========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 01:46:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 's Small, Small Press Fair and Babs Soft Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit please forward --------------- Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press Second Annual NYC Small, Small Press Fair Thurs. July 7, 6 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Featuring publications from: Beet/Pink Pages Detour Press Explosive magazine/Spectacular Books Futurepoem Books Litmus Press/Aufgabe Pom Pom Press Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs Sona Books Stay Free! magazine Ugly Duckling Presse Urban Folk zine and more and readings of some of their own work by these editors: Dave Cuomo (Urban Folk) Tracy Grinnell (Litmus) Brenda Iijima (Portable Press) Katy Lederer (Explosive) Dan Machlin (Futurepoem) Jill Magi (Sona) Joe Maynard (Beet) Carrie McLaren (Stay Free!) Gary Sullivan (Detour) and more With music by Babs Soft and friends There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues www.futurepoem.com www.litmuspress.org www.spectacularbooks.com www.pompompress.com www.sonaweb.net/brendaiijima.htm www.sonaweb.net www.stayfreemagazine.org www.uglyducklingpresse.org www.myspace.com/urbanfolkzine For further information: 212-842-BOOG (2664) or editor@boogcity.com Next event: Boog 14th Anniversary Party, Aug. 4 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 06:47:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: { brad brace } Subject: The 12hr ISBN-JPEG Project In-Reply-To: <200507010401.j61417RD007707@ultra5.eskimo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII _ |__ __| | /_ |__ \| | | __| | | | (_) | | __/ (__| |_ __ | | | | | | __/ | |/ /_| | | | | _ | | | '_ \ / _ \ | | / /| '_ \| '__| The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> posted since 1994 <<<< _ | | | '_ \ / _ \ | | / /| '_ \| '__| -_ | | | |__ ___ | | ) | |__ _ __ _ | __ \ (_) | | You begin to sense the byshadows that stretch from the awe of global dominance. How the intersecting systems help pull us apart, leaving us vague, drained, docile, soft in our inner discourse, willing to be shaped, to be overwhelmed -- easy retreats, half beliefs. | __| | | | (_) | | __/ (__| |_ _ | | | '_ \ / _ \ | | / /| '_ \| '__| _| |__) | __ ___ _ ___ ___| |_ |_ ___/ '__/ _ \| |/ _ \/ __| __| |_| _ |_| \___/| |\___|\___|\__| _ _/ | _ |__/ > > > > Synopsis: The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project began December 30, 1994. A `round-the-clock posting of sequenced hypermodern imagery from Brad Brace. The hypermodern minimizes the familiar, the known, the recognizable; it suspends identity, relations and history. This discourse, far from determining the locus in which it speaks, is avoiding the ground on which it could find support. It is trying to operate a decentering that leaves no privilege to any center. The 12-hour ISBN JPEG Project ----------------------------- began December 30, 1994 Pointless Hypermodern Imagery... posted/mailed every 12 hours... a spectral, trajective alignment for the 00`s! A continuum of minimalist masks in the face of catastrophe; conjuring up transformative metaphors for the everyday... A poetic reversibility of exclusive events... A post-rhetorical, continuous, apparently random sequence of imagery... genuine gritty, greyscale... corruptable, compact, collectable and compelling convergence. The voluptuousness of the grey imminence: the art of making the other disappear. Continual visual impact; an optical drumming, sculpted in duration, on the endless present of the Net. An extension of the printed ISBN-Book (0-9690745) series... critically unassimilable... imagery is gradually acquired, selected and re-sequenced over time... ineluctable, vertiginous connections. The 12hr dialtone... [ see http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/netcom/books.txt ] KEYWORDS: >> Disconnected, disjunctive, distended, de-centered, de-composed, ambiguous, augmented, ambilavent, homogeneous, reckless... >> Multi-faceted, oblique, obsessive, obscure, obdurate... >> Promulgated, personal, permeable, prolonged, polymorphous, provocative, poetic, plural, perverse, potent, prophetic, pathological, pointless... >> Emergent, evolving, eccentric, eclectic, egregious, exciting, entertaining, evasive, entropic, erotic, entrancing, enduring, expansive... Every 12 hours, another!... view them, re-post `em, save `em, trade `em, print `em, even publish them... Here`s how: ~ Set www-links to -> http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/12hr.html -> http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/12hr.html -> http://bbrace.net/12hr.html -> http://noemata.net/12hr/ Look for the 12-hr-icon. Heavy traffic may require you to specify files more than once! Anarchie, Fetch, CuteFTP, TurboGopher... ~ Download from -> ftp.rdrop.com /pub/users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.eskimo.com /u/b/bbrace Download from -> hotline://artlyin.ftr.va.com.au Download from -> ftp://bjornmag:Sobject@kunst.no/12hr/12hr.jpeg * Remember to set tenex or binary. Get 12hr.jpeg ~ E-mail -> If you only have access to email, then you can use FTPmail to do essentially the same thing. Send a message with a body of 'help' to the server address nearest you: * ftpmail@ccc.uba.ar ftpmail@cs.uow.edu.au ftpmail@ftp.uni-stuttgart.de ftpmail@ftp.Dartmouth.edu ftpmail@ieunet.ie ftpmail@src.doc.ic.ac.uk ftpmail@archie.inesc.pt ftpmail@ftp.sun.ac.za ftpmail@ftp.sunet.se ftpmail@ftp.luth.se ftpmail@NCTUCCCA.edu.tw ftpmail@oak.oakland.edu ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com ftpmail@census.gov bitftp@plearn.bitnet bitftp@dearn.bitnet bitftp@vm.gmd.de bitftp@plearn.edu.pl bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu bitftp@pucc.bitnet * * ~ Mirror-sites requested! Archives too! The latest new jpeg will always be named, 12hr.jpeg Average size of images is only 45K. * Perl program to mirror ftp-sites/sub-directories: src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/packages/mirror * ~ Postings to usenet newsgroups: 12hr alt.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.misc alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc * * Ask your system's news-administrator to carry these groups! (There are also usenet image browsers: TIFNY, PluckIt, Picture Agent, PictureView, Extractor97, NewsRover, Binary News Assistant, EasyNews) ~ This interminable, relentless (online) sequence of imagery began in earnest on December 30, 1994. The basic structure of the project has been over twenty-five years in the making. While the specific sequence of photographs has been presently orchestrated for many years` worth of 12-hour postings, I will undoubtedly be tempted to tweak the ongoing publication with additional new interjected imagery. Each 12-hour image is like the turning of a page; providing ample time for reflection, interruption, and assimilation. ~ The sites listed above also contain information on other cultural projects and sources. ~ A very low-volume, moderated mailing list for announcements and occasional commentary related to this project has been established at topica.com /subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg -- This project has not received government art-subsidies. Some opportunities still exist for financially assisting the publication of editions of large (33x46") prints; perhaps (Iris giclees) inkjet duotones or extended-black quadtones. Other supporters receive rare copies of the first three web-offset printed ISBN-Books. Contributions and requests for 12hr-email-subscriptions, can also be made at http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/buy-into.html, or by mailed cheque/check: $5/mo $50/yr. Art-institutions must pay for any images retained longer than 12 hours. -- ISBN is International Standard Book Number. JPEG and GIF are types of image files. Get the text-file, 'pictures-faq' to learn how to view or translate these images. [http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/netcom/pictures -faq.html] -- (c) Credit appreciated. Copyleft 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 12:10:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: update at www.UnlikelyStories.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings loyalists and saboteurs! There is a new update of www.UnlikelyStories.org, featuring: SGT Marshall Smith on the merits of pedophilia "Moloch in the Mirror" by Phil Rockstroh "Free Jazz: The Jazz Revolution of the 60's" by Robert Levin An interview with Pablo Teasdale by Christopher Robin and Brian Morrisey "A Sardine on Vacation" on the illogic of marriage Politicized pornography by Amanda Earl More fiction by Joel Van Noord, Delphine LeCompte, Sean Kilpatrick, Bob Conklin, and Brent Powers Poetry by Bob Marcacci, Abraham Gibson, Lyn Lifshin, Richard Fein, Elizabeth Switaj, M. Andre Vancrown, Ulrich R. Kane, Tom Savage and Bill Kushner Remember: Trust no one, unless you know them personally. I would rather lose a few men to accident than the entire base due to carelessness. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 12:33:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: What's new on ::fait accompli:: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit this week on ::fait accompli:: http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com *Notebook 1/7/05: Bits and Pieces and Fillipo Lippi (1406- 1469) at the Met **Ludwig Wittgenstein's Zettel: *The Soft Voice of Philosophy* and *Community of Ideas* ***Links: Frank Kuenstler's superb, touching, hilarious reading on Penn Sound -also new on Penn Sound: new readings and interviews with numerous poets: U Penn and WPS1 -Charles Bernstein and Brian Ferneyhough's *Shadowtime* (a "thought opera" on Walter Benjamin): July 21 and July 22 at Lincoln Center's Frederick P. Rose Hall -*A Walk in Shenzhen* photo/poetry collaboration by Steven Shroeder and Maryann O'Donnell lyrical evocation of The People's Republic of China ****Preview of Vincent Katz' new magazine *Vanitas*; comments on the reading/celebration at the Bowery Poetry Club *****A Midsummer Night's Blurb *Mermaid's Purse* by Laynie Browne *Fox of Gold* by Julia T. Mayhew ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 14:06:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Editors, Tarpaulin Sky" Subject: Tarpaulin Sky V3n2 Summer 05 In-Reply-To: <200506290400.j5T40L93019686@sma11.ftl.affinity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Readers & Friends, Tarpaulin Sky V3n2 Summer 05 is online at http://www.tarpaulinsky.com and features new work by Robyn Art, Jeff Encke, Rebecca Gopoian, Annalynn Hammond, Daniel Kane, Joyelle McSweeney, Cheryl Pallant, Juliana Spahr, Jane Sprague, Steve Timm, and Sasha Watson. Also in this issue: Jonathan Skinner and Jane Sprague on eco-publishing, Deanne Lundin's review of Heidi Lynn Staples' _Guess Can Gallop_, and art by Gregory Euclide. We would also like to announce the Fall 05 Tarpaulin Sky / Frequency Series Readings in NYC: Featured readers will include Robyn Art, Jen Benka, Jenny Boully, Dan Chelotti, Jan Clausen, Josh Corey, Barbara DeCesare, Elena Georgiou, Michael Gottlieb, Amy King, Mary A. Koncel, Joan Larkin, Jeffrey Levine, Ada Limón, Dan Machlin, Paul McCormick, Fred Muratori, Christian Peet, Heidi Lynn Staples, Sasha Watson, and Jonah Winter. Please visit the website for details. All best, Editors, Tarpaulin Sky http://www.tarpaulinsky.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:43:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Blog: New this past month Comments: cc: "Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, UK POETRY Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Summer Reading? This past month up on my blog http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com: 1. "When the tall bucket..." poem w/ additional commentary on Flarf 2. "Walk, Sunday, June 26" 3. Peach Creative w/ Mom 4. Beverly Dahlen 5. Whalen, Corman & Zukfosky 6. Roses 7. Sappho - two entries of translations Access entries through the index on the sidebar. Comments appreciated. Enjoy: Stephen Vincent Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 21:50:20 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: PLEASE REMOVE Comments: To: Mark Weiss In-Reply-To: <25985168.1120148535168.JavaMail.root@wamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Mark Weiss wrote: > Sorry all, I'm abroad, as they say, Mark, While I think it's great that you feel comfortable talking so candidly on this list isn't the lingo a bit seventies? Wouldn't 'woman' be more appropriate? But then again, I shouldn't judge you until I've danced a mile in your pumps. Happy Beaumont Hamel Day! Kevin Cape Freels, NL ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 04:12:50 -0700 Reply-To: r_loden@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: my Hugh Hefner poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you're so inclined, "Miss October" is at Poetry Daily today. http://www.poems.com/today.htm ---------------------------------------------------------- Rachel Loden The Richard Nixon Snow Globe: http://www.wildhoneypress.com/BOOKS/RNSG.htm r_loden@sbcglobal.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 20:12:18 +0200 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: West Lima, WI early 1900s In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Very interesting pictures, I first thought of Lima in South America... I like this place, and I think that 60 people are enough, sometimes, take care, Anny On 7/1/05, mIEKAL aND wrote: > A few photo-postcards from the early 1900s of West Lima, WI, the tiny > town that Dreamtime Village is located in. At the time of these photos > this place was a thriving metropolis of 300 or so & most people rarely > left town because everything they needed to get by could be purchased > in town. Now West Lima is about 60 people & the sole business is the > pepsi machine across the street. My fave foto in this series is the > one called "The Streets of West Lima" which shows the crossroads > outside my door, but back then there was a big old elm right in the > middle of the crossroads. These days the tree is gone but now we have > Amish teenagers speeding thru the 4 way stop without stopping. >=20 > http://www.dreamtimevillage.org/gallery/lima_history >=20 > ~mIEKAL >=20 > Dreamtime Village > Hypermedia Permaculture EcoVillage in Southwest Wisconsin > http://www.dreamtimevillage.org > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 14:00:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit OKAY, I did it---finally testing the waters and succumbing to the BLOGOSPHERE Just up---first two posts. 1. Oakland "My" Oakland---some loose tentative thoughts about the WAYANS BROTHERS hope to build a movie studio in Oakland, the local RAGazine THE BOOTY CRACK, the CULTURAL SEGREGRATION of blacks and whites in Oaktown against a backdrop of gentrification, etc. 2. (of potentially more interest here) Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender"? Some thoughts, and a defense, not just of Creeley's love poetry and prose, but of the kind of thinking he did, and a plea that such thinking/feeling may still be relevant today....(warning: a little "over the top" this may be, written very shortly after his death, while very shaken up).... Oh yeah, here's the link--- http://blog.myspace.com/continuouspeasant comments always appreciated ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:55:56 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Apartment trade/sublet NY Aug/Sept 05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Poetics Listees, I am posting this on behalf of a friend here in Sydney. Can anyone assist with accommodation ? Thanks, Pam Brown ______________________ Sublet wanted ______________________ Australian multimedia artist working in Brooklyn (DUMBO - St Anne's Theatre) from mid August to end of September seeking temporary sublet. Either share apartment with others or sublet one bedroom apartment. I will be working 6 days a week, am responsible, considerate and quiet, and very well housetrained. DUMBO, Brooklyn Heights, Clinton Hill, Boerum Hill, Carrol Gardens, Park Slope or Lower Manhattan. Access to F, A, C, E trains, or the 2/3. Email kate.richards@bigpond.com __________________________________________ Apartment swap wanted _____________________________________ Sydney (Australia) multimedia artist working in Brooklyn (DUMBO - St Anne's Theatre) from mid August to end of September seeking to swap apartments. I will be working 6 days a week, am responsible, considerate and quiet, and very well housetrained. My apartment in Sydney is sea-side, very bright and sunny, renovated 1960s, security building. It is 1 bedroom + library with sofa bed + studio. Check out Dover Heights or Vaucluse for location. Cable internet; broadcast TV. Easy access to great running tracks, beaches, city; groovy Bondi Beach café scene. I need an apartment in DUMBO, Brooklyn Heights, Clinton Hill, Boerum Hill, Carrol Gardens, Park Slope or Lower Manhattan. Access to F, A, C, E trains, or the 2/3. Email kate.richards@bigpond.com ________________________________________ Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ ____________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Try Yahoo! Photomail Beta: Send up to 300 photos in one email! http://au.photomail.mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 18:24:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? In-Reply-To: <200507022037.j62KbwA0415812@pimout2-ext.prodigy.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Chris S., Read yr creeley thoughts w/ great interest as I am trying to (un)formulate thoughts abt dear Bob myself. Some friends, knowing he was the central contemporary poet for me, have asked abt his life with women. I can say that his generosity was unlimited, and to me as a young poet in Cambridge in the early '70s, when I asked if I cd talk to him abt poetry once that summer, he sd, "Come every week." So I did. He let Celia Gilbert and me interview him. He wrote a blurb for my first book. He came to Boston to read for Oxfam America readings I was organizing. In recent years he came to my classes at the NEng Conservatory of Music, even Xeroxing handouts himself. Sure, he loved to talk and be with people, but that's part of the point. One felt his kindness and kindliness. At the same time, he was a kind of Dostoyevsky character in his poetry. There was a guy, Robert Creeley, who appeared in his poems. This guy was the existential person of our time. I read Creeley always thinking of his poems as current and newly meaningful, because he was asking about and tentatively coming to statements, filled with feeling, about what it means to be alive,in our time & in any time.What we all have in common was his subject, I feel. Denise Levertov and Adrienne Rich were the other essential poets for me, and I never felt conflict going from Rich to Creeley. Each was vast and sincere while questioning the notion of sincerity. Three times I've gone to visit Bob at Tulip Lane in Mt. Auburn Cemetery and each time what comes to mind, after the existential shock that he doesn't exist now, is what he said, "If it isn't fun, don't do it." Is that gender-laden? I dunno, but it reminds me as well as any guy, once I can get past what I mist do, to choose. I wrote some poems for Bob in the weeks after he died. One of them is a realization that came for the first time in my life about the importance of art, which had often seemed flimsy in the face of humanity's suffering. I was standing outside thinking nothing means anything bec Bob died, people die, and I thought, Why did people love Bob so much? Because he was a great poet! He was able to say what most people cannot, and what we long to hear other people say. One of the few times on this earth when a human being, lovely to see and hear as he was, went beyond sex. Bob was called a lyric poet and an innovative poet. Impossibly, he managed both. On 7/2/05 6:00 PM, "Chris Stroffolino" wrote: > OKAY, I did it---finally testing the waters and succumbing to the > BLOGOSPHERE > > Just up---first two posts. > > 1. Oakland "My" Oakland---some loose tentative thoughts about the WAYANS > BROTHERS hope to build a movie studio in Oakland, the local RAGazine THE > BOOTY CRACK, the CULTURAL SEGREGRATION of blacks and whites in Oaktown > against a backdrop of gentrification, etc. > > 2. (of potentially more interest here) Was Robert Creeley "stupid about > gender"? Some thoughts, and a defense, not just of Creeley's love poetry and > prose, but of the kind of thinking he did, and a plea that such > thinking/feeling may still be relevant today....(warning: a little "over the > top" this may be, written very shortly after his death, while very shaken > up).... > > Oh yeah, here's the link--- > > http://blog.myspace.com/continuouspeasant > > comments always appreciated ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 20:40:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you Ruth for sharing your experiences with us. Being an existentialist myself is what led me to Creeley's work. The more I learn about his generosity and see him on video as he taught and read his poems, I learn to appreciate the man himself even more than his poetry! Mary Jo Malo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 02:23:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for creeley(4-24-92) truth is an apple an apple is truth no one should tell us what truth is ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 08:30:12 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Creeley & Gender... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob began as a student at Harvard with Norman Mailer He was a Hemingwayesque ambulance driver in Burma The Gold Diggers and Island are hermetic macho texts... He lived long 'nuf to have Pen institute vegeterianism at the ol' homestead.. what a strange trip it's been... ladies & gents hold on to yr skirts... drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 08:43:35 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like that, Steve. no one should tell us what's true we want company not sympathy maybe empathy certainly not epistemology though it's phenomenal that we can share an apple green red or yellow ************************** for creeley(4-24-92) truth is an apple an apple is truth no one should tell us what truth is ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 08:54:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" wow i'm so glad to learn that bob creeley is at mt auburn cemetery, with my dad (on coral lane)! now when i visit i can do a two-fer! At 6:24 PM -0400 7/2/05, Ruth Lepson wrote: >Dear Chris S., > >Read yr creeley thoughts w/ great interest as I am trying to (un)formulate >thoughts abt dear Bob myself. Some friends, knowing he was the central >contemporary poet for me, have asked abt his life with women. I can say that >his generosity was unlimited, and to me as a young poet in Cambridge in the >early '70s, when I asked if I cd talk to him abt poetry once that summer, he >sd, "Come every week." So I did. He let Celia Gilbert and me interview him. >He wrote a blurb for my first book. He came to Boston to read for Oxfam >America readings I was organizing. In recent years he came to my classes at >the NEng Conservatory of Music, even Xeroxing handouts himself. Sure, he >loved to talk and be with people, but that's part of the point. One felt his >kindness and kindliness. > >At the same time, he was a kind of Dostoyevsky character in his poetry. >There was a guy, Robert Creeley, who appeared in his poems. This guy was the >existential person of our time. I read Creeley always thinking of his poems >as current and newly meaningful, because he was asking about and tentatively >coming to statements, filled with feeling, about what it means to be >alive,in our time & in any time.What we all have in common was his subject, >I feel. Denise Levertov and Adrienne Rich were the other essential poets for >me, and I never felt conflict going from Rich to Creeley. Each was vast and >sincere while questioning the notion of sincerity. > >Three times I've gone to visit Bob at Tulip Lane in Mt. Auburn Cemetery and >each time what comes to mind, after the existential shock that he doesn't >exist now, is what he said, "If it isn't fun, don't do it." Is that >gender-laden? I dunno, but it reminds me as well as any guy, once I can get >past what I mist do, to choose. > >I wrote some poems for Bob in the weeks after he died. One of them is a >realization that came for the first time in my life about the importance of >art, which had often seemed flimsy in the face of humanity's suffering. I >was standing outside thinking nothing means anything bec Bob died, people >die, and I thought, Why did people love Bob so much? Because he was a great >poet! He was able to say what most people cannot, and what we long to hear >other people say. One of the few times on this earth when a human being, >lovely to see and hear as he was, went beyond sex. > >Bob was called a lyric poet and an innovative poet. Impossibly, he managed >both. > > >On 7/2/05 6:00 PM, "Chris Stroffolino" wrote: > >> OKAY, I did it---finally testing the waters and succumbing to the >> BLOGOSPHERE >> >> Just up---first two posts. >> >> 1. Oakland "My" Oakland---some loose tentative thoughts about the WAYANS >> BROTHERS hope to build a movie studio in Oakland, the local RAGazine THE >> BOOTY CRACK, the CULTURAL SEGREGRATION of blacks and whites in Oaktown >> against a backdrop of gentrification, etc. >> >> 2. (of potentially more interest here) Was Robert Creeley "stupid about >> gender"? Some thoughts, and a defense, not just of Creeley's love poetry and >> prose, but of the kind of thinking he did, and a plea that such >> thinking/feeling may still be relevant today....(warning: a little "over the >> top" this may be, written very shortly after his death, while very shaken >> up).... >> >> Oh yeah, here's the link--- >> >> http://blog.myspace.com/continuouspeasant >> >> comments always appreciated -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 10:00:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Maria Good to hear from you & hope you find Mt A a peaceful grove to talk to Bob. Best, Ruth L. On 7/3/05 9:54 AM, "Maria Damon" wrote: > wow i'm so glad to learn that bob creeley is at mt auburn cemetery, > with my dad (on coral lane)! now when i visit i can do a two-fer! > > At 6:24 PM -0400 7/2/05, Ruth Lepson wrote: >> Dear Chris S., >> >> Read yr creeley thoughts w/ great interest as I am trying to (un)formulate >> thoughts abt dear Bob myself. Some friends, knowing he was the central >> contemporary poet for me, have asked abt his life with women. I can say that >> his generosity was unlimited, and to me as a young poet in Cambridge in the >> early '70s, when I asked if I cd talk to him abt poetry once that summer, he >> sd, "Come every week." So I did. He let Celia Gilbert and me interview him. >> He wrote a blurb for my first book. He came to Boston to read for Oxfam >> America readings I was organizing. In recent years he came to my classes at >> the NEng Conservatory of Music, even Xeroxing handouts himself. Sure, he >> loved to talk and be with people, but that's part of the point. One felt his >> kindness and kindliness. >> >> At the same time, he was a kind of Dostoyevsky character in his poetry. >> There was a guy, Robert Creeley, who appeared in his poems. This guy was the >> existential person of our time. I read Creeley always thinking of his poems >> as current and newly meaningful, because he was asking about and tentatively >> coming to statements, filled with feeling, about what it means to be >> alive,in our time & in any time.What we all have in common was his subject, >> I feel. Denise Levertov and Adrienne Rich were the other essential poets for >> me, and I never felt conflict going from Rich to Creeley. Each was vast and >> sincere while questioning the notion of sincerity. >> >> Three times I've gone to visit Bob at Tulip Lane in Mt. Auburn Cemetery and >> each time what comes to mind, after the existential shock that he doesn't >> exist now, is what he said, "If it isn't fun, don't do it." Is that >> gender-laden? I dunno, but it reminds me as well as any guy, once I can get >> past what I mist do, to choose. >> >> I wrote some poems for Bob in the weeks after he died. One of them is a >> realization that came for the first time in my life about the importance of >> art, which had often seemed flimsy in the face of humanity's suffering. I >> was standing outside thinking nothing means anything bec Bob died, people >> die, and I thought, Why did people love Bob so much? Because he was a great >> poet! He was able to say what most people cannot, and what we long to hear >> other people say. One of the few times on this earth when a human being, >> lovely to see and hear as he was, went beyond sex. >> >> Bob was called a lyric poet and an innovative poet. Impossibly, he managed >> both. >> >> >> On 7/2/05 6:00 PM, "Chris Stroffolino" wrote: >> >>> OKAY, I did it---finally testing the waters and succumbing to the >>> BLOGOSPHERE >>> >>> Just up---first two posts. >>> >>> 1. Oakland "My" Oakland---some loose tentative thoughts about the WAYANS >>> BROTHERS hope to build a movie studio in Oakland, the local RAGazine THE >>> BOOTY CRACK, the CULTURAL SEGREGRATION of blacks and whites in Oaktown >>> against a backdrop of gentrification, etc. >>> >>> 2. (of potentially more interest here) Was Robert Creeley "stupid about >>> gender"? Some thoughts, and a defense, not just of Creeley's love poetry >>> and >>> prose, but of the kind of thinking he did, and a plea that such >>> thinking/feeling may still be relevant today....(warning: a little "over >>> the >>> top" this may be, written very shortly after his death, while very shaken >>> up).... >>> >>> Oh yeah, here's the link--- >>> >>> http://blog.myspace.com/continuouspeasant >>> >>> comments always appreciated > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 10:02:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? In-Reply-To: <8e.2a822c01.2ff88e14@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks for writing, Mary. Of course you're right we loved the man more than the poems but the man was the poems, too. Glad to know of a another existentialist. Best, Ruth L. On 7/2/05 8:40 PM, "Mary Jo Malo" wrote: > Thank you Ruth for sharing your experiences with us. Being an existentialist > myself is what led me to Creeley's work. The more I learn about his > generosity and see him on video as he taught and read his poems, I learn to > appreciate the man himself even more than his poetry! > > Mary Jo Malo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:06:46 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Jeffrey Side's blog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I now have a blog up and running at http://jeffreyside.tripod.com/ There are entires on an article on Corso and Ginsberg I read. And more of my complaints about mainstream poetry. -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:28:45 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: "Beware Of 'Whitey'" Bearing Gifts Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ "Beware Of 'Whitey'" Bearing Gifts And Fuck The Pop Music Simpletons: Debt Cut Means Foreclosure for Poorest Nations; Re-Establishment of Colonialism, Slavery: Deal Would Cancel $40 Billion in Loans In Return For Draconian Collateral Written Into IMF Agreements To Be Paid Upon Default; Privatization And Western Purchase Of De-Nationalized Mines, Utilities, Water Rights; No Unions & Low Wages; No Healthcare; No Education; Land Forfeiture; No Commies Or Socialists Need Get Elected Here; Foreign Goods Push Out Indigenous Ones; IMF Managed Food Programs & Destruction Of Indigenous Crops And Their Seeds, Replaced With Sterile Western Seed Requiring Hard Currency For Annual Purchase; Generic Drugs Produced By Africans To Fight Aids Outlawed So U.S. Drug Companies That Bill Gates Is Heavily Investigated In Make All The Money; Foreign Presence On National Bank And Currency Boards, Maintenance Of Cronyism With West, Structural Adjustment Loans, Foreign Military Presence, Consultant Fees For U.S. Cronies, Training Repressive Police Force And Army etc. etc. Ad Nauseam Until After A Few Years The Country And Its People Would Have Been Far Better Off If 'Whitey' Had Colonized Mars Or Been Taken Up In The Rapture Like He Fuckin' Promised Us He Would: Western Contractors Lined Up To Steal New Round Of Loans: Bono, Geldof: Wanton Debt Dupes Or Shilling For The IMF Thieves? Shouldn't They Stick To Writing And Producing Nursery Rhymes For Adults? "Along With Iraq, This Is Tony Blair's Legacy. We Can Only Ask---Who Brought The Rope!!" By PALL BULLSTAIN They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 14:43:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Mana, the Movie Comments: cc: chris sullivan In-Reply-To: <24688314.1120419120165.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable In case you are in the neighborhood of San Francisco, Chris Sullivan, the unredoubtable, swears by this movie coming to the Roxie this Friday. I have sworn to go.=20 Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com >=20 >=20 > MANA =97 BEYOND BELIEF > Directed by Roger Manley and Peter Friedman >=20 > OPENING FRIDAY, JULY 8 > Roxie Cinema > 3117 16th St. > San Francisco, CA >=20 > On both Friday, July 8, and Saturday, July 9, Roger Manley and Peter > Friedman will be present for Q&A following evening screenings. >=20 > MANA =96 BEYOND BELIEF screens nightly at 6 PM, 8 PM and 9:45 PM, with > Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday matinees at 2 PM and 4 PM. General > admission $8. Roxie box office: 415/863.1087 > http://www.roxie.com > http://www.mana-the-movie.com >=20 > =93Spectacular imagery, ingenious juxtapositions and a rousing sense of > showmanship . . . marry Friedman's drop-dead aesthetic sense with > Manley's ethnological zingers.=94 > =97 VARIETY, New York >=20 > =93MANA is undeniably beautiful to watch . . . the objects of desire have > probably never looked nicer. It=92s fascinating to watch how everyday > objects turn suddenly mystical and how mystical things turn perversely > ordinary.=94 > =97SFIST, San Francisco >=20 > Mana is Polynesian for =93power object=94=97the things we invest with an > often-mystical significance. Sometimes it=92s religious, like the Shroud > of Turin; sometimes it=92s patriotic, like the American flag; and > sometimes it=92s pretty absurd, like Graceland. A hit at this year's SF > Doc Fest, Friedman and Manley=92s glorious film weaves a web across the > world, connecting power objects from Elvis to Buddha, from the cherry > blossoms of Japan to a lowrider=92s Chevy in New Mexico, with stops in > Africa, India, New Zealand and Elsewhere. Blissfully exposition-free, > the film simply unfurls, presenting the spectacle of people worshipping > stuff with sly, zenlike calm and absolutely astonishing cinematography. > Sure to be the next RIVERS AND TIDES-like phenomenon, it=92ll give you a > buzz you won=92t shake for a long time. >=20 > =93MANA=97Beyond Belief=94 is 92 minutes and was shot in 10 countries. > For more information about the film please visit: > www.mana-the-movie.com (with trailer). >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:13:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: On the streets with the man who coined the word "weblog" Comments: To: Writing and Theory across Disciplines , neologisms@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Robot Wisdom on the Street=A0 http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.07/posts.html?pg=3D6 A bum in a Google cap. Now there's a sign of the times, I think as he=20 shambles toward me. He looks pretty much like any other tattered street=20= person in San Francisco - long, windblown dirty-blond hair with a beard=20= to match. Unbuttoned shirttails flapping in the afternoon breeze. But he's walking with someone I recognize - Andrew, a dapper writer=20 I've known for years. We stop on the sidewalk, and Andrew introduces me=20= to the guy in the Google cap: "This is Jorn Barger," he begins.=20 "Another homeless blogger," his companion finishes. Jorn Barger. It takes me a moment to recognize the name. Barger is an=20 online legend I've been following for a decade. He was the unstoppable=20= Usenet poster who could carry on simultaneous debates about Ibsen,=20 Chomsky, artificial intelligence, and Kate Bush. He was the keeper of=20 the James Joyce FAQ. Barger's prolific posting made him famous, if not=20= popular, in the proto blogosphere. Barger crossed over from Usenet to the Web in 1997 and set up his own=20 site, which he dubbed the Robot Wisdom Weblog. He began logging his=20 online discoveries as he stumbled on them - hence "weblog." I barely=20 understood what he was talking about, and still I read him giddily.=20 Barger gave a name to the fledgling phenomenon and set the tone for a=20 million blogs to come. Robot Wisdom bounced unapologetically from high=20= culture to low, from silly to serious, from politics to porn. But unlike today's blabby bloggers, Barger steadily honed his=20 one-paragraph posts into shorter and more compact bursts. By mid-2000,=20= he'd shrunk Robot Wisdom into a list of links centered on a minimalist=20= page. His style merged the ethereal brevity of haiku (another peculiar=20= Usenet subgenre) with the restless topic-hopping of Joyce: Interesting pic from Spielberg's Kubrick's A.I. Israeli settler gets wrist-slap for kicking 10yo Palestinian to death Mount Fuji webcams jealous of popo's eruptions? Variable-star mira's mysterious horn My new theory of "information density" Fiendishly clever spam pitch Five years later, in the San Francisco afternoon, it's hard to=20 reconcile these energetic and intellectually omnivorous posts with the=20= anxious, awkward man on the sidewalk. Speaking quietly in sentences as=20= short as his blog entries, Barger seems ready to implode. It turns out=20= he has good reasons: Homeless and broke at age 53, he allowed the=20 domain registration for robotwisdom.com to lapse and can't afford to=20 re-up it. He has abandoned his Chicago apartment and is staying on=20 Andrew's floor while he tries to get back on his feet. He's looking for=20= work - sort of. After a few hands-in-pockets attempts at small talk, we=20= give up. I continue up the hill. A few weeks later, I find out that Barger has recovered his domain -=20 and Robot Wisdom pops back up online. I hunt him down for a pint at a=20 local pub and he tells me he's moving on, this time to Memphis. He says=20= he avoids the need for a job by living on less than a dollar a day. "I=20= was carrying a cardboard sign when we met that day," he tells me. "I=20 wasn't sure if I should show it to you. I figured if things didn't work=20= out with Andrew I could pick up some change." On his panhandler sign,=20 Barger had written: Coined the term 'weblog,' never made a dime. - Paul Boutin= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:22:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: On the streets with the man who coined the word "weblog" In-Reply-To: <72b3cce35fa812dc0fee0c9c407fd0da@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" wow, my kinda guy. this is both beautiful and heartbreaking. At 5:13 PM -0500 7/3/05, mIEKAL aND wrote: >Robot Wisdom on the Street > >http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.07/posts.html?pg=6 > >A bum in a Google cap. Now there's a sign of the times, I think as >he shambles toward me. He looks pretty much like any other tattered >street person in San Francisco - long, windblown dirty-blond hair >with a beard to match. Unbuttoned shirttails flapping in the >afternoon breeze. > >But he's walking with someone I recognize - Andrew, a dapper writer >I've known for years. We stop on the sidewalk, and Andrew introduces >me to the guy in the Google cap: "This is Jorn Barger," he begins. >"Another homeless blogger," his companion finishes. > >Jorn Barger. It takes me a moment to recognize the name. Barger is >an online legend I've been following for a decade. He was the >unstoppable Usenet poster who could carry on simultaneous debates >about Ibsen, Chomsky, artificial intelligence, and Kate Bush. He was >the keeper of the James Joyce FAQ. Barger's prolific posting made >him famous, if not popular, in the proto blogosphere. > >Barger crossed over from Usenet to the Web in 1997 and set up his >own site, which he dubbed the Robot Wisdom Weblog. He began logging >his online discoveries as he stumbled on them - hence "weblog." I >barely understood what he was talking about, and still I read him >giddily. Barger gave a name to the fledgling phenomenon and set the >tone for a million blogs to come. Robot Wisdom bounced >unapologetically from high culture to low, from silly to serious, >from politics to porn. > >But unlike today's blabby bloggers, Barger steadily honed his >one-paragraph posts into shorter and more compact bursts. By >mid-2000, he'd shrunk Robot Wisdom into a list of links centered on >a minimalist page. His style merged the ethereal brevity of haiku >(another peculiar Usenet subgenre) with the restless topic-hopping >of Joyce: > >Interesting pic from Spielberg's Kubrick's A.I. > >Israeli settler gets wrist-slap for kicking 10yo Palestinian to death > >Mount Fuji webcams jealous of popo's eruptions? > >Variable-star mira's mysterious horn > >My new theory of "information density" > >Fiendishly clever spam pitch > >Five years later, in the San Francisco afternoon, it's hard to >reconcile these energetic and intellectually omnivorous posts with >the anxious, awkward man on the sidewalk. Speaking quietly in >sentences as short as his blog entries, Barger seems ready to >implode. It turns out he has good reasons: Homeless and broke at age >53, he allowed the domain registration for robotwisdom.com to lapse >and can't afford to re-up it. He has abandoned his Chicago apartment >and is staying on Andrew's floor while he tries to get back on his >feet. He's looking for work - sort of. After a few hands-in-pockets >attempts at small talk, we give up. I continue up the hill. > >A few weeks later, I find out that Barger has recovered his domain - >and Robot Wisdom pops back up online. I hunt him down for a pint at >a local pub and he tells me he's moving on, this time to Memphis. He >says he avoids the need for a job by living on less than a dollar a >day. "I was carrying a cardboard sign when we met that day," he >tells me. "I wasn't sure if I should show it to you. I figured if >things didn't work out with Andrew I could pick up some change." On >his panhandler sign, Barger had written: > >Coined the term 'weblog,' never made a dime. > >- Paul Boutin -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 18:27:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: WebLog: Recent Additions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/new.html A Poem for Robin Blaser's 80th Birthday (from Shampoo #24) Some of These Daze: Collaboration with Mimi Gross from Granary Books Now Back in Print: A Poetics (from Harvard University Press) The Yellow Pages ads with Jon Lovits "What's the Word?": MLA Radio Program with Steve McCaffery, Bob Perelman, and Charles Bernstein MP3s: "Ballad of the Girlie Man" (from the Leonard Lopate Show, WNYC) & "The Bricklayer's Arms" Musica Falsa interview on Shadowtime, with Eric Denut http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/new.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:24:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Ruth--- hey, thanks for writing. i like what you say---especially about the "dostoyevsky character" in the poems--the whole question of the often solitary dark character in so many of the poems and how that might seem "at odds" with how so many of us knew him socially.... Once I saw him at a panel discussion in Albany in 1995 and he kept on making fun of the phrase (and stance), "wandered lonely as a cloud" and I always thought that he, more than many poets, really HAD TO remind himself to do that in order to be able to let go and be so PRESENT with people. Also, in my copy of LIFE AND DEATH he simply wrote the phrase "IN THE CITY!" and at first I thought he was quoting something from one of his poems in that book, as many poets do when they sign their books, but it turns out he was just GIDDY to be in NYC. What do I make of all this? Maybe he was able to wrestle so much of the solitary alienated demon out in the act of writing and that allowed him or helped him really appreciate people when he was actually WITH them, and that back-and-forth is surely not unique to Creeley, but I love the particular ways he went about navigating or "negotiating" that--(okay, not very profound this.....Sorry...) the Dostoyevsky reference also brings up a more general point about poetry---especially poetry that can be both, as you say, "lyric and innovative"----Why is it that people are more inclined to be JUDGEMENTAL when a lyric poet/persona explores some "unsavory" aspects of the "self" than when a novelist or playwright creates "characters"? I have my own theories about that, but I'll save it for later--- For now, I just want to say I appreciate the fact that you (and Mary Jo and others) are less interested in engaging in the kind of (spurious) moral JUDGEMENT I was taking issue with--- I mean, of course, we "SHOULD" be a lot of things we're not, but thankfully that didn't stop Creeley from giving voice to a lot of other things.... C ---------- >From: Ruth Lepson >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? >Date: Sat, Jul 2, 2005, 2:24 PM > > Dear Chris S., > > Read yr creeley thoughts w/ great interest as I am trying to (un)formulate > thoughts abt dear Bob myself. Some friends, knowing he was the central > contemporary poet for me, have asked abt his life with women. I can say that > his generosity was unlimited, and to me as a young poet in Cambridge in the > early '70s, when I asked if I cd talk to him abt poetry once that summer, he > sd, "Come every week." So I did. He let Celia Gilbert and me interview him. > He wrote a blurb for my first book. He came to Boston to read for Oxfam > America readings I was organizing. In recent years he came to my classes at > the NEng Conservatory of Music, even Xeroxing handouts himself. Sure, he > loved to talk and be with people, but that's part of the point. One felt his > kindness and kindliness. > > At the same time, he was a kind of Dostoyevsky character in his poetry. > There was a guy, Robert Creeley, who appeared in his poems. This guy was the > existential person of our time. I read Creeley always thinking of his poems > as current and newly meaningful, because he was asking about and tentatively > coming to statements, filled with feeling, about what it means to be > alive,in our time & in any time.What we all have in common was his subject, > I feel. Denise Levertov and Adrienne Rich were the other essential poets for > me, and I never felt conflict going from Rich to Creeley. Each was vast and > sincere while questioning the notion of sincerity. > > Three times I've gone to visit Bob at Tulip Lane in Mt. Auburn Cemetery and > each time what comes to mind, after the existential shock that he doesn't > exist now, is what he said, "If it isn't fun, don't do it." Is that > gender-laden? I dunno, but it reminds me as well as any guy, once I can get > past what I mist do, to choose. > > I wrote some poems for Bob in the weeks after he died. One of them is a > realization that came for the first time in my life about the importance of > art, which had often seemed flimsy in the face of humanity's suffering. I > was standing outside thinking nothing means anything bec Bob died, people > die, and I thought, Why did people love Bob so much? Because he was a great > poet! He was able to say what most people cannot, and what we long to hear > other people say. One of the few times on this earth when a human being, > lovely to see and hear as he was, went beyond sex. > > Bob was called a lyric poet and an innovative poet. Impossibly, he managed > both. > > > On 7/2/05 6:00 PM, "Chris Stroffolino" wrote: > >> OKAY, I did it---finally testing the waters and succumbing to the >> BLOGOSPHERE >> >> Just up---first two posts. >> >> 1. Oakland "My" Oakland---some loose tentative thoughts about the WAYANS >> BROTHERS hope to build a movie studio in Oakland, the local RAGazine THE >> BOOTY CRACK, the CULTURAL SEGREGRATION of blacks and whites in Oaktown >> against a backdrop of gentrification, etc. >> >> 2. (of potentially more interest here) Was Robert Creeley "stupid about >> gender"? Some thoughts, and a defense, not just of Creeley's love poetry and >> prose, but of the kind of thinking he did, and a plea that such >> thinking/feeling may still be relevant today....(warning: a little "over the >> top" this may be, written very shortly after his death, while very shaken >> up).... >> >> Oh yeah, here's the link--- >> >> http://blog.myspace.com/continuouspeasant >> >> comments always appreciated ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:34:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Way Away MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You are there, =20 I.....no. =20 Now hear, =20 Here is Not Our hour, There Dear.. =20 But to know Not where? =20 Wears. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:49:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathleen Ossip Subject: Stammers and Ossip read 7/9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John Stammers will read with Kathleen Ossip on Saturday July 9 at 2 p.m. at the Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery (Bleecker-Houston) New York, NY 10012 212-614-0505 212-614-1224 This is a rare New York reading by a British poet of whom the London Times=20 says =E2=80=9CBeneath the sharp social satire lurks a psychological insight,= a sensitivity to a profound cultural inheritance=E2=80=A6Stammers' art amplifi= es the=20 ordinary and finds the feeling that lies behind facts=E2=80=9D and August Kl= einzahler=20 says =E2=80=9CStammers manages to write some of the most memorable love poet= ry of his=20 generation.=E2=80=9D BIOS: John Stammers' second collection Stolen Love Behaviour (Picador, 2005) is Poetry Book Society Choice for Spring 2005 and is shortlisted for the TS Eliot Prize 2005. His first collection Panoramic Lounge-bar (Picador,= =20 2001) won the Forward Prize for Best First Collection 2001. He teaches=20 creative writing at the University of London's Birkbeck College. He lives in= London=20 where he was born. Kathleen Ossip is the author of The Search Engine, which was selected by=20 Derek Walcott for the APR/Honickman First Book Prize. Her poems have appeare= d in=20 numerous anthologies and journals, including The Best American Poetry, Paris= =20 Review, Kenyon Review, American Poetry Review, the Washington Post, Fence, a= nd=20 Poetry Review (London). She teaches poetry workshops at The New School=20 University, where she serves as Editor at Large for LIT. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 20:51:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: New Titles from Atelos In-Reply-To: <80.2adf8363.2ff9fdae@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Atelos is pleased to announce three new(ish) books: The Up and Up by Ted Greenwald Noh Business by Murray Edmond Open Clothes by Steve Benson. info: www.atelos.org thanks, travis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 03:52:38 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Macho... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mucho.. Thinkin' about Creeley & gender got me to thinkin' that pretty much the whole 'a-garde' agenda... could there be any body more Macho than Gertrude Stein.. could there be a movement more "cutting edge" than lang go po... rimbaud cage breton burroughs... a prick in the hand is worth more than a bush in the bush... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 04:31:25 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Yo bro Web... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'Israeli settler gets.. 10yo to death' quite remarkable how the 'sick' left has institutionalized anti-semitism.. now it's just back ground noise... tenured acadamics slobberin' over ill homeless folk ain't a pretty site... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:33:51 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: LADKIN Subject: American Poetry in the Edinburgh Review and Adjunct Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Dear all, Sorry to bother you all again so soon. I've now set up a paypal account=20= to accept payment in dollars for Peter Manson's 'Adjunct' and for the=20 American Poetry issue of the Edinburgh Review. IMPORTANT: the email address for the account is payladkin@gmail.com rather than ladkin@gmail.com, though I advise you to also email me on=20 that address to make sure I know payment has gone in and that I still=20 have copies - be quick, we're selling at a fair rate. I'll try and=20 write again to those who have already ordered it but it should be up=20 and working (though it may take a few days to become active - I'm not=20 quite sure, it suggests it is working already). I've never used this=20 before so you'll have to forgive my ignorance. I can't quite believe=20 you email me money but you're very welcome to. I guess you also have to=20= get a paypal account but it only takes a minute and doesn't cost=20 anything to do. Prices to the states $10 each plus $7 p&p [airmail] $15 for the two plus $10 p&p [airmail] [sorry the p&p is so high. i promise that at those rates there is=20 absolutely no margin of profit on the books]. Or available by sending a cheque in sterling to Sam Ladkin, 72 Sedgwick=20= Street, Cambridge, CB1 3AL, UK. [=A35.99 each or both for =A310]. Please email ladkin@gmail.com to check I still have copies available.=20 For bulk buys for book shops or for promotional information contact Edinburgh Review either by snail mail at 22a Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh, EH8 9LN or by email at edinburghreview@mail.com. ADJUNCT: AN UNDIGEST by PETER MANSON & =91the darkness surrounds us=92: AMERICAN POETRY [issue 114] edited by ROBIN PURVES AND SAM LADKIN. OUT NOW published by Edinburgh Review =91the darkness surrounds us=92: AMERICAN POETRY edited by Robin Purves and Sam Ladkin Contains... Stephen Thomson - Craft: Boats and Making in Olson=92s Maximus Poems Oliver Harris - =91Burroughs is a poet too, really=92: the Poetics of=20 Minutes to Go Malcolm Phillips - Frank O=92Hara Today Allen Fisher - THE DARKNESS SURROUNDS US: metonyms exemplified by four=20= American poets before and up to 1960 (John Ashbery, Robert Creeley,=20 Frank O'Hara and Gilbert Sorrentino). Sam Ladkin - =91as they wander estranged=92: Ed Dorn=92s Gunslinger John Wilkinson - A Tour of the State Capitol: Introducing the poems of=20= John Wieners Chris Goode - =91These facts are variously modified=92: American writers = in=20 an information economy [on Harry Mathews, Charles Bernstein, Harmony=20 Korine and Rene Ricard] Lee Spinks - Beginning from Limit: The Poetics of Being in the Poetry=20 of Mark Doty Robin Purves - American Change: A Note on Andrea Brady and the Language=20= of Consumption Keston Sutherland - For Carol Mirakove And poetry by ANDREA BRADY, CLARK COOLIDGE, HEATHER FULLER, WILLIAM=20 FULLER, RACHEL LODEN, BEN MARCUS, HARRY MATHEWS, CAROL MIRAKOVE and=20 JENNIFER MOXLEY. cover art by Tom Raworth ADJUNCT: AN UNDIGEST by PETER MANSON Seven years in accretion, Adjunct: an Undigest is a linguistic=20 autobiography, a compost of found and appropriated language stirred by=20= a random number table, a source-book of the contemporary avant-garde,=20 an extended fart joke, an apology, a book of the dead. Peter Manson=92s Adjunct truncates pens=92 jam nod cops unmanned-jet's art (words)(in)(there)(shell)(like) a bible for half-time =97 Tom Raworth Prose is dead. Be this instead. Imagine what you could do with how=20 unique it is. =97 Keston Sutherland By turns introspective and aggressive, controlled and entropic,=20 disquietingly elegiac and laugh-out-loud funny, Peter Manson=92s Adjunct=20= is one of the most exciting books I have read in years. In this one=20 work, Manson manages to triangulate the three most important tendencies=20= in recent writing: the =93new sentence=94 developed in Language Poetry, = the=20 appropriated texts of conceptual writing, and the chance procedures of=20= John Cage and Jackson Mac Low. =93Does the piece feel whole?=94 =93Is = this an=20 Undigest?=94 =93Is this ok?=94 =93What can I do?=94 =93Answer?=94 Yes, = and yes, and=20 yes: read. =97 Craig Dworkin I read the news today, oh boy. Peter Manson's mountainous heap of=20 linguistic detritus perfectly describes the universal overdrive mind of=20= the information age. Adjunct=92s sublime smallness deliciously describes=20= a day in the life. =97 Kenneth Goldsmith Enucleated m=92efflulgent, quick-on-its feet, fractal Self-Portrait=20 in-performance, spinning the language-mass-mess (Spoke-zone Voco=20 Eyesteak junk-shop hearages / Database Detritus Regurge / Flip Floss=20 Enviro- findings / Raw Ambient Verbiages / Dislo annotations) to a=20 Buzz-saw Burst-out work of Poly-engage(gorge)ment that emphatically=20 implements and navigates the dendritic contagions and iterations of its=20= immense, sustaining procedural and processual collaging of sourcings in=20= a viscerally, insistent sound/(re)sounding languaging project that=20 ramifies, throbs and agitates its mutilating humour, its unrelenting=20 passionate material constructuringness. =97 Maggie O=92Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:40:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Lorenzo Thomas, a radiant voice of, and for, the poetry of the Americas, died this morning, on the Fourth of July. His life and work is something to celebrate today. August 31, 1944 (Republic of Panama) -- July 4, 2005 (Houston) ..... It was in those days musicians started dancing Didn't have to touch their instruments. In fact, they couldn't even stop the music playing It was so much sadness in the world --- from "Back Ordered Tears" from _Dancing on Main Street_ (2004) More on Lorenzo Thomas at his new EPC author page -- http://writing.upenn.edu/pepc/authors/thomas/ Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 12:48:24 -0400 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the note, Charles. Although not as well known as Creeley, I hope readers unfamiliar with Lorenzo's impact on the development of contemporary poetry, as opposed to "simply" a founder of the Black Arts Movement, will begin to (re) read him. -----Original Message----- From: Charles Bernstein Sent: Jul 4, 2005 11:40 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) Lorenzo Thomas, a radiant voice of, and for, the poetry of the Americas, died this morning, on the Fourth of July. His life and work is something to celebrate today. August 31, 1944 (Republic of Panama) -- July 4, 2005 (Houston) ..... It was in those days musicians started dancing Didn't have to touch their instruments. In fact, they couldn't even stop the music playing It was so much sadness in the world --- from "Back Ordered Tears" from _Dancing on Main Street_ (2004) More on Lorenzo Thomas at his new EPC author page -- http://writing.upenn.edu/pepc/authors/thomas/ Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:20:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) Comments: To: tyrone williams Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Oh, this is sad! He was only 60, and such a wide range of work, much of it still very hard to find. I hope someone puts out a big collected/ or at least a more comprehensive selected soon. Maybe the poetics list policy of not posting poems to this list could be WAIVED since many people don't know his work that well? C ---------- >From: tyrone williams >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) >Date: Mon, Jul 4, 2005, 8:48 AM > > Thanks for the note, Charles. Although not as well known as Creeley, I hope > readers unfamiliar with Lorenzo's impact on the development of contemporary > poetry, as opposed to "simply" a founder of the Black Arts Movement, will > begin to (re) read him. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Bernstein > Sent: Jul 4, 2005 11:40 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) > > Lorenzo Thomas, a radiant voice of, and for, the poetry of the > Americas, died this morning, on the Fourth of July. His life and work > is something to celebrate today. > > August 31, 1944 (Republic of Panama) -- July 4, 2005 (Houston) > > ..... > It was in those days musicians started dancing > Didn't have to touch their instruments. > In fact, they couldn't even stop the music playing > It was so much sadness in the world > --- from "Back Ordered Tears" from _Dancing on Main Street_ (2004) > > > More on Lorenzo Thomas at his new EPC author page -- > http://writing.upenn.edu/pepc/authors/thomas/ > > > Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 13:03:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I just saw this message as I was heading out the door -- I am bereft -- Lorenzo was among the finest people I have ever known and worked with -- a beautiful poet and a generous friend. On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 10:20:43 +0000, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > Oh, this is sad! He was only 60, and such a wide range of work, much of it > still very hard to find. I hope someone puts out a big collected/ or at > least a more comprehensive selected soon. Maybe the poetics list policy > of not posting poems to this list could be WAIVED since many people don't > know his work that well? > > C > > ---------- > >From: tyrone williams > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) > >Date: Mon, Jul 4, 2005, 8:48 AM > > > > > Thanks for the note, Charles. Although not as well known as Creeley, I hope > > readers unfamiliar with Lorenzo's impact on the development of contemporary > > poetry, as opposed to "simply" a founder of the Black Arts Movement, will > > begin to (re) read him. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Charles Bernstein > > Sent: Jul 4, 2005 11:40 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) > > > > Lorenzo Thomas, a radiant voice of, and for, the poetry of the > > Americas, died this morning, on the Fourth of July. His life and work > > is something to celebrate today. > > > > August 31, 1944 (Republic of Panama) -- July 4, 2005 (Houston) > > > > ..... > > It was in those days musicians started dancing > > Didn't have to touch their instruments. > > In fact, they couldn't even stop the music playing > > It was so much sadness in the world > > --- from "Back Ordered Tears" from _Dancing on Main Street_ (2004) > > > > > > More on Lorenzo Thomas at his new EPC author page -- > > http://writing.upenn.edu/pepc/authors/thomas/ > > > > > > Charles Bernstein > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 14:17:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Evans Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Just to join my voice to the others lamenting Lorenzo Thomas's death and praising his life. Brilliant, humane, hilarious, his work, like the way he lived his life in poetry, always made me think: yes, that's how you do it. Another irreplaceable force for good, gone. Sadly, Steve p.s. Here are the closing sentences of Alice Notley's appreciation of Thomas's work, included in COMING AFTER (U of Michigan, 2005): "Lorenzo Thomas's poetry often exemplifies a natural reaction to an unnatural stress. But it's not just reaction; Thomas's poetry insists on the primacy of making poetry as a natural activity. One may be protesting but one is simultaneously making something, as a way of being in a life that continuously asserts its temporality. One has to be in that life, not merely protest it, or deliver a message as if the point-blank urgency of the message can fill up all of time. This is an obvious thing to say, but how much of poetry shows that its making is as important as its message, that it amused the writer to write it, and to that extent amuses the reader because both writer and reader are alive with real hours to fill? A poem may not change the world right away, but it will _be_, and thus change, the time of those who read or perform it for as long as the performance lasts" (106-07). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 14:46:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is with great sorrow that I learn of the death of Lorenzo Thomas. Lorenzo was a student of mine in a poetry workshop at Queens College of the City University of New York. It was a privilige to have Lorenzo as a student. I mourn his loss. -- Harriet Zinnes ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 14:25:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) In-Reply-To: <200507041703.NAA18971@webmail4.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" ahhh...the card i wrote to him is still sitting, stamped, on the kitchen table...telling him what pleasure his work has brought me over the years, and what an honor it was to participate in a recent ASA panel on his work...now he won't get it...not that that's the saddest thing about his parting...but i am so thankful i got to know his work in time to praise it to his face...it doesn't always happen that way...another brother gone, what a loss. and he was just starting to publish like a maniac again... At 1:03 PM -0400 7/4/05, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >I just saw this message as I was heading out the door -- I am bereft >-- Lorenzo >was among the finest people I have ever known and worked with -- a beautiful >poet and a generous friend. > >On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 10:20:43 +0000, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > >> Oh, this is sad! He was only 60, and such a wide range of work, much of it >> still very hard to find. I hope someone puts out a big collected/ or at >> least a more comprehensive selected soon. Maybe the poetics list policy >> of not posting poems to this list could be WAIVED since many people don't >> know his work that well? >> >> C >> >> ---------- >> >From: tyrone williams >> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) >> >Date: Mon, Jul 4, 2005, 8:48 AM >> > >> >> > Thanks for the note, Charles. Although not as well known as >>Creeley, I hope >> > readers unfamiliar with Lorenzo's impact on the development of >>contemporary >> > poetry, as opposed to "simply" a founder of the Black Arts Movement, will >> > begin to (re) read him. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Charles Bernstein >> > Sent: Jul 4, 2005 11:40 AM >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Subject: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) >> > >> > Lorenzo Thomas, a radiant voice of, and for, the poetry of the >> > Americas, died this morning, on the Fourth of July. His life and work >> > is something to celebrate today. >> > >> > August 31, 1944 (Republic of Panama) -- July 4, 2005 (Houston) >> > >> > ..... >> > It was in those days musicians started dancing >> > Didn't have to touch their instruments. >> > In fact, they couldn't even stop the music playing >> > It was so much sadness in the world >> > --- from "Back Ordered Tears" from _Dancing on Main Street_ (2004) >> > >> > >> > More on Lorenzo Thomas at his new EPC author page -- >> > http://writing.upenn.edu/pepc/authors/thomas/ >> > >> > >> > Charles Bernstein >> >> > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 14:36:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Henry A. Lazer" Subject: Lorenzo Thomas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I join others in mourning the passing of Lorenzo Thomas. One of the=20 finest people I have known. His critical history, Extraordinary=20 Measures, is, well, extraordinary =E2=80=93 written with the grace, humor,= =20 intelligence, and thorough knowledge so typical of Lorenzo. I too hope=20 that more of his poetry becomes readily available. Until the recently=20 issued Dancing on Main Street (Coffee House), it was hard to get your=20 hands on Lorenzo=E2=80=99s poetry. Blue Wind Press has reissued an expande= d=20 second edition (2003) of Chances Are Few. =20 I had the pleasure of introducing Lorenzo (along with Kathleen Fraser)=20 for a reading a few years back at MLA. A great joy always to hear=20 Lorenzo=E2=80=99s rambling asides and his fine, pleasurably delayed, laught= er. =20 I can hear it in this poem, =E2=80=9CDangerous Doubts,=E2=80=9D from Dancin= g on Main=20 Street: The mind invents its own inadequacies But not the power to erase illusion That schemes and wholesome dreams Can become actual despite the truth That thoughts invest themselves in flesh And direct motion That you have 30,000 shots at immortality But only one you dare not miss at being rich Or at the least escape the nag of destitution That maybe exercise shows on TV Are really harmful That sound bodies just Amplify our empty minds That platitudes contain a grant of wisdom And fortune=E2=80=99s a rush hour train that doesn=E2=80=99t wait To really live means needing other people That whatever that means love Could conquer hate ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 13:48:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050704110750.04d36c70@writing.upenn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks for the bad and expected news, Charles. I remember that the first time or second time I saw a poem of his it was in a little magazine that spelled his name Toumes. On 4-Jul-05, at 8:40 AM, Charles Bernstein wrote: > Lorenzo Thomas, a radiant voice of, and for, the poetry of the > Americas, died this morning, on the Fourth of July. His life and work > is something to celebrate today. > > August 31, 1944 (Republic of Panama) -- July 4, 2005 (Houston) > > ..... > It was in those days musicians started dancing > Didn't have to touch their instruments. > In fact, they couldn't even stop the music playing > It was so much sadness in the world > --- from "Back Ordered Tears" from _Dancing on Main Street_ > (2004) > > > More on Lorenzo Thomas at his new EPC author page -- > http://writing.upenn.edu/pepc/authors/thomas/ > > > Charles Bernstein > > Oliver Lake was right. Yrs, George B. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 17:18:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anslem Berrigan Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 "....all of us can say what we are thinking or what we are feeling at a given moment. The reason one would try to phrase it into a formal statement is that one wants to say something on more than one level...." That's from an interview (a really great interview) with Lorenzo Thomas in the spring 1999 issue of Callaloo. For any number of reasons, and it is a thing pulled from a much wider context than is even literally suggested, it's been a guiding point of thought for me since I read it. The most basic thing being the most important in that instance, I think, which has stretched out into some years. On the one hand we keep losing these extraordinary people, and I hate it, but I feel blessed to have had a chance to spend a little time talking with Lorenzo and a lot of time, continuing, with his work. "....Art I think of as the practice of a skill, and that is what the word means anyway. Artifice is what we're talking about: useful human arts. So the first idea about art is that there is a particular skill that is learned and carefully practiced. Therefore, it is historical and localized to some extent. You learn it from somebody; you learn a particular manner of doing something; and then in your career you work to perfecting that and being able to hand on the skill to others that you meet along the way. You ask people, "How do you do this?" And you tell them, "This is the wayI do it: This is something that I found out along the way," to make it more effective or more brilliant, or easier, or whatever. So at that point, what is universal is the effectiveness of the art, right? If it's an art that is supposed to affect our emotions, then the question is, does it move you, does this touch your heart, does this make you feel something about other human beings, does it make you understand hatred and love and disappointment more clearly than you have in your own muddled reflections upon your own life? (laughter) If it does that, then this is an effective art. An effective performance. An effective form...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 17:45:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas (1944-2005) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "If you keep doing the time step long enough, people applaud!" --Donald O'Connor That's the epigraph to Lorenzo's 2004 chapbook TIME STEP -- here's the first poem Downtown Boom There are no gospel singers Anymore On the corners They held down for Jesus Valets park cars At restaurants for fancy people On expense accts or dates So many times People come up to me And say, Billy Hey wait a minute You not Billy! You can see the new ballpark Just past the courthouse But which way is redemption? __________________________________________________ a damned good question today -- wish he were here to talk it over with -- Anna and I used to meet up with Lorenzo in Boulder, CO and have dinner before watching fire works from the lawn of Naropa -- We'll be looking up at the sky with him beside us again tonight. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 19:20:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Fw: [aim] ACTION ALERT * UNITED FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE: Sept 24-26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ACTION ALERT * UNITED FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE=20 http://www.unitedforpeace.org | 212-868-5545 To subscribe, visit http://www.unitedforpeace.org/email -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE SEPT. 24-26 ANTI-WAR MOBILIZATION IN = WASHINGTON, D.C.! Leaflets and website banners now available online Distribute and repost widely! -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- People from all around the United States are already making plans to = join United for Peace and Justice for three major days of action against = the war in Washington, D.C., from September 24-26.=20 For this mobilization to be truly massive and reflective of the solid = anti-war majority in the country, we need to begin spreading the word = now -- in every community, large and small; at summer festivals, = concerts, and gatherings; on progressive and activist listservs; and = throughout the blogosphere. The political momentum in Congress is = finally beginning to turn against the Iraq war -- we need to converge in = Washington in vast numbers this September to build on this momentum and = hold Bush and Congress accountable for the death and destruction.=20 United for Peace and Justice has created several new resources to help = you do exactly that. Visit the Fall 2005 Mobilization section of our = website today, where you will find English- and Spanish-language = leaflets, including a version that can be easily modified for local use, = plus an assortment of website banners and buttons for posting on = websites, blogs, and Indymedia sites.=20 Whether you belong to an anti-war group or are an individual outraged by = the Bush disaster in Iraq, there's much you can do to help publicize the = fall mobilization. Download our leaflets, photocopy them, and post them = in prominent locations in your city or town. Pass them out at the next = public event you attend. Post our website banners on your website or = blog, and distribute information about the fall mobilization by email.=20 You can also help build the fall anti-war mobilization by making an = urgently needed donation to United for Peace and Justice -- either a = one-time gift or a regular pledge through our new sustainer program.=20 And begin making your travel plans for September now! Join us for the = massive march of Saturday, September 24, or stay through the weekend. = There will be an Interfaith Service against the war on Sunday, September = 25, as well as an array of grassroots trainings. On Monday, September = 26, we're organizing a massive grassroots Lobby Day and a mass = nonviolent civil disobedience action. United for Peace and Justice welcomes any group that shares our goals = and wishes to organize a contingent or feeder march in our massive march = on Saturday, September 24. There will also be a whole host of other = anti-war activities to participate in throughout the weekend. Visit = http://www.unitedforpeace.org/fallmobe regularly for updates and more = details. Together we can end this immoral and illegal war! See you in September! -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- ACTION ALERT * UNITED FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE=20 http://www.unitedforpeace.org | 212-868-5545 To subscribe, visit http://www.unitedforpeace.org/email -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- =20 a..=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:27:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Delettering the public space Comments: To: Writing and Theory across Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed (I propose we do this across the US for one year...) DELETE! Delettering the public space An installation by Christoph Steinbrener & Rainer Dempf Summer 2005, Neubaugasse, a Viennese shopping street =96 For a period of=20= two weeks all advertising signs, slogans, pictograms, company names and=20= logos will be covered in monochrome. Something you might have seen=20 before in the form of two-dimensional representations or photomontage=20 is going to be translated for the first time into three-dimensionality,=20= into the here and now reality of Vienna=92s Neubaugasse, by Christoph=20 Steinbrener und Rainer Dempf. =93Delete=94 will entail a very likely unique cooperation of all = resident=20 shopkeepers with a spectacular art project, a cooperation that has=20 been made possible by the shopping street management unit of the Vienna=20= Economic Chamber. For a period of two weeks, the entrepreneurs will=20 renounce their identities to become part of a large-scale=20 installation. 6 =96 20 June 2005, Neubaugasse, 1070 Vienna http://www.steinbrener-dempf.com/delete.php?cat=3Denglish= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 21:34:22 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: robert lane Subject: Winter issue of Malleable Jangle now online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Winter issue of Malleable Jangle AKA "The Orange Roses Edition" is now online. New poetry from Michael J Barney, Michael Estabrook, Jan Oskar Hansen, Richard Hillman, Peter Macrow, Sheila E Murphy, and Gregory Vincent St. Thomas. http://www.malleablejangle.netfirms.com/index.htm Hope to see you there. All the best, Robert Lane. online poetry journal malleablejangle the poetry of Robert Lane deja vu workshops Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 04:34:58 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Brit Po , Wom Po MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Geoffrey Brock: New formalism that should impress any fan of Oulipo Lorenzo Thomas, 1944-2005 July 4th – the 150th anniversary of the first edition of Walt Whitman’s Leaves of Grass Spielberg’s September 11th: War of the Worlds A note on Ralph Stanley & Chet Helms Merrill Gilfillan’s Undanceable: quiet, but terrific, music The line in Alli Warren’s Hounds Julia Mayhew & Geoffrey Brock: the clear light of the mind vs. the grout of education Learning to relax: the growth of a poet’s mind Sgt Pepper Goes to Hell: Jessica Yu’s Henry Darger Sappho’s new work TV & its priorities Steve Benson: the “sitting” as a unit of writing Jimmy Weinstein: entrepreneur of left publications http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:46:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Digest: Lorenzo Thomas In-Reply-To: <200507050001.1dPECp7DK3Nl34m0@mx-casero.atl.sa.earthlink.n et> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I too Maria had a note here stamped to go to the hospice when I heard the news yesterday. I would echo the endorsement of and also of his poems. was an important book for me, and I would urge those unfamiliar with his work to run don't walk to the new edition Blue Wind Press put out a few years ago, and his precise, and yes generous Aldon, introduction. And then on to and last year's . And what a graceful man and spirit he was. In other sad news, the poet Estelle Leontief, the author in 1975 of from Janus Press, died in Manhattan last week at the age of 97 of a sudden illness. A memorial service will take place in New York City in September, according to her daughter Svetlana Alpers. I will keep anyone apprised who'd like to be. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 09:02:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Re: Digest: Lorenzo Thomas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan - yes, Lorenzo's "graceful spirit" stays with me - and I'm glad you posted Estelle Leontief's leaving us - she was a longtime friend of mine, she and Vassily inspired in many ways. Do post the memorial information when time. Every best wish, Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:24:18 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Philip Hobsbaum Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Comments: cc: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, poneme@lists.grouse.net.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am sad to announce that Philip Hobsbaum died last week at the age of seventy three. A poet, critic and teacher, Philip was closely involved with writers in Cambridge, London, Belfast and Glasgow, where he taught from 1966. His experience in Belfast was recorded in the collection of poems, +Coming Out Fighting+, and that of Glasgow in +Women and Animals+. One chapter of his major critical work, +A Theory of Communication+, is a revealing transcript of a session of the London Group in the sixties. While his major impact was as a mentor of poets -- perhaps one of the finest of our time -- his own work shouldn't be forgotten. Robin Hamilton http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/42393.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/01/db0102.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/07/01/ixportal.html http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/42236.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 06:31:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: dbcinema MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dbcinema v0.1: http://vispo.com/temp/Google2.htm by ja, google, world. you. epistemology turing godel giger jenny holzer joseph kosuth . . . . . . this will eventually be the visual engine for a bunch of pieces. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:10:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: TRIBES FUNDRAISER FOR ISSUE 11 AND 12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Art Sale to benefit Tribes, July 9, Saturday from 1-9:00. Tribes, (285 East 3rd Street, bet C and D, 212 674 3778 info@tribes.org web: http://www.tribes.org Come early to find bargains. Have a chance to purchase art by these current participating artists: John Ahearn, Katherine Arnoldi, Katya Gardea B., John Bastante, Rana Bishara, Star Black, Randy Bloom, Ana Busto, Gulsen Calik, Andrew Castrucci, Chloe Cerwinka, Rena Cohen, Thom Corn, steve dalachinsky, Sally Dill, Dora Espinoza, Fly, Eric Ginsberg, Joy Glidden, Samia Halaby, David Hammons, Silvia Huerta, Nikki Johnson, Diane June, Laurie Kent, Anyssa Kim, Richard Kostelanetz, Sally Lelong, Susan Levinsohn, Loudfoot, Hilary Maslon, Algernon Miller, Shalom Neuman, Yuko Otomo, Lina Pallotta, John Ranard, James Romberg, Mireia Sentis, Linda Shere, Barb Slitkin, Ming Murray Smith, Marilyn Sontag, Michael Tong, Chris Twomey, Teressa Valla, Alejandra Villasmil, Tadashi Watanabe, Kathleen White, Susan Yung Evening Performance 5-7:00pm: Ystad Moinuadin Khan on sarangi and Imran Khan on tabla. ( admission charge for the music part of the event $10) -------Katherine Arnoldi and Merry Fortune, Kenya Mitchell, organizers ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:42:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: unDigested: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit J.J.JOHNSON @ the V.V. 7-8-88 1. sweating in this place in place everything so gorgeous Oh & this Music like manna feeds me & i am so fully ginned i can close my eyes & whisper to myself. 2. in the negev there is one dry spot left & here all the shepherds gather to discuss the past. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:17:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: interview with canadian writer lawrence ytzhak braithwaite available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit e-drum is moderated by kalamu ya salaam (kalamu@aol.com). >>INFO: interview with canadian writer lawrence ytzhak braithwaite available ============================================================== ...with respects to dodie bellamy one the great true essayist who attended the prosa acts literary conference in buffalo http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/06/42117.php CFUV interview with Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite pt 1 download in realtime Max Sloan has a conversation author Lawrence ytzhak Braithwaite on witchhunts, gangs, terrorist, gentrifcation, crack and fear culture on Sad and Beautiful World/ fri 16 may 2003 Max Sloan has a conversation author Lawrence ytzhak Braithwaite on witchhunts, gangs, terrorist, gentrifcation, crack and fear culture conducted on fri 16 may 2003 19:55hrs download pt 1 Sad and Beautiful World/Anaphora Friday 8:00pm - 9:00pm Producer(s): Pete Cressey, Max Sloan/Stefan & Casey See also: http://cfuv.uvic.ca Other Downloads: Hurricane Angel "luckily, i was half cat": http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8 and http://bc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/1886/index.php ___ Stay Strong "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" -- Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date ############################################# this is e-drum, a listserv providing information of interests to black writers and diverse supporters worldwide. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:55:51 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1823@telus.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Fiddy-Cent_to_Publish_Street_Lit=27_B?= =?windows-1252?Q?ooks=3B_Rapper_Launches_Imprint_to_Stop_=93?= =?windows-1252?Q?Wanksta=94_Writers?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit here's something from the pages of idiocy and the corporate enslavement of black artists. you have to have gone to jail now to be able to write of your life and the black and poor experience in amerikkka according to 5.0 crony Fiddy no sense. i too would have to agree with Dr. Zora Morrison “I’d like to pump nine bullets into him right now,” she said. Hataz We R Subject: Fiddy-Cent to Publish Street Lit' Books; Rapper Launches Imprint to Stop “Wanksta” Writers July Satire --------------------------------- Fiddy-Cent to Publish Street Lit' Books; Rapper Launches Imprint to Stop “Wanksta” Writers from Plagiarizing Real G's By Trina Truthtella, Correspondent-at-Large (July 5th - New York City) The street literature (street lit) explosion and recent allegations of plagiarism against some of its authors has inspired rapper 50 Cent to enter the publishing game. The rapper reportedly inked a deal with Harper-Collins to helm an imprint called 9 Shots Press. The imprint seeks to take advantage of the massive resurgence of novels about pimps, strippers, kingpins and other underworld characters currently popular with urban youth. Although many hip hop artists have published their bios with major houses, and the debut novel The Coldest Winter Ever by “raptivist” Sista Souljah is credited widely for renewed interest in fiction about street life, the launch of 9 Shots Press marks the first time an artist has ventured into the literary world at the executive level. “The publishing industry’s getting just as shady as the music business, and I’m here to clean it up,” said the drug-dealer-turned-multi-platinum rapper at a press conference at the McDonald’s across the street from the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture. “Just because a nigga’s illiterate doesn’t mean he ain’t got a damned good story to sell. But you got these wankstas out here jacking a real G’s bio, passin’ it off as fiction, and keepin’ all the loot. I’m finna to put an end to that.” The rapper refers to the recent wave of lawsuits accusing novelists in the genre of plagiarism. In the most notable case, Stagg R. Leigh of Albion Correctional Facility in New York claims to be the true author of the novella "My Pafology" which appears in the novel "Erasure" written by Percival Everett. Publisher’s Weekly praised Erasure as “an over-the-top masterpiece about an African-American writer who ‘overcomes’ his intellectual tendency to ‘write white’ and ends up penning a parody of ghetto fiction that becomes a huge commercial and literary success.” The parody written by Everett’s protagonist under the pseudonym Stagg R. Leigh is "My Pafology" and appears halfway through the novel. “Parody my ass. That’s my life story,” said Leigh. “I writ that shit.” If his lawsuit against Everett is successful, 9 Shot Press will move to re-publish "My Pafology" for its inaugural release as a stand-alone title. The author of twelve critically acclaimed books, Everett insists that he penned My "Pafology", and that it’s mere coincidence that his main character’s alter ego and accuser share the same name. “Meanwhile, Erasure didn’t even do that well,” he said from his office at the University of Southern California where he teaches English. “I think it sold one hundred copies at best.” No stranger to prison, 50 Cent vows that 9 Shot Press will only publish novels by authors whose criminal records could be verified “to ferret out poseurs.” When asked if he also intended to edit the manuscripts he acquired, the rapper quickly responded, “Fuck nah! That’s not keepin’ it real. Besides, I don’t know what the fuck you talking about.” After pausing to confer with literary agent Stephan Fetchit, the rapper reconsidered. “Well, maybe we’ll do like the music industry does with CDs. Print a few copies with the curses deleted, you know, for the chirren. ‘Cause the more they read the better'n shit.” “But we’re still keepin’ it gangsta,” he pledges. And that’s precisely what worries some in the African American community. The literary equivalent of gangsta rap, street lit has been attacked by African American leaders within and outside publishing for its gratuitous use of sex and violence, glorification of criminal behavior and perpetuation of stereotypes. Dr. Zora Morrison, the executive director of the Schomburg Center which denied 50 Cent’s request to announce his new venture at the world-renown library said, “[Defenders of street lit] like to say, ‘Hey, at least kids are reading now. They’ll read My Pafology today then read Native Son tomorrow,” said Dr. Morrison who holds a doctorate in African American literature. “Now you try telling a decent parent, ‘Let your twelve-year old watch BET today, and she’ll turn on PBS tomorrow.’ It’s preposterous.” “There was a time in this country when a Black person could be killed for knowing how to read. Not too long ago in order to get a poorly written novel published you had to be white.” he said. “Sometimes Black folks forget their history, and then the hatin’ begins.” On that point, Morrison couldn’t agree more. “I’d like to pump nine bullets into him right now,” she said. Trina Truthtella is a writer based in New York City. Her essay When Cubans Become Vegans appears in the anthology The Unsavvy Traveler: Women’s Comic Tales of Catastrophe published by Seal Press. She can be reached at trinatruthtella@excite.com. Photograph Courtesy of Angry Pizzle http://www.Playahata.com ______________________________________ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:30:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: undigested paradoxes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit catalpa blossoms on the gazebo island baby hawks found dead oh yeah, and don't forget fitzgerald: "So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past." maryjomalo J.J.JOHNSON @ the V.V. 7-8-88 1. sweating in this place in place everything so gorgeous Oh & this Music like manna feeds me & i am so fully ginned i can close my eyes & whisper to myself. 2. in the negev there is one dry spot left & here all the shepherds gather to discuss the past. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:56:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: poetics@BUFFALO.EDU Subject: About the Poetics List Comments: cc: mclaughs@sas.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Poetics List Sponsored by: The Electronic Poetry Center (SUNY-Buffalo/University of Pennsylvania) and the Regan Chair (Department of English) & Center for Program in Contemporary Writing (University of Pennsylvania) Poetics List Editorial Board: Charles Bernstein, Lori Emerson, Joel Kuszai, Nick Piombino. Poetics Subscription Registration (required) poetics@buffalo.edu Poetics Subscription Requests: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html Poetics Listserv Archive: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html C O N T E N T S: 1. About the Poetics List 2. Posting to the List 3. Subscriptions 4. Subscription Options 5. To Unsubscribe 6. Cautions -------------------------------------------- Above the world-weary horizons New obstacles for exchange arise Or unfold, O ye postmasters! 1. About the Poetics List With the preceding epigraph, the Poetics Listserv was founded by Charles Bernstein in late 1993. Now in its fourth incarnation, the list has about 1200 subscribers worldwide. We also have a substantial number of nonsubscribing readers, who access the list through our web site (see archive URL above). The Poetics List is not a forum for a general discussion of poetry or for the exchange of poems. 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Please do not publish list postings without the express permission of the author. Posting on the list is a form of publication. Copyright for all material posted on Poetics remains with the author; material from this list and its archive may not be reproduced without the author's permission, beyond the standard rights accorded by "fair use" of published materials. All material on the Poetics List remains the property of the authors; before you reproduce this material, in whole or in part, we ask that you get permission (by email is fine) from the authors. If they give permission, then we ask only that you say that the post or posts appeared originally on the Poetics List (http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html) on [give date and say:] Used by permission of the author. As an outside maximum, we will accept no more than 2 messages per day from any one subscriber. Also, given that our goal is a manageable list (manageable both for moderators and subscribers), the list accepts 50 or fewer messages per day. Like all systems, the listserv will sometimes be down: if you feel your message has been delayed or lost, *please wait at least one day to see if it shows up*, then check the archive to be sure the message is not posted there; if you still feel there is a problem, you may wish to contact the editors at . ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 17:54:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Part 2 of KPFA Interview with Wanda Phipps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Catch Part Two of my reading and interview this Wednesday, July 6th on Jack Foley's Cover to Cover Show on KPFA Radio That's 3:30-4:00pm Pacific Standard Time 6:30-7:00pm Eastern Standard Time If you're in California: KPFA broadcasts on 94.1 FM and KPFB 89.3 FM, Berkeley, and KFCF 88.1 FM, Fresno If you aren't in California or you're just away from a radio you can get the station live anywhere on your computer check out directions on KPFA's Streaming Audio webpage: http://www.kpfa.org/listen/ -- Wanda Phipps Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems my first full-length book of poetry has just been released by Soft Skull Press available at the Soft Skull site: http://www.softskull.com/detailedbook.php?isbn=1-932360-31-X and on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/193236031X/ref=rm_item and don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://www.mindhoney.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 18:07:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Lorenzo Thomas Obit. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Here's a link to the obituary that appeared in this morning's Houston Chronicle. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3252557 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 18:41:26 -0400 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: Lorenzo Thomas Obit. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Aldon. -----Original Message----- From: ALDON L NIELSEN Sent: Jul 5, 2005 6:07 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Lorenzo Thomas Obit. Here's a link to the obituary that appeared in this morning's Houston Chronicle. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3252557 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 17:59:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Trigilio Organization: http://www.starve.org Subject: Entries needed, Encyclopedia of Beat Literature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is forwarded from Kurt Hemmer, Editor of the forthcoming ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BEAT LITERATURE. Best, Tony > I'm finishing my encyclopedia of Beat literature and I'm still looking for > experts on the following writers willing to write short entries: > > > Harold Norse > David Meltzer > Timothy Leary > John Wieners > > Anyone interested should contact me at khemmer@harpercollege.edu. > > thanks, > > Kurt Hemmer > Associate Professor > Harper College ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 17:57:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Re: About the Poetics List In-Reply-To: <1120596977.42caf3f159202@mail1.buffalo.edu> (poetics@buffalo.edu's message of "Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:56:17 -0400") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As a matter of convenient style I've adopted a tone of conversation with the Editorial Board itself, even though I am aware that they have a stated intention of not responding on list to pieces such as this. I am not expecting a direct, or even indirect response. I do think there are enough inquiries into the nature of poetics proper that it is appropriate for posting to the list. Some (hopefully) constructive feedback: poetics@BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > Poetics List Editorial Board: > Charles Bernstein, Lori Emerson, Joel Kuszai, Nick Piombino. In the interest of being rigorous in my examination, I looked for a definition of "editorial board" and found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editorial_board Which I read closely, and found at least one notable discrepancy. That particular definition, throughout, gives the impression that the board, in addition to its meetings and directional steerage, does some writing of the content. Granted, a listserv is not a newspaper, but I've been subbed to this list for years and I think (with the exception of Nick Piombino) I can count on one hand the number of posts to this list I've seen produced by the board that would qualify as containing editorial content related to what the core mission is stated to be. Which is not a problem, by any means, I just wonder why use the term if the reality doesn't match up when there are other terms more accurate that could be used. Moderators, for example, or administrators are both nearer to the actual functions being performed. > Above the world-weary horizons > New obstacles for exchange arise > Or unfold, > O ye postmasters! Or, with a different reading of "post" (as in post to the list), perhaps postmasters! Sorry, a little levity before embarking on the beefy bits. > 1. About the Poetics List > > With the preceding epigraph, the Poetics Listserv was founded by > Charles Bernstein in late 1993. Now in its fourth incarnation, the > list has about 1200 subscribers worldwide. We also have a substantial > number of nonsubscribing readers, who access the list through our web > site (see archive URL above). > > The Poetics List is not a forum for a general discussion of poetry or > for the exchange of poems. Our aim is to support, inform, and extend > those directions in poetry that are committed to innovations, > renovations, and investigations of form and/or/as content, to the > questioning of received forms and styles, and to the creation of the > otherwise unimagined, untried, unexpected, improbable, and impossible. This document has been edited enough times that it now suffers from a severe case of mutually exclusive contradiction. It can be parsed down to: The Poetics list is not a forum for the exchange of poems. Our aim is to support the questioning of received forms and styles, and to the creation of the otherwise unimagined, untried, unexpected, improbable, and impossible. "received" sticks out like a sore thumb there. How do you receive that which is no longer supposed to be sent? Maybe received doesn't mean what I think it does. Maybe support doesn't mean what I think it does, either. But that's a nitpick, I'm sharp enough to figure out that what's really the intent of the above is for the list to be all about a discussion of Poetry and Poetics, without having to muck around with those darned poems. Cool, I can appreciate that, I really can. But interesting conversations about Poetry and Poetics don't happen until someone starts ranting about having to wipe some messy poem off their shoe, or, wants to know if there's a better way to plant their own Poetics in a half a bag of poems someone left in their apartment. You don't get discussion of Poetry without poems, unless you provide some prompting. Which an editorial board could certainly be providing, but, which an administrative/moderative board does not. It's like putting a bunch of people in a room together and saying, "ok, be interesting together". Everything goes along fine until you decide the place would look better without all the weirdos in the funny hats. After you ask them to leave, or take off their hats, you discover that everyone in the room was talking about the hats. And you might even be surprised by this result, until you remembered you were running the avant garde section of the haberdashery convention. > While we recognize that other lists may sponsor other possibilities > for exchange, we request that those participating in this forum keep > in mind the specialized and focused nature of this project and respect > our decision to operate a moderated list. The Poetics List exists to > support and encourage divergent points of view on innovative forms of > modern and contemporary poetry and poetics, and we are committed to do > what is necessary to preserve this space for such dialog. As long as there's no actual examples of the thing we have gathered here to protect, honor, worship, love, practice, preach, etc. This is like Bush-speak. If the list is going to stay shaped the way it is, truth in advertising to new subscribers dictates that you revise this portion. You can't say you're encouraging and supporting divergent points of view in the very act of discouraging and removing support for a view that is *central* to this whole enterprise. Poems are not peripheral to Poetics. > Due to the high number of subscribers, we no longer maintain the open > format with which the list began (at under 100 subscribers). The > specific form of moderation that we employ is a relatively fluid one: > in most cases, messages are reviewed after having been posted to the > list, and difficulties resolved on that basis; however, the listserv > editorial board may shift between this and a pre-review mode which > calls for all messages to be read and approved before being forwarded > to the list. We prefer to avoid this option as it hampers the > spontaneity of discussion that we hope to promote. In addition to > these options, the editorial board will unsubscribe individuals if > they are not, in our opinion, productively contributing to the list or > following our guidelines. We remain committed to this editorial > function as a defining element of the Poetics List. This also has suffered from many versions. You realize you are now saying that the defining element of the Poetics List is the editorial function of unsubscribing individuals who are noncomformist. There really isn't a whole lot of "otherwise unimagined, untried, unexpected, improbable, and impossible" work being produced by those who conform. > Please note that while this list is primarily concerned with > discussions of poetry and poetics, messages relating to politics and > political activism, film, art, media, and so forth are also welcome. But no poems. This about this for a minute. I can post to the Poetics list messages related to political activism, film, art, media, and EVEN so forth. I can post messages about so forth! So forth is allowed, but poems are not. You can post, you know, whatever, as long as it's even remotely related. Poems, on the other hand, are apparently not even remotely related to Poetics. > We strongly encourage subscribers to post information, including web > links, relating to publications (print and internet), reading series, > and blogs that they have coordinated, edited, published, or in which > they appear. Such announcements constitute a core function of this > list. Brief reviews of poetry events and publications (print or > digital) are always welcome. I'm sorry, you say here that posting of announcements is a core function, but no mention of this is made at the beginning where the mission is stated. Maybe it would be clearer and more to the point if the part about support, inform, and extend went down here, and this part went at the beginning. Since it is a core function and all. I mock, but really what I'm saying is what I've been saying all along, I think this document can no longer withstand piecemeal editing and band aid application. It needs to be rewritten from scratch and needs to be much less expansive in its stated aims if it's restrictions are to stay in place. > We do not accept postings of creative work not directed toward a > discussion of poetics issues on the list. The Poetics List is not a > venue for the posting of free-standing, personal poems or journal > entries. Saying it slower, and louder, doesn't work with the hard of hearing or those who aren't fluent in the language, and it's improper to use the same technique in this context, as well. The reason it's improper is that you're simply restating what you've already said earlier, in no uncertain terms, in a tone that suggests we're stupid for not getting it the first time. We're not stupid, you're sending mixed messages. The reason people keep posting poems to the list despite being swatted on their virtual noses with repeated admonitions is not because they're dense, it's because the stated purpose of the list cannot be assimilated as valid with a prohibition against poems as part of it. It just doesn't make sense to people, so in weighing the contradiction, they go with the one that makes sense. Surely, what they really mean is that they want to support. I mean they said right in the beginning and so magnificently (no joke, it is a very well wrought paragraph--it is, in fact, so well done that we actually believe this is what the list is for). Imagine walking into an auditorium. There is a huge banner over the stage that says: We Support Experimental Poetry then, on the stage, there's a lectern, with a post-it note on the angled surface that says: Not intended for use by poets. Now imagine there's also another post-it note right on the microphone that says: Are you an experimental poet? If so, DON'T USE THIS! What do you think will happen if you let 1200 people interested in the support of experimental poetry mingle around in that auditorium for a while? > Also, please note that the Poetics List is not a "chat" list and we > discourage the posting of very short messages intended for only a few > subscribers. After we told everyone to stop being so conversational, it got really quiet. Huh. I wonder why? My take on all this is that the editorial board doesn't really have the resources or inclination to devote much time and effort to an active involvement with the list. Which I can totally relate to, and respect. It can take a huge amount of effort to moderate a group with the potential for stirring stuff up that 1200 people with an interest in Experimental Poetry has. No doubt. But if we go back to the concept of "editorial board" for a final analogy, this current direction is like the editorial board of a newspaper saying, "this job would be great if it wasn't for all the stories people keep sending in" and the next one says, "and don't forget the subscribers, boy I could really get some work done if it wasn't for them" and the third one says, "hey, if we get rid of the subscribers, those darned advertisers will go away, too, now that's an elegant solution!" I would like to see one of two things happen: 1) Rewrite this unwelcoming welcome message to more accurately reflect the reality of the dynamic the current board seeks. Because right now it's a so riddled with contradiction it's silly. OR 2) Change the current board to a group more interested in being active participants instead of after-the-fact legislators, back-channel reprimanders, or figureheads, and then invite poems back in. I have no intention of unsubscribing, like a few who have tiraded before me, the signal-to-noise ratio of the posts suits me just fine as it is, for now. I like the discussions that do happen, and I like the calls for submissions, and I sometimes have the time to fire up a browser and follow a link or two. But I don't think there's been more high quality critical discussion of poetics since poems were made to feel unwelcome. I think there's been less. And I think that's a trend that will continue if poems remain peripheral to Poetry. It's hard to call a Poetics list alive when there are more posts about the deaths of poets than about the births of new poetry. Regards, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:33:52 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Marcacci Subject: Re: About the Poetics List In-Reply-To: <86d5pwdiga.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit zzzZZZzzz sometimes fell asleep reading obit nitty grit & all t'other shhh- tuff somma my posts was not so unlike poetry tho there they was they were all poeticsish who knows *shrugs* no shirt no shoe no dice > From: Dan Waber > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 17:57:41 -0400 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: About the Poetics List > > It's hard to call a Poetics list alive > when there are more posts about the deaths of poets than about the > births of new poetry. > > Regards, > Dan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 20:06:53 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Mazer Subject: Re: Entries needed, Encyclopedia of Beat Literature Comments: cc: khemmer@harpercollege.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Professor Hemmer, Would you care to have an entry for Landis Everson, long forgotten member of the Berkeley and San Francisco Renaissances and the Spicer-Duncan-Blaser circle from the 40s through the 60s, recently rediscovered by myself (see features in Fulcrum #3, Jacket #26, and the forthcoming Fulcrum #4). Mr. Everson has been making a sensation with his new poetry (Poetry, New Republic, Harvard Review, American Poetry Review, Washington Square, etc) as well as his old, and recently gave his first poetry reading in over forty years (at the KGB Bar in NYC). A painting of his was recently displayed in the Poetry and Its Arts exhibition celebrating the 50th anniversary of the San Francisco Poetry Center, and the SFPC have located in their archives a recording of Mr. Everson reading his poetry there in 1956. While Mr. Everson was not a "beat", he was a contemporary who was on the scene, and his Berkeley-San Francisco group have been considered by many to have been both precursors and associates of the Beats. I could write you a fine note for him. Sincerely, Ben Mazer Boston University Editorial Institute In a message dated 7/5/2005 7:00:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tony@STARVE.ORG writes: > This is forwarded from Kurt Hemmer, Editor of the forthcoming > ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BEAT LITERATURE. > > Best, > Tony > > > I'm finishing my encyclopedia of Beat literature and I'm still looking for > > experts on the following writers willing to write short entries: > > > > > > Harold Norse > > David Meltzer > > Timothy Leary > > John Wieners > > > > Anyone interested should contact me at khemmer@harpercollege.edu. > > > > thanks, > > > > Kurt Hemmer > > Associate Professor > > Harper College ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 20:11:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Mazer Subject: please ignore my last email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please ignore that last email from me (the one to prof. Hemmer about Landis Everson and the Beat Encyclopedia). I accidently copied it to this address. Sorry. BM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 02:58:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bircumshaw Subject: Re: Philip Hobsbaum Comments: To: poneme@lists.grouse.net.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whenever I encounter news like this it is as though a hole in the world has appeared. A presence that one always expected to be there is no more. It is as if something has stolen one's shadow. Btw Rob apparently the Y Theatre asks for no more than 30 quid for the night, life, let us live it while we're here. Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hamilton" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 6:24 AM Subject: Philip Hobsbaum > I am sad to announce that Philip Hobsbaum died last week at the age of > seventy three. > > A poet, critic and teacher, Philip was closely involved with writers in > Cambridge, London, Belfast and Glasgow, where he taught from 1966. > > His experience in Belfast was recorded in the collection of poems, +Coming > Out Fighting+, and that of Glasgow in +Women and Animals+. One chapter of > his major critical work, +A Theory of Communication+, is a revealing > transcript of a session of the London Group in the sixties. > > While his major impact was as a mentor of poets -- perhaps one of the finest > of our time -- his own work shouldn't be forgotten. > > Robin Hamilton > > http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/42393.html > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/01/db0102.xml&s Sheet=/portal/2005/07/01/ixportal.html > > http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/42236.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 22:14:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: VEIL on Sale for $2.99 Comments: To: Writing and Theory across Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed VEIL by Charles Bernstein 1987, 8.5x11, 12 pgs, $4 ". . . crying on they came in swoops like wild animals theres was no one . . ." Xexoxial Editions chooses now to announce that Charles Bernstein's VEIL is back in stock in its second (limited) handmade edition. A collection of 10 typed fields of solid language, VEIL is available during the month of July for $2.99 (postpaid). After July the price will revert to $4. Free catalog with order. more information - http://xexoxial.org/books/veil.html free PDF version - http://xexoxial.org/pdf/veil.pdf (3.3 MB) send cash check or money order to: XEXOXIAL EDITIONS Dreamtime Village 10375 Cty Hway A La Farge WI 54639 USA _____ Craig Dworkin on Veil: "Almost all of Veil can be deciphered, if only bit by bit, so that Bernstein's palimpsests do not so much prevent reading as redirect and discipline usual reading habits." from Reading the Illegible (Northwestern University Press, 2003) Also available from Xexoxial Editions: GUESS LANGUAGE by Charles Bernstein and Lyn Hejinian Charles reads his "Ambliopia" and Lyn reads her "Redo" 1986, CDr, $5 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 01:40:39 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Obits... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i was grateful for the links to the works of both Phillip Hosbaum & Lorenzo Thomas both for the questions their works raised & those left unanswered in the context of the defined mission of this list to highlight the experimental i couldn't help but noticing that submerged groups jews & afro-g(a)ys (i assume) are often the strongest advocates of the trad. culture it is many a year since i've heard F.R. Leavis name after the epithet "hero" both their careers followed the normal ladder of such things.. devotion hard work(d) succor academic success pub aid certainly devoted lives & yet.... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 01:43:00 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Errata... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry to get his name wrong Hobsbaum hard for street yids to get our tonques around it (mea culpa) ' for this & everything else.. harry. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 23:08:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: mj on holiday in Bahrain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit some of you might not remember that little deadly our it's the"black holocaust" it's simply was a rule what when boss charged a male then a trial wasn't necessary You know the deal it's like clockin colonists on monday they nagas were basically guilty all the rest just got in the way and so society had the right to drag them out, hang them, slowly, cut bits of flesh off them cuz it was so groovey burn them and finally let them die or what we call marytr. btw, my sis and bruthas this practice still exists in the amerikkkanada, is growing with a massive flava a selectah might call it MURDAH be it by geebah or lynching via media or the actual hanging of a black brutha from a tree in peace (s) to bernard Cee this subject can become a burden like dealing with terrorism by the aryan nation and to the homer they hit in howard beach recently on the real, son? that's keepin the game amerikkkan Kinda like what they did to anthany dawson So let's not drag this out like james byrd's trip or hit a lick with an 80's head trick who's hands were bond like anthany griffith who showed that he could kick it in the back of jake shop what got his wig popped so may i ask this come cypher to the drivers and give witness cuz i hear, that on the real, mj got acquitted what's the death toll in iraq today? how many palestinians are bloody are our masjids still standing in jerusalem? in afrika how many people died of starvation? is sudan still butchering nonarabs who are muslims? as i understand are the brutha still targeting bruthas in foreign lands? do we still got bruhs and sis in prisons are we still doing extradinary rendition? how many bruhs and sis have been attacked or lost jobs? how of kids got a bad grade and feel they been robbed? how many feel that their country got jacked by a killah how many have been harassed for not buying the lies of amerikkka so may i ask this come cypher to the drivers and give witness cuz i hear,that on the real, mj got acquitted how many dudes in cali got beat down for being an ese how many sis got harassed today for wearing hijab? how many bruhs feel mad pain for thinkin they couldn't defend allah and how many muminat have been raped for sake of "liberation", gaw forced today, this hour? and every minute? how many stars born of this occupational passtime have been rejected who recited the "la ilaha ilallah" whisperd the shahada in place of the missing fathers? and how many of our children don't even know about puddin and how many, cousin, were jammed or died today who are called iraqi? how many starved the same way in amerikkka slowly b.u.t. i wanna know, seriously, how many occupants of neoafrika ain't even feelin me? so may i ask this come cypher to the drivers and give witness cuz i hear,on the real, mj got acquitted i know all these questions aren't as important as michael on holiday so peace fam can i ask you in all due respects yo what's weight point to the price drop of that ticket when nobody can tell me what's todays mathematics? 1426 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC http://ottawa.indymedia.ca/en/2005/05/951.shtml http://bc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/1886/index.php http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8 and ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 23:43:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: About the Poetics List In-Reply-To: <86d5pwdiga.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As someone relatively new to the list, I can say without reservation that I do not want my e-mail inundated with endless streams of bad poetry. Published poems can be referenced, links cut and pasted, in the course of a discussion of specific poems. I, personally, however, would be in favor of allowing the citation of published poems in whole or part, but not unpublished. I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to discuss experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become a forum for "open mic" publication. Once word got out, the list would really be ruined. Discussing "received forms" does not refer to workshopping or otherwise discussing poems received from listserv participants, but to interrogating the uses and relevance of traditional, "closed" forms like the sestina or pantoum in the contemporary cultural/political context. So, yes, "recieved" does mean something completely different than what you read it to mean. It would be nice to have more engaged, rigorous discussions and debates than I've seen so far, but wouldn't it be a better strategy to start one than to try to critique the editorial statement/welcome message (I suppose this applies to me, here, now, equally...maybe I'll give that a try in the morning...)? I'm sure the exchange of original work among a small group of highly talented and intelligent participants must have been exciting and invigorating in its time, and I'm pissed I missed out. However, this list is not that one; this list is far too big to manage that, I think, so I understand the need for setting parameters. But perhaps they could be revised to allow the inclusion of already published works in support of arguments made in expository prose; I see no harm in that. Michael Tod Edgerton Dan Waber wrote: As a matter of convenient style I've adopted a tone of conversation with the Editorial Board itself, even though I am aware that they have a stated intention of not responding on list to pieces such as this. I am not expecting a direct, or even indirect response. I do think there are enough inquiries into the nature of poetics proper that it is appropriate for posting to the list. Some (hopefully) constructive feedback: poetics@BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > Poetics List Editorial Board: > Charles Bernstein, Lori Emerson, Joel Kuszai, Nick Piombino. In the interest of being rigorous in my examination, I looked for a definition of "editorial board" and found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editorial_board Which I read closely, and found at least one notable discrepancy. That particular definition, throughout, gives the impression that the board, in addition to its meetings and directional steerage, does some writing of the content. Granted, a listserv is not a newspaper, but I've been subbed to this list for years and I think (with the exception of Nick Piombino) I can count on one hand the number of posts to this list I've seen produced by the board that would qualify as containing editorial content related to what the core mission is stated to be. Which is not a problem, by any means, I just wonder why use the term if the reality doesn't match up when there are other terms more accurate that could be used. Moderators, for example, or administrators are both nearer to the actual functions being performed. > Above the world-weary horizons > New obstacles for exchange arise > Or unfold, > O ye postmasters! Or, with a different reading of "post" (as in post to the list), perhaps postmasters! Sorry, a little levity before embarking on the beefy bits. > 1. About the Poetics List > > With the preceding epigraph, the Poetics Listserv was founded by > Charles Bernstein in late 1993. Now in its fourth incarnation, the > list has about 1200 subscribers worldwide. We also have a substantial > number of nonsubscribing readers, who access the list through our web > site (see archive URL above). > > The Poetics List is not a forum for a general discussion of poetry or > for the exchange of poems. Our aim is to support, inform, and extend > those directions in poetry that are committed to innovations, > renovations, and investigations of form and/or/as content, to the > questioning of received forms and styles, and to the creation of the > otherwise unimagined, untried, unexpected, improbable, and impossible. This document has been edited enough times that it now suffers from a severe case of mutually exclusive contradiction. It can be parsed down to: The Poetics list is not a forum for the exchange of poems. Our aim is to support the questioning of received forms and styles, and to the creation of the otherwise unimagined, untried, unexpected, improbable, and impossible. "received" sticks out like a sore thumb there. How do you receive that which is no longer supposed to be sent? Maybe received doesn't mean what I think it does. Maybe support doesn't mean what I think it does, either. But that's a nitpick, I'm sharp enough to figure out that what's really the intent of the above is for the list to be all about a discussion of Poetry and Poetics, without having to muck around with those darned poems. Cool, I can appreciate that, I really can. But interesting conversations about Poetry and Poetics don't happen until someone starts ranting about having to wipe some messy poem off their shoe, or, wants to know if there's a better way to plant their own Poetics in a half a bag of poems someone left in their apartment. You don't get discussion of Poetry without poems, unless you provide some prompting. Which an editorial board could certainly be providing, but, which an administrative/moderative board does not. It's like putting a bunch of people in a room together and saying, "ok, be interesting together". Everything goes along fine until you decide the place would look better without all the weirdos in the funny hats. After you ask them to leave, or take off their hats, you discover that everyone in the room was talking about the hats. And you might even be surprised by this result, until you remembered you were running the avant garde section of the haberdashery convention. > While we recognize that other lists may sponsor other possibilities > for exchange, we request that those participating in this forum keep > in mind the specialized and focused nature of this project and respect > our decision to operate a moderated list. The Poetics List exists to > support and encourage divergent points of view on innovative forms of > modern and contemporary poetry and poetics, and we are committed to do > what is necessary to preserve this space for such dialog. As long as there's no actual examples of the thing we have gathered here to protect, honor, worship, love, practice, preach, etc. This is like Bush-speak. If the list is going to stay shaped the way it is, truth in advertising to new subscribers dictates that you revise this portion. You can't say you're encouraging and supporting divergent points of view in the very act of discouraging and removing support for a view that is *central* to this whole enterprise. Poems are not peripheral to Poetics. > Due to the high number of subscribers, we no longer maintain the open > format with which the list began (at under 100 subscribers). The > specific form of moderation that we employ is a relatively fluid one: > in most cases, messages are reviewed after having been posted to the > list, and difficulties resolved on that basis; however, the listserv > editorial board may shift between this and a pre-review mode which > calls for all messages to be read and approved before being forwarded > to the list. We prefer to avoid this option as it hampers the > spontaneity of discussion that we hope to promote. In addition to > these options, the editorial board will unsubscribe individuals if > they are not, in our opinion, productively contributing to the list or > following our guidelines. We remain committed to this editorial > function as a defining element of the Poetics List. This also has suffered from many versions. You realize you are now saying that the defining element of the Poetics List is the editorial function of unsubscribing individuals who are noncomformist. There really isn't a whole lot of "otherwise unimagined, untried, unexpected, improbable, and impossible" work being produced by those who conform. > Please note that while this list is primarily concerned with > discussions of poetry and poetics, messages relating to politics and > political activism, film, art, media, and so forth are also welcome. But no poems. This about this for a minute. I can post to the Poetics list messages related to political activism, film, art, media, and EVEN so forth. I can post messages about so forth! So forth is allowed, but poems are not. You can post, you know, whatever, as long as it's even remotely related. Poems, on the other hand, are apparently not even remotely related to Poetics. > We strongly encourage subscribers to post information, including web > links, relating to publications (print and internet), reading series, > and blogs that they have coordinated, edited, published, or in which > they appear. Such announcements constitute a core function of this > list. Brief reviews of poetry events and publications (print or > digital) are always welcome. I'm sorry, you say here that posting of announcements is a core function, but no mention of this is made at the beginning where the mission is stated. Maybe it would be clearer and more to the point if the part about support, inform, and extend went down here, and this part went at the beginning. Since it is a core function and all. I mock, but really what I'm saying is what I've been saying all along, I think this document can no longer withstand piecemeal editing and band aid application. It needs to be rewritten from scratch and needs to be much less expansive in its stated aims if it's restrictions are to stay in place. > We do not accept postings of creative work not directed toward a > discussion of poetics issues on the list. The Poetics List is not a > venue for the posting of free-standing, personal poems or journal > entries. Saying it slower, and louder, doesn't work with the hard of hearing or those who aren't fluent in the language, and it's improper to use the same technique in this context, as well. The reason it's improper is that you're simply restating what you've already said earlier, in no uncertain terms, in a tone that suggests we're stupid for not getting it the first time. We're not stupid, you're sending mixed messages. The reason people keep posting poems to the list despite being swatted on their virtual noses with repeated admonitions is not because they're dense, it's because the stated purpose of the list cannot be assimilated as valid with a prohibition against poems as part of it. It just doesn't make sense to people, so in weighing the contradiction, they go with the one that makes sense. Surely, what they really mean is that they want to support. I mean they said right in the beginning and so magnificently (no joke, it is a very well wrought paragraph--it is, in fact, so well done that we actually believe this is what the list is for). Imagine walking into an auditorium. There is a huge banner over the stage that says: We Support Experimental Poetry then, on the stage, there's a lectern, with a post-it note on the angled surface that says: Not intended for use by poets. Now imagine there's also another post-it note right on the microphone that says: Are you an experimental poet? If so, DON'T USE THIS! What do you think will happen if you let 1200 people interested in the support of experimental poetry mingle around in that auditorium for a while? > Also, please note that the Poetics List is not a "chat" list and we > discourage the posting of very short messages intended for only a few > subscribers. After we told everyone to stop being so conversational, it got really quiet. Huh. I wonder why? My take on all this is that the editorial board doesn't really have the resources or inclination to devote much time and effort to an active involvement with the list. Which I can totally relate to, and respect. It can take a huge amount of effort to moderate a group with the potential for stirring stuff up that 1200 people with an interest in Experimental Poetry has. No doubt. But if we go back to the concept of "editorial board" for a final analogy, this current direction is like the editorial board of a newspaper saying, "this job would be great if it wasn't for all the stories people keep sending in" and the next one says, "and don't forget the subscribers, boy I could really get some work done if it wasn't for them" and the third one says, "hey, if we get rid of the subscribers, those darned advertisers will go away, too, now that's an elegant solution!" I would like to see one of two things happen: 1) Rewrite this unwelcoming welcome message to more accurately reflect the reality of the dynamic the current board seeks. Because right now it's a so riddled with contradiction it's silly. OR 2) Change the current board to a group more interested in being active participants instead of after-the-fact legislators, back-channel reprimanders, or figureheads, and then invite poems back in. I have no intention of unsubscribing, like a few who have tiraded before me, the signal-to-noise ratio of the posts suits me just fine as it is, for now. I like the discussions that do happen, and I like the calls for submissions, and I sometimes have the time to fire up a browser and follow a link or two. But I don't think there's been more high quality critical discussion of poetics since poems were made to feel unwelcome. I think there's been less. And I think that's a trend that will continue if poems remain peripheral to Poetry. It's hard to call a Poetics list alive when there are more posts about the deaths of poets than about the births of new poetry. Regards, Dan There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding. - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:43:36 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Errata... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Hosbaum] > sorry to get > his name wrong > > Hobsbaum You also got his first name wrong, Harry -- it was "Philip", not "Phillip". > hard for street > yids > > to get our tonques > around it > > (mea culpa) Yeah, his cousin was the *other* Hobsbawn -- Eric. The marxist historian. I don't think anything about Philip Hobsbaum's life was particularly orthodox, in any sense. He was heavily influenced by Leavis at Cambridge when Leavis wasn't then respectable. I ran him through amazon last night, and the books of poems come up "limited availability" (sod that for a joke), as did +Theory of Communication+. Nothing even on the second-hand register. He was a brilliant teacher and a genius at finding and encouraging poets, but he saw himself as a poet. Except what he'll be remembered for are the people he helped -- Heaney for one. The best book of poems was the Belfast one, +Coming Out Fighting+, and I'll try and scan and post "The Hard Women" from that anon. As dave bircumshaw (who even never met him) said, his death leaves a big gap. Here at least. God knows how he figures on your side of the Pond. I'm too close to this -- I wish someone would take this up and do it properly. He won't be forgotten here, but it might be for the wrong things. Important but partly -- ah, not trivial but not mibee what Philip would have wished. His last published book of poems was the Glasgow one, +Women and Animals+. After that, he was going on to write a sequence called +Lear's Shadow+, but it never emerged. He was one of the great ones. Robin > ' > for this > & everything > > > else.. > > > harry. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 04:10:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ed Friedman Subject: Of Lorenzo Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I always admired Lorenzo Thomas as a teacher, first seeing/hearing him at one of Bernadette Mayer's workshops at the Poetry Project in 1972. On that occasion he was speaking on Chomsky's linguistics. Lorenzo had a way of teaching to everyone in the room. Though he was the featured lecturer, it was clear that he understood knowledge to be an essentially communal and inclusive undertaking. Many years later, he chaired a wrap-up panel at the Project's symposium on Revolutionary Poetry. Early in his remarks he said something like "I've heard some strange shit this weekend." He went on to identify what he found strange as being based in (a) gradualism, the false notion that decisive progressive change occurs as some slow automatic by-product of business-as-usual human affairs and (b) the attitude that all "real" poetry existed outside (and presumably "above") political organizing and movement building. Without putting anyone down or championing any particular aesthetic approach, Lorenzo countered these positions by reading selections from poems connected with the 1960s Civil Rights Movement, pointing out that (a) the tangible gains from that period were the result of intentioned, protracted struggle, beginning long before the coverage of it appeared in mainstream U.S. newspapers, and (b) that the elegant, forceful, complex poems he read were not only _real_ but also well-known (and inspirational) to the participants of the movement. Certainly what I admired in Lorenzo as a teacher permeates his poems and essays. I'm glad, though, that I have these and many other live-and-in-person memories of him. Quite naturally, I think, a part of me anticipated that there were going to be more occasions of Lorenzo, and probably that's where the sadness comes in when I think of his passing. --Ed Friedman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:53:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Re: About the Poetics List In-Reply-To: <20050706064328.48431.qmail@web54204.mail.yahoo.com> (Michael Tod Edgerton's message of "Tue, 5 Jul 2005 23:43:28 -0700") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > As someone relatively new to the list, I can say without reservation > that I do not want my e-mail inundated with endless streams of bad > poetry. Who does? I'm not entirely convinced that was the motivation behind going poemless, but even if it was, it seems ill-advised for the solution to be, "all right then, NO poems at all". But, this is a very American response, now that I think of it. We like the easy solution of eliminating the good with the bad in the name of saving us from the bad. The examples are legion. > Published poems can be referenced, links cut and pasted, in > the course of a discussion of specific poems. I, personally, > however, would be in favor of allowing the citation of published > poems in whole or part, but not unpublished. I'm curious, how would you define "published"? Does self-publishing count (Leaves of Grass)? What if you're a highly respected press and you publish a manuscript of your own through your own press (this happens a lot)? How about if it's on a blog (the choices are too many to pick this early)? How about in the comments of a blog? What about posted to a series of listservs reaching a total number of people greater than the circulation of Poetry (Alan Sondheim, August Highland, Lanny Quarles, mez, etc)? What constitutes the publishing of a piece of hypermedia (Jim Andrews)? Do we only talk about things published by Seagate? What about a poet who declaims all publication entirely (Jesse Taylor for the 20 years up until this week)? The welcome message for the Poetics list says that posting to this list is itself considered by the Editorial Board as a form of publication. I can't imagine a criteria for what would legitimately constitute "published" that wouldn't also exclude at least as much vital work as it includes. Particularly now, in this very exciting time of the digital dancing with literature, on a digitally facilitated list, the kind of work this list's welcome message says its open to is often (but certainly not exclusively) precisely the kind of work that is non-publishable, or apublished, or is in the act of birthing a whole new definition of what published means. Even if a workable definition could be found, I think a list that claims to be open to the impossible in theory, but in practice only allows the citation of the published is untenable. I also think the notion of what constitutes "published" today is one of the most exciting questions in all of literature. I am the type of person who doesn't really do very well at talking about that question. I am pretty good, however, at thinking of different ways to say "well, how about this!?" And I think it's essential to the dialog to include people of both kinds. Without the former, the discussion will probably never really happen in any kind of structured way, and without the latter, the discussion would never have come up in the first place because there would have been no deviation from the norm anyway. Lively discussion requires both sides. > I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to discuss > experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become a > forum for "open mic" publication. Once word got out, the list would > really be ruined. Not really. The list was an open mic for a decade and the simple measures of limiting individuals to 2 posts per day and the entire list to 50 posts per day was effective at stopping the "if no one minds, I'll just go ahead and read a dozen more" syndrome. And I think there is no better way to say you're NOT interested in the new and emerging, the experimental and the impossible, than to say you've given up on open readings. Yeah, they can be painfully bad sometimes. But they are also sometimes brilliant, engaging, and instructive in the art of being human. > Discussing "received forms" does not refer to workshopping or > otherwise discussing poems received from listserv participants, but > to interrogating the uses and relevance of traditional, "closed" > forms like the sestina or pantoum in the contemporary > cultural/political context. So, yes, "recieved" does mean something > completely different than what you read it to mean. Cool, I was unfamiliar with that usage, thank you. > It would be nice to have more engaged, rigorous discussions and > debates than I've seen so far, but wouldn't it be a better strategy > to start one than to try to critique the editorial statement/welcome > message Absolutely this would be better. And this is precisely why I suggested that the Editorial Board do some of that discussion starting. Because in an environment where there is this much control coming from the top, you don't find a lot of people stepping up to test out whether any given topic is going to end up causing a rule change on them. It may be of interest to note here that I've had far more back channel responses of support than total responses on the list. Why would that be? Because people are more comfortable with it. And if the goal here is to encourage discussion, that's a failure. And, actually, I believe have started a more engaged, rigorous discussion and debate. I've even mentioned published poems in it. > (I suppose this applies to me, here, now, equally...maybe > I'll give that a try in the morning...)? I'm sure the exchange of > original work among a small group of highly talented and intelligent > participants must have been exciting and invigorating in its time, > and I'm pissed I missed out. However, this list is not that one; > this list is far too big to manage that, I think, so I understand > the need for setting parameters. But perhaps they could be revised > to allow the inclusion of already published works in support of > arguments made in expository prose; I see no harm in that. I see no harm either. If that's the direction they want to go, great. That's why I offered as suggestion #1 that the welcome message be reworded to more accurately reflect the reality of the situation. If the list is too big (though I don't think it is), and the Editorial Board wants to limit discussion to works that are only as impossible as can be managed within the confines of a print publication produced by a known and reputable press, they should say so. Because wearing the cape of Defender of the Impossible when you don't have the rest of the suit on, makes you look a little underdressed when you fly over the local neighborhoods. I'm not saying this goal/approach has no or even less value than any other approach. I'm saying that organizational groupings of all kinds have a tendency to attract the kind of people they say they want. I think what is wanted here has necessarily evolved over the years, and the welcome message has not evolved gracefully along with it. I'm a poet, so I want the words to be right. Dan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:02:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: About the Poetics List In-Reply-To: <868y0ki4tc.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dan, you're making the whole issue of "published" much more complicated than it actually is. No self-published works would be an acceptable rule to me, but so would including self-published works by authors other than oneself. Leaves of Grass, obviously, has been published and republished by many other people than Walt for a long time. I don't believe that it does happen a lot that editors of highly respected presses publish their own books. There are a few exceptions, like Scalapino, who published Crowd and not evening or light through her O Books. If it's a respected press, then include it. If you think it's an amazing work that someone unfortunately had to publish themselves, include it. Rules are guidelines, not absolutes, and people always take liberties. I've definitely seen poems on this list, as it is. Quote from blogs--why not? Quote from online galleries and journals that include electronic, multimedia, and hybrid works. Now just how much is excluded? Any parameters will necessarily exclude something, but some limits are necessary. I don't think it's as complicated as you find it to be, I don't personally find the issue of what constitututes "published" all that interesting or complex, rather a bit tedious. It really is a matter of common sense. Your splitting hairs with nothing more at stake than whether you can "officially" quote a certain poem on this list that might be excluded from the rules. But I do agree with you that it seems odd (at best) for a poetics list to institute a complete moratorium on the inclusion of poems... Maybe the old 50 posts per day limit would work again, though. Does anyone know why this was abandoned originally? I suppose I can imagine that, with around 10000 participants, many people might never get to the head of the line, and that might be more of a problem. So, yes, how 'bout changing the rules a bit? Best, Tod Dan Waber wrote: Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > As someone relatively new to the list, I can say without reservation > that I do not want my e-mail inundated with endless streams of bad > poetry. Who does? I'm not entirely convinced that was the motivation behind going poemless, but even if it was, it seems ill-advised for the solution to be, "all right then, NO poems at all". But, this is a very American response, now that I think of it. We like the easy solution of eliminating the good with the bad in the name of saving us from the bad. The examples are legion. > Published poems can be referenced, links cut and pasted, in > the course of a discussion of specific poems. I, personally, > however, would be in favor of allowing the citation of published > poems in whole or part, but not unpublished. I'm curious, how would you define "published"? Does self-publishing count (Leaves of Grass)? What if you're a highly respected press and you publish a manuscript of your own through your own press (this happens a lot)? How about if it's on a blog (the choices are too many to pick this early)? How about in the comments of a blog? What about posted to a series of listservs reaching a total number of people greater than the circulation of Poetry (Alan Sondheim, August Highland, Lanny Quarles, mez, etc)? What constitutes the publishing of a piece of hypermedia (Jim Andrews)? Do we only talk about things published by Seagate? What about a poet who declaims all publication entirely (Jesse Taylor for the 20 years up until this week)? The welcome message for the Poetics list says that posting to this list is itself considered by the Editorial Board as a form of publication. I can't imagine a criteria for what would legitimately constitute "published" that wouldn't also exclude at least as much vital work as it includes. Particularly now, in this very exciting time of the digital dancing with literature, on a digitally facilitated list, the kind of work this list's welcome message says its open to is often (but certainly not exclusively) precisely the kind of work that is non-publishable, or apublished, or is in the act of birthing a whole new definition of what published means. Even if a workable definition could be found, I think a list that claims to be open to the impossible in theory, but in practice only allows the citation of the published is untenable. I also think the notion of what constitutes "published" today is one of the most exciting questions in all of literature. I am the type of person who doesn't really do very well at talking about that question. I am pretty good, however, at thinking of different ways to say "well, how about this!?" And I think it's essential to the dialog to include people of both kinds. Without the former, the discussion will probably never really happen in any kind of structured way, and without the latter, the discussion would never have come up in the first place because there would have been no deviation from the norm anyway. Lively discussion requires both sides. > I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to discuss > experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become a > forum for "open mic" publication. Once word got out, the list would > really be ruined. Not really. The list was an open mic for a decade and the simple measures of limiting individuals to 2 posts per day and the entire list to 50 posts per day was effective at stopping the "if no one minds, I'll just go ahead and read a dozen more" syndrome. And I think there is no better way to say you're NOT interested in the new and emerging, the experimental and the impossible, than to say you've given up on open readings. Yeah, they can be painfully bad sometimes. But they are also sometimes brilliant, engaging, and instructive in the art of being human. > Discussing "received forms" does not refer to workshopping or > otherwise discussing poems received from listserv participants, but > to interrogating the uses and relevance of traditional, "closed" > forms like the sestina or pantoum in the contemporary > cultural/political context. So, yes, "recieved" does mean something > completely different than what you read it to mean. Cool, I was unfamiliar with that usage, thank you. > It would be nice to have more engaged, rigorous discussions and > debates than I've seen so far, but wouldn't it be a better strategy > to start one than to try to critique the editorial statement/welcome > message Absolutely this would be better. And this is precisely why I suggested that the Editorial Board do some of that discussion starting. Because in an environment where there is this much control coming from the top, you don't find a lot of people stepping up to test out whether any given topic is going to end up causing a rule change on them. It may be of interest to note here that I've had far more back channel responses of support than total responses on the list. Why would that be? Because people are more comfortable with it. And if the goal here is to encourage discussion, that's a failure. And, actually, I believe have started a more engaged, rigorous discussion and debate. I've even mentioned published poems in it. > (I suppose this applies to me, here, now, equally...maybe > I'll give that a try in the morning...)? I'm sure the exchange of > original work among a small group of highly talented and intelligent > participants must have been exciting and invigorating in its time, > and I'm pissed I missed out. However, this list is not that one; > this list is far too big to manage that, I think, so I understand > the need for setting parameters. But perhaps they could be revised > to allow the inclusion of already published works in support of > arguments made in expository prose; I see no harm in that. I see no harm either. If that's the direction they want to go, great. That's why I offered as suggestion #1 that the welcome message be reworded to more accurately reflect the reality of the situation. If the list is too big (though I don't think it is), and the Editorial Board wants to limit discussion to works that are only as impossible as can be managed within the confines of a print publication produced by a known and reputable press, they should say so. Because wearing the cape of Defender of the Impossible when you don't have the rest of the suit on, makes you look a little underdressed when you fly over the local neighborhoods. I'm not saying this goal/approach has no or even less value than any other approach. I'm saying that organizational groupings of all kinds have a tendency to attract the kind of people they say they want. I think what is wanted here has necessarily evolved over the years, and the welcome message has not evolved gracefully along with it. I'm a poet, so I want the words to be right. Dan There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding. - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:21:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: About the Poetics List In-Reply-To: <20050706170250.26122.qmail@web54201.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tod, A few quick points: Even if you were a long-standing member of this list, it would not give=20 you the right to say "I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to=20 discuss experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become=20 a forum for 'open mic' publication." That's not yours to claim. I'm sure = no harm was intended, but you go on to say "Once word got out, the list=20 would really be ruined." The list has been around for a long time, and I = consider it currently in a state of ruin. I don't think the poems ever=20 were the threat, and they certainly aren't stifling discussion now. If we are discussing poetics, isn't a discussion of what constitutes=20 publishing relevant? Of course you aren't required to be interested, but = I am. One of the wonderful things about free discussions is the way they = spin off in various directions, yes? Perhaps we could even get an obpoem = on the subject. We are in no danger of seeing 50 posts a day on this list. The Editorial = Board didn't like the direction the list was going, and killed all=20 conversation with a set of new rules and a tightening of the old ones.=20 It was clearly deliberate. I'm not sure how they intend to re-build it,=20 but "limits" at this point seem pretty funny. Regards, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: >Dan, you're making the whole issue of "published" much more complicated = than it actually is. No self-published works would be an acceptable rule = to me, but so would including self-published works by authors other than = oneself. Leaves of Grass, obviously, has been published and republished b= y many other people than Walt for a long time. I don't believe that it do= es happen a lot that editors of highly respected presses publish their ow= n books. There are a few exceptions, like Scalapino, who published Crowd = and not evening or light through her O Books. If it's a respected press, = then include it. If you think it's an amazing work that someone unfortuna= tely had to publish themselves, include it. Rules are guidelines, not abs= olutes, and people always take liberties. I've definitely seen poems on t= his list, as it is. Quote from blogs--why not? Quote from online gallerie= s and journals that include electronic, multimedia, and hybrid works. Now= just how much is excluded? Any parameters > will > necessarily exclude something, but some limits are necessary. I don't t= hink it's as complicated as you find it to be, I don't personally find th= e issue of what constitututes "published" all that interesting or complex= , rather a bit tedious. It really is a matter of common sense. Your split= ting hairs with nothing more at stake than whether you can "officially" q= uote a certain poem on this list that might be excluded from the rules. > >But I do agree with you that it seems odd (at best) for a poetics list t= o institute a complete moratorium on the inclusion of poems... > >Maybe the old 50 posts per day limit would work again, though. Does anyo= ne know why this was abandoned originally? I suppose I can imagine that, = with around 10000 participants, many people might never get to the head o= f the line, and that might be more of a problem. > >So, yes, how 'bout changing the rules a bit? > > >Best, > >Tod > >Dan Waber wrote: >Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > =20 > >>As someone relatively new to the list, I can say without reservation >>that I do not want my e-mail inundated with endless streams of bad >>poetry. >> =20 >> > >Who does? I'm not entirely convinced that was the motivation behind >going poemless, but even if it was, it seems ill-advised for the >solution to be, "all right then, NO poems at all". But, this is a very >American response, now that I think of it. We like the easy solution >of eliminating the good with the bad in the name of saving us from the >bad. The examples are legion. > > =20 > >>Published poems can be referenced, links cut and pasted, in >>the course of a discussion of specific poems. I, personally, >>however, would be in favor of allowing the citation of published >>poems in whole or part, but not unpublished. >> =20 >> > >I'm curious, how would you define "published"? Does self-publishing >count (Leaves of Grass)? What if you're a highly respected press and >you publish a manuscript of your own through your own press (this >happens a lot)? How about if it's on a blog (the choices are too many >to pick this early)? How about in the comments of a blog? What about >posted to a series of listservs reaching a total number of people >greater than the circulation of Poetry (Alan Sondheim, August >Highland, Lanny Quarles, mez, etc)? What constitutes the publishing of >a piece of hypermedia (Jim Andrews)? Do we only talk about things >published by Seagate? What about a poet who declaims all publication >entirely (Jesse Taylor for the 20 years up until this week)? > >The welcome message for the Poetics list says that posting to this >list is itself considered by the Editorial Board as a form of >publication. > >I can't imagine a criteria for what would legitimately constitute >"published" that wouldn't also exclude at least as much vital work as >it includes. > >Particularly now, in this very exciting time of the digital dancing >with literature, on a digitally facilitated list, the kind of work >this list's welcome message says its open to is often (but certainly >not exclusively) precisely the kind of work that is non-publishable, >or apublished, or is in the act of birthing a whole new definition of >what published means. > >Even if a workable definition could be found, I think a list that >claims to be open to the impossible in theory, but in practice only >allows the citation of the published is untenable. > >I also think the notion of what constitutes "published" today is one >of the most exciting questions in all of literature. I am the type of >person who doesn't really do very well at talking about that >question. I am pretty good, however, at thinking of different ways to >say "well, how about this!?" And I think it's essential to the dialog >to include people of both kinds. Without the former, the discussion >will probably never really happen in any kind of structured way, and >without the latter, the discussion would never have come up in the >first place because there would have been no deviation from the norm >anyway. Lively discussion requires both sides. > > =20 > >>I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to discuss >>experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become a >>forum for "open mic" publication. Once word got out, the list would >>really be ruined. >> =20 >> > >Not really. The list was an open mic for a decade and the simple >measures of limiting individuals to 2 posts per day and the entire >list to 50 posts per day was effective at stopping the "if no one >minds, I'll just go ahead and read a dozen more" syndrome. > >And I think there is no better way to say you're NOT interested in the >new and emerging, the experimental and the impossible, than to say >you've given up on open readings. Yeah, they can be painfully bad >sometimes. But they are also sometimes brilliant, engaging, and >instructive in the art of being human. > > =20 > >>Discussing "received forms" does not refer to workshopping or >>otherwise discussing poems received from listserv participants, but >>to interrogating the uses and relevance of traditional, "closed" >>forms like the sestina or pantoum in the contemporary >>cultural/political context. So, yes, "recieved" does mean something >>completely different than what you read it to mean. >> =20 >> > >Cool, I was unfamiliar with that usage, thank you. > > =20 > >>It would be nice to have more engaged, rigorous discussions and >>debates than I've seen so far, but wouldn't it be a better strategy >>to start one than to try to critique the editorial statement/welcome >>message >> =20 >> > >Absolutely this would be better. And this is precisely why I suggested >that the Editorial Board do some of that discussion starting. Because >in an environment where there is this much control coming from the >top, you don't find a lot of people stepping up to test out whether >any given topic is going to end up causing a rule change on them. It >may be of interest to note here that I've had far more back channel >responses of support than total responses on the list. Why would that >be? Because people are more comfortable with it. And if the goal here >is to encourage discussion, that's a failure. > >And, actually, I believe have started a more engaged, rigorous >discussion and debate. I've even mentioned published poems in it. > > =20 > >>(I suppose this applies to me, here, now, equally...maybe >>I'll give that a try in the morning...)? I'm sure the exchange of >>original work among a small group of highly talented and intelligent >>participants must have been exciting and invigorating in its time, >>and I'm pissed I missed out. However, this list is not that one; >>this list is far too big to manage that, I think, so I understand >>the need for setting parameters. But perhaps they could be revised >>to allow the inclusion of already published works in support of >>arguments made in expository prose; I see no harm in that. >> =20 >> > >I see no harm either. If that's the direction they want to go, >great. That's why I offered as suggestion #1 that the welcome message >be reworded to more accurately reflect the reality of the >situation. If the list is too big (though I don't think it is), and >the Editorial Board wants to limit discussion to works that are only >as impossible as can be managed within the confines of a print >publication produced by a known and reputable press, they should say >so. Because wearing the cape of Defender of the Impossible when you >don't have the rest of the suit on, makes you look a little >underdressed when you fly over the local neighborhoods. > >I'm not saying this goal/approach has no or even less value than any >other approach. I'm saying that organizational groupings of all kinds >have a tendency to attract the kind of people they say they want. I >think what is wanted here has necessarily evolved over the years, and >the welcome message has not evolved gracefully along with it. > >I'm a poet, so I want the words to be right. > >Dan > > >There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding. > > - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > =20 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:40:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Devaney Subject: Tom Devaney poem for Lorenzo Thomas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A poem for Lorenzo Thomas: DELIBERATE Here is a guy. Where? In the corner. It and he and we are dark. He doesn't nod, but opens his marked and watery eyes wider. I take it as hello, and it is. His eyes are older than he is. He's not someone from Philly, but I understand him in that way for the moment. People here would know him. It's the walk, yes. How he stands, a short guy, big for his size. How he looks, a serious and secret comportment. So he sits; then he's up, then he's stands and then we're here-- and he says: But here's The truth: You have the right to keep your mouth shut Trust me, Across the room A person looking like a crazy version Of somebody you once knew Might be our Savior One who can draw fire Out of ashes At least a lover, maybe The one to take you up a little higher Or let you down easy. But don't look this way, It isn't me call it speech, and it is-- not as fast I am saying, but not at all slow. --Tom Devaney ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 15:05:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: About the Poe et MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit m.s. @ a.b.'s - 10/89 (incomplete) do you think this will end before the nite does? how many yellow shadows can continue to stab eachother before day arrives? this night @ the raw spinnet stripped bare like an old woman baring her missing teeth gaps in speech eyes of forbidden heritage & laundered wishes staring into the past he sits in front of the raw spinnet in the poet's room composing her soul opens the air the poet turns away. the poet turns away ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 15:48:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: JUST FOR ONE MINUTE In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SAY SOMETHING USEFUL OR INTERESTING OR CONTROVERSIAL ABOUT SOMEONE WHO HASN'T RECENTLY DIED. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 16:53:15 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: Re: STANZAS #41 - rob mclennan Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >new from above/ground press > > STANZAS #41 > ottawa poems (blue notes) > a long poem (in 39 parts) by rob mclennan > >1. > > >from backwood lumbertown, > an exercise > that works out of progress > >where main street so far off the main > >brandished, a tradition >of contemporary > >back a bit > > the pool cue over > >bank street from the lip >of parliament hill > all the way > >roll south to st lawrence, >under another > >no one body > or poem > remains the same > >mayor, governor >general, prime minister > >& other optic >failures > > >after an 18 year hiatus, rob mclennan lives where he was born: Ottawa >(where he has never done anything wrong). He keeps writing poetry books, so >people keep publishing them, including paper hotel (Broken Jaw), what's left >(Talonbooks) & stone, book one (Palimpsest Press). He is currently working >on a poetry collection, The Ottawa City Project, & a novel, Missing >Persons, an early chapter of which recently appeared on his increasingly >clever blog www.robmclennan.blogspot.com > >free if you find it, $4 sample (add $2 international) & $20 for 5 issues >(outside canada, $20 US)(payable to rob mclennan), c/o 858 somerset st w, >ottawa ontario canada k1r 6r7 > >STANZAS magazine, for long poems/sequences, published at random in Ottawa, >Ontario, Canada. previous issues include work by Gil McElroy, Aaron Peck, >derek beaulieu, carla milo, Gerry Gilbert, George Bowering, Sheila E. >Murphy & Douglas Barbour, Lisa Samuels, Ian Whistle, Gerry Gilbert, Rachel >Zolf, J.L. Jacobs, nathalie stephens, Meredith Quartermain, etc. 1000 >copies distributed free around various places. exchanges welcome. > >submissions encouraged, with s.a.s.e. & good patience (i take forever) of >up to 28 pages. > >complete bibliography & backlist availability now on-line at >www.track0.com/rob_mclennan > >various above/ground press publications can be found at Mother Tongue >Books (Ottawa), Collected Works (Ottawa), Annex Books (Toronto), etc > >next issue: Jan Allen (Kingston ON) > >======= > > > >-- >poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics >(Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press >fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 >www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ > > -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 16:53:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: JUST FOR ONE MINUTE In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quoting mIEKAL aND : > SAY SOMETHING USEFUL OR INTERESTING OR CONTROVERSIAL ABOUT SOMEONE WHO > HASN'T RECENTLY DIED. > WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH ALL OF THE CAPS? dAVID bUT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:53:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Craig, Ray (SOA)" Subject: JUST FOR ONE MINUTE: Re Translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Twins born 3 months apart" -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 1:49 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: JUST FOR ONE MINUTE SAY SOMETHING USEFUL OR INTERESTING OR CONTROVERSIAL ABOUT SOMEONE WHO HASN'T RECENTLY DIED. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DISCLAIMER=20 The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are confidential to the i= ntended recipient and may also be legally privileged. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorized to receive for the addr= essee) of this email you may not copy, disclose or distribute it to=20 anyone else. =20 If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by= =20e-mail on postmaster@segaamerica.com and then delete the=20 email and any copies. The SEGA Group have made all reasonable efforts to= =20ensure that this e-mail and any attached documents or=20 software are free from software viruses, but it is the recipient's respon= sibility to confirm this. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 17:51:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: JUST FOR ONE MINUTE In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you mean that there is such a person? Hal Art & Plastic Surgery Halvard Johnson halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ On Jul 6, 2005, at 4:48 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > SAY SOMETHING USEFUL OR INTERESTING OR CONTROVERSIAL ABOUT SOMEONE WHO > HASN'T RECENTLY DIED. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 15:18:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: JUST FOR ONE MINUTE Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Plato was a dickhead? ---------- >From: mIEKAL aND >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: JUST FOR ONE MINUTE >Date: Wed, Jul 6, 2005, 12:48 PM > > SAY SOMETHING USEFUL OR INTERESTING OR CONTROVERSIAL ABOUT SOMEONE WHO > HASN'T RECENTLY DIED. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 15:10:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lanny Quarles Subject: Re: JUST FOR ONE MINUTE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LUX AETERNA PLATO EURETHKRALANTERN-JAW DIOGENES MENTULACLONE cave-kra-la kra-la > Plato was a dickhead? > > ---------- >>From: mIEKAL aND >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: JUST FOR ONE MINUTE >>Date: Wed, Jul 6, 2005, 12:48 PM >> > >> SAY SOMETHING USEFUL OR INTERESTING OR CONTROVERSIAL ABOUT SOMEONE WHO >> HASN'T RECENTLY DIED. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 18:12:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: JUST FOR ONE MINUTE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain about two decades ago, the Museum of Contemporary Art in D.C. announced that the next issue of their magazine was to be a posthumous special issue. All contributors had to be dead by publication date. To everyone's surprise (except, perhaps, editors of poetry mags), they received an overwhelming number of submissions and did indeed publish that special issue. > > > SAY SOMETHING USEFUL OR INTERESTING OR CONTROVERSIAL ABOUT SOMEONE WHO > > HASN'T RECENTLY DIED. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 18:17:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Peyrafitte & Kishimoto In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those in the Berkshires &/or Albany, NY area, an excellent way =20 to spend a July evening =97 as proposed by Nicole Peyrafitte: "Before I take off for a two months trip to the French Pyrenees and =20 Morocco, I am extremely pleased to announce two dates with virtuoso =20 pianist Yuko Kishimoto. We will be performing mostly French songs, =20 plus some standards and a few originals." Saturday July 9th 9-12PM Gideon's http://www.nightery.com/ 23 Eagle St., North Adams, MA 413-664-0404 (Close to MassMoca) Thursday July 14th 7-10PM BASTILLE DAY CELEBRATION (a.k.a Pierre's birthday! he will be there! and there is possible =20 outdoor sitting for drinks only, but check with he restaurant for =20 details) Nicole's Bistro http://www.nicolesbistro.com/ Quackenbush House prix fixe menu 633 Broadway Albany 518-465-1111 Hope to see you very soon! www.nicolepeyrafitte.com 518-426-0433 "things fall where they lie/ les choses tombent o=F9 elles reposent " =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Play what you don't know" -- Sun Ra =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202-1310 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ blog:http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 17:44:08 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Poet Warrior PR Comments: To: Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No comment needed -- Ron Silliman America Supports You: Web Site Will Pay Tribute to Poet Warriors By Terri Lukach American Forces Press Service WASHINGTON, July 6, 2005 – Pfc. Jamie A. Goldstein so touched Kristin Johnson with his poem about the eagerness of soldiers in training to fight for their country that she dedicated a Web site to sharing his poems and the stories of other poet warriors. "I was just blown away by this wonderful poem," Johnson said. "The voice he puts to the military is so incredible." Johnson said Goldstein's poem inspired her to showcase his words and those of others like him. "The men and women of our armed forces are bright, intelligent and committed - especially those serving now in Afghanistan and Iraq," Johnson said. "They are doing something with their lives and for other people. They are expressing their passion, their dreams and their commitment to freedom. And I am passionate about giving them a voice," she said. Goldstein is attached to the Army's 2nd Battalion, 58th Infantry Division, and is awaiting deployment to Iraq. His poem describes the warrior ethos of a brotherhood training for war and eager to fight for freedom. Johnson said she spoke with Goldstein's mother. "I talked to her about the poem," Johnson said, "and was captivated by the need to capture the history of these men and their families." The "Poet Warrior Project" started in earnest this month, and Johnson said she expects the site to be up and running in a few months. Goldstein's poem will be its inaugural presentation. Johnson said that while people know of many poets from past wars, from the nation's earliest days through World War II, not many poets from recent wars are known. "Yet, these men are in touch with life at its most fundamental level. To not express that, to lose it, is a waste," she said. "This is the history record of a generation, a generation that is doing something phenomenal. They are fighting a war against terrorism, and none of us knows what it is like," she continued. "I want to record their experiences, their feelings, and also that of their families." Johnson is a playwright, a journalist, a Web writer, a screenwriter, the author of three books, and the creator of an Internet site called "Poems for You" which she launched in 2001. "Writing is my passion," she said. "I have always written poetry - for special occasions like birthdays or weddings. Finally, someone asked, 'Why don't you get paid for it?'" She said poetry is a special, personal kind of writing. "There is something about poetry that is mystical, beautiful," she said. "It doesn't need to be for publication, but to express feelings. That's what these soldiers are doing, and in such a beautiful way." Johnson said she was impressed by the depth, courage and eloquence of Goldstein's poetry, and hopes to raise awareness of the many wonderful things American troops are doing that go unreported. "I'm really thrilled to be able to support our troops in this way," she said. When Eagles Learn to Fly by Pfc. Jamie A. Goldstein 2nd Battalion, 58th Regiment Jan. 14, 2005 High atop a mountain, The newest look around. In their hearts they yearn to jump, But to the nest, they're bound. They see what's going on abroad, And it consumes their thoughts. There's shoes to fill and prey to kill, And targets to be caught. They may be mean, they may be angry, Strong may be their drive. But all of that means nothing, 'Til these eagles learn to fly. They sacrifice their blood and sweat, Earn feathers one-by-one, And bleed and sweat they will, until The day of training's done. And at that time, they then reflect, On things they all have learned, And often re-read passages, From pages that they've turned. With contempt for their confinement, They sing verses as they cry, But that will all soon change When these eagles learn to fly. Their blood is hot. Their eyes are cold. Their hearts know not of fear. They dream of wreaths of olive leaves, But still clutch tight their spears. Collectively they ponder, The enemies they will try. They've skills to hone and wings to grow, But that, they know, takes time. When the sand has fell completely, And their wings spread true and wide, They'll soar across the skyline And the world shall hear them cry: "Those who dare burn olive branches, Those who force their way, Those who seize what isn't theirs, And dare refuse to pay, Those who live by wicked values, And dare to walk with pride, Clear your throat and swallow, For we have learned to fly!" "Those who dare crusade, Against the name of what is just, Those who dare raise arms, By exploiting others' trust, And expect a repercussion, No more violent than a sigh, Today you shall be proven wrong, For we have learned to fly!" "Those who dare condemn us, For enjoying our free will, Those who feel our choices, Make us wrong enough to kill, Those who dare assault us, Anywhere at any time - You've met your final adversary; For we have learned to fly!" Related Site: Poet Warrior http://www.poemsforyou.com/poetwarrior.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 18:01:35 -0700 Reply-To: Denise Enck Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Denise Enck Subject: Michael McClure & M.L. Liebler in Berkeley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael McClure jams and reads with Detroit performance poet M.L. Liebler Saturday, August 27, at 7:30 Poetry Flash at Cody's Cody's Books 2454 Telegraph Avenue (at Haste) Berkeley Cody's: 510-845-7852 Poetry Flash: 510-525-5476 $2 at the door Hope to see you there! __ Michael McClure & Ray Manzarek www.McClure-Manzarek.com=20 po box 972 mukilteo wa 98275 usa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 18:26:02 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: May Swenson article in Salt Lake Tribune Comments: To: Wom Po MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Utah poet finally handed her laurels Significant voice: The late May Swenson, obscure in her home state, will be honored at the Smithsonian gallery By Kristen Moulton The Salt Lake Tribune Salt Lake Tribune LOGAN - May Swenson may not be known by most folks in the town where she grew up riding stick horses among the poplars at the bottom of Old Main Hill, scrubbing floors for her large Mormon family and writing in her adolescent diary. Nor does Utah take much notice of Swenson, who died in Delaware in 1989. And yet, her portrait will soon hang in the National Portrait Gallery of the Smithsonian Institution, a distinction shared by Brigham Young and Robert Leroy Parker, aka Butch Cassidy, among other Utahns. "It's a real honor for the state as well as for May," says Suzzanne Bigelow of Salt Lake City, co-author of the 1996 book May Swenson, A Poet's Life in Photos. It also is recognition that Swenson, though largely unknown in her home town and state, is nonetheless regarded as a significant 20th century American poet. "Within the community of established poets, she is revered," says Michael Spooner, director of Utah State University Press, which has published three books about Swenson and is preparing a collection of essays about her work. Spooner, English professor Paul Crumbley and several graduate students are involved in the May Swenson Project to make the Cache Valley native better known. USU has been been sponsoring an annual poetry contest in her name, had a symposium last year, established a May Swenson room in the English Department and plans another in the library now under construction. Swenson's champions also have asked Logan to erect a sign at the southern entrance to the northern Utah city, denoting it as May Swenson's birthplace. Having her portrait in the National Portrait Gallery can only help bring Swenson more respect, says Crumbley. The 1960 portrait, in pastels and on paper, is by artist Beauford Delaney, a friend of Swenson's. The National Portrait Gallery bought it from the poet's literary estate in May. "She's obscure. I think that we can change that," says Crumbley. Swenson was born in Logan in May 1913, the eldest of 10 children of Dan Arthur and Margaret Swenson, converts to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who immigrated from Sweden to Utah. Her father taught woodworking at Utah Agricultural College, which became Utah State University, and kept fruit trees and a huge garden on the family's two acres just west of campus. He also was a writer, and read to his children at the kitchen table at night. Swenson's mother was quiet and hard-working and relied on Swenson to help manage the brood of children who came after her and to keep house. A younger sister, Ruth Eyre of Logan, remembers Swenson entertaining her young charges with impromptu stories, including one about how many shoes a centipede would need. "She told us that story as she was scrubbing the kitchen floor," Eyre recalls. After graduating from USU, Swenson worked briefly as a reporter for the Deseret News in Salt Lake City. At 22, she borrowed $200 from her dad for a trip to New York City. Thereafter, she made only occasional visits back to Logan. She had hoped to be a newspaper writer, but had to settle for odd jobs that barely paid the rent on a series of small apartments. At night, she wrote poetry. After dozens of rejections, she was finally published in The Saturday Review of Literature, 13 years after she arrived in New York. Though she continued to work at secretarial jobs, Swenson scrimped so she could take long writing breaks, including several at artists' colonies, according to her partner of 25 years, Rozanne Knudson. By the time Swenson died of a heart attack, brought on by asthma and high blood pressure at age 76, she had published 11 volumes of poetry and had been awarded many top cultural honors, such as the MacArthur Foundation Fellowship worth $380,000. She was a chancellor for the Academy of American Poets. Along the way, Swenson stopped practicing the Mormon religion of her youth, once explaining that she couldn't have faith in what she couldn't see. She loved the music, but was not a believer. She also was bothered by the discrepancy in the roles of men and women in the church and all of society, says Knudson, executor of Swenson's estate and an author herself. Swenson remained devoted to her parents - they visited her twice in Greenwich Village as they traveled to and from Sweden for a Mormon mission - and she and her siblings were close. She shared her MacArthur prize money with her brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews. Swenson's obscurity, says Spooner at USU, surely has to do with poetry's small place in American society. "People just don't know poetry." His own university once overlooked opportunities to put the spotlight on its distinguished graduate. Though USU granted Swenson an honorary doctorate in 1987 and earlier had her teach a summer workshop, the university demolished the home where she was raised and a former curator, now deceased, rebuffed an offer for the university to keep some of her papers. Washington University in St. Louis, instead, has 5,000 of her letters and working papers. Utah's other universities did not invite Swenson for workshops or readings, although she crisscrossed the country, visiting college campuses for such occasions. Knudson believes there are reasons Utahns, unlike easterners, do not know Swenson and her work. Poetry is about comfort, and Mormons, she says, find comfort in their own scriptures and inspirational writing rather than in poetry. Knudson was raised LDS in Virginia and was educated at Brigham Young University in Provo. Though Swenson's siblings adored her, they have been reserved about publicly trumpeting her poetic genius, says Knudson. Not only did Swenson drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes for much of her life - both proscribed by the LDS Church - she was a lesbian. Of all the nieces and nephews, not one has May's name, Knudson notes. Margaret Woodbury of Provo, who spent her 18th summer with Swenson, her older sister, in Manhattan, says the family and May had an understanding. "She allowed people to be who they were and we allowed her to be who she was." Crumbley, the USU English professor at the helm of the May Swenson Project, says Swenson had no use for labels. She wasn't a lesbian poet. She wasn't a New York poet. She wasn't a western poet. Though she wrote often about the Atlantic Ocean, which she loved, she also wrote about the mountains of the West. "She would not be pigeonholed," says Spooner. "She was interested in all of life." One of the most remarkable aspects of Swenson's 900-poem legacy is its breadth. She wrote about nature and about space travel and science, often employing humor and irony. Her poetry, though often poignant, was light rather than dark. Ted Kooser, the current U.S. poet laureate, says Swenson had a strong influence on him as a young poet. "It seemed to me she could do anything, could write well in any form, in any mood, and the poems were not only virtuoso performances but rich with life and feeling," he wrote in an e-mail to The Salt Lake Tribune. Wendy Wick Reaves, curator of prints and drawings at the National Portrait Gallery in Washington, says the gallery was thrilled to buy the 18-by-24-inch portrait of Swenson. The museum has been closed for renovation since early 2000 and won't reopen until July 4, 2006. The reopening exhibits are already scheduled, so Swenson's portrait will have to be displayed later. Swenson will be the 21st Utahn in the gallery, either as a portrait subject or artist. "She isn't as well-known as Marianne Moore or Elizabeth Bishop, but she really does rank with them in terms of 20th century poetry," says Reaves. "She was really very, very influential." kmoulton@sltrib.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 21:43:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City Classic Albums Live presents Live Aid at 20 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit please forward ---------------- Boog City Classic Albums Live presents Live Aid at 20 Wed. July 13, 7:00 p.m., $10 Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery (and 1st Street) NYC 20 years to the day of the concerts in London and Philadelphia benefiting famine relief in Ethiopia, 11 local artists play selections from that day, featuring performances by Balls to Monty The Domestics Steve Espinola and Debby Schwartz Amy Hills The Inevitable Breakups Limp Richard Matt Lydon The Marianne Pillsburys The Millerite Redeemers Mr. McGregor The Trouble Dolls (running order of show and tracks can be seen on www.boogcityevents.blogspot.com) Hosted by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum Directions: F train to Second Avenue, or 6 train to Bleecker Street. Venue is at foot of 1st Street, between Houston and Bleecker streets, across from CBGBs. Call 212-842-BOOG(2664) or email editor@boogcity.com for further information www.thedomestics.com www.steveespinola.com www.amyhills.com www.inevitablebreakups.com www.mariannepillsbury.com www.troubledolls.net -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 00:36:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: JUST FOR ONE MINUTE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i tin e rate ill it e rate how do ya spell rooting as in rooting for the olympics to be played out in .... where do you think they ought to be/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 08:42:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: About the Poetics List In-Reply-To: <42CC131B.9000408@natisp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On the contrary, Jonathan, I have EVERY right to express my opinion, with the understanding that it's merely that: my one opinion. Period. It may be wrong, it may be in the minority, but I have never and I will never shy away from expressing my opinion. If I'm wrong in my assumption you cite below, then let me know when the slam competition begins so I can unsubscribe. Of course those interested should discuss what constitutes "publishing" if they like--I never said I thought that shouldn't be allowed. I don't think it's a debate that's relevant, however, to setting down some practical guidelines that certainly don't have to be immutable or without exception, and that may help resolve the rather bizarre state of (at least officially) having no poems allowed in a discussion of poetry and poetics. I think it's a shame that some people feel the list is currently in a state of ruin. Something really should be done to counter that. What can we do? Anybody? Tod Jonathan Penton wrote: Tod, A few quick points: Even if you were a long-standing member of this list, it would not give you the right to say "I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to discuss experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become a forum for 'open mic' publication." That's not yours to claim. I'm sure no harm was intended, but you go on to say "Once word got out, the list would really be ruined." The list has been around for a long time, and I consider it currently in a state of ruin. I don't think the poems ever were the threat, and they certainly aren't stifling discussion now. If we are discussing poetics, isn't a discussion of what constitutes publishing relevant? Of course you aren't required to be interested, but I am. One of the wonderful things about free discussions is the way they spin off in various directions, yes? Perhaps we could even get an obpoem on the subject. We are in no danger of seeing 50 posts a day on this list. The Editorial Board didn't like the direction the list was going, and killed all conversation with a set of new rules and a tightening of the old ones. It was clearly deliberate. I'm not sure how they intend to re-build it, but "limits" at this point seem pretty funny. Regards, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: >Dan, you're making the whole issue of "published" much more complicated than it actually is. No self-published works would be an acceptable rule to me, but so would including self-published works by authors other than oneself. Leaves of Grass, obviously, has been published and republished by many other people than Walt for a long time. I don't believe that it does happen a lot that editors of highly respected presses publish their own books. There are a few exceptions, like Scalapino, who published Crowd and not evening or light through her O Books. If it's a respected press, then include it. If you think it's an amazing work that someone unfortunately had to publish themselves, include it. Rules are guidelines, not absolutes, and people always take liberties. I've definitely seen poems on this list, as it is. Quote from blogs--why not? Quote from online galleries and journals that include electronic, multimedia, and hybrid works. Now just how much is excluded? Any parameter s > will > necessarily exclude something, but some limits are necessary. I don't think it's as complicated as you find it to be, I don't personally find the issue of what constitututes "published" all that interesting or complex, rather a bit tedious. It really is a matter of common sense. Your splitting hairs with nothing more at stake than whether you can "officially" quote a certain poem on this list that might be excluded from the rules. > >But I do agree with you that it seems odd (at best) for a poetics list to institute a complete moratorium on the inclusion of poems... > >Maybe the old 50 posts per day limit would work again, though. Does anyone know why this was abandoned originally? I suppose I can imagine that, with around 10000 participants, many people might never get to the head of the line, and that might be more of a problem. > >So, yes, how 'bout changing the rules a bit? > > >Best, > >Tod > >Dan Waber wrote: >Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > > >>As someone relatively new to the list, I can say without reservation >>that I do not want my e-mail inundated with endless streams of bad >>poetry. >> >> > >Who does? I'm not entirely convinced that was the motivation behind >going poemless, but even if it was, it seems ill-advised for the >solution to be, "all right then, NO poems at all". But, this is a very >American response, now that I think of it. We like the easy solution >of eliminating the good with the bad in the name of saving us from the >bad. The examples are legion. > > > >>Published poems can be referenced, links cut and pasted, in >>the course of a discussion of specific poems. I, personally, >>however, would be in favor of allowing the citation of published >>poems in whole or part, but not unpublished. >> >> > >I'm curious, how would you define "published"? Does self-publishing >count (Leaves of Grass)? What if you're a highly respected press and >you publish a manuscript of your own through your own press (this >happens a lot)? How about if it's on a blog (the choices are too many >to pick this early)? How about in the comments of a blog? What about >posted to a series of listservs reaching a total number of people >greater than the circulation of Poetry (Alan Sondheim, August >Highland, Lanny Quarles, mez, etc)? What constitutes the publishing of >a piece of hypermedia (Jim Andrews)? Do we only talk about things >published by Seagate? What about a poet who declaims all publication >entirely (Jesse Taylor for the 20 years up until this week)? > >The welcome message for the Poetics list says that posting to this >list is itself considered by the Editorial Board as a form of >publication. > >I can't imagine a criteria for what would legitimately constitute >"published" that wouldn't also exclude at least as much vital work as >it includes. > >Particularly now, in this very exciting time of the digital dancing >with literature, on a digitally facilitated list, the kind of work >this list's welcome message says its open to is often (but certainly >not exclusively) precisely the kind of work that is non-publishable, >or apublished, or is in the act of birthing a whole new definition of >what published means. > >Even if a workable definition could be found, I think a list that >claims to be open to the impossible in theory, but in practice only >allows the citation of the published is untenable. > >I also think the notion of what constitutes "published" today is one >of the most exciting questions in all of literature. I am the type of >person who doesn't really do very well at talking about that >question. I am pretty good, however, at thinking of different ways to >say "well, how about this!?" And I think it's essential to the dialog >to include people of both kinds. Without the former, the discussion >will probably never really happen in any kind of structured way, and >without the latter, the discussion would never have come up in the >first place because there would have been no deviation from the norm >anyway. Lively discussion requires both sides. > > > >>I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to discuss >>experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become a >>forum for "open mic" publication. Once word got out, the list would >>really be ruined. >> >> > >Not really. The list was an open mic for a decade and the simple >measures of limiting individuals to 2 posts per day and the entire >list to 50 posts per day was effective at stopping the "if no one >minds, I'll just go ahead and read a dozen more" syndrome. > >And I think there is no better way to say you're NOT interested in the >new and emerging, the experimental and the impossible, than to say >you've given up on open readings. Yeah, they can be painfully bad >sometimes. But they are also sometimes brilliant, engaging, and >instructive in the art of being human. > > > >>Discussing "received forms" does not refer to workshopping or >>otherwise discussing poems received from listserv participants, but >>to interrogating the uses and relevance of traditional, "closed" >>forms like the sestina or pantoum in the contemporary >>cultural/political context. So, yes, "recieved" does mean something >>completely different than what you read it to mean. >> >> > >Cool, I was unfamiliar with that usage, thank you. > > > >>It would be nice to have more engaged, rigorous discussions and >>debates than I've seen so far, but wouldn't it be a better strategy >>to start one than to try to critique the editorial statement/welcome >>message >> >> > >Absolutely this would be better. And this is precisely why I suggested >that the Editorial Board do some of that discussion starting. Because >in an environment where there is this much control coming from the >top, you don't find a lot of people stepping up to test out whether >any given topic is going to end up causing a rule change on them. It >may be of interest to note here that I've had far more back channel >responses of support than total responses on the list. Why would that >be? Because people are more comfortable with it. And if the goal here >is to encourage discussion, that's a failure. > >And, actually, I believe have started a more engaged, rigorous >discussion and debate. I've even mentioned published poems in it. > > > >>(I suppose this applies to me, here, now, equally...maybe >>I'll give that a try in the morning...)? I'm sure the exchange of >>original work among a small group of highly talented and intelligent >>participants must have been exciting and invigorating in its time, >>and I'm pissed I missed out. However, this list is not that one; >>this list is far too big to manage that, I think, so I understand >>the need for setting parameters. But perhaps they could be revised >>to allow the inclusion of already published works in support of >>arguments made in expository prose; I see no harm in that. >> >> > >I see no harm either. If that's the direction they want to go, >great. That's why I offered as suggestion #1 that the welcome message >be reworded to more accurately reflect the reality of the >situation. If the list is too big (though I don't think it is), and >the Editorial Board wants to limit discussion to works that are only >as impossible as can be managed within the confines of a print >publication produced by a known and reputable press, they should say >so. Because wearing the cape of Defender of the Impossible when you >don't have the rest of the suit on, makes you look a little >underdressed when you fly over the local neighborhoods. > >I'm not saying this goal/approach has no or even less value than any >other approach. I'm saying that organizational groupings of all kinds >have a tendency to attract the kind of people they say they want. I >think what is wanted here has necessarily evolved over the years, and >the welcome message has not evolved gracefully along with it. > >I'm a poet, so I want the words to be right. > >Dan > > >There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding. > > - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding. - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:44:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: New Address for Furniture Press Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi: Sarah and I plus Furniture Press will have a new mailing address as of 7/8/= 2005: Chris + Sarah Casamassima 304 A7 Stevenson Lane Baltimore, MD 21204 Thanks! Chris+Sarah www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae baltimorereads.blogspot.com zillionpoems.blogspot.com --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:56:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Nomadic Blog Posts Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Recent post on Pierre Joris' NOPAMDICS blog: How slow is =84As slow as possible=93? Opacity (2) On Opacity July 4 =97 Lorenzo Thomas Summer Reading: The Ten Most Harmful Books Abdelwahab Meddeb on Arabic Philippe Jaccottet at 80 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Play what you don't know" -- Sun Ra =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202-1310 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ blog:http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:09:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: About the Poetics List In-Reply-To: <20050707154241.56674.qmail@web54207.