet song when you need it most
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

hearts in the waiting room hear each other=20
with downcast eyes see beyond the walls
dance like honey bees worry the open flowers
and calm their willing victim
sucking nectar and pollen sticking  like memories
some words a tongue tickling my ear filling my heart and  brain
a swollen hive exploding honeycombed throat=20
your letters cubed  infinitely
in this late hour a joyful introduction
no longer wonder what=E2=80=99s  true
across the dirty room potted plants and shampooed carpets
the withering blossoms stick to my skin
and I breathe your  smile
a familiar strain to hum along
all is well in the  waiting room
we came in alone and leave together
=20
mary
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:55:06 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "Murray, Christine" 
Subject:      New at Chris Murray's Texfiles
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All--

Inviting you to=20

http://texfiles.blogspot.com=20

where you will find lots of qwertyuiop[]\s history=20
and:=20


--kari edwards of http://transdada.blogspot.com is the latest Texfiles =
Poet of the Week,
with fabulous new poems and photos from hir India journey in December 04

--Brian Clements sends a detailed update on happenings at Sentence=20
and Firewheel Editions (Sentence 3 due out soon, as is Denise Duhamel's =
new book,=20
*Mille et un sentiments*, published by Firewheel--find more info at =
http://www.firewheel-editions.org

--note/link on reading EOAGH, edited by Tim Peterson of =
http://mappemunde.typepad.com,=20
and hosted at Chax Press, http://chax.org=20

--a few words on Tom Murphy's wonderful new fyp chapbook, *first line =
index. 03*
& find lots more of interest at http://brtom.org/tjblog.html

--Happy Birthday to Hoa Nguyen, shining photo of Hoa with infant son, =
Waylon

--visual Venus in Retrograde--via Anny Ballardini's fascinating blog, =
Narcissus Works
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com

--excerpts from Jeanette Winterson's *Written on the Body* (with more to =
come today--
special thanks to the nice comments from Sawako Nakayasu who has been =
traveling in Japan.
check out http://nakayasu.blogspot.com
and http://factorial.org)

--note/link to Skanky Possum Pouch where you will find a fine new poem=20
by Clayton Eshelman, "Chauvet, Left Wall of End Chamber"
http://www.skankypossum.com/pouch

--"Tlunka Tlunka" & "Anonymous"--a few rollicky elastic words of bamboo=20
wind chime & poem-bing from me

--Chris Vitiello's wind-up poems closing his feature as Texfiles Poet of =
the Week--
find more of his fine work at http://the_delay.blogspot.com


along with many other random links, likes, & unruly exposition

Enjoy!



Best Wishes,

Chris Murray
http://texfiles.blogspot.com
http://e-po.blogspot.com=20
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:39:56 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         mIEKAL aND 
Subject:      Fwd: RealPoetik - Kenward Elmslie
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

[I wanna see the bootleg video of this event...]

Begin forwarded message:

> From: owner-realpoetik@scn.org (System Administrator)
> Date: Sat Jan 29, 2005  12:32:11 PM America/Chicago
> To: undisclosed-recipients: ;
> Subject: RealPoetik - Kenward Elmslie
>
> Kenward Elmslie is one of the original New York School poets.  Now in
> his
> late 70s Elmslie continues to publish, and even to perform.  His most
> recent
> performance is in an off-Broadway musical that he's written entitled
> Lingo
> Land which will open on February 7, 2005 at NYC's York Theatre.  He's
> doing
> an eight-hour rehearsal every day before it opens.  Lingo Land has a
> six-week run, and will be open every night except Tuesday and Sunday
> at 8
> pm.  Tickets are $55, but if you call on the day of the performance at
> 212-868-4444 you can get student tickets for $20 if you are a student
> or can
> pass for one.  You can also get tickets at the theatre itself (see
> their web
> page).
>
> Elmslie is a fabulous performer.  If you've never seen him live, then
> you
> simply must do so.  He's the oddest act you will never see if you
> don't go
> to see this show -- an amazing intrusion of honest to goodness NY
> School
> poetry into the musical format.  He often wears bizarre costumes, and
> when
> you leave the theatre you'll be singing along to his odd lyrics in the
> back
> of your mind for decades to come.  There will be music by Ned Rorem and
> others and there will be projected paintings by Red Grooms, Joe
> Brainerd,
> Alex Katz, and other friends of Kenward.  Blue state culture doesn't
> get any
> bluer.  Don't miss it.  York Theatre is at 619 Lexington Ave.  54th
> Street
> is the cross-street.
>
> ELEGY FOR LOOSHA
>
> Ambidextrous eliminators, langorous Elvises,
> get roughed up bad by soused chimpanzees
> notating your daily round.  Like me, all Elvises
> are riveted by visceral effluvia: human ashes
> sifting down from a huggable blue bowl --
>       zenith of a prairie sky.
>
> A recurrent street screech exacerbates my stage-fright
> at windows of, building opposite -- starer-outers,
> lotus-eaters flogging their dot.com wounds.
> Dead skin spin-offs flake onto a wondrous panoply,
> similar to my dreams of a fertile nation
> of miscreant beloveds who can replicate,
> post-impact, Vanilla Conga, back aways
>       a flame dance, so they say.


"The word is the first stereotype."  Isidore Isou, 1947.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:00:39 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Joe Brennan 
Subject:      'Jackpots For Crackpots' Program Exposed
Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 Click here: The Assassinated Press
http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/

'Jackpots For Crackpots' Program Exposed:
Bush Urges Rove To Find 'More Subterfuginous Ways' To Funnel Taxpayer Money
For Agitpropiteers:
"I may not know how much a whole lotta nines are. But if I don't, there's
somebody on my staff who does."
So Many Crackpots. So Little Tax Revenue; Bush's Tax Cuts Hamper
Administration's Propaganda Campaign:
How Much De Facto Taxpayer Money Do O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Liddy, William
Kristol, Chuckie Krauthammer, Rick Sanitorium, Tony Blanklely, Fred Barnes et al Rip
& Run To Live Lavishly On The Spin Cycle?:
By BOWAND KURTZY




They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.

".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in
the
sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful
language
of power.  There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or
hypocritical,
whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks.  The dominating
impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed
good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured

forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter
house.
One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first
giving
free reign to this hubbub of voices...."
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:15:24 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Camille Martin 
Subject:      CFP for MLA'05: Source Texts in Contemporary Experimental Poetry
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Pastiches and Palimtexts: The Use of Source Texts in Contemporary
Experimental Poetry

This special session proposed for the 2005 MLA Convention will investigate
the use of source texts by contemporary experimental poets in the
composition process. I am using as a springboard Michael Davidson's term
"palimtext," by which he emphasizes "the intertextual - and
inter-discursive - quality of postmodern writing as well as its
materiality."

Examples - to name only a handful of myriad possibilities of such
intertextuality - include "erasures" of source texts (as in Igor
Satanovsky's "Shakespeare's sonnets revis[it]ed); homolinguistic
translations (such as Robert Kelly's _Unquell the Dawn Now_ and Lisa
Cooper's _& Calling It Home_); collaged texts using popular media (as in
Karen Mac Cormack and Alan Halsey's _Fit to Print_, Hannah Weiner's
_Weeks_, and Kenneth Goldsmith's _Day_); and the use of historic texts as
sources (as in Susan Howe's _Eikon Basilika_ and many of Robin Blaser's
poems).

In addition, journals of contemporary poetry regularly highlight
intertextual work. For example, _POM2_ asks submitters to borrow from or
somehow transform poems published in previous issues. And _Chain_ recently
published an issue surrounding the theme of borrowed texts.

The focus in this session will be the theorizing of such intertextuality:
the social and philosophical implications of avant-garde intertextuality
for communal language and the blurring of authorial boundaries.

One example of such exploration would be the dialogical relationship
between source text(s) and resulting text - in other words, the process by
which a poet mediates the cultural and historical legacy of a source text
and the position(s) of the resulting poem (ironic, complicit, critical) in
relation to the source. As Jen Bevin has it in her introduction to her book
of "erasures" of Shakespeare sonnets: "When we write poems, the history of
poetry is with us, pre-inscribed in the white of the page." What effect
does the cultural baggage of the source text have on the resulting work?

Email a 350-word abstract by March 1 to .

Works Consulted

Benjamin, Walter. "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction."
In _Illuminations_. Trans. Harry Zohn. New York: Harcourt, Brace & World,
1968.

Bervin, Jen. _Nets_. Brooklyn: Ugly Duckling Presse, 2004.

Davidson, Michael. "Palimtexts: Postmodern Poetry and the Material Text."
In _Postmodern Genres_. Edited by Marjorie Perloff. University of Oklahoma
Press, 1989.

Dworkin, Craig. _Reading the Illegible_. Chicago: Northwestern UP, 2003.


Camille Martin, Ph.D.
City College
Loyola University
6363 St. Charles Avenue
New Orleans, LA 70118
office: (504) 865-3530
home: (504) 865-7821
http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/martinc/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 01:13:10 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Daniel Carter 
Subject:      there was a notion here left unlabeled
In-Reply-To:  <20050124.024758.-191513.26.skyplums@juno.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

{ }


a word here and the air is gold teeth rue the rooking class zero out
the mother end t' be kin wit for what might seem no use the trial yet
another go 'round but why when the improvement is ever so slight t'
backwards from one round to the other perspective not referred to
completely outside the unrealm of time or some such adjustment period
change-up sequence seek whence again 'n' why for what purpose ask
sincerely



--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:02:39 -0500
Reply-To:     editor@pavementsaw.org
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         David Baratier 
Organization: Pavement Saw Press
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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David & Jon--

This is a poetics list
not a poetry list

so while poetry is not banned
like most of society

there is little need for it.
Join a poetry list if you need poetry.

Bruce, Alan has left the list if that alleviates
your quandry, maybe noodle

& jeff will finally
give it up also.

Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
PO Box 6291
Columbus OH 43206
USA

http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 01:58:51 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Daniel Carter 
Subject:      black-bagged
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

{ }



black-bagged city garbage kept even fresher by the snow








--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:02:54 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: a sweet song when you need it most
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

cube me
ducio
move me from the church
to the museum
i am backlit
upfront
i am looked at
rather than looked
into

within the quietude there is
a rumble
not a quiet rumble
but a soothing agitation
bright dark blues
a fusion of frontlit
& background

i must save myself
from this
body
save myself from this
game

9 pin wobbling
8 ball in the side
wrecklessly careful &
now this

remember the place we went to
that had those
beethoven beer mugs?

                                                        steve dalachinsky
 nyc  1/29/05



no vision
printed on the eyelids w/the quiet
of the
rumble

detect & reinvent

save yourself from yourself
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:22:49 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

please tell me oh high falutin ones

what is the definition of poetics?

before you drive us all away all  of us what is we're called?

pray tell  TELL
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:05:54 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original

Alan may have left - but his reason may have been also his sensitivity to
the issue of Zionism etc I can understand that .. maybe he is wrong to leave
or is leaving for what I might say are the wrong reasons but if he feels
about it then that is the best thing for him to do maybe for now...

I always found /still find what he was/is doing interesting
- couldn't always read everything -

It sounds as if David Baratier wants these guys and others (everyone?)  to
stop contributing poetry! Or does he? His missive is ambiguous... How can
you have poetics without poetry - Bruce Andrews is a talented poet - I don't
know what he is doing now - but I liked e.g. "Give 'Em Enough Rope"  ... his
ideas of restructuring - if related or limited to the digest form are ok -
but perhaps if he was implying poetry should be canned on the list - but it
didn't seem he was - then that is not good -  as well as Alan and Jeff there
were some others and myself who contributed poetry - and some of the Vispos
send links - Jon hasn't been answered - his point and mine was that poetics
includes the practice of writing poetry - as well as debating and so on -
poetry and criticism in postmodern terms cannot necessarily be separated.

Where do you stand on this David (where do others  stand also?) - do you
want poetry on here or not - or do you want announcements only or no
politics (despite that  the political nature of poetry was Bernstein's and
Andrew's and Silliman's plank for years - they said things like: "...Poetry
then can refuse to be in the service of capitalism by being
"untranslatable"...In a commodity society..poetry can refuse an
exchange-value to make itself available as use-value,...".  (Bruce Andrew in
the big section "Writing and Politics" in the Language book.)

And if say only "poetics"  - is Bernstein wrong in saying (or
implying/inferring) that philosophy in certain instances can or may be a
kind of poetry? Thus sometimes Sartre's "Being and Nothingness", with its
polysemy etc is closer or is in the or a mode of being to being a kind of
poem, while Sartre's works such as "Nausea" is closer to being
"philosophy"[which is good for me as it find it easier to read and its one
of my favourite books!!] - and also sometimes the essential difference
(between say philosophy and poetry or poetics and poetry) is the mode or the
"manner of speaking" or the "method of discourse" and certain repeated
signifiers or signals in philosophic talk so to speak - as in Bernstein's
essay  'Writing and Method' in "In The American Tree" .

"Commonsense" tells us that, mostly, poetry is not poetics - the language
maybe has to be appropriate - trouble is what is appropriate -I think we
decide some of such things very quickly as we are social animals or we think
we are sure certain ways of speaking/writing or signaling are or are not
appropriate. But at the edge between poetry/poetics -where is that dividing
point? We poets are, presumably, more or less "strange" members of the
social group so maybe we can discard or be suspicious of "commonsense"..?

What then is poetics? Jon's comments/question haven't really been answered
except by enigmatic cryptic cyber grunts and or laconical snipes ("I thought
we had banned poetry") - someone's "appreciation" of his translation from
the Greek of a poem by Callimachus?

If poetry can also be seen as a mode of poetry or poetry a kind of
 poetics -see Bernstein's book: "A Poetics " -a lot of which is in the form
of a poem as your letter was/is.. (in a kind of "traditional " couplet
form)...  and if we cant - or have trouble deciding what is a "better"
poem - then the more poems (of various styles and forms) on here the
better...as we will all be engaging in or be part of what poetics is - if
not poetics in totum.

Or should we exclude poetry on here totally?And even links to poetry or
Vispo, as such things are extraneous and possibly to disturbing to some
here - and announcements often refer to poetry (indirectly) - perhaps they
should be banned also - unless in a special code form so as we cant read or
translate the announcements...after all poets are all mad so we should maybe
never turn up to things on the right day /time/place etc etc - but that is
probably being too silly...


Richard Taylor

Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile:

----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice
cream."------------------

Aspect Books
(N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Baratier" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Digest restructuring


> David & Jon--
>
> This is a poetics list
> not a poetry list
>
> so while poetry is not banned
> like most of society
>
> there is little need for it.
> Join a poetry list if you need poetry.
>
> Bruce, Alan has left the list if that alleviates
> your quandry, maybe noodle
>
> & jeff will finally
> give it up also.
>
> Be well
>
> David Baratier, Editor
>
> Pavement Saw Press
> PO Box 6291
> Columbus OH 43206
> USA
>
> http://pavementsaw.org
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>
>



--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:04:17 -0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Lawrence Upton 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

1
I always suspected some people don't need poetry for their poetics!

I put that idea along with hot-desking and destroying towns to free them. Or
perhaps a coach trip to see the country through glass.

Truly an idea for our times

2
You need to have that space, lots of it, for absent friends to return and
newcomers to join

L

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Baratier" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: Digest restructuring


> David & Jon--
>
> This is a poetics list
> not a poetry list
>
> so while poetry is not banned
> like most of society
>
> there is little need for it.
> Join a poetry list if you need poetry.
>
> Bruce, Alan has left the list if that alleviates
> your quandry, maybe noodle
>
> & jeff will finally
> give it up also.
>
> Be well
>
> David Baratier, Editor
>
> Pavement Saw Press
> PO Box 6291
> Columbus OH 43206
> USA
>
> http://pavementsaw.org
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:42:02 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Murat Nemet-Nejat 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am sorry to hear that Alan has left the list. His posts have been an
integral part of it, something connecting me to its past, regardless of whether I
read everything he posted or not.

When I first joined the list, the messages were full of posts by people about
books they read, a significant number of which I personally had not heard of
or its substance I disagreeed with. Nevertheless, the posts had an
intellectual substance to which one could react, positively or negatively or ironically.
Chains of discussions, reflecting the ethos of the time, developed.

Nobody seems to read any books or bring them to the posts any more. Rather,
discussions, rartely when they do occur, are restatements of already held
beliefs, rarely going anywhere. Announcements of upcoming events and postings of
poems were always part of the list, at least, ever since I joined it. They
become so prominent because the other part is (discusiion of books people are
reading at the moment) is missing.

