========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 23:47:27 -0700 Reply-To: kalamu@aol.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: dc writers corps fundraiser featuring amiri baraka & etan thomas MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>INFO: dc writers corps fundraiser featuring amiri baraka & etan thomas ============================================================ Join DC WritersCorps and The Boulevard at Capital Centre For A Free! Poetry Slam-Jam Fundraiser! featuring Amiri Baraka, legendary poet, activist, author of over 60 books & Etan Thomas, Wizards Center, poet author of "More Than An Athlete" joined by local celebrity poets DJ Renegade, Laini Mataka, Olu Butterfly VS. The DC WritersCorps All-Star Youth Poetry Slam Team featuring poets age 13-19 This Fundraiser will be hosted by Dave Zirin, sports writer and author of "What’s My Name Fool!" with celebrity judge Joe Gorham, host of Joe’s Place WHUR 96.3 FM Thursday, June 1, 2006 6:00 – 8:00 PM Boulevard At The Capital Centre Arena Drive & Interstate 95 South, Largo, Maryland Largo Town Center stop, Blue Line Metro For more information call 202 332-2848 or www.dcwriterscorps.org DC WritersCorps, Inc. 2437 15th Street, NW Washington, DC 20009 202 332-2848/202 332-5455fx http://www.dcwriterscorps.org ############################################# this is e-drum, a listserv providing information of interests to black writers and diverse supporters worldwide. e-drum is moderated by kalamu ya salaam (kalamu@aol.com). _ Stay Strong "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:26:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: OlsonNow Update Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed John Hyland responds to Ben Friedlander and poses a few questions to the OlsonSphere http://olsonnow.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:25:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Linh Dinh, Andy Warhol, Neo-Formalism on Stoning the Devil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New on Stoning the Devil (www.adamfieled.blogspot.com): -- "Random Buzz: Linh Dinh on "Great Works"" -- "Good Po-Mo Bad Po-Mo Pt.2: Warhol Redux" -- "Neo-Formalist Theses 3 & 4" -- "Flick Review: The Proposition" -- "Leonard Cohen on NPR" -- "Miles Davis turns 80" much, much more.... --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:20:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Marzahl Subject: postmodernisit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed A fascinating and surprising discussion, as these Poetics discussions, when they get rolling, often are. Who would have thought that "postmodernism" was still a topic for debate? As much as I like the ecological turn that the talk has taken, I would like to contribute by turning back to the more narrow aesthetic/literary question. I am surprised that no one has yet mentioned Charles Altieri's very helpful collection of essays "Postmodernisms Now: Essays on Contemporaneity in the Arts" (Pennsylvania State UP, 1998). Altieri's criticism is too nuanced for me to summarize in toto just now, but I wonder if two short quotations might be appropriate. The first point is that postmodernism is, for Altieri, both alive and dead. On the one hand: "I think postmodernism is now dead as a theoretical concept, and, more important, as a way of developing cultural frameworks influencing how we shape theoretical concepts. With its basic enabling arguments now sloganized and its efforts to escape binaries binarized, it is unlikely to generate much significant new work" (23). On the other hand: "Perhaps now that the theory has lost much of its power, it may be possible to recognize how much it appropriated from the arts and to focus on differences between the two orientations. It may even be possible to regain for the arts some of the cultural authority they at least thought they possessed before 'theory' took over the role of shaping how imaginations might cultivate alternatives to the ideologies dominating 'official culture'" (23). The second excerpt concerns a critical tactic to which I am very sympathetic--namely, reading the imaginative work and allowing it to invoke the appropriate frame or context, rather than forcing works into those frames. (For those following the OlsonNow blog, this rhymes with looking at the smallest part in order to see the whole.) "Moreover, the effort to reconstruct the force of these particulars may make it possible for others to share the pleasures and sense of possibilities that my generation experienced when we defined ourselves largely by our fealties to those artistic and critical efforts to overthrow the hegemony of modernism in the arts." (5) Of course, at 35 I am not of Altieri's generation, which I mention only because someone somewhere below brought up generations (I think it was when folks were discussing certain films, how the kids love them, but the parents hate them). Belonging to (or is it inclusion in?--I'm still pondering this mathematical distinction sharpened for ordinary language by Badiou in "Being and Event") an aggressively mark(et)ed generation may make communication across certain gaps difficult, but I think that those of us who "came of age" in the 80s (ugh) understand these "fealties" very well. The question I for one am asking myself--when not lamenting the state of the biosphere--is what we still owe and to whom. Anyway. Altieri. The particulars of the imaginative act. Check your frames at the door. Kevin Marzahl ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:56:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: postmodernisit? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Smart and helpful. Thanks. Mark At 11:20 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote: >A fascinating and surprising discussion, as these Poetics >discussions, when they get rolling, often are. Who would have >thought that "postmodernism" was still a topic for debate? As much >as I like the ecological turn that the talk has taken, I would like >to contribute by turning back to the more narrow aesthetic/literary question. > >I am surprised that no one has yet mentioned Charles Altieri's very >helpful collection of essays "Postmodernisms Now: Essays on >Contemporaneity in the Arts" (Pennsylvania State UP, >1998). Altieri's criticism is too nuanced for me to summarize in >toto just now, but I wonder if two short quotations might be appropriate. > >The first point is that postmodernism is, for Altieri, both alive >and dead. On the one hand: "I think postmodernism is now dead as a >theoretical concept, and, more important, as a way of developing >cultural frameworks influencing how we shape theoretical >concepts. With its basic enabling arguments now sloganized and its >efforts to escape binaries binarized, it is unlikely to generate >much significant new work" (23). On the other hand: "Perhaps now >that the theory has lost much of its power, it may be possible to >recognize how much it appropriated from the arts and to focus on >differences between the two orientations. It may even be possible >to regain for the arts some of the cultural authority they at least >thought they possessed before 'theory' took over the role of shaping >how imaginations might cultivate alternatives to the ideologies >dominating 'official culture'" (23). > >The second excerpt concerns a critical tactic to which I am very >sympathetic--namely, reading the imaginative work and allowing it to >invoke the appropriate frame or context, rather than forcing works >into those frames. (For those following the OlsonNow blog, this >rhymes with looking at the smallest part in order to see the whole.) > >"Moreover, the effort to reconstruct the force of these particulars >may make it possible for others to share the pleasures and sense of >possibilities that my generation experienced when we defined >ourselves largely by our fealties to those artistic and critical >efforts to overthrow the hegemony of modernism in the arts." (5) > >Of course, at 35 I am not of Altieri's generation, which I mention >only because someone somewhere below brought up generations (I think >it was when folks were discussing certain films, how the kids love >them, but the parents hate them). Belonging to (or is it inclusion >in?--I'm still pondering this mathematical distinction sharpened for >ordinary language by Badiou in "Being and Event") an aggressively >mark(et)ed generation may make communication across certain gaps >difficult, but I think that those of us who "came of age" in the 80s >(ugh) understand these "fealties" very well. The question I for one >am asking myself--when not lamenting the state of the biosphere--is >what we still owe and to whom. > >Anyway. Altieri. The particulars of the imaginative act. Check >your frames at the door. > >Kevin Marzahl ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:00:38 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: The psychological dilemma of the Black artist MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ender.indymedia.org/?q=node/259 or http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/50215.php ... These young Black artists utilize their own vernacular, the language they have created, to tell their stories. We scoff when they tell us they have redefined the 'N' word. Many of us were offended by the use of the term "Ebonics"; we said we wanted our youth to speak "good English" so that they would get a job. But Black youth not only created their own language,...Are artists falsely creating negative images or simply expressing the realities that exist for a segment of Black America? We will not be able to change the images the Black experience has created until we are able to change the experiences that have influenced them. The psychological dilemma of the Black artist By Harry Davidson, Ph.D. -Guest Columnist- Updated May 31, 2006, 10:38 am * Spelman women continue to rap about hip hop (FCN, 11-10-2005) http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_2256.shtml Outrage over honoring "It's Hard Out Here For A Pimp" with an Academy Award for Best Original Song has created a dilemma for another generation of aspiring Black artists. Is the primary allegiance of artists to their art form, or should they restrict themselves by the ideals of Black social/political critics? Just as Hattie McDaniel, Lincoln Perry (Step and Fetchit) and a host of earlier artists were forced to perform within the racial, political and social context of their times, today's generation of aspiring artists create and perform based on their cultural and/or sub-cultural experience, their unique realities. These young Black artists utilize their own vernacular, the language they have created, to tell their stories. We scoff when they tell us they have redefined the 'N' word. Many of us were offended by the use of the term "Ebonics"; we said we wanted our youth to speak "good English" so that they would get a job. But Black youth not only created their own language, they then used that language to create wealth. While this generation of Black youth has generated the greatest presence of Blacks in the media in history, we should rightfully be concerned about the type of image that they projected. Are artists falsely creating negative images or simply expressing the realities that exist for a segment of Black America? We will not be able to change the images the Black experience has created until we are able to change the experiences that have influenced them. Many Black youth have been severely traumatized by the absence of parents, loss of friends as they face daily fears that they may become victims of violence at home and at school. Their raps serve a cathartic release. Their expressions are raw and thus may rub us the wrong way. Powerless to change their conditions, too many of us further victimize the victims in the name of our so-called racial pride. And, whose more proud of who they are than those youth who openly express themselves without concern about what White people think about them. "Those other Blacks" offend many of us who find their actions and behaviors embarrassing. Not only are we offended by their "obscene behaviors," but also by their relatively trivial acts. We wouldn't dare be seen in public with rollers in our hair. We would never use the "N" word around Whites. We would like to suppress the psychological impact of slavery on us and would prefer that "those other" Blacks become like Ralph Ellison's "Invisible Man." They, in turn, declare that rap is here to stay--which means they are, too. Ironically, despite access to better education, the Black upper and middle-class do not appear to be either as creative or industrious as Blacks in the "hood." If we want their stories to be told, then they must tell them with the same zestful vigor that "those other" Blacks are able to manifest. The South African movie Tsotsi provides a comparable study of a young man who bares the psychological, posttraumatic mental and emotional generational scars of White supremacy, domination and oppression. Like the Color Purple, the story leaves out the generational effects and impacts of White supremacy racism and slavery. Despite the fact that some Blacks are in denial, all of us are the products of a history of oppression and White domination. It ain't just hard out here for pimps. Hustle and Flow was about more than pimps and whores. The movie was about a segment of Black people who exist even without our approval. It was a love story, a Black prostitute who falls in love with her pimp and a pimp who, in the end, recognizes his love for her, despite the fact that she is carrying another man's child. Taraji P. Henson's character loved her man. She stood by him and felt his pain. It was her character that was able to emote: "You know it's hard out here for a pimp." It was her lament, her ode. I was touched by Taraji P. Henson's character's lyrical, rhythmic expression of both praise and sorrow. Nevertheless, Hustle and Flow represented a small percentage of a wide spectrum of Black life. And Black artists are not the only ones who face ethical and moral dilemmas. Indeed, Black people demonstrate many contradictions. Is it fair to demand more of Blacks in entertainment than we do of Blacks in other fields of endeavor? Until we collectively improve the reality of our condition, our racial psychopathology, we must temper our judgment of the reality the artist depicts. Certainly, I am not pleased with the media's impact on Black people, however, I am equally concerned about how Blacks who have obtained perceived positions of influence and power respond to the plight of our people. Ironically, it is because of the exposure that Black athletes and entertainers have achieved that they are the most vulnerable to our criticism. (Harry Davidson is the co-chair of the Legislative Education Committee of the Association of Black Psychologists.) http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_2657.shtml ___ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" \ "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 14:40:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: postmodernisit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit true ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:29:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Magee's MAINSTREAM now available... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone, Just wanted to let you know that my book MAINSTREAM -- poems written on an= d to the Flarf Collective listserv from 2002-2005 -- is now out from BlazeV= ox books. You can buy it off the BlazeVox website here: http://www.blazevox.org or you can buy a version with a somewhat higher production quality (matte c= over and nicer paper stock etc) from Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org The book includes the poem "Mainstream Poetry" which you can see me reading= live at the Flarf Festival here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DeuwlsZT53go&search=3Dflarf as well as the controversial poem "Their Guys, Their Asian Glittering Guys,= Are Gay," which as been hotly debated for the last two weeks around the bl= ogosphere. Drew Gardner, author of "Chicks Dig War" says of the books, "Right from the= start, Magee=E2=80=99s work bristles with the spirit of improvisation. Eve= rything about it pops: classic poetry chops, a serious sense of humor, unab= ashed rawness. Mainstream is thrilling because it can turn in any direction= at any time, moving effortlessly from wacked units of thought turning insi= de out to tender moments of highly focused nonsense and song that get, para= doxically, straight to the point. The frames we bring to these poems can=E2= =80=99t remain intact stanza to stanza -- and in this instability there are= great poetic pleasures and possibilities." Anyway, hope this interests... Michael Magee ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:48:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 6/5 - 6/7 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Dear Champions of our Heart, We are gearing up to flee the soul-killing heat of our office, but before doing so have a few more readings planned for your summertime pleasure. Please join us this week =AD the final Wednesday of the season! Yours in June, The Poetry Project Monday, June 5, 8:00pm Jess Mynes & Dustin Williamson Jess Mynes is the author of In(ex)teriors (Anchorite Press); a collaboratio= n with poet Aaron Tieger, Coltsfoot Insularity (Fewer & Further Press); and birds for example (CARVE Editions). He is the editor of Fewer & Further Press. Dustin Williamson edits the Rust Buckle magazine and chapbook series= . He is the author of the chapbooks Heavy Panda (Goodbye Better), Gorilla Dus= t (forthcoming from Open 24 Hour Press), and Power Lunch, a collaboration wit= h the poet Gina Myers. Wednesday, June 7, 8:00pm The Recluse Reading Be the first to read/hear the brand new Recluse. Poets from the 1st and 2nd issues will read, including Arlo Quint, Guillermo Castro, John Yau, Lauren Russell, Macgregor Card, Marcella Durand, Ted Greenwald, Yuko Otomo and Joh= n Yau. Hosted by Regie Cabico. The Recluse 2 will be available. Spring Calendar: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 19:14:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: New on PennSound Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Several years ago the Danish film maker Niels Plenge made a short poetry video with me called "The Answer." We've put it up as an mp4 file on PennSound. Plenge, along with Lars Movin, and Thomas Thurah, made the 2003 documental about O'Hara, Schuyler, and Ashbery, *Something Wonderful May Happen.* * There are four new Close Listening shows now available on PennSound. These are shows I have been recording in New York for WPS1.Org -- they are streamed on WPS1 and archived at PennSound. Last month I did two shows with Rae Armantrout -- a reading and a conversation. And two shows with Thomas McEvilley -- on the first, McEvilley reads classical Greek poetry -- Homer, Sapho, Aeschylus, and Meleajer; in the companion show, McEvilley discusses his art criticism and his scholarly work on ancient (axial-age) cross-cultural connectin between India and Greece. links to "The Answer" and the "Close Listening" shows at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog/ full list of Close Listening shows at: http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Studio-111.html Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:39:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Red Rover Series / Experiment #8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Red Rover Series {readings that play with reading} Experiment #8: Labor Featuring Jay MillAr and Reverend Finley C. Campbell 7pm Saturday, June 10th at the SpareRoom 2416 W. North Ave, Chicago suggested donation $3 http://www.spareroomchicago.org JAY MILLAR is a poet, editor, publisher, bookseller, instructor, and environmental research assistant. His published work includes The Ghosts of Jay MillAr (Coach House Books, 2000), Mycological Studies (Coach House Books 2002), and False Maps for Other Creatures (2005). He is the co-author (with Stephen Cain) of a "novel" titled Double Heilx (forthcoming from The Mercury Press, 2006). He lives in Toronto with his wife Hazel and their two sons where he runs BookThug and Apollinaire's Bookshoppe. MillAr will be reading from Lack Lyrics, an abstract reaction to "being downsized from what essentially amounts to a dead-end job you don't find particularly meaningful." http://www.bookthug.ca http://www.testreading.org/jay.html REVEREND FINLEY C. CAMPBELL is co-chair of the Racial Justice Task Force for the First Unitarian Church of Chicago. He ran as a candidate for Congress and Governor with the Indiana Peace and Freedom Party (1970 and 1972). A past faculty member and chair of UW-Madison's Department of Afro-American Studies, he is presently the chair of the Language Arts Committee for DeVry University's Chicago Campus. Campbell will be performing a selection of his dramatic Sermonettes. http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/5679.php Red Rover Series is curated by Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin Got ideas for reading instructions & experiments? Email us at redroverseries @ yahoogroups.com Coming in August Experiment #9 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:22:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: how to avoid the word "blogosphere" in casual settings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, those who embrace assimilation and those who futilely resist! There's a new update at www.UnlikelyStories.org, featuring: Darby Diana's memoir of Hurricane Katrina Susan Lago on the erosion of privacy Tala Bar on the historical and cultural use of masks Mary Jo Malo's review of "Unnecessary Roughness" by Shin Yu Pai Jonathan Penton interviews Rania Zada on writing the stripping life New fiction by John Sweet, spiel, Rob Rosen, Brent Powers, Uche Peter Umez and Nathan Lee Smith New poetry by Anthony Liccione, john e, John Bryan, Violetta Tarpinian, Rachel Stewart, C. Derick Varn, Tom Harding, and Maggie Shurtleff and A Sardine on Vacation, Episode 38: "A World of Stooges, Part Two" Good luck to all, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 23:27:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: george thompson Subject: Re: postmodernisit? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One thing that can be said for post modernism that cannot be said for modernism, any more, is that post modernism has not yet been sucked up into the great corporate vacuum cleaner. Whereas modernism has been propped up for decades by gross corporate funding of the most disgusting kind [Philip-Morris, Exxon, Enron, etc.], how much of this filthy money has gone to what we would call post modern venues? Early modernism was once revolutionary. Now look at it. I don't doubt that what has happened to the early modernists will also happen to the rest of us. It is all a matter of time and the rare ability and willingness to resist it -- always feeble. One measure of post modernism is that it is still resistent to being co-opted. Well, if it loses that, then I'll dump this au courant -ism for something else. It's not the name that matters. It's the resistence to the inevitable. George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 13:51:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: sworn she=?windows-1252?Q?=92d?= be betty page forever ( from "do what you like") MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT aah boo hoo -- it was close to sounding like her split and near death and him close to cumming that night in his camper. It echoed in an audio caught in the front cab -- jetted out to bounce off the ashvault, along side the kid’s clogged wind pipes, with shure 55 mics clutched by rockabillies in loose fit wranglers and polished creepers who were not too shy a a kin to devland with his tats refined along his arms and body like an oil based dutch masterpiece which almost shimmied in the starlight. he was walking in a slow 4/4 box step outside the camper, in the parking lot, polydirecting the fumes from his marly’s, when the the ladies popped open the back doors and called him in to see them wrap the bundle in clothe and hand him to his sheba, what was only’s mom now, and scowled at only’s daddy who was just a boyfriend up until then. ...he had to give up a days fucking mission up island for this and had to hand it to this woggy crew too. he just said boo to the blues of it all like a fools grip and smashed the day in its toad like flabby kisser ... So the music rang to the poetics of war and the promise of the good life sang to tell the tale of what was held in the tattooed arms of men who would be boys -- the little girls who cried like babies as they got dug out and spewed or kissed them under bridges and would pass like a swoon. only’s daddy and his sheba took refuge in a broken house come near queen st in this place called new palestine. devland drove his camper while only grewup and raised a backyard full of dogs for 3 letter men and jews who were taking over hoods and buildng condos to dodge the niggers and chugs, and what more than that, he had one pitpull hotpepper fed and closeted trained for his cousin, shamus, what come to love the attraction of dark skin and the violence of decadence that it promised. ... Only’s other time was spent in helping raise the dogs for his daddy with his mom. otherwise, he was running with his bro fear and other works and thinking on the deserts of the sahara and reading viruses set to colour on foo scap while emptying himself into that split. It took plently completely. his study. The first evening. Sinking in her was like the opening of a vowel. his jane’s name was susan. Only’s head was filled with many schemes and things -- she was more on than in it when time came to replace the illuminational target of his fist firing hits off in the highlands. ... She saw devland get out of that camper. only’s daddy had drove up in his vanagon to pick up another switch puppy for a couple of queens in james bay. He went past the kids who kidnapped dogs as companions then played in the sun in the streets and begged the neighbours for broken walkmens. she still liked when he came by sometimes. he walked like a french kiss sent across a café house. she still could know him from blocks away on foot -- he still stroled to a psychedelic bop when he came toward the place she stood and what held the dogs in the backyard beyond her. she had become a pairshaped lady with most of love dropped out of her. those legs could barely hold her anymore. life had become a major iron deficiency caused by a brutal period with no sense of nutritional suppilments -- you could tell by her wired barely kept hair and that the eyes weren’t yet flat but more centered on a tear caught in a draught. he still fucked her once in awhile. she thought their life was sworn to have been like a religion. she was always afraid that she’d become one of those spandex ladies she seen shopping or sipping cider in navy pubs as a young girl. -how they doing- -good, one looks like she’s pregnant. should know for certain in about a couple of weeks or so. I could take her to the vets but I know how much you hate… -about 2 week? swell- but with a rocking daddy like devland, she figured, who breathed a conformation ceremony of psychedelic blues, she surely figured and would have bet her life, a swell cool even when he leaned back waiting for the streetlight to change, she could have sworn she’d be betty page forever. only came passed his mother from out the house with a pooch under each arm. devland took them off him and eyed him that he should follow him to the camper and they left her as she turned and contained a controlled waddle back into the house. the dude next door, he saw the transaction btwn only and his daddy and he whispered to the darkie over a fug saying; ‘…that kid is bad…’ the house down the block on bay… ‘…I saw him hit his mom…’ the house down the block on bay held only’s lil cousin who was buck nekked in a bed, at this time, his minibike lowlow crashed on the floor, with this 13yr old paki chick he went to school with laying next to him. he loved her for the moment of spurting without knuckling off. she had gained him into it swell and he held her like containing a disaster. Her parents where at work and his was done for now. Something in the cereal for the girls these days – their racks were so much bigger than the girls who covered the wax of blindfaith. Only’s cousin had a 7.7 dick - real cool and thick- the size of what people once said nigger’s had fucked with - and he was becoming so popular that some haters was calling him ginger. He shared one thing with that family from straight up to metaphorically– he kept the rhythm and beat up many a galamity into submission and that was plane to see. The paki girl was wrapped around him with her hand cupping his resting dick and balls. brought into experience she lay there ; wanting more of his jetliner and to make him her habit -- figuring she keep longer—add some respectablity in her life; bagging a jet black haired cousin of a brown headed aryan who swaggered the blocks in a red jersey and oversized ballcourt shorts -- the true son of a desolate rockabilly, in a hood dedicaded to the beast of blues – they cuddle over what was butta and chatted over pillows about what they don’t like what they do they don’t like abortion murders of kin they don’t like some of her friends – they kind of jelly of him. --- he likes her head the way she stares cross eyed and toads over his lollipop and that baby she can ride she likes the skin and the tone of his voice he like her d cups - there’s no confusing her for boys and that she ain’t flat and them babies bounce back pretty don’t make him brail for the likes of that tittie he humps his flow into her caramel limo he’s got endless gooey for her diddy 1.2.3.4. it was stat. not made for fluffers or beat down whores. He grabbed a handle and road her fat city. shaytan in a western -- pride, hypocrisy, sloth, gowness, envy, love excessive, lust, depravity, disobedience -- shaytan in a western. Sonic stolen after a bloody fucking and wetness. Internal qibla level stanzas of misdirection. It was not for the weakened or 21 navyboys in fudge bars too scared to kill an arab for a canadian – government- who would talk about it while absorbed in coke dreamings of 3ppcli mercenaries shooting pakis and banging somali teens with angel lust. It was just the plane truth at stake here. Like those who shoot loads like salt like tears. Deep skinny dipping in the water hitting bottom resembling a black and blue explosion becomes a bigger splash. His cousin stroked her skin like he was painting it for art class. She wiggled as he hardened in her hands. He turned to press her down into the mattress and he saw his bike, a torn up manga comic book on the floor and fantasics and men resembling the intials of radical black men ready to die for lost causes and the ill perfecfion of islam. And he blew away satan and slipped gently creeking into a rhythm. Let me step into the stanza and recite you letters in notes you will never figure Watchez for the water We’ll settle this mystery Thrown a body of death away from victoria This the message of what happened to a daughter What’s you like? h..oh What’s you like? h..oh What’s you like? h..oh What’s you like? ah h What can we do to enjoy you? The corpse who fell blind in the ocean - Broken legs and eyes popped like cherries – death by water and the dying equality in amerikkka. lycanthropes battering vampyre like empires children ganging up and beating the flesh at night ... bio: Author of the novels Wigger, Ratz Are Nice, and More at 7:30: Notes to New Palestine, Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) likes to dub his prose like Lee "Scratch" Perry and King Tubby chopped music & voice. Braithwaite has performed at Lollapalooza, The National Black Arts Festival, Prose Acts: Alternative Fiction Literary Conference with Dennis Cooper, Kevin Killian, Robert Glück, and Dodie Bellamy, and at the Kootney School of Writing. His fiction has appeared in Fourteen Hills, Role Call: A Generational Anthology of Social & Political Black Literature & Art, Bluesprints: Anthology of Black British Columbian Literature and Orature, Redzone: Victoria's Street People Zine, Fernwood's Sleeping Dragon, Velvet Mafia, Of the Flesh, Nocturnes, Biting the Error and the web journal "sidebrow". His words and voice may be heard on the Hurricane Angel electronic and spoken word project "luckily i was half cat," as well as his own solo works. He lives in the Hood of New Palestine, Fernwood, British Columbia. http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/how_fast_does_light_travel___for_george_scott_3rd_b2.mp3 1: en fins (clichy-sous bois)bmixdistortion dub http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_.mp3 http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/11/7632.php ___ Stay Strong \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and\ amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" \ "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 01:47:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: The Abuse of Language - The illogical structure as fact MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline An image poem The Abuse of Language - The illogical structure as fact http://tinyurl.com/lek6h -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:27:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: postmodernisit? In-Reply-To: <447FB01B.10303@adelphia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 1 Jun 2006 at 23:27, george thompson wrote: > One thing that can be said for post modernism that cannot be said > for > modernism, any more, is that post modernism has not yet been sucked > up > into the great corporate vacuum cleaner. Whereas modernism has been > propped up for decades by gross corporate funding of the most > disgusting > kind [Philip-Morris, Exxon, Enron, etc.], how much of this filthy > money > has gone to what we would call post modern venues? Mad world! mad kings! mad composition! William Shakespeare (King John) Faulconbridge: Mad world! mad kings! mad composition! John, to stop Arthur's title in the whole, Hath willingly departed with a part, And France, whose armour conscience buckled on, Whom zeal and charity brought to the field As God's own soldier, rounded in the ear With that same purpose-changer, that sly devil, That broker, that still breaks the pate of faith, That daily break-vow, he that wins of all, Of kings, of beggars, old men, young men, maids, Who, having no external thing to lose But the word 'maid,' cheats the poor maid of that, That smooth-faced gentleman, tickling Commodity, Commodity, the bias of the world, The world, who of itself is peised well, Made to run even upon even ground, Till this advantage, this vile-drawing bias, This sway of motion, this Commodity, Makes it take head from all indifferency, From all direction, purpose, course, intent: And this same bias, this Commodity, This bawd, this broker, this all-changing word, Clapp'd on the outward eye of fickle France, Hath drawn him from his own determined aid, From a resolved and honourable war, To a most base and vile-concluded peace. And why rail I on this Commodity? But for because he hath not woo'd me yet: Not that I have the power to clutch my hand, When his fair angels would salute my palm; But for my hand, as unattempted yet, Like a poor beggar, raileth on the rich. Well, whiles I am a beggar, I will rail And say there is no sin but to be rich; And being rich, my virtue then shall be To say there is no vice but beggary. Since kings break faith upon commodity, Gain, be my lord, for I will worship thee. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 06:21:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Lucid and annulled Comments: To: netbehaviour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lucid and annulled It's the same problem you've always had: no-one wants to go far enough. Out past the good neighborhoods lies the area of the city in which suburban boys vanquish their fears of mediocrity; everyone's "from the street" these days, even if the paint on ragged houses peels across the boards, rendering him unusable... http://xanaxpop.lewislacook.org/ ||[]||[]||[]||[]||[]||[]||[]||[] *************************************************************************** ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... || http://www.corporatepa.com || Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting Corporate Performance Artists --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:09:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: postmodernisit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit corps(e) have sucked up every thing one way (weigh) or 'nuther ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:55:28 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve potter Subject: postmodernisit? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed yeah, thanks Kevin for driving the thread back towards something helpful and away from arguing for the sake of arguing. Steve > >Smart and helpful. Thanks. > >Mark > > >At 11:20 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote: > >A fascinating and surprising discussion, as these Poetics > >discussions, when they get rolling, often are. Who would have > >thought that "postmodernism" was still a topic for debate? As much > >as I like the ecological turn that the talk has taken, I would like > >to contribute by turning back to the more narrow aesthetic/literary >question. > > > >I am surprised that no one has yet mentioned Charles Altieri's very > >helpful collection of essays "Postmodernisms Now: Essays on > >Contemporaneity in the Arts" (Pennsylvania State UP, > >1998). Altieri's criticism is too nuanced for me to summarize in > >toto just now, but I wonder if two short quotations might be appropriate. > > > >The first point is that postmodernism is, for Altieri, both alive > >and dead. On the one hand: "I think postmodernism is now dead as a > >theoretical concept, and, more important, as a way of developing > >cultural frameworks influencing how we shape theoretical > >concepts. With its basic enabling arguments now sloganized and its > >efforts to escape binaries binarized, it is unlikely to generate > >much significant new work" (23). On the other hand: "Perhaps now > >that the theory has lost much of its power, it may be possible to > >recognize how much it appropriated from the arts and to focus on > >differences between the two orientations. It may even be possible > >to regain for the arts some of the cultural authority they at least > >thought they possessed before 'theory' took over the role of shaping > >how imaginations might cultivate alternatives to the ideologies > >dominating 'official culture'" (23). > > > >The second excerpt concerns a critical tactic to which I am very > >sympathetic--namely, reading the imaginative work and allowing it to > >invoke the appropriate frame or context, rather than forcing works > >into those frames. (For those following the OlsonNow blog, this > >rhymes with looking at the smallest part in order to see the whole.) > > > >"Moreover, the effort to reconstruct the force of these particulars > >may make it possible for others to share the pleasures and sense of > >possibilities that my generation experienced when we defined > >ourselves largely by our fealties to those artistic and critical > >efforts to overthrow the hegemony of modernism in the arts." (5) > > > >Of course, at 35 I am not of Altieri's generation, which I mention > >only because someone somewhere below brought up generations (I think > >it was when folks were discussing certain films, how the kids love > >them, but the parents hate them). Belonging to (or is it inclusion > >in?--I'm still pondering this mathematical distinction sharpened for > >ordinary language by Badiou in "Being and Event") an aggressively > >mark(et)ed generation may make communication across certain gaps > >difficult, but I think that those of us who "came of age" in the 80s > >(ugh) understand these "fealties" very well. The question I for one > >am asking myself--when not lamenting the state of the biosphere--is > >what we still owe and to whom. > > > >Anyway. Altieri. The particulars of the imaginative act. Check > >your frames at the door. > > > >Kevin Marzahl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 18:48:01 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Opus 40 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This page was sent to you by: tadrichards@prodigy.net Message from sender: The Opus 40 article is in the New York Times today -- http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/06/02/travel/escapes/02trip.html If you are up to participating in the "Get Opus 40 on the most e-mailed" project, here's what you do. Go to the article. If you're not registered to read the Times Online, you'll have to do that : it's free. Select E-mail. It's just to the right of the first paragraph of the article. Enter the e-mail address of someone you know, and copy and paste the instructions part of this letter in the "personal message" box. Do this as many times as you have friends, or as many times as you can stand it. IMPORTANT: DO NOT JUST FORWARD THIS EMAIL. THIS WILL ONLY WORK IF YOU DO IT THROUGH THE TIMES -E-MAIL- FUNCTION, Thanx to all. TRAVEL / ESCAPES | June 2, 2006 Day Trip: A Monumental Vision of Half a Lifetime By DAVID WALLIS Opus 40, a magnificent maze of platforms, pools, ramps, terraces and bridges in a bluestone quarry near Woodstock, N.Y., not only constitutes a work of art, it also stands as a monument to discipline and hard work. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 13:16:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kenneth Wolman Subject: Re: Opus 40 In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70606020948t2704caa2h1313c2ca063293ba@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anny Ballardini wrote: > If you are up to participating in the "Get Opus 40 on the most > e-mailed" project, here's what you do. Go to the article. If you're > not registered to read the Times Online, you'll have to do that : it's > free. Select E-mail. Just sent the link to girlfriend with note "Halfway to Troy. I wanna go." Her son goes to RPI so it IS halfway to Troy. Amazing thing to contemplate. kw -------------------- Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com "Don't be a baby, be a man. Sell out."--Lenny Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:02:02 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Opus 40 In-Reply-To: <4480725C.70803@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Kenneth, thank you. If you wish to know more of Tad Richards see here: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 and read MY FATHER HAS LUNCH WITH CHOU EN-LAI from My Night With the Language Thieves there is also the Italian version under Poets on Poets, proudly, Anny On 6/2/06, Kenneth Wolman wrote: > Anny Ballardini wrote: > > If you are up to participating in the "Get Opus 40 on the most > > e-mailed" project, here's what you do. Go to the article. If you're > > not registered to read the Times Online, you'll have to do that : it's > > free. Select E-mail. > Just sent the link to girlfriend with note "Halfway to Troy. I wanna > go." Her son goes to RPI so it IS halfway to Troy. > > Amazing thing to contemplate. > > kw > > -------------------- > Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com > > "Don't be a baby, be a man. Sell out."--Lenny Bruce > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 13:41:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Dickey Subject: request for poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear friends and poets, Please consider submitting your work. We welcome original poetry and poetry in translation. Contact us if you would like to submit original artwork. Help spread the word by posting or forwarding this message. Thank you. Eric Wayne Dickey poet, translator, editor Corvallis, Oregon To Topos, a journal of international poetry, invites submissions for its tenth volume on the subject of poetry and poverty guest edited by Dr. Karen Holmberg. Welcoming work from individuals of all cultures, regions, nations, and groups, we call upon poets to replace the abstract with the tangible, to give substance to the voices and faces of those on whom our corporate economy depends and who are often relegated to a state of silence. We hope to collect a body of work that renders the truth of this most comprehensive form of oppression. The issue will include a preface by Michael Parenti. Submissions may be in any language if accompanied by English translation, and must be received by October 1, 2006. To submit, click on http://oregonstate.edu/dept/foreign_lang/totopos/index.html Karen Holmberg’s first book, The Perseids, won the Vassar Miller Prize in 2001, and her work has appeared in such magazines as The Paris Review, The Nation, Slate, Quarterly West and Southern Poetry Review. She lives in Corvallis, OR, where she teaches in the MFA program at Oregon State University. Michael Parenti is an award winning author and activist who has published numerous books, including Superpatriotism (2004), and The Assassination of Julius Caesar (2003) which won the “Book of the Year Award” (nonfiction) from Online Review of Books. His most recent work is The Culture Struggle (2006). For further information, visit his website: www.michaelparenti.org. About To Topos To Topos is an international poetry journal that features poetry in translation, oftentimes the original appears together with its English translation. The following is excerpted from our Poet's Market entry: "To Topos is committed to fostering human rights on an environmentally fragile planet. Its focus is altermondialist, recognizing that the causes of poverty and injustice are often related to race, gender, nationality, and the effacement of earth-given resources. Most issues are thematically focused. "Previous themes include Incarceration, Peace and the Sea, Forests, and North African Voices. Winona LaDuke (White Earth Land Recovery Project) and Dr. William F. Schulz (Amnesty International) have prefaced recent issues. The journal is open to both aspiring and recognized poets. The journal particularly invites submissions from refugees and the borderless. The journal is primarily interested in living poets who believe words carry the gift of positive social change. "The mission of this journal is to reveal the human face of poetry as a statement of urgency in today's world. The journal is open to all aesthetic and stylistic orientations, but submissions should be a seed for social change along humanist principles without indulging in political or nationalist rhetoric." Just released, an issue dedicated to Contemporary Hungarian Poetry, guest edited by Eniko Bollobas of Eötvös Loránd University, Budapest. A copy of which is being presented to the Hungarian Prime Minister. To purchase copies of this Hungarian issue, or other back issues: http://oregonstate.edu/dept/foreign_lang/totopos/index.html For our next issue, we are in the process of reading the nearly 400 submissions for our Indigenous Americas: Poetry by Indigenous Peoples of the Western Hemisphere issue, guest edited by Allison Hedge Coke, Northern Michigan University. In May, Ms. Hedge Coke addressed the United Nations regarding the effect of publication impact on Indigenous Human Rights. Future themes include Contemporary Turkish Poetry and Contemporary Belgian Poetry. Our 2004 issue on Forests features an introduction by Winona LaDuke and was given a favorable review in the prominent French poetry journal, Friches. The 2005 issue on North African Voices was featured on www.babelmed.net. We just received an Oregon Literary Arts Fellowship for Publishers grant earlier this year. Our pages include works by the likes of academics, asylum inmates, Nobel and Pulitzer candidates, scholars, and farmers. For more information or to order back issues: http://oregonstate.edu/dept/foreign_lang/totopos/index.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:51:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Pictures from Robert Creeley's 80th birthday celebration Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A Poet in Buffalo: A Community Celebration of the Life & Work of Robert Creeley (1926-2005) on the Occasion of his 80th Birthday A few images of good company by Geoffrey Gatza! http://www.geoffreygatza.com/RC80/ Best, Geoffrey =A0 Geoffrey Gatza BlazeVOX [books] www.blazevox.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:44:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Ginsberg B-Day Tribute Poem on "Stoning the Devil" Comments: To: a.waldman@mindspring.com, jgens@sover.net, cdeniord@nec.edu, jeffreyethan@att.net, sglassman@comcast.net, "cmccabe@rfh.org.uk" , mgwaters@salisbury.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As today (6/3/06) would've been Allen Ginsberg's 80th B-Day, I'm deciding to bury the hatchet once & for all and, in a display of egalitarian elan, am publishing an unabashedly "Beat" Ginsberg pastiche (of "Pull My Daisy") on Stoning the Devil (www.adamfieled.blogspot.com). It's today's post....check it out!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:52:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Loretta Clodfelter Subject: Call for Submissions - There MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There, a newly launched online magazine, is seeking innovative poetry, art, and essays with an emphasis on issues of place, environment, land, people, history, fact, and politics. There is currently accepting poetry and other work for its inaugural issue. For more information, visit http://www.therejournal.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:50:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deb King Subject: mark(s) new release In-Reply-To: <20060603024414.52947.qmail@web54505.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit mark(s) 7.01 features: Jeff Gerber - bottle paintings Ted Pearson - poetry Sharon Que - sculpture Ron Silliman - poetry Tamiko Thiel - net.art This site requires a minimum screen resolution of 800x600 for viewing. http://www.markszine.com If links in this message do not work in your email browser, paste http://www.markszine.com into the location bar of your browser to view mark(s). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 10:51:52 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Ed Roberson performs tomorrow (Sun, June 4th) at Pri nter's Row Book Fair... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ed Roberson will read his poetry in a performance with The Ways & Means Trio at 1:30 p.m. on Sunday, June 4 during the 22nd Annual Chicago Tribune Printer’s Row Book Fair Ed Roberson is the author of the newly released book of poems, City Eclogue, 2006; Atmosphere Conditions, winner 2000 National Poetry Award series; Voices Cast Out to Talk Us In, winner of the 1994 Iowa Poetry Prize; as well as earlier books including When Thy King Is a Boy; Etai-Eken; and Lucid Interval as Integral Music. A recipient of many other awards, Roberson is recently become a resident of Chicago’s Bronzeville. The performance will happen on the Gwendolyn Brooks Poetry Stage, which is at the intersection of Dearborn and Harrison Avenues. This is the seventh event in the ongoing Lower & Upper Limits series. Lower & Upper Limits explores collaborations between poets and musicians and relationships between language and music. The Ways & Means Trio is Jayve Montgomery (reeds, percussion, electronics), Joel Wanek (upright bass, percussion), and Daniel Godston (trumpet, percussion). The title of this series is taken from Louis Zukofsky’s “A-12”: “I’ll tell you. / About my poetics -- music / speech / An integral / Lower limit speech / Upper limit music.” Lower & Upper Limits happens at Muse Café on the third Tuesday of the month. For more info, call 312.543.7027 or visit www.musecafechicago.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 10:33:31 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Upstart Radios Mindwalk: 31: Driving to Baghdad w/ Burrougs, lord patch (aka ly braithwaite) & Sonic Youth MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Upstart Radios Mindwalk: 31: Driving to Baghdad Summary: This episode features audio of convoys and patrols by US & UK soldiers. Sounds of beating victims from the recent whistleblower video from the UK set to Klaus Nomi. William S Burroughs, Raymond Lafferty & Jody Paulson chime in, including Skits by Kanye West, US Soldiers on patrol, Rev. 99, Jody Paulson, US truck convoy, Lord Patch (lawrence y braithwaite), Charles Bukowski, Vera Lynn, Girl on Sybian, Iraqi Victims Reprise http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/mindwalkthirtyonerevb128.mp3 Credits: Klaus Nomi, UK Soldiers and Teenage Iraqi Victims, UK Soldiers on patrol, Sonic Youth, William S. Burrougs, Raymond Lafferty, Skits by Kanye West, US Soldiers on patrol, Rev. 99, Jody Paulson, US truck convoy, Lord Patch (lawrence y braithwaite), Charles Bukowski, Vera Lynn, Girl on Sybian, Iraqi Victims Reprise Mindwalk 31: Driving to Baghdad Download broadcast quality mp3 or find rss feed from ourmedia here: http://www.ourmedia.org/node/168284 & Download broadcast quality mp3 from radio4all.net here: http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=16703 TRT 29:30 Stereo 128/44 27meg mp3 Mindwalk contains EXPLICIT CONTENT. licensed broadcasters should air during SAFE HARBOR. HTTP Download: http://www.radio4all.net/pub/files/lennonvideo@sbcglobal.net/1249-1-20060220-mindwalkthirtyoneREVb128.mp3 FTP Download: ftp://www.radio4all.net/pub/files/lennonvideo@sbcglobal.net/1249-1-20060220-mindwalkthirtyoneREVb128.mp3 ___ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" \ "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:28:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Happy Birthday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "hammond guthrie" To: "Joel" Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: Happy Birthday HAPPY BIRTHDAY ALLEN GINSBERG born on this day in 1926 "Click My Daisy!" http://emptymirrorbooks.com/thirdpage/daisy.html * Allen in London for his 40th birthday party. This photo was taken by my friend Hoppy moments before John Lennon his often sited comment to Allen: "You don't do that in front of the birds!" asever Hammond ******* "Against the ruin of the world, there is only one defense: the creative act." - Kenneth Rexroth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 14:58:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: laptop needed Comments: To: wryting-l@listserv.utoronto.ca, companyofpoets@unlikelystories.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anyone out there with an old less than 5 years laptop pc thing they want to donate to me there that's honest enough let me know mine's totally cavin in small space so that's all i can fit here working on third or forth donated one now dell inspiron 3200 outdated slow but hey e me back channel if ya want thanks sd ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 20:02:14 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Greenlaw Ave: Michael Anthony Osbourne (aka Mc Ozzie) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greenlaw Ave http://www.greenlawave.com/mp3/cbcradio1bigcitysmallworld.mp3 Combining urban soul with a touch of jazz, for a smooth, organic sound. Front woman Skyla J's, contagious vocal style, dreamy flute playing and honest lyrics has been compared to an "early Jill Scott meets India Irie" by UK's Fmagazine. Skyla J has been writing and performing for over ten years. In 2002 Skyla's track "Next Une" was released as a single on DJ Teknosteps album "Music For Short Attention Spans". This tune now has five International remixes including an issue by Chicago Producer, Roy Davis Jr. The beauty that comes from her lyrics and voice is a reflection of her dedicated spiritual lifestyle soulful uplift. Michael Anthony Osbourne (aka Mc Ozzie) has been on the music scene for over fifteen years as a ground breaking Jamaican poet and musician. His original behind-the-beat-bass instrumentation and edgy lyrics add even more weight to an already heavy vibe. These two talented musicians have been working together for over eight years and provide the backbone of Greenlaw Ave. After a whirlwind cross-Canada tour in Spring / Summer 2003, Greenlaw Ave dropped down in Victoria, B.C. where in only six months they took the city by storm. At B.C's, Monday Mag Awards, Greenlaw Ave won "Most Memorable Show of 2003" and were the most nominated artists. They played a sold out farewell performance featuring Universal artist Kia Kadiri before heading off to take on the UK. Within weeks of arriving in the UK, they were embraced by four major music collectives in London: Ghetto Lounge, Soul Baby, SEB and Raison D'etre. Quoted as "hotly tipped" by Chiswick Times, Greenlaw Ave was regularly featured as a not to be missed headlining act at London's top venues: Cargo, Spitz, Ten Rooms, Blue Jay Jazz Lounge, amongst others. Since May 2003, Greenlaw has played over 350 solid performances in Canada and the UK. With two successful indie tours on their resume, and a loving, growing International fan base, Formation Records, Britain's longest running Indie Label, took notice of Greenlaw Ave and signed them. Just Haven't Gotten There Yet http://www.greenlawave.com/mp3/Just_Havent.mp3 Time and Energy http://www.greenlawave.com/mp3/TimeandEnergy.mp3 All Around Me http://www.greenlawave.com/mp3/All_Around_Me.mp3 ___ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" \ "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 02:52:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Kluge vidoes online Comments: To: ubuweb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've finally managed to upload all of the videos for my Kluge project. check them out! http://www.arras.net/fscIII/ I showed some of these at my last reading in New York. They might take a while to download, so I suggest right-clicking and saving target. Brian ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 09:12:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Night Air (NYC event) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed NIGHT AIR Poetry/Art Collaborations: Francie Shaw & Bob Perelman Susan Bee & Charles Bernstein *reading from their collaborations* Thurs. June 8th 7:30 pm @ A.I.R. Gallery @ 511 W 25th St., New York In connection with the concurrent show BEFORE WATER A Collaboration by Francie Shaw & Bob Perelman - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - http://epc.bufflo.edu/authors/bernstein http://epc.bufflo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog http://rsspect.com/rss/bernsteinweblog.xml ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 10:53:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Kluge vidoes online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit love kluge where did you read in ny ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 18:50:53 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: Teaching Position in Poland In-Reply-To: <20060207061640.78994.qmail@web37312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Department of American Literature and Culture at the University of Lodz, Poland, invites applications for the position of Visiting Lecturer for either the winter semester (October-January) or both winter and spring semesters of the 2006-2007 academic year. A graduate degree in English or related field in the humanities is required. Teaching responsibilities are twelve hours each semester, including courses in Practical English. Students enrolled in the English-language program are typically at the Cambridge First Certificate level (FCE), and responsive to a wide range of contemporary cultural, political and literary materials. Compensation is 2925 pln monthly, approximately 1000 U.S. dollars. University housing is provided, the rent for which averages 450-520 pln monthly, approximately 150-175 U.S. dollars. Healthcare and pension benefits are included. If you are interested in this position, please send your CV and contact information for three references to Prof. dr. hab. Jadwiga Maszewska at jadwigamasz@yahoo.com by July 31, 2006. Any requests for further information are also welcome either by email or phone: 48-42-712-38-66. Please forward this invitation to anyone or any mailing list where there may be interest in teaching English in Poland. Lodz, second only to Warsaw in population, is situated near the center of Poland. Travel to Warsaw is two hours, and Cracow four hours, by train or bus. Travel by train or bus to Berlin and Prague, and travel by air to England, is convenient and inexpensive. http://www.uni.lodz.pl/ang/portal/ http://www.filolog.uni.lodz.pl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 18:12:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Morey Subject: Re: Postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have been reading this conversation intently for days and am a bit baffled by some of the statments. Humans have always had the ability to destroy themselves and the rest of the Earth. The change, I believe, is in the relationship between man and his own mind. There is a greater understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things to be looked at more critically and more sharply. All history is new with each new discovery. The future is then, now, and beyond. Humans have new tools to question things with: computers, psychology, the theory of relativity, new diseases, new cures, and social and govermental ideas. It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware that there is always another evolution on the horizon. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 16:47:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <4676.169.226.177.213.1149459175.squirrel@webmail.albany.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 4-Jun-06, at 3:12 PM, Adam Morey wrote: > I have been reading this conversation intently for days and am a bit > baffled by some of the statments. Humans have always had the ability > to > destroy themselves and the rest of the Earth. That is simply not true. They could do that in 5000 BC? I don't think so. Unless you think big old God would wipe it all out because they were acting badly. George H. Bowering Fears a symmetrical oyster. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 17:12:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Warren Lloyd Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <4676.169.226.177.213.1149459175.squirrel@webmail.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree. It seems to me one of the most relevant paradigmatic shifts taking place within the idea of post-modernism has less to do with ability and more to do with means. The prevalent self-consciousness of modernism has adorned our psychology, science, ( particularly popular) etc. , or should I say rendered our ' understanding' of such, with binary tensions stemming, perhaps, from the very impulse of introspection right on through nationalism and empirical science. It is the means by which we have devised our appendages( tools) of 'understanding' , that perhaps might be noteworthy as one aspect of what it might mean to be post-modern. One need not look much further than the development of the medical gaze over the last century, contemporary medical imaging, facial coding systems or surveillance technology, to recognize that it has been in great part due to the innate characteristics of instrumentation itself ( editing, myth, etc..) that has modeled what can be considered our post-modern visual culture. The barriers between the object,subject and their instrumentation are becoming quickly blurred. Instrumentation is being implanted and vice -verse. This, of course, to wonderful, life saving and progressive ends as well as to horrific and deadly ends. Adam Morey wrote : I have been reading this conversation intently for days and am a bit baffled by some of the statments. Humans have always had the ability to destroy themselves and the rest of the Earth. The change, I believe, is in the relationship between man and his own mind. There is a greater understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things to be looked at more critically and more sharply. All history is new with each new discovery. The future is then, now, and beyond. Humans have new tools to question things with: computers, psychology, the theory of relativity, new diseases, new cures, and social and govermental ideas. It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware that there is always another evolution on the horizon. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 20:49:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: TbT HIMALAYA NEWS--ALEX 3 Comments: To: Thomas Clouse , Stacey Duff , josh hinck , Irena Hingarova , John Joyce , Peter Klauza , Jonathan Litton , Bob Marcacci , Phillip Nessen , Stephen Nessen , Harry Nudel , Jake Schall , Lillian Stapleton , Bobby Tam In-Reply-To: <4481C7EB.3050407@shaw.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quote from dear friend who is a writer of essays and poems, former publisher of Democratic Tibet, Tibetan Youth Congress contributor, poet and historian who made the LONG MARCH to Nepal, India (and not for holiday--and not unlike so many Tibetans, but very much unlike MAO), "The measure of violence is to act secondly, a concessionary forgiveness, the first." He is a proud man, even when he stands shoeless, as he has done at odd times and for many years, or bends over because of rectal disease (years of cold and wet floors), or looks unsure as he asks a friend (newcomer or Tibetan whose relative managed to escape to the US or Swizterland and WEStern unioned some funds, as they say) for money. I am reminded of an American friend, who pointedly told me just how the Tibetans he witnessed selling their wares seemed, well, happy existing under conditions again and again described with terms like occupation, genocide and plain-spoken bad. I held my breath upon his regurgitation, thinking for a moment of James Baldwin's Blues for Mr. Charlie. Too, I was reminded of the first 'concentration camps'--work camps, ghettos--visited by the Red Cross during Hitler's reign (and I am specifically thinking of Terezin, Czech Republic). It was observed, and this is a matter of recorded history, that the children seemed well adapted to the conditions they were subjected to, and that this arrangement seemed acceptable. Of course, the Jewish children had been given candy and restrictions had been made more flexible with the expectations of the Red Cross' arrival. Oh, and what a swell time it must have been!As an American, I am also reminded of how black folk were depicted as jolly during slave days through Jim Crowe -- and how some of the most vital and soulful culture was ever produced in the face of abysmal odds and with the assistance of the same kind of folks. Too, I am amazed how adept middle class folks parading as anti-globalization hippies can be when it comes to ambivalence and bargain shopping. report3 AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:53:11 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Dan Sargent's Sapphic Derivations Is Now Available from Ahadada Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We are proud to announce that Dan Sargent's Sapphic Derivations is now available as a free download from Ahadada Books. The book and information about the author are available at www.ahadadabooks.com. Our library of e-books now numbers nine, and all are free for the clicking. O Taste and See! Jess ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 21:13:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Allan Ginsberg and E.E. Cummings: Re: TbT HIMALAYA NEWS--ALEX 4 In-Reply-To: <20060605034933.89266.qmail@web53903.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit He doesn't have citizenship anywhere in the world. He can't leave this 'refugee camp,' but the police harrass him by 9 pm (if he's foolish enough to venture out at this hour). If caught, because he has no official status, he will be returned to China--and be greeted less than cheerfully for his heroic departure from "If you going showing pictures of Chairman Mao" PR China more than nine years ago and for his dissident views. It should be pointed out that Tibetans like D. are loosely permitted in India under the pretense of being relatives of HH. The Indian government, however, does not officially welcome or encourage the arrival of Tibetan refugees--in fact, their is much animosity (and, of course, land is also part of the equation). To continue, his friend K., also a writer, admires Allan Ginsberg and says many Tibetans love Whitman and American free verse. Another friend, W., and he is lucky (because his older brother, who crossed into Nepal caring for his three siblings was able to make his way to France), shows me three burns on his arm, the size of quarters each--and they were made before it was learned just how shameful "I love Tibet" was. The place seems to be filled with Israeli's, which is interesting and ironic, perhaps. In state of being a refugee, where days simply go--somewhere--and God continues to live in the sky, we all sip this freedom and pretend we like it! rpt4 aj --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 22:52:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry Warren, Adam, but these two statements confuse me. Adam, you say: "There is a greater understanding of psychology and = physics that allows all things to be looked at more critically and = sharply." And, you precede that with "The change, I believe, is the = relationship between man and his own mind." All of which I take to = mean the change from modernism to postmodernist derives from the point = that postmodern folks have a greater understanding of their anxieties, = phobias, quirks, and general idiosyncratic behaviors than their = predecessors, the moderns=20 Such a statement seems to dismiss the relevance of actuality, the = conditions of the real world surrounding the comprehension of that = "...relationship between man and his own mind." In short, the statement = seems to me to teeter on the brink of idealist thought. =20 Now, please don't misunderstand nor misinterpret my point here as = critical of you or your thinking...hell, you may be 100% accurate. I am = after all the one seeking to understand the distinction and looking for = an answer to the question: "What constitutes a postmodernist?" And I = think it is critical here to point out I'm not looking for an answer to = the question "who are the postmodernists?" That question comes only = with a host of names as its answer. I want the underlying explanation = for "why" these they are so labeled. And, Warren, it appears to me that you "agree" with exactly the opposite = of what it is that Adam defines as the essence of the post modern. I = frankly can't reconcile the statement, "The prevalent self-consciousness = of modernism has adorned our psychology, science..." with the above = statement by Adam. =20 Again, both of you, I'm not intending to argue or demean. I merely am = seeking answers, and these two comments seem to contradict each other at = the same time they claim agreement. =20 Also, from what I've been reading this past week (off the list) I'm = beginning to get the sense that distinction between the modernists and = the postmodernists is more a sense of a "desire" for a different label = than a genuine performance difference...the children just wanted to have = a name change. But my reading is far too limited at this point to allow = me to make that or any other conclusion. =20 Meanwhile, know this, all the comments are helpful, even those that are = difficult, or impossible to reconcile.=20 Thanks, Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Warren Lloyd=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Postmodernism? I agree. It seems to me one of the most relevant paradigmatic shifts = taking place within the idea of post-modernism has less to do with = ability and more to do with means. The prevalent self-consciousness of = modernism has adorned our psychology, science, ( particularly popular) = etc. , or should I say rendered our ' understanding' of such, with = binary tensions stemming, perhaps, from the very impulse of = introspection right on through nationalism and empirical science. It is = the means by which we have devised our appendages( tools) of = 'understanding' , that perhaps might be noteworthy as one aspect of what = it might mean to be post-modern. One need not look much further than the = development of the medical gaze over the last century, contemporary = medical imaging, facial coding systems or surveillance technology, to = recognize that it has been in great part due to the innate = characteristics of instrumentation itself ( editing, myth, etc..) that = has modeled what can be considered our post-modern visual culture. The barriers between the = object,subject and their instrumentation are becoming quickly blurred. = Instrumentation is being implanted and vice -verse. This, of course, to = wonderful, life saving and progressive ends as well as to horrific and = deadly ends. =20 Adam Morey > wrote : = I have been reading this conversation intently for days and am a bit baffled by some of the statments. Humans have always had the ability = to destroy themselves and the rest of the Earth. The change, I believe, = is in the relationship between man and his own mind. There is a greater understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things to be looked at more critically and more sharply. All history is new with = each new discovery. The future is then, now, and beyond. Humans have new = tools to question things with: computers, psychology, the theory of = relativity, new diseases, new cures, and social and govermental ideas. It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware that = there is always another evolution on the horizon. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20 http://mail.yahoo.com=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 06:57:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <4676.169.226.177.213.1149459175.squirrel@webmail.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > ... The change, I believe, is in > the relationship between man and his own mind. There is a greater > understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things to > be looked at more critically and more sharply.< But if I understand what postmodernists want to do clearly, as I may not, the goal of postmodernism is precisely the opposite: to AVOID looking at anything critically and sharply. Instead, postmodernism seems to be about regressing to a primitive, archaic, primordial, and NON-rational state. Even in discussions of the issue haven't we seen at least one of the defenders of post-modernism on this list resort to school-yard name-calling instead of engaging in any way critically or sharply with the issues at hand. On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > ... Humans have new > tools to question things with: computers, psychology, the theory of > relativity, new diseases, new cures, and social and govermental ideas.< But this is just what the postmodernists deny! They want to revert to primitivist, non-rational, primordial barbarism, not new cures and new ideas. On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware that > there is always another evolution on the horizon.< Postmodernism's denial of rationality appreciates antiquity? On 4 Jun 2006 at 17:12, Warren Lloyd wrote: > ... It seems to me one of the most relevant paradigmatic shifts > taking place within the idea of post-modernism has less to do with > ability and more to do with means. ... > The barriers between the object,subject > and their instrumentation are becoming quickly blurred. ... This, > of course, [leads] to wonderful, life saving and progressive ends > as well as to horrific and deadly ends. Well, then, it's not a paradigmatic shift between ability and means, is it? Not that there seems to be much to choose, in fact, between "ability" and "means", after all. What is ability but means? What is means but ability? It's just this kind of confusion that seems so typical of the discourse of the advocates and defenders of postmodernism. After looking closely at what is said, it turns out that nothing much is actually said -- and what is said seems recursive or to be just plain nonsense. The problem Mr Lloyd seems to be trying to identify is the same old problem of the relationship between means and ENDS, not between "ability and ... means". This is not, of course, a new problem -- and confusing and conflating ends with means doesn't make it new. Perhaps, though, confusing and conflating ends and means is what is most postmodern about this sort of analysis? Do you do it on purpose? Is that what postmodernism is, after all: making the same old mistakes over again? Watch out, ladies: in the bad old days they stoned and burned uppity women. What rough beast, its hour come round again, slouches towards us? Marcus Advice to Young Ladies AD Hope A.U.C. 334: about this date, For a sexual misdemeanor which she denied, The vestal virgin Postumia was tried; Livy records it among affairs of state. They let her off: it seems she was perfectly pure; The charge arose because some thought her talk Too witty for a young girl, her eyes, her walk Too lively, her clothes too smart to be demure. The Pontifex Maximus, summing up the case, Warned her in future to abstain from jokes, To wear less modish and more pious frocks. She left the court reprieved, but in disgrace. What then? With her the annalist is less Concerned than what the men achieved that year: Plots, quarrels, crimes, with oratory to spare -- I see Postumia with her dowdy dress, Stiff mouth and listless step; I see her strive To give dull answers. She had to knuckle down. A vestal virgin who scandalized that town Had fair trial, then they buried her alive. Alive, bricked up in suffocating dark; A ration of bread, a pitcher if she was dry, Preserved the body they did not wish to die Until her mind was quenched to the last spark. How many the black maw has swallowed in its time! Spirited girls who would not know their place, Talented girls who found that the disgrace Of being a woman made genius a crime. How many others, who would not kiss the rod, Domestic bullying broke or public shame? Pagan or Christian, it was much the same: Husbands, St. Paul declared, rank next to God. Livy and Paul, it may be, never knew That Rome was doomed; each spoke of her with pride. Tacitus, writing after both had died, Showed that whole fabric rotten, through and through. Historians spend their lives and lavish ink Explaining how great commonwealths collapse From great defects of policy -- perhaps The cause is sometimes simpler than they think. It may not seem so grave an act to break Postumia's spirit as Galileo's, to gag Hypatia as crush Socrates, or drag Joan as Giordano Bruno to the stake. Can we be sure? Have more states perished, then, For having shackled the enquiring mind, Than those who, in their folly not less blind, Trusted the servile womb to breed free men? --AD Hope ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 07:52:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Fwd: A Reading for an Opening at the FusionArts Museum this Thursday, June 8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > FusionArts Museum > 57 Stanton Street > (between Forsyth & Eldridge Streets on the Lower East Side) > NYC 10002 > 212.995.5290 > www.artnet.com/fusionartsmuseum.html > > gallery B > > Taisuke Morishita > presents: > > "Cockroach - The Unconsideration > Against the Submission" > > > Thursday, June 1, 2006 through Thursday, June 29, 2006 > > Opening reception on Thursday, June 8, 2006 > > 5:00 pm > > Al Gori's Homespun Merry-Go-Round > > 8:00 pm > > Spoken word featuring > R. Nemo Hill, Halvard Johnson, Judy Kamilhor, > Jean Lehrman, Jane Ormerod, Larissa Shmailo, > Miriam Stanley, and Nathan Whiting > Hosted by Bob Heman > > 9:00 pm > > The Dustballs > Electro Country - Clash with newlyweds > Shauna Lane & Aric Shunneson > > 9:45 pm > > Music - Joe Maynard & Roy Derien > > > > > > Bob Heman > clwnwr@earthlink.net > EarthLink Revolves Around You. > > "Balthus is a painter about whom nothing is known." --Balthus Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 07:02:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Heretical Texts Vol. 2.1: Diane Ward Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed New from Heretical Texts: FLIM-YOKED SCRIM by Diane Ward Factory School. 2006. 60 pages, perfect bound, 6.5x9. $12 / $10 direct order Flim-Yoked Scrim continues Diane Ward's exploration of the shifting=20 points where form and content meet, where viewer and viewed log in=20 "presence," and where intent and action listen in to one another's=20 baited breath.=A0 The desired result is the unending product.=A0 About Heretical Texts: This series investigates and challenges the=20 assumption that poetry, as art and communication activity, is=20 political. Central to the Heretical Texts mission is a focused=20 imagining of 'political poetry' as a form of public intervention,=20 invention, and invocation that calls on language to call out a public,=20= a people. Volume One: 1. Dan Featherston, United States 2. Laura Elrick, Fantasies in Permeable Structures 3. Linh Dinh, Borderless Bodies 4. Sarah Menefee, Human Star 5. kari edwards, obedience Volume Two: 1. Diane Ward, Flim-Yoked Scrim 2. Steve Carll, Tracheal Centrifuge 3. Kristin Prevallet, Shadow Evidence Intelligence 4. Brian Kim Stefans, What is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers 5. Carol Mirakove, Mediated Order direct from Factory School:=20 http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/order.html Also available through Small Press Distribution:=20 http://www.spdbooks.org/ Volume 3 (winter 2006) will feature work by Ammiel Alcalay, Catherine=20 Daly, Nick Piombino, Heriberto Yepez, and Meg Hammill. For more about the Heretical Texts series:=20 http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/index.html For more about this and other Factory School projects:=20 http://www.factoryschool.org Contact: info "at" factoryschool.org [or reply backchannel to this=20 email] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 08:05:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Marzahl Subject: another post(modernist) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Alex, On the matter of reconciliation, I wonder if you aren't encountering certain paradoxes and antinomies which are, to my mind, not to be resolved. That is, I think of contradictions as driving thought or paradoxes as the seeds of thinking, but I don't expect them to disappear. (Is that a postmodern position, or one from antiquity?) I realize, too, that you didn't ask for more names, but as it happens I've been reading David Antin of late and for what it's worth I would point to a couple of pieces. The first was a presentation given at the MLA ("the notion of appearing here seemed to me a little like the invitation of a pheasant to a banquet" he says!) called, simply, "Is There a Postmodernism?" I know it from the "Bucknell Review" 25.2 (theme: Romanticism, Modernism, Postmodernism), but perhaps someone else knows if it's been collected or re-printed elsewhere. The Spring 2001 issue of "The Review of Contemporary Fiction" is devoted to Antin and is also useful, especially the excerpt from Charles Bernstein's e-mail interview with Antin, which I guess has also been published in full as a book.) Two points from the short MLA essay: 1) The opening or closing, life or death, of metadiscourse(s), be they modernist or postmodernist, is often personal rather than epochal, i.e., for Antin modernism began in 1948 because that is when he encountered Eliot, Pound, and Stein. I think we can infer from this that we live in or in-between multiple chronotopes, and this may be why the figures of "ghosts" or "hauntology" are so powerful. 2) Antin concludes on this note: "I would like to suggest that one of the fundamental postmodern acts is the opening up once again of the question of where the domain of the arts should be, how they abut on the social and even natural sciences, as the social sciences are beginning to debate how much of their activity is science and how much art" (135). [This, I think, is congruent with Altieri.] A quarter of a century later, I think it's safe to say that the question is still open in some environments, taboo in others. Not everyone welcomes inter- or trans-disciplinarity, and I certainly do not see a widespread re-thinking of curricula. And yet I think Antin gets to the root of the issue when he says that "Just as there is no special isolated faculty of reason, there is no special faculty of feeling or emotion." Here there is, for me, no getting around theories of embodied cognition and metaphor (perhaps this is what others mean when they talk about a new relationship between humans and minds). I take Lakoff and Johnson's claims in "Philosophy in the Flesh" very seriously; reason is not a separate "faculty"--it piggybacks, if you like, on a neural architecture evolved for motor coordination, etc. This is not a matter of "regressing" to a primitive or archaic or irrational site for thinking, but acknowledging that, as Lakoff and Johnson put it, "The locus of reason (conceptual inference) would be the same as the locus of perception and motor control, which are bodily functions" (20). None of this is to say that periodization is impossible, but then we would be talking about postmodernITY, and as I recall someone has already recommended David Harvey's indispensable book. There are a lot of primers out there, but Omar Calabrese's "Neo-Baroque" (Princeton UP, 1992) is one of my favorite introductions to method in the arts and sciences, even if--maybe because--the examples through which he arrives at his titular characterization of the era (is it still ours?) come from the Eighties. Sorry for all the names, Alex. I'm not trying to be pedantic. But metadiscourses are today so bound up with signatures. Perhaps conversations would be easier if their insights found their way into a shared vernacular. Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 07:04:30 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Brit Po , New Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Proprioception Charles Olson’s other major manifesto On 750,000 weblog visitors A shout out to Zoe Strauss, Sylvia Legris, Catherine Wagner, and Robin Kemp The sexual politics of Projective Verse reading DuPlessis reading Olson Charles Olson, Objectivism & T.S. Eliot Breathing the syllable in Charles Olson’s “Projective Verse” Eliot Weinberger on New Directions Timothy Yu, Pamela Lu and Asian-American anthologies Some links: Margaret Rockwell Finch and her daughter Annie Five Afghani women poets Derek Walcott, Seamus Heaney Blogging and the First Amendment The DFA-List Democracy for America organizes progressive fundraising Andrew Schelling on New Directions Eliot Weinberger on New Directions Gilbert Sorrentino as critic Charles Olson on the syllable The simplest things last – Simplicities in Olson’s Projective Verse Mei-mei’s house, a 102-year-old poet and other miscellany More on lists including Playboy’s 25 sexiest novels (a note from Pam Rosenthal) Fetch Rae Armantrout’s new chapbook The uneven history of New Directions and its commitment to Pound-Williams tradition http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:27:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: June Boog: Burning Deck at 45 and The Clash, London Calling Live Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B- hi all, here's what's happening this month from your friends at boog city (and a mention of a new series beginning next month). best, david =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B- Boog City presents =20 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press =20 Burning Deck Press at 45 (Providence, R.I.) Tues. June 27, 6 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC =20 Event will be hosted by Burning Deck Press editors Rosmarie and Keith Waldrop Featuring readings from Michael Gizzi=20 Ray Ragosta Pam Rehm=20 Marjorie Welish With a soundtheaterpiece performance by Robert Quillen Camp There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. =20 Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B- Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues =20 For further information: 212-842-BOOG(2664), editor@boogcity.com http://www.burningdeck.com/ ******** =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B- ******** Boog City's Classic Albums Live presents our performer's choice album The Clash, London Calling Mon. June 19, 7:00 p.m., $8 Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. NYC with readings from: Todd Colby Sander Hicks Mitch Highfill Then The Clash, London Calling will be performed live in order: 1. London Calling Limp Richard 2. Brand New Cadillac The Leader 3. Jimmy Jazz Dancin Dogs 4. Hateful The Trouble Dolls 5. Rudie Can't Fail Schwervon! Has Hot Pants 6. Spanish Bombs Randi Russo 7. The Right Profile The Trouble Dolls 8. Lost In The Supermarket The Marianne Pillsburys 9. Clampdown Schwervon! Has Hot Pants 10. The Guns Of Brixton The Leader 11. Wrong =B9Em Boyo Bob Kerr 12. Death Or Glory Bob Kerr 13. Koka Kola Randi Russo 14. The Card Cheat Cuomo! 15. Lover=B9s Rock Cuomo! 16. Four Horsemen Matt Lydon 17. I=B9m Not Down Matt Lydon 18. Revolution Rock Dibson T. Hoffweiler 19. Train In Vain Limp Richard Hosted by Boog City editor and publisher David Kirschenbaum Directions: F/V to Second Ave.; F to Delancey St.; J/M/Z to Essex St. Venue is between Stanton and Rivington streets. For further information: 212-842-BOOG(2664), 212-253-0036, editor@boogcity.com, or http://www.cake-shop.com/ *Cuomo! http://cuomogroup.net/ *Dancin Dogs http://www.myspace.com/dancindogs *Sander Hicks http://hicksforsenate.com/ *Mitch Highfill http://www.fauxpress.com/e/highfill.pdf *Dibson T. Hoffweiler http://dibson.net/epk/ *Limp Richard http://www.breedingground.com *Matt Lydon http://www.myspace.com/mattlydon *Randi Russo http://www.randirusso.com/ *Schwervon! Has Hot Pants http://www.olivejuicemusic.com/schwervon.html http://www.myspace.com/schwervon http://www.olivejuicemusic.com/pantsuit.html http://www.myspace.com/tobygoodshank http://tobygoodshank.multiply.com/ *The Leader http://www.myspace.com/theleadernyc http://www.olivejuicemusic.com/theleader.html *The Marianne Pillsburys http://www.mariannepillsbury.com/ *The Trouble Dolls http://www.troubledolls.net/ ******** =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B- ******** Garden Party with Olive Juice Music and Boog City a summer series in the Suffolk Street Community Garden (Suffolk St., bet. Houston & Stanton sts.) Sat. July 8, 2:00 p.m. readings from Joanna Fuhrman and Tanya Larkin music from Paris-based Lisa Lilund and Major Matt Mason --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 08:02:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Gerardo Yepiz: New Paintings on PFS Post! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "The paintings of Gerardo Yepiz are a lively mix of Basquiat's Neo-Expressionist primitivism & intense visceral energy, the cool irony of Warhol & Lichtenstein's Pop works, & the painterly textures & vigorous brushwork of original AE masters de Kooning & Kline. Abstract but passionate, these paintings create dense, layered atmospheres w/ bold color-fields & harmonies & equally bold formal configurations. Repeated images signify "hooks", parts of the paintings that leap to our attention & stay there, while cool or warm color patterns determine the ambience of each particular work. The overall impression left by these paintings is of a rich, multi-leveled world in which the last fifty years of American painting are synthesized." Check out three prints of Yepiz's best work on PFS Post (www.artrecess.blogspot.com). Also, the next Neo-Formalist thesis is up on Stoning the Devil (www.adamfieled.blogspot.com). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:20:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: Pianoless Vexations June 11 NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Pianoless Vexations Sunday, June 11 2006 The Sculpture Center, Long Island City, NY 10:55am-7:00pm An eight-hour performance of Erik Satie's famous piano composition Vexations (1893), scored for any instrument except piano. PIANOLESS VEXATIONS SCHEDULE (as of 6/02/06 - subject to change) 10:55am-11:20am Randy Nordschow (laptop) 11:20am-11:40am Jay Sanders (guitar) 11:40am-12:00pm Bruce Pearson (laptop) 12:00pm-12:20pm Daphna Mor, Rachel Begley, and Nina Stern (recorders) 12:20pm-12:40pm Bruce Arnold Jazz Trio (jazz) 12:40pm-1:00pm Alan Licht and Angela Jaeger (guitar & voice) 1:00pm-1:20pm String Messengers (bluegrass) 1:20pm-1:40pm Rusty Santos (sampler) 1:40pm-2:00pm Amy Granat (violin) 2:00pm-2:20pm Greg Kelley (trumpet) 2:20pm-2:40pm Miguel Frasconi (glass & toy piano) 2:40pm-3:00pm Bethany Ryker (French horn) 3:00pm-3:20pm Eddie Davis and Erik Carlson (violin & guitar) 3:20pm-3:40pm Zachary Seldess (laptop) 3:40pm-4:00pm Charles Waters and Katie Pawluk (sax & viola) 4:00pm-4:20pm Andrew Lampert (film) 4:20pm-4:40pm Margaret Leng Tan (toy piano) 4:40pm-5:00pm Trudy Chan (harpsichord) 5:00pm-5:20pm David Grubbs (guitar) 5:20pm-5:40pm Goddess & Andy Newman (voice, fiddles) 5:40pm-6:00pm Matthew Ostrowski (laptop) 6:00pm-6:20pm Kenta Nagai (shamisen) 6:20pm-6:40pm Stephin Merritt (marimaba) 6:40pm-7:00pm Rick Moody and Hannah Marcus (guitar & cello) Conceptualized by Kenneth Goldsmith Musical Directors & Curators: Alan Licht, Frank Oteri & Anthony Huberman For more info, contact: Heidi Ihrig SculptureCenter 718.361.1750 x115 hihrig@sculpture-center.org The Sculpture Center 44-19 Purves Street Long Island City, NY 11101 T: 718 361 1750 F: 718 786 9336 http://www.sculpture-center.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 08:33:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: FW: Gay Marriage/ Petition Frist In-Reply-To: <4835366ee6480e9fe2cb34a619342e84@localhost.localdomain> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I suspect it=B9s a real good idea to jam Frist, Bush & Co. as quickly as possible on this latest homophobic gas bomb =AD i.e., the amendment to make gay marriage illegal. Sorry for any cross-posting. Stephen V=20 ------ Forwarded Message From: Senator Harry Reid Reply-To: info@dscc.org Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:32:48 -0400 To: Stephen Vincent Subject: Gay Marriage Dear Stephen, Each week, Senator Frist and the Republican Leadership make choices about the Senate agenda. They could focus our work on record high gas prices, the war in Iraq, or skyrocketing health care costs. But there's an ugly truth: it's election season and down-in-the-polls Republicans are turning to their same old playbook - fear and division. Later this week, Bill Frist, in an attempt to appease extreme right wing elements of the Republican Party, has promised that the Senate will vote on the Federal Marriage Amendment and attempt to write discrimination into the Constitutio= n for the first time in 230 years. Join me in telling Senator Frist, "The Senate should be working on real issues - not writing discrimination into the Constitution" by visiting the DSCC's website: http://www.dscc.org/realissues/act This divisive and unnecessary amendment that would undermine the Constitution has overwhelmingly failed each time the Senate has voted on it. We don't need another Terri Schiavo moment where we spend valuable time away from the important work that needs to be done. Now, more than ever, it's time to focus on security, solutions for the high cost of healthcare and gas prices= . But you know Bill Frist and the Republican Leadership can't be trusted to address real issues. After all, Senate Republicans and their big oil friends have forced more than ten votes to drill for oil in ANWR, but not a single vote to lower gas prices. They spent months trying to privatize Social Security, but Bill Frist can't find room in the schedule to raise th= e minimum wage or provide funding for Stem Cell research. We need a Presiden= t and a Congress that doesn't play divisive politics. At a time of war, Republicans should unite the country and focus on the real issues, not divide and undermine its founding principles. http://www.dscc.org/realissues/act Thank you, Harry Reid=20 You are receiving this email because you are supporter of ACT. We thought you would be interested in this important message. This is an opt-in email subscription managed by America Coming Together. T= o unsubscribe from this mailing, go here: http://activist.acthere.com/unsubscribe ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 13:22:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: OlsonNow Updates Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ON THE BLOG: John Hyland writes a scene report on the OlsonNow event at MIT http://olsonnow.blogspot.com/ OFF THE BLOG: Check out Ron Silliman's ongoing discussion of Olson's poetics: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:07:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Bredie Subject: Summer Readings at the McNally Robinson Bookstore [New York City] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All, if you are in New York over the summer, either a stranded native or a masochistic visitor, consider beating the heat at one of the following very cool [physically and conceptually] readings at the McNally Robinson Bookstore in sunny SoHo. Schedual is as follows: June 14 [Wednesday]--7PM Corina Copp Drew Gardner June 28[Wednesday]--7PM Kristin Prevallet Monica de la Torre July 10[Monday]--7PM Paul Violi Sarah Manguso July 26[Wednesday]--7PM Jessica Fjeld Timothy Donnelly August 8[Wednesday]--7PM Gary Sullivan Jim Behrle August 23[Wednesday]--7PM Jordan Davis Matvei Yankelevich for more information, visit Cheers N ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:31:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: PUB: call for submissions--torch: poetry, prose, and short stories by african am Comments: cc: Caribpoets MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT >>PUB: call for submissions--torch: poetry, prose, and short stories by african american women ========================================================== From: www.torchpoetry.org Greetings, We are pleased to announce that the reading period for Torch: poetry, prose, and short stories is now open! From June 1 to August 31 we will accept poetry, prose, short stories, and art submissions by African American women. When submitting, please follow the guidelines listed below. • Torch accepts submissions via email only. • Send unpublished work for consideration. • We do not accept simultaneous submissions. • Include with your submission a brief cover letter and bio in the body of your email. • Send written work for consideration as an attached file: (MS Word). • You may submit in each genre; however, please do not send more than one submission in each genre per reading period. • Poetry: send two to seven poems (max 40 lines each). Poems should be individually typed and either single or double spaced on separate pages. Email submission with the subject line 'Poetry Submission' to poetry@torchpoetry.org . • Prose: send two prose pieces (max 500 words each). Prose and should be double-spaced. Email submission with the subject line 'Prose Submission' to prose@torchpoetry.org . • Short Stories: send one short story (max 2,000 words). Email submission with the subject line 'Short Story Submission' to shorts @torchpoetry.org . • Photography & Art: send one to three high resolution JPEG images. Email submission with the subject line 'Art Submission' to art@torchpoetry.org . Response time is approximately four to six weeks. If work is accepted for publication, notification will be sent via email. All published work will be archived online at www.torchpoetry.org . Submission questions should be sent to: info@torchpoetry.org Thank you for your support and we look forward to your submissions! Please forward widely. Amanda Johnston Editor http://www.torchportry.org ___ Stay Strong \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte\ \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and\ amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" \ "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:50:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Contact Info Request In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I need to send David Lehman his proof pages for the forthcoming issue of Sentence, but he seems to have changed his email address recently. I would be grateful to receive his current email address backchannel, if anyone has it. Much thanks, Brian ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:03:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simona Schneider Subject: Re: Summer Readings at the McNally Robinson Bookstore [New York City] In-Reply-To: <1149530850.448472e215d92@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dude, you should post the poster (thus the name) on the bbbblog. DO you need it as a jpeg? simona On 6/5/06, Nick Bredie wrote: > > Dear All, > if you are in New York over the summer, either a stranded native or > a masochistic visitor, consider beating the heat at one of the > following very cool [physically and conceptually] readings at the > McNally Robinson Bookstore in > sunny SoHo. Schedual is as follows: > > June 14 [Wednesday]--7PM > > Corina Copp > Drew Gardner > > June 28[Wednesday]--7PM > > Kristin Prevallet > Monica de la Torre > > July 10[Monday]--7PM > > Paul Violi > Sarah Manguso > > July 26[Wednesday]--7PM > > Jessica Fjeld > Timothy Donnelly > > August 8[Wednesday]--7PM > > Gary Sullivan > Jim Behrle > > August 23[Wednesday]--7PM > > Jordan Davis > Matvei Yankelevich > > > for more information, visit > > Cheers > N > -- s i m o n a * e v a * s c h n e i d e r http://tangiertelegram.blogspot.com simona.schneider@gmail.com nyc tel: (917) 957-7891 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 13:04:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: aaron tieger Subject: on behalf of Aaron Kiely/TORCH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Torch Magazine Issue #4, Poetry and Visual Art, is available. It's 8.5x11, stapled down the side. The visual work is reproduced in color. It costs $12.53 to make each copy. So, you can have it for the special rate of $12.00, two for $20.00. Please make checks out to Aaron Kiely, NOT Torch. Email aaron7k@hotmail.com if interested. Some of the focus of this issue is political work, but not exclusively. TORCH MAGAZINE #4 INCLUDES: Interview with Sharon Mesmer Writing from: Betsy Andrews, Ian Bascetta, Charles Bernstein, Sean Cole, CA Conrad, Filip Marinovic, R.L. Green, Aaron Kiely, Chris Martin, Tracey McTague, Sharon Mesmer, Kish Song Bear, Rodrigo Toscano Visual work from: Peter Fox (with Betsy Andrews), Esther Levine, Chris Martin, Paul Martin and Tracey McTague aarontieger.blogspot.com carvepoems.org soonproductions.org "Make a sudden, destructive unpredictable action; incorporate." (Brian Eno) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 16:35:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Warren Lloyd Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Alex, My 'agreement' was an effort to stabilize, said "teetering" in a polite attempt to suggest the very "relevance of actuality" that you mention in your response. I don't know of a more influential factor in " the real world surrounding our comprehensions of...." than vision and visual culture. As I said, I wasn't going to discuss ability, but instead, means. Discussing man's ability's at all( in the sense that it was used in the original statement),in itself, seems a little " idealistic", so 'means' seemed to be the best way to open up discussion in a humble way. Opening up a friendly conversation was all I was after.I guess I can see how you reached irreconcilability with my statement, in fact, I think the clarification has helped everyone involved.... Also I wasn't aware of the original question you posted. I was responding to a response. I have watched this conversation for a while and have been unaware of the original question: "What constitutes a postmodernist?". I'll have to chew on that for a while..... I think you are correct to assume as your, recent reading has led you to believe, that "desire" for difference was certainly at the root of most post-modern art, ( completely asside from post modernity) as it has been for all art , the labeling part, is usually up to someone else ( other modernists, French guysetc..) . Kids are given names; they don't choose them. Perhaps they declare nicknames, but those can only be documented by the authorities. Kids grow, they change, they get labeled. Thanks for the post. alexander saliby wrote: Sorry Warren, Adam, but these two statements confuse me. Adam, you say: "There is a greater understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things to be looked at more critically and sharply." And, you precede that with "The change, I believe, is the relationship between man and his own mind." All of which I take to mean the change from modernism to postmodernist derives from the point that postmodern folks have a greater understanding of their anxieties, phobias, quirks, and general idiosyncratic behaviors than their predecessors, the moderns Such a statement seems to dismiss the relevance of actuality, the conditions of the real world surrounding the comprehension of that "...relationship between man and his own mind." In short, the statement seems to me to teeter on the brink of idealist thought. Now, please don't misunderstand nor misinterpret my point here as critical of you or your thinking...hell, you may be 100% accurate. I am after all the one seeking to understand the distinction and looking for an answer to the question: "What constitutes a postmodernist?" And I think it is critical here to point out I'm not looking for an answer to the question "who are the postmodernists?" That question comes only with a host of names as its answer. I want the underlying explanation for "why" these they are so labeled. And, Warren, it appears to me that you "agree" with exactly the opposite of what it is that Adam defines as the essence of the post modern. I frankly can't reconcile the statement, "The prevalent self-consciousness of modernism has adorned our psychology, science..." with the above statement by Adam. Again, both of you, I'm not intending to argue or demean. I merely am seeking answers, and these two comments seem to contradict each other at the same time they claim agreement. Also, from what I've been reading this past week (off the list) I'm beginning to get the sense that distinction between the modernists and the postmodernists is more a sense of a "desire" for a different label than a genuine performance difference...the children just wanted to have a name change. But my reading is far too limited at this point to allow me to make that or any other conclusion. Meanwhile, know this, all the comments are helpful, even those that are difficult, or impossible to reconcile. Thanks, Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Warren Lloyd To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Postmodernism? I agree. It seems to me one of the most relevant paradigmatic shifts taking place within the idea of post-modernism has less to do with ability and more to do with means. The prevalent self-consciousness of modernism has adorned our psychology, science, ( particularly popular) etc. , or should I say rendered our ' understanding' of such, with binary tensions stemming, perhaps, from the very impulse of introspection right on through nationalism and empirical science. It is the means by which we have devised our appendages( tools) of 'understanding' , that perhaps might be noteworthy as one aspect of what it might mean to be post-modern. One need not look much further than the development of the medical gaze over the last century, contemporary medical imaging, facial coding systems or surveillance technology, to recognize that it has been in great part due to the innate characteristics of instrumentation itself ( editing, myth, etc..) that has modeled what can be considered our post-modern visual culture. The barriers between the object,subject and their instrumentation are becoming quickly blurred. Instrumentation is being implanted and vice -verse. This, of course, to wonderful, life saving and progressive ends as well as to horrific and deadly ends. Adam Morey > wrote : I have been reading this conversation intently for days and am a bit baffled by some of the statments. Humans have always had the ability to destroy themselves and the rest of the Earth. The change, I believe, is in the relationship between man and his own mind. There is a greater understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things to be looked at more critically and more sharply. All history is new with each new discovery. The future is then, now, and beyond. Humans have new tools to question things with: computers, psychology, the theory of relativity, new diseases, new cures, and social and govermental ideas. It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware that there is always another evolution on the horizon. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 17:08:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Warren Lloyd Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <4483D5DA.26997.3DB7D2E@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mr. Bales, It seems you have grossly misunderstood my statement to Adam. When I discussed a paradigmatic shift having to do with 'means' over 'ability', I was distilling his statement into two devices one of which I thought was worth discussing; that of 'means' , the means I refered to were the means in his statement ie. " the relationship between man and his own Mind". he uses,I think, psychology and physics or something... the point was to discuss the 'real' tools of the statement not vapor or ability, and I was certainly not trying to suggest some over sweeping generalization about the inversion of means and ends or ability or anything else. I was trying to, politely evoke conversation about 'real' things. I am new to this list, and it seems, one must really be diligent with the way one casually says something. Marcus Bales wrote: On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > ... The change, I believe, is in > the relationship between man and his own mind. There is a greater > understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things to > be looked at more critically and more sharply.< But if I understand what postmodernists want to do clearly, as I may not, the goal of postmodernism is precisely the opposite: to AVOID looking at anything critically and sharply. Instead, postmodernism seems to be about regressing to a primitive, archaic, primordial, and NON-rational state. Even in discussions of the issue haven't we seen at least one of the defenders of post-modernism on this list resort to school-yard name-calling instead of engaging in any way critically or sharply with the issues at hand. On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > ... Humans have new > tools to question things with: computers, psychology, the theory of > relativity, new diseases, new cures, and social and govermental ideas.< But this is just what the postmodernists deny! They want to revert to primitivist, non-rational, primordial barbarism, not new cures and new ideas. On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware that > there is always another evolution on the horizon.< Postmodernism's denial of rationality appreciates antiquity? On 4 Jun 2006 at 17:12, Warren Lloyd wrote: > ... It seems to me one of the most relevant paradigmatic shifts > taking place within the idea of post-modernism has less to do with > ability and more to do with means. ... > The barriers between the object,subject > and their instrumentation are becoming quickly blurred. ... This, > of course, [leads] to wonderful, life saving and progressive ends > as well as to horrific and deadly ends. Well, then, it's not a paradigmatic shift between ability and means, is it? Not that there seems to be much to choose, in fact, between "ability" and "means", after all. What is ability but means? What is means but ability? It's just this kind of confusion that seems so typical of the discourse of the advocates and defenders of postmodernism. After looking closely at what is said, it turns out that nothing much is actually said -- and what is said seems recursive or to be just plain nonsense. The problem Mr Lloyd seems to be trying to identify is the same old problem of the relationship between means and ENDS, not between "ability and ... means". This is not, of course, a new problem -- and confusing and conflating ends with means doesn't make it new. Perhaps, though, confusing and conflating ends and means is what is most postmodern about this sort of analysis? Do you do it on purpose? Is that what postmodernism is, after all: making the same old mistakes over again? Watch out, ladies: in the bad old days they stoned and burned uppity women. What rough beast, its hour come round again, slouches towards us? Marcus Advice to Young Ladies AD Hope A.U.C. 334: about this date, For a sexual misdemeanor which she denied, The vestal virgin Postumia was tried; Livy records it among affairs of state. They let her off: it seems she was perfectly pure; The charge arose because some thought her talk Too witty for a young girl, her eyes, her walk Too lively, her clothes too smart to be demure. The Pontifex Maximus, summing up the case, Warned her in future to abstain from jokes, To wear less modish and more pious frocks. She left the court reprieved, but in disgrace. What then? With her the annalist is less Concerned than what the men achieved that year: Plots, quarrels, crimes, with oratory to spare -- I see Postumia with her dowdy dress, Stiff mouth and listless step; I see her strive To give dull answers. She had to knuckle down. A vestal virgin who scandalized that town Had fair trial, then they buried her alive. Alive, bricked up in suffocating dark; A ration of bread, a pitcher if she was dry, Preserved the body they did not wish to die Until her mind was quenched to the last spark. How many the black maw has swallowed in its time! Spirited girls who would not know their place, Talented girls who found that the disgrace Of being a woman made genius a crime. How many others, who would not kiss the rod, Domestic bullying broke or public shame? Pagan or Christian, it was much the same: Husbands, St. Paul declared, rank next to God. Livy and Paul, it may be, never knew That Rome was doomed; each spoke of her with pride. Tacitus, writing after both had died, Showed that whole fabric rotten, through and through. Historians spend their lives and lavish ink Explaining how great commonwealths collapse From great defects of policy -- perhaps The cause is sometimes simpler than they think. It may not seem so grave an act to break Postumia's spirit as Galileo's, to gag Hypatia as crush Socrates, or drag Joan as Giordano Bruno to the stake. Can we be sure? Have more states perished, then, For having shackled the enquiring mind, Than those who, in their folly not less blind, Trusted the servile womb to breed free men? --AD Hope __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 23:19:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 34 Available Tuesday Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward --------------- Boog City 34 Available featuring: ***Our Politics section*** "But it was too late. I was too young, too brash, too rough around the edges. I was branded a =8Csocial capitalist.=B9 I was an outsider to the decision-making committee. And don=B9t get me started about the effect of my gonzo prank with Dick Cheney." --from You Can=B9t Always Get What You Want: Media Activist Hicks on the Green Party Trail by Sander Hicks ***Our Printed Matter section, edited by Mark Lamoureux*** "Simonds=B9 voice assumes a brazen authority, unafraid of its own momentum an= d revelatory in its own contradictions and metamorphoses." --Lamoureux on Sandra Simonds's Steam "Nester has an uncanny ability to coax a deeper meaning from a funny moment= , or vice versa. He does so quickly, typically within the space of a few lines, while social issues fall onto either end of his skewer."--Scott Glassman on Daniel Nester's The History of My World Tonight (Blazevox) ***Our Music section, edited by Jon Berger*** "It=B9s a pretty big place and it=B9s pretty full, mostly due to the headliner: Belle and Sebastian collaborator Monica Queen. Well, she may have had the draw, but I=B9m the one who had a bunch of really drunk guys chanting my name during her set. Equal parts embarrassing and delightful."--Phoebe Kreutz's Anarchy in the Phoebe (Kreutz, That Is): Our Hardcore Folk Singer Makes it to England--And Back! ***Art editor Brenda Iijima brings us work from Chelsea's Sook Jin Jo*** ***Our Poetry section, edited by Laura Elrick and Rodrigo Toscano*** --Alphabet City's Sally Silvers with Earning the Badges of Backlash speculum du jour histeria hersteria anti-choice sperm is the holy water of god --Harlem's LaTasha N. Nevada Diggs with !viva la villanelle! Te llama la pikaka loli, tu eres onaona ni nalu Cuando un azotador d=E1gb=E1 en una luminous la nana Ano k=E1na=B9ohe ese l=E1=EDs=ED sus sirena de Pu=B9ukapu! Lucid to =8Cawapuhi que =F3sa bautizaba ngahuru viva la villanelle: un macaronic (translation) Your name is jasmine cucumber, you are fragrant like waves When the caterpillar grows on a luminous spider, The fisherman is without his siren from sacred hill. Lucid and ginger like lagoons baptizing autumn --Bay Ridge's Jill Magi with New York City, Version 1 (from The Exhibitionary Complex) Disappointment at the pit forms a group around a poster of ruins then silently in white sneakers now markers of who was there or not sense of to teach them without agreeing seen as local off the subway. And photos from Sander Hicks and Phoebe Kreutz. ----- And thanks to our copy editor, Joe Bates. ----- Please patronize our advertisers: Bowery Poetry Club * http://www.bowerypoetry.com Big No One Records * http://www.andrewphilliptipton.com Litmus Press * http://www.litmuspress.org Study Abroad on the Bowery * http://www.boweryartsandscience.org ----- Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-BOOG (2664) ----- 2,000 copies of Boog City are distributed among, and available for free at, the following locations: EAST VILLAGE Acme Underground =20 Alt.coffee =20 Angelika Film Center and Caf=E9 Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings =20 Bowery Poetry Club=20 Caf=E9 Pick Me Up =20 CB=B9s 313 Gallery =20 CBGB=B9s=20 Continental =20 Lakeside Lounge =20 Life Caf=E9 =20 Living Room =20 Mission Caf=E9 =20 Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 Pianos =20 The Pink Pony =20 St. Mark=B9s Books =20 St. Mark=B9s Church =20 Shakespeare & Co. =20 Sidewalk Caf=E9 =20 Sunshine Theater =20 Tonic =20 Trash and Vaudeville =20 OTHER PARTS OF MANHATTAN Hotel Chelsea Poets House WILLIAMSBURG Bliss Caf=E9 Earwax =20 Galapagos =20 Northsix =20 Sideshow Gallery =20 Soundfix/Fix Cafe=20 Supercore Caf=E9 =20 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 23:19:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: new books Comments: To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA, companyofpoets@unlikelystories.org Comments: cc: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit new from ugly duckling presse yuko otomo the hand of the poet $8 includes shipping direct from author 192 spring street ny ny 10012 steve dalachinsky the final nite ( complete notes from a charles gayle notebook - 1987-2006 ) with 8 page color collage centerfold of gayle by john d'agostino 260 pages $16 plus $4 shipping can be gotten direct from author at above address or directly from the press also new steve dalachinsky st. lucie eyes on a plate poems based on a painting by francesco zurburan small pocket sized chap $5 including shipping ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 22:59:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marcus, Who gives a damn if you know what you are saying! I love the = poetry...is that "Post modernism?" =20 Alex=20 P.S. my wife and her friends love the A.D. Hope works. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Marcus Bales=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 3:57 AM Subject: Re: Postmodernism? On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > ... The change, I believe, is in > the relationship between man and his own mind. There is a greater > understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things to > be looked at more critically and more sharply.< But if I understand what postmodernists want to do clearly, as I may=20 not, the goal of postmodernism is precisely the opposite: to AVOID=20 looking at anything critically and sharply. Instead, postmodernism=20 seems to be about regressing to a primitive, archaic, primordial, and=20 NON-rational state. Even in discussions of the issue haven't we seen=20 at least one of the defenders of post-modernism on this list resort=20 to school-yard name-calling instead of engaging in any way critically=20 or sharply with the issues at hand. On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > ... Humans have new > tools to question things with: computers, psychology, the theory of > relativity, new diseases, new cures, and social and govermental = ideas.< But this is just what the postmodernists deny! They want to revert to=20 primitivist, non-rational, primordial barbarism, not new cures and=20 new ideas.=20 =20 On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware that > there is always another evolution on the horizon.< Postmodernism's denial of rationality appreciates antiquity? On 4 Jun 2006 at 17:12, Warren Lloyd wrote: > ... It seems to me one of the most relevant paradigmatic shifts > taking place within the idea of post-modernism has less to do with > ability and more to do with means. ... > The barriers between the object,subject > and their instrumentation are becoming quickly blurred. ... This,=20 > of course, [leads] to wonderful, life saving and progressive ends > as well as to horrific and deadly ends. =20 Well, then, it's not a paradigmatic shift between ability and means,=20 is it? Not that there seems to be much to choose, in fact, between=20 "ability" and "means", after all. What is ability but means? What is=20 means but ability?=20 It's just this kind of confusion that seems so typical of the=20 discourse of the advocates and defenders of postmodernism. After=20 looking closely at what is said, it turns out that nothing much is=20 actually said -- and what is said seems recursive or to be just plain=20 nonsense. The problem Mr Lloyd seems to be trying to identify is the=20 same old problem of the relationship between means and ENDS, not=20 between "ability and ... means". This is not, of course, a new=20 problem -- and confusing and conflating ends with means doesn't make=20 it new. Perhaps, though, confusing and conflating ends and means is=20 what is most postmodern about this sort of analysis? Do you do it on=20 purpose? Is that what postmodernism is, after all: making the same=20 old mistakes over again? Watch out, ladies: in the bad old days they=20 stoned and burned uppity women. What rough beast, its hour come round=20 again, slouches towards us? Marcus Advice to Young Ladies AD Hope A.U.C. 334: about this date,=20 For a sexual misdemeanor which she denied,=20 The vestal virgin Postumia was tried;=20 Livy records it among affairs of state.=20 They let her off: it seems she was perfectly pure;=20 The charge arose because some thought her talk=20 Too witty for a young girl, her eyes, her walk=20 Too lively, her clothes too smart to be demure.=20 The Pontifex Maximus, summing up the case,=20 Warned her in future to abstain from jokes,=20 To wear less modish and more pious frocks.=20 She left the court reprieved, but in disgrace.=20 What then? With her the annalist is less=20 Concerned than what the men achieved that year:=20 Plots, quarrels, crimes, with oratory to spare --=20 I see Postumia with her dowdy dress,=20 Stiff mouth and listless step; I see her strive=20 To give dull answers. She had to knuckle down.=20 A vestal virgin who scandalized that town=20 Had fair trial, then they buried her alive.=20 Alive, bricked up in suffocating dark;=20 A ration of bread, a pitcher if she was dry,=20 Preserved the body they did not wish to die=20 Until her mind was quenched to the last spark.=20 How many the black maw has swallowed in its time!=20 Spirited girls who would not know their place,=20 Talented girls who found that the disgrace=20 Of being a woman made genius a crime.=20 How many others, who would not kiss the rod,=20 Domestic bullying broke or public shame?=20 Pagan or Christian, it was much the same:=20 Husbands, St. Paul declared, rank next to God.=20 Livy and Paul, it may be, never knew=20 That Rome was doomed; each spoke of her with pride.=20 Tacitus, writing after both had died,=20 Showed that whole fabric rotten, through and through.=20 Historians spend their lives and lavish ink=20 Explaining how great commonwealths collapse=20 From great defects of policy -- perhaps=20 The cause is sometimes simpler than they think.=20 It may not seem so grave an act to break=20 Postumia's spirit as Galileo's, to gag=20 Hypatia as crush Socrates, or drag=20 Joan as Giordano Bruno to the stake.=20 Can we be sure? Have more states perished, then,=20 For having shackled the enquiring mind,=20 Than those who, in their folly not less blind,=20 Trusted the servile womb to breed free men?=20 --AD Hope ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:31:01 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Phantom Rooster Press -- Latest Volumes Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , poneme@lists.grouse.net.au, BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Comments: cc: Judy Prince , patrick@mcmanusp.freeserve.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following pamphlets are now available from the Phantom Rooster Press: Patrick McManus: CEMENT AND WATER (illustrated by Judy Prince) Judy Prince: POEMS (illustrated by the author) £3 (including UK p&P) Overseas orders, please contact the publisher to arrange terms. robin.hamilton2@btinternet.com Cheques to: Robin Hamilton, 69 Rydal Ave., Loughborough, LE11 3RU ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 07:36:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: 15 by Martha Deed Comments: To: announce@logolalia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii the minimalist concrete poetry site at: http://www.logolalia.com/minimalistconcretepoetry/ has been updated with 15 pieces by Martha Deed. There are poetries which seek (or simply end up) narrowing what it is possible for poetry to be, to do, to say. There are poetries which seek (or simply end up) expanding what it is possible for poetry to be, to do, to say. Each has their merits, each their place. I prefer the latter, and place the work of Martha Deed squarely within the expansive. Come look, ooh, ahhh, enjoy. Regards, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 07:56:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For years I've been saying to myself that I should learn Spanish. It's been so easy not to learn it. It's easy being lazy when you already speak and write the language of the ruling class and race. And where I come from no one learns Spanish, or even considers it. Only one member of my extended family has ever graduated from college (and it's not me). The recent hostile arguments from our esteemed Washington leadership for making English the official language, meaning a requirement for the privilege of citizenship, has me as angry as I am embarrassed. Angry because the racism and classism handed down from the pearly top. Embarrassed because I do not know Spanish, but want to better support those who LIVE in the language. So I've decided to be as vocal as I can be about learning Spanish this year. Mainly because I want to say as often as I can, "I am NOT learning a foreign language, but another American language!" Because this IS TRUE! Learning Spanish and being confrontational about NEEDING to learn it has never seemed more important. Solidarity with the Latino community in their (our) present and future crises needs to be met at the very least with making an effort to communicate. That and knowing more about a culture and a community than what and how to order off the menu. Also, this crisis of language in Washington might just be the very thing needed to make more Americans aware of Chavez and the amazing revolution in Venezuela. Such awareness can only make Americans angry about what we LACK! May the backfiring begin, and soon! It will also be good to read poetry in Spanish, to finally see if I agree with all those translators, CAConrad CAConrad is the author of Deviant Propulsion (Soft Skull Press, 2006) for poem samples from the book go to: _http://CAConrad.blogspot.com_ (http://caconrad.blogspot.com/) "Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained...." --William Blake for PhillySound: NEW POETRY: _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) for CAConrad's tarot services:_ http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com_ (http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 07:23:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: composition by numbers--today's are 6-6-6 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:46:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Announcing Richard Jeffrey Newman's "The Silence Of Men" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Poems by Richard Jeffrey Newman, with a Foreword by Yusef Komunyakaa Publisher: CavanKerry Press, www.cavankerrypress.com, May 2006, $16.00, paperback Book Orders: University Press of New England, http://www.upne.com/0-9723045-8-4.html To schedule readings and other appearances: richardjeffreynewman@verizon.net For more information about Richard Jeffrey Newman: www.richardjnewman.com -/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ THE SILENCE OF MEN A man I've never dreamed before walks into my apartment and sits in the green chair where I do my writing. He carries in his left hand a large erect penis which he places silently on the floor. The phallus begins to waltz to music I cannot hear, its scrotum a skirt; its testicles, legs cut off at the knees. I want to know why this disfigured manhood has been brought to me. I look up, but my guest is gone. His organ, deflating in short spasms like an old man coughing, spreads itself in a pool of shallow blood. The silence between us is the silence of men. -/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ In The Silence Of Men, Richard Jeffrey Newman confronts and breaks the two great silences that permeate men's lives: silence about sex and silence about violence. Graphic and intimate, celebratory and heartbreakingly painful, these are the poems of a survivor for whom writing has been a primary means of survival. Robin Behn has written about these poems, "[Richard Jeffrey Newman's] is an unremitting empathy, as uncommon as it is necessary." In the Foreword, Yusef Komunyakaa has this to say: " Richard Newman's.. poetry dares us, as men, as human beings, to share what we have experienced and imagined-the good and the bad. He seems to be saying that dialogue is what makes each of us whole. Not in a gush, but through a measured language that embraces art." -/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Richard Jeffrey Newman is a poet, essayist and translator. In addition to The Silence Of Men, he has published two books of translations from classical Persian literature, Selections from Saadi's Gulistan and Selections from Saadi's Bustan (both from Global Scholarly Publications, www.gsp-online.org, 2004 and 2006 respectively). He has been publishing his work since 1988, when the essay "His Sexuality; Her Reproductive Rights" appeared in Changing Men magazine. Since then, his work has appeared in a wide range of journals, including Prairie Schooner, ACM, and the Birmingham Poetry Review. As well, his work was recently anthologized in Access Literature (Thomson Wadsworth, 2005). Currently, in addition to working on his second book of poems, he is translating selections from the Shahnameh, the Persian national epic, and collaborating with Professor John Moyne on a new Rumi anthology. Richard Jeffrey Newman sits on the advisory board of The Translation Project, www.thetranslationproject.com, and he listed as a speaker with the New York Council for the Humanities, http://www.nyhumanities.org/speakers/lectures/lecture.php?lecture_id=1186. He is an Associate Professor in the English Department at Nassau Community College in Garden City, New York. The Silence Of Men is the first book of Newman's own poems to be published. Please consider making it a part of your life. To read more sample poems, please visit his website, www.richardjnewman.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:48:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 5 Jun 2006 at 22:59, alexander saliby wrote: > Marcus, > Who gives a damn if you know what you are saying! I love the > poetry. ... is that "Post modernism?" ...< It appears that a good deal of what postmodernism consists of is not giving a damn if you know what you're saying. The postmodernist's motto: "Only disconnect". I guess that explains the lot: if you don't give a damn what you're saying you can say anything; and best of all, if you're saying it to other postmodernists, they don't give a damn whether you're saying anything, or whether you give a damn whether you're saying anything. What a racket. On 5 Jun 2006 at 17:08, Warren Lloyd wrote: > ... I discussed a paradigmatic shift having to do with 'means' over > 'ability', ... the means I refered to were the means in his > statement ie. "the relationship between man and his own > Mind".... to discuss the 'real' tools of the statement not vapor or > ability,< If I parse the sense of what you're saying here correctly, and I hope you'll correct me if I'm wrong, you see ability as "vapor" and means as a "relationship", and claim there's a paradigmatic shift from "vapor" to "relationship", or from "ability" to "means". In the context of the conversation you were distinguishing "the ability of human beings to destroy the planet" from "the means of human beings to destroy the planet", so what you seem to be saying now is that you see a paradigmatic shift from "the vapor of human beings to destroy the planet" to "the relationship of human beings to destroy the planet". Is that right? > and I was certainly not trying to suggest some over sweeping > generalization about the inversion of means and ends or ability or > anything else. I was trying to, politely evoke conversation about > 'real' things. And are 'real' things vapor, or relationship, or something else? Marcus > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marcus Bales > To: > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 3:57 AM > Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > ... The change, I believe, is in > > the relationship between man and his own mind. There is a > greater > > understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things > to > > be looked at more critically and more sharply.< > > But if I understand what postmodernists want to do clearly, as I > may > not, the goal of postmodernism is precisely the opposite: to AVOID > looking at anything critically and sharply. Instead, postmodernism > seems to be about regressing to a primitive, archaic, primordial, > and > NON-rational state. Even in discussions of the issue haven't we > seen > at least one of the defenders of post-modernism on this list > resort > to school-yard name-calling instead of engaging in any way > critically > or sharply with the issues at hand. > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > ... Humans have new > > tools to question things with: computers, psychology, the theory > of > > relativity, new diseases, new cures, and social and govermental > ideas.< > > But this is just what the postmodernists deny! They want to revert > to > primitivist, non-rational, primordial barbarism, not new cures and > new ideas. > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware > that > > there is always another evolution on the horizon.< > > Postmodernism's denial of rationality appreciates antiquity? > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 17:12, Warren Lloyd wrote: > > ... It seems to me one of the most relevant paradigmatic > shifts > > taking place within the idea of post-modernism has less to do > with > > ability and more to do with means. ... > > The barriers between the object,subject > > and their instrumentation are becoming quickly blurred. ... > This, > > of course, [leads] to wonderful, life saving and progressive > ends > > as well as to horrific and deadly ends. > > Well, then, it's not a paradigmatic shift between ability and > means, > is it? Not that there seems to be much to choose, in fact, between > "ability" and "means", after all. What is ability but means? What > is > means but ability? > > It's just this kind of confusion that seems so typical of the > discourse of the advocates and defenders of postmodernism. After > looking closely at what is said, it turns out that nothing much is > actually said -- and what is said seems recursive or to be just > plain > nonsense. The problem Mr Lloyd seems to be trying to identify is > the > same old problem of the relationship between means and ENDS, not > between "ability and ... means". This is not, of course, a new > problem -- and confusing and conflating ends with means doesn't > make > it new. Perhaps, though, confusing and conflating ends and means > is > what is most postmodern about this sort of analysis? Do you do it > on > purpose? Is that what postmodernism is, after all: making the same > old mistakes over again? Watch out, ladies: in the bad old days > they > stoned and burned uppity women. What rough beast, its hour come > round > again, slouches towards us? > > Marcus > > Advice to Young Ladies > AD Hope > > A.U.C. 334: about this date, > For a sexual misdemeanor which she denied, > The vestal virgin Postumia was tried; > Livy records it among affairs of state. > > They let her off: it seems she was perfectly pure; > The charge arose because some thought her talk > Too witty for a young girl, her eyes, her walk > Too lively, her clothes too smart to be demure. > > The Pontifex Maximus, summing up the case, > Warned her in future to abstain from jokes, > To wear less modish and more pious frocks. > She left the court reprieved, but in disgrace. > > What then? With her the annalist is less > Concerned than what the men achieved that year: > Plots, quarrels, crimes, with oratory to spare -- > I see Postumia with her dowdy dress, > > Stiff mouth and listless step; I see her strive > To give dull answers. She had to knuckle down. > A vestal virgin who scandalized that town > Had fair trial, then they buried her alive. > > Alive, bricked up in suffocating dark; > A ration of bread, a pitcher if she was dry, > Preserved the body they did not wish to die > Until her mind was quenched to the last spark. > > How many the black maw has swallowed in its time! > Spirited girls who would not know their place, > Talented girls who found that the disgrace > Of being a woman made genius a crime. > > How many others, who would not kiss the rod, > Domestic bullying broke or public shame? > Pagan or Christian, it was much the same: > Husbands, St. Paul declared, rank next to God. > > Livy and Paul, it may be, never knew > That Rome was doomed; each spoke of her with pride. > Tacitus, writing after both had died, > Showed that whole fabric rotten, through and through. > > Historians spend their lives and lavish ink > Explaining how great commonwealths collapse > From great defects of policy -- perhaps > The cause is sometimes simpler than they think. > > It may not seem so grave an act to break > Postumia's spirit as Galileo's, to gag > Hypatia as crush Socrates, or drag > Joan as Giordano Bruno to the stake. > > Can we be sure? Have more states perished, then, > For having shackled the enquiring mind, > Than those who, in their folly not less blind, > Trusted the servile womb to breed free men? > > --AD Hope ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:18:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Gabe gudding email? In-Reply-To: <44854146.12962.5194A4C@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone have gabe's email R -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Marcus Bales Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:48 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Postmodernism? On 5 Jun 2006 at 22:59, alexander saliby wrote: > Marcus, > Who gives a damn if you know what you are saying! I love the poetry. > ... is that "Post modernism?" ...< It appears that a good deal of what postmodernism consists of is not giving a damn if you know what you're saying. The postmodernist's motto: "Only disconnect". I guess that explains the lot: if you don't give a damn what you're saying you can say anything; and best of all, if you're saying it to other postmodernists, they don't give a damn whether you're saying anything, or whether you give a damn whether you're saying anything. What a racket. On 5 Jun 2006 at 17:08, Warren Lloyd wrote: > ... I discussed a paradigmatic shift having to do with 'means' over > 'ability', ... the means I refered to were the means in his statement > ie. "the relationship between man and his own Mind".... to discuss the > 'real' tools of the statement not vapor or ability,< If I parse the sense of what you're saying here correctly, and I hope you'll correct me if I'm wrong, you see ability as "vapor" and means as a "relationship", and claim there's a paradigmatic shift from "vapor" to "relationship", or from "ability" to "means". In the context of the conversation you were distinguishing "the ability of human beings to destroy the planet" from "the means of human beings to destroy the planet", so what you seem to be saying now is that you see a paradigmatic shift from "the vapor of human beings to destroy the planet" to "the relationship of human beings to destroy the planet". Is that right? > and I was certainly not trying to suggest some over sweeping > generalization about the inversion of means and ends or ability or > anything else. I was trying to, politely evoke conversation about > 'real' things. And are 'real' things vapor, or relationship, or something else? Marcus > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marcus Bales > To: > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 3:57 AM > Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > ... The change, I believe, is in > > the relationship between man and his own mind. There is a greater > > understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things to > > be looked at more critically and more sharply.< > > But if I understand what postmodernists want to do clearly, as I may > not, the goal of postmodernism is precisely the opposite: to AVOID > looking at anything critically and sharply. Instead, postmodernism > seems to be about regressing to a primitive, archaic, primordial, > and > NON-rational state. Even in discussions of the issue haven't we seen > at least one of the defenders of post-modernism on this list resort > to school-yard name-calling instead of engaging in any way > critically > or sharply with the issues at hand. > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > ... Humans have new > > tools to question things with: computers, psychology, the theory > of > > relativity, new diseases, new cures, and social and govermental > ideas.< > > But this is just what the postmodernists deny! They want to revert > to > primitivist, non-rational, primordial barbarism, not new cures and > new ideas. > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware > that > > there is always another evolution on the horizon.< > > Postmodernism's denial of rationality appreciates antiquity? > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 17:12, Warren Lloyd wrote: > > ... It seems to me one of the most relevant paradigmatic shifts > > taking place within the idea of post-modernism has less to do with > > ability and more to do with means. ... > > The barriers between the object,subject > > and their instrumentation are becoming quickly blurred. ... > This, > > of course, [leads] to wonderful, life saving and progressive ends > > as well as to horrific and deadly ends. > > Well, then, it's not a paradigmatic shift between ability and means, > is it? Not that there seems to be much to choose, in fact, between > "ability" and "means", after all. What is ability but means? What is > means but ability? > > It's just this kind of confusion that seems so typical of the > discourse of the advocates and defenders of postmodernism. After > looking closely at what is said, it turns out that nothing much is > actually said -- and what is said seems recursive or to be just > plain > nonsense. The problem Mr Lloyd seems to be trying to identify is the > same old problem of the relationship between means and ENDS, not > between "ability and ... means". This is not, of course, a new > problem -- and confusing and conflating ends with means doesn't make > it new. Perhaps, though, confusing and conflating ends and means is > what is most postmodern about this sort of analysis? Do you do it on > purpose? Is that what postmodernism is, after all: making the same > old mistakes over again? Watch out, ladies: in the bad old days they > stoned and burned uppity women. What rough beast, its hour come > round > again, slouches towards us? > > Marcus > > Advice to Young Ladies > AD Hope > > A.U.C. 334: about this date, > For a sexual misdemeanor which she denied, > The vestal virgin Postumia was tried; > Livy records it among affairs of state. > > They let her off: it seems she was perfectly pure; > The charge arose because some thought her talk > Too witty for a young girl, her eyes, her walk > Too lively, her clothes too smart to be demure. > > The Pontifex Maximus, summing up the case, > Warned her in future to abstain from jokes, > To wear less modish and more pious frocks. > She left the court reprieved, but in disgrace. > > What then? With her the annalist is less > Concerned than what the men achieved that year: > Plots, quarrels, crimes, with oratory to spare -- > I see Postumia with her dowdy dress, > > Stiff mouth and listless step; I see her strive > To give dull answers. She had to knuckle down. > A vestal virgin who scandalized that town > Had fair trial, then they buried her alive. > > Alive, bricked up in suffocating dark; > A ration of bread, a pitcher if she was dry, > Preserved the body they did not wish to die > Until her mind was quenched to the last spark. > > How many the black maw has swallowed in its time! > Spirited girls who would not know their place, > Talented girls who found that the disgrace > Of being a woman made genius a crime. > > How many others, who would not kiss the rod, > Domestic bullying broke or public shame? > Pagan or Christian, it was much the same: > Husbands, St. Paul declared, rank next to God. > > Livy and Paul, it may be, never knew > That Rome was doomed; each spoke of her with pride. > Tacitus, writing after both had died, > Showed that whole fabric rotten, through and through. > > Historians spend their lives and lavish ink > Explaining how great commonwealths collapse > From great defects of policy -- perhaps > The cause is sometimes simpler than they think. > > It may not seem so grave an act to break > Postumia's spirit as Galileo's, to gag > Hypatia as crush Socrates, or drag > Joan as Giordano Bruno to the stake. > > Can we be sure? Have more states perished, then, > For having shackled the enquiring mind, > Than those who, in their folly not less blind, > Trusted the servile womb to breed free men? > > --AD Hope ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 06:23:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Landscape to be acted on: Xanax Pop, by Lewis LaCook Comments: To: Leiws LaCook , netbehaviour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm trying lately to include myself as no less than the trees and stars in my landscape-to-be-acted-on... http://xanaxpop.lewislacook.org/ *************************************************************************** ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... || http://www.corporatepa.com || Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting Corporate Performance Artists --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 09:37:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <3c5.3b429e7.31b6c754@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Jun 6, 2006, at 7:56 AM, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > So I've decided to be as vocal as I can be about learning Spanish > this year. Mainly because I want to say as often as I can, > "I am NOT learning a foreign language, but another American > language!" Because this IS TRUE! Hear! Hear! The US has always been multilingual. "Never eat anything larger than your head." --B. Kliban Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 14:48:07 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Gabe gudding email? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haas Bianchi" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 2:18 PM Subject: Gabe gudding email? > > Anyone have gabe's email > > R ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 06:56:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Emily Dickinson in Bagdad Comments: cc: "Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable In case you have been missing "Baghdad Burning" - which has been sporadically appearing at best - this one goes right to the depths, complete with an Emily Dickinson rejoinder: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 =A0 Bad Day... It=B9s been a horrible day. We woke up to unbearable heat. Our area averages about 4 hours electricity daily and the rest is generator electricity, whic= h means we can use our ceiling fans, but there=B9s no way we can use air conditioners. We woke up to an ominous silence- an indicator that the generator isn=B9t working. E. went next door to check and got a confirmation. It might not work all day. The neighbor responsible for it was going to bring by the =8Cgenerator doctor=B9 as soon as he was free. The electricity came at 6 pm for only twenty minutes- as if to taunt us. Th= e moment the lights flickered on, we were gathered in the kitchen and we coul= d hear the neighborhood children began to hoot and holler with joy. Before that, we heard the news about the dozens abducted from the Salhiya area in Baghdad. Salhiya is a busy area where many travel agencies have offices. It has been particularly busy since the war because people who wan= t to leave to Jordan and Syria all make their reservations from one office or another in that area. According to people working and living in the area, around 15 police cars pulled up to the area and uniformed men began pulling civilians off the streets and from cars, throwing bags over their heads and herding them into the cars. Anyone who tried to object was either beaten or pulled into a car= . The total number of people taken away is estimated to be around 50. This has been happening all over Iraq- mysterious men from the Ministry of Interior rounding up civilians and taking them away. It just hasn=B9t happene= d with this many people at once. The disturbing thing is that the Iraqi Ministry of Interior has denied that it had anything to do with this latest mass detention (which is the new trend with them- why get tangled up with human rights organizations about mass detentions, torture and assassinations- just deny it happened!). That isn=B9t a good sign- it means these people will probably be discovered dead in a matter of days. We pray they=B9ll be returned alive=8A Another piece of particularly bad news came later during the day. Several students riding a bus to school were assassinated in Dora area. No one know= s why- it isn=B9t clear. Were they Sunni? Were they Shia? Most likely they were a mix=8A Heading off for their end-of-year examination- having stayed up the night before to study in the heat. When they left their houses, they were probably only worried about whether they=B9d pass or fail- their parents sending them off with words of encouragement and prayer. Now they=B9ll never come home. There=B9s an ethnic cleansing in progress and it=B9s impossible to deny. People are being killed according to their ID card. Extremists on both sides are making life impossible. Some of them work for =8CZarqawi=B9, and the others wor= k for the Iraqi Ministry of Interior. We hear about Shia being killed in the =8CSunni triangle=B9 and corpses of Sunnis named =8COmar=B9 (a Sunni name) arriving by the dozen at the Baghdad morgue. I never thought I=B9d actually miss the car bombs. At least a car bomb is indiscriminate. It doesn=B9t seek you out because you=B9re Sunni or Shia. We still don=B9t have ministers in the key ministries- defense and interior. Iraq is falling apart and Maliki and his team are still bickering over who should get more power- who is more qualified to oppress Iraqis with the hel= p of foreign occupiers? On top of all of this, rumor has it that the Iraqi parliament have a =8Cvacation=B9 coming up during July and August. They=B9re so exhausted with the arguing, and struggling for power, they need to take a couple of months off to rest. They=B9ll leave their well-guarded homes behind for a couple of months, and spend some time abroad with their families (who can=B9t live in Iraq anymore- they=B9re too precious for that). Where does one go to avoid the death and destruction? Are the Americans happy with this progress? Does Bush still insist we=B9re progressing? Emily Dickinson wrote, =B3hope is a thing with feathers=B2. If what she wrote i= s true, then hope has flown far- very far- from Iraq=8A ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:34:51 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Ann Margaret Bogle BLOG update 6/6/06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New entries at Ann Margaret Bogle BLOG mostly since March 13, 2006: 2 short stories, "Almanac" and "Hogging the Lady," previously published in Poetic Inhalation, February 2005. 2 previously unpublished short stories, "Cigs," and "Rule Out Euthymia." 2 Swedish folk poems, "Ode to Coffee" (Hyllningsdikt Till Kaffet) and "Varan Prost." Many visitors to my blog -- several per week -- are seeking the words to "Rida Rida Ranka," also cited there. One visitor posted the Norwegian translation. "Bill Evans Lake, 1999," a poem by Victoria Tester, courtesy of Veery Books, NY, from Miracles of Sainted Earth (University of New Mexico Press, 2002). The story of my relation to Ann-Margret in "Wild Bore Harley." http://annbogle@blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:53:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: OlsonNow Updates Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On the documents page: Two essays by Paul Nelson/The Sound of the Field and Dualism and Olsonian/Whiteheadian Process http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/olson/blog/ *** http://olsonnow.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:27:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Officious Language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain So -- in the same season that the Senate declares English our "national" language, the final two contestants in the "National Spelling Bee" were confronted with German words! Can you say "Ursprache?" Can Bush? I say lock up the Bees; throw the book at 'em. What kind of anti-American spelling terrorists are they? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:53:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: and what, friends, is a sea? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit And what, friends, is called a ship? If there is, friends, any kind of large vessel, subject to be steered for the purposes of shipping a range of items, this vessel being composed of various materials-—whether metal or wood, concrete or fiberglass-—such that it floats, carrying objects one wishes to keep dry-—this, friends, is called a ship. And what, friends, is called a sea? If there is, friends, any expanse of seawater, positioned between continents or amid various nations, such that it would be coated by pointy waves, supportive of various kinds of wind-—whether gusts or light breeze, whether slight breeze or gentle breeze, whether moderate breeze or fresh breeze, strong breeze or gale, whether moderate gale or fresh gale, strong gale or whole gale, or whether wind storm or hooricane—-this wind being usually clear or grey, resembling an invisible rack from which various birds may be suspended—-whether frigatebirds or kelp petrels, storm petrels or awks, whether pelicans or the arctic tern-—any such expanse of seawater providing a relatively frictionless surface for the purposes of seatravel, a surface one may study but not understand, at which one may stare but not comprehend, and whose bottom is constituted by shells, muds, corals, sands, trenches or volcanic elements—-being thus a more or less gargantuan body of seawater, such that it is inclined to induce humility in those adjacent to it or poised upon it, which humility may itself come in the guise of awe, vomiting, or tourism—-this, friends, is a called a sea. And what, friends, is called a cruise? If there is an activity, friends, constituted by the unilateral movement of several hundred people en masse across the surface of seawater, aboard a ship engaged in the approximation of a hotel, in which one may find the selling of jewelry, clothing, alcohol, and a diversity of commemorative objects, and upon which the days are divided by a person called a “cruise director,” whose name may be Dave, and whose voice piercingly comes unbidden through the various ceilings of the ship, the days thus being divided by the cruise director into group activities whose purpose is to render controlled approximations of joy, which are called “fun”-—this, friends, is called a cruise. And what, friends, is called a friend? If there are, friends, any kind of companions, with whom one shares this joy or that joy, and who at times can aid one in the often difficult task of retaining the capacity to be surprised by this life, and with whom one feels fortunate to have spent time, even a little time, whether eating dinner or writing poetry, whether talking of Tristan Tzara or staring at the wake of a ship-—even a little time talking of frigatebirds or chatting with the children of these companions or engaging in small talks by a street bench on a tiny island-—any such person toward whom one is inclined to feel gratitude for having shared, even briefly, the endless humility of this life-—this, friends, is called a friend. [http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:15:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spanish, English, Portuguese and French are NOT American languages. Quechua, Aymara, Cherokee, Nahuatl, and Guarani are American languages. RB -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:38 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language On Jun 6, 2006, at 7:56 AM, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > So I've decided to be as vocal as I can be about learning Spanish this > year. Mainly because I want to say as often as I can, "I am NOT > learning a foreign language, but another American language!" Because > this IS TRUE! Hear! Hear! The US has always been multilingual. "Never eat anything larger than your head." --B. Kliban Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:55:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Haas Bianchi wrote: > Spanish, English, Portuguese and French are NOT American languages. I guess it depends on your definition of America. Paul Nelson > Quechua, > Aymara, Cherokee, Nahuatl, and Guarani are American languages. > > RB > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:38 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language > > On Jun 6, 2006, at 7:56 AM, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > > >> So I've decided to be as vocal as I can be about learning Spanish this >> year. Mainly because I want to say as often as I can, "I am NOT >> learning a foreign language, but another American language!" Because >> this IS TRUE! >> > > Hear! Hear! The US has always been multilingual. > > "Never eat anything larger than your head." > --B. Kliban > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@gmail.com > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.AuburnCommunityRadio.com www.SPLAB.org 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 Slaughter, WA 98001 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 13:58:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <4485C1A2.3020008@speakeasy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline and timeframe On 6/6/06, Paul Nelson wrote: > > Haas Bianchi wrote: > > Spanish, English, Portuguese and French are NOT American languages. > I guess it depends on your definition of America. > > Paul Nelson > > Quechua, > > Aymara, Cherokee, Nahuatl, and Guarani are American languages. > > > > RB > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On > > Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:38 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language > > > > On Jun 6, 2006, at 7:56 AM, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > > > > > >> So I've decided to be as vocal as I can be about learning Spanish this > >> year. Mainly because I want to say as often as I can, "I am NOT > >> learning a foreign language, but another American language!" Because > >> this IS TRUE! > >> > > > > Hear! Hear! The US has always been multilingual. > > > > "Never eat anything larger than your head." > > --B. Kliban > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard@gmail.com > > halvard@earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Paul E. Nelson > www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org > www.AuburnCommunityRadio.com > www.SPLAB.org > 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 > Slaughter, WA 98001 > 253.735.6328 > toll-free 888.735.6328 > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 13:59:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <4485C1A2.3020008@speakeasy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How about creole languages=3F Black English Vernacular=3F Papiamentu=3F= = Saramacca=3F Portu=F1ol=3F Haitian Kreyol=3F African languages in Cub= a=3F = Cajun=3F Joal=3F Dreadtalk=3F ----- Original Message ----- From=3A Paul Nelson =3Cpen=40SPEAKEASY=2ENET=3E Date=3A Tuesday=2C June 6=2C 2006 1=3A55 pm Subject=3A Re=3A Spanish is not a foreign language =3E Haas Bianchi wrote=3A =3E =3E Spanish=2C English=2C Portuguese and French are NOT American lan= guages=2E =3E I guess it depends on your definition of America=2E =3E = =3E Paul Nelson =3E =3E Quechua=2C =3E =3E Aymara=2C Cherokee=2C Nahuatl=2C and Guarani are American langua= ges=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E RB = =3E =3E =3E =3E -----Original Message----- =3E =3E From=3A UB Poetics discussion group = =3E =5Bmailto=3APOETICS=40LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU=5D On =3E =3E Behalf Of Halvard Johnson =3E =3E Sent=3A Tuesday=2C June 06=2C 2006 8=3A38 AM =3E =3E To=3A POETICS=40LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU =3E =3E Subject=3A Re=3A Spanish is not a foreign language =3E =3E =3E =3E On Jun 6=2C 2006=2C at 7=3A56 AM=2C Craig Allen Conrad wrote=3A =3E =3E =3E =3E = =3E =3E=3E So I=27ve decided to be as vocal as I can be about learning = =3E Spanish this = =3E =3E=3E year=2E Mainly because I want to say as often as I can=2C =22= I am = =3E NOT = =3E =3E=3E learning a foreign language=2C but another American language!