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: >On the contrary, Jonathan, I have EVERY right to express my opinion, with the >understanding that it's merely that: my one opinion. Period. It may be wrong, >it may be in the minority, but I have never and I will never shy away >from expressing my opinion. If I'm wrong in my assumption you cite >below, then let me know when the slam competition begins so I can >unsubscribe. > > > But what you offered was not your opinion. It was, as you correctly called it a moment later, an assumption, one that lead you to speak for the list at large. By all means, express your opinion. But surely you understand that is different from claiming to express the opinion of "most of the list." The last time this was debated (and it has been debated often and heavily), there was about a 50%-50% split among the vocal members as to whether or not the posting of poems should be permitted. Of course, neither you nor I have any idea what most of the list readers think. If you are unwilling to be on a list with those who are interested in unpublished poetry, on the grounds that we are all conspiring to cause a "slam competition," that is of course your perogative. I assure you I'm not unwilling to share space with you. Personally, I think hyperbole is pretty groovy. >Of course those interested should discuss what constitutes "publishing" >if they like--I never said I thought that shouldn't be allowed. I don't think >it's a debate that's relevant, however, to setting down some practical >guidelines that certainly don't have to be immutable or without >exception, and that may help resolve the rather bizarre state of (at least officially) having no poems allowed in a discussion of poetry and poetics. > > Fair enough. It's nice when a conversation spins into something it was not, originally, though. I'm going to skip the implied question of "what should be these practical guidelines?" for the reasons I outlined below. >I think it's a shame that some people feel the list is currently in a >state of ruin. Something really should be done to counter that. What can >we do? Anybody? > >Tod > > > The bottom line on this: the Editorial Board does not appear to be at all swayed or interested by what people think should be done to the list. That is my analysis, and it could be inaccurate. However, since it seems to be the case, I don't see the point in debating or suggesting. I assume they have a plan for rebuilding the list. If so, we wil likely see its results eventually. If not, oh well. I don't see any indication that our input is solicited. Regards, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:49:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lou Rowan Subject: Re: Golden Handcuffs Review #5 out In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050606101006.048d5790@writing.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed To all, This Creeley and Davenport memorial issue hit the distributors (Ingram, DeBoer) early this week, and should be arriving in bookstores. New work by Mark Axelrod, Rachel Back, Charles Bernstein, Gregg Biglieri, Sarah Campbell, Jaclyn Cole, Serge Gavronsky, Jesse Glass, Bernard Hoeppfner, Pierre Joris, Leslie Kaplan, Karen Kelley, Hank Lazer, Stacey Levine, Jason, Macey, Rick Moody, Paul Naylor, Kevin Nolan, Doug Nufer, John Olson, Toby Olson, Peter Quartermain, Donald Revell, Lou Rowan, Daniele Sallenave, Kyle Schlesinger, Charles Stein, John Taggart, James Tierney, and Norman Weinstein. Essays on Creeley and Davenport, and responses by writers to each others' work in the issue. Subscriptions $12/annum. Single copies $6.95. Ads $100/page, smaller sizes and repeats negotiated. Website www.goldenhandcuffsreview.com Please read. Please support us. Thanks, Lou Rowan >From: Charles Bernstein >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Recommended Summer Reading >Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:59:20 -0400 > >Recommended Summer Reading, II > >Barbara Guest, The Red Gaze (Wesleyan University Press) > >Douglas Messerli, ed., The PIP Anthology of World Poetry of the 20th >Century, vol. 5: Intersections: Innovative Poetry of Southern California, >with provocative intro.by Messerli > >Will Alexander, Exobiology as Goddess (Manifest Press) José Lezama Lima, >Selections, ed. & intro. Ernesto Livon-Grosman (University of California >Press) > >Juliana Spahr, This Connection of Anyone With Lungs (University of >California Press) > >Norman Fischer, Slowly but Dearly (Chax) > >Maria Damon & Miekal And, pleasureTEXTpossession (Zasterle) >Boisterous and engaging collaboration culminating in a visual tour de >force, "E.n.t.r.a.n.c.e.d" > >Keith Waldrop, The Real Subject: Queries and Conjectures of Jacob Delafon >with Sample Poems (Omnidawn) > >Thomas Fink, After Taxes (Marsh Hawk Press) > >Pablo Picasso, The Burial of the Count of Orgaz & Other Poems. ed. & tr. >Jerome Rothenberg & Pierre Joris (Exact Change) > >Amelia Rosselli , War Variations; tr. Lucia Re & Paul Vangelisti, afterword >by Pier Paolo Pasolini (Green Integer) > >Douglas Messerli, First Words (Green Integer) > >Jerome Rothenberg, Translations and Variations (Wesleyan) > >Adrienne Rich -- The School Among the Ruins (Norton) > >Chris Tysh, Cleavage (Roof) > >Charles Alexander, near or random acts (Singling Horse) > >Louise H. Forsyth, ed., Nicole Brossard: Essays on Her Work (Guernica >Editions) > >Leslie Scalapino, ed. War and Peace (O Books) > >Taylor Brady, Yesterday’s News (Factory School) > >Michelle Leggott, Milk & Honey (New Zealand University Press) > >Elizabeth Treadwell, Chantry (Chax) > >Merril Gilfillan, Small Wonders (Qua Books) > >James Longenbach, The Resistance to Poetry (University of Chicago) >me > >Leslie Scalapino and Judith Goldman, ed. War and Peace 2 (O Books) > >Peter Gizzi, Periplum and Other Poems (Salt) > >Gilbert Sorrentino, New and Selected Poems: 1958-1998 by (Green Integer) > >Rodrigo Toscano, To Leveling Swerve (Krupsaya) >Kenneth Goldsmith, The Weather (Make Now) > >Ted Greenwald, The Up and Up (Atelos) > >Mark Wallace, Temporary Worker Rides the Subway (Green Integer) > >Bernadette Mayer, Indigo Bunting (Zasterle Press) > >Eileen Tabios, I Take Thee, English, for My Beloved (Marsh Hawk) > >David McAleavy, Huge Haiku (Chax) > >Lev Rubinstein, Catalog of Comedic Novelties, tr. Philip Meters and >Tatiana Tulchinsky (Ugly Duckling Presse) > >Phillip Foss, The Ideation (Singing Horse) > >Jen Bevin, Nets (Ugly Duckling) > >Ron Silliman, Under Albany (Salt Publishing) > >Jonathan Skinner, Political Cactus Poems (Palm Tree Press) > >Paul Auster, Collected Prose (Picador) > >Ravi Shankar, Instrumentality (Cherry Grove Press) > >Sasha Steensen, A Magic Book (Fence Books) > >Steve Benson, Open Clothes (Atelos) > >Heidi Lynn Staples, Guess Can Gallop (New Issues Press / Western Michigan >University Press) > >Gerald Bruns, The Material of Poetry: Sketches for a Philosophical Poetics >(University of Georgia Press) > >Dimitri Prigov, 500 Drops of Blood in an Absorbent Medium, tr. Christopher >Mattison (Ugly Duckling Press) > >Peter Jaeger, Ekhardt Cars, (Salt Publishing) > >Paul Celan, Threadsuns, tr. Pierre Joris (Green Integer) > > >* > >Toward the Open Field: Poets on the Art of Poetry 1800-1950, ed. Melissa >Kwansy (Wesleyan University Press) > >Poetry in Theory: An Anthology 1900-2000, ed. Jon Cook (Blackwell) > > >* > >NOTE ALSO >Our new books from the University of Alabama Modern and Contemporary Poetry >Series -- > >Abigail Child, This is Called Moving: A Critical Poetics of Film (just out >this week) > >Peter Middleton, Distant Reading: Performance, Readership, and Consumption >in Contemporary Poetry > >Aldon Nielsen, Integral Music: Languages of African-American Innovation _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 15:09:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Usoku In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Irving Weiss wrote: > One way of doing haiku to dispel the fog of its > everywhereness is to do it > in: > > SYLLOGAIKU > > All men are mortal > Socrates and his young men > Where have they all gone > > Irving Weiss > > www.irvingweiss.net Thas a syllaku, yuh dope! Didn't know Jesse had taken his vendetta against the use of "ku" to suggest haikuic tonalities to this high court, for I don't visit it much. Apparently nobody came to my defense! Woe. --Bob G. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 15:26:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: ku In-Reply-To: <20050626041557.87286.qmail@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Didn't see the following. It doesn't defend my "mathemaku" and "crytographiku," but defends Scott's "visual haiku," so sorta defends me. So: thanks, Stephen. Bob, the Cranker --- Stephen Baraban wrote: > Thinking of the situation of Jesse Glass wanting to > dub some Western transformions of haiku "usoku" > (false > haiku)... > > I recollect Akira Kurosawa's 1949 detective thriller > "Stray Dog" ("Nora Inu"), which is about a Japanse > detective obessively searching for the gun a > criminal > has stolen from him. There's a scene in which, as > part > of his investigation, the detective attends a > baseball > game. When the 7th inning comes, you see all the > people in the stands get up for the "7th inning > stretch". At the screening of this movie I attended > (at New York City's Japan Society), the audience, > including myself, was laughing vigorously at this > moment, because it seemed droll that the Japanese > would adopt this silly little fan ritual along with > the consequential rules of the game... > > So this seems to indicate that the Japanese do > believe > very deeply that if you are going to adopt an > activity > from another culture you should take on all the > rules, > practices, traditions and philosophies of that > activity. Thus one could say that the Japanese are > in > a strong position to ask the same from, for > instance, > Western haiku-fanciers. > > And yet, and yet--if in the West our particular > genius > is of a more iconoclastic nature, why shouldn't we > do > what we do? The visual haiku (or "haiku") by Scott > Helms on Geof Huth's site is interesting to > contemplate--I'm just starting, but I'd say it's > very > interesting how each "line" in these whatevers is > itself broken into three parts. However these > "lines" > are rather angular, which IS a little jarring in > terms > of what I think of as the haiku spirit... > > Anyway, Irving Weiss's Socrates haiku sent to this > list in response to this discussion was pretty damn > wonderful, I hope we can agree on THAT, J.G. > > Last thing...what's I imagine is VERY hard to > stomach > for ANYONE who's seriously contemplated haiku for > even > 15 minutes in iffy translations is this current > craze > in American (also British?) popular culture to > adopt > haiku as simply concise statement of any sort in > 5/7/5, so there are phenomena like contests to > encapsulate current news events in dopey > all-too-clever "haikus". > > > > --- Jesse Glass wrote: > > > To describe, accurately, the proliferation of > "kus" > > cranked out by Bob > > Gru-ku-machine-mann, and now (heaven help us!) > > "visual haiku" invented > > by Scott Helms and displayed on Geof Huth's > site--I > > offer the word > > Usoku from the Japanese Uso--meaning false, and > > ku--line or inscription. > > Usoku, because of course none of these forms of > > writing or art have > > anything to do with haiku. Jess > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Sports > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football > http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com > ____________________________________________________ Sell on Yahoo! Auctions – no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 19:14:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Durgin Subject: on Lorenzo Thomas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following was commissioned by David Buuck, editor and publisher of the journal Tripwire. I figured it'd make a suitable contribution to the tributes and other remarks here. The Cartesian Funk on the Recent Work of Lorenzo Thomas, Poet. Writing poems involves that desperate attempt to pass through sophistication into wisdom. --Lorenzo Thomas, introduction to Chances Are Few: Expanded Second Edition, 2003 In French philosophers Gilles Deleuze & Félix Guattari's third of A Thousand Plateaus, a lobster becomes an exemplar of and persona for the history of philosophy. Simultaneously, it stands for geo-political "globalization" - neo-colonialism's intrinsic foil. The lobster's flesh secretes its own shell - the virtual as such becomes actual. Unless you also read the seemingly a-Deleuzian philosopher Emmanuel Levinas, you will read the lobster as a metaphor rather than a constituent of this veritable "globe." Levinas' ethical system is hinged on the infrequent but fundamental observation that Descartes' "discovery" of modern scientific reason is not taken at liberty. That is, 'I think, therefore I am' ('I am thinking, therefore I am being') can only announce the principle of universal doubt and its corollary mind-body split by fiat. For Descartes, the thought of infinity perforce "takes place" within us - there is no will to doubt in Descartes. History is the infinite encasing of time itself; it is only a metaphor for the indeterminacy - not a Marxian "anarchy of exchange" - modern and contemporary USAmerican poetics have inherited as the "promise of infinite determination" (Deleuze, Kant's Critical Philosophy). They used to call it "ambiguity," and its types. For one, you have the weird nostalgia of the Poundian epic. But another way the USAmerican poem includes history is via (dare we say) organic form, as the lobster secretes its shell. But it is another thing entirely (osmosis maybe, but not, in Guattari's word, "chaosmosis") when ...the drama is wholly subjective stone knowing the form which the carver imparts it the stone knows the form (The Cantos 450) Ethical self-evidence is metaphysical fascism. PART ONE: They eat them for dinner. If all this supposedly heady quipping seems to you out of place in a review essay on Lorenzo Thomas' recent work, I won't apologize. There are few other ways to return the generosity of a poem like "Dangerous Doubts." The mind invents its own inadequacies But not the power to erase illusion That schemes and wholesome dreams Can become actual despite the truth That thoughts invest themselves in flesh And direct motion (Dancing on Main Street 119) This from the man who, in the 2003 "Introduction" to the expanded edition of his first major collection Chances Are Few, wrote: This modern world--what T.S. Eliot taught us to call "our civilization"--began in 1492 with a series of cultural collisions that continue to reverberate. We've had five hundred grim years of progress: a kaleidoscope of ancient fears and hatreds, bright visions and hopeful dreams, justifiable suspicions and ordinary greed, constantly recycled as history becomes everyday life and vice versa. (vii) Justifiable suspicions are not the unique providence of the benignly reasonable subject whose danger begins when the thought (unthinkable) of the infinite takes place within her / him. But what "civilization"--what "our"--seeps through the many salvos from Vietnam, the Civil Rights Movement (see also Thomas' epic The Bathers), and the mundane "career" vicissitudes of a Panamanian in Texas' "liquid city"? That you have 30,000 shots at immortality But only one you dare not miss at being rich Or at least escape the nag of destitution (Dancing on Main Street 119) A vetran of the latter New York School scene (see The Angel Hair Anthology), Thomas' lists are several times less "sophisticated" than a Ted Berrigan. As the listing continues, I'm mostly taken with the bravery this approach demonstrates--especially in face of what used to be known as "subject matter." Last I saw such bravery it was heroism (Whitman, Sandburg, Baraka). Thomas' piece on the Umbra Workshop school (Extraordinary Measures: Afrocentric Modernism and Twentieth-Century American Poetry 118-144) is informative here. That maybe exercise shows on TV Are really harmful That sound bodies just Amplify our empty minds That platitudes contain a grain of wisdom And fortune's a rush hour train that doesn't wait The limits of human invention = organic form. So it allows these things to replace eternity. What else? To really live means needing other people That whatever that means love Could conquer hate Love and hate are beside the point when the real escapes the "means." It's not just that is an elegy, but it's steeped in the anticipation of the elegy's raison d'être in this, "our civilization." USA TODAY: the migrating quagmire / '5 Million Tsunami Survivors Lack Food & Water' / Rumsfeld to Go / He Can'na Make It Cohere. PART TWO: He Can'na. Thomas is that rare critic / literary historian who takes the evaluative function of criticism seriously, not as self-evident, but as a question of literary production (as opposed to disinterested reflection). There is a singular lack of hubris in his project - reading his work is to witness the self-conscious entrance of one man's labor into historical, indeed "interesting times." I'll just excerpt one short passage from Extraordinary Measures, Thomas' new scholarly tome, by way of commenting on his economy in that expository mode, but moreso his thoroughgoing responsibility to critical self-reflection within the construction of historical categories / narratives. I have been an avid reader of Amiri Baraka's work for many years and have never found a truer summation of his historical centrality than this one: Many are not always convinced by his notion of science. For good and bad reasons. Baraka, as critic Ezekiel Mphalele (otherwise one of our most alert readers) has consistently failed to understand, is best as a poet of intense personal reflection, which is exactly why he always appears to us in the prophet's sackcloth of social activism. Literally, he does not have time to be himself. But were he given the time, who (as he himself eloquently ponders in his poems) would that self be? In this way he speaks to us in our lostness, striving, and misery, and we are habituated now to the eager anticipation of his own subsequent interpretations of each current guise. For all his complexity, however, Baraka's work reveals a fundamental consistency. (159) The lobster's gotten loose. Thomas, as central (if not as high-profile) to the history of "Afro-Centric Modernism" as Baraka, ranges his account from Fenton Johnson to Harryette Mullen, with the Umbra school sharing elbow room with Baraka's return to Newark in 1966. Ishmael Reed and Thomas are seen making a pilgrimage there to indulge in Newark's acidic nightlife, all of a Christmas Eve. Thomas gives testimony so much due, perfectly integrating memoir and history, with critical treatment. As such, he makes his critique possible and his deceptively simple apostrophic address (in Dancing on Main Street) plausible. And I get wise to it, this civilized funk. It wriggles out between the two books as a frontier defines itself by the here and there it must touch. This makes him a prototypical but atypically better critic in the now sadly clogged cultural studies vein. Another way of saying this is to say that Thomas has a penchant for developing true questions out of his material--history, experience, language. He never takes the validity of those questions for granted. Instead, he works them like a George Clinton bassline, over and over until they prove their mettle, which saves him from sycophancy and solipsism. The conditions of the real are not far from the conditions of the true--and that's what lends the whole adventure its palpable suspense. From Dancing on Main Street, "Thinking in Words" is a good example to these ears. There is an account of what seems to be a gathering of French philosophers, Thinking in strong but well-scrubbed Germanic Words adopted by romantic conversation Knowledge of their natural parents lost To counterfeit a long melodious decay We might call Art or serious concern (87) Then the mingling scents of a bar-b-qued beef sandwich and "piss"--and a litany of synaesthetic linguistic triggers befalls our narrator, an alienated young ethicist on a street corner (perhaps my own beloved Mission District): "Freedom fighter, weirdo, wino..." So the distinction can be made Between bar-b-qued felons And napalmed bystanders We need to be thinking in words To tell our hearts and minds Which way to flutter (88) PART THREE: He flutta' (or, synethsis) / Shell-shock / I am thinking, therefore I am being. --- Patrick F. Durgin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:52:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: $40 Billion More In Security Money Required For 2012 Olympics Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press $40 Billion More In Security Money Required For 2012 Olympics: "Thank God. It Was Only The Fodder That Take Public Transport," Said A Relieved Blair.: G-8 Leaders Prepare To Incubate Millions More Terrorists With Their 'Policies': "As Long As Those Fuckers Can't Get At Me, What The Shit Do I Care," Bush Overheard Telling Blair At Gathering Of Stooges For International Banks And Corporations.: Blasts Conveniently Timed, Poorly Aimed, Say Most Of World's People: "With Big Name Fuckers So Close Why Couldn't Bombers Have Taken Them Out And Saved The World This Endless Grief," Those Polled Say: London Olympics To Mark 15th Year of War In Iraq, Against Terrorism: War In Iraq Declared An Olympic Sport: "History Records That Our Intention At These G-8 Conferences Is To Hurt People. To Hurt Them Really Bad. And To Slaughter As Many Of Them As Possible," Said U.S. Trade Representative Buckley 'Scooter' Welkes IV By MUDDIN CRUDSLINGER They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 19:18:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Question from Kazim Ali In-Reply-To: <000a01c483d1$9108e7e0$210110ac@Winxp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Leslie How are you doing? Are you at Bard College again this summer? Call me if you would like to come down to Beacon again (845-831-3397). I'm writing to you about O Books. I wonder if you would like to see the manuscript of my second novel "The Secret Room: A String Quartet." The novel is actually written in musical lines--each of 4 characters taking the role of one of the instruments in a string quartet. Each character has a different font, but there also handwritten musical bars and clefs to allow the eye to follow more easily. The reader will perhaps read a single instrument (character) or could try to read simultaneously. There are shorter sections of the novel written in prose paragraphs. The four characters (Sonia, a violinist; Jaffar, a yoga teacher; Jody, a stay at home mom; and Pratap, an office worker) do not merely interact physically, but also in history, sometimes metaphorically (Jody and Sonia never meet--but Jody listens to a concern of Sonia's on the radio--a concert Pratap is at). Anyhow, it is a little conceptually experimental--to my mind strictly a novel, strictly prose--but hard to get market-driven publishers to think like this. Hence my thinking of approaching small presses-- If you like I can send the full manuscript to you (it is around 215 pages). Hope you are well, Kazim Ali __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 19:25:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Apologies for my earlier mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi folks, sorry--a letter meant only for Leslie Scalapino went to everyone. But if you did read, then you know what my new novel is about! WAR IS OVER (if you want it) Kazim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:29:33 -0400 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: on Lorenzo Thomas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great essay, Patrick. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Durgin Sent: Jul 7, 2005 8:14 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: on Lorenzo Thomas The following was commissioned by David Buuck, editor and publisher of the journal Tripwire. I figured it'd make a suitable contribution to the tributes and other remarks here. The Cartesian Funk on the Recent Work of Lorenzo Thomas, Poet. Writing poems involves that desperate attempt to pass through sophistication into wisdom. --Lorenzo Thomas, introduction to Chances Are Few: Expanded Second Edition, 2003 In French philosophers Gilles Deleuze & F=E9lix Guattari's third of A Thousand Plateaus, a lobster becomes an exemplar of and persona for the history of philosophy. Simultaneously, it stands for geo-political "globalization" - neo-colonialism's intrinsic foil. The lobster's flesh secretes its own shell - the virtual as such becomes actual. Unless you also read the seemingly a-Deleuzian philosopher Emmanuel Levinas, you will read the lobster as a metaphor rather than a constituent of this veritable "globe." Levinas' ethical system is hinged on the infrequent but fundamental observation that Descartes' "discovery" of modern scientific reason is not taken at liberty. That is, 'I think, therefore I am' ('I am thinking, therefore I am being') can only announce the principle of universal doubt and its corollary mind-body split by fiat. For Descartes, the thought of infinity perforce "takes place" within us - there is no will to doubt in Descartes. History is the infinite encasing of time itself; it is only a metaphor for the indeterminacy - not a Marxian "anarchy of exchange" - modern and contemporary USAmerican poetics have inherited as the "promise of infinite determination" (Deleuze, Kant's Critical Philosophy). They used to call it "ambiguity," and its types. For one, you have the weird nostalgia of the Poundian epic. But another way the USAmerican poem includes history is via (dare we say) organic form, as the lobster secretes its shell. But it is another thing entirely (osmosis maybe, but not, in Guattari's word, "chaosmosis") when ...the drama is wholly subjective stone knowing the form which the carver imparts it the stone knows the form (The Cantos 450) Ethical self-evidence is metaphysical fascism. PART ONE: They eat them for dinner. If all this supposedly heady quipping seems to you out of place in a review essay on Lorenzo Thomas' recent work, I won't apologize. There are few other ways to return the generosity of a poem like "Dangerous Doubts." The mind invents its own inadequacies But not the power to erase illusion That schemes and wholesome dreams Can become actual despite the truth That thoughts invest themselves in flesh And direct motion (Dancing on Main Street 119) This from the man who, in the 2003 "Introduction" to the expanded edition of his first major collection Chances Are Few, wrote: This modern world--what T.S. Eliot taught us to call "our civilization"--began in 1492 with a series of cultural collisions that continue to reverberate. We've had five hundred grim years of progress: a kaleidoscope of ancient fears and hatreds, bright visions and hopeful dreams, justifiable suspicions and ordinary greed, constantly recycled as history becomes everyday life and vice versa. (vii) Justifiable suspicions are not the unique providence of the benignly reasonable subject whose danger begins when the thought (unthinkable) of the infinite takes place within her / him. But what "civilization"--what "our"--seeps through the many salvos from Vietnam, the Civil Rights Movement (see also Thomas' epic The Bathers), and the mundane "career" vicissitudes of a Panamanian in Texas' "liquid city"? That you have 30,000 shots at immortality But only one you dare not miss at being rich Or at least escape the nag of destitution (Dancing on Main Street 119) A vetran of the latter New York School scene (see The Angel Hair Anthology), Thomas' lists are several times less "sophisticated" than a Ted Berrigan. As the listing continues, I'm mostly taken with the bravery this approach demonstrates--especially in face of what used to be known as "subject matter." Last I saw such bravery it was heroism (Whitman, Sandburg, Baraka). Thomas' piece on the Umbra Workshop school (Extraordinary Measures: Afrocentric Modernism and Twentieth-Century American Poetry 118-144) is informative here. That maybe exercise shows on TV Are really harmful That sound bodies just Amplify our empty minds That platitudes contain a grain of wisdom And fortune's a rush hour train that doesn't wait The limits of human invention =3D organic form. So it allows these things to replace eternity. What else? To really live means needing other people That whatever that means love Could conquer hate Love and hate are beside the point when the real escapes the "means." It's not just that is an elegy, but it's steeped in the anticipation of the elegy's raison d'=EAtre in this, "our civilization." USA TODAY: the migrating quagmire / '5 Million Tsunami Survivors Lack Food & Water' / Rumsfeld to Go / He Can'na Make It Cohere. PART TWO: He Can'na. Thomas is that rare critic / literary historian who takes the evaluative function of criticism seriously, not as self-evident, but as a question of literary production (as opposed to disinterested reflection). There is a singular lack of hubris in his project - reading his work is to witness the self-conscious entrance of one man's labor into historical, indeed "interesting times." I'll just excerpt one short passage from Extraordinary Measures, Thomas' new scholarly tome, by way of commenting on his economy in that expository mode, but moreso his thoroughgoing responsibility to critical self-reflection within the construction of historical categories / narratives. I have been an avid reader of Amiri Baraka's work for many years and have never found a truer summation of his historical centrality than this one: Many are not always convinced by his notion of science. For good and bad reasons. Baraka, as critic Ezekiel Mphalele (otherwise one of our most alert readers) has consistently failed to understand, is best as a poet of intense personal reflection, which is exactly why he always appears to us in the prophet's sackcloth of social activism. Literally, he does not have time to be himself. But were he given the time, who (as he himself eloquently ponders in his poems) would that self be? In this way he speaks to us in our lostness, striving, and misery, and we are habituated now to the eager anticipation of his own subsequent interpretations of each current guise. For all his complexity, however, Baraka's work reveals a fundamental consistency. (159) The lobster's gotten loose. Thomas, as central (if not as high-profile) to the history of "Afro-Centric Modernism" as Baraka, ranges his account from Fenton Johnson to Harryette Mullen, with the Umbra school sharing elbow room with Baraka's return to Newark in 1966. Ishmael Reed and Thomas are seen making a pilgrimage there to indulge in Newark's acidic nightlife, all of a Christmas Eve. Thomas gives testimony so much due, perfectly integrating memoir and history, with critical treatment. As such, he makes his critique possible and his deceptively simple apostrophic address (in Dancing on Main Street) plausible. And I get wise to it, this civilized funk. It wriggles out between the two books as a frontier defines itself by the here and there it must touch. This makes him a prototypical but atypically better critic in the now sadly clogged cultural studies vein. Another way of saying this is to say that Thomas has a penchant for developing true questions out of his material--history, experience, language. He never takes the validity of those questions for granted. Instead, he works them like a George Clinton bassline, over and over until they prove their mettle, which saves him from sycophancy and solipsism. The conditions of the real are not far from the conditions of the true--and that's what lends the whole adventure its palpable suspense. From Dancing on Main Street, "Thinking in Words" is a good example to these ears. There is an account of what seems to be a gathering of French philosophers, Thinking in strong but well-scrubbed Germanic Words adopted by romantic conversation Knowledge of their natural parents lost To counterfeit a long melodious decay We might call Art or serious concern (87) Then the mingling scents of a bar-b-qued beef sandwich and "piss"--and a litany of synaesthetic linguistic triggers befalls our narrator, an alienated young ethicist on a street corner (perhaps my own beloved Mission District): "Freedom fighter, weirdo, wino..." So the distinction can be made Between bar-b-qued felons And napalmed bystanders We need to be thinking in words To tell our hearts and minds Which way to flutter (88) PART THREE: He flutta' (or, synethsis) / Shell-shock / I am thinking, therefore I am being. --- Patrick F. Durgin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 22:45:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lanny Quarles Subject: Latest on Phaneronoemikon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.hevanet.com/solipsis/blogger/index.html RECENT POSTS Has anyone ever noticed .. linear arrangement 16 linear arrangement 15 NITRITE INHALENT DEFECTS linear arrangement 14 NUNPETH ZZSS episeen prounons Worthless Narrativity [dancing with the stars] Nulla Dies Sine Linea Barye linear arrangement 13 mint noose wasting: femur flute asphyxiation face Sir Noel of Firefly Hill linear arrangement 12 Cudjoe's Cave-talk OMPHALOS: Calvin Klein Modification linear arrangement 11 am nighotic pm birdy hilltop We drink granny BUCUOWENTIBUDA DVD REVIEW xybmok, a closed school solemn segub trans. of a page from Bibergeil linear arrangement 10 dry wooden club We are in Paris from June 26 through June 30th. "It Ain['t] nothin'" One Experience Moonmad: Nothing Diffuse or Baconian The Strange Logic whereby the Refugees from the Beetle Ovens... 3 Songs Pascal's Neurosis as Hobbyhorse Can-Can double knit exu dolls linear arrangement 9 thecontrol buttons strange news from virginia away from the glade Caves: Bobby Best and Michael Yaateh focused mainly on flukes in Peconic Bay Lad Lit Unconscious Ulutopia mer free glue horse stuck together bad The Semiochemicals of Symmetrischema tangolias "Technology creates meaning." [enigmatic protuberances]... Dead Textes Brut versus the Wounded Urns vlv/boil view of the Tungurahua plume... More on Chladni ASCIICHLADNI http://www.hevanet.com/solipsis/blogger/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:17:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: About the Poetics List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tod, et alles, The rules against: "...this is the most unkindest cut of all..." came = after the fact of the creative writing. Rules are made for following, unless: ignoring, destroying, abhorring = them harms no one but yourself, in which case, screw the rules! In my opinion, more often than we perhaps care to recognize, creative = souls run rough-shod over rules, ignoring them right and left no matter = who posted the edict. And they do that not out of disrespect for rules = but rather because they find rules restrict the creative process they = are driven to practice, and their drive to create is greater than their = drive to conform. I suspect if one were to post on POETICS a poem that broke new ground in = either presentation, or form or metrical stanzaic pattern, or if one = wrote a poem that excited even the nearly dead intellects such as I by = either its wit or its originality, no one of the moderators, editors, = authorities on the list would dare excommunicate the creator of such = works.=20 Here though is the essence of the list to date: Po'ms tomes silence brilliance xfe fex so paints the saints But, rules aside, perhaps the real problem with the list is not the = edict banning poetry; rather it is the failure of the moderators/editors = on the list to realize that there can be no discussion of poetics and = poetry without poetry itself...how sad. =20 Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michael Tod Edgerton=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: Re: About the Poetics List Dan, you're making the whole issue of "published" much more = complicated than it actually is. No self-published works would be an = acceptable rule to me, but so would including self-published works by = authors other than oneself. Leaves of Grass, obviously, has been = published and republished by many other people than Walt for a long = time. I don't believe that it does happen a lot that editors of highly = respected presses publish their own books. There are a few exceptions, = like Scalapino, who published Crowd and not evening or light through her = O Books. If it's a respected press, then include it. If you think it's = an amazing work that someone unfortunately had to publish themselves, = include it. Rules are guidelines, not absolutes, and people always take = liberties. I've definitely seen poems on this list, as it is. Quote from = blogs--why not? Quote from online galleries and journals that include = electronic, multimedia, and hybrid works. Now just how much is excluded? = Any parameters will necessarily exclude something, but some limits are necessary. I don't = think it's as complicated as you find it to be, I don't personally find = the issue of what constitututes "published" all that interesting or = complex, rather a bit tedious. It really is a matter of common sense. = Your splitting hairs with nothing more at stake than whether you can = "officially" quote a certain poem on this list that might be excluded = from the rules. But I do agree with you that it seems odd (at best) for a poetics list = to institute a complete moratorium on the inclusion of poems... Maybe the old 50 posts per day limit would work again, though. Does = anyone know why this was abandoned originally? I suppose I can imagine = that, with around 10000 participants, many people might never get to the = head of the line, and that might be more of a problem. So, yes, how 'bout changing the rules a bit? Best, Tod Dan Waber > wrote: Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > As someone relatively new to the list, I can say without reservation > that I do not want my e-mail inundated with endless streams of bad > poetry. Who does? I'm not entirely convinced that was the motivation behind going poemless, but even if it was, it seems ill-advised for the solution to be, "all right then, NO poems at all". But, this is a very American response, now that I think of it. We like the easy solution of eliminating the good with the bad in the name of saving us from the bad. The examples are legion. > Published poems can be referenced, links cut and pasted, in > the course of a discussion of specific poems. I, personally, > however, would be in favor of allowing the citation of published > poems in whole or part, but not unpublished. I'm curious, how would you define "published"? Does self-publishing count (Leaves of Grass)? What if you're a highly respected press and you publish a manuscript of your own through your own press (this happens a lot)? How about if it's on a blog (the choices are too many to pick this early)? How about in the comments of a blog? What about posted to a series of listservs reaching a total number of people greater than the circulation of Poetry (Alan Sondheim, August Highland, Lanny Quarles, mez, etc)? What constitutes the publishing of a piece of hypermedia (Jim Andrews)? Do we only talk about things published by Seagate? What about a poet who declaims all publication entirely (Jesse Taylor for the 20 years up until this week)? The welcome message for the Poetics list says that posting to this list is itself considered by the Editorial Board as a form of publication. I can't imagine a criteria for what would legitimately constitute "published" that wouldn't also exclude at least as much vital work as it includes. Particularly now, in this very exciting time of the digital dancing with literature, on a digitally facilitated list, the kind of work this list's welcome message says its open to is often (but certainly not exclusively) precisely the kind of work that is non-publishable, or apublished, or is in the act of birthing a whole new definition of what published means. Even if a workable definition could be found, I think a list that claims to be open to the impossible in theory, but in practice only allows the citation of the published is untenable. I also think the notion of what constitutes "published" today is one of the most exciting questions in all of literature. I am the type of person who doesn't really do very well at talking about that question. I am pretty good, however, at thinking of different ways to say "well, how about this!?" And I think it's essential to the dialog to include people of both kinds. Without the former, the discussion will probably never really happen in any kind of structured way, and without the latter, the discussion would never have come up in the first place because there would have been no deviation from the norm anyway. Lively discussion requires both sides. > I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to discuss > experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become a > forum for "open mic" publication. Once word got out, the list would > really be ruined. Not really. The list was an open mic for a decade and the simple measures of limiting individuals to 2 posts per day and the entire list to 50 posts per day was effective at stopping the "if no one minds, I'll just go ahead and read a dozen more" syndrome. And I think there is no better way to say you're NOT interested in the new and emerging, the experimental and the impossible, than to say you've given up on open readings. Yeah, they can be painfully bad sometimes. But they are also sometimes brilliant, engaging, and instructive in the art of being human. > Discussing "received forms" does not refer to workshopping or > otherwise discussing poems received from listserv participants, but > to interrogating the uses and relevance of traditional, "closed" > forms like the sestina or pantoum in the contemporary > cultural/political context. So, yes, "recieved" does mean something > completely different than what you read it to mean. Cool, I was unfamiliar with that usage, thank you. > It would be nice to have more engaged, rigorous discussions and > debates than I've seen so far, but wouldn't it be a better strategy > to start one than to try to critique the editorial statement/welcome > message Absolutely this would be better. And this is precisely why I suggested that the Editorial Board do some of that discussion starting. Because in an environment where there is this much control coming from the top, you don't find a lot of people stepping up to test out whether any given topic is going to end up causing a rule change on them. It may be of interest to note here that I've had far more back channel responses of support than total responses on the list. Why would that be? Because people are more comfortable with it. And if the goal here is to encourage discussion, that's a failure. And, actually, I believe have started a more engaged, rigorous discussion and debate. I've even mentioned published poems in it. > (I suppose this applies to me, here, now, equally...maybe > I'll give that a try in the morning...)? I'm sure the exchange of > original work among a small group of highly talented and intelligent > participants must have been exciting and invigorating in its time, > and I'm pissed I missed out. However, this list is not that one; > this list is far too big to manage that, I think, so I understand > the need for setting parameters. But perhaps they could be revised > to allow the inclusion of already published works in support of > arguments made in expository prose; I see no harm in that. I see no harm either. If that's the direction they want to go, great. That's why I offered as suggestion #1 that the welcome message be reworded to more accurately reflect the reality of the situation. If the list is too big (though I don't think it is), and the Editorial Board wants to limit discussion to works that are only as impossible as can be managed within the confines of a print publication produced by a known and reputable press, they should say so. Because wearing the cape of Defender of the Impossible when you don't have the rest of the suit on, makes you look a little underdressed when you fly over the local neighborhoods. I'm not saying this goal/approach has no or even less value than any other approach. I'm saying that organizational groupings of all kinds have a tendency to attract the kind of people they say they want. I think what is wanted here has necessarily evolved over the years, and the welcome message has not evolved gracefully along with it. I'm a poet, so I want the words to be right. Dan There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding. - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:57:12 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Marcacci Subject: Re: About the Poetics List In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit or simply a failure of the subscribers... in the context of some discussion, i didn't think a poem or a creative response was disallowed... if their attempts to maintain the list kill it, then they will learn something... if that's what will happen... if it goes on in a new direction, then that's what will happen... it seems like there are plenty of splinter groups out there to accommodate folks, which is one drawback to this medium... -- Bob Marcacci > From: alexander saliby > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:17:12 -0700 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: About the Poetics List > > ...perhaps the real problem with the list is not the edict > banning poetry; rather it is the failure of the moderators/editors on the list > to realize that there can be no discussion of poetics and poetry without > poetry itself... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 04:28:57 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Usoko... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the sushi chef watches the baseball sound off..... uni...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 05:20:05 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Usoko... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit masturbatin 's like eatin' cool whip... uni...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:43:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Gustaf Sobin Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed The news just in that poet Gustaf Sobin died yesterday. I've posted a poem of his & a text on his work by me on my NOMADICS blog. Pierre ================================================= "Play what you don't know" -- Sun Ra ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202-1310 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ blog:http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 09:01:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Re: Question from Kazim Ali MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kazim and others - I'm currently reading David Mitchell's CLOUD ATLAS - a remarkable musical arrangement of story/characters, overlapping themes. Recommended. Best, Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 08:25:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Raphael Israel Subject: =?utf-8?B?InRoaXM=?= is =?utf-8?B?RnJpZGF5Ig==?= (boomerang poem) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Poeticsists -- long time no e. Seeing hints of brouhaha about publishing / not publishing on linst / not on list, inclines me to publish on list. Hence this. But with poetics notation. For a long time occasionally, & lately more freaquently, I've employed an 8-line form which I dub the "boomerang poem" (due to the return of the 1st line as the final line). The form's antecedent is found in classical Chinese poetry. I've only seen a few examples in translation, but when I worked in the East Asiatic Library at UC Berkeley (about 25 years ago), wandering the stacks, I found at least one volume that seemed to be entirely in boomerang form, and sometimes noted other poems occasionally so. Here's an example of what I'm doing with this in English. In this case (and usually, and classically in Chinese, rhyme-scheme is: AB AB BA BA. [ The Basho reference: he'd stayed at an inn where two prostitutes, who were on a pilgrimage, were in a nearby room and he heard their conversation through the wall. He jotted a haiku saying that that night, both the moon and clover slept under the same roof (or something like that). ] cheers, david / / / "this is Friday" (boomerang poem) It's 9 a.m. who am I? this is Friday it seems the rain has ceased the fruitflies hover is this a what-day or is it a why-day? I read Basho's remark on moon & clover it seemed conceited anyway the lover of landscapes walks an endless world but my day has dawned with obligations still to cover it's 9 a.m. who am I? this is Friday d.i. / / / | david raphael israel | other shore dvd <> washington dc | davidi@wizard.net | http://www.othershore.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 09:46:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Raphael Israel Subject: Ni Zan and Usoku Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Catching just a strand of this argument. The utterance here -- > > "visual haiku" invented > > by Scott Helms and displayed on Geof Huth's > site--I > > offer the word > > Usoku from the Japanese Uso--meaning false, and > > ku--line or inscription. > > Usoku, because of course none of these forms of > > writing or art have > > anything to do with haiku. Jess calls to mind the story of Ni Zan (Ni Tsan in older transliteration style), painter/poet of Yuan Dynasty China, whose impromptu bamboo (painted on a friend's wall, I think) were criticized for their lack of resemblance to bamboo. "Yes," said Ni, "but to achieve a complete lack of resemblance -- that's really not so easy!" cheers, d.i. | david raphael israel | other shore dvd <> washington dc | davidi@wizard.net | http://www.othershore.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 01:10:29 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Eileen Tabios' Songs of the Colon Now Up at Ahadada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Eileen Tabios' new on-line chapbook Songs of the Colon is available for down-load from www.sendecki.com/ahadada. Love ya, Jess ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:35:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: IMPROVISATIONS IS NOW IN PRINT UPDATE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Several days after I posted the notice that IMPROVISATIONS is in print, = I discovered that the book's distribution wasn't in place and that the = special pre-publication offer from Barnes and Noble.com had been = removed.=20 Until the distribution issues have been resolved, I offering direct = ordering at a price comparable to Barnes and Noble's pre-publication = discount.=20 If you would like to purchase a copy of IMPROVISATIONS, please send a = check for $35 to=20 Vernon Frazer 132 Woodycrest Drive East Hartford, CT 06118=20 The offer will be in effect until the book becomes available online. Thank you for your support. Sincerely, Vernon Frazer Beneath the Underground Books is proud to announce the July 2005 release = of Vernon Frazer's IMPROVISATIONS. Frazer's innovative and critically = acclaimed longpoem, sections of which previously appeared in book = format, is available for the first time in its completed form.=20 Vernon Frazer's relentless pursuit of truth is inspiring. Improvisations = commands our attention. It is difficult to recognize a landmark work in = a landscape of hype and craftsmanship, but Frazer's embrace and = reconciliation of the conflicts between poetry and language result in a = musical and visual harmony that other poets have long neglected or = sought with less success. Improvisations is a work to learn from and to = praise without hesitation.=20 - Michael Rothenberg Through its sectional appearances Improvisations has consistently = offered its readers a dizzying flight across textual geographies and = social aporia. Now we can encounter and engage its full monumentality as = a vast text whose verbal excess and vertiginous typographic variations = mark a stunning moment in the history of gestural poetics. It is a true = comment on what it is to not only live modernity but to actively engage = it. - Steve McCaffery Improvisations will take its place in the modernist, postmodernist and = alternative pantheon of masterpieces. Vernon Frazer presents us with a = 'new physics' of poetic structure. It is not contingent upon any = preconceptions of what poetry 'has been' or 'should be'. Its roots are = far reaching and ubiquitously move rhizomically beneath the surface of = the poetic page. It is there that Improvisations manifests its = multi-dimensional, polyphonic, nonlocal music-of-the-spheres resonances, = echoing down cerebral corridors and unfolding to the reader a = synergistically limitless semantically rich poetic realm.=20 - Ric Carfagna |'|'|' one-one rhythm intensity emergent language & new not form of bop = prosody < the moments the heavy breathing dragging language where it = won't speak but has to > this exciting brilliant igneous volcanism of = insistent world glossolalia harnessed to < what the world said when the = word spoke > you get my DRIFT "spot-time" Wittgenstein < about virtual = language is about virtual particles < what the vacuum speaks > of this = masterpiece: dipping in, constructs of solitons, shore-flecked language = returning "all different" < did anyone write this < sure a machine = DIDN'T "I am sure if language could speak, this is what it would say" > = the _topography_ of language < Said of a word or mineral that solidified = from molten or partly molten material, i.e. from magma; also, applied to = processes leading to, related to, or resulting from the formation of = such words. > shards of CONTINUUM language degree & incessant < you can = get lost in The Big Sky < WHATEVER YOU do READ THIS BOOK > & knot form - Alan Sondheim ISBN 0-9745270-1-7 704 pages = 8.5 x 11" $45.00 Available from Baker and Taylor Books, The Book House, Inc, and your = favorite online bookseller. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:19:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Gottlieb Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 3 Jul 2005 to 4 Jul 2005 (#2005-184) In-Reply-To: <200507050400.j6540bYX009749@ylpvm31.prodigy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael Gottlieb and Caroline Bergvall Reading in Gt. Barrington, MA Michael Gottlieb and Caroline Bergvall reading at the Geoffrey Young Gallery 43 Railroad St. Gt. Barrington, MA Saturday, July 9 at 5:30 pm Hope you can make it! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:26:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Lewis MacAdams Reading Tuesday July 12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LOS ANGELES PUBLIC LIBRARY and the LIBRARY FOUNDATION OF LOS ANGELES PRESENT =93ALOUD at Central Library=94 Lectures, Readings, Performances & Discussions July 12, Tuesday, 7 PM Lewis MacAdams =93The River, Book Three=94 World premiere of MacAdams=92 The River, Book Three, a continuation of = his mini-epic about his life and work among the trash bags and red-wing blackbirds of the much-maligned Los Angeles River. About Lewis MacAdams: Poet, activist, journalist Lewis MacAdams is the author of a dozen books and tapes of poetry, and his poems have appeared in many anthologies over the last twenty-five years. =A0As a journalist, in the early 80=92s, he was the American = correspondent for the popular French magazine Actuel. From 1980 to 1982, he was the editor of WET, =93the Magazine of Gourmet Bathing and Beyond,=94 a = Los-Angeles-based, internationally-circulated bi-monthly of the avant-garde. Since the mid-80=92s he has been a contributing editor of the L.A. Weekly. He = writes regularly on culture and ecology for Rolling Stone, the L.A. Weekly, Men=92s Journal, L.A. Times, and Los Angeles Magazine. His book, Birth of the Cool: Beat, Bebop and the American Avant Garde was published in 2001. He is currently writing a biography of Rolling Stone founder Jann Wenner, which will be published in 2006. =A0In 1985, he founded Friends of The Los Angeles River, a =9340 year = art work=94 to bring the Los Angeles River back to life. In the years since, FoLAR has become the River=92s most important and influential advocate. Two of its current major goals are to create a Los Angeles River Conservancy to oversee restoration of the river, and a River Watch program to improve the River=92s water quality and target polluters. In 1991, MacAdams received the San Fernando Valley Audubon Society=92s annual Conservation Award. =A0A new collection of poems, The River: Books One, Two & Three, (published by Blue Press) takes the Los Angeles River as its metaphor, weaving the story and song of the poet, activist and journalist as these three roles form the confluence which is the man. Copies of the book will be available at the reading. Reservations ALOUD: www.aloudla.org or (213) 228-7025 ALOUD programs are FREE, unless otherwise noted. Seating is limited and reservations are strongly recommended for all lectures and performances. For programs that are full, stand-by tickets will be available at the door, in person only, beginning one hour prior to the program. Programs are subject to change. A book signing follows the program. Books are available for purchase on-site at the program, courtesy of the Library Store. To Support the Los Angeles Public Library, call (213) 228-7500 or visit www.lfla.org. CENTRAL LIBRARY * MARK TAPER AUDITORIUM Fifth & Flower Streets, Downtown Los Angeles Parking: 524 =A0S. Flower St. Garage $7 maximum weekdays after 3 p.m. and $1 all day Saturday and Sunday with Los Angeles Public Library card validation. Parking validations are only honored during regular library hours. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:24:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: maxpaul@SFSU.EDU Subject: Re: Gustaf Sobin In-Reply-To: <1ED40C1C-EA47-4B0F-BC1F-A5493540F9C6@albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Pierre. This is terrible news (in a series of such). Do you know the cause? Maxine Quoting Pierre Joris : > The news just in that poet Gustaf Sobin died yesterday. > > I've posted a poem of his & a text on his work by me on my NOMADICS > blog. > > Pierre > > ================================================= > "Play what you don't know" -- Sun Ra > ================================================= > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202-1310 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 85 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ > blog:http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ > ================================================= > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:27:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: maxpaul@SFSU.EDU Subject: Re: Gustaf Sobin Comments: cc: joris@albany.edu In-Reply-To: <1120847084.42cec4ecd78a3@webmail.sfsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry. I meant to backchannel. MC Quoting maxpaul@sfsu.edu: > Hi, Pierre. This is terrible news (in a series of such). Do you know the > cause? Maxine > > Quoting Pierre Joris : > > > The news just in that poet Gustaf Sobin died yesterday. > > > > I've posted a poem of his & a text on his work by me on my NOMADICS > > blog. > > > > Pierre > > > > ================================================= > > "Play what you don't know" -- Sun Ra > > ================================================= > > Pierre Joris > > 244 Elm Street > > Albany NY 12202-1310 > > h: 518 426 0433 > > c: 518 225 7123 > > o: 518 442 40 85 > > email: joris@albany.edu > > http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ > > blog:http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ > > ================================================= > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 15:44:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Poet Warrior PR Comments: To: rsillima@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps, one, a question: Is this site sanctioned by ny of the branches of the armed forces (say, marines), which are officially linked to it? Is there any connecton between this and Gioia's pet project? Gerald S. still savoring the line bout the "cripple" in the one poem on the site... > No comment needed > -- Ron Silliman > > > > America Supports You: Web Site Will Pay Tribute to Poet Warriors > By Terri Lukach > American Forces Press Service > > WASHINGTON, July 6, 2005 - Pfc. Jamie A. Goldstein so touched Kristin > Johnson with his poem about the eagerness of soldiers in training to > fight for their country that she dedicated a Web site to sharing his > poems and the stories of other poet warriors. > > "I was just blown away by this wonderful poem," Johnson said. "The > voice he puts to the military is so incredible." > > Johnson said Goldstein's poem inspired her to showcase his words and > those of others like him. "The men and women of our armed forces are > bright, intelligent and committed - especially those serving now in > Afghanistan and Iraq," Johnson said. "They are doing something with > their lives and for other people. They are expressing their passion, > their dreams and their commitment to freedom. And I am passionate > about giving them a voice," she said. > > Goldstein is attached to the Army's 2nd Battalion, 58th Infantry > Division, and is awaiting deployment to Iraq. His poem describes the > warrior ethos of a brotherhood training for war and eager to fight > for freedom. > > Johnson said she spoke with Goldstein's mother. "I talked to her > about the poem," Johnson said, "and was captivated by the need to > capture the history of these men and their families." The "Poet > Warrior Project" started in earnest this month, and Johnson said she > expects the site to be up and running in a few months. Goldstein's > poem will be its inaugural presentation. > > Johnson said that while people know of many poets from past wars, > from the nation's earliest days through World War II, not many poets > from recent wars are known. "Yet, these men are in touch with life at > its most fundamental level. To not express that, to lose it, is a > waste," she said. > > "This is the history record of a generation, a generation that is > doing something phenomenal. They are fighting a war against > terrorism, and none of us knows what it is like," she continued. "I > want to record their experiences, their feelings, and also that of > their families." > > Johnson is a playwright, a journalist, a Web writer, a screenwriter, > the author of three books, and the creator of an Internet site called > "Poems for You" which she launched in 2001. "Writing is my passion," > she said. "I have always written poetry - for special occasions like > birthdays or weddings. Finally, someone asked, 'Why don't you get > paid for it?'" > > She said poetry is a special, personal kind of writing. "There is > something about poetry that is mystical, beautiful," she said. "It > doesn't need to be for publication, but to express feelings. That's > what these soldiers are doing, and in such a beautiful way." > > Johnson said she was impressed by the depth, courage and eloquence of > Goldstein's poetry, and hopes to raise awareness of the many > wonderful things American troops are doing that go unreported. > > "I'm really thrilled to be able to support our troops in this way," > she said. > > When Eagles Learn to Fly by Pfc. Jamie A. Goldstein 2nd Battalion, > 58th Regiment Jan. 14, 2005 > > High atop a mountain, > The newest look around. > In their hearts they yearn to jump, > But to the nest, they're bound. > They see what's going on abroad, > And it consumes their thoughts. > There's shoes to fill and prey to kill, > And targets to be caught. > They may be mean, they may be angry, > Strong may be their drive. > But all of that means nothing, > 'Til these eagles learn to fly. > > They sacrifice their blood and sweat, > Earn feathers one-by-one, > And bleed and sweat they will, until > The day of training's done. > And at that time, they then reflect, > On things they all have learned, > And often re-read passages, > From pages that they've turned. > With contempt for their confinement, > They sing verses as they cry, > But that will all soon change > When these eagles learn to fly. > > Their blood is hot. Their eyes are cold. > Their hearts know not of fear. > They dream of wreaths of olive leaves, > But still clutch tight their spears. > Collectively they ponder, > The enemies they will try. > They've skills to hone and wings to grow, > But that, they know, takes time. > When the sand has fell completely, > And their wings spread true and wide, > They'll soar across the skyline > And the world shall hear them cry: > "Those who dare burn olive branches, > Those who force their way, > Those who seize what isn't theirs, > And dare refuse to pay, > Those who live by wicked values, > And dare to walk with pride, > Clear your throat and swallow, > For we have learned to fly!" > > "Those who dare crusade, > Against the name of what is just, > Those who dare raise arms, > By exploiting others' trust, > And expect a repercussion, > No more violent than a sigh, > Today you shall be proven wrong, > For we have learned to fly!" > "Those who dare condemn us, > For enjoying our free will, > > Those who feel our choices, > Make us wrong enough to kill, > Those who dare assault us, > Anywhere at any time - > You've met your final adversary; > For we have learned to fly!" > > Related Site: > Poet Warrior > http://www.poemsforyou.com/poetwarrior.html > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 16:41:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Irving Weiss Subject: Re: Usoku In-Reply-To: <20050707220923.10462.qmail@web51605.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT If not syllo- wd have to be syllai - hello Bob, greetings from the pp. of the Big Birthday Book. Irving On 7/7/05 6:09 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > --- Irving Weiss wrote: > >> > One way of doing haiku to dispel the fog of its >> > everywhereness is to do it >> > in: >> > >> > SYLLOGAIKU >> > >> > All men are mortal >> > Socrates and his young men >> > Where have they all gone >> > >> > Irving Weiss >> > >> > www.irvingweiss.net > > Thas a syllaku, yuh dope! > > Didn't know Jesse had taken his vendetta against the > use of "ku" to suggest haikuic tonalities to this high > court, for I don't visit it much. Apparently nobody > came to my defense! Woe. > > --Bob G. > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:46:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Usoku In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Irving Weiss wrote: > If not syllo- wd have to be syllai - hello Bob, > greetings from the pp. of > the Big Birthday Book. > > Irving You're right, Irving--should be SYLLOKU. Dunno how I wrote SYLLAKU--except that I've been recently pushing a new term of mine, the "syllabreak," for fragmenting a word in the middle of a syllable, something I'm claiming Cummings pioneered in, and possibly invented. Yeah, I just got my copy of the Big Birthday Book (for Richard Kostelanetz) and much liked your entry. Lots of other good things in it, too. Ooops, it's getting windy here. Gotta go hide. --Bob __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 16:00:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Poet Warrior PR In-Reply-To: <002101c583f5$63fc9150$e57ca918@yourae066c3a9b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's a pretty "wack" site, at least the originating one. The author charges for creating poetry for occasions, mostly weddings--read the effusive testimonials (unless you have great faith in this country's literacy). Now, this may border on being border-line, but who wouldn't mind an exquisite piece of language-y-ish writing to mark an occasion? I am not entirely not serious: does being "commissioned" as it were negate a poem's "authenticity" (again, this for lack of a better word, or better yet, simple put it sous-rature)?* And there is no doubt that those of us who find rituals necessary, but the old vows troublesome look for words to replace them. *(I fell upon the word commissioned since it is part of one my favorite phrases of Wordsworth's: "commissioned spirits".) --- Gerald Schwartz wrote: > Perhaps, one, a question: > > Is this site sanctioned by ny of the > branches of the armed forces (say, marines), > which are officially linked to it? > > Is there any connecton between this > and Gioia's pet project? > > Gerald S. > still savoring the line bout the "cripple" > in the one poem on the site... > > > No comment needed > > -- Ron Silliman > > > > > > > > America Supports You: Web Site Will Pay Tribute to > Poet Warriors > > By Terri Lukach > > American Forces Press Service > > > > WASHINGTON, July 6, 2005 - Pfc. Jamie A. Goldstein > so touched Kristin > > Johnson with his poem about the eagerness of > soldiers in training to > > fight for their country that she dedicated a Web > site to sharing his > > poems and the stories of other poet warriors. > > ____ I will discuss perfidy with scholars as if spurning kisses, I will sip the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love? - Lisa Robertson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 19:10:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? In-Reply-To: <200507040001.j6400Iuu230012@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey Chris You rhymed Giddy with City--Creeley wd have gotten a kick from that. Maybe you've hit on something--the aloneness expressed in his poems allowed a social freedom in his life. Who knows what anyone experiences, on the other hand? But of course we love him bec he is better able to say than most. How cd anyone be so "happily" & "sadly" & intellectually engaged simultaneously or nearly simultaneously? That was his genius, as well as his intuitive sense of sound--you know the sounds are right but can't dissect them as you can with say Yeats. I guess people--sometimes incl me--think poets are really writing abt themselves, novelists abt characters or people they know.Of course much more to say abt that & unsavoriness. (It was interesting to me that Eliot Weinberger in his wonderful anthology American Poetry since 1950 included Anne Sexton among the usual suspects--maybe bec she made the unsavory surreal in her wild Jesus poems.) Great to have this exchange with you--& I think we both have poems for Creeley in the forthcoming Wandering Hermit Review...? Anyway, I'm a fan. Hi & bye, Ruth On 7/3/05 9:24 PM, "Chris Stroffolino" wrote: > Hi Ruth--- > > hey, thanks for writing. i like what you say---especially about the > "dostoyevsky character" in the poems--the whole question of the often > solitary dark character in so many of the poems and how that might seem > "at odds" with how so many of us knew him socially.... > > Once I saw him at a panel discussion in Albany in 1995 > and he kept on making fun of the phrase (and stance), "wandered lonely as a > cloud" and I always thought that he, more than many poets, really > HAD TO remind himself to do that in order to be able to let go > and be so PRESENT with people. Also, in my copy of LIFE AND DEATH he simply > wrote the phrase "IN THE CITY!" and at first I thought he was quoting > something from one of his poems in that book, as many poets do when they > sign their books, but it turns out he was just GIDDY to be in NYC. > > What do I make of all this? Maybe he was able to wrestle so much of > the solitary alienated demon out in the act of writing and that allowed > him or helped him really appreciate people when he was actually WITH them, > and that back-and-forth is surely not unique to Creeley, but I love the > particular ways he went about navigating or "negotiating" that--(okay, not > very profound this.....Sorry...) > > the Dostoyevsky reference also brings up a more general point > about poetry---especially poetry that can be both, as you say, > "lyric and innovative"----Why is it that people are more inclined to > be JUDGEMENTAL when a lyric poet/persona explores some "unsavory" > aspects of the "self" than when a novelist or playwright creates > "characters"? > > I have my own theories about that, but I'll save it for later--- > For now, I just want to say I appreciate the fact that you (and Mary Jo and > others) are less interested in engaging in the kind of (spurious) moral > JUDGEMENT I was taking issue with--- > I mean, of course, we "SHOULD" be a lot of things we're not, > but thankfully that didn't stop Creeley from giving voice to > a lot of other things.... > > C > > > > > > > > ---------- >> From: Ruth Lepson >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Was Robert Creeley "stupid about gender" and love? >> Date: Sat, Jul 2, 2005, 2:24 PM >> > >> Dear Chris S., >> >> Read yr creeley thoughts w/ great interest as I am trying to (un)formulate >> thoughts abt dear Bob myself. Some friends, knowing he was the central >> contemporary poet for me, have asked abt his life with women. I can say that >> his generosity was unlimited, and to me as a young poet in Cambridge in the >> early '70s, when I asked if I cd talk to him abt poetry once that summer, he >> sd, "Come every week." So I did. He let Celia Gilbert and me interview him. >> He wrote a blurb for my first book. He came to Boston to read for Oxfam >> America readings I was organizing. In recent years he came to my classes at >> the NEng Conservatory of Music, even Xeroxing handouts himself. Sure, he >> loved to talk and be with people, but that's part of the point. One felt his >> kindness and kindliness. >> >> At the same time, he was a kind of Dostoyevsky character in his poetry. >> There was a guy, Robert Creeley, who appeared in his poems. This guy was the >> existential person of our time. I read Creeley always thinking of his poems >> as current and newly meaningful, because he was asking about and tentatively >> coming to statements, filled with feeling, about what it means to be >> alive,in our time & in any time.What we all have in common was his subject, >> I feel. Denise Levertov and Adrienne Rich were the other essential poets for >> me, and I never felt conflict going from Rich to Creeley. Each was vast and >> sincere while questioning the notion of sincerity. >> >> Three times I've gone to visit Bob at Tulip Lane in Mt. Auburn Cemetery and >> each time what comes to mind, after the existential shock that he doesn't >> exist now, is what he said, "If it isn't fun, don't do it." Is that >> gender-laden? I dunno, but it reminds me as well as any guy, once I can get >> past what I mist do, to choose. >> >> I wrote some poems for Bob in the weeks after he died. One of them is a >> realization that came for the first time in my life about the importance of >> art, which had often seemed flimsy in the face of humanity's suffering. I >> was standing outside thinking nothing means anything bec Bob died, people >> die, and I thought, Why did people love Bob so much? Because he was a great >> poet! He was able to say what most people cannot, and what we long to hear >> other people say. One of the few times on this earth when a human being, >> lovely to see and hear as he was, went beyond sex. >> >> Bob was called a lyric poet and an innovative poet. Impossibly, he managed >> both. >> >> >> On 7/2/05 6:00 PM, "Chris Stroffolino" wrote: >> >>> OKAY, I did it---finally testing the waters and succumbing to the >>> BLOGOSPHERE >>> >>> Just up---first two posts. >>> >>> 1. Oakland "My" Oakland---some loose tentative thoughts about the WAYANS >>> BROTHERS hope to build a movie studio in Oakland, the local RAGazine THE >>> BOOTY CRACK, the CULTURAL SEGREGRATION of blacks and whites in Oaktown >>> against a backdrop of gentrification, etc. >>> >>> 2. (of potentially more interest here) Was Robert Creeley "stupid about >>> gender"? Some thoughts, and a defense, not just of Creeley's love poetry and >>> prose, but of the kind of thinking he did, and a plea that such >>> thinking/feeling may still be relevant today....(warning: a little "over the >>> top" this may be, written very shortly after his death, while very shaken >>> up).... >>> >>> Oh yeah, here's the link--- >>> >>> http://blog.myspace.com/continuouspeasant >>> >>> comments always appreciated ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 19:21:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Golden Handcuffs Review #5 out In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Can we get this issue from you? On 7/7/05 3:49 PM, "Lou Rowan" wrote: > To all, This Creeley and Davenport memorial issue hit the distributors > (Ingram, DeBoer) early this week, and should be arriving in bookstores. >=20 > New work by Mark Axelrod, Rachel Back, Charles Bernstein, Gregg Biglieri, > Sarah Campbell, Jaclyn Cole, Serge Gavronsky, Jesse Glass, Bernard > Hoeppfner, Pierre Joris, Leslie Kaplan, Karen Kelley, Hank Lazer, Stacey > Levine, Jason, Macey, Rick Moody, Paul Naylor, Kevin Nolan, Doug Nufer, J= ohn > Olson, Toby Olson, Peter Quartermain, Donald Revell, Lou Rowan, Daniele > Sallenave, Kyle Schlesinger, Charles Stein, John Taggart, James Tierney, = and > Norman Weinstein. Essays on Creeley and Davenport, and responses by write= rs > to each others' work in the issue. >=20 > Subscriptions $12/annum. Single copies $6.95. Ads $100/page, smaller size= s > and repeats negotiated. >=20 > Website www.goldenhandcuffsreview.com >=20 > Please read. Please support us. >=20 > Thanks, Lou Rowan >=20 >> From: Charles Bernstein >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Recommended Summer Reading >> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:59:20 -0400 >>=20 >> Recommended Summer Reading, II >>=20 >> Barbara Guest, The Red Gaze (Wesleyan University Press) >>=20 >> Douglas Messerli, ed., The PIP Anthology of World Poetry of the 20th >> Century, vol. 5: Intersections: Innovative Poetry of Southern California= , >> with provocative intro.by Messerli >>=20 >> Will Alexander, Exobiology as Goddess (Manifest Press) Jos=C3=A9 Lezama Lima= , >> Selections, ed. & intro. Ernesto Livon-Grosman (University of California >> Press) >>=20 >> Juliana Spahr, This Connection of Anyone With Lungs (University of >> California Press) >>=20 >> Norman Fischer, Slowly but Dearly (Chax) >>=20 >> Maria Damon & Miekal And, pleasureTEXTpossession (Zasterle) >> Boisterous and engaging collaboration culminating in a visual tour de >> force, "E.n.t.r.a.n.c.e.d" >>=20 >> Keith Waldrop, The Real Subject: Queries and Conjectures of Jacob Delafo= n >> with Sample Poems (Omnidawn) >>=20 >> Thomas Fink, After Taxes (Marsh Hawk Press) >>=20 >> Pablo Picasso, The Burial of the Count of Orgaz & Other Poems. ed. & tr. >> Jerome Rothenberg & Pierre Joris (Exact Change) >>=20 >> Amelia Rosselli , War Variations; tr. Lucia Re & Paul Vangelisti, afterw= ord >> by Pier Paolo Pasolini (Green Integer) >>=20 >> Douglas Messerli, First Words (Green Integer) >>=20 >> Jerome Rothenberg, Translations and Variations (Wesleyan) >>=20 >> Adrienne Rich -- The School Among the Ruins (Norton) >>=20 >> Chris Tysh, Cleavage (Roof) >>=20 >> Charles Alexander, near or random acts (Singling Horse) >>=20 >> Louise H. Forsyth, ed., Nicole Brossard: Essays on Her Work (Guernica >> Editions) >>=20 >> Leslie Scalapino, ed. War and Peace (O Books) >>=20 >> Taylor Brady, Yesterday=E2=80=9As News (Factory School) >>=20 >> Michelle Leggott, Milk & Honey (New Zealand University Press) >>=20 >> Elizabeth Treadwell, Chantry (Chax) >>=20 >> Merril Gilfillan, Small Wonders (Qua Books) >>=20 >> James Longenbach, The Resistance to Poetry (University of Chicago) >> me >>=20 >> Leslie Scalapino and Judith Goldman, ed. War and Peace 2 (O Books) >>=20 >> Peter Gizzi, Periplum and Other Poems (Salt) >>=20 >> Gilbert Sorrentino, New and Selected Poems: 1958-1998 by (Green Integer= ) >>=20 >> Rodrigo Toscano, To Leveling Swerve (Krupsaya) >> Kenneth Goldsmith, The Weather (Make Now) >>=20 >> Ted Greenwald, The Up and Up (Atelos) >>=20 >> Mark Wallace, Temporary Worker Rides the Subway (Green Integer) >>=20 >> Bernadette Mayer, Indigo Bunting (Zasterle Press) >>=20 >> Eileen Tabios, I Take Thee, English, for My Beloved (Marsh Hawk) >>=20 >> David McAleavy, Huge Haiku (Chax) >>=20 >> Lev Rubinstein, Catalog of Comedic Novelties, tr. Philip Meters and >> Tatiana Tulchinsky (Ugly Duckling Presse) >>=20 >> Phillip Foss, The Ideation (Singing Horse) >>=20 >> Jen Bevin, Nets (Ugly Duckling) >>=20 >> Ron Silliman, Under Albany (Salt Publishing) >>=20 >> Jonathan Skinner, Political Cactus Poems (Palm Tree Press) >>=20 >> Paul Auster, Collected Prose (Picador) >>=20 >> Ravi Shankar, Instrumentality (Cherry Grove Press) >>=20 >> Sasha Steensen, A Magic Book (Fence Books) >>=20 >> Steve Benson, Open Clothes (Atelos) >>=20 >> Heidi Lynn Staples, Guess Can Gallop (New Issues Press / Western Michiga= n >> University Press) >>=20 >> Gerald Bruns, The Material of Poetry: Sketches for a Philosophical Poeti= cs >> (University of Georgia Press) >>=20 >> Dimitri Prigov, 500 Drops of Blood in an Absorbent Medium, tr. Christoph= er >> Mattison (Ugly Duckling Press) >>=20 >> Peter Jaeger, Ekhardt Cars, (Salt Publishing) >>=20 >> Paul Celan, Threadsuns, tr. Pierre Joris (Green Integer) >>=20 >>=20 >> * >>=20 >> Toward the Open Field: Poets on the Art of Poetry 1800-1950, ed. Melissa >> Kwansy (Wesleyan University Press) >>=20 >> Poetry in Theory: An Anthology 1900-2000, ed. Jon Cook (Blackwell) >>=20 >>=20 >> * >>=20 >> NOTE ALSO >> Our new books from the University of Alabama Modern and Contemporary Poe= try >> Series -- >>=20 >> Abigail Child, This is Called Moving: A Critical Poetics of Film (just o= ut >> this week) >>=20 >> Peter Middleton, Distant Reading: Performance, Readership, and Consumpti= on >> in Contemporary Poetry >>=20 >> Aldon Nielsen, Integral Music: Languages of African-American Innovation >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=3DRetirement ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 18:34:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Baraban Subject: Discretion and valor In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alex, Yep, "creative souls" like to "run rough-shod over rules", as you say, but ONE rule that's pretty good to stick to is something Shakespeare had Falstaff say: "the better part of valor is discretion". The late Buffalo poet/professor/musician John (Jack) Clarke once pointed out in class that in addition to the admonition to be discreet, this could be heard as a "space" statement: you always need to know the DISCRETE point in space where you are and act accordingly. So where were you on the evening of June 17, 2005, sir? I'll tell you--you were on the Poetics Board telling Alan Sondheim to do traditionally noble humanist things in his writing--"find me the essence of the people in a spot where you are...I need to know that you can and do see, feel, hear, taste and touch the human element of the locals you encounter...From what I see and feel of your reports, you remain disassociated...Get the fuck out there and mingle, make some painful contacts...feed the pigeons and embrace the people who sit beside you..." Can you understand how this sounds on a list that was created to serve the experimental and "impossible"--even to people who don't like the work and play of Alan Sondheim, and God knows there's a lot of dissension about that fellow. Please, please, be HUMAN Alan, you're saying, as if it's so clear what it is to be a responsive human in this raging bleeping beeping world! So I'd say know where you are on this Board, it's worth it no matter how much this place is dying...if you meditate about all this and still feel you must speak boldly for traditional concepts of "human expression" then I think you should speak with a "loyal oppositionist" tone that acknowledges that you are speaking against the grain but there is something you want to quietly argue... You see, such "indescretion" (as also, your telling Charles Bernestein so glibly in early May that surely he knows he should be "debunking" Adorno's poetry after Auschwitz statement as "utter nonsense") only feeds the intense fear/paranoia of some people long involved with this list that the wrong people are crashing the party and ruining the discourse and conducting their dopey open mic... Peace to you, Alex, and to all. travels, hell creeps like me are all over Poetics. Find for me the lady who still wears her wedding gown from the day she was left standing on the church steps. Let me hear her laughter from the recognition of her good fortune at having shed herself of the twit. Get your ass off the back end of the camera and sit on the fucking bench; then, share their experiences with us, if they'll let you in on them. Other wise...hurry the fuck home and end this travel charade. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Sondheim To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:03 PM Subject: you're probably tired of these by now you're probably tired of these by now i'm hungry for your (absent) replies it's hard enough to get myself motivated much less you i try to respond to work i like mine is unlikeable though i work hard at it making it pleasing for you http://www.asondheim.org/mapp.mov what it must mean to receive tender commendations while we travel across the united states documenting every stop through worldwind, thank you nasa you can meander the highways and the high lonesome places where vlf signals blew in from the outer reaches and you could follow the world in the world but you're probably tired of these by now these tired landscapes repeating themselves over and over again feeding the hungry is more rewarded than any replies i'll push myself until i die perhaps not soon enough for you yes yes i like no i love your work much better than mine (of work, yours / mine) always speaking is so unpleasant http://www.asondheim.org/mapp.mov the tenderness of all interstates and tiny wayfarer's lanes we are here for you, they signal and nothing utters response universal plasma is never angelic ____________________________________________________ Sell on Yahoo! Auctions – no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 22:49:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NEW AND ON VIEW: MUDLARK POSTER NO. 57 (2005) ANNE COLWELL Unlearning the Stars | Meditations: Divine and Mortal | Hope | Margarita Anne Colwell's work has appeared in Midwest Quarterly Review, The Alsop Review, Southern Poetry Review, Dominion Review, Atlanta Review, California Quarterly, Octavo and Eclectic Literary Forum. Eve Shelnutt's anthology, THE WRITER'S ROOM, has a chapter on her poems in it entitled "Discovering the Voices of Biblical Women." Her manuscript, BELIEVING THEIR SHADOWS, was a finalist for the Brittingham Prize at the University of Wisconsin, the Anhinga Prize, the New Issues Poetry Prize, and the Quarterly Review of Literature (QRL) Poetry Series. Her book INSCRUTABLE HOUSES: METAPHORS OF THE BODY IN THE POEMS OF ELIZABETH BISHOP was published by the University of Alabama Press. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:52:44 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: [job] Poet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Location: Chicago, IL The Columbia College Chicago English Department is hiring a mid-career poet of national reputation for a tenure-track position to begin Fall 2006. Course load is approximately 3/3; courses taught will depend on the candidate's background and the needs of the Department, and will include core courses in the undergraduate and graduate poetry programs. The poet will be expected to take part in rotating administrative positions in the Poetry Program. The successful candidate will have: - a terminal degree - substantial and active publication record (a minimum of 3 full-length poetry collections from presses of standing) - deep commitment to teaching writing at all levels - demonstrated, energetic experience in program administration and editorial work - a desire to participate in, and help shape, the English Department as a whole For consideration, send letter of application including areas of teaching and scholarly interest, 1-2 pg. statement of teaching philosophy, 2-3 pg. poetry sample, and c.v. by Nov. 1 to: Arielle Greenberg Poetry Search Chair, English Department Columbia College Chicago 600 South Michigan Avenue Chicago, IL 60605-1996 Columbia College Chicago is a vibrant, diverse arts and communications school in downtown Chicago. Our English Department features a dynamic Poetry Program offering a BA and an MFA, an active poetry reading series, and two nationally distributed literary magazines, Columbia Poetry Review (student-edited) and Court Green (faculty-edited). The department also offers minors in literature and professional writing (and creative nonfiction), and cross-listed courses in a cultural studies major. EOE ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:12:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: Usoku MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=shift_jis Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you suck too it should be called does anyone actuaLLY KNOW ANy thing about haiku out there shit this broken computer sucks my real computer crashed out tonight hundreds of pomes e-addresses letters files lost little back up whole ms that will if recoverd be published soon actually taking advance sales final nite - the complete notes of a charles gayle notebook due out early dec on ugly duckling press $ 12 advance 175 ish pages w/6color plates anyway black screen gone black gone HELP some nuudnik scared my wife into the virus mode so she panic ed and set out to transfer everything to disc and somewhere along the line like negative wish fulfillment voila erased darkness erased ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 04:57:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Clutchin Clay (0H0G0E/875) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Comes a cleansin Like graffic typos Of sk8ers turn to negros Castin a spell on Check points Over flows Thousands Set solid bout this city I will you bring you Urban cantos Echoed by rockabillies Woht will strike your Silly wallz crumbling down On bus rides To positive logic Like math tricks Squared to the Forgotten losses Of philistines In creepers Getting searched on the streets of paris The fadeeya so high Like the purest called katrachos It’s a crime So I send my bruhs Duas With the eloquence of Fatima Slammin words like a flower Of sound bombs On Sharon Aerial assaults over free wireless Greater victories of daemons To clash with Evil dreams Dishin out the cleansin Of loans burning with the vision of Jinns who breath payback and paranoia Fearing the noheh Who pound chests Hollerin in the hiz Songs of War like rocks on rings Breathin secrets in palms A clarity like swords by bruhs Clutchin the clay In mag pockets 1426 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC http://ottawa.indymedia.ca/en/2005/05/951.shtml http://bc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/1886/index.php http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8 *Frost -- "los katrachos" ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\\\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 09:00:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Iraqi Insurgency Proves A Life Saver Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Iraqi Insurgency Proves A Life Saver: Pentagon Study Reveals Many Thousands More Would Have Died If Iraq Forces Had Resisted: Game Theory Reveals Fewer Iraqis Killed Because Of Insurgents' Strategy: By JOHN McCARTHY & SIMON NEWELL They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 08:23:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Chicagopostmodernpoetry New Interviews of Scappettone, Sikelianos and Mc Sweeney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com has been updated with a new review of Eleni Sikeliano's The California Poem and three new profiles, of Jen Scappettone, Eleni Sikelianos and Joyelle Mc Sweeney- enjoy these profiles I did! Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 08:27:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Apologies for my earlier mail In-Reply-To: <20050708022511.98475.qmail@web51109.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kazim Back channel me I have a question R -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Kazim Ali Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:25 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Apologies for my earlier mail Hi folks, sorry--a letter meant only for Leslie Scalapino went to everyone. But if you did read, then you know what my new novel is about! WAR IS OVER (if you want it) Kazim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 09:36:56 -0400 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Discretion and valor In-Reply-To: <20050709013416.11097.qmail@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 8 Jul 2005 at 18:34, Stephen Baraban wrote: > ... only > feeds the intense fear/paranoia of some people long > involved with this list that the wrong people are > crashing the party and ruining the discourse and > conducting their dopey open mic... < This is the way it always goes, isn't it -- the revolutionaries discover that the only way to maintain the revolution is to become dictatorial and super-controlling about who can say what, when, and where. Open discourse is the first victim, as it has been here. The notion that there are "the wrong people" is anathema to the very notion of the principles of a revolution that glories in extreme diversity -- and yet, and yet, there you go, in defense of the totalitarian view, belaboring "the wrong people" who talk about what you think are the wrong things in the wrong way. You want to silence them and enable what you no doubt think of as "the right people" -- and how different is that from any other totalitarian dictator who only wants to hear what he wants to hear, and who refuses to hear anything else? Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 12:40:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Usoku MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit computer back up and running miraculously ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 13:10:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: A Contrast to Kimmelman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Robert Hass has an engaging poem in the New Yorker (June 27, p.97) called THE PROBLEM OF DESCRIBING TREES. The poem has a fascinating complication and pleasure to to it, and it shares some of Kimmelman's concerns, but the first two lines struck me as offering a sharp contrast to Kimmelman. Hass opens The aspen glitters in the wind. And that delights us. I take it that the trembling motions of the aspen is in the background and the word "delights" is the foreground. It's the other way around with Kimmelman, motion is to the foreground. Words that name inner feelings tend to be avoided completely, or if they appear at all, they belong to a process or repetition, or of resistance outside of the reader. Consider the word "undaunted" in a poem SOL LEWITT'S Double Pyramid (Whitney Museum Restaurant 12.23.00) How incredibly lucky art is, its shining like the sun, undaunted--and we, too, from below the summit, in our odd ways make it come true. In JANE AND RYAN AT THE SHORE, motion itself evokes emotion. Legs curl under in the darkened sand. The waves run easily up the beach. Dolphin fins pace the sea beyond. Water has found us all. In different ways, Kimmelman and Hass are both relevant to Angus Fletcher's "A NEW THEORY FOR AMERICAN POETRY, Democracy, the Environment and the Future of the Imagination." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:11:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Re: Usoku MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit brava - must be those sun salutations i did in yoga class. but also - do you have a mac with an external disc player that needs to use the printer port? happened to me - but it was a matter of replacing cables in and out again - then it revived. nonetheless i've been afraid to use it for backup again and just print out everything. from the technologically challenged, Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 13:49:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Discretion and valor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steven, you wrote:=20 "Can you understand how this sounds on a list that was created to serve the experimental and "impossible"--even to people who don't like the work and play of Alan Sondheim, and God knows there's a lot of dissension about that fellow. Please, please, be HUMAN Alan, you're saying, as if it's so clear what it is to be a responsive human in this raging bleeping beeping world!" ********************************************************* Well said!=20 And you are correct beyond the point of further mentioning, other than = for me to fall on my sword here and now. Sometimes it takes a swift kick in the ego for some folks to see the = error of their words; I'll consider myself aptly and deservedly kicked. = Alex =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stephen Baraban=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:34 PM Subject: Discretion and valor Alex, Yep, "creative souls" like to "run rough-shod over rules", as you say, but ONE rule that's pretty good to stick to is something Shakespeare had Falstaff say: "the better part of valor is discretion". The late Buffalo poet/professor/musician John (Jack) Clarke once pointed out in class that in addition to the admonition to be discreet, this could be heard as a "space" statement: you always need to know the DISCRETE point in space where you are and act accordingly. So where were you on the evening of June 17, 2005, sir? I'll tell you--you were on the Poetics Board telling Alan Sondheim to do traditionally noble humanist things in his writing--"find me the essence of the people in a spot where you are...I need to know that you can and do see, feel, hear, taste and touch the human element of the locals you encounter...From what I see and feel of your reports, you remain disassociated...Get the fuck out there and mingle, make some painful contacts...feed the pigeons and embrace the people who sit beside you..." Can you understand how this sounds on a list that was created to serve the experimental and "impossible"--even to people who don't like the work and play of Alan Sondheim, and God knows there's a lot of dissension about that fellow. Please, please, be HUMAN Alan, you're saying, as if it's so clear what it is to be a responsive human in this raging bleeping beeping world! So I'd say know where you are on this Board, it's worth it no matter how much this place is dying...if you meditate about all this and still feel you must speak boldly for traditional concepts of "human expression" then I think you should speak with a "loyal oppositionist" tone that acknowledges that you are speaking against the grain but there is something you want to quietly argue... You see, such "indescretion" (as also, your telling Charles Bernestein so glibly in early May that surely he knows he should be "debunking" Adorno's poetry after Auschwitz statement as "utter nonsense") only feeds the intense fear/paranoia of some people long involved with this list that the wrong people are crashing the party and ruining the discourse and conducting their dopey open mic... Peace to you, Alex, and to all. travels, hell creeps like me are all over Poetics. Find for me the lady who still wears her wedding gown from the day she was left standing on the church steps. Let me hear her laughter from the recognition of her good fortune at having shed herself of the twit. Get your ass off the back end of the camera and sit on the fucking bench; then, share their experiences with us, if they'll let you in on them. Other wise...hurry the fuck home and end this travel charade. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan = Sondheim> To: = POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:03 PM Subject: you're probably tired of these by now you're probably tired of these by now i'm hungry for your (absent) replies it's hard enough to get myself motivated much less you i try to respond to work i like mine is unlikeable though i work hard at it making it pleasing for you = http://www.asondheim.org/mapp.mov> what it must mean to receive tender commendations while we travel across the united states documenting every stop through worldwind, thank you nasa you can meander the highways and the high lonesome places where vlf signals blew in from the outer reaches and you could follow the world in the world but you're probably tired of these by now these tired landscapes repeating themselves over and over again feeding the hungry is more rewarded than any replies i'll push myself until i die perhaps not soon enough for you yes yes i like no i love your work much better than mine (of work, yours / mine) always speaking is so unpleasant = http://www.asondheim.org/mapp.mov> the tenderness of all interstates and tiny wayfarer's lanes we are here for you, they signal and nothing utters response universal plasma is never angelic ____________________________________________________ Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 13:56:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: HIV/AIDS as the other face of terrorism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit notes from new palestine: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/42638.php HIV/AIDS as the other face of terrorism this media revamping of reality (bourgeois propaganda) is no different than what occurred when most diseases were passed via colonizing europeans who introduced and spread “the sickness”, be it mental or physical, to the native/indigenous populations thus decimating tribes and cultures then reworked their role from ethnic cleansers into that of missionaries and health providers. About the spamming of propaganda targeting the poor and the nonwhites as the bringers of disease and destruction in this case of HIV as the other face of terrorism -- if you do the knowledge, the people who are engaging in risky behavior and even have encouraged and glamorized the now POPcult “lifestyle of disease” are white middle class and professional gay men – conspicuous in their absence on the recent coverage ,or more, the spam attacks on media sites and within the gay community will project this ‘positive is negative’ ideology onto the swarthy, the bisexual, the lower classes and especially those who are in foreign lands or who do not conform to the global bandwagon of constructed sexual ideologies as designated by the u.s. (unformed state). The porn industry, personal ads and party circuits for "barebacking" videos and adverts, is targeted towards men of the more wealthier erie noble “mobile” classes, mostly of the leather scene, who use poor youth and nonwhites to satiate this “life on the edge” desire centered in boredom, cruelty, power and human life as a chess game. The game can be seen as the colonizing global business economy creeps on in life as a likkle death on the backs of extreme poverty and the working poor. So this risking and attracting the infection, aka. "the gift", becomes a game of the ruling class and a ebenezeresque endowment to globalization in order to ‘decrease the surplus population”, disable countries and communities and have them come along side as the great 8 hold the power of cures, poisons and research in check. “This whole notion that ordinary western(er)s can help suffering starving Africans by having a big party is patronising, shallow and obscene…” – radio khilafah The Victorian era used the poor and young males in the same manner as “rule britiannia” sounded off in a country camouflaged in power and tragedy of manners covering up it’s hypocrisy, syphilis, murder and sickness. in these times of increasing legitimizing of the ‘flesh for funds’ trade agreements which normalizes prostitution as an alternate income source, and for white youth, as a "coming out process", it is not coincidental, that neoslavery has become the rule of thumb and that the gay community is pushing this mental state (from xtrawest to the glossy amerikkkan puppet masters which bang the macabre dances tunes of lies and shallow hopes of happiness and conformity), like a kkkanadian with a infected blanket, wraps it up like a gift to first nations peoples. “How did this disease come of nowhere and metamorphose from a gay white male disease to a Black disease, disproportionately affecting Africa and female African Americans? If it were a Black disease, we would have been dying from it before the 1980's.”