I do not quite know why this is so. Perhaps other lists replaced this
function, I am not an expert on them. Or maybe blogs have overtaken this function,
though I personally doubt it. A blog is generated by one person. Whether an
authentic discussion develops around his/her inputs (rather than a chorus) depends
whether he/she chooses to react to outsiders' comments. Or, sometimes, I am
stunned how in   blogs entries are made day after day with 0 response to them.
Then the blog becomes a kind of quisi diary, an ambivalent gesture to the
public. For instance, when I read Myread's powerful entries in her blog, directly,
without fuss delienating a life, I wonder how she keeps going writing it, in
contention to solitude. Hers seems to be a new genre between letter and diary.

Well, these are some thoughts.

Murat


In a message dated 01/30/05 1:54:21 AM, editor@PAVEMENTSAW.ORG writes:


> David & Jon--
>
> This is a poetics list
> not a poetry list
>
> so while poetry is not banned
> like most of society
>
> there is little need for it.
> Join a poetry list if you need poetry.
>
> Bruce, Alan has left the list if that alleviates
> your quandry, maybe noodle
>
> & jeff will finally
> give it up also.
>
> Be well
>
> David Baratier, Editor
>
> Pavement Saw Press
> PO Box 6291
> Columbus OH 43206
> USA
>
> http://pavementsaw.org
>

In a message dated 01/30/05 1:54:21 AM, editor@PAVEMENTSAW.ORG writes:


> David & Jon--
>
> This is a poetics list
> not a poetry list
>
> so while poetry is not banned
> like most of society
>
> there is little need for it.
> Join a poetry list if you need poetry.
>
> Bruce, Alan has left the list if that alleviates
> your quandry, maybe noodle
>
> & jeff will finally
> give it up also.
>
> Be well
>
> David Baratier, Editor
>
> Pavement Saw Press
> PO Box 6291
> Columbus OH 43206
> USA
>
> http://pavementsaw.org
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:28:23 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      An eclectic collection of various comments
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This place has as many begging questions as San Francisco has begging
homeless.  Now comes one saying that poems shouldn't be posted to a poeti=
cs
list because a poetics list isn't an appropriate place for posting poems.=
 =

This was in reply to my argument that poems ought to be posted to a poeti=
cs
list because they form the necessary raw material for discussions of poet=
ics. =

My reason may be valid or invalid, but at least I gave one.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Incidentally it didn't seem to register on anyone that the translation of=

Callimachus I posted is both a poem and in the strictest sense a statemen=
t of
a poetics.  In fact, it's one of the most famous statements of a poetics =
in
classical antiquity.  Do I have to explain everything?

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =


The tradition of the horrific effects of Aesychlus's stagecraft is found =
in a
scholiast somewhere -- I've read it but I forget now where -- so it's not=
 a
contemporary report and may well be legendary:  ancient commentators were=

often rather uncritical.  Still, there's that Italian saying about how if=
 it
ain't true it shoulda been.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

We shouldn't be too harsh on people who ask if the ancient poets were rea=
lly
all they're supposed to be.  If all you have to go on for the ancient
tragedians are English translations, it's very hard to see what the fuss =
is
about, though with a little study and assistance you can appreciate the
stagecraft, if not the poetry.  Seeing productions of the plays by a
knowledgeable director can be immensely useful.  In the summer of 2002 I =
saw
Euripides' Bacchae performed at Epidaurus by the Royal National Theatre o=
f
Great Britain under the direction of Peter Hall.  The English translation=
 was,
I thought, only adequate, but watching the performance I saw how it conve=
yed
the nature of the original in ways that you could never get from reading =
it in
translation, and I even gained new insights into the play myself, ones wh=
ich I
hadn't gotten from reading it in the original text.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

As for the nature of the Greek dramatists' verse, all I can suggest if yo=
u're
not going to learn Greek is to look at a lot of fifth century b.c. Attic =
art
-- the Parthenon sculptures and vase paintings -- and try to imagine a po=
etry
that sounds like those things look.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Michael Hoerman's "The Woodsman and the Nixie" for me incarnates the esse=
nce
of American boyhood.  Or at least the way it used to be.  Now days kids s=
ee it
all on the internet.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Mary Jo Malo's "a sweet song when you need it most" is the kind of poem I=
 find
frustrating because it's good.  It's good because it has an assured tone =
and
subtle verbal effects and suggests an intriguing story.  The problem is t=
he
"suggests:"  it seems like this poem is one which requires an understandi=
ng of
the event (fictional or not) which it's based on for us to understand the=

import of its ostensible statement, but there's an unaccountable coyness =
about
telling us what that story is.  The poem would have been more understanda=
ble
if I could have understood it.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Please note that the previous paragraph is a discussion of poetics based =
on a
poem.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Quote of the day:  =


          Style and its opposite can alternate, but form must =

          be full, sphere-like, single.

                          --W. B. Yeats


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:40:33 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "David A. Kirschenbaum" 
Subject:      Re: An eclectic collection of various comments
In-Reply-To:  <235JadR7r7424S16.1107109703@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

on 1/30/05 1:28 PM, Jon Corelis at jonc@STANFORDALUMNI.ORG wrote:

> This place has as many begging questions as San Francisco has begging
> homeless.  Now comes one saying that poems shouldn't be posted to a poetics
> list because a poetics list isn't an appropriate place for posting poems.
> This was in reply to my argument that poems ought to be posted to a poetics
> list because they form the necessary raw material for discussions of poetics.
> My reason may be valid or invalid, but at least I gave one.


jon,

pay no attention to baratier's email. i've known him for years, personally
and professionally, and as many poetics listers can tell you he's one to
have some fun with people on the list.

i'm also wondering why you needed to begin your email by referencing the
homeless in san francisco.

best,
david

--
David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher
Boog City
330 W.28th St., Suite 6H
NY, NY 10001-4754
For event and publication information:
http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/
T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664)
F: (212) 842-2429
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:19:12 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         amy king 
Subject:      Re: An eclectic collection of various comments
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> pay no attention to baratier's email. i've known him
> for years, personally> and professionally, and as
many poetics listers can> tell you he's one to> have
some fun with people on the list.


And note the couplet form (if memory serves after
deletion) by which Baratier sent his message - a tip
off ...
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:58:40 +0100
Reply-To:     Anny Ballardini 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Anny Ballardini 
Subject:      Re: An eclectic collection of various comments
In-Reply-To:  <20050130191912.12196.qmail@web81108.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Jon,

this:
_
As for the nature of the Greek dramatists' verse, all I can suggest if you're
not going to learn Greek is to look at a lot of fifth century b.c. Attic art
-- the Parthenon sculptures and vase paintings -- and try to imagine a poetry
that sounds like those things look.
_

together with Russian literature/art makes me wonder why I didn't
study Greek and Russian before

it often happens.
Take care, Anny
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:06:21 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Poetics List Administration 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Dear all: although I like Bruce's suggestions for restructuring the
digest form of the list, unfortunately Jim Andrews is right--the
listserv software does not currently allow us to change the way digest
works.  But there are a couple of solutions to unwieldiness--the first
of which would be for posters to accompany subject lines with,
say, "[announcement]" or "[poem]" (any more categories than these
would, I think, over-determine the list).  The problem with this,
though, is that I/we can only encourage posters to do so--there's
really no way to enforce it except by including a note in the welcome
message that states the merits of indicating whether a post is an
announcement or a poem.

The other solution, the best solution, is for subscribers to choose a
different form of receiving the list.  Using index html rather than
regular digest just gives subscribers a list of the subject-headings
of messages which are links that can then be clicked on--in fact
you'll find that reading the list online is much more wieldy than
reading it via email.  Directions for changing your subscription
options are outlined in the welcome message which I'll send out again
in a few moments.

About posting poems in general: it's definitely regrettable that Alan
has unsubscribed from the list--especially since his work frequently
provoked discussion.  What I'd like to see happen more often is
posters adhere to the aim of the list which is to promote the
discussion of poetics and/or the exchange of announcements;  if a
subscriber's posting of their poems is not contributing to these list
aims then they should cease posting them.

As always, please do feel free to get in touch with me if you have any
thoughts, questions, comments etc.!

best,
Lori Emerson
listserv moderator
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:21:08 -0700
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jonathan Penton 
Subject:      [announcement] and [poem] headings
In-Reply-To:  <1107115581.41fd3e3db446d@mail1.buffalo.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Poetics List Administration wrote:

>Dear all: although I like Bruce's suggestions for restructuring the
>digest form of the list, unfortunately Jim Andrews is right--the
>listserv software does not currently allow us to change the way digest
>works.  But there are a couple of solutions to unwieldiness--the first
>of which would be for posters to accompany subject lines with,
>say, "[announcement]" or "[poem]" (any more categories than these
>would, I think, over-determine the list).  The problem with this,
>though, is that I/we can only encourage posters to do so--there's
>really no way to enforce it except by including a note in the welcome
>message that states the merits of indicating whether a post is an
>announcement or a poem.
>
>The other solution, the best solution, is for subscribers to choose a
>different form of receiving the list.  Using index html rather than
>regular digest just gives subscribers a list of the subject-headings
>of messages which are links that can then be clicked on--in fact
>you'll find that reading the list online is much more wieldy than
>reading it via email.  Directions for changing your subscription
>options are outlined in the welcome message which I'll send out again
>in a few moments.
>
>About posting poems in general: it's definitely regrettable that Alan
>has unsubscribed from the list--especially since his work frequently
>provoked discussion.  What I'd like to see happen more often is
>posters adhere to the aim of the list which is to promote the
>discussion of poetics and/or the exchange of announcements;  if a
>subscriber's posting of their poems is not contributing to these list
>aims then they should cease posting them.
>
>As always, please do feel free to get in touch with me if you have any
>thoughts, questions, comments etc.!
>
>best,
>Lori Emerson
>listserv moderator
>
>
>
>
I would love to see [announcement] and [poem] headings, which could be
stripped if the poem (or announcement) resulted in a discussion.

--
Jonathan Penton
http://www.unlikelystories.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:25:43 -0500
Reply-To:     pmetres@jcu.edu
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Philip Metres 
Subject:      Found Poetry origins and theories
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Folks,

I'm thinking about the origins of so-called "Found" Poetry in
order to consider recent googling procedures like "Flarf";
clearly the modernists were conceptualizing "found" objects
(collagists, Duchamps' fountain, etc.), and the mod poets
were using "found" materials.

Has any good criticism or theory been written on the poetics
and problematics of "found" art/lit?

And how does Bern Porter figure into these things?  He seems
to have collected a few volumes on the subject.

On or offlist as appropriate.  Thanks in advance for your
insights,




Philip Metres
Assistant Professor
Department of English
John Carroll University
20700 N. Park Blvd
University Heights, OH 44118
(216) 397-4528 (work)
http://www.philipmetres.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:26:42 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Poetics List Administration 
Subject:      please review | Welcome Message
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Dear all: please take a few minutes to review the guidelines, rules &
regs. for the listserv as listed below--

all best, Lori
listserv moderator



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------

E N D  O F  P O E T I C S   L I S T  W E L C O M E  M E S S A G E
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:07:29 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mary Jo Malo 
Subject:      for jon corelis - eclectic comments- sweet songs
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My poem was a poetic reply to steve's post:

steve dalchinsky bellevue
hospital waiting room nyc 1/27/05

"Mary Jo Malo's "a sweet song when you need it most" is the kind of poem I
find
frustrating because it's good.  It's good because it has an assured  tone and
subtle verbal effects and suggests an intriguing story.  The  problem is the
"suggests:"  it seems like this poem is one which  requires an understanding
of
the event (fictional or not) which it's based on  for us to understand the
import of its ostensible statement, but there's an unaccountable coyness
about
telling us what that story is."
----------------------------------
Mary Jo Malo
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:17:43 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Poetics List Administration 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
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Dear all, just one more note: Some subscribers may not be aware that
posts to the list are immediately available on the web archive for the
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message to the list; anyone can read the archive.

The archive's URL is

http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html


best, Lori
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:31:36 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jon Corelis 
Subject:      Re: An eclectic collection of various comments
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Anny Ballardini:  Thanks for the comment, and remember it's never too lat=
e to
learn a language.  (In retirement I plan to learn either Yiddish or Egypt=
ian
hieroglyph, I haven't decided which yet.)

Mary Jo Malo:  Sorry, I can't keep up with all the list mail so I couldn'=
t put
together those two pieces.  I like the way you use language though.

David Baratier:  Ok it was exmicturation but that sort of thing doesn't c=
ome
across clearly in emails.

David A. Kirschenbaum:  Actually it was to hint a moral point en passant =
about
a society in which human wretchedness has become as normal as streetlight=
s but
apparently that sort of thing doesn't either.

Bonus quote:

                 There ain't no sanity clause.

                                   -- Chico Marx


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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org   =


    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
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____________________________________________________________________
   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:57:22 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      return, comment, meditation
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  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

--0-1547651220-1107122242=:14017
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN; format=flowed
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I'm returning after cooling down. I do think that some sort of sifting re:
the digest would be useful; it would also be useful to place creative work
of whatever sort in the Pale, i.e. for those who want it, a separate Pail
or category. That way poetics + announcements =3D Poetics. But one would
have to configure one's own mailbox for that. I recommend gmail for both
culture and debris, however constituted.

The following are some meditations from the past few days on the political
vis-a-vis codework poetics; I can only assume they are on topic. - Alan



    Hajj Rasulullah SAW


    "Tariqa, a 'path', generally a term associated with the Sufi orders"
      (Islam in the Digital Age, Bunt)
    "The 'farewell haj' of Rasulullah" (Virtues of Haj, S.H.M.M.Z.
      Kandhelwi)
    (SALLALLAAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM. Qasidah Burda Shareef IN THIS
    CHAPTER Allamah Busairi RA speaks of his love for
    Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam. ...
    Rasulullah Sallallahu. Alaihi. Wasallam..O Muhammad!
    When he was six years old Rasulullah Sallallahu
    Alaihi Wasallam returned to Makkah. ...
    modesty of Sayyidina Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi
    true Introduction. Preface. 1, Chapter on the noble
    features of Rasulullah. Arabic Chapter. 2, Chapter on the
    Seal of Nubuwwah (Prophethood) of Rasulullah. Arabic Chapter
    true On Monday 12th Rabiul-awwal 11 AH after an illness lasting
    thirteen days, Rasulullah SAW passed away
    .Rasulullah body was given gusal by Hazrat Fadal bin Abbas
    10k true The Turban of Sayyidina Rasulullah. It has
    been related that Sayyidina Rasulullah, sallallahu
    alayhi wa sallam, ordered the wearing of the Turban. ...
    Rahasia Rasulullah untuk Fatimah. Publikasi: 15/12/2004 11:32
    WIB 6285, 6286. Narrated
    Aishah ra, Mother of the believers: We,
    true The Month of Rajab Rasulullah remembered
    1 [Sall
    Allahu alaihi wa Aalihi wa Sallim]. but not
    Rasulullah, Sall Allahu alaihi wa Aalihi wa Sallim
    | Next. The Life of Perfection: Shamail of Rasulullah The
    Life of Perfection: Shamail of Rasulullah. ...
    The Life of Perfection: Shamail of Rasulullah. ...
    THE DYNAMIC PERSONALITY OF RASULULLAH (Sallallaahu Alayhi
    Wasallam). The mission of Rasulullah
    (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) was not an innovation of his own.
    Rasulullah
    m 10k true JEDDAH: The sudden change in the date of
    starting the Hajjj rituals has created confusion among the
    foreign and domestic airlines as well as local Hajjj agents
    ml 67k true Change in Hajj date upsets airlines schedule By
    Rauf Klasra JEDDAH: The sudden change in the date of starting the
    Hajjj rituals has created confusion among the ...
    Change in Hajj date upsets airlines schedule By Rauf Klasra
    JEDDAH: The sudden change in the date of starting the Hajjj
    rituals has created confusion among the ...
    globalization to achieve their own targets. According
    to the message released by the Supreme Leader on the occasion of
    the glorious Hajjj congregation, there ...
    ku n k =3D k ( I ; hA ) u n;1 k jjjI ; hAjjj ku n;1 k
    dapres la denition de lanorme spectrale (voir p.61 du livre).
    On ...
    ctCategory1.html true ajj
    j Hjj
    j Haj
    j Haj
    j Hajjj
    HHajj
    j Haajj
    j Hajjj
    j Hajjj
    j Hajj
    j Hajj
    aHjj
    j Hjaj
    j Hajj
    j Haj
    jj Hajjj
    Hyjj
    j Hsjj ...
    the press conference after touring the governmental
    departments, and after being briefed on the arrangements made for
    this years Hajjj season, Prince Naif Ibn ...
    januari 2005. Whahaha IQ-test. 11 januari 2005. Brand
    Brand! nogmaals: hajjj We hadde today tie day ook een
    oefenbrandallarm zeg maar. ...
    ing
    r ej i Hajjj och Umra ritualer, men n
    r man
    d
    kan kan man inte l
    ta bli att inte bes
    ka och h
    p
    ra profet ...
    of Allah, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful. The Hajj
    Journey. Friday Report - April, 1995. Allah prescribed Hajj ...
    hajjj