= =22 = =3E Because = =3E =3E=3E this IS TRUE! =3E =3E=3E = =3E =3E =3E =3E Hear! Hear! The US has always been multilingual=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E =22Never eat anything larger than your head=2E=22 =3E =3E --B=2E Kliban =3E =3E =3E =3E Halvard Johnson =3E =3E =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3E =3E halvard=40gmail=2Ecom =3E =3E halvard=40earthlink=2Enet =3E =3E http=3A//home=2Eearthlink=2Enet/=7Ehalvard =3E =3E http=3A//entropyandme=2Eblogspot=2Ecom =3E =3E http=3A//imageswithoutwords=2Eblogspot=2Ecom =3E =3E http=3A//www=2Ehamiltonstone=2Eorg =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E = =3E = =3E = =3E -- = =3E Paul E=2E Nelson =3E www=2EGlobalVoicesRadio=2Eorg =3E www=2EAuburnCommunityRadio=2Ecom =3E www=2ESPLAB=2Eorg =3E 110 2nd Street S=2EW=2E =23100 =3E Slaughter=2C WA 98001 =3E 253=2E735=2E6328 =3E toll-free 888=2E735=2E6328 =3E ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 14:12:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: all language is a foreign language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i never thought that a language was a geographic thing, it may start someplace but like (and with people) they move (or die), they change (or die), they become something else (or die), if your government wants to name just one as the the top dog, that's fine, people will still talk whatever langague they need to to get the job of life done Christopher Leland Winks wrote: How about creole languages? Black English Vernacular? Papiamentu? Saramacca? Portuñol? Haitian Kreyol? African languages in Cuba? Cajun? Joal? Dreadtalk? ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Nelson Date: Tuesday, June 6, 2006 1:55 pm Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language > Haas Bianchi wrote: > > Spanish, English, Portuguese and French are NOT American languages. > I guess it depends on your definition of America. > > Paul Nelson > > Quechua, > > Aymara, Cherokee, Nahuatl, and Guarani are American languages. > > > > RB > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:38 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language > > > > On Jun 6, 2006, at 7:56 AM, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > > > > > >> So I've decided to be as vocal as I can be about learning > Spanish this > >> year. Mainly because I want to say as often as I can, "I am > NOT > >> learning a foreign language, but another American language!" > Because > >> this IS TRUE! > >> > > > > Hear! Hear! The US has always been multilingual. > > > > "Never eat anything larger than your head." > > --B. Kliban > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard@gmail.com > > halvard@earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Paul E. Nelson > www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org > www.AuburnCommunityRadio.com > www.SPLAB.org > 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 > Slaughter, WA 98001 > 253.735.6328 > toll-free 888.735.6328 > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 14:17:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain yeah -- it does sound funny to declare that Nahuatal is an American language, even though the people who evolved that language didn't call this place America, and then say that Spanish is not an American Language -- so yes, it does depend on what you define as American - I live in a place that is called America by most people who live in other parts of North and South America -- and I count among my neighbors people who speak Spanish, Armenian and Quechua -- Not one of them speaks that language in exactly the way it is spoken in its place of origin -- So they're American on my tongue -- On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:55:46 +0000, Paul Nelson wrote: > Haas Bianchi wrote: > > Spanish, English, Portuguese and French are NOT American languages. > I guess it depends on your definition of America. > > Paul Nelson > > Quechua, > > Aymara, Cherokee, Nahuatl, and Guarani are American languages. > > > > RB > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:38 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language > > > > On Jun 6, 2006, at 7:56 AM, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > > > > > >> So I've decided to be as vocal as I can be about learning Spanish this > >> year. Mainly because I want to say as often as I can, "I am NOT > >> learning a foreign language, but another American language!" Because > >> this IS TRUE! > >> > > > > Hear! Hear! The US has always been multilingual. > > > > "Never eat anything larger than your head." > > --B. Kliban > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard@gmail.com > > halvard@earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Paul E. Nelson > www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org > www.AuburnCommunityRadio.com > www.SPLAB.org > 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 > Slaughter, WA 98001 > 253.735.6328 > toll-free 888.735.6328 > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:29:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <44854146.12962.5194A4C@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 6-Jun-06, at 5:48 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: >> > > It appears that a good deal of what postmodernism consists of is not > giving a damn if you know what you're saying. The postmodernist's > motto: "Only disconnect". I guess that explains the lot: if you don't > give a damn what you're saying you can say anything; and best of all, > if you're saying it to other postmodernists, they don't give a damn > whether you're saying anything, or whether you give a damn whether > you're saying anything. What a racket. > What an easy thing to say! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 14:32:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Announcing New Publication: Encyclopedia Vol. 1 A-E! Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Dear Good People, After two years of intense work, and several weeks of waiting for the=20 shipment to arrive, I am thrilled to announce the publication of Encyclopedia Vol. 1 A-E! ISBN: 0-9773443-0-4, $25.00, cloth, pp. 336, Encyclomedia, 2006 The question, What occurs under the sign of fiction? guides the content=20= of ENCYCLOPEDIA VOL. 1 A-E, the first of five books in the=20 unprecedented series, The Encyclopedia Project.=A0 Beautifully designed=20= and illustrated, with a full-color artist=92s portfolio, it combines the=20= literary journal and the reference book into one stunning hardcover,=20 complete with a foil stamped spine. Vol. 1 features 150+ entries on narrative created by 100+=20 contributors, including Fred Wah's ACCENT, Anna Joy Springer=92s rebus=20= for ACKER, KATHY, Laylah Ali=92s eponymous entry of paintings, Deborah=20= Richards=92 ASSIMILATION, Lisa Robertson's ASTRAGAL, K. Silem Mohammad=92s= =20 AUTHENTICITY, Miriam Klein-Stahl=92s woodcut for BALDWIN, JAMES, Carole=20= Maso's BECKETT, SAMUEL, Katie Hays=92 BLOOMSBURY, Padcha Tuntha Obas'=20 CHA, THERESA HAK KYUNG, Eileen Myles=92 BUTCH, Brian Evenson=92s=20 CAPITALISM, Tanya Hollis=92 mixed-media CATALOGUE, Alice Notley=92s = CRIME=20 FICTION, Kofi Natambu's COLLECTIVE, Prageeta Sharma's CURSE, Sally=20 Oswald's DIALOGUE, Carolee Schneemann=92s DEADLINE, John R. Keene=92s=20 DENOUEMENT, Jibade-Khalil Huffman's photographs for DOMESTICITY, Laird=20= Hunt=92s DOPPLEGANGER, Suzanne Stein's ELASTICITY, Rikki Ducornet=92s=20 painting ENCYCLOPEDIA, Samuel R. Delany=92s EPIC, Kirthi Nath's EPIGRAM,=20= Mikhail Epstein=92s ESSAY, kari edwards' ESSENTIALISM, and Erika=20 Howsare's EXPLORATION.=A0 Through a revamp of the traditional anthology, and its use of a playful=20= cross-referencing system, ENCYCLOPEDIA VOL. 1 A-E connects seemingly=20 disparate artists and ideas, and encourages unexpected conversations,=20 both within and beyond its pages. Get it! Read it! Teach with it! It makes a wonderful gift, and looks swell on a coffee table! Available from Small Press Distribution, www.spdbooks.org. More info (including single and subscription ordering) at=20 www.encyclopediaproject.org Love, The Encyclopedists Tisa Bryant, Miranda F. Mellis & Kate Schatz ********************************** To create form out of the nature of our tasks with the methods of our=20 time=97this is our task. =20= Mies van der Rohe= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:45:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <200606061817.OAA01886@webmail15.cac.psu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 6-Jun-06, at 11:17 AM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > I live in a place that is called > America by most people who live in other parts of North and South > America Where did you get that idea? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 14:45:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Postmodernism? Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Obviously there has to be a point to postmodernism. Sometimes I think it's = its own point. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Bowering" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:29:08 -0700 >=20 >=20 > On 6-Jun-06, at 5:48 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: >=20 > >> > > > > It appears that a good deal of what postmodernism consists of is not > > giving a damn if you know what you're saying. The postmodernist's > > motto: "Only disconnect". I guess that explains the lot: if you don't > > give a damn what you're saying you can say anything; and best of all, > > if you're saying it to other postmodernists, they don't give a damn > > whether you're saying anything, or whether you give a damn whether > > you're saying anything. What a racket. > > >=20 > What an easy thing to say! > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 16:21:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <20060606194514.CE4F213EF1@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 6 Jun 2006 at 14:45, furniture_ press wrote: > Obviously there has to be a point to postmodernism.< I don't think it's obvious at all. I think it is an embarrassing mistake; that the people who initially started writing about it didn't think it through, and by that time they were too well-known for writing about "postmodernism" to back down, and they were stuck with this pointless pseudo-movement about which so many of its defenders and advocates are either inarticulate, incoherent, or both. > Sometimes I think it's its own point.< And look at that: right on cue. What do you mean "Sometimes"? What would "being its own point" mean in terms of a description such as "Postmodernism" is supposed to be, compared to "Modern" and "Romantic" and "Classical" and the like? Marcus > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "George Bowering" > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > > Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:29:08 -0700 > > > > > > On 6-Jun-06, at 5:48 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > It appears that a good deal of what postmodernism consists of is > not > > > giving a damn if you know what you're saying. The > postmodernist's > > > motto: "Only disconnect". I guess that explains the lot: if you > don't > > > give a damn what you're saying you can say anything; and best of > all, > > > if you're saying it to other postmodernists, they don't give a > damn > > > whether you're saying anything, or whether you give a damn > whether > > > you're saying anything. What a racket. > > > > > > > What an easy thing to say! > > > > > > > Christophe Casamassima > Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology > University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. > > > -- > ___________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ > > > Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 15:49:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Postmodernism? Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 By sometimes ... means at other times it is not. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Bales" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 16:21:19 -0400 >=20 >=20 > On 6 Jun 2006 at 14:45, furniture_ press wrote: > > Obviously there has to be a point to postmodernism.< >=20 > I don't think it's obvious at all. I think it is an embarrassing > mistake; that the people who initially started writing about it > didn't think it through, and by that time they were too well-known > for writing about "postmodernism" to back down, and they were stuck > with this pointless pseudo-movement about which so many of its > defenders and advocates are either inarticulate, incoherent, or both. >=20 > > Sometimes I think it's its own point.< >=20 > And look at that: right on cue. What do you mean "Sometimes"? What > would "being its own point" mean in terms of a description such as > "Postmodernism" is supposed to be, compared to "Modern" and > "Romantic" and "Classical" and the like? >=20 > Marcus >=20 >=20 > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "George Bowering" > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > > > Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:29:08 -0700 > > > > > On 6-Jun-06, at 5:48 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It appears that a good deal of what postmodernism consists of is > > not > > > > giving a damn if you know what you're saying. The > > postmodernist's > > > > motto: "Only disconnect". I guess that explains the lot: if you > > don't > > > > give a damn what you're saying you can say anything; and best of > > all, > > > > if you're saying it to other postmodernists, they don't give a > > damn > > > > whether you're saying anything, or whether you give a damn > > whether > > > > you're saying anything. What a racket. > > > > > > > > What an easy thing to say! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christophe Casamassima > > Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology > > University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. > > > > > > -- ___________________________________________ > > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ > > > > > > Powered By Outblaze > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 13:50:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <4485AB7F.24296.156132A@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcus Bales wrote: > On 6 Jun 2006 at 14:45, furniture_ press wrote: > >> >> > Obviously there has to be a point to postmodernism. mistake; that the people who initially started writing about it > didn't think it through, and by that time they were too well-known > for writing about "postmodernism" to back down, and they were stuck > with this pointless pseudo-movement about which so many of its > defenders and advocates are either inarticulate, incoherent, or both. > > >> Sometimes I think it's its own point.< >> > > And look at that: right on cue. What do you mean "Sometimes"? What > would "being its own point" mean in terms of a description such as > "Postmodernism" is supposed to be, compared to "Modern" and > "Romantic" and "Classical" and the like? > > Marcus > It seems the company Marcus works for has a bit of indeterminacy going for it: *The Company* Designer Glass is a team of people who've found that their skills mesh together well to produce a whole greater than the sum of its parts. */Begun in 1949, 1985, or 1987, /*depending on whether you count the other companies we've bought over the years, Designer Glass has been doing good work for long enough to know that this is what we like to do, and what we'll be doing for years to come.... pn > > >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "George Bowering" >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: Postmodernism? >>> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:29:08 -0700 >>> >>> >>> On 6-Jun-06, at 5:48 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: >>> >>> >>>> It appears that a good deal of what postmodernism consists of is >>>> >> not >> >>>> giving a damn if you know what you're saying. The >>>> >> postmodernist's >> >>>> motto: "Only disconnect". I guess that explains the lot: if you >>>> >> don't >> >>>> give a damn what you're saying you can say anything; and best of >>>> >> all, >> >>>> if you're saying it to other postmodernists, they don't give a >>>> >> damn >> >>>> whether you're saying anything, or whether you give a damn >>>> >> whether >> >>>> you're saying anything. What a racket. >>>> >>>> >>> What an easy thing to say! >>> >> >> Christophe Casamassima >> Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology >> University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. >> >> >> -- >> ___________________________________________ >> Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net >> Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ >> >> >> Powered By Outblaze >> > > > > -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.AuburnCommunityRadio.com www.SPLAB.org 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 Slaughter, WA 98001 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 17:11:58 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: fwd - poems of the week website MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT PRESS RELEASE Relaunch of the « Poems of the Week » website by the Parliamentary Poet Laureate The Parliamentary Poet Laureate, Mrs. Pauline Michel, is proud to announce that the « Poems of the Week » website is now again online. Mrs. Michel has relaunched this website dedicated to Canadian poets and their poems on June 5th. This project has been set up by the previous Poet laureate, Mr. George Bowering, in 2002. From now on and until the end of Mrs. Michels mandate on November 16th, readers will have access to poems written by 48 living Canadian poets invited to share their poetry. These poets come from all around the country, they are from several ethnic origins, they are women as well as men. Their work is already well known or will soon be. French writers and English writers are equally represented. Two new poems will be available each week : one in French, the other in English. Previous poems will remain online in the archive section so readers can read them until the end of the project. Visit this out of the ordinary website, which makes the promotion of Canadian poets and contributes in its way to the Canadian literature radiance. http://www.parl.gc.ca/Information/about/people/poet/index.asp?lang=e¶m=4&id=1 Source: P. Michel poeteparlement@yahoo.ca -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:35:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ruling class and race they were once too the spanish i mean english spanish is the first language of the americas including usofa that's the language you were taught first ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 17:51:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <20060606194514.CE4F213EF1@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A postmodernist is anyone who someone in authority thinks is having more fun than they are (paraphrasing Tuli Kupferberg's- or was it Ed Sanders'?- definition of a hippy). On 6/6/06 3:45 PM, "furniture_ press" wrote: > Obviously there has to be a point to postmodernism. Sometimes I think it's its > own point. > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "George Bowering" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Postmodernism? >> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:29:08 -0700 >> >> >> On 6-Jun-06, at 5:48 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: >> >>>> >>> >>> It appears that a good deal of what postmodernism consists of is not >>> giving a damn if you know what you're saying. The postmodernist's >>> motto: "Only disconnect". I guess that explains the lot: if you don't >>> give a damn what you're saying you can say anything; and best of all, >>> if you're saying it to other postmodernists, they don't give a damn >>> whether you're saying anything, or whether you give a damn whether >>> you're saying anything. What a racket. >>> >> >> What an easy thing to say! > >> > > > > Christophe Casamassima > Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology > University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 03:57:14 +0530 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: NSA Will "Neither Confirm Nor Deny" Surveillance of LGBT Community "2006 is the new 1984," says SLDN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline [News From Underground] Gay Americans under NSA surveillance National Security Agency Will "Neither Confirm Nor Deny" Surveillance of LGBT Community "2006 is the new 1984," says SLDN Washington, DC - In a June 5 letter to counsel for Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN), the National Security Agency (NSA) says it will "neither confirm nor deny the existence or non-existence" of information that may have been obtained through agency surveillance of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community. SLDN sought information, through a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, after media reports indicated the agency may have been monitoring groups and individuals opposed to the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" ban on lesbian, gay and bisexual personnel. The June 5 letter was sent in response to SLDN's appeal of NSA's refusal to release any information related to that surveillance. The appeal was filed on SLDN's behalf by the law firm of Proskauer Rose LLP. "2006 is the new 1984," said SLDN executive director C. Dixon Osburn. "The federal government's Orwellian surveillance programs of ordinary, law-abiding citizens violates our right to privacy under current law. The government's refusal to disclose its surveillance programs erodes the public trust." The NSA letter, from William B. Black, Jr., notes that "any substantive response to [the original] request would tend to confirm or deny specific activities." SLDN has up to five years to appeal the NSA's response. In January, the Department of Defense acknowledged that it had "inappropriately" conducted surveillance on student protestors at several universities. The Pentagon has also indicated it has additional surveillance materials, in the form of government TALON reports, which will be released at a later date. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has said the surveillance program is "no big deal." A copy of the NSA letter, along with other materials related to SLDN's FOIA request and lawsuit, is available online at www.sldn.org. # # # Servicemembers Legal Defense Network is a national, non-profit legal services, watchdog and policy organization dedicated to ending discrimination against and harassment of military personnel affected by 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' and related forms of intolerance. For more information, visit www.sldn.org. -- transSubmutation http://transdada3.blogspot.com/ obedience Poetry Factory School. 2005. 86 pages, perfect bound, 6.5x9. ISBN: 1-60001-044-X $12 / $10 direct order Description: obedience, the fourth book by kari edwards, offers a rhythmic disruption of the relative real, a progressive troubling of the phenomenal world, from gross material to the infinitesimal. The book's intention is a transformative mantric dismantling of being. http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/index.html http://www.spdbooks.org/SearchResults.asp?AuthorTitle=edwards%2C+kari ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:56:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Morey Subject: Re: Postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The point being made that post-modernism is irrational and may be saying absolutly nothing goes along with my point very well. If there is a greater understanding of the workings of the mind and nature then there is a greater ability to disrupt it, destroy it, and point out its absurdities. A non-grammatical, non-comprehendable flow of thought could show that the writer has a greater understanding of how his own thoughts are produced. Either that or, the writer is completely full of shit and running a "racket" as was previously stated. With this sort of thing there is a fine line between genius and asshole. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 20:01:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: query: gramsci, poetics, becoming, progress In-Reply-To: <6968f59e0606061527w4e184d93pb1835146b06b8c09@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm having trouble finding additional thinking/writing on Gramsci in terms of his discussion of "progress" and "becoming" in The Prison Notebooks (from "The Study of Philosophy" in the selections edited and translated by Quintin Hoare and Geoffrey Nowell Smith). I did have the entire (2) translated volumes but returned both. Perhaps this is treated at greater length there? I am also interested in thinkers that relate Gramsci and poetics in terms of these two notions of progress and becoming. I searched also online for discussion groups on Gramsci but found none. If you have any thoughts on the above, or can point me in a direction on any of the above, I'd be grateful. Please backchannel. Kindest regards, Deborah Poe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:17:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Warren Lloyd Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <4485AB7F.24296.156132A@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ahhh Mr. bales my friend, It seems you have really been at it today! Where is this motto of disconnectedness you speak of? What post modernist has forged this motto? What post modernist lives by a motto? Post modernist dis-connectivity, I bet, is concerned with separating from the ' disinterested purposiveness' in the shadows, behind the triangulated columns of binary logic. Are you back there robed with your rod ? I'm not sure from where this idea of irrationality has come from either. Again what post modernist has made the declaration of irrationality and if he did; how did you understand it? What is your rationality? Do you suppose the rationality of say, the Yaruba tribe in Africa whose social hierarchies depend upon patterns and depths of facial scaration, is the same as your seemingly Euro centric rationality? Perhaps, what you coin as irrationality is just another form of rationality with different 'ends' deviously carved under the gold leafed 'means' of the Nike of Samothrace's wings, cracking slowly with each languorous flap.Those nasty deceptive postmodernists! You make claims of postmodern inarticulation and incoherence, it may, and of course, correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure you will with emotional and irrational rigor, be unclear and incoherent because you are unwilling to wrap your head around different modes of rationality, different forms of thought? Now, Mr. bales, I'm just having a bit of fun here, as you have been doing yourself, with me. But on a more 'realistic' note, I really haven't heard you mention any specific postmodernist or postmodern 'thing' that has offended you so much.For example, much post modern architecture is "connected" with its' environment and its' use. Generalities have been par for the semantics, thus far. If you remember, my original statement was an attempt to open up a discussion about vision and instrumentation in an effort to suggest that perhaps the increasing union between instrumentation ( say surveillance) and sight ( behavior) may be in some way part of what it means to be a postmodernist( perhaps by default as Charles Jenks suggests, we may not have a say) living in a ubiquitously (Westernized) world. I am only a mere student of life as I will always remain, and I am interested in learning as much as possible about other points of view and other modes of thought and I think I am capable of being articulate or coherent enough ( or at least I can try) to have a civil non-aggressive conversation. Perhaps this might entail too much patience on your part, and that I can understand, and if this is so I am sorry I have wasted so much of your time on your list with your topic, Your friend Warren Marcus Bales wrote: On 6 Jun 2006 at 14:45, furniture_ press wrote: > Obviously there has to be a point to postmodernism.< I don't think it's obvious at all. I think it is an embarrassing mistake; that the people who initially started writing about it didn't think it through, and by that time they were too well-known for writing about "postmodernism" to back down, and they were stuck with this pointless pseudo-movement about which so many of its defenders and advocates are either inarticulate, incoherent, or both. > Sometimes I think it's its own point.< And look at that: right on cue. What do you mean "Sometimes"? What would "being its own point" mean in terms of a description such as "Postmodernism" is supposed to be, compared to "Modern" and "Romantic" and "Classical" and the like? Marcus > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "George Bowering" > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > > Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:29:08 -0700 > > > > > > On 6-Jun-06, at 5:48 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > It appears that a good deal of what postmodernism consists of is > not > > > giving a damn if you know what you're saying. The > postmodernist's > > > motto: "Only disconnect". I guess that explains the lot: if you > don't > > > give a damn what you're saying you can say anything; and best of > all, > > > if you're saying it to other postmodernists, they don't give a > damn > > > whether you're saying anything, or whether you give a damn > whether > > > you're saying anything. What a racket. > > > > > > > What an easy thing to say! > > > > > > > Christophe Casamassima > Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology > University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. > > > -- > ___________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ > > > Powered By Outblaze __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 00:19:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: The War of Authorship MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The War of Authorship http://tinyurl.com/lyt29 -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:56:52 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve potter Subject: Re: postmodernism: back to the text In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed from the intro to David Harvey's The Condition of Postmodernity: "No one exactly agrees as to what is meant by the term, except, perhaps, that 'postmodernism' represents some kind of reaction to, or departure from, 'modernism'. Since the meaning of modernism is also very confused, the reaction or departure known as 'postmodernism' is doubly so. The literary critic Terry Eagleton (1987) tries to define the term as follows: There is, perhaps, a degree of consensus that the typical postmodernist artefact is playful, self-ironizing and even schizoid; and that it reacts to the austere autonomy of high modernism by impudently embracing the language of commerce and of commodity. Its stance towards cultural tradition is one of irreverent pastiche, and its contrived depthlessness undermines all metaphysical solemnities, sometimes by a brutal aesthetics of squalor and shock. In more positive vein, the editors of the architectural journal PRECIS 6 (1987, 7-24) see postmodernism as a legitimate reaction to the 'monotomy' of universal modernism's vision of the world. 'Generally perceived as positivistic, technocentric, and rationalistic, universal modernism has been identified with the belief in linear progress, absolute truths, the rational planning of ideal social orders, and the standardization of knowledge and production.' Postmodernism, by way of contrast, privileges 'heterogeneity and difference as liberative forces in the redefinition of cultural discourse.' Fragmentation, indeterminacy, and intense distrust of all universal or 'totalizing' discourses (to use a favored phrase) are the hallmarks of postmodernist thought. The rediscovery of pragmatism in philosophy (e. g. Rorty, 1979), the shift of ideas about the philosophy of science wrought by Kuhn (1962) and Feyerabend (1975), Foucault's emphasis upon discontinuity and difference in history and his privileging of 'polymorphous correlations in place of simple or complex causality,' new developments in mathematics emphasizing indeterminacy (catastrophe and chaos theory, fractal geometry), the reemergence of concern in ethics, politics, and anthropology for the validity and dignity of 'the other,' all indicate a widespread and profound shift in 'the structure of feeling.' What all these examples have in common is a rejection of 'meta-narratives' (large-scale theoretical interpretations purportedly of universal application), which leads Eagleton to complete his description of postmodernism thus: Post-modernism signals the death of such 'metanarratives' whose secretly terroristic function was to ground and legitimate the illusion of a 'universal' human history. We are now in the process of wakening from the nightmare of modernity, with its manipulative reason and fetish of the totality, into the laid-back pluralism of the post-modern, that heterogeneous range of lifestyles and language games which has renounced the nostalgic urge to totalize and legitimate itself.... Science and philosophy must jettison their grandiose metaphysical claims and view themselves more modestly as just another set of narratives." Grind yer teeth on that awhile... and let the sophistry begin (continue)! steve >Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 22:59:57 -0700 >From: alexander saliby >Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > >Marcus, >Who gives a damn if you know what you are saying! I love the = >poetry...is that "Post modernism?" =20 > >Alex=20 >P.S. my wife and her friends love the A.D. Hope works. =20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Marcus Bales=20 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 3:57 AM > Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > ... The change, I believe, is in > > the relationship between man and his own mind. There is a greater > > understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things to > > be looked at more critically and more sharply.< > > But if I understand what postmodernists want to do clearly, as I may=20 > not, the goal of postmodernism is precisely the opposite: to AVOID=20 > looking at anything critically and sharply. Instead, postmodernism=20 > seems to be about regressing to a primitive, archaic, primordial, and=20 > NON-rational state. Even in discussions of the issue haven't we seen=20 > at least one of the defenders of post-modernism on this list resort=20 > to school-yard name-calling instead of engaging in any way critically=20 > or sharply with the issues at hand. > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > ... Humans have new > > tools to question things with: computers, psychology, the theory of > > relativity, new diseases, new cures, and social and govermental = >ideas.< > > But this is just what the postmodernists deny! They want to revert to=20 > primitivist, non-rational, primordial barbarism, not new cures and=20 > new ideas.=20 > =20 > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware that > > there is always another evolution on the horizon.< > > Postmodernism's denial of rationality appreciates antiquity? > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 17:12, Warren Lloyd wrote: > > ... It seems to me one of the most relevant paradigmatic shifts > > taking place within the idea of post-modernism has less to do with > > ability and more to do with means. ... > > The barriers between the object,subject > > and their instrumentation are becoming quickly blurred. ... This,=20 > > of course, [leads] to wonderful, life saving and progressive ends > > as well as to horrific and deadly ends. =20 > > Well, then, it's not a paradigmatic shift between ability and means,=20 > is it? Not that there seems to be much to choose, in fact, between=20 > "ability" and "means", after all. What is ability but means? What is=20 > means but ability?=20 > > It's just this kind of confusion that seems so typical of the=20 > discourse of the advocates and defenders of postmodernism. After=20 > looking closely at what is said, it turns out that nothing much is=20 > actually said -- and what is said seems recursive or to be just plain=20 > nonsense. The problem Mr Lloyd seems to be trying to identify is the=20 > same old problem of the relationship between means and ENDS, not=20 > between "ability and ... means". This is not, of course, a new=20 > problem -- and confusing and conflating ends with means doesn't make=20 > it new. Perhaps, though, confusing and conflating ends and means is=20 > what is most postmodern about this sort of analysis? Do you do it on=20 > purpose? Is that what postmodernism is, after all: making the same=20 > old mistakes over again? Watch out, ladies: in the bad old days they=20 > stoned and burned uppity women. What rough beast, its hour come round=20 > again, slouches towards us? > > Marcus > > Advice to Young Ladies > AD Hope > > A.U.C. 334: about this date,=20 > For a sexual misdemeanor which she denied,=20 > The vestal virgin Postumia was tried;=20 > Livy records it among affairs of state.=20 > > They let her off: it seems she was perfectly pure;=20 > The charge arose because some thought her talk=20 > Too witty for a young girl, her eyes, her walk=20 > Too lively, her clothes too smart to be demure.=20 > > The Pontifex Maximus, summing up the case,=20 > Warned her in future to abstain from jokes,=20 > To wear less modish and more pious frocks.=20 > She left the court reprieved, but in disgrace.=20 > > What then? With her the annalist is less=20 > Concerned than what the men achieved that year:=20 > Plots, quarrels, crimes, with oratory to spare --=20 > I see Postumia with her dowdy dress,=20 > > Stiff mouth and listless step; I see her strive=20 > To give dull answers. She had to knuckle down.=20 > A vestal virgin who scandalized that town=20 > Had fair trial, then they buried her alive.=20 > > Alive, bricked up in suffocating dark;=20 > A ration of bread, a pitcher if she was dry,=20 > Preserved the body they did not wish to die=20 > Until her mind was quenched to the last spark.=20 > > How many the black maw has swallowed in its time!=20 > Spirited girls who would not know their place,=20 > Talented girls who found that the disgrace=20 > Of being a woman made genius a crime.=20 > > How many others, who would not kiss the rod,=20 > Domestic bullying broke or public shame?=20 > Pagan or Christian, it was much the same:=20 > Husbands, St. Paul declared, rank next to God.=20 > > Livy and Paul, it may be, never knew=20 > That Rome was doomed; each spoke of her with pride.=20 > Tacitus, writing after both had died,=20 > Showed that whole fabric rotten, through and through.=20 > > Historians spend their lives and lavish ink=20 > Explaining how great commonwealths collapse=20 > From great defects of policy -- perhaps=20 > The cause is sometimes simpler than they think.=20 > > It may not seem so grave an act to break=20 > Postumia's spirit as Galileo's, to gag=20 > Hypatia as crush Socrates, or drag=20 > Joan as Giordano Bruno to the stake.=20 > > Can we be sure? Have more states perished, then,=20 > For having shackled the enquiring mind,=20 > Than those who, in their folly not less blind,=20 > Trusted the servile womb to breed free men?=20 > > --AD Hope > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 19:29:33 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Swedenborg's Airplane Gallery Updated at Ahadada Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Zowie! Go to Gallery at www.ahadadabooks.com for your latest Swedenborg's Airplane vispo/mailart art!--including new work by Bob Grumman (Mathematiku), Carlos Luis and others. Ooooooh! Come see! Jess P.S. and yes, the project is on-going. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 06:56:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Heretical Texts, Vol.2.2: Steve Carll Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed New from Heretical Texts: TRACHEAL CENTRIFUGE by Steve Carll Factory School. 2006. 88 pages, perfect bound, 6.5x9. $12 / $10 direct order This collection of chapbooks (Drugs, Hamburger, City That Sublets My Sleep, Tracheal Centrifuge) aims to inspire you to rise up against our corporate overlords, shout down the noise machine, dismantle a fast-food restaurant barehanded, turn left at Zen, cook veggie meals, start a band: in short, to open up a can of Whup-Ass on the way things have been around here for way too long. Why stop at 'LMAO'? About Heretical Texts: This series aims to investigate and challenge the assumption that poetry, as art and communication activity, is political. Central to the Heretical Texts mission is a focused imagining of 'political poetry' as a form of public intervention, invention, and invocation that calls on language to call out a public, a people. Volume One: 1. Dan Featherston, United States 2. Laura Elrick, Fantasies in Permeable Structures 3. Linh Dinh, Borderless Bodies 4. Sarah Menefee, Human Star 5. kari edwards, obedience Volume Two: 1. Diane Ward, Flim-Yoked Scrim 2. Steve Carll, Tracheal Centrifuge 3. Kristin Prevallet, Shadow Evidence Intelligence 4. Brian Kim Stefans, What is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers 5. Carol Mirakove, Mediated Volume 3 (winter 2006) will feature work by Ammiel Alcalay, Catherine Daly, Nick Piombino, Heriberto Yepez, and Meg Hammill. Order direct from Factory School: http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/order.html Also available through Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org/ For more about the Heretical Texts series: http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/index.html For more about this and other Factory School projects: http://www.factoryschool.org Contact: info "at" factoryschool.org [or reply backchannel to this email] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 05:34:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Warren Lloyd Subject: Re: postmodernism: back to the text In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you sir for that text. The insights and observations in it seem very rational. steve potter wrote: from the intro to David Harvey's The Condition of Postmodernity: "No one exactly agrees as to what is meant by the term, except, perhaps, that 'postmodernism' represents some kind of reaction to, or departure from, 'modernism'. Since the meaning of modernism is also very confused, the reaction or departure known as 'postmodernism' is doubly so. The literary critic Terry Eagleton (1987) tries to define the term as follows: There is, perhaps, a degree of consensus that the typical postmodernist artefact is playful, self-ironizing and even schizoid; and that it reacts to the austere autonomy of high modernism by impudently embracing the language of commerce and of commodity. Its stance towards cultural tradition is one of irreverent pastiche, and its contrived depthlessness undermines all metaphysical solemnities, sometimes by a brutal aesthetics of squalor and shock. In more positive vein, the editors of the architectural journal PRECIS 6 (1987, 7-24) see postmodernism as a legitimate reaction to the 'monotomy' of universal modernism's vision of the world. 'Generally perceived as positivistic, technocentric, and rationalistic, universal modernism has been identified with the belief in linear progress, absolute truths, the rational planning of ideal social orders, and the standardization of knowledge and production.' Postmodernism, by way of contrast, privileges 'heterogeneity and difference as liberative forces in the redefinition of cultural discourse.' Fragmentation, indeterminacy, and intense distrust of all universal or 'totalizing' discourses (to use a favored phrase) are the hallmarks of postmodernist thought. The rediscovery of pragmatism in philosophy (e. g. Rorty, 1979), the shift of ideas about the philosophy of science wrought by Kuhn (1962) and Feyerabend (1975), Foucault's emphasis upon discontinuity and difference in history and his privileging of 'polymorphous correlations in place of simple or complex causality,' new developments in mathematics emphasizing indeterminacy (catastrophe and chaos theory, fractal geometry), the reemergence of concern in ethics, politics, and anthropology for the validity and dignity of 'the other,' all indicate a widespread and profound shift in 'the structure of feeling.' What all these examples have in common is a rejection of 'meta-narratives' (large-scale theoretical interpretations purportedly of universal application), which leads Eagleton to complete his description of postmodernism thus: Post-modernism signals the death of such 'metanarratives' whose secretly terroristic function was to ground and legitimate the illusion of a 'universal' human history. We are now in the process of wakening from the nightmare of modernity, with its manipulative reason and fetish of the totality, into the laid-back pluralism of the post-modern, that heterogeneous range of lifestyles and language games which has renounced the nostalgic urge to totalize and legitimate itself.... Science and philosophy must jettison their grandiose metaphysical claims and view themselves more modestly as just another set of narratives." Grind yer teeth on that awhile... and let the sophistry begin (continue)! steve >Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 22:59:57 -0700 >From: alexander saliby >Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > >Marcus, >Who gives a damn if you know what you are saying! I love the = >poetry...is that "Post modernism?" =20 > >Alex=20 >P.S. my wife and her friends love the A.D. Hope works. =20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Marcus Bales=20 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 3:57 AM > Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > ... The change, I believe, is in > > the relationship between man and his own mind. There is a greater > > understanding of psychology and physics that allows all things to > > be looked at more critically and more sharply.< > > But if I understand what postmodernists want to do clearly, as I may=20 > not, the goal of postmodernism is precisely the opposite: to AVOID=20 > looking at anything critically and sharply. Instead, postmodernism=20 > seems to be about regressing to a primitive, archaic, primordial, and=20 > NON-rational state. Even in discussions of the issue haven't we seen=20 > at least one of the defenders of post-modernism on this list resort=20 > to school-yard name-calling instead of engaging in any way critically=20 > or sharply with the issues at hand. > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > ... Humans have new > > tools to question things with: computers, psychology, the theory of > > relativity, new diseases, new cures, and social and govermental = >ideas.< > > But this is just what the postmodernists deny! They want to revert to=20 > primitivist, non-rational, primordial barbarism, not new cures and=20 > new ideas.=20 > =20 > On 4 Jun 2006 at 18:12, Adam Morey wrote: > > It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware that > > there is always another evolution on the horizon.< > > Postmodernism's denial of rationality appreciates antiquity? > > On 4 Jun 2006 at 17:12, Warren Lloyd wrote: > > ... It seems to me one of the most relevant paradigmatic shifts > > taking place within the idea of post-modernism has less to do with > > ability and more to do with means. ... > > The barriers between the object,subject > > and their instrumentation are becoming quickly blurred. ... This,=20 > > of course, [leads] to wonderful, life saving and progressive ends > > as well as to horrific and deadly ends. =20 > > Well, then, it's not a paradigmatic shift between ability and means,=20 > is it? Not that there seems to be much to choose, in fact, between=20 > "ability" and "means", after all. What is ability but means? What is=20 > means but ability?=20 > > It's just this kind of confusion that seems so typical of the=20 > discourse of the advocates and defenders of postmodernism. After=20 > looking closely at what is said, it turns out that nothing much is=20 > actually said -- and what is said seems recursive or to be just plain=20 > nonsense. The problem Mr Lloyd seems to be trying to identify is the=20 > same old problem of the relationship between means and ENDS, not=20 > between "ability and ... means". This is not, of course, a new=20 > problem -- and confusing and conflating ends with means doesn't make=20 > it new. Perhaps, though, confusing and conflating ends and means is=20 > what is most postmodern about this sort of analysis? Do you do it on=20 > purpose? Is that what postmodernism is, after all: making the same=20 > old mistakes over again? Watch out, ladies: in the bad old days they=20 > stoned and burned uppity women. What rough beast, its hour come round=20 > again, slouches towards us? > > Marcus > > Advice to Young Ladies > AD Hope > > A.U.C. 334: about this date,=20 > For a sexual misdemeanor which she denied,=20 > The vestal virgin Postumia was tried;=20 > Livy records it among affairs of state.=20 > > They let her off: it seems she was perfectly pure;=20 > The charge arose because some thought her talk=20 > Too witty for a young girl, her eyes, her walk=20 > Too lively, her clothes too smart to be demure.=20 > > The Pontifex Maximus, summing up the case,=20 > Warned her in future to abstain from jokes,=20 > To wear less modish and more pious frocks.=20 > She left the court reprieved, but in disgrace.=20 > > What then? With her the annalist is less=20 > Concerned than what the men achieved that year:=20 > Plots, quarrels, crimes, with oratory to spare --=20 > I see Postumia with her dowdy dress,=20 > > Stiff mouth and listless step; I see her strive=20 > To give dull answers. She had to knuckle down.=20 > A vestal virgin who scandalized that town=20 > Had fair trial, then they buried her alive.=20 > > Alive, bricked up in suffocating dark;=20 > A ration of bread, a pitcher if she was dry,=20 > Preserved the body they did not wish to die=20 > Until her mind was quenched to the last spark.=20 > > How many the black maw has swallowed in its time!=20 > Spirited girls who would not know their place,=20 > Talented girls who found that the disgrace=20 > Of being a woman made genius a crime.=20 > > How many others, who would not kiss the rod,=20 > Domestic bullying broke or public shame?=20 > Pagan or Christian, it was much the same:=20 > Husbands, St. Paul declared, rank next to God.=20 > > Livy and Paul, it may be, never knew=20 > That Rome was doomed; each spoke of her with pride.=20 > Tacitus, writing after both had died,=20 > Showed that whole fabric rotten, through and through.=20 > > Historians spend their lives and lavish ink=20 > Explaining how great commonwealths collapse=20 > From great defects of policy -- perhaps=20 > The cause is sometimes simpler than they think.=20 > > It may not seem so grave an act to break=20 > Postumia's spirit as Galileo's, to gag=20 > Hypatia as crush Socrates, or drag=20 > Joan as Giordano Bruno to the stake.=20 > > Can we be sure? Have more states perished, then,=20 > For having shackled the enquiring mind,=20 > Than those who, in their folly not less blind,=20 > Trusted the servile womb to breed free men?=20 > > --AD Hope > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:21:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <20060607021708.26398.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 6 Jun 2006 at 19:17, Warren Lloyd wrote: > Ahhh Mr. bales my friend, > ... Where is this motto of > disconnectedness you speak of? What post modernist has forged this > motto? What post modernist lives by a motto?< I confess, I made it up in response to the demonstrations I've seen by postmodernists, or their advocates or defenders, in order to point up the absurdity of the postmodernist position. On 6 Jun 2006 at 19:17, Warren Lloyd wrote: > Post modernist > dis-connectivity, I bet, is concerned with separating from the > 'disinterested purposiveness' in the shadows, behind the triangulated > columns of binary logic.< No doubt it is. I'm questioning whether that's a good thing. On 6 Jun 2006 at 19:17, Warren Lloyd wrote: > I'm not sure from where this idea of irrationality has come from > either.< You claim right out loud that "is concerned with separating from the 'disinterested purposiveness' in the shadows, behind the triangulated columns of binary logic" and you can't see why that looks like the idea of irrationality? > Again what post modernist has made the declaration of > irrationality and if he did; how did you understand it?< As far as I can see, you yourself have: > Post modernist > dis-connectivity, I bet, is concerned with separating from the > 'disinterested purposiveness' in the shadows, behind the > triangulated columns of binary logic.< > What is your > rationality? Do you suppose the rationality of say, the Yaruba tribe > in Africa whose social hierarchies depend upon patterns and depths > of facial scaration, is the same as your seemingly Euro centric > rationality? < Do you suppose the greenness of the infield fly rule, which women holding babies disregard irrespective of whether there are men on base, is any more feline than a locomotive? Why don't you ask a question that makes sense? What can the patterns of scarification in the Yoruba have to do with the patterns of rationality? If you get appendicitis, are you going to try to decide what to do based on the social hierarchies of the Yoruba, or go to the hospital? > Perhaps, what you coin as irrationality is just > another form of rationality with different 'ends' deviously carved > under the gold leafed 'means' of the Nike of Samothrace's wings, > cracking slowly with each languorous flap.< If it's rationality, then let's hear about the rules and means and ends of that rationality. Lay it out for us all: explain this "other form of rationality". > ... You make claims of postmodern inarticulation and > incoherence, it may, and of course, correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm > sure you will with emotional and irrational rigor, be unclear and > incoherent because you are unwilling to wrap your head around > different modes of rationality, different forms of thought?< Or it could be that the incoherence and inarticulation are merely coverups for there being no there there. If there is a "different mode of rationality", then explain it. As for "different forms of thought", I do not deny that in the least -- but thought and rationality are not the same thing. > ... But on a more 'realistic' note, I really haven't > heard you mention any specific postmodernist or postmodern 'thing' > that has offended you so much.< Can we agree that Frank Gehry's curvilinear architecture is "postmodern"? Can we agree that they don't build those buildings with "postmodern methods" but, instead, rely on some really serious number crunching in the same old rational way? Can we agree that those buildings do not get built unless the same old rational way of thought can show that they're not going to fall down? So what's "postmodern" about them at all? Postmodernism is either an entirely superficial thing that stands on the shoulders of rationalism, or its as "other" as you claim, and why would anyone bother to crunch the numbers for Gehry? Why not just bend the steel randomly and hope? > For example, much post modern > architecture is "connected" with its' environment and its' use.< This is superficial, not an example of "other" thinking, or of "other than rational" thinking. > ... my original statement was an attempt to open up a > discussion about vision and instrumentation in an effort to suggest > that perhaps the increasing union between instrumentation ( say > surveillance) and sight ( behavior) may be in some way part of what > it means to be a postmodernist...< Have you ever really looked closely at a medieval building? Have you noticed that the joins are amazing even after a thousand years; that the carvings on the underside of the chairs are as good as those on the backs? And so on? Why do you suppose that is? It's because the dominant religious sensibility of the time was that God Is Watching Everywhere All The Time -- craftsmen would not then, as so many do now, fail to sand and finish the join just because it was hidden from sight or hard to see. Perhaps the surveillance you speak of, and the human reactions to it are not postmodern in the least, but rather medieval. You may object to the "watching everywhere all the time" notion on other grounds, but I scarcely think that you can claim it is "postmodern" merely on the grounds that an awareness of the watching exists. That's not enough. Your claim of postmodernism has to rest of more than that, or, if that's all you've got, you have to see that it's at best medieval, and perhaps lots older than that. In short, once again, to re-emphasize the point I made talking to Alison Croggon, the human condition hasn't changed, and calling it "postmodern" insteadof "medieval" doesn't get you any further along. Calling a tail a leg doesn't give a dog five legs. On 7 Jun 2006 at 9:56, steve potter wrote: > from the intro to David Harvey's The Condition of Postmodernity: > "No one exactly agrees as to what is meant by the term, except, > perhaps, that 'postmodernism' represents some kind of reaction to, or > departure from, 'modernism'. Since the meaning of modernism is also very confused, > the reaction or departure known as 'postmodernism' is doubly so.< Here, at least, we may agree. On 7 Jun 2006 at 9:56, steve potter wrote: > The literary critic Terry Eagleton (1987) tries to define the term > as follows: > There is, perhaps, a degree of consensus that the typical > postmodernist artefact is playful, > self-ironizing and even schizoid; and that it reacts to the > austere autonomy of high > modernism by impudently embracing the language of commerce > and of commodity. Its > stance towards cultural tradition is one of irreverent > pastiche, and its contrived > depthlessness undermines all metaphysical solemnities, > sometimes by a brutal aesthetics > of squalor and shock. That's like a doctor confronting battlefield casualties by simply cutting the throats of all the wounded. Is it the artist's call to do just what everyone else is doing? If on the battlefield where killing is occurring, kill more? If in a milieu of squalor and shock, be more squalid and more shocking? How do you reconcile such an attitude with your credit rating, your house, your job, your spouse, your kids, your neighbors? Why aren't you out there in the squalor being shocking? What price respectability with a postmodern view? Let's have no more brave talk from a safe distance behind the lines. Go bankrupt. Kill a cop. Blow up a building. Pursue another kind of rationality. Be postmodern, don't just talk about it. Either do it or shut up about it. But writing poems can't be a postmodern response to postmodernity because it's just too freaking rational in the old way. > ... 'Generally > perceived as positivistic, technocentric, and rationalistic, > universal modernism has been > identified with the belief in linear progress, absolute truths, the > rational planning of ideal social orders, and the standardization > of knowledge and production.' Postmodernism, by way of contrast, > privileges 'heterogeneity and difference as liberative forces in > the redefinition of cultural discourse.'< Well then by all means, let us have some heterogeneity in, say, math. Why aren't you an architect or engineer? Why don't you go out and build a postmodern building that looks like nothing else? Oh, and don't forget to invent a whole new mathematics to make sure it won't fall down, while you're at it! No fair using the old math, or hiring a "real" engineer, either, or it won't be "postmodern" -- it'll just be ordinarily modern because it'll depend on those ordinarily modern notions such as rationality and all. Let's have Postmodern for real, shall we? > Fragmentation, indeterminacy, and intense distrust of > all universal or 'totalizing' discourses (to use a favored phrase) are > the hallmarks of postmodernist thought.< What crap. Those are the hallmarks of rational thought, not postmodern irrationalist thought. You think it was a postmodern who thought up "Question Authority"? Was Socrates, then, postmodern? > The rediscovery of pragmatism in > philosophy (e. g. Rorty, 1979), the shift of ideas about the > philosophy of > science wrought by Kuhn (1962) and Feyerabend (1975), Foucault's > emphasis > upon discontinuity and difference in history and his privileging of > 'polymorphous correlations in place of simple or complex causality,' > new > developments in mathematics emphasizing indeterminacy (catastrophe > and chaos > theory, fractal geometry), the reemergence of concern in ethics, > politics, > and anthropology for the validity and dignity of 'the other,' all > indicate a > widespread and profound shift in 'the structure of feeling.'< What crap. These ideas have been around for aeons, and they come and go in emphasis depending on conditions and circumstances. There's nothing postmodern about them. Zeno of Elea was criticizing the absolutism of the Pythagorean number line hundreds of years before the Common Era, and in terms that have taken 2500 years to really understand. You can see the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Zeno of Elea's paradoxes of motion. What "postmodernism" seems to consist of, mostly, is ignorance about what other people have done before. > Post-modernism signals the death of such 'metanarratives' > whose secretly terroristic function was to ground and legitimate > the illusion of a 'universal' human history.< Oh my -- "secretly terroristic"!? Well, come to think of it, in my experience the people who are most adamantinely postmodern are just those people who ARE terrified of math and science, who don't get it and can't do it. But they manage to graduate from school with good grades in spite of a profound ignorance, and that leads them to think that if they can get away with faking a good education, they can get away with faking good art. Why not eliminate all the hard stuff in art, and call whatever the result is, well, art. If it's difficult, eliminate it; if it's easy, call it postmodern. > We are now in the process of wakening from the nightmare of > modernity, with its manipulative reason and fetish of the totality, > into the laid-back pluralism of the post-modern, that heterogeneous > range of lifestyles and language games which has renounced the > nostalgic urge to totalize and legitimate itself....< Well good luck with that. More hospital beds for the rest of us, I say, because I hope you have the courage of your convictions, and when you wake from the nightmare of modernity to a case of appendicitis that you have the decency to die your postmodern death without trying to sponge off the rest of us. > Science and philosophy must jettison their grandiose metaphysical > claims and view themselves more modestly as just another set of > narratives."<' And while you're laying there dying of a condition the modern world could easily correct, you tell yourself narratives of the Yoruba scarification rituals, all right? I'm sure you'll find that very helpful! I could grow to like this whole postmodern thing -- maybe we can sell it to the rest of the world by exporting postmodernists to China and India as the Germans exported Lenin to Russia: like a destructive virus. We'll keep on with the nightmare of modernism here in the West, and you postmodernists all go and preach your gospel of alternative narratives to the rest of the world. Convince them that their own native narratives are superior to the nightmare of modernism, and that those pipelines and ports and airbases are none of their concern. Okay? Marcus > > Marcus Bales wrote: > On 6 Jun 2006 at 14:45, furniture_ press wrote: > > Obviously there has to be a point to postmodernism.< > > I don't think it's obvious at all. I think it is an embarrassing > mistake; that the people who initially started writing about it > didn't think it through, and by that time they were too well-known > for writing about "postmodernism" to back down, and they were stuck > with this pointless pseudo-movement about which so many of its > defenders and advocates are either inarticulate, incoherent, or > both. > > > Sometimes I think it's its own point.< > > And look at that: right on cue. What do you mean "Sometimes"? What > would "being its own point" mean in terms of a description such as > "Postmodernism" is supposed to be, compared to "Modern" and > "Romantic" and "Classical" and the like? > > Marcus > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "George Bowering" > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: Re: Postmodernism? > > > Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:29:08 -0700 > > > > > > > > > On 6-Jun-06, at 5:48 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It appears that a good deal of what postmodernism consists of > is > > not > > > > giving a damn if you know what you're saying. The > > postmodernist's > > > > motto: "Only disconnect". I guess that explains the lot: if > you > > don't > > > > give a damn what you're saying you can say anything; and best > of > > all, > > > > if you're saying it to other postmodernists, they don't give > a > > damn > > > > whether you're saying anything, or whether you give a damn > > whether > > > > you're saying anything. What a racket. > > > > > > > > > > What an easy thing to say! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christophe Casamassima > > Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology > > University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. > > > > > > -- > > ___________________________________________ > > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ > > > > > > Powered By Outblaze > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:45:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain well . . . I seem to have picked up that idea from fifty years of conversations with people throughout the Americas and relatively extensive reading -- The usual objection comes when people in my part of the Americas refer to themselves as "American" in such a way to imply that people in La Paz or Toronto are not also "American." If you would prefer not to be included in the term "American," that's your right -- but surely you aren't denying the term to the rest of us, no? On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 11:45:00 +0000, George Bowering wrote: > On 6-Jun-06, at 11:17 AM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > I live in a place that is called > > America by most people who live in other parts of North and South > > America > > Where did you get that idea? > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:04:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 9, Spring 2006, Now Online! Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed ********************************************************** Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 9, Spring 2006, Now Online! Featuring poetry by Rodney Nelson, kari edwards, Sybil Kollar, Lanny Quarles, Michelle Greenblatt and Sheila Murphy, Jan Clausen, Jeanne Shannon, Alan Sondheim, Janet Jackson, Bob Marcacci, and Simon Perchik; fiction by D. L. Luke, Grant Tracey, Charles Rammelkamp, Mark MacNamara, and Rebecca Kraft; and nonfiction by Lori Horvitz and Tim Murphy. http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr9.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- Submissions to the Hamilton Stone Review Hamilton Stone Review invites submissions of poetry, fiction and creative nonfiction for Issue #10, which will be out in October 2006. Poetry submissions should go, only by email, directly to Halvard Johnson at halvard@earthlink.net. Send fiction and creative non-fiction submissions, only by email, to Lynda Schor at lyndaschor@earthlink.net. Snailmail contributions are not accepted. Please indicate your name in the subject line of your message and that you're submitting to Hamilton Stone Review. So labeled, MS Word attachments are fine. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Hamilton Stone Review is produced by Hamilton Stone Editions http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ PLEASE SEND THIS ALONG TO OTHERS ********************************************************** Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:12:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case it wasn't clear, I did say Spanish is "another" American language, not "the other" American language. Some of you don't seem to mind "Quechua, Aymara, Cherokee, Nahuatl, and Guarani" as being called "American" languages? If you're so concerned, why say that Cherokee for instance should be called an "American" language, when America is named after an Italian navigator? Our government's war against Cherokee being a shared language was won more than a century ago. But it is my hope, and the hope of many others, that our fascist government NOT win THIS war against Spanish. Maybe we should ONLY elect candidates who would support speaking in tongues as the legal, national language of the day, which would make for some VERY interesting presidential debates, no? Jonathan Skinner and I had lunch not long ago in a pocket of Philadelphia where Spanish is the first language. And in the restaurant no one spoke English. It was a good thing he was there because I had no idea what was being said to me any more than they could understand me, and he played interpreter. That experience helped me make my mind up that this is a language of necessity. Every public school should be teaching English and Spanish as requirements, not MAKING the Spanish speaking children learn only English. And there IS a deeply rooted racism/classism surrounding the tyrannical act of MAKING people speak only English. You can't possibly tell me that that needs to be pointed out. The beautiful thing about all these different languages that we are constantly confronted with is that it's our most striking example of FEELING separated, and getting the urge to make that separation mend, making something new, for everyone. Let's MAKE globalization backfire on the international corporate thugs by making globalization be about a world of human beings learning to live TOGETHER. Spanish is the language of REAL change on the planet right now. Countries like Bolivia and Venezuela are saying FUCK YOU on a daily basis! And NOT mind you to trade power of one thug for another, but to GIVE power to the people. The Venezuelan Constitution puts our own to SHAME! Chavez and his genius cabinet have forged a document that is the most inclusive and caring constitution you will find. And THIS document helps make Spanish a dangerous language to American interests on the verge of making CAFTA make NAFTA look like little league. For anyone who is interested I have a link to an interview that I did earlier this year with Mary Kalyna on her return from the World Social Forum in Venezuela. Here's the link: _http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_phillysound_archive.html_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_phillysound_archive.html) Does anyone have advice for what is the best book, or CD, or class or whatever to learn Spanish? I've been looking at books, but thought I'd ask in case someone knows an excellent one. Much appreciated, CAConrad CAConrad is the author of Deviant Propulsion (Soft Skull Press, 2006) for poem samples from the book go to: _http://CAConrad.blogspot.com_ (http://caconrad.blogspot.com/) "Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained...." --William Blake for PhillySound: NEW POETRY: _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) for CAConrad's tarot services:_ http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com_ (http://lightoflakshmi.blogspot.com/) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 08:23:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The US is one of the few countries whose poetry is marginalized. I = suggest that this is because Americans--unlike most cultures--don't = value their language. So when I hear politicians defending English, even = if their real concerns may be nefarious, I take it as a good sign. In fact, the debate in Congress was not about learning other languages, = this was encouraged. It was about honoring a foundational language our = culture can call its own. English, after all, is the least regressive of = languages, and the most tolerant of welcoming words into its lexicon. No = language is foreign to it. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 08:34:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But isn't the defense of English really some sort of racist bull And about the marginalization of poetry in the US... isn't poetry generally considered some sort of academic, nerdy, loser freak show in most cultures? Maybe in the US there is less pretention about dismissing poetry, and other high end European courtliness, tea bags, and high tea cucumber sandwiches, but even the Russians look at you in a weird way when you talk about being a poet in today's world. Even the Russians! I am not sure of this but... Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:23 AM Subject: Spanish is not a foreign language The US is one of the few countries whose poetry is marginalized. I suggest that this is because Americans--unlike most cultures--don't value their language. So when I hear politicians defending English, even if their real concerns may be nefarious, I take it as a good sign. In fact, the debate in Congress was not about learning other languages, this was encouraged. It was about honoring a foundational language our culture can call its own. English, after all, is the least regressive of languages, and the most tolerant of welcoming words into its lexicon. No language is foreign to it. -Joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:36:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The Senate did not feel compelled to honor a foundational language during the years when the bulk of the immigration was from Europe. Honor has very little to do with anything the Senate does these days. On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 08:23:52 +0000, Joel Weishaus wrote: > The US is one of the few countries whose poetry is marginalized. I suggest that this is because Americans--unlike most cultures--don't value their language. So when I hear politicians defending English, even if their real concerns may be nefarious, I take it as a good sign. > In fact, the debate in Congress was not about learning other languages, this was encouraged. It was about honoring a foundational language our culture can call its own. English, after all, is the least regressive of languages, and the most tolerant of welcoming words into its lexicon. No language is foreign to it. > > -Joel > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 08:37:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amalio Madueno Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language Comments: cc: pen@SPEAKEASY.NET In-Reply-To: <4485C1A2.3020008@speakeasy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pablito, American also means, of course, Apache-Chiricahua, Navajo, Hopi, Zuni, Chumash, Ute-Piute, Diegeno, Pala, Mimbres, etc., & all Tewa/Tiwa derivatives of Athabascan. MEX --- Paul Nelson wrote: > Haas Bianchi wrote: > > Spanish, English, Portuguese and French are NOT > American languages. > I guess it depends on your definition of America. > > Paul Nelson > > Quechua, > > Aymara, Cherokee, Nahuatl, and Guarani are > American languages. > > > > RB > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:38 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language > > > > On Jun 6, 2006, at 7:56 AM, Craig Allen Conrad > wrote: > > > > > >> So I've decided to be as vocal as I can be about > learning Spanish this > >> year. Mainly because I want to say as often as I > can, "I am NOT > >> learning a foreign language, but another American > language!" Because > >> this IS TRUE! > >> > > > > Hear! Hear! The US has always been multilingual. > > > > "Never eat anything larger than your head." > > --B. Kliban > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard@gmail.com > > halvard@earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Paul E. Nelson > www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org > www.AuburnCommunityRadio.com > www.SPLAB.org > 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 > Slaughter, WA 98001 > 253.735.6328 > toll-free 888.735.6328 > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:40:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: LOTS OF BEAUTIFUL MOXIE (This Friday Night)! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Here's a message from Rebecca Moore the co-curator of an event I'm involved with happening this Friday night. Hope you can make it: *LOTS OF BEAUTIFUL MOXIE* *Hello Friends...* I co-curate this event with the amazing souls at Issue Project Room. We are already declaring it a tradition! Cause we know we must keep highlighting songs of rebellion and uprising and protest... must keep encouraging those songs to be written, make a place for those songs to be continually sung, support the artists who sing them, and bring people together to hear them. New ones, old ones - we want to hear all of them. We use the term "song" loosely and abstractly... the evening is part musicians and singers, but also part film (visual songs, in my book) and part spoken word (songs of the heart and soul). We have to keep each other buoyed up between rallies, marches, and administrations... so you can keep your heart strong and chin up. The artists can come with just about anything related to a person standing up against status quo - it can even be about rebelling against rebelling - - as long as we have on display all the beautiful moxie people can be made up of. please come hang - get your ire up and your game on... XO RM *Friday, June 9th - At ISSUE PROJECT ROOM * *(everybody's favorite music space in the big silo right on the Gowanus Canal):* *Songs of Rebellion II!* a night of *music*, *poetry* and *film*, to keep the fires of rebellion and action lit and burning, featuring... *Patrick Walsh* *Chris Rael* *Bethany Spiers* *Faith Schwartz* *Oliver Ray* *Wanda Phipps* *Bradley Eros* *Joel Schlemowitz* *Nora from Tribal Soundz* *Professor Louie and Fast Eddie* *Stephan Smith* *Hanifa Walidah* *Sarah Ibrahim* *8:00 p.m., $10* *at ISSUE Project Room* *400 Carroll Street* *(between Bond & Nevins)* *on the Gowanus Canal* *718-330-0313* *info@issueprojectroom.org* *www.issueprojectroom.org* *Directions: Easy to get to from Manhattan! - - * *Brooklyn-bound F / G trains to Carroll St. (3 stops - 15 minutes from 2nd avenue F stop)* *2.5 blocks walk from stop (between Bond & Nevins)* _______________________________________________ Issueprojectroom-news mailing list Issueprojectroom-news@issueprojectroom.org http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/issueprojectroom-news -- Wanda Phipps Check out my website MIND HONEY http://www.mindhoney.com and my latest book of poetry Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems available at: http://www.softskull.com/detailedbook.php?isbn=1-932360-31-X and http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/193236031X/ref=rm_item ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:48:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amalio Madueno Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <021e01c68a47$e8d3e5f0$6401a8c0@LENOVO5E22278F> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Micheal & Joe, Yes, poetry is marginalized in the US. But I don't think it is because Americans assign less value to their language. On the contrary, language is what we are all about. I think poetry is partly (& originally) marginalized because of the attitude Micheal Rothenberg refracts: the isolation of poetry from the public in the academy. This trend has been mitigated somewhat by the trends in spoken word, slam, hip-hop-rap & bouts that bring poetic language directly to the public & are getting some media attention. But I think there is an additional "cause" of this marginalization in addition to the selfishness of academe. By this I mean how the "value of imagination", which should be the principle province of poetry (see the poetics of W. Stevens, R. Blaser, W.C.Williams, A. Fletcher for starters) has been appropriated by the media, film/tv, politics and marketing industries. Those who are in a position to reward imagination are putting all their money in these places rather than into poetry writing or events (even the academy provides skimpy funds for poetry). The scale of poetry writing & events as celebrations of the imagination is miniscule compared to contemporary competitors I list above. The "language professionals" of imagination & energy who might turn to poetry are being swallowed up by fame & fortune provided by these other dominants in the culture. What is needed to address this? -Amalio Madueno --- Michael Rothenberg wrote: > But isn't the defense of English really some sort of > racist bull > And about the marginalization of poetry in the US... > isn't poetry generally > considered some sort of academic, nerdy, loser freak > show in most cultures? > Maybe in the US there is less pretention about > dismissing poetry, and other > high end European courtliness, tea bags, and high > tea cucumber sandwiches, > but even the Russians look at you in a weird way > when you talk about being a > poet in today's world. Even the Russians! > I am not sure of this but... > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joel Weishaus" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:23 AM > Subject: Spanish is not a foreign language > > > The US is one of the few countries whose poetry is > marginalized. I suggest > that this is because Americans--unlike most > cultures--don't value their > language. So when I hear politicians defending > English, even if their real > concerns may be nefarious, I take it as a good sign. > In fact, the debate in Congress was not about > learning other languages, this > was encouraged. It was about honoring a foundational > language our culture > can call its own. English, after all, is the least > regressive of languages, > and the most tolerant of welcoming words into its > lexicon. No language is > foreign to it. > > -Joe > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:06:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: MICHAEL PALMER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII HERE IS MICHAEL PALMERS BLURB for AARON ROSEN'S RELUCTANT MIRRORS (Sheep Meadow Press)- The Hall of Mirrors is also of course a site of infinite reflection. It is in that place Aaron Rosen chooses to stand and confront--reflect upon--the eternally enigmatic smile of Mimesis and the fleeing figuire of Truth. Like Leonardo before his wall, he discovers marvels of form there, flesh, shadow, pulse, ash, syllables and silence, glyphs of our becoming and unbecoming. Posted by Bill Sylvester: Aaron Rosen was part of the UB English Department for many years, and it is a pleasure to see poems printed in a trade edition. Bill Sylvester ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:27:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: book suggestion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline anybody know of a good book* (or books) about may '68? *in english, please--don't want to learn too much -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:30:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: book suggestion In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The English translation isn=27t all that great=2C but I would = recommend =22Enrag=E9s and Situationists in the Occupations Movement=2C=22= by = Ren=E9 Vi=E9net=2C and Daniel Singer=27s book-length reportage (I=27ve f= orgotten = the name=2C but you can look up Singer on bookfinder=2Ecom or amazon=2Ec= om = and come up with the title)=2E ----- Original Message ----- From=3A kevin thurston =3Ckevin=2Ethurston=40GMAIL=2ECOM=3E Date=3A Wednesday=2C June 7=2C 2006 2=3A27 pm Subject=3A book suggestion =3E anybody know of a good book* (or books) about may =2768=3F =3E = =3E *in english=2C please--don=27t want to learn too much =3E = =3E -- = =3E http=3A//fuckinglies=2Eblogspot=2Ecom =3E ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:30:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: book suggestion In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also, Tom Nairn and Angelo Quattrocchi's "Beginning of the End," reissued by Verso. ----- Original Message ----- From: kevin thurston Date: Wednesday, June 7, 2006 2:27 pm Subject: book suggestion > anybody know of a good book* (or books) about may '68? > > *in english, please--don't want to learn too much > > -- > http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:34:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: book suggestion and it's fim version In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit there is a film by chris marker Le Fond de l'air est rouge a long movie in french with subtitles which taught me much more than i wanted to know about May 68 best line - which i still remember - and used in a poem the barricade is there for your protection - please don not stand on the barricade http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076042/ kevin thurston wrote: anybody know of a good book* (or books) about may '68? *in english, please--don't want to learn too much -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:45:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <200606071345.JAA21073@webmail18.cac.psu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As a Canadian, my objection is to the USA referring to itself as "America," but I understand that it comes from the same personality that refers to all USAmerican sports championships as "world championships." gb On 7-Jun-06, at 6:45 AM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > well . . . I seem to have picked up that idea from fifty years of > conversations > with people throughout the Americas and relatively extensive reading > -- The > usual objection comes when people in my part of the Americas refer to > themselves as "American" in such a way to imply that people in La Paz > or > Toronto are not also "American." If you would prefer not to be > included in the > term "American," that's your right -- but surely you aren't denying > the term to > the rest of us, no? > > On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 11:45:00 +0000, George Bowering wrote: > >> On 6-Jun-06, at 11:17 AM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> >>> I live in a place that is called >>> America by most people who live in other parts of North and South >>> America >> >> Where did you get that idea? >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > > George Bowering, M.A. Once saw Marianne Moore plain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:34:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <20060607164827.18171.qmail@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:48 PM 6/7/2006, you wrote: >Micheal & Joe, >Yes, poetry is marginalized in the US. But I don't >think it is because Americans assign less value to >their language. On the contrary, language is what we >are all about. I think poetry is partly (& originally) >marginalized because of the attitude Micheal >Rothenberg refracts: the isolation of poetry from the >public in the academy. Yup. >This trend has been mitigated >somewhat by the trends in spoken word, slam, >hip-hop-rap & bouts that bring poetic language >directly to the public & are getting some media >attention. But I think there is an additional "cause" >of this marginalization in addition to the selfishness >of academe. By this I mean how the "value of >imagination", which should be the principle province >of poetry (see the poetics of W. Stevens, R. Blaser, >W.C.Williams, A. Fletcher for starters) has been >appropriated by the media, film/tv, politics and >marketing industries. Those who are in a position to >reward imagination are putting all their money in >these places rather than into poetry writing or events >(even the academy provides skimpy funds for poetry). >The scale of poetry writing & events as celebrations >of the imagination is miniscule compared to >contemporary competitors I list above. The "language >professionals" of imagination & energy who might turn >to poetry are being swallowed up by fame & fortune >provided by these other dominants in the culture. What >is needed to address this? >-Amalio Madueno I doubt very much that potential poets have been persuaded not to write poems by the lure of money. Poetry has never paid as well as other ways of recycling one's education. >--- Michael Rothenberg >wrote: > > > But isn't the defense of English really some sort of > > racist bull > > And about the marginalization of poetry in the US... > > isn't poetry generally > > considered some sort of academic, nerdy, loser freak > > show in most cultures? Nope. Check out Latin America. Really. > > Maybe in the US there is less pretention about > > dismissing poetry, and other > > high end European courtliness, tea bags, and high > > tea cucumber sandwiches, > > but even the Russians look at you in a weird way > > when you talk about being a > > poet in today's world. Even the Russians! > > I am not sure of this but... > > Michael > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joel Weishaus" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:23 AM > > Subject: Spanish is not a foreign language > > > > > > The US is one of the few countries whose poetry is > > marginalized. I suggest > > that this is because Americans--unlike most > > cultures--don't value their > > language. So when I hear politicians defending > > English, even if their real > > concerns may be nefarious, I take it as a good sign. > > In fact, the debate in Congress was not about > > learning other languages, this > > was encouraged. It was about honoring a foundational > > language our culture > > can call its own. English, after all, is the least > > regressive of languages, > > and the most tolerant of welcoming words into its > > lexicon. Superlatives are always suspect. I'd guess that languages that entered the larger world late have been pretty tolerant of words from other sources. Hebrew, for one, which began the 20th century with a 2000 year old vocabulary. What the hell does "regressive" mean when applied to language? Mark (feeling grumpy as usual) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:00:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060607152858.05b13930@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Jun 7, 2006, at 3:34 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > I doubt very much that potential poets have been persuaded not to > write poems by the lure of money. Poetry has never paid as well as > other ways of recycling one's education. You don't think "potential poets" might have turned their skills to money-making uses in, say, fiction writing, advertising, etc.? I can think of even accomplished poets who have. Maybe the double negative's confusing me. "If you can't stand Byzantine intrigue, get out of the cabal." --New Yorker cartoon Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:01:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: The Lyre seeks submissions of poetry, fiction & art Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed The Lyre, a spawning literary publication, is seeking submissions for a debut periodical. Submissions on any subject welcome. Submit your poetry, short stories, 2-D black & white artwork or photography to: The Lyre PO Box 341 Viroqua WI 54665 (Enclose an SASE if you wish to have your work returned.) or email to the_lyre@mwt.net Email inquiries to the_lyre@mwt.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:08:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree, Mark, about your point on money ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language > At 12:48 PM 6/7/2006, you wrote: >>Micheal & Joe, >>Yes, poetry is marginalized in the US. But I don't >>think it is because Americans assign less value to >>their language. On the contrary, language is what we >>are all about. I think poetry is partly (& originally) >>marginalized because of the attitude Micheal >>Rothenberg refracts: the isolation of poetry from the >>public in the academy. > > > Yup. > >>This trend has been mitigated >>somewhat by the trends in spoken word, slam, >>hip-hop-rap & bouts that bring poetic language >>directly to the public & are getting some media >>attention. But I think there is an additional "cause" >>of this marginalization in addition to the selfishness >>of academe. By this I mean how the "value of >>imagination", which should be the principle province >>of poetry (see the poetics of W. Stevens, R. Blaser, >>W.C.Williams, A. Fletcher for starters) has been >>appropriated by the media, film/tv, politics and >>marketing industries. Those who are in a position to >>reward imagination are putting all their money in >>these places rather than into poetry writing or events >>(even the academy provides skimpy funds for poetry). >>The scale of poetry writing & events as celebrations >>of the imagination is miniscule compared to >>contemporary competitors I list above. The "language >>professionals" of imagination & energy who might turn >>to poetry are being swallowed up by fame & fortune >>provided by these other dominants in the culture. What >>is needed to address this? >>-Amalio Madueno > > I doubt very much that potential poets have been persuaded not to > write poems by the lure of money. Poetry has never paid as well as > other ways of recycling one's education. > > > > >>--- Michael Rothenberg >>wrote: >> >> > But isn't the defense of English really some sort of >> > racist bull >> > And about the marginalization of poetry in the US... >> > isn't poetry generally >> > considered some sort of academic, nerdy, loser freak >> > show in most cultures? > > > Nope. Check out Latin America. Really. > >> > Maybe in the US there is less pretention about >> > dismissing poetry, and other >> > high end European courtliness, tea bags, and high >> > tea cucumber sandwiches, >> > but even the Russians look at you in a weird way >> > when you talk about being a >> > poet in today's world. Even the Russians! >> > I am not sure of this but... >> > Michael >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joel Weishaus" >> > To: >> > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:23 AM >> > Subject: Spanish is not a foreign language >> > >> > >> > The US is one of the few countries whose poetry is >> > marginalized. I suggest >> > that this is because Americans--unlike most >> > cultures--don't value their >> > language. So when I hear politicians defending >> > English, even if their real >> > concerns may be nefarious, I take it as a good sign. >> > In fact, the debate in Congress was not about >> > learning other languages, this >> > was encouraged. It was about honoring a foundational >> > language our culture >> > can call its own. English, after all, is the least >> > regressive of languages, >> > and the most tolerant of welcoming words into its >> > lexicon. > > > Superlatives are always suspect. I'd guess that languages that > entered the larger world late have been pretty tolerant of words from > other sources. Hebrew, for one, which began the 20th century with a > 2000 year old vocabulary. > > What the hell does "regressive" mean when applied to language? > > > Mark (feeling grumpy as usual) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:51:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <446B15FD-36B5-4821-AFF3-43135000C672@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Confuses me too. People driven (or given, in Creeley's phrase) to write poetry will do so, even if they work at insurance companies or write novels for their day jobs. If they really need to write poems and their day jobs eat whatever energy they need for the poems then they find different day jobs. If they're less committed to poetry it's probably just as well that they don't write poems. Even talent gets you only so far--staying-power counts for a lot. It's quaint to think of fiction writing as a road to wealth, considering how few actually pay for their computer paper out of their earnings as writers, but I imagine there are younger writers out there who are more optimistic about their chances.\ Mark At 04:00 PM 6/7/2006, you wrote: >On Jun 7, 2006, at 3:34 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> >>I doubt very much that potential poets have been persuaded not to >>write poems by the lure of money. Poetry has never paid as well as >>other ways of recycling one's education. > >You don't think "potential poets" might have turned their skills to >money-making >uses in, say, fiction writing, advertising, etc.? I can think of even >accomplished >poets who have. > >Maybe the double negative's confusing me. > >"If you can't stand Byzantine intrigue, > get out of the cabal." > --New Yorker cartoon > >Halvard Johnson >================ >halvard@gmail.com >halvard@earthlink.net >http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 09:44:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the americas does that term include us? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:20:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Betsy Andrews Subject: email for Eleni Sikelianos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey, can someone -- even the mighty Eleni herself? -- backchannel me with her email address, or given good decorum, just let her know I'm looking for her? peace, Betsy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:36:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <20060607164827.18171.qmail@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit amalio Madueno wrote: > Micheal & Joe, > Yes, poetry is marginalized in the US. But I don't > think it is because Americans assign less value to > their language. On the contrary, language is what we > are all about. Yes Garcia, but the language is corrupted through spin, political doublespeak and the onslaught of commercials. McClure said it is amazing the vocabulary kids these days have. Problem is most of the words they know are brand names. Paul Nelson > I think poetry is partly (& originally) > marginalized because of the attitude Micheal > Rothenberg refracts: the isolation of poetry from the > public in the academy. This trend has been mitigated > somewhat by the trends in spoken word, slam, > hip-hop-rap & bouts that bring poetic language > directly to the public & are getting some media > attention. But I think there is an additional "cause" > of this marginalization in addition to the selfishness > of academe. By this I mean how the "value of > imagination", which should be the principle province > of poetry (see the poetics of W. Stevens, R. Blaser, > W.C.Williams, A. Fletcher for starters) has been > appropriated by the media, film/tv, politics and > marketing industries. Those who are in a position to > reward imagination are putting all their money in > these places rather than into poetry writing or events > (even the academy provides skimpy funds for poetry). > The scale of poetry writing & events as celebrations > of the imagination is miniscule compared to > contemporary competitors I list above. The "language > professionals" of imagination & energy who might turn > to poetry are being swallowed up by fame & fortune > provided by these other dominants in the culture. What > is needed to address this? > -Amalio Madueno > > > --- Michael Rothenberg > wrote: > > >> But isn't the defense of English really some sort of >> racist bull >> And about the marginalization of poetry in the US... >> isn't poetry generally >> considered some sort of academic, nerdy, loser freak >> show in most cultures? >> Maybe in the US there is less pretention about >> dismissing poetry, and other >> high end European courtliness, tea bags, and high >> tea cucumber sandwiches, >> but even the Russians look at you in a weird way >> when you talk about being a >> poet in today's world. Even the Russians! >> I am not sure of this but... >> Michael >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joel Weishaus" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:23 AM >> Subject: Spanish is not a foreign language >> >> >> The US is one of the few countries whose poetry is >> marginalized. I suggest >> that this is because Americans--unlike most >> cultures--don't value their >> language. So when I hear politicians defending >> English, even if their real >> concerns may be nefarious, I take it as a good sign. >> In fact, the debate in Congress was not about >> learning other languages, this >> was encouraged. It was about honoring a foundational >> language our culture >> can call its own. English, after all, is the least >> regressive of languages, >> and the most tolerant of welcoming words into its >> lexicon. No language is >> foreign to it. >> >> -Joe >> >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.AuburnCommunityRadio.com www.SPLAB.org 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 Slaughter, WA 98001 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:34:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <2332.169.226.177.213.1149638199.squirrel@webmail.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable tonight i finally read posts from the beginning of this fun discussion. i like what you=B9ve said, adam, especially >>It is a great evolution that apreciates antiquity, but is aware that there is always another evolution o= n the horizon.<<=20 & what steve potter said early on >>It's probably more useful to talk about the way a particular work responds to the condition of postmodernity than whether a work is or is not itself postmodern.<< right on! a couple thoughts: just as we discover the mutability of =8Ctruth=B9 or =8Cconsesus reality,=B9 so too our comprehension of degrees of self(& other as self)-awareness or self-consciousness. these are reflected in postmodernism, a term, i wonder, defines itself best in the process of definition. i=B9m not trying to be obnoxious. to what steve potter stated, =B3There is less and less consensus reality, more and more isolated personal reality,=B2 i=B9d venture to say that it=B9s not about consensus reality vs. =8Cthe imaginary=B9 as psychosis/subconscious - rather consensus reality vs. the concept of subjective sensual experience & reciprocal causality...& even further, to m= y favorite(s), vs. projected/individuated/manifested/=8Cvalid=B9 reality. the parallel to quantum theory glares in this, despite disagreement over why al= l predictions have been =8Cproven right=B9 - there is no separation between the observer & the observed. i=B9m in the holographic camp, myself. this, i think, gives a snapshot of postmodernism =8Cnow=B9: everything is incremental, everything is relative, the universe expands at every coordinate, our sense, even en masse, is subjective. anything, everything, we know now may likely be =8Cproven=B9 =8Cwrong=B9 down the road. in all these discussions on the topic there are degrees of postmodernism, just as there are degrees of awareness. some are using the term as a way to acknowlege that we now know what we didn=B9t know then. i guess that=B9s a valid use (afte= r all, everything is!). but the larger, more postmodern (yes, i dared to say that), understanding is the whole concept of nonlocality, just as the idea that there is no beginning and end to the universe. i find it really interesting how panicked that makes people & why some respond to postmodernism (& the concept of it, as little as it=B9s understood) so violently. binary much? all best, hassen **adam wrote: >>With this sort of thing there is a fine line between geniu= s and asshole.<< hehe! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:36:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: george thompson Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suppose that a lot of us anticipated that this discussion would degenerate into vapid generalization, and now it has. Also sprach Marcus Bales: It appears that a good deal of what postmodernism consists of is not giving a damn if you know what you're saying. The postmodernist's motto: "Only disconnect". I guess that explains the lot: if you don't give a damn what you're saying you can say anything; and best of all, if you're saying it to other postmodernists, they don't give a damn whether you're saying anything, or whether you give a damn whether you're saying anything. What a racket. I urge Marcus Bales to read McEvilley, who is a classicist, and a Pyrrhonist pledged to the school of Diogenes of Sinope, and a hard core cynic. To dismiss McEvilley's postmodernism in these terms is pure bombastic folly based on utter ignorance. What a waste of time. George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 19:53:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: LOUIS CABRI Subject: Jack Hirschman's translation of V. Kamensky's "Constantinople" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Dear Poetics, I'm looking for Jack Hirschman's English translation of V. Kamensky's poem "Constantinople." He did it up as a broadside some time ago (1970s?). He can't find a copy among his papers. Since it's a visual poem, I'd like to see the translation layed out a la original. If anybody has a lead on this, I'd appreciate hearing about it. I believe Hirschman is currently Poet Laureate of San Francisco. Thanks, Louis lcabri@uwindsor.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:20:06 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Steve Carll Comments: To: b-theater@FACTORYSCHOOL.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill-- I have not seen Steve Carll's name in a long time, and he waws on fire when he stopped publishing so it seems like it is that material, so I fully endorse the collection unseen, he practically disappeared after running an important mag called Antynem (sp?) from the west coast, glad to see you put this out in your short press-run series. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 22:24:37 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Pavement Saw 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The feature for Pavement Saw 11 will be CANDACE KAUCHER an fairly unknown poet from Philly, other poets who will be a part of this issue will include Mairead Byrne, Kathleen Burgess and Michael Metz. We are accepting submissions from others, submit 5 poems to us from now up until August 30th. Only people who appear in our journal are considered for our full length collections printed in editions of 1050 to 1650 copies. Send an SASE if you wish us to consider your poems. The issues are printed in a run of 551 copies which sell out within 1 year. We pay 4 issues for each contributor, which is usually 2 or more poems. Issue 8 & 10 are available for $8 each. Issue 9 is available for $12. The first seven issues are sold out. Thanks & Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 00:00:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hot Whiskey Press Subject: A Celebration of the Editors In-Reply-To: <4b2211bd0606072258p1dd1e456o8323f1a327212510@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Greetings Gang, The second Hot Whiskey reading is next week and will be a celebration of some small press editors in and around Boulder. Here's the info: Thursday June 15th, 7:30PM at Trident (in the backyard) w Noah Eli Gordon (Braincase) John Sakkis (Both Both) Abbey Pleviak (Wyrd Tree) Kate Sloan Fiffer (Wyrd Tree) This event is free Trident Booksellers 940 Pearl St Boulder, CO 80302 (303) 443-3133 http://www.hotwhiskeypresents.blogspot.com/ -- Hot Whiskey Press www.hotwhiskeyblog.blogspot.com www.hotwhiskeypress.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:23:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Recent Nomadics blog posts Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , Lucifer Poetics Group , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recent Nomadics blog posts: Yet more Handke The Juan Cole affair More Revisionism: No Orientalism? No Multiculturism in Al Andalus? And Allen Ginsberg... Josephine Baker... Oscar Pastior's B=FCchner Prize can be read here: http://pjoris.blogspot.co apologies for any crosspostings. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Blasphemy is a victimless crime." -- a t-shirt sent to Salman Rushdie in the days of the Satanic Verses fatwa. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 Euro cell: 011 33 6 79 368 446 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 14:47:50 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <44869AAF.13813.4FC510F@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I think Sokal did it best with his unearthing of ignorance[1] within the PoMo disciplines wrt Science and technology. Not that anyone in "Science Studies" seemed to care - in fact, I remember a quote from a science studies guru boasting that he'd failed science in school. I'm with the idea that science is socially-constructed up until the point that sez all narratives are equal. You can be an expert in a domain and, if I can borrow GWB's habit of anthropomorphising abstract nouns, "science" is an expert par excellence in it's chosen fields. Science has been very successful bringing us magic ("any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C Clarke) , alchemy, (although you may want to wait until the gold has cooled down a bit) and raising the dead (defibrillators). One of science's successes has alas, been da bomb and now we really, really *can destroy the world. If one of the particle accelerators produced the right particle, there's a chance that existence could wink out altogether. For the first time in history, the True Believers - or someone like them - *can bring about the "End of Days"[2]. Ironic, no? Ironically, those who are steeped in Western rationality used it to bring about the "equality" of narratives (that's a paraphrase from here http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articles.php somewhere, for the indeterminists amongst you). To me, this act helped lay the conditions for letting the creationist genie out of the bottle, and those with an ideological axe and a power axis to grind it on are grinding awayl. Good luck with the faith-based science, guys! If you view a set of meta-narratives through the lens of adaptation, both Science and Religion have adapted to various cultural conditions throughout history. Science, with it's paradigm of continual revolution/evolution at no matter what the cost[3], is built for adaptation, has adapted better, coming to great significance in around 500 years - I think I'd identify Paracelus as the first alchemist who foreshadowed modern science with his attitude "does it work?". The word "scientist" didn't exist until the 1830s. I suspect there will always be a niche for religion, for those who blind themselves to reason; reason, however, is a bully, and once allowed in, it will force all miracles out[4]. Ramble over - I hope that I haven't been too generalised - Roger [1] http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/ My take on this is: Oh, look, indeterminacy! Fractals! Unknowability! the whole solar system is just a small atom in a giants body Everything changes - well, yes, and no. Transferring concepts btn disciplines is a dangerous hobby. Artistic responses seem to be more successful. [2] In a bit of gallows humour, I have a small bet with a friend of mine that Iran will - if they haven't already - deploy nuclear mines in their cities. Should anyone be foolish enough to invade, well, you get the picture. I'm hoping my bet won't pay off. [3] the phoebe and ross sketch where phoebe accuses ross of having no belief - or not strong enough beliefs - when he says that he would change his mind if evidence of god were unearthed. No, that's a feature, not a bug. That's the way science works. Religions change their stance throughout history as well of course, but it seems to me that most Western have this idea of immutability. [4] Doonesbury. -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "You better watch out, you better beware Albert says E=MC square" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:19:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi roger, glad to read your post. >I think Sokal did it best sokal is a different topic (though fun). & by socially-constructed, do you mean to say that it is 'real' or 'unreal'... >up until the point that sez all narratives are equal. because i feel that social constructivism is also a different topic. another thing that tickles me about postmodernism is the potential for qualification (convolution!). i'm unsure if you are addressing what i wrote but in case: i didn't assert a notion of equality. i'm not ambitious enough to construct or adhere to a [system of] measurement. & i don't believe that all narratives (or perceived realities) are so - so far as they are effective. perhaps their foundation is (if the approach is linear), i don't know. > Oh, look, indeterminacy! Fractals! Unknowability! the whole > solar system is just a small atom in a giants body Everything > changes - well, yes, and no. in/determinacy is irrelevant - that's another point of postmodernism, thankfully. simultaneity rocks. >Transferring concepts btn disciplines is > a dangerous hobby. Artistic responses seem to be more successful. speaking as an artist, depends on what one finds of value in the created work. i like the idea of being relevant* to my time. or my interpretation of it. as a poet, i'm interested in truth - that is, what does not contradict my sensual & conceptual faculty. i find primary value in the individually perceived/experienced moment. thus, my potential indeterminacy is neither a scapegoat nor an existential dilemma. *consistency between disciplines is a strong argument for foundation & direction if that's what interests an artist/audience. despite the temptation to further digress, i'll sign off. best, hassen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:26:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Virginia Woolf, Wim Wenders, Neo-Form on Stoning the Devil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New on Stoning the Devil (www.adamfieled.blogspot.com): -- a review of Virginia Woolf's classic "To the Lighthouse" --a reviews of Wim Wenders' "Paris, Texas" -- two more Neo-Form theses much, much more... check out Gerardo Yepiz on PFS Post (www.artrecess.blogspot.com) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:38:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <44877F0D.3030000@adelphia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 7 Jun 2006 at 21:36, george thompson wrote: > I urge Marcus Bales to read McEvilley, who is a classicist, and a > Pyrrhonist pledged to the school of Diogenes of Sinope, and a hard > core cynic. To dismiss McEvilley's postmodernism in these terms is > pure bombastic folly based on utter ignorance. I've read McEvilley, and listened to him read on the web, too. He's not a postmodernist -- he's a progressive liberal, much like me. His view is not that the human condition has changed with the advent of the atom bomb; his view is not that the human world view has changed with the advent of some change in the human condition. He's using the same old tools of rationality and the great liberal ideas that have stimulated so much that's good in the world now. If you call McEvilley a "postmodern" you might as well call John Stuart Mill one, too -- and perhaps you do. "Post-Modernism is a deeply revised attitude toward history that attempts to separate it form the concept of providence, denies any claims of inevitability, and aims at a multi-cultural solution to the problem of history, rather than an imperialistic one. " -- McEvilley Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 10:54:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: ACM poetry magazine Chicago Benefit Comments: To: Fred Sasaki MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends of Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com WHEN: Monday, June 12, 7pm on WHERE: The Hideout, 1354West Wabansia, www.hideoutchicago.com I am attaching a link to a reading and benefit that is being hosted by ACM and Poetry Magazine. I would urge all of you to attend if you can it features Chicago poets John Beer, Robyn Schiff, Dan Beachy-Quick, Simone Muench, Peter Markus, Chris Glomski Thanks for Supporting Chicago Poetry Regards Raymond L Bianchi Editor Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:44:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mark: Regressive means French, for example, which is, especially in Quebec, = xenophobic. I don't see why, as I get the feeling here, that poets whose first = language is English are ashamed of it. Our rotten government having to = take the lead in defending our language is embarrassing. A Poet Laureate = of Moscow lives in my building. I can _feel_ the love he has for the = words of his language.This isn't about politics, racism, or the like. = It's about love. =20 -Joel =20 > What the hell does "regressive" mean when applied to language? >=20 >=20 > Mark (feeling grumpy as usual)=20 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:59:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <031a01c68b1a$c3e71630$5ffdfc83@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a fundamental difference between Indigenous and American. In many parts of the world there are peoples whose culture is long in a certain place, whose language is native to a certain place and this is one kind of culture. You can make an argument that Arabs, Persians, Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, some African groups and some European groups fit this category. Except for the Indigenous cultures of Mexico, the Andes, and the Amazon this cannot be said anywhere in he American continent and this is something new for world history. American is a hybrid of (Depending on the country) European, Indigenous, African, and Asian. This hybrid also includes religion which is quite important throughout the American continent. So when you hear Spanish spoken with a Voseo accent from Argentina, or Portuguese spoken with the heavy Italian inflection of a Paulista or a Minnesotan speaking English with an inflection of Scandanavia you are hearing a hybrid that is American but and this is important but for the most part it is an imposed culture with a few Indigenous words - not a bad culture just an imposed one- I speak, Spanish, Portuguese and English but none of these are Indigenous American languages- "America"s (Or whatever name you want to use for our continent) native languages are the indigenous ones. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:44 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Spanish is not a foreign language Hi Mark: Regressive means French, for example, which is, especially in Quebec, xenophobic. I don't see why, as I get the feeling here, that poets whose first language is English are ashamed of it. Our rotten government having to take the lead in defending our language is embarrassing. A Poet Laureate of Moscow lives in my building. I can _feel_ the love he has for the words of his language.This isn't about politics, racism, or the like. It's about love. -Joel > What the hell does "regressive" mean when applied to language? > > > Mark (feeling grumpy as usual) > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:04:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Evans Subject: Lipstick of Noise - Recent Additions Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed The Lipstick of Noise: Listening & Linking to Poetry Audio Files PHP version > http://www.thirdfactory.net/lipstick.php XML-feed > feed://www.thirdfactory.net/index.xml Online Track Listing > http://www.thirdfactory.net/lipstick- tracklist.html Tracks discussed to date (most recent first): ***new*** Nicole Brossard - Le Cou de Lee Miller Gertrude Stein - If I Told Him: A Completed Portrait of Picasso Frank O'Hara - Ode to Joy / To Hell With It Ted Berrigan - Red Shift Joe Brainard - Tuesday, February 18th, 1971 ***previously announced*** Ernst Jandl - What You Can Do Without Vowels Amiri Baraka - Black Dada Nihilismus (DJ Spooky Mix) Bernadette Mayer - Catullus 42 Rae Armantrout - Next Life Paul Dutton - Untitled Mei-mei Berssenbrugge - from Safety Kenneth Goldsmith - Sings Adorno Kit Robinson - Return on Word bpNichol - Not What the Siren Sang but What the Frag Ment Brenda Coultas - Opening the Cabinet Anselm Berrigan - We're Not Going to Turn Me In Tom Raworth - Catacoustics Tracie Morris - My Great Grand Aunt Meets a Bush Supporter Brian Kim Stefans / Roger Pellet - I Know a Man Ron Padgett - Bob Creeley Breakthrough Barbara Guest - An Emphasis Falls on Reality & Quoting Adorno Sawako Nakayasu - Capacity Gary Sullivan - Hello & Welcome to Poetry Phone Elizabeth Willis - Kiss Me Deadly Ange Mlinko - Poem Bejeweled by Proper Nouns Jaap Blonk - Flux-de-Bouche John Wieners - The Garbos & Dietrichs Linh DInh - Acoustics Erica Hunt - Ecstasy Tips on what to listen to next always appreciated! Steve ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 10:19:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amalio Madueno Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060607162720.05b218e0@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's not about "being pursuaded." It's about environment. To make a sports analogy, an athlete with default potential to play professional tennis (add your desired professional sport name here_____) will apply his/her skills to another sport (and excell at it) in the absence of an infrastructure that publicly promotes, remunerates and rewards achievement. Everyone knows there's no money in poetry. But, with an infrastructure that publicly promoted, remunerated and rewarded poetic achievement/competition, the environment might well produce different cultural realities As for the poetry "persuasion" that's another discussion. --- Mark Weiss wrote: > Confuses me too. > > People driven (or given, in Creeley's phrase) to > write poetry will do > so, even if they work at insurance companies or > write novels for > their day jobs. If they really need to write poems > and their day jobs > eat whatever energy they need for the poems then > they find different > day jobs. If they're less committed to poetry it's > probably just as > well that they don't write poems. Even talent gets > you only so > far--staying-power counts for a lot. > > It's quaint to think of fiction writing as a road to > wealth, > considering how few actually pay for their computer > paper out of > their earnings as writers, but I imagine there are > younger writers > out there who are more optimistic about their > chances.\ > > Mark > > At 04:00 PM 6/7/2006, you wrote: > >On Jun 7, 2006, at 3:34 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> > >>I doubt very much that potential poets have been > persuaded not to > >>write poems by the lure of money. Poetry has never > paid as well as > >>other ways of recycling one's education. > > > >You don't think "potential poets" might have turned > their skills to > >money-making > >uses in, say, fiction writing, advertising, etc.? I > can think of even > >accomplished > >poets who have. > > > >Maybe the double negative's confusing me. > > > >"If you can't stand Byzantine intrigue, > > get out of the cabal." > > --New Yorker cartoon > > > >Halvard Johnson > >================ > >halvard@gmail.com > >halvard@earthlink.net > >http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >http://www.hamiltonstone.org > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:20:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain for years now Sokal has been going around inviting people who talk about the postmodern to step out of his office window to see if gravity is socially constructed -- this is, of course, an absolutley silly perversion of what people talking about science studies had been saying -- just as is the canard that poststructuralists say that "everything is relative" -- and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and where is it said? To find fault with a correspondence theory of truth is not to say that "everything is relative" -- and neither is even the most reductive version of standpoint theory -- To argue that science proceeds by means of forms of narrative is not at all to say that there is no way to reach judgments about the workings of various narratives -- it is to say that "laws of science" are just that; laws of science are human descriptions of natural phenomena; theories of things such as gravity don't levitate in some eternal realm of the ideal any more than we do -- the first responders to the Sokal hoax did indeed come off badly, and should have taken a few minutes to think more carefully about just what the situation they were in was -- but Sokal himself seems to have little appreciation of just what his hoax did and did not accomplish -- For example -- if you read Sokal at length you will find him making much of the discussion Derrida got into during the Q & A at the famous Johns Hopkins conference about an "Einsteinian constant" -- Well, it turns out, despite what Sokal said, that there was such a thing as an "Einsteinian constant" and that scientists have recently returned for another look to the idea that Einstein himself had at one time abandoned -- now, I think it's pretty clear that it isn't the same idea Derrida and company were talking about, but the point is that Sokal was a bit too hasty in his denunciations -- as the people at Social Text were a bit too hasty in responding to him -- and does anybody really believe that any critique of western reason iplies an adoption of irrationality? isn't that rather like saying that becaue Olson's postmodernism criticized western humanism he was opposed to humans? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 12:50:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Event at the Poetry Project 6/12 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Dears, Please join us next Monday for the last reading of the season! If you come, you can pick up a copy of the brand new issue of The Recluse.... We love you but we=B9ve chosen darkness, The Poetry Project Monday, June 12, 8pm Spring Workshop Reading Spring participants from the workshops of Tony Towle, Evelyn Reilly, David Henderson, Carol Mirakove and Joel Lewis will share work they wrote for class. Spring Calendar: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:20:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Marzahl, Kevin M" Subject: hippy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A postmodernist is anyone who someone in authority thinks is having more fun > than they are (paraphrasing Tuli Kupferberg's- or was it Ed Sanders'?- > definition of a hippy). I, too, have been called a hippy. So I shaved my hair completely but then was mistaken on and off for a skinhead. Later I took to bleaching my hair and people would in all seriousness ask me, "Are you from California?" These days I let it go for five or six weeks between trims and find that now others just project cartoon characters on me, e.g., Shaggy stepping off the screen from some spooky mystery. It's the most benign misrecognition yet so I more or less let it go. Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:53:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kenneth Wolman Subject: Re: hippy In-Reply-To: <20060608132051.hjey6363480oo4ww@webmail.iu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marzahl, Kevin M wrote: >> A postmodernist is anyone who someone in authority thinks is having >> more fun >> than they are (paraphrasing Tuli Kupferberg's- or was it Ed Sanders'?- >> definition of a hippy). > I, too, have been called a hippy. > So I shaved my hair completely but then was mistaken on and off for a > skinhead. > Later I took to bleaching my hair and people would in all seriousness > ask me, "Are you from California?" > These days I let it go for five or six weeks between trims and find > that now others just project cartoon characters on me, e.g., Shaggy > stepping off the screen from some spooky mystery. It's the most > benign misrecognition yet so I more or less let it go. I shaved my head four years ago and played with my resume. Blatant lies. They didn't help. But I really looked like a total putz with no hair. As for The Fugs.... Ed & Tuli, Huh? How old am I, for Godsake? Someone used to call me a beatnik. A beatnik. Right. Jack K., Allen G., Neal C., William B.: it sounded like an Anonymous program. If you shot up with Burroughs you could say you were a Friend of Bill's. I was old enough to see The Fugs at some theater on 2nd Avenue in 1968. They weren't as much fun as Zappa, whose guys all humped stuffed toys on-stage. But they talked real dirty and didn't think much of the whole Peace and Love thing from guys like the Beatles and Donovan. Now I find that some guys my age never heard of them I sang a friend "Dirty Old Man" a month ago, word for word, and also "Doin' All Right" and he was hysterical. My biggest mistake was I didn't marry the Slum Goddess. She wasn't the kind you brought home to mother. Given my mother, that would have been okay. Ken -------------------- Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com "Don't be a baby, be a man. Sell out."--Lenny Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 12:57:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: book suggestion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MAY '68 AND ITS AFTERLIVES by Kristin Ross is an excellent study of the original events and what happened to their presentation and manipulation through time afterwards--turning the political struggles and killing and suppression of workers into a cultural event mainly focused on students and intellectuals. The massive shutdown of the whole country is forgotten in the nostalgia for what occurred in Paris alone. Ross traces also the return of the political and workers movements in the fight against globalization. I lived in France at the time--in Arles, rather than Paris, though was in Paris in June that year and lived there for three months the following year in which repression especially of workers' movements was still very strong--much of what Ross writes is very true--the strikes were nationwide and there was a feeling of betrayal by a great many of people--the sense that the students got to go home for the summer and leave the brunt of the punishment to the workers and shop people and others who had to remain--also that the offical unions and communist party had sold them out. I got involved in 1969 with bomb throwing anarchist cells of workers from Renault factory which is where many of the strikes began--these people were far angrier and better students of the history of urban guerilla warfare than any of the "enrages", whom they regarded with contempt as exploiters of the working class for their self promotion within the cultural hierarchy and industry. (The May '68 industry--) Ross makes use of huge number of the documents of the time and shows that one of he main goals was equality--along with anti-imperilaism, anti-Americanism, and effects from Vienam and Alegeria, s well as showing how since May '68 the professional keepers of the flame have distorted and manufactured a culuturally and ethically acceptable official version and myth. It's very fascinating to read and observe this process in movement--raises many questions of the interelationships among aesthetics and politics-- Ross is also the author of a very good book called THE EMERGENCE OF SOCIAL SPACE Rimbaud and the Paris Commune. _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 14:08:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <200606081720.NAA05998@webmail12.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 8 Jun 2006 at 13:20, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and where is > it said? Here is, I think, a good example: On 6 Jun 2006 at 19:17, Warren Lloyd wrote: "What is your rationality? Do you suppose the rationality of say, the Yaruba tribe in Africa whose social hierarchies depend upon patterns and depths of facial scaration, is the same as your seemingly Euro centric rationality?" If it's not an example of equating all narratives, on what other grounds than that all narratives are equal would such a senseless question be asked? hsnmng@comcast.net writes: What steve potter said early on >> It's probably more useful to talk about the way a particular work >> responds to the condition of postmodernity than whether a work is >> or is not itself postmodern.<< right on!< But the issue at hand in this discussion, starting with my exchange with Alison Croggon, has been whether there is indeed something we can identify as "the condition of postmodernity" at all. To ask about the way a particular work responds to the condition of postmodernity is to beg the question: it assumes that there is a condition of postmodernity to respond to, and that is the question: is there such a condition? > To find fault with a correspondence theory of truth is not to say > that "everything is relative" < But that's not what's happening here. The postmodernists are taking, for example, the name of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and claiming that that principle makes "everything relative", even though the HUP doesn't apply in human-scale conditions, and not Heisenberg nor any other mathematician or physicist has ever said it did. It is an inappropriate leap by folks who hear "Uncertainty Principle" and conclude that "Everything is relative". You might as well hear "Everything is relative" and claim that therefore all sex is incest. It's silliness. On 8 Jun 2006 at 13:20, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > and does anybody really believe that any critique of western reason > implies an adoption of irrationality? Not "any critique" -- but certainly in those that say "Who gives a damn if you know what you are saying!", or that claim the scarification of the Yoruba which denotes social hierarchies is the same kind of thing as the Euro-centric rationality in discussion about whether there has been a significant change in the human condition that justifies calling our time "postmodern" or not. We do not lack for examples of irrationality in the utterances of the advocates and defenders of postmodernism here. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 20:02:52 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > On 8 Jun 2006 at 13:20, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and where is >> it said? > > Here is, I think, a good example: Actually, Marcus, I think Warren Lloyd is making exactly the opposite point [with regard to rationality(ies)] -- Yaruba and European rationalities are different. Also he doesn't say that either one is better than the other or that they're equal, just that they're (which would, to make a bad pun, on the face of it seem to be true) different. I also fail to see where "all narratives are equal" figures here. I have come across, or heard of, lunacies which would equate bus tickets with Shakespeare's First Folio, but that's not postmodernism, it's simply an occasional absurdity that kicks around academe. I don't find a problem with postmodernist -- for me, basically, Eliot and the usual suspects are modernist, after that we have postmodernist writing. (The rejection not simply of The Grand Narrative but of narrative per se. OK, oversimply put, but there.) Postmodern, on the other hand (if I haven't managed to somehow switch the terms) is the latest grinding howl that emerged from the various misinterpretations successively laid on poor de Saussure's +Course in General Linguistics+ -- structuralist, post-structuralist, finally postmodern. One is (primarily) a literary phenomenon, the other a critical/philosophical one. Sure, there's an overlap, but they're horses of a different colour. Or one is an ass and the other is a mule. Or whatever metaphor you want to generate from this -- Zebroid anyone? My two bits into the pot. Robin > > On 6 Jun 2006 at 19:17, Warren Lloyd wrote: > "What is your rationality? Do you suppose the rationality of say, the > Yaruba tribe in Africa whose social hierarchies depend upon patterns > and depths of facial scaration, is the same as your seemingly Euro > centric rationality?" > > If it's not an example of equating all narratives, on what other > grounds than that all narratives are equal would such a senseless > question be asked? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 16:11:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <031a01c68b1a$c3e71630$5ffdfc83@Weishaus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There are xenophobic elements, and moments, in France and Quebec, but I'd hardly call either place, or their language, xenophobic, and certainly as compared to the US. Despite the news to the contrary, Paris (for centuries) and Montreal (for decades) are homes to enormous populations of immigrants and foreign residents who maintain their languages.Paris in particular was for a long time the destination of choice for political exiles. You might want to take a look at Jason Weiss' "The Lights of Home; A Century of Latin American Writers in Paris." A good test might be any bookstore in Paris, with its wealth of translations. Speaking just of poetry, which I know more about, francophone readers have available a wealth of material that anglophones don't: major poets from Africa, the Middle East and Latin America who remain unknown in the US are readily available. Mark At 12:44 PM 6/8/2006, you wrote: >Hi Mark: > >Regressive means French, for example, which is, especially in >Quebec, xenophobic. >I don't see why, as I get the feeling here, that poets whose first >language is English are ashamed of it. Our rotten government having >to take the lead in defending our language is embarrassing. A Poet >Laureate of Moscow lives in my building. I can _feel_ the love he >has for the words of his language.This isn't about politics, racism, >or the like. It's about love. > >-Joel > > > > > What the hell does "regressive" mean when applied to language? > > > > > > Mark (feeling grumpy as usual) > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:20:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: litob Subject: August Highland is a Foreign Language Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original EXTENDED ONE MONTH BY POPULAR DEMAND! See August Highland's visual texts in New York: http://www.nyc-arts.org/detail.aspx?EventID=20436 http://www.clubfreetime.com/vieweventdetails.asp?ID=55231 CONCURRENT SHOW IN LOS ANGELES! http://www.laweekly.com/index.php?option=com_lsd&task=default&id=88085&Itemid=108 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/358 - Release Date: 6/7/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:24:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: Reading at the Smell Sun, June 25, 6:30 pm, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Smell Last Sunday of the Month Reading Series, featuring Aaron Kunin, Stacey Levine, Matthew Stadler, and Stephen Ratcliffe. The Smell, 247 S. Main Street, Los Angeles, Sun, June 25, 6:30 pm, $5, (323) 304-2277. Aaron Kunin writes poetry, criticism, and novels. Recent work has = appeared in Boog City, No: A Journal of the Arts, The Poetry Project Newsletter, = The Poker, and elsewhere. His book, Folding Ruler Star, has been published = by Fence Books, and his e-chapbook The Mauberly Series can be downloaded = from ubu editions. His work is in a minimalist tradition of strictly limited vocabularies and word-counts, and yet simultaneously revisits the themes = or structures of classic works by poets like Milton and Pound. Aaron = teaches 17th century literature at Pomona College. Stacey Levine is a Seattle-based author. Her books include My Horse and Other Stories and Dra--, a novel, both published by Sun & Moon Press; = her novel Frances Johnson was recently published by Clear Cut Press. She has written for the American Book Review, Bookforum, Nest, The Seattle = Times, The Stranger, and more frightening venues. Formerly a creative writing instructor, she is now working on a second collection of short fiction. Matthew Stadler is a novelist (Allan Stein, The Sex Offender, Landscape: Memory) and a contributor to Artforum, The Organ, Dwell, The Oregonian, Frieze, Domus, and others. He was the literary editor of Nest magazine = and is co-founder and editor of Clear Cut Press. Stephen Ratcliffe=B9s latest books of poetry are Portraits & Repetition = (The Post-Apollo Press, 2002) and SOUND/(system) (Green Integer, 2002). = Recent poems have appeared in 1913, Chain, Denver Quarterly, P-QUEUE, New = American Writing, LIT, Bombay Gin, Common Knowledge, War & Peace, Conjunctions = and NO. Listening to Reading, a book of essays on sound/shape and meaning = in experimental poetry, was published by SUNY Press in 2000. He has = recently completed a 1,000 page book of poems called HUMAN / NATURE (1,000 poems written in 1,000 consecutive days). He lives in Bolinas, California = where he publishes Avenue B, and teaches at Mills College in Oakland. Smell Last Sunday of the Month Reading Series is sponsored by Insert = Press, Les Figues Press, Make Now Press, and supported by Poets & Writers, Inc, through a grant it has received from The James Irvine Foundation. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:21:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Hamm Subject: Re: August Highland is a Foreign Language In-Reply-To: <003201c68b38$eda809c0$282b4b42@AugustDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've seen August's show at Poet's House and I liked it. Moreover, everyone else at Poet's House is very impressed, as well. Christine Hamm __________________ Buy my book or risk losing your thumbs. www.lulu.com/sharpNpencil __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 16:27:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060608155940.0532e750@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the subject was xenophobic languages, not people. France fights like hell to keep French free of foreign contaminants. US English just sucks it up. Hal On Jun 8, 2006, at 4:11 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > There are xenophobic elements, and moments, in France and Quebec, > but I'd hardly call either place, or their language, xenophobic, > and certainly as compared to the US. Despite the news to the > contrary, Paris (for centuries) and Montreal (for decades) are > homes to enormous populations of immigrants and foreign residents > who maintain their languages.Paris in particular was for a long > time the destination of choice for political exiles. You might want > to take a look at Jason Weiss' "The Lights of Home; A Century of > Latin American Writers in Paris." > > A good test might be any bookstore in Paris, with its wealth of > translations. Speaking just of poetry, which I know more about, > francophone readers have available a wealth of material that > anglophones don't: major poets from Africa, the Middle East and > Latin America who remain unknown in the US are readily available. > > Mark > > > At 12:44 PM 6/8/2006, you wrote: >> Hi Mark: >> >> Regressive means French, for example, which is, especially in >> Quebec, xenophobic. >> I don't see why, as I get the feeling here, that poets whose first >> language is English are ashamed of it. Our rotten government >> having to take the lead in defending our language is embarrassing. >> A Poet Laureate of Moscow lives in my building. I can _feel_ the >> love he has for the words of his language.This isn't about >> politics, racism, or the like. It's about love. >> >> -Joel >> >> >> >> > What the hell does "regressive" mean when applied to language? >> > >> > >> > Mark (feeling grumpy as usual) >> > "The thing to remember is that each time of life has its appropriate rewards, whereas when you're dead it's hard to find the light switch." --Woody Allen Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:33:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: August Highland is a Foreign Language In-Reply-To: <003201c68b38$eda809c0$282b4b42@AugustDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit that extended a month TO June 24 or a month BEYOND that to JULY 24? I will be there mid-July but not until and would like to see.... Tod litob wrote: EXTENDED ONE MONTH BY POPULAR DEMAND! See August Highland's visual texts in New York: http://www.nyc-arts.org/detail.aspx?EventID=20436 http://www.clubfreetime.com/vieweventdetails.asp?ID=55231 CONCURRENT SHOW IN LOS ANGELES! http://www.laweekly.com/index.php?option=com_lsd&task=default&id=88085&Itemid=108 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/358 - Release Date: 6/7/2006 Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:36:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <200606081720.NAA05998@webmail12.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "To find fault with a correspondence theory of truth is not to say that "everything is relative" -- and neither is even the most reductive = version of standpoint theory -- To argue that science proceeds by means of forms = of narrative is not at all to say that there is no way to reach judgments = about the workings of various narratives -- it is to say that "laws of = science" are just that; laws of science are human descriptions of natural = phenomena; theories of things such as gravity don't levitate in some eternal realm = of the ideal any more than we do -- " --James's hoary PRAGMATISM lays all this out clearly and persuasively "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." -- I should have thought bright orthography wouldn't NEED any breaking = in . . . best Tenney > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group=20 > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of ALDON L NIELSEN > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 10:20 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Postmodernism? >=20 >=20 > for years now Sokal has been going around inviting people who=20 > talk about the postmodern to step out of his office window to=20 > see if gravity is socially constructed -- this is, of course,=20 > an absolutley silly perversion of what people talking about=20 > science studies had been saying -- just as is the canard that=20 > poststructuralists say that "everything is relative" --=20 >=20 > and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and=20 > where is it said? >=20 > To find fault with a correspondence theory of truth is not to=20 > say that "everything is relative" -- and neither is even the=20 > most reductive version of standpoint theory -- To argue that=20 > science proceeds by means of forms of narrative is not at all=20 > to say that there is no way to reach judgments about the=20 > workings of various narratives -- it is to say that "laws of=20 > science" are just that; laws of science are human=20 > descriptions of natural phenomena; theories of things such as=20 > gravity don't levitate in some eternal realm of the ideal any=20 > more than we do --=20 >=20 > the first responders to the Sokal hoax did indeed come off=20 > badly, and should have taken a few minutes to think more=20 > carefully about just what the situation they were in was --=20 > but Sokal himself seems to have little appreciation of just=20 > what his hoax did and did not accomplish --=20 >=20 > For example -- if you read Sokal at length you will find him=20 > making much of the discussion Derrida got into during the Q &=20 > A at the famous Johns Hopkins conference about an=20 > "Einsteinian constant" -- Well, it turns out, despite what=20 > Sokal said, that there was such a thing as an "Einsteinian=20 > constant" and that scientists have recently returned for=20 > another look to the idea that Einstein himself had at one=20 > time abandoned -- now, I think it's pretty clear that it=20 > isn't the same idea Derrida and company were talking about,=20 > but the point is that Sokal was a bit too hasty in his=20 > denunciations -- as the people at Social Text were a bit too=20 > hasty in responding to him --=20 >=20 > and does anybody really believe that any critique of western=20 > reason iplies an adoption of irrationality? isn't that=20 > rather like saying that becaue Olson's postmodernism=20 > criticized western humanism he was opposed to humans? >=20 > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >=20 > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson >=20 > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >=20 > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 >=20 > (814) 865-0091 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 16:42:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain If you believe that our Senate's actions have anything to do with a love of the English language, you have not been attending to their speeches. If you think this isn't about politics, you haven't been looking at the calendar. If you think racism has nothing to do with any of this, you should really read more of the publications from the organizations that have been lobbying for this and funding the English as an Official Langauge movement. I absolutely love American English; even the one third or so of its vocabulary that derives from French. I have seen nothing written by anyone here to indicate that anybody is ashamed of having English as a first language. On the other hand, I find the English spoken by our president and by many of our political leaders to be deeply embarassing. I love the fact that we made somebody Poet Laureate of the United States who read all his poems in Russian. I'd like to see Juan Felipe Herrera chosen as Poet Laureate, but won't hold my breath. I'm with William Carlos Williams on these issues -- that's my kind of American idiom -- On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 09:44:06 +0000, Joel Weishaus wrote: > Hi Mark: > > Regressive means French, for example, which is, especially in Quebec, xenophobic. > I don't see why, as I get the feeling here, that poets whose first language is English are ashamed of it. Our rotten government having to take the lead in defending our language is embarrassing. A Poet Laureate of Moscow lives in my building. I can _feel_ the love he has for the words of his language.This isn't about politics, racism, or the like. It's about love. > > -Joel > > > > > What the hell does "regressive" mean when applied to language? > > > > > > Mark (feeling grumpy as usual) > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 09:28:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Pianoless Vexations June 11 NYC Comments: To: jeanmarcmontera@mac.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pianoless Vexations Sunday, June 11 2006 The Sculpture Center, Long Island City, NY 10:55am-7:00pm An eight-hour performance of Erik Satie's famous piano composition Vexations (1893), scored for any instrument except piano. PIANOLESS VEXATIONS SCHEDULE (as of 6/02/06 - subject to change) 10:55am-11:20am Randy Nordschow (laptop) 11:20am-11:40am Jay Sanders (guitar) 11:40am-12:00pm Bruce Pearson (laptop) 12:00pm-12:20pm Daphna Mor, Rachel Begley, and Nina Stern (recorders) 12:20pm-12:40pm Bruce Arnold Jazz Trio (jazz) 12:40pm-1:00pm Alan Licht and Angela Jaeger (guitar & voice) 1:00pm-1:20pm String Messengers (bluegrass) 1:20pm-1:40pm Rusty Santos (sampler) 1:40pm-2:00pm Amy Granat (violin) 2:00pm-2:20pm Greg Kelley (trumpet) 2:20pm-2:40pm Miguel Frasconi (glass & toy piano) 2:40pm-3:00pm Bethany Ryker (French horn) 3:00pm-3:20pm Eddie Davis and Erik Carlson (violin & guitar) 3:20pm-3:40pm Zachary Seldess (laptop) 3:40pm-4:00pm Charles Waters and Katie Pawluk (sax & viola) 4:00pm-4:20pm Andrew Lampert, steve dalachinsky (film) 4:20pm-4:40pm Margaret Leng Tan (toy piano) 4:40pm-5:00pm Trudy Chan (harpsichord) 5:00pm-5:20pm David Grubbs (guitar) 5:20pm-5:40pm Goddess & Andy Newman (voice, fiddles) 5:40pm-6:00pm Matthew Ostrowski (laptop) 6:00pm-6:20pm Kenta Nagai (shamisen) 6:20pm-6:40pm Stephin Merritt (marimaba) 6:40pm-7:00pm Rick Moody and Hannah Marcus (guitar & cello) Conceptualized by Kenneth Goldsmith Musical Directors & Curators: Alan Licht, Frank Oteri & Anthony Huberman For more info, contact: Heidi Ihrig SculptureCenter 718.361.1750 x115 hihrig@sculpture-center.org The Sculpture Center 44-19 Purves Street Long Island City, NY 11101 T: 718 361 1750 F: 718 786 9336 http://www.sculpture-center.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 15:53:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Warren Lloyd Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <44882F71.28450.10ED020@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Actually that statement says all narratives are different( The Yaruba : different than Eurocentric) not equal! Marcus Bales wrote: On 8 Jun 2006 at 13:20, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and where is > it said? Here is, I think, a good example: On 6 Jun 2006 at 19:17, Warren Lloyd wrote: "What is your rationality? Do you suppose the rationality of say, the Yaruba tribe in Africa whose social hierarchies depend upon patterns and depths of facial scaration, is the same as your seemingly Euro centric rationality?" If it's not an example of equating all narratives, on what other grounds than that all narratives are equal would such a senseless question be asked? hsnmng@comcast.net writes: What steve potter said early on >> It's probably more useful to talk about the way a particular work >> responds to the condition of postmodernity than whether a work is >> or is not itself postmodern.<< right on!< But the issue at hand in this discussion, starting with my exchange with Alison Croggon, has been whether there is indeed something we can identify as "the condition of postmodernity" at all. To ask about the way a particular work responds to the condition of postmodernity is to beg the question: it assumes that there is a condition of postmodernity to respond to, and that is the question: is there such a condition? > To find fault with a correspondence theory of truth is not to say > that "everything is relative" < But that's not what's happening here. The postmodernists are taking, for example, the name of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and claiming that that principle makes "everything relative", even though the HUP doesn't apply in human-scale conditions, and not Heisenberg nor any other mathematician or physicist has ever said it did. It is an inappropriate leap by folks who hear "Uncertainty Principle" and conclude that "Everything is relative". You might as well hear "Everything is relative" and claim that therefore all sex is incest. It's silliness. On 8 Jun 2006 at 13:20, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > and does anybody really believe that any critique of western reason > implies an adoption of irrationality? Not "any critique" -- but certainly in those that say "Who gives a damn if you know what you are saying!", or that claim the scarification of the Yoruba which denotes social hierarchies is the same kind of thing as the Euro-centric rationality in discussion about whether there has been a significant change in the human condition that justifies calling our time "postmodern" or not. We do not lack for examples of irrationality in the utterances of the advocates and defenders of postmodernism here. Marcus __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 19:20:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jay Dougherty Subject: PoetryCircle now accepting prose MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PoetryCircle, an online venue for contemporary and experimental poetry, is now accepting submissions of prose. Please see the following announcement for details: http://www.poetrycircle.com/index.php/topic,1188.0.html Submissions of prose can be made here after registering with the site (free): http://www.poetrycircle.com/index.php/board,26.0.html If you are interested in becoming a PoetryCircle editor of either poetry or prose, please sign up at the site and express your interest to one of the editors. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 19:57:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Debra Horowitz Subject: Delete from Mailing List In-Reply-To: <20060608225340.27595.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed From: Warren Lloyd Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Postmodernism? Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 15:53:40 -0700 Actually that statement says all narratives are different( The Yaruba : different than Eurocentric) not equal! Marcus Bales wrote: On 8 Jun 2006 at 13:20, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and where is > it said? Here is, I think, a good example: On 6 Jun 2006 at 19:17, Warren Lloyd wrote: "What is your rationality? Do you suppose the rationality of say, the Yaruba tribe in Africa whose social hierarchies depend upon patterns and depths of facial scaration, is the same as your seemingly Euro centric rationality?" If it's not an example of equating all narratives, on what other grounds than that all narratives are equal would such a senseless question be asked? hsnmng@comcast.net writes: What steve potter said early on >> It's probably more useful to talk about the way a particular work >> responds to the condition of postmodernity than whether a work is >> or is not itself postmodern.<< right on!< But the issue at hand in this discussion, starting with my exchange with Alison Croggon, has been whether there is indeed something we can identify as "the condition of postmodernity" at all. To ask about the way a particular work responds to the condition of postmodernity is to beg the question: it assumes that there is a condition of postmodernity to respond to, and that is the question: is there such a condition? > To find fault with a correspondence theory of truth is not to say > that "everything is relative" < But that's not what's happening here. The postmodernists are taking, for example, the name of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and claiming that that principle makes "everything relative", even though the HUP doesn't apply in human-scale conditions, and not Heisenberg nor any other mathematician or physicist has ever said it did. It is an inappropriate leap by folks who hear "Uncertainty Principle" and conclude that "Everything is relative". You might as well hear "Everything is relative" and claim that therefore all sex is incest. It's silliness. On 8 Jun 2006 at 13:20, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > and does anybody really believe that any critique of western reason > implies an adoption of irrationality? Not "any critique" -- but certainly in those that say "Who gives a damn if you know what you are saying!", or that claim the scarification of the Yoruba which denotes social hierarchies is the same kind of thing as the Euro-centric rationality in discussion about whether there has been a significant change in the human condition that justifies calling our time "postmodern" or not. We do not lack for examples of irrationality in the utterances of the advocates and defenders of postmodernism here. Marcus __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 20:55:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Crake Subject: Hairflip MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Diary, So last night I had a dream. I was walking across a bridge made out of film and on the other side there were trees made out of paper with pages of poetry hanging from the branches. Musical instruments were floating on the water, while a grand piano thundered from the sky and a guitar string snapped like lightning. Poets were walking around, and movie screens replaced each of their faces. This all happened in what seemed like a technological jungle and different medias blended to the point where one couldnt tell which form was which. Then I saw a billboard that read: HairFlip: A Multimedia Journal of Visual and Literary Arts is accepting submissions for the first issue due in the summer of 2006. For the first issue, we are leaving the theme entirely up to you and look forward to the indeterminate outcome. We are currently seeking various writing including poetry, prose, fiction/nonfiction essay, audiovisual works, paintings, photography, visual essay, sound/music and creative cross-genres. For the following medias please submit: 1. Poetry- 5-8 pgs. 2. Written/Visual Essay- 5-8 pgs. 3. Visual Art (painting, photography, sculpture, etc.) - 5-8 slides 4. Music/Sound- 2-8 min. 5. Short Films- 5-8 min. HairFlip is a Multimedia DvZine (all the work will appear on DVD) that uses audiovisual multimedia to explore cross-genre art and writing. Send all genres of work to HairFlippingIt@gmail.com. All work must be submitted via e-mail. We look forward to your submission. Sincerely, Feliz Molina, Sabrina Calle, Lillian Heehs --- Naropa University - an adventure in mind, body, and spirit. http://www.naropa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 18:07:50 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: steve carll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David and all--Steve Carll didn't disappear. He had a marvelous Tinfish chap, Hamburger, which is slipped into a hamburger sleeve, and he did a book published by subpress along with Bill Marsh. Those of us who move to Hawai`i only seem to disappear! aloha, Susan http://tinfishpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:25:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: steve carll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit send my best to steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" To: Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 9:07 PM Subject: steve carll > David and all--Steve Carll didn't disappear. He had a marvelous Tinfish > chap, Hamburger, which is slipped into a hamburger sleeve, and he did a > book published by subpress along with Bill Marsh. > Those of us who move to Hawai`i only seem to disappear! > > aloha, Susan > > http://tinfishpress.