— Darryl James -- “ The Black Top Ten: Evidence of Racism” this media revamping of reality (bourgeois propaganda) is no different than what occurred when most diseases were passed via colonizing europeans who introduced and spread “the sickness”, be it mental or physical, to the native/indigenous populations thus decimating tribes and cultures then reworked their role from ethnic cleansers into that of missionaries and health providers. let's not forget the travesty of the poppy show of "live8" which only serves as the propaganda machine for the global holocaust of amerikkka and her all lies. "we felt and had expressed very strongly that the Live 8 and Make Poverty History campaigns in many ways were taking us back to an Edwardian era of tea and sympathy, that they were replacing our political campaigns with philanthropic campaigns. And they were handling the G8 leaders as if they were the potential saviors of the world, while completely ignoring and sidelining the harm that they were doing."--George Monbiot The posts and the propaganda will, like most media in this denial and (RE)creation of reality culture, sway the focus away from the privileged classes of white gay culture (and that gay culture here in british Columbia) and choose to scapegoat the poor and nonwhites, and even the population of countries and peoples which seem to defy globalization, as being the axis of aids and hiv -- we have seen endless posts on china, cuba, the poor, africa, the caribbean, italy and the increasingly defiant and radicalized native peoples, whose youth are on the come up, and who are clashing with the ethnic genocidal block busting practices of the gentrifying urban and global powers, as the strapped suicide bombers of hiv and aids. Not so coincidently, adding to alden c. mayfield’s observation, these native youths are currently joining and engaging “the mainstream systems of power and knowledge,” therefore making themselves “able to right the injustices of the past through political, legal or military intervention.”1. This is no different than the middle east be it Palestine or other muslim countries, who suffer far less from, if any, the once, named “gay plague” now HIV and AIDs, who are making moves to disturb the lies and colonizers and their traditional romp of rape, plaguing and alternate career sources. Let us note that with these colonial eerie noble practices the physical and mental health state soon should “reform” these backwards civilization and bring them up to the contemporary level of the western world and it’s global goals of new world medical industry despair and disease – and with this in the case of HIV as the other face of terrorism we see “what Indians and Palestinians (and the poor and blacks) share” 1426 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC http://ottawa.indymedia.ca/en/2005/05/951.shtml http://bc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/1886/index.php http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8 http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=11474&TagID=8 or http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/42626.php http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/08/1346205 and Darryl James -- “ The Black Top Ten: Evidence of Racism” http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/06/42105.php http://www.blacknla.com/news/Articles/DJ10Racism.asp http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=7983 or http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/06/41547.php Cowboys and Indians: Perspectives on http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/28219.php see also: ...all have great responsibilities and that is the responsibility of taking care of patients, responsibility of nursing and responsibility of treatment...in the same manner as a father treats his child, a mother nurses her children. You should consider patients as your own relatives... And in hospital they should be cared and nursed in the same manner, as Islam likes them to be cared and nursed and attended with responsibility... those patients whose hearts are broken, are in need of nursing of spirit, need of spiritual tranquility... nursing like a mother, a sister and brother and father. http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/42433.php http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=7983 ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 17:49:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: (bay area) reading for mem this sunday july 10 Comments: To: wom-PO@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed there is a summer backyard poetry reading series in albany. this sunday's reading is for _mem_, the magazine jill stengel recently started--a magazine of writing by poets who are mothers and page mothers (more-established writers who help less-established writers gain more visibility). the reading has all the writers from the first issue of mem except for laynie browne, who will be hosting the event along w/susanna dyckman. for those of you whom have not yet seen the magazine, that means the readers are patricia dienstfrey, dana lomax, jill stengel, elizabeth treadwell, and robin tremblay-mcgaw. All readings are on Sundays, beginning at 3pm. Walk down the driveway on the left side of the house to the backyard gate (which will be on your right). Bring a jacket or sweater, as two large redwood trees in the yard can block the afternoon sun. Potluck items welcome The address is 632 Evelyn Ave., Albany 94706. The house is light gray with a very large birch tree in the front yard and wisteria covering the front porch. Elizabeth Treadwell http://elizabethtreadwell.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 18:11:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Neo.Benshi / That (incredible) event Comments: cc: "Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable NEO-BENSHI The latter day art of Live Film Narration WHERE: Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, S.F. 701 Mission St. (@ 3rd) WHEN: THURSDAY, JULY 7, performances at 7:30 & 9:30 p.m. I have been wanting to say something about this no less than sensational an= d wonderful New-Benshi poet-theatrical-film event this past Thursday evening! Conceived and presented by Konrad Steiner, who together with Roxi Hamilton invited several Bay Area writers (Brandon Brown, Norma Cole, Stephanie Young, Rodney Koeneke, David Larsen and Roxi Hamilton) to re-imagine the benshi=B9s art at San Francisco Cinematheque, selecting scenes from films of their choice. For the unfamiliar as I was, WHAT is Benshi? From the flier announcement: The Japanese term benshi means film-teller, and the profession thrived in Korea and Japan during the silent film era. The benshi would write their ow= n narration for silent films which they declaimed on stage, using different voice characterizations to switch between narrator and various actors. At Yerba Buena - a small theater - the films were projected on the screen above the stage while the poets with a microphone did their work from floo= r level and somewhat to the side of the screen. The films for copyright reasons could not be named in the program. No need to invite the fear - in some cases - of Warner Bros. Attorneys in the audience waiting to slam the poor performer with a megabuck suit for infringement of copyright. Unfortunately I don't have the in-house program which may have taken the legal risk and identified the films(?) which varied from a genuinely silent= , Japanese work (Norma Cole and MacGinnes) to a 30's Gene Autry quasi-modern cowboy singing flick (Brandon Brown , Alien, a Sci-Fi flick (Stephanie Young), Rebel Without a Cause (Roxie Hamilton), an old flick from royal court behaving India (Rodney Koeneke), and Battle of Troy section from the Illiad 50's era film starring Peter O'Toole, among others (You can see why = I am not a film critic - I should have asked questions and taken notes!). The results - ringed with narrations and voiceovers - ranged from a high level of camp hilarity to touching levels of sincerity. Similar to a proces= s by which I suspect many of us rewrite and critically interpret any piece of art with the unraveling of the subliminal notations of either unconscious negation and/or desire - the poets had a field day offered with the Benshi form.=20 I don't don't have the time to go into extensive detail. But take, for example, Brandon Brown - guitar in hand - singing and narrating along with Gene Autry & Co.- a film robust with chase scenes on horses, narrow escapes by young hero and heroine, a single engine Piper Cub and a Ranch Press Conference. Brandon's Autry parody moved right along with the cowboy shtick mounting a pastiche in which the bad guys are "the insurgents" - making kin= d of light handed but darkly resonant comedy about the lawful and righteous - including the fictions of Press Conference - having to deal with this nuisance encircling the ever innocent Ranch. In comparison to Brandon, Stephanie Young's refined interior monologue of (= I think) romantic and beleaguered intrigue was sandwiched between the heavily armed woman in "Alien" trying to make her way through a building structure through which danger lurked at every corner. And just, O too briefly Rodney Koeneke's virtuoso enactment and faux translation of the different voices in PYAASA (1957) - the Indian film. (That might be the real title) - was a great parody of the voices of authoritarian manipulation, feminine victimization, gangster braha and what have you. Unfortunately I could not get Mac McGinnes' voiceover use of Norma Cole's script - perhaps the most straight on analysis of what was going in this absolutely haunting Japanese silent film of a party in which all the guests are wearing masks and a magician roams releasing a seeming ceaseless number of white doves from his handkerchief. After an intermission, Roxi Hamilton and David Larsen put on a couple of tour-de-forces. Roxie took the "chicken" car scene in Rebel Without a Cause and queered and Freuded the space in most intimate manner - never missing a double entendre among "the rebels." Maybe a little overdone, but a delight nevertheless. Finally, David Larsen who, by education is up to his shoulders in ancient Greece and that whole end of the world, did a knock-out parody of the Hollywood "redneck/Hells Angels versus the Pussies" duel at the Battle of Troy. "Old fuck-face" - sword in hand -was just that as he confronted and cut that skinny, weak-ass taker of Helen. Somehow, the evening reminded me of Allen's Bernheimer's Poets Theater in the Eighties - also here in San Francisco - in the way many of those theate= r performances then provided comic relief from the often didactic rigors and of young Lang Po. New-Benshi - hardly working against a period of such rigor - but bouncing off these films gave the writer/performers the chance to widen the range and permission of their own emerging and strong work (an= d against whatever may be the limits of the contemporary poem as a structure)= . It was also great fun.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 22:14:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Usoku MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes thanks printing out is vital i just didn't do it to the recent 100 or so this past year ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 07:09:42 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Usoku Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit july morn lost & found o yuko.... look...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:48:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Help! In-Reply-To: <1120847084.42cec4ecd78a3@webmail.sfsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have the following people's emails? Please backchannel Elizabeth Robinson Brenda Ijima John Ashbery ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:12:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Re: Help! In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit No doubt you could access Elizabeth's through the English Dept at University of Colorado web site, if all else fails. That's where she teaches. Julie K- > From: Haas Bianchi > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:48:28 -0500 > To: > Subject: Help! > > Does anyone have the following people's emails? Please backchannel > > Elizabeth Robinson > Brenda Ijima > John Ashbery ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:02:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: Re: Ni Zan and Usoku MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit visual not invented by helmes it's been around in various forms for quite awhile haiga is one example from the japanese where a visual image and words are more or less combined or co-existent ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:07:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: JOBS: one year creative writing--iowa state university MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>JOBS: one year creative writing--iowa state university ================================================= One-year Replacement Hire (Creative Writing). Visiting Lecturer or Visiting Assistant Professor of English. Iowa State University. Beginning August 22, 2005. Fiction or Nonfiction writer with significant publications (one book) and ability to teach in a second genre such as fiction or nonfiction. MFA or Ph.D. required. We are in the process of re-tooling our MA in Creative Writing to an MFA in Creative Writing that engages ideas of place, the natural world, and the environmental imagination. We seek a writer whose work dovetails with this vision and who will bring fresh ideas and new approaches to teaching creative writing to our program. Duties include a 3/2 teaching load at the graduate and undergraduate level and participation in the creative writing area group. Applicants are invited to send a vita and a dossier of writing samples, teaching materials, and recommendation letters to Charles Kostelnick, Chair, c/o Dept. of English, Iowa State University, 206 Ross Hall, Ames, IA 50011. Application review will begin on July 15, 2005 and continue until position is filled. Iowa State University is an Affirmative Action, Equal Opportunity Employer. ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:10:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: GRANTS: a room of her own foundation grant for u.s. women writers and artists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>GRANTS: a room of her own foundation grant for u.s. women writers and artists ============================================================= http://www.aroomofherown.org/giftfreedom.html A Room Of Her Own A Foundation For Women Artists & Writers A Room Of Her Own Foundation is a nonprofit organization dedicated to furthering the vision of writer Virginia Woolf by bridging the often fatal gap between a woman $B!G (Bs economic reality and her artistic creation. The foundation was formed in 2000 to provide innovative and practical arts patronage to women. Through our generous grant program and unique retreat experiences, A Room of Her Own Foundation works to educate the community about the work of female artists and writers. The foundation provides practical help to award recipients in the form of professional guidance. We are committed to bringing important female voices, and the important creative work of women, into the spotlight. The foundation provides annual Gift of Freedom grants of up to $50,000 to women with creative vision. It is the largest grant of its kind in the United States. A Room of Her Own Foundation $B!G (Bs unique approach recognizes and supports diverse artistic expressions $B!> (Bthe written arts (fiction, creative nonfiction and poetry) as well as the visual arts (painting, sculpture and photography). To be selected for the Gift of Freedom, women applicants not only must demonstrate their talent, but also their motivation. We are looking for women who have solid creative goals and a specific project to accomplish during the two-year term of the grant. We are also interested in helping women who have a track record of commitment to their art and who are also making a substantial effort to be self-sufficient. We also give our award based, in part, on the potential future impact of the artist $B!G (Bs or writer $B!G (Bs work on the broader community. We support women with a social, as well as an artistic, vision. The award recipients have a $B!H (Bmoral $B!I (B contract to complete their project and give back to A Room of Her Own Foundation and mentor other Gift of Freedom recipients. The successful applicant will have a well articulated creative project concept and a clear plan for how it may accomplished. The next award cycle will be in fall of 2006, and will be for fiction. During the period that a recipient is receiving a grant, the recipient is required to report and interact with a mentor on an ongoing basis. A written report setting forth the use of the funds and the progress of the recipients in her chosen field is required quarterly. At the end of the grant term a final written report is required to be submitted to AROHO. In the final report, the recipient is required to account for the funds granted to her and provide an account of her artistic progress while receiving the grant. Additionally, at the end of the grant period, each recipient is required to provide AROHO with documentation regarding the artist's work for the period. The form of submission to AROHO varies with the artist's chosen field. In addition to the financial aspects of the Gift of Freedom Award, recipients are assigned an individual as a mentor, for advice and dialogue. Recipients also have access to members of AROHO's Advisory Council. Once a recipient has progressed in her art, she will be expected to mentor other AROHO recipients. AROHO hopes to create educational programs which will instruct the public about the needs and contributions of women artists, including visits to schools and other educational opportunities in the broader community. Guidelines Each woman interested in receiving financial assistance from AROHO is required to fill out an application form. Application materials are available on this website closer to grant application cycle. Check back in spring of 2006. The application process for a Gift of Freedom Award includes essays on the applicant's artistic life, an example of the applicant's artistic expression, and questions involving educational, and employment history, as well as community service. Complete disclosure of an applicant's data and assets is required. The awarding panel deciding the recipients of the Gift of Freedom Awards will be composed of members of AROHO's Board of Directors, Advisory Council and volunteers from a wide variety of backgrounds, with expertise in the arts, business, theology and psychology. These volunteers are selected by AROHO's Board of Directors based upon their expertise and interest in women in the arts. Each award is given based upon merits of the application presented to the awarding panel. Grants are awarded to deserving women on an objective and nondiscriminatory basis. The Foundation reserves the right to not grant a Gift of Freedom Award for any award cycle, if it is determined, in the sole and absolute discretion of the Foundation's Selection Panel, that there is not an acceptable application among those submitted to the Foundation for the award cycle. -Forwarded by Nalo Hopkinson member, SFWA Grants Committee http://www.sfwa.org "support for writers" listserve: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/supportforwriters/ ___ Stay Strong "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:07:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Ni Zan and Usoku In-Reply-To: <20050710.121030.-173857.0.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Steve Dalachinksy wrote: > visual not invented by helmes it's been around in > various forms for > quite awhile > > haiga is one example from the japanese where a > visual image and words > are more > or less combined or co-existent I don't think it much matters who "invented" visual haiku, and I'm sure Scott couldn't care less who gets credit for it, but I should point out that (in most cases) the artworks he's calling visual haiku are not combinations of visual images and words, but consist of visual images only--generally in the form of cut-outs from magazines (which sometimes contain text, but text intended to be viewed averbally). The cut-outs are arranged on the page to suggest classical haiku--i.e., in three lines. They thus seem to me translations of the verbal into the visual. Simple-sounding but quite sophisticated. I, myself, would call them visual depictions of haiku rather than visual haiku, but am not yet ready to go to war over it. --Bob G. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:31:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Ni Zan and Usoku MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks i know all that i have collaborated with him on some was just clarifying a point ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:38:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lou Rowan Subject: Re: Golden Handcuffs Review #5 out In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sure: your mailing address?--I'm in Marfa, Texas, for 3 weeks. Depending on whether a lost bag arrives or not, I'll send it this week or just after the 29th, when I'm home again. thanks, Lou Your cost $6.95, to be sent to the box # in the website. >From: Ruth Lepson >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Golden Handcuffs Review #5 out >Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 19:21:39 -0400 > >Can we get this issue from you? > > >On 7/7/05 3:49 PM, "Lou Rowan" wrote: > > > To all, This Creeley and Davenport memorial issue hit the distributors > > (Ingram, DeBoer) early this week, and should be arriving in bookstores. > > > > New work by Mark Axelrod, Rachel Back, Charles Bernstein, Gregg >Biglieri, > > Sarah Campbell, Jaclyn Cole, Serge Gavronsky, Jesse Glass, Bernard > > Hoeppfner, Pierre Joris, Leslie Kaplan, Karen Kelley, Hank Lazer, Stacey > > Levine, Jason, Macey, Rick Moody, Paul Naylor, Kevin Nolan, Doug Nufer, >John > > Olson, Toby Olson, Peter Quartermain, Donald Revell, Lou Rowan, Daniele > > Sallenave, Kyle Schlesinger, Charles Stein, John Taggart, James Tierney, >and > > Norman Weinstein. Essays on Creeley and Davenport, and responses by >writers > > to each others' work in the issue. > > > > Subscriptions $12/annum. Single copies $6.95. Ads $100/page, smaller >sizes > > and repeats negotiated. > > > > Website www.goldenhandcuffsreview.com > > > > Please read. Please support us. > > > > Thanks, Lou Rowan > > > >> From: Charles Bernstein > >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Recommended Summer Reading > >> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:59:20 -0400 > >> > >> Recommended Summer Reading, II > >> > >> Barbara Guest, The Red Gaze (Wesleyan University Press) > >> > >> Douglas Messerli, ed., The PIP Anthology of World Poetry of the 20th > >> Century, vol. 5: Intersections: Innovative Poetry of Southern >California, > >> with provocative intro.by Messerli > >> > >> Will Alexander, Exobiology as Goddess (Manifest Press) José Lezama >Lima, > >> Selections, ed. & intro. Ernesto Livon-Grosman (University of >California > >> Press) > >> > >> Juliana Spahr, This Connection of Anyone With Lungs (University of > >> California Press) > >> > >> Norman Fischer, Slowly but Dearly (Chax) > >> > >> Maria Damon & Miekal And, pleasureTEXTpossession (Zasterle) > >> Boisterous and engaging collaboration culminating in a visual tour de > >> force, "E.n.t.r.a.n.c.e.d" > >> > >> Keith Waldrop, The Real Subject: Queries and Conjectures of Jacob >Delafon > >> with Sample Poems (Omnidawn) > >> > >> Thomas Fink, After Taxes (Marsh Hawk Press) > >> > >> Pablo Picasso, The Burial of the Count of Orgaz & Other Poems. ed. & >tr. > >> Jerome Rothenberg & Pierre Joris (Exact Change) > >> > >> Amelia Rosselli , War Variations; tr. Lucia Re & Paul Vangelisti, >afterword > >> by Pier Paolo Pasolini (Green Integer) > >> > >> Douglas Messerli, First Words (Green Integer) > >> > >> Jerome Rothenberg, Translations and Variations (Wesleyan) > >> > >> Adrienne Rich -- The School Among the Ruins (Norton) > >> > >> Chris Tysh, Cleavage (Roof) > >> > >> Charles Alexander, near or random acts (Singling Horse) > >> > >> Louise H. Forsyth, ed., Nicole Brossard: Essays on Her Work (Guernica > >> Editions) > >> > >> Leslie Scalapino, ed. War and Peace (O Books) > >> > >> Taylor Brady, Yesterday‚s News (Factory School) > >> > >> Michelle Leggott, Milk & Honey (New Zealand University Press) > >> > >> Elizabeth Treadwell, Chantry (Chax) > >> > >> Merril Gilfillan, Small Wonders (Qua Books) > >> > >> James Longenbach, The Resistance to Poetry (University of Chicago) > >> me > >> > >> Leslie Scalapino and Judith Goldman, ed. War and Peace 2 (O Books) > >> > >> Peter Gizzi, Periplum and Other Poems (Salt) > >> > >> Gilbert Sorrentino, New and Selected Poems: 1958-1998 by (Green >Integer) > >> > >> Rodrigo Toscano, To Leveling Swerve (Krupsaya) > >> Kenneth Goldsmith, The Weather (Make Now) > >> > >> Ted Greenwald, The Up and Up (Atelos) > >> > >> Mark Wallace, Temporary Worker Rides the Subway (Green Integer) > >> > >> Bernadette Mayer, Indigo Bunting (Zasterle Press) > >> > >> Eileen Tabios, I Take Thee, English, for My Beloved (Marsh Hawk) > >> > >> David McAleavy, Huge Haiku (Chax) > >> > >> Lev Rubinstein, Catalog of Comedic Novelties, tr. Philip Meters and > >> Tatiana Tulchinsky (Ugly Duckling Presse) > >> > >> Phillip Foss, The Ideation (Singing Horse) > >> > >> Jen Bevin, Nets (Ugly Duckling) > >> > >> Ron Silliman, Under Albany (Salt Publishing) > >> > >> Jonathan Skinner, Political Cactus Poems (Palm Tree Press) > >> > >> Paul Auster, Collected Prose (Picador) > >> > >> Ravi Shankar, Instrumentality (Cherry Grove Press) > >> > >> Sasha Steensen, A Magic Book (Fence Books) > >> > >> Steve Benson, Open Clothes (Atelos) > >> > >> Heidi Lynn Staples, Guess Can Gallop (New Issues Press / Western >Michigan > >> University Press) > >> > >> Gerald Bruns, The Material of Poetry: Sketches for a Philosophical >Poetics > >> (University of Georgia Press) > >> > >> Dimitri Prigov, 500 Drops of Blood in an Absorbent Medium, tr. >Christopher > >> Mattison (Ugly Duckling Press) > >> > >> Peter Jaeger, Ekhardt Cars, (Salt Publishing) > >> > >> Paul Celan, Threadsuns, tr. Pierre Joris (Green Integer) > >> > >> > >> * > >> > >> Toward the Open Field: Poets on the Art of Poetry 1800-1950, ed. >Melissa > >> Kwansy (Wesleyan University Press) > >> > >> Poetry in Theory: An Anthology 1900-2000, ed. Jon Cook (Blackwell) > >> > >> > >> * > >> > >> NOTE ALSO > >> Our new books from the University of Alabama Modern and Contemporary >Poetry > >> Series -- > >> > >> Abigail Child, This is Called Moving: A Critical Poetics of Film (just >out > >> this week) > >> > >> Peter Middleton, Distant Reading: Performance, Readership, and >Consumption > >> in Contemporary Poetry > >> > >> Aldon Nielsen, Integral Music: Languages of African-American Innovation > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how >to > > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:49:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Bredie Subject: Summer Readings on the Bowery 12 July 2005 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The madness continues. Just in time for Bastille day. This week we present 'our own revolutionary mixture. JIM CROUSE and me myself and I, NICK BREDIE Tuesday,July 12 6 PM [happy hour--2for1 drinks] Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery, b/t Bleeker and Houston B,D,F,V to B'way/Lafayette or 6 to Bleeker $3 for the readers JIM CROUSE is the author of 'The Organ of Corti,' a yet unpublished manuscript in the tradition of Clark Coolidge. yes we have our avant-guarditsts NICK BREDIE is the author of the chapbook 'Cowboy/Samurai:Paradox' He had no ambition to read in his own series, but these things happen. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:20:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: 'the universal computer' by martin davis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit am muddling through a pretty good book at the mo i thought i'd mention: 'the universal computer' by martin davis (subtitled 'the road from leibniz to turing'). published in the year 2000. each chapter looks at the work of a particular mathematician/logician, starting with leibniz (1646-1716); then George Boole (b. 1822); Gottlob Frege (b. 1848); Georg Cantor (b. 1845); David Hilbert (b. 1862); Kurt Godel (b. 1906); Alan Turing (b. 1912). With brief mention of a few other cats like Charles Babbage (b. 1791). the book traces the contribution of each of these logicians to "leibniz's dream" of a machine that can reason. so the book has a great deal to do with logic and language. it has a lot to do with language since the work of the above logicians can be seen as advances towards languages in which the reasoning can take place. this book also looks, toward the end, at the unfortunate misunderstandings of searle and penrose. whether or not it is the case that there are thought processes of which humans are capable but computers are not remains an open question, notwithstanding things like penrose's simply fallacious proofs that there are. we be language machines, to some extent, in our reasoning/thinking. the degree has not been settled. i would recommend this book to digital artists interested in the historical and philosophical/epistemological underpinnings of computing. i would particularly recommend it to writers involved intensely in the digital, since it concerns the contemporary interpenetration of language, logic and reasoning/thinking. digital artists tend to be interested in the confluence of arts and media. i suggest that the philosophical underpinnings of this confluence concern language in an extrordinary manner. martin davis, the author, is a distinguished logician and knows the subject well. he is a prof emeritus of the courant institute in ny. he has written a related but more technical book on 'Computability and Unsolvability' and has put together a book of early papers by logicians on 'The Undecidable'. the mathematical background required to read 'the universal computer' is minimal. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 01:38:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: Fw: TRIBES FUNDRAISER FOR ISSUE 11 AND 12 ART SALE EXTENDED MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Art Sale to benefit Tribes, July 9-19 Tribes, (285 East 3rd Street, bet C and D, 212 674 3778 info@tribes.org web: http://www.tribes.org Come early to find bargains. Have a chance to purchase art by these current participating artists: John Ahearn, Katherine Arnoldi, Katya Gardea B., John Bastante, Rana Bishara, Star Black, Randy Bloom, Ana Busto, Gulsen Calik, Andrew Castrucci, Chloe Cerwinka, Rena Cohen, Thom Corn,, steve dalachinsky Sally Dill, Dora Espinoza, Fly, Eric Ginsberg, Joy Glidden, Samia Halaby, David Hammons, Silvia Huerta, Nikki Johnson, Diane June, Laurie Kent, Anyssa Kim, Richard Kostelanetz, Sally Lelong, Susan Levinsohn, Loudfoot, Hilary Maslon, Algernon Miller, Shalom Neuman, Yuko Otomo, Lina Pallotta, John Ranard, James Romberg, Mireia Sentis, Linda Shere, Barb Slitkin, Ming Murray Smith, Marilyn Sontag, Michael Tong, Chris Twomey, Teressa Valla, Alejandra Villasmil, Tadashi Watanabe, Kathleen White, Susan Yung Katherine Arnoldi and Merry Fortune, Kenya Mitchell, organizers ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:49:48 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Wom Po , Brit Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Fitterman’s Zukofsky: Reading an essay in verse, 1-800 Flowers Pinsky on Palmer Gustaf Sobin, 1935-2005 Steve Benson: a note on the poem as a “problematical site of documentation of the poem” More on ezines: on Jacket & How2 Aaron Kunin’s Folding Ruler Star (on titles & texts) Geoffrey Brock: New formalism that should impress any fan of Oulipo Lorenzo Thomas, 1944-2005 July 4th – the 150th anniversary of the first edition of Walt Whitman’s Leaves of Grass Spielberg’s September 11th: War of the Worlds A note on Ralph Stanley & Chet Helms Merrill Gilfillan’s Undanceable: quiet, but terrific, music The line in Alli Warren’s Hounds Julia Mayhew & Geoffrey Brock: the clear light of the mind vs. the grout of education http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:07:58 -0400 Reply-To: jUStin!katKO Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jUStin!katKO Subject: Xexoxial Editions Catalog 2005-06 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Poetics: In accord with our devotion to getting you the leg up on your holiday shopping, Xexoxial Editions has a limited time offer that you can't refuse! If you snail or email us your name and address, we'll send you a free copy of the brand new XEXOXIAL EDITIONS 2005-06 CATALOG. With an updated listing of all the Xexoxial media in-print to date, the Catalog is a must have for all those hard-to-get-to corners of your desire for the consumption of experimental aesthetic goods. Catalogs are free with all orders. Librarians and collectors encouraged to respond. download PDF version (3MB): http://www.xexoxial.org/pdf/XE_CATALOG_2005.pdf New titles by Peter Lamborn Wilson, Bern Porter, David Daniels, Irving Weiss, Elizabeth Was, Andrew Topel, Maria Damon & mIEKAL aND. XEXOXIAL EDITIONS Dreamtime Village 10375 Cty Hway A La Farge, WI 54639 USA http://xexoxial.org 608-625-4619 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:17:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Devaney Subject: Words and Birds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ---------------------------------------------------------------- THE INSTITUTE OF CONTEMPORARY ART & THE KELLY WRITERS HOUSE present a summer evening extravaganza on the ICA terrace _______________________ WORDS and BIRDS _______________________ Wednesday, July 13th 7 PM 118 S. 36th Street **************************************************************** "Words and Birds" is an extravaganza of art, poetry, film and music. Poets Alan Gilbert, Sharon Mesmer, Tom Devaney, and Susan Stewart will read new works featuring the poems commissioned to accompany Springtide. Join the ICA for a screening of "The Birdpeople" (U.S., 2004, 61 minutes). Filmmaker Michael Gitlin will introduce the film which begins at dusk. This acclaimed independent film, a favorite on the festival circuit, looks at birdwatchers the way birdwatchers look at birds. Listen to bird music and toast the re-discovery of the ivory-billed woodpecker, thought to be extinct for more than half a century. On the sighting of the woodpecker, US National Audubon Society's Frank Gill says "It is kind of like finding Elvis!" For more information about the ivory-billed bird see postcards from the field. "Words and Birds" is a collaboration with the ICA, Kelly Writers House, and Penn Cinema Studies. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:13:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: on Lorenzo Thomas Comments: To: tyrone williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So, so saddened by Lorenzo's death. Am proud to have published his poems and to have known him, however briefly. He was brilliant and kind, a combination in short supply. Here's a review I wrote of his EXTRAORDINARY MEASURES a couple years back, that appeared in SAGETRIEB. -Mike. Unlocking the Chain: Lorenzo Thomas's Integrated Afrocentricity Michael Magee Lorenzo Thomas. Extraordinary Measures: Afrocentric Modernism and Twentieth-Century American Poetry. xiv, 271 pp. Lorenzo Thomas's Extraordinary Measures begins with a resonant image: Phillis Wheatley and Thomas Jefferson, sizing each other up. Their consideration is, of course, figurative. Jefferson, not the best reader of poetry to begin with, finds in Wheatley's work what he finds in the speech of slaves generally, only "plain narration." (One might say that what he has "discovered" in Wheatley is his own narrative of her, mirrored back.) Conversely, Wheatley signifies all over the democracy which Jefferson helped invent. Here and throughout the book Thomas deftly reminds us what a shift in perspective accomplishes: Jefferson's much celebrated secularism is in the context of this relationship less radical than Wheatley's religious instruction of her "betters." In a book which ranges widely over the vales of Afrocentric modernism and twentieth century poetry (from Fenton Johnson and William Stanley Braithwaite to Ezra Pound, Margaret Walker and Melvin Tolson, Charles Olson, lesser-known urban griots, the polyvocal Black Arts Movement and a host of younger black writers with pen to paper this minute) this "original" moment tells us something about Thomas's view of African-American writing and speech –– that it is at once insistently contextual and inexhaustibly playful. One learns about Umbra Workshop founder Tom Dent's poems, for instance, through Thomas's descriptions of Dent's mentor Marcus B. Christian, of both street-level New Orleans and a mythic, atavistic New Orleans which Thomas evokes in a remarkable one page dreamscape which begins, "Let me step back a minute and show some slides," and ends, "Slavery" (177). There is of course the context of the Umbra Workshop itself, of which Thomas too was a key member. But there is also an insistence that personal and historical contexts not be used to constrain the possibilities of the words on the page: of the emphatic line "our turn" in Dent's "Return to English Turn," Thomas remarks, "It's hard to say how generous Dent is in his use of the word 'our.' That's up to each reader to ponder" (179). Pondering it, I think of the Afrocentric demands for a transvaluation of Western values, for economic and political re-organization –– all of which were a part of the "tattered but tenacious traditions of black nationalism in the streets" decades before they received their broadest support and application in the Black Arts Movement, as Thomas explains so vividly. But I also think of Dent's self-referential play on poetic "turning," which is to say, on poetic verse (ptp. s. of vertere to turn). As Robert Creeley puts it, "Verse turns, and takes turns in turning –– which are called verses, in my book, like changes –– and not those stanzas or stops, standstills" (Creeley 576). Now take something Creeley once wrote about why he identified with the Black Arts writers' political commitment ("They are not fooling, so to speak, and their action tends to follow the literal pattern of their commitment") and a broad vista of Afrocentrism and American poetry emerges (538). It is one which Thomas anticipates: "While the [Black Arts] movement rejected mainstream America's ideology," he notes, "Black Arts poets maintained and developed the prosody that they had acquired from Black Mountain and the Beats" (201). Thomas explains that this in no way contradicts (though it may complicate) the Afrocentrism or the "originality" of the Black Arts poets. Thomas insists throughout that Afrocentrism is not a "truth" about Africa but a polymorphous and effective form of symbolic action which draws on African as well as African-American sources; and "originality," as Zora Neale Hurston wrote, is another word for "the modifications of ideas" (Hurston 1025). Nor, however, does he suggest that, say, a white American poet might easily claim an Afrocentric heritage or positionality: again, "It's hard to say." "Afrocentrism" and "integration," both poetic and social, are involved in a complex dance in this book, and Thomas is a tricky choreographer. Is Braithwaite's "La Belle de Demerara," the poetic manifestation of "Caucasianized" values or a Signifying assertion of an Afro-Caribbean heritage? His work as an editor and his mastery of English metres might well be, like James Weldon Johnson's life and work, "a bold personal statement that 'defied political restrictions' intended to limit his creative expression"; but what if "English metres" are socially symbolic acts which unconsciously preserve the very "political restrictions" these writers intend to defy? "Integration" is vexed by this question as it is vexed by the fact that Braithwaite's erudition doesn't prevent Pound and Frost from calling him a "nigger" and doesn't exempt him from Jim Crow. Both "segregation" and "separation," meanwhile, are strained by the wild nature of American speech and the promiscuity of border zones. In Extraordinary Measures, Thomas reveals a vast ensemble of African American poets –– Tolson, Amiri Baraka, Harryette Mullen, Walker, Kalamu ya Salaam, Jarbari Aziz Ra and Erica Hunt to name only a few –– working within and through these words, their histories and possibilities. The aesthetic and the political are neither held a part nor dissolved into each other here –– as I said, it is a dance. And we trust Thomas to run us through it because, as anyone who has had even a brief conversation with him can tell you, his talk is like a hand, both friendly and dead serious, on your shoulder. Take what he says here about the description of Malcolm X's death in the Audubon Ballroom in David Henderson's "They Are Killing All the Young Men" –– its tone and intent –– as a last enticement to go get this book: Echoing the spiritual "Many Thousands Gone" in his poem, Henderson establishes the connection that is pinpointed by his allusion to the Audubon's unbreachable rental schedule. Commercial enterprise. The pig-meat emporiums of the Negro elite, with pictures of white politicians on their walls, are no different. Henderson said, chains of barbecue. You understand? WORKS CITED Creeley, Robert. The Collected Essays of Robert Creeley. Berkeley: University of California Press, 1989. Hurston, Zora Neale. "Characteristics of Negro Expression," in Henry Louis Gates Jr. and Nellie Y. McKay, ed., The Norton Anthology of African American Literature. New York: Norton, 1997. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 14:28:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: 14 Below - Wed, July 13; 5-7:30 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 14 BELOW at Tompkins Square Park Library Gallery July 13 – August 31 2005 Opening: July 13 5 - 7:30 pm Poetry: John Farris & Tom Savage Music: Charles Gayle Paintings by Grady Alexis / Thom Corn Pastel drawings by James Romberger Photography by John Ranard Internet installation by Jody Culkin Curator: John Ranard 14 Below is an exploration of art and environment through the mediums of paint, music, word, photography, in and out of cyberspace, that speaks to and from the late 80’s / early 90’s era in the history of downtown New York City. Arriving in the neighborhood from Louisville, Kentucky in 1985, John Ranard discovered a chaotic Hispanic enclave of boarded-up buildings with souls sleeping on the street in cardboard boxes; real estate agents appearing in taxis in search for the next big deal; artists, taking advantage of low rent, moving into store-front studios. In 1989, tents appeared in Tompkins Square Park as plywood shack villages were erected in vacant lots. Picking up the dissonance reflected off their studio walls, artists incorporated this into their work. This exhibition recreates this environment and showcases some of the art. 14 Below showcases the collaborative “voodoo” series executed by Thom Corn and the late Haitian-born Grady Alexis between 1988 and 1991. The paintings are intended as a statement of forward-thinking creative unity in the folkloric tradition of the African diaspora, updated and modernized on a large scale. Previously exhibited at Under Acme Gallery, Gallery Taller Latino Americano, and the Poets Café, these works will be on display again for the first time in fifteen years. James Romberger will exhibit his classic pastel drawings of iridescent people walking Loisida’s flotsam strewn streets John Ranard, a social documentary photographer, exhibits here a series of B&W photographs taken between 1989 and 1993 in the blocks east of Tompkins Square Park. A group of architectural landscape shots of rubble-strewn streets joins portraits of shantytown residents to create a poetic image of life in a time of flux in Alphabet City. Jody Culkin, whose sculptures, photographs, and installations have been exhibited throughout this country and internationally, will show a flash animation video that tells the story of the firebombing of the building she lives in by her landlord. The piece will be viewable online at http://www.clintonstreet.org/; screenshots will be exhibited at the library gallery. o accompany the visual exhibitions, Lower East Side bard John Farris will read from a short story collection, Raymundo del Mundo, and Tom Savage will read from his eighth book of poetry, Brain Surgery Poems (Linear Arts Books, 1999). Saxophonist Charles Gayle adds his free-form jazz to the evening’s entertainment. 14 Below will culminate with a special performance on August 24, part of the FEVA Howl! Festival, when poet Steve Dalachinsky will join violinist Mat Maneri and jazz pianist Matthew Shipp in performance. Made possible by Manhattan Community Arts Fund / New York City Department of Cultural Affairs Administered by the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council, A Gathering of the Tribes & Bloomberg LP For more information: jonik@johnranard.com Phone: 212-995-0017 Mobile: 646-416-1877 Grady Alexis Thom Corn Jody Culkin Steve Dalachinsky John Farris Charles Gayle Mat Maneri John Ranard James Romberger Tom Savage Matthew Shipp =(:>)+ John Ranard Social Documentary Photography www.JohnRanard.com 195 East 2nd St. 3D NYC, NY 10009 Phone: 212-995-0017 mobile: 646-416-1877 jonik@johnranard.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:42:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: yoshi: Vaya Con Dios (Go With God)' WMV Download MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/42712.php 'Vaya Con Dios (Go With God)' WMV Download I see people everyday, but they don't mean what they say. They keep hiding all their thoughts like the CIA. Top secret-prostitutes in Guantanamo Bay... Nobody listens to the poets of the day. Nobody gives a damn for their spiritual blessings I say, Mountainous regions, up in clouds made of hydrogen, Souds made of Gods wind, hip-hop- my oxygen. Venemous. When I spit my syllabus, Narrow-minded listeners who wanna get rid of us, I Stick my finger up, singer, I be infamous, Index, stroke the microphone so ridiculous, Spinnin' decks, choke the egotistical conspicuous, Inkjet precision, print visions so meticulous, Muy muy guapa, call me papa, spit vocipherous, Fire like you never felt, baby-kid-icarus. ... No rhymes left for the brain, so I maintain, Down in my pain, release emotions like Coltrane. Blast my solo out my soul, I control those. Golden Butterflies- I have visions in my eyes, I see people everyday, but they don't mean what they say. They keep hiding all their thoughts like the CIA. Top secret-prostitutes in Guantanamo Bay... Nobody listens to the poets of the day. Nobody gives a damn for their spiritual blessings I say, Rest in peace to Pope John Paul the 2nd. Rest in peace, even if you're alive, You got this sex-mad world trying to kill you with dollar-signs. There's only a few jedi-knights left that's scholars, I'm aspiring. Trying to be someone. Trying to make a difference, I'm perspiring like everyone else, I got my health, so you won't hear me whining for help. I go with God like Vaya Con Dios. Vaya Con Dios. Vaya Con Dios. --- Adios. Go with God. Allah make the plans, We stay open to emotion. A-dios, insha'Allah. Stay humble. All I know is that I know nothing. --- Sip my lucozade, Chill by the sunny day, Even though my teeth may decay, I'm feelin' okay. Lost love, gain love, gain bigger love. I said "I'm sick of love" but now I can't get enough. God bless the freaky flow that I go, I hope knowledge keeps spreading when I spit this spit dope. I walks everyday without a focus or microscope. Just glide to the library, ease down to borders, Spirited away to a hushed warm cafe where I, Write my lyrics, puke out my guts. They don't know what I'm feeling, As my pen runs wild, They don't know that Mr.Yoshi is a hip-hop child and I.. Don't really care, As I'm lost in the stare, I'm feeling deep, As I touch my heart and feel air. Piece of oxygen. I'm so, so often, Drifting to another world- spirit world, extra sensual world... And the dates taste good here. ANd these olives taste nice. And you can eat grapefruits without getting stuff inside your eyes. --- Adios. Go with God. Allah make the plans, We stay open to emotion. A-dios, insha'Allah. Stay humble. All I know is that I know nothing. --- Insha'Allah. . beat by V.Ramos aka Victrola words by Y.Misdaq..yoshi. download: http://www.nefisa.co.uk/Y.Misdaq-Vaya_Con_Dios_(Go_With_God).wma see also: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/06/41736.php http://www.nefisa.co.uk/FRAMESET_NEEEYUH.htm ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\\\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:06:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: book sale... In-Reply-To: <200507110402.j6B41KDx007001@c.mx.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm moving to India and need to sell everything.. and now the remnants of my books are at a deep discount... plus.. today.. for every $5.00 of books you buy you get a dollar off.. I will ship Media rate and let you know back channel the cost http://transdada3.blogspot.com/2005/07/books.html There's 50 books, here's some of them: Everyday Life in the Modern World by Henri Lefebvre $6.00 Book of Pleasures $10.00 By Raoul Vaneigem STERNE, Laurence, Illustrated by CLELAND, T,M. THE LIFE & OPINIONS OF TRISTRAM SHANDY, GENTLEMAN Norwalk, CT: The Heritage Press, 1963 $8.00 Triggers (Tombouctou Chapbook) $8.00 by Donald Guravich Reflex and Bone Structure: A Novel [Paperback] by Major, Clarence $3.00 Nomadic Subjects [Paperback] by Braidotti, Rosi $7.00 The Cheat of Words [Paperback] by McCaffery, Steve $4.00 Painted Elephant [Paperback] by Hartman, Jill $4.00 The Inveterate Life [Paperback] by Grim, Jessica $3.00 Crop [Paperback] by Morrison, Yedda Mari $5.00 Scenes of Life at the Capital by Whalen, Philip $3.00 C.C. [Paperback] by Williams, Tyrone $4.00 The Silhouette of the Bridge [Paperback] by Waldrop, Keith $3.00 The Fast [Paperback] by Weiner, Hannah $4.00 Discredit [Paperback] by Ngai, Sianne $4.00 EQUATIONS = equals (Green Integer) [Paperback] by Ross, Joe, LN. $4.00 TRI / VIA [Paperback] by Pierce, Michelle Naka; Corpuz, Veronica. LN, $5.00 Call Me Burroughs: William Burroughs [Audio CD] by Rhino Records. $7.00 Comp. [Paperback] by Davies, Kevin $7.00 Ring of Fire by Jarnot, Lisa. $6.00 Dispositions [Paperback] by Wark, McKenzie. $7.00 The Ayodhya Cantos: Poems [Hardcover] by Rukmini Bhaya Nair $8.00 In Memoriam to Postmodernism: Essays on the Avant-Pop by Mark Amerika, Lance Olsen $10.00 Other stuff at: http://transdada3.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:55:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: NEW BLOG ENTRIES & Final Bay Area Performance Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit New at PeasantBlog (more loose talk from yours truly, on a variety of "culture industry" topics, etc.... ***FALSE PROPHET by STEPHEN TAYLOR***(Book) ***MATSON JONES & CONSPIRACY OF BEARDS*** (bands) ***WWW.BandToBand.Com****(website) ***TYPED AT THE COMPUTER, BUT WRITTEN IN THE SUN (Parts One and 2)*** "I Am Waiting" (50 Years Later) Lorenzeo Thomas (1944-2005) Hey Baby It's The $th Of July East Coast Tour Thank Yous Was Robert Creeley "Stupid About Gender" http://blog.myspace.com/continuouspeasant Also, check out info for Continuous Peasant's last Bay Area show (this thursday July 14), and our west coast tour (from San Diego to British Columbia) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 01:10:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: RE: July 16 Show blurbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Saturday July 16 Ed Chang's Place at 226 East 2nd St, #5D, NYC (betw Ave B & C) Music begins at 7pm. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Diana Wayburn (flute), Ty Cumbie(gtr), Matt Hannafin(perc) Trio ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Steve Dalachinsky Reading ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Rich Gross (w sound projection by Han Degc) Steel Guitar and effects www.spin17.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 03:02:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: This week on ::fait accompli: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ::fait accompli:: is http:nickpiombino.blogspot.com {click here} scroll down to Monday, July 11, for Process and Object [in Wittgenstein's *Zettel*: Literary Currents in W and Freud]; Saturday, July 9 for:* Poetry and Thinking: Thinking for Oneself* in *Zettel*; also Limetree, Bemsha Swing and :fait accompli: in the Bemsha Swing comments section; Friday, July 8, *Love is Not A Feeling*: love put to the test in *Zettel*; Thursday, July 7: *The Most Astounding Things are Possible*: Thought and The Infinite in *Zettel*] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:27:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: altered books project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The altered books project at: http://www.logolalia.com/alteredbooks/ has been updated with new work by: Michelle Taransky, Nico Vassilakis, Sheila E. Murphy, Marlea J. Waber, Jim Leftwich, Holly Crawford, and Fran Hill. Enjoy, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:22:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Gustaf Sobin NYT obit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > July 12, 2005 > > Gustaf Sobin, 69, a Writer Who Celebrated Provence, Is Dead > > By KATHRYN SHATTUCK > > > Gustaf Sobin, an American-born writer who for more than 40 years wove=20= > the history, sensations and language of his adopted Provence into his=20= > poetry and prose, died on July 7 at a hospital in Cavaillon, Vaucluse,=20= > near his home in Goult in the south of France. He was 69. > > The cause was pancreatic cancer, his wife, Susannah Sobin, said. > > Mr. Sobin (pronounced SO-bin) saw himself principally as a poet, but=20= > his greatest popularity came with a novel, "The Fly-Truffler" (W. W.=20= > Norton, 2000). > > Set on a family farm, the short novel follows Philippe Cabassac, a=20 > loner nearing 50 who lectures on the fading Proven=E7al dialect at the=20= > University of Avignon, as he tumbles into madness over the loss of his=20= > wife, Julieta, who died two years earlier. A beautiful student half=20 > his age, Julieta had become disconnected from life after a failed=20 > pregnancy. Cabassac discovers that his nightly ritual of eating=20 > truffles predisposes him to dreams of his beloved. And so each winter=20= > he wanders his property, patting the earth with a little whisk broom=20= > to rouse "lei mousco," the golden flies that reveal the buried=20 > truffles - "far more carnal, fleshy, gamelike than anything vegetal." > > Reviewing Mr. Sobin's "marvelous, mesmerizing new novel" in The New=20 > York Times, Christopher Lehmann-Haupt called it "one of those rare,=20 > haunting novels that you consume in a single sitting and that you put=20= > down wondering what day it is and where you are, as if awakening from=20= > one of Cabassac's enrapturing dreams." > > Born in Boston on Nov. 15, 1935, Mr. Sobin graduated from Brown=20 > University in 1957, by which time he had traveled extensively in=20 > Europe and visited Ernest Hemingway in Cuba, not far from his parents'=20= > second home in Palm Beach. > > Mr. Sobin said that Hemingway, at once entirely American and=20 > "consummately expatriate," was "the bridge" between continents, "the=20= > gateway out." As an aspiring poet, Mr. Sobin strove to emulate him. In=20= > 1962, Mr. Sobin arrived in Paris where he almost immediately met Ren=E9=20= > Char, a French poet whom he admired greatly. "If you love my poetry,=20= > you must visit Provence," Char told him, "because my poetry comes of=20= > out the earth, the land and the light." > > Mr. Sobin journeyed south and found the sense of place that had eluded=20= > him during his childhood in New England. He bought an abandoned silk=20= > cocoonery in the village of Goult, in the Vaucluse, for $800 and lived=20= > off the $2,000 annual income from a trust fund. > > "I learnt how to read the landscape as one might read a text," Mr.=20 > Sobin recollected of his adopted countryside, "a textus, a woven=20 > fabric." > > A close associate of Char, Mr. Sobin nonetheless found the=20 > relationship severed for a time, when in 1968 he bucked his mentor's=20= > belief that a poet is wed only to himself and married the English=20 > painter Susannah Bott. That year she gave birth to their daughter,=20 > Esther; their son, Gabriel, was born in 1971. In December 1972, after=20= > a decade of incubation, Mr. Sobin wrote what he considered his first=20= > poem. After issuing a number of chapbooks, his first major book of=20 > poetry, "Wind Chrysalid's Rattle," was published in 1980 by Montemora. > > In all, Mr. Sobin published more than a dozen books of poetry, four=20 > novels, a children's story and two compilations of essays, the second=20= > to be issued next spring. He was working on a collection of poems and=20= > a project about Provence with the photographer James Hajicek at his=20 > death. > > In addition to his wife and children, all of Provence, he is survived=20= > by a brother, Harris Sobin, of Tucson. > Halvard Johnson halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:20:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: "Myoe's Big Dream" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Myoe's Big Dream" premiered at the 2nd International Academic = Conference of Analytical Psychology & Jungian Studies, Texas A&M = University, College Station, TX., July 7-10, 2005. It can now be seen at: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Myoe/title.htm Screen Resolution: 1020x768, 32 bit color. Browser: Explorer or Avant preferred. Text size: Medium. There's a bit of shakuhachi music by Kohachiro Miyata on the first = screen. -Joel __________________________________ Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, Oregon Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 On-Line Archive: www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:48:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: PoetrySz:demystifying mental illness Retrospective issue Comments: To: Women Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit PoetrySz:demystifying mental illness 5th year Retrospective issue is now online at http://www.poetrysz.net. Submissions for subsequent issues are welcome. Send 3-6 poems in the body of your email to poetrysz@yahoo.com . Thanks. regards J Chan editor, PoetrySz http://www.poetrysz.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 02:25:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bircumshaw Subject: Re: About the Poetics List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alexander; >I suspect if one were to post on POETICS a poem that broke new ground in either presentation, or form or metrical stanzaic pattern, or if one wrote a poem that excited even the nearly dead intellects such as I by either its wit or its originality, no one of the moderators, editors, authorities on the list would dare excommunicate the creator of such works< Rather too much of literary history, and even more of observation of spiderWeb poetry lists, suggests to me that reactions to such works would be dependent on shared group perceptions of the status of their originator, the 'groups' in question being the shadowy networks of alliances, alignments, oppositions and enmity that ghost the navigation of poetry into public space. Poetry, like the other arts, and sciences, and in fact more or less all forms of human collectivity, is as status obsessed as Jane Goodall's chimps, it is not so much a matter of either what you know or who you know but who you are seen to be, the agency of that seeing being as impossible to describe as which fish turns first in school or shoal. The probabilities are that if someone posted something on this or other lists that 'broke new ground' etc that it would be as likely that no-one would say anything if the presenter was not a somehow favourably viewed or well-allied individual. >In my opinion, more often than we perhaps care to recognize, creative souls run rough-shod over rules, ignoring them right and left no matter who posted the edict. And they do that not out of disrespect for rules but rather because they find rules restrict the creative process they are driven to practice, and their drive to create is greater than their drive to conform.< Quite likely, but unfortunately the dissociated nature of cybernetic 'communities' makes it even easier for 'uncreative' souls to 'pull the plug', issue the ban, answer questions with all the force of silence. My Modest Proposal is that the Poetics List unbundle itself - for example one could have a Noticeboard for all those worthy notices of events that most of the members live nowhere in the vicinity of, and for the important matter of forthcoming publications; A List Called Alan (joke) for creative outpourings; a Small Ads for those in search of a New York sub-let, and a Poetics List for the discussion of Poetics (whatever that may be). Anyhow, I am wearying a little now and feel another etc threatening in the western skies, something of that sort. Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "alexander saliby" To: Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:17 PM Subject: Re: About the Poetics List Tod, et alles, The rules against: "...this is the most unkindest cut of all..." came after the fact of the creative writing. Rules are made for following, unless: ignoring, destroying, abhorring them harms no one but yourself, in which case, screw the rules! In my opinion, more often than we perhaps care to recognize, creative souls run rough-shod over rules, ignoring them right and left no matter who posted the edict. And they do that not out of disrespect for rules but rather because they find rules restrict the creative process they are driven to practice, and their drive to create is greater than their drive to conform. I suspect if one were to post on POETICS a poem that broke new ground in either presentation, or form or metrical stanzaic pattern, or if one wrote a poem that excited even the nearly dead intellects such as I by either its wit or its originality, no one of the moderators, editors, authorities on the list would dare excommunicate the creator of such works. Here though is the essence of the list to date: Po'ms tomes silence brilliance xfe fex so paints the saints But, rules aside, perhaps the real problem with the list is not the edict banning poetry; rather it is the failure of the moderators/editors on the list to realize that there can be no discussion of poetics and poetry without poetry itself...how sad. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Tod Edgerton To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: Re: About the Poetics List Dan, you're making the whole issue of "published" much more complicated than it actually is. No self-published works would be an acceptable rule to me, but so would including self-published works by authors other than oneself. Leaves of Grass, obviously, has been published and republished by many other people than Walt for a long time. I don't believe that it does happen a lot that editors of highly respected presses publish their own books. There are a few exceptions, like Scalapino, who published Crowd and not evening or light through her O Books. If it's a respected press, then include it. If you think it's an amazing work that someone unfortunately had to publish themselves, include it. Rules are guidelines, not absolutes, and people always take liberties. I've definitely seen poems on this list, as it is. Quote from blogs--why not? Quote from online galleries and journals that include electronic, multimedia, and hybrid works. Now just how much is excluded? Any parameters will necessarily exclude something, but some limits are necessary. I don't think it's as complicated as you find it to be, I don't personally find the issue of what constitututes "published" all that interesting or complex, rather a bit tedious. It really is a matter of common sense. Your splitting hairs with nothing more at stake than whether you can "officially" quote a certain poem on this list that might be excluded from the rules. But I do agree with you that it seems odd (at best) for a poetics list to institute a complete moratorium on the inclusion of poems... Maybe the old 50 posts per day limit would work again, though. Does anyone know why this was abandoned originally? I suppose I can imagine that, with around 10000 participants, many people might never get to the head of the line, and that might be more of a problem. So, yes, how 'bout changing the rules a bit? Best, Tod Dan Waber > wrote: Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > As someone relatively new to the list, I can say without reservation > that I do not want my e-mail inundated with endless streams of bad > poetry. Who does? I'm not entirely convinced that was the motivation behind going poemless, but even if it was, it seems ill-advised for the solution to be, "all right then, NO poems at all". But, this is a very American response, now that I think of it. We like the easy solution of eliminating the good with the bad in the name of saving us from the bad. The examples are legion. > Published poems can be referenced, links cut and pasted, in > the course of a discussion of specific poems. I, personally, > however, would be in favor of allowing the citation of published > poems in whole or part, but not unpublished. I'm curious, how would you define "published"? Does self-publishing count (Leaves of Grass)? What if you're a highly respected press and you publish a manuscript of your own through your own press (this happens a lot)? How about if it's on a blog (the choices are too many to pick this early)? How about in the comments of a blog? What about posted to a series of listservs reaching a total number of people greater than the circulation of Poetry (Alan Sondheim, August Highland, Lanny Quarles, mez, etc)? What constitutes the publishing of a piece of hypermedia (Jim Andrews)? Do we only talk about things published by Seagate? What about a poet who declaims all publication entirely (Jesse Taylor for the 20 years up until this week)? The welcome message for the Poetics list says that posting to this list is itself considered by the Editorial Board as a form of publication. I can't imagine a criteria for what would legitimately constitute "published" that wouldn't also exclude at least as much vital work as it includes. Particularly now, in this very exciting time of the digital dancing with literature, on a digitally facilitated list, the kind of work this list's welcome message says its open to is often (but certainly not exclusively) precisely the kind of work that is non-publishable, or apublished, or is in the act of birthing a whole new definition of what published means. Even if a workable definition could be found, I think a list that claims to be open to the impossible in theory, but in practice only allows the citation of the published is untenable. I also think the notion of what constitutes "published" today is one of the most exciting questions in all of literature. I am the type of person who doesn't really do very well at talking about that question. I am pretty good, however, at thinking of different ways to say "well, how about this!?" And I think it's essential to the dialog to include people of both kinds. Without the former, the discussion will probably never really happen in any kind of structured way, and without the latter, the discussion would never have come up in the first place because there would have been no deviation from the norm anyway. Lively discussion requires both sides. > I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to discuss > experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become a > forum for "open mic" publication. Once word got out, the list would > really be ruined. Not really. The list was an open mic for a decade and the simple measures of limiting individuals to 2 posts per day and the entire list to 50 posts per day was effective at stopping the "if no one minds, I'll just go ahead and read a dozen more" syndrome. And I think there is no better way to say you're NOT interested in the new and emerging, the experimental and the impossible, than to say you've given up on open readings. Yeah, they can be painfully bad sometimes. But they are also sometimes brilliant, engaging, and instructive in the art of being human. > Discussing "received forms" does not refer to workshopping or > otherwise discussing poems received from listserv participants, but > to interrogating the uses and relevance of traditional, "closed" > forms like the sestina or pantoum in the contemporary > cultural/political context. So, yes, "recieved" does mean something > completely different than what you read it to mean. Cool, I was unfamiliar with that usage, thank you. > It would be nice to have more engaged, rigorous discussions and > debates than I've seen so far, but wouldn't it be a better strategy > to start one than to try to critique the editorial statement/welcome > message Absolutely this would be better. And this is precisely why I suggested that the Editorial Board do some of that discussion starting. Because in an environment where there is this much control coming from the top, you don't find a lot of people stepping up to test out whether any given topic is going to end up causing a rule change on them. It may be of interest to note here that I've had far more back channel responses of support than total responses on the list. Why would that be? Because people are more comfortable with it. And if the goal here is to encourage discussion, that's a failure. And, actually, I believe have started a more engaged, rigorous discussion and debate. I've even mentioned published poems in it. > (I suppose this applies to me, here, now, equally...maybe > I'll give that a try in the morning...)? I'm sure the exchange of > original work among a small group of highly talented and intelligent > participants must have been exciting and invigorating in its time, > and I'm pissed I missed out. However, this list is not that one; > this list is far too big to manage that, I think, so I understand > the need for setting parameters. But perhaps they could be revised > to allow the inclusion of already published works in support of > arguments made in expository prose; I see no harm in that. I see no harm either. If that's the direction they want to go, great. That's why I offered as suggestion #1 that the welcome message be reworded to more accurately reflect the reality of the situation. If the list is too big (though I don't think it is), and the Editorial Board wants to limit discussion to works that are only as impossible as can be managed within the confines of a print publication produced by a known and reputable press, they should say so. Because wearing the cape of Defender of the Impossible when you don't have the rest of the suit on, makes you look a little underdressed when you fly over the local neighborhoods. I'm not saying this goal/approach has no or even less value than any other approach. I'm saying that organizational groupings of all kinds have a tendency to attract the kind of people they say they want. I think what is wanted here has necessarily evolved over the years, and the welcome message has not evolved gracefully along with it. I'm a poet, so I want the words to be right. Dan There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding. - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:29:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Book Sale in Portland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For all of you in Portland, Oregon Friends of C.G. Jung is having a Big = Book Sale this Saturday (July 16) from Noon to 4 P.M. All kinds of books, including Jungian, of course, hundreds of Jungian = journals, also records and other stuff. Incredible prices, most of it = from $1.00 - $5.00. The sale is on the corner of NW 20th Ave. and = Johnson. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:39:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Cross Subject: New Atticus/Finch Chapbook! Donovan and Schlesinger's _Mantle_! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Atticus/Finch is pleased to announce the release of its fifth (and first collaborative) chapbook, _Mantle_, by Thom Donovan and Kyle Schlesinger. What began as a meditative conversation on the work of George Oppen quickly found its form as POETRY: i.e. thought as action / discourse / community. The poem “poms” to and fro, suspended in the still of Oppen’s clarity and truth, materializing out of the endemic conditions of “response” as immediate (mediated) affect/effect- ive rest-full-ness. The result, needless to say, is a dizzying articulation of palimpsestual “preservation” (read: “PROGRESS”). Our discerning customers will recognize Schlesinger as the editor of Kiosk magazine and Cuneiform Press. Add Donovan (a chimerical seer of sorts: one part Zukofsky, one part Taggart, one part seriously gifted occult-ured medium) to the short list of poets who strike like a brick out of ether! Jesse Seldess writes of _Mantle_: These “vivid section”[s] much more than divide or connect. They are an intertaking portraiture of “What conveys you.” In extension of Oppen’s thing among things, Schlesinger and Donovan’s exchange treads and, in treading, covers and finds itself covered, reflexively constituting the extent to which we are “Too particular to place.” Gregg Biglieri, with characteristic brevity, adds: _Mantle_ is not simply a collaborative poem, but rather a dialogue of sight and sound, a duet performed between two tightrope walkers, Bach- to-Bach. The fugue is the form that makes what appears far away seem but between. It is sung in unison, seen in the seams, sewn in chromatic scales, and “visible in / a divisible stretch for” what is nameless in things. Insomnia is not an ambient environment, it’s chronic. Where Hegel says “Now is night,” we hear “Nocturne around.” The proper way to read this poem is neither to zoom in nor fade out, but rather to not fade away. If someone says “Speech acts,” remember to ask what role it plays? If we understand that “Optics chooses some and not others,” perhaps acoustics chisels down those who stand under a jetty—ears wide shut. As you read this poem you might feel “as if you were not a camera,” but a conch, and the mistake you will be making is trying to hear the ocean through your eyes. But “your means mine” and so this poem is about what moves through us as we read “Our names only” into these “divides stills.” Here we stand knowing that no one’s cleft standing. ***What’s more, clocking in at just over fifty pages, this mammoth volume makes for one serious $6 chapbook. As always, Atticus/Finch recognizes the worth of your hard-earned cash! Put a check in the mail NOW before this thing implodes under the weight of its own concentration! ATTICUS/FINCH CHAPBOOKS c/o Michael Cross State University of New York at Buffalo Samuel Clemens Hall #306 Buffalo, New York 14260-4610 While you’re at it, pick up new chaps by Elizabeth Willis, Tanya Brolaski, and Eli Drabman (all of which are quickly disappearing, FOREVER!). AND, look for Gregg Biglieri’s _I Heart My Zeppelin_ and Lisa Jarnot’s _Iliad, Book XXIV_ in the very REAL and NEAR future. Visit www.atticusfinch.org for more information. While we wait patiently for _Mantle_ samples to magically appear on our website (thanks to our good friend Jerrold Shiroma!), see below for some titillating snippets (formatted incorrectly due to the “sense- less” shortcomings of email technology!). 34 Staccato trunked altruism misdemeanor and referral Wind’s ends drain once loosened leaves skimmed Thinking the infinite singular sheiks to pluralism, acropolis parole. Impossible applause thinking the opposite Retraction self-leveling cement Emigrants delimiting the imagination This emergent occasion. Shells lock Detect What held the case Sky The horizon holds On the edge of the event of this Burnt and but a sample Thumbnail sketch or sample of a thumbnail What would have been the event of not cutting her long hair Or the unthinkable: Going before them Substituting them for you 38 Burrows between provisional reams Speaking to a haunt To a halt. Time demurrals the gulf yet an aggregate remains an abysmal acquiesce. Wider horizons Tell chamber or horn Or burnt or crushed solitude Fire I wasn’t at I could not be of And fire I was How to save What we were and What we may be “the sun fixes // the mist” Funes’ trajectories Survey beams As we landed Initials landing Zones of site Sequoia sediment not Sentiment not grief of Cut (Cut) under it (a) Tiny tiny tiny hubbed Pivot Sun fixes Appearance the Lake at the bottom Volcanic once ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: h.c@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Holly Crawford Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 11 Jul 2005 to 12 Jul 2005 (#2005-192) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > [Original Message] > From: Automatic digest processor > To: Recipients of POETICS digests > Date: 7/13/2005 12:00:54 AM > Subject: POETICS Digest - 11 Jul 2005 to 12 Jul 2005 (#2005-192) > > There are 8 messages totalling 576 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. Fw: RE: July 16 Show blurbs > 2. This week on ::fait accompli: > 3. altered books project > 4. Gustaf Sobin NYT obit > 5. "Myoe's Big Dream" > 6. PoetrySz:demystifying mental illness Retrospective issue > 7. About the Poetics List > 8. Book Sale in Portland > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 01:10:47 -0400 > From: Steve Dalachinksy > Subject: Fw: RE: July 16 Show blurbs > > Saturday July 16 > > Ed Chang's Place > at 226 East 2nd St, #5D, NYC (betw Ave B & C) > > Music begins at 7pm. > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Diana Wayburn (flute), Ty > Cumbie(gtr), Matt Hannafin(perc) > Trio > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Steve Dalachinsky > Reading > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Rich Gross (w sound projection by > Han Degc) > Steel Guitar and effects > > www.spin17.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 03:02:36 -0400 > From: Nick Piombino > Subject: This week on ::fait accompli: > > ::fait accompli:: > is http:nickpiombino.blogspot.com {click here} > > scroll down to > > Monday, July 11, > for Process and Object [in > Wittgenstein's *Zettel*: > Literary Currents > in W and Freud]; > Saturday, July 9 > for:* Poetry and Thinking: > Thinking for Oneself* > in *Zettel*; also > Limetree, Bemsha Swing > and :fait accompli: in the > Bemsha Swing comments > section; Friday, July 8, > *Love is Not A Feeling*: > love put to the test in > *Zettel*; Thursday, > July 7: *The Most > Astounding Things are > Possible*: Thought and > The Infinite in *Zettel*] > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:27:49 -0400 > From: Dan Waber > Subject: altered books project > > The altered books project at: > > http://www.logolalia.com/alteredbooks/ > > has been updated with new work by: > > Michelle Taransky, Nico Vassilakis, Sheila E. Murphy, Marlea J. Waber, > Jim Leftwich, Holly Crawford, and Fran Hill. > > Enjoy, > Dan > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:22:29 -0400 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Gustaf Sobin NYT obit > > > July 12, 2005 > > > > Gustaf Sobin, 69, a Writer Who Celebrated Provence, Is Dead > > > > By KATHRYN SHATTUCK > > > > > > Gustaf Sobin, an American-born writer who for more than 40 years wove=20= > > > the history, sensations and language of his adopted Provence into his=20= > > > poetry and prose, died on July 7 at a hospital in Cavaillon, Vaucluse,=20= > > > near his home in Goult in the south of France. He was 69. > > > > The cause was pancreatic cancer, his wife, Susannah Sobin, said. > > > > Mr. Sobin (pronounced SO-bin) saw himself principally as a poet, but=20= > > > his greatest popularity came with a novel, "The Fly-Truffler" (W. W.=20= > > > Norton, 2000). > > > > Set on a family farm, the short novel follows Philippe Cabassac, a=20 > > loner nearing 50 who lectures on the fading Proven=E7al dialect at the=20= > > > University of Avignon, as he tumbles into madness over the loss of his=20= > > > wife, Julieta, who died two years earlier. A beautiful student half=20 > > his age, Julieta had become disconnected from life after a failed=20 > > pregnancy. Cabassac discovers that his nightly ritual of eating=20 > > truffles predisposes him to dreams of his beloved. And so each winter=20= > > > he wanders his property, patting the earth with a little whisk broom=20= > > > to rouse "lei mousco," the golden flies that reveal the buried=20 > > truffles - "far more carnal, fleshy, gamelike than anything vegetal." > > > > Reviewing Mr. Sobin's "marvelous, mesmerizing new novel" in The New=20 > > York Times, Christopher Lehmann-Haupt called it "one of those rare,=20 > > haunting novels that you consume in a single sitting and that you put=20= > > > down wondering what day it is and where you are, as if awakening from=20= > > > one of Cabassac's enrapturing dreams." > > > > Born in Boston on Nov. 15, 1935, Mr. Sobin graduated from Brown=20 > > University in 1957, by which time he had traveled extensively in=20 > > Europe and visited Ernest Hemingway in Cuba, not far from his parents'=20= > > > second home in Palm Beach. > > > > Mr. Sobin said that Hemingway, at once entirely American and=20 > > "consummately expatriate," was "the bridge" between continents, "the=20= > > > gateway out." As an aspiring poet, Mr. Sobin strove to emulate him. In=20= > > > 1962, Mr. Sobin arrived in Paris where he almost immediately met Ren=E9=20= > > > Char, a French poet whom he admired greatly. "If you love my poetry,=20= > > > you must visit Provence," Char told him, "because my poetry comes of=20= > > > out the earth, the land and the light." > > > > Mr. Sobin journeyed south and found the sense of place that had eluded=20= > > > him during his childhood in New England. He bought an abandoned silk=20= > > > cocoonery in the village of Goult, in the Vaucluse, for $800 and lived=20= > > > off the $2,000 annual income from a trust fund. > > > > "I learnt how to read the landscape as one might read a text," Mr.=20 > > Sobin recollected of his adopted countryside, "a textus, a woven=20 > > fabric." > > > > A close associate of Char, Mr. Sobin nonetheless found the=20 > > relationship severed for a time, when in 1968 he bucked his mentor's=20= > > > belief that a poet is wed only to himself and married the English=20 > > painter Susannah Bott. That year she gave birth to their daughter,=20 > > Esther; their son, Gabriel, was born in 1971. In December 1972, after=20= > > > a decade of incubation, Mr. Sobin wrote what he considered his first=20= > > > poem. After issuing a number of chapbooks, his first major book of=20 > > poetry, "Wind Chrysalid's Rattle," was published in 1980 by Montemora. > > > > In all, Mr. Sobin published more than a dozen books of poetry, four=20 > > novels, a children's story and two compilations of essays, the second=20= > > > to be issued next spring. He was working on a collection of poems and=20= > > > a project about Provence with the photographer James Hajicek at his=20 > > death. > > > > In addition to his wife and children, all of Provence, he is survived=20= > > > by a brother, Harris Sobin, of Tucson. > > > > Halvard Johnson > halvard@earthlink.net > halvard@gmail.com > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:20:39 -0700 > From: Joel Weishaus > Subject: "Myoe's Big Dream" > > "Myoe's Big Dream" premiered at the 2nd International Academic = > Conference of Analytical Psychology & Jungian Studies, Texas A&M = > University, College Station, TX., July 7-10, 2005. > > It can now be seen at: > http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Myoe/title.htm > > Screen Resolution: 1020x768, 32 bit color. > Browser: Explorer or Avant preferred. Text size: Medium. > There's a bit of shakuhachi music by Kohachiro Miyata on the first = > screen. > > -Joel > > __________________________________ > > Joel Weishaus > Visiting Faculty > Department of English > Portland State University > Portland, Oregon > > Homepage: > http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 > On-Line Archive: > www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:48:08 -0700 > From: JT Chan > Subject: PoetrySz:demystifying mental illness Retrospective issue > > PoetrySz:demystifying mental illness 5th year Retrospective issue is now online > at http://www.poetrysz.net. > > Submissions for subsequent issues are welcome. Send 3-6 poems in the body of > your email to poetrysz@yahoo.com . > > Thanks. > > regards > > J Chan > editor, PoetrySz > http://www.poetrysz.net > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 02:25:18 -0700 > From: David Bircumshaw > Subject: Re: About the Poetics List > > Alexander; > > >I suspect if one were to post on POETICS a poem that broke new ground in > either presentation, or form or metrical stanzaic pattern, or if one wrote a > poem that excited even the nearly dead intellects such as I by either its > wit or its originality, no one of the moderators, editors, authorities on > the list would dare excommunicate the creator of such works< > > Rather too much of literary history, and even more of observation of > spiderWeb poetry lists, suggests to me that reactions to such works would be > dependent on shared group perceptions of the status of their originator, the > 'groups' in question being the shadowy networks of alliances, alignments, > oppositions and enmity that ghost the navigation of poetry into public > space. Poetry, like the other arts, and sciences, and in fact more or less > all forms of human collectivity, is as status obsessed as Jane Goodall's > chimps, it is not so much a matter of either what you know or who you know > but who you are seen to be, the agency of that seeing being as impossible to > describe as which fish turns first in school or shoal. The probabilities are > that if someone posted something on this or other lists that 'broke new > ground' etc that it would be as likely that no-one would say anything if the > presenter was not a somehow favourably viewed or well-allied individual. > > >In my opinion, more often than we perhaps care to recognize, creative souls > run rough-shod over rules, ignoring them right and left no matter who posted > the edict. And they do that not out of disrespect for rules but rather > because they find rules restrict the creative process they are driven to > practice, and their drive to create is greater than their drive to conform.< > > Quite likely, but unfortunately the dissociated nature of cybernetic > 'communities' makes it even easier for 'uncreative' souls to 'pull the > plug', issue the ban, answer questions with all the force of silence. > > My Modest Proposal is that the Poetics List unbundle itself - for example > one could have a Noticeboard for all those worthy notices of events that > most of the members live nowhere in the vicinity of, and for the important > matter of forthcoming publications; A List Called Alan (joke) for creative > outpourings; a Small Ads for those in search of a New York sub-let, and a > Poetics List for the discussion of Poetics (whatever that may be). > > Anyhow, I am wearying a little now and feel another etc threatening in the > western skies, something of that sort. > > > Best > > Dave > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "alexander saliby" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:17 PM > Subject: Re: About the Poetics List > > > Tod, et alles, > > The rules against: "...this is the most unkindest cut of all..." came after > the fact of the creative writing. > > Rules are made for following, unless: ignoring, destroying, abhorring them > harms no one but yourself, in which case, screw the rules! > > In my opinion, more often than we perhaps care to recognize, creative souls > run rough-shod over rules, ignoring them right and left no matter who posted > the edict. And they do that not out of disrespect for rules but rather > because they find rules restrict the creative process they are driven to > practice, and their drive to create is greater than their drive to conform. > > I suspect if one were to post on POETICS a poem that broke new ground in > either presentation, or form or metrical stanzaic pattern, or if one wrote a > poem that excited even the nearly dead intellects such as I by either its > wit or its originality, no one of the moderators, editors, authorities on > the list would dare excommunicate the creator of such works. > > Here though is the essence of the list to date: > > Po'ms > tomes > > silence > brilliance > > xfe > fex > so paints the saints > > But, rules aside, perhaps the real problem with the list is not the edict > banning poetry; rather it is the failure of the moderators/editors on the > list to realize that there can be no discussion of poetics and poetry > without poetry itself...how sad. > Alex > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Tod Edgerton > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:02 AM > Subject: Re: About the Poetics List > > > Dan, you're making the whole issue of "published" much more complicated > than it actually is. No self-published works would be an acceptable rule to > me, but so would including self-published works by authors other than > oneself. Leaves of Grass, obviously, has been published and republished by > many other people than Walt for a long time. I don't believe that it does > happen a lot that editors of highly respected presses publish their own > books. There are a few exceptions, like Scalapino, who published Crowd and > not evening or light through her O Books. If it's a respected press, then > include it. If you think it's an amazing work that someone unfortunately had > to publish themselves, include it. Rules are guidelines, not absolutes, and > people always take liberties. I've definitely seen poems on this list, as it > is. Quote from blogs--why not? Quote from online galleries and journals that > include electronic, multimedia, and hybrid works. Now just how much is > excluded? Any parameters > will > necessarily exclude something, but some limits are necessary. I don't > think it's as complicated as you find it to be, I don't personally find the > issue of what constitututes "published" all that interesting or complex, > rather a bit tedious. It really is a matter of common sense. Your splitting > hairs with nothing more at stake than whether you can "officially" quote a > certain poem on this list that might be excluded from the rules. > > But I do agree with you that it seems odd (at best) for a poetics list to > institute a complete moratorium on the inclusion of poems... > > Maybe the old 50 posts per day limit would work again, though. Does anyone > know why this was abandoned originally? I suppose I can imagine that, with > around 10000 participants, many people might never get to the head of the > line, and that might be more of a problem. > > So, yes, how 'bout changing the rules a bit? > > > Best, > > Tod > > Dan Waber > wrote: > Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > > As someone relatively new to the list, I can say without reservation > > that I do not want my e-mail inundated with endless streams of bad > > poetry. > > Who does? I'm not entirely convinced that was the motivation behind > going poemless, but even if it was, it seems ill-advised for the > solution to be, "all right then, NO poems at all". But, this is a very > American response, now that I think of it. We like the easy solution > of eliminating the good with the bad in the name of saving us from the > bad. The examples are legion. > > > Published poems can be referenced, links cut and pasted, in > > the course of a discussion of specific poems. I, personally, > > however, would be in favor of allowing the citation of published > > poems in whole or part, but not unpublished. > > I'm curious, how would you define "published"? Does self-publishing > count (Leaves of Grass)? What if you're a highly respected press and > you publish a manuscript of your own through your own press (this > happens a lot)? How about if it's on a blog (the choices are too many > to pick this early)? How about in the comments of a blog? What about > posted to a series of listservs reaching a total number of people > greater than the circulation of Poetry (Alan Sondheim, August > Highland, Lanny Quarles, mez, etc)? What constitutes the publishing of > a piece of hypermedia (Jim Andrews)? Do we only talk about things > published by Seagate? What about a poet who declaims all publication > entirely (Jesse Taylor for the 20 years up until this week)? > > The welcome message for the Poetics list says that posting to this > list is itself considered by the Editorial Board as a form of > publication. > > I can't imagine a criteria for what would legitimately constitute > "published" that wouldn't also exclude at least as much vital work as > it includes. > > Particularly now, in this very exciting time of the digital dancing > with literature, on a digitally facilitated list, the kind of work > this list's welcome message says its open to is often (but certainly > not exclusively) precisely the kind of work that is non-publishable, > or apublished, or is in the act of birthing a whole new definition of > what published means. > > Even if a workable definition could be found, I think a list that > claims to be open to the impossible in theory, but in practice only > allows the citation of the published is untenable. > > I also think the notion of what constitutes "published" today is one > of the most exciting questions in all of literature. I am the type of > person who doesn't really do very well at talking about that > question. I am pretty good, however, at thinking of different ways to > say "well, how about this!?" And I think it's essential to the dialog > to include people of both kinds. Without the former, the discussion > will probably never really happen in any kind of structured way, and > without the latter, the discussion would never have come up in the > first place because there would have been no deviation from the norm > anyway. Lively discussion requires both sides. > > > I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to discuss > > experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become a > > forum for "open mic" publication. Once word got out, the list would > > really be ruined. > > Not really. The list was an open mic for a decade and the simple > measures of limiting individuals to 2 posts per day and the entire > list to 50 posts per day was effective at stopping the "if no one > minds, I'll just go ahead and read a dozen more" syndrome. > > And I think there is no better way to say you're NOT interested in the > new and emerging, the experimental and the impossible, than to say > you've given up on open readings. Yeah, they can be painfully bad > sometimes. But they are also sometimes brilliant, engaging, and > instructive in the art of being human. > > > Discussing "received forms" does not refer to workshopping or > > otherwise discussing poems received from listserv participants, but > > to interrogating the uses and relevance of traditional, "closed" > > forms like the sestina or pantoum in the contemporary > > cultural/political context. So, yes, "recieved" does mean something > > completely different than what you read it to mean. > > Cool, I was unfamiliar with that usage, thank you. > > > It would be nice to have more engaged, rigorous discussions and > > debates than I've seen so far, but wouldn't it be a better strategy > > to start one than to try to critique the editorial statement/welcome > > message > > Absolutely this would be better. And this is precisely why I suggested > that the Editorial Board do some of that discussion starting. Because > in an environment where there is this much control coming from the > top, you don't find a lot of people stepping up to test out whether > any given topic is going to end up causing a rule change on them. It > may be of interest to note here that I've had far more back channel > responses of support than total responses on the list. Why would that > be? Because people are more comfortable with it. And if the goal here > is to encourage discussion, that's a failure. > > And, actually, I believe have started a more engaged, rigorous > discussion and debate. I've even mentioned published poems in it. > > > (I suppose this applies to me, here, now, equally...maybe > > I'll give that a try in the morning...)? I'm sure the exchange of > > original work among a small group of highly talented and intelligent > > participants must have been exciting and invigorating in its time, > > and I'm pissed I missed out. However, this list is not that one; > > this list is far too big to manage that, I think, so I understand > > the need for setting parameters. But perhaps they could be revised > > to allow the inclusion of already published works in support of > > arguments made in expository prose; I see no harm in that. > > I see no harm either. If that's the direction they want to go, > great. That's why I offered as suggestion #1 that the welcome message > be reworded to more accurately reflect the reality of the > situation. If the list is too big (though I don't think it is), and > the Editorial Board wants to limit discussion to works that are only > as impossible as can be managed within the confines of a print > publication produced by a known and reputable press, they should say > so. Because wearing the cape of Defender of the Impossible when you > don't have the rest of the suit on, makes you look a little > underdressed when you fly over the local neighborhoods. > > I'm not saying this goal/approach has no or even less value than any > other approach. I'm saying that organizational groupings of all kinds > have a tendency to attract the kind of people they say they want. I > think what is wanted here has necessarily evolved over the years, and > the welcome message has not evolved gracefully along with it. > > I'm a poet, so I want the words to be right. > > Dan > > > There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding. > > - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:29:07 -0700 > From: Joel Weishaus > Subject: Book Sale in Portland > > For all of you in Portland, Oregon Friends of C.G. Jung is having a Big = > Book Sale this Saturday (July 16) from Noon to 4 P.M. > All kinds of books, including Jungian, of course, hundreds of Jungian = > journals, also records and other stuff. Incredible prices, most of it = > from $1.00 - $5.00. The sale is on the corner of NW 20th Ave. and = > Johnson. > > -Joel > > ------------------------------ > > End of POETICS Digest - 11 Jul 2005 to 12 Jul 2005 (#2005-192) > ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 23:38:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: D. Bircumshaw's value add idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave, You wrote: "...it is not so much a matter of either what you know or who you know but who you are seen to be, the agency of that seeing being as = impossible to describe as which fish turns first in school or shoal. The probabilities = are that if someone posted something on this or other lists that 'broke new ground' etc that it would be as likely that no-one would say anything if = the presenter was not a somehow favourably viewed or well-allied = individual." Ah, how right you are... Not what but who are you to dare yourself a poet here to be=20 and now to share those thoughts with others on this list... You have few friends none in classrooms or editorial halls The Gall of it and you few others dare this blatant disobedience of random rules to share=20 Yet rejections warm your blood And too you wrote: "My Modest Proposal is that the Poetics List unbundle itself - for = example one could have a Noticeboard for all those worthy notices of events that most of the members live nowhere in the vicinity of, and for the = important matter of forthcoming publications; A List Called Alan (joke) for = creative outpourings; a Small Ads for those in search of a New York sub-let, and = a Poetics List for the discussion of Poetics (whatever that may be)." And here the brilliance of their plans shines through they add value to the list as in all they do=20 and too they may at least bring in some needed revenue... Alex=20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: David Bircumshaw=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 2:25 AM Subject: Re: About the Poetics List Alexander; >I suspect if one were to post on POETICS a poem that broke new ground = in either presentation, or form or metrical stanzaic pattern, or if one = wrote a poem that excited even the nearly dead intellects such as I by either = its wit or its originality, no one of the moderators, editors, authorities = on the list would dare excommunicate the creator of such works< Rather too much of literary history, and even more of observation of spiderWeb poetry lists, suggests to me that reactions to such works = would be dependent on shared group perceptions of the status of their = originator, the 'groups' in question being the shadowy networks of alliances, = alignments, oppositions and enmity that ghost the navigation of poetry into public space. Poetry, like the other arts, and sciences, and in fact more or = less all forms of human collectivity, is as status obsessed as Jane = Goodall's chimps, it is not so much a matter of either what you know or who you = know but who you are seen to be, the agency of that seeing being as = impossible to describe as which fish turns first in school or shoal. The = probabilities are that if someone posted something on this or other lists that 'broke = new ground' etc that it would be as likely that no-one would say anything = if the presenter was not a somehow favourably viewed or well-allied = individual. >In my opinion, more often than we perhaps care to recognize, creative = souls run rough-shod over rules, ignoring them right and left no matter who = posted the edict. And they do that not out of disrespect for rules but = rather because they find rules restrict the creative process they are driven = to practice, and their drive to create is greater than their drive to = conform.