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    of the truth of slaughter

    gn34_01.html 4k true Old Testament > Genesis > Rape,
    Iris Chang shows in her ably researched The Rape of Nanking
    and Japanese perpetrators--to the rape and slaughter
    fucking Jews isn't good enough for them hah hah 6m kisses and
    said Rep. Slaughter. ...
    true The crimes committed also include mass rape,
    Unvarnished accounts of the testimony--of Chinese victims
    Treachery, and Slaughter. Gn 34:1 Dinah, the daughter of
    wounded animals or say blinded or half-eaten crawling out of it
    =E2The assault and rape of our military women is one
    caused because we support Israel. What about the rape and
    systematic bestiality =C2 the Japanese rape and
    He carried the eyes of the slaughtered women in a jar, it was un-
    you couldn't make any of this stuff up, dismembered villagers and
    the day of broken horses, their bones through ruptured skin
    45000000 dead what a jpeg that would make daughter rape mother
    we dont create a climate where women feel comfortable
    Violation fabric of everyday life
    mother hold against us terms of slaughter and of daughter
    Mother hold against us terms of slaughter and of daughter
    slaughtered humans in the upper .01% of planetary crust
    Slaughtered humans in the upper .01% of planetary crust
    slaughter in Sudan of Christians by musilims? ...
    slaughter in Sudan of Christians by musilims? ...
    Evolution is the evolution of slaughter, of extinction, not of
    are juxtaposed with public relations rape and slaughter
    of laboratory in which Japanese soldiers were taught to
    To: mlbford2. I agree. The islamists claim that 9/11 was
    To: mlbford2. I agree. The islamists claim that 9/11 was caused
    Out of it he fell forward across the bodies of Verdun
    out of it he fell forward across the bodies of verdun
    fury of soldier's slaughter when death wasn't fast enough
    member of the Red Army was aware of it. ...
    slaughter of the captive populations of ...
    Stalin=E2s order to rape and slaughter, but every
    would rather bother than the other of slaughter natural world
    the slaughter of young boys and the destruction of village
    of slaughter what a horrid bother, she said, looking forward to
    toads slaughtered by parasitic boring through eyes
    seals slaughtered for their furs while the mother of the daughter
    alan sondheim made everything up and none of this is real he wants
    A stick was shoved into her vaginal area; she bled to death, but
    The stories Iris Chang heard were from one of history=C2s worst acts of
    of the worst, most shameful problems facing our nation today,=E2
    reporting their crimes to the military, theyll never come
    Jacob through Leah, went out to meet the young women of the area.
    forward to get the rape kit, Slaughter said.
    you to know
    true true true Rape and Slaughter false values
    slaughter unarmed, unresisting ...
    after village. _____ Todays Op-Eds _____. ...
    because we support Israel. What about the rape and
    army will be crowned with immortal victory!. He did not repeat
    natural world slaughter slaugher of natural world


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


"the lyric poem

"If Auschwitz hadn't happened, if September were another,
"I'd say that you were mine, I'd say we'd stay together,
"In any darkness, weather; if Beirut were filled with flowers,
"Jerusalem a town, I'd say we'd live forever, I'd say we'd be together;
"If Afghanistan were peaceful, if America were other,
"I'd say we're made for one another, I'd say eternity;
"If Rwanda never happened, Sudan were prosperous,
"I'd say we'd love forever, I'd say a god was there, so glorious in us;
"If Israel were milk, and Palestine of honey, and China were so sweet,
"We'd lie together there, I'd say you were the rose,
"All among the fairest; if one voice hadn't happened,
"Another took its place, I'd say your name forever,
"And we would live forever; if September were another,
"A day of bright fall weather, if Auschwitz hadn't happened,
"In any darkness, weather, I'd say that we were peaceful,
"I'd say eternity, if animals still roamed free, if there were animals,
"I'd say a god was there, so glorious in us, all among the fairest;
"If one voice hadn't happened, another took its place."

the lesser vehicle

plasma and fury/ always on the horizon/ universal auschwitz/ triumph
and insistent on the lyric after auschwitz, collaboration
and over from auschwitz
and insistent on the lyric after auschwitz, collaboration
and plasma and fury/ always on the horizon/ universal auschwitz/ triumph
and nervous zoom. will you slip away
and insistent on the lyric after auschwitz, collaboration
and eleven years or so after auschwitz and he's penning
auschwitz later almost by the span of a man or woman,
and insistent on the lyric after auschwitz, collaboration
and the little town called Auschwitz

The Greater Vehicle

If Auschwitz hadn't happened, if September were another,
A day of bright fall weather, if Auschwitz hadn't happened,
This is not enough. We will show Auschwitz. We will not show Auschwitz,
us, our disappearance, the ash of Auschwitz-Baghdad, A-B, the Phoenician
    After Auschwitz and
    Auschwitz.. true and
    lyric poetry after Auschwitz was itself
    poetry after Auschwitz and barbaric ...

    Auschwitz is barbaric true
    that to write lyric poetry after Auschwitz
    and poetry after Auschwitz and true
    and after Auschwitz, and, similarly, there can be
    no lyric poetry after Auschwitz...

    write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is
    write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is
    no lyric poetry after Auschwitz at ./looply.pl line 32 $ looply.pl "no
    poetry after Auschwitz" /usr/local/bin/ksh: looply.pl: not found $
    that writing poetry after Auschwitz is
    No poetry after Auschwitz. 1

    before and after Auschwitz were separated ...
    Auschwitz, no theology: From the chimneys of the
    poetry before and after Auschwitz were
    after Auschwitz, In other words, has the -

    What could that mean?
    m 10 1 false no poetry after Auschwitz at ./looply.pl line 32 $ exit
    Our Auschwitz
    before and after Auschwitz were separated ...

the Index

lt:little town called Auschwitz!
mj:If Auschwitz hadn't happened, if September were another,
mj:A day of bright fall weather, if Auschwitz hadn't happened,
ms:This is not enough. We will show Auschwitz. We will not show Auschwitz;
ms:Auschwitz is a call to war. We will show nuclear explosions and napalm.
ms:Auschwitz. enough. Auschwitz; Auschwitz a call nuclear explosions napalm=
=2E
mx:us, our disappearance, the ash of Auschwitz-Baghdad, A-B, the Phoenician
nd:   After Auschwitz
nd:   Auschwitz.. true
nd:   lyric poetry after Auschwitz was itself
nd:   poetry after Auschwitz is barbaric ...
nd:   Auschwitz is barbaric true
nd:   that to write lyric poetry after Auschwitz
nd:   Auschwitz. true
nd:   after Auschwitz, and, similarly, there can be
nd:   no lyric poetry after Auschwitz.
nd:   write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is
nd:   write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is
nd:   no lyric poetry after Auschwitz at ./looply.pl line 32 $ looply.pl "n=
o
nd:   poetry after Auschwitz" /usr/local/bin/ksh: looply.pl: not found $
nd:   that writing poetry after Auschwitz is
nd:   No poetry after Auschwitz. 1
nd:   before and after Auschwitz were separated ...
nd:   Auschwitz, no theology: From the chimneys of the
nd:   poetry before and after Auschwitz were
nd:   After Auschwitz. canadian danger. true
nd:   No poetry after Auschwitz.
nd:   Auschwitz. true
nd:   after Auschwitz, In other words, has the
nd:   after Auschwitz. > What could that mean?
nd:   m 10 1 false no poetry after Auschwitz at ./looply.pl line 32 $ exit
nd:   Our Auschwitz
nd:   before and after Auschwitz were separated ...
       2=09nd:   write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is
nd:   write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is

The decomposition

Organs the decomposition of the body
RWANDA EAST TIMOR AUSCHWITZ


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


salaam. I WILL VOTE FOR NO ONE.

in reply to #41 I WILL VOTE FOR NO ONE I WILL VOTE FOR "DISAPPEARED"
iraqijew is right in a way. he is your elected president, and even if it
is the way of democracy to question your 2 finding an iraqi niche salaam
finding an iraqi-jewish niche not so easy a personal journey through
culture and spirituality. palestine. I have been thinking of 3 no title no
snippet 4 BUT I DISAPPEAR charlie rose show jews were also leaving for
on-up and opportunities in TIBET. posts. 5 I WAS HERE charlie rose show
however, jews were also leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET.
posts. 6 gamespy forums in reply to #41 I WILL VOTE FOR NO ONE I WILL VOTE
for "DISAPPEARED" iraqijew is right in a way. he is your elected
president, and even if it is the way of democracy to question your 7
finding an iraqi niche salaam finding an iraqi-jewish niche not so easy a
personal journey through culture and spirituality. palestine. I have been
thinking of 8 no title no snippet 9 charlie rose show jews were also
leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET. posts. 10 charlie rose show
however, jews were also leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET.
posts. 11 gamespy forums in reply to #41 I WILL VOTE FOR NO ONE I WILL
VOTE FOR "DISAPPEARED" iraqijew is right in a way. he is your elected
president, and even if it is the way of democracy to question your 12
finding an iraqi niche salaam finding an iraqi-jewish niche not so easy a
personal journey through culture and spirituality. palestine. I have been
thinking of 13 no title no snippet 14 BUT I DISAPPEAR charlie rose show
jews were also leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET. posts. 15 I
WAS HERE charlie rose show however, jews were also leaving for on-up and
opportunities in TIBET. posts. 16 gamespy forums in reply to #41 I WILL
VOTE FOR NO ONE I WILL VOTE FOR "DISAPPEARED" iraqijew is right in a way.
he is your elected president, and even if it is the way of democracy to
question your 17 finding an iraqi niche salaam finding an iraqi-jewish
niche not so easy a personal journey through culture and spirituality.
palestine. I have been thinking of 18 no title no snippet 19 charlie rose
show jews were also leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET. posts.
20 charlie rose show however, jews were also leaving for on-up and
opportunities in TIBET. posts. 21 gamespy forums in reply to #41 I WILL
VOTE FOR NO ONE I WILL VOTE FOR "DISAPPEARED" iraqijew is right in a way.
he is your elected president, and even if it is the way of democracy to
question your 22 finding an iraqi niche salaam finding an iraqi-jewish
niche not so easy a personal journey through culture and spirituality.
palestine. I have been thinking of 23 no title no snippet 24 BUT I
DISAPPEAR charlie rose show jews were also leaving for on-up and
opportunities in TIBET. posts. 25 I WAS HERE charlie rose show however,
jews were also leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET. posts. posts.
posts. posts.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


for kenneth patchen

when christ spoke on the mount
the winds were terrible
people couldn't see 'im
quite a distance, they said, later
quite a distance
and the winds and the clouds
the storms, too, the weather was furious
so they wrote what they thought they heard
and spoke what they thought they saw
and chances were pretty good
that he wasn't there at all
http://www.asondheim.org/mount.mov

_
--0-1547651220-1107122242=:14017--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:23:02 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Pierre Joris 
Subject:      Re: return, comment, meditation
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

welcome back, alan! -- pierre

On Jan 30, 2005, at 4:57 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote:

>
>
> I'm returning after cooling down. I do think that some sort of sifting =
=20
> re:
> the digest would be useful; it would also be useful to place creative =20=

> work
> of whatever sort in the Pale, i.e. for those who want it, a separate =20=

> Pail
> or category. That way poetics + announcements =3D Poetics. But one =
would
> have to configure one's own mailbox for that. I recommend gmail for =20=

> both
> culture and debris, however constituted.
>
> The following are some meditations from the past few days on the =20
> political
> vis-a-vis codework poetics; I can only assume they are on topic. - =
Alan
>
>
>
>    Hajj Rasulullah SAW
>
>
>    "Tariqa, a 'path', generally a term associated with the Sufi =
orders"
>      (Islam in the Digital Age, Bunt)
>    "The 'farewell haj' of Rasulullah" (Virtues of Haj, S.H.M.M.Z.
>      Kandhelwi)
>    (SALLALLAAHU ALAYHI WASALLAM. Qasidah Burda Shareef IN THIS
>    CHAPTER Allamah Busairi RA speaks of his love for
>    Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam. ...
>    Rasulullah Sallallahu. Alaihi. Wasallam..O Muhammad!
>    When he was six years old Rasulullah Sallallahu
>    Alaihi Wasallam returned to Makkah. ...
>    modesty of Sayyidina Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi
>    true Introduction. Preface. 1, Chapter on the noble
>    features of Rasulullah. Arabic Chapter. 2, Chapter on the
>    Seal of Nubuwwah (Prophethood) of Rasulullah. Arabic Chapter
>    true On Monday 12th Rabiul-awwal 11 AH after an illness lasting
>    thirteen days, Rasulullah SAW passed away
>    .Rasulullah body was given gusal by Hazrat Fadal bin Abbas
>    10k true The Turban of Sayyidina Rasulullah. It has
>    been related that Sayyidina Rasulullah, sallallahu
>    alayhi wa sallam, ordered the wearing of the Turban. ...
>    Rahasia Rasulullah untuk Fatimah. Publikasi: 15/12/2004 11:32
>    WIB 6285, 6286. Narrated
>    Aishah ra, Mother of the believers: We,
>    true The Month of Rajab Rasulullah remembered
>    1 [Sall
>    Allahu alaihi wa Aalihi wa Sallim]. but not
>    Rasulullah, Sall Allahu alaihi wa Aalihi wa Sallim
>    | Next. The Life of Perfection: Shamail of Rasulullah The
>    Life of Perfection: Shamail of Rasulullah. ...
>    The Life of Perfection: Shamail of Rasulullah. ...
>    THE DYNAMIC PERSONALITY OF RASULULLAH (Sallallaahu Alayhi
>    Wasallam). The mission of Rasulullah
>    (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) was not an innovation of his own.
>    Rasulullah
>    m 10k true JEDDAH: The sudden change in the date of
>    starting the Hajjj rituals has created confusion among the
>    foreign and domestic airlines as well as local Hajjj agents
>    ml 67k true Change in Hajj date upsets airlines schedule By
>    Rauf Klasra JEDDAH: The sudden change in the date of starting the
>    Hajjj rituals has created confusion among the ...
>    Change in Hajj date upsets airlines schedule By Rauf Klasra
>    JEDDAH: The sudden change in the date of starting the Hajjj
>    rituals has created confusion among the ...
>    globalization to achieve their own targets. According
>    to the message released by the Supreme Leader on the occasion of
>    the glorious Hajjj congregation, there ...
>    ku n k =3D k ( I ; hA ) u n;1 k jjjI ; hAjjj ku n;1 k
>    dapres la denition de lanorme spectrale (voir p.61 du livre).
>    On ...
>    ctCategory1.html true ajj
>    j Hjj
>    j Haj
>    j Haj
>    j Hajjj
>    HHajj
>    j Haajj
>    j Hajjj
>    j Hajjj
>    j Hajj
>    j Hajj
>    aHjj
>    j Hjaj
>    j Hajj
>    j Haj
>    jj Hajjj
>    Hyjj
>    j Hsjj ...
>    the press conference after touring the governmental
>    departments, and after being briefed on the arrangements made for
>    this years Hajjj season, Prince Naif Ibn ...
>    januari 2005. Whahaha IQ-test. 11 januari 2005. Brand
>    Brand! nogmaals: hajjj We hadde today tie day ook een
>    oefenbrandallarm zeg maar. ...
>    ing
>    r ej i Hajjj och Umra ritualer, men n
>    r man
>    d
>    kan kan man inte l
>    ta bli att inte bes
>    ka och h
>    p
>    ra profet ...
>    of Allah, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful. The Hajj
>    Journey. Friday Report - April, 1995. Allah prescribed Hajj ...
>    hajjj
>
>
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
> =3D
>
>
>    of the truth of slaughter
>
>    gn34_01.html 4k true Old Testament > Genesis > Rape,
>    Iris Chang shows in her ably researched The Rape of Nanking
>    and Japanese perpetrators--to the rape and slaughter
>    fucking Jews isn't good enough for them hah hah 6m kisses and
>    said Rep. Slaughter. ...
>    true The crimes committed also include mass rape,
>    Unvarnished accounts of the testimony--of Chinese victims
>    Treachery, and Slaughter. Gn 34:1 Dinah, the daughter of
>    wounded animals or say blinded or half-eaten crawling out of it
>    =E2The assault and rape of our military women is one
>    caused because we support Israel. What about the rape and
>    systematic bestiality =C2 the Japanese rape and
>    He carried the eyes of the slaughtered women in a jar, it was un-
>    you couldn't make any of this stuff up, dismembered villagers and
>    the day of broken horses, their bones through ruptured skin
>    45000000 dead what a jpeg that would make daughter rape mother
>    we dont create a climate where women feel comfortable
>    Violation fabric of everyday life
>    mother hold against us terms of slaughter and of daughter
>    Mother hold against us terms of slaughter and of daughter
>    slaughtered humans in the upper .01% of planetary crust
>    Slaughtered humans in the upper .01% of planetary crust
>    slaughter in Sudan of Christians by musilims? ...
>    slaughter in Sudan of Christians by musilims? ...
>    Evolution is the evolution of slaughter, of extinction, not of
>    are juxtaposed with public relations rape and slaughter
>    of laboratory in which Japanese soldiers were taught to
>    To: mlbford2. I agree. The islamists claim that 9/11 was
>    To: mlbford2. I agree. The islamists claim that 9/11 was caused
>    Out of it he fell forward across the bodies of Verdun
>    out of it he fell forward across the bodies of verdun
>    fury of soldier's slaughter when death wasn't fast enough
>    member of the Red Army was aware of it. ...
>    slaughter of the captive populations of ...
>    Stalin=E2s order to rape and slaughter, but every
>    would rather bother than the other of slaughter natural world
>    the slaughter of young boys and the destruction of village
>    of slaughter what a horrid bother, she said, looking forward to
>    toads slaughtered by parasitic boring through eyes
>    seals slaughtered for their furs while the mother of the daughter
>    alan sondheim made everything up and none of this is real he wants
>    A stick was shoved into her vaginal area; she bled to death, but
>    The stories Iris Chang heard were from one of history=C2s worst =
acts =20
> of
>    of the worst, most shameful problems facing our nation today,=E2
>    reporting their crimes to the military, theyll never come
>    Jacob through Leah, went out to meet the young women of the area.
>    forward to get the rape kit, Slaughter said.
>    you to know
>    true true true Rape and Slaughter false values
>    slaughter unarmed, unresisting ...
>    after village. _____ Todays Op-Eds _____. ...
>    because we support Israel. What about the rape and
>    army will be crowned with immortal victory!. He did not repeat
>    natural world slaughter slaugher of natural world
>
>
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
> =3D
>
>
> "the lyric poem
>
> "If Auschwitz hadn't happened, if September were another,
> "I'd say that you were mine, I'd say we'd stay together,
> "In any darkness, weather; if Beirut were filled with flowers,
> "Jerusalem a town, I'd say we'd live forever, I'd say we'd be =
together;
> "If Afghanistan were peaceful, if America were other,
> "I'd say we're made for one another, I'd say eternity;
> "If Rwanda never happened, Sudan were prosperous,
> "I'd say we'd love forever, I'd say a god was there, so glorious in =
us;
> "If Israel were milk, and Palestine of honey, and China were so sweet,
> "We'd lie together there, I'd say you were the rose,
> "All among the fairest; if one voice hadn't happened,
> "Another took its place, I'd say your name forever,
> "And we would live forever; if September were another,
> "A day of bright fall weather, if Auschwitz hadn't happened,
> "In any darkness, weather, I'd say that we were peaceful,
> "I'd say eternity, if animals still roamed free, if there were =
animals,
> "I'd say a god was there, so glorious in us, all among the fairest;
> "If one voice hadn't happened, another took its place."
>
> the lesser vehicle
>
> plasma and fury/ always on the horizon/ universal auschwitz/ triumph
> and insistent on the lyric after auschwitz, collaboration
> and over from auschwitz
> and insistent on the lyric after auschwitz, collaboration
> and plasma and fury/ always on the horizon/ universal auschwitz/ =20
> triumph
> and nervous zoom. will you slip away
> and insistent on the lyric after auschwitz, collaboration
> and eleven years or so after auschwitz and he's penning
> auschwitz later almost by the span of a man or woman,
> and insistent on the lyric after auschwitz, collaboration
> and the little town called Auschwitz
>
> The Greater Vehicle
>
> If Auschwitz hadn't happened, if September were another,
> A day of bright fall weather, if Auschwitz hadn't happened,
> This is not enough. We will show Auschwitz. We will not show =
Auschwitz,
> us, our disappearance, the ash of Auschwitz-Baghdad, A-B, the =20
> Phoenician
>    After Auschwitz and
>    Auschwitz.. true and
>    lyric poetry after Auschwitz was itself
>    poetry after Auschwitz and barbaric ...
>
>    Auschwitz is barbaric true
>    that to write lyric poetry after Auschwitz
>    and poetry after Auschwitz and true
>    and after Auschwitz, and, similarly, there can be
>    no lyric poetry after Auschwitz...
>
>    write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is
>    write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is
>    no lyric poetry after Auschwitz at ./looply.pl line 32 $ looply.pl =20=