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 22:38:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: hippy In-Reply-To: <4488642D.3050507@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nice, nice post. AJ --- Kenneth Wolman wrote: > Marzahl, Kevin M wrote: > >> A postmodernist is anyone who someone in > authority thinks is having > >> more fun > >> than they are (paraphrasing Tuli Kupferberg's- or > was it Ed Sanders'?- > >> definition of a hippy). > > I, too, have been called a hippy. > > So I shaved my hair completely but then was > mistaken on and off for a > > skinhead. > > Later I took to bleaching my hair and people would > in all seriousness > > ask me, "Are you from California?" > > These days I let it go for five or six weeks > between trims and find > > that now others just project cartoon characters on > me, e.g., Shaggy > > stepping off the screen from some spooky mystery. > It's the most > > benign misrecognition yet so I more or less let it > go. > I shaved my head four years ago and played with my > resume. Blatant > lies. They didn't help. But I really looked like a > total putz with no > hair. As for The Fugs.... > > Ed & Tuli, Huh? > > How old am I, for Godsake? > Someone used to call me a beatnik. > A beatnik. Right. > Jack K., Allen G., Neal C., William B.: > it sounded like an Anonymous program. > If you shot up with Burroughs you could say > you were a Friend of Bill's. > I was old enough to see The Fugs > at some theater on 2nd Avenue in 1968. > They weren't as much fun as Zappa, > whose guys all humped stuffed toys on-stage. > But they talked real dirty and didn't think much > of the whole Peace and Love thing > from guys like the Beatles and Donovan. > Now I find that some guys my age never heard of them > I sang a friend "Dirty Old Man" a month ago, > word for word, and also "Doin' All Right" > and he was hysterical. > My biggest mistake was I didn't marry > the Slum Goddess. > She wasn't the kind you brought home to mother. > Given my mother, that would have been okay. > > Ken > > -------------------- > Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com > > "Don't be a baby, be a man. Sell out."--Lenny > Bruce > --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 23:39:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: HIMALAYA--SMURFLAND NEWS--Thursday EDITION Comments: To: Thomas Clouse , Stacey Duff , josh hinck , Irena Hingarova , John Joyce , Peter Klauza , Jonathan Litton , Bob Marcacci , Phillip Nessen , Stephen Nessen , Harry Nudel , Jake Schall , Bobby Tam , wapshotodd@yahoo.com, weepee319@aol.com In-Reply-To: <20060609053800.23523.qmail@web53904.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lots of things being done, as they say. I'm getting married in less than a month and this traveling is getting, well, downright tiresome. I found myself walking down this steep and rocky footpath, a route one needs to travel when returning 'home'--and this kind of walk might, but who knows, qualify for what I believe is now called, extreme sports, or idiocy--depending on one's alignment. I'd rather not comment other than to say I was scared. A friend has decribed me as timorous, a word not used often these days, I think, but something learned byway of archaic speech 101, the kind of thing Chinese education ass jams into the minds of education-ed and re-education-ed drones preparing to dine on democracy movements and foreign dollars in that climb towards a 'peaceful and harmonious society,' as chummy Hu likes to say often. And the Indian papers reported yesterday that Google.com has been nixed in most outlets. Google.cn, the bastardized version of the search engine, a nice wad for Google ups that Chinese sensors (and Reporters without Borders ranks China at around 48/49 countries for free speech, N. Korea is last) hang round the belt like colostomy bag filled remnants of human dignity--or, perhaps, a spike to be torn deep into the mind of those who might dare to whimper--or try to collect the most basic information contrary to official all-encompassing and universal gov't reports reported on state TV. Some of my colleagues and some expats might disagree, but then again, they occupy a very different caste in China's hiearachy--and, too, they are caucasian. To be frank, I could look like a lot of things: Turkish, Latino, Saphardic, from far west of China. But I'm glad these very same people honor me so, "because my pronunciation and intellect is up to the [white middle class] standard"--and, thankfully, I'm able to pass without recollection of "double-consciousness." But I digress, and this is all about hyporciry, which really busts my political hemroid, and how middle class liberalism has its limitations and enemies within. Besides, my spelling is terrible! Now, back to that story. So, I was hiking down and about midway through I happened up the biggest damn cows I'd ever seen, with horns, said the fisherman, as big as Hemingway's marlin, and I, naturally, took a start. Tried to navigate, can I say, around them to the left, which was along a stone incline, and to the right, which was a presipise, really, and it was dark, and I'd had a nip with this Kashmiri named Babba [and his story is IMPORTANT]. Now, just imagine, a footpath about 1m wide, rocks on left, long Wyle E. Coyote drop on right, night fall, feeling "light"--and what does one do? Well, I tried my best to not be gored and so managed to drop about 3m down to the right, off the side, to where the path continued round. This wasn't a climb down, nor a calculated effort to be sensitive to those bovines, but rather was a fall. Kept thinking as I dropped, "My face, it's gonna hurt, not my face. ANd then, damn I like this shirt." Cut ups hands, forearm, deep gash to my calf where I landed, bloody, no horns, lots of pain. Then the thinking: "What kind of bugs do I now need to worry about having contracted, with all this domesticated animal pat everywhere"--and then, "Whoa, the face is fine, the shirt, too!" aj --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:57:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <05e701c68b2e$24a11210$d82b8b56@andrew1d83eb60> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Warren Lloyd wrote: > Actually that statement says all narratives are different(The > Yaruba : different than Eurocentric) not equal!< Taking the protest about "narrative" here first, and addressing the protest about "rationality" next, different and equal are two separate notions; a claim that things are different is not a claim that they are not equal -- at least, not necessarily. I think in the context of Lloyd's presentation it was clear that he was trying to equate the two narratives. His tone and manner were emphatic that the one narrative was as good as the other. Robin Hamilton wrote: > Actually, Marcus, I think Warren Lloyd is making exactly the > opposite point > [with regard to rationality(ies)] -- Yaruba and European > rationalities are different.< If only -- but he wasn't comparing rationalities; he was comparing the physical symbols of social hierarchy (or perhaps the social hierarchy itself) on the one hand with a discussion about postmodernism on the other. If he's not equating the two narratives, the narrative of the social position created, according to Mr Lloyd, on one's willingness to scar one's face, with the narrative of a discussion of a literary term, then what _is_ he doing? > Also he doesn't say that either one is better than the other or > that they're equal, just that they're (which would, to make a bad > pun, on the face of it seem to be true) different.< Well, no one says that tribal scarification for social hierarchichal purposes, and a discussion about the definition of a literary term aren't different. The assertion Lloyd made was that the respective rationalities and narratives are equal, as I understand it, however different. What would be the point of an advocate of postmodernism asserting differences where there are clear differences, if not to try to make the claim of an underlying equality? One of the central claims of postmodernism is that despite cultural differences we're all human. Of course, that's nothing new -- and my point is just that: that postmodern attempts to say that in spite of our differences we're all human is point-blank evidence there has been no postmodern paradigm shift. The notion that we're all human despite our differences is simply not a new notion -- it's been around for aeons. > I have come across, or heard of, lunacies which would equate bus > tickets > with Shakespeare's First Folio, but that's not postmodernism, it's > simply an > occasional absurdity that kicks around academe.< Well, perhaps "postmodernism" is such an absurdity. > Postmodern, on the other hand (if I haven't managed to somehow > switch the terms) is the latest grinding howl that emerged from the > various misinterpretations successively laid on poor de Saussure's > +Course in General Linguistics+ -- structuralist, post- > structuralist, finally postmodern.< Yes, it appears that Alison Croggon and I were talking about this kind of meaning of postmodern; she was arguing that there has been a significant change in human nature that has resulted in postmodernism and postmodern art -- and I was, and am, arguing that there has not been. In all the history of humanity there have always been new weapons that were going to destroy life as we know it, and sometimes they have. But, therefore, the notion that this new weapon is going to destroy life as we know it is simply not the turning point Alison Croggon and other defenders and advocates of "postmodernism" would have it be. It's tediously common, and it's all happened before. There is nothing new here, and certainly nothing that would justify a reversion to the irrational. And what would that reversion to the irrational entail, anyway, come to think of it? What exactly are the postmoderns suggesting ought to happen as a result of their falsely-perceived "turn"? To revert to irrationality, to archaism, to primordial feelings, is to increase the risk that some damned fool who accepted that it would be thrillingly in fashion and postmodern to embrace his or her irrational pirmordialism will say "Oh, to hell with it" and push the button. I simply don't understand the rush to embrace the very sorts of things that have historically produced the longest and most brutal kinds of conflicts: the zealotry and religiosity of the embrace of the archaic, the primordial, the irrational, that postmodernism preaches we ought to embrace. The embrace of the primordial, the archaic, the irrational have all historically resulted in the worst wars and atrocities. The notion that, once we have a really REALLY poserful new weapon that we should therefore embrace the primordial and the irrational seems ludicrously inappropriate The postmodern urge to embrace the primordial, the irrational, seems more like a deliberate embarkation on a policy of suicide. I don't see why a celebration of differences has to entail, for postmodernists, an embracing of the primordial or the irrational. In fact, it seems that a celebration of differences is what must be done as the rational, reasonable thing to do, precisely so that we do not destroy ourselves withn the mutually exclusive zealotry that human beings have so often embraced before with the primordial and the irrational. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 08:19:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: hippy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/8/06 12:54:37 PM Central Daylight Time, rainermaria@COMCAST.NET writes: > I shaved my head four years ago and played with my resume. Blatant > lies. They didn't help. But I really looked like a total putz with no > hair. As for The Fugs.... > I shaved my head five years ago -- in 2001 before 9/11 -- due to men's sudden insistence on having a baby with me, men I had never met or drunk men I had long known. I had not been advertising to have a baby. One of the drunk men, now living the existence of a poet, called from San Francisco to say he would take the plane to Minneapolis, do it, then leave me to raise the baby. He was driving taxi, something his ex-wife, another of my friends, had not liked in him. Another drunk one, a novelist (calling from MO.) wanted to spread his superior genes with their single flaw or two to as many states as he could get to. He assumed my mother would pay for everything. "Everything" means private schools. Well, she hadn't even paid for private schools with me, so I'm really unemployed. He was working. Then a wealthy drunk poet (calling from NY) called in for quintuplet boys to go with his three boys already. "Girls then," I said. "No," he said. Perhaps if I had suddenly mated, just then, as a bald woman, with a man with a shaved head, everything would have turned out okay. I had been very attracted to bald men -- even been engaged to one for years -- but he and I didn't have a baby. He had a baby with a woman he had never met before, while he was at a music festival. The baby was then adopted by rich, white people, a fact that caused me to grow highly suspicious of the economics of having babies, something I had not been in the past. It was a Jamaican man, a steel drum player, as it turned out, who got the thing started with me, when he rushed up to me at a bar, where I had stopped in for exactly one drink (what I could afford), and said, "Have my baby." We went on two dates total with my hair still long. (I must not have wanted a baby so soon: at 39.) On one of the dates, I had slathered myself with muscle rub that had a menthol smell to it, so I smelled really awful and almost could not eat. The wisdom I got from this man: "Never let anyone tell you you can't have a baby until you're 52." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 22:34:26 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <448929D0.29050.4E0D5D7@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Yes, it appears that Alison Croggon and I were talking about this kind of meaning of postmodern; she was arguing that there has been a significant change in human nature that has resulted in postmodernism and postmodern art -- and I was, and am, arguing that there has not been. In all the history of humanity there have always been new weapons that were going to destroy life as we know it, and sometimes they have. But, therefore, the notion that this new weapon is going to destroy life as we know it is simply not the turning point Alison Croggon and other defenders and advocates of "postmodernism" would have it be. It's tediously common, and it's all happened before. There is nothing new here, and certainly nothing that would justify a reversion to the irrational. And what would that reversion to the irrational entail, anyway, come to think of it? What exactly are the postmoderns suggesting ought to happen as a result of their falsely-perceived "turn"? To revert to irrationality, to archaism, to primordial feelings, is to increase the risk that some damned fool who accepted that it would be thrillingly in fashion and postmodern to embrace his or her irrational pirmordialism will say "Oh, to hell with it" and push the button. I feel egregiously misquoted here: nowhere did I say that "human nature", whatever that is, has changed. I _did_ argue that there has been a significant shift of cultural perspective in the past 50 years, especially in western culture, in large part because we are capable of - and are - destroying our global environment, and not only that, we are aware that we can do this. We have more culture and more historical knowledge available to us than at any time in history. There are more of us than ever before. &c. There is nothing prescriptive about this, only attempts to describe: I find it personally a fascinating, if frightening, time to be alive. I think Robert Musil was especially prescient about all this, and he has much to say that's interesting about this false binary between "rational" and "irrational", which are very reductive ways of thinking about thinking. He suggests there are other ways of describing and experiencing thought. Fwiw, it seems to me that the most seriously irrational people are those who claim the most bullish rationality, those of neo-con or fundamentalist persuasions, mirrors of each other's nationalistic aggressions, claiming nationalistic or religious particularities as universals. That seems to me a direct act of revulsion against the complexities of modernity and what might be called a postmodern phenomenon. But I'm not arguing. I just don't like being misrepresented. A -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:55:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Heretical Texts Vol. 2.3: Kristin Prevallet Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed New from Heretical Texts: SHADOW EVIDENCE INTELLIGENCE by Kristin Prevallet Factory School. 2006. 80 pages, perfect bound, 6.5x9. $12 / $10 direct order "Prevallet's third (and boldest) book of poems, SHADOW EVIDENCE INTELLIGENCE, is a fierce and direct confrontation of political insanity and poetic form. Drawing inspiration from the news, these poems seek to create epiphany out of the fallacious, tormented, and violent logic that is currently being used to justify war, injustice, and torture. These poems bring together multiple frames of reference that logically cannot add up to a single thought; they restore to poetry the bold experimentation of form and content necessary to imagine a saner world." --Sandy Schmitz SHADOW EVIDENCE INTELLIGENCE is the third book in the second volume of Heretical Texts, an ongoing series brought to you by Factory School. Available titles include: Volume One: 1. Dan Featherston, United States 2. Laura Elrick, Fantasies in Permeable Structures 3. Linh Dinh, Borderless Bodies 4. Sarah Menefee, Human Star 5. kari edwards, obedience Volume Two: 1. Diane Ward, Flim-Yoked Scrim 2. Steve Carll, Tracheal Centrifuge 3. Kristin Prevallet, Shadow Evidence Intelligence 4. Brian Kim Stefans, What is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers 5. Carol Mirakove, Mediated Volume 3 (winter 2006) will feature work by Ammiel Alcalay, Catherine Daly, Nick Piombino, Heriberto Yepez, and Meg Hammill. Order direct from Factory School: http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/order.html Also available through Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org/ About Heretical Texts: This series aims to investigate and challenges the assumption that poetry, as art and communication activity, is political. Central to the Heretical Texts mission is a focused imagining of 'political poetry' as a form of public intervention, invention, and invocation that calls on language to call out a public, a people. For more about the Heretical Texts series: http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/index.html For more about this and other Factory School projects: http://www.factoryschool.org Contact: info "at" factoryschool.org [or reply backchannel to this email] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 10:03:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: susan maurer reading at 6th and b Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed on 6-l8 from 2-4 mindy lebokove is having a reading in the park at 6th and b in nyc and iw ill have my 10 minutes of said time. susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:12:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Jun 2006 at 22:34, Alison Croggon wrote: > I feel egregiously misquoted here: nowhere did I say that "human > nature", whatever that is, has changed. I _did_ argue that there has been a > significant shift of cultural perspective in the past 50 years, especially in western culture, in large part > because we are capable of - and are - destroying our global environment, and not only that, we > are aware that we can do this. We have more culture and more historical knowledge > available to us than at any time in history.< I'm sorry you feel misquoted; certainly I'm not intending to misquote you. This is the first appearance of the adjective "cultural" in your claim, however. Before you were talking about the whole human race; now you're talking about just a few people in just one culture. The problem for postmodernism lies, however, in the problem that if all cultures ought to be given equal weight in a multicultural view, and all the various views within each culture, as well, then there is nothing in the narrative about the atomic bomb by a few people in just one culture to privilege it over the narrative of social hierarchy by facial scarring among the Yoruba, or any other group that does not share the postmodern view. Postmodernists are obliged, by the terms of their own claim, to give the same weight to the any view (for instance, that they're wrong simply because they have nothing like enough facial scars to make their opinion important) that they give to their own. Yet at the same time, postmodernists seem to feel pretty argumentative about their view being right! If that's postmodernism, it looks more like an intellectual shuffle than a compelling world view. > I think Robert Musil was especially prescient about all this, and > he has much to say that's interesting about this false binary > between "rational" and "irrational", which are very reductive ways > of thinking about thinking.< It's not a "false binary" -- it is rather a binary of wide but not universal applicability. The question isn't whether we should be rational or irrational, as so many postmodernists seem to think, but how we can be rational appropriately. Furthermore, just by saying something is a "false binary" you necessarily create a binary: the "real binaries" and the "false binaries". How do you tell a real from a false binary? > ... it seems to me that the most seriously irrational > people are those who claim the most bullish rationality, those of > neo-con or fundamentalist persuasions, mirrors of each other's > nationalistic aggressions, claiming nationalistic or religious > particularities as universals.< I can agree that rationality can be misapplied, and one of the prominent ways to do it is to do as you've suggested, claim nationalistic or religious particularities as universals. Starting from that agreement, though, is it possible that you can also agree that rationality is not _prima facie_ a bad thing? That there is appropriate rationality, inappropriate rationality, appropriate irrationality, and inappropriate irrationality? > That seems to me a direct act of > revulsion against the complexities of modernity and what might be > called a postmodern phenomenon. This, again, begs the question since it assumes the "postmodern phenomenon" that it wants to conclude exists. The question remains whether there is such a "postmodern phenomenon" or not. You must define "postmodern" adequately, and use it consistently, or you have to face the charge of being inappropriately irrational, and you can't really claim to be saying anything of significance or importance in a rational discussion. Unless, of course, it is your view that discussions should be irrational. In which case, let the flyting begin, eh? Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 04:28:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Frequent Meeting Comments: To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA Comments: cc: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit saw august's show at poet's house wow ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 01:59:21 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <44895798.16842.593AABA@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline If I am talking about Beckett or Genet, which in part I was, most intelligent people would assume that I was speaking about something called "culture". Do I have to point out that I'm talking about poetry if I mention Yeats or Howe? I most certainly wouldn't be talking about anything so dubious as a universal "human nature". It is late and I am tired and I should not let myself be annoyed. I suggest you go and read Musil for some elegant and subtle ratiocinations that are rather more interesting than your limited conceptions of the rational and irrational. Cheers A On 6/10/06, Marcus Bales wrote: > > > I'm sorry you feel misquoted; certainly I'm not intending to misquote > you. This is the first appearance of the adjective "cultural" in your > claim, however. Before you were talking about the whole human race; > now you're talking about just a few people in just one culture. > > > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:32:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: LA: Reading: MONDAY June 12, @ COFFEE FIX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Orlando Nolledo Ara Shirinyan Will be reading new writing at the coffee fix in Studio City, this Monday, June 12th. Reading should begin at 7:00, with discussion a little before and after. This is the second reading in the Middle Monday of the Month series. Coffee Fix is located at 12508 Moorpark St, Studio City, CA 91604 (818) 762-0181 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:48:16 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <200606081720.NAA05998@webmail12.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "all narratives are equal" was my misinterpretation of this article: http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=45 and probably some other things I've picked up along the way. I could well have screwed the terms up. I am not a qualified practitioner of these black arts and it appears that I will stay that unless I learn to substitute "epistomology" for "narrative". Apologies all round. For a postmodernist, however, this modernist faith in science is only a sign of Eurocentrism and cultural imperialism. For a postmodernist, other cultures are under no rational obligation to revise their cosmologies, or adopt new procedures for ascertaining facts to bring them in accord with modern science. Far from producing a uniquely objective and universally valid account of nature, the "facts" of modern science are only one among many other ways of constructing other "facts" about nature, which are equally valid for other cultures. Nature-in-itself cannot be known without imposing classifications and meaning on it which are derived from cultural metaphors and models. All ways of seeing nature are at par because all are equally culture-bound. Modern science has no special claims to truth and to our convictions, for it is as much of a cultural construct of the West as other sciences are of their own cultures. This view of science is derived from a variety of American and European philosophies of science, associated mostly with such well-known philosophers as Thomas Kuhn, Paul Feyerabend, W.O Quine, Ludwig Wittgenstein and Michel Foucault. This view of science has been gaining popularity among Indian scholars of science since the infamous "scientific temper" debates in early 1980s when Ashis Nandy, Vandana Shiva and their sympathisers came out in defence of local knowledges and traditions, including astrology, goddess worship as cure for small-pox, taboos against menstruation and (later on) even sati. Over the next two decades, it became a general practice in Indian scholarly writing to treat modern science as just one way to adjudicate belief, no different from any other tradition of sorting out truth from mere group belief. Rationalism became a dirty word and Enlightenment became a stand-in for "epistemic violence" of colonialism. It seems to me that western science *has* some claims to the "truth", or at least, a working set of truth, which includes the truth of blowing up the world. Neither do I believe that to criticize western rationality makes one irrational. However, throwing around the keys to such a gee-whiz bang box'o tricks doesn't seem to be a particularly bright idea. Roger On 08/06/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > for years now Sokal has been going around inviting people who talk about the > postmodern to step out of his office window to see if gravity is socially > constructed -- this is, of course, an absolutley silly perversion of what > people talking about science studies had been saying -- just as is the canard > that poststructuralists say that "everything is relative" -- > > and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and where is it said? > > To find fault with a correspondence theory of truth is not to say that > "everything is relative" -- and neither is even the most reductive version of > standpoint theory -- To argue that science proceeds by means of forms of > narrative is not at all to say that there is no way to reach judgments about > the workings of various narratives -- it is to say that "laws of science" are > just that; laws of science are human descriptions of natural phenomena; > theories of things such as gravity don't levitate in some eternal realm of the > ideal any more than we do -- > > the first responders to the Sokal hoax did indeed come off badly, and should > have taken a few minutes to think more carefully about just what the situation > they were in was -- but Sokal himself seems to have little appreciation of just > what his hoax did and did not accomplish -- > > For example -- if you read Sokal at length you will find him making much of the > discussion Derrida got into during the Q & A at the famous Johns Hopkins > conference about an "Einsteinian constant" -- Well, it turns out, despite what > Sokal said, that there was such a thing as an "Einsteinian constant" and that > scientists have recently returned for another look to the idea that Einstein > himself had at one time abandoned -- now, I think it's pretty clear that it > isn't the same idea Derrida and company were talking about, but the point is > that Sokal was a bit too hasty in his denunciations -- as the people at Social > Text were a bit too hasty in responding to him -- > > and does anybody really believe that any critique of western reason iplies an > adoption of irrationality? isn't that rather like saying that becaue Olson's > postmodernism criticized western humanism he was opposed to humans? > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "My other car is Eliot's Wasteland" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:35:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Ron Spurga's poetry slam (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm organizing a poetry slam on Sunday, November 5th at the Bowery Poetry Club in Manhattan (308 Bowery) from 6-9PM-just before Election Day honoring June Jordan and the poet Ai, and I wonder if you could get the word out? anyone who wants to read should call me at 212-649-5131. thanks, Ron Spurga ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 14:47:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain but what I really don't get is why you turn to a quotation from somebody who clearly despises postmodernism for definitions of postmodern? Do you really believe that an article claiming that the "postmodernist left" has paved the way for religious fascisim is an ubiased source? On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:48:16 +0100, Roger Day wrote: > "all narratives are equal" was my misinterpretation of this article: > > http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=45 > > and probably some other things I've picked up along the way. I could > well have screwed the terms up. I am not a qualified practitioner of > these black arts and it appears that I will stay that unless I learn > to substitute "epistomology" for "narrative". Apologies all round. > > > For a postmodernist, however, this modernist faith in science is only > a sign of Eurocentrism and cultural imperialism. For a postmodernist, > other cultures are under no rational obligation to revise their > cosmologies, or adopt new procedures for ascertaining facts to bring > them in accord with modern science. Far from producing a uniquely > objective and universally valid account of nature, the "facts" of > modern science are only one among many other ways of constructing > other "facts" about nature, which are equally valid for other > cultures. Nature-in-itself cannot be known without imposing > classifications and meaning on it which are derived from cultural > metaphors and models. All ways of seeing nature are at par because all > are equally culture-bound. Modern science has no special claims to > truth and to our convictions, for it is as much of a cultural > construct of the West as other sciences are of their own cultures. > > This view of science is derived from a variety of American and > European philosophies of science, associated mostly with such > well-known philosophers as Thomas Kuhn, Paul Feyerabend, W.O Quine, > Ludwig Wittgenstein and Michel Foucault. This view of science has been > gaining popularity among Indian scholars of science since the infamous > "scientific temper" debates in early 1980s when Ashis Nandy, Vandana > Shiva and their sympathisers came out in defence of local knowledges > and traditions, including astrology, goddess worship as cure for > small-pox, taboos against menstruation and (later on) even sati. Over > the next two decades, it became a general practice in Indian scholarly > writing to treat modern science as just one way to adjudicate belief, > no different from any other tradition of sorting out truth from mere > group belief. Rationalism became a dirty word and Enlightenment became > a stand-in for "epistemic violence" of colonialism. > > > It seems to me that western science *has* some claims to the "truth", > or at least, a working set of truth, which includes the truth of > blowing up the world. > > Neither do I believe that to criticize western rationality makes one > irrational. However, throwing around the keys to such a gee-whiz bang > box'o tricks doesn't seem to be a particularly bright idea. > > Roger > > On 08/06/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > for years now Sokal has been going around inviting people who talk about the > > postmodern to step out of his office window to see if gravity is socially > > constructed -- this is, of course, an absolutley silly perversion of what > > people talking about science studies had been saying -- just as is the canard > > that poststructuralists say that "everything is relative" -- > > > > and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and where is it said? > > > > To find fault with a correspondence theory of truth is not to say that > > "everything is relative" -- and neither is even the most reductive version of > > standpoint theory -- To argue that science proceeds by means of forms of > > narrative is not at all to say that there is no way to reach judgments about > > the workings of various narratives -- it is to say that "laws of science" are > > just that; laws of science are human descriptions of natural phenomena; > > theories of things such as gravity don't levitate in some eternal realm of the > > ideal any more than we do -- > > > > the first responders to the Sokal hoax did indeed come off badly, and should > > have taken a few minutes to think more carefully about just what the situation > > they were in was -- but Sokal himself seems to have little appreciation of just > > what his hoax did and did not accomplish -- > > > > For example -- if you read Sokal at length you will find him making much of the > > discussion Derrida got into during the Q & A at the famous Johns Hopkins > > conference about an "Einsteinian constant" -- Well, it turns out, despite what > > Sokal said, that there was such a thing as an "Einsteinian constant" and that > > scientists have recently returned for another look to the idea that Einstein > > himself had at one time abandoned -- now, I think it's pretty clear that it > > isn't the same idea Derrida and company were talking about, but the point is > > that Sokal was a bit too hasty in his denunciations -- as the people at Social > > Text were a bit too hasty in responding to him -- > > > > and does anybody really believe that any critique of western reason iplies an > > adoption of irrationality? isn't that rather like saying that becaue Olson's > > postmodernism criticized western humanism he was opposed to humans? > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > "My other car is Eliot's Wasteland" > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 16:06:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Subject: Richard Hugo House Seeks Writer-in-Residence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Location: Seattle, WA Richard Hugo House is seeking an accomplished author/teacher to become the next writer-in-residence associated with the nonprofit literary arts center on Capitol Hill. The writer will be based at Richard Hugo House and will complement the other writer-in-residence, David Wagoner. Applicants for the position should be practicing, published (or produced) writers of poetry, fiction, plays or creative nonfiction as well as accomplished and dedicated writing teachers with significant experience and pedagogical knowledge of various teaching philosophies and methods. Applicants should have a special interest in the role of literary arts in civic life, and imaginative programming ideas. Duration: September 2006 through June, 2007. It is renewable, with a two-term limit. Teaching: The writer-in-residence will teach two classes in our Inquiry Through Writing Program over the course of one year (one class per week during two six-week quarters per year). The writer will receive separate compensation for teaching. Consultation: Keep an average of five office hours per week to consult with Hugo House community members on their writing projects. We encourage the writer-in-residence to substitute some of these office hours with community outreach hours (teaching or giving readings in various community centers, hospitals, etc.). The Perks: $750 per month stipend for nine months, plus additional compensation for Inquiry Through Writing Program classes. A vibrant and growing community of, by, and for writers. An opportunity to work with a committed staff in a creative work environment. Representation: Be an ambassador of Hugo House and an advocate for the literary arts in the community. Your Application: Write a description of your potential residency that includes details about the class(es) you would like to teach, your teaching philosophy, and your views about the role of writing in our culture (please limit to 500 words). Send application by July 5 to: Alix Wilber, Program Director Richard Hugo House 1634 11th Ave. Seattle, WA 98122 (or email to mailto:welcome@hugohouse.org) No phone or e-mail queries please. For more information, visit www.hugohouse.org/about/jobs.html. Visit www.hugohouse.org to learn more about Hugo House and read about past programs produced by writers-in-residence. __________________________________________ source: http://seattle.craigslist.org/wri/169645615.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:21:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Loud crags really worry themselves past Monday: Xanax Pop by Lewis LaCook Comments: To: netbehaviour , Leiws LaCook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Troubled, as if burned where the nerves trellis out into thought: and running murders in the oxygen In generations the nurture had rummaged among loud crags and garbled PIN numbers and still not found the relation to get themselves past Monday. Accelerant is used around the base of where my helix sings yours out of its mouth in a puddled olive stream. I'm on fire with you, really I am: always worry what you'll think of me signed and sung, sometimes heartless, like a glass hole. Annulled, as in burying in, as if worrying under http://xanaxpop.lewislacook.org/ *************************************************************************** ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... || http://www.corporatepa.com || Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting Corporate Performance Artists __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 10:41:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Ron Spurga's poetry slam (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit send me ron's email thanks dala ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 21:48:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Finnegan Subject: sorry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know what I did there but I forwarded a lot extra material...sorry Finnnega ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 21:59:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: george thompson Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 7 Jun 2006 to 8 Jun 2006 (#2006-160) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lieber Marcus, It is good that you have read a little McEvilley. But, please, don't stop there. Keep on reading. In fact, read this [from the opening chapter of *Sculpture in the Age of Doubt* [1999: Allworth Press]: Preface: "The present historical period is one that attempts to present itself as somehow without boundaries and directions, yet nevertheless possessed of a strong character. This is not really unusual; it is characteristic of periods that might be called ages of doubt, including periods embracing a number of great philosophical traditions. Still, to those who become accustomed to the purposive and ideological age that seems to have recently ended -- and that is commonly called "Modernism" -- the condition of uncertainty feels bizarre." The Barbarous Noise Modernism was what might be called an age of certainty, feeling itself to be founded on universal truths and to grasp clearly the direction in which they tended. In contrast, the new age, with its conspicuous lack of universals and directions, strikes many beholders as confusing and undefined; so accustomed are they to boundaries and markers that without such indicators, they feel there is no frame for meaning. For them, the new age dawns with a sense of betrayal. Their attitude is exemplified by Bertrand Russell's remark in *The Will to Doubt* that an outlook which does not recognize the objective existence of an "ideal rationaity" is "very dangerous, and in the long run, fatal to civilization. The most widely used name for this era is "post-Modernism" -- an odd name because it does not seem to refer to what the period is but what it comes *after*. Even the experts writing about it are apt to say that they don't know what it means. Surprisingly, it is often the advocates, rather than the critics, of post-Modernism who claim they are helpless to undertand it. They must espouse it, then. from a surfeit of the last age -- a willingness to accept almost anything in preference to it. This is because the last -- the Modernist -- age is widely perceived today as having been a raw power trip that proceeded not only by deceiving others but by self-deception. Those who advanced the various Modernist endeavors were really speaking of "contigency while believing themselves to narrate necessity, of particular locality while believing themselves to narrate necessity, of particular locality while believing themselves to narrate univerality...." Their obsession with universality, certainty, and the absolute thinly disguised a manic desire to control: "The target of certainty and of absolute truth was indistinguishable from the crusading spirit and the project of domination." Well, I don't have the time or interest to type out the footnotes here. But, Marcus, I have taken the trouble to type this entry in so that you can examine it and respond to it. If you continue to insist that McEvilley is not a post modernist, well, I think that there will be other things that I can spend my time on, and you can keep on doing what you have been doing on this list. I won't bother you any more. But if you are willing to recognize that McEvilley is in fact a culture critic with greatest sympathy for this vague thing that we call post modernism, then perhaps we can continue to converse. I think that McEvilley is a lot less like you than you think He is as post modern as Charles Olson was, as was suggested earlier. Best, George >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also sprach Marcus Bales: I've read McEvilley, and listened to him read on the web, too. He's not a postmodernist -- he's a progressive liberal, much like me. His view is not that the human condition has changed with the advent of the atom bomb; his view is not that the human world view has changed with the advent of some change in the human condition. He's using the same old tools of rationality and the great liberal ideas that have stimulated so much that's good in the world now. If you call McEvilley a "postmodern" you might as well call John Stuart Mill one, too -- and perhaps you do. "Post-Modernism is a deeply revised attitude toward history that attempts to separate it form the concept of providence, denies any claims of inevitability, and aims at a multi-cultural solution to the problem of history, rather than an imperialistic one. " -- McEvilley Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 02:08:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: CipherBlog Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear BuffPo: I hereby officially announce CipherBlog (http://cipherjournal.blogspot.com/), with content so far including posts on writing, poetry & academia, and ill-advised considerations of postmodernism and a certain prominent figure in the BuffPo discussion of same. Future topics likely to include translation, labor, literature, academic culture, and the intersections thereof. Man, I'm nervous just writing about it. Lucas ________________________________________ "There are two ways of knowing, under standing and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The second is called winning arguments." -Kenneth Rexroth Lucas Klein LKlein@cipherjournal.com 216 Willow Street New Haven, CT 06511 ph: 203 676 0629 www.CipherJournal.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 02:11:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: URGENT INQUIRY--Re: Pinstripe Fedora: Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <20060519082806.dwl7tmtwgk80c0os@www.naropa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Michael, Has the deadline passed for Fedora #3. At present, I've been bogged down with work in Himalaya (if you can believe it)--monsoons, sickness, ick and tat. I'd like to submit some work. Your time will be sincerely appreciated. Regards, Alex Jorgensen --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 02:15:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: URGENT INQUIRY--Re: Pinstripe Fedora: Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <20060610091126.30186.qmail@web53910.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit An apology to the list. While I should be aware enough to manage this thing, reading the 'To:'--I seem to again and again mess it all up. I hope Michael that my last inquiry made its way to you. AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:32:08 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <200606091847.OAA22578@webmail3.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Fair comment - to a certain extent. I never claimed that article as defining pomo. Neither do I claim that pomo paves the way to a theocracy: I said it "helped" pave the way. I think science studies has muddied the waters to a considerable degree, and allowed creationism as an epistomology a foot-hold where it should have none. However, sweeping aside criticism as "biased" seems to me to be the wrong way to counter that criticism (it's almost the "Cartman defence"). If that article has no validity, then I'm happy to hear the reasons why. More grist to the mill: http://www2.truman.edu/~edis/writings/articles/relativism.html Roger On 09/06/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > but what I really don't get is why you turn to a quotation from somebody who > clearly despises postmodernism for definitions of postmodern? Do you really > believe that an article claiming that the "postmodernist left" has paved the > way for religious fascisim is an ubiased source? > > On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:48:16 +0100, Roger Day wrote: > > > "all narratives are equal" was my misinterpretation of this article: > > > > http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=45 > > > > and probably some other things I've picked up along the way. I could > > well have screwed the terms up. I am not a qualified practitioner of > > these black arts and it appears that I will stay that unless I learn > > to substitute "epistomology" for "narrative". Apologies all round. > > > > > > For a postmodernist, however, this modernist faith in science is only > > a sign of Eurocentrism and cultural imperialism. For a postmodernist, > > other cultures are under no rational obligation to revise their > > cosmologies, or adopt new procedures for ascertaining facts to bring > > them in accord with modern science. Far from producing a uniquely > > objective and universally valid account of nature, the "facts" of > > modern science are only one among many other ways of constructing > > other "facts" about nature, which are equally valid for other > > cultures. Nature-in-itself cannot be known without imposing > > classifications and meaning on it which are derived from cultural > > metaphors and models. All ways of seeing nature are at par because all > > are equally culture-bound. Modern science has no special claims to > > truth and to our convictions, for it is as much of a cultural > > construct of the West as other sciences are of their own cultures. > > > > This view of science is derived from a variety of American and > > European philosophies of science, associated mostly with such > > well-known philosophers as Thomas Kuhn, Paul Feyerabend, W.O Quine, > > Ludwig Wittgenstein and Michel Foucault. This view of science has been > > gaining popularity among Indian scholars of science since the infamous > > "scientific temper" debates in early 1980s when Ashis Nandy, Vandana > > Shiva and their sympathisers came out in defence of local knowledges > > and traditions, including astrology, goddess worship as cure for > > small-pox, taboos against menstruation and (later on) even sati. Over > > the next two decades, it became a general practice in Indian scholarly > > writing to treat modern science as just one way to adjudicate belief, > > no different from any other tradition of sorting out truth from mere > > group belief. Rationalism became a dirty word and Enlightenment became > > a stand-in for "epistemic violence" of colonialism. > > > > > > It seems to me that western science *has* some claims to the "truth", > > or at least, a working set of truth, which includes the truth of > > blowing up the world. > > > > Neither do I believe that to criticize western rationality makes one > > irrational. However, throwing around the keys to such a gee-whiz bang > > box'o tricks doesn't seem to be a particularly bright idea. > > > > Roger > > > > On 08/06/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > for years now Sokal has been going around inviting people who talk about the > > > postmodern to step out of his office window to see if gravity is socially > > > constructed -- this is, of course, an absolutley silly perversion of what > > > people talking about science studies had been saying -- just as is the > canard > > > that poststructuralists say that "everything is relative" -- > > > > > > and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and where is it > said? > > > > > > To find fault with a correspondence theory of truth is not to say that > > > "everything is relative" -- and neither is even the most reductive version > of > > > standpoint theory -- To argue that science proceeds by means of forms of > > > narrative is not at all to say that there is no way to reach judgments about > > > the workings of various narratives -- it is to say that "laws of science" > are > > > just that; laws of science are human descriptions of natural phenomena; > > > theories of things such as gravity don't levitate in some eternal realm of > the > > > ideal any more than we do -- > > > > > > the first responders to the Sokal hoax did indeed come off badly, and should > > > have taken a few minutes to think more carefully about just what the > situation > > > they were in was -- but Sokal himself seems to have little appreciation of > just > > > what his hoax did and did not accomplish -- > > > > > > For example -- if you read Sokal at length you will find him making much of > the > > > discussion Derrida got into during the Q & A at the famous Johns Hopkins > > > conference about an "Einsteinian constant" -- Well, it turns out, despite > what > > > Sokal said, that there was such a thing as an "Einsteinian constant" and > that > > > scientists have recently returned for another look to the idea that Einstein > > > himself had at one time abandoned -- now, I think it's pretty clear that it > > > isn't the same idea Derrida and company were talking about, but the point is > > > that Sokal was a bit too hasty in his denunciations -- as the people at > Social > > > Text were a bit too hasty in responding to him -- > > > > > > and does anybody really believe that any critique of western reason iplies > an > > > adoption of irrationality? isn't that rather like saying that becaue > Olson's > > > postmodernism criticized western humanism he was opposed to humans? > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > > The Pennsylvania State University > > > 116 Burrowes > > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://www.badstep.net/ > > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > > "My other car is Eliot's Wasteland" > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "My other car is Eliot's Wasteland" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:42:37 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could we stir Sokal and Bricomart's +Intellectual Impostures+ into this mix? They link (alternative chapters) an attack on postmodernism with an analysis of scientific epistemology, the whole thing written from an +activist+ American Left stance (to a large degree explaining the ferocity of Sokal's critique -- his big hero, as he makes plain, is Noam Chomsky). Interesting that the only major figure to emerge unscathed is Foucault. (I think there may also be a hint of the Institute of General Sematics in the background, but I wouldn't go to the stake for this.) Roger, have you read it? What do you think of it? Robin Roger Day says: > Fair comment - to a certain extent. I never claimed that article as > defining pomo. Neither do I claim that pomo paves the way to a > theocracy: I said it "helped" pave the way. I think science studies > has muddied the waters to a considerable degree, and allowed > creationism as an epistomology a foot-hold where it should have none. > However, sweeping aside criticism as "biased" seems to me to be the > wrong way to counter that criticism (it's almost the "Cartman > defence"). If that article has no validity, then I'm happy to hear the > reasons why. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:40:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: CipherBlog Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lucas, I couldn't get to your blog's website. Congratulations! Murat In a message dated 6/10/2006 2:08:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Lucas Klein writes: >Dear BuffPo: > > > >I hereby officially announce CipherBlog >(http://cipherjournal.blogspot.com/), with content so far including posts on >writing, poetry & academia, and ill-advised considerations of postmodernism >and a certain prominent figure in the BuffPo discussion of same. > > > >Future topics likely to include translation, labor, literature, academic >culture, and the intersections thereof. > > > >Man, I'm nervous just writing about it. > > > >Lucas > > > >________________________________________ >"There are two ways of knowing, under standing > and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The > second is called winning arguments." > -Kenneth Rexroth > >Lucas Klein > > LKlein@cipherjournal.com >216 Willow Street >New Haven, CT 06511 >ph: 203 676 0629 > > www.CipherJournal.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:41:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "the plan is the body" Robert Creeley "Emile Cioran, himself a crosser of linguistic boundaries (he was a Rumanian who wrote exquisite French prose), comments: "In a borrowed language, you are conscious of words; they exist not in you but outside of you. This interval between yourself and your means of expression explains why it is difficult, even impossible, to be a poet in another language besides your own. How extract a substance from words that are not rooted in you? The newcomer lives on the surface of language; he cannot, in a tongue belatedly learned, translate that subterranean agony from which poetry issues." Hard evidence of a sort for this view comes from the cognitive sciences. Steven Pinker in The Language Instinct mentions an ingenious experiment that shows how early infants get attuned to their mother tongue. It was found that "four-day-old French babies suck harder to hear French than Russian, and pick up their sucking more when a tape changes from Russian to French than from French to Russian." This positive response to the mother-tongue is due to the fact that "the melody of mothers' speech carries through their bodies and is audible in the womb. The babies still prefer French when the speech is electronically filtered so that the consonant and vowel sounds are muffled and only the melody comes through. But they are indifferent when the tapes are played backwards, which preserves the vowels and some of the consonants but distorts the melody. Nor does the effect prove the inherent beauty of the French language: nonFrench infants do not prefer French, and French infants do not distinguish Italian from English." The inference is that "The infants must have learned something about the prosody of French (its melody, stress and timing) in the womb, or in their first days out of it." The experiment demonstrates that one is most intimate with the lyric genius of one's mother tongue. It follows that poetry written in a language other than one's mother-tongue is not likely to be conspicuous for its lyricism." Translators are exceptional, are they not? _http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm_ (http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm) Mary ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:24:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) In-Reply-To: <37e.4816ffb.31bc3408@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed On eagerness of suckling: a small caveat. There are lots of poets who write in languages other than the one that came with mother's milk. Is there an age limit? Armand Schwerner was exclusively francophone until age 9, Reznikoff (I think--I'll stand correction) heard primarily yiddish at home, Codrescu Romanian. How about Celan? I could probably come up with a few more among us moderns. Charles d'Orleans (contemporary of Chaucer) wrote lovely poetry in English during his twelve years in captivity. Somebody else should pick up this list. And there's the question of dialect. Two interesting experiments to try: 1. Have a nursing mother coo to her infant in a language she learned in school. 2. Have said mother coo in different languages, one for the left, one for the right breast. At what point would the milk curdle? And (giggle giggle) the inevitable question: does it work with adults? Anyone remember the Jamie Leigh Curtis role in A Fish Called Wanda? Mark At 10:41 AM 6/10/2006, you wrote: >"the plan is the body" Robert Creeley > >"Emile Cioran, himself a crosser of linguistic boundaries (he was a Rumanian >who wrote exquisite French prose), comments: "In a borrowed language, you >are conscious of words; they exist not in you but outside of you. >This interval >between yourself and your means of expression explains why it is difficult, >even impossible, to be a poet in another language besides your own. How >extract a substance from words that are not rooted in you? The >newcomer lives on >the surface of language; he cannot, in a tongue belatedly learned, translate >that subterranean agony from which poetry issues." > >Hard evidence of a sort for this view comes from the cognitive sciences. >Steven Pinker in The Language Instinct mentions an ingenious experiment that >shows how early infants get attuned to their mother tongue. It was >found that >"four-day-old French babies suck harder to hear French >than Russian, and pick >up their sucking more when a tape changes from Russian to French than from >French to Russian." This positive response to the mother-tongue is >due to the >fact that "the melody of mothers' speech carries through their bodies and is >audible in the womb. The babies still prefer French when the speech is >electronically filtered so that the consonant and vowel sounds >are muffled and only >the melody comes through. But they are indifferent when the tapes are played >backwards, which preserves the vowels and some of the consonants >but distorts >the melody. Nor does the effect prove the inherent beauty of the French >language: nonFrench infants do not prefer French, and French infants do not >distinguish Italian from English." The inference is that "The >infants must have >learned something about the prosody of French (its melody, stress >and timing) in >the womb, or in their first days out of it." > >The experiment demonstrates that one is most intimate with the lyric genius >of one's mother tongue. It follows that poetry written in a language other >than one's mother-tongue is not likely to be conspicuous for its lyricism." > >Translators are exceptional, are they not? > >_http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm_ >(http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm) > >Mary ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:41:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Your earlier post appeared to take as accurate the article's summaries of postmodernism, and thus read, to me at least, as a mode of argument from authority. My comment that the article was biased was not a sweeping aside of criticism but rather an assertion that if our purpose is to find descriptions of postmodernism to argue about we might do better to look at the desriptions from writers such as Olson or Lyotard who were, albeit biased in different ways themselves, attempting to describe what they saw as emergent phenomena rather than, as the author of that article was doing, attempting to draw fatally flawed cause and effect arguments their own dismissive versions of other people's arguments -- I didn't say that you said that pomo paves the way for a theocracy -- I quoted a passage in the article in which that writer makes such an argument At leat two oddities about your assertion that science studies "helped" pave the way for creationism to gain a foothold -- one is that the science studies you seem to be talking about did not precede creationsim -- another is that most proponents of creationsim take the same antipostmodernism stance that you take -- I'm not arguing that you must be the friend of your enemy's enemies -- I'm just not clear about how postmodern questioning of foundationalist arguments and appeals to a transcendent ideal realm of truth help pave the way for people who hold that postmodernism is absolute relativism and a denial of truth -- -- On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:32:08 +0100, Roger Day wrote: > Fair comment - to a certain extent. I never claimed that article as > defining pomo. Neither do I claim that pomo paves the way to a > theocracy: I said it "helped" pave the way. I think science studies > has muddied the waters to a considerable degree, and allowed > creationism as an epistomology a foot-hold where it should have none. > However, sweeping aside criticism as "biased" seems to me to be the > wrong way to counter that criticism (it's almost the "Cartman > defence"). If that article has no validity, then I'm happy to hear the > reasons why. > > More grist to the mill: > > http://www2.truman.edu/~edis/writings/articles/relativism.html > > Roger > > On 09/06/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > but what I really don't get is why you turn to a quotation from somebody who > > clearly despises postmodernism for definitions of postmodern? Do you really > > believe that an article claiming that the "postmodernist left" has paved the > > way for religious fascisim is an ubiased source? > > > > On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:48:16 +0100, Roger Day wrote: > > > > > "all narratives are equal" was my misinterpretation of this article: > > > > > > http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=45 > > > > > > and probably some other things I've picked up along the way. I could > > > well have screwed the terms up. I am not a qualified practitioner of > > > these black arts and it appears that I will stay that unless I learn > > > to substitute "epistomology" for "narrative". Apologies all round. > > > > > > > > > For a postmodernist, however, this modernist faith in science is only > > > a sign of Eurocentrism and cultural imperialism. For a postmodernist, > > > other cultures are under no rational obligation to revise their > > > cosmologies, or adopt new procedures for ascertaining facts to bring > > > them in accord with modern science. Far from producing a uniquely > > > objective and universally valid account of nature, the "facts" of > > > modern science are only one among many other ways of constructing > > > other "facts" about nature, which are equally valid for other > > > cultures. Nature-in-itself cannot be known without imposing > > > classifications and meaning on it which are derived from cultural > > > metaphors and models. All ways of seeing nature are at par because all > > > are equally culture-bound. Modern science has no special claims to > > > truth and to our convictions, for it is as much of a cultural > > > construct of the West as other sciences are of their own cultures. > > > > > > This view of science is derived from a variety of American and > > > European philosophies of science, associated mostly with such > > > well-known philosophers as Thomas Kuhn, Paul Feyerabend, W.O Quine, > > > Ludwig Wittgenstein and Michel Foucault. This view of science has been > > > gaining popularity among Indian scholars of science since the infamous > > > "scientific temper" debates in early 1980s when Ashis Nandy, Vandana > > > Shiva and their sympathisers came out in defence of local knowledges > > > and traditions, including astrology, goddess worship as cure for > > > small-pox, taboos against menstruation and (later on) even sati. Over > > > the next two decades, it became a general practice in Indian scholarly > > > writing to treat modern science as just one way to adjudicate belief, > > > no different from any other tradition of sorting out truth from mere > > > group belief. Rationalism became a dirty word and Enlightenment became > > > a stand-in for "epistemic violence" of colonialism. > > > > > > > > > It seems to me that western science *has* some claims to the "truth", > > > or at least, a working set of truth, which includes the truth of > > > blowing up the world. > > > > > > Neither do I believe that to criticize western rationality makes one > > > irrational. However, throwing around the keys to such a gee-whiz bang > > > box'o tricks doesn't seem to be a particularly bright idea. > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > On 08/06/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > > for years now Sokal has been going around inviting people who talk about the > > > > postmodern to step out of his office window to see if gravity is socially > > > > constructed -- this is, of course, an absolutley silly perversion of what > > > > people talking about science studies had been saying -- just as is the > > canard > > > > that poststructuralists say that "everything is relative" -- > > > > > > > > and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and where is it > > said? > > > > > > > > To find fault with a correspondence theory of truth is not to say that > > > > "everything is relative" -- and neither is even the most reductive version > > of > > > > standpoint theory -- To argue that science proceeds by means of forms of > > > > narrative is not at all to say that there is no way to reach judgments about > > > > the workings of various narratives -- it is to say that "laws of science" > > are > > > > just that; laws of science are human descriptions of natural phenomena; > > > > theories of things such as gravity don't levitate in some eternal realm of > > the > > > > ideal any more than we do -- > > > > > > > > the first responders to the Sokal hoax did indeed come off badly, and should > > > > have taken a few minutes to think more carefully about just what the > > situation > > > > they were in was -- but Sokal himself seems to have little appreciation of > > just > > > > what his hoax did and did not accomplish -- > > > > > > > > For example -- if you read Sokal at length you will find him making much of > > the > > > > discussion Derrida got into during the Q & A at the famous Johns Hopkins > > > > conference about an "Einsteinian constant" -- Well, it turns out, despite > > what > > > > Sokal said, that there was such a thing as an "Einsteinian constant" and > > that > > > > scientists have recently returned for another look to the idea that Einstein > > > > himself had at one time abandoned -- now, I think it's pretty clear that it > > > > isn't the same idea Derrida and company were talking about, but the point is > > > > that Sokal was a bit too hasty in his denunciations -- as the people at > > Social > > > > Text were a bit too hasty in responding to him -- > > > > > > > > and does anybody really believe that any critique of western reason iplies > > an > > > > adoption of irrationality? isn't that rather like saying that becaue > > Olson's > > > > postmodernism criticized western humanism he was opposed to humans? > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > > > The Pennsylvania State University > > > > 116 Burrowes > > > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://www.badstep.net/ > > > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > > > "My other car is Eliot's Wasteland" > > > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > "My other car is Eliot's Wasteland" > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 13:15:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain just by way of reminder of how we got to this point: I read here that postmodernism claims that all narratives are equal. As someone who has read fairly extensively in the literature of postmodernism, I was a bit surprised by this, never having encountered it as an assertion made by any proponents of postmodern views. But since I haven't read EVERYTHING, and could imagine that somenone somewhere may have said such a thing under the guise of theorizing the postmodern, I asked -- > > > > > and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and where is it > > > said? > > > > > in response: > > > On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:48:16 +0100, Roger Day wrote: > > > > > > > "all narratives are equal" was my misinterpretation of this article: > > > > > > > > http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=45 > > > > Upon reading that article, I saw that it was not in fact any proponent of postmodernism saying anything like "all narratives are equal," but was in fact an attack upon theorists of postmodernism, creating a number of straw man arguments. So I asked as follows: >> > On 09/06/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > but what I really don't get is why you turn to a quotation from somebody who > > > clearly despises postmodernism for definitions of postmodern? Do you really > > > believe that an article claiming that the "postmodernist left" has paved the > > > way for religious fascisim is an ubiased source? > > > which got us to: > > > On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:32:08 +0100, Roger Day wrote: > > sweeping aside criticism as "biased" seems to me to be the > > wrong way to counter that criticism (it's almost the "Cartman > > defence"). If that article has no validity, then I'm happy to hear the > > reasons why. What I was arguing was that we shouldn't rely on assertions of what postmodernism holds to be the case that come from a clearly biased source. (there's plenty enough to argue about just in the differing views of the postmodern we get from someone like Lyotard and someone who reads it as a sypmtom, like Jameson, without going to someone like the author of this article who can't be trusted to represent the arguments at issue.) Basing a criticism on a misrepresentation of the opposing view is indeed a straw man argument -- saying so is not "brushing aside" criticism, it is in fact pointing out one of the flaws that invalidates the criticism, as you ask me to do -- that takes up my two post quota for the day, so I retire from the field -- watch my blog later this weekend for a brief accout of my trip to the drive-in movies! http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 15:52:18 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Does Injustice Make you Feel Safe? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/50323.php Does Injustice Make you Feel Safe? The Secret Trial Five, as they are known, are all being held on "security certificates"-a draconian measure introduced 20 years ago that allows Canada to imprison non-citizens indefinitely without charges....So, why should queer people in Canada care about five Muslim men who have been accused of terrorism? ...But according to Gary Kinsman, a sociology professor at Laurentian University, Canadian gays and lesbians should be alarmed, because the ways that Muslim men are being targeted by the RCMP and CSIS mirrors the ways that gays were targeted in the 1960s and '70s.... Does Injustice Make you Feel Safe? THE WORLD WITHIN Ariel Troster; Thursday, June 08, 2006 - Capital Xtra http://www.xtra.ca/public/viewstory.aspx?AFF_TYPE=2&STORY_ID=1723&PUB_TEMPLATE_ID=7 Mahmood Jaballah. Mohammed Majoub. Hassan Almrei. Mohamed Harkat. Adil Charakaoui. You might not recognize these names, but you should. All five men have been imprisoned for years at a time with no access to the charges or the evidence against them. Two are now out on bail, complying with severe restrictions, including in one case, being banned from speaking Arabic. All five men could face deportation to countries where they will be tortured. And this is happening in Canada-a country that prides itself on promoting human rights and civil liberties. The Secret Trial Five, as they are known, are all being held on "security certificates"-a draconian measure introduced 20 years ago that allows Canada to imprison non-citizens indefinitely without charges. Even the detainees' lawyers are not allowed to see the evidence against their clients. And what does it take to get an immigrant thrown in jail? Two signatures-one from the immigration minister and one from the minister of public safety, in this case, Stockwell Day. Yep, the same guy who has been quoted saying he believes that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and that homosexuality is a "mental disorder that can be cured by counselling." CSIS officials make their case behind closed doors, and two politicians get to decide whether or not a person will have to endure years of Kafkaesque hell. So, why should queer people in Canada care about five Muslim men who have been accused of terrorism? Some would argue that restrictions on human rights are a necessary precaution, in the face of the Osama Bin Ladens of the world. But according to Gary Kinsman, a sociology professor at Laurentian University, Canadian gays and lesbians should be alarmed, because the ways that Muslim men are being targeted by the RCMP and CSIS mirrors the ways that gays were targeted in the 1960s and '70s. Kinsman has studied the RCMP's surveillance of gays and lesbians in Canada. This included the purging of thousands of queer people from the Canadian civil service, and the use of the "fruit machine"-a device that was designed to identify homosexuals by showing people pornography and measuring the dilation of their pupils. The theory was that homosexuals were vulnerable to blackmailing by Soviet agents, who could have extracted state secrets by threatening to reveal their sexuality. "It's important to remind people that lesbians and gay men were major targets from 1958 onwards," says Kinsman. "The RCMP would go to community organizations and ask about people's practices. They would harass people's families. In the 1970s, the RCMP conducted pretty specific surveillance on gay and lesbian organizations. At the first gay march in Ottawa in 1971, the RCMP was watching. They targeted not just individuals, but entire social movements. And people had no idea what evidence had been collected about them." According to In The Shadow Of The Law, a report published by the International Civil Liberties Monitoring Group, in "hundreds" of instances, Arab and Muslim people in Canada "are being visited for interviews by security forces without warrants, and taken away for interrogation. Although the full extent of Bill C-36 [so-called 'anti-terror' legislation swiftly passed by Parliament in 2001] was not implemented in these cases, it has been used as a threat to 'encourage' voluntary interviews by citing the risk of preventative detention allowed under the Act. Victims of such police conduct have been afraid to come forward publicly for fear of further retaliation." Some may not be surprised that Stephen Harper's government is unwilling to repeal the most egregious elements of Canada's anti-terrorism legislation. And the pressure from the US to join George Bush's War on Terror continues to escalate. The US State Department's annual Country Report on Terrorism called Canada a "safe haven" for Islamic terrorists, saying that political fallout from the Maher Arar case has created a chill between Canadian and US intelligence agencies. Kinsman believes it's the increasing integration of Canadian and US foreign policy that leaves us vulnerable to terrorism, not the imagined actions of individual Arab and Muslim immigrants. He cites Canada's newfound role in Afghanistan and the logistical and material support that Canada is providing to the US occupation of Iraq. Kinsman rejects the notion that immigrants should be the targeted, especially in those cases involving security certificates, where the government hasn't been required to produce one shred of evidence to support the (top secret) charges being levelled at Jaballah, Majoub, Almrei, Harkat and Charakaoui. "We should remember that until 1976, it was illegal for lesbians and gay men to immigrate to Canada," said Kinsman. "If gays and lesbians have learned anything about our history, we should stand in solidarity with the people who are being targeted today." And despite the millions of dollars spent and thousands of lives ruined by the RCMP's campaign against homosexuals, not one confirmed case of Soviet blackmail ever emerged. This month, the Supreme Court of Canada will be hearing Adil Charakaoui's appeal of his detention, ruling on whether or not security certificates are constitutionally valid. Let's not leave it to future historians to condemn security certificates as a black mark against Canada's human rights record. Ariel Troster is the vice president of Egale Canada. The opinions expressed in this column are hers alone. Check out her blog at http://www.dykesagainstharper.blogspot.com http://www.dykesagainstharper.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ___ Stay Strong \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" \ "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 17:22:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <200606101715.k5AHFYj28281@webmail13.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm new to the list, but this conversation has been fascinating reading for a first timer, I just wanted to chime in with a couple of points that the discussion has raised for me: 1.) Criticism's of "Postmodernism" that represent "Postmodernism" as an ideology with identifiable values and tenets often miss the boat as, on the one hand, it misses the semantic distinction between postmodern philosophy and postmodern literature, not to mention their bastard child in postmodern critical theory. Postmodern philosophy, as a grouping, really only makes sense as the other half of modernist philosophy, the point being, at the beginning of the twenty first century in the world of philosophy there are currently groups of people who take as a jumping off point on questions of epistemology the British empiricists, the logical positivists, and/or Wittgenstein. These philosophers, the modernists who are also known as "analytic" philosophers because they work in a tradition largely influenced by the Cambridge philosophers of the last century (Russell, Moore, Ramsey, Ayer, Ryle), who, after Frege, felt that the whole game of philosophy was to get the answer through logic and the analysis of syntax and semantics. On the Other hand, Postmodernists follow in the tradition of the continental rationalists, nietzche, Hegel, and/or Heidegger and from them grew out not just the existentialists, but the structuralists, post-structuralists, and "Postmodernists" like Lyotard. What's truly the most interesting aspect of this distinction from the point of view of a poetics is that the differences between modernist and postmodernist philosophy is primarily a stylistic and methodological one as opposed to real differences in thought. The various camps, generally, don't even talk about the same things, and it's only when generally less well informed lights try to bring to bear the arguments of one camp on the positions of the other (in the process taking all sorts of things grossly out of the context within which they are meaningful) that problems occur. These problems of course, are not real, and generally the criticisms one sees as a result, alan sokal's naive popperism in response to science studies, are little more than tilting at windmills. For more on that phenomenon, see Gabriel Stolzenberg's various commentaries on "The Science Wars" here: http://math.bu.edu/people/nk/rr/ 2.) One thing that I think one can be fairly critical of is the application of the work of various postmodern philosophers in various jargon fueled and specious ways by, generally, students and professors engaged in fairly woolly disciplines. While one hesitates to go so far as to criticize the existence of such programs, generally speaking it is difficult to tell what specific sort of training goes on in English departments, ethnic studies departments, gender studies departments, or comp lit departments that qualifies their graduates to hold forth on matters relating to science, logic, philosophy, mathematics, the history of science, history, and sociology. Which is to say that I think the broad reach of various forms of literary criticism has in a lot of cases confused various critics into thinking that their purview is something beyond textual analysis and i think that a lot of people who've spent a lot of time studying and developing expertise in other disciplines rankle when they get criticized by folks who really don't know what they're talking about. In response, they, like Alan Sokal and various other outsider critics of "Postmodernism" turn not on the uninformed mediocre lights spitting jargon at them in a meaningless way, but rather to the sources, possibly quite honestly in the naive hope that they will discover what it is that these people are talking about so that they can respond in kind. What they encounter, of course, is largely a bunch of semiotic theory or linguistics that doesn't in any way relate to empirical science or mathematics or history or whatever, and which, naturally, they as people who are not well versed in that sort of thing, looks like total gibberish. So, combined with the gibberish-as-accident here and the abject gibberish spewed by the mediocre lights of other depts at the Uni, these people, being rational if maybe a little arrogant in their expertise, conclude that the whole field of "Postmodernism," which label they apply because they can't find anything else that fits and it looks like a word that describes an ideology, as nonsensical and counter-productive. 3.) and this is the short point, sorry to go on at such length in my first post, what's really interesting is when people actually do the work to be versed in the various fields. People like Hilary Putnam or Umberto Eco, or even Gabriel Stolzenberg, who commit to doing the reading and understanding the various fields and arguments without allowing personal ideologies to influence their attempt to understand the Other. Interesting synthetic ideas come out of this sort of inquiry and i think from a poetics standpoint, particularly when it comes to the sort of envelope pushing that more avantist American poets get up to, that can only be a good thing. What's required, really, is the subjugation of the us or them impulse and allowing intellectual curiosity to be ones guide. Given the current state of things, i think the world could do with a lot more intellectual curiosity. thanks, Jason Quackenbush Editor Wet Asphalt Literary Blogazine www.wetasphalt.com ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > just by way of reminder of how we got to this point: I read here that > postmodernism claims that all narratives are equal. As someone who has read > fairly extensively in the literature of postmodernism, I was a bit surprised by > this, never having encountered it as an assertion made by any proponents of > postmodern views. > > But since I haven't read EVERYTHING, and could imagine that somenone somewhere > may have said such a thing under the guise of theorizing the postmodern, I > asked -- > > >>>>>>and just who is it that says "all narratives are equal" and where is > > it > >>>>said? >>>> > > in response: > >>>>On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:48:16 +0100, Roger Day wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>"all narratives are equal" was my misinterpretation of this article: >>>>> >>>>>http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=45 >>>>> > > > Upon reading that article, I saw that it was not in fact any proponent of > postmodernism saying anything like "all narratives are equal," but was in fact > an attack upon theorists of postmodernism, creating a number of straw man > arguments. So I asked as follows: > > >>>>On 09/06/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >>>>but what I really don't get is why you turn to a quotation from somebody > > who > >>>>clearly despises postmodernism for definitions of postmodern? Do you > > really > >>>>believe that an article claiming that the "postmodernist left" has paved > > the > >>>>way for religious fascisim is an ubiased source? >>>> > > > which got us to: > > > >> >>On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:32:08 +0100, Roger Day wrote: >> >>sweeping aside criticism as "biased" seems to me to be the >> >>>wrong way to counter that criticism (it's almost the "Cartman >>>defence"). If that article has no validity, then I'm happy to hear the >>>reasons why. > > > What I was arguing was that we shouldn't rely on assertions of what > postmodernism holds to be the case that come from a clearly biased source. > (there's plenty enough to argue about just in the differing views of the > postmodern we get from someone like Lyotard and someone who reads it as a > sypmtom, like Jameson, without going to someone like the author of this article > who can't be trusted to represent the arguments at issue.) Basing a criticism > on a misrepresentation of the opposing view is indeed a straw man argument -- > saying so is not "brushing aside" criticism, it is in fact pointing out one of > the flaws that invalidates the criticism, as you ask me to do -- > > > that takes up my two post quota for the day, so I retire from the field -- > > watch my blog later this weekend for a brief accout of my trip to the drive-in > movies! > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 21:34:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kenneth Wolman Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060610110336.053656c8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Weiss wrote: > On eagerness of suckling: a small caveat. There are lots of poets who > write in languages other than the one that came with mother's milk. Is > there an age limit? Armand Schwerner was exclusively francophone until > age 9, Reznikoff (I think--I'll stand correction) heard primarily > yiddish at home, Codrescu Romanian. How about Celan? I could probably > come up with a few more among us moderns. Charles d'Orleans > (contemporary of Chaucer) wrote lovely poetry in English during his > twelve years in captivity. > > Somebody else should pick up this list. Only to the extent I will ask a question that others might wish to answer. Joseph Conrad. Reportedly English was not his second but his third language. The order was Polish, French, finally English. Well, this is not a question...maybe. When could he have learned English with such fluency? He was 36 when Almayer's Folly was published. Mastery of a language does not just happen? Ken -------------------- Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com "Don't be a baby, be a man. Sell out."--Lenny Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 21:46:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) In-Reply-To: <448B7338.7090205@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed He'd been sailing on primarily English ships and living in an English speaking environment from the age of 18. And there was exposure at home--his father was a translator of Shakespeare into Polish. Plus he was brilliant, and he read a lot. Til the day he died, however, he spoke with a heavy accent. In a largely forgotten novella, "Amy Foster," Conrad expresses his fears about what being a foreigner in England felt like. The eponymous heroine, in an isolated village in The Wash marries a foreign, non-anglophone sailor who washes ashore one night. Gradually she adopts the fears and prejudices of the other villagers. I'll go no further--it's too good a story to explain away--one of his best. Mark At 09:34 PM 6/10/2006, you wrote: >Mark Weiss wrote: >>On eagerness of suckling: a small caveat. There are lots of poets >>who write in languages other than the one that came with mother's >>milk. Is there an age limit? Armand Schwerner was exclusively >>francophone until age 9, Reznikoff (I think--I'll stand correction) >>heard primarily yiddish at home, Codrescu Romanian. How about >>Celan? I could probably come up with a few more among us moderns. >>Charles d'Orleans (contemporary of Chaucer) wrote lovely poetry in >>English during his twelve years in captivity. >> >>Somebody else should pick up this list. >Only to the extent I will ask a question that others might wish to >answer. Joseph Conrad. Reportedly English was not his second but >his third language. The order was Polish, French, finally >English. Well, this is not a question...maybe. When could he have >learned English with such fluency? He was 36 when Almayer's Folly >was published. Mastery of a language does not just happen? > >Ken > >-------------------- >Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com > > "Don't be a baby, be a man. Sell out."--Lenny Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 02:13:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: When MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline When - incidental verse http://tinyurl.com/pd49b -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 00:45:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <3c5.3b429e7.31b6c754@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just curious as to whether this issue was resolved on this list. I think it's important to speak Spanish, personally, certainly more than, say, Chinese or German, and certainly in the context of long-term relations among the Americas. To be multilingual (to whatever extant) would be great, too. I wonder, however, and this is a sincere question, how attempts at assisting immigrants, children of immigrants, Americans with whatever challenges (income, cultural)at learning English well are coming along? I ask because outside of the US, there seems to be a consensus that speaking English well, if one wants to be mobile, have much of a chance of competing, is required. And this would certainly seem important for any nation where English is not secondary. (Additionally, quite the industry has developed in Latin America, Asia, Europe around this model). French? Well, and while I have no problem whatsoever with France in general, and I do much admire the culture, their imprisonment of Tom Paine notwithstanding, I think it best to ask the Europeans (and they will, most probably, laugh). Please backchannel me on this if time permits. I would be very interested. --Alex Jorgensen --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 00:52:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: When In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0606102313k6296a812y185046f67db0fd29@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > When - incidental verse > http://tinyurl.com/pd49b > I find this new visual real intriguing, Peter. Warmer. And the type seems closer, 'more real' to this world. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Where I have just written a little essay Comparing Al Gore's movie aesthetics for Inconvenient Truth with Those of William Kittridge for Tide Table, a video piece. > > > > > > > -- Peter Ciccariello > http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:30:39 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <025701c68c7a$977035d0$2bbb8a56@andrew1d83eb60> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I have it in my sweaty paws. All good knockabout stuff. I'm not sure Foucault comes away clean - the few time he's mentioned is when he's declaring Deleuze to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. However, I think a rapprochement is over-due, or one side cries "civilisation!!!" I've been having a running argument hereabouts wherein I've, ironically given my posts here, been defending pomo philosophy, arguing that the current anglo-saxon science establishment is closed and that, at some stage, scientific thought will have to come to grips with the fruits of post-modernism, whatever they are[1]. I have argued with the mysogynists hereabouts that a feminine science might come up with different answers, althought it's hard to see how: F=ma E=mc(sqr) area of a circle = pi times radius squared could be vastly different under any alternate system (although that's an unprovable assertion). I can see what is meant by women probably handling the maths of flow dynamics better however, the Navier-Stokes equation look just plain hard for anyone ... although of course you could set up an experiment to test the assertion. Reading other reactions to my emails, it seems that "oh, they don't understand us" seems to be the defence of the day. Oh, poor you. As for science studies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_studies wherein Foucault gets a mention.I leave it up to better minds than mine to decide whether or Science Studies is a "proper", "legitimate" branch of pomoism, although "social construction of knowledge" gets mentioned a lot in relation to Science Studies. Enter Steve Fuller, who claims not to be a pomoist, but to be living in the post-modern condition, thus neatly avoiding having to define himself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Fuller_%28social_epistemologist%29 He testified as an expert witness defending Intelligent Design in the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District case. However, his position seems to be very close to Paul Feyerabend, who - correct me if I'm wrong here - seems to argue for a democritisation of epistomologies. Amusingly, Paul Feyerabend wrote: "We have learned that there are phenomena such as telepathy and telekinesis which are obliterated by a scientific approach and which could be used to do research in an entirely novel way (earlier thinkers such as Agrippa of Nettesheim, John Dee, and even Bacon were aware of these phenomena)." (http://www.galilean-library.org/feyerabend1.html) What-evah, dude. My thanks to Aldon for introducing me to a genuinely new form of entertainment. Farewell to reason indeed. Of course, he doesn't actually *defend creationism, however, and this is where I scratch my head a bit, it does appear to encourage thoughts that creationism may spring from an epistomology which is to be taken seriously and valid. Intelligent Design certainly post-dates PF's assertions. And PF seems to be a paid-up member of the pomo club, although maybe his membership has expired? Roger [1] I have seen some naughty people actually questioning the acheivements of theorists. Maybe to have a theory is acheivement enough? On 10/06/06, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Could we stir Sokal and Bricomart's +Intellectual Impostures+ into this mix? > They link (alternative chapters) an attack on postmodernism with an analysis > of scientific epistemology, the whole thing written from an +activist+ > American Left stance (to a large degree explaining the ferocity of Sokal's > critique -- his big hero, as he makes plain, is Noam Chomsky). > > Interesting that the only major figure to emerge unscathed is Foucault. > > (I think there may also be a hint of the Institute of General Sematics in > the background, but I wouldn't go to the stake for this.) > > Roger, have you read it? What do you think of it? > > Robin > > Roger Day says: > > > > Fair comment - to a certain extent. I never claimed that article as > > defining pomo. Neither do I claim that pomo paves the way to a > > theocracy: I said it "helped" pave the way. I think science studies > > has muddied the waters to a considerable degree, and allowed > > creationism as an epistomology a foot-hold where it should have none. > > However, sweeping aside criticism as "biased" seems to me to be the > > wrong way to counter that criticism (it's almost the "Cartman > > defence"). If that article has no validity, then I'm happy to hear the > > reasons why. > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "My other car is Eliot's Wasteland" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:55:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: Calamari Press News: John Olson Drops Shakespeare on his Cat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 New from Calamari Press: The Night I Dropped Shakespeare on the Cat =20 by John Olson ISBN 0-9770723-3-9 160 pages Perfect bound=20 $13 The Night I Dropped Shakespeare on the Cat is a collection of prose = poems, flash fictions, creative essays and texts that defy or meld the = boundaries between these genres. Individual pieces from The Night I Dropped = Shakespeare on the Cat have appeared in the likes of Sentence: A Journal of Prose Poetics, The Absinthe Literary Review, Cranky, First Intensity, New = American Writing, Bird Dog and Call: Review. John Olson previously authored Oxbow Kazoo (First Intensity), Free Stream Velocity (Black Square Editions) = and Echo Regime (Black Square Editions). To read some samples from the book, click here: .=20 You can get a copy directly from Calamari Press or wait until it hits bookstores like Powell=92s. Contact me directly for review copies.=20 In other Calamari Press news: * The next issue (#0.875) of Sleepingfish is at the printers and should = be available by the end of July. You can sneak a peak at the cover (by = Eduardo Recife) and some of the authors that will be in the issue at www.sleepingfish.net. In anticipation of the release, we will be posting serialized excerpts from Lance Olsen=92s Anxious Pleasures to the = website. The first excerpt, grete, is already up here: There will also be a Sleepingfish launch party on July 30 at the = Magnetic Field in Brooklyn, stay tuned for details. =20 * Peter Markus=92 "Good, Brother" will also be out some time this = summer. * Tarpaulin Sky recently posted a comprehensive review by Selah = Saterstrom of Calamari Press and Sleepingfish:=20 =20 =20 Recent =93reviews=94 posted on 5=A2ense (www.5cense.com): =20 * =93Concrete Poetry=94 : Giving it Back to the Streets of NYC * Inverse Anthropomorphisms and Animistic Animals in Recent Literature : with reviews of James Tate, Aase Berg and Lara Glenum * A Beautiful Compression : An Appreciation of Kathryn Rantala=92s The = Plant Waterer by Norman Lock=20 Please note that Calamari Press has moved yet again, the new mailing = address is below, the email and virtual addresses remain the same.=20 Thanks, spread the words... Derek White / Calamari Press 202 E. 7th St. Apt. 1D New York, NY 10009 www.calamaripress.com=20 www.sleepingfish.net=20 www.5cense.com=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:37:55 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re +Intellectual Impostures+ (which has a different title in the States, +Fahionable Nonsense+ -- wonder who was responsible for knocking the edge off the British version?): >I have it in my sweaty paws. All good knockabout stuff. Neat way of putting it. > I'm not sure > Foucault comes away clean - the few time he's mentioned is when he's > declaring Deleuze to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well, it was mutual -- Deleuze after all did say the last millenium would be seen as the Age of Foucault, and wrote his biography (which I have on my shelves but not yet read). Mibee perhaps interesting, given the activist Left subtext of +Intellectual Impostures+, that Foucault is the only one of the usual suspects that Noam Chomsky has any time for. (Me too, to acknowledge my prejudices.) I rather like Delueze -- mad as a kite but with a nice line in images -- those rhyzomes! The Sage of Raynes Park no doubt reads him on his allotment. Otherwise, I have to say I'm unremittingly neanderthal when it comes to the pomo Literary Critical branch of postmodernism (to follow Jason Quackenbush's useful distinction). I get on a bit with New Historicism (which isn't in my book postmodern -- the Brit side comes out of Lever's +Tragedy of State+) which I had to, once working in the Renaissance. But as for Derrida ... I once obtained a doctor's note saying I was medically excused from having to read him. > I have > argued with the mysogynists hereabouts that a feminine science might > come up with different answers, althought it's hard to see how: > > F=ma > E=mc(sqr) > area of a circle = pi times radius squared > > could be vastly different under any alternate system (although that's > an unprovable assertion). I kinda think we ought to draw a distinction between the epistomology of science and the epistomology of mathematics -- pi is definitely the later, E=mc(sqr) maybe on the boundary. It always irritates me, on the same lines that the statement, "Humanity is descended from the apes" irritates me -- we're descended from a common ancestor, monkeys are our cousins, not our grandfathers -- to be told that Newton was proved wrong by Einstein. Load of bullshit. Newtonian physics was redefined as a subset of a larger physics, and still has an "absolute truth" in its own frame. And Newtonian physics is probably more mathematics than science. Equally, moving deeper into pure math, Euclid has lasted even longer and never been disproved, but became a subset of a larger mathematics about the same time as Newton was put in his place. > Reading other reactions to my emails, it seems that "oh, they don't > understand us" seems to be the defence of the day. Oh, poor you. Tut tut, Roger, mind your language. > However, his position seems to be very close to Paul Feyerabend, who - > correct me if I'm wrong here - seems to argue for a democritisation of > epistomologies. I'm trying to remember what Sokal and Bricmont say about Feyerabend -- I think they see him as a hard rather than a soft epistomological relativist. Sloppy misquote, but I can't put my hand on +II+ to check the terms they actually use. I found the chapters on scientific epistemology a damn sight easier to understand than the chapters on postmodernism, and also more interesting. Really, all I got from the pomo slagging was a good laugh, but on occasions found it as hard for me to get my head round as pomo itself. 'Nuff. Robin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:21:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <448B623E.2090502@myuw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 10 Jun 2006 at 17:22, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... the semantic distinction between postmodern > philosophy and postmodern literature, not to mention their bastard > child in postmodern critical theory. ...< Very interesting post, and I suppose useful within the discussion, but sort of like making careful distinctions between kinds of cargo cults, isn't it? Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:20:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Sunday Breakfast Links Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Some recommended web readings and links at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:56:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Halle Subject: Now Playing: Seven Corners Double Feature Comments: To: Adam Fieled , Alex Frankel , Anne Waldman , Becky Hilliker , Bill Garvey , "bkbmfa@yahoo.com" , Bob Archambeau , "Bowen, Kristy" , Brandi Homan , cahnmann@uga.edu, "Chapman, Joanne" , chard deNiord , Cheryl Keeler , Chris Glomski , Chris Goodrich , Craig Halle , Daniel Godston , Dan Pedersen , DAVID PAVELICH , Didi Menendez , ela kotkowska , Ela Kotkowska , "f.lord@snhu.edu" , Garin Cycholl , heather pearl , Jacqueline Gens , James DeFrain , Jay Rubin , jeremy@invisible-city.com, John Krumberger , JOHN TIPTON , Judith Vollmer , Jules Gibbs , Julianna McCarthy , "K. R." , Kate Doane , Kristin Prevallet , "Lea C. Deschenes" , "lesliesysko@hotmail.com" , Malia Hwang-Carlos , Marie U , Mark Tardi , Michael OLeary , Michelle Taransky , Monica Halle , "Odelius, Kristy Lee" , pba1@surewest.net, pen@splab.org, Randolph Healy , Rick Wishcamper , Ross Gay , Simone Muench , thedoanes@inwave.com, timothy daisy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Spend part of your Sunday at the Seven Corners poetry drive-in ( www.sevencornerspoetry.blogspot.com). Today's double feature includes Jeremy P. Bushnell and Ela Kotkowska. Please take a few minutes to check out their fine poems, and don't forget the popcorn and Milk Duds. Best, Steve Halle Editor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 07:59:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Brazil Conference / Sunday Breakfast Links In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060611101522.03582560@english.upenn.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable > Some recommended web readings and links at > http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog I just read the following description for a Brazil conference (this apparently must have just happened) on Charles' website. I think it bears repeating in and of itself - and the question to Charles of whether the papers from the international cast of participating poets will be published= , etc?? Poetry in a Time of War and Banality International Meeting Curators: R=E9gis Bonvicino & Alcir P=E9cora Proposal=20 The twentieth century appears to have bestowed on us a legacy of constant and seemingly irreparable disaster. It left us with the aporia that poetry, as the synthesis of intellectual and creative activity, has become incapabl= e of dealing with stupidity and barbarism. This is evident in the Nazi and Fascist crimes as well as in the institutionalization of economic violence in a world that is becoming both global and disorganized at the same rate, with catastrophic consequences in the form of local, ethnic conflicts moved by hate, sectarianisms, and private tragedies. What remains of the nationalist projects has become a strategy to strengthen corporate interests; at the same time, internationalism, rather than opening up to pluralistic and democratic human experiences, has boiled down to a strategy of exploitation=8Beconomic, touristic, and for the sake of legitimizing racia= l and social prejudices. In the beginning of this century, a new form of such violence has begun to emerge, one derived precisely from its continued existence: it is the muffling, the dampening down of the scene of destruction. An impotent creation --lagging behind technology, the market and a voracious media and communications industry, lacking any political impact or liberating aesthetic--, it survives by shrinking poetic goals or the audience for poetry. Skepticism vis-=E0-vis revolutionary transformation, the consistency of the avant-gardes or ideological dogmatism has not resulted in actions that are freer, as we would like to think, but, instead, has given us a mor= e garrulous production in increasingly homogeneous environments. Joint property of peers, corporate genre practices=8Ball these fragment and render poetic production banal. Parochial activity takes offence at criticism and debate. Condescendence, lack of courage, a pact of peers, mutual forgivenes= s make evident the scant seriousness accorded to poetry, as well as the disbelief in its transformative power. But what type of real production could relinquish the power to transform? An impressive consequence of that legacy of catastrophic continuities (whic= h precisely dampens down and absorbs disaster as a normal occurrence) is the conformity poetry displays vis-=E0-vis an average production. In that environment, writing becomes an inconsequential habit, a " hobby"=8Bi.e., a activity of one's childhood or youth and that one abandons upon reaching adulthood, or that is continued merely as a weekend activity--, or instead, a professional occupation, as any other, a modest way to earn a living alongside other editorial or university-teaching tasks. In such times, ther= e is no more reason to expel the poets from the Republic --as Plato would hav= e it=8Bwhich does not mean a lack of spiritual progress: apparently, no poet is perceived as dangerous anymore, as incongruous or rapturous, to the point o= f affecting the disorderly order of contemporary uncivil life. How to respond to such a lack of vision and of urgency peculiar to poetry, = a realm that by definition is hostile to mediocrity? How to resist that barbarian shrinking of horizons, proportional to the redundant proliferatio= n of garrulous writing? Or, at least, how to denaturalize disaster and reconquer the pain emerging from it? Can poetry still be more than an affirmation of frivolity, arrivisme, and intellectual affectation or --on the opposite end of the spectrum-- of loutish modesty and a hopeless remainder? If we don't already have plans for the future, it's important to say that the present also does not belong to us: the dampening down of expectations produces indifference, alienation and routine, not the enjoyment of a pleasant life. What can poetry do against this state of things which seems to have no end? And if it can do nothing, can it be more than frivolity?=20 Artistas convidados e contatos Para debater essas quest=F5es e ler os seus pr=F3prios poemas, com suas quest=F5e= s e alternativas, convidamos 8 poetas de primeiro time: 5 poetas internacionais, de diferentes l=EDnguas e experi=EAncias po=E9ticas, e 3 brasileiros, a saber: Arkaddi Dragomoshenko (R=FAssia) Charles Bernstein ( Estados Unidos) Eduardo Mil=E1n (Uruguai/M=E9xico) Leevi Lehto (Finl=E2ndia) Nuno Ramos (Brasil) Paulo Henriques Britto (Brasil) Roberto Piva (Brasil) Yao Jing Ming (China) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:32:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Petermeier Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mark Weiss wrote: > > Somebody else should pick up this list. Kenneth Wolman responded: > Only to the extent I will ask a question that others > might wish to answer. Joseph Conrad. Reportedly > English was not his second but his third language. Along those lines, I'd like to mention Samuel Beckett. He wrote much of his best work in French. The idea that someone who has not heard a language from the womb to adulthood should be a prerequisite to being a poet is idiotic. A baby responds to the voice of its mother regardless of the language. A poet can write a poem in any language. Somebody could know two words in a language and write a poem in it (if they were the right two words). English is my first language, but I've studied French & German, lived in Germany, and am now studying Ojibwe. Through my ancestors I feel a strong connection to the German language, perhaps hearing my grandparents when in the womb or during childhood. But, so far, learning Ojibwe has been a profound experience. From my point of view, European languages like English, French, German and Spanish, though adopted by many people living in the Americas, will always be colonial languages and thus necessarily foreign, just like dandelions are plants foreign to the Americas. They may thrive here, but we should recognize their origins. There should be special recognition to all the indigenous languages of the Americas -- Ojibwe, Dakota, Mvskoke, Navajo, and on and on -- and they should be actively studied and preserved, and most importantly used as often as possible. Then, instead of being choked out by weeds, perhaps the indigenous languages can thrive like potatoes and tomatoes. miigwetch peace, love, and understanding (never give up!) Steve Petermeier no man's land minnepaolis, mn usa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:59:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <20060611153249.85798.qmail@web32805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I made fun of the original post. But to be fair, the post referred to "the lyric genius of one's mother tongue." Suppressing the gag reflex, it would seem that the author was limiting poetry to a particular kind of poetry, the lyric, or even "one's native woodnotes wild," and was definitely not talking about prose, where the distancing that Cioran mentions usually comes into play for native and foreigner alike, because most prose attempts to express or explain something other than itself. A problem with the experiment is that French mothers don't speak French as such to their infants any more than English mothers speak English to theirs--the rhythms of their speech are in fact quite different from the language used between adults (except in bed) and tend to be similar in all languages. Apparently it's instinctive to croon to babies. Do bottle-fed poets write formulaically? Mark At 11:32 AM 6/11/2006, you wrote: >Mark Weiss wrote: > > > Somebody else should pick up this list. > >Kenneth Wolman responded: > > Only to the extent I will ask a question that others > > might wish to answer. Joseph Conrad. Reportedly > > English was not his second but his third language. > >Along those lines, I'd like to mention Samuel Beckett. > He wrote much of his best work in French. > >The idea that someone who has not heard a language >from the womb to adulthood should be a prerequisite to >being a poet is idiotic. A baby responds to the voice >of its mother regardless of the language. A poet can >write a poem in any language. Somebody could know two >words in a language and write a poem in it (if they >were the right two words). > >English is my first language, but I've studied French >& German, lived in Germany, and am now studying >Ojibwe. Through my ancestors I feel a strong >connection to the German language, perhaps hearing my >grandparents when in the womb or during childhood. >But, so far, learning Ojibwe has been a profound >experience. > > From my point of view, European languages like >English, French, German and Spanish, though adopted by >many people living in the Americas, will always be >colonial languages and thus necessarily foreign, just >like dandelions are plants foreign to the Americas. >They may thrive here, but we should recognize their >origins. There should be special recognition to all >the indigenous languages of the Americas -- Ojibwe, >Dakota, Mvskoke, Navajo, and on and on -- and they >should be actively studied and preserved, and most >importantly used as often as possible. Then, instead >of being choked out by weeds, perhaps the indigenous >languages can thrive like potatoes and tomatoes. > >miigwetch > >peace, love, and understanding (never give up!) > >Steve Petermeier >no man's land >minnepaolis, mn >usa > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:26:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: is a mother foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . . . different from the language used between adults (except in bed) and tend to be similar in all languages . . . Do bottle-fed poets write formulaically? Non-scientific generalities, but humorous. What is obvious to me is that children grow in the womb hearing bed language as well. They recognize their parents from their voices. More to the point was this Bangladeshi poet asking why he should* write in English. He was fortunate enough to be comfortable in three languages as I recall, but had to work harder to convey artistic elements in English, which previously was primarily an academic language for him. I greatly appreciate his "nature" poem about the lonely park bench. An authentic experience translates well into any language. Mary ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:22:15 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Desperately Seeking Joan Retallack MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd be grateful if someone would send me Joan Retallack's email address (by back channel, please). Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:27:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: Brazil Conference / Sunday Breakfast Links Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In answer to Steve Vincent's question about the=20 series "Poetry in a Time of War and Banality,"=20 taking place in Brazil: each participant is=20 making a separate trip to Brazil for readings and=20 discussions. I will be the last visitor (going at=20 the end of this month). R=E9gis Bonvicino does plan=20 to gather the essays written in response to the=20 "proposal" in his magazine, Sibilia, but that=20 will be in Portuguese. As you noted, I have=20 posted R=E9gis Bonvicino's & Alcir P=E9cora's proposal at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog/ and you will also find there a link to Leevi=20 Lehto's very interesting and extended response=20 (in English), taken from his web site: http://www.leevilehto.net/default.asp?a=3D5&b=3D3&c=3D6 If other materials from the series become=20 available in English, I will be sure to post them at the EPC. Charles =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:29:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: is a mother foreign language In-Reply-To: <4be.1153637.31bd9e52@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Not non-scientific in the least. Subject of many studies. The impact of mother-infant language should be on poetry written in babytalk. I think Cioran was talking about poetry that doesn't convey an experience but is. Mark At 12:26 PM 6/11/2006, you wrote: >. . . different from the language used between adults (except in bed) and >tend to be similar in all languages . . . Do bottle-fed poets write >formulaically? > >Non-scientific generalities, but humorous. What is obvious to me is that >children grow in the womb hearing bed language as well. They recognize their >parents from their voices. > >More to the point was this Bangladeshi poet asking why he should* write in >English. He was fortunate enough to be comfortable in three languages as I >recall, but had to work harder to convey artistic elements in English, which >previously was primarily an academic language for him. I >greatly appreciate his >"nature" poem about the lonely park bench. An authentic experience >translates >well into any language. > >Mary > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:01:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Heretical Texts, Vol.2.4: Brian Kim Stefans Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed New from Heretical Texts: WHAT IS SAID TO THE POET CONCERNING FLOWERS by Brian Kim Stefans Factory School. 2006. 148 pages, perfect bound, 6.5x9. $14 / $12 direct order Collecting poems from the past six years, What Is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers is Stefans' most ambitious book to date. Includes the successful chapbooks "The Window Ordered to be Made," "Jai lai For Autocrats" and "Cull." "What Does It Matter?," a chapbook published in England in 2005, is a long sequence that updates Ezra Pound's Hugh Selwyn Mauberley by 100 years, several wars and with a change of neighborhood (London for Williamsburg, Brooklyn). WHAT IS SAID TO THE POET CONCERNING FLOWERS is the fourth book in the second volume of Heretical Texts, an ongoing series brought to you by Factory School. Currently available titles include: Volume One: 1. Dan Featherston, United States 2. Laura Elrick, Fantasies in Permeable Structures 3. Linh Dinh, Borderless Bodies 4. Sarah Menefee, Human Star 5. kari edwards, obedience Volume Two: 1. Diane Ward, Flim-Yoked Scrim 2. Steve Carll, Tracheal Centrifuge 3. Kristin Prevallet, Shadow Evidence Intelligence 4. Brian Kim Stefans, What is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers 5. Carol Mirakove, Mediated Volume 3 (winter 2006) will feature work by Ammiel Alcalay, Catherine Daly, Nick Piombino, Heriberto Yepez, and Meg Hammill. Order direct from Factory School: http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/order.html Also available through Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org/ About Heretical Texts: This series aims to investigate and challenge the assumption that poetry, as art and communication activity, is political. Central to the Heretical Texts mission is a focused imagining of 'political poetry' as a form of public intervention, invention, and invocation that calls on language to call out a public, a people. For more about the Heretical Texts series: http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/index.html For more about this and other Factory School projects: http://www.factoryschool.org Contact: info "at" factoryschool.org [or reply backchannel to this email] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:20:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <448BE084.25798.F7A83DE@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcus Bales wrote: > On 10 Jun 2006 at 17:22, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >>... the semantic distinction between postmodern >>philosophy and postmodern literature, not to mention their bastard >>child in postmodern critical theory. ...< > > Very interesting post, and I suppose useful within the discussion, > but sort of like making careful distinctions between kinds of cargo > cults, isn't it? I guess it depends on what you value in discourse. I find it useful and interesting to try to understand what people are saying when their utterances sound nonsensical. Particularly when they think what they are saying is meaningful. At the same time, using your cargo cults analogy, philosophically speaking I've got more of a beef with the naive metaphysical realism of people like Alan Sokal than I do with a feminist philosopher of science like Lynn Hankinson, although i think both of them have some pretty wacky ideas, i also think both points of view are worth considering and understanding from the context within which they present themselves. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:25:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: george thompson Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mark & List, I also have misgivings about this experiment and the conclusions that Pinker draws from it. Pinker is smart and entertaining, but he is also a Chomsky epigone and an American, which means that he has at least two problems with multilingualism: one is theoretical; the other is cultural. I think that it is generally recognized by linguists that American monolingualism is an anomoly, and not at all the norm. Chomsky's various programs for linguistics tend to dismiss multilingualism as a surface feature, not deep. But in a multilingual Europe or a multilingual India, for example, one can find numerous examples of writers with literary skill in two or more languages. Another example that immediately comes to mind for me is Nabokov. And in Europe for centuries going back to Dante there have been writers who could perform equally well in their vernacular language as well as in Latin, and in India writers who did the same in their vernacular as well as in Sanskrit. There's an entertaining book by Richard Watson, an American novelist as well as a well-known specialist in Cartesian philosophy and Descartes. It's called *The Philosopher's Demise*. It recounts his huge embarrassment as an American academic of enormous reputation in French scholarship. But he was incapable of delivering a paper orally on Descartes in French. His spoken French was unbearable to the French. The book is a chronicle of his failures as a speaker of French, although he has written with greatest erudition about Descartes' French. On the other hand, many very mediocre as well as rather good European scholars of, say, Sanskrit, can switch between a half dozen languages at a conference. But their written articles, in English for reasons of accessibility and distribution, are uniformly atrocious. One of my present, summertime, gigs is editing a Buddhist Sanskrit grammar by a Russian Jewish emigre now in France writing in English. It is not a very pretty sample of multicultural literacy. But in fact such a thing exists far more widely outside the US. How many list members who translate Spanish poetry into English feel that their Spanish is as good as their English? Best, George Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:24:36 -0400 From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) On eagerness of suckling: a small caveat. There are lots of poets who write in languages other than the one that came with mother's milk. Is there an age limit? Armand Schwerner was exclusively francophone until age 9, Reznikoff (I think--I'll stand correction) heard primarily yiddish at home, Codrescu Romanian. How about Celan? I could probably come up with a few more among us moderns. Charles d'Orleans (contemporary of Chaucer) wrote lovely poetry in English during his twelve years in captivity. Somebody else should pick up this list. And there's the question of dialect. Two interesting experiments to try: 1. Have a nursing mother coo to her infant in a language she learned in school. 2. Have said mother coo in different languages, one for the left, one for the right breast. At what point would the milk curdle? And (giggle giggle) the inevitable question: does it work with adults? Anyone remember the Jamie Leigh Curtis role in A Fish Called Wanda? Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:04:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Subject: Sarau Da Academia Series & Globe Theater Concert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Friends: SARAU DA ACADEMIA: A new monthly storytelling and poetry series hosted by Marcelo Carneiro & Flavia Rocha. First reading on June 20, 2006. For more information: sarau@aicinema.com.br Academia Internacional de Cinema is the first digital film school in Brazil. More information at http://www.aicinema.com.br ---->> Benefit Concert for The New Globe Theater Chris Barron, lead singer of the Spin Doctors. Thursday, June 22, 2006 from 7-9 PM. $100 Tickets. Lucas Shoormans Gallery, 508 W. 26th St., #11B, NYC. More information at http://www.newglobe.org/june2006benefit/ ---->> REEL Poets at QPL. June 27, 2006, 6:00 pm, Flushing Queens Public Library, 41-17 Main Street, Queens, NY. Featuring films and readings by Samantha Zighelboim Cheers Ram Devineni Rattapallax Please send future emails to devineni@rattapallax.com for press ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 20:17:14 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: How racism has invaded Canada MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://ender.indymedia.org/?q=node/454 ...try the following sentence from the Globe and Mail's front page on Tuesday, supposedly an eyewitness account of the police arrest operation: "Parked directly outside his ... office was a large, gray, cube-shaped truck and, on the ground nearby, he recognized one of the two brown-skinned young men who had taken possession of the next door rented unit..." Come again? Brown-skinned? What in God's name is this outrageous piece of racism doing on the front page of a major Canadian daily? ... How racism has invaded Canada What is the term 'brown-skinned' doing on the front page of a major Canadian daily? By Robert Fisk - 10 June 2006 http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article754394.ece"> http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13575.htm This has been a good week to be in Canada -- or an awful week, depending on your point of view - to understand just how irretrievably biased and potentially racist the Canadian press has become. For, after the arrest of 17 Canadian Muslims on "terrorism" charges, the Toronto Globe and Mail and, to a slightly lesser extent, the National Post, have indulged in an orgy of finger-pointing that must reduce the chances of any fair trial and, at the same time, sow fear in the hearts of the country's more than 700,000 Muslims. In fact, if I were a Canadian Muslim right now, I'd already be checking the airline timetables for a flight out of town. Or is that the purpose of this press campaign? First, the charges. Even a lawyer for one of the accused has talked of a plot to storm the Parliament in Ottawa, hold MPs hostage and chop off the head of Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Without challenging the "facts" or casting any doubt on their sources -- primarily the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or Canada's leak-dripping Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) -- reporters have told their readers that the 17 were variously planning to blow up Parliament, CSIS's headquarters, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and sundry other targets. Every veiled and chadored Muslim woman relative of the accused has been photographed and their pictures printed, often on front pages. "Home-grown terrorists" has become theme of the month -- even though the "terrorists" have yet to stand trial. They were in receipt of "fertilizers", we were told, which could be turned into explosives. When it emerged that Canadian police officers had already switched the "fertilizers" for a less harmful substance, nobody followed up the implications of this apparent "sting". A Buffalo radio station down in the US even announced that the accused had actually received "explosives". Bingo: Guilty before trial. Of course, the Muslim-bashers have laced this nonsense with the usual pious concern for the rights of the accused. "Before I go on, one disclaimer," purred the Globe and Mail's Margaret Wente. "Nothing has been proved and nobody should rush to judgment." Which, needless to say, Wente then went on to do in the same paragraph. "The exposure of our very own home-grown terrorists, if that's what the men aspired to be, was both predictably shocking and shockingly predictable." And just in case we missed the point of this hypocrisy, Wente ended her column by announcing that "Canada is not exempt from home-grown terrorism". Angry young men are the tinderbox and Islamism is the match. The country will probably have better luck than most at "putting out the fire", she adds. But who, I wonder, is really lighting the match? For a very unpleasant -- albeit initially innocuous -- phrase has now found its way into the papers. The accused 17 -- and, indeed their families and sometimes the country's entire Muslim community -- are now referred to as "Canadian-born". Well, yes, they are Canadian-born. But there's a subtle difference between this and being described as a "Canadian" -- as other citizens of this vast country are in every other context. And the implications are obvious; there are now two types of Canadian citizen: The Canadian-born variety (Muslims) and Canadians (the rest). If this seems finicky, try the following sentence from the Globe and Mail's front page on Tuesday, supposedly an eyewitness account of the police arrest operation: "Parked directly outside his ... office was a large, gray, cube-shaped truck and, on the ground nearby, he recognized one of the two brown-skinned young men who had taken possession of the next door rented unit..." Come again? Brown-skinned? What in God's name is this outrageous piece of racism doing on the front page of a major Canadian daily? What is "brown-skinned" supposed to mean -- if it is not just a revolting attempt to isolate Muslims as the "other" in Canada's highly multicultural society? I notice, for example, that when the paper obsequiously refers to Toronto's police chief and his reportedly brilliant cops, he is not referred to as "white-skinned" (which he most assuredly is). Amid this swamp, Canada's journalists are managing to soften the realities of their country's new military involvement in Afghanistan. More than 2,000 troops are deployed around Kandahar in active military operations against Taleban insurgents. They are taking the place of US troops, who will be transferred to fight even more Muslims insurgents in Iraq. Canada is thus now involved in the Afghan war -- those who doubt this should note the country has already shelled out $1.8bn in "defense spending" in Afghanistan and only $500m in "additional expenditures", including humanitarian assistance and democratic renewal (sic) -- and, by extension, in Iraq. In other words, Canada has gone to war in the Middle East. None of this, according to the Canadian foreign minister, could be the cause of Muslim anger at home, although Jack Hooper -- the CSIS chief who has a lot to learn about the Middle East but talks far too much -- said a few days ago that "we had a high threat profile (in Canada) before Afghanistan. In any event, the presence of Canadians and Canadian forces there has elevated that threat somewhat." I read all this on a flight from Calgary to Ottawa this week, sitting just a row behind Tim Goddard, his wife Sally and daughter Victoria, who were chatting gently and smiling bravely to the crew and fellow passengers. In the cargo hold of our aircraft lay the coffin of Goddard's other daughter, Nichola, the first Canadian woman soldier to be killed in action in Afghanistan. The next day, he scattered sand on Nichola's coffin at Canada's national military cemetery. A heartrending photograph of him appeared in the Post -- but buried away on Page 6. And on the front page? A picture of British policemen standing outside the Bradford home of a Muslim "who may have links to Canada". Allegedly, of course. http://www.independent.co.uk go to top http://www.robert-fisk.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ___ Stay Strong \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" \ "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 18:12:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit long live colonialism ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 22:29:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: FW: Gore and William Kentridge / blog In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ I have a little essay fresh up on my blog which looks at the relationship between Al Gore's, An Inconvenient Truth, and William Kentridge's, Tide Table, a short video now at the San Francisco Museum of Art - both deeply compelling in their own ways. If you scroll down through a few of the Tenderly pieces, you will also get to a brief review of Kara Walker's "Deluge" show at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Comments always appreciated. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Currently home of the Tenderly series, A serial work in progress. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 07:16:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: one of the most AMAZING women alive TOMORROW night in Philadelphia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if you're around the Philly area tomorrow night please come hear Selma James! link: _http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_phillysound_archive.html#115010958569438073_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_phillysound_archive.html#115010958569438073) CAConrad is the author of Deviant Propulsion (Soft Skull Press, 2006) for poem samples from the book go to: _http://CAConrad.blogspot.com_ (http://caconrad.blogspot.com/) "Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restr ained...." --William Blake for PhillySound: NEW POETRY: _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) for CAConrad's tarot services:_ http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com_ (http://lightoflakshmi.blogspot.com/) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 07:49:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <448CA54C.5090800@myuw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable On 11 Jun 2006 at 16:20, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... I find it useful > and interesting to try to understand what people are saying when > their utterances sound nonsensical. Particularly when they think > what they are saying is meaningful.< Sure, that can be interesting, and useful in a sort of narrow way, I guess, but still, cargo cults are cargo cults. > At the same time, using your cargo cults analogy, > philosophically > speaking I've got more of a beef with the naive metaphysical realism > of people like Alan Sokal than I do with a feminist philosopher of > science like Lynn Hankinson, although i think both of them have > some pretty wacky ideas, i also think both points of view are worth > considering and understanding from the context within which they > present themselves.< Considering and understanding pretty wacky points of view from the context within which they present themselves can be useful, I suppose, and no doubt interesting, but, especially when considered from the larger context than that within which they present themselves, pretty wacky is still pretty wacky. In human history there have been all sorts of pretty wacky ideas, but the most common of them may be fairly called examples of "sympathetic magic": sticking pins in dolls to try to hurt other people, or dancing and shouting to scare demons out of sick peoples=B4 bodies, and the like. The notion of testing to see if the idea worked, and if it didn=B4t work, to try something else, seemed more honored in the breach than in the observance, if it was thought of at all. But gradually, through a concatenation of circumstances and a great deal of time and some significant successes, enough people accepted the idea that observing the world, making hypotheses about it, controlling for variables, and then testing those hypotheses, re- examining the variables and the controls for those variables, and modifying those hypotheses and controls, and testing again, worked, that it became a practice generally accepted as worth the time and materials that went into it. Still today, as you point out, most people in what purports to be our scientific society believe an enormous number of things that science holds to be nonsense. It=B4s hard to believe how much junk belief there is out there, and how much of it is based on junk science, and why. Why is easy: it=B4s difficult and expensive to do good science, to hypothesize, control for variables, and design tests that test for the thing one is testing for. But junk science is easy: it=B4s almost as easy as sympathetic magic -- in fact, some of it is no better. The difference between magic and science is that science demands that you should report everything about your test of your hypothesis that you think might make it wrong -- not only what you think is right about it. You must search for, and present as part of your conclusions, other causes that could possibly explain your results, including the things you thought that you've eliminated by controls, or by some other experiment, and how they worked -- to make sure people who are following your work can tell that variables have been eliminated, or at least controlled or accounted for. You have to go into the details that could cast doubt upon your conclusions. It=B4s of the essence that you do the best you can to explain why things didn=B4t turn out the way you thought they would, if they didn=B4t -- even if the variance is pretty small, and why they did, if they did, even if just barely. Not only that, but when you hypothesize, it=B4s not enough to hypothesize within a small ambit; you have not only to explain how your hypothesis and test explains one thing, you have to show how it fits in with other larger hypotheses, and how it throws some light on how those things work, too. The notion of science is to make sure that everyone who may look at your work has every chance to judge your work fairly and justly -- that they have no doubt that your work is designed to investigate what really happens, and not merely argue self-interestedly for a particular result. Contrast this idea with salesmanship. There=B4s a famous example of a salmon-canner who was canning perfectly good salmon, but the flesh of that fish was white instead of the traditional pink. Consumers were not buying it in droves, because they expected canned salmon to be pink. So the white-salmon canner changed the label on his can to include the phrase "Guaranteed not to turn pink in the can", and almost overnight pink salmon was almost unsellable. The pink-salmon canners sued. The white-salmon canner claimed he was telling the truth -- and he was. But the thing he was implying by telling his small truth was not true at all. It=B4s not enough to tell the truth; you have to tell the truth in context. It=B4s not just that the truth will come out, eventually, either - it=B4s not because other people will try to repeat your experiment, and praise you if you were right, or expose you if you were wrong; it=B4s the context in which you were right or wrong that makes an investigation scientific or not. Natural phenomena will agree or disagree with your hypothesis -- but it is the integrity with which you create your controls for variables, and with which you examine your own results before you make your conclusions, an extreme care not to fool yourself, that makes it science instead of cargo- cultishly carving headphones out of coconut shells, and antennae out of wood. The first principle of the scientific method is not to fool yourself, and the second is that you are the easiest person for you to fool, so be very very careful. The best result of the scientific method is that if you are careful not to fool yourself, you won=B4t be trying to figure out how to fool other people. That particular kind of integrity, scientific integrity, the attempt to show how you yourself may be wrong, is the essence of the scientific method. If you put forward results that make sense not only within the context within which they present themselves, but also in the context of how everything else works, and your results shed some small light on how everything else works, you can think of yourself as a scientist. But if you are only interested in pointing at results that make you look good, or that support your conclusions merely within some narrow context, you can think of yourself as a salesman, even if you are talking about literary theory or a philosophical idea, and that's trouble with a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for pool! Postmodernism seems determined to reject the scientific method, though, and turn back to relying on magical thinking. But I'll bet not a single person on this list, however committed to postmodernism, would give up his or her modernist health care plan in favor of a postmodernist one that sneered at medicine in favor of sticking pins in dolls -- not even if that postmodern plan were interesting in the context within which sticking pins in dolls presented itself. Why, I'll bet they all wash their hands after they go to the bathroom, and before they eat, and so on! By golly, I imagine they even pay attention to the expiration dates on their food packages, and even lock up their poisons and guns to keep their children from playing with them. And, no doubt for the most part, obey the traffic laws and have safe sex. I think that says a lot about the context in which postmodernism presents itself. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:08:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcus, Then surely you must appreciate the very friendly debate between Richard Rorty and Daniel C. Dennett? Theirs is an authentic dialectic, but I'm wondering how it relates to poetics. Will this discussion about postmodernism enable us to write "bright" or "edgier" poetry? Is poetry held up to scientific method or postmodern jargon? Both of these employ a philosophical stance which denies they are intrinsically philosophical. I enjoy reading and writing poetry that includes elements from both perspectives, not their "truthiness." Mary ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 06:08:52 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Recently on Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Brit Po , New Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Lisa Robertson The Men Copyright on MySpace why your work may belong to Rupert Murdoch What is bad poetry, Robert Pinsky? My Spaceship an anthology for out-of-this-world cats Against professionalism: Going to poetry for knowledge of the world Olson and Althusser ideology and the soul Proprioception as dialectics Proprioception Charles Olson’s other major manifesto On 750,000 weblog visitors A shout out to Zoe Strauss, Sylvia Legris, Catherine Wagner, and Robin Kemp The sexual politics of Projective Verse reading DuPlessis reading Olson Charles Olson, Objectivism & T.S. Eliot Breathing the syllable in Charles Olson’s “Projective Verse” Eliot Weinberger on New Directions Timothy Yu, Pamela Lu and Asian-American anthologies http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:17:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Any one who is interested may pick up my essay "Questions of Accent," which was first published in "The Exquisite Corpse." The essay is also on the web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~sibel/poetry/murat_nemet_nejat.html Ciao, Murat In a message dated 6/10/2006 11:24:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mark Weiss writes: >On eagerness of suckling: a small caveat. There are lots of poets >who write in languages other than the one that came with mother's >milk. Is there an age limit? Armand Schwerner was exclusively >francophone until age 9, Reznikoff (I think--I'll stand correction) >heard primarily yiddish at home, Codrescu Romanian. How about Celan? >I could probably come up with a few more among us moderns. Charles >d'Orleans (contemporary of Chaucer) wrote lovely poetry in English >during his twelve years in captivity. > >Somebody else should pick up this list. > >And there's the question of dialect. > >Two interesting experiments to try: >1. Have a nursing mother coo to her infant in a language she learned in school. >2. Have said mother coo in different languages, one for the left, one >for the right breast. > >At what point would the milk curdle? > >And (giggle giggle) the inevitable question: does it work with adults? > >Anyone remember the Jamie Leigh Curtis role in A Fish Called Wanda? > >Mark > >At 10:41 AM 6/10/2006, you wrote: >>"the plan is the body" Robert Creeley >> >>"Emile Cioran, himself a crosser of linguistic boundaries (he was a Rumanian >>who wrote exquisite French prose), comments: "In a borrowed language, you >>are conscious of words; they exist not in you but outside of you. >>This interval >>between yourself and your means of expression explains why it is difficult, >>even impossible, to be a poet in another language besides your own. How >>extract a substance from words that are not rooted in you? The >>newcomer lives on >>the surface of language; he cannot, in a tongue belatedly learned, translate >>that subterranean agony from which poetry issues." >> >>Hard evidence of a sort for this view comes from the cognitive sciences. >>Steven Pinker in The Language Instinct mentions an ingenious experiment that >>shows how early infants get attuned to their mother tongue. It was >>found that >>"four-day-old French babies suck harder to hear French >>than Russian, and pick >>up their sucking more when a tape changes from Russian to French than from >>French to Russian." This positive response to the mother-tongue is >>due to the >>fact that "the melody of mothers' speech carries through their bodies and is >>audible in the womb. The babies still prefer French when the speech is >>electronically filtered so that the consonant and vowel sounds >>are muffled and only >>the melody comes through. But they are indifferent when the tapes are played >>backwards, which preserves the vowels and some of the consonants >>but distorts >>the melody. Nor does the effect prove the inherent beauty of the French >>language: nonFrench infants do not prefer French, and French infants do not >>distinguish Italian from English." The inference is that "The >>infants must have >>learned something about the prosody of French (its melody, stress >>and timing) in >>the womb, or in their first days out of it." >> >>The experiment demonstrates that one is most intimate with the lyric genius >>of one's mother tongue. It follows that poetry written in a language other >>than one's mother-tongue is not likely to be conspicuous for its lyricism." >> >>Translators are exceptional, are they not? >> >>_http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm_ >>(http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm) >> >>Mary > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 07:23:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Betsy Andrews Subject: Poetry + Film, Issue Project Room, Brooklyn, Thursday June 15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ISSUE PROJECT ROOM Thursday, June 15 kristin prevallet curates: WORDS MOVING IMAGES An evening of film and poetry collaborations a showing of films by David Gatten Pooh Kaye Carolyn Monastra and a reading of words by Kristin Prevallet Brenda Coultas David Gatten Betsy Andrews 8:00 p.m., $10 www.issueprojectroom.org Directions Brooklyn-bound F / G trains to Carroll St. 2.5 blocks from stop (between Bond & Nevins) 15 minutes from 2nd Ave. F stop 10 minutes from Metropolitian Ave. G stop __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:30:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <2c2.9037d36.31bec142@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:08, Mary Jo Malo wrote: > Marcus, > Then surely you must appreciate the very friendly debate between > Richard Rorty and Daniel C. Dennett? Theirs is an authentic > dialectic, but I'm wondering how it relates to poetics. Will this > discussion about postmodernism enable us to write "bright" or > "edgier" poetry? Is poetry held up to scientific method or > postmodern jargon? Both of these employ a philosophical stance > which denies they are intrinsically philosophical. I enjoy reading > and writing poetry that includes elements from both perspectives, > not their "truthiness." Uh oh -- be very careful, here, Mary, or Alison will start calling YOU names, too! Your question here is not only a very good one, it's very close to mine: what does postmodernism, or the postmodern condition, however the advocates and defenders of postmodernism define those terms, get us in terms of poetry and poetics? What are the characteristics of postmodern poetry, or even poetry in response to the postmodern condition, that distinguishes it from other poetry? I think the notion that there is any such thing as "postmodernism" or "the postmodern condition" is a bunch of hooey because I think human beings have not changed in any significant way in response to any "turn" or "event" before which human beings were "modern" and after which they are "postmodern". I also think that there is no general, or western, cultural awareness of any such turn or event, not even among the people who claim there is. I think postmodernism is a pretty good marketing campaign. Further, I think that if there were no "postmodernism" and it was posited on the internet as we know it today the advocates and defenders of that "postmodernism" would be derided as trolls and flamers -- trolls for the merely preposterous provocation of their claims, and flamers for their behavior. This is not to say that there aren't very smart people doing very good work -- far from it -- but good work can't be postmodern by definition, can it, since the point of postmodernism is that there isn't any good work, there is only self-interested salesmanship of one agenda, or bias, or another. Within a world view that holds that there can be no good work, only self-interested salesmanship, what do you expect to find? Why, an enormous amount of self-interested salesmanship, of course -- what else? Once again, Faulconbridge, in Shakespeare's _King John_, demonstrates the postmodernist view 400 years before anyone thought to call it "postmodern": Mad world! mad kings! mad composition! William Shakespeare (King John) Faulconbridge: Mad world! mad kings! mad composition! John, to stop Arthur's title in the whole, Hath willingly departed with a part, And France, whose armour conscience buckled on, Whom zeal and charity brought to the field As God's own soldier, rounded in the ear With that same purpose-changer, that sly devil, That broker, that still breaks the pate of faith, That daily break-vow, he that wins of all, Of kings, of beggars, old men, young men, maids, Who, having no external thing to lose But the word 'maid,' cheats the poor maid of that, That smooth-faced gentleman, tickling Commodity, Commodity, the bias of the world, The world, who of itself is peised well, Made to run even upon even ground, Till this advantage, this vile-drawing bias, This sway of motion, this Commodity, Makes it take head from all indifferency, From all direction, purpose, course, intent: And this same bias, this Commodity, This bawd, this broker, this all-changing word, Clapp'd on the outward eye of fickle France, Hath drawn him from his own determined aid, From a resolved and honourable war, To a most base and vile-concluded peace. And why rail I on this Commodity? But for because he hath not woo'd me yet: Not that I have the power to clutch my hand, When his fair angels would salute my palm; But for my hand, as unattempted yet, Like a poor beggar, raileth on the rich. Well, whiles I am a beggar, I will rail And say there is no sin but to be rich; And being rich, my virtue then shall be To say there is no vice but beggary. Since kings break faith upon commodity, Gain, be my lord, for I will worship thee. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:48:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 6-12-06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OPEN READINGS Carnegie Art Center 240 Goundry St., North Tonawanda (meets monthly on the second Wednesday) Featured: Don Scheller and Gunilla Kester Wednesday, June 14, 7 P.M. 10 slots for open readers Rust Belt Books 202 Allen Street, Buffalo (meets the monthly on the third Sunday) Featured: Lew Bowman Sunday, June 18, 7 P.M. 10 slots for open readers NOTICE: THE JUNE OPEN READING AT THE BOOK CORNER HAS BEEN CANCELLED. THIS IS PERMANENT. THE THIRD THURSDAY OPEN READING IS MOVING TO LOCKPORT FOR GOOD IN JULY. NEXT READING: Lockport Brewhaus 112 Chestnut St., Lockport (meets the monthly on the third Thursday) Faetured: TBA Thursday, July 20 10 Slots for open readers SPOKEN ARTS RADIO, with host Sarah Campbell A joint production of Just Buffalo Literary Center and WBFO 88.7 FM Airs Sundays during Weekend Edition at 8:35 a.m. and Mondays during Morning Edition at 6:35 A.M. & 8:35 a.m. Upcoming Features: July 9 & 10, Olga Karman All shows are now available for download on our website, including features= on John Ashbery, Paul Auster, Lyn Hejinian, Ray Bradbury and more... http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/sar.shtml LITERARY BUFFALO TALKING LEAVES...BOOKS Jacinta Bunnell Workshop and book signing with author of the coloring book: Girls Will be Boys Will Be Girls Will Be=E2=80=A6(Soft Skull Press) Friday, June 16, at 5 pm. The event is free and open to the public; it will be held at our Main Stree= t location. JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. Call fo= r details. UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:59:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Bredie Subject: Drew Gardner and Corina Copp @ McNally Robinson Books NYC, this Wednesday, 7PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All, Though summer in NYC seems to be pulling its punches so far, summer poetry is showing no such restraint. We are starting up the Vacation House season with two readers who will heat the late spring damp out of your bones. Please come join us at the McNally Roninson Bookstore, 50 Prince st. b/t Lafayette and Mulberry, at 7PM this Wednesday [6/14/06] for Drew Gardner and Corina Copp. Corina Copp hails from Lawrence, KS; Boulder, CO; and New Orleans, LA. She is most recently the author of Play Air (Belladonna* Books, 2005), and the e-book, Carpeted (Faux Press, 2004). Her poems and reviews have appeared or are forthcoming from Fence, The Germ, The Poetry Project Newsletter, Pom2,and Magazine Cypress. She is the Monday Night Reading Series Coordinator at the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church, and lives in Brooklyn. Drew Gardner is the author of Sugar Pill (Krupskaya 2002) and Petroleum Hat (Roof 2005). He lives in New York City, where he edits Snare magazine and teaches workshops at St. Mark's Poetry Project. He conducts the Poetics Orchestra, an ensemble featuring poetry and structured improvisation. His weblog, Overlap, was started in 2003. See you there, Cheers N http://vacationhouse.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:35:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: WORDS MOVING IMAGES June 15, NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thursday, June 15 WORDS MOVING IMAGES An evening of film and poetry collaborations A showing of film by: David Gatten Pooh Kaye Carolyn Monastra and a reading of words by: Kristin Prevallet Brenda Coultas David Gatten Betsy Andrews =A0 8:00 p.m., $10 =A0 -------------------ISSUE Project Room 400 Carroll Street (between=A0 Bond & Nevins) on the Gowanus Canal 718-330-0313 info@issueprojectroom.org =A0 Directions to the Issue Project Room, Brooklyn, NY =A0 Brooklyn-bound F / G trains to Carroll St. =A0 2.5 blocks from stop (between Bond & Nevins) =A0 15 minutes from 2nd Ave. F stop =A0 _______________________________________________ =A0 Issueprojectroom-news mailing list =A0 Issueprojectroom-news@issueprojectroom.org =A0 http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/issueprojectroom-news www.issueprojectroom.org=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:02:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: postsomethingorother MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On June 12, Marcus Bales wrote: "I think the notion that there is any such thing as "postmodernism" or=20 "the postmodern condition" is a bunch of hooey because I think human=20 beings have not changed in any significant way in response to any=20 "turn" or "event" before which human beings were "modern" and after=20 which they are "postmodern". I also think that there is no general,=20 or western, cultural awareness of any such turn or event, not even=20 among the people who claim there is. I think postmodernism is a=20 pretty good marketing campaign. Further, I think that if there were=20 no "postmodernism" and it was posited on the internet as we know it=20 today the advocates and defenders of that "postmodernism" would be=20 derided as trolls and flamers -- trolls for the merely preposterous=20 provocation of their claims, and flamers for their behavior." =20 I have not been reading and studying the subject of Postmodernism long = enough to have become expert in the topic. =20 Too, I have benefited from the views expressed here on the list, both = from the pointers to textbooks and from the attempts at explanations of = the contextual and emotional constructs of what might be called = postmodern, or in the case of one text "...what is postmodern."=20 M.Klages work: "An Introductioin to Postmodernism," easily accessed on = GOOGLE, was most helpful in putting some dimensions on the label (though = I confess to not having been totally, as of yet, convinced she is = accurate in all of her assumptions). And David Harvey's work, "The = Condition of Postmodernity" offered additional help in defining some of = the parameters for the topic. Here though, I have difficulty in the = reading; the work strikes me as academic in its excessive use of the = language. I have the urge to want to edit the material down to its = essences and end up with a solidly written 30 page expository. =20 All that said, I confess thus far to sharing Marcus Bales view: "...the = postmodern condition is a bunch of hooey..." I'll continue to read...I'm off to L.Hutcheon's work next...perhaps to = change my views, perhaps not.=20 Alex =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:10:39 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Week at Ann Margaret Bogle blog 6/12/06 Comments: cc: AMBogle@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://annbogle.blogspot.com 2 reprinted short stories: "Texas Was Better" from Submodern Fiction and "My Crush on Daniel Ortega" from Washington Review. Ad- (L.) and -ad (Gr.): a list of words containing "ad" in my weblog. And more "spebunk," a neologism meaning "story that is probably true." ANN BOGLE ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:23:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen G Cope Subject: ESSAY PRESS ANNOUNCEMENT MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline To Poetics Poeple: ANNOUNCING ESSAY PRESS: Essay Press is a new imprint dedicated to publishing innovative, explorative, and culturally relevant essays in book form. We are interested in publishing single essays that are too long to be easily published in journals or magazines, but too short to be considered book-length by most publishers. We are looking for essays that have something to say?essays that both demand and deserve to stand alone. We particularly welcome work that extends or challenges the formal protocols of the nonfiction essay?including, but not limited to, lyric essays or prose poems, experimental biography and/or autobiography, innovative approaches to journalism, memoir (anti-memoir), experimental historiography, formally innovative manifesots, political tracts, and/or aphoristic writing. Essay Press is edited by Eula Biss, Stephen Cope, and Catherine Taylor. We are writers who do not share a single cohesive aesthetic, but rather a dedication to publishing work that might not otherwise be published. We intend to produce an eclectic catalogue that will include work by a few well-known writers as well as many new or emerging authors. We are presently accepting submissions of essays ranging from roughly 40 to 80 pages. Our submission guidelines are posted on our website at www.essaypress.org. Through that website, you can also join or mailing list to receive announcements of forthcoming books and other news. Or, you may send submissions and/or queries to: Essay Press 131 N. Congress Street Athens, OH 45701 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:37:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: postmodernism and science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Mon, 12 Jun 2006, Marcus Bales wrote: > On 11 Jun 2006 at 16:20, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > ... I find it useful > > and interesting to try to understand what people are saying when > > their utterances sound nonsensical. Particularly when they think > > what they are saying is meaningful.