< Quite likely, but unfortunately the dissociated nature of cybernetic 'communities' makes it even easier for 'uncreative' souls to 'pull the plug', issue the ban, answer questions with all the force of silence. My Modest Proposal is that the Poetics List unbundle itself - for = example one could have a Noticeboard for all those worthy notices of events = that most of the members live nowhere in the vicinity of, and for the = important matter of forthcoming publications; A List Called Alan (joke) for = creative outpourings; a Small Ads for those in search of a New York sub-let, = and a Poetics List for the discussion of Poetics (whatever that may be). Anyhow, I am wearying a little now and feel another etc threatening in = the western skies, something of that sort. Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "alexander saliby" > To: = > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:17 PM Subject: Re: About the Poetics List Tod, et alles, The rules against: "...this is the most unkindest cut of all..." came = after the fact of the creative writing. Rules are made for following, unless: ignoring, destroying, abhorring = them harms no one but yourself, in which case, screw the rules! In my opinion, more often than we perhaps care to recognize, creative = souls run rough-shod over rules, ignoring them right and left no matter who = posted the edict. And they do that not out of disrespect for rules but = rather because they find rules restrict the creative process they are driven = to practice, and their drive to create is greater than their drive to = conform. I suspect if one were to post on POETICS a poem that broke new ground = in either presentation, or form or metrical stanzaic pattern, or if one = wrote a poem that excited even the nearly dead intellects such as I by either = its wit or its originality, no one of the moderators, editors, authorities = on the list would dare excommunicate the creator of such works. Here though is the essence of the list to date: Po'ms tomes silence brilliance xfe fex so paints the saints But, rules aside, perhaps the real problem with the list is not the = edict banning poetry; rather it is the failure of the moderators/editors on = the list to realize that there can be no discussion of poetics and poetry without poetry itself...how sad. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Tod = Edgerton> To: = POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: Re: About the Poetics List Dan, you're making the whole issue of "published" much more = complicated than it actually is. No self-published works would be an acceptable = rule to me, but so would including self-published works by authors other than oneself. Leaves of Grass, obviously, has been published and = republished by many other people than Walt for a long time. I don't believe that it = does happen a lot that editors of highly respected presses publish their = own books. There are a few exceptions, like Scalapino, who published Crowd = and not evening or light through her O Books. If it's a respected press, = then include it. If you think it's an amazing work that someone = unfortunately had to publish themselves, include it. Rules are guidelines, not = absolutes, and people always take liberties. I've definitely seen poems on this list, = as it is. Quote from blogs--why not? Quote from online galleries and = journals that include electronic, multimedia, and hybrid works. Now just how much is excluded? Any parameters will necessarily exclude something, but some limits are necessary. I = don't think it's as complicated as you find it to be, I don't personally = find the issue of what constitututes "published" all that interesting or = complex, rather a bit tedious. It really is a matter of common sense. Your = splitting hairs with nothing more at stake than whether you can "officially" = quote a certain poem on this list that might be excluded from the rules. But I do agree with you that it seems odd (at best) for a poetics = list to institute a complete moratorium on the inclusion of poems... Maybe the old 50 posts per day limit would work again, though. Does = anyone know why this was abandoned originally? I suppose I can imagine that, = with around 10000 participants, many people might never get to the head of = the line, and that might be more of a problem. So, yes, how 'bout changing the rules a bit? Best, Tod Dan Waber = >> wrote: Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > As someone relatively new to the list, I can say without = reservation > that I do not want my e-mail inundated with endless streams of bad > poetry. Who does? I'm not entirely convinced that was the motivation behind going poemless, but even if it was, it seems ill-advised for the solution to be, "all right then, NO poems at all". But, this is a = very American response, now that I think of it. We like the easy solution of eliminating the good with the bad in the name of saving us from = the bad. The examples are legion. > Published poems can be referenced, links cut and pasted, in > the course of a discussion of specific poems. I, personally, > however, would be in favor of allowing the citation of published > poems in whole or part, but not unpublished. I'm curious, how would you define "published"? Does self-publishing count (Leaves of Grass)? What if you're a highly respected press and you publish a manuscript of your own through your own press (this happens a lot)? How about if it's on a blog (the choices are too = many to pick this early)? How about in the comments of a blog? What about posted to a series of listservs reaching a total number of people greater than the circulation of Poetry (Alan Sondheim, August Highland, Lanny Quarles, mez, etc)? What constitutes the publishing = of a piece of hypermedia (Jim Andrews)? Do we only talk about things published by Seagate? What about a poet who declaims all publication entirely (Jesse Taylor for the 20 years up until this week)? The welcome message for the Poetics list says that posting to this list is itself considered by the Editorial Board as a form of publication. I can't imagine a criteria for what would legitimately constitute "published" that wouldn't also exclude at least as much vital work = as it includes. Particularly now, in this very exciting time of the digital dancing with literature, on a digitally facilitated list, the kind of work this list's welcome message says its open to is often (but certainly not exclusively) precisely the kind of work that is non-publishable, or apublished, or is in the act of birthing a whole new definition = of what published means. Even if a workable definition could be found, I think a list that claims to be open to the impossible in theory, but in practice only allows the citation of the published is untenable. I also think the notion of what constitutes "published" today is one of the most exciting questions in all of literature. I am the type = of person who doesn't really do very well at talking about that question. I am pretty good, however, at thinking of different ways = to say "well, how about this!?" And I think it's essential to the = dialog to include people of both kinds. Without the former, the discussion will probably never really happen in any kind of structured way, and without the latter, the discussion would never have come up in the first place because there would have been no deviation from the norm anyway. Lively discussion requires both sides. > I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to discuss > experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become a > forum for "open mic" publication. Once word got out, the list = would > really be ruined. Not really. The list was an open mic for a decade and the simple measures of limiting individuals to 2 posts per day and the entire list to 50 posts per day was effective at stopping the "if no one minds, I'll just go ahead and read a dozen more" syndrome. And I think there is no better way to say you're NOT interested in = the new and emerging, the experimental and the impossible, than to say you've given up on open readings. Yeah, they can be painfully bad sometimes. But they are also sometimes brilliant, engaging, and instructive in the art of being human. > Discussing "received forms" does not refer to workshopping or > otherwise discussing poems received from listserv participants, = but > to interrogating the uses and relevance of traditional, "closed" > forms like the sestina or pantoum in the contemporary > cultural/political context. So, yes, "recieved" does mean = something > completely different than what you read it to mean. Cool, I was unfamiliar with that usage, thank you. > It would be nice to have more engaged, rigorous discussions and > debates than I've seen so far, but wouldn't it be a better = strategy > to start one than to try to critique the editorial = statement/welcome > message Absolutely this would be better. And this is precisely why I = suggested that the Editorial Board do some of that discussion starting. = Because in an environment where there is this much control coming from the top, you don't find a lot of people stepping up to test out whether any given topic is going to end up causing a rule change on them. It may be of interest to note here that I've had far more back channel responses of support than total responses on the list. Why would = that be? Because people are more comfortable with it. And if the goal = here is to encourage discussion, that's a failure. And, actually, I believe have started a more engaged, rigorous discussion and debate. I've even mentioned published poems in it. > (I suppose this applies to me, here, now, equally...maybe > I'll give that a try in the morning...)? I'm sure the exchange of > original work among a small group of highly talented and = intelligent > participants must have been exciting and invigorating in its time, > and I'm pissed I missed out. However, this list is not that one; > this list is far too big to manage that, I think, so I understand > the need for setting parameters. But perhaps they could be revised > to allow the inclusion of already published works in support of > arguments made in expository prose; I see no harm in that. I see no harm either. If that's the direction they want to go, great. That's why I offered as suggestion #1 that the welcome = message be reworded to more accurately reflect the reality of the situation. If the list is too big (though I don't think it is), and the Editorial Board wants to limit discussion to works that are only as impossible as can be managed within the confines of a print publication produced by a known and reputable press, they should say so. Because wearing the cape of Defender of the Impossible when you don't have the rest of the suit on, makes you look a little underdressed when you fly over the local neighborhoods. I'm not saying this goal/approach has no or even less value than any other approach. I'm saying that organizational groupings of all = kinds have a tendency to attract the kind of people they say they want. I think what is wanted here has necessarily evolved over the years, = and the welcome message has not evolved gracefully along with it. I'm a poet, so I want the words to be right. Dan There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding. - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around = http://mail.yahoo.com> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:07:47 +0200 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: altered books project In-Reply-To: <86u0j06tnu.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I like these, and feel like trying it out myself, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing=20 star!=20 Friedrich Nietzsche=20 On 7/12/05, Dan Waber wrote:=20 >=20 > The altered books project at: >=20 > http://www.logolalia.com/alteredbooks/ >=20 > has been updated with new work by: >=20 > Michelle Taransky, Nico Vassilakis, Sheila E. Murphy, Marlea J. Waber, > Jim Leftwich, Holly Crawford, and Fran Hill. >=20 > Enjoy, > Dan > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:44:30 +0100 Reply-To: lisajarnot Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lisajarnot Subject: apartment for sublet, brooklyn, ny Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Poetics List Folks: could you please pass this along to interested parties? thanks, Lisa Jarnot one bedroom apartment available in williamsburg brooklyn for the month of august. near L train at Bedford Street. 4th floor walk-up. rent is $1200, negotiable. for more information contact Lisa at jarnot@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:26:01 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Reich Subject: Re: Question from Kazim Ali MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charlotte: Where can I look at this piece? I belong to a group called NYCC (New York Composers Conference) & they would like to start presenting multi-media works. They are friends of mine & I'm sort of an inactive member, basically because I don't have the imagination (or experience) for either composition or multi-media work. I'm trying to do an art-poetry piece with a friend in Chicago, but the distance makes it difficult. Thanks, Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:03:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Editors, Tarpaulin Sky" Subject: Reminder: Poetry & Fiction in the Park - T Sky Summer Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Note: Only four tent sites remain for Saturday night, should you want to camp.] TARPAULIN SKY READING AT COPAKE FALLS, NY, STATE PARK Tarpaulin Sky will sponsor a poetry and fiction reading at Taconic State Park at Copake Falls, NY, Saturday, July 16th, at 6PM. Featured readers include Robyn Art, Barbara DeCesare, Elena Georgiou, Jeffrey Levine, Paul McCormick, Christian Peet, Sasha Watson, and others. Celebrating the release of Tarpaulin Sky Summer 2005, the publication's ninth issue, the event is free and open to the community. For more information, visit Tarpaulin Sky ( www.tarpaulinsky.com ) or email camp05@tarpaulinsky.com Featured Readers: Robyn Art's recent poems have appeared in Slope, The Hat, Conduit, Slipstream, The New Delta Review, Rhino, and canwehaveourballback.com. She's the author of the poetry manuscript, The Stunt Double In Winter, which was selected as a Finalist for the 2004 Kore Press First Book Award. Her chapbook, Degrees of Being There, was released by Boneworld Press in May 2003. A second chapbook, No Longer A Blonde, is forthcoming from Boneworld Press in 2005. Currently she lives in Brooklyn. Barbara DeCesare has a permit to carry a concealed weapon and is the Poet Laureate of 8th biggest rock n' roll radio show in the nation at WIYY 97.9, Baltimore. Her poems have found homes in Poetry, The Evansville Review, Gargoyle, River Styx, Alaska Quarterly Review, and many other journals. Her book of poems jigsaweyesore (Anti-Man Press 1999) was called "what thunder looks like in writing" by The Baltimore Sun. Please visit her website for audio samples and, if you can find the hidden link, a dirty photo. Elena Georgiou is the author of Mercy Mercy Me and co-edited, with Michael Lassell, the anthology The World in Us. She is the recipient of a New York Foundation for the Arts poetry fellowship, Astraea Emerging Writers Award, and Lambda Literary Award. Recent work appears in Bloom, The Cream City Review, Gargoyle, Lumina, Spoon River Review and elsewhere. She lives in Brooklyn and teaches poetry and creative writing at Hunter College in New York and Goddard College in Vermont. Jeffrey Levine is Editor-in-Chief of Tupelo Press and the author of Sanctuaries and Mortal, Everlasting, winner of the 2000 Transcontinental Poetry Award from Pavement Saw Press. His poems have won the Larry Levis Prize from the Missouri Review, the first annual James Hearst Award from North American Review, the 2001 Kestrel Prize and most recently, the 2001 Mississippi Review Poetry Award. His work appears in Ploughshares, Antioch Review, Poetry International, Virginia Quarterly Review, Quarterly West, Barrow Street, Yankee Magazine, and The Journal, among others. Paul McCormick's recent work appears or is forthcoming in Conjunctions, The Iowa Review, Verse, Fence, Conduit, Barrow Street, Word for/Word and DIAGRAM. Christian Peet's recent poetry and transgenre work appears or is forthcoming in Bird Dog, Drunken Boat, Fence, Parakeet, Pom2, Shampoo, SleepingFish, Word For/Word, Unpleasant Event Schedule, and elsewhere. He teaches at Brooklyn College, CUNY, and edits Tarpaulin Sky. Sasha Watson is a writer, translator, and teacher based in New York. Her poetry, translations, and reviews have appeared in Bird Dog, Common Knowledge, Triquarterly, Bookslut, Nerve, and the Poetry Project Newsletter. She is currently working on a Ph.D. in French literature at NYU. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:10:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: altered books project In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d7050713000739c3576d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fascinating project! I enjoyed all of them. -Peter Ciccariello ARTIST'S BLOG - http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ -----Original Message--On 7/12/05, Dan Waber wrote: > > The altered books project at: > http://www.logolalia.com/alteredbooks/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:23:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: poetry event (GA) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for those in Georgia and adjacent areas: Language Harm, the bi-monthly poetry event curated by the Atlanta Poets Group, will take place at 8:00 pm Wednesday July 20 at: Eyedrum 290 Martin Luther King, Jr. Drive (4 blocks west of Oakland Cemetery) Atlanta, GA poetry (mnophonic polyphonic formed formless? formal-wear'd form-fitting) will be performed for yr delectation theme: form(s) $4.00 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:27:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: please dress casualty Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 approx 1,948 deaths in iraq, coalition plus allies. on the streets of baltimore, at an undisclosed time and place, 1,948 people= from around the area will lie down and create an enormous pile of living b= odies. c.n.c. --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:30:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Kentucky 7/23 to 7/30 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Attention All: Sarah and I will be in Kentucky from the dates above, 7.23 till 7.30. If anyone would like to set up a reading or perhaps invite us to lunch or d= inner or something special we'd be happy to meet. I am hoping some folks wi= ll put something together since I'm from NYC and Kentucky is as foreign to = me as Planet X in "Duck Dodgers, in the 24 1/2 Century" Yours' tura lura lura, Christophe Casamassima --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:51:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Documentary project looking for poets]] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Betts" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 9:42 AM Subject: Fw: Documentary project looking for poets]] > > To Whom It May Concern: > > I am a Canadian based producer currently working on a documentary series on > > the history of language. As a part of the series we give samples of a vast > > amount of languages from the world over. I was thinking that it might be > > interesting to also get some poets reciting poetry in a variety of > > languages. I was wondering if your organization has poets who write and > > recite poems in languages other than English in the Toronto area. If so I > > am wondering if you could put me in touch with them. If not could you > > suggest any other place where I may be able to find such poets. Any help > > that you could provide would be very much appreciated. I have attached a > > short outline of the project for your interest. Please let me know if you > > have any questions. > > > I look forward to hearing from you. > > Best Regards, > > > Christene Browne syncopated@sympatico.ca > > (416) 531-085 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:45:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: New at e-x-c-h-a-n-g-e-v-a-l-u-e-s... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An extraordinary interview with Geof Huth by Crag Hill and Ron Silliman. Go to: http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 19:30:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Avery Burns Subject: Contact Info Debrot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Does anyone have contact info for Jacques Debrot? Please backchannel. Thanks Avery Burns __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:11:35 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Hoerman Subject: temporary chapbook / summer poetry program MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit TEMPORARY CHAPBOOK I've posted a temporary chapbook online in PDF format. The work contains 9 poems, both new and unpublished work, including "Spokane," which was recently finalist in Web Del Sol's online poetry competition, nominated by Didi Menendez, editor of the online journal MiPoesis. There is also a WMV media file of images extracted from documentary footage I shot while in Spokane. http://namingconventions.blogspot.com SUMMER POETRY PROGRAM The summer poetry program I'm leading has a number of wonderful guest poets. Tanya Larkin, Sophie Wadsworth, Maria Luisa Arroyo, winners of the Mass. Cultural Council Poetry Fellowship, and Franz Wright are each leading an afternoon session with the kids. Michael Hoerman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:52:46 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laura oliver Subject: Renga Rules? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed What are the rules for the two line parts of Renga?How many syllables? Thank you, Laura ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 11:51:47 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Jacquest Debrot In-Reply-To: <200507140001.1dSUUj30M3Nl34d0@mx-pinchot.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I'd like to get an email address for him also. Brian Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 19:30:37 -0700 From: Avery Burns Subject: Contact Info Debrot Hi, Does anyone have contact info for Jacques Debrot? Please backchannel. Thanks Avery Burns ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:02:52 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Jacquest Debrot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Me too. The last I heard from him, ages ago, was he was going offline. He sent me his snailmail address but (typically) I managed to misplace it. So any contact information would be appreciated. Robin Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Stefans" To: Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:51 PM Subject: Jacquest Debrot > Yes, I'd like to get an email address for him also. > > Brian > > > Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 19:30:37 -0700 > From: Avery Burns > Subject: Contact Info Debrot > > Hi, > Does anyone have contact info for Jacques Debrot? > > Please backchannel. Thanks > Avery Burns > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:16:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Good Subject: Your Black Eye #2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hell All, Your Black Eye #2, or, Your Second Black Eye, is now online at www.yourblackeye.org. Feat. Buck Downs Kevin Davies John Latta Amy King K. Silem Mohammed Marcus Slease Sheila Murphy Jeremy Gardner Theodore Harris Noah Eli Gordon and lots of rejected letters to the editor.... It's like a party in the mouth of cyberspace, so no one can hear you scream, but everyone's invited. Enjoy, Adam __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:56:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: PUB: black fatherhood anthology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>PUB: black fatherhood anthology =============================== Black Fatherhood Anthology ISO Submissions Kinship Press, a Philadelphia-based imprint, is soliciting personal essays of not more than 1,500 words from men or women who can tell a short, uplifting anecdote or thumbnail sketch of a loving, supportive black father who was willing to make enormous sacrifices to raise healthy, productive children. The selected essays will appear in an anthology designed to paint a well-rounded portrait of black men as loving, committed role models. A portion of the proceeds from the sale of the book will benefit The Fatherhood Initiative Program. Submissions should be e-mailed to (mailto:kinshippress@comcast.net) no later than August 15, 2005. The authors of the selected essays will receive five copies of the anthology and have an opportunity to share in a meaningful project that celebrates the black experience. Please include your name, contact info and e-mail address with your submission. Feel free to forward this request for submissions to black writers' groups, conferences, or other talented individuals who may be interested in contributing to the anthology. Info: Kinship Press 7715 Crittenden Street, Suite 308 Philadelphia, PA 19118-4421 (mailto:kinshippress@comcast.net) ############################################# this is e-drum, a listserv providing information of interests to black writers and diverse supporters worldwide. e-drum is moderated by kalamu ya salaam (kalamu@aol.com). ___ Stay Strong\ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation."\ --patrick o'neil\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/} ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:28:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Renga Rules? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit renga comes from tanka a 31 syllable poem of 5 7 5 7 7 and continues that way as a linked pome so the answer you seek is 7/7 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:11:42 -0700 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: Re: Renga Rules? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable of course, counting syllables is not prescribed anymore. you know the = rap - English "syllables" don't equate in Japanese. much has been = written and researched about this. the syllable count is only a very = rough guideline. Layne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Dalachinksy=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 1:28 PM Subject: Re: Renga Rules? renga comes from tanka a 31 syllable poem of 5 7 5 7 7 and continues that way as a linked pome so the answer you seek is = 7/7 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:16:14 -0700 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: Re: Renga Rules? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.ahapoetry.com/ahalynx/202HMPG.html Jane Reichhold's Lynx publication. There happens to be an article = regarding renga in this issue. Also see her home page ahapoetry.com. Layne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: laura oliver=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:52 AM Subject: Renga Rules? What are the rules for the two line parts of Renga?How many syllables? Thank you, Laura ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 01:20:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bircumshaw Subject: Re: D. Bircumshaw's value add idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Alex I get seriously worried when someone implies I am right about something - I am so habituated to being told I am wrong I find it difficult to deal with acceptance. I recall the first poem I ever wrote, it was at school in my 13teens. I had wrote from my year dot but it had been prose that I was interested in. Teacher told us to write a poem for homework, so I did, but school in question was a 'secondary modern' in the poorest part of town where the kids were destined to be factory fodder. The homework was handed in, we had little books upon which Teacher would put marks and comments in his red pen, the next day after the books were returned and to my puzzlement mine was unmarked. I took trhe notebook to Teacher (mine had been pointedly handed back last) at his Mighty Desk and querously queried why mine was unmarked. 'Where did you copy that from?' was his reply. That was my introduction to the world of poetry: I even complained to the headmaster who sympathised and believed the poem was my own work but said that he could not undermine the Teacher's authority. This was where I realised I do not exist: I have carried on not existing ever since. As a non-person I have noticed (SADLY) just how bourgeiose the poetic scene is. I have sometimes wished I was black because at least then I would fit in with the rhetorics of comformity, but being a white heterosexual middle-aged working class male who is nothing like Phil Collins but has a penchant for left-wing libertarian politics, eccentric religious interests, Bach, Vallejo and Celan, I should not BE. It does not matter that I have books to my name, that I am a good editor, that I am widely published, I am not supposed to exist. So I am left to hug my invisibility, volubly. Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "alexander saliby" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:38 PM Subject: D. Bircumshaw's value add idea Dave, You wrote: "...it is not so much a matter of either what you know or who you know but who you are seen to be, the agency of that seeing being as impossible to describe as which fish turns first in school or shoal. The probabilities are that if someone posted something on this or other lists that 'broke new ground' etc that it would be as likely that no-one would say anything if the presenter was not a somehow favourably viewed or well-allied individual." Ah, how right you are... Not what but who are you to dare yourself a poet here to be and now to share those thoughts with others on this list... You have few friends none in classrooms or editorial halls The Gall of it and you few others dare this blatant disobedience of random rules to share Yet rejections warm your blood And too you wrote: "My Modest Proposal is that the Poetics List unbundle itself - for example one could have a Noticeboard for all those worthy notices of events that most of the members live nowhere in the vicinity of, and for the important matter of forthcoming publications; A List Called Alan (joke) for creative outpourings; a Small Ads for those in search of a New York sub-let, and a Poetics List for the discussion of Poetics (whatever that may be)." And here the brilliance of their plans shines through they add value to the list as in all they do and too they may at least bring in some needed revenue... Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: David Bircumshaw To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 2:25 AM Subject: Re: About the Poetics List Alexander; >I suspect if one were to post on POETICS a poem that broke new ground in either presentation, or form or metrical stanzaic pattern, or if one wrote a poem that excited even the nearly dead intellects such as I by either its wit or its originality, no one of the moderators, editors, authorities on the list would dare excommunicate the creator of such works< Rather too much of literary history, and even more of observation of spiderWeb poetry lists, suggests to me that reactions to such works would be dependent on shared group perceptions of the status of their originator, the 'groups' in question being the shadowy networks of alliances, alignments, oppositions and enmity that ghost the navigation of poetry into public space. Poetry, like the other arts, and sciences, and in fact more or less all forms of human collectivity, is as status obsessed as Jane Goodall's chimps, it is not so much a matter of either what you know or who you know but who you are seen to be, the agency of that seeing being as impossible to describe as which fish turns first in school or shoal. The probabilities are that if someone posted something on this or other lists that 'broke new ground' etc that it would be as likely that no-one would say anything if the presenter was not a somehow favourably viewed or well-allied individual. >In my opinion, more often than we perhaps care to recognize, creative souls run rough-shod over rules, ignoring them right and left no matter who posted the edict. And they do that not out of disrespect for rules but rather because they find rules restrict the creative process they are driven to practice, and their drive to create is greater than their drive to conform.< Quite likely, but unfortunately the dissociated nature of cybernetic 'communities' makes it even easier for 'uncreative' souls to 'pull the plug', issue the ban, answer questions with all the force of silence. My Modest Proposal is that the Poetics List unbundle itself - for example one could have a Noticeboard for all those worthy notices of events that most of the members live nowhere in the vicinity of, and for the important matter of forthcoming publications; A List Called Alan (joke) for creative outpourings; a Small Ads for those in search of a New York sub-let, and a Poetics List for the discussion of Poetics (whatever that may be). Anyhow, I am wearying a little now and feel another etc threatening in the western skies, something of that sort. Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "alexander saliby" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:17 PM Subject: Re: About the Poetics List Tod, et alles, The rules against: "...this is the most unkindest cut of all..." came after the fact of the creative writing. Rules are made for following, unless: ignoring, destroying, abhorring them harms no one but yourself, in which case, screw the rules! In my opinion, more often than we perhaps care to recognize, creative souls run rough-shod over rules, ignoring them right and left no matter who posted the edict. And they do that not out of disrespect for rules but rather because they find rules restrict the creative process they are driven to practice, and their drive to create is greater than their drive to conform. I suspect if one were to post on POETICS a poem that broke new ground in either presentation, or form or metrical stanzaic pattern, or if one wrote a poem that excited even the nearly dead intellects such as I by either its wit or its originality, no one of the moderators, editors, authorities on the list would dare excommunicate the creator of such works. Here though is the essence of the list to date: Po'ms tomes silence brilliance xfe fex so paints the saints But, rules aside, perhaps the real problem with the list is not the edict banning poetry; rather it is the failure of the moderators/editors on the list to realize that there can be no discussion of poetics and poetry without poetry itself...how sad. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Tod Edgerton> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: Re: About the Poetics List Dan, you're making the whole issue of "published" much more complicated than it actually is. No self-published works would be an acceptable rule to me, but so would including self-published works by authors other than oneself. Leaves of Grass, obviously, has been published and republished by many other people than Walt for a long time. I don't believe that it does happen a lot that editors of highly respected presses publish their own books. There are a few exceptions, like Scalapino, who published Crowd and not evening or light through her O Books. If it's a respected press, then include it. If you think it's an amazing work that someone unfortunately had to publish themselves, include it. Rules are guidelines, not absolutes, and people always take liberties. I've definitely seen poems on this list, as it is. Quote from blogs--why not? Quote from online galleries and journals that include electronic, multimedia, and hybrid works. Now just how much is excluded? Any parameters will necessarily exclude something, but some limits are necessary. I don't think it's as complicated as you find it to be, I don't personally find the issue of what constitututes "published" all that interesting or complex, rather a bit tedious. It really is a matter of common sense. Your splitting hairs with nothing more at stake than whether you can "officially" quote a certain poem on this list that might be excluded from the rules. But I do agree with you that it seems odd (at best) for a poetics list to institute a complete moratorium on the inclusion of poems... Maybe the old 50 posts per day limit would work again, though. Does anyone know why this was abandoned originally? I suppose I can imagine that, with around 10000 participants, many people might never get to the head of the line, and that might be more of a problem. So, yes, how 'bout changing the rules a bit? Best, Tod Dan Waber >> wrote: Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > As someone relatively new to the list, I can say without reservation > that I do not want my e-mail inundated with endless streams of bad > poetry. Who does? I'm not entirely convinced that was the motivation behind going poemless, but even if it was, it seems ill-advised for the solution to be, "all right then, NO poems at all". But, this is a very American response, now that I think of it. We like the easy solution of eliminating the good with the bad in the name of saving us from the bad. The examples are legion. > Published poems can be referenced, links cut and pasted, in > the course of a discussion of specific poems. I, personally, > however, would be in favor of allowing the citation of published > poems in whole or part, but not unpublished. I'm curious, how would you define "published"? Does self-publishing count (Leaves of Grass)? What if you're a highly respected press and you publish a manuscript of your own through your own press (this happens a lot)? How about if it's on a blog (the choices are too many to pick this early)? How about in the comments of a blog? What about posted to a series of listservs reaching a total number of people greater than the circulation of Poetry (Alan Sondheim, August Highland, Lanny Quarles, mez, etc)? What constitutes the publishing of a piece of hypermedia (Jim Andrews)? Do we only talk about things published by Seagate? What about a poet who declaims all publication entirely (Jesse Taylor for the 20 years up until this week)? The welcome message for the Poetics list says that posting to this list is itself considered by the Editorial Board as a form of publication. I can't imagine a criteria for what would legitimately constitute "published" that wouldn't also exclude at least as much vital work as it includes. Particularly now, in this very exciting time of the digital dancing with literature, on a digitally facilitated list, the kind of work this list's welcome message says its open to is often (but certainly not exclusively) precisely the kind of work that is non-publishable, or apublished, or is in the act of birthing a whole new definition of what published means. Even if a workable definition could be found, I think a list that claims to be open to the impossible in theory, but in practice only allows the citation of the published is untenable. I also think the notion of what constitutes "published" today is one of the most exciting questions in all of literature. I am the type of person who doesn't really do very well at talking about that question. I am pretty good, however, at thinking of different ways to say "well, how about this!?" And I think it's essential to the dialog to include people of both kinds. Without the former, the discussion will probably never really happen in any kind of structured way, and without the latter, the discussion would never have come up in the first place because there would have been no deviation from the norm anyway. Lively discussion requires both sides. > I'm fairly sure most of the people who're here to discuss > experimental poetry and poetics do not want this list to become a > forum for "open mic" publication. Once word got out, the list would > really be ruined. Not really. The list was an open mic for a decade and the simple measures of limiting individuals to 2 posts per day and the entire list to 50 posts per day was effective at stopping the "if no one minds, I'll just go ahead and read a dozen more" syndrome. And I think there is no better way to say you're NOT interested in the new and emerging, the experimental and the impossible, than to say you've given up on open readings. Yeah, they can be painfully bad sometimes. But they are also sometimes brilliant, engaging, and instructive in the art of being human. > Discussing "received forms" does not refer to workshopping or > otherwise discussing poems received from listserv participants, but > to interrogating the uses and relevance of traditional, "closed" > forms like the sestina or pantoum in the contemporary > cultural/political context. So, yes, "recieved" does mean something > completely different than what you read it to mean. Cool, I was unfamiliar with that usage, thank you. > It would be nice to have more engaged, rigorous discussions and > debates than I've seen so far, but wouldn't it be a better strategy > to start one than to try to critique the editorial statement/welcome > message Absolutely this would be better. And this is precisely why I suggested that the Editorial Board do some of that discussion starting. Because in an environment where there is this much control coming from the top, you don't find a lot of people stepping up to test out whether any given topic is going to end up causing a rule change on them. It may be of interest to note here that I've had far more back channel responses of support than total responses on the list. Why would that be? Because people are more comfortable with it. And if the goal here is to encourage discussion, that's a failure. And, actually, I believe have started a more engaged, rigorous discussion and debate. I've even mentioned published poems in it. > (I suppose this applies to me, here, now, equally...maybe > I'll give that a try in the morning...)? I'm sure the exchange of > original work among a small group of highly talented and intelligent > participants must have been exciting and invigorating in its time, > and I'm pissed I missed out. However, this list is not that one; > this list is far too big to manage that, I think, so I understand > the need for setting parameters. But perhaps they could be revised > to allow the inclusion of already published works in support of > arguments made in expository prose; I see no harm in that. I see no harm either. If that's the direction they want to go, great. That's why I offered as suggestion #1 that the welcome message be reworded to more accurately reflect the reality of the situation. If the list is too big (though I don't think it is), and the Editorial Board wants to limit discussion to works that are only as impossible as can be managed within the confines of a print publication produced by a known and reputable press, they should say so. Because wearing the cape of Defender of the Impossible when you don't have the rest of the suit on, makes you look a little underdressed when you fly over the local neighborhoods. I'm not saying this goal/approach has no or even less value than any other approach. I'm saying that organizational groupings of all kinds have a tendency to attract the kind of people they say they want. I think what is wanted here has necessarily evolved over the years, and the welcome message has not evolved gracefully along with it. I'm a poet, so I want the words to be right. Dan There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding. - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 01:46:44 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: D. Bircumshaw's value add idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dave: > The homework was handed > in, we had little books upon which Teacher would put marks and comments in > his red pen, the next day after the books were returned and to my puzzlement > mine was unmarked. I took the notebook to Teacher (mine had been pointedly > handed back last) at his Mighty Desk and querously queried why mine was > unmarked. 'Where did you copy that from?' was his reply. > > That was my introduction to the world of poetry: I'm entirely with your teacher on this -- how come a Brummie illiterate like you could possibly write anything worth reading? Did he happen to say who you'd copied it off? R the Phantom Rooster {proud publisher of Bircumstruffles's +Painting Without Numbers+} ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 02:22:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bircumshaw Subject: Re: D. Bircumshaw's value add idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, Robin, he didn't say who he thought I'd copied it off, which wasn't suprising as he was semi-literate, I think his problem was that poem contained references to figures like Orpheus which in his view of the world no kid from a council flat in the heart of Brum could possibly know about. I haven't preserved the poem - i doubt it was that good btw - i was just told to write a poem so i did. But that was the true induction to the joys of non-existence. It isn't only I who am not supposed to be, but all my confreres, poor little Vicky, Colin, Marco, Dick Ball, Eugene, Lydia etc, none of us should be. Memorably, on a certain other list, a middle class poet-editor described the road on which we live as a place where 'no-one could be said to live'. Meantime, although living in social housing and on income support, I do not read the Sun nor dream of winning the lottery but instead listen to radio 3, love the singing in cathedrals and monasteries, talk with Eugene about Russian poetry, Marco about Dante, Lydia about Vaughan Wiliams etc etc. While not existing. Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hamilton" To: Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 5:46 PM Subject: Re: D. Bircumshaw's value add idea > dave: > > > The homework was handed > > in, we had little books upon which Teacher would put marks and comments in > > his red pen, the next day after the books were returned and to my > puzzlement > > mine was unmarked. I took the notebook to Teacher (mine had been pointedly > > handed back last) at his Mighty Desk and querously queried why mine was > > unmarked. 'Where did you copy that from?' was his reply. > > > > That was my introduction to the world of poetry: > > I'm entirely with your teacher on this -- how come a Brummie illiterate like > you could possibly write anything worth reading? > > Did he happen to say who you'd copied it off? > > R the Phantom Rooster > > {proud publisher of Bircumstruffles's +Painting Without Numbers+} ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 20:31:25 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Olson film in Gloucester Saturday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Olson's work presented in film screening By Gail McCarthy Staff writer The public will have a chance to view a rough cut of a film about a renowned Gloucester poet Charles Olson at a special event at the Cape Ann Historical Museum on Saturday. The film screening is sponsored by The Charles Olson Society, which will take place at 3 p.m. at the museum located downtown on Pleasant Street. The free program includes readings from the works of Charles Olson by members of the society in addition to the screening by local filmmaker Henry Ferrini. "Charles Olson was known mainly to other poets, but he had a lot to say not just to poets but to everyone, especially today," said Ferrini. "There's a certain relevance to his work today because he talks about the community and the importance of people living in this small polis. He spoke to this place through his poetry." A major figure in American poetry, Olson lived from 1910 to 1970. Ferrini, 52, wants to share the talents of Olson with others, and to that end he began this film 10 years ago. At the screening, the audience will see the first 30 minutes of what will be a 56-minute, 40-second movie. "That is essentially a PBS hour," said Ferrini. This film, when finished, will be aired on public television. Ferrini interested Hollywood actor John Malkovich in donating his services as narrator. "He's very scholarly and has an interest in literature and poetry," said Ferrini. "We were able to get word to him to see if he'd be interested. He appears in part of the rough cut. He reads Charles Olson as good as Charles Olson." Born in Worcester, Olson was a summer resident here as a child. Later, his mother moved here. Olson moved to an apartment at 28 Fort Square with his wife and son. Before moving to Cape Ann, Olson began teaching in 1948 at Black Mountain College in North Carolina, which was an experimental educational project. He became a visiting lecturer. From 1951 until its closing in 1956, Olson served as rector of the college. "Because he experienced the magic quality of being a child who comes here in the summer time, this place became paradisiacal for him," said Ferrini. Gloucester would later become the subject of a major epic poem by Olson titled "The Maximum Poems." The epic began as letters Olson wrote to Gloucester's Vincent Ferrini, a contemporary of the local poet and Gloucester's poet laureate. "He is important, in part, because he wrote a lot of material about this place," said Henry Ferrini. "But so few people read poetry anymore. One reason to do my film is to give a window into this man. It's a showcase for some of his poetry." When asked to comment on Olson's work, Ferrini quoted from the U.S. poet laureate from 2001 to 2003, Billy Collins: "You don't read poetry to find out about another person, you read poetry to find about yourself." Ferrini, an award-winning filmmaker, still needs to raise about $75,000 to finish the film. His last film, "Lowell Blues," about poet Jack Kerouac, king of the Beats, aired on PBS and in 12 European countries. It will be shown at an international film festival in London next March. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 02:10:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Renga Rules? Comments: To: layne@whiteowlweb.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey she asked the rules and in this case unless yer well let's not go into these syllables despite the anglo thing still apply in renga and tanka it's let's drop it ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 07:55:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: from The Golden Path:::wanting to fill you with lillies::: Comments: To: wryting , webartery , rhizome , mary kay , netbehaviour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Storms bruise flowers for seconds. No-one forgets the colors now *** Baby, you're asleep. Waiting for me to leave you because I'm afraid you'll leave. Draining now. I'll sit here and watch over you, wait for you to wake up *** These green hills gross me out with pearly tonnage--wide electro ic fetish woods, babysleep *** I walk beneath sea level between selves on C street The one still in a yellow room touching your soft belly to the ends of stars *** watched an orange moon fur drown moaning in velvet pollution and paint myself against the pavement *** I'd walk the white or the whole of your belly and drown moaning in it, velvet and black with a fullness and wanting to fill you with lillies *** Maybe instead of hearing about, laying down in your garden, darker and streaked with intoxication *************************************************************************** No More Movements... Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/||| __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 08:41:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Rove /Juan Cole Comments: cc: UK POETRY In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If you have not seen this, I believe it sums up the Rove Biz. From Juan Cole's blog. Tuesday, July 12, 2005 Rove Unfit for Public Office Whether the courts can and will punish Karl Rove for telling Time Magazine's Matthew Cooper that Joe Wilson's wife was a CIA operative should be beside the point. That's for the courts to decide. The real question is whether we want a person to occupy a high office in the White House when that person has cynically endangered US national security to take a petty sort of revenge on a whistleblower. Ambassador Joe Wilson, who once dared Saddam to hang him while wearing a rope around his neck while acting ambassador in Baghdad in fall of 1990, was the first to let the American people know that the Bush administration lied about Iraq's alleged attempt to purchase uranium yellowcake from Niger. Wilson went to that country, investigated the structure of the uranium industry (which is mainly in French hands anyway), and concluded it was impossible. Bush and Cheney had believed a set of forged documents manufactured by a former employee of Italian military intelligence. (In the US, the only major public intellectual with close ties to Italian military intelligence is pro-war gadfly Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute). In revenge, Rove tried to discredit Wilson and perhaps also punish him and his family. The purpose of such punishment is always to bully and terrorize other employees, as well as to shut up the whistleblower. Since the Bush administration has done so many illegal things, if Washington insiders started blowing the whistle, there could be a hundred Watergates. Rove let everyone in Washington know that he would destroy anyone who dared step forward. The White House also dealt with former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neil when he blew the whistle on the Bush planning for and Iraq War in January of 2001 (look at the date). They threatened O'Neill with jail time for revealing classified information, even though O'Neill had never been given any. He subsequently fell quiet. It is also said that the Bushies tried to prevent Anthony Zinni, a retired Marine Corps general, from getting any consulting gigs in Washington because he opposed the Iraq war. But Rove's revenge on Wilson was the ultimate. Plame was undercover as an employee of a phony energy company. She was actually investigating illegal proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. When Rove blew her cover to the US press, everyone who had ever been seen with her in Africa or Asia was put in extreme danger. It is said that some of her contacts may have been killed. Imagine the setback to the US struggle against weapons of mass destruction proliferation that this represents. Rove marched us off to Iraq, where there weren't any. But he disrupted a major effort by the CIA to fight WMD that really did exist. Moreover, the whole thing only makes sense if Rove is a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist to begin with. Why would it matter that Valerie Plame suggested to the CIA that they send her husband Joe Wilson to Niger? Wilson had excellent credentials for the mission, which the CIA immediately recognized. Rove can only have thought it would discredit Wilson to associate his mission with the CIA if he viewed the CIA as the enemy. This is the Richard Perle line. If Wilson was sent to Niger on the recommendation of a CIA operative, then he was not an objective ex-ambassador but a CIA plant of some sort, attempting to undermine the Bush administration and the military occupation of Iraq. This theory is that of a crackpot. The actions are those of a traitor. What is the difference between Robert Hanssen revealing key secret information for money to the Soviets and Karl Rove revealing it to the proliferators for political gain for the Republican Party and the Bush White House? Both are traitors who traded secrets for gain. A man who would do what Rove did should not be in the White House in any capacity. And no person who tolerates a man like Rove in the White House should be commander in chief of American security. Douglas Barbour 11655 - 72 Avenue NW Edmonton Ab T6G 0B9 (780) 436 3320 NOT MUCH Not much you ever said you were thinking of, not much to say in answer. Robert Creeley ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:11:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Nomadics blog posts Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Recent posts on Pierre Joris' NOMADICS blog: Homage to Gustaf Sobin Bastille Day, B-Day 3 poems by Mohammed Bennis Rove by Maas A culture of Mass Graves Srebrenica: Ten Years After Claude Simon (1913-2005) The ICJ & the Wall of Shame Gustaf Sobin (1935-2005) ================================================= "Play what you don't know" -- Sun Ra ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202-1310 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ blog:http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:00:02 -0400 Reply-To: jUStin!katKO Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jUStin!katKO Subject: VEIL correction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Poetics, Last week, Xexoxial Editions released Charles Bernstein's VEIL as a handmade edition and downloadable pdf. However, due to an editorial blunder in the placement of VEIL's endpapers (designed by Liz Was), this is a kind request directed at those who have downloaded the pdf from the original post. Please kindly discard the old version and download the corrected version from the link below: http://www.xexoxial.org/pdf/veil.pdf (3.2 MB) Corrected handmade editions are available for mailorder. Outstanding orders will be shipped with the corrected edition. Many thanks, & apologies for the confusion, jUStin katKO=20 Xexoxial Editions 10375 Cty Hway A La Farge, WI 54639 USA http://www.xexoxial.org/books/veil.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:17:08 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Boston Globe on Olson film (Gloucester, Saturday, 3 PM) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bringing a poet back to the people Gloucester filmmaker documents work of Charles Olson By James Sullivan, Globe Correspondent | July 14, 2005 Herman Melville was out of fashion when a young Massachusetts scholar named Charles Olson began studying the author in the 1930s. Olson's first book, ''Call Me Ishmael," completed in 1945, was a critical reassessment that would help establish a new era of Melville appreciation. Sixty years later, it is Olson's reputation that could use a boost. In his lifetime, he had plenty of admirers. His theory of spoken poetry cleared the path for the Beats and performance poetry, and Olson's was the leading voice in the groundbreaking 1960 anthology ''The New American Poetry." In academic circles, he is often counted as one of the most influential poets of the 20th century. Yet Olson, who died in 1970, is largely forgotten by the reading public. Even in his adopted hometown of Gloucester -- the subject of his greatest work, the epic series of laments known as the ''Maximus" poems -- he is scarcely remembered by the ordinary citizens for whom he felt he was writing. Gloucester filmmaker Henry Ferrini wants to usher in a new era of appreciation for the writer. Ten years in the making, Ferrini is in the final phases of ''Poet & the City," a documentary on Olson and his beloved seaport. This Saturday, the filmmaker will host an event at the Cape Ann Historical Association including a screening of his work-in-progress and readings by Olson scholars. Ferrini hopes to complete his film by April 2006, which is National Poetry Month. But he has labored to convince potential investors that Olson's vision of Gloucester's modernization is not just a local story. ''It's difficult to get people to understand that this man spoke for everyone," says Ferrini. A past finalist for a major grant from the Independent Television Service, which connects producers with public television stations, the filmmaker hopes to land the prize this year. In the meantime, he continues to raise money as he has for a decade -- by soliciting donations, however modest, from Olson enthusiasts, Cape Ann preservationists, and other friends of the arts. From the ground-floor workspace of his old hillside home in Gloucester, Ferrini points toward the waterfront along Rocky Neck. ''There's usually a $14 million yacht parked out there," he says. Laughing, he recalls the time he tried to enlist the owner as an investor. For Ferrini, the presence of that yacht is a constant reminder that Olson's work was about the changing face of Gloucester and, by extension, the country -- the problems of urban renewal, absentee ownership, and the growing disparity between the haves and the have-nots. Olson himself, says the filmmaker, sometimes lived in ''abject poverty." The poet Diane DiPrima told Ferrini about hosting a rent party in New York for Olson in the late 1950s, when he needed $29 for the landlord. DiPrima is one of countless poets for whom Olson's writing was a revelation, a crucial link between T.S. Eliot and Ezra Pound and the colloquialism of the Beat generation and other postwar iconoclasts. ''Olson found a way to write poetry that combined an interaction with the subject with what was going on in his mind," says Peter Anastas, a Gloucester native who edited Olson's ''Maximus to Gloucester" letters to the Gloucester Daily Times, in which the poet argued for the preservation of the city's heritage in verse. ''It was a mind in action with the world. It was a tremendous breakthrough in poetry." After studying at Wesleyan, Yale, and Harvard, Olson embarked on a promising career in politics, serving in Franklin Roosevelt's administration and for the Democratic National Committee. In 1944, however, he resigned from his post at the Office of War Information in favor of the literary life. During his tenure in the 1950s at Black Mountain, the experimental North Carolina college, Olson influenced many future writers and artists with his impassioned, marathon classes. Jack Kerouac once made a pilgrimage to Olson's kitchen in Gloucester, where the poet settled for good in the 1950s, and Allen Ginsberg read at Olson's funeral. But despite such widespread influence, Olson is not nearly as familiar to the reading public as many of his followers. ''His work is being concreted over in this media age," says Ferrini, who has secured a narrating commitment from the actor John Malkovich to help get his film noticed. A onetime music teacher who has found a niche in film by setting writers' words to images, Ferrini is perhaps best known for ''Lowell Blues," his lyrical ode to Kerouac's hometown. Another Ferrini production, ''Poem in Action," is a profile of Vincent Ferrini -- Gloucester's irrepressible poet laureate and Henry's uncle. The life of the elder Ferrini, now a hearty 92, is forever entwined with Olson's. Olson, born in Worcester, vacationed as a child in Gloucester, establishing his lifelong attachment to the place. As a young man he summered in Gloucester, working as a substitute letter carrier. On a return visit in 1949, Olson sought out Vincent Ferrini. Olson began his ''Maximus" poems -- named in part for his own mountainous body -- as letters to Ferrini. Though their relationship had its troubles, the two men remained friends. The problem, Vincent Ferrini says today, was that he had already settled in Gloucester. When Olson arrived to stay, he wanted the city all to himself. For the elder Ferrini, the perception that Olson is a poet of the elite -- revered in the ivory tower, but irrelevant to the working class he defended -- is accurate. ''I reached people he could never reach," he says. But for Anastas, who knew Olson during his later years, the poet's writing could be powerfully direct. As an example he suggests an infamous line -- ''Oh city of mediocrity and cheap ambition" -- from one of Olson's angry letters to the local paper, after the demolition of a historic home. ''I mean, that's pretty straightforward," he says. ''And people paid attention. People knew that something important was happening when Olson was speaking to them." For the past two years, Gloucester High School English teacher James Cook has been using Olson's writing as part of a program designed to teach students new ways of looking at their surroundings. ''A lot of the kids have a sense that there's something limited about living in a mass-mediated world," he says. ''They know more about TV characters than they do about their neighbors or the local government. Olson proposes a method of living in a place and responding to it." Cook says his students have discovered that Olson's poetry can be as practical as it is heady. ''The fact that he is sometimes credited with popularizing the word 'postmodernism' -- they don't care." The students are much more interested, he says, in the idea that Olson thought Gloucester's iconic ''The Man at the Wheel" statue was bad art. Like that statue, Olson himself could become an attraction for the city if all goes well with Ferrini's film. With seldom-seen archival footage of the poet and moving images of Gloucester set to his words, the filmmaker hopes his documentary might do for the city what the Kerouac legacy has done for Lowell. ''Gloucester," as the poet Ed Sanders told Ferrini, ''doesn't know what a tremendous tourist attraction Olson could be." Henry Ferrini will present a rough cut of ''Poet & the City" at 3 p.m. Saturday at the Cape Ann Historical Association, 27 Pleasant St., Gloucester. Readings will be given by Olson scholars, including Gerrit Lansing, Schuyler Hoffman, Charles Stein, and James Cook. The program is free. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 19:47:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: British Too Stupid And Ignorant To Appreciate The Consequences Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Apparently British Too Stupid And Ignorant To Appreciate The Consequences Of Their Imperial Past And Corporate Colonial Present: 'Not Afraid' Website Suggests British Like Americans Think Its About Them: "Get Your Fuckin' Kleptocracy Out Of My Country And See How Insignificant You Become.": As Bored, Middle Class Tools Of Empire, Londoners Relish Their Proximity To Disaster.: Bombing Titillates British Public. "What We Ever Done To Them Blokes?" JEFFEY LUBE U.S. Military Uses Cynical Ploy Yet Again To Lure Suicide Bomber Killing 18 Iraqi Kids For 'Hearts And Minds' Enlistment PR: U.S. Psy Ops Exploits Predictability Of Islamic Underground: Brass Sends Troops In To Distribute Candy Hoping To Provoke Insurgency: "Media Falls For Ploy," Says Ed Lansdale: "U.S. Must Abandon This Bleeding 'Hearts And Mind' Horseshit And Focus On Killing Iraqis And Stealing Iraqi Oil," Demands Head Of Exxon/Mobil On Behalf Of Gas Price Beleaguered Americans. U.S. Corporations With Help Of Retired U.S. Military, Iraqi Officials Continue Looting/Pillaging Iraq. JEFFEY LUBE They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:29:14 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Fw Power... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit all the way.. $$$ effort talent rain brawn .com pub po log on ex say hey $$$ a..t..w..drn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:34:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Fw Power... Comments: To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit so how much bread ya'll make out the on the hot 5-5000 buck street? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 14:18:36 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ralph Wessman Subject: Re: British Too Stupid And Ignorant To Appreciate The Consequences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Yeah, I saw that too Joe. Crap isn't it. Cheers, Ralph http://walleahpress.com.au ----------------------------------------------------- This transmission is intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you have received this transmission in error,you may not use, copy or distribute it. Please advise us by return e-mail or by phoning 61 3 62338203 and immediately delete the transmission in its entirety. We will meet your reasonable expenses of notifying us. Despite our use of anti-virus software, Forestry Tasmania cannot guarantee that this transmission is virus-free. ----------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 01:18:44 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anselm Hollo Subject: Re: UKPOETRY Digest - 14 Jul 2005 to 15 Jul 2005 (#2005-159) Comments: To: UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, MBaude@aol.com, lusa@stanford.edu, mileschampion@earthlink.net, mcsmith@boisestate.edu, PenHC@aol.com, nate@ndorward.com, reality.street@virgin.net, chris@saltpublishing.com, fourways.ear@virgin.net, editor@SHEARSMAN.COM, poetry@wildhoneypress.com, mh7@nyu.edu, lhjelmgaard@hotmail.com, k.hollo@sheffield.ac.uk, gate@beltrametti.com, kinsellaj@kenyon.edu, rika.lesser.mc.74@aya.yale.edu, jlind@glocalnet.net, monk@THEMONK.DEMON.CO.UK, annemettewn@get2net.dk, Notleya@aol.com, normanohler@sayheykey.de, tmraworth@ntlworld.com, priley@dircon.co.uk, rodefer@FREE.FR, m.shayer@ukonline.co.uk, ntarn@cybermesa.net, vladkahanzlovska@hotmail.com, Laura.Wright@colorado.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear UUK and US Poetry Collegues, May i, most modestly proposing this mild self-advertisemen, suggest that you check out Salt Publishing's web site regarding my brief reappearances in the UK in the wake of my first book in 35 years published in those islands , to wit BRAIDED RIVER: Selected Poems 1965-2005, Salt Publishing, Cambridge UK, 2005 -- see SALT Web Site for dates in October, 2005. Hope to see you there, Anselm Hollo jdhollo@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 11:49:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Experimental Irish poets? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi everyone, Could you all send me names of Irish experimental/innovative poets? I'm looking specifically for people currently living in Ireland, or people born in Ireland but who have since moved elsewhere. Thanks, Gary ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:25:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Susan Wheeler reviewed in NYTimes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congratulations, Susan, for the appreciative review of your new book in this weekend's NYTimes Book Review! And for its wonderful poem "Debtor in the Convex Mirror" which won the Boston Review contest judged by Richard Howard. Brava! Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:06:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Dorward Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary--a few names-- Maurice Scully Randolph Healy Trevor Joyce Geoff Squires Catherine Walsh Billy Mills ...but I'm sure that any listmembers who were at this year's Cork Poetry = Festival (a.k.a. SoundEye) can chip in with more names & details. all best --N Nate Dorward 109 Hounslow Ave, Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ndorward@ndorward.com // web: www.ndorward.com For info on recent publications: www.ndorward.com/poetry/ For the vast archive (updated monthly!) of music reviews: = www.ndorward.com/music/ & yes, there's a blog: www.ndorward.com/blog/ JUST OUT: The Gig 18: Kelvin Corcoran, Jean Day, Andrew Levy, = a.rawlings, Scott Thurston, Ralph Hawkins, Michael Boughn, David Ball, = Douglas Manson, Peter Larkin, Joan Retallack; Peter Middleton on Robert = Creeley; the usual pile of reviews.... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:42:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit go to deaddrunkdublin.com. you might find some sources, MR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Sullivan" To: Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 11:49 AM Subject: Experimental Irish poets? > Hi everyone, > > Could you all send me names of Irish experimental/innovative poets? I'm > looking specifically for people currently living in Ireland, or people > born > in Ireland but who have since moved elsewhere. > > Thanks, > > Gary > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 19:02:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bircumshaw Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like the unintentional grammatical ambiguity of the thread title. I have experience of some of those names, as an editor, and I must note there is a slight problem that their verses are flat their egos are inflated and what they write is BORING. I felt sorry for them so I published a bit of their stuff with the result that I got back-stabbed and abused from them beyond compare. I like the careless use of words like innovative, if this lot come anywhere near it is being tedious at something approaching the speed of light. Trying to stop snoring. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nate Dorward" To: Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:06 AM Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? Gary--a few names-- Maurice Scully Randolph Healy Trevor Joyce Geoff Squires Catherine Walsh Billy Mills ...but I'm sure that any listmembers who were at this year's Cork Poetry Festival (a.k.a. SoundEye) can chip in with more names & details. all best --N Nate Dorward 109 Hounslow Ave, Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ndorward@ndorward.com // web: www.ndorward.com For info on recent publications: www.ndorward.com/poetry/ For the vast archive (updated monthly!) of music reviews: www.ndorward.com/music/ & yes, there's a blog: www.ndorward.com/blog/ JUST OUT: The Gig 18: Kelvin Corcoran, Jean Day, Andrew Levy, a.rawlings, Scott Thurston, Ralph Hawkins, Michael Boughn, David Ball, Douglas Manson, Peter Larkin, Joan Retallack; Peter Middleton on Robert Creeley; the usual pile of reviews.... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 14:16:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Dorward Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cue sound of axe-grinding..... --N ---- > I like the unintentional grammatical ambiguity of the thread title. I = have > experience of some of those names, as an editor, and I must note there = is a > slight problem that their verses are flat their egos are inflated and = what > they write is BORING. I felt sorry for them so I published a bit of = their > stuff with the result that I got back-stabbed and abused from them = beyond > compare. I like the careless use of words like innovative, if this lot = come > anywhere near it is being tedious at something approaching the speed = of > light. > > Trying to stop snoring. > > Dave ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 14:46:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Third Thursday Open Mic, Albany, NY Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed the Poetry Motel Foundation presents Third Thursday Open Mic for Poets at the Lark Street Bookshop 215 Lark Street, Albany, NY (near State St.) Thursday, July 21 7:00 sign up; 7:30 start Featured Poet:=A0The Poet Essence $3.00 donation.=A0Bring a poem to read, bring a friend, browse the = books,=20 buy her CD, "Persuasively Seduced".=A0 Your host:=A0Dan Wilcox, every Third Thursday. =A0 =A0 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:10:31 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quoth the Birk: > I felt sorry for them so I published a bit of their > stuff with the result that I got back-stabbed and abused from them beyond > compare. So *that's* why I got published in your Chide's Alphabet! I've always wondered, since I'm neither Irish nor innovative. The Phantom Rooster ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:17:12 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Nate: > Gary--a few names-- Add Mairead Byrne. Born there but living in America. There are pics of the Cork Fiesta (and the earlier Cambridge Fiasco) on Peter Mason's website. http://www.manson88.freeserve.co.uk/ Click http://www.manson88.freeserve.co.uk/Photos.htm for the pics. R. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:30:27 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? Comments: To: Gary Sullivan In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi gary, there is a good essay in here that will be helpful. of couse the author, trevor joyce, is on this list. Assembling alternatives : reading postmodern poetries transnationally / edited by Romana Huk. Publication info Middletown, Conn. : Wesleyan University Press, 2003. Title:Irish Terrain: Alternate Planes of Cleavage_Author:Trevor Joyce_Page:156 cheers, kevin -- --------------------------------------------------- http://nedaftersnowslides.com/ Hypertext fiction by Don Austin ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 23:39:52 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Hoerman Subject: Charles Olson Film/Upcoming NYC event MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Attended the preview today in Gloucester of Henry Ferrini's new film, still in process, on Charles Olson. Event took place at the Cape Ann Historical Society, 27 Pleasant St, in downtown Gloucester. There were 144 chairs set up in a basement room, with total attendance approaching 200. Readings of Olson's works preceeded the film. Reading were filmmaker Henry Ferrini; Ellen Soloman, Skylar Hoffman, Amanda Cook, Chuck Stein, and Ken Irby, all members of the Charles Olson Society (Hoffman is president); Shelby, Stephanie, Chris, and Laura, four current and recent Gloucester High students, introduced by James Cook. The preponderance of works read were from The Maximus Poems, with their Gloucester connection. The film, a 30 minute rough cut, was quite good. The good news is that it will be shown again at St. Mark's on 12/3 in association with a program to take place throughout that day called "OLSON NOW." Ammiel Alcalay announced the event, calling it an open forum. Alcalay said a blog would be forthcoming within a few weeks at factoryschool.org. Henry Ferrini is actively raising funds for the completion of the film, which he projects to be completed in April 2006. Tax deductible donations can be made payable to The Center for Independent Documentary and sent to Henry Ferrini, 5 Wall St, Gloucester, MA 01930. I was really quite amazed by the rought cut, which affirms Olson's place for what poets already know it to be. Olson's story as told by the film seems fresh and unscripted, testament to a vast and far-reaching intellect. With the exception of a glassy eyed John Malkovich reading, but not seeming to be very excited by--at least not in the way poets seem to be--selections from Projective Verse, this thing kicks ass. See you 12/3. --Michael Hoerman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:16:54 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Cudmore Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But they have to be experimental, right? P > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Gary Sullivan > Sent: 16 July 2005 16:50 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Experimental Irish poets? > > Hi everyone, > > Could you all send me names of Irish experimental/innovative > poets? I'm looking specifically for people currently living > in Ireland, or people born in Ireland but who have since > moved elsewhere. > > Thanks, > > Gary > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 02:27:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bircumshaw Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Naow, Rob, your stuff got through my gaze because it was quite good, espesh the JB poems. I think that technically yours and Emma Lew's are the best in CA 1. Opinions? Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hamilton" To: Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 12:10 PM Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? > Quoth the Birk: > > > I felt sorry for them so I published a bit of their > > stuff with the result that I got back-stabbed and abused from them beyond > > compare. > > So *that's* why I got published in your Chide's Alphabet! > > I've always wondered, since I'm neither Irish nor innovative. > > > > The Phantom Rooster ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 23:09:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: don summerhayes Subject: Re: British Too Stupid And Ignorant To Appreciate The Consequences In-Reply-To: <9a.29cae0e7.3009a506@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let me get this straight --- who is too stupid and ignorant? Joe Brennan wrote: > Click here: The Assassinated Press >http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ > >Apparently British Too Stupid And Ignorant To Appreciate The Consequences Of >Their Imperial Past And Corporate Colonial Present: >'Not Afraid' Website Suggests British Like Americans Think Its About Them: >"Get Your Fuckin' Kleptocracy Out Of My Country And See How Insignificant You >Become.": >As Bored, Middle Class Tools Of Empire, Londoners Relish Their Proximity To >Disaster.: >Bombing Titillates British Public. "What We Ever Done To Them Blokes?" >JEFFEY LUBE > >U.S. Military Uses Cynical Ploy Yet Again To Lure Suicide Bomber Killing 18 >Iraqi Kids For 'Hearts And Minds' Enlistment PR: >U.S. Psy Ops Exploits Predictability Of Islamic Underground: >Brass Sends Troops In To Distribute Candy Hoping To Provoke Insurgency: >"Media Falls For Ploy," Says Ed Lansdale: >"U.S. Must Abandon This Bleeding 'Hearts And Mind' Horseshit And Focus On >Killing Iraqis And Stealing Iraqi Oil," Demands Head Of Exxon/Mobil On Behalf Of >Gas Price Beleaguered Americans. U.S. Corporations With Help Of Retired U.S. >Military, Iraqi Officials Continue Looting/Pillaging Iraq. >JEFFEY LUBE > > > >They hang the man and flog the woman >That steal the goose from off the common, >But let the greater villain loose >That steals the common from the goose. > >".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in >the >sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful >language >of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or >hypocritical, >whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating >impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed >good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured > >forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter >house. >One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first >giving >free reign to this hubbub of voices...." > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:34:05 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: [job] Advanced Assistant/Associate Professor - Creative Writing: Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Location: Washington, DC George Mason University seeks a Tenure-Track Advanced Assistant or Associate Professor of Creative Writing: Poetry to begin Fall 2006. Candidates should have: - substantial publications (2 books or equivalent) - proven teaching record. The successful candidate will teach graduate and undergraduate courses/workshops as well as advise and direct theses of students in the MFA program. Review of applications begins Oct. 1, 2005. Apply online and send cover letter, c.v., writing sample, plus three letters of recommendation to: William Miller, Search Committee Dept. of English, MS 3E4 George Mason University Fairfax, VA 22030 Apply online @ http://jobs.gmu.edu/applicants/Central?quickFind=68549 George Mason University is an innovative, entrepreneurial institution with national distinction in a range of academic fields. Enrollment now tops 28,000, with students studying in 144 degree programs at campuses in Arlington, Fairfax, and Prince William. EOE/AA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:56:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: British Too Stupid And Ignorant To Appreciate The Consequences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit everyone is retiring the world - for m.s. outside this place surely another skin lush carpet luxurious blottos bizarre beauty invisible bodies of piss shit & blood & oh the clowns & seraphim incanting charms & hexes within the imaginations of the hopeless this is a no-frills evening where nothing is for everything & everything comes from nothing this is an sailors should watch their backs. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 06:10:58 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Too Stupid & Ignorant... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit to appreciate Joe Brennan... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 08:10:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Francis Raven Subject: Participation Request: Water Modeling In-Reply-To: <15645025.1121595059426.JavaMail.root@wamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear list, You guys are hot so I thought you'd like to be water models. If you want to be part of my water poems here's a fun activity you could complete: please: (1) fill a cup with water (2) pour that glass of water over a part of your body(your choice which body part) YOU ARE NOW A WATER MODEL (3) write down: (a) your location in the the world (b) what part of the body you poured the water over (c) how you looked as a water model (d) how you felt as a water model. (4) send me your responses (backchannel or to the list) thanks for all your help, Francis Raven ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 16:53:37 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Naow, Rob, your stuff got through my gaze because it was quite good, espesh > the JB poems. Oh, it finally clicked -- the Berryman homage, nah? In case anyone cares, here's the URL: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ChideOne/Fourth%20Chiding.htm > I think that technically yours and Emma Lew's are the best in > CA 1. Opinions? I'm touched but slightly baffled -- to be honest, however good or bad my poetry might be, technically innovative it aint. The consensus would be that linguistically you're a damn site more innovative than me. Possibly it helps to be a Brummie illiterate. Back to the Situananist teapot, me. The Ghost of Guy Debord > Subject: Re: Experimental Irish po > > > Quoth the Birk: > > > > > I felt sorry for them so I published a bit of their > > > stuff with the result that I got back-stabbed and abused from them > beyond > > > compare. > > > > So *that's* why I got published in your Chide's Alphabet! > > > > I've always wondered, since I'm neither Irish nor innovative. > > > > > > > > The Phantom Rooster ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:12:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Company of Poets - Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You may recall that a couple months ago, I announced the formation of the Company of Poets, a Yahoo discussion group. Now, I'm very pleased to announce that the Company has moved to a new domain, Jonathan Penton's unlikelystories.org. You WILL be able to post your poetry there and still enjoy the witty and charming company of some of your friends from Poetics. To join, simply send this message to: _majordomo@unlikelystories.org_ (mailto:majordomo@unlikelystories.org) subscribe companyofpoets (Type nothing on the subject line: enter the above command in the body of the message.) If you have any questions, please contact Jonathan at: _jonathan@unlikelystories.org_ (mailto:jonathan@unlikelystories.org) or me at: _ophiuchus@aol.com_ (mailto:ophiuchus@aol.com) . Thank you, Mary Jo Malo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 17:25:52 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Trevor Joyce Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? Comments: To: gpsullivan@HOTMAIL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gary, Here's an ad hoc listing of those that spring most immediately to mind,=20= aged between early thirties and mid-seventies: Mair=E9ad Byrne Patrick Galvin Fergal Gaynor Randolph Healy David Lloyd Hugh Maxton Billy Mills Maurice Scully Michael Smith Geoffrey Squires Catherine Walsh Augustus Young I also find some work by both Ciaran Carson (who read at SoundEye last=20= year) and Paul Muldoon interestingly exploratory, but I'm sure you=20 already have them on your list. An Irish-language poet whose work I don't know very well, but whom you=20= might find relevant is Gear=F3id MacLochlainn, who makes considerable = hay=20 with the inability of much of his audience to understand his work in=20 the original, and hence have to rely on his (and others') unfaithful=20 versionings into English. Though they escape the specific reach of your question, you might also=20= consider Tom Raworth (travels under an Irish passport), Maggie=20 O'Sullivan, and Fanny and Susan Howe, as being in some manifestations=20 part of the ideal Irish poetic licence for some of us now working here.=20= Also, of course, the earlier generation of MacGreevy, Beckett, Coffey,=20= Devlin, Montgomery. Best single introduction to all of this is Keith Tuma's very fine=20 Anthology of Twentieth-Century British and Irish Poetry, from O.U.P.=20 (U.S.), with exhaustive annotation by Nate Dorward. If you want me to expand on any of this, feel free to write me b/c. Best, Trevor > Hi everyone, > > Could you all send me names of Irish experimental/innovative poets? = I'm > looking specifically for people currently living in Ireland, or people=20= > born > in Ireland but who have since moved elsewhere. > > Thanks, > > Gary= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:31:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allison Cobb Subject: Fwd: send to POM2 in August! Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > POM2 is looking for submissions for Issue 6 during August! > > We publish poems that engage in some way with poems already published > in the magazine. If you've ever wanted to remix the work of Etel Adnan, > Charles Bernstein, kari edwards, Carla Harryman, Lyn Hejinian, Simon > Pettet, Kaia Sand, Edwin Torres, Anne Waldman, or a bunch of other > people, now's your chance! > > Submit up to five poems electronically to pom2@pompompress.com, subject > line "juice." Or mail to: > Allison Cobb, POM2 > 720 5th Ave. 2L > Brooklyn, NY 11215 > SASE required > > Deadline: Aug. 31 > > To view past issues, visit www.pompompress.com. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 17:43:15 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? Tom Paulin. R. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:51:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Very good Guantanamo Poets Article Comments: cc: UK POETRY , "Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I found this extraordinary piece in today's Sunday Chronicles "Nation & World" section. The poetry workshops - in terms of discipline and training - in Afghanistan and Pakistan must be something else! http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/17/MNGKQDPCV51.DTL& hw=Thomas+Coghlan&sn=001&sc=1000 I tested this URL and tho infinite appearing, it works. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 13:54:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Framing Wars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Today's NY Times magazine features linguist George Lakoff and his mission to bring language-centered critique to Democratic politics: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/magazine/17DEMOCRATS.html? ***** Recently posted on 1-Year Plan http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/index.html Post 15: Reading Celan in Costa Rica Post 16: Correlation of Paterson, book 1 (excerpts) Post 17: A Paragraph of Elfriede Jelinek ***** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:17:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Fwd: send to POM2 in August! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit did that never got a response ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:25:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: send to POM2 in August! In-Reply-To: <20050717.152256.-80599.5.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 7/17/05 3:17 PM, Steve Dalachinksy at skyplums@JUNO.COM wrote: > did that never got a response > steve, you should really reply to the editors about this, not the poetics list. also, you should know that many, if not most, editors wait until the end of a submission period to decide what work they're going to accept, so as not to accept inferior work early on and then have to refuse better work because of page constraints. the pom editors stated their deadline is aug. 31. best, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:53:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: Vancouver poet Jordan Scott on Poetry World Radio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings: I recently attended the wonderful Scream Literary Fest event in High Park in downtown Toronto. While there I interviewed Vancouver poet Jordan Scott about his explorations with "avant garde nature poetry" and the poetics of stuttering. He also reads a few illustrative poems. You can hear Jordan's interview (it's about 10 mins long) by clicking on "Charlie Says" on the homepage of www.poetrypoetry.com or you can listen to Poety World Radio and it will eventually come around as part of the mix. . . till we get the radio more developed and with its own website with a schedule, the former approach is recommended. and...we're still looking for cd's of poetry for Poetry World Radio. Charlie Rossiter 705 S. Gunderson Ave Oak Park, IL 60304 -- The truth is such a rare thing it is delightful to tell it Emily Dickinson www.poetrypoetry.com where you hear poems read by the poets who wrote them ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:04:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Gizzi, Killian, Davis at Moe's this Monday In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Peter Gizzi Kevin Killian Ray Davis reading at Moe's Books this Monday July 18th 7:30 2476 Telegraph Avenue Berkeley CA (510) 849-2087 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:39:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bircumshaw Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well Trevor your ad hoc list is a monument to tedium, you begin with Mairead Byrne , who writes drivel, then we have Randolph Healy who is an example to us all why maths teachers shouldn't pretend to be poets, then you have Billy Little who lives up to his surname. Phew! Victoria did say to me this afternoon that I can be nasty, I thought about this and did agree, but maybe my nastiness is sometimes justified. Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Joyce" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? Hi Gary, Here's an ad hoc listing of those that spring most immediately to mind, aged between early thirties and mid-seventies: Mairéad Byrne Patrick Galvin Fergal Gaynor Randolph Healy David Lloyd Hugh Maxton Billy Mills Maurice Scully Michael Smith Geoffrey Squires Catherine Walsh Augustus Young I also find some work by both Ciaran Carson (who read at SoundEye last year) and Paul Muldoon interestingly exploratory, but I'm sure you already have them on your list. An Irish-language poet whose work I don't know very well, but whom you might find relevant is Gearóid MacLochlainn, who makes considerable hay with the inability of much of his audience to understand his work in the original, and hence have to rely on his (and others') unfaithful versionings into English. Though they escape the specific reach of your question, you might also consider Tom Raworth (travels under an Irish passport), Maggie O'Sullivan, and Fanny and Susan Howe, as being in some manifestations part of the ideal Irish poetic licence for some of us now working here. Also, of course, the earlier generation of MacGreevy, Beckett, Coffey, Devlin, Montgomery. Best single introduction to all of this is Keith Tuma's very fine Anthology of Twentieth-Century British and Irish Poetry, from O.U.P. (U.S.), with exhaustive annotation by Nate Dorward. If you want me to expand on any of this, feel free to write me b/c. Best, Trevor > Hi everyone, > > Could you all send me names of Irish experimental/innovative poets? I'm > looking specifically for people currently living in Ireland, or people > born > in Ireland but who have since moved elsewhere. > > Thanks, > > Gary= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:54:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Dorward Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > ... then you have Billy > Little who lives up to his surname. Phew! >=20 > Victoria did say to me this afternoon that I can be nasty... Not to mention inobservant. --N Nate Dorward 109 Hounslow Ave, Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ndorward@ndorward.com // web: www.ndorward.com For info on recent publications: www.ndorward.com/poetry/ For the vast archive (updated monthly!) of music reviews: = www.ndorward.com/music/ & yes, there's a blog: www.ndorward.com/blog/ JUST OUT: The Gig 18: Kelvin Corcoran, Jean Day, Andrew Levy, = a.rawlings, Scott Thurston, Ralph Hawkins, Michael Boughn, David Ball, = Douglas Manson, Peter Larkin, Joan Retallack; Peter Middleton on Robert = Creeley; the usual pile of reviews.... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 01:00:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bircumshaw Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Nate person with an address. What's this about me being inobservant? Now it's quite true that I do have bad eyesight but it seems to me that your post consists of a snidey remark without substance that is typical of the school that you inhabit. I do have reason for aggreviance, to my knowledge you are not a poet yourself, I AM, and I get very bored with vampires, all they can talk about is the boxes they not-live in. Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nate Dorward" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? > ... then you have Billy > Little who lives up to his surname. Phew! > > Victoria did say to me this afternoon that I can be nasty... Not to mention inobservant. --N Nate Dorward 109 Hounslow Ave, Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ndorward@ndorward.com // web: www.ndorward.com For info on recent publications: www.ndorward.com/poetry/ For the vast archive (updated monthly!) of music reviews: www.ndorward.com/music/ & yes, there's a blog: www.ndorward.com/blog/ JUST OUT: The Gig 18: Kelvin Corcoran, Jean Day, Andrew Levy, a.rawlings, Scott Thurston, Ralph Hawkins, Michael Boughn, David Ball, Douglas Manson, Peter Larkin, Joan Retallack; Peter Middleton on Robert Creeley; the usual pile of reviews.... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:33:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Dorward Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David--If you take a closer look you will see that it's Billy Mills, not = Billy Little, on Trevor's list. --N Nate Dorward 109 Hounslow Ave, Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ndorward@ndorward.com // web: www.ndorward.com For info on recent publications: www.ndorward.com/poetry/ For the vast archive (updated monthly!) of music reviews: = www.ndorward.com/music/ & yes, there's a blog: www.ndorward.com/blog/ JUST OUT: The Gig 18: Kelvin Corcoran, Jean Day, Andrew Levy, = a.rawlings, Scott Thurston, Ralph Hawkins, Michael Boughn, David Ball, = Douglas Manson, Peter Larkin, Joan Retallack; Peter Middleton on Robert = Creeley; the usual pile of reviews.... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:22:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bircumshaw Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Point accepted Nate, I do have bad eyesight. BUT there are issues in this non-discussion wailing to be heard. What I notice about the Irish self-proclaimed avant-garde is that they present themselves a collective entity that is predicated and justified on their being innovative or the like, it hangs around a very few key words. They do not say here am I a flawed and vulnerable human being who is trying to push the edge in verse to you, no, they say we belong to a group. So one finds oneself reading Trevor's drones or Mairead's drivel while secretly thinking that Heaney or Muldoon are actually better poets. What comes across to me from their work is a desire for acceptance, a tedious wish for imposing conformity that hides from the scares of openly being human. Take care, I do think you are a good annotator you know Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nate Dorward" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:33 PM Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? David--If you take a closer look you will see that it's Billy Mills, not Billy Little, on Trevor's list. --N Nate Dorward 109 Hounslow Ave, Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ndorward@ndorward.com // web: www.ndorward.com For info on recent publications: www.ndorward.com/poetry/ For the vast archive (updated monthly!) of music reviews: www.ndorward.com/music/ & yes, there's a blog: www.ndorward.com/blog/ JUST OUT: The Gig 18: Kelvin Corcoran, Jean Day, Andrew Levy, a.rawlings, Scott Thurston, Ralph Hawkins, Michael Boughn, David Ball, Douglas Manson, Peter Larkin, Joan Retallack; Peter Middleton on Robert Creeley; the usual pile of reviews.... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 04:00:48 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's blog Comments: To: Brit Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Editing 20th century American Poetry – How big is Big? Lee Herrick’s weblog on Asian American poetry & activism A survey of online poetry A renaissance in Lawrence, KS – Black Spring’s special issue An interview with Geof Huth on visual poetry (with the help of Crag Hill) Kiosk – Going for looks before context The Poker – a complete journal from the p.o.v. of poets 35 & under Fitterman’s Zukofsky: Reading an essay in verse, 1-800 Flowers Pinsky on Palmer Gustaf Sobin, 1935-2005 Steve Benson: a note on the poem as a “problematical site of documentation of the poem” More on ezines: on Jacket & How2 Aaron Kunin’s Folding Ruler Star (on titles & texts) Geoffrey Brock: New formalism that should impress any fan of Oulipo http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:11:00 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Trevor Joyce Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? In-Reply-To: <001801c58c2c$a6832770$f4e8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the remote event of anyone actually being interested in DB's=20 demonstration of projectile vomiting, let me just note that Mair=E9ad=20 Byrne, Randolph Healy and myself have all been involved in the=20 management of poetry listservs from which he was suspended for repeated=20= unprovoked personal attacks on other listees. It might also be of interest that the Irish poet "Billy Little" who DB=20= judges "lives up to his surname" does not in fact exist. There is no=20 such Irish poet, no such poetry. I infer that his poetic deficiencies=20 stem from his (illusory) association with myself. Trevor On 19 Jul 2005, at 07:39, David Bircumshaw wrote: > Well Trevor your ad hoc list is a monument to tedium, you begin with=20= > Mairead > Byrne , who writes drivel, then we have Randolph Healy who is an=20 > example to > us all why maths teachers shouldn't pretend to be poets, then you have=20= > Billy > Little who lives up to his surname. Phew! > > Victoria did say to me this afternoon that I can be nasty, I thought=20= > about > this and did agree, but maybe my nastiness is sometimes justified. > > Best > > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Trevor Joyce" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 9:25 AM > Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? > > > Hi Gary, > > Here's an ad hoc listing of those that spring most immediately to = mind, > aged between early thirties and mid-seventies: > > Mair=E9ad Byrne > Patrick Galvin > Fergal Gaynor > Randolph Healy > David Lloyd > Hugh Maxton > Billy Mills > Maurice Scully > Michael Smith > Geoffrey Squires > Catherine Walsh > Augustus Young > > I also find some work by both Ciaran Carson (who read at SoundEye last > year) and Paul Muldoon interestingly exploratory, but I'm sure you > already have them on your list. > > An Irish-language poet whose work I don't know very well, but whom you > might find relevant is Gear=F3id MacLochlainn, who makes considerable = hay > with the inability of much of his audience to understand his work in > the original, and hence have to rely on his (and others') unfaithful > versionings into English. > > Though they escape the specific reach of your question, you might also > consider Tom Raworth (travels under an Irish passport), Maggie > O'Sullivan, and Fanny and Susan Howe, as being in some manifestations > part of the ideal Irish poetic licence for some of us now working = here. > Also, of course, the earlier generation of MacGreevy, Beckett, Coffey, > Devlin, Montgomery. > > Best single introduction to all of this is Keith Tuma's very fine > Anthology of Twentieth-Century British and Irish Poetry, from O.U.P. > (U.S.), with exhaustive annotation by Nate Dorward. > > If you want me to expand on any of this, feel free to write me b/c. > > Best, > > Trevor > >> Hi everyone, >> >> Could you all send me names of Irish experimental/innovative poets?=20= >> I'm >> looking specifically for people currently living in Ireland, or = people >> born >> in Ireland but who have since moved elsewhere. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Gary=3D > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.soundeye.org/trevorjoyce ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:45:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Announcement: Carla Harryman's *Baby* Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NOW AVAILABLE! Baby by Carla Harryman $12.50 =95 64 pages ISBN 0-9761612-1-4 Flyer: http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/pdfs/carlababy.pdf ***** Praise for Carla Harryman =93=85intelligent, sardonic, and elliptical to the point of delirium.=94= Thad=20 Ziolkoski, *Village Voice* =93=85a violence and artistry that recalls Lautr=E9amont and Samuel R.= Delany.=94=20 *Publisher=92s Weekly* =93Carla Harryman is a great wide-awake visionary=97reading her is like= playing=20 Olympic ping-pong in eight dimensions!=94 Robert Gl=FCck ***** Carla Harryman=92s latest challenge to the separation of literary genres=20 features the sensual world and critical perspectives of a maverick baby,=20 who enters the book as =93fire in the womb with a skirt.=94 Yet the baby of= =20 *Baby* is also a word whose function is and must be as pliable as a new=20 gender. One wouldn=92t want to pin baby down, for, as a representative and= =20 cognoscenti of interpenetrated past, presents, and futures, baby keeps open= =20 the capacity for revision. Harryman=92s work performs between word and=20 identity, where =93webs of knowledge systems replace stable concepts=94 and= =20 unfolding language produces the surprises and shocks between mentality and= =20 world of Baby=92s voracious analytics, ruptures, drives, and raptures. Harryman is the author of twelve books of poetry, prose plays, and essays.= =20 Her two experimental novels, *Gardener of Stars* (2001) and *The Words:=20 After Carl Sandburg=92s Rootabaga Stories and Jean-Paul Sartre* (1999) are= =20 =93explorations of the paradise and wastelands of utopian desire.=94 Other= =20 works by Harryman include two volumes of selected writing, *There Never Was= =20 a Rose Without a Thorn* (1995) and *Animal Instincts: Prose, Plays, Essays*= =20 (1989). A 2004 recipient of the award in poetry from the Foundation for=20 Contemporary Performing Arts, Harryman is widely acknowledged as an=20 innovator in poetry, prose, and interdisciplinary performance. She has also= =20 written a number of essays on innovative writing by women. A native=20 Californian,Harryman has spent much of her life in the San Francisco Bay=20 Area and now lives in Detroit, where she teaches Women=92s Studies, Creative= =20 Writing, and Literature at Wayne State University. ***** Adventures in Poetry titles are distributed as an imprint of Zephyr Press=20 by Consortium Book Sales and Distribution [www.cbsd.com] and Small Press=20 Distribution [www.spdbooks.org]. Founded in 1980, Zephyr Press publishes literary books that foster a deeper= =20 understanding of other cultures and languages. A not-for-profit cultural=20 501(c)(3) organization, we are supported in part by the National Endowment= =20 for the Arts, the Massachusetts Cultural Council, the Witter Bynner=20 Foundation, and other private foundations and donors. Please visit our=20 websites at www.adventuresinpoetry.com and www.zephyrpress.org. Contact:=20 Christopher Mattison: (617) 734-0661 ***** =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 09:05:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks to everyone who posted your lists and anthology suggestions here or backchannel. I'm familiar with Mairéad's and Randolph's work; both are wonderful poets. Gary ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 09:09:51 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Blog.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reading this morning Silliman's blog entry on antho... did it strike anyone else how Globalization..Specialization & Professionaliz... has overtaken the po www.world... neither good/bad not indifferent... what begins as some words on tongue & page ends in hierarchy pub..clique..click off/on.. Monday morning QB.drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 09:19:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Vancouver poet Jordan Scott on Poetry World Radio In-Reply-To: <2202.172.131.42.188.1121633580.squirrel@172.131.42.188> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a lit festival you might be interested in, Jim. ;) Hal Today's Special Theory of Harmony http://www.xpressed.org/fall04/theory1.pdf Halvard Johnson halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ On Jul 17, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Charlie Rossiter wrote: > Greetings: I recently attended the wonderful Scream Literary Fest > event in > High Park in downtown Toronto. While there I interviewed Vancouver > poet > Jordan Scott about his explorations with "avant garde nature poetry" > and > the poetics of stuttering. He also reads a few illustrative poems. > > You can hear Jordan's interview (it's about 10 mins long) by clicking > on > "Charlie Says" on the homepage of www.poetrypoetry.com or you can > listen > to Poety World Radio and it will eventually come around as part of the > mix. . . till we get the radio more developed and with its own website > with a schedule, the former approach is recommended. > > and...we're still looking for cd's of poetry for Poetry World Radio. > > Charlie Rossiter > 705 S. Gunderson Ave > Oak Park, IL 60304 > > -- > The truth is such a rare thing > it is delightful to tell it > Emily Dickinson > www.poetrypoetry.com > where you hear poems read > by the poets who wrote them > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 09:23:16 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Blog..Agin.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Isn't anthologizing just antoher name for keeping score... QB..monday morning...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:31:56 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Trevor Joyce" << In the remote event of anyone actually being interested in DB's demonstration of projectile vomiting ... >> Is it possible to indulge in projectile vomiting over cyberspace, I gently ask? Really, anyone who has been on the receiving end of this wouldn't parade such a tired cliche. R. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 06:37:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Seldess Subject: contemporary German poets In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi all I'm looking for direction toward contemporary German poets, people currently living and writing in Germany, especially in Berlin. Any suggestion of names I'd really appreciate. Thanks, Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 09:41:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: recently on ::fait accompli:: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit recently on ::fait accompli:: http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ *Ideas **At The Mouth of The River: A Preview of Vernon Frazer's *Improvisations* ***links to: Charles Bernstein and Brian Ferneyhough's *Shadowtime* reviewed in the New York Times: quote from the interview plus comments links to info on performances at Lincoln Center July 21 and July 22cd; [ free panel on July 20th Symposium: Shadowtime: Why Benjamin Now? Wednesday July 20, 2005 Stanley H. Kaplan Penthouse at 6:00pm Scholars discuss the life and times of cultural philosopher Walter Benjamin, subject of the opera Shadowtime. Panelists include Marjorie Perloff, moderated by Charles Bernstein] ****Reflections on Wittgenstein's *Zettel* ::fait accompli:: is http:nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:53:04 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Trevor Joyce Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Christian_B=F6k_reading,_Cork,_July_23rd?= Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, Poetryetc and poetics , UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed [apologies if you get this more than once] Christian B=F6k will be reading Sat., July 23rd., 2:30 pm C.B.S. School Sullivan's Quay Cork Ireland This, the first of a series of SoundEye events, to be held regularly throughout the year, is in association with Simon Cutts' Vinyl Project in which Christian has a text. Vinyl will be on exhibition at this venue until mid-August. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:04:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: DB's projectile vomiting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree Trevor. After feeling and smelling a bit of his bile, I just have to say the he's a SHAM GIG. Maybe he's due for another sound TOSS. God, what a miserable human being. ASsHAMeD GIGgler mArY MaLo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 09:09:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Nor Ethiop Her Gold Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed some of my recent poems Argotist Online http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Harrison%20poems.htm Blackbox http://www.williamjamesaustin.com/Thru_Amidst.html MiPOesias http://www.mipoesias.com/Volume19Issue3Gudding/harrison.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Fickleyes, Futilears, & William Wormswork http://www.cafepress.com/magpress.13251278 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:11:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Gurnis Subject: Re: contemporary German poets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >>> j_seldess@HOTMAIL.COM 7/18/2005 9:37:04 AM >>> Hi all I'm looking for direction toward contemporary German poets, people currently living and writing in Germany, especially in Berlin. Any suggestion of names I'd really appreciate. Thanks, Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:29:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: joe maneri solo gig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JOE MANERI In a rare solo appearance At the Stone (e. 2nd Street & Ave. C) Friday, July 30th, 2005 @ 8 P.M. $10 One set only Joe will have as his guest poet steve dalachinsky For info call 1212-925-5256 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:19:19 +0100 Reply-To: wild honey press Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wild honey press Subject: Re: DB's opinions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In haste. I would heartily agree with David that Heaney and Muldoon are very fine poets. However, I disagree with some of the other opinions he's expressed and would consider the poetry of Mairead Byrne, Trevor Joyce, Geoffrey Squires, Billy Mills, Catherine Walsh, Maurice Scully, David Lloyd, among the others mentioned, to be excellent. (And thanks Gary for the thumbs up.) . As Trevor pointed out, I have in past suspended David from a listserv. I was new to the game than, and have never been happy with that decision. The line between robust humour and something else can be very difficult to determine. Sorry, David. I wasn't up to making such close calls. It does seem to me though, that Mary Jo's post was unfair and unacceptable. There is still the possibility of a discussion. Don't kill it off like that. Ona positive note, as a balance to the tone-stripping effect of e-mail, those who would like to hear an illiterate brummie and his mates in full flow can click http://www.wildhoneypress.com/voices/voicelist.html It might be a little slow in starting, but these three, David Bircumshaw, Robin Hamilton and Dominic Fox are worth waiting for. (And the others are great too!) best Randolph Randolph Healy www.wildhoneypress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:32:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: In Defense Of Poetry Comments: To: wryting , webartery , rhizome , netbehaviour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ##################################################### $yeah = chunk_split(base64_encode($sonnets)); echo $yeah; #################################################### In Defense Of Poetry http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/in_defense_of_poetry/ PHP/JavaScript *************************************************************************** No More Movements... Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/||| __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:40:12 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Snyder in the Guardian Comments: To: Lucifer Poetics , Brit Po MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There is a nice, if somewhat curious, piece on Gary Snyder in the Guardian: http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1529389,00.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 05:48:07 +0900 Reply-To: Uh Ak Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Uh Ak Subject: I am very disappointed in POETICLIST. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I am very disappointed in POETICLIST. I am a poor Korean writer suffering a deadly Korean environment. After barely solving the translation barrier, I sent the message with my homepage www.xqqqx.com where my texts are. But getting no reply makes me so sad. I just want to communicate with people who love expermental literature, since there is nobody in Korea. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:52:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: New on the blog Comments: cc: "Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, UK POETRY Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Forms: Spirals, Thought & Such Form: Poetry & The Garden Iconic Words On Translation: Sappho, Rexroth & Spicer Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:59:53 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: an INSPIRING man from Turkey! read about Mehmet Tarhan.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This man is my newest hero, seriously, he's so incredibly brave! =20 Scroll down to read article, CAConrad _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/)=20 "Art, instead of being an object made by one person, is a process=20 set into motion by a group of people. Art's socialized." --John Cage, 1967 "I know the butterfly is my soul grown weak from battle." --John Wieners ------------- =20 International protests in support of gay Turkish refusenik Mehmet Tarhan=20 took place on 12 July -- the day of his military trial following his refusa= l to=20 be drafted -- in London, New York and Venice.=20 Organized by Payday and Wages Due Lesbians, these protests demanded Mr Tarh= an =E2=80=99s immediate release from jail, and recognition of his conscientiou= s=20 objector status.=20 Detained in Sivas military prison since 8 April, he has been attacked,=20 robbed, humiliated and abused with the connivance of prison guards. Only a= fter a=20 month-long hunger strike was his safety ensured. =20 At his previous trial on 9 June, Mr Tarhan was released by a judge because= =20 he had "already spent two months in prison, which is about the time he would= =20 have to serve if finally sentenced". Yet, he was charged again and returne= d=20 to military prison to face another trial. =20 Mehmet Tarhan is part of a huge movement of refuseniks and draft evaders in= =20 Turkey =E2=80=93 over 350,000. Many are Kurds refusing to kill and repress=20= their own=20 people. As Mehmet Tarhan says: =E2=80=9CThe way to stop war is to deprive=20= it of its=20 human resource.=E2=80=9D=20 As a gay man, Mehmet could have claimed a =E2=80=9Cdisability=E2=80=9D disc= harge because=20 the Turkish military considers homosexuality an illness, but he has instead= =20 demanded his right to recognition as a conscientious objector. According t= o=20 Wages Due Lesbians, =E2=80=9Cequality=E2=80=9D is no better: =E2=80=9CHavin= g an integrated military=20 that bombs, tortures and maims people is not a victory for diversity!=E2= =80=9D=20 The lively LONDON picket in front of the Turkish Embassy had placards=20 stating: =E2=80=9CFree Mehmet Tarhan =E2=80=93 jailed for refusing to kill= =E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CStop the murder=20 and rape of Kurdish women, children and men.=E2=80=9D =20 Protesters raised that Turkey=E2=80=99s military spending represents one-th= ird of=20 its budget, and that resources everywhere should be used for caring and not= =20 killing. =E2=80=9CAfter the London bombs, bringing the troops home is more= urgent than=20 ever.=E2=80=9D =20 Speakers also condemned the growing repression here =E2=80=93 the denial of= the=20 right to protest in Parliament Square, the spread of Anti-Social Behaviour=20 Orders, particularly targeting young people, and as one mother put it, =E2= =80=9Cthe growing=20 militarization and =E2=80=98policisation=E2=80=99 of our schools.=E2=80=9D=20 In NEW YORK, protesters spoke to a Consulate representative who rejected=20 their claims, but was visibly shaken by them. Consulate employees and visi= tors,=20 as well as hundreds of others in the United Nations district, took leaflets= .=20 =20 In VENICE, too hundreds took leaflets including tourists who will carry the= =20 word back to other European countries. Turkey hopes to join the European=20 Union by presenting a sanitised record on human rights, but Mehmet Tarhan= =E2=80=99s=20 experience exposes both the repression inside Turkey and the massive resist= ance to=20 it. =20 Mr Tarhan=E2=80=99s trial was deferred until 4 August. Meanwhile, people are= invited=20 to write directly to him as well as the Turkish authorities and MEPs callin= g=20 for his urgent release. (For more information, including addresses see=20 _www.refusingtokill.net_ (http://www.refusingtokill.net/) ).=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:15:06 -0400 Reply-To: Vireo Nefer Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vireo Nefer Subject: Re: I am very disappointed in POETICLIST. Comments: To: Uh Ak In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Poor Korean writer; ok, i like "The Theory of the Moving-stairs" and esp. enamoured of the phrase/image ' The bugs are holding the broken slices of stone in their mouth' and "Timeless Age" seems to be an invigorating ocean of reading! Vireo --=20 AIM: vireonefer LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dvireoibis VireoNyx Publications: http://www.vireonyxpub.org INK: http://www.inkemetic.org ----------- On 7/18/05, Uh Ak wrote: > I am very disappointed in POETICLIST. > I am a poor Korean writer suffering a deadly Korean environment. > After barely solving the translation barrier, I sent the message with > my homepage www.xqqqx.com > where my texts are. > But getting no reply makes me so sad. >=20 > I just want to communicate with people who love expermental > literature, since there is nobody in Korea. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:27:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let's not forget Simon Cutts. Jonathan Williams has his address in Ireland. He has some fantastic books of experimental poetry, for instance A SMELL OF PRINTING (Granary Books) _http://www.granarybooks.com/books/smell_of_printing/smell_of_printing1.html_ (http://www.granarybooks.com/books/smell_of_printing/smell_of_printing1.html) SEEPAGES (Jargon Society) _http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=0912330686_ (http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=0912330686) (and my favorite) PIANO STOOL FOOTNOTES _http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=SIMON+CUTTS&y=13&tn=PIAN O+STOOL&x=72_ (http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=SIMON+CUTTS&y=13&tn=PIANO+STOOL&x=72) Was just looking for a photograph of Simon Cutts on the Jargon Webpage, because I know I've seen one there, but can't find it now, but wanted to share this amazing page! Take a look at photographs of, Niedecker, Loy, Levertov, Sandra Fisher, Thomas Meyer, and David Hockney by clicking here: _http://jargonbooks.com/gallery6_2004.html_ (http://jargonbooks.com/gallery6_2004.html) anyway, CAConrad _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) "Art, instead of being an object made by one person, is a process set into motion by a group of people. Art's socialized." --John Cage, 1967 "I know the butterfly is my soul grown weak from battle." --John Wieners ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:50:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: Re: I am very disappointed in POETICLIST. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Uh Ak, I think you are an AWESOME poet. I'm glad you complained because otherwise I might not have noticed your poems. I'm an English teacher and I have a lot of Korean students. They seem to be having a good time in New York. Why not come and check it out here if Korea is such a deadly drag? Kamsamnida, Nada http://ululate.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:35:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Craig, Ray (SOA)" Subject: dear akuh disappointed in poeticlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable dear akuh disappointed in poeticlist don't throw away your urine in the trashcan only for humans =20 dear akhu solving the translation barrier I could not tell apart whether he was eating orange or eating his tongue =20 dear akhu suffering poeticlist environment=20 oxygen for gift I panted it blue as my elder brother would rob mine =20 dear akhu getting no reply it is more suitable to talk about which side of teeth to make conversatio= n =20 dear akhu there is nobody in poeticlist=20 you can talk without covering your mouth =20 =20 (dear akhu re-inserted with apology extracted from timeless age posted at xqqx =20 =20 Ray=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DISCLAIMER=20 The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are confidential to the i= ntended recipient and may also be legally privileged. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorized to receive for the addr= essee) of this email you may not copy, disclose or distribute it to=20 anyone else. =20 If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by= =20e-mail on postmaster@segaamerica.com and then delete the=20 email and any copies. The SEGA Group have made all reasonable efforts to= =20ensure that this e-mail and any attached documents or=20 software are free from software viruses, but it is the recipient's respon= sibility to confirm this. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 01:20:40 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: I am very disappointed in POETICLIST. In-Reply-To: <200507190001.1dUJiy4Li3Nl34f0@mx-roseate.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting that the premiere web artist of today is a Korean in Seoul who translates her works into faultless English, Japanese, Spanish, Japanese, French and German but this person at xqqqx.com can't even get English verb tenses right. I suppose "Uh Ak" (or "Ak Uh") is a Jack Spicer fan also? http://www.yhchang.com/ Curious. ;) Xo, Scarlett J. Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 05:48:07 +0900 From: Uh Ak Subject: I am very disappointed in POETICLIST. I am very disappointed in POETICLIST. I am a poor Korean writer suffering a deadly Korean environment. After barely solving the translation barrier, I sent the message with my homepage www.xqqqx.com where my texts are. But getting no reply makes me so sad. I just want to communicate with people who love expermental literature, since there is nobody in Korea. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:08:57 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Trevor Joyce Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? In-Reply-To: <1a2.37d3aea1.300db0e6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, Simon has produced some beautiful books, including work by Susan =20= Howe. The recent SoundEye festival shared a venue with his Vinyl =20 project in Cork, and Christian B=F6k will be reading there next = Saturday. The Vinyl website: http://www.coracle.ie/pages/projects.html Trevor On 19 Jul 2005, at 02:27, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > Let's not forget Simon Cutts. > > Jonathan Williams has his address in Ireland. > > He has some fantastic books of experimental poetry, for instance > A SMELL OF PRINTING (Granary Books) > _http://www.granarybooks.com/books/smell_of_printing/=20 > smell_of_printing1.html_ > (http://www.granarybooks.com/books/smell_of_printing/=20 > smell_of_printing1.html) > > SEEPAGES (Jargon Society) > _http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=3D0912330686_ > (http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=3D0912330686) > > (and my favorite) PIANO STOOL FOOTNOTES > _http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?=20 > an=3DSIMON+CUTTS&y=3D13&tn=3DPIAN > O+STOOL&x=3D72_ > (http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?=20 > an=3DSIMON+CUTTS&y=3D13&tn=3DPIANO+STOOL&x=3D72) > > Was just looking for a photograph of Simon Cutts on the Jargon =20 > Webpage, > because I know I've seen one there, but can't find it now, but wanted = =20 > to > share this amazing page! Take a look at photographs of, > Niedecker, Loy, Levertov, Sandra Fisher, Thomas Meyer, and David =20 > Hockney > by clicking here: _http://jargonbooks.com/gallery6_2004.html_ > (http://jargonbooks.com/gallery6_2004.html) > > anyway, > CAConrad > _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) > "Art, instead of being an object made by one person, is a process > set into motion by a group of people. Art's socialized." > --John Cage, 1967 > > "I know the butterfly is my soul > grown weak from battle." > --John Wieners > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.soundeye.org/trevorjoyce ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 12:05:54 +0100 Reply-To: wild honey press Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wild honey press Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, indeed, Craig, Simon Cutts. And Erica Van Horn. best Randolph ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:46:17 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Australian ID Card Comments: To: rsillima@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <20050613130040.66527.qmail@web51104.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "If you've got nothing to hide, why should you worry about having an ID card", said Peter Beattie in support of John Howard's proposal to = introduce a National ID card.=20 Terrorism is a very terrifying thought these days. The world appears to = be at Peace, but secretly it is at War. And the war is a war that knows no borders. We have seen the battlefields on our Televisions and in the Newspapers.=20 So now, the ALP and the LIB-NAT coalition agree on the ID card. One can assume that within twelve months we who have tax file numbers, or social security cards, or medicare cards, or drivers' licenses, or passports, = or bank debt, or criminal records, or communicable diseases, or electoral enrolment, will have all our data neatly stored and accessible via one = ID card.=20 At Griffith, in the School of Bio-Art, we have gone one step further. = During the first week of first Semester all the first year students enrolled in = our School's degree programs were systematically laser tatooed. The wrist = tatoo, visible only under black ultra-violet light and like the magnetic strip = of an ID card can be 'loaded' with information. The data or information can then be retrieved by use of a data reader or scanner. All kinds of information has been loaded to date; student numbers, home addresses, aus-study details; hecs details; personal course timetables; details of enrolment; email account details; academic record; medical information, allergies, medications, blood type, organ donor status, = etc; computer lab log-in details, usernames and passwords; library = priveleges; building access and restrictions; car park entry; photocopying accounts; = all linked by a central financial status account and management system. Of course this has been very expensive initially. We could not have = achieved this without the financial backing of the company that supplies the = laser tatooing and data loading super-computers. Our biggest expense really = was fitting data readers. We had to install data readers on every locked = door and boom-gate in the School; on every computer in all the Teaching and common use laboratories; in the library and at Student Administration. = Our 'smart' building now knows who to allow to park their car in the car = park, which lecture theatre, tutorial room or computer lab to allow access to = and at what times they are allowed access. At the same time as offering = maximum flexibility and keyless entry the building is totally secure and = protected from non-authorised persons. All equipment, videos, computers, = projectors etc have been laser tatooed also and their movement and location = detected. Teachers no longer mark rolls or check attendances, it is all logged for them by DataCentral, accessible via the secured University website. Students can choose to purchase or lease additional peripheral devices = like strap-on wireless readers which allow them to connect their data tatoo = to their mobile phone for refreshing data and uploads. Students can also = use their wrist-reader to download from their directories at DataCentral = (exam results, reminders, fee due dates, etc.) Uptake of the wrist-readers has been slow but we expect will increase as more commercial and community services come on board; banks, supermarkets, department stores, record shops, fashion houses etc.. There are so many potential applications of = this data co-ordination system. If Mr Howard and Mr Beattie are serious about introducing the ID card = for security reasons, they should seriously consider the benefits of the = laser tattoo and the wearable data reader. Our next project is to make the = mobile phone a wearable item, consolidating the dial-pad onto the wrist-reader = and implanting a small microphone into a tooth, and a small earphone into = the ear like an earring. This will have the added security benefit of being = able to find the wearer at any time via the phone's Global Positioning System technology, even if the phone is not being used. Whilst cards seem to be = a cheaper option, the laser tattoos are something that you can not be separated from, your identity remains on your person at all times. Or = does it? Consider who the real terrorists are here. komninos All views expressed are those of:=20 komninos zervos lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major School of Arts Griffith University Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 Gold Coast Campus Parkwood PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre Queensland 9726 Australia Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs komninos zervos lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major School of Arts Griffith University Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 Gold Coast Campus Parkwood PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre Queensland 9726 Australia Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of Ron Silliman |||Sent: Monday, 13 June 2005 11:01 PM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: Silliman's Blog ||| |||http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ||| |||RECENT POSTS ||| |||Online vs. print poets =96 |||is there a difference? ||| |||Some recent online publications ||| |||The six functions of language |||& the meaning of meaning ||| |||Thomas A. Clark =96 |||An Objectivist in Scotland ||| |||How books represent poetry: |||Jennifer Moxley, Ronald Johnson et al ||| |||Open Field: |||30 Contemporary Canadian Poets ||| |||How to read Clark Coolidge ||| |||Peter O=92Leary on Ronald Johnson ||| |||Selecting Zukofsky: |||editing the short poems ||| |||Selecting Zukofsky: |||Distilling =93A=94 ||| |||William Shakespeare, post avant ||| |||Which major romantic poet would you be |||(if you were a major romantic poet)? ||| |||Some notes on community |||& other responses |||to Jonathan Mayhew=92s questions ||| |||http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.9 - Release Date: 11/06/05 ||| --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.1/51 - Release Date: 18/07/05 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 12:56:17 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Australian ID Card MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable very Auschwitz L -----Original Message----- From: K Zervos To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:45 PM Subject: Australian ID Card ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 08:28:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: Snyder in the Guardian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is a nice article. Why curious? Mary Jo ********* There is a nice, if somewhat curious, piece on Gary Snyder in the Guardian: _http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1529389,00.html_ (http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1529389,00.html) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:36:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Trevor Joyce has provided a useful list of Irish poets and poets with Irish connections. Not surprising, since Joyce is a central figure not only in supporting new poetry in Ireland but also connecting poets in Ireland to those with whom they have affinities in the UK and US. It is a good thing that Joyce, Maurice Scully, Randolph Healey, and others, have worked so hard to create these connections, since Irish poets working outside the convenient and narrow markers of dominant styles have a hard time getting their work known in their own country and beyond -- and for that matter finding each other. When I was in Cork recently for the SoundEye poetry festival, it was a pleasure to reconnect with Catherine Walsh, whom we had invited to Buffalo in the early 90s and who remains a favorite poet of mine. I highly recommend her books -- Short Stories, Pitch, and Eatortha & Making Tents. (Walsh co-edits hardPressed Poetry press with her husband, the poet Billy Mills: http://gofree.indigo.ie/~hpp/frame.html.) The good news I heard at Cork is that Wild Honey Press is going to be doing a new, large collection of Walsh's work. This will add to the already substantial set of books published by Randolph Healey at Wild Honey. Healey's work with Wild Honey is a classic case of a poet with very limited support managing to do major cultural work. The Wild Honey website is at http://www.wildhoneypress.com/ I would also recommend Healey's 2002 collection from Salt Publishing, Green 532 -- about which I wrote a few words at the time of publication -- **If poetry can sometimes be the right thing for the right reason, then Randolph Healey's Green 532 has all les mots justes -- just notes -- to shake the tale loose from the tribe and dance with it. Lurking, like a lark, somewhere between "reflection and shadow", these poems are cosmological forays into the "fragile, transitory, precarious" uncertainty that underlies our ability to respond.** I first encountered the work of Geoffrey Squires at his Cork reading. I immediately picked up his collection from Wild Honey -- Untitled and Other Poems 1975-2002. The line that first caught my ear was "a deep immobility even in things that can be moved" but then, quick upon: "liquidity of noise that one almost see" & "the broken refracted light". These spare yet somehow lushly dark, epistemologically searching poems suggested, at first, a fusion of William Bronk and Merrill Gilfillan. The lines noted are from Landscape & Silences (originally published by Dublin's New Writers' Press in 1996), in which Squires creates a poem that distends time; that is, slows it down so much that it thickens in the ear. Reading further, I am stuck by Squires's uncanny ability to use the lyric as fault line for the intersection of perception and consciousness. Also to note: most of his poems are serial (in the sense of Oppen's Discrete Series); seriality in this work is linked both to Squire's immanent ecopoetics and suffused phenomenology. Trevor's Joyce's list of Irish and Irish related poets posted to Poetics is at http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0507&L=poetics&D=1&O=D&F=&S=&P=24372 & indeed, CA Conrad is right -- Simon Cutts is a terrific book artist; his "Vinyl" show was the backdrop to the SoundEye Festival. See more at Cutts's and Erica Van Horn's Coracle Press website -- http://www.coracle.ie Charles Bernstein ---------------------- http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/shadowtime/LCF.html http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/new.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:04:35 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Karl Rove: A Bedwetter's Anger Turned Outward Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA Comments: cc: flpoint@hotmail.com, ibid1@earthlink.net, moyercdmm@EARTHLINK.NET, CMJBalso@aol.com, alphavil@ix.netcom.com, harrysandy@kreative.net, Amzemel@aol.com, ac7460@wayne.edu, anastasios.kozaitis@verizon.net, Sondheim@panix.com, akhasawn@umich.edu, bentatar@yahoo.com, cfj@umd.umich.edu, drlevitt@pacbell.net, emlevitt@pacbell.net, fraganhome@earthlink.net, jgaugn@umd.umich.edu, leon@leonmilo.com, lorber@freepress.com, slbogin@juno.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Karl Rove: A Bedwetter's Anger Turned Outward.: Being 'A Piece Of Shit' May Be Catching-Up With White House Chief Of Stink Karl Rove: Fact That It Took So Long To Finger Rove Demonstrates The Moral Bankruptcy Of The American Way Of Life If Not The Entire Enlightenment Project: Karl Rove: His Father Abandoned Him; His Mother Committed Suicide, But The World Is Getting Tired Of Paying the Price For His Pathology: Did Rove's Mother Kill Herself When She Realized What She Had Brought Into The World?: BY G.REESY PALMER ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:29:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: modern irish poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a nice very little history of Irish poetry, including modern, northern and gaelic tongue. There are also quite a few of the dreaded or beloved anthologies which can be googled amazonian style. _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_poetry_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_poetry) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:04:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: David Meltzer tribute- call for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear List, I will be publishing a celebration and critical reflection of David = Meltzer for the January issue of Big Bridge. I am looking for = submissions by October. Have you got anything? If so please query. Also, = please forward this request on to others, I welcome recommendations for = contributors. David's Copy, David's Selected poems will be out from = Penguin in October.=20 Best, Michael Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:38:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Damon/aND--READING & BOOK RELEASE PARTY Comments: To: dreamtime@yahoogroups.com, spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, Writing and Theory across Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed READING & BOOK RELEASE PARTY introducing: pleasureTEXTpossession by Maria Damon & mIEKAL aND w/ an infusion of vocalese by jUStin katKO 7 pm Friday July 22, 2005 Magers and Quinn 3038 Hennepin Ave Minneapolis, MN tollfree 1-866-912-6657 ____ "Boisterous and engaging collaboration culminating in a visual tour de=20= force, 'E.n.t.r.a.n.c.e.d'" --Charles Bernstein "They finish each other's sentences" and "violate each other's=20 intentions in / camaraderie of the Word." =A0Maria Damon and mIEKAL aND=20= celebrate, in surprisingly various and ingenious ways, what the title=20 of one poem calls "Volupt=E9 de Langue." =A0pleasureTEXTpossession is a=20= verbal/visual feast where "edible pentagrams" pop up in "fearfree=20 flotation" to delight the reader. =A0 --Marjorie Perloff "E.n.t.r.a.n.c.e.d" in particular knocked my socks off. --Vernon Frazer pleasureTEXTpossession ISBN 84-87467-42-3 $10, 64 pages Cover photos by Liaizon Wakest La Laguna: Zasterle Press 2005 http://webpages.ull.es/users/mbrito/damon-and.htm Distributed by spdbooks.org Contact memexikon@mwt.net for review copies. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:06:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: J. G. Roberts - the Bush Court Nominee - the profile Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable And - according to the NY Times - the Nominee for U.S. Supreme Court Justic= e is: John G. Roberts Jr. From dKosopedia, the free political encyclopedia. (his record is on lower half of this doc, if you want to jump to this conservative's grit - i.e. If you are not of his persuasion, time to reach for the pocket book. This one will take the "tilt" out of O'Connor's "swing= " and give Court ownership to the Right). =20 John G. Roberts Jr. (born in Buffalo, New York, 1955) is a judge on the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, having been nominated by President George W. Bush on May 9, 2001, and confirmed by the United States Senate on May 8, 2003. Roberts graduated from Harvard College in 1976. Roberts receivied his Juris Doctorate from the Harvard Law School in 1979. He was a law clerk for Henry Friendly, U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, 1979-1980, and for Associate Justice William Rehnquist, Supreme Court of the United States, 1980-1981. He then took a job as special assistant to William French Smith, the attorney general, U.S. Department of Justice, 1981-1982, before being appointed associate counsel to President Ronald Reagan, White House Counsel's Office, 1982-1986. He entered private practice in 1986 as an associate at the Washington D.C. law firm of Hogan & Hartson, but left to serve from 1989-1993 as Principal Deputy Solicitor General, U.S. Department of Justice. He returned to Hogan and Harston in 1993 as a partner where he remained until he was appointed t= o the Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. In private practice and as Principal Deputy Solicitor General he has argued more than 30 cases in front of the United States Supreme Court. Roberts has been mentioned frequently as being near the top of the list of potential nominees to the Supreme Court of the United States, should one of the current justices leave the Court during George W. Bush's presidency. Table of contents [showhide] 1 Judicial outlook and record 1.1 Civil Rights and Liberties 1.2 Separation of Church and State 1.3 Environmental Protection and Property Rights 1.4 Criminal Law 1.5 Habeas Corpus 1.6 Abortion 1.7 Judicial Philosophy 2 References 3 Affiliations 4 External links Judicial outlook and record Roberts has been floated as a nominee who could win widespread support in the Senate. Not so likely. He hasn't been on the bench long enough for his judicial opinions to provide much ammunition for liberal opposition groups. But his record as a lawyer for the Reagan and first Bush administrations an= d in private practice is down-the-line conservative on key contested fronts, including abortion, separation of church and state, and environmental protection.=20 Civil Rights and Liberties For a unanimous panel, denied the weak civil rights claims of a 12-year-old girl who was arrested and handcuffed in a Washington, D.C., Metro station for eating a French fry. Roberts noted that "no one is very happy about the events that led to this litigation" and that the Metro authority had change= d the policy that led to her arrest. (Hedgepeth v. Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, 2004). In private practice, wrote a friend-of-the-court brief arguing that Congres= s had failed to justify a Department of Transportation affirmative action program. (Adarand Constructors, Inc. v. Mineta, 2001). For Reagan, opposed a congressional effort=8Bin the wake of the 1980 Supreme Court decision Mobile v. Bolden=8Bto make it easier for minorities to successfully argue that their votes had been diluted under the Voting Right= s Act.=20 Separation of Church and State For Bush I, co-authored a friend-of-the-court brief arguing that public high-school graduation programs could include religious ceremonies. The Supreme Court disagreed by a vote of 5-4. (Lee v. Weisman, 1992) Environmental Protection and Property Rights Voted for rehearing in a case about whether a developer had to take down a fence so that the arroyo toad could move freely through its habitat. Robert= s argued that the panel was wrong to rule against the developer because the regulations on behalf of the toad, promulgated under the Endangered Species Act, overstepped the federal government's power to regulate interstate commerce. At the end of his opinion, Roberts suggested that rehearing would allow the court to "consider alternative grounds" for protecting the toad that are "more consistent with Supreme Court precedent." (Rancho Viejo v. Nortion, 2003)=20 For Bush I, argued that environmental groups concerned about mining on public lands had not proved enough about the impact of the government's actions to give them standing to sue. The Supreme Court adopted this argument. (Lujan v. National Wildlife Federation, 1990) Criminal Law=20 Joined a unanimous opinion ruling that a police officer who searched the trunk of a car without saying that he was looking for evidence of a crime (the standard for constitutionality) still conducted the search legally, because there was a reasonable basis to think contraband was in the trunk, regardless of whether the officer was thinking in those terms. (U.S. v. Brown, 2004)=20 Habeas Corpus=20 Joined a unanimous opinion denying the claim of a prisoner who argued that by tightening parole rules in the middle of his sentence, the government subjected him to an unconstitutional after-the-fact punishment. The panel reversed its decision after a Supreme Court ruling directly contradicted it= . (Fletcher v. District of Columbia, 2004) Abortion=20 For Bush I, successfully helped argue that doctors and clinics receiving federal funds may not talk to patients about abortion. (Rust v. Sullivan, 1991)=20 Judicial Philosophy Concurring in a decision allowing President Bush to halt suits by Americans against Iraq as the country rebuilds, Roberts called for deference to the executive and for a literal reading of the relevant statute. (Acree v. Republic of Iraq, 2004) In an article written as a law student, argued that the phrase "just compensation" in the Fifth Amendment, which limits the government in the taking of private property, should be "informed by changing norms of justice." This sounds like a nod to liberal constitutional theory, but Rogers' alternative interpretation was more protective of property interest= s than Supreme Court law at the time. References * Department of Justice Biography Affiliations=20 * Republican Party External links=20 * The Supreme Court Shortlist - Slate magazine, Friday, July 1, 2005 =A0 Edit this page | Discuss this page | Page history | What links here | Related changes Main Page | About dKosopedia | Recent changes Go=A0Search This page has been accessed 319 times. This page was last modified 03:08, 6 Jul 2005. All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License= . =20 =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Main Page=20 Recent changes=20 Random page=20 Current events=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edit this page=20 Discuss this page=20 Page history=20 What links here=20 Related changes=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Special pages=20 Bug reports=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Daily Kos=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:45:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Re: DB's opinions MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It is sometimes hard to get the news from Poetics-list these days. In addition to what Randolph refers to as the "tone-stripping effect of e-mail," it might be helpful to consider that not all readers of and contributors to this list are constantly following all the threads--mine is, I admit, a quite inconstant presence--and thus not always keyed into the particular, interpersonal dynamics structuring (or perhaps explaining) some of the rhetoric. I very much enjoyed Trevor's "drone" when he read at our house in Buffalo a couple of years back: especially the tour de force poem "Syzygy," from the collection _With the First Dream of Fire They Hunt the Cold_. This nine-page work synthesizes and permutates medieval form (the palindromic cancrizans), serial composition, astronomy, Scottish salmon "superstition," local fishing economy (and geology and architecture), Swedish folklore, imperial Chinese and British surveying, surrealism (in a great line from Neruda:"the red noise of bones"), the symbolic anthropology of Mary Douglas, Irish Song Tradition, and language from the financial times. For its feat of combinatorial "form" alone, the piece is worth a study. But it also is a serial exploration of the ambiguities of identity, whose global reach richly calls into question precisely the kinds of labelings and group identifications/ exclusions Trevor's name seems to have become a magnet for on this list: "the quickening across these settlements disturbs what wind" . . . Also of note: the distilled filial Joycean block (14 pages, single spaced, all caps) that is Trevor's "Stillsman" (published in 2003 in a chapbook, _Undone, Say_, by the indefatigable Nate Doward--who does a *lot* more than annotate anthologies: CHECK OUT his very constant and focused _The Gig_, esp. the recent _Entanglement_s of Allen Fisher: http://www.ndorward.com/poetry/ ). I also was delighted and surprised by Mairead Byrne's readings, during some "open mike" sessions hosted by Bill Howe at the University of Maine at Orono's 1940s Conference last summer. Crisp, original stuff! My only complaint about her performances was that they ended too soon . . . I am looking forward to seeing her new chapbook, _An Educated Heart_, just out from Palm Press: http://www.palmpress.org/ Thus I was eager, when I saw the subject heading, to learn more about "Irish Experimental Poets," only to become distressed at some of the content of yesterday's posts. Not that I mind a bit of sharpness here and there, but this seemed pretty flamey! In retrospect, I now realize that it may have been little more than hearty back-slapping between old friends. But how would those of us not "in on the conversation" know? Then again, perhaps it was provocation, intended to draw out exactly this sort of discussion. Which then becomes more of a reflection on list-lurkers like me . . . JS ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:11:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: J. G. Roberts - the Bush Court Nominee - the profile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tidy that this comes just in time to get us off the Spiral Rovie. My concern is: It's just that. Leave the summer for one and all to scorch the earth, making fall- guy Roberts (and the Democrats) into nothing more than a grease stain, whilst getting all minds off Rove, and all the while lining up the October souffle... a secondary stealth judicial nomination. Just the same though, I thank you with promptly rming with J. G. R.'s record! Gerald S. And - according to the NY Times - the Nominee for U.S. Supreme Court Justice is: John G. Roberts Jr. From dKosopedia, the free political encyclopedia. (his record is on lower half of this doc, if you want to jump to this conservative's grit - i.e. If you are not of his persuasion, time to reach for the pocket book. This one will take the "tilt" out of O'Connor's "swing" and give Court ownership to the Right). John G. Roberts Jr. (born in Buffalo, New York, 1955) is a judge on the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, having been nominated by President George W. Bush on May 9, 2001, and confirmed by the United States Senate on May 8, 2003. Roberts graduated from Harvard College in 1976. Roberts receivied his Juris Doctorate from the Harvard Law School in 1979. He was a law clerk for Henry Friendly, U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, 1979-1980, and for Associate Justice William Rehnquist, Supreme Court of the United States, 1980-1981. He then took a job as special assistant to William French Smith, the attorney general, U.S. Department of Justice, 1981-1982, before being appointed associate counsel to President Ronald Reagan, White House Counsel's Office, 1982-1986. He entered private practice in 1986 as an associate at the Washington D.C. law firm of Hogan & Hartson, but left to serve from 1989-1993 as Principal Deputy Solicitor General, U.S. Department of Justice. He returned to Hogan and Harston in 1993 as a partner where he remained until he was appointed to the Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. In private practice and as Principal Deputy Solicitor General he has argued more than 30 cases in front of the United States Supreme Court. Roberts has been mentioned frequently as being near the top of the list of potential nominees to the Supreme Court of the United States, should one of the current justices leave the Court during George W. Bush's presidency. Table of contents [showhide] 1 Judicial outlook and record 1.1 Civil Rights and Liberties 1.2 Separation of Church and State 1.3 Environmental Protection and Property Rights 1.4 Criminal Law 1.5 Habeas Corpus 1.6 Abortion 1.7 Judicial Philosophy 2 References 3 Affiliations 4 External links Judicial outlook and record Roberts has been floated as a nominee who could win widespread support in the Senate. Not so likely. He hasn't been on the bench long enough for his judicial opinions to provide much ammunition for liberal opposition groups. But his record as a lawyer for the Reagan and first Bush administrations and in private practice is down-the-line conservative on key contested fronts, including abortion, separation of church and state, and environmental protection. Civil Rights and Liberties For a unanimous panel, denied the weak civil rights claims of a 12-year-old girl who was arrested and handcuffed in a Washington, D.C., Metro station for eating a French fry. Roberts noted that "no one is very happy about the events that led to this litigation" and that the Metro authority had changed the policy that led to her arrest. (Hedgepeth v. Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, 2004). In private practice, wrote a friend-of-the-court brief arguing that Congress had failed to justify a Department of Transportation affirmative action program. (Adarand Constructors, Inc. v. Mineta, 2001). For Reagan, opposed a congressional effort Court decision Mobile v. Bolden successfully argue that their votes had been diluted under the Voting Rights Act. Separation of Church and State For Bush I, co-authored a friend-of-the-court brief arguing that public high-school graduation programs could include religious ceremonies. The Supreme Court disagreed by a vote of 5-4. (Lee v. Weisman, 1992) Environmental Protection and Property Rights Voted for rehearing in a case about whether a developer had to take down a fence so that the arroyo toad could move freely through its habitat. Roberts argued that the panel was wrong to rule against the developer because the regulations on behalf of the toad, promulgated under the Endangered Species Act, overstepped the federal government's power to regulate interstate commerce. At the end of his opinion, Roberts suggested that rehearing would allow the court to "consider alternative grounds" for protecting the toad that are "more consistent with Supreme Court precedent." (Rancho Viejo v. Nortion, 2003) For Bush I, argued that environmental groups concerned about mining on public lands had not proved enough about the impact of the government's actions to give them standing to sue. The Supreme Court adopted this argument. (Lujan v. National Wildlife Federation, 1990) Criminal Law Joined a unanimous opinion ruling that a police officer who searched the trunk of a car without saying that he was looking for evidence of a crime (the standard for constitutionality) still conducted the search legally, because there was a reasonable basis to think contraband was in the trunk, regardless of whether the officer was thinking in those terms. (U.S. v. Brown, 2004) Habeas Corpus Joined a unanimous opinion denying the claim of a prisoner who argued that by tightening parole rules in the middle of his sentence, the government subjected him to an unconstitutional after-the-fact punishment. The panel reversed its decision after a Supreme Court ruling directly contradicted it. (Fletcher v. District of Columbia, 2004) Abortion For Bush I, successfully helped argue that doctors and clinics receiving federal funds may not talk to patients about abortion. (Rust v. Sullivan, 1991) Judicial Philosophy Concurring in a decision allowing President Bush to halt suits by Americans against Iraq as the country rebuilds, Roberts called for deference to the executive and for a literal reading of the relevant statute. (Acree v. Republic of Iraq, 2004) In an article written as a law student, argued that the phrase "just compensation" in the Fifth Amendment, which limits the government in the taking of private property, should be "informed by changing norms of justice." This sounds like a nod to liberal constitutional theory, but Rogers' alternative interpretation was more protective of property interests than Supreme Court law at the time. References * Department of Justice Biography Affiliations * Republican Party External links * The Supreme Court Shortlist - Slate magazine, Friday, July 1, 2005 Edit this page | Discuss this page | Page history | What links here | Related changes Main Page | About dKosopedia | Recent changes Go Search This page has been accessed 319 times. This page was last modified 03:08, 6 Jul 2005. All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Main Page Recent changes Random page Current events ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edit this page Discuss this page Page history What links here Related changes ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Special pages Bug reports ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Daily Kos ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:24:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: outagraph Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed outagraph n. A photograph in which the subject, what the photograph is "of," has been cut out. [Surrealist technique invented by Ted Joans.] INTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEOLOGISMS research | reference | ongoing collection http://www.neologisms.us "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:32:24 +0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: Poet / Journalist / Rights Activist Held by Police in Oman; Female Politician Jailed for Criticism of Government. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OMAN: HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST HELD BY POLICE http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=3DSecurity&loid=3D8.0.187249254= &pa r=3D0 Muscat, 14 July (AKI) - A leading human rights activist in Oman, who worked=20 to publicise the recent trial of 31 Islamists, is being held for=20 questioning, one of his associates said. Abdullah Al-Ryami is said to have=20 been summoned by police on Tuesday and has not been seen since. Diplomats=20 say they are checking the reports. Al-Ryami was very active in drawing=20 attention to the trial of the Islamists, who were convicted of plotting to=20 overthrow the Omani government, but later pardoned and freed by the=20 country's leader Qaboos bin Said al-Said. The Islamists were jailed in May for between one and 20 years by Oman's=20 state security court for plotting to "overthrow the regime by force of arms=20 and replace it with a clerical regime, by setting up a banned underground=20 organisation." They were also found guilty of holding recruitment sessions,=20 carrying out military training and arming members with illegally obtained=20 weapons." Following the conviction hundreds of people marched through the Omani=20 capital Muscat calling for the Islamists to be acquitted. Their lawyers=20 insisted they were innocent, and had simply been trying to promote the=20 teachings of the Ibadi sect of Islam, which the majority of Omanis follow. Taiba Al Ma'wali sentenced to jail #239231 - 07/13/05 08:53 PM http://www.omanforum.com/threads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/239231/an/0/p age/0#239231 A huge precedent was set in Oman today. Taiba Al Ma'wali, one of the first=20 female members of Majlis Al Shura, was sentenced to a year and half in jail=20 for comments she made regarding the arrests and trials earlier this year. I am surprised that no one ever mentioned her trial here on OmanForum before=20 nor the verdict which was announced today. Apparently the news has already=20 been carried in some news channels. Re: Taiba Al Ma'wali sentenced to jail #239241 - 07/13/05 09:45 PM I have no details beyond what was written on Sablat Al Arab=20 (www.omania.net/avb/showthread.php?t=3D180557&page=3D1&pp=3D50 for = details in=20 Arabic). By the way the guy who wrote all the details on the case, Abdullah=20 Al Riyami, Oman's only human rights activist, has himself been taken in by=20 the police since yesterday. He was called in to come answer some questions=20 and hasn't left since. From what I read on that website she's accused of the following: Criticising the public prosecutor's statement by saying that they are slaves=20 to authority. Criticising the statement made by H.E. Ali Majid Al Mamari, head of the=20 royal office, which he made regarding the arrests. This is supposedly=20 something she wrote online. Criticising the head of the police in a personal telephone conversations. Criticising Majlis Al Shura's statement regarding the trial of detainees. Criticising HH Sayid Ass'ad bin Tariq, also in a non-official telephone=20 conversation. Criticising Najiah Al Ma'wali, deputy head of the equistrian society, in the=20 same telephone conversation as above. Btw, Sayyid Ass'ad later made a statement indicating that he has not pressed=20 charges against her nor does he hold anything she says against him. Taiba was an observer in the trial of the 31 detainees last May. Apparently=20 after the trial she sent an SMS to someone saying that the trial wasn't=20 fair. This was recorded against her and presented in the trial. Be careful what you write in SMS, guys.. everything's recorded. Poet and journalist Abdallah Al-Ryami jailed for criticising human rights=20 violations http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=3D14406 15 Jul 05 | Reporters Without Borders today condemned the arrest on 12 July=20 of poet and journalist Abdallah Al-Ryami for criticising human rights=20 violations in Oman, and deplored the strict censorship of writers and=20 journalists which the Omani authorities have been enforcing for the past few=20 months. "We call on the sultanate's government to free Al-Ryami at once and to=20 respect the 1995 Alma-Ata declaration in which it undertook to adopt laws=20 guaranteeing the rights to freedom of expression and opinion, access to=20 information and press freedom," the organisation said. Amendment of the press laws, which allow the authorities to exercise=20 systematic control of all means of expression, is also necessary, Reporters=20 Without Borders said. Al Ryami had been harassed by the authorities ever since he was invited to=20 take part in a televised debate about democratic reforms in July 2004, and=20 voiced doubt about the government's readiness to undertake real democratic=20 reforms. The authorities immediately gave verbal instructions to newspaper=20 editors and the state radio and TV broadcaster's executives forbidding them=20 to interview Al Ryami or even mention his name or his works. A published poet and playwright, Al-Ryami often used to take part in arts=20 and culture programmes on Omani television. Since he spoke out on Al-Alam,=20 his TV programmes had been withdrawn but he continued to write for various=20 websites such as www.kikah.com, an independent online magazine dedicated to=20 arts and culture. Oman media ordered to blacklist writers http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=3D11922 24 Nov 04 | Reporters Without Borders lambasted the Sultanate of Oman for=20 banning the media from giving space or airtime to two writers and=20 intellectuals for the past five months and called for them to be allowed to=20 be interviewed freely again. The blacklisting appears to be linked to comments the two made on the=20 Iranian channel Al-Alam casting doubt on government commitment to political=20 reform. Writer Mohammed Al-Harthi has had his weekly column banned from the official=20 daily Oman. Poet Abdullah Al-Ryami, has seen his once frequent appearances=20 on state-run national television cancelled one after the other. Both Al-Harthi and Al-Ryami believe that the Oman authorities probably gave=20 verbal instructions to editors of newspapers and directors of programmes on=20 public radio and television forbidding them to interview the two=20 intellectuals or even to mention their names or their work. Contacted by Reporters Without Borders, the information ministry refused to=20 explain the measure, limiting itself to citing various minor amendments made=20 to the press law in August 2004. The worldwide press freedom organisation condemned the attitude of the Oman=20 authorities in ruling what subjects are "lawful" and "unlawful" and which=20 guests can or cannot be invited on to the airwaves. In a democratic country,=20 journalists make this choice. The organisation urged Oman to allow the national media the freedom to=20 interview the two to prove that political modernisation is under way in the=20 Sultanate. Political opening should include respect for a free and=20 independent press and reform of the still very harsh press law, it said. Reporters Without Borders urged the Sultanate of Oman, a UNESCO member since=20 10 February 1972, to respect the 1995 Alma-Ata declaration, in which it=20 undertook to pass legislation "establishing freedom of expression and=20 opinion, access to information and press freedom" and to "end monopolies and=20 all forms of discrimination in radio broadcasting". The two intellectuals told Reporters Without Borders by phone that the press=20 code was "obsolete" and condemned the authorities' systematic control of all=20 means of expression. Al-Harthi said the Oman press law, which has not been reformed since 1984,=20 gave the information ministry the power to try and jail journalists without=20 having to explain itself to anyone. Al-Ryami said the authorities "attached=20 no importance to press freedom and continued to crackdown on any opinions=20 differing from the government's. Every means of expression including the Internet were subjected to censorship. TV channel Al-Alam put out two programmes in July 2004 on the subject of democratic reform in the Sultanate. Several members of the State Council (Majlis Al-Dawla) and the Consultative Assembly (Majlis Al-Shura) due to take part in the first programme on 7 July, pulled out at the last moment. During the programme, Mohammed Al-Harthi and Abdullah Al-Ryami both=20 expressed their doubts about the government's willingness to start genuine=20 democratic reform. A week later, Oman television refused to let its studios to Al-Alam and most=20 of the leading Oman figures due to take part again pulled out. The second=20 programme was finally broadcast from Beirut and Al-Ryami and Al-Harthi=20 contributed by telephone. Al-Harthi had a weekly cultural column entitled Charafat (Platforms) in the=20 daily Oman. He has published several books and collections of poems, some of=20 which are banned in Oman. Al Ryami is a theatre director and has published literary works and=20 collections of poems. His works used to be broadcasted on Oman radio and television. Since making his comments on Al-Alam, his poems and theatre=20 works have been taken off the programme schedule in Oman radio, television=20 and daily newspapers. Lately presenters who invited him to take part in=20 special programmes linked to Ramadam, were reminded by their management that=20 they could not work with him. The writer continues to post his views on=20 various Internet sites such as www.kikah.com, an independent cultural=20 review. A press under government control The 1984 press law lays down fines of up to 5,000 US dollars and prison=20 sentences of up to two years. A commission chaired by the ministry of=20 information and which all decisions have to be approved by the minister, is=20 responsible for authorising any new publications. In August 2004 it=20 announced that the capital legally required to launch a publication would be=20 raised to a minimum of half a million dollars, making it harder to create a=20 new title. Oman: Critics Subjected to Injustices They Had Exposed 18 Jul 2005 21:10:12 GMT http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/42fe0bc4b6b68531427bc4e379f a8b4a.htm http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/07/18/oman11343.htm One Government Critic Detained Incommunicado, Another Remains Jailed (New York, July 18, 2005) --The incommunicado detention of a prominent=20 playwright and human rights activist in Oman exposes the country's weak=20 legal protections and due process provisions, Human Rights Watch said today.=20 'Abdullah Ryami has not spoken with family or legal counsel since presenting=20 himself for interrogation at the Special Section of the Omani Royal Police=20 Headquarters in the capital Muscat on July 12. (New York, July 18, 2005) --The incommunicado detention of a prominent playwright and human rights activist in Oman exposes the country's weak legal protections and due=20 process provisions, Human Rights Watch said today. 'Abdullah Ryami has not=20 spoken with family or legal counsel since presenting himself for=20 interrogation at the Special Section of the Omani Royal Police Headquarters=20 in the capital Muscat on July 12. The Omani activist's family said that they have not heard from him and have=20 been unable to obtain information about his condition and his whereabouts=20 from the police. The police have denied 'Abdullah Ryami's family the=20 opportunity to hire a lawyer for him. "The Omani authorities should immediately inform 'Abdullah Ryami's family of=20 his whereabouts," said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. "They must release him or charge him with a crime, and must=20 respect his rights to an attorney and for his family members to visit him." Ryami had vocally criticized the Omani government's arrests, starting in December, and the eventual trial of 31 Omanis of the 'Ibadi faith on charges=20 of plotting a coup. At the time, Ryami told Gulf News that "[t]here is no=20 information about the detainees, and even their family members are unaware=20 of their whereabouts." The State Security Court convicted the men on May 2=20 and sentenced them to prison terms of between one and twenty years on=20 charges that ranged from weapons possession to leading a conspiracy to=20 overthrow the government. In addition, Ryami publicized what he described as excessive use of force by=20 the Omani police against what witnesses described to Human Rights Watch as a=20 peaceful demonstration protesting the conviction of the 31 'Ibadis. Ryami=20 described how the police trapped demonstrators inside the Sa'id Ibn Taimur=20 Mosque in Muscat and beat those who tried to escape with batons. Mr. Ryami=20 continuously monitored the trial of 24 of the demonstrators before the State=20 Security Court. In May and June, Ryami also publicized the government's prosecution of=20 former parliamentarian and journalist, Tayba Ma'wali, whom the government=20 charged with insulting public officials via telephone and internet. Omani=20 officials demanded that Ryami present himself for interrogation two days before the court issued its verdict against Ma'wali on July 13. Sultan Qaboos of Oman on June 9 pardoned the convicted plotters and=20 amnestied the 24 demonstrators before a verdict was reached in their trial.=20 However, the court sentenced Ma'wali to a year and a half in prison for=20 violating article 61 of the Omani Press Law, among other charges. The=20 provision states that "[e]very person who sends a message via a means of communication that is contrary to the governing system and public morals or=20 that is knowingly untrue ... shall be punished by a prison sentence of not=20 more than one year and a fine of not more than 1,000 [Omani] Riyal..." Ma'wali=20 is currently imprisoned. While under investigation, she refused to sign an=20 acknowledgement of her alleged misdeed in exchange for the promise of a=20 pardon. "Taybah Ma'wali and 'Abdullah Ryami are on the frontlines of defending the=20 freedom of assembly and expression as well as the right to a fair trial in=20 Oman," said Whitson. "It is a bitter irony that the Omani authorities should=20 seek to silence them by using the same outmoded laws, unlawful detentions=20 and closed trials that Ma'wali and Ryami have tried to expose." Omani government officials already had informally barred Ryami and Mohamed=20 Harthi, a columnist and poet, from writing for newspapers or producing plays=20 for television following their critique of the Omani democratic reform=20 process during an interview in July 2004 with the Iranian TV station,=20 al-'Alam. In the interview, they criticized Oman's outmoded press law, among=20 other things. The Omani penal code allows broadly and vaguely defined charges against=20 national security to be prosecuted before the State Security Court, where=20 defendants enjoy fewer due process rights, such as sufficient time to review=20 the evidence against them, and whose proceedings are frequently closed to=20 the public. URGENT ACTION http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE200042005 Oman: Fear of torture or ill-treatment/ Possible prisoners of conscience PUBLIC AI Index: MDE 20/004/2005 15 July 2005 UA 187/05 Fear of torture or ill-treatment/ Possible prisoners of conscience OMAN Abdullah Al Riyami (m), aged 40, writer Taiba al Mawali (f), former member of parliament Writer Abdullah Al Riyami and former member of parliament Taiba al Mawali=20 have both been detained in the capital Muscat. Abdullah Al Riyami may be held incommunicado and is at risk of torture or ill-treatment. Amnesty=20 International believes that they may both be prisoners of conscience, held solely for the non-violent expression of their beliefs. According to reports, the section of the police headquarters responsible for internal security contacted Abdullah Al Riyami on 11 July, summoning him to=20 the headquarters the following day. On 12 July, a police officer reportedly escorted him from the police headquarters back to his home, where he left=20 his mobile phone. He has not been seen since. It is not known why he was=20 summoned to the police station, but it is believed that it may be connected to his criticism of the government. In 2004, he was reportedly banned from=20 publishing any poems or articles. This followed his criticism of the government during=20 an appearance on Iranian television station, Al-Alam. Taiba al Mawali was reportedly arrested at the beginning of June and later sentenced to 18 months' imprisonment by a Lower Court in Muscat on 13 July=20 in connection with her criticisms of the government. Amnesty International has=20 no information about where she is detained. She reportedly acted as an observer=20 at the trial in May 2005 of 31 prisoners of conscience arrested in early 2005=20 (see UA 26/05, MDE 20/002/2005, 28 January 2005, and follow-up). The men were sentenced to prison terms ranging between seven and 20 years but were=20 pardoned by the Sultan of Oman in June and have since been released. BACKGROUND INFORMATION Mass arrests and incommunicado detention of political opponents of the government of Oman has often led to allegations of torture and=20 ill-treatment. Torture and ill-treatment may be used during interrogation in order to=20 obtain information about political suspects or for use as evidence in court to=20 obtain convictions following unfair trials AI Index: MDE 20/004/2005 15 July 2005 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:03:20 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: DB's opinions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable no -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Skinner To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 1:45 AM Subject: Re: DB's opinions In retrospect, I now realize that it may have been little more than = hearty back-slapping between old friends. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:32:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Call for Submissions and Nominations for Prose Poem Anthologies/Textbooks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Call for Submissions and Nominations In 2006, Firewheel Editions will publish An Introduction to the Prose Poem = [tentative title], a short anthology of prose poems with a pedagogical=20 framework. The book is designed for use in the creative writing or=20 freshman/sophomore lit classroom and is organized around common strategies = of composition: the epistolary poem, the abecedarian poem, the list poem,=20 rants, fables, parables, the object poem, the sound poem, etc. The book=20 will also include a section of prose poems that are not easy to classify=20 under any particular common strategy.=20 A version of the book will be published simultaneously as 100 Contemporary = Prose Poems by Shanghai Foreign Language Education Press. Some poems will a= ppear in=20 both books, but each book will have poems that do not appear in the other. = The Shanghai book will serve as an introduction to the international prose = poem tradition, but it is also designed to help non-native speakers study=20 contemporary literature in English. Firewheel Editions seeks submissions and nominations of prose poems for=20 both books. Please follow these guidelines: *Send 1-5 prose poems. It is unlikely that more than one poem from any=20 poet will be chosen for either individual volume. *If a poem recognizably employs any of the above compositional strategies=20 (or other common strategies), please identify/describe the strategy and=20 accompany the poem with a brief (up to 150 words) author's statement about = the utility of that strategy, the process used, the decision to follow=20 that strategy, the evolution of the poem, or any other comments that might = be useful to students. * Send the poems in HARD COPY ONLY (no electronic submissions) to=20 Firewheel Editions, Box 7, Western Connecticut State University, 181 White = St., Danbury, CT 06810. Submissions must be received no later than=20 September 1, 2005. Please be sure to include an SASE or email address for=20 response. If your work is selected, Firewheel Editions will request an=20 electronic copy in September. Poems published previously in journals and=20 magazines are acceptable, if the author holds the right to reprint (please = identify place of original publication so that we may acknowledge). Poems=20 that have appeared in books must be accompanied by a letter from the book=20 publisher granting Firewheel Editions the right to reprint the poem in=20 either or both of the two books with no permission fee. Both books will appear in mid-late 2006. Contributors will receive a copy=20 of each book in which their work appears. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:49:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: da lyricists lounge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>INFO: da lyricists lounge ========================= This show will feature underground spoken word artists airing every other Tuesday, on www.live365.com/stations/mocha_sistah so check us out. Tuesday July 26th's feature is Tennessee's soul singer Tim Dillinger, why not join us for the lyrical vibes? We air at 9 pm Central Standard Time. Thanks for the support, Mocha Sistah http://www.mochasistahonline.com __\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation."\ --patrick o'neil\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/} ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:40:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Blackbox summer gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, The Blackbox summer gallery is now available for viewing. Several new contributors. I'm still willing to add essays if any should arrive within the next week. Otherwise the submission period is now closed. Per usual, go to WilliamJamesAustin.com and follow the Blackbox link. Then take a stroll (scroll) through the galleries until you reach the latest set of collisions. As always, thanks to all to submit and support the project. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNobel.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:45:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: to engage... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Our intention is to disrupt the empire, to incapacitate it, to put pressure on the cracks, to make it hard to carry out its bloody functioning against the people of the world, to join the world struggle, to attack from the inside. Our intention is to engage the enemy, to wear away at him, to isolate him, to expose every weakness, to pounce, to reveal his vulnerability. Our intention is to encourage the people, to provoke leaps in confidence and consciousness, to stir the imagination, to popularize power, to agitate, to organize, to join in every possible way the people's day to day struggles." -- w.u. prairie fire http://www.sunrisedancer.com/radicalreader/library/waythewindblew/waythewindblewpre.asp http://ottawa.indymedia.ca/en/2005/05/951.shtml http://www1.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/316518.html ___ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation."\ --patrick o'neil\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 04:04:16 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: New interview on The Argotist Online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is an interview with poet Philip Nikolayev at The Argotist Online http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Nikolayev%20interview.htm Jeff Side -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:43:03 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: [job] Creative Writing Instructor + Adjunct Professor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Location: Ewing, NJ The English Department at The College of New Jersey seeks to fill: - one half-time position - one adjunct position to teach in the creative writing program. The positions are one-year appointments. Applicants should send a c.v., letter of application, and a sample syllabus for an introductory creative writing class in both prose and poetry, by August 5, 2005 to: Professor Jo Carney, Chair English Department The College of New Jersey P.O. Box 7718 Ewing, NJ 08628-0718 mailto:carney@tcnj.edu fax: 609.637.5112 EOE/AA www.tcnj.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:14:21 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: [job] Creative Writing Program Assistant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Location: Stanford, CA The Program Assistant is a full-time position for an 11-month fixed term (8/16/05 to 7/15/06, renewable), reporting to the Program Administrator and serving the Director, faculty, and students of the Stanford Creative Writing Program, generally considered the top writing program in the country. The program is part of the English Department and consists of 20 Stegner graduate fellows, 7 lecturers, and 7 English faculty along with more than 50 undergraduate students pursuing a Creative Writing minor or an English major with a creative writing emphasis. The program has an active schedule of literary events, including presentations by prominent visiting authors and regular readings by program faculty, Stegner fellows, and students. The program also sponsors special visiting professorships in fiction and poetry on an annual basis. Information, office services, and events are the principal areas of focus for the Program Assistant. The Assistant serves as a receptionist, providing telephone, electronic, and in-person information to the public and the university community as well as responding to application requests (about 3,500 annually) for the Stegner fellowships. The Assistant is responsible for the basic functionality of the program office (e.g., mail, deliveries, copying, filing, supplies, equipment, facilities, computer support); for routine correspondence; and for payments using petty cash, the purchasing card, and the Oracle requisition system. The Assistant handles textbook orders, teaching evaluations, and other support for courses and tutorials, including maintaining up-to-date information on schedules, locations, instructors, and requirements for the creative writing emphasis and the minor. The Assistant manages the selection process for undergraduate writing prizes and assists in the Stegner admissions process. Following direction from the Program Administrator, the Assistant implements event plans, to include reserving venues, arranging catering, issuing invitations, handling publicity, ordering specialized services, and performing any other tasks, as necessary. Qualifications: Well-developed skills in dealing with the public and in responding to the wide-ranging needs of the program's constituency are of central importance. Must be able to communicate effectively and in many formats with students, faculty, and administrators. Must be tactful, good-humored, even-tempered and flexible; must be able to work cooperatively with others as well as independently without close supervision; must be able to exercise sound judgment and to handle sensitive information with discretion. Requires excellent organizational skills and ability to work on multiple tasks efficiently and under pressure. Proficiency in email communication a necessity as well as experience with software for word-processing and spreadsheets and for creating and managing Web sites and databases. Experience with Stanford systems a plus. Some exposure to an office environment and its related procedures and equipment is required. College education preferred, a B.A. desired. Strong skills in writing, proofing, and attention to detail are needed along with an interest in the activities of the literary community. Requires a 40-hour work week and the flexibility to work some evenings, as required by event schedules. Apply online @ http://tinyurl.com/b9g5j http://stanford.edu/dept/english/cw/ http://jobs.stanford.edu/openings/jobsearch.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 06:36:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: dbcinema v0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dbcinema v0.2: http://vispo.com/dbcinema ja ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:54 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Charles Bernstein in Philly Inquirer Comments: To: Lucifer Poetics , Brit Po MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A curious, if admiring, view of Charles Bernstein's opera, Shadowtime, appears in today's Philadelphia Inquirer. http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/entertainment/12183884.htm The opera will be performed again tonight in Lincoln Center -- see Charles' EPC site for details. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:59:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Baraban Subject: Curiouser and curiouser... Comments: To: rsillima@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <20050721171354.28580.qmail@web51110.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've been grateful for the journalism Ron Silliman has been finding and transmitting to us lately, as he has so often in the past...the two pieces on the Olson documentary that's being developed (one article had truly illuminating quotes from Gloucester Olsonites), the piece on Snyder, and now the Philadelphia Inquirer on _Shadowtime_ (being performed tonight AND FRIDAY, if I'm reading my calendar correctly). But I'm sure more than just two of us (hi, Mary Jo!) would like to know WHAT Ron finds askew when he calls an article "curious"...as he did in introducing both the Snyder and the Bernstein clippings. No big deal, just curious. :) --- Ron Silliman wrote: > A curious, if admiring, view of Charles Bernstein's > opera, > Shadowtime, appears in today's Philadelphia > Inquirer. > > http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/entertainment/12183884.htm > > The opera will be performed again tonight in Lincoln > Center -- see > Charles' EPC site for details. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:36:16 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: Curiouser and curiouser... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes and thank you ! *********************** I've been grateful for the journalism Ron Silliman has been finding and transmitting to us lately, as he has so often in the past...the two pieces on the Olson documentary that's being developed (one article had truly illuminating quotes from Gloucester Olsonites), the piece on Snyder, and now the Philadelphia Inquirer on _Shadowtime_ (being performed tonight AND FRIDAY, if I'm reading my calendar correctly). But I'm sure more than just two of us (hi, Mary Jo!) would like to know WHAT Ron finds askew when he calls an article "curious"...as he did in introducing both the Snyder and the Bernstein clippings. No big deal, just curious. :) *********** Mary Jo Malo _http://hometown.aol.com/ophiuchus/poetry.html_ (http://hometown.aol.com/ophiuchus/poetry.html) _http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/genesis/_ (http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/genesis/) "Poor gentle flesh - there is no answer" - Kerouac ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:50:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Curiouser and curiouser... In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "Curious" is the way the Sheriff raises his eyebrow when passing by a brothel - half wanting to be on the inside, and half disapproving. Some day there will be a major review of the entire work and life of Ron Silliman in the New York Times Book Review or - still unlikely yet - the New York Review of Books - and we can all raise our eyebrows and say, "curious!" Well, Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:35:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: joe maneri solo gig- correction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JOE MANERI In a rare solo appearance At the Stone (e. 2nd Street & Ave. C) Saturday, July 30th, 2005 @ 8 P.M. $10 One set only Joe will have as his guest poet steve dalachinsky For info call 1212-925-5256 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:42:19 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: Guillermo Gómez-Peña at Intersection for the Arts, San Francisco Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Routledge and La Pocha Nostra invite you to a solo performance and book launch: Guillermo Gómez-Peña Saturday July 30th, 7:30 pm. at Intersection for the Artrs 446 Valencia (btwn 15/16), Mission District San Francisco, CA Special guests include Rhodessa Jones and Routledge London editor Talia Rodgers. Cost: $5-15 sliding scale Tix & Info: (415) 626-3311, or visit www.theintersection.org “Ethno-Techno: Writings on performance, activism and pedagogy,” a new book by Guillermo Gómez-Peña, is forthcoming from Routledge, 2005. The performance of “extreme identity” is familiar to us all through the medium of television (just switch on Jerry Springer). So where does this leave the critical practice of artists who aim to make tactical, performative interventions into our notions of race, culture and sexuality? Guillermo Gómez-Peña has spent many years developing his unique style of performance-activism, theatricalizations of postcolonial theory. In Ethno-Techno: Writings on performance, activism and pedagogy he pushes the boundaries still further, exploring what’s left for artists to do in a post-9/11 repressive culture of what he calls “the mainstream bizarre”. Extensive photos document his artistic experiments. The text not only explores and confronts his political and philosophical parameters, it offers an insight into one of the most daring, innovative and challenging performance artists of our age. Guillermo Gómez-Peña is a performance artist and writer, and artistic director of San Francisco-based company La Pocha Nostra. His pioneering work in performance, video, radio, installation, poetry, journalism and cultural theory explores cross cultural issues, immigration, the side effects of globalization, the politics of language, “extreme culture” and the digital divide. His previous books include Warrior for Gringostroika (1993), The New World Border (1996) and Dangerous Border Crossers (2000). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:59:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Guillermo G=?ISO-8859-1?B?8w==?=mez-Pe=?ISO-8859-1?B?8Q==?=a at Intersection for the Arts, San Francisco In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Wow--wish I cd go to SF that day instead of heading to Wellfleet--is Routledge sending you there? Miss you. Want to tell you abt the Olson conf some time. xoxo Ruth check out my poem for dear Creeley at www.wanderinghermit.com On 7/21/05 5:42 PM, "Tim Peterson" wrote: > Routledge and La Pocha Nostra invite you to a solo performance and book > launch: >=20 > Guillermo G=C3=B3mez-Pe=C3=B1a > Saturday July 30th, 7:30 pm. > at Intersection for the Artrs > 446 Valencia (btwn 15/16), Mission District > San Francisco, CA >=20 > Special guests include Rhodessa Jones and Routledge London editor Talia > Rodgers. >=20 > Cost: $5-15 sliding scale > Tix & Info: (415) 626-3311, or visit www.theintersection.org >=20 > =E2=80=9EEthno-Techno: Writings on performance, activism and pedagogy,=E2=80=B0 a new= book > by Guillermo G=C3=B3mez-Pe=C3=B1a, is forthcoming from Routledge, 2005. >=20 > The performance of =E2=80=9Eextreme identity=E2=80=B0 is familiar to us all through t= he > medium of television (just switch on Jerry Springer). So where does this > leave the critical practice of artists who aim to make tactical, > performative interventions into our notions of race, culture and sexualit= y? >=20 > Guillermo G=C3=B3mez-Pe=C3=B1a has spent many years developing his unique style o= f > performance-activism, theatricalizations of postcolonial theory. In > Ethno-Techno: Writings on performance, activism and pedagogy he pushes th= e > boundaries still further, exploring what=E2=80=9As left for artists to do in a > post-9/11 repressive culture of what he calls =E2=80=9Ethe mainstream bizarre=E2= =80=B0. >=20 > Extensive photos document his artistic experiments. The text not only > explores and confronts his political and philosophical parameters, it off= ers > an insight into one of the most daring, innovative and challenging > performance artists of our age. >=20 > Guillermo G=C3=B3mez-Pe=C3=B1a is a performance artist and writer, and artistic > director of San Francisco-based company La Pocha Nostra. His pioneering w= ork > in performance, video, radio, installation, poetry, journalism and cultur= al > theory explores cross cultural issues, immigration, the side effects of > globalization, the politics of language, =E2=80=9Eextreme culture=E2=80=B0 and the di= gital > divide. His previous books include Warrior for Gringostroika (1993), The = New > World Border (1996) and Dangerous Border Crossers (2000). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:44:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Guillermo =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=F3mez=2DPe=F1a?= at Intersection for the Arts, San Francisco In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable better yet, i wish we cd transport guillermo and=20 myself and tim et al to wellfleet for this event! fun fun fun! >Wow--wish I cd go to SF that day instead of heading to Wellfleet--is >Routledge sending you there? Miss you. Want to tell you abt the Olson conf >some time. >xoxo >Ruth >check out my poem for dear Creeley at www.wanderinghermit.com > > >On 7/21/05 5:42 PM, "Tim Peterson" wrote: > >> Routledge and La Pocha Nostra invite you to a solo performance and book >> launch: >> >> Guillermo G=F3mez-Pe=F1a >> Saturday July 30th, 7:30 pm. >> at Intersection for the Artrs >> 446 Valencia (btwn 15/16), Mission District >> San Francisco, CA >> >> Special guests include Rhodessa Jones and Routledge London editor Talia >> Rodgers. >> >> Cost: $5-15 sliding scale >> Tix & Info: (415) 626-3311, or visit www.theintersection.org >> >> =93Ethno-Techno: Writings on performance, activism and pedagogy,=94 a= new book >> by Guillermo G=F3mez-Pe=F1a, is forthcoming from Routledge, 2005. >> >> The performance of =93extreme identity=94 is familiar to us all through = the >> medium of television (just switch on Jerry Springer). So where does this >> leave the critical practice of artists who aim to make tactical, >> performative interventions into our notions of race, culture and sexuali= ty? >> >> Guillermo G=F3mez-Pe=F1a has spent many years developing his unique= style of >> performance-activism, theatricalizations of postcolonial theory. In >> Ethno-Techno: Writings on performance, activism and pedagogy he pushes t= he >> boundaries still further, exploring what=92s left for artists to do in a >> post-9/11 repressive culture of what he calls =93the mainstream bizarre= =94. >> >> Extensive photos document his artistic experiments. The text not only >> explores and confronts his political and philosophical parameters, it of= fers >> an insight into one of the most daring, innovative and challenging >> performance artists of our age. >> >> Guillermo G=F3mez-Pe=F1a is a performance artist and writer, and artisti= c >> director of San Francisco-based company La Pocha Nostra. His pioneering = work >> in performance, video, radio, installation, poetry, journalism and cultu= ral >> theory explores cross cultural issues, immigration, the side effects of >> globalization, the politics of language, =93extreme culture=94 and the d= igital >> divide. His previous books include Warrior for Gringostroika (1993), The= New >> World Border (1996) and Dangerous Border Crossers (2000). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 08:40:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: Ak-Uh's disappointment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" More on the mystery of Ak-Uh, the Crocodile. http://ululate.blogspot.com/2005_07_01_ululate_archive.html#112203583815400261 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 09:54:42 -0400 Reply-To: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Philip Nikolayev interviewed by Argotist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Philip Nikolayev interviewed by Jack Alun on the Argotist website: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Nikolayev%20interview.htm The Font may appear too small in some Browsers, in which case try View > Text Size > Larger Best, Philip ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds. FULCRUM: AN ANNUAL OF POETRY AND AESTHETICS 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA phone 617-864-7874 e-mail editor@fulcrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 09:56:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Ak-Uh's disappointment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here I am in Turkey at the moment wondering if I am for real, maybe I should send a photo of myself to the web. Kent, see what thou hast wrought. Harry (Nudel)m, years ago I thought you were not real. Nada, you are definitely real. Ciao, Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 09:20:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Michael Pierce Subject: from effing press: LYRIC POETRY AFTER AUSCHWITZ by Kent Johnson In-Reply-To: <200507220411.j6M4B2Ae025875@smtpout.mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [for immediate release and dispersal wherever unsafe literature is read] I'm happy to announce the latest effing press publication - LYRIC POETRY AFTER AUSCHWITZ: Eleven Submissions to the War, by Kent Johnson. effing press, 2005. 7x8 44 pages w/ code orange end papers $7.00 see the cover and place an order at http://www.effingpress.com/books/aus.html HAVE ONE SENT TO YOUR FAVORITE NEO-CON! This handsome book by one of America's most notorious thorn-in-your-side bards collects 11 poignant pieces of prose and poetry that dare to confront the horror and absurdity of (the current) war and offend those who shut their eyes to it. While most of America and its poets sleep Johnson continues to lob his dirty word-bombs into the crowd and the indictments are clear and there are no heros. What some others have said of this work: I think "Lyric Poetry after Auschwitz" is by far the most relevant poem for/in/about this War. It is a poem for our time. --Ethan Paquin Like the Jews, if Kent Johnson didn't exist, someone would have to invent him. His mind leaks nomads... --Alan Sondheim This collection finds Johnson representing our fiendish blind spots, the nature of those far cries of human murderousness alongside the fragility of identity and dignity, wielding homeopathically this seemingly bottomless, merciless virulence, this miasma, in the hope of helping to replenish the means of our deliverance. --Lissa Wolsak Finally, a gringo poet ready to offend all takers, even while defending the likes of me. Many of these poems push you off the long chow line of mutual admiration, asking where you stand right now. Walk in at your own risk: Kent Johnson takes no prisoners. --Ammiel Alcalay _____ Review copies of this and other effing books are available upon request. Please send all queries to effingpress@mac.com. Scott Pierce effing press 703 W. 11th Street #2 Austin, TX 78701 http://www.effingpress.com http://osnapper.typepad.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:36:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: 'Red/Blue': Looking For The Reich Stink In A Sea Of Assholes Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA Comments: cc: flpoint@hotmail.com, ibid1@earthlink.net, moyercdmm@EARTHLINK.NET, CMJBalso@aol.com, alphavil@ix.netcom.com, harrysandy@kreative.net, Amzemel@aol.com, ac7460@wayne.edu, anastasios.kozaitis@verizon.net, Sondheim@panix.com, akhasawn@umich.edu, bentatar@yahoo.com, cfj@umd.umich.edu, drlevitt@pacbell.net, emlevitt@pacbell.net, fraganhome@earthlink.net, jgaugn@umd.umich.edu, leon@leonmilo.com, lorber@freepress.com, slbogin@juno.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press 'Red/Blue': Looking For The Reich Stink In A Sea Of Assholes: The Irony Of TV Being A Manifestation Of Reality Gets Political Spin In 'Red/Blue' Series Proposal: "We're looking for someone who can bring down the small plane of a political rival without triggering a federal investigation,..." By JOHN MANNUREYARD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:08:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Re: Ak-Uh's disappointment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i am also in turkey at the moment locked in a faerie chimney in capadocia i have lost all sense of what is real adeena Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >Here I am in Turkey at the moment wondering if I am for real, maybe I should send a photo of myself to the web. > >Kent, see what thou hast wrought. > >Harry (Nudel)m, years ago I thought you were not real. > >Nada, you are definitely real. > >Ciao, > >Murat > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:05:52 -0400 Reply-To: richardjeffreynewman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Everything is connected MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All- I've been away from this list for a bit. I have had a blog up for a while now, but I was kind of searching for how I wanted to focus it. I decided I would use it to fulfill an idea that I have had for a long time, which was to write something that would somehow integrate as much of what I was reading at any given time into a coherent something-or-other (not sure if I would call it an essay), because I have been haunted often enough by the connections that revealed themselves to me between things I was reading. Sometimes it was connections between different articles in a newspaper that appeared to be about very different things, sometimes a poem connected itself to another poem and so on. Anyway, I've committed myself to trying to post once a week-excluding next week when I will be on vacation-and the first post is up. The url is http://richardjeffreynewman.blogspot.com . I'd love to hear what you think. Richard ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 16:10:15 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve potter Subject: Wandering Hermit Review online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The website for The Wandering Hermit Review is now online at www.wanderinghermit.com, featuring preview poems from issue 1 by Paul Hunter, Ruth Lepson, John Olson, Charles Potts, Michael Rothenberg, Anthony Seidman, and Kelley J. White. Stop by and have a look! Steve Potter spotterama@hotmail.com editor@wanderinghermit.com www.wanderinghermit.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:29:37 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: Everything is connected . . . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard, Yes, and isn't that how we approach much of our communication? We spit out responses based on how we personally-individually-uniquely connect what we read-hear-feel. You're very brave and vulnerable. How I connect things in my mind has resulted in a few "huhs?" and "what the hell are you talking abouts?" If I were to blog, my focus would be to focus. Having a random or possibly ADHD brain poses a problem for me and others, but it never really stops me from writing posts like this :-) Having the ability to see almost every point of view and its resulting ambivalences does not, however, leave me to conclude that I'm capable of all of the crimes mentioned, only some of them, only the ones for which I'm predisposed. Congrats, Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:00:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Ak-Uh's disappointment In-Reply-To: <4720C74A.7D7733A3.001942C5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Here i am in Mpls MN i didn't think i was real until i saw bob dylan last week, then i thought i was real for a while, then i read his autobiog and now i'm not sure if i'm real again but although i'm not sure abt "me" i know something is real. At 9:56 AM -0400 7/22/05, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >Here I am in Turkey at the moment wondering if I am for real, maybe >I should send a photo of myself to the web. > >Kent, see what thou hast wrought. > >Harry (Nudel)m, years ago I thought you were not real. > >Nada, you are definitely real. > >Ciao, > >Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:58:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Ak-Uh's disappointment Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 i have not been here for a long time.=20 please stop sending me real e-mail messages. i have given up writing poetry so that must be enough. please stop saying things about reality. it will happen soon. i have given up writing poetry. last week when i met bill clinton he asked me to do him a favor. i regret getting on my hands and knees. please stop letting go of reality. it will happen. i regret to tell you that malcolm mclaren is no longer involved in the sex = pistols venture. please stop writing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Ak-Uh's disappointment Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:00:34 -0500 >=20 > Here i am in Mpls MN i didn't think i was real until i saw bob dylan > last week, then i thought i was real for a while, then i read his > autobiog and now i'm not sure if i'm real again but although i'm not > sure abt "me" i know something is real. >=20 > At 9:56 AM -0400 7/22/05, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > Here I am in Turkey at the moment wondering if I am for real, maybe > > I should send a photo of myself to the web. > > > > Kent, see what thou hast wrought. > > > > Harry (Nudel)m, years ago I thought you were not real. > > > > Nada, you are definitely real. > > > > Ciao, > > > > Murat www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae baltimorereads.blogspot.com zillionpoems.blogspot.com --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:02:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: Rod Smith’s new full length CD of poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rod Smith’s new full length CD of poetry titled Fear the Sky* is now available through www.narrowhouserecordings.com receive a discount if you order directly though our website (check/money order) credit card transactions are linked to www.CDBaby.com, our secure, international distributor Ron Silliman says "...at just under 71 minutes a full length recording with production values that would make an indie band weep with envy. Smith is the perfect poet for such a project, as he has the most active ear of any writer of his generation & he’s a great – if decidedly deadpan – reader of his own work. Listening to this recording feels like it takes 20 minutes & one is totally engrossed the entire time, as Smith demonstrates a range of affect far wider than I’ve heard from him before..." for wholesale information contact justin at caligulasirois@yahoo.com http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 00:28:37 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An essay by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino is now on The Argotist Online site: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Thomasino%20essay.htm -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 00:31:01 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: New essay on The Argotist Online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An essay by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino is on The Argotist Online at http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Thomasino%20essay.htm -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 16:53:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mona Baroudi Subject: Independent Press Spotlight at Intersection: FREEDOM VOICES PRESS & AK PRESS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ipsINDEPENDENT PRESS SPOTLIGHT FREEDOM VOICES PRESS & AK PRESS Presented on the 52nd Anniversary of the start of the Cuban Revolution, this evening features two grassroots presses for a dialogue on themes of work and revolution. Freedom Voices Press (est. 1989) publishes work that speaks from and to communities on the margins, on both a local and international scale, and features author Margot Pepper, who sheds light on working in Cuba with excerpts from her new memoir Through The Wall: A Year in Havana. AK Press (est. 1990) is a worker-run book publisher and distributor organized around anarchist principles, and features anarchist historian and curator of the Emma Goldman Papers Barry Pateman. They are joined by performers Samantha Chanse, Tina Huang, Anna Maria Luera and Erika Chong Shuch. Intersection's series focusing on local independent publishing houses presents writers, editors & publishers, and dramatic readings by Bay Area performers. The Independent Press Spotlight offers a unique opportunity to learn first-hand what drives the Bay Area's local independent publishing community and to meet some of the Bay Area's top writers and local performers. Tuesday July 26, 2005 at 7:30 PM Intersection for the Arts 446 Valencia (btwn 15/16) Mission District San Francisco $5 - $15 (your choice) sliding scale (415) 626-2787, www.theintersection.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 22:10:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** Advertise in August Boog City** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Boog City's August issue is going to press on Thurs. July 28, and our discount ad rate is here to stay. We are once again offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also applies to larger ads.) Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles, your band's new album, your label's new releases. Ads must be in by Wed. July 27 (and please reserve space ASAP). (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) Issue will be distributed on Fri. July 29. Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. thanks, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 12:29:32 +0900 Reply-To: Uh Ak Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Uh Ak Subject: Thanks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hello POETICSLIST.=20 I appreciate your kindness. Since I didnt get any reply for the first mail, I didnt expect to get so many opinions about my work. Somebody indicated that the translation problem.=20 I am poor at English and feel shy about that.=20 The translation of my works were done by my friend very slowly and barely, and another friend is hepling make mailings. I want to communicate with everybody who give great opinions, but that will make my friend get into so tedious works. I am planning to leave the preparatory course of BEIJING UNOVERSITY and learn English as hard as I can . Then I can have a good time with people in the poeticlist. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 06:02:31 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 21 Jul 2005 to 22 Jul 2005 (#2005-202) In-Reply-To: <200507230002.1dWbdl6y83Nl34c0@mx-stork.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nada Gordon writes: >(my misalignment of whose name BK Stefans didn't hesitate to mock) The return line on "Ak Uh" or "Uh Ak"'s initial email read as the following: Uh Ak If he was reversing first and last name, as is standard in Korean, he would signed it Hong Ak Uh. Signed, Big bad Bri... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:31:46 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Donald Wellman Subject: Shadowtime MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Last night, I attended Patrick Ferneyhough and Charles Bernstein’s Shadowtime at the Rose Theater. I feared the reviews would not be good and they were not, that in the New York Times of July 23 is hostile, even if that of Philadelphia Inquirer was “curious.” NYT Review: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/23/arts/music/23shad.html?pagewanted=all My review of Shadowtime is mixed. To me the production testified to one of the kernel truths of this age of America’s fatal self-immolation: overproduction, magnificent overproduction in glass, steel, and multi-story aluminum and crystal foyers. The venue: the Rose Theater in the Time Warner Building at Columbus Circle. These people will rebuild at the World Trade Center site. Still I always expected an operatic as well as a cinematic scale to the current avant-garde, a vision shard by those in the Dada circle or that of Jean Cocteau or even Blaise Cendrars who gave us a libretto for La Creation du Monde by Darius Milhaud. Ezra Pound wrote three operas. I have now had my suspicions of how spectacled might deride spectacle confirmed. My appreciation cannot detach itself from the very grandiosity and grandiloquence of the scale of the production values of Shadowtime. The staging and set design, Director, Frédéric Fisbach and set by Emmanuel Clolus, provided a spectacular range of sensory experiences. Ferneyhough’s music also had a supersaturated quality: oracular and specular, the 12 voices of the chorus in their various dramatic functions, usually robed in a workman-like blue, the turning bed or chair, pulled bye silent ropes, on which a collapsed figure of Walter Benjamin or one of his avatars, lies collapsed under the weight of history. A stone, in a final moment of commemoration, becomes a transcendent object. That for me brings up the crucial issue of vision. To what degree can the matter here be attributed in any sense to the historical Walter Benjamin? Would he allow fact to be subsumed by aura? To what degree is the production a display of the fantasies of the composer and author? The answer is highly mixed, unsatisfactory in some respects. The intelligence of the libretto by Charles Bernstein, with its at times insouciant irreverence, provides an element of refreshment over against what might be thought of as a sententious approach to the death of Walter Benjamin. To my ears Brian Ferneyhough’s music was a witty deployment of too many avant-garde clichés, sometimes brilliant in the fact of performance, but also too much exactly that, a score to be ridden with glee and showmanship and wit. The music flirted and bubbled with ethereal woodwind notes, dissonant and muzzy images that seemed to have very little to do with the trenchant realism of the author of the Arcades. “Shadows” suggests auras and ghosts as well as a child’s game of hand shadows on the wall. Folk material of this later sort inform aspects of the libretto, but I reject the notion that Benjamin sought to retrieve some form of substitute for the auras associated with religious medievalism, Jewish or Christian. For him the lack of the aura was a heal thy fact of modern technological society, a freedom. A reader familiar with Bernstein’s personal iconography will have noted the intelligence and deep resonance with which it was deployed here, freely, in its own right (rite), again leaving a puzzle as the relevance of the work to either Benjamin’s thought or life. The famous Marx brothers (Groucho, Karl, …) are here, bathed in a red glow, and catches from his childhood, mangled in a Wittgensteinian language-game provided the texts for some the choral moments in the production. For all my mixed muttering, I want to identify two musical high points, the pivotal piano/recitative identified as a shadow play, Opus contra naturam, and the epilog, a choral (assigned to the Angel of History) with raspy bass notes attaining a funereal and pensive somberness, providing in this instance a felt connection to the tragedy of Benjamin’s suicide. At moments like these, the collaboration between composer and poet reached it’s highest degree of concordance, as words and music seemed independently powerful, yet correspondingly reinforcing. Donald Wellman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:35:16 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Donald Wellman Subject: Shadowtime Plain text follows: Tonight it is Shen Wei Dance Arts at the New York State Theater. The setting promises to be luminous. Last night, the first stage of the Lincoln Center Festival 2005, I attended Patrick Ferneyhough and Charles Bernstein’s Shadowtime at the Rose Theater. I feared the reviews would not be good and they were not, that in the New York Times of July 23 is hostile, even if that of Philadelphia Inquirer was “curious.” NYT Review: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/23/arts/music/23shad.html?pagewanted=all My review of Shadowtime is mixed. To me the production testified to one of the kernel truths of this age of America’s fatal self-immolation: overproduction, magnificent overproduction in glass, steel, and multi-story aluminum and crystal foyers. The venue: the Rose Theater in the Time Warner Building at Columbus Circle. These people will rebuild at the World Trade Center site. Still I always expected an operatic as well as a cinematic scale to the current avant-garde, a vision shard by those in the Dada circle or that of Jean Cocteau or even Blaise Cendrars who gave us a libretto for La Creation du Monde by Darius Milhaud. Ezra Pound wrote three operas. I have now had my suspicions of how spectacled might deride spectacle confirmed. My appreciation cannot detach itself from the very grandiosity and grandiloquence of the scale of the production values of Shadowtime. The staging and set design, Director, Frédéric Fisbach and set by Emmanuel Clolus, provided a spectacular range of sensory experiences. Ferneyhough’s music also had a supersaturated quality: oracular and specular, the 12 voices of the chorus in their various dramatic functions, usually robed in a workman-like blue, the turning bed or chair, pulled bye silent ropes, on which a collapsed figure of Walter Benjamin or one of his avatars, lies collapsed under the weight of history. A stone, in a final moment of commemoration, becomes a transcendent object. That for me brings up the crucial issue of vision. To what degree can the matter here be attributed in any sense to the historical Walter Benjamin? Would he allow fact to be subsumed by aura? To what degree is the production a display of the fantasies of the composer and author? The answer is highly mixed, unsatisfactory in some respects. The intelligence of the libretto by Charles Bernstein, with its at times insouciant irreverence, provides an element of refreshment over against what might be thought of as a sententious approach to the death of Walter Benjamin. To my ears Brian Ferneyhough’s music was a witty deployment of too many avant-garde clichés, sometimes brilliant in the fact of performance, but also too much exactly that, a score to be ridden with glee and showmanship and wit. The music flirted and bubbled with ethereal woodwind notes, dissonant and muzzy images that seemed to have very little to do with the trenchant realism of the author of the Arcades. “Shadows” suggests auras and ghosts as well as a child’s game of hand shadows on the wall. Folk material of this later sort inform aspects of the libretto, but I reject the notion that Benjamin sought to retrieve some form of substitute for the auras associated with religious medievalism, Jewish or Christian. For him the lack of the aura was a heal thy fact of modern technological society, a freedom. A reader familiar with Bernstein’s personal iconography will have noted the intelligence and deep resonance with which it was deployed here, freely, in its own right (rite), again leaving a puzzle as the relevance of the work to either Benjamin’s thought or life. The famous Marx brothers (Groucho, Karl, …) are here, bathed in a red glow, and catches from his childhood, mangled in a Wittgensteinian language-game provided the texts for some the choral moments in the production. For all my mixed muttering, I want to identify two musical high points, the pivotal piano/recitative identified as a shadow play, Opus contra naturam, and the epilog, a choral (assigned to the Angel of History) with raspy bass notes attaining a funereal and pensive somberness, providing in this instance a felt connection to the tragedy of Benjamin’s suicide. At moments like these, the collaboration between composer and poet reached it’s highest degree of concordance, as words and music seemed independently powerful, yet correspondingly reinforcing. Donald Wellman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 08:45:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: { brad brace } Subject: The Global Islands Project In-Reply-To: <200507230402.j6N42FKm030893@ultra5.eskimo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Global Islands Project -- ongoing series of multi-media pdf-ebooks -- Island 1.0 is Ambergris Caye, Belize Island 2.0 is Koh Si Chang, Thailand Global Islands Project: Island 1.0 -> http://bbrace.net/islands/island1/island1.html or http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/islands/island1/island1.html -- over 800 images and hour-long audiotrack -- 69mb -- (acrobat 6) Island 2.0 -> http://bbrace.net/islands/island2/island2.html or http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/islands/island2/island2.html -- over 535 images and hour-long audiotrack -- 78mb -- (acrobat 6) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: One Shadow at a Time: today on :: fait accompli:: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ::fait accompli:: is http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com Friday, July 22 Containing Multitudes One Shadow at a Time: on Ferneyhough and Bernstein's *Shadowtime* Thursday, July 21 Shadows of *Shadowtime*: Bernstein's Benjamin Sunday July 17 Quotes and Comments on the NY Times interview with Charles Bernstein plus a new theoretical object: *Ideas* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 09:37:44 -0400 Reply-To: webmaster@newhampshirereview.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Webmaster, New Hampshire Review" Organization: The New Hampshire Review Subject: The New Hampshire Review, Issue No. 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is our great pleasure to announce the inaugural issue of The New Hampshire Review , featuring: =20 New poems by Cynthia Huntington, C. Dale Young, Dan Beachy-Quick, Timothy Liu, Peter Campion, Jon Davis, Jonathan Fink, Steve Mueske, Naomi Feigelson Chase, Philip Fried, John Pursley III, Ravi Shankar, David Biespiel, Lesle Lewis, Clay Matthews, Robert Phillips, and many more... =20 Reviews of Jack Gilbert=92s Refusing Heaven, Richard Siken=92s Crush, = Simon Armitage=92s Shout, Lydia Greenlaw=92s Minsk, A.R. Ammons=92s Bosh and Flapdoodle, and others... =20 Artwork by Layne Jackson and Eric Armusik. =20 Plus: easily accessible audio versions of more than half the poems in the issue! =20 Like PBS, The New Hampshire Review does not charge a fee or carry advertising. Rather, we have established a reader-supported Contributors Fund through which we hope to provide our each of our poets, reviewers, and visual artists with a small honorarium. If you like the work in this issue, please consider making a donation to the fund. All donations will go directly to our contributors at the end of the quarter.=20 =20 Lastly, we are now accepting submissions for our second issue, due out in October. Please see our submission guidelines for details. =20 =20 Virginia Heatter Editor-in-Chief =20 Seth D. Abramson Poetry Editor =20 The New Hampshire Review P.O. Box 322 Nashua, NH 03061-0322 www.newhampshirereview.com =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:31:34 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: announcing - poetics.ca #5 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Poetics.ca #5 (finally!) now on-line As an attempt to discuss the range of contemporary practice in modern poetry, we are pleased to announce the fifth issue of Poetics.ca (www.poetics.ca). The fifth issue features: -- Roy MacSkimming on Ottawa poet William Hawkins -- Plunderverse: A Cartographic Manifesto by Gregory Betts -- The Anonlinear Aesthetic by Adam Seelig -- Excerpts from a conversation between Nancy Holmes and Sharon Thesen -- The Trouble with Normal: Breathing Fire II, Pissing Ice and the State of Canadian Poetry by rob mclennan -- The Mimetic Music of Negation: The Imitation of Wallace Stevens in Robert Bringhurst's "Hachadura" by Stephen Brockwell Please visit Poetics.ca and send us your thoughts. Stephen Brockwell and rob mclennan, editors Anita Dolman, managing editor Paul Dechene, webdesigner & executive vp of foppery ========================= -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...10th coll'n - stone, book one (Palimpsest Press) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:32:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Trigilio Organization: http://www.starve.org Subject: CAP-L Archive? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all-- Does anyone know if there's an archive for the old CAP-L list? At one time, archives were at , but not anymore. Thanks-- Best, Tony ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:56:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Thanks In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Jul 22, 2005, at 10:29 PM, Uh Ak wrote: > Hello POETICSLIST. > I appreciate your kindness. > Since I didnt get any reply for the first mail, I didnt expect to get > so many opinions about my work. This list is severely deprived of international input, a lot of us have a deep interest in seeing this list become more international. > > Somebody indicated that the translation problem. the web has spawned an international form of english, if someone doesn't understand they can ask a question. > I am poor at English and feel shy about that. I am poor at English and I feel shy about that. > The translation of my works were done by my friend very slowly and > barely, and another friend is hepling make mailings. I found your works quite interesting, the pieces seemed very different from each other, as if they were translated by different people. > I want to communicate with everybody who give great opinions, but that > will make my friend get into so tedious works. Surely there must be online korean - english software to help you rough out translations yourself. it would be a good way to learn to play with english, and I do mean play. > I am planning to leave the preparatory course of BEIJING UNOVERSITY > and learn English as hard as I can . There are many kinds of english & the english you need to learn to communicate to the list is quite possibly a very different english than poetic english, the language of poems. > Then I can have a good time with > people in the poeticlist. there is also the WRYTING list that you can join & submit your poems, writings, improvisations & discussion. you would especially find it a fertile place to experiment with live interwriting, thanks for being more than shy ~mIEKAL > > 24/7 PROTOMEDIA BREEDING GROUND JOGLARS CROSSMEDIA BROADCAST (collaborative text & media) http://www.joglars.org SPIDERTANGLE International Network of VisPoets http://www.spidertangle.net XEXOXIAL EDITIONS Appropriate Scale Publishing since 1980 http://www.xexoxial.org INTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEOLOGISMS research | reference | ongoing collection http://www.neologisms.us Dreamtime Village Hypermedia Permaculture EcoVillage in Southwest Wisconsin http://www.dreamtimevillage.org "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:55:01 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: g'day Miekal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Miekal, hello, You wrote - >This list is severely deprived of international input, a lot of us have >a deep interest in seeing this list become more international. Oh well, I'll try to put in a bit more. I should make an effort. Greetings from Sydney, Pam Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 05:06:22 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Brit Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Will the real Christopher Middleton please stand up? Shadowtime: an opera on Walter Benjamin by Charles Bernstein & Brian Ferneyhough 400,000th visitors served – some lessons learned Looking back at a regional anthology 35 years later: 15 Young Poets of the SF Bay Area Harry Potter, Howard Pease & Freddy the Pig PIP goes local: Doug Messerli’s Southern California anthology Reading aloud 2 new CDs with Rod Smith & Robert Creeley – the value of the one-hour reading Editing 20th century American Poetry – How big is Big? Lee Herrick’s weblog on Asian American poetry & activism A survey of online poetry A renaissance in Lawrence, KS – Black Spring’s special issue An interview with Geof Huth on visual poetry (with the help of Crag Hill) Kiosk – Going for looks before context The Poker – a complete journal from the p.o.v. of poets 35 & under Fitterman’s Zukofsky: Reading an essay in verse, 1-800 Flowers http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 06:55:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: Release reading/party for Rod Smith’s new CD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Release reading/party for Rod Smith’s new CD Fear the Sky Saturday July 30th 7pm at the Once.Twice: Sound Store in Baltimore Maryland with Mel Nichols Heather Fuller And Rod Smith * after party to be announced (at reading) Once.Twice: Sound Store 519 North Charles Street Baltimore MD 410 244 7373 Rod Smith’s new full length CD of poetry titled Fear the Sky* is now available through www.narrowhouserecordings.com receive a discount if you order directly though our website (check/money order) credit card transactions are linked to www.CDBaby.com, our secure, international distributor Ron Silliman says "...at just under 71 minutes a full length recording with production values that would make an indie band weep with envy. Smith is the perfect poet for such a project, as he has the most active ear of any writer of his generation & he’s a great – if decidedly deadpan – reader of his own work. Listening to this recording feels like it takes 20 minutes & one is totally engrossed the entire time, as Smith demonstrates a range of affect far wider than I’ve heard from him before..." for wholesale information contact justin at caligulasirois@yahoo.com http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:15:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: LA: July Smell reading on Sunday the 31st MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit July Smell Reading on the 31st This month's reading features 4 poets and a musical guest. The poets are: Alan Semerdjian, coming to us from New York Shahe Mankerian Ara Shirinyan & Jane Sprague The musical performance will be by Neil Cavanagh. Readings will begin at 6:30 sharp. 247 South Main Los Angeles, CA 90019 enter the alley off 2nd; enter the smell off the alley We hope to see our pals Love, Stan Apps ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:03:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: FW: onedit.net issue 3 In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I also suggest issue 2: an art issue, with 55 pages from Isabelle Pelissier's folio notebooks, and an essay by Douglas Manson. JS ------ Forwarded Message From: Tim Atkins Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:28:42 +0100 To: Subject: onedit.net issue 3 Dear Friends, This email is to notify all interested [and, possibly, uninterested] parties that the new onedit is now up and running at: http://www.onedit.net It features: Thomas Evans, Rob Holloway, Laird Hunt, P.Inman, Peter Jaeger, Lisa Jarnot, Chris Paul, Eleni Sikelianos, Simon Smith, Brian Kim Stefans, translations of Horace, and a photo gallery. With best wishes to all, Tim Atkins [editor] ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:54:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tb2h Subject: Julliana Spahr contact info? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit can bc. thanks. tome bell tb2h@mtsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:07:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: IMPROVISATIONS from Nick Piombino's Fait Accompli MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With this backdrop, the arrival of Vernon Frazer's monumental *Improvisations* strikes with the sudden rumble and clap of a thunderbolt, what Edmund Wilson called *the shock of recognition.* At 8 and 3/4 inches wide, and 10 and 3/4 inches tall, the sprawling page layout comfortably accomodates this enormous 700 page tome, making this book one of the longest and largest work yet of visual poetry-combining nearly every imaginable mesh of print layout and font styles. One would have to go to a number of books by Johanna Drucker to find work of comparable typographical complexity. The constant alternation of formats makes -Improvisations- the most pleasurable book to browse I've seen since Drucker's work and my favoriate classic of the form, Frank Kuenstler's haunting, hard-to-find masterpiece, *Lens*. Reading the texts themselves is also consistently engaging, absorbing and amusing-Vernon Frazer is a performance poet working with jazz groups and has published several CD's. As Geof Huth says in his recent interview, there is a fascinating overlap between the aural and the visual in much vispo work, a synaesthetic quality I find fascinating. My only regret is, having to carry some groceries home to Brooklyn from my Manhattan office, along with Frazer's book (I received it very recently and wanted to write about it immediately) the book is so heavy I pulled my back out. But it was worth it! The book is available from *Beneath the Underground* 568 Brittany L, Delray Beach, FL, 33446 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:57:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: announcing - poetics.ca #5 In-Reply-To: <20050724183134.2915824726@smeagol.ncf.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What would be the reasons for writing a manifesto about something writers have been doing for hundreds of years, or closer to home, John Oswald's plunderphonics which I first heard about in the early 80s? Just looking for a good reason to read thru it. Or Cage's writing thru Finnegan's wake? ~mIEKAL On Jul 24, 2005, at 1:31 PM, Rob McLennan wrote: > > -- Plunderverse: A Cartographic Manifesto by Gregory Betts "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:36:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Xul Solar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There is an excellent article on Xul Solar in today's NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/25/arts/design/25sola.html Solar (1887- 1963) is one of the greatest modernist painters & poets of the Americas and it was thrilling to see his major retrospective show at MALBA with Ernesto Grosman and Susan Bee, when we were all in Buenos Aires last month. An excellent introduction to his work by Cecilia Vicuna is available on-line in English : http://www.wordswithoutborders.org/article.php?lab=XulSolar While the MALBA show is mainly of his great watercolors, and indeed he is known primarily as a visual artist, Solar was also one of the most significant practitioners of ideolectical modernism, along with Khlebnikov, Schwitters, and others. One of this two invented languages, "Pan Criollo" is a synthesis of Portuguese and Spanish, you might say the esperanto for South America. He also invented a "Pan Lingua," more along the lines of zaum, with its VVV base inflected by mathematics and astrology. Grosman -- who is now teaching at Boston College -- edited a Roof Books anthology of the Argentine poetry magazine, XUL, edited by Jorge Perednik (among others). The magazine, from the 1980s, took its name and inspiration from Xul Solar. Both the Roof Book English as well as all the original issues of the magazine are now on line at http://www.bc.edu/research/xul/ For more information about Xul Solar: http://www.xulsolar.org.ar/ Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:14:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Chicago and Midwest Events fall 2005 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends: We are in the process of completing the Chicagopostmodernpoetry Calendar for 2005 and 2006. If it is possible can you send us your personal reading schedules and your series' schedules for September-December 2005 and January-March 2006. We are also interested in any book launches, readings or lectures that are occuring in the following cities; Chicago Milwaukee Madison Iowa City South Bend Champaign Normal St Louis Thanks so much for your help for it makes Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com the success it is we just have our best month ever in June with over 10,000 unique visits and 150,000 hits from 44 countries. Regards Raymond Bianchi & Waltraud Haas Editors chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 22:36:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Cross Subject: Donovan/Schlesinger Release Reading! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All: For those in and around Buffalo this week! Please join us at Big Orbit Gallery this Friday, July 29th, for the Atticus/Finch book release party for Thom Donovan and Kyle Schlesinger's collaborative chapbook, _Mantle_. Donovan and Schlesinger will be joined by prolific Amherst poets Noah Eli Gordon ((_The Frequencies_ (Tougher Disguises, 2003) / _The Area of Sound Called the Subtone_ (Ahsahta Press, 2004)) and Sara Vegelen ((_Falling Forward_ (Braincase Press, 2003)) as they briefly stop in Buffalo while crossing our great nation to build a new, better life in Denver, CO. This, friends, is a collaborative poem showcase, guaranteed to have the audience collaborating in the fun! Big Orbit Gallery is located at 30-D Essex Street (more detailed directions below). Festivities begin at 8pm (sharp!). This event is FREE, but do bring a little something to pick up Thom and Kyle's fantastic new chapbook ($5) and an alcoholic beverage of your choice (proceeds to benefit the gallery)! See you then, Michael Directions to Big Orbit: From Downtown: Take Elmwood Avenue north to West Ferry. Turn left, proceed several blocks to traffic circle at Richmond Avenue. Go through circle and veer left onto Massachusetts Avenue. Entrance to parking lot is 1/2 block down on your right. Big Orbit Gallery is in the back of the lot. From Peace Bridge: After leaving toll plaza turn left onto Porter Avenue. Cross Niagara Street and proceed to Richmond Avenue. Turn left onto Richmond and proceed to the traffic circle at West Ferry. Turn left on West Ferry and immediately veer left onto Massachusetts. Entrance to parking lot is 1/2 block down on your right. Big Orbit Gallery is in the back of the lot. From UB South Campus: Take Main Street towards Downtown to West Ferry. Turn right and proceed through 3 lights to the traffic circle at Richmond Avenue. Go through circle and veer left onto Massachusetts Avenue. Entrance to parking lot is 1/2 block down on your right. Big Orbit Gallery is in the back of the lot. From I-90 east/west: Exit at 33 west downtown and proceed to the 198 interchange. From 198 exit at Elmwood South. Take Elmwood to West Ferry. Turn right on West Ferry and continue to traffic circle at Richmond Avenue. Go through circle and veer left onto Massachusetts Avenue. Entrance to parking lot is 1/2 block down on your right. Big Orbit Gallery is in the back of the lot. From 190 north/south. Exit at 198. On 198 exit at Elmwood Avenue. Turn right and proceed to Elmwood. Turn left on Elmwood and proceed to West Ferry. Turn right and proceed to the traffic circle at Richmond Avenue. Go through circle and veer left onto Massachusetts Avenue. Entrance to parking lot is 1/2 block down on your right. Big Orbit Gallery is in the back of the lot. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:06:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gregory Betts Subject: Re: announcing - poetics.ca #5 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mIEKAL aND wrote: > What would be the reasons for writing a manifesto about something > writers have been doing for hundreds of years thus 'cartographic' -- exploring the territory that intertextual writings have uncovered since Echo -- and manifesto, using that territory as the basis for ongoing poetic practice. or closer to home, John > Oswald's plunderphonics plunderverse is an obvious nod to oswald's magic touch -- making self-contained works of art through other self-contained works of art. > Just looking for a good reason to read thru it. well, here i am with no claims on reason, nor on good -- but writing through what i have found useful. texts trigger texts, just as language invigorates language; closed systems of infinite potential/invention. the article maps out a form of unravelling within texts embedded counter-poems that have their own unique and self-contained logic. plunderverse is a name being used in reference to a specific form of constraint-based, intertextual writing (writing through deletions, etc) that a few poets up here have been exploring of late. the article in question outlines the form and its roots in a community of experimentation across generations and centuries, and provides a few examples of how the constraint functions, and why/when/etc. the form is an endeavour to write voice(s) into and through the excess of poetic language, while demonstrating influence, reaction, and hyper-active readership. is it worth reading? well, it's the start of ongoing work -- ! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 00:42:22 -0400 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: First Book Award Deadline 8/15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Annual Transcontinental Poetry Award by Pavement Saw Press All contributors receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Please mention this to your friends, students and others who might be interested! Each year Pavement Saw Press will seek to publish at least one book of poetry and/or prose poems from manuscripts received during this competition. Selection is made anonymously through a competition that is open to anyone who has not previously published a volume of poetry or prose. The author receives $1000 and a percentage of the press run. Previous judges have included Judith Vollmer, David Bromige, Bin Ramke and Howard McCord. All poems must be original, all prose must be original, fiction or translations are not acceptable. Writers who have had volumes of poetry and/or prose under 40 pages printed or printed in limited editions of no more than 500 copies are eligible. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and until August 15th. All submissions must have an August 15th, 2005, or earlier, postmark. This is an award for first books only. Previous Winners: Steve Davenport: Uncontainable Noise Garin Cycholl: Blue Mound to 161 Rodney Koeneke: Rouge State Chris Arigo: Lit interim Sofia Starnes: A Commerce of Moments Daniel Zimmerman: Post Avant Jeffrey Levine: Mortal, Everlasting Dana Curtis: The Body's Response to Famine Entries must meet these requirements: 1. The manuscript should be at least 48 pages of poetry and no more than 70 pages of poetry in length. Separations between sections are not a part of the page count. 2. A one page cover letter which includes a brief biography, the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, your signature, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. This should be followed by a page which lists publication acknowledgments for the book. For each acknowledgement mention the publisher (journal, anthology, chapbook etc.) and the poem published. 3. The manuscript should be bound with a single clip and begin with a title page including the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. 4. The second page should have only the title of the manuscript. There are to be no acknowledgments or mention of the author's name from this page forward. Submissions to the contest are judged anonymously. 5. The manuscript should be paginated, beginning with the first page of poetry. 6. There should be no more than one poem on each page. The manuscript can contain pieces that are longer than one page. Your manuscript should be accompanied by a check in the amount of $18.00 made payable to Pavement Saw Press. All US contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 (US) for other countries to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification of results, this information will be sent with the free book. While the judge will choose the prize winner, sometimes another anonymous manuscript is chosen by the editor, if enough entries arrive. This “editors choice” manuscript will be published under a standard royalty contract. A decision will be reached in November. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts will be recycled and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. Entries should be sent to: Pavement Saw Press Transcontinental Award Entry P.O. Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 All submissions must have an August 15th, or earlier, postmark. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and August only. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:52:53 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: New Jesse Glass Home Page at Sonoloco Reviews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ingvar Loco Nordin has been kind enough to set up a page devoted to some of the things I'm about at http://home.swipnet.se/sonoloco18/glass/glass.html You7ll see a great picture of the late Lucid Larry, my crayfish, plus Biggie the goldfish and a pretty nice stag beetle. Graphic notation, performance texts and visual poetry will be going up at the site in the near future as well. The Sonoloco site is devoted to reviews of experimental music and sound poetry (Jaap Blonk has a page there too). If you're interested in everything from Stockhausen to a wild Swedish sound poetess shaman named Alientalo (heard her stuff--she's great), then come and take a look. If the above link doesn't get you there, then go to google, type in Sonoloco and go to "new" and it's yours. Meanwhile we're going earthquake crazy at ahadada books http://sendecki.com/ahadada/ because we suffered through one a few days back, in addition we almost have a new on-line collaboration between David and Christine Kennedy up. Take a look. Then take another look. Jess (with a Typhoon rattling the wires as I write this.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:36:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: The Looting of the Iraq Museum Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed This book looks fascinating. In a different review I read in =20 Scientific American it quotes the book as saying "Biggs recounts how =20 the Chicago department store Marshall Field's was selling cuneiform =20 tablets from Ur for $10 each as late as the 1960s" which kinda shocks =20= my sheltered world view of the sacredness of these objects. ~mIEKAL] The Looting of the Iraq Museum, Baghdad edited by Milbry Polk and =20 Angela M H Schuster REVIEWED BY DAN CRUICKSHANK THE LOOTING OF THE IRAQ MUSEUM, BAGHDAD: The Lost Legacy of Ancient =20 Mesopotamia edited by Milbry Polk and Angela M H Schuster Harry N Abrams =A320 pp242 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2102-1597272,00.html This is a gripping, inspiring yet most perplexing book. It details =20 the rich cultural history of Iraq and sets out to reveal the fate =20 that befell the Iraq Museum in April 2003 when Baghdad was engulfed =20 by chaos as US forces stormed and took the city. At the time, the =20 world was told that the museum had been savagely looted in the =20 greatest cultural tragedy since the second world war. This book =20 explains the importance of its collection and places its fate in 2003 =20= in the context of the looting currently devastating Iraq=92s 10,000 =20 archeologically important sites. William Polk, an American academic and the father of one of the =20 book=92s co-editors, has written the introduction, in which he =20 describes himself as one of the =93last people to see the [museum=92s] =20= collection in its breathtaking entirety=94. Polk offers a description =20= of what happened in April 2003. He states that some of the =20 commercially most valuable =93or at least most movable=94 pieces were =20= stored in the vaults but that =93even massive steel doors gave way or =20= were blasted apart=94. He describes events with admirable conviction. =20= We are told that =93gangs of looters swarmed into the building. Some =20 appear to have been professional, acting in concert with =20 international dealers and even with resident diplomats . . . Others, =20 probably amateurs, took sledgehammers and chain saws to giant =20 statues=94 while =93an =91antiquities mafia=92 quickly sprang into = existence=94. This all sounds plausibly reassuring: a terrible cultural crime =20 committed by cunning criminals, cynical foreign =93diplomats=94 cashing =20= in on the chaos, the poor driven to looting through =93desperation=94 =97 = =20 as the world and its greatest military power, the US army, stood by. =20 But how is Polk so certain about the nature of the looting? I can =20 only assume that he is describing events as told to him by others, =20 for he does not claim to have been in Baghdad in April 2003. Well, I =20 was, and the story I discovered was far more complex, mysterious and =20 political than Polk=92s account suggests. As well as housing one of the world=92s great collections of ancient =20 artefacts, the museum was also part of the Ba=92ath party apparatus =97 =20= as were all important public institutions in Saddam=92s Iraq =97 and its = =20 cultural and political roles were intricately entwined. What soon =20 became clear to me was that the attack could also be read as a =20 popular act of vengeance against the party and its members, an =20 interpretation supported by the fact that the museum=92s offices not =20 its galleries were the prime targets. I went to Baghdad with a BBC team at the end of April to discover the =20 truth of what had really happened during those few key days from =20 April 9-16. According to all accounts, fighting raged around the =20 museum until April 9, and it was not until April 16 that the =20 Americans placed it under full-time protection. =46rom April 10-12 the =20= building was open to all, and it was during these three days that the =20= looting took place. Like many journalists, I was drawn to Baghdad by alarming stories, =20 circulated around the world by museum staff within hours of the US =20 troops=92 arrival. These suggested that 170,000 items had been stolen =20= or destroyed, and implied that America was to blame for not =20 immediately guarding the place. During a previous visit to Iraq, in November 2002 =97 to make a film =20 for BBC2 showing exactly what was at risk if the unthinkable and =20 insane happened and Iraq became a battlefield =97 I had visited the =20 museum, met its director of research Dr Donny George, and seen its =20 wonders. Iraq is rightly known as the cradle of civilisation =97 the =20 land where, 7,000 years or so ago, most things we consider to be the =20 hallmarks of civilisation had their origin: writing, mathematics, =20 urban living, arts, crafts, agriculture. And the Iraq Museum =20 displayed the treasures of the land =97 quite simply it was one of the =20= most important repositories of culture, history and beauty on earth. =20 My conversation with George was fascinating. He told me that adequate =20= precautions had been =97 and were being =97 taken to protect the =20 collection. It also became clear, as I walked around, that many items =20= had been removed. Why, when and where these had gone no-one would =20 reveal. Unlike Polk, who appears to have surveyed the place after me, =20= I did not see the collection =93in its breathtaking entirety=94. I =20 suppose it is possible that the removed items were returned between =20 November 2002 and Polk=92s undated =93last-minute=94 trip, but I doubt = it. What rapidly became clear on my second visit was that the pillaging =20 was a most complex event, with no obvious villains and with truth, as =20= ever, being the first victim in conflict. Stung by the accusation of =20 responsibility, US forces had launched an inquiry, and were =20 initiating attempts to discover and retrieve missing items. I spoke =20 to these investigators and to US forces guarding the building =97 the =20= same troops that had seized it on April 9. Some very tricky issues soon arose, all of which are ignored by this =20 book. The troops claimed that the museum had been turned into a =20 fighting position. George insisted this was not true, and that =20 bunkers in the grounds were merely air-raid shelters. And then there =20 was the role of the staff. Some had been members of the Ba=92ath party =20= while others, US investigators surmised, must surely have been =20 involved in the looting: a number of thefts from storerooms seemed =20 very much like inside jobs. So what really happened and, more important, what is now to be done? =20 By the time I left, in early May, it had been admitted that the claim =20= of 170,000 items lost or destroyed was an exaggeration. Quite why =20 such a sensational claim was ever made has never been satisfactorily =20 explained. I accompanied Mathew Bogdanos, the US marine colonel and =20 lawyer heading the investigation, and a team of US soldiers and Iraqi =20= museum staff to the vaults of the Central Bank of Iraq in al-Rashid =20 Street. Although the bank had been bombed, its vault was intact and =20 sealed and many valuable items =97 including 616 pieces forming the =20 famed collection called the =93Nimrud Gold=94 =97 were found there safe = and =20 sound. Members of the BBC team also joined the inspection of the =20 secure storage rooms at the museum. Although some had been entered =20 and items stolen =97 and weapons left behind seemingly confirmed that =20= parts of the building had been used as a fighting position =97 the =20 other storage rooms were intact, with doors locked and stacks of =20 crates containing treasures apparently still sealed and untouched. =20 Contrary to what Polk says, the doors of none of these rooms had been =20= =93blasted apart=94: they were either still locked or had been entered =20= with a key. By June the number of important items missing had been scaled down to =20= just 32, although tens of thousands of relatively minor pieces were =20 still missing. In the following weeks other significant items were =20 returned or discovered during swoops, including the hugely important =20 5,000-year-old Warka Vase. This was the one large and valuable item =20 stolen by a well-prepared and mysterious team during April 10-12. George=92s account of events is most interesting. He is now museum =20 director, and has written the foreword to this book. When I met him =20 that April he was clearly exhausted, in a state of great distress and =20= unsure about what exactly had been stolen. Now he states that =20 although =93the looters broke through the main galleries and the store =20= rooms, stealing and destroying everything they could get their hands =20 on=94, the toll was around 15,000 items. George also states that, as a =20= result of international efforts, around 6,000 objects have been =20 returned, including many from abroad with =93over 600 in the United =20 States=94. Material is, he says, being recovered =93almost every day=94 =20= although more than 50% of what was lost is still missing. (The =20 British Museum=92s more gloomy assessment is that the toll of missing =20= items remains at 15,000.) I for one remain confused by what really happened. Back in April 2003 =20= the one missing item that confounded all attempts to quantify the =20 loss was an up-to-date museum inventory. One did not seem to exist. =20 Has one since been unearthed, and if not how on earth have figures =20 been arrived at? Were the crates, discovered apparently intact in =20 late April, in fact unlooted and if so, where are their contents now? =20= This book does not tell us. After reading it I am still unsure about =20 what has survived. It describes many of the museum=92s greatest =20 treasures without always explaining if they have survived, were =20 stolen, have been recovered or were damaged. For example, the 4,500-=20 year-old lyre from Ur is described and illustrated in all its glory, =20 yet I saw it in shattered bits in a workshop. An exception is the =20 stupendous 8th-century female bust, known as the Mona Lisa of Nimrud. =20= In April this was regarded as one of the greatest losses. Yet it must =20= have been stored in the flooded vaults of the Central Bank because =20 the book says it is safe but =93severely=94 damaged by water. This book is a fine academic study of the wonders of ancient =20 Mesopotamian culture as represented in the museum, and also a plea =20 from the heart: as the authors explain, =93those who choose the =20 devastating path of war [must] understand not only its human cost but =20= its cultural cost as well=94. But it is not the last word on the =20 region=92s tragic recent history. Certainly its simplified account of =20= what happened in April 2003 does not tally with what I myself saw or =20 with what I was told by those intimately involved with the =20 investigation. The full story =97 the means and motives behind the =20 attacks on the museum =97 has yet to be told, and it=92s vital that it =20= should be told =97 for only the truth can help heal the wounds and =20 soothe the anger that now torment this tragically fragmented nation.= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:01:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 07-25-05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NICKEL CITY POETRY SLAM Friday, July 29, 2005, 8-10 p.m. Clifton Hall, Albright-Knox Art Gallery Free Just Buffalo Literary Center and the Albright-Knox Art Gallery are sponsori= ng the first Nickel City Poetry Slam, teaming with National Poetry Slam vet= eran Gabrielle Bouliane, who has returned to her hometown after nine years = on the stages of Seattle, WA. Ten nationally-competitive poets from New Yor= k City, Baltimore, Washington DC, Minneapolis, Columbus, and Worcester, MA = will compete for a =24500 top prize=21 For more information, please see htt= p://www.albrightknox.org/gusto/july.html or http://www.justbuffalo.org/. Fo= r more information, please contact Gabrielle Bouliane at 716/884-0225 or mu= ltimediagrl=40hotmail.com. Interview subjects available. A SNEAK PREVIEW OF FALL READINGS IN THE BRAND NEW =22ORBITAL SERIES=22 September 8 International Women's Poetry Reading (details TBA), 7 p.m., CEPA's Flux G= allery 29 Sesshu Foster and James Stevens, Fiction and Poetry, 7 p.m., Big Orbit G= allery October 7 Michael Davidson, Poetry, 7 p.m., CEPA's Flux Galllery 21 John Ashbery, Poetry, 8 p.m., Albright Knox Art Gallery 28 Mark Von Schlegell, Science Fiction, Talking Leaves Books, Main St. Stor= e November 3 Kazim Ali and Ethan Paquin, Poetry, 7 p.m., Big Orbit Gallery 11Charles Blackstone, Fiction, 7 p.m., Talking Leaves, Main St. 17 Robert Fitterman and Eric Gelsiinger, Poetry, 7 p.m., Big Orbit In order to welcome everyone to the new series, all events will be free and= open to the public. Enjoy=21 More to come.... WORLD OF VOICES RESIDENCIES October 31-November 4, Genie Zeiger December 5-9, Nancy Logamarsino IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK This year's title, The Invention of Solitude, by Paul Auster, is available = at area bookstores. All books purchased at Talking Leaves Books will benef= it Just Buffalo. Paul Auster will visit Buffalo October 5-6. On October 5, = he will read from the book and answer questions from the audience at Trinit= y Church at 8 p.m. On October 6, Just Buffalo and Hallwalls will present a = special screening of the film, =22Smoke,=22 at the Market Arcade Film and A= rts Center. Paul Auster will introduce the film, which will followed by a = screening and discussion about his expereinces as a screenwriter and direct= or. A reader's discussion guide of The Invention of Solitude is available = on the Just Buffalo website. If All of Buffalo Read the Same Book is made possible with the generous su= pport of The National Endowment for the Arts, Hodgson Russ LLP, M & T Bank,= WBFO 88.7 FM, Talking Leaves Books, The Hunt Charitable Foundation and Hun= t Real Estate, The Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences at Buffalo Stat= e College, The Zemsky Family Foundation, The Simple Gifts Fund, Jeffrey and= Shelley Hirshberg, Hallwalls Contemporary Arts Center, Penguin Internation= al, Harlequin Books and Reid Petroleum. For sponsorship opportunities, plea= se contact Laurie Torrell or Mike Kelleher at 832-5400. JUST BUFFALO WRITER=E2=80=99S CRITIQUE GROUP Just Buffalo=E2=80=99s member-only writer critique group is on hiatus this = summer while we settle into our new digs. It will begin again on Wednesday= , September 7, and will meet in CEPA=E2=80=99s Flux Gallery on the first fl= oor of the Market Arcade. To attend, all you need to do is join Just Buffal= o. Please call 832-5400 for more info. Coming soon...Fall writing workshop preview=21 UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:36:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: PLEASE READ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subj: Urgent: Ask Your Representative to Say 'No' to CAFTA Date:=20 7/26/2005 1:32:20 PM Eastern Standard Time From: _newsmanager@peta.org_=20 (mailto:newsmanager@peta.org) To: _CACONRAD13@AOL.COM_ (mailto:CACONRAD13@= AOL.COM) =20 Sent from the Internet _(Details)_ (aolmsg://0329d678/inethdr/2) =20 Urgent: Ask Your Representative to Say =E2=80=98No=E2=80=99 to CAFTA=20 Sometime in the next two days, the U.S. House of Representatives will vote=20 on DR-CAFTA (the Dominican Republic-Central America Free Trade Agreement).=20= If=20 this bill passes, it will be a disaster for farmed animals. All the major=20 front groups for the meat, egg, and dairy industries, including the Nationa= l=20 Chicken Council, the American Meat Institute, the National Pork Producers=20 Council, and the National Cattlemen=E2=80=99s Beef Association, are aggress= ively lobbying=20 in support of DR-CAFTA. Why do these industries, which profit from the=20 suffering of animals, support this trade agreement? Because DR-CAFTA will o= pen the=20 doors for enormous animal-abusing corporations like _Tyson_=20 (http://cl.exct.net/?ffcc17-fe5716767d66037c7d12-fe3815737664057b741577) , =20= _Pilgrim=E2=80=99s Pride_=20 (http://cl.exct.net/?ffcc17-fe5616767d66037c7d13-fe3815737664057b741577) , a= nd=20 _Smithfield_=20 (http://cl.exct.net/?ffcc17-fe5516767d66037c7d1c-fe3815737664057b741577) t= o pour hundreds of millions of dollars into building new factory=20 farms in Central America. As more and more Americans turn toward vegetarian= ism,=20 these industries are desperate to find new markets for their unhealthy,=20 inhumane products. DR-CAFTA will make it much easier for these corporations= to=20 peddle flesh, eggs, and dairy in Central America. =20 Millions of farmed animals will suffer on factory farms if DR-CAFTA passes.=20= =20 While the meat industry doles out contributions to politicians on Capitol=20 Hill, it=E2=80=99s vital that everyone who cares about animals make their v= oices heard.=20 Please immediately call (it=E2=80=99s too late for letters) your representa= tive and =20 ask him or her to stop DR-CAFTA in its tracks. =20 Visit _Congress.org_=20 (http://cl.exct.net/?ffcc17-fe5416767d66037c7d1d-fe3815737664057b741577) t= o find your representative=E2=80=99s phone number.=20 The best way you can stop factory farming is by joining the growing ranks of= =20 vegetarians around the world. For a free vegetarian starter kit, full of =20 delicious recipes and a free DVD, visit _VegetarianStarterKit.com_=20 (http://cl.exct.net/?ffcc17-fe5c16767d66037c7c14-fe3815737664057b741577) . =20 Thanks for all that you do for animals. Sincerely, Chris Holbein Vegan Campaigns People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals=20 =20 ____________________________________ Click _here_=20 (http://cl.exct.net/?ffcc17-fe5b16767d66037c7c15-fe3815737664057b741577) t= o forward this email to a friend. Go _here_=20 (http://cl.exct.net/?ffcc17-fe5a16767d66037c7c16-fe3815737664057b741577) t= o leave this mailing list or _modify_=20 (http://cl.exct.net/?ffcc17-fe5916767d66037c7c17-fe3815737664057b741577) y= our email profile. This email=20 was sent by: PETA 501 Front St Norfolk, VA, 23510, United States ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:55:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Linda Russo Subject: new address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline As some of you know, I've accepted a position at the University of Oklahoma. Here's my new address, and, by all means, if you're headed my out west on a poetry reading tour or whatnot, drop me a line - Linda Russo Edith Kinney Gaylord - Expository Writing Program University of Oklahoma 401 W. Brooks St. Bizzell Library, Room 4 Norman, OK 73019-2121 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:39:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: Re: hey guys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FUNDRAISING EVENT For A Gathering of the Tribes Magazine at Bowery Poetry Club Saturday, July 30th 4-6 pm Featuring Cheryl B, poet Hal Sirowitz, poet Susan L. Yung, poet Steve Dalachinsky, poet Featured Musician Billy Bang And Guitarist Bern Nix Hosted by Amy Ouzoonian Bowery Poetry Club is located at 308 Bowery @ Bleecker (Across from CBGB’s) take the F train to 2nd Ave and Houston. for more info call (212) 674-8262 or (212) 674-3778 Admission is $10.00 All proceeds of this event goes towards the production of A Gathering of the Tribes magazine and the future activities of its non-profit arts organization ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:25:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: SubText/Seattle - Rusty Morrison & Christine Deavel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with readings by Rusty Morrison and Christine Deavel at Richard Hugo House on Wednesday, August 3, 2005. Donations for admission will be taken at the door on the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Rusty Morrison's Whethering won the 2004 Colorado Prize for Poetry, selected by Forrest Gander. Her poems &/or essays have appeared in Boston Review, Conduit, Conjunctions, Denver Quarterly, First Intensity, New American Writing, Rain Taxi, ZYZZYVA, and elsewhere. She is the co-winner of the 2003 Robert H. Winner Memorial Award from the Poetry Society of America, and the Five Fingers Review Poetry Prize. Co-editor and co-publisher of Omnidawn Publishing, and co-edits the poetry journal 26, which is affiliated with the Saint Mary's MFA program. She is also a contributing editor for Poetry Flash. Christine Deavel's work has appeared in Fence, Ploughshares, Talisman, American Poetry Review, and other magazines. She is co-owner of Open Books: A Poem Emporium, one of two poetry-only bookstores in the country. The future Subtext 2005 schedule is: Sep 7, 2005: Poetics Panel curated by Ezra Mark, w/Jeanne Heuving & others TBA Oct 5, 2005: Steve Collis (Vancouver BC) & TBA. Nov 2, 2005: Dodie Bellamy and Kevin Killian (both San Francisco) Dec 7, 2005: Rebecca Brown, David McAleavey (Wa DC), Charles Alexander (Arizona) For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://www.speakeasy.org/~subtext Subtext events are co-sponsored by Richard Hugo House. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 01:00:50 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Hoerman Subject: Mass. Reading Series Upcoming Features MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Poetribe Open mike and featured poet Every other Saturday night 8 PM East Bridgewater Public Library 32 Union Street East Bridgewater, MA UPCOMING FEATURES Jul 30 Adrian Blevins Aug 13 Nicole Terez Aug 27 Caroline Harvey Sep 10 Michael Hoerman Sep 24 Afaa Michael Weaver Oct 8 Jennifer Barber Oct 22 Student Showcase Nov 5 Thomas O'Grady Nov 19 Forrest Gander ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:24:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Blogs & Takes & Sightings (including a Creeley!) Comments: cc: "Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, UK POETRY Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If - like myself - you were, unconsciously or not, looking for a Creeley apparition and/or sighting, there is a nice one (well, it's funny and something more, at the same time) over in Ashland, Oregon not far from the home of Kasey S. Mohammed. Take a look on Kasey's "Lime Tree": http://limetree.ksilem.com/ If you want, as well, another take on Spicer's "No one listens to poetry" from Language, I have a new blog piece up today: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com If that's too serious and you want to lighten up, for some good summer fun, check out Chris Sullivan over at Slight Publications, where he's got his whole visual lang & audio shot rolling again. Smart and sly as a tack. Don't miss the Otis Redding Memorial Bridge - I swear. http://www.8letters.blogspot.com/ Of course, John Latta - I don't know what perfume he's on - but Hotel Point is over the top, "mesmerismo" these days. He's really shaking up an education in Americo Lit, and it's quite a ride, the quotes all churning and bringing up magico touches. Tap this man's energy now. And give him a bed to rest in when he gets out of the torrents. http://www.hotelpoint.blogspot.com/ It must be the summer heat - no school and a lot of wonderfully messed up heads! Can't be Karl Rove and his buddy Scooter and their two big bosses - while everyone waits! Enjoy, Stephen Vincent Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:58:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: Burning Chair Reading Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Don't be shy! Come to the next Burning Chair reading featuring Joshua Corey & Peter Markus on Sunday, July 31st, 8PM, at the Cloister Cafe, 238 East 9th Street between 2nd & 3rd Aveneues. Then visit us again and again, and help spread the word. The Burning Chair will host twenty-six poets between now and the end of 2005, at the Cloister Cafe and in our recently inaugerated Brooklyn New Poets series, which features Brooklynites at The Fall Cafe in Carroll Gardens. Burning Chair Readings @ The Cloister Cafe, 238 East 9th Street Readings begin at 8 PM August 28 Jonah Winter & Max Winter September 25 Anne Boyer, Ange Mlinko, & Valzhyna Mort October 6 Kent Johnson & David Shapiro October 30 Lisa Jarnot & Tony Tost November 6 Action Books w/ Lara Glenum, Johannes Göransson, & Arielle Greenberg November 20 Jeff Encke & Aaron McCollough December 18 Sheila Squillante & Rachel Zucker Brooklyn New Poets Readings @ The Fall Cafe, 307 Smith Street, Readings begin at 7:30 PM August 12 Amy King & Justin Marks September 16 Andrew Mister & Gabriella Torres September 23 Anne Boyer & John Latta October 14 Carla Conforto & Jeffery Morgan November 18 Andrea Baker & Charles Valle To get to The Fall Cafe, take the F or G to Carroll Street. The Fall Cafe is located on Smith between Union & President in Carroll Gardens. Matthew Henriksen maa@typomag.com www.typomag.com/burningchair ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:07:09 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Last week's 'perspective' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Australian Poet Laurie Duggan - a five minute perspective on the Australian Broadcasting Commission's Radio National http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/perspective/stories/s1419563.htm Best wishes, Pam Brown Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:44:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Burning Chair Reading Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i wanna read in a burning chair too you bur the chair i sit in yet the chair i sit in does not burn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:09:26 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: LAURIE RESTING ON HIS LAURELS In-Reply-To: <20050727040709.81744.qmail@web33201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm afraid the narrow attitudes expressed in laurie duggan's abc = interview force me to SHOUT OUT THAT HE KNOWS NOT OF WHAT HE SPEAKS. JUST LIKE THE PERFORMANCE POETS SHOUTED DOWN DAVID MALOUF IN 1978 AT THE ADELAIDE FESTIVAL BECAUSE HE HADN'T BOTHERED TO FAMILIARISE HIMSELF WITH MANY DIFFERENT POETIC ACTIVITIES TAKING PLACE IN AUSTRALIA IN THE LATE 1970S. LAURIE DUGGAN HAS GROWN LAZY ON AUSTRALIAN POETRY AND=20 DOESN'T KNOW IT VERY WELL. HE PRESCRIBES WHAT POETRY SHOULD LOOK LIKE, PRINTED ON A 2D PAGE, AND FLAT 2D PAGES OF POETRY CAN BE MORE = EFFECTIVELY DISTRIBUTED VIA THE INTERNET. AFTER ALL HE IS A BOOK EDITOR, AND HE IS = ONLY QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON THAT, AND THAT IS ONLY A VERY SMALL PART OF WHAT = IS GOING ON IN AUSTRALIAN POETRY. TO DISMISS PERFORMANCE POETRY AS ONLY FOLLOWING THE SLAM MODEL IS = SHOWING REAL IGNORANCE OF THE POETRY READINGS THAT FILL THE POETS UNION = NEWSLETTER EACH MONTH, IN ALL STATES. THERE ARE MORE PERFORMANCE VENUES FOR POETRY = THAN THERE HAVE EVER BEEN, VERY FEW RUN SLAMS. PERFORMANCE POETS EARN GOOD SALARIES RUNNING WORKSHOPS IN SCHOOLS AND = THE COMMUNITY. IT IS A VERY ACTIVE INDUSTRY. TO DISMISS THE HYPERMEDIA POETRY PRODUCED IN AUSTRALIA AND SHOWCASED IN PAPERTIGER EACH YEAR, PUBLISHED ON CD-ROM, AND ON THE WEB, INFLECT AT = UC, FOR ONE, JAYNE FENTON KEANE'S SITE, AND PERHAPS MY OWN SITE AS 'HYPERFETISHES' WITH TECHNOLOGY AND 'MORE CONCERNED WITH THE BOX THAN = THE CONTENTS'. HE DISMISSES THEORETICAL ADVANCES OF THE LAST TEN YEARS REGARDING = HYPERTEXT, THE INTERACTIVE POEM, THE TEMPORALLY UNFIXED EXPERIENCE, THE ABILITY OF = THE END USER TO DETERMINE A DIRECTION THROUGH A TEXT, THE UNIQUENESS OF = EACH ENGAGEMENT WITH A HYPERMEDIA POEM, THE SOFTWARE PROCESSING OF TEXTS, THE POLY-SEMIOTIC READING OF THESE PIECES, THE USE OF MOTION AND ANIMATION, SOUND AND IMAGE NOT TO DECORATE BUT TO WORK WITH THE WORDS TO TELL NEW POETRY IN NEW CONTAINERS. IT UPSETS ME HOW PEOPLE WHO AREN'T PREPARED TO ENGAGE WITH A MEDIUM ARE = ITS MAIN CRITICS, AND ESTABLISH A DUALITY BETWEEN THE NEW AND THE KNOWN SO = THAT THEY CAN FEEL SECURE THAT AT LEAST THEY CAN BE MODERATELY SUCCESSFUL = POETS IN ONE SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT. THERE IS A LOT OF ACTIVITY IN THE BOOK PUBLISHING INDUSTRY, PEOPLE STILL = SEE THIS AS CURRENCY, BUT WHY DENY WHAT ELSE IS HAPPENING OR IS POSSIBLE. = PLEASE GIVE ME POETS WHO CELEBRATE ITS MULTIPLICITY AND NOT ITS UNITY/DUALITY, = WE HAD ENOUGH OF THAT IN THE 1970S FROM WHAT HISTORY TELLS ME. CHEERS Oh i'll be quiet now, sorry, cheers Bye all komninos komninos zervos lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major School of Arts Griffith University Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 Gold Coast Campus Parkwood PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre Queensland 9726 Australia Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of Pam Brown |||Sent: Wednesday, 27 July 2005 2:07 PM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: Last week's 'perspective' ||| |||Australian Poet Laurie Duggan - |||a five minute perspective on the Australian |||Broadcasting Commission's Radio National ||| |||http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/perspective/stories/s1419563.htm ||| |||Best wishes, |||Pam Brown ||| ||| ||| |||Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ ||| |||Send instant messages to your online friends |||http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: = 25/07/05 ||| --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 25/07/05 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 03:17:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: dbcinema v0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dbcinema v0.3 http://vispo.com/dbcinema ja ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 21:48:59 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: dbcinema v0.3 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dlightfull Great work jim Wow So what we type gets fed to search engine it asks google to get images then loads them as a slideshow. Is that right? Enjoyed playing with it a lot,very clever A googlism with images sort of. komninos zervos homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of Jim Andrews |||Sent: Wednesday, 27 July 2005 8:17 PM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: dbcinema v0.3 ||| |||dbcinema v0.3 |||http://vispo.com/dbcinema ||| |||ja ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 25/07/05 ||| -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 25/07/05 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:29:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: SEATTLE, VANCOUVER, ETC... Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Quick last minute note--- My band, Continuous Peasant, is playing its last gigs before an indefinite hiatus this coming week.... Thurs, 7/28 Roberts Creek, BC FRI, 7/29 Vancouver, BC (Railway Club) Sat 7/30 Kelowna, BC. Duotone Arts Festival Sun, 7/31 Seattle (Sunset Tavern The 8/1 Portland show is cancelled as our bassist has to move to Colorado that day! It'd be great to see any of you there.... thanks for all your support-- C ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Burning Chair Reading Series In-Reply-To: <20050727025810.96298.qmail@web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I, too, would like to read in this series, if you're interested. I've had eight books published and had poems appear in many places including the New York Times, Hanging Loose, The World, and many other print and email venues. Regards, Tom Savage email:Tsavagebar@yahoo.com. Matt Henriksen wrote:Don't be shy! Come to the next Burning Chair reading featuring Joshua Corey & Peter Markus on Sunday, July 31st, 8PM, at the Cloister Cafe, 238 East 9th Street between 2nd & 3rd Aveneues. Then visit us again and again, and help spread the word. The Burning Chair will host twenty-six poets between now and the end of 2005, at the Cloister Cafe and in our recently inaugerated Brooklyn New Poets series, which features Brooklynites at The Fall Cafe in Carroll Gardens. Burning Chair Readings @ The Cloister Cafe, 238 East 9th Street Readings begin at 8 PM August 28 Jonah Winter & Max Winter September 25 Anne Boyer, Ange Mlinko, & Valzhyna Mort October 6 Kent Johnson & David Shapiro October 30 Lisa Jarnot & Tony Tost November 6 Action Books w/ Lara Glenum, Johannes Göransson, & Arielle Greenberg November 20 Jeff Encke & Aaron McCollough December 18 Sheila Squillante & Rachel Zucker Brooklyn New Poets Readings @ The Fall Cafe, 307 Smith Street, Readings begin at 7:30 PM August 12 Amy King & Justin Marks September 16 Andrew Mister & Gabriella Torres September 23 Anne Boyer & John Latta October 14 Carla Conforto & Jeffery Morgan November 18 Andrea Baker & Charles Valle To get to The Fall Cafe, take the F or G to Carroll Street. The Fall Cafe is located on Smith between Union & President in Carroll Gardens. Matthew Henriksen maa@typomag.com www.typomag.com/burningchair ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:01:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Burning Chair Reading Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tom and i will read together ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 08:07:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Tom Savage's blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom Savage now has a blog and is inviting entries to it. Subjects so far:the nature of collaboration and whether or not poetry is an entertainment, just an entertainment, more than an entertainment, a religion. The Blog can be found at the following link: click here __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 15:26:05 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Raymond Bianchi Subject: Re: Burning Chair Reading Series Comments: cc: Thomas savage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit when you decide that you want to have some writers from outside the New York experience I would love to read.... Regards Ray Bianchi -------------- Original message -------------- > I, too, would like to read in this series, if you're interested. I've had eight > books published and had poems appear in many places including the New York > Times, Hanging Loose, The World, and many other print and email venues. > Regards, Tom Savage email:Tsavagebar@yahoo.com. > > Matt Henriksen wrote:Don't be shy! Come to the next > Burning Chair reading > featuring > > Joshua Corey & Peter Markus > on Sunday, July 31st, 8PM, > at the Cloister Cafe, > 238 East 9th Street > between 2nd & 3rd Aveneues. > > Then visit us again and again, and help spread the > word. The Burning Chair will host twenty-six poets > between now and the end of 2005, at the Cloister Cafe > and in our recently inaugerated Brooklyn New Poets > series, which features Brooklynites at The Fall Cafe > in Carroll Gardens. > > > Burning Chair Readings @ The Cloister Cafe, 238 East > 9th Street > Readings begin at 8 PM > August 28 Jonah Winter & Max Winter > September 25 Anne Boyer, Ange Mlinko, & Valzhyna Mort > October 6 Kent Johnson & David Shapiro > October 30 Lisa Jarnot & Tony Tost > November 6 Action Books w/ Lara Glenum, Johannes > Göransson, > & Arielle Greenberg > November 20 Jeff Encke & Aaron McCollough > December 18 Sheila Squillante & Rachel Zucker > > > Brooklyn New Poets Readings @ The Fall Cafe, 307 Smith > Street, > Readings begin at 7:30 PM > August 12 Amy King & Justin Marks > September 16 Andrew Mister & Gabriella Torres > September 23 Anne Boyer & John Latta > October 14 Carla Conforto & Jeffery Morgan > November 18 Andrea Baker & Charles Valle > > To get to The Fall Cafe, take the F or G to Carroll > Street. > The Fall Cafe is located on Smith between Union & > President in Carroll Gardens. > > > Matthew Henriksen > maa@typomag.com > www.typomag.com/burningchair > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > --------------------------------- > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:37:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kristen Gallagher Subject: adjunct teaching in NYC In-Reply-To: <200507271530.j6RFUhWO020072@marionberry.cc.columbia.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi all. I recently moved to NYC and have submitted several letters and CVs to colleges looking for adjunct teaching. What I am VERY curious about now is this: Is there a chance in hell I will get any teaching for this Fall? Is the adjunct market flooded in this town? I have a PhD (and a many people think i have a sparkling personality, though some do not think so). Is there ANY hope for me who wants to teach? What are my ODDS? Thanks deeply for any and all advice, KG ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:54:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kristen Gallagher Subject: new address In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050727113204.049390f8@pop.columbia.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi again for those of you out there who care.... NEW ADDRESS: Kristen Gallagher 65 1/2 Skillman Avenue Bklyn NY 11211 * please note new email address. Thanks. Please write. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:54:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: toronto--international dub poetry festival MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>INFO: toronto--international dub poetry festival =========================================== International Dub Poetry Festival www.dubpoetscollective.com HOT & SPICY: CULTURE-DUBBING ON THE FRONTLINES July 29 – August 1, 2005 KALMUNITY Montreal’s exciting 20-piece band of innovative poets and musicians Sunday, July 31, 2005; 1 – 2 p.m. * Toronto Star Stage, Harbourfront MYSTIC WOMEN OF DUB: DEFIANCE, POWER, REVOLUTION! Alexis O’Hara * Lillian Allen * Afua Cooper * Pamela Mordecai Andrea Thompson * d’bi. Young Sunday, July 31, 2005; 5 – 7 p.m. * Brigantine Room, Harbourfront WORKSHOP & MASTERCLASSES Sharpen your dub craft or explore your potential for dub/sound poetry’s expressive force. With KalmUnity * Clifton Joseph * Afua Cooper * Klyde Broox * Chet Singh d’bi. Young * Andrea Thompson * Alexis O’Hara Workshop: Thursday, July 28, 8 – 11 p.m. * 805 St. Clair West, upstairs Masterclasses: Saturday, July 30; 2:30 p.m., 3:30 p.m., 5:30 p.m. Brigantine Room, Harbourfront and WRITER-IN-RESIDENCE Kaie Kellough workshops * impromptu readings * dialogue July 18 – August 3 * call Dub Poets’ Collective office for appointment: 416.598.4932 Check out the other activities and locations: poetic improv * community musicicans * open jamming: 416.598.4932 info@dubpoetscollective.com www.dubpoetscollective.com FESTIVAL events presented free by Harbourfront Centre, the Dub Poets’ Collective and Ellington’s Music & Café (Season curated by Lillian Allen) ___ Stay Strong "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:21:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Experimental Irish poets? Comments: To: bernstei@BWAY.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Both the SoundEye International Poetry Festival in Cork and Wild Honey = Press have=20 proved invaluable to me in terms of being able to function as a poet, not = only in Ireland but especially in Ireland. Participating in the SoundEye = Festival this year, and also benefiting from the magnificent collection of = books assembled by Simon Cutts and Erika Van Horn, reminded me strongly of = how isolated I once felt in Ireland, maybe unnecessarily. I think of = writer/artists in Ireland now, e.g., Martin Folan, who are outside the = loop aesthetically and professionally except perhaps in community arts, = but who do in fact have company if only they could find it. I still feel, = as I felt 20 years ago, that poetry in Ireland is a narrow tradition and = if one's work is not primarily lyric and recognizably so that one may have = a very hard time getting published. There are lots of other reasons to be = sidelined too: Eavan Boland has articulated very well the movement of = women writers from muse to poet, not without resistance. The answer of = course is to establish one's own press, though my answer was to emigrate. = =20 I all the more admire Trevor and Randolph who did establish presses and = festivals, from which I, among so many, have benefited. It was my good = luck to leave Ireland at a time when the Internet was connecting poets in = a new way; I fell gladly into its nets. The issue of nationality in terms = of poetry is complicated now. I think of myself as an Irish poet insofar = as I try to assess my relationship to the tradition of Irish poetry. I am = very glad to be associated with both SoundEye and Wild Honey. I think both are very significant initiatives historically. On a personal = level, the connection also makes me happy. There is a small sense of = community which I welcome, being much more accustomed to estrangement, for = many reasons including a perhaps poor fit with Irish poetry to begin with, = and immigration. =20 I have mixed feelings about categories, e.g., "Irish poet" or "experimental= /innovative Irish poet." I feel a certain amount of unease using these = terms. They're useful descriptors too though, and I respect the energy = that has gone into their establishment. =20 Charles Bernstein describes Randolph Healy's work with Wild Honey as "a = classic case of a poet with very limited support managing to do major = cultural work." I wholeheartedly agree. Trevor's achievement with = SoundEye, and New Writers Press, is also major. David Bircumshaw seems to = disrespect them but I think them deserving of consummate respect. =20 I feel a large debt of gratitude to both Randolph and Trevor, sharp = admiration of their poetry, and a good deal of pleasure and excitement in = Irish poetry as they, and others, are defining it. Mairead >>> bernstei@BWAY.NET 07/19/05 9:36 AM >>> Trevor Joyce has provided a useful list of Irish poets and poets with Irish connections. Not surprising, since Joyce is a central figure not only in supporting new poetry in Ireland but also connecting poets in Ireland to those with whom they have affinities in the UK and US. It is a good thing that Joyce, Maurice Scully, Randolph Healey, and others, have worked so hard to create these connections, since Irish poets working outside the convenient and narrow markers of dominant styles have a hard time getting their work known in their own country and beyond -- and for that matter finding each other. When I was in Cork recently for the SoundEye poetry festival, it was a pleasure to reconnect with Catherine Walsh, whom we had invited to Buffalo in the early 90s and who remains a favorite poet of mine. I highly recommend her books -- Short Stories, Pitch, and Eatortha & Making Tents. (Walsh co-edits hardPressed Poetry press with her husband, the poet Billy Mills: http://gofree.indigo.ie/~hpp/frame.html.) The good news I heard at Cork is that Wild Honey Press is going to be doing a new, large collection of Walsh's work. This will add to the already substantial set of books published by Randolph Healey at Wild Honey. Healey's work with Wild Honey is a classic case of a poet with very limited support managing to do major cultural work. The Wild Honey website is at http://www.wildhoneypress.com/ I would also recommend Healey's 2002 collection from Salt Publishing, Green 532 -- about which I wrote a few words at the time of publication -- **If poetry can sometimes be the right thing for the right reason, then Randolph Healey's Green 532 has all les mots justes -- just notes -- to shake the tale loose from the tribe and dance with it. Lurking, like a lark, somewhere between "reflection and shadow", these poems are cosmological forays into the "fragile, transitory, precarious" uncertainty that underlies our ability to = respond.** I first encountered the work of Geoffrey Squires at his Cork reading. I immediately picked up his collection from Wild Honey -- Untitled and Other Poems 1975-2002. The line that first caught my ear was "a deep immobility even in things that can be moved" but then, quick upon: "liquidity of noise that one almost see" & "the broken refracted light". These spare yet somehow lushly dark, epistemologically searching poems suggested, at first, a fusion of William Bronk and Merrill Gilfillan. The lines noted are from Landscape & Silences (originally published by Dublin's New Writers' Press in 1996), in which Squires creates a poem that distends time; that is, slows it down so much that it thickens in the ear. Reading further, I am stuck by Squires's uncanny ability to use the lyric as fault line for the intersection of perception and consciousness. Also to note: most of his poems are serial (in the sense of Oppen's Discrete Series); seriality in this work is linked both to Squire's immanent ecopoetics and suffused phenomenology. Trevor's Joyce's list of Irish and Irish related poets posted to Poetics = is at http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0507&L=3Dpoetics&D=3D1&= O=3DD&F=3D&S=3D&P=3D24372 & indeed, CA Conrad is right -- Simon Cutts is a terrific book artist; his "Vinyl" show was the backdrop to the SoundEye Festival. See more at Cutts's and Erica Van Horn's Coracle Press website -- http://www.coracle.ie Charles Bernstein ---------------------- http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/shadowtime/LCF.html http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/new.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:00:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Irving Weiss Subject: Re: adjunct teaching in NYC In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050727113204.049390f8@pop.columbia.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Unfortunately, one of the best times to look for a teaching job at any level is not now but just before Labor Day, i.e., just before schooling anywhere starts, when they discover they have a last minute gap.Good luck to you. Irving Weiss On 7/27/05 11:37 AM, "Kristen Gallagher" wrote: > Hi all. > > I recently moved to NYC and have submitted several letters and CVs to > colleges looking for adjunct teaching. What I am VERY curious about now is > this: Is there a chance in hell I will get any teaching for this Fall? Is > the adjunct market flooded in this town? I have a PhD (and a many people > think i have a sparkling personality, though some do not think so). > > Is there ANY hope for me who wants to teach? > > What are my ODDS? > > Thanks deeply for any and all advice, > > KG ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:56:30 +0200 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: g'day Miekal In-Reply-To: <20050725095501.28107.qmail@web33213.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi mIEKAL AND, from South Tyrol, Italy. Cheers. Back to reading the list, and grateful to Charles Bernstein for Xul Solar,= =20 and some other posts, Anny Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing=20 star!=20 Friedrich Nietzsche=20 On 7/25/05, Pam Brown wrote:=20 >=20 > Dear Miekal, hello, > You wrote - >=20 > >This list is severely deprived of international > input, a lot of us have > >a deep interest in seeing this list become more > international. >=20 > Oh well, I'll try to put in a bit more. I should make > an effort. > Greetings from Sydney, > Pam >=20 > Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ >=20 > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.co= m > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:09:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Britain Won't 'Give One Inch' In Imperial Crusade To Control Iraq's Resources Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Hughes Hopes To Root Out True Picture Of U.S. With Operation Condescending American Assholes.: Nominee Says American Agitprop Will Make Iraqis Forget About Ruthless Theft And Destruction Of Their Country.: State Department's Office Of Cultural Hegemony Will Flood Middle East With Its Greatest Export---Porn.: Passed Down Hand Job To hand Job: Used CIA 'Masturbation Manuals' Air Dropped On Taliban. Afghani Officials Complain Of Dried Contra Cum; Several Manuals Dripping With DNA Linked To John Negroponte and Elliott Abrams. "Well. Its A Switch from The Customary Blood.": By MARKED ALIEN & EDWARD BERNAYS Blair: Britain Won't 'Give One Inch' To Terrorists In Its 'Imperial Crusade To Control Iraq's Resources." "One Inch is All We Got," Blair Announces.: "What Else Can I Say At This Point. I Don't Want To Queer My Deal With Cheney And Halliburton," Blair Declares.: Blair Unconcerned About Reasons For Bombings Insuring An Unsuccessful Investigation. Bush Says "Bombings Are A Small Price To Pay So We In The West Can Continue To Live Like Kings.": Police Shoot Brazilian In Head Seven Times: "Blimey the bloke was brown like a sand nigger. And he ran when three of our plain clothes men began chasing him with their guns drawn. If he was good Brit. Say a soccer hooligan, eh. He woulda stood his ground and taken his lumps from the bobbies and laughed about it over a pint in hospital," rationalizes Met Police Chief Ian Blair. By LIMEY PISSANT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:02:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: Please note Harriet Zinnes has a new email address effective immediately Comments: To: nancy.kuhl@yale.edu, info@nyartsmagazine.com, newswire@catranslation.org, fulcrum_annual@hotmail.com, now@now.org, Tess_O'Dwyer@Whitney.org, mgsohara@yahoo.com, dennis@djerassi.org, org_crev@orgmail.uchicago.edu, Orion@Pullman.com, pierian@pipeline.com, parini@jaguar.middlebury.edu, patricia@nyartsmagazine.com, pbc1@psu.edu, peggyzoe@Sprynet.com, pen@pen.org, Pentranscom@cs.com, perloff@LELAND.STANFORD.EDU, Peter.Cudmore@Blueyonder.co.uk, Inquirer.Books@phillynews.com, philn@KandaSoft.com, mp25@st-andrews.ac.uk, editor@fulcrumpoetry.com, pinggao@hotmail.com, kinsellaj@kenyon.edu, poetryetc2@listbot.com, poetics@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU, poetnews@poets.org, don@poems.com, savpny@hotmail.com, poetry@WILDHONEYPRESS.COM, susan@susanschwalb.com, rseiferle45501@earthlink.net, service@e-flux.com, sfelix@ku.edu, shankariR@Mail.CCSU.edu, DaJoShap@aol.com, Ssikander@aol.com, CSflash@earthlink.net, smallpress@ccac-art.edu, smith948@MAIL.CR.DUQ.EDU, staff@poems.com, stamminen@mail.wesleyan.edu, skriva@earthlinks.net, jestein@worldnet.att.net, bruce.bawer@chello.no, stepellis@hotmail.com, Stephanie.Gschwind@colostate.edu, S_M_@ix.netcom.com, Strickla@mail.slc.edu, suantrai@iol.ie, submissions@newhampshirereview.com, Susannah.hollister@Yale.edu, suzanne@suzannemasks.com, todd@toddswift.com, SYule@randomhouse.com, t.dolmatch@verizon.net, ERTABIOS@aol.com, stamminen@wesleyan.edu, teszi@hotmail.com, thepress@NSCAD.ns.ca, pny33@hotmail.com, TNR@zoopress.org, todd@TODDSWIFT.COM, toth@pipeline.com, trevorjoyce@fulbrightweb.org, tupelopress@yahoo.com, doug.barbour@UALBERTA.CA, ukulter@rcn.com, lawrence.upton@britishlibrary.net, valerie@valerieharms.com, shawnvandor@hotmail.com, vangoghsear@noos.fr, vcca@vcca.com, anny.ballardini@tin.it, vvalerie@valerieharms.com, mjw@walkoff.de, Kwalzer@wordtechweb.com, mgwaters@ssu.edu, fwatts@rmwc.edu, webmaster@NewHampshirereview.com, junction@earthlink.net, ralph.wessman@forestrytas.com.au, whitebox@earthlink.net, whrev@yahoo.com, guniter@earthlink.net, patricia.willis@yale.edu, Guniter@earthlink.net, kinoidiot@yahoo.com, WOM-PO@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, wom-po@listserv.muohio.edu, miawood@camintel.com, EstherAllen@cs.com, yaddo@YADDO.ORG, teszin@hotmail.com, DZane72176@aol.com, zendadanyc@earthlink.net, piano_ren@yahoo.com, robsebzin@hotmail.com, azinnes@mindspring.com, a2ztess@yahoo.com, AGZinnes@hotmail.com, Zinnes@iris.econ.umd.edu, jzinnes@email.msn.com, zinnes@iris.econ.umd.edu, hzucker@oakland.