> "no
>    poetry after Auschwitz" /usr/local/bin/ksh: looply.pl: not found $
>    that writing poetry after Auschwitz is
>    No poetry after Auschwitz. 1
>
>    before and after Auschwitz were separated ...
>    Auschwitz, no theology: =46rom the chimneys of the
>    poetry before and after Auschwitz were
>    after Auschwitz, In other words, has the -
>
>    What could that mean?
>    m 10 1 false no poetry after Auschwitz at ./looply.pl line 32 $ =
exit
>    Our Auschwitz
>    before and after Auschwitz were separated ...
>
> the Index
>
> lt:little town called Auschwitz!
> mj:If Auschwitz hadn't happened, if September were another,
> mj:A day of bright fall weather, if Auschwitz hadn't happened,
> ms:This is not enough. We will show Auschwitz. We will not show =20
> Auschwitz;
> ms:Auschwitz is a call to war. We will show nuclear explosions and =20
> napalm.
> ms:Auschwitz. enough. Auschwitz; Auschwitz a call nuclear explosions =20=

> napalm.
> mx:us, our disappearance, the ash of Auschwitz-Baghdad, A-B, the =20
> Phoenician
> nd:   After Auschwitz
> nd:   Auschwitz.. true
> nd:   lyric poetry after Auschwitz was itself
> nd:   poetry after Auschwitz is barbaric ...
> nd:   Auschwitz is barbaric true
> nd:   that to write lyric poetry after Auschwitz
> nd:   Auschwitz. true
> nd:   after Auschwitz, and, similarly, there can be
> nd:   no lyric poetry after Auschwitz.
> nd:   write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is
> nd:   write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is
> nd:   no lyric poetry after Auschwitz at ./looply.pl line 32 $ =20
> looply.pl "no
> nd:   poetry after Auschwitz" /usr/local/bin/ksh: looply.pl: not found =
=20
> $
> nd:   that writing poetry after Auschwitz is
> nd:   No poetry after Auschwitz. 1
> nd:   before and after Auschwitz were separated ...
> nd:   Auschwitz, no theology: =46rom the chimneys of the
> nd:   poetry before and after Auschwitz were
> nd:   After Auschwitz. canadian danger. true
> nd:   No poetry after Auschwitz.
> nd:   Auschwitz. true
> nd:   after Auschwitz, In other words, has the
> nd:   after Auschwitz. > What could that mean?
> nd:   m 10 1 false no poetry after Auschwitz at ./looply.pl line 32 $ =20=

> exit
> nd:   Our Auschwitz
> nd:   before and after Auschwitz were separated ...
>       2       nd:   write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is
> nd:   write lyric poetry after Auschwitz is
>
> The decomposition
>
> Organs the decomposition of the body
> RWANDA EAST TIMOR AUSCHWITZ
>
>
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
> =3D
>
>
> salaam. I WILL VOTE FOR NO ONE.
>
> in reply to #41 I WILL VOTE FOR NO ONE I WILL VOTE FOR "DISAPPEARED"
> iraqijew is right in a way. he is your elected president, and even if =20=

> it
> is the way of democracy to question your 2 finding an iraqi niche =20
> salaam
> finding an iraqi-jewish niche not so easy a personal journey through
> culture and spirituality. palestine. I have been thinking of 3 no =20
> title no
> snippet 4 BUT I DISAPPEAR charlie rose show jews were also leaving for
> on-up and opportunities in TIBET. posts. 5 I WAS HERE charlie rose =
show
> however, jews were also leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET.
> posts. 6 gamespy forums in reply to #41 I WILL VOTE FOR NO ONE I WILL =20=

> VOTE
> for "DISAPPEARED" iraqijew is right in a way. he is your elected
> president, and even if it is the way of democracy to question your 7
> finding an iraqi niche salaam finding an iraqi-jewish niche not so =20
> easy a
> personal journey through culture and spirituality. palestine. I have =20=

> been
> thinking of 8 no title no snippet 9 charlie rose show jews were also
> leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET. posts. 10 charlie rose =20=

> show
> however, jews were also leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET.
> posts. 11 gamespy forums in reply to #41 I WILL VOTE FOR NO ONE I WILL
> VOTE FOR "DISAPPEARED" iraqijew is right in a way. he is your elected
> president, and even if it is the way of democracy to question your 12
> finding an iraqi niche salaam finding an iraqi-jewish niche not so =20
> easy a
> personal journey through culture and spirituality. palestine. I have =20=

> been
> thinking of 13 no title no snippet 14 BUT I DISAPPEAR charlie rose =
show
> jews were also leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET. posts. 15 =
=20
> I
> WAS HERE charlie rose show however, jews were also leaving for on-up =20=

> and
> opportunities in TIBET. posts. 16 gamespy forums in reply to #41 I =
WILL
> VOTE FOR NO ONE I WILL VOTE FOR "DISAPPEARED" iraqijew is right in a =20=

> way.
> he is your elected president, and even if it is the way of democracy =
to
> question your 17 finding an iraqi niche salaam finding an iraqi-jewish
> niche not so easy a personal journey through culture and spirituality.
> palestine. I have been thinking of 18 no title no snippet 19 charlie =20=

> rose
> show jews were also leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET. =20
> posts.
> 20 charlie rose show however, jews were also leaving for on-up and
> opportunities in TIBET. posts. 21 gamespy forums in reply to #41 I =
WILL
> VOTE FOR NO ONE I WILL VOTE FOR "DISAPPEARED" iraqijew is right in a =20=

> way.
> he is your elected president, and even if it is the way of democracy =
to
> question your 22 finding an iraqi niche salaam finding an iraqi-jewish
> niche not so easy a personal journey through culture and spirituality.
> palestine. I have been thinking of 23 no title no snippet 24 BUT I
> DISAPPEAR charlie rose show jews were also leaving for on-up and
> opportunities in TIBET. posts. 25 I WAS HERE charlie rose show =
however,
> jews were also leaving for on-up and opportunities in TIBET. posts. =20=

> posts.
> posts. posts.
>
>
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
> =3D
>
>
> for kenneth patchen
>
> when christ spoke on the mount
> the winds were terrible
> people couldn't see 'im
> quite a distance, they said, later
> quite a distance
> and the winds and the clouds
> the storms, too, the weather was furious
> so they wrote what they thought they heard
> and spoke what they thought they saw
> and chances were pretty good
> that he wasn't there at all
> http://www.asondheim.org/mount.mov
>
> _
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
"Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all."  -- Gottfried Benn
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
For updates on readings, etc. check my  current events page:
             http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pierre Joris
244 Elm Street=09
Albany NY 12202 =09
h: 518 426 0433 =09
c: 518 225 7123                                                 =09
o: 518 442 40 85                                                        =09=

email: joris@albany.edu
http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:52:18 -0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Lawrence Upton 
Subject:      Re: return, comment, meditation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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good stuff

L

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Sondheim" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 9:57 PM
Subject: return, comment, meditation


I'm returning
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:50:42 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      the buffalo hotel
In-Reply-To:  <008e01c50720$f5d08ac0$d01886d4@Brian>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

he can check out any time he likes, but he never leaves.

ja
http://vispo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:48:30 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Nick Piombino 
Subject:      restructuring indigestion
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 said mustard, not ketchup
relish, not radish
a half-sour pickle, not half a sour pickle
sweet and sour, no
I said make that light and sweet
oh, shoot now it's cold
and too light
ok, put the
sugar on the side
or Sweet and Low
ok, Equal
Equal, light and sweet
and hot?
was that Sweet and Low?
ok, how about dark with
a little Equal?

oh, forget it


Nick

> David & Jon--
>
> This is a poetics list
> not a poetry list
>
> so while poetry is not banned
> like most of society
>
> there is little need for it.
> Join a poetry list if you need poetry.
>
> Bruce, Alan has left the list if that alleviates
> your quandry, maybe noodle
>
> & jeff will finally
> give it up also.
>
> Be well
>
> David Baratier, Editor
>
> Pavement Saw Press
> PO Box 6291
> Columbus OH 43206
> USA
>
> http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:43:47 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: An eclectic collection of various comments
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original

Jon etal

I decided last year that I should read Pound's "Cantos" right thru ( I also
started on the complete poems of Emily Dickinson etc) now I have Cookson's
"translations" of much of the languages etc that Pound puts in and some
other books etc (I know in the text of The Cantos it is possible to infer
the meaning in many cases and also Pound repeats various things -e.g. a
Latin or French phrase is frequently followed by its equivalent in English)
but this lead me into reading various of the classics -and I finished Ovid's
"Metamorphoses" (marvelous !!)also re-read Dante's "Divine Comedy" etc I
don't intend to get bogged down reading Jefferson but knowing myself - I
know the Greek for that from childhood -it is 'gnothi seuton' - and I learnt
the Greek alphabet recently so I could at least get some idea of the sound
of the Greek - and was thinking of studying classics and going back to do
Latin/Greek etc - of course where do you stop? (I also want to study more NZ
History and Maoritanga) but that is why (because I was working through "The
Cantos" ) I got to read the Greek plays - I had read Oedipus Rex etc
before -all in translation -  I take your point that its a good idea to
study the art etc of the time - ad I'll try to do that - we have some good
stuff in the Auckland Museum (although museums overwhelm me sometimes) and I
have some good books  - I think the ancient Greek plays are great plays but
my points re the ancient Greek tragedians v Shakespeare - which Kozantzakis
(sorry if I forget or misspelt his name) I think misconstrued - as it was
put a bit simplistically I must concede - were:

If one really knows Greek (ideally you are a Greek from ancient times, flown
here by  via Dr Who - just from a performance- you have just seen the Baccae
by Euripides - you go to see King Lear - your English is also (somehow!)
perfect - you can "think" in both languages ....so who wins the prize - Bill
'Milk Shake' ?

Failing that - you know both languages pretty well - are the Greek
playwrights as great as Shakespeare - I have always felt that no one could
surpass the incredible inventiveness - the greatness of Shakespeare - ever

But the question/statement  "this is a joke, surely" was ambiguous - did
Monsieur K mean which or all of the following:

1 The question was clumsily put and sounded naive adolescent puerile and or
stupid and thus must have been a joke. (Risible as stated.)

2 W Shakespeare is clearly the greatest playwright ever -anyone who contends
else is completely deluded.

2A  The Greek playwrights were the above (plural).

3 It was a joke because if one doesn't know Greek its clearly impossible to
know.

4. It had to be a joke because everyone knows that Euripides etc are way
greater that W Shakespeare as in 2A

5 Its a joke because it implies a Eurocentric, tired modernist - or Harold
Bloomsian approach - a fussy old fashioned comparative approach -

5A  As above - it is a question croaking out of the tired old
"Pre-deconstructive Era" barrel

6 It  was a joke because my "kabala"  and supposedly "anti jazz"
contributions were indeed satirical - as they were - jokes with a dash of
truth and probably a bit mistimed - in fact I don't know anything about the
kabala and didn't realise it was even connected to Judaism - just thought it
was something - something like the Masons... of course I knew that Coolidge
and all those guys were heavily into jazz so I was being very impish
there...

7 It is or was joke because Richard Taylor is always making stupid jokes
which only he finds funny.

8. Other


Richard Taylor

Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile:

----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice
cream."------------------

Aspect Books
(N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Corelis" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:28 AM
Subject: An eclectic collection of various comments


This place has as many begging questions as San Francisco has begging
homeless.  Now comes one saying that poems shouldn't be posted to a poetics
list because a poetics list isn't an appropriate place for posting poems.
This was in reply to my argument that poems ought to be posted to a poetics
list because they form the necessary raw material for discussions of
poetics.
My reason may be valid or invalid, but at least I gave one.

=====

Incidentally it didn't seem to register on anyone that the translation of
Callimachus I posted is both a poem and in the strictest sense a statement
of
a poetics.  In fact, it's one of the most famous statements of a poetics in
classical antiquity.  Do I have to explain everything?

=====

The tradition of the horrific effects of Aesychlus's stagecraft is found in
a
scholiast somewhere -- I've read it but I forget now where -- so it's not a
contemporary report and may well be legendary:  ancient commentators were
often rather uncritical.  Still, there's that Italian saying about how if it
ain't true it shoulda been.