< >=20 > Sure, that can be interesting, and useful in a sort of narrow way, I > guess, but still, cargo cults are cargo cults. > > In human history there have been all sorts of pretty wacky ideas, but > the most common of them may be fairly called examples of "sympathetic > magic": sticking pins in dolls to try to hurt other people, or > dancing and shouting to scare demons out of sick peoples=C2=B4 bodies, an= d > the like. The notion of testing to see if the idea worked, and if it > didn=C2=B4t work, to try something else, seemed more honored in the breac= h > than in the observance, if it was thought of at all. I think that's a pretty common, and generally untenable, viewpoint. I don't= want to get too far off on a tangent, but re: this particular subject, that is so-called "sympathetic magic," I highly recommend everyone read Ludwig Wittgenstein's "Remarks on Frazier's Golden Bough." Which, If memory serves= , is reprinted in the collection of his works entitled "Philosophical Occasions"= and that any decent university library should have a copy of. > The first principle of the scientific method is not to fool yourself, > and the second is that you are the easiest person for you to fool, so > be very very careful. The best result of the scientific method is > that if you are careful not to fool yourself, you won=C2=B4t be trying to > figure out how to fool other people. That particular kind of > integrity, scientific integrity, the attempt to show how you yourself > may be wrong, is the essence of the scientific method. If you put > forward results that make sense not only within the context within > which they present themselves, but also in the context of how > everything else works, and your results shed some small light on how > everything else works, you can think of yourself as a scientist. But > if you are only interested in pointing at results that make you look > good, or that support your conclusions merely within some narrow > context, you can think of yourself as a salesman, even if you are > talking about literary theory or a philosophical idea, and that's > trouble with a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for > pool! That's also a very common, and ultimately I think unsupportable view. What = I'd like to suggest, since you seem like a reasonable person committed to a cer= tain philosophical skepticism about what Michael Shermer has dubbed "Weird Belie= fs" is that your view of science as you've just explained it is also a cargo-cu= lt. That's not to say it's not an interesting, and ultimately laudable idea, wi= th the ultimate goal of explaining the unprecedented success of science in the world since the enlightenment. Part of the problem is that scientific progr= ess doesn't really happen the way you've just described. Without going in to to= o much detail, it's obvious from examining the history of science that scienc= e has proceeded not gradually but more along the lines of what Thomas Kuhn descri= bed in "the structure of scientific revolutions." That is, periods of relative stability with scientist's working within an accepted paradigm punctuated b= y periods when paradigms shift and there is a great deal of uncertainty with = many members of the scientific community trying to save old theories while other= s try to promote any old thing that comes along simply because of it's newness. T= he virtue of the scientific community and scientific inquiry in the abstract i= s that it is a stabilizing force that tends over time to accept the best, mos= t complete set of propositions that explain the broadest set of the available evidence. But this is a complicated topic that people (not postmodernists, = mind you) write doctoral disserations about, and in any case i'm rapidly approac= hing my level of incompetence in talking about it already. I would highly recomm= end some books though, not just the Kuhn I already mentioned, but also Arthur F= ine's "The Shaky Game" and Paul Feyerabends "Against Method" as well as this link discussing the "Duhem-Quine Thesis" also known as "confirmation holism":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_holism > Postmodernism seems determined to reject the scientific method, > though, and turn back to relying on magical thinking. But I'll bet > not a single person on this list, however committed to postmodernism, > would give up his or her modernist health care plan in favor of a > postmodernist one that sneered at medicine in favor of sticking pins > in dolls -- not even if that postmodern plan were interesting in the > context within which sticking pins in dolls presented itself. You're absolutely right, but you're also tilting at windmills. Which is why= , as I said before, it makes good practical sense to take some time to understan= d what people are saying when they are saying things that sound nonsensical t= o you. Then you're not likely to make statements like this that in fact expressions popular in the cargo cult you belong to. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:54:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <448D4235.32144.14E021C7@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Mon, 12 Jun 2006, Marcus Bales wrote: > I think the notion that there is any such thing as "postmodernism" or > "the postmodern condition" is a bunch of hooey because I think human > beings have not changed in any significant way in response to any > "turn" or "event" before which human beings were "modern" and after > which they are "postmodern". I also think that there is no general, > or western, cultural awareness of any such turn or event, not even > among the people who claim there is. I think postmodernism is a > pretty good marketing campaign. Further, I think that if there were > no "postmodernism" and it was posited on the internet as we know it > today the advocates and defenders of that "postmodernism" would be > derided as trolls and flamers -- trolls for the merely preposterous > provocation of their claims, and flamers for their behavior. This is the point I was trying to make with my previous post about getting the semantics right. You're conflating "postmodern" literature--which, if anything, is a gross misnomer of a very old literary tendency, I think first evidenced by the preacher of Ecclesiastes--with comments about the "postmodern condition," which, in all fairness, is something that's pretty exclusively a phenomena that happened among the political left in France after the events of May 68 failed to result in a Marxist revolution. Of course, out of that, there was some interesting work done, not the least of which being the deconstructive method of explication du texte, foucault's historical method, and baudrillard's hyperreality. All of which present us with different ways of looking at the world, which is valuable. The only really unfortunate thing to happen as a result of both the rise in frequency of postmodern literature after world war ii--largely because writing became a profession rather than a trade and writer's became more aware of academic criticism than they had been in previous generations--and the introduction of post-structuralist semiotic theory to the English speaking world (and completely out of context given that most of the work that lead up to it and situated it within its proper context was for some time afterwards largely untranslated), is that in the United States, and to a lesser extent Great Britain, there has been an explosion of jargon fueled criticism masquerading as philosophy which takes as its subject anything under the sun and is largely vacuous and built on a network of bad logic and appeals to authority. If you understand that about the topic, then you'll see why saying things like: > This is not to say that there aren't very smart people doing very > good work -- far from it -- but good work can't be postmodern by > definition, can it, since the point of postmodernism is that there > isn't any good work, there is only self-interested salesmanship of > one agenda, or bias, or another. > > Within a world view that holds that there can be no good work, only > self-interested salesmanship, what do you expect to find? Why, an > enormous amount of self-interested salesmanship, of course -- what > else? necessarily misses the target, because the postmodernism you're describing doesn't really exist, and you're not going to find anyone but the dimmest of lights who would hold to such a feeble position. Put another way, Postmodernism is not an ideology in the sense that you are describing it, and more to the point, many of the things that are labelled postmodern have little or no relation to eachother beyond the need of various person's pursuing tenure to publish as much gibberish as possible in order to secure their mediocre teaching careers. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:03:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sandra Subject: 1913 prizes online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline cheris...1913 prizes now online! * The 1913 PRIZE: For a series of work (verbal and/or visual, 25 pages max.) to be featured in 1913 a journal of forms, issue 3, with a critical introduction. Winner also receives $100 and two copies of the journal. All contest entrants will receive a copy of 1913 a journal of forms, issue 3. $10 entry fee * *1913 is now accepting entries through September 13, 2006 & The ROZANOVA PRIZE: For a collaborative and/or visual book, to be published in a beautiful, perfect-bound edition by 1913 Press. Winner also receives standard royalties contract and 25 copies of the book. All contest entrants will receive a copy of the winning book. $20 entry fee * *1913 is now accepting entries through September 13, 2006 Multiple entries for both prizes are acceptable, but must be sent under separate cover to: 1913 Press/1913 a journal of forms Box 9654 Hollins University Roanoke, Virginia 24020 or Submit via Email: To submit via email, pay the entry fee using the button for the contest of your choice on 1913's website: http://www.journal1913.org/prizes.html Once you receive a confirmation from PayPal, forward the confirmation to editrice@journal1913.org with your submission attached. Please submit attachments in either Microsoft Word, RTF, or PDF format. Email the editrice@journal1913.org with any questions. -- http://www.journal1913.org http://www.1913press.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:31:41 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: announcing - poetics.ca #6 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Poetics.ca #6 (finally!) now on-line As an attempt to discuss the range of contemporary practice in modern poetry, we are pleased to announce the sixth issue of Poetics.ca (www.poetics.ca). The sixth issue features: -- A Bridge to Naridive: The Poetry of Andrew Suknaski by Kemeny Babineau -- Modern Fiction & The Decay of History: bpNICHOL'S the true eventual story of billy the kid by carl peters -- Interview with Souvankham Thammavongsa by Soraya Peerbaye -- Writing a Long Poem for a Very Long Time by Ken Norris -- the stone-boat heart: letters to Andrew Suknaski by rob mclennan Please visit Poetics.ca and send us your thoughts. Stephen Brockwell and rob mclennan, editors Vivian Vavassis, (new) managing editor Roland Prevost, (new) web designer ========================= -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:33:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Cope Subject: Weinberger contact? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline Might anyone be willing and able to send backchannel a contact address for Eliot Weinberger? Thanks in advance, Stephen Cope stephen.cope@drake.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:26:32 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Artists and Poets in Dialogue In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The "Livres d'Artistes: Artists and Poets in Dialogue" show at the New York Public Library is amazing. It's a cornucopia for the eyes to see all those paintings, prints, drawings by Picasso, Miro, Delaunay, and others, next to poems poets with whom those artists collaborated: Tzara, Char, Michaux, Mallarme, Apollinaire, Breton, Desnos, and others. For more info, see http://www.nypl.org/press/2006/frenchbookart.cfm. The show will be up till August 19. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Haas Bianchi Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 10:55 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: ACM poetry magazine Chicago Benefit Dear Friends of Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com WHEN: Monday, June 12, 7pm on WHERE: The Hideout, 1354West Wabansia, www.hideoutchicago.com I am attaching a link to a reading and benefit that is being hosted by ACM and Poetry Magazine. I would urge all of you to attend if you can it features Chicago poets John Beer, Robyn Schiff, Dan Beachy-Quick, Simone Muench, Peter Markus, Chris Glomski Thanks for Supporting Chicago Poetry Regards Raymond L Bianchi Editor Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:51:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: [silence] Gy=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=F6rgy?= Ligeti died in Vienna at the age of 83 Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Begin forwarded message: > From: Ralph Lichtensteiger > Date: June 12, 2006 1:46:40 PM CDT > To: silence@list.mail.virginia.edu > Subject: [silence] Gy=F6rgy Ligeti died in Vienna at the age of 83 > > dear all, > > sad news re LIGETI > > Schott Music mourns for Gy=F6rgy Ligeti > On Monday morning, the Austrian-Hungarian composer Gy=F6rgy Ligeti =20 > died in Vienna at the age of 83 after suffering from a serious =20 > illness. With him, we have lost one of the most effective and =20 > potent composers of the 20th century. ... > > more.... > > http://www.lichtensteiger.de/diary.html > > > best, > ralph li ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:33:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060610110336.053656c8@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, Mark -- Celan's "mother" tongue was the tongue his mother =20 preferred to speak to hiom -- & that was German; his father, the holz =20= makler in town, spoke more yiddish -- but Clean had a major problem =20 with his father. It is also Celan who claimed that indeed one could =20 not write poetry except in the mother tongue =97 but from him I read =20 that more psychically laden than as a simple statement on poetics. He =20= felt he needed to write in his mother's tongue which was also the =20 language of his mother's murderers. Pierre On Jun 10, 2006, at 11:24 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > On eagerness of suckling: a small caveat. There are lots of poets =20 > who write in languages other than the one that came with mother's =20 > milk. Is there an age limit? Armand Schwerner was exclusively =20 > francophone until age 9, Reznikoff (I think--I'll stand correction) =20= > heard primarily yiddish at home, Codrescu Romanian. How about =20 > Celan? I could probably come up with a few more among us moderns. =20 > Charles d'Orleans (contemporary of Chaucer) wrote lovely poetry in =20 > English during his twelve years in captivity. > > Somebody else should pick up this list. > > And there's the question of dialect. > > Two interesting experiments to try: > 1. Have a nursing mother coo to her infant in a language she =20 > learned in school. > 2. Have said mother coo in different languages, one for the left, =20 > one for the right breast. > > At what point would the milk curdle? > > And (giggle giggle) the inevitable question: does it work with adults? > > Anyone remember the Jamie Leigh Curtis role in A Fish Called Wanda? > > Mark > > At 10:41 AM 6/10/2006, you wrote: >> "the plan is the body" Robert Creeley >> >> "Emile Cioran, himself a crosser of linguistic boundaries (he was =20 >> a Rumanian >> who wrote exquisite French prose), comments: "In a borrowed =20 >> language, you >> are conscious of words; they exist not in you but outside of you. =20 >> This interval >> between yourself and your means of expression explains why it is =20 >> difficult, >> even impossible, to be a poet in another language besides your =20 >> own. How >> extract a substance from words that are not rooted in you? The =20 >> newcomer lives on >> the surface of language; he cannot, in a tongue belatedly =20 >> learned, translate >> that subterranean agony from which poetry issues." >> >> Hard evidence of a sort for this view comes from the cognitive =20 >> sciences. >> Steven Pinker in The Language Instinct mentions an ingenious =20 >> experiment that >> shows how early infants get attuned to their mother tongue. It =20 >> was found that >> "four-day-old French babies suck harder to hear French than =20 >> Russian, and pick >> up their sucking more when a tape changes from Russian to French =20 >> than from >> French to Russian." This positive response to the mother-tongue =20 >> is due to the >> fact that "the melody of mothers' speech carries through their =20 >> bodies and is >> audible in the womb. The babies still prefer French when the =20 >> speech is >> electronically filtered so that the consonant and vowel sounds =20 >> are muffled and only >> the melody comes through. But they are indifferent when the tapes =20= >> are played >> backwards, which preserves the vowels and some of the consonants =20 >> but distorts >> the melody. Nor does the effect prove the inherent beauty of the =20 >> French >> language: nonFrench infants do not prefer French, and French =20 >> infants do not >> distinguish Italian from English." The inference is that "The =20 >> infants must have >> learned something about the prosody of French (its melody, stress =20= >> and timing) in >> the womb, or in their first days out of it." >> >> The experiment demonstrates that one is most intimate with the =20 >> lyric genius >> of one's mother tongue. It follows that poetry written in a =20 >> language other >> than one's mother-tongue is not likely to be conspicuous for its =20 >> lyricism." >> >> Translators are exceptional, are they not? >> >> _http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm_ >> (http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm) >> >> Mary =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Blasphemy is a victimless crime." -- a t-shirt sent to Salman Rushdie in the days of the Satanic Verses fatwa. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 Euro cell: 011 33 6 79 368 446 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:34:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) In-Reply-To: <37e.4816ffb.31bc3408@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit lawdie, lawd, & here I always thought of myself as something of a lyric poet... but with English my fourth language & me unable to write in the mother tongue, I must be in deep trouble... pierre On Jun 10, 2006, at 10:41 AM, Mary Jo Malo wrote: > > > The experiment demonstrates that one is most intimate with the > lyric genius > of one's mother tongue. It follows that poetry written in a > language other > than one's mother-tongue is not likely to be conspicuous for its > lyricism." > > Translators are exceptional, are they not? > > _http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm_ > (http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm) > > Mary ============================================== "Blasphemy is a victimless crime." -- a t-shirt sent to Salman Rushdie in the days of the Satanic Verses fatwa. ============================================== Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 Euro cell: 011 33 6 79 368 446 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ========================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:42:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) In-Reply-To: <33BB9D8A-07EF-43EC-BDCE-B5F188FCD255@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Didn't he also write poetry in French, or was that just Rilke. At 03:33 PM 6/12/2006, you wrote: >Well, Mark -- Celan's "mother" tongue was the tongue his mother >preferred to speak to hiom -- & that was German; his father, the holz >makler in town, spoke more yiddish -- but Clean had a major problem >with his father. It is also Celan who claimed that indeed one could >not write poetry except in the mother tongue =97 but from him I read >that more psychically laden than as a simple statement on poetics. He >felt he needed to write in his mother's tongue which was also the >language of his mother's murderers. > >Pierre >On Jun 10, 2006, at 11:24 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >>On eagerness of suckling: a small caveat. There are lots of poets >>who write in languages other than the one that came with mother's >>milk. Is there an age limit? Armand Schwerner was exclusively >>francophone until age 9, Reznikoff (I think--I'll stand correction) >>heard primarily yiddish at home, Codrescu Romanian. How about >>Celan? I could probably come up with a few more among us moderns. >>Charles d'Orleans (contemporary of Chaucer) wrote lovely poetry in >>English during his twelve years in captivity. >> >>Somebody else should pick up this list. >> >>And there's the question of dialect. >> >>Two interesting experiments to try: >>1. Have a nursing mother coo to her infant in a language she >>learned in school. >>2. Have said mother coo in different languages, one for the left, >>one for the right breast. >> >>At what point would the milk curdle? >> >>And (giggle giggle) the inevitable question: does it work with adults? >> >>Anyone remember the Jamie Leigh Curtis role in A Fish Called Wanda? >> >>Mark >> >>At 10:41 AM 6/10/2006, you wrote: >>>"the plan is the body" Robert Creeley >>> >>>"Emile Cioran, himself a crosser of linguistic boundaries (he was >>>a Rumanian >>>who wrote exquisite French prose), comments: "In a borrowed >>>language, you >>>are conscious of words; they exist not in you but outside of you. >>>This interval >>>between yourself and your means of expression explains why it is >>>difficult, >>>even impossible, to be a poet in another language besides your >>>own. How >>>extract a substance from words that are not rooted in you? The >>>newcomer lives on >>>the surface of language; he cannot, in a tongue belatedly >>>learned, translate >>>that subterranean agony from which poetry issues." >>> >>>Hard evidence of a sort for this view comes from the cognitive >>>sciences. >>>Steven Pinker in The Language Instinct mentions an ingenious >>>experiment that >>>shows how early infants get attuned to their mother tongue. It >>>was found that >>>"four-day-old French babies suck harder to hear French than >>>Russian, and pick >>>up their sucking more when a tape changes from Russian to French >>>than from >>>French to Russian." This positive response to the mother-tongue >>>is due to the >>>fact that "the melody of mothers' speech carries through their >>>bodies and is >>>audible in the womb. The babies still prefer French when the >>>speech is >>>electronically filtered so that the consonant and vowel sounds >>>are muffled and only >>>the melody comes through. But they are indifferent when the tapes >>>are played >>>backwards, which preserves the vowels and some of the consonants >>>but distorts >>>the melody. Nor does the effect prove the inherent beauty of the >>>French >>>language: nonFrench infants do not prefer French, and French >>>infants do not >>>distinguish Italian from English." The inference is that "The >>>infants must have >>>learned something about the prosody of French (its melody, stress >>>and timing) in >>>the womb, or in their first days out of it." >>> >>>The experiment demonstrates that one is most intimate with the >>>lyric genius >>>of one's mother tongue. It follows that poetry written in a >>>language other >>>than one's mother-tongue is not likely to be conspicuous for its >>>lyricism." >>> >>>Translators are exceptional, are they not? >>> >>>_http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm_ >>>(http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm) >>> >>>Mary > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >"Blasphemy is a victimless crime." -- a t-shirt sent to Salman >Rushdie in the days of the Satanic Verses fatwa. >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Pierre Joris >244 Elm Street >Albany NY 12202 >h: 518 426 0433 >c: 518 225 7123 >o: 518 442 40 85 >Euro cell: 011 33 6 79 368 446 >email: joris@albany.edu >http://pierrejoris.com >Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:47:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) In-Reply-To: <0A98B9F0-1576-465D-B41F-C9AC28901612@mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And also: Nicaraguans Salomon de la Selva and Joaquin Pasos both wrote poems in English (though of course nearly all their work is in Spanish). Julia de Burgos wrote a single poem, her last, in English. And think of all the African poets, from Rabearivelo on, writing in colonial languages whose "mother tongues" were likely to have been indigenous languages (or, in the case of Breyten Breytenbach, a creole language like Afrikaans). (Africa?? When does that vast continent ever appear on this list????) Or Egyptian (thus African) poets like Georges Henein and Georges Schehade, both of whom wrote in French. William Carlos Williams's "mother's milk tongue" was Spanish, yet he never wrote in that language as far as I know. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:41:47 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Caledonia Blockade: Goodwill brings violent response at Caledonia. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Goodwill brings violent response at Caledonia. By Sam Hammond http://www.communist-party-sk.ca/pub/Podcasts/93F7AA70-E39E-43B5-A7AB-8F072A78344F_files/caledonia.mp3" Caledonia Blockade http://www.communist-party-sk.ca/pub/Podcasts/Podcasts.html ___ Stay Strong \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" \ "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 17:43:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: naming the nameless/locul nimanui? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone offer a report on the Romanian Cultural Institute's book party for "Naming the n Nameless/ Locul Nimanui", Sat. night in NYC. Thank you. Gerald S. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:07:30 -0400 Reply-To: kevinkillian@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "kevinkillian@earthlink.net" Subject: What We Saw at the Weldon Kees Retrospective MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Was anyone on the list at the Weldon Kees event last night at the Cinematheque here in San Francisco=3F Last year guest curator Jenni Olson= turned an elegaic tribute to a dead friend, Mark Finch, into a feature documentary called THE JOY OF LIFE, which spoke in a spare and moving way about people drawn to the Golden Gate Bridge, like Finch, to take their ow= n lives=2E In the course of her research, she said, she came across the lif= e, work and of course the disappearance of Weldon Kees, whose car was found o= n the north end of the bridge on July 18, 1955, and that she became taken with Kees' work as both poet and filmmaker in the early San Francisco film= avant-garde=2E (Not much mention made of his painting=2E) Perhaos only J= enni Olson, with her myriad connections to a hundred archives, could have pulle= d together such a program, which was billed as the first retrospective of Kees' fugitive film work=2E Since he completed only one film, the program was supplemented by other shorts on which he had contribute his many talents=2E James Broughton's classic ADVENTURES OF JIMMY (1950) began the show, a nice print with Kees=92= barrelhouse piano score=2E Broughton was in full Buster Keaton-Chaplin mo= de with this short, in which he leaves a rundown cabin in the wilderness and goes to San Francisco to find a wife, or possibly a boyfriend, or one of each perhaps=2E It's crazy coy, and Broughton's not a great silent film actor, but it's cute and the audience lapped it up=2E Olson followed this= up with two of Weldon Kees' so-called "data" films, both from 1952, HAND MOUT= H COORDINATION and APPROACHES AND LEAVETAKINGS, also silent, in grainy black= and white=2E Frankly, these left me a little mystified=2E Why on earth w= here they made=3F In HMC, we watch a harried mother go through an entire day taking care of an adorable little boy who looks to be about 15 months old=97-feeding him, bathing him, putting on his diapers, while four older kids look on from the background and attempt to steal scenes from Baby=2E=20= Kees and Gregory Bateson are sometimes shown in the corners of the apartment, cameras held up to their faces=2E But why=3F The second "anthropological film" was lensed by Kees with a camera hidden in his valise, and documents ordinary Oakland and Berkeley citizens saying hello and goodbye=2E Kees (presumably) supplies some winsome captions for each brief scenelet, some of them lasting but a few seconds=2E In one of the scenes, laid in front of UC Berkeley's Wheeler Hall, an imposing professor= walks across some steps with a brace of burly grad students, and a sharp-eyed member of our audience identified the faculty guy as George M=2E= Stewart, the novelist (STORM) and author of the classic work on California's Loyalty Oath THE YEAR OF THE OATH (1950)=2E HOTEL APEX was screened next, the only completed film Kees signed, a fascinating and beautiful poetic impression of a rundown boarding house badly in need of demolition=2E The camera glides and rises through the ruined space, stopping to dolly in here and there at odd-shaped remnants, = a Dinah Washington poster, a scattering of beer caps, a soaked paperback cop= y of Phoebe Atwood Taylor's 1931 THE CAPE COD MYSTERY=2E We wonder about th= e people who once lived there, how they came to tun out on their old possessions; the HOTEL APEX has some of the mystery of the Marie Celeste=2E= =20 Time heals everything, folks say, but the displacement of the hotel remains, still, eerily vigorous, nearly a shriek=2E Then we saw a color film, William Heick's THE BRIDGE, on which Kees acted as a cameraman=2E Bizarrely it's a series of impressive Wow! shots of the= Golden Gate Bridge, swamped in fog, glittering in the sun, viewed from a bird's-eye view above, sometimes from the great steel pilings at its base,= while a "movie voice" from the period recites, really skips through, what seems like a LOT of Hart Crane's poem THE BRIDGE=2E We see Kees scurrying= down a steep slope balancing a tripod; it's spooky, the way he seems to risk tumbling into the rough white surf=2E I thought Crane's verse really= beautiful, but you could tell some people were having a hard time followin= g it, especially the way it was enunciated, in these rapidfire "You Are There" rapidfire sub-Gielgudisms=2E Finally the lights came halfway up an= d we listened to a KPFA broadcast of Weldon Kees' own radio show, which he co-hosted with a friend Michael Grieg=2E This episode was recorded shortl= y after Kees' disappearance, and Grieg puzzles it out over the air, playing = a song ("Daybreak Blues") that Kees wrote, and reading one of Kees' longer, most interesting poems, "The Journey=2E" Grieg's got a great voice, like Vincent Price crossed with sandpaper, and he made "The Journey" sound like= a million bucks (funny thing, though, he pronounces "Formica" with a strange accent on the first syllable, as though along the lines of "fornicate=2E") And the grief and bewilderment of Kees' suicide was palpa= ble in this longago radio show from KPFA=2E Very touching=2E I came away fro= m this retrsopective thinking that, despite Dana Gioia, despite Donald Justice, whatever, Weldon Kees deserves all the scrutiny and commentary he=92s been getting=2E Maybe he wasn=92t the world=92s greatest filmmaker= , but we have only these bits and pieces to ponder, like reading fortunes from tea leaves=2E Anything might have happened, and nearly did=2E -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:49:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: Burning Chair ::: Coletti & Szymaszek ::: Friday, June 16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Burning Chair Readings say hey why not tune your ears with John Coletti & Stacy Szymaszek Friday, June 16th, 7:30PM The Fall Café 307 Smith Street btwn. President and Union Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn F/G to Carroll Street As always, FREE. Questions: Call Matt (not The Fall Café) @ 917.478.5682 or e-mail . Note: Please respect our free space at The Fall Café by not bringing in outside food or drink. John Coletti grew up in Santa Rosa, California and Portland, Oregon before moving to New York City twelve years ago. He is the author of Physical Kind (Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs/Boku Books 2005), The New Normalcy (BoogLit 2002), and Street Debris (Fell Swoop 2005), a collaboration with poet Greg Fuchs with whom he also co-edits Open 24 Hours Press. Stacy Szymaszek recently moved from Milwaukee to New York to take the position of Program Coordinator at The Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church. Her book, Emptied of All Ships, is out from Litmus Press. She is a co-editor of Instance Press and editor of Gam: A Survey of Great Lakes Writing, which is always given as a gift. Sections of her long poem in process, hyper glossia, have appeared as a Belladonna chap book, online with Fascicle and in print with The Boston Review. She is also the author of the chapbooks Mutual Aid, Pasolini Poems, Some Mariners and There Were Hostilities. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:59:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: Charles Olson Doc Sunday in SF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sunday, June 18th 7:30pm SF Cinematheque and The Poetry Center at SFSU present POLIS IS THIS: Charles Olson and the Persistence of Place Director Henry Ferrini In Person Preceded by two experimental video shorts from 1968 featuring readings by Olson and Robert Creeley Yerba Buena Center for the Arts 701 Mission at Third Street San Francisco 415-978-ARTS (to reserve tickets) From postman's son to Postmodernism's founding father, and from schooner fisherman to scholar, this hulking six-foot eight Harvard-educated historian drifts back to the hard-luck New England fishing port of his boyhood summers after the 1956 close of Black Mountain College. There, surrounded by the cruel poverties and sorrows of a town at war with the sea for over 300 years, Charles Olson creates a unified and transcendent vision of a besieged people caught between tradition and modernity. Featuring John Malkovich, Amiri Baraka, Jonathan Williams, Anne Waldman, Diane di Prima, Ed Sanders, Pete Seeger, and others, "Polis is This" investigates the seminal avant-garde poet, Charles Olson, in conjunction with his enduring connection to his place and origin of inspiration, Gloucester, Massachusetts. ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:05:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <20060611074519.83257.qmail@web53912.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11-Jun-06, at 12:45 AM, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: > Just curious as to whether this issue was resolved on > this list. I think it's important to speak Spanish, > personally, Well, yes, but the impersonal is not to be ignored, either. George H. Bowering Fears a symmetrical oyster. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:04:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: The Last Open Mic at the Lark St. Bookshop, Albany NY Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed the Poetry Motel Foundation =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0presents The Last Third Thursday Open Mic for Poets at the Lark Street Bookshop 215 Lark Street, Albany, NY (near State St.) The bookstore is closing in July & after 2 years in this great space=20 the open mic will move on to a new venue.=A0Where, you ask?=A0Come to = the=20 open mic on Thursday & find out. Thursday, June 15, 2006=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 7:00 sign up; 7:30 start Featured Poet:=A0Stacey Stump $3.00 donation.=A0 Your host, once again & for the last time here, Dan Wilcox. a sample of Stacey=92s work, untitled: Discreet dinner at the Golden Rod I stare at you until your phone goes off Chinese noodles aren=92t in your Atkin=92s So you glare as I grab the duck sauce Young brothers fight at the next table Over the last fortune cookie Mom and Dad talk about the holidays And you=92re still checking your voicemail Our separate cars wait for us At this place outside town =93We=92re in a hurry=94 you tell the waiter While I pretend not to care =93I love this place,=94 you say Finally looking me in the eyes I start to feel special again It=92s just you and me in the world Like a fool I fell for you And your =93professional integrity=94 I fulfilled your every fantasy And let you wreck my car =93No kissing in the morning=94 you=92d say Even though I brushed my teeth While you straightened your tie And I pretended not to care I lived to pick up your dry cleaning You liked to slap me until I screamed =93Let=92s pretend we=92re in love tonight=94 you said When I blew my paycheck on the Crowne Plaza One night I got to fight back Choking you until you were blue I loved you the most in that moment Helpless and afraid you reached out to me ## =A0 =A0 =A0 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:55:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit George, Not sure what you're point is. The voice, by its nature, is personal. Every uttered word a political act, one could, I think, easily argue. It take lots of mettle to raise one's voice loud enough to be heard. I thought I'd throw my two cents, as they say, reckoning I might have some idea related what I thought, but might've been mistaken, was a debate on the issue of language Stateside and to what I see as an absurd debate on all sides--and mostly because lots on both sides of this debate simply aren't equipt with the kind of practical knowledge and therefore persuasive language to actually do something productive (in political sense). But I said, lots--and not all. And my post, as you saw, was simply a query. A polite one at that, which is not always so easy given the lengths some posters go to, well... AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 02:29:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: TEXTUAL POTIONS :: harry k. stammer's "every, beyond't nothing" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *PERSISTENCIA* is proud to announce the release of *every, beyond't nothing*by harry k. stammer. From the editor's note: *[Stammer's] poetry is never still. It is always restless, always branching out and growing back in on itself. It is special. Perhaps, even, it is one of a kind. Harry's textual potions are post-Language excursions which test the firmament of syntax. Just as his (equally ambitious) vispo experiments prod =96 and sometimes outright mock =96 the link between word and image, s= o his poetry defies the relationship between language and thought. Stammer's unusual mind-to-page transcriptions attempt to redefine writing as a more free and organic process. * ** From the chapbook: *two toes two weeks one toe three fingers forced coat pocket cup shaking bush search back stretched shoes toes up (8am by) arms wrapped [out at evening in by] knee boots black to red jacket drawn around "=BFcambio, es?" 'tending parking sitting bars lot twist'd two toe left side shoe off reflecting glass backed (in) car it car "it's nothing, now, not me, no" walk cross set end street where't: back shortly tv screen opens "weight like" arrive implied "open'd clouds over" //dropped popsicle sitting back bars shoe off left knee right knee over it's such foot on foot on calf "common reasons why people" failed (get up) no! shoes stretching up toes fingered can't modern walkway sleeping in't * & *"out by heat" overhang served in hostile (remote) where two blocks away meet mistake shaped limited by indistinct sight agreeing sinking (just kneeling) shadow canopy end fingertips scratching agree decided yard lines "meter?" identify individual disused "it's only an impression," away distant (way) slab'd gray to grayer angle to bus pole "the news stands'n the way" redraw the line point threadlike quiescent "just because you, that hair" nails over bricks slowly (just lines) colored gray less white against red ordered have'd bright winging "just because you, short pants" held there * This publication is an electronic chapbook. It can be found for review and download without cost here .* Best, PR Primeau, Manager-in-Chief PERSISTENCIA*PRESS http://persistenciapress.tripod.com *http://www.freewebs.com/persistenciapress/stammer_ebn.pdf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:11:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: listen to ::Kevin Thurston's 'Hesitation Conversation' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit listen to :: Kevin Thurston's 'Hesitation Conversation' for the ie reading series at www.narrowhouserecordings.com available now:: - Rod Smith 'Fear the Sky - Laura Elrick, Heather Fuller, Carol Mirakove Kristin Prevallet, and Deborah Richards Women in the Avant Garde - Anselm Berrigan 'Pictures for Private Devotion - Buck Downs Pontiac Fever - Ryan Schneider 'Awful Hissing Skexies . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 06:29:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... What I'd like to suggest ... is that your view of > science as you've just explained it is also a cargo-cult.< If every view is nothing but another cargo cult, then there's nothing to recommend the choice of any view over any other view. That means there's nothing to recommend your assertion that my view is a cargo cult - it=B4s nothing more than your bias for your own point of view, and my bias for my own point of view is just as valid as yours. Where do we go from here, Jason? Pistols for two and champagne for one? What possible benefits accrue from the view that all opinions are equal, equally valid, equally good? On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... scientific progress doesn't really happen the way you've just > described. ... > science has proceeded not gradually but ... periods of relative > stability with scientists working within an accepted paradigm > punctuated by periods when paradigms shift and there is a great > deal of uncertainty with many members of the scientific community > trying to save old theories while others try to promote any old > thing that comes along simply because of it's newness.<< That's like saying that internal combustion engines don't work by containing an explosive mixture of fuel and air within a cylinder that allows a piston to stroke up and down within that compartment in a regular cycle, but instead that cars work by pressing on the accelerator and brake while steering. You've deliberately changed the context and the meanings of the terms without notice. My description of the scientific method doesn=B4t conflict with your notion that science proceeds in periods of relative stability punctuated by paradigm shifts. Sometimes the work as I described it is work within a period of stability and sometimes it is work within a paradigm shift, just as sometimes the car is going straight and sometimes it is cornering. But without a scientific method such as I=B4ve described, the car doesn=B4t move at all, because the engine isn=B4= t working. It may be that we're both right, in other words: that I have accurately described how to do science and you've accurately described how people do their jobs and play politics in those jobs. Men went to their graves calling Pasteur a fool and a fraud because they saw science as a job the politics of which are more important than anything else. But if science is really just an old boys' club and nothing really works, if it's just the politics of one biased group out-playing those with some other prejudice, how do you explain the workings of anything? Shouldn't in that case a magic spell work just as well as a car to get you from place to place? What brand of magic carpet do you use to get to work? On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > The virtue of the scientific community and scientific inquiry in > the abstract is that it is a stabilizing force that tends over time > to accept the best, most complete set of propositions that explain > the broadest set of the available evidence.< Wait a minute -- evidence? What's that to postmodernism, or to a postmodernist? There's no such thing as evidence in the postmodern view, is there? Isn't every assertion just as good as every other assertion? How can there be anything even resembling "best most complete set of propositions that explain" anything, when both "best" and "most complete" would necessarily privilege one view over others, and privileging any view over any other view is anathema? On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... [I]t makes good practical sense to take some time to > understand what people are saying when they are saying things that > sound nonsensical to you. Then you're not likely to make statements > like this that in fact expressions popular in the cargo cult you > belong to. Once again, if every view is nothing better than a cargo cult, if all views worked just as well as any other view, how do you account for any changes in human history, starting with fire and the wheel? Raw food is just as good as cooked; cold is just as good as warm; dragging a travois is just as good as rolling along with a wheel, wife-beating is just as good as not beating -- for a postmodernist there is nothing to choose between them: travois, wheel; fire, no fire; beat or don't beat; it's all good. There can be no victims and no criminals, no right and wrong, for that matter, if you hold every view to be just another cargo cult, to be just as good, just as valid, as any other. There is no basis on which to judge any act to be criminal or wrong from a postmodern view. The best a postmodernist can do is accept whatever condition he or she was born into, its biases, prejudices, and agenda. The most thorough postmodernists, it turns out, are the people who are least reflective about whether his or her own biases, prejudices, and agenda are worthy or even justifiable. Postmodernism is, ultimately, a retreat into a gated community! Postmodernism is "I=B4ve got mine, Jack." On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... many of the things that are labelled postmodern have > little or no relation to each other beyond the need of > various person's pursuing tenure to publish as much > gibberish as possible in order to secure their > mediocre teaching careers.< Just so; and how is that summary significantly different from what I said, viz.: > > ... good work can't be postmodern by > > definition, can it, since the point of postmodernism is that > > there isn't any good work, there is only self-interested > > salesmanship of one agenda, or bias, or another. > > Within a world view that holds that there can be no good work, > > only self-interested salesmanship, what do you expect to find? > > Why, an enormous amount of self-interested salesmanship, of > > course -- what else? We seem to be in violent agreement. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 21:46:46 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: robert lane Subject: malleable jangle online again In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just when you thought that you'd had enough excitement with the resurection Australian Football, and all that, along comes the very much anticipated return of that poetry journal: Malleable Jangle. "I told you so," yes - yes after a rather too long recess we're back. This is the return issue, no 9 Winter. It includes new poetry from Doug Draime, Richard Fein, Lorin Ford, Ricky Garni, Marthe Reed, Laurence W. Thomas, Christian Zorka, and an article by Giles Goodland on collage in poetry. So go to it and have a look around, it's at: http://www.malleablejangle.netfirms.com/ All the best, and good luck in Germany. Robert Lane. online poetry journal malleablejangle the poetry of Robert Lane deja vu workshops Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:06:23 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: FW: Gore and William Kentridge / blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Stephen, I haven't seen the Gore film (and I'm not sure that I want to, it probably won't tell me anything I don't know). But I am a very big fan of William Kentridge, and have seen several of his works, including that one at MOMA. I like immensely what you say about his work, and I think you are very accurate about its power. This seems very right to me: " One senses that the very charcoal strokes he makes for the drawings are a way of digging and scraping deeper and deeper into his subject matter until he arrives at a certain sense of truth. I suspect it's the sensuality of that process that makes me trust the work - the video as an artifact becomes an imaginative kind of a social and human fact." You might be interested in a review I did of an opera he directed (The Return of Ulysses) which featured some more of his beautiful animation - for me, an extraordinarily moving production (you have to scroll down through the Robert le Page, unless that interests you as well) - it's at http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com/2004/10/miaf-beggars-opera-and-return-of.html All best A -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:06:44 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "I don't see why, as I get the feeling here, that poets whose first language is English are ashamed of it...This isn't about politics, racism, or the like. It's about love. - Joel" Eileen R. Tabios loves the English language so much that she married it! I'd post a link to one or more of her websites, but that would probably only lead to an off-topic discussion of wine and German shepherds, some of the other things she loves nearly as much as English. Apparently many of the participants in this topic thread are automatically* proficient in other languages, and they've never struggled to artfully express in step-mother tongues. A simple google of the Bangladeshi poet, Kaiser Haq, demonstrates that he has succeeded. It's permissible to love tongues. It's understandable that we love breasts. But it's pathetic to miss the point so persistently. Only infants tend to milk a situation. When a body matures it moves onto other breasts or bottles. Mary ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:26:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Mon. 6/19: The Clash, London Calling Live and Colby, Hicks, and Highfill Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward --------------- Boog City's Classic Albums Live presents our performer's choice album The Clash, London Calling Mon. June 19, 7:00 p.m., $8 Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. NYC with readings from: Todd Colby Sander Hicks Mitch Highfill Then The Clash, London Calling will be performed live in order: 1. London Calling Limp Richard 2. Brand New Cadillac The Leader 3. Jimmy Jazz Dancin Dogs 4. Hateful The Trouble Dolls 5. Rudie Can't Fail Schwervon! Has Hot Pants 6. Spanish Bombs Randi Russo 7. The Right Profile The Trouble Dolls 8. Lost In The Supermarket The Marianne Pillsburys 9. Clampdown Schwervon! Has Hot Pants 10. The Guns Of Brixton The Leader 11. Wrong =B9Em Boyo Bob Kerr 12. Death Or Glory Bob Kerr 13. Koka Kola Randi Russo 14. The Card Cheat Cuomo! 15. Lover=B9s Rock Cuomo! 16. Four Horsemen Matt Lydon 17. I=B9m Not Down Matt Lydon 18. Revolution Rock Dibson T. Hoffweiler 19. Train In Vain Limp Richard Hosted by Boog City editor and publisher David Kirschenbaum Directions: F/V to Second Ave.; F to Delancey St.; J/M/Z to Essex St. Venue is between Stanton and Rivington streets. For further information: 212-842-BOOG(2664), 212-253-0036, editor@boogcity.com, or http://www.cake-shop.com/ *Cuomo! http://cuomogroup.net/ *Dancin Dogs http://www.myspace.com/dancindogs *Sander Hicks http://hicksforsenate.com/ *Mitch Highfill http://www.fauxpress.com/e/highfill.pdf *Dibson T. Hoffweiler http://dibson.net/epk/ *Limp Richard http://www.breedingground.com *Matt Lydon http://www.myspace.com/mattlydon *Randi Russo http://www.randirusso.com/ *Schwervon! Has Hot Pants http://www.olivejuicemusic.com/schwervon.html http://www.myspace.com/schwervon http://www.olivejuicemusic.com/pantsuit.html http://www.myspace.com/tobygoodshank http://tobygoodshank.multiply.com/ *The Leader http://www.myspace.com/theleadernyc http://www.olivejuicemusic.com/theleader.html *The Marianne Pillsburys http://www.mariannepillsbury.com/ *The Trouble Dolls http://www.troubledolls.net/ artist bios are at the end of this email --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 -- bios: *Todd Colby Todd Colby lives, writes, and works in Brooklyn, NY. Tremble & Shine, his most recent book of poems, published by Soft Skull Press, has a dazzling cover painting of a cowboy standing on a bed by his wife, the artist Elizabeth Zechel. *Cuomo! Brooklyn folk/punk act Cuomo! take the ethics of simple song structure and upbeat energy of The Ramones or The Clash, then applies the lyrical sensibilities and songwriting sophistication of Bob Dylan or Simon & Garfunkel. These combined elements have created a stripped down and earthy folk aesthetic steeped with a lyrical quality of honest cynicism and lonely optimism that attempts to bring a refreshingly humble approach to socially conscious and political songwriting. Songwriter Dave Cuomo is also co-founder and editor of Urban Folk, NYC's indy folk magazine. After recently signing with Jersey roots/punk label, Ever Reviled Records, Cuomo! is preparing for the summer release of their debut album Holiday and accompanying national tour in the fall. *Dancin Dogs Dancin Dogs is a celebratory absurdist recreation of seriously frustrated dance funk emerging from two factors: growing up in the disgusting kennels of Wooftown (a pet store in a Connecticut mall), and accidentally being fed fishfood instead of dogfood for 5 months by the idiot managers of Wooftown. No ex-members of anything and very little tolerance of human beings in general. Dogs. *Sander Hicks=20 Sander Hicks is an independent publisher, community organizer, and writer. He founded Soft Skull Press in 1992, and won awards for his work there. He gained serious national attention when he stood up to the Bush machine in 1999 by republishing the controversial Bush bio Fortunate Son. He was featured alongside the book's author, Jim Hatfield, in the Cinemax/HBO documentary "Horns and Halos." He ran Soft Skull until a leave of absence i= n 2001.=20 After a year-long "recharge" time spent working on houses and riding an old motorcycle around Taos, New Mexico, he returned to New York City to start Vox Pop/DKMC, New York City's only community-empowering bookstore, cafe, an= d media machine. Hicks is a playwright, a musician, and a reporter. He grew up in the Washington, DC suburbs, where his teenage hero was Ian MacKaye, of the band Fugazi. His political art-punk band, White Collar Crime, played Warped Tour= , in 2001. As a journalist, Hicks broke new ground on the 9/11 attack for New York Press, Long Island Press, GNN.tv, and "INN World Report" television. He confronts a neo-con and Democrat cover-up regarding 9/11 in his book, The Big Wedding, which has 10,000 copies in print. His next book, Meet the Future Head-On: Rediscovering America's Progressive Mainstream (Vox Pop, Fall '06) will explore "the progressive spirit at the core of the beliefs o= f a majority of Americans." This character is ignored by the "politics of death" practiced by the outdated "dinosaur" political parties. *Mitch Highfill Mitch Highfill is the author of a Dozen Sonnets, Koenig's Sphere (Situation= s Press), and The Blue Dahlia (Detour). He lives in Brooklyn. *Dibson T. Hoffweiler In 2002, Dibs was bored all summer. To calm himself, he wrote some songs to feel better about himself. It didn't work all that well. Back in New York, he stumbled upon the Sidewalk Cafe. He started writing songs with his frien= d Sara, and they formed a band called Dibs and Sara. They were an immediate success. With their newfound wealth, Sara decided she would visit Italy. Dibs decide= d to stay in New York and be a debaucherous fool. After joining numerous othe= r bands (including the likes of Huggabroomstik, New Lease On Life, Secret Salamandar, Cheese On Bread, Urban Barnyard, Dibs On Joie, and others long forgotten) Dibs began pushing his solo material once again, which had significantly improved since 2002. The 2004 release, "More Unsent Letters", was a best seller on Luv-A-Lot Records, and charted on Canadian radio (the radio part is true, I am told). The recording was done in one session with Dashan Coram, Luv-A-Lot CEO and head engineer. Dibs' 2005 release, "Slivers and Bits", blows "More Unsent Letters" into the water, with it's use of more than one instrument. Watch for Dibs, who is putting together a band which will also use more tha= n one instrument, blowing Dibs out of the water, compared to when it was one guy with one instrument. *Robert Kerr=20 Robert Kerr is a playwright and songwriter living in Brooklyn. He wrote the book and lyrics for the short musical "The Sticky-Fingered Fiancee" and the songs for his plays "Kingdom Gone" and "Meet Uncle Casper" as well as his Brothers Grimm adaptations "Bearskin" and "The Juniper Tree." He was also a founding member of the Minneapolis band Alien Detector. *Limp Richard Limp Richard's alter ego, Todd Carlstrom, has played in NYC bands for years (The Domestics, Heroes of the Alamo, Dirty Vicars). Limp and his backing band, the Disappointments (including Limp Richard on guitar, Limp Richard on bass, Limp Richard on drums, and plucky New Jersey native Limp Richard on piano) are currently amassing their first cache of studio recordings, with Major Matt Mason USA engineering. Influences include but are not limited to Brian Jonestown Massacre, PJ Harvey, Spoon, and Matthew Sweet. He may or may not have backup musicians for the Clash show, he hasn'= t decided as of press time. He is managed by the beautiful but criminally pathological Remorah. Look for a myspace page soon with four freshly minted songs!=20 *Matt Lydon Matt Lydon was born and raised in south central New Hampshire. McDonald's. Rollerblades. Trees. He is married and has two beautiful children. He lives in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. *Randi Russo Mixing indie rock, New York garage rock, and singer/songwriter sensibilities, Randi Russo has drawn comparisons to fellow New Yorkers Patt= i Smith, the Velvet Underground, and Sonic Youth for her chaotic and pensive songwriting. Growing up in Long Island, Russo briefly flirted with the violin, piano, an= d amateur turntable scratching until her early adolescence. Concentrating on visual arts in her teens, she eventually went on to study painting in St. Louis, where she began to fully explore the indie rock, grunge, and punk of the early '90s while working at a college radio station. Purchasing an electric guitar at the age of 19, the left-handed Russo found playing right-handed unsatisfactory, eventually playing left-handed but keeping the instrument strung the same as if it were being played right-handed. This technique created a distinctive form of chording and riffing, and Russo soo= n formed her first band with a bassist and a percussionist under the guise of Raizel. The trio recorded one single but disbanded in 1996, leaving Russo t= o hone her craft in relative seclusion until she emerged as a solo artist following her return to New York City in 1999. After about a year on the solo circuit, Russo formed a band and recorded an admittedly chaotic live EP that captured only their second show with Live a= t CBGB's 313 Gallery. Following being approached by Olive Juice Records, Russ= o entered the studio to record her debut, 2001's intensely focused Solar Bipolar. Although it was released at roughly the same time other New York garage-influenced bands were again rising to prominence, Russo and her band stood out from the pack as the vehicle of a tough-minded female singer/songwriter and successfully avoided being categorized as a bandwagon jumper. -- The All Music Guide *Schwervon! Has Hot Pants Schwervon! are Matt Roth and Nan Turner, the swamp rock Sonny & Cher of the Lower East Side. Sharky plays in whimsical trio Pantsuit with Nan, and Toby Goodshank plays in the bands The Moldy Peaches, Double Deuce, The Tri-Lambs= , Christian Pirate Puppets, and solo. They all enjoy hot pants. *The Leader The Leader is a rock indie duo of drums/vibraphone, played by classically trained Sam Lazzara, and bass, played by not classically trained Julie DeLano. They sing in "harmony" and can't get away from writing about these dark political times. *The Marianne Pillsburys Maine native Marianne Pillsbury writes pop-rock songs with cleverly-crafted= , hook-laden melodies and brash, witty, tongue-in-cheek lyrics. Released in 2004, her debut album The Wrong Marianne has received enthusiastic reviews from The New York Times, Time Out New York, The Boston Herald and The San Francisco Chronicle and elicited comparisons to the best work of Liz Phair, Juliana Hatfield and Jill Sobule. The album was named a Top 12 DIY Pick in Performing Songwriter Magazine. The song "Boo Hoo" won Best Alt/Rock Song i= n The Great American Song Contest 2004 and was also selected for inclusion on ROCKRGRL magazine's Discoveries 2005 compilation CD. Her Brooklyn-based band The Marianne Pillsburys bring Marianne's songs to life with a raw punk-pop vibe. Think: Blondie, Elastica, Liz Phair fronting The Rolling Stones, or Juliana Hatfield singing lead for The Pixies. The band has played NYC venues like Mercury Lounge, Luna Lounge, Pianos, Arlene's Grocery and Southpaw, out-of-town venues in Boston, DC, LA and San Francisco, and festivals like M.E.A.N.Y. Fest (Musicians & Emerging Artists in New York), International Pop Overthrow and the Millenium Music Conference. In April 2005, the band released a 3-song demo called "The Hot EP" produced by the fabulously talented Roger Greenawalt (Ben Kweller, Ben Lee). *The Trouble Dolls The Trouble Dolls' roots go back to Kudzu, the cowpunk band formed by singe= r Cheri Leone and guitarist Matty Karas in 1986, when both were attending hig= h school in Huntington Beach, Calif. Three months after their formation, they recorded a demo in the garage studio of reclusive pop genius Emitt Rhodes and sent it to legendary KROQ DJ Rodney Bingenheimer ("Rodney on the ROQ"). Rodney fell in love with the tape, becoming one of Kudzu's first and bigges= t supporters. One song from the demo, "Death Valley Girl," was Rodney's most-requested song for three weeks running -- managing to hold off the Bangles and the reunited Monkees. The song subsequently appeared on the Frontier Records compilation Thangs That Twang. In 1988, Kudzu toured up and down the West Coast as the opening act for Ran= k and File. Later that year, following an appearance on MTV's "The Cutting Edge," they signed to Restless Records. Their Ray Manzarek-produced debut album, California Scheming, came out in 1989, but few copies made it into stores, due to the financial difficulties Restless was undergoing at the time. However, the album did not escape the watchful eyes of lawyers for United Features Syndicate, which syndicated John Neale's comic strip "Kudzu." They promptly issued a cease-and-desist order, effectively putting the last nail in the album's coffin. Although Kudzu had in fact taken their name not from the strip, but from th= e Georgia weed depicted on the cover of R.E.M.'s Murmur, they decided that, rather than fight, they would call it a day. Matty and Cheri moved to New York City at the suggestion of a former schoolmate who offered them work writing and recording music for the Cartoon Network. However, the work proved to be something less than steady, and the pair separated for a time to pursue "real world" careers. Cheri studied film at New York University--while there, she directed the Gutterball video "Trial Separatio= n Blues"--while Matty became the pop music critic for the Asbury Park (N.J.) Press. In the summer of 1995, Matty and Cheri reunited to form the Trouble Dolls with guitarist Michael Taylor, a New Jerseyan who was in an early version o= f Monster Magnet but was unceremoniously fired when he refused to learn any more Hawkwind songs. Michael provided the band's name after discovering trouble dolls, a Latin American charm, on a trip to Guatemala; but he left the band in 1998 to pursue a career in television (Trekkies will recognize him as the writer of some of the best episodes of "Star Trek: Voyager"; the= y will also probably be angry at us for calling them Trekkies). For the first two years of the Trouble Dolls' existence, they were solely a studio group, recording soundtracks for spaghetti-westerns-that-never-were on Matty's cranky four-track and making up bios about themselves that seamlessly blended fact and fiction (a practice which continues to this day). One of their bargain-basement epics found its way to the BMX Bandits, who covered the Trouble Dolls' "Love Isn't for the Lazy" on the B-side of a fan club 45. Another track, "Planet Robin," found its way onto the soundtrack of the 1996 indie film "Ed's Next Move". Still another, "Ice Cream Cow," reached WFMU DJs Belinda and Hova, who continue to play it on their Saturday morning show "Greasy Kid Stuff." On their way to becoming a proper band, the Trouble Dolls recruited Gabe Rhodes, a filmmaker and one-time member of the San Francisco band Scenic Vermont, to play drums after he moved to New York in early 2001. Later that year, they met Pam Weis while sharing a bill with her band, Bionic Finger, at the Ladyfest East festival. When Bionic Finger broke up shortly afterward, Pam became the Trouble Dolls' bassist. The Trouble Dolls play their aphasic melange of prepackaged, post-Madonna chanson and bubblegum at New York City clubs such as Luna Lounge, Arlene Grocery and the Sidewalk Cafe. Their (they can't believe it's their first) EP, I Don't Know Anything at All, was released in June 2002 on their own label, La La La Unlimited, and their debut album will follow later in 2002. They also recently completed the score for the Tony Daniel-directed indie film "Ame rican Bohemian," in which Matty and Cheri have (totally out of character!) cameos as musicians who wear silly clothes and smoke. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:26:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: currents, parallels, individual perspectives, different latitudes, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _http://www.litencyc.com/php/speople.php?rec=true&UID=1974_ (http://www.litencyc.com/php/speople.php?rec=true&UID=1974) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:45:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Heretical Texts, Vol. 2.5: Carol Mirakove Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed New from Heretical Texts: MEDIATED by Carol Mirakove Factory School. 2006. 94 pages, perfect bound, 6.5x9. $12 / $10 direct order In Mediated, Carol Mirakove strives to integrate particular political situations with her emotional states of being. These poems, here in four sections -- Mediated, Fuck the Polis, Propaganda, and Pornography -- celebrate formal experiments towards structural integrity, such that we might realize other worlds as not only possible, but actual. Rodrigo Toscano: "Mediated is incisive, artful, athletic." Jeff Derksen: "the documentary poem Fuck the Polis is a pivotal work." MEDIATED is the fifth book in the second volume of Heretical Texts, an ongoing series brought to you by Factory School. Currently available titles include: Volume One: 1. Dan Featherston, United States 2. Laura Elrick, Fantasies in Permeable Structures 3. Linh Dinh, Borderless Bodies 4. Sarah Menefee, Human Star 5. kari edwards, obedience Volume Two: 1. Diane Ward, Flim-Yoked Scrim 2. Steve Carll, Tracheal Centrifuge 3. Kristin Prevallet, Shadow Evidence Intelligence 4. Brian Kim Stefans, What is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers 5. Carol Mirakove, Mediated Volume 3 (winter 2006) will feature work by Ammiel Alcalay, Catherine Daly, Nick Piombino, Heriberto Yepez, and Meg Hammill. Order direct from Factory School: http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/order.html Also available through Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org/ About Heretical Texts: This series aims to investigate and challenge the assumption that poetry, as art and communication activity, is political. Central to the Heretical Texts mission is a focused imagining of 'political poetry' as a form of public intervention, invention, and invocation that calls on language to call out a public, a people. For more about the Heretical Texts series: http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/index.html For more about this and other Factory School projects: http://www.factoryschool.org Contact: info "at" factoryschool.org [or reply backchannel to this email] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:49:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <448E5B54.7177.192A4CC2@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Marcus Bales wrote: > On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> ... What I'd like to suggest ... is that your view of >> science as you've just explained it is also a cargo-cult.< > > If every view is nothing but another cargo cult, then there's nothing > to recommend the choice of any view over any other view. That means > there's nothing to recommend your assertion that my view is a cargo > cult - it=B4s nothing more than your bias for your own point of view, > and my bias for my own point of view is just as valid as yours. You're right on the money, if I really believed that *every* view was just = another cargo cult. I don't think that. What I was offering for your consid= eration was that the idea that there is a "scientific method" which guarant= ees the success of science is a view which fits your cargo cult analogy. > On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> ... scientific progress doesn't really happen the way you've just >> described. ... >> science has proceeded not gradually but ... periods of relative >> stability with scientists working within an accepted paradigm >> punctuated by periods when paradigms shift and there is a great >> deal of uncertainty with many members of the scientific community >> trying to save old theories while others try to promote any old >> thing that comes along simply because of it's newness.<< > > That's like saying that internal combustion engines don't work by > containing an explosive mixture of fuel and air within a cylinder > that allows a piston to stroke up and down within that compartment in > a regular cycle, but instead that cars work by pressing on the > accelerator and brake while steering. You've deliberately changed the > context and the meanings of the terms without notice. I haven't changed the context at all. You're asserting that science is succ= essful because it has a special method that gives it special access to gene= rating true propositions. I disagree. I think that science is successful, a= nd I think that the history of scientific inquiry bears this out, because o= ver time it generates more inclusive explanations of a body of observed phe= nomena. The mistake in your view isn't in asserting that science works. Tha= t science works is non-controversial. What is problematic is a view that sa= ys science works because it follows the scientific method. Not only are the= re all sorts of examples in the history of science--from special relativity= to natural selection to punctuated equilibrium to uniformitarianism to new= tonian physics to the copernican revolution--of theories and scientific ide= as that came about through a process nothing like the sort of "scientific m= ethod"=20 that gets described in the introduction to high school physics text books a= nd that you've reasserted in your argument, but the very Idea of a scientif= ic method is in fact anti-scientific. In order to be correct, the theory th= at science works because it uses the scientific method various problematic = metaphysical principles, not the least of which being the correspondence th= eory of truth and the general validity of inductive inferrence, have to hol= d, when in fact they don't. So where does that leave us? It leaves us with = the non-controversial fact that science works and all sorts of evidence in = the historical record of how it has gotten to be as good at working as it i= s. In the face of this, we can cling dogmatically to a scientific method, o= r we can be more scientific and take a look at the evidence before us. > But without a scientific method such as > I=B4ve described, the car doesn=B4t move at all, because the engine isn= =B4t > working. Actually, the engine will work whether you have the tools to explain it or = not. If everything in the engine is functioning properly, anyone, regardles= s of their views about what brought about the existence of the engine, will= be able to turn the key and make the motor run. That's not what we're talk= ing about. > It may be that we're both right, in other words: that I have > accurately described how to do science and you've accurately > described how people do their jobs and play politics in those jobs. > Men went to their graves calling Pasteur a fool and a fraud because > they saw science as a job the politics of which are more important > than anything else. But if science is really just an old boys' club > and nothing really works, if it's just the politics of one biased > group out-playing those with some other prejudice, how do you explain > the workings of anything? Shouldn't in that case a magic spell work > just as well as a car to get you from place to place? What brand of > magic carpet do you use to get to work? Nobody is suggesting that science is just an old boys club and that nothing= really works. What's important is that the scientific community, that is, = working scientists and the ultimate arbiters of which theories and paradigm= s are regarded as true in a given period, are compelled by pragmatism and o= bservation and not by social pressure. Which is not to say that there isn't= all sorts of politics that goes on in the scientific community. What makes= science truly so remarkable is that it still works in spite of all the pol= itics that would tend toward stagnation. Which is why it's interesting to s= tudy science sociologically, which is what science studies does. > On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> The virtue of the scientific community and scientific inquiry in >> the abstract is that it is a stabilizing force that tends over time >> to accept the best, most complete set of propositions that explain >> the broadest set of the available evidence.< > > Wait a minute -- evidence? What's that to postmodernism, or to a > postmodernist? There's no such thing as evidence in the postmodern > view, is there? Isn't every assertion just as good as every other > assertion? How can there be anything even resembling "best most > complete set of propositions that explain" anything, when both "best" > and "most complete" would necessarily privilege one view over others, > and privileging any view over any other view is anathema? you keep talking about "the postmodernist" and a "postmodern view" and i ke= ep trying to explain to you that that's tilting at windmills. I've read mos= t of the philosophers that would be included in any list of major postmoder= nists and none of them ascribe to the sort of relativism you're describing.= I've also read extensively among the poets and novelists who would be desc= ribed as "postmodern writers" and I don't think that there's any of that re= lativism there. As for the postmodern american literary critics, well, who = knows what they believe. i doubt that they do themselves. But I sincerely d= oubt there's enough regularity or internal consistency there to be able to = call pin it to "the postmodernists." > On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> ... [I]t makes good practical sense to take some time to >> understand what people are saying when they are saying things that >> sound nonsensical to you. Then you're not likely to make statements >> like this that in fact expressions popular in the cargo cult you >> belong to. > > Once again, if every view is nothing better than a cargo cult, if all > views worked just as well as any other view, how do you account for > any changes in human history, starting with fire and the wheel?=20 I have never said that every view is nothing better than a cargo cult. I ha= ve said that the view you described, naive scientific realism as a reaction= ary metaphysical position taken in response to paranoia that science is som= ehow going to be undone by the creeping terror of the pink nihilists (thats= my term for the people I think you mean by "the postmodernists"--pink nihi= lists has such a nice pejorative ring to it don't you think? you're welcome= to use it yourself if you like), is as much a cargo cult as is any weird g= roup of whacked out french marxists who've lost their faith. More important= ly, scientific realism is problematic as a metaphysical theory because it p= laces limits on the purview of scientific investigation. Arthur Fine, for e= xample, has shown that certain ideas necessary to the development of genera= l relativity require a form of instrumentalism. Which is to say, if Einstei= n=20 felt the way that you do about the scientific method, we'd still be baffled= about all of these anomalies in the motions of the planets and the clocks = on satellites. The clocks on satellites would still work the same way that = they do now, but we wouldn't understand it. That's what science is, a bette= r understanding, not a magical set of formulae that make things work. As su= ch, science is immune from any sort of idiotic criticism of it that the pin= k nihilists might launch. No matter what, humans will be curious, observati= ons will accumulate, and explanatory theories will have to encompass them. = That's how science progresses and it's really in no danger. > On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> ... many of the things that are labelled postmodern have >> little or no relation to each other beyond the need of >> various person's pursuing tenure to publish as much >> gibberish as possible in order to secure their >> mediocre teaching careers.< > > Just so; and how is that summary significantly different from what I > said, viz.: > >>> ... good work can't be postmodern by >>> definition, can it, since the point of postmodernism is that >>> there isn't any good work, there is only self-interested >>> salesmanship of one agenda, or bias, or another. >>> Within a world view that holds that there can be no good work, >>> only self-interested salesmanship, what do you expect to find? >>> Why, an enormous amount of self-interested salesmanship, of >>> course -- what else? It's different because you insist on lumping everything that might be descr= ibed as postmodern in with various dim lights in various humanities departm= ents who can't tell up from down. The landscape is more complex than that. > We seem to be in violent agreement. Indeed. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:11:19 -0700 Reply-To: kalamu@aol.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: afro-mex festival in d.c. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT >>INFO: afro-mex festival in d.c. ============================== http://portal.sre.gob.mx/imw/ Ist International Festival Of Son Jarocho A jorney into African Heritage in Mexico Mexico is a pluri-cultural country, with a majority mestizo population and a considerable number of indigenous peoples. What is not well known is that Mexico also has a strong African heritage dating back over 300 years, that has significantly influenced its culture. Seventy years ago the prestigious anthrolopologist Gonzalo Aguirre Beltrán defined the concept of La Tercera Raíz (The Third Root), in reference to the African heritage in Mexico. The contributions and the existence itself of the Afro-descendents and Afro-mestizo population in Mexico are scarcely known. For this reason, the objective of Afro-Mex is to present to the Washington audience different dimensions of the African cultural heritage in Mexico. Afro-Mex presents various musical expressions of the state of Veracruz where such heritage is notable: the Ist International Festival of Son Jarocho, with 5 popular music groups. The participation of Dr. Antonio García de León and particularly the collection of documentary films Afro-Mex Series by director Rafael Rebollar will offer a broad context of this fundamental but often ignored aspect of the Mexican culture. ############################################# this is e-drum, a listserv providing information of interests to black writers and diverse supporters worldwide. e-drum is moderated by kalamu ya salaam (kalamu@aol.com). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:38:03 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jason: << I've read most of the philosophers that would be included in any list of major postmodernists and none of them ascribe to the sort of relativism you're describing. I've also read extensively among the poets and novelists who would be described as "postmodern writers" and I don't think that there's any of that relativism there. As for the postmodern american literary critics, well, who knows what they believe. i doubt that they do themselves. But I sincerely doubt there's enough regularity or internal consistency there to be able to call pin it to "the postmodernists." >> Who would you see as the postmodenist philosophers and who as the postmodernist literary critics? I confess that I see a certain blurring between the two in what might be called the French Axis -- Derrida, Lacan, Foucault, et alia. My immediate reaction to your distinction between postmodernism in literature/philosopy/criticism was to approve of it, but I'm now beginning to worry a little (and further demonstrate my ignorance) so a simple specification of names would help. And as an aside, would Guy Debord fit into this, and where? (He's in my mind at the moment as I recently discovered that his widow is the author of a major study of the Romany roots of European cant: Alice Becker-Ho, Les Princes du Jargon in 1990. (2nd ed 1993) == The Princes of Slang.) Robin Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:38:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <20060613055551.28202.qmail@web53905.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 12-Jun-06, at 10:55 PM, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: > George, > > Not sure what you're point is. The voice, by its > nature, is personal. What you said was > I think it's important to speak Spanish, > personally, > I just said that in Spanish you can speak personally (say "tu," for example) or not (say "usted", for example), and I said that both are important, the personal and the impersonal. > George Bowering, M.A. Once saw Marianne Moore plain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:54:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <007a01c68f10$20051310$6801a8c0@PC232542321673> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Robin Hamilton wrote: > I confess that I see a certain blurring between the two in what might be > called the French Axis -- Derrida, Lacan, Foucault, et alia. I think that's natural, particularly given the stringent efforts of many of them to blur the line themselves, aided and abetted by people like Richard Rorty. What makes it fuzzy is the fact that the post-structuralists approached philosophy as a form of literary criticism. Which isn't to say that there isn't still a distinction there. > My immediate reaction to your distinction between postmodernism in > literature/philosopy/criticism was to approve of it, but I'm now beginning > to worry a little (and further demonstrate my ignorance) so a simple > specification of names would help. Postmodern Philosophers: Foucault Heidegger De Man Levi-Strauss Lacan Baudrillard Lyotard Gadamer Jameson Eco Postmodern Literary Critics Bataille Julia Kristeva bell hooks Judith Butler Terry Eagleton Edward Said Susan Gubar *Barthes *Derrida adorno Deleuze Guattari Zizek I have to confess that i'm never quite sure where to stick Barthes and Derrida in my own mind. I think they can be read both as critics and as philosophers. As critics, they're brilliant. As philosophers, i'm not sure i understand them. What I think the list illustrates though is that "postmodernism" is more of an umbrella term than it is an ethos. I think very few of the people I listed on either list would describe themselves as "postmodernists" it's their approach, I think, that makes them postmodern, and the things that concern them that make them critics or philosophers. The dividing line, I think, being that philosophers have to be more concerned with the quality of their arguments, whereas critics are freer to express opinions and aesthetic judgments. Again, it gets fuzzy, particularly with people like Derrida and Foucault who engaged in both sorts of activities over their careers. At the same time, though, I think the list of the postmodern critics i've given here is largely the brighter lights, and when i tend to speak desparagingly of "pomo critics" i'm talking more about their imitators and acolytes, none of whom are well known enough to making listing them meaningful, than I am the people I've listed. > > And as an aside, would Guy Debord fit into this, and where? I confess i'm not overly familiar, but i think he's a pretty straight example of a critic. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:13:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jason: Unless I misread you, you seem to=20 misunderstand the scientific method pretty=20 thoroughly. The issue isn't how hypotheses are=20 generated, whether through painstaking labwork or=20 in a eureka moment, but whether they withstand=20 the test of observation. That's why we don't=20 usually give scientific credit to Lucretius, who=20 had the notion that big things were made of=20 smaller things which he called atoms--there was=20 no way to observe whether this was true, and it=20 explained no otherwise inexplicable phenomena. On=20 the other hand, e=3Dmc2, arrived at in a eureka=20 moment precisely as an intuition as to how to=20 solve a much-puzzled over problem about how a=20 bunch of otherwise contradictory phenomena could=20 be comprehended, was immediately and continues to=20 be subjected to the test of observation. In the=20 event that even a single non-conforming instance=20 is found the theory has to be either modified or=20 tossed out. The new solution may also be a=20 product of a eureka moment, but the same process will follow. Mark At 12:49 PM 6/13/2006, you wrote: >On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Marcus Bales wrote: > >>On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >>>... What I'd like to suggest ... is that your view of >>>science as you've just explained it is also a cargo-cult.< >> >>If every view is nothing but another cargo cult, then there's nothing >>to recommend the choice of any view over any other view. That means >>there's nothing to recommend your assertion that my view is a cargo >>cult - it=B4s nothing more than your bias for your own point of view, >>and my bias for my own point of view is just as valid as yours. > >You're right on the money, if I really believed=20 >that *every* view was just another cargo cult. I=20 >don't think that. What I was offering for your=20 >consideration was that the idea that there is a=20 >"scientific method" which guarantees the success=20 >of science is a view which fits your cargo cult analogy. > > >>On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >>>... scientific progress doesn't really happen the way you've just >>>described. ... >>>science has proceeded not gradually but ... periods of relative >>>stability with scientists working within an accepted paradigm >>>punctuated by periods when paradigms shift and there is a great >>>deal of uncertainty with many members of the scientific community >>>trying to save old theories while others try to promote any old >>>thing that comes along simply because of it's newness.<< >> >>That's like saying that internal combustion engines don't work by >>containing an explosive mixture of fuel and air within a cylinder >>that allows a piston to stroke up and down within that compartment in >>a regular cycle, but instead that cars work by pressing on the >>accelerator and brake while steering. You've deliberately changed the >>context and the meanings of the terms without notice. > >I haven't changed the context at all. You're=20 >asserting that science is successful because it=20 >has a special method that gives it special=20 >access to generating true propositions. I=20 >disagree. I think that science is successful,=20 >and I think that the history of scientific=20 >inquiry bears this out, because over time it=20 >generates more inclusive explanations of a body=20 >of observed phenomena. The mistake in your view=20 >isn't in asserting that science works. That=20 >science works is non-controversial. What is=20 >problematic is a view that says science works=20 >because it follows the scientific method. Not=20 >only are there all sorts of examples in the=20 >history of science--from special relativity to=20 >natural selection to punctuated equilibrium to=20 >uniformitarianism to newtonian physics to the=20 >copernican revolution--of theories and=20 >scientific ideas that came about through a=20 >process nothing like the sort of "scientific=20 >method" that gets described in the introduction=20 >to high school physics text books and that=20 >you've reasserted in your argument, but the very=20 >Idea of a scientific method is in fact=20 >anti-scientific. In order to be correct, the=20 >theory that science works because it uses the=20 >scientific method various problematic=20 >metaphysical principles, not the least of which=20 >being the correspondence theory of truth and the=20 >general validity of inductive inferrence, have=20 >to hold, when in fact they don't. So where does=20 >that leave us? It leaves us with the=20 >non-controversial fact that science works and=20 >all sorts of evidence in the historical record=20 >of how it has gotten to be as good at working as=20 >it is. In the face of this, we can cling=20 >dogmatically to a scientific method, or we can=20 >be more scientific and take a look at the evidence before us. > >> But without a scientific method such as >>I=B4ve described, the car doesn=B4t move at all, because the engine isn=B4= t >>working. > >Actually, the engine will work whether you have=20 >the tools to explain it or not. If everything in=20 >the engine is functioning properly, anyone,=20 >regardless of their views about what brought=20 >about the existence of the engine, will be able=20 >to turn the key and make the motor run. That's not what we're talking= about. > > >>It may be that we're both right, in other words: that I have >>accurately described how to do science and you've accurately >>described how people do their jobs and play politics in those jobs. >>Men went to their graves calling Pasteur a fool and a fraud because >>they saw science as a job the politics of which are more important >>than anything else. But if science is really just an old boys' club >>and nothing really works, if it's just the politics of one biased >>group out-playing those with some other prejudice, how do you explain >>the workings of anything? Shouldn't in that case a magic spell work >>just as well as a car to get you from place to place? What brand of >>magic carpet do you use to get to work? > >Nobody is suggesting that science is just an old=20 >boys club and that nothing really works. What's=20 >important is that the scientific community, that=20 >is, working scientists and the ultimate arbiters=20 >of which theories and paradigms are regarded as=20 >true in a given period, are compelled by=20 >pragmatism and observation and not by social=20 >pressure. Which is not to say that there isn't=20 >all sorts of politics that goes on in the=20 >scientific community. What makes science truly=20 >so remarkable is that it still works in spite of=20 >all the politics that would tend toward=20 >stagnation. Which is why it's interesting to=20 >study science sociologically, which is what science studies does. > >>On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >>>The virtue of the scientific community and scientific inquiry in >>>the abstract is that it is a stabilizing force that tends over time >>>to accept the best, most complete set of propositions that explain >>>the broadest set of the available evidence.< >> >>Wait a minute -- evidence? What's that to postmodernism, or to a >>postmodernist? There's no such thing as evidence in the postmodern >>view, is there? Isn't every assertion just as good as every other >>assertion? How can there be anything even resembling "best most >>complete set of propositions that explain" anything, when both "best" >>and "most complete" would necessarily privilege one view over others, >>and privileging any view over any other view is anathema? > >you keep talking about "the postmodernist" and a=20 >"postmodern view" and i keep trying to explain=20 >to you that that's tilting at windmills. I've=20 >read most of the philosophers that would be=20 >included in any list of major postmodernists and=20 >none of them ascribe to the sort of relativism=20 >you're describing. I've also read extensively=20 >among the poets and novelists who would be=20 >described as "postmodern writers" and I don't=20 >think that there's any of that relativism there.=20 >As for the postmodern american literary critics,=20 >well, who knows what they believe. i doubt that=20 >they do themselves. But I sincerely doubt=20 >there's enough regularity or internal=20 >consistency there to be able to call pin it to "the postmodernists." > >>On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >>>... [I]t makes good practical sense to take some time to >>>understand what people are saying when they are saying things that >>>sound nonsensical to you. Then you're not likely to make statements >>>like this that in fact expressions popular in the cargo cult you >>>belong to. >> >>Once again, if every view is nothing better than a cargo cult, if all >>views worked just as well as any other view, how do you account for >>any changes in human history, starting with fire and the wheel? >I have never said that every view is nothing=20 >better than a cargo cult. I have said that the=20 >view you described, naive scientific realism as=20 >a reactionary metaphysical position taken in=20 >response to paranoia that science is somehow=20 >going to be undone by the creeping terror of the=20 >pink nihilists (thats my term for the people I=20 >think you mean by "the postmodernists"--pink=20 >nihilists has such a nice pejorative ring to it=20 >don't you think? you're welcome to use it=20 >yourself if you like), is as much a cargo cult=20 >as is any weird group of whacked out french=20 >marxists who've lost their faith. More=20 >importantly, scientific realism is problematic=20 >as a metaphysical theory because it places=20 >limits on the purview of scientific=20 >investigation. Arthur Fine, for example, has=20 >shown that certain ideas necessary to the=20 >development of general relativity require a form=20 >of instrumentalism. Which is to say, if Einstein=20 >felt the way that you do about the scientific=20 >method, we'd still be baffled about all of these=20 >anomalies in the motions of the planets and the=20 >clocks on satellites. The clocks on satellites=20 >would still work the same way that they do now,=20 >but we wouldn't understand it. That's what=20 >science is, a better understanding, not a=20 >magical set of formulae that make things work.=20 >As such, science is immune from any sort of=20 >idiotic criticism of it that the pink nihilists=20 >might launch. No matter what, humans will be=20 >curious, observations will accumulate, and=20 >explanatory theories will have to encompass=20 >them. That's how science progresses and it's really in no danger. > > >>On 12 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >>>... many of the things that are labelled postmodern have >>>little or no relation to each other beyond the need of >>>various person's pursuing tenure to publish as much >>>gibberish as possible in order to secure their >>>mediocre teaching careers.< >> >>Just so; and how is that summary significantly different from what I >>said, viz.: >> >>>>... good work can't be postmodern by >>>>definition, can it, since the point of postmodernism is that >>>>there isn't any good work, there is only self-interested >>>>salesmanship of one agenda, or bias, or another. >>>>Within a world view that holds that there can be no good work, >>>>only self-interested salesmanship, what do you expect to find? >>>>Why, an enormous amount of self-interested salesmanship, of >>>>course -- what else? >It's different because you insist on lumping=20 >everything that might be described as postmodern=20 >in with various dim lights in various humanities=20 >departments who can't tell up from down. The=20 >landscape is more complex than that. > > >>We seem to be in violent agreement. > >Indeed. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:19:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My blog is back online, after myriad technical difficulties courtesy of MySpace- http://blog.myspace.com/orthodontist Please restore your bookmarks. I know most of you read it on a daily basis. Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:27:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have to say that a list of "postmodern" philosophers that includes Levi-Strauss, Heidegger and Gadamer is working with a notion of the postmodern beyond my powers of comprehension -- while it's alwayas a mistake to conflate postmodernism with poststructuralism, and I won't do that here, I don't know how we wind up with structuralists as postmodernists -- On the matter of Guy Debord -- this brings us to some interesting intellectual history -- while many have remarked the relationship between the emergence of postmodernism (or rather, thinking about the postmodern) and poststructuralism and the polotical events in France of 1968, few in the USA spend much time lookng at what brings these things together in '68 and what preceded that moment -- In particular, Debord, Lyotard and Baudrillard, to name just three, all had associations with the SOCIALISM OR BARABARISM group that included Castoriadis and LeFort, and that was in working contact with the group of activists and thinkers arund C.L.R. James in the USA -- The struggles and work that brought people like Castoriadis and Lyotard to a post-Marxist view was instrumental in the thinking that evolved around the conception of the postmodern -- On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:54:52 +0000, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > > I confess that I see a certain blurring between the two in what might be > > called the French Axis -- Derrida, Lacan, Foucault, et alia. > > I think that's natural, particularly given the stringent efforts of many of them to blur the line themselves, aided and abetted by people like Richard Rorty. What makes it fuzzy is the fact that the post-structuralists approached philosophy as a form of literary criticism. Which isn't to say that there isn't still a distinction there. > > > > My immediate reaction to your distinction between postmodernism in > > literature/philosopy/criticism was to approve of it, but I'm now beginning > > to worry a little (and further demonstrate my ignorance) so a simple > > specification of names would help. > > Postmodern Philosophers: > Foucault > Heidegger > De Man > Levi-Strauss > Lacan > Baudrillard > Lyotard > Gadamer > Jameson > Eco > > > Postmodern Literary Critics > Bataille > Julia Kristeva > bell hooks > Judith Butler > Terry Eagleton > Edward Said > Susan Gubar > *Barthes > *Derrida > adorno > Deleuze > Guattari > Zizek > > I have to confess that i'm never quite sure where to stick Barthes and Derrida in my own mind. I think they can be read both as critics and as philosophers. As critics, they're brilliant. As philosophers, i'm not sure i understand them. What I think the list illustrates though is that "postmodernism" is more of an umbrella term than it is an ethos. I think very few of the people I listed on either list would describe themselves as "postmodernists" it's their approach, I think, that makes them postmodern, and the things that concern them that make them critics or philosophers. The dividing line, I think, being that philosophers have to be more concerned with the quality of their arguments, whereas critics are freer to express opinions and aesthetic judgments. Again, it gets fuzzy, particularly with people like Derrida and Foucault who engaged in both sorts of activities over their careers. > At the same time, though, I think the list of the postmodern critics i've given here is largely the brighter lights, and when i tend to speak desparagingly of "pomo critics" i'm talking more about their imitators and acolytes, none of whom are well known enough to making listing them meaningful, than I am the people I've listed. > > > > > And as an aside, would Guy Debord fit into this, and where? > > I confess i'm not overly familiar, but i think he's a pretty straight example of a critic. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:42:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain and before somebody jumps on me, I was not saying that Heiddeger and Gadamer were structuralists -- That ref was to Levi-Strauss,, to whom Spanish was indeed a foreign language <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 21:02:26 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" >I have to say that a list of "postmodern" philosophers that includes > Levi-Strauss, Heidegger and Gadamer is working with a notion of the > postmodern > beyond my powers of comprehension -- while it's alwayas a mistake to > conflate > postmodernism with poststructuralism, and I won't do that here, I don't > know > how we wind up with structuralists as postmodernists -- Actually, to extend this, I'd agree with Aldon that some of the names Jason lists aren't even +post+structuralist (unless we take anything after Saussure's +Course+ as that). Levi-Strauss and (early) Barthes (Elements of Semiology, Writing Degree Zero) are (in my book) structuralists, the later Barthes post-structuralist, and Derrida somewhere in the debatable lands between post-structuralism and postmodernism. > On the matter of Guy Debord -- this brings us to some interesting > intellectual > history -- while many have remarked the relationship between the emergence > of > postmodernism (or rather, thinking about the postmodern) and > poststructuralism > and the polotical events in France of 1968, few in the USA spend much time > lookng at what brings these things together in '68 and what preceded that > moment As a little bit of not so much intellectual history as tittle-tattle, in the late sixties, across 68, I was publishing in a poetry magazine at Glasgow University called +NiK+ [sic], which towards the end, post-68, ran under the banner: "The revolution will come when the last bourgeoisie is hung from a lamppost by the guts of the last capitalist." I don't know whether this is actually from +The Society of the Spectacle+, but it was definitely a Situationist slogan, and could be found here and there across Paris at the time (though there it was enscribed in French, natch). Robin Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:07:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <00b601c68f24$4b7a2ad0$6801a8c0@PC232542321673> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd also have a hard time considering Theodor Adorno a "postmodernist," or for that matter, Edward Said, author of "Humanism and Democratic Criticism." Or Guy Debord, really. "The revolution will come when the last bourgeoisie is > hung from a > lamppost by the guts of the last capitalist." Actually, a better translation of the slogan is "Humanity won't be happy until the last bureaucrat is hung with the guts of the last capitalist," which itself is a detournement of a statement long attributed to Diderot but actually written by the atheist priest Meslier, "Humanity won't be happy until the last priest is hung with the guts of the last king." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:02:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... What I was offering > for your consideration was that the idea that there is a "scientific > method" which guarantees the success of science is a view which fits > your cargo cult analogy.< But the scientific method doesn't claim to guarantee success; it claims to guarantee nothing, in fact. What it hopes to achieve through systematic honesty and integrity is to fail and fail again and try to find out why. But there is no guarantee of success! Good heavens! Where did you get that? Are you sure we're talking about the same "scientific method", here? On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > I haven't changed the context at all. You're asserting that science > is successful because it has a special method that gives it special > access to generating true propositions.< That's not what I said at all. I said that the scientific method pretty much reduces to honesty and integrity in investigation. Try not to fool yourself, and remember you're the easiest person for you to fool; and if you can stick to that, then you won't be casting about for ways to fool other people into thinking you've got success you haven't got. Failures are as important as successes. The scientific method is about success at devising experiments that test for what you want to test for, and that are transparent so that others can do the same test and get the same result. On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... That science works is non-controversial.< It's controversial to a postmodernist, isn't it, who believes that every view is just as good as any other one -- that magic is just as successful as science, that sex with a virgin will rid you of AIDS, and so forth. On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > What is problematic is a view that says > science works because it follows the scientific method. Not only are > there all sorts of examples in the history of science--from special > relativity to natural selection to punctuated equilibrium to > uniformitarianism to newtonian physics to the copernican > revolution--of theories and scientific ideas that came about through > a process nothing like the sort of "scientific method" > that gets described in the introduction to high school physics text > books and that you've reasserted in your argument,< Actually a good part of the bad science done is done because high school physics texts, or any other texts, in my experience, don't talk about the scientific method: what it is and what it isn't. What it is is a rigorous sort of honesty and integrity, and a willingness to try and fail and try again. > ... but the very Idea > of a scientific method is in fact anti-scientific. In order to be > correct, the theory that science works because it uses the > scientific method various problematic metaphysical principles, not > the least of which being the correspondence theory of truth and the > general validity of inductive inferrence, have to hold, when in fact > they don't.< But they do hold, well enough for our general purposes. We live as if they hold, and others, as well. Not even a postmodernist would be so silly as to test whether turning the steering wheel violently to the left at 70 mph still makes the car flip end for end or not; not even a postmodernist would drive off a cliff to test whether gravity still works; not even a postmodernist would see a car ahead of him on the freeway splash into and stall out in a lake of water and not slow down and go around it, inferring that the same would happen to his car. On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > So where does that leave us? It leaves us with the > non-controversial fact that science works and all sorts of evidence > in the historical record of how it has gotten to be as good at > working as it is. In the face of this, we can cling dogmatically to > a scientific method, or we can be more scientific and take a look at > the evidence before us.< But postmodernists recognize no evidence -- all views are equally valid! Why do you keep arguing both sides of this issue? Marcus Bales wrote: > > But without a scientific method such as > > I=B4ve described, the car doesn=B4t move at all, because the engine > > isn=B4t working. On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Actually, the engine will work whether you have the tools to explain > it or not. If everything in the engine is functioning properly, > anyone, regardless of their views about what brought about the > existence of the engine, will be able to turn the key and make the > motor run.< This is wrenching my metaphorical comment out of context and trying to make it seem as if I meant it literally -- a shabby rhetorical trick. On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Nobody is suggesting that science is just an old boys club and that > nothing really works.< But that's what anyone must mean who says that all views are equal, equally valid, equally good. You cannot reasonably hold that all views are equal and that some views are better than others at making, for example, engines. If there are views that are better than others at making engines, then you have to recognize that as a better view, and that other views of making engines, with eye of newt, say, or postmodern assertion, are just not as good. On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > you keep talking about "the postmodernist" and a "postmodern view" > and i keep trying to explain to you that that's tilting at > windmills. I've read most of the philosophers that would be included > in any list of major postmodernists and none of them ascribe to the > sort of relativism you're describing.< But Alison does; so do several others who've written to support her views; and you seem to, sometimes. On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > I have never said that every view is nothing better than a cargo > cult. I have said that the view you described, naive scientific > realism as a reactionary metaphysical position < That's a very inaccurate characterization of my summary of how science works and what the scientific method is. On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > That's what science is, a better understanding, not a magical set of > formulae that make things work.< Yes, you keep saying the same things I have already said, but in slightly different words, and pretending that you've said something different. I didn't claim "science is ... a magical set of formulae that make things work"; I said that the scientific method is a better understanding of how not to fool yourself. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:36:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Subject: QuickMuse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline www.quickmuse.com QuickMuse is a site where poets battle it out in a fifteen minute race to pen the most compelling text inspired by a thought provoking quote about art. The live event is archived so you can watch each keystroke beside a ticking clock and then discuss the race and poetry in the site's forum. Last week's agon pitted former US Poet Laureate Robert Pinsky against the prolific author Julianna Baggott. This Wednesday will feature Marge Piercy vs. Jonathan Galassi. On June 27th, New Republic poetry editor Glyn Maxwell and Thylias Moss will square off. Then on July 12, it's Carol Muske-Dukes and Kevin Young. All live events happen at 9:30 PM EST (and are archived on the Web site). www.tinyurl.com/lz8rn (NYT article) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:58:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lou Rowan Subject: Golden Handcuffs Review #7 out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Colleagues, A new story by Joseph McElroy, a special Vancouver = writers section with new work by Robin Blaser-- well, you choose:=20 Vancouver (guest edited by Jacqueline Turner): Blaser, Stephen Collis, = Jeff Derksen, Aaron Peck, Meredith Quartermain, Peter Quartermain, = Turner, and Rita Wong & Larissa Lai. And: Elizabeth Alexander, Rachel Tzvia Back, Bill Berkson, R.M. Berry, = Brian Evenson, Mel Freilicher, Jesse Glass, Hank Lazer, Catherine = MacGillivray, McElroy, Rick Moody, Glenn Mott, Toby Olson, Randy Polumbo = (artwork), Michael Rothenberg, Lou Rowan, Judith Skillman, Trey = Strecker, John Taggart, James Tierney, Joel Weinbrot, Norman Weinstein, = Corinna Wycoff, Lidia Yuknavitch. Hound your bookseller, or subscribe (for $12/annum!) at Box 20158, = Seattle, WA 98102. thanks, Lou Hope to see you in New York for the celebratory readings 6/22 and 6/29. = Announcements to follow. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:26:49 +1000 Reply-To: k.zervos@griffith.edu.au Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "kom9os@bigpond.net.au" Subject: web3dart workshop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have just returned from adelaide's experimental art foundation where i spent a week in a workshop with three german web 3d experts, of interactive television vangoughtv fame. i share my experiences for those that are interested. cheers komninos hi whether you think to bugger is good or bad or if you think to be buggered is good or bad by woman or man or furry animal or impersonal plastic, let us celebrate bugger art bugger is the name i give to my computer when it misbehaves when it does not do what i want it to do so bugger is really the name for unachieved dreams, non-physicalised visions ideas that didn't work actualisations that didn't realise solutions that didn't solve the problem the woodshavings on the sculptor's floor the recycle/trash on your desktop the hair at the barber's salon the bits of cellulloid that buried the old film-maker and analog editor the mix that's left in the bowl in the sink the minutes spent waiting for pages to load the hours spent watching frames, scenes render this is bugger data bugger data must be a by-product of art well i'll be buggered! like the lanes and alleyways of the city it is the left over, refuse space where no bugger goes the crumbs of meals already eaten, the smell of wild times already had the footprints and fingerprints of lives the realm of the dodgy the socially morally and culturally buggered but without the bugger data there would be no art if you are not prepared to create bugger data you will never make art komninos monday, on the birthday of the queen of england, 12/6/2006. back at the gold coast lovely warm days chilly nights my own bed and hot shower karaoke and whiskey ah its good to be back home but that does not mean i didn't enjoy myself in adelaide. thanks everyone it was just what i needed, a great injection of artists and art and creative ideas. it gets so mundane when you are teaching full time. but meeting like minds is always inspirational. http://live-wirez.gu.edu.au/Staff/Komninos/web3dart/cityflythrough.html i also managed to get a fly-through of my 3D model of adelaide constructed with words created in anim8or and textured and placed into a 3d world in sketch-up with images of the not-city, the backstreets, lanes and alleyways. sketch up lets you make multiple pages of your model from various angles and perspectives and then outputs the pages as frames in a flythrough movie with smooth transitions as qt and avi. not the interactivity i wanted out of vrml but it is an effective piece none-the-less. my goal will be to get it working in a vrml browser the way i want it displayed (expect emails martin). but for now i am satisfied with my linear temporally fixed 3d animated text poem on the not-city. if anyone wants to exchange art-data/data-art, my mailing address is unit 8/218 marine parade, labrador, 4215 queensland tel: 07 55285836 (+61 7 55285836). i have produced a higher quality dvd of those web qt movies so if anyone wants a copy please send me your mailing address and a bit of your art in exchange. peace,love and global buggery! software is not the solution, it is the problem - komninos software, hardware, nowhere. - karel software, hardware, who cares? - marty t software, hardware, underwear? - annon. komninos Web3D art exhibition on-line at http://www.web3Dart.org/ http://live-wirez.gu.edu.au/Staff/Komninos/web3dart/cityflythrough.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:31:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Golden Handcuffs Review #7 out In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed See you the 29th. At 05:58 PM 6/13/2006, you wrote: >Dear Colleagues, A new story by Joseph McElroy, a special Vancouver >writers section with new work by Robin Blaser-- well, you choose: > >Vancouver (guest edited by Jacqueline Turner): Blaser, Stephen >Collis, Jeff Derksen, Aaron Peck, Meredith Quartermain, Peter >Quartermain, Turner, and Rita Wong & Larissa Lai. > >And: Elizabeth Alexander, Rachel Tzvia Back, Bill Berkson, R.M. >Berry, Brian Evenson, Mel Freilicher, Jesse Glass, Hank Lazer, >Catherine MacGillivray, McElroy, Rick Moody, Glenn Mott, Toby Olson, >Randy Polumbo (artwork), Michael Rothenberg, Lou Rowan, Judith >Skillman, Trey Strecker, John Taggart, James Tierney, Joel Weinbrot, >Norman Weinstein, Corinna Wycoff, Lidia Yuknavitch. > >Hound your bookseller, or subscribe (for $12/annum!) at Box 20158, >Seattle, WA 98102. > >thanks, Lou > >Hope to see you in New York for the celebratory readings 6/22 and >6/29. Announcements to follow. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:04:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Carol Mirakove, Wilco, Martin Amis on Stoning the Devil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New on Stoning the Devil (http://www.adamfieled.blogspot.com): -- an essay on two poems by Carol Mirakove -- a review of JM Coetzee's "Elizabeth Costello" -- a review of Martin Amis's "Money" -- an essay on Wilco's "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" much, much more.... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 23:12:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Subject: Donald Hall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Outspoken New Englander Is New U.S. Poet Laureate www.nytimes.com/2006/06/14/books/14poet.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:30:11 +1000 Reply-To: k.zervos@griffith.edu.au Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "kom9os@bigpond.net.au" Subject: Re: QuickMuse Comments: cc: derekrogerson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thank you derek your posts are always interesting and informative komninos ---- derekrogerson wrote: ============= www.quickmuse.com QuickMuse is a site where poets battle it out in a fifteen minute race to pen the most compelling text inspired by a thought provoking quote about art. The live event is archived so you can watch each keystroke beside a ticking clock and then discuss the race and poetry in the site's forum. Last week's agon pitted former US Poet Laureate Robert Pinsky against the prolific author Julianna Baggott. This Wednesday will feature Marge Piercy vs. Jonathan Galassi. On June 27th, New Republic poetry editor Glyn Maxwell and Thylias Moss will square off. Then on July 12, it's Carol Muske-Dukes and Kevin Young. All live events happen at 9:30 PM EST (and are archived on the Web site). www.tinyurl.com/lz8rn (NYT article) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:41:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <266.b29e25b.31c01264@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Great! If anything, in addition to its flexibility and disposition towards absorbtion of traits belonging to other tongues and cultures, English, among the many languages, is detail-oriented (which many simply aren't--Mandarin is just one example). AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:44:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit George, I get it. Got to forgive me, my stomach has been ill for too many weeks. And always do love to read your thoughtful bits, amigo. Best as ever, AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:46:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: elen Subject: Contact Information for Jonathan VanBallenberghe? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all: If anyone has contact information for Jonathan VanBallenberghe, who may be in Tucson, please backchannel me. We were classmates many years ago and I'd like to connect with him. Thanks kindly, Alena Hairston / "elen gebreab" Oakland, CA alenahairston@comcast.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:52:36 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: seeking carol mirakove MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Poeticists, Does anyone have an email address for Carol Mirakove ? Please backchannel - P.Brown@yahoo.com Thanks, Pam _________________________________________________________________ Blog : http://thedeletions.blogspot.com/ Web site : Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Associate editor : Jacket - http://jacketmagazine.com/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:19:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: L Trent Subject: 21Stars Review call for subs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The editors at 21 Stars Review are looking for new and established writers of poetry and prose, with a focus on new writers. We strive to publish work of the highest quality. We have a strong leaning toward work that uses constraints, innovative meter and form, or carefully executed collage/cut-up techniques. Prose with amazing sentences will be preferred over prose with unamazing sentences. Plotless or intricately-plotted very short fiction (ideally under 1000 words) is also something we enjoy. If you have a particular affinity for or interest in John Ashbery, Jorge Luis Borges, Italo Calvino, Emily Dickinson, Annie Finch, Barbara Guest, Amy Hempel, Paul Hoover, Harry Mathews, Flann O'Brien, Frank O'Hara, Georges Perec, Gilbert Sorrentino, Gertrude Stein, Wallace Stevens, Arthur Sze, or Diane Williams, we would especially like to read your work. http://www.sundress.net/21stars Poetry submissions: poetry21stars at gmail dot com Prose submissions: prose21stars at gmail dot com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:06:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain don't have a clue as to what you mean by saying that English is "detail-oriented" and that some other languages are not -- On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:41:36 +0000, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: > Great! > > If anything, in addition to its flexibility and > disposition towards absorbtion of traits belonging to > other tongues and cultures, English, among the many > languages, is detail-oriented (which many simply > aren't--Mandarin is just one example). > > AJ > > --- > Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:32:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: postmodernism? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Many thanks C. L. Winks--the posting in this discussion i've most enjoyed (for "gallows humor" ho ho!) and found the most informative--as didn't know of Meslier, though knew the quote. "The names change, but the game remains the same" in these slogans through time. Imagine if instead of country club jail cells CEOs faced public hangings upside down and guttings like pigs a la death of Mussolini! Entrails of lobbyists and congresspersons wound around their necks . . . the heads of the President, VP and Cabinet mounted on poles in front of the White House . . . Adding to Aldon L. Nielsen's post, another person who had a great influence on Debord--and close contact and friendship from 1958 until a nasty break, as so often with Debord, in 1962--is Henri Lefebvre, whose 1947 book CRITIQUE OF EVERDAY LIFE was especially important to the Situationists. Lefebvre had been an important Communist Party memeber, expelled when joining with the SI. His 1974 book (translated 1990 and gone through several editions since) THE PRODUCTION OF SPACE contains discussions of Situationist ideas and projects. Like Stalin, whom he obsessively attacks in his films, Denord made sure no one ever made off with his head--systematically purging over and over the Situationists to maintain a tight reign so to speak. Lefebvre also had an influence on the early Baudrillard, who attended Lefebvre's lectures in the late 1960s. >From: Christopher Leland Winks >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: postmodernism? >Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:07:38 -0400 > >I'd also have a hard time considering Theodor Adorno >a "postmodernist," or for that matter, Edward Said, author >of "Humanism and Democratic Criticism." Or Guy Debord, really. > >"The revolution will come when the last bourgeoisie is > > hung from a > > lamppost by the guts of the last capitalist." > >Actually, a better translation of the slogan is "Humanity won't be >happy until the last bureaucrat is hung with the guts of the last >capitalist," which itself is a detournement of a statement long >attributed to Diderot but actually written by the atheist priest >Meslier, "Humanity won't be happy until the last priest is hung with >the guts of the last king." _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:05:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This bit about "influences" on Debord (doubtless with their attendant anxieties) should be qualified: equally important to Guy were folks like the great Danish artist and theorist Asger Jorn, Lettrists Gil Wolman and Ivan Chtcheglov, and of course many of his own comrades during the existence of the Situationist International. I really think the comparison of Debord with Stalin is frivolous in the worst way -- after all, Guy never killed anybody (and when French gutter journalism tried to implicate him in the murder of his friend Gerard Lebovici, he successfully sued for libel). As with Andre Breton, Debord has been dumped on by any number of variously- intentioned critics for his rigor in personal and political relationships. But I say -- let those who have never broken with anyone in their lives cast the first stone. And regarding "obsessive attacks on Stalin" -- substitute "Hitler" for "Stalin" in that phrase and the extent of its hollowness becomes patent. One can never attack dictators enough! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:07:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <448EEF95.29101.17CF823@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Marcus Bales wrote: > On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> ... What I was offering >> for your consideration was that the idea that there is a "scientific >> method" which guarantees the success of science is a view which fits >> your cargo cult analogy.< > > But the scientific method doesn't claim to guarantee success; it > claims to guarantee nothing, in fact. My bad and sorry that's confusing, I didn't mean the success of individual = scientific progress, i was talking about the wider success of science in th= e sense that we have airplanes, sattelite tv, rollercoasters, and canned fo= ods that won't give you boccilism. > On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> I haven't changed the context at all. You're asserting that science >> is successful because it has a special method that gives it special >> access to generating true propositions.< > > That's not what I said at all. I said that the scientific method > pretty much reduces to honesty and integrity in investigation. right, I understood you correctly. the philosophical question I'm raising i= n response to that is how is it that honesty and integrity in investigation= , in other words being objective, leads to propositions whose truth value i= s guaranteed (that is, are objectively true) and which therefore have predi= ctive power, which, lets face it, is what we all expect from something call= ed the law of gravity. There's no doubt in my mind that this is what goes o= n when science works. The question for me is really just a semantic and syn= tactic one, that breaks down to trying to understand the correct analysis o= f phrases like "scientific knowledge" "scientific theory" and "scientific f= act" as they relate to the grammar of more general terms like "truth" "fact= " "real" and "knowledge." But that's a very boring discussion for people who aren't as fascinated by = Wittgenstein as I am, so I think I'll leave that discussion there. > On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> ... That science works is non-controversial.< > > It's controversial to a postmodernist, isn't it, who believes that > every view is just as good as any other one -- that magic is just as > successful as science, that sex with a virgin will rid you of AIDS, > and so forth. I really can't disagree strongly enough with a definition of postmodernism = that reduces to relativism. Certainly it's the case that a relativist could= give a postmodernist account for their relativism, but to my mind postmode= rn philosophy is characterized by it's anti-foundationalism (that follows o= ut of the postmodern reading of Nietzche that begins with Heidegger's pheno= menolog) with respect to metaphysics and epistemology. There are lots of wa= ys to reject that everything grows out of first principles that don't resul= t in the sort of relativism you're describing, and I think that Foucault an= d Sartre, to just name two examples, show a good example of how one can go = about doing that. Which is not to say that I think Existentialism or the po= wer/knowledge issues foucault raises are necessarily correct understandings= of the world, but both are interesting, raise interesting problems, and ar= e not in the least bit relativistic. > But postmodernists recognize no evidence -- all views are equally > valid! Why do you keep arguing both sides of this issue? I'm really not. I'm contesting your conflation of postmodernism with relati= vism. > Marcus Bales wrote: >>> But without a scientific method such as >>> I=B4ve described, the car doesn=B4t move at all, because the engine >>> isn=B4t working. > > On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> Actually, the engine will work whether you have the tools to explain >> it or not. If everything in the engine is functioning properly, >> anyone, regardless of their views about what brought about the >> existence of the engine, will be able to turn the key and make the >> motor run.< > > This is wrenching my metaphorical comment out of context and trying > to make it seem as if I meant it literally -- a shabby rhetorical > trick. Actually I was just trying to be funny. Sorry. > On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> Nobody is suggesting that science is just an old boys club and that >> nothing really works.< > > But that's what anyone must mean who says that all views are equal, > equally valid, equally good. You cannot reasonably hold that all > views are equal and that some views are better than others at making, > for example, engines. If there are views that are better than others > at making engines, then you have to recognize that as a better view, > and that other views of making engines, with eye of newt, say, or > postmodern assertion, are just not as good. > > On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> you keep talking about "the postmodernist" and a "postmodern view" >> and i keep trying to explain to you that that's tilting at >> windmills. I've read most of the philosophers that would be included >> in any list of major postmodernists and none of them ascribe to the >> sort of relativism you're describing.< > > But Alison does; so do several others who've written to support her > views; and you seem to, sometimes. I'm new to the list, and I don't know alison, but if she really holds to th= e views i'll fight her hammer and tongs on that issue, because relativism= =3D!postmodernism and one can certainly be all manner of postmodern without= having to ascribe to a dangerous, self-defeating, and ultimately authorita= rian view like cultural relativism. As for me, I'm a disciple of the later = Wittgenstein and hold that view of the world to be the correct approach to = philosophical issues. To my way of thinking all systems of belief are worth= examining for the grammatical structure of its tenets and to see what is r= eally being said. That doesn't mean that every collection of nonsense that = anybody spews out purporting to "explain everything" has equal merit as reg= ards truth value. Most of the time nonsense is just nonsense. > > On 13 Jun 2006 at 9:49, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> That's what science is, a better understanding, not a magical set of >> formulae that make things work.< > > Yes, you keep saying the same things I have already said, but in > slightly different words, and pretending that you've said something > different. I didn't claim "science is ... a magical set of formulae > that make things work"; I said that the scientific method is a better > understanding of how not to fool yourself. I really do think that we're violently in agreement on that issue. jason ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:12:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The problem with email is the tone of humor doesnt travel well. I'm sorry you misunderstood my intention. I lived in France 1967-8, again 69 and 70, 78 so great many of the events and ideas a great part of my "formative years". A very good book about Debord and the SI's relationship with Asger Jorn and the arts is ON THE PASSAGE OF A FEW PEOPLE THROUGH A RATHER BRIEF MOMENT IN TIME : THE SITUATIONIST INTERNATIONAL 1957-72 MIT Press 1989, paperback 1991 from an exhibition at Centre Pompidou, Paris, ICA, London and ICA, Boston 1989-90 excellent essays and illustrations. >From: Christopher Leland Winks >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: postmodernism? >Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:05:00 -0400 > >This bit about "influences" on Debord (doubtless with their attendant >anxieties) should be qualified: equally important to Guy were folks >like the great Danish artist and theorist Asger Jorn, Lettrists Gil >Wolman and Ivan Chtcheglov, and of course many of his own comrades >during the existence of the Situationist International. > >I really think the comparison of Debord with Stalin is frivolous in >the worst way -- after all, Guy never killed anybody (and when French >gutter journalism tried to implicate him in the murder of his friend >Gerard Lebovici, he successfully sued for libel). As with Andre >Breton, Debord has been dumped on by any number of variously- >intentioned critics for his rigor in personal and political >relationships. But I say -- let those who have never broken with >anyone in their lives cast the first stone. And regarding "obsessive >attacks on Stalin" -- substitute "Hitler" for "Stalin" in that phrase >and the extent of its hollowness becomes patent. One can never attack >dictators enough! _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:20:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <200606141406.KAA13779@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yeah, that's a new one on me, too. gb On 14-Jun-06, at 7:06 AM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > don't have a clue as to what you mean by saying that English is > "detail-oriented" and that some other languages are not -- > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:41:36 +0000, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: > >> Great! >> >> If anything, in addition to its flexibility and >> disposition towards absorbtion of traits belonging to >> other tongues and cultures, English, among the many >> languages, is detail-oriented (which many simply >> aren't--Mandarin is just one example). >> >> AJ >> >> --- >> Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can >> NOT be > immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the > art that is > most precise. -- Ezra Pound >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > > George H. Bowering Fears a symmetrical oyster. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:20:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <00b601c68f24$4b7a2ad0$6801a8c0@PC232542321673> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Robin Hamilton wrote: > From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" > >> I have to say that a list of "postmodern" philosophers that includes >> Levi-Strauss, Heidegger and Gadamer is working with a notion of the >> postmodern >> beyond my powers of comprehension -- while it's alwayas a mistake to >> conflate >> postmodernism with poststructuralism, and I won't do that here, I don't know >> how we wind up with structuralists as postmodernists -- > > Actually, to extend this, I'd agree with Aldon that some of the names Jason > lists aren't even +post+structuralist (unless we take anything after Saussure's > +Course+ as that). Levi-Strauss and (early) Barthes (Elements of Semiology, > Writing Degree Zero) are (in my book) structuralists, the later Barthes > post-structuralist, and Derrida somewhere in the debatable lands between > post-structuralism and postmodernism. I don't see any real problem with saying structuralism being a form of postmodern philosophy. To my way of thinking, postmodernist is a big tent adjective in the same way that judaeo-christian is a big tent adjective. there aren't any fundamental tenets that are required in order for the term to apply, rather I'd follow habermas in noting that all that's required of postmodernist thought is just a generally anti-foundationalist attitude following vaguely after heidegger in his rejection of the modernist pursuit the goals of the enlightenment. What one puts in place of the "unfinished project of the enlightenment" doesn't matter so much as that initial rejection which modernist philosophy doesn't accept. Structuralism, post structuralism, deconstruction, existentialism, gadamer's hermeneutics, heidegger's phenomenology, behaviorism, reductionism, post-marxism, post-feminism, critical race theory, standpoint theory, postcolonialism, maoism, neo-conservatism, science studies, critical theory, gynocentric feminism... They all reject that "unfinished project" in one way or another, and as such, can be described as postmodern even if they don't fit lyotard's criteria of rejecting metanarratives. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:29:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <20060614054403.42207.qmail@web53903.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Onward and upward! Muy gracias! gb On 13-Jun-06, at 10:44 PM, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: > George, > > I get it. Got to forgive me, my stomach has been ill > for too many weeks. > > And always do love to read your thoughtful bits, > amigo. > > Best as ever, > AJ > > --- > Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can > NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean > the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > Mr. G. Bowering, Misses the open faces of youth in socialist Europe, 1966. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:29:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sartre, Camus, and De Beauvoir -- post-modern??????? Maoism -- post-modern? I didn't realize that the Cultural Revolution (which was neither) involved "de-centering the subject." Silly me, I thought it meant killing real people. "Critical theory" -- post-modern?? I guess Marx was post-modern, then. Come to think of it, maybe Heraclitus was too. Neo-conservatism too? Well, some of their exponents are ex-Leninists, so maybe they're post-Marxists as well, and hence post-modern. Behaviorism too? Connect me to those electrodes; I need to deconstruct my subjectivity. I guess the one thing that isn't postmodern is terminological precision, to which this poster seems to have an aversion. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:41:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: postmodernism?/ Debord et al In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks, David, for all these book refs re the Situationists! Curious how Jacque Roubaud's approach to Paris fits or does not fit into the Situationist spirit. I suspect his Oulipo frame does not fit well into concrete interruptions of an urban space - tho I think he is interrupting it - at least - on a metaphysical level. I am speaking here primarily on an intuitive level. I have done so many different kinds of walks in this City with serendipitously different kinds of intentions (elegiac to invasive to romantic to political, etc.), I get overwhelmed with aphasia when it comes to restating my previous reading of any 'orthodox' approaches to urban space- if 'orthodox' is finally even fair to Debord at all. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Currently home of the Tenderly series, A serial work in progress. > The problem with email is the tone of humor doesnt travel well. I'm > sorry you misunderstood my intention. > I lived in France 1967-8, again 69 and 70, 78 so great many of the > events and ideas a great part of my "formative years". > > A very good book about Debord and the SI's relationship with Asger Jorn > and the arts is ON THE PASSAGE OF A FEW PEOPLE THROUGH A RATHER BRIEF MOMENT > IN TIME : THE SITUATIONIST INTERNATIONAL 1957-72 MIT Press 1989, paperback > 1991 > from an exhibition at Centre Pompidou, Paris, ICA, London and ICA, Boston > 1989-90 excellent essays and illustrations. > > >> From: Christopher Leland Winks >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: postmodernism? >> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:05:00 -0400 >> >> This bit about "influences" on Debord (doubtless with their attendant >> anxieties) should be qualified: equally important to Guy were folks >> like the great Danish artist and theorist Asger Jorn, Lettrists Gil >> Wolman and Ivan Chtcheglov, and of course many of his own comrades >> during the existence of the Situationist International. >> >> I really think the comparison of Debord with Stalin is frivolous in >> the worst way -- after all, Guy never killed anybody (and when French >> gutter journalism tried to implicate him in the murder of his friend >> Gerard Lebovici, he successfully sued for libel). As with Andre >> Breton, Debord has been dumped on by any number of variously- >> intentioned critics for his rigor in personal and political >> relationships. But I say -- let those who have never broken with >> anyone in their lives cast the first stone. And regarding "obsessive >> attacks on Stalin" -- substitute "Hitler" for "Stalin" in that phrase >> and the extent of its hollowness becomes patent. One can never attack >> dictators enough! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 11:19:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Gorging on essence::Xanax Pop by Lewis LaCook Comments: To: Leiws LaCook , netbehaviour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You wrestle with an essence. Curling alongside someone's analogue brogue, you can gorge yourself on animal fat on the hoof; you can pounce on opulent ventures still latent with sterility; you can grow your order over every other face until you walk on unrippled undappled pathways and no gaze savages your form. The lookout on the mountain grazes unheard trees, even weeps when she finds those broken limbs; hot hazy days, the blood of the conquest, puddles lapping at the margins of the Lake. A marquee on the Lorain Plaza Theatre says something that reads. I calculated the lacerations, their rate and their tarry, and turned red over end, over and over and over again until you walk, striped with tertiary operations, through my door. Then you might have looked at me-- *************************************************************************** ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... || http://www.corporatepa.com || Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting Corporate Performance Artists __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 11:22:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: temporary removal from list Comments: cc: Charles Bernstein MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could you please remove me from the list temporarily? I am not sure how to do this. Best, MR ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:38:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain but . . . if structuralism is postmodern, what is poststructuralism? Is the tent you are erecting so large that it simply includes anybody who is not a foundationalist? Are thinkers who believe it is possible to account for all generation of meaning really in the same camp with people who think that is an impossible dream? On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:20:42 +0000, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > > From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" > > > >> I have to say that a list of "postmodern" philosophers that includes > >> Levi-Strauss, Heidegger and Gadamer is working with a notion of the > >> postmodern > >> beyond my powers of comprehension -- while it's alwayas a mistake to > >> conflate > >> postmodernism with poststructuralism, and I won't do that here, I don't know > >> how we wind up with structuralists as postmodernists -- > > > > Actually, to extend this, I'd agree with Aldon that some of the names Jason > > lists aren't even +post+structuralist (unless we take anything after Saussure's > > +Course+ as that). Levi-Strauss and (early) Barthes (Elements of Semiology, > > Writing Degree Zero) are (in my book) structuralists, the later Barthes > > post-structuralist, and Derrida somewhere in the debatable lands between > > post-structuralism and postmodernism. > > I don't see any real problem with saying structuralism being a form of postmodern philosophy. To my way of thinking, postmodernist is a big tent adjective in the same way that judaeo-christian is a big tent adjective. there aren't any fundamental tenets that are required in order for the term to apply, rather I'd follow habermas in noting that all that's required of postmodernist thought is just a generally anti-foundationalist attitude following vaguely after heidegger in his rejection of the modernist pursuit the goals of the enlightenment. What one puts in place of the "unfinished project of the enlightenment" doesn't matter so much as that initial rejection which modernist philosophy doesn't accept. Structuralism, post structuralism, deconstruction, existentialism, gadamer's hermeneutics, heidegger's phenomenology, behaviorism, reductionism, post-marxism, post-feminism, critical race theory, > standpoint theory, postcolonialism, maoism, neo-conservatism, science studies, critical theory, gynocentric feminism... They all reject that "unfinished project" in one way or another, and as such, can be described as postmodern even if they don't fit lyotard's criteria of rejecting metanarratives. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:02:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jorispierre Subject: Re: Spanish is not a foreign language (for Joel Weishaus) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060612154119.054c2b28@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nope (except for one or 2 occasional pieces for his young son). But =20 he wrote a vast number of letters (2 volume set to his wife is =20 published) and could have been a superb writer in that language had =20 he wanted to. Pierre On Jun 12, 2006, at 3:42 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Didn't he also write poetry in French, or was that just Rilke. > > At 03:33 PM 6/12/2006, you wrote: >> Well, Mark -- Celan's "mother" tongue was the tongue his mother >> preferred to speak to hiom -- & that was German; his father, the holz >> makler in town, spoke more yiddish -- but Clean had a major problem >> with his father. It is also Celan who claimed that indeed one could >> not write poetry except in the mother tongue =97 but from him I read >> that more psychically laden than as a simple statement on poetics. He >> felt he needed to write in his mother's tongue which was also the >> language of his mother's murderers. >> >> Pierre >> On Jun 10, 2006, at 11:24 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> >>> On eagerness of suckling: a small caveat. There are lots of poets >>> who write in languages other than the one that came with mother's >>> milk. Is there an age limit? Armand Schwerner was exclusively >>> francophone until age 9, Reznikoff (I think--I'll stand correction) >>> heard primarily yiddish at home, Codrescu Romanian. How about >>> Celan? I could probably come up with a few more among us moderns. >>> Charles d'Orleans (contemporary of Chaucer) wrote lovely poetry in >>> English during his twelve years in captivity. >>> >>> Somebody else should pick up this list. >>> >>> And there's the question of dialect. >>> >>> Two interesting experiments to try: >>> 1. Have a nursing mother coo to her infant in a language she >>> learned in school. >>> 2. Have said mother coo in different languages, one for the left, >>> one for the right breast. >>> >>> At what point would the milk curdle? >>> >>> And (giggle giggle) the inevitable question: does it work with =20 >>> adults? >>> >>> Anyone remember the Jamie Leigh Curtis role in A Fish Called Wanda? >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> At 10:41 AM 6/10/2006, you wrote: >>>> "the plan is the body" Robert Creeley >>>> >>>> "Emile Cioran, himself a crosser of linguistic boundaries (he was >>>> a Rumanian >>>> who wrote exquisite French prose), comments: "In a borrowed >>>> language, you >>>> are conscious of words; they exist not in you but outside of you. >>>> This interval >>>> between yourself and your means of expression explains why it is >>>> difficult, >>>> even impossible, to be a poet in another language besides your >>>> own. How >>>> extract a substance from words that are not rooted in you? The >>>> newcomer lives on >>>> the surface of language; he cannot, in a tongue belatedly >>>> learned, translate >>>> that subterranean agony from which poetry issues." >>>> >>>> Hard evidence of a sort for this view comes from the cognitive >>>> sciences. >>>> Steven Pinker in The Language Instinct mentions an ingenious >>>> experiment that >>>> shows how early infants get attuned to their mother tongue. It >>>> was found that >>>> "four-day-old French babies suck harder to hear French than >>>> Russian, and pick >>>> up their sucking more when a tape changes from Russian to French >>>> than from >>>> French to Russian." This positive response to the mother-tongue >>>> is due to the >>>> fact that "the melody of mothers' speech carries through their >>>> bodies and is >>>> audible in the womb. The babies still prefer French when the >>>> speech is >>>> electronically filtered so that the consonant and vowel sounds >>>> are muffled and only >>>> the melody comes through. But they are indifferent when the tapes >>>> are played >>>> backwards, which preserves the vowels and some of the consonants >>>> but distorts >>>> the melody. Nor does the effect prove the inherent beauty of the >>>> French >>>> language: nonFrench infants do not prefer French, and French >>>> infants do not >>>> distinguish Italian from English." The inference is that "The >>>> infants must have >>>> learned something about the prosody of French (its melody, stress >>>> and timing) in >>>> the womb, or in their first days out of it." >>>> >>>> The experiment demonstrates that one is most intimate with the >>>> lyric genius >>>> of one's mother tongue. It follows that poetry written in a >>>> language other >>>> than one's mother-tongue is not likely to be conspicuous for its >>>> lyricism." >>>> >>>> Translators are exceptional, are they not? >>>> >>>> _http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm_ >>>> (http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/08/07/d40807210294.htm) >>>> >>>> Mary >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> "Blasphemy is a victimless crime." -- a t-shirt sent to Salman >> Rushdie in the days of the Satanic Verses fatwa. >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> Pierre Joris >> 244 Elm Street >> Albany NY 12202 >> h: 518 426 0433 >> c: 518 225 7123 >> o: 518 442 40 85 >> Euro cell: 011 33 6 79 368 446 >> email: joris@albany.edu >> http://pierrejoris.com >> Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:31:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: postmodernism?/ Debord et al MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit check out pomerand new translation on ugly duck presse lettresist sound poet friend of vian wrote an anti-st germanin pictogrammaic journal ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 07:58:05 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <200606141838.OAA00862@webmail17.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > > But Alison does; so do several others who've written to support her > > views; and you seem to, sometimes. > > I'm new to the list, and I don't know alison, but if she really holds to > the views i'll fight her hammer and tongs on that issue, > Alison has said (and holds to) nothing of the sort, and thinks her "views", such as they are, are speculative at best. Nor does she understand why her name keeps getting dragged in here and having medals pinned on its lapel that it has neither earned nor desired. So you can put them dukes down, mister. All best A -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:19:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 14 Jun 2006 at 10:07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... I didn't mean the success of > individual scientific progress, i was talking about the wider > success of science in the sense that we have airplanes, sattelite > tv, rollercoasters, and canned foods that won't give you > boccilism.< What's boccilism? The creeping infestation of obscure Italian sports into American life? Okay, okay, I couldn't resist. Just a little tongue in cheekiness. But what kind of distinction is "not the success of individual scientific" projects from such individual scientific projects as airplanes, satelites, tv, rollercoasters, and the like? You seem to misunderstand entirely what science is and does, what the scientific method is and does, and what it means in the world and in philosophy. I think you have hold of the wrong end of the stick on this, Jason. If you accept that there is a "wider success" of science and yet call it a "cargo cult" you are clearly misunderstanding what science is. On 14 Jun 2006 at 10:07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... the philosophical question I'm > raising in response to that is how is it that honesty and integrity > in investigation, in other words being objective ...< It's not "being objective" to engage with problems with the kind of systematic honesty and integrity that constitutes the scientific method, though it's certainly "being empirical". You gotta problem wit' dat? On 14 Jun 2006 at 10:07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... how is it that honesty and integrity > in investigation leads to > propositions whose truth value is guaranteed (that is, are > objectively true) and which therefore have predictive power, which, > lets face it, is what we all expect from something called the law of > gravity. There's no doubt in my mind that this is what goes on when > science works.< That's too bad, since that's not how science works at all. Predictive power is all very well, but to say that a theory has "predictive power" is not to guarantee success -- it's to give a likelihood of success. Sometimes the likelihood is very high; sometimes not. Your characterization of science is a caricature. On 14 Jun 2006 at 10:07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > The question for me is really just a semantic and > syntactic one, that breaks down to trying to understand the correct > analysis of phrases like "scientific knowledge" "scientific theory" > and "scientific fact" as they relate to the grammar of more general > terms like "truth" "fact" "real" and "knowledge."< Very postmodern of you, I'm sure -- but not very scientific. On 14 Jun 2006 at 10:07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > But that's a very boring discussion for people who aren't as > fascinated by Wittgenstein as I am, so I think I'll leave that > discussion there.< I'll be happy to discuss it with you backchannel if you like, but for my part I'd prefer to keep it frontchannel because the most valuable things about lists such as this is when two people who know something about something get into a discussion about that something and chew over it in a public way; that is, the public forum prevents them from descending into jargon and elusive allusions and obscurity. The knowledge that people who are not expert in the field makes the discussion better. On 14 Jun 2006 at 10:07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > I really can't disagree strongly enough with a definition of > postmodernism that reduces to relativism.< That's the way it's been presented here. I'm criticising that presentation of it. Present it differently if you think that presentation is flawed. On 14 Jun 2006 at 10:07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... to my mind postmodern philosophy is characterized by > it's anti-foundationalism ...< So which is the postmodern philosopher, Socrates or Theatetus in Plato? On 14 Jun 2006 at 10:07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... There are lots of ways to > reject that everything grows out of first principles that don't > result in the sort of relativism you're describing, and I think that > Foucault and Sartre, to just name two examples, show a good example > of how one can go about doing that.< But the scientific method is all about anti-foundationalism. It accepts everything as contingent, and that it may all shift should something significant be found to be different than previously thought. It's just that some things are hard to imagine to be significantly different. But to a large extent talk of "laws" and the like is marketing to contest with the appeal of other views as, for example, the further you get from "hard" science the more you get referents to such things as "Pareto's Iron Law". It's less iron and more irony the further it gets into trying to be predictive about human beings instead of about heat and reactions. But even so, that everything is contingent is the basis of the scientific method, because there's always the possiblity that it's all wrong and the great crocodile god had it right all along. On 14 Jun 2006 at 10:07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... I'm contesting your conflation of postmodernism with > relativism.< I'm not conflating it; I'm saying that the advocates and defenders of it on this list have conflated it; I'm asking whether it makes sense to do so by asserting their conflation. On 14 Jun 2006 at 10:07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > ... one can certainly be all > manner of postmodern without having to ascribe to a dangerous, > self-defeating, and ultimately authoritarian view like cultural > relativism.< Maybe so; but you're the first to assert it here. > ... To my way of thinking all systems of belief > are worth examining for the grammatical structure of its tenets and > to see what is really being said.< Yeah, well, I've found that when you examine many systems of belief, postmodernism not least among them, you find that what is really being said is "I don't care if it's wrong or contradictory or nonsense, I just believe as I was taught to believe, and nyah to you". I'll be interested to see what you say to the people who have asked you other questions about the big tent of postmodernism. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:39:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: "Waxing Hot", Poetics Dialogue: Amy King & Adam Fieled on PFS Post Comments: To: "derek@theadamsresidence.co.uk" , aduncan@pinko.org, "cmccabe@rfh.org.uk" , sglassman@comcast.net, "cordite@cordite.org.au" , "js@johnsiddique.co.uk" , a.waldman@mindspring.com, jeffreyethan@att.net, ediesedgwick@ediesedgwick.biz, cdeniord@nec.edu, jgens@sover.net, mountaingirl523@hotmail.com, jlwhite@temple.edu, peter@greatworks.org.uk, val@writtenpicture.co.uk, Lse664@aol.com, samwallack@hotmail.com, golden.notebook@gmail.com, marywgraham@yahoo.com, meharju@yahoo.com, pfettner@temple.edu, rdupless@temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New at PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com) : The second installment the "Waxing Hot" poetics dialogue series, featuring Amy King & Adam Fieled. Among topics discussed: La Petite Zine, "net epiphanies", UK poetry & poets, US poetry & poets, "Great Works", poetry readings ("epiphanic" & "non-epiphanic"), Flarf, "Born Magazine", "small press vs. large press", lots of other names, places, faces... check it out! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 02:09:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Making sense MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Making sense http://tinyurl.com/pz6tj -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 01:28:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Seiferle Subject: new issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Spring/Summer issue of The Drunken Boat is now online at http://www.thedrunkenboat.com including: An interview with Australian poet, Jill Jones, including her sonnet series "Traverse" and a collaborative project with the photographer Annette Willis "Breath, the hours." A feature of modern Chinese poetry, edited by Inara Cedrins with an introduction by Michael Day, a chapbook of newly translated poems by Xi Chuan and an essay on Xi Chuan's poetry by Maghiel van Crevel, and a chapbook of poems in the manner of Men Jaio by Christopher Kelen, as well as work from : Zhai Yongming Chen Dongdong Yu Jian Duoduo Sun Wenbo Ouyang Jianghe Wang Xiaoni Yin Lichuan Yang Qian Li Sen Li Nan Han Dong Wang Jiaxin In Tibet Woeser Meizhuo Minorities in China Yidam Tsering Baitao Shama Luruo Diji Jimu Langge Chinese poets abroad Bei Dao Ha Jin Xue Di Stephen Shu-Ning Liu Arthur Sze Timothy Liu in Taiwan Chen Kehua Chen Li Hsia Yü Hung Hung in Macao Christopher Kelen Papa Osmubal Yao Feng Jenny Oliveros Lao Agnes Lam Iok Fong Agnes Vong Lai Ieng in Hong Kong P.K. Leung Louise Shew Wan Ho Alan Jefferies Timothy Kaiser in Singapore Felix Cheong Seng Fei Gilbert Koh Yong Shu Hoong Alvin Pang Robert Yeo Eddie Tay Toh Hsien Min Cyril Wong Arthur Yap Translated by Michael Day, Maghiel van Crevel, d dayton, Huichun (Amy) Liang, Steven Schroeder, Yangdon Dhondup, Simon Patton, Alison Mara Friedman, Wang Hao, Andrea Lingenfelter, Tsui-hua Huang, Mike O'Conner, Inara Cedrins, and Christine Tsui-hua Huang. Poems from Greece by Adrianne Kalfopoulou, a chapbook "Anachronistic Night's Dream" by Gail Wronsky with her essay "One Woman's Jonesing for Wonder," Poems by Dzvinia Orlowsky with an introduction, Poems from _The Artist as Alice: From a Photographer's Life_ with an introduction "On Writing The Artist as Alice: From a Photographer's Life" Best, Rebecca Seiferle www.thedrunkenboat.com tdbeditor@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 10:57:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: Jack Raoul Does Kenneth Goldsmith (chap release) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline PERSISTENCIA || June 2006 a NEW online CHAPBOOK *Section IX from No. 111.2.7.93-10.20.96 by Kenneth Goldsmith* by Jack Raoul In this exciting new publication, Jack Raoul reproduces the work of avant-garde uncreative poster boy Kenneth Goldsmith. Painstakingly copying Section IX of Goldsmith's *No. 111.2.7.93-10.20.96*, Raoul remains loyal to the parent text down to the letter. Half prank, half tribute, half treatise, this chapbook is now available online from PERSISTENCIA. Download and read for free here.* But wait, there's more! Raoul promises more boldly unrevised sections in the near future! Keep an eye out. PR Primeau PERSISTENCIA Manager-in-Chief Home: http://persistenciapress.tripod.com E-chaps: http://www.freewebs.com/persistenciapress/ E-mail: persistencia_press@yahoo.com *http://www.freewebs.com/persistenciapress/sectionix_jack%20raoul.pdf ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:32:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: What's Love Got To Do With It? In-Reply-To: <9d8f23110606150757x6624cf23s8d964c79592d0232@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For the love of poetry: 1937 - 2006 = 36 Men and 8 Women ---> http://www.amyking.org/blog/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:37:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <200606141838.OAA00862@webmail17.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To my way of thinking, postmodern is a pretty clear cut case of what Wittgenstein was talking about in Philosophical Investigations when he was advocating for letting rough, vague terms remain rough vague terms. Yes, Postmodern Philosophy is a great big tent. That's what I was trying to get at with the analogy to the term "Judaeo-Christian." There's not a lot of similarity between the belief systems of a liberal vatican II catholic and a hasidic jew, but they both fall under the same big tent of Judaeo-Christian and they're related in important ways that allowing them to exist under the big tent captures linguistically. Same thing with postmodernism. Sure, the semiotic goals of the structuralists are denied by post-structuralist thinkers. But they are part of a counter-modern tradition of philosophical thought that includes thinkers like rousseau, schopenhauer, nietzche, heidegger, husserl, and their various twentieth century decendents, all of whom question the possibility of coming up with a complete understanding of philosophical issues by building from a foundational understanding of metaphysics, epistemology, and logic. I do think it's a bit of a shame that nobody bothered to name it until the twentieth century and that it's been stuck with the unfortunate misnomer of "postmodern" rather than a more accurate "contra-modern" or "anti-modern." But postmodern is what we've got. By way of contrast, various philosophies such as those of marx, hegel, frege, the british empiricists, the continental rationalists, twentieth century analytic philosophy following after Russell/Moore/Wittgenstein (including scientific anti-realists like kuhn and feyerabend), various forms of positivism, logical atomism, and to a certain extent certain currents within pragmatism and neo-pragmatism are decidedly modern, are not concerned with the same sort of program as goes on in postmodern philosophy, and largely disregards the things that go on in continental europe stemming from heidegger, mostly, but also encompassing the semiotics project of the structuralists and post-structuralists. Because of those distinct differences, it's useful to be able to say "These are postmodern philosophies" and "these are modern philosophies" in such a broad way. This is why, I think, it's important to keep in mind that when one is talking about postmodern art and literature that that's really only coincidentally and/or tangentially related to postmodern philosophy, and it's only in the last thirty years or so that there started to be any real sort of interplay, largely because of the way that literary theory is being taught as if all postmodernity were monolithic and adhered to certain tenets, when, quite frankly, it's idiotic to assume that, for example, just because Russell Edson's poetry is postmodern that there's anything to be gained by the application of Foucault's historo-critical method to it. The problem is in the critics being careless in the deployment of vague terms as if they were precise, and it's the source of much confusion and what Wittgenstein called "philosopher's nonsense" as a result. On Wed, 14 Jun 2006, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > but . . . if structuralism is postmodern, what is poststructuralism? Is the > tent you are erecting so large that it simply includes anybody who is not a > foundationalist? Are thinkers who believe it is possible to account for all > generation of meaning really in the same camp with people who think that is an > impossible dream? > > On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:20:42 +0000, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> >>> From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" >>> >>>> I have to say that a list of "postmodern" philosophers that includes >>>> Levi-Strauss, Heidegger and Gadamer is working with a notion of the >>>> postmodern >>>> beyond my powers of comprehension -- while it's alwayas a mistake to >>>> conflate >>>> postmodernism with poststructuralism, and I won't do that here, I don't > know >>>> how we wind up with structuralists as postmodernists -- >>> >>> Actually, to extend this, I'd agree with Aldon that some of the names Jason >>> lists aren't even +post+structuralist (unless we take anything after > Saussure's >>> +Course+ as that). Levi-Strauss and (early) Barthes (Elements of Semiology, > >>> Writing Degree Zero) are (in my book) structuralists, the later Barthes >>> post-structuralist, and Derrida somewhere in the debatable lands between >>> post-structuralism and postmodernism. >> >> I don't see any real problem with saying structuralism being a form of > postmodern philosophy. To my way of thinking, postmodernist is a big tent > adjective in the same way that judaeo-christian is a big tent adjective. there > aren't any fundamental tenets that are required in order for the term to apply, > rather I'd follow habermas in noting that all that's required of postmodernist > thought is just a generally anti-foundationalist attitude following vaguely > after heidegger in his rejection of the modernist pursuit the goals of the > enlightenment. What one puts in place of the "unfinished project of the > enlightenment" doesn't matter so much as that initial rejection which modernist > philosophy doesn't accept. Structuralism, post structuralism, deconstruction, > existentialism, gadamer's hermeneutics, heidegger's phenomenology, behaviorism, > reductionism, post-marxism, post-feminism, critical race theory, >> standpoint theory, postcolonialism, maoism, neo-conservatism, science studies, > critical theory, gynocentric feminism... They all reject that "unfinished > project" in one way or another, and as such, can be described as postmodern > even if they don't fit lyotard's criteria of rejecting metanarratives. >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:41:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: New Poet Laureate Donald Hall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Oh for the days of Ted Kooser I still remember six years ago when Hall, Bly, and Kizer were reading together in Des Moines. Bly was talking about his "friend, Donald Hall" repeatedly, but it sure sounded to me and the people that I was there with like he was saying "Don Ho," until we put 2 & two together. Now Don Ho as US Poet Laureate.. that would be something. Dan -- http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:29:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: New Poet Laureate Donald Hall In-Reply-To: <750c78460606150941s3d5dfc06uaa1ae40f6a514a79@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 15 Jun 2006 at 11:41, Dan Coffey wrote: > Now Don Ho as US Poet Laureate.. that would be something. Talk about your REALLY Tiny Bubbles. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:57:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 15 Jun 2006 at 9:37, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > To my way of thinking, postmodern is a pretty clear cut case of what > Wittgenstein was talking about in Philosophical Investigations when > he was advocating for letting rough, vague terms remain rough vague > terms.< To my way of thinking, postmodern is a pretty clear-cut case of what Wittgenstein was talking about here: 464. My aim is: to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised nonsense to something that is patent nonsense. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:06:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The term Judaeo-Christian has a long history, beginning as a designation of pre-Pauline Christians in Palestine. After the Holocaust it was called into service as a kind of apology, but, as in prior usages, only by Christians, and I don't think it's an apology that's been accepted. Jews use the term when making nice to Christian or mixed audiences, and only very rarely among themselves. How does the old saying go? "When I hear that word I reach for my gun." On a purely theological level, anyone who believes that god had a son (or even entertains the belief as a metaphor) is in a different tent in a different world. Jews disagree with each other obsessively, but not about this. Mark At 12:37 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote: >To my way of thinking, postmodern is a pretty clear cut case of what >Wittgenstein was talking about in Philosophical Investigations when >he was advocating for letting rough, vague terms remain rough vague >terms. Yes, Postmodern Philosophy is a great big tent. That's what I >was trying to get at with the analogy to the term >"Judaeo-Christian." There's not a lot of similarity between the >belief systems of a liberal vatican II catholic and a hasidic jew, >but they both fall under the same big tent of Judaeo-Christian and >they're related in important ways that allowing them to exist under >the big tent captures linguistically. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:09:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060615135838.052c8300@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Exactly. Postmodern is the same sort of word. On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Mark Weiss wrote: > The term Judaeo-Christian has a long history, beginning as a designation of > pre-Pauline Christians in Palestine. After the Holocaust it was called into > service as a kind of apology, but, as in prior usages, only by Christians, and > I don't think it's an apology that's been accepted. Jews use the term when > making nice to Christian or mixed audiences, and only very rarely among > themselves. How does the old saying go? "When I hear that word I reach for my > gun." > > On a purely theological level, anyone who believes that god had a son (or even > entertains the belief as a metaphor) is in a different tent in a different > world. Jews disagree with each other obsessively, but not about this. > > Mark > > > At 12:37 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote: >> To my way of thinking, postmodern is a pretty clear cut case of what >> Wittgenstein was talking about in Philosophical Investigations when he was >> advocating for letting rough, vague terms remain rough vague terms. Yes, >> Postmodern Philosophy is a great big tent. That's what I was trying to get >> at with the analogy to the term "Judaeo-Christian." There's not a lot of >> similarity between the belief systems of a liberal vatican II catholic and a >> hasidic jew, but they both fall under the same big tent of Judaeo-Christian >> and they're related in important ways that allowing them to exist under the >> big tent captures linguistically. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:23:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Geoffrey Squires Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Some of you may be aware of Shearsman, Tony Fraser's magazine and press. Based in Exeter UK, it publishes primarily British and Irish poetry, though there are a scattering of translations and USians as well. An essential source, fa who's who of the kind of work people on this list are likely to be interested in. Tony's editorial taste is unfailing. Among his offerings is a series of ebooks (http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/ebooks/ebooks_home.html), the latest of which is Geoffrey Squires' "Lines." This is poetry struggling with the edges of what language is capable of expressing, at the edge of silence. An enactment of and a summary of a lifetime of thought about the nature of mind and its interface with place and time, written as carefully as if each word were to be committed to stone. There are no mistakes. Only a poet with Squires' wealth of experience could have accomplished this book. It's a high-wire act without a net or audience, an act of perfect poise. Call it wisdom. I also recommend his "Untitled and Other Poems, 1975-2002," from Wild Honey Press, another essential source for the best of British and Irish poetry. Amazon's offering it at $16.00. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:49:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: without you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Without you my farts sound like questions to which the answer is always "no." http://blog.myspace.com/orthodontist ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:00:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060615135838.052c8300@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The quote you are thinking of is "When I hear talk of the word Culture I reach for my revolver"--it is usually and famously attributed to Herman Goering, though originally written in a play by Nazi playwright Hans Johst. >From: Mark Weiss >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: postmodernism? >Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:06:06 -0400 > >The term Judaeo-Christian has a long history, beginning as a designation of >pre-Pauline Christians in Palestine. After the Holocaust it was called into >service as a kind of apology, but, as in prior usages, only by Christians, >and I don't think it's an apology that's been accepted. Jews use the term >when making nice to Christian or mixed audiences, and only very rarely >among themselves. How does the old saying go? "When I hear that word I >reach for my gun." > >On a purely theological level, anyone who believes that god had a son (or >even entertains the belief as a metaphor) is in a different tent in a >different world. Jews disagree with each other obsessively, but not about >this. > >Mark > > >At 12:37 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote: >>To my way of thinking, postmodern is a pretty clear cut case of what >>Wittgenstein was talking about in Philosophical Investigations when he was >>advocating for letting rough, vague terms remain rough vague terms. Yes, >>Postmodern Philosophy is a great big tent. That's what I was trying to get >>at with the analogy to the term "Judaeo-Christian." There's not a lot of >>similarity between the belief systems of a liberal vatican II catholic and >>a hasidic jew, but they both fall under the same big tent of >>Judaeo-Christian and they're related in important ways that allowing them >>to exist under the big tent captures linguistically. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:01:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: without postmodernism In-Reply-To: <001801c6917d$ec6bdff0$210110ac@AARONLAPTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Without you postmodernism sounds like questions to which the answer is always "fart." Aaron Belz wrote: Without you my farts sound like questions to which the answer is always "no." http://blog.myspace.com/orthodontist helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:06:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: website for authors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Emma Ward [mailto:eward@bookhitch.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:32 PM To: cadaly@comcast.net Subject: website for authors I am contacting you because I am raising awareness of a website designed = for authors, such as yourself. I would like to offer you the opportunity to = list your books on our site, for free. This is a marketing opportunity for = not only authors, but publishers. bookhitch.com will not only increase = awareness of your talent, but allows you to direct readers to your own website, or your publishers to buy the book. Therefore we are simply acting as a = portal connecting author and reader. We do not handle your books, but offer you = a new marketing medium at a time when the Internet is becoming a crucial element in book marketing. Visit www.bookhitch.com. For more information e-mail bookhitch at eward@bookhitch.com Thank You for your time. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:51:05 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Geoffrey Squires In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060615150522.052e2328@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 16/6/06 5:23 AM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > This is poetry > struggling with the edges of what language is capable of expressing, > at the edge of silence. An enactment of and a summary of a lifetime > of thought about the nature of mind and its interface with place and > time, written as carefully as if each word were to be committed to > stone. There are no mistakes. > > Only a poet with Squires' wealth of experience could have > accomplished this book. It's a high-wire act without a net or > audience, an act of perfect poise. > > Call it wisdom. > > I also recommend his "Untitled and Other Poems, 1975-2002," from Wild > Honey Press, another essential source for the best of British and > Irish poetry. Amazon's offering it at $16.00. Let me back this up. I am a great admirer of Geoffrey Squires' poetry. Only it seems to me not written in stone, but something altogether more fluid and human. Best A -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2006 Hollywood Book Festival: Call for Entries The 2006 Hollywood Book Festival has issued a call for entries to its annual program celebrating books that deserve greater recognition from the film, television, game, and multimedia communities. Deadline: June 25. For more information, call (323) 665-8068. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 00:24:08 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcus Bales writes: > On 14 Jun 2006 at 10:07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> The question for me is really just a semantic and >> syntactic one, that breaks down to trying to understand the correct >> analysis of phrases like "scientific knowledge" "scientific theory" >> and "scientific fact" as they relate to the grammar of more general >> terms like "truth" "fact" "real" and "knowledge."< > > Very postmodern of you, I'm sure -- but not very scientific. Really, Marcus, by that criterion you would have to dismiss Plato as postmodernist, as Jason's last three lines could echo aspects of the Platonic Project. Mind you, isn't there a strong Plato/Derrida link somewhere? And I suppose you could say that Plato was "unscientific", whatever that means, compared to Aristotle. But this is becoming deeply convoluted. I can't be bothered to track down the precise place you say this, Marcus (late at night/early in the morning, and I'm playing catchup after being offline for a day or more) but I had the sense that you're confusing what is a deeply rooted and conventional description of what constitutes the material of science (probably rather old fashioned) that turns on the (dis)provability of propositions, and the nature of the predictive element in science. Scientific predictions certainly aren't per se true or false, but they can be more or less powerful (ie. explain more or fewer phenomena). This coexists with the predictive element, but isn't the same thing. I'm not sure that makes entire sense (it is past midnight after a long day) but I chuck it in here to focus this particular issue, and I'm sure some of the other participants in this thread will correct me or sharpen up my point. Robin Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 00:34:22 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark: > The term Judaeo-Christian has a long history, beginning as a designation > of pre-Pauline Christians in Palestine. After the Holocaust it was called > into service as a kind of apology, but, as in prior usages, only by > Christians, and I don't think it's an apology that's been accepted. Jews > use the term when making nice to Christian or mixed audiences, and only > very rarely among themselves. How does the old saying go? "When I hear > that word I reach for my gun." > > On a purely theological level, anyone who believes that god had a son (or > even entertains the belief as a metaphor) is in a different tent in a > different world. Jews disagree with each other obsessively, but not about > this. > > Mark Sure, Mark, but isn't it also used to distinguish guilt cultures (the people[s] of the Book[s] -- Jewish, Christian, and Moslem) from shame cultures? Ruth Benedict in +The Chrysanthemum and the Sword+ started this, I think. Robin The Chrysanthemum and the Sword : Patterns of Japanese Culture (Paperback) by Ruth Benedict ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:53:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Luis Jimenez, 1940-2006 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I didn't know a lot about Luis Jimenez when I moved to Tucson in the=20 mid-1980s, but I quickly came to think of him as one of the giants in the=20 arts in this part of the country, with a following and reputation that=20 spread far beyond. Luis Jiminez, Sculptor, Dies in an Accident at 65 By DAVID A. BELCHER Published: June 15, 2006 Luis Jimenez, a sculptor whose color-splashed images of swirling dancers,=20 roughneck cowboys in motion and the working class made him a controversial= =20 and easily recognized international figure in the art world, died Tuesday=20 at his studio in rural Hondo, N.M. He was 65. Skip to next paragraph ACA Galleries New York "Vaquero" (1987), by the Southwestern sculptor Luis Jimenez. The Lincoln County Sheriff's Office in Carrizozo, N.M., said he died in an= =20 industrial accident. Mr. Jimenez was pronounced dead at the Lincoln County Medical Center in=20 southern New Mexico, the Lincoln County Sheriff's Office said. He sustained= =20 injuries when one of three pieces from a 32-foot-high sculpture being moved= =20 from his studio came loose and pinned him against a steel support. The=20 piece, commissioned by Denver International Airport, depicted a giant=20 mustang horse and had been in development for nearly a decade, according to= =20 Jim Moore, former director of the Albuquerque Museum. Mr. Jimenez's massive fiberglass objects, depicting Hispanic and Native=20 American dancers, cowboys and barrio workers with contorted faces and=20 neon-colored, spray-painted clothing, are displayed prominently in public=20 places and museums across the Southwest and the country. His work has been= =20 featured at the Art Institute of Chicago, the Museum of Fine Arts in=20 Houston, the Metropolitan Museum of Art and the Whitney Museum of American= Art. The Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C., honored Mr. Jimenez's=20 sculpture "Man on Fire" in 1979, when it became part of the Smithsonian's=20 National Museum of American Art. The work, perhaps his best known, depicts= =20 a man in flames, and is based on the Aztec emperor Cuauht=C3=A9moc, who was= =20 burned alive by Spanish conquistadores. A casting of another of his=20 sculptures, "Vaquero," which shows a bronco rider atop a shimmering,=20 metallic-blue horse, sits outside the museum. Mr. Jimenez was born in El Paso in 1940. His father owned an electric sign= =20 shop, which exposed Luis to spray painting and welding. He moved to New=20 York in 1966, returned to New Mexico in the early 1970's and found success= =20 =E2=80=94 and controversy =E2=80=94 as a sculptor of outdoor objects, which= are=20 featured prominently around Albuquerque, including at the University of New= =20 Mexico, in the neighborhood Martineztown and in the National Hispanic=20 Cultural Center. Jimenez drew major attention, positive and negative, in 1983, when=20 neighbors in the Old Town district in Albuquerque objected to a sculpture=20 depicting a Native American caressing a dying woman, saying that it=20 resembled a rape. More recently, Mr. Jimenez completed a sculpture of=20 firefighters for the city of Cleveland, and was putting the finishing=20 touches on the Denver International Airport piece, Mr. Moore said. "At the height of Minimalism in the 1960's, he chose to do something out of= =20 fashion," Mr. Moore said. "His work contributed to the rise of Pop Art, but= =20 it was more a willingness to do something so overtly meaningful at first=20 glance." New Mexico's governor, Bill Richardson, ordered flags around the state to=20 be flown at half-staff today and Friday. Rudolfo Anaya, professor emeritus of history at the University of New=20 Mexico, said of Mr. Jimenez: "The kind of medium he used shocked the art=20 world at first. It was first called outlandish and garish, but it spoke not= =20 only to Hispanics but to the world. In the coming years there will be a=20 school of Luis Jimenez art." charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:56:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: elen Subject: FW: Callaloo: Next Thirty Years of Callaloo (12/1/06; journal issue) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A CALLALOO CALL FOR PAPERS: THE NEXT THIRTY YEARS OF CALLALOO Callaloo is currently putting together material for an issue to be published in November 2007 as the last of four special issues celebrating Callaloo's 30th anniversary. This issue is to focus on Callaloo's future as an international cultural institution and on the writers and scholars who will fuel that future. Over the past thirty years, Callaloo has been an invaluable forum for the development and critique of the African Diaspora's literature and culture. As the journal moves into its next thirty years, this issue will feature personal essays, creative writing, and critical work illuminating the future of scholarship and literature and Callaloo's role in their development. As a forecast of the journal's future, this issue will investigate current trends and opportunities for growth in literature and in literary cultural studies. For this 30th anniversary issue engaging the future of Callaloo, we seek creative work (fiction, poetry, short drama) from writers 45 and under which represents the future thematic and aesthetic evolution of literature from the African Diaspora. The focus is not on "experimental" writing per se, but any innovation in form or subject that forges into new territory in black literature. We also seek to feature a modest body of work by new writers who have yet to publish full-length manuscripts. We also seek short, non-fiction essays (500 words or less) from writers and scholars of all ages on what they think the future of Callaloo should or will be. For the scholarship, we also seek work from scholars 45 and under whose work uses new and innovative methodologies to deal with established writers of any era and/or the defining questions of African American cultural study. We also welcome scholarship dealing with writers-especially but not exclusively contemporary writers-whose work has not yet received substantial critical attention. All manuscripts or other contributions should follow the Callaloo submission guidelines and be postmarked no later than Friday, December 1st, 2006: Callaloo/The Next Thirty Years Department of English Texas A&M University 4227 TAMU College Station, TX 77843-4227 Please direct all inquiries to Kyle Dargan and Keith Leonard, guest editors, at: Kyle G. Dargan Keith Leonard Distinguished Adjunct-in-Residence Assistant Professor Department of Literature Department of Literature American University American University kd6017a @ american.edu kdl @ american.edu ========================================================== From the Literary Calls for Papers Mailing List CFP@english.upenn.edu Full Information at http://cfp.english.upenn.edu or write Jennifer Higginbotham: higginbj@english.upenn.edu ========================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:58:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed and is that what Godard is referencing in CONTEMPT when the movie producer, played by Jack Palance, says "When I hear the word `culture,' I get out my checkbook." charles At 01:00 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote: >The quote you are thinking of is "When I hear talk of the word Culture I >reach for my revolver"--it is usually and famously attributed to Herman >Goering, though originally written in a play by Nazi playwright Hans Johst. > > >>From: Mark Weiss >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: postmodernism? >>Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:06:06 -0400 >> >>The term Judaeo-Christian has a long history, beginning as a designation >>of pre-Pauline Christians in Palestine. After the Holocaust it was called >>into service as a kind of apology, but, as in prior usages, only by >>Christians, and I don't think it's an apology that's been accepted. Jews >>use the term when making nice to Christian or mixed audiences, and only >>very rarely among themselves. How does the old saying go? "When I hear >>that word I reach for my gun." >> >>On a purely theological level, anyone who believes that god had a son (or >>even entertains the belief as a metaphor) is in a different tent in a >>different world. Jews disagree with each other obsessively, but not about this. >> >>Mark >> >> >>At 12:37 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote: >>>To my way of thinking, postmodern is a pretty clear cut case of what >>>Wittgenstein was talking about in Philosophical Investigations when he >>>was advocating for letting rough, vague terms remain rough vague terms. >>>Yes, Postmodern Philosophy is a great big tent. That's what I was trying >>>to get at with the analogy to the term "Judaeo-Christian." There's not a >>>lot of similarity between the belief systems of a liberal vatican II >>>catholic and a hasidic jew, but they both fall under the same big tent >>>of Judaeo-Christian and they're related in important ways that allowing >>>them to exist under the big tent captures linguistically. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 00:44:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: It bothers me that spam has cuter titles than I. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, males and so forth! While I am powerless to assist with erectile dysfunctions, we of www.UnlikelyStories.org are proud to present: Nine Paintings by Llori Stein Four Songs by Bob Powell an audio version of last month's story, "Origins in the Key of Sea," by Kirpal Gordon with jazz accompaniment an interview with Carol Novack of Mad Hatters' Review by Charles P. Ries and "Rock Hard," a short film by Jack Feldstein Furthermore, if you give us money, we will thank you! -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 06:44:45 -0400 Reply-To: jamie@rockheals.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Gaughran-Perez Subject: Zombie Haiku by June 30 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Write Zombie Haiku and Win! Over at Rock Heals we found ourselves in possession of an extra copy of Buck Downs' kick-ass new chapdisc (CD), Pontiac Fever, with a directive to give it away to someone in our readership. Naturally some kind of poetry contest had to happen -- and so the Zombie Haiku contest began. Haiku from, about, or just tangentially related to Zombies -- who've always been a great device for commentary on civil rights and other disenfranchisement, consumer culture, disease/mortality and/or just a great plot vehicle for carnage, mayham, and shotguns. It's easy. It's fun. It ends on June 30 (two weeks from today!). A sample: stumbling down the street moonlight reflects off puddles where is my left arm? /Jason Sweeney/ The submissions have been amazing diverse in approach -- see more here, but don't let it hedge you in... there are a hundred more angles to ponder: http://www.rockheals.com/archives/2006/05/zombie_haiku_co_1.html http://www.rockheals.com/archives/2006/06/zombie_haiku_co.html So send your submission(s) to: submit@rockheals.com Don't sleep on it, jamie.gp -- Jamie Gaughran-Perez www.rockheals.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 06:57:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Recent Nomadics blog posts Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Comments: cc: Lucifer Poetics Group , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recent Nomadics blog posts: The Heine Prize, one last time Thought is Made in the Mouth: Dada Sound Poetry and Manifestos Poet Lariat Gyorgy Ligeti (1923-2006) Jean-Luc Godard's show of shows Juan Cole's own take Francisco Garcia Fitz responds can be found here: http://pjoris.blogspot.com apologies for crosspostings Pierre ============================================== "Blasphemy is a victimless crime." -- a t-shirt sent to Salman Rushdie in the days of the Satanic Verses fatwa. ============================================== Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 Euro cell: 011 33 6 79 368 446 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ========================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:19:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <007901c690d2$cd3d0ce0$6601a8c0@PC232542321673> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 16 Jun 2006 at 0:24, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Really, Marcus, by that criterion you would have to dismiss Plato > as postmodernist, as Jason's last three lines could echo aspects of > the Platonic Project.< My point has been all along that there is no "postmodern turn" or "postmodern event" before which the human condition was one sort of thing and after which it became "postmodern", as Alison averred. I'm arguing that postmodernism is a bunch of hooey, not that Plato was a postmodern so we much reject him! On 16 Jun 2006 at 0:24, Robin Hamilton wrote: > ... I had the sense that you're confusing what > is a deeply rooted and conventional description of what constitutes > the material of science (probably rather old fashioned) that turns on > the (dis)provability of propositions, and the nature of the predictive > element in science. Scientific predictions certainly aren't per se true or > false, but they can be more or less powerful (ie. explain more or fewer > phenomena). < To the extent that that confusion is characteristic of anyone's argument here, I was trying to show it's characteristic of Jason's, not mine. I think i ti s Jason, not me, who has mischaracterized sccience and the scientific method. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 08:26:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: postmodernism? In-Reply-To: <008801c690d4$3b849910$6601a8c0@PC232542321673> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Quaint to think that there was a time when Jews Moslems and Christians were gathered under one tent. As I said, a long history. The common use of the term, by presidents and other public speakers and casually by almost all of us, has little to do with Ruth Benedict. I don't expect the term to become non-PC; it bugs me nonetheless. Hopefully we can play nicely together without pretending away difference. How optimistic of me. Mark At 07:34 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote: >Mark: > >>The term Judaeo-Christian has a long history, beginning as a >>designation of pre-Pauline Christians in Palestine. After the >>Holocaust it was called into service as a kind of apology, but, as >>in prior usages, only by Christians, and I don't think it's an >>apology that's been accepted. Jews use the term when making nice to >>Christian or mixed audiences, and only very rarely among >>themselves. How does the old saying go? "When I hear that word I >>reach for my gun." >> >>On a purely theological level, anyone who believes that god had a >>son (or even entertains the belief as a metaphor) is in a different >>tent in a different world. Jews disagree with each other >>obsessively, but not about this. >> >>Mark > >Sure, Mark, but isn't it also used to distinguish guilt cultures >(the people[s] of the Book[s] -- Jewish, Christian, and Moslem) from >shame cultures? Ruth Benedict in +The Chrysanthemum and the Sword+ >started this, I think. > >Robin > > > >The Chrysanthemum and the Sword : Patterns of Japanese Culture (Paperback) >by Ruth Benedict ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:26:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: ELSEWHERE 2: "Coney Island Avenue" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The second issue of Elsewhere is out. Brief description: "Coney Island Avenue": All images seen on a walk up Coney Island Avenue, Brooklyn, from Brighton Beach to Kensington. Text by Nada Gordon, modeled on Frank O'Hara's "Second Avenue," and written from notes taken on a bus ride going down Coney Island Avenue in the opposite direction. The Comics Journal on Elsewhere #1: "This comic creates an impression of a foreign land that feels more authentic than a more traditional memoir ever could. ... Elsewhere #1 reminds us of the power the comics medium can possess. It might be one of the best uses of the comics form as autobiography in a long time." To order, visit http://garysullivan.blgospot.com or e-mail me if you don't use PayPal. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:31:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Oops: URL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sorry, I messed up the URL. It should be: http://garysullivan.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 08:38:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: New York Reading Series In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Buffalo listers: Does anyone have the contact info for New York readings at Bowery or other locations we don't know about? Cracked Slab Books is publishing Michelle Noteboom's book Edging this fall and we are looking for a NY Date for her to read. Thanks for the help Ray Bianchi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:50:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Philip Nikolayev in Boston June 22: poetry reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Philip Nikolayev June 22, 7 p.m. The Plaza Room The New England Institute of Art 10 Brookline Place West Brookline, MA 02445 Please forward as necessary. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:37:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: ELSEWHERE 2: "Coney Island Avenue" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit was she born on coney island ave ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:23:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit enough PM already fellas just buy my new book 247 pages 8 color inserts the complete notes of a charles gayle note book hte final nite ugly duck presse 15 bucks it's definitely post-something dalachinsky and where's that donated lap top i so desparately need ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:15:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Every Saturday At Noon Reading Series at Gallery 324 In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060616081850.0520d068@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable I am hosting the Every Saturday At Noon Poetry Reading Series at Gallery 324 in the Galleria in downtown Cleveland. Free Saturday parking in the Galleria's underground parking garage. Any of you postmodern poets want to show, not tell, what postmodern poetry is and does by being a Featured Reader? No pay except the honor and glory of the thing. There are between one to four or five featured readers, and then an open mic afterwards. Everyone is welcome to come and read, postmodern or not. Let me know. Future Shows: June 17 - Bob McDonough June 24 - Shelly Rankin July 1 - break for inspiration July 8 - Renee Matthews July 15 - Michael Salinger, Larry Smith July 22 -Art Crimes 21 Publication Party and Reading by Contributors July 29 - Jack McGuane 79th Birthday Party and Reading And Chris Franke with Birthday Reading for his father August 5 - Gina Tabasso, and Elise Geither August 12 -- Miles Budimir August 19 - Geoff Landis and Mary Turzillo August 26 -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:20:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Sergio Barrale and Christophe Casamassima in NYC Comments: To: lucipo listserv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi, friends, If you're in NYC please check out the following event. I'd love to see you = all there. The Trial: A Historic Response to Contemporary Witch Hunts by artists Sergio Barrale and Christophe Casamassima Opening Reception: Thursday July 6th 6-9pm Exhibition Dates: Thursday July 6th - Thursday July 27th Tribes Gallery presents the work of artists Sergio Barrale and Christophe C= asamassima in =93The Trial: A Historic Response to Contemporary Witch Hunts= .=94=20 Using images and text associated with the Joan of Arc trial Barrale and Cas= amassima contextualized contemporary witch hunts and clandestine trials inv= olving political prisoners of faith. In amazingly detailed pencil drawings on mammoth-sized canvases Barrale rec= reates the faces of Joan of Arc=92s jury from Carl Dreyer=92s 1928 film =93= Passion de Jeanne d=92Arc. Sergio Barrale (410) 627-5758 sbarrale@hotmail.c= om Casamassima's drawings are made up of layer upon layer of handwriting that = responds to the accounts of Joan of Arc's jury. They are never erased, but,= as we've seen throughout history, testimonials evolve into myth, and the o= riginal (lost in the translation, so to speak, as Casamassima =93writes=94 = in English) becomes illegible. Its sense resembles faith and scrutiny, that= is, opposites, and that experience is happening immediately on paper. (410= ) 718-6574 furniture_press@graffiti.net The opening reception on Thursday July 6th from 6 to 9pm will feature music= ians performing Gregorian chants and classical music. The reception will al= so feature poets inspired by the life and trials of Joan of Arc as well as = those who have faced their own trials on Guantanamo Bay. About Tribes Gallery: The gallery at Tribes mounts a new show of contempora= ry artwork every month. Each exhibition embraces different media and themes= , from photographs celebrating jazz to high-tech installations evoking dyst= opia. Artists are chosen by the gallery for their innovative use of materia= ls or treatment of subject, for a vision that grows out of a sense of commu= nity, and for artistic excellence.=20 Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:47:20 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: new(ish) on rob's clever blog Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new(ish) on rob's clever blog -- The League of Canadian Poets: Ottawa agm -- LETTERS BOOKSHOP, 77 FLORENCE STREET 104, TORONTO M6K 1P4 -- The History of the World & Leonard Cohen -- Poetics.ca #6 (finally!) now on-line -- Ongoing notes: The Toronto Small Press Book Fair (chapbook/ephemera edition) -- Toronto report: -- Vile lego (collaboration with Gregory Betts) -- every edit is a lie (poem) -- Ongoing Notes: late late May, 2006 (Larissa Lai's Nascent Fashion, MODL Press; Barbara Jane Reyes' Poeta en San Francisco, Tinfish; Geoffrey Young's fickle sonnets, Fuck A Duck; Norther, eds. budde & f.; Laurier Poetry Series) -- Lisa Robertson: The Men & The Chicago Review -- The Factory Reading Series + The League of Canadian Poets -- Conundrum Press, Montreal: 10 whole years -- a poetic portrait uv bill bissett -- shades of the new concrete: derek beaulieu and Donato Mancini -- a whole pile of (finally) new + recent poetry chapbooks from above/ground press -- a brief note on the poetry of Joshua Marie Wilkinson -- Ottawa: The Unknown City www.robmclennan.blogspot.com + some other new things at ottawa poetry newsletter, www.ottawapoetry.blogspot.com -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:52:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Steve -- so typing ain't yr strong suit -- is the title of your book in fact THE COMPLETE NOTES OF A CHARLES GAYLE NOTE BOOK THE FINAL NIGHT? and would that indicate a large quantity of Gayle-related poetry? it sounds post-concert, at any rate -- On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:23:13 +0000, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > enough PM already fellas > > > just buy my new book 247 pages 8 color inserts > > the complete notes of a charles gayle note book hte final nite > > ugly duck presse 15 bucks it's definitely post-something > > > dalachinsky > > and where's that donated lap top i so desparately need > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:48:27 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Mark Weiss" > Quaint to think that there was a time when Jews Moslems and Christians > were gathered under one tent. As I said, a long history. The common use of > the term, by presidents and other public speakers and casually by almost > all of us, has little to do with Ruth Benedict. I never said Jews, Christians and Moslems held identical views, Mark. (Both Jews and Moslems, as you pointed out with regard to Judaism, would see the Christian Trinity as not that much different from polytheism). I don't think Ruth Benedict uses the term as such, but her gult culture/shame culture distinction seems to be another take on it. I'd be happy to drop the term if you can come up with something else to describe the same phenomenon -- the NT coming out of the OT, and to a lesser degree, aspects of the Koran coming out of both. I just find it useful to point to something I think does exist. > I don't expect the term to become non-PC; it bugs me nonetheless. > Hopefully we can play nicely together without pretending away difference. Um ... I feel I'm being straw-manned here. And I dunno that it's PC. What would be the non-PC version of it if it were? Just asking. Robin >>>On a purely theological level, anyone who believes that god had a son (or >>>even entertains the belief as a metaphor) is in a different tent in a >>>different world. Jews disagree with each other obsessively, but not about >>>this. >>> >>>Mark >> >>Sure, Mark, but isn't it also used to distinguish guilt cultures (the >>people[s] of the Book[s] -- Jewish, Christian, and Moslem) from shame >>cultures? Ruth Benedict in +The Chrysanthemum and the Sword+ started >>this, I think. >> >>Robin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:02:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: any one want this book? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a friend who recently finished filming in Romania ( a German co. = made horror film soon to be released); on her way home and in a bit of a = rush, she zipped through the airport in Bucharest and grabbed a few = items to give as gifts to her friends here at home.=20 She gave me, thinking it was a book of Romanian poetry, the following:=20 Romanian Poetry in English Translation (1740 -1996) an annotated = bibliography and census collectively by Charles M. Carlton, Thomas Amherst Perry, and Stefan Stoenescu The volume is listed as "...the indispensable guide for locating English = language translations of Romanian Poetry." =20 While I don't dispute that point, I find the volume wasted in my hands. = Any one interested in receiving the book (free, of course, and yes, I'll = pay the postage as well) back channel and provide an address reachable = by U.S. Postal Services. Alex ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:57:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: ELSEWHERE 2: "Coney Island Avenue" In-Reply-To: <20060616.113758.-165631.10.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit at least as much as o'hara was born on second ave. On Jun 16, 2006, at 8:37 AM, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > was she born on coney island ave ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:20:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: any one want this book? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'll take it if it's still available. THANKS, Stephen Russell 2023 Park Rd, NW Washington, D.C. 20010 alexander saliby wrote: I have a friend who recently finished filming in Romania ( a German co. made horror film soon to be released); on her way home and in a bit of a rush, she zipped through the airport in Bucharest and grabbed a few items to give as gifts to her friends here at home. She gave me, thinking it was a book of Romanian poetry, the following: Romanian Poetry in English Translation (1740 -1996) an annotated bibliography and census collectively by Charles M. Carlton, Thomas Amherst Perry, and Stefan Stoenescu The volume is listed as "...the indispensable guide for locating English language translations of Romanian Poetry." While I don't dispute that point, I find the volume wasted in my hands. Any one interested in receiving the book (free, of course, and yes, I'll pay the postage as well) back channel and provide an address reachable by U.S. Postal Services. Alex --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there’s much more to come. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:32:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: postmodernism?/ Debord et al In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thank you for noting Roubaud--I know some of his work and have read excerpts from the new book. The amount of writing done on the experience of walking around the "modern" city in the West and later the East is staggering. (Yes, a lot of the walking WAS staggering, too!) I am planning to reread one of the first--and if memory serves, one of the best in many strange ways --Thomas De Quincey's CONFESSIONS OF AN ENGLISH OPIUM EATER. It sets the stage so to speak for so many city walking/seeing/thinking/writing books which make use of altered states of consciousness brought on by hunger, lack of sleep, homelessness, drugs, alcohol, etc. Simply prolonged compulsive walking--dromomania--can begin to cause altered states, especially when the senses are enervated by the super abundance of stimuli in a city. Debord's "Theory of the Derive" which you can find on line does caution against too prolonged a period of such actiivity. There are far too many examples to go into--a few off the top of one's head of early books are Poe's story "The Man of the Crowd", Whitman, Thoreau's "Walking", though not a city walking, if one thought of it as applied to city walking it can make for many interesting things, HUNGER by Knunt Hamsun and the St Petersburg-set novels and tales of Gogol and Dostoyevsky, as well as the works of Baudelaire and Nerval's AURELIA and many of Rimbaud's works. Rimbaud himself was a classic dromomaniac--a fanatic walker in cities--especially London-- and across Eoropean landscapes including the Alps and previously non-European-explored areas in Abyssinia. A very good Oulipo city book is Georges Perec SPECIES OF SPACES AND OTHER PLACES, as am sure you know. A very good and interesting book is Michel de Certeau's THE PRACTICE OF EVERDAY LIFE. This has many ideas of subversion carried out via infiltration through "tactics" of the most ordinary and hence seemingly "innocent" sort. Another very interesting aspect of his thinking is that it cannot be mapped--what he is writing of is fugitive in nature. This is quite different from the mapping tendency in many other approaches to thinking about walking/the arts/the city in all sorts of situations and contexts, the derive included. Two other very interesting books are Kristin Ross' THE EMERGENCE OF SOCIAL SPACE Rimbaud and the Paris Commune (U Minn P, 1988) and ART AND THE FRENCH COMMUNE Imagning Paris After War and Revolution by Albert Boime (Princeton, 1995). In the former, Ross shows how the Commune permeates and inhabits the work of Rimbaud, creating both new forms of social space and poetic spaces. In the latter, Boime examines the ways in which both architecture and the promotion of Impressionism were used to create a new vision of Paris in which that of the defeat in war with Prussia and most especially the bloodbath of the Commune could be effectively expunged from historical memory. Interestingly, Ross has written another very good book MAY '68 AND ITS AFTERLIVES which examines the ways in which the original questions and actions and politics of May '68 have been shifted with time away from these to a much more presentable representation of it culturally--again, a form of expunging a history in favor of bright colors and glorious notalgia. In my own art work and walking etc in the city I think I work somewhat the inverse of yourself. I'm guided by Picasso: "I don't seek, I find" and Paul Celan: "Poetry no longer imposes itself, it exposes itself." It's not intended to be elegiac, invasive, or romantic and poliitically it's expressed in the line of Francois Villon as "Parcial suis a toutes luys commun"--"I'm biased against all laws equally" (or "impartially"). (Maybe he's not a good example--after all he was banished from the city, Paris --and never heard from again!) "Honi soit qui mal y pense" (to see the works i mean you can google my name david baptiste chirot or, though have added nothing new in while, a great deal there in archives--abt 200 pieces & some essays etc----davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com) >From: Stephen Vincent >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: postmodernism?/ Debord et al >Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:41:35 -0700 > >Thanks, David, for all these book refs re the Situationists! > >Curious how Jacque Roubaud's approach to Paris fits or does not fit into >the >Situationist spirit. I suspect his Oulipo frame does not fit well into >concrete interruptions of an urban space - tho I think he is interrupting >it >- at least - on a metaphysical level. >I am speaking here primarily on an intuitive level. I have done so many >different kinds of walks in this City with serendipitously different kinds >of intentions (elegiac to invasive to romantic to political, etc.), I get >overwhelmed with aphasia when it comes to restating my previous reading of >any 'orthodox' approaches to urban space- if 'orthodox' is finally even >fair >to Debord at all. > >Stephen V >http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ >Currently home of the Tenderly series, >A serial work in progress. > > > > > > > > > > The problem with email is the tone of humor doesnt travel well. I'm > > sorry you misunderstood my intention. > > I lived in France 1967-8, again 69 and 70, 78 so great many of the > > events and ideas a great part of my "formative years". > > > > A very good book about Debord and the SI's relationship with Asger >Jorn > > and the arts is ON THE PASSAGE OF A FEW PEOPLE THROUGH A RATHER BRIEF >MOMENT > > IN TIME : THE SITUATIONIST INTERNATIONAL 1957-72 MIT Press 1989, >paperback > > 1991 > > from an exhibition at Centre Pompidou, Paris, ICA, London and ICA, >Boston > > 1989-90 excellent essays and illustrations. > > > > > >> From: Christopher Leland Winks > >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: Re: postmodernism? > >> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:05:00 -0400 > >> > >> This bit about "influences" on Debord (doubtless with their attendant > >> anxieties) should be qualified: equally important to Guy were folks > >> like the great Danish artist and theorist Asger Jorn, Lettrists Gil > >> Wolman and Ivan Chtcheglov, and of course many of his own comrades > >> during the existence of the Situationist International. > >> > >> I really think the comparison of Debord with Stalin is frivolous in > >> the worst way -- after all, Guy never killed anybody (and when French > >> gutter journalism tried to implicate him in the murder of his friend > >> Gerard Lebovici, he successfully sued for libel). As with Andre > >> Breton, Debord has been dumped on by any number of variously- > >> intentioned critics for his rigor in personal and political > >> relationships. But I say -- let those who have never broken with > >> anyone in their lives cast the first stone. And regarding "obsessive > >> attacks on Stalin" -- substitute "Hitler" for "Stalin" in that phrase > >> and the extent of its hollowness becomes patent. One can never attack > >> dictators enough! > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's >FREE! > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:37:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: any one want this book? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, Sorry, too late...Deborah Reich beat all requestors. Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: steve russell=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 1:20 PM Subject: Re: any one want this book? I'll take it if it's still available. THANKS, Stephen Russell 2023 Park Rd, NW Washington, D.C. 20010 alexander saliby > wrote: I have a friend who recently finished filming in Romania ( a German = co. made horror film soon to be released); on her way home and in a bit = of a rush, she zipped through the airport in Bucharest and grabbed a few = items to give as gifts to her friends here at home.=20 She gave me, thinking it was a book of Romanian poetry, the following: = Romanian Poetry in English Translation (1740 -1996) an annotated = bibliography and census collectively by Charles M. Carlton, Thomas Amherst Perry, and Stefan Stoenescu The volume is listed as "...the indispensable guide for locating = English language translations of Romanian Poetry."=20 While I don't dispute that point, I find the volume wasted in my = hands.=20 Any one interested in receiving the book (free, of course, and yes, = I'll pay the postage as well) back channel and provide an address = reachable by U.S. Postal Services. Alex =20 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus = there's much more to come. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:52:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Andrei Codrescu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Andrei Codrescu is among the poets whose work is currently represented at POETS HOUSE at 72 Spring St in SoHo. Call POETS HOUSE for details. (212) 431-7920 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:17:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: postmodernism?/ Debord et al In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit David - thank you for your ever so generous overview of walking lit (all puns intended!) And you managed to do it - re France - without mentioning Proust, Benjamin and Breton - who, I suspect, you would agree are also essential to the urban bedrock of various kinds of walking and interpreting city spaces. Excuse me if sounded arbitrary about the kinds and intentions that may or may not inform my walks. I don't set out to take a romantic, elegiac, political, etc. walk. Whatever happens - as an experience or as writing - is a consequence of the walk, not an intention to make it x, y, or so. To be open is the operative position. The outcomes are serendipitous. I wish - as I have probably said here before - that much academic learning could peripatetic and extra-mural, or a substantial element of any curriculum. The often sterile monotony of the boxy classroom I often find in no way as intellectually provocative as learning that emerges from from the stimulus of pilgrimage. I just finished leading a walking & writing class in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco, including the Oceana collection at new De Young Museum - and that was a joy. Rule one, no talking for the first hour (writing yes), and then the responses and interpretations, etc. But that's a longer story. Thanks again for your reading refs (practically 'staggering.' Many are familiar, almost as friends, many were new and thanks very much for that. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Currently home of the Tenderly series, A serial work in progress. > In my own art work and walking etc in the city I think I work > somewhat the inverse of yourself. I'm guided by Picasso: "I don't seek, I > find" and Paul Celan: "Poetry no longer imposes itself, it exposes itself." > It's not intended to be elegiac, invasive, or romantic and poliitically > it's expressed in the line of Francois Villon as "Parcial suis a toutes luys > commun"--"I'm biased against all laws equally" (or "impartially"). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:50:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Happy Bloom's Day Comments: cc: "Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Since it is still June 16 in San Francisco and since no one else has come forth, I will say Happy Bloom's Day everyone! Two readings going on in the City into the night - they will be hot ones: the nearly full moon is upside down and the thermometer is way the hell up there. Gee Molly! Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Currently home of the Tenderly series, A serial work in progress. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:03:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: FLUXLIST: Bloomsday News Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Begin forwarded message: > From: "Allan Revich" > Date: June 16, 2006 4:09:09 PM CDT > To: "FLUXLIST" > Subject: FLUXLIST: Bloomsday News > Reply-To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com > > By Kevin Cullen, Globe Staff | June 16, 2006 > > In what some see as a mark of respect, and some Joycean purists =20 > consider sacrilege, official commemorations marking Bloomsday, the =20 > single day in 1904 that forms the narrative in James Joyce=92s great =20= > novel =91=91Ulysses,=92=92 have been canceled today in Dublin because = they =20 > coincide with the funeral and burial of Charles J. Haughey, =20 > Ireland=92s most colorful and controversial prime minister. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------=20= > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Stately, plump Buck Mulligan came from the stairhead, bearing a =20 > bowl of lather on which a mirror and a razor lay crossed. A yellow =20 > dressinggown, ungirdled, was sustained gently behind him on the =20 > mild morning air. He held the bowl aloft and intoned: > > --Introibo ad altare Dei. > > Buck Mulligan peeped an instant under the mirror and then covered =20 > the bowl smartly. > > --Back to barracks! he said sternly. > > Buck Mulligan's gay voice went on. > > --My name is absurd too: Malachi Mulligan, two dactyls. But it has =20 > a Hellenic ring, hasn't it? Tripping and sunny like the buck =20 > himself. We must go to Athens. Will you come if I can get the aunt =20 > to fork out twenty quid? > > He turned abruptly his grey searching eyes from the sea to =20 > Stephen's face. > > --The aunt thinks you killed your mother, he said. That's why she =20 > won't let me have anything to do with you. > > O that awful deepdown torrent O and the sea the sea crimson =20 > sometimes like fire and the glorious sunsets and the figtrees in =20 > the Alameda gardens yes and all the queer little streets and the =20 > pink and blue and yellow houses and the rosegardens and the =20 > jessamine and geraniums and cactuses and Gibraltar as a girl where =20 > I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair =20 > like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he =20= > kissed me under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as =20 > another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then =20= > he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I =20 > put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel =20= > my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes =20= > I said yes I will Yes. There's many a bestseller that could have been prevented by a good =20 teacher. --Flannery O'Connor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:42:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Got creative resistance? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit How to defeat terrorism? Don't be terrorized. Don't let fear rule your life. Even if you are scared. - Salman Rushdie "The Senate Judiciary Committee approved a constitutional amendment that would empower Congress to outlaw flag burning." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/16/washington/16brfs-008.html?_r=1&oref=slogin "Evidence found by police officers who enter a home to execute a search warrant without first following the requirement to 'knock and announce' can be used at trial despite that constitutional violation, the Supreme Court ruled on Thursday." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/16/washington/16scotus.html "Roman Catholic bishops in the United States voted yesterday to change the wording of many of the prayers and blessings that Catholics have recited at daily Mass for more than 35 years, yielding to Vatican pressure for an English translation that is closer to the original Latin....For example, instead of saying, 'Lord, I am not worthy to receive you,' in the prayer before Communion, they will say, 'Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/16/us/16mass.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:02:30 -0400 Reply-To: junction@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: postmodernism? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin: It's not that big a deal. It's the standard weaselly political use, and the being co-opted (I hate being co-opted) that I find annoying, but I find a lot of things annoying. My memory of the shame/guilt culture thing doesn't include Moslems, tho perhaps it should. An interesting topic in itself. It always seemed to me to be trying to explainb too much with a simple dichotomy, and none too precisely. The "we" of course refers to all us children. Mark -----Original Message----- >From: Robin Hamilton >Sent: Jun 16, 2006 1:48 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: postmodernism? > >From: "Mark Weiss" > >> Quaint to think that there was a time when Jews Moslems and Christians >> were gathered under one tent. As I said, a long history. The common use of >> the term, by presidents and other public speakers and casually by almost >> all of us, has little to do with Ruth Benedict. > >I never said Jews, Christians and Moslems held identical views, Mark. (Both >Jews and Moslems, as you pointed out with regard to Judaism, would see the >Christian Trinity as not that much different from polytheism). I don't >think Ruth Benedict uses the term as such, but her gult culture/shame >culture distinction seems to be another take on it. > >I'd be happy to drop the term if you can come up with something else to >describe the same phenomenon -- the NT coming out of the OT, and to a lesser >degree, aspects of the Koran coming out of both. I just find it useful to >point to something I think does exist. > >> I don't expect the term to become non-PC; it bugs me nonetheless. >> Hopefully we can play nicely together without pretending away difference. > >Um ... I feel I'm being straw-manned here. And I dunno that it's PC. >What would be the non-PC version of it if it were? > >Just asking. > >Robin > >>>>On a purely theological level, anyone who believes that god had a son (or >>>>even entertains the belief as a metaphor) is in a different tent in a >>>>different world. Jews disagree with each other obsessively, but not about >>>>this. >>>> >>>>Mark >>> >>>Sure, Mark, but isn't it also used to distinguish guilt cultures (the >>>people[s] of the Book[s] -- Jewish, Christian, and Moslem) from shame >>>cultures? Ruth Benedict in +The Chrysanthemum and the Sword+ started >>>this, I think. >>> >>>Robin ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:28:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Aldon and George -- Re: is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <1BEEF4FE-FBCA-11DA-BDCD-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aldon, Well, Chinese is ideomatic, as you know. Because of characters, Mandarin cannot easily create new words for new concepts. Also, it does not easily accept new words from languages because of its use of characters. Four years in China, one hopes, has taught me something (useful). aj --- George Bowering wrote: > Yeah, that's a new one on me, too. > > gb > > > On 14-Jun-06, at 7:06 AM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > don't have a clue as to what you mean by saying > that English is > > "detail-oriented" and that some other languages > are not -- > > > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:41:36 +0000, Alexander > Jorgensen wrote: > > > >> Great! > >> > >> If anything, in addition to its flexibility and > >> disposition towards absorbtion of traits > belonging to > >> other tongues and cultures, English, among the > many > >> languages, is detail-oriented (which many simply > >> aren't--Mandarin is just one example). > >> > >> AJ > >> > >> --- > >> Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of > virtue. Good art can > >> NOT be > > immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true > witness, I mean the > > art that is > > most precise. -- Ezra Pound > >> > >> > __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > >> > >> > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>> > > > > "Breaking in bright > Orthography . . ." > > --Emily > Dickinson > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > > George H. Bowering > Fears a symmetrical oyster. > --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 07:26:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Happy Bloom's Day In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Yeah, but no Bloomsday in Dublin, strangely: http://tinyurl.com/l3h8g On 6/16/06, Stephen Vincent wrote: > Since it is still June 16 in San Francisco and since no one else has come > forth, I will say Happy Bloom's Day everyone! Two readings going on in the > City into the night - they will be hot ones: the nearly full moon is upside > down and the thermometer is way the hell up there. > > Gee Molly! > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Currently home of the Tenderly series, > A serial work in progress. > -- http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:21:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: ELSEWHERE 2: "Coney Island Avenue" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ah well so much for imagined and real childhoods ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:40:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: postmodernism? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit reverse the final nite etc 20 pages worth of gayle related poems from 1987 -2006 with 8 color inserts of photo/collages of gayle book can also be gotten directly from me ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:46:31 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: walking? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit and don't forget Athol Fugard's "Boesman and Lena, theatre of the absurd. _http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0403/is_n4_v39/ai_16087648_ (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0403/is_n4_v39/ai_16087648) Mary ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:47:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Aldon and George -- Re: is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Not sure I entirely follow this, though I take due note of the elastice qualifier "easily" below. What is it about ideomatic characters that should make it difficult to add new words? On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:28:06 +0000, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: > Aldon, > > Well, Chinese is ideomatic, as you know. Because of > characters, Mandarin cannot easily create new words > for new concepts. Also, it does not easily accept new > words from languages because of its use of characters. > > Four years in China, one hopes, has taught me > something (useful). > aj > > --- George Bowering wrote: > > > Yeah, that's a new one on me, too. > > > > gb > > > > > > On 14-Jun-06, at 7:06 AM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > > > don't have a clue as to what you mean by saying > > that English is > > > "detail-oriented" and that some other languages > > are not -- > > > > > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:41:36 +0000, Alexander > > Jorgensen wrote: > > > > > >> Great! > > >> > > >> If anything, in addition to its flexibility and > > >> disposition towards absorbtion of traits > > belonging to > > >> other tongues and cultures, English, among the > > many > > >> languages, is detail-oriented (which many simply > > >> aren't--Mandarin is just one example). > > >> > > >> AJ > > >> > > >> --- > > >> Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of > > virtue. Good art can > > >> NOT be > > > immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true > > witness, I mean the > > > art that is > > > most precise. -- Ezra Pound > > >> > > >> > > __________________________________________________ > > >> Do You Yahoo!? > > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > "Breaking in bright > > Orthography . . ." > > > --Emily > > Dickinson > > > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > > The Pennsylvania State University > > > 116 Burrowes > > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > > > > > George H. Bowering > > Fears a symmetrical oyster. > > > > > --- > Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:16:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: reading series In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Every Saturday At Noon Poetry Reading at Gallery 324 in the Galleria downtown Cleveland, Ohio June 17 - Robert McDonough June 24 - Shelly Rankin, & Geraldine Hardin Washington July 1 - No Reading -- break for inspiration July 8 - Renee Matthews July 15 - Michael Salinger and Larry Smith July 22 - Art Crimes 21 Publication Party and Reading by Any Art Crimes Contributors July 29 - Jack McGuane 79th Birthday Party and Reading, & Chris Franke with Birthday Reading for his father August 5 - Gina Tabasso, and Elise Geither August 12 - Miles Budimir, Ben Rader, and Mark Hersman August 19 - Geoff Landis and Mary Turzillo August 26 - Johanna Fuhrman and Women of the Season September 2 - September 9 - September 16 - September 30 - ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:43:36 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: up start radio: lord patch & the giver MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.upstartradio.com/Internet%20Radio%20Broadcast.html about upstart radio Born on the 4th of July. Upstart Radio America began airing on July 4, 2003. Continuing 3 years of internet broadcasting, Upstart Radio was re-launched on our own server in June 2006. Non-sponsored, non-censored & advertisement free. Thanks to the support of friends, listeners, contributing artists and independent producers, Upstart Radio continues to provide alternate and NEW MEDIA for the masses. To contribute your music, poem or program to Upstart Radio, email lennonvideo at sbcglobal dot net. Upstart Radio is a member of the Atlantica Radio Network. play list and links http://www.upstartradio.com/Playlist%20%26%20Links.html http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/11/7632.php ___ Stay Strong \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" \ "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:31:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ganick Subject: 4 new blue lion books announced Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit BLUE LION BOOKS, a print-on-demand publisher of experimental literature, would like to announce the publication of: > myesis, vols. 1 and 2, Jim Leftwich > Hotel di Roma, J Hayes Hurley > In the Weaver's Valley, Bill Allegrezza > The books are described in greater detail and > may be purchased at: > www.cafepress.com/bluelionbooks66 > For those interested in our Backlist. it is as follows: > (no subject), Jukka-Pekka Kervinen > thetextasifsuch, Jim Leftwich > Motion and Rest, J Hayes Hurley > why: ...1, ...2, ...3, ...4, Peter Ganick > Post Empire, Scott MacLeod > 0x03, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen > Structure of Experience, Peter Ganick > la M al, John M Bennett > Proletariaria, vols 1 and 2, Kevin Magee > Submissions of poetry manuscripts, 250pp+, > can be sent anytime to: > Peter Ganick, 181 Edgemont Ave, > West Hartford CT, 06110-1005, USA > or: > Jukka-Pekka Kervinen, 2 A 4 Tartarie, > Espoo Finland 02620 > or: > Submissions of experimental fiction, 250pp+. > can be sent anytime to > J Hayes Hurley > 367 Waterville Road, Avon CT 06001, USA > Look for our listing soon in the Council of Lit- > erary Magazines and Publishers' database and > 2007 print list of publishers. > For detailed information about submission > policy and mission statement, please go to: > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:09:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Get yer Y=A=Y=A='=S out... Judith Goldman and Brian Kim Stefans reading at New Langton Arts in SF Comments: cc: ubuweb@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Kunin , Bill Marsh , Douug Nufer , Mara Galvez , Jibade-Khalil Huffman , nwf@brown.edu, Lindsay Stefans , Melissa Reeder , Jennifer McCabe , Peter Segerstrom , Roger Pao , Stephanie Sanditz , Small Press Traffic , Stephanie Young , talan@memmott.org, travis ortiz , Matias Viegener , Walter Lew , John D Zuern , Alex Sears In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith Goldman and Brian Kim Stefans Thursday 22 Jun 2006 8 pm $8 general, $5 Langton members, students and seniors. http://www.newlangtonarts.org/ Judith Goldman investigates timely issues about border-crossings. All aboard!, you rightful, legitimate boarders at board, for Civilian Border Patrol: A tragicomic novel-policy on bioPiracy, featuring border-crossing; water-boarding; embroidering boredom's bordello; particle board; and Particules! Particules! Words and images collide in Brian Kim Stefans' Electronic Writing. At Langton he performs Kluge: A Meditation, an interactive digital poem; shows several short video works including the series Vex; and also reads from his poetry, including In Pines, a poem for two voices. Bios Judith Goldman is the author of Vocoder (2001) and Deathstar/Rico-chet (2006). She is currently finishing a doctorate from Columbia University in English and Comparative Literature and working on Civilian Border Patrol: a tragicomic novel-policy on bioPiracy. Goldman lives and works in Berkeley. Brian Kim Stefans is the author of poetry books including Angry Penguins (2000); Free Space Comix (1998); Gulf (1998); and Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics (2003), a mixed-genre collection of poems, experimental essays, and an interview. Stefans edits arras.net, devoted to new media poetry and poetics, and is a frequent critic for the Boston Review. He lives and works in Brooklyn. These events are supported by Poets & Writers, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:39:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: Aldon and George -- Re: is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <200606171547.LAA25836@webmail15.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aldon, Questions: Are you at all familiar with Mandarin or languages that are idiomatic? How many languages have you studied (either actively or passively)? How much time have you spent abroad--and this meaning traveling, in Bowles' sense, which is very different from, say, being a tourist or going somewhere and supposing one is experiencing what is 'down home'(while being locked into the caste of an entitled visa)? To be honest, and forgive the tone, I tend to see this sort of disingenuous crap too often. At best, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this feeling, it is vulgar. Now, I ask these questions because I've essentially said the same thing two different ways and, I am told, have done so with clarity (and mostly because I don't know you and so therefore wonder how serious you are about your query). Too, I do not know how well, seriously well, you know Han culture. Lots of these things, as you know, are culturally based, our history configuring what it is our mouths need say, need feel, and how so. Let us start with this, AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 03:11:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: How language is the cause of MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline How language is the cause of http://tinyurl.com/oox3e -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 00:27:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: China trip and writer -- INTERESTING, he said In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0606180011na41cb4djd45ae226db2aa0df@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all: Friend of mine and sometime critic of PRC--and he was "shut up" or "shouted down" by Chinese fixture (who happens, ironically enough, and which says something about how 'business is done' in PRC, an local editor for the Economist) at Bookworm Beijing's so-called open mic (hosted dubiously by a Yank, or wonk). And I know, because I was there. He is biking across China. Give it a chance. Follow him and ask questions. He is a talented writer, terribly broke, a Brit, drinking buddy and friend. -- You can track his progress, if you have time. english: http://easyridercn.blog.sohu.com/ chinese: http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1237117501 -- Regards, Alexander Jorgensen --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 00:30:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Aldon and George -- Re: is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <20060618053909.76998.qmail@web53912.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 17-Jun-06, at 10:39 PM, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: > Aldon, > > Questions: > > Are you at all familiar with Mandarin or languages > that are idiomatic? Are not all languages by definition idiomatic? I studied linguistics formally quite a while ago, so maybe you are using the term in a fashion that is peculiar to more recent studies. What does the term mean in your usage here? When I (and the Random House dictionary) was younger, idiomatic meant particular to a language. > George H. Bowering Fears a symmetrical oyster. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:21:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: He Disavows the Circle #00002 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original He Disavows the Circle #00002 even a Woman in reasonable health can journey even in the country, the pentagonal construction even from the Isosceles, that his posterity may even for the wisdom of the Circles. But a wise even the angle of a respectable Triangle in the guard even for the most cautious, always to avoid even in our best regulated and most approximately even to discriminate between different classes, even a Master of Arts in our University even a violent sneeze, has been known before now even intelligence enough for the purposes even to me, a Mathematician of no mean standing, even if you had completed your third year even a well-educated Square; but if no one could even his vacation under close supervision even in the best and purest, is embittered even greater than forty-five minutes even the Dodecagons infected with the innovation. even reached the blossom of youth. To live even at a small party, the company was a pleasure even now indebted for our finest poetry even at our University. The inferior Art even issue some commands in the name even in the households of the Circles, the Women even increased their lead of the other classes even the Convict Class; political power even the utterance of any word denoting Colour even now our Aristocracy looks back even six hundred sides. Art also steps even -- for which purpose you must go even a Polygon, born with any Irregularity even by a sudden change of temperature, resulting even more careless of the wife's pedigree even more than with you, is thought "an excellent even to master Arithmetic enough to enable them even now the least conception of the region even a blank, for a blank implies Space; say, even to the number of a billion, verifying even to be able to contemplate a Straight Line! even to know what a Straight Line is! To see even Circles. Why waste more words? Suffice even I, infinitely superior though I am to you, even at this moment? Stranger. Pooh! what even know what Space is. You think it is of Two even your insides and stomachs, all lying open even a Woman could penetrate. I tell you I come even a Sphere -- which is my proper name even of simplicity. But to me, proficient even the contents of my cabinet, and the two even as the Sphere had said. The further we travel even his own sacred Person, he at last made all even more great, more beautiful, and more closely even the Solids of Spaceland. And even as we even as we, who are now in Space, look down even the noble and adorable Spheres. Sphere. even here, in this region of Three Dimensions, even as your Lordship entered mine, within even granting the facts, they explain them even to a Woman my tale necessarily appeared even in the perfect stillness of the Vacuum even to the realm of Pointland, the Abyss even of the number Two; nor has he a thought even to the Female Sex. How I tried even to Women and Soldiers should the Gospel even if I were a baby, I could not be so absurd even before my own mental vision. One day, about even among the highest Polygonal or Circular even let fall the forbidden terms "the Third even this hard wall that bars me from my freedom, even I -- who have been in Spaceland, and have even I cannot now comprehend it, nor realize it even by Spaceland, Historians; in whose pages August Highland -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 09:46:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Lecturer in Poetry Writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carbondale, Illinois The English Department at Southern Illinois University Carbondale seeks applicants for a one-year, variable appointment at the rank of Lecturer. Responsibilities include a half-time teaching load in Poetry Writing for the fall 2006 and spring 2007 semesters respectively. Applicants must possess relevant teaching experience, and hold the MA/MFA in creative writing. Send letter of application and current c.v. to: Professor Michael Humphries, Chair Department of English Mail Code 4503 Southern Illinois University Carbondale 1000 Faner Dr. Carbondale, IL 62901-4503 Postmark deadline for applications is July 7, 2006. Appointment will begin August 16, 2006. Women and minorities etc. aa/eoe www.siuc.edu/~affact/cola456.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:09:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Majzels Subject: Re: Aldon and George -- Chinese is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <200606171547.LAA25836@webmail15.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed About Chinese writing, I can't agree that Chinese is not elastic. No =20 language that wasn't capable of adapting and evolving, that didn't =20 possess the power to convey complexity and refined feeling, could =20 have survived so long, or produced works of literature of such =20 subtlety and detail, e.g. Dream of the Red Chamber (written in the =20 mid-18th century), a complex psychological novel which certainly =20 rivals Proust. 90% of Chinese characters are ideo-phonograms, i.e. they are made up =20 of 2 components, one which is a radical (modern Chinese -- since 17th =20= c. -- has reduced the radicals or keys to 214) and the other, a =20 phonetic (858 phonetic components). The radicals and phonemes =20 combine to constitute words, and the combinations are virtually =20 limitless. This means that a fluent Chinese reader can usually work =20 out new words. Examples of recent new words in Chinese (sorry if the characters =20 don't come out properly on your comp). =E5=8D=9A=E5=AE=A2=EF=BC=9A b=C3=B3k=C3=A8 : blogger where bo means __universal, wide coverage__ (a Ph.D. is a boshi: a =20 literate person with knowledge) and ke means __guest__. =E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=EF=BC=9A h=C3=B9li=C3=A1nw=C7=8Eng : = internet =EF=BC=88this is an older word than blogger, but still a good example of = =20 adaptation to the new world of telecommunications) hu means _mutual, one another_; lian means _to link, to have a =20 relationship_; and wang means _a net, a network_. =E7=BB=A9=E4=BC=98=E8=82=A1=EF=BC=9A j=C3=ACy=C5=8Dug=C7=94: blue chip j i=3D achievements; you =3D superior; gu =3D share in a company, stocks = =20 (original meaning was _thigh, section_) =E5=9F=BA=E5=9B=A0=E7=BB=84: j=C4=ABy=C4=ABnz=C7=94: genome jiyin =3D here the choice is homophonic (jiyin sounds like gene), but =20= the characters choice is not aleatory because ji=3Dbase and yin=3Dfactor, = =20 cause. zu =3D group Of course, like anywhere else, some words are simply adopted from =20 English without any transformation, e.g. hip hop. What may annoy some =20= Americans is that, unlike the French, and many other European =20 peoples, the Chinese language isn't quite at risk of dissolving and =20 disappearing under the imperial pressure of English. But that's =20 another discussion. Robert Majzels majzelsr@sympatico.ca On 17-Jun-06, at 11:47 AM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > Not sure I entirely follow this, though I take due note of the =20 > elastice > qualifier "easily" below. What is it about ideomatic characters =20 > that should > make it difficult to add new words? > > > On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:28:06 +0000, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: > >> Aldon, >> >> Well, Chinese is ideomatic, as you know. Because of >> characters, Mandarin cannot easily create new words >> for new concepts. Also, it does not easily accept new >> words from languages because of its use of characters. >> >> Four years in China, one hopes, has taught me >> something (useful). >> aj >> >> --- George Bowering wrote: >> >>> Yeah, that's a new one on me, too. >>> >>> gb >>> >>> >>> On 14-Jun-06, at 7:06 AM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >>> >>>> don't have a clue as to what you mean by saying >>> that English is >>>> "detail-oriented" and that some other languages >>> are not -- >>>> >>>> On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:41:36 +0000, Alexander >>> Jorgensen wrote: >>>> >>>>> Great! >>>>> >>>>> If anything, in addition to its flexibility and >>>>> disposition towards absorbtion of traits >>> belonging to >>>>> other tongues and cultures, English, among the >>> many >>>>> languages, is detail-oriented (which many simply >>>>> aren't--Mandarin is just one example). >>>>> >>>>> AJ >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of >>> virtue. Good art can >>>>> NOT be >>>> immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true >>> witness, I mean the >>>> art that is >>>> most precise. -- Ezra Pound >>>>> >>>>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>>>> Do You Yahoo!? >>>>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam >>> protection around >>>>> http://mail.yahoo.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20= >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> "Breaking in bright >>> Orthography . . ." >>>> --Emily >>> Dickinson >>>> >>>> Sailing the blogosphere at: >>> http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> Aldon L. Nielsen >>>> Kelly Professor of American Literature >>>> The Pennsylvania State University >>>> 116 Burrowes >>>> University Park, PA 16802-6200 >>>> >>>> (814) 865-0091 >>>> >>>> >>> George H. Bowering >>> Fears a symmetrical oyster. >>> >> >> >> --- >> Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art =20 >> can NOT be > immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the =20= > art that is > most precise. -- Ezra Pound >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20= > >>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 09:24:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: class.htmlmash.php - http://www.lewislacook.org Comments: To: Leiws LaCook , netbehaviour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit class.htmlmash.php a php class that shuffles text on web pages this object grabs text from a google query on my own name a component of The Moon in Lake Erie an artwork-in-progress source soon available under the GNU General Public License *************************************************************************** ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... || http://www.corporatepa.com || Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting Corporate Performance Artists --------------------------------- Why keep checking for Mail? The all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta shows you when there are new messages. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:43:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Marzahl, Kevin M" Subject: Stop Making Sense? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Terminological Precision and Making (Non)Sense In his Notes to =93Being and Event,=94 Alain Badiou--a "militant of truth" --positions himself relative to those of his contemporaries =93who make, for me, some *sense*=94 (482); he notes, too, his proximity to those =93who= search, at base, to bind the care of the political to the opening of poetic experience=94 (483). Among the first names mentioned one finds Derrida, Deleuze, and Lyotard. At the same time, he is open to demonstration or reasoning via the absurd (Med. 24). (Is there not something absurd about the =93terminological precision=94 of Badiou's own dictionary?) Either one is willing to grant that =93Dissemination=94 (a term which recurs with some frequency in B&E) =93makes sense=94 or that Lyotard=92s parables in =93The Inhuman=94 =93make sense=94 or one is not. I appreciate= the "big tent" sentiment, but is there a point at which tolerance prevents or obscures necessary decisions? Put another way, what does poststructuralism do for our =93sense=94 of =93sense=94? I would dispute that any of this is toxic for =93science=94; it seems to me= that =93science=94 could use a good dose of this kind of =93sense.=94 Scie= nce may =93work,=94 in the trivial sense already mentioned: cell phones work, satellites orbit, this message will have been translated and routed, antihistamines prevent my sneezing overmuch, etc. But what =93sense=94 does it make when all of this =93work=94 pushes our ecosystems to=96if not beyond=96their =93natural=94 limits? What =93sense=94 does it make to prod= uce nanoparticles (fullerenes) by the ton when they are capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier and destroying brains? What =93sense=94 does it make to continue contributing to an electronic archive that requires more and more energy every day (a four-story cooling tower built near cheap hydroelectric power in Google=92s latest venture)? What=92s the sense of working? We cannot control the migration of terminology any more than Monsanto can control the spread of Roundup Ready pollen. An example: I have been trying to make sense of Barrett Watten=92s extension of George Lakoff. In =93The Constructivist Moment,=94 one finds at least three terms drawn from Lakoff=92s description of metaphor (although Watten never explicitly acknowledges this): mapping, source and target. Where Lakoff speaks of source and target domains (in the metaphor Life is a Journey, Life is the Target onto which we map, from our Source domain, conventional knowledge about Journeys), Watten says =93source text and target form=94 (31-32). I am not sure what =93sense=94 = this makes, although given the power of Watten=92s thinking as a whole=96especially evident for me in Ch. 6=96I am willing to grant that it makes a =93sense=94 that will become apparent if I give it time. On the other hand, perhaps I=92d rather spend my time putting Lakoff=92s =93empirically responsible=94 terms to work as is. Two quotations for anyone still interested: =93How can one have spent one=92s life with words as defining, indispensable, heavy and light, yet inexact, as those [=91soul,=92 =91mind,= =92 =91spirit,=92 =91body,=92 =91sense,=92 =91world=92]? With words of which o= ne has to admit that one has never understood anything? And to admit this while discharging oneself of any true guilt in the matter?=94 (Derrida, =93On Touching=94 7) =93Although the genuine though never radically clarified idea of philosophy has by no means been completely sacrificed, the multiplicity of philosophies, which can hardly be comprehended any more, nevertheless has the result that it is no longer divided into scientific directions, such that they could still seriously work together, carry on a scientific dialogue through criticism and countercriticism, and still guide the common idea of one science toward the path of realization, in the manner of the directions within modern biology of mathematics and physics; rather, they are contrasted as societies of aesthetic style, so to speak, analogous to the =91directions=92 and =91currents=92 in the fine arts. Indeed, in the splintering of philosophies and their literature, is it still possible at all to study them seriously as works of one science, to make use of them critically and to uphold the unity of the work done? The philosophies have their effects. But must one not honestly say that they have their effects as impressions, that they =91inspire,=92 that they move the feelings like poems, that they arouse vague =91intimations=92?=94 (Husserl, =93Crisis of European Sciences=94 196) Who can distinguish rigorously between, or even define in the first place, a =93philosophical=94 and a =93literary=94 =93effect=94? And a fina= l related question, blending Derrida and Olson: Where is the poetics community as concerns the critter homo sap? Many thanks to those who raise the matter of walking. Yrs in dromomania, Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 03:31:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: reading series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit how do we get there tho? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 03:28:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: walking? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wow fugard boseman and leanna one of my favorites ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:09:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Aldon and George -- Re: is not a foreign language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-ccFsi/ZaJOloq3to6P8b" --=-ccFsi/ZaJOloq3to6P8b Content-Type: text/plain OK -- your very first question already throws us right back into the patch we were trying to get out of -- I am not at all familiar with Mandarin, which is why I was hoping to get an explanation of what you meant instead of all this -- I was thrown off by your spelling in your first post -- or typing (at which I am surely no better) -- but now I see that you truly did mean "idiomatic" and that you clearly are using it in a manner that differs from the usage in my linguistics courses of long ago -- which confusion I see that I share with George -- I know of no languages that are not replete with idiomatic expressions -- you appear to intend "idiomatic" in another sense that I am not familiar with -- so enlighten me -- nor do I know much of Han culture -- but that's not the point here, and I fail to see how anything in my previous question deserves this tantrum ("disingenuous crap"?) Are you suggesting that I cannot possibly understand what you mean unless I already have a deep comprehension of Han culture? What I said was that I was having a problem understanding why the fact that a language is written in ideommatic or idiomatic or whatever you really meant characters should in and of itself be a hindrance to the addition of words to its vocabulary -- I meant it as serious question -- you may have said the same thing twice clearly, but what you said was certainly not an answer to my question -- If you just don't feel inclined to answer, fine -- but that has little or nothing to do with my travels and background -- and seems to have even less to do with a language's being details oriented -- Even the dreaded Wikipedia tells me more than you seem willing to: 'Interestingly, many Chinese characters are likewise idiomatic constructs, as their meanings are more often not traceable to a literal (ie. pictographic) meaning of their assembled parts, or radicals. Because all characters are composed from a relatively small base of about 214 radicals, their assembled meanings follow several different modes of interpretation - from the pictographic to the metaphorical to those whose original meaning has been lost in history.' Now this happens to coincide almost exactly with the meaning of "idiomatic" as I've learned it -- but I still would like to know what this has to do with the difficulty of expanding the vocabulary or being details oriented --- On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:39:09 +0000, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: > Aldon, > > Questions: > > Are you at all familiar with Mandarin or languages > that are idiomatic? > > How many languages have you studied (either actively > or passively)? > > How much time have you spent abroad--and this meaning > traveling, in Bowles' sense, which is very different > from, say, being a tourist or going somewhere and > supposing one is experiencing what is 'down > home'(while being locked into the caste of an entitled > visa)? > > To be honest, and forgive the tone, I tend to see this > sort of disingenuous crap too often. At best, and I'm > sure I'm not alone in this feeling, it is vulgar. > > Now, I ask these questions because I've essentially > said the same thing two different ways and, I am told, > have done so with clarity (and mostly because I don't > know you and so therefore wonder how serious you are > about your query). > > Too, I do not know how well, seriously well, you know > Han culture. Lots of these things, as you know, are > culturally based, our history configuring what it is > our mouths need say, need feel, and how so. > > Let us start with this, > AJ > > > --- > Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > --=-ccFsi/ZaJOloq3to6P8b-- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:44:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Stop Making Sense? In-Reply-To: <20060618134307.gdgyb0drqc8csc44@webmail.iu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit These sorts of considerations as highlighted in the derrida quote, and the description of watten and badiou's considerations (that I have not read), always highlight to me the great travesty that is the fact that Philosophical Investigations wasn't translated into French before poststructuralism got going. No one who's read that book carefully can take this sort of project seriously. just a couple of quotes: (raising the matter of walking): "We have got onto slippery ice where there is no friction and so in a certain sense the conditions are ideal, but also, just because of that, we are not able to walk. We want to walk, so we need friction: back to the rough ground." -Ludwig Wittgenstein PI 107 and "Think of the tools in a tool-box: there is a hammer, pliers, a saw, a screwdriver, a rule, a glue-pot, nails and screws.—The function of words are as diverse as the functions of these objects." PI 11 About reading the few intro-reviews of Being & Event: I'm skeptical given the fact that everyone who writes about it seems to accept that Badiou's work will only be comprehensible to people with advanced training in philosophy. As someone with a little advanced training in philosophy, I have never once encountered any such claim that bore itself out. the answers to the questions philosophy poses, should they exist, should not require post-graduate research, and when such answers make such claims to their comprehensibility they are generally easily dismissed on the sorts of grounds Wittgenstein gives for transmuting bits of patent nonense into bits of plain nonsense. As for the constructivist moment, well, i think the less said by me about that, the better. Suffice it to say I tend to view language theory of that sort with little more than a shrug and a "so what?", particularly given it's unprincipled acceptance of certain class divisions within american culture. If it were very popular, it might be worth arguing against or at least coming to terms with, but as it seems relatively combined to academia, I have no real interest in it. Marzahl, Kevin M wrote: > On Terminological Precision and Making (Non)Sense > > In his Notes to “Being and Event,” Alain Badiou--a "militant of truth" > --positions himself relative to those of his contemporaries “who make, > for me, some *sense*” (482); he notes, too, his proximity to those “who > search, at base, to bind the care of the political to the opening of > poetic experience” (483). Among the first names mentioned one finds > Derrida, Deleuze, and Lyotard. At the same time, he is open to > demonstration or reasoning via the absurd (Med. 24). (Is there not > something absurd about the “terminological precision” of Badiou's own > dictionary?) > > Either one is willing to grant that “Dissemination” (a term which recurs > with some frequency in B&E) “makes sense” or that Lyotard’s parables in > “The Inhuman” “make sense” or one is not. I appreciate the "big tent" > sentiment, but is there a point at which tolerance prevents or obscures > necessary decisions? Put another way, what does poststructuralism do > for our “sense” of “sense”? > > I would dispute that any of this is toxic for “science”; it seems to me > that “science” could use a good dose of this kind of “sense.” Science > may “work,” in the trivial sense already mentioned: cell phones work, > satellites orbit, this message will have been translated and routed, > antihistamines prevent my sneezing overmuch, etc. But what “sense” does > it make when all of this “work” pushes our ecosystems to–if not > beyond–their “natural” limits? What “sense” does it make to produce > nanoparticles (fullerenes) by the ton when they are capable of crossing > the blood-brain barrier and destroying brains? What “sense” does it > make to continue contributing to an electronic archive that requires > more and more energy every day (a four-story cooling tower built near > cheap hydroelectric power in Google’s latest venture)? What’s the sense > of working? > > We cannot control the migration of terminology any more than Monsanto > can control the spread of Roundup Ready pollen. > > An example: I have been trying to make sense of Barrett Watten’s > extension of George Lakoff. In “The Constructivist Moment,” one finds > at least three terms drawn from Lakoff’s description of metaphor > (although Watten never explicitly acknowledges this): mapping, source > and target. Where Lakoff speaks of source and target domains (in the > metaphor Life is a Journey, Life is the Target onto which we map, from > our Source domain, conventional knowledge about Journeys), Watten says > “source text and target form” (31-32). I am not sure what “sense” this > makes, although given the power of Watten’s thinking as a > whole–especially evident for me in Ch. 6–I am willing to grant that it > makes a “sense” that will become apparent if I give it time. On the > other hand, perhaps I’d rather spend my time putting Lakoff’s > “empirically responsible” terms to work as is. > > Two quotations for anyone still interested: > > “How can one have spent one’s life with words as defining, > indispensable, heavy and light, yet inexact, as those [‘soul,’ ‘mind,’ > ‘spirit,’ ‘body,’ ‘sense,’ ‘world’]? With words of which one has to > admit that one has never understood anything? And to admit this while > discharging oneself of any true guilt in the matter?” (Derrida, “On > Touching” 7) > > “Although the genuine though never radically clarified idea of > philosophy has by no means been completely sacrificed, the multiplicity > of philosophies, which can hardly be comprehended any more, nevertheless > has the result that it is no longer divided into scientific directions, > such that they could still seriously work together, carry on a > scientific dialogue through criticism and countercriticism, and still > guide the common idea of one science toward the path of realization, in > the manner of the directions within modern biology of mathematics and > physics; rather, they are contrasted as societies of aesthetic style, so > to speak, analogous to the ‘directions’ and ‘currents’ in the fine > arts. Indeed, in the splintering of philosophies and their literature, > is it still possible at all to study them seriously as works of one > science, to make use of them critically and to uphold the unity of the > work done? The philosophies have their effects. But must one not > honestly say that they have their effects as impressions, that they > ‘inspire,’ that they move the feelings like poems, that they arouse > vague ‘intimations’?” (Husserl, “Crisis of European Sciences” 196) > > Who can distinguish rigorously between, or even define in the first > place, a “philosophical” and a “literary” “effect”? And a final related > question, blending Derrida and Olson: Where is the poetics community as > concerns the critter homo sap? > > Many thanks to those who raise the matter of walking. > > Yrs in dromomania, > > Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:15:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Stop Making Sense? In-Reply-To: <4495D735.5080007@myuw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To clarify: that's is not to say that I'm not interested in Language poetry. Hejinian's My Life is one of my favorite books, and it was with a great deal of childlike glee that I finished reading my printout of Silliman's Chinese Notebook. I just don't find the various Language poets' justification for writing the way they do to be particularly compelling and would much rather interact with their poetry in a more intuitive way. Which is to say, again agreeing with Uncle Ludwig, some things cannot be explained but only shown in language. I think what the critical theory of language poetry fails time and again to explain is generally quite readily shown by the more successful works of various poets working in that tradition. Furthermore, I find when I read someone like Bernstein or Howe with the sorts of foregrounding of materiality and textualness that critics like watten laud, i find the poetry much less interesting than if i just read it like a borgesian map of a nation that could never possibly exist and follow the lines accordingly. Jason Quackenbush wrote: > These sorts of considerations as highlighted in the derrida quote, and > the description of watten and badiou's considerations (that I have not > read), always highlight to me the great travesty that is the fact that > Philosophical Investigations wasn't translated into French before > poststructuralism got going. No one who's read that book carefully can > take this sort of project seriously. just a couple of quotes: > (raising the matter of walking): > "We have got onto slippery ice where there is no friction and so in a > certain sense the conditions are ideal, but also, just because of that, > we are not able to walk. We want to walk, so we need friction: back to > the rough ground." > -Ludwig Wittgenstein PI 107 > > and > > "Think of the tools in a tool-box: there is a hammer, pliers, a saw, a > screwdriver, a rule, a glue-pot, nails and screws.—The function of words > are as diverse as the functions of these objects." > PI 11 > > About reading the few intro-reviews of Being & Event: I'm skeptical > given the fact that everyone who writes about it seems to accept that > Badiou's work will only be comprehensible to people with advanced > training in philosophy. As someone with a little advanced training in > philosophy, I have never once encountered any such claim that bore > itself out. the answers to the questions philosophy poses, should they > exist, should not require post-graduate research, and when such answers > make such claims to their comprehensibility they are generally easily > dismissed on the sorts of grounds Wittgenstein gives for transmuting > bits of patent nonense into bits of plain nonsense. > > As for the constructivist moment, well, i think the less said by me > about that, the better. Suffice it to say I tend to view language theory > of that sort with little more than a shrug and a "so what?", > particularly given it's unprincipled acceptance of certain class > divisions within american culture. If it were very popular, it might be > worth arguing against or at least coming to terms with, but as it seems > relatively combined to academia, I have no real interest in it. > > > > Marzahl, Kevin M wrote: > >> On Terminological Precision and Making (Non)Sense >> >> In his Notes to “Being and Event,” Alain Badiou--a "militant of truth" >> --positions himself relative to those of his contemporaries “who make, >> for me, some *sense*” (482); he notes, too, his proximity to those >> “who search, at base, to bind the care of the political to the opening >> of poetic experience” (483). Among the first names mentioned one >> finds Derrida, Deleuze, and Lyotard. At the same time, he is open to >> demonstration or reasoning via the absurd (Med. 24). (Is there not >> something absurd about the “terminological precision” of Badiou's own >> dictionary?) >> >> Either one is willing to grant that “Dissemination” (a term which >> recurs with some frequency in B&E) “makes sense” or that Lyotard’s >> parables in “The Inhuman” “make sense” or one is not. I appreciate >> the "big tent" sentiment, but is there a point at which tolerance >> prevents or obscures necessary decisions? Put another way, what does >> poststructuralism do for our “sense” of “sense”? >> >> I would dispute that any of this is toxic for “science”; it seems to >> me that “science” could use a good dose of this kind of “sense.” >> Science may “work,” in the trivial sense already mentioned: cell >> phones work, satellites orbit, this message will have been translated >> and routed, antihistamines prevent my sneezing overmuch, etc. But >> what “sense” does it make when all of this “work” pushes our >> ecosystems to–if not beyond–their “natural” limits? What “sense” does >> it make to produce nanoparticles (fullerenes) by the ton when they are >> capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier and destroying brains? >> What “sense” does it make to continue contributing to an electronic >> archive that requires more and more energy every day (a four-story >> cooling tower built near cheap hydroelectric power in Google’s latest >> venture)? What’s the sense of working? >> >> We cannot control the migration of terminology any more than Monsanto >> can control the spread of Roundup Ready pollen. >> >> An example: I have been trying to make sense of Barrett Watten’s >> extension of George Lakoff. In “The Constructivist Moment,” one finds >> at least three terms drawn from Lakoff’s description of metaphor >> (although Watten never explicitly acknowledges this): mapping, source >> and target. Where Lakoff speaks of source and target domains (in the >> metaphor Life is a Journey, Life is the Target onto which we map, from >> our Source domain, conventional knowledge about Journeys), Watten says >> “source text and target form” (31-32). I am not sure what “sense” >> this makes, although given the power of Watten’s thinking as a >> whole–especially evident for me in Ch. 6–I am willing to grant that it >> makes a “sense” that will become apparent if I give it time. On the >> other hand, perhaps I’d rather spend my time putting Lakoff’s >> “empirically responsible” terms to work as is. >> >> Two quotations for anyone still interested: >> >> “How can one have spent one’s life with words as defining, >> indispensable, heavy and light, yet inexact, as those [‘soul,’ ‘mind,’ >> ‘spirit,’ ‘body,’ ‘sense,’ ‘world’]? With words of which one has to >> admit that one has never understood anything? And to admit this while >> discharging oneself of any true guilt in the matter?” (Derrida, “On >> Touching” 7) >> >> “Although the genuine though never radically clarified idea of >> philosophy has by no means been completely sacrificed, the >> multiplicity of philosophies, which can hardly be comprehended any >> more, nevertheless has the result that it is no longer divided into >> scientific directions, such that they could still seriously work >> together, carry on a scientific dialogue through criticism and >> countercriticism, and still guide the common idea of one science >> toward the path of realization, in the manner of the directions within >> modern biology of mathematics and physics; rather, they are contrasted >> as societies of aesthetic style, so to speak, analogous to the >> ‘directions’ and ‘currents’ in the fine arts. Indeed, in the >> splintering of philosophies and their literature, is it still possible >> at all to study them seriously as works of one science, to make use of >> them critically and to uphold the unity of the work done? The >> philosophies have their effects. But must one not honestly say that >> they have their effects as impressions, that they ‘inspire,’ that they >> move the feelings like poems, that they arouse vague ‘intimations’?” >> (Husserl, “Crisis of European Sciences” 196) >> >> Who can distinguish rigorously between, or even define in the first >> place, a “philosophical” and a “literary” “effect”? And a final >> related question, blending Derrida and Olson: Where is the poetics >> community as concerns the critter homo sap? >> >> Many thanks to those who raise the matter of walking. >> >> Yrs in dromomania, >> >> Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:35:18 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Theatrenotes Comments: cc: UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, poetryetc@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi all - Reviews on TN this week - Eldorado by Marius von Mayenburg, directed by Benedict Andrews. The Session written and performed by The Ennio Morricone Experience. Both at the Malthouse Theatre until June 25. A black mirror is a fit metaphor with which to begin this riveting play, a parable about human self-destruction. Marius von Mayenburg presents a vision of humanity as desolate as that of WG Sebald in his novel Vertigo, when he speaks of the slow, inevitable conflagration of the earth: we consume all life on our planet with the creeping flame of desertification or the swift fire of war, leaving behind us a wasteland of ash. Eldorado begins with a monologue murmured by the property speculator Aschenbrenner (Robert Menzies), who leans half-lit against the window, his voice artifically miked so we hear every inflection of his speech. He reports, seductively, tenderly, on the progress of an urban war. It is unsettlingly familiar: the language could be taken from any contemporary news report on the invasion of Baghdad or the destruction of Falluja. Only, it seems, this war is occurring in the same unnamed western city in which our suave businessman is living, not in some distant theatre of conflict in the Middle East or the Third World; this is a play which collapses perspectives of distance and time. It finishes with Aschenbrenner again, but this time he speaks as one of the dead: and now he tells us of a new life on Mars, of atmospheres artificially created by water, where humanity can find a new home. Like Aschenbrenner (whose very name conjures flame and ash), planet Earth is dead. More at http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Circus Oz: Laughing at Gravity tour. At the Big Top at Birrarung Marr until July 9. I have been very spoilt in the past couple of weeks. It is as if Melbourne theatre has decided to show me the best it has to offer, from its tiny alternative theatres to its main stages. And then, just to remind me that vital theatre isn't exactly a new thing here, I found myself in the Big Top at Birrarung Marr, just off Federation Square, watching Circus Oz's latest show. More at http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Apologies for cross-posting All the best Alison -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:58:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Stop Making Sense? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kevin, I appreciate these comments and the ancillary questions more than you = can ever begin to imagine; you have brought into sharper focus for me a = peripheral thought I'd been struggling with for some time regarding the = Post Modern/ Post Structural and perhaps even the Post Menopausal mess = of some thought and commentary here on posted. =20 I'm particularly fond of the thought expressed by these words of yours: = "...What "sense" does it make to produce nanoparticles (fullerenes) by = the ton when they are capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier and = destroying brains? What "sense" does it make to continue contributing = to an electronic archive that requires more energy every day (a = four-story cooling tower built near cheap hydroelectric power in = Google's latest venture)? What's the sense of working?" =20 I rather like that questioning approach, but then I wonder, Isn't the = answer simple: Because, we are people; it's what we do?=20 A few years back, I hiked and came upon a beaver's dam in a stream that = flowed across an Alpine meadow. Land around the dam was bogged and = water-logged forming a wide semi-circular pond almost two acres in area = up stream and behind the damn dam. =20 I was pleased at first, happening upon this pristine residence of one of = nature's own. Then, I sat in water nearly waist deep and looked at the = earth underneath wondering how many critters died in the flood waters = created by the beaver's dam. In those meadows are all sorts of rodents, = countless numbers of non amphibious insects, perhaps some nests from = meadow nesting birds, and then, there was the vegetation that just = didn't like having soggy roots and died from over-watering. =20 Why, one must ask, do beavers do that, create a habitat that results in = the deaths of so many other animals, insects and plants? (And of = course, I've not mentioned here the fact that to make the dam the = beavers nipped to death some pretty healthy aspen trees.) This scene is = repeated countless times in thousands of meadows across the land = annually. =20 The answer of course is equally simple: Because they are beavers; it's = what they do. =20 Do you ever wonder if there are beavers who don't dam streams? Beavers = who speak of eco-system destruction caused by their damn dams? Beavers = who worry about leaving their world a better place than what they were = born into? Beavers who try to teach their young alternative life-styles = and sustainable aqua-culture? =20 Or would that questioning be peculiar to a species who imagines itself = as Stewards, creatures better than the dam-building beaver, rather than = seeing itself as merely another resident of this space in a specific = time? =20 Is there engineering and scientific skill in what the beaver did? Or is = it rather that we elevate science and engineering to a level unworthy; = the knowledge from science (and engineering) might merely be the = accident of activity resulting in providing new skills for the dna to = assimilate, weather practiced in pure environs or learned from actual = experiences? Oh, my...where is Dorothy when we need her? =20 Can life really be nothing more than a complex series of electro, = bio-chemical connections occurring randomly and passed on genetically = through all the myriad of species? But what of Jesus? =20 And what of poetry? What would John Milton say:=20 Of man's first disobedience and of the fruit of that forbidden tree...? Anyway, thanks for the commentary and the questions; I did enjoy the = read.=20 Alex=20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Marzahl, Kevin M=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: Stop Making Sense? On Terminological Precision and Making (Non)Sense In his Notes to "Being and Event," Alain Badiou--a "militant of truth" --positions himself relative to those of his contemporaries "who make, = for me, some *sense*" (482); he notes, too, his proximity to those = "who=20 search, at base, to bind the care of the political to the opening of=20 poetic experience" (483). Among the first names mentioned one finds=20 Derrida, Deleuze, and Lyotard. At the same time, he is open to=20 demonstration or reasoning via the absurd (Med. 24). (Is there not=20 something absurd about the "terminological precision" of Badiou's own=20 dictionary?) Either one is willing to grant that "Dissemination" (a term which=20 recurs with some frequency in B&E) "makes sense" or that Lyotard's=20 parables in "The Inhuman" "make sense" or one is not. I appreciate = the=20 "big tent" sentiment, but is there a point at which tolerance prevents = or obscures necessary decisions? Put another way, what does=20 poststructuralism do for our "sense" of "sense"? I would dispute that any of this is toxic for "science"; it seems to = me=20 that "science" could use a good dose of this kind of "sense." Science = may "work," in the trivial sense already mentioned: cell phones work,=20 satellites orbit, this message will have been translated and routed,=20 antihistamines prevent my sneezing overmuch, etc. But what "sense"=20 does it make when all of this "work" pushes our ecosystems to-if not=20 beyond-their "natural" limits? What "sense" does it make to produce=20 nanoparticles (fullerenes) by the ton when they are capable of = crossing=20 the blood-brain barrier and destroying brains? What "sense" does it=20 make to continue contributing to an electronic archive that requires=20 more and more energy every day (a four-story cooling tower built near=20 cheap hydroelectric power in Google's latest venture)? What's the=20 sense of working? We cannot control the migration of terminology any more than Monsanto=20 can control the spread of Roundup Ready pollen. An example: I have been trying to make sense of Barrett Watten's=20 extension of George Lakoff. In "The Constructivist Moment," one finds = at least three terms drawn from Lakoff's description of metaphor=20 (although Watten never explicitly acknowledges this): mapping, source=20 and target. Where Lakoff speaks of source and target domains (in the=20 metaphor Life is a Journey, Life is the Target onto which we map, from = our Source domain, conventional knowledge about Journeys), Watten says = "source text and target form" (31-32). I am not sure what "sense" = this=20 makes, although given the power of Watten's thinking as a=20 whole-especially evident for me in Ch. 6-I am willing to grant that it = makes a "sense" that will become apparent if I give it time. On the=20 other hand, perhaps I'd rather spend my time putting Lakoff's=20 "empirically responsible" terms to work as is. Two quotations for anyone still interested: "How can one have spent one's life with words as defining,=20 indispensable, heavy and light, yet inexact, as those ['soul,' 'mind,' = 'spirit,' 'body,' 'sense,' 'world']? With words of which one has to=20 admit that one has never understood anything? And to admit this while = discharging oneself of any true guilt in the matter?" (Derrida, "On=20 Touching" 7) "Although the genuine though never radically clarified idea of=20 philosophy has by no means been completely sacrificed, the = multiplicity=20 of philosophies, which can hardly be comprehended any more,=20 nevertheless has the result that it is no longer divided into=20 scientific directions, such that they could still seriously work=20 together, carry on a scientific dialogue through criticism and=20 countercriticism, and still guide the common idea of one science = toward=20 the path of realization, in the manner of the directions within modern = biology of mathematics and physics; rather, they are contrasted as=20 societies of aesthetic style, so to speak, analogous to the=20 'directions' and 'currents' in the fine arts. Indeed, in the=20 splintering of philosophies and their literature, is it still possible = at all to study them seriously as works of one science, to make use of = them critically and to uphold the unity of the work done? The=20 philosophies have their effects. But must one not honestly say that=20 they have their effects as impressions, that they 'inspire,' that they = move the feelings like poems, that they arouse vague 'intimations'?"=20 (Husserl, "Crisis of European Sciences" 196) Who can distinguish rigorously between, or even define in the first=20 place, a "philosophical" and a "literary" "effect"? And a final=20 related question, blending Derrida and Olson: Where is the poetics=20 community as concerns the critter homo sap? Many thanks to those who raise the matter of walking. Yrs in dromomania, Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:39:46 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sam Ladkin Subject: Reading in Cambridge, UK, Thurs 22nd Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Delighted to announce readings by PETER MANSON - REITHA PATTISON - MICHAEL KINDELLAN to celebrate new publications from BARQUE Press and AREHOUSE Thursday, June 22nd. Doors at 7.30, reading to begin at 8pm BOWETT ROOM off Lyon Court (West of the river) Silver Street QUEENS' COLLEGE CAMBRIDGE, UK FREE ENTRY ALL ARE VERY WELCOME Books will be sold. [and please note info about a Salt launch with John Wilkinson and DS =20 Marriott advertised below] to celebrate publication of: FOR THE GOOD OF LIARS Peter Manson (Barque) For the Good of Liars is Peter Manson's first full-length collection =20 of poems and contains work written between 1993 and 2005. GBP =A38.00 / USD $13.00. Available at the reading or from Barque =20 Press: http://www.barquepress.com/liars.html Peter Manson was born in Glasgow in 1969. His publications include =20 me generation (unclassified verbal and visual work, Writers Forum =20 1997), Birth Windows (poems, Barque Press 1999), "Two =20 renga" (collaborations with the poet Elizabeth James, in the Reality =20 Street Editions 4-pack Renga+, 2002), Before and After Mallarm=E9 =20 (translations, Survivors' Press 2005), and Adjunct: an Undigest =20 (prose, Edinburgh Review 2005). An audio CD of extracts from =20 "Adjunct: an Undigest" was released by Stem Recordings in 2004. =20 Peter Manson was the 2005-6 Judith E. Wilson Visiting Fellow in =20 Poetry at Girton College, Cambridge. He co-edits the Object =20 Permanence pamphlet series with Robin Purves. see www.barquepress.com and www.petermanson.com _____________ WORD IS BORN Reitha Pattison and Michael Kindellan (Arehouse) Published with the support of the Institut Francais. Different translations of the same poems by troubadour poet Bertrand =20 de Born, who co-owned a castle, and died in 1215. The translations =20 are parallel, but the French is not included. GBP =A33.50. Available at the reading or from =20 arehouse@cambridgepoetry.org. REITHA PATTISON lives in Cambridge with her partner and baby son. She =20= manages the translations list of a local academic publishing house. Word is Born is her first collection of poetry. "MICHAEL KINDELLAN" is born in Toronto, and lives in London where he =20 is working as a literary agent. Also works for Corriere della Sera =20 and the Cabinet Office. He's published Baudelaire translations =20 through Bad Press, some of which are same again in Quid, and translated Rimbaud's Le Bateau Ivre in Chicago Review, whereat he's =20 contributing editorially. see www.cambridgepoetry.org ________________ Please also note this SALT Press launch: JOHN WILKINSON / D.S. MARRIOTT / IAN GREGSON / TOBIAS HILL An evening to launch the publication of four new collections by these =20= highly-acclaimed British poets. The Gallery, Foyles Bookshop, Charing Cross Road, LONDON JULY 12th 6.30pm FREE ADMISSION Please confirm attendance with Salt, as space is limited. RSVP publicity@saltpublishing.com see http://saltpublishing.com/saline/index.php?topic=3D56.0 thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:16:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: Aldon and George -- Chinese is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: <887BA5DC-9123-4081-8503-CDF63F603A53@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Great stuff, I must say. And I'm aware that some might disagree with what I've stated, which was very general, either for reasons of politics or accuracy (and sometimes in such rows, let me say, it can be difficult to, well, differentiate) -- and I've received some back channel thoughts on this -- including some suggestions that I read particular texts. Whatever the case, as they say, remarks have been informative and, well, appreciated. Now, and certainly I've not done my best work, let me say, with regards to explaining myself, the language used in such explainations and clearly no elaboration has been made, nor examples given. Let us not forget, if you'll give me a moment, that I'm not currently in the comfort of my home or country (so, please, give me some room to work on this thesis more thoughtfully). And no, Simon, who back channelled me and said I was idiotic, no I am not embarrassed -- for either I am correct in my observations, because they are that, me working and teaching in China for four years or, thanks to people like Aldon and George, I will have correct information for next time round. AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:50:32 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Brit Po , New Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS From the old discourse to the new A bibliography from Proprioception by Charles Olson Blindness for profit Theory of Society by Charles Olson Word writing instead of idea writing (Olson and Logography) Lisa Robertson The Men Copyright on MySpace why your work may belong to Rupert Murdoch What is bad poetry, Robert Pinsky? My Spaceship an anthology for out-of-this-world cats Against professionalism: Going to poetry for knowledge of the world Olson and Althusser ideology and the soul Proprioception as dialectics Proprioception Charles Olson’s other major manifesto On 750,000 weblog visitors A shout out to Zoe Strauss, Sylvia Legris, Catherine Wagner, and Robin Kemp The sexual politics of Projective Verse reading DuPlessis reading Olson Charles Olson, Objectivism & T.S. Eliot http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:37:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed after seeing gabbeh i was struck with the easy integration of poetry into everyday life , the laundress singing some as she washed in a stream..i learned that in some countries it would not be at all unusual for people to share poetry at a dinner party and poems set to music were on the country's top ten list. i thought of all that poetry zipping aroung genji and decided to try to do my little bit to make poetry less ghettoized in bookshelves as it often seems to me to be in america. i began stalking my buildings coop president, grilling total strangers in the elevator and this resulted in what is now the 4th annual poety reading in the lobby of 210 east 15th st. in nyc.i was surprised at the talent that turned up and at least 5 books of poetry or more among the crew as well as a clio winning librettist, and a nine year old writing a novel.ron barenberg produced a wonderful record of the poets on manhattanpoets.com .the next reading is 7/9 at 5pm and we expect to have as much fun..susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:04:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 6-19-06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable JUST BUFFALO AND THE ALBRIGHT-KNOX ART GALLERY ANNOUNCE: THE BUFFALO POETRY SLAM CHAMPIONSHIP Friday, July 7, 7 p.m., Clifton Hall, Albright-Knox Art Gallery Admission: =2412, proceeds benefit the Buffalo National Poetry Slam team Ten of the best performance poets Buffalo has to offer are meeting to compe= te for one of four spots on the first ever Buffalo Poetry Slam Team: -- MC Vendetta -- Verneice Turner -- Annette Daniels-Taylor -- Howard Smith -- Kevin Fehr -- Larry Beahan -- Ntare Ali Gault -- Tysheka Long -- vonetta t. rhodes -- Lauren Emmett With your help, the four champions will be sent to The National Poetry Sla= m in Austin, Texas, August 9-12, to compete against 80 other teams of poets in four day= s of verbal battles. Special Guest: three time international poetry slam champion, Buddy Wakefie= ld Host: Gabrielle Bouliane SPOKEN ARTS RADIO, with host Sarah Campbell A joint production of Just Buffalo Literary Center and WBFO 88.7 FM Airs Sundays during Weekend Edition at 8:35 a.m. and Mondays during Morning Edition at 6:35 A.M. & 8:35 a.m. Upcoming Features: July 9 & 10, Olga Karman All shows are now available for download on our website, including features= on John Ashbery, Paul Auster, Lyn Hejinian, Ray Bradbury and more... http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/sar.shtml JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. Call fo= r details. Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in Augu= st if you'd like to join up in the fall. UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:52:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hope that means I'm invited. 7/9, give time, I'd love to come..=20 =20 Larissa Shmailo 253 West 72nd Street #715 New York, NY 10023 212/712-9865 slidingsca@aol.com http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo larissashmailo.blogspot.com =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: susan maurer To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:37:35 -0400 Subject: (no subject) after seeing gabbeh i was struck with the easy integration of poetry into ev= eryday life , the laundress singing some as she washed in a stream..i learne= d that in some countries it would not be at all unusual for people to share=20= poetry at a dinner party and poems set to music were on the country's top te= n list. i thought of all that poetry zipping aroung genji and decided to try= to do my little bit to make poetry less ghettoized in bookshelves as it oft= en seems to me to be in america. i began stalking my buildings coop presiden= t, grilling total strangers in the elevator and this resulted in what is now= the 4th annual poety reading in the lobby of 210 east 15th st. in nyc.i was= surprised at the talent that turned up and at least 5 books of poetry or mo= re among the crew as well as a clio winning librettist, and a nine year old=20= writing a novel.ron barenberg produced a wonderful record of the poets on ma= nhattanpoets.com .the next reading is 7/9 at 5pm and we expect to have as mu= ch fun..susan maurer=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________=20 Don=E2=80=99t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search= .msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/=20 ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM= . All on demand. Always Free. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:09:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Corey Frost Subject: Re: Chinese is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alexander, I think, may be conflating ideographic (written languages like Chinese and Japanese that use characters based on ideas) and idiomatic, which Chinese writing is, but so is every natural language, no? He also seems to be confusing an honest request to clarify a very elliptical and not at all self-evident claim with "disingenuous crap." But most interesting to me, Alex, and anyone who is interested in a slight change of subject, is that you are confusing experience and authority. Being a foreigner in China, even living there for some time, while it must be a rich experience, certainly is not enough on its own to make someone an authority in comparative linguistics, and conversely not having lived there is not enough to disqualify someone from understanding comparative linguistics. The part of what you said that irks me, though, is this: "traveling, in Bowles' sense, which is very different from, say, being a tourist or going somewhere and supposing one is experiencing what is 'down home' (while being locked into the caste of an entitled visa)?" This is an old argument, but one that I'm sort of wrapped up in right now because I'm working on some stories about travel experiences. The distinction between "traveller" and "tourist" seems to me just as self-important and deluded as the old-fashioned tourist persona that it was meant to critique. Does the authenticity of one's experience in another country depend on what kind of visa you have? If you visit China for a month instead of a year, does that mean you were not really in China, that your experiences there were somehow fake? And if you stay there for four years does that mean you know what it's like to be Chinese? At best, this idea is "disingenuous crap." Corey Frost ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:13:31 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Gil Scott-Heron - B Movie MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want to go back as far as they can – even if it's only as far as last week. Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was the day of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible moment. The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white horse - or the man who always came to save America at the last moment – someone always came to save America at the last moment – especially in “B” movies. -- gill scott heron <> http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/632 Well, the first thing I want to say is…”Mandate my ass!” Because it seems as though we've been convinced that 26% of the registered voters, not even 26% of the American people, but 26% of the registered voters form a mandate – or a landslide. 21% voted for Skippy and 3, 4% voted for somebody else who might have been running. But, oh yeah, I remember. In this year that we have now declared the year from Shogun to Reagan, I remember what I said about Reagan…meant it. Acted like an actor…Hollyweird. Acted like a liberal. Acted like General Franco when he acted like governor of California, then he acted like a republican. Then he acted like somebody was going to vote for him for president. And now we act like 26% of the registered voters is actually a mandate. We're all actors in this I suppose. What has happened is that in the last 20 years, America has changed from a producer to a consumer. And all consumers know that when the producer names the tune…the consumer has got to dance. That's the way it is. We used to be a producer – very inflexible at that, and now we are consumers and, finding it difficult to understand. Natural resources and minerals will change your world. The Arabs used to be in the 3rd World. They have bought the 2nd World and put a firm down payment on the 1st one. Controlling your resources we'll control your world. This country has been surprised by the way the world looks now. They don't know if they want to be Matt Dillon or Bob Dylan. They don't know if they want to be diplomats or continue the same policy - of nuclear nightmare diplomacy. John Foster Dulles ain't nothing but the name of an airport now. The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want to go back as far as they can – even if it's only as far as last week. Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was the day of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible moment. The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white horse - or the man who always came to save America at the last moment – someone always came to save America at the last moment – especially in “B” movies. And when America found itself having a hard time facing the future, they looked for people like John Wayne. But since John Wayne was no longer available, they settled for Ronald Reagan – and it has placed us in a situation that we can only look at – like a “B” movie. Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren't zeros. Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous “B” movie. The producer underwritten by all the millionaires necessary will be Casper “The Defensive” Weinberger – no more animated choice is available. The director will be Attila the Haig, running around frantically declaring himself in control and in charge. The ultimate realization of the inmates taking over at the asylum. The screenplay will be adapted from the book called “Voodoo Economics” by George “Papa Doc” Bush. Music by the “Village People” the very military "Macho Man." “Company!!!” “Macho, macho man!” “ Two-three-four.” “ He likes to be – well, you get the point.” “Huuut! Your left! Your left! Your left…right, left, right, left, right…!” A theme song for saber-rallying and selling wars door-to-door. Remember, we're looking for the closest thing we can find to John Wayne. Clichés abound like kangaroos – courtesy of some spaced out Marlin Perkins, a Reagan contemporary. Clichés like, “itchy trigger finger” and “tall in the saddle” and “riding off or on into the sunset.” Clichés like, “Get off of my planet by sundown!” More so than clichés like, “he died with his boots on.” Marine tough the man is. Bogart tough the man is. Cagney tough the man is. Hollywood tough the man is. Cheap stick tough. And Bonzo's substantial. The ultimate in synthetic selling: A Madison Avenue masterpiece – a miracle – a cotton-candy politician…Presto! Macho! “Macho, macho man!” Put your orders in America. And quick as Kodak your leaders duplicate with the accent being on the nukes - cause all of a sudden we have fallen prey to selective amnesia - remembering what we want to remember and forgetting what we choose to forget. All of a sudden, the man who called for a blood bath on our college campuses is supposed to be Dudley “God-damn” Do-Right? “You go give them liberals hell Ronnie.” That was the mandate. To the new “Captain Bly” on the new ship of fools. It was doubtlessly based on his chameleon performance of the past - as a liberal democrat – as the head of the Studio Actor's Guild. When other celluloid saviors were cringing in terror from McCarthy – Ron stood tall. It goes all the way back from Hollywood to hillbilly. From liberal to libelous, from “Bonzo” to Birch idol…born again. Civil rights, women's rights, gay rights…it's all wrong. Call in the cavalry to disrupt this perception of freedom gone wild. God damn it…first one wants freedom, then the whole damn world wants freedom. Nostalgia, that's what we want…the good ol' days…when we gave'em hell. When the buck stopped somewhere and you could still buy something with it. To a time when movies were in black and white – and so was everything else. Even if we go back to the campaign trail, before six-gun Ron shot off his face and developed hoof-in-mouth. Before the free press went down before full-court press. And were reluctant to review the menu because they knew the only thing available was – Crow. Lon Chaney, our man of a thousand faces - no match for Ron. Doug Henning does the make-up - special effects from Grecian Formula 16 and Crazy Glue. Transportation furnished by the David Rockefeller of Remote Control Company. Their slogan is, “Why wait for 1984? You can panic now...and avoid the rush.” So much for the good news… As Wall Street goes, so goes the nation. And here's a look at the closing numbers – racism's up, human rights are down, peace is shaky, war items are hot - the House claims all ties. Jobs are down, money is scarce – and common sense is at an all-time low on heavy trading. Movies were looking better than ever and now no one is looking because, we're starring in a “B” movie. And we would rather had John Wayne…we would rather had John Wayne. "You don't need to be in no hurry. You ain't never really got to worry. And you don't need to check on how you feel. Just keep repeating that none of this is real. And if you're sensing, that something's wrong, Well just remember, that it won't be too long Before the director cuts the scene…yea." “This ain't really your life, Ain't really your life, Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie.” [Refrain repeated about 25 times or more in an apocalyptic crescendo with a military cadence.] “This ain't really your life, Ain't really your life, Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie.” "B Movie" <>lyrics: Gil Scott-Heron From the album "Reflections " -- Stay Strong \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:34:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Study Abroad on The Bowery Summer Program MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear friends, fellow writers, students: Just a note to let you know that: Study Abroad on the Bowery: A Curriculum Program in Applied Poetics at the Bowery Poetry Club is planning a fabulous Summer Session August 13 - 27 With professors Kristin Prevallet (poetics) and Lisa Jarnot (writing). With lectures and performances by: Sheri-D Wilson, Edwin Torres, Celena Glenn, Shelly Jackson, Jason Shinder, Amiri Baraka.... and more! Applied Poetics: the application of poetic thinking to the work of poetry in the world. This unique curriculum is founded on the belief that poets have a real job, a critical job, and that, together, we can create a place in the world for poetry. Our curriculum spans page and stage. A great opportunity to develop both performance and manuscript ... and study with a lineage of writers who themselves have studied with the most relevant minds of our generation. Here's where you can get the info: http://www.boweryartsandscience.org Or better yet, come to an open houses and meet the professors: Sat June 24, 2-4pm; Thurs June 29, 5-7pm; Sat July 15, 2-4pm; Thurs=A0July 20, 5-7pm; Sat, Aug 5th, 2-4pm Or contact me and we'll send you a brochure.... We look forward to your words and your actions... poetry lives! All best, Claudia Pisano --- Claudia Pisano Bowery Arts and Sciences =A0 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:50:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Query: Line by Pound MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I need some help on this line from Pound's Cantos: "(that's progress, me yr' ' ' se/call it progress/)" From the Pisan Cantos, Canto 76, page 455 in the New Diretcions = one-volume Cantos. I'm completely baffled by that "me yr' ' ' se/call" -- that's three = spaced apostrophes in a row, presumably marking an abbreviation (or two? or = three?. I suppose it could be a type, but I kinda doubt it (the forward-slash = works as an opening parenthesis). Can anyone help?=20 Thanks, PQ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:14:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Query: Line by Pound -- Oooops MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Ooops. For "type" in my last (and the following) please read "typo." = (Nice to know that among the muses irony is still around.) =20 I need some help on this line from Pound's Cantos: "(that's progress, me yr' ' ' se/call it progress/)" From the Pisan Cantos, Canto 76, page 455 in the New Diretcions = one-volume Cantos. I'm completely baffled by that "me yr' ' ' se/call" -- that's three = spaced apostrophes in a row, presumably marking an abbreviation (or two? or = three?. I suppose it could be a type, but I kinda doubt it (the forward-slash = works as an opening parenthesis).=20 Can anyone help?=20 Thanks, PQ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:47:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Johnson Canada Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/19/2006 2:50:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, quarterm@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA writes: I need some help on this line from Pound's Cantos: "(that's progress, me yr' ' ' se/call it progress/)" From the Pisan Cantos, Canto 76, page 455 in the New Diretcions one-volume Cantos. I'm completely baffled by that "me yr' ' ' se/call" -- that's three spaced apostrophes in a row, presumably marking an abbreviation (or two? or three?. I suppose it could be a type, but I kinda doubt it (the forward-slash works as an opening parenthesis). Can anyone help? Thanks, PQ Another koan-ish line from EzP. I've yet to spot an insightful glossing from Poundians on this enigma, so we're deliriously on our own. Carroll Terrell's massive _A Companion to the Cantos_ only glosses this bit as "progress": "Note repetition of this line." (?) Do the three spaced apostrophes indicate the line "that's progress, me yr" should be repeated twice more, sorta like how a repetitive musical phrase is sometimes indicated by the phrase itself, then repeated three more times thus / / / ? William Cookson offers nada in his Guide re me yr/se call it progress. But look at the context: That section appears to be Ez in his Pisan cage, overhearing his fellow American POWs, their idiolect and repartee. Pound seems to be commenting on "criminals and their intellectual interests." And two African Americans are overheard (at least one of them suspected of murder), and one apparently (suddenly?) and ironically drops a line of Latin, "ante mortem no scortum" ("before death no prostitute"). Or is it mad Ez saying before death no prostitute? If so, it seems to harmonize with EP's sarcastic tones; they don't let you have a hooker before they hang you anymore. That's some sorta "moral progress"? "Me" in italian: me, myself. BUT: "yr"??? That's got me. As of today, I gloss this bit as "That's progress from me to you. That's progress. That's progress. Yea, call it progress." Your working gloss PQ? -michael Berkeley, CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:21:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Dada Reading at MoMA Comments: cc: Lucifer Poetics Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those in New York City this week: Thought is Made in the Mouth: Dada Sound Poetry and Manifestos Wednesday, June 21, 6:00 p.m. The Museum of Modern Art 11 West 53 Street, between Fifth and Sixth avenues New York, NY 10019-5497 The Roy and Niuta Titus Theater 2 In conjunction with the first major museum exhibition in the United States to focus exclusively on Dada, one of the most significant movements of the historical avant-garde, LaTasha N. Nevada Diggs, Pierre Joris, and Bob Holman perform original poetry and manifestos created by Dada artists, such as Hugo Ball, Kurt Schwitters, Tristan Tzara & many other Dadaists. Tickets ($10, members $8, students and seniors $5) can be purchased at the Museum lobby information desk and at the Film and Media Desk. Tickets are also available online at www.moma.org/thinkmodern. apologies for crossposting ============================================== "Blasphemy is a victimless crime." -- a t-shirt sent to Salman Rushdie in the days of the Satanic Verses fatwa. ============================================== Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 Euro cell: 011 33 6 79 368 446 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ========================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:26:19 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Lower & Upper Limits tomorrow In-Reply-To: <000001c693ed$adccf320$345e17cf@Diogenes> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are invited to an evening of poetry & music happening tomorrow -- Al DeGenova will perform his poetry with The Ways & Means Trio at Muse Cafe - 8-10 p.m. tomorrow (Tuesday, June 20) as part of the Lower & Upper Limits series Al DeGenova, co-editor and publisher of After Hours magazine, is a poet and blues saxophonist. His work has appeared in numerous magazines and anthologies. His new CD with Charlie Rossiter, entitled AvantRetro, has just been released and a second edition of their co-authored book Back Beat is being published by Fractal Edge Press. He received his MFA in Poetry from Spalding University. Lower & Upper Limits is a series at Muse Cafe that explores collaborations between poets and musicians and relationships between language and music. The Ways & Means Trio is Jayve Montgomery (reeds, percussion, electronics), Joel Wanek (upright bass, cello), and Daniel Godston (trumpet, percussion). The title of this series is taken from Louis Zukofsky's "A-12": "I'll tell you. / About my poetics -- music / speech / An integral / Lower limit speech / Upper limit music." Lower & Upper Limits happens at Muse Cafe on the third Tuesday of the month. Muse Cafe is at 817 N. Milwaukee Ave. in Chicago, and the phone number is 312.850.2233. The Chicago station on the CTA blue line is a half a block away. This event is free and open to the public, donations appreciated. For more information please visit these websites: www.musecafechicago.com & http://jayvejohnmontgomery.com/. Ways & Means will be collaborating with these poets & groups in the upcoming months -- July 18: Neighborhood Writing Alliance August 15: Toni Asante Lightfoot * * * Coming up on Wednesday, October 25: "Chicago Calling: A 24 Hour Arts Festival," as part of Chicago Artists Month. * * * "Scribbles-lines adding up-being something at the same time as being nothing at all. Clarity formed by perception. Plasticity of the gesture-air coalescing content fused with the mark, the experience of the mark making-experiential rather than symbolic. Not what you say but how you say it-language, confrontation-face to face." -- Louisa Chase ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:37:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: What Is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My new book is out from Factory School. It's a beauty - 6 years in the making and a cast of thousands. Cover photograph by Tim Davis. http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/index.html What is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers Brian Kim Stefans Poetry Factory School. 2006. 148 pages, perfect bound, 6.5x9. ISBN: 1-60001-048-2 $14 / $12 direct order Description: Collecting poems from the past six years, What Is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers is Stefans' most ambitious book to date. Includes the successful chapbooks "The Window Ordered to be Made," "Jai lai For Autocrats" and "Cull." "What Does It Matter?," a chapbook published in England in 2005, is a long sequence that updates Ezra Pound's Hugh Selwyn Mauberley by 100 years, several wars and with a change of neighborhood (London for Williamsburg, Brooklyn). The full cover: http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/vol2/stefans/04stefansCOV.jpg You also order at: www.spdbooks.org There are no blurbs but, uh, John Crowe Ransom says it's good, and good for you. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:56 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Re: Gil Scott-Heron - B Movie Comments: To: ALDON L NIELSEN In-Reply-To: <200606192253.SAA15981@webmail11.cac.psu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT why are you always hatin heron and burying the man while he's still alive. he still has his game if you knew anything about what he does with the hip hop scene you might starting doing something twice that you haven't begun to to = think. he has been through the ringer for his peoples and art without selling out and one gives that sort of bruh respect and not the samo break a man's legs and laugh at the way he walks bangarang like amerikkkka likes to do nations under the gun laterz ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >You can see Gil perform this piece in the 1982 movie BLACK WAX, currently >available on DVD -- This movie is classic Gil, when he was still at the top of >his game -- which makes it sad to watch now, but worth watching anyway -- > >Also worth it for the views of DC and the old WAX MUSEUM -- the original wax >museum had been in downtown NorthWest -- then it moved to newer quarters not >far from the marina -- but it didn't last long there -- an enterprising soul go >the idea to turn it into a music club, and for a few years it was one of the >top places to go -- I saw Buddy Guy, Ornette Colemean, Stevie Ray Vaughan, King >Sunny Ade and a host of others there -- Some of the old statues were still >scattered around the premises, and Gil has fun with them at the beginning of >the film -- You also see Gil walking around the streets of DC, where he lived >in those years, and near the tidal basin -- reciting his poems accompanied by >his boom box -- > >check it out -- > >On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:13:31 +0000, Ishaq wrote: > > > >>The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want >>to go back as far as they can - even if it's only as far as last week. >>Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was >>the day of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible >>moment. The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white >>horse - or the man who always came to save America at the last moment - >>someone always came to save America at the last moment - especially in >>"B" movies. -- gill scott heron >><> >>http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/632 >> >> >>Well, the first thing I want to say is..."Mandate my ass!" >> >>Because it seems as though we've been convinced that 26% of the >>registered voters, not even 26% of the American people, but 26% of the >>registered voters form a mandate - or a landslide. 