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Whom It May Concern, Please note my email address has changed effective immediately. Emails sent to my AOL address will no longer be received by me. Since AOL does not allow useful messages to this effect I am forced to send you notice of my new address in this manner. The new email address is: hzinnes@rcn.com Thank you for updating your address books accordingly. Harriet ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 21:28:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: creative writing teaching position in New Jersey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wanted to see if there is anyone out there interested in applying for an adjuct creative writing teaching position at The College of New Jersey. The teaching load is two courses, both 200 level creative writing, which covers poetry and fiction. Since this is (unfortunately) an adjunct position, the money isn't great at all, but the students are very good. The same position will also be available in the spring. The college is in Ewing NJ--about 40 minutes from Philly and about an hour and a half from NYC by train. I believe the position is advertised on the Chronicle of Higher Ed web page and the AWP web page. The deadline is fast approaching, but if you are interested in more info, drop me a line backchannel! All best, Catie Rosemurgy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:22:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: dbcinema v0.3 In-Reply-To: <000001c592a1$2dcfa4e0$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in the sort of art i do, i have to do too much work: graphics, writing, programming, animation, html, sound, etc. also, if you load a web piece up with lots of graphics and so on, it takes forever to download before it starts. so i'm trying to make an engine for visuals i can use in other pieces that consists only of text/code. let it go and find the pictures. to mess up with algorithms. currently there is more db than cinema in it. yes, slideshow at this point. but the idea is to eventually do something different from slideshow. i'm thinking this db/cinema approach can combine the strength of generative computer graphics' *abstraction* with the representational, ie, the search is on particular concepts. google will return just black and white or just grayscale images, among other options. good for masking. go get those first and then use them as masks, say. and process the masks, also. so images emerging from other images, images enclosed within other images, images emerging from the abstract, disappearing into the abstract, the abstract disappearing into the representational. dynamic. that's the 'goal'. and have the images relevantly representational mostly though leave room for the unpredictably associative. but this is v0.3. ya, more like dbslideshow at the mo. ja > Dlightfull > Great work jim > Wow > So what we type gets fed to search engine > it asks google to get images > then loads them as a slideshow. > Is that right? > > Enjoyed playing with it a lot,very clever > > A googlism with images sort of. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 05:21:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Re: creative writing teaching position in New Jersey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Catherine Daly wrote: >Just wanted to see if there is anyone out there interested in applying >for >an adjuct creative writing teaching position at The College of New >Jersey. >The teaching load is two courses, both 200 level creative writing, which >covers poetry and fiction. Since this is (unfortunately) an adjunct >position, the money isn't great at all, but the students are very good. >The same position will also be available in the spring. > >The college is in Ewing NJ--about 40 minutes from Philly and about an >hour >and a half from NYC by train. I believe the position is advertised on >the >Chronicle of Higher Ed web page and the AWP web page. The deadline is >fast >approaching, but if you are interested in more info, drop me a line >backchannel! > >All best, > >Catie Rosemurgy > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:28:12 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jorispierre Subject: New NOMADICS blog posts Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Check out these recent posts on Pierre Joris' NOMADICS blog: Artaud & Rodez, Proposal for a Monument The Last Occitan Butcher Stall Pass a Brother some Hot Sauce Occitan Festival in Rodez Artaud & I Nomadizing again ================================================= "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:43:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Tom Savage's blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom, What is the blog address? where you say 'click here," there is no connection to your blog. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:13:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: kari edwards Subject: Sign the Petition - condemning the execution of 2 Iranian gay boys Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit please forward. Dear friends: The chairman of COC Netherlands started a petition concerning the execution of 2 Iranian gay boys. You can sign it here: http://www.petitiononline.com/1021ir/petition.html thank you kari ps. I do apologize if you receive this on more than once list. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:34:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: IMPROVISATIONS BY VERNON FRAZER IS NOW IN PRINT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IMPROVISATIONS is now available through Amazon.com at a 34% = pre-publication discount and free shipping. To access the page, go to = http://www.amazon.com/ and insert 0974527017, the book's ISBN number, in = Amazon's search engine. I just did it and the book is listed there.=20 Vernon Frazer BACK COVER BLURBS Vernon Frazer's relentless pursuit of truth is inspiring. Improvisations = commands our attention. It is difficult to recognize a landmark work in = a landscape of hype and craftsmanship, but Frazer's embrace and = reconciliation of the conflicts between poetry and language result in a = musical and visual harmony that other poets have long neglected or = sought with less success. Improvisations is a work to learn from and to = praise without hesitation. - Michael Rothenberg Through its sectional appearances Improvisations has consistently = offered its readers a dizzying flight across textual geographies and = social aporia. Now we can encounter and engage its full monumentality as = a vast text whose verbal excess and vertiginous typographic variations = mark a stunning moment in the history of gestural poetics. It is a true = comment on what it is to not only live modernity but to actively engage = it. - Steve McCaffery Improvisations will take its place in the modernist, postmodernist and = alternative pantheon of masterpieces. Vernon Frazer presents us with a = 'new physics' of poetic structure. It is not contingent upon any = preconceptions of what poetry 'has been' or 'should be'. Its roots are = far reaching and ubiquitously move rhizomically beneath the surface of = the poetic page. It is there that Improvisations manifests its = multi-dimensional, polyphonic, nonlocal music-of-the-spheres resonances, = echoing down cerebral corridors and unfolding to the reader a = synergistically limitless semantically rich poetic realm.=20 - Ric Carfagna |'|'|' one-one rhythm intensity emergent language & new not form of bop = prosody < the moments the heavy breathing dragging language where it = won't speak but has to > this exciting brilliant igneous volcanism of = insistent world glossolalia harnessed to < what the world said when the = word spoke > you get my DRIFT "spot-time" Wittgenstein < about virtual = language is about virtual particles < what the vacuum speaks > of this = masterpiece: dipping in, constructs of solitons, shore-flecked language = returning "all different" < did anyone write this < sure a machine = DIDN'T "I am sure if language could speak, this is what it would say" > = the _topography_ of language < Said of a word or mineral that solidified = from molten or partly molten material, i.e. from magma; also, applied to = processes leading to, related to, or resulting from the formation of = such words. > shards of CONTINUUM language degree & incessant < you can = get lost in The Big Sky < WHATEVER YOU do READ THIS BOOK > & knot form - Alan Sondheim FROM NICK PIOMBINO'S FAIT ACCOMPLI With this backdrop, the arrival of Vernon Frazer's monumental = *Improvisations* strikes with the sudden rumble and clap of a = thunderbolt, what Edmund Wilson called *the shock of recognition.* At 8 = and 3/4 inches wide, and 10 and 3/4 inches tall, the sprawling page = layout comfortably accomodates this enormous 700 page tome, making this = book one of the longest and largest work yet of visual poetry-combining = nearly every imaginable mesh of print layout and font styles. One would = have to go to a=20 number of books by Johanna Drucker to find work of comparable = typographical complexity. The constant alternation of formats makes = -Improvisations- the most pleasurable book to browse I've seen since = Drucker's work and my favoriate classic of the form, Frank Kuenstler's = haunting, hard-to-find=20 masterpiece, *Lens*. Reading the texts themselves is also consistently = engaging, absorbing and amusing-Vernon Frazer is a performance poet = working with jazz groups and has published several CD's. As Geof Huth = says in his recent interview, there is a fascinating overlap between = the aural and the=20 visual in much vispo work, a synaesthetic quality I find fascinating. = My only regret is, having to carry some groceries home to Brooklyn from = my Manhattan office, along with Frazer's book (I received it very = recently and wanted to write about it immediately) the book is so heavy = I pulled my back out. But it was worth it! The book is available from = *Beneath the Underground* 568 Brittany L, Delray Beach, FL,=20 33446 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:02:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Tom Savage's blog In-Reply-To: <1EBCBB3F.5471BDBD.001942C5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Murat, as I understand it, the address of my blog is Shantideva2.blogspot.com. Yesterday's posting on the listserv was an error which I am currently trying to change. My apologies and gratitude for your interest. Regards, Tom Savage Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote:Tom, What is the blog address? where you say 'click here," there is no connection to your blog. Murat --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:22:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: EDITING: CONTEXTUALIZING OR SOCIALIZING? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed EDITING: CONTEXTUALIZING OR SOCIALIZING? "... editing's first task is to offer context."--Ron Silliman "Editing isn't contextualizing, any more than sculpting is, or curling. Editing is socializing."--Jordan Davis For the next couple of weeks I'll be conducting an experiment in editing. I'll be posting to my blog: http://garysullivan.blogspot.com piecemeal, a book-length manuscript, tentatively titled "Fakebook." I'm asking you to read the poems, prose & plays, and then respond. Ideally with some idea of "the social" or "context" kept in mind, though that's not totally necessary. Responses can be to individual pieces, to groupings, to the overall flow, to problems--aesthetic, political, etc.--raised by the work. Whatever you want. If the experiment takes off (as opposed to "fails miserably"), the final book will be in part a product of this process, and some responses may be incorporated into the published book itself. (With, of course, your permission.) The first eight poems of the book appear, in order, on the blog now. Please respond! Thanks, Gary ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:45:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: PS: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I should point out that Ron and Jordan were talking about editing magazines/journals, and not single-author books. I'm "creatively" applying those thoughts to a single-author project. Thanks! Gary ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:11:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Kotin Subject: new CHICAGO REVIEW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Poetics List --- Elated to announce the publication of Chicago Review 51:1-2 --- Christopher Middleton: Portraits --- The issue includes a special feature on CM along with: POEMS by Gustaf Sobin, Alice Notley, Philip Jenks, Elizabeth Willis, Sarah Mangold, John Wilkinson, Christopher Dewdney, Kevin Connolly, Keston Sutherland, Daniel Borzutzky, Landis Everson, John Kinsella, Danielle Pafunda, Camille Martin, J.S.A. Lowe, Jen Lamb, Tim Earley, Gregory Fraser FICTION by Lisa Jarnot an INTERVIEW with Camille Guthrie (by Eric P. Elshtain) assorted ESSAYS & REVIEWS Please visit our website for information on the issue (and for a preview of forthcoming material --- as well as secure online ordering): http://humanities.uchicago.edu/orgs/review/ And visit Silliman's Blog for a review of the issue: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ * * * * As a special offer to list members, we're offering a FREE book from FLOOD EDITIONS with the purchase of a subscription for two-years (or more). Two-year subscriptions start at $32 --- please visit our website to order --- and note your book of choice in the notes / instructions field on the online order form. The books on offer are below --- offer expires August 15th. * * * * new BOOKS from FLOOD EDITIONS [http://www.floodeditions.com/] Merrill Gilfillan, Undanceable With exuberance and economy, Merrill Gilfillan's Undanceable evokes the landscape of the American West through the geographic word. Place names, the texture of speech, and a certain aroma of nature permeate these pages. Ever alert to unforeseen connections, Gilfillan follows both eye and ear, his poems unfolding at the pace of consciousness. A faint breeze in the old swallow dens. A man mounts a mare. And the roughlegs, maculate riders, imperial boreal tilt and tack, wiser than owls, drift disdainfully south. -- Ronald Johnson, Radi os First published in 1977, Ronald Johnson's Radi os revises the first four books of Paradise Lost by excising words, discovering a modern and visionary poem within the seventeenth-century text. As the author explains, "To etch is 'to cut away,' and each page, as in Blake's concept of a book, is a single picture." With God and Satan crossed out, Radi os reduces Milton's Baroque poem to elemental forces. In this retelling of the Fall, song precipitates from chaos, sight from fire: "in the shape / as of / above the / rose / through / rose / rising / the radiant sun." In his afterword, Guy Davenport comments: "Radi os is a meditation, first of all, on grace. It finds in Milton's poems those clusters of words which were originally a molecular intuition of the complex harmony of nature whereby eyesight loops back to its source in the sun, the earth, the tree, our cousin animals, the spiralling galaxies, and mysteriously to the inhuman black of empty space." -- Jennifer Moxley, Often Capital First published as two separate chapbooks in 1995 and 1996, Often Capital explores the tensions between political commitment and personal desire. Moxley draws in part on the love letters of the Polish radical Rosa Luxemburg in searching out a habitable space for resistance. As she writes in an afterword to this volume, "In my researches I mistook my title, Often Capital - a banal dictionary designation - as a description of, to use William Godwin's phrase, 'things as they are.' Yes, often capital I thought, but thankfully not always." Moxley employs techniques of collage and juxtaposition as well as narration to sound her subject. Yet the lean, sonorous lines that result leap out of any categorical dichotomies: "our imagined finish line / is the end of reason, the irresistible tantalization / of presence, lips pressed together open / to eat..." * * * * Yours, Josh Kotin Editor CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/orgs/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 02:23:06 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: dbcinema v0.3 In-Reply-To: <000001c592a1$2dcfa4e0$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you make one to fetch sound files rather than image files. Wow "welcome ladies and gentlemen you are tuned to mood-radio, just type in = how you're feeling and let mood-radio do it for you" komninos zervos homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of K Zervos |||Sent: Wednesday, 27 July 2005 9:49 PM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: Re: dbcinema v0.3 ||| |||Dlightfull |||Great work jim |||Wow |||So what we type gets fed to search engine |||it asks google to get images |||then loads them as a slideshow. |||Is that right? ||| |||Enjoyed playing with it a lot,very clever ||| |||A googlism with images sort of. ||| |||komninos zervos |||homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos |||broadband experiments: |||http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs ||| ||| ||||||-----Original Message----- ||||||From: UB Poetics discussion group |||[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] ||||||On Behalf Of Jim Andrews ||||||Sent: Wednesday, 27 July 2005 8:17 PM ||||||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU ||||||Subject: dbcinema v0.3 |||||| ||||||dbcinema v0.3 ||||||http://vispo.com/dbcinema |||||| ||||||ja |||||| ||||||-- ||||||No virus found in this incoming message. ||||||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ||||||Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: = 25/07/05 |||||| ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this outgoing message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: = 25/07/05 ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: = 25/07/05 ||| --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 25/07/05 =20 --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 25/07/05 =20 --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.6/59 - Release Date: 27/07/05 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:05:10 -0700 Reply-To: jim@vispo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: dbcinema v0.3 In-Reply-To: <000101c592a1$b6f49780$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Can you make one to fetch sound files rather than image files. Yes. Altavista permits audio and video searches. I don't think there's much data in those databases yet, however. First these things develop around text files. Then image files. Then audio and video. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:02:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Re: dbcinema v0.3 In-Reply-To: <000101c592a1$b6f49780$8e00a8c0@qld.bigpond.net.au> (K. Zervos's message of "Fri, 29 Jul 2005 02:23:06 +1000") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii K Zervos wrote: > Can you make one to fetch sound files rather than image files. > Wow > "welcome ladies and gentlemen you are tuned to mood-radio, just type in how > you're feeling and let mood-radio do it for you" That sounds more like this: http://www.moodlogic.com/ Dan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:02:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: EDITING: CONTEXTUALIZING OR SOCIALIZING? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey i just did a book of collage called fake book and a friend wrote a novel a few yrs back with that name hey how bout unreal book ??? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:09:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: Bowery Poetry Club, Tuesday In-Reply-To: <20050727025810.96298.qmail@web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Matthew Henriksen & David Shapiro BOWERY POETRY CLUB (on Bowery between Bleeker and Houston--F to Second Ave or R/W to 8th) in NYC Tuesday 8/2, 6:00 pm An hour of good poetry and 2/1 drinks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:26:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog's 14th Anniversary Party Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit please forward --------------- the first event of season three of d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press Boog's 14th Anniversary featuring Mitch Highfill in conversation with the editors of Granary Press --Steve Clay and Ugly Duckling Presse (some members of the below editorial collective will appear) --Phil Cordelli --G.L. Ford --Ellie Ga --Yelena Gluzman --Garth Graeper --Ryan Haley --James Hoff --Filip Marinovic --Marisol Limon Martinez --Anna Moschovakis --Julien Poirier --Genya Turovskaya --Matvei Yankelevich Thurs. Aug. 4, 6 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC With music by Major Matt Mason USA There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues www.granarybooks.com www.uglyducklingpresse.org www.olivejuicemusic.com/majormattmasonusa.html For further information: 212-842-BOOG (2664) or editor@boogcity.com Next event: Ducky (Philadelphia), Sept. 8 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:31:18 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: fake... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tuli & d.j spooky both give me a c.d. rashid & moi both profile a .... guy c'est la fake vie... ...dr$n... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:21:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: hey hey Pam Re: g'day Miekal In-Reply-To: <20050725095501.28107.qmail@web33213.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What's going on OverThere that we all should know about? First five things that come to yr mind. Myself, we have 25 young anarcho-circus folks called SPAZ who just pulled into Dreamtime Village where I live, 3 giant brightly colored school buses filled with bodies, instruments & props. A lot of them are interested in living cheaply & easily on the land, making new youth culture, living outside the 9-5 grunt called work. Some of them seem quite interested in poetry, small press publishing, zines & agit prop performance. in the heat of our summer, ~mIEKAL On Jul 25, 2005, at 4:55 AM, Pam Brown wrote: > Dear Miekal, hello, > You wrote - > >> This list is severely deprived of international > input, a lot of us have >> a deep interest in seeing this list become more > international. > > Oh well, I'll try to put in a bit more. I should make > an effort. > Greetings from Sydney, > Pam > > Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > ---- Awkword Ubutronics Amendant Hardiker: patatechnocrat Beliefware that works, since 1987. Email is obsolete. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:38:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Del Ray Cross Subject: SHAMPOO 5th Anniversary Celebration -- August 18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear SHAMPOO friend, This is to happily inform you that I'm going to host an unprecedented 5th Anniversary SHAMPOO Celebration and Reading on: Thursday, August 18 at 6:30pm at GalleryOne San Francisco Mezzanine Level of One Embarcadero Center=20 (same building as Embarcadero Cinema) on the corner of Battery and Clay Streets Expect to hear some poetry from Alli Warren, Bill Berkson, Brent Cunningham= , Cedar Sigo, Kevin Killian, Kit Robinson, Leslie Scalapino, Ronald Palmer,= Stephanie Young, and more. Please join us if you are in the Bay Area. If you're not able to be here, = thanks again for keeping SHAMPOO on the shelves for 5 fantastic years! Spread the word -- and stay tuned for issue 25 coming in September! Hygienically yours, Del Ray Cross, Editor SHAMPOO clean hair / good poetry www.ShampooPoetry.com (if you'd rather I remove you from this SHAMPOO list, please let me know) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 07:01:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Sinatra Poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TWVzIGFtaXMgLSB0aGUgY2hhaXIgb2Ygb3VyIEVuZ2xpc2ggZGVwdC4gaXMgcHV0dGluZyB0b2dl dGhlciBhbiBhbnRob2xvZ3kgb2YgcG9lbXMgaGF2aW5nIHRvIGRvIHdpdGggRnJhbmsgU2luYXRy YSwgc28gaWYgeW91IGhhdmUgc29tZXRoaW5nIG9yIGtub3cgb2Ygc29tZXRoaW5nLCBzZW5kIHdv cmsvd29yZCBhbG9uZyB0byBHaWwgR2lnbGlvdHRpIDxHaWdsaW90dGlAbWFpbC5jY3N1LmVkdT4u IEZlZWwgZnJlZSB0byBtZW50aW9uIHRoYXQgeW91IGhlYXJkIGFib3V0IGhpcyBlbmRlYXZvciBm cm9tIG1lLiANCiANCkFsbCBiZXN0LA0KIA0KUmF2aQ0KZWQuLCBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmRydW5rZW5i b2F0LmNvbSANCg0KCSANCg0K ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 06:07:45 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Bloom on Whitman in the WSJ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As always, Harold Bloom is o'er the top in today's Wall Street Urinal (even tho I think I like Whitman far more than he). Ron Whitman's America By HAROLD BLOOM July 29, 2005; Page A12 If you are American, then Walt Whitman is your imaginative father and mother, even if, like myself, you have never composed a line of verse. You can nominate a fair number of literary works as candidates for the secular Scripture of the United States. They might include Melville's "Moby-Dick," Twain's "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn," and Emerson's two series of "Essays" and "The Conduct of Life." None of those, not even Emerson's, are as central as the first edition of "Leaves of Grass," whose 150th anniversary we now mark. Whitman, the American bard, our Homer and our Milton, broke the new road for the New World. D.H. Lawrence, alternately furious at Whitman and in thrall to him, saw his precursor as the poet of the Evening Land, sharing in Melville's litany for the doom of "the white race." The 20th century's dominant American writer, Faulkner, carried on from Melville in what now can be read as a tetralogy: "As I lay Dying," "The Sound and the Fury," "Light in August," and "Absalom, Absalom!" Whitman's true heirs at home included T.S. Eliot's "The Waste Land," Hart Crane's "The Bridge," and Wallace Stevens's "The Auroras of Autumn." Abroad, the catalog is too large for quick compilation: Lawrence, Lorca, Pessoa, Vallejo, Neruda, Borges, Paz are perhaps the most notable. [Walt Whitman] Walt Whitman was the crucial celebrant of what I think we yet will call the American Religion, the momentary fusion of all denominations in an amalgam of Enthusiasm and Gnosticism that marked the beginning of the end of European Protestantism in America, and which began in the Cane Ridge Revival of 1800. The Southern Baptists, Pentecostalists, Mormons, Adventists, and other native strains are ongoing emanations of what began there. Our theologians and prophets of the American Religion include Emerson, Joseph Smith, and Horace Bushnell, among others. The philosopher William James is its psychologist, and Walt Whitman forever will be its poet-prophet, who sings only songs of myself. We now have an American Jesus and an American Holy Spirit, and have largely banished Yahweh, except that he marches as Warrior God, endlessly trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored. Whitman's full aesthetic achievement is still undervalued and misunderstood. He is the greatest artist his nation has brought forth. Indeed, no comparable figure in the arts has emerged in the last 400 years in the Americas: North, Central, South, or the Caribbean. His six major poems: "Song of Myself," "The Sleepers," "Crossing Brooklyn Ferry," and the triad of elegies: "Out of the Cradle Endlessly Rocking," "As I Ebb'd with the Ocean of Life," and "When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd" have their peer only in Milton's "Paradise Lost," in Bach's endless fecundity, in the glory of Michelangelo's Sistine ceiling -- baroque masters of sublimity. To call Whitman, at his strongest, baroque must seem at first paradoxical for a poet who professes to chant "Spontaneous Me," but Whitman is no improviser. His artistry reflects conscious study of his precursors in the language, despite his American nationalist ambivalence toward British tradition. Whitman restores the primal androgyne "Adam early in the morning." He is our Vedas, our Bhagavad-Gita, our Sutras -- and also our Zohar, an esotericist of extraordinary originality. Emerson was Elijah or John the Baptist to Whitman's American Christ. Is not Walt as enigmatic, elusive, evasive, fascinating as the Jesus of Mark's Gospel? Whitman self-published "Leaves of Grass" and sent it unsolicited to Emerson, who responded to the brash and canny self-promoter on 21 July, 1855, that it was -- as a century-and-a-half later it still is -- "the most extraordinary piece of wit & wisdom that America has yet contributed." Emerson continued, "I am very happy in reading it, as great power makes us happy. . . . I give you joy of your free & brave thought. I have great joy in it. I find incomparable things said incomparably well, as they must be. . . . I rubbed my eyes a little to see if this sunbeam were no illusion; but the solid sense of the book is a sober certainty. It has the best merits, namely, of fortifying and encouraging." Emerson invented the American Religion; Whitman incarnated it. Emerson showed his own wit and wisdom in commending Whitman for wit and wisdom rather than for exuberance and democracy. As our greatest American poet, Whitman is the supreme Formalist, though "Formalist poetry" is a redundancy. His art is nuance, delicacy, inventiveness, intricate matching of sound to sense. All poetic form, however newfangled, is necessarily metaphoric, a substitution of figurative for literal. And no poet makes it as impossible for us to know what is figurative and what is literal as Whitman. The more deeply you read him, the more you encounter his suppressed allusiveness, his gathering self-awareness of the complexities of poetic tradition, which he urges himself to usurp. In his battle for self-reliance, he remains Shakespearean and High Romantic, as much a Wordsworthian as Emerson himself. The poet James Wright celebrated "the old man, Walt Whitman" less for his famous dialectic of Myself and the Real Me or Me Myself than for his "delicacy" of poetic form. The delicate, unknowable soul was the greater mystery for Whitman, as it was for Emerson, who summarized for them both, in "The Over-Soul," "The soul looketh steadily forwards, creating a world before her, leaving worlds behind her." And, more enigmatically, "The soul knows only the soul." Whitman's prime trope is not the vital Myself or its homoerotic double, Me/Myself, but the fourfold Soul, the haunting, immemorial litany: Night, Death, the Mother, the Sea. This ancient, universal metaphor he rendered as peculiarly American, by reasserting the power of his poetic mind over the universe of death. Whitman, the American Jesus, longed for the day, resurrection, the father, the shoreline, and out of this longing created the poem of our climate that James Wright named the Shore-Ode. Whitman's elegies for the self are our American answer to Wordsworth's English Romantic Crisis-Ode, to Wordsworth's "Intimations of Immortality . . . ," Coleridge's "Dejection: an Ode," Shelley's "Ode to the West Wind," and Keats's great odes. Whitman is darker than they. To the British romantics, experiential loss is compensated by imaginative gain; to us as to Emerson, echoing Lear, "Nothing is got for nothing," echoing Lear to Cordelia: "Nothing will come of nothing . . . ." Like Elijah and John the Baptist, the bard of "Leaves of Grass" also "gets out" into the Wilderness, but it is a way station only, and wildness is anything but formless: this new American poetry's paradigm is the King James Bible, with nuances of William Tyndale and Miles Coverdale, geniuses of translation whose stylistic sublimity is equaled in English only by Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Blake, Wordsworth, and Whitman. Whitman's highest art is Exodus, the metaphor of "get thee out from" Ur of the Chaldees or from Egypt into the promised land of a still undiscovered America. While Walt does keep shouting "Kosmos!" I cannot locate New Age Cosmic Consciousness in him. The early notebook fragments contain the seedbed of this getting-out. It is a Resurrection: In vain were nails driven through my hands./ I remember my crucifixion and bloody coronation/ I remember the mockers and the buffeting insults/ The sepulcher and the white linen have yielded me up/ I am alive in New York and San Francisco,/ Again I tread the streets after two thousand years./ Not all the traditions can put vitality in churches/ They are not alive, they are cold mortar and brick,/ I can easily build as good, and so can you: -- / Books are not men -- Whitman finally won over even the aging Henry James, who in his youth had given a bad review to "Drum-Taps." The American public, the brash young Henry insisted then, would reject Whitman in the name of their higher culture. Later, and much wiser, the master of the American novel would ask that "Lilacs" be read aloud to him, and wept (as I do) at the magnificence of our greatest poem's closing harmonies: Yet each to keep and all, retrievements out of the night,/ The song, the wondrous chant of the gray-brown bird,/ And the tallying chant, the echo arous'd in my soul,/ With the lustrous and drooping star with the countenance full of woe,/ With the holders holding my hand nearing the call of the bird,/ Comrades mine and I in the midst, and their memory ever to keep, for the dead I loved so well,/ For the sweetest, wisest soul of all my days and lands -- and this for his dear sake,/ Lilac and star and bird twined with the chant in my soul,/ There in the fragrant pines and the cedars dusk and dim. Its more than Tennysonian organ tonalities are the antithetical completions of the confident simplicity that opens itself to us in 1855: I celebrate myself,/ And what I assume, you shall assume,/ For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you./ I loafe and invite my soul,/ I lean and loafe at my ease . . . . observing a spear of summer grass. Though Whitman later denied it, Emerson made the first "Leaves of Grass" possible. Emerson credited Whitman with the "Appalachian enlargement" of our literature. "As sane as the sun" was one of Whitman's final tributes to Emerson. My own favorite among Whitman's anecdotes is of his last visit to the then senile Emerson. The greatest of our poets so stationed his chair that he could stare fully at the benign countenance of his mentor, and each sat silently, Whitman in loving reverie, Emerson in the tragic solitude of an Alzheimer's victim. It was the final act in a grand drama of influence that is still ongoing in our literary culture. Mr. Bloom is Sterling Professor of Humanities at Yale. This essay is adapted from his introduction to "Leaves of Grass (July, 1855 ed.)," just published by Penguin Classics. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:34:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: excerpt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed FAITH: Let go of me, Baldilocks, I got GLITTER fever! Cough! Rasberry swirlz ... sody-pop dreams. I'm duckie crazy in the summer bliss of this chocolate bumble bee wonder! This is MY rainbow fantasy, MY star dusted misty hopes. Fuckin' vanilla candles. Red fuckin' tulips, pink fuckin' drink. Quote takes a long hard drag on her cigarette, which has been out since 1976 unquote. Kiwi sparklez ... DICK [He wears a white suit covered with graffiti.]: New in town, right? You got that new-in-town look. Dangerous part of town this time of night for a young lady ... by herself. FAITH: My kiwi dreams are a crazy monkey with my yummy blue sugar kisses from tootie pop lips. DICK: Mm-hmm. Lot of people down here try'n take advantage of a situation like that. FAITH: Well, I got a lot of lilacs. See: http://garysullivan.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:08:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Antic View blog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Antic View, a blog where Allen Bramhall & Jeff Harrison interview each other: http://anticview.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 07:45:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: job in NJ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List: I forwarded the job in NJ for Catie Rosemurgy. I have not been to NJ in years. I have never lived or taught in NJ. I have no knowledge about the job. I don't even have a job. Look in AWP or the Chronicle or look up Catie Rosemurgy as the posting clearly stated. All best, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net that's "Pacific" bell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:40:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Mazer Subject: Fwd: ** Team Spicer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_197.43b426f3.301b99e2_boundary" --part1_197.43b426f3.301b99e2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_197.43b426f3.301b99e2_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1089526928==_ma============" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Greetings, We've convinced poet Landis Everson to come up from his digs in sunny San Luis Obispo to give what might well be his first public poetry reading in the Bay Area since he last read for the Poetry Center in November 1956. Landis was close friends with Jack Spicer, Robin Blaser, Robert Duncan, et al, discovered a gift for poetry in that milieu (he, Spicer, & Blaser shared a sunday poetry group in 1960, to which Duncan was dis-invited!) and was greatly admired by all of them. His last published work of that era, following a pamphlet Postcard from Eden published by James Herndon, was in Locus Solus in 1962, John Ashbery & Harry Mathews's elegant & hefty magazine published in Paris. After Spicer died and Robin moved to Vancouver, Landis stopped writing poetry. He felt he'd lost his audience. Years went by, as they say, until recently, while working on what would become a terrific Berkeley Renaissance feature for Fulcrum magazine*, young Boston poet Ben Mazer re-discovered Landis Everson & his poetry. When Mazer appeared and got interested in Everson as a poet, Landis started writing again, and he's now written some 200 poems in the past few years, which are getting published all over the place. While we await a future collection of the poetic works of Landis Everson, he will be appearing this fall in San Francisco, Saturday October 29th, 7:30 pm at the Unitarian Center, 1187 Geary (at Franklin), sponsored by the Poetry Center. I've invited Kevin Killian to present on that evening, along with others working with that material, some of Jack Spicer's unpublished works, to set the stage for Landis. Kevin proposed a world premier reading of Spicer's play Young Goodman Brown. I suggested that the play be bracketed by a few of Spicer's lost-and-found poems, maybe a letter or two. It'll be Halloween --or close-- & Hawthorne's tale of shattered innocence, dark woods, & a witch's sabbath should sit just right. Please put the date down for participating on this special evening. And I thank you in advance. best regards, Steve * Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics, Number Three (Cambridge, MA: 2004), ed. by Philip Nikolayev and Katia Kapovich, ISSN 1534-7877, 510 pp., $15. Orders: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com The Landis Everson feature is also highly recommended, up at Jacket, issue 26 http://www.jacketmagazine.com/26/index.html ======================= Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry END End of page, end of this company---wee notebook kept my mind in hand, let the world stay open to me day after day, words to say, things to be. ~ Robt Creeley -- --part1_197.43b426f3.301b99e2_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:24:56 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Mazer Subject: Fwd: ** Team Spicer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry! This is from Steve Dickison at the San Francisco Poetry Center: Greetings, We've convinced poet Landis Everson to come up from his digs in sunny San Luis Obispo to give what might well be his first public poetry reading in the Bay Area since he last read for the Poetry Center in November 1956. Landis was close friends with Jack Spicer, Robin Blaser, Robert Duncan, et al, discovered a gift for poetry in that milieu (he, Spicer, & Blaser shared a sunday poetry group in 1960, to which Duncan was dis-invited!) and was greatly admired by all of them. His last published work of that era, following a pamphlet Postcard from Eden published by James Herndon, was in Locus Solus in 1962, John Ashbery & Harry Mathews's elegant & hefty magazine published in Paris. After Spicer died and Robin moved to Vancouver, Landis stopped writing poetry. He felt he'd lost his audience. Years went by, as they say, until recently, while working on what would become a terrific Berkeley Renaissance feature for Fulcrum magazine*, young Boston poet Ben Mazer re-discovered Landis Everson & his poetry. When Mazer appeared and got interested in Everson as a poet, Landis started writing again, and he's now written some 200 poems in the past few years, which are getting published all over the place. While we await a future collection of the poetic works of Landis Everson, he will be appearing this fall in San Francisco, Saturday October 29th, 7:30 pm at the Unitarian Center, 1187 Geary (at Franklin), sponsored by the Poetry Center. I've invited Kevin Killian to present on that evening, along with others working with that material, some of Jack Spicer's unpublished works, to set the stage for Landis. Kevin proposed a world premier reading of Spicer's play Young Goodman Brown. I suggested that the play be bracketed by a few of Spicer's lost-and-found poems, maybe a letter or two. It'll be Halloween --or close-- & Hawthorne's tale of shattered innocence, dark woods, & a witch's sabbath should sit just right. Please put the date down for participating on this special evening. And I thank you in advance. best regards, Steve * Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics, Number Three (Cambridge, MA: 2004), ed. by Philip Nikolayev and Katia Kapovich, ISSN 1534-7877, 510 pp., $15. Orders: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com The Landis Everson feature is also highly recommended, up at Jacket, issue 26 http://www.jacketmagazine.com/26/index.html ======================= Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry END End of page, end of this company---wee notebook kept my mind in hand, let the world stay open to me day after day, words to say, things to be. ~ Robt Creeley ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:41:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Fwd: ** Team Spicer In-Reply-To: <197.43b426f3.301b99e2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" wow this is really quite thrilling; thanks to ben, philip/katya, steve, and most of all, landis everson. sometimes it makes all the difference to have someone to write "to." At 10:40 AM -0400 7/29/05, Ben Mazer wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >boundary="============_-1089526928==_ma============" > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >Greetings, > >We've convinced poet Landis Everson to come up from his digs in sunny >San Luis Obispo to give what might well be his first public poetry >reading in the Bay Area since he last read for the Poetry Center in >November 1956. Landis was close friends with Jack Spicer, Robin >Blaser, Robert Duncan, et al, discovered a gift for poetry in that >milieu (he, Spicer, & Blaser shared a sunday poetry group in 1960, to >which Duncan was dis-invited!) and was greatly admired by all of >them. His last published work of that era, following a pamphlet >Postcard from Eden published by James Herndon, was in Locus Solus in >1962, John Ashbery & Harry Mathews's elegant & hefty magazine >published in Paris. After Spicer died and Robin moved to Vancouver, >Landis stopped writing poetry. He felt he'd lost his audience. > >Years went by, as they say, until recently, while working on what >would become a terrific Berkeley Renaissance feature for Fulcrum >magazine*, young Boston poet Ben Mazer re-discovered Landis Everson & >his poetry. When Mazer appeared and got interested in Everson as a >poet, Landis started writing again, and he's now written some 200 >poems in the past few years, which are getting published all over the >place. While we await a future collection of the poetic works of >Landis Everson, he will be appearing this fall in San Francisco, >Saturday October 29th, 7:30 pm at the Unitarian Center, 1187 Geary >(at Franklin), sponsored by the Poetry Center. > >I've invited Kevin Killian to present on that evening, along with >others working with that material, some of Jack Spicer's unpublished >works, to set the stage for Landis. Kevin proposed a world premier >reading of Spicer's play Young Goodman Brown. I suggested that the >play be bracketed by a few of Spicer's lost-and-found poems, maybe a >letter or two. It'll be Halloween --or close-- & Hawthorne's tale of >shattered innocence, dark woods, & a witch's sabbath should sit just >right. > >Please put the date down for participating on this special evening. >And I thank you in advance. > >best regards, >Steve > >* Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics, Number Three >(Cambridge, MA: 2004), ed. by Philip Nikolayev and Katia Kapovich, >ISSN 1534-7877, 510 pp., $15. Orders: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com > >The Landis Everson feature is also highly recommended, up at Jacket, >issue 26 http://www.jacketmagazine.com/26/index.html > >======================= >Steve Dickison, Director >The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives >San Francisco State University >1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 >~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 >http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry > > END > > End of page, > end of this > > company---wee > notebook kept > > my mind in hand, > let the world stay > > open to me > day after day, > > words to say, > things to be. > > > ~ Robt Creeley >-- > >--part1_197.43b426f3.301b99e2_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:52:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: FW: Steve Jobs talk In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Excuse any cross-posting: Judy Coburn kindly forwards this. I am not sure where Steve Jobs gave the talk. It's interesting to know - at least among poets - that, though he doe= s not mention him by name, Jobs, as a student at Reed College in the Sixties= , probably learned calligraphy from Lloyd Reynolds - who also taught Phillip Whalen, Lew Welch and Gary Snyder. (He also taught Sumner Stone who was lon= g in charge of creating typographic forms at Adobe Systems). Amazing how a gringo Zen calligrapher - combined with an amazing college - was the source of such influence on the creation and face of both 20th century poetry and computers. Hats off to both Reynolds and Jobs, a speech that makes me homesick for all the creative fires and lives born of the Sixties. How have we come down so far? Karl Rove, eat my hat! Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com =20 > > grad speech by steve jobs--he really said something. the guy IS a > genius.mjc > >> I am honored to be with you today at your commencement >> > from one of the finest universities in the world. I >> > never graduated from college. Truth be told, this is >> > the closest I've ever gotten to a college graduation. >> > Today I want to tell you three stories from my life. >> > That's it. No big deal. Just three stories. >> > The first story is about connecting the dots. >> > I dropped out of Reed College after the first 6 >> > months, but then stayed around as a drop-in for >> > another 18 months or so before I really quit. So why >> > did I drop out? >> > It started before I was born. My biological mother was >> > a young, unwed college graduate student, and she >> > decided to put me up for adoption. She felt very >> > strongly that I should be adopted by college >> > graduates, so everything was all set for me to be >> > adopted at birth by a lawyer and his wife. Except that >> > when I popped out they decided at the last minute that >> > they really wanted a girl. So my parents, who were on >> > a waiting list, got a call in the middle of the night >> > asking: "We have an unexpected baby boy; do you want >> > him?" They said: "Of course." My biological mother >> > later found out that my mother had never graduated >> > from college and that my father had never graduated >> > from high school. She refused to sign the final >> > adoption papers. She only relented a few months later >> > when my parents promised that I would someday go to >> > college. >> > And 17 years later I did go to college. But I naively >> > chose a college that was almost as expensive as >> > Stanford, and all of my working-class parents' savings >> > were being spent on my college tuition. After six >> > months, I couldn't see the value in it. I had no idea >> > what I wanted to do with my life and no idea how >> > college was going to help me figure it out. And here I >> > was spending all of the money my parents had saved >> > their entire life. So I decided to drop out and trust >> > that it would all work out OK. It was pretty scary at >> > the time, but looking back it was one of the best >> > decisions I ever made. The minute I dropped out I >> > could stop taking the required classes that didn't >> > interest me, and begin dropping in on the ones that >> > looked interesting. >> > It wasn't all romantic. I didn't have a dorm room, so >> > I slept on the floor in friends' rooms, I returned >> > coke bottles for the 5=A2 deposits to buy food with, and >> > I would walk the 7 miles across town every Sunday >> > night to get one good meal a week at the Hare Krishna >> > temple. I loved it. And much of what I stumbled into >> > by following my curiosity and intuition turned out to >> > be priceless later on. Let me give you one example: >> > Reed College at that time offered perhaps the best >> > calligraphy instruction in the country. Throughout the >> > campus every poster, every label on every drawer, was >> > beautifully hand calligraphed. Because I had dropped >> > out and didn't have to take the normal classes, I >> > decided to take a calligraphy class to learn how to do >> > this. I learned about serif and san serif typefaces, >> > about varying the amount of space between different >> > letter combinations, about what makes great typography >> > great. It was beautiful, historical, artistically >> > subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I >> > found it fascinating. >> > None of this had even a hope of any practical >> > application in my life. But ten years later, when we >> > were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all >> > came back to me. And we designed it all into the Mac. >> > It was the first computer with beautiful typography. >> > If I had never dropped in on that single course in >> > college, the Mac would have never had multiple >> > typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts. And since >> > Windows just copied the Mac, its likely that no >> > personal computer would have them. If I had never >> > dropped out, I would have never dropped in on this >> > calligraphy class, and personal computers might not >> > have the wonderful typography that they do. Of course >> > it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward >> > when I was in college. But it was very, very clear >> > looking backwards ten years later. >> > Again, you can't connect the dots looking forward; you >> > can only connect them looking backwards. So you have >> > to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your >> > future. You have to trust in something - your gut, >> > destiny, life, karma, whatever. This approach has >> > never let me down, and it has made all the difference >> > in my life. >> > My second story is about love and loss. >> > I was lucky - I found what I loved to do early in >> > life. Woz and I started Apple in my parents garage >> > when I was 20. We worked hard, and in 10 years Apple >> > had grown from just the two of us in a garage into a >> > $2 billion company with over 4000 employees. We had >> > just released our finest creation - the Macintosh - a >> > year earlier, and I had just turned 30. And then I got >> > fired. How can you get fired from a company you >> > started? Well, as Apple grew we hired someone who I >> > thought was very talented to run the company with me, >> > and for the first year or so things went well. But >> > then our visions of the future began to diverge and >> > eventually we had a falling out. When we did, our >> > Board of Directors sided with him. So at 30 I was out. >> > And very publicly out. What had been the focus of my >> > entire adult life was gone, and it was devastating. >> > I really didn't know what to do for a few months. I >> > felt that I had let the previous generation of >> > entrepreneurs down - that I had dropped the baton as >> > it was being passed to me. I met with David Packard >> > and Bob Noyce and tried to apologize for screwing up >> > so badly. I was a very public failure, and I even >> > thought about running away from the valley. But >> > something slowly began to dawn on me - I still loved >> > what I did. The turn of events at Apple had not >> > changed that one bit. I had been rejected, but I was >> > still in love. And so I decided to start over. >> > I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting >> > fired from Apple was the best thing that could have >> > ever happened to me. The heaviness of being successful >> > was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner >> > again, less sure about everything. It freed me to >> > enter one of the most creative periods of my life. >> > During the next five years, I started a company named >> > NeXT, another company named Pixar, and fell in love >> > with an amazing woman who would become my wife. Pixar >> > went on to create the worlds first computer animated >> > feature film, Toy Story, and is now the most >> > successful animation studio in the world. In a >> > remarkable turn of events, Apple bought NeXT, I >> > retuned to Apple, and the technology we developed at >> > NeXT is at the heart of Apple's current renaissance. >> > And Laurene and I have a wonderful family together. >> > I'm pretty sure none of this would have happened if I >> > hadn't been fired from Apple. It was awful tasting >> > medicine, but I guess the patient needed it. Sometimes >> > life hits you in the head with a brick. Don't lose >> > faith. I'm convinced that the only thing that kept me >> > going was that I loved what I did. You've got to find >> > what you love. And that is as true for your work as it >> > is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large >> > part of your life, and the only way to be truly >> > satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And >> > the only way to do great work is to love what you do. >> > If you haven't found it yet, keep looking. Don't >> > settle. As with all matters of the heart, you'll know >> > when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it >> > just gets better and better as the years roll on. So >> > keep looking until you find it. Don't settle. >> > My third story is about death. >> > When I was 17, I read a quote that went something >> > like: "If you live each day as if it was your last, >> > someday you'll most certainly be right." It made an >> > impression on me, and since then, for the past 33 >> > years, I have looked in the mirror every morning and >> > asked myself: "If today were the last day of my life, >> > would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And >> > whenever the answer has been "No" for too many days in >> > a row, I know I need to change something. >> > Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most >> > important tool I've ever encountered to help me make >> > the big choices in life. Because almost everything - >> > all external expectations, all pride, all fear of >> > embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away >> > in the face of death, leaving only what is truly >> > important. Remembering that you are going to die is >> > the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you >> > have something to lose. You are already naked. There >> > is no reason not to follow your heart. >> > About a year ago I was diagnosed with cancer. I had a >> > scan at 7:30 in the morning, and it clearly showed a >> > tumor on my pancreas. I didn't even know what a >> > pancreas was. The doctors told me this was almost >> > certainly a type of cancer that is incurable, and that >> > I should expect to live no longer than three to six >> > months. My doctor advised me to go home and get my >> > affairs in order, which is doctor's code for prepare >> > to die. It means to try to tell your kids everything >> > you thought you'd have the next 10 years to tell them >> > in just a few months. It means to make sure everything >> > is buttoned up so that it will be as easy as possible >> > for your family. It means to say your goodbyes. >> > I lived with that diagnosis all day. Later that >> > evening I had a biopsy, where they stuck an endoscope >> > down my throat, through my stomach and into my >> > intestines, put a needle into my pancreas and got a >> > few cells from the tumor. I was sedated, but my wife, >> > who was there, told me that when they viewed the cells >> > under a microscope the doctors started crying because >> > it turned out to be a very rare form of pancreatic >> > cancer that is curable with surgery. I had the surgery >> > and I'm fine now. >> > This was the closest I've been to facing death, and I >> > hope its the closest I get for a few more decades. >> > Having lived through it, I can now say this to you >> > with a bit more certainty than when death was a useful >> > but purely intellectual concept: >> > No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to >> > heaven don't want to die to get there. And yet death >> > is the destination we all share. No one has ever >> > escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death >> > is very likely the single best invention of Life. It >> > is Life's change agent. It clears out the old to make >> > way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday >> > not too long from now, you will gradually become the >> > old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but >> > it is quite true. >> > Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone >> > else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is >> > living with the results of other people's thinking. >> > Don't let the noise of other's opinions drown out your >> > own inner voice. And most important, have the courage >> > to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow >> > already know what you truly want to become. Everything >> > else is secondary. >> > When I was young, there was an amazing publication >> > called The Whole Earth Catalog, which was one of the >> > bibles of my generation. It was created by a fellow >> > named Stewart Brand not far from here in Menlo Park, >> > and he brought it to life with his poetic touch. This >> > was in the late 1960's, before personal computers and >> > desktop publishing, so it was all made with >> > typewriters, scissors, and polaroid cameras. It was >> > sort of like Google in paperback form, 35 years before >> > Google came along: it was idealistic, and overflowing >> > with neat tools and great notions. >> > Stewart and his team put out several issues of The >> > Whole Earth Catalog, and then when it had run its >> > course, they put out a final issue. It was the >> > mid-1970s, and I was your age. On the back cover of >> > their final issue was a photograph of an early morning >> > country road, the kind you might find yourself >> > hitchhiking on if you were so adventurous. Beneath it >> > were the words: "Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish." It was >> > their farewell message as they signed off. Stay >> > Hungry. Stay Foolish. And I have always wished that >> > for myself. And now, as you graduate to begin anew, I >> > wish that for you. >> > Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish. >> > Thank you all very much. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:31:31 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: bloom... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit like if even never composed a a line of verse song..my...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:33:16 -0400 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: bloom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit whitman first stop end of line my..song...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 18:25:08 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Roberts Papers Match FBI Profile Of Serial Killer Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Al-Qaeda Says it Will Cease Attacks If U.S. Turns Over 14 U.S. Officials For Public Execution And Withdraws Troops From Iraq And Afghanistan: Referendums Begun In 42 States Heavily Support Al-Qaeda Plan: Americans Enthusiastic, Anxious To Turn Over Even More Of Their Traiterous Kleptocracy.: By JEFFEY LUBE Early on, Roberts Leaned To The Right But His Folks Refused To Take Him To An Orthopedist.: Roberts Papers Match FBI Profile Of Serial Killer.: Frist Predicts Easy Confirmation: "Every Committee Member Will See A Little Of Themselves In This Nominee.": Nominee Says "If You're Going To Be Corporate Power's Bitch, It Helps On Occasion To Dress Like A Woman And Cruise The Bars Around Wall Street.": By BOWAND 'I Helped Murder Gary Webb' KURTZY They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:23:09 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Hi Miekal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: hey hey Pam Re: g'day Miekal >What's going on OverThere that we all should know >about? First five >things that come to yr mind. Hello again Miekal, The Minister for Immigration has finally allowed refugee children to leave the 'detention centres' (euphemism for 'prisons') they've been locked up in for years - to live 'in the community' but that doesn't mean to live freely. They're still accompanied by 'security' when going to the supermarket with their guardians and so on. The Sydney sun is shining - the sailing club is very active down at the bay not far from where I live - you wouldn't know it was a time of war. The price of Castello blue vein cheese seems to have doubled - my partner just came in from shopping. There are some readings on next week - Leonard Schwartz is in Sydney- he's reading on Thursday night, I'm reading with Rudi Krausmann on Tuesday night. And the fifth thing that comes to my slow Saturday morning mind is that none of this is much what anyone needs to know - sort of like a really b-a-d blog Your place sounds like 1975 to me. Cheerio from Pam Myself, we have 25 young anarcho-circus folks called SPAZ who just pulled into Dreamtime Village where I live, 3 giant brightly colored school buses filled with bodies, instruments & props. A lot of them are interested in living cheaply & easily on the land, making new youth culture, living outside the 9-5 grunt called work. Some of them seem quite interested in poetry, small press publishing, zines & agit prop performance. in the heat of our summer, ~mIEKAL On Jul 25, 2005, at 4:55 AM, Pam Brown wrote: > Dear Miekal, hello, > You wrote - > >> This list is severely deprived of international > input, a lot of us have >> a deep interest in seeing this list become more > international. > > Oh well, I'll try to put in a bit more. I should make > an effort. > Greetings from Sydney, > Pam > > Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > ---- Awkword Ubutronics Amendant Hardiker: patatechnocrat Beliefware that works, since 1987. Email is obsolete. Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:39:11 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - walt Whitman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ron & Harry, You wrote - >As always, Harold Bloom is o'er the top in today's Wall >Street Urinal >(even tho I think I like Whitman far more than he). > >Ron > >Whitman's America > >By HAROLD BLOOM >July 29, 2005; Page A12 > >If you are American, then Walt Whitman is your imaginative >father and mother, even if, like myself, you have never composed a line of verse. "From: Harry Nudel Subject: bloom... like if even never composed a a line of verse song..my...drn... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:33:16 -0400 From: Harry Nudel Subject: bloom whitman first stop end of line my..song...drn..." I like this stanza from Douglas Rothschild's poem "February 28th, 2001" in "The Poker #6" - At the foot of the brklyn bridge across from Shannon Applegate's apt. yet another park, this one named for Walt Whitman, has been turned, in this case, by the GSA, into an asphalt parking lot, for the GSA. Cherry trees & leaves of grass uprooted, to make room for the westward expansion of the brklyn supreme court; a strange retri- bution for Walt's vigorous support of the Mexican war. All the best, Pam Brown Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ ____________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Try Yahoo! Photomail Beta: Send up to 300 photos in one email! http://au.photomail.mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:45:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: SPACE WALK (LIVE FEED 11:45 EST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2005/04/12/VI200504120113 9.html EVA (extra vehicular activity) with (Major) Thom Donovan and Kyle Schlesinger at Big Orbit, tethered to facing margins . . . floating out to the edges of (between) words. Mantling the antennea. Bright horizons roll through visors. Tile work at the margins. Continents traces stamped into paper. Handrails to stellar. This beautiful station here on Earth, at $6 well worth the walk. Check it out. www.atticusfinch.org JS ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:54:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Murray, Christine" Subject: New on Chris Murray's Texfiles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://texfiles.blogspot.com --poem, "Mission," by Kent Johnson (_Lyric Poetry After Auschwitz_) --review: Chris Daniels reviews Kent Johnson's latest book: _Lyric Poetry After Auschwitz: eleven submissions to the war_ (effing press: 703 W 11th Street # 2, Austin, TX 78701 & = http://www.effingpress.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:23:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Help us find a home for our cats!! In-Reply-To: <200507290401.j6T40jWV012777@b.mx.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I first want to humbly apologize for being so off subject, but we are moving out of the country in Sept. and are desperate to find a home for our cats. if you live within a days or so from the bay area and want rescue two cats check out the link below. thank you so much kari edwards http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/pet/87960747.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:02:43 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: events in australia In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poetry performances @ Brisbane Social Forum 2005=20 Saturday 30 July, 4.00-5.30 pm=20 Words against Warriors=20 Poets Speak Out=20 4 =96 4.45 pm=20 Readings by poets:=20 Willy Bach=20 Tim Collins=20 Tara June Winch=20 Noel Ramiscal=20 Lesley Singh=20 John Tomlinson=20 Sam Wagan Watson (TBC)=20 Andrew Leggett=20 Neurosine=20 Ilana C=20 John Knight=20 =20 4.45 =96 5.30 pm=20 Multimedia Poetry=20 from=20 Synaptic Graffiti Collective=20 Featuring:=20 Sara Moss, Graham Nunn, Mandy Beaumont, Rowan Donovan, Jayne = Fenton-Keane, Stefanie Petrik, Miss Kate, David Stavanger, Amelia Taylor, Kim Downs = and Scart (graphic artist/musician)=20 Find out about the Synaptic Graffiti Collective at: http://synapticgraffiti.net=20 Brisbane Social Forum is on 29=9631 July=20 @ University of Queensland Student Union Complex ,=20 St Lucia (near Schonell Cinema)=20 Tickets: $20 concession/$40 waged/$60 high waged=20 www.brisbanesocialforum.org=20 Sydney=20 Poetry Reading @ Sappho=92s Bookshop=20 51 Glebe Point Road , Glebe=20 Tuesday 2 August 2005=20 6.30 pm Featured readers Pam Brown and Rudi Krausmann=20 with music from Cam Atkins=20 plus=20 An open section with book voucher prize for winner=20 Further information: 9818 5366; info@poetsunion.com=20 Sydney=20 US poet, critic and anthologist Leonard Schwartz at UTS, Thursday 4 = August, 5-7pm=20 Leonard Schwartz is a major figure in contemporary poetry in English, = and an important translator, thinker and writer on cross-cultural poetics.=20 Leonard will be =91in conversation=92 with Peter Minter at UTS on the = afternoon of Thursday, 4 August, and later that evening he will also feature as a reader at the Loft poetry reading.=20 LEONARD SCHWARTZ in conversation with PETER MINTER=20 5 pm Bon Marche (Building 3) Room 210=20 THE LOFT POETRY READINGS=20 Leonard Schwartz, Michael Farrell, Amanda Stewart, Eytan Messiah and = Peter Minter=20 7PM Bon Marche (Building 3) Room 105=20 ALL WELCOME!=20 Sydney =20 Tell Me the Truth About Peace:=20 Through Music and Poetry=20 Monday 15 August=20 7.00 pm=20 The Sydney Peace Foundation and Gleebooks present=20 a night of theatre at the Seymour Centre.=20 Featuring Colin Friels, Phillip Adams, Bob Hawke, Lior, Sydney Soloists, = Ross Edwards, Terri Janke, Paul Goodchild, The Solidarity Choir, Sister=20 Susan Connelly, Aaron McMillan, Emma Worthington-Lees, Steven Smyth,=20 Larissa Behrendt, Ann Marie Skinner, Sydney Childrens Choir, Kuranda = Seyit,=20 and Sam Wagan Watson.=20 People of every generation are crying out to hear stories of hope and reconciliation. All of us are searching for opportunities to overcome = fear and to celebrate respect for a common humanity. Calling on the music and poetry of distant and different centuries and cultures, well known = artists and well loved Australians will celebrate respect for humanity and tell their stories of peace with justice.=20 York Theatre, Seymour Centre Tickets available from Seymour Centre Box Office 9351 7940 $27.60 adult $22.60 Gleeclub members $17.60 concession=20 www.sydneypeacefoundation.org.au=20 2005 Summerland Awards=20 Closing Date 31 August 2005=20 Entries are invited for the Fellowship of Australian Writers = Summerland=92s inaugural competition. The short story section has an open theme, with a maximum of 2,500 words. The poetry section is for traditional rhyming or free verse to a maximum of 80 lines, open theme. First prize of $500.00 = and second prize of $200.00 is awarded in both sections. In addition, the Summerland Trophy will be presented to the best overall entry. Highly Commended and Commended certificates will also be awarded and results = will be published in the Writers Voice and on the FAW website < = www.fawnsw.org.au >. Prize winning entries may be published in an anthology. Entry fee is $6.00 or $25.00 for five entries and no entry form is required . Normal competition conditions apply and for more information, please call 02 = 6624 1933 or email faws@dragonwick.com . Please send entries with cheque or = money order (made payable to FAW Summerland ) to: Summerland Awards, PO Box = 4210 , Goonellabah NSW 2480=20 Heaps happening in WA=20 SPRING POETRY FESTIVAL=20 (Including National Poetry Week)=20 SEPTEMBER 2005, PERTH , WESTERN AUSTRALIA=20 Website: http://thewordisout.net=20 Co-ordinator: Maureen Sexton, mairs54@iinet.net.au .=20 Website/Database Co-ordinator: allan boyd, allanboyd@optusnet.com.au=20 Assistant Coordinator: Frances Macaulay Forde, frances@francesmacaulayforde.com .=20 SPRING POETRY FESTIVAL BEGINS=20 Friday 2 nd =96 7.30 pm , Sub-Verse =96 Reading , Opening Party and = Launch of Spring Poetry Festival , Perth Town Hall , Perth .=20 Saturday 3rd =96 1-4 pm , Poetry On Stickers Workshop , TCH, = Swanbourne.=20 Saturday 3 rd =96 1-3 pm , Poet Tree Workshop : Japanese Poetry 4, PCWC, Joondalup.=20 Sunday 4th =96 1-5 pm, World Poetry - Part One, Masterclass : East meets = West, TCH, Swanbourne.=20 Sunday 4th =96 2-4 pm , Speakers Steps - Reading , Forrest Place , Perth = .=20 Monday 5th =96 7.30 pm , WOW Walking on Water , Reading Brisbane Hotel, Northbridge.=20 Thursday 8th =96 7.30 pm , Voicebox , Reading La Tropicana Caf=E9, = Fremantle.=20 National Poetry Week Begins=20 Friday 9 th -Friday 16 th - Poetry Wall , Display State Library, Northbridge.=20 Friday 9 th -Friday 16 th - Poetry Wall , Display Greenmount Library, Greenmount.=20 Friday 9 th -Friday 16 th =96 Hopetoun Telecentre Poetry Display , = Hopetoun.=20 Friday 9 th - 11am =96 Launch of National Poetry Week , State Library, Northbridge.=20 Friday 9 th -12 noon-1 pm =96 Special Poetry Lunchlines , Reading Edith = Cowan University , Mt Lawley.=20 Friday 9 th -12.30 pm for 1 pm start =96 The Poetry Circle , Workshop Fremantle Arts Centre.=20 Friday 9 th =96 5.30 pm , Poets Nosh Night , TCH, Swanbourne.=20 Friday 9 th -7.30 pm, Sub Verse , Reading Venue TBA=20 Saturday 10 th - 10 am-4 pm , Performance Poetry - Part One , = Masterclass TCH, Swanbourne.=20 Saturday 10 th =96 2-5 pm, Philosopher=92s Caf=E9 Reading =96 Readings, = SLC , Northbridge.=20 Saturday 10 th =96 1-3 pm , Poet Tree Workshop : Prose Poetry 2, PCWC, Joondalup.=20 Saturday 10 th =96 1-4 pm , Detail & Argument : Workshop , KSP, = Greenmount.=20 Sunday 11 th - 9.30 am-1 pm , ArtEquate , Workshop AGWA, Northbridge. = Sunday 11 th =96 2-4 pm , Speakers Steps , Reading Forrest Place, Perth = .=20 Sunday 11 th =96 3-5 pm, Danny Gunzburg=92s Poetry Book launch , = KSP,Greenmount. Monday 12 th -Friday 16 th =96 10 am-4 pm , Poet Trees Installation , = Display , Murray St Mall, Perth .=20 Monday 12th =96 12-1 pm , Poet Trees Installation Aloud , Reading Murray = St Mall, Perth .=20 Monday 12 th =96 2-4 pm , Poets Corner , Reading SLC , Northbridge.=20 Tuesday 13 th =96 12-1 pm , Poet Trees Installation Aloud , Reading = Murray St Mall, Perth .=20 Tuesday 13th =96 2-4 pm , Poets Corner , Reading SLC , Northbridge.=20 Wednesday 14 th =96 12-1 pm , Poet Trees Installation Aloud , Reading = Murray St Mall, Perth .=20 Wednesday 14th =96 2-4 pm , Poets Corner , Reading SLC , Northbridge.=20 Thursday 15 th =96 12-1 pm , Poet Trees Installation Aloud , Reading = Murray St Mall, Perth .=20 Thursday 15th =96 2-4 pm , Poets Corner , Reading SLC , Northbridge.=20 Friday 16 th =96 12-1 pm , Poet Trees Installation Aloud , Reading = Murray St Mall, Perth .=20 Friday 16 th =96 2-4 pm , Poets Corner , Reading SLC , Northbridge.=20 Friday 16th =96 7.30 pm , Sub-Verse , Reading Poetry = Performance/Readings, Perth Town Hall , Perth .=20 Saturday 17th - 9.30 am-1 pm Performance Poetry - Part Two , Masterclass TCH, Swanbourne.=20 Saturday 17 th =96 1-3 pm , Poet Tree Workshop : Poets and Poetry, PCWC, Joondalup .=20 Saturday 17th =96 3.30-8 pm, Poetry Challenge , Recitals = competition/fund raiser Yirra Yaakin Theatre, Perth .=20 Sunday 18 th =96 2-4 pm , Speakers Steps , Reading Forrest Place, Perth = .=20 Sunday 18th =96 11 am , Poets Picnic in the Park , Reading Kings Park .=20 National Poetry Week Ends=20 SPRING POETRY FESTIVAL CONTINUES=20 Friday 23 rd -12.30 pm for 1 pm start =96 The Poetry Circle , Workshop Fremantle Arts Centre.=20 Friday 23 rd =96 7.30 pm , Sub-Verse , Reading Poetry = Performance/Readings, Perth Town Hall .=20 Saturday 24th =96 1-5 pm, World Poetry - Part Two : Masterclass West = meets East, TCH, Swanbourne.=20 Saturday 24 th =96 1-3 pm , Poet Tree Workshop , TBA, PCWC, Joondalup.=20 Saturday 24 th - Hopetoun Poetry in the Park, McCulloch Park , Hopetoun. = sunday 25 th - 11 am-2.30 pm , Getting Serious Workshop : Publishing = Poetry, TCH, Swanbourne.=20 Sunday 25 th =96 2-4 pm , Speakers Steps , Reading Forrest Place, Perth = .=20 Sunday 25th =96 3-5 pm, Sunday at Tom's : Book launch and Reading TCH, Swanbourne.=20 Friday 30 th =96 7.30 pm , Sub-Verse , Reading Closing Party Perth Town = Hall.=20 SPRING POETRY FESTIVAL ENDS=20 OTHER EVENTS IN SEPTEMBER=20 Friday 16 to Sunday 18 September - Sprung Writers Festival , Albany WA . = A weekend of stimulating panel discussions, readings, workshops and = creative word smithing featuring authors from around Australia, including Tim = Winton, John Marsden and Nick Earls. Programs available from mid-August from Vancouver Arts Centre, telephone: 9841 9260. For more information = contact Megan Anderson: meg@iinet.net.au .=20 Friday 29th September to Sunday 2nd - October Under The Southern Cross, Australia =92s National Storytelling Festival , Perth WA .=20 Includes the Poets and Yarnspinners Breakfast, on Sunday 2nd October, 8 = am to 9.30 am . Theme =96 Storytelling on the Edge. Where? =96 Point Walter Recreation and Conference Centre, 1 Stock Rd , Bicton. For more = information contact: Mabel Kaplan at makelka@hotmail.com or on = 0011+61+(0)8+93427150. Or check out the website: = http://www.geocities.com/storyguildwa/festival.html . Acronyms:=20 FAWWA Fellowship of Australian WRITERS WA=20 KSP Katharine Susannah Prichard Writers Centre=20 PCWC Peter Cowan Writers Centre=20 AGWA Art Gallery of Western Australia=20 SLC State Library Caf=E9=20 Organisers : Events have been organised by various groups and = individuals, including Frances Macaulay Forde, Jenny de Garis, Shelly Browning, Fiona = de Garis, Di Lesley, allan boyd, Maureen Sexton, Vivienne Glance, Trisha = Kotai Ewers, Adrian Glamorgan, Barry Parsons, Out Of The Asylum Writing Group, Katharine Susannah Prichard Writers Centre, Fellowship of Australian = Writers of WA, Peter Cowan Writers Centre, TWOT magazine, WOW Walking On Water, Voicebox.=20 =20 Watch you inbox for details of further Poetry Week events around the = country as they come to hand=20 =20 =20 =20 Between Worlds - Ubud Readers and Writers Festival=20 =20 Bali , Indonesia 6-11 October 2005=20 =20 The lush Balinese mountain village of Ubud , home to one of the world's richest cultures, will host the Ubud Writers & Readers Festival from 6 = to 11 October 2005 . Ubud combines unique traditions, magnificent scenery, = warm climate and hospitality. This year=92s dynamic program includes = discussions, debates, lunches, workshops, panels, theatre, dance and jazz. This = year=92s Festival brings together some of the world=92s most exciting writers = from 15 countries, especially the South East Asia region. Michael Ondaatje , Booker Prize winning author of The English Patient will reveal his = magical prose and poetry in a discussion of his life and work . There=92s = something for every style and genre of writing: novels, poetry, zines, plays, = film, hip hop, song lyrics and journalism. There will be sessions on = publishing, editing, erotica, food, activism, religion, culture, language and much = more. See the full program at www.ubudwritersfestival.com=20 =20 The Festival has been organised by the non-profit Saraswati Foundation = for the Arts.=20 =20 For more information: Hal Judge, PR Director=20 Email: halinubud@yahoo.com=20 mobile: 0412 661929=20 =20 =20 Poets Union Inc=20 PO Box 91=20 Balmain NSW 2041=20 PH: +61 02 9818 5366=20 FAX: +61 02 9818 5377=20 EMAIL: info@poetsunion.com=20 WEBSITE: www.poetsunion.com |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND |||Sent: Friday, 29 July 2005 12:21 PM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: hey hey Pam Re: g'day Miekal ||| |||What's going on OverThere that we all should know about? First five |||things that come to yr mind. ||| |||Myself, we have 25 young anarcho-circus folks called SPAZ who just |||pulled into Dreamtime Village where I live, 3 giant brightly colored |||school buses filled with bodies, instruments & props. A lot of them |||are interested in living cheaply & easily on the land, making new = youth |||culture, living outside the 9-5 grunt called work. Some of them seem |||quite interested in poetry, small press publishing, zines & agit prop |||performance. ||| |||in the heat of our summer, ||| |||~mIEKAL ||| ||| |||On Jul 25, 2005, at 4:55 AM, Pam Brown wrote: ||| |||> Dear Miekal, hello, |||> You wrote - |||> |||>> This list is severely deprived of international |||> input, a lot of us have |||>> a deep interest in seeing this list become more |||> international. |||> |||> Oh well, I'll try to put in a bit more. I should make |||> an effort. |||> Greetings from Sydney, |||> Pam |||> |||> Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ |||> |||> Send instant messages to your online friends |||> http://au.messenger.yahoo.com |||> |||> |||---- |||Awkword Ubutronics |||Amendant Hardiker: patatechnocrat |||Beliefware that works, since 1987. |||Email is obsolete. ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: = 28/07/05 ||| --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 28/07/05 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 19:18:27 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laura oliver Subject: Poetry About Paintings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There is a specific name/term given to poetry about paintings. I read it once in an article, but can't recall. Anyone know it? Thank you, Laura ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:20:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: Poetry About Paintings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ekphrasis is the term you want, I think. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:34:31 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1823@telus.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: ~ 8.bliss Interview with UK's Rago Magazine ~ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ~ 8.bliss Interview with UK's Rago Magazine ~ Peace all, I just wanted to drop a little note about my latest interview with UK's "Rago Magazine". Much Love to Tricksta for putting it together. Read it online here: Rago Interview w/ 8.bliss http://www.ragomagazine.com/page_display.asp?PageID=11&PageType=Interview * I'm getting back in the swing of things too, just got some new gear... so expect some new shit real soon.... *And as most of you may or may not know, I've been doing Omnipresent Records myself. It's getting too overwhelming. I'd love to find a home for my music. Any established Indy labels hit me up. Let's Build! ((Global Love)) ~ Omnipresent Records ~ Website: http://www.OmnipresentRecords.com E-mail: heart@OmnipresentRecords.com New York, U.S.A. Featured Artists:7/28/2005 'NEWS 2005', by 8.bliss ~ THE LATEST 8.BLISS NEWS ~ collabs in UK, France, Sweden, NYC, South Carolina,... A New Video.. A "UMA" UK Award Nomination... ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation."\ --patrick o'neil\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:34:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Poetry About Paintings In-Reply-To: <1ac.3c8d6047.301e7e79@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > ekphrasis is the term you want, I think. Who can say "poetry-painting & ekphrasis' in the same breath? Can't we come up with a quickie, like "Paint-Po" or "Po-Paint" - as "He/she's into Paint-Po" or "Po-Paint"?? I suspect it's important to separate poems 'about' paintings from poems and graphic work in which the two mediums are implicitly or seamlessly of one another. Stephen V Triggers, my poetry ebook from Shearsman Books is at: http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/ebooks/ebooks_home.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:19:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeremy Hawkins Subject: Re: Poetry About Paintings In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It is my understanding that ekphrastic poetry is poetry written in response or in relation to works of visual art. Seems highly appropriate to the original query. Sure, we could invent nomenclature to be more specific, to talk about poets who aren't moved by sculpture (right, Ron?): but if you think you're gonna catch me running around and telling people that anyone is into "po-paint," well you're just as likely to hear me calling myself post-post-lyric. In the end it's all taxonomy, and like taxidermy, it ends up lacking meat. -jeremy --- Stephen Vincent wrote: > > ekphrasis is the term you want, I think. > > Who can say "poetry-painting & ekphrasis' in the > same breath? > Can't we come up with a quickie, like "Paint-Po" or > "Po-Paint" - as > "He/she's into Paint-Po" or "Po-Paint"?? > > I suspect it's important to separate poems 'about' > paintings from poems and > graphic work in which the two mediums are implicitly > or seamlessly of one > another. > > Stephen V > Triggers, my poetry ebook from Shearsman Books is > at: > http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/ebooks/ebooks_home.html > ____________________________________________ The essence of the genius of our race, is, in our opinion, the reconciliation it effects between the base and the beautiful, recognising that they are complementary and indispensable to each other. - Hugh MacDiarmid ____________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 16:44:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Poetry About Paintings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit poems written about or inspired by paintings a long tradition great stuff usually wwc bruegel and 100 others taidrmy lacking meat / where are you from the morgue? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:45:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeremy Hawkins Subject: Re: Poetry About Paintings In-Reply-To: <20050731.164441.-180441.10.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit agreed about a long and great tradition... the bit about lacking meat had to do with obsessing over the naming of things rather than the things themselves. obsessing over the taxonomy. --- Steve Dalachinksy wrote: > poems written about or inspired by paintings a long > tradition great > stuff usually > > wwc bruegel and 100 others taidrmy lacking meat > / > > where are you from the morgue? > ____________________________________________ The essence of the genius of our race, is, in our opinion, the reconciliation it effects between the base and the beautiful, recognising that they are complementary and indispensable to each other. - Hugh MacDiarmid ____________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 17:08:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Update on Poetry Activities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey: Here's an update on some of my poetry activities: My Morning Poems are now featured on a new issue of the web journal Tool (along with work by Clark Coolidge, Bob Holman, Philip Good and Jim Behrle): http://www.toolamagazine.com/Wanda.html Reviews of my book Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems are now on Evergreen Review: http://www.evergreenreview.com/reviews_notes110/wakeupcalls.html and Gathering of the Tribes: http://www.tribes.org/cgi-bin/form.pl?karticle=570 My appearances on Jack Foley's KPFA Cover to Cover radio show are now archived on their website so you can listen to them anytime. Go to the page, scroll down to the June 29th posting (part 1 of the interview) and July 9th (Part 2) and download them at: http://www.kpfa.org/archives/archives.php?id=106 Feel free to pass this info. on and send me your comments. Best, Wanda -- Wanda Phipps Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems my first full-length book of poetry has just been released by Soft Skull Press available at the Soft Skull site: http://www.softskull.com/detailedbook.php?isbn=1-932360-31-X and on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/193236031X/ref=rm_item and don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://www.mindhoney.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 22:58:28 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laura oliver Subject: Re: Poetry About Paintings In-Reply-To: <1ac.3c8d6047.301e7e79@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ekphrasis Yes that's it! Thank you, Laura ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 18:24:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Patrick F. Durgin" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: blind seer in black arts fiction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The figure of the blind seer / prophet is familiar, from Teiresius in Oedipus for instance. The figure reoccurs in someone like Roland Kirk ("I Talk with the Spirits") and, I suspect, in fiction or drama of the Black Arts Movement, of which Kirk's work in music is a vital component. Can anyone suggest works of the BAM that include the figure of the blind seer? Please back-channel your suggestions & thanks much - Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:09:41 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Last Call To ROCK & ROLL!!!! Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Click here: The Assassinated Press=20 http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Last Call To ROCK & ROLL!!!!; Many Who Support The War Have Not Yet Signed=20 Up. Hurry The Fuck Up. You Are the Morons We Most Want To See Come Back In A= Box=20 Or Not Come Back To Our Country At All.: Administration Thoroughly Whipped In Iraq, Ready To Cut And Run In Spring: "We Got Fuckin' Better Things To Do Than Steal Iraq's Oil For That Cocksucke= r=20 Dick Cheney," Reads Communiqu=E9 From Joint Chiefs Of Staff: Remaining Troops And Mercs Will Protect Dick Cheney's Oil, Natural Gas, Scot= t=20 McLellan says: Evacuation Planned By Helicopter From Roof Of Baghdad Embassy: Shia Charter To Give Shi'ites A Big Role; Committee Chairman Misinterprets=20 What U.S. Oligarchy Means By Democracy, Cites "Will of Majority" Instead Of=20= Will=20 Of Those In Which The Majority Of Wealth Resides.: U.S. Signals Spring Start of Pullout But Will Continue To Fuck Up Iraq In=20 Traditional Foreign Policy Ways.: General Restates Position, Noting Contingencies, As Rumsfeld Arrives In=20 Baghdad To Tell Him To Shut His Piehole About The Cut And Run.: "He may be a smirking little ignorant prick of a president, but he's my=20 smirking little ignorant prick of a president," As Americans rally around th= eir=20 fool, ready to 'Rock & Roll' in Iraq. By ANN SNOTT TRYSOM & EELOIN KNICKERMIRE=20 =20 They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose.=20 ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in=20 the=20 sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful=20 language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or=20 hypocritical,=20 whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating= =20 impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poure= d=20 forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter= =20 house. =20 One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first=20 giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 17:15:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: notes from new palestine: HIV/AIDS as the other face of terrorism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit notes from new palestine: HIV/AIDS as the other face of terrorism http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/42638.php HIV/AIDS as the other face of terrorism this media revamping of reality (bourgeois propaganda) is no different than what occurred when most diseases were passed via colonizing europeans who introduced and spread “the sickness”, be it mental or physical, to the native/indigenous populations thus decimating tribes and cultures then reworked their role from ethnic cleansers into that of missionaries and health providers. **** About the spamming of propaganda targeting the poor and the nonwhites as the bringers of disease and destruction in this case of HIV as the other face of terrorism -- if you do the knowledge, the people who are engaging in risky behavior and even have encouraged and glamorized the now POPcult “lifestyle of disease” are white middle class and professional gay men – conspicuous in their absence on the recent coverage ,or more, the spam attacks on media sites and within the gay community will project this ‘positive is negative’ ideology onto the swarthy, the bisexual, the lower classes and especially those who are in foreign lands or who do not conform to the global bandwagon of constructed sexual ideologies as designated by the u.s. (unformed state). The porn industry, personal ads and party circuits for "barebacking" videos and adverts, is targeted towards men of the more wealthier erie noble “mobile” classes, mostly of the leather scene, who use poor youth and nonwhites to satiate this “life on the edge” desire centered in boredom, cruelty, power and human life as a chess game. The game can be seen as the colonizing global business economy creeps on in life, as a likkle death, on the backs of extreme poverty and the working poor. So this risking and attracting the infection, aka. "the gift", becomes a game of the ruling class and a ebenezeresque endowment to globalization in order to ‘decrease the surplus population”, disable countries and communities and have them come along side as the great 8 hold the power of cures, poisons and research in check. “This whole notion that ordinary western(er)s can help suffering starving Africans by having a big party is patronising, shallow and obscene…” – radio khilafah The Victorian era used the poor and young males in the same manner as “rule britiannia” sounded off in a country camouflaged in power and tragedy of manners covering up it’s hypocrisy, syphilis, murder and sickness. in these times of increasing legitimizing of the ‘flesh for funds’ trade agreements which normalizes prostitution as an alternate income source, and for white youth, as a "coming out process", it is not coincidental, that neoslavery has become the rule of thumb and that the gay community is pushing this mental state (from xtrawest to the glossy amerikkkan puppet masters which bang the macabre dance tunes of lies and shallow hopes of happiness and conformity), like a kkkanadian with a infected blanket, wraps it up like a gift to first nations peoples. “How did this disease come of nowhere and metamorphose from a gay white male disease to a Black disease, disproportionately affecting Africa and female African Americans? If it were a Black disease, we would have been dying from it before the 1980's.”— Darryl James -- “ The Black Top Ten: Evidence of Racism” this media revamping of reality (bourgeois propaganda) is no different than what occurred when most diseases were passed via colonizing europeans who introduced and spread “the sickness”, be it mental or physical, to the native/indigenous populations thus decimating tribes and cultures then reworked their role from ethnic cleansers into that of missionaries and health providers. let's not forget the travesty of the poppy show of "live8" which only serves as the propaganda machine for the global holocaust of amerikkka and her all lies. "we felt and had expressed very strongly that the Live 8 and Make Poverty History campaigns in many ways were taking us back to an Edwardian era of tea and sympathy, that they were replacing our political campaigns with philanthropic campaigns. And they were handling the G8 leaders as if they were the potential saviors of the world, while completely ignoring and sidelining the harm that they were doing."--George Monbiot The posts and the propaganda will, like most media in this denial and (RE)creation of reality culture, sway the focus away from the privileged classes of white gay culture (and that gay culture here in british Columbia) and choose to scapegoat the poor and nonwhites, and even the population of countries and peoples which seem to defy globalization, as being the axis of aids and hiv -- we have seen endless posts on china, cuba, the poor, africa, the caribbean, italy and the increasingly defiant and radicalized native peoples, whose youth are on the come up, and who are clashing with the ethnic genocidal block busting practices of the gentrifying urban and global powers, as the strapped suicide bombers of hiv and aids. Not so coincidently, adding to alden c. mayfield’s observation, these native youths are currently joining and engaging “the mainstream systems of power and knowledge,” therefore making themselves “able to right the injustices of the past through political, legal or military intervention.”. This is no different than the middle east be it Palestine or other muslim countries, who suffer far less from, if any, the once, named “gay plague” now HIV and AIDs, who are making moves to disturb the lies and colonizers and their traditional romp of rape, plaguing and alternate career sources. Let us note that with these colonial eerie noble practices the physical and mental health state soon should “reform” these backwards civilization and bring them up to the contemporary level of the western world and it’s global goals of new world medical industry despair and disease – and with this, in the case of HIV as the other face of terrorism, we see “what Indians and Palestinians (and the poor and blacks) share” 1426 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC http://ottawa.indymedia.ca/en/2005/05/951.shtml http://bc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/1886/index.php http://omnipresentrecords.com/ishaq/?media_id=8 http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=11474&TagID=8 or http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/42626.php http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/08/1346205 and Darryl James -- “ The Black Top Ten: Evidence of Racism” http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/06/42105.php http://www.blacknla.com/news/Articles/DJ10Racism.asp http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=7983 or http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/06/41547.php Cowboys and Indians: Perspectives on http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/28219.php see also: ...all have great responsibilities and that is the responsibility of taking care of patients, responsibility of nursing and responsibility of treatment...in the same manner as a father treats his child, a mother nurses her children. You should consider patients as your own relatives... And in hospital they should be cared and nursed in the same manner, as Islam likes them to be cared and nursed and attended with responsibility... those patients whose hearts are broken, are in need of nursing of spirit, need of spiritual tranquility... nursing like a mother, a sister and brother and father. http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/42433.php http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=7983 ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:51:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Poetry About Paintings In-Reply-To: <20050731201954.3511.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I give in. I thought the question was aimed more at contemporary practice i= n which the material of the poem is a mix of text and image - one modifying o= r amplifying the vocabulary of the other. Instead of me trying to come up wit= h a term, I suspect it best to ask practitioners - if not "Paint-Po" or "Po-Paint" as to what they call their acts, if anything yet. (Of course I have never met a Language Poet who said what he or she practiced was "Lang Po" - as in "I do Lang Po.") In any case Ekphrasis is then term in which the poet uses the poem to interpret or make drama of the painting. Done beautifully by many - say WCW with Brueghel. And very tediously by many others. Tedious or great, I still suspect it rare that a poet - unless in the context of a critical, academi= c discussion - would use the word "Ekphrasis" as a working term. Tho I could imagine an art school band calling itself the "Ekphrasiacs" - maybe! Or a drug able to produce beautiful combinations of words and images called "Ekprhasia." Stephen V =A0=A0 > It is my understanding that ekphrastic poetry is > poetry written in response or in relation to works of > visual art. Seems highly appropriate to the original > query. >=20 > Sure, we could invent nomenclature to be more > specific, to talk about poets who aren't moved by > sculpture (right, Ron?): but if you think you're gonna > catch me running around and telling people that anyone > is into "po-paint," well you're just as likely to hear > me calling myself post-post-lyric. >=20 > In the end it's all taxonomy, and like taxidermy, it > ends up lacking meat. >=20 > -jeremy >=20 >=20 > --- Stephen Vincent wrote: >=20 >>> ekphrasis is the term you want, I think. >>=20 >> Who can say "poetry-painting & ekphrasis' in the >> same breath? >> Can't we come up with a quickie, like "Paint-Po" or >> "Po-Paint" - as >> "He/she's into Paint-Po" or "Po-Paint"?? >>=20 >> I suspect it's important to separate poems 'about' >> paintings from poems and >> graphic work in which the two mediums are implicitly >> or seamlessly of one >> another. >>=20 >> Stephen V >> Triggers, my poetry ebook from Shearsman Books is >> at: >>=20 > http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/ebooks/ebooks_home.html >>=20 >=20 >=20 > ____________________________________________ >=20 > The essence of the genius of our race, is, in our opinion, > the reconciliation it effects between the base > and the beautiful, recognising that they are complementary > and indispensable to each other. >=20 > - Hugh MacDiarmid > ____________________________________________