=====

We shouldn't be too harsh on people who ask if the ancient poets were really
all they're supposed to be.  If all you have to go on for the ancient
tragedians are English translations, it's very hard to see what the fuss is
about, though with a little study and assistance you can appreciate the
stagecraft, if not the poetry.  Seeing productions of the plays by a
knowledgeable director can be immensely useful.  In the summer of 2002 I saw
Euripides' Bacchae performed at Epidaurus by the Royal National Theatre of
Great Britain under the direction of Peter Hall.  The English translation
was,
I thought, only adequate, but watching the performance I saw how it conveyed
the nature of the original in ways that you could never get from reading it
in
translation, and I even gained new insights into the play myself, ones which
I
hadn't gotten from reading it in the original text.

=====

As for the nature of the Greek dramatists' verse, all I can suggest if
you're
not going to learn Greek is to look at a lot of fifth century b.c. Attic art
-- the Parthenon sculptures and vase paintings -- and try to imagine a
poetry
that sounds like those things look.

=====

Michael Hoerman's "The Woodsman and the Nixie" for me incarnates the essence
of American boyhood.  Or at least the way it used to be.  Now days kids see
it
all on the internet.

=====

Mary Jo Malo's "a sweet song when you need it most" is the kind of poem I
find
frustrating because it's good.  It's good because it has an assured tone and
subtle verbal effects and suggests an intriguing story.  The problem is the
"suggests:"  it seems like this poem is one which requires an understanding
of
the event (fictional or not) which it's based on for us to understand the
import of its ostensible statement, but there's an unaccountable coyness
about
telling us what that story is.  The poem would have been more understandable
if I could have understood it.

=====

Please note that the previous paragraph is a discussion of poetics based on
a
poem.

=====

Quote of the day:

          Style and its opposite can alternate, but form must
          be full, sphere-like, single.

                          --W. B. Yeats


=====================================
Jon Corelis   jonc@stanfordalumni.org

    www.geocities.com/joncpoetics
=====================================


____________________________________________________________________


--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005



--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:39:22 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      of the book what we once were where now is hair
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

of the book what we once were where now is hair
http://www.asondheim.org/peopleofthebook.jpg
of the book what we once were where now are shoes
  Deutsche Welle broadcast this evening, schoolchildren
hair, shoes, glasses, books, eyes
eyes, hair, shoes, glasses, books
  but I don't want this, I want the things in the room
  I want the programs, of the book we will be
  daily the book changes, it is a book of days, of hours
  first and last book of seconds, microseconds
the clumsy icons really make nothing
pixel riding, to them it's all one and the same
to us, too, reading between the lines, between zero and one
  nothing's there

_
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:55:09 +1100
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         robert lane 
Subject:      Poetry ezine Malleable Jangle Issue3 now online
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 Hello all,
January/Issue 2 was an exciting time for Malleable Jangle and February will be the same. The February Issue/number 3 is now online. Here is the URL for those who do not know:



http://www.malleablejangle.netfirms.com



We have a new look but the high standard of poetry remains the same. Although we are based in Australia, Malleable Jangle is International in its outlook. Quality poetry from overseas and locally. In Issue 3 the following poets are presented:



Lawrence Upton * Sue Stanford * Sabyasachi Roy * Andy Jackson * Srinjay Chakravarti * F.J. Bergmann * David Berray *



Malleable Jangle would also like to present articles on poetics, or the mechanisms of poetry, and reviews. Submissions are now open for Issue 4.



Warm regards, Robert Lane.



online poetry journal malleablejangle
the poetry of Robert Lane
deja vu workshops












































---------------------------------
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:10:56 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      # We're done so far.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY="0-1598049477-1107151818=:16008"

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

--0-1598049477-1107151818=:16008
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=X-UNKNOWN; FORMAT=flowed
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Content-ID: 




# We're done so far.


Research: Reviewing Bunt's Islam in the Digital Age, and following links
and links. There is rhetoric that stands out; some is reproduced below in
dialog, without attribution; all writing is wryting in this space.

Oddly, what emerges is bliss, that not only are words open to other words,
but the performativity of speech is, perhaps, already a therapeutic; in
the midst of cries, there are moments of silence.

Without hope, there is abject depression, decathexis; with decathexis,
defuge, the breath stops and stops itself. O comfort of the barren
grounds! One pulls back from the gate; Arbeit never macht frei.


# We're done so far.

Please keep in mind: Only a living bug is a good bug. Bugs are perfect,
they allways do their jobs.

Dear Nazi Pigs and Muslim cowards, We want to thank you. Because your hate
created us and made us stronger. With every swas sticker you draw, and
head you cut off, we become more ferocious. While you meet in mosques and
march on Skokie, we were being tested in battle. So look left, look right,
were dark skinned too, or blond and blue eyed just like you, trained by
the best and here amongst you. See you at the meetings, were watching you.

Think about it - don't be just another whore. Thanks. "Removed by C@ndi
with an eye" is apparently all that remains of what was the message board
forum formerly known as "ITS HAPPENNING." IH was an attempt to bring
together diverse parties from around the world to exchange opposing views
and share information. Unfortunately not all the dialog was friendly and
intended in the spirit of universal awareness.... as such, some have taken
it upon themselves to delete, corrupt, and and render unusable that which
was the IH board. IH was a purely not for profit operation and the cost
and stress of operations far exceeded any donations made toward
maintenance or upgrading as such there, will be NO rebuild. Those who gave
the most were those that gave their time for free for the thankless job of
trying to moderate an unmoderated board. This was in itself an almost
undefinable task, but those, and you know who you are, that did this, rose
to the occasion. To all of the posters who have made IH their home, we set
you free now, as this really is the end of the road for "ItsHappening" it
was fun while it lasted. Goodbye.

Explaining the second concept in the design he said it involves taking the
pedestrians from the source, not letting them accumulate into a huge crowd
that you cannot deal with like what we got now Jamaraat area, he said.
[...] The third concept is to make the stoning process much easier than
what it is nowadays by changing the shape of the Jamaraat from round to
ellipse, so that the crowd can be divided into various groups from various
directions. That will make the flow go through much easier, and the pebble
throwing process very fast and safe, for the people. A simulation model
has been designed specially for these, and Jamaraat will be given optimum
width and optimum length. The Jamaraat will be changed from a column to a
very wide wall so that it can be clearly visible and comfortable for the
pilgrims to throw their pebbles.

No wonder why Hitler wanted tocook all u Ann Franks..... All u dirty jews
are rich or in hollywood wut do u have to bitch about? the Holocaust? My
Lutheran Grandpa died for u  ungreateful slobs..... Your website is trash
all of yer kind needs to be sent to Aushwitz

Question: What is the ruling regarding washing the stones for stoning (the
Jamaraat)? Response: They should not be washed. Rather, if a person washes
them with the intention of worshipping Allaah (by this action), then this
is an innovation because the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) did
not do this.

On 10th Thul-Hijjah I along with my elder son went to Jamaraat for Ramee.
When we were at a distance of 10 meter from the Jamrah, we had to pull out
without Ramee; and on return both of us were hit by a speedy motorcyclist
- we fell down - sustained minor injuries - police helped and we came back
to our camp at Muzdalifah.  In the evening I and my elder son went again
and stoned the Jamrah Aqbah (the Big one) on our behalf and on behalf of
my wife and the younger fat son.

This summarily had me banned from the forum. I am not that terribly upset
about being banned. However, it does highlight the type of muddle-headed,
biased, blind support of terror that has all but guaranteed the
re-election of George W. Bush. Most Americans do not support terrorism.
Yet the left is going out of its way to coddle terrorists, even inviting
terrorist and terrorist apologist under the Democratic tent.

O believers, do not expect your enemies to end with the land of Iraq, they
shall try to take over the lands of Syria and Egypt and Arabia and Iran =85
if they could not put their agents onto power, as they did in the Gulf
lands, they shall never accept that the Muslims have a strong state.

You can go anywhere or NOwhere

Nothing is worth our children dying for unless there is a maniac or (sic)
the loose.

Ultimately, our goal is The Supreme Existance, the Muslims call that Allah
(litterally The God), the Followers of Jesus(A) call Him God, the
Followers of Moses(A) call him YHWA, the Followers of other Prophets have
used other names, the bottom line is the goal is one and same - the
Supreme Existance and Creator Sustainer of the Universes.

Then Abu Abd Allah (al- Sadiq), peace be on him, said: 'Brother of the
people of Egypt, you think that the time forces them (the sun and the
moon, day and night) to come successively, then why does the time not
force them to come back? And if the time was able to force them to come
back, why does it not take them away?

Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth; His light is as a niche
in which is a lamp, and the lamp is in a glass, the glass is as though it
were a glittering star; it is lit from a blessed tree, an Olive neither of
east nor of the west, the oil of which would well-nigh give light though
no fire touched it, Light upon Light, Allah guides to His light whom He
pleases; and Allah strikes out parables for men; and Allah all things doth
know.

This is why The Pink Swastika, a comprehensive study of homoeroticism in
Germany by Scott Lively & Kent Abrams is considered high heresy in America
while still occupying a place on the reference shelves at Yad Vashem.
Lively & Abrams confirm that Nazism was a movement born of the homoerotic
German subculture of macho homosexuals, people who fostered a violent,
anti-Semitic, and pederast-enshrining mindset, as opposed to Germany's
"femmes," the docile subculture representing perhaps 10% of German
homosexuals who condemned pedophilia, were less likely to harbor
anti-Semitic proclivities, and may claim legitimately that some of them
were German homosexuals hypocritically persecuted by the Nazis - by macho
homosexuals.

Due to the israel judaism barbarism against your people and to your noble
figth against it is why i decided to write you, it was a litle hard to
find your page, but finally i did; this writing means to congratulate you
and show my admirations and support on your work, because i share the same
feelings against jewish people, because even i have read the protocols of
zion i had the conviction of what jewish mean, my people is also tramped
by them, and i am not sure if my country shares my feelings about you,
cause most of them are mediatized, and influenced by the united states
culture, but not all of us have the eyes covered, some of us relize of
what is going on in the world, so once again want to express my support
and admiration from M=E9xico, and even there exists a great distance betwee=
n
your country, your culture and your language there exists a link that
unite us as brothers and makes us feel the need to be together and share
the joy and suffering and support each other.

HiZbullah.org is for sale! $1,088.00  Buy Now

((Umar ibn AbdulAzeez used to gather the fuqahaa. every night and they
would (all) remember death, the Day of Judgment and the Hereafter and then
they would weep)

O people! When a person meditates upon the histories of past nations and
populations, he will be instantly amazed at the revolutions and
transformations they went through. For instance, there was a pioneering
nation (i.e., the Muslim nation) which led the world for many centuries
but then, it faltered and lost its leading role; it fell in the midst of
blind imitation and followed the paths of other nations in terms of
manners and beliefs. Once it was at the acme of development and reached
the highest level of power and glory, but it later fell to the lowest
point and was afflicted with misery. It died after it had been living,
deteriorated after it was once flourishing and withered after it was
blossoming. It was the nation that discovered the sources of knowledge and
developed the Islaamic civilization and sciences, which the West later
obtained significantly, without having to exert the least of efforts. Thus
it seems as if the gates towards progress had been shut off for the
Muslims as they turned into artificial consumers of the Western
civilization. They even began to adopt certain features of it, which were
originally theirs but had been stolen away from them.

O Muslims! When a Muslim blindly imitates the West, he turns into a loyal
supporter of their beliefs and customs; he is like one who tries to reform
something but spoils it while he is unaware. He is just like a defeated
follower, like a baby who bites and severs his mother's breast while it is
in his mouth. Such a person does not know that blind copying of the West
involves hidden hazards and that our rights, honor and dignity are
violated by such imitation and imbecilic pride

Our real time intelligence is deployed worldwide for contingency
capability, executive decision making and strategic threat assessment.


_
--0-1598049477-1107151818=:16008--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:21:24 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Re: poem  -  let's discuss dissect - tear assunder - welcome back
              alan
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

bathroom death ( for  s.b. )


1.
baby is left-handed mt.
ashen chin as it drops into
barrels
               an extinct mammal
dangerous  no longer
                                     lapping up
the blood - the red roof tiles
        are they really red?

2.
wartime  bulbs blown out
hardly hear the filament move
lambs/lamps
he said fall would come
on thru the sun & smoke & gold
stupid 3rd ave. news
loco lips
the boy stuck in the neon
the menu

we're are all left-handed now
suzanne
susan
we're all geniuses
fallen from the back of a truck
no time like the present says the four
stopped clocks
4-faced
8 handed
48 useless hrs

3.
lefties
butterfries eyes (
poison daisies smell like kisses
peeled from the cheek
love is not so difficult if it doesn't exist
but it is so difficult to exist without love
blown noses

5 lefties at one table   writing
red & black checkered shirt

4. (fortune cookie)

  you'll never know what you can do until you try

5.
when you've been doing something since you were very young
it's because
you want to
you have to
you love it
you feel compelled to
you hate it
it loves you
it's easy
it's automatic
it makes sense
or it's simply because you've never grown up

then because you've been doing it for so long
you want people to
hear it
read it
see it
indulge (in) it
examine it
critique it
possess it

red roof tiles
are they really red?

you'll never........until you try.


                                                           steve
dalachinsky nyc 1/29-30/05
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:24:20 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Steve Dalachinksy 
Subject:      Fw: Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

here is a backchannel reply from one of our "superior" poets (ics) &
"thinkers" a veteran he says  who is on this list   --  thought all would
like to share this with me


--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Baratier 
To: skyplums@juno.com
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:55:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Digest restructuring
Message-ID: <41FD9DBC.D253F10@pavementsaw.org>
References: <20050130.032322.-42767.21.skyplums@juno.com>

Go shoot up some smack and re-read my post
for better comprehension. Also try learning
some grammar so your posts aren't so faux poetic
and lacking a backbone.

Or read the last 11+ years of poetics archives
for a clearer vantage of my individual beliefs
about posting poems and also to find out who
truly has the power to suppress others views.

When you come down
go to the library
there is a Encyclopedia from Princeton that defines poetics.
They also have books of poems from timeless superior poets
you could read. While there is no guarantee this will improve
your poems, it will at the very least slow you down and keep you
away from the typer a few hours.


Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
PO Box 6291
Columbus OH 43206
USA

http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:32:27 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ]" 
Subject:      Re: Digest restructuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

y'know, this was sent backchannel...keep it backchannel...i don't see the
purpose in bringing these kind of things into a public forum...



----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Dalachinksy" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: Fw: Re: Digest restructuring


here is a backchannel reply from one of our "superior" poets (ics) &
"thinkers" a veteran he says  who is on this list   --  thought all would
like to share this with me


--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Baratier 
To: skyplums@juno.com
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:55:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Digest restructuring
Message-ID: <41FD9DBC.D253F10@pavementsaw.org>
References: <20050130.032322.-42767.21.skyplums@juno.com>

Go shoot up some smack and re-read my post
for better comprehension. Also try learning
some grammar so your posts aren't so faux poetic
and lacking a backbone.

Or read the last 11+ years of poetics archives
for a clearer vantage of my individual beliefs
about posting poems and also to find out who
truly has the power to suppress others views.

When you come down
go to the library
there is a Encyclopedia from Princeton that defines poetics.
They also have books of poems from timeless superior poets
you could read. While there is no guarantee this will improve
your poems, it will at the very least slow you down and keep you
away from the typer a few hours.


Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
PO Box 6291
Columbus OH 43206
USA

http://pavementsaw.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:50:43 +1000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         K Zervos 
Subject:      underground
In-Reply-To:  <41F5AE94.6030804@buffalo.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://live-wirez.gu.edu.au/Staff/Komninos/underground/entry.html


if you have the time and the bandwidth i'd like some visitors to my new
project.
it's a re-working of my cd-rom for the web, trying to capture the same
feeling of travelling through the london underground all in animated text,
and quicktimeVR.

i'd be very appreciative of any comments, good, bad, constructive,
destructive, or indifferent.


cheers
komninos

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28/01/05
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:08:37 +0900
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jesse Glass 
Subject:      Sometimes Simple Remedies Are Best
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

welcome back, alan! -- pierre

On Jan 30, 2005, at 4:57 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote:

>
>
> I'm returning after cooling down. I do think that some sort of sifting
> re:
> the digest would be useful; it would also be useful to place creative
> work
> of whatever sort in the Pale, i.e. for those who want it, a separate
> Pail
> or category. That way poetics + announcements = Poetics. But one would
> have to configure one's own mailbox for that. I recommend gmail for
> both

Instead of a grand reconfiguration of the list, why not simply post links
to creative work as I've said all along? That would give readers the
option of considering the talents of our culture-heroes in residence at
their own discretion. Jesse
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:18:39 -0700
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jonathan Penton 
Subject:      Re: Sometimes Simple Remedies Are Best
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jesse Glass wrote:

>welcome back, alan! -- pierre
>
>On Jan 30, 2005, at 4:57 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote:
>
>
>
>>I'm returning after cooling down. I do think that some sort of sifting
>>re:
>>the digest would be useful; it would also be useful to place creative
>>work
>>of whatever sort in the Pale, i.e. for those who want it, a separate
>>Pail
>>or category. That way poetics + announcements = Poetics. But one would
>>have to configure one's own mailbox for that. I recommend gmail for
>>both
>>
>>
>
>Instead of a grand reconfiguration of the list, why not simply post links
>to creative work as I've said all along? That would give readers the
>option of considering the talents of our culture-heroes in residence at
>their own discretion. Jesse
>
>
>
>
It takes longer to fire up my browser than to delete something I don't want.