21% voted for Skippy >>and 3, 4% voted for somebody else who might have been running. >> >>But, oh yeah, I remember. In this year that we have now declared the >>year from Shogun to Reagan, I remember what I said about Reagan...meant >>it. Acted like an actor...Hollyweird. Acted like a liberal. Acted like >>General Franco when he acted like governor of California, then he acted >>like a republican. Then he acted like somebody was going to vote for him >>for president. And now we act like 26% of the registered voters is >>actually a mandate. We're all actors in this I suppose. >> >>What has happened is that in the last 20 years, America has changed from >>a producer to a consumer. And all consumers know that when the producer >>names the tune...the consumer has got to dance. That's the way it is. We >>used to be a producer - very inflexible at that, and now we are >>consumers and, finding it difficult to understand. Natural resources and >>minerals will change your world. The Arabs used to be in the 3rd World. >>They have bought the 2nd World and put a firm down payment on the 1st >>one. Controlling your resources we'll control your world. This country >>has been surprised by the way the world looks now. They don't know if >>they want to be Matt Dillon or Bob Dylan. They don't know if they want >>to be diplomats or continue the same policy - of nuclear nightmare >>diplomacy. John Foster Dulles ain't nothing but the name of an airport now. >> >>The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want >>to go back as far as they can - even if it's only as far as last week. >>Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was >>the day of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible >>moment. The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white >>horse - or the man who always came to save America at the last moment - >>someone always came to save America at the last moment - especially in >>"B" movies. And when America found itself having a hard time facing the >>future, they looked for people like John Wayne. But since John Wayne was >>no longer available, they settled for Ronald Reagan - and it has placed >>us in a situation that we can only look at - like a "B" movie. >> >>Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren't zeros. >>Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and >>all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous "B" >>movie. The producer underwritten by all the millionaires necessary will >>be Casper "The Defensive" Weinberger - no more animated choice is >>available. The director will be Attila the Haig, running around >>frantically declaring himself in control and in charge. The ultimate >>realization of the inmates taking over at the asylum. The screenplay >>will be adapted from the book called "Voodoo Economics" by George "Papa >>Doc" Bush. Music by the "Village People" the very military "Macho Man." >> >>"Company!!!" >>"Macho, macho man!" >>" Two-three-four." >>" He likes to be - well, you get the point." >>"Huuut! Your left! Your left! Your left...right, left, right, left, right...!" >> >>A theme song for saber-rallying and selling wars door-to-door. Remember, >>we're looking for the closest thing we can find to John Wayne. Clichés >>abound like kangaroos - courtesy of some spaced out Marlin Perkins, a >>Reagan contemporary. Clichés like, "itchy trigger finger" and "tall in >>the saddle" and "riding off or on into the sunset." Clichés like, "Get >>off of my planet by sundown!" More so than clichés like, "he died with >>his boots on." Marine tough the man is. Bogart tough the man is. Cagney >>tough the man is. Hollywood tough the man is. Cheap stick tough. And >>Bonzo's substantial. The ultimate in synthetic selling: A Madison Avenue >>masterpiece - a miracle - a cotton-candy politician...Presto! Macho! >> >>"Macho, macho man!" >> >>Put your orders in America. And quick as Kodak your leaders duplicate >>with the accent being on the nukes - cause all of a sudden we have >>fallen prey to selective amnesia - remembering what we want to remember >>and forgetting what we choose to forget. All of a sudden, the man who >>called for a blood bath on our college campuses is supposed to be Dudley >>"God-damn" Do-Right? >> >>"You go give them liberals hell Ronnie." That was the mandate. To the >>new "Captain Bly" on the new ship of fools. It was doubtlessly based on >>his chameleon performance of the past - as a liberal democrat - as the >>head of the Studio Actor's Guild. When other celluloid saviors were >>cringing in terror from McCarthy - Ron stood tall. It goes all the way >>back from Hollywood to hillbilly. From liberal to libelous, from "Bonzo" >>to Birch idol...born again. Civil rights, women's rights, gay rights...it's >>all wrong. Call in the cavalry to disrupt this perception of freedom >>gone wild. God damn it...first one wants freedom, then the whole damn >>world wants freedom. >> >>Nostalgia, that's what we want...the good ol' days...when we gave'em hell. >>When the buck stopped somewhere and you could still buy something with >>it. To a time when movies were in black and white - and so was >>everything else. Even if we go back to the campaign trail, before >>six-gun Ron shot off his face and developed hoof-in-mouth. Before the >>free press went down before full-court press. And were reluctant to >>review the menu because they knew the only thing available was - Crow. >> >>Lon Chaney, our man of a thousand faces - no match for Ron. Doug Henning >>does the make-up - special effects from Grecian Formula 16 and Crazy >>Glue. Transportation furnished by the David Rockefeller of Remote >>Control Company. Their slogan is, "Why wait for 1984? You can panic >>now...and avoid the rush." >> >>So much for the good news... >> >>As Wall Street goes, so goes the nation. And here's a look at the >>closing numbers - racism's up, human rights are down, peace is shaky, >>war items are hot - the House claims all ties. Jobs are down, money is >>scarce - and common sense is at an all-time low on heavy trading. Movies >>were looking better than ever and now no one is looking because, we're >>starring in a "B" movie. And we would rather had John Wayne...we would >>rather had John Wayne. >> >>"You don't need to be in no hurry. >>You ain't never really got to worry. >>And you don't need to check on how you feel. >>Just keep repeating that none of this is real. >>And if you're sensing, that something's wrong, >>Well just remember, that it won't be too long >>Before the director cuts the scene...yea." >> >>"This ain't really your life, >>Ain't really your life, >>Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie." >> >>[Refrain repeated about 25 times or more in an apocalyptic crescendo >>with a military cadence.] >> >>"This ain't really your life, >>Ain't really your life, >>Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie." >> >> >> >>"B Movie" >><>lyrics: Gil Scott-Heron >> >> From the album "Reflections >> >> >> >" > > >> >> >> >>-- >>Stay Strong >>\ >> "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" >>--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) >>\ >> "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a >> >> >process of humiliation." > > >>--patrick o'neil >>\ >>"...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" >>--harry belafonte >>\ >>"...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and >>amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of >>our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" >> >>"...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, >> >> >in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, >they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we >will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud >ahmadinejad > > >>\ >>http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php >>\ >>http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php >>\ >>http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date >>\ >> >> >> >http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 > > >>\ >>http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ >>\ >>} >> >> >> >> > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:25:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Gil Scott-Heron - B Movie Comments: To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca In-Reply-To: <44974814.1000500@shaw.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ishaq--- thanks for posting B-Movie; that was my first experience w/ G S-H. I've heard most of the old albums, and saw him live alot in the 80s (once, in Philly, he was with Linton Kwesi, and said "people are wondering when I'm gonna put a new album out; well, i say, when you buy the old ones"----I love that) Anyway, I've definitely heard some hatin on heron in recent years, and when I saw your post, I feared that he wasn't still alive, so it's good to hear he's still doing stuff with the hip-hop scene... but even if he wasn't still active, he's certainly done enough already-- one of the greats C On Jun 19, 2006, at 5:57 PM, Ishaq wrote: > why are you always hatin heron and burying the man while he's still =20= > alive. he still has his game if you knew anything about what he =20 > does with the hip hop scene you might starting doing something =20 > twice that you haven't begun to to =3D think. > > he has been through the ringer for his peoples and art without =20 > selling out and one gives that sort of bruh respect and not the =20 > samo break a man's legs and laugh at the way he walks bangarang =20 > like amerikkkka likes to do nations under the gun > > > laterz > > ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > >> You can see Gil perform this piece in the 1982 movie BLACK WAX, =20 >> currently >> available on DVD -- This movie is classic Gil, when he was still =20 >> at the top of >> his game -- which makes it sad to watch now, but worth watching =20 >> anyway -- >> Also worth it for the views of DC and the old WAX MUSEUM -- the =20 >> original wax >> museum had been in downtown NorthWest -- then it moved to newer =20 >> quarters not >> far from the marina -- but it didn't last long there -- an =20 >> enterprising soul go >> the idea to turn it into a music club, and for a few years it was =20 >> one of the >> top places to go -- I saw Buddy Guy, Ornette Colemean, Stevie Ray =20 >> Vaughan, King >> Sunny Ade and a host of others there -- Some of the old statues =20 >> were still >> scattered around the premises, and Gil has fun with them at the =20 >> beginning of >> the film -- You also see Gil walking around the streets of DC, =20 >> where he lived >> in those years, and near the tidal basin -- reciting his poems =20 >> accompanied by >> his boom box -- >> check it out -- >> On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:13:31 +0000, Ishaq wrote: >> >> >>> The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. =20 >>> They want to go back as far as they can - even if it's only as =20 >>> far as last week. Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face =20 >>> backwards. And yesterday was the day of our cinema heroes riding =20 >>> to the rescue at the last possible moment. The day of the man in =20 >>> the white hat or the man on the white horse - or the man who =20 >>> always came to save America at the last moment - someone always =20 >>> came to save America at the last moment - especially in "B" =20 >>> movies. -- gill scott heron >>> <> >>> http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=3Dnode/632 >>> >>> >>> Well, the first thing I want to say is..."Mandate my ass!" >>> >>> Because it seems as though we've been convinced that 26% of the =20 >>> registered voters, not even 26% of the American people, but 26% =20 >>> of the registered voters form a mandate - or a landslide. 21% =20 >>> voted for Skippy and 3, 4% voted for somebody else who might have =20= >>> been running. >>> >>> But, oh yeah, I remember. In this year that we have now declared =20 >>> the year from Shogun to Reagan, I remember what I said about =20 >>> Reagan...meant it. Acted like an actor...Hollyweird. Acted like a =20= >>> liberal. Acted like General Franco when he acted like governor of =20= >>> California, then he acted like a republican. Then he acted like =20 >>> somebody was going to vote for him for president. And now we act =20 >>> like 26% of the registered voters is actually a mandate. We're =20 >>> all actors in this I suppose. >>> >>> What has happened is that in the last 20 years, America has =20 >>> changed from a producer to a consumer. And all consumers know =20 >>> that when the producer names the tune...the consumer has got to =20 >>> dance. That's the way it is. We used to be a producer - very =20 >>> inflexible at that, and now we are consumers and, finding it =20 >>> difficult to understand. Natural resources and minerals will =20 >>> change your world. The Arabs used to be in the 3rd World. They =20 >>> have bought the 2nd World and put a firm down payment on the 1st =20 >>> one. Controlling your resources we'll control your world. This =20 >>> country has been surprised by the way the world looks now. They =20 >>> don't know if they want to be Matt Dillon or Bob Dylan. They =20 >>> don't know if they want to be diplomats or continue the same =20 >>> policy - of nuclear nightmare diplomacy. John Foster Dulles ain't =20= >>> nothing but the name of an airport now. >>> >>> The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. =20 >>> They want to go back as far as they can - even if it's only as =20 >>> far as last week. Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face =20 >>> backwards. And yesterday was the day of our cinema heroes riding =20 >>> to the rescue at the last possible moment. The day of the man in =20 >>> the white hat or the man on the white horse - or the man who =20 >>> always came to save America at the last moment - someone always =20 >>> came to save America at the last moment - especially in "B" =20 >>> movies. And when America found itself having a hard time facing =20 >>> the future, they looked for people like John Wayne. But since =20 >>> John Wayne was no longer available, they settled for Ronald =20 >>> Reagan - and it has placed us in a situation that we can only =20 >>> look at - like a "B" movie. >>> >>> Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren't =20 >>> zeros. Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight =20 >>> away and all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the =20 >>> wondrous "B" movie. The producer underwritten by all the =20 >>> millionaires necessary will be Casper "The Defensive" Weinberger =20 >>> - no more animated choice is available. The director will be =20 >>> Attila the Haig, running around frantically declaring himself in =20 >>> control and in charge. The ultimate realization of the inmates =20 >>> taking over at the asylum. The screenplay will be adapted from =20 >>> the book called "Voodoo Economics" by George "Papa Doc" Bush. =20 >>> Music by the "Village People" the very military "Macho Man." >>> >>> "Company!!!" >>> "Macho, macho man!" >>> " Two-three-four." >>> " He likes to be - well, you get the point." >>> "Huuut! Your left! Your left! Your left...right, left, right, =20 >>> left, right...!" >>> >>> A theme song for saber-rallying and selling wars door-to-door. =20 >>> Remember, we're looking for the closest thing we can find to John =20= >>> Wayne. Clich=E9s abound like kangaroos - courtesy of some spaced =20 >>> out Marlin Perkins, a Reagan contemporary. Clich=E9s like, "itchy =20= >>> trigger finger" and "tall in the saddle" and "riding off or on =20 >>> into the sunset." Clich=E9s like, "Get off of my planet by =20 >>> sundown!" More so than clich=E9s like, "he died with his boots on." =20= >>> Marine tough the man is. Bogart tough the man is. Cagney tough =20 >>> the man is. Hollywood tough the man is. Cheap stick tough. And =20 >>> Bonzo's substantial. The ultimate in synthetic selling: A Madison =20= >>> Avenue masterpiece - a miracle - a cotton-candy =20 >>> politician...Presto! Macho! >>> >>> "Macho, macho man!" >>> >>> Put your orders in America. And quick as Kodak your leaders =20 >>> duplicate with the accent being on the nukes - cause all of a =20 >>> sudden we have fallen prey to selective amnesia - remembering =20 >>> what we want to remember and forgetting what we choose to forget. =20= >>> All of a sudden, the man who called for a blood bath on our =20 >>> college campuses is supposed to be Dudley "God-damn" Do-Right? >>> >>> "You go give them liberals hell Ronnie." That was the mandate. To =20= >>> the new "Captain Bly" on the new ship of fools. It was =20 >>> doubtlessly based on his chameleon performance of the past - as a =20= >>> liberal democrat - as the head of the Studio Actor's Guild. When =20 >>> other celluloid saviors were cringing in terror from McCarthy - =20 >>> Ron stood tall. It goes all the way back from Hollywood to =20 >>> hillbilly. =46rom liberal to libelous, from "Bonzo" to Birch =20 >>> idol...born again. Civil rights, women's rights, gay =20 >>> rights...it's all wrong. Call in the cavalry to disrupt this =20 >>> perception of freedom gone wild. God damn it...first one wants =20 >>> freedom, then the whole damn world wants freedom. >>> >>> Nostalgia, that's what we want...the good ol' days...when we =20 >>> gave'em hell. When the buck stopped somewhere and you could still =20= >>> buy something with it. To a time when movies were in black and =20 >>> white - and so was everything else. Even if we go back to the =20 >>> campaign trail, before six-gun Ron shot off his face and =20 >>> developed hoof-in-mouth. Before the free press went down before =20 >>> full-court press. And were reluctant to review the menu because =20 >>> they knew the only thing available was - Crow. >>> >>> Lon Chaney, our man of a thousand faces - no match for Ron. Doug =20 >>> Henning does the make-up - special effects from Grecian Formula =20 >>> 16 and Crazy Glue. Transportation furnished by the David =20 >>> Rockefeller of Remote Control Company. Their slogan is, "Why wait =20= >>> for 1984? You can panic now...and avoid the rush." >>> >>> So much for the good news... >>> >>> As Wall Street goes, so goes the nation. And here's a look at the =20= >>> closing numbers - racism's up, human rights are down, peace is =20 >>> shaky, war items are hot - the House claims all ties. Jobs are =20 >>> down, money is scarce - and common sense is at an all-time low on =20= >>> heavy trading. Movies were looking better than ever and now no =20 >>> one is looking because, we're starring in a "B" movie. And we =20 >>> would rather had John Wayne...we would rather had John Wayne. >>> >>> "You don't need to be in no hurry. >>> You ain't never really got to worry. >>> And you don't need to check on how you feel. >>> Just keep repeating that none of this is real. >>> And if you're sensing, that something's wrong, >>> Well just remember, that it won't be too long >>> Before the director cuts the scene...yea." >>> >>> "This ain't really your life, >>> Ain't really your life, >>> Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie." >>> >>> [Refrain repeated about 25 times or more in an apocalyptic =20 >>> crescendo with a military cadence.] >>> >>> "This ain't really your life, >>> Ain't really your life, >>> Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie." >>> >>> >>> >>> "B Movie" >>> <>lyrics: Gil Scott-Heron >>> >>> =46rom the album "Reflections >>> >> > 80/;jsessionid=3DA402CEF88EA9B11714706787FFFD0241>" >> >>> =20 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Stay Strong >>> \ >>> "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --=20 >>> Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) >>> \ >>> "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not =20 >>> submit to a >>> >> process of humiliation." >> >>> --patrick o'neil >>> \ >>> "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" >>> --harry belafonte >>> \ >>> "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and >>> amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the =20 >>> *best* of >>> our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" >>> >>> "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are =20 >>> the people who, >>> >> in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world =20= >> war alone, >> they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah =20 >> willing, we >> will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- =20 >> mahmoud >> ahmadinejad >> >>> \ >>> http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php >>> \ >>> http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php >>> \ >>> http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=3Dbraithwaite&orderBy=3Ddat= e >>> \ >>> >>> >> http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-=20 >> sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 >> >>> \ >>> http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ >>> \ >>> } >>> >>> >>> >> >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20= >> >>>>>> >> >> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." >> --Emily Dickinson >> >> Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> >> Aldon L. Nielsen >> Kelly Professor of American Literature >> The Pennsylvania State University >> 116 Burrowes >> University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> >> (814) 865-0091 >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:28:16 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Review The No-Net World CD : POEMS AND (RUSSIAN) TRANSLATIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Larissa Shmailo=20 The No-Net World =20 Eggplant Press=20 0-935080-01-4=20 Produced by SongCrew Records=20 _http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo_ (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo) =20 _http://www.tower.com_ (http://www.tower.com/) =20 iTUNES: _http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=3D14= 8258 762_=20 (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=3D14= 8258762)=20 Reviewed by Eric Yost=20 While many poets want to take poetry from academia to the streets, Larissa=20 Shmailo's "=20 The No-Net World" shows what poets might do when they get there.=20 The eighteen poems on this disc are powerfully read by the author. Selected= =20 from her ten years deep in the New York poetry scene, some are accompanied= =20 by Bobby Perfect=E2=80=93whose performance here measures up to his name. Sh= mailo's=20 voice and technique are impressive, as is her ability to span worlds and re= sist=20 labels and ideologies.=20 The No-Net World, the CD's title poem, goes inside the life of someone who=20 imperceptibly, and through no fault of her own, spirals into poverty and=20 homelessness. This gut-wrenching poem works so well not only because Shmail= o knows=20 our flawed local and national social support systems, but also because her=20 innate compassion allows her writing to get inside other voices and other=20 lives. At a time when poets are more concerned with polishing the hipness o= f=20 their self-image or marketing their signature voices, Shmailo has the coura= ge and=20 heart to put aside self and show us Other. In her handling of other voices,= =20 demonstrated in poems like "Williamsburg Poem, " "Madwoman," and "Johnny I=20 Love You Don't Die," Shmailo ranks among our very finest poets.=20 It is perhaps because of this intense consciousness of the other that the=20 poem The No-Net World has become an anthem for help for the homeless, trave= ling=20 from poets to political groups, from Loisaida to the pamphlets of the=20 Australian Worker=E2=80=99s Party, published by Street News, performed and=20= recorded by=20 other poets.=20 The collection balances insights forged by regret, such as =E2=80=9CDeath a= t Sea"=20 and "California," with pure vital force, such as "In Paran" and "Shore." W= ith=20 rhythmic insistence and intelligent energy, Shmailo diagnoses the lemming's= =20 rush of culture in "Lager NYC."=20 Then there are her translations of Pushkin and Mayakovsky. Shmailo avoids=20 the traps of a purely functional equivalent reading. Instead, she gives us=20 Pushkin's semantic load complete, without sacrificing the meter or tonality= of=20 the original. In this she recalls Nabokov's translation of "Eugene Onegin,"= but=20 without the pedantry that sometimes mars that great writer's efforts.=20 Shmailo, who has worked as a scientific Russian translator for NASA, brings= the=20 poems to us whole and literally doesn't miss a beat.=20 Finally, there is "How My Family Survived the Camps," a gripping account of= =20 life as a slave worker for the Nazis, where the only way out is through a=20 smokestack in Dora Camp. Here guilt and necessity merge into a stoic hymn t= o=20 pure survival, a testament of courage and resourcefulness that we should ne= ver=20 be without. If, as Ahkmatova said, "in this most Christian of worlds, all=20 poets are Jews," Shmailo shows us the transcendent destiny of insisting on=20 ourselves. Every serious poet should have this CD available as a reminder o= f the=20 standards to which we aspire.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:37:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicholas Ruiz Subject: Kritikos V.3 June 2006 In-Reply-To: <221.d2684c8.31c8a930@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kritikos V.3 June 2006 When the Other Comes Too Close: Derrida and the Threat of Affinity...(s.weller) http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/%7Enr03/weller.htm Nicholas Ruiz III ABD/GTA Interdisciplinary Program in the Humanities --Florida State University-- Editor, Kritikos http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~nr03/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:21:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Fwd: Re: Gil Scott-Heron - B Movie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-5ejD3GBhy/7I//davG02" --=-5ejD3GBhy/7I//davG02 Content-Type: text/plain OK Ishaq -- If you want to interpret my attempt to get people to pay more attention to Gil as hatin and buryin, that's your business -- Have you spoken with him lately? My comment about the pain of looking back to his brighter moments was an expression of just that, pain -- I wish that he was in better shape today than he is -- I wish that I was in better shape than I am -- I wish Gil and I were still walking down P St. -- I wish you had some freakin' idea of what you were talking about -- and for people who might have missed it in the 90s, give a listen to Gil's SPIRITS CD, which includes his heartfelt message to the below referenced hip hop commuity -- a well as his great lyrics to a Coltrane melody -- He's been on LIVE AT THE KNITTING FACTORY in recent times, but there've been no more official CDs since then -- At the time of his arrest a couple years back, he told reporters that he had hundreds of pages of an autobiography done -- I really hope he'll get that finished and published one of these days -- Also in BLACK WAX you'll see Gil walking with his then quite young daughter -- A lovely child -- don't know what's become of her or her mother in the years since -- On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:56 +0000, Ishaq wrote: > why are you always hatin heron and burying the man while he's still > alive. he still has his game if you knew anything about what he does > with the hip hop scene you might starting doing something twice that you > haven't begun to to = think. > > he has been through the ringer for his peoples and art without selling > out and one gives that sort of bruh respect and not the samo break a > man's legs and laugh at the way he walks bangarang like amerikkkka likes > to do nations under the gun > > > laterz > --=-5ejD3GBhy/7I//davG02-- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:11:21 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Re: Gil Scott-Heron - B Movie In-Reply-To: <200606200307.XAA28656@webmail7.cac.psu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT "Well, the first thing I want to say is..." let's make it ruff "Nostalgia, that's what we want...the good ol' days...when we gave'em hell." there's a good reason why you're not walking down the street along side a great bruh like bruh heron -- you disrespectful, shit talkin, sellout ivory tower frontin mofo who'd roll with you? you ain't heron and i sure ain't cube and muggs so who calls you out let's get the big'un schools out peace to bruh heron and still more the nations his sonics fuels many EOns for the final days of our attack And as "quick as kodak" we now learning what is real the negative is not black from the ashes comes boom boxes jammin out his tracks it's the kids kickin it analogue to digital from crimmals turn to rebels hearts strong "come with us..." the meaning in the decibels what got our brutha's back. laterz, juto "get off the internet;see you on the streets" "...but even if he wasn't still active, he's certainly done enough already-- one of the greats" -- chris stroffolino ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >OK Ishaq -- If you want to interpret my attempt to get people to pay more >attention to Gil as hatin and buryin, that's your business -- Have you spoken >with him lately? My comment about the pain of looking back to his brighter >moments was an expression of just that, pain -- I wish that he was in better >shape today than he is -- I wish that I was in better shape than I am -- I wish >Gil and I were still walking down P St. -- I wish you had some freakin' idea of >what you were taling about -- > >On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:57:56 +0000, Ishaq wrote: > > > >>why are you always hatin heron and burying the man while he's still >>alive. he still has his game if you knew anything about what he does >>with the hip hop scene you might starting doing something twice that you >>haven't begun to to = think. >> >>he has been through the ringer for his peoples and art without selling >>out and one gives that sort of bruh respect and not the samo break a >>man's legs and laugh at the way he walks bangarang like amerikkkka likes >>to do nations under the gun >> >> >>laterz >> >>ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> >> >> >>>You can see Gil perform this piece in the 1982 movie BLACK WAX, currently >>>available on DVD -- This movie is classic Gil, when he was still at the top >>> >>> >of > > >>>his game -- which makes it sad to watch now, but worth watching anyway -- >>> >>>Also worth it for the views of DC and the old WAX MUSEUM -- the original wax >>>museum had been in downtown NorthWest -- then it moved to newer quarters not >>>far from the marina -- but it didn't last long there -- an enterprising soul >>> >>> >go > > >>>the idea to turn it into a music club, and for a few years it was one of the >>>top places to go -- I saw Buddy Guy, Ornette Colemean, Stevie Ray Vaughan, >>> >>> >King > > >>>Sunny Ade and a host of others there -- Some of the old statues were still >>>scattered around the premises, and Gil has fun with them at the beginning of >>>the film -- You also see Gil walking around the streets of DC, where he lived >>>in those years, and near the tidal basin -- reciting his poems accompanied by >>>his boom box -- >>> >>>check it out -- >>> >>>On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:13:31 +0000, Ishaq wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want >>>>to go back as far as they can - even if it's only as far as last week. >>>>Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was >>>>the day of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible >>>>moment. The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white >>>>horse - or the man who always came to save America at the last moment - >>>>someone always came to save America at the last moment - especially in >>>>"B" movies. -- gill scott heron >>>><> >>>>http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/632 >>>> >>>> >>>>Well, the first thing I want to say is..."Mandate my ass!" >>>> >>>>Because it seems as though we've been convinced that 26% of the >>>>registered voters, not even 26% of the American people, but 26% of the >>>>registered voters form a mandate - or a landslide. 21% voted for Skippy >>>>and 3, 4% voted for somebody else who might have been running. >>>> >>>>But, oh yeah, I remember. In this year that we have now declared the >>>>year from Shogun to Reagan, I remember what I said about Reagan...meant >>>>it. Acted like an actor...Hollyweird. Acted like a liberal. Acted like >>>>General Franco when he acted like governor of California, then he acted >>>>like a republican. Then he acted like somebody was going to vote for him >>>>for president. And now we act like 26% of the registered voters is >>>>actually a mandate. We're all actors in this I suppose. >>>> >>>>What has happened is that in the last 20 years, America has changed from >>>>a producer to a consumer. And all consumers know that when the producer >>>>names the tune...the consumer has got to dance. That's the way it is. We >>>>used to be a producer - very inflexible at that, and now we are >>>>consumers and, finding it difficult to understand. Natural resources and >>>>minerals will change your world. The Arabs used to be in the 3rd World. >>>>They have bought the 2nd World and put a firm down payment on the 1st >>>>one. Controlling your resources we'll control your world. This country >>>>has been surprised by the way the world looks now. They don't know if >>>>they want to be Matt Dillon or Bob Dylan. They don't know if they want >>>>to be diplomats or continue the same policy - of nuclear nightmare >>>>diplomacy. John Foster Dulles ain't nothing but the name of an airport now. >>>> >>>>The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want >>>>to go back as far as they can - even if it's only as far as last week. >>>>Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was >>>>the day of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible >>>>moment. The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white >>>>horse - or the man who always came to save America at the last moment - >>>>someone always came to save America at the last moment - especially in >>>>"B" movies. And when America found itself having a hard time facing the >>>>future, they looked for people like John Wayne. But since John Wayne was >>>>no longer available, they settled for Ronald Reagan - and it has placed >>>>us in a situation that we can only look at - like a "B" movie. >>>> >>>>Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren't zeros. >>>>Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and >>>>all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous "B" >>>>movie. The producer underwritten by all the millionaires necessary will >>>>be Casper "The Defensive" Weinberger - no more animated choice is >>>>available. The director will be Attila the Haig, running around >>>>frantically declaring himself in control and in charge. The ultimate >>>>realization of the inmates taking over at the asylum. The screenplay >>>>will be adapted from the book called "Voodoo Economics" by George "Papa >>>>Doc" Bush. Music by the "Village People" the very military "Macho Man." >>>> >>>>"Company!!!" >>>>"Macho, macho man!" >>>>" Two-three-four." >>>>" He likes to be - well, you get the point." >>>>"Huuut! Your left! Your left! Your left...right, left, right, left, >>>> >>>> >right...!" > > >>>>A theme song for saber-rallying and selling wars door-to-door. Remember, >>>>we're looking for the closest thing we can find to John Wayne. Clichés >>>>abound like kangaroos - courtesy of some spaced out Marlin Perkins, a >>>>Reagan contemporary. Clichés like, "itchy trigger finger" and "tall in >>>>the saddle" and "riding off or on into the sunset." Clichés like, "Get >>>>off of my planet by sundown!" More so than clichés like, "he died with >>>>his boots on." Marine tough the man is. Bogart tough the man is. Cagney >>>>tough the man is. Hollywood tough the man is. Cheap stick tough. And >>>>Bonzo's substantial. The ultimate in synthetic selling: A Madison Avenue >>>>masterpiece - a miracle - a cotton-candy politician...Presto! Macho! >>>> >>>>"Macho, macho man!" >>>> >>>>Put your orders in America. And quick as Kodak your leaders duplicate >>>>with the accent being on the nukes - cause all of a sudden we have >>>>fallen prey to selective amnesia - remembering what we want to remember >>>>and forgetting what we choose to forget. All of a sudden, the man who >>>>called for a blood bath on our college campuses is supposed to be Dudley >>>>"God-damn" Do-Right? >>>> >>>>"You go give them liberals hell Ronnie." That was the mandate. To the >>>>new "Captain Bly" on the new ship of fools. It was doubtlessly based on >>>>his chameleon performance of the past - as a liberal democrat - as the >>>>head of the Studio Actor's Guild. When other celluloid saviors were >>>>cringing in terror from McCarthy - Ron stood tall. It goes all the way >>>>back from Hollywood to hillbilly. From liberal to libelous, from "Bonzo" >>>>to Birch idol...born again. Civil rights, women's rights, gay rights...it's >>>>all wrong. Call in the cavalry to disrupt this perception of freedom >>>>gone wild. God damn it...first one wants freedom, then the whole damn >>>>world wants freedom. >>>> >>>>Nostalgia, that's what we want...the good ol' days...when we gave'em hell. >>>>When the buck stopped somewhere and you could still buy something with >>>>it. To a time when movies were in black and white - and so was >>>>everything else. Even if we go back to the campaign trail, before >>>>six-gun Ron shot off his face and developed hoof-in-mouth. Before the >>>>free press went down before full-court press. And were reluctant to >>>>review the menu because they knew the only thing available was - Crow. >>>> >>>>Lon Chaney, our man of a thousand faces - no match for Ron. Doug Henning >>>>does the make-up - special effects from Grecian Formula 16 and Crazy >>>>Glue. Transportation furnished by the David Rockefeller of Remote >>>>Control Company. Their slogan is, "Why wait for 1984? You can panic >>>>now...and avoid the rush." >>>> >>>>So much for the good news... >>>> >>>>As Wall Street goes, so goes the nation. And here's a look at the >>>>closing numbers - racism's up, human rights are down, peace is shaky, >>>>war items are hot - the House claims all ties. Jobs are down, money is >>>>scarce - and common sense is at an all-time low on heavy trading. Movies >>>>were looking better than ever and now no one is looking because, we're >>>>starring in a "B" movie. And we would rather had John Wayne...we would >>>>rather had John Wayne. >>>> >>>>"You don't need to be in no hurry. >>>>You ain't never really got to worry. >>>>And you don't need to check on how you feel. >>>>Just keep repeating that none of this is real. >>>>And if you're sensing, that something's wrong, >>>>Well just remember, that it won't be too long >>>>Before the director cuts the scene...yea." >>>> >>>>"This ain't really your life, >>>>Ain't really your life, >>>>Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie." >>>> >>>>[Refrain repeated about 25 times or more in an apocalyptic crescendo >>>>with a military cadence.] >>>> >>>>"This ain't really your life, >>>>Ain't really your life, >>>>Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>"B Movie" >>>><>lyrics: Gil Scott-Heron >>>> >>>>From the album "Reflections >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>" >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Stay Strong >>>>\ >>>>"Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" >>>>--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) >>>>\ >>>>"We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to >>>> >>>> >a > > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>process of humiliation." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>--patrick o'neil >>>>\ >>>>"...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" >>>>--harry belafonte >>>>\ >>>>"...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and >>>>amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of >>>>our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" >>>> >>>>"...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people >>>> >>>> >who, > > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, >>>they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we >>>will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud >>>ahmadinejad >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>\ >>>>http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php >>>>\ >>>>http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php >>>>\ >>>>http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date >>>>\ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>\ >>>>http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ >>>>\ >>>>} >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." >>> --Emily Dickinson >>> >>>Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >>> >>>Aldon L. Nielsen >>>Kelly Professor of American Literature >>>The Pennsylvania State University >>>116 Burrowes >>>University Park, PA 16802-6200 >>> >>>(814) 865-0091 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 > > > -- {\rtf1\mac\ansicpg10000\cocoartf102 {\fonttbl\f0\fswiss\fcharset77 Helvetica;} {\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;} \margl1440\margr1440\vieww9000\viewh9000\viewkind0 \pard\tx560\tx1120\tx1680\tx2240\tx2800\tx3360\tx3920\tx4480\tx5040\tx5600\tx6160\tx6720\ql\qnatural \f0\fs24 \cf0 \ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation."\ --patrick o'neil\ \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor"\ --harry belafonte\ \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and\ amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of\ our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?"\ \ "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad\ \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php\ \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:55:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound In-Reply-To: <321.5db3330.31c8837b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if it's a moment of invective, then two of the omitted characters might be "ar" making "arse"--but that doesn't help much I guess > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael > Johnson Canada > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 3:47 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2006 2:50:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > quarterm@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA writes: > > I need some help on this line from Pound's Cantos: > "(that's progress, me yr' ' ' se/call it progress/)" > From the Pisan Cantos, Canto 76, page 455 in the New > Diretcions one-volume Cantos. I'm completely baffled by that > "me yr' ' ' se/call" -- that's three spaced apostrophes in a > row, presumably marking an abbreviation (or two? or three?. > I suppose it could be a type, but I kinda doubt it (the > forward-slash works as an opening parenthesis). > > Can anyone help? > > Thanks, > PQ > > > > Another koan-ish line from EzP. I've yet to spot an > insightful glossing from > Poundians on this enigma, so we're deliriously on our own. > Carroll Terrell's > massive _A Companion to the Cantos_ only glosses this bit as > "progress": > "Note repetition of this line." (?) Do the three spaced > apostrophes indicate the > line "that's progress, me yr" should be repeated twice more, > sorta like how > a repetitive musical phrase is sometimes indicated by the > phrase itself, then > repeated three more times thus / / / ? William Cookson offers > nada in his > Guide re me yr/se call it progress. > > But look at the context: That section appears to be Ez in his > Pisan cage, > overhearing his fellow American POWs, their idiolect and > repartee. Pound seems > to be commenting on "criminals and their intellectual > interests." And two > African Americans are overheard (at least one of them > suspected of murder), and > one apparently (suddenly?) and ironically drops a line of > Latin, "ante mortem > no scortum" ("before death no prostitute"). > > Or is it mad Ez saying before death no prostitute? If so, it > seems to > harmonize with EP's sarcastic tones; they don't let you have > a hooker before they > hang you anymore. That's some sorta "moral progress"? > > "Me" in italian: me, myself. BUT: "yr"??? That's got me. > > As of today, I gloss this bit as "That's progress from me to > you. That's > progress. That's progress. Yea, call it progress." > > Your working gloss PQ? > > -michael > Berkeley, CA > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:58:36 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Hamilton-Emery Subject: NEW FROM SALT Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable SUMMER READS FROM SALT Ian Gregson Call Centre Love Song ISBN 978-1-84471-256-4 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844712567.htm Tony Lopez Meaning Performance: Essays on Poetry ISBN 978-1-84471-082-9 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/rec/1844710823.htm D.S. Marriott Incognegro ISBN 978-1-84471-261-8 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844712613.htm Vivian Smith Along the Line ISBN 978-1-84471-066-9 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710661.htm John Wilkinson Lake Shore Drive ISBN 978-1-84471-255-7 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844712559.htm Very best Chris Chris Hamilton-Emery | Publishing Director |=A0Salt Publishing Ltd PO Box 937 | Great Wilbraham |=A0Cambridge | CB1 5JX |=A0+44 (0)1223 882220 101 Ways to Make Poems Sell available now! Click below to read more! http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/sgrw/1844711161.htm The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It is intended only for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely on information contained in this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this mail in error, please inform us immediately at sales@saltpublishing.com and delete it and all copies from your system. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:59:40 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Hamilton-Emery Subject: New podcasts available now Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable New free podcasts available at the Salt Web JOHN WILKINSON IN PERFORMANCE POEMS FROM EFFIGIES AGAINST THE LIGHT http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857382.htm POEMS FROM CONTRIVANCES http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857609.htm POEMS FROM PROUD FLESH http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smc/1844710653.htm POEMS FROM LAKE SHORE DRIVE http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844712559.htm Very best Chris Chris Hamilton-Emery | Publishing Director |=A0Salt Publishing Ltd PO Box 937 | Great Wilbraham |=A0Cambridge | CB1 5JX |=A0+44 (0)1223 882220 101 Ways to Make Poems Sell available now! Click below to read more! http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/sgrw/1844711161.htm The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It is intended only for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely on information contained in this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this mail in error, please inform us immediately at sales@saltpublishing.com and delete it and all copies from your system. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:09:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: Re: Review The No-Net World CD : POEMS AND (RUSSIAN) TRANSLATIONS In-Reply-To: <221.d2684c8.31c8a930@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hey lariss cooking review just the thing.sm >From: Larissa Shmailo >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Review The No-Net World CD : POEMS AND (RUSSIAN) TRANSLATIONS >Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:28:16 EDT > > >Larissa Shmailo >The No-Net World >Eggplant Press >0-935080-01-4 >Produced by SongCrew Records >_http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo_ (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo) >_http://www.tower.com_ (http://www.tower.com/) >iTUNES: >_http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=148258 >762_ >(http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=148258762) >Reviewed by Eric Yost >While many poets want to take poetry from academia to the streets, Larissa >Shmailo's " >The No-Net World" shows what poets might do when they get there. >The eighteen poems on this disc are powerfully read by the author. >Selected >from her ten years deep in the New York poetry scene, some are >accompanied >by Bobby Perfect–whose performance here measures up to his name. >Shmailo's >voice and technique are impressive, as is her ability to span worlds and >resist >labels and ideologies. >The No-Net World, the CD's title poem, goes inside the life of someone who >imperceptibly, and through no fault of her own, spirals into poverty and >homelessness. This gut-wrenching poem works so well not only because >Shmailo knows >our flawed local and national social support systems, but also because her >innate compassion allows her writing to get inside other voices and other >lives. At a time when poets are more concerned with polishing the hipness >of >their self-image or marketing their signature voices, Shmailo has the >courage and >heart to put aside self and show us Other. In her handling of other >voices, >demonstrated in poems like "Williamsburg Poem, " "Madwoman," and "Johnny I >Love You Don't Die," Shmailo ranks among our very finest poets. >It is perhaps because of this intense consciousness of the other that the >poem The No-Net World has become an anthem for help for the homeless, >traveling >from poets to political groups, from Loisaida to the pamphlets of the >Australian Worker’s Party, published by Street News, performed and >recorded by >other poets. >The collection balances insights forged by regret, such as “Death at >Sea" >and "California," with pure vital force, such as "In Paran" and "Shore." >With >rhythmic insistence and intelligent energy, Shmailo diagnoses the >lemming's >rush of culture in "Lager NYC." >Then there are her translations of Pushkin and Mayakovsky. Shmailo avoids >the traps of a purely functional equivalent reading. Instead, she gives us >Pushkin's semantic load complete, without sacrificing the meter or >tonality of >the original. In this she recalls Nabokov's translation of "Eugene >Onegin," but >without the pedantry that sometimes mars that great writer's efforts. >Shmailo, who has worked as a scientific Russian translator for NASA, >brings the >poems to us whole and literally doesn't miss a beat. >Finally, there is "How My Family Survived the Camps," a gripping account >of >life as a slave worker for the Nazis, where the only way out is through a >smokestack in Dora Camp. Here guilt and necessity merge into a stoic hymn >to >pure survival, a testament of courage and resourcefulness that we should >never >be without. If, as Ahkmatova said, "in this most Christian of worlds, all >poets are Jews," Shmailo shows us the transcendent destiny of insisting on >ourselves. Every serious poet should have this CD available as a reminder >of the >standards to which we aspire. _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:11:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8C861F97609B468-1BB0-72@MBLK-M12.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed invited plus.sm >From: Larissa Shmailo >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: (no subject) >Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:52:50 -0400 > >I hope that means I'm invited. 7/9, give time, I'd love to come.. > > Larissa Shmailo >253 West 72nd Street #715 >New York, NY 10023 >212/712-9865 >slidingsca@aol.com >http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo >larissashmailo.blogspot.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: susan maurer >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Sent: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:37:35 -0400 >Subject: (no subject) > > >after seeing gabbeh i was struck with the easy integration of poetry into >everyday life , the laundress singing some as she washed in a stream..i >learned that in some countries it would not be at all unusual for people to >share poetry at a dinner party and poems set to music were on the country's >top ten list. i thought of all that poetry zipping aroung genji and decided >to try to do my little bit to make poetry less ghettoized in bookshelves as >it often seems to me to be in america. i began stalking my buildings coop >president, grilling total strangers in the elevator and this resulted in >what is now the 4th annual poety reading in the lobby of 210 east 15th st. >in nyc.i was surprised at the talent that turned up and at least 5 books of >poetry or more among the crew as well as a clio winning librettist, and a >nine year old writing a novel.ron barenberg produced a wonderful record of >the poets on manhattanpoets.com .the next reading is 7/9 at 5pm and we >expect to have as much fun..susan maurer > >_________________________________________________________________ > >_________________________________________________________________ >Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ >________________________________________________________________________ >Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and >IM. All on demand. Always Free. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:41:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: **Advertise in Boog City 35** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The upcoming Boog City, issue 35, is going to press Thurs. July 6, and our indie discount ad rate is here to stay. We are once again offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also applies to larger ads.) Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles, your band's new album, your label's new releases. 2,000 issues are distributed throughout Manhattan's East Village and Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Email as soon as possible to reserve ad space, and ads need to be in on or by Fri. June 30. (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. thanks, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:49:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: angel Sarah became Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response angel Sarah became whole world sacrifice idolaters beasts came Close hole getting SINNERS sacrifice idolaters beasts came Close whole world who time Eurico plunged very very cards own buying Shield Abraham Satan Shield Abraham Satan answer know who time Eurico plunged very very answer know gift felt giddy gift felt giddy account rights plunged very very plunged very very beasts came Close suspicion David corrupt spite bring God power deliver mentor grace God Harding's made God power deliver mentor grace God bring Special Operations amazed descendants thy stranger city up godless far Gordon godless far Gordon monitoring Special Operations amazed descendants monitoring supplied piece supplied piece questioning elderly amazed descendants amazed descendants mentor grace God saying Thy son selfish man Isaac bloody ordered cast against managerial extirpated root silver gold round against managerial extirpated root bloody ordered cast Jacob lay thou shalt forbidden Sodom behold car wheelbase reward Abraham reward Abraham Physical took two Jacob lay thou shalt forbidden Sodom Physical took two carried khaki carried khaki condemned death forbidden Sodom forbidden Sodom extirpated root point Hagar god who walking sword through wild beasts evil results three landmine separated relations between evil results three landmine separated through wild beasts only through spot trigered through ESAU sheep none like matter shall all matter shall all being synonymous only through spot trigered through being synonymous wheat mile becomes wheat mile becomes cursing also trigered through trigered through landmine separated dream most angel Sarah became August Highland -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 6/19/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:49:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Anyone want to review my show at Tribes Gallery? Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi, everyone who'll be in NYC in July: I am showing some print and sculptured objects at Tribes Gallery (with Serg= io Barrale) from July 6 until July 25. The press-only showing will be on Su= nday, July 2, and I'm inviting anyone who'd like to review the show to come= . I'm not sure about the time but if you agree to come I can find out soon. Also, the opening reception will be on Thursday, July 6th from 6 till 9. If anyone is interested, I can send them the press release or mail them pos= tcards for the show.=20 I will be grateful to all who come to review the show. This is my first, an= d it's very exciting! Cheers, all! Christophe Casamassima --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:11:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Marzahl, Kevin M" Subject: more sense for Alex & Jason MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alex and Jason, I very much appreciated your own responses. I take it, Alex, that the parable of the beaver would be your pessimistic? fatalistic? characterization of homo sap. It reminds me of Andy Clark=92s notion that humans are =93natural born cyborgs,=94 i.e., we annex and appropriate and extend ourselves with prosthesis after prosthesis, it=92s just what we do. But as you say, the ancient concept of =93stewardship=94 would seem= to suggest that there is another dimension to being human that complicates, for those who recognize it, the automatic altering of environs. When you say =93nothing more than a complex series of electro, bio-chemical connections occurring randomly and passed on genetically through all the myriad of species,=94 though, I have to say that I don=92t think there=92s any =93nothing more=94 about it; the emergence of self-consciousness and social orders from such processes, which we barely understand even as we continue to endanger them, deserves a healthy respect, although I stop short of calling it miraculous. In other words, about Jesus I have nothing in particular to say (my own path is more or less Buddhist). About Badiou and his zeal (explicitly compared by himself to Pascal=92s zealously Christian appeals to =93nihilist libertines,=94 i.e., the =93speculative left=94) I am still trying to decide what to say. For a book concerned with formulating =93atheological axioms,=94 it is remarkably= full of theological diction. It is, indeed, a book for specialists (=93specialists in the labyrinth,=94 in his often all-too-cryptic terms) and that part of me invested in robust, ordinary language has increasingly little patience for such projects even as I recognize, as I have indicated elsewhere, the necessity for functional differentiation in a modern society. I would probably not be reading the book were there not pressures to stay current (interesting that =93current=94 here means a text from 1988 only now available in translation)--pressures which, not incidentally, include imperatives to participate in online activites (about which one is deeply ambivalent) lest one be accused of living in a cave or even a vacuum. I certainly don=92t need Badiou's theory to ground my own =93militant=94 and =93creativ= e=94 practices. But it is a provocative text and is useful to me insomuch as it continues to generate questions; whether it makes good on its promise of a post-Lacanian theory of the subject I cannot yet say. The relevance of such a theory to the advocacy of sustainable practices of everyday life also eludes me, but given the combined phenomena of =93ecopoetics=94 and the captivation of contemporary poetics generally by Lacanian theory it seems to me that if anyone anywhere can offer such an explanation, this would be the place to ask. About Language, Jason, I will say this much: one thing that =93The Constructivist Moment=94 has made clear to me so far is that one will never be able to mount as effective a critique of that set of practices as members of that cohort continue to make of themselves; the powerful and ongoing criticism/self-criticism at the heart of the formation (and dissolution) of a =93revolutionary cadre=94 or avantgarde is too fraught with micropolitics--which of course extend into this very Listserv and condition what its participants are and are not willing to discuss and lead, perhaps, not only to the strange phenomenon of people being discussed in the third person when they are in the room but also to conclusions such as your own: =93the less said by me about that, the better.=94 Thank you both again for your replies. Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:47:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Re: Anyone want to review my show at Tribes Gallery? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Will this be for Tribes Magazine? I'd like to. Let's talk =20 =20 Larissa Shmailo has been published in Newsweek, Rattapallax, Lungfull!,=20 American Translator=E2=80=99s Slavfile and many other publications. She tra= nslated the =20 Russian Futurist opera Victory over the Sun by A. Kruchenych, performed at=20= the=20 Brooklyn Academy of Music=E2=80=99s Next Wave Festival and exhibited at the= Los=20 Angeles County Museum and the Hirshhorn Museum. She has received =E2=80=9CCr= itic=E2=80=99s Picks=E2=80=9D=20 notices for her readings from the New York Times, Village Voice, and Time=20 Out magazine. Her poetry CD, The No-Net World , is available at =20 _http://www.cdbaby.com_ (http://www.cdbaby.com/) , _http://www_ (http://www= ) .=20 tower.com, City Lights Bookstore, and St. Mark=E2=80=99s Books. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:48:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Richard Jeffrey Newman - Upcoming Reading MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Saturday June 24, 6-8 PM Dactyl Foundation for the Arts & Humanities 64 Grand Street (between West Broadway & Wooster) For more information: 212.219.2344 or maria@dactyl.org $8 donation, drinks will be served. Richard Jeffrey Newman is the featured reader; he will read from his new book, The Silence Of Men. There will also be an open mic. **************************************************************************** Richard Jeffrey Newman is a poet, essayist and translator. In addition to The Silence Of Men, he has published two books of translations from classical Persian literature, Selections from Saadi's Gulistan and Selections from Saadi's Bustan (both from Global Scholarly Publications, 2004 and 2006 respectively). He has been publishing his work since 1988, when the essay "His Sexuality; Her Reproductive Rights" appeared in Changing Men magazine. Since then, his work has appeared in a wide range of journals, including Prairie Schooner, ACM, and the Birmingham Poetry Review. As well, his work was recently anthologized in Access Literature (Thomson Wadsworth, 2005). Currently, in addition to working on his second book of poems, he is translating selections from the Shahnameh, the Persian national epic, and collaborating with Professor John Moyne on a new Rumi anthology. Richard Jeffrey Newman sits on the advisory board of The Translation Project and he listed as a speaker with the New York Council for the Humanities. He is an Associate Professor in the English Department at Nassau Community College in Garden City, New York. For more information, please visit his website: www.richardjnewman.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:58:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: 1 2 events MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit june 27th 2006 at 7 pm at tribes gallery 285 e 3rd st steve dalachinsky will be reading with drummer federico ughi _______________________________ Tearin’ it Up Poetry & Collage with Star Black, Steve Dalachinsky, Bob Heman, Viraj Kamdar, Valery Oisteanu, Yuko Otomo, Dave Roskos, Michele Somerville and Jeffrey Cyphers Wright hosted by Don Burmeister http://www.safetgallery.com/ Thursday, June 29, 2006, 7pm Safe-T-Gallery 111 Front Street in the heart of DUMBO F TRAIN TO YORK STREET, A BLOCK EAST TO THE GALLERY BDLG --- skyplums@juno.com wrote: > great got it but please spell yuko's namre right > otomo > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:10:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Anyone want to review my show at Tribes Gallery? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sure mayber me chris for tribes zine steve ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:07:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: ED Roberson Email In-Reply-To: <20060619.080029.-223241.8.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have Ed's email R ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:14:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound In-Reply-To: <000701c6942e$1a9c5fa0$6401a8c0@Tenney> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Well, yes, thanks both. Invective, yes, I'd say so, and "progress" in = the pisan cantos is of course persistently and grimly ironic.=20 I'm beginning to wonder if the keyboard on the typewriter in the office = at Pisa was (yet again) different from the one EP was used to, in that this time round the apostrophe was uppercase number 8, which on other = keyboards (like the one I'm using now, and like my old old old portable Olivetti) = was an asterisk.=20 This reflection doesn't get me any forrarder, actually, since it still leaves " yr* * * se" cryptic. "Your arse" is what I thought it might be, too, but there are so very few instances of uncorrected typos that this interpretation (I cannot call it an understanding) is still moot. I'd really welcome further explanations / thoughts. This line is, = though, a disturbance in a Canto which (especially in these and the surrounding = lines) is concerned with unresolved disturbances.... (But I don't actually = think EP is into this kind of imitative form. So I'm still more than a little baffled. P =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Tenney Nathanson Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:55 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound if it's a moment of invective, then two of the omitted characters might = be "ar" making "arse"--but that doesn't help much I guess > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group=20 > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael=20 > Johnson Canada > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 3:47 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound >=20 >=20 > =20 > In a message dated 6/19/2006 2:50:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, =20 > quarterm@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA writes: >=20 > I need some help on this line from Pound's Cantos: > "(that's progress, me yr' ' ' se/call it progress/)" > From the Pisan Cantos, Canto 76, page 455 in the New=20 > Diretcions one-volume Cantos. I'm completely baffled by that=20 > "me yr' ' ' se/call" -- that's three spaced apostrophes in a=20 > row, presumably marking an abbreviation (or two? or three?.=20 > I suppose it could be a type, but I kinda doubt it (the =20 > forward-slash works as an opening parenthesis). >=20 > Can anyone help? =20 >=20 > Thanks, > PQ >=20 >=20 >=20 > Another koan-ish line from EzP. I've yet to spot an=20 > insightful glossing from=20 > Poundians on this enigma, so we're deliriously on our own.=20 > Carroll Terrell's=20 > massive _A Companion to the Cantos_ only glosses this bit as =20 > "progress":=20 > "Note repetition of this line." (?) Do the three spaced=20 > apostrophes indicate the=20 > line "that's progress, me yr" should be repeated twice more,=20 > sorta like how=20 > a repetitive musical phrase is sometimes indicated by the=20 > phrase itself, then=20 > repeated three more times thus / / / ? William Cookson offers=20 > nada in his=20 > Guide re me yr/se call it progress. > =20 > But look at the context: That section appears to be Ez in his=20 > Pisan cage, =20 > overhearing his fellow American POWs, their idiolect and=20 > repartee. Pound seems =20 > to be commenting on "criminals and their intellectual=20 > interests." And two =20 > African Americans are overheard (at least one of them=20 > suspected of murder), and =20 > one apparently (suddenly?) and ironically drops a line of=20 > Latin, "ante mortem=20 > no scortum" ("before death no prostitute").=20 > =20 > Or is it mad Ez saying before death no prostitute? If so, it=20 > seems to =20 > harmonize with EP's sarcastic tones; they don't let you have=20 > a hooker before they=20 > hang you anymore. That's some sorta "moral progress"?=20 > =20 > "Me" in italian: me, myself. BUT: "yr"??? That's got me.=20 > =20 > As of today, I gloss this bit as "That's progress from me to=20 > you. That's =20 > progress. That's progress. Yea, call it progress." > =20 > Your working gloss PQ? > =20 > -michael > Berkeley, CA >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:41:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound In-Reply-To: <000001c694c7$b4c5c320$a35e17cf@Diogenes> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed i read it as a progression of pronouns of one sort or another me (english, first person, singular possessive) yr (Old English third person plural, if you read the y as a thorn, possessive, "Their" yeah?) '( standing in for yr Middle English second person plural)'(standing in for yr modern English second person singular possessive, which all the other yrs have collapsed into) and then se that wonderful latin reflexive pronoun that the various romance languages hammer into all sorts of uses. call it progress indeed. On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Peter Quartermain wrote: > Well, yes, thanks both. Invective, yes, I'd say so, and "progress" in the > pisan cantos is of course persistently and grimly ironic. > > I'm beginning to wonder if the keyboard on the typewriter in the office at > Pisa was (yet again) different from the one EP was used to, in that this > time round the apostrophe was uppercase number 8, which on other keyboards > (like the one I'm using now, and like my old old old portable Olivetti) was > an asterisk. > > This reflection doesn't get me any forrarder, actually, since it still > leaves " yr* * * se" cryptic. "Your arse" is what I thought it might be, > too, but there are so very few instances of uncorrected typos that this > interpretation (I cannot call it an understanding) is still moot. > > I'd really welcome further explanations / thoughts. This line is, though, a > disturbance in a Canto which (especially in these and the surrounding lines) > is concerned with unresolved disturbances.... (But I don't actually think EP > is into this kind of imitative form. So I'm still more than a little > baffled. > > P > ========= > Peter Quartermain > 846 Keefer Street > Vancouver > BC Canada V6A 1Y7 > 604 255 8274 (voice) > 604 255 8204 fax > quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca > ========= > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Tenney Nathanson > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:55 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound > > if it's a moment of invective, then two of the omitted characters might be > "ar" making "arse"--but that doesn't help much I guess > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael >> Johnson Canada >> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 3:47 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound >> >> >> >> In a message dated 6/19/2006 2:50:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> quarterm@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA writes: >> >> I need some help on this line from Pound's Cantos: >> "(that's progress, me yr' ' ' se/call it progress/)" >> From the Pisan Cantos, Canto 76, page 455 in the New >> Diretcions one-volume Cantos. I'm completely baffled by that >> "me yr' ' ' se/call" -- that's three spaced apostrophes in a >> row, presumably marking an abbreviation (or two? or three?. >> I suppose it could be a type, but I kinda doubt it (the >> forward-slash works as an opening parenthesis). >> >> Can anyone help? >> >> Thanks, >> PQ >> >> >> >> Another koan-ish line from EzP. I've yet to spot an >> insightful glossing from >> Poundians on this enigma, so we're deliriously on our own. >> Carroll Terrell's >> massive _A Companion to the Cantos_ only glosses this bit as >> "progress": >> "Note repetition of this line." (?) Do the three spaced >> apostrophes indicate the >> line "that's progress, me yr" should be repeated twice more, >> sorta like how >> a repetitive musical phrase is sometimes indicated by the >> phrase itself, then >> repeated three more times thus / / / ? William Cookson offers >> nada in his >> Guide re me yr/se call it progress. >> >> But look at the context: That section appears to be Ez in his >> Pisan cage, >> overhearing his fellow American POWs, their idiolect and >> repartee. Pound seems >> to be commenting on "criminals and their intellectual >> interests." And two >> African Americans are overheard (at least one of them >> suspected of murder), and >> one apparently (suddenly?) and ironically drops a line of >> Latin, "ante mortem >> no scortum" ("before death no prostitute"). >> >> Or is it mad Ez saying before death no prostitute? If so, it >> seems to >> harmonize with EP's sarcastic tones; they don't let you have >> a hooker before they >> hang you anymore. That's some sorta "moral progress"? >> >> "Me" in italian: me, myself. BUT: "yr"??? That's got me. >> >> As of today, I gloss this bit as "That's progress from me to >> you. That's >> progress. That's progress. Yea, call it progress." >> >> Your working gloss PQ? >> >> -michael >> Berkeley, CA >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:07:22 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: On Boycotts, Activism, and Moral Standards MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/50405.php http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060619105958140 http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/649 ...The thought of becoming yet another person to abandon the Palestinians was abhorrent. And it was obvious that Iraq would further divert American and world attention from Israel’s occupation, perhaps one of the war’s many intended results. So I stayed at my post. ....The South African boycott and the campaign to free the “terrorist” Nelson Mandela were international actions of conscience against a racist colonizing power that refused to change its ways. We would be applying a double standard if we did not act on the same conscience today, to boycott and cut off funds to Israel and pressure it into ending its own regime of ethnic supremacy. -- James Brooks -- "On Boycotts, Activism, and Moral Standards" On Boycotts, Activism, and Moral Standards Monday, June 19 2006 @ 10:59 AM PDT Contributed by: arch_stanton Gideon Levy, of the Israeli daily Ha’aretz, is an artist at the crafts of reportage and commentary. Prolific yet deeply thoughtful and fair, Levy delivers his subjects whole and unfiltered on the page, speaking from the heart in their own voices. His analysis is honest, insightful, and often devastating in its indictment of Israel’s occupation. On Boycotts, Activism, and Moral Standards by James Brooks Dissident Voice Gideon Levy, of the Israeli daily Ha’aretz, is an artist at the crafts of reportage and commentary. Prolific yet deeply thoughtful and fair, Levy delivers his subjects whole and unfiltered on the page, speaking from the heart in their own voices. His analysis is honest, insightful, and often devastating in its indictment of Israel’s occupation. Yet even the most ardent fan will find cause to quibble from time to time. In a piece that cleverly exposes the hypocrisy in Israel’s complaint that boycott and divestment campaigns against it are “illegitimate” ("With a little help from the outside," Ha’aretz, June 8, 2006), Levy also charges international activists with a “moral double standard” in expending their outrage against Israel when they should be tending the home fires. For instance, British and Canadian boycotters should shoulder their own responsibilities and work to end their countries’ occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. Whatever the origin of this critique, it deserves rebuttal because it puts political activism in a conceptual and moral straitjacket while denying the fundamentally international character of Israel’s occupation. As a citizen of the United States, I have been an activist working to end US support for Israel’s occupation. Mr. Levy’s work has been part of my education in the human tragedies of this war. With other anti-occupation activists, I demonstrated and wrote repeatedly against the Iraq war before it began. But once it was underway I had to make a difficult decision; would I continue as before, or focus on the long fight against our crimes in Iraq? The thought of becoming yet another person to abandon the Palestinians was abhorrent. And it was obvious that Iraq would further divert American and world attention from Israel’s occupation, perhaps one of the war’s many intended results. So I stayed at my post. It remains a difficult decision today, but I do not regret it. Does it constitute a “moral double standard”? When my friends and I work to “free Palestine”, our main goal is to end our government’s financial, military, and diplomatic support for the occupation. We feel compelled to support the Palestinians against a vicious onslaught partially financed by our own money. We also see that our government’s long-running support for Israel’s war is connected to other pernicious trends in our foreign policy and political culture, including the destruction of Iraq and US belligerence toward Iran and Syria. In this secondary but far-reaching and sometimes fatal sense, Americans, too, are victimized by Israel’s occupation. Indeed, the more I understand the forces and history driving this conflict and my country’s hand in it, the more I appreciate the force of the truism that we are all connected, that what happens to anyone affects everyone else in some way. War is an ignorant denial of this human fact. Boycott and divestment campaigns are grassroots efforts to publicize the extreme plight of the Palestinians and protest western nations’ support for Israel’s demands. They can become the nucleus of a growing public awareness that could eventually produce political change. In a “free market” economy, there should be no question as to the right of consumers and organizations to make and promote joint decisions about their purchases and investments. I assume the people behind the CUPE boycott and the now-expired NATFHE action have been working against the occupation for a long time. It takes years to develop that kind of “unpopular consensus” in any large organization. And success in any endeavor brings its own raft of moral considerations. When the Canadian government foolishly took on occupation duties for the “Coalition,” should CUPE activists have thrown up years of progress in raising awareness about Palestine in order to refocus their energies on Afghanistan? Wouldn’t that have entailed its own faulty standards and moral anguish, if not outright abdication of responsibility? We activists are certainly not immune to the easy attractions of double standards. But if we are working for justice and peace, are we to be faulted for the issue we address? Often the issue seems to choose the person, and we become enmeshed in personal and moral obligations we never expected to face. There is no single honest answer to these individual circumstances. In closing, I’d like to propose a settlement to the frothy debate over the “legitimacy” of the growing international campaign to boycott Israel and its accomplices. It can be stated in two elementary observations. First, I assume we agree that the international embargo against apartheid South Africa was a morally sound and effective tool to hasten justice in that colonized land. Second, veteran South African freedom fighters from Archbishop Desmond Tutu to labor organizers and SA government officials have been saying for several years that the situation in occupied Palestine is worse than the oppression they suffered under white South Africa. (And that was before the current economic siege, the draconian new permit systems strangling the West Bank and forcing Palestinians out of the Jordan Valley, the rising new tide of deaths caused by the spreading paralysis of the Palestinian health care system, etc. etc.) Who will argue with the people who defeated South African apartheid and have experienced Israel’s version of the same system? The South African boycott and the campaign to free the “terrorist” Nelson Mandela were international actions of conscience against a racist colonizing power that refused to change its ways. We would be applying a double standard if we did not act on the same conscience today, to boycott and cut off funds to Israel and pressure it into ending its own regime of ethnic supremacy. -- Stay Strong \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:14:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Wellman" Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try one mark as an apostrophe the other two as the letters: yr'arse Which establishes a large slur for the purpose of intonation. Donald Wellman http://faculty.dwc.edu/wellman/pubs.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Quartermain" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:14 PM Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound Well, yes, thanks both. Invective, yes, I'd say so, and "progress" in the pisan cantos is of course persistently and grimly ironic. I'm beginning to wonder if the keyboard on the typewriter in the office at Pisa was (yet again) different from the one EP was used to, in that this time round the apostrophe was uppercase number 8, which on other keyboards (like the one I'm using now, and like my old old old portable Olivetti) was an asterisk. This reflection doesn't get me any forrarder, actually, since it still leaves " yr* * * se" cryptic. "Your arse" is what I thought it might be, too, but there are so very few instances of uncorrected typos that this interpretation (I cannot call it an understanding) is still moot. I'd really welcome further explanations / thoughts. This line is, though, a disturbance in a Canto which (especially in these and the surrounding lines) is concerned with unresolved disturbances.... (But I don't actually think EP is into this kind of imitative form. So I'm still more than a little baffled. P ========= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ========= -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Tenney Nathanson Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:55 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound if it's a moment of invective, then two of the omitted characters might be "ar" making "arse"--but that doesn't help much I guess > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael > Johnson Canada > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 3:47 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2006 2:50:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > quarterm@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA writes: > > I need some help on this line from Pound's Cantos: > "(that's progress, me yr' ' ' se/call it progress/)" > From the Pisan Cantos, Canto 76, page 455 in the New > Diretcions one-volume Cantos. I'm completely baffled by that > "me yr' ' ' se/call" -- that's three spaced apostrophes in a > row, presumably marking an abbreviation (or two? or three?. > I suppose it could be a type, but I kinda doubt it (the > forward-slash works as an opening parenthesis). > > Can anyone help? > > Thanks, > PQ > > > > Another koan-ish line from EzP. I've yet to spot an > insightful glossing from > Poundians on this enigma, so we're deliriously on our own. > Carroll Terrell's > massive _A Companion to the Cantos_ only glosses this bit as > "progress": > "Note repetition of this line." (?) Do the three spaced > apostrophes indicate the > line "that's progress, me yr" should be repeated twice more, > sorta like how > a repetitive musical phrase is sometimes indicated by the > phrase itself, then > repeated three more times thus / / / ? William Cookson offers > nada in his > Guide re me yr/se call it progress. > > But look at the context: That section appears to be Ez in his > Pisan cage, > overhearing his fellow American POWs, their idiolect and > repartee. Pound seems > to be commenting on "criminals and their intellectual > interests." And two > African Americans are overheard (at least one of them > suspected of murder), and > one apparently (suddenly?) and ironically drops a line of > Latin, "ante mortem > no scortum" ("before death no prostitute"). > > Or is it mad Ez saying before death no prostitute? If so, it > seems to > harmonize with EP's sarcastic tones; they don't let you have > a hooker before they > hang you anymore. That's some sorta "moral progress"? > > "Me" in italian: me, myself. BUT: "yr"??? That's got me. > > As of today, I gloss this bit as "That's progress from me to > you. That's > progress. That's progress. Yea, call it progress." > > Your working gloss PQ? > > -michael > Berkeley, CA > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 23:50:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: French poet/artist collaborations at NYPL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Now on at the main branch of the New York Public library -- French Book Art/Livres d'Artistes: Artists and Poets in Dialogue -- more info on the show, with words and pictures -- http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:22:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Well, not so sure-- I'm not sure even Pound is quite that reclusivly byzantine. But that y as thorn is stretching it, no?, given EP's orthographic proclivities. And your ingenious account of "se" I think overreaches the context of this line. But hey, thanks. P =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Jason Quackenbush Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:41 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound i read it as a progression of pronouns of one sort or another me (english, first person, singular possessive) yr (Old English third = person plural, if you read the y as a thorn, possessive, "Their" yeah?) '( = standing in for yr Middle English second person plural)'(standing in for yr = modern English second person singular possessive, which all the other yrs have collapsed into) and then se that wonderful latin reflexive pronoun that = the various romance languages hammer into all sorts of uses. call it progress indeed. On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Peter Quartermain wrote: > Well, yes, thanks both. Invective, yes, I'd say so, and "progress" in = the > pisan cantos is of course persistently and grimly ironic. > > I'm beginning to wonder if the keyboard on the typewriter in the = office at > Pisa was (yet again) different from the one EP was used to, in that = this > time round the apostrophe was uppercase number 8, which on other = keyboards > (like the one I'm using now, and like my old old old portable = Olivetti) was > an asterisk. > > This reflection doesn't get me any forrarder, actually, since it still > leaves " yr* * * se" cryptic. "Your arse" is what I thought it might = be, > too, but there are so very few instances of uncorrected typos that = this > interpretation (I cannot call it an understanding) is still moot. > > I'd really welcome further explanations / thoughts. This line is, = though, a > disturbance in a Canto which (especially in these and the surrounding lines) > is concerned with unresolved disturbances.... (But I don't actually = think EP > is into this kind of imitative form. So I'm still more than a little > baffled. > > P > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Peter Quartermain > 846 Keefer Street > Vancouver > BC Canada V6A 1Y7 > 604 255 8274 (voice) > 604 255 8204 fax > quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Tenney Nathanson > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:55 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound > > if it's a moment of invective, then two of the omitted characters = might be > "ar" making "arse"--but that doesn't help much I guess > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael >> Johnson Canada >> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 3:47 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound >> >> >> >> In a message dated 6/19/2006 2:50:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> quarterm@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA writes: >> >> I need some help on this line from Pound's Cantos: >> "(that's progress, me yr' ' ' se/call it progress/)" >> From the Pisan Cantos, Canto 76, page 455 in the New >> Diretcions one-volume Cantos. I'm completely baffled by that >> "me yr' ' ' se/call" -- that's three spaced apostrophes in a >> row, presumably marking an abbreviation (or two? or three?. >> I suppose it could be a type, but I kinda doubt it (the >> forward-slash works as an opening parenthesis). >> >> Can anyone help? >> >> Thanks, >> PQ >> >> >> >> Another koan-ish line from EzP. I've yet to spot an >> insightful glossing from >> Poundians on this enigma, so we're deliriously on our own. >> Carroll Terrell's >> massive _A Companion to the Cantos_ only glosses this bit as >> "progress": >> "Note repetition of this line." (?) Do the three spaced >> apostrophes indicate the >> line "that's progress, me yr" should be repeated twice more, >> sorta like how >> a repetitive musical phrase is sometimes indicated by the >> phrase itself, then >> repeated three more times thus / / / ? William Cookson offers >> nada in his >> Guide re me yr/se call it progress. >> >> But look at the context: That section appears to be Ez in his >> Pisan cage, >> overhearing his fellow American POWs, their idiolect and >> repartee. Pound seems >> to be commenting on "criminals and their intellectual >> interests." And two >> African Americans are overheard (at least one of them >> suspected of murder), and >> one apparently (suddenly?) and ironically drops a line of >> Latin, "ante mortem >> no scortum" ("before death no prostitute"). >> >> Or is it mad Ez saying before death no prostitute? If so, it >> seems to >> harmonize with EP's sarcastic tones; they don't let you have >> a hooker before they >> hang you anymore. That's some sorta "moral progress"? >> >> "Me" in italian: me, myself. BUT: "yr"??? That's got me. >> >> As of today, I gloss this bit as "That's progress from me to >> you. That's >> progress. That's progress. Yea, call it progress." >> >> Your working gloss PQ? >> >> -michael >> Berkeley, CA >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:22:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound In-Reply-To: <000301c694d0$02521500$0201a8c0@owner> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable YES, Don, that's brilliant, and sounds to me exactly right except for = the spacing of those apostrophes (and I sure wouldn't go the barricades over = my tiny doubt there). Overall it's an UNcharacteristic abbreviation of = EP's.=20 But I do love the ingenuity of the other ideas, including (of course) my own. My oh my, how old Ez can get you going. P =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of D. Wellman Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:14 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound Try one mark as an apostrophe the other two as the letters: yr'arse Which establishes a large slur for the purpose of intonation. Donald Wellman http://faculty.dwc.edu/wellman/pubs.htm ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Peter Quartermain" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:14 PM Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound Well, yes, thanks both. Invective, yes, I'd say so, and "progress" in = the pisan cantos is of course persistently and grimly ironic. I'm beginning to wonder if the keyboard on the typewriter in the office = at Pisa was (yet again) different from the one EP was used to, in that this time round the apostrophe was uppercase number 8, which on other = keyboards (like the one I'm using now, and like my old old old portable Olivetti) = was an asterisk. This reflection doesn't get me any forrarder, actually, since it still leaves " yr* * * se" cryptic. "Your arse" is what I thought it might be, too, but there are so very few instances of uncorrected typos that this interpretation (I cannot call it an understanding) is still moot. I'd really welcome further explanations / thoughts. This line is, = though, a disturbance in a Canto which (especially in these and the surrounding = lines) is concerned with unresolved disturbances.... (But I don't actually = think EP is into this kind of imitative form. So I'm still more than a little baffled. P =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Tenney Nathanson Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:55 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound if it's a moment of invective, then two of the omitted characters might = be "ar" making "arse"--but that doesn't help much I guess > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael > Johnson Canada > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 3:47 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Query: Line by Pound > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2006 2:50:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > quarterm@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA writes: > > I need some help on this line from Pound's Cantos: > "(that's progress, me yr' ' ' se/call it progress/)" > From the Pisan Cantos, Canto 76, page 455 in the New > Diretcions one-volume Cantos. I'm completely baffled by that > "me yr' ' ' se/call" -- that's three spaced apostrophes in a > row, presumably marking an abbreviation (or two? or three?. > I suppose it could be a type, but I kinda doubt it (the > forward-slash works as an opening parenthesis). > > Can anyone help? > > Thanks, > PQ > > > > Another koan-ish line from EzP. I've yet to spot an > insightful glossing from > Poundians on this enigma, so we're deliriously on our own. > Carroll Terrell's > massive _A Companion to the Cantos_ only glosses this bit as > "progress": > "Note repetition of this line." (?) Do the three spaced > apostrophes indicate the > line "that's progress, me yr" should be repeated twice more, > sorta like how > a repetitive musical phrase is sometimes indicated by the > phrase itself, then > repeated three more times thus / / / ? William Cookson offers > nada in his > Guide re me yr/se call it progress. > > But look at the context: That section appears to be Ez in his > Pisan cage, > overhearing his fellow American POWs, their idiolect and > repartee. Pound seems > to be commenting on "criminals and their intellectual > interests." And two > African Americans are overheard (at least one of them > suspected of murder), and > one apparently (suddenly?) and ironically drops a line of > Latin, "ante mortem > no scortum" ("before death no prostitute"). > > Or is it mad Ez saying before death no prostitute? If so, it > seems to > harmonize with EP's sarcastic tones; they don't let you have > a hooker before they > hang you anymore. That's some sorta "moral progress"? > > "Me" in italian: me, myself. BUT: "yr"??? That's got me. > > As of today, I gloss this bit as "That's progress from me to > you. That's > progress. That's progress. Yea, call it progress." > > Your working gloss PQ? > > -michael > Berkeley, CA >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 00:31:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City presents Burning Deck Press at 45 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B- Boog City presents =20 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press =20 Burning Deck Press at 45 (Providence, R.I.) Tues. June 27, 6 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC =20 Event will be hosted by Burning Deck Press editors Rosmarie and Keith Waldrop Featuring readings from Michael Gizzi=20 Ray Ragosta Pam Rehm=20 Marjorie Welish With a soundtheaterpiece performance by Robert Quillen Camp There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. =20 Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B- *About Burning Deck Press **Burning Deck Press began in 1961 as a magazine. In 1961, poets were supposed to be in opposing camps, often inelegantly - and inaccurately - labeled =B3academics=B2 or =B3beats.=B2 The two most widely noted anthologies of th= e time (Donald Allen=B9s and Hall-Pack-Simpson=B9s), both representing the period 1945-1960, contain not a single poet in common. Burning Deck (the magazine) disregarded this split, printing and presented a spread of poets wide enoug= h that on occasion an author would complain of being published in such unprogrammatic company. Though advertised as a =B3quinterly,=B2 the magazine, after only four issues, gave way to a series of chapbooks and - later - books of poetry and short fiction. The direction also changed or, rather, narrowed somewhat. Considering the limited resources of a small press, we realized that a narrower focus made more sense than our original inclusive impulse. We focused on innovative, =B3avantgarde=B2 work which had always been what we were most interested in. If we still seem eclectic it is because we believe that the history of poetry cannot possibly be clear before the poems are written= . It is not denying the importance of =B3movements,=B2 to insist that there is another importance in moving beside or apart from them. After all, there ar= e many judgements, none of them the last. In 1973 the NEA began to support independent publishing, and Burning Deck was able to grow. Anthony Barnett=B9s Poem about Music was our first =B3full length=B2 book of poems, in 1974. Until 1985, we printed Burning Deck publications on our own letterpress. In the beginning it seemed the only way to afford publishing anything at all and, in spite of the drudgery involved, it remains a source of satisfaction= . The automation of bookbinding in 1985 made it financially more feasible to print full books offset and reserve letterpress work for the smaller chapbooks. We admire fine printing (under no illusion that ours is such) an= d admire any press that prints good work, even by mimeo. Our own practice - a middle way -is to design and print books with care, in permanent form (smyth-sewn, acid free paper), but at a price that will not keep them on closed shelves. *Performer Bios* **Robert Quillen Camp is the founder and director of the Dodeska Performanc= e Ensemble. His sound/theater work has been presented in site-specific locations around New York City as well as the Ontological-Hysteric Theater, Dixon Place, Tonic, The Makor, Teachers & Writers, Columbia University, Brown University, Temple University, The Empty Space (Seattle), Elastic Arts(Chicago), The Third Coast International Audio Festival (Chicago), The Constant Theater (Portland, OR), The Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art, an= d the Philadelphia Live Arts Festival. His texts have been published in Conjunctions, Chain, Factorial, Conundrum, and Play: A Journal of Plays. He will perform a couple of sections from =B3Field Trip,=B2 a soundtheaterpiece about transportation. **Michael Gizzi has lived most of his life in Providence, R.I., and Lenox, Mass. Burning Deck Press published three volumes of his poetry: Bird As (1976), Avis (1979), and Species of Intoxication (1983). More recent books are No Both and My Terza Rima, both from The Figures. After editing Hard Press and lingo magazine in the =B990s, Gizzi now co-edits Qua Press with poe= t Craig Watson, in Jamestown, Rhode Island. He is presently a visiting lecturer at Brown University, where he coordinates the Downcity Poetry Series. =20 John Ashbery said of Gizzi=B9s No Both (1997), =B3Razor sharp but also rich and generously compelling, Michael Gizzi=B9s poetry lambastes as it celebrates, bringing us finally to a place of poignant irresolution.=B2 **Ray Ragosta has published Sherds and Varieties of Religious Experience with Burning Deck. Other publications include Opposite Ends and Grondines Episode, both with Paradigm Press. His poems have appeared in magazines lik= e Shiny, Hambone, Oblek, Lingo, and anthologies like A Curious Architecture, (Stride) and 49 + 1, an anthology of American poets in French translation. He lives in Rhode Island. **Burning Deck published Pam Rehm=B9s first full book, The Garment In Which N= o One Had Slept in 1993. More recent books are To Give It Up (Sun & Moon, 1995) as well as Small Works and Gone to Earth, both by Flood Editions. Bor= n in Pennsylvania, she now lives in New York City with her husband and two children.=20 =20 **Poet, painter, and critic Marjorie Welish is the author of several books of poetry, among them The Windows Flew Open (Burning Deck, 1991), The Annotated =B3Here=B2 (2000; a Lenore Marshall Prize finalist) and Word Group (2004, both Coffee House Press). Her art criticism, Signifying Art: Essays on Art After 1960, was published by Cambridge University Press in 1999. The subject of an all-day conference at the University of Pennsylvania, her writing and art and the papers they inspired have now become a book=8BOf the Diagram: The Work of Marjorie Welish (Slought Foundation, 2003). She has taught at Brown University, Cambridge University, Columbia University, The New School University, and at The Pratt Institute. =20 =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues =20 http://www.burningdeck.com/ Next event, Tues. July 11, The Wandering Hermit Review (Buffalo, NY) =8B=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:40:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: Burning Chair ~ Anne Boyer & The Pines ~ 6/25 NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Burning Chair Readings want you to get auricular w/ Anne Boyer & The Pines (Phil Cordelli & Brandon Shimoda) Sunday, June 25th, 4PM The Cloister Café 238 East 9th Street Between 2nd & 3rd Avenues East Village, NYC Always, always free. Our last reading of the season! Contact Matthew Henriksen 917-478-5682 matt at typomag dot come Anne Boyer was born in Kansas in 1973. She grew up in Salina, a small city in the very enter of the country, just south of the World's Largest Ball of Twine. A life-long Midwesterner, she earned degrees at Kansas State University and Wichita State University, lived for a time in Kansas City, Missouri, and now lives in central Iowa where she raises her daughter and teaches creative writing at Drake University. Her poetry and prose can be found in a variety of journals, including Typo, The Denver Quarterly, The Canary, and Lit. Her first book is forthcoming from Coffee House Press. Phil Cordelli and Brandon Shimoda have been collaborating on various projects since the early 1990s. Their collaborative writing has appeared under the name “The Pines” in such journals as POOL, BlazeVOX, Cannibal, and elsewhere, as well as in the ongoing book series, The Pines. Volume One: Southern California and Volume Two: Ridgefield Connecticut, were both released in 2005, with Volume Three: The Knights of Columbus following in March of 2006. Together and apart they have lived and worked in Acadia National Park, Albany, Asheville, Boston, Bronxville, Brooklyn, Capay, Chatsworth, Cottage Grove, Hopkins Village, Jersey City, Mount Vernon, Oaxaca, Overijse, Pacifica, Pleasantville, Point Arena, Ridgefield, Saratoga Springs, Studio City, Troy, Woodfin, and Yonkers, and help to edit CutBank, Ugly Duckling Presse, and Octopus Magazine. They currently live in Manhattan and Missoula, and at thepines.blogspot.com, respectively. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 04:08:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: listen to:: Garrett Caples 'Ordinary History America' (For John Ashbery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit listen to:: Garrett Caples Ordinary History America (For John Ashbery) from his new experimental poem/music album Surrealism's Bad Rap at www.narrowhouserecordings.com & new ie series new beautiful location i.e. 1821 N. Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21201 410-727-1953 . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:20:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Every Satruday Reading Series in Cleveland, Ohio In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Gallery 324 presents a weekly poetry reading series every Saturday at noon, except July 1, 2006 and a few other holidays as announced. The Featured Readers read, starting with a poem by a poet other than themselves whose work they admire, and then there is an open mic afterwards. Free parking on Saturdays in the Galleria Parking Garage, enter off Lakeside between East 9th and East 12th. There=B4s a large sign with a 3-D curly-cue design that says "Galleria Parking", and a ramp down under the building. Readings will be NOON TO TWO pm, every Saturday, at the Gallery 324, in the Galleria, downtown, with featured readers each week, and an open mic afterwards. Breakfast and Lunch comestibles are available in the Food Court of the Galleria. Every Saturday At Noon Poetry Reading at Gallery 324 in the Galleria downtown 2006 June 10 - Inaugural Reading Jack McGuane, Linda Goodman Robiner, and Ray McNiece June 17 - Robert McDonough June 24 - Shelly Rankins & Geraldine Hardin Washington July 1 - No Reading -- break for inspiration July 8 - Renee Matthews July 15 - Michael Salinger and Larry Smith July 22 - Art Crimes 21 Publication Party and Reading by Any Art Crimes Contributors July 29 - Jack McGuane 79th Birthday Party and Reading, & Chris Franke with Birthday Reading for his father August 5 - Gina Tabasso, and Elise Geither August 12 - Miles Budimir, Ben Rader, and Mark Hersman August 19 - Geoff Landis and Mary Turzillo August 26 - Johanna Fuhrman and Women of Season September 2 - September 9 - September 16 - September 30 - Claire McMahon If you=B4d like to be a featured reader, please email marcus@designerglass.com . This is an all-volunteer endeavor. Bring your books, chapbooks, and cds to sell; the audience has been generous so far, but there is no other payment to the featured readers than the chance to sell their work. The Gallery takes no commission on such sales. Gallery 324 is on the 1st floor of the Galleria (http://www.galleriaaterieview.com), in downtown Cleveland, Ohio, which is a glass enclosed arcade/mall with a 40-storey black facade office tower at one end. The office tower end has an entrance to the arcade/mall on East 12th Street, and the arcade entrance is on East 9th street. There is a side entrance on St Clair between 9th and 12th. There is free wifi access in the arcade/mall, if you have a wifi enabled laptop. The art show on display through June 2006 at Gallery 324 is the Gallery 324 Photography Show, curated by Herb Ascherman and judged by Andrew Boroweic from the University of Akron. Gallery 324 1301 East Ninth Street Cleveland, OH 44114 216.780.1522 marcus@designerglass.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 06:11:57 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Harambee Radio: Jun 22 - 10:00 PM/EST HecOne (welfare poets) & lawrence ytzhak braithwaite (lord Patch) - on Transformations MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harambee Radio: wordcore/author lawrence ytzhak braithwaite & mc & hip hop activist HecOne (welfare poets) hour Thurs. Jun 22 - 10:00 PM/EST on Harambee Radio: Dalani Aamon speaks with wordcore/author lawrence ytzhak braithwaite (lord patch) & mc/activist HecOne (welfare poets) hour Harambee Radio: mc & hip hop activist HecOne (welfare poets) hour & wordcore/author lawrence ytzhak braithwaite 10:00 PM/EST Harambee Radio: mc/activist HecOne (welfare poets) & author/wordcore lawrence ytzhak braithwaite (lord patch) Transformations: Harambee's Visionary founder, Award winning book writer, Dalani Aamon takes you deep into your transformation through word and music. Dalani will always discuss our cradle to grave experiences. This weeks show will focus on a discussion and interview with victoria, british columbia author and wordcore artist lawrence ytzhak braithwaite and mc/activist Hector (hecOne) from the nyc based hip hop crew The Welfare Poets. The show will air Live Thursday evening from 9:00 PM EST/ on June 22, 2006. Checkout: T U R N T A B L E I N T E R R O G A T I O N T E C H N I Q U E S http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php Upstart Radios Mindwalk: 31: Driving to Baghdad: http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/mindwalkthirtyonerevb128.mp3 http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/how_fast_does_light_travel___for_george_scott_3rd_b2.mp3 en fins (clichy sous bois) -- lord patch vs the giver http://www.upstartradio.com/Playlist%20%26%20Links.html and Sak Pase: http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/welfare_poets_-_sak_pase.mp3 DJ Rekha & Welfare Poets at Socialism 2006: http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/71653.html THE BULLET: http://awol.objector.org/mp3/bullet_welfarepoets.mp3 Check out http://www.welfarepoets.com for lyrics, song from new album, pics and video WELFARE POETS on AWOL MAg Site: http://awol.objector.org/artistprofiles/welfarepoets.html Welfare Poets: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=17980309 http://www.harambeeradio.com The Harambee Radio Network Working Together for Progress Harambee....Harambee....Harambee!!!! Keep It Right There at http://www.harambeeradio.com http://www.harambeeradio.com http://www.harambeeradio.com ___ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3\ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ } ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:15:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: feminists with low cut blouses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm sure the organizer larissa shamailo will send a full notice but ijust have to say that i have been given 8 minutes with a group called feminists with low cut blouses on 7-30 at bowery poetry club at 4pm. now im off to marfa and austin . susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:43:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: MiPOesias & the First Official Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Now it's summertime and the livin' is easy ..." (Louis Armstrong, "Summertime") ----> Gina Myers - "Behind Closed Doors" and "House" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/myers_gina.html Michael Farrell - "doco" and "doco" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/farrell_michael.html Tim Botta - "Lemoncello," "Occult Proximity," and "Garland" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/botta_tim.html Mairead Byrne - "Interview With a Wise Old Man" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Interviews/byrne_mairead_interviewwithwiseoldman2006.html Marcus Slease - "Birthday," "Gecko's Lounge," "Seoul Station," "Ssangmun Station, South Korea May 19th 2006," and "Dental Clinic" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/slease_marcus.html Anne Gorrick - "Fear of Taxidermy" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/gorrick_anne.html Adam Fieled and Lars Palm - "Isla Perdida," "this is a song (about how I'm a monkey)," and Virtual Pinball - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/fieled_palm.html\n \n \nScott Glassman - "Returning from You" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/glassman_scott.html \n \nElena Georgiou - "Urban Aubade #1," "Elegy for an Immigrant" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/georgiou_elena.html \n \nJames Grinwis - "Charmland" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/grinwis_james.html \n \n \nYour happy editor and producer, \n \nAmy King and Didi Menendez \n \n \n\n ",0] ); D(["ce"]); //--> http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/fieled_palm.html Scott Glassman - "Returning from You" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/glassman_scott.html Elena Georgiou - "Urban Aubade #1," "Elegy for an Immigrant" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/georgiou_elena.html James Grinwis - "Charmland" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/grinwis_james.html And more great work coming up -- thanks for stopping by! Your happy editor and producer, Amy King and Didi Menendez http://www.mipoesias.com - MiPOesias Magazine http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ - MiPO Reading Series --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:07:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: feminists with low cut blouses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/21/06 8:48:59 AM Central Daylight Time, sumaurer@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > marfa and austin W'assup with Marfa? (That's pussy backwards in Texas.) The reason I ask: I was the sixth of seven editors, the last only a man, who worked for J. Poindexter after my graduation in '94 from U of Houston cwp on an account of a ranch he had renovated there. The account was Mr. Poindexter's own, a fascinating and already-well-written tale about llamas and hand-cut adobe. I did the editing work without ever visiting the ranch. The rooms in the b & b went for $400 per night. He met me sometimes in the kitchen of my little garage apartment, with the full light coming in on four sides, to go over the editing changes; sometimes in his palatial condominium just outside the 610 Loop; and sometimes in his office suite in a downtown skyscraper. The brass plaque outside the suite door read J. B. Poindexter, Corporate Raider. I was acting fanatical about use of the semi-colon, probably due to what C. Michael Curtis had written about the semi-colon, and C. Michael Curtis had liked some of my short stories in the 1980s. My phone rang at 8 a.m., and it would be Mr. Poindexter calling about a particular semi-colon in the 120-page document -- I had made liberal, but correct, use of them throughout the text, like sprinkling it with a minced bunch of Cilantro. How bizarre to hear a message about semi-colons from such a prosperous and busy man first thing in the morning; I had a new boyfriend, myself, and not one who'd pondered the use of the semi-colon much; he thought in songs himself. I earned $30 per hour for doing that good work. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:59:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sidebrow Editors Subject: Sidebrow: Call for Submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sidebrow (www.sidebrow.net) — an online & print journal dedicated to innovation & collaboration — seeks fiction, poetry, art, essay, ephemera, found text, & academia, as well as creative response to current posts and ongoing projects. Submissions to Sidebrow are evaluated both as stand-alone set pieces & as points of departure for establishing multi-authored/multi-genre works. Submissions that re-imagine, depart from, or explore the interstices between posted pieces are highly encouraged. Contributors to date: Julia Bloch, Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite, Mez Breeze, Amina Cain, Jimmy Chen, Kim Chinquee, John Cleary, Catherine Daly, Brett Evans, Brian Evenson, Raymond Farr, Malia Jackson, Carrie-Sinclair Katz, Susanna Kittredge, Richard Kostelanetz, Norman Lock, Scott Malby, Bob Marcacci, L.J. Moore, Greg Mulcahy, Eireene Nealand, Daniel Pendergrass, Kristin Prevallet, Len Shneyder, Nina Shope, Ed Skoog, Jason Snyder, Anna Joy Springer, Chris Stroffolino, Joanne Tracy, Nico Vassilakis, James Wagner, & Derek White. Projects to date: Build: Mother, I: A multi-author, multi-genre exploration of seeds sown by Bataille. (www.sidebrow.net/2006/motheri.php) Build: Post-Hole: A multi-author, multi-genre menagerie of grotesques. (www.sidebrow.net/2006/posthole.php) The Letters Project: Reviving the epistolary novella. (www.sidebrow.net/2006/epistolary.php) Page 24 Project: A chapbook concerning and consisting exclusively of page 24s. (www.sidebrow.net/2006/page24.php) Litopolis San Francisco: Staking a literary claim to the city. (www.sidebrow.net/2006/litopolissf.php) Other projects to be defined by future submissions and response. For more information, and to peruse currently posted works, visit www.sidebrow.net. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:46:27 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Mumia Abu-Jamal's Radio Broadcasts: Julia Wright Tribute MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Julia Wright Tribute http://prisonradio.org/audio/mumia/2006Mumia/June06/6-21-06Tribute.mp3 "When a cause comes along and you know in your bones that it is just, yet refuse to defend it--at that moment you begin to die. And I have never seen so many corpses walking around talking about justice." - Mumia Abu-Jamal see also: "...Well, I had a very eerie feeling of déjà vu. And you'll forgive me, Amy, for being haunted by the first page of Black Boy, my father wrote, when at four years old he felt left out, and they were poor, and he was hungry, and nobody was paying attention to his brother and him. And he wandered listlessly about the room. And he stood before the shimmering embers, fascinated by the quivering coals. And a new idea of a game grew and took root in his mind. Why not throw something into the fire and watch it burn? ... julia wright -- "As France Uses Colonial-Era Law To Impose Curfews, a Look at the Plight of Immigrant Youth in Europe" http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/11/45747.php or http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/09/1538211 audio download: MP3 at 6.3 mebibytes 1: en fins (clichy-sous bois)bmixdistortion dub http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_.mp3 en fins (clichy-sous bois)bmixdistortion dub http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/11/7632.php 2: en fins (clichy-sous bois): dub stereophonical http://images.indymedia.org/imc/seattle/media/2005/11/249798.mp3 3: en fins (clichy sous bois): zone d’injustices ?" dbl the giver dub http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_dbl_da_giver___.mp3 -- Stay Strong \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:45:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandi Homan Subject: Switchback Books Call for Entries for Gatewood Prize MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi everyone, We here at Switchback Books are excited to announce a call for entries for our Gatewood Prize. The Gatewood Prize is Switchback Books' annual competition for a first full-length collection of poems by a woman writing in English between the ages of 18 and 39. It is named after Emma Gatewood, the first woman to thru-hike the Appalachian Trail. Switchback Books editors will select at least 10 finalists and a judge will select the prizewinner, who will be recognized with a cash prize of $1000 and publication by Switchback Books. Manuscripts remain anonymous until a winner is selected. Contest Deadline: September 1, 2006 2006 Judge: Arielle Greenberg For complete contest guidelines, please visit our website at http://www.switchbackbooks.com. We've included an official-type press release below. We hope that you forward this on to anyone who may be interested! Thanks much, and happy writing! Kind regards, Brandi Homan, Hanna Andrews, and Becca Klaver Editors, Switchback Books FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: CONTACT: Contact Person: Brandi Homan Company Name: Switchback Books Telephone Number: 847-712-4870 Email Address: editors@switchbackbooks.com Website Address: www.switchbackbooks.com Switchback Books—Skirting the Status Quo Chicago, Illinois, 6/8/06—Chicago poets Brandi Homan, Hanna Andrews, and Becca Klaver have founded Switchback Books, a new feminist poetry press. Switchback is an independent press dedicated to publishing innovative women’s poetry and celebrating/furthering the diverse, rich landscape of up-and-coming women writers. Switchback’s first book, Talk Shows by Mónica de la Torre, will be published in early 2007. A call for poets: Switchback is also excited to debut an annual contest, The Gatewood Prize, for publication of a first book of poetry by a female between the ages of 18 and 39. We are accepting submissions now, and the contest deadline is September 1, 2006. For more information about Mónica de la Torre, The Gatewood Prize, Switchback’s mission and the women behind Switchback Books, please visit our website, www.switchbackbooks.com, or call 847-712-4870. ### ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:01:15 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: The Pedestal Magazine Review of poetry CD The No-Net World Comments: cc: lauren@maudnewton.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends--review with extensive quotes from my CD from the June 21=20 edition of the fine mag, The Pedestal--your feedback is welcomed. =20 Larissa Shmailo's The No-Net World...reviewed by JoSelle Vanderhooft =20 The No-Net World Larissa Shmailo=20 CD (Spoken Word, Music by Bobby Perfect) Produced by SongCrew Records Eggplant Press ISBN Number: 0935060014 =20 Available at _http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo_=20 (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo)=20 _http://www.tower.com_ (http://www.tower.com) , St Mark's Book Shop NYC, City Lights Books SF, and iTUNES. Reviewer: JoSelle Vanderhooft Listening to poet and translator Larissa Shmailo=E2=80=99s latest spoken wo= rd CD is =20 almost like attending eighteen short plays in the span of forty minutes.=20 Like the best plays, each poem tells a compelling story of human struggle,=20= in=20 which characters fight (and routinely fail) to obtain such basic necessitie= s as=20 food, shelter, liberty, even love. Like the best plays, her poems also=20 crackle with breathtaking language, which in the true tradition of the trag= edies=20 of which she speaks almost sound as if they could be sung (indeed, in some=20 cases they almost are). Shmailo=E2=80=99s expert understanding of the close= =20 relationship between poetry and drama, music and language, and the primal h= uman need to=20 just hear a really, really good story make The No-Net World a truly unique=20 contribution to twenty-first century American poetry, and a CD worth listen= ing=20 to frequently and carefully. Also in the tradition of the world=E2=80=99s best dramas, Shmailo=E2=80=99s= poems are =20 filled with fascinating and all-too-human characters whose stories of loss,= =20 frustration, and displacement resonate with the listener long after the CD= =E2=80=99s end.=20 One of the collection=E2=80=99s most striking poems is =E2=80=9CMadwoman,"=20= a poem about a=20 mentally ill homeless woman, which would find good company in a book of=20 contemporary monologues for actresses. Delivered in Shmailo=E2=80=99s warm,= full Broadway=20 voice and accompanied by Bobby Perfect=E2=80=99s restless guitar chords, it= might just =20 as well be one. "Here I am again walking among these vague and tepid people. They evoke a=20 slight feeling of distaste in me. They smell my pain. They have no idea. I=20= just=20 hold my phone, the cellular phone I use for a disguise and I talk. Talk to=20 the ultimate answering service. I walk and I talk to God. When you died I=20 ripped the electrodes out of my skull and ran away from the land of cables=20= and=20 TV sets, great battles of television were fought here, great battles were=20 lost. SoHo is no different from uptown or downtown, it=E2=80=99s all money=20= and talking=20 and bars, sex in cars, job-job-job, so I went to see the trees. The trees w= ere=20 beautiful, their leaves forming patterns of light on the ground and as the=20 light played on my hair and my cheeks I realized no one ever dies. They jus= t=20 become trees. Even Marilyn Monroe was alive in a leaf. " The poem follows the speaker=E2=80=99s trip to the West Side Highway where=20= she =20 meets homeless people, speaks to God and Jesus, and eventually is =E2=80= =9Ccured" of her=20 illness. She takes pills, has a job and worries about her boyfriend=E2=80= =99s health.=20 But as she informs us, =E2=80=9Cyou can=E2=80=99t really ever take the gift= of madness=20 away." "Once you have been stripped by god of everything=E2=80=94clothing, family,= freedom,=20 senses=E2=80=94you are his for life. And I was stripped, oh yes dear Lord o= f =20 everything=E2=80=94every last thing. God took everything leaving only my so= ul, but I found=20 that was enough." Not only the stuff of great drama, this is also the stuff of truly =20 compassionate and socially aware poetry. Instead of sentimentalizing and=20 infantilizing the mentally ill and the homeless as the television shows Shm= ailo rails=20 against tend to do, Shmailo looks at her subject as an individual, with her= own=20 past, present, and future, as well as her own set of demons to haunt her. B= y=20 treating the nameless Madwoman with such care and respect, Shmailo turns he= r =20 into a modern day Fool, even into King Lear himself when he wails at the=20 storm in Act III, scene iv: "Poor naked wretches, wheresoe'er you are, That bide the pelting of this pitiless storm, How shall your houseless heads and unfed sides, Your loop'd and window'd raggedness, defend you From seasons such as these? O! I have ta'en Too little care of this! Take physic, pomp; Expose thyself to feel what wretches feel, That thou mayst shake the superflux to them, And show the heavens more just." Indeed, the echoes of Shakespeare=E2=80=99s greatest tragedy can be found i= n many of=20 The No-Net World=E2=80=99s poems, including =E2=80=9CLager NYC," =E2=80=9CD= eath at Sea," =E2=80=9CFor Six=20 Months with You," =E2=80=9CHunts Point Counterpoint," and the title poem it= self.=20 Like Shakespeare, Shmailo does not attempt to explain or justify poverty,=20 madness, or the horror of the Holocaust or diseases such as AIDS (a subject= to=20 which Shmailo frequently returns). Instead, suffering is merely something t= o be=20 endured, railed against, even eventually accepted. =20 Shmailo gives acceptance of suffering and death, which is, perhaps, =20 suffering in one of its most brutal forms, beautiful treatment in the short= poem =E2=80=9C Johnny I Love You Don=E2=80=99t Die," one of the many on this CD which coul= d well be a=20 song, despite the lack of musical accompaniment. "Johnny I love you don=E2=80=99t die Johnny I love you don=E2=80=99t die Johnny, do you remember=20 Sitting on the stoop The smell of green lilacs The moon in your hair My battered face Your purple heart 'You said they had no right No right And that no one would ever do that to us =20 again Oh Johnny I love you don=E2=80=99t die Johnny I love you don=E2=80=99t die =E2=80=94AZT=E2=80=94 Johnny I love you don=E2=80=99t die =E2=80=94just need work=E2=80=94 Johnny I love you don=E2=80=99t die =E2=80=94T-cells go=E2=80=94 Johnny I love you don=E2=80=99t die =E2=80=94Up and down=E2=80=94 Johnny I love you don=E2=80=99t die =E2=80=94You=E2=80=99ll be strong=E2=80=94 Johnny I love you don=E2=80=99t die =E2=80=94Soon I swear=E2=80=94 Johnny I love you don=E2=80=99t die" But eventually the speaker realizes that death is inevitable and encourage= s=20 her husband to =E2=80=9Clet go, it=E2=80=99s okay." Shmailo=E2=80=99s willin= gness to portray death=20 as an inevitable part of life, and indeed an inevitable part of love, is a=20 mature, even profound statement to make in a culture which has become=20 pathological in its fear of death. =20 But love does not exist merely as a corollary to death in Shmailo=E2=80=99s= work.=20 Several of her poems celebrate love for its own sake, including =E2=80=9CQu= antum Love"=20 and =E2=80=9CNew Life." To further emphasize the importance love has on her= work,=20 Shmailo also includes her own elegant translations of Alexander Pushkin=E2= =80=99s =E2=80=9CI=20 Loved You Once" and Vladimir Mayakovsky=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CAlready One," tw= o Russian poems=20 which celebrate the passion, scope, and gravitas of love without discoursi= ng=20 into the despair that often accompanies it. If the poems on The No-Net World are beautiful, the CD=E2=80=99s sound qua= lity and=20 production only add to their beauty. The recording is mercifully free from=20 static, interference, and white noise that often plague spoken word CDs. Th= e=20 sound board used to make the recording also appears to have been operated b= y a=20 proficient engineer; Shmailo=E2=80=99s rich, expressive contralto never sou= nds tinny=20 or cavernous. Overall it is a nearly flawless CD that will especially appe= al=20 to patrons and practitioners of the performing arts, and to anyone who=20 simply loves to hear a good story told well. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:47:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: ebay auction to helpout Robert Anton Wilson Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hey mIEKAL, I'm writing w/ a special request. Eddy is raising money directly for Bob, who needs it for health care at this point. There is a listing on ebay right now. It's only for 3 days & I'd really like to see him get as much exposure for this as possible, so I'm emailing you a copy of it. It'd be great if you'd post it to any lists you're on that would be applicable. (At least the dtv group list.) I didn't want to do it "cold" & without talking to you about it.) It's really a worthwhile cause. I can't believe someone who's had as much influence as a writer has to worry about money on his death bed. Damn this place we live in that's supposed to be free and brave. whatever. okay, thanks. Allegra Dead Men Don't Sign Books... UniQue AucTioN From the home and hand of Robert Anton Wilson... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=280000526520&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:11 I'm sitting here with Bob and we have decided to set up this auction. With a touch of theatre absurdo... truth can be stranger than fiction... Bob, who has had some health fnords of late, and is in recovery, has agreed for us to set up this auction to raise some cash for his continued living expenses and care. Hard to believe with so many of his books crawling around the planet, eh? This is our initial experiment others may follow if this is fun. All Proceeds of this Auction Go Directly to Bob. We offer to the RAW & eBay community the following: Winning bidder will receive 2 books from Bob's own collection. Both books are new and are first editions. TSOG: The Thing That Ate the Constitution and other everyday monsters New Falcon 2005 and Reality Is What You Can Get Away With An Illustrated Screenplay 1992 Dell First Edition and Robert Anton Wilson will personally sign, to the winning bidder, one of the two books. (that's right...to you...from bob, oh my fnords!...think.. association copy, think of the RAW biographers of the future who will search you and your heirs out to get the real story about THAT auction...think of your discordian career and legacy...think brothers and sisters, think together and get those trust funds out from under the bed, from those swiss bank accounts, think .........) and (just to prove this isn't some elaborate Erisian hoax) You will also recieve a digital photograph of Bob signing the very book. Yes, you read that right. An unquestionably unique photo of Bob, in his cryptonomic cave, deep below the cliffs of Santa Cruz, signing YOUR book to YOU. YOU!!! THE WINNER! but wait...there's more... Bob will add a mystery item each day of the auction. This could be anything from a holy relic toenail clipping, proof of the existence of God, a dvd, or some other bit of ephemera from the land of Discordia. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=280000526520&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:11 24/7 PROTOMEDIA BREEDING GROUND JOGLARS CROSSMEDIA BROADCAST (collaborative text & media) http://www.joglars.org SPIDERTANGLE International Network of VisPoets http://www.spidertangle.net XEXOXIAL EDITIONS Appropriate Scale Publishing since 1980 http://www.xexoxial.org INTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEOLOGISMS research | reference | ongoing collection http://www.neologisms.us Dreamtime Village Hypermedia Permaculture EcoVillage in Southwest Wisconsin http://www.dreamtimevillage.org "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:11:51 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: pounds line Comments: To: quarterm@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter-- As a person who respects you but is a relative of Pound, I can tell you this-- the line probably is an indirect joke abt prostitution or some form of "go fuck yrself." there's my abhorent 2 cents from direct lineage Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:40:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: from cooper-moore pass this on and tell your friends Comments: To: Acousticlv@aol.com, AdeenaKarasick@cs.com, AGosfield@aol.com, Akpoem2@aol.com, alonech@acedsl.com, Altjazz@aol.com, amirib@aol.com, Amramdavid@aol.com, anansi1@earthlink.net, AnselmBerrigan@aol.com, arlenej2@verizon.net, Barrywal23@aol.com, bdlilrbt@icqmail.com, butchershoppoet@hotmail.com, CarolynMcClairPR@aol.com, CaseyCyr@aol.com, CHASEMANHATTAN1@aol.com, Djmomo17@aol.com, Dsegnini1216@aol.com, flint@artphobia.com, Gfjacq@aol.com, Hooker99@aol.com, jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com, Jeromesala@aol.com, JillSR@aol.com, JoeLobell@cs.com, JohnLHagen@aol.com, kather8@katherinearnoldi.com, Kevtwi@aol.com, krkubert@hotmail.com, LakiVaz@aol.com, Lisevachon@aol.com, Nuyopoman@AOL.COM, Pedevski@aol.com, pom2@pompompress.com, Rabinart@aol.com, Rcmorgan12@aol.com, reggiedw@comcast.net, RichKostelanetz@aol.com, RnRBDN@aol.com, Smutmonke@aol.com, sprygypsy@yahoo.com, SHoltje@aol.com, Sumnirv@aol.com, tcumbie@nyc.rr.com, velasquez@nyc.com, VITORICCI@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Put Music Into Your Life Sing Compose Learn Theory Play an Instrument Build an Instrument Write Lyrics Set Lyrics Perform Cooper-Moore gya@aol.com 646 415 8952 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:49:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hot Whiskey Press Subject: *Beat Roots* by Anne Waldman, Illustrated by George Schneeman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Greetings, Hot Whiskey is proud to announce the release of *Beat Roots* by Anne Waldman. Illustrated by George Schneeman. 7" X 7". 21 pgs. Letterpressed cover. Stab-bound binding. Run of 250 copies. $7.50 Of the 250 copies, 10 were signed and numbered by the author. Signed/numbered copies are going for $15 to the first 10 takers. Beat Roots can be obtained via paypal at www.hotwhiskeyblog.blogspot.com or through mail sent to 1727 Pine St. #1 Boulder, CO 80302. Just make sure to make checks out to one of the editors, Jennifer Rogers or Michael Koshkin, and not Hot Whiskey as we are little and unofficial and enjoying our free non-business account. Also, Hot Whiskey #2 will be out in a week or so. Stay tuned. thanks, Michael and Jen -- Hot Whiskey Press www.hotwhiskeyblog.blogspot.com www.hotwhiskeypress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:20:53 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: after long absence, the thorn in your side arrives back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit and what do you have to say about it I need to mention that the title poem of Rich Jeffrey Newman is one of the best I've read this shitty year of oft plagarized poetic laziness, so buy his book you lack of originality flakers, even in a year where our originality say the first book of flarf, of course published by a primary proginator of American poetry (us, Pavement Saw), has its author release a second book which we are fully supporting and a note will be forthcoming forthwith soon, ther is little in narrative poetry worth repeating beyond myself so I need to say something in the machine guns blaring near my neighborhood in the thirteenth largest city, where money for beaches is what shows status. Good luck from the only-- Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:40:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: MiPOesias & the Next Official Day In-Reply-To: <20060621144352.53934.qmail@web81109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Someone kindly pointed out my blunder from yesterday: "Summertime" was not written by Armstrong, but rather, the lyrics came from the pens of Ira Gershwin and DuBose Heyward, song composed by George Gershwin. I should admit that the writers below played no role in the execution of my error -- I acted alone from my own grassy knoll. So please stop by and imbibe, once again, for the sake of what poets hold dear! amy king wrote: "Now it's summertime and the livin' is easy ..." (Louis Armstrong, "Summertime") ----> Gina Myers - "Behind Closed Doors" and "House" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/myers_gina.html Michael Farrell - "doco" and "doco" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/farrell_michael.html Tim Botta - "Lemoncello," "Occult Proximity," and "Garland" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/botta_tim.html Mairead Byrne - "Interview With a Wise Old Man" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Interviews/byrne_mairead_interviewwithwiseoldman2006.html Marcus Slease - "Birthday," "Gecko's Lounge," "Seoul Station," "Ssangmun Station, South Korea May 19th 2006," and "Dental Clinic" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/slease_marcus.html Anne Gorrick - "Fear of Taxidermy" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/gorrick_anne.html Adam Fieled and Lars Palm - "Isla Perdida," "this is a song (about how I'm a monkey)," and Virtual Pinball - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/fieled_palm.html Scott Glassman - "Returning from You" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/glassman_scott.html Elena Georgiou - "Urban Aubade #1," "Elegy for an Immigrant" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/georgiou_elena.html James Grinwis - "Charmland" - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/grinwis_james.html And more great work coming up -- thanks for stopping by! Your happy editor and producer, Amy King and Didi Menendez http://www.mipoesias.com - MiPOesias Magazine http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com - MiPO Reading Series --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:25:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lou Rowan Subject: reminder, reading tonight at Spoonbill and Sugartown--7:30 PM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hear Joseph McElroy in a rare appearance at this community bookstore, 218 Bedford, in Williamsburg, by the Bedford Ave. stop on the L train. He's joined by Tim Keane and Lou Rowan. McElroy's amazing new story is featured in the new issue of Golden Handcuffs Review, and he will read from that for the first time. A special signed limited edition with artwork by Randy Polumbo also available. The reading is a landmark, and so is the store. Please join us. 718-387-7322 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:40:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Trigilio Organization: http://www.starve.org Subject: COURT GREEN #3 released MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Announcing the release of COURT GREEN #3, featuring Jeanne Marie Beaumont, Mark Bibbins, Shanna Compton, Denise Duhamel, Annie Finch, Dorianne Laux, David Lehman, Timothy Liu, Joyelle McSweeney, Honor Moore, Danielle Pafunda, Wang Ping, D.A. Powell, Donald Revell, Lloyd Schwartz, Aaron Smith, A.E. Stallings, Jean Valentine, G.C. Waldrep, and many others. Our special dossier section in this issue features a collection of bouts-rimés sonnets. COURT GREEN is a poetry journal published annually in association with the English Department at Columbia College Chicago, and is edited by Arielle Greenberg, Tony Trigilio, and David Trinidad. Each issue features a dossier on a special topic or theme. Past dossiers include a section on poetry and film (issue #1) and a tribute to Lorine Niedecker (issue #2). The dossier for issue #4 (Spring 2007) will feature a collection of political poetry. Copies are available for $10 each through the address below. Subscription rate is $25.00 for three issues. Please make checks payable to Columbia College Chicago. COURT GREEN Columbia College Chicago English Department 600 S. Michigan Ave Chicago, IL 60605 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:01:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Word Mechanics Subject: Bill Shute reading in San Antonio Comments: cc: django5722@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable South Texas poet BILL SHUTE will be reading from and speaking about the writing of his recent book from Word Mechanics, TWELVE GATES TO THE CITY: THE LABOURS OF HERCULES IN THE LONE STAR STATE, on Friday 23 June at 7 p.m. at Viva Books, 8407 Broadway (just inside Loop 410) in San Antonio. Already compared with works such as Diane Wakoski's MEDEA, Jean-Luc Godard's KING LEAR, and Graham Greene's MONSIGNOR QUIXOTE, Shute's sequence of 12 poems re-imagines the twelve labours of Hercules in a modern Texas setting. He will also be reading from some of his locally distributed chapbooks, published by Kendra Steiner, including BALANCE, SPIRIT (dedicated to Frank Samperi), SONNETS FOR BILL DOGGETT, and SO LONG (his =22answer=22 to Creeley's HELLO), which will=20 be available at the reading. Admission is free. Wine, cheese, and music will be provided. -------------------------------------------- BILL SHUTE TWELVE GATES TO THE CITY: THE LABOURS OF HERCULES IN THE LONE STAR STATE =248.00 US/=C2=A37.99 UK published 4 April 2006 by Word Mechanics Palm Springs, California ISBN 1-59975-364-2 European distribution by Volcanic Tongue Glasgow, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------- Lee Emerson Word Mechanics (note: I'm located in California, so any questions about the reading should be sent to Bill in Texas, django5722 at yahoo dot com ) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:35:49 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Economic message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs, What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have sit-down (face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a little reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my first day, I clicked on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little church website on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I read the policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly prohibited. Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little better than $2 per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just under $3 for the whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a rather lousy sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers (I drank almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 each. My friend's Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could advertising on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. I usually stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. If I were earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would feel nicely employed. That would equal $240 per day. $250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U of Houston were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those teachers who regarded me as the best writer currently in attendance at the school. Not best I would have thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract hour to teach and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 hours -- we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in order to do a more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very lucky indeed if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages. In Minnesota, where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up from $7.50 ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing and food have gone up dramatically. Teaching here is done on a voluntary basis. It may be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn more than $4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I need to wait to do so until the school year starts. I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has been true for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is leaving me feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone $400,000 in earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that number is only going to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance and family for sustenance. My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going in, based on writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going in. Politically and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat. I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to earn $10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just another one. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:45:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <525.b549a0.31cc3d05@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to earn $10,000 per year" Well, there's honest hard work. And then there's scamming (which actually necessitates a good deal of work, and the hours can be kinda rough). You've had 30 jobs and don't want another one? Great. Join the club and welcome to the real world. PRP ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:16:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <525.b549a0.31cc3d05@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline yes, well, working 246 days a year for $240 (minus weekends, and, hell, i give you 3 weeks off starting) netting $59,040 should make you feel 'content'. On 6/22/06, AMBogle2@aol.com wrote: > > Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs, > > What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have sit-down > (face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a little > reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my first day, > I clicked > on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little church > website > on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I read the > policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly prohibited. > Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little better > than $2 > per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just under $3 > for the > whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a rather lousy > sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers (I > drank > almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 each. My > friend's > Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could > advertising > on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. I > usually > stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. If I > were > earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would feel > nicely > employed. That would equal $240 per day. > > $250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U of > Houston > were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one > undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those teachers who > regarded me as > the best writer currently in attendance at the school. Not best I would > have > thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract hour to > teach > and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 hours > -- > we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in order to do > a > more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very lucky > indeed > if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages. In > Minnesota, > where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up from > $7.50 > ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing and > food > have gone up dramatically. Teaching here is done on a voluntary > basis. It may > be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn more > than > $4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I need > to wait > to do so until the school year starts. > > I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has been > true > for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is leaving me > feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone $400,000 > in > earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that number is > only going > to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance and > family > for sustenance. > > My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in > attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going in, > based on > writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going > in. Politically > and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat. > > I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to earn > $10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just another > one. > > Ann Bogle > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:05:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <525.b549a0.31cc3d05@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann----nice to see people talking about economic realities of trying to survive as a creative writer, or teacher, in today's economy. Maybe if others talk about too---and don't just try to shut the conversation down, with sentiments like "welcome to the real world" or "put up or shut up"---we might actually be able to form some real self-sustaining support network, start our own unaccredited, but far cheaper, school, cut out the middlemen, or something. C On Jun 22, 2006, at 11:35 AM, AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: > Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs, > > What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have > sit-down > (face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a > little > reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my > first day, I clicked > on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little > church website > on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I > read the > policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly > prohibited. > Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little > better than $2 > per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just > under $3 for the > whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a > rather lousy > sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers > (I drank > almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 > each. My friend's > Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could > advertising > on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. > I usually > stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. > If I were > earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would > feel nicely > employed. That would equal $240 per day. > > $250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U > of Houston > were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one > undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those > teachers who regarded me as > the best writer currently in attendance at the school. Not best I > would have > thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract > hour to teach > and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 > hours -- > we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in > order to do a > more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very > lucky indeed > if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages. In > Minnesota, > where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up > from $7.50 > ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing > and food > have gone up dramatically. Teaching here is done on a voluntary > basis. It may > be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn > more than > $4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I > need to wait > to do so until the school year starts. > > I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has > been true > for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is > leaving me > feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone > $400,000 in > earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that > number is only going > to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance > and family > for sustenance. > > My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in > attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going > in, based on > writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going > in. Politically > and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat. > > I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to > earn > $10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just > another one. > > Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:22:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline a thousand pardons, best of luck with your self-sustaining alternative that cuts-out the middlemen, or something On 6/22/06, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > > Ann----nice to see people talking about economic realities of trying > to survive as a creative writer, or teacher, > in today's economy. Maybe if others talk about too---and don't just > try to shut the conversation down, with sentiments like > "welcome to the real world" or "put up or shut up"---we might > actually be able to form some real self-sustaining support network, > start our own unaccredited, but far cheaper, school, cut out the > middlemen, or something. > > C > On Jun 22, 2006, at 11:35 AM, AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: > > > Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs, > > > > What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have > > sit-down > > (face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a > > little > > reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my > > first day, I clicked > > on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little > > church website > > on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I > > read the > > policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly > > prohibited. > > Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little > > better than $2 > > per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just > > under $3 for the > > whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a > > rather lousy > > sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers > > (I drank > > almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 > > each. My friend's > > Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could > > advertising > > on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. > > I usually > > stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. > > If I were > > earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would > > feel nicely > > employed. That would equal $240 per day. > > > > $250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U > > of Houston > > were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one > > undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those > > teachers who regarded me as > > the best writer currently in attendance at the school. Not best I > > would have > > thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract > > hour to teach > > and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 > > hours -- > > we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in > > order to do a > > more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very > > lucky indeed > > if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages. In > > Minnesota, > > where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up > > from $7.50 > > ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing > > and food > > have gone up dramatically. Teaching here is done on a voluntary > > basis. It may > > be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn > > more than > > $4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I > > need to wait > > to do so until the school year starts. > > > > I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has > > been true > > for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is > > leaving me > > feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone > > $400,000 in > > earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that > > number is only going > > to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance > > and family > > for sustenance. > > > > My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in > > attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going > > in, based on > > writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going > > in. Politically > > and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat. > > > > I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to > > earn > > $10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just > > another one. > > > > Ann Bogle > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:32:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Economic message Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Black Mountain? Naropa? I like self-sustaining... unaccredited is a redundancy - we should be think= ing of advancing our art and our relationship to our peers. Think the Acade= my, Plato, without the idealism. Money? Insert a series of H's and A's with exclamation points randomly inte= rspersed. That is my signature. By the way, I'll be showing work in NYC at Tribes Gallery from July 6th thr= ough the 25th. I'm selling several prints, for a lot of money, too, so anyo= ne with money on this list please come.=20 Chris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kevin thurston" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Economic message > Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:22:38 -0400 >=20 >=20 > a thousand pardons, best of luck with your self-sustaining alternative th= at > cuts-out the middlemen, or something >=20 > On 6/22/06, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > > > > Ann----nice to see people talking about economic realities of trying > > to survive as a creative writer, or teacher, > > in today's economy. Maybe if others talk about too---and don't just > > try to shut the conversation down, with sentiments like > > "welcome to the real world" or "put up or shut up"---we might > > actually be able to form some real self-sustaining support network, > > start our own unaccredited, but far cheaper, school, cut out the > > middlemen, or something. > > > > C > > On Jun 22, 2006, at 11:35 AM, AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: > > > > > Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs, > > > > > > What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have > > > sit-down > > > (face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a > > > little > > > reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my > > > first day, I clicked > > > on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little > > > church website > > > on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I > > > read the > > > policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly > > > prohibited. > > > Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little > > > better than $2 > > > per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just > > > under $3 for the > > > whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a > > > rather lousy > > > sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers > > > (I drank > > > almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 > > > each. My friend's > > > Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could > > > advertising > > > on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. > > > I usually > > > stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. > > > If I were > > > earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would > > > feel nicely > > > employed. That would equal $240 per day. > > > > > > $250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U > > > of Houston > > > were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one > > > undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those > > > teachers who regarded me as > > > the best writer currently in attendance at the school. Not best I > > > would have > > > thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract > > > hour to teach > > > and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 > > > hours -- > > > we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in > > > order to do a > > > more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very > > > lucky indeed > > > if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages. In > > > Minnesota, > > > where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up > > > from $7.50 > > > ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing > > > and food > > > have gone up dramatically. Teaching here is done on a voluntary > > > basis. It may > > > be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn > > > more than > > > $4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I > > > need to wait > > > to do so until the school year starts. > > > > > > I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has > > > been true > > > for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is > > > leaving me > > > feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone > > > $400,000 in > > > earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that > > > number is only going > > > to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance > > > and family > > > for sustenance. > > > > > > My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in > > > attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going > > > in, based on > > > writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going > > > in. Politically > > > and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat. > > > > > > I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to > > > earn > > > $10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just > > > another one. > > > > > > Ann Bogle > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:32:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Linden Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed posted offlist and not nearly as interesting as reviving black mountain Ann, (small scale) silversmithing is also a way family of mine have made a living, a slow start but wonderful way to live jen >From: Chris Stroffolino >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Economic message >Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:05:22 -0700 > >Ann----nice to see people talking about economic realities of trying to >survive as a creative writer, or teacher, >in today's economy. Maybe if others talk about too---and don't just try to >shut the conversation down, with sentiments like >"welcome to the real world" or "put up or shut up"---we might actually be >able to form some real self-sustaining support network, start our own >unaccredited, but far cheaper, school, cut out the middlemen, or >something. > >C >On Jun 22, 2006, at 11:35 AM, AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: > >>Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs, >> >>What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have >>sit-down >>(face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a >>little >>reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my first day, >>I clicked >>on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little church >>website >>on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I read >>the >>policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly prohibited. >>Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little >>better than $2 >>per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just under $3 >>for the >>whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a rather >>lousy >>sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers (I >>drank >>almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 each. My >>friend's >>Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could >>advertising >>on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. I >>usually >>stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. If I >>were >>earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would feel >>nicely >>employed. That would equal $240 per day. >> >>$250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U of >>Houston >>were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one >>undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those teachers >>who regarded me as >>the best writer currently in attendance at the school. Not best I would >>have >>thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract hour to >>teach >>and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 hours >>-- >>we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in order to >>do a >>more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very lucky >>indeed >>if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages. In >>Minnesota, >>where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up from >>$7.50 >>ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing and >>food >>have gone up dramatically. Teaching here is done on a voluntary basis. >>It may >>be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn more >>than >>$4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I need >>to wait >>to do so until the school year starts. >> >>I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has been >>true >>for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is leaving me >>feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone $400,000 >>in >>earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that number is >>only going >>to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance and >>family >>for sustenance. >> >>My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in >>attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going in, >>based on >>writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going in. >>Politically >>and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat. >> >>I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to earn >>$10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just another >>one. >> >>Ann Bogle _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:00:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerome Rothenberg Subject: That Dada Strain (Ethel Waters version) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a kind of followup to the Dada show in New York, I've just posted the = following on my ubu.com ethnopoetics web site: Ethel Waters' 1922 = recording of That Da Da Strain. The tune was a standard for early jazz = groups, but over the years it lost its words & became purely = instrumental. For myself the title was incredibly seductive, and = sometime around 1960 I proposed to do an anthology of European Dada = writings & to use That Dada Strain as a title. Nothing came of that = until the Dada section in Poems for the Millennium, but I did use it in = the 1980s for a book of my own work and for a German radio h=F6rspiel = (soundplay) and a staged version by a Living Theater offshoot in the = late 1980s. The URL for the Waters version is = http://www.ubu.com/ethno/soundings/waters.html, or go directly to = http://www.ubu.com/ethno/ for the full lineup. Now that I've finally = tracked it down, words & all, I take it to be a significant if = coincidental part of the history of Dada. =20 Also a second new audio addition to the site consists of two versions of = a "toast," The Signifying Monkey, from African-American oral tradition. = The URL for this one is http://www.ubu.com/ethno/soundings/monkey.html.