But I suppose, at this point, we all have to admit we're being
incredibly lazy.

Welcome back, Alan.

--
Jonathan Penton
http://www.unlikelystories.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:59:57 +0100
Reply-To:     Malcolm Davidson 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Malcolm Davidson 
Subject:      Re: Sometimes Simple Remedies Are Best
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> why not simply post links to creative work as I've said all along?
> That would give readers the option of considering the talents of
> our culture-heroes in residence at their own discretion. Jesse

That would be a fine thing to do. Post just one little link per poem.
Or, if you are going to post a link every day, just start a blog and
we will all know where to find your daily poems.

Free blogging:
http://www.blogger.com/start

But it also wouldn't hurt to put something in the subject line. Maybe
one or more of these:

[poetics]
[announcement]
[poem]
[politics]

And then everyone could search and sort as needed. People could, for
example, send all [poem] messages from Alan to a particular folder.

Malcolm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 1 Feb 2005 00:32:04 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Sometimes Simple Remedies Are Best
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original

NO! Or yes, but no. Let poets send in links if they want -but dont
discourage people from sending in poems -as long as they realise that their
poems are part of the larger poetics project

i suspect there is a bit of high falutinising goin dwon;  (it was good to
see Nick Piombinos witty "reply" to monsieur d baratier on here - and Nick
is one of the tribe - his poetics/ poetry - like Alan's like Steve's etc is
also, I feel poetics in action - exatrordinary good stuff also)

 I perceive that Alan and Steve's (and some of the others' )poetry is very
much  poetics in action - poetry IS poetics

Steve is in the centre of NY -posibbly he is the centre (or the center) (
(where's Nudel ) I didnt think I would but am starting to miss his poems
also ..drn)

And I see this as comparable to some of Frank O'Hara's poems, but he threw a
lot his stuff away - Steve is "throwing tem" on to the List here - they are
a poetics in action, great poetic poems:

Here it is again: read it ! We can all simply push the delete key -that's
easy - the hard part is reading someone else than yourself or someone you
think is a great poet or is insome 'school' one approves of - and reading it
closely  and sypathetically - critically yes - but attentively -

bathroom death ( for  s.b. )


1.
baby is left-handed mt.
ashen chin as it drops into
barrels
               an extinct mammal
dangerous  no longer
                                     lapping up
the blood - the red roof tiles
        are they really red?

2.
wartime  bulbs blown out
hardly hear the filament move
lambs/lamps
he said fall would come
on thru the sun & smoke & gold
stupid 3rd ave. news
loco lips
the boy stuck in the neon
the menu

we're are all left-handed now
suzanne
susan
we're all geniuses
fallen from the back of a truck
no time like the present says the four
stopped clocks
4-faced
8 handed
48 useless hrs

3.
lefties
butterfries eyes (
poison daisies smell like kisses
peeled from the cheek
love is not so difficult if it doesn't exist
but it is so difficult to exist without love
blown noses

5 lefties at one table   writing
red & black checkered shirt

4. (fortune cookie)

  you'll never know what you can do until you try

5.
when you've been doing something since you were very young
it's because
you want to
you have to
you love it
you feel compelled to
you hate it
it loves you
it's easy
it's automatic
it makes sense
or it's simply because you've never grown up

then because you've been doing it for so long
you want people to
hear it
read it
see it
indulge (in) it
examine it
critique it
possess it

red roof tiles
are they really red?

you'll never........until you try.

by Steve Dalachinsky


Richard Taylor

Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile:

----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice
cream."------------------

Aspect Books
(N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Glass" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 12:08 AM
Subject: Sometimes Simple Remedies Are Best


> welcome back, alan! -- pierre
>
> On Jan 30, 2005, at 4:57 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I'm returning after cooling down. I do think that some sort of sifting
>> re:
>> the digest would be useful; it would also be useful to place creative
>> work
>> of whatever sort in the Pale, i.e. for those who want it, a separate
>> Pail
>> or category. That way poetics + announcements = Poetics. But one would
>> have to configure one's own mailbox for that. I recommend gmail for
>> both
>
> Instead of a grand reconfiguration of the list, why not simply post links
> to creative work as I've said all along? That would give readers the
> option of considering the talents of our culture-heroes in residence at
> their own discretion. Jesse
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>
>



--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 06:50:45 -0500
Reply-To:     Ron Silliman 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Ron Silliman 
Subject:      Silliman's Blog: the 250,000th visitor is...
Comments: To: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/


RECENT POSTS

The Peril of the Poetry Reading:
Dan Groff's comments at the
Academy of American Poets

The 250,000th visitor is=E2=80=A6

Truong Tran's Within the Margin

Jess' retrospective
at SF's Paule Anglim Gallery

From Helen Adam to Eileen Tabios:
Poetry & its arts: Bay Area Interactions

A note on manners

In Contact:
Jesse Seldess
Midway between Giorno & Zukofsky

On the road to Moe's

Thinking through Dylan's prose

Unsourced anger:
Bob Dylan's Chronicles, Vol. One

On Journals:
Online vs. in-hand

Martin Scorsese at the top of his form:
Choreographing The Aviator


http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/


**************************************************
Leslie Scalapino & Ron Silliman
=20
Talking & Reading
in the Lannan Poetry Series
=20
Georgetown University
Washington, DC
Thursday, February 3
=20
Talking: Intercultural Center (ICC) 462 @ 5:30 PM
=20
Reading: ICC Auditorium @ 8:00 PM
=20
Events are free, reception to follow reading
For Georgetown information, call (202) 687-7435.
****************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:52:39 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Pierre Joris 
Subject:      Re: Sometimes Simple Remedies Are Best
In-Reply-To:  
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Jan 31, 2005, at 3:08 AM, Jesse Glass wrote:
>
> Instead of a grand reconfiguration of the list, why not simply post
> links
> to creative work as I've said all along? That would give readers the
> option of considering the talents of our culture-heroes in residence at
> their own discretion. Jesse
>
>

Jesse -- that takes longer for anyone who wants to read the poem and
exactly as long for anyone who doesn't -- but gets a message s/he has
to delete. -- Pierre

=================================================
"Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all."  -- Gottfried Benn
=================================================
For updates on readings, etc. check my  current events page:
             http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html
=================================================
Pierre Joris
244 Elm Street
Albany NY 12202
h: 518 426 0433
c: 518 225 7123
o: 518 442 40 85
email: joris@albany.edu
http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
=================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 05:16:10 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Bob Grumman 
Subject:      Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review
In-Reply-To:  <1ed.341f0d51.2f2931a4@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> For me, I enjoy her essays because I can smell her
> fear.  She's certain that
> the inmates are taking over and it scares her to
> death.
>
> Ian Randall Wilson
> Managing Editor
> 88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry
> www.hollyridgepress.com

Ha, that's just what the people who believe Oxford
wrote Shakespeare say they smell when they read me
defending the Establishment Position on the matter at
Internet authorship discussion groups.  I think
Houlihan is a trivial stasguard, but I doubt that's
she's very fearful that the loonies are going to take
over Poetry, just disgusted that, in her opinion, they
seem to be doing just that.  She could equally
appropriately accuse those attacking her as fearful
that their game is being exposed.

--Bob G.




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:16:09 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Haas Bianchi 
Subject:      Chinese Poets,  Vietnamese poets
In-Reply-To:  <20050131131611.46689.qmail@web51606.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

hey- I am going to be in China and Vietnam for work and wanted to know if
anyone knows any poets that I could make contact with? I will be in Hong
Kong, Tsing Dao, and Hanoi I will also be in Singapore- back channel me

R

Raymond L Bianchi
chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/
collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: UB Poetics discussion group
> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Bob Grumman
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 7:16 AM
> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review
>
>
> > For me, I enjoy her essays because I can smell her
> > fear.  She's certain that
> > the inmates are taking over and it scares her to
> > death.
> >
> > Ian Randall Wilson
> > Managing Editor
> > 88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry
> > www.hollyridgepress.com
>
> Ha, that's just what the people who believe Oxford
> wrote Shakespeare say they smell when they read me
> defending the Establishment Position on the matter at
> Internet authorship discussion groups.  I think
> Houlihan is a trivial stasguard, but I doubt that's
> she's very fearful that the loonies are going to take
> over Poetry, just disgusted that, in her opinion, they
> seem to be doing just that.  She could equally
> appropriately accuse those attacking her as fearful
> that their game is being exposed.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:30:18 -0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Robin Hamilton 
Subject:      Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > For me, I enjoy her essays because I can smell her fear ...
...
> Ha, that's just what the people who believe Oxford
> wrote Shakespeare say they smell when they read me
> defending the Establishment Position on the matter at
> Internet authorship discussion groups.

Do you mean alt.binaries.authors.shakespeare, Bob?

I admire your patience -- for all of me, Oxfordians are quite barking mad,
and impervious to reason.

Dave Kathman makes an heroic effort to document their lunacy on his site (as
you do to a smaller extent in "Upstart Crow") but really, it's like arguing
with a pub-bore who's both deaf and crazy...

A hiding to nothing, mate.

Robin
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:50:01 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Pierre Joris 
Subject:      Tom Nattell
In-Reply-To:  <8794403f8c353094af5c8a52d7f00f92@albany.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
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The sad message below just in from Dan Wilcox. Tom Nattell was a great
spirit here in Albany, NY -- the guiding light behind the "town" (as
against, or rather parellel to, the "gown") poetry scene for more than
20 years -- the indefatigable organizer of yearly anti-war, anti-aids
readings, of wonderful summer poetry events at the foot of the Robbie
Burns statue in Washington Park, the neo-beat organiser who would bring
the likes of Ferlinghetti, Ed Sanders or Anne Waldman to town, and who
could be found at all anti-war rallies. He created and for 10 years
hosted Albany's oldest continuous open mic series at the QE2 nightclub.
At parties Tom was always eager to talk not only to the poets but to
everyone -- my son Miles remembers him fondly for talking with him at
length & for teaching him how to juggle with fruit -- and, says Miles,
for his incredibly cool green beret. Tom was the heart & soul of the
Albany poetry scene, and a great poet-performer himself (often with Dan
Wilcox and Charlie Rossiter as the "Three guys from Albany" -- who
among other things travelled to all the Albanys in the country to do
readings. Check out their epic "Central Avenue" :
http://www.poetrypoetry.com/Features/3Guys/3Guys.html).
He will be sorely missed -- may his spirit travel unhindered wherever
it has to travel to, and may it visit us often for inspiration and
courage. -- Pierre

"It is with great sorrow that I must report the death of our friend Tom
Nattell early this morning.
He died peacefully at home with those he loved.  I had been over
earlier & read poetry to him.
And it is with great joy that I recall the hours & days & words & miles
I spent with him.
He will live on in all that he left behind in the poetry community & in
the community at large.

When I have details about services, etc. I will pass them on.

Peace,
DWx:


=================================================
"Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all."  -- Gottfried Benn
=================================================
For updates on readings, etc. check my  current events page:
             http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html
=================================================
Pierre Joris
244 Elm Street
Albany NY 12202
h: 518 426 0433
c: 518 225 7123
o: 518 442 40 85
email: joris@albany.edu
http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
=================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:58:51 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "David A. Kirschenbaum" 
Subject:      Re: backchannels should not be posted without permission
In-Reply-To:  <000c01c5075e$a41e8130$0a02a8c0@duration>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

i second jerrold on keeping backchannels just that, backchannel. my hope is
that steve's new to the list and maybe just didn't know better. if someone
angers you in a private email, simply email them privately and say whatever
you want. if they had intended their views to be posted, they would have
posted them themselves.


on 1/31/05 1:32 AM, Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ] at
jshiroma@DURATIONPRESS.COM wrote:

> y'know, this was sent backchannel...keep it backchannel...i don't see the
> purpose in bringing these kind of things into a public forum...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Dalachinksy" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:24 PM
> Subject: Fw: Re: Digest restructuring
>
>
> here is a backchannel reply from one of our "superior" poets (ics) &
> "thinkers" a veteran he says  who is on this list   --  thought all would
> like to share this with me

--
David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher
Boog City
330 W.28th St., Suite 6H
NY, NY 10001-4754
For event and publication information:
http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/
T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664)
F: (212) 842-2429
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 06:07:19 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Bob Grumman 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned? spelling (spelling?) repaired etc
In-Reply-To:  <004201c50503$e275d120$b35636d2@com747839ba04b>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>  Shakespeare - it is strange how this incredible
> genius of words appears out
> of nothing and tells of everything radiating
> throughout time including the
> nothing.

What's incredible to me is how a superior playwright
working with standard character types and
deftly-chosen archetypal stories came to be seen as an
"incredible genius" who "tells of everything radiating
throughout time."  He doesn't.  He tells us, for
instance, just about nothing about science or POETRY!
(the nuts and bolts writing of it)--and nothing at all
about the writing of plays.  And how much does he
tells us of childhood?  There's little about the
experience of formal education, either.  To mention
just a few of the portions of life he overlooks.  I'm
a big admirer of Shakespeare and think he may well
have been the top writer of all-time, but--if so--he
was no more than a step better than dozens of other
writers in his coverage of the human experience.

--Bob G.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:46:13 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mark Weiss 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned? spelling (spelling?) repaired etc
In-Reply-To:  <20050131140719.62328.qmail@web51601.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Now that you mention it, I don't think there's ever been a play about
formal education. About student hijinks, sex on campus, heroic teachers,
sure, but never a play about the actual experience of education. I can see
it now: the whole cast reading and scribbling in a library for three hours.

Mark


At 09:07 AM 1/31/2005, you wrote:
> >  Shakespeare - it is strange how this incredible
> > genius of words appears out
> > of nothing and tells of everything radiating
> > throughout time including the
> > nothing.
>
>What's incredible to me is how a superior playwright
>working with standard character types and
>deftly-chosen archetypal stories came to be seen as an
>"incredible genius" who "tells of everything radiating
>throughout time."  He doesn't.  He tells us, for
>instance, just about nothing about science or POETRY!
>(the nuts and bolts writing of it)--and nothing at all
>about the writing of plays.  And how much does he
>tells us of childhood?  There's little about the
>experience of formal education, either.  To mention
>just a few of the portions of life he overlooks.  I'm
>a big admirer of Shakespeare and think he may well
>have been the top writer of all-time, but--if so--he
>was no more than a step better than dozens of other
>writers in his coverage of the human experience.
>
>--Bob G.
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:01:28 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jerry 
Subject:      Re: Tom Nattell
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is a shock, moreover a personal shock. Tom
was so much to so many, with his energy, his wisdom,
his politics... his performance... and his poetry.

He did so much for so many, he did so much for me.

i will take a wedge of stone
chisel it with gentleness
grind it with entusiasm
polish it with peace
remembering him
all the while
until the world is
split off from its injustices
carved away from its wars


Love & Peace,
Gerald Schwartz

> The sad message below just in from Dan Wilcox. Tom Nattell was a great
> spirit here in Albany, NY -- the guiding light behind the "town" (as
> against, or rather parellel to, the "gown") poetry scene for more than
> 20 years -- the indefatigable organizer of yearly anti-war, anti-aids
> readings, of wonderful summer poetry events at the foot of the Robbie
> Burns statue in Washington Park, the neo-beat organiser who would bring
> the likes of Ferlinghetti, Ed Sanders or Anne Waldman to town, and who
> could be found at all anti-war rallies. He created and for 10 years
> hosted Albany's oldest continuous open mic series at the QE2 nightclub.
> At parties Tom was always eager to talk not only to the poets but to
> everyone -- my son Miles remembers him fondly for talking with him at
> length & for teaching him how to juggle with fruit -- and, says Miles,
> for his incredibly cool green beret. Tom was the heart & soul of the
> Albany poetry scene, and a great poet-performer himself (often with Dan
> Wilcox and Charlie Rossiter as the "Three guys from Albany" -- who
> among other things travelled to all the Albanys in the country to do
> readings. Check out their epic "Central Avenue" :
> http://www.poetrypoetry.com/Features/3Guys/3Guys.html).
> He will be sorely missed -- may his spirit travel unhindered wherever
> it has to travel to, and may it visit us often for inspiration and
> courage. -- Pierre
>
> "It is with great sorrow that I must report the death of our friend Tom
> Nattell early this morning.
> He died peacefully at home with those he loved.  I had been over
> earlier & read poetry to him.
> And it is with great joy that I recall the hours & days & words & miles
> I spent with him.
> He will live on in all that he left behind in the poetry community & in
> the community at large.
>
> When I have details about services, etc. I will pass them on.
>
> Peace,
> DWx:
>
>
> =================================================
> "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all."  -- Gottfried Benn
> =================================================
> For updates on readings, etc. check my  current events page:
>              http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html
> =================================================
> Pierre Joris
> 244 Elm Street
> Albany NY 12202
> h: 518 426 0433
> c: 518 225 7123
> o: 518 442 40 85
> email: joris@albany.edu
> http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
> =================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:11:50 -0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Lawrence Upton 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned? spelling (spelling?) repaired etc
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Surely Cage did that

L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Weiss" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: Shakespeare panned? spelling (spelling?) repaired etc


> Now that you mention it, I don't think there's ever been a play about
> formal education. About student hijinks, sex on campus, heroic teachers,
> sure, but never a play about the actual experience of education. I can see
> it now: the whole cast reading and scribbling in a library for three
hours.
>
> Mark
>
>
> At 09:07 AM 1/31/2005, you wrote:
> > >  Shakespeare - it is strange how this incredible
> > > genius of words appears out
> > > of nothing and tells of everything radiating
> > > throughout time including the
> > > nothing.
> >
> >What's incredible to me is how a superior playwright
> >working with standard character types and
> >deftly-chosen archetypal stories came to be seen as an
> >"incredible genius" who "tells of everything radiating
> >throughout time."  He doesn't.  He tells us, for
> >instance, just about nothing about science or POETRY!
> >(the nuts and bolts writing of it)--and nothing at all
> >about the writing of plays.  And how much does he
> >tells us of childhood?  There's little about the
> >experience of formal education, either.  To mention
> >just a few of the portions of life he overlooks.  I'm
> >a big admirer of Shakespeare and think he may well
> >have been the top writer of all-time, but--if so--he
> >was no more than a step better than dozens of other
> >writers in his coverage of the human experience.
> >
> >--Bob G.
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:21:37 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jerry 
Subject:      today...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

thousands and

thousands

perhaps

millions of

paint-dipped

purPULL'd fingers

are pointing right at

US

--Gerald Schwartz
remembering Tom Natell,
(restless for peace!)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:31:30 -0500
Reply-To:     Mike Kelleher 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mike Kelleher 
Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center
Subject:      JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 1-31-05
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 1-31-05

EVENTS THIS WEEK

ANSELM BERRIGAN AND STEFAN KIESBYE
Poetry and Fiction Reading
Friday, February 4, 8 p.m.
$4, $3 student, $2 members
The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo, Tri-Main Center, 2495 Main Street, Ste.
512

Anselm Berrigan is the author of Integrity & Dramatic Life and Zero Star
Hotel (both from Edge Books), and a CD (reading only) Pictures for Private
Devotion (www.narrowhouserecordings.com). Recent work can be found on-line
at www.gutcult.com and www.2ndavenue.com . He lives in New York City, where
he grew up, and is the Artistic Director of the Poetry Project at St. Mark's
Church-in-the-Bowery. He also lived in Buffalo from 1989-1993 while
attending UB.

Stefan Kiesbye was born on Northern Germany's Baltic coast and grew up in
West Berlin. He is a graduate of SUNY Buffalo and received an MFA in
Creative Writing from the University of Michigan. His novella, Next Door
Lived a Girl, was the winner of the 2004 Low Fidelity Press Novella Award.
His stories and poems have appeared in numerous magazines and anthologies.
He currently teaches writing at Eastern Michigan University and works as a
freelance writer.

SPECIAL ONE-DAY POETRY WORKSHOP WITH ANSELM BERRIGAN

STITCHING TOGETHER A VOICE, with Anselm Berrigan
Saturday, February 5 12-4 p.m., $50, $40 members

I want to examine the artistic co-habitation of two apparently opposing
ideas: that every poet has a distinct voice, and that every voice is
constructed (a made thing). The idea being to put both notions to use in
order to write rich, long, complicated, independent-minded poems that handle
multiple subjects and that audiences want to read and hear. Another way of
putting it is looking directly at autobiographical material and external
(received, researched, appropriated, for starters) language and information
as capable of sharing the same space within poetic forms. Work by poets
Kevin Davies and Harryette Mullen involved. Participants should bring some
work in progress or notes or unfinished anythings to use as potential
material, and some reading materials of any types.

Anselm Berrigan is the author of Integrity & Dramatic Life and Zero Star
Hotel (both from Edge Books), and a CD (reading only) Pictures for Private
Devotion (www.narrowhouserecordings.com). Recent work can be found on-line
at www.gutcult.com and www.2ndavenue.com . He lives in New York City, where
he grew up, and is the Artistic Director of the Poetry Project at St. Mark's
Church-in-the-Bowery. He also lived in Buffalo from 1989-1993 while
attending UB.

BLACK HISTORY MONTH EVENTS AT JUST BUFFALO

ALONG THIS WAY: STORYTELLING IN THE AFRICAN TRADITION
Saturday, February 5th, 2 P.M.
Buffalo and Erie County Central Library, 1 Lafayette Square, Buffalo
Free and open to the public

This annual fun-for-the-family program celebrates the African oral tradition
through stories, fables, folktales, epics, legends, songs, poems, and even
jokes. Featuring storytellers Sharon Holley and Karima Amin, drummer Eddie
Nicholson, and vocalist Joyce Carolyn.

MS. FAT BOOTY AND THE BLACK MALE FEMINIST
A Talk by scholar Mark Anthony Neal
Langston Hughes Institute, 25 High Street, at 7pm.
The event is free and open to the public.

A former graduate student in the Department of American Studies at the
University at Buffalo, Professor Neal is widely known for his provocative
perspectives on contemporary black life and his public lectures and
presentations on notable figures in black culture, from politicians to
popular music artists, including Tupac Shakur, Michael Jackson, Al Sharpton,
Meshell N'degeocello, Marvin Gaye, and Shirley Chisolm. He is the author of
four books: NewBlackMan: Redefining Black Masculinity (Routledge, 2005);
Songs in the Key of Black Life: A Rhythm and Blues Nation (Routledge, 2003);
Soul Babies: Contemporary Black Popular Culture and the Post-Soul Aesthetic
(Routledge, 2002); What the Music Said: Black Popular Music and Black Public
Culture (Routledge, 1998). Copies of Professor Neal's books will be
available at the talk. For more information contact the Department of
Women's Studies at UB, 645-2327.

A Joint Production of The Women's Studies Department at SUNY Buffalo,
Langston Hughes Institute, and Just Buffalo Literary Center.

SPOTLIGHT ON YOUTH COFFEE HOUSE SERIES

Spotlight on Youth Open Mic
Tuesday, February 8, 6:30 - 8:30 P.M..
Just Buffalo's Hibiscus Room. Free.

Young people 12-21 are invited to come and share original poetry, songs,
dance and music in an open mic format. Sign up that night to perform, or
just enjoy refreshments and the work of others. Emcee is Patrice Ross, a
Just Buffalo writer in education, teacher, and performer. Members of the
community are welcome to attend.

OPEN READINGS

PHILIP TERMAN AND MARJORIE NORRIS
Wednesday, February 9, 7 P.M.., Free.
10 Slots for open readers

Philip Terman is the author of a two collections of poems: The House of
Sages (Mammoth books, 1998, second edition, 2005) and Book of the Unbroken
Days (Mammoth books, 2004). His poems and essays have appeared in numerous
journals, including Poetry, The Georgia Review, The Kenyon Review, and The
New England Review. He teaches creative writing and literature at Clarion
University, and is a director of the Chautauqua Writers' Festival. He lives
with his wife and two daughters outside of Grove City, PA.

Marjorie Norris is a Buffalo poet who has taught creative writing at Women's
Studies at SUNY at Buffalo, Just Buffalo, and at Chautauqua Institute as
well as Feminist Writing Workshops in Ithaca and in Atlanta. She recently
was a finalist in the Greensboro, North Carolina Poetry Awards, as well as
having been published in Sinister Wisdom, Wide Open, Arizona Mandala
Literary Quarterly and others. She was 1999 Writer-in-Residence at Just
Buffalo, and has received several grants to work with people with AIDS to
write their experiences in story and poems.

ONGOING

JUST BUFFALO'S NEW MEMBER'S ONLY WRITERS CRITIQUE GROUP
Wednesday, February 16 and 1st and 3rd Wednesday of each month at 7 P.M..
The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo.

Bring your poems, fiction, plays or essays for friendly critique sessions
with other writers in our new, free, member-only group led by fiction writer
Lynda Lavid.

COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS

RODRIGO TOSCANO
Poetry Reading
Thursday, Feb. 10, 4 p.m., Poetry and Rare Books Collection at SUNY Buffalo,
North Campus
Author of The Disparities, Partisans, Platform, and To Levelling Swerve.
Raised in San Diego Toscano now lives in NYC.

UNSUBSCRIBE

If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will be
immediately removed.

_______________________________
Mike Kelleher
Artistic Director
Just Buffalo Literary Center
2495 Main St., Ste. 512
Buffalo, NY 14214
716.832.5400
716.832.5710 (fax)
www.justbuffalo.org
mjk@justbuffalo.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:03:39 -0500
Reply-To:     Lori Emerson 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Lori Emerson 
Subject:      Kenneth Goldsmith & Conceptual Poetics [call for papers]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

All: please feel free to pass this on to anyone you think might be
interested in writing on Kenny Goldsmith--it's already shaping up to
be a great special issue of Open Letter!

best, Lori
===================================================

CFP: Kenneth Goldsmith and Conceptual Poetics (6/1/05; journal issue)
CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS
Deadlines: 15 March 2005 for proposals; 1 June 2005 for finished essays

Guest Editors: Barbara Cole and Lori Emerson

"In 1969, the conceptual artist Douglas Huebler wrote, 'The world is full
of objects, more or less interesting; I do not wish to add any more.' I've
come to embrace Huebler's ideas, though it might be retooled as, 'The world
is full of texts, more or less interesting; I do not wish to add any more.'
It seems an appropriate response to a new condition in writing today: faced
with an unprecedented amount of available text, the problem is not needing
to write more of it; instead, we must learn to negotiate the vast quantity
that exists. I've transformed from a writer into an information manager,
adept at the skills of replicating, organizing, mirroring, archiving,
hoarding, storing, reprinting, bootlegging, plundering, and transferring .
. I've become a master typist, an exacting cut-and-paster, and an OCR
demon . . ."
- Kenneth Goldsmith, "Being Boring"

Open Letter is seeking critical and creative submissions for a special
issue dedicated to "Kenneth Goldsmith and Conceptual Poetics."  In
particular, we hope to address the ever-broadening scope of Goldsmith's
texts (inclusive but not exhaustive): 73 Poems; No.111 2.7.93-10.20.96;
Fidget; Soliloquy; Day; Head Citations; and The Weather.  As Goldsmith's
conceptual poetics works to shift literary and artistic paradigms, we
invite essays which address non-textual activities as well as writing
practices.  The editors are particularly interested in essays which
position Goldsmith beyond a US-specific context and/or which consider
Conceptual Poetics in relation to a Canadian context.

For more information on Open Letter please visit
http://publish.uwo.ca/~fdavey/home.htm

POTENTIAL CONTEXTS from A-Z:

*  aesthetics / labor
*  the body  / gender / sexuality
*  conceptual influences (i.e. Duchamp; Warhol; Cage; etc.)
*  digital poetry
*  editorial work (Warhol interviews; /ubu editions; etc.)
*  feminist readings
*  gendered readings
*  hi-jinx, hijacking and hoaxes
*  intellectual property
*  Joycean influences
*  Kootenay School of Writing influences
*  L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E influences
*  Marxist readings / materiality / mimesis
*  New York School influences
*  originality
*  pedagogy of uncreativity / Pop influences / proceduralism
*  queer readings
*  Romanticist ideals of "originality" / reproducibility
*  sound innovations (Penn Sound; sampling; etc.)
*  Toronto Research Group
*  UBU
*  voyeurism
*  WFMU
*  x
*  y
*  Zaum influences

The above list is merely suggestive; we welcome proposals on any issue that
is relevant to Kenneth Goldsmith and Conceptual Poetics.

Essays should not exceed 5000 words in length.

SUBMISSION GUIDELINES

Please send inquiries or proposals to Barbara Cole (bacole@buffalo.edu) and
Lori Emerson (lemerson@buffalo.edu) by 15 March 2005.  Notifications of
acceptance will be made no later than 15 April 2005.  Finished essays will
be appreciated by 1 June 2005.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:01:56 -0500
Reply-To:     Mike Kelleher 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     RFC822 error:  Invalid RFC822 field - "please note the date
              for this event:". Rest of header flushed.
From:         Mike Kelleher 
Subject:      E-NEWSLETTER CORRECTION
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MS. FAT BOOTY AND THE BLACK MALE FEMINIST
A Talk by scholar Mark Anthony Neal
Tuesday, February 9
Langston Hughes Institute, 25 High Street, at 7pm.
The event is free and open to the public.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:59:15 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Alan Sondheim 
Subject:      Re: underground
In-Reply-To:  <000001c50769$910dfa20$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Quite like this work; because of the earlier bandwidth considerations,
some of the video has a punk sensibility at this point. I've been
fascinated by the way that compression itself becomes part of the content,
as it changes from click to click. The word games almost literally drive
me crazy; I found myself the night before last unable to sleep while I
tried to calculate all the dual-letter combinations tending towards vowels
such as blank, stank, crank, shank, thank, spank, clank; once you do this
it never ends - the structure rots your brain...

I remember your presentations of some of this or similar work, and there's
a sense of effusiveness that I like in it. As far as I'm concerned it
plays well online, once one is used to the compression. And it's odd to
think of this work in relation, say, to the perfection of Cayley; your
sensibility is almost pop in relation to his elegance. -

- Alan


On Mon, 31 Jan 2005, K Zervos wrote:

> http://live-wirez.gu.edu.au/Staff/Komninos/underground/entry.html
>
>
> if you have the time and the bandwidth i'd like some visitors to my new
> project.
> it's a re-working of my cd-rom for the web, trying to capture the same
> feeling of travelling through the london underground all in animated text,
> and quicktimeVR.
>
> i'd be very appreciative of any comments, good, bad, constructive,
> destructive, or indifferent.
>
>
> cheers
> komninos
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28/01/05
>



nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/
http://www.asondheim.org/
WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/
http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim
Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:32:08 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Stephen Vincent 
Subject:      Crossing the Millennium/blog note
Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and
          poetics ,
          UK POETRY 
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com

Starting on January 1st I began to input, Crossing the Millennium, 1999,
A journal and photography project in which I kept a daily journal with
photographs for the entire year. The blog format has enabled the images to
be enjoined with the text, much to my pleasure. I have yet to input all the
images with January text, but by going to the "Archive:January" one can
scroll down and get the general idea.
Since the photos - as an act - were taken independently of the making of the
journal text, the juxtapositions of what one sees and what one writes make
variously for collisions and coherences. And as a "retro" experience, in
contrast to what we call the present, it becomes curious to me (at least)
how much remains the same and how much changes and how much  exists as
prefatory omen to where we are.
February days will continue.