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:41:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Interactive audio for the Web--recent works MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here are relatively recent interactive audio works for the Web that have the touch. These, I think, are all created since 2004. These pieces explore audio and interface in compelling ways. ja http://vispo.com PIXEL BY PIXEL by Frédéric Durieu, Jean-Jacques Birgé, Kristine Malden (France) http://www.lecielestbleu.com/media/pixelbypixelframe.htm The interactivity here is via moving the mouse and clicking. The visuals are quite good and you exercise subtle but audible influence on the music as you move the mouse and occassionally click. The relation between the audio and the visual is subtle and intriguing. Also, as audio (de)composition, this is rich. More on Durieu and Birgé at http://arteonline.arq.br/Paris/durieuenglish.htm and http://arteonline.arq.br/Paris/birgeenglish.htm (2003 profiles). DIRECTOR PÂTE À SON by Frédéric Durieu and Jean-Jacques Birge (France) http://www.lecielestbleu.com/html/pateason.html An ingenious audio toy. Click the "?" symbol at bottom right so that "Help bubbles" appear when you mouseEnter controls. Pixel by Pixel is no less an audio/visual machine than this piece, but this piece highlights and exposes more overtly the mechanisms that determine the audio composition in this piece. A different type of music than Pixel by Pixel. As with Pixel by Pixel, the tone of the audio and the visuals are congruent. DIRECTOR GRANULAR by Chris Savage (UK) http://www.japanesefreeware.com This is one of the first piece I've seen/heard that gets its audio from a search engine (so does at least one of Jason Freeman's pieces); you type something in and a sound is retrieved that relates to your query. But, more significant than simply being a first in this technological regard, Granular *does something interesting* with the retrieved sound. "Granular Synthesis is the process of creating new sounds from tiny fragments (or 'grains') of other sounds often as short as 10ms in length. These grains then get redistributed and reorganised (often offsetting the pitch of each one) and the result is interesting, unpredictable, evolving sounds with vague characteristics of the original. This is a simple implementation of the system created in Shockwave - grain length and pitch offset can all be modified and it includes a simple modulation section. Sounds can be retrieved via its own internal search engine, so for example typing 'car' should return some kind of car sound and place it in the synthesizer. Patches which users create can be saved on the web to be shared by other users at any time." DIRECTOR WORKS FROM ARTZERO.NET by Vera Sylvia Bighetti (Brazil) MADE TO (UN)ORDER http://www.artzero.net/madetorder A suite of 6 interactive audio pieces. A mixture of the tuneful and the electronic. TECLA1 http://www.artzero.net/grafic/tecla1.htm Click and drag the moving triangles to size them; click the rectangular shapes sort of as a keyboard; mouseover the triangles to trigger their audio. DIRECTOR THREE IN PROGRESS by Katharine Norman (Canada/UK) http://mappae.novamara.com Three poetical/audio interactive works. I like the way these pieces move among poetry and experimental interactive audio. FLASH/JSYN LOOPTRACKS by Conor O'Boyle (Ireland) http://www.looptracks.net What is striking here is the interactive interface. O'Boyle describes it as "an interactive music video". And I think part of the idea of many interactive audio works for the Web is to try to do something alternative to the music video. Though of course there are also other fish to fry in interactive audio, such as innovative music. FLASH PET_00 by Simon Yuill and Laura Baxter (Scottland) http://www.paragon-ensemble.com/commissions/laura_baxter/pet_00 PET_00 is an interactive audio piece done in collaboration between software artist Simon Yuill and composer Laura Baxter. "PET_00 compositions are made from three types of basic elements: particles, attractors and triggers. Particles have audio samples linked to them. They move across the screen and when they cross a trigger area the sound is played. The movement of the particles can be influenced by the attractors." Mouseover the bottom of the window for a menu. The thing of interest here is the constructive/generative interface whereby you construct from "particles, attractors and triggers" an audio composition. This piece was commissioned by Paragon, a Scottish project in contemporary new music. FLASH FOLK SONG FOR THE FIVE POINTS by David Gunn, Alastair Dant, Tom Davis, Victor Gama (USA) http://www.tenement.org/folksongs "Folk Songs for the Five Points is a celebration of cultural diversity and change, using “folk songs” as a metaphor to explore immigration and the formation of identity in New York’s Lower East Side." Click and drag the white circles to explore sounds from New York's Lower East Side. Most interactive audio pieces focus on exploring audio/music and interface. This piece is different. Audio as culture map. Also, the interface is quite well done and presented. FLASH SOUND POEMS by Jörg Piringer (Austria) http://joerg.piringer.net/soundpoems/soundpoems.htm Interactive automata sound poems. FLASH BALLDROPPINGS by Josh Nimoy (USA) http://www.balldroppings.com "BallDroppings .... can be seen as an emergence game. Alternatively this software can be taken as an audio-visual performance instrument. Balls fall from the top of the screen and bounce off the lines you are drawing with the mouse. The balls make a percussive and melodic sound, whose pitch depends on how fast the ball is moving when it hits the line." JSYN/PROCESSING (Java) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:20:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Economic message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ha ha survival buy my new book that'll help me survive ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:26:55 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: because of fraud, Tinfish is giving away.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When we posted our _Broadside_, by Kimo Armitage and Michael Puleloa on our website, asking $1 for it, we were hit with waves of fraudulent orders via credit card (at least that's what the credit card people told us). So we've taken it off sale and are now giving it away. It's a marvelous collaboration in Hawaiian Creole English (otherwise known as "pidgin"). See www.tinfishpress.com for details. Hit the link to "free stuff." Then wander around a bit. We also have copies of our new issue, Tinfish 16 / trout 13, done in collaboration with New Zealand's fine on-line poetry journal. And much much more. Please support us with a purchase. Tinfish has a wonderful line-up of experimental writing from the Pacific for this coming year, but we need support now in order to publish then. But please let me know via email, because I'm going to be away most of the summer. I will forward your emails to my erstwhile summer assistant! aloha, Susan Susan M. Schultz Editor Tinfish Press ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:50:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Re: That Dada Strain (Ethel Waters version) In-Reply-To: <003d01c69647$37d92560$7bf4b546@yourw04gtxld67> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry man, that's a day's work. have listened to all w rapt, I dunno, stupefaction, or blank amaze, or something. thanks! best, Tenney > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group=20 > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jerome Rothenberg > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:00 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: That Dada Strain (Ethel Waters version) >=20 >=20 > As a kind of followup to the Dada show in New York, I've just=20 > posted the following on my ubu.com ethnopoetics web site:=20 > Ethel Waters' 1922 recording of That Da Da Strain. The tune=20 > was a standard for early jazz groups, but over the years it=20 > lost its words & became purely instrumental. For myself the=20 > title was incredibly seductive, and sometime around 1960 I=20 > proposed to do an anthology of European Dada writings & to=20 > use That Dada Strain as a title. Nothing came of that until=20 > the Dada section in Poems for the Millennium, but I did use=20 > it in the 1980s for a book of my own work and for a German=20 > radio h=F6rspiel (soundplay) and a staged version by a Living=20 > Theater offshoot in the late 1980s. The URL for the Waters=20 > version is http://www.ubu.com/ethno/soundings/waters.html, or=20 > go directly to http://www.ubu.com/ethno/ for the full lineup.=20 > Now that I've finally tracked it down, words & all, I take=20 > it to be a significant if coincidental part of the history of Dada. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Also a second new audio addition to the site consists of two=20 > versions of a "toast," The Signifying Monkey, from=20 > African-American oral tradition. The URL for this one is=20 > http://www.ubu.com/ethno/soundings/monkey.html.=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:15:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Mary Kite and Elena Karina Byrne to Feature at New Poetry Venue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact Eric Howard at 323.662.4999 or 213.896.6456 for more information. Poets Mary Kite and Elena Karina Byrne to Feature at New Poetry Venue Called Wednesday Cabaret On Wednesday, July 12, at 9. p.m., poets Mary Kite and Elena Karina Byrne will be the featured readers at a new poetry venue, the Wednesday Cabaret at El Cid Restaurant in Silver Lake. Mary Kite's most recent literary collaborations are Fleuve Flaneur (Mary Kite, Anne Waldman--Smokeproof Press, 2004) and Spilled Beans: A Conversation (Kenward Elmslie & Mary Kite, with drawings by Joe Brainard--Skanky Possum Press). Her work also has been featured in CHAIN, Rain Taxi, Square One, The Poetry Project Newsletter, Poems From Penny Lane (Farfalla press/McMillan & Parrish) and New York City's Museum of Modern Art. She has produced and directed events such as: Paul Bowles: A Retrospective; Tyger! Tyger! A William Blake Multimedia Festival; and Surrealist! A Jean Cocteau Multimedia Festival. Elena Karina Byrne is a teacher, editor, visual artist, Poetry Moderator and Consultant for the LA Times Festival of Books, and former 12 yr. Regional Director of the Poetry Society of America. She is the Ruskin Art Club's Literary Programs Director. She also programs events for USC, the J. Paul Getty Center and MOCA. She is working with Red Car Studios on a poetry/film project. Recent publications include Best American Poetry 2005, TriQuarterly, APR, Paris Review, Yale Review, Verse, Volt,Poetry, Nimrod, Chelsea, Prairie Schooner and The Anthology of Magazine Verse & Yearbook of American Poetry. THE FLAMMABLE BIRD, is available from Zoo Press. She just completed two others, MASQUE and Voyuer Hour; a collection of essays, POETRY AND INSIGNIFICANCE, is in progress. El Cid is located at 4212 West Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA, 90029, (323) 668 0318. Its Web address is http://www.elcidla.com/ . Wednesday Cabaret is curated by Wendy Grosskopf, Eric Howard, Teka-Lark Lo, and Juan Lopez on the second Wednesday of every month. For more information on the Wedenesday Cabaret, visit http://www.tetrameter.com/wednesdaycabaret.htm. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/yqIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CobaltPoets/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: CobaltPoets-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:36:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Economic message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear AMBogle2@aol.com If I understand this request, you are asking me to sanction and suggest = ways you can scam to keep from working in order to support yourself = while you write. I can't do that.=20 There is only one way to make a living 'from' writing, and that is to = write stuff that sells so that the stuff you have written supports your = bad habit of writing instead of being a productive member of society and = doing important stuff like working for a living.=20 Given that your writing isn't selling for enough to do that, means you = have little choice except to work for a living while you indulge = yourself in your bad habit. =20 I have some friends who are ski-bums. They cross the globe seeking the = perfect downhill moment; they all know, however, they can't earn a = living (e.g. support themselves) from slalom & moguls. They pay the = rent and buy their food from the money they earn doing other stuff: = waiting tables, changing oil on other people's cars, painting walls puce = because some bouffant blonde wants puce walls, being go-fers for all = walks of business people. But they don't want a different life...they = live to ski.=20 I have some other friends who are wannabe musicians. They too cross the = country seeking the perfect gig. But for them, the gig isn't cash, it's = a place they can explode into their perfect (their words, not mine) = orchestrations...harmonies and the cacophony of melding instruments. = Most of these friends are salt of the earth folks. They work in places = like Safeway or Wall-Mart in order to sustain themselves between cash = from performing. None however wants to face the reality that they will = never be James Taylor, or Eric Clampton...despite the fact that facing = that reality would simplify their lives.=20 I write every day; I have written every day since I was a sixth grade = student...I wrote when I was a student; I wrote when I was a teacher; I = wrote when I worked in industry; I write now. None of that effort = supports me...none of that writing pays the bills.=20 Why is that? Simply because I am neither a Hemmingway nor a = Frost...though I did aspire to equal both in my youth.=20 And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & teachers = may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know this: fewer = than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," write and make an = adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us do it because we can't = stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, wash windows, and peel potatoes = to fill in the incidental stuff like food and lodging. =20 So, the best advice I can give you is this: Write. Keep writing. = Work...keep working. And until your writing begins paying the bills, = don't confuse the two...writing, from working for a living. They are = in all probability different activities, both essential to your future.=20 Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:35 AM Subject: Economic message Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs, What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have = sit-down=20 (face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a = little=20 reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my first = day, I clicked=20 on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little church = website=20 on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I read = the=20 policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly = prohibited. =20 Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little = better than $2=20 per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just under = $3 for the=20 whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a rather = lousy=20 sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers (I = drank=20 almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 each. = My friend's=20 Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could = advertising=20 on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. I = usually=20 stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. If = I were=20 earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would = feel nicely=20 employed. That would equal $240 per day. $250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U of = Houston=20 were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one=20 undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those teachers = who regarded me as=20 the best writer currently in attendance at the school. Not best I = would have=20 thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract hour = to teach=20 and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 = hours --=20 we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in order = to do a=20 more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very = lucky indeed=20 if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages. In = Minnesota,=20 where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up from = $7.50=20 ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing and = food=20 have gone up dramatically. Teaching here is done on a voluntary = basis. It may=20 be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn = more than=20 $4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I = need to wait=20 to do so until the school year starts. I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has = been true=20 for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is leaving = me=20 feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone = $400,000 in=20 earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that number = is only going=20 to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance and = family=20 for sustenance. My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in = attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going in, = based on=20 writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going in. = Politically=20 and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat. I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to = earn=20 $10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just = another one. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:35:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Nelson Subject: where we create newly entered MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The where we create project has been updated...explore....and even submit! goto and read everything at this the url: http://www.newformsreview.com/wherewecreate/ Then submit your pictures and text to: wherewecreate@gmail.com details (cause I'm too persistant for anyones good) 1. a roughly 300 by 300 pixels or around there photo (S) of where you work, where you create, 2. some text about the place where you work, anything really, but hopefully something descriptive, interesting. 3. your details, name, location, and a few urls. cheers, Jason --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:47:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: A question MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wonder if this has happened to anyone else: Yesterday, I was, just for = the hell of it, googling the title of my new book of poetry, The Silence Of = Men, and I discovered a site on which someone--I don't know who--had = translated the title poem of the book into a language I do not recognize and posted = it to a website that seems to be an international collection of poetry in translation. This person did not take the poem from the book itself, but rather, complete with the author's photo I had used, from an online = literary journal that had published it a couple of years ago. No one ever = contacted me about this and, as far as I know, no one ever contacted the editor of = the literary magazine either. On the one hand, I am quite flattered; on the other, it's a little disturbing to me that someone would publish the translation without even contacting me. I am curious what other people's reactions are. Also, I am hoping someone can tell me what the language = of the translation is and, if it=92s not too much trouble, where on the = website I can find the email of the person who translated it so that I can contact = him or her. I am, of course, also curious to know if the translation is any good. =20 Here's the translation, which you can find at http://www.hetprieeltje.net/oogvanderoos/gednewman.html:=20 =20 DE STILTE VAN MANNEN =20 Een man waarvan ik nooit eerder had gedroomd wandelt mijn appartement binnen en neemt plaats in de groene fauteuil waarin ik altijd zit om te schrijven. Hij houdt in zijn linker hand een grote stijve penis vast die hij stilletjes neerzet op de vloer. De fallus begint te walsen op muziek die ik niet kan horen. Met zijn scrotum, testikels en benen afgesneden tot aan de knie=EBn. wil ik weten waarom dit misvormd manswezen naar mij werd gebracht. Ik kijk op maar mijn gast is verdwenen. Zijn orgaan, schokkend met korte spasmen zoals een hoestende oude man, spreidt zich uit in een plas van dun bloed. De stilte tussen ons is de stilte van mannen. =20 (The silence of men) =20 Bron: The Pedestal Magazine =20 (geplaatst op 25-04-2005) =20 ************************************* =20 Here's the original: =20 The Silence Of Men A man I=92ve never dreamed before walks into my apartment and sits in the green chair where I do my writing. He carries in his left hand a large erect penis which he places silently on the floor. The phallus begins to waltz to music I cannot hear, its scrotum a skirt; its testicles, legs cut off at the knees. I want to know why this disfigured manhood has been brought to me. I look up, but my guest is gone. His organ, deflating in short spasms like an old man coughing, spreads itself in a pool of shallow blood. The silence between us is the silence of men. =20 Thanks-- =20 Rich Newman=20 www.richardjnewman.com =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:12:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: A question In-Reply-To: <000d01c696cb$9b0bd810$6501a8c0@YOUR6DDD04B03A> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The language is Flemish. (Belgium has two languages--Wallon French and Flemish) On the Home page is a place to "Mail here" to write to the site. >From: Richard Jeffrey Newman >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: A question >Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:47:43 -0400 > >I wonder if this has happened to anyone else: Yesterday, I was, just for >the >hell of it, googling the title of my new book of poetry, The Silence Of >Men, >and I discovered a site on which someone--I don't know who--had translated >the title poem of the book into a language I do not recognize and posted it >to a website that seems to be an international collection of poetry in >translation. This person did not take the poem from the book itself, but >rather, complete with the author's photo I had used, from an online >literary >journal that had published it a couple of years ago. No one ever contacted >me about this and, as far as I know, no one ever contacted the editor of >the >literary magazine either. On the one hand, I am quite flattered; on the >other, it's a little disturbing to me that someone would publish the >translation without even contacting me. I am curious what other people's >reactions are. Also, I am hoping someone can tell me what the language of >the translation is and, if it’s not too much trouble, where on the website >I >can find the email of the person who translated it so that I can contact >him >or her. I am, of course, also curious to know if the translation is any >good. > >Here's the translation, which you can find at >http://www.hetprieeltje.net/oogvanderoos/gednewman.html: > >DE STILTE VAN MANNEN > >Een man waarvan ik nooit eerder had gedroomd wandelt >mijn appartement binnen en neemt plaats in de groene >fauteuil waarin ik altijd zit om te schrijven. Hij houdt >in zijn linker hand een grote stijve penis vast >die hij stilletjes neerzet op de vloer. >De fallus begint te walsen op muziek >die ik niet kan horen. Met zijn scrotum, >testikels en benen afgesneden tot aan de knieën. >wil ik weten waarom dit misvormd >manswezen naar mij werd gebracht. Ik kijk op >maar mijn gast is verdwenen. Zijn orgaan, schokkend >met korte spasmen zoals een hoestende oude man, >spreidt zich uit in een plas van dun bloed. >De stilte tussen ons is de stilte van mannen. > >(The silence of men) > >Bron: The Pedestal Magazine > >(geplaatst op 25-04-2005) > >************************************* > >Here's the original: > >The Silence Of Men > > >A man I’ve never dreamed before walks >into my apartment and sits in the green >chair where I do my writing. He carries >in his left hand a large erect penis >which he places silently on the floor. >The phallus begins to waltz to music >I cannot hear, its scrotum a skirt; >its testicles, legs cut off at the knees. >I want to know why this disfigured >manhood has been brought to me. I look up, >but my guest is gone. His organ, deflating >in short spasms like an old man coughing, >spreads itself in a pool of shallow blood. >The silence between us is the silence of men. > >Thanks-- > >Rich Newman >www.richardjnewman.com > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:21:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Where We Create MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.newformsreview.com/wherewecreate/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:53:49 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: follow up on last post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Since I have rec'd multiple backchannels about the book I mentioned in the last post the title of the book is The Silence Of Men by Richard Newman published by CavanKerry Press--www.cavankerrypress.com--and that it can be purchased from the distributor, University Presses of New England, at www.upne.com. Samples from the book are on www.richardjnewman.com. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:58:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: That Dada Strain (Ethel Waters version) In-Reply-To: <001201c69680$8cfd5230$6401a8c0@Tenney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline The composer of the lyrics, anagrammatically, is none other than AIM IMAM EDEN, the subversive early 20C Anarcho-Absurdist group based in Morocco. On 6/22/06, Tenney Nathanson wrote: > Jerry > > man, that's a day's work. have listened to all w rapt, I dunno, > stupefaction, or blank amaze, or something. thanks! > > best, > > Tenney > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jerome Rothenberg > > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:00 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: That Dada Strain (Ethel Waters version) > > > > > > As a kind of followup to the Dada show in New York, I've just > > posted the following on my ubu.com ethnopoetics web site: > > Ethel Waters' 1922 recording of That Da Da Strain. The tune > > was a standard for early jazz groups, but over the years it > > lost its words & became purely instrumental. For myself the > > title was incredibly seductive, and sometime around 1960 I > > proposed to do an anthology of European Dada writings & to > > use That Dada Strain as a title. Nothing came of that until > > the Dada section in Poems for the Millennium, but I did use > > it in the 1980s for a book of my own work and for a German > > radio h=F6rspiel (soundplay) and a staged version by a Living > > Theater offshoot in the late 1980s. The URL for the Waters > > version is http://www.ubu.com/ethno/soundings/waters.html, or > > go directly to http://www.ubu.com/ethno/ for the full lineup. > > Now that I've finally tracked it down, words & all, I take > > it to be a significant if coincidental part of the history of Dada. > > > > > > > > Also a second new audio addition to the site consists of two > > versions of a "toast," The Signifying Monkey, from > > African-American oral tradition. The URL for this one is > > http://www.ubu.com/ethno/soundings/monkey.html. > > > --=20 http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:03:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Nicely put, Alexander. Good to know that there are people out there who can make a clear, clean, positive rebuttal, without having to resort to letting everyone know how much they want to puke. On 6/23/06, alexander saliby wrote: > Dear AMBogle2@aol.com > > If I understand this request, you are asking me to sanction and suggest ways you can scam to keep from working in order to support yourself while you write. I can't do that. > So, the best advice I can give you is this: Write. Keep writing. Work...keep working. And until your writing begins paying the bills, don't confuse the two...writing, from working for a living. They are in all probability different activities, both essential to your future. > Alex ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:18:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: A question In-Reply-To: <000d01c696cb$9b0bd810$6501a8c0@YOUR6DDD04B03A> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Well, Pedestal Magazine has published more than half a dozen of my "found poems" without telling me they're going to or that they did. Does that count? Marcus On 23 Jun 2006 at 9:47, Richard Jeffrey Newman wrote: > I wonder if this has happened to anyone else: Yesterday, I was, just > for the > hell of it, googling the title of my new book of poetry, The Silence > Of Men, > and I discovered a site on which someone--I don't know who--had > translated > the title poem of the book into a language I do not recognize and > posted it > to a website that seems to be an international collection of poetry > in > translation. This person did not take the poem from the book itself, > but > rather, complete with the author's photo I had used, from an online > literary > journal that had published it a couple of years ago. No one ever > contacted > me about this and, as far as I know, no one ever contacted the > editor of the > literary magazine either. On the one hand, I am quite flattered; on > the > other, it's a little disturbing to me that someone would publish > the > translation without even contacting me. I am curious what other > people's > reactions are. Also, I am hoping someone can tell me what the > language of > the translation is and, if it=92s not too much trouble, where on the > website I > can find the email of the person who translated it so that I can > contact him > or her. I am, of course, also curious to know if the translation is > any > good. > > Here's the translation, which you can find at > http://www.hetprieeltje.net/oogvanderoos/gednewman.html: > > DE STILTE VAN MANNEN > > Een man waarvan ik nooit eerder had gedroomd wandelt > mijn appartement binnen en neemt plaats in de groene > fauteuil waarin ik altijd zit om te schrijven. Hij houdt > in zijn linker hand een grote stijve penis vast > die hij stilletjes neerzet op de vloer. > De fallus begint te walsen op muziek > die ik niet kan horen. Met zijn scrotum, > testikels en benen afgesneden tot aan de knie=EBn. > wil ik weten waarom dit misvormd > manswezen naar mij werd gebracht. Ik kijk op > maar mijn gast is verdwenen. Zijn orgaan, schokkend > met korte spasmen zoals een hoestende oude man, > spreidt zich uit in een plas van dun bloed. > De stilte tussen ons is de stilte van mannen. > > (The silence of men) > > Bron: The Pedestal Magazine > > (geplaatst op 25-04-2005) > > ************************************* > > Here's the original: > > The Silence Of Men > > > A man I=92ve never dreamed before walks > into my apartment and sits in the green > chair where I do my writing. He carries > in his left hand a large erect penis > which he places silently on the floor. > The phallus begins to waltz to music > I cannot hear, its scrotum a skirt; > its testicles, legs cut off at the knees. > I want to know why this disfigured > manhood has been brought to me. I look up, > but my guest is gone. His organ, deflating > in short spasms like an old man coughing, > spreads itself in a pool of shallow blood. > The silence between us is the silence of men. > > Thanks-- > > Rich Newman > www.richardjnewman.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:19:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: A question In-Reply-To: <000d01c696cb$9b0bd810$6501a8c0@YOUR6DDD04B03A> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Go with the flattery and forget the disturbance, RJ. Water off your back. "The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." --Casey Stengel Halvard Johnson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jun 23, 2006, at 8:47 AM, Richard Jeffrey Newman wrote: > I wonder if this has happened to anyone else: Yesterday, I was, =20 > just for the > hell of it, googling the title of my new book of poetry, The =20 > Silence Of Men, > and I discovered a site on which someone--I don't know who--had =20 > translated > the title poem of the book into a language I do not recognize and =20 > posted it > to a website that seems to be an international collection of poetry in > translation. This person did not take the poem from the book =20 > itself, but > rather, complete with the author's photo I had used, from an online =20= > literary > journal that had published it a couple of years ago. No one ever =20 > contacted > me about this and, as far as I know, no one ever contacted the =20 > editor of the > literary magazine either. On the one hand, I am quite flattered; on =20= > the > other, it's a little disturbing to me that someone would publish the > translation without even contacting me. I am curious what other =20 > people's > reactions are. Also, I am hoping someone can tell me what the =20 > language of > the translation is and, if it=92s not too much trouble, where on the =20= > website I > can find the email of the person who translated it so that I can =20 > contact him > or her. I am, of course, also curious to know if the translation is =20= > any > good. > > Here's the translation, which you can find at > http://www.hetprieeltje.net/oogvanderoos/gednewman.html: > > DE STILTE VAN MANNEN > > Een man waarvan ik nooit eerder had gedroomd wandelt > mijn appartement binnen en neemt plaats in de groene > fauteuil waarin ik altijd zit om te schrijven. Hij houdt > in zijn linker hand een grote stijve penis vast > die hij stilletjes neerzet op de vloer. > De fallus begint te walsen op muziek > die ik niet kan horen. Met zijn scrotum, > testikels en benen afgesneden tot aan de knie=EBn. > wil ik weten waarom dit misvormd > manswezen naar mij werd gebracht. Ik kijk op > maar mijn gast is verdwenen. Zijn orgaan, schokkend > met korte spasmen zoals een hoestende oude man, > spreidt zich uit in een plas van dun bloed. > De stilte tussen ons is de stilte van mannen. > > (The silence of men) > > Bron: The Pedestal Magazine > > (geplaatst op 25-04-2005) > > ************************************* > > Here's the original: > > The Silence Of Men > > > A man I=92ve never dreamed before walks > into my apartment and sits in the green > chair where I do my writing. He carries > in his left hand a large erect penis > which he places silently on the floor. > The phallus begins to waltz to music > I cannot hear, its scrotum a skirt; > its testicles, legs cut off at the knees. > I want to know why this disfigured > manhood has been brought to me. I look up, > but my guest is gone. His organ, deflating > in short spasms like an old man coughing, > spreads itself in a pool of shallow blood. > The silence between us is the silence of men. > > Thanks-- > > Rich Newman > www.richardjnewman.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:22:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Bredie Subject: M=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3nica?= de la Torre and Kristin Prevellet @ McNally Robinson Books NYC, this Wednesday, 7PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Poetics People, As group play is giving way to direct elimination over in Germany, we at the Vacation House Reading Series are also getting serious. This coming Wednesday, 28 June 2006, at 7pm we are featuring two incredible poet/translator/critics who will knock that false consciousness right out of your skull. The reading will be conveniently held at McNally Robinson Books NYC , 50 Prince Street (b/t Lafayette and Mulberry),so you can pick up some light beach reading afterwords to help you recover. Mónica de la Torre is co-author of the artist book Appendices, Illustrations & Notes. She translated a volume of selected poems by Gerardo Deniz published by Lost Roads and, with Michael Wiegers, co-edited Reversible Monuments: Contemporary Mexican Poetry. Her first collection of poetry, Talk Shows, is forthcoming from Switchback Books early next year. Kristin Prevallet is a poet, essayist, and translator; she is the author of Scratch Sides: Poetry, Documentation, and Image-text Projects (Skanky Possum, 2003) and SHADOW EVIDENCE INTELLIGENCE (Factory School, 2006). She received a 2004 PEN translation fund award for her translations of Sony Labou Tansi. She lives in Brooklyn. See you all there Cheers N vacationhouse.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:13:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <750c78460606230803y1e99d0fdo174a023cd5faaf2c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had no choice but to separate writing from earning a living. As a graduate school dropout, I couldn't teach in a college. By default I ended up in the social services. Eventually I landed in a job where the workload was ridiculously imbalanced and nobody cared if the job got done as long as nothing hit the newspapers. I found ways to write on the job. After work, I got the rest of the time I needed by choosing foods for dinner that didn't taste bad cold, then wrote during dinner. I learned early on that if I had a normal dinner, I'd turn on the tube afterward and forget about writing. So I did what worked for me and retired on a half-pay pension at 55, which now gives me writing time and the pleasure of a warm meal every weeknight. I'm not rich, but I do OK. But the job, while supporting the writing, didn't give me the time to do the networking necessary. So I didn't have time to develop any kind of readership until I retired 5 years ago. (Now, if only I could get the readers to buy my books...) Basically, we're in this because of what writing gives us. While it would have been nice to support myself in a related field, I had to make a distinction: the day job subsidized what I do and I had to be resourceful enough to make as much writing time as I could. Work sucked and so did the cold meals, but not writing would have sucked more. And now I feel very lucky. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Coffey Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 11:04 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Economic message Nicely put, Alexander. Good to know that there are people out there who can make a clear, clean, positive rebuttal, without having to resort to letting everyone know how much they want to puke. On 6/23/06, alexander saliby wrote: > Dear AMBogle2@aol.com > > If I understand this request, you are asking me to sanction and suggest ways you can scam to keep from working in order to support yourself while you write. I can't do that. > So, the best advice I can give you is this: Write. Keep writing. Work...keep working. And until your writing begins paying the bills, don't confuse the two...writing, from working for a living. They are in all probability different activities, both essential to your future. > Alex ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:28:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed i just wanted to chime in with a resounding "damn straight." and also to say forget about the delusion of writing for a living. that dream is something that i think should be quashed altogether, mostly because if you do manage to do it, most likely you're doing all sorts of obnoxious garbage like writing ad copy and generally behaving like neil pollack. write because you want to be read, and you'll be okay. maybe every once in a while someone will give you a check for something you've written, and that will be a nice supplement to your real job, but it won't be your bread and butter. art doesn't do well in mass market capitalism. particularly art that pushes against things like the tastes of the masses who make up the market. and generally speaking, things like fiction and poetry don't have enough of a niche with the kind of disposable cash to act as writing patrons. Sure, there are some colleges that can do it by giving out professorships to writers, but that's a problem too because the more professorships there are, the more creative writing programs there are churning out more mediocre MFAs. So yeah, do it because you like doing it. If you want to make money, go get an MBA. They're easy to get. You can do it on the internet in four to six weeks, according to several pieces of spam i recieved this morning. On Fri, 23 Jun 2006, alexander saliby wrote: > Dear AMBogle2@aol.com > > If I understand this request, you are asking me to sanction and suggest ways you can scam to keep from working in order to support yourself while you write. I can't do that. > > There is only one way to make a living 'from' writing, and that is to write stuff that sells so that the stuff you have written supports your bad habit of writing instead of being a productive member of society and doing important stuff like working for a living. > > Given that your writing isn't selling for enough to do that, means you have little choice except to work for a living while you indulge yourself in your bad habit. > > I have some friends who are ski-bums. They cross the globe seeking the perfect downhill moment; they all know, however, they can't earn a living (e.g. support themselves) from slalom & moguls. They pay the rent and buy their food from the money they earn doing other stuff: waiting tables, changing oil on other people's cars, painting walls puce because some bouffant blonde wants puce walls, being go-fers for all walks of business people. But they don't want a different life...they live to ski. > > I have some other friends who are wannabe musicians. They too cross the country seeking the perfect gig. But for them, the gig isn't cash, it's a place they can explode into their perfect (their words, not mine) orchestrations...harmonies and the cacophony of melding instruments. Most of these friends are salt of the earth folks. They work in places like Safeway or Wall-Mart in order to sustain themselves between cash from performing. None however wants to face the reality that they will never be James Taylor, or Eric Clampton...despite the fact that facing that reality would simplify their lives. > > I write every day; I have written every day since I was a sixth grade student...I wrote when I was a student; I wrote when I was a teacher; I wrote when I worked in industry; I write now. None of that effort supports me...none of that writing pays the bills. > > Why is that? Simply because I am neither a Hemmingway nor a Frost...though I did aspire to equal both in my youth. > > And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & teachers may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know this: fewer than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," write and make an adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us do it because we can't stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, wash windows, and peel potatoes to fill in the incidental stuff like food and lodging. > > So, the best advice I can give you is this: Write. Keep writing. Work...keep working. And until your writing begins paying the bills, don't confuse the two...writing, from working for a living. They are in all probability different activities, both essential to your future. > Alex > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:35 AM > Subject: Economic message > > > Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs, > > What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have sit-down > (face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a little > reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my first day, I clicked > on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little church website > on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I read the > policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly prohibited. > Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little better than $2 > per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just under $3 for the > whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a rather lousy > sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers (I drank > almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 each. My friend's > Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could advertising > on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. I usually > stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. If I were > earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would feel nicely > employed. That would equal $240 per day. > > $250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U of Houston > were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one > undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those teachers who regarded me as > the best writer currently in attendance at the school. Not best I would have > thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract hour to teach > and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 hours -- > we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in order to do a > more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very lucky indeed > if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages. In Minnesota, > where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up from $7.50 > ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing and food > have gone up dramatically. Teaching here is done on a voluntary basis. It may > be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn more than > $4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I need to wait > to do so until the school year starts. > > I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has been true > for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is leaving me > feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone $400,000 in > earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that number is only going > to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance and family > for sustenance. > > My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in > attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going in, based on > writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going in. Politically > and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat. > > I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to earn > $10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just another one. > > Ann Bogle > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:48:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Harrison Horton Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jason suggested: "write because you want to be read, and you'll be okay. maybe every once in a while someone will give you a check for something you've written, and that will be a nice supplement to your real job, but it won't be your bread and butter." Poetdom is historically filled with examples of poets taking jobs that don't resonate with the idea of poetry, Stevens being a VP in an insurance agency being the most obvious. George Bataille was a librarian. Bill Luoma writes computer code, and Silliman does computer marketing or somesuch. Etc... There's always teaching in China, where you repeat the same one hour lesson 10-14 times a week and get free rent and loads of spare time (I did it for three years). David Harrison Horton unionherald.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:41:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Pataphysica 3: Some Machines of Pataphysics Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , ubuweb@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Pataphysica 3: Some Machines of Pataphysics edited by Cal Clements http://www.lulu.com/content/202163 Description: In this third issue of Pataphysica, we find a host of articles having =20= to do with the maaaaa-chine. Excuse me. The maaaaa-chine. Oh, dear. =20 It happened again. Let me start afresh. These contributions, all of =20 them brilliant, come directly from the field of 'pataphysics. The =20 writers, all of them working 'pataphysicians or 'pataphysicists, =20 include Eric Basso, mIEKAL aND, Benjamin Pryor, Christy Wampole, =20 Brisbane di Milo, Megan Volpert, Heather Wagner, Anthony Enns, =20 Nicholas Lowe, Christopher Fritton, and Alejandro Riberi. Product Details: Printed: 195 pages, 6.00" x 9.00", perfect binding, black and white =20 interior ink Publisher: mNemonic iNk Copyright: =A9 2006 by Cal Clements Standard Copyright License Language: English http://www.lulu.com/content/202163= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:48:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody on this list peel potatoes or wash windows for a living? On Jun 23, 2006, at 2:36 AM, alexander saliby wrote: > > And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & > teachers may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know > this: fewer than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," > write and make an adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us > do it because we can't stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, > wash windows, and peel potatoes to fill in the incidental stuff > like food and lodging. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:10:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <787D5ADF-FC3E-4EDC-9F86-BE85D8C397B8@mwt.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Anybody on this list peel potatoes or wash windows for a living? MieKal: What is the correlation between taking the eyes out of potatoes and washing windows? Well, after last night at Langton Arts in San Francisco, one might say, watching and listening to Brian Kim Steffans and Judith Goldman's "The Wall on Terra" (a play) in the Performance Writing Series. Both terrific. I don't know the economix - I paid $5 for the stamp on my wrist and got extraordinary value. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Currently home of the Tenderly series, A serial work now ending! Oh, not in light of, or in relationship to Mike McGee's flarfull Chinese piece, and all the outfall, I've got a piece on Chinese "particulate matter" in California. > > > On Jun 23, 2006, at 2:36 AM, alexander saliby wrote: >> >> And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & >> teachers may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know >> this: fewer than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," >> write and make an adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us >> do it because we can't stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, >> wash windows, and peel potatoes to fill in the incidental stuff >> like food and lodging. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:15:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <787D5ADF-FC3E-4EDC-9F86-BE85D8C397B8@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I used to wash windows in high rises. It was an easy job and paid really well. On Fri, 23 Jun 2006, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Anybody on this list peel potatoes or wash windows for a living? > > > On Jun 23, 2006, at 2:36 AM, alexander saliby wrote: >> >> And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & teachers may >> have said to you about your skills and abilities, know this: fewer than 1 >> tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," write and make an adequate >> living from the efforts. The rest of us do it because we can't stop. And >> we do stuff like wait tables, wash windows, and peel potatoes to fill in the >> incidental stuff like food and lodging. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:18:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I don't want to say "damn straight." It seems to me that all the writers on this list write because they are, as Creeley used to say, "given to write." They have to, and nothing else works for them. All of us also, clearly, have to have enough money to both keep us alive and to find some time to write. I'm glad Ann Bogle brought this issue up, but I don't have any easy answers for her, because I think each of us finds (or does not find) the mix of work and writing that keeps us going. Some patchwork it together, some take full-time jobs in teaching, some outside of teaching, some work in the nonprofit sector, some work in the corporate sector - we're all over the map. And we do sometimes need and ask for support, and I've only heard her get a little of that here, with more lack of support bordering on dismissal of her concerns -- sort of a "hey girl get tough" attitude. That just strikes me as a little too cold. Ann, I hope you find something that works for you. charles At 09:28 AM 6/23/2006, you wrote: >i just wanted to chime in with a resounding "damn straight." > >and also to say forget about the delusion of writing for a living. that >dream is something that i think should be quashed altogether, mostly >because if you do manage to do it, most likely you're doing all sorts of >obnoxious garbage like writing ad copy and generally behaving like neil >pollack. write because you want to be read, and you'll be okay. maybe >every once in a while someone will give you a check for something you've >written, and that will be a nice supplement to your real job, but it won't >be your bread and butter. > >art doesn't do well in mass market capitalism. particularly art that >pushes against things like the tastes of the masses who make up the >market. and generally speaking, things like fiction and poetry don't have >enough of a niche with the kind of disposable cash to act as writing >patrons. Sure, there are some colleges that can do it by giving out >professorships to writers, but that's a problem too because the more >professorships there are, the more creative writing programs there are >churning out more mediocre MFAs. > >So yeah, do it because you like doing it. If you want to make money, go >get an MBA. They're easy to get. You can do it on the internet in four to >six weeks, according to several pieces of spam i recieved this morning. > >On Fri, 23 Jun 2006, alexander saliby wrote: > >>Dear AMBogle2@aol.com >> >>If I understand this request, you are asking me to sanction and suggest >>ways you can scam to keep from working in order to support yourself while >>you write. I can't do that. >> >>There is only one way to make a living 'from' writing, and that is to >>write stuff that sells so that the stuff you have written supports your >>bad habit of writing instead of being a productive member of society and >>doing important stuff like working for a living. >> >>Given that your writing isn't selling for enough to do that, means you >>have little choice except to work for a living while you indulge yourself >>in your bad habit. >> >>I have some friends who are ski-bums. They cross the globe seeking the >>perfect downhill moment; they all know, however, they can't earn a living >>(e.g. support themselves) from slalom & moguls. They pay the rent and >>buy their food from the money they earn doing other stuff: waiting >>tables, changing oil on other people's cars, painting walls puce because >>some bouffant blonde wants puce walls, being go-fers for all walks of >>business people. But they don't want a different life...they live to ski. >> >>I have some other friends who are wannabe musicians. They too cross the >>country seeking the perfect gig. But for them, the gig isn't cash, it's >>a place they can explode into their perfect (their words, not mine) >>orchestrations...harmonies and the cacophony of melding >>instruments. Most of these friends are salt of the earth folks. They >>work in places like Safeway or Wall-Mart in order to sustain themselves >>between cash from performing. None however wants to face the reality >>that they will never be James Taylor, or Eric Clampton...despite the fact >>that facing that reality would simplify their lives. >> >>I write every day; I have written every day since I was a sixth grade >>student...I wrote when I was a student; I wrote when I was a teacher; I >>wrote when I worked in industry; I write now. None of that effort >>supports me...none of that writing pays the bills. >> >>Why is that? Simply because I am neither a Hemmingway nor a >>Frost...though I did aspire to equal both in my youth. >> >>And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & teachers >>may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know this: fewer >>than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," write and make an >>adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us do it because we can't >>stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, wash windows, and peel potatoes >>to fill in the incidental stuff like food and lodging. >> >>So, the best advice I can give you is this: Write. Keep >>writing. Work...keep working. And until your writing begins paying the >>bills, don't confuse the two...writing, from working for a living. They >>are in all probability different activities, both essential to your future. >>Alex >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:35 AM >> Subject: Economic message >> >> >> Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs, >> >> What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have sit-down >> (face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a little >> reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my first >> day, I clicked >> on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little church >> website >> on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I read the >> policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly prohibited. >> Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little >> better than $2 >> per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just under >> $3 for the >> whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a rather lousy >> sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers (I >> drank >> almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 each. My >> friend's >> Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could >> advertising >> on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. I >> usually >> stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. If I >> were >> earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would >> feel nicely >> employed. That would equal $240 per day. >> >> $250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U of >> Houston >> were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one >> undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those teachers >> who regarded me as >> the best writer currently in attendance at the school. Not best I >> would have >> thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract hour >> to teach >> and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 >> hours -- >> we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in order to >> do a >> more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very lucky >> indeed >> if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages. In >> Minnesota, >> where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up from >> $7.50 >> ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing and food >> have gone up dramatically. Teaching here is done on a voluntary >> basis. It may >> be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn more >> than >> $4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I >> need to wait >> to do so until the school year starts. >> >> I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has been >> true >> for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is leaving me >> feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone $400,000 in >> earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that number >> is only going >> to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance and family >> for sustenance. >> >> My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in >> attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going in, >> based on >> writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going >> in. Politically >> and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat. >> >> I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to earn >> $10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just >> another one. >> >> Ann Bogle > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:01:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060623121109.02d24ee0@mail.theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm glad for the discussion too. As you say, there are no easy answers, and precious few difficult answers. As has been said, few of us will make more than pocket money. It's still worth discussing. It strikes me that most of the suggestions offered so far (and again, I'm glad for all of them), indeed most of the suggestions I see floated about writers' groups in general, are targeted at giving a specific person a greater share of the very limited available funds to writers. Schools, for example, whether accredited or unaccredited, make their money from hopeful future writers, rather than readers. Google Adwords are a little better, for what little money they yield, since they're based on surfing rather than purchases, but unless purchases are finally made, that system will fall apart (or prey on magazine editors who advertise). Rarely do I see any suggestions on how to get more people to read, which is the necessary long view. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org charles alexander wrote: > I don't want to say "damn straight." It seems to me that all the > writers on this list write because they are, as Creeley used to say, > "given to write." They have to, and nothing else works for them. All > of us also, clearly, have to have enough money to both keep us alive > and to find some time to write. I'm glad Ann Bogle brought this issue > up, but I don't have any easy answers for her, because I think each of > us finds (or does not find) the mix of work and writing that keeps us > going. Some patchwork it together, some take full-time jobs in > teaching, some outside of teaching, some work in the nonprofit sector, > some work in the corporate sector - we're all over the map. And we do > sometimes need and ask for support, and I've only heard her get a > little of that here, with more lack of support bordering on dismissal > of her concerns -- sort of a "hey girl get tough" attitude. That just > strikes me as a little too cold. Ann, I hope you find something that > works for you. > > charles > > > At 09:28 AM 6/23/2006, you wrote: >> i just wanted to chime in with a resounding "damn straight." >> >> and also to say forget about the delusion of writing for a living. >> that dream is something that i think should be quashed altogether, >> mostly because if you do manage to do it, most likely you're doing >> all sorts of obnoxious garbage like writing ad copy and generally >> behaving like neil pollack. write because you want to be read, and >> you'll be okay. maybe every once in a while someone will give you a >> check for something you've written, and that will be a nice >> supplement to your real job, but it won't be your bread and butter. >> >> art doesn't do well in mass market capitalism. particularly art that >> pushes against things like the tastes of the masses who make up the >> market. and generally speaking, things like fiction and poetry don't >> have enough of a niche with the kind of disposable cash to act as >> writing patrons. Sure, there are some colleges that can do it by >> giving out professorships to writers, but that's a problem too >> because the more professorships there are, the more creative writing >> programs there are churning out more mediocre MFAs. >> >> So yeah, do it because you like doing it. If you want to make money, >> go get an MBA. They're easy to get. You can do it on the internet in >> four to six weeks, according to several pieces of spam i recieved >> this morning. >> >> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006, alexander saliby wrote: >> >>> Dear AMBogle2@aol.com >>> >>> If I understand this request, you are asking me to sanction and >>> suggest ways you can scam to keep from working in order to support >>> yourself while you write. I can't do that. >>> >>> There is only one way to make a living 'from' writing, and that is >>> to write stuff that sells so that the stuff you have written >>> supports your bad habit of writing instead of being a productive >>> member of society and doing important stuff like working for a living. >>> >>> Given that your writing isn't selling for enough to do that, means >>> you have little choice except to work for a living while you indulge >>> yourself in your bad habit. >>> >>> I have some friends who are ski-bums. They cross the globe seeking >>> the perfect downhill moment; they all know, however, they can't earn >>> a living (e.g. support themselves) from slalom & moguls. They pay >>> the rent and buy their food from the money they earn doing other >>> stuff: waiting tables, changing oil on other people's cars, painting >>> walls puce because some bouffant blonde wants puce walls, being >>> go-fers for all walks of business people. But they don't want a >>> different life...they live to ski. >>> >>> I have some other friends who are wannabe musicians. They too cross >>> the country seeking the perfect gig. But for them, the gig isn't >>> cash, it's a place they can explode into their perfect (their words, >>> not mine) orchestrations...harmonies and the cacophony of melding >>> instruments. Most of these friends are salt of the earth folks. >>> They work in places like Safeway or Wall-Mart in order to sustain >>> themselves between cash from performing. None however wants to face >>> the reality that they will never be James Taylor, or Eric >>> Clampton...despite the fact that facing that reality would simplify >>> their lives. >>> >>> I write every day; I have written every day since I was a sixth >>> grade student...I wrote when I was a student; I wrote when I was a >>> teacher; I wrote when I worked in industry; I write now. None of >>> that effort supports me...none of that writing pays the bills. >>> >>> Why is that? Simply because I am neither a Hemmingway nor a >>> Frost...though I did aspire to equal both in my youth. >>> >>> And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & >>> teachers may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know >>> this: fewer than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," >>> write and make an adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us >>> do it because we can't stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, wash >>> windows, and peel potatoes to fill in the incidental stuff like food >>> and lodging. >>> >>> So, the best advice I can give you is this: Write. Keep writing. >>> Work...keep working. And until your writing begins paying the >>> bills, don't confuse the two...writing, from working for a living. >>> They are in all probability different activities, both essential to >>> your future. >>> Alex >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:35 AM >>> Subject: Economic message >>> >>> >>> Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs, >>> >>> What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have >>> sit-down >>> (face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a >>> little >>> reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my >>> first day, I clicked >>> on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little >>> church website >>> on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I >>> read the >>> policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly >>> prohibited. >>> Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little >>> better than $2 >>> per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just >>> under $3 for the >>> whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a >>> rather lousy >>> sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers >>> (I drank >>> almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 >>> each. My friend's >>> Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could >>> advertising >>> on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. >>> I usually >>> stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. >>> If I were >>> earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would >>> feel nicely >>> employed. That would equal $240 per day. >>> >>> $250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U >>> of Houston >>> were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one >>> undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those >>> teachers who regarded me as >>> the best writer currently in attendance at the school. Not best I >>> would have >>> thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract >>> hour to teach >>> and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 >>> hours -- >>> we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in >>> order to do a >>> more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very >>> lucky indeed >>> if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages. In >>> Minnesota, >>> where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up >>> from $7.50 >>> ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing >>> and food >>> have gone up dramatically. Teaching here is done on a voluntary >>> basis. It may >>> be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn >>> more than >>> $4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I >>> need to wait >>> to do so until the school year starts. >>> >>> I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has >>> been true >>> for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is >>> leaving me >>> feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone >>> $400,000 in >>> earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that >>> number is only going >>> to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance >>> and family >>> for sustenance. >>> >>> My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in >>> attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going >>> in, based on >>> writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going >>> in. Politically >>> and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat. >>> >>> I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to >>> earn >>> $10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just >>> another one. >>> >>> Ann Bogle >> > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:11:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <787D5ADF-FC3E-4EDC-9F86-BE85D8C397B8@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed my back has been broken three times so in their infinite wisdom a few years ago the state put me on SSI by the time you pay the rent and road runner and deduct the weekly bus pass you have abt 6 dollar a day to live on, some months 5 to 6 you are allowed to earn 80.00 a month at a job--80 a month-- so trying to find ways to make a dollar here and there--under the table-- forget abt new books or a new movie at commerical theatres, shows, clothes etc-- good for finding out alll the alternativies and ways to get in free, discounts etc all over the place, know people who are in places to get one in, every form of survival to get by--available around city--things found on streets--etc--cheapest most low tech art supplies-- necessity is the motherfucker of invention-- everyday an education and a continual activity of imagination--creativity-- learn to travel the world and through eons walking the familiar streets and parks--finding new ones-- all that is hidden in plain sight-- a form of imprisonment in which one has to create freedoms-- not making any money just learning how to live with ever less-- in all of this, one becomes ironically "a very skilled worker"! >From: mIEKAL aND >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Economic message >Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:48:40 -0500 > >Anybody on this list peel potatoes or wash windows for a living? > > >On Jun 23, 2006, at 2:36 AM, alexander saliby wrote: >> >>And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & teachers >>may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know this: fewer >>than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," write and make an >>adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us do it because we can't >>stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, wash windows, and peel potatoes >>to fill in the incidental stuff like food and lodging. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:06:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Dickey Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I remind you that To Topos seeks submissions for the forthcoming Poetry and Poverty issue. For more info: http://oregonstate.edu/dept/foreign_lang/totopos/index.html I once had to take a job as a custodian. Working the graveyard shift (that's 11:pm to 7:am for all the white collar necks out there) nearly killed me. I cleaned the anthropolgy building at U of Oregon. After a while I got the hang of it and could finish my work within four hours. I read and wrote poetry for the rest of my shift. All this after having graduated with honors at the top of my class, and having returned from a lengthy residency at the Vermont Studio Ctr., winning awards, publishing poems, etc. I had a glint of light in my eyes of becoming the next (insert noted poet name here). Little did I know the glint was cast by the reflection of fourescent light in the water of the many toilet bowls I scrubbed. I don't know why I write, I don't ask why. I just do. And I'll do the stoop labor to keep food on the table, my library card up to date, and my head filled with poetry. Luckily, I put my writing skills to work and now work as a grant writer/office jockey for OSU, go Beavers! Eric --------------------------------- Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football ’06 - Go with the leader. Start your league today! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:37:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: A question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's happened to me too language looks dutch or flemish ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:28:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Corie Feiner, Gina Myers, and David Applegate @ STAIN Bar in Brooklyn - 7 p.m. In-Reply-To: <1151076169.449c0749e98a0@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ONE WEEK FROM TODAY, Friday, June 30th @ STAIN BAR, BROOKLYN (7 p.m.) Poet and performer, Corie Feiner (nee Herman) delivers her work with intensity, humor, and skill. Called "wonderful" by The New York Times, and "captivating," by Backstage Magazine; she has been featured in The Riverdale Press, the Greenwhich Times, and on WNBC for her extraordinary performances and poetry workshops. In addition to being a cast member of the renowned theatre troupe, Storahtelling, she is the author of the poetry collection, Radishes into Roses, and has been published in numerous literary magazines and anthologies. You can reach her though her web site: www.coriefeiner.com. Gina Myers is originally from Saginaw, MI. She now resides in Brooklyn, NY where she co-edits the tiny with Gabriella Torres. Her chapbook Fear of the Knee Bending Backwards is forthcoming from H_NGM_N, and a chapbook of collaborations with the poet Dustin Williamson, Power Lunch, is also forthcoming. David Applegate is a library clerk. He co-founded Bad Noise Productions in early 2006. Their first production, "Headless, nameless / Death hippie dub EP," a split text in the tradition of 7" hardcore records, will be available from www.badnoiseproductions.com in the very near future. A second production, the mysterious "Grammar Crisis," will appear during the fall of 2006. MiPO Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com Sponsored by MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com Stain Bar serves local New York State beers and wines, AND MiPOesias will provide tiny finger foods in honor of summer. There is also a beautiful backyard with seating for early birds (or folks who choose to skip work). _______________________________ STAIN is a unique arts lounge dedicated to local products and talent. stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L to Grand, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 daily 5 p.m. http://www.stainbar.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:28:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Corie Feiner, Gina Myers, and David Applegate @ STAIN Bar in Brooklyn - 7 p.m. In-Reply-To: <1151076169.449c0749e98a0@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ONE WEEK FROM TODAY, Friday, June 30th @ STAIN BAR, BROOKLYN (7 p.m.) Poet and performer, Corie Feiner (nee Herman) delivers her work with intensity, humor, and skill. Called "wonderful" by The New York Times, and "captivating," by Backstage Magazine; she has been featured in The Riverdale Press, the Greenwhich Times, and on WNBC for her extraordinary performances and poetry workshops. In addition to being a cast member of the renowned theatre troupe, Storahtelling, she is the author of the poetry collection, Radishes into Roses, and has been published in numerous literary magazines and anthologies. You can reach her though her web site: www.coriefeiner.com. Gina Myers is originally from Saginaw, MI. She now resides in Brooklyn, NY where she co-edits the tiny with Gabriella Torres. Her chapbook Fear of the Knee Bending Backwards is forthcoming from H_NGM_N, and a chapbook of collaborations with the poet Dustin Williamson, Power Lunch, is also forthcoming. David Applegate is a library clerk. He co-founded Bad Noise Productions in early 2006. Their first production, "Headless, nameless / Death hippie dub EP," a split text in the tradition of 7" hardcore records, will be available from www.badnoiseproductions.com in the very near future. A second production, the mysterious "Grammar Crisis," will appear during the fall of 2006. MiPO Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com Sponsored by MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com Stain Bar serves local New York State beers and wines, AND MiPOesias will provide tiny finger foods in honor of summer. There is also a beautiful backyard with seating for early birds (or folks who choose to skip work). _______________________________ STAIN is a unique arts lounge dedicated to local products and talent. stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L to Grand, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 daily 5 p.m. http://www.stainbar.com/ --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:36:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Elshtain Subject: New Beard of Bees Chapbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beard of Bees is pleased to announce the publication of our first bi-lingual chapbook, _Last Psalm_ by Romanian poet Constantin Acosmei, translated by Chicago's Gene Tanta. http://www.beardofbees.com/acosmei.html Yours, Eric Elshtain Editor Beard of Bees Press http://www.beardofbees.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:40:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: pre-2004 Interactive audio for the Web MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here are pre-2004 works of interactive audio for the Web that are still up: JIM ANDREWS (Canada) http://vispo.com/vismu An assortment of interactive audio works. DIRECTOR PIANOGRAPHIQUE by Jean-Luc Lamarque (France) http://www.pianographique.com Keyboard controlled interactivity. More on Lamarque at http://arteonline.arq.br/Paris/lamarqueenglish.htm (2003 profile). DIRECTOR JASONFREEMAN.NET (USA) http://www.jasonfreeman.net Actually there are pre-2004 and post-2004 works here of great interest. VARIOUS GLASS ENGINE by IBM (USA) http://www.philipglass.com/glassengine Navigate the music of Phillip Glass by work, year, length, joy, sorrow, intensity, density, and velocity; made by IBM. JAVA IXI SOFTWARE by Thor Magnusson (Iceland) and friends http://www.ixi-software.net/content/software.html A group collaborating on the creation of Shockwave technology and music. DIRECTOR LECIELESTBLEU.COM by Frédéric Durieu (France) http://www.lecielestbleu.com Many fantastic interactive works here, some focussing on audio. DIRECTOR EKPUROSIS by Xavier Pehuet (France) http://www.turbulence.org/Works/hollow Ekpurosis is "universal regeneration"; many visual and auditory movements DIRECTOR JAMES TINDALL (Britain) http://www.atomless.com Links to several Tindall projects such as thesquarerootofminusone and mofidyme. DIRECTOR/FLASH P-SOUP by Mark Napier (USA) Waves of interactive pure tones and colour/shapes. http://potatoland.com/p-soup JAVA CTRALTDEL.ORG by Peter Luining (Netherlands) http://www.ctrlaltdel.org Peter Luining's site of Shockwave interactives; uses short sounds, rectilinear graphics; many fine works. DIRECTOR SOUNDTOYS.NET curated by Stanza (Britain) http://www.soundtoys.net An ongoing anthology of interactive audio works and a collection of writings on sound. See also a profile of Stanza: http://www.turbulence.org/curators/media2/stanza.htm VARIOUS MICHIEL KNAVEN (Netherlands) http://www.michaelmedia.org Tools and interactive audio/visual artworks. DIRECTOR AUDIOGAME.NET by Marc Em (France) http://www.audiogame.net A suite of amusing audio toys. FLASH THE BLONK ORGAN (Netherlands) http://www.jaapblonk.com/Organ/blonk/organpre.html Japp Blonk is a sound poet and writer. DIRECTOR PALL THAYER (Iceland) http://this.is/pallit VARIOUS ERIC LOYER (USA) http://www.marrowmonkey.com Good use of sound for storytelling in 'The Lair of the Marrow Monkey', an interactive narrative about Platonism in the digital. DIRECTOR ELECTRICA by Gundula Markeffsky, Peter Huehlfriedel, Leonard Schaumann (Germany) http://www.electrica.de If you can get this working, this is terrific. Uses the Beatnik plugin. Supplies a link to an installable exe of the plugin, and requires Netscape 4. I installed the plugin and installed Netscape 4.72 but couldn't get it working on my Windows XP system. But I tell ya this is/was one of the most exciting interactive audio works for the Web. A crying shame it's so hard to get working now! BEATNIK/MIDI ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:29:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Economic message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I did once take a temp job trying to get paint off the windows of a recently repainted hotel in downtown DC -- EVERY window in the building -- didn't leave me much energy for writing. On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:48:40 +0000, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Anybody on this list peel potatoes or wash windows for a living? > > > On Jun 23, 2006, at 2:36 AM, alexander saliby wrote: > > > > And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & > > teachers may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know > > this: fewer than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," > > write and make an adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us > > do it because we can't stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, > > wash windows, and peel potatoes to fill in the incidental stuff > > like food and lodging. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:29:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Economic message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I did both in my youth...and I got to scrub out the pans the potatoes = were cooked in after I peeled the damn things and sliced them so the = cook could turn them into au gratin sort of food.=20 Worse, or I should say, more tedious and tiring than the potato mess was = that I grouted ceramic tile for about 18 months. Hardest, most = demanding and physically painful job I ever had, but the pay was good, = or so I thought at the time. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: mIEKAL aND=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 11:48 AM Subject: Re: Economic message Anybody on this list peel potatoes or wash windows for a living? On Jun 23, 2006, at 2:36 AM, alexander saliby wrote: > > And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & =20 > teachers may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know = > this: fewer than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," =20 > write and make an adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us = > do it because we can't stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, =20 > wash windows, and peel potatoes to fill in the incidental stuff =20 > like food and lodging. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:32:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Economic message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Trying to get more people to read is the business I'm in now, having not fared so well as a window cleaner -- I think the teachers on this list will agree that one of the few real rewards of our profession is seeing the enthusiasm with which some students take to some of the readings we bring to them. Slow work, admittedly -- but a few of those copies of small press books that get bought get bought by people who've been in my classes -- On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:01:03 +0000, Jonathan Penton wrote: > I'm glad for the discussion too. As you say, there are no easy answers, > and precious few difficult answers. As has been said, few of us will > make more than pocket money. It's still worth discussing. > > It strikes me that most of the suggestions offered so far (and again, > I'm glad for all of them), indeed most of the suggestions I see floated > about writers' groups in general, are targeted at giving a specific > person a greater share of the very limited available funds to writers. > Schools, for example, whether accredited or unaccredited, make their > money from hopeful future writers, rather than readers. Google Adwords > are a little better, for what little money they yield, since they're > based on surfing rather than purchases, but unless purchases are finally > made, that system will fall apart (or prey on magazine editors who > advertise). Rarely do I see any suggestions on how to get more people to > read, which is the necessary long view. > > -- > Jonathan Penton > http://www.unlikelystories.org > > > charles alexander wrote: > > I don't want to say "damn straight." It seems to me that all the > > writers on this list write because they are, as Creeley used to say, > > "given to write." They have to, and nothing else works for them. All > > of us also, clearly, have to have enough money to both keep us alive > > and to find some time to write. I'm glad Ann Bogle brought this issue > > up, but I don't have any easy answers for her, because I think each of > > us finds (or does not find) the mix of work and writing that keeps us > > going. Some patchwork it together, some take full-time jobs in > > teaching, some outside of teaching, some work in the nonprofit sector, > > some work in the corporate sector - we're all over the map. And we do > > sometimes need and ask for support, and I've only heard her get a > > little of that here, with more lack of support bordering on dismissal > > of her concerns -- sort of a "hey girl get tough" attitude. That just > > strikes me as a little too cold. Ann, I hope you find something that > > works for you. > > > > charles > > > > > > At 09:28 AM 6/23/2006, you wrote: > >> i just wanted to chime in with a resounding "damn straight." > >> > >> and also to say forget about the delusion of writing for a living. > >> that dream is something that i think should be quashed altogether, > >> mostly because if you do manage to do it, most likely you're doing > >> all sorts of obnoxious garbage like writing ad copy and generally > >> behaving like neil pollack. write because you want to be read, and > >> you'll be okay. maybe every once in a while someone will give you a > >> check for something you've written, and that will be a nice > >> supplement to your real job, but it won't be your bread and butter. > >> > >> art doesn't do well in mass market capitalism. particularly art that > >> pushes against things like the tastes of the masses who make up the > >> market. and generally speaking, things like fiction and poetry don't > >> have enough of a niche with the kind of disposable cash to act as > >> writing patrons. Sure, there are some colleges that can do it by > >> giving out professorships to writers, but that's a problem too > >> because the more professorships there are, the more creative writing > >> programs there are churning out more mediocre MFAs. > >> > >> So yeah, do it because you like doing it. If you want to make money, > >> go get an MBA. They're easy to get. You can do it on the internet in > >> four to six weeks, according to several pieces of spam i recieved > >> this morning. > >> > >> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006, alexander saliby wrote: > >> > >>> Dear AMBogle2@aol.com > >>> > >>> If I understand this request, you are asking me to sanction and > >>> suggest ways you can scam to keep from working in order to support > >>> yourself while you write. I can't do that. > >>> > >>> There is only one way to make a living 'from' writing, and that is > >>> to write stuff that sells so that the stuff you have written > >>> supports your bad habit of writing instead of being a productive > >>> member of society and doing important stuff like working for a living. > >>> > >>> Given that your writing isn't selling for enough to do that, means > >>> you have little choice except to work for a living while you indulge > >>> yourself in your bad habit. > >>> > >>> I have some friends who are ski-bums. They cross the globe seeking > >>> the perfect downhill moment; they all know, however, they can't earn > >>> a living (e.g. support themselves) from slalom & moguls. They pay > >>> the rent and buy their food from the money they earn doing other > >>> stuff: waiting tables, changing oil on other people's cars, painting > >>> walls puce because some bouffant blonde wants puce walls, being > >>> go-fers for all walks of business people. But they don't want a > >>> different life...they live to ski. > >>> > >>> I have some other friends who are wannabe musicians. They too cross > >>> the country seeking the perfect gig. But for them, the gig isn't > >>> cash, it's a place they can explode into their perfect (their words, > >>> not mine) orchestrations...harmonies and the cacophony of melding > >>> instruments. Most of these friends are salt of the earth folks. > >>> They work in places like Safeway or Wall-Mart in order to sustain > >>> themselves between cash from performing. None however wants to face > >>> the reality that they will never be James Taylor, or Eric > >>> Clampton...despite the fact that facing that reality would simplify > >>> their lives. > >>> > >>> I write every day; I have written every day since I was a sixth > >>> grade student...I wrote when I was a student; I wrote when I was a > >>> teacher; I wrote when I worked in industry; I write now. None of > >>> that effort supports me...none of that writing pays the bills. > >>> > >>> Why is that? Simply because I am neither a Hemmingway nor a > >>> Frost...though I did aspire to equal both in my youth. > >>> > >>> And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & > >>> teachers may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know > >>> this: fewer than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," > >>> write and make an adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us > >>> do it because we can't stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, wash > >>> windows, and peel potatoes to fill in the incidental stuff like food > >>> and lodging. > >>> > >>> So, the best advice I can give you is this: Write. Keep writing. > >>> Work...keep working. And until your writing begins paying the > >>> bills, don't confuse the two...writing, from working for a living. > >>> They are in all probability different activities, both essential to > >>> your future. > >>> Alex > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM > >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:35 AM > >>> Subject: Economic message > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs, > >>> > >>> What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have > >>> sit-down > >>> (face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a > >>> little > >>> reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my > >>> first day, I clicked > >>> on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little > >>> church website > >>> on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I > >>> read the > >>> policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly > >>> prohibited. > >>> Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little > >>> better than $2 > >>> per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just > >>> under $3 for the > >>> whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a > >>> rather lousy > >>> sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers > >>> (I drank > >>> almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 > >>> each. My friend's > >>> Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could > >>> advertising > >>> on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. > >>> I usually > >>> stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. > >>> If I were > >>> earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would > >>> feel nicely > >>> employed. That would equal $240 per day. > >>> > >>> $250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U > >>> of Houston > >>> were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one > >>> undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those > >>> teachers who regarded me as > >>> the best writer currently in attendance at the school. Not best I > >>> would have > >>> thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract > >>> hour to teach > >>> and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 > >>> hours -- > >>> we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in > >>> order to do a > >>> more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very > >>> lucky indeed > >>> if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages. In > >>> Minnesota, > >>> where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up > >>> from $7.50 > >>> ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing > >>> and food > >>> have gone up dramatically. Teaching here is done on a voluntary > >>> basis. It may > >>> be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn > >>> more than > >>> $4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I > >>> need to wait > >>> to do so until the school year starts. > >>> > >>> I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has > >>> been true > >>> for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is > >>> leaving me > >>> feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone > >>> $400,000 in > >>> earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that > >>> number is only going > >>> to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance > >>> and family > >>> for sustenance. > >>> > >>> My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in > >>> attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going > >>> in, based on > >>> writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going > >>> in. Politically > >>> and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat. > >>> > >>> I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to > >>> earn > >>> $10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just > >>> another one. > >>> > >>> Ann Bogle > >> > > > > charles alexander / chax press > > > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > > read from the inside out speak then > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:02:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: A question In-Reply-To: <000d01c696cb$9b0bd810$6501a8c0@YOUR6DDD04B03A> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Well, the name of the country in which it is published IS on the bottom=20= of the page. Presumably the language will be the language of that country. On 23-Jun-06, at 6:47 AM, Richard Jeffrey Newman wrote: > I wonder if this has happened to anyone else: Yesterday, I was, just=20= > for the > hell of it, googling the title of my new book of poetry, The Silence=20= > Of Men, > and I discovered a site on which someone--I don't know who--had=20 > translated > the title poem of the book into a language I do not recognize and=20 > posted it > to a website that seems to be an international collection of poetry in > translation. This person did not take the poem from the book itself,=20= > but > rather, complete with the author's photo I had used, from an online=20 > literary > journal that had published it a couple of years ago. No one ever=20 > contacted > me about this and, as far as I know, no one ever contacted the editor=20= > of the > literary magazine either. On the one hand, I am quite flattered; on = the > other, it's a little disturbing to me that someone would publish the > translation without even contacting me. I am curious what other=20 > people's > reactions are. Also, I am hoping someone can tell me what the language=20= > of > the translation is and, if it=92s not too much trouble, where on the=20= > website I > can find the email of the person who translated it so that I can=20 > contact him > or her. I am, of course, also curious to know if the translation is = any > good. > > Here's the translation, which you can find at > http://www.hetprieeltje.net/oogvanderoos/gednewman.html: > > DE STILTE VAN MANNEN > > Een man waarvan ik nooit eerder had gedroomd wandelt > mijn appartement binnen en neemt plaats in de groene > fauteuil waarin ik altijd zit om te schrijven. Hij houdt > in zijn linker hand een grote stijve penis vast > die hij stilletjes neerzet op de vloer. > De fallus begint te walsen op muziek > die ik niet kan horen. Met zijn scrotum, > testikels en benen afgesneden tot aan de knie=EBn. > wil ik weten waarom dit misvormd > manswezen naar mij werd gebracht. Ik kijk op > maar mijn gast is verdwenen. Zijn orgaan, schokkend > met korte spasmen zoals een hoestende oude man, > spreidt zich uit in een plas van dun bloed. > De stilte tussen ons is de stilte van mannen. > > (The silence of men) > > Bron: The Pedestal Magazine > > (geplaatst op 25-04-2005) > > ************************************* > > Here's the original: > > The Silence Of Men > > > A man I=92ve never dreamed before walks > into my apartment and sits in the green > chair where I do my writing. He carries > in his left hand a large erect penis > which he places silently on the floor. > The phallus begins to waltz to music > I cannot hear, its scrotum a skirt; > its testicles, legs cut off at the knees. > I want to know why this disfigured > manhood has been brought to me. I look up, > but my guest is gone. His organ, deflating > in short spasms like an old man coughing, > spreads itself in a pool of shallow blood. > The silence between us is the silence of men. > > Thanks-- > > Rich Newman > www.richardjnewman.com > > > > George Bowering, M.A. Once saw Marianne Moore plain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:14:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <200606232329.k5NNT0a09304@webmail13.cac.psu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit One job I didnt much like was cleaning coagulated blood out of rubber tubes at the blood bank. Didnt paY WELL, EITHER. GB On 23-Jun-06, at 4:29 PM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > I did once take a temp job trying to get paint off the windows of a > recently > repainted hotel in downtown DC -- EVERY window in the building -- > didn't leave > me much energy for writing. > > On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:48:40 +0000, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> Anybody on this list peel potatoes or wash windows for a living? >> >> >> On Jun 23, 2006, at 2:36 AM, alexander saliby wrote: >>> >>> And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & >>> teachers may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know >>> this: fewer than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," >>> write and make an adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us >>> do it because we can't stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, >>> wash windows, and peel potatoes to fill in the incidental stuff >>> like food and lodging. >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > > Mr. G. Bowering, Misses the open faces of youth in socialist Europe, 1966. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:16:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kenneth Wolman Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ms. Bogle, I'm glad I'm not the only refugee from Binghamton on this list. The English Department of course got to be renowned AFTER 1976, i.e., after I'd shucked, jived, and occasionally worked my way through the Ph.D. program. I keep missing some of the good ones. I missed James Wright by a few months when I was at Lehman nee Hunter. And John Gardner showed up after I was gone, some others, most recently Maria Gillan, the first person of any repute to publish me. There were undergraduates named Revell, Blumenthal, and Peacock. I knew from nothing. I was not a writer in the early '70s--but Robert Kroetsch, who was the real deal, embarrassed the shit out of me at a memorial reading for Pound back in 1972 by calling me a "poet." I'd let him read some of what I was writing. I don't know why the hell I trusted him but I did and I wasn't sorry. But: I wasn't a poet then and I'm not now. I've just written a few poems over the years, and gotten lucky like a Trappist monk delivering bourbon fudge to a brothel. "Poet" sets up certain expectations in my own mind, let alone other people's. I can't even define what they are. Maybe the expectations have to do with the idea that writing is related to making a living? If so, the more fool I. * Earning a living is what got my attention. I can't do that at the moment. I lost my job on March 27 and except for a week in Brooklyn that involved age discrimination directed against me, I haven't been able to work since. Family Court is up my butt about back alimony. Duh. No income=no alimony. It is ugly. So jobs prey on me. * As for making a living writing...my dissertation advisor at SUNY-Bingbang has a son who long ago wanted to write pornographic fiction. Not even high-toned Olympia Press stuff, but real slippery-floor-shop stroke books. Mel asked his kid "How many different ways can you think of to DO it?" That stopped the young man cold. * I sometimes imagine I would like to be a male prostitute like Dan Brown and write religious pornography along the lines of The DaVinci Code or Angels & Demons. I confess: I read 1/3 of Angels & Demons before I knew it was not going to get better. Mea maxima culpa. But I did not grab a ceremonial dagger and try to perform sepuku to cover my shame. Nevertheless, I persist in telling myself that if I am paid enough to write for a fukbuck, if I can turn into Irving Wallace or Harold Robbins, i.e., I can live with the face in the mirror. Maybe. Working in WalMart, however, as I might have to, is not dishonorable. * I got paid to write poetry: twice! Except for a few desultory poems such as the ones Kroetsch read, I didn't get serious until I was 46, in 1990. Time One was the result of the perfect job: Associate Editor of the AT&T Technical Journal, a bigger pile of happy horse-shit you never saw. I learned the production cycle in a month, then spent three and a half years writing poetry at work on what I call an AT&T grant. I had the sort of job where you cannot invent work if it isn't given to you, so poetry filled my time very nicely. * Second time was winning a NJ State Council on the Arts Fellowship in 1995. I entered because I had nothing else to do. I was totally shocked when I was one of the winners. A whole $7200 which I had to declare, i.e., hide, because I'd solicited the money. Nevertheless, it was a joy. And I didn't quit my day job. I haven't won since. * There is for me an interesting correlation between a day job and the ability to write. Right now, to paraphrase Mose Allison, my mind is on vacation, or better, I am SO channeled into getting back into the work world that the rare word I manage to commit probably sucks beyond all manner of means. * It may come back. * It may be gone. * I don't worry about it. Ken -------------------- Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com "Don't be a baby, be a man. Sell out."--Lenny Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:31:09 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: it=?windows-1252?Q?=92woht?= I say/I say/ MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT it’woht I say/I say/ lyrical bi raciality/ I subvert the game/way from lyin treaties/ andshuffle the system of my status card/ well sharp/ not destructive or strapt/ confusin the tracks like a tragic hero negro hamlet pondering what to do like our lives like hung like a burden I use the explosion of my logic/ cuz, I ain’t nah victim in vic, dun/ tryin to sound bosie or hard/ I’m an intellegent young bravo/ just tyin to chill in my yard/ b.u.t. naw I gotz to step it heavy/ smasin inset hives and lackys/ expose my sad self/infectin my creativity/ my body/my mind/my spirit/freedome and individuality/ those rights are elementary/ firmé rocker phat is me, spar/ hollerin rolas to build the dream/ supreme bashement mighty ruckus sound/ u pallo and me big fuchx set to move the crowd/ with solid chat come to wake the town/ my sonic dynamite for the soul of g’z/ yuh system gets left like the big 3’s casualities/ no other set as tight as us/ take a draw and nice up the cuss/ downtempo antipolitrickology/ of my heavy selector cutz/ I’ll x-ray an essay and thump up my thesis/ sounds system sentences set to reverb a verb/ this should amplify an ablative/ and treble a subject to project a predicate/ then I’ll fix them on shelf tops to sharpen a topic/ the primary purpose of the embryonic transmitter/ phase inversion the connector to blend the determiners/ I’m walkin faster backwards mashin nouns with a hammer/ pallo/I guess this is the bassit of the dubguistic grammar/ a poetic slammer with no stammer/ historic visions etched inna paño/ awo/you kno/ I kno/you kno/ I gots the hot stuff/ I can make those celestions halos pound tough/ this no lightweight stuff/ don’t check me/ yuh cyan get next to me/ come get at me/ with that schooly d ghetto deplomacy/ feel me/ I done give a frig who killed pac or biggie/ I wanna kno who cosht jam master jay and walter rodney/ listen carefully/ This was the grammar of ghetto poetry borns litearacy and the lesson of the orginal man’s history- 1427 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC ___\ Stay Strong \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) "They want to see us breathless. We will not be. They want to see us tired. We refuse to be. They want to see what our strength is. We will not show it in advance. We will continuously surprise them." -- Julia Wright "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor"\ --harry belafonte "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad\ \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:31:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Economic message - Ishaqonomics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Ishaqonomics Getting happy horse-shit you never perfect gig. But for them, the gig ROAD RUNNER AND DEDUCT THE WEEKLY etc-- > >>> dear bloggers and visitors to in a job where the workload was normal dinner, I'd turn on the tube > >>> BETTER THAN $2 > >> and also to say forget about > >>> i write every day; i have bought get bought by people who've pleasure of a warm meal every neil pollack. write because you want > >>> and also to say forget about the > >>> where i have lived for ten was 46, in 1990. Time One was years MIGHT HAVE TO, IS NOT > >> equal both in my youth. > >>> SUGGEST WAYS YOU CAN SCAM TO Copy and generally behaving like > >>> Ten. > >>> under $3 for the you is this: Write. Keep writing. > >> the result of the perfect job: > >>> church website Might have to, is not None of Had nothing else to do. i was turn into Irving Wallace or accredited or unaccredited, make > I'm glad for all of them), indeed copy and generally behaving like > >>> If I understand this request, > >>> the perfect downhill moment; a college. By default I ended up in > >>> number is only going A > >>> stay at it on a simple day how to live > >>> with ever less-- Jonathan penton wrote: should be quashed altogether, > >>> mostly floated > >>> sandwich that cost $34. How > >> market. and > >>> generally speaking, > >>> They work in places like RIDICULOUSLY > >>> IMBALANCED AND NOBODY > >>> I'm an intellegent young bravo/ in am neither a Hemmingway nor a BUTTER. > >>> work...keep working. and things like fiction and poetry don't THIS NO LIGHTWEIGHT STUFF/ year starts. > >>> Why is that? Simply because I A RESOUNDING "DAMN STRAIGHT." > >>> themselves between cash from Just those rights are elementary/ food I KNO/YOU KNO/ > >> That the stuff you have written earn Slow work, admittedly -- but a few James Safeway or Wall-Mart in order to it was 1 going > > writing, didn't give me the time to By--available around city--things > >> Colleges that can do it by giving totally shocked when I was one that one of the few real rewards of Just tyin to chill in my yard/ job. I haven't won since. free, that one of the few real rewards of historic visions etched inna paño/ dishonorable. > >>> yourself in your bad habit. found on & Demons before I knew it was KEEP IT OPEN ALWAYS and most likely you're doing all sorts > > and to find some time to write. that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little money they yield, since > > of the winners. A whole $7200 writing from earning a living. As a > >>> $4,000 per year. to tutor, > >>> hours -- > >>> on my own ads so many times, > >>> > >>> earning $10/hour for > >>> if an organization offered to words, Probably sucks beyond all > > writers on this list write > >>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > >>> I done give a frig who > >>> killed pac or biggie/ "poet." I'd let him read some of bought get > >>> bought by people who've you have abt 6 dollar a day to live THINGS > >>> LIKE FICTION AND POETRY DON'T > >> probably sucks beyond all Wash > >>> have been nice to support myself in Attendance at the school. not > >>> best I use the explosion of my logic/ August Highland www.august-highland.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release Date: 6/23/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:32:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: it'woht I say/I say/ --- heavy selector cutz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response heavy selector cutz I wanna kno who cosht jam master jay and walter rodney/ I can make those celestions halos pound tough/ and treble a subject to project a predicate/ I subvert the game/way from lyin treaties/ with that schooly d ghetto deplomacy/ Like our lives like hung like a burden I use the explosion of my logic/ awo/you kno/ of my heavy selector cutz/ downtempo antipolitrickology/ then I'll fix them on shelf tops to sharpen a topic/ smasin inset hives and lackys/ come get at me/ Tryin to sound bosie or hard/ pallo/I guess this is the bassit of the dubguistic grammar/ No other set as tight as us/ don't check me/ with solid chat come to wake the town/ I kno/you kno/ Smasin inset hives and lackys/ awo/you kno/ Cuz, i ain't nah victim in vic, dun/ well sharp/ I'll x-ray an essay and thump up my thesis/ cuz, I ain't nah victim in vic, dun/ I'm walkin faster backwards mashin nouns with a hammer/ historic visions etched inna paño/ supreme bashement mighty ruckus sound/ I done give a frig who killed pac or biggie/ phase inversion the connector to blend the determiners/ U pallo and me big fuchx b.u.t. naw I gotz to step it heavy/ Borns litearacy borns litearacy I'm walkin faster backwards mashin nouns with a hammer/ I kno/you kno/ yuh cyan get next to me/ with solid chat come to wake the town/ yuh system gets left like the big 3's casualities/ no other set as tight as us/ yuh cyan get next to me/ don't check me/ Of my heavy selector cutz/ expose my sad self/infectin my creativity/ historic visions etched inna paño/ cuz, I ain't nah victim in vic, dun/ This was the grammar of ghetto poetry I wanna kno who cosht jam master jay and walter rodney/ I wanna kno who cosht jam master jay and walter rodney/ yuh system gets left like the big 3's casualities/ supreme bashement mighty ruckus sound/ I can make those celestions halos pound tough/ confusin the tracks like a tragic hero negro hamlet then I'll fix them on shelf tops to sharpen a topic/ I wanna kno who cosht jam master jay and walter rodney/ I done give a frig who killed pac or biggie/ feel me/ andshuffle the system of my status card/ yuh cyan get next to me/ this no lightweight stuff/ firmé rocker phat is me, spar/ Firmé rocker phat is me, spar/ borns litearacy with solid chat come to wake the town/ b.u.t. naw I gotz to step it heavy/ phase inversion the connector to blend the determiners/ those rights are elementary/ firmé rocker phat is me, spar/ this should amplify an ablative/ this no lightweight stuff/ Lyrical bi raciality/ listen carefully/ andshuffle the system of my status card/ not destructive or strapt/ those rights are elementary/ tryin to sound bosie or hard/ take a draw and nice up the cuss/ listen carefully/ yuh system gets left like the big 3's casualities/ With solid chat come to wake the town/ feel me/ the primary purpose of the embryonic transmitter/ Yuh cyan get next to me/ I use the explosion of my logic/ confusin the tracks like a tragic hero negro hamlet cuz, I ain't nah victim in vic, dun/ with solid chat come to wake the town/ I gots the hot stuff/ WELL SHARP/ Take a draw and nice up the cuss/ just tyin to chill in my yard/ FIRMé ROCKER PHAT IS ME, SPAR/ just tyin to chill in my yard/ of my heavy selector cutz/ SOUNDS SYSTEM SENTENCES SET TO REVERB A VERB/ The primary purpose of the embryonic transmitter/ borns litearacy I KNO/YOU KNO/ Like our lives like hung like a burden downtempo antipolitrickology/ WITH SOLID CHAT COME TO WAKE THE TOWN/ Pallo/i guess this is the bassit of the dubguistic grammar/ then I'll fix them on shelf tops to sharpen a topic/ ANDSHUFFLE THE SYSTEM OF MY STATUS CARD/ set to move the crowd/ I'll x-ray an essay and thump up my thesis/ Supreme bashement mighty ruckus sound/ b.u.t. naw I gotz to step it heavy/ Borns litearacy no other set as tight as us/ with solid chat come to wake the town/ Don't check me/ lyrical bi raciality/ listen carefully/ I'll x-ray an essay and thump up my thesis/ historic visions etched inna paño/ a poetic slammer with no stammer/ ANDSHUFFLE THE SYSTEM OF MY STATUS CARD/ yuh system gets left like the big 3's casualities/ I'm an intellegent young bravo/ I'm walkin faster backwards mashin nouns with a hammer/ come get at me/ THEN I'LL FIX THEM ON SHELF TOPS TO SHARPEN A TOPIC/ borns litearacy I done give a frig who killed pac or biggie/ I wanna kno who cosht jam master jay and walter rodney/ historic visions etched inna paño/ Those rights are elementary/ cuz, I ain't nah victim in vic, dun/ just tyin to chill in my yard/ I can make those celestions halos pound tough/ historic visions etched inna paño/ Come get at me/ no other set as tight as us/ like our lives like hung like a burden I'M AN INTELLEGENT YOUNG BRAVO/ Take a draw and nice up the cuss/ No other set as tight as us/ phase inversion the connector to blend the determiners/ like our lives like hung like a burden Hollerin rolas to build the dream/ then I'll fix them on shelf tops to sharpen a topic/ smasin inset hives and lackys/ historic visions etched inna paño/ a poetic slammer with no stammer/ of my heavy selector cutz/ HISTORIC VISIONS ETCHED INNA PAñO/ I'll x-ray an essay and thump up my thesis/ Take a draw and nice up the cuss/ firmé rocker phat is me, spar/ with that schooly d ghetto deplomacy/ I CAN MAKE THOSE CELESTIONS HALOS POUND TOUGH/ Tryin to sound bosie or hard/ those rights are elementary/ WITH SOLID CHAT COME TO WAKE THE TOWN/ feel me/ I subvert the game/way from lyin treaties/ FEEL ME/ and treble a subject to project a predicate/ awo/you kno/ Pondering what to do I use the explosion of my logic/ This was the grammar of ghetto poetry DOWNTEMPO ANTIPOLITRICKOLOGY/ Pondering what to do cuz, I ain't nah victim in vic, dun/ THIS SHOULD AMPLIFY AN ABLATIVE/ I kno/you kno/ I kno/you kno/ AND TREBLE A SUBJECT TO PROJECT A PREDICATE/ tryin to sound bosie or hard/ of my heavy selector cutz/ TRYIN TO SOUND BOSIE OR HARD/ My sonic dynamite for the soul of g'z/ borns litearacy Lyrical bi raciality/ hollerin rolas to build the dream/ my body/my mind/my spirit/freedome and individuality/ PALLO/I GUESS THIS IS THE BASSIT OF THE DUBGUISTIC GRAMMAR/ Phase inversion the connector to blend the determiners/ I'm walkin faster backwards mashin nouns with a hammer/ With solid chat come to wake the town/ firmé rocker phat is me, spar/ b.u.t. naw I gotz to step it heavy/ LISTEN CAREFULLY/ cuz, I ain't nah victim in vic, dun/ It'woht i say/i say/ with that schooly d ghetto deplomacy/ I'm an intellegent young bravo/ Sounds system sentences set to reverb a verb/ a poetic slammer with no stammer/ supreme bashement mighty ruckus sound/ I can make those celestions halos pound tough/ borns litearacy then I'll fix them on shelf tops to sharpen a topic/ Feel me/ of my heavy selector cutz/ August Highland www.august-highland.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release Date: 6/23/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:42:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Links to interactive audio on the Web--the Web page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've put together a page featuring all the links I've saved concerning works of interactive audio for the Web. The URL is http://vispo.com/misc/ia.htm Please drop me a line and let me know of other works of interactive audio for the Web not on this page. I wrote an article in 2003 about the subject at http://tracearchive.ntu.ac.uk/review/index.cfm?article=80 but several of the main links aren't working anymore, so I thought I'd create and update a links page. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:31:29 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Manuel Brito Subject: RCEI special issue on American Poetry Anthologies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is just to announce the release of the academic journal _Revista Canaria de Estudios Ingleses_ (RCEI) No. 52, published at the University of La Laguna (Canary Islands, Spain). This special issue with the title of "Trumps of Innovation and Accreditation: Anthologies of Recent American Poetry" analyzes approaches and achievements in various poetry anthologies. Eight essays and an interview with poet and scholar Dennis Barone ranging from radical proposals to the most conventional issues in poetry but all these essays illustrate the wider than ever variety of active formulas in use in the American poetic scene. Contents: <>The Anthology as a Manifesto & as an Epic Including Poetry, or the Gradual Making of Poems for the Millennium Jerome Rothenberg <>Inside/Outside: Poets in the Academy Peter Gizzi Reflections on The Wisdom Anthology of North American Buddhist Poetry Hank Lazer Recovering Parody in Teaching Poetry Online Ian Lancashire Black Experiment: The Coltrane Exception Aldon Lynn Nielsen Disinclined to Run with the Herd: The Maverick Poets and the Neo-Avant-Garde Apocalypse Abigail L. Bowers The Contemporizing Canon: A Cross-Edition Case Study of The Norton Anthology of Modern Poetry Christopher M. Kuipers From Paperspace to Hyperspace: An Evaluation of E-Anthologies in Innovative American Poetry Manuel Brito Revolution and Modern American Poetry: Genevieve Taggard's Calling Western Union Alison Van Nyhuis Between Innovation and Revelation: A Conversation with Dennis Barone Manuel Brito & Richard Deming Please order your copy for $17.00 at svpubl@ull.es ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 09:35:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Negative Alphabet Alphabet, by Nico Vassilakis Comments: To: announce@logolalia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As we wave goodbye to the z of Rune 2 / 26 Voices / January Interlude, by Karl Kempton (Typewriter 10, Bird in the Bush), it's time to wave hello to the a of Negative Alphabet Alphabet, by Nico Vassilakis. New series beginning today at: http://www.logolalia.com/abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz/ Whee! Dan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 09:45:17 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: "Spring Diet of Flowers at Night" by Frank Sherlock /\\\////\\\\\////////////\ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "It has been night for some time now This is not an observation leveraged as blame but a wish to be shared in the dark" First commissioned by Jessica Lowenthal and Joshua Schuster as part of a project entitled "Poetry, Politics, Proximity: the Third Annual Kerry Sherin Wright Prize." This stunning new poem "Spring Diet of Flowers at Night" by Frank Sherlock is now a chapbook published by Mooncalf Press. "There should be infinite meaning in the blandness of a shot victim in an unfamiliar neighborhood but prospects of imagined life are tied to clean logic Diagetic background music has been used to steer me into attempting an architectural line" Full color cover art by artist Jon Allen. For ordering details, contact Mooncalf Press: _MooncalfPress@aol.com_ (mailto:MooncalfPress@aol.com) Mooncalf : A freak. [Mid-16th century. From moon + calf; originally in the meaning of "shapeless fleshy mass in the womb," thought to be caused by the influence of the moon.] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:12:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline How does being a librarian not resonate with the idea of poetry??? -Dan On 6/23/06, David Harrison Horton wrote: > Poetdom is historically filled with examples of poets taking jobs that don't > resonate with the idea of poetry, Stevens being a VP in an insurance agency > being the most obvious. George Bataille was a librarian. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:15:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <750c78460606240812l3a0a2be7l9ce02dcf076235d0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What the hell is the 'Idea' of poetry? Williams was a Doctor, Stevens an Insurance VP, Eliot a Banker, Whitman was a nurse and printer, Neruda was a diplomat, Olson was a Political Appointee. Survival and being able to actually write poetry is the imperative and I think these guys did ok?! Or did they sell out too? R -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Coffey Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 10:12 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Economic message How does being a librarian not resonate with the idea of poetry??? -Dan On 6/23/06, David Harrison Horton wrote: > Poetdom is historically filled with examples of poets taking jobs that > don't resonate with the idea of poetry, Stevens being a VP in an > insurance agency being the most obvious. George Bataille was a librarian. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:13:49 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Comments: To: British Poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New blog entry: "The Limitations of Visual Poetry" http://jeffreyside.tripod.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:26:57 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: New blog entry: The Limitations of Visual Poetry Comments: To: British Poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "The Limitations of Visual Poetry" http://jeffreyside.tripod.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:00:19 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: [jason@greenboathouse.com: New Release from Greenboathouse Books] Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Greenboathouse Books is pleased to announce the release of our first of = 2 titles for 2006: Those Girls, a gathering of short stories by Toronto writer Jessica = Westhead. Details on the chapbook are included below, or go ahead and jump to the = Greenboathouse website for all the info and images of the book. We've = also recently implemented PayPal on the site to make it nice and easy to = get your hands on a copy of Those Girls. Other recent news includes our 3rd consecutive Alcuin Award for = Excellence in Book Design in Canada, awarded for last year's release of = Sina Queyras' chapbook, Life, Still & Otherwise. Hope you're all smiling into the new summer. All the best, Jason ________________________________________ Jason Dewinetz Greenboathouse Books Publisher, Editor, Designer, &, etc. www.greenboathouse.com *** Those Girls by Jessica Westhead $15.00 Summer 2006 ISBN-10: 1-894744-21-7; ISBN-13: 978-1-894744-21-8 5.125" =D7 6.625"; 36pp; limited to 100 numbered & signed copies. In Those Girls, Jessica Westhead's new collection of short stories, the = style of Samuel Beckett meets the humour and content of a Dilbert = cartoon. Westhead writes about modern suburban life with pathos, wit and = razor-sharp dialogue. To read these stories is to take pleasure in the = mundane, daily language we hear everywhere we go. Few people have the = touch necessary to pull this off without seeming condescending or rude, = but Westhead does it effortlessly. Those Girls narrates a bunch of guys = whose lives are preoccupied with women - the women both in their lives = and in their fantasies that they never quite understand. This is a book = about how rarely people relate and the inexplicable nature of gender. = These guys are neither articulate nor successful; they fumble through = life spouting office clich=E9s and eating combos. They talk about women = at work, during lunch, or overhear them on the commuter train. They take = advice from the wrong people and get obsessed with their co-workers' = wives. These guys constantly try to get the attention of those girls and = figure out what makes them tick, but all to no avail. * Printed on Mohawk Concept Vellum, wrapped in a handmade Tibetan flyleaf = and a cover of Canson Mi-Tientes, hand-stitched with archival waxed = linen thread. The wrapper is Italian Florentine Portofino. This edition is limited to 100 numbered copies handsewn in paper = wrappers, and 26 copies lettered A-Z for private distribution, all = signed by the author. * Jessica Westhead is a Toronto writer and freelance editor. Her short = fiction has appeared in Matrix, Forget Magazine, Taddle Creek, Geist, = THIS Magazine, Kiss Machine and the anthology Desire, Doom & Vice, and = is forthcoming in The Antigonish Review. She also made poetry winner, a = zine-expos=E9 that blew the National Library of Poetry wide open. She = has been featured in a number of Toronto reading series, including the = Idler Pub, I.V. Lounge, Pontiac Quarterly and Lexiconjury, and has = recently written a novel about an orange juice legacy, love and the = perils of office life called Pulpy and Midge. -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:11:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <200606232332.k5NNWXu09507@webmail13.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very cool, and a necessary segment of such an effort. Jonathan ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > Trying to get more people to read is the business I'm in now, having not fared > so well as a window cleaner -- I think the teachers on this list will agree > that one of the few real rewards of our profession is seeing the enthusiasm > with which some students take to some of the readings we bring to them. > > Slow work, admittedly -- but a few of those copies of small press books that get > bought get bought by people who've been in my classes -- > > On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:01:03 +0000, Jonathan Penton wrote: > > >> I'm glad for the discussion too. As you say, there are no easy answers, >> and precious few difficult answers. As has been said, few of us will >> make more than pocket money. It's still worth discussing. >> >> It strikes me that most of the suggestions offered so far (and again, >> I'm glad for all of them), indeed most of the suggestions I see floated >> about writers' groups in general, are targeted at giving a specific >> person a greater share of the very limited available funds to writers. >> Schools, for example, whether accredited or unaccredited, make their >> money from hopeful future writers, rather than readers. Google Adwords >> are a little better, for what little money they yield, since they're >> based on surfing rather than purchases, but unless purchases are finally >> made, that system will fall apart (or prey on magazine editors who >> advertise). Rarely do I see any suggestions on how to get more people to >> read, which is the necessary long view. >> >> -- >> Jonathan Penton >> http://www.unlikelystories.org >> >> >> charles alexander wrote: >> >>> I don't want to say "damn straight." It seems to me that all the >>> writers on this list write because they are, as Creeley used to say, >>> "given to write." They have to, and nothing else works for them. All >>> of us also, clearly, have to have enough money to both keep us alive >>> and to find some time to write. I'm glad Ann Bogle brought this issue >>> up, but I don't have any easy answers for her, because I think each of >>> us finds (or does not find) the mix of work and writing that keeps us >>> going. Some patchwork it together, some take full-time jobs in >>> teaching, some outside of teaching, some work in the nonprofit sector, >>> some work in the corporate sector - we're all over the map. And we do >>> sometimes need and ask for support, and I've only heard her get a >>> little of that here, with more lack of support bordering on dismissal >>> of her concerns -- sort of a "hey girl get tough" attitude. That just >>> strikes me as a little too cold. Ann, I hope you find something that >>> works for you. >>> >>> charles >>> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:52:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Economic Messages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Praise to Vernon Frazer for his letter. Thanks to mIEKAL aND for outing window washers on the list. (The potato peelers on the list are coy.) Hats to Ken Wolman, a fellow SUNYionian. Regards to the writer on SSI, the winner who worked as a custodian, and all those who write because they say they have to and feel that economic questioning, necessity, and reality make for reasonable debate. Quite a number mentioned scamming; one man at his blog quoted my letter headed by the statement that I ought to be smacked. Women on the list are apparently unconcerned with how to earn $10,000 per year, which is both a good indicator and bad for my morale. After jobhunting every fall for eight years, I got an offer to teach in China. I adored the man who offered me the job. He said he liked my credentials and c.v. I reflected about what was listed there: the courses I had taken, including women writers and modernism, but not only: 40 courses and seminars in English alone, covering three degrees, German proficiency, creative writing, and liberal arts. I didn't go to China, however. I would have gone there in debt wearing their clothing. I was afraid to owe even $4,000 (what I still owe) living overseas. So, again, if I get up to solvency, options I don't have now might open up, but it has been a very long haul. My health is good. The unemployment started at age 32. No one suggested, as they did in chunking out the community college jobs in Houston: women can just get married. Considering that they were looking for heiresses and lawyers to marry themselves, I don't know which men they thought might marry us: creative writers making $3,000 per semester teaching four nights a week. This crazy geographer I went on a date with -- he told me, among other things that he is a Marxist, that I am "too thin for farm life," that he had been his family's breadwinner, that his wife stayed at home until the divorce then became a well-paid R.N. He said he had never met another woman like me in comparable finanicial circumstances -- I am seemingly set in a comfortable house in a beautiful part of the metro area but am staggeringly poor. He had had to refinance his farm when his wife wanted to go her separate way, and it left him feeling against the community property law in his state. He needs a housekeeper and told me to be a waitress after I had sent him my c.v. He said there was someone teaching English at his U who couldn't speak English. ETC. One of my brainstorms has been to study housekeeping. You who do are smart to teach reading -- I used to do that and liked it better than teaching writing. If someone were to teach house cleaning locally, I would sign up. To be really good and content at that would possibly get me somewhere. It makes me uncomfortable that so many people I know (three?) know Bush but no one I know knows the Clinton, Gores, Kerrys or Wellstones. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 01:37:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Proposed monument to the language of rupture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Proposed monument to the language of rupture http://tinyurl.com/ncfwv -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:25:49 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Hamilton-Emery Subject: Salt US shop now open Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Apologies for cross-posting SALT=B9S US SHOP OPENS TODAY! Salt=B9s revamped Web site now includes a new US shop, where customers can bu= y titles at 20% off the US list price, enjoy free US shipping on all orders over $30 and pay in dollars. http://www.saltpublishing.com/shop-us/ Very best Chris Chris Hamilton-Emery | Publishing Director |=A0Salt Publishing Ltd PO Box 937 | Great Wilbraham |=A0Cambridge | CB1 5JX |=A0+44 (0)1223 882220 101 Ways to Make Poems Sell available now! Click below to read more! http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/sgrw/1844711161.htm The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It is intended only for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely on information contained in this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this mail in error, please inform us immediately at sales@saltpublishing.com and delete it and all copies from your system. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:40:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sina queyras Subject: Brooklyn extended sublet MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi all, If anyone is interested in a long-term sublet please backchannel. Large one bedroom near Atlantic & Flatbush and therefore close to 2/3 4/5 B D Q A/C F. On a great street, lots of character. Cheers, Sina ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:52:30 -0500 Reply-To: pamelabeth@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Grossman Subject: Re: Economic message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my friend ivor hanson is a professional window washer and has written a very good memoir about his experiences--as a musician/window washer/admiral's son who was not expected to make a living in this way. i don't recall what they chose as the name of the book, which is coming out this year, but it grew from an essay he wrote for the "ny times" called "the allure of the ledge." one amazing detail: he was hired to wash some windows at the rather schmancy nyc building in which his parents were living. he showed up with his window gear. the doorman, who admitted him as a visitor on a regular basis, saw him with this gear and said, "sorry, ivor--you've got to take the service entrance!" but if he'd visited his parents earlier or later the same day, sans gear, he would of course enter through the front. i think about these issues regularly, and so do my friends--male, female, married or not, gay or straight, with or without children: how to afford to live, how to get by honestly and ethically, while still managing to pursue one's non-money-making (or, may or may not ever be money-making) passions and goals. i don't see a gender divide here. my female friends worry just as much. they're not expecting to be "rescued," financially or in any other way. btw, if anyone cares: i've written a book proposal closely related to this topic (w/ an historical view; not how-to!). my agent has been focusing more on another proposal of mine, but if any publishers out there, or people who know them, would like to see this one, i know she'd send it out promptly--as that would indicate a chance for her (and me) to make some money...... -----Original Message----- >From: mIEKAL aND >Sent: Jun 23, 2006 1:48 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Economic message > >Anybody on this list peel potatoes or wash windows for a living? > > >On Jun 23, 2006, at 2:36 AM, alexander saliby wrote: >> >> And, AMB, despite what some instructors, professors, advisors & >> teachers may have said to you about your skills and abilities, know >> this: fewer than 1 tenth of one percent of the folks who "write," >> write and make an adequate living from the efforts. The rest of us >> do it because we can't stop. And we do stuff like wait tables, >> wash windows, and peel potatoes to fill in the incidental stuff >> like food and lodging. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 10:54:33 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: london--spoken word live & unplugged MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT >>INFO: london--spoken word live & unplugged =========================================== SPOKEN WORD LIVE & UNPLUGGED Friday 30th June 2006, 6.30pm doors, for a 7.30pm start Poetry Cafe, 22 Betterton St, Covent Garden WC2 £5 --- An inspiring Open Mic evening of spoken word wizardry, performance poetry, soulful expression and verbal dexterity. Also a special Q&A with our guest performer who is currently on a UK tour with his new album entitled Solidified. Featuring International Special Guest: Phenzwaan Open Mic sign up begins 6.30pm Show: 7.30pm Arrive early as place are limited!! For Guestlist Info: Tel: 07940 059 952 Email: events@phenzology.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:20:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Chapbook Review Copy Request Comments: To: lucipo@lists.ibiblio.org, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Apologies for cross-posting...(but please forward!) I'm sending out this note to request review copies of any chapbooks published within the last year. I write a new chapbook review column for Rain Taxi, the second of which appears in the summer 2006 issue, and features: Pritts; Loden; Elmslie; Hell/Shapiro; Cole; Schultz; and Nowak. Please send to: Noah Eli Gordon 195 Jackson ST #35 Denver, CO 80206 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:15:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Economic Messages & the Clintons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "It makes me uncomfortable that so many people I know (three?) know Bush = but=20 no one I know knows the Clinton, Gores, Kerrys or Wellstones." Ann Bogle *************************************************************************= *** Ann, Take comfort; We know the Clintons. Well, I should clarify, I know Walter and Irene Clinton. Walter is an = out of work, military school trained heavy equipment, former Korean = Conflict veteran diesel mechanic working as a part-time janitor for the = school district; Irene fills in at the middle school cafeteria when ever = she gets called. Both of them voted for Bill Clinton. "It's a namesake = thing..." Walter said when I asked him. =20 Incidentally, Walter sculpts, some in wood, but mostly stones. He likes = the feel of granite and marble when they've been polished. He took a = few courses at the Adult Ed center to help him hone his skills as a = sculptor, but he quit mid-way through the second such course. Seems his = Art Instructor insisted he draw out (sketch was the word used) his = creations before chipping away at the stone. "Pain in the ass technique = ," is how Walter referred to the requirement. "I feel the stone, and I = know what to take away," Walter assured me over a few beverages one = evening.=20 Irene says she likes the smile on Walter's face when he completes a = project. She prefers watercolor to oil as her medium. I equate her = work somewhat to that of O'Keefe; she has one petunia blossom on canvas = approx 36'' x 48" that stands out in my estimation. She's working on a = greatly exaggerated, 6 ft x 8 ft. close-up of Walter's lips in winter. = "He's at his warmest then," she told me. =20 Me, I like the fact they are friends who have found ways to earn money = to both pay for food and keep themselves in supplies they need for their = spiritual outlet. =20 I don't know any Gores or Kerrys, but I do on occasion dine with Mark = Bush when he returns to town to visit his children. =20 Mark's ex-wife Ariel slept with their neighbor while Mark was away on = business. Ariel and her friend now live in Mark's former home with Mark = and Ariel's two daughters. The court awarded Mark unrestricted = visitation rights, even though Ariel tried to deny them; she said later, = she just didn't want him around the girls, it was nothing personal. = Also, she got to keep living in the home he continues to pay the = mortgage on, and she got a 5 year retraining alimony allotment. The = judge said since she had been 18 when she first got pregnant, she never = had the opportunity to fully educate herself. =20 She took a few Adult Ed courses that amounted to nothing; I think one = course was on flower arranging for the holidays. Mostly she spent her = money pandering to her friend's whims and fantasies. Ariel's live-in = friend, I think his name is Ted, has been looking for meaningful work = for the past 5 years or so. He says he's tired of just having jobs; he = wants a career. I have never actually seen him leave the house to = embark on what might be called employment, but admittedly I've not been = able to observe 3rd shift hours. Somebody told me Ted had a degree in = Liberal Arts, but that could be just a rumor. I've never actually spoken = to the man. =20 Mark's trying to find work that won't take him on the road so much; he = blames the frequent trips for the divorce. He acknowledges though that = his commissions & 6 figure salary are tough to replace, especially for = an un-schooled, untrained salesperson whose primary skill seems to be a = warm personality and an ability to talk people into buying his narrow = list of fertilizer products. =20 My advice to Mark was that he should recommend to Ariel's friend that he = take Mark's job in order to satisfy that need for a career.=20 I made the recommendation for selfish reasons though; I was hoping, with = Ted on the road, Mark could get back together with Ariel, and once = again, I would be invited to Mark and Ariel's for a home-cooked meal. = God-damn, that woman knows how to put ingredients together into a savory = meal! She does a filet of sole wrapped around a crab cake mixture that = is literally the best sea-food thing I've ever eaten...and when she = serves it it's drizzled with a lime and pepper sauce that sparkles with = a hint of sweet red bell pepper. Untidy house or not, I think I could = learn to live with a little mess in the den. =20 Alex=20 P.S. which Wellstones? I only know Patricia; she lives in West = Virginia, or at least she did last time I saw her back in the early = 80's; she'd gotten fat since college. I don't think she works hard = enough since she got married to that Baptist minister...this girl used = to chug rum shooters, then she'd do half dozen of the boys in the room = just before passing out. Funny how she took to religion after she quit = the booze. I'm not really sure she's happy though. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Re: Economic Messages Praise to Vernon Frazer for his letter. Thanks to mIEKAL aND for outing window washers on the list. (The = potato=20 peelers on the list are coy.) Hats to Ken Wolman, a fellow SUNYionian. Regards to the writer on SSI, the winner who worked as a custodian, = and all=20 those who write because they say they have to and feel that economic=20 questioning, necessity, and reality make for reasonable debate. Quite a number mentioned scamming; one man at his blog quoted my = letter=20 headed by the statement that I ought to be smacked. Women on the list are apparently unconcerned with how to earn $10,000 = per=20 year, which is both a good indicator and bad for my morale. After jobhunting every fall for eight years, I got an offer to teach = in=20 China. I adored the man who offered me the job. He said he liked my = credentials=20 and c.v. I reflected about what was listed there: the courses I had = taken,=20 including women writers and modernism, but not only: 40 courses and = seminars in=20 English alone, covering three degrees, German proficiency, creative = writing,=20 and liberal arts. I didn't go to China, however. I would have gone = there in=20 debt wearing their clothing. I was afraid to owe even $4,000 (what I = still owe)=20 living overseas. So, again, if I get up to solvency, options I don't have now might = open up,=20 but it has been a very long haul. My health is good. The = unemployment started=20 at age 32. No one suggested, as they did in chunking out the community college = jobs in=20 Houston: women can just get married. Considering that they were = looking for=20 heiresses and lawyers to marry themselves, I don't know which men they = thought=20 might marry us: creative writers making $3,000 per semester teaching = four=20 nights a week. This crazy geographer I went on a date with -- he told me, among other = things=20 that he is a Marxist, that I am "too thin for farm life," that he had = been=20 his family's breadwinner, that his wife stayed at home until the = divorce then=20 became a well-paid R.N. He said he had never met another woman like = me in=20 comparable finanicial circumstances -- I am seemingly set in a = comfortable house in=20 a beautiful part of the metro area but am staggeringly poor. He had = had to=20 refinance his farm when his wife wanted to go her separate way, and it = left him=20 feeling against the community property law in his state. He needs a=20 housekeeper and told me to be a waitress after I had sent him my c.v. = He said there=20 was someone teaching English at his U who couldn't speak English. = ETC. One of my brainstorms has been to study housekeeping. You who do are = smart=20 to teach reading -- I used to do that and liked it better than = teaching=20 writing. If someone were to teach house cleaning locally, I would = sign up. To be=20 really good and content at that would possibly get me somewhere. It makes me uncomfortable that so many people I know (three?) know = Bush but=20 no one I know knows the Clinton, Gores, Kerrys or Wellstones. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:52:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Soundeye Poetry Festival, Cork Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I will be reading at the Soundeye Poetry Festival (Cork, July 3 -9) with a cast of poets that includes some folks on this list, Mairead Byrne, Jonathan Skinner, among possibly others. If you are nearby, please come - it sounds like it will be a week long party. There are rumors that the Soundeye Poetry website with 2006 schedules, etc., will soon go up: http://www.soundeye.org/festival/ Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Currently home of the Tenderly series, A serial work in progress. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:31:51 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: THIS TUESDAY, support First Lieutenant Ehren Watada for REFUSING TO GO TO IRAQ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Details on this Tuesday's day of international show of support: _http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_phillysound_archive.html#115118476 223434903_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_phillysound_archive.html#115118476223434903) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 20:38:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Petermeier Subject: bookstores in Vancouver & Winnipeg In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey all, I will be visiting Vancouver & Winnipeg in July. I'd appreciate information on bookstores in both cities where one might find works by bill bissett, George Bowering, bp Nichols, Lisa Robertson, Stuart Ross, and other fine Canadian poets. peace, love and understanding (never give up!) Steve Petermeier no man's land minneapolis, mn usa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:21:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Education MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FYI http://reference.aol.com/poetry Have any of you been here and seen this site? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 22:08:33 -0700 Reply-To: aklobuca@capcollege.bc.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Klobucar Organization: Capilano College Subject: Re: bookstores in Vancouver & Winnipeg In-Reply-To: <20060626033834.83764.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Best bookstore in Vancouver is probably the Charles H. Scott Gallery book shop on Granville Island. It's the Emily Carr School of Art and Design Gallery store. You can find work by Lisa Robertson there and quite a few small press books for sale. Most of the bookstores in the city have very meagre poetry collections, sad to say. Be prepared to be disappointed. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Petermeier Sent: June 25, 2006 8:39 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: bookstores in Vancouver & Winnipeg Hey all, I will be visiting Vancouver & Winnipeg in July. I'd appreciate information on bookstores in both cities where one might find works by bill bissett, George Bowering, bp Nichols, Lisa Robertson, Stuart Ross, and other fine Canadian poets. peace, love and understanding (never give up!) Steve Petermeier no man's land minneapolis, mn usa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 01:26:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Ken Rumble Comments: Originally-From: Ken Rumble From: Ken Rumble Subject: Burlesque: Monday, June 26: Rumble, Shockley, Pollack Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for the late notice, but..... Come on down to Bar Rouge! Monday, June 26th!! 8:00 pm!!! 1315 16th St. NW!!! Washington, DC!!!!! For Poetry! and Stripping!! Strippers!!: Ken Rumble! Fred Pollack! Evie Shockley!!! xo, Ken ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 00:38:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: Re: bookstores in Vancouver & Winnipeg] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit for used...try www.wesellusedbooks.com a western Ontario bookstore owner runs the site and is trying to list all existing used bookstores. He's doing very well for Canada and working on U.S. too Bowering at least should not be a problem...he's pretty big but my favorite canadian poet is Alden Nowlan (deceased, from Nova Scotia I believe)--he's fabulous--check our Purdy too. Anyone with a favorite used bookstore should check to see if it's listed on the site and get it listed if it's not...it's free. Charlie -- The truth is such a rare thing it is delightful to tell it Emily Dickinson www.poetrypoetry.com where you hear poems read by the poets who wrote them ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 00:11:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Steinberg Subject: Speaking of bookstores In-Reply-To: <20060626033834.83764.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'll be going to Scotland in August. Recommendations for bookstores in Edinburgh and Glasgow would be most welcome. Many thanks, Hugh Steinberg --- Steve Petermeier wrote: > Hey all, > > I will be visiting Vancouver & Winnipeg in July. I'd > appreciate information on bookstores in both cities > where one might find works by bill bissett, George > Bowering, bp Nichols, Lisa Robertson, Stuart Ross, and > other fine Canadian poets. > > peace, love and understanding (never give up!) > > Steve Petermeier > no man's land > minneapolis, mn > usa > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:15:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Chapbook Review Copy Request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit noah who there can review a new ugly duckling book 250 pages etc ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:49:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Economic message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fuck all this i was a superintendent a street vender a concrete inspector a drop out an unlearned fool perhaps enough pity the poor poet stuff i got a new book 200 poems 18 years of work listening reacting to one musician a perhaps piece of shit or a monumental work buy it and find out support me i need your money your laptops your love? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 01:18:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: This is an open apology to ALDON L NIELSEN. In-Reply-To: <200605301611.MAA09184@webmail18.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A member of this community, I recognize that everyone has a responsibility to react towards others with deference, and regardless of what circumstances might usually arise, and acutely appreciating that communication is not made possible otherwise. About a week ago, and I've been lame due to my hectic travel schedule and the foolishness with which I live my life, and this what I'm sharing seems important for reason of explanation for my disdainful behavior, but I was, regrettably, very rude to Aldon, my reaction to his intelligent inquiry best termed as inexcusable. To both Aldon L. Nielsen and this community, I apologize. I hope that a better job will be done next time I feel impatient, cranky, or otherwise angry with the world. Regards, Alexander Jorgensen --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 06:28:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Recent posts on Nomadics blog Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Comments: cc: Lucifer Poetics Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recent posts on Nomadics blog: Glucksmann on Vietnamisation or Somalisation? 9th Gnaoua World Music Festival The Rothenberg Dada Strain BHL, Grass, Schjeldahl Zoomorphic Calligraphy Dada Day Wicked 'Cycplopedia go to: http://pjoris.blogspot.com apologies for crossposting Pierre Joris =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism,since it is the merger of state and corporate power." =97 Benito Mussolini =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 Euro cell: 011 33 6 79 368 446 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 03:35:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: GEORGE ALDON AND COREY FROST and Re: Chinese is not a foreign language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A word like 'conflate' is a very good word. And because we do not know each other, this venue one of anonymity and sometimes here say, I can swallow, even enjoy, what was mustered and focused with intelligent candor. I will, however, address some of what was stated in your email of about a week old. To begin with, I, at best, hope to provide information, useful and free of either ego, arrogance and unfair or intentional bias--at worst, a compass. As stated in an earlier email, I have been traveling for about eight weeks, a short time in an otherwise continuous travel regimen of eight years. It has been difficult, as you know. Now, with what I hope is more than empty juice box slurping sounds-- If Paul Bowles be viewed as either colonialist or farce, then how about another: "As the traveler who has once been from home is wiser than he who has never left his own doorstep, so a knowledge of one other culture should sharpen our ability to scrutinize more steadily, to appreciate more lovingly, our own."