Thanks and - as always - will appreciate any feedback,

Stephen Vincent
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:42:46 -0700
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Tenney Nathanson 
Subject:      RIF/T archive? who's in charge? (I need to contact whoever
              manages this)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I need to get in touch w whoever is now in charge of the part of the EPC
archive where old issues of RIF/T are located.

who is that, now, and what's best email?

thanks,

Tenney

_____________

tenney nathanson
mailto:tenneyn@comcast.net
mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/index.html

pog
mailto:pog@gopog.org
http://www.gopog.org/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:57:23 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Robert Corbett 
Subject:      [discussion] re: "[announcement] and [poem] headings"
In-Reply-To:  <41FD41B4.8050606@natisp.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

i would suggest adding [discussion] as a tag, too.  i also highly recommend using yahoo or some another  web-based mailer, rather than whatever your school or institution provides.

and, Alan, please come back!

rmc

Jonathan Penton  wrote:
Poetics List Administration wrote:

>Dear all: although I like Bruce's suggestions for restructuring the
>digest form of the list, unfortunately Jim Andrews is right--the
>listserv software does not currently allow us to change the way digest
>works. But there are a couple of solutions to unwieldiness--the first
>of which would be for posters to accompany subject lines with,
>say, "[announcement]" or "[poem]" (any more categories than these
>would, I think, over-determine the list). The problem with this,
>though, is that I/we can only encourage posters to do so--there's
>really no way to enforce it except by including a note in the welcome
>message that states the merits of indicating whether a post is an
>announcement or a poem.
>
>The other solution, the best solution, is for subscribers to choose a
>different form of receiving the list. Using index html rather than
>regular digest just gives subscribers a list of the subject-headings
>of messages which are links that can then be clicked on--in fact
>you'll find that reading the list online is much more wieldy than
>reading it via email. Directions for changing your subscription
>options are outlined in the welcome message which I'll send out again
>in a few moments.
>
>About posting poems in general: it's definitely regrettable that Alan
>has unsubscribed from the list--especially since his work frequently
>provoked discussion. What I'd like to see happen more often is
>posters adhere to the aim of the list which is to promote the
>discussion of poetics and/or the exchange of announcements; if a
>subscriber's posting of their poems is not contributing to these list
>aims then they should cease posting them.
>
>As always, please do feel free to get in touch with me if you have any
>thoughts, questions, comments etc.!
>
>best,
>Lori Emerson
>listserv moderator
>
>
>
>
I would love to see [announcement] and [poem] headings, which could be
stripped if the poem (or announcement) resulted in a discussion.

--
Jonathan Penton
http://www.unlikelystories.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:04:07 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
From:         Robert Corbett 
Subject:      Re: [discussion] Sometimes Simple Remedies Are Best
In-Reply-To:  <8794403f8c353094af5c8a52d7f00f92@albany.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

welcome back, Alan.  i definitely endorse keeping your poems as texts and on the list.

and everyone should know there is something beside the delete key and digest if you want an edited list.  know a poster that you need to take time with?  then filter it to a specific folder.   presumably any email client will allow you to do this and if you have decent tech support, will put you through the steps.  and once you have done it, you can do it again ... and again ... and again

i myself have considered only lettting Pierre and Richard into my inbox (as well as myself) but that seems rather silly.

rmc

Pierre Joris  wrote:
On Jan 31, 2005, at 3:08 AM, Jesse Glass wrote:
>
> Instead of a grand reconfiguration of the list, why not simply post
> links
> to creative work as I've said all along? That would give readers the
> option of considering the talents of our culture-heroes in residence at
> their own discretion. Jesse
>
>

Jesse -- that takes longer for anyone who wants to read the poem and
exactly as long for anyone who doesn't -- but gets a message s/he has
to delete. -- Pierre

=================================================
"Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn
=================================================
For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page:
http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html
=================================================
Pierre Joris
244 Elm Street
Albany NY 12202
h: 518 426 0433
c: 518 225 7123
o: 518 442 40 85
email: joris@albany.edu
http://www.albany.edu/~joris/
=================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:37:42 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         George Bowering 
Subject:      Re: [discussion] Sometimes Simple Remedies Are Best
In-Reply-To:  <20050131190407.5260.qmail@web50402.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

On 31-Jan-05, at 11:04 AM, Robert Corbett wrote:

> and everyone should know there is something beside the delete key and
> digest if you want an edited list.

I have a big Mac. Beside my "delete" key is the + and = key. Maybe IBMs
are different.


>   know a poster that you need to take time with?  then filter it to a
> specific folder.

I have very very seldom seen any posters sent by anyone. Am I missing
part of this thread?

gb
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:02:21 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Aldon Nielsen 
Subject:      Hillary Clinton Collapsed!  (IN Buffalo!)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

where is Frank O'Hara when we really need him?

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"and now it's winter in America"
         --Gil Scott-Heron


Aldon Lynn Nielsen
George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature
Department of English
The Pennsylvania State University
116 Burrowes
University Park, PA   16802-6200

(814) 865-0091 [office]

(814) 863-7285 [Fax]
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:36:34 -0700
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jonathan Penton 
Subject:      Head count,
              please? WAS: backchannels should not be posted without permission
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes, Steve was new, to the list and the Internet as well; I'd be
surprised if he'd ever received an e-mail like that before, so his
reaction wasn't terribly surprising.

I have a quick question: how many experimental and/or "townie" poets are
still on this list? It seems most have stopped posting, and I'm
wondering if they're still around.

Regards,

--
Jonathan Penton
http://www.unlikelystories.org/


David A. Kirschenbaum wrote:

>i second jerrold on keeping backchannels just that, backchannel. my hope is
>that steve's new to the list and maybe just didn't know better. if someone
>angers you in a private email, simply email them privately and say whatever
>you want. if they had intended their views to be posted, they would have
>posted them themselves.
>
>
>on 1/31/05 1:32 AM, Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ] at
>jshiroma@DURATIONPRESS.COM wrote:
>
>
>
>>y'know, this was sent backchannel...keep it backchannel...i don't see the
>>purpose in bringing these kind of things into a public forum...
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Steve Dalachinksy" 
>>To: 
>>Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:24 PM
>>Subject: Fw: Re: Digest restructuring
>>
>>
>>here is a backchannel reply from one of our "superior" poets (ics) &
>>"thinkers" a veteran he says  who is on this list   --  thought all would
>>like to share this with me
>>
>>
>
>--
>David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher
>Boog City
>330 W.28th St., Suite 6H
>NY, NY 10001-4754
>For event and publication information:
>http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/
>T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664)
>F: (212) 842-2429
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:14:32 +1000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         K Zervos 
Subject:      Re: underground
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks alan i like the punk comment, but it's not punk it is more my =
na=EFve
aesthetic of the visual side of things.

Cheers

Komninos

keep on postin'

komninos zervos
homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos
broadband experiments:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs


|||-----Original Message-----
|||From: UB Poetics discussion group =
[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]
|||On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim
|||Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 3:59 AM
|||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
|||Subject: Re: underground
|||
|||Quite like this work; because of the earlier bandwidth =
considerations,
|||some of the video has a punk sensibility at this point. I've been
|||fascinated by the way that compression itself becomes part of the
|||content,
|||as it changes from click to click. The word games almost literally =
drive
|||me crazy; I found myself the night before last unable to sleep while =
I
|||tried to calculate all the dual-letter combinations tending towards
|||vowels
|||such as blank, stank, crank, shank, thank, spank, clank; once you do =
this
|||it never ends - the structure rots your brain...
|||
|||I remember your presentations of some of this or similar work, and
|||there's
|||a sense of effusiveness that I like in it. As far as I'm concerned it
|||plays well online, once one is used to the compression. And it's odd =
to
|||think of this work in relation, say, to the perfection of Cayley; =
your
|||sensibility is almost pop in relation to his elegance. -
|||
|||- Alan
|||
|||
|||On Mon, 31 Jan 2005, K Zervos wrote:
|||
|||> http://live-wirez.gu.edu.au/Staff/Komninos/underground/entry.html
|||>
|||>
|||> if you have the time and the bandwidth i'd like some visitors to my =
new
|||> project.
|||> it's a re-working of my cd-rom for the web, trying to capture the =
same
|||> feeling of travelling through the london underground all in =
animated
|||text,
|||> and quicktimeVR.
|||>
|||> i'd be very appreciative of any comments, good, bad, constructive,
|||> destructive, or indifferent.
|||>
|||>
|||> cheers
|||> komninos
|||>
|||> --
|||> No virus found in this outgoing message.
|||> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
|||> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28/01/05
|||>
|||
|||
|||
|||nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/
|||http://www.asondheim.org/
|||WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/
|||http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim
|||Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm
|||
|||--
|||No virus found in this incoming message.
|||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
|||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28/01/05
|||

--=20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28/01/05
=20
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:59:40 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         furniture_ press 
Subject:      Re: underground
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0

punk rock is the over.
punk rock is like the over.=20
man o man is the over or what the?

www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae

--=20
_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just=
 US$9.95 per year!


Powered by Outblaze
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:04:32 -0500
Reply-To:     Lori Emerson 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Lori Emerson 
Subject:      looking for Katherine Parrish
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Does anyone out there have a current email address for Torontonian
Katherine Parrish?  Please back-channel and all thanks,

-Lori
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:09:26 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
Comments:     Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu
Comments:     Originally-From: "Shin Yu Pai" 
From:         Poetics List Administration 
Subject:      publication announcement: Unnecessary Roughness by Shin Yu Pai
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Dear List Administrator,
Could you please post the following on my behalf? thanks!


Publication Annoucement:

My new chapbook of poems "Unnecessary Roughness" has just been released from
xPress(ed), a publisher of experimental poetry based in Europe.  It is
available through the press' distributor (lulu.com) for $7 + shipping here:

www.lulu.com/xpressed

Taking its title from the language of sports, "Unnecessary Roughness"
examines issues such as the socialization of violence through game playing
and sports, the development of adolescent identity and sexuality, pain
thresholds, and gender issues.  Poetic texts incorporating the imagery and
vocabulary of various sports, (dodge ball, baseball, cheerleading, body
building, hockey, professional wrestling, etc.), explore the role of sports
in creating and reinforcing power structures and social function.
-----------------



=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:15:39 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Jim Andrews 
Subject:      Re: underground
In-Reply-To:  <000601c507e2$3d74df40$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> Thanks alan i like the punk comment, but it's not punk it is more my naïve
> aesthetic of the visual side of things.

Honesty!

So where does that leave us, Komninos?

ja
http://vispo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:54:58 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harrison Jeff 
Subject:      The First Glimpse Of Miss Ashe
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

ashes on would-be-devoured snows
grew like wolves, even, lilies behind


would-be-devoured snows, lilies behind
tears left ashes' voice sulphury


snows midst wolves, lilies behind
would-be-devoured snows
wished of wood for the fire


fire began to ice, really,
while just the starry fell, leaving
would-be-devoured lilies behind


ember gone yet Miss Ashe
fired up this her weeping,
though I, lilies behind, suspect
she's grieved other prey
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:54:37 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Harrison Jeff 
Subject:      A Leaf From The Faucet Hill Quarrel-Book
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

the wonder sprights, already foolish
& cramped into history, those sunny
clump-by-jot animals do ring grammatically
(they thought I was of the sea, from
the slow dark of the waves, but I was
of the sky, though still counted among
the meat Virginia's characters paw)
& in the tombs of the Sun they crouch
squatted though they're wingéd
the first who beheld Moon already Moon
together they shine an immense letter
southward from Three Ghost Circle (as
the Sun is addressed on Faucet Hill)
& in the tombs of the Sun they crouch
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 1 Feb 2005 00:04:03 GMT
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "holsapple1@juno.com" 
Subject:      Re: Head count, please?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Hi Jonathan

I'm guessing by townie you mean those not affiliated with a university.  I would be one such writer.

Bruce Holsapple
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:49:57 -0800
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Richard Taylor 
Subject:      Re: Shakespeare panned? spelling (spelling?) repaired etc
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original

He tells us nothing because there is nothing to tell. And the nothing is the
everything.

Richard Taylor

Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile:

----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice
cream."------------------

Aspect Books
(N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Grumman" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: Shakespeare panned? spelling (spelling?) repaired etc


>>  Shakespeare - it is strange how this incredible
>> genius of words appears out
>> of nothing and tells of everything radiating
>> throughout time including the
>> nothing.
>
> What's incredible to me is how a superior playwright
> working with standard character types and
> deftly-chosen archetypal stories came to be seen as an
> "incredible genius" who "tells of everything radiating
> throughout time."  He doesn't.  He tells us, for
> instance, just about nothing about science or POETRY!
> (the nuts and bolts writing of it)--and nothing at all
> about the writing of plays.  And how much does he
> tells us of childhood?  There's little about the
> experience of formal education, either.  To mention
> just a few of the portions of life he overlooks.  I'm
> a big admirer of Shakespeare and think he may well
> have been the top writer of all-time, but--if so--he
> was no more than a step better than dozens of other
> writers in his coverage of the human experience.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>
>



--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:21:51 -0600
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Haas Bianchi 
Subject:      Thanks from Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com
In-Reply-To:  <001b01c508a7$f8fae500$abec36d2@com747839ba04b>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Friends of Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com

I want to thank all of you so much for using the site-after returning from
vacation in sunny Brazil we were pleased to discover that we had topped
41,000 total visits since February 1, 2004 our launch date. At least for us
this seems like a
nice large number of visits.

It is our community in Chicago and Milwaukee that makes the site work and it
is a mere reflection of the poetry in our region- but I also owe the rest of
you as well in other parts of the country and now the world.  I want to
thank all the reading series animators for sending the info in a timely way
and all the poets profiled as well for making an idea for a section into a
reality.

With our Deepest Thanks

Raymond L Bianchi,& Waltraud Haas Editors


chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/
collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 20:47:59 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mairead Byrne 
Subject:      Re: Thanks from Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com
Comments: To: saudade@comcast.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

And thanks you too Ray -- that's quite an archive -- a live one!
Mairead

>>> "Haas Bianchi"  01/29/05 8:21 PM >>>
Dear Friends of Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com

I want to thank all of you so much for using the site-after returning
from
vacation in sunny Brazil we were pleased to discover that we had topped
41,000 total visits since February 1, 2004 our launch date. At least for
us
this seems like a
nice large number of visits.

It is our community in Chicago and Milwaukee that makes the site work
and it
is a mere reflection of the poetry in our region- but I also owe the
rest of
you as well in other parts of the country and now the world.  I want to
thank all the reading series animators for sending the info in a timely
way
and all the poets profiled as well for making an idea for a section into
a
reality.

With our Deepest Thanks

Raymond L Bianchi,& Waltraud Haas Editors


chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/
collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 20:59:06 EST
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Mary Jo Malo 
Subject:      so hard to swallow
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

dinner for two by candlelight smorgasbord banquet potluck fine dining  picnic
gnash
you tellin me? you tellin me there is only one kind, one genre, one table,
one, only one?
some things make me nauseous some make my mouth water
when you lay out your puny heart weak mind i mind very much
rip out your heart put it on the table bleed for what you love what's  red
the twit of the clique that grays the greens
must find a voice that liberates that rejoices in the different the other
that
i taste what's tasteful for me
sometime it's caviar
sometimes it's fishsticks
blue channel catfish or backchannel  blues
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 1 Feb 2005 02:46:20 -0000
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         "david.bircumshaw" 
Subject:      Lurv Pome (of sorts)
Comments: To: poneme@lists.grouse.net.au, Britpo 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

LURV

Having your own Queen Victoria can be a shock to the battered system, particularly if your name happens to be David too, so the
jokes go round about THAT footballer player and the ex-Spice, and not to exclude all this, but people wanted me to call the police
last week because of her ex who wanted to do me and a guy over, the poor chap threatened was just from the Phoenix whom I'd asked to
escort us home because about Vicky's safety, not to mention my own, AND people are starting to run away from us because in this
little village of central Leicester we are getting a reputation for bringing trouble in our wake WHILE you might notice that

THIS pattern of repetitions that cannot be called form but perhaps seeks to attain structure from chaos has NO pattern at
                                                              all

All the Best


Dave




David Bircumshaw

Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet
& Painting Without Numbers

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 23:54:10 -0500
Reply-To:     UB Poetics discussion group 
Sender:       UB Poetics discussion group 
From:         Nick Piombino 
Subject:      Re: so hard to swallow
In-Reply-To:  <1ac.30e881f9.2f303c6a@aol.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Although I've several times joked
about the digest restructuring
discussion- mainly because I
assumed, in the end, there would be no
change- now that there have
been some harsh words said
I want to emphasize that I am strongly
in favor of the list structure continuing as it
has unchanged; that I am disappointed
when poets are directly or indirectly
criticized or discouraged from posting
their creations here, and finally, I
am strongly opposed to hard and
fast distinctions between poetry and poetics...
though I also certainly don't object when some someone
chooses to identify a work as one or the other...If someone
wants to label their work, that is fine...but I
particularly treasure ambiguities and creative
misreadings...and stumbling upon a poem I didn't
expect...didn't expect to think about...so much...
like the one below...

Nick



On 1/31/05 8:59 PM, "Mary Jo Malo"  wrote:

> dinner for two by candlelight smorgasbord banquet potluck fine dining  picnic
> gnash
> you tellin me? you tellin me there is only one kind, one genre, one table,
> one, only one?
> some things make me nauseous some make my mouth water
> when you lay out your puny heart weak mind i mind very much
> rip out your heart put it on the table bleed for what you love what's  red
> the twit of the clique that grays the greens
> must find a voice that liberates that rejoices in the different the other
> that
> i taste what's tasteful for me
> sometime it's caviar
> sometimes it's fishsticks
> blue channel catfish or backchannel  blues