--Margaret Mead You said: The distinction between "traveler" and "tourist" seems to me just as self-important and deluded as the old-fashioned tourist persona that it was meant to critique. Fair enough, and I understand your intent, I think, that being the reduction of egos and removal of elitism, the crumbling of distinctions that might otherwise dissuade a thoughtful person from either venturing out, as they say--or speaking what seems their truth. To be honest, and maybe this is not relevant for any other reason than for you to better understand me, I am proud of my knowledge acquired--for it has been earned--but, alas, I am no more, really, than a prole (and sometimes always) with ambition. But as a traveler, one who has really wandered the world, nearly 30 countries, residing in five, from places such as the Galapagos (where I lived and worked) to India (where I've returned from a second humanitarian trip in a matter of months), there are things I've observed. It is, and I think we're in agreement, about mind-set (and I will elaborate further and with examples). Now, with regards to either visa or passport, this, too, is important for it, really, I think, provides a framework for what the traveler, as a foreigner, might be entitled to byway of a culture, along with those expectations a receiving culture might have of that traveler. Additionally, race and time are factors, along with sensitivity and availability of created or provided opportunities for exploration within a culture and outside, into its margins (where most never venture, including within own native culture--but, as you know, this is often where the 'tastiest buds' are). In some instances, and this refers to mind-set, the most liberal of traveler's, let me say, still finds himself/herself constrained by such a willingness to accept without prejudice and be apart that it hinders (and often unknowingly). Too, often a traveler is so excited in unselfconscious domesticated form one sees what one wants to see, ventures to those areas most comfortable--most close to one's point of reference-- and is often limited by a worrisome presupposition that we are "basically" the same--which, I contend, we are not, or as I've observed. And death has been nearby more than a few times. That is to say, and as you know, our history and culture (personal, overall) shape us, no, but also often impede our open search. It is a pretense. In fact, it is a kind of prejudice parading about as an openness--and I think a mostly Western one. Too, it is about expectations--the traveler's and the host's. How many folks, for example, are able to pass or disappear within a culture visited. Often, there's the illusion of a culture opening itself, the supposing that one, through smiles, some shared exchange, has gained access to something special which may, often, be simply superficial. When one is hiking with one's LL Bean regalia, or participating in a study abroad program, shopping for clothing and other stuff precisely available for solely the traveler, or zipping from here to there with sights in mind, confronted by people perhaps sordid or impoverished, financial constraints and an unwillingness, naturally, to float with fluidity, so much happens that is often missed. Also, the best of intentions can prove to be fruitless and misguided--opportunities often rendered nil. Here are some examples, taken directly from most recently received emails-- An email from a T*b*ten friend in India, a refugee residing near place of dwelling of HH, where I was most recently: "Hi! It is very funny what I can hear from a Westerner who is a visitor sitting there and talking about touring Tibet to an Indian guy. He doesn't know even that is happening for Tibetan people in Tibet?...It seems that he doesn't know the path he treads along, for why and what target! I just remember that "Fluttering for a buffalo to appreciate the melodious cadence." Now, this, as I witnessed, was very common where I was. In fact, I was entrenched in this community where Israelis on Kibbutz and Germans, French visited to see HH. They didn't speak with Tibetans, purchased goods from Indians, rather than support a desperate people, rode around in motorbikes and smoked dope--on the top of the world no less. They went hiking, camping, very middle class things, Western things, and will return home with photos. And another, which relates to the same, but I could share an endless list of anecdotes: "I don't consider myself vulgar for trying to get a sense of what tibet feels like (yes, including the way the hans live) at this moment in HISTORY...It's a lot better for tibet to have travellers (yes, even insensitive holiday makers, but they generally do little harm other than irritating the crap out of people) than to be completely cut off from the rest of the world. Having tourists floating around can make tibet's political situation seem less dire. but if tibet were isolated, people such as yourself won't have a chance to delve into the angst among the tibetan intelligentsia and let the world know about the depth of chinese oppression." Well, this email, however well intentioned, is silly. Tibetans don't want her spending her money in Tibet, because money is made by the oppressor. Too, Tibet is not a holiday spot, as it is a place occupied, where 90% has been taken or destroyed. Oh, I just want, or think I have the write, is a mind-set of the most liberal minded of travelers often. Now, with regards to China, which is a Portugeuse word, and its 56 nationalities, the dominant Han, I know this country intimately. And Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan folk are very different from Mainlanders, as they are called. As my passport has been recorded at this internet cafe, little can be shared, but enough to either leave you constipated--or make the ol' sphincter collapse. I've lived in three regions, traveled extensively, run schools, worked for Tsinghua university, written text books, the British Embassy (British Council as an IELTS tester), developed a broad circle of friends from various economic and power-enabled, I'll call it, levels. This is relevant, because I come in contact with people who travel through this place, work in this place, and seemingly know little else their limited sphere, which is a judgement I hope you will allow me to make--these folk being both Chinese in nationality and foreigners. And China is such a complex issue/place, and without our Judeo-Greco underpinings. So, how it is to be Chinese? I do not know what it is to be Chinese any more than I know what it is to be American. I can only report my observations, share personal stories and anecdotes offered by people who might otherwise not be able to speak freely (and there is no political culture here, one could argue). Too, I have passed as ethnic minorities, which has been useful, especially as a writer, and I do think the best are spies. And I can say the same of the US. What one is, I think, is a product of places and personal knowledge. And this returns us, did, I think, to Mead. I'll stop, now -- and will continue tomorrow about those issues of linguistics. See, I am able to sit, now, and write. And no, by background is in English and cultural anthropology. My wife is a linguist, and she speaks about seven languages, including Mandarin, has worked as a translator. Me, I've studied five, not really an authority, as you say, on any, including both Mandarin and English--but I've my observations. And, please remember, out of fairness, that I never said I was an authority, which, and I do think, this word is misleading for a number of later to be discussed reasons. Digest till manana,amiga-- Alex --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:58:43 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Hamilton-Emery Subject: Soccer-free Sizzling Summer Savers Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Soccer-free Sizzling Summer Savers To celebrate the re-launch of the Salt Publishing Bookstore, we=B9d like to make you a special offer... * 20% discount on all Salt titles, every day of the year * 40% discount on selected Salt backlist titles, offer expires July 31st * 50% off three Staff picks, offer expires July 31st * Free postage on orders over =A330 or $30 http://www.saltpublishing.com/ Very best from us Chris Chris Hamilton-Emery | Publishing Director |=A0Salt Publishing Ltd PO Box 937 | Great Wilbraham |=A0Cambridge | CB1 5JX |=A0+44 (0)1223 882220 101 Ways to Make Poems Sell available now! Click below to read more! http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/sgrw/1844711161.htm The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It is intended only for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely on information contained in this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this mail in error, please inform us immediately at sales@saltpublishing.com and delete it and all copies from your system. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:25:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: one-year visiting faculty MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cleveland, Ohio The Department of English in the College of Arts and Sciences at Case Western Reserve University seeks a creative writer with experience teaching poetry for a one-year visiting appointment at the rank of lecturer, visiting instructor, or visiting assistant professor, depending on qualifications, for all or part of the academic year 2006-2007. Compensation commensurate with rank. 5-6 courses per year. MFA required. (Possible preference for a candidate qualified to teach African American or ethnic literature.) Electronic application consisting of a letter of application and c.v. to: William R. Siebenschuh, Chair mailto:william.siebenschuh@case.edu All applications received by July 15, 2006 will receive full consideration. diversity = aa/eoe, women or minorities ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:30:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: 13 by mIEKAL aND Comments: To: announce@logolalia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii the minimalist concrete poetry site at: http://www.logolalia.com/minimalistconcretepoetry/ has been updated with 13 pieces by mIEKAL aND. You don't go looking for poetry finds, you go, looking, for poetry finds. Have you ever wanted to write poems that used trees, mountains, stars, and/or squirrels instead of words? Here are the letters with which to build that vocabulary. Enjoy, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:07:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed An announcement of a reading in NY this week by Monica de la Torre was posted to the list last week. It's lost somewhere on my computer. I'd like to attend. Anyone who has the info, please b/c. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:23:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: 13 by mIEKAL aND In-Reply-To: <86zmg0f3j4.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline So primal! Really essence itself stirring. -Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ On 6/26/06, Dan Waber wrote: > > the minimalist concrete poetry site at: > > http://www.logolalia.com/minimalistconcretepoetry/ > > has been updated with 13 pieces by mIEKAL aND. > > You don't go looking for poetry finds, > you go, looking, for poetry finds. > > Have you ever wanted to write poems that used trees, mountains, stars, > and/or squirrels instead of words? Here are the letters with which to > build that vocabulary. > > Enjoy, > Dan > -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:23:43 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicky Melville Subject: Re: Speaking of bookstores (and in Orlando) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Hugh, here's a few in edinburgh where you can buy nice chapbooks and artists' books (including some of my own): wordpower books - West Nicholson Street - www.word-power.co.uk elvis shakespeare - Leith Walk - www.elvisshakespeare.com The Fruitmarket Gallery - Market Street - www.fruitmarket.co.uk Analogue & The Red Door Gallery - Victoria Street - www.analoguebooks.co.uk / www.grassmarket.net/featured/The_Red_Door_Gallery.htm There are also some decent second hand bookshops in the West Port, just past the Grassmarket. Hope you find some nice work; feel free to back channel if you want further help. Awe thu best, nick-e melville P.S. Anyone know of any good bookshops in the Orlando area? From: Hugh Steinberg Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Speaking of bookstores Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 00:11:56 -0700 >I'll be going to Scotland in August. Recommendations for bookstores in >Edinburgh and Glasgow >would be most welcome. > >Many thanks, > >Hugh Steinberg > >--- Steve Petermeier wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > > I will be visiting Vancouver & Winnipeg in July. I'd > > appreciate information on bookstores in both cities > > where one might find works by bill bissett, George > > Bowering, bp Nichols, Lisa Robertson, Stuart Ross, and > > other fine Canadian poets. > > > > peace, love and understanding (never give up!) > > > > Steve Petermeier > > no man's land > > minneapolis, mn > > usa > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:41:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 6-26-06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable JUST BUFFALO AND THE ALBRIGHT-KNOX ART GALLERY ANNOUNCE: THE BUFFALO POETRY SLAM CHAMPIONSHIP Friday, July 7, 7 p.m., Clifton Hall, Albright-Knox Art Gallery Admission: =2412, proceeds benefit the Buffalo National Poetry Slam team Ten of the best performance poets Buffalo has to offer are meeting to compe= te for one of four spots on the first ever Buffalo Poetry Slam Team: -- MC Vendetta -- Verneice Turner -- Annette Daniels-Taylor -- Howard Smith -- Kevin Fehr -- Larry Beahan -- Ntare Ali Gault -- Tysheka Long -- vonetta t. rhodes -- Lauren Emmett With your help, the four champions will be sent to The National Poetry Sla= m in Austin, Texas, August 9-12, to compete against 80 other teams of poets in four day= s of verbal battles. Special Guest: three time international poetry slam champion, Buddy Wakefie= ld Host: Gabrielle Bouliane SPOKEN ARTS RADIO, with host Sarah Campbell A joint production of Just Buffalo Literary Center and WBFO 88.7 FM Airs Sundays during Weekend Edition at 8:35 a.m. and Mondays during Morning Edition at 6:35 A.M. & 8:35 a.m. Upcoming Features: July 16 & 17, SPOTLIGHT ON YOUTH OPEN READINGS All shows are now available for download on our website, including features= on John Ashbery, Paul Auster, Lyn Hejinian, Ray Bradbury and more... http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/sar.shtml JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. Call fo= r details. Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in Augu= st if you'd like to join up in the fall. LITERARY BUFFALO THE CELERY FLUTE SHINDY You're invited to the launch and fundraiser for the first issue of Celery Flute: the Kenneth Patchen Newsletter Thursday, June 29, at 7:00 p.m. at Rust Belt Books 202 Allen St. Buffalo, NY 14201 READINGS, MUSIC, JAZZ and POETRY with The Dixieland Grifters, ART AUCTION with readings or works by Michael Basinski, William Sylvester, Kristianne Meal, Isabelle Pelissier, Douglas Manson, Jeff Vincent, Jeannine Giffear, Sue Mischler,and more. . .Cost: Donation of postage stamp= s encouraged, but all contributions graciously accepted. For directions, info= rmation, phone: 716-855-9535 CALL FOR GLBT WRITERS Craig Keller of LDVOICES is trying to organize a pilot GLBT poetry reading= or slam in a local GLBT bar which might POSSIBLY develop into a regular event, since= there is a dearth of local GLBT voices when these events are held in straight bars &= other straight venues. He needs the commitment from GLBT poets & short story wr= iters who want to be on the slate for the first one. Inquires, suggestions & e-m= ail address where he can contact you with date(s) time & location of said event which = will happen if he can show critical mass of interest to bar owners/managers for an even= t like this. Please contact ldvoices=40yahoo.com. Title your message =E2=80=9CRE: G= LBT reading=E2=80=9D. UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:56:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: This is an open apology to ALDON L NIELSEN. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A rare moment in our flame-filled atmosphere -- Thanks Alex -- Now, about that Netherlands/Purtugal matchup -- On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 01:18:45 +0000, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: > A member of this community, I recognize that everyone > has a responsibility to react towards others with > deference, and regardless of what circumstances might > usually arise, and acutely appreciating that > communication is not made possible otherwise. > > About a week ago, and I've been lame due to my hectic > travel schedule and the foolishness with which I live > my life, and this what I'm sharing seems important for > reason of explanation for my disdainful behavior, but > I was, regrettably, very rude to Aldon, my reaction to > his intelligent inquiry best termed as inexcusable. > > To both Aldon L. Nielsen and this community, I > apologize. I hope that a better job will be done next > time I feel impatient, cranky, or otherwise angry with > the world. > > Regards, > Alexander Jorgensen > > --- > Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:05:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Rhode Island Notebook -- Appendix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit [http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com] [This selection from _Rhode Island Notebook_, forthcoming by Dalkey Archive Press, a book I wrote in my car in 25 round trips between Normal, Illinois and Providence, Rhode Island] [anabasis] To learn about oneself Give to others Do not naively confirm The conventional categories Of ordinary experience Let all become one W/ our dusty world An ant rising Out of a bowl “Goes” ah baby ah baby This life is good So let us go This life is good “To a mountaineer a sea voyage is a pleasant and restful change.” -- John Muir “It seemed strange that everyone more or less afflicted [w/ seasickness] should seem ashamed.” -- John Muir Strong, glad life All of us in the brawling traffic Sun-spanglettes in the ditch Tumbling black bag, plastic, inflated In an accident Of wind Rolls, dog sized, along The tan of the concrete Median barrier The world indeed this moment Is kind of a sloppy dock In a broader, happy bay Whose flotsam at night Chips the sky In stripes of flame The taillights towing a chain Of red fire through a tearing fog The road a draggle Of quadrangular quanta “Go where we will, all the world over, we seem to have been there before.” -- John Muir “The world though made is yet being made and this is but the morning of creation.” -- John Muir Jerome Rothenberg Is the John Muir of the word Paints fade Patinas grow Scratches froth Muds puff And we jig still “Most people when they travel only look at what they are directed to look at.” -- John Muir Beautiful mallard blue & red feathers brown head down Dead at confluence of on-ramp With I-80 near Milton PA Noon. Susquehanna River V. high & turbid brown Sometimes rising on a hill it's like All our skin is made of sailcloth, our thighs Of girls, and those books That we keep out of the wind Were of meats concocted -- the pelvis on me Of a tire erected -- there is a bright bridge “If totalitarianism comes to this country, it will almost surely do so in the guise of 100% Americanism.” -- Huey Long Christian Bök and I built a fjord together Marianne Moore sd “It is an honor to have witnessed so much confusion.” It is always an occasion for 2nd chances Woke at 6 Five hrs sleep ITHACA -- Island Kingdom of Odysseus This is a Waterman Phileas Broad nib and Noodler’s black Noodler's Black ink is made by An engineer for Ford named Nathan Tardif Who lives in South Dartmouth, MA As far as I know and He is very patriotic, perhaps even Nationalist, but he makes the best Fountain Pen ink anyone has ever used Makes it in his home can you believe that? Guy's a genius Also best price of any ink ever 7am on road ½ hr low overcast Past dawn in April Empty wet fields filled & seeded Made espresso this morning With fussy chrome espresso pot Farmer City Gibson City There is a group really out there Called “The Righteous Brothers Foundation” Supports the “This I Believe” show On NPR. I reject the Augustinian Formulation “Credo ut intelligam” And recall Confucius’s “A fool Rejects what he sees for what he Thinks A wise person rejects what she thinks For what she sees” “Intelligo ut intelligam”’s a better Formulation for me Little white shack on left labeled St Josephs Sportsmen’s Club Near HOMER Illinois Is at edge of hwy & bunch of Hay bales as a target wall And a shabby shooting cage There is a ratty mist in the sky Danville home of Gene Hackman and Bobby Short the piano prodigy Who talks like he’s from England Lakota means “Alliance of Friends” “Us folks” or “Plains People.” “They call themselves ‘Indian’…. They say they do not want to change Their way of life” – Wm Blackmore The North American Indian, 1869 In the 1760s during the French and Indian War The Ottawa chief Pontiac almost drove The British out of Michigan During the War of 1812 Tecumseh The Shawnee nearly united all the Indians Against the Americans in the Ohio valley But Sitting Bull was not only A great warrior he was a Holy man who had the ability To see into the past and into the future His name in Lakota Teton Was Tatonka Iotakay Considered by his people as a seer A Weechashah Waukahn He was born in 1831 Died in 1890. That same year The US govt declared The frontier no longer existed. The Lakota name for white people was Waséetchoo. Between 1862 and 1890 the US govt fought 11 Indian wars – About 200 separate Military actions: Ambushes, Raids And the chasing down and killing Of fleeing family groups. Some historians believe US troops Killed btw 1776 & 1890 about 4,000 Native Americans by Gunshot or fire or knifing or bayoneting It is estimated by some that Indians May have killed 7000 soldiers And civilians during that same time. Th. Jefferson believed white folk Cd not live on the plains: He was right, in a way: some don’t Call this living. The Choctaw, Creek, & the Chickasaw – And the Cherokee – Were ordered removed from Alabama, Georgia, & Mississippi B/c the whites wanted their land Which they owned outright For the growing of cotton Oklahoma Was to belong to them forever Genl Philip H. Sheridan Who devised the masterplan And coordinated the systematic Genocide of the the plains Indians Wrote in 1878 “The govt made treaties, Gave presents, made promises—none Of which were honestly fulfilled” “We took away their country and then Their means of support, broke up their Mode of living and habits of life, Introduced disease among them—and It was for this, and against this, They made war.” This was the same Soldier Sheridan who fought So viciously in the civil war Sitting Bull stood 5 ft 10 inches Weighed 100 75 pound Had red brown / brown red skin Eyes brown large & white In each eye nestled a great student Each of his eyeballs was a schoolhouse Sitting Bull was a highly confident man He wore 2 long braids He wrapped them in badger skin A badger is a bad animal They are hard to catch and subdue And once you catch one God help you The subduction of a badger is difficult 2 hrs 42 mins enter Indy His buckskin jerkin was ornamented With strands of human hair From hanks of hair of men Whom he had defeated in knife fights 3 hrs 5 minutes exit Indy 1st erection 3 hrs 15 mins 3 hrs 21 stop pee buy vending machine Espresso 50¢ 3:28 on hwy Bright gray altostratus cool day His battle headdress when he wore it Had a hundred feathers in it From the eagles of the Black Hills And the Tetons but mostly he just wore A single feather in his hair Sitting Bull was a primate A great ape He once to a reporter in the west “I see. I know. I began to see Before I was born, when I was Not in my mother’s arms but inside My mother’s belly. It was there That I began to study about my people. The Great Spirit gave me the power To see out of the womb. I studied there in the womb About many things. I was so interested that I Turned over on my side. The Great Spirit must have Told me at that time That I wd be the man to be the judge Of all the other Indians. A big man to decide for them In all their ways.” Warm Glow Candle Co. Outlet Store Country Kitchen: “½ restaurant ½ store: All Country.” “Shelton Fireworks, Shoot the Moon World’s Largest Warehouse” The Lakota had rules of engagement He never broke them. If he had he wd have the lost The respect of his people. The sight of A sick child, any child, Any such child—the child Of a fat lady, the child Of a white lady—the child Of a fat white lady Any such sick child, any child, Brought tears to his eyes Tahtónka Iyotáke Have seen 3 Bush/Cheney stickers In the two parking lots And an a new silver Dodge pickup A Confederate flag bumpersticker That says “Keep it Flyin’” Few trees if any near Dayton Have fully matured leaves A wan unripe green yellow green Poor Poor Kernel George Armstrong Custer For you hath been killed By Tahtónka Iyotáke And his regiment too Little Bighorde, Battle Thereof Sitting Bull never attacked a White settlement. Sitting Bull Always released the white women And the white children In a notebook during the 1860s Sitting Bull drew an autobiography 41 pictures using a crayon Again with a white elder couple In a maroon Buick A burgundy Buick What is it about that car That demographic The 41 pictures matter of factly depict Violent events in Sitting Bull’s life His drawings were signed w/ a Line connecting a seated buffalo To a human head Varment [sic] Guard 794 8169 In the Great Plains alone there Were over 30 different Tribal languages Each w/ multiple dialects 50 miles north of Columbus Few trees in leaf bloom A whole field is stained In blaring dandelions. Near a sign For Schwartenberg Farm Now I come To the breast hip And shoulder hills Of northern Ohio The woman hip hills Amish land hip hill land, land of pig Sausage, juice of loins land Thick nippled women land The superfluity of languages Meant that for trade a Common language of signs and gestures Was invented by the plains Indians Which became the basis Of what is now American Sign Language Tushunkah Weekoh in the Language of the Oglala Lakota Means Untamed Horse But ½ breed interpretors Translated his name as Crazy Horse Often the Whites got things really wrong When they were talking w/ the Indians Such that the name “Man Whose Enemies are Afraid of His Very Horses” Became “Man Afraid of His Own Horses” Thus placing in the names of things Indian Slight denigration Squaw is a word fr the Algonquin meaning Woman whereas the Lakota word for Woman was Wéeñahn. Whites Referred to Lakota women as Squaws. In 1877 Sitting Bull sd “What I am, I am.” Which I guess Was his way of saying He accepts himself & is comfortable With his position in the world This is a Rotring Core fountain pen When he was born the midwife Covered Sitting Bull in bear grease. Lakota parents did not boss Their children or other children the children Sleep when they want eat when They want they were never put To bed, never forced to eat “on time” The Lakota never struck their children Nor did they yell Lakota Babies were not allowed to cry For crying cd learn the enemy to them Grey collapsed barn At junction I-71 / I-76 now just boards Heaped btw the 2 longest walls In the 1600s when the French Jesuits Encountered them the Lakota lived In the parts of Minnesota I grew up in, at, among other places The headwaters of the Mississippi Near now Itasca State Park Which I visited as a boy And thought a swiz They were living Then in timber framed houses A Father Marquette sd They do not attack until attacked And they keep their own word The Creek and Chippewa were Their enemies and the French Trade happened to reach the Chippewa first The Creek first Bringing them thus firearms who made Then war (there again the Daily Monument Gravestone Manufactory 8 hrs 4 mins) driving the Lakota out Of the forests west & south To the valley of the Missouri The journey taking decades And the Lakota separating into 3 Peoples: the Teton, The Santée, and The Yankton groups. Oglala means People who Scatter Their Own Sitting Bull’s family belonged To the band called Itchy-Craw Which means those who laugh At each other. The Lakota Languages contain no swear words. By 1700 the Lakota reached the Missouri 8:18 – 8:24 Stop Pee, walk 8:44 – 8:57 Stop Eat Shenango! River! 9:09 Former radio personality Pappy O’Daniel former gov of TX Was the 1st media personality in US To go into politics preceding Reagan, Sonny Bono, and Schwarzenegger As I pass under bridge 13 m into PA Near Lackawanna Twnship Mid 60s, Sunny, a Large Woodchuck lies on its side Curled up & hugging itself, its Head in its paws, fetal position It obviously fell from the bridge & curled up in pain and died “You – on the road – Must have a code – That you can – live – by – So you can grow Teach – yr children well” “Work is for people Who don’t know how to fish” Allegheny River 9 hr 54 Near Sign: “Welcome to Pennsylvania Wilds” just across Allegheny River bridge James Brown has made a career Out of apoplexy I wonder what that dude’s EEG looks like I believe it is the Hitchcock film “Notorious,” starring the Glorious Ingrid Bergman in which a young James Brown is filmed as a nightclub act Whose onstage apoplexies are “Patronized to” by an eyerolling Obese whiteboy businessman who does not Understand what James Brown is doing The sublimation of Rage The affrontive subversion of Rhapsody On another note “Bad Bad Leroy Brown” Is one of the greatest songs On the earth Also on the Ice Continents and the Waters. An Example of Modern Balladry 3 characteristics of a ballad: 1) Impersonal narrator 2) Simple plot 3) Often based on real events I pity Leroy Brown when he Loses the knife fight Even tho he was so formidable I pity Leroy Brown His loss of life in the fight It is because I am Human! You, you the jailer guard you too Are human! You pity Leroy Brown! I cross again the great Allegheny And pass the smear of coal vein open In the ditch hill on right Surfing channels in PA: In an important and somber tone, “It’s a shame. This comes as A disappointment to many Pittsburgh Pirates fans. As it Should be…” 6pm Eastern 10 hrs 48 minutes NO leaves On trees – the small buds only – At the highest point on I-80 Prior to Edward Bernays A propagandist employed By Woodrow Wilson, toast and coffee Was the typical breakfast – but after Wilson was paid by the AG industry It was eggs & sausage 69 % of all freight in US Is moved by trucks Right now there are 25 % fewer Trucks on the road This cd be an indication That the economy is taking a dive Tonight I will look at the Trucks stops to see if fewer are there Still bright at 12 hrs and Sun behind me, low 7:40 eastern The light behind me comes Thru the car the color of pale Maraschino cherry juice Or the color of light Through lemonade 12 hrs 12 mins the great cliffs Sunset on them like a great orange movie They are near R B Winter State Park The Waterman Phileas again With broad nib Strangely the majority of women I have been lovers with Have been Catholic And the rest atheist Wyoming is Lakota for “Large plain” In the 1520s the Conquistadores Brought horses to the Americas Re-introducing the animal Which had died out here 15000 years ago In the Ice Age Between 1640 & 1770 37 Tribes abandoned farming And began to hunt buffalo full-time With horses. Some of these came from Outside the plains. Lakota boys like to paint Scars on their bodies 14 hrs 43 mins NY state August 17 1862 New Ulm, MN Santee Lakota killed 700 whites September 3 1863 White Stone Hill, MN Cavalry killed 150, captured 156 & burned village (near Monroe) A collection of rocking engines Capture gold A collection of shelves, squirrels Churches, Storms Collection of that stem Collection of ointments Of steam That crooked thrown-out Yodeller at trouts In 1863 (?) near Killdeer Hills, ND Sitting Bull fought whites for 1st time: 2000 soldiers Led by Genl Sully Then Sully went to junction Of Missouri & Yellowstone River & there built Fort Beauford Fanny Kelly: Book My Captivity Among the Sioux Indians Col. George Armstrong Custer Formerly Maj Genl Custer Gave a standing order to His aide that if Indians should attack when Custer was Away, his aide was to Shoot Custer’s wife in the head If her capture Was to seem imminent There was a fort at the Confluence of the Cannonball And Missouri in what wd be North Dakota At this fort (Fort Rice) for several days Sitting Bull ran off its Cattle and ineffectively Harassed its defenses But the soldiers responded W/ cannon & exploding shells A Cpt Rankin At Fort Beauford MT Shot his own wife Afraid she wd be taken As Sitting Bull worried The outside of the fort Sitting Bull never captured the fort As a matter of fact no fort on the plains Was ever captured by Native Americans Cpt Rankin shot his wife too soon “We must act w/ vicious Earnestness against the Sioux. Men, women, children: Even to their extermination.” -- Wm Tecumseh Sherman After the Fetterman Massacre of 1866 Led by Crazy Horse Both Sherman and Sheridan Believed in Total War The targeting not only of combatants But of Civilians RI: 1080 17:43 At one massacre, on the Washutah River Custer killed 93 women & children In Rhode Island & CT & NY When you go to pass a car The other drive will speed up Anywhere from 5 to 15 an hr To prevent you from passing By late 1860s the 750 mile Journey between NYC and Chicago Could be done in 3 days by rail Custer’s job was to stop the Lakota from robbing & sabotaging The Northern Pacific Railroad Which started in Duluth, MN And was planned to extend The valley of the Yellowstone The way to Seattle George Armstrong Custer Was not unlike Geo. W. Bush A very poor student he Graduated last in his class At West Point NY & once Broke into a professor’s office To steal exam questions Following a battle once he shouted “I cannot but exclaim Glorious War!” Custer led haphazard charges Against the Confederates Assuring that his command Suffered more losses than any other Outfit in the Union army [katabasis] Iron in the limestone Rust on the bridges I just stopped in Southbury CT For 2 Boston Creams and a latte M seems less short-tempered around me But is still rude: won’t say “You’re welcome” when I say “thank you” The boy general George W. Custer Received Robert E. Lee’s flag At Appomattox and led the Union Army at its Parade of Triumph In DC. He loved loudly tailored uniforms And ostentatious headware Very like Lord Cardigan “Like a woman” he was very fond Of his hair his hair fell to his shoulders The Indians called him Long Hair He designed his own uniform Custer loved animals tho And was filled often with a buoyancy Resembling joy He had a pet porcupine, pet badger A pet wild turkey, pet beaver A pet prairie dog and a fieldmouse That lived on his desk In an unused inkwell And a pet raccoon And hounds upon hounds upon hounds Houndreds of them Yet for all he loved animals He hated human beings Most specifically black people and Indians And if any subordinates broke his rules He actually ordered them tied up in funny positions And exposed them to flies and gnats Many leaves blooming In the valley of the Hudson His own troops called him Iron Butt On June 18th 1873 he got telegram While at Fort Abraham Lincoln & Left for the Yellowstone country With the 7th Cavalry on Aug 4th Sitting Bull ambushed Custer As he rode ahead of his main force With a 90 man escort Whitey took cover in a riverside copse & Sitting Bull set fire to the tall grass Custer’s ammo ran very low Before the main force arrived In late afternoon 3 hr 30 min PA border Lakota scouts first saw The Black Hills in 1776 They pushed out the Kiowa Felt the place was full of a life Giving energy called Wákan In 1823 Jedediah Smith first White man in Black Hills. In 1873 Pres. Grant orders Genl Sheridan (Mr. Total War) into the Black Hills to Determine if gold was there as the US was suffering from a mini depression Due to bank failures & the idea was More gold was needed but the Fort Laramie Treaty stipulated this Area as a Sioux Reservation Snow making banana shaped dives At my window East of Scranton (in Catskills?) Near Lake Wallenpaupeck Because the Lakota refused To sell the Black Hills Pres. Grant decided To provoke a fight w/ the Lakota 5 hrs 1 to 5 hrs 6 – rest stop In Pennsylvania I see on the right an ancient Dilapidated Chicken house In the rain Use less, window less chicken house Near Mainville / Mifflinville Brown swollen grey-bubbled Susquehanna Berwick Lime Ridge The Indian name for the Battle Of the Little Big Horn Is The Battle of the Greasy Grass The Lakota medicine man Who would come to be known as Black Elk Was there at the Battle Of the Greasy Grass and he Was thirteen Near Limestone new graffito on bridge On 2 pillars in white spray pain 1st pillar: JESUS 2nd pillar: IS GOD MY ENEMIES ARE THE KIND OF PERSONNEL WHO READ ABRIDGED BOOKS (-- if I have enemies -- and if they read at all) OR WHO TRY TO MAKE BOOKS OF BRIDGES Custer’s men & family (some of whom Died with him) all shot themselves In the head or shot or were shot By their comrades After the death of Custer, Sitting Bull Was so feared by Americans that Newspapers surmised he was Probably white – for it was thought An Indian cd not kill a white man Newspapers conjectured Sitting Bull Was in fact a renegade white man Who spoke English, German, French & Chinese fluently. It was first the newspaper Editors who suggested That the government should deliberately spread Smallpox among Native Americans Custer, like Genl Grant, from Ohio A town called New Rumly “The only good Indians I ever saw Were dead.” -- Genl Sheridan “We’re making off for Sitting Bull And this is the way we go: 40 miles a day on beans and hay In the regular army, O!” On May 6 1877 Sitting Bull Led 889 people & 12000 Horses into captivity at Camp Robinson Nebraska On bridge near Philipsburg PA In black paint “I LOVE SHERRY” I loved sherry too, a cheap Drink fr. Juarez Spain W/ high alcohol content But no longer do I – you Can have her Mr. Bridge Painter Next Bridge: mixed words from Succeeding generations of graffitiists But near the surface of the Layers of tangled words this phrase “Mad Dog Love” something something 7 hrs: 452 miles: 64.57 mph Strange but patchy snow on ground In woods to rt and sm. buds on trees It was in this state, Pennsylvania In 1871 that a tannery company Found a way to make quality Leather out of Buffalo hide As leather was always in need For furniture, clothes and drivebelts (We forget that our rubber drive belts Were once leather) and at This time the real slaughter of Buffalo Started. The term “sharpshooter”comes From buffalo huntingkilling. The Sharps Was a rifle, a big game rifle in that it Shot a shell 2 ½” long It could kill a buffalo at 1500 yards Native Americans said of it “It shoots today – and kills tomorrow” THE IDIOT Joseph Wright Moore killed 20500 In 9 years – a Record Btw 1872 & 1873 the buffalo Was wiped out of Kansas Then they moved into Texas The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Was founded as a result of the Buffalo slaughter In 1866. The army encouraged The destruction of the buffalo Because it would hasten The extermination of Native Americans 8 hrs: 507 miles: 63.38mph Mr. Total War G W Bush Genl Sheridan sd “These men [buffalo hunters] Have done more in the last 2 yrs To settle the Indian question Than the entire regular army Has done in the last 30 years. They are destroying the Indian commissary.” And sd they shd all get medals It is for this reason that Pres. Grant Vetoed a preservation bill Passed by Congress. “The sooner the Indian Loses all his Indian ways, including His language, the better it will be for him And for the government.” – Richard H. Pratt, Principle of Carlyle Indian School, 1883 Tuesday July 19 1881 Fort Beauford MT Sitting Bull surrendered with 187 children & women “I wish it to be remembered that I was the last man of my tribe To surrender my rifle.” The first white town Sitting Bull visited Was Bismarck ND – August 1 1881 He ate ice cream in the Sheridan House Hotel. Genl Sheridan being the one who Made the equation btw Good Indians and the deceased ones. My little daughter Clio Named after the muse of history Talks so much she is a selfdescribed motormouth At 9 hours I cross the 6pm beautiful Shenango River under Dark swirled clouds mottled in sun And the Shenango swollen brown Puffy out of its banks. The Lakota word for cattle was Wohl-Haw from hearing Cowboys say this: Whoa (stop) & Haw (go) The Bureau of Indian Affairs Banned the Lakota from Practicing their religions thus Denying them their rights to Religious Freedom, banned the Sun Dance The motto of the Carlyle School A boarding school near here, in Carlyle PA was “Kill the Indian To save the Man.” During the summer of 1855, 150 yrs Ago this summer, Sitting Bull Joined the touring show of Wild Bill Cody Visiting NYC Philadelphia & DC He gave most of his money To white beggars in the cities & sd “The white man knows how to Make everything, but he does not Know how to distribute it” Strange long series of very white snow On rt hills mid Ohio 685 miles So late in April & warm In the light’s lee. And then more very white snow Near Mohican State Park With orange light splashing sundown Over everything from just above The right treeline I am traveling south I shall read Carlos Castaneda And wear a bong in my hair I will approach the days Of the old mothers Who stand in the unassailable girdles On such incomparable marbles At fairs in rain At fairs in sun “The gateway to the Buddha’s Teaching is sadness, sorrow, and grief. He does not encourage these emotions: He encourages awareness of these emotions…. The awareness of suffering & sorrow Is the 1st noble step.” “The capacity to face pain has been A virtue in every single culture – Except for modern America." -- Paul R. Fleischman, MD _______________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:21:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Economics or? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henry Miller used to write on Telegraph's (am I right about the company?) time. The Harry Potter lady used to do the same. Is it economics, or is it the fear of that complete commitment? Risky, but it might make us better writers. On the verge, Larissa Larissa Shmailo 253 West 72nd Street #715 New York, NY 10023 212/712-9865 slidingsca@aol.com http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo larissashmailo.blogspot.com ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:23:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Byrne Interview In-Reply-To: <000401c69924$0a23f980$8584ec04@jah> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MiPOesias poet, Mairead Byrne [http://www.mipoesias.com/Interviews/byrne_mairead_interviewwithwiseoldman2006.html and http://www.mipoesias.com/2006Volume20Issue1/byrne.html], in a brief, revealing interview on YouTube: "The Poet's View" -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVuwscleO7I Enjoy! --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:48:46 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: resistance MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The mother of one of the martyrs killed in the operation on the Israeli military post said that her son took part in this after seeing Israel's daily massacres against Palestinians. "Each young man watches what is going on and what is happening to his people. So when you can offer your people something that could raise their morale and preserve their dignity it's illogical that you don't act." http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/807 ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "They want to see us breathless. We will not be. They want to see us tired. We refuse to be. They want to see what our strength is. We will not show it in advance. We will continuously surprise them." -- Julia Wright \ \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation."\ --patrick o'neil\ \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor"\ --harry belafonte\ \ "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad\ \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php\ \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php\ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:52:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allison Thomas Subject: New In Poetics from the University of Iowa Press Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed We are proud to announce the University of Iowa Press's Contemporary =20 North American Poetry series. Acquired from the University of Wisconsin Press, this series =20 documents, analyzes, and seeks to sustain the many exciting and =20 diverse developments in North American poetry since the 1950s by =20 publishing critical studies of recent poetry, collections of essays =20 on poetics, and biographies of individual poets or groups of poets as =20= well as correspondence and memoirs. Its aim is to represent a =20 variety of contemporary aesthetics and to illuminate ongoing debates =20 about the material forms and contexts of recent poetry. The series editors are Alan Golding, Lynn Keller, and Adalaide Morris. Introducing the first titles in the CNAP series: Frank O'Hara: The Poetics of Coterie by Lytle Shaw Gary Snyder and the Pacific Rim: Creating Countercultural Community by Timothy Gray And coming this fall: Industrial Poetics: Demo Tracks for a Mobile Culture by Joe Amato History, Memory, and the Literary Left: Modern American Poetry, 1935=96=20= 1968 by John Lowney For more information please visit our website: http://www.uiowapress.org/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Allison Thomas Assistant Marketing Manager University of Iowa Press 119 West Park Road Iowa City, IA 52242 (ph) 319/335-2015 (fax) 319/335-2055 allison-thomas@uiowa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:58:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Judith Roche Subject: Re: one-year visiting faculty In-Reply-To: <000401c69924$0a23f980$8584ec04@jah> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sharon, This might be a good thing for you, or are you going to continue at New College? I'm being offered enough work here and I really don't want to leave my kids for a year. Especially Robin, but especially all of them. How is it now? You must be done with the school year. How did it go? I'm teaching at City University this summer, and possibly in the fall, then Seattle U in the spring. I thought I was going to "retire" but I guess not yet. love, Jud --- derekrogerson wrote: > Cleveland, Ohio > > The Department of English in the College of Arts and > Sciences at Case > Western Reserve University seeks a creative writer > with experience > teaching poetry for a one-year visiting appointment > at the rank of > lecturer, visiting instructor, or visiting assistant > professor, > depending on qualifications, for all or part of the > academic year > 2006-2007. > > Compensation commensurate with rank. 5-6 courses per > year. MFA required. > (Possible preference for a candidate qualified to > teach African American > or ethnic literature.) > > Electronic application consisting of a letter of > application and c.v. > to: > > William R. Siebenschuh, Chair > mailto:william.siebenschuh@case.edu > > All applications received by July 15, 2006 will > receive full > consideration. > > diversity = aa/eoe, women or minorities > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:01:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Judith Roche Subject: sorry, folks In-Reply-To: <000401c69924$0a23f980$8584ec04@jah> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry. That was an email slip. I meant to forward a personal messsage, not send it to the whole discussion group world. I hate it when that happens! Judith --- derekrogerson wrote: > Cleveland, Ohio > > The Department of English in the College of Arts and > Sciences at Case > Western Reserve University seeks a creative writer > with experience > teaching poetry for a one-year visiting appointment > at the rank of > lecturer, visiting instructor, or visiting assistant > professor, > depending on qualifications, for all or part of the > academic year > 2006-2007. > > Compensation commensurate with rank. 5-6 courses per > year. MFA required. > (Possible preference for a candidate qualified to > teach African American > or ethnic literature.) > > Electronic application consisting of a letter of > application and c.v. > to: > > William R. Siebenschuh, Chair > mailto:william.siebenschuh@case.edu > > All applications received by July 15, 2006 will > receive full > consideration. > > diversity = aa/eoe, women or minorities > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:35:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Linden Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >How does being a librarian not resonate with the idea of poetry??? > >-Dan -- --there's Borges' _Library of Babel_ of course -- and the idea of invisibility -- --i haven't peeled potatoes for a living because we didn't peel them where i'm from -- scrubbed them tho -- would have bought a little orchard to run but was told and i quote 'think of the worst job you've ever had' by an authority -jen _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:48:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Linden Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed was told and i quote 'think of the worst job >you've ever had' by an authority ---a dirt farmer who subsequently based on life long knowledge of apples convinced me to teach as an adjunct -- actually the orchard would have been steadier work >-jen _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:57:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I come from orchard country, and worked in orchards from age about 12, and I can tell you that I have since worked in a lot worse jobs. gb On 26-Jun-06, at 11:35 AM, Jen Linden wrote: >> How does being a librarian not resonate with the idea of poetry??? >> >> -Dan > > -- > > --there's Borges' _Library of Babel_ of course -- and the idea of=20 > invisibility -- > > --i haven't peeled potatoes for a living because we didn't peel them=20= > where i'm from -- scrubbed them tho -- would have bought a little=20 > orchard to run but was told and i quote 'think of the worst job you've=20= > ever had' by an authority > > -jen > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar =96 get it now!=20 > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > George Bowering, M.A. Once saw Marianne Moore plain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:09:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Press Preview - July 2 at 5 PM till 8 PM - Tribes Gallery Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Hey, everyone, I'm hoping that some of you can come by for the "Press-Only" preview of my = show at Tribes gallery in NYC. I'm looking for people who will want to revi= ew the show for any publication. Back Channel if anyone wants to help make this nobody a somebody for a litt= le while! Christophe Casamassima furniture_press@graffiti.net --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 21:31:11 +0100 Reply-To: wild honey press Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wild honey press Subject: Re: Byrne Interview MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this is cool! thank for posting the links Randolph ----- Original Message ----- From: "amy king" To: Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 6:23 PM Subject: Byrne Interview > MiPOesias poet, Mairead Byrne > [http://www.mipoesias.com/Interviews/byrne_mairead_interviewwithwiseoldman2006.html > and http://www.mipoesias.com/2006Volume20Issue1/byrne.html], in a brief, > revealing interview on YouTube: > > "The Poet's View" -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVuwscleO7I > > Enjoy! > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > __________ NOD32 1.1625 (20060626) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:35:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kenneth Wolman Subject: Re: Economics or? In-Reply-To: <8C8675C1BB6D21E-7DC-B3E@MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larissa Shmailo wrote: > Henry Miller used to write on Telegraph's (am I right about the company?) time. The Harry Potter lady used to do the same. Is it economics, or is it the fear of that complete commitment? Risky, but it might make us better writers. > > On the verge, > Larissa > I'm not supposed to "approve" of stealing time from an employer. Tsk-tsk and all that stuff. However, I am grateful to this day that AT&T ran such a slack operation that I had the chance to learn some elements of a craft I shall never really "get." Wasn't J. K. Rowling on the dole before she hit it big with the Potter books? So I've heard, anyway. Friend on the W. Coast said if I'm going to read any of the Potter books, get the British editions because the American ones have been gutted. Apparently the publishers think American kids and teens are morons lacking attention spans or the ability to concentrate on an idea. ken -- -------------------- Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com "I think men who have a pierced ear are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought jewelry." - Rita Rudner "Whenever I date a guy I think, "Is this the man I want my children to spend their weekends with?" - Rita Rudner ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 23:41:10 +0100 Reply-To: wild honey press Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wild honey press Subject: Fw: QUID 17: J.H. Prynne Festschrift MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keston Sutherland" To: Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: QUID 17: J.H. Prynne Festschrift > I'm orange and equable, I'm talking about the publication of: > > Q U I D 17 > For J.H. Prynne > A Celebration > > A special issue: perfect bound, 100pp., critical responses to the work of > J.H. Prynne from the 1960s to today, by: > > Tom Raworth, Josh Robinson, Peter Middleton, Hans Thill, Alizon Brunning & > Robin Purves, Peter Riley, Matt Ffytche, Kate Fagan, John Wilkinson, D.S. > Marriott, Jow Lindsay, Peter Manson, Jeremy Noel-Tod, Simon Perril, Ian > Patterson, Peter Minter, Michael Haslam, John Hall, Keston Sutherland, > Ruth Abbott, Rod Mengham, Marjorie Welish, Ulf Stolterfoht, Will Poole, > Andrea Brady, Robert Potts, Out To Lunch, William Fuller, Mazen Himyari > and John Kinsella. > > Where it is: http://www.barquepress.com/ > > You can buy one of them for ten pounds online. Please, please do that. > It's a very great read. > > Waiting with my pen and envelopes, K > > > __________ NOD32 1.1620 (20060624) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:39:45 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: [TheBlackList] Announcing : Polygamy book written by Mama Khandi MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Everyone, We are glad to announce the new book by Mama Khandi titled, Polygamy an Afrikan Centered Life thru Poetry, Essays, Articles and Commentaries... http://www.geocities.com/khandipages3/polygamy_book/ A full copy of the FORWARD written by brotha Bankole from Exhile in europe, is included along with links to free online access to one essay interview and a poem excerpt from the book... enjoy and thanx for purchasing the book... purchase can be made either in person, by snail mail or by internet paypal enjoy the read! queen mama khandi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:54:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Rhode Island Notebook -- Appendix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/26/06 1:06:30 PM, gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU writes: > [http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com] > > [This selection from _Rhode Island Notebook_, forthcoming by Dalkey > Archive Press, a book I wrote in my car in 25 round trips between > Normal, Illinois and Providence, Rhode Island] > > > > I remember when you were sending sections from it to the Poetics List. Ciao, Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:02:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Economics or? In-Reply-To: <44A04524.1000506@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I've read them so I could have book talks about them with my niece who adores rowling. when i looked in to that whole british vs. american version stuff, deciding which versions to read and what not, it seemed a bit melodramatic to say that one is better than the other. I certainly wouldn't say that they were gutted. based on my unscientific comparison, the changes were mostly cosmetic and primarily had to do with UK English vs. US English and one or two cultural touchpoints. just standard "holiday" changed to "vacation" and "notes" changed to "bills" kind of stuuf. On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Kenneth Wolman wrote: > Larissa Shmailo wrote: >> Henry Miller used to write on Telegraph's (am I right about the company?) >> time. The Harry Potter lady used to do the same. Is it economics, or is it >> the fear of that complete commitment? Risky, but it might make us better >> writers. >> On the verge, >> Larissa >> > I'm not supposed to "approve" of stealing time from an employer. Tsk-tsk and > all that stuff. However, I am grateful to this day that AT&T ran such a slack > operation that I had the chance to learn some elements of a craft I shall never > really "get." > > Wasn't J. K. Rowling on the dole before she hit it big with the Potter books? > So I've heard, anyway. > > Friend on the W. Coast said if I'm going to read any of the Potter books, get > the British editions because the American ones have been gutted. Apparently > the publishers think American kids and teens are morons lacking attention spans > or the ability to concentrate on an idea. > > ken > > > -- > -------------------- > Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com > > "I think men who have a pierced ear are better prepared for marriage. They've > experienced pain and bought jewelry." - Rita Rudner > "Whenever I date a guy I think, "Is this the man I want my children to spend > their weekends with?" - Rita Rudner > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 20:05:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/26/06 1:50:34 PM, ishaq1824@SHAW.CA writes: > The mother of one of the martyrs killed in the operation on the Israeli > military post said that her son took part in this after seeing Israel's > daily massacres against Palestinians. "Each young man watches what is > going on and what is happening to his people. So when you can offer > your people something that could raise their morale and preserve their > dignity it's illogical that you don't act." > Give me a break. Does a mother whose child has died really say that? What is happening there is horrible enough, without adding a rhetorical obscenity. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:54:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: new issue of PoetrySz Comments: To: Women Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi, Issue 20 of PoetrySz: demystifying mental illness is now online at http://poetrysz.blogspot.com . It features work by Japanese cyberpunk writer Kenji Siratori, Australian poet Christopher Kelen, English poet Christopher Barnes, and New Zealand expat singer-songwriter/poet Ben Kemp. Submissions for subsequent issues are welcome. Send 4-6 poems, along with a short bio, in the body of your email to poetrysz@yahoo.com . Thanks. regards Jill Chan editor, PoetrySz http://poetrysz.blogspot.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 20:28:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: July Issue Chicago Postmodernpoetry.com Profiles of Glomski and Archembeau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New July 2006 issue Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com Poetic Profiles New Profiles of Chicago area poets Robert Archembeau & Chris Glomski New Column What I am Reading Column The Chicago and Region Readings Calendar for July and August Please Keep checking back for our August issue which will feature Poetic Profiles of Brenda Iijima and Bob Marcacci In September a Special issue with a Poetic Profile of Jerome Rothenberg, fall book reviews and the Autumn reading calendars for Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, South Bend and tbe Region Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:34:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: THIS TUESDAY, support First Lieutenant Ehren Watada for REFUSING TO GO TO IRAQ In-Reply-To: <51e.1ae7c1c.31d0af27@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > Details on this Tuesday's day of international show of support: > _http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_phillysound_archive.html#115118476 > 223434903_ > (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_phillysound_archive.html#115118476223434903) > > > > Also, on the website: http://www.thankyoult.org/ Cool posters there too. pn -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 Slaughter, WA 98001 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 22:45:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Marzahl, Kevin M" Subject: Brat Gut Check: A Semi-Automatic Micro-Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brat Gut Check: A Semi-Automatic Micro-Review =93There is not narcissism and non-narcissism; there are narcissisms that are more or less comprehensive, generous, open, extended.=94^1^ =93It is better to do nothing than to contribute to the invention of formal ways of rendering visible that which Empire recognizes as existent.=94^2^ =93For an even greater sense of estrangement, I might call myself a member of the avant-garde.=94^3^ Hello My Name Is. What is it to consume an incisive book we will be reading for years? What will have been the consequences for the art of scholarship--especially on =93a site where the radical strategies of the avant-garde have continued in a form of intersubjective dialogue=94 (94)--of Barrett Watten=92s _The Constructivist Moment_? The postmodern condition, says Antin, is have we gotten the right mixmaster?^4^ Sometimes I need Ambien. Hello it is 5:19 P.M. You want to say =93facile=94 or worse but you might want to sleep on your horror and fascination. I am old enough now to make friends. *Centrifugal/Centripetal Blogging flees a paradigmatic form of multiauthorship. Rolls and rings are alibis and parasitical critical potential is foreclosed by the epithet =93troll=94 as blurbs preempt but really prompt disinterest. Adjust to the taste of your own centering meds. Will the potential of the Poetics Listserv=96-something like a kommunalka=96-have been exhausted going through overdetermined motions? Does Watten accidentally confuse centrifugal and centripetal on the bottom of p.87? How should we read the book=92s sole typo: the elision of a lower-case =93I=94 in =93defamiliarzing=94 (124)? WordPerfect will not allow me to type a lower-case I. Reading slips in concert. Watten prefers a screensaver called =93Psychomotor.=94 I would buy all your wares save for not having made a living wage but one year in the last ten and this at a Research I institution where contracts for basketball coaches include new cars and trustees heedless of the city approve a new parking garage. In stOOpidgErL=92s photographs, social reality put into production creates psychotropic effects. Understandable confusion and =93delusional modes of organizing reality=94 (307), agents of the letter coming and going at once on everybody=92s Mobius strip. *Entailments of the Free Radical Watten proposes the free radical as an analogy (analogies good, homologies bad [153-157], as college Buffy recovering from devolutionary binge drinking might say) for the vanguard, but the analogy is constrained by the stabilizing effect of Webster=92s (an effect conspicuously challenged by Ch. 1). The domain of conventional knowledge evoked by free radicals, however, is considerably larger and no arbitrary constraint can prevent its activation. I set aside the question of the accuracy of such conventional wisdom, since that domain is neither univocal nor stable (as witness the recent overturning of a century of conventional wisdom regarding lactic acid which, it turns out, has its roots in a faulty experiment on severed frog legs); true or not, contested or not, the knowledge will be triggered for some readers. Who desires and why an image of the vanguard as the driving force of aging, as an aggressive agent of cellular degeneration, as well-nigh pathological? Is =93intensely interacting=94 a euphemism (134)? = Who discerns the inexistence of an antioxidant multiauthorfunction? *Above All Do Not Mistake Me Language practices are not to be confused with or reduced, by the mechanism of cliche, to =93open works.=94 Do not encourage the already =93widespread folk theory of nonnarrative writing [first typed =93wiring=94= ]=94 (203). This could save us all many empty hours over years of conferences. Ditto =93writerly ascesis=94 (179). It was evident to me a decade ago that the situation was superstatic. The monologism of the single-author utterance seems to me consistently overstated. Have you ever been bored in Louisville? The only citation of Juliana Spahr is of her contribution to a Poetics Listserv discussion about Hejinian=92s =93deen.=94 I wonder if people taalk about me seecretly. Note the shift from first- to third-person and back out again in his discussion of =93Non-Events=94 (86). As is well known, an author-function=92s descriptio= n of another author-function=92s style re-entered proves illuminating. Watten is not to the nervousness of some afflicted with the MeMe of critical nervousness. Many have worked through the fantasy of Second World internal exile. Distal sites sustain =93_the_ point of production=94= (106, emphasis added). Salient images include combine harvesters, sugar beets littering highways like dead rats, me and Ralston putting Meyerhold to work. Is self-exercitation=96-the index to =93Watten, Barrett=94 runs a baker=92s dozen lines=96-in the service of a cultural poetics (whatever happened to Tartu?) a prerequisite or a prerogative? What prevents, after the parallel cataclysms, nonmetropolitan vanguards? One imagines translating selected paragraphs into BASIC; or an analysis of the punctual, accretive, nodal, and circular organization of nonconcepts in Watten=92s serial nonnarratives; or his violent shifts =93between philosophical discourse, popular culture, historical reference, and idiosyncratic formulation=94 (240), but that way lies bad infinity. I know from =93a minute outside the Symbolic Order=94 (273). *He would show you his map (Lakoff v. Lacan) The cognitive mapping of the commute from Bloomfield Hills to Wayne State is absolutely brilliant full disclosure. =93high-end processing=94 (14). He could I have heard recently and bent ears in turn be walking to work but it was not believe you up to me in fact all that micropoliticking heightens my burning disinterest. =93increased load=94 (24). By all means it is time for a Real conversation about the cult of the automobile. =93source text/target form=94 (30-32). If the abstract= is accepted, I will talk about Olson=92s station wagon; if not, I will talk about it anyway (=93No layoff / from this / condensery=94!). =93unconscious processes work, at a linguistic level, to destabilize and reconfigure positionality=94 (71). Did you laugh at the Monty Python endnote? =93impossible to undertake such a mapping apart from the cognitive processing=94 (132). I value the singular texture of the unrepeatable reading experience but as is well known structure will tell. =93real-time cognitive processes that cannot possibly match with possibilities of interpretation except in overdetermined associations of fantasy=94 (138). There is a second typo: a reversed apostrophe in Heidegger=92s possession (249). =93they demand cognition=94 (166). The passage through phenomenology is necessary, cannot be performed by one generation for the next, must be repeated, and cannot be abbreviated. Must the West go through the process of choosing between a cognitivist and a psychoanalytic unconscious? Does One comprehend the Other? Poetry, as Juliana Spahr notes, changes brains.^5^ From what kernel the fantasy of a middle way? Please describe in as direct a manner as possible the ethical entailments of a Lacanian pedagogy practiced widely by a corporation of masters and disciples. Bloomington, IN | 26 June 2006 | CC: Attribution, Noncommercial, ShareAlike Notes 1. Jacques Derrida, =93On Narcissism.=94 _Points_ (Stanford UP, 1995): 199= . 2. Alain Badiou, =93Fifteen Theses on Contemporary Art=94 3. Barrett Watten, _The Constructivist Moment_ (Wesleyan UP, 2003):149. 4. David Antin, =93the theory and practice of postmodernism=96a manifesto= =94 _i never knew what time it was_ (U of California P, 2005): 10. 5. =93Paper for UCSC panel on Poetry and Crisis, April 2004.=94 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:08:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Linden Subject: Re: Economic message In-Reply-To: <05FDCF9C-054E-11DB-B08C-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I apologise for the hateful comment on orchards grandparents grew apples for 25 years -- Olav Hauge -- Norwegian apple grower and poet my apologiez jen _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:07:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Halle Subject: Jules Gibbs on Seven Corners Comments: To: Adam Fieled , Alex Frankel , Anne Waldman , Becky Hilliker , Bhisham Bherwani , Bill Garvey , Bob Archambeau , "Bowen, Kristy" , brandihoman@hotmail.com, cahnmann@uga.edu, Cathy Rodriguez , "Chapman, Joanne" , chard deNiord , Cheryl Keeler , Chris Glomski , Chris Goodrich , Christian DuFour , Craig Halle , Daniel Godston , Dan Pedersen , DAVID PAVELICH , Diana Collins , Didi Menendez , ela kotkowska , "f.lord@snhu.edu" , Garin Cycholl , heather pearl , Ira Sadoff , Jacqueline Cox , Jacqueline Gens , James DeFrain , Jay Rubin , jeffgrybash@hotmail.com, Jenn Monroe , jeremy@invisible-city.com, John Krumberger , John McGlothlin , JOHN TIPTON , Judith Vollmer , Jules Gibbs , Julianna McCarthy , "K. R." , Kate Doane , Kristin Prevallet , "Lea C. Deschenes" , "lesliesysko@hotmail.com" , Malia Hwang-Carlos , Marie U , MartinD , Mark Tardi , Michael OLeary , Michael Waters , Michelle Taransky , Monica Halle , "Odelius, Kristy Lee" , pba1@surewest.net, pen@splab.org, Randolph Healy , Ross Gay , Rick Wishcamper , Simone Muench , timothy daisy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Please check out five new poems by *Jules Gibbs* on *Seven Corners* ( www.sevencornerspoetry.blogspot.com). The poems featured the first publications for this Madison, WI poet. Best, Steve Halle Editor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:34:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Economics or? In-Reply-To: <44A04524.1000506@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I couldn't exercise my commitment to writing if I didn't have a place to write and eat. This cost money that I have never in my life been able to earn from writing. Taking a job was a matter of necessity, not a lack of commitment to a life decision I made at age 15. Most of us don't have the means to survive without some kind of job, no matter how much time we want to spend writing. Has anyone tried to get their car engine rebuilt with two complimentary copies of the magazine in which their latest poem has been published? In 45 years of writing, some of it free-lancing for newspapers, I don't think I've earned enough to cover my rent, food and other basic survival expenses for longer than one month in any year of my life. Like Henry Miller, like many others on the List, I've had to work a job I hated. I found ways to do the job quickly and efficiently so that I could have the time to write on what I referred to as "my unofficial government grant." I still think the employer got more money out of me--in work and "cultural contributions"---than they got from most of their other employees. The only people I know who had a "total commitment" to writing, had trust funds, rich daddies or a partner who would support them. I wouldn't have objected to any of these, but they weren't available to me. Now I have an early pension and no job to create an inaccurate perception of my commitment to writing. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Kenneth Wolman Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 4:36 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Economics or? Larissa Shmailo wrote: > Henry Miller used to write on Telegraph's (am I right about the company?) time. The Harry Potter lady used to do the same. Is it economics, or is it the fear of that complete commitment? Risky, but it might make us better writers. > > On the verge, > Larissa > I'm not supposed to "approve" of stealing time from an employer. Tsk-tsk and all that stuff. However, I am grateful to this day that AT&T ran such a slack operation that I had the chance to learn some elements of a craft I shall never really "get." Wasn't J. K. Rowling on the dole before she hit it big with the Potter books? So I've heard, anyway. Friend on the W. Coast said if I'm going to read any of the Potter books, get the British editions because the American ones have been gutted. Apparently the publishers think American kids and teens are morons lacking attention spans or the ability to concentrate on an idea. ken -- -------------------- Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com "I think men who have a pierced ear are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought jewelry." - Rita Rudner "Whenever I date a guy I think, "Is this the man I want my children to spend their weekends with?" - Rita Rudner ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:20:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Beautiful screengrabs from The Black River .::. Xanax Pop, by Lewis LaCook Comments: To: lewis@corporatepa.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Beautiful screengrabs propagate conflagrations, where glass is the slowest liquid we know. Late June sweat sweetens us, timorous among these dark caul afternoons, turning us cold, hinting that there's something to us. Maybe the sun won't rise tomorrow; maybe our books wil lavish into dust. The vindictive fence propriety on West Twenty-fourth street; their eyes are as muddy as The Black River, slipping into lakes. I caught television from buying anchors there, and now I sign my name as a ratio *************************************************************************** ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... || http://www.corporatepa.com || Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting Corporate Performance Artists --------------------------------- Open multiple messages at once with the all new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:40:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Re: Economics or? In-Reply-To: <20060627173437.IYEB29624.ibm56aec.bellsouth.net@vernon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The point I was trying to make is that both Miller and the Potter author were willling to get fired---and both did, in fact--in order to pursue their writing. Which sets then apart. Neither was thinking about a place to live, or clothes, or even food. THEY WROTE, period. And that risk, I think, made them writers. Larissa Shmailo 253 West 72nd Street #715 New York, NY 10023 212/712-9865 slidingsca@aol.com http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo larissashmailo.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: Vernon Frazer To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:34:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Economics or? I couldn't exercise my commitment to writing if I didn't have a place to write and eat. This cost money that I have never in my life been able to earn from writing. Taking a job was a matter of necessity, not a lack of commitment to a life decision I made at age 15. Most of us don't have the means to survive without some kind of job, no matter how much time we want to spend writing. Has anyone tried to get their car engine rebuilt with two complimentary copies of the magazine in which their latest poem has been published? In 45 years of writing, some of it free-lancing for newspapers, I don't think I've earned enough to cover my rent, food and other basic survival expenses for longer than one month in any year of my life. Like Henry Miller, like many others on the List, I've had to work a job I hated. I found ways to do the job quickly and efficiently so that I could have the time to write on what I referred to as "my unofficial government grant." I still think the employer got more money out of me--in work and "cultural contributions"---than they got from most of their other employees. The only people I know who had a "total commitment" to writing, had trust funds, rich daddies or a partner who would support them. I wouldn't have objected to any of these, but they weren't available to me. Now I have an early pension and no job to create an inaccurate perception of my commitment to writing. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Kenneth Wolman Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 4:36 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Economics or? Larissa Shmailo wrote: > Henry Miller used to write on Telegraph's (am I right about the company?) time. The Harry Potter lady used to do the same. Is it economics, or is it the fear of that complete commitment? Risky, but it might make us better writers. > > On the verge, > Larissa > I'm not supposed to "approve" of stealing time from an employer. Tsk-tsk and all that stuff. However, I am grateful to this day that AT&T ran such a slack operation that I had the chance to learn some elements of a craft I shall never really "get." Wasn't J. K. Rowling on the dole before she hit it big with the Potter books? So I've heard, anyway. Friend on the W. Coast said if I'm going to read any of the Potter books, get the British editions because the American ones have been gutted. Apparently the publishers think American kids and teens are morons lacking attention spans or the ability to concentrate on an idea. ken -- -------------------- Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com "I think men who have a pierced ear are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought jewelry." - Rita Rudner "Whenever I date a guy I think, "Is this the man I want my children to spend their weekends with?" - Rita Rudner ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:46:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: simlpe Economics or? In-Reply-To: <8C86830462B6A49-104C-23F@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit both these writers are novelist - and there is differences - when you write poetry and breathe poetry and can't string a novel together then you need a day job (my book is great and has been review 5 times in the year after it was published - i don't think any of that shit generated one sale) but i would recommend stealing time and supplies and xeroxing (my zine is print in my office) from the job - it's only fair - your bosses would do the same to you and most likely do worst it's the poets job to steal words lines and time and whatever you can get away with Larissa Shmailo wrote: The point I was trying to make is that both Miller and the Potter author were willling to get fired---and both did, in fact--in order to pursue their writing. Which sets then apart. Neither was thinking about a place to live, or clothes, or even food. THEY WROTE, period. And that risk, I think, made them writers. Larissa Shmailo 253 West 72nd Street #715 New York, NY 10023 212/712-9865 slidingsca@aol.com http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo larissashmailo.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: Vernon Frazer To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:34:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Economics or? I couldn't exercise my commitment to writing if I didn't have a place to write and eat. This cost money that I have never in my life been able to earn from writing. Taking a job was a matter of necessity, not a lack of commitment to a life decision I made at age 15. Most of us don't have the means to survive without some kind of job, no matter how much time we want to spend writing. Has anyone tried to get their car engine rebuilt with two complimentary copies of the magazine in which their latest poem has been published? In 45 years of writing, some of it free-lancing for newspapers, I don't think I've earned enough to cover my rent, food and other basic survival expenses for longer than one month in any year of my life. Like Henry Miller, like many others on the List, I've had to work a job I hated. I found ways to do the job quickly and efficiently so that I could have the time to write on what I referred to as "my unofficial government grant." I still think the employer got more money out of me--in work and "cultural contributions"---than they got from most of their other employees. The only people I know who had a "total commitment" to writing, had trust funds, rich daddies or a partner who would support them. I wouldn't have objected to any of these, but they weren't available to me. Now I have an early pension and no job to create an inaccurate perception of my commitment to writing. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Kenneth Wolman Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 4:36 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Economics or? Larissa Shmailo wrote: > Henry Miller used to write on Telegraph's (am I right about the company?) time. The Harry Potter lady used to do the same. Is it economics, or is it the fear of that complete commitment? Risky, but it might make us better writers. > > On the verge, > Larissa > I'm not supposed to "approve" of stealing time from an employer. Tsk-tsk and all that stuff. However, I am grateful to this day that AT&T ran such a slack operation that I had the chance to learn some elements of a craft I shall never really "get." Wasn't J. K. Rowling on the dole before she hit it big with the Potter books? So I've heard, anyway. Friend on the W. Coast said if I'm going to read any of the Potter books, get the British editions because the American ones have been gutted. Apparently the publishers think American kids and teens are morons lacking attention spans or the ability to concentrate on an idea. ken -- -------------------- Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com "I think men who have a pierced ear are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought jewelry." - Rita Rudner "Whenever I date a guy I think, "Is this the man I want my children to spend their weekends with?" - Rita Rudner ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:50:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: simlpe Economics or? In-Reply-To: <20060627194657.9420.qmail@web88111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed It's funny, y'know, that poet/novelist distinction and I know exactly what you mean. I write poetry. I've also written novel length fiction although it has yet to see the light of day. what i find impossible to write are short stories. as for finding places to write at work i have to say that I think USB thumb drives are the best thing that has ever happened to writers. On Tue, 27 Jun 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > both these writers are novelist - and there is differences - when you write poetry and breathe poetry and can't string a novel together then you need a day job (my book is great and has been review 5 times in the year after it was published - i don't think any of that shit generated one sale) but i would recommend stealing time and supplies and xeroxing (my zine is print in my office) from the job - it's only fair - your bosses would do the same to you and most likely do worst > > it's the poets job to steal words lines and time and whatever you can get away with > > > > > > > > Larissa Shmailo wrote: > The point I was trying to make is that both Miller and the Potter author were willling to get fired---and both did, in fact--in order to pursue their writing. Which sets then apart. Neither was thinking about a place to live, or clothes, or even food. THEY WROTE, period. And that risk, I think, made them writers. > > Larissa Shmailo > 253 West 72nd Street #715 > New York, NY 10023 > 212/712-9865 > slidingsca@aol.com > http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo > larissashmailo.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vernon Frazer > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:34:32 -0400 > Subject: Re: Economics or? > > > I couldn't exercise my commitment to writing if I didn't have a place to > write and eat. This cost money that I have never in my life been able to > earn from writing. Taking a job was a matter of necessity, not a lack of > commitment to a life decision I made at age 15. > > Most of us don't have the means to survive without some kind of job, no > matter how much time we want to spend writing. Has anyone tried to get > their car engine rebuilt with two complimentary copies of the magazine in > which their latest poem has been published? In 45 years of writing, some of > it free-lancing for newspapers, I don't think I've earned enough to cover my > rent, food and other basic survival expenses for longer than one month in > any year of my life. > > Like Henry Miller, like many others on the List, I've had to work a job I > hated. I found ways to do the job quickly and efficiently so that I could > have the time to write on what I referred to as "my unofficial government > grant." I still think the employer got more money out of me--in work and > "cultural contributions"---than they got from most of their other employees. > > The only people I know who had a "total commitment" to writing, had trust > funds, rich daddies or a partner who would support them. I wouldn't have > objected to any of these, but they weren't available to me. > > Now I have an early pension and no job to create an inaccurate perception of > my commitment to writing. > > Vernon > http://vernonfrazer.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Kenneth Wolman > Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 4:36 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Economics or? > > Larissa Shmailo wrote: >> Henry Miller used to write on Telegraph's (am I right about the company?) > time. The Harry Potter lady used to do the same. Is it economics, or is it > the fear of that complete commitment? Risky, but it might make us better > writers. >> >> On the verge, >> Larissa >> > I'm not supposed to "approve" of stealing time from an employer. > Tsk-tsk and all that stuff. However, I am grateful to this day that > AT&T ran such a slack operation that I had the chance to learn some > elements of a craft I shall never really "get." > > Wasn't J. K. Rowling on the dole before she hit it big with the Potter > books? So I've heard, anyway. > > Friend on the W. Coast said if I'm going to read any of the Potter > books, get the British editions because the American ones have been > gutted. Apparently the publishers think American kids and teens are > morons lacking attention spans or the ability to concentrate on an idea. > > ken > > > -- > -------------------- > Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com > > "I think men who have a pierced ear are better prepared for marriage. > They've experienced pain and bought jewelry." - Rita Rudner > "Whenever I date a guy I think, "Is this the man I want my children to spend > their weekends with?" - Rita Rudner > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:01:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Happy Birthday Gaston Bachelard and Emma Goldman!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "David-Baptiste Chirot" >Happy Birthday today to Gaston Bachelard & Emma Goldmann!!! > > "Then, in an immesne synthesis we should dream at the same time of a >winged house that whines at the slightest breeze and refines the energies >of the wind. Millers, who are wind thieves, make good flour from storms." > >--Bachelard The Poetics of Space > > "Someone has said that it requires less mental effort to condemn than >to think. The widespread mental indolence so prevalent in society proves >this to be only too true. Rather than to go to the bottom of any given >idea, to examine into its origin and meaning, most people will either >condemn it altogether, or rely on some superficial or prejudicial >definition of non-essentials. > "Anarchism urges man (sic) to think, to investigate, to analyze every >propostion . . . " > >--Emma Goldman Anarchism and other essays > >_________________________________________________________________ >Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:32:01 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacob Edmond Subject: Call for Poetry Papers: Submit Critical Work to Deep South! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Call for Poetry Papers: Submit Critical Work to Deep South! Deep South is emerging from hibernation. Our 2006 call for critical submissions closes on August 1st, 2006. We will publish critical essays in the Humanities and Arts, extracts from work in progress and reviews, pertaining to a poetry theme. Submissions from anyone are welcome. With a Spring deadline in mind, we intend to publish Deep South by September 2006. All submissions will be peer-reviewed and evaluated by members of the Deep South editorial team. All submitters will receive e-mail notification of acceptance or rejection by the end of August. You can submit work, either by mail, or email. Mail: Deep South Department of English University of Otago P.O. Box 56 Dunedin New Zealand Email: deep.south@stonebow.otago.ac.nz The journal can be viewed at: http://www.otago.ac.nz/deepsouth/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:16:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Linden Subject: ed abbey In-Reply-To: <20060627173437.IYEB29624.ibm56aec.bellsouth.net@vernon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "In the first place you can't see *anything from a car; you've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk, better yet crawl, on hands and knees, over the sandstone and through the thornbush and cactus. When traces of blood begin to mark your trail you'll see something, maybe. Probably not." but maybe writing job -jen _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:28:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Subject: UBUWEB :: Summer 2006 Comments: To: rumori@detritus.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com ---------------------------- UBUWEB :: Summer 2006 ---------------------------- --- RECENT FEATURES --- The Films of Jack Goldstein (MP4) Ten rarely seen short films made between 1974 and 1978: "Portrait of Pere Tanguy" (1974), Shane, Butterflies, The Knife, Ballet Shoe, White Dove, The Chair, MGM (all 1975), Bone China (1976) and The Jump (1978). The long-term significance of Jack Goldstein's artistic achievement is only now becoming evident. In his life and work, Jack, who committed suicide in San Bernardino in March 2003 at the age of fifty-seven, articulated the profound anxiety dominating an era of spectacle, as the open-ended Conceptual practices that characterized the '70s gave way to an appropriation-based return to narrative imagemaking. His films, 45 rpm records, paintings, text pieces, and performances formed a hinge between the end of one decade and the beginning of another, articulating elements of both while refusing to be contained by either. You can listen to Goldstein's recordings here. György Ligeti: Poème Symphonique for 100 metronomes (AVI): Video from an ARTE (France) broadcast of Poème Symphonique for 100 metronomes. Since its world premiere in the Netherlands in 1963, Poème symphonique for 100 metronomes has been very rarely performed in public. The complicated scenographic staging, the detailed preparation by hand, the need for around ten technicians to activate more or less simultaneously the 100 metronomes, makes the demand for performances limited. Also, György Ligeti: Portrait, A Documentary by Michel Follin (1993). The Hungarian composer György Ligeti's biography typifies the displaced cosmopolitan, truly at home only in the international community of music. Appropriately enough, this revealing film portrait of his life and music has a train journey as its central metaphor, with Ligeti gazing through the window onto the changing middle-European landscape. His music - innovative, complex, brilliantly eclectic - accompanies his reflections and memories. (French, no subtitles). GreyLodge: UbuWeb's New Partner UbuWeb is pleased to announce our new alliance with the incredible avant-garde resource GreyLodge, home of the Grey Lodge Occult Review and G-Pod. Over the past year, we have shared a similar aesthetic and have mirrored each other's content. Now, with the two sites partnering, you will see an increase in new film and audio offerings on UbuWeb, as well as a great increase in bandwidth and server stability for GL users. Welcome GreyLodge! The Cut-Up Films of William S. Burroughs (1963-1972) (AVI): Five seminal films by Burroughs in collaboration with Anthony Balch: William Buys a Parrot (1963), Towers Open Fire (1963), Ghost at n°9 (Paris) (1963-1972) Bill and Tony (1972) and The Cut-Ups (1966). You can also listen to audio by Burroughs and read his Electronic Revolution (1970). Vienna Actionist Films 1967-1970 (MP4): Twenty-one films by Otto Muehl and Otmar Bauer. Includes Meuhl's Manopsychotisches Ballett (1970), Investmentfonds (1970), Psychotic Party (1970), Stille Nacht (1969), Kardinal (1967), Psycho-Motorische Geräuschaktion (1967), Wehrertüchtigung (1967), Scheißkerl (1969), Oh Sensibility (1967), Der Geile Wotan (1970) and Satisfaction (1968) by Muehl - Schwarzkogler - Brus; also Bauer's Zeigt (1969), Impudenz Im Grunewald (1969) and 20.September (1967); Kurt Kren's Cosinus Alpha (1966), Leda und der Schwan (1964), Mama und Papa (1964), O Tannenbaum (1964); Hermann Nitsch's 6 Tage Spiel - Das Orgien Mysterien Theater, Day 3: Day of Dionysus (Excerpt) (1998). You can also listen to Otto Muehl's Psycho Motorik & Ein Schrecklicher Gedanke, LPs (MP3) from 1971 as well as two interviews by Hermann Nitsch (MP3), one from 1975 and the other from 1999. FluxFilms (1962 - 1970): UbuWeb is pleased to announce the return of FluxFilms. Dating from the sixties and compiled by George Maciunas (1931-1978, founder of Fluxus), this is a document consisting of 37 short films ranging from 10 seconds to 10 minutes in length. These films (some of which were meant to be screened as continuous loops) were shown as part of the events and happenings of the New York avant-garde. Made by the artists listed above, they celebrate the ephemeral humor of the Fluxus movement.Films by Nam June Paik, Dick Higgins, George Maciunas, Chieko Shiomi, John Cavanaugh, James Riddle, Yoko Ono, George Brecht, Robert Watts, Pieter Vanderbiek, Joe Jones, Eric Anderson, Jeff Perkins, Wolf Vostell, Albert Fine, George Landow, Paul Sharits, John Cale, Peter Kennedy, Mike Parr, Ben Vautier. (MPEG) Ferdinand Kriwet Hörspiels: Three unreleased legendary Hörspiels from the late 60s and early 70s, originally broadcast on German radio: Apollo America (1969), a sound collage of the events of Apollo 11, mostly recorded off of New York radio; and Voice of America (1970), a snapshot of American media at the beginning of the 1970s. Also included is an early work for mulitple voices, Jaja (1965). You can browse Kriwet's prescient visual works in UbuWeb's Historical section. Ethnopoetics Update: UbuWeb Ethnopoetics editor Jerome Rothenberg has supplied us with a fresh batch of poems and essays including: Yunte Huang's essay with visuals of poems inscribed on walls by Chinese immigrants at Angel Island, San Francisco; Dennis Tedlock's A Conversation with Madness (translation) from The Human Work, the Human Design: 2,000 Years of Mayan Literature; an essay by Greek artist Demosthenes Agrafiotis on traditional writing systems & art making (French); Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's concrete poetry translation of an Ojibwa poem Song of the Owl; Dinita Smith on Incantations, a handmade book of original writings in Tsotzil by Mayan women; Ambar Past's Introduction to the Tzotzil Mayan Incantations book; and The People's Poetry Language Initiative -- A Declaration Of Poetic Rights And Values, Ethel Waters’ That Dada Strain (1922); and The Signifying Monkey: Two Versions of a Toast. Primary Texts of American and British Conceptual Art (1965-1971): Dozens of documents, statements, interviews and theories of conceptual art by the first wave of artists. Including texts by Art & Language, Terry Atkinson, Robert Barry, Mel Bochner, Daniel Buren, Victor Burgin, Dan Graham, Hans Haacke, Doublas Huebler, Joseph Kosuth, Robert Morris, Sol Lewitt, Adrian Piper, Bruce Nauman, Ed Ruscha, Lawrence Weiner and many others. Steve Roden "Soundwalk" (2005) [MP3]: Recordings documenting a live five-hour performance by Los Angeles-based artist Steve Roden aka In Be Tween Noise. Roden writes, "On the evening of the event, the audience entered the space to find few old rugs covering the dance floor, and a couple of small lamps with low watt bulbs. From my windowless little cardboard shelter hidden in a corner, i had no idea what was going on in the space; and most of the visitors assumed they were listening to a pre-recorded installation... the piece was playing through speakers located roughly 10 feet above the audience and reflecting off a dome ceiling back down to the listeners below." Henri Chopin Videos: UbuWeb is pleased to present four films of sound poet Henri Chopin (b. 1922): Henri Chopin at Home (13.9 mb, .MOV), Henri Chopin at The Garage (293.9 mb, .MOV); Henri Chopin Live at Espcace Gantner (204.3 mb, .MOV); Undated Henri Chopin Performance (19.3 mb, .MOV). Also see UbuWeb's vast collection of Chopin MP3s. All videos courtesy of Erratum Roland Barthes: "Comment vivre ensemble" (1977) and "Le Neutre" (1978) [MP3]: Over 36 hours worth of lectures by Roland Barthes (1915-1980). The audio material available here represents the whole lectures given by Barthes during his first 2 years' teaching at the Collège de France in 1977 and 1978, and also his inaugural lecture about the question of power (and the way it is inscribed in the core of the language). --- Summer 2006 :: NEW ADDITIONS --- Softpalate Gertrude Stein 3 New Interpretations of Stein's "Geography & Plays" by Robert Quillen Camp, [N]+Semble (Talan Memmott), and Ergo Phizmiz Cinema of Transgression Early 1980s Lower East Side Films: Kern, Moritsugu, Pfahler, Wojnarowicz, etc. Walerian Borowczyk Short Films, 1957-84 Jerry Tartaglia Ecce Homo, 1989 George Landow (aka Owen Land) Three Films, 1965-70 Erik Satie Pièces pour Guitare, (played by Pierre Laniau, 1982) (MP3) Paul McCarthy Black and White Tapes, 1972 (MP4) Terry Fox The Children's Tape, 1974 (MP4) Bruce Nauman Stamping in the Studio, 1968 (MP4) Mauricio Kagel Blues Blue, 1981 (AVI) Charlemange Palestine Island Song, 1976 (MP4) Richard Serra Boomerang, 1974 (MP4) Alfred Leslie The Last Clean Shirt, 1964 (AVI) Penelope Umbrico Recent Web Works Stefan and Franciszka Themerson Films, 1937-1944 (AVI) David Rimmer Surfacing the Thames, 1970 (AVI) Agnes Varda Black Panthers - Huey!, 1968 (AVI) Jorge Luis Borges The Mirror Man (AVI) Cornelius Cardew "Towards an Ethic of Improvisation" (1971) John Cage & Morton Feldman In Conversation, 1967 (MP3) Bernd Alois Zimmermann Musique pour les soupers du Roi Ubu (1968) (MP3) Hermann Bohlen Gekaut!! (Bis es von alleine herunterläuft) (MP3) Eric Rosolowski WMD (2006) Ghérasim Luca Radio France Broadcasts: Passionnément & Une vie une oeuvre (2005) [MP3] Phil Niblock Hannah Weiner, 1975 (Real Video) Phil Niblock Armand Schwerner, 1973 (Real Video) Guy Debord Hurlements en faveur de Sade 1952, (AVI) People Like Us & Felix Kubin Molaradio, 2004 [MP3] Elana Mann & Adam Overton Conversation Pieces: February 13-17, 2006 [PDF] Kenneth Goldsmith & Conceptual Poetics Essays by Perloff, Dworkin, Bök and others (2005) Viking Eggeling Symphonie Diagonale (1924) [AVI] Hans Richter Filmstudie (1926) [AVI] Samuel Beckett Not I (with Billie Whitelaw, 1971) [AVI] Mauricio Kagel ACUSTICA for experimental sound-producers and loud-speakers (1971) [MP3] Steve Benson The Ball // 30 Times in 2 Days (2006) [PDF] Craig Douglas Dworkin Legion (II) (2006) [PDF] Fluxus Anthology 2006 A collection of music and sound events assembled by Walter Cianciusi for Fluxlist (2006) [MP3] Jelle Meander & Maja Jantar Maiandros Sonoros (2005); Live in Geneva & Brussels (2004) [MP3] ------------- Featured UbuWeb Resources: Summer 2006 Selected by David Grubbs 1. Craig Douglas Dworkin, "Unheard Music" [PDF] 2. Henry Flynt Interview by Kenneth Goldsmith on WFMU 3. John Cage and Morton Feldman in Conversation 4. Luc Ferrari France Culture Tributes and Documentaries 5. Marcel Broodthaers, "Interview with a Cat" 6. Dan Graham, "Performer/Audience/Mirror" 7. Marjorie Perloff, "The Music of Verbal Space: John Cage's 'What You Say'" 8. Mike Kelley, "The Peristaltic Airwaves" 9. Erik Satie, "Pieces pour Guitare" 10. Hanne Darboven, "Opus 17a" David Grubbs is known for his solo musical work, as well as for collaborations with Stephen Prina, Susan Howe, Tony Conrad, Angela Bulloch, Will Oldham, and many others. He is a professor of Radio and Sound Art at Brooklyn College and directs the Blue Chopsticks record label. ---------------------------- UBUWEB :: Summer 2006 ---------------------------- UBUWEB IS ENTIRELY FREE __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com Apologies for cross-postings. Please forward. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:18:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah DeNicola Subject: Re: Call for Poetry Papers: Submit Critical Work to Deep South! Comments: To: Jacob Edmond In-Reply-To: <20060628083201.h5t5ck3k4044ks4c@webmail.slingshot.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ii don't know why I am getting these emails. Someone please tell me how to unsubscribe! Thanks. DD On Jun 27, 2006, at 4:32 PM, Jacob Edmond wrote: > Call for Poetry Papers: Submit Critical Work to Deep South! > > Deep South is emerging from hibernation. Our 2006 call for critical > submissions closes on August 1st, 2006. We will publish critical > essays in the > Humanities and Arts, extracts from work in progress and reviews, > pertaining to > a poetry theme. Submissions from anyone are welcome. > With a Spring deadline in mind, we intend to publish Deep South by > September > 2006. All submissions will be peer-reviewed and evaluated by > members of the > Deep South editorial team. All submitters will receive e-mail > notification of > acceptance or rejection by the end of August. > > You can submit work, either by mail, or email. > Mail: > Deep South > Department of English > University of Otago > P.O. Box 56 > Dunedin > New Zealand > Email: deep.south@stonebow.otago.ac.nz > > The journal can be viewed at: http://www.otago.ac.nz/deepsouth/ > index.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:18:15 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: simlpe Economics or? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > The only people I know who had a "total commitment" to writing, had trust > funds, rich daddies or a partner who would support them. I wouldn't have > objected to any of these, but they weren't available to me. > I have written full-time (both poet and novelist) for the past ten years or so. I had the amazing good sense to get married to a full-time playwright and we have three children. Alas, no rich daddies or trust funds either. We can't go on the dole because our income is too intermittent and we're not exactly unemployed. How do we live? I don't know. We manage, just. Our children forgive us. Life is good. All best A -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 23:55:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Slaughter, William" Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 61 (2006) Anne Germanacos | How She Made Beats Anne Germanacos completed an MFA at Bennington in 2003. Her stories and essays have appeared recently or are forthcoming in AGNI Online, Black Warrior Review, Florida Review, Chattahoochee Review, Salamander, The Diagram, Pindeldyboz, and Santa Monica Review, etc. A story published in Fourteen Hills recently received the Holmes Award for emerging writers. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:42:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Eye Scream IV: Paint the Town READ Comments: To: announce@logolalia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You are cordially invited: http://www.iloveyougalleries.com/INVITE.pdf to AN EVENING OF URBAN FINDINGS Bring your missing turtles and St Christopher medals to The Embassy, 223 Augusta Avenue, Toronto, ON Kensington Market July 6, 2006 PWYC For all things lost on earth are treasur'd there. 8 pm -- Eye Scream IV: Paint the Town READ -- opening reception Artists: Dan Waber, Michael Tweed, The Toronto Decorating Committee, Rocky, David Owen, Jeremy McLeod, Joy Learn, Beth Learn, I See Love Collective, I Love You (NYC), Beverly Gooding, Sandra Alland, Anonymous. Curated by Sharon Harris. An innovative exhibition of urban pictographs and petroglyphs: graffiti, stencils, sculptures, posters -- and photographs of all of the above . 9 pm -- Lost: Discarded Poetries with Amy Lam, Trish Postle, Stephen Cain, Bob Wiseman and Maggie Helwig Where do lost words go? Join us for a multimedia exploration of the world of found text. Performance, music and film based on the poetries of graffiti, street signs, lost receipts, liturgical texts and other lost and discarded things, reclaimed and re-cherished by our performers. Bring your own found texts and dare them to improvise! Part of The Scream Literary Festival, July 4th to 10th. Now in its 14th season, the Scream Literary Festival celebrates artists who continue to chart new territory in Canadian writing, concluding with The Scream in High Park on July 10th, the largest single-night poetry reading in Canada. Visit http://www.thescream.ca. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:24:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Latta Subject: Blogland Note Comments: cc: UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu In-Reply-To: <449D2291.4010200@ull.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed After two earlier escapades into (and back out of) Blogland, I am returning for another go-around (ambuscade). The new one is found at http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/ It is called Isola di Rifiuti. Its propensity is toward "Notes, Poetics, Trouvailles, Photographs, Malarkey, & Guff," or so it claims. No hit-counters, no trackbackers, no hegemony-building. Lately, I'm reading Peter Weiss's terrific _Aesthetics of Resistance_. John Latta ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:27:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah DeNicola Subject: How do I unsubscribe? Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I don't want these messages. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:34:32 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Luster Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's at the bottom of every message: >List-Help: , > >List-Unsubscribe: >List-Subscribe: >List-Owner: >List-Archive: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:58:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? In-Reply-To: <51c.21ca316.31d3ed78@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm, then why I am seeing these now, in your message, for the very first time? Eh? Hal On Jun 28, 2006, at 9:34 AM, Mike Luster wrote: > It's at the bottom of every message: > > >> List-Help: , >> >> List-Unsubscribe: > request@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> >> List-Subscribe: > request@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> >> List-Owner: >> List-Archive: "Things are more like they are now than they ever were." --Dwight David Eisenhower Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:37:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Linden Subject: Re: Blogland Note In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Lately, I'm reading Peter Weiss's terrific _Aesthetics of Resistance_. > >John Latta ---i wunder why it's not called "resistance of aesthetics" ? My terrific spouse and I are reading Popper, _Realism and the Aim of Science_ -- though since he has the full-time job and i'm on the dole via his job i may finish the book beforehand -- it's almost like being paid to read! :-) -jen _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:39:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: water works MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Does anybody out there know if SUNY Binghamton is in the flooded areas I'm seeing on my television this morning? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:50:51 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Books To Prisoners fundraiser Sunday July 2 at the Red & Black! MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Books To Prisoners fundraiser Sunday July 2 at the Red & Black! author: pdxbookstoprisoners@riseup.net On Sunday, July 2nd, Books To Prisoners will host a benefit film showing and prisoner letter-writing party from 4-8 PM at the Red and Black Café, 2138 SE Division St. Come learn about North American political prisoners from 4-6 PM, and write a letter or a birthday card to one of them. Then watch and discuss USA INCarcerated, a film produced by Critical Resistance about the rise of the prison industrial complex in the US and the trade-offs that are being made to support this growth. Following the movie, Therapeutic Music with host a guerilla poetry showcase featuring words and beats by Open-Mindead Therapists, Children Born of Water, Erik Beats and All Out Massacre! A donation of $5 or a dictionary is requested— All proceeds go to Portland Books to Prisoners and Books to Oregon Prisoners. For more info, email pdxbookstoprisoners@riseup.net, or visit http://www.bookstooregonprisoners.org Portland Books to Prisoners and Books to Oregon Prisoners are both non-profit, all-volunteer run groups that mail books to prisoners who request them. Portland Books to Prisoners meets twice a week, on Monday and Wednesday nights at 2362 SE 43rd Ave, and anyone can come and help assemble and wrap packages on these nights. Books to Oregon Prisoners meets the 2nd Saturday of every month from noon-4pm at Blackrose Collective Bookstore, located at 4038 N. Mississippi Ave. Drop boxes where people can donate books and stamps, are located at In Other Words Books, Laughing Horse Books, Rocco's Pizza, Hollywood Theatre, and Blackrose Collective Bookstore. For more information, email pdxbookstoprisoners@riseup.net. http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/341765.shtml -- Stay Strong \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:14:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Linden Subject: Re: water works In-Reply-To: <200606281539.LAA05956@webmail18.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Does anybody out there know if SUNY Binghamton is in the flooded areas I'm >seeing on my television this morning? --the Susquehanna was 15 feet over flood level but the rain has stopped and as far as I know (though I'm not on campus) the Suny Binghamton campus is ok -- not as bad as last years' flood tho -- there has been a 'no travel' advisory and likely it's still effective for traffic -jen _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:22:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kenneth Wolman Subject: Re: water works In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jen Linden wrote: >> Does anybody out there know if SUNY Binghamton is in the flooded >> areas I'm >> seeing on my television this morning? > > --the Susquehanna was 15 feet over flood level but the rain has > stopped and as far as I know (though I'm not on campus) the Suny > Binghamton campus is ok -- not as bad as last years' flood tho -- > there has been a 'no travel' advisory and likely it's still effective > for traffic > > -jen I'd forgotten about floods up there. In 1936 the city was underwater: pictures were displayed somewhere...Roberson Museum? In '72 my wife and I had to vacate our cozy cottage in Vestal (Landon Road) because the meandering little "crick" out back overnight had climbed 50 feet from its banks and was pouring into our basement. The cops and firefolk ordered us to abandon the joint. ken -- -------------------- Ken Wolman kenwolman.com rainermaria.typepad.com "I think men who have a pierced ear are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought jewelry." - Rita Rudner "Whenever I date a guy I think, "Is this the man I want my children to spend their weekends with?" - Rita Rudner ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:26:43 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Park Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The current Abbey Taxi Magnetic Message is: Park by cris cheek (for Ian Hamilton Finlay) (and can be viewed online @ www.abbeytaxi.info) * This email is sent via the Liveart mail-list. 'Reply' will send your=20= response to that list * Abbey Taxi's MAGNETIC MESSAGES has been operating since early January=20 providing a playful neighbourhood information and message service open=20= to all submissions from local and (now extending to include) translocal=20= participants. Submissions are invited and welcomed by email to info@abbeytaxi.info Please include detailed description of how you would like the text=20 displayed. All participants will receive a digital image by email of=20 their message as displayed on Abbey Taxi. Occasionally a translocal=20 MAGNETIC MESSAGE may need to be combined with a local one. Messages=20 will remain in place until they are replaced by another submission. All=20= messages will be archived on the Abbey Taxi logbook pages.=00 GUIDELINES Maximum line length 1 =3D 36 characters (incl. spaces) Maximum line length 2 =3D 30 characters (incl. spaces) Maximum line length 3 =3D 22 characters (incl. spaces) Abbey Taxi (formerly known as Taxi Gallery) is a neighbourhood=20 landmark and shelter for information, conversation and exchange. (Abbey=20= is the name of the neighbourhood, on the outskirts of Cambridge,=20 England in which the Taxi is situated.) Abbey Taxi is a space open to=20 proposals and ideas of all kinds from local and translocal=20 participants. www.abbeytaxi.info =00= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:02:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: LA: June 30 @ Beyond Baroque MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 30 June, Friday - 7:30 PM=20 Beyond Baroque =20 681 Venice Blvd. Venice, CA TOM ORANGE, K. LORRAINE GRAHAM, MARK WALLACE, and CATHERINE DALY=20 Come celebrate the spirit of post moot = , including but not limited to all forms of experimental poetic work = that are both live and exist as objects. TOM ORANGE has co-curated the in = your ear reading series at the District of Columbia Arts Center and edited = the dcpoetry.com website and anthologies since Fall = 2000 . CATHERINE DALY is author of DaDaDa, Locket, Secret Kitty, and To = Delite and Instruct . MARK WALLACE is author of a number of books of poems, = most recently Temporary Worker Rides A Subway . K. LORRAINE GRAHAM is author = of two chapbooks, Dear (Blank) I Believe in Other Worlds (Phylum) and = Terminal Humming (Slack Buddha).=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Epigramititis review in BOMB Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The following Editor's Choice review, by Ammiel Alcalay, appears in the current issue of BOMB Magazine. To order the book, please visit =A0http://www.blazevox.org/bk-kj.htm=20 Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza BlazeVOX [books] www.blazevox.org=20 * BOMB 96 Editor's Choice Ammiel Alcalay on Epigramititis: 118 Living American Poets by Kent = Johnson At the height of the war in Vietnam, Robert Duncan and Denise Levertov articulated the best of radically different political practices. While Levertov worked in public opposition, Duncan went "underground," striking at the heart of complicity: "We want peace because we are agonized to realize how much we are involved with and subject to the will of murderous and conceited men; but the Vietnamese who are fighting for the truth do not want peace at the sacrifice of their vision of the good--we, not they, are the ones who need immediate surrender of the war for the good of our human souls." These many years later, when the terms of debate and the scale of protest have been entirely predictable, where it is almost impossible not to be affiliated with the corporate body of the nation and complicity pervades every core of our being, poet and translator Kent Johnson has taken up arms in a seemingly marginal segment of society, that of the "post-avant" poetry scene. In Epigramititis: 118 Living American Poets, Johnson makes us understand that the 118 mostly not very well known poets and their readers whom he satirizes and praises may not be so marginal after all. In fact, at the receiving end of Johnson's considerable conceptual acumen and wit, they may very well be representative. The point is that the consensus of public discourse upon which political power consolidates itself has to start somewhere, and Johnson takes a scalpel to these mechanisms in the world he knows best. This insight fuels what can be a scary book, making readers squirm as they recognize friends, enemies and poets of "reputation." But precisely because Johnson names names (each epigram bears a poet's name), we as readers are called upon to judge our own responses to his mix of invective, humor and admiration. As the great poet Ed Dorn wrote on an early batch of these epigrams: "It's about time for something of the sort, what with the ass licking that rules the day." So far this time bomb has been tossed around gingerly, but one hopes it explodes in true debate. Epigramititis: 118 Living American Poets is published by BlazeVOX [books] Buffalo, New York. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:28:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Epigramititis review in BOMB In-Reply-To: <000301c69ae8$7a6a39f0$050aa8c0@adminstret4wjx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Congrats on the great review for one of your books, Geoffrey. I was plannin= g on ordering that one after my next paycheck, and now i'm even more intrig= ued. Of course, the used bookstore down the street has a copy of Ted Berrig= an's "Clear the Range" for sale, and that may win out for my poetry dollar = this pay period. On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Geoffrey Gatza wrote: > The following Editor's Choice review, by Ammiel Alcalay, appears in the > current issue of BOMB Magazine. > > To order the book, please visit =A0http://www.blazevox.org/bk-kj.htm > > Best, Geoffrey > > Geoffrey Gatza > BlazeVOX [books] > www.blazevox.org > > * > > BOMB 96 > Editor's Choice > Ammiel Alcalay on Epigramititis: 118 Living American Poets by Kent Johnso= n > > At the height of the war in Vietnam, Robert Duncan and Denise Levertov > articulated the best of radically different political practices. While > Levertov worked in public opposition, Duncan went "underground," > striking at the heart of complicity: "We want peace because we are > agonized to realize how much we are involved with and subject to the > will of murderous and conceited men; but the Vietnamese who are fighting > for the truth do not want peace at the sacrifice of their vision of the > good--we, not they, are the ones who need immediate surrender of the war > for the good of our human souls." These many years later, when the > terms of debate and the scale of protest have been entirely predictable, > where it is almost impossible not to be affiliated with the corporate > body of the nation and complicity pervades every core of our being, poet > and translator Kent Johnson has taken up arms in a seemingly marginal > segment of society, that of the "post-avant" poetry scene. > > In Epigramititis: 118 Living American Poets, Johnson makes us > understand that the 118 mostly not very well known poets and their > readers whom he satirizes and praises may not be so marginal after all. > In fact, at the receiving end of Johnson's considerable conceptual > acumen and wit, they may very well be representative. The point is that > the consensus of public discourse upon which political power > consolidates itself has to start somewhere, and Johnson takes a scalpel > to these mechanisms in the world he knows best. This insight fuels what > can be a scary book, making readers squirm as they recognize friends, > enemies and poets of "reputation." But precisely because Johnson > names names (each epigram bears a poet's name), we as readers are > called upon to judge our own responses to his mix of invective, humor > and admiration. As the great poet Ed Dorn wrote on an early batch of > these epigrams: "It's about time for something of the sort, what > with the ass licking that rules the day." So far this time bomb has > been tossed around gingerly, but one hopes it explodes in true debate. > > Epigramititis: 118 Living American Poets is published by BlazeVOX > [books] Buffalo, New York. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:24:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: Re: water works In-Reply-To: <200606281539.LAA05956@webmail18.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SUNY Binghamton is fairly high on a hill; the campus is okay. I was there this morning though driving there I saw people less than a mile from my house (in Johnson City) wading to their own homes in waist-deep water. Many towns in the area have been evacuated. Helicopters are flying over--state of emergency and coast guard activity. My significant other lives by the river in Conklin (6 miles from the south side of Binghamton), had to evacuate, and will go assess damage tomorrow as it is impossible to get there right now. This breaks the 1948 record, as you can see here. http://newweb.erh.noaa.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=bgm&gage=ckln6&view= 1,1,1,1,1,1 Many roads are rivers. Kindest regards, Deborah Poe -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of ALDON L NIELSEN Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:40 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: water works Does anybody out there know if SUNY Binghamton is in the flooded areas I'm seeing on my television this morning? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:36:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: water works Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Good to see you and yours assessing damage - not damaged. Chris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Minky Starshine" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: water works > Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:24:16 -0400 >=20 >=20 > SUNY Binghamton is fairly high on a hill; the campus is okay. I was > there this morning though driving there I saw people less than a mile > from my house (in Johnson City) wading to their own homes in waist-deep > water. Many towns in the area have been evacuated. Helicopters are > flying over--state of emergency and coast guard activity. My significant > other lives by the river in Conklin (6 miles from the south side of > Binghamton), had to evacuate, and will go assess damage tomorrow as it > is impossible to get there right now. This breaks the 1948 record, as > you can see here. >=20 > http://newweb.erh.noaa.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=3Dbgm&gage=3Dckln6&vi= ew=3D > 1,1,1,1,1,1 >=20 > Many roads are rivers. >=20 > Kindest regards, > Deborah Poe >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of ALDON L NIELSEN > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:40 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: water works >=20 > Does anybody out there know if SUNY Binghamton is in the flooded areas > I'm > seeing on my television this morning? > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> >=20 > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson >=20 > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >=20 > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 >=20 > (814) 865-0091 > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:31:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Wallace Subject: reading this Friday June 30 7:30 p.m. at Beyond Baroque MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello List Members in the Los Angeles area: Tom Orange, Lorraine Graham, Catherine Daly and myself will all be reading this Friday June 30 at 7;30 p.m. at Beyond Baroque, at 681 Venice Boulevard in Venice, CA. Further information for any who might need it can be found at: http://www.beyondbaroque.org/ We really hope to see you there! Mark Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:35:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: Re: water works In-Reply-To: <001201c69af9$35fb6580$6401a8c0@deborahhome> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Incidentally, I meant the National Guard. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Minky Starshine Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:24 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: water works SUNY Binghamton is fairly high on a hill; the campus is okay. I was there this morning though driving there I saw people less than a mile from my house (in Johnson City) wading to their own homes in waist-deep water. Many towns in the area have been evacuated. Helicopters are flying over--state of emergency and coast guard activity. My significant other lives by the river in Conklin (6 miles from the south side of Binghamton), had to evacuate, and will go assess damage tomorrow as it is impossible to get there right now. This breaks the 1948 record, as you can see here. http://newweb.erh.noaa.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=bgm&gage=ckln6&view= 1,1,1,1,1,1 Many roads are rivers. Kindest regards, Deborah Poe -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of ALDON L NIELSEN Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:40 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: water works Does anybody out there know if SUNY Binghamton is in the flooded areas I'm seeing on my television this morning? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:11:45 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Economic messages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This just in from "Absolute Resolutions Corp": a balance due of $48.54, passed on to ARC by CIRCA POETRY, another debt management concern. I owe them for a hardcover copy of TOUCH OF TOMORROW, published by The International Library of Poets, that featured my poem, "Florence's Weekend" on the first page. I signed off permission for another poem "It's the end of a cycle" without requesting a copy of that volume, THE BEST POEMS AND POETS OF 2005. I decided to try vanity press with my first ever published poems due to the fact that I was avoiding giving the appearance of competing with MFA and PhD poets I had gone to graduate school with in Houston. They had known me as a short story writer and somewhat hasty essayist (most of the writers there wrote VERY slowly). With the help of a friend, I had paid off a pile of my bills one year: it equalled six years worth of hefty interest, medical costs, clothes from Target, toiletries, other incidentals, etc. The cards charged off ("R9") on the indeterminate day before my friend and I paid the tab. That means in credit terminology, the banks (6 of them) took a tax write off because my payments were seven months late, then on the following day the banks received their payment in full, including nasty "legal fees" not needed to collect from me. My credit rating is still too low due to the R9s even to rent an apartment, though I owed nothing. This is a far cry from where my credit was ten years after I started as a worker; still, there's little I can do except write letters to the bureaus. I'm proud that I have wrecked my credit further due to a poem. The job I had from Feb. to June of this year I gave to the next person, without being fired, for my near-catatonic inability to get out of the car and go into the stores where I was scheduled to start gathering retail data. My boss and supervisor were nice beyond compare when I told them I was suffering a fear of leaving my car. Agoraphobia -- fear of the marketplace -- fear of open spaces. I was earning much needed extra income from that job. The boss was so nice, in fact, he invited me to call back in August when I might feel a little better. What caused my near inability to leave my car? It isn't poetry, but it might be writing-related. Google Adsense disabled my account due to my invalid clicks but left these blank patches on my blog where the ads for how to blog used to be. I wrote to THEM, too, and told them that many of my readers are sophisticated bloggers themselves, more sophisticated than I, who will not click on ads for how to blog. I learned that Google was getting paid at least $1 for each of those, yet I was getting paid closer to a penny a day. I see that my friend, Robin Reagler, advertises wonderful poetry books at her blog, Big Window. That's for the best. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 07:04:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Francis Raven Subject: architecture/home questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear list, I was hoping you could do the following for the beginning of a new project on architecture and the home: (1) Please describe your home. thanks so much in advance, Francis Francis Raven 2124 Spruce St. 1R Philadelphia PA 19103 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:32:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Orlando...? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Any poetic events happening in Orlando from 1 July to 8 July? I thank you. Gerald Schwartz gejs1@rochester.rr.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:14:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sandra Subject: Seismosis + 1913 Comments: To: ubuweb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *check out the interview with 1913 author, John Keene , today on Gapers Block: http://www.gapersblock.com/airbags/archives/john_keene_author_professor/ SEISMOSIS by John Keene + Christopher Stackhouse is available for pre-order directly from 1913: http://www.journal1913.org/home.html or pre-order from SPD books: http://spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=3D0977935108 1913 a journal of forms, issue 2, is also available via 1913's website and SPD. ...and Issue 1 is available for download! 1913 is now accepting work through two new contests only: http://www.journal1913.org/prizes.html ALL contest entries will be considered for publication by 1913. a happy l'ete to all, l'editrice. --=20 http://www.1913press.org http://www.journal1913.org * advance praises for Seismosis : "... Seismosis is the complete text for the course, replete with illustrations, examples, graphs, exercises, and tests." =97from the Foreword by Ed Roberson "...An immediate delight." =97Thalia Field "...We read the poems and see the drawings=97we read the drawings and see t= he poems, as the collaborators make use of space, line, and textural performance in one multimedia framework." =97Tracie Morris "...A little nerve music for the time being=97sampling seismo for the pleis= to scene." =97David Levi Strauss ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 09:50:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: VISUAL POETS - If Yre In Seattle This Summer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed FIVE CONTEMPORARY VISUAL POETS Joshua Beckman Jen Bervin Mary Ruefle Robert Seydel Nico Vassilakis An Exhibition of Poetry as Visual Art. Organized by Wave Books. The Wright Exhibition Space 407 Dexter Avenue North, Seattle 206 264 8200 June 29 - November 15 Open Thursday and Friday 10AM - 2PM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:01:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: You'll Know Me By My Poetry - Feiner, Myers, Applegate In-Reply-To: <000401c69924$0a23f980$8584ec04@jah> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MiPOesias TOMORROW -- Get your Friday night groove hotwired right with Corie Feiner, Gina Myers, and David Applegate: July 30th @ Stain Bar -- 7PM Williamsburg, Brooklyn Poet and performer, Corie Feiner (nee Herman) delivers her work with intensity, humor, and skill. Called "wonderful" by The New York Times, and "captivating," by Backstage Magazine; she has been featured in The Riverdale Press, the Greenwhich Times, and on WNBC for her extraordinary performances and poetry workshops. In addition to being a cast member of the renowned theatre troupe, Storahtelling she is the author of the poetry collection, Radishes into Roses, and has been published in numerous literary magazines and anthologies. You can reach her though her web site: http://www.coriefeiner.com. Gina Myers is originally from Saginaw, MI. She now resides in Brooklyn, NY where she co-edits 'the tiny' with Gabriella Torres. Her chapbook Fear of the Knee Bending Backwards is forthcoming from H_NGM_N, and a chapbook of collaborations with the poet Dustin Williamson, Power Lunch, is also forthcoming. David Applegate is a library clerk. He co-founded Bad Noise Productions in early 2006. Their first production, "Headless, nameless / Death hippie dub EP," a split text in the tradition of 7" hardcore records, will be available from http://www.badnoiseproductions.com in the very near future. A second production, the mysterious "Grammar Crisis," will appear during the fall of 2006. http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ stain bar 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ Stain is a unique arts lounge that supports and sells local wines, beers, and coffee drinks. There will also be some sort of finger foods for your amusement, and I will be your host! See you there~ Amy King http://www.amyking.org --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:01:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: You'll Know Me By My Poetry - Feiner, Myers, Applegate In-Reply-To: <000401c69924$0a23f980$8584ec04@jah> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MiPOesias TOMORROW -- Get your Friday night groove hotwired right with Corie Feiner, Gina Myers, and David Applegate: July 30th @ Stain Bar -- 7PM Williamsburg, Brooklyn Poet and performer, Corie Feiner (nee Herman) delivers her work with intensity, humor, and skill. Called "wonderful" by The New York Times, and "captivating," by Backstage Magazine; she has been featured in The Riverdale Press, the Greenwhich Times, and on WNBC for her extraordinary performances and poetry workshops. In addition to being a cast member of the renowned theatre troupe, Storahtelling she is the author of the poetry collection, Radishes into Roses, and has been published in numerous literary magazines and anthologies. You can reach her though her web site: http://www.coriefeiner.com. Gina Myers is originally from Saginaw, MI. She now resides in Brooklyn, NY where she co-edits 'the tiny' with Gabriella Torres. Her chapbook Fear of the Knee Bending Backwards is forthcoming from H_NGM_N, and a chapbook of collaborations with the poet Dustin Williamson, Power Lunch, is also forthcoming. David Applegate is a library clerk. He co-founded Bad Noise Productions in early 2006. Their first production, "Headless, nameless / Death hippie dub EP," a split text in the tradition of 7" hardcore records, will be available from http://www.badnoiseproductions.com in the very near future. A second production, the mysterious "Grammar Crisis," will appear during the fall of 2006. http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ stain bar 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ Stain is a unique arts lounge that supports and sells local wines, beers, and coffee drinks. There will also be some sort of finger foods for your amusement, and I will be your host! See you there~ Amy King http://www.amyking.org --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 00:26:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Epigramititis review in BOMB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello great neews i need amiel's e mail thanks dalachinsky backchannel if you like ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:25:05 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Edmund Hardy Subject: may / june at "Intercapillary Space" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/ POETRY Aase Berg (trans. J. Göransson) Nina Davies John Muckle Scott Thurston Stephen Vincent ROBERT SHEPPARD: INTERVIEW, POETRY AND PROSE ‘Signature & Ethics’ – an interview ‘The war had ended; it had not ended’ ‘September 12’ - parts 13 to 16 'Natalia' - from Thelma ESSAY & COMMENTARY Nomad Odes: "Ostrich eggs nearly split in the blaze" – an introduction to “the suspended ones” Kierkegaard's Styles: The Sickness Unto Death ONGOING GERALDINE MONK CELEBRATION Embellishment – opulence effects Follies: Monk & Goya BOOK REVIEWS Geoffrey Hill, Without Title John Kinsella, America Thomas Kinsella, Marginal Economy George Messo, Entrances Janet Sutherland, Burning The Heartwood Keston Sutherland, The Rictus Flag DOUGLAS OLIVER Not too late to join forthcoming Blog Symposium A Douglas Oliver Hyper-Link Crystal – 32 Oliver links PLUS Projects Pink: Emily Dickinson & Volcanoes Laura Riding: Not Mystery But Pain Kenneth Koch's The Beverly Boys' Summer Vacation Alec Finlay's I Know A Poem The Field of the Cloth of Gold – notes on signature, the shape of sex scandals, & shining capital in Henry VIII ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:27:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Roommate sought, Chelsea, NYC Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Beautiful Chelsea apartment, parquet floors, terrace, eat-in kitchen, Empire State Building views, front and back yards, cable tv, and cable modem. Available August 1. Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-2664 as ever, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:09:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: new at e-x-c-h-a-n-g-e-v-a-l-u-e-s.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit an interview with michael farrell by richard lopez. you'll find it at: http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:36:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Third Thurs. Now at Social Justice Center, Albany, NY Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed For those of you not at the last Third Thursday Open Mic at the Lark St. Bookshop to hear the announcement of our new location, I'm pleased to announce that the series is alive & well & will continue at the Social Justice Center, 33 Central Ave. (just up the block from the former QE2). Our next event is July 20 with the Ulster County/Brooklyn poet Donald Lev as the featured poet. Still with the sign-up at 7:00, open mic starts at 7:30. The Social Justice Center has been a center for progressive activism in Albany since 1981 & once was the site of Readings Against the End of the World. Many Albany poets are active in our community in issues involving the environment, housing, poverty, peace & racism, so I am pleased to be able to continue the Third Thursday open mic at a place where much of this important work is being done. Please join us on July 20 & every Third Thursday at the Social Justice Center. Peace, DWx ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 20:41:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Economic messages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear AMBogle, Looking for a writing career? Let me suggest you join the rank and file = of writers who stay focused by writing obituary columns, become an obit = writer...A. it's writing; B. it's employment. Write to:=20 Carolyn M. Gilbert The International Association of Obituarists 8409 Pickwick Lane # 312 Dallas, TX 75225 Alex=20 P.S. Don't you love the street name? =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:11 PM Subject: Economic messages This just in from "Absolute Resolutions Corp": a balance due of = $48.54,=20 passed on to ARC by CIRCA POETRY, another debt management concern. I = owe them for=20 a hardcover copy of TOUCH OF TOMORROW, published by The International = Library=20 of Poets, that featured my poem, "Florence's Weekend" on the first = page. I=20 signed off permission for another poem "It's the end of a cycle" = without=20 requesting a copy of that volume, THE BEST POEMS AND POETS OF 2005. I decided to try vanity press with my first ever published poems due = to the=20 fact that I was avoiding giving the appearance of competing with MFA = and PhD=20 poets I had gone to graduate school with in Houston. They had known = me as a=20 short story writer and somewhat hasty essayist (most of the writers = there wrote=20 VERY slowly). With the help of a friend, I had paid off a pile of my bills one year: = it=20 equalled six years worth of hefty interest, medical costs, clothes = from Target,=20 toiletries, other incidentals, etc. The cards charged off ("R9") on = the=20 indeterminate day before my friend and I paid the tab. That means in = credit=20 terminology, the banks (6 of them) took a tax write off because my = payments were=20 seven months late, then on the following day the banks received their = payment in=20 full, including nasty "legal fees" not needed to collect from me. My = credit=20 rating is still too low due to the R9s even to rent an apartment, = though I owed=20 nothing. This is a far cry from where my credit was ten years after I = started=20 as a worker; still, there's little I can do except write letters to = the=20 bureaus. I'm proud that I have wrecked my credit further due to a = poem. The job I had from Feb. to June of this year I gave to the next = person,=20 without being fired, for my near-catatonic inability to get out of the = car and go=20 into the stores where I was scheduled to start gathering retail data. = My boss=20 and supervisor were nice beyond compare when I told them I was = suffering a=20 fear of leaving my car. Agoraphobia -- fear of the marketplace -- = fear of open=20 spaces. I was earning much needed extra income from that job. The = boss was so=20 nice, in fact, he invited me to call back in August when I might feel = a=20 little better. What caused my near inability to leave my car? It = isn't poetry,=20 but it might be writing-related. Google Adsense disabled my account due to my invalid clicks but left = these=20 blank patches on my blog where the ads for how to blog used to be. I = wrote to=20 THEM, too, and told them that many of my readers are sophisticated = bloggers=20 themselves, more sophisticated than I, who will not click on ads for = how to blog.=20 I learned that Google was getting paid at least $1 for each of those, = yet I=20 was getting paid closer to a penny a day. I see that my friend, Robin = Reagler, advertises wonderful poetry books at her blog, Big Window. = That's for the=20 best. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 20:54:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: architecture/home questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My wife is both an Iowan and a fan of the mid western 19th century = farmhouse, e.g. Grant Woods and the American Gothic. So, we live in an = updated, modified mid western farmhouse she designed and we built here = in the middle of the Eastern Cascade sloping hills. I refuse to own a = pitchfork, however.=20 (badly taken photos upon request).=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Francis Raven=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: architecture/home questions Dear list, I was hoping you could do the following for the beginning = of a=20 new project on architecture and the home: (1) Please describe your home. thanks so much in advance, Francis Francis Raven 2124 Spruce St. 1R Philadelphia PA 19103 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:07:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: SubText/Seattle - Ed Roberson & April DeNonno Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with readings by Ed Roberson & April DeNonno at Richard Hugo House on Wednesday, July 5, 2006. Donations for admission will be taken at the door on the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Ed Roberson, teacher and former aquarium worker in Pittsburgh, has a new book, City Eclogue, from Atelos Press. Earlier books include Lucid Interval as Integral Music; Atmosphere Conditions (Sun & Moon); Voices Cast Out to Talk Us In (winner of the 1995 Iowa Poetry Prize); and Just In/Word of Navigational Challenges: New and Selected Poems (Talisman Books). Roberson lives in New Brunswick, New Jersey. Review of City Eclogue (Atelos, 2006) from Publishers Weekly: "Alternately detailed and abstract, calmly attentive and angry about bad news, this set of short lyrics from Roberson (Atmospheric Conditions) describes urban verticality ('buildings/ modulate the blocks// upwards/ the city a sky of floors') and zeroes in on the New York metropolitan area in particular. His depictions include the detritus of so-called urban renewal, 'From the project slabs leveled/ to the poor pride-kept and neat/ stands of/ old houses mowed down.' They include, too, the sounds of black America, from 'the street-talk birdcall of sucked teeth' to the disorienting jazz of Thelonious Monk. Lines like 'Adventure somehow decides to bypass all the already,' announces a modernist aesthetic which finds the basis for poetry anywhere. But however abstract he gets, Roberson never loses his sense of a personal voice, of a man talking (to himself or others) about the space in which we might try to live." April DeNonno teaches contemporary literature, film, and cultural studies at Cornish College. Recent poems have appeared in the literary magazines Monkey Puzzle, Facture, and Fine Madness. The future Subtext 2006 schedule is: August 2, 2006: Stephen Paul Martin (San Diego) & John Olson September 6, 2006: Torbin Ulrich/Lori Goldston Band & Bill Horist/Steve Potter October 4, 2006: Mary Burger (Bay Area) & Meg McHutchison November 1, 2006: Meredith Quartermain & Peter Quartermain (both Vancouver, BC) December 6, 2006: Lidia Yuknavitch (Portland) & TBA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:02:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wendy Kramer Subject: Comics & poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, everyone, I'm starting a blog to explore possible intersections between comics and poems. a lab or basement workshop, of sorts. It's called AestheticLogjam. There's not much up yet (apartment with an empty box in it), but i'd like to start it public from the beginning, to encourage collaboration. please visit, and send comments. i need help. i don't quite know what i'm looking for, but i'll recognize it when the poems come. Thanks, Wendy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:02:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wendy Kramer Subject: Comics & poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, everyone, I'm starting a blog to explore possible intersections between comics and poems. a lab or basement workshop, of sorts. It's called AestheticLogjam. There's not much up yet (apartment with an empty box in it), but i'd like to start it public from the beginning, to encourage collaboration. please visit, and send comments. i need help. i don't quite know what i'm looking for, but i'll recognize it when the poems come. http://aestheticlogjam.blogspot.com/ Thanks, Wendy --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 03:07:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: How the music made magic II MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline How the music made magic II f-hole guitar poem, deconstructed. http://tinyurl.com/qyzj9 -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ http://poemsfromprovidence.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:20:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Michael Pierce Subject: IS IT THE KING ? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IS IT THE KING? by Farid Matuk is hot off the effing press! IS IT THE KING? 5x7.5 48 pages saddle-stitched 2 color covers by Jared Faulkner $7.00 check the look of it: http://www.effingpress.com/books/king.html Please spread the word to your book loving peoples. Review copies are very much available to interested parties with serious intent. email Scott Pierce at effingpress@mac.com to inquire. Farid Matuk's poems have appeared most recently in Lungfull, Hot Whiskey, Bimbo Gun, and Painted Bride Quarterly. He writes occasional reports on poetry in Austin for the Poetry Project Newsletter. His essays and reviews have appeared in the Austin American-Statesman, Publisher's Weekly, and the Texas Observer. Farid is a graduate of the Michener Center for Writers. His first book, IS IT THE KING?, will chew you into little pieces. ALSO: For any lurkers that are in the central Texas area this Saturday, SKANKY POSSUM READING SERIES AT 12TH STREET BOOKS presents: Farid Matuk & Scott Pierce, Saturday July 1 at 8 PM. Poets Farid Matuk & Scott Pierce read for Skanky Possum at 12th Street Books, marking the publication of Matuk's IS IT THE KING? from Effing Press. This and other Effing books will be available for sale at the reading. Venue: 12th Street Books, purveyors of used, rare and out of print books, is located at 827 West 12th Street, 2.5 blocks east of 12th & Lamar, between Shoal Creek and West. https://www.12thstreetbooks.com/ Take Note! Attend the reading to find out about a celebration and after-party with music and libations at Effing HQ 1 block from the bookstore. http://www.effingpress.com http://www.skankypossum.com http://osnapper.typepad.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:12:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Comics & poetry In-Reply-To: <20060630050245.93763.qmail@web50210.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE This is a really interesting idea. There are lots of textual possibilities = in comics. The first thing that springs to my mind is the text/lettering ef= fects Dave Sim was using in Cerebus really starting with the Church & State= story arcs. On Thu, 29 Jun 2006, Wendy Kramer wrote: > Hello, everyone, > > I'm starting a blog to explore possible intersections between comics and= poems. a lab or basement workshop, of sorts. > > It's called AestheticLogjam. There's not much up yet (apartment with an = empty box in it), but i'd like to start it public from the beginning, to en= courage collaboration. > > please visit, and send comments. i need help. i don't quite know what i'= m looking for, but i'll recognize it when the poems come. > > http://aestheticlogjam.blogspot.com/ > > Thanks, > > Wendy > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ co= untries) for 2=A2/min or less. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:17:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Comics & poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline And of course Dave Morice. On 6/30/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > This is a really interesting idea. There are lots of textual possibilitie= s in comics. The first thing that springs to my mind is the text/lettering = effects Dave Sim was using in Cerebus really starting with the Church & Sta= te story arcs. > > > On Thu, 29 Jun 2006, Wendy Kramer wrote: > > > Hello, everyone, > > > > I'm starting a blog to explore possible intersections between comics a= nd poems. a lab or basement workshop, of sorts. > > > > It's called AestheticLogjam. There's not much up yet (apartment with a= n empty box in it), but i'd like to start it public from the beginning, to = encourage collaboration. > > > > please visit, and send comments. i need help. i don't quite know what = i'm looking for, but i'll recognize it when the poems come. > > > > http://aestheticlogjam.blogspot.com/ > > > > Thanks, > > > > Wendy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ = countries) for 2=A2/min or less. > > > --=20 http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:12:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kenneth R James Subject: Re: comics & poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also Herriman's "Krazy Kat". ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:41:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Garden Party with Olive Juice Music and Boog City Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward ---------------- Garden Party with Olive Juice Music and Boog City Sat. July 8, 2:00 p.m., free a summer series, in the Suffolk Street Community Garden Suffolk St., bet. Houston & Stanton sts. NYC readings from=20 Joanna Fuhrman and Tanya Larkin music from=20 Lisa Lilund and Major Matt Mason USA Curated and with introductions by Boog City editor and publisher David Kirschenbaum and Olive Juice Music head Matt Roth --------- **Boog City is a New York City-based small press now in its 15th year and East Village community newspaper of the same name. It has also published 35 volumes of poetry and various magazines, featuring work by Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti among others, and theme issues on baseball, women=B9s writing, and Louisville, KY. It hosts and curates two regular performance series--d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press, where each month a non-NYC small press and its writers and a musical act of their choosing is hosted at Chelsea's ACA Galleries; and Classic Albums Live, where 5-13 local musical acts perform a classic album live at venues including The Bowery Poetry Club, CBGB's, and The Knitting Factory. Past albums have included Elvis Costello, My Aim is True; Nirvana, Nevermind; an= d Liz Phair, Exile in Guyville. **Olive Juice Music is a D.I.Y. label, studio, and mail-order distributor based in New York City and interested in helping people who are in the developmental stages of trying to do something with their art. Olive Juice Music is not a traditional record label. The artists associated with Olive Juice take an active part in how their music is produced, financed, and marketed. They in turn receive more of the profits gained from the sales of their records directly, which is how it should be. The strength of Olive Juice relies upon the active participation of its members to share resource= s and help promote a communal spirit among everyone involved as well as claiming responsibility for taking their art to wherever they would like it to go. **Joanna Fuhrman is the author of three collections of poetry published by Hanging Loose Press, Freud in Brooklyn (2000), Ugh Ugh Ocean (2003), and Moraine (2006). Her last book was described in Publishers Weekly as an "exciting mishmash of insights, associations, charms, jokes and biting social commentary, well positioned somewhere in the nifty triangle formed b= y Frank O'Hara, Ted Berrigan and the Shins." Her poems written with others ar= e forthcoming in Saints of Hysteria: Fifty Years of Collaborative Poetry (Sof= t Skull Press). She teaches poetry in the public schools. **Tanya Larkin is poet and fiction writer living in Somerville, Mass. She teaches English at the New England Institute of Art. She is a 2004 recipien= t of a Massachusetts Cultural Council Grant. Her most recent poems have appeared in The Hat, Xantippe, and The Zoland Press Poetry Anthology. **Lisa Li-Lund hails from Paris, France and writes songs on piano and guitar. Her record "Lisa Li-Lund Ran away" was just released on Smoking Gun Records (UK).=20 **Major Matt Mason USA has been making music since the late =B980s. In his father's basement in Shawnee, Kansas (a suburb of Kansas City) Matt would amuse his dog Friskie by lip-synching to Kiss records and hammering out ditties about the threat of nuclear war and peer pressure on a $30 Harmony guitar. While attending the University of Kansas, Matt got his first taste of a thriving underground music scene playing guitar for local punk bands with names like Magic Nose and Dracomagnet that drew from influences including the Butthole Surfers and Jesus Lizard. In the early =B990s, Matt localized a five-year long distance relationship an= d moved to New York City where he found a home in the now infamous East Village Antifolk Community. The weekly Antihoots at the Sidewalk Cafe provided Matt with a chance to vent about the high cost of living in New York and the rapid deterioration of the relationship he just moved across the country for. After a brief stint as a record store clerk, he landed a job as an apprentice at a soho based commercial sound facility. For the nex= t five years he would spend his days in a state-of-the-art digital audio facility servicing high profile advertising clients, while his nights were spent plucking out edgy lo-fi acoustic love songs into a boombox in a mouse= - infested lower east side apartment. Flash forward 5 years. Major Matt has evolved from the boombox to a catalog of 4 full-length albums filled with influences that range from Bob Dylan to Sonic Youth. He has established Olive Juice Music--a fully functional recording studio/independent record label/online distribution center that h= e operates out of his NYC apartment with bandmate/significant other Nan Turne= r and cat Gummo (who takes care of the mice). Matt is also a member of the bands Schwervon! and Kansas State Flower. The DIY spirit is a big part of Matt's art and lifestyle as he continues to carve out a niche for truly modern American Folk music. =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B Directions: F to Second Ave. =20 http://olivejuicemusic.com/ http://www.unpleasanteventschedule.com/JoannaFuhrman.htm http://www.epoetry.org/issues/issue7/text/cnotes/tl.htm http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=3Duser.viewprofile&friendid=3D3= 0 256093 http://olivejuicemusic.com/majormattmasonusa.html Next event in series, Sat. Aug. 12 with readings from Laura Elrick and Rodrigo Toscano and music TBA =8B=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:49:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Dickey Subject: Re: comics & poetry In-Reply-To: <1151691152.44a56990b1f2c@mail4.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tim Truman's work with Grateful Dead (Robert Hunter) lyrics comes to mind. www.ttruman.com Of course you can't overlook William Blake, Frank O'Hara, Kenneth Patchen. Not that I consider their work comic, but we can kick off our shoes in that room. Kenneth R James wrote: Also Herriman's "Krazy Kat". --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:53:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Re: comics & poetry In-Reply-To: <1151691152.44a56990b1f2c@mail4.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Best example, yet. The reprints that Fantagraphics are doing are top notch. Wonderful stuff. For contemporary work... Souther Salazar does some fine things...the Fort Thunder crowd...if you can get your hands on a huge anthology called Comix 2000, there's some good work in there, too... Kenneth R James wrote: > Also Herriman's "Krazy Kat". > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:04:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: comics & poetry In-Reply-To: <20060630184947.94676.qmail@web30405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" don marquis, archie and mehitabel... At 11:49 AM -0700 6/30/06, Eric Dickey wrote: >Tim Truman's work with Grateful Dead (Robert Hunter) lyrics comes to mind. > > www.ttruman.com > > Of course you can't overlook William Blake, Frank O'Hara, Kenneth >Patchen. Not that I consider their work comic, but we can kick off >our shoes in that room. > >Kenneth R James wrote: > Also Herriman's "Krazy Kat". > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:40:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: comics & poetry In-Reply-To: <44A57322.1080204@durationpress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bpNichol Comics http://204.101.246.221/site1/talonbooks/index.cfm? event=titleDetails&ISBN=088922448X On Jun 30, 2006, at 1:53 PM, Jerrold Shiroma wrote: > Best example, yet. The reprints that Fantagraphics are doing are > top notch. Wonderful stuff. > > For contemporary work... > > Souther Salazar does some fine things...the Fort Thunder crowd...if > you can get your hands on a huge anthology called Comix 2000, > there's some good work in there, too... > > Kenneth R James wrote: >> Also Herriman's "Krazy Kat". >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:49:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: comics & poetry In-Reply-To: <32F5FB91-DE7E-4076-AF8E-85DD09823110@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.turbulence.org/Works/dynamo is a comics/poetry? project by Kate Armstrong and Michael Tippett called Graphik Dynamo. Images are somewhat randomly retrieved from a search engine and Kate's texts are bubbled etc into the frames. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 18:14:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: 2006 Midwest School for Women Workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The 2006 Midwest School for Women Workers is being held at the University of Illinois at Chicago on July 16-21. Online registration is now available at http://www.conferences.uiuc.edu/midwestschool. For almost 30 years, Union Women’s Summer Schools across the United States have brought together women from all sectors of the labor movement to develop skills as activist union members and leaders, and build sisterhood across unions and regions. In a time when many local, regional and international unions have fewer resources to devote to labor education and leadership development, the week-long, residential Women’s Summer Schools fill the gap for hundreds of union women each summer. Topics for this year’s school include the international labor movement, strategic contract campaigns, labor history and human rights, Jane in Chicago, political accountability, women in the trades, leadership, arbitration, and many more. For a complete list of this year’s courses and descriptions, please visit the conference Web site. In addition to courses and workshops, we are also offering several educational and entertaining activities that participants may choose to take part in. Chicago has a very rich and turbulent labor history, and we would like to offer you the chance to explore some of the city’s most famous landmarks by foot, by bicycle, and by motor coach. Other optional activities include a trip to the renowned House of Blues and an architectural tour of the city aboard a river boat. Many of these activities are free, although some may require a small additional fee. The registration fee is $750, which includes lodging for five nights, all meals, breaks, and conference materials. A commuter rate of $425 is also available. This option includes all meals and materials, but no lodging. Some scholarships are available through the Regina V. Polk Foundation. Registration for the Midwest School is limited, so please register today and reserve your spot! For more information and registration: Phone 217-333-2880, Toll free 877-455-2687 Email nstewart@ad.uiuc.edu __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 19:05:40 -0700 Reply-To: aklobuca@capcollege.bc.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Klobucar Organization: Capilano College Subject: TCR: Call for submissions In-Reply-To: <20060627212857.64723.qmail@web30410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TCR (The Capilano Review) has extended its deadline for submissions for a special issue on digital writing and poetics. The issue already contains excellent works in criticism, but is still looking for more creative submissions and review work. The issue is meant to compliment a new cohort programme on technology and language currently being designed and constructed for first and second year postsecondary study, but also should serve as an introduction to writers, poets and artists working specifically with digital technology as both a tool and formative "paradigm" for their art. The issue will feature a mix of critical essays, creative works, both visual and language based, and reviews. The issue will be published in electronic format as well as print, making it possible to receive and publish screen compositions. If the pieces are too large or complicated for email attachment, please snail mail a disk copy to: Dr. Andrew Klobucar English Coordinator Dept. of English Capilano College 604.986.1911 (2426) 2055 Purcell Way North Vancouver, BC V7J 3H5 Deadline for Receipt of Work: 10 August 2006 Questions and requests for more information can be sent via this email address. Sincerely, Andrew